
It's VHS vs. Beta all over again, but worse - Jgrubb
https://www.johnnygrubb.com/its-vhs-vs-beta-all-over-again-but-worse
======
jbaiter
> We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost
> always a service problem and not a pricing problem. If a pirate offers a
> product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of
> your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-
> locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can
> only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is
> more valuable. Gabe Newell

And it's true. Pirating games has never been as unattractive as it has been
today due to Steam's monopoly and ubiquity. TV and Movies on the other hand
are getting worse every year, with Netflix focusing on their originals and
everybody else doing their own streaming services.

~~~
omg_ketchup
I really don't understand why everyone doesn't just offer all the movies all
the time. These availability windows on shit is ridiculous. You wonder how
pirates stay in business, it's because of availability windows and that
region-locked bullshit.

The Wolf of Wall Street came out like 10 years ago, and you're telling me the
_only_ way to watch it is to buy it for $15 on Amazon? Keep dreaming.

~~~
jwr
I think this comes from ossified committees making decisions. The concept of a
world divided into "regions" is still strong in some people's minds, even
though it stopped making any sense within the last two or three decades.

This idea of "regions" is infuriating if you happen to live in a non-first-
class "region", meaning anything that is not the United States. Often you will
be denied purchase, which is ridiculous in the context of discussions about
"piracy".

Spotify has shown the right way to do it: just offer the stuff in a way that
is convenient and let people pay for it. Their growth numbers speak for
themselves.

~~~
autokad
I'm not speaking of dvds specifically, but products in general including
books, medicine, etc.

they still 'need' regions because they generally charge US customers more.
more often then not, US has to pay cost + IP costs + margin, where as people
in say India pay cost + margin.

I think this remains true for dvd/movies. Think about it, I heard the cost of
a movie ticket for a hollywood movie is about 1$ in pakistan.

I'm in favor of getting rid of regions, and outlawing the practice of making
mostly US consumers pay the bill for IP costs illegal, but until that happens
they 'need' regions. how else are they going to charge people in china 2$ and
people in the US 20$.

------
grawprog
For me, this whole thing has had a positive experience on my life. I can't be
bothered dealing with the different streaming services and incompatible
devices, I decided a while back I wasn't going to pirate things any more, so I
just end up not watching things.

I used to watch a lot of things. Even if it was just to have something on in
the background. I haven't really done that for years now and my interest is
pretty much gone now.

Reading people's experiences with these services and devices just sort
reaffirms my decision to just not bother with movies and tv shows any more.

~~~
overgard
I don't necessarily mean this as a criticism of you, because you should spend
time how it best suits you, but I feel like there's this meme that watching
things is a waste of time. To me, I don't buy it. Certainly some things are a
waste of time, but there's also absolutely a lot of excellent things that are
entirely worth watching and will better you. I guess I just get annoyed by
the, somewhat smug, "I don't watch TV crowd". If that's your jam that's fine,
I just don't think it's implicitly a good thing or a bad thing.

~~~
blfr
_there 's also absolutely a lot of excellent things that are entirely worth
watching and will better you_

Name two. I'm very sceptical of the idea of being bettered by watching in
general.

~~~
overgard
I could name far more!

Cosmos? Planet Earth? Or what about the myriad of documentaries you can find?
Or shows about history?

