
Is Kickstarter selling dreams? - zmj
http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/07/19/is-kickstarter-selling-dreams/
======
powrtoch
> Has Kickstarter invented a new form of online commerce, where merchants who
> are close to you on the social graph, rather than in terms of physical
> geography, can thereby charge a premium for products which would never fly
> in the open market?

I think this is by far the most interesting sentence in the entire article.
Traditionally we think of the web as a globalizing force, which will tend to
strengthen big business: I might choose a mom-n-pop bookstore over Barnes and
Noble if it's nearby and I'm buying in person. But online it will be at a
severe disadvantage, and I'm not likely to find it at all unless I set out for
it specifically. It's interesting to think that there may be an online
equivalent of this physical proximity effect in the social graph. This
possibility seems to open up lots of interesting avenues for discussion.

~~~
maratd
In this case, social is a really fluid term. I just bought into the
Kickstarter for Wasteland 2 by Brian Fargo. I never played Wasteland. I _did_
play Fallout, which was also a work that Brian Fargo was involved in. One of
my favorite games. I would have never jumped in on the Kickstarter unless I
knew and had experience with the work of Brian Fargo. I never met the guy,
never even knew what the guy looked like, what he was up to in the last few
decades, never talked to him ... but I heard and experienced his work. That
was enough.

Is that social? Even if you never do any kind of actual socializing, in the
traditional sense?

Sounds to me like the internet allows us to strongly connect with anything and
anyone we have experience with, no matter how tangential, while filtering out
the rest as noise.

~~~
wahnfrieden
Social proof. You don't need to make contact with someone for social elements
to come into play.

~~~
wlesieutre
Does "social proof" somehow differ from reputation? It feels like a new word
for a much older idea, and I'm not clear on whether it's got some additional
connotation to it.

~~~
powrtoch
maratd's comment next to yours is correct. It's actually an old term (well,
old relative to social media) used by psychologists to describe the way people
make judgments (consciously or otherwise) based on the behavior of their
peers.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof>

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ChuckMcM
TL;DR version: OpEd on Kickstarter, and more specifically on Ouya.

Answer to the headline, in spite of Betteridge's law, is 'yes they are.' More
along the lines of why would you invest your money in a Kickstarter project?
And the answer is that what you imagine it will be like greatly exceeeds what
it actually will be like.

I pointed this out to in another conversation that making a good pitch is a
lot simpler than making a good product (We were discussing the difference
between hype and reality, our examples were the RasberryPi and the Ouya). And
people buy into the pitch, sometimes overwhelmingly so, and when it comes up
short they often blame the pitchman not themselves.

I experienced a bit of this first hand when putting together 'hobby' robotics
projects with folks. There is no amount of disclaimer that can break the
spell.

It reminded me of a t-shirt I saw which was an expression "Makers !=
Engineers" and I thought it a bit snarky at the time but realized there is a
grain of truth there. Anyone can have an idea, but not all of them can execute
on it.

~~~
meanguy
"what you imagine it will be like greatly exceeeds what it actually will be
like." According to Dan Gilbert, this is fallacy behind most life decisions.
In both directions: we overestimate the future pain of negative events, too.
[http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.h...](http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_we_happy.html)

------
freyr
Lots of people have ideas. Lots of people even have good ideas. But few people
have the necessary mix of talent, drive, and experience to turn ideas into
reality.

I haven't spent much time on Kickstarter, but my impression is that a lot of
people are being handed money for ideas before they discover out how hard it
is to turn those ideas into a tangible quality product.

~~~
cmckay
For product design projects, kickstarter requires that you have a working
prototype and a manufacturing plan. Most of the other project areas don't have
that requirement.

I just launched a kickstarter (
[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402474606/the-ilex-
edc-...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402474606/the-ilex-edc-pen-and-
capacitive-touch-stylus) ) and it was clear there was at least some human
involvement in the approval process.

------
chilgart
The first time I ever visited Kickstarter was almost a year ago today. I don't
remember how but I became interested in a neat little device called the
Klinggon ([http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/klinggon/klinggon-the-
ma...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/klinggon/klinggon-the-magnetic-
earphone-cord-holder)). I thought about putting money down but decided that I
would just wait for a public launch and try one in a store.

And wouldn't you know it, all that remains of the project is a website "under
contruction" and no estimates of delivery for the product. Dodged a (cheap)
bullet there.

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JoeAltmaier
Lots of talk about spending $100 on a dream; but the median (and mode)
investment on kickstarter is between $10 and $25.

Strangely, there are over half as many investors between $25 and $50, which
means they account for more of the invested dollars.

Again, there are over half as many investors between $50 and $100 as 25-50.

Which means, the whales are where the money is at.

~~~
patio11
_Which means, the whales are where the money is at._

I'd quibble with your definition of "whale" here (if you use it for $100 what
would you use for the $1k / $10k tiers which _do fill up_ for some projects),
but "Higher price points are worth more gross revenue" is a) useful to know
and b) entirely in line with my expectations.

