
So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery - sedev
http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2014/03/challenges-of-opening-a-brewery-job-advice-beer-industry-collin-mcdonnell-henhouse.html
======
edj
This is so apropos!

Three groups of my friends (6 people, total) are attempting to start
breweries, brewpubs, or cideries.

I have a number of thoughts for these friends. (Advice not totally unsolicited
-- I've been homebrewing for about 17 years.)

\- Brewing a good batch of beer - better than most of the what's sold in
stores - is easy. Almost anyone can do it with their first batch.

\- This tricks people into thinking that brewing is easy. But...

\- Consistency is hard. That recipe that turned out so well the first time? It
might be good the second time, or it might spoil, or it might be too hoppy, or
it might be cloudy, or taste of yeast, and so on. At any rate, it's unlikely
that it will taste exactly the same as it did the first time.

\- Brewing large batches is hard. Even transitioning from 5 gallon to 10
gallon batches requires different equipment. Recipes don't scale in a simple
way. And when you get into backwatering high gravity beers everything becomes
even more complex.

\- Making wine and cider is hard compared to brewing beer. The former two have
fewer ingredients, which, being fruit instead of grain, tend to be less
consistent. Conditioning takes MUCH longer which means feedback and learning
take much longer.

\- And yet, I bet actually making a consistent, high-quality beverage is the
easy part compared to running a profitable brewing business.

\- Brewing is expensive. Startup costs are high. Even an enthusiastic
homebrewer can easily spend thousands. Think $10,000 for a bare-minimum
commercial brewing setup built around e.g. a SABCO Brew Magic.

\- The legal stuff is hard. Licenses, bonds, a legal location -- all that
stuff takes time and money.

\- The food industry is brutal. Combining a brewery and a restaurant seems
like it must tremendously increase the probability of failure.

Anyway, brewing is a fun hobby. But one of those that sort of lulls people
into making hasty business decisions.

~~~
huherto
> Brewing large batches is hard. Even transitioning from 5 gallon to 10 gallon
> batches requires different equipment. Recipes don't scale in a simple way.
> And when you get into backwatering high gravity beers everything becomes
> even more complex.

As an ignorant software engineer. I have to ask this. ¿Can you keep the batch
size constant and increase the number of batches?

~~~
pielud
You could probably do something like that, but it'd be a huge waste of time.
The time to brew a batch is pretty much the same no matter the volume. I.E.
Brewing a 5 gallon batch takes about the same amount of time as brewing 20
gallons, assuming you have the equipment capable of doing that volume.

~~~
latj
I think huherto is suggesting beer concurrency. That is, instead of having a
20 gallon setup, having four 5 gallon setups. It will take longer because you
will have to do whatever mixing,testing, etc four times but if the longest
part of the process is waiting- you win in that aspect.

The question is- would this make it easier to be more consistent?

~~~
huherto
Thanks latj, this is what I was thinking. Big batches may be a good model for
a large brewery but not necessarily for a small one that is growing
organically.

I can imagine several advantages. You can replicate without having to
extrapolate quantities, pressure, etc. You get to run more experiments, I can
envision a supervised machine learning system that learns which parameters
make the best beer. You don't throw out big batches, etc. Sure, it may require
more labor, but you get other advantages.

~~~
latj
How about a coop of home brewers- everyone agrees to brew a certain recipe of
beer that month; All the beer gets blended together and redistributed. What
does that taste like?

I visited a village once that did this with their wine and distilled liquor.

------
silencio
I could almost replace "beer" and "brewery" with "food" and "restaurant" and
feel like it would be talking about the same thing.

My restaurant ends up focusing so much more on keeping up with cleaning, food
safety, and local regulations than actual cooking food it feels almost silly.
And most people only want to hear about food or money (lol, money) when they
ask me about how the restaurant's doing. I hope I don't accidentally convince
someone that they should look into running one.

~~~
chrisgd
Now I really don't know what to say to my brother in law who is opening a
brewery / restaurant...

~~~
smackfu
Yeah, I like brewpubs as a customer, but I don't see what the business model
is, over just running a brewery or a bar. You get the beer at cost, but the
price of a keg of beer is not really a problem most bars feel the need to
improve upon.

~~~
cc439
Brewpubs can skirt around the regulatory insanity that some states impose on
breweries. I'm not sure how close South Carolina is to the norm but you cannot
sell more than 48oz of beer to the public per day and only after a tour (and
only 16oz can be over 8% abv). You have to sell to an independent distributor
who sells to independent (of both distributor and brewery) stores. If you
operate a brewpub you can sell "freely" but only up to 2,000 (IIRC) barrels a
year.

