
How I Run a Company with ADHD - askins4trouble
https://www.andrewaskins.com/how-i-run-a-company-with-adhd/
======
jordanbeiber
It’s interesting to see how hard if is to separate ADD from ADHD by a
description of traits or behaviors.

I have ADD and pretty much recognize myself in a lot of this.

It’s almost impossible to focus on anything that is not interesting “right
now” and what is “interesting” changes in cycles spanning a few weeks.

During a cycle I become completely absorbed, you know, not eat, not sleep and
not being communicative, absorbed.

For a long time this worked out both personally (depending on who you ask) and
with my employers/employees that so far have had no issues with my rather
irregular rhythm (thank you tech!).

Oh, the storytelling and talking... I feel sorry for my brain and, in
retrospect, people that had to listen (I’m sorry! And I didn’t mean to be rude
and offensive, it was just my thoughts at that very second!).

As life have changed mainly through becoming a dad it has also become a lot
more difficult —- not everything about kids is “interesting”, and staying up
to 4 to tinker with something “interesting” is just such a bad idea when
someone jumps on your face at 6.

Everyone needs food? And it’s my responsibility? Today again?! Phew... etc.

Spending energy on “non-interesting” things really is draining and seem to
lead to kind of mini depressions.

I’m happy that I’ve come to a point where I at least can see some of this
behavior which allows me to work on some changes.

Hard work though!

Perhaps I should write about how I run(?) a family with ADD? It would make for
a lot of laughs and a some sad stuff.

~~~
Mirioron
ADD is now under the umbrella of ADHD. ADHD just has 3 types:[0]

1\. ADHD Predominantly Inattentive (ADHD-PI)

2\. ADHD Predominantly Hyperactive (ADHD-PH?)

3\. ADHD Combined (ADHD-C)

ADD falls under the first one. It makes sense that you'd recognize yourself in
that. They're now considered to be the same disorder, but just presenting in a
different way.

One of the things that's usually not discussed, but what you should watch out
for is emotional control. Apparently it's easier for people with ADHD to have
their emotions flip. Russell Barkley has an amazing series of lectures about
it. You can find various bits on YouTube. You could see if maybe you'll
discover even more about yourself.

[0]
[https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html)

~~~
andai
I too highly recommend Russel Barkley's videos about ADHD. They taught me so
much. The most striking thing was learning how it's a primarily emotional
disorder, and how this has harmed my relationships.

Here's a fantastic lecture (split into ~5 minute segments -- this guy gets it
:) by Dr. Barkley:

ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas Everyone Needs to Know

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM&list=PLzBixSjmbc...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzhbAK1pdPM&list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-
cvY)

~~~
jordanbeiber
Have to second the emotional and relationship aspect of it.

The general physician I went to initially to kick of the quest for diagnosis
obviously had an interest and gave me a book called “the answer” (edit).

If you are Swedish: “hemligheten”

In english the tag line (translated by me): “from moments to lasting
relationships”

~~~
andai
Found the English version :)

The Answer: How to start a relationship and make it last

[https://www.amazon.com/Answer-start-relationship-make-
last/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Answer-start-relationship-make-
last/dp/9187441969)

~~~
verelo
Could not find any reviews on this book, can you go into any detail around how
it helped you?

~~~
jordanbeiber
It kind of made me think and question why I had such attachment issues.

Why the same pattern I saw in how I had to be ”interested” to give something
or someone my attention repeated over and over.

I’ve had many relationships over the years with a specific pattern: I lose
interest in about a year.

One total burn-out after another. Extreme interest followed by absolutely
nothing.

There’s a follow up book I can’t find in English called (my translation): ”The
dark secret”, that treats what they call ”deorganized attachement”

This one’s actually more relevant for me personally as my youth and upbringing
was... “interesting” and in several ways traumatic.

On the topic of books:

“Healing ADD” was really useful for my partner:

[https://www.bookdepository.com/Healing-Add-Daniel-
Amen/97804...](https://www.bookdepository.com/Healing-Add-Daniel-
Amen/9780425269978)

------
ScottFree
My reaction to this article has been... complex.

\-----

Bah! Another article about ADHD. ADHD's over diagnosed and not not as big a
problem as people make it out to be. But, I'm curious all of a sudden, so I
might as well read it.

> For the first 19 years of my life I knew I was lazy.

Yeah, I'm pretty lazy too. That's just who I am, though. I don't have ADHD...

> So what, you can't stop bouncing your leg at the restaurant?

I thought I was the only one that did that. It drives my aunt crazy.

> I'll be halfway through a team meeting and realize I haven't heard anything
> that was said. That's ADHD.

 _THAT 'S_ ADHD? I do that all the time. I can't listen to podcasts either.
But I just have difficulty processing the spoken word. I'm much more of a book
learner anyway.

> I was happiest with my nose in the book

I'm seeing a disturbing pattern take shape.

> I'll take a break to read an article and hours will go by before I realize
> what's happened. Not minutes, hours. That's ADHD.

Wat.

> I'm horrible at completing simple, repetitive tasks. I'm terrible at time
> management, and conceptualizing time in general.

Uh oh.

Other comments here have mentioned that stimulants help ADHD sufferers focus.
I recently cut back to 2 20oz cans of red bull a day, but I was up to 4 a few
years ago. I just thought caffeine was my drug of choice. Everyone's addicted
to something, right?

I currently have 52 open tabs on my laptop and another 37 open on my desktop.

I'm not quite sure what to do with all of this. I just thought I was lazy.

~~~
firecall
I have ADHD. There are other serious neurological issues connected to ADHD.
It's a very misunderstood disorder with a broad spectrum of identifiable
symptoms that could indicate ADHD.

If you are heavily medicating with caffeine, then that can be a signal. I was
using Pseudoephedrine and caffeine to self medicate and stabilise my moods and
behaviours. That was before I got prescribed Ritalin.

But as the article says, I find Ritalin dulls my creative thinking and pattern
matching that is required for insightful realisations.

Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria is big problem for me. I over think things, the
slightest misread comment can ruin my day.

I also have a problem with cyclical depression and euphoric highs that are a
bit like bi-polar but not as severe.

So yeah - It's hell. I hate having ADHD. I never looked for a diagnosis, but
when I got one it was a light-bulb moment. Life still sucks. It's not a super-
power and I'm not blessed.

