
Samsung Acquires Joyent - yunong
https://www.joyent.com/blog/samsung-acquires-joyent-a-ctos-perspective
======
urza
Cloud orchestration, Container Orchestration, Kubernetes... I think I am
getting old and starting to understand how my parents feel about technology.

I am developer, but mostly work on desktop apps, or embedded devices or lataly
on some MVC applications. But reading things like

"A Container-Native Stack for Modern Applications and Operations Increase
development velocity while simplifying operations."

I have no idea what should I imagine and what is it good for...

any good introduction or explanation into what is it they actually do?

~~~
bkanber
So, you build a web app and it gets popular. It needs one load balancer, 5 app
servers, at least two database nodes for replication, a redis cluster for
caching and queuing, an elasticsearch cluster for full text search, and a
cluster of job worker servers to do async stuff like processing images, etc.

In the ancient past, like when I'm from, you'd write up a few different bash
scripts to help you provision each server type. But setting this all up, you'd
still have to run around and create 20 servers and provision them into one of
5 different types, etc.

Then there's chef/puppet, which takes your bash script and makes it a little
more maintainable. But there are still issues: huge divide between dev/prod
environments, and adding 5 new nodes ASAP is still tedious.

Now you have cloud and container orchestration. Containers are like the git
repos of the server world. You build a container to run each of your apps
(nginx, redis, etc), configure each once (like coding and committing), and
then they work identically on dev and prod after you launch them (you can
clone/pull onto hardware). And what's more, since a container image is pre-
built, it launches on metal in a matter of seconds, not minutes. All the apt-
get install crap was done at image build time, not container launch time.

Things are a lot easier now, but you still have a problem. You're scaling to
30, maybe 50 different servers running 6 or 7 different services. More and
more you _want_ to treat your hardware as a generic compute cloud, but you
can't escape that, even with docker, your servers have identities and
personalities. You still need to sit and think about which of your 50 servers
to launch a container on, and make sure it's under the correct load balancer,
etc.

That's where Kubernetes steps in; it's a level of abstraction higher than
docker, and works at the cluster level. You define services around your docker
containers, and let Kubernetes initialize the hardware, and abstract it away
into a giant compute cloud, and then all you have to do is tell kubernetes to
scale a certain service up and down, and it automatically figures out which
servers to take the action on and modifies your load balancer for that service
accordingly.

At the scale of "a few servers", Kubernetes doesn't help much. At the scale of
dozens or hundreds, it definitely does. "Orchestration" isn't just a buzzword,
it's the correct term here; all those containers and services and pieces of
hardware DO need to be wrangled. In the past it was a full time sysadmin job,
now it's just a Kubernetes or Fleet config file.

Disclosure: I'm currently writing a book on Docker. Disclaimer: I have not had
my coffee yet.

Edit: Since someone asked, I'm writing a book called "Complete Docker" which
will be published by Apress. I don't know the exact pub date that Apress will
launch it on, but I expect it'll be available in October.

~~~
urza
Wau thanks, that is an excellent explanation. I appreciate that it start with
things I know and understand ("so you build a web app"/"bash
scripts"/"puppet") and builds on that explaining what problems each
consecutive steps /layer of abstraction/ solves.

Now I wonder.. how many projects actually needs these kind of solution when
even StackOverflow can do without it (they are in the range of few servers)? I
would imagine it would be only few top popular web apps/services, but by
popularity of these posts it looks like it is probably a lot more...

~~~
bkanber
How many people actually _need_ it? Nobody! We managed to run servers for
years without containers or orchestration tools. Docker is a new technology.

Does it make things _better_ , though? Yes. Yes it does.

Kubernetes was designed at Google where they reaaaaally feel their scale
problems day to day.

I see Docker/Kube/CoreOS/ etc as the natural evolution of where we were
already going. Bash -> puppet -> vagrant -> docker -> kubernetes. Less
abstract to more abstract.

So it's actually "only" an incremental evolution in terms of managing the
server ecosystem. But it's a revolutionary improvement in how we _think_ about
server ecosystems, which is why many people struggle with Docker et al at
first; it's a brand new mental model.

~~~
ecnahc515
I'd like to add that this isn't necessarily even about huge scale. It's about
scaling deployment patterns too, which is different than scaling services.

Sometimes you need to have the ability to run more services when your "web-
scale", but even if you're not at that point, scaling how you deploy new
versions, and new services is still important.

Tools like docker, and Kubernetes really help with the application delivery
aspect, and really enable you to rapidly iterate on your project.

