
That awkward moment when Apple mocked good hardware and poor people - nkurz
https://www.techinasia.com/awkward-moment-apple-mocked-good-hardware-poor-people
======
rockshassa
I just can't bring myself to feel the author's anger, in any capacity. He
wants to position this as a jab against those who build their own PCs, but
that is utterly irrelevant. What percentage of those 600 million five-year-old
PCs do you really think are being thoughtfully maintained by modders? Does the
author realize that most people do not want the responsibility of maintaining
their own hardware? Or that they don't have the knowledge to do so?

Allow me to paint a more realistic picture: many of those PCs are junky, dusty
boxes, running some outdated version of windows, filled with bloatware and
riddled with security issues. Inside them are a bunch of spinning platters
just waiting to fail. And when they do eventually fail (due to wear, or a
virus, et al), someone's Grandmother is going to be shit out of luck, with no
way to get at her email, saved photos, or anything else.

A properly configured iPad, leveraging iCloud for device backups, photo
backups, email credentials etc, solves all of these problems. And they'll even
configure the iPad for you in the store, so grandma doesn't need to know how
to do any of it. Do YOU want to be the poor sap attempting data recovery on a
failed disk, then realizing that even if you do recover grandma's data, you've
still got to go buy a replacement drive, find a copy of windows that grandma
knows how to recognize, and install everything exactly as it was before you
got there? I've been that guy before, in both a personal and professional
capacity. You will eventually fail, memories will be lost, tears will be shed.

We must not gloss over the fact that the iOS ecosystem does solve some very
real pain points for real people.

~~~
SyneRyder
I have two 10-year old PCs in active use on my desk right now - both are
running Windows 10, one is playing back Netflix right now while I type this on
a third (brand new) machine.

The kicker? Those two 10-year old "PCs" are actually MacBooks. They still run
fine & do everything I need those machines to do - but I had to install
Windows 10 on them, because Apple stopped supporting their own hardware. A
machine that maxed out at Snow Leopard is capable of running Windows 10... I
think that says something about the way Apple now treats its customers.

~~~
bluthru
I don't think it's fair to expect Apple to support 32-bit processors anymore.
OS X will run on Core2Duo, which is nearly 10 years old. My parents' iMac is a
2006 and runs El Cap.

~~~
SyneRyder
I think it's understandable, but also interesting when juxtaposed with
Microsoft still making 32-bit versions of Windows 10 in 2016. They're
supporting the same hardware that Apple won't, and also an additional 10 years
of security updates (Windows 10 End-Of-Life for those 32-bit machines is
October 14, 2025 [1]).

I also have a 64-bit Core 2 Duo that Apple no longer supports. OS X Lion was
the last release for the 2007 MacBook 3,1.

[1] [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-
au/windows/lifecycle](http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/lifecycle)

~~~
dTal
It is interesting, but perhaps it doesn't mean much in the end. All it really
signifies is that Macbooks are PC-compatible. Microsoft is under a lot more
pressure to support 32-bit processors, as they're still kicking around - Apple
meanwhile only have to support their own hardware.

I would also say that Microsoft's End-Of-Life security update promises mean a
lot less now that they've demonstrated willingness to subvert that system to
force-upgrade people.

~~~
justaaron
stop denying apples active agency in their policies and cultivated culture...

they are actively pro-consumerism they are actively pro-waste

they actively don't care about your slighly older product. you are advocating
holding them to a lesser standard of culpability and support than M$ and I
find it ridiculous.

There's a palpable issue here. One shouldn't try to deny it.

------
vbezhenar
I can't imagine how I would replace my laptop with iPad. Some tasks are
definitely doable: Web browsing, Mail processing, Music listening, Skype
(though chatting on iPad is terrible because you have to switch around all the
time, losing your focus, may be split apps might help, can't experience it,
because my iPad have RAM like 15-year old PC).

Generally speaking for power user every activity on iPad is strictly worse. I
can't easily download ZIP, unzip it, open some text file, edit it, send it via
Mail. Probably I can do it with right apps, but it would require much more
clicks or taps.

What I can't even imagine doing on iPad: using Intellij Idea, using XCode,
using Google Chrome to debug and develop web apps, using image editors like
Sketch and Pixelmator (I know that I can get some kind of image editing, but I
don't think that I can do what I'm doing on PC).

Now things I could theoretically do but probably can't, because of walled
garden: using Terminal to embrace full Unix power, downloading files with
BitTorrent, using BitCoin. Probably possible with Jailbreaking, I'm not sure.
Also I'm not sure whether I could download some huge 20GB file and watch it
using another app without duplicating (does iOS copy file when I open it with
other app or just hardlink?).

And, of course, keyboard is necessary. Mouse would be useful too, but iPad
doesn't support mouse, AFAIK.

So probably the only users who can easily migrate from PC to iPad are very
casual users, who use their devices to browse web, chat and play simple games.
There could be some professionals who work with iPads, it's theoretically
possible, but I can't imagine anyone.

~~~
kybernetyk
I think the iPad Pro project is Apple's last try to re-vive the tablet form
factor. Tablet sales are going back, no one I know makes real good use of them
(even my elderly mother prefers her MacBook to her iPad for browsing, etc). My
friends all own an iPad in some incarnation but it usually is just a dust
collector. And I don't have only techie friends.

If the iPad Pro fails as the iPad did I think Apple's going to discontinue
that product line all together. Tablets are just in a weird spot between
personal computer and phones.

I get that C level execs are in love with tablets because it's the ideal
platform for their administrative tasks. But everyone else who has to do
"hands on" work is going to prefer a proper computer.

/2eurocents

~~~
matwood
First of all, the iPad did not fail in any sense of the word. The problem with
the iPad is that it delivers on its mission so well that there is little
reason to upgrade. For typical content consumption, multi-year old devices
work fine.

The iPad pro is an attempt to keep the ball moving forward on replacing a full
laptop with an iPad. For me personally, this will never happen unless OSX
comes over onto the iPad. For others though, who might mainly use their phone
now for as a 'computer' an iPad pro might be enough.

------
Udo
I'm an Apple-only user at the moment, both mobile and desktop.

When Apple asserts that a desktop computer should be replaced by a locked-down
handheld device with very limited capabilities, the odd thing seems to me is
they don't realize these devices do very different things and fulfill very
different needs.

I don't worry about the demise of the desktop because I'm nostalgic, I worry
about the loss of power and productivity incurred by users with desktop-
illiteracy. There are many applications for which a handheld device,
especially one with the limitations of iOS, is just not suitable - in much the
same way a full desktop/laptop computer is not suitable for things mobile
devices excel at.

That the hardware is locked down, outdated, and supremely expensive are
additional criteria making the disconnect worse, but these are not the crux of
the problem in my opinion. I see two outcomes from this, neither one is
appealing: either Apple is misjudging the needs of their users, to the point
where trendsetters like programmers will be switching away from the platform.
Or, they succeed in their vision and breed several generations of
technologically illiterate information workers fumbling their way through life
with nothing but extremely limited mobile devices as their only productivity
tool.

~~~
widdershins
As far as I can see, Apple 'get' the different use cases better than some
others in the industry. That's why they've been reluctant to add touch screen
to their laptops as Microsoft have done, because they don't see it being
useful.

I think this was just an ill-judged offhand comment.

