

Executives Of Swedish Start-Up Klarna Arrested For Kidnapping And Rape  - bluemoon
http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/08/klarna-execs-rape/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29

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4th_paradigm
techcrunch had to change their headline from 'kidnapping and rape' to
molestation (their original story was based on 3 sentences from nypost)

i guess that's what you get when 'gadget editors' become crime reporters.

~~~
tvon
That lines up with their apparent reporting standards over the past few years,
the subject matter doesn't change anything.

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parfe
If this story continues to get coverage revel in comments you will see such as
"But when did she say No?" And "How were they supposed to know if she never
told them to stop?"

When a woman has to say "No" or "Stop" you already crossed a line. Our society
taints sexual interactions with the idea that a woman consents to everything
by default and she must say "No" to withdraw consent. A sexual encounter is
not a time where it is better to ask forgiveness than permission.

~~~
DevX101
I hesitate to reply b/c none of this is tech related, but you're completely
wrong.

You don't ask for permission for every move you make while with a woman. If
you're moving a bit too fast for her and she says so, then cool, fall back.
But just about every woman I know would be turned off by a guy that asked
permission to kiss, to touch, and...well you get the idea.

~~~
parfe
_But just about every woman I know would be turned off by a guy that asked
permission to kiss, to touch, and...well you get the idea._

Surely that's what these fine gentlemen believed all the way through booking.
Guess they were wrong. If you touch a woman in a way she did not want to be
touched you don't get to run Undo on your molestation.

You seem confused about consent. How a consenting handshake works: 1) You
offer your hand. 2a) Other person consents by grasping it and shaking. 2b)
Other person declines by not engaging your hand.

How consenting kiss works: 1) You lean in and pucker up. 2a) Other person
consents by closing part of the distance in the same manner. 2b) Other person
declines by not closing the distance (At which point you should stop and
evaluate your position on this situation).

How molesting works: 1) You stick your hand in a woman's pants. _Just because
she engaged you with a kiss does not mean she consents to any more! Any
implied consent in your head is merely for your own expedience. If asking
permission is enough to end an encounter then you don't have consent!_

How consenting contact works: 1) She gives enthusiastic consent 2) You touch
her within the new boundary.

~~~
swombat
Oh ye of little (14? 13?) experience, please allow me to introduce you to the
concept of a power relationship.

You'll find that a lot excitement in sex is based around that concept. See S&M
for extreme examples of people who most definitely keep pushing the power
relationship boundaries until the other person says "no". However, you don't
have to go all the way to S&M to find this. Most consensual sex is filled with
little dares and attempts to push the boundaries. The other kind of sex, where
you just do what is expected and never cross any lines, is generally known as
"boring crap" and shunned by parties who actually know what the fuck (pun
intended) they're talking about.

With that said, we all deserve to be downvoted into oblivion for this
retardedly off-topic thread. Let the slaughter begin.

~~~
parfe
> _See S &M for extreme examples of people who most definitely keep pushing
> the power relationship boundaries ntil the other person says "no"_

If only the BDSM community had some sort of system where rules and boundaries
were laid out prior to anything happening. Oh wait, responsible BDSM
participants do exactly that to prevent non consensual activity (also known as
rape). You seem to be implying a participant in BDSM cannot be raped.

> _Most consensual sex is filled with little dares and attempts to push the
> boundaries._

That exact mindset is what led to the encounter in this story turning into an
attack. By telling other people it's ok to treat a woman as if she has granted
full consent until she revokes it you help perpetuate the very culture that
leads to events like this story. The guys in this story almost certainly think
the same way you do, and you reassure them that they did nothing wrong.

And this whole idea that you have to constantly push boundaries without
permission stems from the childish fear that "If I say something, she might
tell me to stop! Then I won't be able to get my rocks off."

If the 20 seconds it takes to have a, possibly sexy, conversation about
consent ends an encounter you didn't have consent to begin with.

