
Ask HN: Are browser notifications user-hostile? - tzakrajs
Allow me to apologize for my leading questions in advance, but I am looking for arguments for and against the title topic.<p>What percentage of the time do you accept notification requests? How often was it on purpose? How often do you deny them? Does this feature feel like it is abused?
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ramphastidae
I deny them 100% of the time (with one forthcoming exception). It's always
spammy or click-bait sites that ask permission for push notifications, for no
other reason than to push their content even more.

The only time I enabled them was when using the browser-based versions of
Hipchat (and then Slack), as receiving notifications about incoming messages
was actually useful to me.

~~~
balladeer
Citi bank (India) asks all the time, so does almost every Google web app. Some
other offenders are ones like movie/event booking site like BookMyShow. But
BMS are such shady spammers that I had to create specific filters to receive
only booking confirmation in my mailbox. I had created <my email
id>+bms@gmail.com and the next day my spam label count was in triple digit.
ICICI Bank does, HSBC India does and I would like to add that these two are
excellent spammers too. I suspect HSVC India's "unsubscribe" link results in
an response "LOL" internally, or it just points to a static content that just
shows "Successfully unsubscribed".

Anyway, the only time I need notification is when I am chatting with
tech/customer support and I move to other tabs/windows in between.

I guess pretty much all the sites are inching towards being spammy and click-
bait now, at least the ones of major companies.

------
gpvos
The main problem is that the request to allow notifications pops up the first
time you visit a site, at a time when you have no idea yet how much you like
and trust the site. This leads me to always permanently deny them (because the
second and third time I visit the site, I am still unlikely to know them well
enough, so the popups would just be annoying). Then, after that, the
notifications have been permanently denied, and you don't get a chance to re-
enable them anymore.

So sites should never ask to enable notifications by default, but instead have
an easy-to-find-but-not-too-obnoxious button on the homepage to later enable
them. (I don't even know if this is technically possible at the moment.) I
would still do this for <1% of sites, but at least the functionality would be
useful and usable. A Javascript pop-up div in a corner might be acceptable
when you visit the site for the 5th time or so.

------
kelnos
I allow for chat webapps and GCalendar, and deny for everything else, even
email. I don't trust any other site not to abuse them, and even if I did,
there isn't anything else that would warrant an immediate interruption.

Now, if you're looking for arguments whether or not you should implement them
for a user-facing webapp based on a sampling of HN readers' behavior, my guess
is we're not really all that representative. If you think any of your users
might find them useful, go ahead and implement them.

One caveat, though: most (all?) random websites that want to give me
notifications do so by just brazenly requesting permission from the browser. I
would prefer if there was a link/button on the website itself that I could use
to opt-in (which would trigger the permissions dialog). It just feels sketchy
when random websites request notification access (or location access, for that
matter), without first presenting me a case for why they want it.

~~~
taneq
For me it's a natural extension of my antiphishing/antiscam/antiadvertising
responses. If a web site pops up a thing demanding access to a resource
(credentials/credulity/attention) the response is automatically no.

------
pubb
Notifications can be useful for web apps. A good rule of thumb is to only ask
for permission when the user interacts with your app. For example, I ask for
permission when the user clicks a button with the text "Enable Push
Notifications" on the user settings screen. Then I let the user choose what
kind of notifications they'd like to receive - typically CRUD actions for
entities that the user cares about.

~~~
JoshTriplett
> A good rule of thumb is to only ask for permission when the user interacts
> with your app. For example, I ask for permission when the user clicks a
> button with the text "Enable Push Notifications" on the user settings
> screen.

This is absolutely the right way to do it. A little unobtrusive in-page
suggestion to enable notifications is not a problem; I've enabled them for
Slack via such a notification, for instance. But I'm _never_ going to grant a
site notification permission if it pops up the browser permission dialog
without interaction.

------
TeMPOraL
Another point for 100% deny. Not just because of annoyance, but also in order
not to have stuff running in the background when my browser is not open.

Hell, I'm actually tuning down in-app notifications as well, especially on
chats. I've learned that notifications are distracting, and 99% of time not
worth the cost of interruption. I had to get over my FOMO for that, but it's
been worth it.

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conductr
I accept them 0% of the time. Always on purpose. 100%. Yes I’ve never once
seen a “allow notifications because _some actual benefit_ ”. It’s always just
forced pop up with no elaboration of why I might actually care to give this
permission. It’s usually also pops up the first time I visit a site. Why on
earth do I want to sign up for the “new blog post” notifications before I even
know if I like this blog. It actually immediately discredits your site in my
opinion.

I can imagine a responsible implementation Like others are explaining here but
have never seen it in the wild myself.

------
aorth
I have never accepted a notifications request ever. Now, because of this
thread, I've learned how to disable the feature entirely in Firefox (set
dom.webnotifications.enabled to false).

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mikestew
Whatever the setting is for “don’t you EVER pop a browser-originated
notification. Don’t even ASK.” in macOS, I have that turned on.

