
Cryptocurrencies Are Detrimental to Society - louwrentius
https://louwrentius.com/cryptocurrencies-are-detrimental-to-society.html
======
tr00586
>Cryptocurrencies have existed for eleven years, they should have something to
show for right now.

IMO this argument is pretty seriously flawed. We tend to think of
revolutionary technologies as "overnight successes" but that's rarely the
case.

If we had abandoned the smartphone 11 years after the first attempt at, we
would never have the iPhone. If we had abandoned combustion engines 11 years
after their first attempt, we never would have had the automobile. New
technology is hard and requires a lot of tinkering.

I also think the author fails to capture what people look to as the potential
of crypto. While there is a definite subculture of neo-Austrian economics, a
lot of us are also interested about the ability to structure new forms of
digital markets, make money programmatic, and increase the structural privacy
of the internet.

~~~
meowface
Exactly. Bitcoin is the first flip phone. Let's see what things look like in
20 years.

The one point I agree with the author on is that the electricity waste is
unnecessary and unsustainable. Proof of Stake or other alternatives, if there
are any, should be a requirement of all future cryptocurrencies.

~~~
louwrentius
The flip phone was usable from day 1. This is not a flip phone. It's a
tamagotchi.

~~~
klibertp
Which made a bunch of Japanese elders not to suicide (yet). Yeah, no value at
all.

~~~
louwrentius
Missing the point is an art, I must admit.

~~~
klibertp
You've passed the flame-bait territory and are headed straight for troll-land.
I'm so angry at myself that I got caught in your scheme, you wouldn't believe
it.

~~~
dang
Please don't do this here. If someone is that wrong, or you feel they are,
just let it go.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
drcode
This post presents a very low effort argument. It's basically taking the
argument "the only reason anyone would want privacy is if they have something
to hide" and applying it to money "the only reason anyone would want financial
privacy is because they are buying drugs".

~~~
montenague
Its also far too dependent on the ignorance of the primitive BTC proof of work
protocol to move its simple minded argument forward.

~~~
louwrentius
You mean boiling the oceans for.... what?

------
drchopchop
"Detrimental to society" isn't very defensible, he should have gone with
"dysfunctional, practically useless technology" instead:

* "Anonymous" transactions which are actually on a public, immutable ledger

* Power structure moved away from banks/Fed, and instead to various Chinese mining cartels, shady exchange owners, and early adopters

* Incredible power/resource usage, given the functionality

* Complete lack of fraud protection, insurance, and basic consumer/legal controls (which adopters will claim is a feature)

* Wild, constant price swings based on speculation/gambling/front-running/malfeasance

* Various forks and community squabbling, even 10 years after release

~~~
louwrentius
I think that's a valid criticism, you won't hear me complain.

------
elevenoh
tl;dr - "So in short, I think that cryptocurrencies provide nothing of value
to society. They do however facilitate crime and contribute to climate
change."

Is this satire?

I'm wondering if this author covertly intends to strengthen the perceived
utility of through this article.

Yes, near-free & instant to exchange, borderless, alternative to gov't,
privacy-preserving, competitively evolving etc. digital money provides
'nothing of value'. /s

~~~
louwrentius
What is the actual value of that?

~~~
StavrosK
Being able to send money to a friend in the US from Greece has value to me.
Currently, I can't do this without a lot of hassle, since there's no overlap
between what banking methods we use in Greece and what they use in the US.

The problem is that ~0 stores accept cryptocurrencies, so my friend can't do
anything with it.

~~~
LargoLasskhyfv
Western Union, Moneygram, Paypal, and so on?

~~~
StavrosK
Nowhere near as convenient, fast or cheap. I guess there's Transferwise, which
is still more expensive and slower, plus they banned me as a user, which
cryptocurrencies don't do.

------
bootlooped
The extreme energy waste is the most salient point to me. Imagine what you
could have if you took all the energy spent mining crypto and instead had
spent it on building solar panels or N95 masks or high speed rail.

