

Verizon is Selling Your Personal Data - morewillie
https://alpha.app.net/bryanjclark/post/843872
I suggest opting out.
======
dude_abides
Thanks for the PSA.

While I understand why these things tend to be opt-out by default, I'm
surprised there was no email from Verizon updating users about these new
settings with a link to opt-out if they wanted to.

I used to think that the telecom industry is a lot more regulated than social
network companies like Facebook, but I guess that's not really true!

~~~
kruffin
I received an email a while back from them basically saying they were going to
start taking privileges with my data if I didn't go to a page and opt-out. I
don't remember the text, but that was the gist.

[Edit] Did some digging and the email subject was: Important Update Regarding
Your Privacy

It has various sections on what will be used and how with a call to action at
the bottom listing your options.

Opening text: Why am I getting this notice?

Your privacy is an important priority at Verizon Wireless. Our Privacy Policy
(available at www.vzw.com/myprivacy) informs you about information we collect
and how we use it. Today we want to tell you about some important updates
relating to two new uses of information. Verizon Wireless will begin using the
information described below for (1) certain business and marketing reports and
(2) making mobile ads you see more relevant. If you do not want us to use this
information for these purposes, you can let us know by using one of the
options described in the "Your Choices" section of this notice. This
supplements our Privacy Policy.

Your choices section:

If you do not want us to use your information for any of the purposes
described above, please let us know at any time by:

• Visiting www.vzw.com/myprivacy

Or

• Calling 1-866-211-0874

~~~
draz
I received the same kind of email from AT&T awhile ago. I immediately called
them up, and asked to opt-out. After 30 minutes on the phone, the
representative told me that the "feature" hasn't been rolled out yet, and I
should call back a month later. Guess what? I completely forgot about it. That
was probably the intention all along.... Thanks for the reminder, though!

~~~
mdaniel
I had a similar experience with Clear (wireless) and the binding arbitration
clause in their ToS. When I called to opt out (because one cannot do so
online, of course :-/ ) I was transferred 6 times and in the end the drone
finally gave up and just asked if putting a note in "my file" would be
sufficient. At that point, I think we were equally frustrated with one another
and I settled.

But I can easily imagine some lawyer-type dreamed up such a clause but failed
to tell anyone else in the business about it.

------
chintan
Offtopic: This is the first time I'm seeing a post "on" app.net and not
"about" app.net

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Might be something to do with people usually not linking to tweets unless
they're really notable. And app.net items are effectively just long tweets.

~~~
w1ntermute
> And app.net items are effectively just long tweets.

App.net doesn't have a limit on message length?

~~~
sjs382
256 characters, IIRC

~~~
Evbn
Why? Just to be like twitter, but different, with no comprehension of why the
Twitter limit exists?

~~~
JeremyBanks
Comprehending why the Twitter limit exists should let you comprehend why
there's no point for App.net to follow it.

The service won't actually be used for "micro-blogging" unless users are
constrained by _some_ limit, but 144 is too damn small. Nobody would ever have
picked it if they weren't forced to, and these days they aren't.

What infinitesimal fraction of modern Twitter users in App.net's target market
do you imagine use the service via SMS? The limit a legacy of an irrelevant
use case.

I'd probably have gone a bit higher than 256 myself (disregarding attachment
to powers of two), but it's an improvement.

~~~
graue
I've been using Tent (<https://tent.io>) which also adopted 256 characters,
and I think it's actually quite generous for statuses. Maybe too much; the
nature of microblogging changes when you don't have to be concise. I bet the
sweet spot is probably somewhere in 160-200.

~~~
nikcub
Sticking to 140 would be a good standard for a microblogging standard since it
would allow you to syndicate out to Twitter and you could emulate the API and
automatically have other apps support that character limit.

If you go beyond 140 it is then no longer a microblog post, but rather just an
ordinary blog post.

------
evoxed
Just so everyone knows, AT&T does the same thing. You have 30 days from the
date of your contract before they start passing it out, but I believe you can
opt out of future transactions on the site. Try going to
<http://att.com/ecpnioptout> (if you got a new contract with your iPhone 5, do
it this week!)

Edit: I should say, AT&T _does something similar_. I do not know if it is the
same thing, since their opt-out page makes it sound rather innocuous compared
to the vague language used in the mailed letter. CPNI = Customer Proprietary
Network Information

~~~
jser
AT&T's is much more invasive -- it is across all of their telecom platforms
(DSL, TV, wireless, wifi, etc). They also will log location information for
advertising: <http://www.att.com/gen/privacy-policy?pid=2506>

You can find more information from their AdWorks division:
<http://adworks.att.com/press.html>

If they were to begin network sniffing, they could potentially build powerful
user profiles that would be more valuable than Facebook's data (and truly
"frictionless"). Your passive internet browsing would start influencing the
commercials you see on TV.

