
Lift Weights, Eat More Protein, Especially If You’re Over 40 - hvo
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/well/move/lift-weights-eat-more-protein-especially-if-youre-over-40.html?mabReward=ART_TS7&recid=10Dw62jOOFNMOm01S55O0ETnzkP&recp=0&module=WelcomeBackModal&contentCollection=Politics&region=FixedCenter&action=click&src=recg&pgtype=article
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vanderZwan
> _The impacts of this extra protein were not enormous. Almost everyone who
> started or continued weight training became stronger in these studies,
> whether they ate more protein or not. But those who did ramp up their
> protein gained an extra 10 percent or so in strength and about 25 percent in
> muscle mass compared to the control groups._

Maybe it's me, but 10% extra performance and 25% extra muscle mass sounds like
quite a huge difference to me - "not enormous" is technically correct but also
lowered my expectations to a few percentages.

~~~
mikeyouse
* RET = Resistance Exercise Training

* 1RM = 1 Repetition Maximum Strength

 _" The average RET-induced increase, with all measures of 1RM included, was
27kg (mean±SD; 27±22kg22 32). Notably, dietary protein supplementation
augmented the increase in 1RM strength by 2.49kg (9%; figure 2; see online
supplementary figure 4), which strongly suggests that the practice of RET is a
far more potent stimulus for increasing muscle strength than the addition of
dietary protein supplementation."_

 _" In addition to increasing changes in muscle strength, RET alone (≥6;
13±8weeks) resulted in an increase in FFM (1.1 ± 1.2kg), an increase in fibre
CSA (808±) and an increase in mid-femur CSA (52±30mm2). Dietary protein
supplementation augmented the increase in FFM by 0.30kg (27%), fibre CSA by
310µm2 (38%) and mid-femur CSA by 7.2mm2 (14%). The postexercise protein dose
did not affect the efficacy of protein supplementation on RET-induced changes
in FFM whereas training status (positive), age (negative) and baseline protein
intake (positive) did. Relative to untrained participants, resistance-trained
participants have a smaller potential for muscle growth and an attenuated
postexercise muscle protein turnover. As a result, we speculate that trained
persons may have less ‘degrees of freedom’ to change with RET and therefore
have a greater need for protein supplementation to see increases in muscle
mass. Our thesis is supported by the observation of a more consistent impact
of protein supplementation on gains in FFM in resistance-trained individuals
than in novice trainees._"

So working out regularly increases your 1-rep max lift by 27kg. Supplementing
with protein can increases that max that by 2.5kg. Resistance exercise can
increase your muscle mass by 1.1kg and protein can increase muscle mass
further by 0.3kg. There was no difference past a protein dose of 1.6g/kg/day
and supplementation mainly benefit those starting from a higher point of
muscle mass and strength.

[http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjspor...](http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjsports-2017-097608.full.pdf)

~~~
vanderZwan
Ah, thank you. You guessed correctly that I misunderstood to which the
percentages applied (although I blame the phrasing of the article)

------
matte_black
I think we are making a grave mistake by associating going to the gym and
exercise with lifting weights.

Let me explain.

I think what most people _should_ be doing is calisthenics. I’ve been lifting
weights for over a decade, but only started calisthenics two years ago.
Personally, I feel calisthenics gives you a much stronger and durable body
over all compared to lifting weights. It also strengthens your joints and
connective tissues, which people don’t really think about until it’s too late.
Aesthetically, I also feel strong calisthenic trained bodies look much more
well proportioned and hardened due to the active use of stabilizer muscles.
People who have trained calisthenics for a long time are deceptively strong.
They don’t look particularly huge, but they perform feats of strength that
even the most professional weightlifter would struggle to do. To me, this is a
sign of true mastery over one’s body.

If you’re just getting started in your exercise career, try _calisthenics_.

~~~
oh_sigh
Do calisthenics have the same effect on bone density(that is, increasing bone
density and decreasing chances of developing osteoporosis) that lifting
weights does?

I agree with your point generally though that the best exercise routine(or
diet) is one that you stick with and progresses you towards your goals.

~~~
pmoriarty
Calisthenics is weight lifting.

It just so happens that the weight you are lifting is your own body's weight
rather than weights external to your body.

------
r0brodz
The benefits of protein are historically documented by all the great
bodybuilders. Nothing new here. Mainstream is always behind the freaks who
dare to go against "science".

~~~
milesvp
Which is amusing, because in this context the bodybuilders are fundamentally
doing science. They have experiments (aka, exercise and eating regiments)
that, as I understand it, are repeatable, and consistently produce the desired
outcome, at least in terms of sculpted muscle and body fat.

