
Bay Area Home Prices by Transit Stop - webwright
http://www.estately.com/bay-area-home-affordability-transit-stop?largemap=true
======
EarthIsHome
Related somewhat: Atlanta median income down MARTA's Red line (travels North
to South) [http://news.wabe.org/post/atlanta-biggest-gap-between-
rich-a...](http://news.wabe.org/post/atlanta-biggest-gap-between-rich-and-
poor-us)

~~~
bydo
Here's one for New York:

[http://projects.newyorker.com/story/subway/](http://projects.newyorker.com/story/subway/)

And Chicago:

[http://youarehere.cc/j/subway/chicago.html](http://youarehere.cc/j/subway/chicago.html)

~~~
qqrs
A very cool sonification of income inequality along the New York subway:
[https://datadrivendj.com/tracks/subway](https://datadrivendj.com/tracks/subway)

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everly
Since pricing increases based on proximity to downtown SF, my intuition would
lead me to think that pricing should also increase based on proximity to a
BART station (or existence of a BART station) within a suburban city, since it
positively impacts ability to get to downtown SF. But I'm not sure that's true
in reality. It also doesn't line up with the stereotypical NIMBY complaint
I've always heard (e.g. Marin County) that transit attracts riff-raff and
would therefore depress home prices. I suppose there've been studies done on
this sort of thing so perhaps I'll have a quick google.

~~~
chipsy
There's a sort of "feedback loop inversion" effect in play where transit
caters to extremes of poverty and wealth and not the middle. For example, Palo
Alto's Caltrain stops are not high-end real estate because transit runs
through it - they're high-end because they have become a major destination for
tech workers over the course of a few decades. On the other hand, West Oakland
BART is within easy reach of many major destinations but it's been heavily
resistant to gentrification: major firms do not have a presence there, and
it's historically a working-class community, not a wealthy suburb. BART's
deployment there is effectively transit as a "handout" policy, a way to make
sure low-income workers get to their low-income jobs.

But places that are a bit outlying and don't have a big job market, like much
of Marin, sit in a nebulous zone in between: they aren't really "in demand"
right now, and that gives the community leverage to stomp out anything that
would change that.

~~~
omegaworks
>BART's deployment there is effectively transit as a "handout" policy

Is that really how it's framed?

~~~
chipsy
It's coded. You see "handout" named as such more often when it's low-quality,
inefficient service. With a system like BART, the whole thing was motivated by
pressure to relieve middle-class downtown commuters specifically, and everyone
else by chance(hence a design without redundancy that requires a midnight
service shutdown). Geometry forces it to pass through many types of
communities, but during construction, the slightly richer, whiter communities
had more room to shape their relationship to the system:

 _Prime examples of how public pressures escalated the cost of the system are
the Berkeley subway and the Ashby Station. After originally approving a
combination aerial and subway line through Berkeley, that city later came to
oppose the plan in favor of a subway-only line, which was much more expensive.
The new plan necessitated redesign of the Ashby Station from an aerial to a
subway facility. Extensive controversy and hearings ensued for the next 2 1 /2
years, finally to be resolved by Berkeley residents voting to tax themselves
additionally to finance the changes they wanted. Next, a Berkeley City
Councilman filed a successful suit to redesign the Ashby Station, yet a second
time, asserting the use of skylights in the original plans was not a true
subway design._ [0]

And indeed, the "nicer" stops on BART tend to be underground, while the
"inexpensive" ones are mostly aerial alignments adjacent to freeways. (See the
history around "freeway revolts" and you get a similar picture of class/race
division.)

[0]
[http://www.bart.gov/about/history/history2](http://www.bart.gov/about/history/history2)

~~~
mrbabbage
I highly recommend that you check out the book Mass transit and the politics
of technology: a study of BART and the San Francisco Bay Area. It's a
different, if similarly unflattering, take on the forces that shaped BART's
eventual geometry.

[https://www.worldcat.org/title/mass-transit-and-the-
politics...](https://www.worldcat.org/title/mass-transit-and-the-politics-of-
technology-a-study-of-bart-and-the-san-francisco-bay-area/oclc/800571)

------
govspy
I would have thought living near the airport would be the cheapest square
footage on that map.

In Toronto they can barely _give away_ apartments located near Pearson Airport
due to the incessant noise (and some crime, probably associated with the low
purchase price of the apartments).

