
Jack Ma to Retire from Alibaba - tysone
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/07/technology/alibaba-jack-ma-retiring.html
======
mv4
"When you are 50 to 60 years old, spend time training and developing young
people, the next generation," Ma added. "When you are over 60 years old, you
better stay with your grandchildren."

[https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/30/jack-ma-dont-fear-making-
mis...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/30/jack-ma-dont-fear-making-mistakes-in-
your-20s-and-30s.html)

~~~
libertine
I actually believe this - he is fulfilling his vision of the stages in life.

Sometimes there are no smokes and mirrors.

~~~
eip
>Sometimes there are no smokes and mirrors.

This is hilariously ironic considering Alibaba is almost 100% smoke and
mirrors.

~~~
fegul
How so?

~~~
akaij
I think they are referring to Alibaba (allegedly) being a front for the
Chinese Communist Party to launder money.

~~~
eip
"Hey, from the latest 20-F (page 118) we know that you've created about 600
new legal entities over the last two years under your "Enhancement" program,
getting more friends, family and political cronies involved in the dilution of
the Capital Structure. So, I guess my question is "how long is this bullshit
going to go on?""

[https://deep-throat-ipo.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-calland-
ope...](https://deep-throat-ipo.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-calland-open-letter-
to-securities.html)

------
vincvinc
> An Alibaba spokesman said Ma remains the company’s executive chairman and
> will provide transition plans over a significant period of time, contrary to
> a New York Times article that said he was “stepping down” to “retire.” The
> Times story was taken out of context, and factually wrong, the spokesman
> said.

[https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2163376/jack...](https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2163376/jack-
ma-remain-alibabas-chairman-succession-plan-younger-talent)

~~~
leesalminen
Does it surprise you that The NY Times took something out of context and
provided factually false info?

~~~
malcolmgreaves
Yes, it does.

------
drum
The brewing trade war can't make running the company easy for Ma, considering
Alibaba does more volume than eBay and Amazon combined as a portal to Chinese
manufacturers. Taking into account that the company's listed on a US stock
exchange yet still has to answer to government regulation back in China, I
can't imagine he's having a good time being caught in the middle.

~~~
rgbrenner
They'll be ok, even with the trade war. The majority (about 90%) of Alibaba's
sales are domestic (Chinese). The rest is exports (not just to the US though):
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/226793/e-commerce-
revenu...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/226793/e-commerce-revenue-of-
alibabacom/)

And read this if you want to get an idea of where their revenue comes from:
[https://www.nasdaq.com/article/alibaba-baba-
misses-q1-earnin...](https://www.nasdaq.com/article/alibaba-baba-
misses-q1-earnings-estimates-beats-revenues-cm1012568)

~~~
crystalmeph
>The majority (about 90%) of Alibaba's sales are domestic (Chinese)

But how many of those domestic customers get their own paycheck from exports?
China is moving towards a more domestic-focused economy, but exports are still
a big deal for them.

~~~
PakG1
Did you try reading the above linked NASDAQ link?

Total overall revenues:

 _Alibaba reported revenues of RMB80.9 billion (US$12.23 billion), up 61% from
the prior-year quarter. Also, revenues came in slightly above the Zacks
Consensus Estimate of US$12.25 billion._

Total revenues related to selling exports:

 _· International commerce retail business (6% of the total revenues) -
Revenues in the quarter were RMB4.3 billion (US$652 million), increasing 64%
year over year. The increase was driven by robust GMV growth in two
marketplaces, namely Lazada and AliExpress.

· International commerce wholesale business (2% of the total revenues) - This
business generated revenues of RMB1.8 billion (US$278 million), increasing 14%
from the prior-year quarter. The growth was due to an increase in the number
of paying members on alibaba.com platform._

So a total of 8% of total revenues were due to selling exports. Plus, it's not
clear how much of that revenue is from Lazada, which is not subject to US
tariffs because its target market is Southeast Asia. If anything, everyone is
suffering from US tariffs, so Lazada can only grow because it's a trade
relationship that doesn't depend on the US.

~~~
jjeaff
I think you misunderstood what they were saying... That it's possible the
domestic customers that make up the majority of Alibaba revenue may decrease
their spending on the platform if their own incomes rely on exports.

