

Coffee Shops Pull the Plug on Laptop Users - inovica
http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB124950421033208823.html#mod=rss_Technology

======
dan_the_welder
Hmm. As a coffee shop owner this is interesting. I was thinking more along the
lines of getting a megaphone for my baristas so they can loudly shame the
deadbeats.

Most of my clientèle are students so the internet access is pretty key. I have
noticed a few obviously non-student types hanging out looking for jobs online.
Which is cool unless they are bringing their own drinks. Which happens.

~~~
yankeeracer73
As a non-student (with a job) that works fairly often at coffee houses, I try
to not always buy the cheapest drink, put a little extra money in the tip jar,
etc. understanding that sitting there for 4 hours working and spending $3 is
not optimal for the health of the business. I'm curious, however if you've
ever considered any kind of alternative business models besides just charging
for the Internet access or for the electricity? I've thought about what kind
of "value added" services I could charge people for realistically if I had my
own place and I haven't come up with much. Do your economics really work with
a bunch of students coming in and sitting for hours?

~~~
christonog
One suggestion I think would work is cater to user or student study groups.
Maybe offer a discount to the group if enough show. Or possibly reserve
seating for a nominal charge, or with a minimum $ purchase.

I know it would have been beneficial and a "value add" for me to know that my
study group of 8 would have guaranteed seating and beverages.

~~~
dan_the_welder
Student groups typically in my experience don't have any money. Administering
'reservations' is a PITA and I think you would end up dealing with no-shows
and pissing off drop ins and regulars.

------
DanielStraight
I always thought that allowing customers to sit around was the coffee shop
business model.

It's like Barnes & Noble versus previous bookstores. Barnes & Noble encourages
you to sit down and read books you have no intention of buying. They're smart
enough to know that if you're in the store for 2 hours at a time on a regular
basis, you're going to buy SOMETHING. I buy a lot of stuff at Barnes & Noble
even though Amazon is generally cheaper. I go there all the time because it's
such a cool place to shop, and I buy stuff because I see it and I'm like, "I
WANT!"

Anyway, my impression was always that Starbucks and others had the same idea.
If you let customers chill for a few hours, they're going to buy stuff. I know
I do. If I'm going to sit and read or sit and use a laptop, I'll buy a good
drink and some kind of snack. If I want to stay after I finish that, I'll buy
something else.

I guess the problem is now customers aren't buying stuff, which sadly coffee
shops are fighting in less-than-optimal ways. The problem is, I think, that
there is no optimal way that coffee shop owners can do anything. Customers
need to be reasonable and support the businesses that are giving them such a
nice place to hang out and get online.

~~~
huhtenberg
> _Barnes & Noble encourages you to sit down and read books_

Don't know about BN, but I noticed recently that their Canadian version called
Chapters now have substantially fewer chairs than they did a year ago. In
smaller stores chairs are gone completely. There's also virtually no wall
space to lean against, and they generally discourage from sitting on the
floor.

> _If you let customers chill for a few hours, they're going to buy stuff._

Let's say you sit for 4 hours and buy two cups of coffee. If the shop is
packed, your chair could instead serve 5-6 lunch customers in a matter of just
two hours, each spending considerably more than you. On the other hand if the
shop is half-empty, it's nice to have people sitting around, because it
creates crowd.

So if you add 1 and 1, you will arrive at the exact policy described in the
article - no idlers during the lunch hours.

~~~
DanielStraight
I guess I just expect a sort of cooperation between customers and businesses.
If I noticed that the place was crowded and people couldn't sit for lunch, I'd
either buy lunch or head out if I was just drinking coffee. Now if I was
drinking coffee and eating snacks and such, I'd figure I was spending as much
as a lunch customer, so I wouldn't worry about it, but really, I try to be a
good customer to good businesses.

------
mcantor
I was flabbergasted at the account of people bringing in their own tea bags or
home-made sandwiches. Kudos to the coffee shop owners for trying to
accommodate them by adding sandwiches to their repertoire, but I'm not
surprised that it didn't change much. If someone comes in with a teabag and a
PB&J so they can cuddle up in the corner with their laptop all day, I have no
compassion; coffee shops need to stay in business, and to stay in business
there needs to be place for _paying_ customers to sit.

Conversely, kicking someone out when the place is almost empty sounds like
just awful PR to me. It's an intuitive distinction: "It's busy, we need space
for people to sit," vs. "It's empty, feel free to hang out until it gets
busy." What's complicated about that?

~~~
pbhj
Even if they're "cuddle[d] up in the corner" then they're still using
electric, still leaving crumbs on the floor, putting dirty feet on furniture,
still going to use the washrooms, etc.. They may seem like little things but
they're real costs.

I think I'd aim for a tech solution of providing a ticket with purchases over
X amount (coffee + danish price) with one hours free log-on. You either then
pay for additional web or buy more products or leave.

------
indiejade
_So far, this appears to be largely a New York phenomenon, though San
Francisco's Coffee Bar does now put out signs when the shop is crowded asking
laptop users to share tables and make space for other customers._

Cool; I'm never moving to NY.

It's highly unlikely that many SF or SV places could actually "get away" with
kicking out their paying customers and maintain any kind of loyal customer
base. It's really a symbiotic relationship -- being nice to the laptop
wielders makes it much more likely that they'll be nice to your business in
online reviews and contexts.

------
jcw
As far as I know, Starbucks locations allow you two hours of wifi access along
with a purchase. Seems reasonable to me.

~~~
chaosmachine
This is the only reason they get my business over a closer and much cheaper
coffee shop (with no wifi).

------
CalmQuiet
What a great business plan: Harrass the jobless who are working on job
applications (or maybe a startup?).

Think they'll become loyal customers once they're employed?

Weird business idea: figure out how to be _supportive_ toward the down-
and-(temp.)out techies (and their laptops) so you have a tech-friendly
reputation. [ If you don't, some of them will open shops that will compete
with yours. ]

~~~
robryan
There is a fine line that has to be drawn though, can't let people not buying
anything sit there all day in the hope that in the future they will start
buying a decent amount.

~~~
dan_the_welder
Things are getting tight for people. I imagine some people have gotten rid of
their internet at home or used to get it at work. Then the only way to have
connectivity is at a hot spot, what else are you going to do?

~~~
paulbaumgart
Go to the library.

------
natch
It's odd that some people seem to be assuming everyone is either surfing or
job hunting.

From having talked to people, I think more often it's people making stuff,
being creative, getting stuff done - some amazing projects and products get
created in cafes.

I love seeing laptops out in coffee shops.

When a cafe is welcoming of laptops, I always tip better: paper only.

------
inovica
Didn't the woman who wrote Harry Potter do the entire first book in a coffee
shop? Well, at least thats the PR! Just think - we might have no Harry Potter
if her local coffee shop (cafe) had kicked her out. I'll leave that up to you,
if you think it's a good thing!

------
sid0
Oh no, how will I be a rock star writing Rails code in TextMate on my MBP now?
:(

~~~
pingswept
I am proud to say it took me a few moments to figure out what MBP stands for.

------
thras
When I read this the other day, I wondered how many laptop abusers there are
compared to people who sit with their laptop and continue to buy things.
Because this gets rid of both.

Maybe the economy has gotten bad enough recently to tip the scale too far.

~~~
olefoo
It may just be New York. I haven't seen any instances of laptop use being
discouraged, except for non-customers.

And the rule of no outside food and drink makes perfect sense.

