
Ask HN: Resources for blind developers and sysadmins? - PakG1
Two weeks ago, I woke up one morning with slightly blurry vision and a big, opaque, dark circle getting in the way of many things (especially if I close my right eye).  Visited the doctor and I&#x27;m told that I have macular degeneration in my right eye and a retina problem in my left eye.  It&#x27;s surprising because I&#x27;m not yet 40.  Doctor said I won&#x27;t go blind and prescribed me some medicine for an initial treatment.  I&#x27;m now looking into treatment options and researching this.  I am supposed to go back to the doctor soon for a checkup.  The dark circle has never left me; in fact, it&#x27;s now been joined by a transparent, shimmering circle.<p>I&#x27;m not worried about going blind based on the doctor&#x27;s opinion, but I am concerned that I will have to deal with long-term vision issues.  Currently, I cannot read the text on my screen if I close my right eye, as the dark circle gets in the way of everything.<p>It left me with an interesting question.  I&#x27;d read about blind people working as developers and sysadmins before.  But I never really thought about it, because my vision was so good.  I&#x27;m curious now, depending on how bad my eyes get, how would I transition so that I&#x27;d be able to continue my chosen profession?  Are there blind developers and sysadmins here who can toss a few resources my way?<p>Much appreciated to the HN community in advance, thanks.  I&#x27;m currently based in Asia, so about to sleep soon, hopefully I&#x27;ll wake up with a big load of comments to read.  ;)
======
mltony
Blind software engineer here. Sorry to hear about your eyesight issues,
dealing with that is always hard, but the good news is that there is life
here. I've been working on a bunch of open source projects and recently I
found a full time job as developer. I know almost a dozen blind software
developers working in big IT companies. Let me introduce you to the tools you
can use. There are basically two types of tools: screen magnifiers for those
with low vision and screenreaders for those who don't have any usable vision.
Judging by your description, you might want to start with a magnifier. In the
unfortunate case if your vision keeps getting worse, you can consider
switching to a screenereader. Magnifiers are obviously easier to learn, but
you can write code and do all the good stuff with screenreaders too. I am not
that familiar with Magnifiers, but I've heard that the most popular one is
called ZoomText and it is for Windows. Macs have their own magnifier, not sure
about Linux. In the world of screenreaders you have NVDA and JAWS for Windows,
VoiceOver for Mac, ORCA for Linux and also EmacsSpeak, which is an
accessibility extension for Emacs. You can also use phones with screenreader:
there is VoiceOver for iPhone and TalkBack for android. One suggestion is try
to find an organisation in your country that deals with blind and low-vision
people - ask your eye doctor if he knows any - they might be very useful in
your situation as they can recommend a lot of tools and resources specific for
your country, such as white cane trainig, if you need it, guide dogs, braille
training, they can also probably teach you how to use screenreaders and
magnifiers. Feel free to contact me if you have any more questions: anton
<dot> malykh <at> gmail. And good luck!

~~~
ndarilek
Blind developer/sysadmin here as well. I completely agree with the above
comment, and would add to it:

I'm not sure what platform you currently use, but if not Windows, you're in
for some challenges if you're blind or visually-impaired. I'm currently using
Linux because I'm a console-based developer (I mean, I still use Firefox and
the GUI but run most dev tools from the console.) This generally works well
enough for me until I need an IDE, because my current codebase is
C#/CSHTML/JavaScript/HTML/CSS/TypeScript, and I can't juggle all that state in
my head without something like an IDE to help out. And, as far as I know,
there's nothing like that available and accessible for Linux. My hope is that
VSCode can help a bit, but Electron apps are currently inaccessible under
Linux, which rules out a whole bunch of traditionally useful tools (No
"Electron is bloated" arguments here please, this is something else entirely.)
Unless you're a Linux user who uses mostly GTK-Gecko-based tools and the
console, and those GTK-based tools don't use crazy custom widgets, you can
make Linux work. But QT is challenging, Electron is out, and Chromium/Chrome
are inaccessible (though I hear that is changing soon.) Windows offers lots
more tooling, plus access to Electron apps, which opens up many more
possibilities for non-console-based development.

But anyway, if you can at all transition your workflow to Windows before
things get more challenging, I think you'll be in a better place. I'm about to
ditch Linux soon, but for a high-end PC which will run VMs for anything I
might need. Running a pile of VMs is probably the best solution to this issue,
but second best would almost certainly be Windows. MacOS and Linux trail
behind, unfortunately.

I also wish you good luck. Happy to chat if I can help more. nolan at
thewordnerd dot info

