
Project Fi by Google - frewsxcv
https://fi.google.com/about/
======
wiremine
For those who don't want to read the FAQ or find the video incredibly
unhelpful [1]:

a. It only supports the Nexus 6 out of the gate.

b. It automatically switches you to the "fastest" network available. Partners
out of the gate are Sprint and T-mobile. Sounds like it prefers Wifi, then 4G
LTE, and then degrades down to 3G or 2G.

c. Pricing is $20 for unlimited talk (domestic) and text (domestic and
international) and wi-fi tethering. Data is $10 per Gig. (Plus taxes, etc.) No
support for unlimited data. they also refund you all the unlimited data at the
end of the month.

d. No annual contract required.

e. Supports calls over wi-fi.

Coverage map here:
[https://fi.google.com/coverage](https://fi.google.com/coverage)

[1] Not even sure why they made a video, it doesn't explain a thing...

Edit: clarified domestic talk pricing, and refunding data.

~~~
smacktoward
What I don't get is, what's in this for Sprint and T-Mobile? Currently a user
of their network is a customer they "own" \-- they deal with that customer
directly. Now they have Google sitting between them and the user, which
effectively commoditizes their service; Google could switch them out for
another network down the road without the user ever knowing or caring. That's
great for Google, and probably also great for the user, but not so great for
the individual cell providers.

Presumably Google is paying them something to compensate for that, but it
still seems dumb -- accepting a little money today at the cost of cutting your
own throat in the long term. But then there aren't many providers in the US
that _aren 't_ dumb, so maybe the long-term threat has just been completely
missed by them? Who knows...

~~~
laurencerowe
Google is charging a significant markup over T-Mobile's existing rates
($30/month for 5Gb vs $70/month through Gooogle.) So Fi is really only
interesting for people doing significant international roaming.

~~~
bko
Where did you get your numbers?

T-Mobile site says 1 GB of 4G data with unlimited talk and text for $50 a
month.

5 gigs of 4G data is $70

[http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-
plans/individual.html](http://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-
plans/individual.html)

~~~
mcpherrinm
[http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-plans](http://prepaid-
phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-plans)

If you scroll down, there's:

$30 per month — Unlimited web and text with 100 minutes talk 100 minutes talk
| Unlimited text | First 5GB at up to 4G speeds

I'm considering switch from that plan to Google Fi for Canada data.

~~~
tertius
No tethering with that plan.

~~~
mcpherrinm
If you install the T-mobile app which lets you know your monthly usage, it
claims I have 100 megabytes of tethering data. I rather quickly uninstalled it
since it's a pain, but some limited tethering does seem to work for me -- I've
only used it occasionally to SSH/mosh, but after a while it does an http
redirect to a "No tethering for you!" screen; I assume after that 100mb cap is
reached (though I haven't checked)

------
gabemart

        > Pay one rate for data around the world
        >
        > In 120+ countries, data usage costs the same $10 per GB
        > as it does in the US (data speed is limited to 256kbps/3G).
        > Check email, get directions, and keep in touch with friends
        > and family when on your trip. Also, call around the world
        > for 20c per minute and send unlimited international texts.
    

This sounds incredible. Roaming cellular transmission costs are enormous. It's
routine to pay several dollars per minute for voice and per megabyte for data.
If the data roaming is really no-strings attached, this is a must-buy for me
(if it ever becomes available in the UK).

~~~
vigneshv_psg
FWIW, T-Mobile in the US already has the exact same offering [1]. Their plan
has free texts and 2g data in 120+ countries. Calls cost 20 cents per minute.

[1] [http://www.t-mobile.com/optional-
services/roaming.html](http://www.t-mobile.com/optional-services/roaming.html)

~~~
Someone1234
I am on T-Mobile and travelled outside the US late last year.

First off, I just want to say, the "free tier" of international data is
extremely appreciated for two important reasons:

\- Overage is literally impossible (i.e. no "bill shock").

\- If you don't wish to pay, you get "something" for nothing.

So, now, the "bad." The reality is that T-Mobile's free tier is incredibly
slow like "my 56K modem was faster than this" slow. A single modern web-site
can literally take so long to load that my phone would fall asleep and then
cut off the connection (meaning I'd have to start all over).

It is really only useful for push notifications and to check your email if
you're really patient. Even for reading sites like Reddit, it would drive you
up the wall. Looking at images (e.g. imgur) is a no-go and YouTube is
definitely not even plausible.

Now, if you pay, you get more data per dollar than you do on most other big US
networks and you legitimately get 4G speeds in many places (at least I
certainly did). So if you pay you wouldn't even know you were abroad. And when
you run out of paid data, you drop down to the slow speed again rather than
being cut off (which is nice, so you feel safe to use 100% of your paid data
with no risk).

So, to me, T-Mobile's free tier doesn't really change the formula for
international travel. It just solves overage/bill shock and gives you some
basic notifications and maybe email. Those aren't things to be sniffed at,
they're legitimately nice, but people should manage their expectations.

PS - Protip: Restart your phone every single time you change countries. My
phone got "confused" and would refuse to connect until I restarted. We did a
cruise so a new country was daily, and I missed a day of data because I
thought that country simply wasn't supported (rather than it being a phone
problem).

~~~
kissickas
Absolutely correct about restarting your phone. I even restart mine twice
after I change SIM cards (not a T-Mobile guy).

What's your experience with Google Maps at the free 2G speeds? That would be
my first question when it comes to travel.

~~~
ngoldbaum
Fun thing to keep in mind when traveling in mainland China: maps for use
outside China are shifted by a few hundred meters, presumably in a lame
attempt to confuse an invading army.

[https://polastre.com/2013/02/what-the-
map/](https://polastre.com/2013/02/what-the-map/)

~~~
stingrae
I have not run into this issue in China, perhaps this has changed since.

------
MBlume
"We refund the data you don't use" is basically a way of saying "you pay by
the megabyte for the data you do use" \-- which is actually really great, I've
been frustrated that everyone's settled on "all-you-can-eat" data as the
standard, it doesn't align incentives well at all.

And they really are refunding it: if you use 1.2GB per month, it doesn't
matter whether you sign up for 2, 5, or 10GB, your bill comes out exactly the
same.

~~~
tomhschmidt
This plan actually makes no sense. Overage charges are the same rate ($10 /
GB), so why am I buying a "plan" at all? Why don't they just charge $10 * x
gigs / month instead of all this buying / refunding business?

~~~
yellowapple
Or better yet: why aren't they offering an unlimited data plan like what
T-Mobile and Sprint (Google Fi's "partners") already offer? Why aren't they
even at least going with T-Mobile's approach of "throttle the connection once
you go past your data cap, but don't charge overages"?

It's like they're taking the best things of both carriers - their unlimited
data plans - and pretending those things don't exist, that they're some
figment of consumers' imaginations, and instead just taking the AT&T/Verizon
approach, but using a soft and squishy dildo instead of a spiked rusty iron
dildo to screw us with.

~~~
modeless
Unlimited data plans are actually bad. The incentives are all wrong. Consumers
and websites have no incentive to fix any problem that causes them to use
unnecessary data, clogging the network. Carriers actually have a perverse
incentive to _discourage_ use of the network, because increased use doesn't
increase revenue, it just causes more congestion. This leads to stupidity like
extra charges for tethering, blocking of VPNs, "traffic shaping" to kill
"bandwidth hogs" like BitTorrent and Netflix, prohibitions on running servers,
service termination for "excessive" use, cooperation with the MPAA to identify
and stop BitTorrent users, etc.