You might have a site with 100-1000 users, not huge by any means, and 1 server
could probably handle all of your needs. But once you start adding other
components, perhaps redis, or a runtime like nodejs, those can all be managed,
but if you need to rapidly iterate, something like Kubernetes/docker can make
updating or deploying these easier in the long run.

------
bcantrill
In case anyone's curious, I blogged about the backstory of the acquisition.[1]
tl;dr: We at Joyent are elated, and we believe that this will be a huge win
for our customers, for our technologies and for the communities that they
serve!

[1] [https://www.joyent.com/blog/samsung-acquires-joyent-a-
ctos-p...](https://www.joyent.com/blog/samsung-acquires-joyent-a-ctos-
perspective)

~~~
phaet0n
Congratulations. I hope Samsung nurtures the technical excellence at Joyent.

Please, please continue to develop your public cloud offerings. Having options
other that the myopic, me-too, feature-matching, monoculture that is
AWS/GCE/Azure is incredibly important.

That said, for my use profile, you guys need to work on your price
competitiveness. Hopefully Samsung will inject the necessary cash for
economies-of-scale.

~~~
rms_returns
> Congratulations. I hope Samsung nurtures the technical excellence at Joyent.

I'm sure they will. They are a top contributor to open source:

[http://linuxcontrib-inn.rhcloud.com/](http://linuxcontrib-inn.rhcloud.com/)

~~~
bogomipz
Why is your link relevant? Joyent = Illumos, which is a fork of open-Solaris,
not Linux at all.

~~~
benley
The point being that Samsung give a shit about contributing to open-source
projects at all.

~~~
fhars
The Samsung TV I got came with a pirated copy of linux, which is quite a feat
(came with a copy of the GPL 3, which is a clear breach of the GPL 2 only
license of linux).

~~~
egeozcan
Oh. I thought you could include v2 code in v3 codebases but not vice versa? I
may need to go through my projects if that's really not the case.

~~~
vertex-four
Linux has a specific amendment to the GPLv2 stating that it must always be
distributed under the terms of the GPLv2, not the GPLv3 or any later version.

~~~
tokenizerrr
Honest question, how is anyone expected to keep up with all of this? Software
licenses are not all that interesting to me, I just like making things, but
now I have to also read pages and pages of legalize for every single
dependency. I thought it would be good enough to know most mainstream
licenses, but apparently Linux has a modified version of the GPLv2? I would
never notice that, nor would I trust myself to even comprehend it properly.

It's starting to feel like I need to consult a lawyer before I could ever
publish an open source project, and that's never going to happen. I'd rather
just stop publishing.

~~~
vertex-four
> apparently Linux has a modified version of the GPLv2? I would never notice
> that, nor would I trust myself to even comprehend it properly.

The amendment is actually the first paragraph of the COPYING file. If you
modify any of the terms of the license directy, you have to remove the
preamble and refer to it as something other than the GPL.

The other option for modifying the GPL is to distribute a separate LICENSE
file alongside it stating something like "this software is released under the
GPL, except for <specific changes>". When this happens, there's almost always
an FAQ somewhere on the internet describing what the changes are intended to
mean.

So, basically - check the source files to see if they mention a license, then
check if there's a file named LICENSE, then check if there's a file named
COPYING. One of these should always point you to the right license.

Additionally, as a point, it's not actually a modification of the license,
merely a clarification - see section 9 of the GPLv2, which states that the
program must explicitly state that it is usable under later versions of the
GPL to be usable under later versions of the GPL. The boilerplate text that
GNU give you to put at the top of each source code file does that by default,
but, it's not required.

~~~
makomk
Which in turn means that the only way to check whether code you're using is
GPLv2-only and cannot be combined with GPLv3 code is to check the license
header in every source file. I guess that's not too hard - I mean, Linux only
has 40,000 or so source files?

~~~
darpa_escapee
It's not too hard because it applies to the whole project.

------
cpprototypes
Samsung is a typical asian electronics company (has a hardware focused history
and very good at it, but doesn't understand or respect software). I'm so glad
that node.js is not under Joyent control.

~~~
wrong_variable
I am not sure what Samsung being Asian has to do with anything :)

This is good news for node.js since what this means is more money gets poured
into node.js development.

For example Microsoft pouring money into JS seems to have lead directly to
Typescript.

~~~
pkaye
I have no personal experience working for Samsung but know quite a few who did
work for their US team and most don't have a positive experience. I also know
some who worked for other South Korean companies. Lets just say the Korean
work culture is quite different than in a typical US company. Hopefully the
Joyent guys will be shielded from all this.

