
Pebble is dead and hardware buttons are going with it - allenleein
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/27/16936922/pebble-smartwatch-hardware-button-physical-controls
======
ElKoji
The author purposely ignores Garmin, who is one of the biggest player in Smart
watches, after Apple and among Samsung and Fitbit. They make a strong case of
buttons over touch screens, mostly because athletes prefer them, buttons are
easy to operate without looking at the screen and the only way when the screen
is wet, something that is meant to happen even if you don’t swim at all. But
he even ignores the fact that Fitbit themselves always use a combination of
touch screen and buttons, including their newest watch The Ionic. I hate when
a headline is fabricated this way.

~~~
tallanvor
I sort of consider real fitness watches, like the Garmin line to be in a
different category from smartwatches. My Fenix 3, especially when paired with
a chest strap feels like an actual tool for me, whereas the smartwatches I've
seen and tried were more like toys.

I don't think I can ever switch back to a touchscreen watch until there's one
that still has the physical buttons, but also lets you disable the touchscreen
functionality during workouts - beyond the difficulty getting the touches to
register, sweat has enough minerals that the screen sill start registering
false touches, which can wreak havoc during a workout when it starts pausing
things!

And, of course, with my Fenix 3, I normally charge it less than once a week
unless I need to use GPS on it. Touchscreen smartwatches simply don't get that
type of battery life.

~~~
scarface74
Capacitive touch screens don't work well if your hands are sweaty. I couldn't
understand for the life of me why Garmin ever introduced a capacitive touch
screen watch.

I thought my old Garmin GPS watch was amazing when I first got it around 2010.

~~~
tallanvor
I certainly can understand why they released a watch with a touchscreen.
They're trying to appeal to people who aren't necessarily as serious about
fitness (or rather, don't feel the need/desire to closely track their
workouts), but do want to start doing more, and want some of the benefits that
they've heard smartwatches are supposed to offer.

I think the smartwatch fad is actually good in some ways, because it is
forcing Garmin to look at what they can realistically add into their core
watches to help make them more appealing, while still not turning them into a
full smartwatch until the technology is there.

And I'm calling smartwatches a fad for now because they really are at the
moment. The potential for them to be more than a fad is there, but the
technology, specifically battery life, isn't there, and the current lineups
don't offer a compelling story about why we should consider them an integral
piece of technology to keep with us all the time.

------
Johnny555
Touchscreens are awful on a device that you might want to use in the rain...
like a watch.

I have a Garmin sport watch with a touch screen (plus two physical buttons).
If you're out in the rain and need to change modes on a run or bike ride, it's
nearly impossible, you need to stop, bend over to shield the watch with your
body, dry your finger on your shirt (assuming you have a dry spot), then
_then_ you can usually use the touchscreen.

Once it's set to the right mode, the 2 physical buttons work well, but
anything that requires the touchscreen is nearly impossible without stopping
what you're doing.

(at least that's the case with whatever touchscreen technology Garmin uses,
maybe there's a better option for use in the rain)

~~~
viperscape
Older resistance style touchscreen s would work well here, this is where the
capacitance screens fail easily.

~~~
Steltek
I believe resistive screens are also better for battery life, which you'd
think would be critical for a watch.

------
djsumdog
I still have a Pebble Steel. I hope the services get open sourced, because if
not, it will never work with another phone after the cut-off in July. It's one
of the huge disadvantages of how we distribute software today; the
bastardization of the Linux software repository into these stupid non-
mirrorable/non-free app stores.

It's also sad no phone has slide-out keyboards any more. I'm sure there are
several people who would take the thickness trade-off. If a major manufacture
produced a physical keyboard phone, there probably would be demand. One of the
earliest HTC android devices, after the Evo 4G, was a version with a slide out
keyboard. Now the only option seems to be BlueBerries.

~~~
RainaRelanah
> One of the earliest HTC android devices, after the Evo 4G, was a version
> with a slide out keyboard.

