
New Zealand relied on science and empathy - colinprince
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52344299
======
ravenstine
I see nothing in this article that suggests that New Zealand was particularly
scientific in their response in contrast with other countries. This idea comes
from someone's viewpoint of NZ's relationship with the scientific community,
but that doesn't really demonstrate that their leaders responded in line with
whatever scientific evidence there is.

This comes of as yet another "I f __*ing love science " type news story.

~~~
notahacker
Not sure they were massively more empathetic either. The reality is that
because it's an isolated island whose countrymen aren't regularly jetting back
and forth it had relatively few cases in mid March and found it completely
practical to quarantine everybody who had been overseas for 14 days at that
point. Fiji's doing pretty well apart from the tourist industry too, and I'm
not sure their government is also outstandingly scientific or empathetic.

Certainly, some countries have done much more counterproductive things than NZ
and some countries would have had better capacity to respond if they listened
to epidemiologists more. But for all the UK government has legitimately been
criticised for being slow to respond and poor at communicating, it went into
lockdown on exactly the same day as NZ. It just likely had at least two or
three orders of magnitude more cases at the time.

~~~
timClicks
There are a few facts missing from your first paragraph.

It might look like an "isolated island whose countrymen aren't regularly
jetting back" from the outside, but New Zealand is much more connected than
that. Inbound, international students, migrant workers (mainly horticulture)
and tourists are huge. Outbound, LAX is only a single flight.

The quarantine was only imposed fairly recently. Until late March IIRC, self-
isolation was require because it would have been impossible to quarantine
~100k arrivals for 2 weeks.

~~~
notahacker
Sure, before they extended quarantine to everyone and barred all foreign
nationals from entering, people who exhibited no symptoms and could
demonstrate a 'viable self-isolation plan' were allowed to voluntarily
quarantine themselves instead of being put into government approved
facilities. That's still something which is considerably easier to impose in
New Zealand after only six known cases of a disease than in Western Europe,
where people take _day trips_ or even commute to other countries. Sure, NZ
isn't [usually] cut off from the outside world, but it isn't a transit hub,
somewhere you expect to visit to conclude a business deal or watch the away
leg of a football match or a stop on a busy itinerary either.

For related reasons NZ only had six known cases by mid March when they imposed
that restriction. Italy had 21k cases and 1400 deaths at that point, with a
few hundred more dying every day from that point onwards.

------
glofish
A surviorship bias at its finest. There are so many aspects of this disease we
don't understand, trumpeting various accomplishments on incomplete data helps
no one. It is a small, isolated island nation, neither the measures taken nor
the expected outcomes of same measures are representative for larger
societies.

If anything Germany is far better case on how to manage an outbreak than New
Zealand.

------
notacoward
41 years + 1 day ago, my mother and I returned to the US from New Zealand.
Every time I see a story like this, I wonder if that was really such a great
idea. Good for them. I'd be pleased and proud to have Jacinda Ardern leading
my country.

~~~
cflewis
I lived there for a couple years about a decade ago. I left because the job
opportunities for highly-qualified software engineers in NZ was basically
zero. The only real option presented for Kiwis was to move to Sydney.

It is very frustrating to hear multinationals opening offices in Sydney and
saying "New Zealand people can work there too, it's all the same" when it's
not. American companies open Canadian offices all the time because the
cultures are different. Australia and New Zealand have the same relationship:
same language, different cultures.

It grinds my gears to this day because I would love to return for good, but I
can't/won't give up my career, and I don't really want to move to Sydney. I
want to move to New Zealand.

~~~
edsrzf
I live in Auckland and the tech scene has really been booming in the last year
or two. Obviously it's no SF bay area, and there are now companies struggling
in the current economic conditions, but it may be worth another look in, say,
a year.

~~~
y-c-o-m-b
Is there still a shortage of qualified tech workers and do you know if they
make exceptions for those that don't meet the required amount of points for
immigration? I'm short by 5 points because I don't have a degree (but I have
well over a decade of experience in software development).

EDIT: N/M looks like I can get in easily if I'm offered a job by an NZ
employer listed as an "absolute skill shortage", so I guess I answered my own
question. I'm using this tool for anyone curious:
[https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-
for-...](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-
visa/tools-and-information/tools/points-indicator-smc-28aug)

~~~
dzhiurgis
Those are usually filled by cheap workers who can just barely copy paste code
and get it to compile...

------
coder1001
Amazing Prime Minister leading the country through the 15th of March terrorist
attack, the aftermath, and then this Covid-19 crises!

Second female leader to have a baby while in office!

All that in less than 3 years being elected at a young age. Just wow!

