
Vanmoof S3 E-bike Review - aikinai
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21227976/vanmoof-s3-electric-bike-review-price-specs
======
exhilaration
My favorite part of the review is that you can get theft insurance from
Vanmoof which will pay for these guys to track down your stolen bike:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPJk8kTXA8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuPJk8kTXA8)

 _The optional Peace of Mind theft recovery service costs $290 / €290 for
three years. If VanMoof’s Bike Hunters can’t locate your bike within two
weeks, they’ll replace it with a bike of similar or better age and condition
(first replacement is free, 2nd and 3rd cost $98 / €98)._

~~~
londons_explore
> VanMoof’s Bike Hunters can’t locate your bike within two weeks

In England, they'd locate the bike in someone's backyard, the police would say
"eh, we can't be bothered to get a warrant to search this house just for a
bicycle", and that would be the end of it.

------
vr46
I have had an X2 since last summer. Some points:

The hub motor is excellent. It gives you all-wheel drive which is a bit odd in
a bicycle and can catch you out in very slippery conditions (mud on paved
towpath by side of river, this is slippery for every bike and every foot, but
the front-wheel drive can cause an extra slide).

The battery lasts well. I don’t always need it hiked to full power (setting 4)
and am happy to ride it at anything from 1-3. There is a boost button that
provides extra oomph for climbing hills or getting away quickly.

It’s not crazy heavy.

It’s a properly vertically-integrated e-bike where everything is designed
together and works together. If you want a bicycle with a motor and battery
bolted-on, there’s plenty of alternatives. The service has been excellent from
VanMoof and the only flaw is that the rear mudguard somehow doesn’t work and
my entire back is covered in mud on a wet ride.

I paid full-price and it is an outstanding bicycle. I imagine the S3/X3 will
be even better. I resisted the chance to buy one of those early.

~~~
londons_explore
Lack of regen braking is a bit of a downer...

As is no ability to 'mod' it for higher speeds (the engine completely cuts out
at ~22mph).

Its weight and limited power and speed means that in a drag race with a
similar strength rider against a non-electric bike, it will lose off the line
and remain slower for a half mile or so until the riders get tired.

It is the tortoise in the race of the hare and tortoise.

~~~
ppf
> Lack of regen braking is a bit of a downer...

The mass of a bicycle and rider is relatively low, so there just isn't much
energy to recover. It's not worth the more expensive motor and controller
required to do it.

[https://www.pandaebikes.com/regen-braking-ebikes-
worth/](https://www.pandaebikes.com/regen-braking-ebikes-worth/)

~~~
londons_explore
All ebikes on the market today already have the hardware for regen. You simply
need to reflash the motor controller firmware to one which shifts the phase of
the current by 180 degrees in the motor windings, and suddenly you're regen-
ing. It can be as simple as a simple minus sign in the firmware source code,
if only you had access to it!.

Some ebikes have firmware mods to do it - others not so much.

The main added difficulty is you can't recharge batteries too fast - and
typical braking would produce too much power, and damage the batteries. If you
didn't want to destroy your batteries, your regen would have to be pretty tame
- more of a "gentle resistance" than "braking".

------
xky
I live in Berlin where many people live in low-rise apartments with no
elevators and keep their bikes downstairs. I believe this is quite common for
many cities in Europe. What I don't understand is how people are charging
their bikes. Are they really lugging this thing up multiple flights of stairs
and charging it in their apartments every few days? I've heard it's pretty
heavy. Or, does it not need to be charged very often?

~~~
billiob
They held a Q&A sessions and basically their answer to that question is two-
fold if I remember it correctly:

\- removable batteries can be stolen,

\- can have issues due to bad weather.

They consider their design safer on those two points. It's imho a mistake.

~~~
basch
Non-removable batteries are damaged by cold weather. Bringing it inside keeps
it/you safer from theft, cold, and throwing out your back carrying your bike.

~~~
frafra
I knew that charging under water freezing temperatures could damage the
battery, not storage or usage. Could you please share some details? I am
evaluating to buy an electric bike, but during winter temperature can get to
-20 °C/~0 °F, so it would be helpful to learn more about that.

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angry_octet
How exactly am I supposed to charge this? Take my bike in the lift up to the
office/apartment? Maybe its because I'm not in California, but I've never seen
a bike cage with charging stations -- and I'm sure it needs an expensive power
brick. Without the ability to bring the battery with you for charging, this is
an expensive toy for rich people in suburbia.

