
Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term? - mattmanser
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3167412<p>First term I've heard this term is in a YC funded company recruitment post. I know I'm directly referring to a YC company's recruit post here, but someone did not switch their brain on when they posted that one.<p>Stating that you should be a fan of 'brogramming' to get a job comes across as blatant sexism to me. Especially given the pages that promote it at the moment.<p>Seriously, you're a company now, not a frat club. I'm not trying to spoil your fun, I'm sure that's your culture, but you just can't advertise for men only roles in this day and age.<p>I don't know the law in the US but over here in the UK these guys would be opening themselves up for a nasty lawsuit.
======
mdasen
Rather than focusing on whether it's sexist or not, I would start by saying
that it is unwise.

I think that we (as a society) want young people to see all avenues as open to
them regardless of gender. I highly doubt that the company doesn't want to
hire women or has any sexist intention. However, it is unwise for us (as
individuals and an industry) to use terms like "brogrammer" because it subtly
suggests gender. One might not mean it as gendered, but certainly some young
people will and will internalize it as meaning that "programming is really a
guy's thing". This is compounded by the fact that programming is a field where
women aren't well represented. I'm not suggesting quotas or anything like
that. I'm simply suggesting that when people are thinking about their future,
perceptions about industries affect their decisions and terms like
"brogrammer" can create perceptions.

The same could be said if a library position were to use female-gendered
terminology. Library science is a field that is predominantly women and using
female-gendered language can only help to reenforce that perception. We don't
want to force males into library science, but we also don't want young males
to feel like they shouldn't go into it "because it's women's work".

When someone says that something is "sexist", I think a lot of people become
defensive because they aren't sexists. I doubt that the person who wrote the
post is sexist. However, a person who believes in equality can say something
that negatively impacts that goal in our society. I don't know if it should be
called sexist, but I do think that it negatively affects what we generally
want in our world and our companies. Maybe not a lot, but it's something to
think about when writing things in the future.

~~~
Confusion

      it subtly suggests gender
    

I don't think there is anything subtle about it and it's not a suggestion.

~~~
chc
AFAIK, it is actually meant to contrast with the stereotypical nerdy
programmer self-diagnosed with Asperger's — who would never refer to a
coworker as "bro" — rather than to denote a "male programmer." The terminology
is very unfortunate, though, especially if you're outside the culture it
originated in.

I think the idea they want to convey could be more inclusively expressed as
"We believe in being happy and having a life and interests outside of
programming" or something like that.

~~~
dspeyer
The first instruction on the first google hit for brogrammer is:

> Polo, tight so the chicks can see how defined your muscles are

It's hard to see how this would apply to a straight woman.

------
dgabriel
Woman programmer here: I automatically assumed they were looking for college
aged men. "Brogrammer," is not a unisex term, no matter how they try to spin
it.

~~~
benwerd
Male programmer in his thirties here: I automatically assumed they were
looking for assholes.

~~~
rickmb
In other words, "a cultural match".

------
jdminhbg
There is kind of a weird irony gap going on here -- to me it seems
unremarkably obvious that all of the over-the-top language in the posting is
tongue-in-cheek. Do people think they actually plan to "get crunk"?
Programmers are stereotypically un-hip; the whole "brogrammer" meme is a
deliberate poke at the incongruity of someone hunched over their keyboard 14
hours a day, yet drinking Natty Lights while wearing popped collars. It is
kind of hard for me to believe that so many posters here believe that their
office culture literally resembles the Jersey Shore house.

That said, the instant gender reaction the word "brogrammer" provokes means
it's kind of a terrible choice for a job ad. Whether they meant it to exclude
women or not (I would put millions of dollars on a bet on the latter), I
wouldn't want to be defending it to the finely-tuned ironists on the EEOC.

~~~
MostAwesomeDude
"Crunk" literally means being intoxicated from both marijuana and alcohol
simultaneously. There's no way this posting was serious about the amount of
partying.

