
Ask PG & other successful folks: how did your life change after FU money? - resdirector
Here are some questions that I find myself pondering from time to time as I code.  To those who have achieved "FU money" (I use this term loosely):<p>* Has your life changed in unexpected ways?<p>* Has there been any change in the way you interact with strangers?<p>* Has the number of things you <i>have</i> to endure increased or decreased?<p>* And is "FU money" all its cracked up to be?  e.g., is your life an order of magnitude more enjoyable now, or is it pretty much the same etc?
======
pg
I've been meaning to write about this one day. There are some things that
change. For example, you learn to distinguish problems that can be solved with
money from those that can't. You can buy your way out of a lot of schleps.

Life doesn't get an order of magnitude more enjoyable, because you still can't
buy your way out of the most serious types of problems, but a lot of
annoyances are removed.

The best part is what I thought would be the best part: not having to worry
about money. Before Viaweb I'd been living pretty hand to mouth, doing
occasional consulting. It felt like treading water, in the sense that while it
wasn't hard, I knew in the back of my mind that I'd drown if I stopped.
Getting rich felt like reaching the shore.

One thing you learn when you get rich, though, is how few of your problems
were caused by not being rich. When you can do whatever you want, you get a
variant of the terror induced by the proverbial blank page. There are a lot of
people who think the thing stopping them from writing that great novel they
plan to write is the fact that their job takes up all their time. In fact
what's stopping 99% of them is that writing novels is hard. When the job goes
away, they see how hard.

~~~
nonce42
One thing I genuinely want to know is how much money it takes to be "rich" in
Silicon Valley. In my experience, $5M yields a slightly better but still
basically middle-class life. I suspect a lot of people are underestimating how
much they need to reach the FU level.

~~~
bl4k
If you plan on staying on to live in the valley, $20-30M. I have many friends
who are worth $3-5M and they do not consider themselves even close to rich in
the valley. Housing and schooling in Palo Alto are very expensive. $5M is
nowhere near enough to buy a really nice house and then take it easy for the
rest of your life - sad to say, but true.

At least in the valley, most people still live below their means. I find that
on the East Coast and Southern CA that those with expensive lifestyles are
usually heavily burdened by debt. There are many many wealthy people in the
valley who live in simple apartments and walk everywhere, not needing the
flashy car or flashy clothes to justify their existence and place in society.

~~~
_delirium
I know a few people who consider themselves to be in "FU money" territory, in
the sense that they don't have to ever work unless they want to, and have
_way_ less than $20m. It depends on how you want to live, to some extent. The
Valley isn't all _that_ expensive if you don't require a big house in Palo
Alto or Los Gatos, and especially if you're looking to rent. If you set your
budget at, say, $50,000/year for housing, i.e. you can afford to pay a bit
over $4000/mo rent, there are a lot of options. There are quite nice
apartments or even townhouses in S.F. for that money, or reasonably large
houses in Santa Clara.

------
ttol
Be prepared for it mentally and emotionally _before_ getting FU money. It's
not dissimilar to winning the lottery.

Most of you reading this site is either working extremely hard to get FU money
or has it already. If you're not prepared for it, it will just amplify your
worst nightmares and habits, and there's a good chance the meaning of many
things in life, including life itself, will disappear. Plan for a use/purpose
for the FU money.

The journey is sometimes better than the destination, so make sure that once
you arrive at the destination, it is only one stop of a longer journey. Here's
a story of a millionaire who liked the journey much more than the destination,
so gave away all the money to restart the journey.
[http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SmartSpending/blog/page...](http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SmartSpending/blog/page.aspx?post=1618309&_blg=1,1618309)

After you've bought/rented all your material wants, you will feel an empty
feeling and ask yourself, "that's it?", unless you have a purpose greater than
yourself. Belong to a higher cause, whether it's joining a local non-profit or
helping others (or start a yc? ;-). Money is a means to an end, not the end
itself. Beyond buying power, money has no value unless it is
used/invested/earmarked.

Here are some example people who were unprepared and how they used their FU
money: <http://www.oddee.com/item_97101.aspx>

EDIT: Not sure why I'm being downvoted. Yes, we can talk about the great
positives of FU money and the awesome power/material good it brings, but not
about the potential downsides it'll bring if you don't keep it in check or
plan for it in advance? For what it's worth, I've started several companies,
each did well, and the points I've raised above were important for me (for
belonging to a higher purpose, I sat on the board of a non-profit and helped
raise money). There was a time when I thought I reached my "destination", only
to feel that I had arrived at an deserted island.

