
Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect - tlarkworthy
https://www.fastcodesign.com/90147868/exclusive-microsoft-has-stopped-manufacturing-the-kinect
======
robotresearcher
The Kinect was a real boon for robotics research. A depth camera that worked
pretty well, with skeleton extraction and directional audio? And the price is
what!? My lab still uses a first gen Kinect regularly.

Thanks to Jamie Shotton and the team for a sensor that made a difference to an
incidental community.

[https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/body-part-
rec...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/video/body-part-recognition-
and-the-development-of-kinect/)

~~~
ocdtrekkie
This is actually a reason I am kind of surprised to see Microsoft just shut
this down outright. Even as a much more limited run product, Kinect has so
many possibilities in robotics and research, and it intersects with the VR/AR
developments today.

~~~
peterlk
I was talking to someone 3 days ago about how his company has been hoarding
Kinects because they knew this day was coming.

I think robotics research is probably a reason why they're discontinuing it.
Why support something that only exists outside the walled garden? Maybe not
the only reason, but a reason. The device probably isn't generating profits,
and the value gain on top of that is missing because the gaming community has
abandoned it.

~~~
cryptoz
Similar deal as Sony removing PS3 features after launch: people found a
product they loved, for reasons not envisioned by Sony, who was then hell-bent
on shutting it down.

Even though it seems like Sony's interest to foster a community of high-tech
nerds interested in AI and parallel processing, and even though it seems like
it's Microsoft's interest in fostering a community of robotics and computer
vision nerds, it turns out the Giant Corporations need lock-down control on
products and have no long-term vision for supporting ecosystems or
communities.

~~~
emodendroket
The main reason Sony killed OtherOS was that they began to think it could be
used to circumvent copy protection for games. In Kinect's case I'm guessing
the pricing was set at least in part with the idea that the games would make
up for low-to-negative profit margins.

~~~
freeloop3
I'm not so sure it was so cut and dried as that. The air force was using them
to create a supercomputer using other-OS and Sony was selling it as a loss.

I think they were worried about people buying them up and not purchasing
games.

~~~
icefo
A professor in my college also did exactly this:
[https://lacal.epfl.ch/112bit_prime](https://lacal.epfl.ch/112bit_prime)

They used about 200ps3 to find some prime number (cryptography related)

------
larrik
This makes me sad, because my experience with my own Kinect (360) was very
much a "this could be awesome if it wasn't burdened with stupid crap".

I bought it for my kids. Turns out, the Kinect is awful for kids. They were
far too little for the Kinect to properly see them, and the motions to
actually use it were super fussy. Then if I walked in to try to help them, the
Kinect would freak out that there was a new person in view. The dog walking by
would mess it up as well.

Basically, you would need a large dedicated room for the stupid thing, and you
would need to be at least 8 or so to have a chance at using it properly. Then
the games were meh.

But it could have been so much better.

~~~
WorldMaker
If you had a large enough dedicated room (I used most of a basement once, with
a lot of setup work to give the Kinect the view of just about the whole room)
and the right games (some games were less fiddly if multiple people/gestures
were recognized that others [1]; though a lot of the management of it is still
taking turns and having patience) it was sort of magic to watch particularly
young kids play with the Kinect.

Especially then it seemed like a glimpse into a future of where the technology
could go, and though that magic was sometimes finicky, it was still magic when
it worked.

[1] Kinectimals (essentially a "cat petting" simulator) I recall particularly
launching for my youngest cousins to enjoy. There were others, but that's the
first to mind; this was a couple years back at a holiday party where most of
this happened.