If one reads carefully, the ad does claim that non-bros are welcome to apply,
but I doubt that anybody else has read that far.

~~~
jontas
I don't know where you got your "literal" definition but that is certainly not
the colloquial definition where I come from. It just means general inebriation
without implying any particular substances
(<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=get+crunk>).

Also, if you read the post it says "at least once a month". Personally I don't
really consider that an excessive amount of partying but I guess everyone has
their own thresholds.

~~~
ericmsimons
The original definition of crunk is "smoking chronic (marijuana) and getting
drunk", but it has also become a term for getting "crazy drunk".

Either way, it seems like a bad idea to use this word in a job posting.

------
jgrahamc
Perhaps, but more than that it's bloody stupid.

~~~
nasmorn
Indeed it would certainly make me not want to apply to the position. In my
experience it is hard enough to maintain adequate professionalism in the 20
something caffeine crazed all nighter atmosphere of a startup. If it can't
show a modicum of it in its official communication, I can already see the
scenes in the office.

Also: I would try to hire flowgrammers because you know they are always in the
zone.

EDIT: Make that flogrammers

~~~
pyre
Does that mean that adverts for non-developers will be pitching for
'nogrammers'?

------
RobSpectre
Brogramming is just a joke. And like all Internet jokes, they end up misused
in job postings as a result of the author's effort to appear relevant.

I think this YC-funded startup is likely more guilty of tone-deafness rather
than misogyny.

~~~
drivingmenuts
I almost stopped reading the ad at "we like to party". I did stop reading at
"get crunk".

Serious, that's how they're blowing their startup money?

~~~
Sapient
Yep, crunk was where I stopped as well. Nothing else in the ad really offended
my delicate sensibilities until that.

------
wisty
It also seems ageist. It sounds like it would exclude anyone more mature than
Justin Bieber.

~~~
jgrahamc
It's actually "anything but just like us-ist", and with the rest of the ad
saying they won't accept someone who uses Windows, and starting with "PG loves
us" and continuing "We like to party. We are laser focused on work, but expect
to get crunk at least once a month" I'd steer clear.

They did one thing right though: they decided to be in stealth mode so we
don't know who those fools are.

~~~
achiral
Yes. Always steer clear of any environment where one is expected to form close
social bonds with others in a party situation. The best coworker is the one
you communicate with via text, right?

~~~
mechanical_fish
It's generally important that your coworkers _know how_ to communicate via
text...

There are words that work in person, at a party, after several drinks, among
friends that just do not work in text. Good writers know that. Sometimes bad
writers learn that.

------
arctangent
I think you might be missing the reference to a recent (funny) video about
"brogramming": <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_AAqi0RZM>

~~~
jgrahamc
Perhaps, but when I Googled "brogrammer" I quickly came across an @brogrammer
Twitter feed where the latest tweet reads:

"Just tried to jerk it to #siri. She couldn't get me off. #turing_test_fail or
dyke?"

<https://twitter.com/#!/brogramming/status/129638489905053697>

~~~
mechanical_fish
I feel dirty just having had to upmod this.

I've just learned an important author safety tip: Google the neologisms!

------
ordinary
Is it sexist to refer to a male programmer as "brogrammer"? No.

Is it sexist to state you're only interested in hiring male programmers? Yes.

~~~
Dylan16807
Does "brogrammer" mean male programmer? No.

~~~
artmageddon
Are you sure? I'm not sure how seriously a person could talk to a woman by
addressing her as "bro".

~~~
hucker
I am currently attending college, and I can confirm that many at my age refer
to a good girl friend as a "bro". It may be stupid and immature, but it is
what it is. As other commenters has said, "bro" is describing the relationship
and not necessarily referring to any specific gender.

------
bbrizzi
I agree that the post's title is not very tactful or professional but I don't
think it's sexist.

The term "bro" refers to values like fraternity and solidarity. Even the word
fraternity comes from the latin _frater_ which means brother but "fraternity"
is not a male-only concept.

I myself consider some girls to be my "bros" even though I wouldn't use that
term, but I agree in the values it conveys.

