
DHS asks Mozilla to take down MafiaaFire add-on - akavlie
http://lockshot.wordpress.com/2011/05/05/homeland-security-request-to-take-down-mafiaafire-add-on/
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larrik
I'm thrilled that Mozilla didn't give in to their demands (yet).

I'm confused as why the HN headline says "MediaaFire" while the linked article
and add-on are "MafiaaFire", though. _UPDATE: It was a mistake and was fixed._

Oh, and it's completely ridiculous that DHS is enforcing IP. I mean, what a
completely inappropriate and wasteful use of that department.

Edit: Did a Google search for "MediaaFire" which brought up nothing relevant.
It DID show this posting, though, which I find to be amazing (It's only
existed for 15 minutes.)

~~~
BrandonM
_> it's completely ridiculous that DHS is enforcing IP_

The Secret Service was created by Lincoln to combat an extremely high rate of
counterfeiting currency[1]. When the Department of Homeland Security was
created, the Secret Service became part of that department.

I'm sure you will be happy to know that the Secret Service also provides
protection for "important" citizens traveling abroad. They also investigate
cases involving child pornography and various types of fraud.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service#Ea...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service#Early_years)

~~~
larrik
Defending currency is NOT anything like defending civil IP. It's not even
covered by the same laws, for starters.

~~~
scott_s
Bureaucracies are grown, not designed.

~~~
getsat
They also rarely _stop_ growing.

"Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy." \--
Oscar Wilde

~~~
joel_ms
That looks like a paraphrasing of Parkinson's Law[0]

[0]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinsons_Law>

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zbowling
I've never been a fan of ICE's technique of seizing domains. I don't think
they should have the authority to do that. And then updating them and
redirecting to their page that the domain was seized and potentially tracking
the IPs of those that visit the site. It really bothers me that they have the
authority to do that in the first place.

They have already got in to some hot water when they seized a dynamic dns
domain that was hosting thousands of subdomains (only one was accused of
pedophilia trafficking). They wildcard redirected the domain to an IP that
hosts a page saying that domain was seized because the site was hosting
pedophilia. Pedophilia labeling was strung across a lots of personal sites,
church websites, and radio station websites in the processes. It took days for
them to revert it and have all the DNS records propagated but the damage was
partly already done as it labeled innocent parties as pedophiles without due
process.

Not sure who is doing oversite of the DHS/ICE's efforts here. Probably best
not to buy .COM/.NET domains, especially if you register it with US address in
the WHOIS.

~~~
jarin
I saw someone point out that DHS's seized domain page isn't very accessible
due to just being an image.

I noticed that the image is always named something generic like banner2.jpg
and there's no other uniquely identifiable information in the HTML. I think
they do it specifically to make it very difficult to Google Search for seized
domains.

~~~
zbowling
Violation of government accessibility requirements. Oh and it's horribly
compressed (150k+ IIRC), text stored on a JPEG (PNG is so much better for
graphics), not hosted on a CDN, lacks etags so there is no caching, and the
background image of the "seized" text in red is just as bad. Wasting my tax
money on massive bandwidth drain to host the page and wastes my bandwidth caps
to load it. Makes me angry.

~~~
jimktrains2
> Violation of government accessibility requirements.

I've always wondered if they could be sued for that.

~~~
jrockway
I'll throw in a few bucks if you want to try.

~~~
jimktrains2
IANAL and don't have the time to arrange something like this or I would def
try.

PS: I would throw money someone's way to do this too.

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akavlie
TL;DR -- Mafiaafire redirects you to an alternative domain when the primary
domain is moved or seized. So basically the DHS is trying to suppress a
workaround to their domain seizures.

I'm not sure they have much of a legal argument here though, nor do they have
a due process workaround... well, unless they seize mozilla.org.

~~~
rhizome
If the DHS had a legal leg to stand on they would have delivered their request
via official channels.

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pavel_lishin
They didn't actually mention what channels they went through. What would an
"official channel" look like, in this case?

Also, perhaps they didn't want to spend the $5k on a lawyer to draw up an
official document, hoping that a simple request would suffice. Understandable,
and laudable - as is Mozilla's refusal to comply with what is nothing more
than a request.

~~~
rhizome
_What would an "official channel" look like, in this case?_

Though nobody concerned is revealing the actual delivery method, it would look
something like a process server and it wouldn't be called "asking."

~~~
gscott
They don't need official channels... they can just take the domain name for
providing a plug-in that links to pirated content. The Mozilla domain might
pull up a DHS graphic any day now! (it would be interesting if the DHS would
go so far as to take down a site used by millions... but you never know as it
appears DHS is above the law)

~~~
asadotzler
a site used by hundreds of millions, actually :-) and a site that helps ensure
the security of every Firefox user across the globe.

