
The Moral Bucket List - shakes
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/12/opinion/sunday/david-brooks-the-moral-bucket-list.html
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alexashka
I feel dirty after reading this. As if I spoke to an older person who instead
of having a conversation with me and asking me how I'm doing and what I'm
doing and where I'm going - sat me down and gave a talk on how I OUGHT to live
my life, citing numerous examples of people who've 'made something of
themselves'

In other words, instead of meeting me half way, there's an aura of 'here's how
the people I look up to lived their lives, now you go and do the same.'

It's gross.

The last line sums it up - "Those are the people we want to be."

We? Since when does the author feel he's so much better than everybody else,
that he feels qualified to tell the readers of the NYTimes what they want to
be?

This self-help nonsense is completely out of control. Folks are struggling to
feel financially secure and a million writers/public speakers, etc have
cropped up, explaining how you just need to do X to make that go away.

Not really, nothing is going to make the feeling of 'I am expendable' go away
when it is true, except being delusional. People are eating it up of course
but please...

~~~
nickbauman
I totally see where you're coming from, but remember, everyone needs to feel
special. Even David Brooks. Even you. You can't go through life thinking "I am
expendable", it's immolating and unsustainable. What is human in each of us is
what reveals us. It often undignified (David Brooks, for example, feels that
he's not lived a life worth living but then he writes a book about it. That's
_so_ not going to work, yet there he is.) It's definitely imperfect. But this
is the sheet music of who we are. You're not going to escape it either.

~~~
CamperBob2
_You can 't go through life thinking "I am expendable"_

Take an introductory astronomy class. You'll find you don't have a choice.

~~~
landryraccoon
Reality and what you think don't have to have any relation. What people
believe and what is objectively provable are only weakly correlated.

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macromaniac
People generally dont become good from dramatic life events like those
described in the article.

Being good is a habit. Constantly ask yourself what a good person would do and
do it as much as possible until it becomes second nature.

At any moment in time you should be able to make a compelling argument for why
you are a good person, eg: "Im a good person because I helped jump start that
ladies car earlier today, and last friday I worked at a soup kitchen".

If you cant make an argument using specific examples then you arent a good
person.

~~~
padolsey
To be fair, the article doesn't talk about being merely "good", but the much
harder-to-achieve and more subjectively understood virtues of character,
generosity and empathy. From what I've seen, the people who emanate these
qualities most abundantly have in-fact been dealt great blows in their past --
they've often overcome great trials and through their hardships have gained a
sincere empathy and understanding of people.

~~~
nickbauman
My wife has a relative who survived the Bataan death march. He's now in his
90's. He's that guy. He radiates gratefulness. Any of us would likely feel
like a train wreck around him.

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nemo
Brooks writing about this topic is really rich given what a morally bankrupt
SOB he is. From cheerleading the Iraq war, to whitewashing Abu Ghraib and
attacking people for mentioning it, and all manner of other promotions of
terrible ideas that have created actual human suffering, the sheer hubris of
him offering advice on topics of ethics or morality is dumbfounding.

~~~
kareemm
While I agree with you, it's probably wise to consider his point independent
of his opinions on other issues.

~~~
Jach
Maybe if you were friends with the guy, sure, or if you really need a reminder
that ideological enemies are still human. But I prefer to know whom I'm
dealing with, so I'm appreciative of nemo for bringing up the guy's history.
The Most Evil Person In The World may nonetheless have important and true
things to say about being good -- but I'd prefer not to give MEPITW any of my
time, I'd encourage others not to as well, and if I'm really interested in
learning about being good I'd rather learn it from actually good people, who
probably have the same important and true things to say anyway. I can hear it
from them.

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nemo1618
My favorite Fermi Paradox solution thus far is the "Transcension Hypothesis"
([http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/the-transcension-
hy...](http://brighterbrains.org/articles/entry/the-transcension-hypothesis-
an-intriguing-answer-to-the-fermi-paradox)), which basically says that
sufficiently advanced civilizations invariably turn _inward_ , rather than
_outward_.

~~~
onnoonno
Interesting weird and crazy read. Thanks for the link.

So maybe we are going towards a 'Weirdocalypse' now?

While reading the article, it feels to be somehow close to the edge of
insanity. For some reason, that seems to happen nowadays when big concepts are
put together.

I have this impression this means we are starting to lack new and better
language for the stuff that we describe.

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lqdc13
Pretty sure Steve Jobs was a dick and had a ton of people mourn him. Also see
Lenin and every other famous powerful leader who went out on good terms.

Unless he means something else by "eulogy" virtues.

~~~
Karunamon
Jobs _was_ a _massive_ dick by any objective measure, but the eulogizing of
him does prove that the tech his company championed touched a lot of people in
positive ways.

As an Apple fan and as a tech geek, I count myself among that number.

It's actually an interesting dichotomy. On the smaller scale, his effect on
the world (employees, friends) was negative (screwing over Wozniak, his
infamous behavior on campus), but on the larger one, positive (tight
environmental standards on products, making computers easier to use, pushing
the state of the art for design forward).

I doubt Apple as we know it would exist today had Jobs not been at the helm.

~~~
lqdc13
I agree, but I think the author of the article was talking about the 'smaller
world'.

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dmansen
If you think this essay is smart or good, please familiarize yourself with
Brooks's history.

I'll leave the judgement to you

~~~
eevilspock
But what if you disregard the author and judge the content of the essay
itself?

~~~
visarga
I have no idea who Brooks is, and liked the essay. It has excellent
expressions like: "a moral vocabulary", "It is easy to slip into a self-
satisfied moral mediocrity. You grade yourself on a forgiving curve" and
"reason and compassion are not strong enough to consistently defeat
selfishness, pride and self-deception. We all need redemptive assistance from
outside." These resonate as true for me.

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lifeformed
Is anyone else unable to highlight text on this page? Also, if I double-click
on a word it zooms in?!

~~~
yourad_io
This frequently comes up in NYT submissions. The answer is: this is
intentional/you have stumbled upon an "improved experience" (welcome to the
future), and: noscript.

It is a true fractal of bad design. "This didn't need fixing guys, but A for
effort."

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daoudc
There are many paths to achieve this kind of good character, but in my
(somewhat biased) opinion, Sufism is one of the most richly developed.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazkiah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazkiah)

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bootload
_" Many of us are clearer on how to build an external career than on how to
build inner character."_

You don't consciously build character. Character is the combination of
decisions made over time, some good, some okay and occasionally a bad one.

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cafard
I know that the HN guidelines from on snark, but does any one else see the
expression "bucket list" and think at once of Mr. Creosote?

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randallsquared
> We all know that the eulogy virtues are more important than the résumé ones.

Clearly we do not all know that. Revealed preference, etc.

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quadrangle
tldr: Real meaning in life comes from being motivated to make a positive
difference in the world outside yourself, whether big global things or just
those around you. Selfish indulgence and self-centered attitudes are morally
shallow and unfulfilling.

Amen. (But the article provides no interesting or inspiring actual content or
insight).

