
33 dead after arson attack at Kyoto Animation studio, dozens injured - xbmcuser
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190718/p2a/00m/0na/002000c
======
ksec
My favourite Anime of All time, Full Metal Panic were produced by Kyoto
Animation. If you are are into Robot / Tech Anime it is well worth a watch, I
simply felt in love with Chidori Kaname, female protagonist of the series,
partly because the male protagonist is a ( Real ) nerd, and it is what some of
the nerds first girl friend would act in real world. Its Companion Series Full
Metal Panic Fumoffu is also hilarious.

Kyoto is one of the best Animation Studio not only in Japan but in the world,
I remember they have a "Making of" section in the DVDs and show how much
details they put into each drawing, taking thousands of Photos in Hong Kong
and redraw them in the Story. So those places aren't made up and for anyone
living in Hong Kong it would have been instantly recognisable, even accurate
to the sign of a poster and banner of shops. And it isn't just the quality of
those drawing, there are Studio which could do decent Animation but completely
lack the skill in Story telling, Character Build up and Tempo etc. Kyoto not
only has it all, but they have also been doing it consistently for the past 20
years if not more.

Those 20+ must have been some of the best in the industry.

I pray and hope there will be no more casualties from this incident. And those
that passed away, RIP.

I read the Japanese Animation are still very much labour intensive, and not a
lot of computer graphics involved, I am not sure if that is still true. ( And
if it is, why are there little to no innovation to improve its efficiency )
And Animation, Manga industry tends to have long working hours even by
Japanese Standards.

~~~
mrpara
It's still true. Japanese animators are paid by the pennies and work
ridiculous hours. Since they're often paid on a per-frame basis rather than
hourly pay, sometimes it adds up to less than minimum hourly wage. KyoAni was
actually one of the few who were known to pay reasonably well, and they also
had sort of dormitories slash training facilities for their animators. As for
computers, generally speaking the frames are still drawn on paper and scanned,
and then colored digitally.

~~~
Mengkudulangsat
Why though?!

It frustrates me that the industry have to rely on fans / foreign distributors
/ bootleg to get an audience out of Japan. Leaves so much money on the table.

I would be more than happy to pay Eiichiro Oda and his team for an english
.pdf of the latest One Piece delivered to my inbox the second it comes out.

~~~
falcolas
> Why though?!

There's not a ton of money in the Anime industry. Especially over-seas, since
translation is a very labor intensive and largely manual process.

There's also not a guaranteed audience for an anime. They have to rely on fans
of the existing works (typically light novels) to view the (often drastically
different) animes. I've seen a few of my favorite series get dropped due to
being too niche.

~~~
buzer
> Especially over-seas, since translation is a very labor intensive and
> largely manual process.

Subbed translations at least previously were not usually very labor intensive
if you didn't try to do heavy localization or typesetting everything (I
remember someone translating every single book name in some bookcase). Fansubs
managed to do pretty good job with just about 1MD worth of effort per episode
(~20x length of the episode, extremely small amount compared to work required
to actually produce the original episode). Old fansubs did need quite a bit
more, but improved processes, tools & computers (just encoding & uploading
used to pretty slow step) also improved the overall speed. No clue what how
much CR & co need these days.

Of course, dubbing is very different case, but that's usually only done for
DVD/Blu-ray releases. No clue if it's really worth to do it though, but my
viewpoint is probably too biased.

~~~
falcolas
That’s a fair point on the subtitling. I do know that translations for
Japanese dialog can differ in difficulty - there are some more esoteric
writing/speaking dialects which can take a significant amount of effort to
turn into English dialog (for example, “The Irregular in Magic High School”
novels have very poor official translations, largely due to how it was written
in Japanese).

As for dubbing, there are instances where animes are “simultaneous dubbed” for
international release. A recent example is Shield Hero.

------
devilmoon
Apparently the motivation for the attack was that "KyoAni has stolen something
from the attacker", unconfirmed reports that the something in question was a
Light Novel the attacker wrote but got rejected by KyoAni, which apparently
then got turned into an original work by the studio (possibly stealing here
and there from the LN or anyhow drawing inspiration from it) without crediting
the attacker or compensating him. I can see this happening in all honesty, I
am sure that editors get to read a lot of stuff from applicants which can then
be polished to produce something in-house, kind of like when bigger companies
fish for start-ups tech to reimplement it in-house.

Anyhow, the article doesn't mention it but I just though I would write this
down in case anyone was curious about the potential motivation.