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jarin
Is it just me, or does DHS really seem like a rogue organization that thinks
they're above things like due process?

~~~
larrik
Which is bad enough when they are, you know, _securing the homeland_.

This kind of thing just makes them look like hired thugs (working essentially
for free, no less).

~~~
jarin
I kind of wonder why there isn't more outrage over stuff like this. I guess
I'm either overreacting or people just don't understand it (or don't care).

~~~
wladimir
There is quite a lot of outrage over it. But on the other hand, people feel
powerless to do anything against these kind of things. There is so much to be
outraged about. The current course of events, resulting in more and more
restrictions of freedom, seems inevitable.

~~~
marshray
There also seems to be a huge segment of the population who don't notice
anything at all unless it happens somewhere between their television and the
nearest WalMart.

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eck
Domains seem sort of like property but on some level are really speech. Were
the NY Times to write an article that said, "The IP address of
www.whatever.com is 1.2.3.4" would DHS try to shut down the presses?
Ultimately, conveying that piece of information is what this plugin (and
indeed, the DNS system before DHS got to it) does.

------
eschulte
If you upvoted this article and think raising awareness of such overreaches is
important consider contacting your elected representative, the person whose
job is to hold government organizations accountable to the public's concerns.

<https://writerep.house.gov/>

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eli
Well, I guess they can ask for whatever they want.

IANAL, but I don't see how it could be illegal to violate a court order that
is not directed at you.

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suprgeek
Typical Government High-handed tactic. We will ask sternly that you
"Remove/Stop/Cease" certain activity as it renders some of our actions
slightly less effective.

Basically Mozilla replied with "Oh Yeah...Show me which law compels me to
listen to your non-threat threat? " Fantastic and perfectly legal response.

99% of others would have just blindly complied - which is probably more scary
to me than anything any External entity might do to America.

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kia
This will be another occurrence of Streisand effect.

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everlost
Anybody else curious about these "seized domains" Homeland Security is trying
to "protect" us from?

~~~
everlost
Ok, I was really curious, so here's what I found so far:

<http://www.channelsurfing.net/>

<http://atdhe.net/>

<http://www.rojadirecta.org/>

<http://www.firstrow.net/>

<http://ilemi.com/>

Most were video streaming websites.

~~~
murz
Last year ICE seized 9 other domains too (also mostly video streaming).
Details here: [http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/01/business/la-fi-ct-
pi...](http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/01/business/la-fi-ct-
piracy-20100701)

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asadotzler
Another interesting thing here is that Mozilla has just provided the blueprint
for responses should other sites get this kind of request. Perhaps this could
seed a project for "how to respond if it happens to you".

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alexqgb
Wow, what a text-book perfect response from Mozilla. Well played, guys.

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wildmXranat
DHS will not get far as is it's evident that they are asking, not telling. The
law isn't on their side and let's hope that they're not above it.

As far as Mozilla is concerned, I have always held them in high regard and
this case reaffirms my point of view. What scares me though, is the far
reaching arm of DHS being able to take down domains in the first place.

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sp332
Is anyone else worried that the MafiaaFire authors might start putting bogus
redirects in the plugin? Does anyone know the people behind it?

~~~
uriel
The authors of all kinds of extensions could do all kinds of trickery, when
you install an extension you generally are trusting the author of that
extension.

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smokeyj
The circus will run out of fuel eventually.

~~~
uriel
I'm not so optimistic.

The airport security circus has been going for a very long time, and only
getting worse.

~~~
cagey
And before too long it will be expanded to include the "High Speed Rail
security circus"!

~~~
camiller
Well how else are we to keep a terrorist from crashing a train into the White
House?

~~~
cagey
Or: how else are we to get even more subjects (er, citizens) fully accepting
of getting full-body xray-scans of their "privates" (saved on a server
somewhere forever, no doubt) performed by their neighbor the DHS bureaucrat,
who is "just doing his/her [badly needed] job"?

And hopefully gas prices will go up well past $10/G so even more subjects will
be forced into mass transit. Then, one "terrorist bomb" on a muni bus, and
bingo: DHS for all (or would that be "DHS uber alles"?)! (Unemployment will
drop sharply due to DHS hiring; the MSM will be gleeful!).

Thank goodness for Big Brother.

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Chrono
Quite worrying development. I don't see why DHS should police IP.

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adam_rex
The proper name should be the Union of Motherland Securities (it might be a
better fit for them to be a part of old Soviet Union)

