

Reasons You Should Quit Facebook - rwolf
http://www.rocket.ly/home/2010/4/26/top-ten-reasons-you-should-quit-facebook.html

======
houseabsolute
Why this article is crap.

>> 10\. Facebook's Terms Of Service are completely one-sided

No they aren't. In return for accepting them, you get to use the site. See?
Two-sided.

>> 9\. Facebook's CEO has a documented history of unethical behavior

Then he proceeds to list one unproven allegation, and one lawsuit settlement.
We sometimes settle lawsuits where the negative outcome, although unjust, is
likely enough that the settlement is probably cheaper. These points so
laughably fail the "documented" standard that I should just stop reading now,
but I can't.

>> 8\. Facebook has flat out declared war on privacy

They are responding to their users' preferences. If anything, users have
declared war on privacy. The site is designed to shared information about
yourself. If signing up for that site is not an invitation to privacy
invasion, what is? And is it surprising that someone who believes most people
want to share information about themselves, as the CEO of Facebook surely
must, does not care about privacy as much as the author, who is obviously all
about it?

>> 7\. Facebook is pulling a classic bait-and-switch

Members, by and large, don't care. It's not Facebook's responsibility to
constantly nag people about the privacy implications of setting their privacy
settings to "off". It would make the site more difficult and annoying to use,
and would likely have immeasurably small impact.

>> 6\. Facebook is a bully

Wait, are we complaining about how Facebook fails to protect user privacy, or
how Facebook is overzealous in protecting user privacy? It's flat out false
that Facebook sued this guy. They did force him to cease and desist by
threatening to sue him. Maybe they should update their robots.txt, but that's
hardly a reason to stop using them.

>> 5\. Even your private data is shared with applications [that you install]

Oh, just like my regular computer. Should I stop using that too? Most Facebook
applications rely on some set of private data to make interesting features
work. Installing these applications would be a usability nightmare for people
who have their privacy shields turned up, which ironically would probably
decrease the number of people using those settings. This is because most of
Facebook's users, even the ones with privacy settings turned up, only care
about privacy when it doesn't get in their way, and when having to choose
between privacy and easy functionality, they will take the latter.

>> 4\. Facebook is not technically competent enough to be trusted

They are dealing with an enormous attack surface and highly motivated
attackers. I think what you mean to say is, "Facebook's engineers cannot
perfectly cover all possible vulnerabilities that their business requirements
expose them to." They are normally quick with responses and fixes, so that's a
problem, but not one that any other company doing this would avoid. But the
whole "technically competent" thing is BS. They are obviously technically
competent based on the various open source projects they have released and
which are seeing wide adoption.

>> 3\. Facebook makes it incredibly difficult to truly delete your account

If my friends are any indication, many people who delete their accounts
eventually want them back. Keeping those people from making a mistake they
will later regret is probably a feature.

As far as making no promises about deleting your data, I can say that
especially in a NoSQL environment it's very difficult to track down every
little piece of data that belongs to a user. Sometimes this data is in formats
that are not mutable on an individual-record basis. At my workplace we
sometimes aggregate data in SSTables (see the Bigtable paper for details)
that, did they contain user data, would not be immediately modifiable for each
user that wanted to delete their account.

>> 2\. Facebook doesn't (really) support the Open Web

This is not an issue for most normal people. But if it is an issue for you and
you want to make a moral statement by closing your Facebook account, by all
means, do. Facebook's incentives for maintaining their walled garden to some
extent probably outweigh the loss of every user account for every person that
even cares an iota about this issue.

>> 1\. The Facebook application itself sucks

Seems like a lot of people like it and derive some use out of it. Sorry you
don't.

