
iPad Pro - madmax108
https://www.apple.com/ipad/
======
dyarosla
What's new about this is that Apple is __FINALLY __listening to its power iPad
users!

Apple introduced a Files app that essentially works like the Finder app on
Mac. Moreover it even allows you to sync with third party cloud providers
besides just iCloud. Lastly, it's putting in an actual dock, multiple window
layouts, easy copy paste.

I think it's a real game changer and all of these are features that I've been
truly looking forward to. It's almost like a turning point in my mind. It's
crossed the threshold to where iOS can indeed act as a laptop/desktop
replacement for a huge number of people.

Also, in response to a sibling comment on this thread; I don't think it'll be
too long now before we see full blown app development on iPads as well.

~~~
BatFastard
Wow, give them 5 more years and they will catch up to where the Surface is
now!

~~~
ChuckMcM
It is interesting to watch two companies converging on to the same product
space, I suggested to Panos that my choice between updating an iPad or getting
a new Surface would be whether or not they include LTE connectivity in the
Surface.

The thing Microsoft still doesn't seem to internalize is that 'wifi only' is a
disqualifying feature for many people they would like to convert.

~~~
wamatt
In the past I've been adamant on buying the LTE+Wifi iPads (because more
options right?). In hindsight however, the cellular feature was barely used.

Have you considered an LTE mobile hotspot? It can be left charged (but off) in
your laptop bag for days/weeks and only used for travel or as needed. I found
it to be super useful and not much hassle at all. Also multiple devices can
connect rather simply.

Lastly, a benefit of this sort of decoupling, is it allows for using a
different network carrier to the mobile phone, thus effectively increasing
one's LTE coverage.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I try a lot of stuff. I'm on my fourth iPad, second Surface Pro, my third
Macbook Pro, my fourth ThinkPad. I have also had a Newton, Palm Pilot
(various), Handspring, Nook (ebook), and Android tablets (most interesting
being a 13" one from Lenovo with a built in projector)

I use the Verizon LTE network on my iPad pro _all the time._ When I'm on the
train, when I'm travelling hither and yon. I don't browse/read/search on my
phone (which I use for actually calling and texting people). Not saying that I
represent a typical consumer but I certainly represent at least a cohort of 1
consumers :-).

I had a MiFi for a while (company purchased), but found it consistently had
lower performance then the native networking of my iPad and it was easy to
lose if I wasn't paying attention. Twice I encountered times when it wasn't
charged when I needed it. On analyzing it overall I found that because it
wasn't forced to be charged when I charged my laptop/tablet, it suffered from
sometimes being missed when it needed to be charged. That the radio is by
definition charged when the iPad is charged avoids that failure mode for me.

When travelling with my SPro4 I would sometimes 'hot spot' it to my tablet.
Awkward but it works. In the inversion that I still marvel about the software
availability on the iPad has always been better than the availability of
software on the SPro4.

The SPro4 has a better (to my taste) drawing experience than the iPad Pro
does. And both the iPad Pro and SPro4 are way better than previous stylus
attempts on capacitive screens.

The iPad has a much better 'tablet only' experience for me, and a much worse
'docked' experience. SPro4 with a Surface Dock and a couple of UHD monitors is
literally indistinguishable from the NUC i7 box I use as a desktop. There is
nothing (yet) that I can attach to my iPad Pro to make it work like a Macbook
Pro (I know I know, different OS, processor etc.)

As a result I create more in general on my SPro4, consume more on my iPad Pro.
I travel with my iPad in my hand and my SPro in my backpack.

Clearly I have been unable to leave one behind and just use the other so there
is some more convergence to go :-)

~~~
sqldba
What are your LTE costs per GB? It hasn't caught on in Australia; you pay
about $30AUD a month for about 5GB of total data traffic. If you have 5
devices you usually can't share it either so you either have to swap a lot of
SIMs or that's $150 a month one for each.

~~~
cstejerean
In the US pretty much all carriers have moved to shared data plans where you
can get a pool of data to share between all devices on the plan, which can
include other family members.

------
williamstein
They have __deprecated __the whole idea of RAM as a spec.
At[https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/](https://www.apple.com/ipad-
pro/specs/), they only list "capacity" (of 64GB, 256GB, 512GB), and have no
mention of RAM anywhere. Interesting. I guess they are viewing RAM versus
persistent flash memory as just another level of tiering/caching, and believe
their swap is so good that it all blends together.

