
The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012) - dredmorbius
https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/
======
arm85
It appears, halfway through reading this, it's become password protected.

~~~
boringg
I think its somehow related to the hackernews hug of death

~~~
mantlepro
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200621094606/https://www.other...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200621094606/https://www.otherhand.org/home-
page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/)

~~~
seesawtron
How come the actual post in now uesrname/password protected? Did the original
author intend to use it commercially?

~~~
raimue
I would assume the site hit its traffic limit. The password protection was
then added by the web hosting service. It is accessible again right now.

~~~
boringg
I assumed same thing. The question is why would they put a traffic limit on
it? Seems like it goes against the hope for the website of generating
readers... though I guess if he's paying for all the servers himself it makes
sense to block at a certain point.

~~~
seesawtron
Seems to working again.

------
readarticle
Possibly my favorite piece of writing on the Internet, a substantive, totally
engrossing investigative mystery set on what feels like the Martian frontier.

The writer’s descriptions of preparing for searches limited by the environment
to a couple of hours might as well have taken place in an airlock, and
(spoilers!) when they finally turn up some evidence towards the end and manage
to involve the local scattered populace & sheriff in the hunt before the
payoff...

Read with a tab of Google Earth open and follow along with the clues for a
weirdly immersive experience, preferably on a hot and dry day!

~~~
paulcole
> Turned out I was experiencing the onset of Graves Disease (a friggin’ chick
> thing that hardly ever happens to guys!!)

One of _many_ passages that _really_ turned me off of this as a piece of
writing. It’s a thorough collection of amateurish blog posts but is it
anything more than that? Not to me.

~~~
Fezzik
The story is still fantastic, despite some poor phrasing. Graves Disease does
predominately occur in women, so what the author is saying is true. It may not
be the way I would phrase it, but instead of imputing malice or
amateurishness, I opt to think the author was trying to be humorous/add some
levity to the story and it just may not have worked for me (or you) in places.
Which is okay. Heck, the author even leads with stating that his “usual
writing style tends to be somewhat lighthearted and flippant”.

Edit, to add: I think it is a great thing that every article on the web is not
crafted like a think-piece in The New Yorker. That would be exhausting.

------
zwieback
We (German family) went to Death Valley as tourists in the 80s and we're
puzzled by the obsession everyone had with carrying enough water but of
course, being German, we complied. It wasn't terribly warm, it was December,
and later that day a record breaking thunderstorm dumped on us. We stayed at
Furnace Creek, which was amazing, but the road flooded and we had to backtrack
the next day instead of passing through.

Now, after decades of living in the western US I understand how easily you can
die in the wilderness but at the time it seemed exaggerated.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
I'm puzzled by the "european" take on wilderness situations. Even when going
on "normal" hikes i.e. actively maintained trails, I always take 24-48 hours
of emergency water/supplies because even maintained trails can be dangerous.

Is this viewpoint specifically because of lack of context as how far away help
can be?

Though thinking about it, I think you average American city dweller probably
would have a same mentality

~~~
perl4ever
When I was a freshman in college in Arizona, I went on a short "rock climbing"
trip, nothing that strenuous or requiring equipment or particular experience,
just clambering over large rocks on a warm and sunny, but not scorching day.

We were told to bring water, but I only took a small water bottle, and it
didn't last that long. I was kind of shocked when my vision just went all
blank and red with some random sparkles. One moment I could see, the next I
was fully conscious but blinded. I wasn't that far away from other people, but
I wasn't right next to anyone. Luckily I wasn't that far from rocks that
provided shadow where I could get out of the sun, but I was afraid that by
doing so, I would be hiding from anyone who could find me. And briefly I had
no idea if my condition was permanent, I was going to die, or what.

Anyway, I wasn't a European or city dweller, just a clueless kid not used to
the desert and/or outdoor activities much.

I think a lot of people do dumb things, and some survive and learn, and some
don't.

~~~
klyrs
I grew up with some great education about wilderness survival. I've made my
fair share of mistakes, for sure. Did a stint in search and rescue; learned a
ton about whole classes of mistakes I'd never considered.

