
Microsoft's anti-Google campaign gets a boost, from Google - CloudNine
http://allthingsd.com/20130515/microsofts-anti-google-campaign-gets-a-boost-from-google/
======
gendoikari
I think this article is a little bit naive. Google sent the email during IO,
because the overwhelming flow of Google news simply obliterates any other
news. Nobody cares about a Window Phone app while we are talking about new
Android Studio, new Google Map, new G+ interface, new Gmail features, new
apis, etc... "Microsoft violated YouTube license? Bad for them, now move on
and let's talk about Android game development with Google Play Games". The
trap it's defused.

~~~
300bps
The things I care about seem to be the opposite of the things you care about.
For instance, I'm ditching my third and last iPhone today for the Lumia 928
Windows Phone 8.

~~~
weareconvo
You are most definitely the only one. And judging from your comment history,
you also like Windows 8, so rest assured that your opinions are far, far
outside the mainstream.

~~~
CloudNine
Just last quarter, Windows Phone shipped on 6 million phones and Windows 8
sold total 100 million licensees. Someone who likes them is the "only one" and
is "far, far out of the mainstream?".

Also what's up with people launching ad hominem attacks on people liking
Windows instead of commenting on the topic on hand? What has your post got to
do with Google blocking and refusing to make a YouTube app for Windows Phone?

~~~
weareconvo
"Ad hominem" is only an appropriate term to use if I was saying that he was
making an argument, but that his argument was wrong because of some defect in
his character. It isn't just used for any time anyone mentions the other
person in a conversation.

In this case, no argument was made. He simply said "The things I care about
seem to be opposite of the things you care about". That's not an argument,
it's just a personal statement. Even if ad hominem WERE the correct term, it
would be even LESS appropriate here, because he was the one who brought up his
own tastes in the first place.

EDIT: And to respond to the rest of your post, numbers like those are
meaningless. Unless they're presented in a comparative context, they're very
much like showing someone a graph without its axes labeled.

So for comparative purposes, Windows Phone shipped on that many devices.
Great. How many Android and iPhone devices were shipped in the same period?

~~~
CloudNine
I see, do you have an opinion on the story or are you here just to comment
about how other people's personal tastes are out of the mainstream?

~~~
weareconvo
Ironically, the subtle implication of THIS comment - that my responses are
less valuable because I am, in general, a negative person - IS drifting
towards ad hominem.

~~~
CloudNine
Too bad you got caught trying to delete your troll post here.

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5717922>

~~~
weareconvo
Now you're not only attacking my character, but you're attempting to label me
for the sole purpose of dismissing my arguments.

This is so ad hominem it's almost cycling around the universe and landing back
on "polite".

------
mellotron
So the implication of the article is that Microsoft deliberately made a YT app
that they knew Google would be forced to C&D just so they could use that as a
cog in a PR campaign? Seems penny wise pound foolish if true.

~~~
CloudNine
No, they got tired of begging Google for a Youtube app for close to three
years for Windows Phone, so they went ahead and made one so that Windows Phone
users will finally have a good app instead of getting frustrated by Google's
deliberate strategy to make Windows Phone less attractive.

And Google wants to pull away that app from WP users by using legal bullying
tactics.

------
dreen
So how did Microsoft get Google to promote the Scroogled campaign? The article
claims this is what happened but there is no information about it or proof or
any sort of logical link, only about MS publishing the C&D letter.

~~~
CloudNine
Read the stories in this post for more details.

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5717749>

~~~
dreen
None of those stories say anything about scroogled either. My point is this
particular article makes a premise and then completely fails to follow up on
it. Its really poor writing.

~~~
CloudNine
Okay let me explain it. Microsoft wanted to point out that Gmail scans the
contents of email while Outlook.com doesn't in the Scroogled campaign.