~~~
dawnerd
Speaking of magic, universal uses Kinect for Harry Potter in Knockturn Alley.
Was surprised to see a simple Kinect running it (hard to see but it’s in a box
to the left of the skeleton magic wand experience).

~~~
WorldMaker
The Kinect has done wonders for amusement park and museum efforts. At this
point I'm more surprised when those sorts of museum and amusement projects
aren't using a Kinect. (...and more often than that it's simply because an old
expensive system hasn't broken yet, but soon as it breaks you expect it to be
replaced with a Kinect.)

For that reason, the commodification of the Kinect really has been a boon for
science and entertainment. There are some commodity Kinect knock-offs out
there (Intel's cameras and sensors come to mind), but selling millions of
Kinects means that they will probably stay important to museum projects.

The secondary market will probably remain flooded with Kinects for a while,
but maybe (hopefully) by the time it becomes hard to get a decent priced
Kinect for such cool little projects there will be a Kinect 3 or similar
ready. (Or Microsoft will sell the Kinect brand to a hardware manufacturer.)

~~~
Rebelgecko
I went to a few museums last week on vacation. I was surprised to see how
ubiquitous the Kinect was - almost every new-ish exhibit had something
interactive that made use of the Kinect. Just when I was thinking about how
much fun it would be to get one to play with, they killed it :(

~~~
soundwave106
It will be interesting if Microsoft quietly makes a "Kinect" platform that
targets businesses / museums / etc. for this exact reason. (Basically, going
the Google Glass route of discontinuing a consumer "flop" that still ends up
being utilized, and produced, on the B2B end).

------
dalfonso
One thing that hasn't been mentioned: Kinect was Microsoft's reaction to Wii's
success.

I worked at Microsoft when the first Kinect came out. I spoke with a few
members of that team (non-engineers). My question was very clear -- are you
expecting this to takeover for controller based gaming? I don't recall all the
responses, but I think the overall sentiment was along the lines of "No, but
it might", whereas my thoughts were along the lines of it absolutely will not,
this is such a gimmick. I'm not a gamer at all, but I used to be in college.
When I want to game, I plop down on my couch and mash on the controller. If I
wanted to jump around and flail my arms, I'd go to the gym or play some pickup
basketball.

I think there was (maybe is) a disconnect between Microsoft and hardcore
gamers. Kinect and Xbox One's initial non-gaming features were an attempt to
take Xbox "mainstream". Stop it. Appeal to the core demographic. To their
credit, it seems like they've been doing that now.

~~~
tchock23
This is my concern with VR not taking off with the mainstream. Many gamers
(myself included) want to plop down on the couch and not move around much.
Many of the VR experiences coming out require movement, not to mention the
initial effort to put on the headset.

I'm a huge proponent of VR (backer #238 of the Rift on Kickstarter), but I
worry VR headsets will end up in the dustbin with the Kinect for this very
reason...

~~~
make3
vr has larger problems. mainly, the nausea thing: your character can't
accelerate at all without giving you really unpleasant nausea. The strength of
that nausea isn't being exaggerated. That takes out all games that you would
think are good ideas for vr, like sports games, fighter jet games, .. first
person shooters where your character walks around.. basically first person
anything where your character isn't always moving at constant speed or
teleporting is ruled out. It's a shame.. but it's really how it is

~~~
agar
Have you actually played VR games recently?

The most popular games are flight simulators and first person shooters where
people walk around (Elite Dangerous, Eve: Valkyrie, FSX, Onward, Pavlov, From
Other Suns). The best games released, Lone Echo and Echo Arena, take place in
zero-gravity environments with highly non-constant speed and no teleportation.

Any game that gets released without joystick/trackpad locomotion will get a
flood of angry message board postings.

Nausea is certainly a concern, but huge strides have been made in addressing
it for the vast majority of players.

------
cwyers
I bought the original Kinect, and I bought an Xbox One after the Kinect was no
longer mandatory but I later bought a separate Kinect for it. It has moments
of transcendence and a lot of failures between those moments. There's a
handful of games where the Kinect sensor really makes sense, and a lot of
games where it was shoehorned in and wasn't fun. The biggest problem is that
it requires a _lot_ of space. It's a pain to set up, and often a working setup
doesn't work for the rest of your life, so you have to rearrange furniture
every time you want to use it. It's an interesting piece of tech, but it never
really got to be easy enough to use to be what Microsoft wanted it to be.

~~~
chaostheory
Another problem is the failure rate and time to failure. Even when we didn't
use it often, my unit failed in about 6-8 months. My replacement unit failed
in less than 6 months. MS refused to send me a replacement for the 2nd unit.
It was a missed opportunity because Kinect was there much earlier than Amazon
Echo. MS just wasn't as committed to improving it.

