

For Sale: The $100 House - dionidium
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/08/opinion/08barlow.html?_r=1

======
jws
From city-data.com's data on Detroit:

    
    
      All numbers are per 100,000 residents, anually:
        Murders:       46
        Rapes:         40
        Robberies:    763
        Assaults:    1440
        Burglaries:  2060
        Thefts:      2430
        Auto Thefts: 2280
        Arson:         88
    

Aggregating "stealing" crimes, gets you 8,970 or about 9% chance per year.
Adjust this for being "those rich dudes from out of town with all that
electronic stuff" coupled with the $100 houses not being in the better parts
of Detroit and I recommend good offsite backups and a personal philosophy that
does not form attachments to material possessions.

~~~
quellhorst
Almost sounds like you need a compound, with double razor wire fences with an
electrical charge somewhere in between.

~~~
lsb
Location location location. If you fear/hate your neighbors that much, why
move there?

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nostrademons
Haven't there been recurrent musings on Hacker News about getting a bunch of
friends together and buying up a whole city block in Detroit? Most of us could
easily afford it, free and clear.

I'd totally be in if Google would open a Detroit office. ;-)

I predict that this is what'll happen with a lot of the rust belt cities: as
prices drop low enough, people will move in and the city will be transformed
into something no longer so rusty. Kinda like how Boston reinvented itself
with high-tech after all the textile mills moved south in the 40s and 50s.

~~~
patio11
_Most of us could easily afford it, free and clear._

$55 per $1,000 in assessed value due in property taxes, per year.

$75 if the property isn't covered by the "homestead" exception (i.e. you get
one discount for a primary residence, everything else gets assessed at $75 per
$1k.)

I rather doubt the city assessor's office will agree that the fair market
value of your $1 house is $1, particularly after you invest money in making it
habitable and/or after you successfully cause the neighborhood to be
desirable.

Though for a fraction of what you pay in rent in San Fransisco you could own a
perfectly suitable house in a perfectly suitable neighborhood in much of the
Midwest.

~~~
lliiffee
Interestingly, the "assessed" value in Michigan appears to be 50% of the "fair
market value" of the house. So that would be an effective tax rate of 2.25%,
not 5.5%. (This still seems to be higher than other midwestern areas.)

<http://www.lansingmi.gov/finance/assessor/faqs.jsp#6>

------
numair
I had discussed this with a reporter from Bloomberg a while back, who
challenged me to buy one of these houses and see what happened; if I didn't
live in an amazing place, I would definitely be doing this right now, for the
exact reason that is alluded to in this article. As artists have been priced
out of New York, Paris, and most of the other usual spots where they were able
to congregate and cheaply live/create, there's been a real need for a new
urban home; Berlin kinda does this in Europe, but we haven't really seen any
particular place carry on the baton from New York here in the US. Detroit may
very well become that city!

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raffi
I grew up in Detroit (suburbs) and plan to spend a little time there between
relocating.

My cousin opened a restaurant by the old Tiger stadium and he is doing well.
He DJs too and loves the Detroit scene. It has its own culture. Between
Detroit, Windsor, and the Detroit suburbs there is a lot to do.

I grew up in Royal Oak, MI which is where the young professionals are settling
now. We have a good downtown with decent night life, a lot of restaurants,
boutique clothes stores, and good coffee shops. The winter weather isn't that
bad. If you want bad--try upstate NY or upper MI.

My only complaints:

1\. You need a car. No matter where you live expect to drive everywhere you
go. I live downtown in Syracuse, NY and love walking to most places.

2\. There are parks and such in the suburbs but the majority of lakes (aside
from the great lakes) were sold off to the highest bidder. I really admire the
twin cities in MN where someone decided to turn their beautiful lakes into
public parks. When comparing MI to MN, I really feel like someone sold out the
MI people.

------
nitrogen
Gentrification, as I've heard it called, has its benefits as well as costs. As
artists (or other creative types, like hackers :) move in and beautify a
place, demand from professionals goes up and prices skyrocket. Even with the
overall real estate market going down, I'm having a heck of a time finding a
combined office/apartment at what seems like a reasonable price in my city,
which is currently going through a major downtown renovation.

