
Sonder E-Ink Keyboard - walterbell
https://sonderdesign.com/
======
Animats
_" With Sonder all your settings are saved automatically to the cloud."_

Just what we need. _Computer peripherals_ slaved to some external cloud
server. You have a computer right there, able to store stuff. Run programs,
even. You don't want to be tied to some here-today, gone-tomorrow service.
Also, how do you know it isn't sending your keystrokes somewhere?

An API would make more sense. Programs which change the meaning of keys as you
change mode should be able to change the keyboard. Think Blender, with 10
pages of keyboard cheat sheet.

Also, it says "Pre-order. Available Q4 2016." Well, it's Q4 2016. Is it
shipping?

How do they send power over "braided fiber"? Whatever that is.

As a hardware device, it may be perfectly reasonable. Ship the product, get
some popular programs with too many function keys to talk to it, get the price
below $100, lose the ego trip over how cool you are, and dump the "cloud"
thing.

~~~
gambiting
You already can't use your Razor mouse(not to the fullest, anyway) without
signing in with your Razor account. And recently, Nvidia started requiring
that you create an Nvidia account to use their GeForce Experience application.
Super annoying.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
I thought I'd had to sign up for some kind of account to upgrade my graphics
drivers a couple of weeks back but I'd convinced myself it was just a bad
dream... Agreed it is indeed annoying - not to mention that the GeForce
Experience "optimal" settings nearly always seem to be far from optimal on my
hardware.

~~~
gambiting
Yeah, I downloaded it to get "optimal" settings to play Titanfall 2 on my
GTX750Ti, and GeForce Experience just told me that my GPU doesn't match the
minimum requirements and it can't help me. So I ran the game, it selected
default settings for me(mixture of low and medium) and it runs perfectly fine,
at 60fps. Really great help GF Experience there, really fine.

------
anexprogrammer
An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't
help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac
Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing
keys.

However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical
keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy
one. Regardless of how silly the cost.

Then I'd still not look at it until doing something in Photoshop or some other
program I use only rarely!

Edit: It also strikes me as odd not to E-Ink the Command and Option keys so
you can use it on Windows too.

~~~
monk_e_boy
I think it'd be cool for programming, I have RSI and find using the shift key
+ another key painful. I also rarely use the number keys above the letters (I
used num pad) so changing all those keys to the shit_key equivalent would be
neat.

And rearranging some of other keys would be great.

And don't get me started on games, oooooh, how often to I buy a new game and
forget what 'm' does? Knife? Grenade? Pickaxe?

~~~
iheartmemcache
Firstly: RSI is no joke - if you're experiencing pain, there's a non-zero
chance it'll develop into a serious medical condition. (At MIT's Media Lab,
someone's RSI got so bad he couldn't type at all and had to invent an
interface using vocal phonemes to encode common OS actions/lexical keywords to
control his OS (OS X) / editor (emacs) / language of choice (python)).

If you feel even the slightest bit of pain, that's your body signalling to you
'hey buddy, don't do this'. I was suffering from emacs pinky to the point
where my hands were aching hours after leaving my desk. On weekends, my tennis
racket grip was significantly weaker and form poorer. Mapping Ctrl to caps,
right shift to Esc, and buying a $30 MS Ergonomic keyboard solved my issues.
My friends who have had worse issues spent the $300 on a Kinesis (which I had
up until then considered to be snake oil) but it seems to have solved their
issues entirely (and for $300 it's definitely a cheap investment compared to
the opportunity cost of the time invested in physical therapy).

If you're on Linux, you can at the os-level make modal changes. I made the
right-alt key move into a different mode, so I effectively get an entirely
separate key-mapping when that key is depressed. (E.g., hjkl for me is OS-
wide, and sdfg lets me move the cursor. nb. Were I to make this decision
again, I'd use Caps as my primary modifier, [ as my secondary, effectively
giving me four full keyboard maps. Probably overkill but if I were using
something like SolidWorks or Illustrator where having both keyboard and mouse
access available often, I'd be experimenting with a setup like that -- keeping
my right hand always on the mouse, and left for keyboard shortcuts -- biasing
all of the shortcut keys to the left-hand region of the keyboard.)

