
Dutch family 'waiting for end of time' discovered in basement - pseudolus
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50054044
======
unilynx
Reporting on [https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6004310/gezin-uit-ruinerwold-
ko...](https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6004310/gezin-uit-ruinerwold-kon-ondanks-
leerplicht-negen-jaar-van-radar-blijven.html) has already changed away from
that they were actually living in the basement - it's now reporting that they
were living in some sort of 'provisionally set up rooms'.

Don't be too surprised if in one or two days it'll turn out that this family
wasn't as hidden or "off grid" as is being suggested, but that the
organisations which are responsible from preventing this from happening were
partly aware but poorly communicating with each other... so no-one actually
took any action.

------
supakeen
Being in the Netherlands this is just such an interesting story, there's so
much going on.

The kids, if they actually went 'underground' 9 years ago would have been in
the mandatory schooling age. Checks on this tend to be quite stringent and
home schooling needs to be approved by the (I think) local authorities.

The Netherlands is quite densely populated and there is just no way if they
weren't outside that they didn't notice any civilization existing. Airplanes,
fireworks, things like that would have existed.

Then the fact that the home owner never once visited their renters in 9 years
or apparently they didn't have to do taxes.

Aside from all that, I'm very amused by the fact that this 25 year old person
went to a bar, was turned away, then the next time ordered 5 beers and got to
talking with the bar owner and they were confused so they alerted the police.
Imagine the confusion on the person that thought the world ended and ended up
at a bar with people drinking beers!

Oh and the plot twists, the oldest person first being thought to be the father
not actually being the father! And then being arrested for interfering in the
investigation.

This is just so weird, how could 5 kids ages 16-25 (or 7-17 when it started)
be kept inside for that long???

~~~
Scarblac
Apparently at least some of the kids were never registered with authorities at
all!

But there is still a huge amount of speculation going on, the whole story
could be completely different in a few days.

~~~
supakeen
I thought the mayor did confirm that the children existed on paper [0] but
even if not they claim to have been there for 9 years putting the youngest
child at 7 years old. They'd have been at school and disappeared??

Re-reading the link it says that 'some' of the people were registered.

[https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6004310/gezin-uit-ruinerwold-
ko...](https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/6004310/gezin-uit-ruinerwold-kon-ondanks-
leerplicht-negen-jaar-van-radar-blijven.html)

~~~
Scarblac
I read [https://www.gelderlander.nl/dossier-keldergezin-
drenthe/deel...](https://www.gelderlander.nl/dossier-keldergezin-drenthe/deel-
van-de-kinderen-in-boerderij-had-niet-eens-bsn-nummer~a4a43a4c/) and it says
the some of them did not have a BSN, so were never registered (and the 25 year
old said he never went to school in his life).

------
jccalhoun
Did I miss it or did the article not say what they arrested the older man for.
Living in a basement isn't illegal in and of itself but the only hint of wrong
doing is that the guy at the bar wanted to end the way they were living. I
wouldn't be surprised if the family had been held against their will or there
was some kind of abuse but the article doesn't mention it.

~~~
winkelwagen
You missed it, the reason the older was was arrested was because he was not
cooperating with the police investigation. What it exactly means in this
context is not completely clear though. But I can imagine the police went to
have a look, and the man freaked out.

This is uncommon in the Netherlands, I know there are communities in the US
with small communities that don't want anything to do with the government.
Those people don't even have birth certificates or social security number. But
I've never heard anything like that in the Netherlands.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>not cooperating with the police investigation

Here in the US that means "lawyering up instead of being dumb and running his
mouth", not sure if it's the same over there. If he was really not cooperative
the police would be more than happy to say exactly what (they say) he did.

~~~
Scarblac
It's just the smallest, easiest to prove thing that allows them to lock him up
for a short time while the investigation is getting started. When they know
more about what actually happened they can file more detailed charges.

------
radicalbyte
The neighbors and locals assumed that the house was a weed farm, which
strangely enough are illegal here. They are often found in farm houses like
this or in cheap units on industry terrains. The guy who rented the house also
had such a unit.

The papers are reporting that some of the children were not registered, but
it's still crazy.

I'd speculate that this happened because the mother died young and the father
basically lost it and was enabled by the renter.

~~~
theandrewbailey
> The papers are reporting that some of the children were not registered, but
> it's still crazy.

