
Qanat - baghali
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
======
505
I first encountered this word reading Frank Herbert's Dune, so it was a bit
odd when I encountered it in other literature. Later I realised one of the
great things about Herbert's SF - he uses many real-world cultures as sources
for his world building

~~~
david-given
Hah. I've just reread these, and I have been vaguely intending to look up
'qanat' to see if he made the word up.

Incidentally, I just came back from a holiday in Madeira --- amazing place if
you like mountains; the average altitude of the island is 1300m --- and it's
covered with a network of tiny canals called levadas. These collect trickles
of water from the high summits, which are usually covered in cloud; it doesn't
rain much. So they're kind of the opposite of a qanat. Instead of the water
table being underground, it's way up high.

[https://goo.gl/photos/a7eNGyJtiztiDFA86](https://goo.gl/photos/a7eNGyJtiztiDFA86)

Epicly, a lot of the levadas are in grooves chipped into the side of cliff
faces. You can just about extrapolate the slope in that picture. Unfortunately
in the really scenic bits I was too worried about not falling off to take
photos. Safety railings are things which happen to other people in Madeira...

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shazeline
There was an interesting problem about qanats and excavation cost minimization
in the 2015 ICPC World Finals problem set.

(Problem H)
[https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/problems/icpc2015.pdf](https://icpc.baylor.edu/worldfinals/problems/icpc2015.pdf)

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digestives
The section about using qanats for cooling and ice storage by the Persians
around 400 BCE [1] is fascinating.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhchal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhchal)

~~~
nasir
the last photo in the link was 10 min walk from my house. At that time (20yrs
ago) they'd turned it into a ball pool for kids to play. Currently they've
turned it into a Zoorkhaneh
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlevani_and_zoorkhaneh_ritua...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pahlevani_and_zoorkhaneh_rituals)).
This is nostalgic!

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kranner
Related technology:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher)

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
Those look a lot like Dune's wind traps. Coincidence?

~~~
mehrzad
Considering that Dune is a metaphor for the Middle East and borrows heavily on
Islamic history, maybe not.

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JumpCrisscross
Is there an etymological link between "qanāt" and "canal"?

~~~
mahmud
It's the exact same thing.

For example, Suez Canal is called "Qanat al-Suez" in Arabic.

~~~
colanderman
That doesn't answer the GP's question of whether there's an _etymological_
link. That is, are the two words derived from the same root in some ancient
language? It is a reasonable question since they are phonologically similar,
but from different language families.

~~~
karlb
And just because two words sound similar doesn't mean they have similar roots.
The word for “dog” in the Australian Aboriginal language Mbabaram happens to
be “dog,” not because they have the same root but by coincidence.

[https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UtFqXQosVP0C&pg=PT283&lp...](https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UtFqXQosVP0C&pg=PT283&lpg=PT283&dq=steven+pinker+aboriginal+word+dog&source=bl&ots=6Gb5JBDGOw&sig=RsAyB8VkPzKqVNGmzbJRkIn-
qIE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBzPfQ8-LMAhVBBcAKHSoqAQEQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=steven%20pinker%20aboriginal%20word%20dog&f=false)

~~~
schoen
There's a great list of these at

[https://web.archive.org/web/20070227031854/http://members.ao...](https://web.archive.org/web/20070227031854/http://members.aol.com/yahyam/coincidence.html)

~~~
ptaipale
This one btw doesn't include the one that is strangest to me: that Chinese for
_mom_ or _momma_ is 妈妈 "mama" and _pop_ , _pappa_ is 爸爸 "baba".

~~~
rvense
These are nearly universal AFAIK. I've heard stipulated a link between this
and the fact that these are the first sounds a child will learn.

~~~
otabdeveloper1
> these are the first sounds a child will learn.

