
Amazon Echo Show - metaedge
https://www.amazon.com/echoshow
======
eclipxe
People are missing this:

"With the Alexa App, conversations and contacts go where you go. When you’re
away from home, use the app to make a quick call or send a message to your
family’s Echo. Alexa calling and messaging is free—to get started download the
Alexa App."

Alexa is now in the messaging and communication game.

[https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/09/amazon-enables-free-
calls-...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/09/amazon-enables-free-calls-and-
messages-on-all-echo-devices-with-alexa-calling/)

~~~
mikeash
Are we ever going to see unity between these services, or are we doomed to
have little walled-off fiefdoms forever?

A phone number works anywhere in the world, to anywhere in the world, with
anyone who has a phone. All e-mail providers work with each other. I don't
care who you're with, and I wouldn't even have to know except it's usually
part of the address. SMS works no matter which provider we both have.

It feels like we're taking huge steps backwards. Instead of sending a message
to a phone number or e-mail address, I'll use iMessage or Google Hangouts or
Skype or Slack or.... Video call? We can do FaceTime or Hangouts or Skype
or....

Will these things start interoperating with each other eventually, or are we
just doomed forever?

~~~
curun1r
FWIW, email only sorta interoperates...try running your own mail server and
unless you get all the elements of server reputation exactly right, your email
will probably not get delivered to people using the large email providers.
Thanks to spammers, we've allowed our open, interoperable standard to be much
more closed.

And SMS is also frustratingly non-universal. After years of having cell
service with one of the large providers, I switched to Fi last year since I
was going to be out of the country a lot. The biggest annoyance has been most
short code SMS not working. Each SMS shortcode is only supported on a
provider-by-provider basis.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out that even your examples of
open, interoperable protocols are instances where we've traded some of that
open interoperability for convenience.

~~~
takeda
I have my own mail server and am running it from my home server for 15 years
now, I did not notice having issues with delivery to large providers and I did
not set up SPF, DKIM or whatever currently you supposed to use (I do have TLS
enabled though).

I do have some mailing lists running from it, so it's possible it helped me
that their users are making sure mails from it doesn't end up in junk folder.

Anyway, I would encourage anyone to run their own mail server, to prevent
large provider doing what you're mentioning. Google already did this with
XMPP. They made GTalk interconnected with rest of XMPP server, but as soon as
they got a large base they disconnected from the rest and made their own
proprietary network.

~~~
bhauer
Same experience here. No special setup, no SPF or DKIM, and yet no particular
challenge in sending e-mail. I feel the challenges of operating a mail server
are often exaggerated. But then, I don't tend to send spam.

~~~
priitmaxx
Wow, I am surprised. I recently had to migrate my mailserver from my
datacenter to the cloud. I lost the original IP address as a result. The new
IP address got flagged immediately on gmail and everywhere else. I setup SPF
and DKIM, that seems to fix the issues with the big guys. However on comcast
and others I still got throttled for quite a bit. i had to request
csi.cloudmark.com to unblock the ip..

~~~
mikeash
I wonder if you happened to inherit an IP address from someone who was up to
something less than savory.

~~~
seanp2k2
Oftentimes, poorly-managed VMs / VPSes get infected with scripts / botnet
software and start blasting out spam. It takes a long time for IP reputation
to recover, esp. under the same owner info on the netblock.

Regarding inbox deliverability from dynamic IPs (like you'd have with a
residential connection), it might work sometimes for short messages with no
attachments to people you've corresponded with before, but I wouldn't expect
general deliverability to be very good. You have the same problem with botnet
infections / malware-based spam here as well; home PCs are much more likely to
get infected with that kind of stuff (though WordPress exploits are VERY
common on servers), so many people running mail servers will just straight up
block dynamic IPs from big ISPs and assume that nothing of value was lost.
Personally, for low-volume mail such as what a home server might send
regarding maintenance or alerts, I'd recommend using a service like mailgun
and hooking up to that with SMTP. It's a lot easier than running your own mail
server, you won't have to deal with inbound spam if you're only sending, it
works well with minimal setup, they guide you through each step, etc etc.

------
pwaivers
A few thoughts:

\- This is way less creepy-looking than the Amazon Look
([https://www.amazon.com/Echo-Hands-Free-Camera-Style-
Assistan...](https://www.amazon.com/Echo-Hands-Free-Camera-Style-
Assistant/dp/B0186JAEWK)), but it is actually very similar.

\- It is great to add a screen to the Echo. Just more feedback on interacting
with it, and possibility to watch YouTube, Netflix, etc. casually.

\- It doesn't have the same cool minimalism as the Echo. The Echo sits on my
counter and looks nice when not in use. I think this one looks much clunkier.

\- I definitely want to try one.

