
Efficacy of elderberry extract for treatment of influenza a and B virus (2004) - SQL2219
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080016
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entwife
"Elderberry Supplementation Reduces Cold Duration and Symptoms in Air-
Travellers: A Randomized, Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Clinical Trial"

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4848651/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4848651/)

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DoofusOfDeath
There's an old joke:

Q: Does chicken soup _actually_ help people recover from colds more quickly?

A: It can't hoit! [ed: "hoit" = the word "hurt" with a strong
regional/cultural accent applied. For some reason it's part of the joke.]

I wonder if it's sensible to apply similar reasoning to traditional remedies
such as elderberries, when (a) we have at weak evidence supporting their
efficacy, and (b) no reason to think they're harmful.

~~~
IntronExon
The official guidance regarding Vit C supplements is just that; they’re cheap
and harmless, so why not?

~~~
rabboRubble
One of the possible contributing factors to the 1918 influence death rate was
the use of aspirin to treat patients. It was put under the “can’t hurt”
bucket.

While something harmless like a food product seems like a harmless enough
recommendation, remember aspirin is a chemical equivalent to white willow bark
tea.

Edit: a sample source for increased influence mortality with salicylate
therapy

[https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441)

~~~
IntronExon
I don’t think anyone with a medical degree thinks of aspirin as harmless. If
you have any issues with bleeding, it can kill you. Vit C is different, but
let me be clear that I’m not endorsing it. AFAIK there is no known toxicity
related to Vit C, it’s ubiquitous in most modern diets, and has no secondary
effects such as blood thinning.

Aspirin is often thought of as harmless by some, but it’s a powerful drug with
numerous effects. Vit C is just ascorbic acid.

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deagle50
I can anecdotally vouch for this. A friend told me about elderberry a few
years ago when I told him I had flu symptoms. I went to Whole Foods around 7pm
and bought the extract. Took a double dose with Vit C and D and tons of water
every 4-6 hours. One ibuprofen as needed to keep my temperature down. Woke up
the next day around noon and the flu was gone. Been using it ever since.

~~~
farseer
Did it work the next time around as well? I am curious to know.

~~~
deagle50
Every time I get achy and feverish I hit it hard and the symptoms go away in
24 hours or so. Seems to be working.

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farseer
The study is from 2004. If the claims are as described i.e. symptom relief 4
days earlier. This would be better efficacy than tamiflu.

~~~
jws
The duration of cough and days missed from work are not significantly
different in the two groups. The number that is improved with elderberry is a
self assessment score for a number of factors about how the patient feels.
Their congestion and mucus production got under control faster.

It’s worth mentioning that the study was commissioned by the company selling
the elderberry infused foods and syrups more than 10 years ago and notes in
its abstract that it needs to be replicated.

Found a PDF at:
[http://www.sambucol.co.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/sambucol...](http://www.sambucol.co.il/_Uploads/dbsAttachedFiles/sambucol_research2004_international_medical.pdf)

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mikeytown2
Not a drug so not a lot of money to be made long term. I’m really surprised
this even got funding to be studied. Spend money marketing something that
isn’t unique or patentable is usually a loosing game. For example if you
pitched this on shark tank you’d have no investors because it’s not
defendable.

~~~
thatcat
Finding a good shark tank pitch is not the purpose of academic research.

~~~
mikeytown2
Most research is funded by companies wanting to make money in the long run.
This is the point I was trying to get across; thanks for letting me clarify
this point :)

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glaugh
These things are always underresearched, but there's more evidence than just
this. For example:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11399518/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11399518/)

[https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ethan_Basch/publication...](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ethan_Basch/publication/259696401_An_Evidence-
Based_Systematic_Review_of_Elderberry_and_Elderflower_Sambucus_nigra_by_the_Natural_Standard_Research_Collaboration/links/02e7e534e9f25f02b4000000/An-
Evidence-Based-Systematic-Review-of-Elderberry-and-Elderflower-Sambucus-nigra-
by-the-Natural-Standard-Research-Collaboration.pdf)

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cpncrunch
Has it been replicated?

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UncleEntity
Maybe Monty Python was on to some lost knowledge with their "your mother was a
hamster and your father smelt of elderberries"?

Or not...

~~~
mar77i
So, did she spread the plague to everyone but your father?

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y0ssar1an
1\. single study

2\. from 2004

3\. small sample size (60 patients)

4\. flu symptoms self-reported by patients

5\. no proposed mechanism of action. how exactly does elderberry cure the flu?

and, oh yeah...

6\. most published medical research findings are false
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/)

7\. everyone please just get the flu vaccine!

~~~
6d6b73
Current flu vaccine is only 10-30% effective.. No thanks.

~~~
y0ssar1an
You are spreading FUD that's harmful to public health. The CDC has replied to
the 10% figure circulating in the media:
[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-
season-2017-2018.ht...](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-
season-2017-2018.htm)

The 2018 flu season is ongoing. How could there be any conclusive research
about vaccine effectiveness in the 2018 flu season when we're right in the
middle of it?

The CDC is unequivocal about getting vaccinated.

    
    
      Everyone 6 months of age and older should get a flu vaccine every season.

[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/consumer/vaccinations.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/consumer/vaccinations.htm)

~~~
6d6b73
10% number is from Australia. USA is not the only country in the world, you
know that right?

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JoeAltmaier
So many ways this could have gone wrong. The taste; the look; the mouth feel
could have given it away. People know they are using a placebo; they'll report
differently.

I'm imagining that elderberry extract is a commonly-used Norway thing, so the
test subjects would have been set up perfectly to identify the placebo?

~~~
jws
According to the study:

 _To make the study blind, the placebo syrup had an identical appearance and
taste and was supplied in the same type of bottles. The placebo syrup did not
contain the elderberry extract, but was otherwise identical. Both syrups were
produced and supplied by Razei Bar Ltd (Jerusalem, Israel)._

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Yeah yeah. And if you've been taking it all your life, that's all whistling in
the wind. No way is anything with flavor 'identical'.