~~~
contingencies
I worked with two project managers from their US team STA (Samsung
Technologies America). One was OK. The other one was a fucking psychopath. I'm
talking about needlessly and viciously backstabbing all in range. Totally
unbelievable. Never seen anything like it, and god help me I hope I never see
it again.

Later, I visited their HQ in Korea and met some of their Indian and Korean
development teams. They were competent but the work culture was toxic. People
were expected to attend 11PM daily review meetings where the issues list was
painfully re-read pointlessly and nothing at all was achieved. Koreans were
expected to live in numbered company compounds, catch a numbered company bus
and ascend to a numbered floor in a numbered company skyscraper after an
airport security style physical check. Smoking allowed strictly twice per day
in a designated corner of the compound. All movement is tracked. Psychotic
Confucian management style. I honestly thought to myself: if this is a vision
of the future, I want no part of it.

~~~
fatihdonmez
Then you should see the japanese way of working, it's also quite fun! I
believe this is common in most of asia. I have worked in China and it's not
quite different at all from what you're saying.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Working in China is way different from Japan/Korea, at least for the companies
I've been exposed to. There is much more freedom in how you get things done,
there is less hierarchy, there is more value placed on programmers (which is
why Koreans, Japanese, Taiwanese seem to come here to work in spite of the
pollution).

~~~
fatihdonmez
China is definitely way better than Japan. Maybe imitation of all western
products year over year could help them to have more western way of working
style and etc but still culture is workaholic, robot like obeying, not
criticising at all.

------
knurdle
Hey, maybe Joyent can finally afford to refund the people who supported it
when it was textdrive and then went back on their word! Snarky I know but I'm
still bitter about how it was all handled..

~~~
lftl
As a fellow early textdrive supporter, I'm pretty happy with the value I got
out of the deal. I'm still using my free strongspace account 10ish years
later. I think there was some email about a free hosting account I could
theoretically use with some company, but I never looked into it. Honestly,
textdrive's hosting was never really of a quality I could use in a
professional context anyway. I understand some bitterness, but any "lifetime"
deal has to be taken with a pretty big grain of salt, and I'm pretty happy
about what I got for the money.

~~~
darylfritz
> I think there was some email about a free hosting account I could
> theoretically use with some company, but I never looked into it.

We were offered either one or three free years of hosting on a Joyent
SmartMachine, depending on what your initial investment was. After this free
trial, you would be converted to a regular customer.

Adding my voice to the bitter-parade. Joyent wouldn't be where they are today
without us early bootstrap investors. It was basically a Kickstarter campaign
before Kickstarter existed. Not only do I feel like I failed to receive my
early investor benefits, but WORSE off was how the whole situation was
handled. We had to beg and plead to get our data back. The company essentially
went dark to all of their oldest, most loyal customers.

------
sintaxi
Hats off Samsung. You have just acquired a truly world class Engineering team.

Congrats to all my former colleagues who are absolutely amazing at their jobs
and wonderful people to work with. Samsung looks like a very good match. Hope
the transition goes well.

~~~
thinkingkong
Same. Great working with the entire engineering team at Joyent.

------
a_small_island
Joyent raised over $125M in venture [0], and no mention of a price? Wonder how
the employees faired in this...

[0]
[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/joyent](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/joyent)

------
Negative1
Forgive my ignorance but can someone explain how Joyent's acquisition moves
Samsung towards their strategic objectives? In other words, how are they going
to exploit this technology (and brain gain)?

~~~
combatentropy
From the CTO's blog post, it seems to me that Samsung became interested in
Joyent not for its most famous product, Node.js, but for its new product,
Manta, which is some sort of serverless, distributed, data-storage and
processing service
([https://www.joyent.com/manta](https://www.joyent.com/manta)). Manta might be
well-suited for the new hotness, the Internet of Things.

So that's how I saw it progressing. Samsung was looking into how to get in on
the Internet of Things, stumbled across Manta, and it went from there.

~~~
ilaksh
Manta seems like they are throwing the kitchen sink at those problems, tons of
containers, proprietary OS, proxies, etc.

If you want to store objects in a distributed way, why not just use something
like RethinkDB, which has proxying/sharding etc. built in? RethinkDB even has
a way to execute code with 'js'.

Or for serverless processing, why not AWS lambda or the crop of clones?

~~~
melloc
Manta doesn't run on a proprietary OS, but runs on SmartOS, a distribution of
illumos [1][2]. In fact, almost everything at Joyent is open source, including
all of Manta [3]. As for why not anything else, Manta has been around since
2013 [4], before other similar solutions, and allows you to run arbitrary
programs on your data. As an example, some of our customers run ffmpeg on
videos that they upload, to produce different variants to then store in Manta.