This article is idiotic. Most of the points are flat out false, and the rest
are taste issues where the author is out of touch with the zeitgeist.

~~~
argv_empty
_They are responding to their users' preferences._

So they claim, but users already had the option of making everything public.
Removing options is not motivated by the wishes of the users.

 _The site is designed to shared information about yourself._

The site was designed to share that information with a particular group of
people selected by the user.

------
tptacek
I didn't sign up with Facebook expecting them to be good at any of these
things. I don't care about Facebook privacy: I didn't give them any private
data. I don't care if applications can see my private data: my data isn't
private and, more importantly, I don't sign up for applications. I don't plan
on going into business with Facebook. I don't care how they treat their
developer partners. None of this stuff matters to me.

Why am I pointing this out? Because I think my attitude represents a huge
chunk of Facebook's users, and I think most of what's left over after you
subtract that chunk consists of people who don't care about privacy _period_.

I use LinkedIn for business. I use Twitter for geeky stuff. I use Facebook for
non-geeky stuff and to post pictures of my kids in their halloween costumes.
It all seems to be working out OK for me.

~~~
codexon
_Because I think my attitude represents a huge chunk of Facebook's users_

A common mistake people make here is to think they represent the majority.
Hacker news is a very small community.

~~~
lisp123
It always astounds me that 30-year-olds or older think they represent the
average Facebook user. I have never seen anyone older than 30 write anything
intelligent about Facebook. You people are not real users. Please understand
this. How you "use" Facebook is so completely different from how people in
college and recent grads use Facebook. For you, most of your pictures were
what you actually posted yourself. For real Facebook power users, the vast,
vast majority of photos come from other people. It's becoming clear that
understanding of Facebook is the clearest dividing line between those in their
late twenties and beyond and those younger. You pretend users really sound
like old men shouting at kids to stay off your lawn. Why don't you at least
try to educate yourselves about how Facebook actually works?

~~~
vickrum
I started university when I was 18, and at the same time I joined Facebook.
I'm now 22, close to graduating, and Facebook chronicles my last 4 years of
misadventure. Yet I have to agree with tptacek, it's not a big deal.

It's not hard to untag yourself from dodgy photos, leave silly groups, clean
up your profile and put professional contacts in a restricted list. Most
importantly though, I've come to the conclusion most people _expect_ you to
have dirt on Facebook. If your boss wants to be your friend on Facebook and
doesn't get why you won't actually share any personal info with them... well,
good luck to you, but my professional contacts all seem to understand (and
often reciprocate for the same reasons).

That photo you untagged yourself from but your friend is in so mutual friends
can still see it - I'll agree that's a problem, but not worth throwing a hissy
about. We "lost our privacy" the day the camera was invented.

------
ihodes
I did sign up expecting these things: and I was assured of them in their
privacy policy _at the time_ , so I was obviously meant to expect them.

Check out (linked to in the posted article_
<http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/facebook-timeline/> to see what others
expected.

I have plenty of non-geeky friends and acquaintances who expected the same
thing. This isn't something that only us (some of us, I should say) HNers care
about: this is a gross violation of trust.

Excellent compendium of reasons to quit: thanks for the article!

------
henrikschroder
The only thing that will get the enormous bulk of Facebook users to quit is if
some other product starts filling the same need that Facebook does.

The ten points listed in this blog are of absolutely no concern to the average
Facebook user.

------
saikat
And speaking of which - I just tried to opt out of their instant
personalization "feature" for Yelp. I missed the blue banner initially, so now
I'm trying to change things the very hard way. I get the message on top of
yelp that says "Yelp is using Facebook to personalize your experience." I
click on Options next to it and then go to "How to turn this off". There, I
click the big red button that says "Disconnect Yelp and Facebook". This button
tells me I have to do more at my privacy page at facebook and links me to
<http://www.facebook.com/sitetour/connect.php> . At this page, I hunt for the
link to the actual Privacy settings. I click on this link and then click "Edit
Setting next to "Instant Personalization Pilot Program." I then uncheck "Allow
select partners to instantly personalize their features with my public
information when I first arrive on their websites." I go back to Yelp and I
see "Yelp is using Facebook to personalize your experience" still at the top
of Yelp. Why was this so hard to do, and how come after all that, I can't even
opt out?

~~~
Raphael
Clear your cookies for both sites?

------
ams6110
Facebook is a fad. It will be gone or irrelevant in 5 years. Just my opinion.

