
Fitness for geeks: my annual review of the Stronglifts 5x5 program - teekay
http://tomaskohl.com/blog/2011/01/fitness-for-geeks/
======
joshklein
The simple truth is that any (non-crackpot) regimented training program will
significantly improve a geek's fitness. Learning the minute details of weight
training, nutrition, and other (important!) subjects is for marginal gains on
top of a base level of fitness which the majority of the population lacks.

Learn enough to safely accomplish basic exercises without ego-shattering self-
consciousness, do them routinely and with an increasing level of difficulty,
and you will become more fit. Great research on procrastination suggests that
too many choices for what to do will lead you to not do anything. If you are
not already at a base level of "good shape", whether you lift in one program
or another, jog, play sports, or walk the stairs at work, you are NOT going to
choose "wrong".

Guaranteed or your money back.

(Please note that I say this as a diehard HST-devotee who cross trains for
soccer and MMA. But none of that stuff mattered when I was gassed after 30
minutes of light exercise.)

~~~
cynicalkane
With weight training, for example, not worrying about the details and just
doing it might lead to serious injury. You need to do these exercises with
proper form. And if you're an out of shape computer geek, you will almost
certainly need to fix your posterior chain and upper back before you are ready
to do deadlift, squat, bench, and shoulder press safely.

~~~
scott_s
You can squat, deadlift, bench and shoulder press on your first day. Here is a
simple, two step process to start squatting:

1\. Stand up.

2\. Squat.

Oh, there's a lot more to it. And some people actually find air squats harder
than weighted squats because there's no counter-balance. But the basic
powerlifter movements - squat, deadlift, bench - can be done by people on
their first day as long as they use very little weight. In fact, I think it's
best to _start_ with those movements to build strength. Having someone to
correct your form is good, of course, but not everyone has that luxury and may
have to monitor themselves. That's doable as well.

~~~
saturdaysaint
The idea that proper form is self evident or intuitively learned is naive,
especially in regard to people whose daily responsibilities don't demand much
coordination. If you want to look good for a few years, then yes, you can
develop muscle by just going through the motions, but you run a very big risk
of systemic injury. I highly recommend anyone looking to get in shape start
with a few sessions with a personal trainer who can give feedback on form.

~~~
scott_s
It's not intuitive nor self evident. But a motivated beginner can learn on
their own - I did. I read a lot, watched videos, and paid close attention to
my own form. I would have done better with an instructor, but that was not an
option. Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight
lifts.

What I'm trying to dispel is the notion that _you shouldn't touch free
weights_ or that _free weights are for experienced people only_. Use very low
weight in the beginning, but no one should start out on machines, nor should
they be scared of starting.

~~~
vimalg2
__Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts.
__

This is spot-on where I live. (Kerala, India)

The trainers have no experience with proper form coaching for the basic
powerlifting exercises.

All the gyms here promote themselves as 'Bodybuilding gyms'.

All the members want to look like the muscle-bound moviestars from 'Bollywood'
(presumably to get 'ze girls' :p)

I'm maybe 1 of 3 people in the whole gym clientele(all male) that even uses
the Squat Rack. I'm on Stronglifts 5x5 for a month now and my lifts are
definitely improving and so is my flexibility and core 'balance'.

Surprising side-effect: I don't feel 'clumsy' anymore.

And yeah, I get into long winded arguments with the 'trainers' twice a month,
about why i don't use the cable machines for 'ze body'.

As an engineer at heart, I like to explain the idea to them something like:
"You can pimp your cheap-ass car with all the bling you want, but when it
counts, the German engine is going to make the difference. Besides, there's no
harm in adding bling _after_ you've got your own finely-tuned German engine
under the hood"

Yes, its corny, but it got the message across and got the 'trainers' off my
back.

~~~
grammaton
I too am one of the only people in my gym who seems to care about building
strength as opposed to trying to look like it.

As an anecdotal example: I finished five sets of farmer's walks with 105 pound
(about 47 and a half kilograms) dumbbells in each hand. After I'd finished, I
was approached by a bodybuilder type and told that I was wasting my time. What
I really needed to do, he explained, was to do lunges in place, because what I
was doing now wasn't "doing anything."