[1] [https://github.com/joyent/smartos-
live](https://github.com/joyent/smartos-live)

[2] [https://github.com/joyent/illumos-
joyent](https://github.com/joyent/illumos-joyent)

[3] [https://github.com/joyent/manta](https://github.com/joyent/manta)

[4]
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/25/joyent_object_store/](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/25/joyent_object_store/)

------
hitr
I always thought Microsoft/Google or the likes would acquire Joyent as it is
good product fit. Microsoft chose linkedin instead :) For Samsung this is all
about IoT .Samsung wants to own both the devices and backend. A good move IMHO

~~~
tracker1
MS already has Azure, with an infrastructure built on their windows core...
Not to mention having more services... and while Joyent's Docker story is
really nice, MS seems to be heading in a very similar direction with the
Windows Subsystem for Linux as Joyent took with SmartOS/Solaris, it's a poor
tech fit.

I'm not sure where this will take things with Samsung, likely backend services
to support their own "store" on their devices separate from Android. If it's
internalized, I only hope they release more of their infrastracture tooling,
which is very cool to say the least.

~~~
jen20
There is a world of difference between a new, untested implementation of Linux
system call translation to a _very_ different type of Kernel on a desktop
class operating system than the version on Illumos. The best thing Microsoft
could do with their cloud is burn it to the ground and start again with
Joyent's tech.

~~~
Ericson2314
Joyent's tech is very good, don't me wrong, but I think this is a bit harsh.

\- lx-branded zones and window's new layer are both doing system call
translation---you're post doesn't contradict this but doesn't make it clear
either.

\- At some point lx-branded zones where equally untested.

\- "Desktop class" is misleading because NT was designed for servers. Now yes
Windows as a whole is hamstrung by a business model putting desktops and
backwards-comparability first, but by definition the Linux layer can ignore a
lot of Win32 precedent.

\- Yes Illumos is Unix and NT isn't, but the difficulty in translating linux
systems calls lies not with the ones backing posix-interfaces, but the Linux-
specific ones. (Joyent devs can give you some great horror stories here.) It
may be a bit harder with NT but it was hard already.

------
ruffrey
Luckily they did not acquire Node.js

edit: I should have been more specific.. when an open source project is under
a company's wing and it gets acquired, you don't know what can happen, even
under MIT. Look at express recently. Since it's the under the Node Foundation
now, this is not a big deal. Had it happened a short time ago, there may have
been further turmoil in the community.

~~~
dmpk2k
Given that Node.js has always been MIT licensed, that's impossible. That's one
reason _why_ it had a liberal license; just listen to Cantrill's Oracle rants
sometime to get a better idea.

~~~
cyphar
Cantrill advocated the fact that CDDL was copyleft as a good thing[1] (it's a
bad license overall, but the point is the same) specifically mentioning that
the fact that Oracle couldn't use new DTrace and ZFS improvements from the
community was a good thing. I agree (though I much prefer the GPL).

So actually all of Cantrill's worries with Oracle exist with Node.js's
license. I am sad when I see large free software projects licensed under MIT,
we are doing ourselves a disservice by allowing proprietary software to take
advantage of the free software we've developed.

[1] It's part of his Fork Yeah! talk about the fork that is illumos.

~~~
Annatar
There are people out there like myself who are convinced that GPL is the most
vile, fascist license out there.

On the other hand, I have nothing against CDDL. I think the incompatibility of
CDDL with the GPL is what saved the illumos community (even if inadvertently)
from having their technology cannibalized by GNU and Linux. I'm happy that BSD
is benefitting from illumos (and vice versa), but I'm even more happy that
Linux isn't. <\--- I do not represent anyone but myself, the position
expressed here is my own and not of anyone else.

~~~
cyphar
> There are people out there like myself who are convinced that GPL is the
> most vile, fascist license out there.

Not proprietary software? Not "open source" licenses that don't allow
modification (which is also proprietary)? The GPL? The thing that gave us free
software in the modern world? Well, that's certainly one opinon.

> On the other hand, I have nothing against CDDL.

The CDDL has a provision that if any part is held unenforcible _it will be
modified to make it enforceable_. As a matter of licensing, that's incredibly
devious and bad. There's other super dodgy parts of the CDDL that make it a
bad license purely from a license point of view, let alone from "freedoms
given to users" perspective.

> I think the incompatibility of CDDL with the GPL is what saved the illumos
> community (even if inadvertently) from having their technology cannibalized
> by GNU and Linux.

What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and
modifies it? No damage is done to the original.

> I'm happy that BSD is benefitting from illumos (and vice versa)

Actually, because CDDL is somewhat-but-not-really copyleft, many BSDs
essentially have copyleft requirements if you enable ZFS or DTrace. Which is
funny, given how much they go on about "freedom to make proprietary software"
(something I'm against).

> I do not represent anyone but myself, the position expressed here is my own
> and not of anyone else.

Your position is also wrong.