~~~
odonnellryan
I wonder, why go this route instead of creating a device to add to your TV?

My echo is right next to the TV.

~~~
cbhl
They actually already have that. The Fire TV Stick has "Alexa" in it, but you
have to use the push-to-talk remote instead of having an always-on mic as in
the Echo.

~~~
chaostheory
It would be nice not to need a remote, like with Kinect but with better mics
and voice recognition

~~~
simcop2387
Part of the problem with that is that if the TV isn't on the right input then
you won't be able to receive the response. HDMI Control to change the input
exists, but with false positives it might be a bad thing still because it
would interrupt whatever you're doing to listen and go "i couldn't understand
the question i was asked". I'd quickly disable it if it was doing that.

~~~
8ytecoder
I power my chromecast directly and it uses HDMI-CEC to automatically turn on
the TV. It works pretty well.

------
mholmes680
Its interesting to see how _fast_ Amazon can come to market with these new
hardware pieces. I guess the fallout of the Amazon Phone at least had some
lessons learned in hardware suppliers, etc... I realize they're throwing
hardware out there prior to seeing what the software can do with it, but I
think its necessary to get people locked in.

I like their approach from the business perspective. Give the people a voice
controlled speaker. Give them a remote! Now, give them a voice-controlled
camera! Now, give them a voice-controlled screen! Soon, give them <insert
novel sensor> and let them go hands free! Rinse-repeat.

~~~
orky56
Amazon has been in the hardware game for awhile now with the various Kindle
devices. They entered that market, deployed enough SKUs to satisfy nearly
everyone out there, and started shifting outside the e-reader product to
tablets, etc.

Apple is the juggernaut and is likely to overthink its product offerings and
how it affects the ecosystem of existing devices. Just like the Kindle, Amazon
is ready to flood the market with SKUs to see what sticks. They're building
their brand in hardware very quickly and leading the market with the strongest
connected home ecosystem.

~~~
thinkling
> Amazon has been in the hardware game for awhile now with the various Kindle
> devices.

Not just the Kindle devices, but also a growing range of Amazon Basics store-
brand products, including batteries, headphones, Bluetooth speakers, paper
shredders, towels and sheets, yoga mats, ... the list goes on and on. While
many are undoubtedly existing products with the Amazon name stamped on them,
Amazon has generally been building a lot of experience working with
suppliers/manufacturers.

See:
[https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics/](https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics/)

------
silvanojr
I was battling back and forth FOR A MONTH with their skill certification
approval team for a skill update that would allow customers to call people by
name, where in the first version it was only by phone number.

They would fail the certification because apparently people didn't know how to
test, or used fake numbers to make phone calls and complained the call would
not connect, or the certificate validation (that was working before) would
fail, etc. All sorts of things. VERY frustrating process. I wouldn't make any
change, submit the skill again for certification and get different results.

Now they announce their own calling feature, a week after finally approving
our update.

~~~
sgift
Kind of sad for you guys, but at the same time not so surprising - it is the
fate of every useful platform add-on to be integrated into the platform over
time. And calling people by name seems like a low-hanging fruit for Amazon.

~~~
silvanojr
Yes... also, when people started talking about an Echo device that could allow
phone calls to happen I sent them an e-mail asking if we could have early
access to develop our skill using the new device capabilities and asking if
they had a beta program, their only response was: we don't comment on rumors.

Silly me.

------
justcommenting
The Amazon Echo Show seems very much like a telescreen, straight out of
Orwell's 1984:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescreen)

~~~
aphextron
Agreed. I can't possibly see the value in these integrated devices for anyone
but Amazon. Beyond that, these things can and will be hacked immediately.

~~~
lucasmullens
"will be hacked immediately" is a bit of a bold claim.

~~~
sixothree
I would be surprised if this device were not already compromised by our
government.

------
verytrivial
I must be one of those old farts who prefers privacy over convenience.

I do not want what amounts to an always-on black-box surveillance device in my
home and I simply do not understand why other people think it is okay. I
honestly don't.

Down with this sort of thing!

~~~
eclipxe
Do you own a cellphone with a camera and microphone?

~~~
pdkl95
No, and unless I have to some type of on-call job in the future, I never will.
POTS works fine for telephony, and my computer is _much_ faster, has better
features, is far easier to read, and isn't _de facto_ controlled by
Apple|Google.

While portable devices can be a useful tool, far too many people are addicted
to the dopamine hit they get by hitting "refresh", and/or distracted by shiny
tech baubles.

