
Ask HN: The most impressive non-academic achievement? - neilshevlin
It hit me when filling out an application form that most of my achievements have been largely academic.<p>Other than that I&#x27;ve spent most of my time exercising, socialising and volunteering. Nothing outstanding. I haven&#x27;t done any expeditions, climbed high mountains or led a sports team to victory.<p>I wondered what some of the most impressive things you had seen in young people were.<p>Obviously you will have outliers who have started companies at 16 and sold them for a few hundred thousand etc.<p>But what are the things that you&#x27;ve heard of, or in fact done yourself that you&#x27;ve thought &quot;Yeah wow, thats bloody impressive!&quot;<p>Or perhaps I&#x27;m looking at this question the wrong way?
======
escapologybb
Using my computer.

I had to give up my degree in CompSci because I was becoming quadriplegic
beginning in the early 2000's, And was unable to type. I then spent a decade
working out how to become a computer scientist/robotic/terrible drone flyer.
If that does not sound difficult, imagine coming home from work and finding
out every single light switch, but, lever and key from your keyboard been
removed. What do you do? I asked, you are also in pain.

Also, at the time there was no academic structure available to help, so I had
to do it myself.

(I find this comment incredibly hard to write because I am a northern man from
the UK and emotion is not something we do easily, this feels like boasting to
me even though it answers your question. I am writing it Everybody else who
might be struggling with some insurmountable problem with a very simple point:
Do. Not. Give. Up.

Not ever, and you will either achieve your goal or die trying. You will almost
certainly surprise yourself though.)

~~~
esotericn
As another northern man from the UK, you're an absolute fucking beast, mate.
:)

~~~
escapologybb
You will understand why your comment makes me feel deeply uncomfortable and
incredibly proudTo hear that someone of my peers.

My partner says (and I think she is totally right) that I have major trouble
when I have more than one emotion at the same time!

------
barry-cotter
When you are sixty you will not look back at your achievements at fifteen or
twenty with most pride unless you have completely squandered any gifts and
opportunities you might have. You don’t need to compete against anyone else if
you don’t want to. They’re the star of their show in their heads as you are of
yours.

If you really want to do something impressive go for it. Don’t collect a set
of prestigious certificates without actually achieving anything. Do something
that actually makes a difference. The pseudonymous author of Mother of
Learning[1] spent nine years writing a serial novel. If that’s all they’ve
done with their life it’s a more impressive achievement than getting four
prestige degrees and failing as a VC and CEO.

You do what you want with your life. No one else is ever going to know what
you wanted to achieve unless you tell them. They won’t know what you actually
achieved unless you tell them either.

[1] [https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21220/mother-of-
learning](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21220/mother-of-learning)

------
JacobAldridge
Aged 21, I became the first person in the world to watch more than 60 hours of
films without falling asleep (under controlled conditions), for which I (and
two friends) was awarded a Guinness World Record.

Almost two decades later, that’s the story most people want to hear. In fact,
only a few weeks ago I was interviewed about it on Dublin radio (which then
got a write-up in the _Irish Sun_ ).

I’m also especially proud of my completing the Monopoly Pub Crawl of London
_in order_ for my 30th birthday. But since few people have attempted it, and
most who do it, do it out of order and thus reduce the time required by a
third, it rarely sounds as challenging or impressive as I found it.

People also seem slightly interested that I graduated top of my university
course while also winning the student award for “most lectures attended while
drunk”, co-hosted my own TV program, have written 4 books across 4 genres
(history, architecture, crime fiction, and business), and helped my daughter
visit 19 countries before her first birthday.

~~~
cbanek
First, I love this comment. <3

Second, what films did you watch for the 60 hours?

~~~
JacobAldridge
We started with _Breakfast at Tiffany’s_ , and it was all downhill from there!

One film blurred into the next; time stood still; I believe the final movie
was _Fight Club_ although our choices were cut back when the VHS Player
overheated about 55 hours in.

