

WebVR lands in Firefox Nightly - robin_reala
http://mozvr.com/posts/webvr-lands-in-nightly/

======
comrade1
I'm looking forward to the return of vrml. A memorable post on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7301062](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7301062)

"I worked on a VRML retail store that had 3D products on 3D shelves and 3D
customer service reps you could chat with. It was just like shopping in a real
world retail store, except you're tripping on LSD flying uncontrollably upside
down through a bright colored world of blocks and pyramids while wearing
binoculars until you punch a hole in the sky and your browser crashes. The
world just wasn't ready to shop in 3D."

~~~
anom9999
For all it's faults, I used to _love_ writing VRML. In fact it was probably
the last time I got giddy with excitement when talking about the internet as
everything since has just been a case of trying to get web applications to
catch up with desktop application.

I also agree that the world just wasn't ready for VRML. It was so far ahead of
it's time that it even pre-dated 3D hardware accelerated graphics chips coming
as standard on desktop PCs!

~~~
comrade1
Like myself, the enthusiasm that you felt may have had more to do with
yourself not yet developing a healthy sense of skepticism for technology than
the usefulness of the technology itself.

I can definitely see some uses for it - architectural walkthroughs for
example. But using it for creating a virtual store would just get in the way
of doing any shopping.

~~~
anom9999
Oh I didn't think it would replace HTML. For me the appeal was because VRML
was the closest thing we had to the 3D rendered remote mainframe logins that
Hollywood hacker films loved to show off.

Running around a VR modelled web page made me feel like the Lawnmower Man or
Joey hacking into the Ellingson Mineral Company supercomputer (well, maybe not
Joey specifically because he was a n00b)

------
corysama
Mozilla and Chrome's VR teams recently presented at the "Browser-Based Virtual
Reality in HTML5" SFHTML5 meetup.

[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUj8-Hhrb-a0Z3f70ygX5...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLUj8-Hhrb-a0Z3f70ygX5fXLk8Sa4mTQZ)

Tony Parisi's slides: [http://www.slideshare.net/auradeluxe/an-introduction-
to-web-...](http://www.slideshare.net/auradeluxe/an-introduction-to-web-vr-
january-2015)

Brandon Jones's slides:
[https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1e_Gto702fnYF1BhVllSW...](https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1e_Gto702fnYF1BhVllSWNmBYWbiAtxgFPNsgVOrjDfY/edit?pli=1#slide=id.p)

------
msoad
This is what's possible with WebVR:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-7J5OaSag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-7J5OaSag)

~~~
fra
I wonder - has anybody built a VR development environment yet? 180˚ vim sure
would beat my current dual monitor setup...

~~~
jimrandomh
I've done some experiments in this area, by transplanting my existing vim-in-
console-in-browser environment to VR. It's not good enough for me to live in
or invest dev work into yet.

Steam has a VR browser, which I used for my tests. You have to get keystrokes
in through a side channel, though, since it steals some vital key bindings
including the spacebar, and it has its own screensaver which I didn't find a
way to disable (and it can't sense keystrokes through a side-channel). A
purpose-built browser wouldn't have that issue. Also, there's no way to
control the positions of shells within 3D space or fill the whole 180deg yet.

The main issue right now is resolution. You get a lot more visual area to work
with, but at the expense of a much larger minimum font size. I compared the
smallest barely tolerable font size on a DK2 to the actual font size I was
using on my main monitor, and it was about 3x the angular dimension; that is,
the same visual area would either be a 300-column terminal on my monitor, or a
100-column terminal in VR. The DK2 is 1920x1080, so ignoring optics and
subpixel issues, a 2560x1440 Gear or CV1 would make that ~2.25x, and a 4k HMD
would make that 1.5x.

~~~
corysama
Whatever experiments you done, share your progress here:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/hmdprogramming](http://www.reddit.com/r/hmdprogramming)
:)

------
forrestthewoods
I have absolutely zero confidence that a browser based environment can run >90
FPS with very low latency and zero dropped frames. I'd say I'd love to be
proven wrong but I'm not sure I care. Why exactly should I prefer a 3d VR
environment running in a browser rather than natively?

~~~
corysama
My interest in WebVR is almost entirely for it's discovery and delivery
advantages. Downloading, installing, configuring and running a native
application certainly will always be the more reliable path to consistently
high performance. If you want to sit down and devote some time and effort to
playing "Elite Dangerous", native is clearly the way to go. But, for a quick
demo or cat video snack experience, are you really going to install my app? I
expect most people would greatly prefer the convenience and security of the
browser sandbox for the small experiences.

~~~
forrestthewoods
I'm also not a big fan fancy browser demos. People have this fair speciation
that anything in a browser will run well on their 5 year old laptop. This is
basically true. Except for when you get into 3d content. There's also an
expectation that things load relatively quickly. Rich games with tens to
hundreds of Meg's of content do not load quickly. Then they continue to not
load quickly everytime you go back to that page. (If not everytime, then
sometimes, which is even worse)

I do agree that there should be a fast and easy way to experience VR, uh,
experiences without having to download native installers for every one. I'm
not sure what way that will be. I am extremely unsold on the browser being the
solution. But if it works out then that'd be pretty nice.

~~~
sayangel
I think the browser will be powerful enough for some simple VR experiences
that consumers will want to engage with for <5mins. At least at the beginning.
I've been working with the webVR stuff and have gotten a consistent 75 fps on
an MBP, which is the DK2 limit. Not a 5 year old laptop, but also not a heavy
gaming rig that Oculus expects people to own.

Maybe webVR won't be the way to get AAA titles in VR, but it will certainly
lower the barrier to 1) development of VR content 2) distribution. I think
webVR can do a lot for the adoption of VR without "poisoning the VR well."

------
bennettfeely
Part of me wants web browsers to be working on fixing problems that are
actually practical and needed rather than these kind of Virtual reality toys.

~~~
onion2k
It's possible that working on new technologies like WebVR will feed
improvements to other parts of the browser (faster parsing, more robust
rendering, WebGL, etc). Even if it doesn't have a direct impact, just having
more smart people involved in brower tech will help.

------
robin_reala
Ricardo Cabello just tweeted:
[http://twitter.com/mrdoob/status/557884542787526657](http://twitter.com/mrdoob/status/557884542787526657)

 _Adding VR to the editor to celebrate the WebVR news. #threejs #webgl_

------
ikonst
Can it display VRML?

~~~
corysama
One of the creators of VRML is currently working on a follow-up targeting VR
on the Web.

[http://www.slideshare.net/auradeluxe/glam-35009205](http://www.slideshare.net/auradeluxe/glam-35009205)

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Dirlewanger
How about the basics in FF first: native 60fps video to start?

