
Documenting the Web together - marvinpinto
https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2017/10/18/documenting-web-together-mdn-web-docs
======
jasonkester
I really miss the old MSDN Library. The 5GB installable one you'd get as one
of the 200 DVDs in that giant case they'd ship you with your MSDN subscription
back in the day.

It was awesome. You could hit F1 and it would instantly pop up good, detailed,
documentation for whatever method or keyword was under your cursor. In any of
their developer products, so it worked as well in SQL Server Management Studio
as in VS.NET. Every language, every technology, updated monthly via Automatic
Updates on your dev box.

But they stopped shipping it in favor of "web help". That's the thing where
you hit F1 and it spends several seconds opening a web browser (a custom one
in a new tab in the IDE for some reason), then several more seconds opening a
"meet the mouse" style page telling you how to use the code editor window
(which it had helpfully detected was your context when asking for help).

So in one stroke, they switched from the worlds most awesome help system at
your fingertips to "just go open Chrome and type your search into Google,
since that will at least get you something relevant".

Today, they've improved that workflow by trying to ensure that something
relevant exists on MDN, provided you're searching for web-related stuff.

We're still about 10 years back from the state-of-the-art in 2003.

Shame.

~~~
ConfucianNardin
VS2017 opens the correct documentation most of the time, and in the default
web browser.

For C++, cppreference provides archives of all their docs:
[http://en.cppreference.com/w/Cppreference:Archives](http://en.cppreference.com/w/Cppreference:Archives).

Of course, that won't help you for Win32 or .NET.

There's also [https://zealdocs.org/](https://zealdocs.org/)

~~~
lorenzhs
There's also
[https://github.com/jeaye/stdman](https://github.com/jeaye/stdman) which
provides the pages from cppreference as manpages, and
[https://github.com/aitjcize/cppman](https://github.com/aitjcize/cppman)
(which I haven't used, but seems to look a bit nicer)

------
fyrstenberg
Don't forget you can use [https://devdocs.io/](https://devdocs.io/) too which
also searches MDN and store offline. The two are a great pair.

~~~
oevi
There is also mdn.io which can be used as shortcut in every browser like this
(for a search for 'await'): [http://mdn.io/await](http://mdn.io/await)

~~~
fyrstenberg
It seems neat on the surface but it also seem to involve _two_ redirects,
first one to google.com (which is not obvious and personally not something I
would like), and then to MDN. It would be cool if it linked directly to the
page on MDN or showed the content directly within the page.

And the second time I clicked I was met with this message, not mdn.io's fault
but nonetheless (i.e. "google police" \- not sure what they mean with "unusual
activity", there is hardly any at the moment - maybe not enough? :) or maybe I
just got a busy vpn exit point):
[https://imgur.com/itn48dZ](https://imgur.com/itn48dZ)

~~~
myfonj
Yup, that site seems to be basically redirector to Google redirector [1].

You can get the very same effect like DuckDuckGo keyword search but with "just
the last redirect" with vanilla browser bookmark [2] with `%s` interpolation:

    
    
        https://www.google.com/search?btnI&q=%s%20site%3Adeveloper.mozilla.org
    

[1] [https://github.com/lazd/mdn.io](https://github.com/lazd/mdn.io) [2]
[https://www-archive.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/keywords.html](https://www-
archive.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/keywords.html) \- old page about feature in
Firefox (currently the same works in Google Chrome as well). Amusing that the
this `btnI` search is in the second example there.

------
ChuckMcM
Guess they are going to band together to dethrone W3Schools :-) (only half
kidding, that web site has has some serious staying power.)

Related, when I was active in standards work (I learned just how badly that
stuff was run) I discovered that new people in a standards group that was
being formed would be lobbying to be the group Chairperson or Vice Chair. But
the people who had been in standards bodies before were all vying to be the
Editor. That was because the group could argue all they wanted but at the end
of the day what was in the standard was what was in the _document_ and only
one person had absolute sway over that, the Editor.

So when I see all these leading lights, who just got through a rancorous
debate about DRM with the standards body, endorse a new way to capture the
"actual" standard, I see a seasoned standards wonk offering to do all the
slavish work of editing the documents so that everyone else can focus on the
hard work of coming up with the best possible standard.

