
3d-Printed Revolver Can Fire 8 Rounds - prostoalex
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/3d-printed-revolver/
======
mirimir
> It remains to be seen whether this inclusion of detectable metal will be
> enough render the gun legal or whether the authorities will seek to have the
> blueprints for the gun removed from the Internet as it did with Wilson’s
> Liberator gun when it debuted in 2013.

That is silly. Getting stuff "removed from the Internet" is entirely
nontrivial. But they can "seek" as much as they like, I suppose ;)

~~~
hga
Sort of. The author is ignorant, confounding the silly "no plastic guns!" law
with ITAR
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Traffic_in_Arms_Regulations))
controls on "exporting" arms information, which is being played out in the
courts and the State Department.

So, yeah, once it's released that's it for "removing it from the Internet",
but that's unrelated to State forcing the author to remove his official copies
on the net unless and until the above is resolved.

------
CapitalistCartr
A lot of work is being put into such guns, but the technology applies to
everything. I wonder what happens when functional designs for many things are
available online, and anyone with a decent printer can make one for
themselves. It doesn't need to be great, just useful enough.

A gun is a fairly complex device to make. If one can make that, most other
basic devices become practical. A vacuum cleaner with hundreds of people
contributing patches to the design, or forking it . . . How long before the
design can compete with the better commercial designs. The gun crowd is doing
it first, but hardly last.

~~~
DSMan195276
Guns like this one are actually stupid simple - The complexity and actual
power come from the gun powder contained in the bullet. To fire the bullet you
just have to hit the back of the casing in the right way with enough force.
All the gun like this one needs is some type of firing pin to strike the
casing of the bullet - And reading the article it seems that part isn't
actually 3D printed. A revolver is slightly more complicated then a single
shot, but really it's just a single-shot with multiple 'barrel inserts', in a
way.

A vacuum cleaner design is unlikely to be a thing within the foreseeable
future - The complexity is actually much higher then the gun here because you
need a motor, which probably can't be 3D printed and wouldn't be as easy for
someone to get a hold of.

~~~
avn2109
>> "...gun powder contained in the bullet..."

Don't mean to be a pedant, but this bothers firearms people to no end, and
we're on a technical site. A "bullet" is just a projectile - a dumb chunk of
material. The "cartridge" contains the bullet, propellant (likely gunpowder in
this context), and some other stuff.

So the gunpowder is emphatically not contained in the bullet; rather, both the
bullet and the gunpowder are contained in another thing, called the cartridge.
[0]

[0] [http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun-culture/9-misused-gun-
terms/](http://www.gunsandammo.com/gun-culture/9-misused-gun-terms/)

~~~
mturmon
My impression is that this pedantry -- see also terminology disputes about
rifles, assault rifles, long guns, magazines, clips, etc. -- is often gun
enthusiasts finding a pretext for mocking anyone outside the group who
expresses an opinion.

In many cases, as in this one, the meaning was perfectly clear and raising the
terminology issue is just a distraction.

~~~
olympus
This issue is easy to blow off as "you know what I mean" but it's an important
signal that someone has formed an opinion without being fully educated on the
topic.

Climate scientists would prefer to debate global warming with people who have
actually read a few papers and know the actual implications of global warming
(as opposed to uneducated people on either side of the argument that say that
it either doesn't matter or that it will be the end of humanity).

Doctors would prefer to debate vaccinations with people who have read up and
learned that the chance of a negative reaction to a vaccine is very tiny
compared to the chance of people dying from a disease in an unvaccinated
society (see polio) as opposed to listening to people who swear that their
child got paralyzed because of a flu shot (maybe they did, but they don't make
a convincing argument).

And gun owners would prefer to debate gun control with people who actually
understand guns as opposed to people who have only seen their children firing
900 rounds/min death machines in video games.

Using the proper terminology is an easy way to say, "I've done enough homework
to understand how guns work in a general sense and have at least considered
that I should know about something before I make a decision on it."

