
LA Mayor Shuts Off Power at Hollywood Hills House That Hosted Large Parties - stx
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/08/19/904053260/los-angeles-mayor-shuts-off-power-at-hollywood-hills-house-that-hosted-large-par
======
kstenerud
A simple fine or some other existing punishment would have sufficed. The legal
system has had the tools to deal with rule breakers for centuries already.

Cutting off water and electricity for order violations sets a very bad
precedent, and is highly irresponsible. I'm shocked that it's even legal to do
so.

~~~
DoreenMichele
They got multiple warnings.

This is kind of like that Bruce Willis movie scene where his wife tries to say
her affair with his best friend was "an accident" and he says something like
"Whoops! I fell down and my dick accidentally ended up in your wife."

If you don't want your water cut off, don't invite your 200 closest friends
over during a pandemic, two weeks after they announced this was a potential
consequence and after the police have previously visited your house and warned
you in specific. Duh.

~~~
kstenerud
I'm just waiting for the HN response to a news article in a few years where
this practice has expanded to the point that an elderly couple dies of
dehydration and heat exhaustion after the city cuts off their power and water
for failing to properly maintain the sidewalk out front.

This power & water cutoff thing was originally introduced in 2019 to combat
unauthorized commercial cannabis farming as an alternative to criminal charges
(which is not terrible because no human basic needs are being withheld in a
commercial context).

Now suddenly it's being expanded to combat residential ordinance violations,
which is a quantum leap in bad ideas. I'm surprised that nobody sees the
problem here, especially the enlightened HN crowd. It's not like there haven't
been sufficient tools to deal with property nuisances & safety violations for
hundreds of years in ways that are effective against both rich and poor, and
especially not tools that can lead to such terrible consequences for the poor
as we slide down this slippery slope.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I've actually had a couple of law classes and worked in an environment where
legal stuff drove a lot of stuff at the company.

I think this is one of those situations where you want to survive this
situation well enough to have (the threat of) the sorts of problems down the
road that you are worried about rather than having worse problems because so
many people died in the pandemic that the fabric of society has fallen apart
and some of the rich people with bunkers in New Zealand are hunkering down
there while the not rich remain stranded in what is left of the US.

~~~
kstenerud
I don't get it... what's the problem with using existing tools, such as
bringing criminal charges against these people? That's within the law already,
and people in jail can't throw house parties.

~~~
DoreenMichele
They are letting people out of prison in a lot of places who haven't committed
violent/serious crimes because the prisons are a breeding ground for disease
in a scenario like this, the prisons are overwhelmed, the hospitals are
overwhelmed, etc.

I also see that as a vastly worse legal precedent than shutting off your water
to deter disease-spreading large gatherings. That's a great way to make sure
we can throw lots and lots of poor people in jail -- just as soon as the
pandemic is over the our jails aren't overwhelmed as a matter of course.

~~~
kstenerud
I think you may have misunderstood. The tools of increasing fines and criminal
charges (resulting in jail time or not) have existed for decades already, and
are proven in the field to be effective. This is nothing new. There's also
nothing stopping the courts from deferring a jail term until the pandemic has
passed.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I am going to refer you to this fine comment and officially drop discussing
this with you further:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24221493](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24221493)

~~~
apple4ever
Then you fix the system, you don't shut off power.

------
DoreenMichele
_Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti said on Wednesday that he had authorized the
city to disconnect utility service at a Hollywood Hills house after it hosted
several large parties in "flagrant violation" of COVID-19 public health
orders.

The announcement comes two weeks after Garcetti first warned that properties
hosting "un-permitted large gatherings" could have their water and power
service shut off as a consequence._

Seems completely reasonable to me. I find it bizarre that the internet has an
issue with it, the same internet that talks like the Gestapo about trying to
force every last person to wear a mask at gun point.

~~~
true_religion
It’s because heat stroke and dehydration can kill during the summer.

Punishments granted for health violations shouldn’t make the situation even
more dangerous. This won’t stop parties.

~~~
DoreenMichele
Given the context, it will be more of a speed bump than fines.

------
showdeadtest
I’m sure the notoriety that comes from hosting a party so epic the mayor holds
a news conference about it will lead to a dramatic uptick in rule-following.

~~~
sudhirj
No, but it will lead to a dramatic up tick in property owners telling party
hosts to take their money and get lost, which is the point.

