
Dealing with burn-out - vijaydev
http://jacquesmattheij.com/dealing+with+burn+out
======
mrcharles
I've dealt with burnout twice in my life so far, and I'm going to make sure it
never happens again. Both were post-crunch meltdowns. The first, when I was
just getting in to the industry, and didn't know better. The second, not so
long ago, when I should have known better.

The first thing I've learned is that I can't accurately judge my limits. Even
if I feel okay and on top of the world... things start to slide. Suddenly I'm
writing code so bad, I'm committing code that doesn't even work, but thinking
it does, because my brain is in outright rebellion.

Both times, I couldn't code for six months. The first time, I just tried to
hide it. I quit my job, and took another. I wrote almost no code in those six
months and was paranoid I'd be found out and fired. I wasn't, thankfully.

The second time, I took a few months off work, and requested a change of job
for a period of time, so that I didn't have to do any coding. The second time
was really bad, I started having panic attacks just looking at code on a
screen. I'd start sweating, heart racing. It was horrible.

What I ended up doing for most of those six months at home, was building
little plastic robot models. No computer use. Just quiet, methodical,
brainless work.

Eventually I recovered, and started coding again. I'm better than ever now,
which is good. But I learned an important lesson, which is that working too
much is always bad. I know, it seems like a lame ending to this story, but
it's true and ultimately important.

~~~
singular
Very well put. Very sorry to hear about your experiences - I think this
highlights quite clearly what a serious thing burnout can be.

Hopefully you won't mind if I mention my experience - though I didn't do a
computer science degree (something I very much regret), my engineering degree
was a very difficult time for me - a family situation carried on throughout
the degree, a very, very serious situation (and also very personal, so not
going to go into detail), as well as very many other bad things happening to
me on what was already a ridiculously difficult workload (my Alma mater has a
great reputation based on working people into the ground).

There are so many stories I could tell about that time... will stick with just
one, however - in my final year my dissertation supervisor treated me like a
research assistant - going off and looking at stuff for him which he'd review
then throw away, rinse + repeat all year until 2 weeks before the dissertation
deadline when he told me I didn't have a project (if I didn't hand anything in
that would have been my degree over with, I would have had to repeat the
entire final year elsewhere, and would find it hard to actually get a job, so
pretty damn major).

After 2 weeks of 18-hour days I managed to write a 100-page dissertation and
code (in fortran!!) the entire model myself. I eventually got an A grade for
the dissertation despite everything, but this supervisor told me afterwards I
couldn't pursue a PhD with him because I was a bad student (yeah, kinda dodged
a bullet there, not to mention that it would have been a distraction from what
I've come to realise was always my calling - programming).

In fact my degree choice was largely influenced by 'spiritual' beliefs held by
my family, so I had the endless conflict of not actually liking my subject (I
wanted to do maths or computer science) while trying to actually survive it.

I can't tell you how absolutely destructive that was, it's taken 6 years to
even be able to cope with studying on my own, let alone doing the kind of work
I need to go in the direction I want to with programming.

Anyway, now things are way more positive, focusing on studying the things I
need to learn while avoiding burnout (see my other post). A lot of it is
getting over the impact it has on self-esteem. Trust me, burning out like that
is like a forest fire for the ego.

~~~
mrcharles
It's worth noting that just because you are enjoying yourself doesn't make you
immune to burnout. My second bout of burnout was from a workload I chose to
challenge myself with. I was a designer, programmer, and a team lead, and
ultimately, was trying to cram three jobs in to a week. I loved it, and
thought I had it all under control, until the day it all fell apart.

