
An Antique Toaster That's Better Than Today’s [video] - CaliforniaKarl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y
======
tompccs
There's a simple reason why this toaster was discontinued, and that's because
it can't be made from commodity components which are used by all toaster
manufacturers, as well as in a variety of other domestic appliances.

Plus, assembly looks quite intricate and probably highly manual.

It's beautiful, sure, but go and buy a toaster today and see how much premium
people are willing to pay for a designer brand with no functional advantage.

Sadly toasters all work "well enough". This is a textbook example of great
engineering being trumped by globalised economics and fickle consumers.

~~~
denton-scratch
Toasters do not all "work well enough". Shout if you have a toaster that you
bought less than 5 years ago, that is still working. I think they're supposed
to start failing after a year or two.

[Edit: if it's older than ten years, say how old - they made them better back
in the olden daze]

These devices are sold for ten euros/dollars, or so. You really can't do good
product design to that sort of price point. People expect to have to "recycle"
them.

I bought a toaster for which you can order replacement heater elements, or a
new timer. You can dismantle it and reassemble it with a normal electrician's
screwdriver. The timer is clockwork. The whole thing's very steampunk.

It cost about 8 times as much as a "disposable" toaster. I don't know if it
was a good deal; I'll tell you in a few decades. But if I don't have to bother
with replacing it, from my POV that will be money well-spent; I'm sick of
replacing stuff that should still be working. I'm sick of "hardware" that's
really made of tissue-paper. And I'm sick of furniture that's made of wood-
chips.

</rant>

~~~
ImprovedSilence
Right. It’s unreal how hard it is to find decent shit built to last, and don’t
tell me I’m not willing to pay a premium for it, because I am willing. What I
don’t like buying is shit branded as upscale high quality that is really the
same garbage underneath.

I’m sure there a number of different elements at play here, but one aspect
I’ve seen happen time and again is private equity buying out a company and
using that strong brand to make progressively shittier and shittier goods, for
the same or higher price, while still retaining enough critical mass mindshare
that the brand is still “quality”.

~~~
denton-scratch
Yeah, they did this with all the good British bicycle brands. Raleigh, Dawes
and so on; they were good bikes. Nobody makes good bikes in the UK any more.
The good bike makers got bought by Chinese companies, and the results are
crap. Get a USA bike. Trek are good value.

~~~
nikau
Trek makes 99% of its bicycles overseas.

~~~
nickbarnwell
As do 99% of bicycle manufacturers producing CF frames - the expertise and
manufacturing base are primarily in Taiwan, and everyone from Trek to Canyon
are sourcing from the same few people. There are some boutique brands still
doing lugged carbon builds that may be assembled in the USA with the AL
components manufacturer here as well, but they'll be more expensive and worse
performing models for the crowd who hasn't moved on from their "steel is real"
phase.

------
ken
3 months ago, I wrote a mini-rant in response to this video about how this is
the Worst Toaster Ever Made:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20177007](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20177007)

I stand by every word I wrote. I'd rather use a propane torch. It'd be quicker
and easier and safer.

~~~
war1025
In the follow-up video he goes through how to adjust the thermostat and spring
tension. So maybe your toaster was just adjusted wrong?

Maybe also just an example of something that's "too clever by half" [1]

My own mini-rant: We got a KitchenAid mixer for our wedding and I think it's
the worst mixer I've ever used. We had a Sunbeam growing up and it was
superior in every way.

[1] [https://www.epsilontheory.com/too-clever-by-
half/](https://www.epsilontheory.com/too-clever-by-half/)

~~~
linsomniac
I'm curious about the KitchenAid you got: Which one? Looks like the current
Sunbeam mixers are fairly "cheap", compared to the KitchenAid "bowl lift"
ones.

We have a bowl lift and I love it, though that's with an asterisk... Ours is a
~7 year old one (maybe 10), and the drivetrain is pretty crappy. The accessory
port is driven by some really nasty looking sintered metal gears, and some
teeth on ours broke, despite never having used the accessory ("PTO"?) port. I
ended up taking it apart, I could get replacements for everything but I ended
up disabling the accessory port because that part of the drivetrain was so
sketchy. The rest of it was just fine.

The newer ones, as far as I can tell from a disassembly video I watched, are
vastly superior in the drivetrain. Ours, has been a real workhorse since I did
this fix. I used grease with a lot of molybdenum content, but should have used
something rated for high temp, because at one point a few months ago my wife
had it smoking.

