

Google failing to pay Android developers - palebluedot
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/04/android_marketplace_payments/

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dpcan
I get my payouts from Google.

The reason there is so much frustration among Android developers is merely due
to the lack of communication from the Google Android Team about anything.

We feel like we are on our own, in the dark, and not important. Every problem
feels like a HUGE problem because there is no open line of communication. We
scream for help into the Market forum which might as well be a black hole.

Why not talk to us?

How hard would it be to post often to a popular thread on the Market forum?
How hard would that be? What's the hang-up? Just a little bit more of a human
touch and Android devs would all get to breathe easier and we'd love
developing on Android even more.

It's so simple. Talk to us.

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
To be fair, it seems that it's only the Market team (or, if you use AdMob, the
advertising team as well) that is so silent.

There are a number of Google Android developers who post to the various lists
on a regular basis, answering tons of questions and quickly promising to fix
bugs when they're identified.

There's a going theory that, because the Market involves money (like AdMob),
the developers are under gag order from Google to not say anything, and all
communications that do come out are filtered through legal.

I'm not justifying that as a practice, but just putting it out there that it
might NOT be the fault of a reticent (or incompetent) Market team.

Though given the number of Friday-night releases that break things over the
weekend (like a recent "oops! lost half your reviews!" bug), the incompetence
theory has a lot of advocates.

~~~
dpcan
How can providing the most basic level of support be under a gag order?
Especially when their support pages recommend using the forums?

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
Again, I'm not DEFENDING this position, but...

Assume you've got a a super-successful app making $100k/month. Then a bug in
the market messes up its ratings (like it did last Friday) and as a result
they lose ranking and several hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next
few months. They complain about it in a forum, and a helpful engineer says,
"Oh, yes, that's a mistake we pushed to the Market. Sorry our testing
procedures aren't better. I'll fix it right away!"

Bang, they've just publicly admitted negligence, and that developer could sue
them for the lost $$$.

Again, I have seen NO proof of this. It's a going theory primarily because the
money-oriented arms of Google (Market, AdMob, AdSense) are also the three that
are the most tight-lipped over support issues.

~~~
mrich
I don't see how they could be sued, even over such a comment, since I'm sure
they don't make any guarantees regarding the availability of the market, much
less for the ranking/search functionality. You would have to prove malice or
gross negligence but I think for the latter you would need good lawyers to
have a chance.

~~~
SomeCallMeTim
You can be sued (in the US) over anything. They could certainly be sued for
screwing things up without even any public evidence, but as you point out it's
difficult to prove gross negligence, so most people won't bother.

But certainly it becomes much easier if you have evidence from someone inside
the company.

YOU don't really need to see how they could be sued, or how an engineer's
comments could put them at risk, in any event. If Google's legal counsel
believes it to be a risk, then that COULD be what's going on behind the
scenes.

And this is exactly the kind of thing that a lawyer would advise, which is
really my only point.

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pacemkr
I have an app in the webOS app store. Palm/HP have been absolutely great about
payouts. There have been two problems with the payments so far, both due to
technical issues, and they have been addressed promptly and professionally
(they sent us money).

Last issue was just last week, where their online interface reported inflated
sales numbers. A few days ago I received an email saying that HP will send us
the difference in the next payout, even though the actual payouts were
accurate based on actual download numbers.

They also had the Hot Apps contest running where both of my apps won. The
payouts were prompt, they even sent more to take care of PayPal fees. So in
the end I got the exact dollar amount in that I won in my bank account.

They've been good to developers in general.

------
gte910h
They also changed my google checkout payment schedule for non-android payments
to "next month payouts", meaning bills for development were delayed up to 30
days from when the client got them to me.

Google doesn't feel like they "get" this "people want and need their money
thing".

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nekgrim
This + the search problem (<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2811756>).

Google seems to forget that apps make a OS popular, not the OS itself.

~~~
recoiledsnake
For all the hubris about their exclusive hiring method and engineering
culture, these are pretty run-of-the-mill egregious bugs to be left hanging
for months. Maybe Google does not invest much in Android because it's more of
a sideshow.

~~~
ry0ohki
I think that's exactly the problem though. With Comp Sci and Academia people
from top to bottom, you don't get enough people that care about customer
service or business issues.

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wccrawford
I see nothing to prove this has been happening more than a week. Just some
claims that it's been happening since last year, which might have been a
different problem altogether.

Google's working on it.

~~~
palebluedot
I've been noticing the problem, but as far back as I have noticed it
personally thus far is to 7/26... some spot checking from 7/11 shows the web
orders going through fine then, at least for me. But from 7/26 to now, my web
based orders have been charged, but I have received no payout for them.

I have confidence that it will eventually get sorted out.

When the market breaks (it does so occasionally for developers), I wish there
was more immediate feedback available from Google. The forums are a good
start, but they tend to get filled quickly with melodrama on any hot issue.
But all in all I am happy as an Android developer.

------
palebluedot
One thing the article mentions is that there is a semicolon that can be seen,
indicating it is a web-based order. That is not the case universally, it seems
- my web-based orders do not have a semicolon after the app name on the order
summary page.

You can tell, however, that it is a web-based order by the full customer
contact info (including real email), as well as the additional developer-
specific order number at the bottom of the page, when viewing the order
details.

~~~
veeti
Another small detail seems to be that VAT is listed as a separate item in the
order invoice for web market purchases. On purchases made from the on-device
market, the VAT is just mentioned under the total sum.

To me the Market feels like it's been hacked and superglued on top of
Checkout. Strange inconsistencies like this and some other bugs.

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th0ma5
I haven't had any problems with Edgy and got a deposit yesterday.