------
yawn
I'm experiencing this right now. My productivity at work is dropping to
nothing. Looking at the code base is getting harder and harder. Unfortunately,
I am under a mountain of debt and am responsible for 3 other humans, so trying
something new is not an option. Note to young programmers: please manage your
finances wisely and not fall victim to the "they have X, so why can't I"
syndrome. There aren't too many fields where you can make the kind of money we
do, so don't trap yourself financially--it closes too many doors.

~~~
roqetman
I've been there. Just know that this too will end. Take some quiet time out
and use your analytical brain to think outside the box. I did that and found a
way to manage my debt so that I didn't feel crushed by it (closed all credit
cards, and took a loan on my 401k - paid it all off in 3 years). Started
working remotely part-time and took the occasional day off. Little things
help.

------
yardie
Go to popular bar or night-club and you might be surprised how many burn-outs
work there. I know because I was one of them. In addition to your typical
starving artists, college student, and part-time model that work in the bar. I
worked alongside the worldtraveller who wanted to make some coin before moving
onto the next city, burnt-out programmer from Wallstreet. Programmer from SF
that was working while his girlfriend was in school, thought it was a good
excuse to get out of SF. Post-doc comp. sci who just doesn't want to be around
computers for now.

The manager made it point to only higher beautiful people, according to him.
But he also enjoyed the company of smart people (less likely to be on drugs)
so went out of his way to hire college students and backpackers.

After a few weeks of carrying cases and kegs up and down from the cellar, and
partying all night, I was in the best shape of my life.

------
swombat
Alan Watts has a great metaphor for keeping your balance. He says it's like
riding a bike. When you start falling on one side, your natural instinct is to
turn in the other direction. Of course, if you do that, you fall very fast.
The key to staying upright on a bike is to turn in the direction that you're
falling into.

The metaphor translates very well to keeping your balance as a human being -
go into the direction that you're falling into. In other words, if you find
that your body and mind and subconscious is telling you, "I don't want to do X
anymore!" don't try to force yourself to do it anymore. And if you find that
the message is "I really want to do X" follow it.

Of course, to keep your balance on a bike, you need to pay attention to what
your senses are telling you. And to keep your balance in life, you need to pay
attention to what your subconscious is telling you.

~~~
jarek
Damn, my subconscious is telling me "I really want to play TTD all day."

~~~
jerf
There's a balance to be sure, and there's some learning about yourself that is
necessary. For instance, there's a critical difference between the feelings
"I'm burning out and do not want to do this task" and "This task is boring".

It's possible you're feeling lazy; it's also possible that you're closer to
burnout than you realize and that is your brain/body telling you that you need
a break. Only you can decide which is which. There are consequences to being
wrong either way, but, well, _c'est la vie, non_?

I've had some success maintaining some longish work hours, even under the
American-style "vacations are for people who live in other countries and don't
have babies" regime, for a very long time with this basic approach because
only rarely will I force it, and when I have to for some reason I always
budget some days that I will simply take off from computing entirely.

------
singular
I agree that it's vitally important to keep burnout in mind when you're the
type of person prone to it (I suspect a great many HNers are), however I
wonder whether being over-cautious is potentially as, if not more, damaging in
_some_ circumstances.

Let's say, theoretically ( _cough_ ;-) you're in a job you don't like which is
absolutely making you miserable but is actually quite easy in many respects,
what if the only way to actually get a job you might like is to work really
hard outside of work-work?

The problem is that if you're the kind of person who cares about this stuff,
it's worth anything to avoid a life stuck writing CRUD surrounded by people
who don't care in a place where even the concept of code review or non-
sourcesafe source control is laughed off by seniors ( _cough_ again ;-)

It's a fine line to walk in this kind of situation. To me, the key is to have
plenty of scheduled breaks, accept + deal with f-ups (i.e. not doing the
amount of work you wanted, it happens), have clear goals with smaller goals
along the road, etc., and most important of all - do stuff you absolutely
love. Nothing is guaranteed to protect you from burnout, however.

A lot of the problem with transitioning from somewhere sucky to somewhere
decent is that, in order to actually be up scratch for a job like that, you
have to put in a _lot_ of hours in your own time, especially if you don't have
a computer science degree and have gaps to fill in.

IMHO, sometimes burnout is just a risk you have to run, though you can
certainly work to minimise it.

~~~
mrcharles
_Let's say, theoretically (cough ;-) you're in a job you don't like which is
absolutely making you miserable but is actually quite easy in many respects,
what if the only way to actually get a job you might like is to work really
hard outside of work-work?_

I am specifically in this situation right now, and below you can find my story
about previous burn-out.