~~~
war1025
We have the tilt one and not the bigger lift model. I eventually realized that
the reason it couldn't even break egg yolks was that the set screw was
adjusted wrong so the beater couldn't even get low enough to do anything
useful.

It may be great once you get used to it. I mainly discovered that we don't
have any need for a mixer.

The new Sunbeam mixers really are crap. My mom bought a replacement since
something gave out on hers that must have been from the late 70s / early 80s.
I think she used it once or twice and it either gave out or didn't have enough
gusto to even mix up a batch of cookies. She got a KitchenAid that she feels
similarly disappointed with as I do.

The thing that was great about the Sunbeam style mixer is that the beaters
were at the back end of the bowl and a little rubber nub on one of the beaters
"walks" the bowl around and shoves everything through the beaters, so
everything gets mixed up really evenly. Plus you can grab the side of the bowl
and move it back and forth to break stuff up better.

The other advantage is that the front of bowl is always open for pouring
things in or scraping things off the sides.

The planetary gear thing the KitchenAid does just seems weird to me and
doesn't seem to actually mix things thoroughly. Probably just a learning curve
I've never bothered to go through...

------
adrianmonk
It's awesome how this toaster works, but for practical purposes, I would
prefer a toaster that does not auto-start.

One of the challenges of cooking is juggling multiple things so the food is
all ready at the same time. Being able to do steps in advance helps with that.
This actually kind of matters for toast because freshly toasted bread is a lot
better than cold toast.

So it's helpful to be able to take bread out of the package, stick it in the
toaster, and put loaf of bread back where it belongs when convenient, then
come back later and start the final step (actually toasting) at the exact
right time.

(On a side note, in actual fact, I have never had a toaster. A toaster oven
does everything a toaster does and more. You can make a hot sandwich with
melted cheese, for example.)

~~~
__s
Had a toaster that would detect when you put bread in & start. Issue: walk
away & if you don't take the toast out within a dozen seconds of it finishing,
it'd go on to toast toast

~~~
hinkley
This one has a latch that prevents that. To fire the second time you have to
remove the toast (it’s mentioned near the end of the video).

------
Aloha
I'm really happy to see that a Technology Connections video made HN, this guy
produces really entertaining and easy to digest videos about technology most
people don't give too much thought to. While I can't say I learned anything
new most of the time (This video and the one about TOSLINK are exceptions), I
was entertained and can use these videos to send to someone who doesn't have a
huge technical background on stuff.

------
lampenrad
Very neat design, but there are highly advanced toasters nowadays. There just
doesn‘t seem a market for them in the West (yet?).

Bloomberg recently covered high-end Japanese toasters:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-16/this-
japa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-16/this-japanese-
toaster-costs-270-it-only-makes-one-slice-at-a-time)

~~~
megaremote
There are high end toasters in the west. I feel like no one did any research
at all.

[https://www.toaster.org/glass-toasters/](https://www.toaster.org/glass-
toasters/)

~~~
Cytobit
I don't see any evidence that that site did comprehensive reviews and
analysis. Just a bunch of Amazon affiliate links.

------
lolinder
We actually have one of these, and it's absolutely brilliant. It's been in
constant use since my father-in-law was growing up, and yet it still works
flawlessly. I've never burnt a piece of toast with it.

