

Bitcoin Black Friday: Why Namecheap is Participating - ted0
http://community.namecheap.com/blog/2013/11/25/bitcoin-black-friday/

======
nicpottier
I've bought a few different domains on Namecheap using BTC, the first time
just after they started supporting it. Back then their implementation (or
their provider's) was a bit broken, I had to wait a few hours for enough
confirmations before I could spend the money.

They have since changed that so payment is instant (the effort required to
double spend a $15 domain would be far more expensive than the benefit). The
experience is awesome I must say. I just love being able to whip out my phone,
scan a QR code on the screen and confirm the purchase and have it instantly go
through.

Much, much better than having to pull out my credit card, type in 16 numbers,
make sure I use the right zip, then remember what crazy authorized by
mastercard password I used. Especially for digital goods, not having to do all
the address verification etc.., sure makes the transaction nicer.

I doubt they gain a whole lot from using BTC (though I think there is real
potential in developing countries), but hats off to them for supporting it
anyways. They were my registrar of choice before and this only strengthened
that.

~~~
nikolak
>Much, much better than having to pull out my credit card, type in 16 numbers,
make sure I use the right zip, then remember what crazy authorized by
mastercard password I used. Especially for digital goods, not having to do all
the address verification etc.., sure makes the transaction nicer.

IMHO you are heavily exaggerating how complicated it is to use CC and/or other
payment options and how easy it is to use btc.

I select paypal, which already has me logged in to my account (or lastpass
automatically logs me in), click "Pay Now". Instantly done.

Same goes for google wallet and similar services. Lastpass even has my CC info
which I can use to fill out forms if I don't have an account. Even without
lastpass I know my CC number, and I never have to make sure I use the right
zip (how complicated is that to remember, seriously?)

It's much easier than having to pull out my phone (which is god knows where),
open app, enter PIN (because security...), scan QR code from the screen and
pay.

Or log into web wallet like blockchain.info by entering wallet ID, password
and 2FA code,copy/paste bitcoin address somewhere and send money to it and if
I get one letter/character wrong the money is forever gone because f __k
chargebacks, right?

(Did I chose one of the more complicated scenarios? Yes, just like OP did in
parent comment for CC payments)

It's good that they offer multiple payment options, but comments which
highlight best case scenario when using bitcoin and worst case scenario(in
terms of how easy it is) when using CCs/PP/etc are really annoying.

>though I think there is real potential in developing countries

I bet you that it's insanely easier to get CC than bitcoin in a lot of
"developing countries", and average people from developing countries, which I
assume have lower than most income, should really avoid bitcoin due to the
price fluctuation. In theory it's great, in practice... not so much.

~~~
nicpottier
Agree that Paypal is pretty darn quick. I personally have issues with zip
codes because I live abroad and always forget which zip code my credit card is
on, but I agree that isn't typical.

The advantage is clearest when it is your first transaction, so not when using
PayPal or Google Wallet. Because I live abroad (Rwanda) I have more hassle
with credit cards than you might, specifically they are always getting flagged
for fraud because I'm not where they expect. Yes, this isn't an issue if you
live in the states at a permanent address.

> I bet you that it's insanely easier to get CC than bitcoin in a lot of
> "developing countries", and average people from developing countries, which
> I assume have lower than most income, should really avoid bitcoin due to the
> price fluctuation. In theory it's great, in practice... not so much.

Not sure why you are using quotes, but you are wrong on this one, at least in
East Africa where I live. Getting a credit card is pretty annoying and
expensive in Rwanda. The vast majority of people do not have bank accounts,
much less credit.

