
Walking While Black - hownottowrite
https://lithub.com/walking-while-black/
======
superkuh
This was a wonderfully written piece and a lot of it rings true to me even as
a white as you can be person in a smallish state university town in the
midwest. But maybe being 6'2" with a big unkempt hobo beard is almost as scary
as being black.

I too love walking the streets at night. And I too have to not be myself and
behave in very conscious ways to avoid being hassled and detained by the
police. Police just assume that if you're out at night you are a criminal.

So much of his descriptions of having to learn to dress a certain way, behave
a certain way, and literally go out of my way to avoid scaring people rings
true. I get detained by the police a handful of times per year just for
walking or being in places at times that most people aren't. I particularly
get the police called on me if I walk through in rich neighborhoods. I've had
firearms pulled on me just for photographing trees in a public park (at
night).

I tried to take up jogging for half a year but I quit and bought a bike after
being stopped by police for being suspicious three times in as many months.
Apparently jogging while not wearing a joggers uniform means I'm up to no
good. No non-criminal jogs in cargo pants and a t-shirt. And that was in the
day time. I wouldn't even consider trying it at night.

I'm not trying to marginalize his message that skin color is the cause. But
it's certainly not the only cause. The root of the problem lies with the
police, and society, villifying anyone who isn't diurnal.

~~~
neor
Sometimes it really is a thin line.

In my country (The Netherlands) police sometimes check all cars passing a
temporary checkpoint. They check if you have open fines, paid your taxes etc.
When really expensive cars pass those checkpoints they verify that the owner
actually has a job to afford cars like these and if the owner doesn't they can
impound the car on suspicion of being paid with criminal money.

Statistics have shown that the highest "risk" group of those crime paid cars
is with young foreign male drivers.

A few years ago a (black) rap artist was stopped at the side of the road by
police and they basically admitted that this was racial profiling.

The artist made some fuss about it on social media, and it appeared in all
news broadcasts and talk shows. People were expecting some big commotion about
it; but it turns out that the majority of people actually approved of this
method.

It wasn't racism at work here, it was statistics and people were fine with it.
It is a thin line though, because to the people on the wrong end of the
statistics it really can feel like racism. So where should police draw the
line?

~~~
braythwayt

      A few years ago a (black) rap artist was stopped at the side of the
      road by police and they basically admitted that this was racial
      profiling.
    
      The artist made some fuss about it on social media, and it appeared
      in all news broadcasts and talk shows. People were expecting some
      big commotion about it; but it turns out that the majority of people
      actually approved of this method.
    
      It wasn't racism at work here, it was statistics and people were
      fine with it.
    
    

Your conclusion is incorrect. Yes it is racism, and furthermore, the majority
of people in a society being fine with it is not only irrelevant as to whether
it's racism, it is what makes it structural racism. Something that everyone is
fine with never seems questionable to members of the set of people who think
it's fine.

Now let's explain why it being statistics doesn't mean it can't be racism. I
have used this analogy before:

[http://braythwayt.com/2016/03/30/racism-is-
injustice.html](http://braythwayt.com/2016/03/30/racism-is-injustice.html)

A woman is murdered in her home. Statistics tell us that when a woman is
murdered in her home, it is nearly always her partner. So, why don't we merely
arrest the partner and march them off to jail without gathering evidence,
following pesky rules about having a lawyer involved, or examining the burden
of proof?

Statistics, one might say, reverse the burden of proof. Why isn't it up to the
partner to prove that they're innocent?

We can A/B test this application of statistics: Let's say that 9/10 times, the
partner did it. In test A, we lock 100 partners up without trial. Presto, we
have the right person in prison 90 times, and have an innocent person in
prison 10 times, but being right 90% of the time feels pretty good, and we
saved a lot of money and bother. Everybody who isn't the partner of a murdered
woman feels pretty good about test A.

In test B, we arrest 100 partners, but then we gather evidence and have
trials, even though "everybody knows the partner did it." Good news! Of the
ten partners in test B who didn't do it, nine are set free. One, alas, is
wrongfully imprisoned for a crime the did not commit. But one wrongfully
imprisoned person is better than ten, right?