Frankly, I've set myself a schedule for extra work that is stiff but not
brutal. I am for an hour and a half of work on my personal stuff per day. It
doesn't seem like much, and I could probably do more, but I'm playing it safe.

I don't think I'm being over-cautious. I'm making good progress, I'm not
sacrificing my personal life, and the benefit is that -- and this is the
important part -- I'm not forcing myself on to a schedule I can't maintain.
Which I think is ultimately the leading cause of burnout.

I keep a google docs spreadsheet of my work, so I know I'm not slacking. But I
can load balance in a way I can't do at my job -- if something isn't
entertaining, I pick a different part of the project to work on.

Ultimately I feel I'm on track to set myself free within two years tops, and I
do so safely.

~~~
singular
I absolutely applaud your reasoned approach - being reasonable about a
schedule while _consciously_ avoiding practices which lead to burnout is the
way to actually get out of the situation.

I think a key part of resolving burnout issues is separating feelings of self
worth from hours worked; strictly enforcing _breaks_ as well as work is vital
- you are doing what you can, while consciously avoiding burnout.

I definitely think logging stuff is a key part of the whole scheme; me being
me, I feel like I've done _nothing_ , but looking back at my logs I can see
I've put in quite a few hours.

Personally I'm aiming for around 3 hours each weekday, more on the weekend,
but have for several weeks failed to meet this for various reasons. I've
avoided beating myself up about it, rather trying to find ways to make the
work more feasible. It's a hard thing to do.

------
grammaton
Um, so, avoid burnout by not doing your job. It's cool that Jacques had that
option and all, but how does that really help the vast majority of developers
who don't? I'm burned out right now, but quitting my job isn't much of an
option either.

~~~
andywood
I don't know your situation, and I'm only speaking from my own experience, but
I've been in a situation where I was absolutely certain that quitting was not
an option (because of mortgage/bills/the usual). Once truly burnt out, I had
no choice but to leave, and it was only then that I saw, in hindsight, that
not only had quitting been an option all along, but that it would have been
_far less damaging_ in every way (financially, mentally, career-wise) to quit
before I got burnt out. And there were _plenty_ of other, better jobs waiting.

~~~
rbarooah
Generally you're probably right, but people _do_ get stuck in jobs for real
because of external constraints. A mortgage is not always one of them because
it usually means you have capital to trade for your mental health.

Divorce, Healthcare needs, Child Support, Immigration Issues, are the kinds of
thing that can leave people genuinely stuck. Not to mention the possibility of
not being able to get a good reference because of being burned out.

Obviously, it's up to each person to avoid these kinds of trap, but they do
exist and they do damage what could otherwise be productive lives.

------
BenSS
Balance. Having any sort of hobby/interest that is physical and away from your
desk is more important than you might think. Personally, I keep a garden and
do home improvement projects, launching into one of these things tends to
break the down cycle. Yours might be entirely different, but it also gives you
a fresh viewpoint too. Think of it as a giant university, sometimes the guy
down the hall in a completely different domain will have insight into what
you're working on. You'll find building physical/meatspace things is not all
that different from virtual.

------
droz
I took up a pottery class this past winter. It was perfect because it
surrounded me with people who knew how to take things slow, sit down and focus
on the task at hand. It provided the necessary mental shift I needed to not
feel overwhelmed by the day-to-day ADHD-like issues of managing a huge project
for the first time. I think that if I hadn't taken the class, I would have
been more susceptible to burnout.

~~~
BrandonM
Thanks to your comment, I just sought out a local pottery class.

------
iqster
Labeling this "burn-out" might be a bit harsh. The guy was quite productive
... although he did things in a new field. This kind of change is sometimes
very important for a person's mind. I recall reading that Jim Clark (of
Netscape) spent an insane amount of time automating his yacht. In Jim's case,
some of the non-trivial problems he solved ended up being commercialized. Same
thing with this dude ... if he wanted to apply his experience to a renewable
energy startup, he can very well make a high-value contribution to society.
One final point ... as I was reading the post, I felt that this isn't all too
different from doing a PhD :)

~~~
ozziegooen
Yea, that didn't sound too bad and he didn't spend much time talking about the
actual burnout itself.

Maybe there are two kinds of burnout; one is "tired of coding" and the other
is "tired of life". The preferable one is quite obvious, although neither is
much desirable.