It's kinda depressing that today our toasters are less useful and stop working
10x sooner.

~~~
emmelaich
Our family had one of these too. I remember it as being better and longer
lasting than any toaster I've had since.

And it lasted a loong time - 30 years or so.

------
shakna
I actually had one of these for a good long while. I was too terrified of it
to pull it apart and understand the mechanism, but it was a great example of
UX.

Removing just the step of pushing down and fast return actually did make me
appreciate it more.

But he is absolutely right when he pointed to the paper insulated wire as a
truly hideous and terrifying thing. My toaster did eventually burst into
flames, and that's about where I think the fire started. Hard to tell when
looking at twisted metal.

I think this is a great example of the kind of things that planned
obsolescence has killed. The design could probably have been improved, and the
safety brought up to modern standards, through research and iteration.

However, why invest in making a better toaster when you can sell a $2 worth of
toaster for $5 that will expire in less than two years?

~~~
userbinator
That's not regular paper. It's probably some sort of mica-asbestos composite
and definitely not flammable.

Fire is likely to be caused by bread crumbs, since otherwise there is nothing
combustible in the toaster (unlike the plastic-ful modern ones.)

------
Lio
I’m a massive fan of my classic Dualit 4 slice toaster. (Look I’m British we
like toast, alright?)

I was all ready to pooh-pooh this new fangled design from the 60s vs Dualit’s
classic design from 1952; it’s the Technics SL1200 of the international toast
scene.

Honestly though this design is ingenious! Video is well worth watching
(assuming you like toasted bread comestibles).

Now if you’ll excuse I’m off for some afternoon crumpet.

~~~
combatentropy
> my classic Dualit 4 slice toaster

\--- which is around $300 and still selling. I think we need to rethink the
reasons that the Sunbeam was discontinued.

~~~
scoot
It sounds expensive, but we've had ours for over 20 years, and I expect it to
last another 20 (or beyond) and look just as classy.

It's mechanically simple, easily serviceable (four screws), and spares are
readily available.

------
nyolfen
this channel is truly excellent, strongly recommended if old electronics are
even kind of interesting to you, and still worth a shot if they aren't. in
particular i'd recommend this video about the sony trinitron:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFhzGEBQlk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aFhzGEBQlk)

~~~
rzzzt
I can also heartily recommend watching Alec's videos. He also has a second
channel for the "DVD extra"-kind of content that doesn't quite fit into the
original videos, or is cut due to time constraints; I find these also
interesting (link leads to "Filming CRTs", demonstrated on the Trinitron used
in parent's video):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0IC0bu3dg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0IC0bu3dg)

------
modeless
"Now you know why you were taught to never stick a knife down a toaster"

That's the most interesting part of this video to me. I was definitely taught
this, and I never understood why because modern toasters don't have this
problem (where the insides of the toaster may be connected to a live wire even
when off). Funny how this kind of cultural knowledge persists after it's no
longer relevant.

It's crazy to see just how unsafe appliances used to be. People maybe don't
take that safety differential into account when lamenting the complexity and
unreliability of modern stuff.

One other safety thing: it looks like this toaster may not raise small toast
high enough to easily grab. Most toaster levers let you manually raise the
toast higher than normal to retrieve it. Without a lever you are forced to
reach into the hot slot and risk burns or electrocution to retrieve your toast
before it cools.

~~~
tbyehl
Toaster tongs. I don't remember encountering a toaster that could lift while I
was growing up... but toaster tongs were a hit at every Tupperware party.

------
MertsA
Yeesh, looks like an antique fire hazard to me. Also, unless the video is
mistaken, if that complex linkage fails or the inner heating element fails
then the thermostat on it is going to be blocked by that bit on the bottom of
the bread carriage that's meant to block it while the carriage is lowered.
That seems like a good way to get it stuck in the on position so if someone
just looked at the toaster, they might not even realize that it's still on
because the bread isn't lowered. What happens if something flammable like a
letter slides off of something unnoticed and falls into the toaster? Even if
someone is home and awake the thing moves slowly and is downright silent when
it turns on and lowers the toast. The first sign of something going wrong
might very well be flames.

