
Diamonds Suck (2006) - Tomte
http://diamondssuck.com/
======
joshkaufman
I'm the OP - surprised to see this at the top of HN today, but happy to post a
quick update:

My wife and I have been happily married for ten years now. She loves her ring,
and it has held up extremely well. (She just had the band resized, absolutely
no issues with the stones.)

No one has ever thought it was anything other than a diamond ring, which
includes several years of daily scrutiny from crazy New York City brides in
her role as a bridal gown sales manager in a high-end atelier in Midtown
Manhattan. Those who know about the stones think they're beautiful and love
that there's a good alternative to diamond.

I stand by everything I said in this essay, and would 100% recommend
moissanite to anyone who is (or will soon be) in the jewelry market.

~~~
jakewins
Wife and I had read the Atlantic article before it was too late, went with
plain wedding bands for both of us. However, living in America, this is
causing issues for her, continuously having to explain to friends and
acquaintances why she does not have a diamond.

We'd been looking for used rings as an alternative - hence, thank you very
much for writing this, you just saved me and my wife several thousand dollars.

~~~
stephencanon
> having to explain to friends and acquaintances why she does not have a
> diamond.

I don't think this is a universal "in America" thing. Maybe in some parts of
the country, but here in the northeast it seems like it's none of their
business; I can't imagine asking someone to explain it, and I would think
someone who did ask was being awfully nosy. FWIW my wife has a diamond ring
which she almost never wears, and I can't remember anyone ever asking about
it. My parents wear plain gold wedding bands only, and I've never heard anyone
ask them about it either.

~~~
ScottBurson
My wife and I, living in the SF Bay area and having no regard for convention
whatsoever -- and not really liking diamonds -- went with a sapphire for her
ring. She tells me that other women do sometimes ask her about it. This is
unfathomable to me, but there it is.

~~~
shawndumas
same area; we went with ruby. they ask her about her ring all the time...
though she reports never feeling judged.

------
sametmax
Seems like an american things really. In France, nobody would expect anyone to
buy a certain kind of ring. As long as it's pretty, you can go for anything.
Or no engagement ring. Some friends of mine don't even get wedding rings. And
I just met a not married couple wearing rings just because they liked it.

Our wedding ceremonies are also usually way cheaper and less show off that the
ones your pop culture is selling to you, so I hope you are not actually doing
it IRL cause that seems a terrible way to start a long term relationship,
money wise.

But I guess we don't have such a marriage culture here anymore. People do
marry, but we also now have something called the PACS, which is a very simple
legal union with no bells and whistles that is pretty popular. And of course
plenty of people living for ever without a label on their relationship.

~~~
beevai142
Given that the diamond ring fad apparently originated from a marketing
campaign, it would be interesting to see how well the belief that wedding
rings should have a diamond correlates with where the ads were run.

At least in the nordics, I don't think there's a specific type of wedding
(EDIT: or engagement) ring that you're expected to have, and I think many
people have no stone of any kind embedded in theirs.

~~~
bluejekyll
It's the engagement ring that traditionally has a stone, not the wedding band,
which is often just a pure metal (in the US), though many have small stones
around the ring.

~~~
asmala
In Nordic countries, the order is reversed. We wear simple bands after the
engagement, and give the fancier ring during the wedding.

------
Moshe_Silnorin
So people do this to signal (both to their spouse and their friends) they are
both financially capable and care enough about their spouse to burn a large
amount of money on a pyre. It's also a very useful signal that you are serious
about the commitment and unlikely to back off of the marriage. I would prefer
to replace it with a certificate that proves you have spent X thousand dollars
on said certificate from Moche Silnorin Inc. A less personally-beneficial
alternative would be some sort of modern dowery, the recipient of which is
Moche Silnorin Inc, who holds on to the money until the culmination of the
marriage, after which the dowery is given to the wife and so reunited with its
giver once they share finances. If the engagement gets broken off, Moche
Silnorin Inc keeps the money. However, this raises the possibility of
bondsmen. Which isn't a possibility with diamonds, with their awful resale
value. So perhaps just a non-refundable expense in exchange for proof you've
given X thousand dollars to Moche Silnorin Inc would be ideal.

~~~
morgante
Exactly this. The problem with every diamond critique I see is that their very
first argument against diamonds is that they're expensive when that is, in
fact, the entire point.

Likewise, all the people who cry foul about the De Beers conspiracy are
neglecting the fact that this does absolutely nothing to reduce their signal
value. If I spend a large sum of money on something which I _know_ to be
worthless just to start my engagement, that's an even better commitment than
spending a large sum of money on something which I think is worthless.

People who are anti-diamond should really focus on coming up with alternative
signals which has better social outcomes. I would personally prefer some sort
of trust, where if the engagement is successful the money is donated to our
preferred charity—but if it's not, it's donated to a politician I despise.

If we're dead-set on continuing to use pretty rocks as signals, someone should
establish a monopoly on a gem which is _impossible_ to procure from exploiting
conflicts. They should still make it extremely expensive, but have all the
mining be ethical.

~~~
Can_Not
> If we're dead-set on continuing to use pretty rocks as signals

Why do we need signals? Why does the social contract of marriage need an
expensive down payment on essentially nothing? These are things modern
cultures should be distancing themselves from. The down payment should be for
a house or apartment, or just anything useful.

~~~
morgante
> Why do we need signals?

Signals are an essential aspect of human behavior. I don't think trying to
eliminate signaling is a productive goal.

You yourself brought up the "social contract" of marriage. A contract is not
very powerful if there aren't consequences for breaking it. So that's one
crucial signal: we are committed enough to this relationship to spend money on
something which is _only_ useful as a signal.

There's also the signals of "my mate is wealthy enough to buy me an expensive
diamond" and "he cares enough about me to spend a large sum of money on
something which has no useful purpose besides signaling his love for me."
Simply wishing that these signals didn't exist won't make them go away.

