
Report: WeWork expected to cut 500 tech roles - respinal
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/08/wework-layoffs-2/
======
youeseh
Say you own a co-working space. You probably should have some way to let:

\- People book conference rooms.

\- Let people check in and check out.

\- Let people book hot desks.

\- Manage access for members, hot desks, event participants etc.

\- Lots of other stuff.

At some point, the off the shelf software is no good, especially if you're
looking to... build a single experience around the world for lots and lots of
office buildings under your management! The software will have a lot of other
admin and reporting doodads. Especially if you're trying to turn your office
company into an everything company. Then the scope goes way up.

You might even start thinking about managing _everything_ because you're a
control freak... stuff like central air con control and energy use analytics
across all properties... I'm just throwing stuff out there, I've never worked
for WeWork.

Does this justify hundreds of engineers? It is so easy to hire more people
when you have a massive war chest. Projects begin to justify themselves
because you'll need them "soon enough". And if the founder pulls it off, then
they're a genius! Or not.

~~~
paxys
It's a classic case of hire engineers first and figure out problems to solve
later. This works great if the company already has a massive revenue stream
(Google, Facebook etc.) so the engineers can just mess around and once in a
while come up with something great. For a company losing $2B+ a year, not so
much.

Once WeWork solved its core engineering problems (bookings), engineering job
descriptions got more and more abstract - "build the operating system for the
workspace", "bridge the gap between physical and digital", "create a sense of
community", "humanize through technology" (all copied directly from their
engineering website), so it's clear that they are paying thousands of
engineers to do nothing.

I know for a fact that they have large data and machine learning teams spread
across SF, NYC, Tel Aviv, Shanghai and maybe more that collect and analyze
data from all their operations - few hundred offices and few hundred thousand
members. At this scale there is zero reason not to use off-the-shelf products
(or pay one of the dozens of companies out there that specialize in this), but
they decided to custom build all the infra in-house from scratch.

~~~
ethbro
_> I know for a fact that they have large data and machine learning teams
spread across SF, NYC, Tel Aviv, Shanghai and maybe more_

That's going to be an awkward presentation to management when they present
their revenue forecasts under different economic scenarios...

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cagenut
I kinda wish there was a job for like, DevOps Hatchet Men. I don't want to lay
people off, but after they're laid off I feel like I could probably delete
about a million dollars a year worth of their AWS bill right now and they'd
never even notice the stuff missing.

~~~
Merrill
I sort of did that for a while. The differences between what management thinks
they have, what is actually running, what data centers are charging back, what
licenses are being invoiced, what finance is depreciating, and what is
actually needed for operations can be astonishingly large.

~~~
steve_adams_86
I just took on a project that uses micro service style architecture (8
services total) and runs on AWS, has no customers, and costs more per month
than I've seen very high revenue projects spend in over 6 months for hosting.
I can't imagine how bad it would be with older projects with more cruft.

------
kunle
I saw folks do this for Buzzfeed layoffs and Uber layoffs a while back, and I
think it was helpful (context here : [https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-uber-
employee-has-created...](https://www.businessinsider.com/ex-uber-employee-has-
created-spreadsheet-of-laid-off-staffers-2019-8))

If you're affected by the WeWork layoffs and looking for a new role, fill this
out:
[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdx4TOVN7AdgvyAZGbq...](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdx4TOVN7AdgvyAZGbquEV7gd4Ok5pJcTAtBXgPWY3sPe0ufg/viewform?usp=sf_link)

If you're interested in recruiting ex-WeWork folks, you can look them up here:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14CAtBsn3ZTL59tNMVbew...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14CAtBsn3ZTL59tNMVbew2AlAh_mzPaSL5wOm4Sh8FD0/edit#gid=1753458875)

~~~
dvtrn
FYI, may want to take a gander at "WeWork Role", whatever your options are
didn't save and just lists 'option 1'.

~~~
kunle
Thx. Fixed.

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archeantus
If you’ve been inside of a WeWork office, there is a pretty advanced process
in place for checking in and alerting different people about you being there.
It felt a bit over-engineered when I went there, but I suppose that is the
kind of stuff these “tech roles” worked on.