I know several states have tough regulatory environment but I don't know if
they go as far.

~~~
lostlogin
I wonder what defines a brew pub. Could you have a couple under the same roof
owned by the same person? "This tap belongs to pub A, this to pub B..."

~~~
cc439
That could be a loophole, here's the relevant legislation:

SECTION 61-4-1700. Definitions.

For purposes of this article:

(1) "Brewpub" means a tavern, public house, restaurant, or hotel which
produces on the permitted premises a maximum of two thousand barrels a year of
beer for sale on the premises.

(2) "Permitted premises" means those areas normally used by the permittee or
licensee to conduct his business and includes, but is not limited to, the
selling areas, brewing areas, storage areas, food preparation areas, and
parking areas.

(3) "Person" means an individual, partnership, corporation, or other form of
business organization.

HISTORY: 1996 Act No. 415, Section 1.

[http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t61c004.php](http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t61c004.php)

------
subpixel
I actually visited Hill Farmstead Brewery last month in Vermont's Northeast
Kingdom. If you're not aware, they're sort of the Magnolia Cupcakes of
breweries - people drive hours to get there, wait in line for hours, and
generally get very hyped up about the beer.

While I waited over an hour to buy my 2 allowed bottles, I was able to read a
little about the guy who started the brewery. I'm paraphrasing, but he
basically explained in an interview somewhere that once you realize you're not
doing something for fun or for yourself, you come to see other elements about
the work that matter, and that those are what ultimately make it worth while.
(His motivation has a lot to do with maintaining his family connection to the
land he's brewing on, which has been in his family for like 200 years.)

I thought those were pretty wise words for anyone considering a new venture.
Novelty and fun wear off. If you can figure out what about the work really
matters, you'll be less likely to burn out.

FWIW I saw the founder of the brewery, and I can tell you he was not showing
any signs of having a good time or a good day.

~~~
twoodfin
_FWIW I saw the founder of the brewery, and I can tell you he was not showing
any signs of having a good time or a good day._

Eh, Shaun's almost always like that, at least on days the retail shop is open.
Pictures of him actually brewing or hanging out with other brewers or at his
(amazing) festivals confirm that he is definitely doing what he loves.

Hill Farmstead is a very interesting case. Shaun has said many times that
there is an absolute limit on the amount of beer he can reasonably brew on-
site, and that he has no interest in expanding beyond that limit. As a result,
given the quality of his product, he will inevitably be swamped by demand
unless he raises prices, something he has generally been reluctant to do.
Imagine if Napa's highest-rated winery were selling the vast majority of its
juice in $20 bottles.

~~~
snogglethorpe
Hmm, but at least he can reasonably resist pressure to _lower_ prices... :]

[This is not something to be sneezed at... like 75% of the conversation on
U.S. beer websites seems to be complaining about beer prices—which seems a bit
crazy to me, as from my point of view, U.S. craft beer prices are already
extremely low (craft beer prices where I live are probably three times what
they typically are in the U.S.)!]

~~~
epaladin
Got into craft beer in the US and then lived in Japan for a year. Japan taxes
beer based on malt content. There are some really great breweries over there,
but $9 pints (at a brewpub even) add up fast. (If you're ever in Tokyo check
out Baird Beer, they've got a few taprooms now- the one in Harajuku is amazing
for the contrast between the insanity of the street outside and the calm of
the pub. Anyway, big fan of their Barleywine.)

~~~
snogglethorpe
> _the one in Harajuku is amazing for the contrast between the insanity of the
> street outside_

A slight nitpick: the Baird Harajuku Taproom is near Takashita-dori
(presumably the insanity to which you were referring), but its actual location
is on a quiet backstreet about 50m away -- and that 50m makes an incredible
difference... The ambience on the street outside the taproom is amazingly
quiet.

[I make the point because I'm always struck by how amazingly quiet the
location seems, despite the proximity to T.D. It always feels sort of
surreal...]

~~~
snogglethorpe
Note ― should be "Takeshita-dori"... ><

[I guess limited-time editing is better than _no_ editing, but man is it still
annoying...]

------
esw
Thanks for this. This reminds me a lot of an old Slate piece
([http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2005/12/bitt...](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2005/12/bitter_brew.html))
about owning a coffee shop.

------
slg
I am glad the author actually does enjoy his work, but this is just another
reminder that your dream job might not be as dreamy as you initially imagined.
Sometimes the grass is just greener because you haven't looked close enough to
notice all the brown patches.

~~~
lukasm
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Cat...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Cattle_eating_grass_through_barbed_wire_fence.jpg/440px-
Cattle_eating_grass_through_barbed_wire_fence.jpg)

~~~
eru
Does anybody know why the cow's doing that?

