
Ask HN: Advise for career changer in mid-thirties - roronoa
Hi HN, I would like to ask for your advice. I see a lot of information for younger people but not as much for older career changers. I am a former chemical engineer turned programmer a couple of years ago, currently doing web development full time (Python&#x2F;Django)<p>I have been trying to compensate for my lack of formal training by following the Stanford CS program as many courses are available online. I can’t believe all those excellent courses are available for free (thanks Coursera!). In particular I have been enjoying the lower level stuff compared to my day-to-day job as a web dev. The cryptography, networks, algorithms, FP and compilers courses have all been real eye openers for me (look mom, built a compiler!).<p>Anyway, I don’t have any mentors or the like to bounce my ideas, so that’s why I am posting here. I am thinking about contributing to open source projects to get more experience, and perhaps switching jobs to something related to my new interests?<p>I am also thinking about focusing on newer fields, where you are not expected to have 10 years of experience to get in the door. List includes: security (not easy, but very interested, I think I can leverage my web dev background, probably will start the Matasano challenges soon), SDN, cryptocurrencies…got to focus…but definitely not chasing the next web framework…<p>Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
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oracuk
I would strongly recommend reading Clay Christensen's book How will you
measure your life? He discusses a general approach to working out what you
want to do with your life without telling you what he thinks you should do.

[http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Will-Measure-Your-
Life/dp/006220...](http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Will-Measure-Your-
Life/dp/0062206192/ref=tmm_pap_title_0)

~~~
roronoa
Thanks, will check it out. Had no idea that the author of the Innovator's
dilemma had a book like this...

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akg_67
As a former Chemical Engineer who switch from Petrochemical to Technology over
a decade ago in mid-30s, a few suggestions:

1\. Get a MS in CS (part-time) degree. It will go a long way in solidifying
your role in technology industry specially if you want to be in development
and as individual contributor.

2\. You have another 15 years of runway before you are considered as "over-
the-hill" if you remain in development and as individual contributor. Focus on
maximizing income, maximizing savings, building "expertise" that you can later
leverage as consultant, building persona, and building "revenue generating"
side projects.

3\. Don't chase the next "fad" instead focus on an established and growing
domain such as data science, security etc. which you expect to be around with
demand for next couple of decades. Think of in terms of what is the outlook
for next 20 years instead of whether entry requires 10 years experience. Pick
one and stick with it for next 10 years at least.

4\. Be visible in the domain you chose. For example, through conferences,
books, articles, blogs, open source contributions, and discussion lists.

~~~
roronoa
Thanks for the good advice, especially #2, I need to start seriously working
on the income/savings side. There's food on the table for the family, but need
to save more for these 15 years for sure...

I looked into doing an MS, but I already have one (obviously not in CS) and
with all the information and tools freely available now...I am leaning towards
building stuff and using it as leverage for #4.

I am after the skills more than after the degree, I can move much faster that
way. If a field really needs the degree I will try another one, this strategy
worked with web development, so I will try that first and see.

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loumf
I used to lead development in an image processing company. I can tell you that
anyone with interest and skills in low-level programming is hard to come by,
so when we found it, we were interested.

From Matasano's careers page, I understand that they feel the same way about
crypto. Are you in one of NYC, SF, or Chicago -- if so, I would just apply
there.

~~~
roronoa
I am in Australia...so no Matasano for me.

Honestly, I had been thinking about getting a little more experience before
applying to companies like that, but you have a good point.

~~~
loumf
Use interviews to find your weak points and get practice. You don't want to
come across your perfect job and have that be your first interview.

For my part, when I look at low-level programmers, I really just want to make
sure they have a handle on pointers and the allocator, stack vs. heap,
strategies for making that understandable (RAII in C++ or reference counting
for example), how to debug access violation (and what it really means). Most
everything else can be taught.

Also, for crypto, there are lots of entry-points for web developers -- web
penetration is a big part of it.

~~~
roronoa
Good tips, thanks. I haven't really interviewed in a while.

I am looking at pentesting as a potential next step. Based on my initial
research it seems doable and might lead to good opportunities down the road...

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alexjh
I am in somewhat of the same boat, being an embedded developer wanting to get
into cloud computing / web development.

I've had lots of callbacks and a few interviews, but no big breaks so far.
It's been pretty tough on my ego.

My only advice is to stick with it, as when you do find a place that's willing
to look for someone with interests and drive rather than if they're used the
latest toolkit, you'll probably find that they have other positive qualities
as well. At least, that's what I've been telling myself.

~~~
roronoa
Good points, it definitely took a lot of effort to switch into web
development.

There is a lot of good information here in HN for web/cloud stuff, that's how
I started in web development (and doing all courses/projects I could get my
hands on)

After that, I started doing freelance work on Elance, for next to nothing
initially but it picked up really fast.

For cloud/web development there are a lot of meetups depending on where you
are as well.

If you have some questions about the web side of it you can contact me on the
email in the HN profile...

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JSeymourATL
Local Meetups would be an ideal place to network with others in this field,
chances are-- they would know of potential job openings >
[http://www.meetup.com/OWASP-Sydney-Web-Application-
Security-...](http://www.meetup.com/OWASP-Sydney-Web-Application-Security-
Group/)

Also, [http://www.meetup.com/Sydney-Information-Security-
Profession...](http://www.meetup.com/Sydney-Information-Security-
Professionals/)

~~~
roronoa
Yes, I will be attending all meetups I can find on security, but haven't found
many options here in Melbourne (those two are in Sydney). Here I've found a
local OWASP and Ruxcon, but they are not that frequent.

This is very different from the web development world, where you can find
dozens of relevant meetups every month. I guess that's part of learning a new
area, perhaps security people use a different channel to connect, we'll see...

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logn
I just wanted to add that with your background you might consider working with
GE and their new cloud/Internet tech:
[http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527381/ges-1-billion-
so...](http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527381/ges-1-billion-software-
bet/)

Also, SAP is huge in the chemical industry.