~~~
showdeadtest
The point is clear; whether this action will advance public health goals is
not.

~~~
DangitBobby
Well, as long as they keep taking this action consistently, it seems pretty
clear that it will advance public health goals.

~~~
donw
I think you underestimate American willingness to tell authority figures to go
fuck themselves.

I don't have a better way of phrasing that.

This is, perhaps, both the best and worst part of our culture.

On the one hand, it gives you rebels that challenge the status quo. That don't
take "no" or "that's impossible" for an answer.

On the other hand, it gives you a population that would slice off their own
noses if the government told them that having one was mandatory.

I think our best course of action would have been to just... ask.

Across the board.

Republicans and Democrats, carnivores and vegetarians, people that understand
that the toilet paper needs to go _over_ the top of the roll and inhuman
monsters bent on the destruction of all that is good in the world... all of
them needed to agree that Masks Probably Couldn't Hurt And We Should Just Wear
The Damn Things.

Do everybody a solid, and wear a mask. No, we won't fine you, or shoot you.

There's nothing to rebel against when people just sort of shrug and go "okay,
whatever".

Also, work overtime to make the masks cool.

I think we'd have a higher rate of mask use with the Carrot and the Meh, as
opposed to just the Stick.

~~~
DangitBobby
> best and worst part of our culture

I admire your ability to see the silver lining. I see it as selfishness to the
point of toxicity.

I think the ship has sailed on asking people to wear masks. These people--
whether they have a borderline ODD tendency to "question authority" and "stick
it to the man" for the sake of "personal freedom" (read: selfish masquerading
as principled), or if they just can't care about how their choices affect
other people anymore because we are n months into a pandemic with no end in
sight--have made their choice.

They are not willing to do the bare minimum such as wear a mask or not attend
giant parties. I have to say, as far as measures to slow the spread go, these
two requirements are incredibly fucking easy to abide by.

So I say shut the power to their party so it sucks, and make it harder for
them to spread the virus even faster. Fines based on a percentage of income
would be better.

~~~
donw
The late Randy Pausch, in his Last Lecture[1] at Carnegie Mellon University,
offered up... well, a lot of great advice, but the piece that jumped into my
mind was: "It’s very important to know when you’re in a pissing match. And
it’s very important to get out of it as quickly as possible."

This thing looks awfully like a pissing match, and it's not just with the one
homeowner in Hollywood -- it's with _every_ person that feels the same way.

I would lay good money the cardinality of _that_ set is not a small number.

Doesn't matter whether or not it is a pissing match. It looks like one.

Were I running the state, I'd rather spend my time and energy on doing things
that would actually Get People To Wear Masks, as opposed to another round of
Pissing Match: San Andreas.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo)

~~~
apple4ever
Yup it does look like a pissing match. Its not hard to get around shutting off
the power. Its not hard to have secret parties. People have been using illegal
drugs for decades, despite the massive punishment that comes with getting
caught - punishment that is far worse than illegally shutting off power. So
why would this actual work?

~~~
DangitBobby
It's actually a little easier to notice and cut off power to a large
conspicuous party than it is to notice drug deals are going down to do busts.
It's not like all the dealers are screaming YEAH WE LIKE METH and dancing
under a stream of cocaine with 20 other people clapping their hands while
Billy does a kegstand.

And the action taken to shut down someone's power is to call the power company
and tell them to do some clicky clacks on a keyboard.

So definitely an apples and oranges comparison. That said, it probably would
be a pissing match ultimately as that person said.

------
hotz
For their next party trick, they'll take away your water and electricity for
wrongthink or not voting for the "correct" party. Shocking that some people
think this is acceptable. If freedom falls in the US, the rest of the world
suffers too.

~~~
hluska
I don’t recall reading anything about freedom to make unbelievably stupid,
selfish decisions in the US constitution.

~~~
zelly
It's mentioned about 30 times. Ctrl+F "vote"

~~~
hluska
Joke aside, I’m serious. How is throwing big parties in the middle of a
pandemic a’freedom’ issue?? The house was warned many times and now they’re
facing a reasonable repercussion.

