
Learning Synths - navidhg
https://learningsynths.ableton.com/
======
bbx
The best resource I've ever seen for learning synthesis is Syntorial:
[https://www.syntorial.com/](https://www.syntorial.com/)

It teaches you step by step all the aspects of a synth engine: oscillators,
wave shapes, amplitude, filters, modulation, unison, FM… But most of all it
trains your ear, which allows you to replicate the sound in your head and
build it from scratch.

~~~
fermentation
That looks really great, but a little pricey. Any recs for someone who isn’t
sure if they want to invest the cash into learning synthesis?

~~~
shadowoflight
Just fyi, Syntorial is currently on sale at VST Buzz for half price (~$65USD):
[https://vstbuzz.com/deals/50-off-syntorial-by-audible-
genius...](https://vstbuzz.com/deals/50-off-syntorial-by-audible-genius/)

~~~
jf
Thanks for the link! Considering that I was about to buy Syntorial at full
price, I'd like to donate $30 to a charity on your behalf. Reply here or email
me with the name of the charity that you'd like the money to go to.

~~~
shadowoflight
Hey! I'm not knowledgeable enough to endorse a specific national charity, so
I'd suggest that you buy some local artist's merch or donate to your
local/regional human or animal shelter!

~~~
jf
Okay! I donated $30 to the SF SPCA. Thanks again for the tip!
[https://www.evernote.com/l/ABLjCal10i5CnYiRvlMhlxj_vGjFWojD2...](https://www.evernote.com/l/ABLjCal10i5CnYiRvlMhlxj_vGjFWojD2Qg)

~~~
shadowoflight
That’s a fantastic choice! Glad I could help you save a few (dozen) bucks.

------
jdietrich
If you have an interest in synths, you owe it to yourself to read _Synth
Secrets_ by Gordon Reid. Published in 63 parts in _Sound on Sound_ magazine,
it remains the definitive tutorial on synth programming.

[https://www.soundonsound.com/search/articles/%22Synth%20Secr...](https://www.soundonsound.com/search/articles/%22Synth%20Secrets%22?solrsort=ds_created%20asc&f%5B0%5D=im_field_subject%3A8106)

~~~
H1Supreme
These are pretty technical articles, but absolutely amazing in terms of
content. I remember reading them nearly 20 years ago when I first got into
using synths.

------
NikolaNovak
Question: All of "learn synths" tutorials I've managed to dig up are really
"sound creation" tutorials.

I have not found a good tutorial or paid online class on how to _play_ synths.
Is taking a traditional piano course the best way to do so? Observationally,
the play style seems quite different, even if some basics are the same. Most
practically, I see synths typically played with right hand, left hand is on
the modulator or knobs.

Basically, I'm finding it hard to find resources on how to play and make the
most out of your synth (as opposed to piano), once you have dialed in the
_sound_ you want...

~~~
ben7799
Nothing beats a teacher but there are some problematic things with piano
teachers IME. (I've had 2 over the past 20 years)

\- Piano is super super super biased towards classical music

\- Huge emphasis on reading music and playing it back even if you're not
understanding it

\- Weakness on developing a sense of rhythm and playing by ear

\- Weakness on learning to play with others

\- The weakness on understanding leads to a difficulty in memorization AFAICT

All this stuff gets ironed out in piano lessons I'm sure but it seems to
happen at a pretty late stage that isn't great for an adult beginner. It takes
away some of the fun.

I have never taken classical guitar but in contrast to piano your typical
guitar lessons are near 100% the other way around. Way more emphasis on using
your ears, developing rhythm, playing with others, etc..

The only reason I mention this is a lot of synth music is pop music that has a
lot more in common with guitar centric music.