~~~
codexon
If history is any indication, Facebook will fade out very slowly like Myspace,
if there is a new competitor.

~~~
dcurtis
If history is any indication, Google will fade out slowly like AltaVista, if
there's a new competitor.

(Making the assumption that Facebook will be replaced this way is kind of
stupid; Facebook is competent, MySpace wasn't.)

~~~
pavel_lishin
It's not a binary thing. Facebook is more competent than MySpace; doesn't mean
that someone can't be more competent than Facebook.

~~~
dcurtis
I don't think that is likely. It would be extremely difficult to be more
innovative and more competent than Facebook. That's like saying you should
worry about a company that could outmaneuver Apple. Sure, it's possible, but
it's extremely unlikely.

Say what you will about Facebook's policies, the company is run extremely
well.

------
jrockway
So yesterday I said, "who cares" about these articles. But today, I deleted my
account.

The main reason is that I don't use it, and people that friend me might feel
bad because I never reply. Now that won't be a problem -- I won't even exist
there. Follow me on Twitter instead.

------
jbrun
Great post, I pretty much have the same reasoning and though I used to be
hyper-active facebook user, I quit over 3 months ago and it feels great.

my post is here, slacktivism and why i quit facebook:
[http://www.jonathanbrun.com/2010/04/slacktivism-and-why-i-
qu...](http://www.jonathanbrun.com/2010/04/slacktivism-and-why-i-quit-
facebook.html)

glad to hear the mouvement is growing.

------
thmz
Why are people so seriously angry about stuff like this?

If you don't like Facebook, just quit and get a drink with your friends.

~~~
techiferous
He may be trying to educate others who are assuming facebook has a stricter
privacy policy than they actually do.

------
pkghost
His first point (10) is flatly contradicted by Facebook's TOS, which was
revised 4 days before his blog post. You do own your data, you just grant
Facebook the mother of all licenses to it. The license is revoked when you
delete your account, except in the case of data you've shared with your
friends, which is probably almost everything.

~~~
Raphael
> which was revised 4 days before

Kind of hard to keep track. I wouldn't have expected this document to be such
a fast-moving target.

~~~
pkghost
I took a look at it again today and it had been _seriously_ reworked (no more
outline layout, revised copy), but the last-revised date hadn't changed. Color
me annoyed, but not surprised.

------
hkuo
Do you want to go through life scared of everything, hiding in a hole, or do
you want to be out there, prone to danger, but in the mix of daily life?

This is just a classic balance between security and openness.

The more secure you try to make things, the less usable things become, and the
more you worry about things you don't need to worry about. The more open you
make things, the easier and more efficient things become, and life is more
enjoyable. You might get bruised and cut every once in a while, but it's the
price you pay for a more open, fun, and social life.

I'm in agreement with Zuckerberg on this. Openness is the future, whether we
like it or not, and you can either fight it and become a hippie 2.0, or just
go with the flow and enjoy the advantages that come with.

------
greenlblue
The whole facebook thing is just fundamentally wrong. Facebook doesn't have
users, it has statistics. Any company that treats its users as just numbers
does not have my support.

------
RyanMcGreal
Like any company, Facebook sells a product to its customers. The product is
user data, and the customers are those willing to pay for access to that data.
As a result, Facebook is under constant economic pressure to maximize its
ability to sell that data to its customers.

Zuckerberg has a _huge_ incentive to promote the idea that privacy is passe or
somehow doesn't matter, because the more he can convince his users to accept
having their data made public, the more value he can deliver to his customers.

~~~
joe24pack
So the Zuckster is mining his users for gold. There's gold in them 'thar hills
of users ...

------
FlemishBeeCycle
So last week, complain about the iPad? This week, complain about Facebook?

~~~
megablast
I know, it is almost as if we are trying to express out opinions on different
things. Weird, isn't it.

~~~
FlemishBeeCycle
I was more alluding to the deluge of _very-similar_ opinions on a single topic
in a finite period. While the iPad is a new thing, Facebook has been around
and been engaging in the same behavior that gave rise of these complaints for
some time now.