~~~
jareds
I'm a totally blind developer and have never gotten Linux to work very well.
What distro do you use? I'm also curious if you run Linux in VM's with speach?
I think part of my problem may be bad audio support in Virtualbox and I may
have better luck with VMware. I use Windows 10 every day with Jaws and Windows
subsystem for Linux. WSL has noticeably increased my productivity compared to
Cygwin do to the larger volume of software that runs in it and no longer
having the need to spend time compiling tools from source. I find NVDA to be a
pretty good screen reader and you could probably use it full time. I've used
Jaws for over 20 years though so it's worth paying the $100 a year to keep up
to date rather then spending the time getting used to a new screen reader.
It's also nice to have a company you can call for support and talk to someone
instantly when your entire ability to do your job depends on screen reading
software.

~~~
ndarilek
I use Fedora. Most of my issues seem like potential leaks/performance
degradations in the accessibility stack. Performance drops over time, and
doesn't seem to improve when apps are killed/restarted. The only components I
can't restart are a11y-related, and the only way to get performance back is to
restart or log back out and in. Maybe the issue is gnome-shell, but I can't
help but feel like there'd be a revolt if everyone experienced the performance
issues I do, so unfairly or not I blame accessibility.

------
p932
Sorry about a bit off-topic and not directly answering your questions but your
story resonated with my experience. Maybe it might help you or not :)

I've had surgeries on both my eyes for retinal detachment before I was 22
years old (30ish now). I am now handling myopia of -16 due to bad eyes and
post-surgery effects. I don't want to insinuate that you have the same
conditions but I dealt with similar symptoms. Sudden loss of vision, dark
circles and dark drops passing in the vision is a scary and distraught
feeling.

The thought process you describe happened to me as well and is still in-
progress. Dealing with the fact that having such issues "early" in life poses
questions and anxiety for what might happen later. I kind of navigated over
the years with two ways of dealing with this. First as you today with the
ideas of pro-active actions to prepare for the day I might go blind: learning
braille, using a computer without or very poor sight and thinking about
possible career transitions.

I was lucky enough that the surgeries went well and my sight "kind of"
stabilized. Over the years I adopted a more "optimistic" approach. Even with a
bad start, it is still only a possibility and not a certainty to become blind.
I decided to live my life as fully as possible with my current sight and avoid
to end-up in a anxiety circle about it. Who knows I might still have my sight
for life. And by the time it might deteriorate, technology and medical science
will have improve, thus hopefully increasing the chances in treatment, tools
and possibilities.

Good luck for everything.

------
AndrewOMartin
I know 'ed' isn't commonly regarded as the peak of accessible interface
design, but it occurred to me recently that it was at least designed under the
assumption that the user wouldn't be able to see their document, and that
retrieving/printing content from the document would be relatively expensive
and inconvenient.

I wonder therefore if ed might be a surprisingly accessible editor for users
with vision issues, or maybe its a case of users without vision issues simply
finding it "no less hellish".

~~~
snazz
See Edbrowse[0] for a web browser and text editor designed with ed user
interface principals. It’s made by a blind computer user.

[0]: [http://edbrowse.org](http://edbrowse.org)

~~~
AndrewOMartin
Lovely response, thx.

The philosophy of edbrowse, plus some light computing history, is in a
beautiful article linked from that page.

[http://www.eklhad.net/philosophy.html](http://www.eklhad.net/philosophy.html)

------
zersiax
Another blind developer chipping in, although most things really have already
been said. I have only recently (over the last 4-5 years) started programming
professionally, and I have certainly run into my fair share of hurtles along
the way. However, by figuring out workarounds or alternatives to inaccessible
tools, you can certainly be efficient in this space without using your eyes at
all. I have no experience using magnification software as I am fully blind
myself, but like others I'd also be more than happy to talk about the little
tricks of the trade I've picked up over the years. Feel free to reach out on
Twitter or so ( @zersiax ).