~~~
ballenf
Mine turns itself off and back on every 10-30 minutes of use. Very annoying,
but too expensive and too little use to justify replacing out of warranty.

------
Bjorkbat
This is a shame. I mean, yeah, it was a pretty awkward gaming accessory, but
outside the context of gaming people were doing some pretty fun things with
it. A powerful sensor at a ridiculously cheap cost that you could use to
create amazing things, provided of course your imagination wasn't weighed down
by the latest dumb tech trend. That last statement is just as true now as it
was when the Kinect originally came out.

Gives me some strange feels about the current state of the tech economy. The
Kinect is being retired at the same time Amazon and Google are caught up in a
dumb contest to see who can produce the best hockey-puck-sized speaker that
can add items to your shopping list. As overwhelmingly large as tech giants
like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Apple are, they seem mostly resigned to
following trends, as opposed to creating new ones.

Don't forget, smartwatches originated from a highly successful Kickstarter
campaign. Same can be said for VR. Bitcoin, and blockchain by extension,
originated from a white paper published by someone who's still to this day a
complete mystery.

Tech giants are very much capable of generating cash, but are damned by their
inability to create gold.

~~~
squarefoot
"A powerful sensor at a ridiculously cheap cost that you could use to create
amazing things, provided of course your imagination wasn't weighed down by the
latest dumb tech trend"

This. And thanks to software/hardware patents, the technology will die with
the product, or remain dormant until the owner will either decide to make
something else with it or (not holding my breath) release it under a FOSS
license. In the meantime, like always, landfills in the 3rd world will be
inundated by more hardware which could be still perfectly useable if its life
didn't depend on the wishes of a single company.

~~~
derefr
There already is something else “like” it: the front-facing camera in the
iPhone X.

On one hand, you could see this as fooling around with Kinect tech now
requiring a $1000 investment in an iPhone. (Or buying a Kinect used; there are
still plenty on the market.)

On the other hand, you could believe in the inevitability of Shenzhen to take
the probably $3 part Apple has designed, stick it into a little housing with a
micro controller, and commoditize “Kinect Minis” within the year. :)

~~~
nightski
Not really even close. While two cameras is nice, is definitely not the same
as the structured light approach in the Kinect.

~~~
ansgri
FYI, front camera in X uses structural light, while Kinect 2 uses a more
modern time-of-flight (ToF) technology, which delivers better depth
resolution.

From [https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/](https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/):

"Face ID is enabled by the TrueDepth camera and is simple to set up. It
projects and analyzes more than 30,000 invisible dots to create a precise
depth map of your face."

~~~
kurthr
Note that the depth resolution they are desscribing is 160x160=30,000, which
is really standard structured light. Put a 1Mpix camera behind it and you can
interpolate ~6 pixels in between to estimate depth/slope.

------
JoeDaDude
Most unfortunate. I was hoping to see the technology applied to VR. One of my
complaints/observations about VR is that you are a disembodied viewpoint in
the VR environment. Something like a Kinect mocap system would add bodily
presence in the VR environment.

~~~
lostgame
>> Something like a Kinect mocap system would add bodily presence in the VR
environment.

I personally spearheaded a couple of projects to make it work with the Vive in
this way.