And now Google is trying legal tactics with a C&D to takedown to prevent
Windows Phone users from getting a very popular smartphone app, YouTube, so
they're smearing themselves here and helping the scroogled compaign paint them
as evil.

~~~
dreen
Lol. Removing an app for violating the terms still has nothing to do with
reading your emails. The only connection is that both have a some PR effect,
but everything those companies do has it.

------
Toshio
Oh. My. F*. God.

Just look at the comment section below the article. It's chockfull of
microsoft's PR drones and MVPs saying all kinds of nasty things about Google
and Apple and not really disclosing their affiliations with microsoft.

~~~
tzs
> It's chockfull of microsoft's PR drones and MVPs saying all kinds of nasty
> things about Google and Apple and not really disclosing their affiliations
> with microsoft.

How do you know this?

~~~
Toshio
I've been in the software industry for 28 years. I was there when microsoft
invented their particular flavor of aggressive marketing. Search keywords
"Evangelism is war" in case you're not familiar with how it works.

------
MysticMan
My fave comment from previous dicussions:

cooldeal 8 hours ago | link

From Google's About page: "Google’s mission is to organize the world’s
information and make it universally accessible and useful."

Last time when Google was intentionally blocking Google maps and then
deprecated ActiveSync on Windows Phone someone suggested Google should updated
it to the following:(which seems quite true given how much of the world's
crowdsourced video content is on YouTube):

"Google’s mission is to organize the world’s information and make it
universally accessible and useful, except on Windows Phone".

~~~
mtgx
Are you cooldeal? Because I see this account was created 6 hours ago.

~~~
MysticMan
mtgx 8 minutes ago | link

Are you cooldeal? Because I see this account was created 6 hours ago.

No, I just thought his comment was very funny so I copy pasted it. Also, what
if I was him/her? Whats your problem, really, with this off topic questioning?

~~~
CloudNine
>Also, what if I was him/her? Whats your problem, really

Well, looking at his previous postings he seems quite the dedicated Google fan
and Microsoft hater. Nothing wrong with that, really but my best guess is that
he has nothing to say about Google's evil power grab to hurt Windows Phone
here or Google's hypocritical bogus Mission Statement, so he's doing the next
best thing at damage control for Google by trying to draw a red herring by
going ad hominem and accusing HN commenters of being MS astroturfers or
something. Search me, I am puzzled as well as how your account age is related
to this story.

~~~
yareally
I don't think he's a Microsoft hater, he works for them[1].

[1] <https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cooldeal>

~~~
CloudNine
Okay, let us assume that he does, so what? A lot of people work for Microsoft,
Google and Apple and post on HN.

I didn't see a sign up message on HN stating that only Google and Apple
employees/fans are allowed to post here.

Nice job at trying to derail the discussion. Now care tell us what do you
think of the topic of this story instead of trying to go ad hominem on a
tangent about some HN commenter's posting history which has nothing to do with
anything really?

