
Fake Online Locksmiths May Be Out to Pick Your Pocket, Too - oli5679
http://nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html?_r=2&referer=http://marginalrevolution.com/
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cooper12
Regarding Google's Mappers, I find it absolutely absurd that the guy
interviewed would spend 10 hours daily and even signing an NDA just to help,
as the article says, "one of the world’s richest companies" for free. And then
instead of acknowledging his stunt they just ban him. If only he'd discovered
freely licenses projects like OpenStreetMap where the data belongs to everyone
and where the community is put first. That's why I can't stand crowdsourcing,
you're essentially doing free labor just to make some company's crappy data
better for yourself. It's a nice bit of social engineering which masks the
true beneficiary of the scheme and hides the actual power structure.

> The company is dominated by software coders, and they want to solve the most
> interesting problems, or create the coolest products.

This remark also rings true for software in general, no one wants to maintain
"legacy" code or do maintenance in lieu of new features. That's why we have so
many rewrites and NIH syndrome. Of course higher-ups incentivize this because
it makes it look like the products are growing and innovating, leading to
cruft like a random program evolving to send email.

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ciamac
He made fake edits that were against the terms of service. Why should Google
tolerate that?

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cooper12
Oh they're well within their rights to do that. However my complaint had to do
with the fact that one of their higher ranked volunteers was trying to point
to an issue with the system after being dismissed and instead of trying to
work with their community and address it, they just ban him instead. To quote
him:

> For me, it was always like I was looking at a five-alarm fire,” he said. “To
> them, it was smoldering.

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furyg3
Apps like HotelTonight and AirBnB also mean that your chances of finding a
last-minute deal on a place to crash are probably better than finding a last-
minute deal on a locksmith. Even better is a friend's couch :)

A friend of mine got scammed like this in the middle of the night, it ended up
costing him somethings like €300. One night I found myself in a similar
situation and just walked into a nice nearby hotel, gave them my story, and
they let me have a unbooked room for a decent rate. After a nice night's
sleep, 15 minutes in the gym sauna, and a good breakfast I was able to go to
my local locksmith who could get my door open for a reasonable rate.

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roel_v
It's gotten to a point where I now prefer contractors (hvac stuff, plumbing,
electricians etc, but also a carpenter and a stained glass restoration guy I
needed a few months ago) who do _not_ have a website; if they've been in
business for 5+ years or so, they are most likely getting enough work from
referrals to not need having to spend money on a website. And those getting
their work from referrals are the ones you want (usually).

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dazc
I've been involved with a contractor who relied exclusively on internet leads
(nobody in their right mind would recommend him) and much of his time was
spent giving quotes for low value work that rarely materialised into an order.

Most people using the internet for sourcing a tradesman, in my experience, are
those looking for the cheapest price or just fantasists and time wasters.

I think most consumers expect a contractor/tradesman to have some kind of web
presence but it really should be just a brochure type site and/or blog. The
best work is almost always going to come from word of mouth referrals.

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Someone1234
I found my doctor, dentist, plumber, roofer, landscaper, and am currently
looking for an electrician online. All through: google and Angie's List.

I immediately excluded anyone who has no website, and will continue to do so.
It just means you don't care about your business, if I have the choice I'll
also exclude people who have no online reviews.

The only time I myself could be described as a "time waster" was with the
landscaper, but in fairness that was because they were completely booked up
until the following season.

The whole thing seems like an age issue, people who grew up with the internet
use the internet to find places and services, people who didn't still open a
Yellow Pages and dial the biggest advert.

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illumin8
I second the Angie's List recommendation. If you go with only people who have
an A rating and many reviews, I've never gotten poor service. Also, when you
think about the hundreds or thousands you could lose with a bad contractor,
the annual fee for access is a drop in the bucket.

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tangram1970
My fiance and I have good and bad experience with Angie's list. The plumber we
hired from Angie's was excellent, but the painter was bad, had to repaint
everything ourselves again. But we had good lock using Nextdoor to find an
excellent painter.

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shiftpgdn
I got hit by this scam a few years ago. My wife called the first number in
google and they said for $50 they could come open my front door. The guy gets
there and says "oh these locks are too complicated I need to drill it out and
it'll be $350". I told him I'd give him $50 cash under the table and he could
tell his boss I told him to go fuck himself. He drilled the lock which spurred
my wonder of how hard it was to actually pick a simple residential lock.

I bought a lockpicking kit, a new lock and learned that even somebody with
little skill and some practice could have picked that lock in 10-15 minutes.
It would seem they drill all locks out regardless of difficulty to eliminate
any required skillset.

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griffinmb
Recently my car battery died on a side-street without much through-traffic. No
one else I know has a car (I live in NYC), so I had to call someone to jump it
for me. It cost $75.