I suppose this also depends on if you think fiction betters you as a person (I
don't think the medium you receive it in matters all that much; so I don't
think you need to read a thick russian novel). If you don't; I guess I just
fundamentally disagree with you, and in a way, I almost feel sad on your
behalf. Almost all of human morals and values, not to mention deep life
lessons, have historically been taught through fiction. If you do, then
obviously there's a lot of EXCELLENT fiction on TV, shows like Breaking Bad,
or Mad Men. Or recent shows like Barry. Those shows rival even large novels in
the amount of time it takes to consume them and what they can say, and they
even have the advantage of being able to take advantage of music and
filmography to set moods and make points that books cannot (books of course
also have their own set of advantage, I'm not trashing them)

~~~
mattnewport
Planet Earth is an example of the medium used well I think - amazing footage
of reality that would be very expensive, time consuming and difficult to
observe first hand, presented with fairly light editorializing.

I personally haven't got the same value from TV fiction. Mad Men is good
example - I watched it because it was widely praised and I got somewhat caught
up in wanting to know what happened next but in retrospect I really don't feel
I got anything much out of it and I would like those hours of my life back. I
feel the same about almost everything I watched while I had a Netflix
subscription.

I've got nothing against pure entertainment. I've found Game of Thrones
entertaining and will likely watch the final season with my fiancé. I continue
to watch the occasional popcorn movie at the cinema. There's very little TV
and only a few movies that feel they rise beyond entertainment to something
like literature however.

If you get value out of TV and movies I've got no problem with that. As
someone who used to watch a lot of both and now feels that was largely a waste
of my time though I just no longer see much value there.

~~~
overgard
I guess it's not for everyone -- to me, Mad Men was a really interesting
commentary on consumer culture and suburbia; along with giving a much more
realistic view of a period of time that has been extremely influential yet
usually reflected in a pretty one dimensional way. If someone asked me to read
an essay about the values on 1950s/1960s america, I really don't think I'd
care, but by giving me interesting characters and presenting their values in
concrete situations, it made learning about that time a lot more interesting
and relevant. I think with fiction, when it works, you learn a lot without
even realizing it. That can make it seem like it's not valuable because
sometimes you don't even realized it planted a seed in your mind. I mean, how
much more effective was a novel like 1984 versus someone talking about the
dangers of government surveillance? I'd argue 1984 had much more impact
(unfortunately, probably not enough), even though it was entirely fiction.

~~~
mattnewport
I'm not saying there is no value in fiction. Does Mad Men belong in the same
conversation as 1984 though? I don't think so.

Does any TV show deserve to stand next to the greats of literature? I'm not
convinced. The closest I can get to a TV show that felt it paid off the time
investment with saying something worthwhile is probably _The Wire_. There's
probably a handful of films that I can say the same for.

For any activity I think it can be useful to look back and ask if it was time
well spent. For me personally I can answer yes for many ways I spend my time.
That includes some fiction. It includes very little TV. Maybe there was
actually some hidden value but I'd rather spend time on things I don't feel
ambiguous about the value of.

------
e1ven
The author doesn't have a comment form on the blog, but since the username
looks like he was the one who submitted here, I wanted to reply and offer that
there may be a solution-

The companies that offer digital movies came together last year in order to
try to solve this problem.

If you go to moviesanywhere.com you can link your accounts, it will make those
movies available across all of the different platforms, including YouTube
which is available everywhere.

It only works with movies, not TV shows or audiobooks or music, so there are
still a lot of places we need to get better. But I think the specific problem
that you are having may be solved.

~~~
andybak
Nice idea. Shame the damn thing is US only.

(also - are people still enforcing silly password complexity rules? I thought
we'd got over that? My x character all-one-character-type passwords are
perfectly secure thanks very much. I did the maths...)

~~~
josteink
> Shame the damn thing is US only.

And no surprise there. I honestly don’t expect anything else at this point.

------
cletus
The author's mistake (IMHO) was not treating his TV as a dumb pixel rectangle
and nothing more. Not getting a Roku-integrated TV has the same arguments for
not getting any other kind of "smart" TV:

\- Getting prompted in the middle of content that "the Terms of Service have
been updated"

\- Getting prompted to accept the ToS

\- Companies deciding to inject ads into your content

\- Interoperability issues

\- Being able to upgrade your (cheap) set-top box without upgrading your
(expensive) TV

\- Smart TV apps are typically worse than the best box apps (although this
doesn't really apply to Roku-equipped TVs I guess)

\- Bugs in the software degrading or disabling your viewing capabilities.
Worst case with a box? Buy a new one ($100).

Seriously. Don't even connect your smart TV to the Internet. Leave the Wifi
unconnected. Don't plug in an Ethernet cable. Leave that to whatever box or
boxes you choose.

