
Annoyed by Restaurant Playlists, a Master Musician Made His Own - devy
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/dining/restaurant-music-playlists-ryuichi-sakamoto.html
======
Animats
_“The color of the wall, the texture of the furniture, the setting of the
room, wasn’t good for enjoying music with darker tones.”_

First world problem.

My favorite source of background music is "radiocoast.com". Not because it's
that great, but because someone figured out a way to beat the music industry.
He got a collection of background music records made for the Seeburg 1000 and
2000. Seeburg was a jukebox maker in Chicago. As a sideline they sold
background music devices which played a big stack of special records over and
over - 1000 or 2000 songs. They bought the rights to the music, and their own
orchestra recorded them. So they had full content ownership. The records had a
nonstandard groove width, a nonstandard diameter, and a nonstandard hole size;
DRM, the early years. They were not copyrighted and predate the "no
formalities" copyright law. So anyone with the records can legally distribute
the music. Which "radiocoast.com" does.

~~~
d33
> First world problem.

Why is that wrong for first-world people to tackle first-world problems? Just
because you don't believe in a particular piece of psychology doesn't
necessarily have to make it untrue.

Seriously, it's quite annoying to see problems dismissed just because they're
"first world problems". Comfort is important and we're proven to process
things subconsciously.

~~~
GoToRO
Nobody said it's wrong. Everyone has the right to choose the kind of problems
he/she would like to solve.

~~~
kelnos
Just using the phrase "first world problem" by itself has negative or
dismissive connotations. No one uses it to express that something is positive
or even just neutral.

~~~
GoToRO
I see it as dismissive but not negative. Somebody charges you a fee to help
you decide on a super car. Good for them and good for you! Yet I will decide
by myself if I care or not. For sure if things do not work out the worst it
can happen is that you end up with a random super car. I just can't make
myself to care enough about it.

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toomanybeersies
It's not a good restaurant playlist if it doesn't have Massive Attack or
Bonobo!

The thing that drove me bonkers when I used to work in restaurants was the
monotony of listening to the same 2-3 hour playlist on repeat all day, every
day. Certain songs still trigger me if I hear them today. They're
fundamentally linked to the restaurant and I always feel a flood of memories
when I hear them.

~~~
subpixel
I am dating myself here but there was a period of _many years_ where trendy
restaurants seemed to be competing to see who could play the most tracks by
the Gypsy Kings.

~~~
rsync
I feel like we're _still_ in the 15+ year era of Kruder & Dorfmeister on
repeat at every trendy restaurant and bar ...

~~~
Fnoord
Any specific tracks?

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chasingthewind
I expect to be a lonely voice saying that I actually dislike music playing in
the background anywhere I go. I'd rather hear white noise or just the
background noise that's present. This will sound a bit nutty, but I've always
felt that music is trying to "tell me how to feel" in a sense...as if it's
trying to hack my brain and influence my mood. (I'm personifying the
music...or perhaps mistrustful of the motives of those playing it?) If a
"happy" piece of music is playing then I feel like I'm being influenced to
feel happy. If sad/melancholy music is playing I feel like there's an outside
influence that's trying to induce me to feel sad. Long story short I find
background music to be incredibly distracting and somewhat frustrating.

~~~
kelnos
I agree, but I think more in just a noise level sense. If I'm among the first
few to arrive at a restaurant or bar, and it's nearly silent, I don't find
that desirable, so some music is nice (or, as you suggest, some white noise,
though that might be weird). But once there are enough people in a space to
achieve a comfortable background din, the music should just be shut off.

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ilamont
_I would prefer that music not [be] the result of algorithmic computation._

This is the problem with so many playlists, automated DJs, and the like. You
get the monotonous "best hits" compendiums or ham-handed, jarring mixes with
no sense of flow.

This is one of the reasons why I ditched Amazon Music. Many of them seem to be
programmed by algorithm ... or by people who have no idea what they are doing.

~~~
gjstein
I've been pleasantly surprised to find that there are a number of music
podcasts that satisfy my music needs on a weekly basis. A number of artists I
like have weekly "radio" broadcasts that curate music that's caught their ear.
(I listen to mostly electronic music though, so YMMV for other genres.)

