
Last minute tips for YC Interviewees - craigkerstiens
http://initialized.com/last-minute-tips-for-yc-interviewees
======
dilemma
Goodhart's Law: "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good
measure."

YC is the new college degree. This attitude of "figuring our how to past the
next test on the path to guaranteed success" is the opposite of
entrepreneurial.

~~~
garry
I would argue YC is very pragmatic about the criteria it uses to fund people.
If this were an every-increasing spiral of BS to get into YC, then you'd be
right.

Being plain spoken is basically the opposite of BS.

In the post I do note that this stuff is pretty handy for anyone explaining
their business to anyone. You should be worried if it were only useful to YC
interviewees.

~~~
tyre
I agree with this. The best companies and founders in our batch were those who
had thoughtful, direct answers to questions.

Posts from VCs can be helpful to hear the kind of questions they'll ask and
why they ask them (i.e. what they are worried about.) Answer directly and
honestly.

------
Alex3917
> Traction gets you in the door, the big future gets you the check

Interesting. Would you say this is just a more focused way of describing what
Leo Polovets has been writing about on codingvc.com, or do you think there is
a practical or philosophical difference in what YC looks for?

[https://codingvc.com/how-to-de-risk-a-startup/](https://codingvc.com/how-to-
de-risk-a-startup/)

~~~
garry
I think Leo nailed it with that post. I just had lunch with him actually and
it's remarkable how similar our philosophies are. Not that surprising I guess,
since he is also a seed investor who started as a hacker.

~~~
newsignup
> What makes people get out the checkbook is how big you can become.

Drew said 1M. So, its not that necessary to over sell than what you believe,
is it? Maybe now it is as YC has become a giant corp?

Where is the YC of 2007 which created more value per startup than current YC
(maybe i am wrong about the value per startup part but it doesn't look like,
also it makes sense for YC to care about overall value than per startup value
to create more impact just like big companies.. maybe ripe for disruption in
few years)

~~~
garry
I'm not sure what you're saying. You've always got to put your best foot
forward. What worked in 2007 is just not going to work in 2016, naturally.

~~~
newsignup
What I meant was Drew had applied with dropbox saying he would exit if someone
paid 10M. But current YC seems to be to big for that kind of exit target.

> You've always got to put your best foot forward.

early stage startups can be very delusional about how big they can become on
either side of the scale (drew quoting very less and some other startup
quoting billion dollars). So, its not really up to the startup to predict how
big they can become, it all depends on the interviewer. Nothing to do here for
the startup i guess.

------
garry
Just jotted my quick notes on what kept coming up with the half dozen or so
early interviewees I met in advance of their interviews the past few days. It
was surprising how the same things kept coming up over and over again, so
that's what spurred this post.

~~~
crawfordcomeaux
Would you be willing to share any tips for how to get an interview with
Initialized?

(edited to remove my pitch after realizing its not needed to answer my
questions and to remove a redundant question)

~~~
garry
I've been trying to answer emails from founders as much as possible, and have
been taking a few meetings from cold emails. My schedule is booked out to
December as a result, but I'm working through it.

------
alexbanks
How about advice for the YC application? I've read the sample (from Dropbox),
but I've wanted to know more about successful applications. Is brevity
important? Are screenshots and things allowed? How much concrete market data
should be involved vs. big picture, theoretical speak?