~~~
bobbyi_settv
TVs aren't expensive anymore. He says he got a TCL from Costco. I just checked
their website and the 43" model costs $239.

No platform has more and better apps than Roku. A box is a closed platform
just like Roku. Any of the things you're worried about are just as likely with
a separate piece of hardware running smart TV software as with the software
running on the TV itself.

~~~
scarface74
Roku is the most open platform out there. It’s easy enough to write and use
“private channels” using their SDK. Roku doesn’t have to approve a private
channel.

[https://sdkdocs.roku.com/plugins/servlet/mobile#content/view...](https://sdkdocs.roku.com/plugins/servlet/mobile#content/view/1611307)

------
egypturnash
> we've only recently discovered that the headphones that came with the car
> for the DVD player not only work, but will let Michelle and I listen to
> Wait, Wait without the loud protestations of the kids (since they can watch
> a movie while we listen to podcasts)

I don’t have kids and this guy can raise his kids however he pleases as far as
I’m concerned but: it strikes me that letting the kids _always_ consume Kid
Media feels like a bad idea. There’s exposure to adult concerns and concepts
they’re missing out on. There’s probably something they’re missing in learning
about sharing. There’s a variety of input they’re lacking. They’re sitting
there in a little bubble of media created for kids, designed in part to
_exploit_ kids to make money - “buy all our play sets and toys”, as one
Homestar episode out it.

Whenever I was in the car as a kid, it was Mom’s hand on the radio dial.
Mostly the local classical/NPR station. I didn’t always like it but sometimes
I was surprised by what I did.

I dunno, something about media bubbles, something about the vast task of
passing on some measure of your values to your kids, also something about
getting the little bastards to STFU and let you drive on a long trip too.

~~~
Jgrubb
> I don’t have kids

I used to think all kinds of things about how we'd raise our kids before we
had them, but I'm pretty satisfied with the job that we're doing overall -
they're outside catching the first frogs of spring in the creek that goes by
our house at this very moment.

However, sometimes when you're driving for hours to somewhere they get a
little bored and want to watch a movie. And sometimes you get bored of
listening to the dialog from Hotel Transylvania and want to listen to a
podcast and then you discover how handy those headphones actually are.

edit: I mean, this is constructive feedback and I do appreciate it. And you
should absolutely think about your parenting strategy before you have children
as well. It's just that, well, sometimes your opinions on things soften as you
age and gain domain experience is all...

~~~
egypturnash
I am pretty sure I am never going to have kids. :)

That part about letting the kids watch movies while the parents listen to
adult things, without the context of "on a multi-hour drive", just struck me
and I wanted to interrogate it a bit.

------
InTheArena
You need to check out the movies anywhere service. It seems your entire
library across multiple library’s. My understanding is that Disney another’s
force this on the vendors and exchange for 4K media rights.

It really is one of the best things to come out of technology in quite a
while, And it’s remarkable how few people actually know about it.

~~~
andybak
It's currently US-only which means it's no use to me.

~~~
NullPrefix
>movies anywhere

>US-only

Anywhere that matters, it means.

------
azinman2
Apple TV is coming to Roku already:

[https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/rokus-ceo-talks-about-why-
th...](https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/rokus-ceo-talks-about-why-the-apple-tv-
app-is-coming-to-roku-players-tvs/)

~~~
Jgrubb
I googled for this news using every combination I could think of, because the
services event last week or whatever, but couldn't find this. That was also
the paragraph I left out - that I'm sure as soon as I relent and buy a new
Apple TV they'll release an iTunes app for Roku. Anyway, thank you :thumbsup:

------
drngdds
It sucks that we got DRM-free music downloads a decade ago but it just stopped
there. If you want to download a TV show and watch it on any device you want
(which would solve this problem), your one option is piracy.

~~~
geerlingguy
Other option (which is technically illegal I guess but we’ll within my moral
parameters) is to buy the physical box set and rip everything then add
metadata manually.

It’s far from convenient but I feel it’s the best compromise, especially since
you get the full quality in whatever end format you want. With pirated copies,
they often are missing surround tracks, higher quality encodings, CC, and
languages.