~~~
lodovic
Because your right to stay free from Covid, requires people to behave in a
certain way (masks, social distancing) which is at odds with the right to self
determination. Sure, it's stupid, but people should be allowed to make stupid
decisions for themselves. Not saying I agree but I definitely see the freedom
issue.

~~~
brendawalsh
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-
determination](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination)

Maybe I don’t understand what self-determination means, but wearing a mask and
keeping 6 ft of distance from another person, does not prevent one from
participating in government.

I am waiting for people to advocate their free speech rights are being
violated for not being allowed to yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater.

~~~
14
We also have hate laws that restrict what I can say against people. Or slander
laws. I can’t just go tell lies about someone and claim free speech. Well you
could but risk being sued.

------
dmode
Why people would voluntarily go to large crowded gatherings at this time is
beyond me

~~~
neom
Scroll to 1:08:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87tlULQxfR8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87tlULQxfR8)

(this channel is like the TMZ for youtuber/tiktok)

~~~
bartread
I'm absolutely dumbfounded by the ignorance and stupidity on display here.
Beyond that, I simply don't understand the appeal of this kind of influencer:
she has literally nothing interesting to say and what she does say she
delivers in the most aggravating cartoon parody of the "valley girl"
stereotype and clearly with no sense of irony. What kind of role model is this
for young people? Just awful.

~~~
icebraining
I'm not sure she _has_ much appeal. As the first comment says "Most of these
people Idk. I’m just watching because I’m bored".

If you're willing to expose your private life and you have access to parties
of actual celebrities, then you're going to get some amount of attention by
people scrolling their feeds and auto-playing YT recommendations.

------
argggg
Regardless of the rigthness/wrongness of the situation as a whole, how is
shutting off someone's power in the summer not cruel and unusual punishment?

------
sushshshsh
Time for solar panels, batteries, maybe a generator, and some other electrical
knowhow to make the system efficient and failure resistant

------
swarnie_
Can we get a recap of the Corona figures broken down by country just for a
laugh?

I get the impression some countries aren't taking this as seriously as others.

~~~
threeseed
The leading countries are Australia, NZ, South Korea etc:

[https://covid19.healthdata.org](https://covid19.healthdata.org)

The estimate is that the US will be at 300,000 deaths by end of year. Whilst
NZ will be at 22. US is 65x more populous so if they adopted similar policies
would have been at 1430 deaths. And it could even be a million deaths by the
time a vaccine is readily available.

And people like to bring up the island nonsense but fact is that the borders
are largely closed with Canada and Mexico so the problem is purely to do with
domestic policies and behaviours.

~~~
oblio
Germany has 9000 fatalities with 81 million people. If we extrapolate the US
should have maybe 40000. And Germany has basically open borders with 10
countries directly and with about 30 through Schengen. And a much higher
population density.

~~~
me_me_me
I think that is much better comparison than New Zealand.

Though there is one massive difference Germans hate having freedom and are not
willing to die for it from Covid.

On a more serious note, this looks like a symptom of some fundamental crack in
a fabric of US/UK etc societies where the baseline trust is almost non-
existant (towards government, science, institutions).

~~~
threeseed
Does the US have open borders with 30 countries ? Or is it just 2 which are
closed.

And the behaviour of people in societies are determined by (a) leadership and
(b) policies of the various levels of government. That is where the US clearly
has failed.

------
brendawalsh
Flagged? Come on.

This is about electricity and the law and COVID-19.

------
gorgoiler
When working with children, losing ones temper is a great way to show them
that they have “won”.

~~~
DangitBobby
Do you think the people who had the power shut down on their party house feel
like they have won?

~~~
gorgoiler
To the extent that the organizers received both publicity and validation that
they were outlaws, yes.

It is also society’s loss to see the state and her leaders lowering themselves
to such spiteful tactics.

If it’s against the law, arrest them. Denying them access to civilization is
just the sort of retributive justice that makes so much of US law and order
problematic. What next? Ban them from buying food? Force them to wear dunce
hats in public? Throw them in the village pond and see if they sink?

Arguably it’s far more serious than a law and order issue though. A CDC cordon
and enforced quarantine would have tackled the actual issue: public health.

~~~
DangitBobby
I actually see it as the opposite as "lowering" or "spiteful". Without
political food coloring and posturing, it's exactly how you'd address bad
behavior in a child or animal. Use a very simple measure that is not overly
punitive (no jail time!) that is directly targeted at stopping the bad
behavior. Once the bad behavior has stopped, you are done. Repeat until they
learn to associate bad behavior with negative outcomes.