~~~
StavrosK
I don't know, how much energy is spent producing reality TV shows? To me,
those have less value than instant, trustless payments.

That's not to say that I don't hope non-PoW cryptocurrencies become more
popular, we should conserve energy when we can. I haven't looked very much
into it, but Stellar seems interesting, and it's not PoW.

~~~
irishloop
While I'm not a fan of reality TV, I know plenty of people who are, and whose
lives are enriched because of reality television. There is no accounting for
taste.

I don't know how much people's lives are enriched by cryptocurrency. Other
than the people directly involved in mining and speculating on it.

~~~
StavrosK
I, for one, enjoy watching all the speculator drama, much like watching a
reality TV show. Plus, it lets me buy LSD online, which is something that I
believe I should definitely be able to do but currently cannot.

Unjust laws change by disobeying them, and if you clamped down on that 100%,
neither homosexuality nor cannabis would be legal now.

------
asketak
"Money laundering and buying drugs" "No intrinsic value" "Energy waste" These
arguments have been in the wild for over 10 years and discussed by both sides
in much detail. The article brings just personal opinion of author and
probably the most dumb down version of these arguments I have seen. Not sure
if satire or not.

~~~
louwrentius
Can you answer the question of the article?

> Can you please show me the benefit to society of cryptocurrencies?

~~~
trappist
I'll take a stab.

First, society is a semantic shortcut, not something that actually exists as
something that can experience gain or harm. Only individuals can, and many
have, and do.

I had an unbanked contractor, a refugee from Russia who could not get a bank
account anywhere he went, and had to hop countries a lot as visas expired, and
I paid him in Bitcoin even though he was completely unfamiliar with it when I
proposed it, because we could find no other solution. He and I both benefitted
substantially from that. I'm aware that other solutions exist, and we had
exhausted all the ones we could find, as one by one my bank started rejecting
transactions as fraudulent.

For most of what we want to do in the US or the rest of the first world, we
have a reasonably functional banking system. For most of what we want to do
internationally, at least commercially or with trading partners able to work
with approved banks, things work pretty OK. There is a substantial part of the
world that doesn't live under these conditions.

~~~
louwrentius
Thanks for sharing your story. I'm sorry for the Russian refugee, but that
kind of scenario - although noble - doesn't seem to really justify what 'we
are doing' with crypto.

Indirectly, your scenario seems to admit that for the vast majority of the
world, cryptocurrencies don't add much.

------
hubadu
Every single downside listed in the article already existed way long before
cryptocurrencies were even invented. Yet another article that confuses
security of exchanges with security of cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies are
digital asset designed to work as a non-centralized medium of exchange. You
can ask any citizen from countries that went through hyperinflation, capital
control or cyprus-style bank account seizure (bail-in), what is the value of
cryptocurrency to them. Then ask yourself if and when it can happen to you.

~~~
louwrentius
I mention this 'argument' in my article.

~~~
hubadu
To any person living in Europe, I hope you guys know the bank account seizure
that happened in Cyprus in 2013 has been used as a template to create an
european law named "Bank Recovery and Resolution Directive"(BRRD). Some people
are going to learn the hard way:

[https://eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/single-
rulebook/...](https://eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/single-
rulebook/interactive-single-rulebook/4402)

------
sawmill-picture
Fiat Currencies are Detrimental To Society

How would you explain the inner workings of fiat currency to someone in
simple, understandable terms?

"Imagine if the person in your neighborhood with the biggest house ran a
printer in his garage that printed off paper that said "1 Buck" on it, and
instead of giving the pizza delivery guy silver coins in exchange for their
service, gave them bucks. Also he demands you pay him "$1 Buck" a week or else
he'll take a buck worth of your stuff every week and if you can't pay he'll
break your legs. And if you started printing your own "1 Buck" notes, he will
come and lock you in a cage."

This explanation seems perfect to me because it illustrates the absolute
insanity of all fiat currencies in one simple sentence.

It captures the unimaginable unfairness of maintaining fiat currencies. And it
also captures the dark side of fiat currencies: perpetuation of a system of
sovereign violence.

At this point fiat currency enthusiasts are rolling their eyes and sigh. This
point has been made many times over. I know, I'm definitely not the first to
criticise fiat currencies this way.

I do have a simple challenge though:

Can you please show me the benefit to society of fiat currencies?

