
How I resurrected my MacBook Pro by putting it in the oven - alesdotio
http://ales.io/2014/03/09/how-to-bake-a-mac.html
======
mgkimsal
"with people having apparently similar but in reality completely unrelated
problems"

Not sure what he was reading - this is a known problem with at least many
early 2011 MBP - I had one (still do - it's in the closet). Apple is refusing
to acknowledge this as a problem, and will offer to replace the motherboard
(or something like that) for ... $300 and approximately 5 business days.

From what I've read, whatever they replace doesn't actually do the trick; by
many accounts, even when you drop it off for repair, they've claimed to not be
able to reproduce the problem. Hint: use the external video chip, or force a
use of it.

FWIW, if you're in the triangle area, sixrig.com gives _really_ good service,
and got me a new refurb laptop the day after xmas at 9pm at night.

Source: apple forums and [http://mbp2011.com](http://mbp2011.com)

~~~
johnchristopher
> Source: apple forums and [http://mbp2011.com](http://mbp2011.com)

Wow: “The problem might be on the GPU” Said the “Genius”. That’s exactly what
I was hoping to hear (he didn’t mentioned this until I pushed them this far.)
So I replied, “You all knew exactly what’s going on here and you intentionally
kept this from the customers, right?” Right this moment, the “Genius” has
left.

That's insane.

~~~
slantyyz
There's a lot of variability these stories in terms of how you're treated by a
Genius when you take your computer in. When I took my problematic 2011 MBP in,
they pretty quickly determined that it was a motherboard issue and replaced
it.

Two months after my motherboard was replaced the video glitches started
appearing again.

Coincidentally (or not?) it happens that I use Coda every day, and Coda forced
Macs (inadvertently, apparently -- Panic used Apple's guidelines on how to
implement this "gracefully", but Apple's flag was buggy) to use the discrete
card all the time.

Interestingly enough, once Panic disabled the 'use discrete gpu' flag in Coda,
my screen glitch problems basically went away on my new motherboard.

~~~
kevinchen
Graphics switching on dual-GPU Macs used to require you to log out when you
changed the GPU. They never quite got the automatic switching right but it's
much better on the current generation. I very rarely see random red-and-white
checkerboard patterns flash on the screen.

------
Pitarou
Do NOT try this with a microwave oven.

If you do, there will be a bad smell, and lots of sounds and lights, and you
will not read Hacker News today.

~~~
rizalp
Sorry, but why?

Why it is bad to do this with Microwave Oven rather than conventional oven?

~~~
mikeash
Microwaves interact with metal in interesting ways. It will likely induce high
voltages in the computer's wiring, causing the chips to release all of their
magic smoke.

~~~
larrys
I grew up in a time when microwave ovens were first released. As such the very
first thing you learned is no metal in the microwave oven.

I'm wondering if people who are younger somehow think of this differently or
aren't automatically taught the same thing. I mean it seems so obvious (to me)
that I wouldn't even think to point it out to someone actually. It's like
saying "don't let the car run over you" or "don't play catch with the laptop".

~~~
gohrt
This is entirely not true. When microwaves were first released, they were so
low powered that microwave cookbooks gave advice like "wrap the edges of the
chickin in foil".

[http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281275232630?lpid=82](http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281275232630?lpid=82)

Also, most microwaves have a large metal rack inside them.

Only certain configurations of metal are dangerous in a modern microwave. A
computer has those, though.

[http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/08/why-you-
gene...](http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/08/why-you-generally-
shouldnt-put-metals-in-the-microwave/)

~~~
mikeash
I don't think "most" microwaves have a metal rack, although they're not
uncommon.

It's also not uncommon to see microwave-safe food containers that contain
metal. I've seen grocery store deli soups, for example, that end up with a big
ring of metal around the top when you open them, but can still be microwaved.

Still, "no metal" is a good approximation. "Unless it says you can use it" is
probably OK to leave implied.

~~~
larrys
I've seen that as well. I'm wondering (from my own experiment) if it has
something to do with angles vs. no angles [1] in terms of the metal in
addition to the blocking by metal of the actual microwaves.

[1] Same as with stealth airplanes avoiding radar, right?

