
Psychedelic drugs reduce depressive symptoms by helping people accept emotions - InInteraction
https://www.psypost.org/2020/08/psychedelic-drugs-reduce-depressive-symptoms-by-helping-individuals-to-accept-of-their-emotions-study-suggests-57654
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is_this_valid2
> _" The only way to handle danger is to face it. If you start getting
> frightened of it, then you make it worse; because you project onto it all
> kinds of bogeys and threats that don't exist at all._

> [...]

> _The rule for all terrors is head straight into them. When you are sailing
> in a storm, you don 't let a wave hit your boat on the side. You go bow into
> the wave and ride it. So in the same way, old folklore says, whenever you
> meet a ghost don't run away, because the ghost will capture the substance of
> your fear and will materialize itself out of your own substance and will
> kill you eventually, because it will take over all your own vitality. So
> then, whenever confronted with a ghost, walk straight into it and it will
> disappear."_

— Alan Watts

Coping skills:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coping)

Defence mechanisms § Level 4: mature:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms#Level_4:_ma...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms#Level_4:_mature)

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acituan
Note that this study is not a controlled trial. It is measuring 358 people
_who already were going to use psychedelics_ , before and after their use.

What is severely missing is any report on incidence of _adverse reactions_ ,
especially since they have two subsamples, one within traditional contexts and
other completely self administered, which I would guess have different
strategies on handling those. Anyone who experienced a bad trip can attest
that set & setting matters a lot, and psychedelic experiences are far from
_guaranteed_ to be curative. For example for people high in neuroticism
psychedelics can cause challenging experiences which can increase neuroticism
even further. We don't know if those populations were screened out, implicitly
or explicitly. [1]

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5540159/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5540159/)

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PragmaticPulp
Thanks for linking the actual study.

The selection bias in studies like these is massive. Including only people who
actively planned to use psychedelics is a guaranteed way to bias your results
toward people who are already true believers. People who voluntarily chose to
seek out psychedelics, despite high legal consequences for doing so, are
likely already convinced that the psychedelics will "work" for whatever goal
they're trying to achieve. Selecting these people over the internet will only
further concentrate the group toward people who enjoy discussing and
researching this topic online. In short, they optimized the test group for
maximum placebo effect.

It's fascinating to watch how internet comments will quickly tear apart any
study of prescription medication that has obvious sampling bias, lacks control
groups, and relies on self-reported information gathered from internet surveys
_except_ when the study tells people what they want to hear.

I'm all for the resurgence of proper, controlled research into psychedelics
for treating mental health issues in conjunction with therapy. Let's get to
the bottom of this and draw some scientific conclusions on the matter.
However, questionable studies like this do more harm than good for the body of
research. It may feel good to see studies that claim positive results, but the
more we build the body of research on top of obviously flawed studies like
this, the harder it is for serious researchers and lawmakers to take it
seriously.

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im3w1l
Even with all the caveats it's still interesting. It suggests that if someone
is determined to use psychedelics to self-medicate their depression, you
should not try to stop them.

A priori you might think there is is a high likelihood that the drug use will
just make everything worse.

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acituan
> It suggests that if someone is determined to use psychedelics to self-
> medicate their depression, you should not try to stop them.

That is precisely the bias and weakness of this study. Self-medication is
almost always a red flag; why not do it in a context of other people that know
their stuff, be it tradition, institution (therapy) or even close friends that
are mutually invested in each other's long term well-being? DIY approaches to
self-transformation are fragile; no one to hold you out of potential pitfalls,
to protect you from re-traumatization, to call you out on your self-deception.

The title of the article that it "reduces depressive _symptoms_ " is also
telling of this bias. If _symptom reduction_ was equivocal to enduring
_transformation_ , weed, cocaine and alcohol would have already healed the
entire world. Without the study measuring if the subjects transformed their
lives in a way that they were equally symptom free for the next 6 months, 1
year, 5 years, we can't conclude anything curative really took place.

Don't get me wrong, they make a theoretical link to ACT in which experiencing
of chronically difficult emotions are facilitated, which does offer
potentially huge benefits, but just like we don't use studies on
antidepressants that show symptom reduction to go shop bunch of prozac, we
shouldn't readily assume we can use this one to facilitate our own healing in
a DIY fashion either.

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phoe-krk
Accepting emotions in their _whole_ shape and size as they are and occur is
something that I've been struggling with (and am still struggling with) since
childhood, especially since the way I've been brought up essentially repressed
expressing or even exhibiting whole classes of emotional reactions.
Psychotherapy works in my case, but is also long, painful, and tiring.

Any kind of scientific (and legal) development in other means of helping in
this matter will be beneficial for future people who will need to suffer less
after prolonged psychological stress and/or trauma.

