
Is a Dumber Phone a Better Phone? - artsandsci
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/magazine/is-a-dumber-phone-a-better-phone.html
======
phil248
The article uses the word "phone" about 40 times. Based on my own usage
patterns, I don't even have a phone. I have a portable computer. I happen to
use it to make phone calls a few times every week. I use my desktop to make
video calls a few times a month, but I don't call that a phone.

We all know a smartphone is a computer, and I'm not trying to be pedantic
about the words we use, but I think our insistence that these devices are
"phones" is skewing the conversation. We keep complaining about our phones
taking up too much of our time, or distracting us, or manipulating us. None of
our phones are doing any of those things. But it turns out that having an
internet-enabled computer in your pocket at all times can be very distracting.
Are we really surprised?

~~~
apricot
You object to calling them "phones" because they're not often used as phones,
yet you want to call them "computers". What exactly do you compute with them?

We should all be honest and call them "trackers" or "distractors".

~~~
Koshkin
Well, the correct name is, of course, "PDA".

~~~
coldtea
It would be that if it was used by people as an "assistant" \-- and not to
play games, tweet BS, send dick/vagina pics, and watch cat videos...

------
ken
This is a nearly perfect PR hit. Controversial question in the title, about a
product category nearly everyone uses, with the product name in the first
sentence, for an indie-funded startup, challenging Apple and Google and social
media, published in the NYTimes in the middle of the week.

Short of an endorsement from Barack Obama, I don't know how this could have
been any better for them. Well done.

~~~
striking
We all live in pg's submarine:
[http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html](http://paulgraham.com/submarine.html)

------
alchemism
I've just abandoned using a smartphone in favor of a $20 dumb Alcatel phone
that can only do three things: calls, alarms, and an FM radio. It doesn't even
vibrate.

I offloaded every other functional use into my tablet, in this case an iPad
Pro.

The phone battery lasts for days on standby; I can drain my tablet battery
without concern. I can leave the tablet at home if I want to stay light or if
I want to stay focused on my activity.

I've been doing this for two weeks now, and I most likely will not change
back.

~~~
dman
What do you do for navigation? (Thats literally the only feature keeping me
with a smart phone right now).

~~~
rubidium
Not OP, but can answer. What everyone used to do.

~~~
ctrl-j
Get lost and have to stop/call for directions?

Abandoning modern technology doesn't seem like the better alternative in this
case.

~~~
kleiba
First of all, not having a GPS does not automatically imply getting lost.
People used to be able to navigate just fine most of the time before that
technology was available.

And then, what's wrong with asking someone for directions? I've been asked
many times in the olden days and never once was it an unpleasant experience.

~~~
scarface74
_And then, what 's wrong with asking someone for directions?_

Ask this 14 year old....

[https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/14/us/michigan-man-shoots-at-
tee...](https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/14/us/michigan-man-shoots-at-teen-asking-
for-directions/index.html)

The last thing I want to do is be lost somewhere in the South. Yes I live in
the south.

~~~
reaperducer
Thanks for the anecdote. Doesn't prove a thing.

~~~
scarface74
If I got lost somewhere where there are no stores for miles around I would
never walk up and ask for directions at someone's house or if my car broke
down ([https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/us/michigan-woman-
shot/index....](https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/us/michigan-woman-
shot/index.html)).

The "anecdote" is even in my own neighborhood, if my son invites some of his
White friends (who are _his_ guests) to hang out at our neighborhood pool. He
gets asked does he belong there? Do you think I would leave him in a position
to have to walk up and ask a random stranger for directions if he got lost
while driving?

It was sheer luck that both the teenager didn't die and the guys own camera
showed he was lying. If the boy had been killed the man would have gotten off.
If the camera hadn't been there, they would have taken the word of "upstanding
member of society -- a retired fireman" over the word of "just another teenage
thug" and the boy would have been arrested.

~~~
kleiba
Well, if my car broke down, I probably wouldn't ask for directions, either.

