
A Wrist-Worn Answer to Sexual Attack? - mikeleeorg
http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/01/25/a-wrist-worn-answer-to-sexual-attack/
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king_jester
For those advocating arms (pepper spray, taser, gun, etc.) as a solution,
please get some basic facts straight.

* Most people who are sexually assaulted know their attacker and are not attacked randomly on the street. This makes self defense scenarios unrealistic, as there is already some level of trust between an attacker and the survivor

* Most sexual assaults will go without arrests and prosecution. There have already been cases where women have been arrested and sent to jail for self defense (CeCe Mcdonald's case comes to mind), including the Marissa Alexander case where someone fired a warning shot at their abuser and was sent to jail: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Corey#Marissa_Alexander_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Corey#Marissa_Alexander_case)

* Sexual assault and rape aren't just about incidents, it is about a culture that supports rapists and demonizes survivors and dismantling that culture is the best way to defeat sexual assault

~~~
cobrausn
Statistics don't comfort the victims that could have done something but were
restricted from doing so, usually by people who already live safe lives and
want them to be safer.

And your second example basically says 'we will prevent you from defending
yourself, so just take it and hope the system saves you'.

And if you think this culture 'supports rapists and demonizes survivors', you
are in need of getting your facts straight.

EDIT:

I'm beginning to take this whole thing a bit personal. I learned a long time
ago to call it quits when that starts to happen on the internet, so I'm out.

~~~
matt_
I re-read all of the comments on here and didn't feel like ANYONE said
anything about victims being 'restricted' from defending themselves.

People on here were stating that the woman should get a gun, or get pepper
spray, or get a taser. Telling women they need to defend themselves in a
certain way and it's on them to get a gun and shoot an attacker is what I and
a few others were upset about.

~~~
philwelch
Would you rather tell women they are helpless and that there is nothing they
can do but submit to the mercy of men?

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srean
If you would please let me to vent:

    
    
        That sir is just fucking hogwash ! how the fuck is
        that going to fucking matter when the fucking police
        does'nt even take the fucking call.
    

Thanks folks, and I normally dont speak like this. I have been following the
incident closely

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape_case>

and I had to get that out of my system.

For those who have not been following this particular incident, as a measure
of immediate damage control the govt had recently (quite grandiosely)
announced a new number: 181. This was a "special" "fast track" number
explicitly set up for responding to threats of immediate and sexual nature.

Guess what, [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Auto-driver-
th...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Auto-driver-threatens-
TOI-reporter-with-worst-violence/articleshow/17906753.cms)

The police, most of them are just incapable of conceiving the notion that they
have a duty to respond (helpfully that is) when a woman is in danger. Forget
responding to immediate threats, they will point blank refuse to even
officially register the assault.

Police officers who have been formally accused of molestation, have routinely
got promoted to the top, suffered no consequence at all, won patronage from
the highest elected officials of the state. This is almost the standard
script, unless the whole country erupts in outrage. Sadly the latter doesnt
happen very often.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPS_Rathore>

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPS_Gill#1996_conviction_for_se...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KPS_Gill#1996_conviction_for_sexual_harassment)

------
readme
>“I don’t think this will make any difference in controlling rape cases,” says
Sehba Farooqui, a woman’s rights activist in Delhi.

I agree. I don't think someone desperate enough to rape will care if their
victim has a wristwatch that can sms instantly. A good amount of potential
rapists aren't even going to know about them, even if the government
advertises it. A large portion of those who know either won't care, or will
rip the watch off the woman.

What would actually help stop a rape is some pepper spray. I don't know the
legality of that in India, but I have to say a lot of places in the US make it
way too difficult to acquire this very basic and effective self defense item.

~~~
king_jester
> What would actually help stop a rape is some pepper spray. I don't know the
> legality of that in India, but I have to say a lot of places in the US make
> it way too difficult to acquire this very basic and effective self defense
> item.