The guy used a portable jump-starter, which I'd never seen before. So I looked
it up when I got home, and bought it on Amazon for ~100 bucks. When my battery
died again, I jumped it myself and I'm now just one jump away from 'saving'
money.

I guess this is a roundabout way of saying all these services (like
locksmiths, car-jumpers, etc) can be avoided with minimal effort and a little
bit of know-how. There is something rewarding about being self-sufficient in
that way.

Sorry if this wasn't completely on point!

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tamana
Coatco sells portable jumpstart batteries for $35, and they will charge your
USB devices during not emergencies too.

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codeulike
Their description of what happens sounds like every emergency locksmith I've
ever dealt with, irrespective of Google. When people call emergency locksmiths
out they are in trouble and often taken advantage of.

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danieltillett
Avoiding all this pain sounds like a great idea for a startup.

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yitchelle
I was going to say uber locksmithing but the uber method for fee calculation
would but their fees way higher. :-)

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bryanrasmussen
uber for locksmithing would basically be having people come over to your house
who happened to have lockpicking kits handy.

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spicerguy
And would have the associated effect of providing a very clear analogue for
the protesting licensed taxi operators.

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erroneousfunk
This happened to me, about 6 years ago, and it was a fairly widely-known
phenomenon then, too. Fortunately, I wasn't on the hook for the bill -- the
only key to my apartment had been ruined by Home Depot while cutting a copy,
during a series of mistakes on their part. They are generally the first
listing you'll find when Googling something like "locksmiths near <your city>"

The only negative part was that, of course, he announced after pretending
(badly) to work on the lock for a bit that the (very standard, relatively low-
security) lock on my door was "too difficult" and he wouldn't be able to cut a
key for it, so he had to drill it out and give me new keys, which I then had
to distribute to my landlord. Other than that, I got in, was reimbursed, so
win for me.

I hired a legitimate lock smith a few years later to create a missing key for
my motorcycle, and the difference between the two was VAST. He had a key-
cutting facility in the back of his van that was better-stocked and had more
tools and machinery than the ones you sometimes find in brick-and-mortar lock
smith shops.

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rcarrigan87
There is also a selection bias when it comes to the lead gen business model.

The best locksmiths or movers don't usually buy leads. They either have enough
word of mouth referrals or have built their own marketing.

Buying leads is typically a very low return on investment decision for
companies not planning on using bait-and-switch tactics.

Case-in-point: if you're going to try and disrupt this market, realize your
acquisition costs are going to be just as high as the scummy lead gen
providers and the high-quality lock smith companies aren't going to want to
pay you.

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josefresco
Word-of-mouth doesn't work if you service an area with visitors/tourists or
those unfamiliar with your brand. Auto lockouts are common in these areas,
less so in areas where the customer lives as they can call a friend/relative
for help.

This requires good, reputable locksmiths to utilize and optimize for Google -
and that's where they are exposed to these competitors and (from my
experience) a cautious Google.

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ck2
Doesn't solve the google spam problem but regardling locksmiths to get into
your car specifically, check your auto insurance.

If you have brand name insurance, they often have an AAA-like option for $10
every six months. Does towing, gas, locksmith, etc.

I know geico has this and probably progressive and others.

For $20 a year it is a no-brainer. You'll use at least one of the services
every couple years so it pays for itself.

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a3n
I used my insurance's towing service. Never again. It's worth having AAA, even
if your insurance includes this "service."

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ck2
Could you explain?

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a3n
I used the insurance twice. I had to wait three hours both times, in Denver.
Both times I had to call back to remind them I was waiting. On one call, the
original company just never sent anyone, and the "service" had to start over
again.

The operator actually chastised me for calling back too son.

My impression was it was a call center somewhere in the country, and they did
the equivalent of looking up a tow for you in the yellow pages/internet.

AAA has always been within the window they said, always professional, always
effective. I've had them out for tows, jump starts, locked out, even had a
battery replaced once by the guy who came out.

The subscription is per person, so if you're riding with someone else and they
don't have AAA, no problem.

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ck2
Thanks for that. My policy also states a reimbursement method (within limits).
I would probably go that route given your experience.

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rcarrigan87
Why Israelis? The moving industry is just as bad, if you look at the DOT's
most wanted movers list it's almost all Israelis.

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Spooky23
You have a tight community that will keep their mouths shut and a steady
pipeline of people coming in looking for work. Great fodder for criminals.

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coldcode
I wonder how much of Google's massive ad revenue is things like this. From a
purely financial point of view, fixing this wouldn't be much of a priority.

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locksmithtx
As a locksmith in i Agree. Before calling an locksmith check all detail about
them, whether they are licensed or not.We are 24 hours licensed locksmith in
Texas area. [http://carroltton.toprated-locksmith-
service-24hr.com/](http://carroltton.toprated-locksmith-service-24hr.com/)

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thedlade
Pay per call