P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still works
beautifully.

~~~
Udo
_> I think this was just an ill-judged offhand comment._

I don't think you have provided sufficient information as to why you think my
comment was bad. You say the 'get' different use cases better than most in the
industry, and that used to be something I agree with. However, this effect is
shrinking, at least as far as my personal needs are concerned - which is
admittedly anecdotal.

 _> P.S. I'm typing this on an 2010 MBP which, with an SSD upgrade, still
works beautifully._

I did the same thing with my 2012 MBP, but I'll have to replace the machine
entirely for performance reasons soon, and there is _no_ upgrade path for
current MBP models anymore, at all. What you buy is what you'll have.

~~~
the_af
I think the parent poster meant this was "just an ill-judged offhand comment"
on Schiller's part, not you :)

------
waspleg
I completely agree with the author of the article. Apple is the real-world
incarnation of the economic premise of Huxley's "A Brave New World". This was
just the mask dropping for a second to pander to the faithful.

I'd like to add, as someone who works at K12 public high school, that I've
seen the reality of the article played out. My building is 100% free lunch,
most are extremely poor, and yet there is a sizable number with new iphones.
Why? Because they don't want to look poor or be thought of as such.

In American society poverty is associated with failure on many levels. We have
our caste system as much as India, only ours is economic, and enforced
ruthlessly with endless class warfare - largely in one direction.

~~~
rileymat2
I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I
would want to give up.

The utility of the device is incredible: Mapping. Phone. Internet. Email.
Alarm Clock. Calendaring. Photography.

If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor. It
would be a great way to improve their lives for a somewhat modest cost. I am
not sure it is all for looks. Maybe we could quibble about whether they should
have an iPhone or some cheaper smartphone. I am just saying, it could be more
for utility than image.

~~~
noxToken
> _I am not sure if I was suddenly without money, the iPhone would be what I
> would want to give up._

If you have an iPhone and _then_ become poor, sure. You probably won't get
ahead much by getting rid of your iPhone. If you're already poor, then an
iPhone (not a smartphone) is definitely a luxury.

There are capable smartphones for much cheaper then an iPhone that could get
the job done. That's what GP was likely getting at.

> _If anything we should work to get smart phones in the hands of the poor._

I am not aware of a socialized plan to put phone in the hands of poor people,
but they are getting increasingly cheaper. You can get Samsung Galaxy line
(not the flagship model) phones from cheap, prepaid carriers. Wi-Fi is
becoming increasingly available, which makes the limited data plans not that
bad of a drawback.

~~~
simonh
I bought an iPhone 3GS in 2009, that's 6 and a half years ago and my daughter
now uses it at school. It even still connects to the App Store. Other than a
cracked screen it works fine. Battery life isn't great, but it gets her
through the school day.

These things have incredible lifetimes and also keep their resale value very
well. So in terms of value, I'm not convinced that iPhones are a frivolous
luxury. In my experience they're a reliable long term investment.

Is that relevant to low wage earners? I think so. If iPhones stopped getting
software updates 12 months (or less) after launch and ended up in a junk
drawer soon after, I don't think they'd sell nearly so well in any demographic
range.

~~~
ratbeard
We've got an iPad 2 that is not useless, but much worse after upgrading to
ios9. I still play Kingdom Rush games on it but its so slow now its too
frustrating to use for internet browsing and other things.

~~~
charlesdm
It's one of the reasons why I haven't upgraded my iPad 2 past iOS6.

It still streams Netflix great though, but the browser is starting to show its
age - I can't load all webpages anymore. :(

Looks like I might need to pick up a new iPad..

~~~
sametmax
"Looks like I might need to pick up a new iPad.."

That is insane. I can load all webpages on any laptop from 5 years ago. A
browser doesn't become "slower". Even with bigger pages, they are still web
pages, not 3D games.

It means the ipad itself is, for some reason, rendering itself slow. And you
can't do anything about it because you can't hack it.

And your idea of the solution to the problem is to buy a new one ?

My god, somebody sell you a self-destructing product in order to force you to
buy a new one, and you oblige ?

~~~
eric_h
In the last 5 years, bloat on web pages has increased _considerably_. Tracking
script counts on all pages has gone way up, and I very frequently will find
that if I leave some web pages in a background tab, their memory usage will
climb into the gigabytes, even for pages that are mostly just text! Since the
ram on those older devices is not getting any bigger, of course web pages are
going to get slower.

~~~
sametmax
Yes, but it still web pages. Not meteo simulations. And I just tested in on an
old asus with a dead battery and a broken screen. It's fine to surf on the
web. Watch videos. Listen to music. You could do it 10 years ago already with
even older computers. Your ipad is lying to you.

------
gurkendoktor
That slide was really bad. It's not about being easily offended (I have no
reason to) - but it pokes a hole into the first half of the event, where Apple
tried to present itself as a green and caring company.

It's such an obvious mistake that I wonder nobody at Apple has pointed that
out during the rehearsals? The thing about old PCs being designed 'before
social media' was dumb, too. This is a "pro" tablet, right? How does it matter
if it has a Facebook app?

This is the same Phil Schiller that is now in charge of the App Store, and as
an iOS developer, I find the carelessness a little worrying.

~~~
petra
>>It's such an obvious mistake that I wonder nobody at Apple has pointed that
out during the rehearsals?

Maybe this isn't a mistake ? maybe, deep down, Apple knows that the number one
thing they sell is status and a false feeling of superiority ? So why not give
their users who replace their devices often, some of that feeling ? a feeling
that they are less able to supply via highly differentiated innovation ?

So who knows whether this method will work or be deemed as too crude - most of
us here aren't good at marketing as Apple.

------
gopz
Apple says this shit every time it has a major press event. Saying it mocks
poor people is digging around for something to be offended about. Is the
author really offended every time they see an ad for a newer car model when
current and prior models work just fine? Saying it mocks good hardware isn't
out of touch. Seriously, what did they think Apple was going to say:

> Buy a new iPad pro.

Schiller turns around, goes back to the slides, stops midway, turns to the
crowd and says "But I still use an old PC, because if it ain't broke, don't
fix it!", winks, and continues the presentation.

Come on, this article is grasping at straws.

~~~
pilsetnieks
I miss the olden days when people were reading tea leaves before an
announcement to divine from invitation phrasing what new products Apple is
going to offer. As opposed to nowadays when after the announcement people are
looking for words to latch on and twist their meaning to be offended about.

I bet they're not as much offended about the pageviews and ad impressions a
link titled like that brings in.

------
Spooky23
IMO, this is a typical Apple troll article.

"<vendor> mocks poor people" is the dumbest possible analysis of this data. I
work for an organization with something like $1.5B in IT spend. Our 40th
percentile PC is 8 years old. The 80th percentile PC is 4. Our desired refresh
for a desktop PC is 40 months.

Why? The post 2008 recession killed discretionary spending. Then Microsoft
failed utterly to deliver a compelling desktop strategy from 2008 to the
present day. They finally got their shit together with Windows 10, but their
fantasy world where the universe is transitioning from Windows 7->8->10 makes
that more friction-prone than it need be.

Consumers are in the same boat. People skipped upgrades because of the
friction involved in the transition, which is why Microsoft is dragging you to
upgrade kicking and screaming.

Personally, I use my elderly in-laws as a proxy for non-technical consumers.
They are technophobes -- a retired fireman and nurse respectively... not rich,
not poor. When I met my wife in 2000, they were still leasing a telephone from
AT&T. They made the PC->Mac transition in 2009 and were actually able to use
their computer without worrying about the typical PC woes (AV, updates, etc).
That Mac is aging and it's was starting to turn into the time to go.