~~~
stochastician
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I knew some prolific visually-
impaired developers in my youth, and never had the wherewithal to ask them
questions about their toolchain.

1\. what can we as engineers without visual impairments do to make our work
more accessible and easier to collaborate with?

2\. are there tools that you wish existed / could make your life easier, but
that would require a significant capital outlay / massive time commitment? of
course you're a dev and can "scratch that itch" yourself, but there are only
so many hours in the day and you have a day job.

I had a friend who was red-green colorblind who pointed out to me that a lot
of the color schemes I was using in my talks were hard for him to quickly
understand, and it was (pardon the pun) quite eye-opening.

------
shitloadofbooks
On a tangent to this, I do 6-8 hours a week "volunteer" work with a friend of
mine who is an audio engineer. (It's actually paid work, but I've never raised
my price over the past 14 years from when I was 18, so it's essentially just
minimum wage/spending money and keeps the relationship professional.)

He uses Windows, Window Eyes and NVDA, Cubase and Mixbus and an absolute
_shitload_ of custom-written AutoHotkey macros and C# applications which I've
written over the past 10 years.

He's amazingly effective (and for certain workflows, with the help of the
macros, far more effective than sighted people) and has recorded, mix and
produced a broad range of music.

My point is, it sucks, but there are some incredible people, doing incredible
things, who are completely blind.

Good luck!

------
renaulth
Hi there, sorry to hear about your sudden vision loss. I'm also visually
impaired with a similar condition as yours.

I'm also a software developer, mainly using Visual Studio, and I use the
Windows Magnifier in docked mode at the top of the screen.

My usable vision in my left (bad) eye, is similar to looking through a frosted
glass pane, my right eye is better and allows me to use a pc as long as I zoom
in on things.

Some things or adjustments I have made:

1) At work and at home I use a 27" 4K monitor. This is so that I can zoom in
on things without it becoming terribly blurry. You could go bigger than this,
say like a 40", but I've never tried it.

2) I also often wear sunglasses in the office to block some glare from ambient
light and from the screen. This dims things quite a bit, but you get used to
it. I can touch type, but mostly only the letters on the keyboard, so I
sometimes struggle with the punctuation or programming symbols while I have
the sunglasses on. I guess I could get a keyboard with backlit keys.

3) At home I use Safari's Reader mode A LOT, this helps reduce clutter, and
allows me to zoom text automatically to a standard font and size. I always
joke by saying I wish the web would go back to black on white html :)

4) I take a daily vitamin called Ocuvite, formulated with Lutein.

As for day to day development tasks, it's not that bad, however, it's
important that you make your condition aware to your colleagues, so that they
can understand and accommodate you. Whenever I go over to someones desk to
look at something on their PC, they will almost always zoom in for me to see.

During meetings or presentations, I stand right up against the side of the TV
or projector screen.

At the risk of rambling on too much, I hope you find what works for you!

