
Xerox calls off $6.1B sale to Fujifilm - danso
https://www.ft.com/content/faccc538-56f9-11e8-bdb7-f6677d2e1ce8
======
psetq
Somewhat off topic, but If you're interested in the history of modern
computing and not already familiar with the Xerox PARC [0] story, you should
know that Xerox has a fascinating history of computer research innovation, and
is often regarded as one of the real major driving forces behind the P.C. as
we know it.

An interesting account (as well as a great deal more about the rest of the
history of modern computers) is documented in the book "The Dream Machine"
[1], which I highly recommend if you find this sort of stuff interesting.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_(company)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARC_\(company\))

[1]
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/722412.The_Dream_Machine](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/722412.The_Dream_Machine)

~~~
vvanders
Dealers of Lightning[0] is also pretty fantastic and covers PARC in good
detail.

[0]
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1101290.Dealers_of_Light...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1101290.Dealers_of_Lightning)

~~~
ghostcluster
Dealers of Lighting is great, and is good as an audiobook as well.

------
GnarfGnarf
I worked for Xerox in 1979. They were totally focused on copiers. The
management structure in the field had no idea what to do with the new
technology. Classic Innovator's Dilemma.

Branch staff found out about new Xerox products in the trade press, not from
sources inside the company. Xerox withheld crucial technical information from
its customers.

Every new hire was issued a copy of "The Billions Nobody Wanted", a great book
that ironically warned against the very malady that Xerox succumbed to.

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/cfPJC](http://archive.is/cfPJC)

------
lunaru
Can anyone close to the Xerox/Fujifilm situation comment on why this
matters/doesn't matter/is relevant?

~~~
mathattack
Two old tech companies want to merge. An activist investor blocked this,
figuring there is more to be made milking the technology on the way down. This
can happen in software too.

~~~
sho
Is fujifilm really "on the way down"? They seem pretty well diversified with
some good product lines. Hell, I own one of their recent cameras.

Xerox I won't argue with, but they're still not exactly on death watch. Just
get the sense your comment is a little negative, like they've both obviously
failed and all that is left is milking the dying husks. Fujifilm could quite
likely outlast facebook. It will almost certainly outlast the likes of
snapchat, IMO. Old != bad.

~~~
weaksauce
Fujifilm also is not just electronics.

~~~
calypso
I even use their film still. Granted they are discontinuing most of their film
lines this year but still a very relevant company, especially with their
mirrorless cameras

~~~
paulmd
Disappointing, but unfortunately not surprising. They have been winding down
their film production for a while now. First it was Astia and some of the
oddball LF sizes, then it was FP100C in 4x5, then the 3x4, then FP3000B, and
it just keeps rolling on.

I've been expecting this for a while and have a good stash of film tucked away
that will carry me for quite a while. I have about 150 rolls of various slide
films in 120 and maybe 200 rolls of B+W in 120 and 35mm. I'll probably still
try to tuck away another 100 rolls or so in the deep freezer if I can. Unlike
FP-100C, slide+negative films can be stored for a long time (practically
indefinitely) if kept cool/frozen.

At this point I am getting worried about how long E-6 processing will be
around though. There are DIY kits but they are not archival-grade stable.

Fuji is also terrible at communicating these discontinuations to their
customers. Several times now it's simply been "oops, we're out, this will be
the last shipment", and only to their Asia distribution chain at that.

~~~
Aloha
If no one is buying it - or not enough to sustain production, its going to go
away.

~~~
paulmd
Kodak "rightsized" their film production a few years ago, and film sales are
actually on an incline since then (both due to enthusiasts and professional
cinematographers). They're actually _bringing back_ various classic film
stocks as well as introducing new ones based on modern R&D. Ilford has shed
their financial legacy (and toxic waste-dump of a site) and is doing better
these days too.

[https://www.dpreview.com/news/9503675822/analog-revival-
incr...](https://www.dpreview.com/news/9503675822/analog-revival-increase-in-
film-sales-spurs-kodak-to-bring-back-ektachrome)

[https://www.dpreview.com/news/1282034127/kodak-alaris-is-
bri...](https://www.dpreview.com/news/1282034127/kodak-alaris-is-bringing-
back-t-max-p3200-high-speed-b-w-film)

[https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/gr...](https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/great-
film-renaissance-2017)

Fuji just can't get their act together, and to be honest they've never been a
very well-run company. Amazing products (best-in-class film, cameras, lenses,
etc) but _extremely_ shitty marketing and distribution, particularly outside
the Asia market. They're _finally_ sorta getting it together with the digital
side of the company (the X-series are great and have a big following in
NA/Europe) but the film side has been a mess for 50+ years. Probably a lesson
in there for the entrepreneurs of HN - along with the importance of producing
the appropriate amount of product.

The really aggravating thing is their instant packfilms (peel-apart Polaroid
film) - they literally are making the emulsion anyway for their Instax series
(which have been selling like crazy for years), they just need to produce
different sizes of film, which has traditionally not been A Big Deal for film
companies, up until Fuji made it one. They could increase their volume quite a
bit if they would just restart production of the standard film sizes that
Polaroid, MF, and LF shooters have been using for decades, but they only make
the proprietary one that fits their cameras.

~~~
davidgay
> Fuji just can't get their act together, and to be honest they've never been
> a very well-run company.

This is a more than strange statement to make in a thread mentioning Kodak,
where one of those two companies successfully managed the transition from film
to digital, and the other went bankrupt.

[https://leaderonomics.com/business/kodak-vs-fujifilm-
success...](https://leaderonomics.com/business/kodak-vs-fujifilm-success-
failure) is the first hit on "fujifilm vs kodak", but there's quite a few
there with the same message...

~~~
ghaff
Fujifilm didn't so much manage the transition from film to digital as manage
the transition from film to other things that could make use of their
technical capabilities in making film.

[https://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/01/how-
fujif...](https://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/01/how-fujifilm-
survived)

Not to take away from their cameras. I use them and am a fan but they're
pretty much a niche.

------
crb002
Surprised that Xerox hasn't gotten into Docusign, industrial 3D
printing/scanning, PDF automation, general small manufacturing robotics ...

~~~
csteinbe
Hah. I figured Xerox was dead, but didn't know it yet back in 2011 when they
outsourced their product engineering to HCL
([https://www.marketwatch.com/story/xerox-explores-
outsourcing...](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/xerox-explores-outsourcing-
with-hcl-technologies-2011-05-24)). You can't enter new markets if you don't
own your own engineering.

