
Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google? - afraid
- I&#x27;m 26
- 2 years experience as a SWE at Google (my 1st ever job)
- Enough cash to live the next ~2 years even with no salary
- Unfulfilled at Google
- Dreaming of starting my own company<p>Keeping all these in mind, why am I so afraid of leaving Google?<p>My mentor suggested to stay at Google until I find an interesting startup idea to work on. I want to spend 6 months in SE Asia and travel the world before starting my company.<p>Is fear really whats holding me back? Is Google too good of a workplace to leave?
======
throwaway-1209
From someone who's been there done that: former Googler, now running
engineering at a startup. It doesn't get any easier to come up with a startup
idea once you leave mothership. I know it seems counterintuitive, since once
you leave you have nothing else to do but come up with ideas, but you could
find that after 6-9 months you still don't have anything you really believe
in. That's what happened to me circa 2008. In the end I just joined Google
back then. So your mentor seems to be right, even though what he's suggesting
is not 100% ethical: if you read your contract you'll see that all of your
software related ideas are property of Google. But they can't read your mind
(yet) so there's no way for them to enforce this, unless you tell them about
it or do something stupid, like using company laptop (or Borg, or Google3
code) to work on it.

~~~
kmicklas
> So your mentor seems to be right, even though what he's suggesting is not
> 100% ethical: if you read your contract you'll see that all of your software
> related ideas are property of Google.

It is most definitely not unethical to not comply with a bullshit
authoritarian contract like that.

~~~
yongjik
This links sums up nicely why that's the only practical way for software
companies: [https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-
pr...](https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-projects/)

> Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the
> year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those
> particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty.

> Ooops. That’s not what you meant. You wanted to pay her for all the games
> that she invents, and you recognize that the actual process of invention for
> which you are paying her may happen at any time… on weekdays, weekends, in
> the office, in the cubicle, at home, in the shower, climbing a mountain on
> vacation.

> So before you hire this developer, you agree, “hey listen, I know that
> inventing happens all the time, and it’s impossible to prove whether you
> invented something while you were sitting in the chair I supplied in the
> cubicle I supplied or not. I don’t just want to buy your 9:00-5:00
> inventions. I want them all, and I’m going to pay you a nice salary to get
> them all,” and she agrees to that, so now you want to sign something that
> says that all her inventions belong to the company for as long as she is
> employed by the company.

> This is where we are by default. This is the standard employment contract
> for developers, inventors, and researchers.

On top of that, Google doesn't give a damn if you're spending some of your 9-5
hours walking around the buildings, surfing the web (or the infamous memegen),
hanging out with coworkers at the microkitchen, or working out at the gym. Do
you also consider these as unethical behavior by employees? By signing the
employment contract, both parties are agreeing that they don't really care
about 9-5 and work hours. They want _all_ your brain's output, and they're
going to pay for it. If you don't like it, you are free to walk away, but that
doesn't make the contract "bullshit authoritarian".

~~~
kmicklas
I feel bad for people with this bootlicker mindset...

If I get sued for violating the contract well that sucks for me but I'm
certainly not going to feel bad for it.

~~~
throwaway-1209
Words of a man with not much to lose. Once your net worth is in multiple
millions, the calculation will change quite a bit. You will most definitely
not want to lose your life's savings on a moral crusade.

~~~
kmicklas
Yeah of course, I'm not saying the contract wouldn't have an influence on my
actions, just that I don't (and you shouldn't) feel a moral/ethical obligation
to follow it.

~~~
throwaway-1209
And that's exactly what those contracts are aiming for: not to control your
mind, but to establish a deterrent from much more nefarious shenanigans, if
thoughts of such shenanigans arise. Some of the top Silicon Valley companies
(dating all the way back to the 70's) would simply not exist if those
contracts were followed to the letter.

------
FreeKill
I always like to think of these things from the worst likely scenario. What's
the worst likely scenario that could happen from quitting to pursue your own
ideas and travel? You take the 2 years, try out several startup ideas, none of
which ultimately pan out, and you blow through your savings, forcing you to
come back and look for a job that may be worse than your current one.
Meanwhile, during those 2 years you got to travel, meet new people, experiment
with new technologies you otherwise wouldn't have had a chance to in a
corporate setting, and you took a shot at building something that can sustain
you continuing in this lifestyle longer term. Even if they don't work out,
they were likely stimulating and challenging ideas directly of interest to
you.

When you think of it that way, what is there to be afraid of? At the end of
the 2 years, you'll still be young with an improved tech skill set and in a
great position to find solid employment when returning home. Maybe you don't
end up working at Google anymore, but there are plenty of other opportunities
out there. Don't be afraid, go for it...

------
kcdev
I can't imagine you'll enjoy working elsewhere if you're not happy at Google.
If you're an entrepreneur at heart, you'll likely not feel fulfilled until
you're working on your own product. I'd say stick around Google (at least for
the paycheck) as your mentor suggested until you have an execution plan. Also,
if you decide to find another employer in the future, it will be more
difficult to explain that you quit because you felt "unfulfilled" (that would
scare me if I were considering hiring you); but if you quit to start your own
company, that's a commendable act.

~~~
theparanoid
I have never regretted leaving a job. The only regrets are not leaving sooner.

