
How the Witcher 3’s economy was saved by polynomial least squares - theandrewbailey
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/08/how-the-witcher-3s-economy-was-saved-by-polynomial-least-squares/
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jsnell
Hm. So I'd view the economy of Witcher 3 as mostly broken, exactly for the
reasons that they claim to have solved here. The idea of an economy feels poor
is not there at all, the player will be swimming in money 10 hours into a 100
hour game. It's almost impossible to run out of money unless you're insisting
on buying out every single alchemy recipe from every vendor.

And the pricing of the rare items (e.g. the relics) makes them seem completely
irrelevant. You'll get a cutscene before getting a quest reward talking about
how you're getting an amazing sword that has been in the family for centuries
etc. And then it's slightly worse than what you already have, and the only use
is to sell this legendary weapon for a price that'll allow you to buy 10
loaves of bread.

Though getting the economy balance right is really hard due to different play
styles, so it's understandable.

~~~
enraged_camel
If you play on the default difficulty, money won't be a problem. But anything
higher will have you buying herbs and consumables on a regular basis.

I play on the third difficulty level, and while my financial situation has
gradually improved, I wouldn't exactly say that I'm swimming in money. I need
to upgrade gear on a regular basis to stay on par with mob levels, and also
craft gear. That stuff is pretty expensive.

~~~
ebola1717
Hm, I played on the highest difficulty, as an alchemy spec, but I never had an
issue with money. Alcohol is expensive, but you can loot enough Dwarven
Spirits on our adventures that you only need to buy it to craft new potions. I
never had to buy loot, since the witcher gear is usually good enough. I guess
if I spammed bombs, it might be different, but with potions I was fine.

~~~
enraged_camel
Yeah, I've never been the type to obsessively loot every single container
while adventuring, so I was always short on supplies. The economy is probably
not optimized for the frugal packrat. :)

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gruez
Did anyone else find the title as a little cringey? The name of the GDC talk
was "Witchcraft: The Alchemy of a Crafting-Based Economy", but I guess that
didn't sound as high tech as "polynomial least squares".

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gburt
Saying "polynomial least squares" to refer to a class of model fitting
techniques that...

1) basically dominates the entire space of statistical analysis

2) was almost entirely irrelevant to the article

...struck me as pretty artificial to me too.

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shmerl
Witcher 1 provided a more faithful to the settings environment. Witchers
aren't rich. They struggle to pay for their special equipment and potions and
their incomes usually barely cover their expenses. When you get a new armor
jacket it's a time for celebration.

That's how it was in TW1, and to some degree in TW2 as well. I didn't play TW3
yet (still waiting for the Linux release), but I've heard that this feeling
from the previous games I described above is gone. Money is too easy to get
and there is too much epic loot lying around and etc.

~~~
t0mbstone
When you think about it, though, the idea that Witchers would be poor is kind
of a dumb concept. With the powers they have, and the services they provide to
people, there is zero believable reason for them to be poor.

~~~
ajuc
It made sense in books - the monsters were becoming rare as civilization
spreaded, the people that had monster problems were usually poor, and the
alternative for them was "move on to big city or less wild region".

Witchers were relicts of different times and had to compete on price or pivot
to assasin/bodyguard industry :)

In games for gameplay reason they made monsters very common again (explaining
it away by wars and plague decivilizing big regions again) - so it make sense
for witchers to be more wealthy again.

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ericdykstra
I think you're spot-on here (personally I'm currently reading the books and
playing through the Witcher 3 slowly).

The world of the Witcher 3 is a lot more monster-riddled than what's presented
in the books, with a board full of witcher contracts at every little
settlement. It wouldn't make sense for witchers to be poor in the context of
the game, especially in a world where witchers are a dying breed and monsters
are on the rise again.

~~~
shmerl
Not sure about that. Usually even for difficult monsters witchers aren't paid
a lot simply because people are too poor, and in the country riddled by war
it's even more so.

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Dylan16807
>for particularly wealthy players, merchants would always sell for more and
buy for less

Well that's obnoxious. Better throw your money on the floor so merchants don't
screw you?

Or does your reputation precede you as a super-powerful warrior that's really
gullible? Most games have you get better at making deals over time, not worse.

~~~
gburt
This happens in the real world too. Imagine travelling to a poor country as
someone easily identified as wealthy, for instance. It happens on a microscale
within a given country too, if anyone identifies your wealth, you'll find
prices creep upwards, especially for work of a contracting variety.

To really confirm this, try bringing two watches to a watchmaker at different
times, one a $5,000 watch and one a $500 watch. Ask what a service costs. The
gap tends to exist even if the movements are the same!

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contingencies
Interestingly, here in China I am currently editing and shooting a documentary
on a foreign community and just yesterday hit on an interviewee's comment
specifically to the effect that this does not occur, ie. locals treat everyone
equally. The way this was explained was that, if you ask the price for
something in a market, wait 10 seconds and eavesdrop on a local requesting the
price for the same, it never differs. This is also my experience (after 15
years). I wonder if perhaps this area (China's most ethnically and
linguistically diverse) simply has a fair treatment norm based in pluralistic
history.

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JamesSwift
That is the exact opposite of my experience of Chinese markets (Beijing/Xian).
Asking in English is quoted at a markedly higher price than asking in Chinese.
Not to mention that it is haggling-based, and final price was even more
dramatic when using Chinese vs English.

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mikeash
Even if it's a Chinese person asking in Chinese, the results can differ
dramatically merely if they're seen to be accompanied by a non-Chinese person.
If you want the best deal, not only have a native ask for you, but _hide_
before they do!

~~~
eru
Same thing with getting spicey food.

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oldmanjay
The economy in Arkham Knight is interesting in comparison. Bruce Wayne rewards
himself with waynepoints for beating people effectively, then spends these
points on things he already owns but decided not to bring out with him, so
that he can get even more points for laying out even more effective beatings.

I think it's a psychopath simulator.

~~~
ekianjo
Sound like a virtuous cycle.