I'd like to apply next year, but I'm concerned about a lack of usable
demo/lackluster application. I've also seen people refer to YC as the "Ivy
League" of VC funding, so I'm stressing about the details of each individual
piece.

~~~
garry
I previously blogged here about the general application process. You should
definitely apply. YC is basically one of the few places where anyone in the
world can apply and have a real fair shake at having their application be read
and voted upon by smart YC alums and partners. Just as the SAT helped
normalize access to higher education, the YC app process is as valuable and
rare and serves a similar purpose to help great teams and startups rise.

Here was my article from before:

[http://blog.garrytan.com/last-minute-advice-for-yc-
applicant...](http://blog.garrytan.com/last-minute-advice-for-yc-applicants-
updated-for-2014)

~~~
alexbanks
Would it be alright if I emailed/messaged you some more questions I have about
the process? I've never actually communicated with anyone to have ever been
involved with it before.

~~~
garry
Yep email in my profile.

------
danieltillett
I have a more general query about the whole YC interview process. Do people
get 10 minutes and that is it or is this just a prescreen for a longer
interview process? I do a bit of angel investing and I could not possibly
decide to invest on the basis of a 10 minute interview.

~~~
garry
They literally get 10 minutes, and partners have 5 minutes after to decide.
Typical day is about 18 to 22 interviews back to back for 9 hours or so, with
a break for lunch.

~~~
danieltillett
Well they must be a lot better than me at deciding which startups are good or
not :)

I have spoken to many startups that seemed great after the first 15 minutes or
so, but where I found out something critical a couple of hours in. I love
talking to startups so for me it is fun rather than work to put in the time.

------
ajkates
Thanks for another great post Garry. This is also perfectly relevant advice
for talking about your business in general, not just for YC (investors,
prospective hires, etc.).

------
koolba
If you're the type to get queasy nerves from public speaking, strangers, or
presentations, best advice is a shot of Jameson 20 min before your interview.

~~~
idlewords
This is actually excellent advice, and I'm not sure why it's being downvoted.
It works well with public speaking and oral language proficiency tests as
well.

Don't have two shots. There's a local maximum where you're disinihibited but
still not impaired. Find that.

~~~
tptacek
That trick used to work pretty well for me, but sometime around age 36† my
liver crapped out and a single shot of whiskey will now make me break out in a
sweat. Alcohol sweat + nervousness + public speaking isn't a great
combination.

A single cigarette is about 80% as effective for me, without the bad side
effect. At a normal rate of public speaking, I'm not sure how significant the
health downside of those individual cigarettes might be compared to the
alcohol.

† _I have a brother a year younger than me who reports the same thing happened
to him, so this might be genetic._

~~~
idlewords
Your brother just doesn't want you to steal his liver.

------
idlewords
"Turn around and walk right out that door!"

------
mordae
Don't open it!

------
logicallee
This isn't true at all.

Literally nobody doesn't have any traction. Literally nobody has no big
possible future. Literally nobody doesn't understand something that other
teams don't.

Like, literally 100.000% of startups that are at that interview stage pass
every one of these tests with flying colors.

Don't believe me?

Let's go through what it would take to fail any of these metrics.

\--------------------------------------------

1\. Let's imagine that a startup doesn't "use plain language and is concrete".

Here's what it would have to sound like. I googled "computer science web
service patent 2015" so that I could quote the obscure language some link
uses. Here is something that isn't plain language, and isn't concrete:

A top link, to here
[https://www.google.com/patents/US8689181](https://www.google.com/patents/US8689181)
, seems good. Let's go with it. Here is their language: "A process performed
on a server includes configuring the server to enable script for a Web service
to be defined dynamically, where the Web service includes an application
program interface (API) for enabling access by, and interaction with, a
computer program executing on a device other than the server. The process also
includes compiling the script to produce machine-executable code for the Web
service, receiving a call from the computer program to the Web service,
executing the machine-executable code in response to the call to produce an
output, and sending the output to the device." This is the top link by Google.
Since it's a patent, it's not written in plain language. Since it's a patent,
it's not concrete.

Question: CAN YOU IMAGINE _ANY_ STARTUP WHO WAS INVITED TO A Y-COMBINATOR
INTERVIEW SAYING THIS,

"So, first I'd like to talk about our product. We've basically invented a
process to be performed on a server, that includes configuring the server to
enable script ofr a Web service to be defined dynamically, where the Web
service includes an application program interface (API) for enabling access
by, and interaction with, a computer program executing on a device other than
the server. The process also includes compiling the script to produce machine-
executable code for the Web service, receiving a call from the computer
program to the Web service, executing the machine-executable code in response
to the call to produce an output, and sending the output to the Device. So
that's what we do."

