
Swiss reject additional immigration curbs - immigg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30267042
======
aikah
Whatever one might think about the result of this "votation",I think it's
great that people can make their voices heard directly.It keeps politicians in
check.Sometimes the people can take bad decisions,but at least they own that
decision,they are not constently delegating power to an "elite" that decides
for them.

I wish more countries had this "votation" system.And that's the whole problem
with the EU.Why would some folks in Germany ,for instance, decide for people
living in Spain, or Greece ?it cannot work on the long run. Would americans
accept Canada,or Mexico having a saying in how USA should manage its
finances?its agriculture? There is a need for international agreements,of
course,but USA isnt ruled by people abroad.Switzerland isnt part of the
EU,that why it remains a true democracy.

~~~
Tomte
As we can see with Switzerland, it strenghtens extreme positions.

Let me ask you a question: why should people in Northrhine-Westphalia "decide
for" people in Bavaria? Shouldn't we dissolve our federal parliament?

Having done that, why do the people living in Stuttgart "decide for" the
people living in Karlsruhe? Shouldn't we dissolve the state of Baden-
Wuerttemberg?

The answer is, of course, that decisions should be made at the lowest level
where they are making sense. And in this regard the EU is imperfect.

But you're throwing out the baby with the bath water.

~~~
zupatol
The referendum system has been in place for more than a hundred years and it's
hard to argue that Switzerland has a tradition of extremism.

Far right parties are on the rise everywhere in Europe, regardless of the
voting system.

------
s3nnyy
The direct-democracy thing is unique to Switzerland. I don't know of any other
country where politicians threaten each other publicly saying things like "If
you continue behaving badly at XY, we're going to make a referendum, the
people will decide and you'll be screwed".

Also, Swiss people tend to use "us" when they talk about their politicians
whereas Germans use "they". This really shows how Swiss stand behind decision
made by their government whereas Germans - in comparison - act like infants
being totally at the mercy of their leaders (who are elected every four years
and basically do what they want during that time).

The theoretical down-site of direct democracy is that if the population is
stupid, you'll get instant stupid decisions forced onto politicians. A small,
well-educated population shouldn't have this problem though.

More of my experiences within Switzerland you'll find in here: "Eight reasons
why I moved to Switzerland to work in IT"
[http://goo.gl/EIX4UX](http://goo.gl/EIX4UX) (Full disclosure: If you're from
the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

~~~
thrownaway2424
You're right, it doesn't work at scale. California (four times more populous
than Switzerland) is plagued with plebiscites on every imaginable topic. Often
they get passed into law while being in direct conflict with other previous or
even concurrent referenda.

~~~
lmm
I've heard the big problem is that a referendum can't raise taxes, but can
require the state to spend money.

It would be cool if each proposal had to be financed (e.g. "sponsoring this
thing will require raising state income tax by 0.024%"), though I guess that's
impractical?

~~~
thrownaway2424
That's not true, a referendum can raise taxes. However on account of a
previous referendum these tax-raising propositions need a 2/3rds supermajority
to pass, while spending projects require only a bare majority.

------
ck2
Okay but why?

Good intentions? Open hearted?

Or looking for cheap labor?

(I'm actually asking, no clue about Swiss culture)

~~~
rtpg
Studies have shown that in the UK immigrant populations pay more in taxes than
they pull out in benefits, I imagine it's the same in Switzerland, despite
what neo-fascists might want to believe.

Population growth in Switzerland is currently at 0.6%, so immigration can help
supplement this.

Basically there's no good reason to limit immigration.

~~~
aikah
> Studies have shown that in the UK immigrant populations pay more in taxes
> than they pull out in benefits, I imagine it's the same in Switzerland,
> despite what neo-fascists might want to believe.

It doesnt say anything about the real cost of immigration.All I know is that
the british people are getting less and less benefits per people,their
healthcare system is being privatized and education is getting more and more
expensive,without the "neo-fascists" in power. The ruling elite is doing
everything so that more and more people want to vote for what you call "neo-
fascists".

And frankly there is no "neo-fascists".It's the bogeyman the elite uses in
order to scare off people and make sure they vote "the right way".Fortunatly
less and less people are falling for that scam.

~~~
lmm
> their healthcare system is being privatized and education is getting more
> and more expensive,without the "neo-fascists" in power.

Huhwhat? The recent damage to the benefit and healthcare system and the huge
increase in university fees both happened under the current Conservative
government, not because of immigration but because of policy. Turns out the
left-right axis is real, and the far right really is further to the right
(e.g. UKIP's deputy leader recently said that he couldn't see the NHS
surviving in its current form because it didn't have any free-market
competition).

------
bruceb
Headline is somewhat misleading. The referendum was rejected but it was a
rather harsh measure. So even those wanting to slow down immigration may have
voted no.

From the article: The country voted in February to re-introduce immigration
quotas, in effect opting out of an EU free movement agreement.

~~~
dang
We added "additional" to the title to try to fix that.

------
1337biz
They also voted against increasing their gold reserves and against cutting tax
privileges for millionaires. Seems that they just voted for whoever was able
to put the most money behind their campaign.

~~~
nly
Why would they want to increase Gold reserves anyway? Surely holding strategic
foreign currency reserves is broadly more useful.

~~~
Tomte
Because gold bugs and fiat money.

Gold bugs are kind of the more conservative variant of Bitcoin fans.