~~~
d_r
I'm not sure why someone would downvote you. Having a journey _is_ key, and
this is why "FU money" would be useful. Given a lucky $5,000,000 lottery win,
many people on HN would probably have a chance to leave the day job and
finally take a shot at accomplishing their dream (perhaps building the next
amazing geo-tagging-social-network, or opening a store, or whatever it might
be.) Without a dream, people will just spend money on toys that seem far too
obvious, such as fancy cars.

Simple money management skills help as well.

~~~
gaius
There are a ton of stories of lottery winners who blew the lot in surprisingly
little time, and have literally nothing to show for it.

The problem seems to be if you suddenly have x money, you start to live as if
you have 10x.

~~~
sree_nair
I hear a lot of people saying this. Do you have any data points links for the
same?. Just curious.

~~~
gaius
Not any hard numbers on % of lottery winners or anything, but stories in the
papers are common:

[http://www.metro.co.uk/news/813314-top-5-lottery-winners-
who...](http://www.metro.co.uk/news/813314-top-5-lottery-winners-who-lost-
everything)

<http://loanscreditcards.co.uk/tag/uk-lottery-winners/>

------
aaronsw
In the short-term, my life was much worse. I spent a lot of really painful
time struggling to come to grips with my situation.

After that was over, things went pretty much back to normal. There's now a
low-level fear all the time of losing all the money (something PG's written
about recently) and I'm constantly worried I've invested it badly. I didn't
make any dramatic life changes so people don't really treat me differently.

The biggest thing is that it provides a sort of mental backup -- when I'm
feeling bad about myself or about to do something risky, I can tell myself not
to worry.

My sense is that it bears out what the happiness research says: dispositional
factors are much more important than situational ones. PG was an abnormally
happy person before he got rich and he's still abnormally happy. I was pretty
miserable before and I'm still miserable. (The reasons are more complicated
but the result is I prefer my misery.)

~~~
jacksoncarter
Did you tend to worry a lot before you had the money? You mention the misery
is consistent. Is worry part of that.

I think coming into money is pretty much like losing a limb or experiencing a
tragedy. After a certain period of time, the person who has experienced the
tragedy goes back to where they were, mentally, before the tragedy. Same with
lots of money, eventually they return to their norm.

~~~
sreitshamer
Lots of money brings lots of freedom, which can bring a lot of
instability/chaos. You lose all the structure that you had from the
constraints of working for a living. If the instability (and resultant stress)
is too much, going back to "the way you were" could be a relief.

------
ErrantX
I'm in no way in the league of pg or others but I might have an interesting
story to share.

While at university I was pretty skint (as students are). Anyway, long story
short I happened to "start a company" that never took off but did take the
interest of another competitor - who then bought me out (it never came to
anything from them - they were "super funded" and had a not-that-good
team....).

Anyway; it wasn't a _lot_ of cash considering - but compared to what I was
living on...

I immediately went and bought a silly car which ate up petrol and insurance
money (tip 1: don't buy a really nice car unless you drive a lot, now I run a
14 year old Peugeot and it is more reliable, economical and fun :)).

This sort of thing (silly spending) went on for about a month until I was
stocked up on all sorts of technology porn (in fairness to myself I did splash
money on my friends/flatmates quite liberally). I can't exactly remember what
made me stop but did eventually realise that I was acting silly ;)

Even when I stopped spending it was hard to avoid buying stuff I saw and
trivially wanted - there was no sense of ownership on the expensive items any
more (compared to the 32" TV I had bought a few months earlier and saved for
for nearly a year) and they never really made me happy.

Long story short; most of it went into Ebay, I put the money into a long term
fund and finished up Uni as a poor student.

Two years later the money is still there; I managed to find a job that rocks
and pays pretty good (considering). I've got over the need for money/items and
have (in my mind) a much nicer outlook on life and "stuff" :)

So, yes, having "large amounts of cash" (relatively speaking) did change me -
but not in the way I expected :)

And the best bit is that I have money for a house, wedding ring (hopefully
:)), kids etc... in the future if things don't work out.

------
DanielBMarkham
The more I think about this -- really think about it -- the more I become
convinced that anonymity and a small amount of recurring income, along with a
reasonably-frugal life, is probably the best outcome in life.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not saying to be poor. I'm saying that the more
your income becomes visible -- past just having a low-key life -- the more it
gets in the way of things, both for you and your family.

That can either mean living in a room where they shove a couple pizzas under
the door every day or living in a modest 4BR house in a mediocre neighborhood.
It's the visibility and the host of hidden entrapments that come with that
visibility. What I didn't realize when I was younger that this problem of
visibility isn't just limited to how others view your wealth -- it's really
more a problem of of you view it.

