
Jobstart – Personalized, expert guidance to land your next software job - ztratar
https://www.jobstart.co
======
ztratar
Woah -- wasn't expecting the quick upvotes! :)

Creator here (shamefully submitted myself, haha). Happy to answer any/all
questions or ramble on and on about the problem.

We basically think there needs to be a legitimately trustworthy service out
there. Something that acts more like a a career coach instead of a position
spammer. Something that understands your needs and specific situation.

Along the lines of "doing things that don't scale", we're completely human
powered but technology assisted. There are a lot of things that are involved
with career coaching or recruiting that are simply tedious -- we automate them
away so we can better focus on relationships.

~~~
coherentpony
Your site jobstart.co has 6 trackers that are invading my privacy. Here are
the URLs they hit:

s7.addthis.com

stats.g.doubleclick.net

s-static.ak.facebook.com

cdn.optimizely.com

2762420311.log.optimizely.com

cdn.segment.com

~~~
ztratar
Sorry to hear your perspective on that.

1) Addthis is what we use for sharing. It's helped us a lot. 2) Google
analytics puts in doubleclick. 3) Facebook sharing... yup. 4) We're currently
running an A/B test with Optimizely. 5) Segment.io is a great analytics tool.

I'd recommend all the above services. That's my opinion on the above!

~~~
sp332
The trouble with the FB button is that is lets FB track you just by visiting
the page, even if you don't click on the button. You could use a non-JS
version of the button, or use a "two-click" button that doesn't load scripts
from FB until the user is ready to share something.

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fecak
Jobstart works with job seekers to help them get hired, and gets paid when
their recruiting clients hire their candidates. Sometimes Jobstart's
candidates get jobs at non-clients, and Jobstart doesn't get paid.

Jobstart can help negotiate offers, for which they charge the candidate 20% of
the difference between original and accepted offer.

I'm an independent agency recruiter, and it sounds a lot like what I do. I
don't charge candidates for negotiating services though.

I agree that most recruiters aren't very good at what they are supposed to do.
Positioning yourselves as coaches is a marketing strategy to differentiate
from those recruiters, but what you are doing is basically the same thing as
what a good (both skilled and 'benevolent') recruiter might do, no?

~~~
ztratar
Hey there! Great questions.

1) All of our coaches are experienced engineers. 2) We're much more involved
than recruiters. We're going to run you through in-house interview gauntlets
if that's what you want and need (detailed feedback included). We'll rip apart
your resume and start from scratch if that's a smart thing to do. I've found
0% of the recruiters I've talked to can do those things effectively -- perhaps
you're different, but we've never met. :] 3) We help you network. 4) We'll
_actively_ help you look at companies outside our recruiting contract scope.
We'll recommend companies that we don't work with. This is not a "sometimes
candidates get jobs at non-clients" sort of thing. This is more of a "let's
put you first, no matter what" sort of thing.

~~~
fecak
Being experienced engineers is helpful. Whether or not you're "much more
involved" than recruiters probably depends on the recruiter, but running
multiple interviews internally with coaches is definitely a worthwhile
service.

Most experienced recruiters can rip apart a resume and are usually willing to
help make changes (specifically when it's for their own client). I've seen
recruiters that claim ownership of the resume they modify for their
candidates, which seems tacky.

I understand that you will recommend companies that you don't work with,
although your business model has all the same incentives that the traditional
contingency recruiting model has.

You have two ways of making money. 1 - Getting paid when a candidate accepts a
job at your client (standard contingency model). 2 - 20% (of difference) paid
by candidate for negotiation

You can recommend candidates to companies you don't work with, and you can
make money off these deals by providing a negotiation service.

I respect that you are trying to provide a superior service to what most
recruiters are providing. It's a sad state for the recruiting industry when
companies are reluctant to even use the term "recruiting". I'm as critical of
the recruiting industry as anyone, so I do wish you well.

~~~
ztratar
Are you in SF? If so, we should grab coffee. Even if not, we should Skype.

My email is zach@jobstart.co!

~~~
fecak
I emailed you a few hours ago. I'm in NY, but happy to share ideas.

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dblock
I think this is the first time in a long time that I see a startup that aims
to solve the hiring problem with something other than technology (with
people), so my sincere congratulations.

As a CTO of a successful startup, I would sign up as an expert if you were a
non-profit in a heartbeat - and I don't mean that you don't charge your
clients, just a B corp or something that aims to solve this problem without
getting rich. If you are successful and have a solid network that works, you
will still prioritize paying clients over non-paying ones, no-matter how hard
you try not to. Convince me otherwise?

