
Australia’s hottest day on record - perfunctory
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-50817963
======
genidoi
Aussie here. Our Prime Minister just hopped over to Hawaii[0] whilst
bushfires[1] just an hour's drive away from Sydney[2] are toxifying the air to
the point of being declared a public health emergency[3]... barely two weeks
into bushfire season, with the most intense fires around late Jan/early Feb.

To top it all off, the Government is refusing to grant the firefighters
additional resources to actually contain the fires[5].

[0] [https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/prime-minister-scott-
mo...](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/prime-minister-scott-morrison-
rejects-calls-for-more-assistance-to-firefighters)

[1]
[https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au/](https://myfirewatch.landgate.wa.gov.au/)

[2]
[https://twitter.com/healthy_climate/status/12042163739597250...](https://twitter.com/healthy_climate/status/1204216373959725056)

[3] [https://www.9news.com.au/world/nsw-news-sydney-bushfire-
smok...](https://www.9news.com.au/world/nsw-news-sydney-bushfire-smoke-a-
public-health-emergency/a5f9d396-43da-4789-b1e5-a411f2154d52)

[4] [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-
news/2019/dec/10/sydne...](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-
news/2019/dec/10/sydneys-air-11-times-worse-than-hazardous-levels-as-
australias-bushfires-rage)

[5] [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/australia-
bushfires-c...](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/australia-bushfires-
combine-form-mega-fire-north-sydney-191206074513633.html)

~~~
pimmen
How is the government response (or lack off) affecting the debate around
climate change in Australia? If I understand correctly, the current Australian
government does not believe in human caused climate change but still enjoys
domestic support from voters. Is that changing?

We had a similar, less serious event in Sweden last year during an
extraordinary summer with a lot of forest fires, during an election year. The
forest fires did not seem to change voters' mind much on the issue,
unfortunately. Then again, we allocated a lot more resources than usual to
fight the fires, even asking other countries for help.

~~~
shakna
> How is the government response (or lack off) affecting the debate around
> climate change in Australia?

Denial of resources thanks to denial of debate in the parliament.

> If I understand correctly, the current Australian government does not
> believe in human caused climate change but still enjoys domestic support
> from voters. Is that changing?

Not really. The governments strategy is currently to isolate and intimidate
the concerned (scare campaigns, proposal of laws to outlaw "environmental
protest terrorism"), whilst repeatedly telling the rest of the country: "we're
fine", "we're doing our bit", "the problem doesn't exist" and "we can't
survive without coal".

~~~
NamTaf
To expand on the parent's latter, said PM told kids, during the school climate
strike, to stay in school and stop worrying about climate change. This is
among many other statements over the course of his tenure:

[https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-warns-
again...](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-warns-against-
needless-anxiety-after-thunberg-climate-speech-20190925-p52uma.html)

[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/26/scott-
mo...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/26/scott-morrison-
tells-students-striking-over-climate-change-to-be-less-activist)

------
dluan
Here in Hawaii we've obliterated temperature records. July, August, September,
and November were the hottest respective months ever recorded. For 20 straight
consecutive days from Aug to September we set new records for hottest
temperatures in a really brutal heat wave. August 2019 was the warmest global
ocean temperature on record.

It made me realize that while global average temperature is scheduled to
increase ~2 degrees, that is just the average. Some places on Earth won't see
that much change because of regional climate systems, but other places in the
changing vortex will have way more than just 2 degrees. The general consensus
here is that 95 degree Honolulu is the new normal.

~~~
KnightOfWords
On the other side of the world, we had record temperatures across Europe as
well this year. Fewer deaths than the 2003 heatwave though as people were
generally better informed of the risks.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave)

These events are only going to become more frequent.

~~~
chewz
> we had record temperatures across Europe

For the record - only in Western Europe - due to changes in circulation
patterns. Central and Eastern Europe had rather cool summer and records from
beggining of XX century still stand.

------
sjwright
And tomorrow it’s forecasted to be 42°C in my inner Sydney coastal suburb.
This is insane.

