
Has Japan designed the world's best bike shed? - chaostheory
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/green-living-blog/2009/nov/05/japan-best-bike-shed
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rms
There is no way the world's best bike shed could have _that_ color.

~~~
Barnabas
Ha, read up on <http://bikeshed.com/> if you don't get this joke.

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jac_no_k
No. Not the world's best bike shed, for some people.

These garages hold the bicycle in place by the wheels. Since the bicycle can
not stand upright, the bike leans. This puts pressure on the spoke. I have a
heavy electric assist bicycle with bendy normal spokes. I didn't realize this
until after I parked in these garages and out came my now wobbly tired
bicycle. :(

I can't imagine being able to put road racing bicycles in these things either.
Also the small wheeled city bicycles are becoming popular in Tokyo and these
too would not be compatible.

So this garage would service the majority utility bicycles but would piss off
the enthusiasts. Sigh. I have no solution.

~~~
dstorrs
Wouldn't this be a simple incremental improvement--hold it by the seat post,
for example? Every bike has one of those, and they are pretty much in the same
place. You'd also need a pair of 'arms' to keep the front wheel from falling
to the side, but they would only need to provide guidance, not support.

~~~
jac_no_k
Hanging the bike by the seat post or better yet, any part of the frame would
be great. The front wheel could be secured using a Velcro strap. With bicycle
floating, maybe a better oppurtunity for higher density.

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lupin_sansei
They also have those for cars in Japan. You drive your car into what looks
like a lift/elevator and they then move it up a multistory building. You can
get your car back later by typing in the position it's stored at.

[http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2009...](http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2009/03/car_elevator_parking-333x443.jpg)

or

[http://misspentlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/car-
park....](http://misspentlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/car-park.jpg)

~~~
nimbix
Similar systems are also used a car factories to store finished cars. This is
how it looks like at Volkswagen:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Autoturm_von_Innen.jpg>

~~~
lupin_sansei
Very cool.

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pqs
Since when Japan is a designer? Japan designs nothing, japanese people do. It
would be better to credit the creator of the thing instead of his country.
Would'nt it?

~~~
nandemo
It's just a metonymy, like "Wall Street", "Silicon Valley", etc. A bit
stretched, maybe, but it's not misleading so who cares?

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ramidarigaz
It seems like the technology could be improved upon drastically. From what I
saw in the video, the storage density was pretty low. Bikes are hard to store,
though.

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10ren
You have to have a _serious_ bicycle problem before you can justify this level
of investment.

It probably works pretty well, since there's similar car-parking technology
(exception: see jac_no_k's experience).

But I'm reminded of France's expensive investment in public bicycle rentals
($3500 each!!) which is not going perfectly:
[http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/velib-bike-
sharing-t...](http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/velib-bike-sharing-
thieves-vandals.php)

~~~
jac_no_k
It is a problem in the metro areas of Tokyo. The utility bicycles are
unsightly and does block the sidewalk and entrances at times. I wish I had a
photo handy to show what it's like near the stations. Think 100 feet of parked
bicycles on the sidewalk and no way to navigate through.

There's a very large population of bicyclists in Tokyo. Keep in mind for
people living in the city, the bicycle is a utility, not something ridden for
sport or enjoyment. I do however enjoy passing cars on the bicycle and
instigating races from bicycle road racers during my commute.

~~~
jrockway
_Keep in mind for people living in the city, the bicycle is a utility, not
something ridden for sport or enjoyment. I do however enjoy passing cars on
the bicycle and instigating races from bicycle road racers during my commute._

Your second sentence contradicts your first. How do you encounter road racers
if the bicycle is "not something ridden for sport or enjoyment".

I live in a city and it is all three for me. All my trips to the grocery store
are on bike, but I also enjoy the occasional leisurely ride to nowhere, and a
regular "sport" ride.

But I do agree that most people don't think of a bike as a tool, they think of
it as a toy. I think of cars like that, though, so I guess it is just a matter
of perspective and experience.

~~~
nandemo
_How do you encounter road racers if the bicycle is "not something ridden for
sport or enjoyment"._

Road racers are a very small minority of the cycling population in Tokyo.
However, almost everyone (non road racers) rides on the sidewalk. On the
street there are relatively more road racers and hybrids.

~~~
jrockway
Yeah, I have noticed that. Is there some rule against riding bicycles on the
road in Tokyo, or do people just prefer the sidewalk. (It is illegal to ride
on the sidewalk in Chicago, for example, but people do it anyway for some
reason.)

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patio11
This is an adaptation which makes a lot of sense in a few areas in Japan
because footprint is so expensive that volume is cheap by comparison.

