
Steve Jobs left designer Jony Ive more power than anyone at Apple - ashishgandhi
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/21/steve_jobs_left_designer_jony_ive_more_power_than_anyone_at_apple.html
======
zach
By comparison, John Lasseter has more power than anyone at Pixar. I think the
situation could be similar.

Now, sure, he has to commit to budgets and timeframes but if he _really_ wants
something you have to figure it's going to happen.

And of course, he's not the top manager, the CEO equivalent in charge of the
studio itself — Ed Catmull is. And yes, everything creative gets picked apart
by other directors so it's not like he's the only voice.

But you'd have to say John Lasseter has more power than anyone at Pixar,
assuming you wanted to look at things that way.

You could also say he's the creative heart of Pixar.

It's sure nice that those two things match up.

Edit: I explored this subject in my Quora answer on Pixar, Valve and Blizzard
for those interested.

[http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-commonalities-in-how-
Pixa...](http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-commonalities-in-how-Pixar-Valve-
and-Blizzard-are-run-as-organizations/answer/Zach-Baker)

~~~
AllenKids
Yeah, sometimes we get the toilet seat cover iBook and Cars 2, but by and
large having a creative guru under nobody else's thumb seems to work well for
both companies.

~~~
gallamine
Actually, John Lasseter defends Cars 2:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/movies/john-lasseter-of-
pi...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/movies/john-lasseter-of-pixar-
defends-cars-2.html)

Apparently the "critics" were far harsher than audiences.

~~~
AllenKids
Of course, Cars 2 is the low point in Pixar's streak but overall still able to
capture an audience not to mention tons of toys sold. I understand Lasseter's
point and given his fixation over the concept I'll just accept the fact it is
a big deal to him personally just as I accept Jobs' enthusiasm about getting
Beatles in the iTMS.

~~~
zach
I think that's a very apt comparison. It's hard to overestimate how deeply
personal _Cars_ and _Cars 2_ are to John, but it's also hard to overstate how
tricky they were to pull off.

Sure, you can criticize _Cars 2_ for having a story that didn't hit the
bullseye. Totally fair, by Pixar's own "story, story, story" standards. But
don't think the Pixar Brain Trust didn't do so first (as mentioned in the
article, things had indeed gone wrong) or that they didn't do heroic acts to
make things work. Ultimately it's an artistic process within a movie studio
and you sometimes have to put things into production and trust that you can
work out the problems. Pixar will bend everything out of shape to delay that
point but it still happens. It's the fact that Pixar had done so well rescuing
movies from a burning story that makes the rest of us forget that sometimes.

Still, where _Cars_ and _Cars 2_ started from and how well the stories they
had were executed — I think those things are hard to criticize. These movies
are love letters to the automotive culture that came of age as John did, and
they are both put on the screen with a huge amount of artistry, character,
cleverness and humor.

~~~
thret
The Cars storyline was offensive to begin with. People who compete
professionally in ANYTHING demand the best performance from their peers.
Anything less is disrespectful. Having someone throw a race out of
sentimentality, and making that seem somehow honorable is despicable. And then
they make the winner of the race out to be some kind of arsehole because he
gave it his best? It doesn't make any sense.

The plot is the same as Lucky You and it physically made me sick.

------
technoslut
Interestingly enough, there is a quote from the Jobs book, from Ive, that was
tweeted by Bianca Bosker, who works at the Huffington Post:

<https://twitter.com/bbosker/status/127357233632788480>

"Jony Ive:'I pay maniacal attention to where an idea comes from...so it hurts
when [Jobs] takes credit for one of my designs'"

As much as Jobs considered Ive a 'spiritual partner' there was still a power
play that existed between the two.

~~~
siglesias
Jobs has never taken credit for a design, has he? People who are uninformed
just assume it's Jobs, and that perhaps is what Ive is referring to. He
probably meant "it hurts when [Jobs] _gets_ credit..."

If you look at the Objectified interview, along with nearly every promotional
video that Apple puts out, it's very clear that Ive is the design guy.

~~~
ugh
Could be an internal thing. I really can’t remember Jobs ever publicly and
personally taking credit for design. But maybe he did inside the company?

I guess we will have to wait for the book for more context.

~~~
gnaffle
That might be. I did read something on folklore.org about Steve Jobs often
being told an idea, dismissing it as stupid, and, several weeks later, often
coming back with the same idea thinking it was his own.

