

Ask HN: Great design without designer on-board? - mannicken

Hey All,<p>Well, the odds of having a good designer that speaks with people through colors and shapes on a startup team aren't all that great.
Of course, you can always outsource design but here are several problems that I see:<p>1. Price. Bootstrapped startup often can't afford professional design and cheap design often is crappy.<p>2. Misunderstanding. A much bigger problem. As I see it, design isn't just pretty decorations on your website or nice drawings in your app. It's a direct projection of your idea through a media similar to text. If you have a tight 1-4 person team that understands the idea very well, a foreign person might fuck it up.<p>What do you do without a designer? The only possible solution I see is just do what you can and pray to %deity your idea and algorithms carry your through.<p>Is there another solution?
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dazzawazza
Here are some tips from what I have learned as a coder that has been forced to
design:

1 - find another product that you like the design for, look for something
simple and with an appropriate colour scheme for your market. Use this as a
starting design.

2 - Read smashing magazine for typography and layout tips.... actually just
read it all the time. It's a great resource.

3 - As with code design, keep your interface simple. Initially avoid gimmicks
through JS, just make something that is clean and works.

4 - Release the best interface you can to your users and ask for feedback.
Some users offer great feed back others don't. Don't be afraid to ignore some
feedback but most feedback has a kernel of truth to it.

5 - As with code, iterate quickly and ask for more feedback.

6 - Don't ever think you can't design, everyone starts somewhere, everyone
makes mistakes. Stop procrastinating and get on with it.

7 - Sometimes there is necessary complexity. Apple are famous for simplicity
but if you've ever used Final Cut Pro you will know that complex things are
actually complex.

Good luck.

~~~
dazzawazza
As a postscript to this I'd just like to add that I do all my 'design' in
Inkscape which is free so there is no need to spend a _lot_ of money.

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alexkearns
I would advise any aspiring software developer to get their hands dirty with
design as early as possible in their career. Hardcore programmers might deny
it but interface design is as important to most software as the database
structure, code architecture and algorithms. You can hardly call yourself a
software developer if you are unable to develop a key part of software.

I am a programmer first and foremost (well, strictly speaking, a journalist
first and foremost, but I won't go into that) and used to be terrible at
design. But I worked at it, completing tutorials at sites like psdtuts.com and
trying to keep up with the latest design trends at showcase sites such as
webcreme.com. It was a couple of years before I could create anything I was
happy with, but now I design all my software, and I have to say that it is so
much more fun turning your own interface ideas into code, than doing it for
someone else's ideas.

~~~
epoweripi
I completely agree with the comment above.

I never worked on UI all my life and when I started learning the infamous 3 -
html/css/js - it opened up a whole new world.

I think I actually like it now, though it was tough initially. I know I am not
stellar at good looking UI, but I can whip out "passable" designs which you
wouldn't puke at.

More tips for an all dev team:

\- I found the typography defaults that blueprint css has, to be sane and easy
to tweak.

\- Use good icon sets (psptuts, smashing magazine) - dont reinvent the wheel
there.

\- Read. Read. Read. - ALA, smashing mag, psdtuts.

\- Practise. Practise. Practise. whatever you have read.

\- Enjoy doing it. Once you add passion to the mix, life gets easy.

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SwellJoe
pg has frequently suggested "simple" as a substitute for "good", using Google
as an example. I think this is the best you can do, in the short term, if you
don't have a designer that shares your vision. Tweaking simple designs is much
easier than tweaking complex ones, so if you do simple now, when you have a
few thousand dollars to spend on a good designer, you won't have to undo what
you've done in the meantime.

I've actually found that easier said than done, in a very large, very mature,
codebase. The more functionality your software offers, the harder it becomes
to make the UI simple. I've spent some time learning about design and UX in
the past couple of years, diverting some of my mental resources over to the
task (the only new programming language I've learned in that time is
JavaScript, but I've also learned a lot about UI, user testing, making
gradients and buttons, grid systems, CSS, browser bugs, etc.). There is enough
programming to keep it challenging, and enough new tools involved to give me
(a lifetime nerd with an affinity for how computers and software work) a
relative advantage over creative folks just starting out with design for the
web. I've been avoiding admitting to myself that one of my primary roles in
the company is design...but it's become that by necessity. I finally broke
down and bought the Adobe CS4 Web Design Premium bundle, so I have the same
tools all the real designers are using.

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systemtrigger
I could use help with design too and it's not so much that I can't design but
that I'm too close to my app and need outside opinions about how to lay stuff
out and how to phrase things. I wonder if startups could moonlight a little
and help one another out on design, doing mockups and copyrighting with the
expectation that the effort contributed will be reciprocated.

~~~
nickcharlton
I think such an idea would be very useful, but with any such idea it is open
to be abused. However, with an appropriate community behind it (this being a
good example) and good implementation, I can see it working.

What concerns me is startups which wish to run in Stealth, how could someone
give advice if they need to be in the "inner circle" to provide help and
guidance? (Presuming a VC isn't used).

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phil_KartMe
1) solve a problem burning enough for early adopters that they'll be willing
to invest time to figure out how to use the poorly designed product

2) try to offer users just 1 action per page

3) watch logs and talk to customers to see what is/isn't being done as
desired. adjust size/color to get results.

4) invest in UI pro when ready to move beyond early adopters to a mainstream
audience. design does matter.

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hs
true, ui != photoshop. one can have pixel-perfect but unusable site

i like ui.jquery; adapt the API & bundled example source-code to simple
projects, then after practicing, apply to larger projects.

for ornaments, i like inkscape (pkg_add inkscape or apt-get install inkscape).
it's parametric, svg->png. the bundled tutorials are extremely good.

gimp and imagemagick sometimes are useful, but not necessary.

i focus on ui.jquery and inkscape (both free, open source) which don't have
very steep learning curve.