Cheers

~~~
renaulth
Sorry, I forgot to mention you should watch this video by Abrar Sheikh:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3WpnG49XLc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3WpnG49XLc)

What he's achieved is quite impressive.

------
Corvus
There was a discussion about this a while back at a Tetra Society meeting;
[http://www.tetrasociety.org/](http://www.tetrasociety.org/).

One idea I thought promising was audio games and household assistance
delivered through devices like Google Home and Amazon Echo. They could be
programmed and controlled though a natural-language API like Inform7, which is
used for interactive fiction.

I do not know of any working tools for developing these, but I heard of a BBC
experiment called "The Inspection Chamber" that allows playing audio games
solely through voice. There is an article at
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/pilots/inspection-
chamber](https://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/pilots/inspection-chamber)

------
slartibardfast0
apologies if the non-software related comment is unwelcome.

I know some people who were afflicted by macular degeneration at a younger
ago. They speak positively about supplements that contain all three of lutein,
zeaxanthin and meso-zeaxanthin[1]; which have shown some solid results[2] in
slowing down progress of dry MD & preventing its progress to wet MD.

Wising you the very best of luck managing this!

1\. Macushield or Macushield Gold (AREDS formula)
[https://www.macushield.com/](https://www.macushield.com/) 2\.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4963902/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4963902/)

------
neom
I worked with a blind software engineer for quite some time. He's tweeted a
little bit about it in the past[1], he's also one of my favourite people I've
worked with, he's incredibly kind and I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you reached
out. Wishing you well.

[1]
[https://twitter.com/ezufelt/status/1003070722879651840](https://twitter.com/ezufelt/status/1003070722879651840)

------
PakG1
Thanks everyone, HN rocks as usual. :)

------
sbahram
This is a pretty broad topic, and many people have spent their lives working
in the digital inclusion and accessibility space, so I don't mean for this to
even remotely be exhaustive, but at a high-level, I can offer some thoughts
that may be of help.

Let's consider two groups for now, though there are many others. Folks who are
blind or have pretty impaired vision and then those who have some usable
vision. For those of us who are blind or mostly blind, we use speech and
Braille to interact with technology instead of a visual user interface (UI).
The program that translates the UI into speech/braille is typically a
screenreader. On Windows, the two popular screenreaders are Jaws and NVDA.
Jaws is proprietary, costing upwards of $1K to $1.5K depending on add-ons,
etc., and was widely considered the best game in town for the longest time.
around 11 years ago, two blind guys out of Australia, Mik and Jamie (Jamie now
works for Mozilla), rightfully thought it was ridiculous that an already
disadvantaged audience should have to pay more than what most folks pay for
their computers to access them, and so they worked on the free and open source
NVDA screenreader , which stands for non-visual desktop access. Anyways, on
Mac, there's the built-In VoiceOver screenreader from Apple, though the mobile
instantiation of this screenreader, the one that is built into every single
IOS, WatchOs, and TVOS device tends to be superior to its desktop counterpart,
which is suboptimal wen it comes to surfing the web, interacting with
programs, etc. in my and others' opinion.

For our second group, there's screen enlargement. Hell, back in the DOS days,
I would have my nose on the glass of the CRT monitor to read the text, which I
enlarged a bit because my brother showed me the 'mode 40' command which did 40
lines per screen instead of 80, thereby doubling the height of characters and
at that time, making them readable to me. Now, I rely purely on screenreading-
based approaches. Programs like the magnifier built into Windows and Mac,
ZoomText, and others exist to enlarge the contents of the display, change
foreground and background colors far past OS capabilities, offer auto-panning
and focus-tracking, and generally act as you would expect a smart magnifying
glass to behave. Again, shout out to Apple here: all of their devices have
this feature built-in.

So, in Linux land, we've got the Orca screenreader. Joanie has done a truly
incredible job managing that project and the volunteer community is awesome,
but it's not anywhere near as resourced as NVDA, for example. Therefore, I
consider Orca a labor of love and the best tool around for accessing the Gnome
desktop, but it's not as fully-featured as NVDA, Jaws, etc. again IMHO. On
Linux natively, there is also the SpeakUp screen reader, which patches
directly into the kernel and intercepts input/output buffers. SpeakUp has the
advantage of getting you speech earlier to boot-time, and it
supported/supports a myriad of hardware synthesizers, which is still a big
deal for a subset of screenreading users. It does not work in GUI environments
though. I'd be remiss if I did not point out Emacspeak, though it is a self-
voicing Emacs environment with all the advantages and disadvantages therein.
Gnome, and maybe KDE?, also has magnification, but it's been a little while
since I've played with this, so not sure if it's just using magnification
primitives of basic video card driver stuff, actually manipulating underlying
windowing primitives, etc.

So, I know that's a ton of background/lead-in, and I apologize, but I just
wanted to contextualize some of these answers. Also, note that I'm leaving out
a solid 90% of things.

For sys-admin stuff, back when I did a lot more of it, I would use my windows
laptop and then ssh to access an army of machines running various operating
systems, mostly Linux. I would write scripts in Perl, later Python, to
automate things for me, as most sysadmins do. I would usually find a way to
edit on my Windows PC, and then transfer the files to the right place. Over
the years, this has seen me explore everything from samba shares, SFTP-mapped
drives, two terminals open with an up-arrow of an scp command prepped to go,
shared drives with multiple OS environments accessing it like in the case of
VMWare mirroring out a disk, etc. etc. The reason for this is that editing on
Windows tends to be far more accessible than relying on the interplay of nano
or vi within an ssh window. Don't get me wrong, if I need to dip in an change
a hosts file, quickly edit an nginx config, go modify a crontab entry,
whatever ... those are doable with a nano or vi invocation in my ssh window,
but for more complex editing (think back to going through all the lines of
php.ini or making sure fstab is all good, etc.) then I would bring the file to
windows, edit and send back. Yes, this is as annoying as it sounds, and I used
to be a wizard at fromdos and the tofrodos tools, etc.

Anything web-based is of course froth with whether or not its accessible.
Hell, HN isn't exactly great in this space, having some truly avoidable and
bad web accessibility (just saying ... would take less than a day to make this
website so much easier to use with a screen reader). For what I mean by web
accessibility, take a look at the WCAG 2.1 by the W3C. I'll put links at the
bottom of this message for as many things as I can think of. I mention web
accessibility, though, because of tools like PhpMyAdmin, SQLBuddy, the web
interface on routers and switches and PDUs, etc. There again, I like Ubiquiti
products for example, since I can ssh into them and go to town.

Other sysadmin tasks involve things like port scanning, network traffic
capture, setting up permissions, installing applications, etc., which are all
done in similar ways, but it's the "how" that's different, not the "what", if
that makes sense. I use nmap just like you for port scanning, but I may do
stuff like redirect the output to a file that's growing and then use notepad
or wordpad to consume that file as it grows, or 'tail -f ' it with greps
sprinkled into the pipe chain just to make it less noisy.

Speaking of output being noisy, conventions matter, right? So, for example,
imagine parsing a web access log with speech. You can visually just gloss over
the timestamp and host information to get the crux of what you want to look
for, but I have to listened to most/all of that content to get to what I want.
To this end, I would either specify different format strings to put important
information up front on the line, but then I've got non-standard logs, or do
creative things with awk/gawk/perl one-liners, etc.

I feel this has turned more into high-level thoughts and less tools, so maybe
I should end with apologizing that I'm not sure I even remotely answered your
question, but felt this info could add some context to the discussion. If you
are looking for highly specific strategies and targeted solutions, I would be
happy to speak with you one-on-one over email, voice, etc. I believe strongly
in paying things forward, and there have been many folks who have helped me
along the way.

Fun fact, I wrote this in Outlook's new email window, spell-checked it a bit,
and then pasted it into HN's edit field. Something that may seem totally
weird, but a type of computer interaction I don't even think about anymore,
even though it's probably quite different than how most folks use various
applications, web or otherwise. The reason for this is that the affordances of
web edit fields, even when some accessibility has been taken into account, are
minimal in comparison to far more accessible interactions like the new message
window of Outlook.

Some links:

WCAG 2.1 [https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/](https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/)

orca Screenreader
[https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/](https://help.gnome.org/users/orca/stable/)

NVDA Screenreader [https://www.nvaccess.org/about-
nvda/](https://www.nvaccess.org/about-nvda/)

speakup Project: [http://www.linux-speakup.org/](http://www.linux-
speakup.org/)

JAWS Screenreader:
[https://www.freedomscientific.com/Products/Blindness/JAWS](https://www.freedomscientific.com/Products/Blindness/JAWS)

zoomtext Magnifier: [https://www.zoomtext.com/](https://www.zoomtext.com/)

emacspeak
[http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/](http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/)

cheers, and I do wish you all the best with your vision. Thank you for asking
this question on HN. I hope others contribute to the conversation and this
gets some increased awareness.