Useful things make poor signals because you might buy them without any
intention of signaling anything. That's why glasses are a worse signal than
jewelry, even though they cost just as much: you might be spending money on
glasses because you need to see, not because you have money to burn.

~~~
Can_Not
Yes, that is the exact kind of ritualistic barbarianism that modern societies
should be avoiding. There's nearly endless better ways to have that money
spent, even before you get to the "blood" part of blood diamonds.

------
ftrflyr
I told my girlfriend (5 years) how I feel about diamonds and that I reject the
very notion of buying a diamond engagement / wedding ring early on in our
relationship.

Several months ago, we landed on the marriage conversation, again. I
reiterated that I am against diamond engagement bands. She then said: "What
about a wedding ring then?" I told her it applies to wedding rings as well. We
got into a heated argument and she eventually said: "Let's just not talk about
it anymore." What? Let's not talk about marriage anymore because I am against
diamond engagement wedding rings and wedding bands?

Umm...Okay!

TL;DR GF said she doesn't want to get married unless I show her how much I
love her by getting a diamond wedding ring or engagement ring.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Did you get to the point of explaining _why_ you're against diamonds? Was she
able to tell you _why_ she wants a diamond in particular? To resolve this
issue it would be good to exchange the exact, real reasons why one side wants
the diamond and the other doesn't. But even then, it may end up your GF will
insist on the diamond - while all the rational-in-the-vacuum reasons are
against diamonds, there's this whole thing called culture, social pressure and
someone spending half of their life imagining the perfect diamond ring. Those
are perfectly valid reasons too. So if she insist, don't be angry at her - be
angry at De Beers.

~~~
jakebellacera
> So if she insist, don't be angry at her - be angry at De Beers.

I completely agree. My fiancé and I are currently two engaged Americans, and
we had a couple conversations about how we envision our wedding ceremony to
happen. For the most part, we had very casual viewpoints on marriage (we don't
need to make a big deal out of it), but she wanted a ring and I wasn't too hot
on giving De Beers more money. She agreed with me, even admitted that it was a
silly notion to have a diamond ring, but I can tell it's what she truly
wanted.

At the end of the day, I decided to go with the diamond and she really loves
it. If I had gotten my way, I would've gone with an alternative like
moissanite or a synthetic, but we're both happy with the outcome.

It's good to see that Americans are starting to wake up about wedding culture,
but I'm anticipating that it will take a few generations for most people to
rid themselves of it. If I purchased an alternative gemstone for my fiancé,
her parents would've been upset with me, but if my child wanted to get an
alternative gemstone, I would praise them.

~~~
rincebrain
What about the synthetic diamond excluded it from the options?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Synthetic != "the real deal", which makes it (perceived as) worthless.

~~~
rincebrain
I know that's the argument for various people, I just wondered whether that
was the case for their spouse, since synthetic is definitely a real diamond,
albeit not one that took centuries to grow.

------
tjic
When we got engaged I put the money I would have spent on a ring towards
buying a farm (as someone said in a thread on news.yc "oh, you're The Farm
Guy!").

My wife thanks me almost literally every day for the farm. I don't think she'd
appreciate a diamond ring nearly as much.

When it came time to actually get married I dropped around $2 or $2.5k on gold
casting grain, carving wax, a small burn out kiln, a crucible, etc., and made
wax blanks for our rings on my Sherline lathe, then cast them in gold using
the burn out kiln and my blacksmithing forge.

Meanwhile, she sewed her own dress from scratch.

After the small church ceremony we had everyone back to our house for BLTs and
tomato soup, using home made bacon and home made bread, etc.

Our complete wedding cost maybe $3,000 or $3,500 and the cost was dominated by
the burn out kiln and the gold.

The good news is that the kiln and accessories still get used: a few weeks ago
she carved a belt buckle from wax and I cast it in bronze.

My advice: eschew consumerism. A DIY lifestyle is a lot more fun.

[ edit ] here's a pix of my first practice rings in silver, and then one of
the rough cast gold rings before cleanup.
[https://goo.gl/photos/tdLEjxQipMS2ZtQh8](https://goo.gl/photos/tdLEjxQipMS2ZtQh8)

------
arieskg
I never knew moissanite existed, thank you for the unknown.

I am skeptical of the post—the argument is diamond sucks, but after reading
the post, it appears to be “diamond sucks, buy moisanite instead.” 1). Why is
there only one alternative? 2). Why does it matter that people will assume the
ring is diamond? 3). Let’s assume all diamonds are subsidizing African
warlords. How would I know if my hard-earned money isn’t subsidizing some
Chinese manufacturers known to exploit human labor?

I would be getting more “bling for my buck” if it was the same commodity. You
mentioned that others wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between
moisanite and diamond, but if moisanite is better than diamond, then others
should be able to recognize moisanite and perhaps comment “the refraction
index for this ring appears to be higher than diamond, it must be a moisanite.
It’s beautiful!”

Wedding is a tradition, but it’s not required for marriage likewise diamond is
the symbolic instrument for proposals, but the ring does not have to be
diamond.

I appreciate your post for the detail comparison breakdown between diamond and
moisanite, but I am skeptical of the intent. Research the luxury handbag
industry and you’ll find the same patterns, and what alternatives are there,
typically, for cheaper Chanel handbags?

~~~
salmonet
I would go with CZ. Interestingly there is an inverse correlation between
wedding ring cost and likelihood of staying together.

[https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480)

------
trprog
>If I can prevent a single reader from needlessly dropping $6,000-10,000+ on a
diamond engagement ring, this site will be a success. Financial worries are
the #1 cause of stress in a married relationship - there is absolutely NO
excuse to start your married life by taking on that level of debt.

This is probably very naive of me but it honestly never occurred to me that
anyone would actually go into debt for a ring. I naively assumed everyone did
it the old fashioned way. Save up and don't pop the question until you either
have bought the ring or at least have the cash on hand to go get one together.

Personally if I was being proposed to and discovered that my partner had gone
into debt to get a ring I would seriously question the wisdom of picking them
as a life partner.

~~~
uremog
I'm the same, I wouldn't buy a ring, or even a car if I couldn't pay outright.
But I think a lot of people would do so. Just look at how many people have
basically zero savings [0].

[0] [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/can-you-guess-
how-m...](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/can-you-guess-how-many-
americans-have-absolutely-no-savings-at-all/)

------
Animats
Since 2006, the synthetic diamond gem industry has made considerable progress,
and is now banging out real diamonds at a good clip. Gemesis was the first to
mass-market synthetic diamond gemstones. (DeBeers tried intimidating the CEO,
a retired U.S. Army general. Intimidation didn't work.) Now other companies
are doing it.

Silicon carbide gemstones are available in bulk on Alibaba.[1] So are
diamonds.The page for Changsa Chenguang Machinery and Electric Company makes
it clear how far down diamonds have come.[2] They have a list of diamond
products - diamond plate for cutting tools and wear parts, monocrystalline
diamond for wire drawing dies, diamond inserts for well drilling cutters, and
diamonds for gemstones. The gems are a sideline from the cutting tool
business. Minimum gem order 10 grams, capacity six metric tons of diamonds a
year. That's just one small manufacturer.

