
Google removes Catalan referendum app from Google Play after court order - tbatchelli
https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/1166-170929190146-google-removes-catalan-referendum-app-from-google-play-after-catalan-high-court-issues-take-down-order
======
ericmarcos
The spanish government is trying to ban everything related to the referendum:
physical urns, ballot papers, websites and apps, violating the most basic
human rights. However, for each ban, 10 new websites/apps/bots will pop up. I
created a chatbot so that people can vote at referendumvirtual.cat and it went
viral in the last 48h. People will always find ways to excercise freedom of
expression and decide its own future in peace.

~~~
euyyn
It's not the Spanish government, it's the Courts in Catalonia. These are
orders from the judge in the Tribunal Superior de Justicia de Cataluña.

~~~
lsaferite
Who seems to be backing the Spanish government in suppressing the referendum.

~~~
euyyn
The judge in Catalonia doesn't mind what it seems to you or anyone: her job is
to interpret and apply the law. As the Supreme Court did, e.g., when they sent
a Ministro del Interior to prison.

The law isn't written by the Spanish government either, it's written by
Congress. A Congress in which nationalistic parties have more representation
per number of voters than other parties with a higher number of total voters.

Insinuations that the judges in Catalonia are puppets of the Spanish
government ignore the reality of Spain.

~~~
ChristianBundy
Are you implying that Congress isn't part of the Spanish government?

~~~
euyyn
Oh my god of course it's not, unless by government you mean something broader
than the executive branch, in which case you have to include the judiciary
too. The three separate powers is the foundation of western democracies.

~~~
roywiggins
This is a US/Euro nomenclature difference I think. In the US "the government"
refers to the entire apparatus- all three branches.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I think the US equivalent of the European sense of “government” is
“administration”, perhaps?

~~~
occamrazor
I would say “the executive branch”

~~~
roywiggins
The agencies in the executive branch are 99% civil service people, not
political appointees, and they don't change over every four years. The
administration is the President, the cabinet, and political appointees, so I
think that's the equivalent term.

------
jorgemf
Just a bit of feedback. This weekend there is a referendum in Cataluña, a
province of Spain, about their independentism. This is not supported by the
central government and it is consider illegal, and that is the reason the app
was removed from the PlayStore, the court ordered it.

Nothing so see here unless you want to talk about politics.

EDIT: as you want to talk about politics, them you should have a bit of
background. I think this is a good video (spanish):
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbeyN2fuz_4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbeyN2fuz_4)

~~~
enriquto
Would you say the same thing if Chinese or Venezuelan courts banned google
apps that give information "considered illegal" there?

This is ridiculous. The app just gives a list of the schools to vote according
to your address. Even if the referendum is "illegal" under spanish law, it is
completely bananas to ban such an app.

~~~
mseebach
No, because neither China or Venezuela are considered to be under the rule of
law. Spain is, and it's constitution is pretty unambiguous on the matter:

 _Section 2. The Constitution is based on the indissoluble unity of the
Spanish Nation, the common and indivisible homeland of all Spaniards_

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Constitution_of_1978](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Constitution_of_1978)

Aiding and abetting a crime is also a crime. "Just" giving a list of addresses
of, say, brothels is a crime in a jurisdiction where prostitution is illegal.

Yes, it's bananas that the central Spanish government has this reaction, but
it's a perfectly correct and legal reaction, and this is part and parcel of
the idea that Google should abide by the law in the countries where it
operates.

From a distance it seems that it would have been preferable to let the
referendum go ahead with as little fanfare as possible, but make clear that
it's outcome has no legal status whatsoever, but then again, I'm not in the
hot seat, representing a national constituency that's overwhelmingly against
independence.

~~~
SerLava
But it's a _vote_. Secession can be illegal in a democracy, but not voting.

Google would be right to let Spain threaten to ban them from the country.

~~~
x220
Voting to take an illegal action is not legal or morally correct, according to
common Western concepts of natural rights. Secession is an act of last resort
after all other reasonable measures to resolve a conflict have been exhausted.

~~~
SerLava
Let's leave the current issue aside and speak to your general statement - that
voting for an illegal action is typically considered immmoral.

Do you mean to say this is basically universal?

I'm American. I would not expect many people here to say holding a vote can be
a crime. Many people would say that secession itself may be a crime even if it
was voted for (while others would say the vote establishes the right to
secede).

But they would say holding a vote is a right that should be protected by
killing the people trying to prevent the vote from happening, if necessary.

------
marak830
I often wonder at what point should we (as programmers) ignore a countries
ruling if we disagree with it.

(Note I'm not arguing for or against here, I don't know enough about the
situation but thought it may be an interesting conversation).

We (generally) have the knowledge to get around most restrictions, some of us
can even bypass enforced walls.

I do wonder what it would take for a large subset of techs to say 'screw this,
we're going to flood their airwaves, satlinks, reroute all out out traffic'
etc. (Yes I know this is an impossibility, I'm theorizing here).

Edit(fat thumbs(