~~~
curuinor
Modern bodybuilders don't have incredible life spans, either, so they face the
consequences.

~~~
barsonme
Yeah, pumping yourself full of tren, clen, and designer drugs, as well as
getting up to 400+ lbs will do that to you.

------
thesmallestcat
Protein is good, but not too much from meat:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27479196](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27479196)

> CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE:

> High animal protein intake was positively associated with cardiovascular
> mortality and high plant protein intake was inversely associated with all-
> cause and cardiovascular mortality, especially among individuals with at
> least 1 lifestyle risk factor. Substitution of plant protein for animal
> protein, especially that from processed red meat, was associated with lower
> mortality, suggesting the importance of protein source.

~~~
justboxing
Thanks. Do you know of any naturally-high-in-protein plant-based source that
isn't soy (i.e. tofu etc) or hemp?

Asking cos I've had a hard time finding protein dense plant based
alternatives, and as a vegetarian, it's really hard to get a lot of proteins
from plant-based sources without processed stuff like Vega etc.

I do eat quinoa but 1) it's very expensive and 2) you have to eat 2 or 3 cups
of cooked quinoa to get like 25 gms of protein which is a lot of quinoa per
day.

~~~
racer-v
Plant sources tend to have a higher ratio of calories to protein, so it's
tough if you're limiting calories. Chickpeas, eggplant, and tahini all have
protein; Trader Joe's Eggplant Hummus has all three, but somehow manages to
claim a lower calorie-to-protein ratio than any of its ingredients (not sure
how that can work). Mushrooms are good too. Also seitan if you don't mind
something a little more "processed".

~~~
erikpukinskis
> somehow manages to claim a lower calorie-to-protein ratio than any of its
> ingredients

Hummus usually has more oil added on top of the tahini. And chickpeas are the
main ingredient and they have a lot of starch on top of the protein.

~~~
racer-v
Right, that's why I find their nutritional claim hard to believe: 2g protein
per 35 KCal is better than tahini, eggplant, or chickpea individually.

------
rdiddly
I would add a clarifying conjecture that probably the 1.6 grams per kg of body
weight per day, should be based on your lean weight, i.e. how much you would
weigh with only 10 or so percent body fat. If you're obese and weigh 200kg,
you don't need to eat 320g of protein per day.

------
shdwban
What would be a natural way to find if you're taking enough protein? If my
sleep patterns, digestion, stomach, bowel movement, muscular recovery are
fine, am I taking enough protein in accordance with my workout regimen? Or
could it be that I may be absolutely fine but still taking less protein than
the one my workout requires and hence building up less?

Edit: by natural I mean without using scales, going just by how I'm feeling
and body is doing.

~~~
lemming
From: [https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-
in-...](https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-can-i-eat-in-one-
sitting/)

 _That being said, since fecal losses of protein and short-chain peptides tend
to smell incredibly bad one can use a 'sniff-test' after bowel movements to
assess if protein is being lost in the feces and thus not taken up by either
the intestines or the muscle._

Not pleasant, perhaps, but should be effective :-)

~~~
shdwban
The link was unbelievably informative. Thank you.

------
agnivade
Not even a single mention of the risks of increasing mTor signalling due to
extra protein. You would be well advised to keep that in mind.

~~~
pjc50
First I've ever heard of this, and google tells me that mTor is a unit of
vacuum - could you explain please?

~~~
agnivade
Sure. Check these out -

[https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/...](https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/07/too-
much-protein-triggers-aging-cancer.aspx)

[http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/protein-how-much-is-
too...](http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/protein-how-much-is-too-much/)

------
acconrad
If you want to learn more about the basics of strength training and eating
healthy with more protein, you should watch this lecture from a doctor and
strength coach who would agree with the ask from this article:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsTwcOb_0k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tsTwcOb_0k)

------
deskamess
Is weights better than HIIT for over 40?

~~~
e9
over 40 your main concern is to make it sustainable and avoid injuries. A mix
of moderate weights couple of times a week and HIIT couple of times a week
would work best.

~~~
WkndTriathlete
[citation needed]

I'm mid-40s and have no problem doing low-rep high-resistance (> 85% 1RM) sets
2-3 days per week and alternating with 2-3 HIIT sessions on bike, run, or swim
for triathlon training.

You have to decide what your goals are (endurance = 12+ rep sets at 30-50%
1RM, hypertrophy = 8-12 rep sets at 55-75% 1RM, strength = 1-6 rep sets at 85%
- 100% 1RM) AND you have to have excellent form for the prime mover exercises
(deadlift, squat, bench press, bent-over row) to avoid injury, but with the
right diet, discipline, and proper recovery consistent 5% gains per three- to
four-week cycles are possible

Reference: _Periodization Training for Sports_ by Bompa,
[http://www.humankinetics.com/products/all-
products/periodiza...](http://www.humankinetics.com/products/all-
products/periodization-training-for-sports-3rd-edition)

------
sjg007
How does one start lifting weights or exercising when you have no motivation
to.