[1]
[https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?IndexArea=product_en&Ca...](https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&fsb=y&floorTab=&SearchText=silicon+carbide+gem)
[2] [https://china-chenguang.en.alibaba.com/](https://china-
chenguang.en.alibaba.com/)

~~~
userbinator
All I can say is "Wow!" Synthetic diamonds have sure come a long way. At the
rate the technology seems to be progressing, even golfball-sized diamonds at
ridiculously low prices might not be unrealistic, and I'm sure others will
find applications for it.

Due to its thermal properties, I think handling a huge diamond might also be
an interesting experience.

~~~
Animats
You can get a golfball-sized 80mm cubic zirconia jewel right now.[1] Price for
the big ones is $33.25. Minimum order quantity from the factory is 5.

[1] [https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/wholesale-80mm-
round-...](https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/wholesale-80mm-round-cut-
cubic-zirconia_1713689739.html)

------
kenny_r
According to Wikipedia[0], the patents for the creation of Moissanite expired
in 2015 in the US and in 2016 for the most of the rest of the world.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moissanite#Applications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moissanite#Applications)

~~~
saidajigumi
Interesting. Moissanite (silicon carbide) has a number of similar
characteristics to diamond. So I decided to see whether, like diamond, its use
as a high-temperature semiconductor had been investigated. Turns out the
answer is yes, specifically by Toyota for its hybrid cars' power control units
(PCUs):

[https://www.wired.com/2014/06/toyota-semiconductors-
evs/](https://www.wired.com/2014/06/toyota-semiconductors-evs/)

~~~
TD-Linux
Yeah, manufacturers like Cree specialize in it for high voltage MOSFETs.

------
FullMtlAlcoholc
Another alternative is synthetic, lab grown diamonds. They are superior to
naturally occuring diamonds, cheaper, aren't tainted by human misery and
suffering like conflic/blood diamondst, and arent extracted from ecologically
damaging mining techniques like open pit mining.

~~~
baby
Where can you buy that?

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
They're mostly made for industrial purposes, but just google synthetic
diamonds.

~~~
pault
Be careful googling synthetic diamonds. There are a lot of scammy companies
out there using slippery language to fool you into thinking their cubic
zirconias are sythetic diamonds. AFAIK there are only a few companies making
real jewelry grade synthetic diamonds and they are just barely cheaper than
mined diamonds, so if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
Yeah. The real advantage of synthetics over naturally occurring is they don't
come with human exploitation baggage or contribute to climate change.

~~~
delecti
There's also a side-benefit if you're like me. I think the idea of a synthetic
diamond is way more interesting than one we dug up. To me it's the difference
between "hey look at this shiny rock I found" and "look at what beauty our
technology has allowed us to create"

------
brandur
I like to believe that there's a lot of savvy and affluent couples out there
who are buying either moissanites instead of diamonds and choosing not to tell
their friends or family about it to avoid the social stigma. They then take
the $5k to $20k they just saved (what's the rule of thumb, one month's gross
salary?) and put it towards bootstrapping their new life.

You can even post close-up pictures of the stone on Facebook and not a single
person you know will ever be able to tell because, as noted by the article,
the difference is indistinguishable to the human eye.

As long as both members of the couple find this acceptable, it would be silly
not to at this point.

~~~
75j
> _I like to believe that there 's a lot of savvy and affluent couples out
> there who are buying either moissanites instead of diamonds and choosing not
> to tell their friends or family about it to avoid the social stigma._

This is so foreign to me. Why do people care? It's just a way to signal wealth
and really not much different than a bride price (a cultural practice that
American expats are quick to criticize in an Asian culture, for reference). My
girlfriend / future-wife and I will get matching steel rings or something
similar, like my parents have. She's not American so she was thrilled by that
idea. I already told her I won't wear it most of the time because rings are
annoying, and again that was no problem at all.

I would run the other way if someone is resolute about buying a diamond, after
everything that is known about the diamond industry. It means either that
person is totally ignorant of the world around them, or doesn't care about
making a positive impact with their lifestyle choices.

~~~
bb101
My impression is that it's due to the same reason Americans leave large tips
if they can. Without an established class system, money is the signal used to
demonstrate your standing in relation to others.

Incidentally, money and class are, in my experience, the most misunderstood
aspect of the English class system by Americans. There is a loose correlation,
but it's only very loose. It's quite common in the UK to have upper class
families with hardly any money beyond inheritance, and conversely rich lower
class families who might run their own businesses.

Interestingly, the upper class man wouldn't feel the slightest bit inferior
for neglecting to buy a diamond ring for his fiancé unless doing so was the
"done thing" by previous generations of his or her family, whereas the rich
lower class man would be clamouring for the biggest one he could afford.

Generalizations, but so termed due to being generally true.

------
sundarurfriend
There was an AMA on reddit [1] that addressed the status of DeBeers price
control, the idea that synthetic diamonds are 'flawless', etc. Lots of other
cool info too, related to the diamond and gem industry.

[1] "IamA programmer who writes code for calculating diamond prices. AMA about
De Beers, the diamond industry, synthetic diamonds, engagement rings, etc."
[https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2aijjh/iama_programme...](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2aijjh/iama_programmer_who_writes_code_for_calculating/)

------
strictfp
Similar arguments can be made about almost any fashion item. People don't buy
fashion due to it's great quality, and most of the time not even due to good
design, but mostly just to show off.

~~~
emodendroket
Yeah, the arguments about resale value seem ridiculous. Who's buying a wedding
ring as an investment?

~~~
atomical
The argument about resale value is used to justify the purchase. The person
buying the ring doesn't seriously consider it an investment, but it makes it
less painful to think of it as one.

------
matt_morgan
My wife has a diamond engagement ring and wedding band. Since then I've bought
her several cubic zirconias. I can tell the difference (I'm a geologist by
training) because the CZ's have too much fire, but I'm not sure I would ever
see the difference if I didn't know in advance. And moissanites are much
closer even than CZ in diamond-like properties. CZ, however, is way cheaper.
Like $10 for a 1-carat stone.

Could be that moissanite is _just_ expensive enough to qualify as an
engagement stone (where CS is way too cheap).

~~~
delecti
Additionally, I think CZ has negative connotations that moissanite hasn't
acquired yet. There's been longer for sitcoms to make jokes like "the jerk got
me a cheap cubic zirconium!", which isn't the case for moissanite.

------
thebiglebrewski
Can anyone give me advice on how to convince my girlfriend of this though
without her thinking I love her any less :)?

~~~
DanBC
A $2000 ring is cents per day for a long marriage.

66% of marriages survive 10 years. The ring would cost 50c per day.

Buy the ring, and spend less of coffee.

~~~
ginko
That assumes that a more expensive ring buys a stabler marriage. Actually the
opposite seems to be the case:

[https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2501480)

~~~
DanBC
Nothing in my comment is saying that buying an expensive ring will save a
marriage.

I'm only saying that if your marriage lasts for 10 years, which about 66% of
them do, it's weird to complain about the cost of a ring when there will be
very many more expensive and equally bullshit things to spend or not spend on.