~~~
phpnode
because the grass is greener on the other side?

~~~
eru
Perhaps it is. Or perhaps there's more going on with the cow?

------
JasonCEC
For anyone interested in starting a brewery, my startup [1] does Flavor
Profiling and Statistical Quality control for small to medium sized artisan
beer, coffee, and spirit producers.

We use machine learning and data-science to quantify the flavor profile of
products, detect flaws, and pinpoint the sources of batch variation.

[1] www.Gastrograph.com

~~~
contingencies
Looks great but too much subscription money for a startup. I'd suggest per-
test pricing with discounts for repeat business or agreement to be listed in
an "as used by..." page as an alternative sales strategy.

~~~
JasonCEC
Maybe. We've considered lowering prices - but $500 / month is _far_ less than
what any company (startup or not) would need to spend on hiring an employee
with quality control experience. We do far more than most QA/QC teams ever
could... unless they have individuals with an advanced math degree, expansive
analytical chemistry knowledge, and production experience - and paying that
team won't be $500 / month!

~~~
contingencies
That's one way of looking at the market: as an alternative to hiring someone
and getting them access to appropriate lab gear. Another would be looking at
the probably much larger layman's market... if you can get your flavour
profile priced low enough to become normalized as a standard record at some
competitions, for instance, then you may have ten times the market in half the
time.

~~~
JasonCEC
That is very interesting to me... When this first became a business a few
years ago, I had hopped that we could get `laypeople` to review products, and
then use a mass of consumer data to sell our services.

This has not paned-out in practice; doing reviews on our system is not
_difficult_ but it is involved - you have to care about flavor and what you're
tasting to do it.

Also, going Standards/consumer route puts us into direct competition with many
of the trade organizations that our clients belong to, like the SCAA and the
BA - they try to sell their own sensory systems from 'partner companies' (that
then donate money back to the organization...).

I think it is better for us to gain the trust of a set of clients who are
looking for a better way to taste products for quality control (based on
science), and charge them for a service than to gamble on general consumers in
the short term. In the long term.... I would love to have 1M+ random people
using our app to review beer, coffee, and etc.

[Do you still live in Kunming? // I use to live right around KNU!]

~~~
contingencies
Sounds fair enough, I hadn't considered trade associations and existing claws
in the pot. Still, you could try approaching the infinite number of local wine
competitions with freebies for their winners in order to garner discount
promotional coverage.

I live just south of Kunming on Fuxian lake. Kumming aint what it used to be,
but it's still clean and relatively natural down here!

------
azurelogic
Replace all of the brewing talk in the description of cleaning, tedium, and
notetaking with chemistry, and then you will understand why I became a
developer after spending 4 years studying chemistry.

~~~
donretag
My father-in-law, who used to be the brewmaster of one of the biggest
breweries in the world, has a PhD in Chemical Engineering. I'm glad he did not
end up as a developer, although perhaps my wife would understand me more!

------
hessenwolf
So, be a chemist. Fairy muff.

Interestingly, the t-test, probably one of the most relevant pieces of
mathematics in modern science, was invented by Gossett in the Guiness brewery
in Dublin in 1908.

The problem was that for testing the batches, the sample size was too small
for the estimate of the standard deviation to be consistent, so the
distribution was wider than would be expected from a Gaussian normal
distribution. So, the lad used resampling from a bag of a thousand chicken
bones (measuring the lengths) to derive a distribution. Somehow, the
mathematical underpinnings were later defined properly by Fischer.

------
drone
Brewery incubators are coming... Some of them might work out pretty nicely to
help test and get your feet wet with bigger equipment before taking the leap.

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kitcheninc/the-
brewery-...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kitcheninc/the-brewery-
incubator-co-working-brewery-collabora)

[http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociety/2013/02/innovative_cra...](http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociety/2013/02/innovative_craft_brewery_co-
op.php)

~~~
snogglethorpe
How does this compare to normal contract brewing?

There are some (extremely good) "breweries" around here which I'm told are
"recipe only," i.e., the actual physical site/equipment used is that of
another, larger, brewer.

However I'm not sure exactly what that really means... do they typically
really just give the recipe over to the larger brewer and say "make this!" or
is the "originating" brewer more involved in the actual brewing process, just
using the larger brewer's equipment?

~~~
llimllib
I'm not in the industry, but I understand that those are generally called
"contract brewers", and the originator of the beer recipe may be more or less
involved as the contract brewer begins production, but they definitely don't
continue to be unless they find that the product isn't up to snuff.

Again, take that with a lump of salt, I hope somebody who knows more will
chime in.