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ulfw
What do five HUNDRED people in tech do at an office rental company?

~~~
spectramax
Without meaning any offense to anyone, I am also genuinely curious how is a
company such as Twitter have so many employees? Outsiders like myself know
what goes into running GE or Tesla (and is easy to understand), but I would
really appreciate someone from silicon valley enlighten about various needs
for a company such as Twitter (or WeWork, etc.); what really goes on inside
the doors, how are teams organized, what are some of the most challenging
problems?

If I were running Twitter, I would freeze the feature creep, have a robust
security and site-reliability team, perhaps make small improvements to UI/UX
by eliminating friction/impedance. Similar to how Craigslist and surprisingly
how Ebay is today - it is pretty much the same experience as 2008, I vividly
remember. Instead, engineering resources can be channeled to new ventures (or
augmentation projects) for additional growth.

~~~
momokoko
Because at scale small changes can save or make a company more money than an
engineers salary.

Simply making a process 2% more efficient can save hundreds of thousands of
dollars a year. Or increasing advertising conversions by 1%. etc etc.

~~~
bob1029
Right, but system creation+enhancements can be made by a single engineer in a
large % of those cases. Overwhelmingly so if you already have a working live
system to start with and you are seeking incremental improvements (vs a full
rewrite).

There aren't many technical challenges I have encountered, when reduced to
their smallest functional dimensions, that couldn't be fundamentally addressed
by a single engineer. Obviously, efforts like writing an entire (practical)
operating system are impossible for a single engineer to accomplish, but even
then a single engineer could _lead_ the entire effort or massive parts of the
effort (e.g. the Linux kernel).

Conversely, I have seen far too many cases of "too many chefs in the kitchen"
when it comes to a software project. This is the end of the spectrum where you
end up stuck on Docker with a stochastic and otherwise insane architecture
that isn't even consistent within each product, much less across the entire
organization.

~~~
farisjarrah
Most of the time one competent 10x engineer could indeed build out all the
special features that a company needs. The problem is that one person
generally doesn't know all the best practices required of every problem
domain, so they may implement things poorly. Furthermore, the one dev thing
really doesn't scale up. As soon as your product gains any critical mass and
you have an outage then the platform is hosed because no one knows how to fix
anything except MAYBE that one engineer who implemented all the special
features.

~~~
B_Throwaway
There are no systems running Windows 10X in production yet.

~~~
dtparr
Can't tell if you're trolling, so in case you've confused others.

[http://svdictionary.com/words/10x-engineer](http://svdictionary.com/words/10x-engineer)

------
softwaredoug
There IS a market for a WeWork like service.

A WeWork-like model has appeal to someone like me that would love good coffee
and an office/hoteling space! Especially as I travel a lot and sometimes want
a reliable private workspace in an arbitrary city. Coffee shops frankly don’t
cut it for working/meeting with people all day.

Also there’s often a need for meeting spaces in arbitrary cities. my company
would have used an airBNB style conference room scheduling solution half a
dozen times last year.

All to say there’s at least a potential customer base here. Whether it’s a
profitable business model, well, maybe :)

~~~
tempsy
I feel like a missed opportunity for WeWork was a kitchen. AFAIK none of them
sell food for purchase. Why not get all the workweek lunch revenue?

~~~
dvtrn
If my friend who owns real estate can be used as an anecdotal bulletpoint: At
the pub last night he told me how he and numerous other property owners here
in Chicago have people who are trying to start their own catering/dinner party
businesses and will rent out airbnb's with especially nice/large kitchens to
do all of their food prep over a couple of days, check out and leave. A couple
of them graduated to being able to sign leases on their own commercial
kitchens once their respective client bases grew large enough.

At first, he said he was confused why the kitchen of all places was constantly
the most time-costly area of his properties to clean. Then one of the renters
let him know what was going on.

Now _there 's_ an opportunity.

~~~
tempsy
Yes, I mean that is what Travis Kalanick is doing with his new company
Cloudkitchens

~~~
dvtrn
Oh you gotta be kidding, really?

Edit: Googled it, You are NOT kidding wow. On the one hand, it's a great idea.
On the other hand _Cloud_ Kitchens?

I grok that, but...is the target market here DevOps people who make a great
alfredo on the side?

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codingslave
Literally last week I got an email from WeWork looking for a Senior Data
Engineer with "High Comp". I never understand these companies, aggressively
hiring before they lay everyone off

~~~
jrockway
I think it will cause a lot of cognitive dissonance if you treat large
companies like you'd treat a single person. Imagine there is one person in
charge of everything; it would be super weird if they bring you in for an
interview on the day they're firing everyone else. But that's not how these
large companies work; one person made the hire someone and some other person
that's never met the first person made the decision to lay everyone off. You
have to look at it like a distributed eventually-consistent database. In that
context, everything should make sense; there was a netsplit and the consensus
algorithm produced a different state in each cluster.

(There's a reason why we try not to design database like that. Perhaps there
is a management lesson in there somewhere.)