~~~
user5994461
The divorce rate is increasing every day. One shouldn't based a decision on
outdated marriage statistics from 10 years ago. Just sayin'

~~~
lotharbot
the divorce rate has actually been falling steadily since about 1980.

------
diamond1
"The big difference between moissanite and diamond is that moissanite can be
manufactured reliably and efficiently in a laboratory."

Thats not true, diamonds can be manufactured reliably and efficiently in a
laboratory as well. And its nearly impossible to tell the difference between
natural and artificial ones. Only a very complicated lab test with a machine
can tell the difference.

~~~
vaveh
I thought fabricated diamonds were yellow-ish and easy to tell apart from real
ones?

~~~
dllthomas
This depends on the method of fabrication - there are several. From my
recollection of a Wired article from a decade ago, there was a then-new
technique that produced diamonds that were indistinguishable from natural
diamonds but for being maybe a little too perfect.

Article seems to be here, method in question was "Chemical Vapor Deposition":
[https://www.wired.com/2003/09/diamond/](https://www.wired.com/2003/09/diamond/)

~~~
rahkiin
You do realise that the OP article was from 2006 while the article you cite is
from 2009?

~~~
dllthomas
The article I cited was from 2003, but I'm not sure what the relevance is of
the relative dates. My comment wasn't directed at the OP, but at the parent's
question about fabricated ("cultured" ;) ) diamonds.

------
ryanmarsh
That's nice. Androids are fine phones too for a fraction of the cost. The
problem is my wife likes diamonds and iPhones and I doubt either has much to
do with the specs.

------
Odenwaelder
I can't get over the fact that americans apparently pay $5k-10k for an
engagement ring. As if this decides the success of the marriage.

~~~
atomical
I have known people that spent $18k-30k. If I was on the other side it would
scare me that my partner was willing to blow that much money on a novelty.
It's a sign that they are bad with money.

~~~
Odenwaelder
I paid a three digit sum and chose the ring based on what my girlfriend likes.
She loves it.

~~~
mcv
Something personal yet affordable is a much better idea than burning money on
an expensive but impersonal status symbol.

------
syedkarim
My wife wanted a diamond ring, but one that included stones that have been in
her family for a 6 generations. We designed the ring together (with the help
of Rhino3D and a local gem shop in Chicago). We melted down the old platinum
ring and used the money for a new setting. It's the only ring she has; no
separate engagement and wedding rings.

My opinion is that people who insist on the two-months' salary-marketing ploy
are chumps and I don't respect that lack of real thought for such a major
decision. I told her afterwards that if she would have insisted on a new
diamond ring, we wouldn't have gotten married. Currently at seven years and
two kids.

------
beaner
A diamond purchase is a type of proof-of-burn. It's a way to display how much
you value the person by being willing to sacrifice a large part of your
savings for them. It's not really about the stone itself, it's about the cost.

~~~
Casseres
Then give a donation receipt for a charity that you both support for the cost
of the diamond instead. At least that way the sacrificed money will support
something you both believe in rather than the diamond industry.

~~~
icebraining
It's also to display for others, not just for the receiver of the ring.

~~~
mcv
Frame the donation receipt and display it in a prominent position.

Wastefulness as a status symbol is a really harmful idea. I'd prefer someone
who is smart with money.

------
codingdave
I go out to collect gemstones as a hobby on the weekends. And it only took a
half day class to learn how to shape them for jewelry. So while some people
still like diamonds, I prefer to give hand-collected and crafted stones. They
might not be worth as much, but I made them myself and can guarantee nobody
was harmed or screwed over in the process.

~~~
mcv
Much more personal too. I like it.

------
legohead
I got my wife a moissanite ring, and it indeed sparkles amazingly...but so do
cubic zirconiums

------
sotojuan
The worst part of the diamond industry is how much space is wasted here in New
York for diamond stores. Around Midtown there are whole blocks of sketchy
diamond stores. No way all are profitable.

~~~
bksenior
I'm sure you appreciate how easy selling diamonds makes avoiding taxes.
Diamonds and High-End Art make it nearly impossible to not help launder.

~~~
sotojuan
What about gift shops and massage parlors? Both take over Manhattan blocks as
well.

------
jjeaff
We went with a synthetic crystal/man made diamond that is simply beautiful and
was cheaper than a moissanite yet is quite a bit closer to the fire and
refraction index.

The key is to spend the money on the band. The quickest trick that jewelers
use to spot a fake is a cheap band. No one puts an expensive diamond in a
cheap plated band. We had a custom platinum and 14k yellow gold band with pave
diamonds and it is stunning. My wife gets compliments literally daily. I am
quite confident that even a professional jeweler or gemologist would not be
able to tell with the naked eye that this is not a real diamond.

Add to that, the majority of the cost for the band was the raw materials which
we paid spot price for. You could literally melt it down and get most of the
value out of it. Additionally the companies that sell the higher end
synthetics offer lifetime warranties and in our case, even a replacement for a
lost stone with a deductible.

------
partycoder
Koi carps are a fish with a lot of variance in their cost. Koi carps can cost
from $25 to over $50000, depending on their size and color. What do you need a
larger koi carp for? Well, I personally do not know why someone might be so
appreciative of larger fish, go ask that person.

Price is about perceived value and perception can be manipulated in many, many
ways.

And you can pretty much start talking about mostly anything. Wristwatches,
cars, etc... and how some features are super important where in real life they
probably aren't.

Just like a larger koi carp, lower 0 to 60 mph so you can get to that red
traffic light faster, a shiny gold watch that will give you the exact same
time, wine that tastes 90% the same as a wine with 10% of the cost, and we can
go on and on...

Truth is that some of those things make people happy, and that's pretty much
all the reason behind it. Just go for the ring that will give you the "yes".

------
vpayette
We were engaged in 2006 and I forwarded that article to my soon to be wife.
Her answer was: I don't think this is funny. I ended up buying a 10k diamond
ring. We're still happily married with 1 beautiful 8 y.o. daughter. Ask any
married guy and they'll all say the same: pick your battles!

~~~
gist
Exactly. Who is one person to judge what someone else finds important or gets
pleasure from even if invented by a marketing person? What is the value of a
football or soccer game or a host of other things people spend money on.
Ripoff is in the eyes of the beholder.

