
Updates to Works with Nest - 9nGQluzmnq3M
https://www.blog.google/products/google-nest/updates-works-with-nest/
======
acidburnNSA
I don't trust advertising companies with more intimate data about things
inside my home. A phone and computers is bad enough. Fortunately there's a
good solution for me (today) and for everyone (hopefully soon).

Home Assistant [1] has been a Github-topping repo for a while. You've seen it
here on HN several times [2]. It's a Python 3 open-source home automation
platform that runs on a Raspberry Pi or other home server. Local data, local
control. It's been being bootstrapped by tinkerers who can handle YAML config
files for a while but is getting much fancier these days.

When Google shut down Revolv hubs in 2016, they posted rationale about why
your hub should be open and local [3]. This kind of move further justifies the
argument.

As big companies clamor over access to your home, let's take a stand by
demanding open standards, local data options, and local control.

[1] [https://www.home-assistant.io/](https://www.home-assistant.io/)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15521743](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15521743)

[3] [https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/04/05/your-hub-
shoul...](https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/04/05/your-hub-should-be-
local-and-open/)

[4] [https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-
big/](https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/)

~~~
joelhaasnoot
One of the tough things about open source software and especially
HomeAssistant (long time user here!) is that HomeAssistant connects to many
services, a lot of which use some sort of oAuth protocol, which in turn
requires a client key/client secret, which can't be embedded in the software.
For Nest, it requires every installation/user to create a new key/application
with Nest/Google, for what in many ways is the same software. There must be a
better way - in the end all that's being given back is a client key which is
used in the actual authentication.

~~~
mindslight
Another way of looking at it is that the problem is better attributed to OAuth
/ centralized web services. Nest/Google is responsible for making you go
through that developer rigmarole to simply _use_ your device. Next time,
choose hardware with a better user experience!

Both perspectives have their validity of course. Your description is more
applicable to someone interested in moving to Home Assistant after already
having bought a bunch of proprietary devices. These network effects are
exactly why it's so damn important that open protocols and projects are
adopted and become standard, rather than these dead end "service" worlds of
Google et al.

------
shakna
> We’ll stop accepting new WWN connections on August 31, 2019.

> One of the most popular WWN features is to automatically trigger routines
> based on Home/Away status. Later this year, we'll bring that same
> functionality to the Google Assistant and provide more device options for
> you to choose from.

I'm sorry, but... What?

You're sorry that you've caught developers and users by surprise, but the main
functionality that they want won't appear until some unknown time in the
future? And they should just trust you that this will actually happen after
you yanked the carpet out from under them once already?

~~~
ElFitz
> Later this year, we'll bring that same functionality...

Coming from the company that promised geoqueries on Firestore two years ago
but still hasn't delivered

"Google. Don't believe a single word"

~~~
nickflood
Don't believil

------
steven2012
Google has become a big horrible disaster. I'm extremely disappointed in what
is going on these days.

I am a heavy user of Nest (7 cameras, other accessories). I've fully bought
into the ecosystem. I literally have no idea what's going on. It sounds to me
who is only casually paying attention that they're killing off Nest and the
Nest brand. Whether that may or may not be true, they need to understand the
perception of their actions to their users. Do they really expect most people
to say "Okay, I need to spend 10 minutes and read through exactly what this
all means."

Now I'm left with the dreaded feeling that my Dropcams and Nestcams will no
longer work in the near future.

Google has really damaged their brand because I no longer consider them
reliable. If I buy a brand that is associated with Google, I expect that it
will get changed in the next year or so into something that I can't comprehend
or don't want, and it makes me want to search for alternatives.

I don't want to "merge" my accouns with Google Home. I want to keep my single
account on Nest like I have for many years now, and I just want alerts and to
be able to see my cameras. All this other nonsense that they're trying to pull
me into is not what I want as a consumer, and it upsets me that Google is
becoming this kind of company.

They are in many ways worse than Microsoft was at their worst. Before
Microsoft used to be a monopoly on the desktop, but Google is now turning into
a monopoly in my entire life.

