
Amazon Lobbied More Government Entities Than Any Other US Company Last Year - symisc_devel
https://www.axios.com/amazon-lobbying-washington-wide-reach-0f7253e4-234e-462a-aca1-ca19705b9c39.html
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Shivetya
Isn't this the point of politicians pressuring corporations? I remember back,
way back, when Apple was caught off guard and "appropriately" stepped up with
lobbying and political contributions.

It is hard for me to find fault with any company which lobbies the government
because they have no choice. If they don't play the game someone else will and
use their influence to get the power of government applied to their
competitors directly or indirectly.

One way to fix it is not to prevent anyone from spending money on campaigns
but to instead prohibit politicians, their immediate family, and relatives,
from participating in any position that may have influence over a regulating
body. It is very common to have family of politicians benefit by either
getting jobs directly with a lobbying company or lobbying firm but the other
method is through PACs which pay them huge salaries for part time work.

I could care less what they do before they are in office but once in it needs
to be clamped down. congress and their relatives are more likely to increase
their wealth by magnitudes than lose it, the reason is simple, they structured
the rules to benefit them and make it nigh impossible to unseat them

~~~
darksaints
I'm of the opinion that the effect of lobbying is tiny. Lobbyists are
communicating with representatives about policy...something that every
organization should attempt to do. Politicians rely on lobbyists to inform
their decisions.

The real culprit in the pervasive corporatism in the US is campaign finance.
Quid pro quo is the name of the game here. Politicians know that if
corporations aren't helping them get elected that they will be helping their
opponents get elected. It's a hell of a lot easier to say no to a lobbyist
than it is to a campaign donor that could easily turn on you. If we banned
corporate lobbying, Congress would simply make more uninformed decisions, but
banning corporate campaign finance would eliminate an incentive for
deliberately bad decisions.

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btilly
It looks to me like your opinion is based on drawing an artificial distinction
between "real lobbyists" and what real lobbyists actually _do_.

It is the job of lobbyists to get politicians to do what the lobbyist wants.
Campaign finance, job offers, favors for people the politician cares about,
status symbols such as honorary degrees - all are normal stock in trade for a
lobbyist.

That said, I agree. Lobbyists who do none of the things that are known to be
effective, are ineffective and do not have an impact. They also do not deliver
results and do not tend to get happy clients.

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andrewla
Lobbying has a real and narrow legal definition, and it does not include the
other things you list there. It sounds like you're agreeing with GP and that
you don't think that lobbying is that effective.

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btilly
Given sites like
[https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/lobby_contribs.php](https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/lobby_contribs.php)
that document the campaign contributions of lobbyists, I'm going to want a
reference to the legal definition of lobbying that excludes campaign
contributions.

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justaguyhere
I honestly don't know who is worse these days - wall street firms or big tech
companies. These (Google, Amazon ... ) were the same companies that we looked
up to, just a few years ago. How much things can change in such a short time
:(

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jeletonskelly
I, for one, still look up to them. I don't completely understand where the
negative views started, but I suspect it was with Facebook, fake news, and the
election or maybe the Amazon HQ2 disaster.

Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and
participating in a system that has existed for centuries. They got large
because they built things people wanted. What's wrong with that? I just don't
get it. It's like a mob with pitchforks is forming to break-up "big tech" and
they won't be satisfied until they've slayed the giants whether it's justified
or not.

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techsupporter
> Now, for some reason, they are being demonized for being large and
> participating in a system that has existed for centuries.

I think for a lot of people, myself included, it's because we weren't supposed
to just "participate" in that system. We meant to improve it, to make it more
fair, and more useful for all people. To improve lives and do no evil, as it
were.

Instead, we've wound up with the exact same robber barons of old. This time,
instead of trains or oil or telegraph poles, we've created behemoths that
actively try to spy on, categorize, and monetize people to extents never
before dreamed possible.

Worse, lots of the people around us--people who claimed to be interested in
the same things we were--are now demonizing us for our long-held views,
"privacy obviously isn't that important because people so willingly give it up
just read the terms of service" and "steady jobs with benefits stifle
innovation being paid by the piece as a transient worker with no employment
protections is the new hotness because people so willingly sign up for it just
read the terms of service."

Lots of people lined up to take hatchets to Microsoft twenty years ago but now
Google and Amazon get away with much worse far more often and they're deemed
untouchable. That baffles me. I can't "look up" to those companies who came
after and trampled over the imperfect vision of people who came before,
especially when they started out trying to build the vision we thought we said
we wanted but then turned to the path that makes the most money in bulk even
though it compromises almost all of those beliefs.

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vicpara
You either allow lobbying or ban it. Amazon used a legal process to tip the
balance in their favour. The entire lobbying thing does sound to me like a
hack in the entire democratic process.

People should vote not companies.

~~~
afarrell
Lobbying in some form is explicitly protected by the 1st amendment. The
question is: If you form a contract for someone else to petition for a redress
of greivances on you behalf, is that contract void?

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snarfy
1st amendment rights apply to people. They should not apply to corporations.

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solomatov
And what about NGOs? What's the difference between NGOs and corporations?

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vonmoltke
NGOs _are_ corporations, legally.

