
Why Are Educators Learning How to Interrogate Their Students? - Jerry2
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-are-educators-learning-how-to-interrogate-their-students
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rdtsc
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“Handling tears” appears, with a blank space underneath for trainees to take
down Buckley’s dictation. “Don’t stop,” Schneider wrote in her notes. “Tears
are the beginning of a confession. Use congratulatory statement—‘Glad to see
those tears, because it tells me that you’re sorry, aren’t you?’

\---

Nice, beautiful. First lie to them, scare them, suggest they were guilty, then
watch them cry and then use that against them.

From the companion article from New Yorker on Reid Technique
([http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/12/09/the-
interview-7](http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/12/09/the-interview-7))

\---

You expand on themes that trigger the right response. It can take minutes or
hours. You might even lie: “Why were your fingerprints found on that gun?”

\---

I guess it is worth repeating ad nauseam don't talk to the police or agree to
be go to the station "just to chat". I guess the advice is to teach students
that school administrators are hostle just like police, and never talk to them
and/or familiarize them to counter-act the Reid technique so they identify and
are aware of what is happening.

To expand on the last point, it is worth pointing out that just like the
polygraph, this Reid technique also becomes an Achilles Heel against a more
prepared subject. For example, I remember reading about Aldrich Ames, a high
level CIA employee was giving information to the Soviets during the Cold War.
He passed several routine polygraph tests while doing so. The reason was
because he was trained to do so by his handlers, and also because examiners
believed polygraph is a reliable tool. If subject passes such an advanced
test, they can't be lying.

Likewise, a good criminal (well, ok, a good criminal will never find
themselves caught), but still, they could learn the idea behind the Reid thing
and understand what is being done. Go through the whole process, and then at
the end the investigators would be convinced "well, we used our advanced
technique on him, he didn't confess, he must not be guilty" and so on.

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superuser2
>and never talk to them

The principal's office is not a courtroom - there is no right to remain
silent, right to due process, right to representation, cross-examination,
presumption of innocence, burden of proof, or anything like that.

School administrators are 100% within their rights to dispense the same
punishments to uncooperative students as those whose guilt can be actually
established, to escalate discipline (including, in 19 states, beating with
paddles and canes) until the student apologizes/confesses, and to share the
fruits of their much-less-constrained interrogations with police.

~~~
rdtsc
Right. That's why I also added the part to familiarize students with the Reid
technique "They will behave this way, and lie to you, then they are trained to
do this... etc".

In that case the goal is to let interogators think the technique they were
sent to the seminar to learn, is working, it is just that the student is not
guilty.

"The don't talk" advice would be not give them anything to share with the
police. But then can't win, because silence will be met with punishment as
will be seen as a sign of guilt (just like crying).

> including, in 19 states, beating with paddles and canes)

How common is that? I understand they are laws that allow it, some are archaic
and are in books because nobody bothered to eliminat them. I've heard of just
calling the cops and let cops cuff them and take them away. Seems like beating
them in school building, by school staff, would invite more lawsuits, and if
anything they will go to extreme lengths to avoid lawsuits.

~~~
portlander12345
Over 100,000 paddlings per year on the books in public schools.

~~~
eru
Sources?

~~~
dalke
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States)

> According to the Department of Education, over 166,000 students in public
> schools were physically punished during the 2011–12 school year.

~~~
eru
Thanks! That's pretty barbaric. In Germany even parents can't beat their kids
any more.

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fiatmoney
The Army Field Manual on "Intelligence Interrogation", beginning on page 3-11,
is good reading on related methods.

[http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm34-52.pdf](http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm34-52.pdf)

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atomicbeanie
Great, teach our "authority" figures to lie, threaten a punishment
"unthinkable" to the perp ( _victim_ ), and have them plea bargain (admit to
anything to avoid such a false accusation and punishment).

Should be titled, how principles are joining into the professional party state
prosecutors have been enjoying for years. "Get more convictions, look like a
pro!" All you have to do is act like a extortionist. Why let the criminals
have all the fun?!

And we wonder why our children's live's are desperate now like the adults?
_And_ we loose some of our brightest stars... RIP Aaron Swartz.

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mirimir
Well, the primary lesson of mainstream schooling _is_ submission to authority.
Plus following schedules. And basic reading and math skills. So no, this is
not at all surprising.

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jMyles
...such an easy decision not to send our kid to public schools. I feel so
blessed to have that choice.

~~~
superuser2
Do you imagine that private schools are better in this regard? From the
stereotypical ruler-swinging nuns up through military-style boarding schools,
it should be obvious that private schools have extremely wide latitude to
discipline students, including physically, and many take their extreme and
draconian disciplinary systems as a point of pride.

~~~
microcolonel
The difference is that they exist to serve the customer, and if you don't want
that for your kid, they will not have it. I don't know how you could come to
the conclusion that there would be NO private schools to suit our sane and
reasonable customer here.

~~~
dalke
That's a naive belief. If 95% of the parents want that and 5% do not - and you
are in the 5% - then the market is less likely to serve your preferences,
unless the market is big enough that a service provider will start up to serve
the niche.

Take a look at Catholic hospitals. They do not exist only "to serve the
customer". They can and do place religious preferences before the health of
the patient, especially in regards to abortion. Non-customer-oriented
preferences even apply in competitive markets. To give another religious
example, Chik-fil-A is not open on Sunday, even though other fast food chicken
restaurants are open and profitable, which shows a customer demand.

Similarly, education is rarely a competitive marketplace. In some towns there
may be only one high school. I believe this is why jMyles felt "blessed to
have that choice."

Even when there is a choice of two or three schools, consider the full
economics. A parent who sends a student to a private school is not the only
customer. If you are in that 5% then your preferences may be ignored because
even if all 5% went to the same school, that would still only be 20% of the
school population. The school may prefer to optimize for the 80% than the 20%.

In addition, religious schools often get support from the supporting church,
which dilutes your economic power. Or a school may get donations from alumni
who want the school to remain unchanged from when they were in school.

Nor did superuser2 say that "there would be NO private schools" which met the
parents' criteria, only that "private schools have extremely wide latitude",
so some are better, and some are worse, than public schools. Some have
draconian discipline _by design_ , hence the question "Do you imagine that
private schools are _better_ in this regard?" than the public schools which
jMyles universally dismisses.

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Spooky23
A: typical modern American management -- shift blame. The knee-jerk response
to accusations of racism or other unfair treatment is to remove discretion
from school employees.

If conducting police interrogations turns little Johnny into a serial killer,
it the Reid program's fault. If expelling a child with a pellet gun seems
ridiculous, it's the Congress's fault.

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AdmiralAsshat
To more quickly funnel them to prison, obviously. What, you thought these were
_children_ they were teaching?

~~~
colejohnson66
_Please_ tell me that was sarcasm

~~~
dalke
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_school-to-
prison...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_school-to-prison_link)

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microcolonel
I learned quickly how to resist interrogation in public school here in Canada.
I said nothing until released.

