
Amazon pulled an Apple on the smart home - imartin2k
https://staceyoniot.com/amazon-just-pulled-an-apple-on-the-smart-home/
======
Tloewald
If there’s one thing Apple did, with Steve Jobs, other than build fantastic
user experience out of mature but unapproachable technologies, it was
communicating the fact that it had done so. Not only has Amazon failed to do
this, the writer has as well.

I think it’s pretty cool that, in theory, I could say “Alexa, turn on the oven
to 450” and it would (a) turn the correct device to the correct setting and
(b) remind me when it was ready (or if it’s being super duper smart, tell me
that it was 2 mins or so away from being ready) so that I could stagger over
to the kitchen, pull a pizza out of the fridge or freezer, unwrap it, and
stick it in the oven. All I need to do is have a bunch of speakers bugging my
home, a new oven, ideally probably not two new ovens or not a new oven and a
new toaster oven because god knows what will happen, and all this stuff
networked.

Or I can walk over to the oven, turn it to 450, and say “Hey Siri, set timer
for ten minutes” and wander off. When my wrist buzzes, I go stick a pizza in
the oven and I say, “Hey Siri, set timer for thirteen minutes” and go do
stuff.

I don’t need a new oven. I don’t need to worry that I’ll pick the wrong oven.
I’m not inviting Amazon to parse all my conversations. I don’t need to learn a
new magic phrase.

Oh and imagine the hilarity when you try to sell or rent your house and the
internet gets turned off. We had a smart sprinkler system which, when we sold
the house, we essentially had to rip out because it was easier to install a
conventional replacement than figure out how to talk to it without an active
WiFi.

~~~
WalterBright
I'd never allow the internet to turn on my oven.

~~~
slantyyz
I'm with you on that, but what I would want is the ability to know is the
_status_ of my oven.

My wife and I are always (excessively) concerned with whether we left our gas
stove on/off, the doors are locked and that the garage door is closed.

For that stuff, I'd be willing to pay for the ability to check on that stuff
that worries me. Having said that though, knowing that you left your stove on
and not having the ability to turn it off would probably be kind of pointless.

~~~
WalterBright
Suffering from that issue myself, one thing that helps is a checklist, and go
through that when you leave.

Another way is to unplug them, because then one remembers doing that.

Ovens can also suffer failures where the gas is turned on, but it fails to
ignite. This is no issue when you're there and notice the gas smell and the
burners not going on. If you're not there, the house fills with gas and
explodes.

~~~
slantyyz
We do the checklist thing, and I find it helps to say stuff out loud while
you're going through it.

Fortunately, our range is a "dual fuel" stove, which means the oven is
electric but the stove burners are gas. Having said that, stuff being left on
is still a concern irrespective of whether a burner is electric or gas.

~~~
joshvm
Verbal checklists are extremely effective. It's why flying is incredibly safe,
and they're also used in some operating theatres (see the Checklist Manifest).

Works even better with two people as you're forced to cross-check every item.

It's important to keep it a sane length and at a suitably high level,
otherwise users have a tendency to skip items that are "obvious".

------
patryn20
While I'm aware anecdote is not the same as data, I really feel that the smart
home experience vis-a-vis Alexa is getting worse. It no longer recognizes
simple voice commands. Third party integrations constantly need to be reset
("I'm sorry, I can't find that." or "If you want to use SiriusXM, please open
Alexa on your phone."). Randomly swaps responses between devices across the
house whereas it would always respond with the nearest device in the past.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

It's the same sort of things that keeps happening with maps programs,
smartphones, and basically any modern tech with software updates. No one can
leave well enough alone. They have to put their fingerprints on it in order to
advance their careers, so everyone mucks around and breaks things and calls it
an improvement.

Frankly I'm just tired of expensive devices getting worse with every single
software update.

~~~
billforsternz
Pointless updates really are a scourge of modern tech. I wish there was some
googleable concept to focus and unite user rage. I don't think the culprits
even recognize there's a problem.

~~~
wildrhythms
I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Do you think these kinds of
'updates' belong in the category of feature creep, or do they deserve some new
category?

~~~
billforsternz
I was more thinking about updates that don't actually advertise their purpose
- no new features at all (unless you do some forensic analysis I suppose). So
that can't be feature creep on the surface. But no doubt it would be possible
to define a whole taxonomy within the class of 'updates considered harmful'
that includes feature creep updates.