~~~
Sukotto
Yes, me too. If you're interested, my current list is:

\- A State of Trance with Armin Van Buuren (though recently he's started
adding much more talking so I'm close to dropping it)

\- Club Life with Tiësto

\- Hardwell on Air

\- Corsten's Countdown

\- Afrojack: Jacked Radio (this one is really hit-or-miss for me. I skip maybe
half the episodes)

As an aside:

\- the "Song Exploder" podcast is a fascinating view into what goes into
making music though that one falls into the "Talk" category

\- I love the old "Timeless Mixes" by the (now defunct) DJ River. Which are
helpfully all available as a podcast, so once in a while I'll mark a few of
them as unplayed so my player will download them and add them to the playlist.

~~~
acemarke
I'm a big fan of "Vocal Vibes" by Richiere, "Mellomania Vocal Trance Anthems"
by Pedro del Mar, and "Uplifting Only" by Original Uplift. Found all of them
through the Digitally Imported / DI.FM streaming service.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
DI.FM doesn't get enough attention. I subscribe, and have found so much music
I love through the service. I'll even occasionally buy individual tracks,
through other channels - I think I read somewhere DI.FM was going to start
offering music sales but only to US customers initially.

~~~
acemarke
Yeah, it's a great service. Used to be $50/yr, and they recently bumped it to
$70. Given that I listen to it anywhere from 5-15 hours a day, I'd say I'm
still getting my money's worth :)

That subscription also gives you the same higher streaming quality for DI.fm's
sister services for Jazz Radio, Rock Radio, and RadioTunes (which has a great
assortment of channels ranging from jazz to decades music to world and
ambient).

The app and site let you mark songs as favorites and review a list of songs
you've favorited, but there's no obvious way to purchase those. If they added
direct purchases, I'd happily go pick up a bunch of my favorite tracks through
them.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I had no idea about those other sites, thanks for bringing that to my
attention.

Is there a way I could have discovered that from the DI.FM website? Or did
they tell me in an email I didn't read when I went premium?

------
morganvachon
Sakamoto is one of my all time favorite composers. If you like stripped down,
bare piano music you should check out his BTTB (Back to the Basic) album. It's
my go-to relaxation spin.

~~~
code_duck
Definitely a great musician and I don’t think most people in the US realize
how influential Sakamoto and YMO were worldwide, and how famous they are in
Japan. I did not know until recently.

Sakomoto, Haruimi Hosono and Yukihiro Takahashi created not only several
seminal YMO albums, but also dozens of solo albums and projects with a sound
that often preceded American and European music by a few years. They are
credited with laying the groundwork for techno, electro pop, and dance music.
Also, Sakomoto’s influence can be heard in 8 and 16 but Japanese video game
music from the 80s and 90s. I’m fact, Yuji Naka is Sega even said he started
programming after being inspired by YMO’s electronic music. Ryuichi Sakomoto
offering to make a playlist for your restaurant is about like having George
Harrison or David Bowie offer to do it.

~~~
code_duck
Sorry about the typo cluster - I meant ‘8 and 16 bit’ and ‘In fact’, and ‘of
Sega’. It’s distressing to think I proofread that.

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b1daly
As an aside, I think there has been some interesting trends in the playlists
used in public businesses, and mostly for the better.

For example, a few years ago I noticed that Walgreens would generally have
pretty good pop music playing. But what was most striking was the songs were
not hits, or perhaps older hits, even though most were from major label
productions.

I have surmised that companies providing these playlists might be able to
negotiate better deals with the publishers, directly, giving the publishers
(and writers) an opportunity to monetize their back catalog.

~~~
dingaling
In the UK the broadcast station Virgin Radio used to use "classic album
tracks" as its strap line. It was a really good way to dive deeper into the
back-catalogues of bands.

------
kevin_b_er
Alas not a single mention of if these songs required a whole different set of
licenses to play. The act of changing the song list can lead down to a
confusing licensing set as there's at least 4 different licensing authorities,
each covering a differing set of songs.

~~~
majos
Confused. Do restaurants have to pay to play songs?

~~~
toomanybeersies
Yes, legally restaurants have seperate licensing requirements and can't just
use Spotify for their music.

In reality, most small restaurants and cafes just use Spotify. Bars and larger
restaurants tend to be a bit more fastidious in getting the correct rights.

