
AMD's revenue rises 18%, but margin forecast disappoints - artsandsci
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-amd-results-idUSKBN17X2CZ?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews
======
eberkund
IMO AMD is really going to shine when they release the server version of Ryzen
(Naples). Ryzen was great and certainly delivered on performance and price but
it still gets beat by Intel in applications which are no heavily multi-
threaded. In the server space, there are many almost entirely parallel
applications where this advantage will be even better.

~~~
nodesocket
Who's going to buy and deploy those chips though? Don't AWS, Google, Azure use
Intel exclusively and I assume have lock-in contracts? The exception are
GPU's, which AMD (NVIDIA) has some cloud penetration[1] but still lots of work
left to do.

[1] [https://cloud.google.com/gpu/](https://cloud.google.com/gpu/)

~~~
WatchDog
Google were buying opteron back in 2006. Granted their stack is more larger
and much more complex now, they might consider amd again if the performance
and the price is right. At the very least, it should force some deep discounts
by intel.

~~~
simcop2387
Actually at google's scale I'd expect them to also be looking heavily at
Power/Performance which AMD seems to have an edge on in the consumer Ryzen's.
That alone might be worth it for them to start buying.

~~~
paulmd
Frankly, Ryzen's efficiency improvements are marketing nonsense. The only way
they hit their TDP numbers is at single-core loads, under a full-CPU load they
have fairly similar performance-per-watt to Broadwell-E.

Of course that's on consumer chips with higher clocks for gaming - the math
might be different when we get it down closer to 2 GHz.

Anecdote time: my 5820K (4.13 GHz all-core at stock voltage) pulls 92W during
a Handbrake encode. It pulls ~140W during a Prime95 run. I think that's
roughly comparable to what 6C Ryzen is pulling at equivalent clocks - if not
less.

I just built a Xeon E5-2650v3 ES (10C at 2.3 GHz all-core) system last week
for video encoding ($60 mobo from MicroCenter, $150 processor off eBay, threw
the rest together from parts). It pulls 60W doing the same encodes, and hits
roughly the same framerates. Single-thread performance is pretty bad though.

~~~
mtanski
Used Intel Xeon processor can be a great value... however, no enterprise is
going to buy old engineering sample processors for their data centers.

~~~
paulmd
Yep, that was just me bragging about my ultra-dirt-cheap video encoding build.
I'm not implying in any way that that would be scalable for a datacenter.

Although in a lot of ways it does appear to be more stable than Ryzen given
its memory problems. Especially regarding ECC. I trust a relatively mature
platform like Haswell-E much more than something like Ryzen where even basic
memory functionality is touchy and ECC is entirely unvalidated. Given a budget
build I know which I'd trust.

I was more aiming at TDP figures there. Although I realize anecdotes are not
super reliable data, I put the Xeon box together over the weekend and I was
literally just looking at the power data last night to see how it was doing.

I was worried about cooling at first, before I knew the TDP numbers it would
hit. It's on a Hyper T4 and it didn't break 40C during an overnight x264
encode so I'm pretty happy with that.

~~~
mtanski
I think you're being a bit unfair here.

1\. A lot of Intel consumer platforms (which Ryzen is) had early issues with
DDR4 on Z170; there's lots of forum posts about that.

2\. AMD said it was not going to be validating ECC for consumer processors.

3\. Haswell-E you're referencing officially only supports up to DDR4 2133Mhz
memory. Depending on your configuration Ryzen officially supports more (2666,
4000)

4\. You're comparing a $1200 chip to $500 chip at retail.

5\. You're comparing the TDP on processor running at 1 to 1.5GHz more.

6\. ES samples tend to run at lower clock speed then official final processors
with hopefully lower temperature as well.

This just isn't remotely an apples to apples comparison. I'm curious what the
comparison will look like once there's HPED AM4 chips.

On the flip side I personally would not trust a ES chip personally. The chips
are know to contain unfixed errata addressed in further versions of the
silicone and a lot of motherboard do not contain microcode updates for those.

