
Most People With Addiction Grow Out of It (2014) - dedalus
https://psmag.com/social-justice/people-addiction-simply-grow-widely-denied-91605
======
thrownaway954
I think articles like this are dangerous to us addicts cause it solidifies the
"this is just a phase" mentality that many of us have. They sampled 42,000
people, but how many others had to die, have their lives ruined, or ever
worst, hurt someone they loved or end up in prison because of their addiction?

YES I'm sure some of us can quit on our own or can "grow out" of our addiction
if we don't end up dead or in jail first. I'm sure there cancer patients out
there who are cured and have never had a single treatment, but you can bet
that most people with cancer get some sort of treatment and help.

Bottom line is, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO AT IT ALONE. There is help available, so
why not use it? AA, NA, HA ,CA, Wellbriety, going to therapy, medical
professional, it's all there to help so use it. You doesn't HAVE to take 15
years to "grow out" of alcoholism if you can get the support you need to help
you quit sooner.

Tonight I'm speaking at a DETOX and I suggest that they go through the 60 day
RIT program that it offers so they have a better chance of beating their
addiction. Again, please don't wait to get help. You don't have to fight this
battle alone.

~~~
avar
You're 100% right that people shouldn't have an attitude of "this harmful part
of my life will fix itself". Although I don't think just observing that you'll
likely "grow out" of it makes the article dangerous. People also tend to grow
out of violent behavior (how many hyper-violent 20 v.s. 80 year olds are
there?). That doesn't mean it's not harmful behavior when you're younger, or
that it doesn't need to be addressed at that point.

But it's just as dangerous to propose that simply because you have issues in
your life that some religiously-motivated program like AA is the way to go.

We should provide people with help that's scientifically developed and proved
to be effective, and AA and its various sister programs are neither of those.
They're just "get the drunks to worship god instead" programs. In recent years
they've gained the thin veneer of talking about a "higher power" instead of
"god", without becoming any more scientific or empirically-supported as a
result.

If you have a problem with addiction start by talking to your physician, not a
church group.

~~~
eeeeeeeeeeeee
I’m agnostic and probably about as liberal as they come. My brother is atheist
and getting and staying sober through AA. The “god” can be anything you want
it to be, as it is for him.

That is not to say that AA is for everyone, but this advice to just “talk to a
physician” as if that is the only fix is absurd. Look at how many people are
hooked on opioids after “talking to their physician.”

~~~
0xcde4c3db
I never understood the "god can be anything you want" line. Five of the steps
involve accepting "god" as an authority over your life, including "His will
for us" and the power to "remove all these defects of character". It reminds
me of Henry Ford's infamous "any customer can have a car painted any color
that he wants so long as it is black"; i.e. you can have any god you want, as
long as it's at least a metaphor for a personal god that deserves authority
over your decisions and well-being. Your brother might have no problem with
that sense of authority, but plenty of atheists do (e.g. believe that if
Yahweh existed, He would be a tyrant undeserving of worship).

~~~
ZeroFries
You can reduce those to the authority of the laws of physics, if you want. Try
defying the authority of gravity, for example. Then, have faith that the laws
of physics will work in such a way that your brain will be altered and
addiction no longer so strong.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
How does physics "remove all these defects of character"?

~~~
avar
It's accepted physics that all defects of character will be removed at the
heat death of the universe :)

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Removed, or frozen in perpetuity?

------
passing_through
I was addicted to computer games for a while. I never even really liked
gaming, but it was a way to tune out the horrible life at home. Eventually, I
kind of trained myself to like games; it's really weird too, thinking back I
was the kid who liked long-term gratification over short-term, but eventually
gaming changed me.

After I moved out, it was an anchor of sorts and I started playing even more.
By this point, my gaming habits definitely matched up with the definition of
addiction - at one point, I even went ~2 days without sleeping and eating.

The big change for me was getting a job. I couldn't fuck this up (considering
I had already flunked out of university, getting a job in my dream field was a
miracle), so I quit computer games. I've "relapsed" a few times since and
every single time it has been horrible. It consumes me completely. I have now
also decided to basically cut out any easy-to-consume entertainment out of my
life. I spend my free time on books, nature and sports.

Looking back, it's the experience of totally fucking up my life through
addiction that has helped me beat my addiction.

~~~
superpermutat0r
I was extremely desparate when I realized I could no longer pay for my World
of Warcraft subscription when I was a kid. To the point of trying to scam
people to pay for my account, trying credit card number generators and all
sorts of silly things.

I would wake up early in the morning, play the game until someone mentioned I
should eat, I would eat, then continue playing, until someone mentioned I
should eat, I'd continue playing until late at night, go to sleep and
continue.