With pay per gigabyte, incentives are aligned. Consumers and websites have an
incentive to conserve data. Carriers have an incentive to encourage use and
increase speeds. There's no reason to block servers or VPNs or tethering.
There's no reason to throttle BitTorrent or Netflix or terminate anyone's
service for "excessive" usage. In fact, with pay-per-GB carriers should
_encourage_ BitTorrent use and fight for consumers against the MPAA!

Historically unlimited data has been better for consumers because carriers
have charged ridiculous prices for overages (e.g. per-KB prices that add up to
hundreds of dollars per GB), and consumers don't have a good way of knowing
how much bandwidth they're using when they use different services, so they
can't predict their bills. If these two problems can be fixed, pay-per-GB is
the best way forward. I'm glad Google realizes this.

~~~
yellowapple
> Consumers and websites have no incentive to fix any problem that causes them
> to use unnecessary data, clogging the network.

Who says that my usage of data is a "problem" needing "solved"? 10GB (the
highest Google offers on its Fi page) can be burned through pretty quickly
just by watching videos on a road trip or somesuch. I'd much rather pay $80
for an unlimited plan from Sprint or T-Mobile than pay $120 (or more) for
Google Fi.

"Clogging the network" would be solved by carriers actually bothering to
invest in their networks to handle the load. That would solve a multitude of
other problems, too.

~~~
modeless
> "Clogging the network" would be solved by carriers actually bothering to
> invest in their networks

This is exactly my point. With unlimited data plans, carriers have little
incentive to upgrade their networks. It increases costs without directly
increasing revenue. With pay-per-GB, the incentive is clear: upgrading the
network increases usage which directly increases revenue.

~~~
whoopdedo
The real incentive is improving speeds makes shared-bandwidth networks more
cost effective. You can serve the same number of customers for less cost. Each
connection receives its data quicker then disconnects so someone else can use
the air space.

Time is the more important measure of cellular network usage than bytes. I
think it would be more convenient for customers to be billed per minute. At
$10/GB if my average speed is 5 Mbps that's $0.30 a minute. Or $30 to watch a
full-length movie in HD. Makes me wish Netflix still had mail delivery.

~~~
modeless
> You can serve the same number of customers for less cost.

No, upgrading the network allows you to serve more customers at higher cost
(the cost of the upgrades). If you have unlimited data plans, you can only
recoup those upgrade costs by recruiting more customers because existing
customers pay the same regardless of the speed. Recruiting more customers is
also costly and affected by many more factors than just network quality. The
connection between network upgrades and increased revenue is tenuous and
indirect.

In contrast, with pay-per-GB, network upgrades increase usage and thus
increase revenue from existing customers as well as new ones. The connection
between network upgrades and increased revenue is direct and immediate.

I agree that $10/GB is far too expensive; I'm sure Google would love for it to
be cheaper but the pricing isn't their choice to make. When carriers get some
competition from Project Loon and/or Elon Musk's satellite thingy, hopefully
prices will go down.

~~~
whoopdedo
> No, upgrading the network allows you to serve more customers at higher cost
> (the cost of the upgrades)

Upgrades are a one-time cost. You charge a higher rate for access to the
faster network until the investment is paid off then you phase down to all
customers. Then your operating cost is lower per subscriber in the long run.

~~~
modeless
These days, upgrades are a continuous cost. By the time you've paid off an
upgrade it's time to upgrade again. Charging a higher rate costs you
customers, and with fewer customers you don't even need the extra capacity you
just bought. Also many customers are on contracts so you can't increase rates
right away.

In contrast, with pay-per-GB, upgrades increase revenue automatically without
losing customers. You don't have to increase your rates and you can probably
even decrease them and still increase revenue.

------
kirinan
This is insane. I can't think of an industry that google is not trying to
compete in. Auto industry, space industry, internet of things industry (Nest),
internet/media industry, cable/internet provider industry, automobile
industry, robotics industry, software industry, smartphone industry, pc
industry now the telecom industry. I'm starting to expect Google to launch an
airline here pretty soon. How can they possibly compete in so many spaces and
compete well? Isn't this how Microsoft started doing business and failed at? I
just am at a lost of words at Google's diversification strategy. I don't want
to be a hater, but do we really want a singular company being the market
leader at everything if they do end up succeeding at everything?

~~~
pbiggar
This looks to me like a pure "commoditize your complements" play. All of
Google's products require great mobile internet everywhere. By getting
involved in that market, they can help make it much more competitive (at the
moment, cell reception is expensive and shit).

It's like Google Code. Google didn't particularly want to be in that business,
but Sourceforge was complete shit, and the open source ecosystem was key to
their business. So they competed, seriously improved on the status quo, and
when something better came along (github), they backed away, job done.

So leading this market doesn't matter to google. If they got completely
outcompeted, I'd say they'd be delighted.

~~~
grecy
I agree, and I always figured that's why they built Chrome. They needed the
other browsers to step up their game, especially js performance so they could
offer the kinds of web applications they wanted to.

~~~
Rainymood
And then .. no one did and now we're all stuck with Chrome.

~~~
organsnyder
Quite the contrary. The other browsers _did_ greatly improve their game.
However, Google got spoiled with their ability to add a new feature to the
browser whenever a Google product would benefit.

The cynical take on this is that Google just wanted to increase lock-in to its
own browser; however, I think it's more a case that Chrome is a runtime
environment for Google products as much as it is a web browser.

~~~
teddyh
Hmm, if this is true, then we should be able to expect similar changes in
Chrome like the changes made in Acrobat Reader when Adobe thought they had
complete lock-in in the PDF reader space.

------
luu
Who handles support for this? Is it Google, or one of the carriers that
Google's using? Who do you talk to if the handoff between carriers doesn't
quite work? I've skimmed the FAQ and I didn't see that listed in there.

For context, I use Google Voice, and while it's really nice in a lot of ways,
it has some unfortunate bugs that have persisted for years that it seems
impossible to get support for. I no longer unconditionally recommend it to
people because while being able to take calls from my computer and get
transcripts of voicemails is great, it also pseudo-randomly decides to only
direct some calls to devices where I'm not present with no notification on
devices that I'm using and also drops a small percentage of texts (my guess is
around 1%). Most people I talk to are horrified by the idea of texts getting
dropped, and I don't recommend GV to those folks, although it's fine if that's
a tradeoff you're ok with.

I understand that it's a beta and that bugs are expected, but it's a problem
when you run into a bug that interferes with your ability to use your phone
and there's no way to get support for it.

Phone carriers aren't exactly known for their stellar customer service, but at
least with them, if you call back enough times or escalate to higher level
support, you'll eventually get a resolution. As far as I can tell, that's not
true of Google's phone related products.

~~~
eli
The typical MVNO model would be for Google to handle all the support. I agree
that end-user support does not seem to be one of Google's strengths.

~~~
tonyhb
Their support for the Nexus line of phones has been outstanding. Anyone can
phone and speak to real humans with good tech knowledge, arrange a free
replacement for (first time) cracked screens, and get next day replacements.

I have no doubt that the support for this will be as good.

Now, their automated side of advertising is crappy unless you're a large
spender, but then that's just economies of scale.