~~~
mancerayder
Find a competent trainer - gyms that teach Olympic Weightlifting are going to
have higher caliber trainers than the typical commercial gym full of 'personal
trainers.'

There's a massive technical aspect to learn that puts a more scientific spin
to appeal to people like us.*

* You're on HN, right?

~~~
lafar6502
Training to be better at something that you will never do for real is somehow
depressing, especially if you only do it in a gym. Run or ride a bike, at
least you have a chance to do something useful instead of moving a weight for
the sake of moving a weight

~~~
freehunter
>Training to be better at something that you will never do for real is somehow
depressing

I would argue with the "never do for real" when it comes to weight lifting,
and I would also argue against the entire concept.

You lift weights all the time. Every time you stand up, every step you take,
every time you move any muscle, you're lifting weights. If you're helping a
friend move, you're lifting weights. I bought a file cabinet the other day and
the guy was amazed that I got it into my truck on my own even though it was
50+ pounds... but I think a normal person should be able to lift that much
weight into the bed of a truck no problem. Need to open a pickle jar? Need to
move a couch? Need to carry more groceries in from the car? That's what you're
training for.

And also, people train for things they never do "for real" all the time. Every
time you play a video game you train for something you'll never do for real.
Every time you play guitar but you're not in a band, you're training for
something you'll never do for real. Every time you make a joke if you're not a
stand-up comedian, you're training for something you'll never do for real.
Every time you take a picture but you're not a photographer you get the idea.
You're not really training to be an olympic weightlifter, you're training to
lift that weight right there in front of you. That's just as "for real" as
anything else you do as a hobby.

How is running or riding a bike any more "for real" than lifting a weight?
They're all things you do for exercise to be healthy. No one's running
everywhere they go, running is something you do in order to run, and you run
to get better at running so you can run more. You lift weights in order to
lift heavier weights so you can lift more weights. Same exact thing.

------
xupybd
Anyone have a link the study they're talking about?

~~~
mikeyouse
Yep, it's here:

[http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjspor...](http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/early/2018/01/18/bjsports-2017-097608.full.pdf)

------
yakitori
We get these type of fads every decade. Cholesterol was bad for you then fats
were bad for you. Then it was running. Then hiking. It never ends.

My grandparents lived well into their 90s. All you have to do is eat well and
try to be active from time to time.

But there is a growing weightlifting movement with a healthy marketing
budget...

~~~
InclinedPlane
Many people who smoke have lived into their 90s. That's not a good reason to
smoke. Anecdotes are not data.

~~~
wppick
Data is not the whole picture. Maybe more protein is great for adding muscle
mass, and bad for a different reason...

The article lists beef as it's first source of protein besides protein shakes.
Beef is a class 2A carcinogen. I stopped reading there.

~~~
xupybd
I saw "Beef is a class 2A carcinogen" and suspect you just watched "What the
health"? If so there are claims that that movie got a few things wrong.
[https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-the-health-a-movie-
wit...](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-the-health-a-movie-with-an-
agenda/)

~~~
xupybd
Also class 2A carcinogens are simply a class of things that probably increases
your chance of cancer. That doesn't mean it gives you a huge chance of cancer
most of the time the increased risk is trivial.

To give some context red meat is on the same list as:

    
    
      Hairdresser or barber (occupational exposure as a)
    
      Shift work that involves circadian disruption
    
      Very hot beverages (more than 65℃)
    
      High-temperature frying, emissions from
    
      Household combustion of biomass fuel (primarily wood), indoor emissions from
    

Source
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_2A_carcinog...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IARC_Group_2A_carcinogens)

------
mhb
But can't eat the protein all at once:

 _Research by McMaster University’s Dr. Stuart Phillips and others has found
that if you eat more than 20 to 30 grams of protein at a time, you don’t get
any further anabolic boost. Any extra protein is simply burned for energy;
unlike carbohydrate or fat, you can’t save it for later._

[https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/why-and-when-
you-...](https://www.runnersworld.com/sweat-science/why-and-when-you-need-
more-protein)

~~~
rshannon3
It's not as black and white as that article makes it seem.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJpdPYedWjc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJpdPYedWjc)