~~~
jachee
How, as an adult, did you get a doctor to diagnose ADHD? Every time I've
brought it up with a healthcare provider, I lay out my difficulties and coping
mechanisms, and the conversation ends with them saying "Well, it sounds like
it's not much trouble for you. Anything else?"

I just don't know how to make them _get_ it. I feel like I have so much
potential for success, but I can't harness it.

~~~
throwmeback
That sounds like my GP. I struggle with anxiety, depression and obesity among
other things. Every time I go to an appointment with them I hear "Well, it's
all in the head you know."

I hate this and it's the case with most GPs, at least in my country. I
genuinely just wish my therapist was also my GP.

~~~
thecatspaw
> Well, it's all in the head you know.

Yes I know, thats exactly where the issue is.

~~~
Moru
In general that means they think it's imaginary. Find another doctor.

~~~
balfirevic
It's particularly malicious as it's using a phrase that is literally true and
accurate description of the problem to dismiss the existence of the problem!

------
jonathanstrange
Okay, I start with a disclaimer, I suspect this opinion to be unpopular on HN.
Anyway, I can't help thinking that ADHD is one of those mental disorders that
merely reflects some increased demands of society rather than a genuine mental
disorder and that people with ADHD are just part of the natural variation of
different personality types.

There also seems to be a huge divide between the US and Europe, where such
disorders seem to be diagnosed way less often. It has always appeared to me
that many people in the US are more easily considered mentally ill when they
do not fully conform to society's expectations, and at the same time the
people who suffer from severe mentally illness are less cared for in the US
than in Europe. Or maybe that's just how the media portray it.

~~~
yc-kraln
Diagnosed at 6 with ADHD in the US by a proper battery of psychiatrists,
therapists, etc. Medicated until 17. Still going to therapy regularly in the
EU to deal with a myriad of ongoing issues as ADHD has changed how it impacts
my life into adulthood. I am a "textbook" case.

So basically the reality of my life is not subject to your opinions. Stop
projecting your value system onto other people's lives.

~~~
INTPenis
I'm sorry to hear that but just because someone diagnosed you at 6 doesn't
mean I believe it's right to medicate a child that early.

If you could do it all over again, would you have waited until you were grown
before you took medication?

~~~
zaarn
I would have preferred to be medicated with 6 rather than 14, which is when I
started medication for ADHD.

~~~
falcolas
I wouldn’t have flunked half as many classes, nor taken 15 years to get into
my career of choice, had I been diagnosed and treated at 6, and not 36.

------
atiredturte
AD(H)D is a complicated and commonly misunderstood condition. Despite its
name, it does not mean people with it have a deficit of attention. It involves
(amongst other things): atypical dopamine production/regulation, and issues in
the Prefrontal Cortex (where executive functions are handled).

Because of this, it's not unusual for other conditions to cause people to
experience similar symptoms to those with AD(H)D. The main difference, is that
for people with AD(H)D, the symptoms are chronic and disruptive.

Many symptoms caused by the executive function component can also be
experienced by those who have theirs inhibited. This can be because they are:
tired, stressed, drunk etc.

When reading this or other articles on AD(H)D, if you resonate with the
symptoms I urge you to read up and potentially get diagnosed.

Just please don't assume that "everyone has some kind of ADHD" or that "ADHD
is't real" because some symptoms are shared by other conditions, and can often
seem like regular parts of the human condition.

~~~
rtpg
Best descirption I've heard that sidesteps the "oh yeah I can't read a book
either" is that ADHD is about a deficit in intention.

Things that aren't "can't focus" that are symptoms of ADHD:

\- bad temper \- speaking before thinking (followed by immediate regret) \-
often making spur of the moment decisions without thinking of long-term
consequences

The overarching thing being that lots of people with ADHD do things _despite
knowing on a rational level that it's not a good idea_, because that thought
usually isn't loud enough to actually stop your actions (at least not fast
enough anyways).

There's always a bit of "yeah everyone has that" when you talk about laziness
and lack of focus, making it feel a bit like an unfalsifiable diagnosis. But
there's a lot of people who most definitely don't have bad temper issues or go
binge drinking all the time (Though this isn't everyone with ADHD either of
course).

~~~
atiredturte
Good points!

The symptoms you describe are impacted by the two elements I described
(executive function issues and dopamine regulation).

People with AD(H)D have issues with regulation and executive function, which
can lead to issues in how one controls themselves. This can lead to the issues
of controlling oneself that you describe.

On top of that, dopamine (which is more accurately a "motivation hormone",
which creates the desire to do things) is different in AD(H)D brains.
Basically, people with AD(H)D will get a dopamine kick from certain types of
behaviours, and not from others. This can result in the relative importance of
tasks being very different from neuro-typical ordering. As a result, addictive
behaviours can be more common (especially for things like video-games), or
also the prevalence of hyper-focus that people with AD(H)D experience.

I agree with your last paragraph fully. The lack of understanding around the
condition can lead many to make uninformed actions and opinions that can be
harmful to those with AD(H)D, diagnosed or not. This can have negative impacts
on patient mental health, and is the reason why people should be more aware of
this oft misunderstood condition.

------
blakesterz
ADHD sucks. I mean, it ain't cancer, but it sucks. I was never officially
diagnosed, but when my son was at 7 is when I realized what ADHD really is,
and that I'm an ADHD guy. Some how I made it through 40+ years with it and
never knew it. I struggled though college, took me 9 years to get my BA.
Somehow got a masters. Somehow managed to get a series of better jobs after my
degrees. And I've somehow succeeded in life (my definition of succeeded) with
ADHD and without any help or anything. I struggle with it every day still.
ADHD sucks, I have no idea how I got to where I am, but I know I'm lucky. It's
also made me a better parent to my ADHD kid, I know what he's going through,
it's taught me patience and kindness that I never had growing up. If you don't
know much about ADHD , it's not what you think it is.

~~~
alehul
As someone who also has it: have you tried medicine like Adderall?

I’m so torn on it. On one hand, it makes me so productive, but on the other,
it makes me so unemotional and cold and abrasive.

It also makes me sweat, increases my heart rate, and has a terrible comedown
when taken often.

I was diagnosed at 16 and was on it for years, eventually moving up to 4x the
dosage as my body grew resistance.

I’ve stopped it for the past couple years, and now am back to the lowest
dosage on rare occasions I take it, but still unsure how to feel about it.