~~~
nebabyte
Good on you. I've gone back and forth between having a smart device and not,
and while I've been on the move for a while and thus benefitted from having
one, will likely go back to pre-smartphone hardware once settled.

Other than net browsing (which I find woefully underpowered on mobile even
today) and listening to music, I rarely if ever use this thing's auxillary
functions. Most of the "defaults" are just clutter reminiscent of the pre-
smartphone vendor days (complete with the "but look, you can make them less
visible, just move them around!"). Can relate on the distraction bit as well,
as that used to be a bigger problem for me.

------
FLGMwt
Any echo owners feel like they would get additional value out of this?

90% of my interaction with my standard echo has been "what's the weather".

Even when I want visual controls for music, I'd rather pull out my phone than
walk over to a screen.

~~~
non_sequitur
I think the biggest benefit is video calling. Get your parents one, get one
yourself, schedule a video call with them once a week (or whatever). Easier
than Facetime since you don't have to hold up the phone. Reminds me of the
videophones in the Starship Troopers movie.

~~~
ashark
Surely two phone stands would be cheaper. You can even initiate the call with
voice if you really don't want to touch anything.

~~~
fps
Neither of my parents (70+) can handle smart phones. They get computers, TVs
and other personal electronics just fine, but iOS and Android are both
basically unusable for them. Both OSes have too many distractions and too many
interaction choices, so the phone is always doing something unexpected and
confusing. I've occasionally talked them through doing a hangouts call on a
computer and they've loved seeing their grandkids on the video, but the
smartphone interface has kept them from doing regular video calls. However, my
father figured out how to turn off my TV and turn on lights in about 5
minutes, without being taught, using my Echo Dot.

It's not about not "wanting to touch anything" \- the voice interface is
slower and less flexible than a visual interface in a lot of ways, but it's
also more consistent and easier to memorize key interactions.

------
ejtek
It continues to surprise me how far ahead of them Apple is letting
Amazon/Google get in this area. I've always been a big fan of Apple (despite
their closed ecosystem), but have to admit that Amazon is seriously outplaying
them on this front. Hopefully Apple surprises me and comes up with something
even more innovative that can compete.

~~~
dkrich
When I saw this, I actually had the opposite reaction.

I remember when I first saw an iPod Nano with the color screen and the scroll
wheel that magically scrolled up and down by just moving your finger around it
without actually turning a wheel. It seemed like magic. Same thing when I
first saw the iPhone/iPod Touch. Apple's products were very carefully designed
and only released when they were perfect, and very rarely failed to wow you.

Amazon on the other hand, always seems to rush things to market and then see
what sticks. I understand that this is largely their ethos, but when it comes
to Amazon hardware, I've found myself pretty cynical towards it because
they've released so much poorly-executed crap over the years. Even with Alexa,
I like many others, find that it's pretty much useless for anything beyond
playing music or setting a timer.

Having an Echo, I saw this and my first thought was "meh." I have a feeling
that if Apple released a similar product category, that wouldn't be the case.

~~~
trapperkeeper79
My latest gen Apple TV wants to disagree with you. As does my wife's first gen
Apple Watch ... both are magical turds IMHO.

~~~
dkrich
I don't own an Apple Watch, but I know lots of people who do and love them.

But in any case, I think the last ten years of iPhone and iPad releases do
somewhat agree with me.

~~~
msabalau
So if we only look at Apple's successful products, we can agree that Apple's
only makes "very carefully designed" things..

~~~
dkrich
I think that holds for pretty much all of their products, successful or not.

But if you want to argue that Amazon is a better product company than Apple,
then have at it.

------
colemannugent
I feel like this entire product could be a Chromecast-esque dongle that
connects to a TV. Having a personal dashboard would actually be quite useful,
but this seems like they want to sell appliances not experiences.

Maybe they've gone with this form factor because of the 2x 2" speakers? But
why would I want that when it could be plugged directly into my home audio
setup?

Or maybe it's so they can include a touchscreen? But I thought the whole point
was hands-free conversational interaction?

