
You're never too old to learn to code - devhero
https://dev.to/anthonydelgado/too-old-to-learn-to-code-ank
======
buserror
While I agree that in principle you can learn to code at any age, I think this
article misses the entire point of _every_ "learn to code" article. Whether
it's kids, women, oldies etc etc.

Coding is a calling. You can learn _anything_ if you have the calling for it.
If you learn because you 'should' (ie, it's encouraged by others and or/money)
you will end up being average at it, at best.

Coding is _not_ for everyone, it's a pipe dream. It's not because all modern
tech is based on it that you should learn it -- same way as Lewis Hamilton
doesn't need to be a car mechanic to be a good driver.

I've started programming at 12yo, got my first paid gig at 16, and I haven't
stopped being a 'programmer' (as they used to be called) since, and I'm now
49yo. I can't imagine NOT doing any 'coding'. In that time I saw countless
average/bad programmers (and there are more and more of them) who /probably/
would have been better trying to follow a calling of their own...

As far as having a successful career as a programmer, I think there is one
major trap I've seen many, many programmers fall into. And that is 'mind
sclerosis' \-- ie refusal to evolve with the time/tools. People who are
actually quite/very good at one set of tools sometime refuse to evolve and
down these favorite toys in favor of what is perceived (often, they are) as
inferior replacements. Problem is, 5 years down the line, they are no longer
employable. I've seen that too many times to count.

The NEXT trap is to realize that your time is limited. You can't learn
_everything_ and you have to be very, VERY selective on the set of tech you
want to invest your time in. Don't bangwagon on stuff -- ask yourself whether
it's likely to be a selleable skill -- if not, don't waste time on it.

~~~
petra
>> you will end up being average at it, at best.

What's wrong with being average and making a living ? assuming of course
there's place for average people in this field ? someone need to write those
simple but boring CRUD.

~~~
samsonradu
Well, there's nothing wrong besides your job security, which will erode over
time due to competition (low-barrier to being average) and also because your
tasks could/will be automated.

This stands in many other industries of course, but the point is that not
pushing for being better is not a viable long-term strategy if you need to
earn a living from it.

~~~
signal11
Very good point. Eventually the routine stuff gets automated. For instance [1]
is an attempt previously covered on HN to generate code from an interface
mockup/screenshot. Obviously this'll take years of work to perfect, but
because UI wiring code is pretty routine for simple forms, I can totally see
this working eventually.

[1]
[https://github.com/tonybeltramelli/pix2code](https://github.com/tonybeltramelli/pix2code)

------
jillesvangurp
It's not so much bias but demographics. The amount of people in the software
industry has been doubling every five years since programming became a thing.
At 43, that means I mostly get to work with people much younger than me. The
median age seems to be about 28. I also have friends that are in their fifties
of which there are even less than my age group . For every 50 year old there
are four 40 year olds, 16 30 year olds, and so on.

I actually think it's great. Keeps me young and valued because experienced
people are so scarce.

~~~
droidist2
Absolutely! Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob) also has this view, and I think it's
much more true than the "once you hit 40 you get forced out of engineering and
into management" meme.

~~~
some_account
Older people have a hard time keeping up with young guns who sit on their
spare time however. You usually have family, kids, less energy etc as a 40
year old. Experience is good but I've found that it's impossible to know new
things as well as young people since you have a life outside work.

According to jetbrains survey, 85% of developers work on weekends.

~~~
workinthehead
All the young people I know are frittering away their evenings and weekends
drinking and going to festivals. The idea that they are poring studiously over
some machine learning textbook is pretty laughable.

------
YeGoblynQueenne
People in tech like to think that they are logically, even scientifically
minded but the truth is we are all subject to cultural bias, just as much as
the next person. This silly idea that computers are a young man's game is
going to come back and bite a great many people in the behind in a few years,
when they naturally age and find themselves over what they previously
considered the age threshold for the job they still love to do. I'm pretty
sure that, when that time comes, the majority view will slightly shift: "you
need experience to program a computer well".