~~~
frik
W3School is very good to quickly look something up - short and always with a
simple example.

MDN is very good for details and in general as reference.

~~~
bfred_it
Short and always with a terrible example. I would never trust W3Schools with
the simplest stuff. Take this form documentation, they don't even mention
using <label>

[https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp](https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp)

Sadly, "html forms" brings up 3+ W3Schools pages of at the top.

~~~
darth_mastah
+1

W3schools is contributing to poor education amongst junior web developers.

------
edent
We were speaking about this at the W3C's Advisory Board meeting in London
earlier this week.

It distresses me that the specs on w3.org are so hard to read for the average
developer. It's great to see how MDN focuses on simplicity, readability, and
usable examples.

~~~
vbezhenar
Specs are not meant to be read by average developer. Average developer should
read books. Specs are meant to clarify moot points between different
implementations. Spec is like legal document, they are hard to read, but they
serve their purpose.

~~~
acdha
I think that’s a very narrow view and it’s far from universally true. While a
lot of W3C specs are impenetrable there are many counter examples at the IETF
which might not be introductory level but are certainly easier for a developer
familiar with the topic to follow.

I think this is actually fairly important for two reasons. The first is simply
that unreadable specs are just as bug prone as unreadable code, but the second
is that this increases the distance between the web as specced and the [much
much much] larger developer community, and things like <img srcset> /
<picture> show the benefit of having less of a communications chasm between
those groups.

That doesn’t mean that specs can’t be precise but simply that good technical
writing can accommodate a wide audience.

~~~
ygra
I think it also largely depends on what the spec describes. XML for example is
rather abstract and can be hard to follow, but SVG is quite easy to read and
in my opinion much better than any 3rd-party explanation (primarily because
it's complete and error-free).

------
482794793792894
Mozilla Blog post: [https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-
micr...](https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/mozilla-brings-microsoft-
google-w3c-samsung-together-create-cross-browser-documentation-mdn/)

~~~
nycdotnet
Interesting that there is no Apple representation.

~~~
dmitriid
Apple never hosted web-related docs, so they probably don’t care.

~~~
jsmthrowaway
Sorry, that is not true. Apple documents all of its platforms quite
thoroughly, and Safari is one of them. Theirs is simply not an analogue to
MDN.

[https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Ap...](https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariCSSRef/Introduction.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40002050)

“Apple doesn’t attempt to document general-purpose Web technologies without an
eye on its own platforms” might be a more accurate statement, but even that is
shaky because they spent a lot of time explaining HTML5 media while killing
Flash.

~~~
dmitriid
Ah. Missed that. Yup. It would be nice to see Apple's support behind MDN as
well.

------
tomaskafka
So, can maybe Google finally push the w3schools out of their SERP? :)

------
mark242
This is a great start. Now let's integrate caniuse into every single MDN page.

~~~
ubernostrum
MDN already has compatibility tables for lots of things; if they're missing
from a particular article, it's not because they're unsupported, it's because
nobody has done the research and filled in the information (it's a wiki! You
can add things!).

~~~
styfle
MDN didn't do a good job of advertising itself as a wiki. It wasn't until
recently that you could login with a GitHub account.

When you google "can i use flexbox", caniuse.com comes up but MDN does not.

The other thing missing from MDN, is that caniuse.com shows browser support as
a percentage. Now I know I'm safe to use flexbox since its supported by 97.74%
of browsers in the wild.

When a new feature comes out, I add it to both MDN and caniuse. It would be
great if these two could be integrated as well.

~~~
codedokode
I don't like that caniuse by default shows only several recent browser
versions, deceiving developers and making it look like some new technology is
supported everywhere. It is clearly a "dark" UI pattern that motivates
developers to make sites viewable only on latest Macbook.

Instead, it should show the year since which some feature is supported.

For example, for flexbox it could write:

IE - never

Edge - since 2015

Firefox - since Mar 2014

Safari - since Oct 2013

Opera - since Nov 2012

etc.