~~~
ndarilek
Man, I feel like half this post was my sysadmin playbook. I eventually got
sick of explaining why it was such a pain in the ass to crack open vim and
edit remote files, and why it was much easier to edit locally and scp back. I
credit interactive fiction for the problem-solving skills, and gopher for the
boost to memorization (gopher because if you wanted to find that primitive
search engine 12 levels deep, you had to memorize lots of strings of numbers
to navigate those mazes of menus. Not much different than how we use
appliances these days, really, though it's hell to manage if you're stoned or
not 100% on your game. :)

~~~
sbahram
Yeah, I hear you. Honestly the smart-home/IOT movement has been very
beneficial, not because of the sorry excuses for automation being sold right
now, but because it enforces a certain level of pre-2005-web-like openness. I
knew all the file system structures and specific web paths back in the day
because it was just necessary to memorize it and easy to access things if you
had specifics, whereas now everything is cryptographic strings, super long
addresses like IP V6 ones, and based on dynamic interactions so that deep URLs
are pretty much worthless to memorize except maybe on sites like GitHub, where
the pattern is reasonable. The reason for my comment on smart-home stuff
bringing back some of this openness is only that at least now there's a
backdoor, so to speak. When a microwave doesn't talk and also has very little
tactile differentiation on the buttons, at least you can use your Google Home
or Amazon Alexa to tell that thing to warm up a plate for 3 minutes. Same goes
for toaster ovens, rice cookers, water boilers, Sous Vide circulators,
thermostats, locks, lights, etc. Yet another of the countless examples of why
having things be open and have an API makes it better for absolutely everyone,
especially since it facilitates use cases not able to be foreseen at
inception. And, yes I do believe all of that can be done in a secure and
sensible way. No need for security to be antithetical to inclusion, which is a
pretty popular misconception.

Speaking of whacky stuff to do to access Linux and text editing, I remember
back wen Jaws and even NVDA had far worse cursor tracking in the Windows CMD
window, so you couldn't be sure that when your screen reader said it was
beside a certain character, that it actually was. This is something I argue no
sighted user of a computer has probably ever had to deal with, and never for a
duration of years. So what I would do is I would type 'z' and then route the
screenreader's secondary cursor to make sure that the 'z' I added was added
where it would/should have been, if my cursor was in fact where the screen
reader said. Just imagine needing to text edit where you can't even trust the
position of the system caret .... fun times!

------
DoreenMichele
This Ask showed up on a Google Group I happen to co-own called Blind Dev
Works. So far, it's been very low traffic, but it is a resource that already
exists intended to support the needs of blind developers.

You and any other blind developers here (or potential allies) are welcome to
join. Just send a join request. I'll approve it.

[https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/blind-dev-
works](https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/blind-dev-works)

(I'm visually impaired, but not blind. I'm not really a programmer either,
though I still hope to be one someday.)