Well, it's not so simple. Of the 90 people who did do it in test B, the
evidence wasn't always solid. So in ten cases, they cut a deal for a reduced
sentence. In six cases, they "beat the rap in court" and were also set free,
despite having done it. Three cases didn't even make it to court for some
technicality or other.

So test B is much better for the case where someone is innocent: There is only
one person wrongfully imprisoned, instead of ten. But it's worse for the case
where someone is guilty. Instead of ninety guilty people receiving the full
punishment, Only 71 receive the full punishment. Then get a reduced
punishment, and nine guilty people walk free!

In pure, bloodless statistics, A is better than B. A is right 90% of the time,
B is only right 80% of the time. But if we want to talk about _justice_ , B is
better than A. In terms of justice, one person wrongfully imprisoned is worse
than 100 guilty people set free. False positives are abhorrent to a just
society, and false negatives (not to mention costly trials) are the price
society is willing to pay to ensure justice.

So back to statistics and stopping cars. If statistics tell you that black men
are more likely to be illegal immigrants, or have unpaid fines, or whatever,
and you use that to stop every black man driving a car, but you don't stop
white men, that is unjust for the same reason as locking up the partners
without trial.

You have imposed a consequence--not being able to drive without being stopped
by police--on some number of innocent black men--because they belong to a
class of people who statistically are more likely to have done something
wrong.

One can argue that being stopped is not the same thing as being jailed without
trial. But it is. When travelling, you might be asked if you have ever been
detained by police. Same when applying for a job. In some countries (cough,
USA, cough) this perspective on statistics starts with stopping cars, and ends
in gunfire.

Even in civilised countries, people reason that if it's ok for the police to
stop every black man because black men have statistically committed more
crimes, it is ok to not rent to black men, or not employ black men. And if
asked, they will say, "I'm not a racist, I'm a statistician.". Law enforcement
choices send a strong message about "what everyone thinks is ok."

At some point, though, it comes down to justice. Justice is not imposing
consequences upon someone without actual, inspectable evidence. Injustice is
imposing consequences upon someone because somebody else who has something in
common with them broke the law.

And racism is using statistics to impose injustice on someone because of their
race. It's that simple.

~~~
diddid
The partners are always the first SUSPECT and the police do their due
diligence to RULE THEM OUT. Even on the 1/10 where the weren't the murderer,
the police still intrude on them to try to find the truth. Being a SUSPECT !=
SENT TO JAIL. The rapper in the story was a SUSPECT, they weren't SENT TO JAIL
which makes your analogy not an analogy at all, because well, they aren't
anologous. If anything I feel your arguement argues for pulling the rap artist
over.

~~~
braythwayt
Ah, you are correct that there is a missing element to the analogy, and this
is it:

The woman lies dead in the murder case. When the rapper was pulled over, there
was no case of a Ferrari stolen by a dark-skinned man. The police were not
acting on a tip that the rapper was smuggling narcotics in his car. They
stopped him for driving while black.

If we want to add the missing link, we then say that the police, knowing the
statistics of men who assault and/or murder their partners, stop men at random
in society and ask them to provide evidence that their partners are safe and
sound.

When put that way, the case is even stronger against stopping the rapper on a
"fishing expedition." If men were stopped at random to check whether they had
assaulted their partners, nobody would be shouting that "SUSPECT != SENT TO
JAIL."

Society would not stand for the notion that all men are suspect for the
actions of a few, whether or not the statistics show that men are
disproportionally more likely to kill their partners than women, or that the
leading cause of violent death amongst women is men.

The very notion of all men being permanent suspects of a crime would rightly
be considered abhorrent. And so it is here with people of colour.

~~~
diddid
I also think your explanation here isn't exactly what happened, at least from
what I gathered. What I read it as whas "We stop all people in expensive cars
at this checkpoint and validate their income." So society wasn't ok
discriminating against him because he was black, they were ok discriminating
against him because he was in a nice car.