What percent of applicants will actually literally give a pitch like that?
0.0000%. A full 100.000% meet and exceed with flying colors the standard "use
plain language, be concrete."

\--------------------------------------------

2\. ...Then zoom out, and be sure to show why that could be something much
bigger

Is it possible that any team whatsoever fails to zoom out, or show why it
could be bigger? Well, let's imagine it. Let's say that some team has come up
with something without zooming out at all from it.

"We've invented a cable that can connect a new iPhone to a Macbook while also
charging both. Competitors aren't making this yet, but we already are. We
don't have any plans to make any other products now or in the future. We're
really, really, passionate about and focused on this one. We live to make
iPhone 7 to 2016 Macbook connection cable chargers, and that's it. We would
never consider selling anything else, nor would our customers want us to."

Even without that last part, can you imagine any such company has even been
invited to a YCombinator interview? Is it possible to imagine any company not
zoooming out?

No. A full 100.000000% of all pitches by companies invited to interview for
YCombinator exceed #2 with flying colors.

\--------------------------------------------

3\. Traction gets you in the door, the big future gets you the check

Let's imagine that there's no bright future. Let's imagine a team that says
"We're at $2,000 sales today, but within 5 years I think we could easily make
it to $18,000 or even $22,000 per month in sales. If we continue to dominate
our niche, we can have a solid market of literally a thousand people, if we
include the Asian market. This company will be worth $700,000 as long as we
are able to keep executing."

It's ludicrous on its face. No company is there with that pitch. A full
100.0000% of companies have a big future ahead of them.

\--------------------------------------------

4\. Know your numbers

"What are your sales today?"

"No idea."

"Have you sold any?"

"Not sure."

"Well you're shipping."

"We're shipping, yes."

"Okay, how many?"

"Dont' know."

"Well, what is your cost to getting customers?"

"No idea."

"How many people visit your site?"

"Don't know"

"What is your growth rate?"

"Don't know."

"How many fingers am I holding up?"

"Sorry not sure."

it's ridiculous. Obviously 100.00000% of all companies know their numbers.
This isn't even debatable.

\--------------------------------------------

5\. What do you understand that nobody else does?

again let's imagine that there isn't something. "Oh we don't know anything
special. We're just doing the same thing everyone else is. Actually our
business model is from a For Dummies textbook we found from 1997, we're just
following it. One thing that we can say is that the book does appear to be out
of print, so we do have that going for us."

Nope. Everyone understands their business better than their competition.
Everyone has secret sauce. It's ridiculous to even suggest otherwise. We're
not talking about florists where they happen to be the only florist in that
town so far, which is why they opened it there.

\--------------------------------------------

Conclusion

So these tips are absolutely, completely useless in every single way and will
NEVER get you an investment.

Here is how you ACTUALLY demonstrably get an investment. Ignore all of the
above and wow them with a story.

That's it. That's how checks demonstrably, actually get written.

I'm not opposed to the fact that this isn't widely advertised, but to waste
the writer's time writing things that aren't true, and to mislead people into
wasting their time following it, is pretty misleading.

I'm here to tell you it's bullshit and won't get anyone an investment, ever.

-

EDIT: Downvotes already, but I don't care, this is right and the article is
wrong - and, worse, is wasting your time. It doesn't matter what downvoters
think. If anything above were wrong, then I would edit it - I see your voting
feedback and I've responded to it by making sure that I am being very precise
and correct above. Downvoting won't make it right.

~~~
yurisagalov
I'm not sure you're aware but Garry was (for many years) a partner at YC, so
he's in a pretty good position to offer advice.

Also, per the HN guidelines
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)),
could you please resist saying things like "Downvotes already"

~~~
logicallee
The qualification you listed means reading this article is like asking a fish,
how to fish. (Or asking a person what they want in a romantic partner and then
doing that.)