~~~
soham
Hi there,

At [http://InterviewKickstart.com](http://InterviewKickstart.com), we're
trying something similar, but from the other size viz. Candidates.

Our hypothesis is, that if someone showed candidates how to prepare rigorously
for interviews, how good engineers actually do things, and how to think about
things the right way, then they'd avoid making several mistakes in interviews
and at work.

We're taking a very hands-on detailed human approach. Because interviews are
more like a date, than they are like a test.

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gwbas1c
I agree that the hiring process is broken; but when I look at this, it just
comes across as ordinary recruiting with some (snaps fingers) pizazz.

How do you help the hiring companies choose the right candidates?

In my experience, the best recruiters are those who bring in ideal candidates
without being pushy or overselling. Do you have some objective way of ranking
candidates? Do you filter out unqualified candidates?

(Snaps fingers) PiZZaZZZ!

~~~
ztratar
Haha, Pizzzaz!

I think there's a spectrum when it comes to recruiting -- some recruiters are
good at their job, no doubt, but the majority of people get left behind by the
industry. Helping people become better versions of themselves simply isn't a
value recruiting firms hold dear.

The best recruiters, as you said, take already ideal candidates and figure out
how to sell them on their companies in an authentic way.

We flip the model around and start with the candidate, no matter where they're
at. That's not just a "snap fingers pizzazz" \- that's changing the core
process.

We'll build tools internally to rank candidates and companies eventually, but
right now it's goodm old-fashioned human power! (We have a couple tools
already built, but nothing game changing is live)

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javadi82
I know this beats the very premise of your product - "personalized" guidance
but thought I would ask anyway.

How open are you to sharing general guidelines (that are insightful and not
already available everywhere) ?

It would also help if you could ask the people who are successfully placed to
write their learnings along the process. Similar to how the Insight data
engineering fellow and others at coding schools share what they learnt/built.

Eg:
[http://insightdataengineering.com/blog/mapmycab.html](http://insightdataengineering.com/blog/mapmycab.html)

~~~
ztratar
We'll eventually run an entire blog series around general guidelines. :)

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rickr
Interesting idea!

Some UI feedback - the 'I agree/disagree' buttons on your mission component
are kind of weird. I clicked on both just to see what would happen.

I think the CTA to sign up as an expert was a bit hard to find - perhaps due
to the colors?

I'm also not sure why I would want to become an 'expert'. What's in it for me?

~~~
ztratar
Thanks for the feedback, Rick!

The "what's in it for me" question is a good one. While very unintuitive,
we've had no problem signing people up who are simply helpful types. There's a
large population out there of talented people who enjoy helping others and
this is the most impactful, time efficient way to do it.

At first we were thinking about offering money, but the economics of the model
don't really work out. No matter what we do, since we're not guaranteed money,
we can't guarantee experts money. Under that situation, we could offer them on
average less than $60 an hour... at which point 1) it feels like work and 2)
the people who become experts usually make 3x that.

After we worked on this for months, it turned out the best system was simply a
volunteer system. Strange, eh?

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subrat_rout
Are you guys willing to coach to self-taught programmers(who do not have a
comp sc. degree) for the entry level jobs? Or you are focused on taking
experienced candidates and groom them for more senior level position?

~~~
ztratar
Absolutely willing to take self-taught programmers. In fact, in our experience
thus far, we've found self-taught people tend to get better results when
coached/mentored.

~~~
subrat_rout
I am a self-taught programmer but I find hard to crack the entry level full
stack developer position in SF bay area. Almost all startups are looking for a
senior developer (at least 3-4 years experience). So I am in a catch 22. Do
you guys have plan to coach newbie developer for junior level position?

~~~
wyclif
I ran into this same problem: everybody only seems to want senior talent.
There's a chasm between intermediate and "unicorn" that needs to be bridged. I
hope these guys can improve that situation.

It's tough to find good mentoring when you're a n00b to intermediate.

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BinaryIdiot
This is a neat idea! Btw OP looks like you're serving the Google Lato font
over HTTP while your site is coming over HTTPS; I think this is causing some
of the issues folks are having not being able to see the text very well.

~~~
ztratar
Thanks, Binary!

Will fix. Little nervous pushing changes right now, hah.

