

The reverse job applicant - middlegeek
http://www.reversejobapplication.com/
Clarification: This is not me, I stumbled upon this site.
======
run4yourlives
_If you really care which programming languages I already know or which
applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my
ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of
thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake._

I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have
any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world view, so brace yourself:

You are not fucking special in any way shape or form. Even if you graduated
with the best marks in MIT and have been programming since the womb, guess
what? So have people every single graduating year for the past 20 fricken
years.

The only constant in your never ending job search is - wait for it - YOU. Get
over yourself. You are not entitled to anything. You are the lowest of the
low, and have proved nothing to anyone that matters.

Start the journey at the beginning. And Yes, you are at the beginning. Your
accomplishments so far are shared by every single person in the work force. Be
humble and gracious until you actually distinguish yourself.

~~~
randomtask
You know nothing of his situation and yet are willing to cast aspersions on
his character. Before you go tarring a whole generation with the "entitled"
label perhaps a little context from the generation that lacks humility might
be in order.

Friends of mine are in the same position as this guy. They recently graduated
with good degrees from a decent university with no allusions that finding a
job was going to be anything but difficult. Rather than feel like they're owed
a job the ones I know have spent hours _every_ day applying for jobs for the
past (up to) 2 years with no success. Most of the time they get no reply from
these companies (fair enough), but the few times they do get an interview
someone else with more experience gets the job.

This is clearly a frustrating position to be in. They feel like they've done
everything that was expected of them. They went to university and graduated
with a good degree. Now they see their friends who left school and started
working immediately progressing in their careers and can't help but feel like
they should have done the same.

All the while this goes on people from other generations who have jobs harp on
about how it's a disgrace that there are so many people on social welfare and
these people could find a job if they wanted.

When my friends get asked what they do and they reply that they're unemployed
they're treated like plague monkeys. They're villified by members of the media
and politicians looking for votes. Still they perservere. Far from feel a
sense of entitlement these people feel despair. You think they don't know that
they're "not fucking special" as you so eloquently put it?

If after two years of applying for jobs without an end in sight he feels like
venting a little bit of frustration at the attitudes of recruiters towards
people like him that's not the worst thing in the world. If his situation is
even half as bad as some of my friends' I wouldn't dare condescend to him by
calling him entitled, far from it.

It's not often I get angry after reading a comment on HN.

~~~
danhak
I cannot explain how much you have hit the nail on the head. I graduated from
college in May and have been having the exact experience you describe.

My generation has been described as entitled. Quite frankly, I _do_ feel as if
I am owed something, and that society at large has failed to keep its end of
the bargain. For my entire life, I was told that if I work hard in school,
bust my ass to go to a good university and graduate with quantitative degree,
I should have no trouble finding work. Now, half a year out of school, I find
myself rotting away at my parents house, sending applications to any
organization that might conceivably hire me, with no prospects and with no
illusions that I'll find work that is fulfilling or properly matches my skill
set.

The grandparent's post is condescending and presumptuous. My generation seems
entitled because the reality we are now confronting does not match up with the
fantasy world that adults have been preparing us for for our entire lives.

~~~
potatolicious
Society didn't lie to you, society never struck a bargain with you.

Your parents may have lied to you, maybe your teachers too. Whoever it was
that lied, _it wasn't us_. It probably wasn't malicious, some people are/were
genuinely extremely misguided about how the world operates (protip: not as
differently as before).

Here's what happened: you abdicated your responsibility in one of the most
important aspects of your life - your career. You placed in someone's hands
other than your own, and now you got bit by it.

Is it your fault? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps you were too trusting in believing
every bullshit thing that came out of your career counselor's mouth. Either
way, one thing's for sure: _it isn't the fault of society either_. If you had
ever bothered to go talk to software companies (assuming that's your field) in
high school, or shit, _during college_ , you would've realized that it takes
more than a fancy shiny piece of paper from a prestigious school to get a job.
You failed to own this responsibility.

So, it's either your fault for entrusting _your career_ to the incompetence of
others, or it's nobody's fault that you're unemployed. In either case, sitting
around complaining about how society has failed you will get nothing done -
your own action will.

I'm a year out of college, FWIW, and I hate this aspect of my generation
(which IMHO is one of the few notably different things about us) - when we
encounter unfairness and injustice, we shut down and complain, expecting that
the exposing of this unfair injustice will somehow fix everything. It won't.

I was rather fortunate in the sense that I was _forced_ to find jobs during
college (degree requirement), and was exposed to how the infernal machinations
of employment worked. I was 3 months out of high school, weeks into my very
first semester of university when I had to find my first paid internship.

It sucked. But here's are some lessons I learned from that:

\- don't just send resumes. Sending resumes is what every Tom, Dick, and Harry
does. In this economy, being Tom, Dick, and Harry doesn't work. Besides, do
you believe yourself to be strictly mediocre? If not, why are you doing only
what strictly mediocre people do?

\- find a list of software companies in your area (and within, say, an hour's
drive of your local area). Hell, expand this beyond software companies -
anybody who can employ a person of your skills. _It doesn't matter if they're
hiring_.

\- polish your resume, learn how to introduce yourself. Find a friend,
practice if you must.

\- hit the road. Seriously, just walk into these places and ask to speak to a
hiring manager. Don't ask if they have open positions - it doesn't actually
matter. Make sure you get someone in charge out to shake your hand. Introduce
yourself, explain that you are looking for a job, _know something about what
they do_ , and give them a paper copy of your resume. Learn about what they
do.

You do this right, your phone will start ringing. I've known several
practitioners of this strategy, and not a single one is ever looking for a job
for very long.

