

Did an Apple 2.0 story touch a nerve at Samsung HQ? - MaysonL
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/21/apple-samsung-agent-provocateurs/

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jychang
I'm not a shill paid for by Samsung, but I still think this story is bullshit.
(Disclaimer, I own and enjoy a macbook and an iphone and do not own any
samsung products)

First off, journalistic integrity is dead. This post was nothing but hearsay;
there were no sources inside.

All it is is complaining that there's a strong anti-apple sentiment on the
internet. That's... about the least surprising thing in the world. All anti-
apple posts being upvoted and others downvoted is "just another day on the
internet".

Some investigative article with actual resources into the corporate background
of Samsung before all this fingerpointing would be a better idea.

~~~
darkchasma
And if you were a shill, do you think you would come out and say it?

Because, if I was a shill, this is essentially the post I would write.

~~~
adamors
Well, there is a large number of anti-Microsoft and pro-Google posts all over
the internet as well, do you think that everyone defending Google is a shill
too?

Or anyone who is saying that there isn't a Google funded smear campaign
against Microsoft?

~~~
threeseed
The difference is that the reporter witnessed what appeared to be a
coordinated effort to downvote the anti-Samsung posts.

~~~
batiudrami
My guess would be that it was linked to on one of the many, many Android
websites (Android Police, for instance). That would cause the exact same
effect (and you'd be able to tell by checking the referrers, but of course
that kind of thing wasn't mentioned in the article.

~~~
sjwright
It's a shame if Disqus can't provide statistics about traffic sources versus
action. I'd like to see what the referer traffic looks like, as well as the
country lookup for IP addresses.

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josteink
This article is stupid. You don't have to be a Samsung-shill (paid or not) to
hate what Apple does.

You just have to be a proper software-engineer to see that what Apple is doing
to the industry is harmful to your profession. Directly, short term and long
term. That Apple is using every chance it has to close and lock down what was
once an open architecture.

In a future controlled by Apple, no kids will ever learn to code in a open and
free environment. They will have to pay an Apple tax, to play in a locked down
environment, to develop things which will need Apple's _approval_ , which they
will again have to pay Apple a tax on to get delivered. Apple wants to kill a
future IT revolution, a IT revolution like the one which enabled Apple itself
to exist in the first place.

And on top of that, Apple is using patent-trolling to make open technology
less and less viable as an alternative.

Apple is one of the few companies I have listed to _never, ever_ give any
sorts of money or buy any sorts of products from, strictly from an ethical
point of view.

As a software engineer slash hacker you should do that too. And you should let
people around you know about your ethical code of software conduct, ensure
they are informed about why you refuse to buy, use or support anything made by
Apple.

~~~
pooriaazimi
> _That Apple is using every chance it has to close and lock down what was
> once an open architecture._

Open ( _although it's debatable if that is entirely accurate. As you very well
know we've been living in a Microsoft world for the past 20 years_ ), but
accessible only to a few of us computer nerds. They're locking it down, but
making it accessible to more people. People who previously despised computers
and hated working with them and often couldn't use them very effectively. Now,
they still despise them, but at least are less frustrated when using
computers, and are able to do more with their devices.

I find your line of thinking a bit selfish. It's like arguing why car engines
are nowadays sealed - _we can't even tweak our own cars easily - cars that we
have PAID MONEY! How will the next generation learn about car engines and be
able to tweak stuff if he wants to? They have to bring the car in to an
authorized repair shop that's been approved by GM and pay them lots of money
while previously we used to do it ourselves at no cost._

Not everyone has to know how to repair a car engine, or a refrigerator, or how
to compile a program from the source. What's wrong with that?

In other words, I don't give a fuck about my profession. My profession is to
serve the humanity. If Apple is making the lives of millions of people easier
by making my profession harder or obsolete, so be it. Now, if you are arguing
that what Apple is doing is harmful to humanity in the long run, that _could_
be a valid argument that's worth having. But arguing that Apple is an
unethical company just because it makes our profession harder (regardless of
whether it's good for the rest of the world), I think that's _not_ a valid
argument. I think it's selfish and disagree with it.

~~~
joenathan
You state it like it's an empirical fact that Apple products are user-
friendly, I personally find their UX to be confusing and even power user
hostile. Multi tasking in iOS for example or the horrible notification system
or even trying to find the options to change certain settings being in the
hardest to find places.

~~~
pooriaazimi
In my experience it has been really better than "old" systems (source: my
family and many friends). Of course, that's just one data point, but these
things are hard to quantize and measure. Still, the trend to "post-PC devices"
is a clear sign that people want things to be simpler.

