
1-Euro Houses - Shinobuu
https://1eurohouses.com/case-a-1-euro-houses/
======
iagovar
Im +30 in Spain and I thought the demographic winter would land some great
opportunities to buy a home. But looking into some deserted municipalities
everything keeps being expensive, despite the extremely low demand (and I know
this because I scrape the listings and track em). If I want to buy a shitty
house that needs restoration I'm investing over 200k. Not to mention that the
land registry holds values way above the market, so even if If I was able to
buy for 1€ I would be paying taxes over 100k or whatever the value.

If you talk to some owners they seem to not care. Yeah they know that their
property is falling apart but they won't sell under $value because they bought
it at that price or similar reasonings.

So as an individual, what can I do? I don't want to be renting my whole life,
I actually want to buy property but the market just doesn't adjust for some
reasons. Remember we're talking about Spain, where the job market is shit, and
the economy just can't keep up with the events.

~~~
ArkVark
This is the problem with a lack of land and property taxation. Elderly people
will hold onto assets forever, until death essentially, whilst the building
and society collapses around them. Meanwhile they demand a huge amount of
welfare and healthcare services without paying into the system.

At least the land tax system in the USA encourages downsizing and efficient
allocation of this resource.

~~~
stevoo
And what would you'r solution be? Take from them the houses they worked their
whole lives to acquire and put them in elderly homes? They have paid their
share to society by providing the taxes for 65+ years that they have worked
and brought us where we are today. Those homes are not vanished from the
market. They will be inherited by their children and so on. Land taxation is
by my opinion inherently bad for that specific reason ( if they have only one
piece of land )

The problem is that we are pilling into cities where land is minimal and thus
the market works in supply and demand.

Hopefully as years pass, where remote work is more and more accessible you can
be owning your own 1 euro or whatever home in any area and not worry about
limited land.

~~~
RHSeeger
I really don't understand this argument. Land taxes are supposed to pay for
the various services in the area (schools, roads, etc). You don't pay your
fair share and be done, you pay every year because those services cost money
every year. If, at some point, you can no longer afford those costs (excluding
those situations where social welfare safety nets are supposed to help), you
move somewhere else. You don't get to keep taking advantage those services
without paying for them just because you've been there for a long time.

~~~
corty
In Germany thats what income tax is for. The municipality receives the money
and funds local infrastructure from it. I think the rest of Europe is at least
similar in this regard.

One can argue about which system is better, but taxing elderly people out of
their homes would never fly politically over here.

~~~
luckylion
> In Germany thats what income tax is for.

No. The main funding for local communities are property tax ("Grundsteuer")
and business tax ("Gewerbesteuer"), income tax share only accounts for about a
third. The height of both are also set on the local level the community has a
very direct way to change the available money.

~~~
geff82
And Grundsteuer is quite cheap compared to property taxes in North America.

------
abeppu
People on this thread rightly point out that this isn't a great deal b/c the
costs to actually get it to livable condition, along with conservation
constraints might be quite significant.

I think an interesting point of comparison is Japan's policies around
abandoned houses, and efforts to try to prop up vanishing rural communities,
where aside from repair/renovation and administration costs, the owner can
also be obligated to actively farm agricultural land associated with the
property.

[https://blog.gaijinpot.com/buy-abandoned-house-in-
japan/](https://blog.gaijinpot.com/buy-abandoned-house-in-japan/)

~~~
fomine3
A point in Japan is that property owner can't throw away own properties. So
they need to sell unused properties to reduce property taxes.

~~~
taejo
Can you throw away owned real property elsewhere? The closest I can think of
is not paying property taxes and hoping the state/municipality will seize the
property and not come after you for the difference. If the actual value of the
property is zero or negative it's difficult to come out ahead.

------
throwaway0a5e
If after a decade of reading about $500 houses in Detroit people haven't
figured out what "cost of compliance" means then they probably never will at
this point.

When you read the words "$<small_number> house" the words you should read in
your mind are "dilapidated building in a municipality with crazy back-tax
scheme that would make the California RMV proud and probably also regulatory
capture by relevant trade(s) that inflates the cost of repairing the building"

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

You wanna know how much a house costs look at the average income of the
working households in the neighborhood. What they can afford is about what it
costs.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Or maybe "$<small_number> house" just means somewhere no one wants to live.
You can get a reasonable house in rural Saskatchewan without any fine print
for under USD$20K.

[https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Cheap-Homes-For-
Sale/SK.html?...](https://www.point2homes.com/CA/Cheap-Homes-For-
Sale/SK.html?location=Saskatchewan&PropertyType=House%2C+CondoApartment%2C+RowTownhouse%2C+DuplexTriplex%2C+Mobile%2C+Recreational&search_mode=location&RedirectToDirectory=on&page=1&sort_by=ASC_price&SelectedView=listings&LocationGeoId=205410&location_changed=&ajax=1)

~~~
alkonaut
Yeah I mean for $1 I expect a shed without running water but I expect most of
the cheapness to be due to high fixed costs and low demand, e.g. because of a
non-existent job market.

Now that tons of people with good tech jobs can work from almost anywhere, I
expect some of these remote locations to become quite poopular. I wouldn't
mind spending summers in a shed in a remote part of Italy, for example.