~~~
maxawaytoolong
This is a good post, but society did kinda lie.

From your mom to Mr. T to the President of the United States, the school-is-
cool, just stay in school and you'll get a job meme has been pretty prevalent
since I was a child, and I'm old.

~~~
terra_t
You know what pisses me off.

There's this continuous drumbeating that we need to produce more scientists
and engineers. So I went and got a PhD in Physics.

By the time I got my PhD, the American Physical Society announces that they
estimate that 3% of my graduating class would get permanent jobs in their
field.

So, the physics PhD mill encourages a few thousand of our brightest young
people every year to spend 5-9 years of their youth getting a credential
that's worth less than a roll of toilet paper. (At least you can wipe your ass
w/ a roll of toilet paper)

At least I got an all-expenses-paid vacation in Europe for a year (a postdoc,)
but I drifted for another three or four years afterwards before settling on a
somewhat remunerative and satisfying career.

This sort of experience, where you're set up to fail, but made to feel like it
was your own fault, can have a devastating effect on a person. I've mostly
healed from it now, but so often I have to answer questions like "Why aren't
you teaching?" and "Aren't you too smart to be a computer programmer".

The older generation does owe the younger generation realistic guidance and
training to start careers and keep society running. When it sets up machines
to chew up young people and spit them out, it wrongs them.

~~~
pak
Quant hedge funds, maybe?

I know a few that suck up physics and math PhD's dissuaded by dwindling
academia/research. Perhaps it's a soul-draining job, but the pay is good. Most
likely you will have to program, but since you're here I don't think that will
be a problem.

~~~
terra_t
I end up talking to recruiters from D.E. Shaw just about every six months. One
time I showed up at a conference Sun put on in the city and asked a question
about using the hardware for main memory databases and that got the attention
of one of them.

Hedge funds are pretty cool and pretty lucrative, but the only thing I really
want to do now is information extraction, semantic databases, stuff like that.
Finish the job that Doug Lenat started. And if you think that's crazy, you're
one less competitor that I have.

~~~
ohashi
So it's not about not being able to find a job if I read this correctly. You
just haven't found one that will make you do exactly what you want to do.

~~~
terra_t
yes

------
Robin_Message
This is a nice idea, with one big BUT. Not to rain on the parade here, but
you've been unemployed for two years and all you have to show for it is a
funny reverse job application. Sadly, it doesn't show what your actual skills
are, nor whether you have ever produced something of value for anyone. These
are more or less prerequisites to getting a good job.

Go look at
[http://jacquesmattheij.com/My+list+of+ideas+for+when+you+are...](http://jacquesmattheij.com/My+list+of+ideas+for+when+you+are+looking+for+inspiration)
and pick one. Or come up with another idea. Then build a website that does it.
Find some freelance work on the back of that. Something small that can show
off your talents. Rinse, repeat. Either you'll start applying to jobs again
and get accepted on the basis of your demonstratable skill, someone will give
you a job (which you'll have earned,) or you'll be one of the cool consultant-
entrpreneur-successes.

As you know, rejection sucks, but the worst thing is the social proof it is
against you. I'm thinking to myself "there must be something wrong with this
guy, so many people didn't hire him, there must be a reason." Do some things
that prove you are a success and people will hire you. You've been unlucky,
but sometimes you gotta make your own luck. This is an admirable attempt, but
if you want me to believe you are the kind of creative achiever you say you
are, you need to do more than say it. You can do it!

EDIT: Damm. As halaric points out, his personal web page does list these
things. It still needs at least a direct link and preferably a mention on the
application page though.

~~~
halaric
There's a link to his personal site which includes resumes at the bottom. I
guess he's hoping that the uninterested employers will self-select.

~~~
brosephius
wait, it's the employer's job to dig for your resume? this "reverse job app"
gives me no substantive data on what this guy's skills are, so why would I
even bother? if you want a job, it's your responsibility to make the case for
why you're worth hiring.

