
Tell HN: We built a solar-charging wireless backup camera for your car - mrshoe
https://pearlauto.com/rearvision
======
suprgeek
Great Product - Congrats on thinking thru and designing for a "Wire-Free"
experience, with Solar batteries and the clever hack of the OBD port connector
to offload some functions (wake-up on reversing etc).

That said - it seems it is 2-3 years too late to be launching this.

1)By 1 May 2018, all new US Cars will have back-up cameras by law [1]

2) Most Cars sold since 2011/12 seem to have integrated back-up cameras

3) $500 for a Car accessory (!) that by definition will be fitted on a lower
end car older model (since high end cars had this for a while) aka Low sales.

4)OBD port contention

Pivot Idea - Dash cam recorder (go in front plate) with AI for alerting based
on User set rules (in addition to Dash Cam recording)

[1]: [https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/nhtsa-
announces...](https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/nhtsa-announces-
final-rule-requiring-rear-visibility-technology)

Edit: Why in the name of funk did you design your website to take away manual
scrollability? If I want to quickly skim it I have to endure the pointless
transitions - I get that you want to enforce a certain flow - but let me
cleanly escape out of it as well,

~~~
grimmdude
I was excited to see something like this (my mom has been needing one), but
when I saw the price I thought the same thing. Why not get a professionally
installed one that's more convenient and harder for someone to steal for the
same price?

------
llamataboot
Interesting product, but I just don't see how the inconvenience of opening up
your phone, the concerns about using the ODB port, and the price point are
going to make this a starter. You can get an easy to install backup camera +
screen for half that, and no fumbling with a phone needed. If you already have
a screen in your stereo, you can get a camera for less than $100.

~~~
mrshoe
We designed our own magnetic phone mount, which comes with the product. Once
you start mounting your phone in your car (especially with our mount, which is
amazing), you won't want a separate screen for your camera. :)

The advantages of mounting your smartphone, with the cutting edge hardware and
active software ecosystem that come along with it, are truly huge. When I rent
a car now I am incredibly frustrated without the mount. Luckily ours has a
magnetic pluggable backend, so I can pull it off my adhesive mount and attach
the vent clip for use in other cars.

------
mrshoe
It's such an amazing feeling to put your blood and sweat into a product for
months and finally be able to share it with the world. It's great to take our
startup out of stealth mode today!

I couldn't imagine a better group of people to do it with, either.

~~~
dsl
How long has your team been working on this project? It seems like it is 2-3
years too late to market.

~~~
dang
> _How long has your team been working on this project? It seems like it is
> 2-3 years too late to market._

That reads like a dismissive swipe. Please guard against that here, especially
when responding to new work. It may be the default human tendency, but it's
destructive of thoughtful conversation. Not all new work is good, but most
things that do turn out to be good start small, and all invite a litany of
obvious objections while embryonic.

A better way to bring this up would be to provide more detail about your
comment's context (example: products X, Y, Z came out 2 years ago) and then
expressing your point as a sincere question (example: how is your product
different from X, Y, Z and isn't there a risk that the market is already
mature).

------
macinjosh
This is crazy expensive for what you get. Most newer cars have this feature
already and unless you have trouble turning your head I don't think it is
worth $500 adding to a low-end new or used car.

~~~
teej
All model 2018 cars are mandated to have them in the US, so there will be even
less of a market for this with new cars.

~~~
ng-user
Really eh? That's something I couldn't of imagined. Makes sense but still
surprised. Wonder if Canada will follow suit if we haven't already.

------
tlrobinson
First impressions:

1\. $499 is a _lot_. A lot of people who would be willing to pay that probably
already have backup cameras built into their cars.

2\. I'd rather have a fixed screen that's 100% always there and ready.
Sometimes I just want to hop in my car and not have to worry about pulling my
phone out. The magnetic mount looks nice though.

3\. ODB port may already be consumed by another gadget (e.x. Automatic). Could
you use a low-power accelerometer/gyro to detect backups instead?

------
cordite
So, this is really cool, but I park underground both at work and home. I have
doubts morning and evening sun is enough to charge this.

Also, what if I have something else already in the ODB port? It looks like I
have to get a Y splitter or something, but having dangling cords under the
steering wheel doesn't seem like a good idea.

~~~
mrshoe
Thanks!

Based on our design and testing, the solar should keep the vast majority of
users charged up (it has for me!). As a backup we do support USB charging as
well.

