
The Sex Recession - anarbadalov
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/12/the-sex-recession/573949/
======
leesec
Honestly I think it's the top 20-10~ percent are having a lot more sex and the
rest is having less. I believe this is because people's potential
mating/social circles have grown to encompass the whole world via the
internet.

Where before a very attractive person might only have access to the people in
their friend group/workspace/etc and wind up settling/sleeping with/marrying
one of them, now they can expand beyond that and literally shoot to the top of
the gene/status pool, e.g. a very attractive girl might date a professional
basketball player instead of the cute guy in the office.

This can happen on a smaller scale as well because of things like Tinder. Why
date the amiable and friendly but 6/10 coworker when there is a rich,
successful, charming 9/10 down the block.

Even if people are not doing this they might not be partnering up as much
because of the possibility of it happening. FOMO is constant in relationship
these days, IMO.

~~~
nwah1
If what you say is true, then it would require that these highly attractive
people all monopolize multiple mates simultaneously. Particularly in a gender-
imbalanced fashion. Then, we'd notice a steep dropoff in the percentage of
people in exclusive relationships, and the amount of time they remain in
exclusive relationships. (Stats which one should be able to verify or falsify
fairly easily)

If, however, monogamy has remained the norm, then the percentage of people in
relationships will probably be about the same, and the only prediction one
might be able to make about internet access is that it would strengthen the
trend of assortive mating.

If the latter is true, then the decline in sexual activity remains a
phenomenon to be explained.

~~~
StrictDabbler
Yeah, the comment you're replying to is very red-pill and based on a weird
asymmetrical set of standards.

My feeling is that the high-libido (HL) people are assortatively mating with
other HLs. They're no longer pursuing the medium-libido (ML) or low-libido
(LL) people. The internet helps this a lot.

Without the HL people, the ML/LL people are free to have a more relaxed and
less active sex life. That may mean being single if the libido isn't high
enough to overcome social anxiety or inertia but at least they aren't stuck in
a mono relationship with an unhappy HL who's prone to cheating.

~~~
nwah1
This is an interesting take on assortive mating, and likely has at least some
explanatory power.

I suppose, also, prostitution can skew the numbers. If some people regularly
service hundreds or thousands of people, then that could have a similar effect
on the total numbers. It would seem like there's less sex, but really the
number of sexual sessions is the same or more, just with a fewer percent of
the population.

------
jammygit
I used to do a lot of online dating and the worst dates were with recent
grads.

Usually, they would be either about to graduate, or else they had graduated a
couple of years earlier and had just worked steadily since then.

They would have zero hobbies. They would listen to top 40s music but couldn't
name a band, sometimes watch a movie (but didn't care much what movie), didn't
have opinions on things, had almost no stories to tell. They didn't have ideas
about what to do on a date. They were awkward. Our date would almost always be
the first they had been on in a long time.

It was like they postponed becoming real people in order to become excellent
students and professionals. I get that - their programs are HARD. What a high
cost though.

~~~
geezerjay
> It was like they postponed becoming real people in order to become excellent
> students and professionals.

Has it crossed your mind that some people simply don't care about the generic
mass consumption pop culture you follow, and instead have other interests thay
have nothing in common with yours? After all, your complain boils down to
criticising others for not liking the bands you like or having other
experiences that you enjoy.

~~~
derialstrazus
But he's complaining about them only listening to top 40s music. And nothing
else he's said implies that only generic mass consumption pop culture matters.
Naming a band doesn't imply naming mainstream band, it just implies name A
band, ANY band, and have a bit of preference or taste. Same for movies.
Nothing jammygit has said implies that they need to like the same things he
does. He is, however, implying that they don't like ANYTHING.

------
mywittyname
An aspect of this article that I find interesting is that parents encourage
their children _not_ to date while in school because it's a distraction. I
personally find this idea to be misguided because, at least for myself, having
a person there to support you during the emotional rollercoaster of college is
critical for success. A team can do more than an individual.

------
newnewpdro
Standards/expectations are higher now that both genders are expected to
compete professionally on an equal playing field.

The general attitude towards the opposite sex is more adversarial than ever.

------
babaganoosh89
Because they’re financially stressed and can’t afford kids.

~~~
craftyguy
The article mentions the availability of free birth control in some places.
Can you describe how being 'financially stressed' has anything to do with the
ability or desire to have sex?

~~~
icsllaf
Relating back to the feeling of "not being good enough". You are scared that
your mate might reject you because you are too poor or have less to offer than
whoever else you're competing against. Which, in terms of dating in the modern
world, is pretty much everyone in the world. Less money/confidence also
relates to less time spent on personal hygiene and grooming and also less
willingness to put yourself out there.

In general, I think that having less money does not directly correlate to you
having less sex as the promiscuity rates in many lower income neighborhoods is
higher than the average. But the feeling of "financially stressed" more
relates to intelligence AND the lack of financial resources.

------
Lordarminius
Maybe it has to do with the increased availability of porn.

~~~
choot
I think Porn will make you want more sex, not less.

See, if you saw SD quality porn, you want HD quality then UHD quality porn
after that and maybe VR at some point, realistic sex doll and then finally
something more real.

Do you see the progression? Real sex can't be replaced with porn. Both of them
are not equal in sensation acheived.

~~~
hutzlibu
Maybe it makes people want more sex, but decreses chances, because of fear of
not beeing able to held the high expectations set from porn.

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lostgame
Huh. I’ve seen this posted several times here, now.

Here in Toronto, that most assuredly does not seem to be the case.

Perhaps it’s because I’m a lesbian and on the fringes of the fetish community,
but I certainly don’t see a lack of sexual activity in the city here. Tinder
is super popular as wel.

