

Ask HN: Suggestions for Mac Laptop - matt1

I'm interested in purchasing a Mac laptop, but have very little knowledge about them. My prior experience is limited to a few brief tristes in various Apple stores.<p>I don't need anything fancy as far as graphics or gaming. I'd mainly use it for Rails and web development.<p>What do you guys recommend?
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tptacek
Easy: buy whatever the cheapest laptop Apple sells, at any point in time. The
2ghz white Macbook is standard issue at our company; we use 'em like a chef
uses a Global chef knife: software development, C code compilation, running
Windows tools under VMWare, and running custom VM's for target software during
analysis.

There's no feature of the Macbook Pro anyone on my team ever misses. The
larger screen is a liability when traveling; at the office, you want a monitor
anyways. You're almost never going to be CPU bound, and even if you were, the
difference in processor performance is negligible.

Just get the cheapest Macbook and spend the rest of your money on more
important things.

~~~
dnaquin
CPU's a big help if you're compiling a lot. Then again most projects are small
enough where it doesn't matter. But my MBP's a necessity when it comes to
compiling Firefox.

~~~
tptacek
Even compilation is mostly IO bound. I'd be interested in an off-the-shelf
benchmark on compiling Firefox, MB vs. MBP. I haven't seen one. Regardless,
you're paying a _lot_ for what may be a nominal difference; you could spend
that money better.

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mattmaroon
You've got like 3 choices, it's not that complicated.

~~~
zacharydanger
But there's the stylish one, the _other_ stylish one, and the other _other_
stylish one.

~~~
tptacek
There's 4 at the moment:

* The super thin, relatively expensive, stylish one that's limited and hard to expand. (Air)

* The super cheap, relatively unstylish white all-purpose machine. (Original Macbook)

* The cheap, flashy, glassy new one. (Macbook)

* The expensive, flashy, glassy new one with the big screen. (Macbook Pro).

~~~
adr
The old 17-inch Macbook Pro is still available.

~~~
tptacek
Did not know that. See? It _is_ more complicated than Matt Maroon said.

~~~
mattmaroon
You got me.

Lack of choices is simultaneously their biggest weakness and strength.

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markessien
I'll tell you one thing: a white macbook is not a good laptop for travelling a
lot. Mine is busted along the seams, the hard drive failed after 5 months, and
the plastic above the hard drive has now turned yellow, I assume because of
the heat. Also, the keyboard is missing a lot of standard keys for my
language.

I wish I had gone for the IBM x series instead. They look like they can handle
the travel much better.

~~~
hugs
Agreed. White does not travel well. I've learned there's a reason most travel
gear is sold in black -- it hides the dirt and scratches!

To keep my white MacBook looking clean, I bought a ProTouch keyboard cover
from iSkin, and a "PalmGuard" wristpad covers from Moshi -- and even then, I
try to use an external keyboard and mouse as much as possible to reduce wear
and tear on the laptop.

I'm glad Apple's brief flirtation with white laptop design is over.

~~~
royalpineapple
the first ibook came out in '99, i would hardly call the last 9 years a brief
flirtation.

------
alecco
As a Macbook owner I had to admit the Toshiba Protege latest ultraportable
leaves it biting the dust. The current Macbooks look a decade older. Compare
it with the Macbook Air: \- Weight 1kg (vs 1.35kg) \- Slim (even more) \- 3G
modem built in. \- It has a DVD player. \- Removable battery. Apple needs to
catch up fast or they are going to loose on this one. Unless something
changes, next year I'll be buying my first Toshiba. Apple can't charge prime
and under-deliver.

Oh, and asking to pay full price on new OS version that came out only three
months after laptop purchase didn't help. This is probably bye bye Mac for me,
unless something major changes.

~~~
mattmaroon
Apple's really far behind on ultra-portables because they tried too hard to
make the Air thin. Nobody sticks a laptop in their pocket, and any bag is
designed for a much thicker one than that, so there's really no use for it.

What there is use for is a spindle and multiple USB ports.

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charlesju
Buy the least expensive new Macbook. I am in love with this machine. It plays
World of Warcraft at 40-60 FPS, I have 4 spaces at all times, it never lags on
anything I do. With all my windows on full screen, 13 inches is enough space
to do everything comfortably, including gaming. The aluminum casing is truly
revolutionary, there are no screws at all on the entire case, it's incredibly
sturdy and light.

I am currently developing on it on a daily basis, 12 hrs at a time (Ruby on
Rails too). Macs are really good for Ruby on Rails because they have Ruby
built in, and it's easy to use gem to get Rails and all those other goodies.

But if you want to keep yourself up-to-date, you should probably ditch the
Ruby that comes with your Mac and use Macports to get the newest Ruby, some
new programs are dependent on it, ie. Capistano.

~~~
tptacek
Strongly advise rebuilding Ruby (or for that matter Python) yourself. You
should be developing on a build of your runtime that you understand; for both
Ruby and Python, I've run into incredibly annoying problems in the built-in
versions.

------
MaysonL
Consider replacing the HD in one of the aluminum Macbooks with one of the new
Intel SSDs (about $600 now for 64GB) which will speed up IO drastically. Or
wait half a year and do it substantially more cheaply.

~~~
christefano
Here are two reviews of the X25-M SSD you're talking about:

[http://paulstamatiou.com/2008/10/29/review-
intel-x25-m-80gb-...](http://paulstamatiou.com/2008/10/29/review-
intel-x25-m-80gb-ssd)

[http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-
of-...](http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/so-i-got-one-of-new-intel-
ssds.html)

I'm waiting a few months until the 160GB version is available (and costs about
the same as the current 80MB version).