~~~
ivl
>What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code and
modifies it? No damage is done to the original.

This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the project
than a proprietary fork. When BSD/MIT/(other permissively licensed code) is
used, modified, and re-licensed to GPL, the permissive project can't take
those improvements without also re-licensing. The CDDL indeed saved illumos
from being cannibalized and disappearing as a community. Had its features been
easily ported to Linux without a licencing problem, the project would probably
not have survived, simply due to the fact that there would have been few
reasons to stick with it. It's not just about what code is out there, and you
should know that.

>Actually, because CDDL is somewhat-but-not-really copyleft, many BSDs
essentially have copyleft requirements if you enable ZFS or DTrace. Which is
funny, given how much they go on about "freedom to make proprietary software"
(something I'm against).

Only in regard to changes to DTrace and ZFS. Still totally fine to build
proprietary versions of BSDs that include those pieces.

I won't go so far as the grandparent post here, but I'm one of those
developers that couldn't give half a care about "user freedom". It's nice to
have source as a developer, but my motivation has never been "freedom",
insofar as using and understanding the software, so I understand where he's
coming from in his complaints about the GPL. As a developer, it's more
constraining than the permissive licenses out there. To some, that's a good
thing.

~~~
cyphar
> >What are you talking about? Why do you care if GNU/Linux takes your code
> and modifies it? No damage is done to the original.

> This is more about the fact that when they take it it's worse for the
> project than a proprietary fork.

... Who is it worse for? First of all, that almost never happens. But for
users, there's no difference (if anything it's an improvement because they now
have better protection of their freedom) and the original developers can just
ignore the fork or merge the code and change license (which isn't possible
with a proprietary fork).

> The CDDL indeed saved illumos from being cannibalized and disappearing as a
> community. Had its features been easily ported to Linux without a licencing
> problem, the project would probably not have survived, simply due to the
> fact that there would have been few reasons to stick with it.

I think that's a very irrational fear. GNU/Linux took plenty of BSD code and
BSD still exists, many different projects take ideas from each other -- it's
what's called "collaboration".

> I won't go so far as the grandparent post here, but I'm one of those
> developers that couldn't give half a care about "user freedom".

It's disappointing that you don't want to _actually_ make the world a better
place (not in the standard bullshit silicon valley sense) by giving people
freedom.

~~~
dmpk2k
_It 's disappointing that you don't want to actually make the world a better
place_

Self-righteous much?

This is embarrassing.

~~~
cyphar
You think the world isn't better as a result of GNU/Linux existing? I
personally think that GNU/Linux has had a positive impact on the world, and
without it the world would be a worse place. Sure, my impact as a single
developer is very small, but I want to help a movement that I agree with.

~~~
Annatar
Linux destroyed so many good things, and some projects like SmartOS now have
to spend major effort in educating the populace at large on why SmartOS is a
better solution for the cloud and why data integrity and correctness of
operation are important. And all of that just because GNU/Linux is _argumentum
ad populum_. What a nightmare.

~~~
cyphar
> Linux destroyed so many good things

Would you prefer Windows? Because that's where the world was heading in the
90s. History happened, and what it shows is that Linux arose at a time when
_EVERYONE_ thought that Windows was going to steal Unix's throne. It's amazing
you have such negativity about a piece of software.

~~~
Annatar
> Would you prefer Windows?

I would prefer sgi IRIX 6.5, but that's dead. In the absence of IRIX, illumos
and SmartOS are the next best thing, so that is my next preference.

> Because that's where the world was heading in the 90s. > History happened,
> and what it shows is that Linux arose at a time when EVERYONE thought that
> Windows was going to steal Unix's throne.

Not everyone. I went through the entire '90's using Sun SPARC, sgi, hp PA-RISC
and Commodore Amiga computers, and neither did _Sun Microsystems_. Didn't
touch an intel-based PC until 2002, when I put together my first one, and even
my current intel based PC runs Solaris 10.

 _Sun Microsystems_ was the only company which refused to bow, and continued
developing Solaris. And while we know that eventually that company died, the
OS lives on, and is being very actively developed, with new features added,
and new technology invented.

> It's amazing you have such negativity about a piece of software.

