

Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” released - dzejkej
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1889

======
acabal
The Mint team deserves big kudos for striving to maintain a Gnome-panel-like
desktop experience. IMO both Gnome-shell and Unity are arrogant usability
nightmares; thankfully the Mint team is still keeping traditional usability
alive in the Gnome environment.

~~~
bergie
The bigger point here appears to be the extensibility of GNOME shell. If I
read the announcement right, the Mint desktop is GNOME3, but using extensions
to create a more GNOME2-like experience.

The JavaScript environment GNOME3 was written in could lead to lots of UX
experimentation like this, at least once it has better documentation.

------
vectorpush
I run Ubuntu 10.10 as my main OS and it screams. I Installed Mint 12 on a test
partition and it is a significant slow down, particularly regarding all things
UI. Ubuntu puts out a pretty steady 50fps with translucent desktop cube in
1920x1200, Mint 12 can barley transition between workspaces without a choppy
slow down. 5-10 second lock up whenever I use ctr+alt+T. Window color
inversion (and apparently most of compiz) is broken. Installing nvidia post
release caused Gnome to become totally inoperable, I had to boot with Gnome-
No-Effects option. I prefer Mint's Gnome 3 to Ubuntu's Unity, but speaking
practically, staying with 10.10 is my only true option. I am disappointed.

~~~
lhnn
You're comparing apples to oranges, kind of. What you're saying isn't
necessarily reflective of Mint 12; it could just as well be Ubuntu 11.10.

~~~
vectorpush
I should have mentioned that I've tried Ubuntu 11.10 on the same machine and
noticed similar UI performance problems compared to Ubuntu 10.10 (as well as a
broken compiz).

Yes, some of this could be attributed to Ubuntu 11.10, but the comparison is
still valid since both are competing for me as a user. If the Mint team finds
it necessarily to subsume Ubuntu then they must be prepared to accept the
problems that are inherited as a result.

~~~
mixmastamyk
I'm on 11.04 with gnome-classic and working well. The key is to go back to the
previous releases compiz via ppa.

~~~
jholman
Could you write a little more about this, please?

~~~
acabal
[http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/how-to-downgrade-to-
compiz-08...](http://www.webupd8.org/2011/05/how-to-downgrade-to-
compiz-086-in.html)

Every version of Compiz newer than the one in this PPA gives me endless
problems. If you're still on 11.04 like me (I downgraded after upgrading to
11.10), this PPA is a must.

------
ilaksh
They made DuckDuckGo a partner. I think that means they will have at least
little bit of money.

I also think this could be a pretty big blow to Google because I just tried
DuckDuckGo and it is working really well. I think I am going to try to switch
over. Giant companies like Google make me uncomfortable.

~~~
dchest
Be careful with letting others control what you do on the Web.

 _Our goal is to give users a good search experience while funding ourselves
by receiving a share of this income. Search engines who do not share the
income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their
ads blocked._

...

 _It won’t only be down to donations and sponsorships anymore, your activity
on the web, every search query you make and product you buy will help fund our
project._

<http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851>

------
resnamen
The push to Unity made me try alternate window managers. I've ended up
sticking with Awesome, which is a pretty sweet tiling window manager. More
minimalistic than it needs to be, but still, the core functionality is great.
I have multiple workspaces with different tiling schemes for different tasks -
one for general purpose, one for terminal hacking (spiralling terminal
windows), one for bug fixing (side by side windows w/bug tracker & Emacs), and
one for prolonged development (full screen Emacs with a little terminal for
building)

~~~
duncanbojangles
When Ubuntu moved to Gnome3/Unity, I did the same. I tried Kubuntu, but found
KDE far too different from what I remember back in the KDE3 days to be
comfortable with. Then I settled on Xubuntu, which gave me Gnome2 familiarity
with XFCE.

Then, I installed Bluetile (<http://bluetile.org/>) which is a tiling window
manager that functions well in desktop environments. It lets me use several
different tiling layouts and different modes including tiling, full screen,
and floating. Everything can be done with the keyboard or the mouse (there's a
narrow pane on the side of the screen with all the functions available as
buttons). I've still got window dragging, resizing with the mouse, minimize,
maximize, etc. buttons, and a host of new features to play with. I find
Bluetile to be the best of both worlds for me, and not much of a compromise at
that.

~~~
resnamen
I'll try this, thanks.

------
ozgurc
I had great hopes for this release. The fglrx drivers are fething up the
"shiny" gnome 3 desktop environment, not to mention I haven't seen anything
great about it either -which I am coming to that shortly. MATE is... same as
gnome3, I haven't seen anything special about it either. As for gnome 2, why I
cannot add widgets to taskbars blows my mind...

As far as I can see, and ironically, these new releases have less usability
than their older and "geekier" versions. I mean back in linux mint 9 I could
find compiz settings in 2 clicks. Now I cannot even see a compiz settings
button anywhere. I mean, what the hell was wrong with my rotating cube
desktop? Sure, it wasn't breaking any "productivity increase" reports but it
made me happy to work with my linux box, not to mention all of the mac & win
people looking with envy to these effects which my pieceashit netbook can pull
off while their overpowered books can't.

Two popular distros (I mean ubuntu and linux mint currently) had created an
end goal it seems: "We want to be the mac of the linux world!". In the old
days it was "we want to be the windows of the linux world" and this decision
killed kde4. But the correct direction is to be an unique experience. Compiz
did that, and as far as I can see none of the big mothers of the software
world (yes I am looking at you m$ and apple) has a similar software to that!

TL;DR:Don't macify yourself.

------
moondowner
This may be the first time I'd want to try a non-KDE desktop. Excellent job
Mint team!