------
keiferski
The key here is: know your audience. What's impressive to a SV tech
entrepreneur is often incomprehensible, absurd, or simply farcical to someone
like a PhD in Classical Philology, or a tradesman that owns his own small
business. And vice versa - achievement doesn't have a universal definition.
This becomes really obvious when you compare different countries, say, the
U.S. and France, for example.

Figure out how your audience defines _achievement_ and work backwards from
there.

------
zerkten
> Or perhaps I'm looking at this question the wrong way?

Yes. Achievement is much messier than we like to present it. HN is often not a
good place to observe or discuss achievement before there are very polarized
views that don't consider the impact of the achievement, or rail against an
achievement because of the costs.

An example might be Elon Musk, but he could be substituted for many other
people. It doesn't really matter because the pattern is similar. These
individuals have outsized achievements that their core audience lauds. These
achievements have costs, ranging from material impacts through to reputation.
On the path to that achievement there are decision points with costs which
only some people can bear.

The point I want to get to, is that individual achievements aren't the only
kind and most people start to rethink their original ideas of achievement. As
you get older, you have more joint achievements, or you get more satisfaction
from helping others achieve big things.

So, as others have stated, understand your audience and work towards
achievements for them. Just remember that your are more likely to become an
expert in the area and be part of many joint achievements and help others
break through. If you fall into the trap of individual achievement over all
else, then you won't be able to recognize these things.

------
gk1
Is this a question on the application and you're not sure how to answer it?

Achievements are personal. "Achievement," just like "Success," is relative. I
think the question is meant to draw out a personal story about overcoming
obstacles to reach some goal. It doesn't need to be some world record or an
Olympic medal.

Examples:

\- Completing a half-marathon might be a major achievement for someone who's
had life-long health and weight challenges, but not for a college athlete.

\- Earning a college degree is a major achievement for an immigrant whose
family came from a rural area of a developing country where few people
completed school.

\- For a high school student growing up in poverty, just earning enough
through a small business to help parents pay the rent is a big achievement,
without ever making millions or getting acquired.

\- And so on...

It may just so happen that your achievement is uncommon, such as winning an
ultra-marathon or selling a company at the age of 16, but I don't think that's
what the application is looking for.

------
Vivtek
All my real-life achievements were just shit that happened.

Honestly, my most grounding achievement, one that feels more real than
anything else I've done, is that I got hit by a hurricane and, lacking
resources and available contractors, built a new roof myself. Whatever else I
do or fail to do, this roof is a good roof.

------
pjc50
> done any expeditions, climbed high mountains

The thing is, doing those things at 16 is kind of set up for the purpose of
filling in those forms. The UK's "Duke Of Edinburgh Award" scheme pretty much
is designed to produce it. And of course it's part of the pipeline; the
private school I went to _strongly encouraged_ us to do either DofE, or the
military cadets scheme, for at least a year. If you were good enough as an RAF
cadet they'd even let you fly a plane eventually.

Having been placed on the Oxbridge pipeline, I arrived there to meet people
from different parts of the UK with .. different experiences. Acquiring top
marks at the nationwide maths exams despite being at a highly marginalised
school, beyond the ability level of the teachers, despite a bomb going off in
the distance during the exam, is definitely impressive.

------
ragebol
Brace yourself to feel a bit sad as chances are you've not done many or any of
the things suggested here. Few people climb mountains and start companies at
16.

What is wrong with listing academic achievements? Or with volunteering? "With
the volunteering org I'm part of, we've helped X people to Y" etc. IMO, it
does not even have to be attributable solely to you, as many achievements
require a team. If I was an employer, teamwork counts.

------
carapace
> I wondered what some of the most impressive things you had seen in young
> people were.

"11-year-old skateboarder lands 1080"
[https://youtu.be/84VkS17b1P8?t=20](https://youtu.be/84VkS17b1P8?t=20)

> Or perhaps I'm looking at this question the wrong way?

