
Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists - mpweiher
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/12/berlin-bike-revolution/548297/
======
Improvotter
I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city
introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is
allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a
student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also
get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and
walking the rest of the way. But it has made it so much safer and easier for
cyclists (and people on foot!) to just get around.

Antwerp also recently introduced a measure where only cars with a low amount
of "exhaust gases" (can't really find the proper name as of writing this) are
allowed in the city centre. I haven't been there since, but it's also
something I truly admire going into the future.

I visited San Francisco last year and it was a true nightmare to get around in
Mountain View by bike. I have never felt more unsafe on a bike in my entire
life to be honest. I am driving on a bike without a biking lane next to cars
that are going close to 100km/h. It's truly insane. Visiting other cities in
the US as well have been awful from a cyclist's point of view compared to most
of the European cities and cities from the Netherlands are amazing as well
(something you don't hear very often from a Belgian).

So all in all, please just ban the car in most places in the city imo or do
something like Antwerp that drives (pun intended) people towards electric cars
faster.

~~~
roymurdock
How does Ghent's supply chain/delivery system function? In the US we have huge
vans or semis to deliver inventory.

I was in Zermatt this Summer (no combustion-engine cars allowed) and
everything /everyone is transported around in little electric golf cart type
vehicles to reduce smog, which could block the town's view of the Matterhorn.
Is it similar in Ghent?

~~~
lucozade
Pedestrian-only town centres are getting pretty common.

I can't speak for Ghent but it's fairly normal to have periods, early morning
or late evening, where goods vehicles are allowed access.

It's worth bearing in mind that the centres of a lot of European towns and
cities are fairly small and not very vehicle friendly anyway. One of the
advantages of being pre-industrial is that it can take less work to be pre-
industrial again. I'd expect that, in general, doing this is the US will be
harder than a lot of Europe as the towns just aren't built that way.

------
Svip
Another important point often missed in these discussions is training. If you
take a driving licence in Denmark, a big part of the training is how to deal
with bicyclists. I have also taken a bus driving licence in Denmark, and there
it becomes an even bigger thing.

Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right,
placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you in
the right mirror.

Generally speaking, most other European countries don't have this extensive
training on how to deal with bicyclists for drivers, so bicyclists are
naturally told to watch out for cars on foreign plates (with the exception of
Dutch plates, I suppose). And since their local environment don't usually have
cyclists, drivers don't get to deal with it on a daily basis.

One thing is building the infrastructure, another is getting everyone else on
board.

~~~
laingc
I’m not sure about the explicit training, but drivers in Germany are generally
pretty excellent when it comes to dealing with cyclists.

~~~
Grumbledour
Ha! Good one! Maybe compared with other countries? But that doesn't stop them
from ignoring your right of way, parking in the bike lane, pushing you to the
side at red lights or pushing in front of you dangerously even when its not
you who is blocking traffic, because obviously there is nothing worse than
being stuck behind a cyclist.

Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often
terrible in their behavior on the street, but they at least are less deadly to
other cyclists. So while it could certainly be worse, there is a lot you have
to deal with when sharing the road with drivers who either ignore or outright
hate you.

~~~
laingc
Compared with other countries I’ve lived in, Germany is a dream for cyclists.
Of course, I haven’t cycled in very many countries even within Europe, so it
may well be that Germany is not so great in the grand scheme of things - I
couldn’t tell you.

~~~
smueller1234
As a German having lived in the Netherlands for many years: the Dutch win in
this discipline hands down. Bike lanes that seem like an Autobahn sometimes.
Very aggressive policy to try to discourage cars at all in at least Amsterdam.
Everyone knows cyclists kind of have the right of way (mostly because they
seem to ignore the danger of playing chicken with a car).