Additionally, if a girl applied for that job in particular I don't think she
would be turned down because of her sex (at least I hope so).

~~~
felideon
Please google the term "brogrammer". You are defending the post (or playing
devil's advocate) by implying a meaning that is not really the currently held
inferred meaning. (As far as I'm aware.)

~~~
Dylan16807
Explain. I can't find any definition of "brogrammer" that isn't a portmanteau
of "bro" and "programmer". And "bro" is _not_ a gender-specific term any more
than "milkman".

~~~
mikeryan
Seriously? The third google result for "brogrammer" is this:

<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brogrammer>

~~~
Dylan16807
1\. Programmer who...frat boy...calling everybody "bro"

2\. A programmer who looks like, acts like, or is a bro.

3\. A popular, cool, or otherwise normal person who has become intrigued by
the fun of programming.

4\. a bro who somehow learned to program

All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer
and not itself about gender.

~~~
mikeryan
_All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer
and not itself about gender._

Try looking up the term "bro" on there
<http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro>

Obnoxious partying _males_ who are often seen at college parties.

An alpha _male_ idiot.

a usually white young _male_

Stupid white trash _guys_ in the 909 with lifted trucks, wife beaters, shitty
music

~~~
Dylan16807
I don't know what to say about urban dictionary. There seem to be at least
three _distinct_ insulting stereotypes in addition to the definition that's
close to 'buddy'.

------
michh
Yes it is. Sounds like it's not the kind of company I'd like to work for, so I
guess in a way it's useful that they use that term.

------
ia
maybe they are going for cultural fit, first and foremost. if you were
offended by this job advert, it's likely you wouldn't be a good fit. why hide
company culture by writing a stiff and sterile ad? i'm not saying what they
did was good or bad, unless they are actually breaking laws in the post--then
it's bad. other than that, if you don't like the way they phrased things,
don't apply.

~~~
mattmanser
The reason there's a law against it is because bigots that still exist keep
women from attaining equality and that's bad, not the other way around. It is
in itself bad. You have a strange moral compass to me.

I know it's fun to be laddish when you're at college and uni, but cultural fit
can often be a polite way of saying 'Hey, I'm a bigot, women are stupid and
I'm not employing them above the level of secretary!'.

I'm sure cultural fit was used because some racist thought someone with a
different coloured skin wouldn't fit in the office.

I don't like the way they phrased it because it was very easy to read that
advert as advertising specifically for male programmers only. In other words,
they're in danger of coming across as bigots.

And by association, so are we.

So I said something as it made me uncomfortable.

~~~
davidhansen
This is not a political site so I'm not going to debate the merits/drawbacks
of outlawing bigotry in hiring practices.

But one thing that ought to be pointed out is that free markets tend to punish
companies, over the long term, that intentionally deny themselves access to
talent due to bigotry. Conversely, companies who acquire talent with rational
screening procedures will have a competitive advantage over those who use
irrational screening procedures.

It's a sort of corporate karma. In aggregate, bigotry in hiring procedures
will eventually harm you, legal or not.

~~~
jessedhillon
Evidence? I know free market theory sounds like the most plainly obvious,
common sense set of statements but you still have to justify your conclusions.
You are asserting without proof that the market is full of completely rational
agents.

~~~
dantheman
It's not that markets are completely rational at all, it comes from supply and
demand. If you exclude a large portion of your supply the price will go up.
For example, if I only higher people greater than 6 feet at my company, and my
competitor doesn't care about height -- the wages will be lower, unless of
course tall people are the cheapest to hire already.

