
Cat5 to replace HDMI later next year? - allwein
http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/7/1/tv-business-kisses-hdmi-goodbye/
======
jws
Seems like they have invented their own signaling standard. They claim to move
uncompressed HD video, audio, 100 watts of power, 100mbs of ethernet, and
"control signals" over the cable.

I initially assumed they were just using a protocol over ethernet, but it
looks like they have something better worked out.

They don't get into details, but it looks like 10-20Gbps for the video data.
The 100 watts of power is twice what can be achieved with Power-over-ethernet.

The visible fly in the ointment is looming confusion over internet ports and
AV ports since they use the same connector.[1]

[1] And a thousand curses on the toad at IBM that used identical connectors
for keyboards and mice but incompatible protocols. That was probably a 1
million man hour mistake.

~~~
reitzensteinm
What gets me about the keyboard/mouse ports is that it took over ten years for
them to get a colour coding standard! The green/purple spec came out in 99, by
which time USB was already starting to take off.

~~~
tomsaffell
Funny story: I was working on USB at IBM in '98, and because of the new
green/purple color convention for PS2, the designers wanted to similarly
color-code two of the USB ports green/purple. It took a little explaining, and
pointing at the USB 1.0 spec to convince the design folks that it wasn't a
good idea.

~~~
astrodust
When people need to know where the "Any" key is, maybe having a suggested port
for mouse and keyboard wasn't such a bad idea.

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dfox
Not to nitpick, but physical layer for TMDS (digital video protocol used by
HDMI and DVI-D) _IS_ Cat5 twisted pair :)

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jacobolus
Whatever happened to <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Peak> ?

(hyped and hyped a few months ago as the ultimate cable answer to everything,
replacing USB, firewire, ethernet, HDMI, SATA, etc.)

~~~
wmf
The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. For
every protocol that caught on, there was a similar competing protocol proposed
at the same time that never caught on.

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hyperbovine
This is such a good idea that it must have no chance of ever becoming reality.

~~~
nailer
If it has come out before HDMI and DP, it would indeed have been a great idea.

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astrodust
Now if only someone can invent a connector that doesn't have a brittle little
tab that is bound to snap off or snag on wires. HDMI and DP connections are
far more rugged.

~~~
anigbrowl
Indeed so, but consumers are suspicious of new connectors, as are motherboard
manufacturers, fearing that they're being asked to spend a bunch of money on a
new format that won't connect to anything else. Like...er...HDMI. Upgraded
functionality to something everyone already knows (cat5) is a much easier sell
psychologically.

I don't think the brittleness is a big issue. Pro a/v techs often use heavy
duty cat5 cables with rugged connectors (<http://www.amphenol-
airlb.com/Rugged.html> \- this is the best supplier IMHO). Then, making cables
just needs a supply of jacks and a crimping tool - neither is expensive, and
being able to do field repairs or make additional cables is a lot better than
some custom connector that can only be built in a factory. Finally, power and
signal on the same cable is a huge win.

In the video world, it's very desirable to be able to quickly feed signal over
varying distances in some new location you've never been into before and will
only occupy for a few hours. HDMI cables are a pain, like all fiberoptic
cables - very expensive, short runs, and they're so delicate that they need
lots of structural shielding which makes the cable springy and hard to manage
(which usually necessitates an extra pair of hands). Then, monitors and
cameras need power, which means either annoying little adapters plus
additional heavy power cables, or else heavy battery packs (which cost $$$).

If the component electronics for this standard are affordable and reliable
(and I expect they will be, given similar existing products) then the pro
video community will be all over this in short order - a breakout box that
delivers 12v DC, has audio & video i/o, and hooks onto a belt will be a
godsend for many people even if the camera and sound gear doesn't catch up for
a few years. 100w is plenty of power for most requirements.

From what I see of the evaluation units ([http://www.valens-
semi.com/products/5play-evaluation-kit.asp...](http://www.valens-
semi.com/products/5play-evaluation-kit.aspx)) the technology should be easily
deployable, and 'revolutionary' would not be too strong a word to use in this
context.

