
Copenhagen Cycles with the Young, the Old, the Busy and the Dead - dankohn1
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/09/world/europe/biking-copenhagen.html
======
INTPenis
To anyone fascinated by the "dead" part, here's the actual link:
[https://www.bededamerne.dk/rustvogncyklen](https://www.bededamerne.dk/rustvogncyklen)

I live near Copenhagen and hadn't noticed this. Probably because I don't watch
TV. I love it.

------
mirimir
> "People here say there’s no such thing as bad weather," said Ms. Gulsrud,
> 39. "Only bad clothing."

That's true for anything outdoor in winter that involves physical exertion.
Bicycling, running, cross-country skiing, whatever. Cotton and down can kill
you. Because they tend to get soaked with sweat, and then lose insulating
capacity.

So you want silk, wool or polypro fleece, and Goretex.

~~~
aartur
I don't recommend Goretex, or other jackets with membranes, for outdoor
activities (unless it's raining or it's really windy). They are not nearly as
breathable as regular clothes, which means you will be sweating more. And even
when you wear wool or a polyester fleece they won't warm as well as when they
are dry.

This sound counter-intuitive but a lighter non-membrane jacket works better
for me, both in terms of comfort and longer-term retention of body heat
(better breathability -> less sweat -> smaller cooling effect).

~~~
mirimir
I lived for over a decade in a place that was often quite cold in the winter.
Like below 0°C for months, and sometimes down to -40°C for weeks. Also quite
windy, so wind chill could be -50°C or below, at times.

And I didn't own a car, so bicycling was my only option. I did buy Gortex
pants and jacket, though. So for riding, I wore silk underwear and sock
liners, wool socks, heavy wool pants, high-top lace-up leather combat boots, a
wool sweater, a neoprene face mask, and Gortex.

I wore pretty much the same kit for cross-country skiing and snowshoeing. But
less for downhill skiing.

I did ski with a guy who almost froze to death, after his cotton and down got
soaked.

~~~
aartur
I'm not against wool/polyester inner layers, they are much better than cotton.
But it's not magic, they will also work worse when they are wet, and they
don't transport the sweat from the skin perfectly. So what works the best for
me is reducing the effect of accumulating sweat, i.e. maximizing the
breathability of the jacket (for example, by using a "windshirt" style jackets
from materials like Pertex).

Maybe in such exteme conditions as -40°C it's different, but for me a
windshirt + thick inner layers (polyester/wool) work well for 6+ hour long
bicycle rides in about 0°C.

~~~
mirimir
I agree.

And I should have mentioned that I'd unzip the Gortex when I got warmed up. Or
even put it in my pack, and just use a windshirt. But it's nice to have, in
case the temperature drops or the wind picks up. Or if there's freezing rain.

------
stefs
> “It’s A to B-ism,” said Mikael Colville-Andersen, a raffish bicycle
> evangelist who preaches the gospel of Copenhagen to other cities. “It’s the
> fastest way from point to point.”

i live in a smaller city of 300k people, i own a car but ride my bike as much
possible. i've been to the hospital several times recently for prenatal
classes (my girlfriend took the bus). once i was late, really pushed it and it
took me 8 minutes (on my bike, that is). last time we were due for an
examination and took the car - the same distance took us 28 minutes, 3.5 times
as long.

------
hestefisk
One of the meh reasons people love their bikes in DK is the high tax on cars.
It is considered a luxury good. The taxation is approx 200% on market price,
similar to Singapore.

~~~
Thlom
Tax on cars is the same or higher in Norway (Except EV’s), and here we love
our cars, not our bikes.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
Infrastructure makes the difference not taxation.

If biking is a pleasant experience people will adopt it en masses. If it's a
drag on their life then people want to drive instead. Simplez.

Give me a nice bike path network throughout the city and I get rid of my car
tomorrow. But those kind of projects are too complex for lazy politicians who
seek to fix everything with taxation and call it a day.

~~~
anarsdk
Completely agree. I'm saving time _and_ feeling a lot safer biking through
Copenhagen compared to driving a car.

~~~
Galaxeblaffer
So you really feel safer on a bike than in a car ? Not that I feel unsafe
biking in Copenhagen but I definitely feel much more safe in a car, metal cage
around me and all that

~~~
Vinnl
I think I feel safer cycling in a city that's designed for cyclists first,
than I feel in a car in a city that's designed for cars first, yes. Though
certainly the time spent _not_ driving a car gives most of the unsafe feeling
in the latter city.

------
Grustaf
> Nearly half of all journeys to school and work in Copenhagen take place on
> bicycles. And people like it that way.

Why wouldn’t they like it that way?

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
Not too long ago the streets of Beijing and Saigon were the same, but people
didn't like it that way and moved first to motorbikes and then cars as soon as
they could.

~~~
Grustaf
Ah, maybe from the point of view of Americans and people from poor countries
people bike because they have to, but in Europe it’s mostly because it’s
convenient, healthy and pleasant.