~~~
kcdev
Did you have another job lined up when you left?

~~~
theparanoid
No

~~~
nakedrobot2
If you're really an entrepreneur type, then your discomfort for working for a
huge company will never go away.

Leave the squishy free breakfast huge happy company now and don't look back.
You were never that googly to begin with, were you? :)

You are young and fresh, go see the world, see what else is out there. Go!

------
wellpast
If you have a good relationship with your employer you should be able to say
"Hey I want to try something else for a while, but if things don't work out,
I'd love to keep the doors open on both sides."

I've done this before with a few jobs, one of which I _went back to_ after I
left and the other thing I was pursuing didn't pan out. In the time I was gone
I learned a tremendous amount about myself and what's possible. If you can
something like this set this up, it's only a win-win.

A few reasons to not try something like this: (A) - you're worried you'll set
back any career path you were on track for at google (B) - you're worried they
won't take you back

Have no comment on (A) b/c for me I'm more interested in personal growth than
specific career track at a specific company.

If (B) holds, why wouldn't they take you back? Top engineers are hard to come
by. If you can't make a convincing case that you're in that top category of
engineer, then what has working for Google earned you these past few years?
(Other than $..)

~~~
ksikka
IIRC Google is very open to internal transfers and theyou also have a 6 month
grace period for you to return if you decide to leave.

~~~
throwaway-1209
There's no grace period as far as I know. That'd be stupid on their part:
every keyboard jockey would immediately threaten to leave in hopes of getting
a counter. Why not, if there's a "grace period"?Once you leave, there's no
guarantee whatsoever that they'll want you back, even if you were doing well
before you left. And that's by design.

~~~
goog_throwaway
When I left Google I was told I could come back within a year and not have to
go through the full interview process. Just a few rounds of calls with
recruiters a hiring manager. They apparently do this for anyone who goes out
with high performance ratings on their last perf (Exceeds Expectations or
greater).

Not a grace period per se, but pretty nice.

~~~
throwaway-1209
Yes you could, but there's no guarantee whatsoever they actually will let you
come back. It's a subtle point which many people don't understand. The first
part, them deciding to let you come back, is not deterministic. The second (no
interview if you didn't suck before you left) is. I know several xooglers who
went back (in one case 3 years after leaving, no interviews). I also know
several who got their applications chucked into /dev/null, in spite of being
kickass engineers and good people in all other regards.

------
joejerryronnie
You're 26 years old with a high demand skill set, enough money to last a
couple of years, and presumably no kids to consider - there will not be an
easier time in your life to make this move. Certainly perform your due
diligence at Google to make sure you're leaving on good terms with, ideally,
the opportunity to come back at some point. But start planning your future
now. Traveling the world for a few months will open your eyes to new
project/company opportunities you will never even be exposed to sitting in
Mountain View. If you're gonna be on the road longer than a few months, plan
to pickup an open source side project to keep your skills sharp, build your
network, and create a "balanced center" that you can return to no matter how
foreign your surroundings.

Ah, to be young again with the world laid out at your feet! Not gonna lie, I'm
a little jealous :) I wish you the best of luck and guarantee that, no matter
what ultimately comes of it, you will never regret chasing your dream at least
once in your life.

------
reffaelwallen
Leave Google, and travel wherever you want.

It will be harder later in life assuming you plan on being in a serious
relationship and/or have children. When you are done, and realize that you
have an idea- open a business. if you realize you don't have an idea, join a
different place of work.

After traveling, you might not even want to do SWEing anymore, who know. you
might want to go into permaculture! or a open a parking garage in Tokyo after
meeting a nice person over there.

If you were 32 I would have a different opinion.

With all the crisis with millennias having to find meaning, not having a
steady job and not saving for the future. I write these words and think "is my
suggestion helpful?". in general, I hope saying to someone "go search where
you think you will find yourself" is the healthiest thing. regret is a bitch
later.

Here is a bonus new word to learn "Onism" it was coined by youtube channel
called "Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows". you should take a look at it, it has a
good sense if explaining how I feel about your question:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrBlmpqh8T0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrBlmpqh8T0)

Good luck! being 26 will look a more naive time later in life, but don't only
take my advice. i'm only 28.

------
jalayir
> My mentor suggested to stay at Google until I find an interesting startup
> idea to work on.

This is a sound piece of advice.

However, it looks like you're very keen on traveling. Maybe you can take a
3-month unpaid sabbatical from Google, and see what it feels like?

~~~
throwaway-1209
Junior SWEs don't get a sabbatical, unpaid or otherwise.

~~~
falsedan
How about plain-old unpaided leave?

~~~
throwaway-1209
6 months "to travel"? Your manager will laugh you out of the conference room.
A month, that should be doable.

~~~
falsedan
As a manager, I would listen to the IC's request, say "I'll see what options
are available, let's come back to this next week in out 1-to-1", and then go
to my boss to see how much time we can offer/how to implement a vesting
holiday.