~~~
peeters
> Their support for the Nexus line of phones has been outstanding

That hasn't been my experience, particularly with this issue:

[https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949](https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=82949)

Basically you have to roll a dice whether you'll have sound in voice calls on
a Nexus 4 running Lollipop. 500 comments, 1200 stars, and the issue is simply
closed as "wrong forum" with no other comment than "contact customer support".

I mean, I'm glad that Google supports so many camera features, as that's
clearly the most important function of a Nexus 4, but at the end of the day I
still expect my phone to be able to, you know, make voice calls.

Related HN discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8898669](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8898669)

~~~
bgc
Android support != Nexus hardware support. It seems like you're much better
off support-wise if your phone's screen is shattered than if you are having
any sort of issue with the software...

~~~
khuey
Ironic given that Google is generally believed to be a software company.

------
kqr2
Republic Wireless has been doing hybrid wifi / cell calling for some time:

[https://republicwireless.com/](https://republicwireless.com/)

Their unlimited 3G plan is $25.

Republic Wireless is owned by Bandwidth.com which also manages Google Voice
numbers:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth.com](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth.com)

~~~
eli
So has T-Mobile. Any sufficiently fast wifi network becomes a mini network
tower. It's a great idea.

~~~
toomuchtodo
To offload to wifi, the wifi doesn't even need to be fast. Voice traffic uses
very little bandwidth. The connection simply must have low packet loss and as
little latency as possible.

When in non-T-mobile coverage areas, I use my Verizon hotspot for wifi calling
with my T-Mobile iPhone, even if the hotspot can only provide 2/3G.

~~~
eli
True, that's what I meant by fast. I think it's only something like 30kbs, but
it needs to have low packet loss and low jitter or the call will be garbled.

------
nicpottier
Whoa, their international rates are crazy good. Same $10/gb across 120
countries.

Even limited to 256k/3G, that is still insane. Coverage list here:
[https://fi.google.com/about/rates/](https://fi.google.com/about/rates/)

That's enough of a perk that I'm considering moving to a Nexus 6.

~~~
cthalupa
Ouch. I didn't notice that it's limited to 256k/3G.

T-Mobile offers unlimited data internationally as part of their simple choice
unlimited plan. It's limited to 256k speeds (Which in my experience, I have
gotten basically exactly 256k when I've used it in the Netherlands and South
Africa). You have the option of buying 4G speed bandwidth for a fairly
reasonable price - though still a bit higher than the Google Fi data rates.

I didn't notice the rate limiting asterisk until your comment, and this kind
of kills it for me. It was much more appealing when I thought I would be
charged the same for data in the US and abroad.

~~~
_delirium
> You have the option of buying 4G speed bandwidth for a fairly reasonable
> price - though still a bit higher than the Google Fi data rates.

About 10-15x higher, it looks like. :/ Around $100-150/GB, depending on the
pass length, e.g. 100MB usable in 24 hours for $15, or 500MB usable in 2 weeks
for $50.

~~~
cthalupa
Ouch. I was completely misremembering the cost on the international data
passes. I thought it was about $30/GB, but I have no idea where that came
from.

I suppose it's still better than Google - the rate limited data is still free,
as opposed to paying full price for it, and nothing forces you to buy the full
throughput data passes.

------
_stephan
The body font ("RoboDraft", #757575) is somewhat unreadable (not enough
contrast) on a Chrome/Windows 7 machine with a 1920x1200 display.

~~~
morganvachon
Same here, same browser and OS at 1600x900. It's somewhat easier to read on
Firefox, but it could stand some better contrast there too.

------
wting
For family plans T-Mobile's Simple Choice Plan beats Google Fi in most
respects:

\- No contract

\- Unlimited domestic talk, intl talk from US to ~100 countries

\- Competitive intl talk

\- Unlimited domestic + intl text

\- 2.5GB 4G LTE data

\- Unlimited domestic + intl 2G data (128Kbps vs Google's 3G 256Kbps)

\- Use any GSM phone, not just Nexus 6

\- Phones purchased from T-Mobile come with Wi-Fi calling

Most of my family members portion is $30 / mo. Some higher bandwidth users pay
$40 / mo for 4.5GB LTE and data rollover. Our family travels a lot in Asia,
having unlimited data / text is really useful.

However Google Fi looks like it's really appealing for low usage, single
individual plans.

~~~
MBlume
Look at the name. I think their goal is that most of the time when you're out
and about, you're connected to Wi-Fi. I think the cellular partners are a
crutch to get them there. If they manage that, you'll wind up paying a lot
less than with T-Mobile.

~~~
hennaheto
I usually don't have wifi while I am out and about, most stores at least
require you to hit accept on their terms and conditions before you can
actually connect. Maybe if they showed wifi hotspots on their coverage map I
could get behind this idea.

~~~
leetNightshade
Yeah, I don't know how they do this, but Google says they have pre-approved
WiFi hotspots the phone will automatically connect to. From this, I wonder if
security will be a concern for some of these hotspots.

------
amalag
This is doing the same things as Republic Wireless. Calls and texts over wifi
to keep their carrier costs down. RW is cheaper at $10 a month without data
and $25 for unlimited 3G.

With RW you need their customized android phone but they are cheap. $650 for
the phone is steep (or a credit pull).

~~~
mr337
Do keep in mind they actively are against tethering, which stinks if your in a
pinch and need internet for a laptop or w/e. Also afaik the phone you get from
them can't really be used anywhere else. Other Sprint MVNO like ting won't
accept RW phone. Maybe Spring themselves will but I'm currently in the process
of moving and have a dud for a phone now.

~~~
amalag
Sell it on ebay to another RW person. I sold my two old ones when I moved to
the Moto G and got some money for them. I was surprised because the Moto G is
totally worth it and I would not have recommended those old models to anyone.

------
electriclove
ARGH.. Google Apps domains not supported. "For now, Project Fi is available
only for accounts with an @gmail.com address"

~~~
higherpurpose
I don't know why this becomes an issue with every single service Google
_launches_. It's pretty clear Google's strategy is not to launch Apps support
for any product that is either beta or immediately post-beta, and it wants to
wait a bit until things get stable enough to use for enterprise.

~~~
bsimpson
It's frustrating because Google Apps has been the solution for bring-your-own-
domain email, and many people use it as such. If I could use my own domain on
a consumer Gmail account, I would.

Google acts like it's just for enterprise customers, but that's not how a
whole lot of people use it.

~~~
joshmn
I have joshhasacell@gmail for my devices, and then josh@josh[.mn] for my
personal stuff.

This is exactly why I don't just phone@josh[.mn]

------
ah-
The big thing about this from my perspective is that it abolishes roaming. One
plan, and you pay the same whether you use it in your home country or anywhere
else. I'm not aware that anybody else is offering that, especially not at that
price.

As a German living in the UK i currently juggle two SIM cards, and whenever I
fly back home I have to mess with the data flatrate there since it's worth
activating the monthly flatrate plan even if I just use it for a day. And then
I have to make sure that I don't forget to cancel the flatrate when I leave
again. Not to mention that this means I have two phone numbers, and I'm not
reachable on at least one of them all the time.

~~~
koyote
Roaming will hopefully soon be abolished throughout Europe
([http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-
europe-26866966](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26866966)). Although
there have been talks that this might be delayed by a couple of years.

