
How Uber could end up as Silicon Valley's most spectacular crash - dannylandau
http://www.newsweek.com/uber-turn-silicon-valley-spectacular-crash-563716?rx=us
======
Animats
I've been saying that for a while. _Uber is losing $800 million per quarter._
They run out of cash in 2018 unless they can find a bigger sucker than Saudi
Arabia's sovereign wealth fund. Uber is cheap only because investor capital
subsidizes every ride. (And because they keep squeezing the drivers harder.)

IPO? They'd have to publish audited financial statements with GAAP numbers,
which are almost certain to be worse than the leaked numbers. They'd take a
big haircut on valuation, which the existing investors would not like. (Who
has voting rights in Uber, anyway?)

Uber will probably run out of money and be picked up cheaply by some buyer of
distressed companies, which will raise rates and cut it back to a profitable
operation.

~~~
flylib
Lyft and Juno will run out of cash by the end of this year and be forced to
sell to companies that won't run them at a loss, that Lyft $500 million round
they are trying to shop around won't happen (that leak is a bad sign, early
Lyft investors are dumping their shares on the secondary market as well) and
Uber currently has billions in the bank while Lyft is down to under 1 billion,
Uber will raise prices and no new competitors will be able to find any funding
at this point

~~~
BinaryIdiot
I had no idea Lyft was operating at a loss. My Lift rides are consistently 10%
to 20% higher than Uber rides of the same distance and time and they even
encourage tipping.

I'm not looking forward to what these companies charge when (or if) they're
ever profitable. I already find them expensive, especially Lyft.

~~~
sigmar
>I already find them expensive, especially Lyft.

Expensive compared to what exactly?

~~~
kobeya
Not the person you are replying to, but if I used Uber/Lyft for everything I
normally do with a car, it would be more expensive than owning a car for my
own exclusive use. Even reasonable cutbacks of trips I don't really need to
make if I'm paying per-mile still only get it down to about parity. Uber/Lyft
has the extra cost of paying the driver, but also the supposed cost savings of
sharing vehicle cost across multiple riders. I would expect it to be slightly
cheaper, if it were a sustainable model.

~~~
greenhatman
The driver's pay is really what makes it more expensive. These ride sharing
companies will only really become sustainable once self driving cars become
prevalent. Even if it just allows the car to get to you, and then have you
drive it where you need to go.

I'm not sure what other costs they can cut easily.

Unfortunately for them, second and third players entering the market has a
huge advantage in terms of less spent on development and exploration, because
they had an example to follow. Uber made the way for them, by building the app
first, and testing regulators and authorities.

And there is nothing keeping Uber's user base from using competitors instead.
They should probably have thought about some kind of reward system. Or
anything to make their users invest and want to stay more.

I think they've got big problems. Problems that will be overcome better by
their competitors.

------
lucajona
I don't understand why the media and Silicon Valley seem to be gleefully
awaiting the downfall of Uber. If Uber's business model is not financially
viable then the free market will take care of that. But promoting the view
that their "culture" is "rotten" based on a report from a disgruntled
employee, or saying that their employees are being "exploited" based on one
video from one driver is sanctimonious and vicious. Why is this necessary? The
only answer I can come up with is that there is a political motivation, driven
by neo-Marxism and the narrative that capitalism and big business are
inherently evil.

I'm an Uber user, and I still love the service and the fiercely competitive
way that Uber has transformed what was previously a protected and stagnant
industry delivering poor service.

~~~
rocqua
Blaming this all on ideology is too easy an explanation.

There have been multiple reports by various uber employees (as well as 2
investors according to the OP) of a rotten culture. Add to that the leaks of
taking huge losses, and people are seeing a company that isn't profitable and
has some disastrous PR.

It doesn't help that the way they approach regulation, and the way they
allegedly treat workers match up pretty well. They take an aggressive stance
with both.

The narrative here is that a company that was once thought to be great is now
showing some significant cracks.

~~~
jowiar
They have also been around long enough that everyone in the industry knows
someone who said "great product, shitty place to work", or something to that
effect. We all knew there was _something_ a bit off, but didn't have a public,
large-scale narrative to get behind.

------
vmarquet
Isn't Uber like a Ponzi scheme in some way? They use investors money to
subsidize drivers so that prices are low and they get more users, and with
more users they are valued better and get more investors money. When investors
money or/and user growth stops, prices go up, people stop using it, and the
system collapses (or at least the user base shrinks).