The prices are ~50% of what they are everywhere else in the city.

~~~
rflrob
That is largely true for the east bay—the Coliseum Bart station is the
transfer point to the Oakland airport. And the neighborhoods around SFO are
not nearly as gentrified as many others nearby on the peninsula.

------
abritinthebay
This really makes me feel like the whole Raiders mess is missing a real
opertunity to turn that area into a great mixed use
housing/retail/entertainment area.

I mean it's got 3 lines running through it, it's near Alameda's lovely
shopping, it's near the freeway, it's quick to both Oakland and SF downtown.

LOTS of housing and options there - even IF there is a new stadium in that
area...

------
deathanatos
Why does Millbrae's price change by $6/sq between the BART map and the
CalTrain map? (Both services are serviced at the same station.)

~~~
rawnlq
Might be splitting by some voronoi method so there's no reason to expect the
areas represented by each station to be the same

------
dclowd9901
I can't understand why DC and Colma remain so cheap (comparably). Sure, the
area doesn't have as much walking distance locales but a quick Bart ride will
get you anywhere you want to go. Are people really that sensitive to small
inconvenience?

~~~
badusername
DC and Colma also suffer from some of the worst fog cover through out the year
around the area.

~~~
Reedx
Yep, Daly City is pretty miserable climate wise. It'll often be covered in fog
and cold in the middle of a summer day, while a few miles away it's sunny and
warm. You also have to deal with mold and rust issues.

I've looked at apartments there a couple times, and while it's vastly more
affordable than SF, the climate + distance outweighs the upsides (for me
anyway).

------
beatpanda
Now chart it for AC Transit transbay buses and weep at how much you've been
getting ripped off just because you don't want to take a bus to work

~~~
mahyarm
The transbay busses are slower because they get stuck on the bridge. 8 minutes
for bart to cross the bay vs 1hr for a vehicle on the bay bridge during rush
hour. If I'm wrong, I would be pleasantly surprised.

~~~
jdavis703
I took the transbay NL bus for several months. Never had a ride take anywhere
close to an hour, except for once when it was raining really hard, but that's
because traffic in SF was so gridlocked, but the bridge was OK.

------
jakelarkin
It would seem there's no where on the peninsula can you buy an average
1500sqft house for less than $1million, ~$700/sqft.

~~~
rgbrgb
[https://www.openlistings.com/p/172-sweeny-st-san-
francisco-c...](https://www.openlistings.com/p/172-sweeny-st-san-francisco-
ca-94134)

~~~
pmorici
In the shadow if the 280 / 101 interchange?

~~~
rgbrgb
Sure, just saying stuff pops up in that price range if you're patient. This is
better location and has a pool! [https://www.openlistings.com/p/257-justin-dr-
san-francisco-c...](https://www.openlistings.com/p/257-justin-dr-san-
francisco-ca-94112)

Peninsula sorted by price:
[https://www.openlistings.com/z/94134?focus_params_id=172-swe...](https://www.openlistings.com/z/94134?focus_params_id=172-sweeny-
st-san-francisco-
ca-94134&n=37.831088807314565&s=37.499527841533116&e=-122.30107939990233&w=-122.69384063037108&sort=price-
asc&property_types=%5B%22home%22%5D&price_max=999999&bedrooms=2)

------
Rhapso
I'm looking at moving to the bay area in the next few months. I've settled on
fremont but im looking at renting. Assuming rent linearly correlates with the
costs here it does not seem that bad a cost or commute (relatively speaking).
Any advice or cautions?

~~~
gjkood
Do you have kids of a school going age or will be in school in the next few
years? That makes a huge difference as far as SV is concerned. Fremont is one
of the better school districts in CA second only to the Cupertino school
district. Correspondingly prices in Fremont are quite high.

If schools are not an issue then you have a lot more options in terms of cost.

The next issue is prevalence of crime/safety. Fremont is a very safe place to
live, but as you go along the BART corridor there are variations in this
factor.

If you don't mind endless daily commutes then you can also look beyond the
Pleasanton/Dublin corridor where there are good schools coming up with
relatively affordable home prices.

~~~
throwaway76543
The Dublin/Pleasanton school situation is _considerably_ better than in
Fremont -- and always have been along with the rest of the 680 corridor
bedroom communities.

Fremont schools are a very mixed bag and while they've improved recently
thanks to gentrification they're not fantastic historically. There are still
quite a few moderately poor schools mixed in the Fremont district.

For your comparison:

[http://www.greatschools.org/california/pleasanton/pleasanton...](http://www.greatschools.org/california/pleasanton/pleasanton-
unified-school-district/)

[http://www.greatschools.org/california/fremont/fremont-
unifi...](http://www.greatschools.org/california/fremont/fremont-unified/)

~~~
sureshv
School and housing is better site than great schools.

[http://www.schoolandhousing.com/mobile/](http://www.schoolandhousing.com/mobile/)

Mission San Jose in Fremont is one of the top 10 public schools in terms of
API & SAT in the state of CA.