~~~
cf498
>With pirated copies, they often are missing surround tracks, higher quality
encodings, CC, and languages.

It has been a while for me, but it wasnt uncommon that it was the other way
around.

------
aerotwelve
I hate to be that guy, but there's a reason I have a closet full of CDs, DVDs,
Blu-ray discs, and physical games for modern consoles.

Digital downloads weren't ready ten years ago, and the author's post is a
great reminder of why they still aren't ready. Buy physical media; opt-out of
this vendor-lock-in-masquerading-as-copyright-enforcement scam.

~~~
Pfhreak
To present an equally valid but totally opposite viewpoint:

Digital downloads were ready 20 years ago, and they are still the best choice
for consoles and pcs.

Spend your money on games (they've never been cheaper) with the understanding
that hey, _maybe_ 40 years from now you won't be able to dig them up. But by
then we'll have 40 years of more games, and the current titles will get
scooped up into museums, vintage shops, and other platforms.

Or they won't, and you'll lose them forever, which is ok. Accept the
impermanence, enjoy the experiences you are having today. Don't let the past
be an anchor, find new things that give you joy and play them then set them
down.

~~~
0815test
> they've never been cheaper

But that's the thing. They're not "cheaper" when you account for the fact that
you're basically renting them from an unreliable platform that may go down at
any time or perhaps deny you "availability" for unknown reasons. And games are
actually one of the best cases since DRM-free platforms are reasonably well-
established. Other sorts of media are a lot worse off from that POV.

~~~
Pfhreak
You are right that the games I buy have an N year shelf life. I estimate N to
be 'longer than I'm likely to care about a game'.

I don't want NES cartridges around my house despite growing up with one. Nor
an SNES or PS2 discs. Every year there's more fantastic media produced than I
have time to enjoy, why lock myself into the past when I can pick up a pile of
cool indie games and the occasional AAA title every year and just enjoy those
experiences?

Who knows, maybe I'll be eating my words someday. I've been buying games for
the better part of 30 years and it hasn't happened yet, but maybe you'll be
right in the end. I don't spend a lot of mental energy worrying about it.

------
madeofpalk
> Can Apple please just relent and let Roku have an iTunes app?

They did. An app will be coming later this year for Roku, Amazon Fire TV and a
bunch of smart TV platforms.

~~~
rch
How about Chromecast compatibility?

~~~
kylec
Apple's working with a bunch of TV makers to add AirPlay 2 support to their
TVs

~~~
rch
I prefer having my own portable device that I can plug into any display.

------
renholder
> _...or licensed, fuck you Hollywood_

Pretty much landed the blame where it _should_ fall but it's not the only one.
Take a look at PDFs with DRMs and what happens when those companies no longer
exist or the like. It's chasing the almighty <insert currency here> that locks
you into licensing to watch, instead of ownership.

Long live the VHS days... (...damn the man, save the Empire.)

------
spectramax
I don’t think the analogy of “VHS vs Beta” works here. It is click-baity.

The author has chosen to purchase various “formats” and then expecting it work
across systems. Just the way you can’t play an Xbox game on PlayStation - the
physical format being the same.

VHS and Beta, Blu-ray and HDDVD, etc were battles about the Universal
standards. It’s a shame your car has a DVD player, if it had a HDMI port, you
damn can play anything you want.

What a useless rant!

~~~
echelon
To a degree, VHS vs Beta was about lock-in, which is exactly the issue we face
with steaming services.

~~~
spectramax
Yes, but the author wants to _burn_ those movies into a really old format -
DVD and then complaining that he/she can’t.

I am not defending the DRM bullshit, but this rant is making an analogy to
_formats_ and the whole discussion is framed incorrectly.