~~~
pintxo
We might also want to look at climate differences between locations. Denmark
and Netherlands have a rather enjoyable e with regards to biking. Other places
less so. The other factors are possibly geography and the pure size of the
location.

~~~
Grustaf
No, Northern Europe most certainly doesn’t have a climate that promotes
bicycling. Denmark and Holland are flat, that is true, but so is LA. But SF is
not, neither is Portland really, nor do they have very nice weather, and those
cities have more far bikes, so I don’t think it’s mostly about geographical
factors.

~~~
pintxo
Step back: What would you deem to be good climate for cycling?

~~~
Grustaf
When bicycling I prefer when it doesn't rain ice cold rain almost everyday
from October to March, and when it's not windy every single day (though as a
kitesurfer I don't complain about THAT).

It's also not ideal when the sun both rises and sets while you're at work, so
you have to bike in the dark everyday for three months. But that's strictly
speaking not about climate...

And that's Copenhagen. Stockholm is worse in every possible way, darker,
colder (OK, it's not as windy) and few bike lanes. Still, more people bike
there than in LA or Miami.

------
timzaman
Copenhagen? Visit Amsterdam. Crazy amount of bikes for decades now.

~~~
Scarblac
Amsterdam isn't particularly good for cycling compared with other Dutch
cities. I like Groningen (
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWf5fbSUNAg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWf5fbSUNAg)
) because they designed infrastructure so that it is often faster to take the
bicycle than the car in the city (in Amsterdam that happened more or less by
accident).

~~~
smartbit
Groningen is particular interesting because their were (probably) the first
city _in the world_ that gave priority to bicycles and public transport. On 19
sept 1977 the _Verkeercirculatieplan_ [0] came into effect that prevented cars
from passing through the city center. Cars had to circle around the old
center. This revolutionary plan was envisioned by a couple of young
politicians of the Social Democratic party, in particular Jacques Wallage, who
took power in 1972 [1] to form the first Dutch left wing B&w [2].

[0]
[https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkeerscirculatieplan_Groni...](https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkeerscirculatieplan_Groningen)

[1]
[http://benohofman.nl/verhalen/bestuurscrisis](http://benohofman.nl/verhalen/bestuurscrisis)

[2]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_van_burgemeester_en_...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_van_burgemeester_en_wethouders)

------
nrki
I would encourage anyone to visit Copenhagen and cities in the Netherlands to
see how non-car-obsessed cities are like. And generally how well things work.
People in general are happy, healthy - they live slow - there are very few
homeless.

It's like living in the future. But it will never take root in Anglo countries
until their obsession against "communism" goes away.

I think that their drive towards socialism is the logical way for humanity to
save ourselves. Working together towards health, happiness, progress and
survival.

------
spodek
> “Why wouldn’t you bike? It’s stupid not to bike.”

This article seems aimed at Americans. After all, it's our paper of record.

America doubles down on cars over and over again. Building roads and widening
them intending to reduce congestion, causing more congestion. Ride-sharing
intended to reduce congestion, causing more congestion. Now self-driving cars
intending to reduce congestion, will cause more congestion.

We spend billions making the same mistakes. New York's biking infrastructure,
while laudable, pales in comparison to the roads we build everywhere else.

We have so much potential. Instead we create obesity.

~~~
fnord77
“we” don’t double-down on cars. Some billionaire activists in the country have
an anti-public transportation agenda and lobby hard against mass transit
projects.

~~~
lotsofpulp
If I asked all the people I know if they would prefer a detached house with a
front yard, backyard, two car garage, driveway, or if they would prefer living
closer to other people in smaller residences so that bicycling and walking
places was possible, I’m willing to bet everything I own that pretty much
everyone will choose the first option.

The obesity statistics alone would make it hard for me to believe most people
would vote against de prioritizing travel by cars. Hopefully it is possible to
get some change on a city level though.

[https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html](https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html)

~~~
bobthepanda
We have culturally ingrained the idea of a nice suburban garden home for the
better part of a century. If you just ask them directly of course everyone
will say they prefer it.

Of course, framing of questions also matters. “Do you want your child to have
a safe walk to school”, “Would you like to have an alternative to sitting in
traffic”, “Would you like a grocery store within walking distance” are all
essentially questions in the same vein that would garner different responses.

Average house soze in the US has also gotten comically large over the past few
decades. Square footage per person has basically doubled in the last 50 years,
but it’s not like furniture has doubled in size. [https://www.aei.org/carpe-
diem/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-s...](https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-us-
homes-today-are-1000-square-feet-larger-than-in-1973-and-living-space-per-
person-has-nearly-doubled/)

It’s also worth noting that even if a majority of people want the nice
suburban big house, it’s not 100% of people, and yet it is the overwhelming
majority of new construction. This is reflected both in housing prices (urban
areas command much higher prices per sq ft) and complaints about
gentrification in historic areas that have the bones to support these kinds of
environments.

------
Cougher
". . . a vengeful breeze forces damp chill to the bone. Sullen gray clouds
occupy the sky, dispensing an apathetic drizzle."

It's an interesting subject to be sure, but it's hard for me to want to read
the rest of the article when the first paragraph finishes like that.

~~~
toomanybeersies
I like it personally. I don't particularly care for reading fiction, but I
enjoy creative writing. It gets boring reading too many technical articles
that are dry as sawdust.