------
cdanzig
this is why I always use "looking for brogrammer or hogrammer" in my job ads

~~~
goo
I'm now making that facebook group - 'Hogramming'

------
DanBC
The job ad is awful. Maybe they do not mean to be discriminatory; but that
doesn't matter. Any woman applying for, but not getting, the job can then
point to the ad and ask if she was discriminated against because of her sex.
The hassle of dealing with that will sap time and resources from actual work.

> _You are a native english speaker (our tech relies on speech recognition)_

This sentence is also unwise in the UK.

------
apricot13
I had the exact same thought when I saw this post! Although I don't personally
find it offensive, you need to be fairly thick skinned in the IT industry if
your a woman!

That ad certainly tells me that's not the sort of company any woman should be
working for.

I agree with mattmanser, if that was a UK job add they would be in serious
trouble!

------
brandoncordell
Why so serious?

Companies put little jokes and pokes in their job searches all the time. Do
you think the company is really going to turn down applicants because they're
not "brogrammers". It's certainly silly to assume so.

Did you even read the full post? Here is what it says verbatim:

* You are a fan (or future fan) of Brogramming on Facebook. (Non-Bros are still welcome to apply)

That in no certain terms has anything to do with gender. I'm a male and would
not be considered a "brogrammer". What if they said they were looking for the
King of all Rubyists? Does that mean they would hire a female because by
technicality she couldn't be a king?

Sorry I just think this thread is ridiculous.

------
yaix
Not if they'd also look for a Sisadmin.

------
cafard
Juvenile, yes. Sexist, not very seriously.

------
jonhendry
I note they aren't looking for a broffice manager.

~~~
danellis
That's because it's already an Office MANager.

~~~
a-priori
'Manage' comes from the Latin _manus_ for 'hand'

Edit to add: 'Man' either started in Old English as _man_ or _mon_ , or came
from Old High German _man_. In either case it meant 'human being'. It seems to
have become male-only more recently.

Source: Marriam-Webster.

------
molecule
sexist? yes.

valid EEOC complaint? yes.

<http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html>

------
cawhitworth
That's not a real job ad, is it? Sheesh.

------
corywilkerson
I can't believe we're having this conversation.

------
ohyes
Devil's advocate here. I agree it is sexist and unprofessional and not how I
would word a recruitment post.

That said, it seems to be a reference to an internet meme.

<http://www.facebook.com/getwiththebrogram>

They also say pretty clearly that non-bros are welcome to apply (I'm male and
I consider myself a non-bro). It also does not say that being a Brogrammer
actually entails that you be male. (Admittedly, it could be interpreted that
way). They are trying to show a work-hard/play-hard mentality, and maybe a
little playful immaturity.

All of this said, I think if they are willing to accept responsibility for the
repercussions of the job posting, there is no reason to abridge their free
speech. Whether this particular posting is a good idea for them as a company
(w/r/t investors, image, actually recruiting the best people rather than
people who are 'fun') is another matter.

~~~
noodle
> it seems to be a reference to an internet meme.

it is. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_AAqi0RZM>

------
cfontes
What does brogramming mean ? I'm from brazil and this word doesn't make sense
to me...

~~~
genieyclo
Other commenters are close, but I think it's referring more to the bro from
lax culture. Lots of chilling, popping natties with fellow brahs/bros and
other stuff you can read up on <http://mylifeisbro.com>

edit: hdctambien's comment is on-point with the urbandic link. I believe a
similar synonym with less euphemistic connotations is douchebag in certain
circles, but not amongst brahs.

also see <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_AAqi0RZM>

and this: [http://www.quora.com/Brogramming/How-does-a-programmer-
becom...](http://www.quora.com/Brogramming/How-does-a-programmer-become-a-
brogrammer)

~~~
mdda
Essential reference material : <http://bros.failblog.org/>

~~~
genieyclo
Funny, but that's more mocking than really portraying bros accurately.

This is probably more helpful: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqg01Nk3SYI>

and this: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4uDPZGYWmE>

and this:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm4KlxG1SEg&feature=relat...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm4KlxG1SEg&feature=related)

bonus round: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJh-13maChY>

------
hack_edu
If you asked me to define 'brogrammer' prior to reading this thread and
learning of the meme, I'd probably have described your typical technical
cofounder of a generic 2011 startup.

It doesn't help that the linked post _is_ a YC startup too... and they're one
of those "startups for startups!"

------
pyre
Even if this was inadvertent, the idea that the ad reads like:

    
    
      BROGRAMMERS COME WORK HERE
    
      (fine print: non-bros can apply too)
    
    

This comes across like:

1\. The writer of the ad had in mind a college-aged male as the target
audience.

2\. The 'non-bros can apply' part seems like an after thought. It makes it
seem like someone that's a 'brogrammer' will get to the top of the list, and
others will be looked at after the list of 'brogrammers' is exhausted.

3\. It indicates a sort of Reddit/Frathouse-ish company culture, which women
might not want to apply to any ways. (So some of the commentary could also be
on whether or not we want to encourage such cultures in our industry, but
that's stretching a bit from the original ad).

------
klapinat0r
To answer your question, no, brogrammer isn't even a term.

------
grandalf
And the first honeypot article hits HN...

