
Skripal Suspect Boshirov Identified as GRU Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga - abhi3
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/
======
rdtsc
Outstanding work.

Now it is interesting to go back and look at the PR campaign and all the
disinformation pushed to deflect and cover it up.

The RT channel's interview with the "gay Russian tourists" was precious.

[https://www.rt.com/news/438356-rt-petrov-boshirov-full-
inter...](https://www.rt.com/news/438356-rt-petrov-boshirov-full-interview/)

> You know, let’s not breach anyone’s privacy. We came to you for protection,
> but this is turning into some kind of an interrogation. You are going too
> far. We came to you for protection. You’re not interrogating us.

And you can almost see through the logic - "Hmm, the West sympathizes with
gays so why don't we insinuate you are gay and then they'll feel sorry for you
and forget about you being GRU agents assassinating people".

~~~
obmelvin
As I read (forget the source) the purpose of insinuating they were gay had to
do with convincing Russians they weren't military officers. Because apparently
in Russian society it is unthinkable that a military officer would be gay, so
if they convince Russian citizens they are gay that also convinces them that
they can't be GRU officers.

~~~
rdtsc
Interesting, yeah I can see it. I bet they thought it would work from both
angles. Westerners will feel sorry for exposing the gay tourists and Russians
will feel convinced they can't be GRU officers.

~~~
trhway
>Russians will feel convinced they can't be GRU officers

Russian internet has a field day(or a month already really) of jokes that the
GRU officers, which all are undoubtedly, in the Russian mythos, true patriots
and heterosexual macho made in the image of the Putin himself, would carry out
every order for the Motherland - to kill a traitor, to die for the Motherland,
and even to truly practice homosexuality, all in the name of Motherland on the
orders of "the comrade General".

The guys in the interview are obviously very bad at impersonating gays, and
that follows pretty much the same outrageous "signature" style (the Russian
saying is "sewn together using white thread" as it is very noticeable on any
garments except white) as using "Novichok" and polonium (or assassinating
major opposition leader right in front of the Putin's office windows) - all
that is to make sure that there are no doubts about who really did it while of
course officially denying any responsibility. Just like the signature killings
by Mafia (which the Russian government in its nature really is) - everybody
has to clearly understand who did it without the perpetrators and their bosses
explicitly claiming it.

To the "the_grue" below - sorry, man, no offense, you just don't understand
what you're talking about. Most probably you're just not a Russian.

Edit: you added that you speak Russian. Being a Russian and speak Russian are
2 very different things. That ridicule you see on the Internet is real, no
doubts. What you don't get is that it doesn't make Putin ridiculous [deep] in
the eyes of the populace and that it wasn't a failure [deep] in the eyes of
that populace - and that is the main tragedy of Russia.

~~~
the_grue
It's a little weird to keep talking to your edits. How come Putin is being
ridiculed and it doesn't make him ridiculous in the eyes of the populace? I
mean of course not all the populace is on the Internet and not all of them are
reading the same stuff I'm reading, but still, many, many people are exposed
to the ridicule, which means that Putin has lost this battle of hearts and
minds as far as those people exposed are concerned.

~~~
akiselev
Just like any other country, Russia has several distinct information silos.
The older population (like the vast majority of my family) are largely still
stuck to the TV and old media for their news, which is tightly controlled by
the state. The younger population is on the internet and until recently, the
government had been largely hands off with online censorship.

We see the loud online group that grew up after the 90s shitshow but not the
rest of the population, which has far more influence and institutional power
(for what it's worth). They are far more likely to support Putin for getting
the country through that ordeal.

------
andr
This is impressive journalistic work. If you are a fan of such type of open-
source intelligence, I highly recommend the Arms Control Wonk podcast and
blog, who have done amazing investigations into North Korean missile
development
([https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/](https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/)).

Yet, with so many obvious giveaways, I find it hard to believe Russia ever
wanted to get away with the Skripal poisoning. From using a very exotic
Russian-made poison to the absurd Salisbury Cathedral story, it looks like a
provocation or trolling. Of course, the Russian government will officially
deny any involvement, but they are doing it with an obvious wink.

~~~
GW150914
I forget the word, but there is a Russian word that sums this up. It’s about
saying things thst are over-the-top to accentuate reality. In the same way
that Stephen Colbert pretended to be a kind of hyper-Bill O’Reilly as a way of
pointing out the ridiculousness and hypocrisy of some aspects of the
Republicans in the US. It also applies to someone with a record of torturing
and killing pets who is accused of murder, grinning and saying, “Everyone
knows I would not hurt a fly.”