Unfortunately, the Kinect's tendency to screw up leg motion, SDK's and API's
that read like an old grimoire of Black Magick and worked about just as well,
as well as it's proprietary skeleton detection drivers, which prevented me
from getting in and fixing a lot of these issues, which caused the company I
worked for to drop it completely.

a focus on 'developers developers developers' could've really saved this
thing.

~~~
Qworg
Fixing the skeletonization would be a hard lift - it is implemented in a
random decision forest that's been trained with 10k+ hours of data.

------
lostgame
Kinect was a phenomenal piece of technology for a lot of my highly
experimental AR stuff.

However, a lack of MacOS support, terrible drivers for Windows that worked
about half the time with my Unity rig, non-native Unity support, et al, really
messed up a lot of the longer-term plans I had for it, and caused it to not be
reliable enough to ever use in a production environment.

The developers make or break a piece of hardware, and while I get that it was
mainly an XBOX device, when it failed to make a serious splash there, they
could've saved the hardware by working with its high-demand for a ton of
different high-tech solutions and provided consistently better SDK's and
API's.

Good riddance, because hopefully we'll get something better. Shame, because
Microsoft really had a product that spoke to higher-end developers and filled
a phenomenal void for a low-cost alternative to brutally high-cost motion
capture and natural interaction systems.

Hopefully the structure sensor [
[https://store.structure.io/store](https://store.structure.io/store) ] can
help to fill this void.

In the meantime, I'm guessing it means that the software support isn't going
to get any better. :(

~~~
philnelson
Structure Sensor supports OpenNI 2 on Linux, Mac, Windows, and our own
Structure SDK on iOS. It oughta do anything you could want from a Kinect and a
bit more.

~~~
Qworg
How's the skeletonization these days? Still using NiTE?

------
prophesi
It's a magnificent device for tinkerers. My workplace picked up a few Kinects
when we needed a quick & cheap motion capture solution to animate a few
characters in our Unity game. We were quite impressed by how well it did; it
could even do facial capture! We still had to hand-tune some of the keyframes,
but it saved us countless hours of animating.

After getting all of our motion capture done, we wanted to see what else we
could do with it. I stumbled across a [1]repo from a few years ago that live-
streams the depth data as a point cloud system in the browser. So we cleaned
up the code, set up a kinect to point at our office entrance, and now have it
live-streaming in the header of our [2]website! It's a bit too heavy on
mobile, so we're currently working on a fallback.

[1] [https://github.com/jawj/websocket-
kinect](https://github.com/jawj/websocket-kinect)

[2] [https://l2d.co/](https://l2d.co/)

------
cattleprodigy
My favorite Kinect art installation:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD7gk2kHP3g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD7gk2kHP3g)

~~~
skeletonjelly
We were going to do this for a big new hospital in Melbourne but the guy
running the project was a jerk and didn't go with us.

It's a great idea for kids hospitals!

------
phdsolutions
We built a commercially viable product with the 2nd generation Kinect that
calculates cubic dimensions of packages for the Transportation/Logistics
industry. As others have already stated, the sensor capabilities at the price
point offered are unbeatable.

For context: our device is capable of measuring the dimensions to a 5mm
accuracy on cuboidal (box-shaped) objects sized between 60mm and 1200mm
(approx 2.4" to 48")

The device has passed certification by some pretty rigid government bodies in
North America that spent a significant amount of time evaluating it to ensure
it measures correctly ALL the time.

Of course we always knew this day would come eventually, but it kinda sucks
that it had to be today though. Time to buy up those surplus refurbs I
suppose..

------
rsp1984
What many don't know: The exact chips and technology behind the Kinect v1 (as
developed by PrimeSense) are still in use today in many products:

We (that is -- shameless plug -- my company DotProduct) combine a Primesense
Carmine sensor (basically a smaller version of the Kinect) with an Android
tablet and our software to create a self-contained portable 3D scanner
(www.dotproduct3d.com).

Occipital has created their own version of the sensor which they call the
"Structure" sensor, but it's still based on Kinect/PrimeSense tech
(www.structure.io).

Matterport (a YC company) is using the tech in a tripod based scanner to
create 3D interior walkthroughs (www.matterport.com).

