

Love, Internet Style - dmoney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1TZaElTAs

======
sidsavara
This is actually a really great discussion on community support for software
development versus "corporate" support, using a really interesting metaphor of
a japanese shrine.

I enjoyed the video and am voting it up, but I think you should change the
title, because I was expecting some cheesy dating video...

..I know, what does that say about me, that THINKING that, I still clicked
through...

Perhaps add to the end of it - The Longevity of FOSS.

~~~
tremendo
+1. By title alone I would have never cared. Only because it's here in HN did
I click through to these comments and based on yours I decided to actually
watch the video.

It's a 9 min talk by Clay Shirky basically praising the hacker spirit.

~~~
diN0bot
The sense of community and collaboration has been on the ris for years now. I
think it's evident in the open source spirit and the increasing usability and
documentation of open source tools. The django and python Q&A communities I'm
part of also have this "collaboration" tilt.

Still, when I think "hacker" I think solitary, ego-driven programmer, doing
immature things to prove himself. I think of the anger and non-compromise that
comes out of some of the old beards.

If "hacker" has been reappropriated that's great. I don't mean to quibble over
words--regardless of what we call things, I am very optimistic by the growing
team-work and social awareness of internet communities.

~~~
tremendo
Yes, we're asuming different meanings for "hacker", and I was hoping for the
one I take is the more accepted one for this site (Hacker News), those who are
"trying to write interesting software, and for whom computers are just a
medium of expression" (<http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html>)

In any case, point taken as I probably got a bit carried away on my comment
above, the talk referenced is more about the collaborative benefits new
technologies bring to us.

------
jimbokun
What a wonderful sermon.

In today's society, when we want to criticize some kind of discourse we often
say it is "preachy," implying like a sermon, which is understood to be the
lowest form of human communication or something.

I never understood that mindset. As Clay Shirky demonstrates here, the sermon
can be the most uplifting and inspiring and motivating form of communication
we have. Turning off the brain is not inherent in the form at all, quite the
opposite.

As another example, Barack Obama's oratory is undeniably influenced and
inspired by sermons. Particularly, the African American sermon, perhaps the
highest form of this art. The obvious example being Martin Luther King, Jr., a
good candidate for greatest speaker of the 20th century.

And if you don't think Clay Shirky's talk here is sermon like, may I suggest
you just haven't heard many sermons, or at least not many good ones.

~~~
jmtulloss
I like how your first line is a response and the rest is a preemptive defense
of the response.

I do agree with you though.

------
rcoder
The most salient point, to my mind, was this line: "they didn't care that they
saw it work in practice, since they already knew it couldn't work in theory."

That, and "Perl is a Shinto shrine." Larry Wall himself could hardly spin a
better catchphrase.

~~~
mleonhard
Is Perl like the shrine in that it doesn't change or improve? I think
programming language technology has improved but Perl has yet to catch up.
Nowadays one can be much more productive in other languages.

~~~
mst
Really? I think you need to look at

<http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?MooseX::Declare>

\- perl5 the core language is flexible enough that you can extend the language
up towards the problem from perl-space pretty well. It's one of the things I
learned to love in lisp.

------
kwamenum86
These types of post are the reason I spend hours on HN. It is variable
reinforcement really- the really great posts come at pseudo random intervals
(make n a random number and assume you hit a great post after n clicks, then
reset n). And then you become addicted.

I just hit n. I can finally go to sleep.

~~~
dmoney
Glad I could help.

------
ntoshev
Clay Shirky is a very insightful thinker about the technology impact on
society, and his presentations are top notch too.

If you want the essence of the insights he has to offer, see his TED talk:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPQViNNOAkw>

------
kylec
I love you guys

~~~
wheels
Kyle, you're not getting my Bud Light.

------
Herring
I find it slightly humorous that he's assuming 'edifice' and 'process' are
different and yet he's working with computers. He even mentions longevity a
few times.

------
kqr2
Ise Shrine which Clay Shirky mentions:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise_Shrine>

It is rebuilt every 20 years and is on iteration 61.

~~~
dood
See also the Ship of Theseus paradox
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus>

~~~
Herring
... It takes a philosopher to create paradoxes out of well understood physical
processes.

~~~
Retric
Philosopher's assume words have meaning this is the root of all their
failings.

------
peregrine
I should send this to people at work, probably call me gay. :)

~~~
lsb
Colin Powell: Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he's a
Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what
if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The
answer's no, that's not America.

Same with being gay.

~~~
mynameishere
Enough! Grow a fucking spine already!

Islam is religious absolutism. Under an Islamic regime, you're a Muslim or
you're a dhimmi or you're a slave. If you self-identify as a Muslim then you
are incompatible with every significant ideal of America.

~~~
pg
Please stop.

------
r00k
Don't let the crappy title fool you--this is worth watching.

------
Alex3917
It's interesting to contrast the comments in this thread to the comments on
Bruce Schneier's review of the book:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=376380>

------
wynand
I was really inspired after the video and decided to go help out in some IRC
channels and mailing lists.

And then I was reminded why I stopped doing that a long time ago: there is so
much snarkiness. None of these lists or IRC channels ever seem to take a
stance against this behaviour and it seems to me as if there are often self-
selecting groups of snarky "locals" who drive a list or IRC channel.

On the contrary, I do think that HN is fairly close to what he was describing
and is the main reason why I've stopped frequenting other similar sites, but
remained here.

~~~
mmmurf
I agree. I can never really get into IRC as there are always three
condescending comments to every helpful one and it's like a high school clique
with password protected rooms and inside jokes.

I also agree about HN, it seems to have managed to avoid a lot of that.

------
gur
No one contributes to the community for the money, yet most of you guys are
constantly talking about getting rich -- or at least profitable. Paradox?

~~~
jmtulloss
Nope. You need to be profitable to continue doing what you love. There's no
paradox if your motivation to make money is to continue being able to
contribute for free.

------
l_frequency
Gotta love Shirky. I've spent countless hours listening to his talks on
youtube. Dunno what it is about the way he delivers it.

------
pistoriusp
This is off-topic, but does anyone else think Clay Shirky looks like Tom Hanks
in this video?

~~~
pistoriusp
I'm not the only person who thinks so:

    
    
      "Clay Shirky looked like Tom Hanks but I didn't ask him about his latest movie role (I hope)."

([http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2003/11/usercreated_co...](http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2003/11/usercreated_con.html#c321997))

    
    
      "If Shirky ever has a movie made of his life, it’ll have to 
      be Tom Hanks that stars. I think he sounds and looks a lot like Shirky!"

([http://blogs.technet.com/johmar/archive/2008/09/18/web-2-0-e...](http://blogs.technet.com/johmar/archive/2008/09/18/web-2-0-expo-
day-3-rss-feeds-for-your-refrigerator-and-why-tim-o-reilly-wants-you-to-stop-
throwing-sheep.aspx))

    
    
      "Imagine hair on him and Shirky looks, talks and acts exactly like Tom Hanks. Not just similar, but eerily exact."

(<http://www.chrisroberson.net/2008/04/cognitive-surplus.html>)

    
    
      "One thing I’ve definitely gotta say about this guy though is that he sounds 
      and looks a lot like Tom Hanks. Not that there’s anything wrong with that."

(<http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=5885#comment-229940>)

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juliend2
awesome talk. I love him.

