
Substantial Rise in Catalytic Converter Thefts - Kaibeezy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49767195
======
ttul
It always surprises me that journalists covering property crime don’t expound
on the reasons for the crime happening in the first place. Catalytic
converters, copper pipes, brass fire fighting fittings - these are stolen to
fund the purchase of drugs.

Why isn’t there more discussion of legalization so that addicts won’t have to
steal and cause so much collateral damage to the economy?

~~~
CDSlice
Why would legalization make addicts not have to steal? Why can't they work
(legal) jobs and use that money to buy the (illegal) drugs? Unless the answer
is that legalizing the drugs will keep them from being fired for illegal drug
use while still being able to work their jobs I don't see a connection between
the drugs being legal or not and the method of obtaining the money used to
purchase the drugs.

~~~
philipkglass
Making drugs is cheap. Making alcohol is cheap. Recreational drugs are
expensive at the retail level due to the black market price premium. That's
why there is the stereotype of the thieving junkie rather than the thieving
alcoholic. Both are addicted but only one of them pays black market prices.

For $15 a day a person can spend every hour of it inebriated. $15 a day is
barely a down payment on a black market opioid dependency.

~~~
stochastic_monk
Interestingly, in the US, legal cannabis prices are usually more than double
those on the black market because they’re taxed extremely heavily.

Granted, users of cannabis aren’t* usually as captive as those on opioids, but
the issue remains that legality may not provide the price change desired.

* Edit: corrected typo on mobile.

~~~
o-__-o
>users of cannabis are usually as captive as those on opioids

Gonna need a source for that one, chief.

I can sleep off a weed craving, that’s telling your mind no more slight
dopamine boost. Can’t really ignore your body the same way when it’s going
through opioid withdrawals because all of your chemicals are out of whack.

~~~
stochastic_monk
That was a typo, thanks for the catch! That’s exactly the point I was trying
to make.

------
esotericn
I had my cat stolen a few years back in Hammersmith, London.

Made the car a writeoff as it was a cheap one anyway. I got in, turned the
key, car sounded like a 2-stroke bike, turns out the exhaust had a wee "hole"
in it.

I miss that car. I wouldn't want it back, but it was nice. Mint 2002 Honda
Accord. Oh well.

~~~
Scoundreller
The older the car, often the bigger the engine and cat. On some of those old
pickups, the cat is worth more than the carcass.

------
adammunich
My friend just had thier cat ripped out of thier Prius in Oakland. It took the
thief team all of 7 minutes to accomplish it according to our camera records.

~~~
bluedino
California has seen an insane uptick in converter thefts from Priuses.

Doesn't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a
misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the
wrist.

Can't they charge them with some federal crime since they are altering an
emissions system?

Something needs to be done about scrap metal buyers and the people who sell to
them to weed out the thieves. They will steal anything made from certain
metals and the recyclers will happily buy anything including a pickup truck
full of brand new air conditioning units.

~~~
inferiorhuman
_Doesn 't help that prop 47 in California makes thefts under $1,000 a
misdemeanor, so if you get caught stealing them you just get a slap on the
wrist. _

Oh please. This old chestnut? If the police won't enforce misdemeanors that's
on them, not Prop 47. Misdemeanors can see sentences of up to just under a
year which should provide you plenty of time to punish a thief. Do we really
need life sentences for stealing catalytic converters?

Meanwhile NAPA lists one cat for a 2013 Prius at about $1000 and the other one
at about $500. And those are the cheapie ones that aren't legal to install in
California/NY. A pair of legit cats that're CARB certified (likely only
available through Toyota proper) is going to be even further into felony
territory. To be clear, you may be able to get a legit set installed for less
than $1,000 (and you could have your friend's uncle install a used one on the
sly for cheap I'm sure), but I wouldn't consider that typical and I doubt the
court would bat an eye at charging your typical catcon theft as a felony.

IOW Prop. 47 is not behind the uptick in crime.

~~~
fortran77
This is not an "old chestnut" it's true.

Ever since prop 47, certain crimes like shoplifting and porch piracy have
increased by 10x (an order of magnitude).

You will not spend any time in jail for these crimes

~~~
birdyrooster
Please don’t back up unsubstantiated claims with “it’s true”. Please read HN
commenting rules.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
This type of conversation is an uninteresting back and forth of opinion unless
you provide sources.

~~~
fortran77
[https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/12/proposition-47-cr...](https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/06/12/proposition-47-crime-
statistics/)

[https://www.ppic.org/press-release/proposition-47-linked-
to-...](https://www.ppic.org/press-release/proposition-47-linked-to-increase-
in-some-property-crimes-but-not-violent-crime/)

[http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417](http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=9417)

[https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-
prop47-anniversary...](https://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-
prop47-anniversary-20151106-story.html)

~~~
inferiorhuman
_The ballot measure led to the lowest arrest rate in state history in 2015 as
experts said police frequently ignored crimes that brought minimal
punishment._

IOW, the police aren't doing their jobs. That's not the fault of Prop 47.

~~~
masonic
Police don't pursue by _departmental policy_ set well up the chain of command.