~~~
glimcat
$100-200 is a great spot for small e-commerce businesses to target in general.
No faffing about with tiny margins on a $5 transaction, no chasing overly-
general markets to make up the transaction volume you need to stay alive.

For Kickstarter projects, maybe your low-denomination tier is more about
expanding your marketing reach than it is about the money it raises directly.

------
larrys
"If some as-yet nonexistent magazine had sent me a piece of direct mail,
asking $15 for its launch issue, I would never have paid that. Even if an
existing magazine looked really good on the newsstand, and had a cover price
of $15, I would similarly never pay that. But somehow the idea that by paying
the $15 up front I was helping to create that magazine — that was enough to
get me to pay. ... I think that’s the real key here: I’m not paying for the
sensation of a hypothetical idea, so much as paying to support the individuals
whom I like and admire. "

"Even if an existing magazine looked really good on the newsstand"

Ok all of the above is true. But if you passed the newsstand and saw the ten
people in front of you all buying an issue, or, when you see a line at a
restaurant you take notice and think something is special that is going on. Or
if you walk into the office and see your friends bought the magazine what
happens then?

To me, that is what is happening with kickstarter (among other things of
course obviously). There is a lemming effect same reason people will follow
people who park their cars on the lawn at an event (even if the sign says "no
parking") or ignore a persons plea (famous NYC case years ago) if others
aren't doing something.

That to me is the behavior that is going on with kickstarter. You see others
are contributing. You wonder if they know something you don't. You decide to
take advantage.

Edit: "You wonder if they know something you don't." I probably didn't state
this as well as I could. In the shortness of time let's look at it this way.
You see a pebble watch raises a million dollars on kickstarter. That
definitely creates a halo in your mind to strongly doing the same. Now you
might say "chicken and egg" to that but the fact is observation of what others
are doing who are like minded generally sways people in a certain direction.

------
Zenst
In one way kickstarter is a modern form of the penny shares market. It is also
a easy way to ask for small bits of alot of people instead of large bits of a
few people. You also in many cases garantee the outlay needed to do a min run
of your product on outsourced production lines. In a way, helping you to
kickstart your company and in that it's a great name and approach. Is it
selling dreams, how do you define a dream. Is it buying a ticket to see your
favorite team play or paying the same amount or less to get a product/service
at a great price of something that appeals to you. Both are supporting
somebody else and in return you get entertainment and the rest is a bonus. So
maybe your buying a lottery ticket in many ways, but the odd's are way better.
As long as there is protection from scamming thru fake projects and the like
then all is well. All pretty clear and good allround.

    
    
      Think of it as a geeks shopping channel.

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forgottenpaswrd
"When faced with the reality of these products, disappointment is
inevitable.."

I had backed six projects, one with near $1000 and I'm really happy of what I
got, actual things. Maybe it is just me but I see ks as the extension of the
real world.

In the real world there are people that you can't trust, but there is also
people that you can, and most important that you SHOULD TRUST if you want to
enjoy life.

We will always have the cynics and critics that enjoy trashing any new effort
and from the convenience of their sofa, and that even get a life from that,
but , it is not the critic who counts, the world is made by the people brave
enough to risk and fail.

------
sharkweek
Have there been any notable scams on Kickstarter yet? I'm curious what sort of
impact a massive scandal through these crowd funding sites would have on
future donations

~~~
papsosouid
[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/katalyka/post...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820893788/katalyka/posts/239764)

I don't think anyone is sure if this was a scam, or if he or she is genuinely
crazy. But, people funded a board game, and now the sun says no.

~~~
ajross
It does seem like scamming $8k for a board game points more to "crazy". Though
I guess if you were serious about this you could come up with an assembly line
for plausible-sounding small ticket projects, invent personas for each, and
come up with some just-interesting-enough sample content to get it funded. I
still vote crazy.

------
mtgx
People should be aware that even though they say they can give you a watch or
whatever half a year from now for $99, that doesn't mean that they will or
that it will be as good as you think it will be.

But yes, Kickstarter is selling dreams. It's helping start-ups take off simply
by believing in their vision.

~~~
jaems33
"But yes, Kickstarter is selling dreams. It's helping start-ups take off
simply by believing in their vision."

Funny. I applied to KS two years ago and they rejected me because "they don't
fund start-ups."

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fallous
Is there an "inverted" kickstarter anywhere? Basically putting out a request
for Widget and companies/individuals present offers to provide Widget. Close
the loop with a kickstarter-type order/financing aggregation and you get
purely demand-driven products.

~~~
cdawzrd
MFG.com does the first part of that, without the order aggregation.

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msrpotus
What did you think it was selling?

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vtry
Internet Scam Alert: Most "Kickstarter" Projects Just Useless Crap
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqZ65pUQxyQ>

By the onion

