
An Inside Look at Microsoft’s Newest Flight Simulator - daureg
http://inspire.eaa.org/2019/09/30/an-inside-look-at-microsofts-newest-flight-simulator/
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steve19
> While the team is currently evaluating something like an in-sim store for
> supplemental content, there will be no requirements to use it, and no
> restrictions of any kind on downloading freeware or payware add-ons from
> other sources.

Great news. I was sure when I first heard the announcement Microsoft was going
to try control the market, which would ruin the ecosystem.

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anjc
This looks amazing, and I'd love to switch back to MS after having to switch
to XPlane. However: no VR no buy.

No matter how many improvements they've made, VR + 13 year old FSX will be
much more immersive and useful. It's insane that any sim developer would not
even have VR on their post-launch road map. If running their engine at a
sufficient framerate is an issue for VR, then it's insane that they didn't
consider this from the ground up. Even 25 years ago VR was a consideration for
flight sim developers (anyone remember EF2000 and the VFX1?).

~~~
dreamcompiler
I'm holding out for VR too. The headsets are just not good enough yet. The
view outside the cockpit is easy, but showing the in-cockpit instruments
without pixellation or picket fence effects was not quite there yet last time
I checked.

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anjc
I use a CV1 with XPlane and...OK the instruments are pixellated from a fully
seated position, but lean forward a few inches and they're legible. Any such
issues are fully compensated by the sense of height you gain and positional
awareness. I could never go back to a monitor setup for flight sim.

If my CV1 is fine, I'd imagine that the current headsets are more than
adequate for reading instruments.

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Macha
As a counter point, I have a Vive and while I use it for other games like
Elite or Beat Saber, I can't use it for XPlane enjoyably. Controlling the
flight stick with the motion controllers feel like trying to control it by
poking down on it and is not good for precise or gradual movements.

But I can't map everything to my HOTAS so I need to switch to the motion
controllers if I need to operate the autopilot or adjust the qnh etc.

Even on a Cessna there's enough cause to e.g. match the magnetic and gyro
indicators that it's unavoidable that this quickly becomes annoying.

And yes, reading the instruments is also difficult.

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anjc
I find the touch interface in XPlane to be fine. I can hold one Oculus Touch
controller and also use that hand to hold a hardware yoke and throttle. But I
would be very happy if something could track my fingers and I had haptic pads
on my finger tips.

Definitely agree on trying to use Touch controllers to move the
yoke...frustrating.

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pastrami_panda
This looks very impressive. 60 volumetric cloud layers, plus 20 data layers of
various other atmospheric conditions. Sounds like they're utilizing RTX to
fullest because I doubt this is possible for real-time without ray-tracing
acceleration hardware?

But this part in the article sounds weird to me:

> the new engine brings higher-fidelity collision detection, which makes
> things like bumpy runways, braking on slick surfaces, varying degrees of
> friction, etc. much more nuanced. Under the hood, the development team has
> done significant work with integration, using something called adaptive time
> steps. The upshot is that the simulation now always updates at the same
> frequency as the visual frame rate.

This sounds more like the physics solver can run adaptively at whatever
timestep currently needed, based on the simulation conditions for the frame,
no?

Edit: Sounds like a framedrop results in a dropped physics solver iteration as
well I suppose?

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anjc
They said that they aren't using raytracing I believe. That'd be great if they
did, I don't think there are any killer apps for a 2080ti yet, but this would
certainly be one.

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ladberg
I don't think there's anything here that would particularly benefit from
raytracing. Raytracing usually shines when modeling stuff like reflections,
refractions, and multiple light sources that are expensive with shaders, but I
don't see much of that here.

~~~
pastrami_panda
I thought rendering layered volumetric stuff is where RTX would shine but I
don't know much about that type of rendering tbh.

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LoSboccacc
this extremely interesting video show state of the art techniques used to fake
global illumination without using ray-tracing and compares the result with the
ray-traced variant
[https://youtu.be/CuoER1DwYLY?t=127](https://youtu.be/CuoER1DwYLY?t=127)

long story short moving object color casting light is the main visible
difference that cannot be replicated with traditional techniques (like baking
the light reflection in the scene at built time, but can be faked
convincingly); ray-tracing is also not limited at reflecting elements that are
on the scene like what you'd get from screen space reflection, which is less
noticeable of an effect but is there if you pay attention and know what to
look for.

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NKosmatos
Nice one!!! Having played with many MSFSs in the distant past(90s), I can’t
wait to try this one out. Another page with lots of info:
[https://flyawaysimulation.com/news/4953/](https://flyawaysimulation.com/news/4953/)

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Razengan
Are there any good _space flight_ simulators with hypothetical space craft
with realistic physics?