I must admit the ones that really get to me are Windows updates that for some
reason best known to the devil himself seem to be postponed until I actually
need to use the computer. Or those ones where you've just done a fresh install
(say) only for the system to proudly announce that it's downloading updates,
then installing updates, then working on updates, then (finally) announcing it
needs to reboot (okay) and then just when you think maybe it's time you can
use the system - no - checking for updates - and finding new ones! Just kill
me please.

~~~
mrsteveman1
> I must admit the ones that really get to me are Windows updates that for
> some reason best known to the devil himself seem to be postponed until I
> actually need to use the computer.

This is the one thing that's becoming _really_ infuriating lately, not only
Windows but even macOS.

It's not just updates either (which macOS does pretty well), but a more
general problem that the OS routinely interferes with what I need the machine
to do and wastes the CPU/RAM/SSD/Network resources I need while I'm using it.

For example, updating caches/indexes requiring it to read/write the system
drive heavily, running various kinds of maintenance and pinning the CPU to
100% for several minutes, or taking up all available bandwidth to do things
that frequently did not need to be done _at all_.

Apple's iCloud Photo Library did the last one all the time until I disabled
it. If you delete a large file and free up local drive space, it will almost
immediately start using all available internet bandwidth to download and cache
photos and videos from iCloud to fill up that space again.

Just yesterday, I discovered that Microsoft has either intentionally pushed
everyone to use the "balanced" power plan or just broke the ability to select
"high performance" in control panel. I had to open the group policy editor
just to put it back it on high performance, because it was not possible to do
it anywhere else.

I only noticed that little change because I was capturing data from a
satellite passing overhead, which is not something that you can just
arbitrarily delay or slow down, and _right then_ Windows decided to reduce the
maximum CPU speed to 0.49Ghz, completely ruining the data. That's not even a
"real time" task, it doesn't specifically require low latency just high
performance. Ordinarily that machine can handle it just fine, as long as the
OS isn't actively crippling the hardware or trying to do other pointless,
resource intensive tasks at the same time.

------
blfr
I don't like the idea of home automation and these complex, all-in-one systems
in general. They are just bound to fail. And not even in some spectacular
fashion, they will just be a grind to use with this or that piece not working
correctly, requiring fiddling, etc.

Like my rather pricey, fully automatic Nivona coffee machine which has a
really hard time beating a manual coffee grinder and a French press since they
don't require descaling, special cleaning tablets, or adjusting the tray
sensor to notice that the tray is back in.

Or like these home audio solutions where the sound is following you around the
house in whatever configuration you want but have a hard time beating a simple
bluetooth adapter connected to an old hifi.

Both at 1/50th of the price.

What works and what I would like however are some simple technological
improvements to existing solutions. For example, being able to check if I
closed _and locked_ the door behind me. More like that bluetooth adapter than
a complex integrated solution.

Also, it really doesn't need to relay my conversations to the cloud. What a
terrible trade-off for a silly gimmick.

~~~
debaserab2
I miss the days when my TV didn't have software updates and was simply a dumb
panel whose only job is to display a picture for whatever input I give it.

~~~
blfr
Fortunately, you still can buy dumb screens and add smart features with addons
like Chromecast or just a computer with HDMI output. This works reasonably
well, much like the bluetooth adapter.

~~~
scarface74
I think Chromecast is one of the worse ideas for a shared communal TV. How do
other people control the TV? Am I expected to leave my phone/tablet in the
living room? A Roku stick/Apple TV/Nvidia Shield have apps and you can just
use a traditional remote. With the AppleTV/Nvidis Shield you can Airplay/Cast
when necessary.

~~~
blfr
I just disconnect when I'm done watching and the next person can connect using
their device. With Netflix you need to at least switch profiles so it's about
as convenient but I rarely watch anything on TV and never actual TV so it may
be more annoying for heavier users.

------
Tepix
Amazon is a company that wants to know everything about me, just like Google.
They want to sell me all kinds of stuff. Not a company I'd trust with private
data about my home.

~~~
lykr0n
That's my concern as well. I love the idea of home automation, but I don't
want someone else to have that data.

It sucks, but we're the minority here.

~~~
JoshMnem
> It sucks, but we're the minority here.

I'm not interested in any home automation. The ability to turn on my lights
with a wristwatch doesn't have reasonable benefits compared to the risks. It's
hard for me to believe that people actually put these Internet-connected,
voice-activated devices in their homes. The smartphones are bad enough. That
kind of automation doesn't encourage living deliberately, and the privacy and
behavior manipulation (tracking, ads, etc.) issues around it are horrendous.
(DIY can avoid most of those problems though.)

~~~
reaperducer
_It 's hard for me to believe that people actually put these Internet-
connected, voice-activated devices in their homes._

Some of the new apartment buildings in Chicago come with Alexa built in to a
wall panel. If you live there, you cannot escape it.

------
alkonaut
I have high hopes for smart home and IoT appliances which is still mostly
terrible.

