
20M historical artifacts destroyed in Brazil National Museum fire - emersonrsantos
https://www.cnet.com/news/20-million-historical-artifacts-destroyed-in-brazil-national-museum-fire
======
munfred
I'm brazilian, I visited the museum in 2013, a year before the world cup. It
was very memorable to me because it's essentially the only museum in Brazil
that was an European style natural history museum (especially since there are
so few museums in Brazil).

I walked there, it's about half a mile from the Maracanã Stadium, as you can
see on the picture here [1] (in portuguese). As I passed by the stadium, I
distinctly remember large banners bragging that over 700 million reais were
being spent to renew the stadium. That was about $300m at the time, a truly
outlandish ammount in brazilian reality.

I then visited the museum, which I thoroughly enjoyed, and took note of the
fact that an entire wing was closed "for indeterminate time". I asked the
staff and the reason was, obviously, budget cuts. I took another few years,
just after the government secured reelection in 2015, that the government let
the gravity of the fiscal situation surface, by which point there was no
coming back from a 5-10 year long economic and political crisis that is still
unfolding.

With regards to the museum, it should be noted that it was operating on a
reduced annual budget, receiving only 60% of the 550,000 reais (less than
$150k) allocated funds from the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro [2]. If
these numbers sound like a pittance, it's because they are. I will not be
surprised if this fire was started by something as simple as an electrical
malfunction of an old circuit that should have been replaced decades ago.

It really saddens me to see this news, that museum was something very unique
for Brazil, but I'm not surprised. Brazil has been running on life support for
two years now and I think the situation will continue worsening for a few more
years. I was thinking the country would stave off becoming a second Venezuela,
but the government and politicians seem set on running everything to the
ground. I'm not holding my breath for our presidential elections, which are
happening next month. I am sure that nothing other than sad words and perhaps
some political opportunism will come out of this incident, and that no serious
efforts will be done to learn from this situation and prevent similar ones
from happening in the future. Unlike the US where there is serious inquiry and
learning when bad things happen, the brazilian modus operandi in any such
situation is to say "oh what a tragedy", turn a blind eye to root causes, and
go on as usual. I am very glad I got out of Brazil to pursue graduate studies
in the US, and I truly hope never to have to go back.

[1] [https://g1.globo.com/rj/rio-de-
janeiro/noticia/2018/09/02/mu...](https://g1.globo.com/rj/rio-de-
janeiro/noticia/2018/09/02/museu-nacional-guarda-acervo-de-mais-de-20-milhoes-
de-itens.ghtml)

[2] [https://g1.globo.com/rj/rio-de-
janeiro/noticia/2018/09/02/mu...](https://g1.globo.com/rj/rio-de-
janeiro/noticia/2018/09/02/museu-nacional-sofre-com-a-falta-de-reforma.ghtml)

~~~
matheusmoreira
Everybody knows what the root cause is: corruption. Everything in this country
can be explained by that. Even people with integrity will eventually be
corrupted because it's the only way to get things done. What can citizens do
about that? I don't know.

I'm glad you got to visit the museum before it was destroyed.

~~~
andai
>Even people with integrity will eventually be corrupted because it's the only
way to get things done.