~~~
stealthdude
Likewise most job ads provide very little actual information about the job,
use vague descriptions for everything, do not explain what company or project
the job is really for, cannot explain what actual skills are required to do
the job, do not give any idea what pay-scale is being offered.

~~~
andreyf
Bingo. If job positions advertised themselves with clear examples of projects
I'd be expected to tackle within my first year on the job, I'd be a lot more
likely to consider switching.

------
hop
Your resume could be part of the problem -
[http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pd...](http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pdf)

Some constructive criticism: Thats a lot of ink to print that out, drop the
black and grey banners. Try using a resume theme from Pages or Word for a
start and just use black fonts on a white background. Use Myriad Pro or
something more modern than Arial. Make it one page. Your first entry shouldn't
be that you can use OSX and WinXP, my mom can do that.

Drop "Proficient in...", it sounds like you just know enough to get by. I
would also drop your high school info to be more concise. Your HS GPA says
"4.58 (weighted out of 4.0)" Either its bad math or its not out of 4. And I
would switch up your order of things - employment, education, skills &
projects combined.

Good luck!

~~~
masnick
The rule of thumb that my university's career center used is that after your
junior year of college no one cares about what you did in high school anymore.

And I second all the comments of the parent...resume definitely needs some
work.

If you still want a non-cookie-cutter resume template, try making one in
Latex. I personally use a heavily modified version of the template mentioned
here: <http://www.thelinuxdaily.com/2008/10/latex-resume-examples/>

~~~
dsspence
While that is the De facto rule in career centers, there is a rule that usurps
it, which is if it really does distinguish you from the average applicant, use
it.

------
krmmalik
I love it. Sincerely, i can say this, that if i was in a position to, i'd
definitely hire you.

But i have something of interest to impart to you.

Im from a background of arranged marriages (yes, im ok with it) and my parents
are currently looking for a suitor for me.

I've been rejected by ALOT of girls, and have been through almost the exact
same thought process as you.

I'd gotten to the point of grovelling, being content with anything that comes
my way, but now i'm realising and very quickly that i actually have a lot to
offer, and the girls should be begging to come to me.

So henceforth begins my reverse marriage proposal! ;-)

Maybe i should do a blog post!

~~~
mayank
> So henceforth begins my reverse marriage proposal!

Careful, that might be confused with "arrogant douchebag". What you look for
in a for-profit company aimed at maximizing profits is not necessarily what
you'd want in a husband. For example, you probably wouldn't want to "work with
a team" to solve intimate marital issues.

Which raises the larger point about this article, and hundreds of other
charmingly idiosyncratic applications -- they certainly are refreshing, but
may not always be received in the best way. Sometimes professionalism goes a
long way. This isn't your college application essay.

~~~
thirdstation
"Sometimes professionalism goes a long way. "

I didn't see anything I'd call unprofessional in his application.

People with jobs often feel overly entitled to define what constitutes
professionalism. (NB, I'm not addressing you personally, just the amorphous
"they".)

To me, the larger point of the article is how difficult in can be to break
through the arbitrary and diverse standards each HR department and hiring
manager has.

Sometimes it just feels better to state what you want and hope they find you.

------
chegra
His resume:
[http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pd...](http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pdf)

* For your level of experience, Everything should fit on a page.

* Take out the operating system part. They can infer them by the languages you use.

* Take out high school

* Create a section for awards and list them there

* Take out familiar with MatLab and Latex

* For each project give a link to a screen-shot or working project and ensure those links work

* Take out techniques, they should be able to infer them from the projects you did.

*The main point is show what you have done

~~~
hogu
matlab skills are highly desired for some jobs, If you know it well enough to
put it on your resume, you should just lump it in with the other languages.
same with latex(if you're possibly looking for anything academic/research lab)

~~~
gaius
Hmm, yes, but MATLAB is only a useful skill when combined with domain
knowledge, e.g. DSP, control, whatever. No-one is using MATLAB to write
websites.

------
RyanMcGreal
I hate to be _That Guy_ , but HTML Tidy tells me his page has 26 errors,
mostly related to proper nesting of elements. It's just too easy to make sure
your HTML is valid to let his "Attention to Detail" commitment slide.

~~~
3ds
True, on the other hand, including a doctype still makes sense to avoid quirks
mode. (There'd be less errors if he'd use html5 doctype though.) And as long
as it renders properly in A-grade browsers you're good to go.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
That's true right up until it isn't, i.e. when you're struggling to understand
why your javascript is producing subtly buggy behaviour.

~~~
ryanc
I hate to be that guy but:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases:_I#id_est>

~~~
RyanMcGreal
I know what i.e. means. The benefit to valid markup is _specifically_ for
ensuring that the javascript you write to manipulate the DOM works properly.

------
scott_s
It's one thing to not want to list buzzwords. It's something else entirely to
make _no mention at all_ of what kind of a job you're looking for, or even
what kind of a job you'd be good at. I assumed he wasn't a developer of any
kind until I got to his list of "I won't."