~~~
lmm
Do you really need to know anything about guns to be able to figure out good
policy? It's a device that you can point at things and make them die; if the
internals were magic pixie dust would that make any difference to how we would
want to regulate them?

~~~
hga
From [https://popehat.com/2015/12/07/talking-productively-about-
gu...](https://popehat.com/2015/12/07/talking-productively-about-guns/)

 _Me: I don 't want to take away dog owners' rights. But we need to do
something about Rottweilers.

You: So what do you propose?

Me: I just think that there should be some sort of training or restrictions on
owning an attack dog.

You: Wait. What's an "attack dog?"

Me: You know what I mean. Like military dogs.

You: Huh? Rottweilers aren't military dogs. In fact "military dogs" isn't a
thing. You mean like German Shepherds?

Me: Don't be ridiculous. Nobody's trying to take away your German Shepherds.
But civilians shouldn't own fighting dogs.

You: I have no idea what dogs you're talking about now.

Me: You're being both picky and obtuse. You know I mean hounds.

You: What the fuck.

Me: OK, maybe not actually ::air quotes:: hounds ::air quotes::. Maybe I have
the terminology wrong. I'm not obsessed with vicious dogs like you. But we can
identify kinds of dogs that civilians just don't need to own.

You: Can we?_

Unless your agenda is compete and total confiscation, unless you want to be
routinely dismissed by those who actually know something about the target,
you'd best learn the basics, the sort of thing any grade school child who's a
member of the US gun culture routinely picks up.

Come to think of it, this actually equals a "my mother and sister know more
than you!" sort of thing, and they were never a fraction as serious about it
as my father and the male siblings.

~~~
lmm
Yeah, I was thinking of that when I wrote it. Where I live that "complete and
total confiscation" has already happened (ish - a few farmers have shotguns, a
few people shoot as an athletics-type thing), and thus we have hardly any gun
crime. The idea that the "productive" position necessarily means some specific
divide rather than a general ban looks really weird from over here.

~~~
hga
Interesting that we came to the same framing of the discussion.

Then again, someone who likes and respects Gundam SEED can't be all bad ^_^.

~~~
ectoplasm
I also agree that you have a point about the arbitrary distinction. Presumably
you agree that accidental / criminal / insane / unnecessary shootings are a
problem. What do you propose as a solution?

The four things I can think of are:

1) tighter registration and controls, GPS tracking

2) better training and education for gun owners, mandatory, free

3) arming more citizens so they can take out mass shooters

4) better training in non-lethal methods for police

~~~
hga
First you really need to go back to the issue of bad will on the gun control
side, I mean, when both Obama and Hillary publicly call for outright
confiscations ("Australian style gun 'buy-backs'") that shouldn't be open to
question.

Then perhaps a return to the issue of dog control. More specifically:

In practice, registration accomplishes nothing good.

 _What_ controls?

GPS tracking ... _how_??? Especially for the 350+ million legacy guns in our
hands? And what would it accomplish? At most it would snare criminals stupid
enough to legally buy guns before they have a disqualifying record, wouldn't
address the other problems.

2) Mandatory is non-negotiable given the bad will, unless you make it a
required middle or high school thing for everybody. As for free, the other
side's vapors about Eddie Eagle, shutting down of high school rifle ranges
(even in Arlington, Virginia, _home of the US military!_ ), and so on suggests
that's non-negotiable on their side. But I most certainly support it, did my
part of it in JROTC (the members of the rifle team helped the teachers run the
winter safety and marksmanship unit).

3) Now you're on to something. But it's not going to happen in 5 of the 15
most populated states (California, New York, New Jersey. Massachusetts and
Maryland), and we think the bigger problem is the proliferation of the
Orwellian named "gun free zones". With the exception of the shooting of the
Arizona congresswoman, all the modern ones have happened in such. And of
course the likely stoppings of mass shootings by armed citizens have by
definition happened outside these zones.

4) Really doesn't exist. At least if you're talking guns or edged weapons, I
would not ask any police officer to use anything less than lethal force from a
gun once combat begins. Google Tueller Drill for some sobering videos.

Perhaps better would be real and much more certain sanctions for truly abusive
police; going back to the Tueller Drill, in what circumstance is in necessary
to shoot a man _in a wheelchair_ if you think he might have an edged weapon?
([http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bf5_1348711197&comments=1](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bf5_1348711197&comments=1))
If it was just incompetence in allowing yourself to get cornered as the police
allege, that should be worth condign including being expelled from ever having
a job in law enforcement. Whereas these police officers should all have been
publicly executed:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting)
including every member of the coverup.

But in the current BlackLivesMatter environment which lumps murderous thugs
like Michael Brown together with virtuous tax evaders like Eric Garner, I
don't see that happening.

Echoing the Eric Garner case, I've been told by police officers that _anytime_
things go hand to hand a tragic outcome is very possible. In fact, we don't
talk about " _non_ -lethal" methods _at all_ , just "less-lethal".