I guess I'm missing the point of this. Why would I, as a normal consumer, get
this instead of a regular Amazon Echo?

~~~
deong
I think there are certainly reasons to have your "hands-free conversational
interaction" device also be able to show you things.

It seems like the big pitch they're making right now is on communications, but
there are loads of reasons why I can imagine it being useful. Most mornings, I
ask Alexa about the weather. Usually, the voice response is all I need, but
occasionally, there are storms in the forecast, and there's a big difference
between "60% chance of thunderstorms" and "here's the radar image".

Traffic is another good example. You want to know that there's a 30 minute
delay on your route to work, but it's more important to know _where_ so you
can plan your route around it.

Just look at human interactions. We mostly communicate by voice, but that
doesn't mean that we attempt to provide every answer as spoken conversation.
If I ask my hypothetical assistant what a lemur looks like, he or she would
grab an image from Google -- not spend 5 minutes giving me descriptions of
dimensions and colors.

~~~
ashark
> Traffic is another good example. You want to know that there's a 30 minute
> delay on your route to work, but it's more important to know where so you
> can plan your route around it.

Back when I used Android, Google Now seemed to really do this right (if
creepily): it figured out when/where you commuted and would give you a heads-
up before you left, offering to plan a route around the trouble. More useful
since you take your phone with you. Also you didn't have to ask.

~~~
lsaferite
Did you ever take a look at the location tracking info google keeps on you?
They know everywhere I've been for the last several years or so.

I just checked, they list location data back to 2009.

[https://www.google.com/maps/timeline](https://www.google.com/maps/timeline)

~~~
electriclove
I went here with the intent to delete my history but I actually kinda like
being able to see this. I've got mixed feelings about it..

~~~
IneffablePigeon
I wrote a little script for viewing the data as a heatmap a while ago, if
you're interested:
[https://github.com/olane/locationheatmap](https://github.com/olane/locationheatmap)

------
danso
I'm not willing or interested enough to enable voice activation (Siri) on my
phone or desktop, but thought Echo would be nice to have as a music player.
The voice recognition is so reliable -- not just the NLP, but the mic array
(unlike trying to activate Siri on the iPhone) -- that it's converted me to a
true believer in voice interfaces, at least for simple tasks, such as playing
music, turning on NPR, and activating timers and alarms. I do have the Fire
stick connected to a projector but I've definitely longed for the ability to
navigate YouTube or HBO on a tablet-like device with Alexa (again, not just
the NLP, but the mic array, which Fire tablets don't have)

This seems like a nice step in that direction but I've been spoiled by the low
cost of the Echo Dot, which when it's on sale is so cheap it can be a stocking
stuffer. I don't think I could pay $229 for the first generation version of
the Show, but will likely get its cheaper, more advanced iterations.

~~~
Roritharr
Same here on all accounts, I'd just add that before I buy more Echoes Amazon
needs to make the Multi-Room Integration better so it's better to furnish out
a larger apartment or house. I mean there's probably no difference between a
single NSA listening device and a suite of them.

------
imartin2k
Maybe that's just me, but based on the photos, this device looks quite ugly -
which matters for a gadget that people put inside their homes, doesn't it? The
"original" Echo has a futuristic design. This one feels more like created in
70s or 80s.

~~~
rckclmbr
I think that's intentional. It's more like something my grandma would own. And
it looks less likely that they would be spying and recording everything I'm
doing. I guess it makes people feel safer since it looks "dumber"

~~~
imartin2k
Good point.

------
cphoover
People here are really missing the point... This isn't another ipad it's a
different way of interacting. It's not just video message either, it's a new
human interface for interacting with software. You can communicate with
someone and get suggestions at the same time. Think conversing with a friend
and having Alexa aid in the discussion.

Friend 1: Where do you want to go to the movies tonight? .. Friend 2: I dunno
Alexa have any good suggestions? Alexa: Star Trek is playing x:00 at X
theatre. Things of this nature.

------
noonespecial
Why does it have to be a tiny self contained screen? Until I can say "Alexa,
on the main view screen" (right after "Alexa, Earl Grey, hot" of course),
we've got progress to make.

Which reminds me, I've got a Keurig to hack...

~~~
Godel_unicode
Ok Google, show me Futurama from Netflix on living room. Ok Google, fast
forward 27 seconds.

As soon as they get the ability to play specific episodes (it knows what
you're asking, it just can't do it yet) and hook it up to the knowledge graph?
Ok Google, show me the Futurama episode where Hermes loses his job on living
room.

~~~
jerf
The Friends episode naming scheme is going to look extra prescient in the
future, since they all (with rare exception(s)) are called "The One With [2-6
word summary of the episode's A plot]":
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Friends_episodes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Friends_episodes)

------
tetrep
I don't see the value in this over a tablet with a stand. The tablet is
portable, can do more things, and already exists in many people's homes.

~~~
mhermher
It has a much better microphone array. It's actually probably the one thing
that stands out about the echo to me. The mic is really good.