------
markbao
Developers are often seen with MacBook Pros. For example, RailsConf:
<http://flickr.com/photos/twylo/173895378/>

With the new MacBook/Pros, it's basically whether you want a bigger screen or
not, and if you want more GHz of processing power. There are 2.0 and 2.4GHz
MacBooks available, $1300 and $1600, respectively, and MacBook Pros start at
2.4 up, starting at $2000.

To put things in perspective, here is what you're getting for $400 more in the
MacBook Pro 2.4GHz than the MacBook 2.4GHz:

    
    
      - bigger screen
      - extra NVidia <strike>8600M</strike> 9600M GT graphics card
      - FireWire port and ExpressCard port
      - and of course, 2" more of real estate.
    

Or, you might be okay with the 2.0GHz MacBook, if all you are doing is Rails
work, in which case you would save another $300.

So the question basically is, 1) do you want 2.0 or 2.4GHz (suggest 2.4), and
2) do you want the bigger screen, and if so, if that is worth $400 to you
(along with the other stuff.)

~~~
tptacek
In 2008, does anything use the ExpressCard port that you care about? Isn't it
basically obsolete?

You'd say the same about Firewire --- except:

* Losing Firewire also costs you "target disk mode", which lets you mount another Mac as an otherwise inert external hard drive, which is hugely helpful for backing up and restoring machines.

* Firewire is the standard remote debugging interface for the Windows kernel, and is an all-around great debugging interface (Firewire itself is basically nothing but a network protocol hooked directly up to a DMA engine); there's no perfect replacement for it that I know of.

~~~
markbao
ExpressCard _is_ obsolete, and I don't care about it. That's just a list of
the differences between MB and MBP.

It's only useful if you have an old EVDO/3G card that relies on ExpressCard.

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davidmathers
I recommend the one I just bought, the previous generation 2.5 GHz Macbook
Pro. Was $2500 a few weeks ago, now selling on Amazon for $1650:

<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013FLTNS/>

In many ways it's better than the new version. IMO it's the best laptop ever
made.

~~~
davidmathers
I also upgraded it with this RAM from Newegg for $55:

[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231154)

Not only is it 4 GB, but it's lower latency than the stock RAM so it's a
little bit faster.

------
brm
Go for the refurb's from the apple store... cheaper and through more testing
than your normal mac

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gtani
Anything with an Intel core duo or up. G4 powerbooks are slow, always
thrashing the hard drive. Also would avoid 1st gen MB pros, from early 2006,
they were blazingly hot, and you'd get just a few months apple care right now.
avoid Airs, i don't think they've solved core shutdown problem:

[http://paulstamatiou.com/2008/10/26/hopping-on-the-new-
macbo...](http://paulstamatiou.com/2008/10/26/hopping-on-the-new-macbook-pro-
bandwagon)

for inbox specials, refurbs, look at apple store. Also

<http://www.smalldog.com/>

<http://www.powermax.com/>

~~~
tptacek
Apple doesn't sell a laptop with anything less than a Core 2 Duo at this
point. Having burned through at least 4 Macbooks in the last couple years, I
wouldn't buy one used or refurbed.

~~~
ojbyrne
I have a 17" MBP, refurbed, and a macmini, refurbed. Never had a problem. I
used to have a 15" MBP, bought new through work, nothing but problems.

------
wehriam
I can't afford a Ferrari, but I can get the best laptop on the market. And
that's the Macbook Pro. You may be able to find a better value, but you won't
be able to find a better machine. If you have the money, get one.

------
ashleyw
I still have my first gen Macbook Pro (Core Duo 1.83Ghz) and its still running
great for me.

Although I play WoW on it so I wish it was a little faster, and Photoshop
takes its time to open, its great for web development! :)

Screen size is what you should be looking for, I wouldn't want the Macbooks
screen — so you have 2 choices, the new Macbook Pro 15", or the old Macbook
Pro 17". :)

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unalone
I'd say the new MacBook, if you've never got one before and don't need
graphics. It means you have the advantage of the newest design - I disliked
the older MacBooks a lot, personally - and you're not paying for the MBP,
which is double the price and offers a lot of things you don't exactly need.
Then you can customize it with whatever RAM and graphics updates and hard
drives you need.

------
Hates_
The answer depends on your budget :) Personally, I would go for the 2.4Ghz MBP
and buy my own extra memory for it. Saying that though the cheaper 2.4Ghz MB
also looks like a good machine. Question is if you really need a laptop. I
really wanted one, but ended up getting an iMac instead. Looking back I'm very
happy I got a desktop rather then a laptop.

~~~
matt1
Thanks for the tips. Why are you happy about the desktop?

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jhancock
It really depends on your price point. I do ruby dev work (merb, postgres,
nginx) on Mac Air and absolutely _love_ it. Its by far the best laptop
experience I've ever had.

I have not run into any problem with performance for my dev work or for
testing using VMWare Fusion running Windows XP and Ubuntu server.

------
keven
I have my eyes on the 13" 2.0GHz Macbook w/ 4GB Ram and SSD. The price adds up
to be a little more than entry-level MBP. What do you guys think?

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wenbert
Get a maxed out 13-inch macbook pro! it will run for years with no problems.
And you won't get pissed off ;P

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travisjeffery
MacBook