This thing is a burn hazard, shock hazard, and fire hazard all in one.

~~~
sjg007
Why would you have a letter near your toaster? Also why not unplug it when
done?

~~~
koolba
> Why would you have a letter near your toaster?

The standard American household with 2.3 kids has _everything_ on the counter
near the toaster.

For the "oven" style toasters there's an significant chance that there's
something made out of either paper or plastic atop the metal roof ready to
melt as well.

> Also why not unplug it when done?

And plug it back in every morning? That'd be unnecessarily annoying.

~~~
walshemj
There is this new fangled technology called a switch - or can you not turn
American sockets off at the wall.

~~~
astura
You can

~~~
MertsA
That's the exception, not the rule in America. The only widespread use of
switched outlets was back when floor lamps were much more common around the
70s. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a switched outlet on a kitchen
countertop other than the one below it for a garbage disposal.

------
twic
As a Brit watching this video, i had to stop and google a couple of
Americanisms:

"unpolarized cord" \- good god, you mean you can plug most American appliances
in either way round, and so random parts of them will be live? This is the
worst country on earth!

"toaster strudels" \- correction, this is the greatest country on earth.

~~~
Aloha
Pretty much every modern appliance is polarized.

The key to note, in most houses when the unpolarized stuff was new, there were
alarmingly few ground sources nearby, so the fact that one side of the
appliance was hot, doesn't actually matter that much - so while it's safer
now, it wasn't that unsafe then. I'd also point out, these choices make more
sense when you consider the lower voltage of US power distribution.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Pretty much every modern European mains powered device is double insulated so
it doesn't matter which pole is live and which is neutral.

Some countries do have polarized connectors (UK, some Polish, France, Belgium,
etc.) but many do not. However supposedly competent electricians sometimes
connect them the wrong way round anyway or omit the earth or both as I
discovered in France last year.

See this web page for a convenient list of mains connectors and countries that
use them: [https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-
sockets/](https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/)

------
Too
As ingenious as this is, can you truly call it simple? I mean just look at the
patent alone, it has over 120 listed items and the real production piece
probably even more. It is mechanically incredibly complex, combining all kinds
of levers, materials, linkages, thermal expansion, small tolerances,
reflecting radiation, latches, bimetallic switches. Contrast this with a basic
design which can probably be made with 2 or 3 moving parts only: the spring,
some latch and a time/heat-controlled relay.

Assuming you'd want to replicate this thing with modern equipment, would it be
cheaper and simpler with a servo and a µC?

------
XorNot
Loved this video. The mechanical design of this thing (the solely mechanical
design) is a thing of beauty.

------
joshu
I kinda want one. I wonder if people will start buying and modding them? I
can/t wait for /r/MechanicalToasters

------
Shivetya
The vintage toaster you want, no bagels, is a Toastmaster 1B16. my parents
have my grandfather's toaster of this model and I have one from ebay. Perfect
toast each time. Sunbeam made a similar one though it had less adjustment as
seen in the video but I think it was inferior to the Toastmaster; I have both
and both still work

Please note, whomever is using the name now is certainly not making a toaster
of the same quality.

they weigh a good amount but that tends to be the case of anything from the
forties and fifties.

Example auction of a 1B16 [https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-
Toastmaster-1B16-Automatic-...](https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-
Toastmaster-1B16-Automatic-
Toaster/283620320392?hash=item420916a488:g:RT0AAOSwEtpdhSdn)

Great site for toasters
[https://toastercentral.com/toaster40s.htm](https://toastercentral.com/toaster40s.htm)

------
azinman2
Except how do you stop it early?

~~~
Retric
There is probably a button, but at worst unplugging it works as toast is
raised when the coils cool.

~~~
ken
There is no button. You can sometimes make it abort by slamming the intensity
dial all the way to the left. But yes, in general you have to unplug it, which
is horribly inconvenient.