~~~
jsjohnst
I so wish I knew what that setting was. Guess I could’ve googled it in the
time I’ve written this reply.

~~~
mikestew
_sigh_ You're going to exploit my alpha geek to make me go look and prove I
know how to do it, aren't you? :-)

System Preferences/Notifications/Safari. There's a None option. Then
Safari/Preferences/Notifications/Uncheck "Allow websites to ask for
permission..." IIRC, I've not seen any mention of notifications in Safari
since.

~~~
jsjohnst
Just toggled off the “allow websites to ask for permission...” setting in
Safari/Preferences/Websites/Notifications. Thanks! Lazy web for the win!

------
gpm
I've purposely enabled them for my works slack, and they have been extremely
convenient there.

I have intentionally denied them on every other website that asked, not many
have asked.

I'm glad they exist. Currently they don't seem to be widely abused. If they
become widely abused a "default to silently deny" policy would handle any
user-hostility.

~~~
gpvos
It's interesting: even though indeed there are not so many sites that ask for
them, I still find it an intrusion every time. I suppose it's a kind of
conditioning because of all the spamming.

------
Itaxpica
Google Calendar is the only one I’ve ever allowed, or would allow.

It’s beyond user-hostile, it’s a pretty strong signal of a low-quality site at
this point.

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jedanbik
I have never accepted one. If I wanted to read something regularly, I’d
bookmark it and revisit it. Or subscribe to the RSS feed if I wanted to keep
up to date.

To me, it’s just as annoying as apps with notifications, or websites with pop
ups about newsletters. All of these things are generally just things trying to
add more noise into my life.

I value my quiet. Are you offering more value than my quiet?

------
mindcrime
Pretty much. I only accept them for about 4 sites in total. Anything else, I
can't imagine any reason I would accept notifications from them. As far as I'm
concerned, "if you want me to see your content in a timely fashion, publish an
RSS feed and if I like your site I'll subscribe". This intrusive browser
notification stuff is lame.

------
jsjohnst
I’ve never accepted a notification request for any site. The only sites it
might be useful for to me, I already use a SSB (aka Mailplane) that’s built
for that site, so no need.

In the same vein, I absolutely hate the “requests your current location”
notifications too. There’s basically only one or two sites I’ve allowed it.

------
throwaway2016a
I'm surprised at all the absolutes here. I agree with people on blogs and news
sites and things like that. Notifications are an awful thing. I immediately
think less of ablog if it tries to get me to enable them.

However, for web apps like calendars and project management and chat they are
indispensable. I'm not going to go and check (polling style) my project
management software 80 times a day. Which means that if one of my team needs
my eye on something the notification makes sue it gets looked at much sooner.

My notification popup from Google Calendar has saved my ass many times because
it alerted me to an appointment I forgot I had.

My personal UI pattern that I like is to put a notification option in the
settings area and only turn it on (show the prompt to turn it on) when they
specifically ask.

------
natch
I allow them for a very small and selective number of sites that I mostly
trust. For me this is a pretty high bar. I have three sites whitelisted right
now.

Conditions to be whitelisted:

1) I have been using your site for years.

2) Your site has timely important information in my specific field of
interest.

3) Your site doesn't engage in monetization practices that lead to a poor user
experience (ads that pop over or otherwise interrupt the articles, self-
playing audio, self-resizing ads, begging for account creation, etc.)

4) Of all the existing sites on this topic, yours needs to be the best one
(proven with many years track record).

Has your site been around for many years?

99.99% of the time I would deny them and consider even the request to be a
rude annoyance. If your site is not in the top 1% of long-established quality
sites, you shouldn't even request the permission imho.

------
robin_reala
100% of the time, with a single exception yesterday for an Apple support chat
window I had open among a bunch of other ones on a laptop without an external
screen. There are a few exceptions where thry’re worthwhile but it needs to be
part of a focused experience.

------
noncoml
They are useful IMHO, but I only allow 1 or 2.

Maybe one for emails and one for my chess games. All the rest denied.

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olfactory
I disable all notifications in all programs, browsers and also those generated
by the OS.

The whole idea of notifications is that I want to be interrupted from whatever
I'm doing to learn the information in a timely manner. This is pretty much
never true.