With the iPad Pro, my father in law ran out to the Apple Store by himself, got
the stuff he needed and got everything going on his own. Long story short --
he loves it. It does everything that they need to do, and is a more convenient
form factor than the laptop. He hasn't touched the computer other than syncing
music from the Mac to the PC since.

------
ekianjo
The superior attitude of Apple execs is nothing new. Even right at the start
of the company that's a culture Jobs started with, looking down on all its
competitors.

What's rather sad is the laughing audience, to me, who left their brains at
the door and laugh and applause when they are told to. Just like in 1984's
iconic Apple ad, by the way. The loop is complete.

~~~
raisedbyninjas
Apple has always sold elitism. They'll frequently add bullet points to
products for some superlative to facilitate this. It doesn't matter if users
have to throw away their old accessories or they have to trim out useful
features like mouse buttons or a headphone jack. Getting to put on the box
"thinnest" or "lightest" or "first" is more valuable to Apple than product
utility. It's a strategy that has served them very well. As long as a market
exists that values snobbery and luxury signaling, they'll have non-zero sales.

------
jMyles
In addition to the point the author makes about the benefits of modularity,
this strikes me as environmentally tone-deaf as well. Do we just expect
devices to enter the waste stream every 5 years now? Can't we do better?

~~~
masklinn
That, sadly, is something Apple really doesn't support or encourage, by and
large they've kept moving away from reparable and upgradable products[0] even
though that's by far the most ecological option (short of not using industrial
products in the first place)

[0] to trade them for form (soldered RAM, fused display panels), for assembly
convenience (tons of adhesives, thankfully they've at least started moving to
adhesive pull tabs for iOS device batteries) or for no fucking reason
whatsoever (custom SSD connectors, proprietary/security screws). As far as
iFixit is concerned, the only thing less repairable than an rMBP is an orange.

~~~
tim333
But now they've got Liam the robot [http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/apple-unveils-
liam-iphone-recycling...](http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/apple-unveils-liam-iphone-
recycling-robot-1550967)

~~~
vc98mvco
Do they expect us to believe that the parts will be reused, like it is implied
in the video? Of course not, there is not chance the parts will match the next
model and even if they do they would have to undergo inspection and testing.
That is way to expensive and time consuming. Instead they will be melted into
raw components, which is not shown in the video.

What will happen in reality is the phone will go into a industrial shredder
and then the process of separating/recycling will begin. The robot seems like
a marketing gimmick (they even have it a name), and will not be involved in
99% of the recycling process.

I really want to be proven wrong.

~~~
jonknee
They talk about harvesting the raw metals and elements in the video... The
hard part in ewaste recycling isn't collecting the devices, it's breaking them
down into their isolated components. The robot's aim is to do that instead of
a shredder so that they can have a much higher re-use rate.

[http://mashable.com/2016/03/21/apple-liam-recycling-
robot/](http://mashable.com/2016/03/21/apple-liam-recycling-robot/)

And of course this is also a project to have a robot do the reverse--assemble
iPhones.

------
ysavir
Did you know there are over 600 million Honda Civics over 5 years old still on
the roads? Hah! Clearly, their owners should replace them with Porsche 911s
instead.

~~~
soylentcola
I know the car analogies are tired and cliche but that's not too far off. I
used to work for a guy who was an Apple zealot whereas I was more the type to
do price comparisons and buy whatever I could afford without going overboard
for bells, whistles, and extra layers of polish. I think a lot of it had to do
with the fact that the guy was a business owner who got his start via a nice
big trust fund his family had set up for him whereas I was paying my way
through college working for him.

Either way, this wasn't a tech company but more like a retail shop with an
attached cafe. People frequently would chit-chat about computer stuff and
several times people would complain that their old or severely
underpowered/low end PC was too slow or crapped out on them. Boss' answer:
"Get a Mac!" Every time without fail.

It really made it hard not to bristle at the sentiment or take it out on Apple
in general since they had similar themes in their ad campaigns at the time
(this was the "I'm a Mac" days). Essentially people were either using the
equivalent of aging Camrys or newer models at the extreme low end of the
market like some 3cyl Ford Fiesta and the solution to their problems was
obviously to buy a Mercedes.

Of course a luxury car (or computer) is going to run better than something old
or low-end but there's a much wider range in between that will often cover
your needs, sans some extra layers of polish that demand an understandable
premium, for considerably less money.

So yeah, marketers will market. Fanboys will fanboy. I get it. But it doesn't
make it less irritating when users and customers start parroting the lines
from ad campaigns that seek to convince you that anything less than the
Porsche or the Benz are just going to crap out on you and leave you sad and
lonely.

------
mrbill
I just bought a "new to me" laptop.

Refurb Thinkpad T420s from 2011. I added 16G RAM, two Intel SSDs, an Ultrabay
battery, and an 802.12ac wifi card. Grand total: less than $325.

This will be my primary portable for at least 2-3 years, and it's already four
years old.

Just because I can afford Apple doesn't mean I can justify the 2x price
premium, or that "old" hardware isn't capable.

~~~
aibara
A month ago I did the same thing, a T420s with just slightly different specs.
The sad thing is that in 2-3 years whatever we choose to replace it with will
likely have an inferior keyboard.

------
ams6110
My daily computer at work is a 6 year old Dell Optiplex. 4GB RAM and an SSD.
Perfectly good for what I do.

My laptop is a 1st gen Macbook Air, inherited from original owner. Also
perfectly good for what I do.

My car is from 2004. Perfectly reliable and meets all my needs.

There is a HUGE amount of retail activity that is caried out just because
people want the newest and latest version of things. And I have no problem
with that, but it's absolutely not necessary if you don't want to participate.

------
WhitneyLand
I'm usually pretty sensitive to this kind of thing, but this is an overblown
reaction that reads too much into what was said.

There are enough people and situations to judge for disregarding the condition
of poverty, we don't need to contrive any.

~~~
ewzimm
The problem is that everyone is commenting not on what he said, but what Apple
is "really thinking." People really need to stop thinking that corporations
think like people. They are composed of people, of course, and this one
happens to comprise over 115,000 people, each with their own individual
opinions.

Yes, some of them are elitist jerks. Some of them are not. I find lots of
things Apple does offensive and other things I really like. But I have no
illusions that there's some kind of corporate hive mind that speaks its hidden
agenda through executive avatars.

I'm not surprised that there are parts of Apple that are focused on
sustainability and other parts that couldn't care less. That's not
contradictory, that's collaboration. I'm glad the ones that care about
sustainability work in that department, and if engineers keep doing their jobs
and make long-lasting products, whatever their opinions on old hardware happen
to be, everything will be fine.

The idea that an entire corporation should share the same opinions on
everything is just scary. I know plenty of them have been trying to push that
kind of message, but we're smarter than that, aren't we?