You would also have it if your telephone rang with priority 1 incidents at two
o' clock in the morning because Linux has a problem which I would not have had
if I were using SmartOS. Then you'd have bonus negativity when you'd have to
log into a crisis bridge and explain to a whole bunch of angry managers (who
don't understand a thing about their decision to use Linux) that the
application broke because Linux killed the service when it ran out of memory
and oh by the way the data is also corrupted because the filesystem is a
design from the '90's of the past century. And no I cannot find out why the
application ran out of memory because the OS is locked up and when I reset it,
I cannot get a core dump for analisys because I do not have adequate tools for
that on Linux.

Computers and UNIX are my life calling, and since I am passionate about them,
I spend extraordinary amounts of time working on them and researching them.
Even what little free / spare time I have, I spend doing computer research and
system engineering. So when according to my research and experience, something
as inferior as GNU/Linux starts to push out a better solution just because of
ignorance, it is only logical I have developed an intense hatred of it. It is
messing with something I hold very dear, illumos and SmartOS - it's messing
with UNIX.

And when I cannot find any SmartOS jobs where I live because every single ad
says Linux-blah-blah Linux, you bet I hate it even more, since working on it,
_I get to experience first hand just how bad Linux is_. When I'm forced to
suffer because I am ordered to use Linux, and have problems I would not have
if I had been on SmartOS, it's becomes personal, and it also becomes not just
personal, but _professional_.

At home I have SmartOS and do not have a single issue I have at work, because
I am using a different OS, a better one, and I love every microsecond
developing on it and using it.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to do some more software
engineering. On GNU/Linux.

~~~
cyphar
> Not everyone.

BSD wouldn't have been free software without Stallman (he convinced them to
release their changes under a free software license publicly). Same with
OpenSolaris (the idea of free software wouldn't have existed). So, GNU was
central to us not being in a world dominated by proprietary software.

But GNU was never going to be ready (Hurd will never be finished), so Linux
offered us the opportunity to live in freedom. And people ended up using it.
Yes, the kernel Linux has _many_ problems. But without it, we would be living
in a much worse world than even the most broken of Linux interfaces and
semantics. But GNU/Linux definitely was a saviour for Unix.

Yes, Sun was still holding on to Unix. But they were the only one (apart from
Be, which folded soon after). But do you really thing they would've ever
created OpenSolaris if GNU hadn't come into being and GNU/Linux hadn't started
to dominate the market? I doubt it. History is odd like that.

~~~
Annatar
> Yes, the kernel Linux has _many_ problems. But without it, we would be
> living in a much worse world than even the most broken of Linux interfaces
> and semantics. But GNU/Linux definitely was a saviour for Unix.

Maybe _you_ would be living in a much worse world, if your entire world up to
that point in time consisted of Microsoft(R) Windows(R) and an intel based PC
_tin pail_.

I was fine with using a binary only version of Solaris, IRIX, and HP-UX; so
long as I could get those gratis, along with compilers and software RAID, that
was fine by me, as I had no interest in building my own OS at that point in
time (unlike now). I also grew up on Commodore computers, where, when one
bought a computer, it would come with detailed schematics, and the hardware
was documented in detail[1][2].

I can only offer you empathy for the world you grew up in, but that does not
give you the right, nor are you correct in assuming, that everyone else lacked
the same freedoms you lacked: not everybody grew up in the United States which
has fascist copyright laws. The country where I grew up did not have any
copyright laws, and if it weren't for that, it would still be in the dark ages
of Informatics and computer science, and I would not have ever become a
computer professional. Other countries, for example Sweden and Spain, still
have lax copyright laws, and thank goodness for that. The point is, don't make
the error of assuming that the entire world was mis-fortunate and lacked
freedom in this sense.

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Reference-Manual-
technical-r...](https://www.amazon.com/Hardware-Reference-Manual-technical-
reference/dp/0201181576/)

[2] [https://www.amazon.com/Amiga-Memory-Kernel-Reference-
Manual/...](https://www.amazon.com/Amiga-Memory-Kernel-Reference-
Manual/dp/0201181878/)

~~~
cyphar
> I was fine with using a binary only version of Solaris, IRIX, and HP-UX; so
> long as I could get those gratis,

That's not the point at all. You didn't have any software freedom -- how did
you modify your software? It's great that you could distribute it in your
country, but you didn't have the means to practically modify software.

Also, gratis isn't the point. I don't care if I have to pay for GNU/Linux or
any other software, I just care about whether or not I get software freedom as
a result.

> not everybody grew up in the United States which has fascist copyright laws

I didn't grow up in the US.

> don't make the error of assuming that the entire world was mis-fortunate and
> lacked freedom in this sense.

You lacked the practical freedom to modify software (okay, so you didn't have
copyright but if you don't have the source then you can't _pracically_ modify
your software without spending far too much time reverse-engineering it). I
hate to break it to you, but you did lack freedom.