------
tomelders
It staggers me that time and time again Apple lays out the reasons for it's
unrivalled success for all to see, yet non of it's rivals seem interested in
copying their methods and opt for simply copying their products.

Fortune favours the brave.

~~~
chrislomax
I personally think it's impossible to replicate what Apple have done. It's not
just one thing that has caused a change but a series of changes starting when
they introduced the iMac.

Apple is more of a "love mark" than a technology company. Back in 95,
Microsoft was a love mark, people loved it when a new version of windows came
out, now people dread it.

People started looking for an alternative and Apple was there, all different
and shiny. It wasn't 1 year that turned them around, its the result of 12 hard
years.

Microsoft released a tablet back in 2000, did anyone care? Apple does it and
millions rush to buy it, they have created a following, this is not easily
replicated. They innovate, amaze and move onto the next thing. There is
nothing simple about this process.

~~~
nobody31415
You could take everything you just said and apply it to Sony in 1980. Then
their founder, Akio Morita, retired with poor health and they diversified into
lots of sensible business decisions about owning studios

Then some little computer company in California moved in on their territory
and began making beautiful, simple, well made upmarket products.

~~~
chrislomax
Might I just add, I am not your typical fan boy for Apple. Quite the opposite
actually. I am a Microsoft geek at heart, learnt basic when I was 13 and loved
them since. They can do minimal wrong in my eyes (except for windows ME).

I appreciate Apple in a completely different way, I think how they have
created their following in nothing short of amazing. The spot a market
potential and they make it work, really well.

The iPod worked really well but it was really the iPhone that did it for them,
they brought Apple to the absolute masses. I am still not 100% sure if the
iTunes store was a fluke, I don't think it was on the first iPhone. If it was
planned in it's entirety then hats off to Steve.

Look at the market share now, Microsoft should be scared. I don't think
Microsoft has ramped up it's game much either, Ballmer is a bit of a joke so
I'm going to find it hard to take him seriously but I think I will always be
Microsoft at heart.

~~~
toyg
The iTunes Store came with the original iPod, and it was an integral part of
Apple's strategy.

You probably meant the _App_ Store, which wasn't on the very first iPhone and
was, in fact, a bit of a lucky strike. Jobs didn't want anyone installing
anything on the phone (classic Apple control-freakery at its finest), so he
insisted for months after launch that extensibility would come exclusively
from sandboxed web-applications. Eventually they did release a SDK and
establish a process to publish apps, but only after encountering overwhelming
demand.

~~~
philwelch
No, the iTunes store came in 2003, two years after the iPod.

------
blumentopf
To those familiar with car history, there's a striking similarity between the
Jobs/Ive duo and the Daimler/Maybach duo:

Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhelm Maybach lead the automobile industry in the late
1800s and early 1900s just as Jobs and Ive lead the computing industry in the
late 1900s and early 2000s. Maybach was the engineering genius who pioneered
countless innovations in engine design, while Daimler had the intuition to get
the right products to market and do the industrial power play.

------
MarkMc
Well, not THAT much power:

'Ive wants to spend more time in the UK where he wants his sons to go to
school, the Times claims, but the Apple board has refused to support his
relocation. The story quotes a family friend as saying that "they have told
him in no uncertain terms that if he headed back to England he would not be
able to sustain his position with them".'

From:
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2011/feb/28/apple-j...](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2011/feb/28/apple-
jonathan-ive)

Sounds to me like HP-level stupidity from the Apple board.

~~~
AllenKids
Is not that just a story with no reliable source whatsoever?

And the true tabloid Daily Mail actually interviewed some of Ive's friends and
they all said never heard of such a desire from Jony Ive himself.

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1367481/Appl...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1367481/Apples-
Jonathan-Ive-How-did-British-polytechnic-graduate-design-genius.html)

~~~
maxmcd
I guess we'll all find out on Monday.

------
raheemm
Guess I'm buying this book. It'll be my first time to buy a book during first
release. Good marketing by the publishers. This is sort of like Freemium
model, no?

~~~
Fjolle
I'm afraid that i will know everything from the book by monday if this press
coverage continues.

~~~
ugh
Turn all the sentences into separate news articles!

------
jinushaun
But yet, you never see him up on stage... There's a cult of personality around
Ive on the Internet—everyone wants him to replace Jobs as CEO, but is that
even realistic? Sure, he can design, but can he _run_ a company?

~~~
fdb
Have you heard about the Peter Principle?

