
Hundreds of workers defy Amazon rules to protest company's climate failures - perfunctory
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jan/27/amazon-workers-climate-protest
======
benmmurphy
One of the quotes seems to imply Amazon should not let oil and gas companies
use their cloud services. Having these companies use less efficient
alternatives would seem to be a net loss for society. I don’t think there is a
positive upside because the change in cost would not be large enough to change
output.

~~~
gersh
If the oil companies have to use a more expensive alternative service, it will
drive up the marginal cost of extracting oil, and make oil less cost
competitive against renewables. Furthermore, Amazon will no longer have
business incentive to support the continuation of the fossil fuel industry,
which could influence how they lobby on legislation.

~~~
keanzu
> If the oil companies have to use a more expensive alternative service

Microsoft is delighted to announce we are the digital transformation partner
of #IPTC2020, the International Petroleum Technology conference, that kicks
off tomorrow in Dahran until the 15th of January

[https://twitter.com/Microsoft_Saudi/status/12162861906530508...](https://twitter.com/Microsoft_Saudi/status/1216286190653050880)

Oil companies don't need to worry, MS will be happy to provide equivalent
services for similar rates.

------
throwawayhsksn
I know a guy who works at Amazon. The person who spammed the internal email
list soliciting participants for this is no longer at the company.

Survey sent in the email:
[https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZSJH2G3](https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZSJH2G3)

~~~
krn
> The person who spammed the internal email list soliciting participants for
> this is no longer at the company.

I could understand this from the AMZN shareholders point of view: as an
employee of the company you are paid to defend private interests, not public
interests.

~~~
paganel
> as an employee of the company you are paid to defend private interests, not
> public interests

So all that "stakeholder capitalism" recent discussion was pure BS? [1]

[1] [https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-
relations/larry...](https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/investor-
relations/larry-fink-ceo-letter)

~~~
krn
That should come from the top, not from the bottom of the company. It's not
the responsibility of a lower level employee to define what his company stands
for. Everyone is free to work for a company that matches his values.

~~~
paganel
> Everyone is free to work for a company that matches his values.

No, they are not. Maybe it is true for a select group of people (computer
programmers, some lawyers, some medical professionals), but the vast majority
of people are not "free to work" and choose any company that matches "their
values". Which makes protests like this one even more important and
noteworthy, as those people protesting are risking a lot more compared to the
"privileged" professions I mentioned above.

~~~
krn
> Which makes protests like this one even more important and noteworthy, as
> those people protesting are risking a lot more compared to the "privileged"
> professions I mentioned above.

The profession doesn't matter at all, because anyone can go to the streets and
protest to defend public interests. But attacking your own employer is not a
solution. Why not to look for a job at NGO, or get involved in a non-profit
startup instead? Oh, it doesn't pay well enough? Then you have to come into an
agreement with yourself.

~~~
paganel
> Why not to look for a job at NGO, or get involved in a non-profit startup
> instead?

You're seriously asking why a lowly-paid Amazon employee doesn't look for a
NGO or a non-profit startup job instead? No offence, but is this satire? It
seems like a Silicon Valley episode to me.

~~~
krn
> No offence, but is this satire? It seems like a Silicon Valley episode to
> me.

As an EU citizen from a country with an average personal income of less than
1000€ / month, I don't see any problem with not working for a company that
stands against what I firmly believe in. It doesn't necessarily have to be an
NGO or a non-profit. If you care about climate change more than about anything
else, get a job at TSLA.

~~~
CalRobert
"As an EU citizen"

This does confer some benefits with respect to safety net, etc. Working for an
NGO might mean your kid not getting adequate health care.

Also, I don't believe TSLA is in a position to hire everyone who might like to
work there (and they're not perfect themselves considering Elon's opposition
to public transport that actually works, like buses)

~~~
natch
I don't think he's opposed to buses or public transport. That's ridiculous.
You've taken his words out of context. That being said, there are huge
advantages to cars, which is why most people use them. And buses too. It's not
either or. It's more just one thing at a time, starting with whatever has the
most impact when you take reality into account.

------
keanzu
Don't know why Amazon doesn't just leave protestors to their actions. Bezos
needs to watch Southpark episode 100 and rethink the strategy.

    
    
      We can be a nation that believes in war
      And still tells the world that we don't
      Let the flag for Hypocrisy
    

[https://southpark.cc.com/clips/103534/bleeding-heart-rock-
pr...](https://southpark.cc.com/clips/103534/bleeding-heart-rock-protest-song-
vs-pro-war-country-song)

------
andrewmutz
Pollution from carbon emissions are a classic market failure. It's not the
responsibility of the market participants to fix the market failure, its the
responsibility of the elected policy-makers (and transitively, the voters) to
fix it.

The problem is not Amazon or other large companies continuing to do business
as usual. The problem is the people who stand in the way of using normal
political mechanisms to regulate carbon emissions.

~~~
asokoloski
For anyone who wants to know how they can help with this, personally:
Citizens' Climate Lobby is a nonpartisan group that is trying to get a
revenue-neutral carbon fee and dividend (The Energy Innovation and Carbon
Dividend Act, H.R. 763) through Congress.
[https://citizensclimatelobby.org/](https://citizensclimatelobby.org/) CCL
promotes a measured approach, focused on this single task -- it's not about
protesting or venting frustration. I personally think it's the most effective
way to make a real difference.

And H.R. 763 has strong support of both climate scientists and economists as
an effective way to reduce our emissions and mitigate climate change.

~~~
amelius
I'd suggest to first fix the accounting. So you introduce a tax which is
exactly nulled by a subsidy. This is much easier to get through Congress. Once
you have the accounting in place, you can start pushing to lower the
subsidies.

------
swsieber
An incredibly huge environmental failure, though not one I've seen framed as
such, is their counterfeit problem. Shipping a bunch of useless (counterfeit)
stuff probably exacts a huge environmental toll.

------
mclightning
Confusing headline, editorialized too much probably.

------
elfexec
"More than 340 tech workers at Amazon used the hashtag #AMZNSpeakOut in public
statements that condemn the company for not taking sufficient action on the
climate crisis."

340 whole workers?

Total number of amazon employees : 750,000

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_\(company\))

So 749,660 employees did not protest? Shouldn't that be the real news?

~~~
iicc
340 whole workers risking their livelihoods.

~~~
llcoolv
Come on, that's a bit too dramatic. Tech people don't stay unemployed for too
long.

~~~
llcoolv
Alright, so many downvotes and not a single reasonable critique. I was just
saying that those people would very easily find new employment, so saying that
they're "risking their livelihood" is far-fetched to say the least.

~~~
kufuffin
I think you’re being downvoted because you’re downplaying what they are
potentially risking. They could be putting hundreds of thousands of dollars in
their stock plans at risk. They could be risking getting blackballed. Who
knows?

------
narag
So they're under exploitative working conditions and they protest against...
climate change? Honestly, I can't understand.

~~~
kufuffin
How do you know they’re not protesting both?

~~~
narag
Or maybe it's not the same people with the extreme jobs. I didn't even
consider that. Because if it were me, I'm sure the first news to reach
everybody wouldn't be these ones.

