

Sony Announces the PlayStation 4 and the Death of Hardware - jimsilverman
http://jim-silverman.com/blog/rip-hardware/

======
Irregardless
They didn't mention anything about the hardware, and you've jumped to the
conclusion that this means hardware is dead? Talk about linkbait...

Gamers may not care about hardware aesthetics (the original Xbox is a fat,
ugly hunk of cheap plastic), but they sure as hell care about the technical
aspects. E.g. Is it backwards compatible? Will it play used games? Can I take
my save data to a friend's house? Can I replace the HDD if it fails or I run
out of space? Etc.

~~~
kbutler
> E.g. Is it backwards compatible? Will it play used games? Can I take my save
> data to a friend's house? Can I replace the HDD if it fails or I run out of
> space? Etc.

Only one of those desires is about the hardware, and it's not central to the
user experience.

But I agree - the hardware is very much alive, but it is moving to the
background, no longer center stage.

~~~
taproot
They didn't release details on the hardware or show the casing because;

a) its not finished, or

b) they're saving it for e3.

How this linkbaiter came to hardware is dead, fucked if I know.

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dmbaggett
I worked with Mark Cerny (who presented yesterday) on Crash Bandicoot, and
even by HN luminary standards he is a god-like superhero. Given that he's
evidently played a key role in developing the PS4, I seriously doubt anyone
will be disappointed when they see the physical machine. Sony probably just
didn't want to leak details that could help competitors.

~~~
cube13
They announced the complete system
specs([http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/20/4009940/playstation-4-tech-...](http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/20/4009940/playstation-4-tech-
specs-hardware-details) ) That's more than enough to "help" competitors.

The console manufacturers don't have any reason to copy each others
aesthetics, because confusing branding doesn't help any of them, and there's
no functional reason for them to all have the same shape/form factor.

~~~
stephengillie
Stackability.

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warfangle
Sony didn't talk about hardware, because the PS4 doesn't really differentiate
itself with the next-gen xbox hardware-wise.

You'll have two main variables to consider:

\- which (or both) slightly differentiated but mostly-overlapping game library
do you want access to

\- do you want to give money to the company that installed spyware via music
CDs, or the company that gave us IE6, Vista, and chair-throwing CEOs?

I think of every dollar I spend as a vote on the kind of future I want.
Neither MS nor Sony get a dime from me these days.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
> Sony didn't talk about hardware, because the PS4 doesn't really
> differentiate itself with the next-gen xbox hardware-wise.

I think it does, actually. It has little over 50% more GPU shading power,
twice the pixel throughput, and more than twice the main ram throughput. The
difference is just about enough to make sure that PS4 can run at twice the
resolution (720p vs 1080p) or twice the frame rate compared to XBox next.