The ridiculous thing is I haven't taken a piano lesson since 2015, I've been
taking guitar. My sense of rhythm if I sit down at a keyboard/piano is way
better now than when I was playing piano every day and taking classical style
lessons. If I went back to some piano now I expect I would improve
dramatically from where I was in short order.

~~~
NikolaNovak
FWIW (OP here), I've been playing guitar for years (not great, but fun
enough:), have no knowledge of piano, and can have tons of fun with it just
mixing up the basic chord progressions and playing around. I mean, compared to
the guitar - the notes are in order! One after another, in a neat sequence!
What a concept! :-) :-) :-)

So I think we're in agreement - I _feel_ (rightly or wrongly) that I could
take two years of classical piano lessons, and get _no_ closer to what I want
to do with a synth than I am today :-/. Whereas I feel just from playing the
guitar, I can already do, say, 10-15% of what I want to do with a synth, and
want to explore further in _that_ direction...

------
realshowbiz
Possibly unpopular opinion, but IMO to learn a synth it’s best to start with a
simple physical subtractive monosynth.

Software synths are often built to model popular hardware instruments in both
sound and interface. So learning the basic concepts on a “real” subtractive
synth builds a foundation to learn more.

Plus a physical synth is far less distracting than a multitasking device. I
find it much easier to create, experiment and learn when a screen is not
involved.

~~~
louthy
Or go modular. Just be prepared to remortgage your house a year later.
Seriously addictive

[1] [https://imgur.com/a/chegsO5](https://imgur.com/a/chegsO5) (my setup)

~~~
munificent
Non-snarky question: how much music do you _finish_?

Every time I think about getting more into synths, I worry that I'll just end
up endlessly noodling and never actually complete any songs. Years ago, I
bought a copy of Reason and had tons of fun playing with it, but eventually I
realized that after every session, I was rarely any closer to having a
completed work I could share with others.

~~~
bnferguson
This question comes up a lot with synths and especially hardware and Eurorack
gear.

For me not being focused on finishing anything is what got me back into
playing music (and eventually performing live sets).

Previously there was so much pressure to produce end results I couldn't even
get started and lost all joy in the process. At some point I got some hardware
to just play with and never really looked up how to save anything (was a
Drumbrute, Meeblip and I borrowed a Beatstep). Was making odd acid tracks and
silly sketches on my kitchen table every night that I'd lose as soon as I
turned it all off. It was oddly freeing, and really fun.

A year later I was playing out gigs ranging from 20 mins to 3 hours. And one
could even argue that I've still not finished any songs despite hours of
recordings and performance as it's mostly improvisational.

Now I'm happily back in the noodling around and having fun stage again and
loving it (though about to switch gears again).

Anyway - just figured I'd weigh in as there's often a lot of pressure to
finish or record things when just playing around or building weird synths is
in and of itself a really really fun (if expensive) hobby and maybe someone
needs to hear that. :)

(also perfectly fine if your focus is on complete songs, of course)

~~~
munificent
This is useful data, thanks.

I'm going through a sort of mini-midlife crisis right now and one of the
things I'm thinking about is whether I can make music part of my life again. I
used to be in a rock band and it was _tons_ of fun, but I'm in my 40s with
kids so the logistics of rehearsing with other people and playing shows at
night make that unlikely.

Another path I'm considering is making electronic music. That's mostly what I
listen to and I used to tinker with it before I started a band, so I have some
experience with synthesizers, beats, etc. It's much more amenable to my life
style now because I can do it after the kids go to bed. But also, back then, I
had a lot of trouble getting anything done and often ended up feeling
disappointed.

It's not enough for me to just noodle with a synth for a few hours. I want
something I can share with other people, which implies to me that I need to be
able to finish things. So I'm just trying to figure out strategies for that
before I drop money on gear only to have it collect dust.

~~~
brokenmachine
You don't need much money to get started with a MIDI controller and VSTs,
assuming you have a good PC because most people do here on hn.

Even though the hardware people seem like the most outspoken on most forums, I
enjoy doing everything in the box now and my hardware mostly just sits under
its dust covers.

I have an Ableton Push2 and it's an amazing piece of kit, more like an
instrument than a controller. The layout makes much more natural sense to me
than a keyboard, I think because I used to play guitar.

I'm the same in that I would like to have something at the end that I can
share with other people, but the finishing stuff part I haven't quite worked
out.

So far that has required more discipline than I have been able to muster, but
I do feel I'm making progress and my workflow is improving.

~~~
munificent
Yeah, I can definitely _afford_ to sink some money into this. It's more that
I'm wired to hate myself if I spend money on something and don't use it. There
are few things I despise more than feeling like I'm a poseur.

 _> Even though the hardware people seem like the most outspoken on most
forums,_

Good point!