~~~
beachstartup
microwaves induce a current in metal. if there's a gap for that current to
jump, you'll see it jump, and it'll probably cause problems including fire,
but if there's no gap to jump, all that voltage potential just stays in the
metal.

put a table spoon in the microwave and turn it on - nothing happens. i do this
all the time when reheating soup.

i've won money on small bets like this too. non-technical people have no idea
WHY metal poses a problem in the microwave, so i just bet them $10 that i can
put a spoon in there without problems and they never believe me. they just
think i have special spoons.

~~~
larrys
Preface for anyone reading this: I don't have any technical degree only what I
have picked up over time. That said:

So in terms of the instructions "wrap the chicken" assuming the chicken were
wrapped in a way that there was no crunchiness that produced metal gaps then
it would merely block the chicken from cooking in the area wrapped, right? So
in theory a nice idea but in practice people slap on the tin foil and then you
have sparking? Hence "no metal in microwave" is really simply not being able
to rely that the general public using the product will know the nuances (which
makes sense). (Human behavior is something that I do know quite a bit about..)

Maybe you've done this one: You take a glass of water in pyrex (or coffee cup)
and heat it just until it is ready to boil. Then you put a spoon or other
object in and it explodes. Because apparently (I think..) breaking the surface
tension is the issue (which can be done with anything if you don't remove
carefully and shake a bit it will also happen).

Another thing that I've noticed is that water obviously boils at different
times depending on the humidity in the room (I'm non technical enough to think
that I figured that one out but feel free to correct me..)

~~~
prewett
I think that water in a microwave can get super-heated (hotter than 100C) if
the surface is smooth, or there are no more little air bubbles to start the
boiling. Then, when you put something in, it gives a surface for bubbles that
are desperate to form something to form on, and they all do it at once.

I had a spectacular explosion with my glass teapot one time. The microwave at
work was in a different room, so I would heat up the water to boiling, and
then not hear the bell, so some time later I'd remember, and do it again.
Apparently reheating causes the bubbles to basically get used up so there
wasn't anything to start the boiling. So the third time I was standing there
waiting so I wouldn't forget, and suddenly I hear a BOOM and the pot was half
empty with a lot of water outside. I think there was just one giant bubble
that eventually formed and blew everything out. (The pot was unharmed)

------
jonmrodriguez
How does this work? Is the idea that there's a loose chip, and you're
reflowing the solder to re-attach it?

Relatedly, one of my friends successfully revived a bricked playstation by
heating up the motherboard with a heat gun.

~~~
jmpe
This sounds like a BGA issue. They also had the on PS3/4 and XBox if I'm not
mistaking.

The chip has a grid of small solder balls on the bottom instead of pins
sticking out. Due to thermal differences during operation some rows can
experience mechanical stress due to uneven heating of the device. When there
are cracks the contact disconnects from the board. Some images here:

[http://www.playbackups.com/Playstation3-xbox-360-repair-
repa...](http://www.playbackups.com/Playstation3-xbox-360-repair-repairs-
manchester-bga-solder.html)

When it's cooled again the contacts join, placing it in the oven applies an
even thermal load across the entire board and you basically anneal the cracks.

~~~
danmatan
And from a manufacturing/engineering point-of-view (which I am neither), I
guess it's really hard to solve this problem.

You have some unpredictable 1/100 or 1/1000 defect that occurs long after
production and sale.

Just how do you go about isolating the cause, and testing a solution? Make 5
changes, and put through a production batch of 1000 units, and then do
accelerated testing? If 5 fail from one batch, and 2 from the rest, is there
even enough statistical power to confirm that you've come across a solution?
And you just burned through 5000 units.