~~~
system2
Yes, you pretty much summed up all. Don't forget sleepless nights if you took
it after 11 am or later. Also: Heartburn, dry mouth, and severe dehydration,
loss of appetite (yay for this one actually). And flushing (pee pee pee all
day).

IF you are working from home with minimal contact, it works. Never EVER answer
a phone call when you are on it (this is to whoever planning to use it in the
future). God knows, how many times I argued with a client just because of
Adderall.

It forces anyone using it to keep the communication to a minimum. And when a
client calls (usually oblivious, but demanding), you will end up arguing at
some point.

Adderall = never do anything social including phone calls. I am serious.

~~~
thecatspaw
> Don't forget sleepless nights if you took it after 11 am or later.

Medication that keeps you awake for 16 hours leads to sleepless nights if
taken late into the day, more news at 2.

~~~
smileybarry
Depends on the dosage, while he mentioned Adderall those are the exact side-
effects I had with Ritalin, and that comes in all forms: "normal" (4 hours),
long-last (8 hours), slow-release (also 8 hours-ish, different chemical
implementation), and more I don't remember/know.

The shorter durations (4 hours) are more effective than the longer, but also
require taking it several times a day. And I think neither 4 nor the 8 keep
you awake for 16 hours. Occasionally I'd even get the side effect of _making_
me drowsy, and I had to take a nap right there. Thankfully that usually
happened when I would take Ritalin for studying at home later in the day,
rather than at school.

~~~
thecatspaw
True, 16 hours was over the top. I think my concerta bottle (methylphenidate,
same ingredient as ritalin but extended release) says something around 12
hours.

My point however was that if you take medication which can keep you awake for
X hours less than X hours before bed, you could have a bad time.

> Occasionally I'd even get the side effect of making me drowsy, and I had to
> take a nap right there.

I've read about this, for some taking ritalin actually helps them sleep since
it makes the brain shut up and be quiet, instead of racing all the time

------
snazz
I wonder how common this is among HNers. I felt like I could relate to many of
the feelings in the article and I certainly have trouble keeping track of time
(w.r.t. rabbit holes and whatnot) and do better with some external motivation.
In particular, I can be “hyperfocused” when it comes to interesting technical
challenges for many hours, but I get distracted instantly when doing my email,
the laundry, or taxes. I’m not sure if the magnitude might be what sets me
apart from people who have genuinely been diagnosed with ADHD or if no one
ever suspected it because I did well in school and at work.

~~~
filmgirlcw
You may or may not have some ADHD tendencies, but it’s not uncommon for people
to miss out on diagnosis as children.

I wasn't diagnosed until I was 19 or 20 because my perfectionism (which was/is
directly tied to the anxiety/major depression I was diagnosed with at 14, but
self-diagnosed at 9) sort of overrode the traditional symptoms. I did well in
school (because I couldn’t NOT have perfect grades). I excelled at work. For
many years, I was compulsively neat. (I’m not really sure what happened to the
neatness).

When I was 17, I was put on ADHD meds as a way to treat side-effects of an
antidepressant, but I found it had a ridiculously positive impact on my life.
In college, I was formally diagnosed, and my psychiatrist posits that the fact
that I appeared to be “fine” is what kept me under the radar. According to my
doctor, it’s not uncommon for that to happen, especially if the individual is
of above-average intelligence (I was given the “gifted” label before entering
kindergarten).

I always “joke” (except, it’s not a joke an I’m 100% serious), that I’m a
high-functioning ADHD person. And it’s true; over the last 15 years or so,
I’ve learned to augment my behavior and recognize when the disease is impeding
on my life. For clarification: being able to recognize something != always
being able to change what is happening. I’ve also been fortunate to find work
in fields where my ability to do multiple things at once is useful.

But I tell people I’m in meetings with frequently about the stuff I do to help
quell my worst tendencies (I play puzzle games on my phone, for instance, so
that I can pay attention to what people are saying. It looks rude, but the
alternative is me literally not being able to focus on what is being said. And
when I explain it, I’ve never found someone to be unsupportive), and I try to
plan and make adjustments for my own time clock.

Like you, if it’s something I’m interested in, I can be hyper focused for
hours. But the second something is born for even just not that compelling,
it’s a struggle.

~~~
peshooo
> I play puzzle games on my phone.

Jesus, I did this a lot in my previous job, and couldn't explain it to my
colleagues. Always felt so judged.

~~~
filmgirlcw
Yeah, people will sometimes judge, but I try to explain the why.

“I’m doing this so that I can pay attention. It sounds counterintuitive but it
is not.”

I had an editor once (I should note, he went on to become my mentor), get
really frustrated that I wasn’t “paying attention” and he quizzed me like we
were in school and I just rattled off a complete list of everything that had
been discussed, as well as some ideas that hadn’t — and he kind of looked
stunned. I told him (again), dude, there’s a method to my madness.

He never got mad at me for “playing on my phone” in an editors meeting again.

------
hateful
I also have ADHD (and felt the irony of watching my leg shake while reading
about the author's leg shaking). I tend to do a lot of what the author is
saying. "Planned distractions" help. I try to work in blocks of time
(sometimes about 20 minutes) but when my mind starts to wander I let it and
use that time to check my e-mail (or HN) then go back to the task.

Keeping a task list is definitely key. I have a plain text file called
"tasks.txt" open at all times and in the morning I'll list the stuff. I live
by the "if it takes under 5 minutes do it right away" mantra.

Sometimes I'll end up working on a task, that while it does need to get done,
is not necessarily the first task on my list (or on the list at all). So after
a "distraction break", I check my task list again so I don't forget.