This gives a better picture.

~~~
styfle
I actually like how it currently works because it doesn’t matter if Chrome 32
didn’t support feature X because no one is using it. The boxes are sized by
their current usage and aligned based on the stable version.

It’s a perfect chart to show your boss when someone complains about Firefox 4
not working. Clearly that person missed a few updates :)

That being said, I would like a year on each column for the occurrences when
time/year is relevant. Currently I just Show All.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
Déjà vu. Previously ( _checks email_ …almost exactly 5 years ago?! Christ, it
was a long time ago), the web powers that be announced they were going to
collaborate on a new web docs wiki.[0] I don't think it went anywhere because,
well, MDN already existed.

I'm glad they finally just surrendered to MDN, even if it was many years late.

[0]
[https://www.w3.org/2012/10/webplatform.html.en](https://www.w3.org/2012/10/webplatform.html.en)

~~~
frik
"One of our guiding principles in developing Microsoft Edge is that end users
should never have to worry about which sites work in which browsers. This
philosophy—”the Web should just work for everyone“—led to our choice to target
the “interoperable intersection” of web APIs in our browser engineering."

Many sites already don't work correctly in Edge, IE11 nor Firefox - it's too
late, these are minor browsers, used by a smaller fraction of end users. End
users on on smartphones use 95% a WebKit originated based browser aka
Chrome/Safari. Chrome and Safari are bigger than the rest on desktop.

Sites in 2017 are tested against Chrome and Safari by web developers.

[http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/desktop/world...](http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/desktop/worldwide)

[http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/mobile/worldw...](http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
share/mobile/worldwide)

~~~
epse
Minor is very relative here, especially with regards to Firefox. IMO anyone
who only tests against Chrome and Safari is seriously wrong. The amount of
features not supported by Firefox or Edge are relatively small and so
basically everything except for a few special cases should just work
everywhere.

------
opendomain
A few years ago most of these companies got together to do the same thing and
launch the WebPlatform for the same thing. If you watch the video, you can see
some guy named Tim Berners-Lee with a title "Web Developer" say it was the
place to learn.

I wonder why they are relaunching instead of using Webplatform.Org ?

~~~
the8472
Can't beat them, join them. Developers simply go to MDN and MDN often is on
top of the search results anyway. It often gets linked from stackoverflow too.

------
stareatgoats
Totally OT, but "Today, we’re excited to " is as an opening statement, through
its ubiquity and seeming robotic mindlessness, is starting to distract from
the actual topics. Maybe just me. Still. Just sayin.

~~~
eradicatethots
What else can you even write instead though

~~~
wakamoleguy
In this case, there could be literally nothing instead.

> (Today, we’re excited to share some big news for developers around the world
> wide web: )We’re committing our resources towards making MDN Web Docs the
> best place to go for web API reference.

~~~
eradicatethots
There needs to be an intro or it sounds very weird.

~~~
brlewis
Agreed. Keep the word "Today".

------
bprasanna
Microsoft you are doing all the right thing to win the hearts of developers!
Great! Thanks for all wise decisions

------
forapurpose
This news sounds great to me, but I feel like I don't understand what's
happening behind the curtain and don't grasp the second-order consequences.
What would motivate them? I wonder what the political motives are (industry
politics, not the other kind that we won't mention here).

Could this eventually displace standards bodies such as WHATWG and W3C? If the
Product Advisory Board of Mozilla, Google, and Samsung agree on a standard and
publish it at MDN, will that become as official, at least de facto, as a
standard published by W3C? I do see W3C is mentioned as a participant.

Also, for the sake of argument (and IMHO, of realism) let's assume that
Google, who can virtually set web standards themselves these days, isn't doing
this for a purely altruistic motive of supporting the open web. Why would they
give up the 'soft power' of writing their own documentation for their own
standards?

~~~
Top19
In general I like that Google and others are doing this. The web is so
complicated, so overwhelming, that a central source of documentation is
needed. This "blog posts as documentation" culture is not healthy.

However I think we should all be skeptical of any actions corporations take
today until proven otherwise. When 60,000 Americans are dying of opiods per
year (that's all the deaths in Vietnam per year) and drug companies will
reject calls to regulate them and pay off members of Congress, some constant
skepticism is called for (who could of believed they would do that??)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/dea-
drug-industry-congress/)

~~~
wutbrodo
> (who could of believed they would do that??)