The first Android phone (let alone the first HTC Android) was the HTC Dream,
with a physical keyboard. Back in those days Android didn't even have a
software keyboard -- you had to use the physical keyboard.

By the time the Evo 4g came out, hardware keyboards were already considered
second class citizens. The Evo Shift 4g had a worse screen, worse camera, and
a worse CPU than the Evo 4g despite being released a year later.

Thankfully a few companies have picked up the UMPC market, with products like
the GPD Win and the Gemini PDA. I don't need a hardware keyboard on my phone,
but I do need a portable device with one for emergency SSH sessions while on
the road.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
I continue to retain the belief that hardware vendors intentionally killed
keyboard sliders by making them worse phones than their non-keyboard
counterparts, then claiming they didn't need to build them because nobody
wanted them. They sat a full year behind in hardware specs in most cases.

~~~
RainaRelanah
I don't believe it is the only reason, but it certainly significantly hurt
them. They're also less attractive/bulkier, have less room for battery, are
more expensive to design/manufacture, have higher failure rates, etc. I would
still pay ridiculous amounts for a phone with flagship specs and flagship
build quality, with a physical keyboard.

------
lettergram
God I miss my Pebble (had a Pebble Time 2)... I took it off when it was bought
and haven't put it back on (pull of the bandaid).

It was pretty much better than any of my friends watches. We used to trade to
try them out. I hate the iWatch because the bettery died all the time and I
hate the touch screen (I love dials too). The android wear was a bit more my
style, but again battery life sucked and I didn't like it wasn't eInk.

Honestly, give me an option to pay double for a pebble and I would. The Pebble
Time 2 was the best watch I've ever owned bar none.

~~~
SyneRyder
Wait, you had a Pebble Time 2? And you didn't wear it?!!

The Time 2 is legendary with Pebble fans, as it was cancelled and never sold
commercially, and Kickstarter backers were given refunds. Only a handful went
out to employees & reviewers:

[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/12/7/13864804/p...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/12/7/13864804/pebble-
time-2-core-canceled-fitbit-deal)

I still use my Pebble Time Steel and love it, and I'm not sure what I'll move
to next. The Fitbit Ionic is meant to be the successor (and it has hardware
buttons too, despite what the Verge article says). But it doesn't have a
microphone, and I use that a lot on my Pebble. It's useful for dictating SMS
replies when I'm out running, or for setting quick reminder alarms with Snowy
(Pebble's version of Alexa / Siri).

------
scarface74
_I lost the ability to just plug in my headphones and skip between songs on my
iPod while drifting off to sleep on planes._

Where has he been for the last 10 years? You've always been able to use
headphone buttons to skip between songs on iPhones/iPod touches.

My wife just started teaching fitness classss. She uses this to control music
while she is teaching:

[https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Bluetooth-Button-iPhone-
Samsu...](https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Bluetooth-Button-iPhone-
Samsung/dp/B00RM75NL0)

~~~
danieldk
Small footnote: the iPod Touch comes with Earpods without controls.

------
PaulBGD_
I just bought a Pebble 2 SE and it's absolutely phenomenal. I'm hoping over
the next few months an open source OS comes out, otherwise I'll have to look
for a worse alternative.

~~~
Fnoord
There's 2 main alternatives for smartwatch OS:

For Pebble there is Rebble [1] and for touchscreen smartwatches there is
AsteroidOS [2]. You wanna look at the first although most functions of the
stock firmware should remain working. They'll for sure stay running till June
2018.

As for the subject (I skimmed through the article), I think its true. I own a
Pebble 2 as well and I'd love to buy a smartwatch with similar features (7
days battery life, music control, customisable watchface, stepcounter,
calendar, alarms, Google Drive app, workout app, 2FA app, to-do list app, and
4 hardware buttons or some inventive way to be easily usable during sports
(the scrollwheels don't cut it)). I haven't found any (nevermind the price of
the Pebble being very competitive). Mind you, I did find some devices which
were _very_ good at _some_ of these features.