Yes. There are ~8 _billion_ other people on the planet, trying to find a peak
that hasn't already been climbed is probably not a good use of your time
(unless you are truly driven, or called, to something.)

The great secret is to be of service to your fellow beings. If you measure
your achievements by how much you have benefited the people around you you'll
die happy and surrounded by love.

You can't take anything with you but you can affect what you leave behind.

------
rb808
This really doesn't impress me at all: > Obviously you will have outliers who
have started companies at 16 and sold them for a few hundred thousand etc.

What does:

Organizing parties. Knowing a wide variety of people and organizing an event
takes a lot of creativity skill and chutzpah.

Making music, not just good at a single instrument, but be able to play a
variety of instruments, create new tunes, perform and have fun. Knowing the
history and influences is a bonus.

Speaking multiple languages. Its always been too difficult for me.

Looking after people that were seriously sick. Parents/siblings with cancer,
mental problems or disabilities. Its hard the hardest thing in the world. If
you can come out all in one piece I have utmost respect.

~~~
laurentdc
> Knowing a wide variety of people and organizing an event takes a lot of
> creativity skill and chutzpah.

I used to look down on soft skill heavy jobs and tasks thinking it was bs that
only people who failed in "real" tech/engineering would care about, until I
realized how hard it is to get anything more than 3 people to work together,
be on the same page and not stir up drama.

------
cbanek
So it sounds like you're saying young to mean "before entering the job
market?" Of course if you find a good job, hopefully you will have many things
you are proud of working on and doing. I think being a professional, getting
paid, and having people actually make money from the things you do is a pretty
impressive achievement, and even more so if you do it for yourself (run your
own business).

For people still in school, or applying to school (which I'm guessing is the
application you're filling out?), I would say it's about projects. When I was
in high school in 1998, I built a "portable" MP3 player using Linux and old
computer parts that I put into a backpack. It didn't have a monitor, so we
used the keyboard LEDs as control system. It was called the PIMP - the
portable illegal music player.

Was this some impressive achievement that no one else could have done?
Certainly not. But it's something you can talk about. Overcoming challenges
are the achievements, what challenge is interesting to some, but how to
overcome is interesting to more!

------
glitchc
Impressiveness is subjective for all but the most outlandish feats, namely:

\- Buying and selling a company at the age of 16

\- Replicating a Rembrandt blind-folded OR having your original painting sold
at an art auction for value in excess of 6 figures

\- Performing Mozart's Fifth Symphony one-handed at the age of 6

\- Writing 10000 kanji on a grain of rice

In short, you are looking at this the right way. The application is looking
for your most outlandish feat.

Edit: Bulletized list.

~~~
Wistar
In Denmark, I met an 11 year old girl who fluently spoke six languages. I was
impressed but am unsure whether to classify her language skills as academic or
outlandish.

------
Smaug123
I have a friend who had millions of YouTube views (and eventually a published
book) as a teenager for his videos about Lego weaponry.

------
exabrial
Impressive: Road a motorcycle from KC to Key West. Was a pretty sweet trip.
Impressive: Top to Bottom to Top Grand Canyon hike in one day. It was snowing
at the top and 85degrees at the bottom. IDC about that stuff though, it was
fun, but honestly anyone could do it.

I think what gives me most fulfillment is regular, scheduled, planned giving
charity. I do this is two ways, first monetary: As a policy, I don't give
money to panhandlers, but I support a few local shelters (a women specific
one, a food pantry, and a general local fund). Second, I volunteer time
regularly through my church, which supports these missions. Whether it be
participating in service by playing an instrument, using my project
managements skills (I learned from my job) to organize people, or just showing
up to sweat somewhere, I spend several days every month giving time away. And
_that_ gives me purpose, and that gives me a lot of fulfillment.

------
yummypaint
I think of things that go on a resume as honors. I think an achievement is
more personal and probably more difficult to "sell" to others as important.
Some examples: Make a piece of art that takes 100+ hours. learn to speak a new
language. alter popular culture, even if only slightly. teach/mentor the next
generation.

