
Walmart’s $10 Smartphone Has Better Specs Than the Original iPhone - bane
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/walmarts-10-smartphone-has-better-specs-than-the-original-iphone
======
gbl08ma
"for one, it’s running an outdated version of Android that may make it
vulnerable to hackers"

Then I went to check what version it actually runs, and it's 4.4/KitKat. I do
not have any phone with a version more recent than 4.4 (and that's the case
for everyone I know). In fact, my phone is only running 4.4 because I went
through the trouble to look in Russian forums for custom ROMs for it, since
the manufacturer didn't get it beyond 4.2. My phone is a not very popular
model, but even for some former flagships the only way to go is to get custom
ROMs e.g. on XDA. Sure, I (and my friends) could get a new phone... but we are
not interested in changing phones before they are even out of warranty (2
years in Europe).

This is no surprise: Google's statistics[1] indicate 4.4 is still the most
used version. Cheaper phones being launched with older Android versions
doesn't help, that's true, but these cheaper models are good enough for many
people. And to be honest, the features (and change in looks/functionality)
introduced in the later versions do not interest me much. If only Android had
an update policy more similar to Windows and some Linux distros, where you
stay with a major release but get security updates for it, for a sane amount
of time...

[1] [https://developer.android.com/intl/zh-
tw/about/dashboards/in...](https://developer.android.com/intl/zh-
tw/about/dashboards/index.html)

~~~
yeukhon
I am not here to sell iPhone but the number two reason I left Android (I was a
Windows 5 mobile user, then Android, with a flag ship model, for ~2 years) is
because you can only get the latest from custom ROMS. If Google takes customer
service really seriously, Android will be amazing. I feel like Nexus is just a
gimmick more than a real thing that Google cares about.

My number one reason is simply the fact iPhone is built and sold by one
company. This is a plus and a minus, but in the long run, amortize cost makes
that a bigger plus than a minus. My experience so far, iOS devices can live up
to at least four major OS updates. That's at least 2 years. I think my iPhone
3GS lasted about 4 years before I switched to iPhone 6 (at that time the power
of 3GS was simply too slow to handle map and instant messaging).

~~~
user_0001
>If Google takes customer service really seriously, Thanks for that, you
brightened up my morning. Google and customer service :-)

Perhaps if you are spending millions on adwords, you "might" get some customer
service, but I doubt then it will be great

~~~
marcosdumay
No need for millions. I've spent $15 on adwords once, and since them I get
letters from Google twice a year, with phone numbers I can call for support
and a coupon.

~~~
s73v3r
Have you actually used the support numbers?

~~~
marcosdumay
No I didn't.

I assume somebody will answer if I call there, but I have no idea about
service quality.

------
jcadam
Smartphones are close to achieving 'commodity' status as far as I'm concerned.

I just paid $60 (no commitment/contract) for a Lumia 640 (it was a gophone,
which works fine on my regular AT&T plan). It's a reasonably fast, decently
built phone, and I must say the Windows phone UI is starting to grow on me
(and I HATE windows 8/10 on the desktop).

Besides voice calls, I use a smartphone mostly for texting, email, web
browsing, maps, music, and the occasional (netflix) streaming video.

A $60 phone can now handle all of these things easily, so I would be stupid to
spend more (vanity? status symbol?). If I drop it onto the sidewalk and it
shatters, I'll merely sigh, mumble something obscene, and go buy another one.
My reaction to dropping a $600 phone would be a bit more... extreme (mostly
because I can't afford to replace a $600 phone on the spot).

~~~
rpgmaker
For me they have been a commodity for quite a while. My main concern is size,
it's become rather difficult to find reasonably spec-ed "smaller" phones. Many
are advertised as small phones but really aren't (HTC does this over and
over). Samsung's Galaxy Mini is getting bigger and bigger with each release.
I've never been an iPhone user but before they released their big phones I
always saw their small iPhone, their flagship phone no less, as a shining
light of reason in a field full of crazy-sized phablets.