~~~
Annatar
> You didn't have any software freedom -- how did you modify your software?

In a program called a debugger, which back then was known as _a monitor_. You
pressed a button, and the monitor was started from a cartridge, or you loaded
a monitor, and then you loaded the machine code. And then you stepped through
that disassembled code, and then you inserted _a breakpoint_ in a strategic
place. And when the program would stop execution, you'd _consider the state of
the program_ , and then you'd make the desired modifications, either by
changing the existing processor instructions, or by adding your own code and
hooking it in. Worked for an entire generation of crackers, I don't see what
the big deal is.

So in that sense, there was no closed source, as nobody can really hide
machine code, and believe you me, people have tried, and then some! But to a
_cracker_ , to a really good _coder_ , every piece of code is _open source_ ,
because there is _nowhere to hide_.

 _A much bigger deal was if you were not capable of this, because it meant you
were a lamer and didn 't make the cut._

------
bogomipz
I'm sorry but how is this a good fit? What is the synergy here? This
particular sentence is incredibly vapid:

"By bringing these two companies together we are creating the opportunity to
develop and bring to market vertically integrated mobile and IoT services and
solutions that deliver extraordinary simplicity and value to our customers."

------
monatron
As I toil away on a node based project that is interfacing with Samsung's
Artik platform (both the Artik 10 board and Artik Cloud) I finally decided to
call it a night -- check HN real quick -- and discover that Samsung is buying
the original stewards of node. I almost thought the lack of sleep was putting
me into psychosis...

------
andrewwhartion
Well done guys on staying solvent longer than the market could stay
irrational!

------
brotherjerky
So the biggest phone manufacturer now owns a lot of Node.js expertise.
Hopefully that leads to more JS in mobile!

~~~
wvenable
I had a friend ask why the Oneplus one 3 could possibly need 6GB of RAM. Thank
you for providing a possible answer! :)

~~~
tracker1
Well, buffering 4K video, while running other active services in the
background... finally broke down and installed FB messenger again, and it's
definitely better, but there are a lot of consistent apps that tend to be very
bloated as it is.

Given how well React Native tends to work, and I have to be honest, I like the
ecosystem structure better than most apps I've worked on in general, I can see
it actually working out better in many cases.

~~~
fungi
> finally broke down and installed FB messenger again,

Prob not great for more advanced messenger functionality but Face Slim
([https://github.com/indywidualny/FaceSlim](https://github.com/indywidualny/FaceSlim))
does notifications and simple/group chats fairly well.

~~~
tracker1
What sucks is I was perfectly happy with fb web, until they started cutting
features in mobile (can't post to a friend's wall, can't do a lot of things
now). The biggest issue is FB the app didn't respect the environment/usability
settings for extra large fonts.

------
bobsil1
This is John Gruber's nightmare :) (worked at Joyent before Daring Fireball)

~~~
pazimzadeh
It looks like Daring Fireball is still hosted on Joyent, soon to be Samsung.

[https://twitter.com/gruber/status/560507384536498176](https://twitter.com/gruber/status/560507384536498176)

------
yangtheman
As a Korean American who also has worked at Samsung headquarters, I think it's
more of bad news than good news, no matter how Joyent wants to spin it.

Its corporate culture only allows the most cunning, politically savvy person
to stay alive and move up the rank, and thus most executives (all if I limit
it to small sample of executives I've personally met) fit that model.

And shit literally flows downwards, where goals/promises set by them would be
pushed downwards and engineers have to take the burden.

It doesn't help that Korean society is very hierarchal and based on Confucius
principles, where you don't usually challenge older persons and/or someone
higher in the rank. This is one example that describes serious problem -
[http://thediplomat.com/2013/07/asiana-airlines-crash-a-
cockp...](http://thediplomat.com/2013/07/asiana-airlines-crash-a-cockpit-
culture-problem/).

For those of you who are intrigued and have time, I suggest watching Misaeng
with English subtitles ([https://www.viki.com/tv/20812c-incomplete-
life](https://www.viki.com/tv/20812c-incomplete-life)). Samsung isn't as bad,
but the same hierarchy, verbal abuse, social dynamics, and strict rules on
paper format exist.

The best outcome would be if they leave Joyent's management and culture alone.
But I doubt it.

I also have the first-hand experience of their applying the same "consumer
electronics" mentality to completely different business which required high-
touch sales.

There is no denying success of Samsung - multi-billion, international
corporation. However, Samsung is only good at generating quality hardware
products at mass scale. There have not been success in any sort of software
and services. Perhaps they are trying to expand beyond their strengths, and I
applaud that effort and they actually do need it, since it's only matter of
time Chinese companies will catch up and produce as quality products as
Samsung, as Samsung did to Sony. I hope it bears fruits. I hope they can allow
Joyent to succeed and thrive, and learn from that.

I will see what happens next few years.

------
vermontdevil
Is this the same company that sponsored the development of Node JS?