~~~
sah2ed
USB charging for the backup camera? How?

------
dsfyu404ed
OP dun goofed. This is redundant for cars but would be marketable on pretty
much everything bigger than a car. IMO you should target RVs, fleet truck/vans
and people towing trailers with this.

As others have mentioned, too expensive and too late for cars.

Pickups and vans have longer service lives and IIRC some are exempt from the
camera thing. People who DD small cars tend to suck at backing big stuff (like
company trucks).

Using it as a rear dashcam could help reduce liability (e.g. "my driver didn't
back into your fence and I have video to prove it"

Putting this on a trailer would make it easier to back into tight spaces with
precision.

Since it's wireless and a self contained unit it could be marketed for use on
boat trailers as well

A fleet that deploys these could easily swap them from vehicle to vehicle with
near zero cost.

RVs suck to back, camera makes that less so. There's also a lot of older RVs
out there since they depreciate so much they tend to get passed through lots
of owners and stick around a long time. A $500 camera can be swapped from RV
to RV and is an easy upsell when someone buys a used RV that they're likely
planning on sinking some $ into

You also can't see behind you very well with an RV. If you're towing a trailer
with ATVs, a small boat or something you can't see if it's back there unless
you get out and check.

The list goes on...

------
tzm
Great idea. Why use an OBD port? I suspect this will compete with other OBD-
dependent solutions in the future.

~~~
mrshoe
Aside from power, we do use the OBD port to detect things like reverse and
speed (to stop the video automatically when you hit 10mph).

In general we want to integrate our products into the car and the driving
experience as much as possible.

~~~
Terretta
That choice cost you three pre-sales. I have Automatic using the port, as do
many people I know with cash to spend on expensive car gadgets and older cars
to gadgetize.

I think you understand why Automatic, useful over 10 mph, needs to be more
integrated into the driving experience than you do.

------
gricardo99
At that price point I'd be worried it's an easily accessible target for theft.
Is there some way to pair it with your phone or car adapter such that it's
useless without those?

~~~
mrshoe
The camera frame is indeed paired with the car adapter at the factory, which
is a theft deterrent. They will not function without each other.

The RearVision also comes with a security tool that must be used to attach and
remove the camera frame.

------
walrus01
$499!?!?!

For $130 I can buy two really good quality 1080p dashcams and two 16GB
microSDHC cards (I know, not the intended function of this...) and mount one
facing forward and one to the rear.

~~~
Johnny555
A "good quality" dashcam for $65? Which one?

You still have to run wires to power your dashcam and display video where the
driver can see it -- that's what $500 buys, the need to _not_ have to add
wires to your car.

~~~
walrus01
[https://www.amazon.com/Black-Box-G1W-C-Capacitor-
Dashboard/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Black-Box-G1W-C-Capacitor-
Dashboard/dp/B00MIO2KRC)

search youtube for "G1W-C" for sample videos.

------
koolba
Why does it matter that it's solar powered if there's already a ready source
of electricity (i.e. your car battery)? Seems like it's only solar powered to
be facilitate being an after market add-on you can click onto the car.
Otherwise it'd require wiring.

~~~
slantyyz
I'm more curious how that built in LiOn battery would stay charged while
parked outside for a full work day on a super cold day in winter, when decent
sunlight is scarce. Has it been tested in a place where temperatures can dip
to -20C / -40C with wind chill?

~~~
Johnny555
The camera stays in low power mode (polling with BLE?) until woken up by the
OBD controller to tell it that the car is in reverse. It doesn't need much
power to stay charged.

~~~
rcthompson
I don't think it's a question of energy use, it's a question of whether the
battery can hold a charge under those conditions.

------
jbob2000
Very cool! I'm interested in your thoughts about car manufacturers including
them on cars now. In Canada, all new car models must have a backup camera, for
example. (Kinda funny how you feature brand new Porsches and Audis in your
product demos; both these cars have backup cameras!)

I still think there's a market for the product for older/used/classic
vehicles, but wondering what your perspective is on this.

~~~
mrshoe
Excellent question. It takes decades for new features to fan out to the
majority of new cars. After that it then takes decades more for those features
to reach saturation of all cars on the road, because only 7% of the car
population turns over each year.

The bottom line is it's generally 40 years from the point when features like
seat belts, air bags, traction control, and backup cameras are first
introduced and when they reach 95% saturation.

Throughout this adoption process, demand for these features among those whose
cars don't have them increases significantly!