(I followed his link at the bottom to his real page and confirmed there that
he is a software developer.)

~~~
thirdstation
To me, it seems like he's looking more for personal fit than a specific job.
On his personal site he says he wants to be a jack-of-all-trades. As one
myself, I know he'll have a tough time finding a job using the traditional
approach. It's rare to see a job posting for a generalist but, everywhere I've
worked had one.

~~~
scott_s
But a generalist _in what area._ My first thought was he was looking for a job
in the advertising industry, based on the page itself. He gives no indication
what he wants to do. Even saying "I design things" eliminates, say,
accounting.

~~~
thirdstation
Violent agreement. Focusing on one thing dramatically increases your chance of
success, and makes it easier for folks looking for that specific thing to
identify you.

Mr. Horner's site seems even more reverse than a reverse application - does
that make sense? He seems to be saying, "First, decide if you like ME. Then,
decide if you have a job for me."

EDIT: I should have said "industry" instead of "thing" in my second sentence.
He's stated he wants to be a generalist, not a specialist. He would fare
better by targeting a specific industry.

~~~
scott_s
That I certainly agree with - the industry point. He probably has an industry
in mind, but he has not communicated that at all.

------
jph98
I sympathize. It's horrible being in this position when you first graduate,
rest assured - somebody will give you a break, I assure you that. Some advice

1\. Clean up your CV, make it look more for professional and less arty.

2\. Stress the open source project and dev blog in interviews along with any
books/resources and interesting language features/features you're currently
using at the moment.

3\. Don't wait for somebody to come to you. A good approach is to approach
employers directly rather than using recruitment agents or middlemen. You will
find somebody who will give a break. Recruitment agents are the scum of the
earth, but sometimes very useful - I didn't find them so useful when starting
out.

4\. You weren't unemployed for two years - I can't stress this enough. You
worked on open source projects during that time and learned a whole bunch.
Right?

Good luck with the job search : )

------
citricsquid
This is one of those things that will work once because of the novelty, but
not again. Who really is willing to hire someone based off of nothing but
speak? Maybe if he attached this to his work (cool things he has built?) maybe
it would work, but all I know about this guy after reading his site is:

\- He went to college \- He can't find a job \- He is a programmer

beyond that I know nothing, why would I hire him? Sure this might work this
once because it's a ballsy "viral" idea (it's here, if that's proof enough)
but it isn't sustainable which is what some people seem to see it as.

~~~
andrew1
Well, presumably if someone was considering hiring him based on this there
would be some kind of interview process before he's hired.

------
middlegeek
Submitter here: This is not my site! I am not the person doing the reverse job
application. I stumbled upon the site and thought the mindset was something HN
would like and possibly get inspiration from.

~~~
tomedme
How did you stumble across it?

~~~
middlegeek
I can't remember if someone sent it to me or if I saw it on another aggregate
suite. Probably the latter.

------
AlexC04
I liked it. Hope you hear you've found something.

I do think that you will need links to some technologies you've built. If you
don't have anything built yet, why not get started? Since you're out of work
why not start with something simple (a "facemash" clone for pokemon?? wait,
don't do that, I want that one now. oh who am I kidding? the market can bear a
dozen facemash for pokemon clones)

I went to see the social network the other day and there was one line that
knocked my socks off (wish I'd known it when I was fresh out of uni) "We
encourage students to create their jobs rather than find them"

Instead of looking for work, why not get started on making your own work?

Will code for food.

:)

Good luck! Let us know when you've found something!

~~~
thewordpainter
"We encourage students to create their jobs rather than find them" - i agree
it was one of the better lines in the movie, but i am not sure i believe
harvard actually possesses that mentality. stanford? probably. hardvard?
probably not.

i've heard a number of times (and believe) that the most successful
entrepreneurs are often the B-student rebels that manage to hire the A+
students for their startups.

~~~
AlexC04
yeah - I wanted to get the quote right so I googled first.

"we will offer our students the ability to land the job of their dreams or
create it."
[http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02/09_hls.venture.fund....](http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02/09_hls.venture.fund.html)

At the end of the day, I think it's mostly irrelevant where they say it
(Havard, Stanford, Berkley, Carleton, all, none, who cares?) - it's the
sentiment that really matters.

------
MtL
I wouldn't hire the guy. He does not communicate well what he does and what
kind of position he is looking for, he spends a couple of paragraphs telling
the world how useless he is, and he did not show any initiative to start
something himself while he was unemployed. Nice try, but it's not sufficient
to convince me.

------
sachitgupta
Susan (from Seth Godins six month MBA program) did something similar:
<http://main.susanhiresaboss.com/>

~~~
sethg
I like this one better than the OP, because the front page gets straight to
the point: “Hi. I'm Susan. My superpower is getting things done. It's an
exceedingly rare and critical superpower. I battle the agent of chaos. I
overdeliver. I delight. I amaze. And I'm looking for a place in need of a
superhero like me.” That’s a 30-second elevator speech in 10 seconds.

