
Offshore Wind Farm to Power More Than One Million U.K. Homes - jseliger
http://www.wsj.com/articles/danish-utility-to-build-worlds-first-one-gigawatt-offshore-wind-farm-1454505216
======
smcl
Just sharing for anyone interested - the UK National Grid has a nice (if a
little antiquated looking) site which breaks down power generation by source
[http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk](http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk)

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ascorbic
That's actually a third party site, that uses the National Grid's SOAP(!) API
for the data.

~~~
smcl
Ohhh nice, I had no idea I never looked too closely at the domain before

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scorpioxy
Nice! Always good news when there's more investment in renewable energy
sources.

I only read the one in the guardian so it might be answered there but isn't
higher transmission loss another con for offshore wind farms? How do they deal
with that?

~~~
pjc50
It's only a few percent. Of more concern is transmission line _capacity_ ,
especially between Scotland and England. At the moment the biggest
concentration of coal fired power stations is roughly central in Yorkshire
(Drax, Ferrybridge etc: there is a point on the railway from which you can see
five of them). If we move to more offshore wind we'll need to reroute the
power lines.

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takasc2
From the article - wind power is projected to reach 30gw worldwide in 2019 -
for comparison nuclear power worldwide reached 300gw in the 1980's.

~~~
mikeyouse
I'm not sure what they're referencing there, but GWEC keeps better numbers and
we're well over 400GW installed worldwide by now:

[http://www.gwec.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Global-
Cumula...](http://www.gwec.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Global-Cumulative-
Installed-Wind-Capacity-1997-2014.jpg)

We're adding more than 50GW/year now, which should easily put us over the
amount of nameplate capacity nuclear installed worldwide. Within the next
decade, wind will surpass Nuclear in actual twh of generation as well.

If you assume nuclear is about 400GW installed worldwide and a 90% capacity
factor, then wind would only need 900GW installed to match output at a 40%
capacity factor. NREL just realeased data that shows potential capacity
factors of 60% on over 2 million acres in the US:

[http://apps2.eere.energy.gov/wind/windexchange/windmaps/reso...](http://apps2.eere.energy.gov/wind/windexchange/windmaps/resource_potential.asp)

Wind and solar are steadily eating world power generation.

~~~
barney54
Comparing wind and nuclear is not an apples-to-apples comparison. To make a
valid comparison, you would need to compare wind + some kind of back up such
as natural gas (or possibly some nuclear).

There is a premium for reliable sources of electricity generation since you
have to have reliable generation to avoid blackouts.

~~~
toomuchtodo
You make an excellent point.

Wind and solar can capture more $fiat per MWh if they purchase Tesla
stationary storage and can deliver firm dispatchability (that premium for
reliable generation you mention).

Natural gas will make a fine stopgap until we have enough battery storage.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispatchable_generation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispatchable_generation)

~~~
snowwindwaves
I am not aware of any market where generators are getting a premium for being
dispatchable. I would be very interested in knowing what the value is.

Certainly some markets have prices that vary through the day to give
generators the incentive to generate when power is needed most if they have
that flexibility.

~~~
pjc50
The UK system has a "capacity auction", separate from the spot price, which
covers dispatchable generation.

"Through the auction, government has procured 49.26GW of capacity at a
clearing price of £19.40kW" (second link). Note units are kW not MWh.

[http://www.nationalgridconnecting.com/keeping-the-lights-
on/](http://www.nationalgridconnecting.com/keeping-the-lights-on/)

[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-first-ever-
capacity-m...](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-first-ever-capacity-
market-auction-official-results-have-been-released-today)

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SixSigma
Lack of subsidy cited as reason that "Spain Installed No Wind Power for First
Time Since 80s in 2015"

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-26/spain-
inst...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-26/spain-installed-no-
wind-power-for-first-time-since-80s-in-2015)

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barney54
The title of the WSJ article is misleading. An offshore wind farm does not
power more than 1 million homes, unless you only want electricity when the
wind is blowing.

Offshore wind is one of the most expensive sources of electricity generation--
more expensive than every except solar thermal.
[https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm](https://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/electricity_generation.cfm)
Offshore wind is more than twice as expensive as onshore wind.

The fact that the U.K. is pushing offshore wind is one reason why the U.K's
electricity rates are much higher than in the U.S. The U.K.'s electricity
rates about about $0.22 per kwh [1] compared to an average of $0.13 in the
U.S. [2]

[1][http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/...](http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/File:Half-
yearly_electricity_and_gas_prices,_second_half_of_year,_2012%E2%80%9314_\(EUR_per_kWh\)_YB15.png)
[2]
[https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cf...](https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a)

~~~
ascorbic
There are only two reasons to have offshore wind power. One is because NIMBYs
make it hard to erect onshore turbines. The other reason is that it really
pisses off Donald Trump. [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-
orkney-shet...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-
shetland-35106581)

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JanSolo
Does anyone have a mirror to this that's not behind the WSJ paywall? Thanks.

~~~
mattmanser
Alternative source:
[http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/worlds-
la...](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/03/worlds-largest-
offshore-windfarm-to-be-built-off-yorkshire-coast)

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garyclarke27
In the uk politicians are paid peanuts, hence we have monkeys who make stupid
descions like this - guaranteeing 3 times market price for such electricity -
it's a complete scam confiscating our hard earned cash, then paying most of it
too foreign companies somwe don't even benefit from tech advances in this
field.

All in the name of the modern religion - nonsense computer modelled weather
forecasts. Most weather cycles - particularly solar cycles related to Gas
giant orbits and and our position in the milky way point towards cooling.
Currently we are in a weak solar maximum, when this goes minimum in 5 years
after El Ninio swings to La Ninia next year - it will be very obvious how
silly most people are. Co2 is good, life is carbon based, the world becomes
much more fertile at higher levels, in anycase warm is better than cold, most
prefer Florida to Canada a much greater temp diff than any concievable
warming.

~~~
colinb
> In the uk politicians are paid peanuts, hence we have monkeys who make
> stupid descions like this

Indeed. If only we paid MPs like they do in Nigeria it would all be much
better.

Furthermore, to call computer modelling, i.e. recording all the data we can
find and then trying to make sense of it via predictive [though inevitably
flawed] analysis a religion is one thing; but if your only counterpoint is
some waffle about gas giants and the observation that the weather is nicer in
Florida than Canada I find your argument unconvincing. We make predictions as
best we can with the data, and maths available to us. ANYTHING else is
religion because it isn't subject to counter arguments.

Finally, this obsession with politicians "confiscating our hard earned cash"
is pernicious nonsense. We pay tax. The government uses it to build stuff.
Most (not all - governments are largely made up of people no smarter than you
or me) of it is useful. There are places on the planet where taxes aren't
collected in the same way. You're welcome to go there and live with warlords,
barrel-bombs, water born diseases that wreck eyesight, drug cartels and all
the other fun stuff that goes with any system other than the (rotten,
annoying, frustrating, inefficient) thing we already have here in the UK.

I'm not from the UK but I consider myself lucky to have spent time living and
working here. I build useful things, get well paid, and willingly pay taxes in
exchange for roads, hospitals [modulo PPI], schools, sanitation, rule-of-law
and so on.