Then in the UK there's Three who basically abolished roaming in 18 countries
(sadly not Germany for now). This includes unlimited (25gb) 4g, which is
pretty awesome and better than the 256k Google is offering.

~~~
zurn
That article is a year+ old. It was predictably shot down. Remember that the
EU parliament is pretty toothless.

[https://euobserver.com/news/128133](https://euobserver.com/news/128133) &
[http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2015/04/14/european-
government...](http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2015/04/14/european-governments-
parliament-still-far-apart-on-net-neutrality/) have some of the current status
of what's left of it. Currently it looks like there's a week or so of "roaming
allowance" per year, and even this would only come into affect after a years-
long transition period.

Telecoms are good at lobbying.

------
JTon
I found the link to the coverage map in the FAQ: >
[https://fi.google.com/coverage](https://fi.google.com/coverage)

Looks like it blankets most of Canada with 2G service. I guess through roaming
agreements from Sprint/T-Mo. I wonder if they are selling to Canadian
residents?

~~~
jayhuang
My first assumption was they don't cater to Canadians as usual, but after
seeing the coverage map I was hopeful.

Attempted to request an invite but it doesn't allow Canadian postal codes (ie:
V5H 2T3), only stuff like 90210.

Sigh.

------
yathern
On an unrelated note - very cool to see Polymer used in production by Google.
I was afraid it was left to the wayside.

~~~
Everlag
I noticed it with the paper dropdown. As long as they're dogfooding the
platform I'm happy to develop on it!

Polymer actually has 0.8 coming up soon with some pretty significant changes;
definitely not left to the wayside.

------
freefrancisco
This will be awesome once Google makes a nexus that can actually fit in my
pocket. I've only switched from nexus to iPhone a few months ago when I lost
my nexus 5 and found that nexus 6 is gigantic. The iPhone is pretty but I miss
the nexus.

------
jscottmiller
Compared to what I can get from Verizon (US), the international usage is
amazing:

> Pay one rate for data around the world

> In 120+ countries, data usage costs the same $10 per GB as it does in the US
> (data speed is limited to 256kbps/3G). Check email, get directions, and keep
> in touch with friends and family when on your trip. Also, call around the
> world for 20c per minute and send unlimited international texts.

------
ismail
This is very interesting, I have over 10 years experience working in the
mobile telecoms industry. Here are my theories on how this could change the
market/analysis:

1\. This reduces the friction in switching networks, no 'SIM Card' Lock in.
It's a pain to keep having to switch sim cards. Some people carry 2 phones
here in Africa so they can take advantage of different deals by different
carriers.

2\. Due to Point 1, This will face push back from carriers

3\. Unless there is some incentive for them to get this carriers want to make
switching costs as high as possible. To avoid churn.

If it succeeds:

4\. This changes the game in voice calling. Currently you sim is linked to a
specific carrier, you only logon to their network all traffic (Local,
International Voice, SMS, Data) is carried by them. What if you could route
International calls traffic via X, and then local calls via Y?

5\. WhatsAPP is most likely the company that will get the largest payoff from
this. They are a few years ahead of everyone else, and have just launched
voice calling.

6\. Super-normal profits are over for operators

7\. Actual Network quality (vs marketing about network quality) will become
more important.

8\. This will create an opportunity for players that are focused purely on
network quality, and not marketing.

9\. Carriers spend tons on marketing, failed product launches etc. At times
this outstrips their engineering spend. Some even believe this is not a core
competency and outsource IT/Engineering. Any carrier that does the opposite,
could disrupt the incumbents

10\. The base-stations (BSS/BSC) becomes more valuable, companies that own
these have high value assets. They could then lease it out to other players. A
few years back operators in Africa were selling off their base stations to
American Towers [0] to fund their marketing budgets. At the time, i thought
this was not a very good decision. Now i am convinced it was a terrible
decision. The network of base stations is probably one of the most valuable
assets a carrier has.

If i think of anything else, will post back here.

[0] [http://www.americantower.com/corporateus/global-country-
sele...](http://www.americantower.com/corporateus/global-country-
selector/index.htm)

~~~
ismail
11\. There is a massive industry from manufacturing [1] to distributing sim
cards and getting them into the hands of customers. I do not see a bright
future for them.

[http://www.gemalto.com/techno/sim](http://www.gemalto.com/techno/sim)

------
yunong
This is great. I was hoping the data charges would be cheaper. The T-mobile
$30 prepaid plan gives you unlimited data with the first 5 gigs at LTE speeds.
You also get 100 minutes. This works incredibly well for me as I mostly use my
phone for data. If I need to make a call, I'll use google hangouts over LTE.

~~~
emir_
$30 for 5 gigs? When did T-Mobile start offering this? Why am I then paying
$50 for 2 gigs?

~~~
leetNightshade
They've offered it for a while I think? It's a pre-paid, look in Other monthly
plans. It's pretty hidden, I don't think they want everyone to know about it.
Also can be Walmart only, but I think you can do it online just fine.
[http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-plans](http://prepaid-
phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-plans)

------
ssharp
Can someone explain why mobile data is now the expense driver for phone plans
and why it's so expensive? It's obvious that data usage has skyrocketed now
that smartphones have taken off, but is all that data usage draining mobile
networks? Is there not enough capacity? Or is it just that it's so expensive
to build? Is it such a massive barrier-to-entry that rates aren't really
competitive?

~~~
panopticon
I'm not terribly knowledgeable in this area, but I think part of it has to do
with the availability of frequencies to do data communication over. They price
data so people curb their data usage thus preventing crowding on the already
limited bandwidth.

Of course, this could just be FUD I've been fed.

~~~
yellowapple
Except that Sprint and T-Mobile do offer unlimited data plans (without
throttling) and T-Mobile simply throttles instead of charging overages for its
non-unlimited plans. I've used both and have yet to encounter issues with
congestion (though I don't live in a big city, so maybe it's different in that
environment).

Non-unlimited plans with throttling instead of overage charges would probably
be the best solution to overcrowding issues in the short-term.

------
SwellJoe
This is _almost_ cheap enough to pay for the new device I would need to use
it. I could save ~$25 a month given my current usage patterns over the
T-Mobile plan I have. I imagine users of Verizon or AT&T, which are quite a
bit more expensive for the same amount of data, might consider this a huge
bargain. Certainly being able to migrate across two decent networks makes it
more likely to be competitive with the better/bigger networks of Verizon and
AT&T.

I wonder, and can't seem to find in my cursory glance through the FAQ, how
this handles regular numbers vs Google Voice numbers. I currently use two
numbers on my phone. My Google Voice number (which is how I assume this thing
does what it does), and the "native" cell number I've had for nearly 20 years.
I know I could port the native number to Google Voice, but I currently use
both numbers...so, that wouldn't really work, as I'd still need to be able to
use my Google Voice number, too. It's a little clumsy on current Android
phones (you choose which number to use for outgoing calls either at call-time
or by-default), but it works. If this only works for Google Voice service, it
might be a bit challenging to switch.

Also, they say this supports MMS. Does that mean sending MMS is _finally_
coming to Google Voice?

------
blisterpeanuts
Nowhere does the FAQ address this, but I'm assuming that my home and office
wifi data use on my phone would continue to be unlimited? They're not going to
somehow meter my home wifi use? My wife uses her phone all the time for home
internet surfing and email.