ErgoDox implements a similar system but on the micro-controller level so you
don't even have to putz with modifiers and it's cross OS. I don't have one but
I would have bought one if I used a desktop more often, simply due to the
trackball-feature (effectively letting one use a mouse without leaving the
home-row -- a 'must-have' for me).

~~~
kentt
Echoing the parent, take it very seriously. One thing that helped me was an
verticle mouse (Evoluent C in my case). There's on one thing that will solve
you're problems, just bit a pieces that will contribute to long term
management.

One other thing is WorkRave which reminds me to take breaks. This is helpful
for my hands, but has been frustrating for getting into the groove of
programming.

~~~
simplexion
The vertical mouse thing being "ergonomic" is nonsense. There are studies that
have shown this. From memory it was generally worse for you to use a vertical
mouse in terms of productivity and comfort.

The only thing vertical mice reduce is wrist movement.

~~~
kentt
Perhaps you might appreciate a different perspective. Broadly speaking,
ergonomic devices are meant to combat repetitive strain injuries. I think of
ergo devices as useful if they give you more variation. They might not be
better positions in themselves, but switching between palms down and palms
sideways when moving from the keyboard to mouse gives you variation that helps
to combat RSI. At the very least, I couldn't put my palm down without pain for
a while, so a sideways mouse is better at least from that vantage point.

------
persimmon_b
Can't help but feel like people are only thinking about programming with this.
For someone who speaks multiple languages, being able to switch between
configurations as easily as you can on a phone seems like it would be super
useful.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Languages, app hot keys, emoji, game controls, custom performance options for
laptop DJs, musicians, VJs, etc...

Many applications.

This looks really interesting. Yes/no depends on key feel.

I wasn't convinced by the Apple chiclet keyboard when I saw it, but I've lived
with one for a year and a half now, and I'm completely comfortable with it.

If this has a similar feel I'll be seriously tempted.

~~~
SonderDesign
The user experience in both the hardware and software is critical, we've put a
ton of work in refining the experience. The laptop module is designed to the
same standard as an existing laptop keyboard (65g, 1.2mm travel and similar
force profile).

------
the8472
Not exactly a novel idea, the optimus maximus keyboard has been a concept
design in 2005 and saw a limited production run in 2007. And it supported
colors to boot.

I think its main problem was that it was too expensive.

~~~
masklinn
They're taking preorder for the followup (Popularis
[http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/](http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/)),
for the same $1500.

~~~
Flenser
It's available to buy:
[https://store.artlebedev.com/electronics/devices/optimus-
pop...](https://store.artlebedev.com/electronics/devices/optimus-popularis/)

------
maxpert
I so much wish Apple would have integrated E-Ink in their keyboard keys. I was
kinda hoping from the leaks it to be true but sad :( Instead of removing
function bar and putting in a stupid LCD this would have made more sense. If
they were dying to put in an Apple watch display in keyboard they could have
done it on trackpad!

Disclaimer: Despite all this Macbook remains my fav laptop, no other laptop
including surface compares to integrated experience.

~~~
feketegy
What integrated experience when you can't even connect your iPhone to your Mac
without an adapter?

~~~
mbreese
There are better arguments for Apple's connectivity issues. I haven't had to
directly attach my phone to my Mac in years. Sure, there are use-cases, but
really, how many people plug their phones into their computers on a regular
basis?

~~~
lostlogin
Getting anything you make onto an iPhone from Xcode would be my pain point.

~~~
Gracana
Maybe your employer can purchase the appropriate cable for you, so you aren't
burdened with another dongle.

[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-
lightni...](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0X2AM/A/usb-c-to-lightning-
cable-1-m)

------
brokenmachine
Is it really that hard to remember keys for different applications that you
need expensive displays on every key?

Learning to touchtype has been the most efficient use of my time ever.

As a mechanical keyboard user, chiclet non-mechanical keys just feel like
garbage to me now. Like my laptop which I hate using only because of the
keyboard. Absolutely no tactile feel at all. Just mushy little islands that my
fingers can never find the center of. Absolutely horrible, it's ridiculous to
me that all laptops seem to be going in that direction now.

I'm blaming Apple and it's victims for another form-over-function mess just as
bad as the one-button mouse they also championed.

And after using the Ergodox fulltime now, I'm totally ruined for staggered
layout standard keyboards. They feel so silly having to do ridiculous
contortions with your fingers.