------
bungie4
When my Nexus 5 dies, I plan on going back to my old Sony-Ericsson feature
phone. Just before I retired it I put in a bigger battery. I can fit 3 of them
in any pocket I care to choose. It ran 2 weeks on Standby before giving up the
ghost. As for functionality. I'm old. Voice/Text/Camera. I've gone for years
and years without having a data plan. I typically xfer about 10 texts a month
and I might get 1 or two voice calls. Which leads to my next point; I even
managed to get rid of my cell plan. I ported my number to my employers plan,
he covers it all. I've got unlimited everything on the corporate account. So I
save about $500/yr. Do you think I'm gonna invest double that in a new phone?
Pfft.

Different strokes for different folks, but I wouldn't miss it at all.

~~~
dkersten
In 2014, my phone got cut off[1] and I went without connectivity for about 6
months (I was poor, doing a startup right after a previous failed startup,
maybe not the smartest circumstances). The phone was basically a wifi device
during that time.

I could have got a prepay SIM easily enough, but, oddly, I found being
unreachable weirdly liberating. Yes, it was awkward that I had to plan ahead
by organising when and where to meet people, checking messages (and maps) on
wifi and so forth, but knowing that once I stepped outside, that I would be
completely disconnected, was actually a great feeling. I knew that while I
travelled to the office, nobody would bother me, I knew when I was out
shopping, nobody would bother me. It was my time, disconnected from work, from
friends/family/random people, from news that I really didn’t need to read...

Nowadays, I have an iphone which I use for whatsapp/telegram/signal, email,
idle browsing when I’m not at home, very very very rarely a phone call. I
think when this phone eventually dies, I’ll replace it with a cheap emergency-
only phone, basically, like when I didn’t have a phone except that family can
reach me in emergency. I have an iPad for when I do need to access everything
else but am not at home or in work. Although, I don’t bring it everywhere.

[1] it was a bill phone in the name of my back-then-newly-deceased startup, I
had tried to change it to my name, the account manager and other people said
yes no problem and I went home waiting for a bill, which never came, then a
few months later they disconnected me and wanted more money than the phone or
the contract were worth to get it reconnected. I decided its not worth it.

------
ocdtrekkie
I have strongly considered this. I'm on a Windows Mobile device right now, and
as long as security updates keep coming monthly, I'll stay here, but
eventually I am going to need a new solution.

Android is an unacceptable security risk, and I am not super fond of Apple or
their limits. I was considering switching wholly to an LTE-enabled Windows
tablet (I have a Surface, but I've been eyeing a Latitude) and then just
getting a dumbphone for phone calls and texts.

As a Windows Mobile user, I've actually found not having the latest of every
app available on my phone kind of refreshing. Other people seem annoyed I
can't join them on the latest app, but it's a perfect excuse not to download
said app.

~~~
ender341341
Can I ask what tablet you'd be looking at? Perhaps one of the windows
laptop/tablets hybrids? Besides those I'm not sure what other tablets besides
Android/iOS you'd migrate to.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I've been eyeing the Latitude 7285, though Dell opted not to refresh it's form
factor in the latest product line refresh, so I'm a little worried about if
they'll keep the design.

It's a detachable 2-in-1 like the Surface Book, though it's magnetic instead
of the Book's slightly overengineered mechanized connector. It's also a lot
cheaper than the Book for what you get, far easier to disassemble and service,
and has built-in LTE available.

I currently have a Surface Pro 4, and while I'm relatively fond of it in
general, the lack of LTE on this model irritates me (newer ones now can get
it), and the biggest issue is that the soft keyboard/kickstand design isn't
sufficiently lap-usable.

------
usuallymatt
This might sound ignorant but I really don't get it. I realised a smart phone
was eating up my time so I weened myself off a lot of social media and
uninstalled a bunch of apps and haven't looked back. I use Signal and Whatsapp
to talk to a few friends, listen to music and read the news. Thats about it.

------
prolikewhoa
I went 2 weeks without a phone, gps, & online capabilities away from home due
to breaking my old Moto X Pure and not having enough money to buy a phone. It
was a great experience and now I'm trying to shift everything over to a dumb
phone or even just a hotspot.

I didn't need GPS, I just looked up where to go before I left home or work and
caught busses/trains that run every 10-15 minutes. If I absolutely needed
online access quick I would stand outside of a starbucks or another
restaurant/store I knew had WiFi and use my tablet or laptop. I purchased a
$25 original Zune for off the grid FM and music. I learned quickly how to find
& create alternatives to my phone and those 2 weeks were some of the best of
my life.

