
Ask HN: Why are we addicted to getting rich? - r0brodz
There is trillions of dollars in peoples hands that do nothing but buy luxury. What is this ancient desire to be rich? What amount will make you satisfied?
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dasmoth
Financial independence (in the "work becomes a choice" sense -- not
necessarily after idleness...) is a pretty attractive prospect. Beyond that
point, money has rapidly-diminishing returns for me.

~~~
taprun
Too bad that hedonic adaptation [0] exists. The longer we live, the more we
become addicted to expensive comforts.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill)

~~~
skybrian
This isn't inevitable. People do quit high-paying jobs to do something else.
Early retirement happens.

~~~
conwy
Yep, I'm currently going in the opposite direction. I'm now spending less on
food and clothing than I've ever spent in my entire life. Rent is about the
same as before, but I'm going to find ways of reducing that as well.

For more info about this lifestyle, see this website:
[http://earlyretirementextreme.com](http://earlyretirementextreme.com)

~~~
rak00n
I used to be on the side of cheap clothes. It was a recent realization that
clothes that cost more are more comfortable and unless you're buying too much
it doesn't add a lot of expense.

~~~
croshan
Right. Spending money on things you'll use everyday, that keep you warm, that
make you feel comfortable, physically and mentally?

As long as you're done with your growth spurt, and have your personal style
without need to look trendy every season, I see no need to try to buy the
cheapest clothes. Affordable, sure, but without sacrificing quality.

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andrei_says_
We are hypnotized by a few key beliefs which contradict our nature and
reality:

\- that we are separate/isolated from the rest of humanity

\- that we need to be self-sufficient in order to survive

\- that money has real value

\- that without money we don’t have value

\- that almost everything can measured in money

\- that making more money is better

\- that exploitation is ok and doesn’t influence us

I disagree that the trillions buy luxury. I’d argue that they expose
addiction. We are burning our environment, and our personal lifetimes, faster
and faster, to add numbers to wealthy peopke’s Accounts. It’s like redirecting
to Dev/null.

It is a flow which creates enormous confusion, grasping, suffering, on all
scales.

I visualize it as the grey tornado thing from stranger things, on planetary
level, but especially intense in the US, a country with institutionalized
government corruption and the most barbaric industrialized commercial
healthcare in the world.

On the other hand, money can be used to support and express gratitude.

So it’s not really the money, but the hypnosis and the addiction.

~~~
conwy
So how does one not become homeless without money?

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tmnvix
For me, there are a couple of motivations:

1) Financial freedom and security. Aside from ensuring material needs this is
important because it provides a good foundation for autonomy - an important
part of self-fulfilment.

2) The means to make things happen. I don't want to own things or show off. I
do want to facilitate things that I think will be beneficial to people I care
about (e.g. help a friend or relative start a business, fund a non-profit,
etc).

For a lot of people 'getting rich' means flash cars, big houses, and
extravagance. I don't want any of that. I want the means to make my world (the
one I interact with) a more pleasant place (for myself and others).

~~~
r0brodz
Indeed friend. I would love more people like this in mass. We need good
friends and altruistic folk that think of others. I would love to be rich too
and do the same as you say yet I highly dislike the entire flock of zebras who
regulate who gets it and who doesnt. Hard work is important but Network is
truly luck. I may have a library of ideas never implemented yet I am blocked
by who I know and even if I go and find folk I am blocked by their perception
of me. Its certainly interesting to see US as the land of opportunity.

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jomkr
I have a desire to be free. I'm working towards never having to look at a
fucking computer again. Hopefully by the time I'm 30, I'll have enough to do
only need to work about three months year. The rest of the time I'm going to
be surfing or rock climbing.

~~~
aianus
Why can't you do this now? Three months of software contract work is more
income than 99% of the planet earns in a year.

~~~
imesh
Not saying he couldn't do it now, but 99% of the planet lives in undesirable
situations.

~~~
conwy
Undesirable from our perspective perhaps, but also not quite the same, or as
bad as, what we might imagine.

See this website: dollarstreet.org.

Looking at the photos of some of the poorest places, I suppose they're
undesirable from my perspective now, but if I moved there and lived there long
enough and adapted, I could see myself finding contentment with less.

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jamocon
I have a number, well 2. The first being a stepping stone, a marker to reach,
the point where I can step back for a year, re-evaluate and consider if I want
to shoot for the next target. Neither of the numbers are high, the first with
some savy investments I could make last the rest of my life but I'm a
relatively simple guy, I could live on ~12k a year easily. That includes rent,
bills, food, clothes etc.

For me, it's not about stopping work. I generally love the things _I_ do, the
projects and concepts I develop in my spare time. For me, that's not working,
it's a passion.