~~~
louwrentius
The only thing you do is to move attention away from cryptocurrencies to
(other) fiat currencies. They may have problems too.

But we are now talking about the merits of cryptocurrencies. I see zero
argument for them.

~~~
sawmill-picture
Cryptocurrency is: * Resistant to government censorship: Short of total
firewalling and mass whitelisting of all IP packets and blacklisting all
encrypted traffic, governments have difficulty controlling transfers. *
Resistant to capital controls: Centralized banking can prevent you from using
your money. The Federal Reserve reduced the reserve requirement to zero and
cut interest rates to zero on March 15th. The FDIC released a PSA video
advising people not to withdraw their money from banks. In June 2015 Greece
closed its banks for almost 20 days and limited cash withdrawals to 60 euro.
With cryptocurrency there is no bank to close, no authority to enforce
withdrawal limits. * Deflationary, not inflationary: Cryptocurrencies are all
different, but Bitcoin for example has a strict upper ceiling on the number of
bitcoins that will ever be produced and 85% of that supply has already been
produced. Meanwhile the Federal Reserve is pumping billions of dollars into
banks by buying their bonds and securities and is speculating about expanding
its purchasing. Venezuela has had issues with inflation and hyperinflation due
to excessive production of currency and deficit spending. They even launched
their own cryptocurrency in an attempt to have a commodity-backed and more
stable currency, which flopped because it was still under central control of
the Venezuelan government for which there was little trust and apparently it
was a scheme to avoid sanctions, which is laughable because... * Resistant to
Sanction: Venezuela could just start selling its oil for Bitcoin directly,
obtaining a reserve of uncensorable value that it could use to regain its
economic strength. In fact it is attempting this, which is underreported.
Sanctions are economic warfare which harm the poorest members of a nation the
most. Whether you think a nations' leaders are criminals or not, do the people
deserve to suffer at the hands of the world's markets directed by the economic
juggernaut and political interest of the U.S.A.? * Low Fee Remittances: Using
cryptocurrencies, people can easily send money across borders to family and
dependents. If someone working in the U.S.A. wants to send, by Western Union,
$200, or about a months' wages MXN, they pay a fee of $5-7, which is
approximately the minimum DAILY wage in Mexico. Transfer in bitcoin, the
transaction fee is about $1. If you have to also purchase your bitcoins
(instead of receiving them directly as wages) the fee goes up to about $4. *
Automated Finance: On Ethereum you can earn 4% interest on your deposit with
the Dai Savings Rate. Other protocols offer up to 10% or more for lending
cryptocurrency to others who take small loans, all with no middleman other
than an automated contract. No loan application, no credit check, no
redlining. This is a huge silent movement for microfinancing and is growing at
a steady rate, granting underserved populations access to financial services.
And what's the best rate you can get from a centralized bank? 1.7% and likely
to drop in the coming months.

So there are some arguments.

~~~
louwrentius
These are all theoretical problems that have not shown up in real life in the
west. Also there is no evidence that cryptocurrency will truly address those
topics at scale, meaning full for a significant part of the population.

This reads like a religious text to me.

