
TV networks vowed to cut back on commercials but stuffed in more - MBCook
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-08-02/tv-networks-vowed-to-cut-back-on-commercials-instead-they-stuffed-in-more
======
jdietrich
As a non-American who hasn't really watched over-the-air television for a
decade, what strikes me most is how commercials affect the content. Mainstream
American TV often has a weirdly fragmented quality - the writers seem acutely
aware of the fact that they'll lose the attention of their viewers every seven
minutes and have to fight to regain it. A lot of programmes (especially
comedies) seem like a series of short vignettes, with an absolute minimum of
context being carried across the commercial break. Even without the
commercials, there's a palpable difference in the pacing compared to a
Netflix, HBO or BBC programme.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
It's not just comedies. Every damn broadcast originated SF or drama has a
cliff hanger every 5 minutes, including the strange and infuriating US
innovation of right after the titles - now 5 minutes in! Then a scene break
that's where the adverts would have been. Then the ones that affect all US
output, including Netflix etc: The inevitable cliff hanger at the end of the
episodes, and a big major cliff hanger at the end of the series - that has no
guarantee of another yet. So when Netflix decide to kill yet another after the
first series, there's no point watching it as there will be no closure.

Whatever happened to stuff like Star Trek where each episode could be stand-
alone, or a series was complete with closure? Crappy series cliff hangers
never got me to tune into the next series - liking the progression of the
story, the acting etc did.

Ironically I gave up broadcast commercial TV about the same time ago as you -
because it had got too much with the adverts, and American direction. That was
long before product placement in the UK, and a couple of liberalisations of
regulation. When I visit friends now I am struck how comically _often_ and
_terrible_ ads are. My memory says they used to try a bit harder and managed
to get them at least competently produced and directed.

~~~
foobarian
The worst are the various documentary murder shows. There is not much to the
story, so not only do they have cliff-hangers before commercial breaks, but
they also recap the previous segment for like half the next segment. It's
comical. It's like they heard the common talk-giving advice "tell them what
you're gonna tell them, tell them, then tell them what you told them."

~~~
wvenable
The Gift Shop Sketch
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFtl2XXnUc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MFtl2XXnUc)

I used to love watching Myth Busters but it became so much like that it was
ridiculous. There was a time you could download torrents of Myth Busters
episodes with all the recaps removed.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
I used to like those when they first appeared just as a new series catch up.
Then it got utterly pointless and self-parody with weekly and break catch ups
and coming soon teasers. Even news progs joined in. How to save 5+ minutes of
programme making with real time repeats.

------
Johnny555
_Too many commercials probably isn’t the main reason people cancel their
cable-TV service, he said. “But it’s definitely in the top five.”_

It's not the top reason I switched to Netflix (and now a couple other
streaming services), but it's the top reason that keeps me from going back.

When I travel and try to watch TV in a hotel, the commercials make it
unbearable, I'll burn data from my cell phone before I'd try to watch anything
on TV. I'm not sure if the commercials have really gotten worse or if I've
just lost my tolerance for them.

When I moved and signed up for cable internet (sadly comcast was my only
choice) they offered a year of free basic cable, I declined since I knew I
wouldn't watch it.

~~~
dreamcompiler
I hate that part of what I'm paying for in hotels is the damn TV. TVs in hotel
rooms have become completely pointless, just like telephones did 20 years ago.
Like you, if I want TV I'll use my cell connection or the hotel's wifi to
watch Netflix. Hotel rooms without TVs don't seem to exist in the US, but if
they did, I'd make it a point to stay there.

~~~
dannyw
I’d love a hotel TV if it has a Chromecast.

~~~
wiseleo
New TV deployments at Extended Stay America include Chromecast. I am deploying
them now. :)

~~~
scarface74
Extended stay hotels usually don’t have locked down HDMI ports. We stayed in
one for months when we were in between our lease being up and waiting for our
house to be built.