~~~
fortran77
I backed it up with 4 sources, and I get criticized. Meanwhile, someone who
calls the fact that Prop 47 leads to more crime gets honored and venerated
here.

If you want to be pro-crime, fine. That's your right. But don't lie about it.

~~~
inferiorhuman
_I backed it up with 4 sources, and I get criticized._

You left out the part where your own sources contradict your claims.

------
serf
>Place a protective covering over the catalytic converter

sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, given that a catalytic converter is
(necessarily) one of the hottest components on a car.

~~~
embersdev
They make security devices which is essentially a collar on each side with
steel cables between. Makes it virtually impossible to cut it off. It instead
requires you to first take off the device then cut off the cat. This problem
of cat thefts have been a problem in the us for a long time.

~~~
bostik
> _This problem of cat thefts have been a problem in the us for a long time._

Indeed. I don't know what materials the current generations use, but 20 years
ago, at least, the catalytic mesh was platinum.

Unsurprisingly, converter thefts were common enough. (This was back in
Finland, fwiw.)

~~~
saagarjha
Usually it’s platinum, palladium, and rhodium along with some other, cheaper
metals.

------
clouddrover
Muffler and catalytic converter thefts were one of the reasons the New York
City Fleet purchased more EVs:

[https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dcas/downloads/pdf/fleet/NYC-
Fle...](https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dcas/downloads/pdf/fleet/NYC-Fleet-
Newsletter-255-March-8-2019-Reducing-Maintenance-Costs-With-Electric-
Vehicles.pdf)

------
Scoundreller
> Since hybrid cars have two power sources - electric and petrol or diesel -
> the catalytic converter is used less frequently to process pollutants. The
> metals are less likely to corrode, meaning they are worth more and thus
> attractive to thieves.

Is this true? I thought hybrids needed more surface area in the cat because
they don’t get hot easily because of the engine running less (frequently).

------
m0xte
I understand the solution to this is to buy a car with a really small engine
and park it next to cars with really big engines or hybrids. They have much
more valuable catalytic converters so are likely to get nicked before yours
is.

Also if you're in UK and have fully comp cover it should cover replacement
cost minus excess if it's in the described location in the policy over night.

------
dver
Had mine stolen off a Toyota Sequoia. Done in the driveway, alarm on, bedroom
windows open.

It was so clean, not even dust on the ground. Looked like it had been beamed
away.

They hit the whole area in a couple of nights. Four wheel drive vehicles were
popular because of easy access.

To get them replaced was a bit over 5k. My understanding is the thives get
about 50 a piece.

~~~
o-__-o
They werent quiet, you were just sleeping. A hand jig will take one out in 30
seconds or less tho. Good luck waking up to that noise esp if any car is
driving down your road

------
Kaibeezy
With rhodium at £4000/oz and lax enforcement of the Air Weapons Licensing Act
2015, this was the inevitable result.

~~~
ben_w
> This is due to the lack of enforcement of the Scrap Metals Dealers Act 2013
> and its complementary legislation in Scotland, The Air Weapons Licensing Act
> 2015.

Why is scrap metal recycling controlled under a law that is called “Air
Weapons Licensing”?

[http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2015/10/contents/enacted](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2015/10/contents/enacted)

Okay, so technically it is “and licensing” and the article has a typo, but
still why did they put these things together like this?

~~~
jsty
> why did they put these things together like this?

At a glance, it looks to be an act that defines regulations for all matters
requiring licensing (weapons, alcohol, taxis, etc.) that are controlled by the
devolved administration - I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be in one
bill?

~~~
buckminster
I agree it makes sense. I think the reason for the strange title is because,
technically, air weapons are not licensed.

------
mring33621
Chicago, IL, USA here. Facebook marketplace is full of catalytic converters
right now. Right on the front page.

------
scelerat
I have several friends who have had their cats stolen in Oakland in the last
year. Hondas and Toyotas mostly. One friend had his cat stolen from his Prius
three times in one year. He's sold the Prius now.

------
advertising
Friend of mine has a Prius and lives in Echo Park in LA. His cat was cut out
of his car twice in two weeks. Seemed like every person in the chain benefited
from the theft, scrap metal guys, tow truck towing his car to mechanic,
mechanic replacing it and also trying to sell him on a cage.

It was almost like the theives were alerted by the mechanic that he had
replaced the cat.

Theives only make a couple hundred from the cat, insurance pays the mechanic a
couple g’s for a new one plus labor.

~~~
advertising
Should add that his insurance company covered everything both times and
provided rental car but after second time they won’t cover the vehicle anymore
being parked in that neighborhood on the street.

------
philmander
Poor cat