> _power user hostile_

Exactly. If by being hostile to us, they're being more accessible to others,
I'd say it's a good thing. Now, _are_ they being more accessible to ordinary
people? That, as you said, is not and empirical fact and is a discussion worth
having. My point is that "we are not important. We're just a tiny fraction of
the population. We should ask whether what Apple is doing better for the other
%99 or not. Not being 'power-user friendly' is immaterial to this discussion".

\----

And I agree about the notification center or Settings app. But I see them more
as failures in implementation than a failure of vision.

For example of a horrible implementation, Windows (I have experience with
Vista and older) gives you a million different options for wireless/wired
networking. But setting a global SOCKS proxy is ridiculously difficult:
Control Panel -> Internet Options -> Connection -> LAN settings -> Advanced.
Or assigning an static IP to a wireless card: Control Panel -> Network and
Sharing -> View status -> Properties -> Select IPV4 -> Properties.

Now, OS X's Network panel is just as feature-rich as Windows'. You can do
almost everything you can do in Windows too, but the implementation is much
better. Creating a VPN, assigning static IP, setting a global proxy, etc. are
all easy to access: Click '+' and select VPN, then its type (PPTP, L2TP,
Cisco) and you're good to go. Or select Wi-Fi and go to Advanced menu and
instead of DHCP select an static IP. Or go to "Proxy" tab and assign a global
proxy.

That was just an example that I think OS X's implementation is far better, but
the vision (= intention) is the same: Give user the ability to change
everything he wants about the wireless connection. Just because Microsoft
failed to give a decent UI (at least in Vista) does not mean it's not
possible. Just like because Notification center is horrible doesn't mean it
can't be done better (look at Android).

------
mrich
The original story where these comments appeared on does not look very
impartial and appears to have been constructed to generate pageviews from the
Apple fanbase, so I am not shocked that the other camp chimed in to "protect
theirs". So it was a win-win-win for the author: Pageviews from both camps and
a follow-up article.

1) Samsung invested heavily in marketing - this is standard when you want to
sell your products. How is this a "dirty trick" as stated in the headline? And
attacking the customers of your direct competitor in a funny way is also not
dirty.

2) Paying bonuses to salespeople so they sell Samsung over Apple - if you know
the whole story you are also aware that the iPhone heavily benefited from
carrier subsidies during the years of its great success. iPhones were heavily
subsidized to the detriment of Android/Blackberry devices and affected the
carrier's profits greatly. See e.g. here:

[http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/08/technology/iphone_carrier_su...](http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/08/technology/iphone_carrier_subsidy/index.htm)

3) Short position on Apple - The author even discounts this as likely false,
and something like this would have to be disclosed in the books. Samsung is
much smaller than Apple, especially when Apple had twice the market cap, so it
is beyond me how they could have pulled this off without any proof.

That said, having read some things about Samsung's operations in general they
are no saints, and probably employ "more dirty" tactics than Apple. But I do
not feel good about Apple either, and the issue described in the original
article (paid shills on the Internet touting their company like there is no
tomorrow) is one of the major factors why I dislike them.

~~~
josteink
_And attacking the customers of your direct competitor in a funny way is also
not dirty._

The Apple-camp calling this "dirty" is especially funny when you look back to
Apple's rather famous "I'm a Mac"-commercials.

~~~
eurleif
And the "Switch" ads that came before them.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2-UuIEOcss>

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raldi
Even after reading this, I'm still not sure what an "Apple 2.0 story" is.

~~~
nostromo
Apple 2.0 is a blog about Apple:
<http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/category/apple-2-0/>

Without that knowledge, the headline is very confusing.

Here's the story this headline is referring to:
[http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/20/apple-samsung-
dirty-t...](http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/20/apple-samsung-dirty-
tricks/)

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kokey
Having moved outside of Europe recently I have noticed that anti-Apple
sentiment actually does run high in certain places, especially in countries
where Apple doesn't market or sell to customers directly. The retail prices
through distributors are high and customers don't see the value in it,
especially when the cost of an Apple product is much higher relative to their
income than for people in Europe. In other words they see Apple as some kind
of irrational status symbol for people who spend too much money on a product
after having been fooled by Apple's marketing. The irony here is that Apple
doesn't market their products in these countries while Samsung does so
aggressively.

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vl
Well, I, for one, was surprised that CNN uses Disqus.

Nowadays well-managed comments are a real part of the asset, outsourcing them
for a site like CNN is outsourcing a part of core competency.

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yoster
This happens on Yahoo!'s messages boards as well. Any article that has Apple
in it, you will see it get bombarded with hundreds of comments in favor of
Samsung or dissing Apple.

~~~
CJefferson
About 6-8 years ago, every Microsoft story was bombarded with pro-Apple
comments. This is just (for me) Apple becoming the new big bad, and Samsung
the plucky underdog (at least in people's narratives).

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drivebyacct2
Oooh a good new excuse and/or future scapegoat.