~~~
cgh
Yes, she must surely rank at the top of the heap of western leaders. Here in
British Columbia, we have very roughly the same population but whereas NZ has
had twelve deaths because Ardern took early and decisive action based on the
science, we've had 86 deaths because of hand-wringing and indecision.

~~~
ska
I think that is being a bit harsh on BC - it is looking pretty good compared
to basically all the rest of North America; not perfect, but acted sensibly
for the most part.

~~~
cgh
Yes, but considering eg the shitshow down south or in Quebec, that is damning
it with faint praise. The fact remains that BC has seven times the deaths of
New Zealand.

One thing BC has in its favour is a reasonably common-sense population that
more or less understands the gravity of the situation, particularly the
Chinese community. People have been good with social distancing and so forth.
But BC Parks should have closed sooner, Bonnie Henry should not have been
encouraging people to "continue to go to Whistler", and so forth.

~~~
ska
I disagree. Globally, it's pretty solidly in the "did sensible things, had
better results" column along with NZ.

Certainly not perfect, of course.

------
Mikeb85
The fact it's an isolated island with a small population and it's their summer
no doubt helps too...

~~~
robocat
“Tourism is New Zealand's largest export industry in terms of foreign exchange
earnings. It directly employs one in eight New Zealanders.“

NZ is highly connected, and it gets a significant number of tourists from
China. Summer is the high season for tourism.

So if anything, NZ should be hit harder than many less connected
states/countries.

~~~
Mikeb85
Still easier to seal the border when you're an island.

And summer matters because most scientists think hot weather slows the virus'
ability to spread.

~~~
robocat
Sure, but the border was sealed _after_ 100s of thousands of tourists, and
hundreds of infected cases arriving from overseas. This was before we had any
ability to test for the virus. Returning NZers were asked to self-quarantine
for two weeks, and I’m guessing the majority did.

NZ has temperate weather - it is _not_ a hot country:
[https://weatherspark.com/m/144837/3/Average-Weather-in-
March...](https://weatherspark.com/m/144837/3/Average-Weather-in-March-in-
Christchurch-New-Zealand)

In March in Christchurch (approx 1/10th NZ population) the temperature would
be called “cool”. I think you are rationalising.

------
kolikotime
New Zealand also is a relatively isolated warm island nation with far less
international travel to it than literally the rest of the Western World. So
please excuse me with all of the tribute to it for its performance.

~~~
renewiltord
Interesting. Lets run a quick comparison between Louisiana and New Zealand.

Temperature today: Auckland peaks at 19 C, New Orleans at 25 C

Population: NZ 4.8 million, Lousiana 4.7 million

Density: NZ 18 / sq. km, Lousiana 34 / sq. km

COVID cases (deaths): NZ 1445 (13) , Lousiana 24523 (1328)

~~~
scottLobster
Pretty disingenuous comparison. You leave out:

Exposure to cross-border travel:

Louisiana: Home to one of the largest commercial shipping ports in the world,
serving as an import/export hub for the largest national economy in the world.
Has extensive land borders with said nation and large amounts of interstate
travel daily.

New Zealand: Has a small export market largely focused on agriculture and a
small tourism market. Is an island nation over 1300 miles away from the
nearest other significant economy. All movement in/out of the nation has to go
through tightly controlled ports or airports.

~~~
renewiltord
I don't understand why HN users always jump into these things like it's a cage
fight. The right way for you to respond is to help us collectively arrive at
truth (which your qualitative statement aids mildly in) and leave out all the
parts that claim bad faith from your fellow users. Jesus Christ, I even
included density which points the opposite way. Now because I don't have a
preconceived notion of which direction I want the results to show why NZ is
performing better, I can conclude that the result is either:

* The factors described are washed out by the other factors

* These factors don't have a significant impact

* It isn't any of these that determines difference in outcome between NZ and others but action taken

No wonder you guys hate social networks like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
if you run around calling everyone insincere at the first sign of the mildest
degree of disagreement.

------
jessaustin
Small nations are easier to govern in reasonable and just fashion than large
nations. Therefore, nations should be small rather than large.

------
bioinformatics
Did they rely on geography too?