------
dmlorenzetti
Don't discount your volunteer work, especially if you have done it as a young
adult (i.e., from personal conviction rather than due to home/school
pressure). A lot of people will take that as a sign of emotional maturity,
thoughtfulness, or conviction.

I heard through the grapevine, many years after the fact, that during salary
discussions at an outfit that was planning to make me an offer, there was a
small debate about how many years of experience to credit me. By the calendar,
I had $y$ years of work since graduation, but in terms of job experience it
was $y - 2$ years, due to time I spent in Peace Corps. The difference affected
the salary range their internal guidelines indicated I could be offered.

Finally one of the PIs cajoled the "y-2" crowd, saying, effectively, Come on,
he spent two years teaching math in a village with no electricity and no
running water...

------
Non24Throw
Succeeding despite a lack of education, or despite significantly disadvantaged
birth circumstances, will always be the most impressive quality I find in a
young person.

In terms of things you can actually apply without having said disadvantages, I
would say anything that displays a kind of economic maturity, or a bias for
long-term thinking. These are very rare and valuable qualities in all age
groups, but are especially rare in younger people.

You can display that conversationally, by for example asking pointed questions
about a company (or any kind of system) and its relevant external factors, and
then extrapolating to possible future directions and outcomes. Or you can do
any project that interests you for its long-term implications, and talk about
future outcomes, anticipated success or failure scenarios, the potential
impact of known unknowns, etc.

------
qzw
I think you should try to look for an achievement that's personally meaningful
rather than "impressive" to some unknown stranger.

For example, summitting Everest is not as impressive as an achievement as it
once was, not if you've seen the pictures of lines of climbers waiting just
below the peak for their turn. I expect the next thing will be a Disney-style
FastPass for an extra $30k, assuming we ever get over this pandemic. Of course
it's still an arduous, dangerous, and expensive endeavor. But those things
alone don't necessarily make it impressive.

You said that you volunteer. If you've done that on a consistent basis and out
of your own volition, I would find that pretty impressive in a young person.

------
lettergram
Honestly, after having kids of my own (two in <2 years), anyone with a large
family is an achievement.

Budget, time, sanity, work - after having two of my own, I’m constantly
surprised that people can work effectively and raise a family. Having kids
puts you in a place where you have to teach, be calm & collected and provide —
100% of the time. It’s stressful and the vast majority of people (myself
included) choose that life. It’s insanely impressive when I see a family of 4
with a couple successful parents (I.e. decent kids, good house/career)

------
scandox
Met a chap who spent 7 years not talking in a monastery. When I met him he was
a mountain climbers which I'm indifferent to...but the monastery thing
impressed me.

------
AnonC
For me, it’s the realization that having achievements as an aim in life is
overrated. To be content with what’s there (or not there) is an achievement by
itself. It’s not easy, and I haven’t seen many “young people” achieve this.
They’re usually pressured into achieving something so that they can have more
self esteem as a reward. That’s so twisted.

------
bloopernova
Couple of random ones of mine:

Walking again a year after a road accident put me in hospital for several
months, aged 19.

Buying a house and escaping an abusive home, aged 22.

Recognizing the negative baggage I had from my upbringing, deciding to be
better; taking interpersonal skills courses, learning about emotional
intelligence, Buddhism, and self reflection/awareness. Aged 23.

------
sloaken
Riding a bicycle up the east coast of the USA.

Now for most proud of: Organizing a group of people to provide food, once a
month, to people in need.

Both had as a mental note, what would I regret not doing, if the end was soon.
I find 'regret avoidance' a big motivator for myself. With the caveat or, what
will I regret for not doing.

------
grenoire
When I was 15 years old I built a 3D FPS and somebody on PC Gamer wrote an
article about the demo I released. It was a _wild_ week telling my friends
about it, and the fame got over my head to the level that I stopped working on
it.

Ah... being a teenager again...

------
smitty1e
I blew "Amazing Grace" at the summit of Mt. Fuji on a highland pipe in '97.

