
CBS Bans SodaStream Ad - jack-r-abbit
http://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2013/01/31/cbs-bans-sodastream-ad-wheres-the-outrage/
======
doktrin
This all feels very hollow.

The entire tone of this op-ed strikes me as either impossibly naive or full of
manufactured outrage. How a Forbes contributor is somehow oblivious to the
nature of entrenched (and lucrative) corporate relationships is beyond me.

Not to mention that beneath all the free-market rah-rah chest thumping, he
entirely disregards the fact that a private company is quite within their
right, laws permitting, to decide with whom they wish to do business.

~~~
nsp
Forbes.com is essentially all crowd sourced 'contributors' at this point, each
running their own separate blog. There's very little oversight/screening of
contributors. There's been a pretty noticeable drop in quality since they
started doing this, I'm curious how long they have before the brand is
entirely diluted.

Source: [http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-
stories/173743/what-t...](http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/top-
stories/173743/what-the-forbes-model-of-contributed-content-means-for-
journalism/) [http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/10/06/how-
to...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/10/06/how-to-submit-a-
guest-post/)

~~~
gamble
I'm immediately skeptical of anything from Forbes these days. They have about
as much publisher credibility as Tumblr.

------
mistercow
>SodaStream has a product that could be wildly disruptive to the soda
industry, if successful.

Not really. Maybe with a different business model, but from the cost analysis
I've seen, SodaStream comes in at about $0.40/L, which is a little over half
of what Coke and Pepsi cost, but the cost of Coke and Pepsi is about 50%
branding anyway. A fair comparison would be generic sodas, which are are
closer to $0.50/L. So you're only saving about 20%, even though you've cut out
the cost of bottling water, warehousing it, and shipping it around the country
(aka, most of the actual cost of soda).

Which is to say that the SodaStream is a rip-off. They lock you into buying
their proprietary CO2 tanks (which are specially threaded so you can't shop
around), so it's sort of a similar business model to printers or razors.
Except, of course, that you can actually build a DIY carbonation system for
not much more than the cost of the SodaStream fountain itself (and it's not a
difficult build; you just have to connect some hoses to some off-the-shelf
parts, and you can find plenty of guides on the internet).

~~~
SoftwareMaven
If you really want the Soda Stream, you can get an adapter for a paintball CO2
cartridge. [http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/soda-stream-course-thread-
bot...](http://palmer-pursuit.com/cart/soda-stream-course-thread-bottle-
adapter-p-1102.html?zenid=2c6duq2slvqeft8r0qm6qqod73) for example.

~~~
DanBC
Is that food-safe? And is it taking Airsoft containers to use for sodastream,
or is it taking sodastream containers to use for airsoft?

An initial web search shows this, but I have no idea how accurate it is.

([http://www.micromatic.com/forum/us-en/trouble-shooting-
beer-...](http://www.micromatic.com/forum/us-en/trouble-shooting-beer-quality-
home/3180-food-grade-co2-vs-regular-co2.html))

~~~
SoftwareMaven
One of the reviews that I linked to talked about this. According to them, they
talked to several suppliers who said the food-grade difference was make by
turning the (source! I think) canister over and running it for a couple
seconds.

Take that with a big grain of salt. I'd certainly look into it more before I
used it. :)

------
ck2
The hilarious part is SodaStream costs as much if not more than brand name
soda.

Unless you just always pay full price for soda and are too lazy to wait for a
sale or think you are above coupons.

Maybe they made a deal with CBS to purposely reject the ad, because that seems
like a growing trend - to purposely get rejected so you get attention.

~~~
alaskamiller
They make it a publicity point when their ads are banned. It creates an aura
of forbidden fruit. And by god do people love to feel sanctimonious about
their consumer choices as political speech.

The genius move to me is the fact that after 100 years of marketing by PepsiCo
and Coca-Cola to create a multi billion dollar global market, here comes these
guys that just piggy back on all that to sell the same sugar water but
delivered in in shiny metal/plastics proprietary gadgets.