~~~
soundwave106
Yes, this is because, a small restaurant can use just Spotify or another music
service and not have to pay the license fee. This doesn't apply to larger
establishments. ([https://www.restaurant.org/Manage-My-
Restaurant/Operations/R...](https://www.restaurant.org/Manage-My-
Restaurant/Operations/Regulatory-back-office/11-questions-about-music-
licensing))

~~~
soundwave106
Now that's a funny drive-by down-vote.

Normally (rant mode on) it is my opinion that most drive-by down-votes are by
lazy cowards who think someone's opinion is wrong, but is unwilling to debate
(probably because their counter-argument is rather weak, honestly). Too much
of this and you get the atypical "mob mentality" typical on most social media
networks -- most of which have become intellectual wastelands, replaced by
feel-good quick-dopamine-hit memes all focusing on whatever "side" the social
media collective has embraced. (Counter-narratives and counter-opinions,
beware.)

But this doesn't quite fit the usual pattern. In this case, I must have
misinterpreted something, perhaps. But someone is not willing to say what is
incorrect.

Interesting! Because, the alternate view is that I'm absolutely right, and the
downvoter just had a weird beef with Spotify or restaurant.org. Hard to tell.
It's a social media downvote after all.

------
woodrowbarlow
(somewhat off-topic)

in school, i took a wonderful class about computer music, taught by the
eccentric composer and charismatic professor Dr. Rodney Waschka III. he
dedicated one class to the topic of royalties and the three major artist
guilds. we learned that any business that wants to play the radio will usually
just pay subscriptions to all three guilds rather than keeping track of
royalties owed to individual artists.

when Waschka organized campus concerts in this niche and highly academic field
of art, these concerts would naturally be performances of pieces written by
himself and his colleagues from other universities... so the university paid
royalties to Waschka and his colleagues, who would then use the money to
commission each other to compose new pieces.

------
code_duck
Music selection is a big deal for spaces where people plan to spend social
time. I think the reason a lot of places get it wrong is because they are
simply not operated by people with good musical taste who understand how
important it is to other people.

Starbucks employs music curators: [https://www.fastcompany.com/3067250/meet-
the-music-nerds-beh...](https://www.fastcompany.com/3067250/meet-the-music-
nerds-behind-the-tunes-you-hear-at-starbucks)

I saw an article recently which told a tale of trendy coffee shops featuring
where obscure but desirable music selected by expert hipster curators.
Supposedly, some ask employees to track the number of people they see using
Shazam, that being considered a sign of success. I have spent a lot of time in
coffee shops while traveling, and I do recall hearing a few songs which stuck
with me that I couldn’t find any trace of on the Internet, even after asking
in the specific subreddits for the bands related (a unique cover of the Cure,
for instance). That certainly doesn’t happen at Dunkin Donuts. Unfortunately
I’ve been unable to locate this article.

------
archi42
I always would love to have a curated playlist by someone like Ayreon to "just
listen to great music", and not those boring playlists on spotify. Back when I
in my teens and the golden age of MP3 was upon us I had more time to do this
myself, but nowadays I am getting a bit lost on it all (not enough time to
"just discover").

Nice to see this guy tackled the issue (even if for another setting).

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donquichotte
This reminds me of a bar I used to frequent that had an electronic jukebox. It
was quite the redneck place, and the music was accordingly heavy. Every once
in a while my friends and I would go to the jukebox and select a full length
record of Concierto de Aranjuez that lasted like 25 minutes. It toned down the
raunchy atmosphere and made the place quite enjoyable.

------
sunstone
If you're looking for sophisticated but understated dinner music you could do
a lot worse than Lenny Breau's "Guitar Sounds". You probably have to torrent
to get it but it's worth the effort.

~~~
the_cat_kittles
hell yea, lenny breau was an unbelievable talent. and very often forgotten
when people talk about great guitarists.

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the_dege
This is a copy of the playlist made by the nytimes:
[https://open.spotify.com/user/nytimes/playlist/2YY3rAwm9tldN...](https://open.spotify.com/user/nytimes/playlist/2YY3rAwm9tldNhlBmuMqgY)

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thehnguy
If others agree with the author’s opinion, it makes the case for curation like
Apple Music launches with and has been touting as a differentiator.

~~~
dbt00
The best music curation I experienced was a service called Songza, which was
acquired by and absorbed into google music. I still have a subscription to
google play music, even though the songza playlists had gotten hard enough to
find at one point that I stopped trying.

This article & discussion was enough for me to stop working briefly and go
research whatever happened, and apparently Peter Asbill is still at Google and
I should try again.

Update: holy shit, yeah.

~~~
funkjunky
Any recommended playlists? I'd like to check some out, but Google music
doesn't specifically tag the Songza playlists

~~~
efm
Try random play. It'll spin up a thematic playlist.

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modells
Spotify needs a location-based check-in system where an users’ tastes vote for
piped music play, and/or some way to vote on the next song: like a
distributed, semi/automated what was turntable.fm.

~~~
bochoh
Check out Rockbot. My gym uses it to crowdsource the next few songs. If you're
not at a location that uses it you can tune into their HQ and play music for
their employees presumably. Unfortunately you can hear it yourself.

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ruslanmsv
Why is this on hacker news?

~~~
bpicolo
> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes
> more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the
> answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

