
Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record - jimsojim
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21716019-penchant-criminality-electoral-asset-india-worlds-biggest
======
kumarm
The Article doesn't cover basics of Criminality of Indian Politicians.

These are just two example in last week from 1 south Indian state caught on
camera (Because Local media would not cover since pretty much media in state
supports ruling party):

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk)
[1]

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-
tcM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM) [2]

Very rarely criminality of Indian politicians comes out because Media do not
want to cover it. These showed up because someone could record. But in both
cases, elected representatives and their goons are already out of trouble.

India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality.

[1]A journalist being beaten by local representatives brother because he wrote
on their corruption.

[2]Goons of local representative beating a women (1 eyed mind you) because she
didn't agree for their illegal construction in front of her house.

~~~
anondon
The videos you linked were so hard to watch.

> India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality.

It's a little more subtle : well connected people to whatever they want and
get away with no consequences. People who dare to oppose these powerful people
discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the
world including the US.

IMO for all the shit that social networks receive (for good reasons), one of
the side effects is that it's a lot easier to share such gross violations of
law an example of which are the above videos. In a way social networks give
people power.

~~~
aisofteng
>People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of
hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US.

It can be true in the US, but it definitely is not the norm. This statement
rings false. For all the problems the US has, yes including corruption in some
places, it is almost entirely unique in its freedom of speech and its
allowance for political opposition without fear of retribution as a modus
operandi.

~~~
marklgr
> its allowance for political opposition without fear of retribution as a
> modus operandi.

Are we talking of the country of COINTELPRO, that killed civil rights
activists, or obliterated unions and the US socialist party by force and shady
tactics? it's like, you can say what you want, as long as it has zero
consequences -- otherwise, prepare to meet some serious shit.

~~~
strictnein
We destroyed the unions so hard that there are over 7 million government
employees who are members of various unions.

Because when a government really destroys a group they let huge swaths of
their own employees join that group.

~~~
marklgr
No, they make sure that what's left as unions is pretty much harmless.

------
sg47
I have another theory. You don't get votes in India. You buy them. A wannabe
politician needs a lot of money to win an election. Criminals who have made
money through bootlegging or by beating up people have a leg up in this
respect. Once they get to power, they indulge in corruption to pay off the
people who helped them win and to save for the next election. The next
election, they have more money to pay the average voter so his competitor
needs to be an even bigger criminal.

~~~
sonink
How do you buy votes if the ballot is secret ?

Not saying that people don't try, and there is that odd politician who does
come only from money. By and large most chief ministers victory can be
explained not by money, but more by identity/group based politics.

This is pretty much also exactly the same to what happens in the US.

~~~
peteretep

        > How do you buy votes if
        > the ballot is secret?
    

Is this a rhetorical question?

The answer is by distributing 2,000INR notes to people and transporting them
to the polling station, relying on reciprocity and promising more to come if
you get elected.

~~~
sonink
No its not rhetorical and your answer is naive at best.

People in India will take money if you give it to them, but they will vote on
identity only. This is because there is no reciprocity - once the voting is
done the politicians have no incentive to pay them again and they don't. The
only reciprocity that exists, if at all, is along identity and everyone gets
it.

Take a look at any CM in any state of India - their win is largely explained
by identity and not money. The current PM who was two time CM of a state,
doesnt even have a house to his name.

~~~
peteretep

        > People in India will take money
        > if you give it to them, but they
        > will vote on identity only
    

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

    
    
        > This is because there is no reciprocity
    

This is the opposite to what published science suggests, and thus needs
something stronger than "here's what I think should be the case"

~~~
sonink
Thats because that published science is born of a prejudiced mind. I have
spent my entire life in this country and been a part of the political process
in many different ways. Pick any random person from the street in India and he
will tell you as much.

------
abverma
Rampant corruption has turned a lot of people into cynics in India. The phrase
"Kuch nahi ho sakda India da. China dekh lo kithe pahunch gya" (Nothing will
happen in India. See the development in China) gets thrown around a lot in a
conversation.

