
Ask HN: How could a tech company function without management? - bsvalley
I was wondering if it would be possible for a tech company to function without the 1st layer of management. Could the hiring&#x2F;firing process be handled externally by a 3rd company? Could software replace status reports and time tracking? Could software also make sure that careers are on track and that employees are moving forward towards their goals? Employees problems could be solved at a Sr. management level.<p>In other words, do we really need that 1st layer of management?
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brudgers
Programmer Anarchy is a methodology for when Extreme Programming is not
extreme enough or Agile is not agile enough or just because it can work. Fred
George [1] is probably its most well known proponent. It's not a gimmick or
joke.

A presentation: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk-
CF7klLdA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk-CF7klLdA)

An article: [https://martinjeeblog.com/2012/11/20/what-is-programmer-
anar...](https://martinjeeblog.com/2012/11/20/what-is-programmer-anarchy-and-
does-it-have-a-future/)

[1]: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/fred-
george-5965b5](https://www.linkedin.com/in/fred-george-5965b5)

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romanhn
Google tried it, didn't last long [1]. Managers are information hubs -
somebody's gotta take in the streams of information from team members, Sr.
management, other engineering teams, other departments, customers, random
stakeholders, etc. and distill them down, making sure every party has the
useful and relevant bits. Without managers everybody has to talk to everybody
else ... good luck with that.

[1] [https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-
man...](https://hbr.org/2013/12/how-google-sold-its-engineers-on-management)

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matt_s
A 1st layer of management doesn't need to be heavy handed manager types if the
employees hired are "managers of one" and can self-direct their work. The
"manager of one" wording comes from 37 Signals, read up on how they manage.

Software cannot make sure careers are on track and goals are met. Yes software
can track a todo list but career goals are a human activity to coach
employees. Imagine someone that is purely working on say mobile apps part of
the product set but wants to get some experience on the backend. Thats a
conversation since they may not feel comfortable (e.g. an introvert) jumping
on backend tasks since that might introduce some conflict with the team.
Finding out what motivates a person is a conversation, not a web form.

If you have a small group of people that are self-motivated (aka manager of
one) working together on various software projects, what would status reports
or time tracking be used for?

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j45
Thinking about the things that might need to be in place for a company to
function without management:

\- Self-organizing and Self-directed employees are often the hardest to find.

\- The HR process, when done correctly, allows individuals to join a group to
realize their potential that they may not have elsewhere.

\- The group's goals would have to be somehow set. I recall Clay Shirky's
excellent essay on how a group is it's own worst enemy and can't help but
wonder how it might play out in an environment like this.

[http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html](http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html)

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NumberCruncher
The 1st layer of management is a shock absorber between the senior management
and the employees. The senior management doesn't want to solve the employees'
problems, they want to see some random shit getting done without having to
deal with complains of burned out employees, rules of [whatever business you
are in] or even with the laws of physics.

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danreed07
Doubtful. Hiring and firing decisions require domain specific knowledge and
day-to-day knowledge of operations. A the third-party company would have to
have someone on-site at all times to gauge the needs of the company.

Software could arguably replace status reports and time-tracking, but a
compelling incentive system needs to be put in place to encourage this
behavior. It's often my experience that people skimp on administrative duties
when left to their own devices, including myself.

"Software" at its current manifestation cannot manage career tracks. Machine
learning may change.

Senior management level do not have time to deal with employee problems. They
generally are tasked with higher order duties, which generally fill their 40
or so hours.

All evidence suggest that the first layer of management is needed.

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usgroup
Presumably if 10 managers got together to form a company they wouldn't hire a
manager.

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jon-wood
They probably wouldn't hire a manager, but I'd be surprised if they didn't
naturally end up with certain people taking responsibility for particular
areas. You've now got a director of sales, or a technical lead, in everything
but name.

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mythrwy
By keeping it really really small. No larger than one person.

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osrec
I think the key thing is your team needs to consist of driven, collaborative
people. Otherwise, you need managers to either provide direction or to resolve
conflicts. If everyone gets on and knows what they're doing in the team's
context, then managers don't have much of a role to play!

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dv_dt
Maybe look at stable cooperatives like the Mondragon corp.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation)

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edimaudo
Some sort of holocracy?