In my home town, it is much more economical to just buy three giant expanses
of land by the train station (even though it is the most pricey real estate in
town) and let people park their bikes there.

~~~
tomjen2
I don't know your home town, but is the train station the only place a lot of
people would want to store their bikes?

Because at least where I live the center of the city is packed with bikes
during the warm part of the year and some of the places have four times as
many bikes as there are spaces in the bike rack.

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BrettGlass
Brett Glass here.... Frankly, I am not that surprised by the Japanese bike
storage system (it's not that much different than the ones used by dry
cleaners!) but am truly amazed that Poul-Henning's ancient message is still
being circulated. Being flamed by PHK appears to be somewhat of a rite of
passage in the FreeBSD community, by the way, so at the time I saw his remark
as a backhanded compliment.

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tybris
Too much trouble. I prefer
<http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/16892414.jpg> with a heavy chain.

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jonah
What I was impressed with were the bike ramp and escalator alongside the
stairs. They are such simple and elegant solutions to the bikes-and-stairs
problem. Dig it.

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ErrantX
_your bike becomes theft-proof_

No. It just means your bike thieves need to be more technically astute.
(nothing can be completely secure)

~~~
crystalis
You seem completely secure in your quibbling.

~~~
ErrantX
Im confused :) It was just a comment that sprung out at me

The fact remains the bikes are only as secure as the system used to storing
them :) no reason hacks wont spring up. I was surprised no one else here
commented on it.

(no need to be vicious)

~~~
crystalis
I disavow myself of any unintended vicioun, I simply wished to point out that
'nothing is completely secure' is a bit of an irrelevant nitpick.

:)

~~~
ErrantX
Heh, yeh sorry - a comouter was aggravating me and I took it out here.

It might be nit picking... but it's worth pointing out. It's like marketing a
hack-proof computer; there would be an outcry :) (and rightly too).

But mostly it was just a throw away observation ;)

~~~
nandemo
In Japan, it's as good as theft-proof.

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ivenkys
Brilliant ,technology to actually solve a "real" problem, we could do with one
of those in high-density Cities like London.

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raheemm
Those stairs that allow you to roll your bike is very useful and creative too.

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gonzo
Bike shedding?

Where is Brett Glass when you need him?

[http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=506636+517178+/u...](http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=506636+517178+/usr/local/www/db/text/1999/freebsd-
hackers/19991003.freebsd-hackers)

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jamesbressi
OK, does anyone get reminded of Minority Report when watching how the bikes
get stored after entering the door?

Maybe my memory of Minority Report is rusty, but it reminded me of how people
were stored after being frozen.

Pretty cool.

~~~
wmeredith
This is also how cars were stored in the Will Smith iRobot movie.

Oh yeah, and there's a real one managed by Unitronics Hoboken New Jersey. It's
notorious for breakdowns:
[http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2009/05/another_dropp...](http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2009/05/another_dropped_car_at_hoboken.html)

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giardini
Is it safe? What if you get caught in the bike or the machinery while it's
carting the bike off? One mangled customer would put them out of business.

And what happens when they lose power or their computer malfunctions?

~~~
pavs
Is fork safe? What if you poke your eyes while eating?

I don't think Japan has the culture where the customer's stupidity will lead
to either them getting sued or everyone else getting scared to death because
of constant media circle-jerking on a single accident/event.

I am not from Japan, so I could be wrong.

~~~
giardini
Millions of our non-ancestors stuck themselves in the eye with a sharp stick
(or analogous operation). We have literally _evolved_ to avoid poking our eyes
with a fork while eating! We have eyelid closure reflexes, withdrawal
reflexes, avoidance reflexes: the system is as redundant as hell and all to
protect your vision so you can pass your genes along. Those systems are always
alert, even when you sit down to eat with a fork.

But an unattended machine that picks up bicycles and stores them is likely
_not_ something that our genes will so easily protect us from. Of course our
reflexes will do the best they can but one only need look at the history of
man-machine accidents, indeed, to look around at the maimed among us to see
what usually happens.

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_ck_
This is fantastic.

However can you even imagine a "too many bikes" problem in the USA? My town
has many bike lanes but bikes have disappeared from even the college campus at
an alarming rate as students come in as freshmen with daddy's SUV instead.

~~~
nandemo
Grass is always greener...

There are lots of bikes but streets are narrow and bike lanes are nowhere to
be found (I was amazed when I visited Amsterdam)

Most people ride on the sidewalk; some ride on the street but on the wrong
side (contrary to the traffic!).

Most drivers don't seem to be aware of bikes. For instance, you have to take a
lot of care of drivers coming from the opposite direction and turning (on
their) right in front of you.

Also, most Japanese university students don't own cars and would probably envy
you Americans. :-)

~~~
mrdodge
My favorite part about Amsterdam (and most of Europe for that matter) is that
no one wears a helmet.