I was extremely addicted and attached to the game. I dreamt about it, I
thought about it, fantasized about it.

1 year passed, I started 8th grade and all of a sudden WoW and other computer
games were extremely boring. I could play them for about 30 minutes and would
just get fed up with any game.

I was like that for years, and just recently I started Super Meat Boy and it
had the same addictive fulfilling qualities that I felt when I was a kid, and
I could spend hours on it. I completed the game, switched to playing others,
but still couldn't get addicted to anything.

I rarely play games now. Max 8 hours total playtime per year.

~~~
r3bl
> I dreamt about it

I would not believe that this was possible if the same thing didn't happen to
me. Also about World of Warcraft. Just once.

The next day I got bored killing creatures on some side quest, a thought came
through my mind ("what am I doing with my life?"), and I've never looked back.

~~~
hycaria
Dreams are some mixup of things that happened during the day. No need to read
too much into them. I've dreamt of work, people, hobbies including computer
games and cherished activities not practised for years at the time of the
dream. Dreaming of "stuff that happened", basically.

~~~
Jeff_Brown
Dreaming of stuff that happened can be useful if you take it seriously. I
often visit experiences in sleep which, when they happened, had led me to say
to myself, "I should think about that, figure out what I could have done
differently, what might have been going through their heads."

Evolution doesn't tend to waste things. As long as some processing is
happening, it might as well be put to good use.

------
ChuckMeOut
Not sure how to feel about this article. I'm about turn 28 and at various
times in my past I have been addicted to cigarettes, methamphetamine,
ketamine, heroin and tramadol.

I'm currently clean, however I feel like I am always just one small slip away
from sinking into the abyss, it takes a concentrated effort almost every day
to avoid this abyss, I certainly don't feel like I'm growing out of it. I am
happily married and have a high paying job that I love, I'm generally really
quite happy about life but still feel the darkness calling.

~~~
AllegedAlec
Same here. 28, and I've been trying to get rid of my cigarette habit for 5 of
the 10 years that I've been smoking. I've quite often made it to the 2 month
mark, but whenever something bad happens in my life, it's becomes way too
tempting to fall back in to old patterns and just have one cigarette. And then
another one, and then I might as well buy a pack...

~~~
ChuckMeOut
Honestly cigarettes were probably the hardest for me to quit, the only way I
finally managed to get beyond that initial climb was a close family member was
diagnosed with lung cancer and died shortly after, this was enough of a shock
to carry me through the hardest stage.

~~~
AllegedAlec
Yeah, it was the same for my dad; he quit smoking after smoking for 35 years
(since his 12th!) after his doctor told him his lung function was dangerously
low and he wouldn't last more then 15 years unless he quit.

------
dagaci
Addiction should not be seen as abnormal, it is actually extremely normal.
Humans and all other animals need to actually addict to activities as this is
part of the survival mechanics needed to perpetuate the species.

However this addiction function exists at 'lower' level than the intellect,
which is why its so hard for the higher function (the tiny conscious part) of
the brain to stop an unwanted addiction.

You grow out of addiction when the lower level brain decides that your
addiction is not actually required for you to get food or sex.

You can accelerate removing an unwanted addiction by paying very close
attention to the mechanics of the activity and by simply introducing new
activities especially if those activities are completed with food or sex.

~~~
etaerc
I also believe addictions are a normal thing. But it's still a complex topic.
E.g. what if food or sex are your addiction?

~~~
afiori
food and sex are two between others deep motivation, one of which is
socialization.

as a weak example mice in lab choose socialization over drugs often.

------
mac_was
In my opinion this article is dangerous as not all prople grow out of their
addictions, as we can see on the streets, or we cannot when it is hidden in
houses, when parents abuse themselves and their kids when drinking alcohol.
This article might suggest, ok I might be addicted but Ill grow out of it. So
people dont want go for treatments. I havent got contact with my father
anymore but his 50 now and Im fairly certain he did not stop drinking, as his
dad until he died.

Edit. Writing from my phone

~~~
kranner
The article is not making the claim that everyone recovers from addiction on
their own. It is refuting the opposite claim: that nobody recovers from
addiction on their own.

~~~
BorRagnarok
The title is very misleading though. I would argue more people die from
addiction than grow out of it.

~~~
usrusr
A large fraction of western middle class youth goes through a phase of
rebellious experimentation with recreational drug use almost every one of them
eventually grows or of it, either when they settle into jobs or after a long
phase of stable, functional use that slowly becomes more sporadical than
regular.

Sure, if you count in as "died from addiction" everybody who was essentially
taken by old age, just earlier than what might have happened with a healthier
lifestyle, then the majority turns again. But those numbers never really make
sense, except for constructing alarmism. Everybody who merely "lost years" (as
opposed to something closer to the cliche of overdosing on a public toilet)
would have also lost years to burgers, pollution, sedentiarism and stress.
Which one was the killer?

