
Windows 10: Microsoft launches intrusive full-screen upgrade reminder - cm2187
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/04/microsoft-windows-10-full-screen-upgrade-notification-pop-up-reminder
======
muraiki
My dad called me recently to tell me that while in the middle of using his
computer, it rebooted and installed Windows 10 without giving him any way to
cancel. I figured that he may have accidentally clicked to schedule the
upgrade. But when I looked into it more, I discovered that Microsoft had
changed the upgrade popup to default to install (my dad had become used to
just clicking the X to close the window after numerous times).

This article mentions that this behavior is being replaced by the full-screen
upgrade reminder, which I guess is an improvement. However, I have to admit
that for me Microsoft's actions with Windows 10 have destroyed all the good
will that they had earned through their open source efforts. Obviously
Microsoft's actions with open source have some profit motive, but previously I
had also believed that maybe the company had experienced a change of heart.

It's a shame because I'm sure the teams behind things like TypeScript and
Visual Studio Code are great people who have nothing to do with this mess. But
after growing up with the Microsoft of the late 90s and early 2000s, dealing
with MSIE 6 and the antitrust lawsuits, and now seeing this stupid behavior
with Windows 10, I feel that I just can't trust this company at all.

I understand that my reaction here may be overly emotional and unfair to the
non-Windows divisions of MS that are doing good open source work. But I feel
that the company as a whole will only take notice if they are punished as a
whole. We in tech should consider this whenever we use MS products, whether
they are free (in the temporarily free Windows 10 sense) or open source.

~~~
efdee
To be fair, if Microsoft had taken the same stance towards upgrading old IE
users as they are with old Windows users, web development might have been a
lot less annoying.

I still don't really get why people would not want to upgrade. As far as my
experience goes, Windows 10 is superior to 7 and 8 in almost every conceivable
way.

~~~
mikeash
Apple manages to get quick and extensive uptake on their updates without
resorting to this sort of nonsense. If it's really better then all you have to
do is show that to people and they'll upgrade willingly.

~~~
GreaterFool
Really? My iPhone bothers me _every single day_ about upgrading the iOS
version. I should've never upgraded any major version since it is now quite
unusable (iPhone 4S). But I get an intrusive and annoying popup every day when
new upgrade comes. And it is the same thing: install now? no! schedule an
upgrade maybe? no! stfu apple!

~~~
viraptor
What you're saying is: you wish to stay with the original iOS 5.0? With
hundreds of vulnerabilities unpatched?

~~~
mercer
I'm on iOS 7 and I get the same constant nag-screens. And I'd say if those
hundreds of vulnerabilities are unpatched on iOS 7 too, that's a problem in
itself.

~~~
viraptor
That's the reality today. Everything is vulnerable. Your choice is to upgrade,
stay vulnerable, or buy a different product.

------
nathanaldensr
It's hard to believe that the same company putting out such awesome stuff as
the fully open-source .NET Core is also displaying nagware popups with "OK"
buttons that can easily be accidentally clicked. Talk about dark patterns...

Even more amusing: My wife has an older Dell Precision laptop that, according
to Dell's own website (and my own experience trying to upgrade it) cannot be
upgraded to Windows 10. Yet, the upgrade icon is in the system tray. I've
warned my wife to be aware of this nagware popup and to be careful about
accidentally accepting the upgrade.

To Microsoft: Remove your invasive, difficult-if-not-impossible-to-disable
telemetry and data-gathering services and you will eliminate perhaps the
biggest reason to remain unupgraded. Until then, this nagware screen just
throws fuel on the fire.

~~~
_Understated_
The telemetry is what gets me about Windows 10... why do they need so damn
much of it?

In days gone by it was a purely opt-in process for various applications at
install time and their applications seem to have benefited from it (SQL,
Visual Studio and so on) so why do they need to monitor the living daylights
out of everything now? And why can it not just be opt-in?

I had been using Windows 7/8.1 for several years and decided to try 10... in
the whole time I used 7/8.1 on my computer I had no issues at all. No crashes
and everything just worked.

I had Windows 10 for 1 month and I had 3 blue screens. This was around Feb
this year.

Uninstall!

Back to 8.1 with Stardock and cannot see any reason to upgrade.

I have "fixed" my neighbours's computers and my parents several times now with
the Windows 10 stuff.

It's malware/adware plain and simple.

~~~
martinald
Compared to web apps which have this * 1000000? Have you seen how many xhr
tracking calls a SaaS product does to often dozens of different services?

~~~
_Understated_
I use NoScript and UBlock so I see that $hit all the time unfortunately but I
have come to expect that with cloud-related stuff but we are talking about a
stand alone product here... not some cloud-based scheduling app.

It should be my call whether I want to "improve" their product.

~~~
martinald
Block it on your firewall then? What's the difference?

~~~
_Understated_
Really? Is this what you have to do nowadays in order to just use your
computer?

You sound like this is acceptable to you but what about my parents and
neighbours and so on... should I tweak their firewalls?

What is M$ changes the URLS/IPs!

I am not in a position to boycott them and I don't know what the answer is
except to not use Windows 10 but I know I can't use Windows 8.1 forever.

~~~
Frank2312
You don't have to disable it to use your computer.

You have to disable it if you don't want to be tracked.

------
makecheck
These tactics kind of remind me of the Uber/Lyft vote in Austin: it reached
the point where people didn’t even care _what_ the companies wanted because
the _way_ they were over-spamming and aggressively campaigning was leaving a
poor taste in everyone’s mouths.