Apparently being able to pick up two hundred pounds of weight and walk around
with it wasn't "doing anything."

Honestly, you're wasting your time getting into it with people like this. It's
just a fundamentally different mindset. I just thank them politely for their
advice (after all, they really do mean well, they just don't understand) and
get on with my routine.

~~~
scott_s
A bodybuilder-type once asked me what farmer's walks "works." Everything, I
said.

Bodybuilders don't have much concept of conditioning, outside of being able to
flex for long periods of time. Powerlifters care about raw strength, but for
them, conditioning is being able to hit several very high lifts in the big
three at a meet. It is a kind of conditioning, no question, but they're still
going to gas pretty soon in any prolonged activity. Strongmen competitors, on
the other hand, I think are phenomenal athletes who combine enormous strength
with great conditioning.

------
PaulHoule
I'm skeptical of anybody who claims to have a simple answer to success at
weight training. The more I learn about weight training, the more ignorant I
feel.

A few books I've enjoyed lately are 'Starting Strength' by Rippetoe and
Killgore and Brookfield's 'Master of Hand Strength'. The latter book is a real
eye-opener: every page is stuffed with information that makes sense, but you
never would have thought of. (Hand development, of course, is important for
computer keyboardists.)

Although it's not a complete weightlifting manual, I like the attitude of
Bruce Lee's 'Art of Expressing the Human Body', which turned me on to circuit
training. Some other good books which are more focused on bodyweight training
are Cook's 'Athletic Body in Balance' and Boyle's 'Functional Training For
Sports'.

    
    
       People with with injuries or chronic pain can benefit greatly from training,  but they need to be smart about it.
    
      For instance,  my knees are wonky so I watch my workload and avoid traditional 2-leg extension exercises such as the leg press and the 2-leg squat.  Instead I do single-leg exercises and intense hamstring work that has stabilized my knees.
    
       At some point you're going to transcend other people's cookie-cutter programs.  For instance,  reading Lee and Brookfield has gotten me to focus on forearm and grip strength,  because everybody I see who lifts has big upper arms and scrawny forearms.  The more you learn about it,  the more you'll discover there is to learn.

~~~
eru
I'd recommend starting with `Starting Strength's cookie-cutter program, until
you know what you are doing.

Any quick hint or URL you can give for forearm strength? I'm also doing some
climbing and pull-ups/chin-ups, but I don't know whether that's enough.

~~~
matwood
If you want to work on grip strength by itself take a small wooden dowel and
drill a hole through the middle. Tie a rope through the hole and then tie a
weight to the other end. Now use your hands to roll the weight up and down.

Another fun one is a modified dead lift. Your plates need to have a lip on
them to make it work. Put a plate on each side of a curl bar. Now DL the curl
bar by only gripping with your finger tips around the lip of the plate.

Personally, my grip strength has increased the most from doing pulling
exercises and dead lifts. I'm to the point now where I can DL 405lb w/o
straps. I still need straps to get into the 500s though.

~~~
eru
Thanks for the hints. What's a lip on a plate? (Sorry, English is only my
second language.)

I'm doing 130kg at deadlifts at the moment. I never used straps. I use the
overhand grip for all warm-up sets (40kg, 60kg, 82.5kg, 105kg at the moment)
and the alternating grip for the working set.

