
Mailable Live Animals - aaronbrethorst
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm
======
mobilefriendly
The USPS has been handling poultry for probably as long as it has existed. (I
received live birds in the mail just last week!) There is a special vented and
reinforced mailer that is used. Newly hatched birds have nutritional energy
reserves and don't need food or drink for a couple days. The biggest issue is
temperature, even in summer. Hatchlings usually have a mother to warm them to
95 degrees. So most shipments have 15 or more birds so they can keep each
other warm. Some farms even throw in an extra "warmer" bird on a order. I've
received many shipments and never had a dead bird.

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ianlevesque
Too funny. “Via air transportation. Only queen honey bees may be shipped via
air transportation. Each queen honeybee shipped via air transportation may be
accompanied by up to eight attendant honeybees.”

Seems appropriate for the queen.

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Etheryte
Perhaps it's because my family has always been beekeepers, but I don't get the
joke? It's just standard procedure to ensure the queen can adapt properly.

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Bartweiss
One part that stands out is that "only queens" can be mailed, but attendants
are allowed. As I read that, if I for some reason wanted to mail 8 non-queen
bees, it would somehow only be legal if I added a queen.

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neuronexmachina
Other than biological research, I honestly can't think of any reason somebody
would want to mail bees without a queen.

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yebyen
Any legitimate reason maybe...

There's an Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode that covers this question, if
you've seen it maybe you will remember the big "H" on the box is for "Hornets"
so we all know it's a box full of hornets...

I mean, you could try mailing someone a box of hornets with a big "H" on it
and tell them it's a present and the H stands for "Happy Housewarming," but
you were talking about _legitimate_ reasons to mail bees, right?

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IndrekR
My father is a beekeeper. Once we were transporting honeybees. Queen honeybees
are often delivered with mail for breeding and other purposed. Well they got
stuck in the customs for few days without any reasonable explanation at first.
Then got an invoice for unpaid alcohol tax ... turned out that someone had
written "Caution! Live Beer" instead of "Live Bees" at some point, almost
killing the queens.

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danek
I am trying to imagaine what the customs agent thinks "live beer" is, since
apparently it is something you can import as long as you pay the tax.

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AlgorithmicTime
Beer with live yeast still suspended in it, rather than filtered out.

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danek
Fair enough (I don't know much about beer)

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nailer
'Real ale' has live yeast, since it hasn't been pasteurized. It doesn't last
on the shelf as long, but it's alive. You can also pirate it if you like the
taste.

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slazaro
Damn these new drinks with their DRM, that you need to buy each time you want
to consume them...

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AlgorithmicTime
You can harvest the yeast from live beer and grow the yeast for use in your
own beers.

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slaymaker1907
We should start the free beer foundation!

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nailer
The Free Beer Foundation is about 'Free as in freedom', not free as in 'free
b...' wait...damnit.

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omarforgotpwd
For those who don't know, it's common (and essential) to ship honeybees around
the country to where they're needed. Honeybees are shipped around different
parts of the country all the time depending on the season and what kind of
agriculture needs to be produced. There was a Planet Money episode on it I
think... yup, here it is:
[http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/02/24/517076055/episo...](http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/02/24/517076055/episode-756-the-
bees-go-to-california)

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xyzzyz
These aren't usually mailed via USPS. USPS is frequently used to mail nucs,
that is, hive starters.

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omarforgotpwd
Yes, but I thought it was worth mentioning for people who might not be able to
imagine why anyone would seriously want to mail bees in the first place.

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dfc
The commenter is saying that is not why you would mail bees and therefore not
worth mentioning. They then give a useful example of what is mailed for the
benefit of those who couldn't imagine why you would mail bees.

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1024core
I remember one late night I was at a large USPS center for work, and there
were a bunch of packages sitting nearby. I was talking to the USPS official
about the work that needed to be done, and suddenly... one of the packages
moved! I nearly jumped out of my skin and told him that the package moved! He
was very calm, and said "yep, those are geese". And then proceeded to tell me
all the different types of animals (and bees) they routinely ship.

~~~
danek
Imagine receiving a box of live scorpions by accident.

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detritus
Honestly, I'd more fear opening a box of pissed-off geese.

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djrogers
A box full of scorpion sized geese would be kinda cute, however a goose sized
scorpion would pretty much be the worst of all scenarios.

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SAI_Peregrinus
Naw, a goose sized-scorpion would probably collapse under its own weight.
Exoskeletons just don't work for large animals. Respiration would also fail,
as would the open circulatory system they have. The square-cube law is quite
unforgiving of arbitrarily scaling animals.

~~~
danek
I'm thankful that physics prevents many nightmare scenarios like goose-sized
scorpions

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GLenH
My wife (who teaches at a university, not to be named here) once had flesh-
eating beetles FedEx'ed to her lab in order to clean skeletons for student
use. Unfortunately the box had a hole punched in it sometime during transport,
and the FedEx guy literally ran into her office, threw the box, with beetles
coming out of it, on her desk and ran back out.

