
iOS App Store now allows legacy downloads to support older OSes - cleverjake
http://9to5mac.com/2013/09/17/ios-app-store-now-allows-legacy-app-downloads-to-support-older-hardware-and-software/
======
jaysonelliot
It's a wonderful half-measure, but also serves to highlight a problem with
cloud-based installs that I'm not optimistic will ever go away.

When software was distributed physically, the consumer always had the freedom
to use any version of an application they liked. Want to run a lightweight
version of Word because you don't need all the latest features, or maybe you
just hate the new UI? No problem. Did you like some video game better before
they "improved" it? Just get the old disk out and play it.

Some people will argue that software developers should be able to require that
their customers always have the latest versions of their product. I personally
believe that decision should be in the hands of the user.

I'd love to see Apple allow side-loading for consumers, at the very least. The
best solution, in my opinion, would be to also allow users to access some kind
of "advanced" menu that would let them choose whichever older version of an
app they choose.

~~~
arn
This is actually an advantage of cloud distribution. What if you want to run
an older version of Word but haven't bought it yet? It can be a pain to find
an old copy to buy. Whereas Apple has all the old versions on their servers
and can deliver the exact one that will run on your system.

~~~
pdpi
Provided Apple (or whatever other provider) actually distributes the old
versions. Somehow, that never seems to be the case.

~~~
iwasakabukiman
What do you mean? The whole purpose of this new feature is that Apple is
giving users older versions when they need them...

~~~
pdpi
Which is novel enough to be a news article.

~~~
melange
That's why we're discussing the news.

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erickhill
No offense to anyone but I have a serious question: why are we hearing about
this from a Mac blog rather than from Apple directly? This is quite an
important change and to learn of it by scanning HN et al seems a tad
ridiculous.

~~~
iwasakabukiman
Apple will just add new features without press releases all the time.

------
jcampbell1
The next step is allow us to do maintenance upgrades to legacy versions. In
many situations it is easier to maintain a legacy app, with a separate iOS7
code base. Unfortunately there is no way to do this without creating duplicate
apps in the store. The alternative is a single code base that is very
difficult to reason about the behavior due to tons of feature/version
checking.

~~~
gcb0
For that the only solution is what already happens in android. You see lots of
apps that have 20 versions for each device/OS version.

Just to highlight the problem... i can't download a game on an iphone from
[Adult Swim] because it requires a front facing camera!

I've been playing the same game on the new ipad with the front facing camera
for 2 months. Never found anything that use the camera. go figure.

~~~
kalleboo
I don't know if things have changed, but we used to add random "requirements"
like that to our app when we needed to remove support for hardware that was
too old and slow. Our app ran terribly on the original iPhone (largely due to
the nature of the app) so we added some requirement that only the iPhone 3G
had.

~~~
gcb0
oh, didn't see that as a 'feature' for the developers... my bad. and i really
wasn't expecting something like that.

------
bengotow
I think this will help out consumers overall, but I don't want customers
posting negative reviews of my app because the old version they downloaded
crashes due to a Facebook or Twitter API change that I patched the app for
months ago. Considering that folks post reviews from to-be-released versions
of the OS, I assume Apple will let these folks post reviews as well?

------
escoz
Apple could have told developers about this during WWDC, but didn't.

My guess is Apple decided to do this last minute, after they saw the number of
iOS7-only apps that developers were submitting.

~~~
jimsilverman
looks like they're fearing slow/low iOS7 adoption, considering how boldly they
emphasize how few legacy iOS users are out there.

~~~
melange
No. It's looks like they are telling developers the state of affairs, so that
_they_ don't fear slow adoption.

~~~
escoz
Agree. Knowing that users of old devices will continue to be able to use your
app makes me a lot more excited about releasing for iOS7 only.

------
chucknelson
A good thing for consumers, but I wonder how developers feel about this. If
they fix some bug that may have been causing big problems on a server-side
component, won't they now have to worry about these older versions being used?

~~~
div
That's something you've always had to worry about though. You can't force a
user to upgrade, so your best bet is to handle those issues server-side.

~~~
jedberg
> You can't force a user to upgrade

Sure you can. Netflix will sometimes have to do this. The old software just
isn't allowed to talk to the server anymore.

~~~
iwasakabukiman
Which would be handling thins server side.

~~~
ianstallings
You can do this app-side by checking the version versus what's in the app
store via itunes webservice. For example:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2221436/can-i-force-an-
ip...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2221436/can-i-force-an-iphone-user-
to-upgrade-an-application)

I don't recommend that unless you have a mission critical bug, and even then
I'd discourage it. A user is in charge of his/her device. I version APIs on
the backend and then simply push out updates like any other software. If they
choose not to use it then not much I can do. Eventually I'll turn the older
API versions off and they'll either have to upgrade or stop using the app.