I've also done some indoor climbing recently. That needs and works grip
strength. (Though I'd like to improve between climbing sessions, too. That's
why I asked.)

~~~
matwood
Instead of being smooth from center to edge there is a small 'lip' around the
outside edge that can be used to grip on. If you set it up right you'll be
doing deadlifts with only your finger tips providing the grip. Does that make
sense? Here's a picture of a weight plate with a 'lip.'

[http://www.promaximamfg.com/(S(smc4ibr3edzbljmooije5c55))/de...](http://www.promaximamfg.com/\(S\(smc4ibr3edzbljmooije5c55\)\)/default.aspx/act/Catalog.aspx/catalogid/395/category/Weight+Plates+-+Bars+-+Racks/browse//MenuGroup/contact+us/desc/Wide+Lip+Olympic+Plates.htm)

------
ryankirkman
Free weight strength training is one of the greatest things you could do to
improve your health.

The program to which you refer
([http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-
tra...](http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-
program/)) seems to be a slightly different spin on Mark Ripptoe's legendary
Starting Strength program
([http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength...](http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs)).

If you are serious about improving your strength and health in general, buy
Mark's book ([http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-
Rippetoe/dp...](http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-
Rippetoe/dp/0976805421)). It is probably the best $30 investment I have ever
made.

NB: I am in no way affiliated with Mark Rippetoe. I simply have incredible
respect for the man.

~~~
acgourley
His book Practical Programming is also good if you want a slightly more
advanced take on the subject. It still has a chapter going over this beginning
workout and why it makes sense. Even though most people don't need the
advanced training programs, it's damn interesting to read about the science
behind them.

[http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Programming-Strength-
Trainin...](http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Programming-Strength-Training-
Rippetoe/dp/0976805413)

------
brown9-2
Looks like his web server has died, here is the Google cache version:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cac...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache:http://tomaskohl.com/blog/2011/01/fitness-
for-geeks/&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=)

~~~
teekay
It's back up again.

------
erik_p
I've used 5 x 5 to get in shape before. A lot of it made sense to me.. Free
weights are "better" than machines, squats are important, start light learn
the form and increase weight as you go.

I too was turned off by the author of the program - he comes across as a real
dick in his forums -- It's analogous to the "if you're not doing everything
the scrum way don't call what you're doing scrum" hardliners.

What's important to a newbie is the structure and the gradual, incremental
improvements. As Henry Rollins says "the iron doesn't lie" If each week you're
adding 5lbs that's measurable improvement and helps with the motivation.

I like to think of going to the gym like leveling up my constitution :)

Regardless if you do 5 x 5 or do "starting strength" just do _something_ and
get over the initial inertia. You'll be sore as hell that first week, but it
does get better.

My other suggestion is bring a friend of similar level of non-fitness and
start together (assuming you don't sabotage each other by talking each other
OUT of going to the gym each time) -- makes it less embarrassing when you have
a partner who is also struggling with a small amount of weight on the bar --
it's not a contest, but a little healthy competition and support goes a long
way.

Also try not to compare yourself to the meatheads in the gym with multiple
huge wheels of cheese on the bar... don't be intimidated. You're there to get
stronger and that's it.

 _shrug_

------
lincolnpark
The 5x5 programs are usually geared towards intermediates. I've done a few
cycles of Bill Starr's 5x5 program but only after I'd learned the rudiments of
weight training. I'd use starting strength as a beginning point, then progress
to 5x5, HST, MaxOT and any of the other programs you might find at
bodybuilding forums.

------
weeksie
I've been working out off and on since I was in high school and I figured I
would try something different this time around. I started with the HST program
and have been absolutely floored by the results. It sounds lime the 5x5
program he mentioned might be similar.

Anyway, the idea that muscles respond to increases in load more than the
absolute load itself, combined with the idea that sets beyond the first
working set offer little value sounded opposite to most of what I've heard
over the years. Six months in I've developed faster and more evenly then I
ever have. Anyway, it's worth looking into. Do a search for Hypertrophy
Specific Training (the site is all muscle-guy crazy but the info is good—and
free, the dude makes his money on supplement sales, not selling his program)

~~~
thesz
Thank you very much for mentioning HST.

I assume it is here: <http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html> as
it is top of the Google search.

