
Oracle makes move to kill open source MySQL - siloraptor
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/18/oracle-makes-more-moves-to-kill-open-source-mysql/?grcc=33333Z98ZtrendingZ0Z0Z0Z0Z0&grcc2=a121e3c06bfcc5573019c68937c7183b~1345472977381~fca4fa8af1286d8a77f26033fdeed202~unknown~1345117195375~98~0~0~0~0~0~0~0~9~3~
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darklajid
That's the same company that bundles much needed java security updates with
the opt-out option of installing a weird browser toolbar and setting the
homepage to a crappy service, right?

Seriously, I never cared about that company as long as it was just selling
expensive (but supposedly feature rich?) software to the enterprise, but it
seems the alternatives to Oracle's java and MySQL need some more support,
market- and mindshare.

~~~
quesera
MySQL and Java don't affect me much personally, but I think the way they've
handled Solaris is a real tragedy for the industry.

Larry is the new Bill. I blame Jonathan.

~~~
taligent
What's happening to Solaris ?

It is still open and available for download at <http://opensolaris.org>. It
just isn't being supported by Oracle anymore since they are focused on Oracle
Linux.

~~~
4ad
No, the gate has been closed about two years ago. Solaris is not open source
anymore. The illumos guys forked the last available version of the code and
push it forward independently.

------
spudlyo
This test-case controversy was both discovered and ginned up by Monty and the
MariaDB folks, who have much to gain by the rejection of Oracle's brand of
MySQL and the promotion of MariaDB. While it may be part of some larger and
sinister plan to "kill" open source MySQL as the article suggests, it seems
more likely to me that it was simply a mistake, and one they'll walk back at
some point.

If it is an anti-competitive move, it reminds me of the recent move by RedHat,
who have started shipping their new kernels as one big source tarball, without
patches, which undoubtedly pissed off both Oracle and the CentOS folks.

~~~
jeffdavis
"it seems more likely to me that it was simply a mistake, and one they'll walk
back at some point."

How do you explain removing access to the source repository then? Or the fact
that the documentation is not free to redistribute?

~~~
spudlyo
_How do you explain removing access to the source repository then?_

I can easily explain it, because it never happened. Access to the MySQL source
repository on launchpad is available for anyone to browse. Oracle is
occasionally lazy about updating it, but they've never removed access AFAIK.

 _Or the fact that the documentation is not free to redistribute?_

The documentation has never been free to redistribute, it was that way under
Monty, it was that way under Sun, and it remains that way under Oracle.

------
dj2stein9
As mentioned in the comments see MariaDB (<http://mariadb.org/>), an open
source fork of MySQL from before the Oracle acquisition. Like Hudson, MySQL
will live on.

~~~
meritt
I've been using Percona for a number of years now. Are there any solid
comparisons between Percona and MariaDB?

~~~
spudlyo
MariaDB ships with XtraDB, Percona's modified InnoDB engine. If you're
planning on using InnoDB (which just about everyone is) the differences are
pretty minor.

The big difference is that MariaDB comes with the Aria storage engine, which
is a crash safe alternative to MyISAM.

<http://kb.askmonty.org/en/about-xtradb/>

<http://kb.askmonty.org/en/aria-faq/>

------
james-skemp
For those who try to stay away from TC: "it appears that Oracle is making its
revision tests and histories closed source" sums up the few paragraph link
bait ... :)

~~~
mykhamill
Thanks for that, it is like you read my mind :)

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Sauce1971
I used to enjoy working with Oracle databases, but the horrible pricing and
high need for dba maintenance was always discomforting. Switch for a while to
MSSQL, but then the market for Windows apps disappeared. Have been using mySQL
with very little sort of DB satisfaction. Now I don't know why anyone would
not choose PostgreSQL for almost any project. Oracle is a bad apple, making
money with methods aking to extortion.

~~~
crag
I still wonder why SQLite isn't used more. Granted for busy large
sites/applications SQLite is the wrong tool. But most sites using MySQL are
small.

~~~
jeffdavis
Disclaimer: It's been a while since I tried to use SQLite for anything.

I've never really felt that it was actually easier to use than a client/server
DBMS. I can imagine that it's good for some kinds of embedded applications,
but for normal web applications I don't see any improvement in usability.
Juggling files is not any easier than setting up a connection.

And there were always annoyances associated with the simplicity. All those
"complex features" in a real DBMS turn out to be useful sooner than you think
(and I don't mean "once in production" I mean while still in development).
Even the simplest applications can usually benefit from good support for dates
and times.