~~~
jaxn
As long as you are content there forever. Like the research says, once you
take the worry about money out of the equation, money no longer becomes much
of a motivator.

Kind of makes it hard to work or do other ventures.

~~~
robryan
If money was you only motivator in the first place.

~~~
jaxn
Eating and having shelter was a motivator before, not money. Once you don't
have to worry about those anymore (i.e. don't need a paycheck, feasibly never
needing another paycheck).

------
jeb
Pretty much the same life, the toys are just a bit bigger. One thing I've
found though - girls don't care about the money in the bank. Maybe they care
about if you drive a big car or something, but just spending a lot does not
seem to result in the ladies being significantly more impressed.

Interaction with other people is more of a i-don't-give-a-shit-who-you-are
anymore. Take it or leave it is much easier.

Life is more relaxed - that constant stress of being broke is gone. But there
are other problems that come up when some problems go away. Stuff that
appeared smaller before (how do I get people to like me, for example), now
seem more important.

~~~
yummyfajitas
_One thing I've found though - girls don't care about the money in the bank._

Wherever you are meeting girls, I want to go there.

My experience in an NJ bar a week or two ago: I was talking with a coder
friend of mine about my job. This was a geeky conversation with words like
"latency", "queues" and "atomic operations", as well as "lost $BIGNUM in half
a second", rather than a manly conversation about "parachuting into darfur to
deliver aid." A guido girl at the bar visibly perked up and came over to talk
and asked if I was a trader within 5 minutes of conversation.

(Note: I don't have fuck you money, though my casual reaction to losing
$BIGNUM might suggest I do.)

~~~
rdl
This is a great point against living in NYC metro area. I doubt you'd suffer
this in Boston (Academia seems to be the dominant life form), SFBA (tech; a
trader would be a lot less sexy than the founder of a tech startup even pre-fu
money), or Seattle or Portland (environmentalism? art? food?).

~~~
noname123
No. As someone who both have experienced both NYC and Boston urban living, I
can tell you that Boston is no better than NYC. Sure there are a lot more
schools in Boston, it's only the arbitrary scale of judgement has changed but
the intensity/consistency of judgement is still the same.

Whereas in NY, yuppie culture surrounds either the high-finance/media-
fashion/hipster type, Boston's culture is more on academic/engineering/townie-
pride. In some sense, I prefer NYC because at least everyone's honest and at
least it's a meritocracy of superficiality. You either gotta make six figures
or have the American Apparel attitude and look to be in the group. In Boston,
it's more like "of course, we are a open & accepting people," but "oh? you
don't go to grad school at Harvard/MIT/BU? You are involved in software/allied
health professions and don't have the holier-than-thou attitude? You are not
WASP or a white-washed minority and don't drink the vegan-hippie-liberal
ethos?" Haven't lived in Seattle/Portland extensively but my own superficial
judgment of these two cities while traveling there, is that the latent vegan-
hippie-liberal superficiality is even more rampant there.