~~~
_Schizotypy
Dying from old age is a misnomer. Nobody dies from simply being old, something
has to go wrong biochemically

------
warent
It's an interesting hypothesis but they lost me at the part about ADHD. I
abused substances when I was younger until eventually I learned healthy,
constructive coping mechanisms and now I've been happily sober for years.
That's an example of maturity helping someone out of addiction.

Contrast that will ADD/ADHD. I'm not convinced it has anything to do with
maturity or a lack thereof. Sure, mindfulness meditation helps quite a bit.
But I think you can be mature, self sufficient, polite, etc, and yet still
have ADHD, or immature, etc. and have ADHD. Not to say I'm a shining beacon of
perfection with no room for self improvement, but the point is there's little
to no correlation there.

~~~
afiori
> Contrast that will ADD/ADHD. I'm not convinced it has anything to do with
> maturity or a lack thereof. Sure, mindfulness meditation helps quite a bit.
> But I think you can be mature, self sufficient, polite, etc, and yet still
> have ADHD, or immature, etc. and have ADHD.

There is a very good video about 30 essential things parents should know about
ADHD

[https://youtu.be/YSfCdBBqNXY](https://youtu.be/YSfCdBBqNXY)

One of them is that when unmedicated on average a person with ADHD has the
maturity of someone 2/3 of its age.

Its is just an average, but is relevant to think how different a 14 years old
and a 21 years old are (or 20 and 30).

~~~
smt88
Everything I've ever learned about biology suggests the 2/3 rule is nonsense.
Neither biological age nor maturity are linear, and they vary wildly from
person to person.

------
Illli1l1iIli1I
This headline (and note article is from 2014) is... not ideal. I think I take
the most issue with "simply" \-- as if recovering from any addiction is simple
in any way.

First off, I am 100% sure some people do "simply" grow out of their addiction.
But what does that mean? What life changes happened during that period of
growth that caused addiction to be a more manageable personal issue?

For me, most recently at least, it was when I simply could not find a vein
anymore. I had always had poor vein access and after close to 5 years of
IV'ing black tar heroin, I had more abscesses than I had available veins.
Muscling tar is not pleasant, often leads to an abscesses at the injection
site, and has poor bioavailability, but if you are sick and have spent 20
minutes poking yourself at least 20 times (hopefully going through 2-3
syringes in the process as well, and having to deal with backloading your
dose), the option becomes more appealing. All of this poking around looking
for a flash leads to abscesses as well.

With a lifetime of poor vein access, I was doing all the things they did to me
in the hospital when I needed an IV: heated blankets, hydration, using alcohol
swabs, tourniquets, at least attempting to rotate injection sites, and so on.
When I discovered my hands and feet had slightly easier access, I was elated,
but that only lasted a couple years, and it really, really, really hurts to
miss in your hands and feet.

Is that what they mean by "simply growing out of it"? If so, I feel kind of
insulted.

Eventually, after simply not being able to get high via IV anymore unless I
got lucky, I did one last big detox (probably at least my 20th, including 2
in-patient ones), went back to my suboxone doctor, and have been stable on a
low-ish dose of the sublingual suboxone for several years now.

In my recovery I have been to hundreds of NA/AA meetings and volunteered with
harm reduction groups and this concept of "I simply grew out of it" is not a
common theme. What is much more common are things like 1) I couldn't stand
sleeping outside anymore, 2) I got pregnant, 3) I ran out of vein access, 4) I
had a real opportunity to stop using and took it (like rehab or strong social
support or job support), 5) I was sick and tired of feeling sick and tired,
and so on.

Just to be sure, I am not saying "simply growing out of addiction" via
"natural recovery" \-- as the article discusses -- is not a thing. It's just
not enough of a thing to warrant much attention on. A sincere congrats to the
people who grow out of it (and, like I said, I'd like to hear more about what
that growth process looked like), now let's help the millions of others who
haven't.

~~~
fromthestart
I appreciate your anecdote. I have no experience with heroin, but I imagine
softer drugs with relatively mild or non existent withdrawal symptoms carry
the kind of addiction kind you can grow out of. Say, pot, or various
amphetamines.

