
Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99 - acak
http://www.gothamair.com/
======
nostromo
A service like this existed until a few years ago.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Helicopter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Helicopter)

It took just a few minutes to get to EWR or JFK and cost $159. The biggest
selling point was not only the short commute, but that you went through
security at the helipad very quickly, rather than waiting at the airport.

I believe they were a victim of the financial crisis and died around that
time.

~~~
dankohn1
I did the $159 a few years ago before they shut down. My flight out of JFK was
delayed by 2 hours, making the expense seem kind of ridiculous. Also, my
flight was in a different terminal, meaning I had to leave and then re-enter
security, which also kills the time advantage.

~~~
orbitur
I don't know. I think I'd pay $160 to not sit in traffic for 3 hours, just to
wait in an airport/go through security for another 2. That means extra time to
get things done before you fly out.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
As someone who lives in a city with a population of approximately 100,000 in
the greater metro area - Launceston, Tasmania - I'd like to take a moment to
reflect on your comment.

Google Maps tells me Manhattan to JFK Airport is a 32 kilometre taxi ride and
takes three hours, plus it takes two hours to clear security at the airport.

I'm a little astounded by those numbers. Five hours to get from the couch at
home to the airport. Astounding. I'm through the airport and in Melbourne city
in under 2 hours.

I would definitely pay $100 to reduce that. I think $100 helicopter flights is
something I would do with friends just to get a drink across town
occasionally. How novel!

~~~
mkopinsky
The numbers above are an exaggeration. I lived in the north end of manhattan
(the part furthest from JFK) and an hour to get to JFK was on the long side -
typical is probably 40-80 minutes. It doesn't take two hours to clear security
at an airport either - typical is anywhere from 10 to 45 minutes.

~~~
mpdehaan2
Incidentally, Uber direct to JFK is slightly cheaper than a cab too
($45-ish?). You think it would be crazy expensive, but it's flat rate. I'm not
sure about from JFK into the city, but I think I was told it was the same.

I'm not too big of a fan of the AirTram + Long Island Railway (LIRR) route,
which ends up at one of the major train stations, has on outside terminal (not
great in the winter and slow with a lot of things to remember to do), but is
about half price of that.

~~~
epc
I've become a big fan of the AirTrain + LIRR combo since moving into Manhattan
from Brooklyn. Almost always consistently 45-50 minutes from terminal to my
apartment in Chelsea. Perfect for rush hour to/from JFK.

------
Animats
Footnote on ad: _" Promotion rate flights are for first time flyers only and
limted to a single use. Other terms and conditions may apply."_

HeliNY, for which they are a reseller, charges $925 for that trip as a
charter. Aircraft capacity is 5 (maybe 6). So the regular price, assuming they
make you wait for a full helicopter, is probably about $200.

~~~
azinman2
Lame.

Now it really is for the 1%. At $99 I can imagine a family wanting to take one
to reduce stress and complexities.

How long until drones can take us? :)

~~~
ryguytilidie
I feel like complaining that you can't take your kids on a helicopter ride to
"reduce stress and complexities" kind of puts you exactly in that 1%...

~~~
azinman2
? Not a complaint, I don't even have kids. But if it was $99 for the ride
(regardless of people) then it's more price efficient for a family flying
compared to the hundreds it costs after their promotional pricing.

------
pyrophane
Some more details: [http://nypost.com/2015/01/20/why-take-a-taxi-to-the-
airport-...](http://nypost.com/2015/01/20/why-take-a-taxi-to-the-airport-when-
you-can-take-a-helicopter/)

> Gotham’s going rates are higher than the initial $99. After the introductory
> flight, prices will range from $199 to $219, depending on the time of day
> and the airport, Hayes said, adding that the choppers will depart from three
> Gotham Air terminals in Manhattan.

------
crazygringo
> _from Manhattan to JFK and Newark Liberty Airports cut the travel time from
> 2-hours to 6 minutes for about the same price as many black cars_

A helicopter flight is cool, sure...

