
Vidoop Is Dead, Employees Getting Computers In Lieu Of Wages - peter123
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/30/vidoop-is-dead-employees-getting-computers-in-lieu-of-wages/?awesm=tcrn.ch_2t3&utm_campaign=techcrunch&utm_content=techcrunch-autopost&utm_medium=tcrn.ch-twitter&utm_source=direct-tcrn.ch
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tlrobinson
_"The company’s liability to you would be reduced by $1000, and you would have
a laptop for $38.25."_

That's one way to look at it. The other way would be you're not getting paid
$1000 for work you already did, but instead getting a laptop worth $250. Guess
it's better than nothing...

~~~
newsio
This was actually common during the last bubble. I've read accounts of people
who were grateful they at least got to keep the laptop -- it let them continue
freelancing.

On the other hand, laptops in the year 2000/2001 cost a lot more than they do
now, and many people had desktop PCs at home.

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dc2k08
I'm wondering what will happen to all the open ID's that were created
including mine and all the accounts they were used on. There's no info on
their site.

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tlrobinson
That's a good reason to use OpenID delegation. As long as you remain in
control of your domain name your OpenID can never become invalid, even if the
provider you delegate to goes out of business.

<https://myvidoop.com/help/what-is-delegation>

Of course that's only a good solution for relatively technical people like us.
Perhaps someone should create a service that automates this process for the
average internet user: pick a domain name and OpenID provider, pay your $10
(per year), and you're done.

~~~
axod
>> "Perhaps someone should create a service that automates this process for
the average internet user:"

Sorry, but the average internet user will never want or understand OpenID
IMHO.

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woadwarrior01
Whats with all the tracking codes in the URL's querystring ?

'awesm': 'tcrn.ch_2t3', 'utm_campaign': 'techcrunch', 'utm_content':
'techcrunch-autopost', 'utm_medium': 'tcrn.ch-twitter', 'utm_source': 'direct-
tcrn.ch'

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andyn
Looks like some sort of google analytics tagging/tracking:

[http://www.epikone.com/blog/2006/11/10/google-analytics-
camp...](http://www.epikone.com/blog/2006/11/10/google-analytics-campaign-
tracking-pt-1-link-tagging/)

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muhamm
Doesn't the company have a contractual obligation to pay you your wages even
if it has to go into debt to do so? I don't see how they could get away with
that.

~~~
patrickg-zill
Yes, that is my understanding. The officers of the company are personally
liable for the cash if there is no other source of funding.

~~~
tptacek
The officers of the company are astronomically unlikely to personally bear any
contractual liability at all, that being the one of the points of
incorporating in the first place.

~~~
patrickg-zill
Actually, you are quite wrong about that... many states have exactly those
provisions, e.g. Colorado

[http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/compensation-
sala...](http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/compensation-
salary/173040-1.html)

20 seconds of google would have shown you that ...

(BTW if your claim of shielding from liability were absolute, then directors
and officers wouldn't need D&O insurance now, would they? )

~~~
eds
No. Your article is from 2002 and, at the end, refers to a case then before
the Colorado Supreme Court. Here's the outcome (2003):

"After finding a lack of precedent from the Colorado Supreme Court construing
individual officer liability under the Wage Claim Act, we certified the
following determinative questions...

1\. Are officers of a now-bankrupt corporation individually liable for the
wages of the corporation's former employees under the Colorado Wage Claim Act?
...

2\. If so, are all officers individually liable due to mere status as officers
or must the officers have been high ranking or active decision-makers? ...

The Colorado Supreme Court then answered the first reframed question, holding
"under Colorado's Wage Claim Act, the officers and agents of a corporation are
_not_ jointly and severally liable for payment of employee wages and other
compensation the corporation owes to its employees under the employment
contract and the Colorado Wage Claim Act." Id. (emphasis added). This response
clearly answers the first question certified by this court and moots our
second question. We REVERSE the district court's summary judgment order..."

<http://ca10.washburnlaw.edu/cases/2003/02/00-1324.htm>

~~~
patrickg-zill
Thanks for the update. I lived in CO in the late 1990s and actually had an
employer take a while to pay me, which is why I incorrectly assumed that the
law was the same, when it has in fact changed.

It is actually more difficult than I thought it would be to locate an accurate
list of which states have which positions in this matter.

It seems that courts in many states are starting to lean against officers
being responsible for unpaid wages.

~~~
tptacek
What's the state where you think officers _are_ responsible for the
contractual obligations of the corporations that employ them?

~~~
patrickg-zill
You are mis-interpreting my point: it is not officers being responsible for
contractual obligations in general, it is (or at least was) an _exception_
carved out for wages owed employees.

There seems to be a lot of debate over when/if an officer can become an
"employer" as defined in the law.

Here are some URLs that cover what I am talking about:

WA:
[http://www.turnaround.org/Publications/Articles.aspx?objectI...](http://www.turnaround.org/Publications/Articles.aspx?objectID=9112)

PDF with more discussion of the issue, includes discussion of the Federal FLSA
and the case of CA: [http://web.omm.com/files/upload/D&O%20Liability-
WARN%20A...](http://web.omm.com/files/upload/D&O%20Liability-WARN%20Act.pdf)

NY (10 largest shareholders of non-public company held liable):
[http://www.eminutesonline.com/why-in-the-world-would-
anyone-...](http://www.eminutesonline.com/why-in-the-world-would-anyone-with-
employees-incorporate-in-new-york/)

Federal law (FLSA):
[http://www.klehr.com/?t=11&la=690&format=xml](http://www.klehr.com/?t=11&la=690&format=xml)

Since the company that is not paying is often headed for bankruptcy, these
situations often spill over to bankruptcy court, where the judge has a great
amount of leeway to determine who gets paid and when.

~~~
tptacek
I read your first example (CA), which states:

 _In Reynolds v. Bement, 36 Cal. 4th 1075 (2005), the California Supreme Court
observed that, “[U]nder the common law, corporate agents acting within the
scope of their agency are not personally liable for the corporate employer‟s
failure to pay its employees‟ wages.” Id. at 1087._

Now I'm finished reading, and, hopefully, talking about this. Like I said,
it's extremely unlikely that the owners, investors, or officers of a VC-funded
company would be on the hook for salaries after the company went bankrupt.
That's a good thing. Surprisingly few things need to go wrong for a company to
BK. Who'd start a company if that event meant they'd lose their house?

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s_baar
Read it as "Voodoo is dead, employees getting computers in lieu of wages" Was
all, "Sweeeeet!"