~~~
364403453
as a chinese, we barely rely on export as you may already aware of. domestic
economy doesn't change even a bit during trade war. simply because we are
LARGE in many perpective. the cost of renting the house or buy one are on a
up-hill. you may felt we should be affected, but the fact is that we use your
tech(computer engineering) and change our life without much expense of
research and development.

~~~
yawrite
Everyone hurts from a trade war. As an American, you should know we have seen
so much boasting lately that it sounds like the noise of young children.

~~~
364403453
i work in engineering and math so my eco-knowledge is limited. yes it seems we
need to boast to keep economy grows and that's what domestic gov do. i am in
age 22 and i was in euro 2 years ago, i been to shanghai, hang zhou, and if i
may i could judge we haven't been really hurt. personally when i was little i
can't afford whole day air-conditioner open, and i so couldn't i drive to
anywhere far, but these days my family economy status didn't improve
considerablely but appreantly they are cheap

------
joejerryronnie
The reason Jack Ma is stepping down from Alibaba is that he was becoming too
powerful and influencial in China. Jack is very smart and knows that you can
build your wealth and power until you begin to threaten the party, then you
either need to step down or you will be forcefully taken down.

~~~
ck425
Interesting thought. Can you provide any historical examples of this?

~~~
adventured
You can look at his existing behavior for clues to that being the case. When
he took control of Ant Financial from Alibaba, spinning it off, he gave
himself 2/3 of the business. That diluted position would still be worth around
$80-$90 billion today. Instead of holding onto that, he proceeded to massively
dilute his ownership and control of Ant. The reason he did that, is the same
reason he was allowed to take it away from Alibaba without proper compensation
(Alibaba was majority owned by multiple foreign shareholders): strategic
national interest, an edict from the government. The major banks are all
directly state controlled. A very large share of all online transactions in
China flow through Ant Financial, the government couldn't allow that to remain
in one person's hands. Jack got his orders.

In China as a business person it's extremely dangerous to become too powerful
or rich, especially now. Maybe you could have gotten away with it 15 years
ago. China of today is very different from China of the late 1990s and 2000s.

If Jack Ma had held onto his original contrived Ant position, he'd nearly be
the richest person on earth, with a potential chokehold on finance, industry
and retail in China. That position could have plausibly been worth several
hundred billion dollars to him personally over time. That's not something you
want to aspire to currently in China.

~~~
baybal2
That process began long before Alibaba ran into problems with Xi's people (and
it was a petty dispute with lowest tier retainer)

------
dqpb
I hope he's able to make a positive impact on education!

~~~
iKevinShah
with the intensity he speaks and the clarity he has in what he speaks and
given the fact he was a teacher, I fully expect him to actually make a
positive impact

~~~
specialist
I wish all geeks who want to reform (save) education also had Ma's classroom
experience. It's easy to tell other people how to do their jobs. Hard to
actually do the job.

~~~
ethbro
If I had one grain of wisdom I could impart to most geeks, it would be to
impart the value of truly watching and listening.

That thing you're building? Find someone who's _really_ good at the _current_
way it's done.

Sit and watch them. Don't talk, just observe and understand.

After you've sat silently for awhile, then ask any questions you have.

Your product will be immeasurably better in at least one way.

------
bitL
Retire or get offed... Easy choice.

I am wondering how many years has China left, unconstrained kleptocracy can't
last more than a few decades.

------
wanghq
> Ma will remain executive chairman while the plan is carried out. A New York
> Times report that said he was “stepping down” to “retire” was out of
> context, and factually wrong, an Alibaba spokesman said

[https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2163376/jack...](https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2163376/jack-
ma-remain-alibabas-chairman-succession-plan-younger-talent)

------
Mikho
Jack Ma will be able to get more stuff done not being burdened by the Alibaba
leader position. I guess it's just politics for his hands not to be tied and
he could make bigger changes in China.