John Sculley should have jumped on board with these guys instead.

~~~
ebiester
To be fair, the sodastream is pretty awesome even without the cola syrup. I
usually skip the sugar water (or make my own) and it's still worth while.

And you can always hack the CO2 cartridges for DIY refill.

~~~
mistercow
Yes, but for less than the cost of the SodaStream, not even counting the
adapter to attach it to arbitrary tanks, you can build your own DIY setup [1]
(which involves screwing some parts together) which you can attach a standard
tank to _and_ which you can adjust the pressure on.

[1] [http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2012-06/how-make-your-
own-...](http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2012-06/how-make-your-own-home-
carbonation-system)

------
hop
Ad firm makes ad they already know CBS wouldn't allow. Ad gets rejected. The
outrage! The controversy! Ad then gets 10x more exposure and they can resell
the spot.

SodaStream, like Godaddy, Peta, many others before. Pretty smart.

~~~
pyre
This wasn't an advertisement that was going to shock value, but crossed the
line. This is an advertisement that was 'too competitive' with entrenched
interests. CBS saying that its advertisement sales are not a 'free market.'

It's less disturbing then the issue with CBS + CNET + CES2013, but it shows a
pattern.

~~~
kriro
Free (market) cuts both ways. Why shouldn't CBS be free to reject whatever
they want?

~~~
pyre
I'm referring to CBS advertising sales as a 'free market' microcosm. (The
'market' being adverts on CBS)

------
cleverjake
Companies regularly do things to keep good relations with their sponsors.
Isn't that assumed? I'm not in the ad space in any way, shape or form - and
maybe I am jaded - but this seems like something I would expect from a
multinational corporation

------
chaz
PornHub.com also submitted an offer to buy a Super Bowl ad, but was rejected
by CBS. Without a doubt, they knew it would be rejected, and were hoping for
the free publicity. Based on the proposed ad, I think they got their money's
worth.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/why-pornhubs-rejected-
super-b...](http://www.businessinsider.com/why-pornhubs-rejected-super-bowl-
ad-is-a-bogus-stunt-2013-1)

------
prodigal_erik
SodaStream puts a deliberately incompatible and patented connector on their
CO2 bottles just to charge a huge markup on refills. They sort of deserve to
face someone else's anticompetitive shady deal.

~~~
Erwin
I fill up my SodaStream with bottles from AGA here in Denmark (they have a
"get the 6th one free" special so the effective refill cost is about 15 USD).
There's also this system: <http://www.wassermaxx.com/> \-- again compatible.

Perhaps SodaStream etc. is more popular here in Europe as we don't drive quite
that much in cars. I'm sure I drink 20-30l of carbonated water per week; I
wouldn't want to have to carry that home from the shop every week and return
the empty bottles the next week.

Except making my water fizzy, AGA's CO2 production is apparently used to
extinguish exotic fires. There's a particular type of compressed wood pellets
used in heating power plants here, that wood is stored in large silos which
apparently can catch fire internally. They spent 2 weeks trying to slowly
extinguish this fire using 170 ton of CO2 shipped by trucks from AGA
(equivalent to 400,000 SodaStream compatible containers).

~~~
lostlogin
You basically need carbonated water on tap! That's a pretty amazing
consumption volume. I wouldn't drink much more than half that in a day if you
combined all my fluid intake I don't think.

------
dazzla
Really this is a big deal? I remember soda stream from the 80's in the UK. I'm
sure they even eventually had official coke and Pepsi syrups that could be
used with them. Didn't kill the market there and I'm sure it won't here.

Seams like they've been in business since 1903.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodastream>

~~~
jmccree
The whole "being green" thing has contributed a lot to their recent success.
Also their flavors (afaik) use actual sugar instead of HFCS and diet flavors
have no aspartame. I use mine just to make soda water and love it.

~~~
evolve2k
Are their green claims just 'greenwash'? Im thinking disposable CO2 canisters
can't be that good for the environment either?

