
Effects from Filming the Adventures of Baron Munchausen (2010) - curtis
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001631/board/nest/155432909?d=155738288#155738288
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ctdonath
The story is one more anecdote for a point adults need be keenly aware of:
adults have (at least, we expect) a positive framework to establish negative
experiences upon, while children faced with those negative experiences _don
't_ have such a positive framework - instead, the negative experiences
_become_ the framework, leading to long-term dysfunction. A key anecdote for
this is the _Shrek_ movies, overflowing with humorous satire - unaware that a
good chunk of the audience doesn't know what's being satirized, and hence
takes the stories as the foundation instead of the facade.

TL;DR - a child star of a Terry Gilliam film writes him, decades later, to
describe the sheer terror she felt acting out the film and how that terror
caused her social/emotional problems growing up; Gilliam responds in
surprise/confusion/appreciation, lauding how solid an actor she was at age 9,
and unaware of the effect it had on her.

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btown
It seems like you're referencing some sort of psychology study or finding
about children's reactions to _Shrek_ \- I was unaware that there was any
child-psychology-based controversy about its use of satire whatsoever!
Searches for "Shrek controversy" don't seem to mention anything nearly like
this - do you have any references to the phenomenon you mention?

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ctdonath
Yes: I'm a parent.

~~~
oldmanjay
that's interesting how you used the word yes but actually ended up not having
the answer. certainly you didn't mean that as parent you feel that your
emotion is a reference?

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Animats
Diana Serra Cary, who was a famous child star of the silent era, is still
around, living in Merced, CA. She's written several books about her
experiences. She wasn't that bothered by working in Hollywood; it was her
controlling father she remembers as the problem. She writes: "But, as for my
memories of those times, my theory is that most children live such a sedentary
life that every day is the same. A lot of my memories, in many cases, concern
life and death situations. You're being asked to do things that are really a
stretch for a three-year old or a two-year old. Also, I did most of my own
stunts. I was my own stand-in. Everything was new. I took in everything, and I
really have a terrific memory of most of those early days because they were so
intense, you know." She grew up in a cowboy family, was on a horse as soon as
she could walk, and was around people who had risky jobs. So she saw the risk
as normal.

It was an unusual life. She writes in one of her books of seeing some children
playing and asking "why aren't they working"?

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waterlesscloud
Sarah Polley has grown up to be a great actress and a filmmaker in her own
right. Her documentary THE STORIES WE TELL is very insightful and subtle where
it could have been exploitative and self-indulgent. In a way, it's
thematically related to this exchange- Family, the way people remember things,
the way our stories of our lives may not match reality and how that may not
matter in terms of our own experience.

It's interesting she doesn't blame Gilliam for her experience, at least not
now. I tend to agree to some extent, though I also think he has some
responsibility. She's right to place some blame at her parents' feet. In the
end, protecting her is 100% their job.

Gilliam has some responsibility, it is after all his set. But the film
industry is aware that directors can't always be trusted to balance their
conflicting goals the way they should, and the 1st Assistant Director on a set
is explicitly in charge of set safety. They're there to rein in a director who
may be going too far. Tough job, but it's only one of the ways a 1st AD has to
steer directors sometimes. And ultimately, the producers are responsible for
everything, period. There's a reason the producers are the ones who accept
Best Picture Oscars, and their ultimate responsibility for a film and
everything that happens in the course of it is why.

In the recent MIDNIGHT RIDER case, where a film crew member was killed by a
train while shooting a stupidly dangerous scene while trespassing, the
director, 1st AD, and the producer were all charged with manslaughter. The
director and 1st AD have pled guilty, the producer had charges dropped.
Looking into it now, I see the producer was the director's wife, and the court
may have dropped her charges in consideration of their children, as long as
the director agreed to plead guilty.

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subliminalbrad
The Bluray has a lengthy featurette regarding the problems they had filming
Munchausen. It was a complete disaster behind the scenes for multiple reasons
that weren't really Gilliam's fault -- other than the fact that he was
pursuaded to film in Italy in the first place.

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beloch
When you watch The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, there are some pretty
intense practical effects scenes that Sarah Polley had to go through. In
particular, I'd be leery of the combination of water, large animals, and
explosives myself! In fact, I'd probably want to be there as they were setting
things up, asking countless questions until I was satisfied that all danger
was illusory. Even as an adult, this would likely have been hard to do in a
chaotic production where everything was constantly in danger of spinning out
of control.

Gilliam obviously did not have full knowledge of how Polley was feeling at the
time, but her experiences offer a lesson for anyone who has to put a child in
circumstances that are challenging. It's crucial to spend extra time
explaining and educating them in order to defuse fear that they might not
admit to. Children have a lot of things they still need to learn, and one of
those is when to speak up for themselves when they're not comfortable. Polley
was wise to have this discussion with Gilliam and, perhaps, wise also to make
it public.

Directors often have too much on their plate to worry about the welfare of
their actors and parents are probably afraid of interfering in a way that
might harm their child's chances to work in later productions. It's sad, but
Polley's parents were her agents in a way, and had an incentive to prevent her
from objecting when she felt she was put in danger. Perhaps a third party
advocate for child actor safety should be on set, but admitting this would be
a bitter pill indeed for the parents!

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rasz_pl
>the adults who should have been there to protect me were my parents

and at her own account its them that failed her. Parents pushing kids to do
adult things, 7 yr old bikini contests, reality tv and other stupid shit.

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markbnj
Came in expecting a post about special effects in Baron Munchausen, but what I
found was even more interesting. Thanks, OP.