Registered how? It's pretty obvious that these people were living off grid and
didn't want to be registered with anyone in any way, and that (in and of
itself) shouldn't be illegal.

~~~
leoc
It absolutely should be illegal, first and foremost because minor children
"off the grid" is a massive risk for abuse. In any case, regardless of the
rights and wrongs, one wouldn't expect the Netherlands to be tolerating anyone
living fully out of the system.

~~~
mindslight
That's an awfully one-sided "think of the children" you've got there.
Requiring humans to be registered (ie insisting that we be _legible_ to the
State), is also a _guaranteed_ path to some forms of lifelong exploitation. So
like everything, it's a tradeoff.

~~~
ecpottinger
They either have to go to school or if home schooled pass the tests that show
they are learning the basics for their age group.

Or are you suggesting it is okay to have children and never educate at all?

~~~
invalidOrTaken
The real question is why does the state have any say? There's no fundamental
reason to trust the state over a child's parents; the reason the state has any
say has more to do with might rather than right.

~~~
caf
The reason is because the state has an obligation to take reasonable efforts
to ensure the basic human rights of all people within its jurisdiction are
protected. That is, the state has a duty towards the children that is
independent of the state's relationship with the parents.

There also _is_ a fundamental reason to trust the state over a child's
parents: the state has considerably more transparency and oversight over its
actions than the parents do.

------
jacquesm
Big questions here about how they managed to stay off the radar for such a
long time given that we have mandatory education and a pretty good system to
collect taxes.

~~~
giarc
I wonder how they ate. 7 adults are a lot to feed. It says they had a
vegetable plot and a goat. I don't suspect that would be enough to feed
everyone. Someone must have been making trips to town (other than the guy that
went to the pub).

~~~
bluGill
It says they lived on a farm, not a house in town. From the pictures I think
you could grow enough food for 7 people to live on. Pretty normal up until the
last 100 years or so to live on that much land.

~~~
ricardobeat
This is the Netherlands, the closest town center is no further than a couple
miles away, or a fifteen minute bike ride.

~~~
aerique
There was a man on Dutch television that lived 500 meters away.

------
jhncls
Does anybody else see a parallel with the Turpin family case that came to
light last year?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpin_case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpin_case)

------
Apocryphon
Curious what particular eschatology drove them to do this, the article doesn't
mention any. Now I'm imagining that it wasn't tied to any specific religion or
prophecy, but just the concept of time somehow coming to a stop.

~~~
stuntkite
"Waiting for the end of time" could mean a lot of things to a lot of people
and there could be a translation issue as well. I can see what would motivate
someone to withdrawal like that with religious views or not. If someone finds
a way to live without the world and builds their own, I'm not sure it's a huge
issue and is potentially rational. Obviously I think the morality breaks down
with the agency and societal obligation to the children. Especially if they
aren't being educated, fed, and kept clean which TFA doesn't give specifics
on.

Hell, as a 10 year veteran remote software developer it some days I feel like
I'm already there. One time I spent a year where I didn't say anything out
loud to anyone. I got a cat and switched jobs and now I make sure to have more
pointless conversations when I get the opportunity with coworkers so I don't
go full hermit accidentally.

~~~
squiggleblaz
<i>Hell, as a 10 year veteran remote software developer it some days I feel
like I'm already there. One time I spent a year where I didn't say anything
out loud to anyone.</i>

How did you get food?

I'm married nowadays, but my mental health used to suffer after a long weekend
when there was usually a day or two when I didn't speak to anyone. Before
that, when I was living overseas and had ptsd and depression, I think I would
go a week without meaningful conversation (on occasion two weeks, if a certain
event was cancelled), but I would buy food or something most days that would
at least involve a half comprehended exchange "(hi) hi (some amount of money
please) thanks (receipt?) no thanks (nice day)". These were at least useful
since my tone of voice varied - sometimes I sounded happier.

Do you cope a lot better through that than me, or was your mental health in
decline at the time?

~~~
morningseagulls
>> One time I spent a year where I didn't say anything out loud to anyone.

> How did you get food?

Not the parent, but this isn't hard: self-checkouts are common these days, and
even if you take food deliveries, you don't pay the delivery person directly,
you pay through the app.

------
mysterypie
On a lark, I went to try and find this house on Google's satellite view. The
article says that the "farm is outside the village of Ruinerwold and is
accessible by a bridge over a canal." I discovered that there are lots of
bridges, lots of canals, thousands of farms within a 20km radius of the town.
We need an aerial image search tool that figures out where you took that
snapshot.

------
mifeng
Haha his first act was not to ask for help, but rather he "ordered five beers
and drunk them."

~~~
dang
Trauma makes people do all kinds of things.

------
yread
Of course it happened in Drenthe!

