

Ask HN: Can someone with just CSS/HTML experience get a tech job? - eranation

Is there a job market for people with just CSS3/HTML5 knowledge but nothing more?<p>EDIT: disclaimer - it's not me, it's a friend, but still the question is as important. it warms the heart to see how much support and good spirit HN community has, he'll love to read the replies. thanks.
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no_more_death
Hey Eranation! I think you can get started without too much trouble. You could
try gun.io or grouptalent.com to get some freelance projects under your belt.

To do well in this industry you need to be a learner. I'm going to take some
time to lay out how to learn web design.

1\. My number one advice: Try new things. Don't limit yourself. Don't get
overwhelmed. Don't tell yourself you could never do JavaScript (for example).
Please don't get overwhelmed at the size of this post ;-) Also, keep an open
mind. Don't fall into the mantra that there's one true way to do anything.

2\. Do you have any graphic design skill? You have a good chance of breaking
into the industry if you do. I am strong enough on Linux administration and
PHP code that I can get along without very much design knowledge. However, one
of my number one priorities is to grow in my knowledge and experience of
graphic design. I glanced over your submissions and it sounds like you might
have some design know-how. Anyway, I think you will find the links I included
quite helpful.

3\. In line with advice #1: I recommend that you gradually work your way
toward a better understanding of how to code. Begin with JavaScript, probably
jQuery. I would focus on tutorials that show you how to create visual effects
/ more complex user interfaces (switching content on and off, etc). Then dig
deeper into JavaScript. I would focus on Javascript because it's a very
interesting language and because you have to learn it anyway for frontend
work. At some point, you may have to learn PHP (which, frankly, isn't very
interesting).

EDIT: fixed formatting typo; tried to make it more on topic.

_________________________

Design Links:

* The following guide is fantastic. This helped me the most.
    
    
      > http://www.andyrutledge.com/gestalt-principles-1-figure-ground-relationship.php
    

* More great guides.
    
    
      > http://www.visualmess.com/
    
      > http://paulstamatiou.com/startup-web-design-ux-crash-course
    
      > http://blog.easel.io/blog/2012/07/02/design-without-a-designer/
    

* Picking a good color scheme is essential.
    
    
      > http://design-seeds.com/
    
      > https://kuler.adobe.com/
    

* People go online to read (or watch videos). So typography really is super important.
    
    
      > http://retinart.net/graphic-design/secret-law-of-page-harmony/
    
      > http://www.pearsonified.com/2011/12/golden-ratio-typography.php
    

* Design is a lot about imitating other people's work. Here are some places where you can see that work.
    
    
      > dribbble.com
    
      > forr.st
    
      > patterntap.com
    
      > http://thedesignreport.com/
    

* Depth is essential for a design that takes your client's breath away. Here's a great article about John Harris's use of depth and scale.
    
    
      > http://colorcubic.com/2010/09/07/the-science-fiction-art-of-john-harris/
    

* You've probably figured out that responsive design is crucial in today's environment. Here are my favorite links.
    
    
      > Responsive Layouts: http://www.lukew.com/ff/entry.asp?1514
    
      > Responsive Examples: http://mediaqueri.es/
    
      > Responsive Navigation: This is one of the most important things to get right, especially for a phone layout. http://bradfrostweb.com/blog/web/responsive-nav-patterns/
    

* Stunning graphics is more likely to get you a job than user interface design. But UI design (or UX "user experience") is arguably more important. The following articles will get you started.
    
    
      > Designing better interfaces: http://www.slideshare.net/Wolfr/designing-better-user-interfaces
    
      > Emotion and Users: http://blog.gaborcselle.com/2012/05/eight-emotions-every-user-enjoys.html
    
      > Principles for Form Design from Eye Tracking Studies: http://www.cxpartners.co.uk/cxblog/web_forms_design_guidelines_an_eyetracking_study/
    
      > Signup page: http://www.contrast.ie/blog/designing-your-sign-up-page/
    
      > Simplifying sign up forms: http://sachagreif.com/simplified-sign-up-and-log-in/
    
      > Anatomy of a Landing Page: http://www.formstack.com/the-anatomy-of-a-perfect-landing-page
    
      > Improving usability IQ: http://ui-patterns.com/blog/How-to-get-better-at-UI-design
    

_________________________

Coding Links (Mostly JavaScript):

* Good jQuery resource:
    
    
      > http://jqfundamentals.com/book/index.html
    

* Great first taste of how Javascript looks and feels:
    
    
      > http://ejohn.org/apps/learn/
    

* Lots of skills you should eventually try to master:
    
    
      > http://rmurphey.com/blog/2012/04/12/a-baseline-for-front-end-developers/
    

* The ShopTalk podcast and the CSS Tricks blog could be a good first step from CSS to hard-core programming. However, after looking at your submissions, I'm pretty sure you already know these people.