The reason these sensors are still in use is largely that PrimeSense (at the
time they released the Kinect) was technologically about 7 years ahead of
every other 3D camera manufacturer in the market. Only very recently we're
starting to see sensors that rival the Kinect/Carmine in terms of overall
quality.

~~~
nh2
> Only very recently we're starting to see sensors that rival the
> Kinect/Carmine in terms of overall quality.

Can you make an example of such alternatives?

Are they barebones sensors, or full hardware a consumer can buy?

~~~
gxh8N
Doesn't answer your question directly, but I would assume that an example is
the new iPhone X face unlock sensor, since PrimeSense was acquired by Apple.

------
shravj
I knew this was coming for the past few months as the supply was dwindling and
resellers were selling them for $45 (half of MSRP). Pretty disappointing since
I enjoyed working with these for a project. Have to find an alternative now
going forward.

------
gerdesj
"Launched in 2010 with a $500 million marketing campaign"

I am very, very, far from being a MS apologist but I think that dropping
Kinect is a really stupid idea, strategically.

MS have dropped quite a few balls recently and this is another one. No doubt
in the boardroom this will be an obvious slash to balance the books but it is
a bloody stupid idea when you look a bit wider.

This thing was/is a bit of a game changer - not really new, per se, but very
useful in quite a few areas. Quietly, many groups in many areas of research
and development have used this thing to do things that border on sci fi.

I hope Kinect is dropped somewhere else - it is just good enough to work well.

~~~
burnte
Kinect is the same thing today that touch screens were in the 80s; touted as a
revolution that will take over everywhere, then people realize sitting there
waving your arms for yours is not enjoyable, and then it finds a niche and
stabilizes at a much smaller size than everyone expected.

------
darrylb42
When I had an apartment I didn't buy one because I had no room. Now I have a
house the xbox one S needed special pricey cables, and there were no games. So
I never bought one. I really like the idea of the Kinect but I couldn't use it
when it was big.

------
feelin_googley
Most interesting bit of Kinect history, IMO, omitted by the article:
[https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373107,00.asp](https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373107,00.asp)

~~~
wildpeaks
Especially as it was a sharp contrast to the history of the Wiimote, where
Nintendo had had the opposite reaction and tried to lock DIY makers out once
they realized people were using it for unintended purposes.

I'm glad Microsoft was smarter about this, it enabled a lot of otherwise
costly to develop ideas to emerge at the time and the gaming use of the Kinect
is almost anecdotal in retrospect.

------
sotojuan
Reliance on Kinect and always online killed the Xbox One. Sure, they
backpedaled but it was too late. They really messed up.

~~~
cwyers
There's nothing dead about the Xbox One. Yes, the PS4 outsells it. But most
games releases are on both systems, and Microsoft comes through with some
solid exclusives ever year. I have an Xbox One and a PS4, and with games that
come out on both systems, I play those on the Xbox One because Sony's UI is
frustrating to me and it just seems like the software is less polished.

~~~
coding123
I had the 360 and finally broke down a long time ago to get the PS3 for a few
games that were exclusive at the time. I was a PS hater for most of my adult
console life. Then I started to realize I was paying Microsoft a yearly fee
for a system I already bought and PS wasn't asking anything for the same
services. The next system I bought was the PS4. There was some FUD about PS4
to start charging the same way XBox does, but alas, I can play my Call of Duty
games ONLINE without paying Sony a cent per year. I believe the yearly
subscription killed the Xbox.

~~~
cwyers
What do you mean, FUD? Sony's own website pretty clearly lays out that online
multiplayer is a feature reserved for PS+ subscribers.

[https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-
library/play...](https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-
library/playstation-plus/playstation-plus/playstation-plus-membership-and-
playstation-4-online-play/)

------
lowbloodsugar
> "Why press a button to duck, when you can just duck?"

Why sit on your arse and turn a steering wheel when you can just run forty
miles to work?

When someone says "Why do X when you can just do Y?" its usually because "just
doing Y" is simpler or easier. Turns out that ducking is neither simpler, nor
easier.