It bothers me when people title their post with a hook to lure you in but then
you’re sorely disappointed that it’s not about what the title said. Click
bait.

Edit: DVD burning is a hack to get around the fact that the car doesn’t have
an HDMI port.

~~~
pushpop
I feel your pedantry is misplaced on this occasion. While you do _technically_
have a point, the blog article was about was about his frustrations with
platform incompatibility. In many ways his arguments is more valid now than
its ever been because the incompatibilities are entirely self-serving with
each platform being conceptually the same as the last. Where as in the Betamax
days it was at least down to differing hardware standards- each offering their
own distinct advantages over the other.

~~~
spectramax
I agree with some of the things about today's digital distribution and the DRM
enchilada, my gripe with articles like this is about the title.

I believe if the author talked about DRM, we'd have a better discussion than
falling back to VHS vs Betamax in a clickbait article.

~~~
Jgrubb
I kid you not, I wrote and posted this whole thing in less than 5 minutes this
morning after having bought the TV yesterday. The word "clickbait" is giving
me too much credit, yet here we are.

------
jimnotgym
I have an old TV that I was given because it had a black band down the screen.
I fixed it by wiggling some cables, and it became my main TV. I could afford
to replace it, but I don't see why I need to. One peculiar thing is that it
has DVI rather than HDMI. I have a YouView digi box which I use to stream. I
can't use my Amazon Fire stick with the TV because this would require a device
to extract the sound from the HDMI and these are silly expensive. I can't
watch BluRay from an Xbox because of DRM, and not being hdmi (There is a hack,
but still). I subscribed to Netflix and Prime, but Prime didn't work properly
on my box. I wanted to watch GOT, and subscribed to another service that had
an app on my box, but the app only showed a selection of that providers
content and not GOT. The same provider won't play on Linux at all (no DRM
app), and the only Windows machine I had wouldn't play the sound loud enough.
So south a myriad of devices I couldn't watch the show I subscribed to see.
Kodi had it, and works on Linux....

So I could send my TV to landfill, buy a new one, get multiple digi boxes and
subscribe to everything...or use Kodi. I can't be bothered, I cancelled my
subs except Netflix. I only keep that for the kids.

------
shmerl
If you don't want such kind of mess, demand DRM-free video. There is no valid
reason for media execs to oppose it.

~~~
e1ven
They did transition from selling DRM albums, to unencrypted music, so this
does seem possible.

~~~
cwyers
The key here is "selling." You won't get DRM-free rentals or a la carte video;
we didn't with audio. Yes, if you buy an album, it's DRM free. Spotify still
has DRM in it.

~~~
lozf
Apart from DRM, if you stream or "buy a download" of an Album, many have
watermarks which in some cases are audible and may detract from the listening
experience.

~~~
scarface74
Who sells music with audible watermarks?

~~~
lozf
AFIAA, all/most releases on labels owned by Universal Music Group, and
possibly some Sony releases.

[https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/08/universal-
to-t...](https://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2007/08/universal-to-track-drm-
free-music-online-via-watermarking/)

[https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-
watermar...](https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark)

[https://community.spotify.com/t5/Content-
Questions/Audible-w...](https://community.spotify.com/t5/Content-
Questions/Audible-watermarks-degrading-sound-on-Spotify-premium/td-p/1300815)

[https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/18472-audible-
water...](https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/18472-audible-
watermarking/)

[https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/is-universal-music-
gr...](https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/is-universal-music-group-using-
audible-watermarks-on-digital-files.334991/page-3)

[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5580197](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5580197)

[https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112052.0.html](https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,112052.0.html)

[https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,117462.0.html](https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,117462.0.html)

[https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/Nh7Ya8vd/...](https://rec.music.classical.recordings.narkive.com/Nh7Ya8vd/umg-
fraud-audible-watermarking-of-all-online-music)

[https://hardforum.com/threads/audible-watermark-umg-
digital-...](https://hardforum.com/threads/audible-watermark-umg-digital-
distributions.1802366/)

etc.