I don't mind the phablets, what bothers me is that they're forgetting that
some people want a phone that they can use with just one hand. Apparently
there aren't that many consumers committed to buying only those kind of
phones.

~~~
porker
The Moto G 4G was the only sensibly-sized, sanely-priced phone I could find 12
months ago. The camera's awful but otherwise it's a good phone.

~~~
makomk
Unfortunately, I don't think the original Moto G and Moto G 4G are getting
security updates anymore, and all the newer phones are much bigger.

~~~
_delirium
The original Moto G (1st gen, 2013) is still getting updates. Not even just
security patches, but even full OS version upgrades. I just got an OTA upgrade
to Android 5.1 a few months ago.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
That is the last update for the 1st gen which seriously screws 4G owners
because M will be released less than two years since that phone's
introduction.

------
StevePerkins
For $10, I'd use it as an MP3 player at the gym or when out walking... so I
don't have to worry about dropping my expensive phone (as I'm prone to do once
a month or so). 4 GB would hold more Spotify playlists than I would ever need
at one time.

It's amazing that as recently as five years ago, I was paying around $100 for
a dedicated MP3 player for exactly this purpose.

I'd have no interest in the "phone" feature... and would never even install a
SIM card. I have to believe that many people have thought of this idea, and
that has to be a problem for TracPhone since they're probably selling this
device at a loss in order to sell phone/data services.

So since it's "Out of Stock" right now, I wonder how many ever were in stock
in the first place? My suspicion is that they released a small number of
devices as a P.R. stunt to attract publicity. The hope being that some number
of people who click the link to check it out will proceed onward to buy one of
the "real" devices that isn't being sold at a loss. I'd be surprised if you
ever do see this $10 model "In Stock".

~~~
jerf
"So since it's "Out of Stock" right now,"

It looks like it may not have been released yet. If you try the "buy in store"
option it won't let you have it until Friday.

This also seems to be perhaps a rev on their $20 phone:
[http://www.walmart.com/ip/Net10-LG-Lucky-Prepaid-
Smartphone/...](http://www.walmart.com/ip/Net10-LG-Lucky-Prepaid-
Smartphone/44751498?action=product_interest&action_type=title&item_id=44751498&placement_id=irs-106-t1&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id&category=&client_guid=2860a1c9-2a67-43ce-99ff-8c85163c8536&customer_id_enc&config_id=106&parent_item_id=45822125&parent_anchor_item_id=45822125&guid=345eca84-c854-4dc2-ab7f-097a67eae2e1&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n)

Can you really buy these with no service plans?

~~~
maxerickson
No service plan is required. I think the software is even more aggressively
bonded to TracFone service than is usual though.

(TracFone is the company behind many of the phones at Walmart:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TracFone_Wireless](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TracFone_Wireless)
)

------
eridal
I've found the phone specs[0] and seems to be pretty good for thinkers and
makers!

There's plenty of sensors --and opportunities-- for less than $10.

\- Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 1.2 GHz Dual-Core MSM8610

\- 1.9 GHz CDMA PCS, 800 MHz CDMA

\- 65K Color TFT, 480 x 320 pixels, 3.8" (HVGA)

\- 1,540 mAh / 7hours talk - 9day stand by

\- microSD 4Gb (included) -- up to 32Gb

\- 3MP Rear-Facing Fixed Focus Camera with Flash and WVGA Camcorder

\- Accelerometer

\- 802.11 b/g/n

\- Bluetooth 4.0

\- GPS

I'd like of another sensors not listed there; like light, proximity, or
magnetic .. maybe anyone with the phone can confirm?

[0] [http://www.lg.com/us/cell-
phones/lg-L16C-lucky](http://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-L16C-lucky)

~~~
cowardlydragon
Better than a raspberry PI?

~~~
542458
Well, you lose on documentation, community, IO ports, USB ports, and
potentially hackability. The first two of those are the most significant IMHO.

~~~
dharma1
IO ports might be doable - [https://github.com/mik3y/usb-serial-for-
android](https://github.com/mik3y/usb-serial-for-android)

Agree with you on 1. and 2. though. One day you'll be able to run full linux
on more hardware like this

------
sambeau
What are these devices like for hacking with / and or attaching to other
electronics? What is android like for these sort of uses as opposed to, say, a
Raspberry Pi (or Arduino)?