~~~
throwaway8879
It's so difficult to answer this as everyone's experience will be different. I
do know that there were certain periods of my life where I didn't smoke pot
because I was just very active with something or the other and did not want to
be lazy. But I was probably using an upper during that time to "be
productive".

There's also got to be some kind of chemical/medical aspect to how a certain
substance affects you individually, apart from how it affects everyone else. I
was more of a cafeteria drug user and got bored really quickly and the only
objective was to be high(or low), not necessarily an obsession with one kind
of drug. For instance, heroin withdrawals were never stereotypical for me. I'd
always thought of it as a high wearing off, and would fix it with any other
drug that was available, it didn't strictly have to be heroin.

------
fromthestart
Makes sense. Drugs get boring. The euphoria fades. Then it becomes normal. And
if chronic use continues, one eventually finds oneself, quite suddenly, in the
grips of dependency. But then the appeal finally fades, too, when it becomes
clear that the highs of yore that you still chase are gone forever - and
suddenly it is worthwhile to brave the throes of a tapered withdrawal, or quit
cold turkey, depending on the flavor of the poison.

But the cravings probably won't go away forever. The ever seductive siren of
intoxication will whisper it's sweet songs into your ear, beckoning with
lustful reveries of that familiar bliss that you once knew, nearer, louder in
strife. Alas, with time, the voice softens, should you have the will to resist
recurring temptations in the meanwhile.

~~~
1000units
Or you "upgrade" to smack.

------
throwaway8879
Can't read the article for some reason. In any case, I somewhat agree with the
title. Obviously it isn't going to be the case for every addict. Using/abusing
just seems off-putting after a while, and is a major turn-off. I'm not sure
how much this has to do with boredom, or a sense of "I'm clean now, addicts
are losers, I'm not a loser any longer".

In my case, it was just a massive waste of a decade for little to no gain
other than some momentary feelings of almost-euphoria. It's just so
superficial and a kind of escapism, at least was for me.

Anyway, addiction is a lot more complex for generalizations, obviously. I met
an older gentleman in rehab who was there for the 50-something time. That kind
of put things in perspective for me.

------
frereubu
This matches my personal experience with a variety of drugs, although I
stopped short of hard opiates. A large proportion of people who took drugs
with me when I was younger got out before things got nasty. Which isn't to say
everyone - there was one guy in particular who got into cheap speed and the
attendant unhealthy lifestyle so much that his skin turned yellow. But a three
factors that I don't see mentioned in the article, which anecdotally seemed to
predict quite a bit of the difference, were a supportive family environment,
insight into the nature of your drug use, and money. Supportive families
helped because when people felt they were doing too much they could drop out
of that scene, head home and dry out for a few months. Insight was important
because it gave perspective on where they stood in regards to how their drug
use was impacting their lives, and before it got really heavy they could head
home. Money - enough spare cash to get home and families with enough to
support the returning kid - made this kind of flexibility possible. If you
don't have many or any of those three things, it becomes much more difficult
to make the decision to stop early enough - although even if you have all
three it doesn't guarantee anything. I doubt I would have found drug use such
a positive experience if I hadn't had that safety net.

------
csunbird
I would say people do not grow out of it, as a previous video game addict
(skipping school, classes etc, the whole nine miles), the conditions that
creates and fuels the addiction itself (be it being asocial, home or money
problems) simply vanishes as the time goes on. If it does not vanish, the
addiction continues, and if they arise again, the addict relapses.

This is based on my experience.

Of course, you can not expect that many years of addiction to simply not have
any residual effects, for example I still do play video games a lot but I
can't say I'm addicted to the point of skipping my job or destroying my whole
life. In my case, it is not that dangerous to play video games but for a
substance addict, it gets extremely dangerous and they surely struggle harder
than I do.

I think, instead of trying to cure the addiction first, the underlying cause
of the addiction itself should be cured. After that, getting over the
addiction becomes easier.

Edit: I see comments on people concerned of addicts treating their problems as
a phase. It is not a phase, you need to get the bottom of the problem first.
It can get extremely hard to fix the underlying problem, especially if you do
not get any help, so do not treat the addiction as a phase, but treat it as a
symptom of a much bigger problem and fix the problem first while treating your
addiction.

------
sonnyblarney
Really an amazing insight perhaps not considered enough. But this:

"moving from a less structured environment like college into a more
constraining one like nine-to-five employment, "

is telling.

I knew people in SF who just 'moved away' and the change in setting, the lack
of immediate access to 'the party lifestyle' and all it entails, means they
just 'shifted gears' and cleaned up immediately.

So I'm not sure if the 'aging out' due to brain developments is entirely the
story here, rather than perhaps time allows for people to find other patterns
of lifestyle.

Though I do think the point about '18 years old' is quite powerful - keeping
teens away from bad stuff might seem to be quite a good idea.

... that said, there could be other factors at play: kids from 'good,
conscientious families' simply may not be quite as likely to need to try alt
things, and less likely to get caught up later in life anyhow. There'd seem to
be all sorts of other correlating factors there, however valid the point may
be unto it's own.

------
interdiction
I have only one true addiction, and it is coffee.

Most “addictions” seem to be advanced exercises in bullshit artistry, from my
perspective. But, the one that really throws me is compulsive gambling. This
is the line where I draw clear distinction between chemical dependence, and...
something else.

Compulsive gambling definitely isn’t bullshit. You can sense that it’s a very
powerful, real habit that people lose control over.

Most other non-substance oriented addictions I tend to ignore, and gambling is
my bellwether for nonsense.

Cigarettes, for example, are mostly nonsense. The nicotine in tobacco is such
a mildly addicting component, that a deeper truth sits behind it: people who
refuse to drop cigarettes are trying to dominate a negotiation, regarding
personal choices. They want the freedom to make bad choices.

Cigarettes are easy to quit. The chemical dependence is pathetically tame. The
people that insist on retaining the habit are really engaging in social
signaling. They learned this aspect of power and status as teenagers, and this
alone puts cigarettes in a station of nostalgia classified as comparable to
first cars, first kisses and favorite music artists. That’s why people don’t
quit.

Other substances are tougher, for sure, but chemical dependence is only part
of the story. Controlling obsession is an entirely different skill. It’s nit
just about willpower, but also about deepley held beliefs and self perception.

It’s not a new concept. It predates modern psychology with tales like Samson
and Delilah and deriving strength from a lack of haircuts, or Dumbo’s magic
feather. Superstition isn’t just about magical thinking, and can take root in
daily rituals and bahvior.

That’s probably why people might seem to grow out of it sooner or later. At
some point, life interrupts and breaks the spell, one way or another.

