

Saturn’s Strange Hexagon - tagawa
http://www.universetoday.com/98699/saturns-strange-hexagon-in-living-color/

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mbq
This is not very surprising because such patterns do emerge in various fluid
dynamics experiments; especially rotating bucket (like
<http://magazine.concordia.ca/2008/fall/features/homer.shtml>) or hydraulic
jump (like <http://www.evo.ds.mpg.de/erik/?page=research>).

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andrewflnr
Re the first link, it said that hexagonal shapes are unstable. Does that mean
the rotational speed of Saturn has to be in a small range, or does it
stabilize on larger scales?

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INTPenis
Layman's opinion but on such large scales unstable might be relative. It could
be unstable for longer than the roman empire has existed.

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andrewflnr
In principle, but that's not really what I meant. I'm wondering how unlikely
it is for Saturn to have a rotational speed that makes the hexagon possible.

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JanezStupar
Thinking about this storm reminded me about how Allen wrench holes are
drilled: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg0q2kgIVxo>

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aptwebapps
That's pretty neat, although I couldn't figure it out from that video. This
one explains it in detail: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUEcagEmmZo>

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charonn0
Makes one wonder whether nature is defined by mathematics, or is mathematics
defined by nature?

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JanezStupar
Mathematics is an internally consistent model. Nature is an internally
consistent system. We do not understand how nature works (precise factors and
their values), but we understand how mathematics works, since we designed it
for a sole purpose of mimicking and modeling the laws of nature.

But know that mathematics (modeling in the broadest sense) only makes sense
within its set of axioms and that there are many possible kinds of mathematics
out there.

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charonn0
Math is the ideal tool for understanding how nature works. We see math
everywhere in nature, like this hexagram. In principle, we can describe
exactly how the hexagram got to be there, through math.

But we don't understand _why_. Can we know whether math yields to nature, or
nature yields to math? Does the question even follow?

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JanezStupar
Eh, no what we see in nature are laws of nature in action.

And we cannot explain the hexagram exactly because we do not have the formula
that produced that pattern. What our models do is to give us an vague idea of
what is happening.

There are barely any perfect geometric shapes in the nature, at least at the
macro level.

Strictly speaking, math has to yield to the laws of nature as it does not
exist outside the laws of nature (as mathematics is in our minds). But that is
kind of sideways thinking, as of all the concepts and ideas that are
achievable through mathematics we are mostly interested in those that fit to
the world around us and we discard the others. That is the reason why so many
people get this "Oh my god it is all connected!" feeling.

It is precisely so, because we are mostly interested in the aspects that fit
the world we see around us and we selectively discard the aspects that do not
fit. In a sense we are writing a story we want to hear.

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charonn0
But if the math we have is accurate because we have distilled it from the
inaccurate, the question remains _why is it accurate?_

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JanezStupar
All the math is accurate, we just distilled the parts we like from the parts
we don't like.

Regarding accuracy let me try again, it is accurate because it is internally
consistent. However notion of two apples being 'same' (e.g. completely
interchangeable, satisfying the identity) is silly in absolute terms since
laws of nature are much more complex.

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charonn0
_it is accurate because it is internally consistent_

Internal consistency is necessary for accuracy but not sufficient.

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FoeNyx
Reminded me of this comic : [http://www.smbc-
comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1930#c...](http://www.smbc-
comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1930#comic)

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dave1
just a random thought on a spiritual bent of mind
[http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2010/07/saturns-
polar-...](http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2010/07/saturns-polar-design-
resembles-yantra.html)