Yes yes- as one grows older, one learns more slowly etc etc. I will quote the
words of Rita Levi-Montalcini:

“At 100, I have a mind that is superior – thanks to experience – than when I
was 20” [1].

Would it that we could all have as long, productive and intellectually
rewarding life as she had. Is all I'm going to say.

_______________

[1] [https://iainews.iai.tv/articles/rita-levi-montalcini-the-
nob...](https://iainews.iai.tv/articles/rita-levi-montalcini-the-nobel-prize-
winning-scientist-with-a-lab-in-her-bedroom-auid-1046)

~~~
dalbasal
Also, the origins of this bias are fairly arbitrary.

First, there is a real reason. Young people are more likely to be engaged with
newer knowledge, technology, tools and such. That's balanced against older
people being more experienced. It's particularly relevant in the software
space, but the youthful exuberance VS experienced sobriety trade-off exists in
all fields. Think of medicine, architecture, art...

The bigger reason (imo) for the bias is entirely arbitrary. Software is a new,
rapidly growing field. There aren't many 50-something coders because most
people start a profession in their youth and there wasn't as much code in
their youth.

Far fewer people learned to code in the 80s than today. So.. the total number
of people who code is skewed young. People see way more young coders than old
ones. They assume only young people can code.

The point about people learning more new things in their youth is valid
regardless of field.

~~~
gaius
_Young people are more likely to be engaged with newer knowledge, technology,
tools and such_

Citation very much needed. Because that sounds like pure ageism. Who invented
all the devices young people love to consume media on...?

------
Finnucane
I'm in my 50s, but I'm learning to code, but I'm not exactly new to it. I just
didn't do it for a long time and now it's a rather different world from doing
Fortran on 110-baud Decwriters. I got into an electrical engineering program,
but dropped out when I discovered that the number of times they let you fail
differential equations is finite. I ended up with a career in publishing. No
regrets, really, but now publishing like other businesses becomes increasingly
high-tech (I remember editing with a red pencil and doing layouts with waxers
and x-acto knives). I push xml files around and write xslt and xquery scripts.
I wrote our code specs for our ebook program. Now I'm developing a python app
to supplement the terrible proprietary inventory system we use.

I do not call myself an engineer.

~~~
papabrown
Another 50+ guy here.

I've been thinking about getting back into coding after a multi-decade hiatus.
I taught myself to code in my early 20's. Coded through my early 30's and have
been in management roles (involving software development or for technology
companies) ever since.

I went from Perl to Java (hated Java) to PHP and have played around with tons
of languages (just enough to complete the project) in between. Right now, PHP
is my go-to language for my own projects simply because I'm used to it.

I still hack stuff. I run a few websites. I write plugins for WordPress. I
write little PHP or Bash scripts to automate some stuff on my server.

Recently, I've been diving into Swift. I hope to get good enough at that, that
I can get a remote job and semi-retire. For me, working from home would be
almost like working part-time. I don't mean that it's that easy, just that a
lot of management and office politics is so soul sucking that it feels like
you're working 24 hours a day.

It's tough coming back. But, I've never strayed too far from coding to begin
with.

It seems the advantage I have is experience. I've been there and done that
before, even if I wasn't the one writing the code. Even being in management, I
still enjoy sitting in a room with engineers and white boarding solutions.

And having worked in management, I have a better understanding of the "why"
behind features and can suggest different paths to get to the same outcome.

I guess I'll find out if you're too old to code when I start looking for jobs
:-)

~~~
workinthehead
Remote jobs can be tough too. It's hard to get paid what you're worth, and you
have to do extra work to be visible to the non-remote employees so that you
aren't perceived as the guy who does 2 hours of real work while wearing
pajamas.