~~~
nostrademons
This reminds me a lot of the "Messages that cities send" essay that PG wrote a
while ago. NYC's message was that you should be richer, Boston's is that you
should be smarter, Silicon Valley's is that you should be more powerful (in
the technocrat sense of the word) - and extending it out, Houston's is that
you should have a bigger house, Portland is that you should be more eco-
friendly, and D.C's is that you should be more powerful (in the political
sense of the word).

Maybe girls are evolutionarily wired to seek more "successful" men, and then
"success" is defined by the culture surrounding them.

------
lisper
> Has your life changed in unexpected ways?

Not really. The most unexpected thing is how much the same life is after FU
money than before. The main difference is that a lot more people line up to
try to take your money from you. One way or another you pretty much have to
deal with the same old shit.

> Has there been any change in the way you interact with strangers?

I probably feel a little less insecure, especially when I talk to other people
with money. But I don't think anything else has changed, at least I hope not.

> Has the number of things you have to endure increased or decreased?

The number of things I _have_ to endure has definitely decreased. In
particular, I don't have to stress out over making the choice between
"enduring" a job that I hate or going without a salary. But other problems
have arisen to replace those. I call these "nice problems to have", but they
are still problems.

> And is "FU money" all its cracked up to be? e.g., is your life an order of
> magnitude more enjoyable now, or is it pretty much the same etc?

Neither. Life is definitely better with FU money, but it is no panacea. FU
money gives you extra options, but the fundamentals have not changed: you are
still faced every morning with a choice of what to do with the resources you
have at hand. And even FU money has limits. It's amazing how fast you can
learn exactly where those limits are.

------
cwall
Here are some of the things I discovered after hitting it, and watch others do
the same:

1\. Getting rich makes you more of who you really are. If you're a jerk
underneath it all, you'll be a bigger jerk when you hit it big...and vice
versa.

2\. In terms of problems, you're squeezing on a balloon. It's easy to pay the
bills, but a whole new set of problems and hassles will present themselves.
It's just a new set of irritants. There's just as much pain, it just comes
from different sources.

3\. When you can have everything you want, you have to learn to control your
appetites. You can't imagine how much crap you buy when you can afford
everything. It's surprisingly hard for most people to control their spending
once they hit it.

4\. You'll turn into the First National Bank of Bill, but your loan standards
will be lower...and few people will ever pay you back.

5\. Old friendships will wither and some of them will die, no matter how hard
you try to maintain them. Jealousy is one reason. Subtile changes in your own
personality will be the other.

5\. If your pals aren't all in the same boat, and similarly rich, you'll have
no one to play with.

In short: Money is a tiger. You master it, or it masters you.

------
MisterWebz
I would appreciate it if people posting here would also tell us if they were
low/middle/upper class before they got wealthy/wealthier.

------
bpm140
I once read a fantastic interview with Douglas Adams back in the late 70s,
after Hitchhikers Guide had become successful in the UK, but prior to its
impending US release.

Both Adams and his interviewer knew that the author was about to come into A
LOT of money, but he didn't have it yet. The interviewer asked how he expected
his life to change and Douglas Adams said one of the most prescient things
I've ever read:

"The only thing that money changes is the size of your bills."

For instance, my wife and I always talked about traveling more, but after
selling my company, we continued to mainly talk about travel. It's just not
something we do a lot, even though money isn't an issue. Meanwhile, I've got
friends who managed to backpack around Asia and Europe all summer in college
when they were totally broke.

Money doesn't change who you are or how you live all that much.

------
dbjacobs
When I achieved something akin to FU money, there were the expected benefits
(i.e., greater freedom), but that freedom also strips away many excuses we
come to rely on.

For example, if you spend hours coding at the computer (because you love it),
that is now YOUR choice and it affects how the rest of your family will
perceive it because you can no longer claim that you NEED to spend that much
time. In fact, if you are not careful, you may end up with your family
controlling more of your time than you want.

You also go through a bit of an identity crisis. So much of your identity is
tied up in what you do. All of a sudden when you are at your kids soccer game,
casual conversation becomes more awkward as people inevitably ask "what do you
do?".