A couple of Russians saying that they found the wintry weather in the UK
challenging? Well...

~~~
cuboidGoat
Sounds similar in meaning to the Yiddish word 'chutzpah', which was once
defined by Leo Rosten as;

 _" that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father,
throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan"_

------
krn
The Web of Death[1] by Buzzfeed lists all the people related to Russia who
died in unexpected circumstances on the UK's soil in the last 15 years,
together with their personal stories and connections.

[1] [https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-
blood-1...](https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-
blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil#11278400)

~~~
neonate
Western media present this material as if "Russia" means the Russian
government means Putin. But there is a large presence of Russian oligarchs and
organized criminals in the UK, who do the things those types of people do. It
doesn't make sense that all of it is being planned by the Russian state, let
alone Putin personally.

~~~
int_19h
There's no meaningful distinction between Russian government, Russian
oligarchs, and Russian organized crime at this point.

~~~
neonate
That's not only false, but obviously false, since it's an extreme
oversimplification of a situation with many players, competing interests, and
so on. You won't find any serious scholar taking that naive a view, though
plenty of journalists do. The question is where this fantasy of an evil
monolith with a spidery mastermind comes from.

~~~
int_19h
I didn't say it's a monolith, or there's a spidery mastermind. Rather, it's a
sort of a swamp where ugly things move around all the time - today he is a mob
leader, tomorrow he's an elected member of the parliament (real world example
from my hometown) etc. The problem is that they keep their social connections
as they move around, so in the end you end up with this weird network of
"friends and colleagues" where, say, a high-ranked police official visits a
funeral of his old and dear parliamentarian friend, back from the day when
they were both mobsters.

------
alexkearns
I think a bit skepticism is due here. Their "proof" that Chepiga and Boshirov
are the same person rests almost solely on a supposed strong resemblance
between a photo of Chepiga taken in 2003 and photos of Boshirov from 2009 and
2018. I have stared at the photos for a long time and I am not sure they are
the same person. Chepiga's eyebrows and bottoms of ears look different. I am
not saying that they are not the same person but neither am I convinced they
are.

~~~
EliRivers
Without commenting on the likenesses of the two photos, I do note that a
person's ears do change shape, becoming longer throughout their lifetime.

~~~
alexkearns
That's certainly true. Boshirov's photos also show a mole above his right eye.
This is missing in the Chepiga photo. But that does not prove they are not the
same person as a mole or mark could potentially have appeared later in life.
What's your opinion on the likeness, btw?

------
Bendingo
More unsubstantiated claims from Bellingcat.

Remember that video he "found on youtube" that showed a Russian BUK driving
through the streets on East Ukraine ? Well, it turns out it was composited
from a video of the street, overlaid with an image of the BUK carrier. [1]
Higgins is a fraud and a liar.

It's amazing that HN (which I'd always considered a forum for serious,
thoughtful and intelligent people) would give credence to anything this guy
says.

[1] [https://sputniknews.com/russia/201809171068089638-russia-
boe...](https://sputniknews.com/russia/201809171068089638-russia-boeing-
mh-17/)

[2]
[https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/17/world/europe/ap-...](https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/09/17/world/europe/ap-
eu-russia-mh17.html)

[3] [https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-
airlines-f...](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-
flight-mh17-russia-13258734)

~~~
meowface
Could you elaborate and provide some evidence? The sources you linked don't
seem to be related to the claims you're making.

~~~
gandhium
I think he's relating to infamous briefing, where Russian DoD presented quite
a lot of fakes trying to shift the blame to Ukraine.

One of the fakes were exactly that claim - that the video with Russian Buk was
a fake.

------
baybal2
Key quote:

 _> In our source’s words, an operation of this sort would have typically
required a lower-ranked, “field operative” with a military rank of “no higher
than captain.” The source further surmised that to send a highly decorated
colonel back to a field job would be highly extraordinary, and would imply
that “the job was ordered at the highest level.”_

That speaks for itself

~~~
gandhium
Well, the fact that Russia arranged "we're just two guys (wink, wink)
observing church spires" TV conference for them, shows that they're not just
low-level thugs.

------
yummybear
Amazing work, but I'm genuinely surprised that you can uncover top spy
identities, just using publicly, and leaked, material available over the
internet.

~~~
jpfr
They had to make some very unlikely connections. Look for the jumps in their
analysis where they suddenly know what to Google for. Because of what? A photo
from somebody in Chechnya that looks not at all like the guy they want.

Could be they knew what they had to find... Anyway, they have some great
sources for an open source analysis joint! ;-)

~~~
palant
> _Could be they knew what they had to find..._

Or, more likely, you are simply looking at the result of extremely tedious
trial & error, with the failed lines of investigation omitted from the final
writeup.

------
altmind
There's an article [in russian] on how easy you can get a government, mobile
phone, bank database reports on anybody, you can get list of all bank
accounts, history of border crossings, history of mobile phone locations,
personal phone numbers, equity ownership, debts and credits online, for tens
of $: [https://habr.com/post/423947/](https://habr.com/post/423947/)

The passport data in the investigation is nothing too special. When total
control goes side-by-side with corruption, thats the result.

------
myth_drannon
Just yesterday there was BBC investigation of killings in Cameroon based only
on what is available on the Internet and now this. Amazing!

