
Ask HN: How to negotiate a job offer without any counter offers? - jobhelpplease
I recently received a job offer from one of the giants in SV for a software engineering role in the bay area (I am not from the US originally). The base salary they gave me is lower than the average of what you see in Glassdoor and the like for a similar position with my experience (about $10k of a difference).<p>When trying to talk with the recruiter about this I was pretty much told that unless I have another offer in hand (he literally asked to see a contract, is that a common thing to ask?), there&#x27;s nothing he can do about it.<p>So I&#x27;m basically left with trying to get another offer from a company I don&#x27;t plan on joining, or accept this offer which I&#x27;m not happy with, but from a company I do want to join. Is there a third option that might help me here?
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CocaKoala
I've never heard of somebody asking to see a contract with another company;
that sounds super weird, and I would definitely be uncomfortable with that
request.

There's very little downside to trying to negotiate your job offer, even
without a counter offer on the table. The outcomes are pretty easy to
enumerate:

1\. You ask for more money. They negotiate; you end up with a higher salary.
It might not be what you initially asked for, but that's how negotiation
works, and it should be higher than what they offered. This is a success.

2\. You ask for more money. They say, "Oh geeze, we're really sorry, but
there's straight up no room for negotiation here; you're either going to have
to accept the offer as it stands, or walk away". This isn't a success, but
it's not really a failure either because you haven't lost anything; you're in
the same place you were before, making the same decision, but now you've got a
little more information.

3\. You ask for more money. The company is offended that you have the temerity
to negotiate, and they take their offer off the table. This looks bad, but
it's a success as well. If a company gets salty at you for trying to negotiate
a better salary and rescinds your offer, that's a pretty clear sign that you
wouldn't have been happy working there and you've dodged a pretty major
bullet. In my mind, that's good news.

For advice specific to negotiating, even without a counter offer, I'll point
you towards Patrick Mackenzie's blog post on the topic; it's got some very
good advice and is worth reading: [http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-
negotiation/](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/)

------
nherment
well, the fact that you don't have another offer does not change the
negotiation much. They want to hire you so you should use that as a leverage.
It's relatively straightforward.

solution 1) Tell them you won't join unless they revise the salary. Be ready
for them to refuse.

solution 2) If you are willing to join with this salary, tell them you expect
a higher salary and talk with them. Ask them why they won't match the local
average. There is no negotiation if you don't talk. Maybe you'll learn the
reason they can't match. Otherwise they'll realize that you are really serious
about the bump but that you can negotiate. If they still refuse the raise, do
not just accept the job. They will feel they owe you something because you
were refused what you asked. Accept the job and immediately ask for something
else. They will probably give it to you (should it be a specific laptop
configuration, Giants tickets, arranged work schedule, whatever..)

These solutions are the same with an offer in hand and bear the same risk too:
they can refuse.

Also, at that point in the negotiations, you should bypass the recruiter if
he/she is a contractor. Ask to talk to the hiring director directly.

If you're in Silicon Valley, it won't be long before you find a great company
anyway.

~~~
jobhelpplease
I actually believe the company in question is a great one, the one I set out
in the first place to end up in. 1) is probably a risk I'm not willing to
take. I'll try to use your advice from 2), thanks.

------
byoung2
Glassdoor doesn't show how many years of experience, years at the company, or
education are tied to each salary. Maybe those people listed on Glassdoor
started at your salary or even lower. That is very likely because lots of
times people post on Glassdoor after leaving the company, and typically they
have gotten a raise since joining. It is also possible that people are
inflating the salary they post.

~~~
jobhelpplease
I agree that Glassdoor can be misleading and it's not the best source out
there. I did ask around and tried to find out if the numbers there are close
to reality, and for the most part the answer was yes.

------
bavcyc
Recruiters can ask for anything they want, but you don't have to give it to
them.

Some places will match salary but otherwise bring you in at a lower level.

You could explain that the market research that you have done shows the offer
is about $10k lower than the typical salary.

Also reinforce the skills that you bring to the job.

------
TheSmoke
i am not able to give you an advice on how to negotiate but i'd like to change
the way you think about this problem.

ask yourself what is going to make you happy? earning $10K more? working in
the valley? is the money worth to leave your country and work in the us? did
they make any promises to increase your salary? will you be able to live
comfortably with their offer?

~~~
jobhelpplease
you raise some very good points, which I've spent a considerable amount of
time thinking about. I think for the most the answer I have is a positive one,
except that I feel that the offer I got could have been higher. It's certainly
not going to prevent me from doing this, because I see this as more of an
experience, rather than an opportunity to make more money.

