
Apply HN: Magako, AI for Math Tutoring - S4M
Magako is an AI based on symbolic mathematics to help teenagers in math. Think of something like Mathematica used to correct math exercises and show hints when a student is stuck. The UI allows to solve exercises interactively as shown in this video: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;honHcFguXsQ<p>I know there are many apps or websites offering some kind of online math exercises, but I believe the AI makes Magako unique.<p>I have built a prototype version for the web ( http:&#x2F;&#x2F;magako.com ) and for Android ( https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=org.test.magako ), the latter having a bit more math content.
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tiplus
This has the potential to become a cool app but I think it should
differentiate from other offerings in the features it provides to the user and
not in the way the backend is implemented. You might want to tell people s.th.
along the lines of 'look, my deluxe new AI gives you annotated solutions for
hard math problem X which no other app can help you with...'

I am sure you are aware of [http://math-42.com](http://math-42.com) which is
quite similar (developed by high school kids, afaik). They claim to use their
own math AI, too. It might be very tough to compete with them without offering
additional features.

Could you modify your AI to cover math problems which I cannot practice with
math-42? Or maybe add features such as formula recognition with your smart
phone, etc.

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S4M
Hey, thanks for the comment!

I wasn't aware of math-42, thanks for pointing it out. From looking at their
websites, they seem to be mainly focused on solving exercises for students
while I correct students work (they have a beta training that might do that,
but that's not what they are currently focusing on).

> Could you modify your AI to cover math problems which I cannot practice with
> math-42? Or maybe add features such as formula recognition with your smart
> phone, etc.

Yes, that's exactly what's on my pipeline. I plan to cover everything in high
school, ideally helping the students to prepare for exams at the end of high
school.

> They claim to use their own math AI, too. It might be very tough to compete
> with them without offering additional features.

Honestly, education is a huge space and a competitor is the last of my worries
(I am more concerned about getting users first), and they are many apps or
website that already that are here to help students in math.

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brudgers
Is there academic research underpinning the pedagogical approach?

Does the underlying technology use a domain specific language in the vein of
Mathmatica/Wolfram?

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S4M
> Is there academic research underpinning the pedagogical approach?

I can't quote direct articles but I have seen some trends in trying to make
education in general more interactive.

> Does the underlying technology use a domain specific language in the vein of
> Mathmatica/Wolfram?

Yes, I wrote (and am still writing, in fact) my own symbolic algebra software.
I tried to use some open source CAS (Maxima and Sympy) but I found that the
way theirs codes are structured doesn't allow to offer hints on how to solve
an exercise, without putting lots of work in it.

~~~
brudgers
Why did you choose middle school mathematics in particular or education in
general as "the killer app" for the symbolic algebra software?

~~~
S4M
Two reasons:

\- I originally wanted to build a symbolic algebra software to compete with
Wolfram's Mathematica but realized it would require too much work for a solo
founder.

\- Math had always been my favorite subject and I saw studies about the
decline of math level in first world countries so I thought I could try to
help.

~~~
brudgers
I believe education is a commodity market. Sales happen in bulk and large
sales via public bids, government allocations, and lobbying. I suspect that in
the first world, textbook companies are likely to be harder competitors than
Wolfram Research: the market is a finite pie and the businesses are relatively
low margin.

I don't think the technical challenge of building a symbolic algebra problem
changes much with two cofounders, i.e. if there was a business person one
person would still be writing all the code. Which is to say, developing a
symbolic algebra package is audacious no matter how it gets sliced.

The solo founder challenges are not so much technical as social and
psychological. The educational angle means piling the study of pedagogical
research and analysis of pedagogical methods _on top of_ all the business
stuff. Because middle school age children are minors it also means it's going
to be hard to get direct access to end users, comply with privacy laws, and
separate willing use from mandated use.

~~~
S4M
> I believe education is a commodity market. Sales happen in bulk and large
> sales via public bids, government allocations, and lobbying. I suspect that
> in the first world, textbook companies are likely to be harder competitors
> than Wolfram Research: the market is a finite pie and the businesses are
> relatively low margin.

You are right, but only if you say that the education market is limited to
apps and books used by schools. However, there is also a market for apps or
books to help to prepare for exams or simply understand some notions better -
tiplus mentioned math-42, and there are many others. My plan is to fight on
this market first, and if I get some recognition, I will attack the much
harder market of the schools.

> I don't think the technical challenge of building a symbolic algebra problem
> changes much with two cofounders, i.e. if there was a business person one
> person would still be writing all the code. Which is to say, developing a
> symbolic algebra package is audacious no matter how it gets sliced.

> The solo founder challenges are not so much technical as social and
> psychological. The educational angle means piling the study of pedagogical
> research and analysis of pedagogical methods on top of all the business
> stuff.

Another observation that is true: no matter how hard the work on symbolic
algebra is, the work on the pedagogy is even harder - I am finding out at the
moment.

> Because middle school age children are minors it also means it's going to be
> hard to get direct access to end users, comply with privacy laws, and
> separate willing use from mandated use.

In fact I am thinking of targeting parents who care about the education of
their kids. I noticed that people who have a scientific background seem more
interested in the concept of an AI to teach math than "normal" parents.

~~~
brudgers
My gut feeling is that "replacing Mathematica" might be a stronger idea to
pitch to investors with a "Silicon Valley mindset" and an "middle school math
app" better for pitching to a local investment club due to the differences is
the risk/reward profile of both groups. Of course both groups will use the
term "startup", but something with an annual internal rate of return of 20%
qualifies for the locals and something with a 20x exit after five years is
"meh" in Silicon Valley.

The local investors probably won't care much about symbolic algebra and a 20%
IRR will be driven by Facebook ads and SEO and Product Hunt accompanied by
phrases like "Best math app". On the other hand, "symbolic algebra like
Mathematica" lights up sparks in at least a few people's eyes...it's the sort
of thing that people seek out with the passion of technical geeks rather than
the vague interest of concerned parents as consumers.

I'd suggest looking at Thiel's "competition is for losers". An SEO fight
against "coolmathgames.com" for kids' attention, classroom utility in terms of
keeping bored kids occupied, and the plausible deniablity it provides adults
is not conducive to a lighting war. It's trenchfoot and mud and barbed wire.

Good luck.

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brudgers
Video: [https://youtu.be/honHcFguXsQ](https://youtu.be/honHcFguXsQ)

Clickable to webpage: [http://magako.com](http://magako.com)

Clickable to Google Play store:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.test.magak...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.test.magako)