~~~
danso
Seconding this. I never used Siri because it required holding the phone up to
my face for reliable results. The Echo Dot can hear me across the room even as
its playing music and other people are talking. The Fire tablets have Alexa
built in but I believe they not only require a button-push to activate, but
rely on their limited mics.

Until Alexa, I hadn't tried Siri since its initial launch years ago. I was
surprised to see that its AI/NLP was as good as Alexa's. So the killer feature
really is the convenient and reliable interface provided by the Echo's mics.

------
voltagex_
It's the Chumby for 2017, with less freedom to hack.

~~~
fenwick67
This is motivating me to do more work on my chumby clone project I've been
putting on the back burner.

------
UXCODE
In the United States, what is the need for speech recognition devices? At
least in Japan and China, speech recognition technology does not reach
practical level and needs are small.

~~~
iplaw
There isn't a need; it's more of a want. I have a few Echos and use them to
control my whole home audio system.

"Alexa, play Kendrick Lamar on Spotify."

Just like that, I have music throughout the house and in the front and back
yards. You can also get more specific with commands in order to limit where
the music plays, what music service is polled, etc.

It is much easier than pulling out a device, navigating to the application,
typing in a search string, selecting the artist, and clicking shuffle playback
for all of the artist's songs.

~~~
Nullabillity
Presumably you only listen to chart-topping american pop and music made by
people with common english names?

Because so far I've never had any luck whatsoever with anything else.

~~~
xforteversilov
I literally asked my Google home this morning: "Hey Google, play some Peruvian
psychedelic cumbia" and it found exactly what I wanted (using Spotify). For
me, these home assistants are the best thing I have bought since my first
smartphone.

~~~
Nullabillity
That's still a genre with a relatively english name. Good luck searching for a
specific artist/track.

~~~
VLM
Doesn't that violate streamed discovery and all that? You should just be
thumbs up thumbs down and trust the streaming service to take your advice as
it DJs to you. "Alexa play what you think I need to hear"

------
yalogin
Great now the echo will record all video as well and "anonymize" it and use it
to improve their systems. This class of devices are the most puzzling to me.
People know their value proposition is to record everything but then keep
buying them. I keep waiting for the day when the scales tip in favor of
privacy but that never happens.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
Actually, people don't know that. The Echo doesn't "record everything", and
I'd challenge you to provide _any_ evidence that it does.

~~~
shostack
True/false: Can Amazon technically enable it to record without the user's
knowledge?

What if a government compelled them to activate this to spy on someone?

~~~
djrogers
Ability to create a new (creepy and likely illegal) feature is not the same
thing as it being the Echo's "value prop"...

------
test6554
If they are going to enable calling, I sincerely hope they learn from the
current phone spam and email spam mess and don't let just anyone call you at
any time.

Ideally, you could authorize people to call you by giving each person/entity a
different token that authorizes them to call you. Then if that person/entity
sells the token to 3rd parties, you not only know who sold you out, but also
you have the ability to revoke that token easily.

------
trapperkeeper79
Amazon is killing it in IoT/Smart Home. However, IMHO, they are making a bit
of mistake by not allowing developers to monetize their platform (at least the
last time I checked). There were also certain device functions that apps could
not utilize (e.g. programmatically mute and unmute). I suspect they'll have a
wall garden approach to their new Echo devices too ... if this was open,
they'd win it all (again, just my opinion).

~~~
irq-1
Amazon subsidizes hardware by collecting information on the users, so they
can't open their hardware. It's ironic because, like uBlock on Chrome, only a
small percentage would change the hardware/OS anyway -- and those are the
people who could try radical experiments and show Amazon what works.

Hopefully Google, Samsung or Microsoft(?!) will sell open hardware/firmware
that isn't subsidized by collecting information.

Amazon is basically following the CueCat strategy.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat#Failure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat#Failure)

> The company's response to these hacks was to assert that users did not own
> the devices and had no right to modify or reverse engineer them. Threats of
> legal action against the hackers swiftly brought on more controversy and
> criticism.

~~~
deegles
Sources? Those are big claims to make.

------
dharma1
The main thing that annoys me about Echo is that the knowledge graph is so
poor. I can only choose from a limited amount of things to ask the damn thing,
WikiPedia or start installing 3rd party skills.

I wish I could install OK Google on Echo.