Could you expand on this, or maybe give an example?

~~~
matheusmoreira
Even if you become a politician, you cannot do what you set out to do without
support from others. They will ask you to your face what kind of profit
they'll be making off of your changes or reforms. Why should they support you?
What's in it for them? If they don't like the answer, you might as well give
up because it's not happening. There is no such thing as "this idea is
objectively good, let's put it in practice".

I don't know when it started but it's part of the government's culture now.
It's common knowledge too: people talk about institutionalized corruption
openly, citing investigations, comments by officials and even judges. It's a
systemic problem and I have no idea what people are supposed to do in order to
fix something like that. It's very demotivating and demoralizing.

This is actually a huge reason why lots of people want the military
dictatorship back. The logic is (1) the military cares about Brazil and
believes in the country's potential, and (2) they will do whatever they
believe is necessary to make the country great, regardless of any individual's
interests. Our history with dictatorships doesn't quite validate that logic,
obviously.

------
personlurking
I didn't see this story was already posted before I tried to post it via
another link. But here's my comment:

This is on par with The Smithsonian or the British Museum burning to the
ground. It's where Brazil's Declaration of Independence was signed and it was
the residence of the Portuguese Royal Family for decades.

While the closest fire station is 500 meters from where the fire happened, and
the National Museum is located in front of a lake (in a place called Quinta da
Boa Vista), they had issues accessing their water supply - for which they are
the entity responsible - and whole areas of the wooden, termite-infested
museum burned while they tried to sort the water supply out.

The museum was in disrepair for several years, with the media reporting on it
repeatedly, but their govt budget for 2018 was a mere $13,500. Since 2010, it
was the fourth important Brazilian museum to be burnt down due to fire (or
rather, lack of a proper fire prevention system).

Not from the article, but important to emphasize:

"The museum of Quinta da Boa Vista had the largest collection of Egyptian
mummies outside of Egypt, the largest collection of Pompeii outside of Italy,
the mummies of the American civilizations, the fossils of Luzia, the oldest
homo sapiens ever found in Brazil. Largest meteor to ever fall into the
country. A huge collection of dinosaur fossils."

And, finally, I'll add that the museum was where physical evidence of new
species was mandatorily catalogued. It's a loss for so many other branches
outside history, like biology.

------
alister
The article says that the cause is not yet known, but I'm thinking it might be
an electrical fault or bad wiring, which seems like a common problem for older
structures in Brazil (or anywhere in the world).

A short circuit caused a massive fire at another big museum in Brazil in 2015,
the Museu da Língua Portuguesa[1] in Sao Paulo.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_Portuguese_Langu...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_the_Portuguese_Language#2015_fire)

------
moultano
The museum is asking for people who have photos of the exhibits to send them
in to this address. isabeladfrreitas@gmail.com
[https://mobile.twitter.com/TetZoo/status/1036619354924875776](https://mobile.twitter.com/TetZoo/status/1036619354924875776)

------
Firerouge
Surely a 5.5Ton meteorite could survive the heat off a building fire... Right?

The director's statement that everything has been lost seems rather
pessimistic. There must be some sort of digital catalog of what was present in
the museum that'll preserve it in some form.

~~~
danso
The museum was reportedly in disrepair from lack of funds and appears to have
a non-effective fire suppression system. I don’t think it’s a given that it
had a robust digital archive.

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/fire-
engulfs-b...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/03/fire-engulfs-
brazil-national-museum-rio)

~~~
ericdykstra
Millions of priceless artifacts destroyed due to negligence by Brazil and all
of the museums that loaned artifacts to a museum that didn't care to protect
them.

~~~
samstave
How are we to know that the fire isnt a cover for a massive heist?

~~~
alister
Talking about museum heists in Rio, I went to see the Museu da Chácara do Céu
-- an art museum hidden away on a mountain top -- because they had a Dalí, a
Picasso, a Monet, and a Matisse according to a guidebook. I didn't see any of
them. The front desk told me that they were all taken in a heist. They had a
poster offering a surprisingly low R$5000 reward, about US$1250, for their
recovery.

------
natch
Questioning the wisdom of having massively centralized stores of physical
artifacts right now. Museums, libraries...

~~~
toomanybeersies
On the other hand, if you have them scattered all over the place, you're more
likely to lose them bit by bit as they get lost, forgotten, or broken.

The other reply to your comment mentioned the Library of Alexandria. If the
library wasn't there to store all the books/scrolls, and they were instead
scattered around, how many of them would've survived to the modern day?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The obvious answer is to ensure that we
have as many backups as possible, in various locations. One of my tasks for
the next few months is to backup all my important files (mostly photos), so
that I have a copy at my house and a copy on the cloud. Then I'm also going to
burn them to archival DVDs and send the DVDs to my parents' house, which is in
another country. That way, if I somehow lose all my different backups, I've
got much bigger problems (e.g. global disaster, nuclear war, etc).

~~~
laurent123456
Yes since most of these objects are unique, there's no easy way to preserve
them. Proper funding for the museum would be a good start and then digitising
as much as possible for backup. The high quality photos that the Portrait
Gallery did of their collection is a great example [0]. For other objects, 3D
scans would be a good way to preserve as much information as possible in case
of a disaster.

[0]
[https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitZoom/mw115...](https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitZoom/mw11574/William-
Shakespeare?LinkID=mp04051&search=sas&sText=shakespeare&OConly=true&role=sit&rNo=0)

~~~
andai
3D scans of museum artefacts are a great idea for another reason: they make
the collection accessible to anyone with 3D goggles (or a phone, really),
rather than the tiny fraction of a percent able and willing to travel across
the world.

