
Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium - jonathanehrlich
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/world/asia/inky-octopus-new-zealand-aquarium.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
======
SpaceX_Tech
A number of years ago I kept two octopuses in captivity and I always enjoy
reading articles like this, I wish more people took an interest in them and
I’m glad to see the audience at HN does.

They really are remarkable animals and unbelievably inquisitive. Trying to
keep them from escaping, even from a relatively small 250 gallon tank was
always a challenge and I can only imagine how difficult it is to retrofit the
larger tanks they inhabit at public aquariums to be escape proof.

They two I kept were incredibly tactile in their curiosity and loved exploring
my arms/hands whenever I put them into their tank. They would readily eat
small crabs and shrimp right from my fingers and seemed to like playing tug of
war, clinging to my hand with a few tentacles and them some of the heavier
rocks with the others. Lego blocks, clear acrylic piping, small plastic toys
would keep them busy for hours on end.

Many people don’t realize this but they are unfortunately (or fortunately for
humans) remarkably short lived. Most species live only for 1-1.5 years and
even the Giant Pacific Octopus usually only lives for 3-5 years. I would
always jokingly remark to friends that if they had a longer life span on the
order of a decade or more, they probably would have invented some kind of
breathing apparatus and conquered land long ago. They would probably have a
much more advanced space program by now as well.

~~~
userbinator
_remarkably short lived._

I suppose that also means they reproduce very quickly, which is a good thing
in light of the other discussion here about sustainability of consuming them
as food.

~~~
SpaceX_Tech
I believe in most, if not all, species of octopus the male dies after mating
and the female dies shortly after the eggs in her care hatch. Also depending
on the species, anywhere from 20,000-200,000 eggs will hatch and I've read
that only around 1% will make it to adulthood.

In captivity octopuses are considered relatively difficult to keep due to
their sensitivity to water quality. They have a fairly narrow band of
acceptable levels of pH, ammonia, nitrite, and salinity. Copper is pretty much
Kryptonite to an octopus. I’m unsure what the potential is for large scale
changes in oceanic chemistry but I imagine it would be devastating to
octopuses, along with overfishing.

I’m actually curious how serious a threat overfishing is. Seeing as how
difficult they are to contain I wonder if most commercially available octopus
are specifically fished for or are just a byproduct of some other fishing and
whether this has a large affect on their populations.

~~~
foobarbecue
> I’m unsure what the potential is for large scale changes in oceanic
> chemistry

We are down from pre-industrial 8.25 pH to 8.08, and no sign of slowing. Major
changes are certain. I don't know if this means the water will dissolve more
metals like Cu, but it seems possible.

Source:
[http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/file/Hawaii+Carbon+Dioxide+Time...](http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/file/Hawaii+Carbon+Dioxide+Time-
Series)

~~~
SpaceX_Tech
Thanks for the info, very interesting and troubling.

------
the_rosentotter
A similar interesting octopus story not mentioned in the article:

A particular light in a German aquarium kept short-circuiting and no one could
figure out why. Using camera surveillance it was finally discovered that every
night, the octopus would climb to the edge of his tank and shoot a jet of
water on the light, shorting it. It was speculated that the light had been
bothering the octopus' nocturnal routine.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3328...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3328480/Otto-
the-octopus-wrecks-havoc.html)

~~~
nier
Their answer was to hang the light higher. No explanation for keeping the
nightly illumination.

~~~
developer2
That article is depressing. They nonchalantly attribute the behaviour to
boredom and belittling the creature like a child: "Otto is constantly craving
for attention and always comes up with new stunts so we have realised we will
have to keep more careful eye on him".

Let's not attribute any aspect of his behaviour to the crippling reality of
captivity. Oh, no.

~~~
gd1
There is no more evidence for your theory than theirs. Neither can be proven.
So "let's not attribute any aspect of his behaviour" to anything is the only
correct response.

~~~
coldtea
No evidence? You do know that light plays a significant role in circadian
rhythms in most animals and can have dire effects on physiology, right?

~~~
gd1
So that is evidence that the light is motivating the octopus is it?

------
sarreph
It upsets me to no end that we find evidence such as this piece that
cephalopods are actually (relatively speaking) remarkably more intelligent
than common wisdom pertains[0], and yet the culinary abuse and harm (i.e.
'live sushi/sashimi') of these creatures continues.

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence)

~~~
koolba
Are you against eating all animals or is there a cut off point of intelligence
after which it stops being okay?

Most of what is/isn't acceptable to eat is based on history and popular
socially accepted practices, not whether people think their prospective dinner
is intelligent. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs yet the latter are not
eaten in the western world and I wouldn't want to live in a world without the
(delicious) former.

~~~
kristopolous
Although not the OP, I have a fairly strong opinion on this. In order of
importance everyone should

* Make their own decisions on what to eat.

* Understand the externalities, exogenous, and endogenous process and consequences of their decisions.

* Take full personal, civic, and environmental responsibility for those decisions.

Essentially, as long as people are forthright, honest, and accountable about
what they eat, where it comes from, and the ecological footprints their
choices implicate, then have at it, eat whatever.