...but "2 hours" is complete nonsense. Even if traffic is terrible, you can
always take LIRR+AirTrain from Penn Station to JFK for less than $15, and it's
basically guaranteed to take 35 min or less, straight to your desired
terminal. Heck, I took it this morning, and there was a new train every 10
min.

And most people are going to find it quicker to get to Penn St than to get to
the heliport in the first place, so it doesn't even have an advantage there...

~~~
yahelc
35 minutes is a stretch. Starting at Penn Station, Google Maps has 52m as the
minimum and 1h11m as the max.

And that's from Penn Station. Add the time it takes to get to Penn Station
from where you're going, it can easily be between 1h30m and 2h. I did this
trip yesterday, and from where I started in Soho until the airport, it was
1h45m.

~~~
lmm
Sure, but are you going to be able to get to the helipad any quicker than
getting to Penn?

~~~
yahelc
There's only one way to find out.

------
snippy
There's an interesting anecdote from Finland. A company called Copterline flew
between Finland's Helsinki and Estonia's Tallinn for many years with two
Sikorsky S-76 helicopters. The trip was over the ocean and took 18 minutes.

Sadly one of their copters crashed into the ocean in 2005, killing all 14
aboard. The reason was purely technical. The hydraulic steering system got
stuck due to debris that had came loose from an inner coating. The copter was
impossible to steer and started spinning around its axis, and spun 13 times
until hitting the ocean.

It was the beginning of the end for the company. Later in 2008 they started
again with two AgustaWestland AW139 copters. I was aboard once, and it was a
fantastic experience. However, it boggled my mind how much even a modern
helicopter vibrates. It's a wonder to me how copters can withstand the
constant violent vibration. Apparently they can, except in rare cases.

In 2004 Copterline transported 75 000 passengers. If all flights were full (12
passengers and 2 pilots) it means about 17 flights a day, every single day.

Copterline went out of business in December 2008 because it was unprofitable.
It's sad, because flying on a helicopter is a cool experience mortals like me
usually can't experience without commercial flights.

------
fishnchips
What a wonderful and completely non-scalable solution to the question of
public transportation.

~~~
lnanek2
What makes you think it won't scale? Seems to mesh well with all the PR about
drones all over the place lately. I could easily see the helicopters being
replaced with remote piloted drone taxis within a decade.

~~~
robbrown451
It's noisy and expensive. Helicopters should have to pay a noise pollution
tax, in my opinion.

------
OoTheNigerian
_The Gotham Air app will revolutionize the way you travel. Our iOS and Android
based technology will allow you to enjoy crowd sourced helicopter flights when
you want. Call your friends or meet some new ones on board. A beautiful new
Bell 407 helicopter is just minutes away!_

Is it really hard to describe services in plain English?

BTW, it's a good idea. Lagos used to have one before.

~~~
sgustard
I find the phrase "crowd sourced helicopter flights" strangely terrifying.

------
shittyanalogy
Y'all are falling for it, this isn't an existing service, it's a hype page.
The flight cost is just filler made to excite you, it will most certainly be
much more, none of the links work, there is no app, no faq, no privacy policy.
This isn't tech related, this isn't even a product announcement it's just
straight hype advertising and y'all are falling for it. Links like this
hitting the top of the front page and spurring 150 comments indicate quite
comically to me the sunset of what was once an insightful, interesting
technology news site.

~~~
elwell
[https://news.ycombinator.com/classic](https://news.ycombinator.com/classic)

------
akyu
>fleet of Teslas

These guys are on top of their buzz game

~~~
tmalsburg2
What is this fleet of Teslas doing on days with good weather? Either they'll
have too much capacity when the weather is good or too little when the weather
is bad.

~~~
mikeash
Driving for Uber, maybe.