------
sizzzzlerz
Too many commercials is like over-prescribing anti-biotics. Pretty soon, they
don't work anymore. In my watching habits (I don't have a DVR), when the show
I'm watchings breaks, my finger is on the remote immediately to jump to the
next channel. If that is in commercial, its on to the next. If everything is
in commercial (a surprisingly common situation), I'm back on the original
station with the auto muted and I'm browsing the net on my iPad or reading a
page or two in the book or magazine I have next to me. Or I go take a pee. Or
clean some dishes in the kitchen. Anything but watch the frickin' commercial.

~~~
RandomTisk
Haven't had cable TV for at least 10 years now and I can't stand watching most
shows at other people's houses who still sit through all the car/truck, pill
and insurance commercials. I literally feel dumber having watched a few in a
row. I really believe there is a science to be discovered there, like slight
or temporary brain damage occurring because of commercials. They're so
fake/plastic and I feel like I'm being manipulated through some kind of meme
the advertiser is trying to push through repetition instead of on the
product's merit.

Edit: What I mean is, nobody acts in real life like they do in commercials. I
feel dumber watching people behave that way. I get it's supposed to be
persuasive but something about modern commercials just irks me to no end.

~~~
robocat
For a long time I only rarely saw TV with commercials, usually at friends.

I actually enjoy seeing _new_ commercials, and so long as I only watched TV at
friends a couple of times a year, I found it enjoyable.

~~~
jdironman
That just proves his point that less is more. Which I believe to be true. It's
about strategy and not saturation. But the problem I guess is that they cannot
realistically follow each individual so saturating all networks / platforms is
the only way they see viable.

------
aftbit
>Turner’s commercial load rose 2.4% last quarter to more than 12 minutes per
hour, according to Nathanson. A spokesman for the broadcaster said the
increase reflected higher ad loads at the kids channel Boomerang, while TruTV
cut its ad minutes by 8% and other networks were little changed.

Great, more ads targeted at children... normalize ad viewership when they're
young so the future customers won't demand fewer ads. Time for TNT et al to
adapt to the new model or fade away.

~~~
mmastrac
> normalize ad viewership when they're young so the future customers won't
> demand fewer ads

I don't think that works - I grew up in the age of cartoons with ads and they
are definitely not something I'll put up with.

~~~
ohithereyou
I grew up when the Saturday morning cartoons were ads (Transformers, He-Man,
GI Joe), and it didn't me refrain from wanting fewer ads in the shows that I
watch now.

------
doh
Barry Diller said something along the lines, that similarly to smoking,
increasingly, only poor people watch commercials. The rest pays premium to get
rid of them.

Considering how strongly Netflix fought against the analysts prediction that
they will have to run ads, I'm quite curious where the advertisers will go
once the cable is "gone".

~~~
asdff
Youtube is getting absurd these days with ads.

~~~
doh
I think it will get much worse. There is around $80B worth of advertisement
locked in in the cable TV just in US.

This all will come eventually to online and large portion to UGC platforms
supporting video, so YouTube, FB, Twitter, ...

Maybe more people will start paying for premium version if available (like
YouTube Red).

------
MRD85
When I was young I remember pay TV being marketed in Australia as "TV with no
ads". It's slowly shifted to a premium content with ads model that I find hard
to justify when I have access to ad free online services.

As a parent this is doubly so. I know everything my children watch and I don't
want them exposed to excessive advertising. I also don't let them watch
content on YouTube that has excessive advertising in the show itself. I'll
gladly pay money for ad free content that is designed to both entertain and
educate.

~~~
aussiegeek
When pay TV first came here, part of the deal was they weren't allowed to show
ads for a certain amount of time. I remember 'ads' for other TV shows like the
ABC does, but that was it.

I have no idea why someone in Australia would have Foxtel now if they don't
watch sport

~~~
justinjlynn
It's very uncommon.

------
jedberg
Imagine a world in which a TV station agreed not to show any commercials, but
in exchange would not pay the show's creators, and in fact would charge them
for distribution.

The shows would then be able to run their own ads, at whatever interval they
wanted, with whatever advertisers they wanted, or they could make all their
money through "native advertising" (product placement). The networks could
even facilitate the ad buys.

This feels like a better and more workable model. It's like how websites work,
where they get to chose how many ad boxes and where those ad boxes go, and
then use a network to facilitate the transaction.

And then a toy company could make a cartoon and show it ad free on Saturday
morning as a marketing expense like back in the 80s!

~~~
ksherlock
You're describing infomercials...