I didn't even realize I was being cynical when I was unsurprised by this news.
I don't really understand why everyone else is. (That isn't to say it isn't
important news, but the shock that everyone seems to be in is confusing).

------
btilly
My favorite line was this:

 _One of our guiding principles in developing Microsoft Edge is that end users
should never have to worry about which sites work in which browsers. This
philosophy—”the Web should just work for everyone“—led to our choice to target
the “interoperable intersection” of web APIs in our browser engineering._

It wasn't favorite because I agree with it. It was favorite for the humor
value of Microsoft accepting a principle that flies so strongly in the face of
how the company established itself, managed its battles with competitors, and
tried to sabotage existing web standards for most of my professional life.

I'm glad they are finally claiming to be on board. I'll trust them as far as I
can throw them. (Guess how far I can throw 120k people...)

~~~
r3bl
People change, and so do its companies (or at least, their management).

Looking from a non-Windows-user perspective, in the last couple of years:
VSCode is now a thing, .NET is open sourced, they've started financially
supporting organization that I like (like OSI and the Linux foundation),
Powershell is now available on my platform, and, if I ever decide to switch
back to Microsoft's technologies (highly unlikely), I have Windows Subsystem
for Linux and I'll be able to run Linux servers on Azure.

As a non-Windows user, I'm totally happy with this new Microsoft.

------
madmax108
MDN is an AMAZING resource, and I'm glad that it's getting the attention it
deserves (both from Mozilla and the rest of the internet). Really hope this
effort lasts over time as the effort put into MDN by volunteers, besides
Mozilla employees, is tremendous!

Hope MDN becomes the go-to Wiki for the web (It practically is for me already)

Kudos to the team! :)

------
binaryanomaly
Awesome! Great to see that Mozilla gets the approval, respect and support from
such big players.

Looks like there is hope for a free and open Web! Well done Mozilla!

------
shmerl
_> One of our guiding principles in developing Microsoft Edge is that end
users should never have to worry about which sites work in which browsers.
This philosophy—”the Web should just work for everyone“—led to our choice to
target the “interoperable intersection” of web APIs in our browser
engineering._

That's a good move by MS. In this context it's great to see them supporting
open codecs, and for istance OGG container for audio which was recently
announced as work in progress in Edge. Quite a turnaround from the old times
of "best viewed with IE", ActiveX, Silverlight and etc.

Why can't MS apply same principle across all their teams? Compare the above to
their push for 3D graphics API lock-in.

~~~
roblabla
Because video-games is still the one place where Mac and Linux are lagging
behind, and they have DirectX to thank a lot for that.

~~~
skocznymroczny
In case of Linux, you forgot availability of drivers, cohesive user
experience, stability and ergonomy rather than programmer designed interfaces.

~~~
roblabla
I guess I should have said "Mac or Linux", but I'll answer your points because
they tick me off.

First some context : I'm both a Windows, Mac and Linux user, and my favorite
is probably Mac. But I've converted a fair share of my family to Linux (my
grandma too) because it's more predictable than Windows, and cheaper than
MacOS (I'm basically my family's IT hotline). Most of what I'll talk here is a
mix of my own experience, and feedback from my family members.

Let's talk about drivers. Turns out, drivers are available for most of the
hardware you'll need (which is basically GPU, WiFi, Bluetooth and Webcam).
Sure, this weird piece of equipment might not have linux drivers, but in truth
I can't even remember the last time I've hit that problem. I don't think
equipment compatibility is the reason people use Windows in 2017 anyway, given
we're all using Android/Linux on our smartphones and tablets, so I'll move on.

