
Computer Museum bids farewell to Babbage engine - jgrahamc
http://www.mv-voice.com/print/story/2016/01/29/computer-museum-bids-farewell-to-babbage-engine
======
JBReefer
If you're just scanning, it's not THE Difference Engine, it's a replica:

>"To be clear, the museum's difference engine isn't an original built 160
years ago by Babbage, but rather it is a working model painstakingly designed
and assembled in the 1990s. ... The London Science Museum keeps one Babbage
Engine on display, but its design team also assembled a second model for a
private benefactor who financed the project. That donor, Nathan Myhrvold, a
former Microsoft executive, originally loaned his Babbage Engine to the
Mountain View Computer History Museum in 2008 with the idea to exhibit it for
just six months."

~~~
masklinn
> it's not THE Difference Engine

Couldn't be, Babbage never finished it, switched to the Analytical Engine
(burning his government funding bridges) and never finished that either.

The subject of the article also isn't the original _design_ , they're the No.
2 design following lessons learned working on the Analytical Engine.

Of note: on top of the two Difference Engines, the Science Museum built the
printer which Babbage had designed for the Engine. Babbage had realised that
many table errors came from typesetting transcription errors, so the printer
was designed to produce stereotype plates, templates for mass-printing with
limited room for human error.

Also contrary to what the article seems to say, Myhrvold didn't fund the first
DE reconstruction. He commissioned one, and part of that commission was used
to build the printer.

~~~
CydeWeys
You seem to know about this, so, related question for you.

Do you think it would have greatly changed history if Babbage had succeeded at
creating these mechanical computers? Or were they a vestigial dead end, and
simply spreading the knowledge and theory to make them was the real extent of
their influence? I'm guessing the latter, but in no way am I sure.

~~~
derekp7
Have you read the book "The Difference Engine" by Gibson and Sterling? (Kind
of what kicked off the whole Steampunk genre). Basically a taste of modern
society could have been realized many decades earlier.

But the real bummer, is that Edison's lab essentially invented vacuum tubes,
but shelved it as Edison didn't see any profit potential in it. Another missed
opportunity for earlier computing.

~~~
CydeWeys
I did read the novel, but that's a work of fiction though whose primary
purpose is to be enjoyable to read. I don't think it's particularly useful
here.

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pkwood
The guided tour of this machine is amazing. If you can make it over to see
this beauty before she departs I strongly encourage you to do so!

~~~
linker3000
Seconded.

I was lucky enough to be involved in a demo of the machine at the museum
during a visit just over a year ago. I am based in the UK and was in San Jose
visiting our company HQ for a couple of weeks. I went to the museum one
weekend and was chatting to the two gentlemen who were due to run the demo;
when I told them I'd seen the other machine in the Science Museum in London,
they asked if I would discuss the differences (pun not intended) between the
two during their presentation.

I was happy to oblige and spent a minute or so explaining how much better the
one in Mountain View was because it wasn't behind glass and it could be seen
in action.

I went back to the museum during another visit last October and saw the
machine again. I guess there's now going to be a void to fill next to the
Cray, but even without the Babbage Engine, the museum is really worth a visit.

Happy travels crazy computer.

~~~
russdill
Yes, while the crowd is large, the demonstration is lengthy so people do mill
around the machine. You can get quite close and get pretty much any view of
the machine you want while it is in operation.

Totally brings this to life: [http://www.smbc-
comics.com/?id=2247](http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2247)

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hvs
There's a book that was published about 13 years ago by the man leading the
program to rebuild the difference engine for London's Science Museum called,
"The Difference Engine: Charles Babbage and the Quest to Build the First
Computer" [1].