If the options are: lose someone for 6 months, or lose someone completely; I'd
push strongly for the former.

~~~
throwaway-1209
You're a better manager than any of the ones I had at Google. That said, your
boss might laugh _you_ out of the room, bringing us back to square one. He/she
doesn't cherish the idea of hiring a replacement for the duration, or scaling
back what he/she promised to _his/her_ boss (whew, those gender pronouns make
it a mouthful). It's one thing if you need to care for a sick relative or
something, any tech company will make accommodations. But to "travel" so you
could gestate your startup idea -- that's pretty much a GTFO right off the
bat.

~~~
falsedan
> _That said, your boss might laugh _you_ out of the room, bringing us back to
> square one._

That's been my experience as well, but I did manage to get that dev 3 months
(up from 6 weeks).

------
yongjik
"Leaving Google because feeling unfulfilled" is one thing. "Starting one's own
company" is another. "Spending 6 months in SE Asia" is yet another. They don't
necessarily work together toward a common goal: you have to decide what is the
most important to you.

If you decide to leave Google because you don't like it, then obviously that's
up to you, but if you truly want to start your own company, you have a much
better chance of coming up with a good idea (and skills/networks to make it
happen) if you work at Google than if you're traveling the world. Honestly I'm
not sure how the travel and doing startup is even related.

That said, you're young and if you're good you can always get back to Google
(or another similar company). So there's no big harm in trying something
different and seeing if it works.

------
ksikka
It sounds like you're bored, and you don't have a very good reason to start a
company. Starting a company is hard.

A less drastic move is to find a job you'll actually like. They exist.

------
openmosix
As someone who has done this a few times (worked for large enterprise / found
a problem worth to solve / started a company solving that problem / being
acquired by other enterprise that wanted our solution exclusively): don't look
for "ideas", but explore "problems". Working in an enterprise is great,
because you are exposed - every day - to things that do not work in
enterprise. For each problem you meet, ask yourself "would someone pay enough
$$$ to get this problem solved once and for all?". If the answer is yes (and
the problem is inspiring enough for you to dedicate 5+ years on that) the next
phase is: what the distribution channel for a solution would be? Is the market
too fragmented? How I would reach out to customers? What would be the cost to
attract/retain customers? If you figure it out (and it seems a
problem/distribution channel that works) - the next step is to think about a
generic solution. Now you can test the "let's try to attract customers, for
this problem, on my prototype/landing page". If the cycle starts to work, now
it's time to figure out whether you want to quit and build the
company/product/solution for real. The good of this process is that is 100%
compatible with whatever NDA/NC/IP you might have signed, because you haven't
written any lines of code up to this point. And when you leave, you have a
solid framework of what you'll be doing next.

------
googler123345
I am in a very similar situation.

I work at Google and am happy with the team and the product I'm on. The pay is
good and my manager has been very supportive, they treat me very well, etc.
but I'm just very unhappy in my life and considering moving.

I have only been at Google a short time (less than 6 months) but I'm
contemplating switching to another office or just outright quitting and moving
to a cheaper city for a bit.

It's hard to turn down the money. I feel like that's what's keeping me there,
especially with the 1 year cliff for my first batch of equity. I'm afraid one
year will roll around and I'll still be unhappy but then it will be even
harder to turn down the money.

------
jdonaldson
Starting a company is really going to define you as a person. It forces a lot
of hard decisions on you that get baked into your personality. The ups and
downs are either euphoric and horrific. If things go poorly you will deal with
self doubt and heartbreak on a very deep level. Even if things go well you may
end up developing negative personality traits (hubris, callousness,
aggression) that lead to loneliness.

My recommendation is to find a project idea that compels you, and at least one
other bright and capable person that will help ground you. Most successful
companies I've seen have started this way.

------
mythrwy
From an old guy. Stay just a little a bit longer. Another year or maybe two.
Don't stay 10.

Stack up a little more cash, get a better plan.

Don't go away from something. Go towards something.

~~~
dennisgorelik
> Don't go away from something. Go towards something.

Exactly.

------
animex
My question is: Have you stopped learning/growing at Google? Staying at Google
is probably the safe path. But you're stuck at the Mothership; And as guilded
the cage is, it's still a cage. I left my company and now enjoy my days
visiting friends, family, biking, dog-walking etc. and work at nights (on the
nights I want). My capacity to learn has increased 10-fold now that I'm not
slogged down in a 9to5 job (I should add, I'm "old", 46). I've started 3
businesses that are in different stages, one already paying my monthly bills
after just 2 months! All I can say is "FREEEEEEEEEDOM!" :-) That being said,
Google pays amazing and you'll amass a good fortune that can give you
guaranteed freedom if you keep your expenses low and save /invest properly for
8+ years. So the question is: Are you a gambling man? :-)

~~~
imcoconut
> as guilded the cage is, it's still a cage

------
seibelj
I know some googlers who described the engineering culture as hiring the
brightest people to work on the dullest stuff. It's a giant company and lots
of people do amazing things. But not everyone there is having a blast working
on the cutting edge stuff. Someone has to maintain the google web toolkit
gmail codebase.