~~~
jfoster
Like Amazon & Tesla?

Some companies just have a much bigger ramp up than others. Amazon has so many
markets to build warehousing & logistics in. Uber has so many markets to
establish drivers in.

The subsidising of rides makes complete sense; subsidised rides are loss-
leaders aimed towards building habits. I haven't seen their data, but it seems
like a good plan.

~~~
tarunm
Amazon spent capital on building an efficient supply chain based on technology
which is a huge entry barrier for any competitor. They did not use VC on
exclusively providing any discounts. Uber, on the other hand, is using VC
almost entirely on discounts hoping that users will stick around. Their
product is essentially an app which has been replicated in every major economy
with considerable success.

~~~
jfoster
Agreed, except that it seems quite likely that users stick around. Where else
would they go? The options seem to be an Uber competitor or taxis. Is there
anything that will motivate Uber customers toward those?

Uber's service is more than just an app. They have operations teams in every
market they operate in to onboard drivers, deal with local issues, etc.

~~~
ufo
The main attractive of uber is the price. Many people won't think twice about
jumping to a competitor if one shows up that is cheaper than Uber.

~~~
jfoster
How could it be the case that a traditional Uber competitor (eg. Lyft) could
be cheaper, though? Only through venture capital. VC aside, Uber have the
demand, which gives them the power to squeeze drivers.

Think of it from a driver perspective; if a competitor pays less than Uber
_and_ has less demand, why drive with them?

And if you think there will be a competitor capable of out-spending Uber using
venture capital, think of it from the perspective of a VC; why pour so much
capital into a business so unlikely to succeed against an incumbent when you
could put it into the incumbent itself?

I think the primary risk to Uber's business is that of a self-driving
competitor being capable of disrupting them; such competitors will have
capital already, and will be capable of disruption through all the same
ingredients that got Uber to where they are. Those companies would probably
work with Uber at least at first, anyway. Uber will be at their mercy every
time the contract needs to be renewed.

~~~
greenhatman
I think it's probably somewhat cheaper for new competitors to get up and
running and operate than it is/was for Uber.

Uber had to spend money to test the waters and figure things out. Competitors
can just copy.

------
moritzplassnig
I found this article ([https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-can-drive-
profits](https://www.theinformation.com/how-uber-can-drive-profits)) from The
Information interesting since the "Uber will get to self-driving cars which
makes them profitable" is brought as an argument all the time.

TL;DR is that self-driving cars according to an internal Uber study (according
to The Information) would only modestly increase their margins: "Doing without
drivers will only increase Uber’s projected long-term net profit margin by as
much as 5 percentage points, according to an Uber worker who’s seen internal
data projected by that team. That’s in part because of expected municipal
regulations on pricing related to autonomous vehicle services, this person
said. Another factor is that Uber may have to purchase and maintain its own
cars en masse, rather than relying on cars owned by drivers as it does now."

~~~
rrdharan
Several folks have analyzed this in depth. The economics of self-driving cars
are definitely far from clear:

[https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/10/20/2142450/do-the-
econom...](https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/10/20/2142450/do-the-economics-of-
self-driving-taxis-actually-make-sense/)

[http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/01/can-uber-ever-
deliver...](http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/01/can-uber-ever-deliver-part-
seven-ubers-narrative-vox-stratechery-critiques-naked-capitalisms-uber-series-
defending-uber-requires-ignoring.html)

------
marklyon
I hope not. I prefer my car service provider to be ruthless, impersonal, and
corporate, not lovey-dovey like the "fist bump and ride in the front seat"
people at Lyft. …and there's no way I want to go back to using DC Taxis.

~~~
colordrops
I don't know about DC, but in LA there's nothing lovey-dovey about Lyft. The
ride is identical to Uber.

~~~
massysett
Exact same in DC, where many cars have both Uber and Lyft signs in the window.

------
laurencei
I don't get the constant hype around self driving cars. Sure - they will be
revolutionary _when_ they get here - but the reality is they are years and
years away at best.

We have autopilots for planes, that can effectively take off, fly, and land a
plane. We've had that technology for quite a while.

So why is not common place for planes, at least cargo planes with no
passengers? Surely companies like UPS, FedEx etc that have a large fleet of
cargo planes that fly around the US and the world would have significant cost
savings?

Why do we feel a car is easier to autopilot than a plane?

