
Driving in the US is making a big comeback - pmcpinto
http://www.vox.com/2015/11/25/9800614/peak-car-driving-rebound
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intopieces
Whether driving in the US is making a comeback or not, the lower price of fuel
makes this an excellent time to raise the fuel tax, which hasn't seen an
increase in 25 years [0].

Given the decrepit state of the US infrastructure [1], the funds will need to
be gathered soon if we wish to avoid the deleterious effects of neglect.

[0][http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/ArtWeb/5DDB791947...](http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/ArtWeb/5DDB79194769C2BF852574D5003C28D5?OpenDocument)
[1][http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/](http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/)

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marcoperaza
Thankfully that has about 0% chance of getting through Congress. The last
thing working people need is a tax increase on essential goods.

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pyre
Where to your propose that the money for infrastructure repair/maintenance
come from?

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marcoperaza
The government is collecting plenty of revenue already. If the need for
increased infrastructure spending is pressing, there's plenty of waste and
pork-barrel to cut to make room.

~~~
intopieces
But by cutting spending elsewhere and putting it towards roads, we're still
hiding the cost of driving and subsidizing the use of cars. We've already
bailed out the Highway Trust Fund for at least $65B. It's a hole we'll keep
digging -- a cycle of demand inducement that begets budget shortfalls that
begets general tax hikes -- unless we re-align the tax with usage.

I'm asking for people who use the roads to pay their fair share; you're asking
the government to collect money from everyone so the road-users can keep
believing roads are self-funding. When the users are forced to confront the
true cost, they'll demand better solutions.

In short: we should both cut wasteful spending _and_ re-align the gas tax with
infrastructure expenditures, because the bailout from the general fund is pork
itself!

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marcoperaza
Okay. Then cut taxes by an equivalent amount elsewhere. My point is that I
don't think that it's appropriate for total government revenue to move upwards
at this point. I think that the government can do everything it needs to do
with less money than it's currently spending. Therefore, having the government
confiscate more of the people's wealth is immoral.

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AndyMcConachie
Or it is not. [http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/peak-car-us-
driving-a...](http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/peak-car-us-driving-
america-vmt-vox/417795/)

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jusben1369
Isn't that addressed in there?

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shmerl
Public transportation needs to improve. Especially railroads. They are simply
lacking in a lot of places.

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arbuge
Urban sprawl cities designed with cars in mind (eg. Dallas, Atlanta, etc.)
will not be easy to convert over to public transportation.

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spikels
This is why electric self-driving cars are the future. Door to door service
using existing road infrastructure much more efficiently. Most public transit
systems are so poorly run many will not survive.

~~~
npunt
Exactly. Passenger rail (as much as I love it) is about to be outdated.
Expensive rail projects that amortize costs over >20 years are at risk of
never paying off, because in that timeframe self-driving cars will take over
as the preferred method of transport, because they:

* utilize existing infrastructure (roads)

* get you 100% of the way from point A to B vs having to travel additional distance from stations

* can be gradually introduced with purchasers being those who directly benefit vs big projects dealing with nimbys, budgets, and right-of-way issues where costs-benefits aren't as aligned

* are a drop-in replacement that offer significant improvements in both safety and driver time

* open new business models of cars as service vs as product

* allow commuting from farther away, reducing housing shortages

* offer lower labor costs than buses, so cities may control their own fleets or subsidize private fleets for low income riders

... among many more benefits. Dense urban cores will still find value in
subways that do not take up outdoor space, but for the most part, mid-century
cities are going to be doing a lot of ripping up excess roads/lanes and
parking lots, and making things both denser and greener.

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bkor
This really depends on the city. Go to any Asian city where people have loads
of scooters and motor bikes. These take up way less space than a car. You'll
see that the roads cannot handle the traffic at all. From my impression US is
very car centric. Once you do away with that a lot of assumptions you have now
don't apply. I like my public transport and cycling.

~~~
spikels
No problem: self-driving electric scooters and motor bikes - not too far
behind cars.

[http://www.notimpossiblenow.com/the-latest/google-self-
drivi...](http://www.notimpossiblenow.com/the-latest/google-self-driving-
motorcycles)

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jusben1369
There is no doubt that cheaper gasoline is helping. But right now in the US we
seem blind to the actual strength of the economy. Car sales are about to have
one of their best years _ever_. We had such a bad downturn coupled with bad
economic news from Europe then China. Add to that a Republican primary that
thrives off a negative economic message and you can see powerful forces at
work to drive home a message that the economy here is still pretty bad or
hanging in the balance. Data like this is "surprising" mainly in that context.

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knieveltech
Surging economic indicators and cash in working people's pockets (or jobs for
that matter) don't exactly correlate.

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Spooky23
Before you make your population adjustments, compare the 1997 workforce
population to today's. It hasn't grown with population.

Also, the workforce is less well compensated than it was. I recall from my
days in high school and college in the 90s a retail manager at the mall could
afford a decent used car on their salary. Now, the car costs double and the
salary is 10-20% more.

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adventured
A retail manager at a mall today can afford a 2012 Camry for $12,000 to
$13,000 at 40-50k miles (or a few other competing vehicles). They're handing
out record low rates on car loans, to pretty much anybody with an income.

~$268 per month, four year car payment

$40,000 salary / $2,400 per month disposable income

[http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Retail_Manager/Salar...](http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Retail_Manager/Salary)

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quanticle
How much of this is simple demographics? As the Baby Boomers started retiring,
driving saw a downturn. Now, as the Millenials are starting to hit their
thirties and starting families, driving is ticking back up again.

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brudgers
I suspect that stimulus spending on "shovel ready" transportation
infrastructure also plays a role. Many of those projects are coming
online...at least on the roads I use and are making travel easier. Also, cars
have gotten better.

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ZanyProgrammer
Or...the less partisan and probably answer: The economy has just gotten better
and people can afford to drive more.

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alistairSH
Better economy, cheaper gasoline, but most importantly... numbers that weren't
adjusted for population growth.

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nostrademons
The second chart is population-adjusted and still shows a sharp uptick, it's
just not an all-time high.

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dogma1138
How many of those are Uber drivers I wonder... ;)