I'm not the target market I guess...

Ergodox FTW!

~~~
blisse
Absolutely it's hard to remember keys. Trying to remember hotkeys when I
switch between Visual Studio, Android Studio, Adobe Photoshop, and Adobe
InDesign is actually quite annoying. More so with Photoshop and InDesign.

Anyways it's still nice to have.

~~~
riprowan
But how will the Sonder keyboard help you to remember hotkeys? Maybe I'm
missing something. I can understand how it can show me that option-shift-2 is
the Euro symbol but how can it show me that command-G is "Paste Only MIDI
Notes"?

~~~
brokenmachine
I don't even see how it will show you that option-shift-2 is the Euro symbol.
You'd have to already be holding down option-shift for it to show up, wouldn't
you?

So you'd have to already know most of the shortcut.

This product seems like a solution in search of a problem.

------
vikstrouss
I've had a logitec keyboard with a small display on it and the software was
terrible. There were enough people writing things that interact with it, so it
was useless most of the time.

I think the software is what will make or break this concept. It needs to be
hackable. It should probably define a standard generic interface. People need
to be able to integrate it into various applications in complex ways. It'll be
weird to have multiple applications that try to change the layout in their own
ways, so you need a daemon that makes the final decision and you need a
simple, intuitive but powerful way to control this behaviour. If not done
correctly, it'll be a nightmare and/or completely useless.

------
bajsejohannes
This seems like a good direction for our keyboards, but I don't understand why
they don't let _all_ keys be changed. Specifically, caps lock. Caps lock
functionality is completely useless to me, and I suspect most people.

~~~
SonderDesign
The current design does, we didn't on the first prototype because we were
using an existing display. I've answered the detail of why (search for NRE).

------
Quequau
This is the sort of thing that I'd prefer for a second generation so I could
get one with all the kinks ironed out.

Also for all those folks saying they don't look at their keyboards while
typing: I don't either, except for when I have a particular key stroke
committed to muscle memory, which is to say for all new applications that I
would like to begin using.

Having something like this would substantially lower the barrier to entry for
all keyboard centric apps. So to me it's worth it, even if I know going in
that I wouldn't always look at the changing keycaps when I used them.

All that said, I gotta admit that now that I know Apple's Touch Bar is a
thing, I would very, very much like to see it, or something like it, stuck on
this keyboard.

------
IgorPartola
Hmm. The keys with the transparent cap actually don't look great to me. Also,
why do we keep losing the number pad? I use it quite a bit, and it's one of
the main reasons to use a dedicated keyboard rather than the built-in one.

Also, I really want to like Bluetooth. Built-in generic connectivity! Yet, at
least once a day I have to reset a connection between my MacBook and a
peripheral, or my phone and a peripheral. Touchpad batteries died and need to
be replaced? Yeah, that's a reboot. Headphones won't connect? Re-pair. I hate
that my Logitech keyboard comes with a dongle, but it works and I get why they
included it.

~~~
tomcam
All your points are so simple and so very true.

------
Veen
It looks cool, but I don't like that the e-ink displays are deep in the key
caps rather than at the top. Perhaps it's a technological limitation.

~~~
anotheryou
Almost looks like they went for one big e-ink screen underneath and moved the
mechanics out of the way between the keys. The "blueprint" also shows such a
rectangle that could be one big screen just behind the changing keys.

I wouldn't order it before not reading a review about how the feel of the
probably new mechanics is.

How black is black on backlit e-ink? I'm thinking of an inverted theme,
because I don't want a keyboard glowing white all over at night.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
It's almost certainly a single display. Mini-caps would be expensive and very
difficult to build reliably.

The e-ink displays I've seen aren't brilliant at black. It's usually somewhere
between 50% to 75% gray. That may well be enough, but I think a lot of people
are going to want to see a production sample before buying.

~~~
SonderDesign
The contrast on the new displays are much better, the spec for E readers
(encarta) displays are more forgiving given the application.

Mini caps would be expensive and also not a good look as each display has an
IC driver bonded to the glass substrate so you would have this large border
for each key.

I totally would want to get my hands / of fingers on one before selling too.

------
anotheryou
I wonder if it's fast enough to respond to modifier keys.