------
herve76
Cryptocurrencies answer the need to move money fast and free, the same way the
emails free us from using post offices to send letters.

~~~
krapp
But cryptocurrencies are neither fast, nor free. They're slow compared to
regulated banking transactions, and use up vastly greater amounts of energy
and resources.

------
keymone
Stopped reading after first two sentences.

Bitcoin works because it provides a transaction platform that’s virtually
impossible to censor or control and a monetary system that is virtually
impossible to debase.

Bitcoin provides those things through law of the universe - you can’t make
energy out of nothing.

If you figure out a different way to provide those things, feel free to make
your alternative to Bitcoin, but don’t make these dumb comparisons and
arguments that just demonstrate your complete lack of understanding how and
why something works.

~~~
louwrentius
> Bitcoin works because it provides a transaction platform that’s virtually
> impossible to censor or control and a monetary system that is virtually
> impossible to debase.

Why is this good? What tangible problem are we solving here?

~~~
keymone
It’s good because it solves problem for me. The problem it solves is absence
of financial system that is impossible to censor or control and monetary
system that is impossible to debase.

~~~
louwrentius
What do these words even mean in every day life?

~~~
keymone
They mean exactly what you can read in the dictionary.

~~~
louwrentius
But no examples how it would actually work in real life.

~~~
keymone
Money you think you have in your bank are actually just a promise recorded in
a database. Even if that promise is fulfilled and you get cash on your hands,
it can be diluted into worthlessness by printing trillions more. All of that
is controlled by few guys behind closed doors.

None of that applies to Bitcoin. Is that good enough example from real life?

~~~
louwrentius
No, because it's such a narrow view on currency. Because governments have
every incentive to keep currencies stable, so they will never become
worthless.

Cryptocoins are not backed by anything, making them very volatile and thus
unsuited as a foundational currency for any stable society.

This example only illustrates to me that cryptocoin proponents only have
esotheric hypotheticals in mind.

Sure Venezuela happened, but those are exceptions. When the stock exchanges
went down hard due to corona, the cryptocoins went down hard too. But regular
money kept stable.

Yes fiat money is just a record in a database. And that's it for
cryptocurrencies. But fiat money like a dollar or euro is so much more.

~~~
keymone
Fiat is controlled by governments, governments are controlled by humans,
humans are often irrational and there are many more examples than just
Venezuela which is the only thing you could think of.

Bitcoin is governed by math and that’s why it’s valuable to me.

Bitcoin is beneficial to society because it provides choice. I don’t care if
you don’t get it or if you disagree.

~~~
louwrentius
If you really didn't care you would not have responded.

The truth is that cryptocurrencies like bitcoin are highly volatile and in
fact a very dangerous alternative.

------
JohnJamesRambo
You might see how useful they are quite soon.

“The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that’s required
to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency,
but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust. Banks
must be trusted to hold our money and transfer it electronically, but they
lend it out in waves of credit bubbles with barely a fraction in reserve.”

– Satoshi Nakamoto

We are currently at banks being required to keep a ridiculous zero percent in
reserve.

~~~
cwmma
Now you just need to trust the software developers not to increase mining
rewards and the crypto exchanges not to scam you

~~~
krapp
If you cant trust anonymous cypherpunks and organized crime to be fair and
honest stewards in an anarcho-capitalist black market then who _can_ you
trust? Bankers? _Governments?_ Might as well just burn all of your cash in an
oil drum.

------
aww_dang
>unimaginable energy waste of mining cryptocurrencies Not all cryptocurrencies
require a massive amount of energy.

>Cryptocurrencies have existed for eleven years, they should have something to
show for right now

I'm using a cryptocurrency for feeless, instant microtransactions in a browser
based game. It happens to be a near ideal solution. That, said I won't force
it upon anyone. It is a purely voluntary proposition.

>Ponzi

This is somewhat true. When there is no actual use case, there is no actual
value. But again, the author generalizes. Not everyone is in it to promote
some coin. Some of us are just looking for a technical solution.

Let's take a second to remember what happened with e-gold and liberty reserve.
There's a reason why cryptocurrencies are necessary. They aren't backed by
anything because they are decentralized. They can't be backed by the obvious
(precious metals) because that is highly regulated.