Sounds like fun trying to solve this kind of problem.

~~~
jmpe
There are PCB design/layout rules that deal with BGA. I'm not saying it's a
100% guarantee, but (much like EMC/EMI design rules) there are a lot of solid
pointers that remove 90% of the issues. The remaining 10% are (again, much
like EMC/EMI) subject to the layouter's level of experience.

Currently on mobile, can't link a PDF right now but if you Google " BGA PCB
layout guidelines" you'll get a ton of documents.

Lastly: PCBs go through several optimization cycles, some occur after release
for high volume stuff. There are always revision numbers of the silkscreen,
sometimes they catch an issue like this after x1000 devices in the wild and do
an update.

------
eterpstra
Similar story: I was at a friend's house, and we wanted to play Nintendo Wii.
Tried to turn it on, but nothing happened. My buddy grabbed the power brick,
tossed it in the microwave, and blasted it for 3 seconds. After plugging it
back in, it started like nothing was wrong. I was flabbergasted (one: because
WTF! who puts a power supply in a microwave? and two: OMG! it worked!)

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Stupid Wii power supplies, these are known to be pieces of junk. I keep a
spare for this reason. Simply letting it "rest" unconnected for some unknown
duration also does the trick.

~~~
outworlder
That's probably an open polyfuse. Unlike the fuses of old, the new ones
actually regenerate themselves (re-crystallize).

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
That is a good idea. I should have thought of that. Thanks.

------
watson
For anyone interested in the nerdy details of why this works:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_soldering](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_soldering)

Anyway, this isn't new - I remember seeing this on Slashdot, HN and a lot
ofter other places over the years:

[http://voices.yahoo.com/how-reflow-laptop-motherboard-
oven-6...](http://voices.yahoo.com/how-reflow-laptop-motherboard-
oven-6784790.html)

[http://mr-mediocre.hubpages.com/hub/How-Baking-A-Motherboard...](http://mr-
mediocre.hubpages.com/hub/How-Baking-A-Motherboard-in-the-Oven-Worked-for-Me)

etc...

------
Kliment
You might want to get rid of that Vertex 2 as soon as reasonably possible. It
has an issue where at some point when switched on or resumed from sleep it
will corrupt all your data and refuse to boot. Some have a different bug where
it will silently corrupt some of your data and the only way to find out is by
the HDD light being on for longer than usual. Back up your data and get rid of
it. I had it happen to me twice (warranty replacement after the first one, but
then second one did it too). OCZ died as a result of this. Save yourself
before it's too late.

~~~
bananas
+1 for that.

Had exactly the same trouble. Moved to Samsung 840 Pro since - everything
works just fine.

~~~
slantyyz
I had one Vertex 2 just up and die, but another one is still going strong on
Macbook, but that one's just for surfing, so it's not critical if I experience
a catastrophic data loss.

Will have to agree with you, the 840 Pro's are great.

------
nichodges
Reminds me of my first Raspberry Pi. It was from the first batch, and only
worked if I gave it a blast with a hairdryer. Once it warmed up it booted
fine, but if I turned off the hairdryer it would turn off after about 30
seconds.

At the time it was about a month wait for a new one to arrive, so I did a lot
of initial Pi discovery with a hairdryer.

~~~
stinos
Tried it on mine, no luck. Basically it didn't run properly because the
resistance of the fuse was ridiculously high resulting in a voltage drop of
almost 1V. Meaning I had to power it with a 6.5V power supply. Well, you don't
find those easily so I just got rid of the fuse.

------
ripa
This is a known method for fixing this type of problem where the solder has
been damaged due to excess heat and/or improper cooling from the start. It's
also known that this is most likely a temporary fix where it will fail again
in a couple of months (depending on the usage etc.).

This is also why I would take great caution purchasing a used laptop
(especially with a discrete graphics card). It's a real risk that the previous
user did this trick to quickly sell it while it's "working".

As an owner of a 2011 Macbook Pro with AMD graphics (known to fail) I sure
hope that Apple acknowledges this issue soon.

------
downplay
I have a friend, that lived in a dodgy part of town. And the day he bought his
new Powerbook, he hid it in the oven before he left the house.

Sadly after a visit to the pub, he thought pizza would be a good idea and
preheated the oven. Only to suddenly realise his new computer was inside it.

He rescued and cooled it, and oddly, it survived! Only it had shelf marks
permanently moulded into the chassis forever more.

~~~
sgt
"that lived in a dodgy part of town."

