
The Uberwomen Who Beat Sleep: Origin of the "Uberman" polyphasic sleep schedule - jimsojim
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-uberwomen-who-beat-sleep
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outworlder
> During sleep deprivation, he says, “The brain, probably because it is so
> tired, starts to have difficulties gauging its own level of sleepiness.”
> Eventually, an exhausted brain gives up on sending you signals that it needs
> rest. You feel OK precisely because you’re not.

If true, I think that's the most important point of the article. If you can't
trust your own brain, you can't any claims made by people trying that sort of
schedule.

Also, the amount of effort you have to put up with in order to even start
sleeping like that suggests me that's unnatural and unhealthy. We may even
have some kind of adaptation for that in the short term. Think cavemen who
just lost his shelter and needs to find another in dangerous territory. It's
conceivable that one could spend a few weeks not sleeping much until
conditions improve. Forget about longer term effects, since survival is at
stake. So, the brain keeps getting pulled out of sleep due to perceived
dangers (in modern times, that's the alarm clock). Then it switches off part
of the sleep mechanism so that the subject will have a better chance of moving
away from danger.

~~~
fweespeech
> If true, I think that's the most important point of the article. If you
> can't trust your own brain, you can't any claims made by people trying that
> sort of schedule.

It is true.

Exhaustion [past a certain point] is essentially equivalent to being drunk.

[http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/sleep-deprivation-is-
as-...](http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/sleep-deprivation-is-as-bad-for-
your-performance-as-alcohol.html)

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/)

> Moderate sleep deprivation produces impairments in cognitive and motor
> performance equivalent to legally prescribed levels of alcohol intoxication

Much like with a drunk person, you can't trust what they are telling you.

~~~
bcassedy
As someone that has experimented with polyphasic sleep, I'd like to see some
studies designed in such a way that they mirror what people actually do when
they switch to one of these schedules. That is to say allow for an adjustment
period.

I know for me, getting to the point where I could fall asleep for the naps was
the hardest part. I ended up basically skipping a night of sleep and then
entering into the nap protocol. That first couple of weeks was brutal but I
stayed on a polyphasic sleep schedule for about 6 months.

I can't definitively say that my cognitive function wasn't reduced over that 6
month period, but it certainly wasn't like being drunk.

At the time I was a professional poker player and I was not measurably less
profitable per 100 hands and played a much higher volume than normal during
that stretch. Ultimately I stopped the cycle due to loneliness. I already had
a very solitary job, but adding another 6 - 8 hours of alone time to each day
weighs on you for sure. I think with a normal, albeit flexible, job this would
have been more sustainable for me.

~~~
fweespeech
> As someone that has experimented with polyphasic sleep, I'd like to see some
> studies designed in such a way that they mirror what people actually do when
> they switch to one of these schedules. That is to say allow for an
> adjustment period.

Fwiw, I agree with you in so far as your logic goes.

However, as it can would be fatal based on the main stream understanding of
how sleep deprivation works, I can't say I'd support such a study since it
would likely kill at least one person and/or otherwise fuck up their health
seriously.

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MollyR
I tried this during college, and nearly ended up hospitalized from
hallucinations and a mini seizure. My sleep cycle was ruined for a year.

I had to pay around a thousand usd for a sleep study, and had to see a sleep
specialist for a year. He told me I was pretty lucky, if I tried it any longer
I could have gotten permanent brain damage. He was suspicious of polyphasic
claims, because he often saw people use modafinil in conjunction with
this(especially among lawyers).

Maybe some people are genetically predisposed to this form of sleeping, but
running experiments on yourself may not be worth it.

~~~
rubicon33
You should look up the popular YouTuber & tech CEO "Casey Neistat".

He proclaims in his daily vlog, to regularly getting 4-5 hours of sleep. On
top of that, he runs 8-14 miles (at a sub 8 minute pace), nearly every day.

On top of that, he has a new born, and just launched a thriving tech company -
Beme.

I saw a post somewhere that suggested he is likely using modafinil. I wonder
how many of these uber-successful people, are using modafinil to shorten their
sleep cycle?

~~~
spotman
4-5 hours is adequate for many people. Myself being one of them. I don't take
any uppers besides coffee and find 4-5 is ideal and 6-7 makes me groggy if I
can even accomplish that. Usually after 5 hours of sleep I wake up with no
alarm clock wide awake.

~~~
rubicon33
Do you also run 8-12 miles every day at a sub 8 minute pace, run a fledgling
technology company, and have a new born child?