I've lived in two major cities in NL and seen a few others. While Amsterdam
clearly went further than others, even the Hague was better for cyclists than
a university town in Germany.

~~~
Fnoord
And the Prime Minister of The Netherlands (Mark Rutte) goes to work in The
Hague with..? A car? Nope, a bicycle.

------
eesmith
"While a few decades ago, many Berlin streets seemed eerily traffic-free for
such a major city"

Let's see, a few decades ago = at least 30 years = no later than 1987. The
Berlin Wall fell in 1989. At that time, West Berlin was an enclave of West
Germany located inside of Easy Germany.

So, perhaps that had something to do with the traffic in Berlin?

------
sharpercoder
I was in Valencia (Spain) a few weeks back. This city is one of the most ideal
cities I have been to for cycling; flat, perfect climate, riverbed running
right through the middle of the city, spacious roads and high density. One of
the inhabitants told me they dedicated cycling lanes a year back or so. That
was visible: They had painted bicycle lanes right over roads & pedestrian
areas. I guess when the Valencian people start to see how much fun cycling
ones life makes, Valencia will become the cycling capital of the world soon
enough.

Berlin has quite some traits for a good cycling city as well. A flat geography
really helps here, along with a willing population.

~~~
kazinator
If the cycling commute is flat, it has to be long to get decent exercise,
because you have to apply a flat-out effort and you cover a lot of ground. If
my bike commute were flat, I'd prefer to be some 14 miles from work rather
than the current 7. Or else I would have to run it (more often).

To me, what would make an area ideal for cycling (if it has good roads and
such) is: dry climate. No rain, no snow.

~~~
kqr
People often seem to miss this. In many ways, cycling is a terrible form of
exercise precisely because it is such an efficient mode of transport.

~~~
rorykoehler
As someone who gets repetitive strain injuries from running and isn't a great
swimmer cycling is a God send. I can go biking 7 days a week. If i need a blow
out then i push a harder gear without dropping cadence... Or i do tabata.

~~~
lmm
Wouldn't being a bad (assuming you mean in the sense of inefficient) swimmer
make it a good form of exercise?

~~~
rorykoehler
Possibly, if i could get myself you swim more than 500m before giving up from
boredom/dislike of drinking chlorine water.

------
_Codemonkeyism
Berlin is a very bad place for cyclists right now.

The governing SPD is a car maker party, always was and always will be.

Working in Wedding near my work where the SPD governed since forever there is
a bicycle lane on the pavement but unmarked for a decade with countless run
ins with pedestrians.

After doing nothing for 50 years there was a referendum and the SPD did a 180
and painted themselves as a cyclist party.

Some - funny - images of the bike situation in Berlin

[http://www.tagesspiegel.de/mediacenter/fotostrecken/berlin/g...](http://www.tagesspiegel.de/mediacenter/fotostrecken/berlin/galerie-
mit-leserbildern-abgefahren-ihre-unbeliebtesten-radstrecken/4031388.html)

~~~
delackner
I’m curious if you have seen more about the plans the article discusses? Talk
of proper physical segregation of bike traffic using bollards sounds very
nice. Copenhagen’s concrete curb separating bike lanes from car lanes is the
gold standard I hope to see more places adopt.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
Copenhagen is a dream, whenever I'm there I admire the bicycle infrastructure.

Berlin often cites Copenhagen for their plans, but call me a pessimist, as
this would mean taking away streets from cars, I can't see a lot of this
happening. It was mostly to get the SPD voted into power.

------
justinator
It's crazy to think: you design a city for people, rather than cars, and the
city becomes more livable.

~~~
a_bonobo
Many European cities are a bit lucky in that regard, they are much older than
US or Australian cities. The European cities are built on top of plans that
were made for pedestrians and horse carriages, with city walls and small
streets.

Muenster, for example, has a beautiful bike circle around the inner city
because that's where the city walls used to be. US and Australian cities are
much younger and don't have such 'restraints' to work with, so they become car
heavy automatically.

~~~
jopsen
That makes no sense... US cities are super lucky to have such wide streets.

If they WANTED to they could easily make dedicated bus and bike lanes that are
safe.

It easy they have so much space. European cities have to almost ban cars, to
make room for bikes...

This is a political issue, where Americans choose not to do something.