~~~
hueving
It doesn't cost 3 months salary and support death in Africa to watch a
football or soccer game.

~~~
shard
Although it does support permanent brain injury in football players.

------
sherman-human
I commissioned a bespoke moissanite ring for my wife. One of her family
members seemed gobsmacked by the shiny thing. A couple months later this
person was wearing a new ring with a larger stone. If you are concerned about
conflict diamonds, there are some weird edge cases you need to consider.

------
maaaats
> _Isn 't it amazing (and scary) how brainwashed people are about the "value"
> of diamonds, even though they're not actually worth that much?_

I've never understood this argument. Aren't they worth what people are willing
to pay?

~~~
onion2k
_Aren 't they worth what people are willing to pay?_

Yes, but only as a function of their scarcity. Diamonds _aren 't_ actually
rare. They're only made rare by diamond companies hoarding them and releasing
tiny numbers of stones in order to maintain a high price. You certainly
wouldn't buy diamonds as an investment, just in case a diamond company dumped
their stockpile on to the market and the price collapsed.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Not just that. If you also count diamonds manufactured in the laboratory, then
diamonds are pretty common and cheap items. That's why diamond companies put a
lot of effort into convincing people that only "natural" diamonds count as
proofs of love.

------
HiroP55
Estate jewellery is a good option too. Estate jewellery is often cheaper and
of very good quality. Why buy something new when something 60 or 50 yrs old
looks the same or better?

~~~
atomical
Wouldn't the diamond be the same price since they are valued by the CCC's? Is
it the setting and diamond combo that costs less?

~~~
ryuker16
No, most overpaid for jewelry so a diamond store is gonna offer them a low
ball offer at best.

If a store wants the Dimond they have to melt it and reset it which is work.

There is a base price for diamonds based on ccc but good luck getting that
from a store .

------
mcv
"dropping $6,000-10,000+ on a diamond engagement ring"

How much?! Do people really spend that much on an engagement ring? Here
they're a few hundred euro at most. Unless you're a millionaire or like to
pretend to be, perhaps.

I would say that if you need to have a big stone in your engagement ring at
all, you're still a slave of the old De Beers advertising campaign. You may
outsmart them on the product, but you're still obeying the message of having a
big sparkly stone.

~~~
grkvlt
Yes, people do spend that much. I'm not sure what kind of virtue signalling
people think they are achieving when they fake this kind of incredulity.
People will spend a fuck ton of money on things they think are pretty, or
unique.

But what sort of idiot would want an original Picasso or Van Goch, for
example, when they can just get a digital print to put up on their wall that
looks almost identical? If you're the sort of person who likes original
artwork, you're really just a slave to the Christies and Bonhams marketing...

~~~
mcv
Not sure what you mean about virtue signaling there. Maybe the article was
specifically aimed at millionaires or something, but for a normal middle class
person to spend two or three months salary on a ring? That's crazy.

Just like most people do not own real Picassos or Van Goghs. (Though if they
did, it'd retain it's value better than a diamond ring.) If the occasional
rich diamond lover spends that much, that's totally understandable, but for
society to expect that kind of expense from people with financial struggles
(everybody who is not rich), that is irresponsible.

------
rch
Let's extend this sentiment to all gemstones. Reality show enthusiasts have
started ripping up high peaks in Colorado for worthless shiny stones like
aquamarine.

------
salmonet
I don't remember the source, but apparently there is an inverse correlation
between expense of wedding ring and a couple's likelihood of stay together

------
dbg31415
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kWu1ifBGU](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kWu1ifBGU)

------
intrasight
Diamonds really aren't that attractive IMNO. Other gemstones I like better
include sapphire, ruby, opal, emerald. My wife's engagement ring has a blue
sapphire with opals on each side. We created each other's wedding band and
cast them with gold recycled from old family jewelry. Be creative - these
artifacts will have great sentimental value as your marriage ages.

~~~
matryoshka4811
Couldn't agree more. I always found diamonds a bit boring, not to mention all
the ethical issues involved. Gemstones and interesting settings are much more
attractive in my opinion. I love that you two recycled some family history as
well!

------
stillsut
Some thoughts I haven't seen mentioned in the comments:

1\. Diamonds, like gold, are highly portable pieces of wealth that hold value
across economic shifts. When rich people go on the run, they usually carry
hidden diamonds with them.

2\. A good looking woman in certain jobs will be approached very frequently by
other men. It's not just waitresses, think pharma rep. The ring is an
effective shield, and the bigger the better.

Putting these thoughts together, the pointless rock is actually providing a
good amount of security to the woman. Even if you disappeared, or if she
wanted to disappear, the diamond will always have value and can get her
through a few months expenses. Second, you're helping her avoid confrontation
in public life.

Now realistically, some women have a back office job where everyone already
knows their marital status. Many women today don't need the precious stone as
pawnable thing of last resort. So I don't think its wrong for a couple to
skeptically evaluate the value prop I've described above.

------
suhith
[http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-
you...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-
tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/)

This article is a pretty interesting one on the topic!

------
davidhariri
Anybody else have a SO who doesn't care about any of this? We talked about
rings for 10 minutes before she and I got married. We wear white gold bands.
No one has ever asked us about our rings. I'm feeling like I'm missing
something here. Do rings appreciate in value?

------
datguacdoh
Went with a lab grown diamond from Brilliant Earth and my (now) wife was
ecstatic that she didn't have to feel any gilt over the stone or feeling
pressure from friends trying to explain why she went with an alternative. We
were both extremely happy with the ring.

------
nurettin
I bought my wife no engagement rings and she is happy just to keep the money.
Society just needs to get saner so you won't need any of these coveted stones.
So instead of looking for alternative stones to carry on the madness, just
date utilitarian women.

------
Isamu
We went with a sapphire, in an antique setting with some small inexpensive
diamonds on either side. Better in every way than a big diamond, much cheaper,
easier to get a far prettier custom result.

And I have to say prong settings are ungainly and not durable.

------
gravypod
So this is Silicon Carbide? I'd love to see someone grow one of these
crystals. The raw materials and the processes needed are, from what people
have told me, simple but no one has ever gone past "don't worry about it".

~~~
ridgeguy
The raw materials are cheap, but growing crystals of SiC isn't easy, and it
took quite a long time to work out the growth processes. It helps that it's
more or less conventional crystal growth and doesn't require super high
pressure, as does one of the two main ways of growing diamond.

Here's a presentation on some aspects of growing silicon carbide (which in its
low-defect state is clear & colorless, i.e., Moissonite) [1]. One thing to
note is that growth temperatures exceed 2000°C - that's difficult territory
for engineering apparatus that's both reliable and cheap.

A lot of the impetus for high quality SiC growth came from developing it for
super high power FETs and other power switching semiconductors. That growth
tech bled over into gem SiC growth.