* After you've played around with some jQuery, you should learn javascript from the ground up.
    
    
      > http://eloquentjavascript.net/contents.html
    

* Doug Crockford is a very famous (and influential) javascript guru. Please Note: he's extremely opinionated and assertive! You've met people like this in real life and you know that they are usually too one-sided. He's got good things to say, but keep an open mind.
    
    
      > Book: Javascript: The Good Parts (find it on Amazon)
    
      > Helpful Crockford articles: http://javascript.crockford.com/
    

* Six months from now, when you've mastered Crockford's way of doing things, try opening your mind and reading the following. Indeed, a lot of (closed-minded) people would shoot me for suggesting these links, but they show that the standard advice isn't always true.
    
    
      > Javascript doesn't need semicolons most of the time: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1028684
    
      > The with statement can be useful: http://stackoverflow.com/a/1028684
    
      > Using JS Function() to increase performance: https://github.com/felixge/faster-than-c#examples
    

* Good resources for keeping up to date on JavaScript:
    
    
      > Mozilla Dev Hacks (unfortunately they are overly pro-Firefox): https://hacks.mozilla.org/
    
      > Google's blog: http://blog.chromium.org/
    
      > Sorry the site title is kind of vulgar, but the content is excellent: http://badassjs.com
    

* I could include a million javascript frameworks and plugins. However, I recommend that you don't start with these frameworks right away. It's easy to get blown away by the complexity. Learn core javascript. Get experience building your own stuff, learn that you need more structure, experiment with different ways of structuring your code. Then try BackboneJS.
    
    
      > http://backbonejs.org
    

_________________________

CONCLUSION

Good luck! Let the HN community know how it turns out for you!

~~~
eranation
Thank you so much for the very detailed reply, that person is not me, but a
very good friend, and this question was to encourage him to continue his
learning. based on these answers, I have a lot of strong arguments to convince
him to continue the amazing adventure he took into becoming a web developer.

as a web developer myself, I am going to visit each and every one of those
links.

this is one of the best comments I've seen here, I just love HN. thank you!

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dandelany
Short answer: Can you find a job with just these skills? Yes.

But think a bit about the bigger picture here - do you want to make a career
out of this? And if so, where do you want to go with it? HTML/CSS is a good
place to start because it represents the fundamental visual building blocks of
web apps. It's also in a bit of the middle ground - all the way at the front
of the "web stack" code-wise, and also very closely related to design.

no_more_death suggests that you bone up on design and gradually learn to code.
If you want to eventually work on your own, as a freelancer or co-founder,
this is good advice. If you're looking to make a career at larger companies,
or want to focus more on short-term job prospects, I'd suggest you pick one of
the two - buckle down on learning either design or code.

What compels you about HTML/CSS? Is it the logic of boiling down visual
concepts into their fundamental parts? If so, start playing with Javascript
(with a jQuery cushion) to see how you can manipulate these parts in all sorts
of ways, and go down the code rabbit hole. If you're more into the visual side
of it, the creativity of being able to come up with any design you like and
turn it into a website, start messing around in Photoshop and checking out
some design resources online (see no_more_death's extensive list).

In any case, good luck, and let me know if you have any more questions. Yes,
you can probably get by in life knowing only HTML & CSS and never starve. But
I hope you branch out a bit and check out some of the bigger picture, because
it's really quite cool :)

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pacomerh
Yeah of course, become really good at it and you have several options. 1. You
can team up with another programmer to fill the gaps. 2. State that this is
what you do and you do it very well and people will hire you for this phase of
development. 3. Package it as a service do PSD conversions for a flat fee,
SaaS ?

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OafTobark
I've seen some places hire exclusively for these positions so yes. Tell your
friend to check out job listings with slicing as a job description