~~~
fredsted
I don't think Apple has ever displayed the amount of RAM on iOS-family product
pages.

~~~
spike021
Same. Usually it takes one of the companies that open up new products seeing
what kind of RAM is on the logic board to know what a device has.

------
dchuk
The thing that I hung onto during this part of the Keynote was that I have
never seen anyone use an iPad laying flat on a table like that. Not only
ergonomically that's bad (for your neck) most of the time I'm using mine on
one knee kicking back on the couch or in bed.

A lot of the gestures they showed for multitasking require multiple fingers on
both hands, so you can't also be holding the device.

I suppose with it propped up via a kickstand it might work fine, it just
looked awkward to me to be fully flat like that. I also don't draw on an iPad
so maybe I'm just not the target user for that orientation.

~~~
scrumper
I use my 12" iPad Pro flat a lot, mostly for taking notes in meetings using
the pencil or drawing diagrams. It's no different to using pen and paper in
terms of neck angles and the like.

I do find myself using the pencil for stuff you'd do with a finger (clicking
buttons etc.) as well as writing/drawing though, maybe in subconscious
deference to those ergonomic issues.

------
sundvor
Model numbers please(!). I know there already was an iPad Pro, and now there's
another iPad Pro. Is this the iPad PRO version 11 then (to correspond with the
IOS version it was released for), or iPad PRO version 2017 (the year it was
released)? Or is it version 2 or 3?

Microsoft appears to be doing the same thing with their Surface Pro, so it's
not just Apple.

Look at Lenovo's site, e.g. for an X1 Carbon, and it tells you we're now on
Gen 5. Thank you, Lenovo. And Dell doesn't try to hide that their latest XPS
15 is the 9560. Thank you, Dell.

~~~
ianai
I think they do fine with simple year numbers. The silly "air" and "pro"
monikers seem to be confusing them. They seem to want to sunset the "air"
qualifier, but they just refreshed it's CPU. I wish they would move back to a
standard hardware set. Have their ultrabooks named one thing and keep them up
to date. Do the same for the pro and desktop lines.

~~~
kalleboo
The problem with displaying year numbers is that it becomes an embarrassment
when they let a product languish for oh...3 years or so

~~~
sundvor
On the flip side, maybe they wouldn't let that happen again, then. :D

------
chx
This will steer more users from a platform where you can run whatever you want
(macOS) to a platform where you can run whatever Apple lets you (iOS). If it's
not self evident why this is bad then -- as I did with the recent Windows S,
Amiga X5000 announcements -- let me dig up my seven year old blog post trying
to explain why this is very bad
[http://drupal4hu.com/future/freedom](http://drupal4hu.com/future/freedom)

And no, this is not an "Apple is evil" rant, it's simply they are making more
money this way.

------
enlightenedfool
Felt I saw somewhere. Felt like MS Surface Pro. Good job MS. You've come a
long way.

~~~
jkaunisv1
I just got a Surface and it's unsettling how nice it feels and works. Like it
shouldn't be a MS product.

~~~
Declanomous
I have been using Linux as my primary OS for probably 10 years now, and I
still love the Surface Pro. I bought a Surface Pro 1 the week they came out. I
think the Surface lineup is one of the best lines of computers _ever_.

I'm incredibly conflicted, because I need a new portable computer, and I love
the Surface, but I do not love Microsoft.

~~~
z1mm32m4n
Is it possible to run Linux on a Surface Book? I'd really love to have the
large detachable screen to read PDFs, but I'd really prefer to be able to use
actual Linux as opposed to WSL Linux.

Alternatively, are there any other laptops like the Surface Book (i.e., have a
detachable touch screen) that work with Linux?

~~~
Analemma_
Here's an evergreen post with the "current status":
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/comments/6eau79/curren...](https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/comments/6eau79/current_state_of_surfaces/)

TL;DR: You can install and run it, but touch, pen, and the dGPU do not work,
which makes it kind of pointless compared to e.g. an XPS 13.

~~~
Declanomous
Which is one of the reasons I'm considering an XPS 13 over a Surface.

I actually like touch screens, but they do not work well in Linux. I didn't
'get' Windows 8 until I got my Surface, and I really enjoy using the touch
screen when browsing the web and just screwing around with my computer.
Touch/pen is a lot more convenient than any other mouse replacement while on
the go.