I really noticed how our population always has it's head down with a total
addiction to our phones. I felt isolated at Reddit group meeting where
everyone would take 5 minutes to just check their notifications and everyone
would have their heads down while I was just sitting there watching everyone
and eating.

------
softwarefounder
Biggest thing for me keeping a smart phone is the hi-res camera ability. I'm
not carrying a separate camera around

Second would be Spotify, and Podcasts.

~~~
tjr225
I often think about ditching my smartphone. There are a few things that a
smartphone puts in your pocket that really make our lives better:

nice camera/maps/gps/calling/texting/email/music and podcast streaming

Really, the negatives of having a computer in your pocket can be summed up by:

gaming/transactional purchases/social media/news media

None of those things inherently bad, but they do tend to be addictive.

So, maybe we need phones without app stores? A closed off phone with the apps
already chosen for it? Where would we draw the line on what gets included on
the phone? Would there even really be a market for this kind of smartphone?
KaiOS is the only thing that comes close...but it still has an App Store to my
knowledge.

It probably makes most sense to just delete the addictive apps off of your
phone and move on with your life.

------
BlackDeath3
I really love all of the things that I can do with my smartphone these days
that I'd never have been able to do with an older device (trying to even
browse the Internet on a phone that I owned as recently as five years ago was
_painful_ ), but I do miss a certain amount of reliability and hardiness of
the older devices. Maybe nostalgia plays in a bit here, but I think that the
move away from embedded device to general-purpose computer brought with it a
lot of the downsides of the latter, along with the upsides.

As nice as it is to be able to watch an HD video stream on my pocket-sized
computer on a stretch of rural highway halfway from nowhere, I don't always
trust my phone to be able to, like, dial 911 when it really counts, and that's
a little scary.

------
setquk
I’ve got my last smartphone. I’ll use it until it dies or Apple abandons it.

I’ve come to the conclusion I’d rather spend the money on a hobby instead.

Im also getting really fucking annoyed at how much stuff is broken for the
amount of money I spent too.

------
cglouch
I'm still using my "dumb phone" from 2010. I like it cause it has a physical
keyboard, a long battery life, and I can drop it without worrying about
breaking the screen. Plus I don't have to worry about the privacy issues that
come from apps collecting data.

Honestly the only feature I feel like I'm missing out on is GPS. But I've
actually found that not having GPS improves my sense of direction, since I
force myself to actually learn the map of my surroundings instead of just
always relying on the phone.

~~~
John_KZ
The two things I've missed without a smartphone is maps and the ability to
find phone numbers and addresses of businesses on the fly. Other than that,
there's no substantial reason to carry a smartphone. It's funny how much R&D
was used up to build what essentially is a digital phone book.

~~~
icebraining
I, on the other hand, don't use it to find phone numbers and addresses of
businesses, but use it all the time to download and listen to podcasts. Each
person might only have a couple of important uses, that doesn't mean the total
set is small.

------
blueseasky
I bought my first smartphone a couple of months ago - always preferred small
cheap dumb phones. They did fine for calling and texting, which was all I
wanted.

But the world changed on me! I noticed that over time people were sending me
longer and longer texts, and it was becoming difficult to communicate with
thumb-button texting.

If things reverted to how they should be (anything over 5 words should be an
email or a call, please) I would happily go back to a dumb phone.

~~~
mrweasel
It's not only the communication part of it. Increasingly there's a tendency
towards an "app first" thinking, where the primary thinking is that something
could just be a app on our phones. How this thing is suppose to work for
people without smartphone is an afterthought.

I do have a smartphone, but I strongly dislike the "Just download our app"...
are you really sure you need an app?

------
samwalrus
I now only use a huawei watch 2 with LTE as my only phone. I do not pair it
with a smart phone.

It allows me to use google maps, call an uber and see my upcoming appointments
by syncing with google.

But I can't check my email, facebook or the news, or other websites.

This means it is not distracting, but I have the really useful bits from a
smart phone.

The only problem is battery life, and the fact that sometimes it needs to talk
to a synced device (I use my zte projector -the os thinks its a phone)

~~~
alistairSH
How does that work for cellular plans? Are you in the US?

In the US, most carriers won't enable a portable without a linked phone. And
you pay an extra monthly fee for the portable ($15-$20, I think).