Alex Jones on AM/FM radio works something like that. They give away the show
for free but keep some of the ad time (some for the syndication network, some
for Alex Jones)

~~~
allana
Considering the lunacy Alex Jones is pushing, he'd be hard pressed to make a
viable paid distribution model.

His current model of selling useless/dangerous crap is having trouble since
Alex has consistently violated the morals clauses in Visa & Mastercard's
payment processing terms. First Data let him violate said terms for nearly a
decade before the payment networks caught on and cracked down.

------
classicsnoot
Okay, I am tipsy enough to post this. I had an absolutely brilliant idea a few
years ago and I'm going to share it, knowing it will probably be disregarded
and certain it will never be realised.

Commercials/ads should be patterned after a weather model. 9 months out of the
year, consumers pay it no mind, and when it happens, it is a hard shock,
meaning some people push through and others avoid it entirely.

In the 3 "bad" weather months, there is a rise (1), a sustain (2), and a
decline to normalcy (3). Month 2 is wall to wall commercials. Everyone knows
August, for the sake of example, is just commercials.Everyone knows July and
September are lousy with commercials. Consumers and producers adjust
accordingly.

In the 9 month normal, there are scattered showers of commercials, maybe the
occasional thunderstorm (elections, sporting events, mass shootings, etc.). In
the 3 month bad weather period, the paradigm is Superbowl.

By scheduling the big ad push, companies and producers will be motivated to
create content worth watching. I abhor sportsball of any type, but I watch
Superbowl commercials religiously. They (we) spend ludicrous amounts for the
Superbowl because of the guaranteed eyeballs. This model leverages that
concept. Imagine ad campaigns with real story arcs. Good acting, exquisite
props and locations, viral explosions of excellent ads. Of course some people
will just check out, but most people will flock to a 1-3 month period of
atraditional media.

~~~
dreamcompiler
You just described the PBS model. No commercials all year except during pledge
week, when it becomes unwatchable.

~~~
mrhappyunhappy
The word "pledge" has been ruined for me for good. Emotions of unpleasant kind
are evoked when I hear it.

------
pdimitar
In Bulgaria, the several big TV networks average 20 or even 25 minutes of ads
_an hour_ , and that has been going on for a decade at least.

It's an insanity. They don't even attempt to make their programs more
appealing in order to ensure bigger advertisement exposure. They just stuff
everything with ads and apparently the advertisers are desperate -- or stupid
-- enough to eat the deal every time.

There is real value in some the ads. Useful household items or cleaning agents
or personal hygiene products are changing periodically and it is good to be
somewhat informed.

But they take it too far. Furthermore, most grocery store clerks will be very
happy to recommend you good products because they don't make money through
affiliation; the have fixed wages. So you can not watch TV like I do and still
mostly never miss out on anything.

This became too long but I guess my overall point was that the TV networks
seem to try and milk one last cow before dying as opposed to investing their
current profits in better products outside TV. They are accelerating their own
end, they know it but attempt to squeeze as much money as possible regardless.
It's ugly.

------
bradleyankrom
> AT&T, which bought Turner parent Time Warner Inc. last year, has said the
> $85-billion deal will ultimately lead to fewer commercials. The company
> expects to harvest valuable viewer data that leads to higher ad rates.

Uh, no thanks.

------
seibelj
The majority of people who still have cable like it because, 1) They are not
capable or wanting to learn about streaming and the new tech, 2) Enjoy the
passive background comfort of TV, which requires no additional effort to
consume.

Both of these will allow increased commercials with no reduction in
viewership. If you were going to cut the cord you would have done it already.

~~~
noitsnot
Take a look at AT&T subscriber losses last quarter if you think people have
decided one way or the other and are done cutting the cord. The two points are
a pretty odd choice and I would say increasing cost is at the top of the list.

~~~
dredmorbius
Source?

~~~
noitsnot
"The company blamed it in part on some of the usual factors. Subscribers
failed to reup after their promotional discounts expired; competition took its
toll. DirecTV Now increased pricing, which undoubtedly led to some customers
leaving."

