
How to lie about your programming job title for great profit - psergeant
https://codeformore.com/when-two-job-titles-are-better-than-one/
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jasonkester
I think I'd still prefer to never be on that list of 600 names in the first
place.

A much better way to move your career forward is to perform the necessary
actions such that you're the guy whose name the CTO forwards along to HR with
instructions to make an offer and, optionally, a resume for the file.

I spent the first half dozen years of my career fighting my way off of that
list. Once you have a few good connections with memories of you being good at
what you do, along with objective external proof of same, the process of
changing jobs becomes a lot more enjoyable.

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buro9
Let this be the maximum of what you do.

I've seen CVs that have job titles that make the person sound like Daenerys
Targaryen... Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven
Kingdoms, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, Mother of
Dragons, Lady of Dragonstone, Queen of Meereen.

The point made in this article is good, but as someone who reads a lot of CVs
and does a lot of phone screening and interviewing... be very wary of over-
claiming anywhere. It's a huge red flag.

~~~
dalbasal
Once upon a time, I re-wrote my ex’s sisters CV. Fudging some, rounding up,
deleting caveats, using ambiguous terms… Nothing onerous. She was barely out
of college anyway.

They had been brought up on strict honesty, bordering on puritanical. They
were both shocked at what I did.

Dunno… When it comes to CVs, interviews and such… It just feels ridiculous
applying your highest standards of integrity. The process is disingenuous
anyway. Employers, and the ecosystem around hiring isn’t applying those
standards. Are they being honest about how good the job/company/team is? Are
they using dirty tricks like finding out your salary before making an offer?
Do candidates ask what other team members are making?

It’s asymmetric and tends to dishonesty anyway. So yep, certainly do this if
it applies to you. I would call this well within the lines, not even close.

~~~
cafard
Once, working for a government contractor, I had to write up the
qualifications of some people we intended to place on the contract. Now, all
of these people already worked on the predecessor, so there was not mystery
about who they were or what they did. But people who were OK to plug in cables
or clear printer jams were written up as if they had taught Bjarne Stroustrup
to code and left Bell Labs because they didn't like New Jersey.

For what it's worth, a) we got the contract, and b) the contractor screwed
over the employees who stuck around.

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pjc50
Summary: report your job title as "description of job (job title given by
employer)" in order to improve keyword matching on your CV.

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warent
The article is good, it describes a technique I've used in my career with
successful results as well.

The title posted by OP is ridiculous though. It's not lying, and the article
directly addresses that it's honesty.

~~~
ghaff
Furthermore, at many companies, your internal HR title isn’t even intended for
external consumption. I would actually need to go and lookup what title is in
the system for me. I’ve never used it.

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alkonaut
In what markets are titles common for technical people such as developers
(apart from megacorps where they seem to be universal)? Would you ever have a
formal job title as a developer at a company of 20 developers in e.g the US?

I have had to invent my own title for as long as I can remember because there
aren't fixed roles/positions/titles at the company (In the sense that you are
_hired_ at a certain role/title.).

I'm now probably some kind of "Senior developer", or "Lead developer" or
"Architect" or whatever. And I'd introduce me as such if someone asked. But I
don't think this title exists in some database or contract anywhere. When we
hire we some times call it "senior developer" just to mean experienced. But we
don't have pay grades that means this new hire would necessarily be making
more money than anyone not senior.

~~~
zzalpha
_apart from megacorps where they seem to be universal_

So factor out a huge part of the job market?

SV startups are a small percentage of the overall tech world. Legions of
programmers are hired in traditional companies in finance, energy, tech,
aerospace... And on and on and on.

And in most of those organizations, titles are common.

Moreover, regional cultural differences greatly affect the value of a title. A
person in California or Colorado often sees titles differently than someone in
New York or Boston. And many cultures outside the US often view titles as
extremely important as an outward measure of success.

~~~
alkonaut
> So factor out a huge part of the job market?

I was just trying to exclude them from my question. I realize megacorps in all
countries and all industries have titles. So they aren't interesting for my
question.

> And in most of those organizations, titles are common.

I'm in a very traditional business and I don't have a title, or know many
developers that do in small/medium organizations. Hence my question.

> the question you pose just illustrates how cloistered you may be.

I imagine I am. Hence the question.

~~~
zzalpha
BTW, I took out that last paragraph, I was being a dick.

But I don't think there's a clear answer to the question, other than "they're
pretty common".

My bet is that they're more common on the east coast than the west. As for
specific industries, that I can't speak to, though companies with strong HR
departments sometimes like titles since it makes salaries and promotions a lot
easier to manage.

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thisisit
I think it's better to look at the market for your profile and decide what to
add in the title. And it's not lying. From what I know different companies use
different job description/hierarchies. I have seen companies use:

Software Engineer

Software Consultant

Technical Consultant

Associate Engineer

Associate Consultant

Member of Technical Staff

Software Development Engineer

to name a few, which effectively have the same job profile/description.

Then there is the trend of adding "2" to the job role. This helps stoke
people's ego by making them believe they have progressed in a new designation
but it is confusing.

The "Software Development Engineer 2" can be equivalent to a Senior Engineer
in another company.

Then there is confusing titles like "Staff Engineer", specially in
semiconductor companies, which to an untrained recruiter is equivalent to the
"Member of Technical Staff".

In my personal opinion, recruiters should stop looking at the titles and talk
to candidates before rejecting any one.

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dx034
Good advice. It's not lying if you provide a more accurate description of what
you did at your previous job. Job titles are often confusing and can differ
significantly between companies. Saying what you actually worked on will help
a new employer/recruiter more than your official title.

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jondubois
>> Lawrence Webb, the Murex Support consultant, is probably shit-out-of-luck

I bet that this Lawrence Webb guy gets paid really well being a Murex
specialist (whatever that is) and he probably doesn't get irrelevant spam
messages from recruiters like I do.

I know for a fact that very niche engineers often get paid a lot. When a
really specialized recruiter sees an exact keyword match for some exotic
technology that their client specifically asked for, they go insane and will
pay anything to get you.

~~~
psergeant
Lawrence Webb, in this case, had applied for a Perl programming job. Name was
changed to protect the innocent. If he’d applied for a Murex support role,
he’d have been fine.

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flipp3r
So, CV SEO?

