
DHS proposes to repeal Work Authorization to Spouses(H4) of H1B visa holders - nikhilalmeida
https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201710&RIN=1615-AC15
======
product50
This is a really cruel move. It honestly only affects a small population of
spouses from Indian and Chinese immigrants who have to wait a long time for
their green card application to go through (due to per country quotas). The
reason why spouses of H1-B immigrants can't find jobs on their own, even when
qualified, is because of H1 quotas which fill on the first day of application
- and, if they aren't lucky to get it, they are just stuck. Also very few
companies want to wait for 6+ months from the time the job has been accepted
to when the candidate starts given H1 application needs to be filed on April
1st while the person can only start working on October 1st (if they are lucky
to make through the quota). H4 EAD provided a way for them to be employed and
do something with their life. With this repeal, that option will be taken
away.

On the other hand, Trump is doing a few things to alleviate the situation:

1\. He will likely strike down hard against Indian IT companies which take
more than half of H1 visa quotas. That should help spouses, who are qualified,
to have a better shot at getting an H1.

2\. He is proposing a merit based GC going forward vs. the current system
where there are country quotas and where family applications take priority.

Both these will help. However, I would have liked to see these happening first
vs. H4-EAD taken away.

~~~
briandear
Let’s get something straight: H1B is not an immigrant visa. It’s a temporary
work visa. So the idea of “H1B Immigrants” is wrong and represents an abuse of
the program. Someone who intends to immigrate ought not be using the H1B.

Really there should be no path to a green card for H1Bs.. that is against the
purpose of that visa. Get an EB3 if you intend to immigrate.

~~~
loeber
You say "let's get something straight" but follow up with blatant
misinformation.

Directly from wikipedia:

"Even though the H-1B visa is a non-immigrant visa, it is one of the few
temporary visa categories recognized as dual intent, meaning an H-1B holder
can have legal immigration intent (apply for and obtain the green card) while
still a holder of the H-1B visa. Effectively, the requirement to maintain a
foreign address for this non-immigrant classification was removed in the
Immigration Act of 1990."

------
somberi
[https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21716630-not-
go...](https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21716630-not-good-
argument-against-them-h-1b-visas-do-mainly-go-indian-outsourcing)

For engineers like me who went to the US in the mid-90s on H1B, spouses were
not allowed to work. The US government changed it, to be in sync with other
countries that allowed American employees' spouses work in the host countries.

This new move will have an effect on the spouses of American workers abroad,
since host countries will retaliate as a mark of protest.

------
nopinsight
If enacted, more R&D tech centers might pop up in other countries, esp Canada.
The demand for high-level global tech talent is strong enough that most of
them would not put up with much and companies will be forced to adapt.

~~~
cylinder
High level global talent does not make up the bulk of H1B.

~~~
jopsen
But H1B might make up a significant bulk of the high level talent...

------
sawmurai
Well, just in case you might need this soon ... Switzerland ist beautiful!

[https://www.jobs.ch/en/vacancies/information-technology-
tele...](https://www.jobs.ch/en/vacancies/information-technology-telecom/)

~~~
jmnicolas
If you can speak German that is ...

~~~
acoster
There are French and Italian speaking regions too (well, there's Romansh, but
that's tiny).

But in all seriousness, in the main cities you can get by speaking English.

~~~
noncoml
Get by as in find a job without speaking a word of French or German?

------
panic
The DHS as an organization should be disbanded. It barely made sense when it
was founded after 9/11, but now it's actively working against America's
interests. Our borders and immigration rules are so unpleasant, people would
rather work in other countries than deal with them even a few times a year.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Given that wages are a function of supply and demand, and given that wages
have been stagnant for Americans since the 70's, why is having tighter
constraints on the supply of labor a bad thing?

Wouldn't this mean that Americans would have higher wages? Wouldn't a tight
labor market incentivize investment in the growth of our own workers instead
of working to maximize profits for corporations that already have historic
profits by deleveraging workers?

~~~
panic
Well, yes, based on a simple supply-and-demand model, that is what we'd expect
to see. It's not what we're seeing in practice, though. We keep making
immigration harder and harder, and it doesn't seem to be doing much to fix our
economy -- certainly not enough to justify the real human cost.

------
mbroncano
Why aren't they allowed to work in the first place? L2 visas are, and they're
quite similar in intent.

~~~
cylinder
L1 is limited to managers, executives or specialized knowledge workers. It's
not a low bar.

~~~
xyzzyz
Most software engineers would qualify for L1. One of the other requirements of
L1 is that you need to spend a year in the company office outside of the US.
During that year, you will learn some of the internal processes and technology
used inside the company, which then will count as specialized knowledge.

------
d--b
Oh man, I went through the H1B/H4 in 2010 and my wife was unable to work. That
was a pain in the ass...

~~~
walshemj
This will effect the really high level very high skill immigrants who tend to
have highly qualified partners who might well stop their partner from taking a
job in the USA.

I know of one CTO who came back to UK from SV because of pressure from his
wife

------
thisisit
> DHS anticipates that there would be two primary impacts that DHS can
> estimate: the cost-savings accruing to forgone future filings by H-4
> spouses, and labor turnover costs that employers of H-4 workers could incur.

Does anyone know what cost savings are they talking about?

~~~
duskwuff
Cost savings by the DHS by not having to process H4 applications.

~~~
thisisit
How does DHS save money by not processing these visas? Additionally what about
the second cost saving?

