
New airline seat arrangement looks to increase passenger capacity - jv22222
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-new-airline-seat-arrangement-20150710-story.html
======
walterbell
Check out the diagrams which accompany the Verge's opinion,
[http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/9/8924271/only-heartless-
crea...](http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/9/8924271/only-heartless-creatures-
can-design-planes-like-this)

 _"..a truly nightmarish idea that lives somewhere between Saw and The
Twilight Zone ... someone (or a group of someones) had to first think of this
idea, create the patent, get approval within the company, and then submit it
for approval to an international organizational body on the off chance someone
one day thought, "Sure, let's try this." Because true darkness lies within us
all."_

~~~
dividuum
That looks uncomfortable. Also notice all the wasted space above waist level.
Just to put prior art out there: Why not arrange seats like this?
[http://i.imgur.com/OyQT6xX.png](http://i.imgur.com/OyQT6xX.png). It doubles
the capacity and the plane might fly upside down half of the time so each half
of all passengers have some quality time.

~~~
Joeri
You could also let people stand, as ryanair considered doing.
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8779388.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8779388.stm)

I'm surprised coffin seating wasn't considered before. Put everyone in a
coffin with air supply, stack the airplane to capacity, you could fit a lot of
people that way.

~~~
bryanlarsen
I would pay extra for a coffin on an air plane. Wouldn't be great for the
claustrophobic, but the isolation and prone position would be great for
sleeping.

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CydeWeys
Huh, that's actually pretty clever, and would make conversations easier if
you're flying with people you know, since you'd be looking at them.

The reason this saves significant amounts of space (which isn't explained
adequately in the article) is that the shoulders are generally the widest part
of a person, and if you configure the seats so that you don't have shoulder-
to-shoulder contact down the entire row, you can fit three seats into a
narrower space. It doesn't matter at all if my shoulder overlaps with the legs
of the person next to me, because they aren't at the same height level, so our
seats can be closer together.

Backwards-facing airplane seats are also safer, but aren't standard for other
reasons: [http://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-know/are-aft-facing-
airpl...](http://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-know/are-aft-facing-airplane-
seats-safer-146695292/?no-ist)

~~~
adevine
It's pretty clever, unless you realize the people we want to put in those
seats are actual humans, who might not be thrilled to be packed like a
sardine, staring into the eyes of a stranger for hours at a time.

~~~
CydeWeys
I've been on a fair number of train rides with group seating, and I've never
experienced a problem with it. That's actually worse from your point of view
because there's someone directly across from you, not just diagonally across.
It's preferable if you're traveling with people you know, and if you don't
know them, you simply look at whatever you're reading (or end up talking to
them). People tend not to stare directly off into nothing for long periods of
time when they're in cramped confines; they do something to occupy themselves,
like read a book/magazine, or they close their eyes and rest.

~~~
Trombone12
In the typical groups seating on trains, you are however seated far enough
apart that only rarely do you have to touch the feet of the other passengers.
In the hexagonal seating you are spaced such that if you lean back, the
natural resting place of your hands would be the wrists of the person opposite
you.

That is a bit more personal.

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Al-Khwarizmi
I'm 1m 96 (around 6'5"). In most planes, the only way to fit my legs is to
spread them out to the sides, more or less like this woman:
[http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/23/29C20B3D0000057...](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/06/18/23/29C20B3D00000578-3130382-image-m-18_1434666276146.jpg)

This design seems to base all the space saving on the constraint that the
passengers' legs must be straight, pointing ahead. I just wouldn't fit there.

~~~
regularfry
6'7" here. The expression "comically unworkable" springs to mind.

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d13
This is not a new idea - slave ships were already doing it in the 18th
Century.

[http://www.fastcodesign.com/1670325/infographic-the-slave-
sh...](http://www.fastcodesign.com/1670325/infographic-the-slave-ship-chart-
that-kindled-the-abolitionist-movement)

~~~
CyberDildonics
Those diagrams are what united execs fantasize about.

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CHY872
I'd be interested in finding out how this affects the rate at which the plane
can be emptied, and thus whether it would pass the safety tests.

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lukev
Sounds like I'm in a minority, but as a broad-shouldered guy I would happily
make the tradeoff of having someones face in my line of site for an extra four
inches of shoulder room.

Half the time I get off a flight, I have a backache from being forced to lean
either to the left or the right.

