
Hoffice: work at someone's home - eloycoto
http://hoffice.nu/en/
======
mbrock
Regarding this:

"Collect all people in a circle; you might want to start with a moment of
mindfulness (try e.g. the app Insight Timer and chose one of the shorter
guided meditations)."

I meditate and even use that specific app, though only as a timer... and I
still would never impose a guided meditation on visitors to my home who are
there to work.

It borders on religious proselytizing.

"A good one to start a Hoffice day is e.g. 'Being Infinite'."

I don't know anything about the content of that, but I have a hard time seeing
how it would be appropriate for a secular, professional gettogether of
strangers from different backgrounds.

If I went to a Hoffice thing and the host put on a guided meditation about
"being infinite," I would maybe join because sitting quietly for a while is
nice... but I wouldn't come back. If I want to meditate on infinity, I'll go
to a temple, or sit on my bench at home, thank you.

~~~
lectrick
Meditation is as secular as informally promoting Apple Macbooks. There's
plenty of science to back up the advantages of meditation, which you are free
to Google. It is no longer religious hokum.

~~~
mbrock
Well, I'm confident you could find science that demonstrates positive
physiological effects of prayer, too.

Sitting quietly and relaxing or focusing the mind is nice, which is why I do
sitting meditation frequently. I just don't want to do it in an unrelated
group setting, along with a dharma talk that I can almost guarantee ventures
into some kind of metaphysical or spiritual territory.

Probably the "Hoffice" thing just isn't my cup of tea. The suggested break
activities also include giving each other massages, doing "goofy" workouts,
and some eye contact exercise that seems kind of creepy.

~~~
lectrick
> Well, I'm confident you could find science that demonstrates positive
> physiological effects of prayer, too.

No. No, you cannot. At least, I've never heard of any. Stop begging the
question.

> The suggested break activities also include giving each other massages,
> doing "goofy" workouts, and some eye contact exercise that seems kind of
> creepy.

I would agree that those are a little weird.

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austinjp
Great idea, good luck with it.

It's very similar to something I was toying with last year, but didn't get
beyond the drawing board. The items that stopped me:

1\. Cash-flow. I just couldn't make the numbers work. It didn't add up to a
profitable business, and I didn't have the cash to plow into it on a whim --
nor did I want debt, or to go looking for an investor. Maybe your financial
considerations were less stringent than mine. I had time, and no cash, so I
was prepared to invest hard work... but like I say, I couldn't get the figures
to work.

2\. Security. This was a real issue -- I didn't get beyond the drawing-board
though, perhaps in the Real World people are more trusting than I thought. How
could I guarantee that my "guests" wouldn't wander into an unlocked "host"
area and steal items? I couldn't. If I put safe-guards in place, I'd lose
market appeal: my "guests" wouldn't want to give me strong guarantees of their
honesty (Photocopies of passports? Large cash deposits? Nope, that would scare
off customers, and give me further problems regarding data security etc.) And
the "hosts" would always balk at my inability to provide a guarantee that
nothing would get stolen.

The corollary of security is insurance. Do Hoffice or your "hosts" need any
sort of professional indemnity insurance? If someone trips on a loose carpet
and breaks an ankle, they may sue -- but who? And how would that pan out?

To be frank, item 2 was what really put my idea on ice. I think item 1 could
be fiddled, particularly if a project such as Hoffice is slow-burn, low-
income, and highly-automated (so you don't need to tend it manually).

How did you deal with these issues, in particular the security/insurance
aspects? Genuinely interested.

~~~
roel_v
This seems to be more a hobby project. There is no money being asked for
working somewhere, and from what I can tell they don't deal with 'what happens
with bad guests' at all. It's more like couchsurfing.org or Craigslist - 'hey
there are all these people who want to meet for some reason or another, we are
just a messaging service, good luck afterwards'. Which is fine for some
purposes of course, not dismissing the idea.

~~~
andreasfmwolf
Yes, it's totally based on gift principles. No money involved. Hoffices are
right now organised over facebook groups/pages, where everyone can
propose/host an event.

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josephpmay
I imagine this may be illegal many places from a zoning perspective. At least
in the US, most houses are in neighborhoods that are zoned strictly
residential. There are usually exceptions for working from home, but I doubt
those exceptions apply to a bunch of other people working in your home.