~~~
ksk
But it is simpler and easier. You don't have to learn the controls, and
actions you know and are familiar with translate exactly into game-space. That
sort of game interface can be fun for a certain segment/genre. People still
enjoy playing on the Wii. I would concede that its not mainstream, but who
knows, maybe we just need to make the right game.

------
jwilliams
Sad to see this - I recently talked to a startup that was using Kinect for at-
home physical therapy. By no means a replacement for PT, but really a huge
opportunity for people that didn't have regular/sufficient access to therapy.
Hopefully something equivalent can cut through.

------
rbanffy
I remember the Milo demo. The mix of overpromise and under-delivery is
astonishingly consistent.

~~~
grabcocque
There was a, um, Molyneux effect to consider there too.

~~~
reificator
I'm glad I didn't know who Molyneux was when I first played Fable, because I
had a great time.

------
wiseleo
This is sad news.

I love playing dance games with Kinect. The "Dance Central" series is brutally
accurate in its judging. I remember seeing a demo of Project Natal, which was
Kinect's codename. It deeply impressed me because it looked like technology
from the future.

In fact, I bought an Xbox 360 instead of Xbox One because I wanted to play
those specific games and they like other original Kinect titles are only
supported on the 360 Platform.

------
Nanite
Matterport's camera system, a low cost alternative for laser based systems ,
for 3d mapping interiors, was originally based on a kinect hack back in 2010.
Not sure where they are getting their current sensors, but they're doing quite
well, the underlying technology is definitly not dead.

[https://matterport.com/pro2-3d-camera/](https://matterport.com/pro2-3d-camera/)

------
burntrelish1273
Ah, the Kinect... platform for the first Matterport revision. (Matt B. is so
next-level _ridiculously_ creative, Adam Savage would tip his fedora.)
Matterport is a really neat mesh/texture capture and stitching platform that I
only saw rough _demos_ run based on multiple fixed CCTVs to do forensic 3D
scene reconstruction from UC Davis researchers some years before.

Also, a first-hand story for this category:

Once upon a time, next door to my grandparents house in SJ/Los Gatos region,
there lived a renter... not any renter, but a corporate/PhD/engineer whom quit
his job to start a startup. After some casual conversation, he mentioned he
was working on then something stealth-mode involving machine vision and 3D
screen interfacing (think Kinect meets Wii controllers). Many Maybachs, Merc
S-series and Aston Martins came by to due-diligence and meet said
entrepreneur's startup, team and tech at this rental 3-BD with a dedicated
meeting room near Hwy 85. The odd thing was, I never heard what happened to
him and has baby. That is until I ran into someone whom did some work for him
several years later. (The Valley is a _very_ small place; heck, yours truly
toured Woz'es and coworker's homes under construction when I was like 7, but I
was more interested in the steep road (Harwood IIRC) out front for high-speed
skateboarding/bicycling.)

Anyhow, it turns out, the night before the demo, the CEO made a source code
change or something that broke the build. And, there weren't backups because
they weren't using a (D)VCS. (Ouch.) I think it was acquired for an
"undisclosed sum" for IP and wound down IIRC. What sucks is having to go back
to work, kind of a tech "bar closing walk-of-shame," but there's always next
time.

------
mtgx
Is there a "Microsoft product graveyard" website we can check out, too?

------
amigoingtodie
I just bought and returned two used Kinects from gamestop. They were $28 each.

Tried to use the native Windows 10 3-d scanning program with both and hotrible
results. It was nothing like the MS demo footage.

The color image would not map properly to the point-cloud. The second camera
was better, but still 'off'.

I wonder how reliable the miniaturized Apple version will be, particularly
being knocked around.

------
housel
Orbbec Astra ([https://orbbec3d.com/product-
astra/](https://orbbec3d.com/product-astra/)) is still a viable option for
applications (such as robotics) that need an RGBD camera. The body-tracking
SDK is still in beta at the moment.