I am extremely good at figuring out issues. I'm a technical architect
(programmer) and I often find myself going around and fixing others' issues
quickly, but time management and attention to detail are definitely issues -
issues that have been thankfully solved by technology and forethought.

~~~
nefitty
Cool. You've implemented your own form of the pomodoro technique, the 2-minute
rule and most important tasks (MIT's) to get yourself organized. I think this
is one way I've managed with a lot of the issues the author mentions... I'm
just now hesitant to seek help for some reason, even though I know there might
be something more besides methodology that can help me.

------
manigandham
I create a todo list with only 1 thing showing. I either skip it or work on it
but there's only ever 1 thing. If I drift off, I look at that again every 10
mins (via alert) and get back on track.

It's the only thing I've found that keeps me reigned in to a single task and
grinding down the work instead of wasting away hours.

~~~
smileybarry
I do a similar thing: my work PC's todo list is a few tasks (with maybe a line
of detail on some tasks), but my calendar has a daily repeating all-day
"reminder" titled the current meta-task. That way whenever I glance at my
phone it's enough to send me back on track.

------
jwr
Andrew, you need to read the book "Driven" by Douglas Brackmann and Randy
Kelley. You will quite likely find out that the book describes you well. If
I'm guessing right, you are one of the "driven", people with certain genes
expressed differently from 90% of the population. ADHD is just one of the
possible visible symptoms, there are certain other markers that are important
(some of which you exhibit: you are a founder/entrepreneur for example).

Give the book a try. It changed my life (and I don't say that lightly). If I'm
right, it might change yours.

~~~
KingFelix
Just read it, awesome book, I pass DR. Brackmanns office in San Diego almost
every day. Didn't find out till after I finished the book and looked him up.
Wild, thanks for the recommendation!

------
GreeniFi
To the writer (if looking on this board), thank you for this piece.

Have you ever come across this article in the Economist, summarizing research
providing evidence that ADHD is a legacy of our nomadic past when ADHD traits
conferred an evolutionary advantage?

[https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/science-
and-t...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/science-and-
technology/2008/06/12/the-misfits)

My takeaway is that entrepreneurship is one of the few areas of modern life
where ADHD might actually be a help rather than a hindrance.

~~~
danaos
Not OP, but as a sufferer, I boldly disagree. There may be some benefits
related to brainstorming and "out of the box" thinking but they are
overshadowed by the disastrous consequences of being unable to organize and
execute.

~~~
GreeniFi
Have you been able to find hacks and/or work arounds? Reading the article, I
wondered if ADHD might manifest with a range of severities. I have heard of
ADHD sufferers for whom it is a serious disability, and other sufferers who
claim it’s their super power. I can see that you would find the latter claim
to be very irritating.

~~~
danaos
> Have you been able to find hacks and/or work arounds?

The only way I have found it working is to outsource my scheduling to someone
else. I believe that explains why many people are diagnosed during college.
College is much less restrictive than school and as a consequence people have
to do their own planning.

------
danaos
Wow! My story resonates with that of the author's. Although I did relatively
well at school I struggled in collage. I skipped classes and my grades were
far lower compared to my school years. In the second year of college I was
finally diagnosed with ADHD. Not that I haven't seen it coming. Some of my
teachers have long suspected it even during school. I knew I was special as I
couldn't stick to the topic I was talking about during conversations, and even
when writing essays! That my sound a bit elitist, but my belief is that the
biggest factor that made me get through this is my self-perceive above-than-
average intelligence. I couldn't let me fail. I managed to get in the second
most prestigious electrical engineering college in the relatively small
country I live. Running a startup is not easy, let alone if you suffer with
ADHD. Me, having plans for the future, was relieved to see other like-minded
people sharing their experience! Thank you.

------
joshmn
For my fellow ADHD people: Dr. Russell Barkley changed my how I think about
every day life with ADHD.

He explains it as not as much of an attention disorder as much as it is a time
management disorder: we're nearsighted to time and all its constraints.

------
swsieber
If by chance you have ADHD symptoms and you haven't been to a sleep clinic,
please visit one. Not getting enough sleep _can be_ a major contributing
cause.

~~~
Nition
I've always found it interesting that the effects I get from not getting
enough sleep seem extremely similar to the effects people describe from ADHD.

When I tried to look up whether ADHD could actually be a sleep disorder, I
only found a lot of the reverse: Articles saying that people with ADHD often
also get a bad sleep. But I certainly wondered whether the causation might be
the other way around.

From what you're saying, sounds like there's evidence that it can be, at least
partially?

~~~
swsieber
Yeah. There's a study referenced in "why we sleep". I'll have to find it.
IIRC, the number given there was that about 50% of ADHD could be traced back
to bad sleep.

I have a friend who knows a dentist. The dentist said that when he sees signs
of sleep issues (apnea, but he might have seem more) in his patient's mouth,
he recommends they get treated. And very often, if the patient had ADHD
symptoms, the symptoms went away after getting the sleep apnea treated.

And lastly, yeah. I Also get a lot of ADHD symtpoms depending on my sleep
quality/quantity.

------
docnyc1
Throughout all of my years of schooling, I was never a strong student, but I
made it to a position in life where I hold a very good career as a Facilities
Director for a large hospitality group in NYC. I've had a few desk based
"Operations" jobs that I struggled to be able to focus on. Being in this
Facilities role is great because it's hands on which keeps me active but it's
also very dynamic and evokes feelings of letting people down if I don't
resolve time sensitive issues, fast. One of the worst feelings is that what I
do is never enough. I always feel like I do a good job but can't seem to shake
the feeling that I will somehow get fired because I am not good enough. Lots
of anxiety. I do a good job at work, get compliments, but I can't go on a two
week vacation w/o wondering if my job is on the line because I'm not there.
How do those with ADHD shake the constant feeling of anxiety and of "not being
good enough"?

I also can relate to the entire ADHD <> entrepreneurship affinity because I
come up with so many "niche", interesting business ideas but I struggle to
exceute. Some of these ideas could make me a lot of money too with minimal
investment.

------
dumbfounder
I was diagnosed ADHD in college when a friend who was recently diagnosed told
me I had it too. I went to a specialist and he said diet was a big factor and
bad dietary habits can greatly exacerbate symptoms or even cause ADHD symptoms
in people that are not really ADHD. I was in college so naturally I didn't
listen to him, and I started taking Dexedrine that he prescribed. It helped a
lot at times, and I took it through college. I still was pretty miserable at
college though.

