
Chat is Google's next big fix for Android's messaging mess - OberstKrueger
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/19/17252486/google-android-messages-chat-rcs-anil-sabharwal-imessage-texting
======
FreeKill
Fool me twice google! I won't get fooled again?

In all seriousness, how can anyone advocate for the adoption of this new chat
app? After Chat/Buzz/Hangouts/Messenger/Duo/Allo and probably more, I can't
with a straight face convince anyone I know to adopt yet another Google
messaging product, despite whatever problem it sets out to rectify this time
around.

At this point, I have zero trust that the application will continue to get
long term support or will even still exist in a few years time. Remember when
Google said Hangouts was going to consolidate and fix problems in all these
disparate applications as well? Google has lost 100% of the benefit of the
doubt with me in regards to trying out new messaging applications and it's not
worth putting in the hassle to convince others to use it with me.

~~~
IvyMike
> Chat/Buzz/Hangouts/Messenger/Duo/Allo and probably more

Too bad Google dropped XMPP federation; they could have used it between their
own apps. Just imagine a world where Google users could talk to other Google
users!

~~~
cjhopman
And all my friends list could be shared with third parties with abandon!

------
stevewillows
After all of these years, I'm surprised that Google hasn't just made their own
clone of iMessage and called it a day.

iMessage (being an SMS / chat system with a native desktop client) is the only
reason I went back to iOS. As much as I miss and android community, my top
priority is avoiding the physical use of my phone whenever possible.

So while this is on the right track, its still not there. Leaving encryption
off the table, at least to me, doesn't make a lick of sense.

Combining Google Voice and an iMessage-like service would have been closer to
the game-changer they keep marketing their chat apps as... but it looks like
we're still going to wait.

A BGR article [1] is assuming that they'll use a browser extension for the
desktop client, which is good for cross-platform work, but the ones I've tried
in the past (PushBullet, MightyText, etc) all fell short.

Long story short, its a shame to see someone as big and powerful as Google
struggle with something as seemingly simple as a good SMS / RCS client to
properly compete in the space.

[1] [http://bgr.com/2018/02/09/imessage-vs-android-messages-
sms-t...](http://bgr.com/2018/02/09/imessage-vs-android-messages-sms-texting-
pc/)

~~~
Eridrus
Seems like the article offers a pretty clear explanation for why they haven't:

> Though Google won’t say so, I think that road is fundamentally too dangerous
> for the company. One would think that Google has more than enough leverage
> to simply create something that the carriers would have to accept whether
> they like it or not. What are Verizon and Deutsche Telecom and all the rest
> going to do, switch to Tizen in protest? Please.

> But the truth is that these carriers have points of leverage over Google
> that go beyond choosing to sell Android phones. Android is, after all, open
> source. And though Google can (and does) dictate some requirements in order
> to include Google services, it can’t dictate them all. A carrier could set
> Bing as the default search, for example, or set up its own RCS client as the
> default texting app.

> Perhaps Google could have gotten away with a proprietary, baked-in messaging
> protocol back in 2011 when iMessage launched. But in 2018, carriers aren’t
> fond of iMessage, and they aren’t going to take kindly to a similar service
> acting as the default, especially on Android, the globally dominant
> operating system.

~~~
neverfarious
If it's true that Google was prevented from making a good iMessage-type
service by pressure from the carriers, it seems like a market failure. If
Google was actually willing to build something and users wanted it, but some
third party had leverage to prevent Google from doing that, it seems like the
market is broken.

I don't know if this actually happened (obviously), but it really bothers me
if it did. It makes me want to boycott RCS and the carriers somehow. I don't
want to reward them for winning the battle to make my Android phone less
useful, less encrypted, and easier to toll.

~~~
Eridrus
One fun fact I have heard is that the Android Messages app did not receive
updates through the play store because carriers wanted to retain control.

If you're in the US, you could switch to Project Fi.

I think the crypto thing is less about carriers own opinions and more about
the regulation that carrier provided services face. Hopefully it will at least
have an encrypted OTT mode the same way that Allo does.

Let's also not forget how carriers have hampered Android updates.

------
sfRattan
I give it two years before Google tries something else.

Honestly, as soon as Google Voice (and its integration with the languishing
Hangouts app) support breaks, which I fully expect to eventually happen, I'm
jumping off the last of the Google boat. The inertia of "all my friends can at
least contact me on this number that follows me around carrier-to-carrier" is
the only reason I haven't stopped using Google services almost entirely:

My searches are DuckDuckGo. It's even more useful than Google for image
searches because it still has a "View Image" link.

My primary email is now a private provider. The old Gmail account is kept to
not miss old contacts reaching out and as a dumping ground for "sign up with
your email so we can spam you forever!"

My online storage and backup is private, paid, and encrypted. There are still
a few public links in my Google Drive, but I no longer use it day-to-day.

I can't remember the last time I actually needed live collaborative editing
for work. I still use Google Docs/Spreadsheets occasionally, but I'm mostly
collaborating with people elsewhere in the world and I wake up to see their
edits/comments the next day. I'm not sure this bit even needs a replacement.

The last holdout is that sticky Google Voice number. I woke up one day a year
and a half back and thought to myself, "you make real money now. You signed up
for Google's free services all the way back in high school (when you had to
have an invite for Gmail). _You can afford paid services for these things, and
the paid services are just as good_. Why are you still giving Google more of
your info than they would otherwise vacuum up?"

The fact that Google's "fix" for its own ADHD concerning chat/message
platform(s) has no encryption is enough for me to say, "Nope. Done. Get me out
of there once and for all."