>Those regular currencies provide tremendous value to our societies.

This is as far as I have time to go right now. If you think there's no issue
with traditionally issued paper and digital money, then there's very little to
say here. The US is about to issue $2 trillion in monetized debt.

From Roman coin clipping to the Wiemar republic's hyperinflation, if you can't
see what is happening and actually believe that this process is 'adding value'
to society...

If hamburgers were once 5 cents each, how has value been added?

~~~
louwrentius
> I'm using a cryptocurrency for feeless, instant microtransactions in a
> browser based game. It happens to be a near ideal solution. That, said I
> won't force it upon anyone. It is a purely voluntary proposition.

I think you just made the point of my article again for me, thanks ;)

The volatility of crypto just don't provide a real alternative to regular
currencies though.

~~~
aww_dang
Not at all. It isn't criminal, nor does it use loads of electricity. It
wouldn't be possible with Paypal or any other solution.

>The volatility of crypto just don't provide a real alternative to regular
currencies though.

What's that have to do with the price of tea in China? I.e. if that's the best
you can offer, you can't construe that cryptocurrency is a detriment to
society...

Definitely a ways off from proving your point.

------
robcohen
This blog post fails to mention anything about alternative consensus
mechanisms to Proof of Work (PoW).

Proof of Work requires the energy expenditure of a small country.

Proof of Stake requires far far less power, negligible amounts of power.

[https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/ethereum-
plans-...](https://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/networks/ethereum-plans-to-cut-
its-absurd-energy-consumption-by-99-percent)

~~~
AndrewUnmuted
And yet, proof of stake has led to no cryptocurrency that can claim anywhere
near the activity of Bitcoin.

~~~
Hitton
Ah, yes. Argumentation by number of users. Reminds me of Facebook conclusively
proving that federated social networks are dead end by its own merits,
definitely not by the fact that when you start using social network you are
more likely use one that your friends already use.

~~~
AndrewUnmuted
I was simply pointing out a fact, not looking to argue. You won't hear any
support for centralized media - be they social networks or cryptocurrencies -
out of me.

However, I'll also point out that when it comes to things which claim to be
effective means of exchange, buy-in from users is pretty dang important.

------
epx
If people didn't raise the "selling drugz" thing every time. Selling drugs
should not be a crime anyway.

I don't like crypto currencies (and coffee is my drug of choice), but saying
"drugs are bad mmkay" and "how are we going to pay the generous pensions to
our public servants [while most of us are never going to be able to retire]"
is almost an incentive to try Bitcoin once again.

~~~
bad_user
If drugs are illegal, then that's the law. Fair or not, that's beside the
point. If you don't like the law, feel free to lobby for changing it, but in
case you're selling drugs illegally, then you should go to jail.

In general people breaking the law should incur the associated costs,
especially when they are doing so knowingly.

~~~
sprucely
A bad law tends not to change until there are enough people breaking the law.

------
bigB
People in general are detrimental to society, regardless of what currency we
are using. Your argument is pretty weak considering conventional currency has
been used for illegal and immoral activities since it was a thing, and even
before that there were illegal trade in goods and services. All your examples
in your arguments have been around long before cryptocurrency, with the
exception of ransomware, which still was around prior to bitcoin, but i will
grant you is much easier now. Nothing new really except a new payment method.
It all comes down to the fact that there is a percentage of people out there
that are not "good" people, with the definition of "good" relative to your
perception of the situation. this will always be the case, regardless of
technology. Cryptocurrency problems, are just a symptom of a greater problem
which is human nature...which you cannot change.