Do "construction" games like Kerbal Space Program have that?

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Cthulhu_
I don't know if the physics are realistic, but Elite: Dangerous is the closest
thing to a space flight simulator. Distance wise it's realistic at least, in
that even with FTL speeds going 300x the speed of light you take forever to
get to another planet.

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jon-wood
The flight model in Elite is very much tuned for fun rather than accuracy. You
can if you wish turn on a kind of newtonian physics flight model, but even
then I very much doubt its representative of how actual objects in space would
react.

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thelazydogsback
Wow, looks amazing! Quite an improvement over V1 of FlightSim. (Nevermind
A2FS1 on the TRS-80, lol.)

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jen729w
...or my beloved F/A-18 Interceptor for the Amiga. I’d love to know how many
hours of my youth were spent on this game.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/A-18_Interceptor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/A-18_Interceptor)

~~~
immigrantsheep
Came here for this :) it's such an old game and I remember it so fondly.

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jacobush
The missions are also so no-nonsense and believable.

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sorenjan
Based on real world data, I wonder if this will get included in mapping
products too? Maybe a Microsoft version of Google Earth?

I know it's called a flight simulator. but can you play and get enjoyment out
it with only a gamepad? I don't know if I want to buy the right hardware for
it until I've tried it.

~~~
o-__-o
I played the original flight sim with keyboard for like 6 years then I got a
mouse and flying was soooooo much nicer that I begged my parents for a
joystick.

That said, ch pro makes a cheap yolk and rudder set that is basically the
defacto entry to flight sims. Otherwise a simple Logitech joystick is all you
need. If anyone knows of force feed back yolks that don’t cost $10k, I am
interested to find them (or start a kickstarter with a few folks to make it
reality)

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pmcjones
yolk => yoke ?

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Hypergraphe
As a long-time simmer, this is really impressive given the state of the art. A
shame they did not adresse properly AI traffic and ATC which is really a big
issue in current sims.

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cjrp
Looking at the videos and how much emphasis they've placed on the quality of
the scenery, I get the feeling this version will be mostly focused on VFR
flying, rather than flying in to big commercial airports with ATC and lots of
traffic.

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Hypergraphe
Agreed, imo atc topic has been neglected by all fs softwares so far because it
is aimed for advanced users only. I mean it does not sale your product to the
masses.

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sundvor
For ATC in FSX, on a less serious note, you'd be amiss to go past
Airforceproud95's work in his Youtube channel.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeC0ZTT8n7E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeC0ZTT8n7E)
( and his coverage of the new FS:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TY56kA8oY0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TY56kA8oY0)
)

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Hypergraphe
Ha ha yes I know this video ;). I actually tried vatsim a couple of times but
it is not for me, a fully integrated AI solution for ATC would be better =>
adapted real world traffic, SID/STARS management, HOLD patterns, noise
procedures, random events, and a good ui for managing all of this.

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goblin89
TL;DR: New MS Flight Simulator features overhauled flight model, bringing it
closer to (or up to par with) X-Plane; overhauled whole-planet scenery (again,
parity with XP); still apparently no cross-platform support.

I’m a happy user of X-Plane 11, never used MS Flight Similator before. This
update looks very enticing and may compel me to install Windows to try it out
and potentially switch.

I wonder how well it does on navigation realism—compass drifting, radio (nav
aids, ATC communications) and such. X-Plane frustratingly lacks realistic ATC
in many non-US airports, resorting to “Top-level area controller”, and
sometimes—admittedly rarely—IRL radio navaid frequencies I’d find online are
not replicated within the simulator. If new MS simulator fares better in that
regard, the switch may be imminent for me.

I’m also curious about VATSIM integration, but I’m not too fixed on it as
something I’m yet to actually use.

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omni
Are you running X-Plane 11 with some terrain mods or something? I'm clicking
through some Youtube videos of it and the terrain in X-Plane isn't even close
to what's in this MSFS video.

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goblin89
I was only pointing out that the new MSFS has whole-planet terrain and many
thousands airports, like X-Plane.

Whether the terrain looks better or not I don't know and frankly don’t care
that much, it probably heavily depends on the setup as well.

I heard clouds in MSFS look better. If its weather doesn’t momentarily glitch
out as it is being updated in accordance with real-life conditions, like what
happens in X-Plane sometimes, that’d be nice to have too.

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plg
first thought: ack! I may have to buy a Windows machine

second thought: phew at least it will be a lot cheaper than my Mac and
probably better specs per dollar ;)

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lostmsu
Holy shit that is a level of detail. I can see my house on the picture with
rain in south Seattle!