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pavel_lishin
I feel like the FedEx guy actually went above and beyond here.

~~~
gertef
or and created a hugely unsafe situation by not destroying the corrupted
mailer.

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cbonsig
Timely. Today is the last day it is permissible to mail not-more-than-24-hour-
old pheasants, until April 1 2018.

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btilly
It turns out that you're allowed to mail ants, but not ant queens. That is
because it is generally illegal to ship ant queens across state lines. (Ants
are very good at becoming invasive species.)

This is why if you buy an ant farm for your kids, the ants you get will always
die out. :-(

(My son loooves ants.)

~~~
pavel_lishin
Surely there are companies out there that use local ants, and only ship
locally? (Something something organic free-range...)

~~~
btilly
You can't ship the queens. You have to meet in person.

Your best bet is [http://www.antscanada.com/queen-ants-for-
sale/](http://www.antscanada.com/queen-ants-for-sale/)

------
nl
Related:

 _A Brief History of Children Sent Through the Mail_

 _In the early days of the parcel post, some parents took advantage of the
mail in unexpected ways_

[http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/brief-history-
child...](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/brief-history-children-
sent-through-mail-180959372/)

~~~
Ophelias_Rue
Thank you for that story, always fascinating to read about the genesis of
institutions and their early days.

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dsfyu404ed
Wearing a beekeepers suit and driving a car with boxes of beehives in the back
seat makes traffic law about as applicable to you as it is to cops. Don't ask
me how I know.

~~~
tryingagainbro
Aren't they sealed with a window (wire mesh) providing just enough air to
breath?

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tjr
Old, but I still find it amusing:
[http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/po...](http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/postal-6-4.html)

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underbluewaters
There's a queen bee farm (right term?) in my neighborhood. One time I walked
into the post office and as soon as I open the door I hear a roar of
buzzzzz... There was at least a full pallet of flat-rate boxes of bees.

~~~
Wingman4l7
Yes, beekeepers will routinely replace their queens with fresh ones, although
queens can last several years. The "farm" in your neighborhood was probably
someone breeding queens for sale, which are shipped in a small box with a few
worker bees. It could also have been someone selling "nucs" (nucleus colonies)
-- basically, starter hives -- although these packages would have been
substantially larger.

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nickzafo
I ship roaches on a regular basis through USPS. Good thing they accept them
because UPS and Fedex label them as "pest" insects. They're just
misunderstood. I label the box as "Live Insects" as a precaution which leads
to me having to explain why I'm shipping them. Always gets some smiles and
funny comments at the post office!

~~~
jmagaro88
Just curious. What do you ship roaches for?

~~~
wang_li
[https://www.xkcd.com/325/](https://www.xkcd.com/325/)

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marricks
All kind of horrifying... lizards specifically can die if it gets cold enough.

I have a couple bearded dragons thinking of someone just shipping them, taking
it to chance they don't get too cold and get sick, scared and alone is just a
sad sad sad thought.

~~~
thatBilly
I have bought and sold hundreds of invertebrates around the world, all
transported by standard mail services.

I've sent probably 40 parcels successfully and received around 80 in the past
15 years. We avoid sending them in winter, if it's not the height of summer
(depending on species) we enclose heat packs. They are always extremely well
insulated, ventilated and padded. Poor packaging and mailing is heavily
criticised in the pet invertebrates hobby, people are ostracised if they
continue to endanger livestock or potentially cause injury to mail workers.

I had one parcel containing dozens of centipedes from China damaged, with
centipedes escaping.

I had a parcel from Germany containing tarantulas sat at the post office for
days because the postman on foot thought the parcel was too big and the one
with the van disagreed. Tarantulas died.

I have some limited experience of mailing reptiles in the UK from around 15-20
years ago but it's heavily frowned upon, probably illegal and reputable
dealers will only use pet couriers. I could imagine a small snake could be
mailed safely but I'm also horrified at the thought of mailing a bearded
dragon or chameleon.

~~~
linuxps2
USPS/FedEx overnight is the go-to method for shipping snakes in the US. There
is special packaging to maintain consistent temps. That's how I got my carpet
python

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imglorp
According to the article, snakes and turtles are not allowed in USPS. I wonder
why? I'd rather a 20 inch python escape than a 20 inch baby alligator.

~~~
linuxps2
I should correct my statement, I meant to say UPS/FedEx - not sure why USPS
cares about snakes but until I hear more I'm going to blame Samuel L. Jackson

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LogicX
Buddy of mine started a whole business around the rules regarsing shipping
live frogs.

Even wrote a book about his adventures:
[http://www.onemillionfrogs.com/](http://www.onemillionfrogs.com/)

~~~
lima
Not a fan of their product though - two live frogs in a tiny plastic box.
Seems a bit cruel.

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kiernanmcgowan
Fwiw, bees are sold by the pound.

I'm just waiting for the day when I can order 20lbs of bees on amazon prime...
but shipped to my office.

~~~
zimpenfish
I'm waiting for the day when I can order 20lbs of killer bees on Amazon Prime
... but shipped to someone else's office.

~~~
jnordwick
Just waiting for somebody to start a campaign to get everybody to ship bees
and scorpions to their favorite Congress critter.

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sabujp
TIL you can mail live scorpions around the US.