~~~
PakG1
Thanks, I'll join soon, depending on my prognosis. Hope it's not bad to say
this, but prefer to not join too many things to limit the volume of emails
going into my inbox! :)

~~~
DoreenMichele
Whatever works for you.

------
drallison
Check out the resources at [http://benetech.org](http://benetech.org) for
blind and vision impaired people. Benetech is located in Palo Alto, CA USA.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benetech](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benetech)

------
bayesian_horse
Considering vision problems: I wonder if VR headsets could be hacked to be a
useful screen-magnifier. The screen would not necessarily be represented like
a big movie screen, but you could move around the screen using head motions.
Not sure about the ergonomics of this, but it might work better than solutions
on standard computer screens.

~~~
shironineja
I have a strong vision impairment and have tried this when Occulus first came
out. I found the lag not good and became no longer interested in this problem.
There are a few vendors working in this space whose hardware is slowly getting
better ...

[https://www.esighteyewear.com/technology](https://www.esighteyewear.com/technology)

------
userbinator
You may find this previous item about a blind developer using Visual(!) Studio
interesting:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14347908](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14347908)

------
sbfeibish
Read up on how blue light + retinal can knock out photoreceptor cells.
Especially in your 50s and 60s. When your immune system goes downhill. You can
reduce the amount of blue light on your smartphones and monitors.

------
WalterBright
A very interesting thread about this on HN recently:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18414562](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18414562)

~~~
Cyphase
Parent link is: (Ask HN: How should a programming language accommodate
disabled programmers?)

And another related thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18478776](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18478776)
(Ask HN: Blind programmers, what can I do to make my code easier for you?)

------
gostsamo
One more resource for visually impaired developers is program-l@freelists.org

