

Dark lands: the grim truth behind the 'Scandinavian miracle' - dsirijus
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/27/scandinavian-miracle-brutal-truth-denmark-norway-sweden

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rayiner
All this does is show that human societies are big, complicated, and flawed,
even the successful ones. And you can always cherry-pick statistics to point
that out. I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Scandinavian
countries are perfect, but it's quite true that they also have many statistics
going in their favor and programs other countries can learn from.

Also, some of the statistics are questionable. Quoting ecological footprint
and suicide rates without adjusting for climate? Not sound, but what do you
expect from an article that just presents a random grab-bag of out of context
statistics?

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CmonDev
"Ask the Danes, and they will tell you that the Norwegians are the most
insular and xenophobic of all the Scandinavians, and it is true that since
they came into a bit of money in the 1970s the Norwegians have become
increasingly Scrooge-like, hoarding their gold, fearful of outsiders."

I wish UK had a story of successful multiculturalism to tell.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
politics-12371994)

~~~
mcantelon
True. And Norway's a sovereign country, free to introduce immigrants at a rate
that works for them. The New York Times just featured an article about how
Norway's immigration is creating ethnic ghettos.

[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/world/europe/anti-
immigran...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/world/europe/anti-immigrant-
party-norway.html)

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etiam
Look to me like dear Michael has been forming his view largely by asking
assorted grumpy people for their personal opinions about people in their out-
groups. I want my four minutes back.

~~~
cgh
Yes, I think it's a bit tongue in cheek. There are few countries that compare
to Scandinavia and Finland in terms of quality of life - Canada, New Zealand,
Australia, Austria, Switzerland...nothing else really springs to mind.

~~~
RubenDennis
Luxembourg, Liechtenstein..

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jahaja
Woha, does this really qualify as journalism? It seems more like the author
has been been holding a grudge and urgently needed to spew out all the things
he doesn't like about Scandinavia. This coupled with a few backing quotes from
natives. The short "description" of Iceland really tells the tale.

This kind of slanted view would present any country in a bad light.

~~~
dgabriel
This is a cutesy little throw away column, not a precise analysis of the pros
and cons of living in Scandinavia. It's silly.

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sgt
Definitely very biased and highly inaccurate in several places. I particularly
reacted to these negative statements regarding Norway:

"..in September the rightwing, anti-Islamist Progress party – of which Breivik
had been an active member for many years – won 16.3% of the vote in the
general election, enough to elevate it into coalition government for the first
time in its history."

This is absolute fear-mongering and demonizing of a respected political party
(disclaimer: I voted for them about 10 years ago).

It's correct that Fremskrittspartiet has been calling on stricter immigration
laws, and it's correct that it's negative towards islamic fundamentalism and
extremism (as are most of the other parties).

It's also correct that they've had party members with slightly more extreme
opinions than what is considered mainstream. Internal problems can be
attributed to almost any political party.

Although the article is right about many other aspects of Scandinavia, I felt
that this had to be pointed out.

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doktrin
This article is deeply flawed.

> _Why, asks one expert, does everybody think the Nordic region is a utopia?_

Is this a satire? Expert of _what_ exactly? According to his profile at the
Guardian :

" _Michael Booth is a freelance journalist and author of several books
including Sushi and Beyond: One Family 's Remarkable Journey Through the
Greatest Food Nation on Earth._"

Oh, well in _that_ case...

On a less cheeky note, it's obvious that any claims of 'Utopia' (anywhere) are
misguided - it's just hero worship in another form. That said - it's perfectly
rational to examine positive aspects of another society without either
deifying or demonizing it.

This article does no one any favors with its weird mixture of opinion and
hyperbole.

~~~
asabjorn
There are also other points that are completely wrong:

> in September the rightwing, anti-Islamist Progress party – of which Breivik
> had been an active member for many years – won 16.3% of the vote in the
> general election, enough to elevate it into coalition government for the
> first time in its history.

Although I feel weird as a norwegian and voter of a different party to come to
the defense of FRP, the party was founded in 1973 on reducing taxes and
reducing the states influence on the economy. And this still seem to be their
primary goal and was all they talked about during elections when I still lived
in Norway.

I have seen the statement repeated by others more familiar with Swedish and
Danish politics that FRP is a racist party, but at least historically that has
not been their call-to-action and I have not seen anyone make a convincing
argument that this has changed.

~~~
doktrin
> _I have seen the statement repeated by others more familiar with Swedish and
> Danish politics that FRP is a racist party_

To put it in context of American politics, FRP is no more "racist" than the
Republican party - which also regularly runs on an anti-immigration platform.

There are certainly protectionist, and xenophobic, elements in both - but it's
dismissive, and simplistic, to claim that either is "racist". The issues are
more complex than that.

~~~
qw
I agree. As a Norwegian who have never considered voting for them, I have to
say they are misunderstood. I think it all started when the Swedes thought
they were similar to the Swedish "SD" party. That caused a lot of attention in
the Norwegian and Swedish press that unfortunately were picked up by other
countries as well.

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MatthiasP
If Scandinavia is the "Dark Land" then the British model of society can only
be called the "Black Hole".

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squigs25
Meanwhile, Norway has 1MM per capita in assets. Their net debt as a percent of
GDP is -165% while the US is +88%

~~~
aetherson
The lesson here is... The US should discover a really, really, _really_ large
amount of oil?

I mean, I don't take Booth's takedown of the Nordic countries very seriously,
but the reason that Norway is in such great shape financially is that they
have an enormous amount of oil that they sell. It's not exactly a reproducible
strategy for nation-building.

~~~
ks
To put things in context. The oil industry is producing 20% of the total GDP
of Norway and 50% of all exports. It's very important and it will be painful
when it ends, but Norway will not be much worse than other European countries
when the oil runs out.

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hawkharris
Add to this the fact that Greenland is the suicide capital of the world (most
suicides per capita).

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nulldata
He has some good points, but it mostly just sounds like a pointless rant. And
nitpicking every flaw with these nations just because he has gotten tired of
the positivity surrounding their "success" comes off as just childish.

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xacaxulu
It was a fun read, even without being well supported. This is something that
would have been more enjoyable if it were delivered in the back room of a
quiet pub by a slightly more buzzed version of the author.

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talmir
As an Icelander I cant say I agree with his description of us. Its like saying
Brittain sucks because of Margeret Thatcher, without considering she was not
the sole inhabitant of that country.

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borlum
meh, while there are certain truths in what he says, it only paints a very
small picture of Scandinavia. I mean which nation doesn't its faults?
Uninteresting.

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varg
Satire? ... not very witty.

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platz
What a nice take-down.

~~~
ceejayoz
Seemed like a random assortment of cherry-picked stats and anecdotes.

~~~
dageshi
Is that a problem?