I wouldn't suggest Bitcoin as a store of value, but I do think there is
potential as a form of payment in these markets. IE, buying $15 of bitcoins
(which yes, can be had in various ways here) to register the domain and
spending it the same day. That is indeed easier than getting a credit card
here.

~~~
nikolak
>I have more hassle with credit cards than you might, specifically they are
always getting flagged for fraud because I'm not where they expect. Yes, this
isn't an issue if you live in the states at a permanent address.

I have lived, well more of a stayed for few months than lived for longer
period of time, in various countries in EU and I only had one time paypal
block my payment with credit card issued in Bosnia. That was when I installed
new OS(W8), different browser(trying out FF) and different country(Italy) - it
made complete sense to block the purchase. And that was resolved in about 15
minutes after I contacted their support.

>Not sure why you are using quotes

I was quoting the scenario you named where bitcoin has advantages. I probably
shouldn't have used quotes though...

>Getting a credit card is pretty annoying and expensive in Rwanda.

I don't know about Rwanda, but in most countries (even the developing ones)
you do have access to CC. I'm pretty sure that everyone who can afford PC and
internet access can also afford CC.

Of course there are exceptions, but those exceptions aren't really suitable
for bitcoin either because it would be more complicated than just using cash -
because you need phone or PC to make (normal) transaction.

>The vast majority of people do not have bank accounts, much less credit.

So how do you buy bitcoins? In person transactions? Isn't it worth it then,
for someone who makes online payments frequently, to go through annoying
process of getting the CC instead of finding people who are willing to sell
bitcoins? Or go to a bank and make a wire transfer or WU transfer (which is, I
assume, more expensive for large quantity of transfers than paying for CC)?

------
ericmsimons
I'm aware that bitcoin will have trouble succeeding if people don't start
using it for normal transactions, but I wouldn't spend any bitcoins right now
due to the price volatility. That $10 I use to buy a domain name could turn
into $100, or maybe even $1000 dollars at some point.

~~~
patio11
That's the sunk cost fallacy talking. If you spend $10 on a domain name, you
have $10 less with which to buy exposure to Google shares, bitcoins, yen,
tulip bulbs, or Magic the Gathering cards. This is true regardless of how you
decide to settle the transaction.

There are variants of your complaint which are much more dangerous to bitcoin.
For example, suppose I hold no bitcoins and wish to either purchase or sell a
domain name. Should I effect the transaction in dollars, or should I use
something a little less boring, like Google shares, tulip bulbs, Magic the
Gathering cards, or bitcoin? Well, most people wishing to buy domain names or
sell domain names have access to dollars very quickly, but getting into or out
of fractional alpha Black Lotuses depository certificates (FABLDC) takes a
roundtrip of a few days and requires you to go either long or short FABLDC
depending on whether you're buying or selling the domain name. You might,
sensibly, not want to be either long or short FABLDC just to sell domain
names, because a) price volatility, b) transaction costs (not just the vig
you're charged when going to/from FABLDC by the various FABLDC exchanges but
also the overhead of installing FABLDC payment code, explain FABLDC to your
accountant, and self-insure for the risk that your FABLDC are stolen from the
technology company you trust to manage them for you), and c) why worry about
FABLDC in a world where money exists. (In a world where money didn't exist,
FABLDC would be, quite literally, one of the most impressive achievements
ever.)

n.b. I apologize to techies of my acquaintance who might assume, by
construction, that I am comparing bitcoin to fractional Black Lotus depository
certificates. Sorry for the implication -- it's mostly an extended rhetorical
device. Like you, I also believe that alpha Black Lotuses are worth more than
nothing.

[edit: Ah fudge, someone beat me to this metaphor on HN:
[http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5487050](http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5487050)
]

~~~
melvinmt
> That's the sunk cost fallacy talking.

There is no sunk cost for a cost that hasn't been made yet (buying the
domain). If you're referring to the "cost" of buying bitcoin then that isn't a
sunk cost either (actually no cost at all since it's an expense for a semi-
liquid asset that you still possess). So the parent is right to take
opportunity costs into account, especially in case of deflationary currency.

