
Tell Microsoft and GitHub to Drop ICE as a Client - kalia35
https://github.com/selfagency/microsoft-drop-ice
======
djsumdog
There was a time when people came freely across the seas, and there were no
passports or citizenship documents. In many places it wasn't even that long
ago, 100 years or less. You just had to speak the language to make it, or find
your community. If you didn't, you'd often become a slave (or were brought in
as one).

But we live in a different world today, and there needs to be reasonable means
to control immigration in the way modern countries have evolved to operate. I
got a visa in New Zealand once and need to get my FBI fingerprints, a chest
x-ray and blood tests.

You might disagree with certain policies, and there should be a legal means
for more migrant labor for certain farm and factory fields to come in to meet
the demand, but blanket "ICE bad" is just a weird stance to take. As the son
of a legal immigrant, and someone who has gone through another county's
immigration process, I think it's a little bonkers.

There are also plenty of legal refugee status programs (although some are
difficult to find and yes, border security may deter people from the right
locations/checkpoints to apply -- different problem really). Many undocumented
workers come across the borders with their passports and just overstay (and we
should have a way to give them actual work visas if they have passports, no
criminal record and there is demand).

Well what about the war and crime and people escaping, you ask? Here's a
better solution. The United States should stop buying ALL THE COCAINE and also
put in actual gun registration so the big gun companies can't make as much
money with their massive smuggling programs:

[https://battlepenguin.com/politics/america-and-the-
mexican-d...](https://battlepenguin.com/politics/america-and-the-mexican-drug-
trade/)

~~~
the_matrix
Blame 4th generation information warfare for it. Each country has its own
narrative about what goes around both within and outside her borders, and they
want to adamantly stick to that narrative.

If their narrative loses to another country's, they simply cannot survive,
either politically or morally. Even people are becoming part of this narrative
wars these days, which is why each country is zealously guarding its borders
from outsiders.

------
zaroth
I think a country should have the absolute best tools at their disposal to be
able to handle processing and serving the millions of immigrants and billions
of dollars of goods which cross their borders.

If an influx of unaccompanied minors cross a border, a country needs to have
the systems, processes, facilities, and supply lines setup and ready to
activate to support that population.

Whether it is trying to confirm identification of someone crossing at a border
station or illegally, locating and vetting relatives (or someone claiming to
be a relative) in country, or finding a foster family or allocating space at a
shelter, there is a very significant amount of work that DHS and ICE needs to
be doing to both protect this vulnerable population as well as identify
criminals who may be trying to cross the border for nefarious purposes.

We need a best-in-world multi-layered system which includes everything from
search and rescue, drug interdiction, temporary shelters, family housing,
background checks and asylum claims processing, work permitting, and on and
on.

Border crossings on the southern border are actually at a historical low, but
the demographics of the people who are crossing has changed dramatically.
Instead of predominantly single males, we have had a massive increase in
unaccompanied minors and families. Instead of Mexicans, there has been a large
flow from Central America coming through Mexico and into the US. These new
demographics present extreme challenges to the existing facilities on the
border which were not built to accommodate that type of population.

IMO what we need to be doing is properly funding border enforcement and
processing, hiring a large number of new immigration judges to process claims
in days not months, and build facilities that can keep illegal entrants
reasonably comfortable for the _few days_ it should take to process their
arrival, whether that means admittance into the interior with a future court
date or refusal of entry and deportation.

I wonder, for example, what tools and services the USDS may be building for
ICE and DHS, and if the engineers on those products feel like they are
positively contributing to the safety and welfare of, for example, families
with qualified asylum claims, or helping identify children being trafficked
across the border.

------
Grue3
>Or, we will simply take our projects elsewhere.

I want to see how many actually do. If that's what it takes to break Github's
monopoly then so be it.

------
microcolonel
Pay attention to the record and intentions of your legislative candidates, and
go vote if you don't like what the government buys, or what kinds of
institutions your politicians have asked the Federal government to take over.

ICE will have Git hosting, this is not where your perceived injustice is
occurring.

------
TheRealDunkirk
If they don't, the people who forced Chef to drop _their_ contract owe them a
BIG apology. It's completely unfair to harass the little guys while the
Microsoft's and Oracle's of the world continue, unaffected.

------
johncoltrane
No. They can do business with whoever they want as long as doing so doesn't
break any law.

The world will never fully conform to anyone's vision, get over it.

------
Bostonian
The U.S. government is a big spender on tech. Tech CEOs have an obligation to
shareholders not to turn away big clients.

A sovereign country makes an effort to police its borders. It should do so
humanely, and not expect 100% success in stopping illegal immigration, but
immigration enforcement is a proper function. I get the impression that
critics of tech companies doing business with ICE are against all enforcement.

~~~
the_matrix
Its quite funny that America was once heavily criticized for meddling in other
country's affairs and inviting their hatred in return (pre 9/11 days). And
now, they are criticized for exactly the opposite thing: Just minding their
own business and securing it from outsiders!

~~~
kalia35
Securing a border != imprisonning children and separate them from their family

~~~
microcolonel
> _...separating them from their families._

When given the opportunity, the Democratic representatives refused to support
a bill that simply reversed that one Clinton-era decision that leads to the
separation of children from the people who claim to be their guardians at the
border (who are, as it turns out, often not).

Much noise has been made about using these children as bargaining chips, by
both sides, but neither seems to be totally above it.

~~~
kalia35
I think that's plainly wrong.

1\. There is no need for a bill to modify ICE misconducts 2\. The bill was for
financing ICE and help it amplify it's bad behaviors 3\. When the democrats
would not pay for inhumane ICE, the reps told everyone the dems were against
every changement.