Edit: What in cooldeal's HN profile makes you think he works for Microsoft?

~~~
yareally
> Okay, let us assume that he does, so what? A lot of people work for
> Microsoft, Google and Apple and post on HN.

Because you seem to have him pegged as a MS hater when if you look at his
previous comments of the past 3-4 months they're contrary to your hypothesis
of him hating MS.

> Nice job at trying to derail the discussion.

It was already derailed by your witch hunt against this guy. I generally look
at a user's history before thinking of calling them out for bias.

> Now care tell us what do you think of the topic of this story...

Considering I have never said anything negative towards Microsoft (or for that
matter, Google, Apple, or any major tech company) on HN and I am currently
posting this on Windows 7, while using Intellij IDEA, Visual Studio 2012 and
with also a couple of remote ssh instances of Linux simultaneously open, I
definitely have an overt bias :)

> ...instead of trying to go ad hominem on a tangent about some HN commenter's
> posting history which has nothing to do with anything really?

I don't think you're in the best position to be accusing anyone of name
calling and character attacks based on your very angry and accusing comments
so far. It's just a forum and the Internet is a silly place to get angry over
:). I've had articles I've submitted get flagged or ignored. Doesn't bother
me. I consider it the people that flagged its loss and not mine and just put
it out of my mind almost after I submit it.

> Edit: What in cooldeal's HN profile makes you think he works for Microsoft?

Perhaps he doesn't and I read too much into his comments and he's not.
However, he's certainly not a Google fanboy and MS hater. If you would like to
attack people, there are much better communities on the internet to do so than
HN.

Edit: although yes there are people here that have a strong dislike of MS for
whatever reason (and also those that dislike Google, Apple, Ruby, PHP, and
anything else that can be polarizing), assuming everyone here is in one camp
or the other and accusing them of such is not winning you any sympathizers as
I use quite few tools at times that are not considered super popular on hn
myself (such as Opera, Java, C#, Windows, etc). I also use things that are
popular as well (Python, Linux, JavaScript, Android). In then end, I really
don't care what anyone uses other than myself as my decisions are related to
what works best for me and only that. I stopped worrying about staying trendy
sometime ago and I think I'm happier for it.

However, I can't support someone that resorts to mud slinging themselves. I
think it's a shame you are trying to fight everyone as well as it just
reaffirms the people that flag such articles that they're correct and
dissuades those more amiable from supporting such articles in the future. I
prefer an HN that is less polarized or focused only on one or two tech
platforms.

~~~
CloudNine
Geez, I was referring to mtgx as a Google fanboy and MS hater, certainly not
cooldeal.

~~~
yareally
Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot? I'll explain how we perhaps got to this
point.

In your comment here[1][2] with the quote, your pronoun usage and the reply
you gave, one could take it as you were referring to cooldeal, which prompted
my reply and beliving you were accusing him and not mtgx. Since you cleared it
up, not a big deal, but just showing how it can get misinterpreted.

[1] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5717816>

[2] _> CloudNine 1 hour ago | link

>Also, what if I was him/her? Whats your problem, really. Well, looking at his
previous postings he seems quite the dedicated Google fan and Microsoft hater.
_

------
CloudNine
Earlier discussions:

C&D takedown to Microsoft by Google:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5715168>

Microsoft's response(Lying at #40 on second page because of heavy flagging by
Google fans in spite of it having more votes than many stories on front page):

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5715889>

~~~
DanBC
I flag subs like these because the comment threads are fucking awful.

~~~
CloudNine
What kind of subs exactly? The ones critical of Google?

How about just skipping the story/comments and moving to the next instead of
trying to bury real news for everyone by flagging?

From the HN guidelines:

If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and
clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma
threshold.)

You're basically abusing your mod privieleges.

~~~
DanBC
> The ones critical of Google?

Your reply, which totally misses the point, is an elegant demonstration of
just how fucking awful these threads are and exactly why they need to be
buried.

There's no real news here. There's nothing deeply interesting. And the
comments are just full of people who have deeply held polarised opinions
bickering with each other.

The fact that you think I chose to bury something because it's critical of
Google (I say plenty of anti-Google stuff) shows that you are over-sensitive
and incapable of rational discussion. That's why threads like these are
fucking terrible.

> You're basically abusing your mod privieleges.

No. This is a shitty thread. I'm proud I flagged it. I'd flag it again if I
could.

------
CloudNine
Good job, Google fans for flagging this story off the front page, you really
have a veto on the HN front page.

~~~
aeurielesn
I will comment on this one since you seem to be getting carried away with your
_personal attacks_.

Please, stop it. It's shameful to read.

~~~
CloudNine
Well, I submitted this story to see what the reaction of HN posters is. Well,
almost no one here is commenting on topic because they seem to be squirming
and are instead going on complete tangents by commenting about commenters and
everyone else and then the submission gets flagged off the front page like
every story on this Google C&D and you're accusing me of personal attacks?
Really? How about some basic ethics, integrity and consistency from the other
posters instead of trying to pretend that Google can do wrong and trying to
derail and flag the story?