------
minimaxir
I recently left Apple without a job lined up after years of debating whether
or not it would be a good idea. (full story:
[http://minimaxir.com/2017/05/leaving-
apple/](http://minimaxir.com/2017/05/leaving-apple/))

The reason you're likely afraid is that despite having some safety with
savings, the future is still uncertain, no matter how much you can prepare,
and even with the credibility from working at a Big 4 tech company, that
doesn't mean you'll automatically succeed in future endeavors. (see also
prospect theory:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_theory))

------
eleumik
Two years is too little experience for starting something. At google or any
company that invest on formation, you can still learn a lot with relatively
low stress. Once you start something you wont' have much time to study and you
will pay for it (at least unpaid time). I had same ideas in my late 20's but
if I look now at the projects they would have been disasters ;-) I waited a
little bit.

With google in c.v. you will have door open everywhere. To start something you
maybe also need to give a look to how work some other (maybe smaller)
companies, maybe get hired, stay some months, observe, may be leave. This is
what happened to me before starting to be on my own, but those were the crazy
dot com bubble years (1999).

Freedom is nice but needs a lot of work.

------
yingw787
Never worked at Google, but do you think you could take a sabbatical or long
vacation to travel and think? I think the risk profile would be lower since if
you do come up with something solid, you could leave, and if you don't, you'd
still have a job. Maybe consider doing a side hustle as well? Or part timing
or working remote to get away from it all.

You shouldn't leave google because of all the smart people you have around,
which isn't the same in a startup world, and because there are multiple
projects and divisions and companies you could jump to in order to learn about
different things. You should do a startup if you have an itch and an idea that
makes money and you like doing.

------
uiri
Go travel in SE Asia for 6 months. If that's what you want to do, then you
should go do it. The problem with travel is either having the money but not
enough time, or having the time but not enough money. You have both so you
should seize the opportunity.

When you return, either you'll have an idea for a startup or you'll look for a
new job. It is easy to explain a six month gap with travelling, especially
with the stories to back it up.

Maybe see if you can take a sabbatical or leave of absence like others in the
thread are suggesting. I'm hoping that your mentor is neither your manager nor
on your team since otherwise you've already played your hand.

------
matt_wulfeck
If you have dreams to travel, just do it. Spend a year backpacking and you
will not regret it. Try and stay in an area for a month or longer. The
experience will change you in positive ways and leave you will very memorable
experiences you'll often think back on.

It's simply harder to travel when you're older, and you'll have many more
obstacles to long trips.

If I may, I also really hope you make the trip without internet access.

------
pm24601
Do you know how to:

* manage people?

* raise money?

* deliver/project manage?

* be a product manager?

Do you have:

* a set of friends who have a diverse set of non-SWE skills that are willing to join you?

* Determination to make shit happen?

* the ability to give up vacations and weekends for your startup?

Running a startup sounds romantic, but the reality is considerable less so.

------
nathantotten
Another option, why not find a startup that you can join remotely while
traveling? Unless you really want to not work for 6 months, working during the
week and exploring on the weekend while living anywhere might be a nice
balance. You'll get experience that will help when you find what you want to
do on your own. From a life standpoint traveling for some time is a great
experience. From a career standpoint, having a 6 month gap in your resume at
such a young age could be an issue. I hire a lot of engineers and to be honest
if I saw somebody that worked at google for 2 years and then took 6 months off
to travel I would really worry about their commitment. 2 years is about the
absolute minimum you should stay at one company. Moving any more often tells
me, as a hiring manager, that I risk taking a bet on you, training you, and
then having you leave right when you actually start adding value. Obviously,
this assumes you need to get another job if your startup doesn't work, but
that is unfortunately the most likely outcome.

------
callmeed
Any moderately successful startup/project idea I've had (I've had a few) came
from frustrations/experiences at existing jobs or freelance projects. Same
goes for other startups I've worked at (I've been at a few).

So unless you've already got a few things in mind from working at google or
dealing with your side projects/passions, I wouldn't leave. You're probably
_less likely_ to find a good idea by traveling and being in SE Asia. You're
simply less exposed to the kind of problems that breed good startups and too
far away from (potential) customers.

I don't know google's specific policy regarding side projects, but if you're
in California you do have some rights (so long as you use your own
time/computer and aren't competing).

My advice would be to (a) stay at Google, (b) start brainstorming ideas based
on your current experience/passions/frustrations, (c) consider finding a co-
founder, (d) build an mvp and find 1 customer, (e) quit and work from Asian
once you get closer to product-market fit.

------
justboxing
> My mentor suggested to stay at Google until I find an interesting startup
> idea to work on.

and

>I want to spend 6 months in SE Asia and travel the world before starting my
company.

You may spend months trying to "find an interesting startup idea" to work on
here and come up empty, whereas if you take off and spend even 1 month in SE
Asia and the developing world, you might discover tons of startup ideas that
are really worth solving for the 3rd world.

I know of several Indian-Americans who traveled in India for a few months, and
built cost-effective phones that work on very low bandwidth, apps that help
buy stuff in an almost all-cash economy.

