
Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices - doener
http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-wont-sell-nest-products-from-google-2018-3?IR=T
======
tyler_larson
The problem here isn't so much that Amazon is going to hurt Google. Google
will survive. But we only hear about this story because Google is who Amazon
is attacking (today).

The bigger problem is that Amazon has set themselves up as the global arbiter
of commerce, acting as a relatively neutral marketplace matching buyers to
sellers worldwide, replacing many or most of the smaller commerce hubs and
marketplaces that used to exist.

But once in that position, they exercise control over which products can be
sold with the explicit intention of destroying competitors, replacing what
would otherwise be a consumer favorite with their own inferior (according to
market preference) alternate.

Everyone talks about monopolists and moral hazard and market manipulation, but
Amazon seems to be the only modern company with the unique combination of
dominance, confidence, and poor executive judgment to actually make it a
consistent and overt company policy.

~~~
ethana
Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different
than Amazon's behavior. I'd imagine Windows Phone might as well died even if
there were Google apps on it. But by actively preventing third-parties from
porting their services to WP, Google intentionally tried to kill it. Now they
now practically own the global market of smartphones. Not saying any of this
is right, but I've less empathy for them.

~~~
notatoad
>But by actively preventing third-parties from porting their services to WP

[citation needed]

The only history i'm aware of with google blocking app development on windows
phone is when they sent C&Ds to people developing apps that stripped all the
ads off youtube and played background audio. They also consistently take down
and block android apps that violate the TOS in this way, and i don't see
anybody saying that google is trying to kill android.

~~~
zeusk
Hahaha

[https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-
win...](https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-window-phone-
youtube-app)

[https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-
respond...](https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-responds-to-
google-youtube-windows-phone-block)

Google pulls this same bs with consoles as well, both PS4 and Xbox One (S/X)
have a shitty HTML5 app that just doesn't fit well with rest of the system.

~~~
ChrisAntaki
Really? I've used the ps4 YouTube app a bunch to watch videos, and movies
purchased from the play store. My phone can cast to it as well. Seems to work
as well as the Netflix app. I've had more issues with the ps4 store app
honestly.

------
Someone1234
This is creating an edge in the market where independent merchants and
services can operate and their independence is their virtue.

For an example, Google has Chromecast/YouTube, Amazon has Amazon Fire/Prime
Video, and they're less and less interoperable year upon year. This war
creates an edge that Roku can squeeze into, which has support for every major
vendor except Apple.

I find myself using Target and Walmart's websites more than ever before, not
due to some moralistic protest, but simply because they're now more
competitive and have products Amazon don't stock (like Google Home Mini for
one example).

I find it interesting from a business perspective that Amazon chooses to push
out competition, whereas most major retailers stock both own brand and branded
products side by side, and profit no matter what the consumer selects.

I wonder when Alibaba US and EU will open. If Alibaba will sell anything and
Amazon is protectionist, I can see that being Alibaba's edge.

~~~
janesvilleseo
When all the stores price match I have no reason to shop online unless I can’t
find it in store. Amazon app is used almost exclusively to price match on my
phone. Saved $1000’s

~~~
dpark
I’ll pay more to not drive to a brick and mortar at this point. I don’t want
to get in my car and go to Best Buy or Target or whatever and _hope_ they’re
stocking what I want, when I _know_ I can get it in two days from Amazon or
another online retailer. I’ve been bitten by that too many times. I sometimes
miss browsing in person, but I don’t miss wasting my time.

~~~
esturk
Let's not forget that Amazon Prime has gotten worse with longer delivery
periods even when they say it's 2 days. It has been coming later. And this is
outside the holidays.

~~~
SeanBoocock
Really? That's not been my anecdotal experience but would be curious to hear
if this is a common experience. I have had trouble with Amazon's own courier,
but have largely mitigated that issue by asking Amazon customer service to use
other couriers.

~~~
lostapathy
Its gotten really bad for me and a lot of my friends, lots of prime deliveries
on little stuff take 4-5 days, and a lot of items say one day at checkout then
a day later when i get the shipping notice, It’s ridiculous. Especially so
since i live under 2 miles from an Amazon warehouse.

------
nextstepguy
Read the story about Amazon authorizing fake Chromecast devices to be sold,
while blocking the real ones. Mind you the devices look exactly the same
(minus better bandwidth.) Read some of the reviews from folks buying the
imitation, knowing it wasn't the real deal, but nevertheless bought them
because "where else could they buy from?". Those comments and now this make me
wonder how strong Amazon has become to decide what consumers can buy or not.

------
dm319
How is this not illegal? If google took amazon off their search engine, what
would happen?