[1] [http://www.leb.eei.uni-
erlangen.de/winterakademie/2005/resul...](http://www.leb.eei.uni-
erlangen.de/winterakademie/2005/results/Presentations/SiC_Bulk_Growth.pdf)

~~~
gravypod
I know this is a big ask for some machineists/industrial engineers out there
but I think it would be really cool to see someone produce a one off sample of
Moissonite for their spouse. Would be really lovely and from looking at this
very very doable.

This would be great but reading through this but it doesn't look like a 15
minute process. You're right, the robust-ativity of this is the real concern
here.

------
naftulikay
Droppin' those truth bombs. Adam Ruins Everything had a good episode covering
this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kWu1ifBGU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5kWu1ifBGU)

------
mk3
I have only one problem with this article crawling so high... As it seems an
ad for one retailer of Moisanite Charles & Colvard. Also this article was
submitted twice to hackernews before, once by the same person before.

------
oakwhiz
I purchased a neodymium-doped yttrium aluminum garnet from a surplus auction
that included electro-optical equipment (big lasers and such.) The garnet is a
nice pink color with a high refractive index. It's slightly bigger than 1
cubic centimeter and being lab grown it has zero defects other than the
neodymium atoms which turn it pink.

I plan on having it cut and set into a ring. However one obstacle is that
yttrium is considered toxic to humans as a dust. Proper safety, ventilation
and cleanup must be observed which makes it difficult to find jewellers that
are willing to accommodate this.

------
gina650
Re:Alternatives - was just talking about this with Billionaire founder of
MoonExpress which just the first private company to receive FAA clearance to
harvest some the moon (Moon Express). Sounds like he plans on bringing some
back for rings and making it a thing to not just have a honeymoon but to give
your honey the moon.

[https://soundcloud.com/user-925097294/billionaire-
breaking-i...](https://soundcloud.com/user-925097294/billionaire-breaking-
into-trillion-dollar-space-market-gains-faa-approval-on-tomorrows-tech-
podcast)

~~~
atomical
There are some good alternative ideas. At a point in my life I was learning 3D
modeling and planning to have a ring printed by Shapeways.

The moon rock is a cool idea, but unless the couple met while working at NASA
I don't see the significance.

------
dgudkov
Millions of men spending billions of dollars every year because of a marketing
campaign of one company. If they instead crowdfunded a massive anti-campaign
they could've stopped this madness.

------
thesmok
Just two weeks ago I was ordering a ring from a jeweler and I wanted a
moissanite. It seems to be impossible to find this gem in Ukraine. My jeweler
wasn't able to order it anywhere. I'm visiting Germany soon, so I went to
Charles&Colvard website to see if they have a reseller in Germany – no they
don't. The closest reseller is in UK. And I can't just order it from US
because every delivery service specifically doesn't deliver precious stones
and metals to Ukraine. So no moissanite for me.

------
emodendroket
I think rubies are much more appealing.

~~~
petre
Depends on what she likes.

------
vkris
Ha! Great Post/Website. I personally run a personalized jewelry store,
AuGrav.com, and have recently posted on why NOT to go for a diamond ring! As
you mentioned, it's more of an emotional/sentimental value rather than the
investment value. #GetPersonalized

Cheers!

[http://www.augrav.com/blog/how-to-propose-your-love-
without-...](http://www.augrav.com/blog/how-to-propose-your-love-without-a-
diamond-ring)

------
nhumrich
I love this article, but why not discuss other options as well. You show CZ in
your table, but don't discuss how its a perfect stone with no discolorization,
and significantly cheaper than even moissanite. Its perfection means it will
never pass as a diamond to a jeweller, but it looks amazing to everyone else.
I bought my wife a huge CZ ring and she loves it and the cheap price tag. She
lost it once and I just bought another just like it.

------
rb2k_
I recently spent a little bit of time looking into this and one thing that was
interesting is how much the look of a stone is also relying on the quality of
the cut.

You can get diamonds/moissonites/cz in the same cut, but they will look like
night and day, depending on how well it seems to be done. Some lab created
stones / replicants look indistinguishable from a diamond whereas others look
very much like they're made from glass

------
mirimir
So how has the US tradition of engagement diamonds survived the (entirely
proper and welcome) amelioration of sexual stereotypes? I'm living in a
bubble, I know, but huh? I've been married four times. I've never given, or
received, an engagement ring. I've never even been explicitly engaged. I don't
even recall that the topic ever came up. I suppose that it was just part of
mutual selection process ;)

------
mikemikemike
Interesting read and great points. But the reason I'm shopping for a diamond
is precisely that it is too expensive. It's supposed to be proof that I am
glad to make sacrifices for her. If we wanted to do something nontraditional
we might choose some completely different kind of ring, but to choose
something that looks super expensive and is not would make me feel like I had
cut corners for my fiance.

~~~
Nursie
Why does she need this proof?

Why is wasting a ton of money proof of anything but stupidity?

Genuine questions here. Diamonds are certainly a feature of UK marriages but
I've certainly never heard of "X months salary"...

------
coleifer
The fact of the matter is, you're still talking about buying a rock. Once you
have accepted the absurdity of that, it seems like bikeshedding to argue that
diamonds are better or worse than anything else (or any less absurd).

Despite this, I spent an outrageous sum on the diamond engagement ring I
bought my wife (as well as the wedding band). Because anything other than
diamonds wouldn't have been diamonds!

------
err4nt
After reading about Moissanite I went out and got a nice custom diamond ring.
I've seen it in person and sometimes you CAN tell, because of the 'fire' its
way more rainbowy than diamond, diamonds are 'whiter' looking.

I'm not even opposed to CZ if it looks pretty, but I wanted to give her a
diamond and gold, and anything else would have felt like a substitution.

~~~
m1aw
This is what annoys me. The geek and idealist in me doesn't want to give her a
diamond because it's not that valuable. Yet, I don't want to be cheap. I don't
want her to feel like I don't value her enough.

~~~
Chris2048
> I don't want to be cheap

Why not get something expensive, yet valuable then?

~~~
chii
Such as? Jewellery is inherently not valuable!

~~~
Chris2048
Is a gold ring not worth the gold it's made out of?

~~~
chii
But the ring would cost more than the gold contents it contains. And i also
stand by the opinion that gold is inherently valueless, and is only valued as
a rarity/status symbol.

~~~
Chris2048
> i also stand by the opinion that gold is inherently valueless

If you have any gold, I'll take it off your hands.

------
kpwagner
Sol: No, it's a moissanite. Bad Boy Lincoln: A what-in-ite? Sol: A moissanite
is an artificial diamond, Lincoln. It's Mickey Mouse, mate. Spurious. Not
genuine. And it's worth... fuck-all.

This quote has stuck with me, though it sounds like Snatch (Guy Ritchie) got
the "artificial" part wrong based on the site.