~~~
dlwh
They're not disposable. They reuse them. You get a rather sizable discount
(50%) for giving an empty one back when you get a new one.

~~~
tmzt
I wonder why they don't market that more widely, I was looking for refills
around a display and couldn't find them. There was nothing about where or how
to get a canister that I could find on the outer packaging.

------
Kylekramer
Seems well within CBS's rights. This isn't a "ban". SodaStream could show the
ad anywhere they can convince companies with advertisement space to show it.
There is not an inalienable right to air any commercial CBS is given and
clearly CBS stands to lose much more from damaging their relationship with
customers who consistently advertise with them than the one time payoff from
SodaStream. I'll save my outrage this time.

~~~
recoiledsnake
I would've sided more with you if CBS were a cable network, but it uses the
public airwaves. That isn't to say that it should be forced to show every ad,
but I think it raises the bar needed to refuse an ad.

~~~
Kylekramer
How does using public airwaves change the bar? I don't see how using tax payer
funded spectrum really affects the situation at all. It isn't like it is in
the American taxpayers' interest to have an Israeli company's interest put
over three American companies' interest.

~~~
pyre
I don't see how the fact that it's an Israeli company has much to do with it.
Sounds like they would have denied the ad it if it were an American company
too.

~~~
Kylekramer
I agree with that even if SodaStream were American CBS wouldn't have aired the
ad (which honestly was created to get this exact article published), but I
thought the nationality of each company underlined how irreverent using public
airwaves are to this particular issue.

------
Groxx
> _If the SodaStream product is a better “soda idea” than Coke and Pepsi, then
> shouldn’t it be given a fair shot within any medium it decides to risk its
> dollars?_

On a private network? No.

~~~
wpietri
They are a private network running on public airwaves. That spends millions on
trying to buy legislation, including things like SOPA and PIPA. They are
showing the Superbowl, and the NFL has a special antitrust exemption.

Given all that, I don't have any particular problem mandating that they run a
fair advertising market.

~~~
lostlogin
I might be misunderstanding you, but what is fair here? If I was Coke spending
many millions per year with CBS then in a prime spot an advert was played
which made CBS a tiny fraction of what I had spent appeared and made fun of my
company, if be calling foul. At a bare minimum I'd be calling for some heavily
discounted advertising.

~~~
wpietri
In this case I believe a fair market is the fair situation. That is, CBS would
sell the advertising without special favor.

I agree that people with privilege get all cranky when upstarts challenge
them. And so Coke might cry "unfair!" when somebody with 1/100th of their
marketing budget outmaneuvers them. To which I say: boo hoo! Marketplaces
exist for the benefit of consumers, not producers.

~~~
lostlogin
Playing the devils advocate here as I agree with you: What if Coke walks away
from CBS - it wouldn't be very fair from the perspective of CBS as they
applied the same rules to everyone, and a lost a massive customer. CBS
probably doesn't care what consumers think, CBS are effectively dumb pipes,
and can charge through the nose for their service.

~~~
wpietri
Interesting point. I think that's only a problem if the different TV networks
had different standards. If the fair-market setup comes about because the FCC
says that anybody who takes broadcast or cable ads has to sell air time
fairly, then Coke won't have any incentive to leave CBS for somebody else.

~~~
lostlogin
Ahh, being a non-US person I am now getting it. I imagine there is something
similar for us here when stations were sold frequencies.

------
SeanLuke
> CBS banned SodaStream’s Super Bowl spot because, apparently, it was too much
> of a direct hit to two of its biggest sponsors, Coke and Pepsi.

An entire article and not a single mention of the fact that SodaStream is
controversial because its factory is located in Mishor Adumim? Seriously?

~~~
dotBen
Had to look that up... apparently Mishor Adumim is a factory area located near
Jerusalem in Israel.

Um... my guess is that it was not mentioned because it has no bearing or
implication as to the reason why the advert was blocked by CBS.

~~~
georgefox
"In Israel" isn't quite true.

 _> The EU's highest court ruled in 2010 that Sodastream was not entitled to
claim a "Made in Israel" exemption from EU customs payments because of the
companies' primary manufacturing plant location outside of Israel in the
Israeli-occupied territories West Bank settlement of Mishor
Adumim.[68][69][70]_

 _> Sodastream has been criticized for operating a manufacturing plant on land
in the West Bank by the Israeli non-governmental organizations Coalition of
Women for Peace[71] and Peace Now,[72] as well as other human rights
organizations.[73]_

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodastream#Controversy>

------
loudandskittish
And all I can do is be surprised that SodaStream is still around.

My parents had one in the 90's but it became harder and harder to get CO2
canisters to refill it with.