I'd love to use something like this to monitor the water in a tank on a
hillside. The battery + the Cell connectivity + (potentially) the camera would
be perfect. (I'm sure there are suitable solar phone chargers that would work
with it too)

It's so cheap I could afford to break a few...

~~~
thearn4
I think the biggest advantage of a micro-controller (like Arduino or an MSP)
or prototyping microcomputer (like the Pi or BeagleBone) are control of GPIOs
from a reasonably high-level language. At least for my applications. serial
and parallel ports on PCs used to give you some functionality similar to this
too. But smartphones lack that for the most part (the best you can expect is
typically bluetooth comms with a separate device).

If you need remote logging, the 3G Particle Electron boards (particle.io)
should be released soon, which I'm pretty excited for.

~~~
TkTech
More importantly, the power usage typically is/can be a few orders of
magnitude less, especially when _you_ can control the power state of the IC
and wake it up with an external interrupt. I have a weather monitoring station
that works off of two AA batteries for 12-16 months at a time.

------
djfergus
Very exciting to see $10 pocket supercomputers in ubiquitous retail, but
surely this is a just a loss leader? Wouldn't the patent transfer payments
alone put this underwater?

Has anyone traced the origin of this model? Is it remaindered stock from
somewhere (and therefore a sunk cost)?

~~~
unsigner
OK, I understand the value of hyperbole here and there, but calling this a
supercomputer is akin to calling it a floodlight because its screen glows, or
a space heater because its back gets slightly warm when charging.

The smallest/cheapest thing that can hyperbolicaly yet somewhat reasonably be
called a supercomputer nowadays IMHO is a PC with several beefy GPUs.

~~~
scentoni
The first supercomputer was capable of at most 160 MFlops, which is much less
than this.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-1)

------
TeMPOraL
Give me a tablet this cheap and I'm ordering 10 of them, to finally hang
touchscreens in every room of my home and wire them up to an LCARS interface.

(Actually, I recently had an opportunity to get some tablets for $8/piece from
a bank that was getting rid of the equpiment, but unfortunately me&my friends
got outbidded by some company :<.)

EDIT: any source for tablets that are less than $40 / piece and decent enough
to work as wall-hanged touchscreens (doesn't look like total crap, is able to
run Android and some apps while connected to Wi-FI without getting
unresponsive) would be much appreciated.

~~~
gozo
You can get decent tablets in China for $30-40. Not like a few years ago when
everything low end was crap. Except cameras which usually isn't very good
still. Of course it's hard to know what you are buying unless you have it in
your hand. The cheap ones are usually mediatek, allwinner or similar.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Fortunately I'm in Shenzhen right now. I was wary of the cheapest stuff here,
but maybe I should check it out. Any particular brand recommendation?

~~~
gozo
Not really things changes too quickly. You want to go to 13/14 on this map
over HQB though.

[http://www.seeedstudio.com/document/pdf/Shenzhen%20Map%20for...](http://www.seeedstudio.com/document/pdf/Shenzhen%20Map%20for%20Makers.pdf)

------
dijit
There is a certain 'rub' when people compare two pieces of technology.

While it's certainly true that the cpu/memory are faster or better than an
iphone was 8 years ago.. and at such a low price.. when people compare
specifications they always lose perspective on build quality.

It's very hard to quantify that from a product data sheet, but if this thing
was built like a early 00's Nokia, then it would be worth a lot.

But for $10, do you need a smartphone at all? why not grab one of those
"burners" that have a battery life of 2 months which additionally can survive
some abuse?

I understand that for $10 people should curb their expectations, but the title
is comparing apples to oranges.

"$400 smartphone from 8 years ago with high build quality vs $10 phone now
with unknown build quality"

~~~
hueving
>But for $10, do you need a smartphone at all?

For poorer people, a smartphone may be their only access to the Internet.

~~~
vijayr
I guess non-profits that work with homeless people, at risk youth, domestic
abuse victims, war zones etc will find creative uses for this. Another example
would be Syrian refugees arriving in Europe.

