
Geeksphone's Firefox OS smartphones go on sale tomorrow - Jhsto
http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2013/04/22/geeksphone-firefox-os-keon-peak-launch
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SwellJoe
I'm pretty excited about Firefox OS, honestly. While I loved my first two
Android phones (G1 dev phone, and Nexus One), I've hated my third (HTC
Sensation). I can blame HTC Sense for some of the disappointment, but I think
Android has become less stable over time. It restarts the desktop (dashboard,
or whatever the "main" screen is called) regularly, maps crashes all the time,
and sometimes the network just stops without warning or error. I've
occasionally rebooted the phone to find I've missed hours worth of calls and
text messages and Google Talk messages.

I'm also becoming frustrated with Google's evolution toward walled gardens, an
end to privacy, and away from the open (and anonymous, when needed) web.
Reader to Google+ is one indicator. CISPA is another. I consider Firefox a
good foil against that evolution, and I've started switching back to Firefox
for my primary browser. In time, Google will have less control over my online
life, because the trust I once had toward Google is fading.

I don't believe Google really believes in "Don't Be Evil", anymore, and so I
have to protect myself, and push back against Google's dominance. However
small my efforts may be to GOOG's bottom line. (And I still hold GOOG stock.
Ethically, I'm not sure where I stand on that.)

~~~
RyanMcGreal
I can't speak for your experiences with the HTC Sensation, but my Samsung
Galaxy S3 running Android 4.1.1 has been remarkably stable, especially
compared to my previous phone, an HTC Legend running Android 2.2.

As for broader issues you raise about openness vs. the walled garden, I'm also
excited to see alternatives like Firefox OS, Ubuntu Phone and so on take
shape.

~~~
criley
I have a Note II running 4.1.1 and I experience the OP's "deluge of
texts/notifications hours after the fact" issue. It's very frustrating to get
pinged with 10+ notifications at once that came in over the past hours.

To be fair, it's wifi related, but to be more fair: every single iOS device
gets texts and notifications from the identically same wifi network without
any issue.

~~~
untog
If it's anything like my work network, it's because you have ports blocked.
Agreed that it's annoying that iOS has no such problems, but I'm guessing we
have a minority problem.

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soapdog
I have two Geeksphone Keons in here and I've been speaking at events about
Firefox OS. I develop mobile apps and web for both Android and iOS and I find
that developing for Firefox OS is very refreshing. The OS gets out of your way
and you're free to create your own vision for an app.

You're not restricted to a walled garden and don't need to use the Firefox
Marketplace if you don't want to. Your app can be on the device or hosted on
your server and have an offline mode using appCache.

For those that want to know more, take a look at the developer hub at:

<https://marketplace.firefox.com/developers/>

All you need to develop is a copy of Firefox with the the Firefox OS Simulador
add-on installed. The rest is just HTML/CSS/JS. The hardware is exposed using
the webAPI which can be seen at <https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI>.

:-D

PS: I am a Mozilla Rep.

~~~
protomyth
Can I buy a Geeksphone Keon and just use it on wifi or do I need a cell
provider? I am thinking of getting one just to do some development.

~~~
tracker1
+1 on this question... would be nice to be able to use things like this with a
SIP client over wifi instead of or in addition to mobile.

Another question that is somewhat unclear is in the US will I get 3G/4G data
on what carriers? Would prefer to keep my T-Mobile MVNO over AT&T.

~~~
soapdog
these phones are unlocked so they work with any carrier. One of my keons is
only on wifi and has no simcard, it works fine.

currently I am not aware of a SIP client for the system.

~~~
protomyth
Thanks for the answer

~~~
soapdog
You're welcome! If you need any more information about Firefox OS check out
the developer hub at:

<https://marketplace.firefox.com/developers/>

:-)

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untog
This highlights the different strategy Firefox OS is taking- completely
sidestepping North America and Europe, and putting out cheap devices in
emerging markets.

We'll see if it works out, but it seems like a very clever strategy to me.
There is no way Mozilla is going to outcompete Apple and Google in marketing,
but there are many people out there in world still using dumbphones that could
upgrade when given the right opportunity.

~~~
pyre
I would be interested in a smartphone that doesn't require a Google account
(or an Apple account) to function.

~~~
untog
Get an Android phone and don't sign into your Google account (and flash a ROM
that has it all removed, if you'd like). There are APKs available of non-Play
Store stores that should let you find alternate map apps, etc..

~~~
JoshTriplett
I've done that, but I'd still like to get a few apps from the official Play
store, and I haven't found any other way to download and install them.

~~~
tagawa
I've found <http://f-droid.org/> to be an increasingly viable alternative
Android app store. All open source so obviously the choice is comparatively
smaller, but it seems to have pretty much everything I need.