^ How is this relevant to your story?

~~~
pgeorgi
I read that as an explanation for the "hide notebooks in the oven" thing.

------
tomwhipple
See also
[http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4088?viewlocale=en_US&locale=e...](http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4088?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US)

I printed the article, the GPU kernel panic log and took them to the Genius
bar. Apple replaced the mainboard for free, more than 3 years after the
purchase.

It took me more than a year of dealing with random crashes and several visits
to the genius bar before I found this article.

Though the downside is that you'd miss the excitement described here...

~~~
Neeo
I have searched the definition of existence out of this issue but have never
found this article, if I had just seen this article before the 3 year mark.
But I have already solved the issue by installing Linux and not installing the
Nvidia driver. I will buy a new laptop soon anyways, but I will still run
Linux tough. I will try OP's method when I get a new laptop.

------
kkl232
Hilarious!!

At some point I spilled water all over my MacbookPro and I turned it off and
let it dry overnight. The next morning it refused to turn on. I took it to
Apple and they say they must send it to repairs for 750 dollars!!

I refused to pay money, went home, asked some friends about it, and concluded
that I should put my computer in an inverted position like a teepee.

I let it sit for 2 days. And Voila! Good as new!

~~~
josephjrobison
Same exact thing happened to me! Brand new hot starbucks green tea spilled all
over my 4 month old MacBook Air mid-2013. I was devastated. Stupidly I tried
to turn it on right after the spill and it turned on for a moment then shut
off and wouldn't turn on again. I put the keyboard face down on paper towels
and indirectly in front of a fan for a few days and it came back to life! I
now have a keyboard spill guard of course...

------
danmatan
I recall some years ago (7?), some other mac having some characteristic issue
that could almost always be fixed with a little time in the oven.

Having a kitchen with an oven and living in a student area where Apple
products were popular, I sensed a business opportunity.

I put up an ad on some local classifieds with a lowball price for these units
(but not much different than what the broken ones would sell for on Ebay,
minus the hassle). I quickly learned that, after investing in a premium
product, people would rather hold onto their brick rather than turn it into at
least some cash. I never even got a chance to try out the procedure, people
would counter-offer with ridiculous prices for, what is for them, a brick.

The sunk cost fallacy at work.

edit: I think I even offered pickup and some data recovery/security as a part
of the offer, no takers.

------
unicornporn
Remember that there might be a law in your country that regulates complaints.

In Sweden we have "reklamationstid"[1] which gives you sort of a legislated
warranty (applies to almost all goods) for three years. All goods that I have
complained about using "reklamationstiden" have been replaced.

[1]
[http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&h...](http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.konsumentverket.se/mobil/Din-
ratt-som-konsument/Reklamera-och-
klaga/&usg=ALkJrhh34gx7-dXD27hTnEIGRK1VK2Oa2w)

~~~
danmatan
Is it common to have your replacement/repair refused unless you bring up the
"reklamationstiden" argument?

~~~
unicornporn
Yes, many people don't know about this law. The shops know this and takes
advantage of it. Of course there is also the manufacturer's warranty, which
lasts for as long as the manufacturer decides.

~~~
oneeyedpigeon
Why have that law, and then make it legal for the shops to not acknowledge it
up front? Why does the law have to be some weird kind of game where only
people in the know benefit from it?

------
btoptical
I think this process is really baking out moisture as the PCBA is not in the
oven long enough to get to temperature and the temperature is not hot enough
to reflow the solder.

Most of the components on the board are not hermetically packaged and there
probably are moisture sensitive parts on the PCBA. So the baking at 170C for 7
minutes is essentially a drying process.

Also, I think Apple probably has to be ROHS compliant and that means they have
to use lead-free TnSn solder. The transition temperature for lead-free solder
is typically about 20C higher than normal leaded solders.

------
Munksgaard
I've done this twice on different laptops. It works like a charm :)

The explanation I got when I did it the first time was this: When the computer
heats up and gets cold a lot, over time the solder joints on the motherboard
might "crack", or something, effectively giving loose conncetions. By heating
the joints in this controlled manner, the metal melts and solidifies properly
when cooled down.

