
Zucchinis linked to rare poisonings in England - lightlyused
https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2020/07/zucchinis-linked-to-rare-poisonings-in-england/
======
mdani
I had the misfortune of eating one of these bitter Zucchini flowers. It was
extremely bitter and I could not even swallow the single bite I took. But it
was enough to make me sick for two days. I couldn't even drink plain water
since it caused instant vomit and/or diarrhea. Those were some of the worst
days I had ever been through.

The plant was from my own backyard, but it was stressed due to some insect /
squirrel eating many leaves and buds. Possibly that triggered the plant to
make the toxins that keep predators away.

~~~
pvaldes
Maybe you poisoned yourself trying to get rid of the bud eaters. Where you
using a slugcide?

EDIT... nah, I'm reading about the compound and could be perfectly the plant.
Today I learned that the Cucurbitaceae make some of the most bitter substances
known among vegetables, wow.

------
jw1224
This being England, the title should of course say “courgettes”. Nobody calls
them zucchinis over here!

~~~
capableweb
This actually being the internet, shouldn't the title use whatever is most
commonly used in the world at large? Someone who knows the word courgette,
probably knows the word zucchini. While someone who knows the word zucchini,
might not know courgette. I certainly didn't know about courgette until just
one minute ago.

~~~
Dayshine
> Someone who knows the word courgette, probably knows the word zucchini.
> While someone who knows the word zucchini, might not know courgette.

I don't see why this would be the case.

More accurate would be:

Someone who knows the word courgette, might not know the word zucchini. And
someone who knows the word zucchini, might not know courgette.

~~~
pvaldes
Or Cucurbita pepo pepo, the Intergalactic, planetary, planetary, term

------
amacbride
Today I learned about cucurbitacins.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbitacin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbitacin)

~~~
austincheney
Even more interesting is Naringin.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naringin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naringin)

This is a toxic flavonoid found in a variety of common fruits. It has been
well known since the mid 80s when grapefruits became known for killing elderly
people in nursing homes. Last year the FDA posted an advisory not to drink any
fruit juice with powerful medications.

I remember this came up in conversation last year on HN when people were
deeply offended when I pointed out that eating gold, an extreme heavy metal,
is toxic especially with certain food combinations and then a week later
reading about the FDA advisory on CNN.

~~~
perl4ever
"How to Use Edible Gold Leaf for Dishes That Are Fancy AF"

[https://www.chowhound.com/food-news/194092/edible-gold-
leaf-...](https://www.chowhound.com/food-news/194092/edible-gold-leaf-how-to-
use-it/)

~~~
austincheney
Under ideal conditions pure gold is not toxic because the human GI tract does
not chemically react with pure gold. Pure gold become reactive to human GI
tract under a variety of conditions from certain food/drug combinations that
alter GI tract chemical sensitivity, certain microbial interference, and
reactive impurities in the metal. Once gold becomes poisonous it is extremely
toxic due to its density and persistence in the body where gold poisoning is
similar to lead poisoning but substantial more severe.

There was even a HouseMD show episode where a woman was poisoning her husband
with trace amounts of gold. The show is complete fiction but the chemistry is
accurate.

Why take that risk? If you want to knowingly eat poison I recommend cyanide.
It has a wonderfully sweet and nutty flavor profile and is incredibly cheap
and common. The most common nutritive source is peach and apricot nuts.
Furthermore, the human body requires trace amounts of cyanide for microbial
interactions to form vitamin B12. Gold has no nutritional value.

------
sangfroid_bio
Organic chemistry and neuroscience are complex. FWIW soursop has also been
linked to causing Parkinson's like syndromes due to neuro toxicity.

~~~
nojs
Wow, for anyone else curious:

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-
dentistry/...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-
dentistry/soursop)

> Fruits have high polyphenol content, and regular consumption is linked with
> beneficial properties such as anticancer, anti-leishmanial, and antidiabetic
> activities. Contradictorily, consumption of soursop fruit is correlated with
> the development of neurodegenerative disease (Parkinson disease), which is
> attributed to the presence of annonacin in the seeds.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
But soursop seeds are not eaten?

FWIW, this French study concluded that there's no evidence to support a
connection:
[http://www.anses.fr/sites/default/files/documents/NUT2008sa0...](http://www.anses.fr/sites/default/files/documents/NUT2008sa0171.pdf)

------
raincom
It is known to subsistence farmers in Asia. Often times, they see cucumbers
grown off of seeds that are not planted. They taste it for bitterness, then
eat; otherwise, throw them out. This 'knowledge' is passed between, down,
generations and people. Hobby farming doesn't have that.

------
dylan604
I knew there was some scientific reason why I don't like zucchinis! I tried
having this conversation with the parental units for years (40 years ago), but
they'd never listen!

~~~
cmclaughlin
I just made zucchini fritters couple nights ago and I would bet most would
like them. Shredded them with potatoes and squeezed most of the water out.
Mixed with eggs, garbanzo bean flour and salt. Deep fried and served with
yogurt as a dipping sauce. That was my first time making them, but it will be
a regular addition to my summer menu.