~~~
echelon
That would be amazing for teaching vim! I've been using vim for a decade and
I'm always learning new things about it. A modal keyboard would be incredibly
instructive.

~~~
anotheryou
my thinking :) I'm currently on my 2nd attempt to learn some vim :)

It would need a good api, too if you want to react to chained keystrokes or
application states/modes.

~~~
nsomaru
It's worth it. Once you grok it, you'll be composing new movements + actions
and before long you will be 'thinking in vim'. You also need a very small
subset of stuff to begin being useful (actions, moments, modes). After that
learn about macros/registers, buffers and windows and you're pretty much good
to go.

------
Kenji
And here I am looking down at my keyboard, which looks like this:
[http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/81amtBk%2BvqL._SL1500_...](http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/81amtBk%2BvqL._SL1500_.jpg)

And wondering what an E-Ink Keyboard is good for in the real world (this is a
genuine question).

~~~
deelowe
First step in playing a PC game is to go into options and try to memorize the
controls. This could be useful for gaming or specialized applications like
CAD.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Nah. Displaying keyboard shortcut hints on screen next to the button at
mouseover, which many applications have done for at least a decade, is much
more efficient. Constantly looking down, looking up again, looking down etc.
is terribly inefficient.

~~~
clarry
I think there's better use for screen estate than placing buttons on them when
you already have a hundred or so buttons available at your finger tips.

------
SonderDesign
Hi HN,

I'm one of the engineers working on the project, if you have any questions
please ask.

~~~
y80
It says on the site that all your configurations are saved automatically to
the cloud. How exactly do you go about achieving this? Is there any way to
disable this functionality?

~~~
SonderDesign
Best analogy is like dropbox, I have files stored on my terminal, but if I
want I can back it up online and download new files to my machine. It's just
an option that creative design professionals constantly request so it had to
be included in the scope.

~~~
y80
So it requires us to install an extra piece of software on the device that
isn't just a driver to be able to use the keyboard? Sounds cumbersome,
especially since you make it sound like it's not optional. Can it be disabled?

------
mschuster91
Too bad the fn/ctrl/alt/cmd keys are fixed. I'd love a keyboard that can
seamlessly switch between Windows/OS X mode...

~~~
nv-vn
Ironically, the most important keys to change have been seemingly ignored
here.

~~~
SonderDesign
We've addressed this in other comments but it was a display MOQ issue; the
current design has all keys remappable.

------
louhike
Too bad it seems to be aimed mostly for mac computers. I suppose it can work
on both, but the position of fn/ctrl keys will make it hard to use for people
used to the "PC way".

It looks great otherwise, even though I'll be curious to test the feedback of
the keys as the mechanics seem to be on the sides of each, and not under as
usual.

------
eb0la
In some countries like Spain law requires keyboarda must be localized (except
if you're buying as a company).

In this case technology makes law pointless

~~~
officialchicken
Unfortunately software can not remedy an essentially hardware issue no matter
the laws and tax/vat requirements for purchase.

> In this case technology makes law pointless

Spanish keyboards usually have 1 extra key so they are typically 105 keys; in
Japan they are 109 keys. From my experiences in Spain, if you are buying as a
company (even if you purchase it at Carrefour or El Corte Inglais) you will
pay a small premium for those non-local keyboards.

------
ape4
Might be good for Asian languages or mathematical symbols.

------
ars
It's a cool idea, but why are the keys so flat and smooth and untextured?

How can you type if you can't feel the keys under your hand, or if your
fingers slide around instead of being centered on each key?

~~~
nine_k
The keys are screens. They won't need the caps to distort the e-ink images.

------
ianai
I really want to like this, but I never look at the keyboard. I wish this were
a general purpose display.

~~~
ZenoArrow
A general purpose e-ink display?

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-world-s-
first-e...](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-world-s-first-e-ink-
monitor-13-3#/)

I have one. They work fine as a second monitor (no Linux support yet though,
Windows and Mac only).

~~~
ianai
Yes exactly that but affordable.

~~~
ZenoArrow
I agree that they're currently expensive. Better hope that enough people pay
the early adopter cost then.

~~~
ianai
It's worth it for my eyes but that doesn't change my pay.

------
azenet
The point of shortcuts are to learn them.. buying a $200 keyboard just to look
less at the keyboard is pointless. If I were a buyer I'd wish it wasn't
bluetooth only, though.