~~~
snogglethorpe
Right, as far as I understand it, that's a general pattern for breweries
expanding production beyond their current capacity, or to geographically
remote areas.

What I'm talking about seems a little different though: it's very, very, small
craft breweries which don't have any of their own equipment (except presumably
small-batch/homebrew equipment used in creating their recipes in the first
place), and do _all_ their actual production brewing on the premises of
another brewery, usually located in the same city.

Maybe they work the same way, but I can't help but think that the latter type
would be more involved in the process... :]

------
brc
I know someone with a brewery - it's a pretty small operation with a small
bar. It's not a trendy location or operation but he has been going for years.

The biggest problem is governments. Either the local government, which decided
to arbitarily start charging commercial premises 90% of the metered incoming
water as wastewater, on the assumption that 90% of what comes out the tap goes
down the drain. Breweries use a lot of water, so that added costs.

Then the federal government decided that young people were drinking too many
strong pre-mixed drinks (alcopops), so they added a massive alcopops tax (a
70% increase) to try and stop young people drinking (yeah, _as if that was
going to work_ [1]). While the young people switched to spirits, wine and
cider, his business got smashed because one of his big product lines was
ginger beer, and for whatever reason some politician or bureaucrat decided
that ginger beer counted as an alcopop.

Most of us in the software industry don't realise how much freedom we have. We
can start pretty much any type of software company we like, where we like,
when we like. Most of us don't even have to tell a single layer of government
what we are doing, save for reporting the income to the taxman. The horror
stories of random regulation changes on small businesses like breweries and
restaurants is the stuff of nightmares. I mean, imagine if a government
somewhere decided to arbitrarily add a 70% tax to mobile-app sales. Lots of
small developers would go under. But governments routinely do this sort of
thing all the time to lots of other small businesses.

[1] [http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/alcopop-tax-fails-
to-d...](http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/alcopop-tax-fails-to-deter-
teen-binge-drinking-raises-45-billion-in-revenue/story-fneuz92c-1226650824648)

~~~
TheCoelacanth
Alcohol has to be one of the most over-regulated things in existence. It seems
like every state and municipality has it's own laws saying that you can't sell
it at certain times or places, or that you can't drink it in certain places,
or that you have to sell a certain amount of food in addition to it.

------
smackfu
Another factor I didn't see mentioned is that it is very hard to scale up a
brewery. The equipment is a big expensive investment and it makes a certain
amount of beer. If you want to make more than that, you need more equipment.

------
sizzle
I'll leave the brewing to the professionals. I can get Pliny the Elder pretty
easily here in San Diego. Stone Brewery is close by, and always releasing new
and innovative brews.

------
midas007
Have to admit, Sierra Nevada Taproom and Restaurant in Chico is a huge cash
printing press.

Probably mostly for show, but people drop the cash. The place is packed on
weekends, year round.

[http://www.sierranevada.com/brewery/california/taproom](http://www.sierranevada.com/brewery/california/taproom)

------
fitek
If you're interested in building a nanobrewery, we've developed plans and
software for a brewery made out of 3x 55 gallon stainless steel drums at the
openbrewery.org project. The software uses Processing; the hardware is less
prescriptive since a lot of it will depend on what parts you can get your
hands on.

Our goals are to achieve greater consistency and to automate the process as
much as possible, so brewers don't have to sit and watch the beer cooking for
an entire day.

Our nanobrewery is already running for a year or so and there are at least two
more under construction around the world (that I am aware of). So far, the
project comprises just the brewery itself-- no tools for downstream analysis
of the beer, though that is an important future improvement.

Shameless plug, brought to you by one of the project founders :)

------
js2
Beer is so yesterday. The new (old) thing is your own distillery:

[http://www.amazon.com/Kings-County-Distillery-Guide-
Moonshin...](http://www.amazon.com/Kings-County-Distillery-Guide-
Moonshining/dp/1419709909)

(Book is written by a guy who grew up in a dry county and whose father is a
preacher, natch.)

:-)

~~~
pwenzel
Not true, cider is the new deal. ;-) After becoming a homeowner, I throttled
back on my beer brewing hobby and focused on brewing hard cider from my own
fruit.

Part of my stockpile:

[http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2823/10919772826_8b39ab55de.jp...](http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2823/10919772826_8b39ab55de.jpg)

Few things are as satisfying as tapping a homebrew cider that chilled in a
snow drift on your roof.

~~~
mynameishere
Mead will be the next big thing. (It originates from insects. What's not to
love?)

~~~
marvin
Second this. My roommates go to an annual swordfighting festival and always
bring back as much homebrewed mead as they are allowed to buy. It's the nectar
of the gods.