Meanwhile, Nest has been dormant for most of its existence, releasing only a
few features. But in terms of cameras it's the most reliable which is why I
stick with it. But there are so many opportunities for them to improve this
service and it feels abandoned. Instead of adding features, like animal
detection or car detection, they are worried about how I log in or who my
account is? That's just stupid.

~~~
louky
I refuse to buy google hardware after the horrible mess they made with their
tablets, My first Gen Nexus 7 died due to hardware failure and they refused to
admit or fix it, then I bought a second gen and the last firmware update
bricked it. Such Garbage

[https://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/18/googles-
nexus-7-t...](https://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/18/googles-
nexus-7-tablets-dying-early-possibly-due-to-cheap-memory)

~~~
mceachen
It's not just the first gen. My second gen nexus 7 bricked. And my 2 Nexus 5X
died from fatal bootloops. And there are screen issues with Pixel, Pixel 2,
and Pixel 3 (and slowdowns/lagging/battery issues from recent firmware with
all three)...

Hardware is hard, I get it. But just the handling of the Nexus 5X was
inexcusably bad--to ship firmware that crippled the entire deployed fleet, and
then shrug. Shame on me for buying more of their hardware.

------
FluffyKitty
Heh. Someone should have reconsidered that title given the recent controversy
with Nest devices having hidden microphones.

------
tomrod
This seems like a positive developmental, though still a bit like a one-sided
negotiation.

In HN's thoughts, how should Google have approached this?

(I do not work with or for Google in any capacity).

~~~
rswail
Like a car company with a 7 year warranty, with a guarantee of support for
parts for the life of the house.

Google have a _responsibility_ to their customers. In this case, the customers
are the people that actually buy the hardware. It's not "Temperature As A
Service".

~~~
eitally
FWIW, Philips just did something even worse with their Hue system, essentially
forcing "legacy" (v1) Hue customers to spend $50 to buy a v2 Bridge if they
wanted the system to keep working as usual.

Coincidentally, this was a few years after they backpedaled on a decision to
disallow control of non-Hue bulbs ([https://www.home-
assistant.io/blog/2015/12/12/philips-hue-bl...](https://www.home-
assistant.io/blog/2015/12/12/philips-hue-blocks-3rd-party-bulbs/)) after
public outcry.

~~~
nitrogen
I haven't used a v2 bridge, but v1 bridge I have is horribly slow and
underpowered.

I'm more annoyed by the API changes they've made over time that broke my
integration with the bridge. At least there is a local LAN integration option
though, and you aren't forced to integrate with a remote service that might be
shut down unexpectedly.

------
zenexer
When I read the title, I was expecting a very different article. The title
says, “we hear you,” and the article says, “we’re not going to listen.”

------
dschuler
I'm surprised anyone still runs their business on a Google dependency. I was
trying to use Google maps for Android ca. 2012 - they acknowledged the bugs I
filed a few months ago. If a Google product is a dependency of your business,
you must get ready for a potential change or switch out said dependency. E.g.
Crashlytics for a more recent example.

~~~
Alex3917
If you look at product changes per user-minute rather than just the percentage
of products cancelled, Google APIs are probably more stable than those of any
other company.

~~~
coldtea
Not compared to actually developer oriented companies with equally larger user
bases, like Microsoft, Amazon, and even Oracle.

~~~
panpanna
You mean the old Microsoft?

The new Microsoft just cancelled UWP. Their latest attempt to scare the hell
away all developers.

~~~
pjmlp
That is plain FUD spread by anti-UWP crowd.

UWP is alive and well, just go check the BUILD 2019 sessions.

Apparently some keep missing the point that all new Windows APIs are based on
UWP.

There is much so more to UWP that the store.

The only thing that are doing is bringing the legacy stacks (Win32, Forms,
WPF) and the modern one (WinUI, UWP) under the same umbrella.

~~~
panpanna
Remember xna? How about Silverlight? Where is Windows Phone?

You see, they don't have the courage to admit defeat. Just let it die and
pretend it never existed.

~~~
coldtea
> _How about Silverlight? Where is Windows Phone?_

Those never got any traction to begin with. If people aren't using it, they
wont miss it.

~~~
ptx
People certainly did use it and are now suffering the consequences. The admin
GUI for one popular CRM system is written in Silverlight – a natural choice
since the rest of the system uses Win32, COM, .NET and pretty much every
Microsoft technology you can think of from the past 25 years.

Their new from-scratch rewrite is based on Python and web standards.

------
jasonhansel
To be honest, I find it depressing that people needed to protest and complain
en masse just to get permission to continue using devices they already own.