~~~
Falling3
Is this really how you feel taken to its logical extremes? Do you think humans
should be allowed to eat other humans? Other live humans?

Eating is clearly a very personal thing, but it's silly to pretend that
morality suddenly ceases applying.

~~~
brahmwg
What about meat grown in a lab, so no being had to die for it.

...what about human meat grown in a lab...?

~~~
indlebe
as someone who considers themselves an animal-rights moderate, I am 100% OK
with lab meat. No sentient beings suffering = no problem!

------
kobayashi
>Inky is not the first octopus to attract the spotlight. In the summer of
2010, Paul, an octopus in Germany, gained worldwide attention when he appeared
to correctly pick the winning team in all seven of Germany’s games at the
World Cup in South Africa — a feat that inspired a song. He has been
immortalized in Oberhausen, Germany, with a six-foot plastic replica of him
clutching a soccer ball.

To me, this cheapens the article. There are readers who are going to think
that the octopus actually predicted those wins, when any thoughtfully rational
observer would understand that it was merely a lucky happenstance.

~~~
davidw
Yeah, your basic octopus scam where you get a bunch of octupi and have them
predict results from sports games, and advertise the results of the one that
has managed to "predict" the most results.

~~~
Tomte
Nope, it and only it was seriously followed by tabloids and reputable
newspapers alike at least from the second match on.

Sure, it was chance. But not a "pick a winner in hindsight" scam.

------
danparsonson
> “He managed to make his way to one of the drain holes that go back to the
> ocean, and off he went,” Mr. Yarrall said. “Didn’t even leave us a message.”

Yes he did - the message was 'I don't want to live in a glass box'

------
bnjmn
In 2016, Inky Dufresne escaped from Shawtank Prison. All they found of him was
a muddy set of prison clothes, a bar of soap, and an old rock hammer, damn
near worn down to the nub.

------
DanBC
The linked video is amazing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHIsQhVxGM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHIsQhVxGM)

And here's a "tool using" octopus - carring a coconut shell to hide in.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DoWdHOtlrk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DoWdHOtlrk)

------
dpcan
Kind-of off topic I guess, but we were just visiting an aquarium in Seaside OR
a couple weeks ago, and they famously have an octopus in the tank, with no top
on it that you can stand next to and watch it swim around.

While we were there, it was dancing for us, speeding across the tank like I'd
never seen. He really looked like he'd love to be free. So the question had to
be asked, "What if he wants to get out?"

The aquarium attendant told us something in the vein of, if he gets out, he
gets out. If he wants to be free, he will get free.

I thought that was an interesting answer, though I'm still not sure how I feel
about it. I can tell you that if it tried to get free while I was there, I'd
probably get the heck out of the aquarium. It resembled an alien, and I'm
afraid of most giant things from the sea.

------
danans
I wonder if Inky knew that the drain hole led to the ocean, or if it was a
just a lucky break.

~~~
kevinmchugh
It was a dark, tight space, which octopuses enjoy. He may have entered it
simply because it seemed more comfortable than where he was.

~~~
bduerst
Are they certain Inky isn't still in there?

~~~
itslennysfault
Yes.

> The aquarium’s manager, Rob Yarrall, told Radio New Zealand that employees
> had searched the aquarium’s pipes after discovering Inky’s trail, to no
> avail.

------
hodwik
Just because something has complex self-preservation behaviors does not mean
that thing is displaying consciousness. Complex behaviors are witnessed in
insects and microscopic organisms, yet they have nothing like a brain.

What's more, we're computer scientists. If anyone should be aware that
something can seem intelligent without sentience it should be us. Who here
_hasn 't_ explored chat bots or game AI mechanics? Yet these inventions are
remarkably simple compared with even the most basic of evolution's creations.

Are venus fly traps sentient because they catch food in their "mouths"? Of
course not. Our knee-jerk reaction to equate behavior with sentience
illustrates just how bad we humans are of seeing reality without an
anthropomorphic lense.

It is far more likely that human beings became unusual because of our
sentience, not that animals remain base in spite of theirs.