------
hayksaakian
This (metered data) seems anti-thetical to google

Google wants you to use the internet as much as possible.

They want you to use google search, watch youtube videos, check gmail, write
google documents.

Now you're discouraged from doing all those things due to metered data.

The Business Model of Google Fi seems extremely short sighted,

\-----

For context: I'm using metroPCS with a nexus 5. I get Unlimited 4G on
T-Mobile's network for $60/month.

They Offer lower amounts of data (ex: 5 GB) for $50 per month but after 5 GB
you just get 3G data.

~~~
profmonocle
From what I've been told, Sprint and T-Mobile charge MVNOs (networks using
their infrastructure) by the byte. Google can't offer unlimited data without
running their own network or taking big losses on customers that use a lot of
data.

There are no data caps on Google Fiber, so they seem to realize that caps
aren't effective for managing congestion. But for now they have to play along
with the big networks' models.

------
nathas
So if I jump onto an unsecured hotspot, you're telling me 100% of my traffic
is being routed through a Google proxy first? The same company that already
has all of my email, docs, photos, and chats? I guess they already had my
browsing history with Chrome, but wow... that's a lot.

------
vjdhama
It's amazing that $10/GB is about 4 times amount local telecom providers
charge for 3G in india.

~~~
higherpurpose
The price is a little disappointing. I expected Google to compete on price as
well, but it may not even be its fault if its partners don't want to undercut
it on prices, and they just allow Google to compete on services.

~~~
ChrisClark
Yeah, since Google is just buying service from the others, they probably don't
have much room.

------
hobarrera
> Coverage in 120+ countries

20USD is ridiculously expensive in some countries. I understand that this may
be cheap in the US (is it?), but it's more than twice what I pay in latin
america.

And the price goes up if you want data - which you will in 2015.

~~~
__xtrimsky
Well it's meant only for the American Market (no 4G elsewhere and calls very
expensive). So that Americans traveling aboard don't have to pay insane
amounts of money.

I for example have to get a new sim card each time I travel to a new country,
it is a pain. With Google I can just keep their plan, and not worry about
getting a local sim card. Most americans don't travel for an entire month, so
we have to pay our monthly plan anyways. This just allows us to use our phone
for free without paying extra in other countries.

------
martin_bech
Just want to hasle you guys with danish pricing

For about $28 a month i Get ALL this:

4 hours talk time 5GB 4g data Unlimited text

And these services are included FREE

HBO Nordic (Hbo NOW) Telmore Music (Think Spotify) TV2 Play (Think mini mini
HULU) C More PLAY (More streaming) Mofibo (Netflix for ebooks) Min Bio
(Netflix for kidshows) politiken (Newspaper) Ekstra Bladet Plus (Newspaper)
Euroman (Magazine think GQ) Eurowoman (Magazine think ladies GQ) Gastro
(Magazine) Rum (Magazine)

[https://www.telmore.dk/telmoreplay?icid=home-
playlightpakke-...](https://www.telmore.dk/telmoreplay?icid=home-
playlightpakke-laesmere)

~~~
_delirium
If you never leave the country, mobile prices in Denmark are pretty good. But
it's a small country so not very hard to cross a border, e.g. Malmö is only a
30-minute train ride from Copenhagen, so I find myself there often. And for
that usage, the Danish providers' prices are quite bad. For example the one
you linked, Telmore, charges a ridiculous 1,86 kr per _megabyte_ (i.e.
€250/GB) for roaming data in Sweden. I would be very happy to have Google's
$10/GB roaming prices, or even something close to it. Instead it seems the
only solution in Denmark is to have a whole bag full of SIM cards (Danish,
Swedish, German, ...), and swap them every time you cross a border.

~~~
martin_bech
You Could Choose 3 with 3 Like Home. The plan "FIN TIL DE FLESTE" is unlimited
calls, text, Free roaming in 19-20 countries incl. sweeden and 5gb data. its
25USD or 170kr a month and it includes free call roaming, which google fi
dosen't. Same plan on google fi is 70USD.
[https://www.3.dk/abonnementer/mobil/](https://www.3.dk/abonnementer/mobil/)

------
davesque
Why is it that companies these days are so incredibly bad at simply saying
what it is they're trying to sell you?

~~~
bobbles
Lmn4d3 stand incorporated.

"do you sell lemonade?"

"what we offer is a new way to experience the quenching of thirst"

------
MaysonL
Something that isn't clear: is it possible to attach to non-public wi-fi
access points? Also: do they charge the same rate per gig for wi-fi data as
for LTE data? If so, this seems like a real ripoff.

------
profmonocle
I wonder how integrated this will be with Google Voice. For instance, will the
voice/SMS component have the same spam filtering and Gmail integration that
GVoice users get?

------
tshtf
With Cricket Wireless ([https://www.cricketwireless.com/cell-phone-
plans](https://www.cricketwireless.com/cell-phone-plans)), I can use the
vastly superior AT&T network and spend $60/month for 10GB of data, plus
unlimited voice and text.

This would cost $120/month on Project Fi, and I'd be forced to use T-Mobile
and Sprint, both of which have inferior coverage in the US.

~~~
zephyrthenoble
Do you use 10GB of data a month?

~~~
brewdad
Cricket is still cheaper on their lowest plan $40 for unlimited talk and text
and 2.5GB. Fi would be $45. Auto-pay on Cricket brings it down to $35

------
Osiris
I'm currently on Republic Wireless. The base rate (call/text only) is $10 vs
$20 for Google. RW has a $25/mn 3G plan and a $40/mn LTE plan (5GB). Google Fi
has the advantage of always having LTE speeds.

RW is able to have cheaper rates because they are doing WiFi calling, which is
exactly what Google is doing; no doubt leveraging their Google Voice/Hangouts
infrastructure to handle WiFi calling.

------
joshfraser
I want this as my travel phone. And I love that there's no contract. Not sure
how I feel about Google pulling a man-in-the-middle on all of my internet
traffic, texts and calls. Kinda scary that they automatically pipe all wifi
through their VPN, but I guess they have 90% of that data already and Google
are probably safer than the random coffee shop wifi people are used to
connecting to.

~~~
wtallis
I suspect part of the motivation for the automatic VPN on public WiFi comes
from Republic Wireless's troubles with firewalls that interfere with standard
VoIP protocols.

------
aerovistae
"Request Invite" \--> 404.

Good start.

EDIT: Only if the window is sized small enough to trigger the mobile layout
for the navbar. Kind of funny in view of Mobilegeddon.

~~~
mcintyre1994
404 on Nexus 7 portrait, works in landscape. Weird.

~~~
joshmn
I don't even know how.

------
magic5227
Two observations:

1) Terrible name, really awful. Fi? I guess if it's "project" maybe this
wasn't public-brand ready?

2) Why wouldn't someone choose the t-mobile unlimited plan vs this one?

3) For the refund policy, why wouldn't everyone sign up for the lowest plan?
The presentation is confusing, just say 1gb min and $10 for each gig after
that.

~~~
yellowapple
> Why wouldn't someone choose the t-mobile unlimited plan vs this one?

The "compelling" feature is the support for multiple carriers (T-Mobile and
Sprint) without having to do some zany dual-SIM setup or somesuch.

To me, though, that's barely any consolation for the lack of an unlimited
plan, which is a deal-breaker, and which is why - no matter how "good" Verizon
and AT&T (for example) advertise themselves to be - I'll never switch back to
them until they provide an unlimited data plan. T-Mobile's unlimited plan (and
even its non-unlimited plans) are a _way_ better deal, since you're never
charged overages (unlike with Sprint's non-unlimited plans, all of AT&T and
Verizon's plans, and - now - Google Fi).