------
Insanity
Just got married yesterday and went for the traditional thing. I am happy to
read there is an alternative for diamond though, and if we have a gem put it,
as is tradition for the birth of a child (for some), I will surely suggest
this to my wife.

------
boggydepot
Imho, wedding rings are overrated. And they will just get lost in a few
months/years. Having a super cheap ring is fine.

The same deal with ultra expensive weddings. But remember, this is just my
opinion. I am more in agreement with Epicurus.

------
wodenokoto
Back in the days, Slashdot had a discussion on alternative materials for
wedding rings.

I cannot for the life of me remember suggestions, but the community came up
with quite a few creative and meaningful materials that could make beautiful
rings.

------
nommm-nommm
Ehhhh I'd take it one step future and say "engagement rings suck."

------
truth_sentinell
IMHO a fiancee that demands a diamond is not a spouse worth keeping.

------
usulzer0
My wife is sporting an aquamarine and people will actually stop her to admire
her ring. There are a lot of good alternatives to the over priced/unethical
diamond.

------
usaphp
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GFZKPQuAaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GFZKPQuAaw)

------
Spooky23
My wife loves sapphire, so we went that route back in 2003. The money saved
went towards an IMO awesome setting that will be an heirloom.

------
sebbySebbyBinx
Diamonds do suck, which is why I made the Bitcoin alternative to diamond
engagement rings, the BTC Ring.

[http://thebtcring.com/](http://thebtcring.com/)

Even with moissanite, the ring still has inherent value, thus subjecting the
wearer to risk of loss or theft. By using a _pointer_ to value (e.g. a Bitcoin
address), one can still show off but not worry about storm drains or muggings.

------
graycat
So, what's an 0.47 caret, round, brilliant cut, very white, flawless to 10X
diamond worth?

------
Joyfield
My and then current GF had our engagement rings in titanium. We never got
married though.

------
hodder
Doesn't anyone have recommendations best places to get a moissanite ring?

~~~
hodder
This was supposed to be "does anyone have any recommendations" but autocorrect
changed it. Apologies if it came across as rude.

------
austinhuminski
Damn, this was brought to my attention about 2 days and $6,361 too early.

------
graycat
Silicon carbide? Hmm, if not too concerned about looks, then can get it at
most hardware stores on various sanding papers and disks, right? But, sure,
much the same for industrial diamonds, e.g., for knife sharpeners, maybe some
high end grinding wheels?

------
wkoszek
I will send this to my other half... Maybe she will understand...

------
_audakel
Both DeBeers recommend links are getting 404.

------
dimino
Do a lot of these problems go away if you can afford to pay in cash for a
diamond and it doesn't inhibit future purchasing decisions?

------
balls187
> I recently got engaged, and found myself in the market for a suitable
> engagement ring.

Got engaged prior to purchasing the engagement ring?

------
ClayFerguson
People buy diamonds for a lot of the same 'irrational' reasons they believe in
religion. Brainwashing. Girls have it pounded into their head over and over
all their lives that this diamond is a MUST so they never think with their own
brains about it. 99% of people would never spend $10K on a single piece of
jewlery, if it was logic and reason, as opposed to pure brainwashing, that was
governing their decisions. So actually it's a very sad aspect that I hate
about humanity. Susceptibility to being brainwashed and the need to fit in,
and the fear of not fitting in. All the above are mental disorders. And by the
way just because "everyone is doing it" doesn't mean it's not a mental
disorder. It is.

~~~
ryuker16
Alot of women think this of men when they see us drop $60k-80k+ on car instead
of getting a cheapo Toyota.

~~~
tdkl
Well, they might, but your ring doesn't get you anywhere faster and more
comfortable.

Also you don't attract men with a ring, but the other way around...*

*This is not my way of thinking, but it exists out there.

~~~
ryuker16
The ring is bragging rights...

I drive a sports car.... some women love it others wonder why it's not
quiet(it's a convertible) or super smooth and assume it's broken.

Have you seen the cars most women buy? Slowest, low mpg, boat like cars on the
road. Basically Toyota in a nutshell, no wonder they do so well.

------
tdkl
Here's a nice show "Adam ruins everything" where the host explains why
weddings (and the ring "tradition") is just about marketing started in 20th
century:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVLGsc0M9h0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVLGsc0M9h0)

~~~
Arkaad
Had to scroll way too far to this see someone mention that video.

------
bitmapbrother
If you're conflicted about spending thousands of dollars for a diamond ring
just give your fiance the money it would cost you to buy a diamond ring and
tell her it's her decision. Most girls would think twice about spending
thousands of dollars on a rock and instead spend some of it while keeping the
rest for other future expenditures.

------
KlaudijLikon
You're so right! Diamonds are an incredible rip-off! But people keep buying
them because of the tradition and history and because they don't know
something else. Like coca cola and their ads, it's popular to buy diamonds.

------
gragas
I hope the author doesn't get suicided by De Beers. Good luck, my friend!

------
ommunist
"a.. whatenite?"

------
MustardTiger
>Sorry about Trump, BTW.

Why on earth do you think that sort of random political non-sequitur is
appropriate?

~~~
jakewins
Uhm, well, because I'm having a conversation about cultural differences
between the midwest and the north-east. I think it's appropriate to segway
into another topic that way.

If it's the sarcasm you find inappropriate, I respectfully disagree. If our
new president fulfills his promises, friends of mine will be cataloged,
deported. My own hopes of US citizenship and the life me and my wife had
planned for ourselves is now uncertain. I find it all very stressful, and
humor is an outlet for that stress.

If it's the particular apology you find inappropriate, that was not a joke. As
a progressive in the midwest, I did not do enough to campaign to the large
group of Trump-voters in my immediate family, friend group and neighborhood.

~~~
Grishnakh
>If our new president fulfills his promises, friends of mine will be
cataloged, deported. My own hopes of US citizenship and the life me and my
wife had planned for ourselves is now uncertain.

Are you sure about that? He's already backtracking on ObamaCare, saying he
wants to keep parts of it, and the latest news about deportations is that he
wants to deport people who have criminal records. Personally, I'm wondering
why people who aren't legal immigrants or residents, and who have committed
crimes (beyond speeding tickets...) are still here and haven't been deported
yet. Who's going to moan about that? He's also making noises about figuring
out who the "terrific people" are and keeping them here. Obviously, a lot of
stuff he's said was said to appeal to angry voters, and isn't necessarily what
he's going to do in office; I expect he's going to go back on a lot of his
promises, but in a way that he can claim he didn't (by simply not going as far
as implied; then he'll claim he didn't "mean that literally" or "didn't fully
articulate the policy" or something like that). Call me crazy or overly-
optimistic, but I'm thinking now that he's going to water a lot of stuff down,
in an attempt to keep his popularity numbers very high, while still getting
some things done that he thought needed to be done.

>As a progressive in the midwest, I did not do enough to campaign to the large
group of Trump-voters in my immediate family, friend group and neighborhood.

There was absolutely nothing you could have done to change the course of the
election, unless you campaigned a lot to get more people to the polls in the
Dem primary to vote for Bernie. Once Hillary was anointed, it was all over:
too many voters simply were not going to vote for her, no matter what. Just
look at the turnout numbers: about 4-5 million _fewer_ people voted this year
than in 2008 when Obama was elected, even though there's more eligible voters
8 years later (greater population). A lot of people simply hated Hillary and
voted for Trump out of spite, many voted 3rd party (though many of those votes
were angry Republicans), but tons of people simply didn't vote. The DNC has
only itself to blame for this, so if you're mad about that, I suggest you
dedicate your campaigning efforts to reforming the DNC.