~~~
commandlinefan
I think this is actually a controversial thing to say, but I've always pretty
much assumed that women who wanted sex could have it essentially whenever they
wanted (or to be less absolute, 90% of women), whereas men wanted it but found
it unattainable (or, again, say, 90% of men). So I always figure if women
aren't, it's because they don't want to and if men aren't, it's because women
don't want to.

~~~
choot
It might be easier to get sex for a woman but while having sex you need
security/trust which she might not get from everyone.

If all you want is sex as a man, there are also prostitutes and escort
services. But yea, they might not be available everywhere.

Sex is easily available in market.

------
choot
I am a psychologist.

This is based on my high tech dating experience of dating many people.

1\. Perfect looking people have insecurity because they've six pack abs but
their penis size isn't as big as the pornstar they saw last night.

These people don't wanna show anyone their nude body.

It's all time high because of Instagram models.

Even the people who look 9/10 feel insecure because of Instagram.

A person looking 9/10 when coupled with makeup, professionals photography,
Photoshop, look out of the world.

2\. STD/STI awareness is all time high. People don't wanna live with HIV/AIDS

Remember the news stories where guys would secretly remove the condom and go
bareback without their partners knowing? Yes, people are afraid now.

3\. Cameras everywhere. No one wants to be recorded while having sex and next
day leaked to web just because they decided to breakup and someome got mad.

Taking it upto to social network and threatening with your follower count is a
real thing!

Felt even a little bit of injustice? No worries, let the world decide who is
wrong and post all photos, videos, communications and the smear campaign
starts.

4\. They are preparing for professional life and yes it's getting tougher.
People have little money left after all neccessaties in life and no time.

5\. Romantic interests don't stay around for long if they don't get sex from
you by 2nd or 3rd date. So lots of people who wait for some special connection
before they jump in bed, don't really find anyone.

Back in time people spent months to years courting a romantic interest before
getting in bed. But now, people show interest for few days and if they don't
get what they want, they are off to Tinder to look for someone who is more
willing to have sex fast.

6\. You need to be genetically gifted.

Used studio quality photos on Tinder with makeup on and Photoshop. Got bunch
of folks interested? They ask you to snap your photo or they'll block you. You
quickly comply but guess what, you aren't genetically gifted so you aren't
handsome/pretty as they thought. You got ghosted.

After a while you get pissed off by being treated like this and stop looking
for anything related to love/sex.

Who wants to go through this humiliation again?

No one sees anything outside your face and body. People are comparing numbers
against numbers. Personality will get a chance after you pass their aesthetic
and number filters.

7\. Sleeping with executives/managers is more rewarding so why sleep with same
kind of people?

There is lots of sexual harrasment at companies. People either shutoff their
sexual desires or sleep with executives to get ahead in their professional
life. Now, this executives isn't in same age group so less young people get to
have sex as a result.

8\. Internet expanded the dating pool. Now, the people who want to have lots
of sex can easily find another person with similar libido. This effectively
decreases the number of people who will get to have sex with this person
possessing high libido

9\. People aren't perfect. But now, if you make a mistake in real life,
someone who ask about your mistake on reddit and someone's else will label you
as asshole or something then you are ghosted.

Edit: Not sure why my personal experience is being downvoted.

~~~
craftyguy
Actually, the article covers a number of potential causes for the observed
behaviors. Absolutely none of them are the weird things you have listed here.

Also, is it me or are the top comments here on HN for this post exceptionally
terrible..

~~~
geezerjay
> Absolutely none of them are the weird things you have listed here.

Those weird things are also known as real life.

~~~
craftyguy
I believe the correct term is 'anectdata.' The article uses a study with many
participants to try to explain it, while this comment does not.

~~~
choot
Sure, it's my experience.

I am a psychologist. Take a look at my comment history.

About the study, it just asks people. Do you expect people to be truthful?

You should consider asking people if they'll do something amoral if you offer
them money, also tell them you are doing this for a study.

And you'll see majority of people will answer, NO.

But in realife, you can pay people to do ammoral things and lot many people
will be willing to accept it.

In some cases, they'll need a long term connection with you before they take
your offer.

Study isn't necessarily always more accurate. Specially, if it's about self
reported data regarding humans on subjective matters.

You can ask someone, how many times they had sex.

You might get an accurate answer. But you can't expect accurate answer when
you ask them, why aren't they having more sex. Most people don't have
introspection ability to accurately identify their real reasons. This is why
you need a pyscologist which is what I am.

~~~
sterlind
For a psychologist, you've easily suckered yourself into a common cognitive
bias: appeal to authority. (and likely Dunning-Kruger)

You've presented only anecdata, then incessantly restated your credentials to
shroud them in authority. But there are a lot of psychologists, and a decent
proportion of those are crackpots. How can I trust you're not a crackpot?

~~~
choot
The article also uses "this is a study".

So I decided to use "this is a psycologist".

Both of which are factually correct. If it makes, it appeal to authority in my
case then it's equally applicable to the study defined in the article.

See, i am not presenting here any groundbreaking theory or refuting anything
stated in the article but merely stating my experience.

How can it make me a crackpot?

~~~
harshalizee
lol, that's not how this works. You and a peer reviewed study do not share the
same kind of legitimacy and definetely not equally applicable. Yours is, at
best an opinion. The fact that as a 'pyscologist' (that's not how you spell it
by the way), you can't see the difference makes it look like you're proving
his point.

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hiven
Speak for yourself!