The fact that they both use _very_ similar system architecture, with PS4 just
having more of it, will mean that it will be easy for multiplatform titles to
scale to the difference. I'm willing to bet money that once the MS specs are
actually out, Sony will talk about the specs a lot.

~~~
warfangle
> 50% more shading power

From my reading, four of the shader units in the PS4 are reserved for Compute
Units; things like physics (just cause 2) and lighting (battlefield 3), which
cuts the raw advantage from 50% to 16%. Apparently on the 720, developers will
be able to choose how to allocate compute units across the cores.

> twice the pixel throughput

Mainly useful for stereoscopic images or 4k. How many people have 4k tvs and
3D tvs? 16 render output units are plenty for 1080p (the PS4 has 32).

> twice the main ram throughput

At the cost of half the storage (4GB vs 8GB).

It's pretty much a tossup. Orbis is choosing different things to optimize
compared to Durango. Textures will probably be able to be larger on Durango,
while level loading will happen faster on the Orbis.

> with PS4 just having more of it

More of some things; less of others. Faster at some things; slower at others.

Either way, I'm not giving a dime to either of these evil companies.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
> From my reading, four of the shader units in the PS4 are reserved for
> Compute Units; things like physics (just cause 2) and lighting (battlefield
> 3), which cuts the raw advantage from 50% to 16%. Apparently on the 720,
> developers will be able to choose how to allocate compute units across the
> cores.

You are reading bad sources. PS4 can allocate everything to graphics. And even
if it couldn't, a lot of the graphics work in today's game engines is run as
compute shaders anyway, so it would not matter in the slightest. The whole
"cuts the raw advantage" spiel was concocted by fanboys to make themselves
feel better. I strongly advocate that you pay no heed to anything said by
anyone who mentions it.

> Mainly useful for stereoscopic images or 4k. How many people have 4k tvs and
> 3D tvs? 16 render output units are plenty for 1080p (the PS4 has 32).

Completely untrue. The load on rops doesn't depend on just resolution, but on
what they draw. In deferred engines (which everyone uses now), you can often
reduce load on other parts by storing intermediate results, spending more
fillrate. On consoles, everyone designs their games to spend all the fillrate
that is available.

Fillrate does, however scale linearly on resolution and frame rate, so if a
game is designed to run on Xbox next at x resolution and y frame rate, to run
at 2x or 2y you would need twice of it. Which is probably why Sony has exactly
twice of it.

> At the cost of half the storage (4GB vs 8GB).

?!? What exactly are your sources anyway? PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5.

> Textures will probably be able to be larger on Durango

Umm, no. More memory means larger textures. The textures will be pretty much
identical for the consoles.

> More of some things; less of others. Faster at some things; slower at
> others.

No, Orbis is strictly superior in everything. Which is my point.

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nicholasjarnold
I'm not sure that our (asserted) collective lack of interest in console
aesthetics implies the 'Death of Hardware'. Honestly, that's a bit of a link
bait claim with virtually no argument that makes any sense to back it up.

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sosuke
They said all the specs up front: PlayStation 4 with 8-core x86 processor, 8GB
GDDR5 memory and DualShock 4 controller

They even gave more details specs later:
[http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2013/02/21/sony-announces-
play...](http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2013/02/21/sony-announces-
playstation-4/)

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ctdonath
Fulfills my contention that in advertising/promotion, specs are an excuse for
inadequacy. Most users don't care what the numbers are, they just want the
darn thing to _just work_. Apple has brilliantly embraced this, reducing
admission of specifications (ex.: iPad RAM content) and pushing technology to
the point where it just doesn't matter (ex.: "retina" displays - nobody cares
how many pixels 'cuz you can't see them). Sony has long been prolific in their
specifications, which as a then-fanboy I learned were hard limits more
fulfilling of marketing checkboxes than usable performance (ex.: yes, it's a
50GB drive; no, you can't use 10GB of it because we're obligated to store
"installation copies" of software which you can't get to). Maybe Sony is
realizing that, to most users, it doesn't matter what hardware the games run
on, just that they DO run and convincingly so.

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jscottmiller
They also seemed to have announced the Death of Software, as purchased content
will not transfer over to the new console[1].

Edit: This comment came off as more trolling than intended. My point is that
it's fantastic that they're focusing on software and services. However,
they're simultaneously indicating that software and services are to be
disposed with along with the hardware. My hunch is that consumer expectations
have moved on from this due to services such as the Apple App Store, Google
Play Store, and to some extend Netflix and Rdio.

[1] [http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/sony-psn-games-wont-
trans...](http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/21/sony-psn-games-wont-transfer-to-
ps4/)

~~~
AdrianRossouw
the console also isn't backwards compatible, so that's hardly surprising.

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kayoone
My guess is that in the future the device in your living room is more or less
just a PC which is streaming content (games, movies, music) to you. You pay
for a subscription to the playstation network/xbox live/steam to get the
content they offer, but they are rendered in the cloud and streamed to you. I
tried some of Gaikais game demos last year and was very impressed at how well
it worked. Of course for the mass market this is atleast 5 years away, but its
coming!