Right after college I co-founded a startup. I was looking for a way to avoid
joining "the real world" of working people. I stopped taking the meds and was
basically just hyperfocusing all the time. That first year there was only 8
total days I didn't go into the office to work (including weekends and
holidays). I was able to use the hyperfocusing because I didn't have a family
and didn't feel like I needed a life. That company was bought and a few years
later I started another and went through the hyperfocusing stage again. I
didn't even sleep in a regular cycle, I would stay up for 20-24 hours and then
sleep 4-8. I was a mess, but it didn't matter.

Years later I now have a family and those habits won't fly. I have always
remembered the advice my doctor gave me now 24 years ago, but it was only the
past 6-8 years or so that I actually started applying it. It works very well
in my case, but I know my case is not extreme.

I need to avoid carbs during the day. I need to get a good night's sleep. If I
eat a salad at lunch I do not have attention issues. I now do low carb almost
all the time and it has changed my life.

Do I actually have ADHD? Yes, I think so. But it's not an extreme case, and I
find it to be pretty well managed with good diet and sleep habits. Exercise
helps a lot too. Always try this route before drugs. It's not a silver bullet,
but I believe it can help a lot of people that might otherwise look to
medication to solve their ADHD problems in themselves or their children.

------
serf
They went to a psychologist for a diagnosis, after grades started to slip, and
received it. The author also mentions that they dislike ADHD medications.

My curiosities when reading this article :

Did the psychologist actually fix the slipping grades in any meaningful way?
If so, was it through pharmacological methods, or some other technique? If it
was dealt with through prescriptions, and the grades improved at the sake of
anxiety, is that (graduating college with better grades) worth it? If it's
worth it, should that behavior be drug into life as a founder -- presumably
due to some sort of advantage that those pharmaceuticals may provide, and the
anxiety just dealt with somehow else?

These are all honest questions, if anyone cares to share their take on the
situation with me. I've been in similar situations.

------
QuackingJimbo
I disagree with his list of upsides -- there is no upside to ADHD. It is a
disability. I've been able to manage it without using stimulants, through very
careful planning and trial and error (step #1 is avoiding useless wastes of
time such as reading HN). But it just sucks.

~~~
tstrimple
I don't know. I can't write a CRUD app anymore to save my life, but I can dive
into the middle of a foreign code base and quickly understand it and solve
issues that stump the primary developers. I struggle with normal daily
activities like paying bills or putting away laundry, but in an emergency or
high stress situation when others are freaking out I feel comfortable and in
control. I struggle with conventional learning, but can pick up things which
align with my interests (which are wide and diverse) extremely quickly. The
negatives are there, and they can be severe... but I do still see some
upsides. I'm currently unmedicated, but have been on Adderall in the past.
I've been able to manage it mostly by changing jobs when they become stable
and boring or taking on roles where I'm constantly working on new projects for
short amounts of time. I suspect at some point this will stop working and I'll
have to change careers entirely and end up as a chef, or woodworker or
something else completely different than what I do now. Maybe by that time
I'll agree with your position, but I feel like I'm able to use ADHD to my
advantage for the time being.

~~~
eicnix
I feel the same way. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD but can relate to all
the descriptions of it here.

In the past I jokingly said I need the stress and I think it holds true. In
high pressure/thight deadline situations I can work with a high focus for
hours but struggle working on projects which are going smooth.

~~~
Lord_Zero
I think theres a reason so many ADHD people are in tech.

------
Furiens2
It’s interesting to note the OP jumped into starting a company at 23. I’ve
worked as a developer at 3 companies with a Scrum methodology since graduating
university 5 years ago and I’ve struggled in each. I’m constantly told off for
my time management, and I struggle with most meetings (the disruption they
cause, paying attention, and keeping on-topic). If anything it’s worse as I’ve
got more experience as more is expected of me. In some senses the structure
sounds like it should help but it never feels like it. I’m wondering: have
other devs with ADD found Scrum difficult and have they thrived better in a
different work environment?

------
Grieverheart
Psychologists used to be people that listened to other people's problems and
helped them out. Problems started to arise when they started thinking they are
doctors and even started prescribing drugs to 'patients'. If you are given the
label of ADHD or any of the new fancy labels, know that you are not 'sick'.
Life is in your own hands and you can do something about it. The only benefit
I see from this labeling is that it helps you find a community of like minded
people. But still, it's a double-edged sword and many people treat it like a
disease.

------
siliconunit
Anyone in the Montreal area could suggest a name for a good doctor to
potentially diagnose and treat ADHD? This has been going on all my life and I
am extremely fed up with it, I cannot list one single thing I ever finished
'properly' in my life (35+) and this include important academic and work
tasks.. I don't want to 'have' anything , or justify my possible
laziness/ineptitude, but I want to have professional making the call.
Thanks...

------
Vanit
It seems like I'm not the only one here that felt like something clicked when
reading this or felt some anxiety about perceived personal faults.

But you (and I) need to keep a few things in mind.

\- Even if you tick all the boxes it doesn't mean you have ADHD

\- If you're more or less leading a functional life already it doesn't matter
if you have ADHD

\-
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect)

~~~
ynx
> \- Even if you tick all the boxes it doesn't mean you have ADHD

On the other hand, whether or not you have ADHD, if you tick all the boxes,
you might be able to learn helpful coping strategies regardless of your level
of 'functional'.

------
peter_retief
Having ADHD one challenge for me is the todo list. My latest attempt to
prioritize my activities is using email. I created two linux users "todo" and
"done" then when I need to remember to do something I mail todo, when the task
is done I forward the mail to done. Helpful article, hopefully more people
will share their experiences that are often associated with shame and failure

------
ADHDthrowaway1
I have ADHD. I was diagnosed at the age of 33. I had struggled my way through
high school, bachelors and masters degree, with an insanely loose cannon
approach.

At 33 I knew something was wrong with me. But I didn't know what. I always
felt different than other people and I couldn't contain my thoughts and
restlessness leading to mostly complete inattentiveness and a chaotic approach
to life. At worst it felt like having my head filled with fleeting thoughts,
like 3-5 radios next to my ears with music, different positive thoughts and
ideas all at once.