~~~
Houshalter
There's no evidence yet that humans are sentient either. It's all wild
speculation. Many complex behaviors observed in humans have been reproduced
with very simple algorithms.

~~~
hodwik
The simple difference being that we are humans, and can easily extrapolate to
the rest of our species from ourselves.

As for other animals, I'm not so convinced that the same extrapolation stands.

------
kevinmchugh
I'm currently reading The Soul of an Octopus and it's really joy inspiring.
Part pop-science, part memoir, part inter-species romance. If you just come in
for science you'll be annoyed by Clever Hans effect and confirmation bias, but
that's all pop science writing on animal intelligence.

[http://amazon.com/The-Soul-Octopus-Exploration-
Consciousness...](http://amazon.com/The-Soul-Octopus-Exploration-
Consciousness/dp/1451697716?sa-no-redirect=1)

~~~
Eric_WVGG
if anyone’s interested in a science fiction take, Steven Baxter’s “Manifold:
Time” has a subplot involving intelligence-enhanced cephalopods. It’s one of
my favorite hard sci-fi reads…

~~~
cmrx64
Thanks for the recommendation, that looks really interesting. I'm always on
the look out for interesting hard(er) scifi.

------
joshuamcneese
it's behavior like this that caused me to no longer be able to eat octopus,
which was one of my favorite foods. but after learning that they are capable
of planning and puzzle-solving... i felt guilty after every trip to the sushi
place.

------
mrfusion
Amazing. Most humans couldnt come up with an escape plan like this.

It's possible he exhibiting long term goal oriented planning here.

Have we considered octopi might actually be more intelligent than humans?

Wouldn't it be funny if in the future we figured out how to communicate with
them and they ended up solving our hardest problems or making breakthroughs in
physics and math?

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Octopi aren't more intelligent than humans, because intelligence in humans is
partly external.

We're fairly dumb as feral individuals, but give us a herd memory for science
and math and we can fly to the moon.

Octopi not only don't live very long, they're also aggressively solitary. So
they have the usual smart-animal problem of starting life as a blank slate
with a few baked-in instincts and no way to learn from previous generations.

The blank slate cycle has been repeating for millions of years, so they're
unlikely to change now.

If they did, we'd be in trouble.

~~~
mrfusion
What if we shared all of our knowledge with them to fix the blank slate
problem?

But you're right. A single human with no knowledge is not very intelligent.
It's disconcerting if you think about it.

~~~
Splines
Sometimes I feel we are precariously positioned at the tip of human
achievement. I think we're lucky that the earth is abundant in resources to
make up for our mistakes.

------
andrewclunn
Great article until they conflated stupid human sports superstition with
cephalopod intelligence.

------
richardthered
Why is this news story everywhere?! Hacker News, Google News, newspapers,
facebook feeds, ... it's like it's following me everywhere I go!

Is there some secret octopus cabal out there that's advancing the secret
octopus news agenda?

~~~
koube
I'm noticing a lot of Reddit posts showing up here that don't seem all too
related to tech. Perhaps Hacker News is just growing to that size where it
starts to get off topic sometimes.

------
Joof
Supposedly octopuses have a my h more distributed neural system. Most of their
neurons are in their tentacles (we also have neurons in our body, but mostly
the brain). I'd love to see an fMRI.

------
ianphughes
Not to sound too negative, but I kind of feel like the timing of this story is
suspect. It seems to be on the heels of numerous articles [1][2][3] from Pixar
talking about their new character, which is an octopus, escaping and rescuing
Dory the fish.

FWIW, I am a huge fan of cephalopods and have a large octopus tattoo
enshrining my admiration for the animal. They certainly are highly
intelligent, so the story isn't impossible.

[1] [http://zap2it.com/2016/04/finding-dory-director-hank-
septopu...](http://zap2it.com/2016/04/finding-dory-director-hank-septopus-
sneak-peek/)

[2] [http://www.awn.com/animationworld/ultimate-sidekick-
finally-...](http://www.awn.com/animationworld/ultimate-sidekick-finally-
discovers-herself-pixar-s-finding-dory)

[3]
[http://article.wn.com/view/2016/04/07/8216finding_dory_8217s...](http://article.wn.com/view/2016/04/07/8216finding_dory_8217s_8217_hank_is_the_8216hardest_characte/)

~~~
yolesaber
But the story doesn't even mention Pixar or Finding Dory? Is this some sort of
new ultra low-frequency subliminal advertising? Or are you just being a little
paranoid? You're the one who brought it up, maybe you're the one working for
Pixar.

~~~
ianphughes
Well, I could be for sure. The new Pixar has a story has a central character
that is an escape artists octopus. Certainly could be coincidental.

------
bpchaps
Offtopic (sorry) - why is it that I can't read this short article in full in
one screen on a 4k monitor? And why is it that when I move my mouse around, I
get about 10 different places where a mini dialogue pops up? Somebody needs to
make a new internet.

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
The proper agency has been notified, please stand by for wish fulfillment.

~~~
bpchaps
Dang, last time I worked with one of those agencies, they never got back to
me. Still hopeful! ;)

------
peter303
I am looking for a big enough crack in my cubicle wall to escape too!

------
bitwize
The bit with the jailbreaking octopus from _Finding Dory_ comes to mind.

------
pier25
Octodad anyone?

