
General Motors starts taking orders for its electric bicycle - prostoalex
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/14/general-motors-starts-taking-orders-for-its-electric-bicycle.html
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ehnto
I can't help but feel as though they ignored the huge range of existing
examples of electric bicycles and instead assumed they were entering a
greenfields market.

They are positioned very poorly. It's an unattractive folding bike that
doesn't fold and costs too much. People who buy that style of bike do it
because it folds, which is also the reason why it compromises on tire size and
aesthetics. Anyone wanting an e-bike in that price range has a lot of much
more interesting and practical bikes to choose from.

~~~
perfmode
The Uni Moke is a bike that GM should pay close attention to:

[https://urbandrivestyle.com/products/unimoke-urban-utlity-
el...](https://urbandrivestyle.com/products/unimoke-urban-utlity-electric-
bike)

~~~
unmole
I'm all for putting function before form but man is that bike ugly! It looks
like something a bunch of first year mechanical engineering students slapped
together.

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baybal2
Chinese managed to achieve parity with 50cc mopeds in mass market mopeds, the
plank now has to go to 150cc. Once 150cc is taken, the whole of South East
Asia will fall for it.

China for example managed to switch to electric motorcycles long before
gasoline motorcycles were banned in big cities. People chose electric moped
over gas powered ones for their maintenance free nature, even when switch
meant a downgrade.

More importantly, Chinese mopeds with smaller engines were borderline
undrivable, and in that category, going electric was an actual upgrade.

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_Microft
There are very few electric bikes or pedelecs that don't look awful.

Here's a great counter-example, though:
[https://www.coboc.biz/en/products/one-
soho/](https://www.coboc.biz/en/products/one-soho/)

~~~
Fiaxhs
Wow they're beautiful !

I also like (and own a)
[https://www.vanmoof.com/en_us/](https://www.vanmoof.com/en_us/)

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RickJWagner
$3200 - $3800 for an electric bicycle?

That seems crazy expensive to me. Can someone in EMEA explain if it seems
worth the cost?

~~~
mdasen
First, I think this bike is likely a little overpriced. Right now, you can get
a good mid-drive e-bike with a reasonable battery for low $2k. However, I'm
guessing that $2k also seems expensive to you (frankly, it does to me as well,
but more on that later). Yamaha has a new ebike (the CrossCore) which I think
is probably a better value at $2,399.

I think a lot of people have that reaction to ebike (and regular bicycle)
pricing at first. It's important to remember that decent entry-level bikes
really start around $500. Many people have a conception in their head of
something from Target or Walmart that's very low quality and doesn't hold up
well. You might also want to get some better components given that you're
adding a motor and battery to it so the bike might really start at $700 or
$800. The Yamaha has Shimano Sora components which you probably don't tend to
find on regular bikes below $800. So, there's a regular bike starting point
right there. Often times you want better tires because you'll be riding faster
than regular bikes tend to get ridden, a better chain because you'll be
putting more stress on it, etc. Often these bikes come with lights that add to
the cost. It's also important to remember that weight plays a big role in
bikes while cars can pile on weight without as much concern.

Most importantly, they come with a motor and battery pack. The battery pack
can be a very expensive part of the bike, often costing $700+. Add the motor
into the mix and it's easy to see how one can break $2k.

However, there are certainly ebikes that can be had for cheaper. Rad Power
offers options for $1,500 that are quite good. They don't have quite as much
range and they're rear-drive rather than mid-drive bikes, but they're quite
good.

It's also important to remember that we're kinda in the infancy of ebikes.
Bosch just introduced new motors aimed at lowering the entry-level price point
of mid-drive bikes. Yamaha is just entering the market now. GM is just
entering the market now. Prices will likely come down a bit as they become
more popular and as companies put more investment into them.

Also, ebikes are often subject to import taxes and, in Europe, VAT included in
the quoted price. Trump's trade spat with China raised the price of ebikes in
the US by hundreds of dollars in many cases. In fact, the tariff was going to
be 25% which really shook the ebike industry
([https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/rad-pricing-
returns](https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/rad-pricing-returns)). The prices
in the article might be including VAT which is a bit unfair to compare to
American prices. As they noted, the bike will be cheaper in Germany which
indicates that VAT is likely in play. It's easy to see how VAT and tariffs
might have a large impact of 20-40%.

To close, even at $3k, an ebike can be an awesome purchase. I live in a city
where parking is expensive and a car won't get you to your destination at more
than 20MPH. Heck, the speed limit in the city is 25MPH. So, an ebike becomes a
car and even public transit replacement. With more range, flexibility (on your
schedule, to exactly where you want to go), and speed than public transit, an
ebike can be amazing. Parking at my work costs $250/mo for cars or $3,000 per
year. Insurance on that car would probably be another $1,000+. Let's assume a
$20,000 car that needs replacing every decade. Another $2,000/year.