I went to a private practicioner and got diagnosed with ADHD. The ritalin and
later Concerta tablets have improved my life 10X. I have been able to
streamline my career, streamline my life and I can truthfully say that in a
way, it saved me completely. I am now employed in a Fortune500 company, making
a small ton of money (relatively) and can sustain myself very well. I will be
buying my first real estate this fall. But without it, I don't know what I
would have done. Become a homeless, drug-addicted hippie in a third world
country maybe?

There are trade-offs to taking it. (1) Emotional and energy depletion at the
end of the day is one. I don't take it in the weekends, because I don't like
the soul-less me that I become.

I am able to have laser focus and almost have an unfair advantage to others
when I am working on something that requires intense attention to detail or
having to speak on some complex subject.

Moral of the story: If you suspect it, get diagnosed and get medicines to help
focus on the toughest of days at work and in your life. It is certainly a life
changer if you are undiagnosed. Don't let ADHD waste your life away.

Do this self test to consider whether you should see a specialist
(Psychiatrist & MD) to get the diagnosis:
[https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd-
quiz/](https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd-quiz/)

------
samirm
How does one determine the "normal" levels of distraction/laziness from
clinically diagnosable ones? Surely this is a spectrum. How does one determine
the threshold? Is this just stats/distribution based? Does it vary from
population to population? How much of this is nature vs nurture? Are there
physical/neuro-structural/procedural differences in the brain? How do we know
the so called medication isn't just treating the symptoms as opposed to
solving the problem, if not causing more/other problems (kind of like anti-
depressants)? How much do we actually know about all of this?

I don't know any details about ADD/ADHD, but I can relate to a lot of these
symptoms. I never once thought I had ADHD, but it would make sense that
something like this is a spectrum rather than a binary property.

------
CHsurfer
My son has many of your challenges and reading this helps put in perspective
his challenges. I'm not sure what to do about him not 'reaching his
potential'. I want to be understanding, but at the same time, I want to push
him to try. It's tough. Your advice about finding work that you like seems to
be extremely important. He's only 12, so we have some time, but I will discuss
this with him so that he starts to pay attention and learns to identify what
he likes and doesn't. Also your list of skills is great. I will try to get him
to also identify his strengths as he matures and make sure he understands that
everyone has strengths and weaknesses and that it's important to play to his
strengths.

For me, this was a really great article. Thanks for sharing.

------
burtonator
I have ADHD and I've been running my company for over a decade.

I actually created an app to help my workflow specifically around the way my
brain likes to jump between topics:

[https://getpolarized.io/](https://getpolarized.io/)

Part of the challenge I have with reading is that I'll be interested in
something for a few hours and then my brain will be triggered with something
I'm reading and my brain will switch contexts.

Then I'll want to read about some other topic.

With Polar I can jump around easier and take notes directly in the source
material.

It supports incremental reading such that you can mark the portions of a
document you've read and jump right back to them when you open the document a
second time.

It's really a lifesaver for me honestly. I've definitely been able to get a
lot more reading done.

------
picometer
To add another decibel to this crowded chatter: to succeed at something like
this while dealing with ADHD, you need a _lot_ of support, and after that it
is still very hard.

Behind each of these success stories is a lot of people in the background,
giving reminders, dealing with the person who has tuned out for half the
meeting, excusing lapses, etc. I say this as someone with the disorder myself.
(The author’s description of the “time travel” effect is on point!) I take
those people in my life for granted to often. But reading stuff like this and
seeing it from the 3rd person perspective is a good reminder.

Also worth noting that success stories on HN are subject to the survivor bias.
(Not exclusive to the “entrepreneur with adhd” trope, of course, but
definitely applicable.)

------
amitport
I have tons of work to do this morning. So, of course, I'm carefully reading
all of those comments.

------
irjustin
Thanks OP for this article and the rest of HNews for the comments. It has
helped me realize I should at least go see someone.

For me, seeing that infographic of how a person with ADHD tells a story was
revealing. I had too many of those boxes in line.

> I'm horrible at completing simple, repetitive tasks. I'm terrible at time
> management, and conceptualizing time in general.

I loathe doing anything repetitive to the point where I simply won't do it
even when necessary or "spend hours building an overly complex script to help
me copy-paste 10 excel lines".