~~~
dgabriel
This doesn't count as a honeypot at all because it directly references a YC
start-up and comments on start-up culture. A honeypot might be an article from
msnbc about sexism at Walmart.

------
tmh88j
While I do agree that it was not professional nor would I have posted it, I
feel like many of you guys are taking it personally.

I was involved in greek life during my undergrad and we used to joke around
about the "bro" lifestyle because we were all far from it, yet outsiders
associated us with it simply because we were in a fraternity. That's what made
it so funny to us; while other "frat bro's" would be out partying at 1am on a
Friday, all of the engineers and CS guys in my fraternity would be in a
computer lab.

------
grot
To properly answer the question "is brogrammer a sexist term", I think it's
important to distinguish -- for a moment -- what a sexist term might be.

1\. Is a term sexist when the speaker intends to be sexist?

2\. Or is the term sexist when others interpret to be?

3\. Or is a term sexist in some other more subtle way?

Some answers:

1\. No idea

2\. This varies. I know people here are saying brogrammer is an internet meme,
but I've met plenty of start-up people that seem to enjoy various components
of the meme -- polo shirts, bad sunglasses, incoherent misogyny.

3\. This one is hard, and there are several conflicting possibilities.

a) Usage of the word "brogrammer" (whether in jest, or not) could be good (for
gender relations), if it is successfully used ironically, or if it somehow
signifies the irrelevance of gender.

I don't think either of these are true. Popping your collar is not irony. It
might be a good halloween gimmick, but it's not irony.

And as for brogramming signifying a post-gender binary world, uh, no, come on?

b) The alternative is what I believe to be true, posts like this, regardless
of intent reveal a serious cultural insensitivity. Whoever wrote it doesn't
care if they offend you. They don't care if it sounds sexist, and they
probably don't care if they _are_ sexist.

This is very antisocial behavior, and it deserves disapprobation just for
that.

------
jwingy
IF brogrammer wasn't sexist (which is highly debatable), I wouldn't go so far
as to call these guys juvenile and idiotic. Sometimes you just need to have a
little fun with it and lighten up a bit. You only get one life to live so
might as well not be so serious all the time.

That being said, brogrammer probably is a bit sexist.

~~~
adestefan
I agree that everyone needs time to unwind and I'll be the first in line for a
drink or to hear an off-color joke, but a job ad isn't the place.

------
mrspeaker
I think you could argue that "brogrammer" is gender neutral. I also think that
anyone advertising for a "brogrammer", ironically or not, are probably not
going to have or attract software engineers who you could learn from.

~~~
andrewem
Using terms in US job ads which you could argue are gender neutral is a great
way to be given the opportunity to make that argument to the Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission.

------
Confusion
It depends. Whether a term is sexist depends on intention, as the term itself
is ambiguous in meaning. One of the meanings is sexist, another meaning is an
oxymoronic contraction of words; the kind of language joke hackers are
supposed to enjoy.

If we attempt to spin things in a positive light, it may be assumed that the
intention was to describe the culture in their startup, which involves jokes
around such terms as 'brogrammers'.

If we attempt to spin things in a negative light, they are obliviously sexist.

The truth may be anywhere in between, but the truth doesn't matter: only
reception does. And it isn't being received well.