~~~
brokenmachine
I don't like wasting money either.

Of course it's up to you, but if I were you I would just get a controller and
just get started. It's never been easier, cheaper or better. If you want to
save money you could just get something secondhand from ebay.

I am invested in and love Ableton but there are lots of good options out
there.

Like I say, I don't think hardware is necessary these days. It is fun to have
dedicated knobs for everything but if you get a good controller it's much more
flexible overall.

I can put 10 instruments into a single instrument rack on a track in Ableton
and immediately have 8 macro knobs to control whatever I want about all 10
instruments at once.

You can easily do crazy stuff like create mutant instruments that morph
between completely different instruments or samples, and change effect
settings according to how hard you play the notes, or what part of the bar
you're in. The limit is really only your imagination!

Then if you want, you can just duplicate that whole complex track with a
single keypress. It's crazy. You can't do that with hardware!

Getting it to sound musical is the hard part, and that's where hardware shines
- because you're limited in options, you can usually just turn it on and get a
good sound out if it immediately. But IMO that's not a real reason that
hardware is better because of course you could limit yourself to that in
software too.

You sound like you can afford it and have the desire. I would just buy
something and get started. It's heaps of fun, as long as you don't put too
much pressure on yourself!

~~~
munificent
_> if I were you I would just get a controller and just get started._

This is basically my plan. Except that I'm deliberately putting it on hold
until I'm done with the book I'm writing because I really don't have the time
and definitely don't need the distraction.

 _> It's heaps of fun, as long as you don't put too much pressure on
yourself!_

But putting pressure on myself is like my #1 personality trait. :)

------
runarberg
If you like to create sound with software I can’t recommend the Web Audio
API[1] enough. It is a really low level API modeled after subtractive analogue
synths where you create several nodes and connect them together just like you
would do with voltage controlled synths.

When using it to create multiplayer online theremin[2] for fun, I got really
impressed with synthesizers and inspired to learn more about them. That is,
the Web Audio API inspired me to learn physical synthesizers.

Regrettably physical analog synths is an expensive hobby, so the only physical
synth set that I’ve gotten so far is a LittleBits toy synth kit[3] (kind of
like legos of synths), which I also do recommend, as an adult I can have tons
of fun with it and learn and experiment, even though it is meant for kids

1: [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/API/Web_Audio_A...](https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
US/docs/Web/API/Web_Audio_API)

2: [http://theremins.club](http://theremins.club)

3: [https://littlebits.com/products/synth-
kit](https://littlebits.com/products/synth-kit)

------
FigBug
Just don't get into writing synths or effects if you want to make any money.
Kind of like making games, it's flooded with people who do it for the love and
willing to do it for salaries far less than other fields. The stereotypical
musician has no money. There are currently over 3000 synths listed on KVR.
It's tough to do something unique and stand out.

------
robenkleene
I've read tons of books on synthesizers, I've built my own in Max/MSP and
Reaktor (this drum synth for Ableton Live I still maintain
[https://github.com/robenkleene/thwomp](https://github.com/robenkleene/thwomp)).

The best resource I've found for learning synthesis is Welsh's Synthesizer
Cookbook ([https://www.synthesizer-cookbook.com/](https://www.synthesizer-
cookbook.com/)). And it's not even close: A few years ago I went all in on
ebooks, I got rid of everything. I recently went through a bunch of PDFs
trying to find a replacement resource for this book (which isn't available as
an ebook). Let's just say I gave up and now I own a physical copy of exactly
one book.

~~~
dmix
Did you built that with some sort of IDE-ish interface?

Or do you hand-code Max? The .max files look a bit more like configuration
files than code.