~~~
duskwuff
Processing any kind of paperwork takes time and costs money. If the
applications are no longer accepted, those costs no longer exist.

The second impact is an _increase_ in costs, not a savings. It's referring to
the fact that companies who currently have H4 employees will lose those
employees, and will incur costs in replacing them.

------
darkdreams
The E-3 visa (meant for Australians) doesn't have any work restrictions on
spouses. Why isn't the administration targeting those visas/ead if this is
indeed about "Hire American and buy American" ?

~~~
falsedan
The quota for E-3s is 10,000/year, it gets about 30% subscribed (with new
applications, renewals aren't capped), and it's providing the free and open
movement of labour that the AU-US FTA requires.

but also: white Australians don't trigger racist reactions & clamping down on
all Australian E-3 immigrants would not be as effect of a dogwhistle.

~~~
hiram112
Is it really that Americans are just not racist against Australian workers ,
but are racist towards brown people on work visas?

Or could it be something else?

Maybe Americans don't tend to see their whole IT and Dev departments being
filled with Australians, who are NOT willing to work in high COL areas on $60k
year, share apartments and a car among 6 adults, and work 60 hours a week
since the money they're saving won't buy them squat once home in Australia.

This is not true for Indians and others from low wage nations.

Most Americans aren't stupid. They know that businesses here use these visas
to push down wages and working conditions. Considering this, I think Americans
have been pretty damn friendly to most foreign workers for quite some time.

But eventually, even the most friendly of societies is going to say enough is
enough.

~~~
falsedan
> _Is it really that Americans are just not racist against Australian workers
> , but are racist towards brown people on work visas?_

The dogwhistle is signaling to racists exactly this: that removing the ability
for spouses on H4 visas to get EAD will reduce immigration from non-white
countries. So's your comment.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
The issue isn't that the immigrants are coming from a non-white country. The
issue is that they are coming from a _poor_ country with poor labor laws, and
that they're displacing American workers in the process. Australia and other
countries have similar quality of life as the US, thus immigration doesn't
deleverage American workers like it does with poor countries.

You injecting race into the conversation is racist itself, and does nothing to
help advance the conversation.

~~~
falsedan
All I’m talking about is the dogwhistle, which your comment also has.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
This is like saying that socialized healthcare is a dogwhistle for communism.
It's a modified form of a slippery slope fallacy, suggesting that any movement
in one direction will cause an extreme movement in that direction[1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope)

~~~
falsedan
No it’s not. Calls for socialised healthcare are not a coded expression
calling for the overthrowing of our capitalist overlord via violent
revolution. I know it’s tricky because these look similar but please accept
that this is a social problem, not a logic problem, and thus traditional
engineering argument techniques are completely useless.

------
markruno
I have done masters in US and I am on h1b visa I get 30k$ PA working as
developer in java technology and my spouse on h4 visa gets 40k $ PA .If h4
visa is revoked is it better to apply for h1b visa or f1 visa.

------
rvelag
Good to hear to revoke H4 EAD. Make it ASAP. At least prioritize for Talented
one's. Not for these douchebag H4 EADs. Thank you Trump.

------
grad_ml
Message is loud and clear. No Indians are welcome. Now indians on h1b need to
figure out, if they will migrate to Canada with skills they have, will they
start business in India. Govt have no intentions of improving GC process. Govt
want to stop legal immigration under different disguises. I don't know how
many people are aware that it takes 3-4 years to get I-120, after some one
starts job on H1b. That means all H1b's, who have been here for 3+ years need
to go back or become poor in USA.

------
beedogs
America's government is as cruel as it can possibly be lately. This is just
punitive and disgusting.

~~~
hcknwscommenter
It is both punitive and disgusting, and it benefits no one.

~~~
hiram112
Except for the US citizens who now might have a job or even a bit of wage
growth after 30 years of non-stop immigration from mostly low wage countries,
with the ensuing wage arbitrage used by US businesses.

~~~
craftyguy
You are completely wrong if you think no US citizen has gotten a job or not
experienced wage growth in the last 30 years.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Individuals may do better than average, but the trend in the US has been a
widening gap between the upper class and everyone else combined with stagnant
wages[1]. This has been due to many reasons like outsourcing, (illegal)
immigration, automation, dissolution of anti-trust legislation, and the trend
away from unionization in most industries.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-
class_squeeze](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-class_squeeze)

------
c2h5oh
That means I'll be refusing all non-remote US job offers without reading.

~~~
softawre
Not trying to be rude but, isn't this their goal?

------
NTDF9
First, they put everyone who are not like them at a disadvantage

\- Poor funding for some school districts

\- Lack of accessible transportation options for folks in far flung areas

\- Lack of funding for individuals to go to college/expensive education

\- In this case, damaging careers, families and not letting people work at
all, akin to slavery.

Then, they come out and say:

\- Why don't you work hard?

\- Why don't you get a job?

\- Why don't you save money?

\- Why aren't you more like us?

Why aren't they more like you? Because you don't let them be like you.

America is cruel!

~~~
cylinder
If this was such a cruel experience, the workers wouldn't be here and the H1B
wouldn't be over subscribed.

~~~
NTDF9
Do you live in chronological time?

The rights were given to them, that's when a lot of spouses gave up their
careers elsewhere to build a family life here.

Now, like a video game, the rights are being yanked away. What are they
supposed to do? Leave kids here and go back try to rebuild a life without
family? Take everyone with them and try to readjust?

Imagine being lured into college with funding and after 2 years, they just
yank that funding away, leaving you hapless. What do you do then?