------
macspoofing
Wow. Is this how far the author had to dig to find something to complain
about? Yes, companies will frequently give you some marketing spin to get you
to buy a new version of a product. And yes, you should use your head to figure
out if you a) need it, b) can afford it. And no, it's not an insult to those
that decide not to buy the new product.

~~~
rileymat2
I did not have the negative reaction to the same degree when watching, but did
find the comment a little strange as well. He does not need to dig that deep.

------
tylercubell
Yes, it was a misinformed statement on the part of Phil Schiller, but I find
it annoying that the author cherry-picks one line from an hour long keynote to
write an overly dramatic holier-than-thou diatribe. If the author wants to
make the case that Apple is elitist or out-of-touch, then he'll need to gather
more evidence rather than rely on a few personal anecdotes and pretentious
quips.

------
Kristine1975
Since Apple sells hardware, of course they will find it sad if people don't
buy new hardware all the time. But it's nice to see them being
(unintentionally?) honest about it for once amidst all the marketing.

------
agumonkey
Didn't read Schiller's comment as a jab to users. More as the usual attack
against the MS/clone industry.

My thoughts at that moment: 'modern digital like' is a sad joke. 4K video
won't change your life, even 1080p. If your hardware isn't absurd, pop Linux,
a SSD if needed, and enjoy the 80$ bliss. All from a guy trying to sell hour
based color shifting .. come on.

------
donatj
This cuts particularly close to home for me. I work for an educational company
with developers that actively mock schools with low resolution screens and
poor JavaScript performance, not to mention Android and Fire tablets, while
they sit on these brand new MacBook Pros with SSDs and Cinema Displays doing
their testing. The schools don't have these low power machines because they're
dumb or not tech savvy. The vast majority have them because they are poor. We
are trying to help the poor and you are completely missing the point. If you
can deliver the exact same content in a way that doesn't require a high
performance machine that is the ideal. The more we can do server side the more
we are giving instead of taking.

------
frogpelt
This is so silly. Apple is a company that makes money when you buy their
products.

If there are 600 million people who are using something besides one of their
product they are going to say that those people should use their products
instead.

Get off your high horse.

------
studentrob
Schiller is marketing his company's product. _So what?_

What he said was along the same lines of rhetoric as all the "I'm a Mac, I'm a
PC" commercials.

There's nothing to take personally about what an executive says about the
products you choose to use in your home. That's your choice.

~~~
vlunkr
Right, this is an apple conference, he works for Apple. I'm sure I'm not the
only one here that's worked somewhere that we liked to bash our competition
all the time, because we thought it was funny and we all believed it at some
level. I think the author is reading too much into this comment.

------
post_break
Teases people with 5 year old PCs, still ships Cinema Displays and Macbook
Pros that are from 2011.

------
tombert
It kind of feels like the author was just looking for reasons to be offended.
This comment didn't really seem that offensive at all.

------
zekevermillion
My home PC is over eight years old and still functions adequately. I enjoy
using it and maintaining it much more than I would fumbling around with a new
Apple iPad. It cost about $2800 new, and I've spent about $300 on upgrades
since then. So the total cost of ownership is about 390/year. I don't think
this cost is much better than buying new iThings every couple years. But I get
a much more powerful device, and it requires me to learn a few _basic_ things
about the computer to keep it up. So for me, as I suspect for a lot of people,
a decision to maintain a PC system is not really as much about cost as it is
about fun.

~~~
iolothebard
I just realized I'm working on a 5 year old Thinkpad (T420).

I upgrade just for the heck of it normally, but I gave my wife my T430 for
grad school and I bought her a Surface Pro 3 as well (for notes and just for
the hell of it). I'm tempted to buy a T460p (if they ever make it into the
supply chain with nVidia FX) or a P50, but this T420 keeps chugging along just
fine.

On my current consulting gig I'm working on a VM anyway for all development
(interesting change of pace, works well locally but holy crap remotely). I
think I paid $400 for this laptop used (bought it after the T430 since I
couldn't ask for it back). Popped in 4gb more ram and a mSATA SSD for about
$160 more.

I'd like to get an Apple to work on a iOS project on the side I've been
thinking of. I just can't see spending $800 on a Mac Mini. I'll probably just
do a Hackintosh instead (have a C2D Mini that works fine).

~~~
zekevermillion
Time flies! I wish that Apple would open up their boxes to allow for a bit
more tinkering. More of the Wozniak rather than the Jobs philosophy. I think
that they could do this, allow for user modification, without giving up on
their high-minded design principles.

~~~
iolothebard
Quicksilver Mac ~2001 was my favorite mac of all time:
[http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/mac-vs-x86/macopen.jpg](http://www.ixbt.com/cpu/mac-
vs-x86/macopen.jpg)

------
mberning
I have no idea how the two points in the article are the only takeaway the
author had. On point one, Apple has never been the cheapest at anything.
Although they have been offering more low end options as of late they are
still not a 'budget' manufacturer and likely never will be.

On point two, it is absolutly possible that a 5 year old machine still runs
fine. Depending on the machine! A 5 year old macbook pro is still pretty
capable. A 5 year old acer laptop that you got at a black friday sale... not
so much. I think this is the level of user they would like to have switch and
it's not that far fetched.

~~~
bluedino
My mother has been using exactly that - a 4 year old black Friday Acer laptop.
2 years in, she complained that it was painfully slow so I stuck an SSD and an
extra 2GB of RAM in it. This past year the trackpad quit working, so we
connected an old USB mouse.

Finally for Christmas I bought an iPad Mini for $199. It's so much smaller
than the 15.6" laptop she had, so much easier to use, turns on/off instantly,
the battery lasts all day. It's a huge improvement for her. Facebook, games,
email, Facetiming her grandkids...

She keeps the Acer around for one thing - ripping CD's to sync to her SanDisk
MP3 player.

~~~
tdkl
Good luck using that Mini for 4 years, when iOS runs worse and worse on it.
You could mend that with more RAM, but hey that kind of luxury ain't "the
Apple way".

~~~
ghaff
My dad still uses my old first gen iPad and it does everything he needs it to
do. It's been the greatest gift (for me) ever. He was never comfortable using
PCs and I do FAR less tech support than I used to.

------
SEJeff
Actually a lot of homeless are turning _to_ smartphones to help with their day
to day lives.

[http://www.business2community.com/tech-gadgets/the-us-
homele...](http://www.business2community.com/tech-gadgets/the-us-homeless-
turn-to-smartphones-and-ipads-to-survive-0375464#44M2BEMob1zZSRUM.97)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/upshot/fighting-
homelessne...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/15/upshot/fighting-homelessness-
one-smartphone-at-a-time.html)

------
mobiuscog
The only hardware in my house that needs to be replaced (which includes both
PCs and Macs) of that age is...

... my original iPad. Because Apple left it to die - even the last update
means it can't run Apple's own store or browser without crashing and I can't
get versions of software that previously worked because they're not supported
or offered any more as Apple forced developers to move up to all of the new
API's.

Yes - I can see exactly why I should spend yet more money on something that
will _intentionally_ become obselescent in the future.

------
erokar
The comment appears even more heinous when Tim Cook goes on to brag a about
recycling and Apple's environmental responsibility. Please. Apple is one of
the most bourgeoisie and reactionary companies today, primarily pushing
products meant for consumption, not for creating. At least be honest about it.

------
w8rbt
I use 7 year old PCs because they run Linux just fine.

Also, I think it's bad for the environment and humanity in general to buy new
igadgets every year. So, I use a 4 year old refurbished dumb phone that I
bought for $9.99. It works great (just like my 7 year old Linux PC).

------
Mikeb85
> “This is an amazing statistic,” he says with a serious look before revealing
> that there are more than 600 million PCs in use that are over five years
> old. “This is really sad.”

Maybe people are still using old PCs because they still work and are fully
functional? I'm using a 4 year old ThinkPad and guess what? It's not only
still fully functional, it's still quick, snappy, the screen is still bright
and looks nice (I did splurge for the upgrade at the time), and it's been
super low maintenance (been running Linux on it the whole time). It could use
a new battery (capacity has gone down over time), but hey, it's a removable
battery so I can do that.