------
roryokane
These are the steps to opt out of Verizon “selling your personal data”, as far
as I can tell:

Visit <http://www.vzw.com/myprivacy>. If you are not already signed in to My
Verizon, you will be prompted to sign in – after doing so, return to that
myprivacy page.

Click the link “Manage Location Privacy settings” near the bottom, which
points to <https://locationmanagement.vzw.com/>

You should now be at “Location Management” > “Location Privacy Settings”. I’m
guessing that this is where you actually opt-out. I’m not sure because there’s
nothing for me to do here – I see “There are no services available. A location
service must be downloaded on the handset to be listed here.”.

~~~
trafnar
Exact same for me. I'd like to opt out but I have no idea how from the
instructions provided.

~~~
angelbob
Ditto. But I'm using an iPhone, so maybe the Verizon-provided stuff is just
not there?

------
rkudeshi
A related story: I was recently shopping around for a new ISP. One I
considered was Verizon FiOS. In order to see the prices in my area, I had to
enter my address.

Two weeks later, I got a letter in the mail. Written outside on the envelope
was something like: "We noticed you were checking out our website! Here's a
special offer just for you..."

It's not the same as what OP posted, but it certainly left me creeped out.

~~~
jrockway
Heh, that's why I always fake address details when I'm checking out cable or
DSL options. Of course they're going to use the personal information you enter
for marketing purposes, that's why they ask for specifics like apartment
number and your mobile number that they don't need to determine service
availability.

~~~
joelackner
that's a clever way of sticking it to them, jrock. i feel sorry for my
neighbors already.

~~~
JadeNB
It is possible to enter completely fake information, rather than someone
else's address. (For example, aside from the burden on the post office, I
think entering a street address for an apartment complex without an apartment
number harms no one.)

~~~
jrockway
Though unfortunately the mailman is usually smart enough to route that kind of
mail if the name on it is correct.

Actually, it's quite difficult to fail to send someone a letter. The post
office does try pretty hard to deliver mail.

------
trotsky
given the increasing ubiquity of these kinds of deals and the quixotic whack-
a-mole game they call opt outs, how dumb would it be to cut out the middle men
and just say "hey, for the low price of whatever you're paying now we'll all
just sell you our habits, cookies, weblogs, location data, brand preferences
and shopping habits (via some up front mobile aggregator of said data). It
seems likely that people spend enough collectively tracking and profiling me
that it might pay for a night out a month if we cut out the middle men. And
hell, it might even have an unexpected bonus - the law of the jungle say if it
runs chase it and if it chases you, run. Maybe you'd stop being desired
tracking target in the end :)

~~~
stephengillie
You're expecting the NSA-hats will get bored watching us check into the same
restaurants and movie theaters after months and years? You're more optimistic
than me.

------
kmfrk
What the hell is it with you Americans and your abhorrent carriers?

~~~
switch007
People keep paying them money.

~~~
akdetrick
People keep having few (if any) alternatives for fast, reliable service
providers.

------
rwolf
No requests are sent when I hit the "Save Changes" button. I have a small
amount of confidence that my preferences are going to be picked up.

~~~
mds
It doesn't seem to work in Chrome. Worked for me in Firefox.

------
acheron
"Verizon" and "Verizon Wireless" are separate companies. It looks like this
refers to Verizon Wireless: e.g., if you have Verizon service for phone, FIOS,
or whatever, you are unaffected.

Well, they're probably still selling your personal data, but not in this
specific instance.

~~~
milkshakes
Eh, Kinda. Verizon Communications owns the majority (55%) of Verizon Wireless.

------
wkdown
> EVERYONE is selling your personal data.

FTFY

~~~
bduerst
Not for the lucky Verizon customers who happen to catch this.

------
biturd
Will using https prevent them from doing this? I imagine it would stop data
gathering and referrer gathering but the source URL request they would still
be able to see?

A VPN would be the only option to keeping them completely blind? I can set up
a VPN on an Amazon micro instance for free. The amount of data used should be
nothing or mere pennies per month to Amazon.