------
donretag
I wonder if this applies to the Mac App Store, but I doubt it.

I want to purchase Logic for an older Macbook, but the OS doesn't support
Logic X. Apple won't sell a compatible version and there is no shrink-wrapped
version.

~~~
jasomill
Sure there is; while Apple no longer produces it or sells it directly, it's
still in the channel, _e.g.,_ from Amazon[1].

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Logic-Studio-Old-
Version/dp/B002...](http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Logic-Studio-Old-
Version/dp/B002ISDD1K)

------
kbutler
Is this an acknowledgement by Apple that there will be tens of millions of iOS
users who cannot upgrade their devices to iOS7?

I'm personally in this camp, with iPhone 3GS and iPad 1. I'm hoping to be able
to get an iPad Mini Retina soon, but the older devices remain in use. (The
original iPhone doesn't get much use anymore, though...)

------
300bps
This is likely an attempt to head off the jailbreaking and app copying that
many people resort to after discovering their otherwise fully functioning
device is basically a paperweight in that it can't install any apps.

Unfortunately from real world tests it doesn't appear to be available for many
truly older iOS versions.

~~~
melange
What truly older iOS versions?

~~~
oleyb
I see it available on 4.2.1 but not 3.1.3.

------
untog
Happy to see this being codified - Spotify currently has an old version for <=
iOS4 as a separate app, which is fantastic for my old iPod I have lying
around. I was concerned that at some point Apple would forbid them from doing
this, glad they went in the opposite direction.

~~~
neon_electro
Can you tell us if you were able to successfully download the old version?
Just curious if it definitely works for your use case.

------
methodin
Do they have the experience with this "fragmentation" to pull this off
effectively? What will it do from a developer's perspective?

------
div
This is great for customers.

I wonder if and how having that popup appear will affect people upgrading to
the latest and greatest.

~~~
AlisdairSH
Presumably, you'd only see the pop-up if you're running a non-current version
of iOS (and need the previous version of the app)?

~~~
div
Correct, what I'm wondering about is how this popup will drive people to
realize that "hey, I can upgrade to a new version of iOS".

iOS already has a pretty fast adoption rate for new versions, I wonder if this
will make it even better.

------
kalleboo
Does this apply to new purchases as well, or just redownloading something you
already bought before?

~~~
kbutler
I expect you'll buy the app [the new version] and this will allow you to
download the old version from an older device logged in to your account.

------
hcarvalhoalves
This is basically Apple themselves showing they don't trust everybody will
like iOS7.

~~~
bonaldi
It's less that and more that there is now a significant-enough installed base
that can't upgrade to the latest OS. There's now a lot of older iPhones and
iPods Touch out there that will never get 7.

Knowing that, developers will become increasingly reluctant to leave those
customers behind -- and so will keep building for 6 and earlier, and won't use
the new 7-only stuff.

This way, devs can immediately go to 7, knowing that customers stuck on older
versions will not suddenly be unable to buy or (re)install their apps.

~~~
hcarvalhoalves
I'm one myself, since my 3GS still works.

If iOS7 were any good in my opinion, I would feel compelled to upgrade to a 4
or 5 though, as already happened before for users of 3 and prior.

This App Store change makes people like me even less compelled to upgrade, so
this move is kinda unexpected coming from Apple, since it keeps the inertia.

~~~
melange
Have you tried iOS7 on an iPhone 5?

------
dshep
Good move Apple!

------
oscargrouch
year-2024 Banana statement to its customers: "As a sign of the commitment of
the Banana Inc. to its customers freedom in a uOS App Store near you, the uOS
no longer controls where are you going, and gives you complete permission to
go to the grocery store or to play with your kids.. talk badly or curse Banana
Inc. is expressely forbiden of course, as usual, and you will receive an
instant eletro-shock (from the spy app you can never remove). Therefore you
are completely free. only in the next versions of the uOS in a store near you"

its in times like these that i miss shows like Monty Python..

Those guys could show with a good dose of intelligent humor, how stupid people
behaviour are sometimes..

~~~
oscargrouch
Im very happy my comment its the last one on this particular post.. :)

this news to be on the front page of HN like if it was a good thing, its just
ludicrous..

if you have a pocket relation with apple thats understandable and forgivable..
but the ones that accept this kind of policies by only one company, because
they are attached to the "brand" in somehow? its beyond sanity

There are bad implications to us all, if this model make its way into others
companies and take over our culture, you could even say bye-bye to your
beloved startup culture or the ability to launch the technologies that
eventually will make a good thing to us all, and have people using it..

oh, they put money on your pocket? but whats is the real price that everybody
else will have to pay for it?

you consume it? then its like that thing you like and make you happy, lets say
a chocolate.. but or do employ slave labours, or have bad environment
implications.. if you have conscious, you will always fell bad to feel good
about it..