I think SQLite just drew the line in the wrong place for most applications
(although it may serve a niche quite well). Oversimplification requires the
developer to reinvent, which results in a much more complex system overall (or
one that at least requires more work to develop and maintain). Key/value
stores have similar problems for general-purpose application development.

~~~
crag
1\. With the PDO (or any ORM) setting up and "using" SQLite is as easy as any
other database.

2\. There are several really nice front-ends to SQlite, along with the
phpmyadmin like app for SQlite. Like MySQL you'll never have to use the
command line (for most operations).

3\. SQLite is now included with just about every scripting language (except
MS' langs - where it's just a matter of downloading the app and an ODBC
driver).

4\. "Because it requires no configuration and stores information in ordinary
disk files, SQLite is a popular choice as the database to back small to
medium-sized websites." - sqlite.com

 _Simple websites_. Would I run this site on SQLite? Of course not. Any
shopping site with a million users? No. But a personal blog? Yes. A company
website used for marketing and information (and maybe a few Contact US pages)?
Yes.

There are millions of sites where using MySQl is over-kill. But everyone uses
it because, like PHP, it's always there.

5\. SQlite uses SQL. Very few commands aren't available.. like you can't write
to a View. But I think that's true in MySQl too. There's a small list on
sqlite.com. It even has transactions.

Simply put, if you don't require writing to the db from multiple sources (and
lets face it, 80% of the sites out there don't.); running your app or site on
sqlite is fine.

~~~
jeffdavis
"setting up and "using" SQLite is as easy as any other database"

That's exactly the problem. If it's _easier_ , then maybe I'll use it. If it's
just as easy, but does less, I have no reason to bother using it, for two
reasons:

1\. There is non-zero risk that I will need one of the other features.

2\. Even if I don't, why would I want to spend time learning something if it
isn't better (at something) than what I already know how to use?

I haven't seen any compelling reason to use SQLite outside of the mobile or
embedded space.

"over-kill"

What do you mean by that, and why is it bad?

~~~
crag
_""over-kill"

What do you mean by that, and why is it bad?"_

It's not. I'm just pointing out that there are alternatives to MySQL. And for
small sites/apps that don't require something like Postgres; that can be
SQLite.

Frankly I miss the days when an easy to install and use database was available
to the masses. Remember Paradox, dBase and Foxpro? Sure all those database
where powerful (xBase, for example) and used to develop complex applications.
But they were _also_ used for simple applications.

I would love to see something equivalent to those online. Oh wait, there is;
SQLite.

------
mtgx
It seems Oracle is on a trend to kill everything open source they've acquired
from Sun. Java seems to be the only one left, and it would've happened already
if they won the trial with Google, but I'm sure they'll do something equally
dumb in the future to kill finally Java, too.

~~~
crag
There are other open source projects at Oracle that are still "alive". Like
Netbeans.

~~~
dexterchief
Why the quotes around "alive"? What has been happening with the Netbeans
project?

~~~
crag
They've dropped ruby. But other then that, nothing really. I Love (and use)
Netbeans. I was just emphasizing that they are still alive.

But really I think the only thing saving Netbeans' butt is Java.

------
SoapSeller
See previous submissions:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4400797>
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4397124>

------
fredsanford
Time to brush up on Postgres or Firebird.

Let Oracle shoot off all their feet.

~~~
Nogwater
I don't know anything about Firebird. Is it really a good replacement for
MySQL?

~~~
fredsanford
I found it to be pretty solid and fast when I last used it, which was right
after Borland Open-Sourced it. It was forked from Interbase.

~~~
derpmeister
Postgres is developing a lot quicker then Firebird. Also, management and
replication solutions for Postgres are far more advanced. But what matters
most (for me) is documentation. I can find everything I need to know right
here:

[http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/interactive/sql-
commands....](http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/interactive/sql-
commands.html)

------
grandalf
Let's hope someone forks it and teaches Oracle a lesson.

~~~
ddon
MariaDB is already a fork of MySQL, and many developers from MySQL now
developing MariaDB.

~~~
fatbird
Isn't MariaDB the fork by Monty, the original developer of MySQL who sold it
to Sun in the first place, setting off multiple rounds of cashing out?

~~~
ksherlock
MySQL AB also required copyright assignment for all contributions, which made
it possible for MySQL AB, Sun and now Oracle to have full copyright over it.
MySQL AB wasn't above throwing around GPL FUD to scare people into paying for
a non-GPL license.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
LibreSQL, where are you? :(

~~~
skymt
Isn't that what MariaDB is for?

~~~
masklinn
MariaDB is by Monty, creator of MySQL who previously sold-then-forked it. So
there's no guarantee the same thing won't happen to it (quite the opposite
really).

~~~
fhars
He does no longer own the exclusive rights to the code (they are Oracle's now)
and so can only publish under the GPL.

------
zeruch
...and in the process opens the floodgates of possibilities for Drizzle,
MariaDB, PostgreSQL, and everyone else. Oracle has already shown fairly
conclusively it can do little else but mismanage its acquired Sun assets.

------
mikenereson
Isn't saying that MySQL and Java doesn't affect you like saying that Linux
doesn't affect you because you use Windows?

These open technologies make the world turn.

------
jorisw
TC;DR.

------
ucee054
Don't anthropomorphize Larry Ellison

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc#t=39m25s>

------
accarrino
the line between what Oracle considers open and closed get fuzzier all the
time. makes being a developer a pain in the ass.

~~~
luriel
No, it is easy: avoid anything touched by Oracle like the plague.

~~~
mbreese
Unfortunately, that includes hardware too... A friend had 3 out of 13 Oracle
servers die with random memory errors (persistent). Of course, if they had a
10K+ service contract they'd be happy to help.

~~~
lttlrck
How much did it cost to replace those 3 servers? >10K I bet...

~~~
derpmeister
This reeks of extortion. Let's sell the rejects to the customers without a
support contract. That'll teach 'em.