~~~
Riseed
Excellent answer. Feature propagation & saturation is also a reason to
offer/develop a version that doesn't require an OBD port.

Your customer base consists almost exclusively of those who are both willing
to spend $499 on an accessory and who don't already have a reverse cam. Many
potential customers won't have an OBD port in their car because OBD-I wasn't
around until the '90s. Muscle car enthusiasts and parents (happy to spend $499
to prevent an accident) passing down an older car come to mind.

It would be great to see a second generation version that works without OBD.

------
swamp40
I am curious how much blacking out the solar cells reduces the incoming power.

It certainly looks cooler that way, though.

~~~
mrshoe
The solar window is actually transparent. Our PD team is second to none! They
were able to make the whole solar assembly look uniformly black while not
sacrificing solar efficiency.

------
lstodd
How are the data paths between camera and OBD module and the module and the
phone app secured?

~~~
mrshoe
We are using industry standard encryption algorithms for all of our wireless
traffic. We are also consulting with external security experts, in addition to
the expertise we have in-house.

All of our over-the-air firmware updates are cryptographically signed.

------
headconnect
Any chance there will be a European license plate frame size available? Seems
like a small change to reach a wider market. Possibly more relevant as well,
have you ever tried parking in one of the old cities in the continent? :)

~~~
mrshoe
We are initially shipping only in the US, but hopefully total world domination
will follow eventually. :)

------
stevewilhelm
I might pay for something like this if it was:

1\. designed for the front license plate

2\. recorded the last n minutes of driving to memory

3\. could trigger a copy of the last n minutes to a SD memory card or to my
phone.

~~~
astrange
The dashcam market is well developed, with the only real issue being you have
to run a USB cable in your car to power it. I don't think this would add
enough value over the ones you stick to your windshield.

For instance, I have this one; it's very small and not likely to get stolen:

[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UUS52YG?psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UUS52YG?psc=1)

Hasn't gotten me anything yet but I hope to get Youtube karma someday.

On the other hand, this product does add value, it just happens to be evil:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11934455](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11934455)

A backup camera would be great, since my car doesn't have one and there are
kids living next door, but my OBD port is already in use by another tech
gimmick…

------
JshWright
Looks like a really cool project. Is there a non-solar charging method, just
in case? Have you done much testing in less than ideal solar locations?

~~~
mrshoe
There is! The solar charging should be enough for most everybody. We have done
testing in a variety of locations. As a backup, though, it can be charged over
USB.

~~~
swamp40
Ahh, why not 12V?

------
cybrjoe
Question: what's the user experience like every time you get in the car? Do
you need to launch the app? I imagine that's what the OBD portion is for, but
I didn't think you could automatically launch apps from iOS. Does the Android
app offer a different experience?

~~~
mrshoe
We've really tried to make this experience as smooth as possible. The product
comes with a superb magnetic dash mount for your phone. Frequently our app
will show up on your lock screen in iOS, so you can just slide up to launch
into the video view.

We will of course leverage whatever tools both platforms provide to make the
launching experience as seamless as it can be! We can also take cues from
accelerometers, the OBD port, and other sensors, as you mention.

~~~
lstodd
Aha! The OBD port connection isn't even necessary since it's a trip to the
phone UI anyway.

So why OBD?

~~~
cybrjoe
I'm guessing the "cues" mentioned are triggering the app to show up on the
lock screen. Without it you'd be forced to sift through your apps every time
you back up. I don't think there's any other way to know for sure you're in a
car and will be backing up soon. Ideally you'd want your backup camera on
before the accelerometer knows you're backing up.

------
vonklaus
nevere EVER take away a users ability to scroll.

~~~
ww520
Agree. The site is kind of hard to scroll. The PgDown key doesn't work at the
second page. Pictures after full screen pictures with no delimitation is a
real turn off.

~~~
BHSPitMonkey
It's even worse with this site than most like it, since it randomly switches
between "scroll slightly to trigger a transition animation" and "scroll
normally to go down the page", and you can never predict which it's going to
be until you try and wait a few seconds for something to happen.