------
kakoni
So, first reflow your motherboard, then bake some bread, get all those toxic
flavours in? (Wondering if this would somehow ruin your oven..)

~~~
q3k
Actually, a lot of electronics from this era failed because they manufacturers
were still experimenting with RoHS (read: no lead) electronics production,
especially lead-free solder.

While heating a RoHS PCB in a food oven might still be kinda toxic, at least
it's lead-free ;).

------
caycep
This is due to failure of the ball grid array solder, I'm assuming? Most of
what I've seen has been due to failure of the video card - I think the nvidia
ones were notorious on certain models, but I've had it happen on my 2009 iMac
with a radeon card.

Sort of what sold me on integrated GPU's as being the ideal in these form
factors - less parts to blow up in your face....

~~~
nobleach
I can confirm that my 2008 iMac had this same problem with the nVidia card.
And yes, cooking it in the oven did bring it back long enough to grab the few
items that I wanted. At the time, I read that it had to do with Apple
switching to lead free solder. Sad to know I may face this with the 2011 MBP
that I am typing this on (and I love so dearly)

~~~
caycep
fortunately, I had my mac setup with ssh enabled...so I was able to rsync it
off to another computer off network. (Who needs graphics anyway?)

Apple support, to their credit, handled my case extremely well, even though I
was out of warranty.

------
rekwah
Reminds me of the Xbox 360 "towel trick" tutorials for combating RROD back on
the original models.

------
mncolinlee
This is a hackish form of "Reflow Soldering."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_soldering](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_soldering)

I used to work at Cray, the supercomputer company. Back in the 1970s, 30 yrs
before I got there, they used to solder the circuits on each board by baking
the entire board in an actual kitchen oven. With smaller and more delicate
circuitry on mainboards these days, this is less practical and more dangerous,
but that doesn't mean it isn't still possible with some degree of luck. I'd
still recommend removing the BIOS battery if you're crazy enough to attempt
this.

------
null_ptr
It makes me sad to read how some mistreat their laptops. Why keep it on 24/7?
Even if you're using your computer 12 hours a day you're letting it burn for
nothing for the other 12! And then you buy a new one every year.

~~~
sneak
Burn what, precisely? It's not a woodstove.

------
martydill
This has been an issue as far back as a decade ago with G3 iBooks. I had my G3
800's logic board replaced twice under warranty, but it failed again after
that. The 'hot coin on the gpu' trick solved the problem, albeit temporarily.

[http://forums.macnn.com/69/mac-notebooks/210232/diy-ibook-
du...](http://forums.macnn.com/69/mac-notebooks/210232/diy-ibook-dual-usb-
logic-board/)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBook#Quality_issues](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBook#Quality_issues)

------
Edmond
Some of these weird hardware fixes are due to manufacturers using adhesive.

I believe Creative (creative.com) for instance intentionally uses adhesives
that ware out after a certain period.

This would cause your product to stop working, I did a writeup on fixing their
MP3 players some years back : [http://vistev.blogspot.com/2010/02/harware-fix-
for-creative-...](http://vistev.blogspot.com/2010/02/harware-fix-for-creative-
zen.html)

Now merely hitting the device or doing some other crazy stuff may cause the
necessary components to align and viola things work :)

------
zz1
Same procedure done by Mio Cugino, but way more accurate! :)
[http://www.miocugino.com/macbook-
resuscitato/](http://www.miocugino.com/macbook-resuscitato/)

~~~
gus_massa
Autotranlation:
[http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=...](http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miocugino.com%2Fmacbook-
resuscitato%2F&sandbox=1)

------
quackerhacker
I gotta say, I would've never thought of baking the motherboard. Makes sense
in regards to overclocking and as the op stated, he constantly ran his MBP.
Baking, I guess, would kinda resolder connections...total guess.

My recommendation, I repair devices all the time now, after you remove all the
little screws and the piece you need (like a motherboard or pcb), take the
time and put every screw in the hole it came out of. Trick I learned as a
mechanic. It helps prevents losing them and guessing, since sometimes screw
threads and height vary.