~~~
15155
> GPS tracking ... how?

Anyone suggesting "GPS tracking" with any degree of seriousness doesn't
demonstrate the ability to form rational thought: discussion should not
continue.

> Mandatory ... free

Anything less than free is _exactly_ a poll tax. This is also a great way to
backdoor a registry of individuals, since, you generally need to track which
people have completed the feel-good training.

~~~
ectoplasm
"If you're serious you cannot reason" is such a great projection.

------
Wingman4l7
I wonder if he took his grooved cylinder design from the Cobray Pocket Pal[1]
or the earlier Mauser C78 “Zig Zag” revolver[2].

He's definitely wrong about it being the "first functional 3D-printed
repeating firearm that has been printed using a consumer 3D printer", though.
In May 2014, a Japanese man made a pepperbox revolver[3], and an even earlier
metal-lined-barrel pepperbox revolver was built in September 2013 [4].

[1]:
[http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/gunsfs/cobray.html](http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/gunsfs/cobray.html)
[2]: [http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/11/jeremy-s/history-
ma...](http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/11/jeremy-s/history-mauser-told-
pistols/) [3]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zig_zag_revolver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zig_zag_revolver)
[4]:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprringer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprringer)

------
paulddraper
Plastic guns get the attention, but it's not to hard to make (much better)
metal guns at home.

Milling the lower receiver is a popular way to make AR-15s, etc.

Of course, that requires equipment which is several times more expensive than
a 3D printer (over $1k). But if you really want to make your own firearm, it's
well worth it.

~~~
nyolfen
it can actually be done quite cheaply now:
[http://shop.ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-
gunner](http://shop.ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner)

~~~
hga
Nope, that just finishes an "80%" receiver, to which you then attach various
finished parts. Note also that AR-15 pattern rifles don't seriously stress
lower receivers in firing, people have cobbled together working ones out of
plastic, scrap aluminum, etc.

If you want to efficiently make one out of plain metal, you'd want at minimum
a milling machine and lathe, _and the knowledge of how to use them_. A furnace
for heat treating would also be handy, and making a good long barrel requires
from what I've read more specialized machinery.

~~~
paulddraper
Right. Nobody (or mostly nobody) makes their whole gun from scratch.

The idea is that the gun parts can be obtained with fairly ordinary efforts,
just as plastic for a 3D printer can be obtained with fairly ordinary efforts.

(Naturally, there is a big cost difference between these two.)

------
Rhapso
I think I would mistake it for a modded nerf gun on first sight. That gun
looks almost dangerously close to a Nerf Maverick.

------
randyrand
I like the idea of printing a gun. But really we should be teaching people how
to machine them from steel.

~~~
koenigdavidmj
This is more of a First Amendment exercise, similar to the publishing of the
PGP source code in a book to export it (otherwise classified as a munition)
outside of the US. Basically, we all know that human-readable instructions on
manufacturing a firearm are protected under 1A. The people involved in this
project are trying to see if the same is true where the instructions are
machine-readable. And if you get a usable firearm out of it, that's cool too.

~~~
eplanit
It involves both the First and Second Amendments, which makes it very, very
interesting indeed.

~~~
hga
Actually, the State Department is in the process of trying to ban "human-
readable instructions on manufacturing a firearm" and the like if they're on
the Internet, so we're already there.

~~~
15155
It's funny how quickly a certain political side will justify infringing the
First to infringe the Second.

We've come a long way from "I don't agree with what you're saying, but I'll
die for your right to say it," apparently.

------
paulddraper
Adding "detectable metal" is pretty ridiculous.

Maybe they should just ask people if they're packing.

~~~
maxerickson
The law is about preventing mass manufacture of undetectable firearms, I don't
think that necessarily points to magical thinking about people always
following it.

~~~
paulddraper
Yeah, I know.

But if you wanted to mass manufacture something, I doubt it would be plastic
guns.

The only point to plastic guns is that you can do it yourself without too much
hassle.

------
awqrre
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10630241](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10630241)

------
gravypod
If you are interested in this, take a look at this youtube channel:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjrnAktxAh14I7JvQ27ow7g/vid...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjrnAktxAh14I7JvQ27ow7g/videos)

This guy does some great extremely "scientifical" videos, as MattV2099 has
would put.