Edit - looks like you can, with a custom skill -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-
LVPMU7F4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-LVPMU7F4)

------
sergiotapia
Looks like something out of Robocop or Total Recall. I'm not sure if I'm
excited or terrified! Let's say both.

------
hungtraan
I honestly think that with the use cases the Echo Show would be much more
useful had the static structure has a rotating base, which allows the Echo
Show to rotate to the source of voice command (disable-able via setting for
privacy concern). That would allow ultimate versatile use for its screen to
offer the same hands-free experience.

------
rrggrr
This was the direction I expected Apple to take prior to Jobs passing. It
seemed the rumored Apple TV would combine Siri with traditional television.
Apple faces serious threats across the entertainment spectrum, from content to
device.

Everyone speculating on Apple acquisitions should be considering a Sony or LG
buyout. I own stock in neither.

------
JimmyAustin
Interesting choice going with an x86 chip. This could potentially be a hackers
dream if you got Linux running on it.

~~~
dawnerd
It's probably running their fire os.

~~~
JimmyAustin
AFAIK FireOS is ARM only and a brief look on wiki says all the other devices
(FireTV, Echo, Echo Dot, etc) are all ARM.

Either way, I'd imagine you would want to wipe it completely. Can't wait for
the iFixit teardown.

~~~
com2kid
FireOS is just Android with a UI skin and some Google services ripped out. I'd
be surprised if an x86 fork wasn't always maintained, if for nothing else than
ease of debugging!

------
GrumpyNl
Why would you wanna have a electronic spy at home is beyond me.

~~~
bovermyer
Because I want a Jarvis, and this is the closest thing.

If you can think of a way to have an artificial assistant of that class
without being tied in to a corporation, I'm all ears.

------
chaostheory
It would be nice to control FireTV with an Echo. Still waiting.

------
dafty4
Brushed aluminum or some other color scheme would look better. Plastic black
matte looks cheap and meh.

------
wppick
Eventually, with the internet of things, there will need to be a "home brain"
type device to control all of the devices in your house. The company that
holds that position of controlling what devices can work with others will have
a lot of market power.

------
kayoone
Love the concept of the Echo, however i don't see too much value in a screen,
as for most tasks you'd need that for it's usually worth the effort to pull
out the phone since you are also not bound to a specific location.

------
rtechnologies
I developed this same thing 6 months ago. Setup and commands are a bit
cumbersome due to being 3rd party but all you need is an Echo device and
Android device with the Echo Sidekick app. Does everything the Show does
except voice calls but you can send messages through Echo devices to other
devices with the SideKick app.
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.renovotech...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.renovotechnologies.alexafcm.free&hl=en)

------
vthallam
This is more like an iPad with a better Siri. I guess talking to parents,
watching child cams are the target audience for this. A device which sits in
living room or bed room need not show me CNN in there.

~~~
djrogers
I think it's more like an iPad with a better microphone (well, 7 or 8
actually). When Siri can hear you clearly, it's much better at most tasks in
my experience. The problem is often that it can't hear you clearly...

------
mycodebreaks
why should a Fire tablet paired with speakers not be able to do this?

I am not against any category of products, but as a person who likes to own
and manage fewer devices, I like my devices to be versatile.

------
malchow
What does a Sonos user do when he has already deployed a dozen Sonos speakers
throughout his house? Will there ever be a microphone-only Echo device that
can link into a Sonos system?

~~~
Wookai
Well, Sonos is actively working on Alexa integration (actually, integration
with any voice-controlled assistant): [https://www.cnet.com/news/sonos-
demonstrates-amazon-alexa-co...](https://www.cnet.com/news/sonos-demonstrates-
amazon-alexa-control-says-other-assistants-are-coming/)

In the meantime, you can connect an Echo Dot to a Play:5 (or any other Sonos
speaker that has a line-in): [http://www.sam-mallery.com/2016/12/5-tips-for-
using-amazon-e...](http://www.sam-mallery.com/2016/12/5-tips-for-using-amazon-
echo-dot-with-sonos/)

------
amelius
> If you want to limit your interaction with Alexa, simply turn the mic/camera
> button off.

Of course, that button is a handy indicator for Amazon to know when to record
stuff :)

------
pound
Now they're much closer to solving 'smart home assistant' online shopping.
Communication only via voice results in two uncomfortable options: either
you're blindly believing that you'll get best price/option ("order xyz") or
you may stuck in very slow listening of options (try to read search result
list). That barrier will be stepped over with this little screen enhancing
shopping experience, if needed.