~~~
veidr
I have the VanMoof X2 ebike, which has the same non-removable battery. Yes,
taking your bike up in the lift is what VanMoof expects you to do.

I live on the top floor of an apartment building, and it is annoying to bring
the bike up every time it needs to charge, so I bought this large power bank:
[https://www.amazon.com/SUAOKI-Generators-Portable-
Generator-...](https://www.amazon.com/SUAOKI-Generators-Portable-Generator-
Emergency/dp/B07BDCD9BQ)

I just bring that thing down to the bike parking area when I take out the
trash, and charge the bike from that. It holds enough power to fill the bike.

It does add a few hundred to the cost, making it even more expensive. OTOH
though I live in the city and use the ebike instead of a car, so I could
probably buy a new ebike every year and still save money.

~~~
angry_octet
I like the battery pack more than the bike... I'd get a bigger one if I could,
since running my laptop doing CUDA stuff sucks 240W.

------
chvid
Who produces the Vanmoof bikes?

When I looked into getting an e-bike I was amazed on how many brands just
where reselling products (in their own name) made by a few Chinese factories
that also sold the same bicycle on Alibaba.

I ended up getting a Xiaomi C20 which so far has served me well.

------
fstephany
I might be in the market for an e-bike.

The Cowboy looks a bit better to me with its central motor and removable
battery but the Vanmoof looks more comfy. The review doesn't mention anything
about that.

Is there any other significant difference between the two bikes? If you bought
one of those, which criteria were decisive in your decision?

~~~
fnord77
I've ridden a lot of electric bikes. To me, the hub motor is superior because
it provides snappier acceleration which (to me) makes the bike more fun. The
extra "kick" helps overcome the extra mass of the ebike and makes it feel like
a normal bike.

try both kinds. I found the central-motor style pretty dull and sluggish.

------
burlesona
I’ve ridden a Van Moof extensively and it’s a very nice bike. Unfortunately,
in San Francisco I have yet to find an elegant “normal looking” e-bike that
can boost you up the hills without a significant struggle. Yes they help
compared to foot power alone, but you still need to be pretty fit.

I understand the fitness requirement is also a feature, depending on your
perspective. But for a lot of folks who are older or have health limitations,
a nice-looking, easy to ride e-bike that could truly “flatten” San Francisco
would be game changing. We’re inching closer to that, and I’m excited to see
it when it gets here.

~~~
basch
What do you think of Bulls?

The Lacuba Evo Lite looks pretty normal and has a ton of power.

[https://www.bullsbikesusa.com/lacuba-evo-lite-
diamond.html](https://www.bullsbikesusa.com/lacuba-evo-lite-diamond.html)

[https://electricbikereview.com/bulls/lacuba-evo-
lite/](https://electricbikereview.com/bulls/lacuba-evo-lite/)

------
HomebrewCC
Pros: The design and price. This bike would significantly improve my commute
and lower my transportation costs.

Cons: Carrying a 19kg (22lbs) e-bike upstairs to my 1st floor (2nd floor)
apartment a few times a week to charge it.

~~~
tln
19kg = 42lbs

Thats quite light for an e-bike.

There are lots of options with removable batteries, too, but if you can
park/lock your bike downstairs maybe you can also just run an extension cord?

------
fnord77
I was never that impressed with the older vanmoof models. The riding position
is awful.

I was impressed (and bought) this Faraday. The faraday is just absolutely the
perfect city bike.

[https://electricbikereview.com/faraday/porteur/](https://electricbikereview.com/faraday/porteur/)

For something more speedy, I was really impressed with the older Stromer (not
the latest one)

[https://electricbikereview.com/stromer/st1-x/](https://electricbikereview.com/stromer/st1-x/)

~~~
skyfaller
Yeah, I bought a Faraday Porteur too, it's hands-down the smoothest ride on an
e-bike I've ever experienced. The electric motor on the front wheel while you
pedal the back wheel as normal is a unique configuration that means the
different drive methods don't interfere with each other at all. On the lower
setting the electric assist feels like a gentle breeze is blowing your
direction. It was also my first experience with a carbon belt drive, which was
a revelation.

It's really a shame that Faraday got bought out and stopped making bicycles,
yet doesn't make it clear on their website that they've gone out of business,
which is crucial information for anyone thinking about buying one. Some of
their custom parts, like the internal battery pack, will be difficult to
replace once they run out of inventory.

Today I use a Tern GSD instead (in part because of the cargo capacity, in part
b/c of standard Bosch parts), and I'm trying to sell my Faraday, although the
pandemic has interfered with that somewhat. If anyone is in the Philadelphia
area and wants a Faraday Porteur, please take it off my hands :)