Put these together and you clearly need to come up with your next purpose
because otherwise you will have a heck of a time deciding how to spend your
time.

In the process of figuring out the planning and investing piece I became a CFP
and registered investment advisor (more of a multi-family office). I have now
seen a number of others go through the transition and can offer the following
observations for different levels of FU money.

< $10 million -- The focus stays mostly on the individual and family with the
money supporting their pursuits.

$10 - $50 million -- At this level there starts to be a strong pull between
wanting to support the family and wanting to create a lasting legacy. The pull
from these two directions can create a lot of stress depending on the person's
values and the values of the rest of their family (mainly spouse).

$50 million+ -- At this level the legacy becomes the focus. The responsibility
of making that money improve the world becomes paramount. You don't see
someone with this kind of money deciding to become a math teacher. In this
sense, someone with this much money is less free than someone with only $10
million who wont feel as strong an obligation to ensure their money gets put
to good use improving the world.

------
jacquesm
I'm going to think about answering this because it's going to take more than a
short comment, those are 4 really complicated questions.

The short answers are yes, yes, decreased, no and different.

The longer ones will take me a bit of time to put together.

~~~
jacquesm
Ok, it's up: <http://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=1512876>

------
MTC
Some points-

1\. I laughed when the gentleman said that $3mm would be enough money for him.
Anyone who says $3mm is enough will realize that whatever number they say is
"enough" is not enough once they reach it.

2\. Money doesn't make you happy. But if you're already happy and you have
money, it can make you happier.

3\. Money makes people pay more attention to you- especially people who didn't
pay attention to you before. People will say, "well Barack Obama would never
have shown up to your wedding before you sold your company for $1bb". Well no
sh!t. Why would he? Charities will call you. "Well the University never paid
attention to you back when you were poor". Universities and Charities are in
the business of raising money from individuals.. Why would they? This will be
tough for people without money to understand.

4\. Those who have sold their companies find that money is sometimes harder to
hold onto than it was to make in the first place. If you don't have enough
money (to never work again), become complacent due to your original ability to
make money (particularly those in tech world), you could find yourself broke.

5\. Speaking of broke. Minimize your borrowing. The majority of very rich
people who suddenly file for bankruptcy are over-leveraged and/or not
diversified in their investments. An example: Let's say I have $20mm. I could
go to a bank today and get a $40mm house. However, my taxes, upkeep, mortgage,
and other lifestyle expenses would likely cause me to deplete my original 20mm
within a few years.

6\. When you're rich, its very difficult to deviate from an expected
lifestyle. Once you spend 60k on a car, 90% of the time your next car will be
more. This is true of houses and everything else you purchase. My advice is
pace yourself.

------
dedward
Using the term loosely (some of my friends would consider me someone with "FU"
money - but I'm not in the "go out and buy a porsche for every day of the week
cause I like it" territory")

1) I view money differently than I did before. Not because I don't have to
care about it, because I absolutely do, or it wouldn't last long, but everyday
worries around "how can we pay bill X" go away, and are replaced by worries
about long term strategy and, at least in my case, not getting caught up in
long term strategy. Life goes on.

2) It takes some effort to adjust your thought process with regards to how to
treat others. Talking about my exciting trip to europe with my friends comes
across to some people as bragging or showing off - and while it's absolutely
_NOT_ \- it's just me being happy and sharing it with friends - after some
time you learn to read people and pick up on this - and remember that money
isn't the same thing for everyone, and can be a sensitive topic.

\- FU money is no more or less than what you make of it... and it can run out
as fast as it came if you aren't careful. Plenty of people are in the "FU"
financial stage and don't even realize it, and plenty of people who wish they
were there wouldn't do any better - your financial practices largely dictate
your long term financial well being - whether you have a little or a lot.

I know a number of people well further into the FU money than me - and I'd say
they're an even mix of people who became happier, struggled and are still
unhappy, or even worse, or who pretty much just stayed exactly the same (as
far as I can tell).

Remember, when most people say they wish they were rich, what they mean is
they want the lifestyle they think rich people have - which isn't, in reality,
what they envision it to be. (Rap stars on MTV don't sit around smokin blunts
surrounded by hotties 24/7 and driving sports cars - they spend time _working_
on new albums, hanging out with friends, and doing the scene)

~~~
wake_up_sticky
"FU money is no more or less than what you make of it... and it can run out as
fast as it came if you aren't careful. Plenty of people are in the "FU"
financial stage and don't even realize it, and plenty of people who wish they
were there wouldn't do any better - your financial practices largely dictate
your long term financial well being - whether you have a little or a lot."