~~~
magic5227
Agreed. Most of my usage is in cities where both Sprint and T-mobile have
great coverage. Lack of unlimited is a deal-breaker (or at least higher data
tiers)

------
suyash
Sucks that it only works for Nexus 6 and only for US phone numbers.

~~~
tptacek
It only works for Google phones? There isn't an antitrust issue there?

~~~
davmre
It only works specifically with the Nexus 6 (not other Google phones),
apparently for technical reasons involving network-switching capabilities.
Possibly that's BS, but assuming it's legit I'd imagine they'll try to get the
technology into other makers' phones in the future.

Though even if they didn't, Google doesn't have a monopoly position in phone
hardware so it's not clear antitrust would come into play.

~~~
sliverstorm
First of all WiFi calling is still a specialty thing requiring custom firmware
(see: you cannot BYOD on Republic Wireless)

Second of all the N6 is one of the few phones with dual GSM and CDMA radios,
and T-Mobile/Sprint are GSM/CDMA, respectively.

------
DanBlake
No mention of family plan or data sharing. If I have 3 lines that use 10gb
between them, will this still be cheaper?

~~~
Navarr
"No, we only support individual accounts during Project Fi's Early Access
Program. If multiple people on your current wireless plan are interested in
joining our early access program, each user is required to have a Project Fi
account."

[https://fi.google.com/about/faq/#plan-and-
pricing-8](https://fi.google.com/about/faq/#plan-and-pricing-8)

------
salem
What I'm curious about is the privacy policy. With the automatic VPN usage on
wifi and the potential network architecture of the MVNO, Google could be in
the path of all your cell phone data traffic. The opportunity to learn more
about you for advertising purposes is very very high.

~~~
robmcm
Whilst I am sure current networks providers are keen to exploit your "private"
communications, the thought of Google gaining even more power and insight into
your lives is scary.

If you are using Google services and an Android phone, there is almost nothing
left they don't have control over.

------
snowwindwaves
it's not explicitly spelled out that I can see, but data used over wifi
doesn't count towards the cellular network data usage at $10/gb right?

------
chillingeffect
Does anyone know if they are data-mining the phone calls?

~~~
kh_hk
The possibility of doing that is already there on Android. Try calling a
number that has a public profile (like a restaurant), and you'll see how their
avatar appears as a contact. That particular request is perfectly mineable.

------
chintan
"Once you get an invitation, you’ll also need a Nexus 6—the first smartphone
to work with our network of networks. You can buy one from Project Fi when you
sign up or bring one you already use."

=> seriously. its a "Device lockin" instead of "network lockin"

~~~
kevincrane
I think that's a hardware issue, not an attempt to lock you in. (I assume) you
need something special in order to seamlessly switch between networks/wifi.
That or it's their own way to filter out demand while they start slow and test
it out.

------
miah_
I already have metropcs, its $40/mo for unlimited everything. My plan covers
unlimited up to 3g, for 4g or LTE I get 2gb/mo. If I wanted unlimited though,
its only $60/mo. How is $100 for 10GB even comparable? Metropcs also has no
contract required.

------
Zigurd
The only unique feature I see is WiFi<->mobile handoff, aka fixed/mobile
integration.

Apart from that, I get the same service from Google Voice and T-Mobile, except
I get supposedly un-capped, un-throttled data (I haven't tried to test this)
from T-Mo.

~~~
nsm
Republic Wireless does the handoff and is slightly cheaper. With Google you
buy a Nexus 6 ~$650, RW needs a Moto X ~$300, so I guess it is a cheaper out
of pocket cost.

~~~
wtallis
RW also has the Moto G and Moto E for $150 and $100, and even cheaper plans if
you don't want cellular data.

------
RX14
This seems insanely expensive to me! Three offers a sim-only deal that works
with all phones with unlimited data for just £17 ($25), and roaming in Europe
will be free after December 2015! Are mobile plans significantly more
expensive in the US?

------
mmastrac
Is this a dual-MVNO? They talk about switching between two different LTE
providers.

~~~
rcchen
It switches between T-Mobile and Sprint.

~~~
shaanr
sounds like its excellent for Coachella.

------
davidw
Interesting - I like the data roaming, but the pricing isn't very good
compared to what I pay here in Italy, which is under 20 euros for 2 GB a month
on the provider's network, 400 minutes and 100 sms's.

------
laurentoget
In my experience, video chat through Google hangout uses about 1G/hour. $10/G
translates to $10/hour. This is a significant cost for a remote worker using
video chat as a routine meeting venue.

~~~
imaginenore
1 Gigabyte per hour? Are you really chatting at 22 Mbit/s? That's like half
Bluray quality.

~~~
laurentoget
I am just reporting a ballpark figure from the data usage i get when actually
using hangout for meetings on 4G on my phone.

That said at 3600s per hour 1GB/h would be 2.2Mb/s, which does not seem
outrageous for a 8 people meeting

------
jmilloy
Can anyone explain why the data charges are set up how they are? Why have you
choose a "plan" in increments of $10 and then refund/charge you (per MB?) for
going under/over your "plan"? Why not just charge you for usage at the end of
the month? It comes out the same, and one is weird and the other is very
simple.

Republic's Maestro seems to be similar: "Get paid back" for data you don't
use. Why? It just makes me keep rereading looking for the catch.

------
jokoon
What are the pro/cons of wifi versus 3G/4G ? I guess Wifi is a simpler
hardware standard ?

Or does 3g/4g enable more distance and mobility and allow towers to "connect"
more terminals at the same time?

I'm puzzled by wireless data layers as google had some wimax project in mind,
but I've no clue how those technologies work. I can understand wired networks,
but wireless seems like a mystery to me (I also wish there would be more open
standards for long distance data channels).

------
hughes
Looks great for international travelers, but this would more than double my
$30 monthly unlimited data plan from T-Mobile. I used 5.2GB last month, so
that would cost me $73.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
You must have a grandfathered plan.

I had a grandfathered plan with unlimited data, until I gave it up in exchange
for Canada service.

~~~
hughes
Nope, just signed up last month. It's still available[0].

[0] [http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-monthly-plans](http://prepaid-
phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-monthly-plans)

------
yellowapple
Without unlimited data, this is useless to me. If T-Mobile and Sprint can pull
off unlimited data plans, then so should Google ( _especially_ if Google Fi
uses - you guessed it - both Sprint and T-Mobile as its partner carriers). The
_least_ they can do is offer a "you get so-and-so gigabytes of 4G data before
we throttle you down to 2G, and we won't charge you anything extra" like what
T-Mobile does for its non-unlimited plans.

~~~
VikingCoder
I'm pretty sure the accountants and engineers at Google got together and
figured out that "unlimited data" plans are going to go bye-bye. For everyone.
All providers.

As people use more and more data, it just won't make economic sense to offer
your customers unlimited data.

If Google had offered unlimited data, and then later canceled it, everyone
would be bitching about them killing the competition, anti-competitive
behavior, etc.