I will be surprised if the Linux community does anything meaningful with touch
in the next 5 years though.

As for WiFi, I hate how finicky it is, but it isn't really the developers
fault. I spent an entire week trying to get a "Linux compatible" WiFi dongle
working before I gave up and returned it. The drivers had been written for
Linux 4.1 or maybe even 3.xx. Once I took care of all of the errors and got
the driver to compile, I learned that the USB 3.0 version never worked on
Linux, despite the fact that the manufacturer had compiled a driver.

At least every new install of Linux doesn't start from the command line,
unless you are looking for a distro like that.

~~~
Analemma_
I totally agree. I actually love both Linux and my Surface, but I would never
put Linux _on_ the Surface, for exactly that reason. Touch-friendliness is one
of those things that's just going to take a while on Linux if it comes at all:
a lot of the people who might contribute tend to be the same sort of people
who turn up their noses at touch interfaces on a desktop OS.

As for the WiFi, that's probably more Microsoft's fault. For some reason they
insist on using these godawful Marvell chipsets for all the Surfaces. Users
have been yelling at them to pick anything else, but it hasn't stuck.

~~~
Declanomous
The Marvell chipsets are awful, this is true. However, I think the only
802.11ac chipset that currently works with Linux is Intel, since Atheros
hasn't been Linux-friendly ever since they were bought out by Qualcomm.

As far as I'm aware, there are no WiFi dongles that support 802.11AC. I think
your only option is internal. So if you want to connect to a 802.11ac network
on a Linux desktop your only option is connecting through a wired connection
with a bridged 802.11ac router or something.

I don't _personally_ mind, but I do think it's bad for the adoption of Linux.
Most people I know only have Laptops, and if people can't get their WiFi
working they aren't going to use Linux.

------
toomanybeersies
A shame to see there's no update to the iPad mini. For casual users, it's not
so useful any more, with the larger iPhones of today, but it's very useful for
professional and business use in cases where space/size is a constraint, and
an iPhone isn't warranted.

The app we develop has quite a few users on iPad minis. Apart from the fact
that it's only for iPad, I don't think we would get many users moving to using
an iPhone, firstly because of cost, and secondly because it's just a bit too
small.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
I'm dying for a Mini with Pencil support. I want a digital Moleskine.

If "iPads seen in the wild" are anything to go by, they're still the best-
selling model, too. My best guess is that the usability gurus have decided
that it's just no good for "getting work done," and they're willing to
sacrifice some sales to get more professional traction.

~~~
ianai
They really are a great size. Pretty much the portability of an iPhone with
plenty of screen. But since it's not my phone I don't have to take it
everywhere.

------
SmellTheGlove
At some point I would have expected that one could develop iOS apps on the
iPad Pro itself (without a computer). Not yet, apparently.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
That, to me, is one of the defining features of a general-purpose computer.
Can I develop software for it, with it?

Perhaps it might not be pleasant, if the hardware isn't very powerful -
looking at 20 lines of code on a netbook screen, or waiting for the serial
communication to catch up to my terminal on the embedded board - but it makes
it a tool with which you can do real work. Tablets and phones don't count yet.

Edit: Yes, I am aware of the SSH clients, with which you can connect to a
remote server, do the development there, and download the resulting app. But
the remote server is the general-like computer there, just as the PC running
the terminal is not the primary machine in some embedded development.

~~~
scrumper
Pythonista comes pretty close without being "Xcode for iPad". You can develop
apps using it, which can have icons on the home screen.

------
acomjean
I'm skeptical about the tablet.

I went on a trip last week and left my workhorse macbook pro at home for the
first time on a trip and brought my iPad mini.

It just isn't that useful for dealing with photos taken with a separate
camera. It was nice for browsing the web but that was pretty much it. I
couldn't work on my learning new graphical js on my downtime, not beat making
(ableton). The iphone was great on the trip while on the go.