[1] [https://rebble.io](https://rebble.io)

[2] [https://asteroidos.org/about/](https://asteroidos.org/about/)

~~~
asciimo
Battery life keeps me from buying a successor to my pebble. The Samsung Gear
watches are alluring except for daily charging.

~~~
mikestew
This former Pebble owner is quite happy with his Garmin Fenix and it’s week-
long battery life. You’ll pay through the nose for it (US$500), but Garmin
might have less expensive options with good battery life. I paid the money
because I actually use the stuff that makes it cost $500, but something like a
620 might suit you for less dosh.

~~~
Fnoord
Vivoactive 3 also has a week uptime if you do not use GPS [1] Vivoactive HR
can do with 8 days even. Both assumes you don't use the GPS. When you use
that, battery life is far less, but you don't use that 24/7.

I'm quite lost with regards to Garmin as in which devices do what. I feel like
I'm lost in a forest. If anyone has a comparison website, I'd love to read
such. From what I can tell it appears the Fenix has hardware buttons which the
Vivoactive's doesn't.

[1] [https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/571520](https://buy.garmin.com/en-
US/US/p/571520)

------
paulryanrogers
Maybe for screen equipped wearables we'll see buttons disappear. Though I
doubt keyboards on laptops and game controller buttons will be replaced any
time soon. Consider the move from tablets to laptops and paper in schools.

------
ignobleParting
Pebble was a terrible device, and riddled with horrble design decisions.

From the word “go” you knew Pebble was trying to lock you in, register and
count you as a user, log demographic information about you, and tether that
information to unique device identifiers.

You could not simply use Pebble as a watch, if so desired. Pebble enforced
specific behaviors onto the user.

For example, you couldn’t just like the looks of the watch, buy it, take it
out of the box, wear it, and use it to tell time. No.

Open the box, and the watch directs you to an internet connection, so it can
phone home to the mothership. Really? _Really?_

To me, that reeks of exploitation, and the goal was never to provide people
with a good watch that does stuff. Open the box, and push people around. Make
them clap their hands and sing along.

Sorry guys. You made serious mistakes. People notice. Good riddance.

~~~
wvenable
It's a smartwatch -- the watch didn't have a full OS installed when you first
turn it on. It's meant to be paired with a phone. If you just want a watch
without smart features then just get a watch. This complaint is ridiculous and
nobody who owned a Pebble would take it seriously.

Pebble failed because they needed better marketing, took VC money so they
needed to grow fast, and focused on unnecessary hardware addons that nobody
wanted (smart straps).

There are still plenty of people buying out the remaining Pebble hardware. It
was a good device and pretty good ecosystem.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _and focused on unnecessary hardware addons that nobody wanted (smart
> straps)._

Frankly, for me the "nobody wanted" part was the fitness focus - I initially
got my Pebble _precisely_ because they didn't try the sports angle like
everyone else, but instead went for a hacker-friendly device and architecture.
I'm not even sure if they put much resources into smartstraps - they just
added and described a communication protocol. It wouldn't surprise me if this
was just repackaging of a debugging functionality they needed.

It's hard for me to say where things went wrong. Maybe they just tried to grow
too fast.

~~~
wvenable
Actually the part general consumers wanted was the fitness part -- this is
what put them seriously behind other more poorly designed watches like the
Fitbit. They didn't see the fitness angle until it was too late.

Certainly there's no reason why a fitness angle had to interfere with the
hacker-friendly architecture.