~~~
larnmar
That’s hot but normal for Sydney.

~~~
kdtsh
A few +40C days in high summer (late Jan/early Feb) are not that unusual, but
days of consistent +40C days in mid-December should be sending alarm bells
ringing. This is the new `normal', but wasn't like this before a few years
ago.

~~~
sundvor
Yeah, just hit 46c at our place north of Melbourne CBD... Crazy times.

------
Thorentis
Will easily be broken in a couple days. Some places forecast for 46C by the
end of the week.

~~~
mamp
We had a day or two of 48 C in Adelaide earlier in the year which I’ve never
experienced before. Walking around in 43 C heat today didn’t feel as bad in
comparison!

Still 39 C at 7:30 pm, getting up to 45C on Friday. It’s going to be a bad
summer.

------
RossBencina
Australia is a big place. 40-42C is not uncommon for a summer heatwave day in
one city, but as an average across the whole continent it's unusual.

FWIW It hit 39.7 here in Melbourne:
[http://www.baywx.com.au/melbtemp2.html](http://www.baywx.com.au/melbtemp2.html)

~~~
buzzkillington
That's a funny way to spell "Hasn't happened in the last 150 years people have
kept records".

------
apexalpha
Wow, I just realized that their summer is only starting now, even with all the
fires they already have.

~~~
czechdeveloper
I've read that current fires consumed about 8x the area that is average in
this time of year.

Crazy

~~~
apexalpha
This interactive map from the Guardian really drove it home for me:
[https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-
inter...](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-
interactive/2019/dec/07/how-big-are-the-fires-burning-on-the-east-coast-of-
australia-interactive-map)

~~~
femto
The official interactive map for the NSW Rural Fire Service is also an eye
opener, as it shows the actual areas burnt in roughly real-time.

[https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/fires-near-
me](https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/fires-near-me)

In the past month it started out as isolated black patches, which have now
merged into fewer but bigger black patches. Given the heat predicted over the
next few days and lack of predicted rain until January, there is every chance
that more of the fires will merge. The NSW fires are spread over a distance of
1000km, with the larger individual fires being about 200km in length. The map
shows only NSW's fires, so multiply that view by about 6 to account for the
rest of the mainland.

------
tus88
Expect that to be broken again within about 3-4 days.

------
lrem
Is this making any dent in the government's strategy of investing everything
they can into fossil fuels?

~~~
6nf
Australians are allergic to nuclear power but solar is ok I think

~~~
rstuart4133
I don't know if Australian's are genuinely allergic to nuclear power. Some
people make a lot of noise about it, but some people make a lot of noise about
wind too.

And it's unlikely we will ever find out, because it's so expensive compared to
the alternatives. If nuclear had of delivered on its promise of "too cheap to
meter", my bet is the things would be all over the planet like a rash how -
rather like wind turbines are today, squawking nimby's be damned.

------
jve
If anyone wonders how that looks like on a map...
[https://www.windy.com/-25.324/133.594?temp,-25.681,133.264,5...](https://www.windy.com/-25.324/133.594?temp,-25.681,133.264,5,m:cWWajRO)

(Zoom out a bit)

------
zantana
Any hotter and Midnight Oil is going to have update their lyrics:
[https://genius.com/Midnight-oil-beds-are-burning-
lyrics](https://genius.com/Midnight-oil-beds-are-burning-lyrics)

------
jevgeni
Obviously, this is a conspiracy by big solar to inflate their stock prices and
to defraud innocent petrochemical execs from their hard earned bonuses!!! Wake
up sheeple! /s

~~~
ASalazarMX
Where some people see a disaster, we at SCUM Corp see an opportunity. All that
burned forest is brand new real state!

------
jokoon
Don't forget a heatwave that last 1 day or 2 is mostly ok.

Once it lasts 4 or 5 or more, heat exhaustion kicks in, because one's body
cannot rest from the stress caused by heat.

