
Greek island to run on wind, solar power - dnetesn
https://techxplore.com/news/2018-08-renewable-resort-greek-island-solar.html
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NKosmatos
That’s a good start, now if only the Greek government would allow us
individuals to use wind and solar energy (with a proper plan including a
battery storage system) without breaking the law. It’s illegal to own a house
not connected to the national grid.

~~~
walrus01
Would it be legal to connect a house to the national grid, and attach the
meter to a whole panel that has basically one live 230V 10A circuit on it,
with a 15W lightbulb connected? The rest of the house could have its own
offgrid panel and inverter system, islanded from the grid-connected breaker
panel.

~~~
NKosmatos
To answer your question (and a similar comment directly below) that's one
solution, but you still have to pay monthly charges and taxes even if you have
a "dummy" connection. Besides the fact that if the utility worker that checks
the electricity meters (yeah they're not online!), comes around for a reading
and sees that you have solar/wind you're screwed.

~~~
walrus01
You're screwed how? Because it's not allowed to have a photovoltaic system
that is separate from and islanded from the grid? As long as your meter and
the panel it is connected to are up to legal code, what is illegal?

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danaos
The Greek regulatory authority for energy is actively planning the connection
of most of the islands to the continental grid using submarine cables. [1]

On top of that Euroasia Interconnector will be connecting the grinds of
Greece, Cyprus and Israel forming the world's longest submarine power cable.
[2]

Connecting the power grid is cheaper long-term. Greece has roughly 200
inhabited islands.

[1]
[http://www.ekathimerini.com/230518/article/ekathimerini/busi...](http://www.ekathimerini.com/230518/article/ekathimerini/business/third-
phase-of-project-to-connect-islands-to-mainland-power-grid-put-to-tender)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroAsia_Interconnector#/media...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroAsia_Interconnector#/media/File:EuroAsia_Map.jpg)

~~~
drcross
From what I gather, the price of local generation has reached the point where
it is less than the cost of high voltage transmission. Add to that battery
storage will reach about 100kwh in the next two years and there's no reason
anywhere should need to be connected to the massive grids we've known in the
past.

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dmurray
What's the meaning of that battery number 100 kWh?

~~~
dafrie
I guess he means 100$/kWh...

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melling
Speaking of islands... How about Hawaii? They burn a lot of oil to generate
electricity. I wish we could speed up the move to wind and solar there.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/power-
plant...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/power-
plants/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c878c73f2d01)

~~~
sulam
Hawaii has _too much_ sun, because of the isolated nature of its electric
grid, meaning they have nowhere to shift power to or from. If we had a good
storage option, or if one was deployed in Hawaii, the situation would change
dramatically.

~~~
foota
I wonder if they could do some sort of pumped hydro with the ocean. Dam off a
bay somewhere?

~~~
maxerickson
Salt water is hard to work with.

Here's what a vaguely correctly sized station looks like:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludington_Pumped_Storage_Power...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludington_Pumped_Storage_Power_Plant)

The upper reservoir is measured in miles and is 300 feet above the lower
reservoir.

One half as big would still be pretty useful, but that's still big.

~~~
njarboe
Also, the volcanic geology of Hawaii means you want to have a very reliable
seal on the bottom of that reservoir or you will be leaking tons of salt water
into the local groundwater system. Possible, as modern landfills are sealed
this way, but much more expensive than a fresh water lake. Not sure it has
ever been done, actually.

As for damning off a bay; that does not work so well as you would want a
decent elevation drop for energy storage.

Edit: Reading over the Ludington pumped station wikipedia page, it does have a
sealed bottom. It is on another naturally porous geologic setting, sand dunes,
and is above the water table. Thus the need for a sealed reservoir.

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subpixel
I was bummed to learn that the electricity on some islands (like Providencia)
is provided by a diesel generator that runs 24/7\. This in a climate that is
sunny and windy pretty much all year.

~~~
mattygh
This is the case for almost every island in the world!

~~~
THE_PUN_STOPS
Notably, Block Island, off the coast of Rhode Island[1], is powered 100% by
five offshore wind turbines.[2] The Block Island generators were switched off
in 2017. It is awe inspiring to see the turbines up close via boat. It feels
like a vision of the future.

[1]: for international users: Rhode Island is a small US state which is not
actually an island.

[2]:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_Island_Wind_Farm](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_Island_Wind_Farm)

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rossdavidh
Hypothesis: the development of batteries, wind turbines, and solar panels,
combine to make it less necessary to live near to large population centers.
There was a time when the mill needed to be near a source of running or
falling water, and then later fossil fuels made that unnecessary, and
industrial production moved to different places. Batteries + wind/solar might
have a similar impact, making islands (and other remote places) have less of a
disadvantage then before.

Just a thought I had, which I have given about 90 seconds' consideration to.
Might be wrong.

~~~
drcross
You're right. In the future you may have a holiday home on the beach that you
power using your car when you go on trips for the weekend.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66D6spRemGk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66D6spRemGk)

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jnmandal
This is awesome. There are a so many places in the aegean where its cost
prohibitive to connect to existing electricity (even when its available within
a few kilometers). That problem, coupled with consistent presence of wind and
sun, makes its an excellent place for off-grid solutions to flourish.

~~~
jillesvangurp
Yes, it potentially also helps solve another problem many greek islands have:
water shortages. With surplus clean energy they could invest in desalination
plants to produce drinking water and stop depleting their natural resources.

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glenneroo
> TILOS—Technology Innovation for the Local Scale Optimum Integration of
> Battery Energy Storage

Not that it really matters, but I think somebody doesn't understand how
initials work.

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modells
Costa Rica IIRC leads the world in renewables, followed closely by some North
African and Middle Eastern countries.

~~~
toomanybeersies
There are several countries that run near 100% renewable. Most of them are
getting their electricity from hydro dams though, rather than solar and wind.

Hydro dams have their own environmental concerns.

~~~
rdc12
Too much Hydro (by percentage of generation) also leaves the power generation
at risk if a drought occurs too[1][2][3].

There is just too much uncertainty in long term seasonal rain fall levels,
especially with the effects of climate change as well as El Niño and La Niña
cycles. Resulting in low production years.

[1][http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-
green/sd...](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-
hydro-rain-20170227-story.html) [2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/malawi-
blackou...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/malawi-blackouts-
drought-hydro-power) [3]
[https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/mar/30/weatherwatch-
ha...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/mar/30/weatherwatch-hambling-
venezuela-hydroelectric-dam-guri-dry-reservoirs-colombia)

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ccnafr
I've been there. Most of them already do. People rarely rely on the main grid
anymore.