------
contingencies
Working on the winemaking side (with arbitrary fruits) as a side project here
in southwest China. It's an interesting place to work, much different to
recipes like _" pay x to buy y at your local brewing supplier"_ like in the
west. More experimentation!

------
lawncheer
The "lean startup" version of brewing:

[http://www.feaststl.com/dine-out/big-
idea/article_14e48446-4...](http://www.feaststl.com/dine-out/big-
idea/article_14e48446-40b2-11e3-b537-001a4bcf6878.html)

------
mathattack
Brewing (and wine making) seems like the rare field(s) that consumers think
they can do better.

I don't think I can make a better computer than Apple just because I use one.
I don't think I can block better than the offensive lineman on the 49ers, even
if I think he's incompetent. I can't make a car better than GM, even if I
might drive one.

Yet why do so many people think opening a brewery is easy?

Beer Wars is a great documentary on the fight craft brewers have against the
big beer companies. [1] The war is all in distribution.

[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1326194/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1326194/)

~~~
mcdougle
Didn't Ray Kroc say something to the effect of McDonald's product not being
hamburgers -- anyone can make a better hamburger than McDonald's in their
kitchen. McDonald's burgers aren't the best; they're easy to obtain.

Just like Bud Light -- it sucks, but you don't have to spend a whole day
cooking it and then a whole month waiting for it to be ready to drink it.

~~~
mathattack
Consistency too. McD is about process.

------
coldtea
I find such attemps are so shallow. "Hey, this brewery thing is popular,
everybody is opening one. And I like beer. I should open one myself".

How many people have a genuine passion AND business sense for the stuff,
instead of merely going with what other people do and what's considered a hip
and trendy thing to do (with some of them even thinking they won't have to do
much work to run such a business).

It's like when I see tons people attemting a career in designing skateboarding
gear or some such non-industry...

~~~
almondsays
"Hey, this web app thing is popular, everbody is making one. And I like the
web. I should make one myself."

Just some perspective.

~~~
Kliment
Yeah, except with beer you have 2-3 orders of magnitude more starting
expenses.

------
natural219
Fantastic article. I think brewing beer will be the next project on my list.

Sidenote: I do think the original title "So You Think You Want to Open a
Brewery..." would have fit better here.

~~~
coldpie
Homebrewing is lots of fun and not terribly expensive. I highly recommend John
Palmer's book "How to Brew" if you're just starting out. It's a long read, but
you'll have an understanding of the process before you make your first batch.
Then grab a couple of friends and make next Saturday Brew Day.

I found scheduling consistent brew days is the best way to improve your craft.
Don't let it fall by the wayside and make two beers a year or you'll forget
everything and lose interest.

~~~
natural219
Thanks for the advice!

------
percentcer
I never thought I wanted to open a brewery, and now I'm sure of it!

------
cylinder
I think a winery and vineyard sound much more appealing than brewing.

~~~
poulsbohemian
For what it's worth... I live in the heart of Washington's wine country. Every
year there are dozens of new wineries, and the same number that go bankrupt.
Very few people who move here to be a "gentleman farmer" enjoying the imagery
of the harvest find that to be the case - most end up bankrupt. While I am not
in the wine business, it's pretty clear there are a lot of shenanigans that go
on, like buying wholesale wine and putting a nice label on it - like most
businesses, the marketing matters at least as much as product quality.

I make cheese, and have spoken to some of you here about that as well.
Producing commercial dairy products blows away the health and safety
regulations in beer and wine making. Think it is hard putting a fermented
grape in a bottle for sale, try something that comes out of the backend of a
live animal...

~~~
justincormack
"making cheese is farming bacteria" as my (French) book says. Its fun to do,
but I don't have a desire to do it commercially.

~~~
eru
That saying applies to beer and wine as well. (Only that for cheese, you farm
the bacteria on animal products.)

~~~
justincormack
And salami and so on. With cheese it is pretty extreme - you don't even bottle
it so even the outside of it is made form bacteria too...

~~~
eru
Bread's even more extreme: I caught my own wild sourdough a few times. (You
can catch your own wild yeasts for beer too, but that's more hit and miss, I
believe?)

~~~
julian55
I make cider using wild yeast. It's always worked fine so far. I think this is
fairly common with small-scale cider making in the UK. I do add some sulphite
to the juice (amount depends on pH) to discourage the undesirable micro-
organisms. If you want consistency then it's probably not a good technique,
but that's not what I am after.

~~~
justincormack
Yes, I think it is common for cider still. Its entirely doable with wine, but
only high end places tend to, cheap wine, like cheap cheese, is more
industrial...