[https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep184083](https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep184083)

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lafay
When USPS first launched Parcel Post in 1913, people would "mail" their kids
to relatives. No joke:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/05/24...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/05/24/mail-
that-baby-a-brief-history-of-kids-sent-through-the-u-s-postal-service/)

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bunkydoo
I worked at a rural post office for a little over a year, sometimes we'd get
chicks going out to the farms - other times it was insects. Pretty impressive
the scope of services offered by the postal service

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pvdebbe
Pets Over Night dot com!

~~~
jamespetercook
GTA radio was hilarious!

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5trokerac3
I'm going to start CluckBox, a service to have a live chicken delivered to
your doorstep every month.

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tenken
Meh. I was a Fedex Ground truck loader for 2 summers. When the box of Crickets
en route to a petstore has a tear in the container and crickets are wandering
all over the bed of the truck and boxes -- it's gross.

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carlob
I'm very surprised lobsters and other shellfish don't make the cut…

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homero
I've ordered frogs in the mail before, still have them

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pbhjpbhj
FWIW Dave Gorman's comedy show "Modern life is goodish" has an episode (S3.E4)
about sending bees through the UK postal service.

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ginko
I'm surprised you're allowed to mail scorpions but apparently not spiders?

~~~
bbarn
Spiders aren't prohibited. I used to mail tarantulas back and forth with
breeders and dealers frequently when I kept them.

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ada1981
Possible way for the fed to save taxpayer money on domestic travel by
utilizing the USPS:

"Small, Harmless, Cold–Blooded Animals"

~~~
djrogers
There are some small-ish congresspeople, but I wouldn't call any of them
harmless.

~~~
ada1981
Perhaps it was a bit of a stretch in service of snark.

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bitwize
I'm not going to sleep tonight, knowing that our mail might have live
scorpions in it.

------
Mysterix
So you can't send a cat [https://xkcd.com/325/](https://xkcd.com/325/)

~~~
kbutler
Because the USPS wouldn't be sure if it were alive or dead...

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dfc
It's a terrible joke, but I think it's was supposed to be cute because bees
fly so ground transportation wouldn't work.

I think HN has been deteriorating lately because of comments lame jokes. There
are a bunch in this story.

~~~
TimTheTinker
I thought there was also a chuckle there about the queen bee having
"attendants" accompanying her, like in stories about human queens.

~~~
dfc
Differences in what is funny is why I think jokes just don't work well on
discussion forums. I assume that this is the reason they are called
attendants. Things that seem to follow logically are not comical to me.

~~~
Stratoscope
The term "attendants" didn't come from anyone joking around in this thread.
The linked USPS information page uses the word because it's what beekeepers
call them:

> _Monday morning myth: attendants must be removed from queen cages_

> _Many beekeepers believe that you must remove attendant bees from queen
> shipping cages before you introduce a caged queen into a hive. They believe
> the queen will more likely be killed by the receiving hive if both the
> attendants and the queen have a foreign odor._

> _This simply is not true. If you install the caged queen properly, the
> attendants will cause no problem. Before long the queen’s pheromone will
> circulate throughout the hive. All the bees—as well as the attendants—will
> then smell the same._

[https://honeybeesuite.com/monday-morning-myth-attendants-
mus...](https://honeybeesuite.com/monday-morning-myth-attendants-must-be-
removed/)

------
thebiglebrewski
Sorry to be a downer but...what does this have to do with Hacker News,
exactly?

~~~
acuozzo
It was submitted. Other HackerNews users voted enough for it to be on the
front page.

~~~
Coloq
Also, the plethora of Live Bees stickers that were placed around DEFCON this
year comes to mind.

------
libeclipse
Considering how terrible USPS is, why would anyone ever trust them with
anything, never mind a _live animal_.

~~~
nxc18
In my experience, USPS has been at least as reliable as FedEx and UPS. I've
had more issues with those two (late shipments, delivery to wrong address,
losing things in the mail) than I've had with USPS.

I've also been impressed with their physical locations. The workers are
attentive and helpful (I don't mail letters very often; they have the answers
to my many questions). This has been contrary to the stereotype of the post
office being similar to the DMV.

~~~
hak8or
It depends greatly on your location. Mine is very bad, I've lost maybe 10
packages over the past few years or so. Thankfully Amazon has been kind, but I
worry I may eventually raise a flag there, even though I tell them constantly
my local usps is trash.

The people in my post office are extremely rude and about as "I don't care" or
"not my problem" as you can imagine. To be fair, I've also seen some extremely
rude customers in the past too. From what I see, they are also very
understaffed and probably under paid, but then again they have godly benefits
and job security.

~~~
Spooky23
You have a lot more recourse with USPS, from calling the inspector general to
getting your congressman involved.

With UPS/Fedex, forget it. They have bad branches too, particularly Fedex
ground.

The other thing as a smallish shipper you can actually use the insurance. If
you make claims with UPS/Fedex, they'll retailiate by raising your negotiated
rates.

~~~
moocowtruck
> You have a lot more recourse with USPS

no you don't, most of our workforce is union protected, they can poop in your
package and not lose their jobs