------
lttlrck
I can access all the movies I bought in iTunes inside my Prime account. Works
in the browser and works in the Prime app.

I don’t know if it works the other way around; I never bought a movie in
Prime.

I’m not sure how that connection was made... but the Roku Amazon app ought to
do the same.

Note: per comment elsewhere, this is due to
[https://moviesanywhere.com/](https://moviesanywhere.com/)

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
This is what the original post author is looking for: MoviesAnywhere

[https://moviesanywhere.com/welcome](https://moviesanywhere.com/welcome)

You can add your Amazon Prime, iTunes, and other accounts and access all the
movies you bought. I use this to stream my iTunes movies on Roku

~~~
tootie
Yeah, this is it. And you can thank Disney for it. You can also buy $5 digital
copies of movies you own on DVD.

~~~
ownagefool
Are we actually happy we get to rebuy media we already own?

~~~
tootie
More convenient delivery and higher quality. So, yes. I paid a small price for
more value.

------
aczerepinski
This hits home for me. I bought 100+ albums on iTunes, and accidentally did so
on two different accounts that can never be merged. Every time I buy a new
device (which feels like all the fricking time), remembering passwords and
trying to get access to two different accounts is a PITA. I most certainly
don't feel like I own the music in the way I did with CDs. So now I stream and
haven't bought an album in over a year. That sucks for the artists who make
essentially nothing from the streaming services, but buying doesn't feel like
a legitimate option.

~~~
scarface74
That’s easy. They are all DRM free. You can use Apple Match for $25 and it
will go through all of your music no matter where you got it from and register
it as purchased.

Once you pay one time you can cancel it.

------
mindslight
The doldrums of Gimmick Land is where you end up when you keep falling for all
that advertising trying to sell you gimmicks. Roku iTunes SmartTV Chromecast
Netflix blah blah blah and a thousand other temporary dead ends all grappling
for your _disposable_ income.

Anything being pushed at you is being done so by someone who stands to have an
outsized payday if you accept. The age old truth is that unless you want to be
a _mark_ , you have to do a bit of self-actualization and decide what makes
sense for yourself rather than just choosing between the options being pushed
at you. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't change this dynamic - it
actually just makes you a _bigger mark_.

A TV is something that displays an HDMI input, with the quickest power up time
possible. A movie is a file, preferably mp4 and x264 or x265. A movie player
is something that can pick and play those files. If this just implies a NAS
and torrents, then that is still the state of the art! If you can find more
convenient options that still respect your autonomy, please feel free. But
don't buy into something that promises convenience when its real "value add"
is lock-in.

------
DuckConference
He might get his wish, given that apple currently seem to be trying to get
their content services everywhere

The streaming wars are probably going to make for a lot of strange
partnerships and conflicts going forward though. I wouldn't have expected
Apple to get close with Amazon (supporting Apple Music and Apple TV on amazon
devices), and I never would have expected Netflix to start firing shots at
apple (disabling Airplay 2 support).

------
pontifier
The court is killing innovation. Look up VidAngel. Copyright holders were
compensated via the purchase of physical media, and only the owner of a
particular disk had access, but they have been sued by powerful media
conglomerates.

Disclaimer: I invented the system they used and carefully crafted what I
thought was a system compliant with copyright law, but as always the party
with more money wins in court. I also have a lot of their stock.

------
MayeulC
The ideal answer here is a federated platform for media entity to provide
their content trough.

If you're not sure what I mean with federated, you can check out PeerTube.
However, the same scheme would work with books, audio content, movies, games,
etc.

Each media company could provide an API on their site to redeem content (login
on their system, process payments/keys/coupons one way or another), and
multiple clients could access all of these libraries, while offering their own
added value on top of this.

Well, maybe not federated but distributed instead. The nice thing about
federation is that it provides you with a portal for single-sign-on and
discoverability is less of an issue without search engines.

I'm convinced that something like this could be built quite simply on top of
existing technologies like ActivityPub or the Matrix protocol. However, "app
stores" or media portals are sooo lucrative that everyone wants to keep the
biggest possible pie to themselves without sharing development cost with
others.

