
AmazonFresh rolls out mandatory $299/year ‘Prime Fresh’ grocery membership - pavornyoh
http://www.geekwire.com/2015/after-delay-amazon-rolls-out-mandatory-299year-prime-fresh-membership-as-promised/
======
bhauer
As a Los Angeles resident, when I experimented with Amazon Fresh, it required
a Prime Fresh subscription. I don't recall it ever being free. The $300 annual
subscription, when combined with my assessment that the value I received for
that $300 was very low, is the reason I did not renew.

That said, I _can_ understand offended customers taking to Twitter to express
their frustration. Sometimes, it's not quite enough of a signal to simply not
renew a subscription. If you want the company to actually understand why you
didn't renew and possibly improve in ways that matter to you as a customer,
you must communicate your displeasure in some way. These tweets are just a
convenient way to be heard. And lo, here is an article republishing them,
possibly to Amazon's frustration.

I love the free market, and recognize that consumer demand is a very strong
signal, ultimately the most important signal for a supplier. But I don't see
why consumers shouldn't augment that signal with plain old English.

~~~
saurik
> But I don't see why consumers shouldn't augment that signal with plain old
> English.

There is a big difference between the people who are saying "wait, now it
costs this much money? ok, I'm no longer buying this: that is way too much for
too little value; there's no way I'd pay more than $X (where X might be 0)...
I wonder what Amazon might be thinking here" and the people who are leaning on
"it is morally wrong to be charging a fee for something that was free
yesterday" (especially given the system-wide workaround these people often
don't even notice, which is the company with the too-low pricing goes out of
business and gets replaced by a competitor that charged the right amount from
the first day of operation) or the people who are pushing at "I am incredibly
angry at Amazon for doing this" (seriously? there's no good reason to be
angry). I do not think the latter two are appropriate behaviors for consumers,
and it is those kinds of responses I think the people you are trying to speak
at are taking issue with.

~~~
derefr
Factual writing has linear reach and exponential decay through networks, such
that most people feel it pointless to bother expressing the facts of their
problem. Moral-panic propaganda, meanwhile, is an instrument that companies
actually fear, because it has viral potential; and so the one people tend to
feel will actually get their complaints acknowledged. It's unrealistic to
expect people to engage with companies in any other way (at least unless
there's some sort of collective-bargaining structure in place; unions and
guilds are perfectly fine making factual arguments.)

------
ascorbic
I'm constantly amazed that supermarkets in the US don't do delivery like those
in the UK. Almost all will do next day delivery for just a few pounds at most.
No subscription, just go to the site and order, picking the delivery slot. It
works, and is massively popular.

~~~
drglitch
Stop & Shop (Peapod), Whole foods, Shoprite, Kings, and until its bankrupcy,
A&P - i.e. every major chain in NJ - all offer online ordering + free pickup
and/or cheap (usually free with threshold) delivery for at least 3 years now.
Its wildly popular, especially with seniors who get help with heavier items.

~~~
ascorbic
So why do people pay subscriptions to Amazon then if they can get it so much
cheaper elsewhere?

~~~
dragonwriter
Marketing?

------
gergles
I was using Fresh in Manhattan (for free, for several months) with absolutely
zero sign they would ever be trying their (ludicrous) $300 annual membership
here as early as 3 days ago, and I got no notice whatsoever that I now needed
to buy-up to a more expensive membership other than when I tried to go back in
and place an order today.

They have shitloads of competition in this market. I don't get why they think
they can get away with a $300 fee when Peapod/FreshDirect both charge $100 a
year. Granted, it isn't same-day delivery, but same-day was rarely available
to me anyway. Additionally, Prime Now further cannibalizes the value of this,
because most of the grocery items you'd want last minute are available there
for no additional upcharge with a smaller minimum and the ability to get a
1-hour window if you Really Need It Now™.

Ah well, thanks Amazon for the totes; I still have a few that I was supposed
to return with my next order, which will now be never.

~~~
drglitch
+1 for peapod - and if you switch your grocery shopping to twice a month
instead of weekly, you get discounted/free shipping anyway on orders over
100$.

