
Sony launches universal remote control with e-ink screen - curtis
http://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/tech-news/sony-huis-remote-control-e-ink-11364040192256
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mike-cardwell
I use my phone as a remote control occasionally. It's terrible, because there
are no physical buttons, so you have to keep looking at the phone screen
instead of the thing you're controlling. There's an interface that lets you
use swipe gestures as well, and that's still far inferior to a simple remote
with physical buttons.

~~~
stevetrewick
Totally agree that an ergonomically well designed remote with a small number
of functions will provide a superior 'eyes off' UX. But it has sadly been
quite some time since that description applied to any of the remotes I
regularly actually use.

~~~
IgorPartola
You know, I think the Roku remote comes close:
[https://image.roku.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2014/11/Roku-...](https://image.roku.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2014/11/Roku-3-remote-with-headphones.jpg)

Unfortunately, their remotes are inconsistent between Roku devices. For
example, some come with this layout: [http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/41WCaJRUARL._AC_UL320_...](http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/41WCaJRUARL._AC_UL320_SR180,320_.jpg). Why the hell is it
a good UX to include these proprietary buttons on there? I have an older
version of it that includes Block Buster!

They also have a phone app that I use frequently. It's not bad, but lacks the
* button, making it impossible to turn off subtitles.

Lastly, their remotes really need a way to control the TV power and volume. I
_hate_ having two remotes, one of which is just to turn the TV on/off. I
believe the new Apple TV does have this feature, but of course it doesn't have
Amazon Video so that's a no-go for me.

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hackmiester
"It vibrates and makes sound when you use it, so if feels similar to a
conventional remote."

I had to laugh at this. What kind of remote have these people been using?

~~~
tudorw
I think maybe they mean what used to be a physical button click sound and
feel, some feedback is important :)

~~~
lfowles
It can be incredibly convincing too, for example using the steam controller
with headphones. I've had it for months and only just realized what I thought
was a physical detent in the trigger was actually adjustable haptic feedback.

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josu
Yes, this is an expensive product with a niche market, but you are missing the
fact that:

"The Huis is part of Sony’s new business creation program, First Flight
[1][2], a crowdfunding program for new products designed by Sony employees."

Google Translate is not working very well for the page, but it seems that the
product has been crowdfunded, and therefore pre-sold. This is not a regular
Sony product, and it may never make it out of Japan.

If you can forget about its price, this is a beautiful product, seems
functional and I wouldn't hesitate to give it a try it to replace all of my
remote controls (2) if it was given to me for free.

[1][https://first-flight.sony.com/](https://first-flight.sony.com/)

[2] [http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/1/8874943/sony-
crowdfunding-p...](http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/1/8874943/sony-crowdfunding-
platform-first-flight-launch)

~~~
Ezhik
It's nice that they have stuff like this going on, I miss 'Weird Sony'.

~~~
sirkneeland
I was wondering if I would be the only one to use the phrase "weird Sony"
(first I ever heard it was from the Verge, describing...well, weird Sony)

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7952
I can see lots of benefits in using e-ink for this kind of ambient interface.
But the price point is just appalling and consumers should just reject this
out of hand. You could get a Nexus 7 for that price. Why is e-ink still so
expensive?

~~~
VLM
Welcome to the world of high end remotes. I have a pair of fifteen year old
MX500 that cost about that new. The current MX850 model lists at $400 MSRP but
you can buy online for around $275, that's about one tier more expensive and
fancy.

Full customization is expensive no matter the display technology. A lot of
work goes into the software.

(edited to add, if you look at an ancient MX500 or a modern MX850, you can
also see tactile vs display is a long solved problem ... just put rows of
buttons along a column of displayed names. This has been solved so long, that
any patents have probably run out by now. Basically hand held aircraft MFD.)

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computerwizard
Please come out with reasonably priced e-ink monitors soon. It would really
save our eyes and allow us to work outside. I swear there's a conspiracy
against them. The only one I've been able to find is this and its almost
$1000. [http://www.dasung.com.cn/](http://www.dasung.com.cn/)

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rogerbinns
I wonder if they'll do state management like the Logitech Harmony series does.
For example if I tell it to switch to PS3, it will ensure the TV is on, set to
the correct input, and that the receiver is on, also on its correct input. The
remote knows what it already did, so it only takes the minimal actions to
reach the desired state. Similarly I can press the off button and it turns off
everything it turned on.

~~~
adinb
This is probably my biggest problem with the Harmony remotes—since there's no
feedback, the state management gets out of sync. Which usually means drilling
into the menus to get it back into sync or getting into the troubleshooting
wizard and answering a bunch of yes/no questions.

After 3 different Harmony remotes this is really what killed it for me.

~~~
ascagnel_
In an ideal world, this is where HDMI-CEC would come in. A device can
broadcast requests up and down the chain based on remote inputs, so it can
request different links be turned on (TV and/or AVR, for instance), handle
switching inputs, and handle other elements like menu navigation and volume.

Sadly, the spec sucks and most OEMs don't ship fully-compatible equipment (for
example, the PS3 reliably will not turn off my TV, but will turn off my AVR).

~~~
rogerbinns
The Harmony approach is only a problem if you use other remotes at the same
time. Even then it works out fine if the devices have "absolute" codes - eg
separate codes for power on and power off, separate codes for each input (vs a
"next input"). Many do have the codes, even if the remote control doesn't
apparently show them.

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Zigurd
In a world where everyone can have a personalized remote in their smartphone,
smart remotes are a tough product to justify making. A Bluetooth IR blaster
and app should win on capability and usability and be much much cheaper.

~~~
forgetsusername
> _A Bluetooth IR blaster and app should win on capability and usability_

Without physical buttons, phone-based remotes won't win on usability.