~~~
8note
it's not illegal for Google to block Amazon's app store from Google play

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Very few people seem to remember Google started this little war with blocking
access to Google Apps on Amazon devices and blocking their app store on Google
Play equipped devices.

It is weird though because a couple months ago I thought they had announced
they had come to some agreement, and now it seems to be escalating again.

~~~
zeeZ
Didn't Amazon start this by not allowing Chromecast to be sold on their
platform?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Chromecasts can't be set up on Amazon devices such as the Kindle Fire, because
Google prohibits Google Apps from being installed on Android forks. Therefore,
Google was refusing to permit compatibility, functionally, with Amazon's
devices. It appears that Amazon attempted to negotiate with Google over
compatibility issues, and didn't get anywhere, and hence, chose to not sell
devices which were intentionally blocked from being used with their tablets.
(And of course, they did similar with Apple TV for the same reason.)

There's no technical reason Chromecasts can't be set up by Kindle Fire
devices, it's an intentionally-implemented block by Google.

~~~
JshWright
Amazon's fork of Android is not a platform Google is obligated to support.
Amazon chooses not to include Chromecast support in their Amazon Video Android
app

~~~
bitmapbrother
It should also be noted that Amazon's fork of Android, with the exception of
the Linux Kernel, is closed source. They're not even a very good open source
citizen as I don't think they've contributed anything back to AOSP.

~~~
whoisjuan
That's an unfair statement in the great scheme of open source. When you fork
the Android Open Source Project you only get a backbone version of the OS. You
start at level 0. Google keeps all its custom proprietary and key technologies
closed (rightfully). Amazon is keeping its customization closed as well.

As far as contributing back to the AOSP, that's another area where Google's
iron grip on Android shows. You can report bugs and help to patch things, but
there's no actual way to contribute anything meaningful to the roadmap.

~~~
bitmapbrother
What you fail to realize is that a lot of Android OEM's contribute code back
to AOSP. That is being a good open source citizen. Amazon has yet to
contribute anything.

------
drawkbox
Amazon is a very smart company that invests heavily in research and
development to stay ahead and loved by people.

Amazon will continue to stay ahead of monopoly calls as long as they don't
make moves like this. Monopolies can benefit for some time such as AT&T with
software/labs/modern applications (C++) wiring for telecom, Microsoft with
Windows desktop and getting people on the internet, Apple with the smart
phone, Amazon with online purchasing, Google with search, cable/telco
providers and broadband access etc. But once these companies start pushing too
hard on the monopoly levers, blocking competitors, actively breaking
competitors products/software/standards, blocking out fair markets, then they
start to have problems and maybe will get broken up. AT&T was broken up,
Microsoft got slowed considerably resulting in Apple/Google rising, Amazon and
Google need to keep it fair or else it will get more and more heated.

Moves like blocking competitors or competing products, rather than just making
better products, are troubling and signs that the some people in charge there
are taking cheap ways out to gain short term advantage. Capitalism only works
well when there are fair markets and competition, otherwise it is big fish
oligarchies of companies that works for noone controlling everything.

------
DrScump
The more ruthless strategy would be to continue to _sell_ Nest products but
_ship_ only malfunctioning counterfeits.

~~~
stingrae
That is what they do for Chromecast,
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=chromecast](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_s?k=chromecast)

~~~
codq
Wow, that is unbelievable and embarrassing that they allow that. With Prime
shipping!

~~~
culot
They do manage to keep the counterfeiters off their house brands, so they
definitely _can_ control counterfeits if they like. Too bad they do not care.

~~~
solarkraft
Product quality is horrible on Amazon. AliExpress seems to be as good, if not
better, with more consistent listings and possibly a better search.

