

Cellphones Track Your Every Move and You May Not Even Know - trotsky
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/business/media/26privacy.html?_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto

======
po
The sad thing is that this will only be used for nefarious purposes. Imagine a
disaster like the tsunami here in Japan. It's conceivable the phone company
could provide data updates for each user until the phone or the cell phone
tower is overwhelmed with water. You could get a report of every person known
to be ok and the last location of every missing person.

If this sort of usage was possible, people would understand the privacy they
are giving up and appreciate the benefits.

Unfortunately, that sort of usage will never be built out. It will only be
used as a when required by a court. Apple has taken a small step in this
direction with the find-my-iphone feature, but I think it could be made much
more accessible to the end-user. If people are going to forfeit privacy, at
least let them benefit from it.

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kleiba
"...and you may not even know" - huh? Seriously? I thought this is well-known.
The privacy implications have been discussed before many times (even Wikipedia
knows about it: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking#Privacy>)

It's just that most people don't care enough, or at least they are willing to
trade that part of privacy against the advantages of ubiquitous connectivity.

~~~
wladimir
Everyone knows abstractly that cell providers can store all your location
information. But the extent and detail that this real data set shows can be an
eye opener.

The most shocking thing to me is that this information wasn't recorded because
he was specifically targeted, but this information is stored for everyone, for
such a long time.

~~~
ddol
Is it really an eye opener? Just because data isn't directly used it is not
safe to assume that data is discarded.

The cell companies need data on crowd movements[1] to best allocate network
resources, to provide a better service. This collective data has to come from
a collection of individual datum. Data might need to be collected for all
users over a long time frame (years) to correctly identify (for example) how
much additional infrastructure is needed near stadiums in football season, how
the profile of commuters is changing and what new suburbs are being inhabited.

If we want a stable and reliable cell network, we have to allow the cell
companies best plan for our usage.

[1] <http://senseable.mit.edu/realtimerome/>

~~~
wladimir
Fair enough. If you need usage information, and distribution of usage
information, it can very well be anonimized. You don't need to store the
(attributable) travel paths of individual users for any longer than it takes
to process it (or for the billing period).

It's also important to set priorities. I'd rather have more solid privacy
protection than up-to-micromanagement optimal planning of capacity. Western
Europe has extremely good cell coverage, so I don't think this is much of an
issue.

~~~
ddol
Our good coverage is in part due to analysis by the likes of Ericsson on user
movements/density. Make the laws harsher on storing location data and we could
see a drop in network quality down the road.

Having worked as an employee (not contractor) for 3 of the 4 major Irish cell
companies I know that data like this is heavily protected internally (I never
saw any subscriber location information). There are data protection laws
already in place to stop this information leaking.

Why do you want to limit the information a company can keep on its users? Are
you a fan of this new EU cookie directive?

------
philthy
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2327282>

Stallman +1

------
gyardley
In other shocking news, your ISP knows what websites you visit.

While we need to have real discussions and set real policies, we should be
talking about the length of data retention, the way the data is stored, the
entities who can access the data, the purposes for which the data is
collected, the exact data that's being collected, and a rational weighing of
the benefits vs. the costs.

Instead, we usually get fearmongering and witchhunts, usually instigated by
somebody selling something. If you've successfully kept a low profile, all is
permitted. If you haven't, you get to be the Great Satan for a while. While
the hate mail will help you grow a thick skin, if you're the Great Satan a
little too often, the politicians, prosecutors, and bureaucrats smell a
'winning issue', and will attempt to ruin your business and make your life a
hell.

I would not start an analytics or an advertising company in 2011.

------
Construct
The article mentions the data file and visualizations, but doesn't link them:

Raw data file:

[https://spreadsheets2.google.com/ccc?authkey=COCjw-
kG&hl...](https://spreadsheets2.google.com/ccc?authkey=COCjw-
kG&hl=en_GB&key=tjwZrdlN1Y7CMUtd9PyffIw&hl=en_GB&authkey=COCjw-kG#gid=0)

Visualization (in German):

<http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-vorratsdaten>

------
Estragon
I was watching the TV show _Life_ the other day, and there were a surprising
number of situations in which the protagonist relied on his cell phone while
committing criminal acts, or traveling to or from criminal acts. And he's
LAPD, so such a character would know better in real life. (Remember OJ
Simpson's capture?)

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thailandstartup
From Wikipedia -

Qualified services may achieve a precision of down to 50 meters in urban areas
where mobile traffic and density of antenna towers (base stations) is
sufficiently high. Rural and desolate areas may see miles between base
stations and therefore determine locations less precisely.

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T2P
The tracking isn't exactly a revelation--same deal for using every scrap of
customer data for marketing.

~~~
cosmicray
If I go into a store and pay for something with cash (and the store is a major
chain), invariably I get an added part on the register receipt wanting me to
participate in a store survey. The opinion site usually have a web
alternative, but they want a phone number "so that we can notify you if you
win". Feels heavily like a form of customer profile creation / data mining to
me.

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capedape
I'd like to be able to request a visualization of my location similar to the
flight pattern project <http://users.design.ucla.edu/~akoblin/work/faa/>

figure ATT owes me at least that much

------
zyfo
Is there any relatively easy way to find/record/request this information for
one's own phone? Would be enlightening.

~~~
tdfx
Try Google Latitude. The history feature is probably a rough approximation of
what the cell phone company (and by extension, law enforcement) would see.

