
American Dialect Map - bifrost
http://aschmann.net/AmEng/
======
aaronbrethorst
I was wondering if the map would capture the Alaska Mat-Su Valley/Minnesota
connection. Back in Fall 2008, people started asking me why I, being from
Minnesota, talked like Sarah Palin, doncha know. I was amused to discover an
article that October which explained that the US Government had relocated a
bunch of Minnesotans to Alaska in the 1930s[1] as part of a government relief
program, eh.

edit: regarding that American accent quiz elsewhere in the thread[2], I score
a 93% 'north central' accent: _"North Central" is what professional linguists
call the Minnesota accent. If you saw "Fargo" you probably didn't think the
characters sounded very out of the ordinary. Outsiders probably mistake you
for a Canadian a lot._

[1]
[http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2008/10/wha...](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2008/10/what_kind_of_accent_does_sarah_palin_have.html)

[2] <http://lewrockwell.com/spl3/american-accent-quiz.html>

~~~
erydo
So, I actually grew up in the Mat-Su Valley. I lived in Palmer (a quick bike-
ride from Wasilla) from 1987 through 2004. I was born in '86. My grandparents
were some of the original settlers in the area in 1936.

Sarah Palin's accent is _not_ typical there, nor even common. My own and those
of my friends growing up would probably be classified squarely as "General
American" and unaccented. I recall knowing exactly one person with a
noticeable Minnesotan accent while I was growing up, and I think they were
actually Minnesotan.

As far as I can tell, calling upon the influence of a portion of Minnesotan
settlers 80 years ago to explain Palin's atypical accent is more of a back-
justification than a real explanation of cause-and-effect.

~~~
benaiah
Too bad I missed you - I've been growing up here for the last 18 years. Lived
in Talkeetna for a while, now I'm near Wasilla, soon to be in Anchorage for
school.

And you're absolutely right. Palin's accent is very atypical of the accent
here. The accents are very eclectic, because the population is, but it's
generally unaccented. I might add that her politics are atypical - despite her
being a very conservative politician on the national scene, she was actually
among the most left-leaning Republican politicians up here.

~~~
triplesec
she's comparatively left-leaning there?! Maybe immigration came across the
Bering Sea and there are a lot of descendants of Genghis Khan there!

Seriously though, thank you: local crowd-sourced knowledge is very welcome.

------
erikpukinskis
This would more accurately be called "White United States Dialect Map". I
clicked through all of the videos from Mississippi, a state which is 37%
black, and there is not a single video featuring a black person. From what I
can tell there is no acknowledgement whatsoever of the fact that non-white
people exist in America and speak distinct languages from white people.

I don't know if it's racist to make a map exclusively of white people's
accents, but it's definitely racist to call it an American Dialect Map.

Also, the map seems only to cover the United States. America extends up to the
Arctic and down to Cape Horn.

Edit: Just noticed the section "Classical Southern and African American
Vernacular English". The author basically writes off Black language as
"derived from Southern English", which is a cop out. And "African American"
doesn't begin to cover the wide range of non-white people in the U.S. Many
black people are not from Africa, and many people of color are not black.

~~~
JPKab
I suppose you want him to have an English dialect map that includes Spanish
speaking countries? It might ease your sensibilities, but it would be
meaninglesss.

While it must be truly invigorating to get the rush of moral superiority you
feel by pointing out perceived racism, it is absurd nit-picking that allows
you to arrive at your conclusion.

Every other nation in the Western Hemisphere has a name that allows the
citizens to be uniquely identified: Mexican, Canadian, Haitian, Brazillian,
Ecuadoran, etc. Tell me, what do you propose we call citizens of the United
States of America, other than "Americans"? I once was the only American
working at an international school. One time, and one time only, a young
Spanish man from Madrid made a stink when I referred to myself as "American."
The 2 Argentinians, the 1 Brazillian, and 3 Englishmen in attendance all
rolled their eyes and collectively told him off with the same question I just
asked you. It's absurd, it's over sensitive, and it screams out "Pay attention
to me! I'm pointing out oppression!!"

