
Two French rivers disappear underground in cracks and sinkholes - Earth_Change
http://strangesounds.org/2018/08/french-rivers-disappear-underground-doubs-river-has-disappeared-between-pontarlier-and-morteau-1km-swallowed-up-by-large-cracks-in-the-riverbed.html
======
lqet
An interesting and little-known fact is that the Danube in Germany does
exactly the same for roughly 155 days per year [1], which is called
"Donauversinkung" ("swallowing of the Danube"). Between the towns of
Immendingen and Fridingen on the Swabian Alb the water just disappears
underground [2]. This started to happen around 300 years ago, and until the
1870s nobody knew exactly where it went. They then did experiments with Uranin
and ultimately proved that the water re-surfaces in the Aachtopf [3]. Now, the
water from the Aachtopf flows directly into Lake Constance, therefore into the
Rhine, and therefore into the North Sea. Normally, the Danube flows into the
Black Sea, which essentially means that on roughly 155 days per year, the
disappearing water moves the European watershed [4], which I find highly
fascinating.

E: as the Danube laters flows through the once independent state of
Württemberg, and the Rhine through the once independent state of Baden, there
was also a nice court battle between them because of the lost water in the
1920s - the "Donauversinkungsfall" [5] ("the court case of the swallowing of
the Danube")

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube_Sinkhole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube_Sinkhole)

[2]
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Donauver...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Donauversinkung.jpg)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachtopf#/media/File:AachTopfP...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aachtopf#/media/File:AachTopfPano02.jpg)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_watershed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_watershed)

[5]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donauversinkungsfall](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donauversinkungsfall)

~~~
sophistication
Am I understanding correctly that the Danube always seeps into the ground near
Immendingen (since 300 years), but if the conditions are dry enough there is
not enough water to flow past this sink hole, so all of it drains into the
European watershed?

It should be noted that this only the first few hundred meters of the Danube
and it's relatively flat there so the exact way the water sheds is probably
always subject to changes up there (at least across large spans of time).
There are relatively small masses of water that flow up there, so things are
not set in stone as much (literally).

~~~
lqet
This is correct. The main sinkhole is roughly 3 km downstream from the source.
Disappearing water was first noticed 300 years ago, and the first total
disappearance was in the 1870s. It is expected that this process will
eventually make a small creek [1] the new source river of the Danube over the
next 1,000 to 10,000 years.

There is a group of hobby enthusiasts who are digging into the cave system
since 1990 [2], expecting to find a cave containing an enormous underground
lake, as the amount of water disappearing into the underground is much larger
than the amount of water later carried by the Aach. AFAIR, they managed to
finally reach the underground river ~15 years ago. arte did a documentary
about them, called "Die schwarze Donau" ("The black Danube"). You find it on
YouTube, but it's in German.

E: here is an image of the underground Danube found by the hobbyists mentioned
above after 13 years of digging: [http://www.wolfgang-
bauer.info/pages/reportagen/schwarze_don...](http://www.wolfgang-
bauer.info/pages/reportagen/schwarze_donau/gfx/gfx_content_breit.jpg)

E2: if you are interested in the subject, I highly recommend visiting the
Skocjan cave in Slovenia, which was also formed in a karst region by an
underground river. I found the visit to be an almost surreal experience
[3][4][5].

[1]
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kr%C3%A4henbach_(Donau)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kr%C3%A4henbach_\(Donau\))

[2] [http://www.wolfgang-
bauer.info/pages/reportagen/schwarze_don...](http://www.wolfgang-
bauer.info/pages/reportagen/schwarze_donau/schwarze_donau.html)

[3] [https://cache-
graphicslib.viator.com/graphicslib/thumbs674x4...](https://cache-
graphicslib.viator.com/graphicslib/thumbs674x446/41626/SITours/one-day-karst-
and-sunny-vipava-valley-tour-in-bovec-538902.jpg)

[4] [https://cdn.tourismontheedge.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/02/...](https://cdn.tourismontheedge.com/wp-
content/uploads/2011/02/DSC_2293_skocjanske_jame_cerkvenikov_most_big.jpg)