Which, compared to escapologybb on this page, seems trite.

That gets at a Big Life Point: interpersonal comparisons are only useful
insofar as they inspire.

------
parentheses
achievements put too much of the focus on things that can be completed. these
are things I find impressive in a young person

\- consistently being mindful and compassionate; empathy and ability to listen

\- donating one's time to help those less fortunate - often those who are to
proud to ask

\- being able to converse with those around without seeking to impress or gain
the upper hand

\- respect for wisdom: recognizing that however smart you may be, you're way
behind those who have experienced much of life

------
cm2012
The achievement I respect most? Keeping it together while taking care of a
sick and dependent loved one. It changes everything and is sadly common.

------
seancoleman
Hiked / ran 50 miles in the Grand Canyon rim to rim to rim. Canyons are a
great forcing function for mind over body.

------
swayvil
>I wondered what some of the most impressive things you had seen in young
people were.

Achieved 3rd jhana in concentration meditation.

~~~
mping
Congrats! Did you do that on your own or with a teacher? I find it curious
that you mix jhana which is normally from Theravada/mindful based techniques
and concentration which is normally from Ch'an/Mahayana techniques.

~~~
swayvil
Puddinghead

~~~
mping
I didn't understand your comment. What I meant is jhana is Pali, most
Ch'an/Mahayana sources go back to sanskrit and thus spell it as dhyana. A
Mahayana practitioner saying jhana is as odd as a Theravadin saying dhyana.

------
jimmysong
some random things:

* open source contribution

* getting a book published with a major publisher

* winning a major award or trophy in almost any field/sport

* a blog with a lot of readers (or youtube channel)

* doing anything considered really difficult if you can tell the story in the right way

------
PaulHoule
Volunteering has potential.

------
kipply
If your goal is to diversify achievements for applications, think of other
axes your field. Personal projects, startups, blog posts, etc. Go to YC, work
at a prestigious company, write for a big publication, get a high Codeforces
rating. The list is pretty long!

If you're concerned about _feeling underachieved_ , then just try a variety of
things! They may not be things that others find impressive, or that even you
would think to find impressive. I found physical activity/dance, building a
simple raytracer and making top post on HN to bring a stronger sense of
achievement than getting into YC or college (both of which I worked harder
for). I also think it's important to separate achievements from age if you're
young, otherwise the sense of achievement will start to go away. tldr I think
there's little correlation with what other people find impressive and what I
feel "achieved" about.

------
BerislavLopac
Does surviving a war count?

------
cableshaft
I created a simple video game 16 years ago in about a week's worth of work
that people are still playing and enjoying today, and snowballed into several
fun opportunities. It's a Flash game called Proximity. Here's a review it got
on Newgrounds just a few months ago:

"Now THIS is a strategy game. Though the rules are simple, and the graphics
are even simpler, what matters is the gameplay. And the gameplay here is pure
strategy perfection. Every single move is a shrewd calculation of carefully
contrived advantage, yet your turns pass at a snappy pace. You can glean the
entire board state in little more than a quick glance, yet the board presents
a different tactical situation almost every single turn. The very definition
of depth of gameplay over breadth of content. Extra Credits would be proud."

I built a sequel and submitted it to Microsoft's first Dream Build Play
contest and it ended up being a 3rd place finalist, and was playable at their
XNAFest in Seattle, where a publishing company saw it, saw that I was local,
and brought me in to discuss a possible publishing deal. Halfway into the talk
it morphed into a job interview, and I ended up getting a job there, and got
to work on a game for Xbox Live Arcade, one Sony PSP game (the only game I
worked on with a physical retail copy), and two WiiWare games, so I got to see
the publishing process for all three major console manufacturers in a short
period of time.

During the first year the publisher sent me to GDC (Game Developer's
Conference) in San Francisco. Microsoft had recently contacted me and asked if
I was interested in putting a demo copy of Proximity 2 up on their new Xbox
Live Indie Games service, and I rushed to get a version ready for it, and it
was one of 8 games you could try before the service launched, which
cumulatively were downloaded over a million times. Because of that, they had
