

Having Uncomfortable Conversations About Money - trcull
http://blog.quoteroller.com/2013/09/19/uncomfortable-conversations-about-money/

======
jonnathanson
A lot of good points, but this one I'm not sure I can agree with:

 _" Back yourself into a coner - Nothing makes asking for more money easier
than not having an alternative."_

Maybe that makes the conversation more urgent and steels your nerves. I could
see how there'd be a psychological benefit there. But the best way to build
leverage in a negotiation is to have a strong hand before starting the
negotiation. This concept is known in behavioral sciences and business theory
as BATNA ("best alternative to a negotiated agreement"). In layman's terms,
it's your Plans B, C, D, etc. The stronger your backup options, the better
your position in the discussion.

This correlates with the market-based theory discussed in the article ("If you
can find someone to pay you X, you're worth X"). You increase your chances of
getting X if you can get Backup Y as close to X as possible.

Glassdoor is extremely helpful for leveling a lot of the information
asymmetries that push a money discussion in the employer's or client's favor.
But Glassdoor isn't the same as leverage. Just because a typical Role X makes
$Y doesn't mean _you_ are entitled to that...unless you convince the market
that you should be, i.e., by getting someone to give you that much (or more).

~~~
NovemberWest
If one of your biggest obstacles to financial success is personal discomfort
with the social/emotional piece, being cornered is an excellent experience for
getting over it. I am going through that currently. It really is helping me
change things about myself I have long been frustrated with but could not
figure out how to change. So it kind of depends, I guess.

~~~
jonnathanson
I totally get that, and I respect that line of thinking. It's a
psychological/motivational thing. But if you've got no other options, keep
that in mind. You are playing at the table with a weaker hand, and you run the
risk that the other side will call your bluff.

At the end of the day, whatever works best for someone works best for him. I
would just caution against _intentionally_ backing oneself into a corner.
Sometimes we do our best with our backs against the wall, but that doesn't
mean we should seek to put ourselves in that position.

~~~
NovemberWest
There are always other options. I suggest you watch "Kingdom of Heaven" if you
have not yet seen it. Painfully bad movie, totally worth watching all the way
through one time in order to see the negotiation scene in context.

I have negotiation skills in spades. But I tend to be a doormat. Being under
the gun has been extremely uncomfortable but is getting results in ways that
simply studying the subject intellectually was not. Getting over some things
has been terribly difficult for me.

My situation is complicated and a comment or two on HN won't convey it. If we
had more time to talk, we might find we agree more than it seems.

Peace.

------
peter_l_downs

        > I’ve done plenty of business with friends. In fact, the 
        > majority of my business has been with friends or 
        > acquaintances. Some of those friends even stopped using 
        > me when I raised rates over the years and they’re still 
        > my friends. I’m having drinks with one of them tonight, 
        > in fact.
    

I'm happy that doing business with your friends worked out in this case, but
in general I'd tend to stay away from it. Nothing can ruin a great friendship
like money.

~~~
mikitamikado
It is hard to build sales and marketing channels when you're just starting up.
That is why majority of us start with closest circles - friends, family,
friends of friends and friends of family... In many cases doing business with
friends is inevitably.

------
ivv
Why should conversations about compensation be uncomfortable at all? You are
not begging for a handout, and are likely not imposing any undue hardship on
the other side. It might be personal for you; for them, it might be just a
line item.

~~~
switch007
Because many employers, from the moment they hire you, endeavour to create the
illusion they are giving you a hand-out, that they are oh-so-generous and that
you're lucky to have a job. When I tell colleagues that it's a fair and equal
exchange of their compensation and your labour, I get blank stares.

------
msacca
Some really good reminders in here - thanks for posting