I imagine I'll still be getting a few more years of use from it, there
certainly are no signs that I _should_ upgrade at the moment. I mean, if I
were to be a little greedy, I'd buy a new laptop with a wicked video card and
give this one to my wife (after she made me throw out a fully functional 6
year old desktop we didn't use very often), but is that necessary, not really.

It's pretty plain that Apple simply plans for its products to be replaced
quicker than 5 years, to make more sales, and they're speaking to the
faithful.

------
scandox
8 years ago I bought a top of the range Sony Vaio. I used it till last month.
Replaced hard disk one time. Replaced memory one time. Glued charger together
one time.

I bought a new median range Dell this month....and meh. Basically those eight
years have made no difference to me running Arch and/or Debian.

Imagine trying to say that about the 8 years preceding that (I.e 2000 to
2008).

------
OSButler
In my case they mocked themselves, as I'm working on an old Macbook model. I'd
love to upgrade, but everything is still working. The things I like about the
new Macbooks barely affect my work and if I spec one out to my preferred
options, then it ends up with an astronomical price tag. It just seems like
they are advancing in some areas (screen, touchpad, ...) but are stuck in the
past in several others (memory, HDD, ...).

I'll most likely be getting a new Macbook once my current one finally decides
to visit its ancestors. With that said, I'm actually impressed with its
longevity, as none of my other PCs (desktops & laptops) ever lasted that long.
So, I actually see running on old hardware as an impressive feat (unless
you're a gamer).

------
teekert
"Ending is better than mending"

For the uninitiated: [http://www.enotes.com/homework-help/ending-better-than-
mendi...](http://www.enotes.com/homework-help/ending-better-than-mending-more-
stitches-less-240671)

------
coco1989
My Ipad mini keeps getting slower and slower. soon it will be a Kindle

~~~
littleweep
Which model is it? I just bought one and still have the option of returning
it.

------
ebbv
Yeah it's a stupid comment; my PC uses a Core i5 2500K which is more than 5
years old. There's good reason; it's still plenty fast.

But saying this was mocking poor people is just ridiculous. It's trying to
stir up outrage over nothing.

------
rythie
I'm not convinced the new iPad pro will even be usable for 5 years.

I gave up on the iPad 1 and iPad mini because they didn't have enough RAM to
load many websites. The new iPad pro has only 2GB of RAM and even 5 year old
PCs had 4GB or 8GB.

------
sklivvz1971
I felt the same as the author. The blog post, however, is a bit unfair to
Apple and Schiller.

I think what he meant was "It's sad that these people don't know yet the
wonderful news that they can use this fantastic new iPad instead"

------
kdamken
Is the iPad Pro a feasible replacement for an actual computer? Not even close.
Not until it runs a version of OS X.

Was apple mocking poor people? Of course not. It's 2016. Can we stop
overreacting about every little thing yet?

------
abecedarius
> _And I bought an easily moddable, upgradable piece of hardware that can
> adapt to new technologies in ways no Apple product could ever hope to._

Funny thing: the Apple ][ was the flag bearer in its time for that kind of
upgradability. Wozniak insisted on this against Jobs, and it kept the ][ alive
through the 3's flop and well into the Mac era -- the Mac did not succeed
right away.

Is it so impossible for Apple to bring back some of that spirit of open
design? The Jobs lockdown was and still is their greatest turnoff for me as a
customer.

------
donkeyd
My 15" Macbook Pro will turn 4 this year. I don't see it being replaced soon,
since it still performs quite well. The 13" MacBook Pro that my girlfriend
uses is about to turn 6 years old. That one could be replaced, since it has
some issues, but for her it does what it needs to do, so there's no real need.
We might be able to replace it with an iPad Pro, but I doubt we will.

I wouldn't call myself poor, but I have no need to replace these devices every
3 years, since not much changes, except they get thinner.

------
rubyfan
Wow, this is reading way too much into the comment than it deserves. I guess
if you have an agenda then you will figure out any way to make your point no
matter how far a stretch it is.

------
ilamont
Reminds me of the time Schiller dumped Instagram after an Android version came
out.

 _A reader noticed Schiller deleted his Instagram account (@schiller), and
then reached out to Apple’s most visible public speaker by Twitter for
confirmation. Schiller told the reader that he quit the rising photo-based
social network, because the app “jumped the shark” when it launched on the
Android platform._

[http://9to5mac.com/2012/04/19/apple-marketing-svp-phil-
schil...](http://9to5mac.com/2012/04/19/apple-marketing-svp-phil-schiller-
dumps-instagram-over-expansion-to-android/)

At the time, I thought it was a slap in the face to people who couldn't afford
iOS devices but wanted to join the Instagram community. Schiller portrayed it
as a drop in quality, apparently:

 _Another 9to5Mac reader, Clayton Braasch, claims to have emailed Schiller
directly, asking him to elaborate upon the statement. In a post on his blog,
Braasch writes that Schiller responded — 9to5Mac says it has verified the
email headers — and that while Schiller still considers Instagram a "great app
and community," he enjoyed the fact that it was used by a small group of early
adopters. Now that its reach has expanded, Schiller allegedly wrote, "the
signal to noise ratio is different."_

[http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/19/2961612/apple-phil-
schille...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/19/2961612/apple-phil-schiller-
drops-instagram-after-android-launch)

------
psk23
Ive got a PC Thats one week old. I bought it straight after apple failed to
announce any macs with a decent GPU. Most devs I know are switching back this
year or last.

------
joesmo
"Maybe Apple really does find the idea of hardware that can function for five
years “sad” and funny these days."

Maybe? Is there even a question anymore? If there is, one only needs to look
at the designs Apple has been pushing for the last seven years: un-upgradable,
mass-consumer grade quality products. If anything has been crystal clear from
the disappearance of all upgradeable parts in all their products over the last
few years and their constant events (at least 3 a year) is that they want you
to buy new shiny stuff and they don't care about supporting the old stuff.
Apple will support you for one year or up to two or three (depending on
product) if you pay a few hundred extra for Apple care. The fact that there is
no Applecare plan longer than two years for iPads and three years for laptops
should be another crystal clear indicator that their product aren't meant to
last and be used that long.

That being said, at least with their laptops (haven't used the new Macbook)
the hardware quality is generally very high (except for the trackpads). I hope
it continues to stay this way.

------
dreta
Virtue signalling, the article.

Apple’s based in SF. An iPad Pro is like a week’s worth of rent, and to them
“work” probably means scribbling a hipster poem while sipping coffee you can’t
pronounce without 5 years of language study. How is anything the guy said
different from how the conferences always go. The fact that the author found
it worthwhile to write about this like this is an actual problem is
astounding.

------
joezydeco
How about the other moment where Apple showed their "40 years in 40 seconds"
video and scratched out the Newton?

You really want to mock the massive effort of that group - a group you
believed in at one point in time? At least honor the memory of Ko Isono.

I didn't see the Lisa or the Apple /// get the same treatment. Maybe because
Saint Steve backed those projects?

------
twoodfin
Good evidence that if you try hard enough you can be offended by anything.

------
kmano8
I was passively listening to the keynote, and this comment caught my ear. My
first reaction was, "Well damn, I'm pretty proud that the 2010 Macbook Pro
I've been using as a 24/7 server for the past 5 years is still chugging
along."

Though I suspect Macs might not be included in that statistic, it seemed out
of touch nonetheless.

------
ivankirigin
This story is a pretty good measure of whether you get offended by something
very small.

A 5 year old PC is low quality. A company that makes high quality products
wants people to have better experiences with computers.

At the event, they launched their lowest price phone. I bet that phone in a
year is going to be even cheaper.

You can find offense in everything, but you shouldn't.

------
droithomme
I disagree with this claim.

> There are really only two reasons why people might have a computer that’s
> more than five years old: > 1\. They can’t afford an upgrade. > 2\. They
> don’t need an upgrade.

There are many other reasons. Among them, upgrading hardware will force an OS
upgrade that will break significant software and hardware.

------
mwfunk
That's reading a lot into a random joke. When some public person makes a
pseudorandom comment and you perceive that as a mask being dropped to reveal
confirmation of all your darkest suspicions about that person or the people he
speaks for, you might be projecting, just a smidgen.