~~~
braythwayt
Stopping all cars is absolutely a different thing. Of course, if it only
happens in certain neighbourhoods, one might pause, but here in Toronto, for
example, we have drinking-and-driving sweeps where the police set up
checkpoints and stop all cars regardless of occupant or car.

That seems reasonable.

Of course, here in Toronto they also like to "card" people in certain
neighbourhoods of certain colours, and there is an ongoing set of protests
against how they choose to implement this practice.

But I am personally ok with a certain amount of checkpointing.

------
the_greyd
I would identify as how the author describes, someone who's slightly nervous
at the sight of a black male walking towards him at night. I try to suppress
this feeling, and try to act normal, at which point I'm really overthinking.
And I'm sorry. I am sorry that this has happened to you and to black people in
general, how as a society we have fucked up so much. I am suddenly reminded of
the book "The Lathe of Heaven", in which when the protagonist wishes a world
without racism, and everyone turns grey-skinned. I wish there were immediate
solutions, and a way to not let this drag on for generations.

~~~
acjohnson55
Thank you for saying this.

The fact is, as a black male, I sometimes feel prejudice against black males
while walking at night. And I'm someone who is affected by that very same
prejudice. I see all the same media as anyone else, which constantly portrays
black men as a menace to society.

Is a random black man actually more dangerous than a non-black man, in real
life? I have my doubts. But for argument's sake, let's say it's true to a
slight extent. That still means a given black man bares very little actual
risk. Yet, what sort of psychological damage is done to us by being repeatedly
subject to this treatment? It's an invisible tax we pay. I've been fortunate
my whole life for so many reasons, but I have my own stories, like most other
black men I know.

I feel other types of prejudice too. I think step one is knowing this, step
two is empathizing, and step three is advocating.

~~~
simonh
In the area where I live there aren't very many coloured people. When I
(rarely) walk at night I find myself estimating the social category of people.
If I see a young man in sweat pants and a baseball cap, I think 'possible
Chav' (low class white person here in the UK) and I'm wary. Low income young
men are more likely to be a possible source of trouble.

I think in the UK and US since black people are far more likely to be in a low
income category than not, race becomes a proxy for that.

Funnily enough, when I see a black person in the street at night here I'm more
likely to have a positive attitude. Most of the coloured people living round
here do so because they are quite successful. Also because there aren't many
black people, such a person is perhaps more likely to feel out of place or
potentially feel threatened or need help.

~~~
faitswulff
> aren't very many coloured people

Highly recommend using "people of colour," instead.

~~~
simonh
Fair enough, but that's more of an Americanism. It's not really used here in
the UK.

~~~
twic
It's pretty unusual to say "coloured people" here in the UK, too. I usually
phrase it something like "people who aren't white", clumsy though that is.

------
crispinb
I've spent time in remote Australian communities, where it's quite common to
be peppered with 'white cunt' imprecations if out at night, especially
anywhere near the canteen (bar). I found that quite confronting (occasionally
frightening) in the moment, but it didn't have a big effect -- the people
concerned were usually drunk and in a mess (you'll know what I mean if you've
been in such places), I was a kind of foreigner (outback communities are not
really 'Australia' in anything other than an bureaucratic sense), and clearly
representative (whether fairly or not) of an oppressor. And, importantly, I
could leave. A few hours drive, and I'm back in a nation where I'm 'the norm',
and the indigenous Australian would be the outsider.

I'm trying to imagine the generalised life trauma that might ensue were I
subject to this kind of suspicion and/or hatred all the time, in my own
country (I do realise the author of the piece wasn't from the US). Many of
course will rise above it more-or-less unscathed, but exceptional individuals
are a poor indicator of most people's life chances.

Australia is similar to the US in this respect. Indigenous Australians stand
little chance unless they happen to get lucky and land whatever weird
combination of genes and upbringing that creates exceptions. In some ways it's
worse here, as denial about causes is very close to universal -- there's no
real equivalent to the US North/South divide. Our whole nation is locked into
a kind of determined fluffy antebellum fantasy, where we didn't have a nation-
founding war, but just a kind of sloppy de facto displacement of savages by
imported middle-class suburbanites, regrettable certainly, but all too natural
(so inevitable).

What a total stuff-up humans have made of everything.