~~~
happycube
It depends on the stepping of the ES chip - in the case of the 2650v3 there's
an M0 stepping... and an M1 which is the same die as the production version.

~~~
paulmd
It does appear to be the M0 stepping based on the eBay auction. I don't
suppose you have any place you can pull errata for stepping M0 so I can know
what buttons not to push here?

In CPU-Z I am getting something different from the seller's published CPU-Z
screenshot - it's showing stepping "R2" ("retail"?) - however the name string
is also still showing as "ES".

I've attached a dump from CPU-Z that shows CPUID 0x0 and 0x1 values. From the
processor value (0x000306F2) and the Intel data I could dig up - it would
appear that this is actually the SR1Y1 stepping. Which is apparently the M1
stepping. Possibly actually a QS rather than ES.

[https://pastebin.com/2YnishGK](https://pastebin.com/2YnishGK)

[https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents...](https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/specification-
updates/xeon-e5-v3-spec-update.pdf)

Not holding out hope overall given that it was sold as the M0 stepping but I
guess you never know, maybe I got lucky. There was no pic on the eBay auction,
and I would have to pull the cooler back off to check what's printed on the
processor itself.

------
ww520
I hope they improve. Competition pushes progress. While AMD has been out in
the last couple years, Intel has been sitting on their butt idling.

~~~
zanny
Intel slashed prices of a lot of their chips by up to 25% basically overnight
with Ryzen's release (in consumer and enterprise segments). It doesn't
necessarily get Intel competing again, but it at least cuts into the fat
margins a bit.

~~~
dogma1138
It hasn't reduced the prices of a single SKU.

~~~
AlphaSite
It has pushed forwards the launch of its future SKUs though and pushed Xeon to
the front of the queue for next fen fab space.

~~~
dogma1138
Skylake-EP was shipping to select customers in 2016, Intel has pushed Cannon
Lake by 2-3 months and technically it pushed it forward again after its
initial delay.

------
solotronics
Can't wait for Naples. I have been pushing the bare metal teams at my company
to consider when it comes out. If anyone works for AMD and can provide samples
I would be happy to sign an NDA. We are one of the larger cloud companies and
I am definitely excited for what we could do with Naples chips.

~~~
hoschicz
He's working at IBM on Softlayer according to his HN comments.

~~~
lawrenceyan
Haha, way to call the guy out. You're ruining his chances at getting access to
a potentially sweet sample deal!

------
faragon
AMD: provide backdoor-free systems, and you'll succeed (after Intel's security
fiasco).

~~~
turblety
Yeah, basically the first of Intel or AMD to remove all unremovable closed
source magic that has root access to your entire system, could become the
dominant player for years.

~~~
boyhowdy
why though? in my experience, people don't really care about that, especially
big entities buying in bulk. just give me what's fastest per dollar.

~~~
allemagne
It could mean much tighter integration with open source kernels (Linux, BSDs)
and the software that runs on them.

The processor could benefit from crowdsourcing development to some extent.

Also, in countries that aren't America (and for many entities in America)
there could be huge value assigned to knowing with a higher confidence that
your vendor isn't handing over a backdoor to three-letter agencies

Finally, FLOSS enthusiasts will go crazy for it, which might not be a huge
boost to AMD/Intel but is at least something.

It may be an indirect way to get more talented and idealistic individuals
going to AMD versus Intel.

I don't know much about the subject, so these are all my guesses as to the
biggest advantages. Who knows if they outweigh the perceived disadvantages
from their perspective.

~~~
johncolanduoni
Why would dropping ME/PSP provide tighter integration with open source kernels
or software?

AMD or Intel processors also _definitely_ aren't good candidates for
crowdsourcing. Their R&D probably spends more on coffee than the largest
crowdsourced projects raised.

~~~
turblety
I wonder if allowing other people to contribute to open sourced firmware could
lead to different features that could help kernels like Linux. At the minute
the only features we can have in the firmware of Intel and AMD chips are what
features they give us. However maybe the open source community could get more
ideas floating around than just Intel and AMD. Maybe some better than Secure
Boot and better/safer remote control features that work directly with the
kernels?

However your point is good about the R&D, and I bet Intel/AMD spend a LOT of
money/resource on those backdoors. But the open source world has done a lot in
the past. Linux is a massive open source project and arguably very successful
an innovative.

------
Will_Parker
I'm a middle aged former investor in AMD back in the Athlon days. I find it
remarkable that the dialogue about AMD vs Intel is identical today as it was
20 years ago!

------
dom0
> Chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices Inc (AMD.O) reported lower-than-expected
> quarterly revenue in its business that supplies server chips

What server business?

~~~
snovv_crash
Exactly. And those few who _were_ buying before will be holding out for
Naples.

------
sofaofthedamned
The recent Intel ME problem may mean big corps at least give AMD a look.

~~~
floatboth
Sadly, AMD PSP is no better. In fact it's worse in some ways — it is actually
responsible for initializing the CPU. At least on some Intels you could work
for 30 minutes with completely erased ME firmware.