~~~
rodion_89
Reflects more on him than Apple

------
rdl
I just realized my gaming PC is almost 5yo. i7-970, 6 core, x58, 560 Ti, 24
GB, a couple SSDs. Was high end when I built it and still basically ok now.

Computers really have plateaued in a lot of ways. Phones for 2-4y vs 1-2y,
laptops for. 3-6 vs 2-3, desktops for 4-8 vs 3-4y.

------
songzme
I think its easy to point fingers, but I myself is guilty of "mocking poor
people". One memory that stuck in my mind was during college during office
hours. A classmate was struggling to configure her assignment on her 5 year
old PC, nobody really wanted to help her because her computer was so old and
so irrelevant. Casually, I joked (with classmates around us) "You should burn
your laptop and get a mac." Some laughed, but she didn't.

"Why don't you buy me one"

I was a little offended, her remark and body language felt a little hostile.
We never talked again.

This memory stuck with me and I wish I could apologize to her. My seemingly
harmless remark poked fun at her economic handicap for my amusement.

------
dopamean
This reads like outrage for the sake of outrage. Like someone looking for
offense everywhere.

~~~
bogomipz
No it actually doesn't, his commentary is more about the disposable gadget
culture and Phil's inability to understand that not everyone is in a socio-
economic bracket where they can participate in the never-ending gadget
refresh. Maybe you should reread it?

~~~
xlm1717
It's the kind of elitist attitude stereotypical of iOS users. Just goes to
show they got that attitude straight from Apple itself.

------
dates
"Maybe Apple really does find the idea of hardware that can function for five
years 'sad' and funny these days."

I don't think this is true. Apple just replaced the motherboard on my 2011
Macbook Pro for free. I've also upgraded the RAM, HD to a SSD, Battery, &
Fans. Its running soooo good I love it.

The price of 5+ year old macbook pros, imacs, and mac pros on ebay is proof
that apple does make hardware that lasts... Anyways, I'm interested in the
relationship between apple releasing new products and the aftermarket value of
older version. I think apple releasing newer ipads probably makes older used
ipads more affordable..

~~~
ocean3
free? Does that happen only in USA? Apple care in India quoted me around 400
dollars for replacement with 6 months warranty. No way i am buying second hand
Apple hardware in India if service costs so much.

~~~
dates
It depends on the model you have! Here is the link for more information:
[https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-
videoissues/](https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/)

------
skc
It's not the comment that was absurd. It was the fact that Apple seemingly has
no answer as to why there are over 600 million people still using old PC's.

Instead of exploring why that might be the case they instead decided to mock
these people.

Just bizarre.

------
peterashford
I'm typing this on my home PC which is over 5 years old. I've replaced the gfx
card, CPU and memory and it plays Battlefield 4 pretty well. I also use it for
programming (I work in game dev). Why would I replace this very serviceable PC
for a Apple toy which will be unsupported as soon as its manufacturer thinks
they can get away with it in an attempt to get everyone on their must-upgrade-
to-the-latest-thing merry-go-round. I appreciate quality hardware and fashion
in tech a-la Apple makes me puke.

------
jonkiddy
"nothing about today’s iPad Pro presentation made me rethink my position at
all"

This is the only part of the article that resonated with me. Apple completely
failed to provide any viable reason for 600m+ PC users to switch to an iPad
Pro.

------
circa
I agree with a lot of this in the personal world. Sure a lot of people don't
have the money to upgrade.

At my old job, at an MSP, I used to upgrade a TON of people from XP to Win 7
or 8.1 in the small/medium business world. I could not believe how many
companies absolutely had the money to upgrade their PCs but simply did not
want to because they were afraid of the learning curve. It basically came down
to that. They had no problem paying for us to "fix" their XP machines at
$125+/hour. The same went for a lot of servers. Who knows how many of those
are in the said 600 million pool.

------
s_q_b
The point of the throwaway remark was that there's pent-up demand for consumer
goods due to the Recession.

Similarly, traders are speculating global new vehicle sales to increase, as
the average age of a car on the road far older than the previous trend. It's
north of a decade even in the United States.

The theory is that during tight times people deleverage and reduce spending,
while during boom times the demand that accumulated during the tight times is
released through extra consumption.

Getting from the Apple comment to the article's _topic_ , much less
conclusions, takes a spectacular amount of cognitive gymnastics.

------
bechampion
I own a macbook and I love it but, what I really need is

Browser Terminal Python

That is it , to me is very relative ... i can work with a 5 year old laptop...
no problem , most of my things run on servers etc etc. Ipad Pro? no way ..
give it to kids.

------
chetanahuja
It's funny because I'm still using a giant MacPro from 2008 (yes... the tower)
as a home machine. It's crammed full of high density storage and I've added
aftermarket RAM to the box to max out the slots. It's the last mac model that
allows you to upgrade easily.

I think they continued to sell it until 2012 or so but then fixed the
"oversight" with an art deco piece of a "desktop" computer with no room for
upgrades. I still buy Apple laptops because work involves dealing with Xcode
and iOS stuff but for any personal use, no more Apple hardware for me.

------
d_theorist
I think this person has missed the point.

The assumption here is that the vast majority of >5-year-old PCs are crap, and
that the reason for continuing with them is that a new full PC replacement is
too expensive. The iPad is supposed to be disruptive because it's a lower-cost
machine that can nonetheless do everything the user used to do on a full-
fledged PC.

You might disagree that the iPad succeeds in this, but it is nonetheless the
way Apple thinks about where the iPad sits in the market. This was the point
of Schiller's remark. It has nothing to do with mocking the poor.

~~~
bwindels
The cheapest iPad Pro (the device that Schiller mentioned to replace PCs)
costs 600$. You can get a fairly good windows laptop for that amount of money.
So yes, either Phil Schiller was mocking people that don't buy into their
"revolutionary" upgrade cycle, or he was mocking poor people. Both indeed seem
off-putting to me.

------
gnicholas
>Even if you insist on a tablet, you could get Microsoft’s Surface 3, which
boasts a slightly worse screen but offers double the storage capacity, for
US$100 less.

It is well-documented that the Surface OS takes up far more space than iOS,
which means that the available space is not nearly as disparate as it would
seem (though the Surface still has a bit more):
[http://www.slashgear.com/surface-3-storage-space-still-
limit...](http://www.slashgear.com/surface-3-storage-space-still-
limited-31376337/)

------
pmontra
I paid my bills from Nov 2006 to Feb 2013 with a HP nc8430. I let it go
because it started to be annoyngly low on memory because of my new usage
patterns: more VMs of more memory hungry OSes and more browser tabs, only 4
GB. Furthermore it run out of support and I would have had to buy my spare
parts, no more next business day on site assistance. I got a Zbook 15 and I
feel like I can go on with that for another 6 years (i7, up to 32 GB). No need
to be on a 2 years update cycle, sadly for HP (or Apple) but not for me.

------
randcraw
Maybe Schiller meant it was sad that PCs haven't improved substantially in 5
years, which is true to a degree that isn't just sad, it's seriously bad. As
software historically continues to slow, app runtimes inevitably will too.

Is an iPad Pro 2 the answer? Obviously not. The unsaid lesson from this event
is that Apple's products aren't improving as quickly either. Nor are the new
features as interesting. So it's not surprising that Schiller would look
backward instead of forward.

------
kplanz
I do not agree with the author of the article. I think there also is reason
#3: They _think_ they don't need an upgrade.

There are a lot of people who own an old PC and think it's the best possible
setup. But in reality they actually wouldn't need a full PC because all they
do is browse the web and read/write emails. My opinion is that many people
would be better off with an iPad than a PC. It's small, portable, intuitive,
easy to maintain, has great customer support and so on.