A low-risk option would be to take a month off from Google (vacation) plan
your trip in advance, visit just 1 single SE Asian country (Vietnam, India,
Thailand whatever you fancy) and see what happens.

These countries also have coworking spaces with Hi speed internet, so you
could in theory, take action on a startup idea, and build an MVP in a month's
time (or even less) and drop it on the internets and see what happens.

------
shortoncash
I'm of the opinion that traveling the world isn't what it's cracked up to be.
I traveled a bit, and outside of those brief fleeting moments where I witness
something as breathtaking as the Great Wall of China, most of it was the same
monotony as working on an exciting software project. That is, the traveling
equivalent of mostly fixing bug tickets until the software equivalent of the
Great Wall comes along.

These days I just watch other people on YouTube travel to exotic places and
condense most of their lives down to the 4 minutes that's exciting.

So, in essence, there's a non-zero chance that traveling the world will not be
much better than being at Google. On the flip side, if you do start the
beginning of your startup idea in SE Asia, you'll have the benefit of a long
runway since the cost of living is very low. But, if you're working on your
idea there, it wouldn't be "traveling."

Just remember, the grass is always greener on the other side.

------
falsedan
Re: starting your own company

Is there a problem which you see that no one is addressing? Please put aside
software problems when considering this, since a start-up solving those sorts
of problems is most likely to be acquired by a place like Google in 4-5 years,
putting you in the same situation as you are now (perhaps with more money than
if you stayed).

Have you worked at a small company? Are you excited to learn the skill
necessary for running the day-to-day operations of a business?

Is there some subject that's always on your mind?

Do you have an idea who you want to help with your startup? Do you know anyone
who matches your intended market? Can you think of a role or position that you
could perform where you would meet more of your intended market (before
starting your intended startup)?

Who in your professional network could you reach out to invite to work with
you?

What's your goal? How much money? What will you do with your free time once
you achieve it?

~~~
falsedan
If your answer is "I don't know but I do know that I don't like it here", then
definitely give notice and line up somewhere nice to go and have a think for 6
months or so.

------
marcell
I left Google to work on a couple different start ups that did not work out.
It's not terrible but you miss out on the salary you would have earned had you
stayed at Google.

If you want to travel and start a start up then do that. Google has a nice re-
hire policy if you leave on good terms and have good perf reviews.

------
vibrant
I think you should leave tomorrow.

I'm 36, started in tech 20 years ago. And the only things I regret was working
for someone too long, focusing on the wrong startups for too long (and yes,
you can tell which ones are the bad ideas - mainly if they're too big and not
focused).

The main driver of building your own stuff is necessity, pressure. And the
main fuel is time to strategise and think. So by quitting your job you
basically have all the needed tools.

And then you just need to get involved with things to find the right idea -
talk to people, do things, try this, try that, until you find something that
works and validate it. Watch different industries, see where tech could
reinvent things. Take your time until you find something worthwhile, make sure
it can be profitable in a short amount of time. And consult with people who've
done it.

~~~
eleumik
I agree staying too much is usually not good, but you worked for many
companies, he only for one. Observing many companies (or at least some) is
very useful.

------
zck
Of course leaving a well-paid job for your dreams is scary -- you don't have a
plan! That's not a criticism, that's just how it works. If you were comparing
two plans, you could more easily decide what's better. But right now you're
comparing "stay with what I know" with "maybe my dreams will come true or
maybe I'll die a failure in two weeks".

My advice? Go talk to a therapist (not a mentor, but an actual psychologist)
about what you want to do. That person can help you figure out what you're
afraid of, and how you can deal with it.

------
brookside
Assuming you have a great Google salary, I would live frugally and have enough
money to be financially independent / retire in 5 years.

Then travel or work on whatever you please for the entire rest of your life!

------
goog_throwaway
I left Google as well.

Not many workplaces will match Google in terms of overall lifestyle, but there
are companies that come close. And others can beat it in terms of pay
(Google's base pay, for example, sucks).

I'd recommend leaving. The company is becoming more boring to work at all
around. I've heard this from many friends. More enterprise focused, short-term
money driven and less willing to innovate, mostly monetizing internal
technologies or playing catch-up to other companies. It's a good time to try
something else.

------
cbanek
It's not just fear. It's fear of the unknown. You admit this is your 1st ever
job, so it can be hard to calibrate expectations from employment. It's not all
great though, and even at a great company, you just might be in the wrong
place or working on the wrong product.

I think personal fulfillment is key to good development as a person. You say
you're unfulfilled. Why? Can you make a list? Where do you think things might
be different?

I'd also encourage you just to look for a job, and maybe take some interviews
(perhaps at startups you think are in an interesting field). This might give
you some more perspective, and either let you realize that you want to do
something else - or let you recognize how good you have it, and that you
shouldn't be taking it for granted. Also, recognize the difference between the
perception of starting your own business vs actually doing it. It's a lot of
work. It can be great, but it is certainly easier to jump on a small company
that is doing something you think is interesting.

You don't know what you've got till it's gone. But you will have many jobs in
your life, so I'd just suggest you not get too hung up on any one particular
job, and view it more as a long journey of exploration.