~~~
Promarged
> all my friends can at least contact me on this number that follows me around
> carrier-to-carrier

Isn't it possible to migrate phone number between carriers in US?

~~~
sfRattan
It was somewhat more complicated before the advent of smartphones, and I had
Google Voice before I had my first smartphone. The user experience on flip-
phones was also not quite user friendly to the person with Google Voice, but
it was completely transparent for everyone you were communicating with.

------
post_break
Hangouts was so close. It had SMS, audio, video, text, desktop clients. It was
about to be the android equivalent of imessage. And then they pulled SMS and
started pulling other features and pushing duo/allo.

I've switched to telegram at this point and now I have that and SMS. It's a
shit show.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
The bean counters didn't want to pay to be a free SMS gateway.

What Google should do is just build a shared messaging API that can integrate
multiple services into one app.

~~~
gst
> What Google should do is just build a shared messaging API that can
> integrate multiple services into one app.

You mean something like XMPP? (On which Google's original chat service was
based).

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
No. They should stay out of the backend and do something like a more
sophisticated notification API that let's you use whatever service from a
unified app. They can slip in their own offering but still support others in
parallel.

------
bigiain
'But, like SMS, Chat won’t be end-to-end encrypted'

Hey Google? 1992 called, they want their clear text messaging app back...

~~~
colordrops
Without encryption, it's dead on arrival.

~~~
lopmotr
With encryption many countries won't let their carriers implement it. So also
dead on arrival.

~~~
colordrops
how does iMessage get away with it

~~~
bigiain
If the problem is "Nations making rules about SMS encryption" (like India does
I believe) - then Apple isn't an interested party because that's all on the
cellular carrier to implement and comply with.

Telegram is a current example of the different problem of "how can a nation
regulate non SMS messaging app encryption" I suspect Apple _is_ wondering just
how long iMessage will "get away with" that...

------
velobro
"As part of that effort, Google says it’s “pausing” work on its most recent
entry into the messaging space, Allo."

Oh hey look, another app Google is going to neglect and then abandon. What a
surprise.

/s

------
madushan92
What happens to Allo? Abandon it just like hangouts? Google has been playfully
abandoning most of their products lately. It’s the consumers that has to live
with it. I bought a nexus 6p last year, only to find out Google is dropping
support with Android P. Oh man I wish I bought an iPhone, atleast it gets
support for 5 years. ‍️

~~~
Eridrus
I get that everyone is still mad about Reader, but if all of Allo's features
get rolled into Android messages and it retains interop with existing Allo
users, does it matter at all? This honestly seems like something pointless to
get mad over since every other thread about Google's chat apps was about how
they had too many...

------
lopmotr
It's strange to see Americans struggling with problems that are completely
solved in other countries. Here, WeChat in China. They somehow aren't getting
the network effects like WeChat had and have to resort to getting every
carrier to promise to - I suppose - impose it on their customers.

------
gruez
what's the point of rcs when it's controlled by the carriers (aka you will be
billed for it). at least with imessage it's free to send between apple
devices.

~~~
pigubrco
From [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207006](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT207006) (at the bottom of the help article) - "If Wi-Fi is unavailable,
iMessages will be sent over cellular data. Cellular data rates might apply."
So I'm not sure if it is free over mobile data.

On the other hand, I believe AT&T zero rates their RCS messages if you have an
unlimited texting plan. (e.g.
[https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/advanced-
messagin...](https://www.att.com/shop/wireless/features/advanced-
messaging.html) > FAQ > how much does advanced messaging cost). Could not find
details on TMobile except this article: [https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news-
and-blogs/rcs-messaging-l...](https://newsroom.t-mobile.com/news-and-
blogs/rcs-messaging-leadership.htm)

~~~
gruez
>On the other hand, I believe AT&T zero rates their RCS messages if you have
an unlimited texting plan

But what if you don't have an unlimited texting plan? Let's say your current
plan includes data + modest amounts of talk+text, but you do most of your
communication over chat apps, so you never really touch your text allowance,
even though you text a lot. now with RCS, you now have to pay extra $ for
those texts you're sending out, or pay $ for the unlimited plan. plus with
chat apps, you could send free over wifi. so from a customers point of view,
RCS is worse in every way.

------
firefoxd
When everything else fails, we send an SMS.

Google: sms must be broken, let's fix it.

------
styfle
Here's the mobile friendly version of the article:

[https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/4/19/17252486/goo...](https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/4/19/17252486/google-
android-messages-chat-rcs-anil-sabharwal-imessage-texting)

------
limeblack
A data plan will be required on Android according to the video[1].

[1]: [https://youtu.be/PCh-qRYMAKk?t=3m39s](https://youtu.be/PCh-
qRYMAKk?t=3m39s)

~~~
kiwijamo
Is that an onerous requirement? Even my 70 year old mother has a data plan
these days.

~~~
limeblack
Prepaid/GoPhones are what lost of low income people use. Traditionally no data
plan. This is even more common abroad in developing nations.

------
dingo_bat
This is a solved problem. By entities other than google. SMS works fine on
every phone. Whatsapp and Messenger also work fine. Choose one or two and use
it.

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hitekker
Whatsapp has solved this problem as far as I'm concerned. Even my north
american friends are getting into it now.

It's the perfect messenger for the average user.

------
dorfsmay
Mobile only is sad...

I want to be able to chat from whatever platform I'm on right now, like
hangout and xmpp previously.

------
Aissen
Nevermind that "Hangouts Chat" is already called "Chat" on Android…

------
typon
Everyone I know is on WhatsApp. Why would anyone switch?

------
hateful
[https://xkcd.com/927/](https://xkcd.com/927/)