Not really, no. 'Gaga' or 'kaka' are just as easy yet aren't universal. The
mystery is not solved. (Could be just areal effects, for example.)

~~~
talideon
Easy for an adult, not so easy for a baby. Bilabial and coronal sounds don't
take much tongue dexterity: you just need to be able to open/close your lips
and leave your tongue in its natural resting position respectively to produce
them. Velar sounds, on the other hand, require you to flex the middle of your
tongue to touch your palate, which is as significantly more difficult sound to
produce.

It's no coincidence that sounds like 'gaga' and 'kaka' tend to be associated
with either more distant relatives or with defecation: the kid's going to be
older when those things get introduced.

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freshyill
As a sometimes Scrabble player, I was familiar with the word and I knew it was
some kind of aqueduct. It's nice to know more. Amazing that ancient people not
only knew to make them, but that they could pull it off. This must have been
no small engineering feat.

~~~
zem
the arabic word for them, FALAJ (and its plural AFLAJ) are also useful
scrabble words (lowish probability, but very useful when you do have them
playable)

~~~
ithinkso
Quite interesting how plural form is an simple anagram of singular form. Is it
common in arabic or just a lucky coincidence?

~~~
mootothemax
I know absolutely nothing about Arabic, and stumbled across this page about
Broken Plurals on wiki:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_plural](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_plural)

Look a few rows into the patterns table, and you start seeing fun
rearrangements for patterns such as CaCaC -> ʼaCCāC, the example being sabab
-> ʼasbāb.

Pretty fascinating stuff!

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justsaysmthng
Such (ancient) technologies plus state-of-the-art computing and communication
systems is prime material for science fiction novels about highly advanced
civilizations.

I think we should strive towards that - use the wisdom of our ancestors to
build zero-energy systems, powered by naturally occurring energy, controlled
and enhanced by computers.

There are lots and lots of things that have already been invented in the past,
we should just listen to our grand grandparents a bit closer.. After all, they
built them for future generations, including us..

~~~
mercer
I'd add nature to that 'list'. There's so much we can - and have - learned
from what sometimes appear to be dumb or primitive processes.

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imdsm
My first thought is: can I make something like this work in Dwarf Fortress?

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nasir
Its funny to see this on HN! I was born and grown up in a warm area in Iran
full of qanats and to me it seems such a natural thing. I caught my first fish
from a qanat!

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known
The Arabic countries led by the Muslims were the most advanced
scientists/engineers in the world, until they let the religious crazies take
over.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_science_and_engine...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_science_and_engineering_in_the_Islamic_world)

~~~
jtlien2
Being overrun first by primitive Mongol hordes that looted their wealth. This
is like saying the Romans were advanced before the Christian crazies took
over.

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baghali
There is also this video about Qanats in Iran:
[https://www.facebook.com/32848633159/videos/1015351116587816...](https://www.facebook.com/32848633159/videos/10153511165878160)

Sorry for the fb link, could not find it in YouTube

~~~
ntumlin
The section of the wikipedia article on qanat's in Iran is huge (3700 words)
in general, and especially compared to the sections about qanats in other
countries. Between that and this video on qanats in Iran; what makes them so
much more important/studied/etc.? Is it just that they were invented there?

~~~
masklinn
> Is it just that they were invented there?

Well probably not _just_ , but Qanats are persian tech and spread from there,
even today the majority of qanats (both historical and extant) is in Iran,
with still-active qanats more than 2000 years old. So it makes sense that this
is where they have the largest cultural presence, and understanding.

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pknerd
You might also want to learn about _Karez_ that is used in Balochistan,
Pakistan.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhpjbi93Jzg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhpjbi93Jzg)

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neito
My first thought (even though it's a bit of an overused meme) is that these
look exactly like the holes in Japanese horror manga master Junji Ito's /The
Enigma of Amigara Fault/ (don't look that up if you're claustrophobic or not
cool with body horror).

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g8oz
Another article:

[http://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/201405/the.water.below....](http://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/201405/the.water.below.htm)

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enno
Even better Scrabble-Word:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qat)

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dpw
I saw lots of these in Morocco, between the mountains and the Sahara.

Well, what I saw were the regularly spaced mounds of earth at the top of the
access shafts.

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sunasra
I am trying to do pilot. Any good I can prefer?

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alismayilov
We have them in Azerbaijan too.

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meapix
ⵜⴰⵔⴳⴰ

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guard-of-terra
I've watched a movie where they even have those in Palermo (Italy).