------
cturitzin
This is exciting for healthcare use-cases. Simple stuff like video clinician
checkups or remote monitoring such as tracking and recording physical therapy
progress.

------
coding123
They used the same picture of Dad seeing his grandchild like 3 times, they
need to push out different pics.

~~~
iamatworknow
Now introducing Amazon Stock Photos!

(I had to search to make sure this didn't already exist, and I'm surprised it
doesn't.)

~~~
fenwick67
Can I use the Amazon Echo to lead an imaginary life?

"Show me pictures of my family" (stock photos)

"Show me my vacation photos" (synthesizes a photo of me at the grand canyon
with my waifu)

~~~
VLM
I've proposed this for social media for a long time. Rich and famous people
have handlers run their social media to meet their goals. I think it fair for
poorer people to experience the same relaxation and freedom. Why can't I hire
a cloud powered bot to manage my kids social media presence to get him into an
ivy "Hey everybody, like my pix of me doing voluntourism in some 3rd world
country where I'm photoshopped into a pix of a school being constructed." "How
do you do, fellow kids, I am very concerned today about (insert randomly
selected progressive cause)".

It wouldn't be a social problem as legacy social media is so yesterday, only
auntie and grandma still use facebook and corporations and bots are now the
majority users. You just know grandma is going to get into the weirdest
flamewar ever on myspace or ICQ or twitter with your social media bot avatar.

I think it would be useful to have a bot run my linkedin for me. A form letter
to respond to recruiter form letters. Every week it goes to Google Trends,
runs a query on "computer language" to find the trendy framework of the week,
and ta da I am now an expert on linked-in for "computer graphics programs in c
language with output" "what does pdf mean in computer language" "computer in
hindi language" and sure you laugh today, but normies (like HR gatekeepers)
google for this kind of stuff all the time, and if my bot's effort posting
gets me jobs you're not getting, well, we'll see who gets the last laugh ...

------
scotchio
Love that Amazon is throwing a lot of options out there.

Only wish the outer shell on this one looked a bit nicer / slicker.

Really want an "Alexa" type replacement for smoke detectors. Location seems
perfect for speakers / music in a house.

Scary to think that privacy for average consumer is basically dead.

------
kasperset
Looks like a mini tablet? Why cannot tablet be used for the same purpose?
Perhaps audio capability?

~~~
UnfalseDesign
I thought the exact same thing. It basically looks like a tablet with really
good speakers that runs "skills" as opposed to "apps." I have no doubt that
Amazon will be able to sell a ton of these but I'm clearly not the
demographic. Though, it does make me wonder, where is the ceiling for personal
assistant features? At what point does Amazon saturate its own market?

------
relyks
If you can place multiple of these in a house and use them all together as an
a/v intercom system, that'd be by a far killer feature. E.g. you can talk to
your child who's in the basement or talk to coworker at another cubicle

------
Boothroid
Why am I reminded of this:
[http://www.sinclairlair.co.uk/amstrad_emailer.htm](http://www.sinclairlair.co.uk/amstrad_emailer.htm)

------
LeoNatan25
It’s amazing how much of a difference a marketing video makes. This and the
Echo Look are not at all that dissimilar, yet one appears to be friendly and
essential, while the other is creepy as hell.

------
vineet
The video calling capability seems especially neat - I wonder if they will
interoperate with Facetime, Google Duo/Hangouts, and other video calling
protocols. It will make our lives so much easier.

~~~
eclipxe
?

~~~
vineet
Companies with closed platforms do have a track record of collaborating and
integrating.

However, if you are making a case for standards in this space - I agree.

------
davidcollantes
From a user's perspective, I think there are too many Echoes. It makes it hard
to decide which to get, especially for those who can only afford (or want to
deal with) one. Too much fractioning.

~~~
iampuero
Really? Ignoring Echo Look (which is invite only and for fashion) there will
now be three: 1\. Echo Show $230 2\. Echo $170 3\. Echo Dot $50

These three are very different in terms of hardware and price.

------
PascLeRasc
Are they just "announcing" these devices by putting them up for sale? It feels
like we need an Echo keynote to learn about their direction and they could get
a lot more hype that way.

~~~
DaggerDagger
Why? I think a company that sells products can just use their website, the #12
most visited website on the planet to announce it. The Steve Jobs style
keynote is so gauche now, even Apple seems sort of clunky doing it. You can't
do the same magic trick over and over and expect people to be into it.

------
dafty4
Brushed aluminum would look nicer. Plastic black matte is bleh.

