
SQLite updated Code of Conduct - Daviey
https://sqlite.org/codeofconduct.html?latest
======
Roritharr
With the pressure put on antirez, Linus and now Dwayne Richard Hipp, I'm
getting nervous when imagining of falling outside of the "accepted social
norms".

The web was always a rough place, but it was a place that allowed separate
cultures with different standards to develop. Lately it feels like this is
being actively demolished, where only places of anonymity (4chan f.e.) or
banality (Facebook Comments) are used to discuss contrarian opinions.

The biggest indicator that something chilling is happening to me is that I
feel obliged to underline that I'm not in favor of the ideas postulated in
DRHs previous CoC...

~~~
ocharles
When CoC's exist to foster inclusivity, exactly which "contrarian opinions"
are you feeling are being suppressed? That's it's OK to harass or exclude
minority groups? I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but the purpose
of a CoC is to create a constructive and progressive environment. A CoC is
project wide, not internet wide. This is not an attack on freedom of speech,
but providing a stable environment and refusing to give a platform to those
who's views do not align with a project's. And a project choosing what views
it wishes to platform is entirely within its rights.

~~~
lliamander
> And a project choosing what views it wishes to platform is entirely within
> its rights.

Ah, so you are OK with their original CoC, right?

~~~
thrmsforbfast
As a Christian, I don't have any objection to The Rule.

As an American who believes in the separation of church and state, I
definitely understand and sympathize with the instinct that, although
religious laws often provide good moral guidance for secular codes of conduct,
the two serve distinct purposes. You don't have to reject the ten commandments
to recognize why we need more graularity and detail in actual laws regarding
murder.

As a developer, I recognize that there are concrete and specific ways in which
documents like The Rule fail to meet the pragmatic needs of a code of conduct,
including:

1\. clearly delineating acceptable from unacceptable behavior

2\. establishing a reporting mechanism

3\. codifying specific consequences for doing things that were clearly
delineated as unacceptable.

A perhaps important thing to realize about monkish orders is that they were
intrinsically self-selecting; you didn't need to worry about the "spirit" vs.
the "letter" of the law. Monks did not need to worry about people
misunderstanding ambiguously stated laws (e.g. "love thy neighbor"). The
process of joining a monk-hood or a a religion includes an
indoctrination/inculcation/instruction into the "spirit" of the law. Sending a
pull or posting on a message list is not even remotely similar.

I.e., if you want to extend the development community beyond a small a close-
knit group who understands each other, then you need something closer to laws
than to religious commandments.

~~~
lliamander
> if you want to extend the development community beyond a small a close-knit
> group who understands each other...

But of course, the development community for SQLite has always been, and
likely will continue to be, a close-knit group who understands each other.
Which means that the requirements for a "true" code of conduct (the benefits
of which have yet to be proven) don't really apply here.

------
esaym
I am genuinely curious how having a COC does something like "foster
inclusivity"? I mean, you do realize it is just words right? And not just any
words, but words that were forced upon the maintainer/project leader to
include. Anyone have evidence of pull requests being rejected because the
author was a woman or someone from the east? Personally I haven't, and I can
guarantee some text in a file isn't going to help any.

What we actually have, is the other way around. Time and time again, an author
of a project is accused of being racist if they don't have a COC without any
evidence at all[0]. How is that OK? Who has the SQLite project offended that
warranted people to contact monetary supporters of the SQLite project and try
to get them to pull monetary support based on nothing else than they don't
have a COC?

We must remember that it is the individual that is sovereign, and not any one
group or minority. You can divide a finite group of people an infinite number
of ways, but eventually what you end up with is an individual. COC's go
against this as they are always pushed by a group with a group agenda that is
steeped in tribalism. People need to wake up.

[0]: [http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/10/exposing-true-face-of-
sjw...](http://voxday.blogspot.com/2015/10/exposing-true-face-of-sjw.html)

~~~
dwaltrip
> you do realize it is just words right?

Words do things... They can have many possible impacts on the world. If you
didn't believe this, you wouldn't have written your comment!

------
radiator
This is sad. It is clear that the SQLite creator's heart was with the previous
version of the CoC, and that although the CoC was only obligatory for
developers, other people from outside came and forced their politics on the
owners of the project.

~~~
dwaltrip
As a developer, the old CoC is a pretty massive turn off for me. Even if I was
a Christian, I think it I would still find it quite out of place. I can't
think of anything that is gained by attempting to proselytize through the
development process of a widely used, very general purpose software project.
Perhaps viewing it as "proselytizing" is not exactly right, but it is
certainly taking some kind of stand.

To be fair, I've never contributed to SQLite. I also don't condone any nasty
attacks against the project owners -- that is inexcusable.

I'm sure they didn't have bad intentions. But as they say, the road to hell is
paved with good intentions.

~~~
baud147258
Except the old CoC only applied to the (closed) group of SQLite contributors,
not users of SQLite (including developers using SQLite in a project)

------
thinkingemote
I find it noteworthy that a great many comments on social media (and some
here) seem to be offensive to the religious nature of the previous CoC and
it's creators. And yet many of the CoC that are around prohibit any bad words
against a person's religious identity.

It's almost as if they are unaware that their own behaviour would be deemed
negative within many progressive CoCs.

~~~
krapp
No one here is objecting to the SQLite creators' religious identity, only to
the relevance or utility of their having added religious language to their
software documentation.