~~~
beachstartup
i think the 60 minutes interview tonight is going to calm a lot of nerves.

personally i think the trump presidency will be shocking in how normal it is.
people are just completely worked up over his campaign persona which is
understandable.

what people forget sometimes is that we have a political system in place
designed to prevent dictatorships, exactly the kind of thing people on the
left are concerned about with trump (and people on the right were equally
concerned about with obama).

------
dom0
Fun fact: Moissanite is nothing else than silicon carbide, which is also used
for high-temperature power electronics. So, why don't give her/him a MOSFET
ring? ;)

This may be a great / bad idea depending on his/her preferences.

~~~
thechao
I had a Larrabee A0 spin I tried to mount on a copper wire for my wife---
that's like 30 grand in, uh, engineered jewelry. Didn't fly.

------
coin
> superior to diamonds in every essential way: cut, color, clarity,
> durability, fire, brilliance

Yet the author still uses the "desirable" properties taught by the diamond
industry

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
What is the point of this comment?

If I design a new type of helmut that was totally awesome, it would rightly be
judged against other helmuts.

If I buy a stone specifically as an alternative to diamond for jewellery, why
would I come up with different criteria?

~~~
coin
The point is that these "desirable" attributes were chosen by the diamond
industry to promote their own gems. Why is "fire" or "brilliance" the
reference by which gemstones are judged by? This mindset is exactly what the
diamond industry has created, and the irony is that the author has taken the
same sheepish following that diamond customers have.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Probably because those criteria actually look good for jewellery.

Which makes sense, easier to get someone to pay more for a gem they think
looks good, than to make them pay more for a gem they don't think looks good.

------
NetOpWibby
HOLY SHIT THIS CAME JUST IN TIME. THANK YOU.

Time to get my money back from this down payment I've been making, bwahahaha.
My gf will love this, she's not fancy in the slightest. In fact, she'll be
impressed that I got something that looks better than a diamond and a portion
of the cost. You've improved everyone's life because of this site.

Hey, if you ever want to make this site fancier, I'll design/code it for free.
My portfolio is [https://dsgn.io](https://dsgn.io) and my other project live
on [https://the-inc.co](https://the-inc.co).

Thanks again!

------
graycat
Gee, ever since she was three years old and playing with Disney dolls, e.g.,
Cinderella, she was dreaming of HER dream man, on a white horse, in shining
armor, picking her up and carrying her off to their love nest castle on the
top of the mountain.

Alas, with current economic conditions -- those suits of shining armor and
white horses can really set a guy back -- she gets a guy, he did just take a
shower, in blue denim on a mule?

Ah, for sure the good, old days of romance are gone with the wind forever?

But, now, with Silicon Valley and everyone making at least $10,000 a week,
what's the big deal of a $10,000 diamond?

Or, suppose in 10 years she discovers it's not a diamond? And in the meanwhile
the startup went public, and he got $600 million. Now that she's had her
romantic heart crushed by the _fake diamond_ , her mom, who never thought he
was good enough for her to begin with, reminds her of the beautiful California
community property law, and suddenly he has to pay both his lawyer's fees and
hers, loses the house, the kids, the new, high end Mercedes SUV, the boat, the
boat house, the kids, the three dogs, and half of what is left of the $600
million and has to pay child support for kids he can't see and alimony
forever. All because he was cheap and bought a fake?

Just kidding, guys!!!! :-)!!

~~~
selimthegrim
Phil Greenspun is leaking onto this forum, clearly.

~~~
graycat
I haven't read Greenspun in years! What's he up to these days?

~~~
selimthegrim
Mostly complaining about his latest divorce.

------
jonloldrup
This turns out to be based on a conspiracy theory:

"Current public perception of diamonds is the direct result of a masterfully
executed marketing campaign by De Beers that began in 1938, not inherent
scarcity or value. If you've read the article by Edward Epstein (you really
should), you know all of the gory details. Isn't it amazing (and scary) how
brainwashed people are about the "value" of diamonds, even though they're not
actually worth that much?"

Thus, without further investigation, we can conclude that the writer is a
croony crackpot (I don't know if thats a thing, but, anyhow)

right?

~~~
thecatspaw
there's no need to call anyone a croony crackpot or similar.

lots of big newspaper seem also to agree that diamonds are bullshit, here's
huffingtonpost's article about it: [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-
weissman/7-reasons-why-you...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-
weissman/7-reasons-why-you-shouldn_b_1720870.html)

~~~
jonloldrup
actually, I wrote in irony.. my post was supposed to be a satire on all knee
jerk reactions.

------
mk89
Great advice. Possibly coming from someone who doesn't have a girlfriend. :)
try to give such a stone to a girl and see how amused she is gonna be. You are
just gonna sound "cheap". Diamonds are a status, not a beautiful stone.

edit: I see many downvotes. Guys, seriously, was it for me, I would buy
nothing. It's just how this world works. You can express your anger by
downvoting me, I'll be fine, but please don't fall into this belief that
diamonds are just a stone. They are unfortunately just a status, like
brands...

~~~
klodolph
Yes, this discussion reappears every time diamonds are mentioned on HN. Pretty
brilliant marketing campaign by De Beers, though, that somebody will think
you're "cheap" if you don't buy a big enough diamond that somebody dug out of
the ground.

In the end it's just a conversation between people who say, "You can't just
ignore these social conventions" and people who say "these social conventions
are stupid, find someone who isn't so shallow."

If you think everyone falls into one camp or the other, however, then you have
a lot to learn.

~~~
digitaltrees
Here is the article that talks about the De Beers marketing plan that created
the concept of a diamond engagement ring.

[http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/how...](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/how-
an-ad-campaign-invented-the-diamond-engagement-ring/385376/)