The author doesn't try to cover AAVE because the vast majority of the African
American population outside of the South emigrated FROM the South less than 3
generations ago. There's an entire field of study on AAVE, and its not his
field. FYI, I'm from the south, and to most northerners, AAVE and "white"
southern dialects sound extremely similar, to the point where a white Seattle
teenager I encoutnered saying "yall" picked it up from the hip hop culture he
was immersed in. It's not necessarily that AAVE is derived from white
southern, its that the two dialects grew around each other, with rather
extensive interaction between poor whites and black slaves in the rural south.
I would say the influence is surely two way, and know for a fact that many of
the words my family uses are African in origin.

~~~
pessimizer
Black people in the south (and north) speak many different dialects, some that
would be completely omitted if black people were completely omitted. They, of
course, exist on a continuum with historical (and current) white dialects. All
American dialects exist on a continuum of historical and current British
dialects, so could we just leave Americans out as a special field of study,
even when studying Americans? As a black person (along with 12% of the
population), with roots in this country from before there was a country here,
I resent the implication that I am a special field of study that can be
ignored when studying "Americans." Talking about recent immigrant dialects is
a cop-out.

>it must be truly invigorating to get the rush of moral superiority you feel
by pointing out perceived racism

Bashing people who point out possible moral failings in an enterprise as doing
it in order to bask in a sense of moral superiority is about as intellectually
vacuous as bashing people who point out logical or factual inconsistencies as
elitist snobs or ivory tower eggheads. Shameful.

------
bentcorner
These are cheesy, but I found this "what American accent are you?" to be
interesting: <http://lewrockwell.com/spl3/american-accent-quiz.html>

I don't know if this map had such a quiz - I was looking for one and couldn't
find it. It's interesting to compare notes with the quiz if you work with
people from across the US (what do you mean, "bag" doesn't rhyme with
"vague"?)

~~~
mindcrime
Hmm.. funny, I'm from the South (albeit not the "deep south") and according to
this quiz, my accent is "Northeast". I guess I shouldn't be surprised though:
when I was a kid, my parents used to tell me things like "You talk funny, you
sound like you're from up North" and "you talk too fast" and what-not. Not
sure exactly how I wound up with a "northeast" accent.

Then again, most people I meet, who aren't from the South, say they think I
have no noticeable accent at all, and guess that I'm from somewhere in the
Midwest. Good grief.

Language is a funny old thing...

 _what do you mean, "bag" doesn't rhyme with "vague"?_

Wait, where does "bag" rhyme with "vague"?

~~~
hcolomb
_"You have a Midland accent" is just another way of saying "you don't have an
accent." You probably are from the Midland (Pennsylvania, southern Ohio,
southern Indiana, southern Illinois, and Missouri) but then for all we know
you could be from Florida or Charleston or one of those big southern cities
like Atlanta or Dallas. You have a good voice for TV and radio._

Interestingly, it seems to have pegged me mostly correctly. I've lived all my
life in and around Atlanta. Most people notice a Southern accent on me, but I
definitely don't have a Classical Southern accent.

~~~
wambotron
I got The West, which had a very similar description. I'm from PA, fwiw.

------
ineedtosleep
As someone who's had thier undergraduate studies in Linguistics with an
emphasis on Applied Linguistics, this site's a sight for sore eyes (no pun
intended). The one thing that's always stayed with me, for whatever reason, is
my fascination with the Boston Brahmin accent[1][2]. It's always been a great
example of the progression of accents/dialects -- it's like eavesdropping on a
conversation that took place 100+ years ago (in the United States).

That aside, the site unfortunately is in dire need of some love, especially
considering the density of information on the page and on the maps. I'd be
willing to help out if the site owner's poking around through HN.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Brahmin_accent>

[2] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfR4DLXYpCw>

------
Fuzzwah
As an Aussie who is living in Phoenix and has lived in Kentucky I've really
enjoyed the variety of dialects I've run into so far.

I'm not sure if it is due to coming from a culture which pulls in media from
all over the english speaking world or just a personal "gift" but I really
don't find any accent difficult to understand.