But Amazon seems to still believe that voice interactions are not just a
feature of future smart homes, but essential. I have never seen the need to
voice control anything in my home, and I likely never will. I don’t want AI I
want simple, cheap reliable and interconnectable automation hardware.

The first home automation tech I want is normal lightswitches everywhere and a
hotel style master switch at the front door. The home automation/smart home
tech I can easily get is a speaker that can order things?

I think IKEA seem to be a lot closer to revolutionizing smart homes than
Amazon.

~~~
slantyyz
> I have never seen the need...

Nobody "needs" any of this stuff. But once you factor in laziness and
convenience, "normal" people are willing to make tradeoffs.

I know I don't need Alexa, but when you've got grocery bags in both hands and
it's dark, being able to turn on the lights by voice is handy even though it's
far from "needed". And when it works well enough most of the time, it's easy
to become dependent on it. For some things, voice is way more convenient than
pulling out your phone and fumbling with an app (like changing a setting on a
Nest).

A slightly related but different example: I just tried installing a pihole in
my network, and it ended up being a total headache.

My wife likes using deal sites for shopping, and they like to redirect to a
half dozen tracking sites before landing you on the e-store you want. And of
course, the pihole got in the way of her shopping. The pihole ended up being
way more trouble than it was worth and got decommissioned after only a couple
of days, as white listing is a time consuming cat and mouse game I didn't want
to play.

My wife cares more about her $5 shopping rebate than she does her information
being passed around to marketing companies, because the tradeoff is worth it.
I don't think my wife is much different from most _normal_ consumers in that
regard.

~~~
QasimK
> I know I don't need Alexa, but when you've got grocery bags in both hands
> and it's dark, being able to turn on the lights by voice is handy even
> though it's far from "needed".

A simple motion/heat detecting light does what you need here, and is probably
more reliable...

~~~
slantyyz
I have Alexa commands that will light up the group of lights I need to get
from my front door to the kitchen. Also, I have dogs that would probably find
a way to turn the lights on when I don't want them to.

------
GuB-42
They didn't address the biggest "pain point" of "smart homes" aka home
automation or domotics.

The biggest issue is the lack of a universal standard. A home is not a
smartphone you can replace every 2 years. Things are measured in decades, and
changes may require expensive and time consuming work in addition to the cost
of the product itself.

I looked into home automation when I had to work on an old house. I looked
into KNX, which seemed to be a good standard: adopted by several
manufacturers, robust, etc... The biggest problem, beside the price, is that I
can't buy the hardware I want (ex: A/C unit) and expect it to connect to my
network. Most of them don't have any smart feature, and those that do are
restricted to a single system that even if it lasts may not be what will be
popular 5 years from now.

In home building, almost everything is standardized. Power plugs, dimensions
of appliances, pipe fittings, etc... Smart home won't take off unless it is
the case too. Any yet, maybe because it looks like the next big thing,
companies try to lock down the market instead of first working together. The
worst part is that the "smart home" is not a new thing at all. We had most of
the technology decades ago, it never took of for that reason, and it seems
like all we can do is repeat the same mistake.

Cloud and AI are new but it doesn't change the deal at all. If you can't get
appliances to talk the same language, it isn't going to work. As for the
incentive for the companies involved, getting your money or getting your data
is essentially the same thing.

~~~
kazen44
> I looked into home automation when I had to work on an old house. I looked
> into KNX, which seemed to be a good standard: adopted by several
> manufacturers, robust, etc... The biggest problem, beside the price, is that
> I can't buy the hardware I want (ex: A/C unit) and expect it to connect to
> my network.

You could integrate KNX into IP, but that would require another server which
is either dreadfully expensive, or just way to complex to maintain for an
average house.

Also, i don't know how it is in the US, but many buildings around my area lack
any proper cabling infrastructure because they are ancient. Things like having
cable gutters for ethernet and coaxial connections.

Most have a single coaxial cable coming in from the floor directly into the
living room. (because that is where the TV/radio used to be).

These buildings are unlikely to be broken down because of their high value,
but renovating them would cost a fortune. Currently no proper standard for
wireless home automation exists.

------
shimon
There's a really interesting strategic move here that I hadn't previously
realized. Amazon is bundling some perpetual cloud service cost into their new
connectivity module. They're solving a cost problem for device makers in a way
that can address a critical risk for consumers.

With perpetual cloud support, the long term maintenance costs of a novel
connected device are much lower, and there's less of a chance that your smart
devices suddenly die after a year or two when the manufacturer kills that
product line. If done right, this could mean the ability to buy any off-brand
or startup device product and not worry about losing ongoing support. This
could significantly increase choices and lower costs for consumers, and gives
Amazon an even more powerful voice in the ongoing direction of alexa-
integrates products.