------
bluetwo
Odds of a financial scandal in the next year?

~~~
eip
"You couldn't successfully audit a good sized publicly held, domestic US Car
Dealership for the fees that PWC Hong Kong charges to audit a global
enterprise like Alibaba"

"I have no idea how PWC can audit this mess for the fees they charge. Every
year, the hours of work required expand geometrically and the fees come in at
about what you'd charge to audit a large US/Domestic publicly traded Car
Dealership. Keep this in mind, Alibaba now has 920 Operating Units (Did I
mention that?) scattered all over the globe, a massive Capital Structure
"Enhancement", with many of these WFOE's and VIE's located in the PRC and all
of these entities are audited from the PWC Hong Kong office. If I were trying
to audit this we'd have substantial travel, staff time and training on both
IFRS and GAAP accounting treatment and methods. All to be researched and
applied to myriad business combinations, sales, mergers and divestitures.
Incredibly, PWC Hong Kong does the whole thing, including tax services and
consulting for US$12.8 million dollars ($13,900 per business unit @ US$12.8
million/920), up from US$ 8.4 Million the prior year. PWC is the the new
"Dollar Store" of public accounting."

[https://deep-throat-ipo.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-
baba-20-ffi...](https://deep-throat-ipo.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-
baba-20-ffinancial-comedy-gold.html)

------
eip
Enron 2019 confirmed.

------
murali89
Fake News

------
daodedickinson
Didn't think Musk would outlast him.

------
baybal2
>Among China’s biggest companies, Alibaba is viewed as one of the firms with
the deepest ranks of management talent.

Claim going perpendicular to experience of every Alibaba employee I met.

A person who was singlehandedly running both business development and
operations for all of Aliexpress has left the company after 5 years without a
promotion.

The co has a reputation for squeezing work enthusiasm out from even most
spirited people around.

~~~
scarejunba
Wouldn't that follow? If your talented management ranks run deep the only way
up is out. He may be fantastic at what he does but if everyone above is also
fantastic, the best thing you can do is raise compensation. Is that what
happened?

~~~
dmix
It's also a huge company and one persons experience with their particular
piece of upper management could be very different for 99% of the other people.

It's possible it was just some low-quality middle managers underneath the
talent which blocked his recognition as well.

Jobs and wages are not finite resources either. If the person was legitimately
producing value for the company, well beyond his own 'cost' to the company
then smart management should have been able to find a way to keep him happy.
Sometime it even comes down to communicating your value and making sure you're
noticed.

Working hard isn't always sufficient on it's own sadly. Sometimes easy for
managers to miss and believe that the other people chomping at the bit for the
position are just as capable.

------
comboy
It ain't working that bad so far. I mean we have increasing gap, but the
0.0001%, which arguably is pretty smart, is in the end using both their wealth
and wisdom to try to selflessly make the world a better place.

I just checked the numbers and indeed, relative amount of money spend on
philanthropy seems to be increasing[1][2], I couldn't find any global numbers
though.

1\.
[https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&...](https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=42)

2\. [https://www.nptrust.org/philanthropic-
resources/charitable-g...](https://www.nptrust.org/philanthropic-
resources/charitable-giving-statistics/)

~~~
lovich
A Chinese company is probably a bad example since their real wages have been
increasing, but do you think relative charity might be increasing because the
rich keep getting richer and the poor poorer? More people need help and the
rich feel the pain less.

~~~
comboy
Just to be super clear, I don't think that the increasing gap is a good thing.
I was just commenting on the fact that surprisingly many super rich people
decide to go into philanthropy instead of letting their wealth dissolve within
their families.

Buffet had a nice, pretty old article about why leaving huge loads of money to
your children is a bad idea but I can't find it at the moment.

~~~
aylmao
Considering that the gap also means increasing disdain against the rich, I'm
not that surprised. Not saying it's all just PR and getting on the good side
of the mob, but it's still true that before being revered for his
philanthropy, Bill Gates was one of the most hated people in tech.

~~~
throwaway080383
Among other tech people, right? Was he ever hated by random people in South
Dakota?