~~~
dahdum
I've found AliExpress to be pretty nice, you're skipping an entire layer of
sketchy arbitrage resellers. I've only bought industrial / electronic
components from them there though, so my experience is limited.

------
Lasher
As someone who has been shopping on Amazon since the late 1990s I have
recently stopped buying anything branded on there anyway, or at least anything
branded where I care about receiving real OEM products. Still a fan overall
but one too many knock-off products for me.

After a few years of using Amazon pretty much exclusively for everything then
going back to other sites for branded items, I have been pleasantly surprised
how much better "all the other" online stores have gotten at fast free
shipping and reliable service.

------
dade_
I don't see why this would make anyone thinks this is illegal as it doesn't
stop anyone from buying Google Home products. It isn't as though Best Buy is
selling Amazon products and Apple stopped selling nest in their retail stores
as well.

At this point, Alexa works nicely with my Nest thermostat. If they break that,
then I will be mighty annoyed because I will have to reach into my pocket to
change the temperature instead of just blurting out the desired temperature of
my abode.

~~~
pkaye
Would it be okay for Google to remove Amazon from their search engine given
that nothing stops people from trying Amazon.com on their browser?

~~~
NicoJuicy
To be precise, changing it to aliexpress would be compareable with the
chromecast/nest situation

------
cronjobma
This is usually the beginning of lots of bad things. When a company with such
a monopoly starts banning competitors to promote their own products, it’s
clear that their customers aren’t at the core of their engine. You should
never ‘be evil’ to your own customers for short-term profit gain.

~~~
golem14
Come on! Trade wars are good. Amazon will win. It's easy!

------
josteink
When giants create walled gardens, we all lose.

------
8note
somebody from Amazon want to say where the customer obsession is that in
blocking product ts that have good reviews?

------
Flavius
Hopefully they will sell knockoffs from China.

------
jwtadvice
They also don't/won't sell Chromecast product.

This is the danger of vertical integration. Once upon a time the US government
did built and used antitrust and antimonopoly legislation.

------
ggg9990
The US needs laws and a DOJ that can put an end to this kind of market power
abuse. What Google and Amazon do to each other publicly they do daily to
millions of individuals and small businesses that are too weak to retaliate.

------
kerng
The problem is that these players are just so big, that's why we read about.
The poor little shop down the street that is bullied by Amazon has no way of
voicing their problems. Maybe it's just me, but I have been avoiding making
Amazon the first stop when I buy something, and it's difficult because they
are so omnipresent. But once I bought a painting from China which never
arrived, probably counterfeit and Amazon never reimbursed me. Since then I am
not a big Amazon fan anymore and stories like this make me wonder what options
there are to bring a bit more diversity into this market?

------
ggm
I'm going to repeat the sentiment of a post I made in another place (about
websites sharing PII) -What aspect of trade and commerce regulation is not
being applied here, that we have a tool in the armory for, in the body of the
regulator?

What would you like a competent trade regulator to do here?

I'm naive, but I'd like them to tell amazon to f __k off out of this behaviour
and penalise them significantly. I think either a shop has a giant sign on the
door "we don't sell NEST" or not. Simply not providing it, when in other ways
its in competition with the suppliers of NEST feels like trade discrimination
for predatory outcomes. Supplying competitive items, including forged items
puts you in a very strange place.

Apple stores don't sell windows PCs, this is understood. If Apple established
a general purpose computing outlet, supplied PCs but decided not to stock Dell
or HP (note, not that Dell or HP refused to supply: Apple decided not to
stock) then I'd say the same thing. If Dell or HP didn't stock to Apple
stores, and if Google refuses to stock to Amazon, then the beef is with the
supply side, not the distribution side. Same logic, different direction.

------
blaisio
On the bright side, for people worried about monopolies and corporations
having too much power, this severely hurts Amazon's brand. They really are a
much less useful site when instead of being "the place where you can buy
anything" they are "the place where you can buy Amazon products, and a few
other things too".

------
Molaxx
How is that legal? Microsoft took on antitrust lawsuits for bundling its
browser with its OS. This seems much worse.

------
mankash666
Smacks of monopolistic behavior from Amazon

------
ausjke
Mr. Anti-trust has been waiting for Amazon I believe. These childish moves
will just speed that up.

------
tanilama
Is this legal?

------
moomin
It’s almost as if when you get companies as large as countries, they start
having trade wars.

------
freech
I wonder whether Amazon accounts for this properly. If someone asked them to
remove a competitors products, how much money would they demand? They'd have
to calculate the damage this does their brand. Do they calculate in this case?

------
knodi
This is because Google removing youtube app from Fire devices.

------
jimjimjim
well done everyone. we have made amazon the gatekeeper of the consumer market.
don't make Baron Amazon angry or he will have you run out of town.

------
hessart
I wonder how much damage to Amazon’s bottom line Google could do by simply
suppressing it from its search results.

