
Ask HN: What benefits can I provide to improve employee’s sleeping habits? - jackcodes
I’ve had a bit of time to reflect on the industry recently, and this has nicely coincided with being in the running for a leadership position at a company bigger than I would have expected.<p>Part of my job role will be to help develop employee benefits packages and I’d like to make sure that quality of sleep is high up on that list. (Why aren’t more companies prioritising this?)<p>There are some obvious ones I can think of;<p>- Yearly bedding allowance<p>- Curtains&#x2F;shade allowance<p>- Sleep cycle app subscriptions<p>Alongside ‘softer’ workflow choices;<p>- Ensuring no standard work emails&#x2F;slack sent after 8pm. Would like to go further with this, but it’ll be in a developing economy so expectations will be less favourable. We’re not yet France.<p>For what it’s worth, I’d also appreciate validation (or dissent) to the idea in general. It’s not something I’ve heard of happening anywhere and having not been through a typical path to leadership I might just be missing something obvious on why this isn’t standard.
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ThrowawayR2
Assuming you're in the software industry or some other technical profession,
provide a nap room at the office, at least one per 50 people. If you don't
like the term, call it a wellness room. Design it properly (ability to dim or
turn off lights, away from heavily trafficked areas and other noise sources,
etc.) Discourage your staff and management from penalizing or gossiping about
people who use it.

Employees who had a bad night of sleep, employees with newborns that kept them
up at night, employees with migraines or are just feeling ill, employees with
sleep disorders (increasingly common), etc. will thank you and the company
will be compensated by productivity recovered from these people not being
tired. It's not exactly a radical or untested idea either; a quick googling
for "nap room at office" finds plenty of companies that implement this
benefit, e.g.: [https://blog.kickresume.com/2018/09/10/these-7-companies-
enc...](https://blog.kickresume.com/2018/09/10/these-7-companies-encourage-
sleeping-on-the-job-but-why/)

~~~
sethammons
Wellness room for migraines. Mind blown. That would be so helpful when I've
gotten them at work (fortunately, a very minor occurrence for me).

~~~
mathieuh
I get migraines when I have the sun on my head and bright lights around and
where I work has recently moved offices. Now next to a river in an office
seemingly made entirely of glass. It’s impossible to see anything so now
everyone just shuts the blinds.

I now spend about an hour a week with a crazy swirly pattern obscuring most of
my vision. A dark room where I could sit and recover when this happens would
be incredibly helpful.

The architect seems to have tried to create an Ikea showroom rather than an
office where people will be staring at screens all day.

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gshdg
Reasonable expectations for hours worked. Flexible work hours.

Develop good relationships with people. Talk to them about what interferes
with getting a good nights sleep. It’ll be different for everyone (screen
time, family commitments, partying, stress-induced insomnia, long commutes,
etc.) Figure out ways to alleviate the impact of each one without asking
people to give up things they value.

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DoreenMichele
Maybe deemphasize free coffee at work, or at least limit it to mornings.
Caffeine dependency can be a vicious cycle that interferes with sleep and that
sleep deprived people use as a crutch.

(I'm caffeine dependent because it helps with respiratory problems. But it's
pretty well established this contributes to sleep issues and is a hallmark of
a workaholic culture that respects people for pulling all nighters and the
like.)

Give an adequately long lunch.

I used to nap in my car sometimes at my corporate job. But you can't do that
if there's no time available in your schedule.

Do your best to not impose sudden and unnecessary shift changes for bullshit
reasons.

My corporate job would have everyone come in early the Wednesday before
Thanksgiving -- a major US holiday -- so they could close down early. I worked
the evening shift normally from 3pm to 11pm and had to be in at like 6am to
noon that day. I didn't have enough seniority to blow it off by scheduling it
as time off.

They could have found some other way to handle that. I absolutely hated having
a gun to my head in that way. It was awful.

I feel like giving benefits designed to dictate sleep hygiene is a bit
draconian, but you can certainly work on staying the hell out of their way if
good sleep habits is a thing they value.

Young, healthy people often don't care and don't really need to. But if
there's a baby at home, if they are older or have health issues, they will
appreciate you getting your boot off their neck and staying out of their way
in this regard.

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borplk
Things like app subscriptions and so on are just distracting gimmicks that
companies provide to tick the box without taking the real actions that takes
guts to take.

\- Pay them good money, they are adults, this replaces all your "allowances"

\- Give them flexible work hours

\- Ensure no work, sms, email, slack, etc is expected implicitly or explicitly
after work hours

None of this is hard except companies don't genuinely want to commit to these
benefits. They want the benefit to come to them for free. So instead they go
chasing gimmicks.

~~~
jackcodes
I wouldn't have an issue committing to those benefits you've listed. Agreed,
app is a gimmick although I'm not too sure the other two are quite as far into
the gimmick category.

It seems like you've taken it as either/or rather than 'and'. I want to offer
all of the above things AND offer any specific benefits that also offer sleep
enhancement.

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woolybully
Good on you for considering this. I had one job where the company owner loved
his naps, so napping was tolerated at the company. Half the people would have
a 30 minute nap after lunch. Heaven! Made the afternoons so much more
pleasant, and more productive. I'd just set my watch alarm and put my head on
my desk (with proper drool precautions).

~~~
mvind
Did you work in an open office?

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mdorazio
I like your intentions here, but sleep is one of those things that I don't
think an employer is really going to make much of an impact on. The biggest
thing you could probably do is push for later morning start times and more
remote work so employees can sleep in longer. Getting people to bed at more
reasonable times and eschewing quality of sleep impactors (blue light, eating
late, noise, etc.) often comes down to lifestyle choices and living conditions
pretty far outside work.

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digitalutopia
Many people have never received any sort of education or training on the
importance of sleep habits in person. It’s easy to disregard an article. I’d
look into hiring a sleep specialist to do a QA session with your company, and
also consult you on the benefits question.

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sevilo
I don’t care about new bedding or subscription app, I just wish there’s an
employer who’d let me take a good 15-30min nap during lunch, without being
judged. I secretly sneak into my car to nap and it makes a huge difference in
my afternoon productivity.

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clintonb
Why are you prioritizing sleep? What data supports this prioritization?

I’ve had companies offer wellness benefits for fitness classes, massages, etc.
Sleep benefit sounds nice, but it seems a bit too encroaching into my literal
personal space.

If you want people to sleep more, give them less work. Disconnect them from
Slack and email, as you’ve proposed.

The sleep benefit doesn’t quite sit well with me.

P.S. Just because the company offers the benefit doesn't mean people will make
use of the new bedding, app, etc.

~~~
jackcodes
Point taken - this is as valuable an opinion as any other. I'd love for an
empoloyer to care about it enough to 'put their money where their mouth' is
when it comes to making sure I'm looking out for myself sleep wise, but I
wholeheartedly accept this stance.

ref:

[0] Sleep deprivation: Impact on cognitive performance
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2656292/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2656292/)

[1] Need for Sleep: the Impact of a Night of SleepDeprivation on Novice
Developers’Performance
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1805.02544.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/1805.02544.pdf)

[2] Personal anecdata

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rajacombinator
Some mild to severe big brother-esque connotations to this - ie. “your sleep
is to benefit the company.” Just pay the employees better and/or reduce hours
and stress.

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jrowley
Give everyone a copy of why we sleep, and then have a chapter by chapter book
club over a couple of weeks?

I applaud you for helping people with their sleep.

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wyntuition
Literature recommendations on good sleep hygiene, including no screens 1 hour
before bed to sleep meditation would be helpful.