[http://schools.latimes.com/sat-
scores/ranking/page/1/](http://schools.latimes.com/sat-scores/ranking/page/1/)

~~~
throwaway76543
Yes, like I said it's a mixed bag. Mission San Jose has very high scores but
others like JFK High aren't great.

Unlike Fremont, all schools in Pleasanton have excellent scores. There is no
concern of rolling up into the wrong schools depending on where you live,
availability, etc.

------
KKKKkkkk1
What is Caltrain like for commuting in the South Bay? Would it make sense to
rent near a Caltrain station in one of the cheaper cities and commute to the
Silicon Valley area?

~~~
peedy
South bay from? My summer gig is in downtown Mountain View and I stay really
close to San Jose Diridon station. Looking at the schedule, the train ride can
be as short as 15 minutes (SJ to MTV) and the rents here are ~$3K/mo for a 2
bedroom apartment.

------
thrownaway2424
They must have major sample bias to rank Orinda below Rockridge.

~~~
gdudeman
We're using price per square foot. We are a member of the MLS, so we have
every home and condo for sale.

You know what looks crazy? Not factoring in size. We did it and it looked
really goofy.

(I'm the founder of Estately)

~~~
DannyBee
Price per square foot is .. not always a great metric.

Price per square foot tends to goes down as square footage goes up.

(For example, a 1700 sq ft home in mountain view will cost you 2 mil. A 3400sq
ft one in the same place will cost ~3 mil, not 4 mil).

~~~
gdudeman
Agreed. It's an imperfect measure.

I lobbied to put both on here, but then you end up with an unreadable map.

~~~
thrownaway2424
You do have to pick something and run with it, I understand that. But price
per square foot is pretty bogus because one cannot buy housing by the square
foot. You have to buy it per _house_. I think you could make a fair comparison
if you went with median 2-bedroom sale price instead.

~~~
gdudeman
Sure, but there are areas where there really aren't many 2 bedroom houses or
they aren't really representative of the local real estate.

~~~
melvinmt
Maybe just an average price per bedroom.

------
chirau
I stayed by 19th and Mission on Funston for a while. I didn't realize that
real estate was so expensive there. I would have thought the Embercadero,
Marina etc would be more expensive.

~~~
zghst
The Mission is up and coming, it's now one of the hot real estate areas. I'm
pretty sure Marina is more expensive, though it's not listed on the map.

------
filereaper
The average travel times by BART don't seem all that bad, most large
metropolitan cities need an hour by transit anyways. Do people in SF-region
really not commute to work from afar?

~~~
evmar
This article[1] claims that the "national average commute time is 24.4
minutes" and that "the San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont region is also No. 1 for
commute distance" in the country.

[1] [http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/03/05/san-francisco-bay-
area-n...](http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2013/03/05/san-francisco-bay-area-nations-
capital-for-megacommuting)

~~~
melling
30 minutes doesn't seem that bad. If you commute to Manhattan, you're looking
at least 45 minutes door to door from most directions.

Not to worry, within another 30 years technology will solve the problem and
mass transit will achieve great speeds, like 100 mph. The average commuter
train/subway now has to be less than 50 mph.

Get on a train in Mountain View and arrive in San Francisco in 15 minutes.

~~~
xjlin0
It is the frequent/nearby stops that make the mass transit slow today.
Nowadays all trains/bus engines can drive cars to 80mph already.

~~~
melling
No, do the math. The express trains and subways aren't that fast either. Some
are much slower because of frequent stops but that's not the only problem.

------
TwoBit
19th St Oakland is more expensive than Dublin/Pleasanton? Something is surely
amiss.

Also, Rockridge more expensive than Orinda??

~~~
abritinthebay
19th St Oakland is in the middle of Uptown - it was expensive 5 years ago, let
alone today. Not sure where you think it is but it's right in the middle of
one of the most vibrant downtown areas in Oakland...

Rockridge is likely more expensive PER SQUARE FOOT because Orinda has more
space so places are much larger but at the same price or only marginally
higher. I mean Stephen Curry just bought a 3.5 million place out there that's
pretty darn massive but a small 2 story home in Rockridge starts at like...
800k and not for a nice one either.

Makes sense overall.

~~~
sdenton4
I've been in Rockford for a year and a half, and just sabot the entire block
has been sold in that time. It's a pretty popular neighborhood... And closer
to everything than Orinda.

~~~
abritinthebay
Rockford? You mean Rockridge? Ditto - I moved here in late 2014 and it's by
far the most popular for new construction and old buildings being sold.

~~~
sdenton4
Yes, rockridge. Mobile typing ftw.

~~~
abritinthebay
Been there. Howdy neighbor!

