
McMansion Hell: The Devil Is in the Details - misnamed
http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/mcmansion-hell-devil-details/
======
adultSwim
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12286724](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12286724)

Origin blog post/series the 99% invisible post is on:
[http://www.mcmansionhell.com/post/148605513816/mcmansions-10...](http://www.mcmansionhell.com/post/148605513816/mcmansions-101-what-
makes-a-mcmansion-bad)

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harryh
On one hand I'm really sympathetic to the criticisms from this blog.

On the other hand people want big houses and they have a limited budget. They
can't afford a real mansion, so this is what they get instead. Is it really so
wrong for people to want a lot of space?

I wish there was more in this blog about how to do it right other than "have
enough money for a proper mansion" or "you should have a smaller living
space."

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jaxomlotus
The criticism in the article wasn't about people on a limited budget owning
big houses. It was about the lack of architectural cohesiveness in the big
houses they do build.

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majormajor
Seems like the same thing - isn't that pretty tied up to "don't have the
budget for a 'proper' architect"? Design is a get-what-you-pay-for field. Do
it piecemeal vs a single grand unified vision from the start and you end up
with something easier to pay for but less ideal.

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CapitalistCartr
Most mcmansions have zero budget for design. Fifteen thousand dollars on a
$600,000 job is good sense.

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sotojuan
As someone who lived in upper middle class Texas suburbia, I'm pretty
desensitized to "McMansions".

Aside from older houses (usually near the city center, small, and can be
expensive) or custom-designed houses (very expensive), there's not much choice
if you actually care about this stuff. Even the new apartment/townhome
complexes could be considered "McApartments".

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ktRolster
_Even the new apartment /townhome complexes could be considered
"McApartments"._

That's a problem here in SF, too. Andrea Palladio would have wept.

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intrasight
I believe the commenters so far have failed to address the main point: the
devil is in the details. And everyone knows why the details suck in this
category of McMansion: they are spec houses designed by beancounters. They
represent the aggregate current view of what would have maximum curb appeal.
That is the only design criteria for such houses.

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basseq
This is the equivalent of graphic designers presenting alternate proposals for
boarding passes and Craigslist. They're not wrong, and for those with a
specific sort of sensibility, the "imperfections" can be grating, but for 99%
of the population, they don't even _notice_ and it works just fine.

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dimino
You've said this in two places on this submission, but I challenge you on the
claim that "99% of the population" doesn't care what their house looks like.

I think a _lot_ of people do care.

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basseq
I agree: a lot of people care what their houses look like here. But 99% of the
population doesn't care about _this level_ of architectural nuance. And
certainly not the population of people who are in the market for these sorts
of homes in the first place (upper middle-class, suburban, etc.).

It's hard to prove a negative, but "despite all of this, the popularity of
McMansions is picking up again". If McMansions are as "bad" as the author
makes them out to be, and homebuyers "care" as much as you say they do, how do
you account for the market?

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dimino
If people actually didn't care, it would be of no consequence to hear their
home called a "McMansion", and yet I suspect we both would agree that folks
probably don't appreciate their home being critiqued such as how the blog
writes about homes.

The reality is, most people would care if they knew, but don't know and
therefore can't possibly care. It's not apathy, it's ignorance that drives the
sale of McMansions, even though McMansions _are_ "bad", in the sense that they
break architectural principles and are considered poor reflections of art
because of it.

Obviously art isn't required to prevent rain from falling on your head, but
the folks who are buying these houses are spending this extra money for
something other than the literal safety, aren't they? _If_ someone buys a
McMansion for any aesthetic reason, _then_ they are making a sub-optimal
choice.

I think the assumption the blog makes is that a McMansion is a _failed_
attempt at creating art, not a rejection of the concept of home beauty.

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reflexive
This reads like old-$ "highbrow" East-coast hate for the nouveau riche. What
is the alternative for someone who wants to build a house for a large family
while spending 6 (or low 7) figures, as opposed someone with Larry Ellison
money and Ivy League cultivated tastes?