I can't really recommend it, since half (or more) of it is about Doron Swade
navigating the politics of a London Museum in order to get the thing built.
But there is an interesting history of Babbage.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Difference-Engine-Charles-
Computer...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Difference-Engine-Charles-
Computer/dp/0142001449)

~~~
theoh
This is a good account by Swade if you have IEEE access: The Construction of
Charles Babbage's Difference Engine No. 2

[http://www.computer.org/csdl/mags/an/2005/03/man2005030070-a...](http://www.computer.org/csdl/mags/an/2005/03/man2005030070-abs.html)

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bashinator
Leave it to the Brits to invent a computer that leaks oil. (Yes, the
difference engine in question has an oil pan, and I would assume needs regular
maintenance.)

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johnhattan
When I was a kid, my local kids' museum (Mid-America Museum in Hot Springs
Arkansas) had a giant mechanical Lego computer that could play Tic Tac Toe.

Unfortunately, the thing had so many moving parts and was so unruly that I
never got to see it actually working. It was almost always out of order and
eventually was retired.

~~~
EvanAnderson
I remember hearing about Danny Hillis (who went on to co-found Thinking
Machines, who produced the massively parallel Connection Machine computers)
building a tinkertoy computer. A little bit of digging turned up this book w/
some a chapter that includes, I believe, the computer you're talking about:
[https://archive.org/stream/tinkertoycomputer00dewd](https://archive.org/stream/tinkertoycomputer00dewd)

~~~
johnhattan
Yes, you are correct. Got my toys mixed up :)

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piyushpr134
Had the privilege to see it in action
[https://twitter.com/piyush_ranjan/status/692750412085010432](https://twitter.com/piyush_ranjan/status/692750412085010432)

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SwellJoe
I was living in Mountain View when they first unveiled this beautiful beast,
and went to a couple of the very early exhibitions. I love everything about
the Computer History Museum, and recommend it heartily to anyone visiting the
area. I've taken a huge variety of guests (from my parents, to non-techie
girlfriends, to nerds of many types, etc.), and I think everyone has enjoyed
it and learned something. The Babbage engine is one of the coolest things in
the building, but having it go away doesn't make the CHM any less worth
visiting.

In short: If you haven't seen the darned thing, and you're anywhere near
Mountain View, I guess now is the time. And, if you miss the Babbage engine,
you should still go check out the CHM. As nerds, it's like the museum of our
people. Where else can you see one of the first computer games or hear one the
first computer music pieces being demonstrated by the people who wrote them?
(Though those also have a time limit...the folks who wrote those first games
and musical compositions are in their seventies; they won't be docents at the
CHM forever.)

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curtis
I wonder if it would have been possible to build a Difference
Engine/Analytical Engine equivalent machine during the same era using
electrical relays. According to Wikipedia the first relays were invented in
the 1830s or 1840s for use in telegraphs. It may have been many decades before
relays were reliable enough or cheap enough to make such an undertaking
practical, though.

~~~
kwhitefoot
I suspect that at the time the reliability problems would have been greater
for relays and the speed would probably not have been much better.

But they could certainly have tried and that alone would probably have been
enough to drive someone to improve the design and manufacture of relays.

Is there anyone about who has expertise in this field who could give a better
answer?

~~~
jameshart
Wolfram (1) points out that Babbage and Lovelace knew Charles Wheatstone -
whose telegraphy work should have presented obvious electromechanical
opportunities if Babbage had been able to actually finish anything, and
perhaps if Lovelace had lived longer.

(1) [http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2015/12/untangling-the-
tale-o...](http://blog.stephenwolfram.com/2015/12/untangling-the-tale-of-ada-
lovelace/)

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GeorgeRichard
>The Mountain View Computer History Museum is saying goodbye to one of its
most unique exhibits, if not also its most priceless.

I know its poor form to mention such things but "unique" and "priceless" are
both absolutes: something is unique/priceless or it's not. For example, if one
thinks about two unique things it is not possible to say which is more unique
than the other. (If one thinks about Difference Engines, since there is one in
the Science Museum and one in the Computer History Museum, neither is unique.)

Usually when I see this sort of thing I shrug and remind myself that living
languages constantly change. (It seems that "unique" has lost some of its
force and is changing its meaning to something like "very unusual" or "very
rare".) But two examples in one sentence apparently stirs the old fuddy-duddy
in me to action...