~~~
jfim
There's a typo in the footer too. "helped place candidates at top technoogy",
should be technology.

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soham
Hey Zach, great start.

Founder of [http://InterviewKickstart.com](http://InterviewKickstart.com)
here. We do something similar, but with two differences:

1\. We do it from a bootcamp angle. Candidates join us for rigorous
(re)training in CS fundamentals.

2\. Our revenue comes from candidates and not from companies. That helps us
stay on candidates' side.

Let's grab coffee some day? We're in South Bay.

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sageabilly
Another question, are you guys aimed at programmers only or are you placing
people who work in all aspects of software? I'm a business analyst/strategist
in the tech sector but not a programmer- is that a position that you'd be able
to help place?

~~~
ztratar
Ah, good question. Programmers for now -- sorry.

Our goal is to eventually scale the coaching model so it's financially
sensible to expand into other positions and eventually industries. The expert
network is a big piece of that!

~~~
sageabilly
Cool, thanks for the reply!

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stellographer
Haha, that mission statement though!

"empower all people," "help they deserve," "status quo is unacceptable," "they
have had decades to find a solution to help the masses. They have failed,"
"facilitate this _movement_," "increase the rate of innovation across the
world"...

Who do you think you are? MLK? You're a fancy-pants version of "Goodwill" that
literally caters to just the 1%, get over it.

~~~
ztratar
I do believe everything that is written there. If you want to take it as
inflated or egotistical, go ahead -- that's your right.

If you understand the mission and what we're trying to do here though, we're
really aiming to help everyone. Starting with software is simply a foothold
that works when you're an early stage startup. It lets us focus the business
and run the model against an industry that moves so ridiculously fast, we are
forced to keep up. As we can build tech to scale coaching, we'd like to
achieve price points low enough to help everyone.

That's the plan at least. Not over it! Will keep dreaming!

~~~
sebastianconcpt
It's a good take. Super healthy. I hope you can go far

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codingdave
"We work with top companies who pay us to specially refer them the best
candidates. If we think you're good enough, we'll recommend them as a company
for you to check out."

This sounds like a new twist on the same old recruiter workflow. Is that an
unfair judgment?

Also, what if you don't think we are good enough? Do you still offer help?

~~~
ztratar
1\. New twist on old recruiter workflow -- 100% correct. Making money sort of
demands you fit into old models at least a little bit. Once we gain more
traction, we can try out more daring things. Up until now, though, the main
question was "do people want coaching?". We've found that answer. :)

2\. If you're not good enough for those companies, we'll figure out why and
still help you out. Granted, we won't help you for months and months -- but
we're not going to leave you hanging there. We think helping everyone is going
to build a strong brand and service.

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kartikkumar
Looks like a neat service. Just as a point of information, should I assume if
I don't get a response that my submission has been rejected? Would be nice to
get a replying if submissions are not taken into consideration just to know
not to wait.

Good luck with expanding the service to other cities!

~~~
ztratar
Thanks! No we just haven't sent out emails yet. We should have had an
automated message upon signup but didn't put it in (stupidly). We're adding
the automated message and will send updates to everyone tonight.

~~~
kartikkumar
Thanks! Yea wasn't sure if there was an automated message I should have
received after signup. Anyway, looking forward to hearing back!

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suttree
Very cool - small thing, there's a spello in the footer "We have helped place
candidates at top technoogy companies and startups." Bigger thing, software
jobs are pretty much all jobs, or do you mean tech jobs? Either way I like it,
nice one!

~~~
ztratar
Snap -- will be in the next push.

We can help people understand the skills for all ranges of software jobs, but
prioritize people looking in tech.

~~~
schneidmaster
Another typo - "Thus, if you're base offer is $100k" \- should be "your" :)

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gusmd
Awesome! Are you willing to help someone from a classic engineering background
transition to development and getting a more entry-level job? Or are your
focus on already experienced developers working in the industry? Thanks!

~~~
ztratar
We're open to both. We really want candidates who are going to push themselves
and learn.

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desireco42
This is excellent idea. At least how I understand it. Recruiters such badly
and we have very little reason to work with them. This would provide better
value proposition and make devs more motivated to work with them.