Self defense gear isn't a great systemic solution to sexual assault and rape,
esp. when it occurs with great frequency and police do not take such cases
seriously. Even in the US most sexual assault cases will never see an arrest
or prosecution and most people are assaulted by someone they know, not by a
random stranger on the street.

~~~
readme
>most people are assaulted by someone they know, not by a random stranger on
the street.

Absolutely true

> Self defense gear isn't a great systemic solution to sexual assault and rape

Absolutely true, they are not a systemic solution. They are an _individual_ 's
solution who chooses to take responsibility for his or her own safety.

A good systemic solution might be to legalize and subsidize brothels?

~~~
king_jester
Stopping sexual assault isn't just an individual's problem, it is a problem
for all of society. Why should we live in a culture where 1 in 5 women will
experience sexual assault in their lifetime? The kind of systemic problems we
face can't be solved by an individual buying a self defense item. We need to
focus on defeating a rape culture: <http://www.shakesville.com/2009/10/rape-
culture-101.html>

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pm90
Basically, the Indian govt. is trying to show that its "doing something" to
cool down the public temper after the recent rape incident. Mr.Sibal's last
comment is enlightening:

 _> Still, the effort may be of some value. Mr. Sibal noted that, with the
same technology, parents would be able to keep tabs on their children. _

What happens is: the agency that developed this device has to justify their
funding. So they come up with these bullshit ideas.

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charliepark
Wouldn't it be more effective if coupled with some distinctive and
excruciatingly-loud alarm, as a means of drawing attention to the scene /
getting the attacker to flee before doing anything?

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matt_
A gun? Pepper Spray? You have no idea how the rapist will react to that.

And someone shouldn't have to have the burden of ending another human's life
just to not be attacked.

~~~
cobrausn
What is with this absurd first world notion that nobody should ever have
anything bad ever happen to them in their life? Self-defense has been part of
being alive since the dawn of humanity - living in a civilized (to various
degrees) area doesn't negate that. You are either prepared to do what needs to
be done to protect yourself, or you rely on passive measures (living in a nice
area, avoiding dangerous situations, etc.) and hope you don't become a victim.

~~~
hnriot
It's a first world notion because that's part of being a first world country.
We invest in infrastructure that provides protection. Self-defense has shifted
to the much more efficient system where by individuals don't walk around armed
because we pay into a system of government that provides both police forces
and military defense.

The absurd idea that we all each take self defense into our own hands is just
ridiculous, just as you don't build your own water supply, or generate your
own electricity, or train to be a doctor just in case you get sick.

I can't imagine a more dangerous society where we all take self-defense into
our own hands. It wouldn't be the first world if we did that. Let's not start
spouting the gun toting nonsense here, the audience on hn is too smart to buy
that.

~~~
drcube
Police are not there to protect you. Their job is to bring perpetrators to
justice. If they are nearby, they may or may not attempt to stop a crime in
progress, but they are not required to do so, and that does nothing to stop
personal assaults that _might_ occur. In the best case, they are purely
reactionary, not preventative. In the worst case they are useless.

The military is not there to protect you either. Their job is to enforce
national policy abroad, put down rebellions and repel invasions.

I agree that police and the military make us safer overall, on average. But
they do not protect you personally. You can either pay a private security firm
to defend you if you are rich, or you can defend yourself. There literally are
no other choices.

~~~
_delirium
In suburban and rural areas where they only show up in response to phone
calls, I agree as far as police being reactive. But in urban areas police
serve a preventative and direct-intervention role, which is one of the classic
functions of "walking the beat". They're physically present at major squares
and landmarks, and intermittently present through much of the rest of the
city. I pass police officers pretty regularly when I walk to and from work,
and I would guess most of the time (barring when I'm in a more remote area), I
could get a quite timely response if I yelled for help.

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alan_cx
So, basically they have come up with a novel way to track their women.

Might be a bit of a doubled edged sword.

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exabrial
The smoking barrel of a 9mm is far more effective, if legal to get a CCL in
your state.

~~~
incision
Guns: They Make You Invincible

~~~
cobrausn
Guns: Provably better than snark at preventing and stopping rape.

~~~
incision
Snark: Not an unreasonable response to predictable [1], pointless chest-
thumping.

A reasonable discussion of rape defense / deterrents or even gun ownership
would be fine. A quip that romanticizes "the smoking barrel of a 9mm" like
it's just that simple is pure bullshit.

1: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4948542>

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iapi
indian government should pass a law on allowing tazers

