

Working away: consider it for your startup - amirnathoo
http://trigger.io/cross-platform-application-development-blog/2012/06/06/working-away-consider-it-for-your-startup/

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brezina
We've done this twice so far at Sincerely. Once to Puerto Vallarta Mexico when
our team was ~7 people. And once to Tahoe for a ski-cation when we were at ~9
people. Both were week-long trips and cost under $1k per person. We are doing
Mexico again soon with our team of 14.

Quick thoughts: \- We like to ship stuff while on these trips. I find it
unproductive to do brainstorming or planning on these trips. We plan before we
go. We execute while we are away. And on drunken walks home from the club or
sunburned strolls back from the beach, we come up with great ideas that we
quickly turn into new realities for our users. \- The trips end up defining
elements of company culture. It has been on these trips where we've started
our board game culture, our exercise culture, etc \- For several of our
employees, this was the first time they had left the country. Most of us do
startups because they are challenging and an amazing learning environment. It
is nice to extend that learning experience into other aspects of our human
experience - like traveling abroad. \- I always dreamed about working at a
company that did cool things like workcations to Mexico. And the best thing
about running your own startup is that you can actually redefine the
traditional work place. Be the change you want to see in the world. It feels
really really good.

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crazygringo
Does anybody else _not_ want to see their co-workers outside of work?

I mean, I love my coworkers, but I love the rest of my life too, and I don't
really _want_ to go on a 10-day trip where I'm away from family/friends every
evening. I don't want to go hiking or clubbing with my coworkers.

I want to _work_ with my coworkers, and hike with my friends, and maybe there
will be a little bit of intersection there, but it will be my choice and
happen naturally.

I need to be away from work to recharge, and spending time with coworkers
outside of work doesn't really let me do that.

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pbreit
Pretty narrow view. First, it's not "outside of work". What was described _is_
work. Second, it's 10 days out of the year, not 365. It's not meant to replace
or displace any other recharging you might engage in. And, wow, maybe work
with people you could consider friends?

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run4yourlives
It's not narrow, just different. We're not all 20 something's with free
schedules.

Once you have kids and become involved in their lives, something like this
goes from being an enjoyable vacation-like work-bonding experience to
ridiculous pain-in-the-ass to schedule time away from family requirement.

That isn't to say that it can't or shouldn't be done outright, but that like
anything, it should be done with regard to the people and personalities on
your team's best interests at heart.

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amirnathoo
I appreciate this kind of trip and culture is not for everyone.

But I worry about the stereotype you project - we're not all 20-somethings,
and I think even our 20-somethings would object to you thinking they had
anything like "free schedules"!

I totally agree with your comment that anything like this needs to be done
with regard to the people and personalities on your team.

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run4yourlives
Trust me, once (if) you have kids, you'll realize how free your schedule is!

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amirnathoo
If / when I'm sure I'll be surprised by myriad things. I'll post again then :)

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ispivey
We did the same thing for two weeks in Mexico. It cost about $8k for a team of
5, including one guy flying from Argentina.

In productivity terms, we juiced payroll by ~50% for a two week period and got
much more than 50% extra work done. We worked 12 hours a day, in sync from
sunup to sundown, and it felt great because lunch or coffee breaks were a dip
in the pool or a beer on the beach.

In team-building terms, it was fantastic. We have one guy working remotely and
getting in the same room with him for two weeks was a great way to help him
understand how we're making product decisions. Also, we brought a bluetooth
boombox and learned far too much about everyone's musical tastes.

@brezina is right - build and ship stuff. We did bug/issue triage together
every morning, and played show-and-tell constantly. Having everyone working at
extremely high velocity is self-reinforcing.

If it fits your budget, I highly recommend it.

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ezl
I think this is a phenomenal team building exercise, even if your entire team
normally works from the same office.

Being in a place other than home removes all sorts of distractions from your
regular life and you can focus on (a) work and (b) spending time getting to
know your teammates, if that sort of thing is important to you.

Question: do you have rough guesstimate on what this sort of thing will cost
per person, after all is said and done?

I'm guessing: 1000 airfare + 200/night/4 people for lodging + 50/person/day
for food + 50/person/day for entertainment/booze ==

$12k for a 4 person team to go to spain from Chicago for 10 days? Is that
about fair?

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amirnathoo
We've found it to be a lot less than that generally - almost half your
estimates.

[Edit] re-reading, I think your flight costs are accurate from Chicago to
Spain. They are less for us because half the team travelled from London. If
you are all in Chicago, you should go to Canada or Mexico or Central America -
lower cost to achieve the same goal.

~~~
njyx
You arguably don't have to go that far from home I guess - depending on where
you live - just needs to be "away" and a great place (and have great
Internet!)

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petercooper
Just be careful how you explain yourselves to the border staff at the country
you're visiting.

If you tried this as a non American going to the US to work on your startup
and you told the truth, expect to be on the next flight back.

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dominik
How does this work for employees with families?

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amirnathoo
Two of us on this trip are married, one with young kids. In this case the kids
are with grannie and have a list of chores / Skype on their computers.

Sometimes team members take vacation at or close to the location with
significant others after the work trip.

We talk about these trips when describing the company as part of our interview
process. It wouldn't be a problem if people were unable to participate because
of their personal situation - we're well used to working remotely. Almost
everyone sees it as a big benefit.

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martythemaniak
This is something that has crossed my mind as well, so I'm happy to see it
work out for you guys.

Do you find the cost (presumably around $130/person/day) is well justified? Do
you find the long plane trips and getting around your destination too much of
a hassle/distraction?

~~~
amirnathoo
The cost varies and we often pick cheap destinations, so it ends up being less
than you might think.

Jet lag can be a drag for the people going transatlantic and you do have
overhead at the location - getting setup, shopping / cooking, figuring out
where you are and what to do in the evening.

But all travelling together, and solving those problems is part of the fun and
team-building. We all look forward to the trips and enjoy the planning
process, so it's not even just about the focus benefits on the trip itself.

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michaelpinto
Actually this technique is what rock stars use to do to record an album --
they'd go to a remote location to pick up on the vibes of the local music
scene instead of the usual hubs of the industry like LA or London.

~~~
dualogy
So now I can finally truthfully call myself a Rockstar Developer...

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hinathan
Travis Kalanik (founder of Uber) did this back in 2006 to great effect,
decamped the team to Thailand:
<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119179859820351674.html>

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jaredsohn
One interesting aspect of this is that they were able to reduce costs by
scheduling the trip between moving out of their old office and moving into
their new one.

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njyx
Genius move!

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yesimahuman
I will definitely be doing this for my startup. Another great post is
Balsamiq's post on their "Work Retreats":
<http://blogs.balsamiq.com/team/2011/07/03/retreat/>

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sumang
Hey , I am from Barcelona , would like to invite you for some beers if you are
interested :)

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sdepablos
Welcome (again) to Barcelona ;)

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njyx
We're based in Barcelona - We'll do an office exchange if the counter location
is right!

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tedmiston
A work-cation. Interesting.