~~~
tagrun
Great support? My wife's experience with them has been terrible, I don't even
want to talk about it. They basically blocked us from using warranty, and told
us to pay fully for a new device. And I promised that's the last apple product
that will enter our home.

And after the iOS update rendered many "old" devices unusably slow, the
"great" customer support basically told them to spend more money on new
models.

> wouldn't need a full PC because

Your pitch is wrong: people _already_ own a PC, what they don't need is to buy
apple gadgets, and replace them with newer apple gadgets every couple of
years. My parents are totally happy with their ~10 year old PC with SSD,
running LTS Debian, and are able to do everything they want freely.

As for myself, I do own an Android smartphone, but that's only because the
phone company gave it for free, not that I asked for it, and such a "toy"
system definitely isn't going to replace my PC, or a true POSIX environment.

------
phaser
I prefer a 5 year old computer that is open, repairable, I can run any OS I
want than the "Ultimate PC replacement" that can only run software signed (and
sold) by Apple.

------
bogomipz
In the last year we've seen Apple produce a pencil and a watch, whats next a
paperclip? I found the comment condescending and yet not at all surprising.
Seriously F them.

~~~
qb45
> whats next a paperclip?

Smart paperclip was a Microsoft thing ;)

You reminded me that I need to dig out and backup my Office 97 disk before it
rots.

------
quietplatypus
I'm not even poor, and I still do my research on a workstation from 2009. It's
fast enough for what I'm doing, and why waste new hardware on bloated
software?

------
XorNot
There's a study I want to see done: take a bunch of people, dress them at a
whole bunch of different overall "looks". Put them in different contexts
holding several different smartphones of varying prices.

Then, bring in the subject group: and ask a question - how much do you think
the phone is worth? How wealthy do you think the person is?

My hypothesis: people have no idea what phone's cost at an average viewing
distance (say 3m+).

------
blackhaz
Reading this on a 2009 MacBook Pro with SSD, working perfectly fast for my
tasks, with Thinkpad T400 running FreeBSD nearby. I think they're running out
of ideas why would I need to upgrade. Definitely not doing it for a new fancy
UI animation. Just imagine: a content that scrolls down and then smashes into
the screen boundary, bounces back and then reaches equilibrium slowly. My
ass...

------
bfrog
Is it really any surprise no one is bothering to keep following the upgrade
windmill money shakedown? My 5 year old laptop works just as well with gmail,
youtube, and google docs as my 8 year old desktop etc etc. There's very little
reason to keep on the upgrade bandwagon right now. The innovation of software
has more or less flat lined for the end user machine... for now.

------
peferron
My wife's iPad 2 slowed down to a crawl after updating to iOS 8. She doesn't
use it anymore because of that. Obviously Apple doesn't want iOS devices more
than 5 years old to remain in use either.

In the meantime I've upgraded my parents' PC from Win XP to Win 10 and it runs
as fast or even faster than before.

I agree with the Apple exec that it's really sad.

------
mirimir
> There are really only two reasons why people might have a computer that’s
> more than five years old: 1) They can’t afford an upgrade. 2) They don’t
> need an upgrade.

There's a third: they wouldn't trust an upgrade :) Just where to draw the line
isn't obvious. But it's probably closer to 10 years old than five.

------
mchahn
This thread is so long that I may be repeating what has already said, but ...

I converted to Linux from Windows about a year ago. An unexpected but great
benefit is that I have been able to pull PCs 5 to 10 years old out of my
garage and now they run like brand-new. I should be good for a while.

------
Philipp__
iPad neds to change to the point where it wouldn't be called and recognized as
an iPad, or just die. That device is in technological gap right now, getting
beaten by newer more modern devices that evolved from iPad form. It annoys me
as hell what Apple is doing right now. For first few years I thought "Thank
you God Cook is keeping it simple and well defined as it was under Jobs", but
now I am afraid off repeating history. Wheel always turn, and I would be
really sad to see 90s Apple before Jobs came back. I enjoy in their computers
a lot, and they will always be main thing from Apple, at least to me. I bought
second iPhone 5s a month ago because it simply does the job for me... While I
was Apple fanboy, every consecutive year I get more and more disappointed.

------
ixtli
I understand why someone would feel this way but the unreconcilable reality is
this: [http://windows.microsoft.com/en-
us/windows/lifecycle](http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle)

The majority of those machines Apple is "mocking" are running operating
systems that have known exploits in the wild and people are doing their
personal banking on them. The shitty, stuck up delivery doesn't change the
fact that it actually would be better and more private for people to dump
their unsupported windows xp/vista/7 boxes and use an iPad Pro. Then, at
least, they'd have a semblance of security.

I'm not even willing to say that Apple didn't intend to mock the poor but the
facts remain regardless of delivery or intent. I think we can agree that for
the majority of the people we're talking about here, "They don’t need an
upgrade" is simply not the case.

------
georgeglue1
I'm preaching to the choir here, but the obvious third case the author omits
is 'semi-technical folks who don't want to deal with the friction of a new
environment', which is not so offensive.

And 600 million 5+ year PCs seems like a low number...

------
typon
Is everyone here really acting incredulous at a giant corporation promoting
consumerism?

------
Karunamon
This just reads like _trying really hard_ to be offended by something.
Literally any comment about legacy hardware (hell, even the word "legacy")
could be interpreted this way if the author reaches hard enough.

------
Sarki
This Apple Keynote 2015 video extract speaks for itself:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UOmR_xSBM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4UOmR_xSBM)

------
beyondcompute
I am using a 2011 laptop. I am not poor. I understand Apple is being sad (it's
a business) that I don't buy new hardware (I feel there's no more return over
the investment). I also agree that tablets are closer to the present (not the
"future", ha-ha) of computing but I am software developer and I will gladly
switch to iPad pro only when I have an access to terminal, all the usual unix
tools, homebrew and the ability to compile/run the usual web-dev software:
servers, database systems, programming languages (and to easily connect my
mechanical keyboard). Apple is not mocking the poor. Calm down, let's get back
to work.

------
jayfk
I bought a Mac Pro 4,1 from 2010, flashed it to the 5,1 firmware, upgraded the
CPU, added a Graphics Card, 4x 3TB drives and a PCIe SSD blade.

Best thing I've ever did in terms of apple hardware.

~~~
9999
I just did the same thing! I went with the 5,1 though, putting 5690s in there.
I was going to buy a maxed Macbook Pro, but they didn't announce anything and
I have work that needs to get done.