~~~
samwalrus
I am in the uk, I just have a normal sim in the watch which I pay £10 a month
for.

~~~
alistairSH
Sometimes I hate the US. ;)

We pay somewhere on the order of $40/month for a smartphone plan. And if we
add a watch, that's another $10-$20/month.

No option to use just a wearable.

------
combatentropy
People would be better off if they turned off the notifications. Even better
would be if notifications were at first off, rather than on. Your phone should
ring for calls and beep for text messages, and that's about it. Well, it
should buzz if you set an alarm. But it should not interrupt you for an email
or post on Facebook. Each app you install has all notifications on at first
too. I think it would be healthier for all to be off. On first launch, the new
app pops up a screen with checkboxes for each kind of notice, with all
unchecked. You have to put a check in each one yourself.

Other than that, the only problem I have is that the average screen is too
big. The right balance is about 4".

I like having all these things in one device: map, flashlight, camera,
calculator, walkman, encyclopedia, newspaper. Then again I am not tempted to
open it while driving.

~~~
nradov
Why is an email less important than a text message?

Large screens are great. You can see more without scrolling.

~~~
combatentropy
It's not less important. It's less urgent.

~~~
nradov
Why is it less urgent?

------
FRex
The Light Phone 2 features are _very_ poor[0].

Any dumb mobile phone from mid 2000s has those that are guaranteed in [1],
they also don't run a modified Android but a bespoke locked down OS, cost less
(Light Phone 2 is available for $300 as preorder on IndieGoGo and MSRP seems
to be $400), have a physical keyboard, some games, colorful display, email,
etc.

There are even some not so bad smart phones that cost less than $200 or $300.

I'd also expect things like calculator, GPS, unit and currency converters,
weather, dictionary, directions, maps, etc. to definitely be in since they
don't fight for attention and are pure utility tools that one only uses when
absolutely needed, not to procrastinate.

I also own an old 8 GB black Creative Zen Style 300 media player[2] from like
2010 or 2011 that is like 7x3x1 cm, cost me like 180-190 PLN (22% or 23% of
that is VAT) or so at the time and it decimates Light Phone 2 with regards to
almost all non-phone non-online features.

I'd consider myself as audience for a featureful utilitarian dumb phone but
not for something like Light Phone.

I wish there was an ARM flip phone (I love these as long as the hinge is good
and the plastic thick), with physical keyboard (I love them when they're
good), dual SIM, 1 or 2 GB of RAM, few GB of storage, SD card, low res
software rendered displays (main one and one on the back when flip phone is
closed) that you could code yourself against almost bare metal in pure C,
calling some built in APIs when you want to make a phone call, use data
transfer, access storage, etc. to truly own and personalize every aspect of
it.

[0] - [https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-
phone-2-design#/](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/light-phone-2-design#/)

[1] - [https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-
cld/image/upload/...](https://c1.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-
cld/image/upload/c_limit,w_695/v1519788149/fbeaeuv7zuuuncg9nq4e.jpg)

[2] - [https://imgur.com/a/QdMdHxN](https://imgur.com/a/QdMdHxN)

~~~
perl4ever
I had a decent Motorola smart phone that was well under $100, and did
everything I could want. I replaced it with a far more expensive Pixel XL,
mainly because of the nice camera, display, and CPU. But all the basic
functionality was on the cheap phone.

------
jtjuslin
Hi! Does anybody find it easier to concentrate to calling with old phone?
Still many things work with calling and hopefully will work on future. It is a
sort of doing mode for me, not chatting. This goes to psychology and I am an
engineer. Put so many many distractions to face on phone before getting to
calling? Distractions can be and are at least for me very hard to resist.
People are different. I need to turn off distractions, I cannot resist.

------
mentos
I would love to see Apple create an iPod with a 10Tb SSD and e-ink display
pre-loaded with virtually every song from iTunes.

The biggest issue is that it would just be a matter of time before someone
cracked the music library encryption.. Would a solution where the device
uniquely encrypts every song for the user's account and requires a cellular
network to retrieve a per-song key work?

------
alistairSH
$400? Ouch.

Cost aside, I can see the benefit for consumers who are prone to "social media
addiction." Or children, where a slightly-smart phone has some benefits to a
100% dumb phone and many benefits over an actual smart phone.

I'm trying to wean myself off most social media. Removing the FB app from all
but one device (and removing favorites/bookmarks from all browsers) was great.

------
rauhl
I don’t necessarily want a _dumb_ phone, but I’d like a _simpler_ phone. I’d
like navigation (which is the entire reason I got a smartphone in the first
place), a Web browser & Signal (or an equivalently-secure text- & video-chat
app), calling & texting.

Maybe that Jelly phone would be sufficient?

------
sandov
For those who want their phone to respect them, while still maintaining smart
functionality, I recommend LineageOS, it's a distribution of android without
all the google's proprietary crap.