"Cheap materials" \- that's valid, but what is the cost difference for "real
Louis XIV marble fireplace" as opposed to "imitation"? Why build something to
last 500 years when your children may not even want it?

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sotojuan
One thing that has always puzzled me is the cheap materials thing. My parent's
house, though not a McMansion, is in a neighborhood full of them and made of
the same materials.

It's held up perfectly for ~10 years and plenty of hurricanes (some that
happened while it was in the middle of being built!). What's the problem with
the current materials?

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mikestew
Your mention of hurricanes, and parents who might be safely assumed to be
retired, makes me think Florida. With that big bag of assumptions (throw out
what follows if those are wrong), I'll remind folks that anything built in the
last ten years is going to be very much regulated on how it's built. It'll be
made of reinforced concrete block and the roof will be firmly tied to the rest
of the house. The builder has no say in this. I'm not saying that given the
choice the builder would choose the cheaper route, but a Florida house that
laughs at a hurricane is due to government regulation more than the builder's
choice of materials.

That, and Florida hasn't really had a decent hurricane in the last ten years.

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sotojuan
Not so close but an interesting answer. My parents live in South East Texas
(south East of Houston!) and not retired. I'll admit that the last big
hurricane we had was that I remember was in 2008~ish.

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blhack
I would happily live in any of these houses.

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clock_tower
Is it possible to buy good craftsmanship these days? I'm asking this in all
earnest, not to make a rhetorical point; does anyone know of businesses in the
US today that can build a house that will endure like a 1920s Craftsman?

If so, who are they, and where do they operate -- what businesses should I
contact?

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CapitalistCartr
Absolutely. The key is in the general contractor (GC). One accustomed to doing
better work will know the right subcontractors (subs). For instance, those
that specialize in restoration, remodeling, and repair in historical
districts.

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clock_tower
Thank you!

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codingdave
Even if we grant all these points as correct, not everyone shares the same
aesthetic sense as professional architects. As long as you like your own home,
it really doesn't matter what other people think of it.

And I find the last bit of the article truly scary -- bragging over fan mail
sent to the site about how this type of critique is letting people verbalize
and validate their own instinctive hate for their neighbor's design choices.
Is that really a net positive to our society? To use critique as a mechanism
to feed negativity between neighbors?

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jayess
There are a LOT of people who think they should be able to substitute their
own judgment for other people's when it comes to the home they live in.

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Abundnce10
This is a little off topic but does anyone know of any resources for
architecting/designing your own house. Specifically, I think it'd be
worthwhile to learn from the layouts of other houses. I'd also love to hear
about how people are wiring up their houses (fiber, audio, etc).

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RandomInteger4
How to Design Your Own House: Step 1) Pay an Architect to design your house.

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Abundnce10
I'll definitely do that! I guess I'm just looking for places to get
inspiration from.

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wott
European here. Are there really people who live in those er... things, or are
they only used to shoot porn flicks?

On a more serious note, if they want to display different styles, instead of
packing them together, why don't they build 2 or 3 smaller buildings?

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ktRolster
It's a little harsh. Not everyone can afford a top-quality architect.

And mixing styles (the main criticism of this article) is not always a bad
thing: Chartres Cathedral is considered a masterpiece, despite it's weird
mixed spires.

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CapitalistCartr
She discusses that in Eclecticism. She uses pictures throughout to demonstrate
the difference between mixing well and badly.

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jayess
Don't like it? Then don't buy one.

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OrwellianChild
For those lacking the visual aids to understand what a grandiose home vs. a
McMansion looks like, the blog this is based on has a good visual explainer
here: [http://www.mcmansionhell.com/post/151896249151/the-
mcmansion...](http://www.mcmansionhell.com/post/151896249151/the-mcmansion-
scale-explained)