It just doesn't feel like a creative device. Even though the pencil is
amazing, I just don't see it.

~~~
iamatworknow
>It just isn't that useful for dealing with photos taken with a separate
camera.

I recently went on a trip with no laptop -- only my "real" camera, my iPhone,
and a Western Digital MyPassport Wireless Pro:
[https://www.wdc.com/products/portable-storage/my-passport-
wi...](https://www.wdc.com/products/portable-storage/my-passport-wireless-
pro.html)

It worked out surprisingly well. I mainly bought the MyPassport for the extra
storage space so I didn't have to bring a million SD cards, but it also worked
well as a backup battery pack for the phone, and for transferring a few of
those images to the phone for immediate access. Admittedly, I shot in RAW +
JPEG and the app only recognizes the JPEGs (from what I could tell quickly)
but it was good enough for the few photos I wanted to share right away after
taking them.

I don't have an iPad but I've been considering one just for photo editing with
the pencil. I hear Lightroom on iPads is getting better, and I just got an
e-mail today about Affinity Photo being released for iPad.

But yeah, consider the WD MyPassport if transferring/storing photos without a
true laptop was a problem.

~~~
acomjean
thanks for the tip, that drive seems useful for backing stuff up on the go.

I tried the wireless sd cards at one point, but it gets hard as the photos get
pretty big and the interface never worked quite right.

~~~
iamatworknow
Yeah, the wireless SD cards were a nightmare. Case in point:
[https://petapixel.com/2016/06/30/eye-fi-brick-older-wi-fi-
ca...](https://petapixel.com/2016/06/30/eye-fi-brick-older-wi-fi-cards-
photographer-arent-happy/)

------
city41
I wonder what the pencil means for Wacom? It looks fantastic, and from my
naive perspective looks like it'd be just as capable as a high end Wacom
tablet. Any artists here who can chime in?

~~~
Keyframe
I haven't tried iPad Pro nor Microsoft Surface, but Wacom has a texture on the
surface which makes a lot of difference when drawing and painting. Even Cintiq
has a layer of that on it. Even if they've solved 'drawing on glass' (which
should be shit compared to textured surface), there's still that whole issue
of proper apps to draw in compared to iOS.

~~~
DenisM
Some screen protectors add a bit of grip, so it feels more like paper and less
like glass under the pen.

~~~
ianai
reference?

------
singularity2001
At second 47 in the film[0] he is trying to draw a circle and instead gets
this very angular polygon:

[1] [http://imgur.com/a/J91OZ](http://imgur.com/a/J91OZ)

[0] [https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/](https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/)

Is that really the best that state of the art can do?

~~~
obsurveyor
The 12.9" iPad Pro + Pencil + 60hz app works very well with no behavior like
that. My guess is that it's a beta iOS issue because there seems to be a lot
of churn with major iOS versions when it comes to the pencil. Apps usually
have to do some kind of update to address whatever Apple has done each time
around.

------
martijn_himself
I'm really interested in this, but at roughly £950 for the 256GB model
including keyboard and pencil, can I use it for full time web development?

~~~
jaegerpicker
I use my iPad Pro for development ALL the time.

Two ways I get it done: 1\. ssh into a remote vm in the cloud and use that.
Emacs (or vim if you are that kind of person ;) ), tmux, and zsh shell are all
I really need.

2\. Use Coda or another on device editor. This one is a little harder as it's
not quite as good as you desktop editors like VS.Code or Atom. That said I do
it often and enjoy the experience.

~~~
AcerbicZero
That's a bit expensive for a glorified thin client.

~~~
djrogers
That implies this is it's only use...

~~~
intended
The question asked was about using the iPad pro to code.

------
gdubs
To balance out the negativity here's my anecdotal input - the iPad Pro has had
more impact on my creativity than any device I can remember, and it's almost
entirely due to the pencil and how it's brought drawing back into my life.

That's not even counting it's usefulness for music making, etc.

I've never seen it as a replacement for desktop software - it's a different
class with different user behaviors. I'm generally bullish on the form factor
over the long term, and see no reason why it needs to be a zero sum game
between tablet and desktop.

------
chj
Without a sharing file system,you are forced to implement file syncing in
almost every productivity app. It is madness.

------
JustSomeNobody
I _really_ wish they would have brought Files to the iPhone as well. Actually,
many of the features they demoed for the iPad would be very welcome on the
iPhone.

~~~
Guiltylemon
I have the iOS 11 beta on my iPhone and the Files app is definitely here and
working as expected.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
I have searched all day[0] for evidence of it and didn't see anything. I am
very glad you came in and said it is there. That is so good to know.

[0] Well, during meetings...