My second number is all about that, it's about being able to buy the ability
to do what ever the fuck _I_ want. Ideally I want a nice plot of land in a
relatively remote area with some workshops and enough in the bank where I
don't have to worry about bills and I can fund whatever project takes my
interest.

~~~
conwy
Yep, I have the same goal. If/when I manage to get to $600k (~12k p/year
assuming 2% yield) I'll take 3 months totally off work of any kind, just
recuperating, then another 3 months to plan out the rest of my life.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Isn't inflation 3% a year?

~~~
conwy
Don't depress me please :(

~~~
sl8r000
I still think 2% cash yield is reasonable. Say 5% gross, 2% to inflation, and
1% (1/3 of the remainder) to taxes. Leaves 2% to spend.

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borplk
What is this ancient desire to be rich?

It's the same ancient desire to hunt and survive.

With money you can hunt. Without it you will be hunted.

When you don't have money you become the subject of the force and influence of
those who have it.

You will have to live your life on someone else's terms.

~~~
r0brodz
If we believe history then I could agree yet my perspective is also ancient
but it doesnt show man as an evolving creature who begins on Earth as a dumb
hunter and gatherer moving along into the future developing an advanced brain.
So our world force feeds us information based on fallacy of our ancestors to
continue making the powerful and rich full in their poppycock. Make sense?
Like another fellow said, we want to rule over people. So where we are today
as we can analyze world situations doesnt seem we are very advanced.

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AnimalMuppet
The thing is that money stands for _everything else_.

What do you really want? Security? Money can get you that (within limits).
Identity? Money can get you that, too (again, within limits). Experiences?
Money can get you those (pretty much without limit). To not have to work?
Money can get you that. So no matter what you want, it's pretty easy to
convince yourself that you could have that, if you only had money.

> What amount will make you satisfied?

Legend says that, when asked how much it took to be satisfied, John D.
Rockefeller said, "Just a little bit more". He was the first billionaire, and
the richest person in his day. If it took more for him to be satisfied, well,
you're never going to have enough money to get there.

Now, as I said, this story is legend (so far as I have been able to
determine). Still, the problem is that real satisfaction doesn't come from
money. The best you can hope for is to have enough to provide for your needs
and at least some of your wants. That's as good as it gets, because beyond
that, more money doesn't seem to increase happiness/satisfaction.

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lorenzq
I need enough money to support myself and have influence while working on
things society will not pay me for yet will benefit them all long term.

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mc32
I don't know if the assumption that people buy only luxury with their excess
money and moreover that the spending of excess money is bad.

If you had millionaires and billionaires who lived frugally it would mean no
demand for goods and services you and I and most people contribute to. That
they can invest in ideas means other people get to work pursuing those ideas.

If we didn't seek to be rich (or even wealthy)and we were all just getting by
with "living wages", in the first place, we would still be in a place where
there was low demand for things and there would be little spare money to do
non-essential things. It'd like living in 1980s India or China or Indonesia.

On the other hand, frivolous consumption is a problem (disposable thises
(these?) and disposable thats (those?) contribute to environmental damage.

That said, the best thing we could do is slow pop growth to replacement levels
rather than growth. That means educating poor people everywhere and getting
them on contraceptives.

~~~
r0brodz
Sure I agree too with the basic supply and demand.

Its: "disposable this and that". :)

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bigmanwalter
It is power. The more money you have, the further your influence.

~~~
r0brodz
Yes the basic premise of our condition: the desire to rule over nature.

~~~
bigmanwalter
Not so much ruling nature but ruling other people.

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skybrian
Possibly of interest:

[https://www.marketwatch.com/story/you-can-retire-early-
witho...](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/you-can-retire-early-without-
adopting-mr-money-mustaches-extreme-frugality-2018-01-11)

~~~
odonnellryan
It is interesting because of the amount of money you need for "traditional
retirement" in the US.

If I want to live how I live now, I'll probably need to put about $3k aside
into retirement each month to retire when I'm around 65!

I find this insane because I'm quite young. The $3k/mo is probably a good
number to split between my IRA and brokerage account - but I don't consider my
brokerage account to be strictly retirement.

More of "general investing" that I can use, if I need to or decide to, invest
in something else in the future... not sure what, but I do not consider it
like the IRA in the sense that I will absolutely never touch it (outside
rebalancing as I get older).

Anyway... I know of quite a few people who live on 20-30k/yr (with a GOOD
backup for emergencies!) sailing the world. Does that not sound fun?!

After you buy the boat!

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sunstone
Money plays the part in modern life that food used to play on the plains of
Africa. You need it to survive and in the past food could not be kept for
long. You had to continually be on the lookout for more, it was fundamental to
survival.

It was easy enough for people to substitute money for food as the critical
thing we need to survive. It's not as easy to give up the instinct of getting
more of it everyday.

And why should it be easy? This behaviour meant life or death for millions of
generations.

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Wh1zz
The amount necessary to employ and enable every willing capable mind on the
planet in the mission of ending aging (and, subsequently, mortality). Silly to
most, I'm sure.

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bsvalley
What amount will make you satisfied?

1 billion dollars net, in my bank account.

~~~
jamocon
Why?