------
narag
In Asimov's Foundation book series, after ten thousands years Humanity loses
all memories of Earth, even its location, after it was abandoned because it
became radioactive. The theme of History volatility is recurring: some key
events in the multi-century plot get also forgotten. The loss causes a feeling
of sadness, but at the same time --and I guess this was his intention--
remarks that human spirit, the ideas of freedom and fraternity, is the
important thing and what deserves to endure.

I'm sorry to hear the news but let me keep this bit: "As of writing, no deaths
or injuries have been reported."

~~~
toomuchtodo
Off topic: I just realized that Pixar cribbed off Asimov for WALL-E (or the
parallels are quite coincidental). Would’ve never thought of it without your
comment. Kudos!

------
gassiss
Funny thing, I live in Rio de Janeiro, and no one is talking about it today.

That's how much people care. It's sad.

------
tomohawk
If things were so bad, why did they not consider divesting? By hoarding these
treasures, they merely put them at great risk, eventually assuring their
destruction.

If you have someething of worth, you have a responsibility to take care of it,
and, if you cannot take care of it, then ensure it gets into the hands of
someone who will.

~~~
williamscales
> why did they not consider divesting?

I think we can imagine many reasons why folks who aren't motivated to fund the
museum wouldn't be willing to swallow their pride.

That said, I wonder if there's a role for a global museum rescue organization.
It could be funded by anyone who wants to help and their role could be to go
in to troubled museums and help out.

It seems to me that this might touch on cultural sensitivities however. People
might be scared that foreigners are coming in and will steal their artifacts.

------
frakr
It would be an exciting mystery novel for this fire to be a coverup for a
massive theft of antiquities.

------
skookumchuck
Concentrating irreplaceable artifacts in a museum just magnifies the
probability of losing them all.

~~~
haney
Keeping them in lots of separate places just magnifies the probability of the
public not being able to view them.

~~~
ZenPsycho
Usually the public viewing areas are limited in space. The bulk of a 20
million artefact collection would have to be kept in more recently built
warehouses, possibly underground, and kept near by the main museum. In the
event of a fire they can be sealed and filled with argon gas, exactly the same
as any highly sensitive data centre, such as for instance, the IRS data
centre, or the stock market. Funding for such things should have been a no
brainer considering the high potential economic value of these objects. The
Brazilian government should have thought of this building as though it's a
bank, because it basically is, if you consider that the museum could have
decided to, for instance, sell off most of the collection if it decided to,
and have ended up well ahead of losing essentially billions of dollars.

~~~
MattBlissett
> The bulk of a 20 million artefact collection would have to be kept in more
> recently built warehouses

That's not often the case. These museums were built to house these
collections, and often include rooms full of drawers, compacting shelving etc
with the collected objects. This incudes the basement, but not only the
basement.

For example, the Natural History Museum in London has "the majority" of their
80 million specimens stored in the museum in London.

You may be able to go on a behind-the-scenes tour of your local museum.

------
kristianov
Looks like an inside job. The artifacts are stolen, and the museum is torched
to destroy evidence..

------
revskill
We need a way to convert back-forth real thing <-> digital things. Then we
could backup everything on Earth and move to the Moon, or Mars, for example.
It's the only way to move our stuffs any where we want.

~~~
bcaa7f3a8bbc
DPC & PDC. Digital-Physical Converter, Physical-Digital Converter. Sounds like
a good choice of terminology for a new Sci-Fi book.

~~~
Jedi72
Sounds like replicators in Star Trek

~~~
ztjio
Ironically, the types of things that one would put into a museum in that
universe are specifically the types of things that replicators can't get
right.

