
UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency - jaoued
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-citizens-live-in-uk-freedom-of-movement-european-union-a7601051.html
======
struppi
OK, wait, this does not make sense. If half of Romania an Bulgaria wanted to
come to the UK, they would already be there. Because free movement already
exists.

Why would anyone decide now to "quickly move to the UK", just because they are
leaving the EU? I would rather see this as a _disincentive_ to move there, as
a EU citicen, right now...

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It's fairly easy to foresee a rush to get in before the door closes.

~~~
wastedhours
Define "rush". There perhaps might be a small uptick in people who were
considering it, had plans in place and would now accelerate those plans, but
are we so arrogant as a nation that we think EU citizens who have had the
option to come here for years would now think, as we're about to say "f __k
you " to our closest neighbours and embark on years of uncertainty, will
suddenly uproot their lives to come here?

I have friends and loved ones who moved here from the countries mentioned who
contribute to this country infinitely more than a large number of native
Brits. No one ever really talks about the human side of all of this.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
>There perhaps might be a small uptick in people who were considering it

Like there was only going to be a trickle of immigration from the Eastern
European countries when they joined the EU.

Don't get me wrong, I was staunchly in favour of remaining and see immigration
from Europe as largely positive but we have to be more honest about it.

------
alecco
It's sad how even the Independent is now taken by misleading headlines. They
are considering stopping it 'after a “cut-off date”'' to prevent abuse of
people from poor eastern Europe countries to flood UK before it leaves the EU.
Right there in the first couple of paragraphs.

I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The
Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of putting
things in perspective of the opposing side.

Nowadays all turned into hardcore fanatics looking how to manipulate as much
as possible the news to provoke reactions in readers.

Perhaps they were cornered into this by the readership. And by Facebook and
other social networks creating a cutthroat environment where only nasty
clickbait survives.

It's very sad. We are witnessing the end of respectable journalism.

~~~
burkaman
What are you talking about? What is misleading about this headline? It doesn't
contain literally every detail, because yes you are supposed to actually read
the article. As you mentioned, the important details are right there in the
first couple paragraphs, not missing or buried near the end.

How would you have phrased this headline?

~~~
nothrabannosir
I'm an EU citizen living in the UK, and I held my breath reading this
headline. I was relieved to read alecco's comment (and the actual article). I
think that's what he means: the headline sounds like she's going to kick EU
citizens out. After all, the headline, as it stands, applies to me. Her actual
words, very explicitly, do not. That is misleading.

~~~
lopezyignacio
Also EU citizen living here for 2 years (so not entitled to the permanent
residency). I own a UK company and pay my share of taxes. Still I'm scared I'm
going to be asked to leave at some point.

Also, if I go visit my family on the continent, am I going to be able to come
back ?

~~~
alecco
Work Permit in UK is quite open for non-EU workers. Stop freaking out. Unless
you are a waiter or dish washer.

~~~
pjc50
Are you sure about that? Do you know what the requirements are?

~~~
alecco
Yes, first hand. They have everything on the government websites. As long as
you have a sponsor and not working on something trivial you are safe.

------
mcintyre1994
> “She will be giving clarity by setting a clear deadline while the European
> Union looks increasingly muddled and mean-spirited.”

> The European Union has apparently argued that the cut-off date should be the
> same date as the day the UK actually leaves the EU.

-

They're not sounding particularly muddled or mean-spirited to me..

------
rodionos
Is there a government resource supporting these statistics:

    
    
      > 3.6 million EU citizens who are already in Britain
      > 1.2 million British citizens living in other EU countries
    

I like the Economist in this regard, they seem to always reference source
data. It could be explained by the differences in editorial policies or the
fact that the Economist is on a weekly release schedule, so their fact-
checkers have more time to backup their inputs.

~~~
DanBC
It's a bit complicated, but:

[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati...](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/ukpopulationbycountryofbirthandnationality/august2016)

> 3.2 million of the non-UK born residents were born in the EU (16% of whom
> held British nationality, 83% held EU nationality and 1% held non-EU
> nationality).

> 5.4 million of the non-UK born residents were born outside of the EU (54% of
> whom held British nationality, 5% held EU nationality and 41% held non-EU
> nationality) – a reflection that EU nationals have the freedom of movement
> between EU countries, whereas for non-EU nationals there is an incentive to
> acquire British nationality.

[https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati...](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/articles/whatinformationisthereonbritishmigrantslivingineurope/jan2017)

> Around 900,000 UK citizens are long-term residents of other EU countries;
> the largest age group is aged 30 to 49 years.

I'm not sure where Independent is getting their numbers.

~~~
pimlottc
Those ONS numbers you cited would account for 2.92 million EU citizens living
in the UK (3.2m * 0.83 + 5.4m * 0.05), but there's also the possibility of UK-
born EU citizens living in the UK. Which admittedly doesn't exact fit most
people's definitions of immigrants but may well be included in the
Independent's number.

It's also not clear how how the ONS numbers account for dual citizenship,
since their numbers all up exactly to 100%.

------
acd
This should cause inflation of prices as the price of food increase. This is
due to it being more expensive to produce food in the UK versus importing it
from for example Spain and the Netherlands. Thus the average UK consumer will
be poorer.

Not limited only products such as vegetables.