------
myrandomcomment
I have a the 12" with a pen since it came out. Really wanted to use it for
taking notes, but then I remember my handwriting is complete chicken scratch.
It did find a nice place as a tool for doing wireframes of the UI for my
current startup for PLM. Also I will say I have gotten used to the split
screen. It is nice to watch a video and also open the web browser or email.
Looks like IOS 11 makes this even better. The iPad was not a replacement for
my MacBook Pro. Speaking of which, 16GB on MacBooks now. Going to order one
ASAP. I travel so weight and size is the most important thing (besides the
fact I need 16GB). At home or work I just jack into the thunderbolt port for
monitor, keyboard, mouse and network.

------
kendallpark
The file manager is better late than never. My real question is what will text
editing look like?

The lack of a cursor on iPad makes something like programming or writing on
the iPad insanely frustrating. Have you ever tried selecting a precise amount
of text with your finger?

~~~
shaunparker
On the iPad you can drag two fingers over the keyboard to move the cursor
around. When you have text selected, two finger dragging on the top half moves
the left side of the selection and the bottom the opposite. It's a very useful
gesture.

------
maxxxxx
Is there way to do a dual screen setup with this?

~~~
4ad
As an additional screen to a mac, yes, there are severals apps for that,
however they all require 3rd party kernel drivers on the mac so they will most
likely break on major updates and they will probably be discontinued at some
point.

They work reasonably well for web browsing and development, but I would not
use them for photo or video stuff.

------
Stanleyc23
Still waiting for xcode on iOS

~~~
blazespin
Yeah, no kidding. "iPad Pro" and I can't even design iOS Apps? Please.

~~~
scotu
there are lots of kinds of pros, not only sw dev, you know. Then again, I'm a
sw dev and I'd like to develop software on it, so maybe one day

------
kgabis
I wonder where iPad line will be in few years. Personally I don't see a reason
to use an iPad over my macbook, but if this trend continues, then it might be
a reasonable pc replacement for most users.

~~~
scholia
iPad sales are down by half (in unit terms) compared with its peak. Android
tablet sales are down as well.

From his previous remarks (Why would you buy a PC? etc), Tim Cook seems to
want everyone to move to iOS, and the neglect of the Mac line seems to support
that idea. But he's yet to show he can move the market in that direction....

~~~
scholia
_Apple posted its first full-year iPad sales dip in fiscal 2014. Unit sales
slipped 4% that year, while revenue fell 5%. The sales declines accelerated
thereafter. In fiscal 2015, unit sales plunged 19% and revenue dropped by 23%.
In fiscal 2016, unit sales fell another 17%, while revenue tumbled 11%.
Double-digit declines along both metrics continued in the first quarter of
fiscal 2017. The net result is that Apple shipped just 42.6 million iPads
during the 2016 calendar year, down about 40% from the peak a few years ago._
[https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/19/is-the-ipad-
dead.a...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/19/is-the-ipad-dead.aspx)

Apple Quietly Acknowledges the iPad’s Staggering Decline
[http://fortune.com/2017/03/21/apple-ipad-
decline/](http://fortune.com/2017/03/21/apple-ipad-decline/)

It's been two and a half years of decline – tablets aren't coming back
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/05/tablets_arent_comin...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/05/tablets_arent_coming_back/)

 _In an interview with The Telegraph, Cook said, "I think if you're looking at
a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?" He
continued: "Yes, the iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for
many, many people. They will start using it and conclude they no longer need
to use anything else, other than their phones."_
[http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-ceo-tim-cook-why-
would-y...](http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-ceo-tim-cook-why-would-you-
buy-a-pc-anymore-2015-11?r=UK&IR=T)

Has Apple lost interest in the Mac? [http://macdailynews.com/2016/09/11/has-
apple-lost-interest-i...](http://macdailynews.com/2016/09/11/has-apple-lost-
interest-in-the-mac/)

Has Apple Lost Interest in the Mac? [http://www.kirkville.com/has-apple-lost-
interest-in-the-mac/](http://www.kirkville.com/has-apple-lost-interest-in-the-
mac/)

------
ChuckMcM
Interesting that the Ars coverage
([https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/06/apple-introduces-a-
red...](https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/06/apple-introduces-a-
redesigned-10-5-inch-ipad-pro/)) is the new hotness but the Apple web site is
the 'old' iPad Pro.

~~~
ChuckMcM
... and after a couple of cdn cache flushes its up with the latest and
greatest.

------
deepGem
Did anyone notice any mention of Apple's new File system in iOS 11 for the
iPad Pro ? I stepped out of the keynote for 5 mins and probably missed the
announcement. Apple homepage isn't updated with the new model details yet.

