
Supplements are a $30B racket - woobar
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/supplements-are-a-30-billion-racket-heres-what-experts-actually-recommend/
======
hprotagonist
Sure are. The real crux of the issue for me is the wild lack of quality
control.

I'm broadly in favor of the FDA and other regulatory agencies, if for no other
reason than they have the power to require that you're really selling what you
claim you are, and enormous power to punish you if you don't.

That this is not the case for supplements is largely the fault of Orrin Hatch.

~~~
driverdan
> The real crux of the issue for me is the wild lack of quality control.

The bigger issue is that most do nothing and are actively promoted as doing
things they don't do.

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hprotagonist
That's number two.

The FDA's mandates are safety and efficacy, in that order. It's still bad, but
I'm way more OK with people taking sham pills that contain exactly binder and
nothing else, instead of taking sham pills that contain lead and mold.

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claar
This topic tends to be flamebait unfortunately, and the title of this article
doubly so. A better title might be "Harvard releases vitamin and mineral
supplements guide for clinicians".

The actual guide is more informative than the original link as well in my
opinion:
[https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2672264](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2672264)

~~~
nwah1
Thank you. And if you compare the recommendations to supplement sales, it is
probably much more aligned than the headline would suggest. Sales of vitamin
D, B12, folic acid, etc would total in the billions of dollars, and thus make
up a large percent of the industry.

But this guide isn't comprehensive at all, and doesn't go into the evidence
for the multitude of vitamins, whereas other researchers have tried to
synthesize more of that data. [1]

[1] [https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/snake-
oil-...](https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/snake-oil-
scientific-evidence-for-health-supplements/)

(I wouldn't say it is exhaustive by any means, but this is the correct framing
of the debate)

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LinuxBender
Disclaimer: Unpopular opinion ahead.

It's taken me a lifetime to figure out the combination of vitamins, enzymes,
amino acids and other compounds that I need to compensate for what I lack in a
diet. If I followed any one websites advise, I would have serious health
problems. I have also learned over time that doctors actually learn very
little about this in school. They know even less about the gut. I believe that
each person needs to review and study what they eat vs. what they need and use
trial and error. You will find side effects to different combinations of
supplements. Some supplements also affect medication you may be taking, so
study that as well. Don't stop when you find some wordpress site. Look for
multiple government studies that explain testing methods, numbers of
participants, human vs. animal testing, etc. I found several studies that
directly conflicted with each other on some compounds.

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crystaln
The idea that the lack of a rigorous specific study indicates supplementation
doesn't work is flawed. The entire Eastern system of medicine evolved based on
shared experience and knowledge, and ample experience exists with many
supplements to support their use, even if not the sort of rigorous evidence we
might like. Sure this opens the gate to fraud and self-deception, however the
level of personal experience shared on the internet is unprecedented in human
history and certainly worth referring to when deciding on the efficacy of
supplements.

Further, scientific studies are very often flawed. I trust how I feel at least
as much as I trust a study.

~~~
jimmies
>The entire Eastern system of medicine evolved based on shared experience and
knowledge, and ample experience exists with many supplements to support their
use...

Oh -- you don't tell me the entire Western system of medicine evolved isn't
based on shared experience and knowledge!

The difference is the Western system has a systematic way of filtering noises
from anecdotal experiences. It's called science: One of the most important
pillars is reproducibility. You need to know what the chances that something
will work, how statistically significant the result of the method you propose
is. Any of the ideas such as "eating roots and leaves," "expose it to X-rays,"
"pray to the Gods," "spit on it," "take supplements," "open it up and cut it
with a sterile knife," "drinking rhino horn powder," method, at the beginning,
can equally seem like great ideas -- and we should test them all.

But so far, some of the "take supplements" routes, as pointed out by the
article, don't work way too well. The Eastern system, in general, doesn't work
too well either. If it did, Eastern people with cancer wouldn't have to go
through chemo.

~~~
ci5er
The Eastern thing worked for Steve Jobs! Oh, wait...

~~~
phkahler
There we go again with the all-or-nothing thinking.

~~~
ci5er
Sorry. I'm a little bit raw (at the moment) at the (average) quality of advice
I get from doctors in Taiwan and Japan.

EDIT: That being said - almost all of the advice from the Japanese doctors is
allopathic.

~~~
phkahler
Funny, I'm a bit miffed at some of the ones in the US ;-)

~~~
ci5er
I could easily see that! :-O

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wuliwong
"There’s just no clear evidence to prove that they have any benefit."

Then...

"One large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled US trial in men found
that some who took multivitamins had a slight reduction in total cancer risk
(particularly those with previous nutritional deficiencies and cancer
diagnoses). But the trial needs to be repeated with women and more baseline
data of nutrition status."

This is some really confusing writing but it sure sounds like there's some
evidence that the multivitamin is helpful.

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elhudy
I use examine.com when choosing which supplements to take (which are very
few). I had hoped that the underlying article would discuss fish oil but it
appears to be out of scope.

~~~
sicnus
Oooh, another Fish oil user!

It helped with my cholesterol I know.

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nwah1
"Supplements" is such a broad category that to make sweeping assertions about
them is absurd.

~~~
mathgeek
Kind of like saying that all GMO's have health benefits. Must be National
Broad Statement Headline Day.

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malkia
And there is still homeopathy sold in the stores... You are fuckin lyin' to
people... okay... i get it - placebo!!!

~~~
ci5er
Somehow it appears that you tried to make a point. What is it? That placebos
heal too?

~~~
malkia
Nah, it's the usual excuse for using homeopathy - as it works for those that
believe it works.. Maybe! I dunno... I'm just very skeptical (without any
proof)

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madeuptempacct
The title is misleading - the article covers the fact that some supplements
are useful. Yes, there is a ton of crap, but that doesn't make the entire
industry a racket, just as fast food doesn't make the food industry a racket.

~~~
cornholio
Fast food is still food, tasty, safe and nutritious - albeit with a
macronutrient profile that is unsuitable for modern life styles when eaten in
quantity. Fast food is not the problem, lack of awareness of how to use food
is the problem.

Unlike food (or fast food) most supplements are not fulfilling any
biologically useful function when consumed by otherwise healthy people -
unless we consider placebo effects as biologically useful. They are
unnecessary for the functioning of the human body, unregulated, untested and
driven by often unscientific claims that don't have to be proven clinically.

When the majority or large portion of the sales are related to deceptive
marketing of useless products, it's fair to say a market is a "racket" as a
way to alarm the public, notwithstanding the many honest producers and
effective products.

~~~
ci5er
This sounds interesting. Can you break down your embedded assumptions, claims
and conclusions in bullet-form? No matter how many times I re-read this, I am
not able to follow it front-to-back.

EDIT: I love this line -- "lack of awareness of how to use food is the
problem."