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omouse
Seems you're taking the 10X approach and focusing on full-time jobs instead of
freelance/per-project jobs. I like it! Too bad about the location restriction,
are remote positions possible to hire for?

~~~
ztratar
Yes -- we'll help candidates with whatever they're looking for.

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ztratar
If your company is hiring engineers, email us team@jobstart.co

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fweespeech
I think is awesome, you really should have a mailing list for when you go
national tho in addition to the "SF batch sign up" :P

~~~
ztratar
Who said this batch signup is only for SF? ;)

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felipegalvao
Are you guys willing to coach job seekers from other countries (if they have
the right skills, of course)? Or is this US exclusive?

~~~
ztratar
We're not against it, but by the looks of it we're going to prioritize people
who are either 1) citizens or 2) can get work visas already.

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utuxia
If you want to work remotely: [http://offsite.careers](http://offsite.careers)

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wyclif
Heads up: when scrolling down, the signup element overlaps some of the body
text in the latest Chrome on OS X.

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scast
I was looking into this. Sadly it requires that I provide a LinkedIn profile
which I don't have.

~~~
dotBen
As a hiring manager, I use LinkedIn either to primarily source engineers or to
validate the experience of an engineer that I found via some other means (open
source project, coding event, etc).

To some extent, if you don't have a LinkedIn you don't really exist within the
job market _\- which is fine I guess if you never intend to change jobs but
might be something you do want to do some day :)_

I'm actually curious why you wouldn't have a LinkedIn?

~~~
brianpan
I have considered moving away from LinkedIn and designing an online resume.
LinkedIn is not perfect, there are plenty of reasons you might not want to use
it.

Besides finding engineers, what does LinkedIn provide you as a hiring manager
that a resume would not? (Assuming an online resume or a pdf has links to
company information, references, etc.) I can't imagine anyone actually puts
stock in LinkedIn "endorsements" or "recommendations".

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skallung
This looks cool! Do you guys only coaching for junior/senior positions or
internships as well?

~~~
ztratar
Coaching for full-time positions only. Junior/senior included.

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shruzberi
Does Jobstart offer guidance and refer candidates who don't have permit to
work in the US?

~~~
ztratar
We have a focus on the US.

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lk145
Do you have any testimonials from engineers who have been placed with help
from Jobstart?

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hbharadwaj
Is there any focus on Product Management or is this just Dev jobs?

~~~
ztratar
Just dev jobs for now! Once we figure out how to scale coaching to a
significant degree, we'll tackle other areas. :)

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josemagana
Is this service useful for students seeking summer internships?

~~~
ztratar
We actually existed entirely for students for the past 10 months, but we'll
admittedly prioritize those seeking full-time positions.

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grayfox
Hey guys!

Cool idea.

Sounds like a great fit for my partner.

Do you work with remote workers, non-US citizens?

~~~
ztratar
We prioritize people in the US, but we'll technically take any application.

~~~
grayfox
Neat!

She just signed up.

Thank you friend, she is a winner.

If you meet Alicia, say hello!

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fsk
If it's free for candidates, how do you make money?

~~~
ztratar
We have contracts with a certain number of companies and understand their
needs the best.

When we see a candidate come through who is a shoe-in for a company on that
list, we'll let the candidate know that's an opportunity for them but not
pressure it. If they'd like to chat with the company, we'll make the intro. If
not, cool.

Our model prioritized creating a trustworthy brand over everything else.
Everything. Including revenue at this point. We'd much rather be the first
place candidates think about heading when starting their job search than
converting 20% more inbound.

~~~
fsk
How much of a time commitment is it for the candidate? I.e. are you expecting
a 20 hour coding test?

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dilatedmind
how important is the content of our linkedin while applying, should I be
filling mine out to increase my chances of being selected?

~~~
ztratar
I'd fill it out, yes -- we weren't expecting this high of traffic so profiles
that are blank are likely to get skimmed over (unfortunately).

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donjh
Congrats on the pivot and launch, Zach!

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asimpletune
Is having a LinkedIn required?

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veeti
The thin text is almost unreadable on Linux.
[https://i.imgur.com/XFTitdd.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XFTitdd.jpg)

~~~
BinaryIdiot
That's because the site is attempting to load the font over http and the site
is hosted on https so I'm guessing your browser is blocking that.

It uses the Google Lato font for that text

~~~
ztratar
Just pushed the fix!