Eh, this just doesn't ring true to me. I'm pretty sure that everyone I know
would do much better with an extra $10M, not the same or worse.

------
prog
I won't say I am in the big league but I have enough to last me a couple of
years if I stay comfortably. It is invested well so I am hoping that it will
last longer. I also don't have any major outgoings like mortgages or rent.

> * Has your life changed in unexpected ways?

One change has been that I haven't worked for the last 2 years and don't plan
to in the near future. I love programming so just spent my day working on some
hobby projects and watching stocks. The risk is that as there isn't any hard
deadline for delivery I end up taking things easy which is not good and
probably something I should be changing.

One problem I face is that much of the money is just lying in either accounts
or investments so its not really visible - no flashy cars or toys for me. And
I tend to be frugal in my living so most people think I am good for nothing
and feel bad for my wife. Some of her concerned friends have been asking here
when I plan to start working. My wife doesn't have any problem with my
lifestyle as she knows about my financial situation.

> * Has there been any change in the way you interact with strangers?

Social interaction is one thing I miss about having a job. It provides a clear
structure in which you interact with other people. So my interaction is now
primarily with existing friends and family. If anything, my previously average
social skill have probably become below average.

> * Has the number of things you have to endure increased or decreased?

I would say life has started appearing much simple to me. With money not a
factor in my choices, I sit around doing exactly what I want to do. As of now
I have nothing to show for my last 2 years (except my investments going up but
thats a passive activity) but I am hoping that will change in a year or two.

> * And is "FU money" all its cracked up to be? e.g., is your life an order of
> magnitude more enjoyable now, or is it pretty much the same etc?

I would say that I put up with less crap but its less enjoyable. To explain
the contradiction, when my wife comes home from work and talks about
"management is making X mistake", "my product was not highlighted in our
newsletter" etc, the usual office activities. I understand that but its been a
long time (2 years to be precise) since I experienced these things. These
basic experiences (good or bad) did keep me occupied and made life
interesting. Now with all that gone, its HN, hobby projects, stocks and after
that I am pretty much on my own do something that would make me feel
worthwhile.

Overall I would say that I am much more comfortable and happier than I was but
my social interactions have become pretty minimal which I don't think is good.

~~~
IgorPartola
Have you considered taking you hobby projects further? Hiring a team, renting
an office and putting a product out there? I am not suggesting you do, I am
just curious.

~~~
prog
I do want to start focusing on one project and get it to the point where its
useful. Following this I hope to do what you mention and put some more
resources behind it and make it grow faster.

I initially had a small startup but that didn't quite work out for various
reasons, so for about a year I have been prototyping various projects alone.
One thing about the no-deadline situation is that for the last year I have
basically been experimenting with different ideas and technologies. I suspect
if I have some sort of a deadline I wouldn't have spent so much time on it.
But then again maybe the time was well spent as the architecture and ideas are
more precise now.

One fear I have is my project becoming a Duke Nukem Forever :)

------
marcamillion
While I have never gotten 'FU' money, at one point in my life I had access to
all the digital media I could ever want. All the appz, movies, games, music,
audiobooks, etc.

Everything in digital format, I either could get, or had.

At first, I was extremely excited - and naturally told a few people (who
subsequently told a few people) and before I knew it I was the 'go to guy' for
anyone that wanted any media.

This experience scarred me. To the point where now I am ultra private and if I
get a new album or new movie or something (even through legitimate means) I
hoarde it and tell no one.

I have always imagined that this is what getting FU money would be like.
Relatives, old friends, etc. would come out of the woodworks...especially once
you start spending and travelling, etc.