------
viraptor
The application he uses is interesting. Does anyone know what it is? It looks
like it simulates parts being held in place, turning around axes, pull-to-
rotate transfer from the trigger to the chamber, and fun other things.

~~~
Asbostos
You can also do that with SolidWorks. Sadly this kind of kinematics/CAD
software is hugely expensive and still too complex and narrow-market for open
source to offer any good alternatives to :(

~~~
swimfar
Actually, Autodesk has a version that is free for hobbyists. I don't think the
interface is quite as intuitive as Solidworks. But for a free CAD software,
it's far beyond any other options. They even include simple stress analysis
tools (FEA). I've been using it on my personal computer for a little while for
personal projects.

[http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview](http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview)

------
paulddraper
What's this expected firing lifetime?

I wouldn't think it to be very much, but I'm curious.

~~~
logfromblammo
It looks like there are at least 11 plastic parts. I'm completely unqualified
to even make these guesses, but as a " _Just Some Guy on the Internet_ ", I
will anyway.

    
    
      part   uses until failure?  possible failure mode?
      --------------------------------------------------
      cylinder body         10^1  melting/fouling in barrel holes
      upper frame           10^3  cracking/melting around exit hole
      firing pin retainer   10^3  misalignment of firing pin
      cylinder axle         10^3  shearing fracture in axle 
      trigger               10^4  elastic band breaks, cylinder rotation arm breaks off
      firing pin carriage   10^4  elastic band breaks, sear-catching arm breaks off
      trigger sear          ?     elastic band breaks, rounded-off pawl
      cylinder ring         ?     cracking, wear on rotation teeth
      lower frame           ?     crud accumulates inside
      frame assembly pin(s) ?     pin retainers break off
      trigger assembly pin  ?     shearing fracture
    

I'm not sure about the frame parts, as the article had no disassembled detail
pics. The cylinder body has metal tubes inserted as barrel reinforcement.
Presumably, those could be drilled out and replaced, if necessary, rather than
recycling the whole thing down to filament and re-manufacturing the part on
the printer.

------
DGAP
This is another example of why gun control, particularly in the U.S., is an
increasingly silly argument to make.

~~~
rodgerd
Yes, those of us living in gun-controlled hellholes where we don't wonder if
our kids' school will be the 20th shot up this year, or where gun nuts with
AR-15 can legally show up to intimidate us at our mosques, surely crave the
freedom of America's gun culture.

~~~
douche
Statistically, you're more likely to get hit by lightning than have your
child's school shot up.

Irrational fear of firearms seems to be overwhelmingly centered in those that
haven't used them, and don't understand them. It's just a chunk of metal, wood
and polymer.

~~~
hughperkins
72 people are killed by firearms each day in USA. So, if you have 500 Facebook
friends from America, you can expect just over 4 of them to be killed by
firearms during your lifetime.

~~~
paulddraper
How many were saved by civilian-owned firearms?

The problem is, we don't really know. Even with the reporting bias, there more
reported legal defensive uses of guns than injuries by gun violence. But how
many uses actually saved a life? Hard to tell.

~~~
hga
By definition you can't really know. But the reported number of uses are huge,
1 million/year some years ago, based on a survey taken by a gun grabbing
outfit that didn't count multiple times per year for respondants. 2.5
million/year nowadays is the best effort estimate.

Counterwise, just like in self-defense, guns are used in crimes a whole lot of
times without them being fired, or hitting someone if fired, or killing if so.

And that's not even counting things like the burglar who carries one just in
case, but never sees another human during the crime, although I suppose an
estimate of that could be made. Which in principle is just like my carrying
concealed almost every time I walk outside my home, just in case, although my
odds are _much_ lower.

~~~
paulddraper
If a gun (or other weapon), is possessed, that makes it a violent crime, e.g.
aggravated robbery.

So you can get some handle on gun use (even when not fired) in crimes.

~~~
hga
That we already have, although you really need to look at the surveys as well
as the FBI's Uniform Crime report, since there's a _lot_ of falsification in
various localities to lower the severity of reported crimes to make it look
like the police are being effective.

I'm just wondering about putting together statistics on the number of
uninterrupted burglaries and what burglars say about how often they're armed.
I know an number avoid it to avoid the sentencing enhancements if they're
caught in the act, and that from all the ones that go really bad, plenty carry
weapons with them.

