
75% of fire calls are false alarms. Is there a startup working on this problem - QuantumGood
Is there a startup working on this problem?
======
gregjor
I am working on a solution. Without giving it all away, it’s an app for phones
that can record audio and video and recognize a fire using ML and AI. It
alerts nearby emergency responders based on GPS from the phone.

Initially this service will be ad-supported. When you launch the app you see a
short video ad before the app will record the fire. With such a sharply
defined demographic the ad impressions should get a good price.

~~~
krapp
So basically you're monetizing smoke detectors.

~~~
gregjor
That’s one way to think about it, but smoke detectors aren’t programmed in
Rust, Typesscript, React, don’t run in a K8S cluster, aren’t serverless, so I
think I have some technical advantages.

The app can either call 911 and report a fire, or you can hold it next to an
Alexa/Siri/Google home hub or smart speaker, and some toaster ovens, and it
will tell the connected device to call the fire department.

~~~
krapp
>but smoke detectors aren’t programmed in Rust, Typesscript, React, don’t run
in a K8S cluster, aren’t serverless, so I think I have some technical
advantages.

Smoke detectors don't require a subscription fee, or for me to sit through
advertising. Smoke detectors won't stop working on a bad connection or a
botched update. Smoke detectors won't spy on me and sell my data.

Is your app actually, testably, provably better at _detecting fires_ than
smoke detectors? Will you have the endorsement of fire departments? Will my
homeowners' insurance be affected by using this app?

~~~
throwawayfound
I am 99% sure you are responding seriously to what is intended as satire (and
ispretty hilarious).

~~~
gregjor
I thought the toaster oven reference would give it away. ;-)

~~~
krapp
Oops.

I should have known something was up when you didn't post a landing page...

~~~
janbernhart
This has been a entertaining conversation to read, I also didn't get the
sarcasm immediately, it's quite close to what actually might be happening.

------
d33lio
I'm not surprised nobody has tackled this problem. The result of your "app"
breaking is someone who needed help with a fire has their entire home /
structure burn down.

I sure as hell don't want a more complicated system to tell me if my house is
about to burn down or if I'm about to asphyxiate in my sleep.

The Nest smoke-detector has a horrendous number of examples of exactly this...
especially people getting annoyed with false positives because it's over-
complicated and then turning off the detector and dying as a result when there
was later an actual fire. [0]

[0] -
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/baig/2018/10/0...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/baig/2018/10/02/how-
deal-false-alarm-when-your-nest-smoke-detector-goes-off/1124090002/)

------
greenyoda
Do you think it would be acceptable for a fire department to ignore an
emergency call because some AI algorithm tells them it's 92% likely to be
false? Who would be responsible if the algorithm made a mistake and people
died?

~~~
sgillen
Not necessarily what OP is proposing. It could be a group if people fielding
calls to the department who rapidly investigate all calls, and get the fire
department there for real fires.

They could also provide some first responder care... maybe this is already
what some fire departments do?

~~~
greenyoda
To investigate whether a fire call is real, wouldn't you need to be a trained
firefighter? For example, you may have to enter a building that's possibly on
fire to see if there's a fire. And a small fire isn't necessarily obvious by
just looking at the building from the outside.

Also, if someone has to investigate before the fire department was dispatched,
you'd lose a lot of valuable time, allowing the fire to spread. It could be a
win if there was no fire, but a huge loss (burned buildings, dead people) if
there actually was a fire.

~~~
sgillen
Yeah I was playing devils advocate I guess, I do agree with you. The best
equipped people to investigate the false alarms is probably the fire
department itself, and they are already the ones doing the investigating.

------
Jtsummers
Improve fire detection and reporting systems. Possibly improve in-home and in-
business fire suppression systems, or even have them. I live in a fire prone
area and none of the houses we looked at had fire suppression systems built-
in, definitely something I'll be looking into if we have a chance to build.

But this is definitely an area where false positives are much less of a
concern than false negatives. We'd rather have fire and rescue sent to non-
incidents than not sent to real incidents.

------
mrfusion
At my work folks always set off the alarm with the microwave. Usually popcorn.
The FD said by law they have to show up and check out the building each time.

Maybe we change that law for starters.

~~~
raihansaputra
Yeah I think regulation is the way. When I lived in Australia, the law and
setup was this:

\- The in unit smoke detectors can be triggered to warn occupants. No
emergency services are called. If you have a cooking mishap or any kind of
smoke, it will trigger, but just to wake the people in the unit up or annoy
your neighbors.

\- There are also smoke detectors in the hallway. Once this is triggered
(presumably real fire), emergency services are notified and on their way. The
building alarm will also sound. If it is found to be a false alarm, the tenant
who triggered it is fined.

I think it's really reasonable. Small mishaps don't need to have a big
response, but tenants do need to be notified. Once it's big enough (smoke in
the hallway), then a response is justified.

~~~
teapot01
> The in unit smoke detectors can be triggered to warn occupants

This is specifically because the National Construction Code (NCC) requires
multiple occupancy buildings to have certain fire safety infrastructure that
generally includes a 2 hour fire separation between different occupancy units.
This gives a buffer to all other occupants.

> There are also smoke detectors in the hallway. If a detector is triggered in
> a common area this has the potential to affect the escape routes of multiple
> occupants so it triggers an immediate fire alarm.

Australian fire safety rules are some of the best in the world.

------
ryanmccullagh
This sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

~~~
Trias11
... and then looking for someone to pay for given solution

------
jacobwilliamroy
God I hope no one on HN ever holds a public office. "No more task forces or
comittees or councils. All government reforms will be done via startups from
here on out."

------
duxup
I wonder what the savings would be?

Is that something a given department wants to pay for even if you could reduce
the numbers?

Is a false alarm very costly?

~~~
greenyoda
> Is a false alarm very costly?

Potentially, yes. If fire fighters are busy responding to false alarms, they
may be delayed if a real fire happens at the same time. This can result in
loss of lives and property.

~~~
duxup
Is that common?

Im not sure firefighters are in a position where nobody can respond.

------
muzani
It sounds like putting a false alarm cancel button on it would solve the
problem.

------
richardknop
Solution in search of a problem. What you are suggesting is not a realistic
business model and would result in another ever money losing startup.