This assumes of course that they would keep other factors like overall leg
room about the same.

~~~
davnicwil
Yes, good point - other related problems this removes:

'That guy' sitting next to you who spreads his elbow over the armrest and into
your seat space.

'That other guy' who sleeps with his head sideways facing you and slowly falls
towards you (I'm more tolerant of this guy because it's not an active decision
to be inconsiderate :-)

However I'm sure this seating arrangement would introduce similar annoying,
uncomfortable behaviours with the legs.

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Retra
As if sitting next to strangers on a plane weren't already uncomfortable
enough...

Why not just pack people into tiny shipping tubes?

~~~
jonesetc
This actually looks more comfortable to me. The biggest issue I run into is
bumping knees because I'm in a middle seat with two other people 6'+. This
completely solves that problem.

Now the fact that you're looking back at other people's faces like the worst
elevator manners is a different kind of discomfort...

~~~
Retra
There's also nowhere to put your arms/elbows on that design. (Which is fine if
you're a robot that doesn't lean or move.)

~~~
ginko
Having relatively wide shoulders, the "fight" for the arm rest was always one
of the most annoying aspects of flying. This layout would get rid of all the
shoulder and arm bumping, which would be welcome.

~~~
joezydeco
Right. So now everyone rests their arms on their neighbor's thighs? Look at
that diagram again.

If you think fighting over armrests is bad, this is way, way, _way_ , worse.

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notjustanymike
This makes it almost impossible to exit from the window seat when the seats
are filled.

~~~
mckee1
The article mentions that the seats flip up when the passenger stands. (Note:
this means they should never actually be in the position shown in the render).

~~~
walterbell
There are usually bags under seats.

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woofyman
Any airline that had the audacity to implement that seating arrangement would
be bankrupt in short order.

~~~
unchocked
Yeah, tons of airlines are experiencing customer revolt due to poor service,
overcrowding & exploitative fee schemes. /s

[https://www.google.com/finance?q=rya](https://www.google.com/finance?q=rya)

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cletus
The biggest problem here is increasing the passenger density while not
increasing the amount of cabin baggage storage. This is particularly a problem
in the US where there seems to be basically zero enforcement of cabin baggage
limits. When I flew coach, I would always try to get on first just so my
perfectly reasonable backpack would be near me. Get on last and it might not
make it on the plane at all.

I say "when I flew coach" because AFAIAC that phase of my life is over. I'll
pay to fly in a premium cabin when I have to fly. I consider myself fortunate
to have that option and a not unreasonable indulgence.

I actually have no problem with this seating per se because it fits into the
overall model of passenger/price segmentation. I'm not sure how much of this
will be aimed at the developed world since flying is already ridiculously
cheap in terms of real income [1].

I mean I've flown from NYC to SF return for @260. A mere 25 years ago in
Australia it was relatively common to take a 2-3 day train journey from Perth
to Sydney because a domestic flight was too expensive for many.

There are some general trends in the airline industry. First, first class is
rapidly disappearing (eg Qatar Airways doesn't even have a first class cabin
on many of its planes anymore). The reason is that business class is basically
what first class used to be. What's now premium economy isn't much worse than
what business class was 20 years ago.

[1]: [http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-
airl...](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-
ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/)

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fooster
What about safety? All this stuff the flight attendants get on with about
making sure all "cabin baggage is safely stowed either in a bin or beneath the
seats" is so you don't trip up on crap in an emergency. Well, I guess thats no
longer an issue...

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swasheck
"crash position" just more awkward. about have a hard landing? just put your
face in my lap.

also, folks with motion sickness would make these flights interesting.

from an efficiency perspective, this seems like a pretty sound design, though.

~~~
Trombone12
Don't worry, only the people facing forward need take a "crash position". If
you face backward you can keep reading your magazine safe in the knowledge
that any way it goes you'll probably be much better off than your neighbours.

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Old_Thrashbarg
I think as income inequality continues to sky rocket up, we'll see more
examples of some people flying in "steerage" while some fly in reclining beds.

Inequality in flight is not the problem, it's just a symptom.

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transfire
I have better idea. Make bed shelves and stack people into them.

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gesman
Stuffing more herrings into jar principle will not work well when applied to
humans.

Psychologically sitting face to face with a stranger for hours will make 50%+
passengers feel uncomfortable and irritated.

It will also be very awkward and strenuous physical exercise for middle and
window seat passengers to get to the restroom.

This will cause more irritation to stewardesses, anger to passengers and
lawsuits to airlines.

0/10

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callesgg
Main problem is that one has to get a unknown persons in ones face when
getting in our out of the seat.

A Fairly loaded stance if you ask me.