It isn't a problem that affects a single party, both the ruling BJP and the
Congress have the same issues. The problem with BJP being our Dear Leader
being rather illiterate and surrounded by "Yes Men". The man behind the
demonetization was found out to be an individual with a PhD in Yoga. And of
course, there's 2002.

The Congress being the Congress mired itself with a series of scams in it's
second term, and thus began what Bannon calls the "start of the right-wing
revolt".

A personal anecdote about the Congress: A cousin of mine once decided to run
for the Lok Sabha but quickly changed his mind because he found out the
Congress guy was bribing the poor people (of which there were a lot in his
village) with bottles of Johnie-Walker from the past two elections. And
ofcourse, it was easy for the said Congress individual to do so because the
then Chief Minister was close to Ponty Chadha, the liquor baron with a
monopoly in the state of Punjab, for which the CM went to Dubai unannounced
[1].

You could write a multi-volume encyclopedia on the tales of the corrupt Indian
Politician.

[1][http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050712/main3.htm](http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050712/main3.htm)

~~~
puranjay
This is what makes AAP's victory in Delhi not so surprising. Delhi is far
richer than the rest of India; blatant bribery doesn't work quite as well here
as it would be in another state

------
tn13
The article fails to differentiate between charges and conviction. In India
anyone can get charged for a crime no one ever gets conviction.

As an Indian I think Criminality of Indian Politicians is a non issue. Very
few of the politicians are actual hard criminals. Most face charges that
anyone in important position is likely to face.

Nearly all my politician friends have been in jail and have criminal records
but I can vouch they are pretty good people.

India does not uniform laws and far too many laws to deal with the exactly
same crime.

Examples: 1\. One of my friend has been fighting in court for last __7 years
__over a case registered on him by his political opponent. My friend called
him "asshole". However as per Indian law it is a crime to abuse a person if
the person belongs to specific caste (SC/ST) not just that, the police are
required to register the case even if they think the charges are frivolous or
unsubstantiated. This gentleman has been visiting court every few months. The
charges will be dropped some day as a political bargaining chip.

2\. I barely escaped having a criminal record when I participated in a
political movement. The cops basically filed any random charges against the
protestors including molestation, attempt to murder and what not. I escaped
because I had a fake ID card with fake name on it.

3\. A lot of civil offenses are "crimes" in India.

For example you are CEO of a publishing company that publishes a scholarly
book on world mythologies. Some person files a complain saying you (CEO) has
hurt the sentiments of public which is a criminal offense. India Ebay CEO was
arrested as a criminal becomes someone sold a CD on the website that had porn
clip in it !

4\. Courts that don't work.

Indian courts spend time only on cases that make the judges popular. Such as
cases that involve celebrities or cricket. That is why conviction rates are
next to nothing. One Indian celebrity recently got acquited from tow major
crimes after around 12 years of fight.

5\. Drinking wine or beer might be a crime in some states and in one state
they want to give capital punishment for the same.

6\. Eating beef might be a criminal offense.

------
parennoob
In case anyone wants to see more specific data, there is a site
([http://netafilter.in/](http://netafilter.in/)) that displays all
constituencies, their MPs and the number of cases filed against them on a map.

~~~
shade23
This is really nice. Any sources for the data?

~~~
parennoob
The information icon at the top says the database is from
[http://www.myneta.info/](http://www.myneta.info/), another decent site for
Indian political data.

Myneta.info looks like it is maintained by a group called The Association for
Democratic Reforms ([http://adrindia.org/about-adr/who-we-
are](http://adrindia.org/about-adr/who-we-are)), and based on affidavits
submitted by the candidates themselves (apparently a Supreme Court declaration
that makes it mandatory). This means the actual number of cases could be
different from those declared.

------
RestlessMind
There are some comments in this thread bringing out examples of corruption in
the West. While Western societies are by no means perfect and have their own
warts, they are much better than India when it comes to corruption, effective
judiciary, free press or tolerance for scandals.

People typically vote with their feet. If you have any doubts about which
society treats its citizens better, just look at how many Indians are
clamoring to get out of India and immigrate to USA/Europe and the numbers of
Americans/Europeans wanting to immigrate to India.