~~~
DuncanIdaho
Ahhh so only people who are single minded have the luxury to have their
condition called burn out?

Have you been burned out? I have and I'm still recovering. And my condition
ain't that bad either. But discord between what I have come to expect of
myself and what others have become to rely on from me and the sad reality that
mere thought of activities I used to excel in, make me physically sick.

First you get tired, then you stop enjoying your work, then slowly others
change their opinion of you from being the coolest person you become a drag in
their eyes. Then you loose job, then your spouse leaves you. And then the
society calls you a looser.

Some people get lucky and see where it is going while in early stages. Others
try to compensate and blow it.

And there's the third kind who yap about it while not having a slightest clue.

------
sandwidthal
Anyone else notice that the symptoms of overwork are rather similar to the
symptoms of overindulgence/addiction?

------
Emore
The symptoms (<http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out>)
are stated to be, sort of, phases.

Anyone speaking from experience: can a burnout be avoided by identifying early
symptoms? If so, how?

~~~
freshfunk
Lol. Wow. I guess I officially had burnout. Not surprising, really, since I
knew it myself when I finally hit the wall (but not the lead up).

I'm an entrepreneur and I've been working at my startup for a year. I stopped
exercising (partially due to a long term sports injury I was recovering from)
and I was heads down on my project full time. After some cofounders didn't
work out, I resolved to work harder.

Oh yeah did I mention I was having a kid and looking to move? ;P Sure
ingredients for burnout.

I thought I could be Superman. I think adversity would only make me stronger.
It did but it broke me down before it built me up.

It culminated with the move and then the kid. After we moved, I spent about a
month not working, not reading TechCrunch, and removed myself from most
hardcore tech activities. I spent it renovating the house for the kid. It was
still stressful but my mind rested from the startup.

At this time I started exercising again. I was out of shape but my injury
recovered enough to do sports again.

I then had my child. And while it was a new addition in my life that required
a certain amount of time there was a certain (re)birth in my desire to
restart/continue my startup.

Now I'm working harder than ever and motivated. Yes, it's tough and when I
think about all the ways my startup can go down in a ball of flames (or a
whimper) it gets stressful. But the other 90% of the time I'm really excited
and can't wait to work more.

The ultimate lesson, as stated below, was balance. The startup ended up being
a longer haul than I thought. Like Mark Suster says, you can't ignore health
and family as those two things are things you can't get back once they've
left. They also have a way of keeping personal morale up which helps you
continue your arduous journey.

I'm working as hard as before but setting aside personal time without feeling
guilty about it. I find myself happier and working more efficiently.

~~~
haploid
"I spent about a month ... not reading TechCrunch"

Wait, and this was a bad thing?

------
toadi
Energy wise it can also be unhealthy lifestyle: not enough vitamins, Not
enough exercise, ... You don't feel it when you are young but getting older
you can't get that easily away with abusing your body.

------
gorbachev
I can definitely relate.

It's been about 15 years since I had mine. I slept a lot, too, and basically
stopped all social interactions for roughly two months. Messed me up pretty
good.

It's good that it happened early in my professional career and before I had
any dependents. I am now able to better self-regulate and have been able to
pull back when appropriate without getting in too deep.

But most importantly I learned not to take work so seriously. It's not really
all that important in the grand scheme of things.

------
narsil
I'd have to agree with iqster in that it doesn't seem to be burn-out as much
as doing something new. He doesn't seem to talk much about the symptoms listed
at <http://jacquesmattheij.com/Are+you+suffering+from+burn-out> although he
said he has them (even "if [he] didn't know" it?). Not that I doubt his story
or anything, but he seemed motivated enough to build new things and not sulk
in depression (symptom #10).