~~~
lmm
The US has plenty of space for bikes and pedestrians, but being a cyclist or
pedestrian makes less sense there because the cities are so spread out. All
the space taken up by those highways and parking lots mean that the places
people actually want to go to are much further apart.

~~~
closeparen
People who vote in municipal elections despise anything that looks like
density. If it weren’t for freeways and parking lots, there would still be
massive lawns and open spaces dotted with sparsely packed low rise and mostly
single family buildings.

Parking contributes, but it’s mostly that American towns have at most a few
blocks where European-level density (3-6 story buildings directly adjacent to
each other) is permitted.

Good luck prying the detached house with a backyard out of the typical
American family’s hands. Good luck getting them to consent to a multi family
structure next door.

------
megaman22
Berlin is, in my experience, an incredibly walkable city. Get a U-Bahn pass,
and you can go almost anywhere in an hour; with their double ring and
relatively dense stops, and Prussian train, and even bus scheduling, it's a
breeze. Especially compared to the shitshow in American cities.

~~~
arximboldi
The U-Bahn is good but many of the lines are quite old and the connections
often too sparse, specially compared to other european capitals like Paris or
Madrid. There are often very close areas that take surprisingly long to travel
between without a bike. I always find traveling between northern Neukölln to
the middle of Friedrischain somewhat annoying unless you are very close the
ring or just grab the bike and cut through Gorli. There are lots of examples
like that.

Plus I find the U-Bahn rather expensive (esp. considering how little
investment it seems to get) with very few buying options (only bulk-ticket is
4 rides which saves you very little) and the ticket machines seem to be broken
half of the time and the ones that work are slow as hell (takes like 3 minutes
to print the damn tickets).

The only plus I see (e.g. compared to Madrid) is that the stations are not
very deep underground and often over the ground so it helps people that are
mildly claustrophobic.

~~~
megaman22
I'm coming from Boston, and wilder areas where mass transit is atrocious if
available, so Berlin is amazing. My other experiences in Paris or Amsterdam
are inferior to Berlin.

------
paride5745
Cyclists need to be trained as well.

I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't
even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me.

I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.

~~~
hawski
I hate when cyclists don't yield to people going in or out of a tram or a bus.
They mostly ring at you when you cross the bike lane from bus stop to the bus.
Cars would stop in the same situation as this is sanctified. It happens from
all the places next to Hauptbahnhof and it infuriates me, because there are
far more passengers than cyclists. I know that is because cyclists want to
maintain inertia, but it's just rude.

~~~
mpweiher
Hmm...would you simply walk across the busy street in front of the
Haubptbahnhof and expect the cars to stop for you?

Or would you take the overpass, or wait at the traffic light?

Definitely someone is being rude in the scenario, I don't think it is the
cyclists. (And no, you are not allowed to cross a street just because a bus
stopped).

~~~
matt4077
The bike lanes are often on the sidewalk, right where bus passengers exit. A
stopped Tram legally requires the traffic in the lane to its right to stop.

------
dbolgheroni
Meanwhile, in São Paulo, the mayor is trying very hard to remove bike lanes
already built, and are passing laws that make it a lot harder to build new
ones.

~~~
sevensor
Why on earth? An aunt who used to live there tells me the air pollution is
quite bad -- one would think reducing emissions by encouraging cycling would
be a priority.

~~~
thomasfortes
The previous mayor was from PT, a kinda left-wing party that a good part of
the middle class loves to hate (there are a few good reasons, but the hate at
this point is insane), so the actual mayor won with promises to revert the
policies.

Combine that with the fact that São Paulo is a city where people seems to love
cars more than their relatives and have an upper class that oppose bike lanes
in front of their houses because "people that ride bikes aren't the kind of
people that we want in our neighborhood" and you have a recipe for disaster.

These people (the upper class, not the middle) are also against subway
expansion because it would be easier for people from the poorer regions of the
city to come to their neighborhoods.

It's a mix of car loving, a party hate and prejudice that makes São Paulo a
complete chaotic city when we're talking about transport.