And when the car autopilot technology does get here - why does Uber feel it
will benefit them more than Lyft? As soon as it is available - you'll just
have Uber style copy cats with "on demand" vehicles? What benefit does Uber
have at that point?

~~~
stagbeetle
> _I don 't get the constant hype around self driving cars. Sure - they will
> be revolutionary when they get here - but the reality is they are years and
> years away at best._

There's a mad dash going on to be first to market on driverless cars. The
basic driverless car is already being tested. The only things that need to be
done are major debugging and lobbying. ETA: within half a decade if lobbying
goes through.

> _We have autopilots for planes, that can effectively take off, fly, and land
> a plane. We 've had that technology for quite a while._

This is erroneous and irrelevant.

> _So why is not common place for planes, at least cargo planes with no
> passengers? Surely companies like UPS, FedEx etc that have a large fleet of
> cargo planes that fly around the US and the world would have significant
> cost savings?_

Planes are significantly harder to pilot than cars. If nothing else, look at
the differences between a pilot's license and a driver's. Perhaps driverless
cars will pave the way for pilotless planes, but not until safety can be
guaranteed.

No one wants another 9/11.

> _Why do we feel a car is easier to autopilot than a plane?_

There are more necessary controls and procedures in a plane than a car.

> _As soon as it is available - you 'll just have Uber style copy cats with
> "on demand" vehicles?_

If you're talking about one-offs, then probably not. The reason Uber copycats
are failing right now is because of app-population and broadness of coverage.
Small biz can't populate their own apps with large competitors still in the
picture.

Include that with any licensing fees, barrier to entries, etc. it's highly
unlikely. Perhaps if a ride-sharing-app sourcer is made that uses Uber and
Lyft APIs, while giving one-offs a chance to be mixed in, we might have a nice
free market.

> _What benefit does Uber have at that point?_

A practically free way to get even more cash.

~~~
dreamcompiler
> Planes are significantly harder to pilot than cars.

Not true. Planes have more degrees of freedom than cars, which slightly
increases the cognitive load on a pilot vs. a driver. But overall, the
cognitive load on drivers is significantly higher because _planes don 't have
to worry about hitting anything_ (except the ground). If you drive your car on
the Bonneville Salt Flats and you have the whole place to yourself, the
cognitive load of driving a car is easy, and slightly less than the CL of
piloting a plane. Building an autopilot for such a car would be easy. But
that's not even remotely what real driving is like, and it's why building an
autopilot for cars is significantly more difficult than building one for a
plane.

------
johan_larson
I'm having trouble believing a high-flying company could really come crashing
down over accusations that they are sexist assholes.

"They're a really high-pressure place, there's a lot of vicious corporate
politics, and they sometimes treat women badly," could describe a whole lot of
companies and institutions.

~~~
ucaetano
Uber has picked fights with local, regional and federal governments around the
world, as well as reporters, other companies, etc. Many of those could
potentially lead to litigation but so far haven't, and if anyone has been
waiting to sue Uber, this is the optimal time for it.

With the Waymo lawsuit, the internal investigations, cash burning, leaks,
disgruntled employees and drivers, a wave of new lawsuits around the country
and the world could quickly overwhelm the company, preventing it from doing an
IPO or even securing more funding. With the IPO delayed and valuation damaged,
more of the best employees will quit, as the long hours and low salaries won't
translate into post-IPO fortunes.

~~~
ucaetano
And it seems to be happening already:

[https://www.ft.com/content/c6bc4b2c-0012-11e7-8d8e-a5e3738f9...](https://www.ft.com/content/c6bc4b2c-0012-11e7-8d8e-a5e3738f9ae4)

------
sharkweek
I think about this a lot.

We live in a time where some of the most ridiculous services are being
subsidized big time by VC cash, and I should be enjoying it while it lasts.
From cheap rides to the airport, food delivery, laundry service, etc... soak
it up now.

~~~
chinathrow
No.

If you know and realize that it is only convenient because of VC subsidies,
you know enough not to use those services since it won't be sustainable.

I try to understand each business model I support with revenue. If it's only
setup to enable growth, I pass.

~~~
robotresearcher
I don't think it's morally wrong to take a cheap taxi ride subsidized by
speculators. I don't care if the model is sustainable since I get all my value
immediately in return for the fare.

The way Uber treats its people is a separate issue.

~~~
geofft
What about the opportunity cost of driving more sustainable competition
(whether that's better taxis, direct competitors, or public transit) out of
business? Uber doesn't exist in a vacuum.