~~~
yellowapple
> As people use more and more data, it just won't make economic sense to offer
> your customers unlimited data.

It makes perfect economic sense. Users who expect to need a lot of data (e.g.
anyone who watches or wants to watch HD videos over a cellular connection,
which is a lot of people) would be better served by T-Mobile's or Sprint's
unlimited (non-throttled) data plans (which run for somewhere between $70 and
$90 per month, IIRC), and everyone else would be better served by T-Mobile's
throttled data plans, since you'll never be charged overages.

At least AT&T and Verizon can claim that they have a stronger network with
better coverage than T-Mobile or Sprint (which is why a lot of people go with
them and are willing to be screwed over by them). Google Fi can't even offer
that if it's going to be using Sprint and T-Mobile as its backends; combine
this with the lack of unlimited data plans _and_ only supporting the Nexus 6
with zero indication of when other phones will be supported (if ever), Google
Fi's dead in the water.

In other words:

> I'm pretty sure the accountants and engineers at Google got together and
> figured out that "unlimited data" plans are going to go bye-bye. For
> everyone. All providers.

Then I'm pretty sure all the accountants and engineers at Google are
incompetent.

~~~
VikingCoder
I'm not sure you're getting me. I'm saying that eventually T-Mobile and Sprint
will not be able to offer $70 or $90 a month for unlimited data. Or if they
do, it will be so throttled as to be completely meaningless.

I'm predicting that as more people use more of their data, the network will
not grow fast enough to support the total bandwidth. The fact that they can
currently offer "unlimited" is a temporary condition, based on the
distribution of network users' bandwidth. As consumption grows, it gets to the
point where they can't actually offer it any more.

That's my prediction, and I bet Google made the same prediction.

Instead, you're acting like I don't understand that people WANT unlimited
data, especially at the prices it's being offered at today.

~~~
yellowapple
And I'm saying that getting rid of unlimited data doesn't solve the problem of
network congestion. Actually putting work into the network _does_ solve the
problem of network congestion.

Don't punish users because you're too lazy to provide them with a network
that's actually designed to handle current/future data demand.

~~~
VikingCoder
And I'm predicting that it will be economically impossible to handle future
data demand, if you allow "unlimited data."

Even with the best intentions. You would need to be subsidized by the
government to provide it.

Since so few people TODAY currently make use of their unlimited data, the
network can afford to offer those terms. And they found that by offering those
terms, they attracted a disproportionate number of customers. In short, it was
popular and profitable.

But at some point, the aggregate network demand will exceed even the
THEORETICAL network capacity, if you offer your customers unlimited data, and
demand goes up the way I think it will.

Or in essence, you will need to limit bandwidth to the point that calling it
"unlimited" is just ridiculous.

~~~
yellowapple
> But at some point, the aggregate network demand will exceed even the
> THEORETICAL network capacity, if you offer your customers unlimited data,
> and demand goes up the way I think it will.

At which point you build out the network so that it can handle the increased
demand. The problem of congestion doesn't magically go away if you ditch
unlimited plans for pay-per-gigabyte plans.

Even barring that, the wired broadband world already addresses this by making
_speed_ the useful commodity instead of _quantity_ , and there's very little
reason why the wireless world couldn't do the same. "Our networks are getting
congested, so we're going to switch to a new model where you can pay cheap
rates for 2G speed or pay more for 4G speed or pay something in between for 3G
speed or pay top-dollar for our newfangled 5G" is a much better answer than
"our networks are getting congested, so we're going to just cap users' usage
of it and hope the problem goes away".

That, in short, is what Google Fi _should_ be doing. That would be an
actually-compelling reason to switch to it instead of T-Mobile.

Until then, T-Mobile will continue to get my business, and T-Mobile will
therefore be at least that much more incentivized to provide unlimited data
plans.

------
Shivetya
One day it would be nice to not have large chunks of the country not covered
by good cell service. Since this service can make calls over WiFi that would
remedy some of the situations I have been in where I had WiFi at a campground
or similar but cell was spotty or non existent. Granted making a call over the
WiFi provided at some camps might not be all the possible.

edit, another area I found little to no cell service was the turnpikes through
Virgina and West Virgina.

------
johladam
I'm hoping that their Wifi <\--> 4G handoff for calls works better than the
T-Mobile handoff. I've noticed that on our enterprise network the extra time
it takes to authenticate causes the call to drop. I do understand that the
problem has to do with the software implementation and not android, but I'm
assuming systems like that are reasonably similar or are provided by some
outside vendor?

------
wnevets
Im guessing this doesn't piggy back on tmobile music streaming?

I'm currently paying $32 for 5GB on tmobile, google wants $50 for the same
network.

~~~
yellowapple
To clarify: Google wants $50 for the same network while replacing T-Mobile's
throttling scheme with a more traditional "we'll charge you more" scheme.

T-Mobile's the better deal here by a long shot.

------
laurentoget
Reading through the comments here it seems pretty sad that between
international differences and baroque pricing schemes, nobody knows with
certainty how much they are paying for their connectivity, or whether $10/GB
is a good price or not. You would think considering the size of this market
there would be some mechanism to establish a fair price by now.

------
iamdanfox
I often have to manually disconnect from a slow wifi connection and switch to
4G. Project Fi doing it automatically looks great!

Those tariffs seem pretty steep though - I'm getting 3GB of 4G data for £15 a
month [1]. Is $50/mo normal in the states?

[1]: [https://giffgaff.com/goodybags-4g](https://giffgaff.com/goodybags-4g)

------
GigabyteCoin
Two things I notice looking at the coverage map.[0]

1\. Wow, it's available in Canada right off the bat. This must be a first for
Google.

2\. Does nobody in Montana own a cell phone? Alberta is probably equally empty
as Montana, and yet almost their entire provice has coverage.

[0] [https://fi.google.com/coverage](https://fi.google.com/coverage)

~~~
waterlesscloud
Does all that region above Edmonton really have 2g coverage? How? Why?

~~~
kijin
Oil sands.

------
vlunkr
I knew when before I watched the video that it would be fluffy and
meaningless. I was right. What's with tech videos lately?

------
DannoHung
With the per GB charging, is that only data usage routed through cell towers
or do they charge for roaming wifi usage as well?

~~~
billyhoffman
This is absolutely a question that should be in their FAQ. Was wondering the
same thing. Sadly the FAQ is full of marketing/PR non-anwsers...

------
DEinspanjer
When I bought my Nexus 6 from T-Mobile, one of the things the CSRs told me was
that it would soon be supporting Wifi calling similar to how the other carrier
branded phones did. They were just waiting on an update to Android.

Now this comes out, and I wonder if the update is still happening or if
Google's answer will be to switch to Fi instead.

------
myrandomcomment
With my family we have 5 phones, 3 iPads and 1 hotspot. 2 of the phones are
unlimited data with international voice / text and free 3G international data.
Other stuff is on 5Gb data. Cost around $300 per month (t-mobile). The Google
math does not seem to work for me. Now I will say t-mobiles coverage could be
better.

------
pepijndevos
This reminds me of Anqor: [http://www.anqor.com/](http://www.anqor.com/)

They are basically emulating SIM cards from a database to give you the best
rates for where you are.

Is Google doing something similar, or are they just big enough to make good
deals with telcos internationally?