------
melipie
If they thought "brogrammer" was all encompassing they would have not felt the
need to clarify that women could apply too near the bottom of the post. The
problem is not that they were trying to be overtly sexist, it's that they
didn't see it as being sexist(which is so often the case when one is in the
position of privilege) Obviously new to the job posting scene, they are
unaware of how this particular post would be interpreted by the EEOC, I would
hate to see a brand new company have to face off with a govt. lawsuit before
they even get off the ground.

------
roguecoder
I would definitely never apply to a job that advertise a "brogrammer" culture,
and I do consider it inherently sexist. In fact, I would go so far as to say
that any guy who thinks of himself as a "brogrammer" needs to do some serious
soul-searching and start reading bell hooks. Enforced standards of masculinity
is patriarchal oppression, just like the objectification of women by those
men. Stop defining yourself by your genitalia, get over your homophobia and
accept that society is larger than your weird little cultural perspective.

------
runjake
Perhaps it's not so much a sexist term as it is a useful warning sign.

------
nikography
this post is definitely real. i emailed the address on the ad, and they sent
back a surprisingly dismissive reply. they open rudely, begin to say they made
an error in judgement and then backhandedly defended themselves. pretty
uncool, i'd really like to know who the company is.

here was my initial email: <http://lilpuff.us/non-bro>

and the reply from secretstartup@gmail.com: <http://lilpuff.us/rY6D8r>

and the original listing, cached:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WEsG46N...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WEsG46NDDRYJ:https://news.ycombinator.com/item%3Fid%3D3167412+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

also, just to note: the fact that they put "non-bros still welcome to apply"
suggests that they were aware that brogramming might come off as a men-only
requirement, but did not see this as a problem.

also consider the use of "still welcome to apply" vs. more positive or
friendly language, e.g. "we love non-bros too!" which still utilizes the term
in question, but is welcoming and follows the tone of the posting.

and i spoke with multiple men and women (who do and do not work in IT) who
found this pretty offensive.

------
overshard
I really don't care, and I know female programmers who don't care, and I'm
actually annoyed that this question is being asked.

~~~
drivingmenuts
How wonderful to be you and them.

Some people very obviously do care, bro.

------
aphyr
I feel it's worth mentioning that _words_ aren't sexist; communication is.
Even really awful words (n.+, for example) can be used both in hurtful and
supportive ways. One can't always evaluate the meaning of a word in isolation;
the contextual relationship between the writer and reader colors the emotional
impact of that use.

------
tnicola
Are you sure that it wasn't just a bad joke and a case of someone trying to be
1337, but ended up at 1335.

------
ewanmcteagle
It's useful for weeding out this place as an employer. As a male programmer
who intends to remain a programmer, I'm disheartened by this future where I
may have to work for juveniles and have these types of discussions.

------
phatbyte
I really think this is a douche term to be honest. What's next, "coder's shore
?"

~~~
Permit
Hahaha you will appreciate this. [http://www.businessinsider.com/craigslist-
has-a-casting-call...](http://www.businessinsider.com/craigslist-has-a-
casting-call-for-a-show-that-sounds-like-jersey-shore-silicon-valley-2011-10)

------
watchthevideo
my respect has gone down for all of you who take any of this seriously.

~~~
ckolderup
It's not about whether or not it was serious, it's about the repetition and
legitimization of things that are being taken seriously by plenty of people
and are a legitimate problem for the people who are disadvantaged as a result.

------
twerth
Sexist? maybe, insensitive? probably, immature and cliche? absolutely.

------
dspeyer
After some research, I can't tell if brogramming is a parody or not. It could
be that the startup figures it is, and wants people who can laugh at things
like that.

If so, still poor communication.

------
noodly
I really like the "brogrammer" term :) I think in this femi-age it's important
to cultivate more masculi-terms.

> _you just can't advertise for men only roles in this day and age_

Why not ? And what has this day and age to do with it ?

> _I don't know the law in the US but over here in the UK these guys would be
> opening themselves up for a nasty lawsuit._

That explains everything. UK is closer to orwellian state than any other
european country, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

------
bbwharris
You can brogram with different sexes, do it all the time. Being PC all the
time is exhausting. The females that I pair with would laugh at this term and
not take offense to it. In fact by saying, "Let's brogram" would indicate the
equality that I feel of that female with fellow male programmers.

Lighten up and have a sense of humor once in a while. Life is supposed to be
fun, not a myriad of social rules and regulations.

