
Ask HN: Client is bullying for refund since beginning - codegeek
If you have a client who signedup for your SAAS service and after 5 months wants a full refund going back to his start date, is that reasonable ? Not to mention that terms and conditions clearly say no refund after 30 days. He is using scare tactics and threatening to take legal action because he apparently missed &quot;Deadlines&quot;. Typical example of client from hell. What will you guys do or have done in situations like these ?
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saluki
I would go ahead and refund 2 months of his subscription, I would only do this
through stripe (or your payment gateway) so they can see the refunds if he
initiates a chargeback for charges.

Send him a polite email that you have refunded two months which goes beyond
the terms of service of 30 day refunds and thank him for trying out your app.

If you can see what type of card he used you could call their customer service
and try to find out how long they have to make a chargeback and then refund
back to that date if it's 120 days, refunding three payments might cover it or
90 days two payments might cover it depending on how long this discussion has
been going on.

On the other hand if $1000 won't make or break your cash flow just refund the
whole amount so he'll go on his merry way and maybe you can avoid a negative
evangelist for your app. Plus chargebacks are going to cost you fees and
time/hassle.

Sometimes you just run in to problem clients as a consultant and SaaS owner.

Good luck closing things out with him.

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davismwfl
You already got great advice and took the right action IMO. Just a point from
having dealt with a number of clients like this and a few that also deserved
refunds.

The ones that you know deserve a refund are easy to give it to because you
feel it in your bones that it is the right decision, don't question yourself
on those. The ones like this person are not being reasonable, but throwing
them a small bone is a minor factor. From my own perspective when a client is
obviously being a jerk and threatening legal action, I generally say something
to the affect, "I am sorry that there is nothing we can do for you at this
point given your position". Sometimes I will point out to them that based on
the T&C's they agreed to that their legal fees will be significant considering
that when I prove they are in the wrong based on the agreed to T&C's, they
will also owe all my attorney fees and costs.

Bully's consistently back down to one thing, an informed person that is
willing to meet them head on. Usually the calmer you are, and the more
reasonable but extremely firm in your position the better.

I was in my personal attorney's office one day when he got a call from a large
enterprise that he had already sued and one a settlement against for his home
siding that apparently was defective. They were trying to get him to also sign
away more rights and agree not to represent anyone else or share any
information about his case, and they wanted a joint stipulation to seal the
case. I loved his response to their attorney on the phone, he said, well, I
could do that, or I could form a class action suit against you for even
suggesting that other people don't have the same right I did to a refund and
damages. One bully vs someone unafraid, the company backed down and cut him a
check and he made the case public but didn't go after the company anymore.
Just always sat with me, he never yelled, never got offended, just made is
position extremely clear and unwavering.

~~~
codegeek
thx for your response. I am a bit overwhelmed with all this but this guy is a
real jerk. Yes, I may even have given him a full refund (unreasonable of
course) if he had just asked nicely. May be. But he is using scare tactics.
Why are people so evil in this world.

~~~
davismwfl
Totally understand feeling overwhelmed, good people usually feel that way when
someone tries to take advantage of them.

Try to hold out and not give a full refund, I say this for two reasons. First
is the principle, Second is for the potential legal situation it puts you in.
Yes, you have the right to make almost whatever decision you want, however, if
you refund his entire amount then the next jerk that comes along may use it as
a point that you violated your own T&C's, so he deserves his full refund too.
I am not an attorney so you could ask one for specific advice, but I have been
told that exact thing more than once by my own attorney. He constantly tells
me to make sure I hold people to the T&C's and that I shouldn't "violate" them
either without extenuating circumstances which can be documented to prove a
unique circumstance that warranted me doing so.

Good luck no matter what.

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calcsam
The main risk here he is that he issues a chargeback on the credit card he
used. That would be a hassle. If you are not worried about them politely
inform him you won't be doing what he wants, then block his emails unless he
actually sues you.

~~~
codegeek
so what do you suggest ? Is it worth the hassle for me ? The refund will be
about $1000 though. He is clearly trying to bully here because he legally has
no grounds. I am willing to fight the chargebacks but I doubt he will take any
legal route because what is he going to prove ? All records says that he
signed up agreeing to the terms and conditions.

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insoluble
It's prudent to recognise that some clients are too inexperienced to
understand what makes one business profitable and another a failure. A lot of
the time, these clients will believe that the failure is all because of this
or that -- some small factor -- when in reality their unique selling
proposition is flawed or even nonexistent. They nit pick the small "problems"
rather than notice the big ones.

------
steve_taylor
Is this the same client that cares more about the people behind the product
than the product itself?

~~~
codegeek
haha no. this one is different. But really, for SAAS providers, how to handle
clients like these ? On principal and even legality, this is wrong. He is just
trying to bully here.

~~~
steve_taylor
You don't need customers like this. What is your SaaS product anyway, if you
don't mind me asking?

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pavornyoh
My question is, why does he want a refund? What concerns does he have?

~~~
codegeek
No concerns really. He signed up, did not do much work. It is a do it yourself
platform. Now he claims that we did not provide the service we agreed to. Of
course, this is a SAAS. When he signed up, he agreed to terms and conditions
which clearly list that we are just a platform AND there is no refund after 30
days.

he is claiming that his bootstrapped business failed some deadlines and
deliverables because of us, lol really. That is just hilarious.

He is claiming a lot of things honestly and it is just plain lie. The question
here really is: Should I continue doing this back and forth fight with him or
just pay him the entire refund ? I am offering him last month's refund as a
token but even that is against the terms and conditions.

~~~
pavornyoh
> I am offering him last month's refund as a token but even that is against
> the terms and conditions.

That is very generous of you. If he was not happy, he should have cancelled in
30 days. I wouldn't go back and forth with him nor would I give him a penny
more if I were in your shoes. You are in to make a profit as well. Imagine if
all your customers did this? Stand firm and don't give him a dime.

~~~
codegeek
Thx. I wrote back to him finally saying "No". But still offered him the last
month refund as a token to make him feel good about him and his sorry ass.
Also told him that if he doesn't take this offer, then he is free to do
whatever he needs to do. I refuse to be bullied by these idiots.

~~~
pavornyoh
>But still offered him the last month refund as a token to make him feel good
about him and his sorry ass.

Good guy you are. Stand firm and call his bluff. 5 months is a long time to
not realize something isn't working for a business.