Would you take advice on how to fish, from a fish, or a fisherman?

However, this applies to the qualification _you_ listed. Much more impressive
is the fact that Garry has closed the Initialized funds (so he's the
fishermen, LP's are the fish). For this reason I think that he can do much,
much better than the advice given in this article.

That accomplishment (which I read about) is super impressive - it's a $115M
fund!

He knows how he closed it, and he knows that it wasn't by following the rules
he's just listed for how to catch some fish. He can do better.

I have to stand by my defense of the comment given very swift and definite
negative feedback from other people. By mentioning it explicitly, and that I
gave it due consideration, I am showing that I am not being a troll or things
like that. I could edit it if I felt it was necessary and considered doing so.

More important than mentioning or not mentioning downvotes is the policy of
keeping HN a civil place of discussion, and I take a very extreme position,
that I feel is justified in this case. I am a bit angry by being mislead in
the past regarding how to pitch, and this article repeats many of those highly
misleading tips. It's simply misleading. It won't get you an investment. And
Garry can do better. (Assuming he is honest.)

I suppose it is possible that he simply is blind to how he is influenced or
makes decisions, even when he uses the same things for his own raising
activities, also subconsciously.

The advice in this article is not good. It's bad.

~~~
dlss
> Would you take advice on how to fish, from a fish

I think you were joking here, but holy crap yes I would take fishing advice
from a fish (provided it was a human-level intelligent fish that spoke
english... which if I'm following your metaphor correctly it is in this case)

More generally the issue with "not asking fish how to fish" is it's the exact
opposite of how successful companies treat customers. I ask my customers how
they liked the product, what they'd change, how they'd sell it to other
customers, etc, etc. That isn't an error. It's one of the most effective
business improvement tactics I know of.

This is not to say that the information source is unbiased (customers are much
less likely to suggest a price hike for example), or particularly skilled at
knowing how to address their needs (they'll ask for a "faster horse" when they
mean "gasoline engine" to ruin a quote)... but the fact remains that fish
(customers or investors) are the best source of information you have.

~~~
logicallee
>I ask my customers how they liked the product, how they'd sell it to other
customers, etc, etc

Are you being literal in the second half of your sentence? I, as well as
everyone else, has had loads of companies ask me about my opinion as a
consumer. I've never had a company ask me "How would you sell this to someone
else"? Have you? Do you actually state that question?

The statement "would you ask a fish, how to fish" comes from the dating world.
I was tired of not dating despite doing what my women friends told me they
wanted, which is wrong. I'll give a personal anecdote. Women looking for
serious relationsihps on dating apps will say they will left-swipe or reject
someone with just a picture of their nude upper body without a head. That's
not what they want to see, they say.

I followed their advice for a while. Then I ignored their advice, I changed my
profile picture to a picture of my nude upper body (I'm male) without my head,
and shortly thereafter I had a great girlfriend I was in a monogamous
relationsihp with, wherein we both deleted our dating accounts shortly after
first meeting.

The fact that women say this is not what they want (when asked what they're
looking for from 'pitches') is absolutely irrelevant to how to attract and
make them happy. This isn't some kind of meta-commentary on consent or
anything like that, I am just saying that it doesn't matter that they told me
this is not what they want to see. Because it doesn't matter what they say, it
matters what htey do.

It doesn't matter what Garry says, it matters what he does, and no, neither he
nor anyone else actually invests on the basis of the points he's enumerated in
the article. I point this out by showing what it would take to fail any one of
these filters.