By comparison, I have to scroll halfway through the original posting to get to
an “About Me” section to find out what the author thinks _his_ qualifications
are, and they include stuff like “perfectly capable of obtaining my own snacks
and beverages” and “usually wearing clothes”. Har har har. Now tell me, as a
potential employer, _why I should pay you money_.

~~~
sachitgupta
I agree. And at what point is this ingenious, rather than copying something
that's already been done?

------
shrikant
The form validation error messages are interesting, too :-)

 _In case Andrew Horner reads this: yes, I'm one of the people (assuming there
are more such curious folks) that filled in junk info to take a peek at those
error messages. Sorry!_

~~~
blaines
* Nice try at anonymity, but I'm going to need a name.

* Oh, you're unemployed too?

* Not sure how you expect me to respond without this.

* Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but that doesn't seem like an actual e-mail address.

* Let's not take any chances here.

* You're either a terrible typist or a poor listener. Make sure your email address matches in both fields.

* Hey, if you don't know what to call the job, I'm not sure I want to be doing it.

* SOUNDS INTERESTING. Wait, you didn't write anything here.

~~~
gvb
> You're either a terrible typist or a poor listener. Make sure your email
> address matches in both fields.

I would humbly suggest "Oh, I see you haven't mastered cut'n'paste yet."

------
canterburry
If you have been unemployed for 2 years, I would expect you to have an acronym
list on your resume longer than anyone with an actual job.

Being unemployed can offer HUGE advantages in terms of being completely up to
date on the latest and greatest, something most employed people simply don't
have the time for.

You don't need a job to tech you the tools of the trade so make sure you walk
in with those already in your back pocket.

There have been plenty of crafty people on HN who have built up a resume with
experience by simply offering free services in order to prove they can do
something. I would suggest you do the same at this point.

------
yeahisaidit
All of you saying "this is a waste of time", "you wouldn't take a second
glance", etc. are contradicting yourselves. If you "wouldn't waste your time
reading it" why did you? And why are you taking the time to comment? You're
giving this site the exact thing it was meant to get...ATTENTION. It obviously
was written with humor and meant to attract attention. I am sure he would give
a potential employer his qualifications (and experience) once he got their
attention and they asked. If you're taking this THAT seriously (cough, cough,
run4yourlives) you're obviously the exact kind of person no one would want to
work for! I understand that you're upset you don't quite meet the
qualifications. ;)

------
fara
I know a page that already does reverse job applications, it's called
LinkedIn.

------
eru
A relevant title might have been better than an apology.

------
ekanes
While I agree that stating he's been rejected for 2 years isn't the best
opener, many commenters are missing the point. He may not have impressed _you_
specifically, but the fact that this is polarizing is an indicator that it'll
probably succeed.

Having people love and hate you is a big plus whether or not you're marketing
yourself, your product or your company. Much worse if people shrug and move
on.

Other polarizing examples: Harleys, cruise vacations, the iPad, Crocs sandals
and of course avocados.

Quite literally, he only needs to impress one person with this.

------
heimidal
I'm 25 and didn't go to school, but I spend most of my time around those who
did. I have many, many friends who are unemployed artists or are business
types working less than full-time who would kill for a decent full-time
position.

That said, I _cannot_ understand how a young, motivated programmer has trouble
finding a job. The company I work for in Denver has been looking for Ruby and
front-end web developers of all levels, and from all over the country, for
months.

First priority: make writing code a lifestyle choice. Need a better resume?
Write some code -- anything -- and put it on Github. Bored? Write some code
and put it on Github. Sick of sending out resumes? Write some code and... you
get the idea. Strong candidates love the craft, not just the paycheck. Show
pride in your code and prove you'll want to write code at work and at home.

Programmers who work at companies that you should actually want to work for
are not hired because they have great resumes or went to great colleges. They
are hired because they are capable of solving real problems while writing
maintainable code. If you can do that, you're an easy hire.

This goes for anyone. Want a serious, no-bullshit interview for a job in
beautiful Denver (we can help relocate) with fantastic benefits and doing work
for amazing clients? Write some decent code (Ruby or Javascript), put it on
Github, and comment with a link.

------
sequoia
I'm interested in finding out whether this guy gets a job. It's all well and
good to say he's "entitled" and whatnot but IF he couldn't get a job and now
he does, everyone talking shit will have simply been wrong. He states that he
has tried the well-worn route and it didn't work so he's trying something
else, I see no reason to fault him that.

If the pitch seems over the top to you, you've missed the point. He's taking
all the hoops and whatnot he's had to jump thru, and turning them on the
employer. Besides humor, it serves the purpose of him reasserting his self-
worth, after having it torn down by the poor job market. He feels that he's
good at what he does and is tired of feeling worthless because jobs are
scarce. Where's the harm in that?

That said, I think the site is very cute but quite absurd. I know almost
nothing about this person. I only figured out that he was a programmer about
3/4 of the way down the page. And I'm just inferring that he's a programmer,
he never states what it is that he supposedly does well.

If a manager actually saw this and wanted to hire him ("oh hey, that's funny
XD"), that would be a VERY bad sign about the company. Places that make
decisions in that way are not places you want to work. To paraphrase Groucho
Marx: I don't he should work for any company that would grant HIM an
interview.