------
Thorentis
As predicted: [https://www.9news.com.au/national/sydney-smoke-city-
continue...](https://www.9news.com.au/national/sydney-smoke-city-continues-to-
suffer-through-toxic-haze-as-heatwave-hits-
record/570e4528-b9b2-4b88-8fe1-4bae6c21ce12?ocid=Social-9News&fbclid=IwAR1JWpSW87Sy86cPBf7Pz7FLxn_1_lS658tvDHj4EHVFe3RHAE4ikaBAqfc)

------
sudeepj
This is similar to what is there in India during summer. Isn't this more
problemematic in Australia because of ozone layer depletion [1]?

[1] [https://www.environment.gov.au/protection/ozone/ozone-
scienc...](https://www.environment.gov.au/protection/ozone/ozone-
science/ozone-layer#More_about_ozone_layer_depletion)

~~~
tkyjonathan
I was under the impression that parts of the ozone have been repairing..

~~~
NeedMoreTea
They are, but CFCs are so potent and long lasting that even with the
restoration it's going to be about another 50 years before it's "fixed". IIRC
it took a couple of decades or more after the global CFC ban for it to even
stop getting worse...

------
tus88
Oh and we're running out of water too. Yippee!

------
reallydontask
Given the heat, solar thermal plants would be a better bet than solar panels,
specially given the interior is very sparsely populated and pretty hot.

Unless thermal solar plants are affected negatively by the heat too?

~~~
k_
afair they already produce more electricity than needed and run their plants
something like every other day (read here on HN, but don't have the link atm)
because they can't store the excess.

~~~
jamil7
The other issue is that too much solar energy in the grid is intefering with
existing coal plants due to the way energy pricing and distribution works.
It's a bit of a mess but raw production isn't the biggest issue right now.

------
adrianN
Half the continent on fire and record temperatures. I wonder how many people
already died from this. Are there any numbers available? It must be really
hard to breathe, especially for elderly people.

------
rv-de
This is already a classic:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIy0t5P0CUQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIy0t5P0CUQ)

Afterwards join the folks on /r/collapse.

------
dav43
Guess it’s a good time for a holiday

------
edhelas
Repeat after me: "Global warming is a myth and it's not caused by human
activity". If we all repeat that together, it will be true.

------
pimmen
And in Nordic countries I’ve honestly heard people say that the fact that it’s
pretty cold right now is evidence against global warming. That whole ”global”
part really trips people up.

Does anyone know how to explain this nice and clear to people who aren’t that
well versed in variances and means? I really struggle.

~~~
kresten
It’s “climate change”, not just global warming.

~~~
ben_w
Although this is 100% true, saying that does come across as shifting the
goalposts.

Part of the problem is that a decade before I was born, enough newspapers
breathlessly reported “scientists” “predicting” “a new ice age”. Despite the
fact those headlines misrepresented the scientific consensus of the time so
badly that it’s appropriate for me to put all those scare quotes in that
sentence, the meme remains potent.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
That seems to have been very specifically just in the US. The rest of the
world did not breathlessly report a coming ice age. UK and Europe barely
noticed. Here in the UK I can remember just two pieces about it, in the end of
the news "silly stuff and wacky ideas" slot. Don't believe Horizon, Equinox or
any of the others ever covered it, even though there was one or two episodes
every series for outlier and controversial ideas, and I watched them
religiously back then.

I had a remaindered paperback I bought around 1980 about the coming dawn of a
new ice age. Firmly in the realm of wacky conspiracy theory next to Chariot of
the Gods, even in the late 70s.

~~~
ben_w
That’s ironic, given that I’m from the UK and it was my British teachers in my
secondary school who first made me aware of the meme.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Interesting, I wonder what sources they were relying on.

I recall it as something of a silly minority idea of the time, that had its
moment. And that it was just a moment -- far less of a moment than Chariot of
the Gods that _did_ get TV programmes and discussion off the back of its
idiocy. I don't ever remember seeing it in the papers we got at home. Maybe it
got exposure via the Daily Mail or similar lover of fake and dodgy news or
outrage - never read those.

It was only much, much later I heard it was taken far more seriously in the
US, with pieces in media that should perhaps have known better, or checked
sources...