~~~
cjy
I believe patio11's point is that the opportunity cost of a domain name is the
same regardless of which currency you use to buy it. If you use Bitcoins, you
have less Bitcoins. If you use dollars, you have less dollars to convert into
Bitcoins if you think they will appreciate. Your net position in Bitcoins need
not be affected by your choice of currency for this particular transaction.

~~~
seliopou
I think that's right. But then, if you don't want your bitcoin position to
change, and you have no need for its other features in this transaction, then
why use bitcoin? The OP's point stands.

------
ryan_j_naughton
One of the other participants, a VPN provider, lists your new IP and implies
it is from Switzerland.

[https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/bitcoin-
friday-2...](https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/pages/bitcoin-friday-2013)

While the majority of sites list that IP as swiss. Some list is as Iranian:

[http://www.lookip.net/ip/31.7.56.170](http://www.lookip.net/ip/31.7.56.170)

If it actually were Iranian, then paying in bitcoins would be an effective way
around the sanctions. If only Iran were more tech savy, then they could cater
to the bitcoin early adopters and provide VPS, domain services, and the like.

~~~
sleepyhead
Wait, let me get this straight. So in Iran where most people are tech savy
enough to use external VPN or proxy services to bypass the government firewall
you suggest that they offer VPS and domain services to anonymous bitcoin
users.

------
softworks
It's awesome that they are accepting bitcoins BUT I wouldn't pay with
bitcoins. Why? Well last week I bought some bitcoins through coinbase. The
rate I paid would have be $65 for .1 BTC. Coin base takes 4 days to process
your order. (I know right can you believe it?) but by the time I got the BTC
credited to my account (yesterday) .1 BTC = $85. So the cool thing is I made
$20 for nothing for each .1 BTC so why would I let some COMPANY make that
instead of me?

I'll be happy to spend bitcoins after six months of small price variation
(which I bet is a year after they run out of new coins) but until then they
are staying air gapped on my rasb-py SD card.

------
msjoinder
I used Namecheap's Bitcoin option to purchase a domain. The instructions were
straightforward, and after your transaction is approved by the network your
balance will appear on their site.

Why did I use Bitcoin? Partly as an experiment and partly to avoid questions
at work, I registered [http://SecureDropDemo.org](http://SecureDropDemo.org)
under a pseudonym. It's a demo of what you see if you leak documents through
the SecureDrop whistleblowing platform, usually only accessible over Tor.

------
clarky07
So, I think bitcoin sort of shot itself in the foot with the low number of
total bitcoins. I think if the actual $ value per bitcoin was more in line
with the dollar, people would be more willing to spend them. Yes, you can
spend fractions of bitcoins, but for instance here namecheap wants at least .1
bitcoins deposited. Currently, that's what, $80? why do I want to give them
$80 when all I really want is 1 $10 domain? How about a 100/1 split :-)

~~~
nearengine
> why do I want to give them $80 when all I really want is 1 $10 domain?

To qualify for the promo? They don't enforce a minimum purchase for BTC... I
have bought several individual domains from them in BTC.

What is the point of a 100/1 split? Moving the decimals over is completely
arbitrary, since you'd just have 6 decimal places at the end instead of 8.

~~~
prawn
I think a split would motivate speculators currently mentally deterred from
the idea that this virtual thing is "so expensive". They'd rather own 60 coins
than 0.6 of a coin.

Here's this virtual coin that a low level speculator can't even buy a full
instance of. That has to put off a few people.

~~~
swswsw
To achieve similar effect, some people are proposing changing the default unit
to mBTC, uBTC, or satoshi. While it is not splitting, it should have similar
effect. Instead of saying they own 0.6 BTC, they'll say they own 600 mBTC.

~~~
prawn
This is what I had in mind. Interesting to note that it's getting suggested
already.

------
iand
Great that they are supporting bitcoin but encouraging people to deposit coins
to build a balance at namecheap is the wrong way to go about it. Bitcoin's
sweet spot is in making payments trivial, no need for a balance held on their
servers.

If you want to use bitcoin, you cannot trust third parties to hold your coins
for you.

~~~
csomar
They do have deposits for USD too. And I like this feature. I have a small
deposit with namecheap (around $100) and it's good if I want to register my
next domain instead of going through the CC transaction thing.

~~~
iand
Deposits for USD are fine. If that gets stolen then their insurers and their
bank's insurers will rectify the situation. Perhaps namecheap are offering the
same protections for bitcoin deposits, I haven't looked at their TOS.

------
fat0wl
man, can't wait for the headlines about "bitcoin kwanzaa"