~~~
chapium
That would be cutting the nose to spite the face.

~~~
kjksf
I assume he was talking about non-paid search results in which case: how so?

It's no like you're going to change your search engine to Bing because Google
stopped showing organic search results for Amazon.

I just searched for e.g. "Acer Predator Helios 300" and Amazon is second non-
paid result.

I would imagine that's the case for a lot of searches and not being in search
results would hurt them a lot.

And to be clear: I think it should be illegal for Google to selectively and
anti-competitively tweak search results just as it should be illegal for
Amazon to selectively and anti-competitively refuse to sell products.

------
nodesocket
I have no problem with this. Free market. If you want Nest products buy them
from the Google Store
([https://store.google.com/category/home_entertainment](https://store.google.com/category/home_entertainment)).
Amazon is not required nor should they be to sell competitors products.

~~~
Eridrus
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean that we as consumers must like
it.

~~~
nodesocket
I'm a consumer as well. I actually just bought a Nest thermostat and the
Google Store experience is just as good as Amazon. Free shipping. I don't get
the complaining.

~~~
dpark
The big problem is the lack of interoperability that this encourages. No
Amazon Prime in Chromecast. No Google Play on Amazon Fire. No integration with
Alexa and Nest. The petty squabbles hurt the customers’ experience.

~~~
lostmsu
Wait, there was Alexa Nest integration. Was it pulled?

~~~
clintonb
Alexa can control Nest, yes: [https://nest.com/support/article/Nest-and-
Amazon-Alexa](https://nest.com/support/article/Nest-and-Amazon-Alexa). That
skill would be hard to get rid of, unless Amazon explicitly forbade access to
Nest APIs.

------
sudouser
ten bucks you will still be able to buy fake nests on amazon

and any fake or pirated app on google play

~~~
bitmapbrother
The fake Nest will do so much more, though. When it's not being used by a
botnet to DDOS sites it's cryptomining Monero in its downtime.

~~~
sudouser
great ideas! laughed so hard woke people nearby

------
gsich
No big loss, as those devices aren't smart to begin with.

------
vondur
It’s almost like they are asking for government regulation.

------
IntronExon
That something of such dubious “value” would be subject to this kind of
competition between giants is shocking to me.

Maybe I’m just a paranoiac, but given the choice of Amazon, or Google having
mics/cameras in my home, I would choose neither. I can’t think of a company I
would trust to do that, and yet even people sensitive to privacy concerns on
one hand seem blinded by the most petty convenience offered by these devices.

 _The stakes are huge. Both Amazon and Google are building out a new voice-
powered operating system that can control everything in your life — from your
lights to your garage door to the music and video you stream._

That’s... terrifying.

~~~
godzillabrennus
You have a voice powered operating system in your pocket with any modern cell
phone. Sure, you can trigger it off using a software switch but do you really
trust that?

Apparently enough people trust it that they keep buying the latest phone
models year after year.

Anyone who is terrified by this technological shift should at least be
cognizant that you are already basically recorded in some way whenever you go
out in public in any major city.

This is just the next shift.

~~~
IntronExon
I can’t control anything beyond my home, but that’s an ancient fact of life. I
can monitor what’s being sent and received by my phone or computers, but Alexa
or whatever Google has?

This is more than the “next shift” and I can feel the water getting too hot
for this frog.

~~~
singularity2001
what is the difference between your computer's https traffic and Alexas? you
can record both and decipher neither (unless you're very clever)

~~~
CaptSpify
The difference is that I have near total control of my computer's https
traffic, whereas I don't have hardy any control over Alexa's.