Also notice how powerful this comment has just become, after I shared a
personal story from the dating world. (At least this is my personal
judgment/experience - perhaps you don't find it any more convincing than my
more rigorous argument upthread.)

~~~
dlss
> I've never had a company ask me "How would you sell this to someone else"?
> Have you? Do you actually state that question?

Yes I absolutely ask that question, and have been asked this question. If you
hang out around startups, especially ones using Steve Blank's Customer
Development Methodology you'll hear it frequently.

> Also notice how powerful this comment has just become, after I shared a
> personal story from the dating world

I don't know if I agree with powerful. I will say I'm less optimistic about
helping you come to a deeper understanding since, well, it sounds like your
mind is made up.

The best I can do is: imagine if you, and 7 billion copies of you, were the
only people on this planet. Now picture where the above philosophy gets you in
terms of global happiness. Perhaps strategies that emphasize communication
would do better?

~~~
logicallee
If there were 7 billion copies of me, then the best thing I could do to find
out how to sell to them, is to sell to them. Not the best thing would be to
ask them. Even more not the best thing would be just to look inside myself.

Garry didn't even relate how pitches he would have said no to got him to say
yes - because they 1, used plain-spoken language, or 2, zoomed out, or 3, had
a big future, or 4, knew their numbers, or 5, understood something others
didn't.

I mean companies he would have said "no" to but these things made him say yes.

Quite simply, these are not the things that make people say yes.

Perhaps a better example might be this picture:

[http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-
pa...](http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-parody-
comic/)

It's a parody, right? But not exactly: many features there were explicitly
requested by users.

market research is good and important. Of _course_ I would ask investors what
they're interested in, what they think about something, what they would invest
in.

But that is not how you get them to invest, and although Garry _does_ know how
to get people to invest, he hasn't put it in this article at all.

I suppose the article can be useful if you read it as, "What a YCombinator
partner says they want to see from a pitch." Just don't confuse it for the
real advise that will get you funded. This isn't it.

~~~
dlss
> I suppose the article can be useful if you read it as, "What a YCombinator
> partner says they want to see from a pitch." Just don't confuse it for the
> real advise that will get you funded. This isn't it.

I was taking Gary's list as "what to focus on if you're interviewing in two
days" (ie quite literally "last minute tips" as indicated by his title). Given
more time, I agree you should focus on product, team, and traction.

> Garry didn't even relate how pitches he would have said no to got him to say
> yes - because they 1, used plain-spoken language, or 2, zoomed out, or 3,
> had a big future, or 4, knew their numbers, or 5, understood something
> others didn't.

> I mean companies he would have said "no" to but these things made him say
> yes.

1\. Isn't this asking a fish how to fish? :p (Just pointing out we apparently
agree; happy to have you on board)

2\. I think a fixation on companies that save it in the 9th inning is
misplaced. If you're gong to cargo cult from a survivorship biased sample, you
may as well pick a group that didn't start off with an error (so imitating
"love at first sight" type companies rather than "won me over in the end" type
companies).

> [http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-
> pa...](http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-parody-
> comic/)

I saw this a couple days ago too. I took this as indication you need to
interpret customer feedback appropriately, not as indication you should avoid
customer feedback.

> But that is not how you get them to invest, and although Garry does know how
> to get people to invest, he hasn't put it in this article at all.

I'm getting the feeling you think getting investment is about a con-men
skillset. That hasn't been my experience. A focus on product, team, and
traction is almost surely a better use of your time.

~~~
logicallee
good reply but my last-minute tip is "focus on telling a compelling story" (I
know I didn't talk much about what tips I would give, but only objected to the
tips he did give.)

you are right that where I say he can do better I am asking a fish about
fishing - but when he bagged the LP's for his fund (which is a massive and
amazing effort) he played the fisherman (I presume.) so I think he's using the
wrong role - he's using his role as a fish to talk about how to get fish,
rather than using his role as a fisherman, which he also has recent experience
with. It would be a more powerful write-up. the Initialized fund is extremely
impressive, and it would be interesting to hear how he closed it (assuming
that was his role).

thanks for your reply!