~~~
ImaCake
It was more like a genocide. In fact, in many parts of Eastern and Southern
Australia, it was a genocide.

>Our whole nation is locked into a kind of determined fluffy antebellum
fantasy, where we didn't have a nation-founding war, but just a kind of sloppy
de facto displacement of savages by imported middle-class suburbanites,
regrettable certainly, but all too natural (so inevitable).

It becomes very obvious whenever someone stirs up the hornet's nest. The last
I can think of was when Adam Goodes [0] tried to express his cultural ties.

0\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Goodes#Controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Goodes#Controversy)

~~~
crispinb
> _more like a genocide. In fact, in many parts of Eastern and Southern
> Australia, it was a genocide_

Certainly. Sports & genocide are Australia's top 2 talents (Tasmania must rank
among the world's most classically perfect examples of genocide).

The exact form of the stuff-up varies per domain: genocide here, ecocide there
(everywhere). But _that_ humans stuff up everything they touch seems to be a
universal. Crap species.

------
ukulele
In addition to shedding light on the author's experiences, this is also an
excellent piece of writing. It's not what normally shows in HN, but I'm glad
it did.

------
LandR
What are peoples thoughts on a guy walking behind a woman. Not intentionally,
just it's late and you end up walking up behind a woman on a darkish street.

I always feel I either need to slow right down, so i'm not closing the gap
(don't want to speed up as that might seem really dodgy..) Or just cross the
road entirely.

I feel we're in this weird place where every guy is perceived as a potential
threat, so I understand that I should cross the road or just hang right back
from her, but then that makes me feel bad because I'm not a threat to anyone
and why _should_ I have to cross the road or change my pace. I just want to
get home too.

~~~
majewsky
> I always feel I either need to slow right down, so i'm not closing the gap
> (don't want to speed up as that might seem really dodgy..) Or just cross the
> road entirely.

I usually try to overtake them very quickly, so they can see me. It helps that
I'm a very fast walker.

~~~
degenerate
I do the same. I walk quickly and as far to the side of them as I can, making
a decent amount of noise. That way they can hear my location and be less
alarmed.

------
andyjohnson0
A good but disturbing read. This just stopped me in my (white, European)
tracks:

 _" When he dropped me off and I thanked him for his help, he said, “It’s
because you were polite that we let you go. If you were acting up it would
have been different.” I nodded and said nothing."_

Even the officer who made the effort to be fair, still expected submission.

~~~
circlefavshape
Isn't that what all police expect, from everyone? Cops here in Ireland are
generally friendly, but the best path to a frictionless interaction with them
is to demonstrate you already know who's the boss, so they don't feel like
they have to demonstrate it to you