~~~
efuquen
Man would love a Tesla to pick me when randomly using Uber one day.

~~~
chambo622
Uber Lux already offers that in Los Angeles, but it comes at a price.

[http://blog.uber.com/LuxLAInvite](http://blog.uber.com/LuxLAInvite)

------
lisper
Something else to consider: baggage capacity. Helicopters operate close to
their weight limits when fully loaded. You may fit, but your bags may not.

------
dogma1138
For 99$ this is something that doesn't even require you to be some hedge fund
brat to use. Not sure what the current cab prices are these days, but i
remember paying about i think 80$ for a cab from JFK to central Manhattan. You
can get it a bit cheaper if you book a car service instead of grabbing a cab
from the airport but it's still not sums that would break anyone's pocket.

A taxi from central London to Heathrow can easily cost 90 quid unless it's a
booked minicab which then drops it to 40-60 quid, you can take the heathrow
express but thats also 40 quid both ways + additional fare to get to
paddington.

I would love to use this service both for the speed and the experience (unlike
the scenic traffic jam you get otherwise) just to get a sky high tour of
NYC...

Too bad it's never gonna scale, there probably will be huge limits on the
amount of luggage you can take (which will make it either very expensive or
completely unusable for international travelers) and the costs are going to go
trough the roof quick enough.

~~~
ghaff
OT but I've never really understood the Heathrow Express economics--and I've
asked Londoners and they've never been able to give a good explanation either.
I take the Piccadilly line in and I've never understood the justification for
taking the Express. Maybe if I were staying right around Paddington but not if
I'm going to have to take the tube or a taxi anyway.

~~~
mason55
I only go to London on business travel so price isn't as big of a deal but I
take the Heathrow Express for time purposes. In morning traffic after the red
eye from NYC it's much faster than either a cab or the tube.

~~~
dogma1138
OT but check the flights from NYC to City Airport they are much better than
anything you can get from/to Heathrow unless you are flying with mile high
club ;)

~~~
mason55
The only flights I'm aware of that fly NYC-LCY are the BA flights that are all
business. The nice thing is that you get to pre-clear immigration in Shannon,
Ireland but unfortunately I'm not quite important enough to demand $10k
flights.

------
johnloeber
Looks awesome. Taking an Uber or Public Transit from Manhattan to JFK has
usually been a pretty severe time-cost, while Ubers and Taxis are also not too
cheap.

This service might actually be worth it, from an economic point of view -- it
probably cuts between 30 and 60 minutes commute time depending on the time of
the day, and it also cuts another 30-45 minutes of security time. Depending on
how much you value your time, this could be worth it. Doesn't seem too
scalable though, which is unfortunate.

Given there are many people who value their time quite highly in Manhattan, I
expect seats on the helicopter(s) will actually be sold out most of time.

(One more aspect to consider in the utility-calculation: what's the
probability the helicopter crashes?)

------
TheMask01
Shoot,it's ~$60 for an UberX according to
[http://uberestimate.com/cost/1/JFK/Manhattan/](http://uberestimate.com/cost/1/JFK/Manhattan/)
.....I'd much rather get to tha choppa

------
RayVR
I frequently fly out of JFK. I have lived in three very different areas of
Manhattan. Never has it taken me more than 1.5 hours to get to JFK. I would
say the mean time is more like 45 minutes.

Yellow cabs are fixed rate $55 + tolls. I can get an uber for around the same
price, often less depending on time of day.

While the idea of having a helicopter fly you out to your airport is great,
the actuality of it is likely pretty much on par with car travel.

The biggest value I see is in transportation to the Hamptons or Nantucket.
There's no security transfer/terminal concerns, the drive out there on the
weekend is a nightmare, and you potentially save time.

~~~
manacit
Uber has done helicopter rides from the city to the Hamptons:
[http://blog.uber.com/nyc/uberchopper-hamptons-
shore-2014](http://blog.uber.com/nyc/uberchopper-hamptons-shore-2014)

I didn't realize it until now, but they've done Uber Chopper in quite a few
places:
[http://blog.uber.com/tag/uberchopper/](http://blog.uber.com/tag/uberchopper/)

------
allendoerfer
As mentioned in the comments, the actual price will be ~200$ with a rented
helicopter, which can take up to 6 passenger.

My first thoughts as a layman are, if the service takes off [0] it could be
made _really_ feasible if they find a way to rent, land and operate a monster
like the Mil Mi-26 [1], which takes 60 civilians or 90 troops.

People would use the service just to fly to the airport for fun.