~~~
imhoguy
Same here. Especially with screen-sharing or pair work. Receiving some NSFW
language IM notifications from chaty coworker is absolutely embarrasing. Just
simple dot indicator on a tray icon is enough to remind me to check later.

------
bostik
0%, no exceptions.

Any website that asks for them gets immediately flagged as an entitled piece
of s--t.

------
rypskar
I deny them all, I also turn off most notifications from programs on my PC and
on my phone. My email clients, direct messages on HipChat and some facebook
notifications on my phone (and phone calls and SMS) are the only notifications
I want. I like to be in charge of when to consume information, instead of
being force feed information.

So except HipChat at work I get less than 10 notifications a day in total on
all platforms. Most can be looked at when I notice them, and closed right
away. Still keep them on for the 1 in 10 that I want to read.

------
synicalx
I allow a couple, namely Google Calendar and Remember the Milk (which I use
for work, sort of). I don't mind being asked if I'd like to enable them - if I
don't want something to notify me I just hit "no". I get that some people
would find that annoying though, especially if you're more of a prolific
reader than I.

------
wwweston
I accept them for a few messaging apps, where they're truly useful enough that
it balances out the inconvenience of saying no to the many sites that have no
business asking.

I think browsers would do well to let users whitelist some sites and pretend
to all others that the capability isn't available.

------
coreyp_1
I always deny them. I have only ever seen clickbait sites use them, and I do
not trust them to not abuse the system.

------
Meph504
I've never actually seen one, I deny all of them, because I've never thought
to myself, that they could possibly be useful.

To me, They are an annoyance. I become suspicious of any site wanting me to
accept them.

I would disable this feature globally if I could (or cared enough to figure
out how.)

------
CSDude
People invented pop-up blockers for a reason, browser notifications are only
used by intrusive spammy web-sites, similar to old pop-ups that wants to sell
you Viagra or claiming you are the 1 millionth user. I only allow work related
ones, like Gitlab or Slack.

------
jacquesm
Never accepted on, blocked this in browser settings, I've only seen it abused.
It's roughly at the same level of irritation as follow up spam, asking the
browser to set the page visited as your home page and spam asking for read
confirmation.

------
Powerofmene
Deny them all because they tend to be obtrusive and when I did allow a select
few, they were frequently of little value or importance. Since denying them
all I get more done and am not subjected to frequent interruptions.

------
mmagin
The only ones I allow are from my irc client (Glowing Bear) and Slack. I
really don't like the current UI, I wish it was less intrusive, like the
"allow popups" UI in browsers.

------
teekert
I like it that Nextcloud and protonmail have them. Other than that I find them
extremely annoying. Its like a twitter friend request just to send you adds, I
have never accepted any of them.

------
starik36
There is only one that I've ever accepted. It's from Remote Messages jailbreak
app that let's send and receive SMSs & iMessages from your PC on the iPhone.

------
RikNieu
I allow them for Slack and Gmail. That's it.

If you have a news/entertainment/social media site that ask for notifications,
I immediately see your site as spammy.

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0x4f3759df
They are good for game sites like lichess

Wait until these websites start implementing service workers which don't
require the webpage in question to be open

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kccqzy
Always deny except for Slack.

I don’t even enable notifications for most apps on my desktop or on my phone.
There are enough distractions in modern life already.

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proginthebox
I deny them 100% time. Almost all websites seem to ask them nowadays. However,
very few websites seem to ask once I have denied it permanently.

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m_eiman
I have disabled the feature completely in Firefox.

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croisillon
Another data point for 100% denial here, my gf authorized one for the local
newspaper (she's also an avid newsletter subscriber)

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grayrest
I accept them if I knew exactly what it was used for (chat, calendar,
conference) but the random ones around the net are 100% deny.

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juancn
Yes! Don't even ask unless you're WhatsApp web. Actually the browser should
auto-deny all requests.

------
vorotato
I think it's a great feature but I should be the one asking for notifications
not them.

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na85
I deny notification requests 100% of the time.