~~~
sequoia
"I MASTERED the use of documentation..." "I MASTERED the ability to combine
several strategies..." (my emphasis)

Ok, perhaps he could stand to be taken down a peg or two.

------
elai
I'd suggest that you generate your own experience if a lack of experience is a
problem. Create iPhone apps that find movie listings, create websites that do
something, put it on github, create a LinkedIn profiles, (it's a tech
recruiter's best friend) and get connections with everyone you know, employed
or not. Gain a reputation on IRC channels, stack overflow, forums and other
programmer communities. Be willing to take one off contractor jobs that pay
relatively low (but higher than some retail cashier job) and see them through
to completion. Put all of that in your portfolio website advertising yourself
with pictures, resumes, links and other things. Make them without any sort of
revenue goal in mind so you don't limit yourself in your creations. You'll be
creating experience and if you hit it off on something, might of created your
revenue stream.

Also non technical people use resume buzzwords as easy way to filter through a
undefined mass of people. If you want to make an iphone app, your going to
look for someone with iOS, iPhone, Objective-C and mobile in their resumes or
portfolios. Even though you might pick it up and get up to speed to an
experienced developer in a month or two, it's a month or two in money that
they can avoid.

~~~
j1o1h1n
> get up to speed to an experienced developer in a month or two

Ho! You are not a fan of the "become an expert in ten years" theory?

------
ramidarigaz
I know a lot of people on here are saying that this would backfire horribly.
I'm sure this would turn away quite a few potential employers. That said, I
know several people who would be thrilled to find somebody like this.

------
charlief
Nice post, but openings for awesome jobs are the scarce resource, not people
to fill them.

~~~
LargeWu
In my experience hiring people, there are a lot more good job openings
available than even competent developers to fill those roles.

------
cloudhead
So.. you can doodle? What else? How do I know you even know how to code?

------
wittgenstein
I think the fact that this made it to the top of HN is unfortunate. This was
precisely what the author of the reverse job application intended. Yet,
creating a reverse job application web site clearly does not take any
significant skill. It is not a ground-breaking idea, or an idea that a common
job applicant cannot conceive. Yet, he is now claiming on his resume that his
idea went to top of HN, which, ironically, will be viewed by some as a worthy
achievement...

------
risotto
Getting a job is about networking. My little brother graduated this past
summer from University with an _gasp_ Anthropology degree and he has 3 job
offers to decide from.

The big difference is that he schmoozed the shit out of his TAs and professors
for the past couple years. His advisors were basically falling over
recommending him to their peers.

I doubt this reverse job application will work. Networking with friends and
peers will.

------
rfugger
Nowhere does it say what industry you're looking for work in or what your
major was. The only hint of it is your mention of "programming languages".

------
FiddlerClamp
My experience with an unusual resume:

Fed up with the way that Monster forced candidates to break down their resumes
into tiny text boxes (this was back in 2000), I wrote a narrative that could
fit into those boxes. Eventually I strung it together properly and created a
resume-sized PDF (see
[http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcy...](http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcypk6kp9p0spf)).

Results? One guy hired me on the spot -- a marketing consultant who was
working on his own. Since that one job, I've sent it out many, many times, and
have received maybe 1 or 2 responses out of hundreds.

I think it's well-written, but I can see it rubbing people the wrong way
because of its attitude and because it's not easily scannable like a regular
resume.

That said, since I was looking for work in marketing and tech, I'm surprised
more people weren't interested in following up.

* I am employed now, so this isn't a resume-spamming post. :)

------
EGreg
The fact is, it's often not the skills that get you noticed, but a unique
stunt, like Atomic Tom on the train the other day, or what you did.

Congrats.

However, there is a way to get a lot of job offers. Just post your resume to
the job boards and the employers WILL find you. Ether market yourself, or find
someone who will. And definitely don't grovel!