For those that have experienced FU money, and the transition from not having
to having it, can you shed a little light on how your interactions with close
family, other relatives, close friends, etc. changed. Did you tell them? Who
did you tell and why? Also, who surprised you by the way they view you and
your money?

Anything else interesting about how you manage your wealth and why you decide
to tell who what, would also be appreciated.

P.S. I have since given up said access, because I got bored and the
maintenance required was stressful. I wonder if this is a precursor to
unimaginable wealth.

~~~
jeb
Are you trying to say that you discovered thepiratebay?

~~~
ttol
No, he's trying to say he operated a drop site (glftpd?) where couriers from
groups like motiv8 used software like flashfxp or linfxp to trade releases
from razor1911, paradigm, etc.

This assumes he was integrated at or near the top. Otherwise, he would be
further down the trickle.

------
manmanic
I think about this all the time.

I didn't make "FU money" from an exit, but rather from the ongoing success of
a couple of online businesses, which have been earning me far more than I know
how to spend. When this started happening, my initial reaction was to be
perplexed, because I no longer had a _financial_ motivation to get up in the
morning and work. Money had been the most salient part of my motivation for as
long as I could remember.

But I found that I still wanted to work, and it took me a while to understand
why. It turns out there are lots of other good reasons to create useful things
that people will pay for, like self expression, connecting to others, a sense
of achievement, and a feeling of contributing to the world. The money was
still nice but became secondary. Still, it allows me the luxury of working on
interesting things that I think people will like, even if I doubt I'll ever
make much money from them.

I found that the main challenge of being rich is finding a way to spend the
money in a way which contributes to my happiness, rather than detracts from
it. This is harder than it sounds. The most obvious way to spend money is to
buy an oversized home. But this is a really bad idea. First of all you have to
spend a lot of time maintaining that home. But most importantly it will likely
alienate your (presumably not so rich) real old friends who are still working
daily to pay off the mortgage. How will they feel about inviting you over to
their condo when you live in a palace?

The solution I found to the "friend alienation" problem is to spend money on
personal experiences rather than visible possessions. You can eat out at fancy
restaurants, travel the world and enjoy the best shows without your friends
knowing what you're up to, at least not in detail. It really helps if you have
a spouse and/or children that you can do this with, since they can make these
experiences all the more fun.

BTW this also neatly dovetails with recent research on happiness:

[http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/10/happiness.possessio...](http://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/10/happiness.possessions/index.html)

The one rich guy possession I'm allowing myself to buy is a second home in a
foreign country that I like to visit often. This will (hopefully) make those
visits less hassle and more enjoyable, and again, none of my close friends
need to know.

And yes, I worry about losing the money a little, and have taken a self-
propelled crash course in personal wealth management. But luckily I find the
subject quite interesting anyway, and I don't let myself lose any sleep over a
couple of percentage points in yield. In the long run, we all die anyway.

To summarize, getting "FU money" been a net benefit in my life, but it took a
lot of careful thought and planning to ensure it worked out that way.

Finally if anyone out there who's suddenly landed FU money is feeling a little
disorientated by their new situation, I highly recommend reading "Escape from
Freedom" by Erich Fromm, which is a wonderful book about the psychological and
existential challenges that freedom brings.

~~~
ttol
Where did you end up living? I'm facing a similar situation regarding my
living situation. I live in the heart of Boston, but most of my close friends
do not, and this does have an alienating effect. I've contemplated moving up
north to andover (a rural town -- opposite of boston) to position myself
closer to friends/family, but would have to give up the city life. This is one
of my current issues that I'm mulling over... thoughts?

~~~
bsnss-mn-cdr
Live your life, not theirs.

~~~
hrabago
The problem is that "their life" is so much a part of "youe life" (for the
poster above you). Good relationships with other people are a huge part of
what makes life better. I've always imagined that if I ever get FU money that
it would allow me to live closer to people I have good realtionships with.

