
How People Change - ph0rque
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/27/opinion/brooks-how-people-change.html
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gjenkin
I'm unsure why this is on the HN front page, but while it's there I'll throw
in an opinion...

If the father had done a better job parenting instead of permissively coddling
his children or allowing others to parent them, he would never have had to
write this email.

Parenting is coaching. It's a process of constantly weening children from
dependency after dependency. It can be tough when they cry at every rule you
put in place and at every missed chocolate or toy or tv show. But you have to
be firm, stay true to your vision, and view yourself as saving your children
from "the tyranny of their own desires".

If you want it done right, you can't do it from a distance. You can't
oursource the effort by sending them off to boarding school and hope someone
else will do your job for you.

It's not easy. I have 3 of my own. Perhaps the hardest thing to do is to
realize that the way your kids turn out is largely due to how effectively you
and your partner parent. Yes they make their own choices. But they should make
those choices within a framework of confidence, intelligence and independence
that you as a parent have cultivated.

That's a lot of responsibility. But you have to take it on if you want to
increase the chances of your children having good lives.

Waiting until they're 40 to write them an email expressing your disappointment
is far too little way too late.

~~~
mercutio2
I am in deep agreement with the thrust of your argument, particularly parents
job in relation to "the tyranny of their own desires".

However, I can't agree with "Perhaps the hardest thing to do is to realize
that the way your kids turn out is largely due to how effectively you and your
partner parent."

If you mean you as a parent will have an enormous impact on your child's life-
arc, I certainly agree. But who a child is is often not nearly as malleable as
parents, and especially non-parents think. Parenting matters enormously, but I
can't agree how a child turns out is "largely" due to parenting.

~~~
gjenkin
Sure. If you plant an acorn in crappy soil and fail to fertilize and nurture
it, does it still turn into an oak tree (if it turns into anything at all)? Of
course.

But does it turn out as well as it would have if it got off to the right start
and/or was cared for appropriately? Probably not.

How the oak tree turned out is largely dependent on the environment it was
raised in, the care and attention given to it, no?

Humans have more ability to control or change their conditions than oak trees
but the principle still applies reasonably well. At the very least, taking on
this responsibility as a parent minimizes the chances that one will be absent
or non-attentive.

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jtbigwoo
The father's pattern of behavoir is interesting here. He was absent when his
children were young and then sent them off to boarding school and didn't stay
in touch. Now their lives are not going as well as he'd like, so he's decided
to excoriate them for their decisions. What authority does he have for this?
He earned the money for their expenses when they were young, but he was
otherwise completely uninterested in their upbringing. Now he's going to
parachute in and make demands. Fathering children does not make you a father.

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ht_th
The funny/sad thing is, I could write a similar e-mail to my parents
explaining how disappointed I am with their live choices, inability to learn,
their wrought inter-dependence they call marriage, and, to be honest, the way
they raised their children (including me, of course).

I don't think there is anything wrong to be honest to each other. Family isn't
as important as it has been throughout history and the Idea of Family as
portrayed in our culture has become an outdated concept. On the other hand, as
a family we do share a bond and a shared history together and we're connected.
We can cut our physical ties to one another, just never see each other again,
but we cannot free ourselves from our mental bond. We have to live with that.
And I don't see how cutting physical ties would change anything about that.

~~~
acuozzo
> Family isn't as important as it has been throughout history and the Idea of
> Family as portrayed in our culture has become an outdated concept.

I wonder if it's exactly this opinion that yields ``adults'' like Nick Crews'
children...

~~~
ht_th
That is a good question, yes.

Maybe there is a generation gap. I wonder if Nick Crew and his broken family
ever did talk about their expectations they have for each other. Or he just
never expressed his opinion clear and cut to his children and, once he had
enough, just cut the cord.

The article is somewhat sparse on details. I would have liked it to have some
sort of broader social-cultural analysis of sorts.

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vbtemp
With the paywall up [1], I only have access to a couple NYTimes articles per
month. I was horrified to discover this was just a link to some stupid op-ed
by David Brooks. What a waste. I'm completely sick of all the hot-air
professional bullshit-artist columnists. If this linked to a Tom Friedman
article, I'd have completely lost it.

[1] I know there are a lot of exceptions, I'm not sure if this will count
against my monthly limit if I went to the page via this HN link.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The easiest exception to the paywall is incognito mode.

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irishcoffee
I fail to understand how this made the front-page of HN.

A father sent an email to his children expressing his disdain. Email went
viral in a way unanticipated by the daughter who made the email public. Some
lame exposition is given on the basics of positive re-enforcement.

Nothing about this was interesting or mentally stimulating.

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Killah911
What was the point of this article? I don't think it had much to do with how
people actually change. It was pretty much aggregating a "viral" email and
summarizing (maybe super-summarizing) some views from cognitive behavioral
therapy and maybe some chapters from "The Power of Habit"

The explanation of "How people change" is superficial at best in this article.

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heresyforme
The father's email was hardly ferocious. When children are young, we express
disappointment when they do something they should not do and express
encouragement when they do something they should.

" People don’t behave badly because they lack information about their
shortcomings. They behave badly because they’ve fallen into patterns of
destructive behavior from which they’re unable to escape."

The behavior described by the father could hardly be genetic or environmental
shortcomings. If lack of information is not the cause, then why do we say that
problem youth need more and more education with superman-like teachers and
fewer kids per class?

"Human behavior flows from hidden springs and calls for constant and crafty
prodding more than blunt hectoring. The way to get someone out of a negative
cascade is not with a ferocious e-mail trying to attack their bad behavior.
It’s to go on offense and try to maximize some alternative good behavior.
There’s a trove of research suggesting that it’s best to tackle negative
behaviors obliquely, by redirecting attention toward different, positive
ones."

Yes, hidden springs that mysterious yet totally doable thing that, if we did
it right, then we'd know we were doing it, somehow.

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candre717
The article brings some good points about habit formation:

1\. Start with one habit, one part of life at a time

2\. Create repeated, consistent incentives for abstaining from bad habits

3\. In place of bad habits, put into practice positive behaviors

4\. Change happens in a supportive, nurturing environment

Even though the article is mostly about one man's relationship to his adult
kids, the author manages to include a few decent ideas about change.

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msrpotus
You can read the original letter and skip David Brooks' opining.
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9686219/I-am-
bitterly...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9686219/I-am-bitterly-
bitterly-disappointed-retired-naval-officers-email-to-children-in-full.html)

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xoail
Please change the title. It doesn't talk about how people change but how to
change people.