edit: Having read now the article, I take that back. You've gotta be
submissive with cops everywhere, but what this person describes is pretty
extreme

~~~
andyjohnson0
> Isn't that what all police expect, from everyone?

Honestly, I don't know. I've been fortunate to have never had a bad
interaction with the police, and when I have had dealings with them they've
been helpful and professional. I hope that I know enough about my rights that
I would be polite and cooperative but firm if the situation demanded it, but I
don't really know whether I could do this in practice.

I live in the UK and we supposedly have "policing by consent" [0] here, but
there is abundant evidence that the police tend to exploit the power
asymmetry. Armed police who consider themselves "the boss" are one of the
reasons I am unlikely to ever visit the US.

[0] One of the "Peelian Principles":
[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-
conse...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/policing-by-
consent/definition-of-policing-by-consent)

------
kyria
>> A lone woman walking in the middle of the night was as common a sight as
Sasquatch; moonlight pedestrianism was too dangerous for her.

Mnyeah. Also known as walking alone while female after nightfall.

I used to do that when I lived in Athens, Greece. There were two distinct
periods of it, because I went through a phase where I had a decidecly gender-
ambiguous appearance (short hair, combat boots, jeans and t-shirt) and another
when I dressed more typically feminine (think your mom when she goes to the
hairdresser's).

When I looked like I could be a boy with weird hair, I thoroughly enjoyed my
nighttime jaunts and I never felt threatened or harrassed. I walked around the
seedier parts of town, where the drug-dealing and the sex-working happened-
because that was the point, to see the night life that crawls out of the
woodwork when all the decent people are safely sleeping at home. Despite all
that I never got into trouble. I guess I looked like a bit of a freak so folks
probably assumed I was out for a fix or something. But who knows?.

When I looked my most femme, the situation was completely reversed, even
though by that time I was bored of the sleaze and stayed firmly in the better-
lit, higher-income parts of town. People would stick their heads out of moving
cars and yell obscenities ("Hey baby, are you making house calls?
MWAHAHAHAHA"). If I stopped, like to sit at a bench for a few minutes, shadows
would detach themselves from the background and slowly amble towards me,
nonchalant like, until I felt insecure enough that I had to get up and march
away. Every single man I met would consider it their obligation to hit on me,
one way or another- tell me how pretty I was (in the dark, sure) offer a ride,
offer to buy me a drink... strangely enough, nobody ever offered to buy me a
souvlaki which is what I actually was after most of the time.

Note that this was Athens city in the period between 2000 and 2005, long
before the immigrants started coming in. I'm just saying. Those people who
made it a pain in the ass for a woman to walk alone at night? Plain, middle-
class white guys in a country with a rate of violent crime among the lowest in
the world.

Well anyway. There you go. It sucks to walk while black, it sucks to walk
while female, also- or at least, while recognisably so.

~~~
faitswulff
Relevant from the article:

> (And it is not lost on me that my woman friends are those who best
> understand my plight; they have developed their own vigilance in an
> environment where they are constantly treated as targets of sexual
> attention.)

------
DoreenMichele
I can't find it, but I first read a piece about _Walking While Black_ when I
was still homeless. It was a different piece, written by a successful American
man, a lawyer iirc, whose car broke down not too far from home. So he walked
home into his upper middle class neighborhood to his own home and was harassed
by the police about it.

I got some very small taste of such treatment while homeless. Walking while
homeless is another reason for well off people to call the cops on you or for
police to generally assume you must be up to no good.

I don't know how to fix this, but I am glad to see it getting more attention
and I am glad to see such compelling writing on the subject.

~~~
cannam
[http://jay.law.ou.edu/faculty/Jmaute/Lawyering_21st_Century/...](http://jay.law.ou.edu/faculty/Jmaute/Lawyering_21st_Century/Paul%20Butler.pdf)

~~~
DoreenMichele
Thank you very very much.

------
michaelmrose
When I was growing up I remember the pride our educational system tried to
instill in us and it seems so fake in retrospect. It's impossible to be proud
of a nation that is only a land of opportunity for those who are white and
middle class.

Its not that I'm not proud to be an American so much as I don't consider
myself one I'm just a person who happens to reside here because I don't have
better options.

~~~
scarface74
Even though there is racial disparity and studies show discrimination in
housing, jobs, loans, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to say that only White
people can get ahead.

Yes I'm Black, live in the south and think I'm doing pretty well. I have quite
a few friends who would also disagree.

~~~
Pharylon
I don't think he meant there is no opportunity for black people, but that it's
truly a "land of opportunity" only for whites (more specifically white men).

Like, I grew up in a lower-middle class family and flunked out of college due
to my f-ups. I squandered a lot of opportunities through my 20s, and yet still
ended up in a position where I could teach myself to become a software
developer, and make good money today. I got a lot of extra chances, chances
that people of color don't necessarily get.

~~~
scarface74
If you look at income mobility in the US, statistically it’s not the land of
opportunity for anyone who comes from a poor household.
([https://hbr.org/2014/02/what-we-know-about-income-
mobility-d...](https://hbr.org/2014/02/what-we-know-about-income-mobility-
depends-on-how-we-define-it))

Example:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/25/the-s...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/25/the-
shocking-number-of-americans-who-cant-cover-a-400-expense/)

------
Jaruzel
North America's attitude towards people of colour, absolutely disgusts me. I
simply do not understand why that a country that was founded on on the
principles of freedom continues to act this way. The fourth amendment clearly
states that all citizens should be treated equally if suspected of a crime,
yet this simply does not happen.

Yeah, the UK (my homeland) has it's problems, but in the main, racial in-
equality is not one of it's major ones. Every country does have 'ghetto' type
areas, where things aren't as black and white as they should be (no pun
intended) but, come on America, you need to do better than this.

On the article itself:- A well written piece, and an real joy to read despite
it's content. Things I had to look up, though:

Clark's Desert Boots: [https://www.clarksusa.com/desert-
boots/c/o203](https://www.clarksusa.com/desert-boots/c/o203)

Half Pint's 'Greetings':
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2UdEasSWP0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2UdEasSWP0)