Where as I've found that occassionally people I've met in the US have a hard
time understanding me (and more so my Aussie wife, who speaks faster and
quieter than me), and also mention that they have trouble understanding other
dialects from around America.

~~~
rmc
_Where as I've found that occassionally people I've met in the US have a hard
time understanding me_

My spouse is from England and we live in Ireland. Here, Irish people will have
a lot of exposure to English accents (though TV & film), however English
people will not have had as much exposure to Irish accents. (There is much
more English TV than irish TV, and much more English TV is shown in Ireland
than Irish TV showsn in England).

As a result, there is an asymmetry. Irish people will understand the accent of
an English person, but not vice versa. But the Irish person may presume that
the English person can understand them as well as they can understand the
English person, so they probably talk fast and use idioms, etc.

So you might have the same situation. Remember just because you can understand
their accent fine, doesn't mean they can understand yours!

~~~
triplesec
Also you find the TV effect on many of the actual accents. Cockney (E London
dialect) glottal stops have turned up in Glasgow (Scotland) children because
of the very popular BBC Cockney TV soap Eastenders.
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3531075.stm>

------
rosser
I'd always taken "dialect" to refer more to idiomatic differences than
pronunciation differences in regional language usage. The canonical example in
the US being the variation in what people call a carbonated beverage, whether
it's "soda", "pop", "coke" (note the lower case: in parts of the South, "a
coke" is a carbonated beverage, regardless of brand; if you want a Coke, and
don't want to clarify, you should ask for a "Coca-cola"), or anything else.

~~~
DigitalTurk
>in parts of the South, "a coke" is a carbonated beverage, regardless of brand

I'm curious, is something like Fanta or (carbonated) Ice Tea ever considered a
coke?

To me—not a native english speaker—coke means Coca Cola Coke, Pepsi Coke, or
Dr Pepper. That is, it's synonymous with the French word 'coca' or the Dutch
word 'cola'.

~~~
Highball
I would refer to it as a "drink" or a "drank"

"Do you want a drink?" "yes" "What kind?" "Fanta"

or

"Yall want a drank?" [see above]

~~~
DigitalTurk
Interesting. I thought drink (n.) refered to alcoholic beverages!

Where in the US is this?

~~~
Highball
Alabama.

You are right, its used for alcoholic beverages and non alcoholic beverages so
context is key. Ive never encountered a problem with any confusion. Usually
when its used, its clear whether alcohol is meant.

Alcohol: "Were going out for drinks" "We have a few drinks with dinner"

Non-Alcohol (Coke/Pop/Soda) "We got some drinks at the gas station on the way
over" "Will you get me a drink while you are in the kitchen?" "We have drinks
in the fridge"

I think most people that use it would answer "Coke" if asked because thats
what southerners are supposed to say, but informally "drink" gets used quite
often.

------
jcampbell1
I am totally impressed. There is a tiny place in coastal North Carolina where
people speak with an early 1900's Boston-ish accent because they came over on
fishing boats. There can't be more than 5000 people that speak this way, and I
only know about it because my cousin married one of them (a high-tide'r). I am
glad this mildly interesting fact is actually being recorded.

~~~
steverb
As a native hoi toid speaker I can confirm that we exist, and in numbers
greater than 5000. I'd guess at least 20,000. The accent doesn't magically
disappear once you get off Ocracoke. Quite a few of us woodsers grew up with
it (GGFather migrated from Harker's Island).

------
_fs
Neat information, but that map is very difficult to parse.

~~~
Aardwolf
I fully agree, it would be nice if:

-the map fit on a 1920 pixel width monitor

-the small version had a readable font

-it existed out of colored regions with the name of the dialect inside the region on the map rather than different types of legends everywhere

------
jsonne
This is completely anecdotal, but I've noticed very little difference after
moving from Iowa to Boulder, CO although they're considered different dialects
here. However, I can pick out people who live here from Texas or California
almost instantly as well as anyone from the south/east coast. Of course, I'm
not refuting this at all, just giving my own 2 cents.

~~~
_delirium
I'm not sure if my ears are just bad, but I notice very few differences at
all, not even Texas or California. I've lived in Chicago, Atlanta, Houston,
and Los Angeles, and I've very rarely run into people who sounded like they
had an identifiable regional accent in any of them. If you go to rural areas
it changes—West Texas has some Texas accents—but suburban Houston sounded very
close to suburban Chicago to me, except for a few lexical differences like
"pop" vs. "coke".