------
bsvalley
Think of it this way, would you jump in a luxurious train that can only travel
through 10 cities max? Or would you jump in a dirty, cheap and slow train that
can go on forever and potentially reach your final destination? Right now
you're seating in the 1st class in a local train. You're at the top of the
mini-chain. That's what we call the "standard" world. You're dreaming about
the "exciting" world, the top %1. When you make the switch you have to jump
off the comfy train and you end-up losing your spot. It took you a while to
get there. Plus, you'll have to find a spot within that dirty train. Life's
tough heh?

People don't like to take risks because they're afraid of making a step
backwards. That's where you're are now. The competition starts at an early
age, school, college, you want to have the best grades, then your first
internship you want to land the best gig in the best company. When you apply
you want to work in the best team. But it's really contained within the
standard world right? Who defines your goals and your paychecks? People from
the "exciting" world. Not you. You can't reach the top %1 because you work for
them. You make them what they are. Do it for yourself, be selfish.

You're already going in the right direction, the problem is, you're in the
wrong train. Jump off while you're young you'll run fast enough to hop on the
dirty train. The journey is long but one day you'll wake up at your final
destination. We'll all die one day. You have nothing to lose my friend but a
seat in 1st class.

------
lobotryas
Do you have the option to take an unpaid leave of absence for 1-2 months? This
way you can travel and sort yourself out without jeopardizing your job.

But hey, you're young so go ahead and be reckless! Leave your job, blow your
savings, come back to the States and see how quickly you are able to find a
new job of the same caliber. You're in a very advantageous position and a
reality check like that should put things into sharper relief for you.

------
x0ner
I wouldn't quit without a firm idea of what you want to start; leaving your
current role without an idea is likely to leave you more bored and questioning
your decision. Having sold a company and worked at Facebook (not Google, but a
great place), I'd suggest a long travel where you disconnect and think about
what you want. As others have mentioned, you're young (29 here) and have
plenty of time to work it out.

------
awinder
What's your vacation schedule been like so far? Just curious if you're
recently recharged or in need of one.

------
pizzadonut
Worked for small software company for 4 years. wasn't interesting work but
company was in Hawaii, so could surf every day. Travelled 8 months in SE Asia.
Stayed home a while and 3 months in central American. I had some of the best
times of my life. Not only fun, the culture is so different and amazing. Opens
your mind in so many ways. The freedom of doing what you feel like without
worrying of having to be at a job in a few weeks or months is priceless. 2
years after leaving my job, needing to find a job I feel like a have a huge
gap in my CV. But it was totally worth it for me, maybe I didn't have
prestigious job like yours but if you have worked for Google, you won't have
any problem finding work if they don't want you back.

------
rayj
It is a great workspace. Probably the best you will ever be able to work at,
if you value stability and having a paycheck. But thE goog employment contract
is more like a cult or indentured servitude, and really gives you insight to
what is going through their minds as far as their Human Resources.

So give it to them right back, and don't lick the corporate boots. I'd work
hard (or at least look like it) because they pay you well, but that's it.
Every day you should be thinking about your next venture or startup, once you
have something mvp profitable just quit and do that. You can find another sw
job, startup, grad school or whatever but you cannot get your life back. Don't
waste it on the safe option.

------
zillionize
Startup life is really hard - you will have to answer questions much harder
than this every day if you do a startup. Therefore, based on my own first hand
experience and observation on more than 100 startups I funded, only passion,
determination and persistence can make your startup a success.

From this point of view, all the questions can come back to the root question
- are you really passionate, determined and persistent by nature? If no
working at Google or any other giant companies is way better than doing your
own startup; Otherwise, you shouldn't come to Hacker News to ask this question
but you have already quit Google because working at Google for one more day is
just a waste of your time one more day.

------
siliconc0w
Just noting that starting a company is a huge amount of often unrewarding work
and unless you have a business co-founder you're going to be doing a lot of
non-SWE work which you may find frustrating. Even with a business co-founder
you're likely going to be wearing a lot of non-SWE hats. It's definitely
gotten easier to start a company, with all sorts of tools and services to make
it easier but that is a relative term. It's still long days, constant sales
(selling the idea to yourself, VCs, potential employees, etc), and dark nights
wondering why you're bothering. It definitely takes some hubris engineers
don't always seem to have (which isn't a bad thing).

------
johan_larson
Google is a good place to work, but it is not the only good place to work, and
in some cases it is not even the best place to work. If you have what it takes
to get in at Google, there are any number of places you could work, so you
wouldn't be giving up a lot if you stepped down for whatever purpose, whether
travel or entrepreneurship.

You are very young with, I'm guessing, no large responsibilities outside your
job. You also have a bit of money. That means you are now free as you will
probably never be again to do what you want. Take this chance to do so if you
feel at all inclined.

The job at Google is in the end just a glorified joe-job, and it or something
very much like it will still be there if you ever want back.

------
iSloth
There is a lot of unknowns - At the moment you're working somewhere which is
easily considered one of the best places in the world to work, maybe you feel
different, but the global perception and aurora will likely still influence
you in some way.