It's also a brilliantly unique move, in that no other company can offer the
same blend of services around a smart home device. Conceivably, Amazon could
enrich this with purchase and provisioning, i.e. every device sold through
Amazon.com gets a certain lifetime support guarantee and arrives at your house
provisioned for your wifi. This could make experimenting with new gadgets a
lot lower risk.

------
fredley
The microwave is a genius move. The key thing is that it's a really cheap
microwave. Most people who need a microwave don't want or need anything
special, and will buy the cheapest decent-looking one, and this is where the
Amazon microwave sits. They'll sell crate-loads of them. And all those people
will then have a device sitting in their home with the potential to connect to
Alexa. So if/when they decide they want to play the smart home game, they'll
think 'Oh well we already have one Alexa device, so lets get an Alexa'.

~~~
kazen44
How many people own a microwave though? Most people i know don't have one and
would rather spend to money on getting a proper oven.

Microwaves also seem like they have little use compared to things like a stove
or oven. Atleast i personally have barely used a microwave when cooking.

~~~
fredley
This is not the reality I live in. Everyone has a microwave, and for people in
student halls or less affluent accomodation, it's sometimes the only available
way to cook. For many (in the UK) 'ready-meals', most of which are preparable
with just a microwave, are a staple part of people's diet - even among more
affluent, but time-poor people. There's usually a whole supermarket aisle
dedicated to these foods.

~~~
adventured
Individual accounts are of course often of modest value, however, I've
literally never known a person that didn't have a microwave in their home,
rich or poor, in the US. It's one of the things that is nearly universal in
homes.

They're too inexpensive to not buy due to cost, and they're too useful (even
if only used in rare circumstances) to disregard as a part of a kitchen. They
take up a small amount of space, and come in numerous sizes to fit spacing
requirements.

Essentially every supermarket in the US also has a frozen meals (ready-meals
as you say), or equivalent, aisle. The items in those aisles appeal to just
about every price point these days. They're clearly still quite popular.

------
twblalock
More evidence that integration and centralization create better experiences
for developers and consumers. Amazon is very successful in this area, and one
of the few companies with the resources to offer this level of integration and
centralization.

It’s a no-brainer for IoT companies to integrate with Alexa at this point. The
problem is that nobody in the IoT industry seems to care about security, and
Amazon does not seem to care about privacy.

------
newscracker
Is Amazon the new Samsung? Make as many products and product variants as
possible, throw them against the wall and see what sticks? It's not like its
shareholders mind having little to no profits. Selling things for cheap or
below cost helps it "innovate rapidly" (aka trial and error)?

P.S.: Samsung does make some good quality hardware in a few areas. I don't
know if the same can be said of Amazon.

------
BerislavLopac
I would say that the main difference was that, in its heyday, Apple was
looking and developing solutions for specific problems most people were not
actually aware they were having. On the other hand, Amazon has a bunch of
really solid solutions, very well executed, and is now experimenting with
known problems they can be applied to.

------
octosphere
It would be so cool if Amazon had their own OS instead of relying on Android.
They could use this on their Fire tablets and even have their own unique phone
with a unique OS to sell. It's sad that the we have to choose between Android
and iOS at every instance. I know of very few competitors (Like Purism).

~~~
user812
Ironically if Google will indeed switch to Fuchsia or another in-house OS,
Android may survive in some form as their biggest competitor.

~~~
binomialxenon
A fork of Android would probably be most successful in China where they don't
rely on Google apps and services. I don't think there's much of a market for
Android without Google outside of China.

I'm curious how long Google!Android will be supported once Fuschia launches.
Maybe 2-3 years, and it depends on how many existing Android devices can move
to Fuschia.

~~~
foepys
I don't think they will release Fuchsia and then immediately abandon Android.
They will most likely release it for some low-end phones first and then work
their way up. Maybe even release a Fuchsia Chromebook before any Fuchsia
smartphone.

Android's strength over Windows Phone was the app ecosystem and I don't think
an emulator will instantly be good enough to emulate all kinds of apps with
sufficient performance, especially games.

~~~
binomialxenon
It doesn't need to be an emulator. It would more likely be a compatibility
layer, like Alien Dalvik or Wine.

------
baq
once upon a time, on a site called slashdot, there was a meme (not sure if it
was called that back then) about our robotic overlords. i've suddelny realized
how close to home it's now hitting and am very nervous about the future.

~~~
scarface74
It was first popularized by the Simpsons.

[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-
ins...](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-
overlords)

------
davedx
Amazon is no Apple.