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sowbug
Working through personal issues with the help of psychedelic mushrooms will
still be emotionally painful and tiring -- that's unavoidable with this kind
of work -- but it's potentially not as long because you're communicating with
parts of yourself at the speed of thought and shared context rather than with
another person at the speed of speech.

As for legality, if you have the means to visit certain US cities¹, you can
try psychedelic mushrooms with less risk, as they have been decriminalized in
those cities. They are still not legal, but the risk of legal consequences is
smaller.

¹[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_decriminalization_i...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin_decriminalization_in_the_United_States)

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zozbot234
> but it's potentially not as long because you're communicating with parts of
> yourself at the speed of thought and shared context rather than with another
> person at the speed of speech.

Insight meditation is another way of pursuing this, that does nicely side-step
the issue of having to rely on "mushrooms" and illegal drugs.

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wombatmobile
From the research article:

> We conducted a prospective cohort study utilizing an online convenience
> sample of individuals with plans to use a psychedelic. Participants were
> recruited via online advertisements shared through social media (e.g.,
> Facebook, Twitter), email newsletters, and online forums (e.g., Reddit).

> Based on when they planned to use a psychedelic, individuals were sent
> emails at three key time points [i.e., 1-week prior to psychedelic use
> (baseline), as well as 2-weeks and 4-weeks post-psychedelic use] reminding
> them to complete the online surveys.

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ineedasername
I don't think this sort of phenomenon is unique to psychedelics. Anti-anxiety
drugs (Benzos) used carefully for extreme anxiety issues can help reduce
anxiety to a manageable level. It gives a person the opportunity to learn to
manage their anxiety that would be difficult when in an extreme state. Then
reduce the dose, repeat the process, etc.

I'll reiterate though: This needs to be a careful, deliberate process
undertaken with both a pdoc to manage meds and a therapist to assist with
coping skills, along with a close eye that the process is working rather than
the drugs becoming a crutch. And it certainly won't work if the dose is high
enough to eliminate anxiety instead reducing it.

Totally masking negative emotions, be it depression, anxiety, mania, etc....
that should only rarely be an initial goal. Medication should help people
reach a state where those things are manageable, and work from there. Long
term medication is absolutely a necessary option, but should be an approach
taken when problems have been shown to be recalcitrant to various treatment
options designed to help a person overcome the root causes of their problems.
I fully understand that such a goal is often not attainable though. I'm often
frustrated by folks who say otherwise and espouse some cure-all like a keto
diet or various supplements, or plenty of other such things. It's great if it
works for a person, but they are, at their core, body-changing treatments
themselves, and just like all medications for these issues, whether or not
they work for a person is often hit or miss.

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biophysboy
Having taken psychedlics myself, it did a couple things for me:

1) gave me a better appreciation of my body - health, pain, stress, etc

2) helped me know what I enjoy most

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steve_adams_86
I’d echo that and add that it refreshes my perception of the otherwise
mundane. This is extremely helpful in allowing me to reevaluate things,
internal or external. I have a bad habit of being too sure of myself, often
pessimistically, and I suppose in a way this does reduce depression as the
study suggests. I find it lifts weights off, provides more optimism where it
was missing and less pessimism where it wasn’t helpful.

I’ve also seen it lead to trembling terror and nihilism in others so it’s very
much a YMMV kind of thing.

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Alex3917
The headline is a pretty good summary of the situation. Although it might be
more accurate to say that psychedelic drugs help people see the
interconnectedness between good and bad things, which helps people come to
terms with difficult experiences.

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steve_adams_86
For me, the ability to see that interconnectedness between good and bad
largely results from a subdued reaction to how those things make me feel. I
can think about it more, think about it differently than I normally would,
rather than shut it out and carry on.

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mensetmanusman
Drugs to repress emotions

Drugs to accept emotions

Drugs to create emotions

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genericone
It does sound a bit bleak. Are these drugs better or worse than the
animalistic hormones locked in our bodies? Mature adults know how to handle
the surging hormones that destroy teen emotions, maybe humans can learn to
deal with drugs... but only with constant exposure, just the same as we've
done in all our adolescence.

I am in no way for or against such drugs, having not experienced any
psychedelics or behavior control drugs in my entire life. Just a philosophical
thought I had after I read your comment.

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OneGuy123
I'd like to point out something: "Mature adults know how to handle the surging
hormones...."

This is not true for 99.99% of adults: proof: if adults would know how to
control "hormones" they would never experience fear, doubt, anxiety,...

Issue in most cases seems to be repressed childhood emotions.

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genericone
I hope I will always be able to feel fear and doubt, and that no drug can
steal that experience from me. Just as people who can't feel physical pain are
in tremendous danger every moment of their life, without the ability to feel
fear or doubt, you would also be ignorant of danger.

Anxiety is another beast right? Anxiety is the negative reaction to fear and
doubt. Lets leave adults out, mature individuals can handle small amounts of
anxiety.

