
Lovin' their elevator: why Germans are loopy about paternosters - dthal
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/14/elevator-germans-loopy-revolving-lifts-paternosters
======
furyg3
It seems like there should be a way to build these in a safe way. For example,
angling the ceiling of the compartment as well as where the ceiling of the
building meets the compartment should offer quite a lot more safety:

[http://i.imgur.com/CJbf1oq.png](http://i.imgur.com/CJbf1oq.png)

You could also imagine 'sprung' walls between the compartments that prevent
limbs/feet from getting squashed.

As for accessibility for disabled persons, I see no reason why a paternoster
can't be switched to 'elevator mode'. You can hit a button on the wall that
will stop the system when the next compartment reaches your floor, get inside
with your wheelchair/baby carriage/grandpa, and push a button inside the
compartment before the floor you want to get off at to do the same.

~~~
matt4077
Indeed! Also, they should probably find a solution for that problem where
little children get smashed like a not-so-lucky group of rebels in a trash
compactor when the paternoster goes over the top.

~~~
Someone
That problem has been solved (look at the animation on
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster)).
I guess it had been solved before the first paternoster got installed. If so,
it never was a real problem.

~~~
furyg3
I'm slightly disappointed it doesn't flip over :)

That'll teach to to disobey the signs!

~~~
Someone
You could have deduced that by observing that you never find footprints on the
ceilings of the cars, or that the left and right walls of cars do not get
switched.

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lorenzhs
There really aren't many of them here in Germany. Funnily, the only one I ever
used was in the UK, in Attenborough Tower at the University of Leicester.
Never seen one in Germany, but here's a (probably incomplete) list of known
paternosters worldwide: [http://www.flemming-
hamburg.de/patlist.htm](http://www.flemming-hamburg.de/patlist.htm)

~~~
KineticLensman
I used to ride one at the University of Leeds in the 1980s. It served a five
floor lecture theater known for its brutalist 1960s architecture [1].

I rode it over the top on several occasions - the car went up one side, slid
horizontally and then came down again. It was a good way to queue jump but
allegedly could cause the whole system to jam, in which case the people caught
in the middle would be carpeted. It's now been decommissioned, apparently.

[1]
[http://www.teachingspace.leeds.ac.uk/building_details.asp?ID...](http://www.teachingspace.leeds.ac.uk/building_details.asp?ID=18)

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rffn
The article misses important points about the reason for the outcry on the
proposed law. Many people here are fed up with the overregulating nanny state
with more and more unnecessary rules imposed by inept control freaks like
Andrea Nahles. She also seems to have difficulties with judging the impact of
her ideas. There are now way too many similar the her in today's politics
(throughout most of the political parties in Germany).

~~~
3pt14159
How do people in wheel chairs and crutches reach different floors? If there is
a handicapped or moving elevator as well, and if there is an auto-stop
mechanism if someone's foot is stuck between lift and ceiling, then I see no
reason why these shouldn't be in every office building or condo. They are
clearly way more time efficient.

~~~
Asbostos
I don't think they're clearly more efficient. For a tall enough building, or
low enough traffic, what you save in waiting time, you'd lose in the slower
travelling speed.

~~~
3pt14159
Well, if I had access to Windows I could quickly tell you the bounds of where
it is more efficient by using this:
[http://www.ezstrobe.com/](http://www.ezstrobe.com/) and assuming different
types of arrivals (stochastic, etc). But I don't have Windows and I just
learned one of my favorite professors died (it's listed on the website) so now
I'm sad.

Maybe later I'll port to linux.

------
artumi-richard
I used one in the Arts Tower of Sheffield University where I studied. It was
fun, but felt slow. There were also 2 (3?) conventional elevators that seemed
like the best bet when doing more than 5 floors.