~~~
yaix
Fully agree. But in our lawyer run and lawyer trained society, most people
don't see things this way anymore.

------
unabridged
bro =/= male

being male doesnt make you a bro, females can be bros

if you don't understand what bro means then you cannot possibly understand the
word brogrammer. if you do not understand the word brogrammer, then you are
not in the right culture to be hired by this company.

------
anamax
They're just doucheoisie.

As to "We love all kinds of music, tv, movies, and books", they likely don't.

------
bradfordw
Brogrammer? No. If someone referred to a female co-worker as a Hogrammer, then
yes.

------
pekk
Don't call yourself a brogrammer, it's bad for your career.

Maybe software brogineer or something

------
brndnhy
Perfect way to close out shark jumping week.

------
sp332
"bro" puns are pretty non-sexed. Women make "bro" jokes too, because they're
funny and no one should take them seriously.

~~~
mcantor
Be careful about the term "should", it implies a lot of assumptions that are
probably not shared by your audience.

~~~
sp332
Mainly, I assume that if I tell someone that "bro" puns are just jokes, they
will stop thinking that I'm being serious.

------
cjoh
Yes.

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seanmcq
How could it not be?

------
jsavimbi
By all means, flaunt your inexperience by using idiot language in your
recruitment posts.

------
shareme
if you have to ask, its obviously yes...WTF YCombinator quality falling very
fast after free money given out

~~~
mikeryan
I'm not sure you can make that assumption. Relative immaturity in YC company
job postings (particularly on HN) has been a pretty consistent problem (I'm
not saying _all_ just enough bad apples slip through that its noticeable). I'm
actually a bit surprised at this point that part of the YC program doesn't
address this.

------
ryanmarsh
Maybe, who gives a fuck?

~~~
mattmanser
This is my way of flagging an unflaggable post.

Hell, I love memes, Reddit, drinking, partying, etc.

But is that a professional or appropriate job advert for HN? Do we want to be
a community which actively cultivates a 'no girls allowed' policy?

~~~
natrius
_"Do we want to be a community which actively cultivates a 'no girls allowed'
policy?"_

That's not fair. An unwise attempt at humor isn't _actively_ cultivating such
a policy. It may be inadvertently fostering such an environment, but so many
comments are busy casting aspersions on the job poster without addressing that
issue.

~~~
banane
Humor sometimes conveys the real meaning- and in this job post, it is
undeniably, No Girls Allowed. Those that think "brogrammer" means anything
more deep or nuanced is giving the poster a whole lot of leeway. If they
wanted a more diverse (age, sex, even race) they'd convey a different culture.

This is one of those things in the Valley that I really hate (I'm a ho-
grammer). The immature attitude - up there with "rockstar" postings. Is there
anything in the ad about the tech? Oh right, because it's "stealth" (another
annoying Valley thing). I am also wary of a company that feels the need to
state that programmers get some sleep. Really? The reality is that they're
going to get tons of applicants because it's a recession. The applicants are
going to be eager and inexperienced, probably not from here. The poster didn't
even _have_ to use brogrammer to get 95% men applying- that's roughly the % of
men in the CA-Bay Area industry.

The new hires are going to work for a bit, the start-up will fizzle to
nothing, but in the meantime the brogrammer will learn how to party in SF, go
to strip clubs, get crunk, work hungover, and write passable code. He'd
doubtless leave with a few great connections, and then starting or join
another startup, where he'll fondly remember the ad that got him here and post
a similar one. A kid just out of a midwestern school will see it and buy a
cheap one-way ticket to SF. Like begets like (another thing that annoys me
about SV). The monoculture continues.