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZi7tmWhR4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZi7tmWhR4)

[1]:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26)

~~~
slayed0
I think getting stuffed into the back of a windowless Russian military
helicopter may conflict with some of the appeal that the service is trying to
market.

------
sandworm
I'm no stickler for grammar, but if you are running a website for a service
claiming to pride itself on luxury and detail, then...

"You never need to share the car strangers and we can pick you up and drop you
off at your front door. [double asterisk] "

And the [double asterisk] means you need to book the flight 48 hours in
advance if you want the car as backup. That would preclude any crowd-sourced
flights via their app. Lol. So much for chopper-uber.

------
frenchman_in_ny
"Promotion rate flights are for first time flyers only and limted to a single
use. Other terms and conditions may apply."

So what's the standard rate?

~~~
prawn
$199-219 depending on airport and time of day.

------
catusia
I like to pay attention to how much attention they pay to small details, like
their copy.

Under "Our Promise to You": "You never need to share the car [?] strangers
[...]"

Then, on the footnote to that same section: " __Ground travel guarantee
available for _tavel_ to JFK & EWR for travel booked [...]"

------
droob
The big weird variable time buffer required at the airport would seem to wipe
out the time you gain, right? Or, at least, what's an extra half hour when
you're on the hook for two hours of security and waiting, followed by a
couple-hour flight, followed by another hour of transit on the arrival side?

~~~
dogma1138
since the helipad is usually inside the airports flight area you are already
per-cleared at the embarkation point so as long as the helicopter makes no
stops on the way you won't have to do anything at the airport.

This is very similar to how private charters operate at commercial airports
they have their own security checks which are usually much much more lax than
the commercial passengers.

Some airport shuttles (in some countries) also allow you to do a security
precheck and to turn in your luggage prior to even reaching the airport.

------
italophil
I hope this ends better than New York Airways, which offered similar services
in '60-'70 and went bankrupt after two deadly accidents.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Airways](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Airways)

------
robk
This makes sense for business travellers if you need to get to JFK for a
flight at say 6pm on a weekday. Traffic then is easily 1.5 hours and the
variability is too high to comfortably rely on it. If it means an extra hour
or two of meetings for that consistency in getting to the airport, seems
easily worth the cost of a limo to the airport.

As a side note these things are like venture debt - they seem to only work in
boom times. Every time there is a tightening in the financial markets these
businesses tend to fold, as in US Helicopter, NY Airways, et al. Bubblicious!

------
jessaustin
I was imagining a zipline...

------
leroy_masochist
I once ran into a squad-mate from The Basic School in a bar in Sneads Ferry
NC. He had since become a CH-53 pilot, and that night he was pretty deep into
the beers. At one point he made a comment that I remember verbatim because it
stuck with me: "Think of a helicopter as 100,000 moving parts competing with
each other to be the first one to break."

You guys can take the helo, I'll be fine leaving extra early for the airport
and possibly sitting in traffic :)

------
nness
Perhaps unrelated, but the gothamair.com is blocked by McAfee's proxy
(corporate environments, sigh). Medium risk of phishing is the justification
given...

------
jasonjei
Are there any security risks? Aside from air safety risks? I just wonder if
body scanning/x-ray/metal detector is required for this sort of thing.

~~~
frenchman_in_ny
Generally no; you'll go through the usual security check prior to boarding a
flight at the airport, however.

------
coin
Questionable website, clicking on "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS" on an iPad
(Safari iOS 8.1.2) does nothing. Hopefully the helicopters are better.

~~~
mtbcoder
I noticed that as well. I also received a blank page until a few refreshes
eventually loaded the page. Oddly, all the HTML of the site is loaded via
Javascript.

------
cauterized
Too bad externalities aren't included in the price. There's already far too
much painfully loud helicopter traffic over Brooklyn as it is.

------
dr_
The bigger issue is where does it actually take off from, and how long would
it take you to get to the departure site?

------
somberi
I think 3 hours is an exaggeration. From LGA to Columbia University (The north
end of Upper West side of Manhattan) by M60 bus route takes 45 minutes (as of
Google maps at 6am today) and the worst I have had is 90 minutes. And the cost
of bus ride is a little over 2$. The distance is approximately 8 miles
(13Kms).

------
slantedview
A fleet of Teslas? Not that this isn't a cool idea, but it's still a joke,
right?

------
joopxiv
I don't really understand why you would build an app for this. Apps are great
when you need to do something while you're on the move. Booking a helicopter
48 hours in advance doesn't really fall into that category.

------
ilzmastr
Slightly cheaper than cab fare+tip from Manhattan to Newark, but ~40 mins
faster. Then again you still have to get through financial district to the
helipad...

Still not as good as having a private helicopter. I hear NYC to PHL is 30 mins
by heli.

