
The Macbook "Brick" - ojbyrne
http://www.9to5mac.com/macbook-brick
======
131072
That article is a little garbled. What it seems to be saying is that Apple is
going to CNC machine MacBook cases from a solid block instead of stamping (or
maybe even hydroforming) them. This seems like an incomplete part of the
story, since it would be near-impossible to CNC machine aluminum to the very
thin dimensions they currently have with their stamped cases. It would also be
very difficult to machine a block with the dimensions of a MacBook so that the
innards are hollow, reducing the number of seams and fasteners. A great deal
of scrap would be produced in the form of aluminum chips, which do not recycle
well because the high surface area means there is a lot of aluminum oxide to
deal with.

Water jets and laser cutters are in common usage and one or other has probably
been used to cut the blanks or trim the finished case parts since the titanium
powerbook. They are also excellent for parts like the bezel on the front of
the MBP screen. They are not generally used to carve 3D shapes - that is done
by a CNC mill, which resembles a big drill bit that can move in three
dimensions if you haven't seen one. To stamp a MBP case would take seconds -
CNC machining one from solid might keep a 7-figure machine occupied for
several minutes. Water jets and lasers generally blow a hole right through
whatever they are pointed at, limiting their usage to cutting flat sheets or
trimming the edges from stamped parts.

If this article is true, I think we are more likely to see more elaborate
internal bracing or complex case designs from Apple. The innards of a MBP are
fairly prosaic and complex machining could be used to improve airflow and
allow components to be packed closer together. Aluminum could also be
strategically placed in more complex shapes to help conduct heat out of the
case. But when you manufacture parts by the million, casting the parts then
finish-machining them may be more efficient, since the need to tie up
expensive machines is reduced. Perhaps this is a strategy to get out of the
'just like every other laptop but with OSX' trap and maintain their
competitive advantage in 'design' now that their competitors are starting to
lift their game.

Also, aircraft-grade aluminum doesn't really mean anything. There are many
different grades with different purposes, many of which are in common use in
all kinds of relatively mundane applications. No doubt the current MacBook
Pros are made from 'aircraft grade aluminum', but coke cans probably are too.

It sounds like some juicy info has unfortunately been filtered through one or
two levels of people who aren't familiar with machine tool jargon. It would be
very interesting to hear more details.

If you want to play with these machines yourself, check out emachineshop.com -
a cool startup if ever there was one.

~~~
mhb
That's interesting about the relative recycling value of chips vs. blocks. Is
it possible to keep the chips covered in coolant to prevent oxidation if it is
known that the aluminum is going to be remelted?

~~~
131072
I had a look and found this: <http://www.ars-inc.com/ROI.htm> Still, buying
expensive aluminum billets and then turning ~99% of the material into chips as
would happen with a case design similar to the current MBP wouldn't be very
efficient.

Perhaps they are moving to case designs that are a combination of CNC machined
parts and stamped pieces? I'm sure Apple's design team is a lot more
imaginative than me. There are some CNC-looking parts in the current MBP like
the bracket that fixes the HD in place.

But let's face facts. Steve will not rest until he is selling Cube shaped
computers again. :)

------
noonespecial
A 12" x 12" x 1.5" block of aluminum costs more than $200.

Not a very efficient method of making a computer case. I think maybe the
article might be missing a few details!

~~~
jws
216 cubic inches, 0.098 lb/cu in, 21 pounds. Aluminum is running about
$1/pound. That sounds like $20 to me. I think they can find room to bury that
in the price tag. You could spend around $200 to buy a single 12"x12" plate
from a metal retailer on line, but I think Apple would buy in volume.

Actual volume of a macbook is 123 cubic inches, so it is even less.

I suppose I could be wildly wrong about the price of whatever alloy they are
using.

~~~
noonespecial
That looks like the current scrap price. Its at about $.80 at this very
moment, down from a high of $1.10 earlier this year.

Pure alloys (not mixed and cast by melting scrap), even common ones like 6061
still seem to be $5-$10/pound even in large quantities. If you know of a way
to get 61 or 52 for less than that we would greatly appreciate the tip.

~~~
jws
I just talked to an automotive manufacturer, ok, my brother. He is paying
about $1.60 a pound for 6000 series aluminum extrusions. It was higher but is
headed down.

I think the price works.