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solomatov
Yes, they are :-) And forbidding them from lobbying will prevent people from
organizing groups protecting their interests.

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noobermin
Remember when internet companies were supposed to be disrupting the system,
not co-opting it and making regulatory capture favor themselves?

~~~
mattferderer
Lobbying itself isn't bad & is needed to help disrupt things. Politicians
require lobbyists & experts to explain different sides to them.

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rchaud
You make it sound like they're lining up to have a moment with their local
representative like the rest of us. As if there's not thousands in campaign
contributions and in-kind gifts hinging on the politician swinging their way.

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paxy
If you think they are lobbying now, wait till their Virginia HQ opens up.

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YeahSureWhyNot
I am really worried that once it becomes a major employer in Virginia area
Amazon will actually stop spending money on lobbying and start using layoffs
and other muscle moves on their VA area workforce to pressure public officials
into caving in to their demands. It probably was the main reason why they
'decided to split' the HQ2 between NY and Virginia. Virginia was in play all
along because of its proximity to DC and New York was their main choice
because of many reasons that dont need explanation. The whole casting cities
and states was a shitshow put on to get New York and Virginia states/cities to
give as big tax breaks as possible. So glad New Yorkers didnt play into
Amazon's greedy game.

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stone-monkey
Even if they flexed their employer muscles, that would only affect local
officials. Why would a republican senator from Kansas care if they're going to
cut jobs in Virginia?

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YeahSureWhyNot
because he doesn't want local families protesting in front of his local
residence embarrassing him in front of all his other big shot neighbors?

~~~
stone-monkey
I'm sure politicians get as embarrassed as the next person by public shaming,
but forgive me if I'm inclined to believe they won't act much on complaints by
non constituents.

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god_bless_texas
Amazon's reach into the FAA is particularly hysterical. Given that Amazon
would like to do drone deliveries and has pissed off the FAA in some regards
in the past - specific regulatory language confirms this - they have a huge
footprint and open door policy in the DC offices. Companies competing in the
delivery space like WalMart, UPS, etc should be very nervous about the
drafting that goes on now at Amazon's becking.

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jimmy1
I think sometimes people assume that x amount of lobbying dollars = y
influence, but it's not a linear equation at all. At the end of the day, it is
still people you are dealing with, and sometimes people can happily take your
money, make you believe they are going to do what they said, and then not do
it.

Source: family members are lobbyists.

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YeahSureWhyNot
so what you are saying is its possible that poor Amazon wasn't able to get all
the political influence it paid for and we are should not be angry at it for
trying to buy itsel support that it otherwise would not have

~~~
jimmy1
I think it's not as black and white. Amazon has all of that money because we
as a society supported it's growth. We like Amazon, and we gave them our
money. If the tables were turned, and you were a billionaire altruistic
philanthropist, would you not attempt to do the same thing with your money?
It's the same concept, just different side of the coin.

Lobbying is not an exclusive concept. I could right now pay someone to go
lobby the government for me. Obviously I wouldn't get very far, but what if my
neighbors and I pooled our money together? And their neighbors? And so on and
so forth and indeed that is how many lobbying arms are formed outside of
industry.

Ultimately at the end of the day, Lobbying is viewed with contempt because we
have corrupt officials that weigh the opinions of certain lobbyist who are
looking to corrupt the law for their own interests more than what is good for
the general public. If you took out lobbying right now, you would still be
left with corrupt officials that weigh the opinions of people with money more
than the general public. But here is the kicker: you would do more harm than
good, because now advocacy groups do not have a way to influence officials.
Lobbying, however contemptible it seems to most people, exists because it does
serve a purpose. Your elected officials cannot possibly keep up with the sea
of issues in their constituencies. Lobbying provides a sort of self-selecting
way for the more important issues to "bubble up to the top"

What is always missing from conversations on lobbying is the hundreds of other
lobbying groups that have as their mission to serve to improve the general
good or public and how eliminating it would impact the good that is done by
them (as evidenced by sibling comment by mtgx).

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dgzl
Jeff sure does love operating at scale.

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duado
They have the most diverse set of businesses of any company, so this makes
sense.

~~~
smt88
Why is product diversity a driver of lobbying? Does Amazon have to lobby
anyone at all?

There are institutional investors who have stakes in a much wider variety of
companies than Amazon. Why aren't they at the top of the list?

~~~
afarrell
The headline says “more government entities”, implying diversity of
regulations-they-care-about.

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deytempo
Interested in learning how to count how many times each company lobbied...

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MrBuddyCasino
Amazon is also larger and more diversified than most other American companies.
Is suspect their lobbying dollars per revenue hasn't hanged all that much over
the years.

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distant_hat
Maybe they are diversifying into government now.

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maxk42
And they also own a major national publication.

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r_singh
I wonder if this has anything to do with Jeff Bezos being from Wall Street?

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TheLuddite
Break-it-up

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dang
Url changed from [http://fortune.com/2019/03/13/amazon-lobbying-
washington/](http://fortune.com/2019/03/13/amazon-lobbying-washington/), which
points to this.

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blablablabla991
It's also bigger than any other US company, isn't it? (Head to head with
Apple)

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crb002
Thats because every Govt entity uses compute, and every govt entity needs a
office goods supplier.