~~~
guywithabike
APFS is already out in the latest versions of iOS 10.

------
simplify
What's the difference between this newer iPad pro and the original iPad pro?

~~~
MitjaBezensek
10.5" screen, better screen, new chip, configurations start with more ram.

~~~
technofiend
This was rumored to have a 10X chip, but the site says 9X. Is that accurate or
did they forget to update the website?

~~~
briandear
It's a 10X -- the A10X Fusion to be exact (6-core). It also has a 12-core GPU.

~~~
technofiend
Sweet, thanks.

------
MikusR
It's funny how almost all announced pencil features have been available on
Galaxy Note devices for years (Apple even copied the lock-screen note feature.
It seems that somebody at Apple got to use a Galaxy Note.

~~~
iamatworknow
I had a Note 2, then a Note 4, then switched to iPhone, and the stylus is the
only thing I miss, so if they are stealing that from the Note series, I'm
totally fine with it.

------
dbatten
Is it just me, or does the one on the left look weirdly skewed, like the right
side is bigger than the left side?

Uncharacteristic design mistake for Apple...

~~~
heartbreak
It's just you.

~~~
dbatten
Really? I wonder if this is some sort of optical illusion like the dress? I
can't imagine Apple releasing a skewed product photo, but I can't see anything
but a trapezoid when I look at that iPad on the left...

------
mitchell_h
To me this doesn't look like iPad taking on the surface so much as ipad taking
on the surface and Chromebooks.

------
sleeplesss
Apple is trying to made ipad become a laptop by adding keyboard, pen,
upgrading iOS (files app, drop-n-drag). It is funny because most people will
go to work with a Mac/PC. Why should Apple try to make iPad become a Pc?

It is so late because Microsoft has Surface pro which runs windows long time
ago. It is funny to see Apple adding file app, drag-n-drop features as
improvements.

~~~
lawkwok
I actually think this is a major advantage for Apple.

While Microsoft is trying to pare down their desktop system while maintaining
legacy code, Apple is able to add core features based on usage and demand. The
iPad and Mac are like testing grounds for each other where both OSes can
borrow good aspects from the other. Sometimes it’s easier to start from
scratch and rethink the fundamentals rather than modifying existing ideas
under constraints of the old paradigm.

Apple has MacOS already as a “fallback”. If Microsoft one day realizes that
Apple’s tablet interface is the way to go, they would be seriously behind.

~~~
intended
Actually it's the other way around.

Under jobs, Apple has vision clarity, iOS was going to be primarily
consumptive, and MacOS was production. The two were not to meet.

MSFT on the other hand had grown too many OSes to deal with capably, an
example being that xbox, windows, windows CE all had their own implementation
of TCP (iirc).

So MS decides to fix their architecture, unifying and ordering all
implementations. It's a huge under taking.

Apple without jobs is meandering towards the same ideas. But iOS is not
designed for these use cases. The iPad Pro and Mac OS will not converge. The
best that the iPad Pro will become is a power android variant.

Microsoft will keep making surface and surface like devices, which will be not
face that limitation.

If anything, Apple will have to imitate the entire Microsoft style, and
include a touch screen on the mac, along with stylus support.

Their product vision is lost without jobs.

------
rebootthesystem
Still no multiuser capabilities. Truly disappointing.

Not upgrading. Not interested.

------
artursapek
"It's lit."

I love Apple trying to relate to young people

~~~
dmix
Oh no, they didn't say this did they?

I recently saw Ken Bone tweet "Savage" in a serious context. It's funny how
fast 'youth'/'urban' culture is being swallowed up by mainstream typically
out-of-touch demographics.

But I guess it's all part of this obsession with authenticity recently. This
puts a lot of pressure on the youth to adapt quickly and develop new slang.

Not sure I feel comfortable with this development though. I'd rather be okay
with big corporate marketing firms not being lame by using old slang, focusing
on interesting but neutral copy, rather than them constantly keeping up with
the latest slang and memes to seem in touch with 'millennials'.