------
macspoofing
Big disappointment. In an age of Echo, and Google Home, I can't understand how
Microsoft couldn't make Kinect work.

Also, whatever you may think of Kinect, at least they tried something
different. The new XboxOne X is just a spec bump. No attempt at innovating any
other aspect of the console.

------
nikolay
Really? You kill a product right after Apple released something similar on
iPhone and glories it?

~~~
grzm
What Apple product/tech are you thinking of? The two off the top of my head
are FaceID and ARKit, and both seem quite a stretch to me. I feel like I’m
missing something obvious.

~~~
wmkn
Years ago Apple bought the company, PrimeSense, that developed the technology
for the first generation Kinect (the one based on IR structured light). From
the description Apple gave of FaceID during the keynote I'm pretty certain
that FaceID is pretty much Kinect in an iPhone.

Of course the application of it is totally different.

~~~
grzm
I can see that part, which is why I mentioned FaceID. I just have a hard time
seeing it as comparable with respect to the range of the Kinect both in
distance and application, as you point out. That’s what motivated my original
comment.

Are you aware of anything to the contrary? Definitely interested in learning
more if so, given the Kinect is going away. I can also see Apple potentially
doing more with this in the future, though they’re not there yet.

It seems more like Microsoft hasn’t been interested in promoting the Kinect
(it’s been out for years) or applying the tech elsewhere, and they’re just
shutting it down, the timing being coincidental.

------
JaRail
I think this speaks to a change in direction to VR/AR systems. It seems pretty
clear that long-term tracking solutions will include face/body tracking.
Oculus hopes their camera-based tracking can be extended to track full bodies
and arbitrary objects. Headsets are getting eye-tracking for foveated
rendering.

I'll miss the kinect but it doesn't play nice with newer tracking systems.
They confuse each other. That makes it difficult to use in combination with a
Vive. I'm guessing they aren't very reliable multi-camera systems either.
Unlike the Vive, they don't have a timing mechanism to avoid confusing each
other.

------
busterarm
I wish the USB adapter weren't also $40.

I've wanted one for a while for computer vision projects and $40-50 is a
fantastic price. Instead I'm looking at maybe getting a 360 Kinect (Certified
Refurbished) at $40 and $10 for the usb adapter.

------
donatj
I still love my Kinect. It came out at the end of the 360's lifetime, so I
waited for the Xbox One to get one which was sadly a mistake. Games supporting
Kinect on Xbox One are limited to say the least.

I am still however enamored with the automatic login. It sees me all the way
across the room and logs me in. It's wonderful.

It used to work __even better __with the first gen controllers which had
identifier IR lights in them. My friend and I could swap controllers and
continue to play the same side of the screen. It was truly magical. The gen 2
"S" controllers however eliminated the IR lights.

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Thetawaves
Is there anything else that fills the voice recognition "xbox watch netflix"
"xbox volume up" space?

Going back to a physical remote feels like I just took a step back in time.

~~~
superbaconman
You can use the headset with Cortana for some things, though I'm not sure what
all it can do.

~~~
gxh8N
Everything that you could do with Kinect + most Cortana features.

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eaguyhn
This was pretty cool -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qhXQ_1CQjg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qhXQ_1CQjg)

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wolco
Perhaps they were early. I'm still using my wii daily.

~~~
eric_h
Really? The original Wii? What do you play?

~~~
wolco
Excite bots and trackmania are great racing games. Also the wii fitness and
related sport games.

Original broke but I got a red one to replace it.

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Dowwie
Hey Microsoft. Why not open source the whole enchilada?

~~~
echan00
Stopping manufacturing doesn't mean they don't value the IP. They spent a
whole lot of money on this technology!

~~~
tinus_hn
Better let it safely collect dust in a very dark cupboard!