~~~
rambojazz
Why?

~~~
nizmow
Drenthe has a reputation in the Netherlands as being a somewhat backwards
region in the middle of nowhere. This isn't really helping the reputation. :)

A common "meme" is to claim Drenthe doesn't exist.

~~~
dagw
_somewhat backwards region in the middle of nowhere_

I love how in The Netherlands the "middle of nowhere" is a 90 minute drive
from the capital :)

~~~
squiggleblaz
I'm pretty sure in Australia if you drove 90 seconds from the capital you'd
(still) be in the middle of nowhere.

~~~
morningseagulls
>I'm pretty sure in Australia if you drove 90 seconds from the capital you'd
(still) be in the middle of nowhere.

Lol. The capital _is_ in the middle of nowhere, that's why. You need to drive
a few hours northeast of the capital to get to somewhere (i.e. Sydney).

------
11235813213455
Probably someone who managed to brain-wash them or worse

The farm looks nice and abundant though, I'd love to live self-sufficiently à
la Rob Greenfield, aside from my main remote job

~~~
rossdavidh
...but not just in the basement

------
hn_throwaway_99
Can't wait until one of them moves to NYC and they have all sorts of zany
adventures!

------
aaroninsf
So... it really is the end, then.

------
masterjack
Ruining the good name of Ruinerwold

~~~
BjoernKW
The name probably means something like "weald in (or by) the dale".

------
dmix
2010 conspiracy theorists I'm assuming... given they've been there 9 years.

~~~
mike_hock
LOL, that's actually somewhat plausible considering how many nuts there were
back then believing the world would end.

"Plausible" in the context of TFA, of course, if we're gonna go ahead and
believe it, for the sake of argument.

I mean, there's not a lot of information to go off, either. The article adds
zero additional information (relevant information, I don't care how many beers
he drank) over the first paragraph, so all we know is contained in that one
sentence. Since the family seems to have been liberated, it would have been
interesting to know what actually happened there and how they were convinced
not to leave the farm. Shouldn't have been to hard to ask, right?

~~~
bluGill
The media probably isn't being given access to the victims to ask those
questions. The police are certainly asking such questions, but I assume they
are not allowed to talk (in the US they are not allowed to talk for various
good reasons, I don't know the specific situation there)

------
gok
> Bar owner Chris Westerbeek described how a man had come in, ordered five
> beers and drunk them. "Then I had a chat with him and he revealed he had run
> away and needed help... "

Man has got his priorities straight.

~~~
rossdavidh
If you haven't talked to a stranger in 9 years, and back then you were a
child, it might take 5 beers to get ready to talk about your situation.

~~~
supakeen
The 25-year old would've been 16 when they were locked up which makes it all
the more weird, a rebellious teen!

~~~
Scarblac
Actually nine years ago, 16 was the drinking age in the Netherlands. Now it's
18.

------
ydnaclementine
Actually weirder than Kimmy Schmidt

~~~
soylentcola
Hopefully not as weird as "Dogtooth"...blech.

------
tsumnia
The only issue I have is that headline is very click-baity, making you think
this is some crazy family cult or something. Its weird, but not Texas Chainsaw
Massacre / Heaven's Gate weird.

The article doesn't detail anything other than they lived "underground". A
child moving into the basement of their house lives "underground". You can
design homes that go underground.

Furthermore, the 25-year-old went to the pub, not to the police or anywhere.
If he was being held against his will, I doubt the pubs the first place you
go.

~~~
Scarblac
The father and six kids hadn't been allowed out for nine years. If this isn't
a cult, it's a huge abduction story.

The 25 year old was amazed at the sight of a pub and told them that daylight
was very bad for him, that he was only able to get out that night and that he
couldn't go back anymore. Apparently he was astonished that there were still
any other people in the world.

I think the idea of going to the police was completely alien to him.

~~~
morningseagulls
>The father and six kids hadn't been allowed out for nine years. If this isn't
a cult, it's a huge abduction story.

It's now been reported[0] that the father was an ex-member of the Unification
Church[1]:

> _Local television station RTV Drenthe earlier said the Austrian man,
> identified only as Josef B, the father and the captive family were all part
> of South Korea’s controversial Unification Church, dubbed “Moonies” after
> their late founder Sun Myung Moon._

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/17/dutch-
police-a...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/17/dutch-police-
arrest-father-of-family-held-at-farm-against-will)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_movement)