~~~
jws
The above manufacturer counts on getting 80% of the source price back for
their scrap. So you can imagine if apple rough mills the bricks to remove most
of the material as chips and gets 80% of the rate for those pounds of chips,
then uses their exotic processes for the final work they will generate more
valuable scrap, cutting their end cost.

------
mattmaroon
I thought this article was going to be about my cofounder's MBP. It, too, has
been nicknamed the Macbook Brick, but for a much different reason.

~~~
unalone
Why has it been, then?

~~~
mattmaroon
Because it's been in and out of the Apple store ever since he bought it, and
generally is about as functional as a brick.

~~~
bk
I can painfully relate. One of my computers was called the Crapple (dual
inherited from cripple and crap).

I've owned four Apple computers (ibook G3, ibook G4, imac G5, macbook), and
despite skipping first revisions and treating my computers very well, every
single one of them has had several minor defects and all my notebooks have
broken completely within a 3 year time frame.

In my personal experience, Apple is a hardware bimbo - pretty but useless. I
only come back for OS X, which is the nicest desktop 'nix. I wish apple were
still apple _computers_ , not apple media.

I'm waiting for the next mb/mbp's, but if anyone has tips for alternatives,
I'd love to hear them.

~~~
qqq
Anecdotal evidence is not important. Quality control needs to be observed over
a large sample size.

~~~
bk
Anecdotal evidence is very important when it concerns you - if you get cancer
or your parachute happens to be the one that fails, the larger statistic is
really not all that relevant, unless you're in a competition for "I got
screwed in the most unlikely way in the world".

Secondly, even without a larger statistic, applying combinatorics, Markov
chains, Bayesian inference can yield interesting insights, even if just for
nerdy fun.

Lastly, by using "I can [...] relate" and "In my personal experience" I
clearly signaled that I was merely making a personal statement. Cheers.

~~~
mattmaroon
FWIW, I've got a pretty large sample of anecdotal evidence that agrees. I had
3 cofounders with MBPs, all purchased within a couple months. Only one has run
with no problems. The other 3 (one bought a backup) have been in and out of
the Apple store forever, though a lot of the problem was that the "geniuses"
just weren't fixing them properly.

And I know a lot of other startups that run primarily on Macs, and it's not an
uncommon occurrence at all. In fact, it's so prevalent that a lot of them keep
a spare handy just in case.

Again, not a statistically relevant sample, but enough to convince me they're
pretty flimsy in the hardware department.

~~~
qqq
3 is not large. if you admit it's not statistically relevant then it's
irrational to be convinced of anything.

~~~
mattmaroon
It's a lot more than 3. I mentioned other startups I know, and if I did a
survey I could probably collect data on a couple hundred. Also it would be 4
just among my 3 cofounders, since one was bought as a replacement and then
began having problems itself.

Nonetheless, there is very likely to be a substantial failure rate for anyone
to observe of 3 out of 4 Macbooks having problems. While you can't get an
accurate mean failure rate from that small of a sample, you could pin down
ranges for a given certainty. I'm too lazy to figure out how to do the math to
get a range for say, 75% certainty, but I guarantee it's high by industry
standards.

Also, you could simply Google around. Mac fans everywhere seem to consider
their notebooks highly unreliable. Again, anecdotes, and probably a weighted
sample too. But from Apple's perspective, it might as well be data since
people will perceive it as such.

~~~
unalone
An incredibly weighted sample. That's like searching for commentary on any
default Linux distro. Negativity rises to the top, because it's more urgent
and more entertaining.

Again: I'm running my MBP from college, and I'd say that probably half my
floor runs Mac. I've been dubbed the techie, unfortunately, and I've been
asked no questions regarding Mac bugs yet. The biggest problems people've been
having is with using Word 2008 to print: apparently, it messes up the margins.

And, of course, from personal experience: the only error my Mac has had was
when I attempted to install Windows XP. And that was admittedly disastrous,
but my computer was entirely backed-up and the Geniuses got it fixed off-the-
clock - pretty top-notch customer service. When I installed Vista it happened
smoothly.

Again: my evidence is as anecdotal as yours. But I'm not using my evidence to
say that Apple is perfect and does no wrong. I'm just pointing out that for
every "brick" story somebody has, there are a dozen "Maclove" stories that
people just aren't provoked to tell.