The threads that have stemmed from this quote has also made me realize there
is a good chance I am ADHD and could only benefit by speaking with someone.

~~~
ramblerman
> I loathe doing anything repetitive

> spend hours building an overly complex script to help me copy-paste 10 excel
> lines

How is this not describing 90% of HN? The 2nd one is even the topic of one of
the most linked jokes on XKCD
([https://xkcd.com/1205/](https://xkcd.com/1205/))

------
rootless
I feel you. Not diagnosed with anything, but totally knowing how you
feel/think through the day. Also running a company, also having the same
issues, yet I think this "condition" is what differentiates you from all the
rest and, if you don't give in, will bring you places "ordered" people will
never see :) Scrap that diagnosis. Your brain works in a different way than
others, use it to your advantage and stop comparing with them. They can't do
what you can.

PS: I "medicate" myself with Weed. This helps me ordering thoughts a lot. Also
it doesn't slow me down - quite the opposite.

------
jamisteven
Other things that work, at least for me: \- Intermittent Fasting \- No
sugar/grain/alcohol/shit food \- Diet high in good fats, protein, greens \-
Meditation and deep breathing exercises \- High intensity cardio at least 3
times a week

Supplements that can help: \- Good multi \- CLO \- Arginine AAKG \- Creatine
\- Alpha GPC \- Vinpocetine \- Ashwahganda \- Bacopa \- Huperzine \- Rhodiola
\- Uridine \- Lyons Mane Mushroom

------
nicodjimenez
A lot of people running companies are dislexic. Churchill ran the UKs fight
against the Germans as an alcoholic.

Lots of room for weirdos to do great things in this world.

------
chrisweekly
I found it tremendously helpful to hear AD(H)D described as a set of _traits_,
which is only a "disorder" to the degree that it interferes with your goals.
There are many ways in which these traits can be advantageous. It's analogous
to being multi-threaded, or async / parallel processing; it makes things more
complicated and harder to debug, but when harnessed properly, becomes a
strength.

------
ccffph
stimulants are pretty much the only thing that will help. I notice a lot of
users commenting how much caffeine, coffee, redbull, monster they consume.
10mg of adderall is much healthier for you than multiple cans of energy
drinks. Take care of your body.

------
crispinb
I thought on initially reading the title he was claiming the company had ADHD,
which seemed like carrying corporate personhood a bit far. Though it could be
briefly diverting to diagnose the disorders of major tech companies.

------
nraynaud
I am still looking for a coping mechanism, because I'm not a people person, so
recruiting a team and having other people focus for me doesn't feel like the
right fit.

------
Leggomyeggolas
Here's how I deal with my ADHD:

1) Amphetamine 2) Minimalism 3) Start with small wins and scale up in tasks 4)
Have a plan in place so you don't waste #1.

------
giardini
"How, With ADHD, I Run a Company"

ftfy

I have yet to find an entire company with ADHD although, given the accretion
of VC firms in the SF area, I hold the possibility open.

------
meathouse
awesome. great stuff. with all the negative stigma around the ADHD umbrella it
was refreshing to read this. in particular the parts showing how little tasks
can seem overwhelming to someone with the condition. i struggle with this
endlessly. it is by far the worst part for me, and often the hardest for
people w/o the condition to understand.

------
cwmacken
Great article. I got diagnosed when I was in third grade and I always felt
that shame as a kid... I still do alot today.

------
squanch
Thank you for posting this + giving all the people commenting here a chance to
express their thoughts about this topic.

------
qwefscb
actually, why think that ADHD is a disease in the first place? the
causal/neurobiological basis for ADHD is unclear, and it is possible that such
behavior is statistically normal given the environment. whenever someone
claims that he has adhd, i strongly suspect medicalization / overdiagnosis

------
Ftuuky
After reading this thread I scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist. Too
many red flags for me to ignore.

------
devinjflick
Thank you for this article! I also have ADD and found everything you said
incredibly comforting and helpful!

------
bryanrasmussen
maybe I should write how I ruined my company and went seriously in debt with
ADHD and thinking that a government website had an obvious bug and I had done
what was required of me when really it was just horribly unusable and I had
not. or maybe not

------
0xCMP
These articles and posts confuse me. Aren't most people dealing with these
problems?

------
ryanmarr
This hits way too close to home.

------
JabavuAdams
Went through a bad spell last year. Got what I thought was the ideal contract:
working from home on (non-game i.e. $$$) VR. Billing more in USD than I had
ever billed in CAD. Working with genuinely nice people.

Couldn't make it work. Would get into loops of crunching all weekend to finish
the work I'd committed to doing in the week. Became a shitty and irritable Dad
due to work stress. Spent _hours_ in loops like "This would be totally doable
if I just started now ... but it hurts too much to stop thinking about what
I'm interested right this minute ... but it's going to hurt later ... let's
analyze all of the ways this is a repeat of my previous fuckups to see if I
can figure my way out of this one ... and down the HOOOOOoooooooole"

Confounding factors: (1) trying to do school at the same time. (2) getting
served with divorce papers when I thought I had come to terms with things. (3)
Sleep apnea treated with CPAP. Impulsivity / exhaustion / obstacles at bedtime
results in not using CPAP which results in greater distraction and higher
impulsivity -> downward spiral for the week.

I learned a very valuable lesson, though.

You CANNOT fight procrastination by analysis. You MUST start the thing. There
is no other solution. Any other choice is procrastination. Mantra: "You need
to stop. What's your next action? What's your next action? ... " This seems
obvious, but in the throes of an analysis / procrastination spiral it seems
like maybe, just maybe you might be able to think your way out of this. NO.

I also started a new medication at the beginning of 2017 - generic Strattera.
It didn't prevent these problems, but it has actually been a great help. There
are side-effects, but I'm willing to accept them. I call it my "anti fuck-it"
medication. It damps down impulsivity without reducing my creativity
(impulsivity is the source of creativity). This is suprisingly multi-faceted.
I am less likely to overeat (less likely to say I don't need more pie but fuck
it!). I can do deeper search in strategy games or planning (less likely to
look a few moves ahead, get befuddled, and say fuck it, I'll just do this
random action). It also feels like I have another register of short-term
memory, although this could be due to sleep, etc.

So ... don't rule out meds, but they're not a silver bullet. Also, the wrong
meds can damage or kill you. I still have some interesting minor mental issues
from Dexedrine a decade and a half ago. On it, I got paranoid and that almost
killed me.

EDIT> One other tip: limit any online discussion to 1 reply. You get one
reply, and that's it. Don't keep responding to a thread. It really doesn't
matter, and is a huuuuuge time sink.

------
jonahrd
Thank you for writing this! It meant a lot to me to read it.

------
seandoe
At what percentage of population does disorder become order?

~~~
atemerev
It doesn’t work this way. E.g. obesity is a major problem in the major
segments of population, and even if 100% of population would be obese, it
would still be a disorder.

------
madrafi
ADHD isn't just overdiagnosed, it's both
[https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-
underdi...](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-
underdiagnosis/)

------
kermitismyhero
I didn't know that Andrew Askins ran Google.

------
povertyworld
Edit: Off-topic, not ADHD related. Carry on.

~~~
garmaine
Coaching does almost zilch to address ADHD needs. There’s some initial
benefits, but it’s the same sort of benefit anyone would get from coaching.
Coaching does not and cannot address anything specific to ADHD symptoms that
manifest themselves in the moment.

~~~
internet_user
Coaching is enormously useful.

It will not fix an organic brain issue, of course, but to understand and have
a feedback loop on your own behavior - is very helpful.

~~~
garmaine
Maybe I didn’t clearly communicate, but I meant no additional benefit specific
to addressing ADHD problems of biological origin.

~~~
internet_user
It does to some extent, because once you have some improvements from
stimulants, newly found ability to concentrate and follow through will allow
you to create new feedback loops/circuits/patterns in your brain that didn't
exist before, very much a biological change.

------
ericksoa
1.) Adderall. 2.) See 1.