~~~
sonink
If people voted with their feet, how do you explain Bush and Trump ?

~~~
RestlessMind
Maybe because nearly 50% of voting population actually preferred Bush/Trump
over the alternative? Especially when federal government has vastly increased
its power (defense, education, environment, taxes, social policies) and when
president has the rare power of nominating supreme court justices who can then
stay forever deciding crucial matters (corporations, abortion, gay marriages,
affirmative action...). In such cases, its better to vote for a bad candidate
on "my side" rather than a better candidate from "other side".

In fewer words - hyper-polarization. Once you win republican or democratic
primary, you are guaranteed to win 45% of the vote.

------
sudshekhar
>Mr Vaishnav dispels the conventional wisdom that crooks win because they can
get voters to focus on caste or some other sectarian allegiance, thus
overlooking their criminality. If anything, the more serious the charge, the
bigger the electoral boost, as politicians well know.

Nothing in the article backs up this statement. I hope when the author
publishes his book, somebody will point out why.

I believe caste and identity politics play a huge role in such elections.
Thefts and crimes are ignored precisely because people think that XYZ
crook(from their caste/community) has the courage to stand up to authority and
will represent them properly.

Different communities promote up their own representatives and as the
elections becomes dirtier, in the end only crooks from various communities
stand up.

Kind of similar to how capitalism forces merchants to sacrifice most skills
not relevant to 'reducing cost/making money', Indian politics does this to our
MPs/constituencies. Money and muscle power become a pre-requisite for being
considered as a possible electoral candidate.

Then again, the advent of social media and the internet has started changing
things (I don't have stats to prove this though). Crimes committed by MPs (or
their families) are being highlighted throughout the country and the guilty
are being shamed. I use the word shamed because I am not too sure what happens
once the media spotlight moves somewhere else. Possibly, they walk free...

------
grandalf
Many US politicians and officials would easily be considered war criminals if
there were any sort of binding international law. Even more would likely be
jailed for activities that are well known if they weren't already powerful.

Once criminal organizations get powerful enough they can start doing extensive
image management and PR, as well as building elaborate headquarters complete
with fancy architecture, columns, etc.

Governments are simply the most successful criminal organizations. We the
people are continually fooled by the grandeur of the columns and the silly
dignity of the titles.

We're also overly grateful for the gifts of patronage they dole out to keep us
at bay such as welfare, medals, etc.

The more pomp and circumstance, the more ritual and solemnity, the bigger the
racket. It should be no surprise that both candidates in the recent US
election still have numerous FBI investigations into their business dealings,
and the majority of Americans considered both to be highly unfit for office.

Our presidential motorcade is a sham... The vehicles are tanks made to look
like limousines, yet we'd look down upon a foreign leader who paraded around
in a tank.

All tyrants attract sycophants, and in our case they make up most of the
political and media elite. The most humiliating display in our nation is the
exceedingly rare occasion when a president condescends to sit for a one-on-one
interview. The softball questions are spoken with a humility (and a
reassurance that there certainly won't be any sort of tough follow-up
question) that should make us all gag.

In the US, there is a steady stream of news stories about corrupt or otherwise
undesirable situations elsewhere in the world.

------
Nano2rad
Indian villages are still tribal. The tribal cheiftains win the elections. As
there is no legitimate methods to be chieftains, the way to be one is to show
power or be a criminal. Now real power is with politician, and crininals
become politicians. There is also corruption. The higher posts are occupied by
castes in higher levels. There has to be a way to create a level playing field
and that is not to stop corruption but force the bureaucrats to take bribes
from all sections of the society. For that you need criminals as leaders. So
OBC, other backward communities (official name) and communities in lower level
elect leaders with criminal background. The communities in the top level have
their members in bureaucracy and they are "influential".

------
poitor
India has one of the largest below poverty line and uneducated population in
the world. Isn't it obvious that you can just win them over giving them a
little money as less as 500 or 1000 Rs which is gonna make their days. I
remember when the voting guys come to my town, the parties generally setup up
a buffet system for lunch and if you had voted for the party you get free
lunch. An then there is giving free gifts like TV's, Phone's and mixers if you
vote for them. Tell me can you challenge a system like this??