~~~
gus_massa
I usually make a map of the board and use masking tape to fix the screw to the
map.

~~~
quackerhacker
Yeah, if I'm running a fast fix (like pull a battery, ect.) I'll usually
arrange the screws in an orientation to how I pulled them out, but long fixes
like the op had (or when your waiting for parts)... I put the back in.

Not a bad idea with the masking tape, guess a magnet would work too.

------
benburton
> leave it in there for precisely around 7 minutes

Nice.

------
D9u
I had a somewhat similar issue with an Acer Aspire Aspire One ZG5 netbook,
except my problem was that the device would power off after about 1.5 minutes
from powering on.

Apparently a thermal cutoff switch needed some recalibration/replacement, so
my fix was 2 hours in the freezer followed by a few more hours waiting for
condensation to evaporate before attempting to power the netbook on again...

I used the above method for nearly a year before acquiring my present laptop,
relegating the netbook to my growing pile of disfunctional hardware.

------
jonmrodriguez
If you use a temperature hot enough for reflow (200C or more, according to
andyjohnson0), is there any risk of heavy components on the bottom side
falling off?

~~~
benjamincburns
Except for extreme cases, no. The cohesive force of molten solder is more than
enough to hold your components in place. Also interestingly enough, this is
also what causes surface mount components to automagically "settle" over their
pads when you have the proper amount of solder/flux.

------
greyskull
This was a "well-known" (quoted because it's well known as far as enthusiast
communities are concerned) fix attempt for discrete GPU cards on desktops.
I've seen a lot of success stories where old GPUs (think GTX 8800) would crap
out; owner would take off the shroud, heatsink, and any other removable parts,
put it in the oven for a few minutes, and boom, reflowed solder fixed the
issue.

------
kator
There are chips on both sides of this board, is there a chance you could re-
flow them off because of gravity on the other side of the board?

------
enscr
Dealt with similar issue with HP tx2000 (HP is a horrible company that refuses
to acknowledge a problem that has plagued their entire series). I removed the
processor, applied fresh thermal paste with a copper shim & gave it the oven +
hair dryer treatment. It worked for a while but failed again. Not worth
wasting time on it. It's better to ebay it for parts.

~~~
jcd748
I used to have an HP with this problem as well. Eventually I managed to get my
files off the computer, and then promptly bought a new, not-an-HP laptop.
Never again.

------
MobsterMac
There is a huge uprising about Mac Book Pro's motherboard's failing. I wonder
if this would work for the issues described here.
[https://discussions.apple.com/message/25163418?ac_cid=tw1234...](https://discussions.apple.com/message/25163418?ac_cid=tw123456#25163418)

------
ninive
Did it too successfully 3 years ago with my Acer laptop. It worked but as
you're saying, didn't lasted so much. Anyway was pretty cool ;) Pic here:
[http://imgur.com/iDaYpBD](http://imgur.com/iDaYpBD)

------
michaelchum
This is astonishing... But anyone else feels like this sounds like trolling?
There is no actual video, but only pictures. And perhaps, maybe it's just me,
but I don't see how high heat can resurrect the logic board?

------
fakename
I had ram slots die in my mbp due to warping. the solution was to loosen the
screws around the ram slots, letting the bent board unbend. I imagine cooking
would soften things up and allow loose connections to better connect.

------
epx
I used a Sterilair (a small heater that supposedly cleans the air) to
ressurect a Sony camera. It also stopped working with no obvious reason, I
suspected of humidity and left it hung about 30cm above the heater for one
day.

------
mmastrac
I resurrected my old 2009 Macbook Pro that was doing something similar by
turning it on and putting it under a blanket for an hour. It generated enough
heat to reflow whatever BGA had busted and has worked perfectly since.

------
bcl
Sounds like tin (solder) whiskers:

[http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/index.htm](http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/index.htm)

------
pyed
I had the same issue on early 2011, fixed it for 600$+ because I'm not in the
US, and sold it for 768$ and got the new Retina with hate.

------
nviennot
That reminds me of
[http://viennot.biz/reflow_oven.pdf](http://viennot.biz/reflow_oven.pdf)

------
shocks
I have done this with a handful of Xbox 360s. Works like a charm! Also makes
for some interesting questions from your housemates...

------
grandalf
If it's reflowing then couldn't the same be accomplished with more focused
application of a heat gun?

------
dleibovic
Is there any cause for concern about toxic chemicals being released into an
oven that you use to cook food?

------
furyg3
> For a perfectly golden and crunchy crust make sure you leave it in there for
> precisely around 7 minutes.

Comedy gold.

------
steeve
Or you can use a hot air gun if you have one. Reflowing does work wonders.