I love São Paulo, have a lot of friends there, but almost everything that is
being done right now seems to be in the opposition of the public interest.

~~~
sevensor
Interesting -- much as I have a chip on my shoulder about spandex cyclists who
look down on bike commuters like me, maybe they have a valuable role to play.
If you can't sell rich people on cycling as an exclusive, upscale activity,
they're going to fight against it and win. The next time some twit blows
through a stop sign and cuts me off while clipped into his $6500 bike, I'll
have to remind myself of this conversation. I'd rather have rich jerks on
bicycles than rich jerks in hummers.

------
ben_w
While it would be great to see Berlin copy the UK cycling capital — Cambridge
is brilliant in that regard — Berlin isn’t particularly bad. I’m looking for
work in Berlin at the moment, and Berlin is less _busy_ per square meter than
any UK city I’ve been to (other than Ely, which shouldn’t count as a city).

Berlin traffic isn’t perfect, but on the other hand it is also more lawful
than UK traffic, and less intimidating than CA traffic.

~~~
crummy
(Off topic but we're hiring in Berlin at Sauce Labs - email me if you want to
know more!)

~~~
ben_w
Thanks for letting me know, however I just checked your website and I’m not a
fit for any of your openings. (I’m looking for iOS… and asking myself if I
should change track again to find work).

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and
Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying.

What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark,
Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female
[0].

In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting
children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't
have to worry about them getting too cold or hot or wet. You can easily
transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that
on a bicycle). The car can easily carry all the diapers and baby food you need
for an outing as well as changes of clothing for inevitable accidents kids
make.

Bikes are awesome for adults without children, cars seem better for those with
children, especially young children.

I wonder if this push to bike friendliness is driven in part by the changing
demographics of more adults without children.

0\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependencies_by_total_fertility_rate)

~~~
fovc
If that were the case you'd expect that families with children in those cities
wouldn't be bike users. In Amsterdam at least they very much were. I lived
next to a primary school where 90+% of parents would show up on bikes to pick
up their kids. You can easily transport 3 kids in a bakfiets

~~~
scythe
That's not statistically valid reasoning. If biking vs driving makes some
people not have kids, but not everyone, then in a city where driving is
prohibitively expensive you'd still expect most parents to be on a bike.
That's because the others didn't switch to cars, they didn't have kids, or
they moved. I don't know what riding with one of those bike chariots is like,
but being confined to a bike already sucks, I assume dragging a kid around
behind you is even worse.

~~~
bkor
You're assuming the cycling is causing people to have less children. It would
be nice to provide some statistically valid sources to explain why you think
that's so.

I live in the Netherlands and your assumption is pretty strange one. Mostly
because it's not one or the other. You can do loads of things by bike while
also having a car. Further, especially now with electric bikes you can
transport an insane amount of children via a bike easily. Meaning: I see
people transporting 5 or 6 children by bike (PS: this is on some fixed
schedule, so not a one off, it is around the same time Mon-Fri).