~~~
kazagistar
Anonymous voting, so you can just lie about it and get the free gifts anyways?

~~~
MarkMc
Isn't voting in India already anonymous?

I suspect that even with anonymous voting people's psychology will compel them
to vote for the party who gives them a gifts.

------
known
This is why British offered a separate country to
UC/BC/SC/ST/Sikh/Christian/Parsi/Buddhist/Jain communities in 1932
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award)

------
manojlds
Ironically, the photo in the article is of former CM Jayalalitha who passed
away last month. She has pending corruption cases against her. But when she
died, the outpouring of praise from most people, many who were even against
her while she was alive, has been unbelievable.

------
lukepothier
> "One can walk just about the whole way from Mumbai to Kolkata without
> stepping foot outside a constituency whose MP isn’t facing a charge."

So there's a line of clean constituencies from Mumbai to Kolkota? That 'isn't'
should be an 'is'.

------
known
AKA
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)

------
credo
India does have a high level of criminality and corruption in politics, but it
is different from the U.S. in one aspect.

An Indian politician who brags about sexual assault and doesn't even deny
video-taped evidence of the bragging .... would have no chance of being
elected as Prime Minister. As we demonstrated in November, American voters
have a much higher tolerance level when it comes to electing our president.

~~~
silentguy
I beg to differ here. In India, you can be elected as a PM if you have large
social media brigade. Our current PM has charges of rioting against him and he
won by huge margin by using effective PR and his social media brigade.

~~~
pkd
I am not saying he was not indirectly responsible for the riots, but he has
been cleared from those charges.

------
known
Voting in elections is Hegemony, not Democracy in India without
goo.gl/forms/g4fX5CELGg

------
sonink
Article sounds racist, but this is the economist after all.

Here is the thing - If you look at the past 5 Prime Ministers of India and
compare them to the past 5 Presidents of the US, you will find that India more
or less throws up much better candidates than the US for the top spot.

If Indian politicians had such a criminal record, this would be unlikely the
case.

~~~
lovemenot
I cannot imagine why you'd think The Economist is generally a racist
publication. Have you ever read it? Really? I do not get such an impression
from TE at all and I read it often.

As to this article, The Economist is reviewing a book by a third-party. If the
facts are correctly quoted from the book, the book's sources are correct and
the item is newsworthy, I see no problem at all with such a book review.

There need be no racial motivation for pointing out institutional failings in
any country. India is an important country in so many ways, and the readers of
The Economist would surely want to know about politics there.

~~~
sonink
It is racist because the institutional failing it is pointing out is born from
the publications/authors prejudice rather than any objective assessment of
reality.

~~~
lovemenot
Thanks for trying to explain your position. I don't have the facts myself.
Perhaps you could give a specific example of which data in the article were
incorrect. Also, I would be pleased to know how you were able to discern the
motivation behind the supposed mistake(s) made in the article.

------
andrewvijay
I'm an Indian and can verify that. A lot of scumbags keep winning and hold
onto power here usually by hook or crook. In fact even the prime Minister modi
was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when
the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to
the families whose people were killed. The current govt has the largest share
of criminals in power. There are some honest players coming up. We'll see if
they are really honest in a few years.

~~~
alokyadav15
What about 1948,1986,1992,2013... Riots , why always whining about Gujrat or
you think that only in gujrat riots politicians were involved ?

~~~
andrewvijay
They are not the prime ministers now. The context that we are talking here is
about the current govt. If the previous govts had lots of wrong doers then it
doesnt mean the current govt doing the same is okay. Get your priorities
straight.

~~~
rameshdsouza
Using the same argument - we shouldn't discredit those crimes and criminals
just because they are not prime ministers or chief ministers now. Get your
priorities right.

