
Axel Springer bans adblock users from Bild online - jhonovich
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/oct/13/axel-springer-bans-adblock-users-from-bild-online
======
JacobJans
The response to this by the members of this community is very interesting. On
the one hand, there have been many calls and support for micropayments for
content. Here is a publisher offering access to their articles for a low cost.
The response? People want to "fix" the issue, instead of respecting the
publisher. They are offering low cost way to view the content mostly ad-free.
Isn't this what we should, as readers, hope for? An alternative to ads that is
low cost, and still supports the publication? What am I missing here?

~~~
godzillabrennus
Publishing written content is not a good business to be in these days. Just as
a decade ago the music industry faced a cultural shift now the publishing
industry is transitioning. The gist is that this kind of looked at as an
entitlement not a service worth paying to have. Basically, the fourth estate
is a zombie about to be put down unless something drastic happens.

~~~
tmalsburg2
That users feel entitled to free content and that there is no willingness to
pay for content has always been a myth fabricated by an industry unwilling to
face its own failure. I'm really surprised that there are still people who
believe in this myth because there are now plenty of examples showing that it
is quite possible to make serious money by selling content (Spotify, Netflix,
iTunes store, New York Times, among many others).

~~~
thaumaturgy
The difficulty here is that people refer to "content" as though it's a
commodity, and it's not. There's a huge difference between the market value of
content provided by the New York Times and the content in a tabloid (even if
it is a popular publication like Bild).

With blogs and citizen journalism and everything else there are now millions
of sources of "content", and content by itself has become almost value-less. I
think _good_ content is getting more and more valuable by contrast, although
its market is probably shrinking.

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danso
FWIW, the Washington Post started doing this last month...and at some point
they've apparently decided to stop doing it:

[http://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewzeitlin/the-washington-
post-b...](http://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewzeitlin/the-washington-post-begins-
blocking-ad-blockers#.kwY6X76g0)

> _In one case, using Chrome with AdBlock on, the Post had a dialog box
> redirecting users to enter their email for a free six week subscription. The
> anti-AdBlock measures don’t seem comprehensive just yet — we were able to
> view articles after clicking through from a search results link in Firefox
> with the ad blocking software turned on. But when we clicked through to
> another article on the site, the redirect screen popped up._

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Geekette
War indeed. Well, since AdBlock introduced me to that addictive clean-browsing
crack, I can't go back.

I don't read Bild but as I've said before, most content I view online falls
under entertainment anyway. So, being blocked on sites as an AdBlock user
(like Forbes now does) can only cut my procrastination time short, which isn't
a bad thing.

Plus, ads are not the only way to make money online. So, if it isn't working
for a company, then it's time to pursue another business model.

~~~
zem
Agreed, when I click through to a site and see the content is blocked I just
click back and move on, and 10 seconds later I've probably forgotten what I
wanted to see there in the first place. I'm personally a fan of both
adblocking _and_ of sites rejecting people who use it (my personal line is
that adblockerblockerblockers are going one step too far; if sites want to
explicitly say "enable ads or don't view the content" I'm happy to play
along). People simply going elsewhere in droves will perhaps spur more work
into micropayments, which the ad-and-tracking model has sadly diverted
attention and resources from, and perhaps more interest in user-created
content with some sort of micropayment-based hosting cost recovery.

~~~
Geekette
Wonder how services like Blendle (content micropayments platform) will fare if
such blocking increases. Interestingly enough, Blendle got investment from
Axel Springer (Bild owner) and NYT last year[1].

[1][http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/10/05/blendle-is-up-to-
someth...](http://www.mondaynote.com/2015/10/05/blendle-is-up-to-something-
big/)

------
equil
I'd like to see a comprehensive history of adblocking. from webfree to adblock
[0] to wherever we are today, because it seems like we're stuck in a cycle.
Time and time again i see the web and it's users going through the same
motions [1] [2]. It's the same arguments and the same experiments being tried,
whose success and failure are as predictable as ever [3]. Today is just
another day under the falling sky.

[0] [http://adblock.mozdev.org/](http://adblock.mozdev.org/)

[1] [http://www.zdnet.com/article/browser-makers-warned-
against-a...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/browser-makers-warned-against-ad-
blocking/)

[2]
[http://web.archive.org/web/20071011004456/http://whyfirefoxi...](http://web.archive.org/web/20071011004456/http://whyfirefoxisblocked.com/index1.php)

[3] [http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-
is-d...](http://arstechnica.com/business/2010/03/why-ad-blocking-is-
devastating-to-the-sites-you-love/)

------
facetube
Fix already available for ABP:
[https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41068](https://adblockplus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41068).

------
dingaling
Fair play to them for trying, but this approach will only work for sites that
host or create original content.

If it's a site that just runs Reuters feeds or press releases with some
'editorialisation' then they'll likely feel the impact of the back-button.

Recently I tried searching for details of the new Light.co camera. The first
two pages of Google results were filled with _exactly_ the same release,
regurgitated on dozens of websites. None of them were useful to me, but it
shows how much competition there is for eyeballs.

------
theoh
Without confronting the massively pro-adblock crowd here head on, I just want
to ask what the statistics are for Adblock use Internet-wide. Is it 10% of
users or a much smaller figure?