If only Detroit wasn't so cold...

~~~
mattmaroon
Their weather is fantastic in the summer months due to the great lakes. Lots
of fishing/hunting/hiking nearby if you're in to that. Casinos, Canada (i.e.
more casinos, plus legal underage drinking) a number of other cities are all
nearby. Hockey worth watching, other major sports that are easy to get tickets
to.

Might not be a bad place for a cheap summer home.

~~~
nitrogen
The hockey and outdoor activities would actually be quite nice, though I have
easy access to good hiking where I live now. A ridiculously cheap summer home
would also be fun, but when I think about it, I always come to the conclusion
that the benefits of the summer home "feature" are outweighed by the long-term
maintenance costs.

[Edit: though if a large hacker-driven entrepreneurial project actually
managed to take over a city block, I would seriously consider moving in. I
wonder how the music is in Detroit these days...]

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anamax
There's another risk, namely "community activists".

If you succeed in rehabbing in a depressed area, various rent-seekers will
demand that you "share the wealth".

These folks often have considerable political clout, which has something to do
with why those areas are depressed.

For some of them, your success is a problem because they're been paid to
"improve the area". Since you succeeded without help, something is wrong, and
it's not them. Or, you owe them.

~~~
misuba
[citation needed]

~~~
anamax
[http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090301/O...](http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090301/OPINION03/903010308/1008/OPINION01)

------
rmason
Actually foreigners can buy property in Detroit. There was a story in the
local paper about a group of Chinese investors buying up blocks of houses.

Can you imagine a Michigan YCombinator where they would own a block of houses
and provide a place to live? A self contained entrepreneurial village? It
would have to be an outsider as the locals just don't think that way.

------
quellhorst
I'm seriously considering a move up to Detroit. Is anyone else interested in
getting a "hacker block" setup?

~~~
mattmaroon
Count me in. I won't live there, but I only live about 2.5 hours away, and
could quite trivially afford a 2nd home there.

------
swombat
A couple of years ago you could even have remortgaged it for $100k! Win-win...

Interesting idea, though. Seems to me that as more and more people find
themselves able to literally work from anywhere, this will happen more and
more often. Why move to the end of the world to live cheaply, when you can
just move to a cheap city within your own country and enjoy the same benefits,
but with a similar culture?

~~~
patio11
I'm often left to wonder this one myself, although I make a poor example for
someone living in "my own country".

Much love for the folks in Silicon Valley, but lately we've got this series of
tubes thing that can ship your code to your customers from just about
anywhere. I used to live in St. Louis. Nice place! As of 2004 a roommate and I
split a nice two-bedroom apartment, in a safe neighborhood with a nice twenty-
something atmosphere, for about $800 a month.

If rent is $800 and your California-ramen-profitable startup is clearing about
$3,000 a month then in St. Louis you can probably eat your ramen in a modest
house which you bought to have a place to consume ramen in.

~~~
wyclif
Well, part of the "do it in the Valley" advocacy is social or VC-oriented. All
those alpha geeks in one place make a lot of connections, work together,
recommend each other, go to similar events during rare non-work hours, and
some even hire each other or found 2nd startups with partners they met working
for their previous employer. For me, it's easy to grant the truth of this
because the history of how these startups began is public record. I'd rather
not try to deny that such connections have great value.

I tend to take a more romantic view, one that says that it doesn't matter so
much if you don't live in SV or Cambridge, MA even if the current metrics show
that your startup will be more successful in those places.

I wonder whether SV/Cambridge will lose a little pull since VC has dried up a
lot. Also, buying a home is going to get a lot cheaper in rural places. Of
course, not all cheap places are equal, but what if it truly, really didn't
matter where you located? There's crucial things to research like
infrastructure, high speed network capability, the reliability of the public
utilities. The Midwest US could be a great place to found a startup.

It seems to me the desire to reach ramen profitability by operating cheaply
can outweigh the cachet of advice and networking in the meatspace.

------
iamelgringo
If a group of us set up a Hacker block in Detroit, I'm sure it would hit the
New York Times as well.

------
Vivtek
I dunno about Detroit, but if anybody wants to join me in my move to Richmond,
Indiana, I just bought a 4-bedroom house for $8000 there (cf.
<http://www.vivtek.com/blog/keyword_house.html>). Closing next week, paying
cash, and it still has its wiring, and a three-year-old roof.