~~~
sp332
The (updated) article points out that they're still using this stuff in
Hololens, Windows Hello, and other gesture-control stuff. I think some of it
has made it to the various VR headsets that are coming out for Windows this
month.

~~~
WorldMaker
Also, stopping manufacturing doesn't mean they couldn't restart manufacturing
if a demand or an application showed up. The updated article also mentions
that the secondary markets are flooded with Kinect v2s for half retail price
($45), which is a pretty good reason to stop manufacturing if the demand isn't
there.

It also doesn't preclude Microsoft building a Kinect v3 in the future. (It
doesn't even preclude Microsoft building a Kinect v3 in secret in the
present.)

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mattmattmatt
Was really hoping to see more non-xbox kinect uses over the years. More art
installations, more retail, more whatever. Sad to see it go.

~~~
Qworg
You'll find that Kinects are powering far more exhibits and retail art
projects than you'd know.

~~~
mattmattmatt
Totally agree and recognize that. But a bummer to see it disappear into the
background (and thus get discontinued as a result).

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skizm
I assume they were selling this under cost in order to sell more games
(software) which is where they make most of their money. Selling it as a
standalone piece of tech would probably require a price hike ultimately making
it less appealing and at the end of they day they probably projected they
wouldn't move enough units to make it worth it.

------
Qworg
I'm sad to see this day arrive, even though the community knew the writing was
on the wall. As the first truly affordable, mass market depth sensor, it was a
shame it couldn't get a second life as a standalone product.

It also looks like I'm not going to sell any more books. ;)

------
cmsonger
I wonder what the "followon product" discussions were like and what they said
"no" to as a next generation.

I mean this seems like an idea whose time will come. What could they have
built if they were targeting a product to release before Christmas?

------
bitmapbrother
I've lost track on how many consumer products Microsoft has abandoned over the
years. Once they kill their Xbox and Surface lines their Enterprise transition
will be complete.

------
poyu
This is quite sad, seeing so many amazing hacked together project that uses
the Kinect. I bought a fairly new one at thrift shop for only $15 dollar (!!)
a few weeks back.

------
ripkinect
What a shame! If anybody in the Bay Area needs a Kinect for their projects, I
have some extra Kinect 360 and Kinect 4 Windows units available..

------
wintorez
Looks like Microsoft is on a killing spree these days.

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_jdams
Sad about the Kinect, but don't interpret this as Microsoft/Xbox failing. They
are actually doing a fantastic job with the Xbox brand. The X (scorpio) is
launching soon, and they are releasing a bunch of older titles into their
ever-expanding backwards compatibility library. In addition, developers are
pushing out graphics/performance update patches for the popular titles on the
X, and recently overhauled the Xbox UI - it is extremely snappy now and
customizable.

------
mcemilg
There are lots of university projects developing with this device. This is
very sad decision for them. I hope it will back soon.

------
binthere
It is still very useful for an affordable mocap solution. I recommend buying
one now if you ever want to do it.

------
FussyZeus
I'm somewhat confused, are they talking about just the 360 Kinect or the
current ones too?

~~~
skeletonjelly
v1 (round corners) which was for the 360 and v2 (squared edges) for the One

------
coverband
IMHO, Kinect is still the best when it comes to sports, exercise, and dance
simulation games.

------
middle1
Giving vote +1. It was time to switch already.

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enuamah
Well they have VR now so it makes sense.

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jlebrech
they should make a kinect for pc/mac

~~~
partiallypro
You can use the Kinect on PC.

~~~
jlebrech
it should be better marketed for PC, for example in the vein of google home or
amazon echo.

you could have a little machine that motivates you to do a workout for
example, that can also connect to a pc for more advanced apps.

------
CrankyBear
They were still building those things!?

------
dang
Url changed from [https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/16542870/microsoft-
kinec...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/25/16542870/microsoft-kinect-dead-
stop-manufacturing), which points to this.

------
shinners
Another gaming fad gone by the wayside. Thats too bad. I thought this had
potential to be further developed upon.