One way I could see such a solution appear is if the government(s?) were to
subsidize its development and started hosting public-domain (old, government-
funded) videos on it.

~~~
omg_ketchup
Library of Congress?

~~~
bo1024
That would be interesting but I think a lot of people would be nervous about
mandating that all streaming is controlled by a government entity/site.

However, one related reform I would love to see to copyright is that to get an
extension (say past 10 years), we require mandatory deposit of the copyrighted
work with the library of Congress, which begins seeding the content on
Bittorrent at the conclusion of the copyright term.

------
random878
Maybe the first step would be to stop financially supporting proprietary
software/hardware and buying DRM'd media.

------
js2
I have that same TCL. I bought it because it was the cheapest model on Amazon
at the time. But I quickly got fed up with the built in Roku. It was clunky
and underpowered and some of the apps barely worked. The final straw was when
I learned TCL was spying on my watching habits. So I plugged an Apple TV into
it and unplugged the TCL from my network. I’m much happier now.

Our Honda Odyssey with DVD system also had an aux input in the back. I used
that to play my Apple purchased content, originally via an iPod and then later
via various iOS devices.

It’s a trade off. I’m not thrilled by “buying” my content from Apple but I
think of all the providers I can “purchase” from they are least likely to
leave me high and dry.

It’s a risk not owning the physical media, but if I had to guess, I’ve
probably lost or had more physical media damaged (VHS tapes, DVDs), than lost
access to streaming content I “own”.

~~~
tssva
As a counter annecdote, I can't stand Apple TV. The user interface is a
disaster compared to Roku and the remote made me want to throw it against the
wall everytime I used it.

I bought a TCL Roku TV as a secondary TV. It is fast, the interface makes
sense and the apps are easier to navigate because the remote actually has a
variety of buttons which can be used. The remote also doesn't change the
channel or cause inputs on the TV to switch because someone accidentally
grazed it.

Based upon my experience with the Roku TV I replaced the Apple TV on my main
TV with a Roku Premiere + and sold the Apple TV on eBay for over twice what I
paid for the Roku box. My TV viewing experience is much more enjoyable. As an
added bonus when I have house guests they can actually figure out how to use
the TV without a 30 minute training session.

~~~
jslabovitz
Apple TV is about 1000% better when you ditch the supplied remote and instead
pair a normal querty-style Bluetooth keyboard. Nearly everything in the UI
works with the combo of arrow keys + return key, and you can actually type
text for searching instead of stabbing around with the crappy remote, or
trying to make Siri work.

Probably not so true for tvOS games, but for the usual use case of Netflix,
Amazon Prime, YouTube, settings, etc., a keyboard works great.

~~~
tssva
I don't think this was meant to be but this is a more damning indictment of
the Apple TV than my original post. If your TV viewing solution requires
connecting a bluetooth keyboard to be functional than you are doing something
wrong.

------
jetgirl
Same goes for why you should still buy print copies of books:
[https://jetgirl.art/2019/04/05/misprints-news-53-charging-
by...](https://jetgirl.art/2019/04/05/misprints-news-53-charging-by-the-
pixel/)

------
pier25
You can't buy a book on iBooks and read it on an Android device. I will never
buy/rent content from Apple because of this reason and the author knew this
before buying his movies on iTunes.

------
simonebrunozzi
> "I don't give a shit about games or 4K or an internal drive, I just want to
> watch the fucking movies I bought (or licensed, fuck you Hollywood)."

He's fucking right.

------
gwern
'Commoditize your complement'
[https://www.gwern.net/Complement](https://www.gwern.net/Complement)

------
tyingq
I wonder if Netflix will end up buying Roku, since Netflix's competitors have
TV boxes. I suspect that might make things even more fragmented.