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wpietri
I'm really excited to see this get to market. The number of developers who
already know enough JavaScript to get something done is large. And Mozilla is
interested in advancing the open web, not building a closed ecosystem.

I hope there are plans for FFOS tablets in the future. At ~$200 for a decent
tablet, they're cheap enough that you can start using them as single purpose
devices. The kitchen grocery list. Outside of every meeting room, showing the
room calendar. By the door to tell you whether or not to bring an umbrella and
which bus to catch. On the wall, as artwork. Basically, any place you might
previously have hung a sign. Having them be hackable by any webmonkey would be
perfect.

~~~
r00fus
> And Mozilla is interested in advancing the open web, not building a closed
> ecosystem.

This is definitely the problem with Chrome browser - I've seen a lot of
enhancements to that product that seem of very little use for a browser
sitting on a functional mobile/desktop OS but critical if it happens to be the
only native app (ie, ChromeOS).

Meanwhile, FF quietly just works for all of my needs and has gotten a lot
better in the past several releases.

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tellarin
Between Firefox OS devices and Jolla (<http://jolla.com/>) Sailfish OS ones,
the next months will be pretty interesting.

Can't wait to play with both of them.

It would be even more awesome if they strongly cooperated somehow, though.

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mokkol
This weekend I was at a Firefox OS workshop in Madrid. They gave me a Phone
for free to play/hack with. I think they will have a big chance. The phones
are very good for the price and Firefox OS works alright. They have to fix a
lot of bugs but they are on the right track.

And it is so easy to make apps, to put them on your phone or market.

~~~
untog
Where did you find out about that event? I'd be interested to attend a future
event.

~~~
mokkol
<https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/03/firefox-os-app-workshops/>

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miles_matthias
I hope this goes well. I got excited about using web technologies to build
native mobile applications with WebOS, but am happier to see the non-profit
Mozilla take charge on it.

I also agree with other commenters that it's a great idea for them to attack
the emerging markets rather than compete with the huge players in the US and
Europe. Excited to see that revolution.

I've always supported Mozilla's mission, but I'm still a Chrome user because I
feel like it's a more polished consumer product, particular in the area of
design. Every time I get that F the establishment motivation and open Firefox,
I look at the tab structure and the separate url and search bars and close it
again. Sad face.

~~~
Yoric
In case you wonder, the reason for which Firefox doesn't merge url and search
bar is to protect user's privacy. If you prefer a Chrome-style UI, there are a
couple of add-ons that provide just that.

~~~
miles_matthias
I hadn't heard that it was a privacy issue. I'll have to check out those
addons, thanks!

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kibwen
As an ignorant American who knows zip about smartphones (still carrying around
an ancient dumbphone, desperate for an upgrade) what would it take to actually
receive calls on one of these? Do Verizon et al just let you waltz into a
store with a phone and buy cell service?

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wmf
Verizon or Sprint, no. T-Mobile, yes. AT&T can technically sell you a SIM card
but the people in the store probably do not know how.

~~~
jff
I have just showed up at the local AT&T store and asked for a prepaid SIM.
Walked out 10 minutes later with a re-fillable month-to-month account that I
used for testing.

~~~
ccozan
Did that too. Funny thing, I was visiting US, had no address here, but the
AT&T guy seem to like the idea to use my hotel's address. 10mins later, I was
calling at local rates, not using my crazy european roaming fees. Very good
service, even tho I was in a rural area.

So yes, they know and willing to sell you the SIM cards under very uncommon
conditions. PS. just occured to me that in US you don't have ID cards, but you
use the driving license for ID. So it's very relative where you live and
what's your name. Correct me if I'm wrong ( that was in 2009 ).

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nodata
115 euros off contract, including VAT? Not bad.. can't find details on sd card
support though.

~~~
robinwauters
KEON: \------- CPU Qualcomm Snapdragon S1 7225AB 1Ghz. UMTS 2100/1900/900 (3G
HSPA). GSM 850/900/1800/1900 (2G EDGE). Screen 3.5" HVGA Multitouch. Camera 3
MP. 4 GB (ROM) and 512 MB (RAM). MicroSD, Wifi N, Bluetooth 2.1 EDR, Radio FM,
Light & Prox. Sensor, G-Sensor, GPS, MicroUSB. Battery 1580 mAh.