At what point do people start auto-hating solely because of the _way_ Windows
10 is being advertised: not wanting to upgrade, not wanting to learn more but
simply wanting to make it all stop?

~~~
joering2
I still receive those spammy emails. And Sendgrid is fully in bed with them.

Forwarded spam to Sendgrid and they said they will follow up with Uber (so
apparently they are Uber's customer support at this point - great!)

The spamming practice never changed or stopped despite Sendgrid telling me
they will send my email to them (!!) to unsubscribe me from their list, when I
didn't even subscribe in the first place.

As I received more Uber spam I kept updating Sendgrid ticked (zendesk).
Eventually some 2 weeks later they closed it as "resolved" and never replied
to my emails again. I still get Uber Spam from Sendgrid. Stay away from that
piece of shit as long as you can!! (both Uber and Sendgrid)

PS. As of Uber, I copied all my emails and forwarded them to FCC. In short
telephone conversation I was told I'm not the only one and as they have
reached over 1,000 complaints in short period of time, they will be
investigating both into Uber practices and also Sendgrid as an accomplice to
their alleged crime.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-
SPAM_Act_of_2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003)

------
curt15
The media is going far too easy on Microsoft. MS isn't just resorting to
"adware tactics." This is adware.

~~~
benologist
We all go far too easy on companies doing shitty anti-customer things like
this!

------
Esau
What the hell is wrong with Microsoft? It's like they have lost their mind
with Windows 10.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Microsoft are determined to reduce fragmentation of the Windows install base
and to get Windows 10 widely adopted, and will do whatever it takes to get
there.

Their customers have few alternatives, and there's no future Windows versions,
so Microsoft don't have to play fair.

~~~
anonymousab
The sheer aggression and fervor suggests ulterior motivations.

More so if you view them as a company that is normally less hostile (these
days). Though I suspect these decisions are being made by a separate silo from
the developer-friendly "new Microsoft" groups.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Why do they need an ulterior motive? They want a single, non-fragmented
userbase running the latest software, so there's a simple platform for third-
party developers and for Microsoft themselves. That's more than reason enough.

~~~
pdkl95
They can wish all they want for a unicorn; that doesn't mean they will get it.
There will _always_ be different versions of Windows in use (the same is true
for browsers).

Anybody that thinks that fragmentation will ever go away needs to spend some
time in the real world, which doesn't conform to a nice and simple
abstraction.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
That was the case, but it won't be now. Microsoft are not making a Windows 11.
Slowly, but surely, Windows 10 will win, and it is an evergreen operating
system.

Businesses get a special deal, they get to use the “current build for
business”. But the future of Windows is like the versioning of Firefox and
Chrome, not Internet Explorer.

------
chappi42
Contrary to others here I like the upgrade reminder:

\- it looks good

\- you can disable the update (the text in the left lower corner really is not
hard to find)

\- standardizing to up-to-date OS is a good thing (if the product is good,
which, imho, Win10 is)

\- it's not different to what my Mac or Chrome does

\- (telemetrie etc. ... well, compared to what google and facebook gather,
this is peanuts (and can be disabled))

~~~
ionised
> (telemetrie etc. ... well, compared to what google and facebook gather, this
> is peanuts (and can be disabled))

Only some can be disabled. The rest happens whether you want it to or not.

You can block it with a third party firewall though.

------
mirsadm
The screenshot their provide clearly shows there's a "Don't remind me again"
option in the bottom corner. Put down the pitchforks.

~~~
ape4
That button actually installs Windows 10. So there is no need to remind you
again. /joke

~~~
Sylos
So, do we have evidence that we can actually joke about it and this is really
not what that link does? That does sound very much like something they would
do...

------
maccard
Meanwhile apple attempt to force me to upgrade by popping up my passcode
screen when I unlock my phone to authorise an iOS upgrade to be performed
overnight, and I don't see people complaining about that.

------
bitmapbrother
This is quite pathetic. In their desperate attempt to reach the 1 Billion mark
to remain relevant they've started to emulate malware tactics. They should
have learned by now that if people wanted Windows 10 they would have
"downgraded" to it by now.

------
ape4
What are they going to do after the deadline? They'll still be dying for users
to upgrade. No more nagging and a $95 charge, I doubt it.

~~~
sixothree
... hence this push. They want people to get on board while it's still
possible to convince them.

~~~
Sylos
Well, yeah, or they'll announce that due to customer feedback, they have
decided to allow upgrading for free for some more time.

Or the nagware to upgrade for free will turn into nagware to upgrade for
money.

------
muterad_murilax
This won't happen if one has unchecked the "Give me recommended updates the
same way I receive important updates" box, right?

~~~
f_allwein
Not sure, but I wouldn't count on it based on what I heard so far. I used a
third party tool to remove any installers since I am far less confident than
Microsoft that Windows 10 will run on my ancient, underpowered netbook.

------
kyriakos
Even though I don't approve these tactics I can predict that in a month's time
when the free upgrade will no longer be available we'll be seeing the opposite
news from people who "missed the free upgrade boat".

~~~
tim333
On that subject, wondering whether to upgrade mine, it seems if you upgrade to
10 and then revert to the old system, your license for 10 remains so you can
upgrade again free anytime. I think.

~~~
kyriakos
thats true. if you update once and revert you can upgrade at any point later.
I upgraded 6 PCs and none faced any issues I also have a PC on Insider builds
and the changes in the update are very positive. Now I also have a colleague
who upgraded his 2 year old laptop and his WiFi adaptor no longer works so he
had to revert back. It its a gamble.