I thought I had the perfect remote gig a little while ago, but the
organization was so insipid and backwards that I had to leave. I found a job
that's perfect for me and is a short commute and enjoy it way better.

~~~
papabrown
I'm not overly concerned about getting the best rate. If I wanted to make the
maximum possible I would stay in management and ride things out until
retirement.

I have savings that I don't want to have to tap into so I can just let it grow
for another 10 years or so. Really, I just need to make enough to cover my
monthly expenses and have health insurance.

Also, I've managed development projects across multiple continents (US,
Europe, Middle-East, and Asia), so I'm hoping that I have a pretty good
understanding of what management needs to make them feel comfortable.

It's probably a little different for me because I'm not necessarily looking to
advance my career the way someone earlier in their career might. Obviously, I
want to do a good job and add value, but I could just as easily teach scuba
diving or something.

I code because I like it. It also pays better than average. A good combo.

------
kerng
>> In 2016 the organizers of a hackathon threatened to disqualify our team
after 24+ hours of coding for being "too old to compete" even though the only
age requirements at the event were that the participants be 18+.

Wow. Would be great to hear further details around what happened there.

~~~
devhero
We won the hackathon after talking to the judges

~~~
welly
Too old to compete? How the hell did they justify that one? Because you were
too old, you'd have an unfair advantage? What was their reasoning behind that
one?

~~~
jlebrech
too much knowledge.

Maybe the rules should have stated a maximum about of experience for the
chosen tech/programming language.

------
arif_sohaib
What I really hate about articles like this is they try to convince people we
are just rolling in money and job opportunities just staring at our screens
and use that to flood the market with people who don't care about anything but
the money and use them to lower salaries for the rest of us. I don't seem to
come across nearly as much articles like this for nurses, paralegals, chefs
and other such professions that pay as well and might be far more rewarding
for certain types of people and the jobs are probably easier to get, based on
the number of bootcamps and job hunting services solely for computer science
professionals.

~~~
workinthehead
Take a look around you. Anyone who tried to get into coding just for the money
washed out long ago, or if they're lucky they're computer janitors at
gigantocorp.

------
sheeshkebab
No one is too old to learn to code - in particular folks that deal with
quantitative or logic skills in prior career (finance, lawyers, etc).

The issue typically is that it’s hard (for even existing programmers) maintain
the focus to write code 8 hours a day 5 days a week, months on end, at any
age, and so it often doesn’t work out.

------
mabynogy
We miss highlevel IDEs (like Smalltalk, Excel or even Scratch and Eve) for
people who are ready to program something but won't be able to use the
tradional workflow based on shell commands and textfiles.

Expecting people to massively learn programming as we know it is an illusion
and even a scam (like bootcamps).

------
to_bpr
Has anyone ever went the opposite direction (e.g. tech into investment
banking) at a later age, and if so how barrier-absent/non-ageist did that
prove to be?

------
promeus
Ageism is real but i always had other point of view. Whats the root of this
misconception? Management. Young programmers work hard, old programmers work
smart. Young programmers are cheap, old are expensive. Difference is not only
in mental capacity is in expertise how to approach a subject or a task. About
learning in after 40: If someone has the need to learn it will happen. But if
your mind is not suited for the trip, forget it, find something that gives you
satisfaction and happiness..:)

------
jlebrech
don't learn faddy tech, find a bunch of tech you think will last a while and
be confident with them.

------
devhero
Learning to code can be a daunting task at any age but entering a Coding
Bootcamp where the average age range of the students is 18-25 can make an
aspiring web developer who is older feel out of place. I attended a Coding
Bootcamp at the age of 31, and while I am still technically considered a
millennial (And I am super young at heart), even I have felt like there is a
bias in tech/startup culture that leans towards a younger crowd. In 2016 the
organizers of a hackathon threatened to disqualify our team after 24+ hours of
coding for being "too old to compete" even though the only age requirements at
the event were that the participants be 18+.

Although you may face some challenges as an adult coder, learning to code can
be one of the most rewarding things you can do as a human being, and there is
no reason to let societies biases stop you from following your dreams. In this
article, we are going to talk about how you can overcome any potential bias
and how you probably have a lot more advantages than you think.

Let your work speak for itself The beautiful thing about tech is that it is a
show and prove industry. You don't need a license to pimp out your portfolio
or create an epic Chrome extension. Showcase your skills by creating a
collection of side projects and demo applications. This is how your creativity
can set you apart from the pack, regardless of your age. Let your
website/portfolio show your personality and your projects on GitHub; showcase
your creativity and problem-solving skills.

Don't wear a suit Listen, I get it. You want to take your career seriously.
But if you walk into an interview wearing a full three-piece suit & meanwhile
the person interviewing you is wearing a t-shirt, it is going to get a little
bit awkward. I am not saying you have to wear a t-shirt. Do your research and
ask the interviewer beforehand what the dress code is when setting up the
appointment for an in-person interview.

Leveraging Industry Knowledge This is a big one. If you have been an
investment banker or accountant for the last 20 years and you are just
starting a new career in tech at age 45, you might feel as though you have no
relevant work experience, but you couldn't be more wrong.

Today, every company is becoming a tech company in some way shape or form.
(And the ones who don't evolve are going extinct.) Now more than ever,
software developers are in high demand at a wide range of organizations, not
only Silicon Valley startups.

If you are coming from a career in another field, consider applying to the
tech department in that industry or disrupt that industry in a tech startup
that focuses on that vertical. Your domain expertise is super valuable and
relevant at this point. At a FinTech startup, the fact that you have 20 years
experience in finance AND you know how to code is a HUGE asset that can set
you apart from your younger less experienced counterparts.

Project Management Another advantage to having a wealth of previous job
experience is the ability to work with and manage a team of people. If you
ever held any managerial role in another industry, I would highly recommend
taking a course on SCRUM and learning the fundamental principles of running an
Agile Software development team. Your people skills and seniority can be a
benefit to an organization looking for a tech team lead where you are skilled
at coding but also at managing the timeline and product backlog of a project.

Overcoming Bias Depending on where you want to apply, there can be varying
amounts of age bias. The fact is that Millennials and Gen Z make up for close
to 50% of the tech workforce and when you look specifically at Silicon Valley
tech startups, that number is even higher. At some companies, the bias might
be worse than others, and a lot of it is subliminal and subconscious.

Ageism in the Tech Industry is a real thing, but hopefully, this article
provided you with some insights into overcoming age bias and even using your
seniority to your advantage.

Let me know your thoughts in the comment section below.