~~~
JPKab
There's a bit of selection bias due to the fact that you are reading HN. I can
promise you that the small percentage of people who work in the software field
are a type of educational elite, and you are, generally, going to live in
places and work in offices with other members of the globo-corporate elite.
Also, just to be clear, MANY, MANY people who speak regional dialects at home
or informally will shift into a northeastern, "business standard" dialect when
in a work setting. I should know. I am one of them. My Appalachian accent does
me few favors in business environments.

~~~
_delirium
I'm young enough that I'm thinking more of people I went to school with in
most of those cities, not really professional colleagues: elementary/middle-
school in Chicago, and high-school in Houston. But it's true that they were
middle-class suburban areas, and probably also had a lot of people who moved
around (few of my Houston classmates were multi-generational Texans).

------
jdotjdot
If you're interested in this, you might also be interested in the Atlas of
American English by William Labov, et al (some information about it can be
found here: <http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/home.html>). Brilliant guy.

~~~
alxndr
This is pretty cool too, the Dictionary of American Regional English:
<http://dare.wisc.edu/>

------
EvanKelly
This is awesome, but it unfortunately omits my current state, Hawaii, which
offers an awesome dialect: Hawaiian Creole English [0].

[0]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Pidgin>

~~~
eropple
No, it's mentioned as a derivation of Eastern New England.

~~~
EvanKelly
Wow, good catch. Unsurprisingly, I didn't think to look there. I've never
heard that it has any relation to the Eastern New England dialect.

~~~
JPKab
New England missionaries, I've been told, were the ones who set up the first
English language schools in Hawaii.

------
bifrost
This is pretty cool, I enjoy hearing different accents and dialects, they
remind me that even though most of this country speaks "english" everyone has
their own little pocket of something. I was a little surprised to see that the
SFBA has its own little dialectical changes, but I'm pretty sure its more than
just a few pronunciations.

------
Serow225
As a native mid-continent Canadian, I find it interesting that such large
swaths of Canada are lumped together. For instance, I find the accent of
Albertans quite distinct from Saskatchewan/Manitoba, and BC definitely so.

------
graublau
This is someone's magnum opus.

------
ck2
Is it just me or is the pink (flowing into orange) the main areas of the civil
war?

I mean, compare: <http://www.acws.co.uk/about/images/secede.gif>

<http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/5200/5292/5292.htm>

<http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/7400/7489/7489.htm>

<http://etc.usf.edu/maps/pages/800/809/809.htm>

------
graublau
Now try England!

------
JacobIrwin
I really like the in-depth research that went into the creation of the map. An
interactive version could save some clutter, which isn't to say that I didn't
find this version thoroughly interesting!

------
gammarator
Here's an interesting list of videos of people pronouncing a standard set of
words: <http://sitekreator.com/vaux/meme.html>

------
degroat
It's kind of hard to tell what exactly is going on around St. Louis, but it
seems to imply a similarity with Chicago... which would be very wrong.

~~~
nanidin
Seems about right to me. St. Louis has a distinct accent from the rest of the
state of MO and I've usually noticed that they have a bit of a twang that
reminds me of Chicago.

------
johnward
On rhymes with don in one part but dawn in another part. Dawn and Don sound
the same where I'm from so this doesn't make sense to me.

~~~
JshWright
How about 'on' and 'fawn'?

------
bengl
I hate to nitpick but this is definitely a North American Dialect Map, rather
than just an American Dialect Map.

------
gcb0
maybe adjust your landing page copy based on that?

------
gonzo
No Hawaii. Again.

~~~
eropple
Look under New England. It's mentioned as a derivative of Eastern New England.

------
suyash
This website needs a re-design bad!

~~~
BostX
+1 Exactly this was my first impression!