------
richjdsmith
Too little too late. Google says this today, until they change their mind 18
month from now - as Google does.

------
eyeareque
More like: “We heard your lawyers”

------
deogeo
Can someone explain for those of us unfamiliar with the many Google products
and services: do they "hear" us in the sense that they will allow users to run
their own servers for these IoT things, or will they keep users locked in, and
will merely support some platform for a little longer?

~~~
taormina
I think definitely not #1 (make open) and almost certainly #2 (keep alive for
now). This is a direct response to the entire Nest integration ecosystem going
"what?!" after basically being told they were getting shut off.

------
pfortuny
Unbelievable public-relations megacorporation bullshit full of clichés and
topical weasel words. Really google, if this is you hearing people, I prefer
talking to the European Parliament.

At least they do jot hide their politics.

------
blinky1456
Offtopic, but...is it just me or is there a bug on the 'hide related artices'
button? Pressing space while focused on it triggers the action twice. So it
just opens/closes.

------
skywhopper
“Moving forward, we’ll deliver a single consumer and developer experience
through the Google Assistant.”

...until 18 months from now when the Android team has more political sway and
we announce “Android Home”, a new unified home automation platform to bring
all your devices together in one easy to use system, which will allow you to
turn your lights off by simply blinking into one of the many Google cameras
mounted in your home.

This will be followed in 2022 with the new “Chrome@Home” platform, which will
revolutionize home automation by letting you send and receive Morse code
messagess with your neighbors via innovative light-turning-off-and-on
technology.

Finally, in 2025 we will announce the revolutionary “GoogleOne” home
automation system which will allow you to set minimum reading-light thresholds
for your teenage children who insist on reading in too-dark rooms simply by
yelling “how can you even read in this room?? You’ll go blind if you don’t
turn on a light!!” while standing in the appropriate room of your home.

~~~
ravenstine
I've seen this same satire about Google multiple times on HN, and have made
the same point before myself; I'm curious how many Google employees understand
why more and more people are seeing Google's product lines as a joke in that
sense. Google makes working software and devices, but does anyone feel like
they can _count on_ Google for anything? It seems like few do at this point,
and it's mystifying that the higher ups at Google don't seem interested in
addressing that perception unless enough people complain, despite the
dissatisfaction being totally predictable.

I really wonder whether, if someone with any clout at Google read your
comment, they would get the joke or not understand.

~~~
stingraycharles
My assumption has always been that the Google employees that read HN
understand and even agree with this sentiment, but do not have the (political)
power to actually influence this process.

I’ve understood this to be a pretty fundamental cultural thing with Google,
where people are more likely to get promoted for shipping something new
(rather than improving something that already exists). If this is indeed the
case, it’s likely not something that a few employees reading HN can solve, but
rather needs a big shift in process from the very top of the organization.

~~~
jakear
I am in contact with several googlers, and I’ve asked if they were aware of
google’s reputation, and if it had impacted them directly. All said that they
knew people perceived google as shutting down products often, but their own
projects had never been shut down. They also said that google upper management
was aware of it, and “was doing something about it”.

~~~
bscphil
>but their own projects had never been shut down.

Ironically this agrees pretty well with what your parent comment said:

> the Google employees that read HN understand and even agree with this
> sentiment ... people are more likely to get promoted for shipping something
> new (rather than improving something that already exists)

If the Google elite like your product, it gets integrated into everything and
you get promoted. You probably stay at Google long term. If your products are
the ones that get cut, are you likely to be a long term Googler? Google is an
exercise in selection bias for a group of people who don't understand
supporting a product long-term.

~~~
lrem
I understand both supporting a product long-term and selection bias. I also
intend to be a long-term Googler, despite having been struck twice by
leadership deciding my team no longer fits their picture, no matter the
technical merit.

Also: you can get promoted for a cancelled project, unless you're at the level
where keeping the VP from cancelling it is within your duties.

------
craftinator
The "We hear you" portion of this just screams "devised by the same marketing
team that handled BP's oil scandal". Just talk straight Google, you'll get
less hate for it.

------
chris_wot
That's interesting - Google haven't traditionally "listened" to their end
users so far as I can see. This seems to be in the grand Google tradition of
moving the carpet from under users' feet.