Something wrong with item (e.g. bananas too ripe or eggs broken?) - 10 min
phone call and you get a credit for entire item no questions asked. Last time
i tried getting in touch with amazon it was a 2 day ordeal (though to their
credit, the result was similar).

------
lifeformed
Honestly, $6 a week for delivered groceries doesn't seem too crazy to me. I
guess the bigger issue is that starting with a free or cheap product, and then
upping the price later, is a lot more offensive than vice versa.

~~~
rickyc091
It was actually advertised as a trial program when you signed up. I started
using them in NYC since February.Since then I've received two emails from them
that my subscription has been extended. This email was received in June.

That being said, I don't plan on paying an extra $200 on top of my prime to
renew this service. While the prices are comparable to Whole Foods / Fairway /
Trade Joes the inventory isn't great. A lot of the items I use to purchase in
February are no longer available. I can't ever seem to place an order for baby
spinach.... I mean something as simple as that is always out of stock...

\---

Thank you for being an AmazonFresh customer! We're happy to let you know we're
extending the use of AmazonFresh to Amazon Prime members through September
2015. At the end of this free period, you'll need to sign up for a Prime Fresh
membership (an upgraded tier of Amazon Prime) to continue enjoying free
delivery from AmazonFresh.

We hope you continue to make AmazonFresh your favorite place to shop for
groceries, fresh produce, and everyday essentials. Be sure to visit our Summer
Treats store for delicious ways to cool down over the summer.

Thank you,

AmazonFresh

------
haubey
I remember when Publix tried to do grocery delivery in 2003 and it failed. It
makes me think the issue isn't with the technology on the web-side, or even in
the route planning. The costs of having refrigerated trucks continually
roaming the streets in such large, suburban areas just might not be feasible
yet.

~~~
_delirium
In lower-density areas, I think most supermarkets have found that online order
+ in-person pickup has been more successful, as a halfway solution that's much
cheaper. A huge portion of their customers drive past one of their
supermarkets on the way home from work anyway. Obviously this doesn't apply to
people who don't drive to work in the first place, but about 90% of Americans
do drive to work, so the numbers for that option are fairly favorable [1]. And
in many zip codes the proportion approaches 100%. Walmart also recently rolled
out an online-order / curbside pickup thing for groceries [2]. I'll be
interested if any numbers emerge about how it's doing.

[1] [http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brookings-
now/posts/2013/10/n...](http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brookings-
now/posts/2013/10/ninety-percent-of-americans-drive-to-work)

[2] [http://time.com/money/4054549/wal-mart-grocery-pickup-
amazon...](http://time.com/money/4054549/wal-mart-grocery-pickup-amazon/)

------
Animats
_" I Am Altering The Deal. Pray I Don't Alter It Any Further"_ \- Lord Vader.

This may indicate a failure. What killed Webvan was low market penetration.
They had 3% of the market in 30 markets, and needed 30% of the market in 3
markets. With low market penetration, deliveries are too far apart and there
are too few deliveries per truck per hour. Amazon could succeed where Webvan
failed only if they achieved a high percentage of potential customers. They'd
like the truck to stop at every house. To get there, they had to offer
cheap/free delivery at a loss, trying for market saturation.

At $299 per year, that may mean Amazon is giving up on Fresh as a high volume
service with high market penetration, and repositioning it as a luxury service
with few customers.

~~~
dingaling
In the UK Amazon have said they want to take 2% of the fresh-food delivery
market in their initial areas, so it does appear that they're targeting a
particular demographic which is price-insensitive but time-sensitive.

------
inflagranti
What's happening with Fresh looks to me like nothing was learned from the Fire
phone fiasco. Amazon became big as a low-price, low-margin online retail
company providing a near endless selection of products.

Fresh however already now has a in my opinion a too high price point on many
products and a 300.- yearly fee will just make the situation worse. But what's
really a deal-breaker for me is that the selection is barely larger than the
one of my local deli around the corner and can definitely not compete with the
choice offered going to any major super market.

This was very astonishing to me trying out Fresh for the first time, coming
from Switzerland where we have the two major supermarket chains delivering
their whole range of products all over the country without the need for a
yearly subscription. I can't really understand why an international, multi-
billion dollar company like Amazon is not able to provide a similar selection,
especially given the restriction of currently only servicing major US cities.

------
tracker1
Mini rant ahead... I'm in Tempe (near Phoeinix). It is very frustrating that I
live in a pretty large area in terms of technology and population. Yet, this
seems to be one of the last cities to see services like this (instacart,
AmazonFresh, etc). Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the country, and
including the suburbs is #4 iirc. I realize we're geographically spread out,
but so is the L.A. area.

All of that said, it's a lot easier to plan for per-delivery fees over an
annual fee much more than $100, which you already pay for prime... I think
they should just let straight prime members order with at $10-20 per delivery
fee... that would be a lot easier to swallow.