------
simonh
Apple sells an adapter cable with similar specs to the original iPhone[1]. It
does cost more than $10 though.

[1] [https://www.panic.com/blog/the-lightning-digital-av-
adapter-...](https://www.panic.com/blog/the-lightning-digital-av-adapter-
surprise/)

------
ck2
There have been $10 phones in the USA for a couple years now, they all have
the same low end specs.

    
    
         512mb of memory (which is limiting)
         480x320 screen (this is the weakest part)
         dual core (which is nice for the price)
    

The new thing this year is $5 and even $1 phones but some of those are single
core and don't have gpu accelerators.

~~~
listic
Please give links to those even cheaper phones.

------
rsp1984
Is that 10 dollars as in 10 dollars, or 10 dollars plus a 2-years contract for
phone and data that sums up to something like 500 dollars (as it is with the
iPhone)?

Obviously in the latter case the money is made on the contract, not on the
phone.

~~~
dugmartin
It's a TracFone so you pay by the minute - no contract.

~~~
marincounty
I have this phone, or the predecessor? Yes, the carrier is TracFone. For $100,
plus tax, you get 1000 minutes for 365 days. You need to buy the lousy phone,
but it's cheap.

It's fine if you just want a cheap phone. I only use it for calls, because
that's all I've been able to do with the phone. So, even though it has
Internet access; I haven't got it to work.

Oh yea, you need to unlock the screen whenever you call, and the touch screen
software has a bug in it. It's hit it miss if you can access the answer
button.

That said, if you don't have much money, or hate paying huge monthly bills--
this phone plan is fine. The phone is chitty. I have a iPhone 4, and an
android I use at home. Both are not with a carrier, but work for my needs.

Will I buy another year's worth of minutes--maybe? I like not paying a monthly
phone bill to some company that I really never cared about, and only
frustrated me, for years, with their rediculious billing practices.

~~~
Zenst
WOW I appreciete you get somewhat bad deals teclo wise in the USA but even
that bites. In the UK can get for £10 (7.50 for 3 months) unlimited calls/text
and...data.

Kinda messed up, still even for the UK that phone is a steal price wise.

~~~
michaelt

      In the UK can get for £10 (7.50 for 3 months) 
      unlimited calls/text and...data.
    

I've never noticed a deal that good; indeed most providers don't offer
unlimited data at all and the one that does has a fair use policy and doesn't
allow tethering [1].

Where should I look to find unlimited data, calls and texts for £10/month?

[1] [http://www.knowyourmobile.com/mobile-
phones/4g-uk/16065/unli...](http://www.knowyourmobile.com/mobile-
phones/4g-uk/16065/unlimited-data-which-uk-network-offers-most)

~~~
Zenst
[http://www.vectonemobile.co.uk/](http://www.vectonemobile.co.uk/) curent
Flavour of the time for me, was GiffGaff who equaly did unlimted data deals
cheap - now not so cheap.

Your right about fair usage but never had an issue myself and had moments of
heavy usage often hitting around 15GB+

------
olefoo
If you're doing mobile dev, this is the phone you should be doing your user
testing on.

Unless your target audience is exclusively wealthy people who run only recent
iOS devices. In which case, carry on.

But if you are building something that needs to be widely available then this
should be one of the devices on which you do extensive testing.

~~~
5ilv3r
This. So much this. The whole "writing software only for the hardware elite"
thing is really holding us back as a society. Sure they have money, so they
might have some for you. I get that, but it's going to be pretty rotten for
everyone when the cash stops flowing and people learn the hard way that you
can't redraw 120 times per second on crap hardware.

/rant of a classic hardware enthusiast

------
azinman2
I wish they'd have talked about what it takes to get this to $10. At what cost
to human rights, the environment, labor, etc.

The invisible costs are huge.

~~~
jldugger
I'm curious why you think that the price of the phone affects environmental
impact per unit. Or why labor is more exploited per unit.