Though the PSP concerns were very highly upvoted in Lisa Su's Reddit AMA, and
the technical marketing employees said that they'll look into it. Hopefully
they'll make it optional in their next products…

~~~
theossuary
Yeah, after reading through Libre Boot's FAQ [1], I don't think I'll ever buy
AMD again, unless they make some serious improvements in this area. How they
justify shipping closed source software that can't be disabled, has full
access to my system, and can be remotely controlled is beyond me; but I'm not
okay with it.

[1]: [https://libreboot.org/faq.html#amd](https://libreboot.org/faq.html#amd)

~~~
hrrsn
>How they justify shipping closed source software that can't be disabled, has
full access to my system, and can be remotely controlled is beyond me; but I'm
not okay with it.

Intel isn't any better.

~~~
theossuary
AMD's is worse from what little I've read on the subject. Pointing to somebody
else who is doing something wrong and using that as an excuse isn't exactly a
great defense. AMD could really differentiate themselves here (at least for
those who care).

If AMD came out and said they'd open up the source for PSP or allow something
like coreboot for those knowledgable enough to install it, every system I ever
built from here on out would have Ryzen in it (I even have a system with an
old Bulldozer pre PSP days). As it stands I'm just looking at older chips and
non x86 chips now.

I'm sure I am in the minority, but I also have some sway in what a lot of
people buy in terms of technology, all I need is reason to be AMD's fanboy,
and I'll give them every bit of business I can. All I ask is they think of the
little guys like me who'd rather have less attack surface in their machines.

I believe a computer should do what the owner asks, no more, no less. When we
start getting to the point where manufactures feel like they have just as much
control over the system I bought as I do; well I guess it's time to go shovel
some shit, because this industry won't be for me anymore.

------
halestock
Heh, this title takes a pretty liberal interpretation of what the article
says.

~~~
forrestthewoods
> AMD's net loss narrowed to $73 million, or 8 cents per share, in the first
> quarter ended April 1, from $109 million, or 14 cents per share, a year
> earlier.

Revenue rose 18.3% and losses narrowed by 33%. Title seems pretty reasonable
to me?

~~~
cwyers
It's technically correct, but emphasizes things very, very differently from
the article's actual headline, and likely falls afoul of site guidelines.

------
Zelmor
>Revenue in the business rose 5 percent to $391 million, but came in below
analysts' average estimate of $442.1 million, according to financial data and
analytics firm FactSet.

It is a mad world in which "not enough profit" equates to failure. They made a
profit, gained market share, started something new. Still, hedge fund managers
and investors are selling their shares.

People want to make money for its own sake, no matter what gets exploited.
Being a middle performer is no longer acceptable, but no one seems to stop and
think WHY.

In just 20 years they will be spending their money on canned fresh air. There
is a moral in that somewhere.

~~~
phlipski
AMD has lost money for the past 5 years. They still lost money last quarter -
they just haven't lost as much money as previous quarters/years. Now your
sentiment with regards to the brutality and short term thinking of the stock
market has some validity - IMO. But in this mad world (to quote you) I'd argue
that AMD has already failed. I've long wondered how the hell AMD is still in
business given the losses over the past 5 years. That's not an indictment
against the good engineers there - just a simple business judgement. How can a
company lose that much money in 5 years and STILL be in business. And for the
record - I'm looking at you too UBER!

~~~
jplayer01
Clever financial management, outside investors and a large cash infusion from
Intel.

~~~
Veelox
Can I get a citation for the large cash infusion from Intel?

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stuaxo
The Ryzen chips don't yet seem to be available in lots of off the shelf
computers, especially laptops. Once it is that should help revenue again.

------
mrigor
For those playing the earnings:

After-hours: 12.10 -11.16%

~~~
and0
-20% as of this morning, but steadily rising.

------
brilliantcode
As an AMD fanboy I'm delighted to hear it but saddened that this isn't going
to make a dent against Intel.

AMD has been two steps backward for every step forward for the past decade.

~~~
mrweasel
The focus right now is so heavily on Ryzen, that people ignore that AMD needs
to be able to continue delivering for years to come. It's wonderful for both
consumers and AMD that Ryzen is so competitive, but they also need to be able
to respond when the next version of Intel processors comes to marked.

It's the same with GPUs. Nvidia continuously deliver the fastest GPU and once
every few years AMD revamp their GPU architecture and they are able to compete
for a cycle or two. After that they slowly fall behind again, until they do
another redesign.