~~~
ta93882
perhaps it's the domain people refer to? For example:

A chair that I make is unique, there is not another exactly like it.

A chair that I make is unique, there is only one in the world made by me.

In this case, the chair is unique in a very specific way.

However, the Babbage engine is unique in more ways. First mechanical computer
of a certain complexity. Only mechanical computer with so much funding from
the government. Build quality, ability etc...

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DIVx0
My family and I ended up at the museum on a whim late last summer during our
vacation.

I'm so happy we went and I'm doubly so I got to see this machine operate
during a demo. It makes the most impressive sounds!

Even without this machine, the computer history museum was far more impressive
than I imagined it would be.

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dnautics
Would it be possible to rebuild one using 3d printed parts (probably laser
sintered metal would be the best)... And then, build an analytical engine...
And then make the analytical engine drive a 3d printer...

~~~
arunaugustine
As the difference engine computes result of polynomial equations (upto x to
the power 7, if I remember the demo correctly) , I don't think its turing
complete enough to drive a 3d-printer completely. It can, perhaps, drive the
generative design of a 3d printed art based on the result of a polynomial
equation.

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URSpider94
I'm going to try to take the kids this weekend.

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mavhc
There's a project to build the Analytical Engine also,
[http://plan28.org/](http://plan28.org/) some great videos about how it works
there, finally feel like I understand it.

~~~
jgrahamc
And we're making slow progress.

------
rahulrrixe
I have been at computer history museum recently and got a chance to see the
Babbage machine. It is marvellous and within seconds, you will relish its
beauty. It lets you realise how the computers has changed over the years.

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rbanffy
It would be awesome if it could print the lyrics for Daisy Bell before being
"turned off" for shipping...

Of course, that would probably mean building a different "microcode
camshaft"...

I'm not sure it can print letters.

~~~
jameshart
Difference engine, not analytical engine. Just a polynomial sequence
calculator, not a computer.

~~~
rbanffy
Now that you mentioned it, the printer directly prints the decimal number in
the accumulator, so it's unlikely it could print lyrics.

We could, however, build a music-box-like device that would "print" the
accumulator as pair of pitch/duration notes, a "sound impression device", or
SID.

That would certainly drive future historians nuts.

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guelo
Here's a video of the machine in operation
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o3uejzyILY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o3uejzyILY)

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daemin
I guess I won't be able to see it again if I head down to SF for the GDC.
Alas, at least I got to see it in action and have some photos.

Might have to go to the closer one in London then.

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pavel_lishin
I wonder how difficult it would be to recreate this, given how prevalent 3D
printing has become.

~~~
runamok
Very. The tolerances are very tight and it needs all kinds of lubrication and
being 'massaged' while it is run.

IIRC the whole reason Babbage could not build it was because the machine shops
of the day could not produce precise enough parts...

~~~
FrankyHollywood
Besides that, the parts will be stressed with a lot of force. I doubt whether
plastics are strong enough. Look at it working:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiRgdaknJCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiRgdaknJCg)
(at about 2:30 it is just computational art :)

~~~
toomuchtodo
You could laser sinter the entire device piece by piece.

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anigbrowl
I can't believe the CHM is located smack in the middle of Silicon Valley and
nobody is willing to put their hand in their pocket to keep this available as
an educational resource to inspire future generations. Pathetic.

~~~
simonw
This isn't a money issue. Nathan Myhrvold commissioned the machine to live in
his house. After loaning it to the Computer History Museum for longer than
originally planned, he's taking it for private display (as originally
intended).

He's worth $650m plus, so there's likely no amount of money that would
convince him to leave the machine in the museum.

~~~
rdc12
Prehaps a better approach would be to convince Myhrvold to gift the machine to
the CHM in his will?