[5] [http://www.pension-
silvia.si/images/activities/the_skocjan_c...](http://www.pension-
silvia.si/images/activities/the_skocjan_caves/pension_silvia_the_skocjan_caves_05.jpg)

~~~
yread
interesting. You can visit a similar cave system with an underground river
(and go on a boat ride) in Czech Republic
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punkva_Caves](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punkva_Caves)

------
Loic
For the Doubs, this is well-known that it is losing water under its bed and
that the Loue river is this water coming out at a different point.

You can see the source of the Loue[0] on the Wikipedia page. The river is
basically coming out of the mountain with already a very high flow rate. This
is one of the nicest river in the east part of France, it is a pleasure to
walk along or navigate it.

Edit: Found videos[1] where you can see the holes sucking the water in the
river bed.

[0]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loue)

[1]: [https://www.estrepublicain.fr/edition-haut-
doubs/2018/07/31/...](https://www.estrepublicain.fr/edition-haut-
doubs/2018/07/31/doubs-a-sec-entre-pontarlier-et-morteau-les-failles-
responsables)

~~~
wott
> _This connection with the Doubs was only discovered in 1901 when a spillage
> from the Pernod factory into the Doubs was transmitted into the Loue._

Suits my definition of drinking water.

------
mirimir
This is one reason why it's prudent to scout rapids before running them. For
example, sections of the Brule River in Minnesota are runnable above and below
Devil’s Kettle.[0] And by the time you saw the drop, it'd be too late to avoid
the falls or sinkhole.

Even so, sinkholes can be subtle enough to miss, and still fatal.[1] Karst is
some dangerous geology for boating. Although riverbeds are generally quite
smooth, which is pleasant enough if you go for a swim.

0) [http://www.startribune.com/scientists-think-they-ve-
solved-t...](http://www.startribune.com/scientists-think-they-ve-solved-the-
mystery-of-devil-s-kettle-falls/414996694/)

1) [https://www.boston.com/news/national-
news/2018/06/12/sinkhol...](https://www.boston.com/news/national-
news/2018/06/12/sinkhole-whirlpool-arkansas-river-kayaker-dies)

------
newswriter99
No discussion on why the cracks and sinkholes appeared. I'm looking around on
Google but it seems there's very little information (in English anyway).

~~~
davio
My neighborhood lake disappeared in a similar manner. We have Karst geology in
Missouri. Might be similar.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karst](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karst)

~~~
gplessis
I grew up in the Risle Valley, that is pictured in the video. I can confirm
that we have the same geology. For only a few years, the river is disappearing
every summer, which sounds surprising in a global warming context. But no big
deal here, just geology.

------
jguimont
It says 13 days ago, but the linked video is from 2012?!

~~~
duxup
My local newspaper is the same way.

Talks about a very visual thing .... doesn't have any photos.

It's crazy because all those media companies fired their photographers and in
the age of the internet ... __PHOTOS AND VIDEOS ARE IMPORTANT! __

------
chiffre01
Similar situation for the Popo Agie River near Lander, Wyoming. Only it
resurfaces soon after going underground.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinks_Canyon_State_Park](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinks_Canyon_State_Park)

~~~
glup
This pattern is fairly common when there is karstic geology, but also happens
in other cases:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_river](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subterranean_river)

I don't know how common seasonal variation is (per the other comment about the
Danube doing a similar thing to the French river).

------
fuzzfactor
In Florida, one of the branches of the Suwannee disappears into the Santa Fe
River sink at O'Leano [0], supposedly travels 5 more miles underground, then
comes back up three miles away at River Rise [1].

[0]
[https://www.floridastateparks.org/park/Oleno](https://www.floridastateparks.org/park/Oleno)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JiXOk1pXus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JiXOk1pXus)

[1] [https://www.floridastateparks.org/park/River-
Rise](https://www.floridastateparks.org/park/River-Rise)

------
neonate
Cached:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PpWRy3i...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PpWRy3isPKAJ:strangesounds.org/2018/08/french-
rivers-disappear-underground-doubs-river-has-disappeared-between-pontarlier-
and-morteau-1km-swallowed-up-by-large-cracks-in-the-
riverbed.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

------
rmason
In Detroit the buried rivers are called the ghost waters. There has been talk
on and off about resurfacing some of them where practical. Can you imagine a
gondola ride in the Motor City? Something that I'd sure like to see in my
lifetime.

[http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/ghostwater413.aspx](http://www.modeldmedia.com/features/ghostwater413.aspx)

------
leandrod
Sensationalism all the way. At least one of the rivers has seen it already in
1 976 (quite recently as far as Geology and Topography go) and several other
rivers in several parts of the world do the same or similar things.

Worst case scenario, the water permanently goes elsewhere, either to an
aquifer or to another river or lake. People adapt. End of history.

~~~
irrational
>End of history.

So, you are saying this is an Armageddon level event?

------
MithrilTuxedo
This sounds related to Eurasia losing enough groundwater to affect the
movement of the North Pole.

[https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2016-100](https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2016-100)

~~~
Zancarius
Read the article. It's from the area's Karst topography.

------
deedubaya
Same with the Lost rivers in Idaho