Not only are you considering leaving this, but it would be to stat up a new
any untested company which you are ultimately responsible for.

I'm not saying your job at Google is 'easy', however it's clearly going to be
an easier and more comfortable paycheck.

Following what others have said, you should probably come up with your startup
idea, and try validate with some kind of MVP before taking the plunge and
leaving.

------
king_kerr
You're 26 with a skill-set that's in demand and you've worked for a company
that will give you some clout moving forward. So you should be fine in that
regard. If you're truly passionate about starting your own business, that'll
win out in the long run. Don't pressure yourself into making a decision
prematurely. Take your time. Maybe write down all the pros and cons for both
staying and leaving. At the end of the day, making a well-informed decision is
what I'd like to see anyone do in this situation. Living with regrets can be
tough and you owe it to yourself to pursue your dreams.

------
swimorsinka
Yikes, you're giving me déjà vu. I did exactly what you're thinking of doing
when I turned 25. Google was my first job out of school, and I worked there
for 3 years. I also had a mentor at the time who was encouraging me to stick
around.

I went off and did my own startup for 2.5 years, and then wound up crawling
back to corporate America.

I believed in 'following my passion' when I left, and I definitely wasn't
finding that at Google. After all, my last project there was building
automated tools to serve legal requests for Google+ - not exactly what you
have in mind when you join.

A couple of things I wish I had known when I left:

\- Following your passion is bunk. Most people don't understand themselves
well enough to know what they're passionate about. There are always going to
be parts of jobs that you don't like, even when you're working on your own
stuff. I actually found the percentage of dislike to increase when I was doing
my own stuff - I had to do sales and marketing for my own company. I never had
to worry about that at Google.

\- A lot of people try to find some larger meaning for what they're working
on. I always wanted to work on 'something really important', and I wasn't
finding that at Google. Problem is there just aren't that many 'really
important' things. Even if you work on phenomenally successful products like
the iphone, you could argue that product did not make the world much better in
any meaningful way. What's worse, 80% of software developers spend their
careers making glorified CRUD apps, or worse.

But this problem goes away if you just drop your need for doing something
important. Nowadays, I don't care about the larger meaning of what I'm doing.
I don't get hung up on that mental argument. I just take immense pleasure in
the craft of producing software. Writing code is wonderful - you get to solve
puzzles all day and learn new things. If that code changes the world, then
great, but I don't 'need' it anymore.

\- Pay - quitting Google cost me 1/2 a million dollars. I didn't make squat in
my startup over the next 2.5 years. When I went looking for a job (I'm in
Colorado), I realized that Google pays in the 90th percentile, and it was hard
to find companies who would match my former salary.

So in retrospect, I probably would have stayed and just worked on side
projects to satisfy my curiosity while I continued to make bank at my day job.

There are many, many wonderful things about Google - the people are all super
smart and competent, the internal systems rock, HR 'just works', things like
expense reports aren't a pain in the ass, and you can go off and explore
awesome internal technologies.

Yes, you might spend some time working on 'boring' stuff, but that's going to
be true at any job.

Anyway, that's just me, and I have a ton of perspective. I never would have
found that perspective if I hadn't quit, so everyone has to follow their own
journey.

Good luck.

~~~
dennisgorelik
> building automated tools to serve legal requests for Google+

That is a narrow AI development. Why weren't you excited?

------
sandipagr
I cannot recommend traveling highly enough. I was in a similar spot as you and
left Google last year in February to travel. The plan was to travel for 6
months but I ended up doing it for 11 months.

After returning back in January this year, I joined a super early stage
startup and couldn't be more happier.

You are in a great position. Do what you really want to do and don't let fear
hold you back. Life is too short to spend time on things you don't really
enjoy. Feel free to reach out (email in profile) if you want to chat more.

------
chrismcb
My suggestion. Forget the startup for the moment (unless you already have an
idea) plan a 6 month trip to Asia. Take some time planning it, figure out the
best time to go. Then quit shortly before you go. When you get back take some
more time off, work on your own project, or some open source. Our maybe you
came up with an idea. Then go back to Google, or somewhere else. The thing is
you are young enough to stop also be able to get a job. And who knows, maybe
you will find a better one.

------
ptero
Fear of regrets is not a good justification for avoiding a change, especially
when you are young and healthy. That said, it seems you fo not have a well
understood goal and just want to run _from_ Google. If so, I'd flesh out where
you want to go next and the way to get there before you make the jump.

Once you do I think you will feel a lot less worried -- your cash cushion is
pretty hefty to allow for quite a bit of risk

------
galfarragem
Change careers like tarzan:

[https://sivers.org/tarzan](https://sivers.org/tarzan)

~~~
eleumik
where I live this joke is used for people that change relationships in that
way

------
BilalBudhani
> My mentor suggested to stay at Google until I find an interesting startup
> idea to work on.