From Wikipedia: "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of
incompetence", meaning that employees tend to be promoted until they reach a
position at which they cannot work competently.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle>

Knowing what somebody is _not_ good at is almost as essential as knowing what
people _are_ good at. I guess both Ive and Apple know this.

~~~
pak
If you believe in the Peter Principle, you might be interested in the Gervais
Principle (<http://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/>) which uses
characters from _The Office_ to wax philosophical about organizational
structure. At the very least, the first part is worth a read. It diverges from
the Peter Principle in a number of thought-provoking ways.

~~~
r00fus
Highly entertaining (and insightful), thanks.

------
sgt
This fact alone left me feeling quite a lot better. Now I know Apple is in
good hands at least for the time being. Tim Cook is also brilliant at what he
does, and I am sure he trusts Ive as much as Jobs did.

------
Kliment
Those are some damn nice CNC mills in the background of that photo. Wonder how
much use they get.

~~~
krobertson
If he is a designer who understands the manufacturing process, then that is
awesome in my book.

My father owns/runs a CNC manufacturing business. Sometimes the
designers/drafters (more the case they have a background in CAD) don't
understand the subtleties of manufacturing and materials. I mean, they aren't
big gaps or anything.

Best comparison is maybe coder vs tester. Both technical, but look at the same
thing from two different perspectives.

~~~
nobody31415
It cuts both ways. There are designers who build things that can't be made -
and especially things that can't be mass produced cheaply and easily.

But there are also people with 20years of manufacturing experience who don't
what that we can do more things cheaply and easily with 5-axis CNC mills and
hot-wire cutters than you can with a casting.

~~~
krobertson
Sure it cuts both ways. I was just reacting to the picture of a CNC behind
him.

If that is his design studio, it is awesome he has real equipment for making
the stuff he designs rather than some art deco chairs from some snooty
designer.

~~~
nobody31415
If you have a CNC mill or a 3D printer in the office you can certainly turn
around prototype designs quickly!

------
moizsyed
Right now Ive has the best of both worlds, he has more power than anyone at
Apple, and hes not the CEO. The CEO role comes with an extra layer of public
scrutiny.

Knowing that Jony Ive has more power than anyone at Apple gives me a certain
amount of relief about Apple being on the same trajectory for the next
foreseeable future.

------
brown9-2
Of course, any new CEO/board can undo what previous CEOs and boards have set
in stone.

~~~
artursapek
I think they all have too much respect for Steve to change anything like this
for a while.

~~~
0x12
The hard part will be when reality rubs up against things set in stone. The
big trick will be to determine exactly when change is needed versus when some
people just want to change things to make their mark.

------
psawaya
I think it's interesting that Jony Ive came to Apple before Steve returned.
Jobs didn't have to recruit him, and he fit perfectly into what Apple became.

~~~
sirn
'I often joke that my tombstone will say, "The Guy Who Hired Jonathan Ive",'

\- Robert Brunner, Apple's former Chief of Industrial Design

------
alexwolfe
In some ways because Ive was the head designer he had more power than anyone
else regardless of Steve's extra effort. His work would impact every level of
the company so immediately regardless of peoples personal opinion.

------
michaelfeathers
Who did they leave in charge of making sure people listen to him?

~~~
afdssfda
Tim Cook has been in charge for ages.

------
gaius
Where did the abbreviation "Jony" come from? It's Jonny.

~~~
verisimilitude
Straight out of a keynote: [http://technology.automated.it/wp-
content/uploads/HLIC/b08b7...](http://technology.automated.it/wp-
content/uploads/HLIC/b08b727c9a90a9380c9942576a18ec4e.jpg)

~~~
gaius
I suspect then this is like Colin Powell being known as Coal-in... He's stated
himself his mother calls him Colin!

------
swah
I suppose Ive is Taste, now that Jobs is gone.

------
TechnoFou
It's interesting how the soul of Steve Jobs stays in Apple to control the
company even after passing out. A company that functions through the power of
will, creativity and beliefs.... it's different from all the corporate VP's
and Executives we all see so organized at other companies!

------
aik
I wonder how Jobs' death affected Ive? I would think Ive must be hugely
grateful for what Jobs saw in him.

------
anactofgod
Interesting. And a Bloomberg Businessweek article has Scott Forstall as Jobs'
heir-apparent at Apple.