~~~
speby
This ... it is incredibly easy to trap yourself into thinking large companies
are even aware of everything they're doing in every little niche and nuance
pocket of their operations. In many cases, there can be a growth area that had
job requisitions approved for a high-growth investment in a small part of the
company while the entire rest of the company experiences a massive layoff.
This can occur both with central knowledge of the hiring in that small pocket
of the company or without. Either way, the effect is the same and so is the
reaction ... it just looks weird.

------
weare138
But I was told WeWork is a tech company. Repeatedly.

~~~
xiphias2
I don't know who told you that, but Adam didn't: according to him WeWork is a
community company, a new category.

------
tempsy
This article on Masa from January gives some insight on what engineers were
doing: [https://www.fastcompany.com/90285552/the-most-powerful-
perso...](https://www.fastcompany.com/90285552/the-most-powerful-person-in-
silicon-valley)

tl;dr They used sensors to determine that people drink coffee in the morning
and the line was long. They also used sensors to determine that small groups
of people were booking large conference rooms so they made more small
conference rooms.

Relevant part:

 _WeWork’s potential lies in what might happen when you apply AI to the
environment where most of us spend the majority of our waking hours. I head
down one floor to meet Mark Tanner, a WeWork product manager, who shows me a
proprietary software system that the company has built to manage the 335
locations it now operates around the world. He starts by pulling up an aerial
view of the WeWork floor I had just visited. My movements, from the moment I
stepped off the elevator, have been monitored and captured by a sophisticated
system of sensors that live under tables, above couches, and so forth. It’s
part of a pilot that WeWork is testing to explore how people move through
their workday. The machines pick up all kinds of details, which WeWork then
uses to adjust everything from design to hiring. For example, sensors
installed near this office’s main-floor self-serve coffee station helped
WeWork discern that the morning lines were too long, so they added a barista.
The larger conference rooms rarely got filled to capacity–often just two or
three people would use rooms designed for 20–so the company is refashioning
some spaces for smaller groups. (WeWork executives assure me that “the sensors
do not capture personal identifiable information.”)_

~~~
jrvarela56
This is it. A friend who worked in the analytics team mentioned how everything
is measured and taken into account when renovating and buying new buildings.
Things like exposure to sunlight, time spent at a desk, etc. These analytics
are offered to FB/Amazon/big-co along with office as a service.

As someone else mentioned, cool/potentially profitable company. Just not worth
40B.

~~~
tempsy
Do you think so? I posted this mostly as a joke.

The idea that this was anything close to being "AI" is a bit silly. The
insight that there were long lines for coffee in the morning and small groups
were taking large conference rooms are simple observations that one person
could've made and written a report about.

~~~
joejerryronnie
There should totally be a cottage industry of AI snakeoil salesmen that travel
the valley in colorful wagons claiming to provide cure-all data insight tonic.

------
downrightmike
This is why they are a pretend tech company. Tech roles are the company
otherwise. This is part of the likely 2,000/15,000.

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autotune
A WeWork recruiter recently sent me a SRE job role and I just laughed.

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jfb
Wait, they have _more than 500_ tech roles? For a shitty office space leasing
company?

~~~
gbjw
1500 tech employees (out of 15000 total).

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egdod
Why does wework even have tech roles?

~~~
autotune
Infrastructure and software are hard.

~~~
nopriorarrests
What hard problems related to software and infrastructure WeWork was solving?
I can not imagine a single one. Handling check-ins? Counting number of beers
consumed?

~~~
illuminati1911
"Counting number of beers consumed?"

This spring I talked to their software engineering manager/lead at a tech
meetup in Shanghai (the guy was from SF) and he said that they plan to hire
tens of engineers just to analyze their beer consumption data to optimize
supply.

~~~
nopriorarrests
This should be top level comment.

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codesushi42
They may as well just close down now.

The morale there must be terrible. Anyone good who survives the cuts will GTFO
to greener pastures.

Anyone who stays or anyone desperate enough to join will be terrible.

Good bye We, consider this my eulogy, we hardly knew ye, and may you rest in
peepee.