Let's talk about cohesive UX. Windows, since 8 and 10, has the least cohesive
UX ever. Running Gnome or KDE on Linux today will get you a more cohesive UX
than win10, and that's no compliment. Half the Windows apps still use the old
winforms look, half use the new metro (or whatever it is called) look, and
then there's all the webapps that have their own custom look and feel. Cortana
is a clusterfuck of an UX, the File Manager has this weird "It's a filesystem
but not really" mentality (the location bar doesn't show the full hierarchy,
WHY ?), and there are so many papercuts here and there that I end up
_fighting_ my OS half the time.

Let's talk about stability. Windows forces reboots every few days because it
has "mandatory updates". Windows basically built this feature where they
_force_ the computer to _reboot_ and the user has _absolutely no say_ in the
matter. This is not the stability guarantee I'm looking for. Another anecdata
: one of the few family members to still have a windows has a Microsoft
Surface Pro. She has to reboot it every few days because it won't detect the
Wifi card anymore. Microsoft can't even make their own OS stable on their own
hardware.

Windows might have been good at all of this at one point, but that's not the
case anymore. It's become terrible at all of it. So bad that Linux slowly
creeped its way into my family, and that made my life much easier.

~~~
NiveaGeForce
Windows is better and more efficient than it ever was, thanks to many
improvements since Windows 8.

[https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/74xc2z/windows_an...](https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/74xc2z/windows_and_efficiency/)

Most default Windows apps are UWP with Fluent Design now, and more are
migrating towards that since they have major advantages that you won't find on
Mac and most Linux distros

[https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/75lgti/announcing...](https://np.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/75lgti/announcing_uwp_support_for_net_standard_20/do7ifkr/)

Also, your other points mostly contain misinformation.

~~~
roblabla
I never claimed windows hasn't been getting better in other departments. And
I'll agree that a default Windows install is probably more battery efficient
than a default Linux install. But that wasn't the point.

To respond to your point specifically, I said the UX in windows 8/10 is
terrible. I hope it gets better, but right now, strictly speaking, win7 was
the last time windows had a _cohesive_ UX.

And please tell where the misinformation is. Mandatory updates were a thing[0]
(seems they fixed that, good). The wifi card problem on surface pros is
documented[1]. The explorer _does_ break the hierarchy analogy consistently,
you can see by yourself that the location bar doesn't show the full hierarchy
when you access "Libraries" (whatever those are).

When you claim misinformation, please say what is. It might allow me, or you,
or someone else in this thread, to learn something !

[0]: [https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-windows-10-forced-
update...](https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-windows-10-forced-updates-auto-
restarts-are-the-worst/)

[1]: [https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-acknowledges-
surfac...](https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-acknowledges-surface-
pro-3-disappearing-wi-fi-and-slow-connection-complaints)

------
kbumsik
The is great indeed. I hope w3schools.com won't appear in Google search
result. BTW, It feels like OP omitted to mention to MS in the title though.

~~~
Zpalmtree
I barely webdev, but when I do, I've found w3schools pretty helpful. What's
wrong with it?

~~~
hobarrera
Historically, w3schools had a lot of outdated (or outright wrong content):

[http://www.w3fools.com/](http://www.w3fools.com/)

------
subsidd
This is great news. I learnt JavaScript from MDN first and it was a great
resource. Still use it almost everyday as a reference, would love to see it
grow.

------
vinaypai
I can only hope MDN does to w3schools what Stack Overflow did to experts-
exchange.

------
t347
What would be the best way to download MDN for offline use? A quick search
shows:
[https://developer.mozilla.org/media/developer.mozilla.org.ta...](https://developer.mozilla.org/media/developer.mozilla.org.tar.gz)
[https://kapeli.com/mdn_offline](https://kapeli.com/mdn_offline)
[https://zealdocs.org/](https://zealdocs.org/) Any experience with the above?

~~~
ealhad
Definitely [https://devdocs.io](https://devdocs.io)

------
robocat
Hopefully that will push the ranking up for MDN articles.

------
raymondgh
I wonder how much influence over MDN content these new contributors will have.
On the one hand, it looks like a victory for Mozilla and developers
everywhere; on the other hand, it looks like this will amplify Google's voice
on the direction of web standards and help grow Chrome's market share at the
cost of Firefox's.

------
shashwat986
I'm so happy to see this! MDN has always been my go-to resource for any JS/CSS
help

------
Skywing
Already was the place to go.

------
amq
Somehow I had more luck with stackoverflow and others when looking for a quick
hint/example.