~~~
m0llusk
Intellectual property issues once again. People think they own ideas and
glorify themselves as originators. In reality once an idea is communicated it
is free. All people can really do is add value to an idea by promoting it,
framing it, demonstrating it, aiding in its application, and so on. Yet here
intellectual property has scaled beyond mere value into critical relevance and
even a person's identity itself. An individual went way out of bounds here,
but some unworkable ideas about intellectual property helped to define the
path. Modern cultures really need to come to terms with the nature of
intellectual property in the Internet era. It's not just about protecting a
mouse anymore.

~~~
gamblor956
Hollywood deals with this by giving the originators of ideas story credit.
There are fairly detailed rules about how much of the final product needs to
derive from their contributions to the final product for the credit to apply.

~~~
izzydata
Disney stole the entirety of The Lion King scene for scene from a Japanese
anime while claiming it to be a 100% completely original Disney made story.

~~~
gamblor956
Both the Lion King and Kimba are based on Hamlet...

And the story of the Lion King has almost nothing in common with Kimba. Have
you actually read the manga or watched the anime? The anime is about the cub
growing up, which the movie entirely skips over. Kimbas life before the anime
is completely different.

While minor scene elements and secondary characters were inspired by the anime
they don't rise to the level of requiring credit.

------
m45t3r
This is really sad. KyoAni (Kyoto Animation) is, as said in other thread, one
of the current best animation studios in the world. I grow up watching their
animes and thinking how they're amazing compared to the majority of japanese
studios.

Some animes bought by them:

\- Full Metal Panic (many laughs, amazing characters and great animation)

\- Air (this is the first time that I did cry in a series of any kind)

\- Kanon (really good adaptation of this great Visual Novel)

\- Clannad (a really emotional series for me, even if the Visual Novel is
better the anime still does a great service for this series)

\- Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (this is the anime that made me fan of them, a
unique approach of slice of life and overpowered beings that was great in its
time)

\- Lucky Star (funny otakus done right)

\- K-On! (a good anime showing cute girls doing cute things)

\- Hyouka ("Sherlock Holmes goes to a japanese high school")

\- Nichijou (funny nonsense done right)

\- Sound Euphonium (I still remember that amazing scene at episode 11)

\- Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid (a great surprise, this seems like a goof
series on its premise however it is so heartwarming)

\- Violet Evergarden (this is available in Netflix and I recommend simply
because the animation is amazing and the story is really emotional)

I don't really care about the reasons of the suspect, there are better ways to
claim copyright infringement, and even if it didn't, there is no reason to
take human lives.

------
Razengan
Very depressing to see news like this from a place like Japan that's generally
well regarded for its safety and peacefulness, especially against a target
like an animation studio, that has only ever provided joy to people.

They did not even produce anything controversial as far as I can tell.

The glaring issue here seems to be the death threats they received prior to
this attack. That should have been taken more seriously by the authorities,
anywhere.

~~~
pmlnr
> well regarded for its safety and peacefulness

Here, dig deeper:

[http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201904170050.html](http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201904170050.html)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/world/asia/japan-
rape.htm...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/29/world/asia/japan-rape.html)

[https://web.archive.org/web/20190421032136/http://japaneseru...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190421032136/http://japaneseruleof7.com/poverty-
in-japan/)

~~~
Razengan
• Saying something is generally better != claiming that it's perfect, with
zero flaws.

• Something can have problems and still generally be better than others.

• Pointing a flaw in something does not make it "as bad" as everything else.

A single tree in a desert does not make it a rainforest, nor a few dead trees
in a forest make it a desert.

See cities in the US with varying rates of crime or corruption and people's
desires to move to them.

~~~
pmlnr
> generally better

Compared to: \- Switzerland? \- Detroit, US? \- Spain?

You feel attacked and I don't understand, why.

~~~
Razengan
> _Compared to: - Switzerland?_

[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-
rape-sexual-violence-consent-amnesty-women-a8923496.html)

------
Quequau
The number of casualties is horrific and hard to understand.

I'm not a huge fan of anime but I understand that this is a major studio with
a long history. So I'm sure that this will have a major impact on the entire
industry.

~~~
_wmd
The BBC article mentions many died on the stairs to the roof. Sounds like a
locked door could have been involved

~~~
fiblye
Japanese buildings also are massively lacking in emergency exits. Almost no
building would pass US safety codes or even come close to it.

~~~
aikinai
Where did you come up with this? Japan has incredibly strict safety
regulations and building codes.

~~~
fiblye
The place I work at is about the same size as this office and only has one
exit (and that's the main door). Many of the facilities I visit for work are
similarly lacking.

Maybe the US really goes over the top, but there are plenty of places where
I'd feel pretty screwed if some sort of disaster occurred.

------
zaarn
Some producers and designers are under the people reported missing, notably
the producers of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid , Free! and Violet Evergarden
(afaict from people translating in a discord chat)

~~~
_0ffh
It's a tragedy one way or another, but somehow that makes me feel even worse.
Kobayashi-san chi no meidoragon is one of the most heartwarming series I have
ever had the pleasure of watching.