------
bernardlunn
Hacker News is great. Saw the video and got nothing, came here and got the
facts. Side note: Google has been taken over by marketers, the engineers who
built this must be cringing. Certainly not a startup way to do this, feels a
bit like Wave ie massive ambition, not useful out of the box to anybody.

------
legulere
Funnily this is quite similar to the main plot of the movie "Kingsman: The
Secret Service"

------
trequartista
My current AT&T plan gives me unlimited calling and text along with 15GB of
data per month for $90. Fi would definitely be expensive for me for the same
data usage. I've signed up for an invite nonetheless (I have a Nexus 6) and
interested to see how it goes.

------
brianbreslin
So this only works with a Nexus6, but does anyone know of a comparable plan
that is month to month that supports international roaming? I've got an
unlocked Blu Android phone I was hoping to use overseas for traveling through
Asia. Is t-mobile the only one?

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desireco42
International rates are way too high, 12c for landline minute or 31 for
cellphone in Serbia is ripoff.

They are doing Republic Wireless by Google. This is not bad and might make
more competition. Maybe not many users will use it, but there will be
perception of one more option.

------
esalman
It is a great move by Google because unlike most other Google products,
internet is a necessity.

------
vinay427
Unfortunately they haven't launched family plans yet, so I would be paying
more than I do with T-mobile for virtually the same plan (in addition to
Sprint coverage, which isn't all that useful in my area). Hopefully it comes
soon.

~~~
DINKDINK
Agreed, These offerings are competitive if you have a Nexus 6 (or want to buy
one) and don't have a family plan.

Rates on T-Mobile can get down to $25/2.5Gb of data/month

------
tootie
They are basically adding a wireless network as an paid add-on to hangouts. I
love it.

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_jnc
Video borrows a lot from Apple's "Designed by Apple in California":
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyQfye4vAQ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyQfye4vAQ8)

------
anilshanbhag
This does look promising but it is in no way cheaper than existing options. I
am currently using a family plan from AT&T to get 1GB (10GB shared among 10 to
be precise) + unlimited calls+text for $27.17 per month.

~~~
johladam
Are you on a single plan with 9 other people? If so, that really isn't a fair
comparison. A single line on T-Mobile is a fair comparison.

------
donkeyd
It surprises me every time how expensive data is in the US. I get unlimited
text, 300 minutes and 6GB of data(4G) for about $40 a month.

I make a lot of my calls through Facetime now, so I don't need unlimited
minutes.

------
spullara
This is too little too late. AT&T nearly matches this with a much better
network. The international stuff is interesting but not that interesting with
the current plans available from carriers.

------
bg0
Unfortunately I think I'll need to stick with buying my phones for half the
cost and sticking with a 2 year contract with a company like Verizon.

I can't justify switching and needing to buy a $650 phone.

~~~
ngoldbaum
But you spend way more than that over the course of the contract.

------
UUMMUU
Everything about this sounds better than my current plan with Verizon except
the coverage. Looking at their coverage map in central Virginia scares me
because of the large areas of no coverage.

------
pikachu_is_cool
It's a shame this is probably never going to come to the iPhone...

------
josefresco
Besides home where I amazingly get "4G" where I travel is 2G so yeah - the
irony is I'm typing this while using a Verizon LTE Mifi hostpot from said "2G"
location.

------
dubcanada
Their roaming cost for data, is actually less then I would pay for data with a
Canadian company. If it wasn't for the voice (and only 3g), I would totally
sign up.

------
eonw
this is excellent, someone well funded to take on the cellular companies that
have been asleep at the wheel with pricing, customer service and innovation
for years.

------
datashovel
The company who figures out how to make mobile data cheap will absolutely
crush the competition.

Let's hope that's Google's intent with this project.

------
motyar
Is it something similar like..

When one of my friend calls from UAE ( to India) using internet, I got call
from a local indian number.

Not sure what system is that.

------
jasonkostempski
Couldn't the separation of talk/text and data be eliminated? Is there a
difference anymore or is it just marketing?

------
sydney6
Why does Google keeps over-engineering every single product except the one
thing they are making money of: Google Search?!?

------
blueskin_
I would love this... if it wasn't by google. I'd rather not have them digging
through yet more personal data :(

------
beamatronic
$47.04 per month ( plus taxes and fees ) for 2 years, assuming you don't
already have their phone. Not bad.

------
methou
I'm getting one, to use in China, without censorship. The problem is, I will
stuck with an Android phone :(

------
ausjke
the only question is that, it's unavailable and you need an invite and then
wait, this becomes the norm these days, you can announce something for sale at
the first sight, then let the potential customer to wait, don't feel too good
about this kind of sales/marketing method myself.

------
jebblue
It's cool but I ran the numbers and staying with our carrier seems like it's
cheaper.

------
fweespeech
Does anyone else find it hilarious you can't sign up with your Google Apps
email address?

~~~
ElijahLynn
Not really, it is a beta product and they don't ship beta products to apps
customers.

------
marcoms
> <paper-button>

It's nice to see Google finally dogfooding Polymer in their own products

------
98Windows
Already have enough internet access, I'd pay for a way to get away from it.

------
fakename
Has the nexus 6 aged well? early reviews made it sound pretty flawed.

~~~
revx
I have one and I'm quite happy with it. The screen is almost too large to use
but I'd still give it 4.5/5.

The best thing about it is the fact that it comes with no bloatware. My S3 had
2 or 3 bloatware apps that would crash on startup every single time.

------
anand_voyager
This can be used against the net neutrality in the near future.

------
neonbat
This is sweet. My brother and I were thinking about wild ideas like this. We
couldn't be more happy to see someone as awesome as google doing this.

------
NetWarNinja
Well I bought some stock in a company that is supporting this fi. Hopefully
I'll make enough to buy a Nexus 6. ;)

------
NetWarNinja
Well I bought some stock in a company that is supporting this Fi. Hopefully
I'll make enough to buy a Nexus6 ;)

------
Xylemon
I would be interested in a beta invite, but it might just close it three to
five years anyway.

~~~
andybak
Scrolled to the bottom to check if someone had a made this comment. Was not
disappointed.

------
Pxtl
Please, for the love of God and all that is holy:

Bring this to Canada.

------
mohoff
The Circle.

------
pacoBeacon
asdasdasd

------
nrahnemoon1
In their FAQ they haven't addressed the security issues when connecting to
public WiFi hotspots. The user's traffic would be flowing unencrypted, easily
accessible to strangers. I wonder if they'll be providing free VPN service
when connected to public WiFi.

~~~
MBlume
"Know your data is safe

Your data is secured through encryption when we connect you to open Wi-Fi
hotspots. It's like your data has a private tunnel to drive through."

So that's a yes

ETA: Of course this does mean _Google_ has the plaintext, but then, your ISP
always has the plaintext unless you're bringing your own encryption, so this
is really no different.

~~~
athenot
Google is also in a much better position to make use of that data & metadata
than the typical ISP.

~~~
Dylan16807
At the same time they're not going to invite shoddy monitoring/injection
services like many ISPs have done.

------
azinman2
"Project Fi has partnered with Sprint and T-Mobile, two of the leading
carriers in the US, to launch our service."

Lolz. That's some definition of leading I haven't heard before.

~~~
yellowapple
They're both in the top 5 (3rd and 4th, respectively; 5th is US Cellular).
There are dozens of much smaller wireless carriers out there (usually with
regional coverage at best excluding roaming).