------
soheil
It seems like modern toasters try to accomplish so many requirements which are
boring and dull at the expense of giving up on ingenuity and beautiful design.
Take for example bagel mode, nearly all modern cheap toasters support that,
this adds complexity and reduces viability of a rather simpler yet elegant
design. Manufacturers wanting to satisfy these rather mundane requirements in
order to not only appeal to as many consumers as possible, but also avoid a
type of boycott because product X cannot do task Y, thus it's inferior
marketing arguments, they forego engineering elegance.

~~~
soheil
This could be a type of The Tyranny of the Minority [0] having to satisfy so
many small yet forcefully demanded items.

[0] [https://areomagazine.com/2019/04/02/the-tyranny-of-the-
minor...](https://areomagazine.com/2019/04/02/the-tyranny-of-the-minority-and-
how-to-prevent-it/)

------
harryposner
I don't think he's right that you could implement a bagel mode on that toaster
by just running the center heating element. Both heating elements are
necessary for the toaster to function (which he mentions!). You need to run
the center element to drive the bread lifter, but you also need to run the
outer element to heat the side of the bread facing the bimetallic strip. You
can't put the bimetallic strip on the center side of the bread, since it needs
direct exposure to the heat radiating off the bread, and the coiled center
heating element would get in the way.

~~~
tuukkah
Additionally, there must not be a hole in the center of the bagel as that
would cause the heat from one side to radiate directly to the bimetal on the
other side.

------
gnicholas
I inherited one of these from my grandfather. I always thought it was elegant
because there was no manual lever, but I had no idea how complicated the
mechanism is (current through a wire heats it so it expands, triggering a
series of levers). After watching the first part of the video I wanted to get
it back out and start using it again. Then he described the paper insulation
around the wire, and I decided not to. Maybe in a few years my kid and I will
watch his remediation video and give it a try. Seems like a pretty serious
fire (and electrocution) hazard as-is!

------
wkjagt
A while ago, I wrote (1) about an old toaster I had bought at a thrift store 7
years earlier and that I’d been using daily since. Now, 5 years later, I’m
still using this same toaster, and it still out-toasts most newer toasters. I
really believe it’s getting harder to find quality products that are built
with longevity and repairability in mind.

(1) [https://medium.com/@wkjagt/i-love-my-
toaster-d9b335d4abf9](https://medium.com/@wkjagt/i-love-my-
toaster-d9b335d4abf9)

------
robocat
The nichrome wire is under tension in this device.

When the nichrome wire breaks (eventual common failure I think), wouldn't that
cause a high risk of the live wire touching the body of the toaster?

~~~
retroriffic
Note that the host isn’t saying that this 60s toaster _as designed_ is better
in every way— rather, that a modernized version of this design would be better
than toasters designed today using the latest electronics.

------
spats1990
The left-hand slice of toast when it comes back up at 1:19. >:(

Good video though. Pushing the toast down 3-4 times before realising the damn
thing is unplugged is my signature move.

------
denormalfloat
That is a lot of moving parts for a toaster. It seems like even a few crumbs
falling into the wrong spot would jam the falling/raising mechanism.

------
radicalbyte
On a slight tangent: when I saw the title I thought "I'll probably have to
post a link to that Technology Connections film showing that natty old
toaster".

His channel is really interesting; even if like me you find his style a little
irritating at first it really grows on you when you see that he really knows
what he's talking about. One of my favorite channels next to Jeff Cavaliere
(Athlean-X).

------
staplor
It's not as if similar toasters don't exist. I have a similar one in my
kitchen.

[https://www.kitchenaid.com/countertop-
appliances/toasters/tw...](https://www.kitchenaid.com/countertop-
appliances/toasters/two-slice/p.pro-line-series-2-slice-automatic-
toaster.kmt2203ca.html)

~~~
opencl
There are modern toasters with the auto drop functionality but none that I'm
aware of that sense the temperature of the bread like the old sunbeam does.