------
TheAsprngHacker
KyoAni is responsible for my favorite anime; K-On, as well as Hibike!
Euphonium, another anime that moved me. I hope for the best for the families
of the dead people, and I hope that the wounded people recover as soon as
possible. An attack on KyoAni is an attack on passionate artists following
their dreams.

------
pvaldes
A Pony bottle could fit under any worktable or coin and would provide pure air
for five minutes or so, probably enough to avoid the toxic fumes in the stairs
trap, or to alleviate the poisoning at least, and maybe to save two or three
lifes if shared. Most people can stop breathing for another minute if avoid
the need to cough (the dive mask regulator atached to the bottle will help)

Price around $170, oxygen portable cans are smaller and cheaper, around $50.

With people so disciplined and educated as japanese, a shared standard scuba
dive bottle could had saved most of this people until reaching a safe vented
place. The dismayed people could had been dragged outside also by the other.

The problem is that a scuba bottle could explode after catching fire
unatended, but in a vicious fire the building will be damaged in any case and
people goes first.

------
unityByFreedom
Arson, not an accidental explosion,

> A plastic container and a knife were found left at the scene. The 41-year-
> old suspect told prefectural police that he set fire to the building. Police
> are treating the case as arson.

~~~
kristofferR
Details from other outlets are much more lurid:

 _A man shouted “Die!” as he sprayed a flammable liquid all over an animation
studio in Japan on Thursday and set the building on fire, killing up to 26
people, authorities said._

 _“We have received protests against our company, not a few of them if not on
a daily basis. There were murder emails including those which said ‘die,’” he
told broadcaster NHK._

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/suspected-...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/suspected-
arson-attack-on-japanese-animation-studio-leaves-at-least-dozen-
dead/2019/07/18/4f3112b6-a91d-11e9-8733-48c87235f396_story.html)

------
s9w
Three people in here immediately blamed this on mental illness/mental health.
That feels like such a strange reaction and oversimplification to this.

If what I read is true: The work of the person who did this did get his work
stolen and maybe as a consequence missed out on a lot of money. Then doing
something like this might be quite an overreaction, but is at least in the
realm of understandable, no? Revenge is in human nature.

~~~
lunchables
>might be quite an overreaction, but is at least in the realm of
understandable, no?

You think it is "understandable" to burn down a building because someone stole
your work? If someone did that I would call them "crazy". I definitely see
"mental stability" or "mental health" being a root cause here. Rational,
healthy people do not respond in that way. Call it "temporary insanity" if you
want.

~~~
s9w
Understanding the reasons for a crime does not excuse said crime, or say that
you're ok with it.

If someone robs a bank, I can understand the motivation: He wants money. If
someone punches another, he might want to feel powerful. If someone rapes a
woman he wants sex.

And if someones believes that this company stole his money, I can understand
his motivations to seek revenge. That does not mean it is right, just or
something to look up to. But saying this is completely crazy is a bit naive
IMO.

~~~
Djvacto
Some of your reasonings seem a bit simplified. If someone robs a bank, they
might want money. Is it because they are trying to feed a starving family? Is
their life being threatened due to gambling debts? Or do they just value the
safety of others less than they would the money?

And that is the only arguably victimless crime in your list of 3. A crime can
be committed by a rational person (if I don't do this, my child dies), and it
can be committed by someone who is not mentally well. I would argue that
these, especially the last crime, are all crimes likely to be committed by
someone who is not in a stable or healthy state of mind.

~~~
s9w
My reasoning was _grossly_ oversimplified - I talked about three major crimes
in one sentence.

Would you say that every crime is either a "rational" crime (if I don't do
this, my child dies) or done by someone crazy? If so, I understand the heavy
resistance of you and others here.

------
hello_tyler
The article says "At least 36 people were injured, 10 of them seriously." but
doesn't mention deaths anywhere. I really hope the title is wrong and this is
just some kind of horrible mistake. That's so many good people to have died
for one selfish asshole. Can anyone confirm/deny ?

------
DINKDINK
Maybe it's denial stage but something doesn't add up about 25/"33" dead[1]. Is
it possible that there's something being lost in translation? EFL People often
mistake casualty to mean a death/mortality when it's also used as
(deaths+injuries). I could see that easily being mistranslated by an ESL
person as deaths.

[1]Seems to be corroborated by:
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/07/18/national/dozens...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/07/18/national/dozens-
injured-fire-kyoto-anime-studio-man-questioned-police/)

GoFundMe page for charity: [https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-kyoani-
heal](https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-kyoani-heal)

~~~
yoru-sulfur
From what I've read, at least the "25" figure came directly from a police
statement

[https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20190718/k10011997921000.ht...](https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20190718/k10011997921000.html)

------
userbinator
At all the places I've worked at, a stranger would not have made it far past
the front entrance without being stopped by security, or even been able to
enter the building at all (access cards, etc.) Maybe it's a cultural
difference, or does the tech industry just have a much higher concern for
securing offices?

~~~
donatj
I’m curious where you live? I live in Minneapolis and basically all the places
I’ve worked, as well as visiting friends working a stranger could walk
directly into the building. Especially multi-business centers. At one of the
places they might have been asked if they needed help, but they wouldn’t be
stopped, the receptionist would have just assumed they knew where they were
going.

I mean certainly __major __business like BestBuy Corporate and Target
Corporate have security, but most small to medium don’t.