~~~
Accacin
Not unique, Gocycle GX has this configuration too.

~~~
skyfaller
To be fair, the VanMoof S3 in this article also has a front hub motor, so
clearly it is not literally unique. That said, I looked for a long time about
a year ago, and had difficulty finding any other examples of front hub motors.

------
UncleOxidant
That custom gear box with those plastic gears gives me pause. I'm planning to
buy an ebike sometime, but I think I'd go with something like a RADCity that
uses off-the-shelf components. The RadPower bikes definitely don't look as
cool, but the batteries are removable, the components are readily available
and the price is even lower.

------
pizza234
I'm baffled by the hub motor - are there any cases of hub motors superior to
mid-drives?

~~~
mperham
They can used throttle only and don’t add strain on the chain.

~~~
pizza234
I think throttle-only would make them illegal in most EU countries (or, more
specifically, they wouldn't be in the same category as bikes anymore); but
also, is there really anything implicit in a mid-drive engine that prevents
throttle-only?

Interesting point about the chain. What causes more strain, specifically?
Essentially, if a certain power is required to go at a certain speed, what
makes it different if it's muscle only, or mixed muscle/engine?

~~~
w33ble
It’s not that a mid-drive motor adds more wear, as you note it should be about
equal to a bike with no motor. But the hub motor reduces wear, as you are
applying less force to the drive train to achieve the same moving power, since
the motor applies force at the wheel directly.

------
Luc
I'm a bit wary of VanMoof. I don't like the frame geometry to start with, but
they also offer only one frame size which is supposed to fit a wide range of
bodies.

This makes me think this bike is marketed at people who perhaps have little
previous experience with bicycles.

~~~
Someone
FTA: _”The S3 and X3 models are essentially the same under the “hood,”
differing only by frame types and wheel sizes. The S3 is designed for riders
ranging in size from 170 to 210 cm (5 feet, 7 inches to 6 feet, 11 inches),
while the compact X3 fits riders from 155 to 200 cm (5 feet, 1 inch to 6 feet,
7 inches)“_

IMO, the only weird thing is that the wheels of the smaller model are only
24”.

~~~
Luc
Yes, I read that.

So people with body length differences of 40 or 45cm are to use the same
bicycle.

I find that hilarious. There's like 20 frame sizes in that range. Most good
manufacturers offer at least a dozen.

~~~
miranda_rights
That's unfortunately not the case for ebikes. I've been looking at ebikes for
a while and several highly rated manufacturers only offer 1 size of ebike and
are too big for me (e.g. cowboy, propella).

~~~
Luc
If they only have one size, I wouldn't rate them highly...

Can't be good for your knees and your back.

------
ebg13
The cutaway view of the shifter shows what look like plastic gears. Is that
typical?

~~~
derekp7
I've got a conversion setup that uses a geared hub motor, apparently the gears
are some type of nylon. They're fairly durable, as there isn't a lot of torque
on the gear teeth themselves as this is a reduction gear (goes from a higher
speed low torque motor to a lower speed at the hub).

I have noticed with mine that there is a bit of a stressful sound from the
gears if I apply the throttle from a dead stop, esp. if up an incline. So I
typically will start peddling first a couple times then ease on the throttle.
Not sure how this would work on a different setup that uses a peddle sensor
though.

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FpUser
I tried to find battery specs and all I was able to get was "Battery 504W
capacity Integrated LG cell Removable for servicing". Is that a typo and it is
actually 504 watt hours or it is battery's rated power?

~~~
timerol
The article now claims a "504Wh-capacity battery," which agrees with VanMoof's
page for the S3.

------
Niccizero
As long e-bikes are still limted by silly 250w/500w motors they're never going
to take out in the mass market.

~~~
Accacin
eBikes outsell in the Netherlands.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
They are booming across most of Europe. Every bike shop I see has at least a
couple of models in the lineup, this is a big change from a couple of years
ago.

------
solarkraft
All the great things said about it are probably true. It probably is an
amazing package.

... But the thing I get the most excited about is how amazing the frame with
the integrated lights looks.