~~~
tarikjn
It's not, if you plug it in, it relies on the wired connection:

    
    
      To charge the internal battery, simply plug in the braided
      fiber cables – perfect also when you want to eliminate input
      lag.

------
codezero
This site is totally devoid of technical details. Does anyone have any? What's
the ppi on the keys? etc...

We're in Q4 so is there a more precise estimate of availability?

~~~
SonderDesign
Did you click on the /keyboard page, it has the technical details. We're
coordinating with E ink but schedule is shipping around Christmas.

~~~
codezero
I did check. I didn't see anything about the eInk tech being used. What's the
resolution, ppi, contrast ratio, refresh capability, etc?

Also, who are you? It's pretty rare for an engineer working on a cool project
on HN to be reticent in sharing who they are, but maybe I missed the thread.

------
fit2rule
"settings saved automatically in the cloud" .. ermm ..

No thanks.

~~~
legostormtroopr
I saw that too, syncing my keyboard up to the cloud? No thanks.

------
pc2g4d
This general idea is brilliant. Think what it does for discoverability of
application functionality. I'm sure Chrome (where I'm typing this) has a
multitude of useful shortcuts that I'm not aware of but that my keyboard could
be teaching me. Suppose I push Control and every key changes to show what
would happen were I to combine it with the Control modifier. Same for games---
could save me a few hundred peeks at the Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup help menu.

As I've said in another comment recently, there seems to be a lot of
innovation around keyboards right now---Apple's Touch Bar, RGB keyboards, this
e-ink thing. I'm excited for the possibility of new standards emerging and new
ways of interacting with existing applications being developed.

------
SRSposter
>Sonder proudly acknowledges our partners:

>Foxconn

~~~
__david__
And…? I'm missing the significance.

~~~
SonderDesign
They have a terrible reputation for worker safety and mental health.

As a startup, our strategic partners are incredibly important, we did a study
into our supply chain to ensure it's ethical and responsible. Despite the
tragedies in the past; Foxconn is the safest, they offer counseling for mental
health. , They have a worker population of over a million, statistically the
tragic incidents are actually a few times less common than the rest of the
Chinese population and around 7 times less than the states.

I lived on their campus for around 5 months, Foxconn takes this very seriously
and is doing it's best. From the little things like on average a 15% wage
increase year on year for the last few years (seriously), to programs where
workers can learn English and other skills.

It's frustrating they have bad PR, one thing living on campus you see is in
Chinese work culture, you will nap at your desk at lunch for about an hour or
so; when reports emerged they used footage and said works were worked into
exhaustion.

------
golergka
Optimus has been released 9 years ago.

[http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/](http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/)

------
beeforpork
Is the API/protocol to program the key displays open and well-documented so
there can be Linux and BSD drivers? (I'm thinking gimp, emacs, and xfig(!).)

~~~
SonderDesign
I work mostly on the electrical side but we do interact a lot with the
software devs (I can code but only in C++), it's not gospel but I think the
scope for the software is an open API.

------
Schwolop
How have you found ATPi as an incubator/mentors?

For the HN audience, ATP-Innovations has one of the better track records as an
incubator in Australia and works mostly with universities to commercialise
research projects. This is one of the few examples I've seen where a student-
led project (through Sydney University's Incubate) has progressed to this
stage.

I'm hoping that's a sign of promising things to come!

------
0xCMP
So here I am about to pre-order and I think: "This render looks a little
thicker than the magic keyboard I have" and it makes me wonder if it's
different.

According to the page this keyboard is physically the same to the Magic
Keyboard in height, width, depth, and weight. Somehow I don't believe that,
but I'd love confirmation cause it'd be awesome. I could just swap this in for
where I have my magic keyboard now.

------
ZenoArrow
I like the idea, but I don't like chiclet-style keys, I prefer the action on
other key types. Hopefully there's room for some variety.

------
cordite
Whenever I hit add to cart, it just goes back to the home page. Could use
better UX

~~~
SonderDesign
Can you email our team at gday@sonderdesign.com, perhaps they can help.

------
PudgePacket
Heh, tough crowd. I like the idea :) If I hadn't just dropped money on a
keyboard recently I'd be strongly considering. The potential integrations with
emacs and the keys changing would be fun.