~~~
popey456963
So infuriating, see [0]

[0] [http://blog.arronhunt.com/post/66973746030/stop-
scrolljackin...](http://blog.arronhunt.com/post/66973746030/stop-
scrolljacking)

~~~
vonklaus
hahaha, funnily enough these guys are all ex-apple and I immeadiately assumed
they were going for the Apple page feel. I didn't like the apple mac redesign
but it is a lot more intuitive than this page, as after most of the animation
you are dropped back into a normal page scroll and it is _reasonably_
intuitive when you are scrolling vs. animating. I found it annoying but at
least I could grep what was happeneing

------
equasar
Does anyone know what's the battery life when is not being charged?

~~~
mrshoe
With literally zero solar charging and under normal usage, the battery should
last over a month. Most people get at least some solar charging, though! If
nothing else, at least while they are driving, parked at the grocery store,
etc.

------
gcb0
ugging into the odb port is dubious. I will surelly never get close to this
device. a usb or power socket version would look much more professional.

~~~
khedoros
They're also using information from OBD for car power state, backup state, and
speed (to turn the camera off when you're going 10MPH or more). For the way
they decided to implement it, I think they've got a slick device. How they
secure the data streams and communication with the dongle would be my big
questions.

------
bkmintie
Would love to see what the app experience is like outside of the camera view
(push notifications to launch, settings, etc.)

~~~
mrshoe
And I'd love to show it to you! :)

The video screen is definitely the main focus of the app, for obvious reasons.
When the video stops, we also show an app launcher screen that's optimized for
use in the car (large touch targets :) ), which you can configure to include a
few of your favorite music or nav apps.

------
oh_sigh
Are there any anti-theft features for this? Can someone just take the
rearvision off my license plate and go home with it?

~~~
mrshoe
The RearVision comes with a security tool that is used to attach and remove
the camera frame. The camera frame and the OBD adapter are also paired at the
factory and will not function in isolation.

~~~
oh_sigh
Thanks for the info...tell Tyler M I said hi!

------
qmr
Jesus fuck stop fucking with my scrolling.

Please fix your broken website, and fire your "designer".

------
yitchelle
What cars are you supporting at the moment, and what other cars on your road
map?

~~~
mrshoe
We do require an OBD port, which is present on all cars 1996 and newer.

Other than that, it should work on basically all cars, assuming you don't have
e.g. an existing backup camera that mechanically blocks the installation.

------
peterkshultz
Should a fender bender occur, I'd imagine insurance wouldn't cover getting
this replaced.

A native backup camera is seemingly more cost-effective.

------
wmichelin
That's very expensive

------
jebernier
$400!! No thanks

------
jebernier
$400! No thanks

------
dang
This looks great, and we particularly like that you showed up to tell the
story of what you've been working on. I hope a good discussion will ensure.
But we changed "Show HN" to "Tell HN" in the title, since the web page says
"preorder" and Show HN is supposed to be for when your thing is actually
available. I hope you'll come back and do a Show HN when you reach that stage.

There's nothing wrong with the post otherwise, since this is clearly a real
project and I suspect the community would be interested in learning about it.

~~~
mrshoe
Thanks dang! Totally understandable and I am happy to post again when we start
shipping them out.

------
Khao
This page has by far the worst scrolling interaction I've ever experienced.

First up : no scroll bar so there is literally no visual cue that I need to
scroll. Scrolling "activates" the next portion of content.

Somewhere around the middle part : I can scroll and see the scrollbar, but
WAIT! Another portion of the page starts hiding the scroll and hijacking the
scrolling to show something. Uggggh again?

Scroll some more : Scroll bar appears once more! I am free to scroll to the
bottom of the page. Nothing makes me hate a webpage more than some shenanigans
like this that breaks what a webpage should be.

~~~
tim_nuwin
holy cow, every time there's a Show HN, there's always someone who shits on
the web-page "hijacking" the scrolling. It's annoying commentary because
you're looking at it through a very narrow lens that 99% of the people don't
care about. For non-technical people, it's more intuitive having the screen-
focused on the main content.

~~~
dragonwriter
> every time there's a Show HN, there's always someone who shits on the web-
> page "hijacking" the scrolling.

Only when the Show HN is of a website that hijacks scrolling.

When it doesn't, surprisingly, there are neither complaints about hijacking
scrolling _nor_ complaints that would be resolved _by_ hijacking scrolling.

There may be a message in that.

> It's annoying commentary because you're looking at it through a very narrow
> lens that 99% of the people don't care about.

IME, non-technical people are thrown even harder by violations of basic
platform UI conventions like hijacking scrolling or having no indication that
scrolling is necessary.