Information from that website puts some things in proper context, like pumping
to heal tendon damage.

~~~
weeksie
That's the one. I would have linked it in my first post but I was writing on
my phone. There are a lot of things on there that clarified or outright
changed my view of weight training. I've been doing this program for the last
six months and not only have I made more progress in shorter time than ever
before, I also haven't hit plateaus, given myself an injury, or burnt out. And
I only spend about 2:30 hours per week in the gym.

------
lachyg
I did some research and looked into the Colorado Experiment, and as of late,
Tim Ferriss' Occam's protocol. From there I mix and matched what I thought
would be right after doing some research on the muscle groups I was looking to
hit.

The basic concept is 1 set til failure, 5/5 cadence (5 seconds lifting / 5s
lowering).

I've seen amazing gains within the past month I've been on the program. Have
increased some of my weights by up to 120%, whilst the minimum increase has
been 40%.

~~~
brown9-2
_increased some of my weights by up to 120%_

Just to be sure, do you mean that if you were lifting 50 lbs before in some
exercise, you're now lifting 110 lbs?

~~~
lachyg
Yes, that's right. It was on my triceps and leg curls. (When you start in
lower weights, the increase doesn't seem as drastic.)

I see someone has also down voted my original post, I guess that's because I
mention Tim Ferriss. _sigh_

------
unicornporn
In theory it might be beautiful, but I'd say 5x5 is a pretty awful way to
start if you are new to lifting weights.

If you've been sitting on a chair for 8-12 hours a day you will have lots of
muscular imbalances that needs to be corrected before starting a program like
this.

For instance, you will most likely not be able to activate your glutes during
the squat or deadlift. Your lower back will take the load. Meet pain and, if
you are unlucky, injury...

~~~
grammaton
> In theory it might be beautiful, but I'd say 5x5 is a pretty awful way to
> start if you are new to lifting weights.

Then you've obviously never tried it. It's actually a wonderful starting
program. I lifted for years and never made remotely the progress I have on
5x5. I wish I could go back and tell myself to start it sooner!

> If you've been sitting on a chair for 8-12 hours a day you will have lots of
> muscular imbalances that needs to be corrected before starting a program
> like this.

Rubbish. They'll get corrected quite fast by actually doing the exercises.

~~~
unicornporn
> > In theory it might be beautiful, but I'd say 5x5 is a pretty awful way to
> start if you are new to lifting weights.

> Then you've obviously never tried it. It's actually a wonderful starting
> program. I lifted for years and never made remotely the progress I have on
> 5x5. I wish I could go back and tell myself to start it sooner!

Yes I have tried it and I love it. I'm actually doing it right now. But you
really do not catch my point. You say "I lifted for years and never made
remotely the progress I have on 5x5". I say: good for you. Of course you
should continue on this program. But as you said yourself you had years of
lifting experience before starting on 5x5. My point is that it is a no good
starting point if you have never been lifting before.

~~~
grammaton
I disagree. The fact that I made progress on this program proves it's worth.
My prior experience with weight lifting isn't really relevant, especially
given the multi-year layoff in between. When I came to stronglifts I was, for
all intents and purposes, starting all over again. Based on my experience with
it so far, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to a beginner - and in fact,
have.

It's important to note - at the risk of sounding like i'm appealing to
authority - that the people who originally advocated this program have years
of experience training themselves, and training other people. At least one
well known proponent has a relevant degree. And no, these are not your usual
PHd in bro-science "trainers" - they've trained elite competitors and olympic
atheletes. If they say this a good program for beginners, I'm inclined to take
them at their word.

Having watched most of the beginners at the gym I'm at now, I can say for a
fact that stronglifts would be a hell of a lot better than the average
beginner's routine of sixty sets of curls, 20 sets of calf raises, 10 sets of
reverse-incline-dumbell-flye-extension-no-set-hyper-mega-extensions, etc.
etc....

------
scotch_drinker
Can't read the article since the server seems to have died but if you want a
combination of the strength training in Starting Strength and the conditioning
for sports like cross country skiing or soccer, Crossfit is excellent. I've
been doing it for a little over 2 years now and it combines all the aspects of
getting strong with the ability to do activities like skiing and soccer
easily.

------
jacques_chester
I went from SL to Olympic weightlifting.

A definite nerd sport -- totally about the elegant union of physics and
biology.