First time seeing the Max language:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_(software)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_\(software\))

~~~
robenkleene
Max is a visual programming language[1] (arguably the most popular/relevant
one?). There are some good screenshots of what it looks like here
[https://cycling74.com/products/max/](https://cycling74.com/products/max/) It
requires using the Max app, an IDE-like environment, to use. The `.maxpat`
files are JSON but not meant to be edited by hand (although I do it all the
time).

Reaktor is also a visual programming language. Both cost money, a lot
actually, I think Max and Max for Live (which you need to run plugins in
Ableton and is sold separately) are $600 or so total.

Visual programming languages are especially popular for synthesis, I'm
assuming there's a reason for that, but honestly I've never tried doing this
stuff in another language (most "native" VST-style plugins are written in
C++), so I can't really compare it to that or give a real explanation for if
it's better. But it is simply an environment that brings me joy to work in
(despite its warts), so beyond doing a bit of work in Reaktor, I've never even
looked into other ways of doing these things.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language)

~~~
pault
I think sound design is one of the few domains that really really benefits
from visual programming languages. You really can't work effectively without
1. instant feedback and 2. the ability to quickly alter the signal path. I
know there are live sound textual programming environments, but anything more
complicated than changing individual values is going to break the creative
flow if you have to create new files, modify imports, etc. Doing this by
dragging around nodes and edges in a graph is intuitive enough to allow you to
stay focused on the act of creation instead of the implementation details.
This, and the fact that DSP is fundamentally a data flow problem, make visual
programming environments the ideal UI for advanced sound design.

~~~
trocado
I feel that text is actually more effective, even though I agree there's much
to commend about visual dataflow languages for music. But all the dragging
around boxes and connections can become irksome, not to mention the energy
spent aligning stuff and trying to prevent the (inevitable) dish of spaghetti
that you get above a small level of complexity. Other general advantages of
text: faster editing (leverage the features of the IDE, keyboard vs mouse,
etc.), easier to organize and comment code, generally easier to debug, version
control, and some languages are much more flexible and powerful than anything
graphical. See Supercollider, and its clients using various general purpose
languages, csound, Faust, and many others. Max and PD are great though, with a
nicer learning curve, fantastic projects done with them and a thriving
community of users. Each to his/her own...

------
komali2
Wow weird coincidence, I've just started getting into Ableton and production,
a sort of lifelong goal of mine, and just last night finally started watching
some videos on Wavetable.

I was completely blown away by the infinity x infinity possibilities. Totally
overwhelming! This tutorial is great for helping me understand the concepts,
very fortuitous.

Now if I could actually sit down and make a song instead of just tweaking
knobs on controllers...

~~~
tamasnet
I'm in a similar place as you. Best advice I got was that you learn to make
great tracks by making lots of crappy tracks. Don't sweat it, just keep going,
keep improving. So ignore your ego and just make a damn song already.

~~~
wesleyfsmith
This is so true! I was the exact same when I started with abelton.

Someone told me you have to make 100 crap songs before your first good one.
Best way to get better is to just start trying to make stuff and stop
comparing your work to what you listen to on spotify. You'll improve faster
than you think.

------
jacquesm
This is very impressive. A ton of work went into it with all the interactivity
and the explanation of what makes the sound sound like it does. Very
impressive work and one of those things that really make me like the internet.

By the way, this thread is a goldmine of interesting links.

------
gtani
Over in /r/synthizers, muffwiggler and gearslutz land (there might be other
forums where the pretty hardcore hang out) they usually recommend getting a
knobby synth and Ableton/logic/bitwig/reaper etc on an apple that won't
overheat. So micro/mini brute, DSI mopho w/keys, monologue ($200 used or so),
bass station2, ms2000, the Odyssey and ms20 recreations, there's a bunch.

Recommendations for my 2 favorite books, Snoman's book is great bc it covers
the whole chain of what a EDM needs, samplers, sequencers, drum machines,
DAW...:
[https://old.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/65o4r4/best_r...](https://old.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/65o4r4/best_resources_for_learning_synthesis/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/80bmj3/pickin...](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/80bmj3/picking_up_first_synth_recommendations/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/7g3uv0/best_a...](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/7g3uv0/best_and_most_knobby_digital_or_hybrid_synths/)

------
ablation
Not the first time Ableton tutorial/informational content has been posted on
here, and it's always a delight to see and use.

------
habosa
I am someone who loves music in all its forms (especially live music) but I
have struggled to ever learn to play music. I don't have much natural rhythm,
I have a bad ear, and I wasn't the best student when I took guitar lessons.

Recently I have gotten into synthesizers and electronic instruments in general
and WOW. Suddenly music clicks for me. I think as an engineer there is
something very appealing about deconstructing sounds. And thinking "this is a
sine wave plus {x}" is easier on my mind than "this is an EMajor7 chord and
here is the staff notation".

This is a world where you can spend a lot of money, but there's also really
good cheap gear out there if you look for it. And you can learn something
unique from almost any piece of gear.

While you can do it all in the computer these days (or almost all) I find that
I need physical knobs and controls to unlock my creativity and make this
something I look forward to after a long day of being on the computer coding.

