

Per Vices (YC W12) Sets Out To Disrupt Wireless Communications - dwynings
http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/30/per-vices/

======
femto
If anyone is interested, I built a vaguely similar thing a few years ago [1].
The major difference is that it's restricted to the 2.4GHz bands, though the
transceivers are modular and can be swapped out for broadband units. It's also
MIMO capable, accepting up to 6 transceivers on a single PCI card. Being a
little dated, the interface is PCI and size/speed of the FPGA is limited.
Software is rudimentary, my ambition being to one day port GNUradio onto it.
I've always intended to continue the development, but, so far, other things
have intervened.

Full design details are released under the GPL and contained in the
downloadable thesis [2].

[1] <http://home.exetel.com.au/dalton/testbed/>

[2]
[http://home.exetel.com.au/dalton/thesis_jd_toplevel_2009_11_...](http://home.exetel.com.au/dalton/thesis_jd_toplevel_2009_11_11_archival_copy.pdf)

~~~
malandrew
I wouldn't be surprised if they offer you a job. You sound like the ideal
first engineering hire.

------
j_s
Software Defined Radio for $11

<http://www.reddit.com/r/RTLSDR>

[http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/03/31/1914217/software...](http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/03/31/1914217/software-
defined-radio-for-11)

"DVB-T sticks based on the Realtek RTL2832U can be used as a cheap SDR, since
the chip allows transferring the raw I/Q samples to the host, which is
officially used for DAB/DAB+/FM demodulation. The possibility of this has been
discovered by the V4L/DVB kernel developer Antti Palosaari."

------
wmf
Their site is a little optimistic for my taste. Awesome company name, though.

"Phi can capture over the air waves, so with the right app, you can watch
cable for free."

Cable != over the air.

"Phi will be able to act as a base station to let you make free calls using
your cell phone."

AFAIK this is illegal in the US and even if it was legal the carriers would
try pretty hard to block it. I'm up for a good disruption as much as the next
HNer, but this sounds more like a long-term aspiration than a product feature.

~~~
bschlinker
Yeah, I was under the impression that it would be illegal also, but apparently
the FCC hasn't concluded whether it should be allowed.

MagicJack was planning to offer similar functionality in the past:

"YMAX [makers of MagicJack] says it doesn’t need permission to use the
carriers’ operating frequencies in the home and that it’s protected under Part
15 of FCC regulation. This stipulation allows a device to operate without a
license if it uses very low power, and doesn’t cause interference."

"In 2007, the CTIA requested the FCC regulate in-home wireless network signal
boosters. The CTIA believes it should be illegal to boost any signal without
the consent of the spectrum licensee. This contentious issue is still being
debated, and YMAX is likely watching very closely for any signs of a
decision."

[http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/magicjack-
cell...](http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/magicjack-cell-phones)

------
heatherpayne
I'm wondering if you have any tips for people who want to apply to YC with a
non-software idea? Or some info as to what they can expect once they get
there? It's got to be a different experience.

~~~
altrus
That's an interesting question. Certainly, a lot of the advice is aimed at
software companies - and it's sometimes hard to figure out where to draw the
line...

For example, the idea of a minimum viable product doesn't really work too well
with Hardware. Neither does shipping fast and iterating - hardware recalls are
expensive.

For us, the best value in YC was the partners. Having smart people to go to
when you're facing problems is probably the most valuable part of YC. A lot of
times, your problems have very little to do with your technology or industry.

~~~
IsaacL
"For example, the idea of a minimum viable product doesn't really work too
well with Hardware."

Actually, it does, if you make your MVP a little more minimal. Put up a sales
page for the product, attract traffic with Google AdWords, and see who clicks
"buy".

You know those infomercial products that required 6-8 weeks for delivery? That
was the time it took to actually get the products manufactured, which didn't
happen until a sufficient quantity of orders had been reached. Tim Ferris has
a bunch of similar examples in 4HWW.

------
ajju
Congrats Guys. Per Vices has all the signs of a product that, like Apple,
starts out as a hobbyist project for hackers and ends up disrupting the world.
The Internet has disrupted TV channels and movie studios, and now the wireless
monopoly is the last bastion that these guys will take down.

------
igorsyl
1\. Can the PCI card transmit in any frequency (up to 4GHz)? Is this allowed
by the FCC?

2\. Wireless protocols are timing sensitive. Can the card load up a program to
process signals? Similar to a kernel in a GPU?

~~~
patrickyeon
Disclaimer: I have no more knowledge than what's up on their page, a lot of
this is professional guesswork.

1\. It most likely can. They are probably hoping to not bother the FCC by
treating it as "test equipment" (that's what Ettus Research does), leaving the
responsibility of compliance with the end-user.

1b. I doubt they're getting as much as a Watt out of that board (personal
estimate would be a peak of 10-50mW, [10-17 dBm]) so in ideal conditions,
significantly less power than a cell phone or wifi signal. Still enough to be
trouble in some bands, and it doesn't change the regulatory situation.

2\. There is an FPGA, so there is a physical possibility. It's not a trivial
thing though, and working with FPGAs is even more remote from what most
programmers are used to than working with GPUs. If I had to guess, the plan
would be to capture/transmit bursts, with processing in between, instead of
real-time signal/protocol shifting.

~~~
igorsyl
Does it look like Per Vices' product is similar to Ettus'? Maybe cost being
the significant difference?

I am not familiar with the specifics of wifi protocols. Is the wifi protocol
fit into the rx/tx burst+processing or RT signal/protocol?

~~~
altrus
Biggest differences between our product, Phi, and the USRP (ettus) are cost
and bus. We use a x4 PCIe, providing much higher transfer bandwidth (8Gbps vs
1Gbps). Additionally, the RF front ends are fully integrated (lowers cost).

We're aiming to have the user manual up by the end of the week, which should
provide much more information.