it playable on kiosks at GDC the one year I got to attend (I got to watch
people playing it on the kiosk, even), and they even included a brief video of
it in their Xbox Live Indie Games trailer during their keynote address during
that GDC as well, which was awesome.

I held off on the actual release though, since I was working for a publisher
that was still planning to publish it at some point, after we got past a
couple other projects, and because I didn't want it to be a conflict of
interest. It was pretty neat gig, because I was employee #3 at the company, so
I got to go to developers and be treated like an executive, even though I was
anything but. The games we released had some bad luck and didn't sell very
well, though, and the parent company eventually shut down our branch.

That was also right in the heart of the Great Recession, and I had previously
dropped out of college and still didn't have my degree, so I figured I better
go back to school. While in school I worked on getting Proximity 2 ported to
iPhone, because I thought that was a better opportunity I should try to cash
in on, but I didn't market it properly and it ended up not doing super well,
even though it was a faithful port (just lower resolution). I then backported
the additions I made to the mobile version into the Xbox 360 version, added a
few more things, and released that, but by that point it was already 2 years
after the demo was out there, and everyone had pretty much forgotten about the
game. It did okay, but not great.

After I finished my Computer Science degree, I took a stab at working for two
more small companies, one that made mobile apps and games and another that
made Facebook games in Unity, and eventually decided I should get out of the
game industry. I've been working in jobs I've been much less passionate about
ever since, although my software is used by more people than anything I ever
did while working in the game industry (supporting software for a call center
of 90 people, and speech applications for major corporations that have been
used for about 2.5 million calls at this point).

I also started getting into board game design during this time, and eventually
got one of my games signed, and another one was just recently announced to be
a finalist in what's one of the biggest board game design contests in the US,
although because of the pandemic they haven't been able to do the finals so
it's been in limbo for several months now on whether I'll win (it probably
won't, but I'm happy to be a finalist).

I also finally decided to resurrect my Proximity 2 game and I'm trying to
bring it back to desktop and eventually mobile and consoles again. Adding
support for more players, cleaning up the UI, adding localization support,
upscaling graphics to 1080p, mouse support, achievements, and hopefully a
single player campaign and online multiplayer (might not make it into the
initial release).

Doing it on my own time, which is now competing with tons of other ideas I've
had since then and a wife and 2 dogs that need me to spend time with them too,
so it's going a lot slower this time around. Hoping to release something by
the end of this year, though.

It didn't really fit up above, but there's been a few other cool things that
happened with my Proximity game. Apparently it's been used by teachers for
their programming classes sometimes, especially A.I. classes, where students
are tasked with coming up with an A.I. for the game. I know because on three
occasions I've had students hunt me down and ask me for advice for their
project.

Also, I once bought a book called Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns
published by Adobe Press, and while I wasn't mentioned by name, two chapters
were on how to build my Proximity game, and using that to teach the Command
and Memento patterns.

I also got contacted once about making a version for OMGPop's game system,
which unfortunately fell through (I wasn't sure I'd have the time since I was
struggling to get my degree finished that semester anyway), only for me to
discover a year later that they ended up creating Draw Something and got so
big they were bought by Zynga, so I'm kind of curious what would have happened
to Proximity in that situation.

I kinda feel like Proximity could have had a legacy almost on the level of
Tetris if I hadn't made a bunch of missteps and had properly capitalized on
the momentum I had. Oh well. Maybe there's a chance for it to come back,
still.

------
whb07
Bitcoin

------
seesawtron
my hot wife

------
fromtheabyss
Kylie Jenner's net worth is estimated at $1 billion.

Working smart > working hard

~~~
arkitaip
What makes you think she isn't working her ass off?

~~~
barry-cotter
Plenty of people work harder and have nowhere near as much money. That’s a
small part of how you know she’s working smart.