~~~
JTenerife
Yes, for hints like "how do I", but for JS ref like "methods on a Set" I use
it all the time. Problem with SO is that often the anwsers are quite old
(<=ES5).

------
trzeci
Why Samsung?

~~~
482794793792894
Probably a case of having engulfed the industry so much that just throwing
money into the industry will actually pay out for them in the long run.

And it's probably also just nice to be able to bite Google and Microsoft in
the butt here. Those do benefit from a healthy web and both very much need the
PR of supporting webstandards, but they could also both benefit a lot more
from controlling a platform like MDN and then sneaking in pseudo standards
here and there. So, Samsung helping out with MDN makes it even harder for one
of those to build up their own version.

Lastly, Samsung does ship their Samsung Internet Browser on all of their
Galaxy devices, which has got to be a somewhat significant share of daily
internet users. Currently, that's Chromium-based, but they could be looking to
eventually follow Google and Microsoft in making up webstandards.

They've also already invested into Mozilla's Servo, so maybe they're also just
trying to build up a partnership with Mozilla to help to take on those giants.

~~~
styfle
From what I've heard, Samsung Internet Browser is trying to lead the way with
WebVR (Virtual Reality).

[https://webvr.rocks/samsung_internet](https://webvr.rocks/samsung_internet)

------
romanovcode
Together, except for Apple that does not care.

------
vermooten
Are they still pushing Edge?

------
mlinksva
> redirecting

Cool!

------
matthberg
This is great news, but the title misses out on the fact that Microsoft (the
blog poster, nonetheless) is part of the "others" joining. Revising for
clarity would be good.

~~~
michaeljchou
Yeah. And the link is actually to a blog post from Microsoft stating they
started redirecting MSDN pages to corresponding MDN ones.

------
tareqak
Given that the blog is on windows.com and it mentions MSDN, I think the title
should include Microsoft as well. I was actually confused/befuddled seeing the
juxtaposition of Google and Mozilla in the title, and windows.com as the
domain in brackets to the right of the title.

~~~
dang
We've reverted the title to the article's original which, since it is neither
misleading nor baity, is what the guidelines call for
([https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)).

The submitted title was "Mozilla, Google, others team up to make MDN Docs the
place to go for web API ref" which is actually an uptick in misleadingness, as
you and others pointed out. Submitters: please don't do that.

------
andy_ppp
Great, while they are at it can Google please downgrade the extremely spammy
w3schools or at least allow me to remove certain websites from my searches.
There are so many better resources out there...

~~~
vinhboy
I've never understood the hate for w3schools. I've always found them to be
extremely useful. I like that usage examples is the focus of their site. I
find that more useful than wordy documentations that more advanced references
provide.

~~~
TAForObvReasons
[http://www.w3fools.com/](http://www.w3fools.com/) top of the page summarizes
the situation:

> When W3Fools was launched in 2011, the state of documentation for developers
> was poor. This site documented many content errors and issues with the
> W3Schools website. The Mozilla Developer Network was around but it did not
> have much support at the time.

> Today, W3Schools has largely resolved these issues and addressed the
> majority of the undersigned developers' concerns. For many beginners,
> W3Schools has structured tutorials and playgrounds that offer a decent
> learning experience. Do keep in mind: a more complete education will
> certainly include MDN and other reputable resources.

MDN would greatly benefit from more soft documentation and a playground setup
similar to W3Schools

~~~
52-6F-62
I'm still waiting for the true spiritual revival of HTML Goodies
[https://web.archive.org/web/19980130110903/http://htmlgoodie...](https://web.archive.org/web/19980130110903/http://htmlgoodies.com:80/)

Or not. MDN usually suits me fine.

Actually, I find TutorialsPoint
[https://www.tutorialspoint.com/](https://www.tutorialspoint.com/) generally
pretty good, if not lacking in some depth. They give a decent soft intro,
though.

------
rainbowmverse
For the people who have and will comment on how bad w3schools is, Google
provides a Chrome extension for blocking domains in search results.

[https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/new-chrome-
extension...](https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/new-chrome-extension-
block-sites-from.html)

I don't know if there's a Firefox version.