Til then, start your own business :)

------
Ripst
If you do not get an awesome job within the next 24 hours, the world is in a
sad sad state. Fingers crossed here.

~~~
yeahisaidit
:) I think it was awesome. Hope someone hires him. Then the rest of us will
have some hope

------
dools
I love it. Let the haters hate.

Resumes are totally boring and anyone who can program and draw witty cartoons
is going to be an asset.

Look how many people know the name Andrew Horner now?

This is not the end of a job application process, it's the beginning, and it's
a sure fire way to by-pass the HR gatekeepers and go straight to the decision
makers.

Obviously, as an employer, you would go through the same sorts of evaluation
process to try and figure out if he can actually do anything - just the same
as you would with any other employee (as if you can trust what someone has on
their resume anyway!)

I only wish I made enough money to hire this guy and enough work to keep him
busy.

And enough money to afford office space in which I could install a whiteboard
on which he could draw a different cartoon every day.

Maybe I should do a REVERSE REVERSE job application so that he begs ME to come
and work for my company!!!

Check MATE Horner!

------
micheljansen
With the risk of sounding redundant: I would never wish to reverse the job
seeking process for myself. I prefer to keep my destiny in my own hands and
seek out the job I feel best fits my skills and interests. I don't trust
potential employers to just magically find me, a single person, and appreciate
me for what I am worth. Too many times already I have been approached by
recruiters that get triggered by a line in my CV stating that I can do X or
have experience using Y and want to hire me to do that for the rest of my
life.

To all the good recruiters and intermediaries out there, I apologize. I have
lost all faith in your profession and feel you treat the companies you
represent as the customer and me as the product. Quite frankly, I'd rather
pass and take my chances on my own.

~~~
dripton
Of course the company is the customer and you are the product. They pay; you
don't. Follow the money.

~~~
micheljansen
Exactly, the only winning move is not to play.

------
lukevdp
How about start freelancing? Or start a business?

Nobody is "entitled" to a job. Yes, the job market is tough right now, but the
reality is, if you're totally awesome at creating value, you're going to get a
job. If you think you're totally awesome at creating value and you can't get a
job, you're not really totally awesome at creating value (it means other
people are more awesome than you)

Freelancing is entering the marketplace where you ONLY get paid on your value.
If you can't freelance (in the web industry), what makes you think you can
make your employer money?

Having said that, I think this is a great way for Andrew to stand out and get
a job, he obviously knows how to draw attention and be different, he's proven
that with the reverse job posting, and best of luck to him.

------
TWAndrews
I like the idea and creative approach, but I'd like to know a bit about what
your skills are. It not in the theme of the site to put up a resume, but you
need to give me an idea whether or not you're somebody I'd want to hire as a
developer, or to work in marketing.

------
vital101
This is how most talented people get jobs. I have a resume on a two job
portals, and (not to toot my own horn) I get job offers several times a week.
I'm already happily employed, but the point is that I never look for work yet
it still comes to me.

Best of luck on your ventures!

------
loupgarou21
Back when I was first trying to break into my field, the one thing that always
struck me as completely ridiculous was the fact that almost all job postings
for entry level positions required quite a bit of experience.

I ended up getting my first computer related job by helping a school get some
stuff setup while I was out of work. They ended up offering me a job because
they needed some part time help and I had done a good job with the volunteer
work I had already done for them. I worked at the school for a little while
which gave me some experience to put on my resume. After getting that initial
job, it's been pretty easy to find additional jobs.

------
davidw
How did this get twice as many upvotes as patio11's extensive, detailed notes
from the Business of Software conference?

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795896>

~~~
middlegeek
No kidding. I submitted this post on a whim and my karma went from 30 this
morning to 473 and is still rising.

------
noarchy
The lack of completed projects in the last two years is a blinking red light.
This just makes it look like an unexplained job gap. Two years is plenty of
time to have done something, even if it was not paid work.

------
Dilpil
One mistake many recent college graduates make is looking for openings in the
wrong places. Its understandable- no one ever tells you how to get an entry
level job.

To clarify, craigslist and monster.com are absolutely the wrong places for
entry level job seeking. From what I hear, they kind of suck for any job
seeking.

The best place is a company's website. Quite a few company's have a "students"
or "new graduates" sub-section in their careers section. This is how I ended
up at my job.

Networking and on campus recruiting are nice too, but they aren't always an
option.

~~~
yxhuvud
Or, if it is a smaller company, a mail to jobs@company.com with a short
introduction and resume attached.

------
catshirt
i'd like to find out who hires andrew.

~~~
ciupicri
I'd like to find out what companies have contacted him.

The text from the site might look appealing, but as others have noticed, he
doesn't mention his field[1] (is it programming, graphic design, etc.?), his
resume is a bit hard to find[2] and it's also full of HR speak[3] (although
this might turn out to be an advantage).

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807937>

[2] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807094>

[3] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1808661>

------
togasystems
What has the writer been doing for two years?

He should focus on making something worthwhile. He will gain experience and
maybe a little bit of real world knowledge that employers look for.

------
known
You can get a job through _contacts_ and _connections_ when the economy is in
recession. Farming, Trading & Manufacturing sectors are the alternatives.

------
jaspalsawhney
Any thing is worth a shot in my opinion - its not like you have not tried any
other options so I think that this is a great way to make yourself known. Best
of luck.

------
petenixey
By making this page _potentially applicable_ to any job the guy has
unfortunately made himself inapplicable to every job.

Paul Buchheit once said that it's better to make something a few people love
than a lot of people like. He said that about apps but it's just as true in a
job application.