~~~
qq66
> I hear NYC to PHL is 30 mins by heli.

Doubtful, unless you're in some kind of military helicopter. NYC to PHL is
close to 100 miles, no helicopters go 200 miles per hour.

------
johnchristopher
There's a missing `with` at the bottom of the last paragraph of the landing
page:

> You never need to share the car strangers and we can pick you up and drop
> you off at your front door. __

------
wyager
I would absolutely pay for this. It's only about $20-30 more than a taxi
(after tip) or about $40 more than an Uber. I'd pay that much for an hour or
two less travel time.

------
drewmate
So how does this work? Does the helicopter pick you up from your office
building? Or do you have to go to their central terminal?

~~~
krschultz
There are at least 3 heliports in the city. There is one no the East River at
34th ST, and one on the Hudson at 30th st. There is also one in battery park
that I think is more of a tourist flight spot.

I live near the 34th street one, and I am amazed by the number of people that
use them during rush hour on weekdays. There might be 50-100 people that
commute by helicopter into the city each day at that heliport. That's
certainly more than I would have expected.

~~~
epc
For Battery Park you're thinking of the Wall St heliport (JRB). Mostly Wall
Street types but there's also several tourist flights. The noise from this
heliport on the Brooklyn side can be unbelievable in the summer.

The 30th St heliport is due to close...at some point due to its location in
Hudson River Park but I suspect there will be some sort of negotiated solution
to relocate it.

------
jrockway
Weird. I looked at prices for helicopter charter recently, and it's usually
$1000 to JFK/LGA/EWR from downtown.

~~~
imjk
This is a one-time promotional rate for first-time customers and requires 4
passengers.

------
spitfire
Typo:

You never need to share the car strangers and we can....

------
mandeepj
gothamair is contradicting itself.

On top they are saying "Call your friends or meet some new ones on board."

At the Tesla section, they are saying - "You never need to share the car
strangers". Although there is a typo here (missing 'with')

~~~
corin_
Their claim is that you will share the helicopter rides, however in bad
weather you will get a private car without needing to share. Because cars are
cheap enough that they can afford to do that (compared to helicopters).

------
j_lev
I assume they are still profitable up to $100/barrel oil.

------
tn13
Does it still require me to go through the security theater ?

------
ehosca
what a time to be alive. i wonder if i can customize my ride by having an
Arnold look-alike yell "get in the choppa" as i'm boarding it?

------
nhayden
>You never need to share the car strangers

Typo here, just FYI

~~~
kuny
also, copyright year 2014 and "limted to a single use" wants an i

------
tptacek
This can't possibly be real.

~~~
lanstein
Based on the prices here: [http://www.heliny.com/](http://www.heliny.com/)

it's plausible, since only the first ride is $99. Travel time is correct too:

[http://www.newyorkhelicopter.com/airport-
transfers/](http://www.newyorkhelicopter.com/airport-transfers/)

------
goeric
Surf Air for helicopters!

------
mathattack
This is an unfortunate sign that Manhattan is turning into Sao Paulo or Hong
Kong.

~~~
ghaff
Nothing new about it. Way back when, Pan Am offered "free" helicopter service
into the city for first class passengers. (Originally to the heliport on the
roof of the Pan Am building until that was banned following an accident.)

JFK is a ways out. Newark is much less of a big deal because there's good
train service between that airport and Penn Station.

------
carlaldrich
LIRR to JFK from Penn takes about 20 minutes and only costs a few dollars!

------
spiritplumber
Unfortunately it requires me to get on something that is kept aloft by an
extremely complex collection of moving parts that twist, wibble and vibrate.
And doesn't glide.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9c4I3nRIFA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9c4I3nRIFA)
(Explained by the same guy who explains the differential in that old
instructional video)

~~~
aqme28
I'm curious, is it more or less dangerous than driving a car over the same
distance?

~~~
mikeash
I don't have the statistics at hand, but I'd say it's likely more. The
remarkable safety of airliners doesn't extend to smaller aircraft.