~~~
louwrentius
Please state the benefits of cryptocurrencies. Nobody here seems to be able to
answer this question without resorting to crazy jargon.

~~~
bigB
Well you haven't really state any benefit of traditional currency either....it
can be given, taken, lost, stolen...and given the current world situation it
is certainly not stable. Cryptocurrency has every benefit of normal currency
for the user, less beneficial for law enforcement and governmental control,
but control is not always a good thing either. Your talking about a
currency....why does it have to perform something magical for it to be "good"

------
goblin89
Cryptocurrency can facilitate crime just like cash, but with scale come new
and unknown implications. Same with information security, surveillance, and
more: physical vulnerability in a door lock vs. remotely exploitable
vulnerability in Wi-Fi router firmware; standalone CCTV vs. a connected
network of cameras with centralized storage that allows tracking the movements
of a given person throughout the day—the latter cases inevitably create
potential for less obvious, more insidious exploitation not restricted by
physical barriers.

~~~
louwrentius
But what value does it provide?

~~~
goblin89
Also same as cash, amplified by scale and lack of geographic/political
barriers.

~~~
louwrentius
Is there any actual evidence that this is true, taking the exchange rates in
cryptocurrency exchanges into account?

~~~
goblin89
What is in doubt here, value provided by cash?

A friend of mine uses (used?) cryptocurrency for transferring/receiving money
to/from a sibling across the ocean. Converting to/from local currency is
apparently cheaper relative to PayPal rates. (Plus, in some countries PayPal
et al. restrict accounts not associated with a bank, making it even less
attractive to unbanked.)

What is unclear to me personally is whether benefits outweigh other
implications, once everything gets amplified by scale.

~~~
louwrentius
This is a very uncommon esoteric situation.

------
maxencecornet
>Therefore, I would propose to shut them all down.

OK the author clearly has no idea how a blockchain and a set of validators
work

I would gladly hear his plan to "shut them all down"

~~~
UweSchmidt
I wouldn't be so confident. Making things illegal works pretty well in
discouraging usage, and shutting down the "exchanges" like coinbase would tank
the value for crypto, as most normies would no longer transfer surplus cash
into bitcoins.

Of course no one can take those long numbers from those cold wallets.

~~~
maxencecornet
>and shutting down the "exchanges" like coinbase would tank the value for
crypto

Sure it would, but you can't close decentralized on-chain exchanges like
uniswap or Kyber

I'm pretty sure there will always be a fiat<->crypto bridge, you can't "shut
them all down" IMO

~~~
UweSchmidt
As I said, your long random numbers on your special devices are yours forever
and you can decrypt more SHA-1 if you like.

There would be a lot less of that going on.

------
montenague
Half way down the page and there are zero arguments in favour - deeply
disingenuous article.

Much of what this "discussion" focuses on casts every innovation (of which
there are many) into the Bitcoin Proof of Work pidgeon hole.

Bitcoin is a primitive protocol - nothing more than a technical proof that can
now be used as a gold store.

There are some serious upcoming corporate monsters building their foundations
right now. Cardano, Chainlink, ETH(Maybe), Augur.

All of those are real companies not anarchist dreams. Serious scientific minds
like Philip Wadler, who has contributed majorly to Haskell and Java, this is
not some libertarian dream.

This is IoT and the eventual interface with AGI.

But yeah, focus on the silk road for gods sake.

~~~
louwrentius
Can you answer the question I pose: Can you please show me the benefit to
society of cryptocurrencies?

You only point to other smart people that have started companies to purposes
unclear.

------
Finnucane
It's telling that the theoretical justifications the crypto folks use is
mostly warmed over goldbuggery, and therefore concerns about the effects on
society at large are discounted. The appeal is to people who have no fucks to
give about society at large.

~~~
jariel
Most people support crypto for its novel technology, societal antagonism, and
it's ostensible 'freedom'. Possibly also it's Ponzi scheme appeal.

But they tend to not have any grasp of currency, economics, finance and how
things really work in this world.

Yes, it would be nice to rid ourselves of Visa and possibly even get rid of
the Fed, but at least in the later, there are existential issues at hand.

Currency is a social contract it will always involve 'trust' of some kind.

There is absolutely no way around that.

There is no such thing as a 'trustless' currency or store of value.

Digital currency has a bright future, and maybe someday we'll get rid of Vias
fees, but outside of that, we're not getting away from central banks.

------
snissn
> Therefore, I would propose to shut them all down.

How?

