
Is Java dead? - juwo

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edgeztv
Not at all. It's constantly improving, e.g. generics, enums, and much more
with version 5, and there's talk of adding closures to the language.

The amount of open source software and libraries for Java is also staggering.

The JVM platform is great and improving all the time.

If you like dynamic languages, why not try something that runs on the JVM as
bytecode, like Groovy, JRuby, or Jython? You'll get the best of both worlds
and can call Java code from your dynamic language.

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paultoo
Nope. Java is a pretty solid platform on the server. Client-side java was
never alive, though it had a lot of hype.

~~~
SwellJoe
Java had a moment on the client. We still have a few Java applets in our
product (a file manager, an ssh/terminal client, probably a couple of others
I'm not thinking of), though they are being re-written as AJAX apps as we
speak. But all of the flaws in Java are still present even on modern machines
with modern Java versions...so no use flogging a dead horse.

~~~
a1k0n
I'd like to see an AJAX ssh/terminal client. How do you plan to do that? Lots
of XMLHttpRequest polling?

I hate that there isn't a way to do some kind of persistent socket connection
in browser-Javascript, unless you include Flash into the mix.

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cmars232
At my day job, Java is the official sanctioned platform, everything else is
considered "ad-hoc", a prototype. As one who prefers Django+Python, I kind of
wish it _would_ die sometimes... I can imagine this is a common industry trend
among mid-to-large-size companies.

That's why I've been interested in Scala lately. I could see advantages to
opening up your platform to enterprise drones. Scala might be a way to do it
without becoming an enterprise drone in the process :)

Despite the hype and UML-wielding enterprise architects standing around it,
Java-the-platform is still interesting. mailinator was done in Java (see
<http://mailinator.blogspot.com/2007/01/architecture-of-mailinator.html> ),
and handles tremendous amounts of spam on cheap hardware. And there's
RabbitMQ, the Java-compatible message bus written in Erlang. Java doesn't
_have_ to suck...

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jsjenkins168
No.

In fact, Google uses it to build their web apps (GWT). Its not going away,
rather it keeps expanding and morphing to fit new emerging needs.

To hackers who feel tied down by the rigid structure of statically typed
languages, it probably seems dead. Higher level loosely typed interpreted
languages seem to be the growing trend now.

Dead on the Client? I don't think so. Does no one here code in Eclipse?
Azureus and several other really good client apps are Java. It is a very
attractive choice considering the wide range of classes in the core API and in
open source libraries.

Besides GWT, Java web development sucks though, IMHO. JSF did not improve
things much. They are trying to add AJAX features but it just doesn't work.
Its too cumbersome for hackers to work with IMHO.

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mmiller
This is like PG's post on his blog, "Microsoft is dead". Don't declare stuff
dead so soon. I still remember Byte Magazine declaring "Object-Oriented
Programming is Dead", and within a month, "Unix is Dead". Both deaths were
greatly exaggerated.

Re: Java, it sounds like the excitement has died, but neither Microsoft nor
Java are anywhere near dead. In fact, what has really died in the computing
world, besides coding in machine code/assembly language, punch cards/paper
tape, and teletypes? And aren't we thankful for that? It seems like every
other computer interaction idiom is alive and well.

Some things don't stay dead forever, either. Dynamic languages could've easily
been declared dead 13 years ago, without exaggerating, but they've been making
a resurgence recently.

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staunch
Java will never disappear, but a lot less people have wool pulled over their
eyes than did before. Now that Java has less hype and "management buy-in" it's
going to have to compete on merit, and there it mostly falls short. Survival
of the fittest.

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cwilbur
No. Java is alive and well, and still a very good solution for certain classes
of problem.

The Java _hype_ appears to be mostly dead. Only the most pointy-haired
continue to think that Java is a silver bullet for all problems.

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stuki
Heck no. The runtime is state of the art. So are many/most of the important
libraries. Until another environment available ex Windows get close to that,
java is solid. Generally speaking, languages with 'nice' features are a dime a
dozen. It's the runtimes and ecosystems that are hard to duplicate.

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brlewis
Is this question about Java the platform or Java the language? For
ourdoings.com I use the platform, but Scheme is the language.

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nickb
At Google, Java's bigger than ever.

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twism
no

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sabat
IMHO, Java is not dead, but it's found its home: the enterprise.

Java has a ton of overhead in its syntax and structure: just saying "Hello
world" takes like 10 lines.

In an enterprise, where you have so many developers who will work on the same
codebase, then a nanny-language like Java is appropriate. You never know who
might take advantage of a lack of structure and do something Really Stupid[tm]
that you won't find out about until much later.

But for hacking? YMMV but in my experience, the only hackers who need Java are
the ones who cannot exist without a lot of predefined structure.

~~~
umjames
You're pretty much right. The problems really start when you work in an
enterprise but you are on a very small team (no greater than 2, but almost
always just me), and your boss wants it done in Java for no real good reason.

Another problem is that using most Java frameworks is not as simple as
including a JAR in the classpath. They require different amounts of config
files and boilerplate start up code.

The ultimate problem is that when you've had a taste of metaprogramming, real
closures, or some other feature that Java lacks, you find it extremely
irritating to lose that power just so that you can say you wrote it in Java.

PS. Limewire is a client Java app (or at least loads and looks like one).

