

MIT urban planner rethinks parking lots - epenn
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/parking-lot-redesign-0313.html

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jerrya
With self-driving cars, a lot of parking lot hassles should (might?) go away.

A self-driving car can drop you off at the door, and then go park itself
wherever the best location for cars is in the area, and probably have no
problem reserving/finding a space mediated by various parking lot controllers,
and finally, since the car is both unloaded and computer controlled, be able
to park in a much smaller location.

The parking location doesn't have to be close and it doesn't even have to be a
permanent parking location.

Hell, a self-driving car could in fact go back home if home was reasonably
close enough.

Or head over to the airport and make you a few bucks as a taxi.

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LockeWatts
How would you get your car back if it went and parked itself?

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wtvanhest
smart phone.

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wtvanhest
I wish I had wrote: "There will be an app for that". I'm 99% sure someone from
HN will program it.

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count
'You must use an Android phone to connect to the GoogleSmartCar'

I can't wait for vendor lock in to control what car and what phone I can buy
in tandem!

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sp332
Clearly my car needs a RESTful web services front-end!

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JamesLeonis
You will have to root your car to do that.

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noonespecial
Its a joke but I'm trying to root my Fiat500 right now in order to rid myself
of the awful microsoft "Blue&Me" and get it to do something useful.

My car has usb ports. I should have root.

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Tsagadai
I think the existence of parking lots is a symptom of bad urban planning. I
haven't owned a car for 3 years because I choose where I live carefully. I
don't regret not owning a car for a second. Parking is ridiculously expensive
(the last time I paid for parking I paid 26USD for 4 hours).

What would be better than better parking would be cities redesigned for
pedestrian traffic and cheap, efficient public transport.

~~~
Domenic_S
Q: How do you know someone doesn't own a car?

A: Don't worry, he'll tell you.

~~~
rayiner
I own a car and love driving. I grew up in Northern Virginia, then I lived in
Atlanta for 8 years. In both places, having a car is pretty much a necessity.
After living in Chicago for a few years, however, I'm convinced I'll never
again live somewhere that I need a car to go about my day. Pretty much
everything that's wrong with the country, from crime to environmental
destruction to oil dependence is partially the result of the car.

~~~
Tsagadai
I grew up in rural Australia. Owning a car was required if you wanted to hold
down a job or have a social life. I've lived in cities as close as possible to
where I work for the last few years and I'd never look back (from living close
to work, shops, nightlife). Walking is now where I do a lot of my thinking and
where most of my good ideas come from. I've had good ideas while driving but
it was usually just aggravating.

It isn't possible for everyone but the less time you spend in moving metal
boxes each day the better your life will be.

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Anechoic
Traffic engineers and planners have been wrestling with this problem for
decades, but there are no easy solutions. Take for example:

 _For one thing, planners might simply plant trees throughout parking lots_

I've seen trees planted and traffic islands erected to break up the lot, but
then a drunk driver takes out the tree, or a snow plow takes out the island
and it's just cheaper to pave over the hole rather than planting another tree.

Not to sound like the tone-deaf transit advocate that I am, but "rethink
parking lots" really means "rethinking the automobile" (either through
expanded transit, or something like self-driving cars that can drop you off
and then leave, although that's a solution that's 20-years away minimum).

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kleiba
Trees on parking lots are nothing new. They're loved by drivers all over the
world, especially when they're in bloom and you've parked under one for half a
day ;-)

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josephcooney
In Australia, where temperatures inside a car that is parked in direct
sunlight in summer can reach 70 degrees celsius, and are enough to kill pets
and children left in the car, melt plastic etc, trees actually ARE fairly
well-regarded by drivers.

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jamn
I have seen a great parking lot lately:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3NZ6J8Fg6c>

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icebraining
My first thought were the Japanese parking towers:
<http://youtu.be/QFHVukDUI2U>

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brudgers
One feature of parking capacity often ignored is perceived convenience.

For a business such as a CVS or Walgreens drug store, more than the minimum
parking will be provided to avoid giving the appearance of a full parking lot
to passing motorists because a parking lot which appears to be near capacity
causes people to anticipate long lines at the checkout and thus reconsider
stopping to shop.

The malls do the same thing to a certain extent (remote satellite lots and
transport at peak times would probably be significantly cheaper than utilizing
prime real-estate for parking).

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p_monk
Not mentioned in the article, but a now common feature of multi-level parking
lots in LA tell drivers how many parking spots are open on every floor. I'd
like to see the concept extended to indicate where on each floor the open
spots are available. This can be done with switching on a colorful light above
open spaces or by having an open spot counter in the entrance of each lane.

~~~
r00fus
When I was in Grenoble, France (back in 1999!!), they had a system where on
the Autoroute, and in key locations within the city, you would see signs that
showed the available parking spots in the government-run garages.

This had two benefits: 1) you could tell if you were going to get a spot
in/near centre-ville or wherever you were going. 2) you could tell if it was
likely you would find _any_ spots - if all the garages nearby were at/near
capacity, you probably wouldn't find parking on the street either - be
prepared to park further away and walk.