IMO the odds of this happening is very slim compared to you going out on your
own. When you travel around you get to experience a lot of problems first hand
and then solutions to those problems come naturally to you.

~~~
michaelw
This is simply not true. In fact, working at Google will expose you to all
kinds of interesting ideas and problems. Many of those problems will just sit
there because Google can't prioritize them right now.

------
timwaagh
yes, google is too good a salary to leave. for most people. or at least that's
what i understand. I consider it unlikely your startup would succeed as like
9/10 do not. being at google is prestige and money. so if you want the most
prestige or money, i recommend staying.

but money as they say is not everything. the amount you saved up counts for
more the further away you get from the place you are now. perhaps there are
places you could happily live out the rest of your life with the money you
have now. so in that case and it sounds like you want this, yeah go have some
fun :)

------
Bookington
I'm a manager of PMs at Amazon. Also 26 and also trying to quit and travel SE
asia for 3-6 months. Email me if you'd want to talk:
jstoneproductions@gmail.com. It's scary for sure.

------
michaelw
Let's count all the reasons not to leave:

1) If you don't have an amazing idea now, leaving won't make it easier. If
anything it will be worse since you won't be constantly exposed to real-life
problems.

2) Building great product is about a lot more than ideas. It's about
execution, timing, scaling and a ton of luck.

3) After only two years at Google you're probably an L3 or L4 engineer. You
have much to learn. Seriously. It probably took you a year to become
productive so you've only scratched the surface. Go find a senior mentor and
get them to talk about their journey. You'll be surprised.

4) Startups are hard. Don't believe the hype. Your startup will fail you. Even
if the startup succeeds, you personally are unlikely to hit a payday. Remember
the Golden Rule: Those who have the gold make the rules. The most likely
outcome from any startup is that it fails. The second most likely outcome is
that it fizzles and gets bought. Your equity would turn into a diluted options
over 4 years.

5) In another 3 years at Google you'll save so much money that you'll have an
entirely different set of financial options

6) Your long term career impact and financial success will actually be better
off if you find a way to apply your ideas and passions within Google.

7) You are currently surrounded by some of the smartest software people in the
world working on some of the hardest problems.

8) Look for a transfer to one of Google's SE Asian offices. Lots of
interesting projects there.

To be blunt, it sounds like you're finding out that working as a software
engineer is, well, work. It is. That doesn't mean you can't find your passion
in what you do.

Buy yourself your own computer and work on your dreams at home while receiving
the engineering and execution experience of your lifetime. Actively seek to
learn more about your craft from a company that is still writing the book on
this. Take advantage of internal instruction opportunities to expand your
skillset (where else will you get paid to learn about ML from some of the
best). Once you've earned your stripes at Google you'll be able to work
anywhere on a just about anything. You'll also find that you actually
understand the realities of product development and software engineering in
ways you do not today.

I started working at Microsoft in the late 80s. I'm now at Google as a PM.
I've done a bunch of startups and consulting along the way. My career has
spanned over 30 years and there's no doubt in my mind that it was the time at
Microsoft that gave me experience, skills and opportunities I would never have
had elsewhere.

If your heart is set on the romance of startups, go find it. You'll learn a
lot there too. Just don't do it because you're bored of work.

PM me if you want an extended version of this with Google insider specifics.

------
sametmax
With Google on your resumé, you won't have problems to find another job.
Travel the world for one year, use the second year to find a more fullfilling
activity.

Honesty it's a no brainer.

------
atmosx
Almost every time someone starts a question on with a "Why shouldn't I [...]"
my answer is "If you don't know why, then you should [...]".

------
tejasmanohar
It seems like most everyone here agrees that you're not more likely to think
of a idea after you leave Google to travel. What about to go back to school?

------
johnrob
You should have a specific idea and not just the desire to start a company.
I'd recommend waiting until you have that idea.

------
kleer001
Yea, man, don't quit your day job.

Unless you got a sure thing lined up.

Unless you got a thirst for high risk. It's your life, man.

------
dirtylowprofile
SE Asia? Come to Philippines, there are a lot of startups here and so much to
solve out here.

------
slackingoff2017
Your first ever job is at Google? At 24? And no loan debt? How is that even
possible. Not to be a dick, but honestly it sounds like your family is wealthy
enough that you can do whatever you want.

~~~
aianus
> Your first ever job is at Google? At 24? And no loan debt? How is that even
> possible.

You go to school in Canada ($10k/year tuition) and do internships in the US
($8k/month salary). Not uncommon at all and doesn't require any family money.

~~~
slackingoff2017
I got paid 15 an hour for both of my coding internships. $8k a month is more
than I make as a full time dev in the US with an advanced degree.

In fact I've known hundreds of engineers over the years and none of them got
paid that much for an internship.

Maybe you know some really lucky people, either rich or in the top 0.1% of
intelligence. What you're describing and the setting OP is in are extremely
unusual situations. Complaining about working at Google for your first job and
having enough money to not work for years is like complaining that your
private jet is too small.

~~~
aianus
Lowest I've ever heard of is $4k a month for an internship in the SF Bay Area.
$8k is the highest I took home but all my US internships were over $6500. This
was throughout 2011-2013.

If you're making less than $8k/month as a full time dev in the US you're
either in a very low CoL location or you really need to switch jobs.

------
maxwin
If you ever visit Myanmar, send me an email.