~~~
pbhjpbhj
OT: Didn't he KDE4 release make you want to try something else?

Made me try a switch to Gnome, wasn't good for me though.

KDE4 now is great IMO, still a few things I don't like but really good, but
then ... sheesh!

------
niels_olson
Just installed Linux Mint Debian Edition. I'm conflicted. It seems nice, but a
number of things don't work, the biggest being the nvidia drivers. Turned a
bunch of old stuff into a standing dual-screen multimedia center in the
garage, so plenty of room for fun and education, not sure I'd switch to it
full time.

~~~
trafficlight
The ATI drivers don't work all that great either. The post-release drivers
won't install at all. The other one installs, but it's really glitchy.

~~~
ljfoy
I can confirm. They are _very_ glitchy for me too.

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craftsman
I'm switching my Linux box and a friend's machine to Linux Mint (from Ubuntu),
and was going to use v11. I want a simple desktop and something solid that
isn't going to be buggy or difficult to setup. I basically use the terminal,
emacs, Ruby, and a browser (Chrome).

Should I stick with v11 or go ahead and install v12 now? Would it be better to
wait a while to let any bugs shake out, or should 12 be pretty solid now?

~~~
oinksoft
No problems here using plain ol' debian on my laptop. Stable and fast.

~~~
haakon
Huh, that wasn't the question at all.

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methane
Is it better than Ubuntu? Can I have a few workspaces? I think to leave Ubuntu
as it became slow for me and Unity is really not cool at all. What do you
think?

P.S. Can I transfer all my files from Ubuntu to Mint easily?

~~~
thekevan
>Is it better than Ubuntu?

Is Coke better than Pepsi? It boils down more to personal preference. Which
one do you like more?

>Unity is really not cool at all.

I use Ubuntu without Unity. Google "remove unity" and follow instructions for
whatever version you are using.

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jiggy2011
Just tried this in a VM , Mint's interpretation of Gnome3 is better than
Ubuntu's at least. No way to add additional panels though (afaik) which is a
major bummer.

------
akarambir
installed Mint 12(lisa) on a virtual machine but some things are missing. I've
been thinking of abandoning Ubuntu for Mint. Will wait for some more time.

~~~
ExpiredLink
Err, Mint is Ubuntu(-based).

------
scriptproof
I am not convinced by their "Fresh Upgrade" that looks like a fresh install!
Ideally we should be able to upgrade automatically like Chrome or Windows or
Wordpress. The future of Linux is here.

~~~
fl3tch
With a clean install, there's less chance of an incident, and if you put /home
on a separate partition, you don't have to back up your data (although you
should, anyway). If you installed extra packages from the repos, you can get
them back with:

    
    
      dpkg --get-selections > packages.txt
    

After reinstalling, do

    
    
      dpkg --set-selections < packages.txt
      sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade
    

As for automatic upgrades, that goes against the Linux / free software
attitude that the user should be in control of her computer and know what it's
doing. I think that's why there's no GUI option for automatic upgrades
although unattended-upgrades does exist.

~~~
scriptproof
Some kind of service pack to update the software would be nice. But if
Wordpress is automatic when you choose to update, you are not obliged to
update, there is nothing against free software here!

------
adabsurdo
honest question: why are so many people hating on unity? is it the launcher
bar?

~~~
silon4
For me, broken Alt+Tab that switches applications instead of windows is a non-
starter. And the top application menu bar.

The rest is OK and I can learn/adapt.

~~~
keithpeter
For me its the menu bar on the top of the screen except for libreoffice. On a
1920 by 1080 its a bit of a trek to the top of the screen from a small Gedit
window.

The rest I can deal with, I tend toward 'end user' tasks plus a couple of ssh
sessions, and about 10 applications over four virtual desktops.

Hibernate works so I can keep the setup between sessions.