~~~
sarah2079
They are going through a resurgence, but from what I can tell it is mostly
driven by people who want to make healthier carbonated drinks at home (like
carbonated water + a bit of juice), not by people wanting to make a cheaper
alternative to coke or pepsi at home, who were the main market in the 80s.

~~~
TillE
> (like carbonated water + a bit of juice)

Wouldn't you save a lot of bother by simply buying cheap mineral water and
mixing with that? That's what I do.

You can get a 1.5L bottle of perfectly nice fizzy water in Germany for about
20 cents if you recycle the bottle and get the deposit back.

~~~
jpdus
I don't think that cost is the main reason for getting this product. It's just
convenient to always have soda water here without having to carry it through
the city.

I recently bought one for convenience reasons (after i learned about th glass
caraves) and am totally happy with it - I guess as more (young) people in the
bigger cities don't own a car (and only buy small quantities of food in the
supermarket around the corner), more will use products like SodaStream.

~~~
sarah2079
Yes, this is it exactly. I have never even bothered to price it out per liter,
even if it cost a bit more it would be worth not having to lug bottles of
carbonated water home.

------
jarcoal
CBS has decided not to do business with another company because it might
bother two of their bigger clients.

That is an outrage?

------
mikecane
Imagine is IBM had stopped the Apple 1984 Super Bowl ad...

------
ajays
I knew I'd heard the name "SodaStream" before. The other day, walking around
in the Castro in SF, I came across a bunch of protestors who were calling for
a boycott of SodaStream: <http://www.codepink4peace.org/section.php?id=470>

As a person who hates the throwaway bottle culture of soda (and the HFCS,
etc.), but who also supports middle-east peace, I'm torn here. :-/

~~~
ZoFreX
On what grounds are you torn? If you don't like the business model of Pepsi /
Coca Cola etc, avoid their products. If you don't like what SodaStream does,
avoid their products. No one is forcing you to choose?

------
bane
I got one a few months ago, it's really really nice not having to keep a bunch
of bottles/cans/whatever all over the place. The local Target stocks tons of
syrups and canisters. It's fantastic that it's cheaper and _slightly_
healthier as well.

Plus I've been experimenting with different mixins, juice, instant tea, that
sort of thing.

They seem like a cool company, I've love for them to get more popular.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
I've cut back a lot on my diet cola, but I really like fizzy drinks. Seeing
the Crystal Light (my goto non-caffeinated drink) and others makes me highly
intrigued. The 30 day money back guarantee makes it a certainty.

~~~
bane
Heck, I just dump the regular old Crystal Light powder into the carbonated
water and it makes a decent fizzy lemon aid.

------
grannyg00se
I wish them a joyous Streisand effect.

------
jcromartie
Queue the Streisand effect...

I'd expect this to be even better for Sodastream now than if it had not been
banned.

~~~
sopooneo
I think it comes down to whether the press hit can be as effective as a Super
Bowl Ad. And there's a reason Superbowl ads are so expensive.

------
morganb180
> I hope it gets a billion hits.

1998 called. They want their web stats back.

------
salahxanadu
But they _did_ air it.

------
corresation
Is there any confirmation of this at all? Did CBS _actually_ "ban" the ad?
This all smells a little like viral marketing, coupled with the "act of
defiance" posting of a youtube video, as if that is really a defiance of
anything.

(on a related sidenote, each year various ad trolls intentionally submit
unairable commercials and then post them online claiming that they were
censored by the Man. Not only do they get attention, they don't have to pay
for the original expensive timeslots either)

------
watmough
Maybe because the product in question completely sucks.

I'm reasonably sure that it belongs in the same dubious category as that other
great 'money saver', the FoodSaver.