~~~
loulouxiv
I remember reading a post mortem interview of th founder around these lines,
but can't find it anymore. They went all-in on the fitness thing when they
found out the big market was there, thinking of it as their last chance for
survival. Ironically I think that was what killed them in the end. Since they
had a very loyal customer base (yes maybe not very big but enough so every
kickstarter they launched was a massive success) they probably could have
lived aside Fitbit, Apple etc. Reducing their burn rate by focussing on their
market segment (productivity watch) and not trying to launch several products
every year would probably have kept them afloat.

~~~
wvenable
Unfortunately since they took VC money they couldn't just sit by and be a
small player with a loyal customer base. That would have been the ideal
position for them and could have kept them going for a long time. But that
doesn't satisfy their investors that wanted to see a high return on their
investment.

They never even really got their fitness side off the ground before they died.
The Pebble 2 was their first fitness focused watch and they were already dead
when it came out.

The Pebble Round with a heart-rate monitor would have sold like hotcakes to
women with the right marketing.

------
WhyNotHugo
If the intention is to skip songs and change volume when listening to music,
can't you just use the buttons on your headphones?

I understand that there may be value for hardware buttons, but the example
given by the author is a pretty much covered by simple headphone buttons.

~~~
jakobegger
Not if you have Airpods...

------
iveqy
Buttons on smartwatches isn't dead. There are just a bit more niche:
[https://www.kronaby.com/](https://www.kronaby.com/)

------
goldenkey
I have touchscreen gloves - never had any problems even for the 5 years I
spent in Buffalo.

I recommend Agloves because they have awesome customer support incase your
gloves have knit issues. They sent me a pair of the thicker ones for free when
I asked for help with a pair that had some stray threads.

Here is an amazon link: [http://amzn.to/2Eg8MUc](http://amzn.to/2Eg8MUc)

------
wvenable
I have a Gear S3 now (used to own a Pebble) and I rarely touch the screen to
do anything (except to treat it as a big button). You can do most navigation
with the buttons and the ring around the outside.

Between that and the always-on-display it's a good replacement for the Pebble.

------
TechLeadVic
Use a Casio G-Shock with bluetooth if you want control your music. 2 year
battery time too.

~~~
gravypod
I've never heard of these. Do you have any links to store pages? Everything I
find seems to be crazy expensive/discontinued.

~~~
shakna
Casio watches tend to be "crazy expensive", or more than everyone else anyway.

So far as I can see G-Shocks range from $200-$1100 [0], which is about normal
for a Casio. The one with bluetooth, the G'MIX, is around $350, [1] which
sounds about right for them (their famous calculator watch is 50+, even though
its fairly basic).

[0]
[https://www.bevilles.com.au/watches/g-shock](https://www.bevilles.com.au/watches/g-shock)

[1] [https://www.bevilles.com.au/casio-g-shock-bluetooth-g-mix-
se...](https://www.bevilles.com.au/casio-g-shock-bluetooth-g-mix-series-model-
gba400-1a9)

~~~
Cyberdog
Are you talking American dollars? Don't know about the others, but Casio's
awesome calculator watches can be had for less than US$16.
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GB1R7S/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=...](https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000GB1R7S/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1517176444&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=casio+calculator+watch&dpPl=1&dpID=41EWHarBxJL&ref=plSrch)

------
wyclif
This article explains part of my rationale why, later this week when I get my
new MacBook Pro, I'm going to opt for the non-Touch Bar version.

------
HumanDrivenDev
Watch hardware buttons come back in a mainstream product in 5-10 years, and be
touted as a revolutionary new feature.

------
stmw
Does on touchscreens help with driving more engagement metrics and/or
advertising screen time?

~~~
RainaRelanah
I doubt it. It's more about consumer perception. Hardware buttons aren't
futuristic, touchscreens are. And smart watches are largely a futuristic niche
product. Pre-purchase consumers want better specs and often neglect the
practicality of those decisions (battery life of OLED panels and touchscreens,
usability of a 1 inch touchscreen interface, etc).

------
dingo_bat
Classic verge bullshit where they assume everything apple does is innovative
and "the future". If you look at the general market you will find things like
note8, which adds a hardware button, pixel2 which adds a hardware squeeze
detector, gear s3 which adds a physical circular wheel.

I promise you verge will soon publish an article indignantly explaining how
every touchscreen needs a notch on the top that looks ugly and obscures
viewing area.