~~~
DanBC
Be careful not to use vigorous airspeed. It's possible to blow balls of solder
away from the pads. These then cause shorts and are annoying to fault find and
repair.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Huh? The solder balls are under the chip sandwiched between the IC and the
PCB. There is no direct contact with the hot air.

~~~
DanBC
Yes, on a BGA the pads are under the IC package. That BGA will be on a PCB
close to other ICs which has other packages. Using a hot airgun risks
distributing small balls of solder.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
If you can accidentally create solder-bridges with a hot-air rework, then
there was too much solder; even if you're talking about fine-pitch TQFP's.
I've accidentally made bridges using QFN's but only on crappy homemade PCB's
and again, with too much solder. It is usually easy to correct. You can
dislodge nearby capacitors, diodes, resistors, etc. but that's about it.

On a good PCB that's been cleaned properly there won't be any errant solder-
balls, and surface tension will not allow them to form even when using a hot-
air gun or rework tool. I've never seen a hot-air tool that blows with enough
force to overcome the surface tension of the solder.

I _have_ managed to get make a mess with solder when removing IC's using
_compressed_ air (not for the faint of heart), but that's a different story
and it is still easy to clean up.

~~~
DanBC
You're talking about people who know what they're doing, using correct hot air
rework tools.

I'm talking about people who don't know what they're doing using paint-
stripper style hot air guns.

I have seen faulty PCBs caused by people using that style of hot air gun to
rework devices. I used to have photographs but don't have them any longer, but
there should be photos in some of the "soldering problems" engineering books.

------
auctiontheory
This gives "cooking the books" a whole new meaning.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
Nicely done. Best quip I've read on HN today.

------
mjt0229
One thing that I love to make is mac & cheese.

------
mmariani
My MBP17 died one week ago. Way to go Apple!

------
netcan
Rise again from the ashes.

------
WildUtah
I once had a Toshiba laptop that would work only after spending twenty minutes
in the freezer, and then only until it warmed up.

I don't think it had the same problem as this MacBook, though.

~~~
werid
That sounds like the old harddrive trick where a harddrive refuses to start
until it's cold enough.

~~~
yardie
I unbroke an iPod 5G by slamming it into my desk fairly hard. That was about 3
years ago and it's still working. Something about the HDD bearings seizing
because of shock.

I have a Seagate HDD in the freezer for 2 years now. Every method of recovery
I've used has been unsuccessful. I'm waiting to send it into a recovery
service, and $1500+ that I haven't got lying around.

~~~
specialist
While doing desktop support, one of my Mac user's hard drive was failing,
wouldn't spin up at boot. So you had to help spin it up. One trick was to give
the HDD housing a rotation jerk the moment you turn on power. Another was to
use a pencil eraser to spin the exposed spindle, also during power on.

Good times.

~~~
yardie
I've talked to a few recovery experts. They told me taking the cover off
destroys the drive. Apparantly the head has some tracks embedded in the cover.
If it's not removed in a certain way you can rip the entire thing out.

~~~
IbJacked
I don't think he removed the cover. The spindle was was exposed, not the
platters.

------
marincounty
Did not read story, but if it it what I think; HP had the same problem with a
bad nvidia chip, poorly designed cooling system, etc. They denied the problem,
until sued. Meanwhile, desperate users where putting their motherboards in the
oven, curling the hairs in the nvida chip, and sticking pennies on the hot
chip. I will never buy another HP laptop! I'm surprised Apple won't admit to a
problem. I think if Steve was still alive he would admit to the defect and
offer a fix--why?? Because Steve was one of us--he liked his toys, and
expected them to work. A video card problem would have irked the hell out of
home, and his engineers would have to pay for their mistake. What's his name--
Tim Cook--just worries about the books. Which will eventually be Apples fall
from grace.

~~~
mst
> Did not read story

Then please don't comment. This is Hacker News, not slashdot.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
Right. It's not like the story was War and Peace. Not even the Cliff's Notes
of War and Peace. It took about a minute for me to read, including time
looking at the pictures.