------
the_common_man
It used to have religious/god related stuff.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20180315125217/https://sqlite.or...](https://web.archive.org/web/20180315125217/https://sqlite.org/codeofconduct.html)

``` First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul,
and your whole strength. Then, love your neighbor as yourself. Do not murder.
Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not covet. Do not bear false witness.
Honor all (1 Peter 2:17). Do not do to another what you would not have done to
yourself. Deny oneself in order to follow Christ. Chastise the body. Do not
become attached to pleasures. Love fasting. Relieve the poor. Clothe the
naked. ... ```

Edit: why the downvotes? I am actually providing information on what actually
changed. I didn't write the stuff above. This is what used to be on that
website.

~~~
_iyig
You omit the most important part:

“The code of conduct for developers of the SQLite project is the 72
"instruments of good works" from the 6th century Rule of St. Benedict, shown
below. This code of conduct has proven its mettle in use by many thousands of
communities for 1,500 years, and has served as a baseline for many civil law
codes since the time of Charlemagne.

The SQLite developers are not monks. None are able to adhere perfectly to this
code of conduct. All will fall short. The goal of this code of conduct is not
to describe the minimum acceptable behavior below which none transgress, but
rather to describe the highest standard of behavior to which all aspire. We
grant grace to one another and request forgiveness and promise to amend our
ways when we stumble.

This code of conduct applies to the SQLite developers only. Everyone is free
to use the SQLite source code, object code, and/or documentation without
having to agree with the behavioral standards outlined below. You are
encouraged to follow these standards as in doing so you will live a happier,
healthier, and more productive life. Nevertheless, this is a choice that you
must make for yourself, and is not a precondition for using SQLite.”

As further explained on the mailing list:

“I have tried to make that point clear in the preface to the CoC, that we have
no intention of enforcing any particular religious system on anybody, and that
everyone is welcomed to participate in the community regardless of ones
religious proclivities. The only requirement is that while participating in
the SQLite community, your behavior not be in direct conflict with time-tested
and centuries-old Christian ethics. Nobody has to adhere to a particular
creed. Merely demonstrate professional behavior and all is well.”

As a Founder’s Code of Ethics, I think the Code of St. Benedict works quite
well. I’m happy with today’s decision.

------
scblock
To clarify, the previous, and still linked from this page, document is not
“some Christian bullshit” that the SQLite founders made up, it is a from a
very old Christian text, as explained on the linked page. I do believe that
adopting an actual code of conduct is a good move.

------
s9w
I just wish we could keep software free of politics. If anyone honestly thinks
this is a harmless little text they're incredible naive. There is less and
less software left without these heavy agendas. It's a sad day

------
eli
Pleased to see this. I was very disappointed by the previous CoC, which seemed
not entirely serious and, in any event, did not address any of the things a
modern CoC is supposed to address nor provide any mechanism for enforcement.
I'm glad they found a way to keep it around as a "Code of Ethics" in tandem
with a meaningful Code of Conduct. I'm sure they knew (and some of the
comments here demonstrate) that this would not be universally popular.

------
zzo38computer
I really don't care much this way or other way. Either way, I still use this
software, and sometimes post bug reports.

------
malvosenior
And with that another bit of whimsy and individual thought dies in our
industry.

People who push CoCs may be effectively silencing people in the short term but
resentment is building. I think we need a new collaboration model that has
some immunity to interlopers. I just don’t know what that is yet, but it’s
coming. My love for technology is as strong as ever but I never want to be
part of a “community” with such draconian social rules as what we’ve seen the
past 5 years or so.

~~~
eli
You're worried about open source projects becoming too welcoming?

~~~
malvosenior
There’s nothing welcoming about forcing project maintainers to do things.

~~~
krapp
Project maintainers are often forced to conform to style practices, run tests,
follow rules about commenting, etc.

I don't see why it's so "draconian" to expect maintainers to be civil as well.
That used to be considered simple professional courtesy.

~~~
pritambaral
> I don't see why it's so "draconian" to expect maintainers to be civil as
> well.

If only it were just that.

> That used to be considered simple professional courtesy.

And yet, some people are demanding projects adopt codified sets of rules on
what is acceptable, what is unacceptable, what will be tolerated, what will
not be tolerated, even what will obligate maintainers to take action or face
repercussions themselves.

Some CoC activists (especially the "Contributor Covenant" and "Post-
Meritocracy Manifesto" people) have themselves acted in ways beyond
incivility, sometimes even emphatically and proudly, that would violate the
very sets of rules they were trying to push on projects.

This is a political movement (and I'm not saying that that's bad) that is
quite far removed from just asking projects to ask people to be civil,
courteous, and professional.

------
lonelyw0lf
I guess i cannot use SQlite anymore :)

~~~
p4bl0
Why is that? Do you feel oppressed by not being allowed to harass other people
based on gender/race/religion etc. when contributing to SQLite? Or is it
having to be respectful in general?

~~~
lliamander
The original CoC never allowed such things to begin with:

> Do not bear false witness.

> Honor all.

> Do not do to another what you would not have done to yourself.

> Do not forsake charity.

and so on.

------
simlevesque
I'm glad that they removed the god bullshit.

~~~
rmdoss
Have any info on that?

~~~
rudedogg
The original is linked -
[https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html](https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html)

~~~
rmdoss
Thanks. I remember seeing that, but thought was a joke.

~~~
catawbasam
Why? It is quite straightforward.