If you live 10 miles from work and your option is to drive and sit in
miserable traffic and pay $6,000/year for that, an ebike starts to look pretty
awesome. You get exercise and stimulation while the assist is there to handle
any fatigue - and these bikes can really provide assist to the point that you
don't have to worry about fatigue.

Heck, even if you're replacing public transit, an ebike can be reasonable. A
transit pass might cost $100/mo which becomes $1,200/year. After two years,
you've spent the cost of a Yamaha CrossCore. After 15 months, you've spent the
cost of a Rad Power Rad City. You get to go where you want, when you want,
with more speed than a car or public transit can offer. Again, that's going to
depend on your city and its traffic.

Yes, the bike "seems expensive". Bikes seem expensive to me too (ebike or even
regular). C'mon, it's just a bike? Wheels, pedals, chain. $500-800 for that?
Heck, I have enthusiast friends that spend several thousand on a regular bike.
However, cars can have some huge costs and I think a lot of people are pretty
miserable in traffic - especially as traffic continues to get worse in our
cities.

Plus, they're amazing for the environment. 1kWh of electricity can get you 100
miles of range - and more if you're putting in decent effort. 1kWh of
electricity in an electric car can get you 4 miles. Plus, parking has a huge
environmental cost. Parking garages use a lot of steel and concrete which are
terrible for climate change. Surface parking means mowing down trees and
turning open space into an asphalt wasteland. Bike parking takes up space, but
not nearly as much space and it's often space that can be less impactful on
the environment around it because bikes can be lifted and maneuvered in ways a
car can't be.

It certainly depends on where you live, but if you find yourself driving 2-8
miles around the city a lot, a bike lets you avoid traffic and parking hassles
and an ebike lets you do that faster and with less physical effort - they open
up biking to more and more people.

~~~
baybal2
> It's also important to remember that we're kinda in the infancy of ebikes.
> Bosch just introduced new motors aimed at lowering the entry-level price
> point of mid-drive bikes. Yamaha is just entering the market now. GM is just
> entering the market now. Prices will likely come down a bit as they become
> more popular and as companies put more investment into them.

Yamaha been in electric bikes, and mopeds for an eternity. When it comes to
electric 50cc analogues, Chinese makers steamroll all competition.

Imho, nobody can take on Yamaha in electric 150cc analogue market (Yamaha is
the king in 150cc). Yamaha will simply take its existing mopeds and put
electric engines into them. A very good 150cc will make you around 10
horsepowers. That's something you can easily achieve with a very light hub
motor.

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username223
> With ride-hailing companies and similar businesses spreading, some industry
> watchers wonder whether broad swaths of future generations will even
> consider car ownership at all.

So, a future where most of the people with extractable value only use robot
taxis and e-scooters.

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0xBA5ED
I'm curious why there aren't more "nontraditional" transportation options
somewhere between a full-size car and a bicycle. I'd love a small/efficient
single-seat vehicle with temp-controlled cabin for under $5000.

~~~
abyssin
The Renault Twizy fits your description more or less:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy).

~~~
0xBA5ED
Ah, very cool. Sadly, it's Europe only and I live in the US. Looking at
related links, it seems all the best options are Europe only.

~~~
Fiaxhs
Except for the temp controlled cabin

> The Twizy may be winterized with winter tires and adding flexi side windows
> to enclose the cabin. Heating would be provided by plugging in electric
> blankets to keep the driver warm

The twizy is horrible for that.

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nradov
Is GM actually building these bikes or are they just slapping a label on an
OEM product?

~~~
baybal2
I will be super surprised if it's not the later. GM can't make toasters
themselves these days.

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Adamantcheese
It looks like a horrible bike if you have to actually pedal it, the wheels are
tiny! You might as well get a moped or something instead of that, which would
stick out like a sore thumb and be a good target for thieves. Also where do
you lock it up if you have to? Or do you just fold it up and take it inside?
For some reason it doesn't seem like it was made by a person who's ever ridden
a bike.

~~~
apsec112
Foldable ebikes have to have small wheels, so they can be carried easily when
folded up. For a non-folding bike, I think they're just being dumb.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
Smaller wheels are stronger and less likely to go out of true with abuse. That
translates into fewer support issues.

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yazr
This GM bike is hilariously over priced.

My city is swapped with these things, at half the price, with cheap and
plentiful corner repair shops.

I was once shown a Chinese B2B site, with a dashboard mix-n-match for various
e-bike configurations. $500-$1500/bike wholesale price range.

If someone knows of anything like this, please post the URL.

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gnicholas
Are there any specs on this? Seems expensive, unless the specs are amazing.