~~~
robotresearcher
That's an interesting point. In the long term I think there will always be a
need for the service so when a loss leader goes out of business someone will
step up.

Public transit has existed alongside taxis for hundreds of years. Uber won't
kill transit.

------
rmason
Travis Kalanick is a poster boy for bad behavior but this article is self
exploiting trash.

First Uber is close to break even in the US and Latin America. They've also
stemmed their losses in China with the merger with Didi.

[http://fortune.com/2016/02/18/uber-profitable-
us/](http://fortune.com/2016/02/18/uber-profitable-us/)

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-31/uber-s-
fa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-31/uber-s-fastest-
growing-region-set-to-break-even-fund-expansion)

The story they should have written is how Uber is going to hire with all this
bad publicity? Any 'A' players are going to demand outrageous compensation to
work for them now.

As for Travis himself he needs to send a plane for Jerry Colonna, startup
coach to the stars ASAP.

------
grandalf
Here's why Uber will succeed:

\- Nobody who lives in a market that Uber serves will _ever_ be willing to go
back to the old way of calling a taxi dispatch line by phone, waiting on hold,
and being told the cab will arrive in "five to thirty minutes". Seriously.
Think about this.

\- Nobody used to Uber will want to waste time taking out a credit card and
swiping it through a dirty slot or handing it to a driver only to wait several
minutes for it to finally go through.

\- Compared to the average Uber vehicle, most taxis are filthy and full of all
sorts of odors.

\- The taxi/livery industry is simply too used to enjoying a monopoly business
to be able to fix itself.

Uber has already won, and all these stories about Uber's culture, Uber's
approach to dealing with regulators, etc., are one last attempt by those who
dislike Uber to gang up on it and do it harm.

Taxi and livery services, medallions, and all the corruption that goes with
them are on the way out. The stories we should be reading would be about
immigrants scammed by Taxi companies working in violation of medallion laws,
or about the cost of an NYC medallion that keeps non-rich people from making
money driving.

I don't think Uber's prices are subsidized enough that if the subsidy went
away demand would be significantly altered.

Simply having an intelligent app tell drivers where to expect fares and
allowing easy booking and payment ads significant value to every ride that far
outweighs the small dollar subsidy Uber invests to try to win market share.

I personally use Uber far more often than I would ever take a Taxi, largely
because of the incredible convenience that the app offers and the high quality
of the service.

While Uber's culture could probably use some improvement, it's irritating to
see everyone piling on and trying to harm one of the firms that has done the
most to democratize labor and empower individuals.

~~~
geofft
> _Nobody who lives in a market that Uber serves will_ ever _be willing to go
> back to the old way of calling a taxi dispatch line by phone, waiting on
> hold, and being told the cab will arrive in "five to thirty minutes".
> Seriously. Think about this._

In New York, every taxi is now hailable from a smartphone app that shows me
the current locations of nearby taxis and reliably gets me one in 3-5 minutes
from most places in the city.

> _Nobody used to Uber will want to waste time taking out a credit card and
> swiping it through a dirty slot or handing it to a driver only to wait
> several minutes for it to finally go through._

Even if I don't hail a taxi from the app, the screen inside the car shows a
code that I can use to associate my app's payment account _after_ I get in the
car. (Also, the real problem here is drivers claiming the credit card machine
broke, but that's stopped happening.)

> _Compared to the average Uber vehicle, most taxis are filthy and full of all
> sorts of odors._

You need to clarify what market you're in. Not NYC, surely.

> _The taxi /livery industry is simply too used to enjoying a monopoly
> business to be able to fix itself._

It fixed itself in NYC, and if it can fix itself there it can fix itself
anywhere.

Seriously. I do credit Uber and Lyft with making the taxi industry realize
that they're doing things wrong and have an easily-eatable lunch, but they're
figuring things out. I'm more curious about places (like the college town I
grew up in) that have Uber service but barely any taxi service.

~~~
jtmcmc
seriously? NYC has one of the best taxi networks prior to uber. Try taking a
taxi in the bay area to understand a truly dysfunctional taxi system.