A job application is a sales process. Being clear and resolute about a few of
one's killer features is far more persuasive than being non-committal about
lots of them.

------
moron4hire
All this talk in this thread about "your generation is this, our generation
had that" is depressing. When did we, as a society, start characterizing
generations of people, beyond the typical old-person-calls-young-person-a-
whippersnapper? I'm 28 years old so suddenly I'm a texting, Second-Lifing,
flash-mobbing, Will-Ferrel-movie-quoting Democrat? Please, I'll stick to
defining my own identity, thanks.

------
bretthellman
That's a rough beat. Way to keep at it... I found it interesting to hear how
you're frustrated with recruiters not calling you back but then you're not
going to respond to every job offer you receive. I'd rethink that. Don't close
doors. Also, I didn't notice a mention of networking to find opportunities.
Did you talk to your friends that landed jobs for introductions? Best of luck.

------
eyeareque
I like his attempt, and hope he succeeds.

After looking at his resume I can see why he isn't getting any calls. That is
a disgusting resume layout. He really needs to make something more
professional, and to the point.

As a lot of people said, his attempt hasn't impressed them. However, you have
to remember that he only wants one job, so that means he only needs to impress
one person in order to reach his goal.

------
jasonlotito
> Possess strong written, verbal and interpersonal communication skills. If
> you can't tell the difference between "you're" and "your", _your_ never
> going to be able to get you're points across to me.

I can't tell if he's doing this intentionally to make a point, or it's just an
honest error. Still, it's amusing.

~~~
sofal
Looks like you missed his second intentional mistake in the same sentence.

------
danielnicollet
This a great idea. While the resume isn't too precise as to what the specific
skills Andrew has to offer, he demonstrates a great one creativity, good
writing and high motivation. I predict he is going to get at least a few
advertising and marketing job offers... Good luck Andrew!

------
Tycho
It's pretty funny. I took it as just an ironic take/satire on the demeaning
tone of job adverts. I hope it doesn't backfire on him (judging by some
peoples reactions in here, it might. Reading it I had thought 'I wish I'd
thought of this.' now I'm kinda glad that I didn't)

------
brockf
I don't get it. What does he do?

~~~
jlgosse
Marketing and Video Games & Animation I assume!

------
bfung
How about taking this one step further and help other people do a reverse job
application, almost head hunter-ish style. You've stated that you're
unemployed, so why not employ yourself? The Y Combinator application deadline
is today =)

------
thewordpainter
article is definitely entertaining.

i would personally recommend a hybrid approach to the traditional job board
postings and the 'reverse job application.'

i believe the best opportunities come from the ones you seek out. don't wait
for job postings. many of the best communities recruit from within. get in
their network! tell them you want to work for them!

they may not have a spot open at that precise moment, but when you leave an
impression like that (how often are they approached on a whim?), they'll be
pretty inclined to think of you when a position opens up...or they might just
open one up specifically for you :)

-adam

------
scotty79
Don't look for a job. Look for task that someone wants to pay to be done. Do
it. Get cash. Repeat with increased cash per unit of work until you will be
able to pay other people to do some tasks.

------
kingkawn
Nice link, but the title used to post here is empty of any information.

------
motters
I like his style. The first thing to remember if you're in this kind of
situation is that it's not your fault. It's the fault of corrupt bankers and
financiers, and maybe a few politicians too, so if you're apportioning blame
make sure you place it squarely where it belongs and not on yourself. It may
be hard, but try not to let endless rejections knock your confidence. Keep
applying and don't give up. If you're persistent and you have some good skills
then sooner or later pure chance alone will mean that some kind of lucky(ish)
break comes your way, and when it does make sure you seize it.

------
jiganti
Why doesn't he just implement ideas? Man, what I would've done to have the
technical expertise just a few years ago that I now have to outsource.

------
wazoox
Not bad, and very funny. In case he plans to work in web dev, publishing valid
HTML would be a plus :)

------
xpaulbettsx
If he was really clever he'd have a Google Analytics link in there so he can
track who's visiting :-/

~~~
bsk
He can get that more reliably (ad blockers stop GA) from his web server logs.

~~~
zackattack
give me a break. the vast majority of personal sites are on shared webhosts
who don't give clean access to access_log files (etc.) moreover, it's a pain
to parse files anyway.

------
Kliment
And why not? Sounds like he'd love to work at a startup, and can program.

------
albertcardona
I did a reverse job application once. I put a "hire me" link in my webpage,
leading to 3 sentences about what I wanted. It worked--the webpage presented a
small piece of software, and I was hired to write a bigger version of it. It
led to my current job today.

------
andjones
well done sir, well done

------
FreeRadical
I wonder if 37signals have replied yet

------
pcampbell
You should try offering a Reward for successful placement at
www.CareerElement.com

Also, we are having a startup career fair in Berkeley on November 2nd. You
guys should all come!

You can register at www.careerelement.com/jobfair