Chips are cheap on the margin; the big expensives are chip design, testing,
and constructing fabs at evershrinking scales.

~~~
azinman2
So this phone is $10 retail. In it you gotta discount amazons margin, any
middle mans margin, shipping and logistics, and marketing. Now add subtract to
the original manufacturer. The manufacturing has to be few or less dollars,
and that has to include raw materials and labor. With such a low price it's
very unlikely you have the nicest pays and most environmentally responsible
practices.... There isn't enough room for it.

The only plausible way imho is if all the stock to make it was already fabbed
and not sold, so either they lose the already invested money or discount it
significantly to minimize loss (and it'd still be a net loss)

------
lbradstreet
Is it locked to a prepaid carrier? If so, then it's probably being sold at
under cost.

~~~
runholm
It's locked to a pay pr. minute deal, so if you use it as a smart device on
wifi only you never have to pay anything. Great for people with very limited
funds and no access to the internet in other ways (assuming they can get
access to a wifi, which you at least can do many places in large cities).

~~~
lbradstreet
You're right, it's still an amazing deal. I'm just pointing out that it likely
can't be produced and sold at retail for a profit for $10.

------
tedchs
The question is, how much is this phone's manufacturing cost subsidized by
Tracfone so it can be sold at a loss?

------
richardboegli
This is why I thought the Android One program was a waste of time and effort.
Just by sheer economy of scale, we have a $10 Android phone without any Google
intervention. The Huawei U8150 IDEOS ended up becoming a $60AUD locked prepaid
/ $99AUD off contract phone in Australia at the end of 2011.

~~~
sremani
Android One was a Corporate strategy, to make sure Windows Phone does not grow
as a low-end alternative, and Android getting squeezed from Top and bottom.
For what it is worth, I would deem it as successful.

------
Animats
OK, here's the real $9 computer. Screen, USB port, TV cameras, audio, storage,
WiFi, Bluetooth, and GSM, all in a nice little package. This could replace the
Raspberry Pi in many applications. What does it take to just use it as a
computer, with no cell phone account?

~~~
nickpsecurity
Call me crazy, but I keep wondering about the subversion risk of stuff like
this. Widespread deployment due to cost, what's needed for espionage included,
and always from a country involved in it. Been concerned about the possibility
since a HW expert told me most of world's smartphones come from about five or
six companies. Talk about concentration of power and opportunity.

I encourage people to spend a bit more on various vendors and encourage what
little diversity we can. Not sure what to do otherwise aside from not carrying
a mobile.

------
ebbv
This headline has gotten this a lot of attention, but why? The original iPhone
came out 7 years ago. A computer (and phones are small computers) with specs
that outdated are really only priced based on materials cost.

------
yitchelle
Wow, this phone is so cheap, you could buy a few of them just experimentation
without worrying if you would let the smoke inside it escape.

Anyone got good project ideas for a lazy weekend? I was thinking of a Sonos
replacement.

~~~
morganvachon
Buying it at $10 just to harvest the touch screen, battery, and charger is
profit.

------
jusben1369
Did someone just buy old stock from LG (save them from recycling) and do a one
time deal? Or if this a new permanent thing?

------
AdmiralAsshat
Has anyone been able to play with the phone and see if the bootloader is
locked? If one could install Cyanogenmod on the thing, they could potentially
keep the phone up-to-date beyond 4.4, provided that someone's willing to
develop for the device.

I also can't figure out who the carrier on this phone is.

~~~
morganvachon
> _Has anyone been able to play with the phone and see if the bootloader is
> locked?_

I haven't, but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it's locked. Even if it
could be unlocked easily, it's not likely you'll find anyone developing for
it. It's not listed on the XDA Developers website, which is the authority on
Android phone hacking.

> _I also can 't figure out who the carrier on this phone is._

It's in the first line of the article:

"Walmart is now selling a _TracFone-branded_ LG smartphone that costs $9.82
(it also ships free if your online order total tops $50)."

TracFone is one of the many brands of conglomerate América Móvil, and sister
brand of Walmart-sold Net10 Wireless and Straight Talk Wireless. They are
MVNOs, leasing spectrum and bands from the major US carriers; I've used
Straight Talk in the past on both AT&T's and T-Mobile USA's networks. At one
time TracFone was Sprint PCS only, but I believe you can get TracFone devices
that use any of the major carrier networks now.

------
sopooneo
One laptop per child? No, one phone.

And the government won't pay, they'll be scavenged out of the trash.

------
shade23
As a dev,this interests me too.I just like buying low end phones to figure out
their cost reduction/optimization techniques and figuring out how normal apps
would __survive __on them. Although ,I think comparing it to the first iPhone
is unfair.

------
Tepix
Can I use this phone with any SIM card? Or is it locked to a particular
carrier/network?

