
Vim for developers that use other software, too - macco
http://cream.sourceforge.net/home.html
======
CJefferson
A random sidenote (because I can't be bothered to write a blog post about it).

I wonder if I am the only person who feels 'vim shame' (and the closely
related 'emacs shame').

'vim shame' - the feeling that you would be a better, more productive coder if
only you could master this mysterious editor, but every time you try (about
once every couple of years), somewhere between two days and two weeks you find
you have drifted back to textmate / sublime editor / eclipse.

~~~
z92
I feel 'vim shame' too. But in some opposite way. I am ashamed of people
discovering I use vim as primary editor and not some GUI-IDE. Therefore I
mostly pretend like I am making quick fixes using vim when someone is hanging
around.

~~~
CJefferson
Interesting, must be a culture thing. Here in academia (or to be exact, here
in the computing department I am in), most people consider anything other than
vim/emacs a 'toy' editor.

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mmahemoff
What I really want, and would pay for, is a TextMate or IDE-like interface
wrapped around Vim. The current plugins - e.g. NERDTree - are appreciated, but
they lack the features, ease-of-use, and consistency of a purpose-built IDE.

I've used various Vim emulators inside IDEs and they're just not the same as
the real thing. If you know Vim well, you end up "typing on eggshells", where
every keystroke might cause some unexpected chaos. So it needs to be the real
thing.

~~~
sheff
If you use Textmate and basically miss the project drawer in Vim, there is a
version of MacVim which has that integrated ( see
<https://github.com/alloy/macvim/wiki/Screenshots> ) .

There is also Vico ( <http://www.vicoapp.com/> ) which is a new Mac text
editor with vi bindings, and well worth taking a look at.

~~~
shadowfiend
+1 for Vico. It's basically all I use at this point. It's still getting
started, but I'm fully productive in it at this point, and have already
written a couple of plugins for it.

Caveat emptor: it works with TM bundles, but cannot do vim plugins.

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CJefferson
This kind of thing really appeals to me, I'm very tempted to give it a try.

I have tried emacs and vim a few times, but the problem is that I don't want
to use them for everything, and I have trouble getting my head around two
totally different ways of working. I recently did a check of the programs I
use in the average week. The current list is (in no particular order)

    
    
        * XCode, for Objective-C / iOS development
        * Eclipse, for C++ / Android
        * Apple Mail
        * Chrome
        * TeXShop, for Latex editing
        * Sublime text, for other bits of C/C++
        * Vienna, for RSS reading
        * Evernote, for document ordering
        * Wunderlist, for todo lists
    

And what is great is that all these apps share 90% of my frequently used key-
presses. In particular, I'm never at a loss as to what quit/find/open/save
are. Each of these tools I have found the best at what they do.

~~~
mziulu
You might have something to gain by switching to Emacs. AFAIK of the 9
elements of your list at least 6 can be easily done inside emacs. I leave out
web browsing (it can be done but yeah, leaves a lot to be desired imho),
Android development (ADT is really really good) and maybe "document ordering",
which, depending on what it exactly is, might be done with org-mode.

~~~
scarmig
One of the really cool thing about emacs is that you can do so much in it.
Everything from listening to music to browsing the web.

Unfortunately it lacks a decent text editor.

~~~
sea6ear
I've just been playing around with Evil-mode, an new Vim emulation mode (I've
previously tried viper and vimpulse) and am finding it fairly enjoyable. I
haven't pushed it really hard yet, and to be fair I could still see switching
back to Vim for some things (like navigating code with ctags for example). But
for things where I want to be in Emacs but hey it would be cool for this
buffer to have vi key bindings, I think I like it quite well. (Enough so that
I'm daydreaming about trying to contribute code to it once I understand it
better).

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benawabe896
I've been a longtime Eclipse / Vim (when I'm ssh'ing) user. However, my Vim
usage was really press i and then use arrow keys all over the place. I was
even that guy that pressed i, arrowed to the right to the end of the part that
I wanted to delete, and then pressed the delete key on my shortened Mac
keyboard (that really behaves like a backspace) roughly doubling the
keystrokes every time. When I switched jobs a month or so ago, I made it my
goal to learn to use Vim the right way. All I can say is that it took me a
much shorter time than expected, and the gains are greater than I could have
anticipated.

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lucian1900
I don't find cream that useful. There's little interesting about vim other
than the input method.

Right now I'm using Emacs (for the extensibility) with Evil mode (for vim key
bindings). I've used vi(m) modes in other editors as well, and some are really
good. That's the direction I find more interesting.

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ulisesrmzroche
If you're just picking up Vim and using Chrome, I suggest installing Vimium to
get some extra practice. Ignore recent blog posts, for the most part, that
tell you to start from a vanilla config. Training wheels help.

On another note, what's the vim-org mode clones looking like lately?

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kenneth_reitz
CREAM is fantastic. I used it for years, before I switched to OSX. I really
wish they'd port it over, for nostalgia's sake.