~~~
palimpsests
This model of addiction (chemical dependency + wanting the freedom to make bad
choices) is not at all backed up by modern research, and reads like it is
severely lacking in compassion and empathy for people who suffer from
addictions - I feel sad hearing you call these people "bullshit artists" and
labeling something that so powerfully controls and hurts millions of people
(e.g. nicotine) "pathetic".

Is it up to you to dictate what other people's experiences are? If someone has
a crippling addiction to sex (a non-substance oriented addiction), do you
believe that you can tell them that what they are saying is "nonsense" and
that it actually isn't an addiction, and that they just need to "have more
willpower". How is that in any way helpful?

If you are open to hearing about what the medical, psychotherapeutic, and
academic communities have been learning and working on in the past few decades
around addiction research and treatment, A good place to start is the work of
Dr. Gabor Maté:
[https://drgabormate.com/topic/addiction/](https://drgabormate.com/topic/addiction/).

------
Animats
I didn't think it was "widely denied". I thought this was well known.

There is a notable exception - smoking.

~~~
throwaway8879
In my personal experience, cigarettes were far more difficult for me to quit
than opiates/meth/etc or even alcohol. They are very sneaky that way.

~~~
Nasrudith
Of course have you ever tried to get an alcohol or meth break at work? You get
fired. (Granted if legitimate medical amphetamines or opiates they let you
take the pill.)

In all seriousness smoking has more "habit/ritual" components to it given oral
fixation - in addition to the chemical aspect.

------
samirm
Aren't most people addicted to sugar and a lot also addicted to coffee? Pretty
sure they don't "grow out" of those...

Does this data take into account all those who died and therefore didn't "grow
out"?

I think the biggest issue with the colloquial idea of addiction is that most
people don't realize it's a lot more dependent on social circumstance than it
is on the "reward circuitry". People don't become addicts because of any
certain drug or mechanism, they do so because they're trying to "deal" with
some sort of social issue.

------
WebDanube
Can confirm anecdotally. Used to be _super addicted_ to the online MOBA game,
"DotA 2" back when I was in college. Stopped playing it after moving out from
home (deleted my Steam account, in fact), and I haven't touched the game ever
since. Guess my prefrontal cortex wrestled back control away from my "monkey
brain." [0]

[0][https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-
procrasti...](https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-
procrastinate.html)

------
dang
Discussed at the time:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8396375](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8396375)

------
jayalpha
Could be a quote from Pele Stanton [https://peele.net](https://peele.net)

------
Ice_cream_suit
Some of us die.

------
LifeLiverTransp
So - build a monastry where free drugs are provided for simple work? Wait till
the addicted get bored?

