
China, Japan, Russia, and South Korea Plan Renewable Energy Super Grid - binalpatel
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/21/china-japan-russia-south-korea-plan-renewable-energy-super-grid/
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harisenbon
I'm crazy excited that this might actually have a chance to come to fruition.
Back in my salary-man days, I worked for Hiroshi Fujiwara when he was doing
work on Superconducting DC technology.

The idea was similar to this one -- set up solar and wind generators in the
Gobi desert, and transmit the energy through a superconductor network to
Japan, Russia and other countries. The Superconductor system (I believe) could
transmit energy at nearly 99% efficiency,

We got to see the 200m superconductor track at Chubu University, which was
amazingly cool.

[1][http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875389212...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1875389212021268)

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codesnik
but how much would it cost to operate such a channel?

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Gravityloss
Looking at some ballpark estimates what targets it should hit, Japan consumes
about one petawatt hour per year. We assume 10% of electricity consumption for
one cable and a 10% slice of the value for transport. Electricity price 20
c/kWh:

10^15 x 0.1 x 0.1 x 0.2 x 10^-3 = 2 billion dollars per year

I have been saying it for a while. Looks like the renewables will cause a lot
of long distance electricity transfer lines to be built.

It's an industry ready for some disruption too.

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leojg
Maybe the biggest blocker for this project is the nations involved. Can such
degree of cooperation be made between nations that have huge political
differences, violent history and territorial claims between each other?

Other than that, this could set the precedent for more regional integration,
which is awesome.

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6t6t6t6
Developing these kinds of infrastructures that require tight collaboration
between governments are a warranty of peace on the future. When countries are
interdependent for their mutual growth and well-being, they have no other
option than maintaining peace and good diplomatic relationships.

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binalpatel
The article's about two months old - but I thought it was a fascinating idea.

I know that one of the challenges of harnessing renewable energy is battery
technology not being up to he task (yet), but I'd never thought about creating
a grid large enough that demand is smoothed out over a large region.

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reacweb
Could it be feasible at the scale of the planet ?

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Retric
You can link US / Russia with a 50 mile under sea electric cable. Which would
join, Afro-Eurasia with the Americas fairly easily.

However, local storage ([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-
storage_hydroelectricit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-
storage_hydroelectricity)) is going to be cheaper than shifting solar power
around the globe. Further, while you can connect any two grids (worst case
generator / alternator pair) that does not make it cost effective.

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maxerickson
The Bering Strait? Easily?

There's all sorts of things that are easy if you focus on an easy part that
doesn't accomplish anything.

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Retric
You may have missed my point. Under sea cables that distance are proven tech.
EX:
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man_to_England_Interco...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man_to_England_Interconnector)
a 40 MW 65 mile under sea cable.)

However, my point was geography was not the problem.

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maxerickson
I was thinking more about the thousands of miles separating the straight from
any large groups of people (on both sides).

Yes, crossing the straight is nicely feasible. Putting power to that crossing
is not so nicely feasible.

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Retric
Sure, sending 100+GW of power though there would be ridiculously expensive and
a huge waste of resources. However, there are some people in the area so
sending "nominal" amounts of power would not be an issue.

I do wonder how connected these areas are to a wider power grid. It's probably
cheaper to just have local power generation than run power cables to these
remote areas I mean
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales,_Alaska](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales,_Alaska)
has 150 people.

ED: Anyway, it's an economic not a technical problem.

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maxerickson
_ED: Anyway, it 's an economic not a technical problem._

Arguably the more important aspect of feasibility.

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surfmike
As a small country I really wouldn't want to be reliant on a grid shared with
either China or Russia.

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pavel_lishin
"Controlled by", I would understand, but why not "shared with"?

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surfmike
Once you're a small country sharing the grid with a big neighbor , I'd imagine
it would be very difficult to go independent after.

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the8472
> The next step in the process was the establishment of the nonprofit Global
> Energy Interconnection Development and Cooperation Organization

Interesting, that reminds me of IXPs. E.g. AMS-IX is one of the world's
largest exchange points (shared infrastructure) and it is a non-profit.

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binalpatel
Maybe I'm generalizing too much - but couldn't we say that electricity
generation is starting to resemble the internet more and more?

Servers (generators) that provide content, users (consumers) that want to
consume it. As more and more people use things like rooftop solar - more
servers are brought online, and the infrastructure needs to be updated
accordingly to direct the "traffic" well.

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rybosome
That's exactly the idea behind the term "smart grid". Rather than a network
which has a relatively static set of inputs and outputs, new nodes in either
category can join the network at any time. The US is doing research on smart
grids, though I don't have any real familiarity with it - would love to hear
more from someone who does.

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greydius
What about all the coal miners that will lose their jobs because of renewable
energy?

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mavdi
Getting real tired of coal miners, their expired jobs and their voting rights.

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piotrjurkiewicz
> and their voting rights

I bet you call yourself a 'liberal democrat'.

