

Ask HN: How to go from zero to livable wage - greglockwood

Hey everyone, I am trying to figure out this big thing we call life, and I could use some advice, and I know a lot of people here are very smart, so I figured this would be worth a shot.<p>I graduated from a state university in May of 2010, with a B.S. that isn't super great but it's not Liberal Arts either (Geography). I didn't take college very serious, so it took me five years to graduate, and I only graduated with a 2.1, meaning I leave my GPA off of my resume.<p>I only held one part-time job while I was in college, and it wasn't in my degree field, just a regular, minimum-wage job college students get for a little extra money.<p>When I graduated from college, I tried a series of alternative solutions to getting a job. A few weeks after graduating, I went on a two-month road trip of the entire contiguous US (during which I also spent my entire personal savings), hoping to advance a book deal when I got through. After I finished the road trip, I queried literary agents for a few months, I decided that it was more of a long-term project, and focused on other things. I applied to YC for W'11, and didn't get in. When January hit, I decided to quit trying to find job alternatives and start looking for a real job. I applied to all the entry-level positions I could find in my degree field, and to various tech (video game) companies for a community manager/social media strategist role, as I was pretty heavily involved in the video game blogging scene in college, and haven't gotten replies in any direction.<p>There aren't a ton of entry-level positions in my degree field, on the field's biggest job board there are probably only 3-4 entry-level positions posted a week.<p>When I applied for YC, I started to learn the basics of HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, and Javascript, got interested in it, and I'd like to learn to be a front-end web dev, but I figure the amount of time it would take me to learn enough to be hirable would be at least 6 months, and I really need something more immediate. In hindsight, I really wished I had become interested in programming in college.<p>I'm not homeless or starving, I live with my family, which I'm thankful to have, but student loan payments started last month, and while I can pay them (it's not that much per month), that's absolutely all I can afford. My youngest brother is going to college in August, which means in August my family is up and moving somewhere else (they don't know where yet), and I'd rather be moved out by then.<p>Basically, I really don't know what to do at this point. I'm not lazy, I'm relatively smart, and I have plenty of motivation, I think just didn't take "the real world" seriously enough.<p>To clarify, I am not asking for handouts or sympathy. I know that I am 100% responsible for my low GPA, my decision to not look for a job until recently, and everything else in my life. I just thought that a query of the HN community could yield some ideas that I hadn't thought of. Thanks.
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malux85
I was in a similar situation to yourself, and all I can say is work your a55
off.

I bummed out of university after 6 months after getting ill. I had a student
debt of 10,000 and nothing to show for it. I couldn't get a job in I.T.
without a degree, so I decided to work hard

I got a job in a local stationery store. I took all of the extra hours I
could, and I studied PHP and HTML+CSS in my spare time, programming in the
evenings and weekends, building up on online portfolio. There was ZERO
downtime, and I mean zero. When I was not sleeping, I was working, either at
the stationery store, or learning PHP and doing contact work. You say 'I'm not
lazy', so now is the time to prove it buster.

I started with a 10,000 debt and no degree in Christchurch New Zealand ... 6
years later I am now a senior PHP developer in a media company in London, with
no student debt and am on a pretty comfortable wage. I still work hard (7 days
a week) and started my own company 2 months ago.

\- Work and study and you'll be rewarded. \- It wont happen overnight \- You
need to be able to take a kick in the balls and get up again \- WORK HARD

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bartonfink
Hey, Greg -

I wound up in a similar situation as you after college a while ago, although
mine wasn't exactly the same. What you need to recognize, and your last
paragraph is a good sign of this, is that you have bigger fish to fry than
'doing what you want'. 'Doing what you want' is important, but as I read your
activities - got a Geography degree, road tripped the US, tried to get a book
deal, applying to YC as a front-end web designer, trying to work in the gaming
industry - I don't see a clear picture of 'what you want'. I see a lot of
energy and ideas, but you remind me a bit of Dean Moriarity from On the Road -
all sail and no compass, so to speak.

That aside, I also think you have more to worry about than 'doing what you
want'. You've got student loans to deal with now, as well as an uncertain
living situation with your parents. I think those take precedence over
figuring out what you want to do with your life. You need to figure out how to
get regular money to take steps towards self-sufficiency. A huge plus would be
to build something like a 'career' while doing that - because that will make
your next steps towards the things I listed above easier.

What I'd suggest is that you look into teaching. At least in the US, there are
numerous programs to get new teachers into schools.I don't know when they take
applicants, but I would imagine now is a good time to look since it's February
and you've got time before next school year. Some pay for a masters in
education, which would defer your student loans (you're back in an educational
program), but they will definitely give you a salary and let you regroup while
you figure out your next move. Teachers also regularly leave education after a
few years, so you won't stand out if you do get the urge to chase something
else once you're back on your feet. Teaching can give you a creative outlet,
which you might enjoy, and it definitely beats living at home with your
parents or couch surfing while you wait for your shift at Subway. I'd give
this a serious look if I were you.

My e-mail address should be visible in my profile - feel free to shoot me an
e-mail if you have ?'s or want to chat more. Like I said, I went through
something similar and came out pretty well, so I think I can offer pertinent
advice.

Best of luck!

~~~
greglockwood
Thanks. :) Although from graduation til about December it was about what I
wanted, I have definitely realized at this point that there are bigger
priorities in life, and I am working on being responsible for those
priorities.

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coryl
Here's how I hustled my way into an internship with a hot analytics startup
(as a non-technical, learning PHP like you. Business degree, almost 2 years
after graduating). I emailed the co-founder and told him about my interest in
the industry and that I'd be interested in working for free. That was enough
to get a skype chat, and a meeting down at the office. Granted, that while I
had no work experience, I had co-founded a short list of cool projects with my
friend and programming partner, of which had tons of coverage and users. Even
so, I was actually rejected until they had a change of fortune and began on a
growth spree. I started last month as a marketing intern and I'm learning tons
and tons of good stuff that I otherwise would have never come across (one of
the benefits of working with smarter, more networked, more resourceful people
than you). I only get paid $2k/month, but I get free breakfast everyday and
some other perks.

I figure that even if I can't get a job or stay with this company, I can
parlay this internship into another one until I'm where I'd like to be.

So for you:

1) Build interesting projects which you can learn from. Or join someone's
project. Do something crazy, get press, get users, have something concrete to
show for it.

2) Hustle startups in industries that interest you. Not sure if working for
free is actually a good idea, but at the right places, what you learn can be
very worthwhile.

Gooood luck!

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nolite
If you want to program, try applying for internships. Forget about jobs in
your degree field.. no one does that. Expand your horizons

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ashraful
Can you please email me at inlith(at)gmail(dot)com Perhaps, I could help you
out a bit.

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noodle
you have an idea for YC? build it yourself. that'll build your skills enough
to maybe get yourself a job later on, and you'll have a nice website to use as
a portfolio project.