PEAK: \------- CPU Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 8225 1.2Ghz x2. UMTS 2100/1900/900
(3G HSPA). GSM 850/900/1800/1900 (2G EDGE). Screen 4.3" qHD IPS Multitouch.
Camera 8 MP (back) + 2 MP (front). 4 GB (ROM) and 512 MB (RAM). MicroSD, Wifi
N, Bluetooth 2.1 EDR, Radio FM, Light & Prox. Sensor, G-Sensor, GPS, MicroUSB,
Flash (camera). Battery 1800 mAh.

~~~
tobiasu
Qualcomm, that means no datasheet. Too bad, it certainly looks interesting for
the price.

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jareds
The first thing I thought when I looked at this was that with CyanogenMod this
could be a great secondary phone I could use to keep track of Android
accessibility as well as learn android programming. Then I looked at the
Android 4.2 hardware requirements and it looks like it won't have enough ram
to provide a good experience. I won't get one of these until Firefox OS has
enough accessibility for blind users to be used on a daily basis.

~~~
fabrice_d
We have accessibility coming for Firefox OS. It still need some work, but I've
seen text to speech working really well last week on a target device (with
256MB of RAM).

~~~
jareds
I'd be interested in alpha/beta testing, if I can be of help let me know how I
can contact you.

~~~
fabrice_d
You can mail me: fabrice [at] mozilla.com

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lnanek2
Hardware isn't very thrilling. Even the better spec'd peak is qHD vs. current
Android flagships' 1080P screen resolution, a processor generation back, 4GB
ROM vs. 32GB and 64GB internal memory, no LTE. The Keon model is a step
further back yet.

That does let them offer a very affordable price at least, and probably meant
much cheaper to get an ODM since there isn't anything new about the hardware.
LTE isn't as important outside US and with fewer contract subsidies the price
is more important. They might manage some low end sales this way and get some
developers to pickup an extra developer device.

I think the bigger OEMs avoid this sort of thing because there isn't much
profit margin, but it might be enough for a small company to get by. You can't
really get huge sales unless you are in stores, but you can get some.

~~~
jodrellblank
The FireFox OS project is aiming for the dumbphone/featurephone market.

Source: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QnIskIc3EY>

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felipebueno
"...but will there be buyers?" Yes. I'm definitely buying a Peak and a Keon.
=)

~~~
logn
Yes I want one too. The only hitch is dealing with the actual providers in the
US, my current contract, and how much they want me on a plan that rips me off.
But I'd imagine this will be a moderate hit with developers who end up making
apps, which ends up selling more phones. I've never liked the Android or
iPhone development environments.

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rustc
Any details about shipping costs? And will non-EU countries also have to pay
the VAT fee? (Hosting companies do not charge VAT for non-EU customers.) 91
euros seems to be too tempting. :)

~~~
ccozan
You pay VAT only if you are from EU. Exports do not carry VAT, but you pay
customs fee.

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pnathan
Boy, I better get hopping on my FF OS app. :D

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paul9290
What are other developers doing and or using to create innovative streaming
audio/video web apps for Firefox OS?

We have a flash fallback for streaming for Firefox desktop, but we havent had
a chance to look at Firefox OS.

~~~
Jhsto
In theory, you could use WebRTC to stream data from phone to phone as P2P
connections.

I've also been toying around with a Spotify streamer, which uses websockets to
stream data from open.spotify.com to client side using binary websockets. I
managed to create it natively without using any client side JS libaries, so as
soon as binary websockets will be supported on phones, I'll be able to stream
music to my phone. The music is playable trough HTML5 music player and
currently works on mobiles with a workaround, where the music is first piped
to a file and then referenced in DOM. Sadly, the hosting service took my
servers down because of DMCA and for the same reason I've kept the source code
private.

It is written in node.js

~~~
fzzzy
WebRTC is not in gecko 18 which is the version Firefox OS will initially ship
with (ffos versions 1.0.1 and 1.1). WebRTC support should make it into firefox
os when we pull from mozilla central again to branch off version 1.2, but
development won't be getting started on 1.2 until later in the summer.

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zokier
Based on these specs I guess my good old Galaxy Nexus should have no problem
running FirefoxOS? I'm really hoping it'll be ported to existing devices too.

~~~
codfrantic
[https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/Firefox_OS_build_prerequisites#Have_a_compatible_device_or_use_an_emulator)
Galaxy Nexus is specified as a Tier 3 device. :)

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wuest
This is exciting news. I'll probably end up with one of these as well as a
Jolla (the Sailfish phone) in the near future.

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rglover
Slightly related: does anyone know when the first Ubuntu phone is being
released (specifically, in the US)?

~~~
pilgrim689
"Ubuntu will be ready for smartphones at retail in Q4 2013."
<http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/contact-us>

It'll be interesting to see it go head-to-head with Android. I think it has
potential simply because of how popular Ubuntu is, whereas Google has yet to
release a proper desktop operating system.

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bcj
Phones are now available. I just ordered a peak.

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scrapcode
Why is there so much boast over this fellas age? Didn't this just happen...