The last article talks about a study including the type of people OP
mentioned. They don't mind cable and commercials but end up being cord cutters
anyway because of loss of control over the channels included.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonifitzgerald/2019/07/24/yikes...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonifitzgerald/2019/07/24/yikes-
whats-behind-the-big-tumble-in-att-tv-subscribers/)

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonifitzgerald/2019/06/29/portr...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonifitzgerald/2019/06/29/portrait-
of-a-cord-cutter-whos-doing-it-and-why/#6809682a163f)

~~~
dredmorbius
Thanks.

This is more TV / scheduled video than traditional PSTN / data services then.
Though AT&T aren't doing great in either of those markets either.

------
mc32
I’d be okay if they created a cartel and governed max minutes per hour on ads.
Say ten. Make up the difference with pricing.

Or just let them implode upon themselves.

~~~
mschuster91
The EU actually has a directive limiting ad air time, however it was weakened
3 years ago: [https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/it-
medien/fernsehen...](https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/it-
medien/fernsehen-eu-erlaubt-mehr-werbung-im-
tv/13621232.html?ticket=ST-1903397-EMQ97f2OvepsdSoC3DVF-ap6)

------
ddingus
Of course they did. I rarely watch live TV.

On some programs it is pretty much a 50/50 split.

No thanks. Got way better to do with my time.

------
tzs
I have two approaches to deal with commercials on major network TV.

1\. If I'm watching live, I work on the New York Times crossword puzzle on my
iPad during the commercials. The puzzle comes out at 10 PM New York Time for
the following day (6 PM for the Sunday and Monday puzzles). I'm 3 hours
behind, so I get them at 7 PM, which fits in nicely with evening TV watching.

2\. If I'm watching on DVR, I use one of two convenient features of the
Comcast X1 DVR for skipping.

2a. If it is a top HD program on NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, CW, Bravo, HGTV,
Discovery, MTV or TLC, and it is more than something like a couple hours after
the broadcast ended, there is a good chance "Smart Resume" is enabled for it.
If that is indeed enabled, the timeline display shows commercials marked in
yellow, and starting FF (or FFx2, FFx3, etc) while in the yellow area
automatically switches back to normal play at the end of the commercial
segment.

So, as soon as I see the break start, I hit the FF button a few times to get
to the fastest FF speed, and it then takes just a few seconds to skip the
commercials and resume the program.

If you have not heard of "Smart Resume", join the club. I too was surprised
when it showed up suddenly. Apparently it has been available as an
experimental feature in a few markets for a while, but you had to specifically
enable it. Sometime in the last few months, they apparently promoted it to a
standard feature and enabled it.

2b. If "Smart Resume" is not available for the recording, I hit the microphone
enable button on the remote and say "skip 3 minutes" (or whatever my best
guess at the length of the break is--it's pretty consistent for a given break
position in a given show). If I still see commercial after that, I'll skip a
little more. Most shows do the promos for other shows on their network at the
end of commercial blocks, and those are usually shorter than outside
commercials, so it is usually easy to tell if I should do another minute skip,
or just 20 or 30 seconds.

The X1 voice interface is pretty good and responsive, so this works well. It
does occasionally mess up and take "skip 3 minutes" or "fast forward 3
minutes" as a search term instead of a command, but not often enough to be
annoying.

~~~
nitrogen
_If you have not heard of "Smart Resume", join the club._

It's interesting that ad skipping has finally made its way into the cable
companies' own DVRs. It used to be that they got sued just for having a "skip
30s" button, while users of MythTV had automatic ad skipping without even
having to use FF and watch them on high speed.

Vertical integration has killed so many interesting things.

------
hn23
I am not watching TV nor do I have time/waste time for streaming services. But
if something would convince me to watch it would be good content. The simple
option would be fewer commercials and good content. They would not even have
to produce it. Go to some archive and show stuff from 20-30years ago.

------
bestnameever
I guess I'm the minority but commercials don't bother me. I use it as a time
to do other stuff.

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/80quF](http://archive.is/80quF)

------
thebeerholder
I wonder if this is exclusive to TV networks. I was served four 90 second ads,
in a twelve minute episode of the Eric Andre show on Hulu.

------
thebeerholder
I'm wondering if this is exclusive to TV. There were four 90 second ads in a
12 minute episode of Eric Andre on Hulu.

~~~
jrnichols
I watched a show on the NBC app and the first ad break played _eleven_
unskippable advertisements. Eleven. That is just ridiculous.

I didn't even finish the show.