~~~
ccozan
I don't think zoning applies to working from home. Is not like you open a
front-door shop or some garage. Plus there is no money involved, there is
nothing commercial.

~~~
roel_v
"I don't think zoning applies to working from home."

Yes it does, and _certainly_ when you let others into your house like these
people are doing. And just as well - I wouldn't want the parking hassles of
several additional cars if one my neighbors did something like this (well
theoretically, because where I live right now I wouldn't have such issues -
just saying that there are good reasons for zoning regulations about things
like this).

~~~
ccozan
Ok you are right [0]. The only thing which might apply would be cars parked.

[0]
[http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/38884](http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/38884)

------
DanBC
This is a great idea. It doesn't seem to mention tax or insurance - maybe I
missed that - which are, unfortunately, pretty important.

~~~
ccozan
I haven't notice on the website anything money related. How is this working,
do the guests tip me at the end of the day? It is just for fun?

Neat idea indeed, I have lots of places at my home, and sometimes I wish for a
"colleague" , when I am working from there.

~~~
DanBC
In the UK: If I work from my home I need to consider the tax and insurance
implications.

I need to do the same when I invite other people to work from my home, even if
no money changes hands.

Domestic insurance tends not to include much in the way of public liability
insurance. Since you're inviting people into your home it might be something
to look at.

[http://www.confused.com/home-insurance/guides/home-
insurance...](http://www.confused.com/home-insurance/guides/home-insurance-
for-home-based-workers)

[http://www.intouchaccounting.com/resources/guides/working-
fr...](http://www.intouchaccounting.com/resources/guides/working-from-home/)

[http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim47825.htm](http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim47825.htm)

~~~
ccozan
This regulations deal with working from home for the home owner( or similar).
Yes you can deduct some costs, because this benefit your company/work/etc.

But if I am inviting you in my house, put a table at disposal, wifi, meals,
etc, unless you pay for this, there is no legal implication. Not even
insurance.

That's why I was asking how much it costs. From the website it seems like a
hobby and not a real business, like hosting people in house to work from there
and be paid for this.

~~~
DanBC
> But if I am inviting you in my house, put a table at disposal, wifi, meals,
> etc, unless you pay for this, there is no legal implication. Not even
> insurance.

There's definitely insurance complications! You're inviting people into your
home. That means you're now liable for their health and safety even though
you're not charging them. If they trip and injure themselves they claim
against you.

About tax: there are also "rates" (In England these are called "Council Tax")
which are affected by home offices: [https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-
out-your-council-tax](https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-out-your-council-
tax)

I'm not saying that taxes are definitely different. I'm saying there's a
strong possibility and it's surprising the hoffice website doesn't seem to
mention it.

~~~
ccozan
This must be some UK quirk, I haven't heard of anything similar anywhere in
the world. At least in Germany you ( not me!) better have a
"Haftpflichtversicherung" if you come to my house, in case you break
something. So is the other way around.

~~~
austinjp
This is definitely not a UK quirk.

[http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-...](http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-
and-expertise/specialist-sectors/professional-indemnity/)

There is a debate here about whether or not Hoffice counts as a business, and
whether or not a Hoffice host would have to pay tax. To my mind, these are
moot points:

1\. It will _look_ like a business, so a tax inspection is a possibility, no
matter how remote.

2\. Hoffice and hoffice hosts need to understand the legal situation if a
guest decides to sue.

You could probably be a Hoffice host for years and never have a single
problem. Or you could be the unlucky one, and encounter these issues.

------
lifeisstillgood
It really seems to be genuine. I'm amazed.