As even games are now moving to the cloud, i wonder how much longer the
computing power of your local device really matters. The quality of your
internet connection is getting increasingly more important than your hardware.

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perlgeek
So if the hardware is going to die, what will we run our software on?

Ok, what the article says is that nobody is going to care about the hardware.
But if they want me to pay for it, I want to know what I'll get. I'm sure
others feel the same.

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rpledge
I don't know if hardware is dead, but I think this announcement is the death
of PowerPC

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newishuser
All Apple hardware is lavished with extreme attention. People still gravitate
to pretty physical things and users mostly want the software to just get out
of their way.

Hardware is certainly not dead, especially if there is a box consumers will be
going to best buy to pick up. Also, parent's will have no ability to remember
whether they need a Playstation, Playstation 2, Playstation 360, Playstation
wii, Playstation Nintendo, or Playstation 4. The hardware, at least it's
appearance, will be heavily marketed.

~~~
astrodust
One of the few devices Apple makes that is intended to be stuck on a shelf
somewhere and ignored, the AppleTV, is a rather humble looking device. It
looks nice, but not amazing.

It's things like the iPhone that you grip and handle to the point of becoming
a fashion accessory that are fussed over the most.

With digital delivery, the requirement for touching the hardware becomes even
less of an issue. For most people, apart from changing discs, the hardware
itself is just a bother. The thing they interact with the most is the
controller and the television it's connected with.

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Geee
They discussed for a good hour about the specs only and how/why they ended up
designing it this way (they consulted developers). So, basically the
architecture is a very powerful PC in a custom configuration: 8-core x86 CPU
and custom GPU on same chip, unified 8GB GDDR5 RAM.

What they didn't show is the physical design, which is a good move because the
device isn't launched until later. They'll be able to get in the news again
when they show the design / launch the device.

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boomlinde
How is physical hardware becoming less relevant when it's all about "how well
it performs"and "how it interfaces with its users"? Hardware is a great factor
in both of those.

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contextfree
Physical aesthetics of game consoles have never been fussed over that much (at
least among geek/core gamer audiences). PCs were the same in the past. The
current "industrial design boom" that Apple started is historically the
exception. And yeah, something you hold in your hands and keep on your person
vs. something you keep under your TV makes a big difference - note they did
show the controller (the part you interact with directly).

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rld
Hardware isn't dead. Sony just stopped using it a selling point because the
average consumer doesn't care what the hardware is, just what the device can
do.

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tomelders
I wonder how dead an issue it will be if vents are in the wrong place and it
overheats within an hour, or if the fan sounds like the wailing of a thousand
banshees.... and so on.

I'm not saying the PS4 will have these issues, but we all hope it doesn't, and
that's firmly in the hardware domain.

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nateabele
Except physical hardware kind of does matter. In the case of the new Xbox, as
well the new MS Office, whatever software you buy is locked to the device it's
purchased on for life, no matter what.

Have a PC/console die on you? Guess you'll be buying all new software.

~~~
freehunter
>In the case of the new Xbox... software you buy is locked to the device

What gives you that idea? Even on the Xbox 360, I own many games that are "on
demand" (no physical disc) and I have them installed on multiple consoles as
long as I'm logged into my Xbox Live account. I haven't heard Microsoft say
that this would be changing.

~~~
nateabele
You must be using a definition of the word 'new' with which I'm unfamiliar.

[http://www.develop-online.net/news/40383/Xbox-720-to-
employ-...](http://www.develop-online.net/news/40383/Xbox-720-to-employ-
always-on-DRM)

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mariusmg
I didn't really cared about not seeing the device case. They made public the
specs ( 8 GB FTW) so that was more important than seeing a empty case.

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islon
This is not the death of the hardware, it's the death of the hardware form
factor (or design). The hardware is still important.