~~~
lukifer
I'm pro-crypto; but Proof-of-Work mining is an ecological atrocity. If it's
infeasible to outright ban mining at scale, a sufficiently onerous carbon tax
to disincentivize might be enough. In either case, miners would recoup their
losses by selling ASICs, certainly to those in countries with no such
restrictions, and the mining would continue. Maybe a government buyback
program, similar to what countries have done with guns; but it seems difficult
to summon that much political will.

We've created a monster.

~~~
montenague
Take a look at what Compute North is doing - reframe what an energy producer
is. Electric power plants will have the market cornered on computation cost,
they will be the miners using surplus load, fluctuating with the market and
generating tokenised wealth at the point of generation.

Tokens created at the point of value generation - not abstracted to a few
interest rates and financial levers.

------
aww_dang
We should be able to have an interesting discussion based upon just how wrong
this article is.

------
Pokepokalypse
I think the whole thing is a scam by the energy industry to drum up demand for
energy.

------
srib
OP, how do you propose that Bitcoin be shut down? How would you go about it?

~~~
louwrentius
I know we can't. But the people involved should stop and do something 'less
detrimental' with their lives.

~~~
klibertp
Why do you feel entitled to tell people what they should do? How do you know
what value - or lack thereof - people get from using Bitcoin&co., have you
checked with them, or is it just theory? Why do you assume your sense of value
has to be universal?

The 'drugs' traded on the 'deeply depraved' marketplaces save lives and make
other lives kind of comfortable even amid a chronic disease. Yes, I mean drugs
which should, but for various reasons are not, available in the pharmacy.
That's a real use case, do you think it's 'detrimental to society'? Because
ill people get a chance to live again? Great thinking.

And to top it all off, your post is worded in a purposely confrontational and
inflammatory way. It's a flame-bait, and it got flagged and removed from the
site because of this. What do _you_ gain by presenting a biased, unoriginal
post to the crowd here? If you think you just made a "net benefit for society"
\- think again. In solitude, please.

~~~
louwrentius
Yes the title didn't help, a good lesson. Less judgement in titles.

You call my post bias and unoriginal, which you can do. But can you answer the
core question I pose?

And please not with esoteric examples of availability of medicine for chronic
diseases which to me raises the question: is that all you can come up with?

~~~
klibertp
It's not esoteric! It happens. I can't go into details, which should be
understandable, but I've seen this happen. People I know and love were able to
live freely in the last year of their lives; people I know and love are able
to function mostly normally because of the drugs they buy illegally. What,
please tell me, is esoteric in this? What exactly?

> is that all you can come up with?

No, but it's enough to falsify your claims. There are people who get
_tremendous_ value out of the 'depraved markets'. That's it.

EDIT: typo.

~~~
louwrentius
It doesn't falsify it. It only shows one or a few examples where just a few
people self-report any benefit. And getting medicine through the dark markets
is shady as fuck.

That kind of example doesn't seem to support the whole crytocurrency stuff
with all it's downsides in any way.

If that's all you can come up with, all the more reason to shut it down
(hypothetically).

~~~
klibertp
> people self-report any benefit

And who other than the people is qualified to report whether people
benefitted?

> And getting medicine through the dark markets is shady as fuck.

Are you a Christian? I'm amazed and ask seriously, because I can't imagine
much of anything else that would make you spew this much of a nonsense with
this much conviction.

dang, yes, I know, this is the last post from me, sorry.

------
Lagogarda
crypto is like cruise lines to me. I know it is there but I never used it to
buy something.