I suspect the tax and insurance situation will be complicated, added to which
I'm not sure I want a bunch of local weirdos coming round my place. The social
pressure to accept someone you don't like is going to be large - it's hard to
say to someone whom you can probably bear in a social setting, no I could not
stand 8 hours of your personality. Then it's easier to shut the group down
than to have that conversation

However I sort-of like the "state your days goals" thing - it is an attempt to
be inclusive. My own experience is add a non judgemental / "these things take
longer" but at the end - in a normal team structure I find daily reporting is
counter productive because most worthwhile things take more than a day, and
either folks get disheartened because they don't have something to say, get
trapped by saying things are going better or further than they have, or simply
don't try the good stuff and stick to smaller chunks.

Personal bugbear there

------
kraftman
Why is the guy on the right's laptop on fire?

~~~
edem
It is an easter egg.

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reitanqild
Personally I'm a bit more introvert and already in an open-floor-plan office
about 100 minutes from home and sometimes look for a quiet room somewhere
(think Airbnb but for work).

Have searched the net and while I found some they were significantly more
expensive than Airbnb to the point where I could just as well rent a place on
Airbnb just for a long days work.

I hope one day we can get a quiter version of this or an option in Airbnb to
post and search for "quiet desks, no breakfast neeeded".

~~~
DanielRibeiro
You mean, like Airbrb?[1]

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0MmNM0a_RU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0MmNM0a_RU)

------
daxfohl
I just moved out of a retirement home that had a communal catered dining area.
(Retirement home opened up to non-retirees a while back). (Had to move because
family is growing too large for 900 sq ft). I actually loved that living
situation other than the space constraints.

I'd far prefer co-living in a place like that, especially if it had integrated
daycare and larger living/working spaces, rather than just co-working at
someone's house. Throw in a person that runs errands like picking up groceries
and I'm sold.

I don't know if something like that could ever take off in the US because
everyone wants a big house and their own yard and privacy and driving
everywhere. But it also seems like the work-from-home crowd is also seeking
more simplicity, how nice it would be just to walk your kids down the hallway,
not worry about food so much, so, maybe.

I think I read Denmark has places like this, and it's also rated the
"happiest" nation for whatever that's worth.

~~~
andreasfmwolf
Some people take the Hoffice structure (speaking out working goals at the
start of the day, 45-15min pomodoro technique, fun 15min break activities) and
apply it to a normal co-working or co-living space. The concept is open source
and everyone is free to play with it :)

------
Dorian-Marie
There is something similar in Berlin: [http://www.meetup.com/Social-Pomodoro-
Berlin/](http://www.meetup.com/Social-Pomodoro-Berlin/) (Inspired by Hoffice)

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egeozcan
I'm moving near Frankfurt and I'll be fully working from home for the first
time in my life. I was actually searching for a coworking space, this looks
like a great alternative. The reason I'm looking for a coworking space is the
social aspect anyway and this probably would be better in that regard. I'm
looking forward to try.

~~~
andreasfmwolf
Try to join here :)
[https://www.facebook.com/groups/hofficefrankfurt/](https://www.facebook.com/groups/hofficefrankfurt/)

If there is no events going on right now, you might want to host one at your
own home?!

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Svenstaro
Now how can I actually participate in a Hoffice? There is one in my city but
the site only gives me a Facebook login wall.

~~~
radoslawc
Exactly this was first "head scratching" moment for me. This looked as great
idea at first, but as it was mentioned in other posts what about insurance,
security, tax/zoning stuff. Not to mention this whole meditation thing, that
might be great idea for some people, but I would just feel awkward. My idea
was that this will create space to exchange ideas and work together maybe on
same problems not Buddhist temple.

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instakill
Why is that guy's mac on fire?

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perakojotgenije
I don't understand the point of this. If you have a place to live then why
would you go to someone else's home to work when you can do the same at your
own place?

~~~
DanBC
Some people enjoy the company of other people, but dislike their local coffee
shops.

Or people may feel a change of environment is important to them to help them
switch into work-mode.