The only trouble is keeping a VPN up. I find on an iPhone at least that while
once working, it works reliably, but keeping it working is unreliable. It
seems when you transition from one network to another, one wifi to another,
one cell tower to smother, or from wifi to cell and vice versa, the connection
can often drop.

I wish there was a setting like "auto connect VPN when any data request is
made".

I've tried VPN's from Amazon of my own creation as well as the VPN included
with my GigaNews account.

I'm sure running the VPN on your mobile is great for battery life.

~~~
stfu
I am already looking forward to the upcoming VPN witch hunt. When US provider
are really going through with the six strikes "warning" system [1], VPNs will
become more and more mainstream. It is going to be interesting which kind of
CP/Terrorism yadayada they are going to pull this time.

As a VPN user for closed to ten years nw (yes, I am that paranoid/live in a
tough-on-downloads region) I can honestly say, that its benefits outweigh the
negatives by far. But it takes some time to find a stable VPN service, that
fits to your expectations.

[1] [http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/six-strikes-
inter...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/09/six-strikes-internet-
warning-system-really-truly-coming-to-us-this-year/)

~~~
jmsduran
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always had the understanding that VPN
providers would give you up to the feds in an instant if they came knocking on
their door with a court order for suspected criminal activity.

I'm in the process of looking for a solid VPN provider myself, and this is the
impression I'm getting after reading the terms & conditions for services like
Private Internet Access and VyprVPN.

~~~
Dylan16807
That is why you use a VPN that is incapable of doing so. There is no technical
need for such a service to log anything other than rough usage.

------
overbroad
Maybe opting out is not how to stop this abhorrent practice of selling
personal information. There is much more at stake than sites just selling
email address lists. There is much more detailed information involved.

Perhaps what would work better is flooding these marketers with false
information. This is what hampers email lists. Most the addresses do not work.

As it stands the few (or many) people who fail to "opt-out" (or fail to use
proxies) may make this sort of personal information sales market worthwhile
because the information gathered is detailed and reasonably accurate. It's not
just a list of disposable email addresses. It's higher quality.

------
benburleson
Using Chrome the buttons to save changes were not functioning.

For each section, select the option you want, then in console run chgCPNI();
or chgReports(); or chgAds(); depending on which section you changed.

~~~
FootballMuse
Turning off Ghostery (ironically?) fixed the problem for me.

------
kqr2
Also, check out how long Verizon stores your data:

[http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/09/cellular-
customer-d...](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/09/cellular-customer-
data/)

------
hammock
Where can I buy this data?

------
njloof
Tried to change settings and got an error. Quelle surprise.

------
mcguire
" _Your privacy is an important priority at Verizon Wireless._ "

From the Verizon customer privacy settings page.

------
unfletch
Does anyone know if this applies to iPad-only customers? That's my only
Verizon account, but the opt-out link requires a phone number to log in.
(Ditto for the "forgot user id" form.)

~~~
morganm
I retrieved my iPad phone number as per the other comment and logged into the
website. Their site says my info is being shared and when I try to switch this
it says the settings can not be saved. Calling the 800 number says I am
already opted out.

I tried speaking with a CS agent who had no idea what privacy settings I was
talking about and then said it does not apply to pre-pay customers. I think
she was just trying to get me off the line.

So I'm not sure if this applies to iPad customers or if it is possible to opt
out.

------
knighthacker
wow. At least they gave you the option to opt-out haha :)

~~~
jonah
Except the law and their own wording requires opt-IN:

"...we need your permission to share this information among our affiliates,
agents and parent companies (including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries."

~~~
FireBeyond
Somewhat - to them anyway, permission is "granted" by you choosing not to opt-
out. It's a crazy, muddled-up, mixed up world.

------
cr4zy
Here's the text you see when you log in, if you don't have Verizon. When
trying to opt-out, I get an error.

\-------------------------------------------------------

Your privacy is an important priority at Verizon Wireless. Our Privacy Policy
informs you about information we collect and how we use it. Read our Privacy
Policy.

Location Based Services ("LBS") Privacy Settings A location service is any
service that provides access to location information, such as maps of places
of interest and turn-by-turn directions, on your handset. These services may
require Verizon Wireless to access the location of your handset. For location
services you use that are supported by Verizon Wireless, you can Manage
Location Privacy settings.

Customer Proprietary Network Information Settings As a provider of certain
telecommunications services, Verizon Wireless collects certain information
that is made available to us solely by virtue of our relationship with you,
such as quantity, technical configuration, type, destination, location and
amount of use of the telecommunications services you purchase. This
information and related billing information is known as Customer Proprietary
Network Information (CPNI). The Federal Communications Commission and other
regulators require the Verizon Companies to protect your CPNI.

Verizon Wireless shares information among our affiliates and parent companies
(including Vodafone) and their subsidiaries unless you advise us not to.
Sharing this information allows us to provide you with the latest information
about our products and services and to offer you our latest promotions.

Settings Don't Share My CPNI OK to Share My CPNI

Business & Marketing Reports Verizon Wireless may use mobile usage information
and consumer Information for certain business and marketing reports. Mobile
usage information includes the addresses or information in URLs (such as
search terms) of websites you visit when you use our wireless service, the
location of your device ("Location Information"), and your use of applications
and features. Consumer information includes information about your use of
Verizon products and services (such as data and calling features,device type,
and amount of use) as well as demographic and interest categories provided to
us by other companies (such as gender, age range, sports fan, frequent diner,
or pet owner). We will combine this information in a manner that does not
personally identify you. We will use this information to prepare business and
marketing reports that we may use ourselves or share with others. We may also
share Location Information with other companies in a way that does not
personally identify you. We will allow these companies to produce limited
business and marketing reports. See our Frequently Asked Questions for more
information about these reports.

You have a choice about whether we use your information for these reports.

Settings Don't use my information for aggregate reports OK to use my
information for aggregate reports

------
lockes5hadow
What is really strange to me is the page is different in firefox and chrome (3
options vs 2), the chrome page doesn't work, and if you turn off everything in
firefox, then reload the page in chrome, chrome shows them still all being on.

------
danilocampos
Unrelated, but having had to log in, I'm now reminded of a VZW security issue:

Can someone explain the doubtless backward and sloppy thinking that would
convince Verizon that they should forbid their users from including symbols in
their passwords?

~~~
andrewljohnson
I've taken to flagging all comments like this.

I don't think it even remotely adds to the discussion to pick some usability
issue and harp on it. These kind of comments crop up for every story. Easy way
to score points, not useful, buries better comments.

I think a good rule of thumb is that if you didn't need to read the article to
make a comment, it's not a good comment.

~~~
MichaelApproved
That's exactly what the down-vote is meant for. If you think a comment is off-
topic, down vote the post and perhaps add a comment as to why you think it
deserves to be down-voted.

Flagging is expensive, in that it requires mod (human) attention. It should be
reserved for spam and other egregious posts. Let the mods spend their valuable
time on more important tasks.

~~~
tomrod
Unfortunately, many of us don't have downvote rights yet. If this were the
case, I definitely wouldn't flag unless community standards were flagrantly
violated!

~~~
nitrogen
Don't worry; if you wanted to vote a post down, there's probably someone with
high enough karma who also wants to downvote the same post.

~~~
tomrod
Strangely enough, that's comforting!

------
bicknergseng
So do banks... other telecoms... Facebook... Google... etc.

------
gdi2290
Verizon sent me a letter about this a couple of years ago that's when I told
everyone I knew with Verizon to opt out of it before they implement it

------
monsur
Verizon is not the only one who does this. I've seen the same from AT&T and
Chase. I'm sure the list of companies that do this is very long.

------
bcl
I haven't received an email and when I logged and checked the settings on my
account I was already opted out.

------
guscost
Well that sucks, doesn't it?

------
white_devil
Newsflash: _Everyone who possibly can_ is selling your personal data.

------
Cieplak
I wonder if they are doing the same for their FiOS customers.

------
jawr
Who isn't these days?

------
sempergumbi
I called Verizon and they said this is a phishing scam... Has anyone else
independently verified the original claim with Verizon, other than through
their website/privacy TOS?

~~~
bryanjclark
This isn't a scam - I found that link last night when I was going through my
billing paperwork from Verizon.

------
Evbn
Selling data, or exploiting to sell ads?

Neither Google nor Facebook sell user data, they hold it close and sell ads
against it.

------
lucian303
The question is not what Verizon is doing but what is Verizon _not_ doing? The
answer will be much shorter.

------
drivebyacct2
This is very, very old news.

~~~
blitzcraig
Old news that's still very, very relevant.

I just switched to Verizon from another carrier and didn't know about this. I
much appreciated the post.