If you maxed out the RAM, have you thought about doing a RAM disk?

------
edandersen
The correct solution would be to provide an x86 build of iOS (which they must
have) with mouse support to install on these aging desktops. They'll make a
cut on selling apps.

------
drivingmenuts
It's marketing - you pit the have-nots against the haves to make the have-nots
want to have and the haves to want more.

If that makes you angry, then you need to upgrade your thin skin.

------
sickbeard
Story time! My gf and I went to take pictures of some expensive cars at an
Audi dealership. While there one of the nicely dressed sales people started
talking to us about the Q7. He quoted about 70k cdn as a starting price and
argued, sure it was an expensive car but it lasts longer and you save money in
the long run.

I think maybe that's what apple was trying to get across, buy some quality
hardware that is updated regularly instead of spending low on cheap things.
It's a poor argument for sure but I wouldn't call it out of touch because it
is the defacto argument sales people try to use to get you to purchase more
expensive things.

~~~
stinos
_expensive car but it lasts longer and you save money in the long run_ is not
equivalent to _buy some quality hardware that is updated regularly instead of
spending low on cheap things_. You left out that part where it says _save
money in the long run_. Which is also exactly the thing which is extremely
likely _not_ going to happen with Apple hardware.

------
nkrisc
I think the author's second point brings up something important:

If I've replaced every component in my desktop computer, even the case at one
point, is still the same computer?

------
kitsune_
I have an i7 930, I bought in 2010. Like hell I could benefit from a USD 600
iPad Pro. His statement actually only shows me how preposterous it is to buy
an iPad.

------
scblock
The sanctimoniousness in here is especially ironic given the general attitude
of HN and YC about money and technology. It's hard to take you seriously.

------
Tycho
Hmm. I use a 2011 MacBook Air and the thing performs (and looks) like it's
brand new. With the latest OS. I have no plans to upgrade it whatsoever.

------
roboto584903
A 2011 Mac mini with a quad core processor has more processing power than any
current model, while the price has stayed the same. Now that's sad.

------
Joof
There's a lot that those 5 year old PCs can do that those shiny new iPads
can't. In most other cases, they get the job done anyway.

------
robmcm
The elephant in the room here is that Apple support their products for longer
than anyone in the industry.

Support for legacy iOS devices and macs is very impressive.

------
placeybordeaux
My well over 5 year old computer just got a graphics card that will push it
into vive VR range.

Thanks for the advice of getting a ipad pro, bro.

------
mattkrea
5 years is a little short of a time frame but this wasn't mocking poor
people.. this is a bit much.

------
seivan
Clickbait. Pure and simple. I felt the same way when my parents used PCs until
I got them iOS devices.

------
ArcticCelt
"Let them use iPad Pros"

------
sunasra
I think they forgot 'Innovations are based out of Tradition'

------
wodenokoto
I saw the screenshot of the slide and thought they meant old software and
mulled quite a bit about the wording.

I have a mac that's over 5 years old and I'm quite proud of the fact that the
hardware is still good. Apparently I am bringing shame to Apple.

------
msie
This is how much im going to spend on this stupid article.

------
grandalf
The article is reactionary and click bait.

------
eximius
Never attribute to malice which might otherwise be explained by ignorance...

Though this might be a bit of both.

------
RUG3Y
I'm upset that Bugatti doesn't make cars that poor people can afford.

------
analognoise
Are we seriously that sensitive now? The guy is trying to sell computers.

------
Wonderdonkey
I'd been exclusively with Apple since 1989 when I bought my first Mac (an SE
with dual HD floppy drives and a whopping 400 MB external hard drive). I stuck
with Apple through the difficult years and then even became the editor of a
multi-title Mac publishing operation. Apple loved me so much they gave me a
loaded iPod for my birthday one year. I don't know how many people they've
done that for, but not many, I'm guessing.

But things started to change with the success of the iPhone and then the iPad.
We Mac fanatics used to say that any success for Apple was a win for the Mac
platform. But in reality, it hasn't played out that way. The Mac is
languishing, and it's languishing in ways that I can only attribute to intent.
It's becoming more frustrating to use. Files that you see right in front of
you don't come up in a search. Software updates bring rapid obsolescence.
Simple things like "Save As" have been changed in Apple's apps so that now
Shift-Command-S, for example, is the command to "Duplicate" a file, which you
then have to Command-S save. Then when you close out, you have the additional
step of dismissing a save dialog on the original document. The hardware,
obviously, is not being built to last. (Apple's laptops were always frail
things, dating back to my PowerBook Duo and PowerBook 520c, but their desktops
and workstations were always bullet-proof; they are not anymore.)

It's a bunch of little things and big things combined to make a very
frustrating experience.

This December, I decided to jump ship. I bought a Surface Pro 4. The hardware
is awesome (Core i7 with 16 GB RAM). The software needed some manual
intervention, but it's coming along. (Microsoft didn't include the WinTab
driver, for example, so there was no pressure sensitivity for some apps. And
there was no documentation available for it. And frankly Apple's keyboard
shortcuts for special characters are better than Microsoft's, but I've been
able to emulate those.)

I don't even think about what platform I'm on when I'm working now (except
when I use Dreamweaver CS6 because Adobe is freaking horrible and can't deal
with Microsoft's trackpad and wants to force me to rent CC, which I will never
do).

I never considered an iPad or iPad Pro for a second. They are useless to me.
When I get a unit in, it just gathers dust. There's nothing "pro" about it
unless your profession is typing e-mails and visiting Web pages. Plus, I
actually like computers. I'm old enough that they are still like science
fiction to me. I still have dreams about them. And I like to be able to get
into the software guts of my computers and mess around in there.

I also refuse to consider the iPhone. Not as long as there are Android phones
that have expandable storage and a removable battery. Plus every time I have
to deal with one of my kids' iPhones, especially when I have to deal with
iTunes on top of that, I want to punch Apple so badly.

And most importantly, I don't want to be at the bottom of the food chain in
Apple's iTunes ecosystem. And that's all Apple's customers have become.

------
746F7475
Being this mad over some random comment...

Either upgrade or not, no one cares.

------
DrNuke
You don't need to be the Pope to understand that money is the shit of the
Devil and Apple is a big good carrier itself.

------
golemotron
This brings hyper-sensitivity to a new level.

Perhaps to make sure no one's feelings are hurt, all ads for new products
should be banned.

------
xutopia
Give me a break! That was not a jab at poor people. It was explaining how a
market there is.

If you want to see a jab at poor people look at Gainsbourg burn a 500 franc
note (about 100USD at the time) on live television. That's a jab at poor
people
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMq3Zr9_ARE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMq3Zr9_ARE)

------
FussyZeus
While I think the comments about laughing at the poor are on point, the other
half of this seems a little "trying to be offended." Yes it could've been
worded better but it's a joke around our office that the PC's need to be
replaced after 1-2 years, where we have Macbooks that have been in service for
more than 5 with little to no issues.

I think it's generally accepted common knowledge that Mac's age far better
than PC's, maybe not so much on desktops, but laptops? Definitely. I have a
custom built PC at home myself and I'd never trade it for a Macbook of my own,
but after using a macbook from the company for the last few years, I can't
ever go back to a Windows laptop.

~~~
sickbeard
but they don't need to be replaced if they are still in use 5 years. I do have
a desktop OS I bought maybe 4 years ago, it's not super fast but I have no
desire to replace it because its not broken and runs w10 just fine.