~~~
timc3
While you can get along fine just playing around, if you are still at it after
a couple of years learning music theory is very worth while. Its also
something that someone with engineering skills should be able to pick up.

------
adamnemecek
Check out audiokit [https://audiokit.io](https://audiokit.io) And our free
synth app SynthOne
[https://audiokitpro.com/synth/](https://audiokitpro.com/synth/)

~~~
rhizome
looks cool, but that website is a bottomless pit of "learn more" buttons and
pages of feature lists.

------
maxfurman
This is very impressive! I know the web audio APIs are not new, but this is a
very slick user experience. The way the corners of the box move as you drag
the controls around - _Italian chef finger-kissing gesture_

~~~
human20190310
That drag-box UI does a great job of conveying the often-missed point that
synthesizers can be very expressive instruments.

------
jesuslop
Not directly related, but do you know of recent achievements with a wow factor
in the physical modelling synthesis field [1]? Just as some offline rendered
3d scenes are amazing, It'd be nice to have a pure virtual instrument with its
string and resonance chamber model, inter-string effects, plucking mechanism,
and so on.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_modelling_synthesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_modelling_synthesis)

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Physical modelling peaked in 1993 with the Yamaha VL1 - which was an amazing
synth that crashed right into the uncanny valley between sampling and real
instruments.

PM is a complete nightmare to program - even harder than FM. Which was why the
VL1 was a preset-only machine. The full programmimng system was never made
public.

There are some modern remakes in the box, especially from TAS, but IMO they
don't sound as impressive.

The appeal of analog isn't just the sound, it's the conceptual simplicity.
Ditto for sampling. Almost anyone with an average-ish IQ can understand the
basics.

There are plenty of alternative synthesis techniques, but they're not popular
because most people find they're too much effort for too little reward.

PM, modal, spectral, and straight additive can all make some very wild sounds,
but - ironically - they don't sound like most people's idea of a synthesizer,
so they're used much less often, and usually only by people who are hardcore
sound programming nerds.

~~~
arvinsim
> The appeal of analog isn't just the sound, it's the conceptual simplicity.
> Ditto for sampling. Almost anyone with an average-ish IQ can understand the
> basics.

But software can still the same, right? Albeit with a lot of distractions.

------
djohnston
only tangentially related, but ableton is a personal dream job . anyone have
experiences working there?

------
hoorayimhelping
This is fantastic. Incredibly helpful, and really really cool animations.
Great metaphors and art style.

Love this - if you're reading the comments and on the fence, it's worth going
through if for no other reason than to appreciate how well this is put
together.

Works flawlessly on Firefox on Windows.

------
tekstar
If you want to learn how to program synthesizers, I suggest reading some of
the DSP code by Emilie Gillet (Mutable Instruments)
[https://github.com/pichenettes/eurorack](https://github.com/pichenettes/eurorack)

------
comboy
It's relevant also if you are interested in creating music and not
specifically in synths because it very clearly explains many controls that you
will find in popular music software.

------
dang
A not unrelated thread from 2017:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14299628](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14299628)

------
Kyrio
This looks like a great addition to Ableton's own "Learning Music". Wonder if
it's still written with Elm and Tone.js!

------
dmix
This is just good web design in general. Bravo.

------
Roboprog
Check out Lorentz if you have an iOS device.

It’s a virtual analog synth, similar to something like the Roland Juno 106.

------
tuzemec
I really liked the envelopes part. I had hard time grasping the idea back in
the days.

------
the-rc
Uh, interesting Easter egg in there, Europe's The Final Countdown...

------
person_of_color
Is there something like this but for programmers?

------
luckyorlame
This is awesome! Thanks

------
jarboot
This is delightful.