~~~
Zigurd
Physical buttons are one dimension of usability that hasn't been decisive in
any other product domain where smart mobile devices have replaced dedicated
buttons in UI. On the other hand, smart mobile devices add multi-device sync,
personalization, persistent configuration and preferences, memory of where you
left off, etc. Music players, snapshot cameras, GPSs, etc. all had dedicated
physical user interfaces. None were important enough to save those product
categories.

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neals
I use my phone as a remote, but I'll always miss the feel of physical buttons
on a tv-remote. I like to adjust volume, channel, browse etc. etc. without
having to take my eyes of the screen.

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carsongross
I went out and got a ray:

[https://www.ray.co/](https://www.ray.co/)

It is pretty, but they use swiping for moving around/changing channels on Roku
and it's infuriating. It becomes a workout to do even the most basic of
things.

In my experience, swiping is nearly universally horrible UX.

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crusso
I had a Sony touch screen LCD remote, maybe 15 years ago. I used it for a
couple of months and eventually broke out the original remotes - just so I
could have actual buttons to push. Looking down at the screen all the time to
find the buttons was a hassle.

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supergeek133
I keep wondering why TV control is still mostly IR based. How have we not
graduated to Z-Wave/ZigBee style control yet? Especially on the high end with
all the hubs around the house.

~~~
rtkwe
An IR LED is super cheap compared to even the cheapest radio chips. Also you
need to have some sort of bonding between the remote and TV or you risk
messing up customers with multiple copies of one device in range and that's an
extra annoying step.

~~~
supergeek133
I understand, but were talking dollars on to an already likely expensive TV.
Especially with the market that these remotes live in. Also, all those
Z-wave/zigbee type devices are unique ID correct? Shouldn't be an issue with
multiple copies.

I'm just thinking we could be so much better at controlling our TVs from a
'connected home' perspective.

~~~
rtkwe
It's also dollars with every replacement remote too and means basically every
existing fancy remote would need to be replaced. Also if you tie TV to remote
what happens when someone inevitably loses their remote?

There's definitely a lot that could be done to integrate TVs etc with
connected home but moving everything to radio controlled has it's own small
heartaches.

~~~
supergeek133
Technology changes over, you can't use the fear of replacing old remotes as
the reason not to do it. If that was the case we'd all still be using CRT
monitors and VGA only.

Choice is just as good as stability. There is also no reason you can't do
both.

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sbochins
This would be a breakthrough device if nobody invented the smartphone. If I
want a universal remote, why don't I just use the device I have to carry
around with me all the time?

~~~
chrisdhal
So your friends/family/whoever can use it if you're not there? So somebody
else can use it while you are?

I have remote apps on my phone, but never use them. I'd much rather use my
Logitech one (or even the one the device(s) came with if needed).

~~~
o_____________o
So sync to a server that stores your remote layout based on your wifi
name/some other criteria?

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petra
£169 for a remote control ? it doesn't seem to be aligned with the functional
value. But maybe they're just trying to sell it to wealthy people, as another
status symbol.

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glossyscr
Slightly OT: Would love to have a notebook or computer screen with e-ink just
for Vim, the console and coding, assumed it's fast enough. Is there anything
like this?

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jobigoud
Maybe one of the large e-reader. For example there is an Onyx Boox not
released yet that is supposed to be 13.3" 1600x1200 and running Android. Maybe
it can be repurposed. I doubt refresh rate is going to cut it though.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
> I doubt refresh rate is going to cut it though

You could probably make it quite usable by running xterm in Tektronix
emulation mode. Old school vector displays and new e-ink screens behave
somewhat similarly, in that you can add content to the screen without actually
refreshing.

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jgalt212
I'm keen to get rid of my overprice logitech remote, but at first blush I'm
not sure this will do the tree. You need at least some physical buttons.

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spdegabrielle
Apart from your aircon - how many people have more than 2-3 IR remotes (TV,
PVR & DVD)

TV is dead. IR remotes are awful - but good enough.

~~~
spdegabrielle
And no-one looks at the remote when changing channels.

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mhb
No one changes channels any more.

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intopieces
The top pay-TV providers account for 94.0 million subscribers [0]. Unless
they're all turning on their sets and settling for whatever happens to come
up, many people are changing channels.

[0][http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/press/111615release.html](http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/press/111615release.html)

~~~
btgeekboy
I think what the parent comment is saying is that channel surfing is no longer
common. For me, it basically died out when we switched from ~100 analog cable
channels to a zillion coming in over a STB that takes forever to change from
channel 10 to 11, and then to 12...

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type0
This looks like a very slow gadget, thanks to e-ink screen.

~~~
ergothus
Well, as a remote I'd expect you'd not have to CHANGE the screen often, which
is where eink excels. I don't sub-sub-sub-menus on my remote. I want
everything directly available, and presumably some sort of mode switch to
toggle between my different devices. If you combine details from one devices
(TV power on, volume Up/down) with another device (roku controls) on a single
control screen, then I would only rarely have to switch modes at all.

I've been waiting to see eink used in more places - I recall reading that
India had non-smart cell phone handsets that used it for the screen, which
seemed a great purpose (display time/date, incoming call number, outgoing call
number, none of which require rapid changes in display), but not hearing that
it had really gotten anywhere else.

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neves
e-ink? So you can't see the buttons in a dark room?

Hope they did some usability tests in this.

~~~
josu
The kindle has a built in light, similar to the one on the old Casio watches.
E-ink is highly usable in the dark.