~~~
whoopdedo
The Sears & Roebuck catalog was sent to rural farmers who had limited access
to durable goods. It does seem to me counterproductive that Amazon tested this
in cities that already have easy access to grocery markets.

$299/yr is $5.75 per delivery if you order something every week. But $25 if
you only buy once a month. For the service to be worthwhile they need to sell
to areas that need better access to fresh foods. There's a name for that, food
deserts _. And Los Angeles, Seattle, and New York are not on that list. Maybe
if they had tested in a place like Phoenix they would have seen much higher
use and could justify a lower subscription rate with delivery charge.

_
[http://apps.ams.usda.gov/fooddeserts/foodDeserts.aspx](http://apps.ams.usda.gov/fooddeserts/foodDeserts.aspx)

~~~
pkaye
I'm guessing places that are "food deserts" are generally not affluent enough
to be the target market that will pay a delivery fee.

------
wpietri
Huh. In SF, at least for me, I think they've always required the $299/year
fee. I had wanted to try it out, but since I get most of my groceries from the
neighborhood store, it never made financial sense for me.

------
martingordon
I can already get free same-day delivery from Amazon or various grocery stores
via Amazon Prime Now (I'm in Manhattan). What does an extra $200/year get me?

~~~
rickyc091
The key differences are the unattended delivery and the instacart (1 hr time
slot delivery). The unattended is nice, they put it in a tote/cooler and it
stays cool for 3 hours.

------
IshKebab
Wow that is expensive. Is it because it is same-day delivery? Most UK
supermarkets do delivery for a quid or two. It doesn't come the same day,
but... $300?!

~~~
maratd
The only way you'll get it on the same day is if you order it early in the
morning for evening delivery. It's not a local supermarket, they need to
schedule a driver and bring the stuff to you from their warehouse.

Most supermarkets around me (NYC area) do deliver. Some for free. On top of
that, there's Peapod, Fresh Direct, and a bunch of others.

This is a profoundly stupid move by Amazon. I can't imagine anyone would want
to pay for this considering the alternatives available in most metro areas.

------
trevordev
2 months ago trying to use amazon fresh told me I needed to be a prime member
to use it. I signed up for a year of prime for the sole purpose of using
amazon fresh and I was very happy. Now 2 months in they are forcing me to pay
another 200$. This may be my fault for not reading my prime subscription terms
but I feel tricked into buying prime. I will be trying out instacart in the
future.

~~~
spicyj
Amazon generally has good customer service. They might refund you if you ask.

------
forrestthewoods
Insane. Amazon Fresh has good quality product but it's very expensive. This
makes it not even close to worth it.

------
the_cat_kittles
i cannot fucking understand offended customers. you dont want to pay? dont
pay.

~~~
wpietri
They had a deal. Amazon unilaterally renegotiated with no notice or
explanation. Nobody likes a sudden deal change, and nobody likes being
powerless.

I can't understand people getting offended at that. Don't want to hear it?
Don't listen.

~~~
endianswap
FTA they announced this a year ago: [http://www.geekwire.com/2014/amazon-
fresh-require-seattle-cu...](http://www.geekwire.com/2014/amazon-fresh-
require-seattle-customers-buy-299year-prime-fresh-memberships-continue-using-
grocery-service/)