A bike is often more convenient than a car.

~~~
scythe
>You're assuming the cycling is causing people to have less children. It would
be nice to provide some statistically valid sources to explain why you think
that's so.

No, I'm providing alternate explanations for an observation that the previous
poster claims shows that cycling does not cause people to have less children.
I don't need to prove it happens, just show it's possible. Of course the
"burden of proof" will always be assumed to fall on me because I disagree with
popular opinion.

I hope you enjoy the Netherlands. I never want to live in the Netherlands, and
I'm sick and tired of people trying to turn the places I like into the
Netherlands.

Biking sucks. I do not want to ride a bike. Take your self-righteous crap and
fuck off.

------
kayoone
I did about 5000km in Berlin traffic by bike in the last 2 1/2 years and i
can't count how often car drivers would have hit me without me paying close
attention and having good breaks. At least every second day someone will cut
into the bike lane while turning, not pay enough attention when turning right
on crossings or underestimate speeds. Granted, i am not moving slow, and i
drive a car myself and know that it is sometimes really hard to see bikes
coming from everywhere so i accept these risks as normal, but improvements to
the infrastructure would be awesome, since in many places it really is not
great or outright dangerous. I recently visited Copenhagen and the bike
infrastructure was amazing to see, however the city is 1/5th of Berlins size
and there just is not a lot of car traffic.

------
Tepix
There are plans for a "Radschnellweg" across the Ruhrgebiet (RS1,
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radschnellweg#Nordrhein-
Westfa...](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radschnellweg#Nordrhein-
Westfalen:_Radschnellweg_Ruhr_\(RS1\)) )

Looks like it will take a while longer than anticipated, however.

------
hannob
I have followed the debate for a while and am familiar with the situation. I
wouldn't be overly optimistic yet.

Until now there have been a lot of bold announcements and very little changes.

Some of the things in the article paint a picture much more rosy than reality:
"Meanwhile, the city’s existing bike-lane network—already extensive, but not
always well segregated from car traffic—will be more rigorously protected by
bollards."

The fact is right now bike lanes are never segregated from car traffic in
Berlin. There exist two kinds of bike ways in Berlin: Paintings on the street
and cycleways on the pedestrian sidewalk. The bike lanes on the streets are
often occupied by parking cars, and pedestrians usually walk on the other kind
of cycleway like they don't exist.

------
corpMaverick
I would love to live in a biking city. It gives you a greater opportunity to
live in community. A lot more freedom for the kids, old people, etc. Any
chance any city in the USA to be become like that ?

------
cjsawyer
I live in Fort Collins, Colorado. It’s supposedly the best bike city in the
entire US. I STILL see people narrowly avoid accidents almost daily due to
only about half of the roads having dedicated bike lanes and the insufficient
size of the lanes that do exist. It’s really a disappointment given that
title. I’m glad I have a car.

Edit: On a little research, apparently that’s a very outdated acendote. Good
to know!

------
NelsonMinar
I went looking for details on the new bike plan and found this interesting
article on how hard a time Berlin has had hiring transportation engineers to
develop the plan: [https://www.thelocal.de/20171215/over-a-dozen-engineers-
urge...](https://www.thelocal.de/20171215/over-a-dozen-engineers-urgently-
needed-for-bike-network-in-berlin)

------
agumonkey
related: Paris redesign for the Place de la Bastille, with a lot less roads.
[https://www.api-
site.paris.fr/mairies/public/assets/2017%2F1...](https://www.api-
site.paris.fr/mairies/public/assets/2017%2F11%2FDocument%20pr%C3%A9sentation%20RP%2018_12_2017.pdf)

------
inp
Very good news. Other city should do the same... France is a nightmare for
cyclists.

~~~
megy
Paris isn't too bad, the drivers are used to cyclists and mostly courteous,
even the charles de gaulle roundabout is doable.

------
billfruit
Are they planning a dockless bicycle hire system like the very convenient
Mobike system in China?

------
SirLJ
I hope they install a lot of showers...

~~~
goldesel
Stinking is actually a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle. With the right
kind of cycling infrastructure, riding a bike in flat terrain is a low
intensity exercise to which the body soon adapts. It can become quite relaxing
and meditative. Exemplary video of cycling in the netherlands:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb0QjASuuqI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb0QjASuuqI)

~~~
ekianjo
> Stinking is actually a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle.

any source for this extraordinary claim?

~~~
sliverstorm
I believe your parent is alluding to the fact that if you are regularly active
& get exercise, biking at an easy pace on flat land in good weather won't even
cause you to break a sweat, whereas if you sit on the couch all day it will.
(Hopefully don't need a source for this)

~~~
comicjk
I would certainly like a source. As far as I can see, the only way to sweat
less over time would be to lose weight. A more-conditioned cyclist still does
the same amount of work and thus produces the same amount of heat.

Source: from the Washington Post, "athletes tend to sweat sooner and more."
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/sweat-
its-...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/sweat-its-what-
makes-athletes-
cool/2015/08/18/9d502eac-41d2-11e5-8ab4-c73967a143d3_story.html?utm_term=.0215a7709370)

~~~
sbierwagen
I've been bike commuting in Seattle for ten years and I don't sweat during my
commute, except on my way home during the summer.