------
vectorEQ
"very fast"

------
eggy
Something I learned from my ex-girlfriend many years ago about the labeling of
mental diseases in the DSM, and insurance always stuck with me. In order to
allow doctors to bill for a consultation, or prescribe medicines, they need to
code it. If it is not a cataloged disorder, no insurance, no pharma around the
condition. A good reason to try and get a label for the DSM. I think there are
far too many diagnoses of ADHD in America vs. say Europe, and I am even more
skeptical about the actual category of ADD, ADHD and similar mental disorder
acronyms. We strive to hard to label any behavior different than some
statistical norm as aberrant, and in need of correction. I am not a doctor,
but there are some professionals who also have this opinion [1,2]. I am not
saying ADD, ADHD are not real descriptions of what people seem to identify
with, or experience, but that maybe we are pulling in a lot of others in the
wide net of attempting to normalize our children and society. Personally, I
believe people need to identify with something, or have reasons for feelings
or behaviors they can't seem to find cause for, or label.

I lived and grew up in Brooklyn during the 1970s, and it was interesting to
note that my friends who remained in the city after having children had their
kids on some type of medication (lithium, prozac, amphetamines) compared with
my kids and a few others who left for the countryside, or another country.
It's not urban vs. rural, but more an American thing. After having lived
overseas for 8 years, and some other odd years in other countries, I returned
to the US, and when I turned on a TV for the first time in a long time, all I
saw were big pharma adds for everything from spastic colon to mental
disorders. Fortunately, I killed cable and only watch films, or read, or watch
self-curated internet snippets of videos, news and articles. When I stay in a
hotel, I see the same adds pushing cures, solutions in the guise of attractive
people in bucolic settings. It's no wonder there's a rush to medicate
everything.

I truly feel compassionate for anyone who feels bad, or different enough to
suffer mentally or physically. I know, since I have had my own battles for
sure. I only hope we aren't somatizing the population of kids, and implanting
the idea that something is wrong with otherwise "normal" children.

[1] [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-theater-the-
brai...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-theater-the-
brain/201503/no-there-is-no-such-thing-adhd)

[2] [https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-
adhd/features/adhd-...](https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-
adhd/features/adhd-critics#1)

[3] [https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/02/adhd-
neither-d...](https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/11/02/adhd-neither-
disease-or-disorder)

------
Zach_the_Lizard
As a software engineer with ADHD (and maybe something else in addition to
ADHD), it's almost scary how much of this is relatable.

In a time of crisis, such as a last minute deliverable or an outage, I am
probably the most productive engineer in my company. I churn out code like a
machine, ruthlessly prioritize, scour our graphs and analytics tables for
insight into what's causing the issues, and generally absolutely crush
everything put in front of me. Diving into the analytical side has produced
significant business wins in terms of identifying problems and implementing
solutions that solved complex and hitherto undiscovered business problems to
the tune of tens of millions of dollars.

But as soon as the crisis is over, a switch flips, and I can no longer sustain
productivity. I have a bit of code I'm working on to improve a certain large
download feature. I know all of what I need to write. I know every file by
heart, how everything fits together, all relevant third-party and internal
APIs, and how I would implement this optimally, including some fancy lazy
evaluation and ringbuffer tricks that will make the whole flow more efficient.

But I find it very hard to keep contributing to it. It's just uninteresting
once solved. On top of that, I work in an open-plan office and thus have the
silence punctured by load conversation, video meetings that some folks have at
their desks, and the visual distraction of people walking around.
Unfortunately I have a mini-cafe and a restroom nearby, meaning my eyes have
many people to track.

On top of this, office politics are difficult for me. Before I started taking
medication, I really couldn't pay attention in meetings or interviews. Same
for many conversations. This tends to be interpreted as indifference or
disinterest. I often _want_ to pay attention but just can't. I hate the
protocol where I have to add a bunch of "thank yous" and "pleases" and a bunch
of flowery language around emails and other communication rather than getting
straight to the point. HR is not a fan of direct language.

This leads into the emotional aspects of ADHD. I feel as though emotions can
be stronger for me than for the average person, especially negative emotions
such as anger. Pretty much my entire life, from childhood until now, I've been
told to calm down, think things through a bit more, and not act so rashly.

As a result, despite having a good track record due to some aforementioned
business wins (better than everyone in my org), I tend to alienate leadership
and am considered somewhat "unmanageable." I was put up for staff and rejected
because, sure, you found some cool things, but can you lead a team for 6
months?

Vyvanse has helped. I no longer get up from my desk an infinite number of
times, and my tendency to start a bunch of 20% projects that each need 100% of
my time has drastically reduced. I feel as though maybe 30 is closer to my
mental age.

There is apparently a correlation between ADHD and other issues. I've taken
non-diagnostic tests for some form of high functioning autism and tested
fairly highly. Some of my family members clearly have issues, e.g. my younger
brother runs away and hides during social circumstances sometimes to recharge
and has trouble making eye contact, as does an uncle of mine. Finding the
truth of the autism issue at it applies to me is the next phase of my journey.

All in all, it's an interesting situation to be in. You're smart enough to
recognize that you're broken in various ways and will forever know that,
despite your best efforts, you have significant challenges that will make it
difficult to fulfill your potential. But no one can see these issues.

------
blackflame7000
TLDR, vyvanse (amphetamine) makes you productive.

------
cwaffler
for me its... TLDR: vyvanse

------
justboxing
Very informative article.

The author didn't really delve into whether he uses meds to cope with ADHD.

How do other people who have ADHD cope with it as startup founders? Do meds
like Adderall, Ritalin or Concerta work? What about Nootropics?

Asking cos this situation seems to be very common in our profession i.e.
starting some side project, getting overwhelmed with perfectionism,
distractions and never shipping. Is that ADHD or just plain procrastination?

~~~
Lazare
I noticed the omission too. Even if he's not using any medication, that seems
like something worth mentioning.

Incidentally, I've had really good experiences with modafinil (aka Provigil).
It's not approved for ADHD treatment in the US, but studies suggest it is
effective, and it's widely prescribed off label.

~~~
DarkStar851
Modafinil is awesome for ADHD, but I've found its effects tend to plateau
after a few months. Traiditional, do one thing well stimulants were my magic
bullet. Currently (for the past several years) using Dexedrine.

------
crimsonalucard
Not everyone has the opportunity to be CEO. I value this persons recount of
his experience but does anyone have tips to be successful that are more down
to earth.

For example I heard emergency room doctors are really good careers for those
with ADHD.

------
ADHDthrowaway1
I have ADHD

------
puskavi
Am I the only one who thinks its easier to make things work in chaotic
environment?