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SecretAgentMan
Monster might have a hard time selling Cat5 cables for $60 a pop.

~~~
tsuraan
Probably not: <http://www.usa.denon.com/productdetails/3429.asp>

~~~
samdk
The Amazon reviews for that cable are wonderful:

[http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-
Cable/dp/B0...](http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-
Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1279119636&sr=8-1)

A small sampling: (there are many, many more)

    
    
        Transmission of music data at rates faster than the
        speed of light seemed convenient, until I realized I
        was hearing the music before I actually wanted to
        play it. Apparently Denon forgot how accustomed most
        of us are to unidirectional time and the general laws
        of physics. 
    
    
        I can't recommend this cable enough. I bought a set of 
        four for my home cinema setup, and I haven't regretted
        it at all. [...] When I sit down and listen to the 
        transcendent music they produce, I can feel my pain 
        just drift away. Sometimes I even play a CD, but that's
        not really necessary.

~~~
Groxx
My personal favorites revolve around Tuscan Whole Milk[1] and Uranium Ore /
Yellow Cake[2]. Especially the top-rated milk review, and how often the
uranium ore shows up when you're searching for yellow cake mix :)

[1]: [http://www.amazon.com/Tuscan-Whole-Milk-
Gallon-128/product-r...](http://www.amazon.com/Tuscan-Whole-Milk-
Gallon-128/product-reviews/B00032G1S0) [2]: [http://www.amazon.com/Uranium-
Ore/product-reviews/B000796XXM...](http://www.amazon.com/Uranium-Ore/product-
reviews/B000796XXM/)

~~~
wallflower
Tuscan whole milk has not been sold for years. Some of the reviews are proof
exercising your creative muscles is a win.

------
rythie
I don't get how they can get 10Gbps down cat5e over 100m when 10GBase-T
requires cat6a to do that.

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Sirocco
Getting away from HDMI will be nice if for no other reason than not having to
buy hideously overpriced switch boxes. Also, the HDCP fiasco will come to an
end. I'm sure that last bit will be replaced with something equally absurd.

~~~
jwhitlark
I believe it also uses HDCP.

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onlyone0001
Lovely. First "reinvent" 3D, used by nVidia and other for years. Then
"reinvent" basic ethernet. Just lovely. I guess they are learning the game
from Apple. After all, they managed to "reinvent" 8-bit gaming. When Microsoft
reinvents Windows 3.1, you'll see how this game is played! :D Ahh. Here:
<http://xkcd.com/732>

~~~
CodeMage
_> Here: <http://xkcd.com/732> _

Here: [http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2010/04/comic-732-low-
quality....](http://xkcdsucks.blogspot.com/2010/04/comic-732-low-quality.html)

You might want to read what they're claiming they will do _before_ writing it
off as "reinventing" basic ethernet.

~~~
Groxx
* _ahem_ __*

IT'S HUMOR.

~~~
CodeMage
Really? Wasn't it supposed to be funny, then? ;)

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corysama
My local computer shop sells passive DVI over CAT5 adapters that claim to work
up to 50 feet. Seeing this really drove home how overpriced digital video
cables really are.

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jcromartie
<http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html>

~~~
pixelbath
Are you implying the article is just hype? I don't really see the relation.

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sailormoon
_"Currently, the specification only allows for a 100Mb/sec Ethernet
connection, but the alliance claims HDBaseT will be scalable up to 1Gb/sec in
the future. Similarly, HDBaseT can currently playback video at up to
10.2Gb/sec, but it's theoretically scalable up to 20Gb/sec."_

Anyone else see a two-order-of-magnitude problem with that statement? Uh .. if
it can only transfer 100Mbps, where does the 10.2Gbps video come from? And why
does a predicted 10x increase in the base transport speed only translate to a
2x increase in the high level delivery speed?

~~~
zokier
I believe that it means that HDBaseT will be able to carry 100Mbps Ethernet in
a side channel in addition to the bulk video data

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scrod
This article almost seems to suggest that it's some kind of CAT5 balun, which
is a technique that's been around for many years, carrying VGA, DVI, USB, and
all manner of protocols.

And running HDMI over CAT5 is not exactly brand new, either:

[http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2007/12/honeywell...](http://www.hometheaterblog.com/hometheater/2007/12/honeywell-
introduces-hdmi-over-cat5-solution/)

