

Ask HN: Female hacker/startup looking for copyright advice - katieben

Hi all - I'm working on dance choreography site. My vision is in the slogan, "Take a Choreo, Leave a Choreo": users will upload their original choreography, and in return, be able to freely user others' dance choreography - for recitals, dance workouts, small productions, etc. I'm a dance enthusiast and teach a few Zumba classes for fun; I started this site because I wanted something like this for myself.<p>Here's the link to my rudimentary prototype: http://choreoshare.com/ . There's no choreography on it yet, because I haven't figured out the legal issues...<p>Specifically - for the videos to really be useful, most of the choreography will need copyrighted audio in the background (Livin' La Vida Loca, for instance), so that people can tell what's happening on particular beats. There's a TON of choreo, with audio, on YouTube; I'm not exactly sure how they do this legally (or if they do).<p>So, a few questions... one, does anyone know of a way to legally include copyrighted audio in choreography videos, short of paying giant royalties? Is there a chance this falls under "fair use" laws, since the videos are meant for teaching purposes? Finally, does anyone have any experience with or knowledge about altering tracks to make them legal? For instance, the choreo could still be useful if it were synthesized somehow, or missing beats, and had just enough of the original structure to show the user how the choreography is intended to line up with points in the song...<p>Or, does the burden of providing legal videos lay enough on the user that I could start to promote the site before resolving all the potential legal issues? Is it better to ask forgiveness than permission and go forth boldly, or watch my back?<p>Many thanks for any advice you can give me. (: - A female hacker
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maxdemarzi
IANAL, but I suggest taking a look at this book:

Making It in the Music Business: The Business and Legal Guide for Songwriters
and Performers.

[http://books.google.com/books?id=r8rU60NzsDMC&pg=PA42...](http://books.google.com/books?id=r8rU60NzsDMC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=altering+songs+to+make+them+legal&source=bl&ots=M2cec0DpKm&sig=Q2A-BDOMvTHhWQ5dLevF2wkhPjA&hl=en&ei=PRxHTeyTG8P6lwfCs6wm&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEsQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q&f=false)

I think in the end you will be sued if you use any non public domain music.
You may be found innocent in court under fair use, parody, education or some
other loophole but it won't be until after buying your lawyer a new boat.

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iuguy
I'm sorry I can't be more help but this really sounds like you need to seek
professional advice on the matter with someone in your jurisdiction. Nobody on
Hacker News is going to know your situation well enough to give you anything
conclusive.

As an aside, is there any particular reason why you're describing yourself as
a female hacker? I'm just curious as to how your sex is relevant (from your
perspective at least) to the discussion.

~~~
katieben
Gotcha, thanks for the input. As far as the female thing, I'll admit it was
partly to get noticed. Sorry if that was a HN faux pas.. though, people do ask
where the female founders are, so here I am! (:

~~~
iuguy
Fair enough. I'd probably avoid doing that in the future if I was you, it
could easily backfire.

Still, best of luck.

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capstone
I know you want to hear different but it's illegal to use copyrighted music
without paying the owners. Those YouTube users who do not opt to set their
video to private are doing it illegally.

Fair use fro educators depends on several factors which I don't think are in
your favor. One, fair use limits the percentage of material that can be used,
and two, fair use must not hurt sales of the music. With your users likely
uploading whole songs, and having the option to obtain paid licenses just like
those for dance teachers and studios, either pre-condition is questionable.

BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC are the 3 orgs for the publishers, composers, and
lyricists in the United States and they do expect choreographers and dance
instructors to have licensing to use the music ( _Grand Rights_ ). So do
recording companies if you plan on using pre-recorded music. You could contact
them and see what they offer.

Otherwise, you could make the choreos available to logged in users only.
Private exchange of videos may be ok, plus it's much less likely the
publishing companies will find out.

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katieben
Thanks so much for the pointers. For now, I'm thinking that one option might
be to just cut the audio out of videos, and expect viewers to figure out how
the choreography lies. If the title says "Livin' La Vida Loca", but the video
contains no audio, surely there wouldn't be legality issues there, would
there?

