
Ask HN: Problem of social unrest and shutting down Internet - jor-el
TL;DR: Internet is considered a fundamental right in modern times, but it is also a reason to lead to social unrest because of misinformation being spread on it. What can be a solution to this problem? Is it justified to shutdown internet <i>in times of social unrest</i>?<p>Today I came across a very disturbing news of health workers being attacked while they visited a suspected Covid-19 infected patients house in India (and many other countries). The cause of attack has been attributed to misinformation being spread on a Whatsapp group. This news is not a one off incidence of Internet services leading to a social unrest.<p>As a solution, often Indian government lean to shutdown the internet in such places during riots, or any kind of social unrest. Indian government did the same in Kashmir recently as a per-emptive measure in 2019. This was criticized and our Supreme court went on to say Internet is a fundamental right.<p>So here lies my dilemma. On one hand Internet - which of course includes Facebook, Insta, whatsapp, Signal etc services - is very important and considered as a fundamental right, but it is also causing harm to the society. How can such problem be solved, which from my vantage point is becoming more frequent? Can it be justified to shutdown internet or censor internet <i>during crisis</i>? If not, then how to tackle this problem from a governance point of view when you know the cause from where the
problem is arising.<p>I am giving examples from India, but this problem is becoming very global according to me, and would like to hear your views from a global perspective, is there some country handling this in a better way? And I humbly request, please do not indulge in any political arguments.<p>[1] https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.news18.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;india&#x2F;four-arrested-in-indore-for-attacking-spitting-on-health-officials-during-covid-19-contact-tracing-2561659.html  (Whatsapp part mentioned towards the end of article)
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mifreewil
EDIT: Notice I find OP's line of thinking "dangerous". My reaction is not to
appeal to any authority and have anyone censor, ban, or de-platform them. I
combat it with speech.

I see this line of thinking extremely dangerous and misguided.

> is very important... but it is also causing harm to the society

Let me stop you right there. You can literally make this case about every noun
ever. History is littered with a long list of do-gooders that tried to ban
books, alcohol, some sort of human sexuality, gambling, and on and on. I
believe this is roughly where the saying "The path to hell is paved with good
intentions" comes from.

In the United States, we believe in freedom. Freedom has the same properties
that can lead to good or bad outcomes. People can choose good or bad. They can
choose the right political candidate or the wrong candidate. They can believe
what they want to believe. They can choose different paths that may lead to
prosperity or to poverty.

Censorship or banning things mostly don't work and banning it just because it
can cause harm is not defensible. Censorship, especially, creates a large
amount of harm itself by reducing trust in the government. Reminds me when I
was a teenager and I asked for a hacking book for Christmas. My relative
refused to get it for me because of the harm it could do. My response was that
knowledge was neither good nor bad. It's what you decide to do with it. My
argument was that that same knowledge of computer hacking, while can be used
for bad or evil, can also be used for good or defense against those wishing to
do harmful things.

In the United States we have experience with alcohol and other drug
prohibition, and it's been an absolute disaster. And the thinking about that
is the same alarming attitude that is displayed here regarding free speech.

The reason the United States has a 1st Amendment that prevents the government
from restricting speech is because it's incredibly dangerous to allow anyone
or any group to decide what speech is allowed. It may start out with good
intentions, but is far too dangerous to even allow the beginnings of it to
exist.

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pcunite
>> causing harm to the society

This will continue in this life. If you give all power to government, then
they will cause the harm. If you give all power to the public sector, they
will cause the harm. A balance is required between the two and that based on
agreement.

To the issue you bring up, specifically. Become a trusted source of
information that the public sector can rely on. Trust, once lost, becomes
difficult to re-obtain.

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powerapple
I have been thinking about the same problem. Apparently the damage of
misinformation is done once it is out, apparently it can not be reversed. Then
I come up with an idea: why don't we fight misinformation with misinformation.
The only thing someone who believe in misinformation can only be
misinformation.

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codegeek
You are confused between "internet" and "social media". Should we shut down
internet ? hell no. Right now, my business would literally die if we shut down
the internet because that is the only thing that keeps us going. Do I care
about social media ? Not so much. SOme of it is important, some of it is cool
and most of it is downright nasty. I particularly wouldn't care too much if
the likes of FB/Twitter went down for a short period but again, some people
also make money from those platforms and possibly have a livelihood tied to
them (marketers ?)

Kill the message, not the messenger. If Social media is easy to mis-spread
information, teach people how to use it better.

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gumby
I think it's still quite feasible to shut down Internet access in some regions
-- look at Kashmir. However, there electricity and water are still provided
because almost nothing can function without those.

If the internet is made indespensible, as water and electricity are
considered, then access cannot be shut off.

But even where IPs are being passed around, it has been possible for some
governments like Turkey's and China's to block access to certain sites,
especially if they have architected their communications topology to support
that (e.g. having few transport links outside their country).

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ACosmicDust
IMO, it is better to educate the society not to trust the forwards people
randomly send them. In fact, there should be consequences for the people who
start the spread.

Blocking the internet is out right foolish and harmful.

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keenmaster
The solution is not technological. It is social. We should not cynically
dismiss the average person’s capacity for rationality. Through sustained
effort, we can produce a society where people penalize provocative, sectarian
memes and reward scientific, rational, progressive efforts.

If that seems quaint, consider the alternative. The internet gives nuclear-
scale ammunition to fear mongerers and foreign agents. Scientific nation
building, moderated by democratic humanitarianism, is a necessity not a
fantasy in this day and age.

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gtirloni
Do you shutdown electricity/water during riots? Food for thought.

~~~
jor-el
Does electricity/water spread misinformation over it?

~~~
gtirloni
Not sure about water but electricity, sure. My PC is plugged to the wall
socket.

~~~
jor-el
And my PC is using water for cooling it. I am thinking on your points now :)

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leetcrew
shutting down the internet entirely would be an unmitigated disaster. the
internet is my only source of information from the outside world, since I have
no TV or radio in my apartment. since monday, it has been illegal for me to go
outside unless it's a short walk for exercise or a trip to the grocery store.
if I didn't have access to the internet, I would have no way of knowing this.

a slightly more reasonable alternative would be for the government to censor
misinformation during the crisis. this raises the usual questions: what will
be censored? at what level will it be decided? I certainly do not trust the
trump administration to curate my news.

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edmundsauto
The spread of true information is much more powerful and prevalent than
misinformation.

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zzo38computer
Internet and other forms of communications should not be shut down or
censored.

But if there is bad information on there, then the government and/or anyone
else who has good information should add the good informations too.

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deft
This implies there's not only an arbiter of what misinformation is and is not
in all cases, but that the arbiter is your government / local authority over
the internet.

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acd
Solution volunteer to quit social media. Including these messengers.

Call friends instead