------
jayalpha
I have never heard of bellingcat.com

The work seems impressive but I think it should be taken with caution. Who is
behind this website that he can access Russian databases via "contacts"?
Passport databases contain pictures? (I have no idea)

"Bellingcat has contacted confidentially a former Russian military officer of
similar rank as Colonel Chepig"

How do you find such people? Soldiers should be a dime a dozen, GRU colonels
should be hard to find.

"Bellingcat and the Insider have obtained “Petrov”‘s and “Boshirov”s border
crossing data for a number of countries in Europe and Asia, for the period of
validity of their international passports (mid-2016 through today). " Wow.

Man, if the "social network research skills" of Eliott Higgins are for real, I
have a few other cases he could dig in.

EDIT: I think I was right being skeptical. As mentioned here, while looking
similar, the persons shown in the pics seem not to be identical to me. Can
someone confirm this with software? I would be especially interested in the
normalized distance between the eyes.

Besides this, he has put a picture online that he obtained illegally and he is
violating EU privacy law.

------
Muromec
That's especially funny that real passport data of high ranked security
officer is available in leaked data and you can bribe you way into FSB's
database of identity forms to get up to date info as well.

It's not same kind of investigation based on open info that bellingcat have
done before.

~~~
lightgreen
You don’t have to bribe FSB directly to buy databases. You simply search among
numerous online forums in .ru for a contact in Telegram, ask for a small
sample, negotiate a price (100-10000 USD depending on database), pay for it
with BTC, and obtain it via Telegram.

There was nothing FSB specific in the databases obtained by bellingcat, just
regular citizen data.

------
gonmf
This is interesting as an investigative work, but what of it?

Are we to believe only Russia conducts extra-judicial assassinations of people
of interest? And do we expect the governments responsible to come out and
admit it?

To me this circus around this particular assassination just appears to stem
from having to justify sanctions against Russia by the UK. But then again, I
don't expect a country to come out and admit that they'll sanction a country
just to weaken it's economy and provoke social instability until they get a
more favorable government.

~~~
GW150914
_To me this circus around this particular assassination just appears to stem
from having to justify sanctions against Russia by the UK._

I’m not going to touch the majority of the bait you’re laying out and instead
merely note that the “circus” was probably more a result of the extensive and
expensive decontamination required over a large area. Oh yes, and the civilian
who died and her partner who was affected. That kind of thing tends to make
people pretty upset, no need for sprawling conspiracies of the state required.
Personally it didn’t seem like much of a circus unless... did you see the
decontamination tents and get a little confused?

~~~
gonmf
Are you upset about the droning of civilians with very little oversight? Are
you upset about the kidnapping of civilians into cargo ships to act as prisons
without jurisdiction?

This attack killed four people, let's say there have been 20 times as many, so
80 deaths overall. do you believe the CIA, Mossad, Iran secret services, China
secret services, didn't kill more?

~~~
GW150914
You seem very dedicated to making this a case of “everyone is bad, so no one
is bad.” I’ll repeat that old saw, two wrongs don’t make a right. The
injustices and acts of violence committed by America against others don’t
justify, excuse, or mitigate similar acts by Russia.

Now, can we get back to the topic at hand without these diversions? You were
claiming that the “circus” of the UK being outraged by the use of a chemical
weapon to attempt to murder two people on their soil, and the incidental
killing of a third and injury of a fourth (both civilians) was a “circus” I
think. I’m still interested to your non-diversionary response to my take on
why that would legitimately anger not just the government of the UK, but anger
and terrify its people.

~~~
gonmf
My point is not that everyone is bad. My point is that this is par for the
course. We don't live in a world of law. We live in a world of civilian law
separated and insulated mostly in countries, and over that, anything goes. We
are not at war because our wars are financial now but it is very normal for
the kidnapping and murder of people that a security threat to a country.

My point was that, if you switched and the murdered was a nuclear scientist
and the assassins were Mossad agents (like it happened at least once), no one
was surprised or made sanctions because of it.

~~~
lambdadmitry
You are committing a category error right there. There is a difference between
"is" (as is "we don't live…") and "ought" ("I find it morally repulsive and
it's wrong"), you can't argue one with another. Though it's a very popular
rhetoric device to cover morally dubious deeds

------
steve19
So was bellingcat fed this information from a western Intelligence
organization and then they parallel constructed it? Seems likely.

~~~
iron0013
I'd like to know why you think it's likely, considering that it's a strong
claim for you to make.

------
andy_ppp
We need to admit the Cold War is back. Is anyone else as terrified as I am of
the assault on reason from all sides right now?

~~~
lightgreen
No Cold War is not back. Modern Russia is very weak compared to USSR.

~~~
jnbiche
Putin's Russia is weak but more bold and reckless than the USSR.

------
snarfybarfy
In these games of high level 'politics' I always assume nobody in the public
really knows anything.

Any claims produced by anyone involved are just claims and not facts that can
be verified by me or any of those so called journalists.

I personally would trust neither Putin nor Trump with my lunchbox.