This was possible because of government control of parking and signs - the
city itself (not to mention the residents) benefited from lowered gas usage,
less congestion and less frustration. Thus it is economics/government as much
as technology.

~~~
saryant
When I lived in Strasbourg I noticed the same thing. I lived just outside the
Grand Île on a major road and was very surprised to see those when I got
there.

Coming from Houston I wasn't used to something like parking being so well
organized. ;)

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mattmcknight
In a slight counterpoint to there being "too much parking", every low rise (3
story) apartment and condo complex around me in the suburbs is built with too
few spots, meaning they spill far out into adjoining neighborhoods. Then,
thinking about it a little deeper, we do need at least 3x as many spots as
cars (one at home at night, one at work during the day, one to get groceries
or go out to dinner in the evening....)

Parking above and below buildings is better, but until the cost of land rises
high enough, it doesn't happen. When the cost does right high enough, it does
happen...

There is certainly room for improvement, and collocating housing, office, and
retail so the same space can be used across more of the 24 hr day makes sense,
but also increases of coming home or to work and not finding anywhere to park-
something that has happened to me several times...

~~~
mc32
>...Then, thinking about it a little deeper, we do need at least 3x as many
spots as cars (one at home at night, one at work during the day, one to get
groceries or go out to dinner in the evening....)

But you're not parked at those other places 24hrs/day. So really, it doesn't
need to be 3x. It's greater than 1x (closer to 2x) but should not be near 3x.
People don't all decide at a given time "Let's all go to the mall" or "Let's
all go to the grocery store." A small percentage of people at any given time
decide to do one of these things. On a given day, if I stay home from work, I
will see cars streetside. So even home plus work does not equal 2x.

BTW, in the article I don't know if they meant "parking stalls in lots" or
"parking spaces". The latter to me, would include more inventory.

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yarone
While re-imagining parking lots is certainly a worthwhile exercise, I am
reminded by a recent and very intriguing HN comment (sorry couldn't find it)
that compared our avg utilization of automobiles (low) to the avg utilization
of airplanes (high) and suggested that we must re-imagine how we use cars.

Specifically, why do we buy cars only to have them sit around unused most of
the time (in front of our house, in a parking lot, etc)?

~~~
noonespecial
We buy cars for the same reason rich people buy planes and don't use them. You
don't pay to have the car, you pay to have the car on constant standby, ready
for your use the moment you want it.

If you solve the standby problem with ubiquitously, instantly available zip
cars without turning it into the fiasco that is trying to broad a commercial
flight, or find a cab in the city, you win.

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josephcooney
The statement "We all use parking lots, and we all kind of hate them," and the
supposed "centrality of parking lots in our lives" struck me as odd. Like a
lot of people I don't drive to work. I could go for weeks without parking in a
parking lot. Their centrality is highly suspect.

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twelvechairs
Poor writing. The subject is introduced as a professor or landscape
architecture and urban design but then referred to many times (inc. in the
title) as an urban planner. That's like calling a graphic designer a software
engineer.

~~~
brudgers
Not really. Though urban planners can be engaged in writing recommendations
regarding conditional use applications for the city council, they can also be
engaged in the same sorts of creative tasks as landscape architects or people
who call themselves urban designers (my mentor in grad school, the late David
Crane, always referred to himself as an architect and planner - his firm
designed Sadat City and he cut his teeth with Ed Logue following a stint as a
research assistant on _Image of the City_ ).

Anyway, his PHD is in Environmental Planning & Urban Design.

<http://web.mit.edu/ebj/www/cv.html>

~~~
twelvechairs
Ok. Its fine to me if he is all of these things (more people should be), but
it is still poor journalism to conflate them. If it causes uncertainty for
someone like me (who is in the field and knows the relationship between these
titles), imagine how confusing it can be for those outside the field to
understand what kind of background this guy might have.

~~~
brudgers
In the US, only one, Landscape Architect, is a title reflecting specific
credentials; and not all US jurisdictions recognize landscape architecture as
a learned profession.

Conversly, anyone can put their self forth as an urban designer (or planner).
Again, however, that is not the case here.

~~~
twelvechairs
This much is true. Anyone can put themselves forth as a graphic designer or
software engineer too however, and you don't see them conflating the two...

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apollo5
I think building parks on top of parking lots would be a good idea -
[http://www.aaronloringdavis.com/2008/10/parking-garage-
green...](http://www.aaronloringdavis.com/2008/10/parking-garage-green-space/)

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kevinpet
I was hoping this would address the core issue whether it's worthwhile to
build a good parking lot as opposed to a parking lot being a good thing to do
with urban land until a better opportunity arises.

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ganley
Better, deeper article on the subject:
<http://www.lamag.com/features/Story.aspx?ID=1568281>

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joshu
I wonder how optimal parking lot design itself is. I have wanted to try to
build a solver for a while.