~~~
jayess
You should visit Latin America. Everyone is judged by their skin tone. The
darker you are, the more you are regarded as "the help." Parents are excited
when their children are born with light skin. My in-laws are all Mexican and I
can say that they are far more racist than any US citizen I've met.

I'm not even sure it's really "racism." But I do know that it's considered
completely normal to think of others this way.

~~~
dragonwriter
It's completely racism, dark skin color is an indication of non-European
(priamrily either African or American indigenous) ancestry, and what you
describe is a outgrowth of racism in which Europeans are favorered and the
other two groups disfavored.

------
jccalhoun
great article. Very happy to see this on Hacker news even though it isn't the
typical story found here.

------
mcherm
So the societal patterns this article describes are true, and they are not
acceptable. As a white male who lives in this society, I have one question:
_What can I do to help change this?_

~~~
faitswulff
This is a common question, but as a person of color, I would push back on it -
this question has the effect of adding more work on the backs of the
marginalized, underrepresented, and oppressed to educate you.

My personal answer would be to ask that you read, make it a habit to educate
yourself before relying on the labor of people of color, and keep an open mind
whenever you have kneejerk responses to anything racially charged.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
I acknowledge your point. And yet, I would suggest you should reconsider, for
two reasons:

First, it feels (to me, at least) like someone is genuinely wanting to be
helpful, and you throw it back in their face. Your point is valid, but you
could be turning away potential allies.

Second, you are opening the door to people thinking, "Right, we white people
will figure out how to solve all the black peoples' problems" \- with all the
paternalism that implies. I recognize that you are very much _not_ saying
that. But it seems likely that someone will take it that way, either because
of malice or just because they are bent toward taking it that way.

~~~
faitswulff
I will not reconsider telling people that they're asking victims for
additional emotional labor. The very attitude is poisonous. Instead of "take
over and solve the peoples' problems" it is, like UX research, mostly an act
of listening to people of color, not of declaring themselves the arbiters of
the solutions.

All it takes is letting go of one's ego to center the conversation around
listening to people of color instead of deciding to take control of the
conversation or of their "salvation."

------
spodek
The article and this thread explicitly call out racism. The terms race or
racism show up a dozen times (now more), but sexism only appears once.

In terms of criminal justice, men are treated significantly more harshly. The
man's sex seems at least as important as his race, but it seems we don't see
or talk about that bias as much.

Are we blind to sexism when it hurts men? How can we do anything about it if
we don't talk about it?

~~~
thex10
Perhaps the conversation you are looking for is the one about what’s known as
“intersectionality”

------
lokopodium
Not hacker, not news.

~~~
yashap
That goes for plenty of articles here, I’ve always felt that Hacker News was
for any articles that people in tech might find interesting. I thought this
was a great piece, and really well written, I’m glad it was posted here.

~~~
pthreads
I second that. Also, as a bonus it was through this article that I found out
about lithub.

~~~
rrdharan
Same. I’m also cynically surprised GitHub hasn’t sued them for trademark
infringement...

~~~
bonesss
They'd have to prove marketplace confusion -- that an ordinary consumer might
buy some LitHub services and believe them to be GitHub services.

If GitLabs changed their name to 'GitHlub', they'd be too close. But a
shipping company named GIT-HUB might be totally ok if their logos and ads were
distinct.