~~~
dogma1138
It actually does, the problem is that the same restrictions do not apply.

A very large amount of private aircraft related accidents happen because of
extreme conditions in which a commercial airliner would have not been flying
under in any case. Privately owned aircraft also tend to be much less well
maintained and their pilots have considerably fewer flight hours than big or
small commercial aircraft.

This is when "safety" takes a backseat to private ownership and
responsibility, it's not because smaller aircraft are inherently less safe.

When embark on a private flight in a private aircraft there's virtually almost
no circumstances in which you will not be cleared off for take off. Not to
mention that anything upto a small jet can does take of from any sufficiently
long patch of dirt rather than a fully staffed airport with ground crew that
services and clears the aircraft.

If these guys will follow the same rules there is nothing much more inherently
unsafe in being in a smaller or a rotary wing aircraft than in a brand new
747-800.

If you apply napkin calculations you can also make it sound that military
aircraft are much more less safe than civilian ones, even in such cases in
which they are the exact same aircraft in a different color scheme. It's not
that the aircraft is less safe it's that the conditions it operates under are
inherently more dangerous both in peace time and war.

~~~
mikeash
First of all, you can't just mention a bunch of ways in which smaller aircraft
are unsafe and then declare that they somehow don't count. If pilot experience
and currency is a big factor for why small planes are more dangerous (and it
most certainly is), then it's just a factor for why small planes are more
dangerous, not some way that small planes aren't more dangerous.

For this specific service, there are a couple of things that do make it
inherently less safe than being in a brand new 747-800. Specifically, there's
much less redundancy and fewer emergency options for when something goes
wrong. If you lose an engine on a 747 then you just keep going. If you lose an
engine, or rather _the_ engine, on a Manhattan-JFK helicopter flight then
you're going down extremely fast and you have few or no good options for where
to put the thing. It's similar for suddenly encountering a flock of geese (the
odds of a safe landing in the river with a 100% survival rate are considerably
lower with a helicopter than with an A320), fuel exhaustion, or a sudden pilot
heart attack (I'm guessing there aren't two pilots in these things).

Mid-air collisions are another potential danger. I'm guessing that a
helicopter like this doesn't have a TCAS system, and not all of the airspace
in question requires ATC clearance. Nine people died in a helicopter/airplane
collision in NYC in 2009, and it could happen again.

I don't mean to paint an excessively bleak picture here. I'd have no qualms
about taking a flight on one of these helicopters, aside from the price. But
at the same time we shouldn't kid ourselves by thinking that it's safer than
taking a car, let alone as safe as an airliner.

~~~
neurotech1
If these helicopters are FAR Part 135 they'd likely have TCAS. Glass cockpit
helicopters flown by commercial pilots are quite likely safer than driving.

Also, a skilled pilot can autorotate a Bell 407 without damage or injury. In
fact, it would be easier than ditching a A320.

A friend of mine had a near mid-air in a Bell 407 over a city, flying between
buildings, due to the other helicopter operating on an IFR clearance below
authorized IFR altitude, shortly after takeoff. Luckily, this particular Bell
407 had EVS(Enhanced Vision System) FLIR (Forward Looking InfraRed) and they
were able to descend hard and passed under "IFR" helicopter. The FAA busted
the other pilot for failing to set their transponder correctly, and failing to
maintain proper lookout, among other things.

~~~
mikeash
Oh nice, I didn't realize TCAS was available there.

As for autorotation, my worry isn't so much the procedure (although it sounds
much trickier than a gliding landing in an airplane) but the fact that you
don't get much horizontal maneuvering and there aren't many good places to
land in a dense city, and the fact that there are many single points of
failure that make it much more likely to happen.