~~~
ProZsolt
The problem these small towns rarely have adequate internet for remote work. I
hope this will change with Starlink.

~~~
alkonaut
4G is more than enough for what I need (I'm going to assume now that anywhere
at all populated in these countries already have decent 4G or will have within
the foreseeable future). This is the case already in e.g. Northern rural
Sweden. It's far _far_ less densely populated than anywhere in Italy.

------
Raed667
This video [0] "The Truth Behind Italy's $1 Homes" by Business Insider,
explains the concept, the motivation behind it and how these houses will cost
you way more than 1$ in fees and restoration efforts.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP2vtDLTAgM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP2vtDLTAgM)

~~~
nottorp
Transcript? Rather not watch a talking head.

~~~
w-m
There's some listing of the expenses being done at
[https://youtu.be/nP2vtDLTAgM?t=412](https://youtu.be/nP2vtDLTAgM?t=412)

    
    
      Listing $1
      Taxes $400
      Deposit $5,600
      Renovations $60,000
      Flights $10,000
    

Earlier they talk about taxes + fees totalling about $3,000. A few seconds
after listing the expenses they cite a Forbes article, where one residents
expects to spend $124,000 to renovate their place.

They talk about some of these homes requiring at least $17,000 of renovations
to be done.

The houses are sometimes auctioned off, starting at $1, but they may be sold
for more than $20,000.

The deposit is refundable if you start renovating within a year after buying
the house.

~~~
nottorp
Thank you kind sir or madam or alien!

------
ciguy
I looked into this pretty extensively when Italy announced it and like most
government initiatives there it's a borderline scam and was done for the PR
not because it makes sense. Each of these houses requires extensive renovation
work, usually of the type that can only be performed by an expensive
specialized contractor.

Besides the expected costs for this work (Which will be at least 20k Euros up
to 200k or more) you will be responsible for paying for many different permits
to do this work which can also add up to 100s of Euros. Then you will find out
that you get only one year from purchase to complete all renovations or you
forfeit your investment.

After all this if you still aren't convinced you will find that the local
governments will take months to issue each permit. The few specialized
contractors licensed to perform the work will not show up for weeks at a time
randomly whenever they feel like it. After one year you will have paid tens of
thousands of Euros to local governments and contractors and your house will be
worse than when you started.

Since you didn't meet the deadline the local government will take the house
back and sell it for 1 Euro to the next sucker in line. This is a stimulus
program for local governments and contractors in small Italian towns, and you
are the source of funding if you decide to try to buy one of these houses.

~~~
SuoDuanDao
In theory, could someone who wanted to spend a year in Italy buy one of these
houses for 1 Euro and just not initiate any of that repair work?

~~~
ciguy
No, you cannot live in the house until it is certified as habitable. Like many
things in Italy this would no doubt be flexible with the right "permits" paid
for to the right officials. But the houses would likely have no working
electricity, heat, water or plumbing. So you wouldn't really want to live
there anyway.

~~~
mensetmanusman
“Doctor, I’m not dead!”

------
rmason
Detroit ten years ago was famous for $1000 houses. But these houses were
gutted, without wiring or plumbing or furnaces. In other words a shell,
stripped by scrappers.

Most of those houses have been torn down. But the city has a program that
rebuilds the salvageable houses to better than new then sells them at a
bargain. The deal is you must live there as your primary residence for five
years. These houses begin at $50,000.

[https://buildingdetroit.org/rehabbed-
ready/](https://buildingdetroit.org/rehabbed-ready/)

------
berdon
This isn't really a 1 Euro house:

\- Envisage a restructuring and re-evaluation project within 365 days of
purchase.

\- Support notarial fees for registration and volture.

\- Once all permits are granted, works must start within a maximum of 2
months.

\- To guarantee the faireness of the purchase by the buyer, the municipality
asks to enter into a surety policy of 5 thousand euros lasting for three years
that is then refunded.

~~~
alkonaut
So it's about the same as buying a plot of land (where you usally need to
build something within a period of time). €1 for a plot of land isn't terrible
either.

There used to be seaside plots for €1 in northern Sweden, with the caveat that
you need to live there permanently for 5 years.

~~~
aliswe
If I'm not mistaken there are still lots of 100$ plots on HemNet with the same
requirements.

------
corty
If Italy is anything like Germany in terms of conservation laws, you wouldn't
want those buildings even if they were accompanied by a small to medium pile
of cash. It will cost you more than building anew to restore usability while
observing all the conservatory dos and don'ts.