~~~
tbranyen
That makes no sense. Roku was born out of Netflix. Why would they buy them now
after making the decision years ago not to entire the consumer hardware
market?

~~~
tyingq
It appears to be the only notable player not owned by a competitor. I assume
Netflix talks internally about whether that's an issue or not. Perhaps the
market is different now than it was when you say they decided to forgo the
space.

~~~
cwyers
The reason they spun off Roku was precisely because of this reason, though:
they realized that being tied to a platform could hinder Roku's adoption, so
they spun it off so it could be independent. And in my opinion, being
independent and focused entirely on the user experience is why Roku has been
as successful as it has been.

~~~
scarface74
Netflix spun off Roku for exactly the opposite reason. They wanted other
vendors to distribute the Netflix app and didn’t want to be seen as
competitors with hardware vendors.

------
agumonkey
It's interesting in the mathematical sense, a variable is a variable and when
you add constraints, whether the size of a tape, the gap between tracks or
software channels .. you get incompatibilities.

Also, whenever a shift occurs, it helps shed light about the value of what we
add (in this case the DVD player). A tech version of aging.

------
loudtieblahblah
This is what you get for buying digitally locked media in iTunes, Google play
or Amazon.

Don't buy shit you're never going to own. I've had a roku dominated house for
years. If I want to control content, you have two choices:

1.buy thw dvd/bluray

2\. Pirate it

Don't buy stupid stuff that's tied to a platform or storage locker. Easy

~~~
veridies
One added point: while I don’t personally have any moral problem with piracy,
if you DO, then buy a digital copy wherever and then pirate a DRM-free
version. People like the author are willfully locking themselves down.

~~~
errantspark
This is basically my MO, I don't always have internet service and frankly with
storage being as cheap as it is there's really no excuse for me not to have a
seamless experience where I can just go watch/listen/play anything I want to
whenever I want.

I like supporting content creators but DRM (and ads) have no place in my life.

------
clintonb
Folks have mentioned Movies Anywhere. Some physical discs also include
UltraViolet (UV) codes that are redeemable for digital copies. UV is going
away, but the codes will still be available. This meets all of the authors
needs...assuming the disc includes the code.

------
kmfrk
I really hate how the experiment of redeemable codes for physical copies died
out - and wasn't even an option in most countries.

Now we have to choose between availability or convenience (online video)
versus annoying physical discs with higher quality.

------
mnm1
The author should learn how to torrent and stop complaining. After all, he
already purchased a license for the content so we're simply talking about
getting a backup copy that can work on all his hardware which is perfectly
legal.

------
test6554
It would be nice if all the major hollywood studios shared a ledger (not
necessarily blockchain) showing who legally purchased what media. And then
required all of the downstream digital platforms (Amazon, Apple, Microsoft,
Google) to grant you access to any movies you already purchased. Additionally,
it would be great if you were able to sell your access of one movie to another
party for cash or swap content.

Movie studios would like it because they could sell directly to consumers and
cut out the middle man. Digital platforms wouldn't like it, but would
otherwise lose access to the content they wish to sell. Consumers would like
it because their library of content would be permanent and would tear down the
garden walls. They could also resell or swap their purchases, possibly for a
small fee.

~~~
c256
Most content industries (definitely including movies, tv, books, music, and
games) vary between “dislike” and “loathing” of secondary markets, because it
gets them nothing and costs them a “potential sale”, even more than piracy,
because the person paying for a “used” copy has demonstrated that they’re
willing to part with money for the product.

Where the right to resale still exists, the way to bet is that it exists
because of major lawsuits that the industry has lost (or “lost”). Don’t worry
about the shareholders, though - they’re still chipping away!

(Damn, I’m gloomy lately. Sorry.)

------
jccalhoun
When you buy drm'ed digital files you get what you pay for: nothing.

I never "buy" drm'ed material if I can't break the drm.

------
mmaunder
If they have their way, 'posession' of a film in DVD or other portable format
will become a crime.

------
ezoe
So he brought DRM-protected videos and complains that it has DRM in it. He
totally deserve it.

------
chewzerita
That's the cost of drm...