They should know how defeating this feels to people 'in the know' aka people
who pioneer what is cool.

~~~
artursapek
It's in the fake text message conversation, with the break-dancing fellow.

------
rb808
Whenever I see the ipad pro I remember this cartoon about Ballmer, cracks me
up every time. [http://hijinksensue.com/comic/surface-
tension/](http://hijinksensue.com/comic/surface-tension/)

~~~
asciimo
Brilliant. There's a lot going on in those three frames.

~~~
baq
especially when you look at the dates.

------
digi_owl
Heh, i give them a year or two before they retire the imac range completely.

------
ezjones
Useless OS. Will be getting a Surface.

------
hobarrera
Looks like the iOS 11 site it totally broken though:
[https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11-preview/](https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-11-preview/)

The images make little sense. And then I got to the point where paragraphs
referenced photo animations and the images were still, and realized they
probably wanted to make some fancy animation that's not working on firefox.

I tried on chromium, and then on Safari on my iPhone. Same results. Not sure
if they screwed up or what, but even the "Live Photos" images are stills that
make no sense.

~~~
eridius
Looks perfectly fine on Safari for macOS as well as Safari for iPhone.

Maybe you just have a crap internet connection and can't download the video
animations?

~~~
hobarrera
I don't have access to any machines with macOS, but I tried:

    
    
        * Firefox on Linux
        * Chromium on Linux
        * Firefox on iOS
        * Safari on iOS
    

I didn't work on any yesterday. It works on Firefox today. They probably fixed
it at some point since my initial comment.

------
Unbeliever69
I imagine Steve Jobs is turning over in his grave right about now.

------
booleandilemma
"If you see a stylus, they blew it." -Steve Jobs

~~~
function_seven
This lazy out-of-context meme needs to die

[https://www.quora.com/Was-Steve-Jobs-right-when-he-said-
that...](https://www.quora.com/Was-Steve-Jobs-right-when-he-said-that-if-you-
see-a-stylus-they-blew-it)

~~~
michaelmrose
This appears to be revisionist history. Jobs saw phone interfaces via stylus,
noted they sucked, concluded that interacting with a handheld device with a
stylus sucks on principal. You can agree or disagree but it seems nonsensical
to try to add words to inject your own context to revise history to render
jobs correct if you don't think the original statement as given was correct.

Further that link commits the usual sin of ascribing the invention of tech
that apple popularized to apple for no reason. Multitouch and gestures goes
back to the 80s see

[https://inventhelp.com/archives/11-12/inventhelp-
newsletter-...](https://inventhelp.com/archives/11-12/inventhelp-newsletter-
november-2012/who-invented-multitouch)

Quora is kind of a low value source. I would refute author on quora but they
want access to read and manage my google contacts to create an account. Kind
of one step up from malware I'm pretty sure they intend to use it to spam my
contacts.

~~~
function_seven
The context any statement is made in is very important and can't be ignored.
At the time, we all remember the touchscreen devices that were popular. They
had tiny little UI elements and basically required a stylus to interact with
them.

I would make a slight but important modification to your second sentence:

    
    
        concluded that interacting with a handheld device's *UI* with a stylus
        sucks on principal.
    

That still holds. It's not a fair interpretation to think that Jobs considered
having an _optional_ stylus a failure.

I agree with respect to Quora in general, but that link summed up my feelings
on the subject so I included it instead of writing it out myself.

~~~
sangnoir
> The context any statement is made in is very important and can't be ignored

The fact that Jobs said this can't be ignored: he would diss anything Apple
did not (yet) have without needing a better reason than making Apple look
good. He's the man who said "No one wants 'Hummer' 5-inch phones" (remember
when that counted as huge?) and "You will need to file down your fingers to
use 7-inch tablets" yet 3.5-inch iPhones could handle full-sized fingers just
fine. I still remember the bogus[1] comparison shared by Apple fans that
showed 3.5 inches as the perfect size for thumb reachability.

As you know Apple later entered those product categories without Apple adding
anything significant to the formula.

1\. Bogus because the phone sizes were not to scale. The thumb radius was
larger on the smaller iPhone.

~~~
function_seven
Fair point. I also remember Apple saying black and white screens were somehow
superior to color. (Could be apocryphal)

FWIW, I use an iPhone SE because I still think the 5" phones are too annoying
to use in one hand.

But yes, Apple has done this. I think the stylus thing has been beaten to
death already, and I should have known better to be baited into a comment
thread that isn't very useful anyway.