------
starpilot
Get a toaster oven. Does everything a toaster can, better. Reheat cookies,
make small baked goods, and just easier to use.

~~~
wyclif
I've used both frequently, and I don't think the toaster oven is easier. It's
just better for things that are not slices of bread or bagels, so I'd concede
it's a more general kitchen appliance. To toast bread in a toaster oven, I
need to open the glass door, then position the bread on the tray, close the
door, and then turn the dial. Then I have to open and close the door after
toasting.

With a toaster, it's just drop the bread in and push the lever down. Then pull
the toast out when done. It may not seem like a significant number of saved
steps, but if you're doing it over and over again it adds up.

------
pkulak
Knew who this was before I clicked. Do yourself a favor and browse his other
videos: there's absolute gold in there.

------
switch007
Pfffft toasters. Pan-fried toast is the best toast! This is _irrefutably_
true, because you can add butter to a pan and not a toaster! In case you
aren't convinced: isn't a grilled cheese sandwich one of the best uses of
bread? Case closed. Throw out your toasters and bathe in the wonderous joy of
pan-fried toast.

------
dmitriid
The Swedish company Husqvarna used to make toasters that would carefully lower
your bred, close the lid, and then carefully bring it back up much like the
toaster in the video.

Unfortunately, Ic an't a video of it, or even proper product descriptions (it
looks like they discontinued toasters). And yeah, it wasn't as consistent :)

------
gumby
Toasters like that are still for sale. I have one I bought at Target -- hard
to get more mass market than that.

I recently moved into a smaller space so put the toaster in my garage and just
use the oven like we did when I was a kid. My watch tells me when to pull it
out!

------
kaendfinger
Highly Recommend this channel btw, lots of quality videos on old technology.

------
innagadadavida
Anyone remembers the afterdark screensaver from the PC era? It looks like this
toaster was used for the flying toaster. Amazing product, pity today’s stuff
is just built so poorly.

------
emcrazyone
I have this toaster and LOVE it.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=crc8n7D4kYg](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=crc8n7D4kYg)

~~~
robocat
Does anyone know how Breville are making really usable appliances?

I bought a microwave oven which has a very good UI (buttons, knobs, layout,
display).

Also: why do I fear the UI of anything with a German brand name?

------
SubiculumCode
My grandma is still using the toaster she bought int he 60's. My mom is still
using the same microwave she bought in the 80's, crank dial and all.

------
Krasnol
I like how the first time he puts toast into it, the left one comes out
charcoal black before the cut. I wonder what happened there.

------
Tokkemon
I love this channel so much. Well done Alec!

------
dwighttk
So, you have to toast two pieces at once?

~~~
pg_bot
No, if you have one piece of toast you put it in the slot that has the lever.

~~~
dwighttk
ah, I was trying to stay around in the video until he got to that, but even at
1.75x I couldn't handle it.

------
EdgarVerona
That is pretty brilliant.

------
abootstrapper
I love this guys videos.

------
ubertoop
It's antiquated. My toaster uses machine learning to determine the "doneness"
of the bread. Thereby allowing for breads of variant moisture levels to be
brought to the same level of doneness, independent of surface heat.

Couple that with the fact that my toaster is also connected via 802.11g to the
INTERNET where, naturally, I can view the toast progress via an iOS or Android
app. A live feed of the toast progress is streamed to the app, and I can
either cancel early or allow the bread to finish toasting. Upon finishing, a
push notification is sent to my phone. Nice.

Lastly, and this is probably the highlight feature... I can share my toasting
status to social. With the click of a button I can share a screen shot of my
toast, WITH my choice of camera filter. Nothing says "ive got it better than
you" than a picture of a perfectly toasted piece of toast with a christmas
spirit filter.

~~~
drivingmenuts
It’s all fun and games until someone hacks your toaster to start toasting
penii onto the surface.

~~~
dsamarin
I would pay good money for a toaster that would print my own uploaded designs
into

------
pooya13
We are approaching The Toaster Event Horizon.

------
paulcole
18 minutes for that. Jesus Christ.

------
benj111
Someone should introduce this guy to the Teasmaid, I think he'd be equally
impressed

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teasmade](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teasmade)