When I hear people gushing about colonizing Mars, I think about how deadly
parts of our own planet are. I just shake my head. Probably 99.9% of our
population is completely unprepared for that level of hardship. I know I'm
not.

~~~
_curious_
99.9% of our current population will never be faced with the option to even
visit Mars

------
sampo
Earlier discussions

2015, 1 comment:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065)

2016, 61 comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567)

2019, 38 comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057)

------
kolanos
Highly recommend a stay at the Furnace Creek Inn in the summer time. There's a
stone in-ground pool there surrounded by stone pillars. The pool naturally
maintains a comfortable 85 degrees even at night. At night, if you're lucky,
you will be presented with the most amazing night sky you've ever seen. Then
suddenly, you'll start to hear squeaks and as though a blanket were pulled
over the star scape you'll realize there are thousands of bats overhead. Most
will keep their distance, but during one of my visits one fell into the pool
and was struggling to get out. Bats can carry rabies among other things, so
had to be careful, but was able to nudge the bat to the edge of the pool with
the combination of waves and a broomstick.

Don't go hiking in the summer, though. Although I don't think any sane person
would even consider it after spending just 15 minutes in 125 degree heat. It's
still an experience like no other. If you go any other time of year you're
simply not getting the full Death Vally Experience(tm).

~~~
hef19898
We attempted a family hike, day trip, on Corsica a couple years back. Took
plenty of water, waited for the afternoon, etc. Turned back after less then
half the way due to sun and heat.

------
valuearb
Don’t read this. It will suck you in and you won’t be able to stop reading
until the end, then you will want to lose yourself in his spy plane story.

You have been warned.

~~~
hef19898
He has a spy plane story? You mean person, you!

------
pietre
One of my favourite articles on the internet, fascinating read!

If you like The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans you probably like this one
as well: [https://www.outsideonline.com/1922711/raising-
dead](https://www.outsideonline.com/1922711/raising-dead)

------
dredmorbius
Submission inspired in part by the McCandless story a couple of days ago.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23574673](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23574673)

Wilderness, even in the lower 48, can indeed be wild. You can find yourself in
trouble, and walking dead, quite quickly.

That said, there's beauty in even the starkest landscapes, and a respectful
and properly prepared visit will reward with memories for a (long, prosperous)
lifetime.

------
INTPenis
Well that was riveting, bit of a cliffhanger at the end there. I had hoped for
more closure, just like the author.

What stands out is how the author leaks information to people in the first
parts of the story, and then is peeved at the Sheriff's department keeping him
out of the loop near the end.

The author says they trusted the wrong person but really they should have
trusted no one. You live and you learn.

This article cannot convey to me, a european who has never seen wilderness,
what Death Valley really is.

I still don't understand why or how the family would set out from their van,
not in the direction their van came from but rather further into the
wilderness. With wine and beer as their only apparent sources of liquids.

This seems the biggest issue here, people underestimating Death Valley, I mean
it should be apparent from the name.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
I find that in modern times, people have no idea how much nature is out to
kill them.

Nature does not give a shit about you. Just because something is a national
park does not mean its Disney Land.

I've driven through Death Valley, never hiked (though i wish to do so some
day), and I would not wish to deviate from known roads ever. Its a flat huge
stupidly hot desert. If you get lost, welp.

Even the main road gets extremely dodgy at a few/many places.

Though if you're lucky you'll find the green patch somewhere in there (a damn
golf course in the middle of the desert)

~~~
jiscariot
It really is an amazing national park. The vastness of it all is stunning--you
have Batwater Basin at -282' elevation and Telescope peak at 11k. My partner
and I hiked Wildrose Peak 9k (+2200) because Telescope had too much snow on
it. The size of the park really hits home when you see that 2-inches on the
NPS map takes you 1.5hrs by car.

Our rental car was punished pretty hard by the roads, but held up like a
champ. There was no way we were getting to the roads that DVG were lost on.
The morbid streak in me wanted to find the bush described in [1], but we had
to give up after an hour or so. There is something about tying a place to a
story. Will definitely be back to explore the park more.

If you are tenting, reserve your site early, because there are only a couple
camp areas that aren't engulfed by pull-behinds and their generators running
24/7.

[1] [https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-
rescue/search...](https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-
rescue/searching-for-norman-cox/)

~~~
rconti
Consider going in the winter. At least, don't go in the summer. Although we
did get snowed on in March one year.

I took a motorcycle trip with a friend once, and daytime temps were in the low
70s around sea level in January. Of course, it got very very cold at night, so
if you get stuck/lost, that's a whole other set of problems to deal with. We
didn't take any risks on our trip, but after seeing how badly my skidplate and
oil filter got damaged on some 4wd trails, I'm glad I didn't have to get it
hauled out by a specialty towing business to the tune of.. thousands? of
dollars.

I suppose it depends on what you're looking to do, but from a "general
tourist" standpoint, the few major roads are paved and in excellent condition
(or, at least, before the flooding). Across the valley from the Mono Lake area
where you enter the area from the west, through Panamint, into the park
proper, and all the way out to Nevada.. And from Ubehebe Crater in the north,
way down to Zabriske point and out to Las Vegas to the south.

The large tourist attractions are on these paved roads, and even a lot of the
hiking is just a short 2 mile drive down a well-graded gravel road. Though I
understand the road to Scotty's Castle, if it's open yet, is somewhat rougher.

On the flip side, the remote areas are truly remote. Racetrack Playa is 20
miles down a horrible washboard road from Ubehebe Crater (which itself is
about as remote as you can get on a paved road in the park) and I only
recommend you drive it in a vehicle owned by someone you truly hate, as it
won't be the same again. You won't get stuck or lost, though. Unless you try
the "shortcut" across Lippincott pass that looks so much easier on a map than
driving back the way you came.