~~~
ck2
Most of these phones are tracfone, so it is locked to one of their mvnos,
depending on your market.

at&t mvno for gsm (usually) and verizon mvno for cdma markets

------
ctulek
Reminds me [https://medium.com/matter/shitphone-a-love-
story-a44e6643480...](https://medium.com/matter/shitphone-a-love-
story-a44e66434807)

------
petersouth
I bought one of these for my little kid to play with. Does anyone know of a
way to make it so he can't dial 911 or disable the call capability?

~~~
DanBC
Put it in airplane mode?

------
hatsunearu
Pretty sure these devices don't work unless you use the correct carrier's SIM
card--like, they refuse to boot.

~~~
peterwwillis
Why would you think that? There's no special ROM that prevents Android from
loading if the carrier's sim card isn't loaded. It should still work
regardless of sim. Edit: It's CDMA, and it would have to identify a network
before booting, which isn't going to happen; this phone should work fine on
wifi without a carrier plan. Question is, did they disable the wifi or GPS the
way some similar AT&T phones did?

~~~
hatsunearu
Vendor lock-out.

And also because I saw Dave Jones do a teardown of one of these things. He
tried turning it on with no SIM and it said "please insert SIM" instead of
booting to Android.

------
bechampion
i love to see things like this.

~~~
listic
That's exactly what _upvote_ button is for.

------
rey12rey
Out of stock unfortunately.

------
h_o
Does anyone know if there is anything like this available in Europe?

Bonus points for Ireland/UK related

Appreciate it!

------
hayksaakian
It uses android 4.4 instead of 5.x or 6.0

that's too bad :(

~~~
oneweekwonder
At least 4.4 supports chrome webview usb debugging

~~~
sunnyps
So does chrome (and android webview which is now based on chrome) on lollipop
and above. Where did you get the idea that it wasn't? Go to chrome://inspect
on your desktop, you need to have a Chrome version on your desktop that's
compatible with the chrome/webview version on your android device, usually
this means having the same or higher version number on your desktop.

Kitkat marked the transition of android webview to be based on chrome but it
wasn't made updateable.

Lollipop upwards have an updateable android webview which tracks the latest
chrome version and isn't very far behind usually.

~~~
oneweekwonder
Sorry a bit of a late reply, your right.

I should have been more clear mentioning from 4.4 onwards you can debug a
webview in a app(for all those hybrid apps).

------
pmorici
Why is this news? It's only $10 because it is locked to the tracfone network
and the $10 price is subsidized by their rate plans just like the 'free'
iphone on at&t is subsidized. The only difference is that there is no contract
requiring you to buy 2 years of service.

------
melling
It's great when people observe what hundreds of millions of consumers buying a
product on a regular cycle will do to a market.

So the big takeaway isn't that you can get a cheap mp3 player, it's that
technology will rapidly improve and decrease in price once it hits the
mainstream. Now if we could only applie this to consumer robotics, genetics,
or renewable energy.

------
k__
Strange comparison. The iPhone is 8 years old.

But it wasn't really top notch back in the days either. I had a
Droid/Milestone and the iPhone just looked and felt like some plastic garbage
in comparison to it. It took the Apple til the iPhone 4 it became a real gem
and now it seems that they're going back.

~~~
ptaipale
At 2 % of the price of the original iPhone, I do think this is somewhat
remarkable. Just consider how much is left to the device manufacturing after
cost of customer service at sales, logistics, etc.