~~~
wffurr
That doesn't actually change anything about the smartphone being a distraction
machine. All the same apps, social networks, constant notifications, etc are
still there. The fundamentals have nothing to do with "Google's proprietary
crap" and everything to do with being an internet enabled distraction machine,
which is true for all modern smartphone OSes.

~~~
sandov
I could say that open source apps — like the ones in f-droid — don't present
the same amount of dark patterns that closed source proprietary apps do.

But I agree, getting rid of google's proprietary apps doesn't necessarily mean
get rid of this attention/dopamine seeking world we find ourselves in.

However, I think a great part of how uncomfortable it feels to know that
there's a smart phone in your pocket is knowing that it's spying on you, and
getting rid of google's crap means that your phone doesn't spy on you, at
least not by default.

~~~
wffurr
A great part of how uncomfortable it is for some people, perhaps, but not the
author of the original piece.

~~~
sandov
Yeah. I went off on a tangent.

------
sunstone
All I really want is a feature phone, long battery life, water resistant, end-
to-end encrypted texting, onboard voice mail and hotspot capable. Is this too
much to ask?

~~~
sunstone
No upvotes so I guess this is a market of one :D

------
John_KZ
I'm a bit pissed because the article doesn't really discuss what they promise
to discuss.

------
lupinglade
Might be a better phone. But is a phone useful?

------
megaman22
Why do people hold up the NY Times as such a great newspaper? There's been
like 8 stories from them on here today, and it's the same repeated drivel they
trot out every two or three weeks, on the same topics, and the same low-energy
arguments. My flag button is wearing out.

~~~
reaperducer
_> Why do people hold up the NY Times as such a great newspaper?_

Because it's been in business for 167 years, and in that time has changed the
course of history and our understanding of the world around us multiple times.

What have you done today?

~~~
megaman22
> What have you done today?

Considerably more real work than I usually do...

A full third of the front page as I look right now is nytimes, bloomberg, wsj,
theguardian, and other fairly junk mainstream news sites. Must be a slow day
for the bloggers and people actually writing about technology.

------
lolive
The phone is not smart or dumb. The user is.

~~~
iodiniemetra
Considering that the darker edges of "app engagement" are trying to replicate
gambling addiction, I hesitate to call users dumb when they don't act in their
best self interest.

~~~
pishpash
Actually most of the pressure has been social, i.e. peer pressure. "Why aren't
you using this app? How can I reach you?" etc. Just have to say no and stick
to your own plan.

~~~
Analemma_
It's not that simple though. Those people aren't pressuring you into doing
drugs, they just want to be in touch – hardly a crime. Just saying "no"
without providing some kind of credible alternative can make you a hermit, and
not everyone is OK with that.

~~~
pishpash
If you don't want to be bothered you don't want to be bothered. Also it's not
like you're off the grid. You have more structured (and meaningful)
communication on non-immediate devices, when you want it. People who care will
reach you no matter.

------
Clubber
Phones are pretty boring now. I'd write another iPhone app if I thought there
was any chance in hell I could make a living on it without a million dollar
marketing budget.

I intentionally went without a cell phone for 2-3 years in the early aughts.
That's still an option.

~~~
floren
Not just boring but inflexible and a pain to hack on. I'd really like
something more like a PDA with a straightforward scripting language that lets
me build primitive GUIs for my own tasks.

~~~
moonbug
If you think that, I've got a Zaurus to sell you.

~~~
floren
The Linux-based Zaurus with the sliding keyboard was incredibly cool and I
still hope to acquire one someday, or even one of the later clamshell models.