~~~
cortesoft
Well yeah, anything is yummy if it is deep fried.

~~~
hnick
Disagree! I cannot stand seafood and I think it's a genetic setting of some
sort (similar to those cilantro people) and deep frying doesn't help at all :(

It's only ever been palatable twice in my life - as plain white fish at a
chinese restaurant with a lot of soy sauce and other stuff. It's probably
neutralising a chemical that triggers my warning systems.

~~~
webignition
Side tangent: is it all seafood that you dislike?

My girlfriend finds all forms of fish and seafood distasteful - fresh water
fish, salt water fish, shellfish, the lot. In almost all instances she finds
it nauseating, even the smell from a distance.

I've not previously encountered anyone with such a broad dislike for seafood.
I'm curious what your experiences are.

~~~
hnick
Yes, but other freshwater things (crocodile, frog) aren't bad. Shellfish is
easily the worst. Ferment seafood ala belachan or SE Asian fish sauce and it's
basically the worst thing I've ever smelled.

My personal belief is that I am extremely sensitive to one of the chemicals
that shows up as fish gets old. I smell it much better and earlier than most
people so even "fresh" fish smells like it should be thrown out. On the plus
side, I can tell you which shops have the freshest fish :) One near us had
nearly no smell, so it must have been good.

One of the stories my wife remembers is when we asked at a Chinese restaurant
about whether the stir fried green beans had any seafood (they often have
rice-sized dried shrimp). We were told no. I smelled it coming when they were
a few tables away from us still, but the others at the table couldn't smell a
thing and had to look very closely to confirm.

Editing to add: I'm not unadventurous or anything of the sort - I even like
durian! But people seem to constantly think I just need to get used to an
unfamiliar flavour.

------
adrr
Also happens to potatoes. Natural breeding can cause plants that produce too
much glycoalkaloids.

~~~
HarryHirsch
Wasn't it the other way round - current varieties do not contain much solanine
but are comparatively prone to mould and other plant pathogens? Defense
against pathogens is why evolution developed these alkaloids in geological
time.

------
abridgett
This can also happen with pumpkins FYI. Once poisoned my friends accidentally
(it was a proper eating pumpkin not a carving pumpkin). Just a mouthful or two
was enough.

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aaron695
I feel like it's important to get these seeds and test if this is actually
true.

No one has done any tests and no one has been quoted saying they tasted
bitter.

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8529641/Mother-38-r...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8529641/Mother-38-rushed-
hospital-poisoned-courgettes-grew-lockdown.html)

~~~
londons_explore
I assume that before issuing a recall and destroying all their stock, the
company would go to great lengths to confirm that their plants were at fault,
rather than say being grown in toxic soil or being left to go mouldy and full
of ecoli before being eaten.

~~~
aaron695
Their official statement is they don't know and it's also possible for the
growing conditions to cause this.

These seeds are probably worth $300 to them. They will destroy them and move
on.

I've seen no evidence it's even known to be the Zucchinis.

This is a science issue and more boringly a public health issue. Like you say,
what if it is the soil for instance.

~~~
londons_explore
If I were running this seed company, I would personally be driving to this
customers house to taste the fruit for myself and dig up the plant. I'd
document it all with pictures and video.

While the seeds might only be worth $300, the reputational damage is huge, the
lawsuits are big, and the chance of prison is very real. I'm totally wanting
solid evidence to exonerate myself and my company if it exists.

If I _do_ find the fruit to be extremely bitter, it's probably best to use
language like "as a precaution" in my press releases anyway...

------
ros86
Does anyone know why sequencing is not used to QC such seeds before releasing
them?

~~~
pjc50
Expensive and hard to know what you're looking for?

~~~
ros86
I'm wondering whether that's indeed the case. It seems that at least some
genotype has been identified to cause such a phenotype
([https://science.sciencemag.org/content/346/6213/1084](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/346/6213/1084)).
If you know what to look for it would just be a couple of bucks to Sanger
sequence it. (Then you don't even have to sequence it by e.g. Illumina, which
would still be just a couple of hundred bucks per batch). I don't know what
margins they get for these kind of products, but I guess a recall will be
quite expensive as well.

------
userbinator
I was taught that zucchinis and cucumbers should have their ends cut off and
rubbed to make them less bitter. A quick search suggests that might be related
to this, although opinions are inconclusive.

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miohtama
Are the harmful components from the seeds of parent plant or the newly grown
plant?

------
hinkley
So my neighbors _are_ trying to kill me.

I knew those zucchini lovers were sketchy.

------
thomasjames
Yet chlorinated chicken is what we keep hearing all the moaning about coming
our way. I'll pass on mad cow beef and now death zucchinis too. Maybe
expanding transatlantic agricultural trade just doesn't make sense.