~~~
putlake
I manage a consumer website with 4-5 million unique visitors a month,
monetized solely via ads. About 25% of our desktop users use an ad blocker.
The site's desktop audience is 56% U.S., 8% India, 7% UK, 5% Canada.

When we detect the use of an ad blocker, we show a small appeal at the bottom
to either whitelist the site or make a donation. Total donations received in
the last 1 year: $0.

~~~
JacobJans
How do you measure ad block usage rates?

~~~
detaro
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10409429](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10409429)

------
sigmar
>“Whoever does not switch off the adblocker or does not pay cannot see any
content on Bild.de, as of now,”

uBlock origin with default settings seems to load their "content" fine and
without ads. If that changes, I'm sure one of the optional filters like "anti-
adblock killer" will be updated accordingly

~~~
arghh
ublock with latest chrome version here. site is blocked. i'm in germany

~~~
gorhill
The Firefox version of uBlock Origin supports inline script tag filtering,
which allows to work around Bild's block (and other such attempts).[1]

Chromium-based browser do not support inline script tag filtering, but you can
still block all inline script tags at once, and the site will load fine,
though with some broken functionality.[2]

[1] [https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Inline-script-tag-
fil...](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Inline-script-tag-filtering)

[2]
[https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/821#issuecomment-14...](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/821#issuecomment-148908117)

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skissane
I'm more than happy to pay for high quality content. For example, I pay for a
subscription to LWN. But there are some things for life you'll take (in small
doses) for free, but would never pay for - for me, tabloid journalism falls
into that category.

------
Mo3
I'm sorry but who gives a shit about Bild. Pretty much everyone who reads this
crap wouldn't understand what AdBlock does in the first place.

~~~
arbitrage
You are sorely mistaken. The Bild is "the best-selling non-Asian newspaper and
has the sixth-largest circulation worldwide."
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild))

A LOT of people give a shit about the Bild.

The German people are also very technologically capable and highly privacy
minded. The linked article cites that 30% of German users have some sort of
adblocking software installed.

------
Animats
They're checking for "SMART AdServer" only. Fake that and it still works.

------
al2o3cr
Should be interesting to see what Google makes of this; it seems to be
flirting with crossing the line into "showing different content to visitors
than the crawler", if the anti-adblock script runs for a Google referer.

~~~
icebraining
The Google bot doesn't block ads, and it runs full JS nowadays, so I don't see
why would it see the blocked version.

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DanielBMarkham
Never heard of 'em.

My gut tells me that by the holiday season we'll see more major sites blocking
ad-blockers.

And, of course, we'll just use different tools. Or better yet, change our
browser signatures. After all, it's a courtesy to content providers for
consumers to tell them what kinds of tools they're using. That courtesy can be
rescinded.

This entire spy vs. spy scenario makes me sad. I'm very sorry that the
internet thought that folks walking by a storefront looking at your sales copy
was a monetizable event. It is not. It was simply a fluke of the way the
default technology was constructed.

And now I fully expect to see large, well-funded players enter the fray -- on
the side of content providers. That's also a bad thing. Going to be a lot of
pain before this gets sorted out.

~~~
keithpeter
Firefox with Noscript: big sign suggesting I switch Javascript back on.

Terminal with w3m - all text visible including the 'skip to content'
accessibility link at the top of each page. Appears to be full text of
articles (my German is sadly quite limited).

Yes, I agree, some kind of arms race will no doubt commence.

~~~
lordsper
Yeah, but the adblockers will win in the end.

Worst case: we lose all bandwidth winnings, and have to simulate functioning
ads to content distributors.

P.S.: NoScript blocks the Javascript warning for me, unless I allow the
bild.de domain. The adblock-blocker only works with NoScript fully disabled.
I'm using Firefox with uBlock and NoScript.

~~~
PretzelFisch
True, we can always cut the ad's element out after they render.

------
detaro
I'm happy about everything that decreases their reach even a tiny bit. Bild is
the worst kind of "yellow press" and way to influential.

~~~
igl
I am happy too. Anything taking views from this hate and lie spreading paper
is good. Ad block should not even try to circumvent this.

------
boyter
I was wondering about this the other day and thought someone here might know.
How does one even determine if an ad blocker is running?

~~~
putlake
An easy way to detect is to see if an ad div is visible and > 0px tall.

Edit: Clarification: Most ad blockers collapse the divs where ads would have
appeared. That's the tell I use to detect ad blockers. There are other, more
sophisticated techniques but this is easy and works a good % of the time.

~~~
boyter
I suppose the next question is how does the ad blocker detect circumvention
techniques?

If you have experience in this I would love to read about some of it as it
sounds fascinating.

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rhabarba
One more take for ad blockers actually improving the Web.

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iolothebard
Leider, kann ich nicht Deutsch lesen :-(

------
JoshMnem
Good riddance.