~~~
dmpk2k
Joyent funded most of node.js' development since 2010. Once node became
popular and competing companies appeared, with the commensurate agitation and
political fallout, Joyent became less involved with it.

------
corv
"Joyent will operate as a standalone company under Samsung and continue
providing cloud infrastructure and software services to its customers"

------
leommoore
Best wishes to all at Joyent. Thanks for all your work in the community over
the last few years, particularly with node.js. Hopefully Samsung will give you
the resources and reach to go on to better things in future.

------
ethbro
So this is the moment where everyone with a sufficient device / install
marketshare decides they need to buy cloud expertise?

 _" Samsung will immediately benefit from having direct access to Joyent’s
technology, leadership and talent. Likewise, Joyent will be able to take
advantage of Samsung’s scale of business, global footprint, financial muscle
and its brand power."_

~~~
smt88
Samsung is (and has been) terrified that their handset business will be
slaughtered in the race to the bottom of the hardware industry. They tried to
create their own OS to give themselves an edge over other Android
manufacturers.

Their fears have come true (and now it's even happening to Apple). Hardware is
an incredibly difficult, risky business, and differentiation is now in the
services/software arena. That's why Samsung, in particular, needs this
acquisition (and others like it).

~~~
ethbro
One thing that I never understood was how the Android hardware ecosystem never
saw contributing resources to developing more efficiently abstracted core
Linux + Android support for their hardware compatibility challenges as a
competitive advantage.

Disclaimer: I'm not involved in that space, so maybe they've started?

------
subway
SmartOS will be on ARM within 12 months. Calling it.

~~~
ranty
It's pretty much welded to x86 and it's entire design is server-only. It'd be
much, much harder to port than just using Android.

~~~
e12e
Android on servers, like Linux? SmartOS on Arm servers would probably make a
lot of sense, given that Samsung might then have a vertically integrated
infrastructure: mainboard/chipset, cpu, ram, ssd and software all made by
Samsung for Samsung?

------
alrs
This is great news for on-prem object storage. I look forward to seeing how
big Samsung is able to go with Manta.

------
d2ncal
If anyone has a good background, what exactly does Joyent have that is so
valuable?

It seems that NodeJS has moved out of Joyent. They have hosted container
support that seems to run on solaris, which seems interesting, but a bit too
much of buzz-wordy from their website.

I am not very familiar with this, so will be great if someone can explain a
little bit. I read the comments around orchestration, but am more interested
in Joyent's value proposition.

------
unixhero
Congrats Bryan.

If anybody deserve it, it's you guys.

------
hoodoof
I wonder how much for.

------
st3v3r
Well that sucks. They had a good run, but Samsung's business culture is
probably going to ruin them. Just check out some of the stories of their
internal software engineering process.

------
OhHeyItsE
Can anyone shed some light (speculate, perhaps) on Samsung's strategy here?
Just seems like an odd pairing to me.

------
sidcool
I wonder what would Samsung gain from an IaaS kind of company. Do they have an
IaaS product? Or is it for internal use?

------
ChrisArchitect
wow, Joyent. Took me a bit to remember what they were doing in the early early
days since we're multiple generations or pivots or focus-shifts on
now......but it was Textdrive/Textile/Textpattern CMS. Ha. Different times. At
least some of that still out there in OSS Land

------
carapace
(Thin sans-serif body text means you hate your readers.)

------
crudbug
Next up some SmartOS desktop / mobile builds

------
beaugunderson
One company with all-male board & management team buys another company with
all-male board & management team.

------
caffed
Ok... Let's start on iojs 7!

------
mattbettinson
Thought this said Joylent. Was confused.

~~~
bbcbasic
That would be spacex acquires joylent

------
krakensden
Good luck on your incredible journey.

~~~
dang
We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11913723](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11913723)
and marked it off-topic.

------
ClassyPuff
Great news and good acquisition as well. Great work Samsung!!!!!