It's still functional.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_Tower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_Tower)

~~~
Robadob
Yeah, I've been on that one to and was rather unimpressed. One show did a
segment about it a year or so ago.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAjYAfb_HPk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAjYAfb_HPk)

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userbinator
Search for 'klamrisk' to find a rather... infamous warning sign showing what
not to do in one of these. That sign also turned into somewhat of a minor meme
amongst the demoscene community several years ago (it even turned into a game:
[http://www.linusakesson.net/games/klamrisk/index.php](http://www.linusakesson.net/games/klamrisk/index.php)
).

------
toothbrush
I've seen it mentioned here and there that one isn't supposed to ride it all
the way around (that is, on the horizontal sections), but the reason escapes
me. If you stay inside the cabin, what exactly can go wrong? (serious
question) Getting stuck doesn't seem logical, why would the probability of the
paternoster stopping increase when there is a (modest) load on the horizontal
sections?

~~~
TeMPOraL
The reason is that the cabins are being cleaned on the bottom and top of the
loop - there's a mesh of blades entering the cabin making sure there's nothing
left on, or inside the walls and then the remnants of whatever it was that was
not supposed to be there are dropped through an open hole in the floor to the
recycling bin (waste from paternosters is obviously recycled, this is Germany
we're talking about).

;).

More seriously though, I guess it's not that you can't, only that you
shouldn't, because there's _always_ a shorter route to your destination that
doesn't involve looping.

------
KuchenKerze
Sadly they are slowly disappearing. Mainly because of safety reasons, they are
considered dangerous.

~~~
Yuioup
Just out of curiosity. I have never ridden one of those but what can actually
go wrong? From what I can see:

* You can jump in too late, thus falling an unexpected height and break your ankles.

* You take too long getting in thus getting a garment/arm/leg stuck between the ceiling of the paternoster and the floor.

Am I correct? Or am I missing something?

~~~
KuchenKerze
I can't think of much more that could happen. My opinion is: if you are a
human equipped with a brain (which functions normally) there is not much risk
using an paternoster.

~~~
thomasz
I can assure you that this is a very dangerous assumption. In theory, almost
all workplace safety regulations could be replaced by a "Just put up a 'don't
be an idiot'" sign. But then we would have __a lot __of unnecessary deaths and
horrible accidents.

The are many reasons for this, but it mostly comes down to people being
distracted and simple statistics - given enough time, even a small risk will
lead to accidents.

~~~
KuchenKerze
I agree partially. But labelling a coffee cup with a notice that it is hot
should not be necessary.

~~~
Asbostos
In the same way that labeling a guillotine with a notice that it could cut
your fingers off should not be necessary? In both cases they seem safe because
the people using them use them every day and are familiar with the risks.
Unfortunately, what happens is every now and then an experienced factory
worker cuts his fingers off in the same guillotine he's been operating for
decades, or an old lady needs skin grafts on her legs after spilling a cup of
hot coffee just like she's been drinking for decades.

~~~
slgeorge
I'm not following you. Your examples are of the inherent risk in the activity
or device - a person drinks coffee regularly, and then burns herself after
drinking safely for years - this is just a risk of a hot drink, it could
happen at any time. Having a sign on the item doesn't impact the risk for a
regular user: the regular user knows the risks, and will ignore signs they see
all the time.

Signs might protect a new user - 'this is a guillotine if you hit the button
it will cut your hand off'. Is that the point your making?

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jlg23
The real WTF here is "Nahles claimed she had failed to read the small print in
the new law restricting the use of paternosters, saying had she done so she
would not have signed off on it."

A minister with a huge office, lots of aids and access to a scientific and
legal research group considers that an adequate statement? Until now I thought
the main qualification for German politicians would be to never have held a
normal job in real life and involvement in a party's youth organization since
the age of 14 at least - I guess I have to add "substandard reading
comprehension" to that list.

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MaximillianII
I was lucky to work in a building equipped with a Paternoster in Munich,
Germany. We had a fancy startup office, but the Paternoster was the feature I
liked most!

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TurboHaskal
The article is full of this German reliability, efficient character mumbo
jumbo, yet every administrative process takes forever here.

Maybe they should build more of those.

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tiatia
[https://helixator.wordpress.com/](https://helixator.wordpress.com/)