~~~
SonderDesign
You can only learn from critical analysis, we like a tough crowd.

------
thebigspacefuck
If you're looking at your keyboard, you're doing it wrong.

~~~
aq3cn
That's why I go with Das Ultimate keyboard which does not even have any labels
over any keys. This is a best way to keep noobs away from my workplace.

------
herbst
Now please one with cherries. I am dreaming about embed screens since the
optimus maximus and knew when eink became a thing that someone would do this!

------
Fej
This sounds useful for gaming where key bindings change per
game...unfortunately it doesn't have mechanical switches and has flat keys,
making it all but worthless for that purpose.

------
funkaster
weird that they are using an Apple keyboard as the design base. That's a
horrible keyboard. I'm still not convinced in these "dynamic" mini-screen
keyboards. I almost never look at my keyboard anymore. At work, I have a WASD
V2 87-Key[1] keyboard with blank keycaps (I use programmer's dvorak as my
layout) and it's a delight to type in.

[1]: [http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/](http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/)

~~~
obrajesse
The Apple keyboard they reference is one of the classic Apple mechanical
designs using high quality ALPS switches. It's...very different than modern
Apple keyboards.

------
yannickmahe
My use case for this will be the switch from French Azerty to Chinese Qwerty
(bilingual speaker). I would buy this in a heartbeat if it had an attached
numpad.

~~~
SonderDesign
The second unit is an attachable numpad that can be used as a standalone or
connects magnetically.

~~~
yannickmahe
Nice. I'll be buying.

------
jcoffland
Please don't make it easier for people to type emojies.

~~~
aq3cn
anyone can press ctrl+cmd+space to insert emoji in mac anywhere.

~~~
jcoffland
Just because you can does not mean you should.

------
davesque
I would be interested in this if it was fully programmable (including the
control keys) and had things like hot keys for layers.

------
beedogs
2 years from now, Apple will release a laptop with a keyboard like this in it,
and claim to have invented e-ink.

~~~
aq3cn
Lenovo already released a Halo keyboard in Yoga book.

[http://www.windowscentral.com/lenovo-yoga-
book](http://www.windowscentral.com/lenovo-yoga-book)

I don't kow if it is any different from e-ink keyboard.

~~~
cben
IIUC the Yoga Book keyboard is fixed QWERTY image that can be backlit. And
it's a flat touch surface, no moving keys.

The Sonder keyboard has the holy grail combination* of movable keys _and_
ability to change their labels. Others have tried this, but not like this (Art
Lebedev used a display per key, which was extremely expensive; Tactus use
microfluidics to raise bumps on top a touchscreen but don't quite qualify as
moving keys).

* Yes, the sceptics here have a point that looking at your keyboard is not very necessary. Whatever, I want it :-)

------
bitwize
Not even Cherry or ALPS keyswitches.

Pure gimmick. Not useful for real work. Better luck next time, boys.

~~~
bartvk
Maybe for you, but I've done real work on keyboards that didn't have Cherry or
ALPS keyswitches.

------
moron4hire
Any chance of a Windows layout for the 90% of the market not running macOS?

~~~
SonderDesign
Yes, the current model is a larger display, all keys are remappable!

------
contingencies
I submitted this a month ago but nobody upvoted it.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12625702](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12625702)

~~~
cooper12
Probably just the luck of the draw, but Apple's recent TouchBar news and
rumors of an e-ink keyboard
([http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13328710/apple-e-ink-
keyb...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/19/13328710/apple-e-ink-keyboard-
macbook-sonder-rumors)) likely increased the interest in such a device.

------
jmcdiesel
$200 with no numpad - nope.

~~~
bartvk
The Sonder commenter said: "The second unit is an attachable numpad that can
be used as a standalone or connects magnetically"

I'm not sure what he/she means exactly, but there is apparently a numpad
coming.

------
GrumpyNl
slowest site ever.

~~~
rwmj
Turning off Javascript actually improves the site.

------
neves
Sorry, but you can't beat Brazilian standard committees. We are the country of
3 pins jacks, of Pal-M TV (not PAL, not NTSC), and of the ABNT2 keyboard.

Yes, our keyboards have 14 keys on the second line of keys. Even if your
keyboard can rewrite all the keys on the fly, you can't make it compatible
with the stupid Brazilians ones.

Try harder next time.