~~~
mattmaroon
Very true. But, if you assumed Macs failed 10% of the time, and that to be a
high rate for notebooks overall, a sample of a ten of which none failed would
happen ~35% of the time.

A sample of which 3 out of 4 failed would be much more rare. Thus you can
glean more information from a sample of 3/4 failures than a sample of 10 with
no failures.

I don't remember my combinations well enough to figure out the exact numbers,
so I may be a bit off, but you see what I'm saying.

~~~
qqq
You're saying, now, that it _is_ statistically relevant.

~~~
mattmaroon
No, I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying a small sample of failures
(assuming failures are significantly less likely than non) gives you more
information than a large sample of non.

~~~
qqq
Statistics take into account any valid ways of getting more information. And
they also take into account what we know about how to avoid making crap up.
You need to either claim to have a statistically relevant amount of
information, or to know nothing about overall failure rates of apple laptops.

------
alaskamiller
I like 9to5Mac the best out of all the other rumor sites. They definitely have
some good relationships with Apple employees since I've seen corp info (both
real and fake) leak multiple times.

~~~
quasimojo
GO BACK TO VALLEYWAG

~~~
unalone
I might be a patsy for saying this, but you're not serious, are you? Valleywag
has the highest ratio of noise to signal of any site that I've seen - with the
exception of the other sites in the Gawker portfolio. I try to avoid that
entire branch of blogs unless I've got good reason to, or unless I'm
recommended one article in particular.

------
mhb
And this is what it will look like being made:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=323877>

------
TweedHeads
For those who are being fooled into this nonsense, the "brick" is a new and
smaller mac mini without dvd drive.

Shhh, I could get fired if they know I told you.

------
LPTS
I was hoping the code name brick would refer to something you throw through
windows to break them.

The first 21st century telepathically assisted alien technology computer
factory is pretty good too though.

------
quasimojo
haha keep chasing the "high end" apple. you'd think losing 50% share price
would shake some sense into you. let me summarize:

2008: COMPUTERS ARE DISPOSABLE

you need to start thinking about $399 laptops, not $3999 laptops

what do i or anyone else really care if the laptop case is designed to last a
decade? i am going to be using this thing 24 months, not 24 years

apple's competitors would be stupid to chase this pointless luxury. users
don't know and don't care about better cases

~~~
jlouis
You are wrong. I generally buy a new laptop every 3 years. I tend to buy a bit
up the curve and get 1.5 years where the beast is fast, one year where the
beast is "adequate" and half a year where the beast is "slow". To me, it is
not about _performance_ in laptops. It is about keyboard stability, robustness
and weight. I have a blindingly fast desktop-computer and my laptop is for
when I am not at home or when I want to hack code in the recliner. I don't
need prime performance for that.

~~~
quasimojo
i can safely say that you, seeking not performance but "keybaord stability" in
a laptop, are a market of one. its so sad to see the fanbois try to justify
their iSlavery, almost like a battered wife telling the judge she reaaaallyyyy
stiiiill loooooves hiiiim.

~~~
jlouis
The advice I consistently give people when buying laptops is: Remember that
you can't change the hardware. If you hate a trackpad, you will be stuck with
it. If you hate the keyboard: though luck. Too slow a CPU? oh god, no chance
in hell you'll be able to change it.

I write code and analyze problems for a living. Hence, my need for a fast CPU
is not that important as I spend most of the time in emacs and use languages
that can compile _fast_. Do we happen to be a minority? Perhaps so. Had I been
a media executive, then my priorities would probably not be on the keyboard at
all but on how much RAM i could cram into the beast.

Apple is selling a brand as much as they are selling a laptop and an OS.
Notice that the marketing focuses on what _you can do_ with an apple mac. They
know how much you are buying an identity for your money in addition to a
computer. The Apple marketing is primary recruitment unit for the "fanbois"
you mention because _what they can do_ with the Macs matter to them.

If you look at Lenovo's sales pitches, you will see an entirely different
focus as they are targeting a different user base.

And for the record:

    
    
      jlouis@succubus:~$ uname -a
      Linux succubus 2.6.27-4-generic #1 SMP Wed Sep 24 01:30:51 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
    
      jlouis@succubus:~$ dmesg | grep thinkpad_acpi | grep model
      [   26.622322] thinkpad_acpi: IBM ThinkPad X40, model 23716EG