~~~
josefresco
Can Google see your own personal list of blocked sites?

Post seems to indicate just that: "One of the signals we're exploring is
explicit feedback from users."

~~~
rainbowmverse
They started with it built into search. This was probably a compromise
solution to some competing internal concerns.

------
Egidius
For me, as an experienced front-end-focussed developer, MDN has been my go-to
website for quick spec references. MDN has all I need to know, and I know my
way around. However, I've been in teams where the less-experienced developers
went to W3C Schools to see how they should implement some feature. And to be
honest, I cannot completely blame them. W3C Schools shows directly what you
need to know and how the API you are discovering works. This is mainly because
of the playground with possible implementations on top of every specification
page. I hope MDN can make their site more appealing for less experience
developers without cutting in on the feature-completeness.

For those interested: Behold, the W3C Schools hider extension.
[https://github.com/Spetnik/W3Schools-
Hider](https://github.com/Spetnik/W3Schools-Hider)

~~~
marksomnian
Your comment excellently demonstrates the problem with them: W3Schools is not
related to the W3C in any way. Many beginners see the "W3" and think it's an
official resource. This is bad.

~~~
Egidius
I never implied that W3C Schools is related to W3C. But I do agree with you:
that's bad. But for me that's a public secret. I don't think that's the main
reason why I dislike W3C schools, though. My problem with W3C Schools is that
they are not the right away to learn web development in a proper way:
[https://www.impressivewebs.com/w3schools-ugly-bad-
good/](https://www.impressivewebs.com/w3schools-ugly-bad-good/). MDN holds a
far greater standard on a whole lot of aspects: following exact W3C specs,
being up to date, design, just to name a few obvious ones.

~~~
rodorgas
Parent thought you believe W3Schools is related to W3C because you keep
calling it "W3C Schools" (it's W3Schools).

~~~
Egidius
aha... right :D

------
waivek
Is there an extension to hide all the w3schools related comments in this
thread?

~~~
dang
We've marked the existing ones off-topic. That makes them rank lower on the
page.

------
nblavoie
Good Bye w3schools.com ?

~~~
rand_r
w3schools.com is a great resource.

I prefer it when I need a quick refresher on an HTML element because it's
especially good for having short, simple examples I can copy and paste.

MDN tends to be verbose and technical. It's good when you need to know
everything in detail, but often I need a quick refresher and a simple example
and for that w3schools.com always seems to have better content.

Compare these two pages for input types:

[https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_form_input_types.asp](https://www.w3schools.com/html/html_form_input_types.asp)

[https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/in...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/input)

The MDN page is more complete, but reading it gives me a headache.

~~~
samBergeron
The whole point of documentation though is for it to be complete, technical
and well explained. Not to have copy-pastable examples.

W3schools is neither good documentation or good examples though.

~~~
briandear
When I need to change a car's oil, I don't need a complete, detailed overview
of the entire lubrication system. There is a place for all kinds of
documentation, but exhaustive explanation is often less preferable to a quick
"how do I do this."

------
mmaunder
Embrace...

~~~
xapata
This time around, it looks like that's where the phrase ends. Until the next
CEO perhaps.

------
vxNsr
mdn.com is of course a 90s directory site for Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan.
last updated by the looks of it in early 2016... maybe they'll relinquish the
vanity domain?

~~~
thanatropism
What makes it a vanity domain?

Just imagine how much printed material has circulated since the 90s with the
mdn.com address. Why do you want to break the web?

~~~
vivekkrish
For JS developers, there is already a short-hand URL, mdn.io.

It's quite neat in its functionality, allowing for searches via url params,
like so: mdn.io/promise

~~~
vxNsr
thanks for that. didn't realize that mdn.io existed.