~~~
robrtsql
Really? I've worked and seen a few places in Minneapolis and they all had
pretty decent security.

Granted, only the 'office' areas were secured--every building, which was
shared by multiple offices--had a common area which was not secured at all.

~~~
protomyth
Minneapolis has a fair amount of those group office buildings that provide
security as part of rent.

------
Markoff
how can 33 people out of 70 for in 3fl building? why not jump out of window,
even top floor must be survivable. hard to understand unless they were
attacked directly with knife or he made some kind of flamethrower

------
fisherwithac
For those who are able to and want to help, there's a GoFundMe campaign right
now to help the studio recover [0]. There isn't much of an explanation of what
the money will go towards, but it's better than doing nothing IMO.

I'm not a huge consumer of anime/manga, but some of my favorites (namely,
Nichijou and Full Metal Panic) have come from this studio. I'm also aware that
the industry as a whole is considered to be in a bad state right now, with
this event certainly not helping things.

My condolences to those effected by this. I do hope, though, that this serves
as a springboard for better things to come for the industry.

[0] - [https://www.gofundme.com/help-kyoani-
heal](https://www.gofundme.com/help-kyoani-heal)

~~~
dangThatSucks
Do we know if the (apparently Texan) organizer of that fundraiser is
affiliated with the victims in any way, or is credible, or might that be a
scam?

~~~
t0astbread
Sentai Filmworks is a reseller of KyoAni works (amongst others) in the west.
They linked to this campaign from their official Twitter account:
[https://mobile.twitter.com/SentaiFilmworks/status/1151726531...](https://mobile.twitter.com/SentaiFilmworks/status/1151726531896643584)

------
aaron695
This wasn't arson, it was an attack. Some news reports the fuel was used on
people. Sounds so far like mental illness, so perhaps 'attack'

Seems probably 30 dead.

~~~
Razengan
Is "arson" generally not considered a targeted attack?

~~~
Cthulhu_
I can imagine not, that is, if you set fire to a car it's arson, if you set
fire to a car with someone in it it's attempted murder.

------
tus88
I wish Japan and most of East Asia did more to recognize and tackle mental
health. And overwork. And a lot of things.

~~~
CryptoPunk
Major US cities are overrun by drug addicts suffering from severe mental
illnesses, with literally thousands dying from overdoses every year.

~~~
gregallan
This is pure whataboutism. The parent comment said nothing about the US to
even imply there isn’t also a problem there.

~~~
Jach
On the contrary, the GP is a (light) instance of the chinese robber fallacy.
[https://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/03/08/the-chinese-
robber...](https://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/03/08/the-chinese-robber-
fallacy/) They're using "a generic problem to attack a specific person or
group, even though other groups have the problem just as much (or even more
so)" and should be called out on it.

~~~
danielg6
Super light

------
bazooka_penguin
This is why businesses need strict security. You never know what kind of
nutjob is going to just try and waltz right in. I assume Japan's culture
around workplace security is a little different, since they're statistically
safer than most countries, but I wouldnt leave anything to chance.

~~~
marcinzm
I presume that you avoid all cars and locations in the vicinity of cars due to
their much higher risk of causing you injury than a crazy at your office in
Japan. After all, you don't want to leave anything to chance do you?

~~~
bazooka_penguin
What's the point of responding with idiotic rhetoric that only presents two
extremes of virtually no security or hermit lifestyle. This guy reportedly had
enough time to lock up their fire exits and then toss gasoline around. AND was
waiting to toss gasoline on people trying to flee out the main exit where he
was waiting for them. A couple of security guards on duty and a camera system
could have prevented the murder of over 30 people. I can buy a set of 5
cameras and a pc to operate a camera network for under $1000, surely an
reputable business can afford a few guards and a security system a little more
sophisticated than consumer cameras so some psycho doesnt go around blocking
all of the safe exits to your building and still have time to prepare his
attack, and then stick around with gas to attack fleeing victims. So spare me
the braindead, false dichotomy because you felt like being a smartass. When
someone tells you to always check your stove twice before you go out do you
respond "HURR JUST STAY HOME AND WATCH YER STOVE ALL DAY"? Moron.

