

A LadyCoders Attendee: Learning To Code Isn't Enough To Get The Job - tarahmarie
http://ladycoders.com/2013/02/12/a-ladycoders-attendee-learning-to-code-isnt-enough-to-get-the-job/

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doktrin
"Learning to code" feels like a very amorphous and vague notion. Does it mean
knowing iterators and for-loops? Integrating 2 web APIs? Building a compiler?

Speaking for myself : I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to
write computer programs. However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a
computer programmer. The problem isn't my lack of presentation, it's a lack of
knowledge. This may be the case for others as well.

~~~
lacker
_I know how to code, in the sense that I know how to write computer programs.
However, it's certainly not enough to get hired as a computer programmer._

I disagree. In today's job market, if you can code, you can get hired as a
computer programmer. Are <https://github.com/arn-e> and
<http://a-rne.tumblr.com/> your work? (From your profile.) If so, you should
definitely be able to get hired as a programmer. If you don't believe me,
contact me at my HN username at gmail, and I can help you out.

~~~
anchises479
Then why do so many women say they keep getting tracked out of software
development jobs?

~~~
doktrin
I don't think anyone can actually answer that, since it's anecdotal.

For the record, I'm a dude (in case there was any confusion given the context
of this thread). Obviously, gender discrimination does not apply in my case.

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anchises479
The reason I posted this was to show that the people who want and need to come
to our seminars are people who already know how to code, but don't know how to
get jobs in tech.

You can learn about our seminars here: <http://ladycoders.com/about-us/about-
our-seminars/>

You can register for seminars here: <http://ladycoders.com/event-
registration/>

You can also see some of the nice and nasty things people have said about us
here:

Huffington Post: [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-
helping-...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cassie-slane/who-knew-helping-
women_b_2599848.html)

CBS Radio: [http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-
Ladies-S...](http://kiroradio.com/874/2194952/LadyCoders-Helping-Ladies-
Succeed-in-the-Tech-World)

Or here: <http://ladycoders.com/as-seen-on/>

------
tarahmarie
This is a great story by one of our attendees talking about how learning to
code wasn't enough to help her actually get jobs. She still had to learn to
speak confidently about her skills.

~~~
stcredzero
It's not just that. You also have to "decode" whatever signaling people are
unconsciously looking for. Or, to put it another way, the prospective
employers are going to be prejudiced in some way shape or form. (And they'll
be in denial about it.)

This doesn't make the employers bad. This just makes them human. I just really
wish more humans realized all of the above.

~~~
anchises479
These are unconscious social biases. Men are not evil for not hiring women
when they don't understand the style of communication being used. When women
are hesitant explaining the gaps in their resumes from childcare, or don't
have any confidence answering questions, it's hard to blame men for going with
someone they see as confident.

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jordo37
Great to see LadyCoders getting more attention here on HN. From my time
working with awesome women in startups and in a big tech shop it seemed like
this was always a challenge given social norms. That's why I backed LadyCoders
on kickstarter and I can't wait to see how they keep growing.

~~~
anchises479
Thanks for supporting women in tech.

~~~
StavrosK
Is anybody against women in tech? Serious question, I'm all for anyone who
wants to learn how to program, regardless of gender or age, and I can't
imagine anyone not supporting it.

Also: Hey Tarah! Just saw this was you. Great job with LadyCoders, I hope it
gets even better.

~~~
tanglisha
I think the majority of people are not against women in tech.

Most of the issues are fairly unconscious bias. Some people just assume women
aren't as good at tech jobs as men are. Some people assume pretty women are
stupid. Some people are simply uncomfortable around women, so don't put
themselves into a position where they will be around them.

Issues with actually getting women into tech jobs range from their manner of
speech (for example, raising their voices at the end of sentences) to being
overly modest about their job skills.

~~~
StavrosK
Hmm, that's interesting, I would never have guessed that the manner of speech
is something that might need improvement. I guess the points you mentioned
apply to any job (and probably gender), though.

~~~
mnicole
To add to this, I know that when I'm nervous I smile a lot and laugh to try to
ease my own tension, so I can understand how an interviewer would take that as
being naïve or not serious about the role, when it's really just a case of
anxiety mixed with imposter syndrome.

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kirarev
I wish this article mentioned more information about LadyCoders. I feel like
it lead up to the point "go to a LadyCoders seminar" without explaining much
about what LadyCoders is. Guess I'll just have to do my own research.

~~~
anchises479
I'm happy to answer your questions here in the comments. I am one of the
LadyCoders; my name is Tarah Wheeler Van Vlack. LadyCoders is an initiative
that puts on seminars and provides mentorship for programmers (often women)
who find that they're having problems getting jobs in tech. Women often suffer
from Impostor Syndrome. That frequently manifests itself as the inability to
be confident about their skills in front of technical interviewers.

~~~
kirarev
Do you guys ever consider getting involved with University Computer Science
programs?

I went to this extremely depressing "females in computer science" sort of
mentoring meeting today and all of the women holding it essentially conveyed
the idea "don't go into industry (got to grad school), they will eat you alive
since you're a woman." it was horrid to hear this from other women. I'm glad
to see that not everyone agrees with that.

