

Do Hackers Need Public Speaking Skills? - ivzar

I want to judge the demand developers have for learning public speaking/oratorical skills.<p>I believe developers could greatly benefit from learning how to effectively communicate in front of a group of people, as from my experience, the archetypal coder tends to shy away from such circumstances. Yet, in today's world, these skills are necessary in order to climb the corporate ladder. Not only do I believe these skills are necessary for developers, but also for entrepreneurs who need to be able to market and sell themselves and their services.<p>I understand that there are many people who teach communication skills to a general audience, but I feel like this specific group needs to be addressed in accordance with their situation and unique needs. I believe this is how I can provide the most value to this community, but want to verify that this community would even be interested in such a skill set.<p>Please let me know your thoughts on this; any suggestions, comments, or concerns are all appreciated.
======
rartichoke
I think it depends on what you're doing. If you're a developer who is also the
CEO of your company and need to promote it at events then yeah public speaking
will be essential.

If you want to pitch your ideas for funding you'll probably have to be a good
speaker too. Other than that I think you could get by without it unless you
wanted to give talks at developer conferences.

Public speaking isn't easy but I think good programmers tend to be some of the
best public speakers. You just need a clear head and know exactly what you
want to say.

Look at someone like John Carmack. He has weird ticks but his train of thought
is unmatched. He knows the material so well that he can just sit there and
speak about a topic without missing a beat.

I think that is the most important thing about speaking publicly. If you take
it slow and know exactly what to say then you'll be good at it.

------
stevenameyer
My personal view on the subject is that for a developer these skills are not
overly important and there are a lot of job related things I would prioritize
learning over public speaking.

If I'm hired to work on solely the technical side of things, just about the
only time I'll ever need to speak in a public setting is if i decide to speak
at a conference, which is a normally a decision not a job requirement. If I am
an entrepreneur then this is a different story however as public speaking is
an absolute must have skill.

I'm not saying that it's not a good skill for people to have in general, but
as a developer alone I don't think it is relevant enough for me to choose
learning over something technical or design.

~~~
ivzar
Thanks for the input, I really do appreciate it.

Perhaps "public speaking" is not the word I'm looking for, what about the
ability to communicate effectively, not just to a group of people, but to your
boss or to a coworker? Maybe not you specifically, but do you feel like other
developers struggle with being heard? And is learning oratorical skills and
technical skills mutually exclusive?

~~~
stevenameyer
First of all, I'd take my opinion with a grain of salt as I have never worked
in a corporate setting and every company I have worked at have been very
developer centric with the minority being non-technical personal.

I do think the ability to communicate effectively is always important
regardless of who you are or what you do as others have said. As far as
developers specifically struggling with problems with communication I think
that it depends on who they are trying to communicate with. I can't not
remember a single developer I have met that had significant difficulty
communicating to other people who are technical. Pretty much every one I have
met has been quite articulate about technical matters and appear well versed
in rhetoric. Now this may be skewed since if in fact they were not able to
communicate with other developer then they would not be able to communicate
well with me.

This being said I have met developers who have struggled with communication
with non-technical personal, but my personal opinion on this is it's the
result of a lack of a shared vocabulary with things as oppose to a lack or
oratorical skills on ether side.

As far as whether learning oratorical skills and technical skills are mutually
exclusive, while they are not the limiting factor is time. I have an ever
growing list of languages I'd like to learn, frameworks I'd like to try, work
I need to do and side projects I'd like to start. That does not even include
my interest in becoming better at design. Even with the little sleep I do get,
I am not able to keep up with what I would like to do and I would prioritize
these things over learning oratorical skills. But again that is a personal
opinion and choice and it is likely there are other who would disagree with me
on this.

~~~
ivzar
Thank you for pointing out the technical-nontechnical communication disparity,
I feel like that's what I should focus on.

------
ismaelc
I think public speaking skills are important for developers, not because they
have to do public speaking, but because it trains them to distill their
thoughts into simpler and finer points. In public speaking, you are trained to
take the common denominator, which to some extent "dumbs down" the message,
but makes it more comprehensible by anyone. Such a skill would be beneficial
to a team, especially if you're trying to explain a bug to QA (who will never
have to understand the underlying code), or propose a feature to a superior
(will this earn us revenue?). So yeah I think public speaking skills for
developers are essential, but not to do public speaking (presenting perhaps?)

------
1123581321
It's an interesting question to ask here because Paul Graham has said that he
prefers to listen to people who do not speak well in public because they sound
more authentic, and it shows they care more about their work than giving a
good impression of their work.

My opinion is that people who have had to speak value those skills and
everyone else has no idea that it is even a skill, so it will be necessary to
teach people that your services are needed or should be wanted.

Edit: Just to be clear, I know Paul must value these skills. I meant by the
first paragraph that his idea of good public speaking is at odds with what is
commonly considered to be good public speaking.

~~~
ivzar
I appreciate the input, it helps me gauge what people are looking for. I
rephrased the question to be more concise and better catered to the needs of
this community, if you could let me know your thoughts on this post it would
really help, thanks for your time:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5186131>

------
codegeek
Everyone needs public speaking skills. If only we could just deal with
ourselves and no one else. But the reality of life is that you have to
interact with others, usually in a public setting. Publick speaking is not
just about giving a speech. I took some toastmasters classes
(<http://http://www.toastmasters.org/>) and it really teaches you how to be an
effective leader.

~~~
ivzar
Thanks for taking the time to give your input. You seem to understand that
public speaking is not just about giving a speech, and is necessary for
everyone. How can that be conveyed to developers who believe all they need are
technical skills and communication skills are arbitrary?

------
axelfreeman
I think hackers should tell good storys. All consultents and workshops says
they must teach "communication skills" and these are just some words for
saying: "talk to someone in the level he understands". A Hacker should focus
on translating a techstory in the language that everbody can understand. Good
Story + Translation for the audience = Public Speaking Skills.

Disclaimer: I'm german and this is my bad school english.

~~~
ivzar
Noted, thanks for your input.

Your English is not bad at all, you conveyed your thoughts in a manner that
most importantly is unambiguous. I know exactly what you're saying and that's
what is most important.

------
27182818284
Yes. Everyone needs at least some. Just like everyone needs at least basic
math and basic reading as a minimum.

~~~
ivzar
Thanks for your input, do you feel like this specific community needs to be
uniquely addressed?

~~~
27182818284
I think the Y Combinator community is actually better than most at it. In my
experience of working with developers in general, yes, especially with new
graduates. Two examples come to mind:

A CS graduate I know that was rejected because of his speaking / interacting
skills (both were bad) from a job in Silicon Valley. They liked him enough to
fly him out and he easily implemented their programming challenges, but they
told him that he didn't have the right social skills when it came to speaking
(and interacting) with people. They told him as much and it hurt him, but it
will only make him better so it was good it happened.

The other example was actually seeing YC alum Alexis Ohanian (YC alum and
Reddit founder) in person. He might have always had good at speaking in
public, but if he wasn't, he certainly is now. In the middle of his speech,
whether he did it consciously or not, his hands became more animated exactly
when photographers for the local paper took their photos from the side of the
room--Which will obviously make for a more lively shot in the local
papers/blogs.

~~~
ivzar
This is really insightful and helps me better understand who my target
audience would be.

Is there an email address I could contact you at? I would love to bounce ideas
off of you at some point.

------
jseip
Yes.

