
Reducing isolation at work is good for business - nether
https://hbr.org/cover-story/2017/09/work-and-the-loneliness-epidemic
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zebrafish
I took a 15-20% pay cut to move to a town that had college and high school
friends. I missed out on a lot of the real bleeding edge type technical
challenges that SV has and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills trying to drive
change in our organization. However, I never have a problem unwinding after
work and am far from burnout. Having this support structure here is probably
worth that 15-20%.

Edit: I should note that I really hate mixing personal & work and that I have
very few 'friendships' in the workplace that I take outside of work.

~~~
overcast
I did the same, stayed in Upstate New York after college, my commute is 5
minutes, traffic is low, zero stress, travel the world on company money, tons
of good food, and drinks, I go home for lunch. I think about what I "missed"
going to the west coast grind, but now that I'm older, I realize I favor low
stress / getting plenty of sleep, over working long hours and long commutes to
work on bigger tech. Plus this affords me the time to work on all of my side
projects, which is what really gives me pleasure. I don't think I'll regret in
my final days, that I wasn't able to work more for someone else.

The ONLY caveat I can think of, is if I was offered something very unique.
Something progressing humanity. But slaving away for another X for X, isn't
going to happen.

~~~
argyleaf
Totally hear you.

I'm living in a small college-town-adjacent city in rural New England and
though I occasionally have pangs of desire for the SV life of some college
friends, working for an established company that is not a historic software
powerhouse makes stress super manageable, makes me a big fish in a small pond,
gives me time to hack on side projects, and opportunity to perfect my hobbies
(wood-fired pottery, cooking, and yoga). I took what feels like a big pay cut
but cost of living compared to BOS, SV, SEA, or NYC at least zeros that out.

Of course there are problems where adopting technologies/best-practices,
hiring a team, or speed of development is like pushing molasses up a sand
dune, but leaving that at the door at the end of the day is worth it to me.

Will that balance change? Who knows. The future is hard to predict, but right
now it makes a lot of sense to me.

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EZ-E
Something I noticed, is that young people commonly suffer from loneliness when
making the transition from student life to working life.

Leaving the friends from student life... And not really able to make
meaningful friends during working life. I had several people talking to me
about this

Now, I have no idea whether it is a recent thing or not.

~~~
Steve44
I think that people these days are not as comfortable with being on their own
as they were years ago. I grew up in the 1970s and 80s and as we weren't
continually interconnected with everyone else we spent a fair amount on time
on our own. You became accustomed to planning ahead, travelling on your own to
meet your friends with no communication, if they weren't there you either went
home again or tried someone else's house.

There were also, I think, more people into hobbies such as stamp collecting
and model making. They were fairly solitary for much of the time.

I've nothing scientific behind this but it seems to fit with what I see, we
don't feel lonely and lost if we don't have continual stimulation.

~~~
Santosh83
Very true, as someone who grew up in the 80s and mid-90s, we usually met
"friends" for an hour or so in a day and the rest of it was spent with
solitary pursuits and perhaps with family. These days we're "connected" 24x7
thanks to the Net and particularly mobile. Almost everything we do is either
over these mediums or at least shared on them, commented upon, collaborated
and so on.

Individual activities like gardening, woodworking, philately, reading a book,
birdwatching, stargazing, painting and so on are either increasingly waning or
being substituted by their "online" and "connected" doppelgängers.

~~~
thirdsun
> Very true, as someone who grew up in the 80s and mid-90s, we usually met
> "friends" for an hour or so in a day and the rest of it was spent with
> solitary pursuits and perhaps with family. These days we're "connected" 24x7
> thanks to the Net and particularly mobile. Almost everything we do is either
> over these mediums or at least shared on them, commented upon, collaborated
> and so on.

Yes, and on the other hand it sometimes feels as if this leads to social
fatigue. Meeting someone face to face sure felt different and
more...worthwhile (for lack of a better term) growing up in the 90s, when it
was the only way to keep in touch with friends. Compare this to today where
social gatherings are preceded, surrounded and accompanied by constant, always
and immediately available, often lesser ways of communicating - whether it's
social networks, group chats, messages.

Of course I don't want to paint a pure black picture - I enjoy those options
as much as the next guy, but it comes with side effects I guess.

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bitL
If you put people against each other in a mindless internal competition
instead of supporting a proper collaboration (and not a fake one that requires
some to sacrifice a lot so that others can step over them), what else than a
massive isolation could be outcome? Also, not many people mistake colleagues
with friends either, so any community within workplace is a non-working fix as
people tend to forget each other quickly when they change jobs.

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Myrmornis
Why is this article concentrating so much on forging social connections at
work? People's social lives should be built outside work, not the result of
corporate workplace sociality-boosting programs.

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icebraining
I'm very skeptical of corporate programs that try to meddle in their workers'
personal lives, but why should people's social lives be built outside work? A
workplace is the social setting in which most of us spend most time, seems
like a waste to limit those bonds.

~~~
wu-ikkyu
>why should people's social lives be built outside work?

Because it is much more genuine, easier, and less risky.

There are countless laws, regulations, and policies dictating how one is to
act in the workplace: you must dress this way, you must use only approved
language (no swearing), you must not speak on controversial topics, you must
not offend anyone.

A simple joke can get you reported to human resources and potentially fired.

~~~
icebraining
_Because it is much more genuine, easier, and less risky._

Right, but they're not mutually exclusive, so how they compare relatively is
irrelevant.

 _There are countless laws, regulations, and policies dictating how one is to
act in the workplace: you must dress this way, you must use only approved
language (no swearing), you must not speak on controversial topics, you must
not offend anyone._

Every social situation has its rules with which one must comply. The workplace
may be more restricted than one's home or a bar, but hell, even in
totalitarian states with political polices people managed to have friends.

If one is in a particularly bad workplace, or have difficulty reading its
social context, sure - it's better to keep one's head down and be merely
polite. But as a rule, seems quite excessive.

~~~
heedlessly2
certain topics are off-limits for discussion with coworkers even if they occur
away from the office.

For example, if I feel strongly about pro-choice but my coworker, she feels
very strongly about pro-life, then there may be some extra politics I need to
deal with work. While she might not directly shown her distain, instead it'll
be a bunch of subtle things she does that negatively affect the relationship.
Ideally, political interest would have no effect, but realistic they might.
I'd rather not take that chance. That's why I only talk politics with friend
outside work.

Secondly, I'd personally rather not talk about my private relationships and
family with coworkers. If i was going through a divorce, I would not talk
about that even with my closest coworker.Again, I would discuss that with a
close friend outside of work. At work, people's status matters more. You
always want to portray an image to look strong, positive. At work everybody
has a job title, with friends outside of work, there are less stakes on
'status'.

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mjevans
If I worked someplace large enough to have peers like me, this article's
stance on finding a community within the workplace might seem more palatable.

The only truth I can see from my own perspective on this subject is that one
solution won't fit for all.

In my context, the issues being with not having any workable solution.

Maybe that's another feature that guilds, unions, and other professional
organizations provide industries that have them.