[http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/scott-forstall-the-
sorc...](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/scott-forstall-the-sorcerers-
apprentice-at-apple-10122011.html)

------
markerdmann
This brings to mind a blog post published by Darryl Jonckheere in January that
argued for making Jony Ive CEO:

[http://www.darryljonckheere.com/2011/01/24/why-jonathan-
ive-...](http://www.darryljonckheere.com/2011/01/24/why-jonathan-ive-should-
be-apples-next-ceo/)

------
Bratwurst
Jony Ive is just the Shigeru Miyamoto of Apple.

~~~
driftsumi-e
ha, that's a great parallel to draw. miyamoto is behind many of the most
iconic videogame characters AND game designs ever seen. so, in fairness to
miyamoto, he's got a little steve in him as well.

------
Apocryphon
Jony Ive? Yet another man behind the man.

------
maranas
I'm not surprised - Ive deserves it. The designs he came up with were the
driving factor in Apple's success.

------
tormentor
I think he gives Ive more power because of his experience with Paul Rand and
the Nextstep logo.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb8idEf-Iak>

In short Paul Rand tells Steve I will make you one design and I will solve
your problem. Since then I believe he has given designers (Jon Ive in this
case) their space to design whatever they want. Trust in the designer.

------
nknight
Great, but... Ive only does industrial design, as far as I know.

The other side of the coin is the software, and if that declines, Ive's going
to be creating very well-designed paperweights. So who does Apple's software
design?

~~~
george_morgan
I’ve also wondered this. iOS and Mac OS both have a penchant for faux-realism
and pastiche which always seems strangely incongruous with the austere
industrial design. It’s a trend that seems to be getting stronger, just look
to the most recent version of iCal for example.

Apple’s current industrial design patterns seem to have a solid foundation in
quite traditional modernist values, such as ‘truth to materials’, so for
instance you would never see Apple ship a product with a plastic case coated
to look like brushed aluminium. They would always use real aluminium.

It seems the software design team isn’t grounded in quite the same set of
principles as the industrial design team.

I do wonder if the ID guys would rather see their designs running an interface
such as WP7 (or even Plan 9, xMonad etc.), which isn’t as tied to real world
metaphors and in a sense show more ‘truth to software’ (or to put it another
way, there is certainly no ’true’ interface for digital information, but if
there were one… I can’t imagine faux leather would be it.)

~~~
derefr
> to put it another way, there is certainly no ’true’ interface for digital
> information, but if there were one… I can’t imagine faux leather would be
> it.

I've wanted to make this argument in favour of _sometimes using_ skeuomorphic
(e.g. faux leather) design for a while:

All the other applications that come with Mac OS (say, iTunes, Mail.app, or
iPhoto) have clearly-defined, strongly-typed content "atoms"—respectively,
songs, messages, and pictures. The apps themselves just serve as magical
databases with filters and specifiers to find and manipulate that content.
They don't have to look like anything, because they're just "the box you put
your music in" or "the box your get your mail from."

iCal and Address Book are the two main applications in the default set that
break this pattern: they don't hold a clearly-defined type of content at all.
It's just raw information: information about events, and about people,
respectively. Because of this, you _could_ get away with simply using text
files for the same purpose, and nothing of value would be lost. It would even
be as easy to sort and search, if you have a good text editor.

So Apple needs to offer a value proposition that makes a user want to use
Address Book rather than a text file: familiarity in function and ease of
learning curve. In a more design-oriented view, in cases where the data itself
is arbitrary (you could technically store anything in a vCard), the software
must bring over the rules and constrictions of the physical medium to give the
proper context for the controls in the UI to actually afford their proper use.

A set of overlapping boxes means nothing; a set of overlapping boxes on a
screen that looks like a calendar suggests what you should use the boxes for.
A set of blank index cards seems to suggest no use whatsoever, until you bind
them into a familiar rolodex-like facade.

You can see the same thing play out with the iOS apps that Apple has given
design awards: the kind that hold strongly-typed information tend to get the
UI out of the user's way, and let the information stand paramount; while the
kind that hold raw data retain a strong skeuomorphic metaphor to suggest use
over-and-above "put text here."

------
tobylane
I'd fear giving Ive too much power/ego/etc, he needs to be grounded to do what
he does. At the other end of the scale, it has been said he wants to be in UK
more (duh :P), don't know what has changed there.

------
DodgyEggplant
There was one Steve Jobs. If only two people can replace him, it's a little
miracle. A master manager, and a master designer. They can continue w/o the
ego fights. Like Bill Hewlet and the other guy (JOKING! Please spare my
carma). They will do it, we all need them to do it.