------
filiwickers
After tearing my achilles two years ago I became determined to fix my body's
structural imbalances. I cannot say enough about how powerful the Stronglifts
program is (and other similar programs). As a part of my training (along with
a lot of pilates and yoga) I have done the StrongLifts program. I had done
some weight training previously, was comfortable with each one of the lifts,
and could find my way around the weight room. I think StrongLifts was the
perfect lifting program for my situation, and will be to anyone else in a
similar place. Im going to comment a bit more about the actual program, what
you need to know about it, and why I recommend it.

Stronglifts uses two alternating workouts A, B. The program focuses on eight
different lifts (see site for full details). Workout A is Squats, Bench,
Inverted Rows, Push Ups; Workout B is Squats, Overhead Press, Deadlifts,
PullUps/ChinUps. The goal of the program is to build as much pure strength as
possible. And it works. Doing compound lifts like this allows you to use as
much muscle as possible while lifting the maximum amount of weight. The
downside is that these lifts are not the easiest to learn. The key is to START
LIGHT. Keep the weight light- lighter than you think- until you are
consistently lifting with good form.

If you are going to the gym with the goal of living a healthier life then you
are wasting your time if you are not squatting. Please - learn how to squat,
learn how to do it correctly, and get your butt as close to the ground as your
flexibility allows. A full-depth squat is healthier for knees, develops
additional muscles (mostly your butt), and is very impressive when you are
putting up 2xx pounds on your squat and your butt is almost touching the
ground.

Learning correct form for any lift is essential. Please learn the right form
when the weights are light. Once the weight gets higher your chances of injury
from incorrect form skyrocket. Learning a lift incorrectly also makes it
harder to learn correctly. So do it right the first time.

Now for my actual Stronglifts review. I love it. I am addicted to it. I never
in my life imagined I would be lifting as much as I am. I would not have
gotten here without sticking to Stronglifts. I like Stronglifts because you
know exactly how much you have to lift each day. There is an equation for
everything. If you have a shitty day and cant lift something you just go back
the next time and try again. There is no way to cheat but at the same time you
are always progressing. If your squat is struggling your bench might be
feeling great. I always had progress to motivate me to go back.

That is the real key to any workout program, consistency. It does not matter
what program you do- Stronglifts, starting strength, 3x5, 10x54, lean body
now, grandma chair exercises, etc- just pick something and stick to it. Go to
the gym when you feel great or when you feel like shit. I love doing squats.
Doing squats 5x5 three times a week sucks no matter how you look at it. What
keeps me going back is the sense of accomplishment you feel after lifting
weights you never though possible. That and the huge/strong muscles part...

1) The health benefits of weight lifting using compound movements are not to
be taken lightly- you may be shocked at what your body becomes after a year of
committed work in the gym.

2) You are wasting your time going to the gym to lift weights if you are: not
sticking to a program & documenting your workout (yes- gym notebook required),
not doing full depth squats, not doing compound lifts.

~~~
eru
I agree.

Something specific: I recommend you look into power cleans.

Power cleans work lots of muscle---like the squat, and they give you fast
strength. They are also hugely exhausting for my cardiovascular system and get
me out of breath even on the low weight warm-ups.

The Stronglifts website has a suggestion on what exercise you can replace with
them. Or just add them. Rippetoe has them every second workout alternating
with deadlifts.

------
tastybites
I've been doing compound barbell lifts (usually 3x5 on dl, squat, bench, bar
row, body pull-up) for almost 6 months now - I've lost a significant amount of
weight and improved my posture, confidence, and appearance.

By combining this with 10x sprints twice a week, it's absolutely amazing how
fast you can drop fat.

I've still got bad habits that set back my progress, but it's a marathon, not
a sprint! Turning into a fit person isn't going to happen overnight, and I
believe the only sustainable way to do it is through slow lifestyle changes.

Just my 2 cents. Go to the gym and start lifting barbells!

------
thomasdavis
Famous words from one of America's best former governors

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drioQ137NhA#t=0m34s>

~~~
DanielH
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0A1CZ2XJXM#t=4m01s>