~~~
alecco
What are you talking aobut? EU protectionism raises food prices.

~~~
pjc50
[http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/nfu-issues-warning-potential-
labou...](http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/nfu-issues-warning-potential-labour-
shortage.htm)

[http://www.producebusinessuk.com/insight/insight-
stories/201...](http://www.producebusinessuk.com/insight/insight-
stories/2017/01/12/post-brexit-scheme-for-seasonal-agricultural-workers-could-
be-on-the-cards)

“UK citizens do not like to come and pick our crops and so we have to bring in
workers from the EU; from Poland, Czech Republic and Bulgaria etc. They
represent 95 percent of our workforce and without them we are absolutely
sunk,” he said.

~~~
oblio
No, man, I'm sure the lower class British workers will be glad to work for
crap pay and be treated as sh*t just so the rest of the Britons get cheap
produce :)

------
toyg
It makes sense, I don't think anyone could realistically expect anything
different. Considering it's basically a starting negotiating position, it's
actually pretty good from my perspective (EU national who has formally been
granted permanent residency by exercising his treaty rights).

Obviously the devil is in the details, i.e. what it will mean exactly "after
the cutoff date": if one has lived in UK long enough to qualify for treaty-
rights but never actually exercised them formally before the cutoff, can he
still do it after that date? That's the situation most people are likely in,
at the moment. A reasonable government would answer yes, of course, but recent
news seem to indicate they are looking for any excuse to kick people out, so
it's not a given.

If you are an EU citizen living in UK, you should absolutely ask to exercise
your rights TODAY; do not delay, do not trust news reports, it's just a bit of
bureaucracy but could make a big difference in your future. Make sure you send
documents as recorded delivery and track each and every date.

If you are an EU citizen looking to move to the UK: just don't. This country
has decided they don't need you and me, they don't deserve our labour, our
ideas and our taxes.

~~~
barrkel
My perspective is a little bit different. If they want to kick me out, I'll go
somewhere else.

I am Irish; the probability is high that my nationality will be treated
differently owing to history. But if they want me to ask to stay, they can go
fuck themselves.

~~~
alecco
> If they want to kick me out

Did the article? This is about a cutoff date to stop a wave of last minute
immigrants. Nothing about expelling current ones. Don't let clickbait
headlines make you angry.

~~~
kbart
_" Nothing about expelling current ones. "_

Don't be so sure about that: [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-
news/2017/feb/26/grandmother-...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-
news/2017/feb/26/grandmother-deported-from-uk-despite-being-married-to-briton-
for-27-years)

~~~
MLR
This case is completely unrelated to the rights of EU citizens to live and
work in the UK.

~~~
Anderkent
For now. Presumably even if you were here for >5 years now as an EU citizen,
if you went to europe for >2 years, you wouldn't be allowed in, the same as
this lady.

------
Gys
More accurate headline would be: Theresa May to end [new] EU citizens’ rights
to live in UK

------
dgelks
As a CTO of a London based tech startup who has just employed an EU national
with a start date after the 15th of March this article is terrifying.

~~~
alecco
UK Work Permits are trivial to get for tech workers from anywhere in the
world.

~~~
dgelks
Sure, they can definitely come in with another visa but that requires a fair
bit more work compared to a 'local' hire which is an added cost. Then once
they get here (if the article is true) they don't have any right to remain in
the country for an extended period of time which makes attracting them
over/keeping them here even more difficult.

------
TorKlingberg
As I read it, this means that EU nationals will be able to enter the UK up
until it leaves the EU, but when it has left, those who entered after the cut-
off date will not necessarily be allowed to stay.

It doesn't look too unreasonably, and probably doesn't violate EU rules by
itself, but I wonder about a few things:

* How will it effect EU nationals getting for example a mortgage in the UK before the exit? Normally banks require a permanent right of residency and an EU passport is enough to prove it.

* How will EU nationals who entered before the cut-off date prove it to the government? Immigration applications can often be ridiculously cumbersome. Will someone who has lived in the UK for 20 years be expected to submit detailed documentation for every international trip in those 20 years?

------
ianopolous
Here is an actual barrister's opinion of the situation, and it isn't pretty!

[https://www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-
cit...](https://www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-citizens-uk/)

------
DrNuke
As an EU cit who left five years ago, working through short gigs and remote
consultancy made me appreciate their persoective but also think that we are
all going for a bumpy road and united might be better than alone.

------
kozikow
Hmm, do you think article 50 would further reduce GBP/USD ratio? I have some
money in GBP and I am considering selling now.

------
kriro
Made me wonder if I'm "the EU" do I respond to this by

a) Saying that the same rules will apply to UK citizens living in EU countries
at that point in time (hard line).

b) Saying "UK folks welcome".

c) No comment/ignore.

------
sparkzilla
Why is this on HN?

~~~
adrianN
Someone submitted it and other people voted for it.

