
Privacy issues with the “Hugging Face” chatbot for teens - pmcpinto
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/dont-send-your-selfies-to-this-creepy-chatbot-for-teens
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noxToken
As expected, that didn't really answer the question. The co-founder just gave
a soft answer. FTA:

> _[Hugging Face co-founder Clément Delangue] told me that the app asks for a
> selfie because the team discovered that users wanted to send selfies to
> their chatbot friend.

"Selfies, for teenagers, are the main way of communicating emotions," Delangue
said. "So we implemented this feature as a way for users to communicate with
the AI."_

So it asks for a selfie, but it doesn't really need a selfie. Are you able to
actually decline it, or is a picture with a face a requirement? I also don't
quite understand this last bit:

> _Asking for a selfie automatically was for simplicity 's sake, he explained.
> "We don't feel like we need to make the experience way more complex,"
> Delangue said, "and 90 percent of the users are using it pretty
> seamlessly."_

What does "simplicity's sake" mean? He also states that users want to send the
chatbot a selfie. That's fine but how does asking for it up front make any of
the communication process any more simplified? I'm not saying these guys are
up to some nefarious scheme (though it certainly seems like there's an
ulterior motive - benign or not), but it doesn't make sense to me.

~~~
deathhand
Because a lot can be determined with a picture of a face.(age, race, and sex)
If their goal is targeted advertising(which it is)this info is automatically
filled out vs voluntary submission.

This is just my armchair hypothesis of course.

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jdormit
I dunno, this doesn't seem any creepier than Snapchat... They built a business
where people send them free training data for their facial recognition ML.

~~~
oculusthrift
i'm almost certain they are just using a simple viola jones type face detector
that doesn't need additional training

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mirimir
I can't read "Hugging Face" without thinking "Alien" ;)

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jtruk
The lack of regard for privacy is reflected in their beta signup page [1],
which asks for age and phone number, and submits over HTTP connection.

[1] [http://huggingface.co/](http://huggingface.co/)

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hvs
_It 's not a pic fool. Take a pic from the keyboard!_

I'm sorry, is that English? I have no idea what that sentence means.

~~~
mbel
I guess that: "You fool! It is not a picture. Take a picture using supplied UI
widget that resides in place where one would expect software keyboard." sounds
less appealing to teenagers :)

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ianai
And lost on me is any reason anyone would want to use this chatbot? Does it at
some point become an interesting conversationalist?

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JohnLeTigre
I wonder if they collect exif metadata (which may contain geolocation). This
is creepy.

~~~
mirimir
One would expect so. Would be dumb not to, no?

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nkrisc
I thought, at not even thirty, I was still young. Reading about this chat bot
made realize I'm a lot older than I thought I was.

~~~
coldpie
Yeah, I'm the same age, and I had a really hard time even understanding this
article.

What does this thing do? Why would someone use it? What expectations would a
user have for how their data will be used given that context? Does this
article claim those expectations are being violated? I have no idea.

Guess it's time to buy a porch and a rocking chair.

~~~
jszymborski
I mean, the appeal is the same of SmarterChild[0] when that was a thing on
MSN, or even ELIZA[1], if you want to go prehistoric. I had a moderate amount
of fun with both of them when I was younger, trying to trip them up and
testing their limits.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmarterChild](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmarterChild)

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA)

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M_Grey
I have to be honest, Louis C.K. is looking more and more wise and moderate by
the day. Don't let your young teens have smartphones, even when all of their
friends have one. I realize that's incredibly difficult, but no one said that
parenting would be easy, and clearly you can't count on anyone else.

~~~
Freak_NL
> Don't let your young teens have smartphones, even when all of their friends
> have one.

That's a nice way to get your child ostracised by the group. Once a teen
leaves elementary not having a smartphone (specifically Android or IOS) is the
kiss of death in this modern age.

~~~
M_Grey
That's a very _very_ weak argument for conforming to a potentially harmful set
of behaviors, and an old argument at that. "Go to church or your neighbors
will shun you!"

What an absurd amount of power and choice to cede to companies and people who
do _not_ care about you.

~~~
Freak_NL
Don't mistake that observation for my agreement with the status quo. I am
fairly pessimistic about the way smartphones are invading our lives. And
personally, I own a smartphone that doesn't even run most 'apps', because it
isn't an Android or IOS smartphone — and I am fine with that, because I can
handle the consequences (such as they are).

But pragmatically speaking, what alternative do you have with a twelve year
starting their secondary education? Do you want your child to be the only one
in class without a smartphone? Kids in middle/high school use apps (WhatsApp
etc.) to stay in touch — not just for gossip and chat, but also for
coordination of class assignments and social gatherings — and you want to
exclude your child from this?

It would be more humane to just send them to school in dungarees and wooden
clogs with a 'kick me' sign stuck on their backs for good measure…

I'm sure that there lots of places where the majority of a class of twelve
year old teens has no smartphone at all, but that is becoming rare in
developed countries. Sure, if you could band together with other parents you
might be able to come up with a different approach, but that's not what's
happening.

~~~
M_Grey
What you're describing sounds difficult, but ultimately something that can be
managed. By contrast I would be concerned about the amount of time a lot of
people of all ages spend on cells for RSI reasons alone. When you add a
teenage sense of risk and impulse control, things like the SnapChat leaks are
notable only for their relative rarity.

Then you have this kind of endemic bullshit:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13930707](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13930707)

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Kiro
Privacy aside, isn't the whole point of the bot to send it selfies? The
article makes it sound like it's some sneaky scam.

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nulagrithom
Is the phrase "privacy issues" referring to the supposed bug that prevented
the chatbot from sending its privacy policy?

I'm not really sure what this article is about. There's a chatbot out there
that asks for selfies. The rest is FUD.

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dswalter
I've seen UNIX tools that were more robustly designed chatbots.

~~~
StreakyCobra
Emacs psychotherapist?

Can be tried online here:
[http://www.zenjero.net/morezen/doctor/](http://www.zenjero.net/morezen/doctor/)

~~~
DrScump
I don't get it. I tried:

    
    
      my imaginary friend dumped me; this has damaged my sense of self-worth.
    

twice. Once, I got a random partial sentence; the second time, I just got "Are
you sure that that?"

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ajma
I sent them a picture of Donald Trump and the reply was "nice selfie"

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pdelbarba
This is creepy and all but why would anyone ever actually want to use this
product? If I wanted to talk to a robot there are tons of much better chat
bots.

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philociraptor
Wow. Just wow. That seems really sketchy.

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andrewclunn
It's not a pic fool. Take a pic from the keyboard!

~~~
bitwize
That line should be read in a Mr. T voice for maximum effect.