I attempted to use a similar system to the one you described in vancouver
where there is no ride sharing it basically failed to work at all and I had to
resort to the old "call a taxi company and wait indiscriminate amount of
minutes." At least their credit card systems worked which as you said is a
common issue in taxis here too (I have several times had a mexican standoff
with taxi drivers here until their machines magically started working).

~~~
grandalf
> Try taking a taxi in the bay area to understand a truly dysfunctional taxi
> system.

Absolutely true. And it's worth noting that Gavin Newsom got his start in
politics as SF Taxi Commissioner.

It's hard to estimate the scale of under-the-table dealings or the amount of
money taxi companies skimmed from the system before Uber came in and imposed
order.

Uber essentially provided oxygen in a market that had been strangled for so
long by corrupt public/private deals.

------
billions
Those of us who have been around a while remember the black sheep of past
technology eras. I always like to sum (+/-)happiness/person * num people
affected by the technology]. It usually outweighs the dramatized negative
points covered in the press.

------
edshiro
I think this sentence really captures the customer's mindset with regards to
Uber: "We’ll stick with Uber as long as it continues to get us where we want
to go at a price we like."

As long as this argument above is true, I don't see Uber dying.

~~~
rocqua
If they are really posting huge losses, they might need to hike prices.

Besides, #deleteuber shows that bad PR has at least a marginal effect.

~~~
jfoster
They could hike prices and as long as they were equal to, less than, or even
slightly above their competition, that would probably not cause much customer
churn. The more interesting way for them to hike prices would be by rolling
out upfront pricing everywhere. Consumers may not notice the slight price
upticks if they happen gradually enough.

In any case, they may not need to hike prices on customers. They could just
increase their share from drivers. This may cause driver churn which would
affect supply, but they have their ride liquidity algorithm (surge pricing) to
take care of that.

The bad PR will definitely be a pain for them, but doesn't seem likely to
affect their longer term success.

------
elmar
the main problem is the unit economics that don't work for Uber or Lyft, if
the subsidies stop they will be the same price or more than Taxis.

~~~
seppin
then they are a premium car service again, one that people would gladly pay
for.

just no 50b valuations

~~~
hueving
I wouldn't pay for it. I (and most of the US) don't have the money to blow $50
each way to the airport for a vacation. Assuming Uber/Lyft on both ends,
that's $200 in airport transportation which is nearly the cost of the airfare
to fly a thousand miles round trip.

~~~
easytiger
You don't know much about London. $100 fares from Heathrow to z1 are pretty
normal.

~~~
vertex-four
Why would you take a taxi that far? Heathrow has plenty of public transport
services.

------
jacques_chester
My main concern, as a potential founder, is that once Uber goes "pop" or Snap
goes "fsssss", there will be the inevitable catastrophic lurch in the
financial hivemind.

The purses will snap shut all at once, for good and ill. Contractions are no
respecter of potential.

I'd really like to get in before last call.

~~~
mzzter
I'm pretty sure they will continue to invest, hopefully more wisely though.
They want to grow their money, so they need to invest to do that. The "lurch"
should control the ballooning valuations of these startups.

~~~
jacques_chester
I'd like that, but in my experience, markets tend to be big-bang control
systems.

------
dkarapetyan
I asked this question a while back and I'll ask it again. Why is Kalanick
still in charge?

------
apapli
Uber = Groupon v2?

~~~
curun1r
Webvan seems like a more apt comparison. Some of Uber's antics remind me of
the way Webvan used to act.

I remember seeing one of their delivery people pull up and park in a red zone
right in front of a cop. The cop told him he couldn't park there. His
response, "Are you going to tow me?" was answered with "no, but..." and before
the cop could finish, the driver had walked away. The cop dutifully wrote out
the ticket.