~~~
barkingcat
Sure if you are prepared to go to war. At some point, a company will have
enough funds to purchase its own military (aka corporate security department)
to go toe-to-toe with a nation state's military. At that point, it would be a
return to an era, for example, when the British East India Company can trade
opium and wage war on behalf of the English government because they disagree
with a country's internal anti-drug laws.

~~~
creaghpatr
In fact, Google purchased Boston Dynamics awhile back, although they sold to
another tech giant, Softbank.

[https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/08/softbank-boston-
dynamics...](https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/08/softbank-boston-dynamics-
alphabet-google-robots-schaft/)

Cyberpunk speculating aside, I'm pretty sure Big Food companies (Coke,
Monsonto, Kraft, etc) have private security contractors - due to the sheer
amount of physical assets they control, it would be irresponsible to
shareholders if they didn't.

~~~
tomjakubowski
Coca Cola's bottling partner in Colombia was, quite famously, accused of using
mercenaries to murder labor organizers in the early 00s.
[http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/26/world/union-says-coca-
cola...](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/26/world/union-says-coca-cola-in-
colombia-uses-thugs.html)

Similar accusations were made against Coke's Guatemalan bottler a few years
back. Of course, about a hundred years ago it wasn't uncommon for companies to
use hired muscle to harass, beat, and even murder labor activists in the
United States.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre)

------
enriquto
notice that the app is still usable from elsewhere, it is only banned in the
spanish market app (source: I have just downloaded it from france).

~~~
jarofgreen
Confirmed from the UK.

------
duncan_bayne
This is one area in which Android is _morally_ superior to iOS.

Even if an app is pulled from Google's app store, you can still download and
install the app from an APK.

Despite you being the nominal owner of your iOS device, Apple gives you no
such option.

~~~
gaius
The developer kit lets you run anything you want. How do you think apps get
written in the first place? Rooting Android phones may be more commonplace
sure, but claiming Apple gives "no such option" is disingenuous.

~~~
erispoe
You don't need to root your phone to install whatever apk you want on Android.
Just download and install the app.

------
smegel
Pretty sad to see this happening in a western country, in the EU no less.

~~~
PunchTornado
You mean enforcing the rule of law? I hope the law is enforced everywhere
otherwise why have it?

I am from Barca and this referendum shouldn't happen. We have other issues
that are more important like housing. Not all people here are for the
referendum. Far from it. Wasting public money and ressources when people spend
half their salaries on rent. Disgusting!

~~~
jknightco
You say you're from Barna but you call it Barça so I don't really know what to
believe here.

~~~
euyyn
Maybe he plays for Barça?

------
igaray
Do no evil indeed

------
anorphirith
This is very bad, people should be able to install any app that they want as
long as the app manufacturer / owner is ok with it. and they should be able to
keep it on their own device for as long as they wish. Google or a government
shouldn't have any say in this

~~~
LeoNatan25
Oh? Without going into whether this app in particular is good, should an app
that allows set up of child pornography or murder be allowed “as long as the
app manufacturer / owner is ok with it”?

------
meri_dian
Good. We should be striving for a more integrated world, not a world of
separatism.

People are naturally tribal. But tribalism must always be rejected. People who
hold onto tribal identities are excited by the prospect of political
independence, but unless real conditions for that group are made genuinely
intolerable, there is no excuse for separatism.

Catalan is one of the wealthiest parts of Spain. They are not being oppressed.

~~~
thinkingemote
Nationalism is okay if the nation is being oppressed (and are somewhat non
violent) see Scottish nationalism, Catalan nationalism, and later in this sub-
thread about a Russian situation. Tribal and group identity is welcomed and
defended if those in that group are at risk. I'm in agreement that tribal and
group thinking is bad, and I'm also possibly in disagreement because I see
that there is also oppression and marginalisation of groups by other groups.
I'm not sure what the solution is apart from talking about this clearly.

~~~
dqpb
_Nationalism is okay if the nation is being oppressed_

Define "is ok"

~~~
dqpb
Downvoted... Can someone point me to the HN guideline that forbids requesting
an OP to clarify what they are saying?

    
    
      - is ok legally 
      - is ok morally 
      - is ok politically 
      - is ok strategically 
      - is ok accord me 
      - is ok according to most people 
      - is ok according to the opposition
    

_Tribal and group identity is welcomed and defended if those in that group are
at risk._

Welcomed by who?

    
    
      - welcomed by me 
      - welcomed by everyone else in that group 
      - welcomed by everyone outside of that group 
      - welcomed by some people outside of that group
    

What are you even saying? Is this a personal manifesto? Is this alluding to
some sociological principal, political philosophy, statistic poll?

For a forum geared towards engineers, the quality of thinking here on HN is
depressingly low.

~~~
hacking_again
IMO, your original comment is too brief, reading as antagonistic. You weren't
just politely asking for clarification along with an expression of your
understanding.

And anyway, they're just internet points, who cares. I throw my account away
when I get to 100, keeps me from getting worked up about it.