~~~
ghaff
>Racetrack Playa is 20 miles down a horrible washboard road from Ubehebe
Crater (which itself is about as remote as you can get on a paved road in the
park) and I only recommend you drive it in a vehicle owned by someone you
truly hate, as it won't be the same again.

Finally got there on my last trip a couple years ago. My friend and I decided
to splurge and go with a guide from Farabee Jeep rentals. It turned out the
road itself isn't as scary as the routes with sharp dropoffs. Neither I nor my
fairly conservative friend would especially hesitate to drive it ourselves on
a future occasion but we'd definitely take a properly equipped rental jeep
rather than use a standard rental car. If nothing else, the route must be
killer on tires and who knows what the spare and jack situation is with a
standard rental. (To say nothing of the fact you're violating your contract.)

~~~
rconti
Oh, there's nothing remotely bad about the road other than the washboards.
There's nothing scary about it.

We were able to cruise at ~40mph and generally passing 4 wheel vehicles, but
by the end of the trip my shocks were totally blown.

This was the experience of Edmunds with most of the pickup trucks, even with
"offroad package" that they took there. Basically, passenger cars and pickup
trucks just aren't built for the abuse.

[https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/death-valley-torture-
test...](https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/death-valley-torture-
test-2017-honda-ridgeline-vs-2016-toyota-tacoma-trd-off-road-comparison-
test.html)

------
mukilane
This is a rabbit hole. The amount of details and the work is startling.

------
cameldrv
If you liked this, I'd also highly recommend Jay Penner's "companion" article,
which goes into more geographic detail [1], along with a Google map [2], as
well as another nice map of the overall route [3]

[1] [https://www.jaypenner.com/blog/the-hunt-for-death-valley-
ger...](https://www.jaypenner.com/blog/the-hunt-for-death-valley-germans-a-
harrowing-mystery) [2]
[https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1lbwNzfGD0a0vSi...](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1lbwNzfGD0a0vSiKz6ikws7ASNr-r8eJE&ll=35.8383568404503%2C-116.87990485000003&z=11)
[3] [https://i.redd.it/gwle2o1tdjp01.png](https://i.redd.it/gwle2o1tdjp01.png)

------
ChrisMarshallNY
This was an awesome read.

This guy is obsessive. He really takes this stuff seriously, and is a
reasonably good writer.

It is, however, a _long_ read. I suspect that some editing could have reduced
its length.

------
tinbad
Link seems to password protected for me(?)

~~~
boringg
I think it's somehow related to the hackernews hug of death. I was reading
halfway through the older story and got the same issue.

~~~
raimue
Same happened to me. Luckily I could finish my read with the help of
web.archive.org, which has all parts archived.

------
gobblegobble2
If you're curious what the area looks like, check out this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-KUF-
xiV5o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-KUF-xiV5o)

------
hef19898
Finally finished it. That guy brought very important closure to the families.
Kudos for that.

It got me thinking so, about just how fast a nice family trip can turn in to
life-and-death nightmare. Sometimes life just sucks, it seems.

------
_curious_
The amount of resources invested into this for so long is surprising - not to
mention the risks that many people assumed in putting their own lives in
danger for bones at best?

It's interesting how the regard for human life(s) in the city seems so small
relative to the lengths which people in rural areas/national parks go at
times..imagine if this amount of manpower, attention, and money were applied
to all missing person(s) everywhere - for years and years.

I can understand the international traveler element, which further makes one
wonder if the same amount of resources would have been applied were the
missing individuals of American origin?

Also, the author's random mention of his pornography habits was cringey and
only cheapened what is an otherwise enjoyable read.

~~~
arm85
Yes, I thought so too. But wondered if it might have been a comment about the
general state of the Internet instead.

~~~
_curious_
That makes more sense.

------
Rebelgecko
Is that Pete Carlson of "Pete Carlson's Golf & Tennis"?