Well, even if you don't, you're still damn lucky to have that kind of energy.

~~~
spotman
no, but I am a co-founder of a fitness startup, and try to get a lot of
exercise! 8-12 miles is more than I do, and I do not have a kid.

~~~
rubicon33
I'm pretty intrigued by anyone who can honestly perform on 4-5 hours of sleep,
night after night after night.

To what do you attribute this ability? Have you always been a short-sleeper?
Is it something you've worked toward? Is age a factor? Diet?

~~~
spotman
I'm not sure if ability is the right word but maybe?

I know several people like this, my gut tells me it's not super uncommon.

It was not always like this , but the older I get the less sleep I seem to
need. In my 20s would feel groggy on 5 hours of sleep, but in my 30s ( current
age ) I feel groggy if I get more than 5 hours sleep.

I haven't been able to "sleep in" since I was probably 15 or 16.

Some people probably call this being a morning person, to over simplify it
heavily.

Edit: if you do some light googling there is a substantial anoint of data on
the internet that claims 8 hours of sleep is too much and 6 is closer to ideal
for full grown adults. So getting 4-5 and a healthy dose of exercise does not
seem in the realm of supernatural to me. Give it a shot! ( don't leave out the
exercise either )

~~~
rubicon33
Well, I would describe your inability to sleep in, as definitely qualifying
for being a morning person.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have individuals like myself. From my
teens into my early twenties, my ideal sleep cycle was 4am to 1:00pm. Probably
still would be my ideal sleep cycle, if that fit into civilization.

It's hilarious to think I could maybe survive on 5 hours. Go to sleep at 4,
wake up at 9? Hah, ya right.

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SwellJoe
I've tried polyphasic sleep on a number of occasions over the past couple of
decades, with a few different schedules. It doesn't work (for me). Perpetual
grogginess becomes the norm, and I always felt tired, occasionally short of
breath and prone to heartburn (this one seems weird, but I get heartburn when
I'm overly tired in normal circumstances, as well).

The best science I've been able to find on the subject seems to match that
experience. Some people can "feel fine" on a polyphasic schedule, but in tests
there does seem to be a decline in performance. Slower response times and less
accuracy on hand-eye tests, etc. that is similar to the decline experienced by
sleep deprived subjects.

I'd love to have several extra hours a day, but from what I can tell, there
are trade offs that nullify the productivity and "more time" advantages.

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orthoganol
I read a bit on the polyphastic sleep society's website [1], and it looks
entirely premised on the idea that light sleep is 'non recovering', yet it
makes up >= 65% of our 8 hour sleep schedules, so they cut it out via
schedules that drop you directly into deep sleep (REM and 'slow wave sleep').

I would like to know more about their claim of the unimportance of light
sleep. I also don't like that the people cited in the article are writing
books and pushing product.

[1] [http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-
sleep/beginners/](http://www.polyphasicsociety.com/polyphasic-
sleep/beginners/)

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crb002
Experimented with polyphasic sleep back in grad school. Pretty sure it is
bunk. Your body needs hours of sleep to raise HGH levels and conduct proper
maintence.

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cryoshon
I had a friend who did Uberman once. It was hard to be around him at times
because he would sometimes very rapidly deteriorate into sleep as he
approached one of his sanctioned sleeping periods.

Aside from those sanctioned sleeping periods, I'd estimate he was maybe a
third actually-awake about seventy percent of the time.

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adam12
I hope people who experiment with Uberman don't drive.

~~~
Eldarrion
That's like hoping people will not talk on the phone/watch TV or eat soup
(using both hands) while driving.

I think the worst thing I saw ever was this woman who was having cereal while
going 75+ MPH on the highway. She was holding the bowl in her left hand, she'd
move her right hand off the wheel, reach down (assuming to the cup holder),
grab a spoon, lift it, dip in the bowl, move to her mouth and then return the
spoon back to its position before reaching up to grab the wheel again. The
whole procedure takes somewhere north of 5 seconds to accomplish. Add to that
the fact that she was going at least 20 over the limit and that at any point
in time, her eyes are shifting to look into the bowl to see if she's scooped
enough, down to the cup holder to check and make sure she's picked up/dropped
the spoon properly and you're in trouble.

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tankerdude
That is interesting except that it seems a bit anecdotal in terms of
usability.

Is anyone doing cognitive tests to ensure that your brain is actually working
optimally and answering hard questions?