~~~
LoSboccacc
and the results might be backward to live in, we used to live in a old cottage
house that was renovated, split into a moltitude of small apartment units and
sold separately; city council didn't allow to install shutters or to add
balconies; with only blinds you get a ton of heat getting in on summer and
without balconies we had to dry laundry in house, which was then often moist
in winter.

------
mooreds
Reminds me a bit of this: [https://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-9-cities-
states-and-...](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-9-cities-states-and-
countries-will-pay-you-to-move-there-2018-10-26)

> While Topeka gets its program [to pay people to move there] underway, other
> places in America and across the globe are already trying to entice new
> residents with cash and other perks. Here’s a look at some other spots that
> would love to have you think about living there.

------
barrkel
This thread is from yesterday. The "ago" times are incorrect. What's going on?

[https://hn.algolia.com/?q=1-euro+houses](https://hn.algolia.com/?q=1-euro+houses)
says 19 hours ago, but as I write it says 12 hours ago on this page.

------
philprx
Assuming plenty of time, not much luxury taste, wanting to ramp up tech
skills, limited (but existing) funds

Buy one, establish a hacker space, hold regular events, show the awesome
projects you do, try to have community-positive impacts. Do some remote gigs
for funding.

At worse you get kicked out because people don't get technology, don't want
you around, find out you're not going to be a source of income.

At best, people love what you do, help you renovate because plenty of
materials and help can be had in some communities, and you go from homeless to
remote tech worker.

Is this a crazy scenario?

~~~
namero999
If you ask me, not at all. That's precisely what I'm working on (or at least,
it's a part of the project).

------
bromuro
During a similar initiative, friends of mine in Italy have been kicked out by
the local community, jealous they could enjoy such benefit.

Maybe some of these repopulation projects don’t consider enough the effect
over the local rural communities, which are usually very conservative and
suspicious toward “strangers”.

------
pulse7
Most of those 1-Euro houses are in Sicily, Italy. This is connected to the
fact, that "la famiglia" ("the family", mafia) is controlling everything in
society. They will even give you presents worth more than 1 Euro, because they
know they will get every cent back from you. If you stay long enough there,
they will give you orders (like "you need to make this and this") and if you
refuse to do it, they will - and I am not kidding or making it up - just kill
your children (if you have them). So - no - I would not buy this 1-Euro house
in Sicily, Italy. It is cheaper to go to the hotel there than to own
anything... People are relocating from Sicily because of this problem...

~~~
Aeolun
> they will - and I am not kidding or making it up - just kill your children

Gonna need some form of source on that claim before I’ll believe it.

This sounds like something that happened once, but not regularly.

~~~
pulse7
This has been told by the people who relocated, because they were not willing
to risk their children. Another example: if you start your business there,
someone from "the family" will come after a while and tell you: "You need a
secretary. And I have found one for you." Now if you reject them, they will go
after you. This is why people are leaving. It would be a beautiful place to
live, but because of this, people are living. Many Italian politicians tried
to fight "the family", most of them were killed.

~~~
Aeolun
When I said _source_ I meant something other than more anecdotes.

~~~
pulse7
People's personal experience is not an anecdote...

~~~
aliswe
No offense, but from what I know that is exactly what an anecdote is. As for
your claim about the mafia, I have no idea personally but good thing you
mentioned it.

------
jelliclesfarm
if this comes with land, i might be interested. but whats the point of a
crumbling house? homes in europe dont come with extensive backyards or
gardens.

building tiny homes surrounded by an edible landscape and reselling it could
be my next hobby-career. its the stuff of day dreams.

having said that..it would depend on how it would be taxed. europe? i am going
to go with steep.

------
bobwernstein
don't fall for it. The market says these aren't worth buying. Don't go against
the market.

~~~
staz
> There's an old joke that has two economists coming across a $20 bill on the
> sidewalk, which goes:

> The young economist looks down and sees a $20 bill on the street and says,
> "Hey, look a twenty-dollar bill!"

> Without even looking, his older and wiser colleague replies, "Nonsense. If
> there had been a twenty-dollar lying on the street, someone would have
> already picked it up by now."

~~~
Aeolun
I think that:

> If it looks to good to be true, it probably is.

Is more appropriate here.

Finding a $20 on the street falls within the realm of reason, and is not
likely a scam. Finding a suitcase full of cash however, and picking it up
probably has strings attached.

~~~
staz
I you stop at the attention grabbing headline, sure it's too good to be true.

It's probably clear to everyone that the cost in the end is going to be
bigger. If you watch Raed667's video, the municipalities involved are quite
upfront about it and not really trying to scam anyone.

But basically you can see that as a subside or a promotion. The fact that
there is going to be other costs associated doesn't means the market ruled it
as a bad deal as bobwernstein claimed