~~~
look_lookatme
Uh, wow, that house is huge. What is the town and neighborhood like? This is
crazy...

~~~
Vivtek
Richmond is a town of about 20,000 people, rust belt, some local industry
still surviving. It has Earlham College, a Quaker liberal arts college. In
terms of "scene", well, from comments here I'm sure all you young urbanite
whippersnappers would be disappointed. In terms of sending my daughter to
Earlham College for classes at $100/credit hour through the local high
school's talented-students program, though, I'm totally pumped. Also the
concept of not paying rent or mortgage at all, well -- thank God I can work
entirely online, but y'know? This is really working for me.

Yes, the huge is freaking huge. I didn't actually think to look at aerial
photography until after I'd bought it. I could probably start my own artist's
colony just with the one house. Or hacker colony, whatever the hell that
means. I guess with a big enough pipe, that would work out.

See the half-hexagonal bay window structure on the second floor? That's going
to be the library.

The neighborhood is mostly blue-collar, mostly rentals now. In the early
1900's, or 1890, when this house was built, it was the Place to be Seen. I'm
told there's a slight trend towards gentrification; these houses are truly
stunning, and they built them to last.

I guess for the sake of fairness, I should quote city-data.com:

    
    
       	 	2007:
      Murders 	0.0
      Rapes 	37.7
      Robberies 	153.5
      Assaults 	255.9
      Burglaries 	1220.1
      Thefts 	3668.3
      Auto thefts	323.2
      Arson 	115.8

~~~
fortes
Wow -- that seems like a lot of rapes and other crimes for such a small town
(20k).

~~~
Vivtek
Ha, yes, it was adjusted to per-100,000 to match the stats quoted above for
Detroit. It was a lot of theft, though. I don't think I want to open a gas
station there.

------
SwellJoe
Does Detroit still have a decent music scene? I haven't heard anything
interesting coming out of Detroit since...the early 90s, I guess. But maybe
just missed it.

I'm not planning on staying in the valley forever...might be fun to be
involved in reinventing a once great city's downtown.

~~~
jobeirne
A lot of garage rock; notably, The Detriot Cobras and The White Stripes are
from Detriot. A few others, too:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_music#Rock_and_roll>

~~~
SwellJoe
That'll do fine.

------
dtap
<http://redemptionincorktown.blogspot.com/>

A friend of mine's blog about buying and fixing a house in Corktown in
Detroit. It is very interesting to see a dilapidated house that is from 1856
be renovated to a 4000+ sq. ft. place. He is very handy and has done habitat
for humanity for years so it may be a stretch for some people to do.

Nonetheless, a personal look at white middle class living in Detroit.

------
rmason
Does Detroit have a decent music scene? The city has a very vibrant music
scene whether it be rap,rock, blues or jazz with national artists showing up
at local clubs for impromptu jam sessions.

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colins_pride
They're doing a good job laying the groundwork for "The $100 Newspaper" ..

------
markessien
Are foreigners allowed to purchase property in Detroit at such prices too?

~~~
anamax
> Are foreigners allowed to purchase property in Detroit at such prices too?

How many places don't allow foreigners to buy property? (I've heard that
Mexico has restrictions on foreign property ownership within a certain
distance of the ocean.) How many charge more?

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phd_student
is there a good search engine for searching these things? houses may be low
enough to buy for recent college grads; if no such engine exists ....
ycombinator idea? :-)

~~~
Vivtek
Realtor.com is the best place to start. Not everything gets onto the MLS
systems, but most of it does eventually. Prepare to be amazed.

~~~
phd_student
amazing; thanks; hacker news really needs to get it's own block