 _"When you're burned out change, do something that is as far away from what
you were doing when you were burned out."_

I guess this means he defines being burned out as tired of what you are
currently doing, and not burning out on doing something productive altogether.
In that case, he's probably right in saying that you should change when you're
burned out.

~~~
DuncanIdaho
Why are you and iqster twisting words?

How is becoming incapable of doing what you trained your whole life for, due
to too much of it not burnout? He even lists symptoms he experienced.

Jacques was lucky that he had funds to start something unrelated (like living
his life) and productive, but he kept repeating that his business could suffer
if he didn't have people who could take care of it (or whatever). The fact is
that he couldn't bring himself to do what he was doing until that point of
life to make a living.

What does define burnout then?

~~~
haploid
How is it possible for you to become "incapable" of working? Aside from
debilitating injury, of course.

If the only thing standing in your way is attitude and motivation, it's fairly
trivial to get over it, sack up, and get back to work.

~~~
DuncanIdaho
Its easy for an able bodied person to call person in a wheelchair lazy.

~~~
haploid
Poor analogy. I already excepted physical disability in my comment.

Physical conditions, or cognitive events such as stroke, that make you unable
to work are NOT analogous to losing motivation or getting bored.

~~~
DuncanIdaho
My mother has borreliosis. She got ill 10 years before it was known to be a
disease. She is also a workaholic and for 10 years she was told that she ain't
nothing wrong with her and that she's lazy by her very own doctor. And her
response was: "mr. Doctor, now that I know how laziness feels, I promise I
won't ever call anybody lazy again."

It's a tangent I know, but look at your attitude. And I sure as hell hope you
don't ever burn out to find out how it feels and for you to tell me how well
are you able to work. I'd rather have you ignorant for the rest of your life.

Let me say this much it might not be as hard as stroke, but It sure as hell
feels worse than losing motivation or getting bored.

------
rbarooah
Could it be that the human nervous system just didn't evolve to keep doing the
same thing for years on end, and so our industrialized culture isn't good for
us?

------
michaelochurch
I've had severe burnouts, and don't want to go through one again. It sucks and
it's a waste of time. I've avoided it this far by simply refusing to sacrifice
that much. There are some things (e.g. my relationship with my girlfriend)
that I will not sacrifice. At 50 hours per week, I expect an explanation. At
60 hours, I want to be paid back in vacation time. If this means I'm fired,
I'm fired. Unfortunately, not everyone has this option, but this approach has
kept burnout at bay thus far.

It's not that I object to working more than 40 hours per week. Considering the
time I spend reading about technology and learning new things, plus side
projects-- programming, writing, game design-- I've probably been working
65-75 hours per week on average since high school. But if a boss wants direct
control over _all_ of that 65, there better be a damn good reason for this
arrangement to exist, especially because I learn a lot more on self-directed
work than I do by doing what I'm told to do.

I think this is a great essay. I think motivational crises happen because
"work" for most people is psychological monoculture, and we're not built to be
that way. I get annoyed when people idealize hunter-gatherer existence, but it
was better in one regard: people did a lot of different things (making
clothes, building houses, finding food) for work. Specializing for a few years
to solve a hard problem is great, but no one's working life should be limited
involuntarily to one tiny corner of one discipline, a sub-specialty for which
if demand for it collapses, that person is utterly fucked.

If you want to see the desperation of the modern working person, consider what
working people do on their vacations: picking their own fruit, hiking, working
on open-source projects. They're so deprived of opportunities to actually
_work_ by their office jobs that when they have free time, they actually do
activities that most humans would consider work. I wrote about this phenomenon
here ([http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/those-who-
wor...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/those-who-work-for-
free-and-are-paid-to-do-nothing/)). It's the fact that their lives are
consumed by work-that-isn't-work that makes these motivational crises so
common.

Unfortunately, outside of the most innovative few percent of technology
startups, burnout is treated as a feature rather than a bug. Look at Wall
Street or the mainstream "corporate ladder". It's a war of attrition: wear
people down until 95 percent have motivational crises and quit or get fired,
then choose the (badly damaged, but still functional) remaining 5 percent to
be the next generation's leaders.