~~~
bsnss-mn-cdr
I have near life long friends who I still see regularly enough but several of
us live in different states / countries now. I wasn't implying that they
should alienate themselves from their friends but they shouldn't make drastic
changes to their life just to accommodate them. ( I consider changing your
lifestyle + moving to a new location a 'drastic' change ) One the best things
having FU money allows for is the ability to 99.9% of the time decide to
travel to X at 1pm on Tuesday and be on a plane to X by 4pm the same day.

------
noahlt
Was the term "FU money" coined by Neal Stephenson, or was it in use before he
wrote Cryptonomicon?

~~~
Elite
I'm pretty sure Nassim Nicholas Taleb wasn't the source, but I first heard the
term from him.

~~~
gregwebs
His explanation was pretty good, roughly: you can say FU while you are still
on the phone with someone instead of after you hang up.

------
tsycho
Eventually, it didn't change me much, but I do spend a bit more on cheap
frivolous stuff (like <http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#Sudo>). But then I have
been through the cycle twice.

Initially I was broke. When I got my first real job (after undergrad in
India), I felt like I had all the money in the world. In the first few months,
I bought myself a nice camera, motorbike, smartphone, gifts for family and my
girlfriend, started eating at nice restaurants etc. But then I figured I
already had whatever I needed and things I enjoyed most didn't really require
any money (except the camera and motorbike, I guess).

Then I quit my job and went to grad school for which I had to pay for
(Masters, not a PhD) and went into debt (US schools are sooo expensive), and
drastically cut down my expenses (ate cheap Thai food almost every day). After
that I got a well-paying job again, paid off all my loans, and am now back to
my earlier lifestyle i.e. I spend on things I enjoy, give a modest amount of
money in charity regularly, enjoy the occasional expensive dinner, buy nice
gifts for my family and close friends, but I still save a good amount.

I am definitely happier than I would be without any money, but I don't think I
would be any happier if I suddenly started earning 2x.

~~~
zackola
This is not FU money. FU money is not worrying about having to work.

~~~
enjo
Maybe it is to him.... I've known a remarkable number of folks who had "FU
money" with $20k in the bank.

~~~
dasil003
Homeless broke people say FU all the time. FU money means never having to work
another day for the rest of your life. $20k might mean that in a few places in
the world, but some happy-go-lucky personality who doesn't know where their
next buck is coming from doesn't count.

~~~
code_duck
They feel like they have the freedom to be all 'FU'. It's all in the eye of
the beholder.

By some people's definition, having 'fu money' means you can tell people to F
off without risking your financial security. So... if I'm a homeless and broke
person, or someone with really low financial standards - that's true - isn't
it.

------
kloncks
Sorry, but what does "FU money" mean?

~~~
icey
"Fuck You" money - enough money that you can tell anyone you want to fuck off
and not have to worry about not being able to pay your bills as a result.

~~~
lisper
There's an important thing to realize about FU money: it does _not_ make
telling people to fuck off cost-free. Telling someone to fuck off is an
indulgence, and it is not free of cost no matter how much money you have.
Having FU money simply means you can afford this indulgence. But one of the
many problems that comes from having this kind of money is that now you have
to make this choice. When you can't afford something, it's a no-brainer. When
you can afford it, you actually have to think about it and take responsibility
for the result of your decision.

------
ANH
I'll probably get downvoted, but just a friendly PSA: "successful" does not
mean "has lots of money". I might ask the community members what they perceive
success to be, if it hasn't been asked already. And if I didn't already have
my own definition.

------
d0m
Maybe if someone has enough money to be safe and would be interested in
investing with a high ratio, contact me :D

~~~
d0m
As always on hacker news, no fun allowed.

~~~
d0m
As always on hacker news, truth things get down-voted.

------
orborde
This is a stupid thread. It's addressing a problem that most HN readers would
love to have, but don't, so it's simply a bunch of pleasant daydreaming, not a
useful discussion of how to solve a real problem.

I understand that people on HN want to be rich; I'd rather see an HN filled
with articles that help materially in getting there, not one talking about how
great (or not?) it is to be rich.

~~~
dasil003
It's probably wise to think about it while you still have some perspective.

Imagine the let-down of working your ass off and getting the big payday only
to screw it all up because you were psychologically unprepared.