~~~
Lio
> Don't wear a suit

I guess this varies from country to country but personally I think that's bad
advice.

In my experience it's better to be over dressed than underdressed.

I'm in my 40s and have never worked anywhere that had a formal dress code,
it's always been wear what you want unless you're talking to a customer. I
pretty much expect most dev jobs to be jeans and t-shirts.

I'm a contractor now so do quite a few interviews and a suit to an interview
is an easy choice.

You look like you give a shit when you turn up and you can make a joke with
the interviewer about being overdressed to break the ice.

Much harder to do it the other way round.

~~~
throwaway2016a
Conversely I was hired at a search company (no not that one... or that one)
when I got out of college and wore a suite to an interview. Come to find out
later the suite almost sunk me because they felt I might not fit with the
culture. Fortunately my code stood on it's own.

Today I routinely wear a nice button up shirt and designer jeans (the "cheap"
$80 kind not the $500 ones) to work. Which is overdressed still but I feel it
is a nice medium.'

Occasionally I'll take in a Broadway play (when it travels to Boston) and I
always wear a suite. Sure, half the people there will probably be in T-Shirts
but I like dressing nice. 15 years ago they probably wouldn't have even let
you in without a suite.

Edit: As one might gather from my lats comment. I'm North East USA (New
England). NE is very different culturally from any part of the country. We are
closest to California but here suites are more common.

------
YvetteBrooks
How long did it take for you to go from starting to learn and actually getting
paid for it?