Uber's scale is a lot larger, but the two feel much more similar than either
does to Groupon. Groupon was much more a gimmick product that used high-
pressure sales tactics to get small businesses into situations they weren't
prepared for with dubious benefit. Once word got around and people realized
that its benefit to businesses was much more limited than they promised, they
got a lot smaller. But Groupon wasn't really burning VC cash to subsidize a
legitimately-useful service the way that Uber and Webvan are/did.

~~~
rocqua
> I remember seeing one of their delivery people pull up and park in a red
> zone right in front of a cop. The cop told him he couldn't park there. His
> response, "Are you going to tow me?" was answered with "no, but..." and
> before the cop could finish, the driver had walked away. The cop dutifully
> wrote out the ticket.

I like the concept of an 'economic' crime for these kinds of situations. The
idea is that when a misdemeanor has the normal penalty aimed at deterring
private usage but was committed for commercial reasons, the penalty is
massively increased.

This way, you prevent situations where it makes financial sense to park in
front of a fire hydrant and just eat the fines.

------
jonthepirate
I've also been calling for this...

"Ridesharing" as we know is it going to crash
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13762242](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13762242)

Their valuation got so far ahead of itself that priced into it is global
domination. Now that it clearly is not a global monopoly, there's nowhere to
go but down. Everyday one of their employees goes to work is a day wasted
where they could have been vesting at a company which is not horribly over
valued.

Disclaimer: Former Lyft engineer / stockholder here (2014-2016)

------
frik
Uber might be the new Webvan
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webvan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webvan)

------
tlow
Evidence suggests that this market is changing rapidly. I have seen graphs on
paid ride figures being pretty even over time, whereas standard taxi figures
appear to almost universally be dropping in quantity. Might not a longer term
perspective change a lot of this speculation? Putting aside the driverless car
thing for a moment, can't we at least agree for the next 3-5 years people are
going to continue to require taxi-like transportation services?

------
chaser7016
Uber needs to be hacked and destroyed to finally teach its founders humility,
morality and ethics. He isn't going to change until he meets rock bottom!!!

------
coldcode
Uber was an interesting idea brilliantly executed with billions and billions
of other people's money that in the end has no chance of ever being
profitable. Like Twitter, it's an indispensable product that nonetheless
doesn't make money and in the end making money is what real businesses do.

------
sschueller
I guess Unicorns are actually a myth and don't really exist.

------
thedogeye
Greyball looks like a cut and dry case of obstruction of justice. I predict
there will be jail time.

------
phodo
The saving grace for Uber will be self-driving cars. Uber is a race against
time to keep up the VC-subsidies until self driving is feasible. They don't
need to make all routes self-driving, only some routes in some cities, to make
the unit economics favorable and profitable. This logic holds true even if
self-driving requires a large upfront fixed cost investment, as that cost can
be amortized over time.

~~~
rrdharan
It's kind of funny to consider how long this debate has been going on and the
self-driving cars excuse as merely the latest iteration of it:
[http://www.bradford-delong.com/2016/12/must-read-there-
is-a-...](http://www.bradford-delong.com/2016/12/must-read-there-is-a-serious-
debate-about-uber-floor-wax-or-desert-topping-excuse-me-uber-grift-or-
technological.html)

To quote Tom Slee from the comment above:

\- Uber has a nice business as a status product (Uber Black Car ~ 2010)

\- Uber Black may not be profitable, but Uber will displace taxis and be
hugely profitable because of technology-driven efficiencies (UberX: 2014-2015)

\- UberX may not be profitable, but UberPool will lead to new efficiencies in
mass transit (2015-2016)

\- UberX may not be profitable, but Uber is a logistics company and will
rewrite the rules of delivery (UberEats, various speculative stories,
2013-2015)

\- UberPool may not be profitable, but when Uber displaces car ownership the
scale of the market will make it profitable (2016)

\- Uber with drivers may not be profitable, but driverless cars will make Uber
profitable (2014-)

\- Driverless cars may not be profitable, but Uber is looking into flying
vehicles (2016)

------
asasidh
I thought we already had theranos

------
employee8000
As an Uber employee, yes we are going through a rough patch and we are doing a
lot of bloodletting right now internally, but as a company I think we will
emerge much better and much more impassioned. If you saw the numbers we see,
you wouldn't be so quick to predict our death. And no, I'm not going to leak
anything, go ask NYT who seems to have their own personal leak, whom I hope
gets caught and fired.

In terms of self-driving cars I'm not holding my breath. I think that's a
decade away at least, the only reason why Uber cares is because if we don't
have a foothold in that race, it's an existential problem for us. But all it
will take is one terrible self-driving car tragedy to push back all research
by 20 years due. I really hope something like that never happens but with all
these players doing self-driving cars who can tell what will happen in the
future.

~~~
wott
> As an Uber employee,

Yes, we know, since you almost always use this account to do PR for Uber.

~~~
Neliquat
Wow, thought you were exaggerating but all his comments are "as an uber
employee" spins, or comments downvoted to oblivion that have been redacted. Is
there any guidance from HN on corporate spin (aka shill) accounts, or could
this just be considered an overly enthusiastic employees legit opinion?

~~~
employee8000
This is a ridiculous statement. Would you prefer I don't announce myself as an
Uber employee when talking about Uber?