------
jlebrech
I could see the use in the kitchen as ask alexa to look up recipes or turn the
page while my hands are greasy or covered in flour.

this functionality will probably need a custom firmware tho.

------
MarketingJason
IMO Amazon should focus on enabling and assisting the development of more
skills and integrations for echo devices before pushing out newer models or
adding features.

------
themtutty
Their demo video is cringe-worthy. I understand that you're also marketing to
non-technical folks, but it's like a film from grade school.

------
archeantus
Looks great. But how about that mural?? The main takeaway I had from that
video is I need to pick up sponge painting in my kid's rooms.

------
slackoverflower
What is Amazon's long term strategy with all these devices with the main
feature still being voice?

~~~
jaboutboul
Behavioral data. The more they know about you, the more they can accurately
target products/services/etc at you.

------
Kiro
Perfect for viewing and browsing recipes and recipe videos without having to
touch the screen.

------
CreepyGuy101
I have to ask why these things aren't gesture activated ...

------
agumonkey
Kinda merging tablet/webcam + alarm clock usage. Not bad.

------
pmcpinto
So this is kind of a tablet, but with voice as main UI

------
Animats
Not only can you watch it - _it watches you!_

------
mandeepj
A better alternate to Sony dash which got abandoned

~~~
sxates
Yes - my Dash finally died last year, which I mourned. This looks like the
next gen.

[https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HIDC10-Personal-Discontinued-
Man...](https://www.amazon.com/Sony-HIDC10-Personal-Discontinued-
Manufacturer/dp/B00375MPA8)

------
pateldeependra
This is similar to a tablet kept in my room.

------
salimmadjd
iPhone for grandparents? or Echo for grandparents.

For me this product makes sense for elderly in the digital age to keep them
connected.

------
kensai
"Alexa, submit this comment to HN"

It works! :D

------
gcb0
so amazon is trying to corner the market of tablets-junior-cant-take-to-the-
restroom market?

------
staz
"Alexa, show me the kids' room."

Am I the only one that's creeped up by that?

~~~
blang
It's a bit creepy, but we do already sell network enabled baby monitors that
do the same thing minus voice commands. Clearly a few have been sold as they
were what were blamed for the Dyn DDOS

------
CreepyGuy101
Well, that just got creepy. As if security wasn't an issue before.

------
bettyx1138
the video seems like a parody

------
uptown
“The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound Winston
made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it;
moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal
plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no
way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often,
or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was
guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time.
But at any rate they could plug into your wire whenever they wanted to.”

-Orwell, 1984

~~~
sgift
The joke's on us. Not even Orwell thought people would be willing to pay for
that kind of technology. He thought government would have to force people to
get it into their homes.

~~~
drewda
See the forward to Neil Postman's "Amusing Ourselves to Death":

> "But we had forgotten that alongside Orwell's dark vision, there was another
> --slightly older, slightly less well known, equally chilling: Aldous
> Huxley's Brave New World. Contrary to common belief even among the educated,
> Huxley and Orwell did not prophesy the same thing. Orwell warns that we will
> be overcome by an externally imposed oppression. But in Huxley's vision, no
> Big Brother is required to deprive people of their autonomy, maturity and
> history. As he saw it, people will come to love their oppression, to adore
> the technologies that undo their capacities to think.

> "What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was
> that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who
> wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information.
> Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to
> passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from
> us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell
> feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a
> trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy
> porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy. As Huxley re marked in Brave New
> World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the
> alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite
> appetite for distractions." In 1984, Huxley added, people are controlled by
> inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting
> pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley
> feared that what we love will ruin us."

[https://quote.ucsd.edu/childhood/files/2013/05/postman-
amusi...](https://quote.ucsd.edu/childhood/files/2013/05/postman-amusing.pdf)

~~~
pdkl95
> > there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who
> wanted to read one.

Max Headroom, episode ABC.1.3 "Body Bank"

    
    
        Paula: " ...what's that?"
        Blank Reg: "It's a book!"
        Paula: "Well, what's that?"
        Blank Reg: "It's a non-volatile storage medium.
                    It's very rare. You should have one."
        Paula: "Stuff it!"
    

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-a8TG-1gWY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-a8TG-1gWY)

That show was _way_ ahead of its time.

// Blank is beautiful!

------
ganfortran
Here is a crazy idea: What didn't Amazon make this its own Nintendo Switch? A
stand with a detachable tablet? Won't this be even better?

~~~
tartuffe78
Because then it would be an entirely different product.

