

PG's patent on Continuation Based Web Servers (as used by Arc, Seaside etc) - nickb
http://www.google.com/patents?id=WE8GAAAAEBAJ&dq=6205469

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ardit33
Software Patents are a sham.

Software should be copyrighted, but not patented.

I wonder what would be if a writer could patent story lines: "It is like a
like a novelist, patenting all action thrillers, that involve a guy saving a
girl, who is kidnaped by the bad guys.

Watch out, any other books that have a bad guy kidnaping the girl, can be
infringing this patent."

There are many industries that flourish without the needs of patents. How did
we end up in this mess?

~~~
pg
_Software should be copyrighted, but not patented._

So physical stuff like valves can be patented, but not software? That seems
arbitrary. After all, it's usually the design of the valve that contains the
invention. What difference does it make if you print one out? If you mean
"nothing should be patented," just say that. One could make a case for that
argument. But there's nothing special about software.

 _How did we end up in this mess?_

What evidence do you have that we're in a mess? Have you ever been prevented
from doing something you wanted to because of patents?

The fact is, for all the noise people make about them, software patents just
don't matter much. Large companies accumulate patent portfolios to protect
themselves against patent suits. Startups file for them because investors and
acquirers are impressed by them. But they don't decide which startups win.

~~~
ivankirigin
"Have you ever been prevented from doing something you wanted to because of
patents?"

1\. Every year at CMU's Human Computer Interaction Institute, it appears
someone reinvents something patented though not deployed by Xerox PARC.

An example is a "looking glass" feature for something like photoshop, where
you can preview the result of an action like a filter -- or something like
that.

From the anecdotes I've heard, PARC just sits on it, doesn't deploy or license
it, and acts to block others from using it.

2\. SIFT is a new object recognition technique built upon years of research. A
recent patent on the best implementation has restricted groups from using the
techniques. They grant exclusive licenses on the level of "for all robots in
America", but that's pretty useless for a startup, isn't it?

I'll say it: nothing should be patented. Trade secrets, in the literal and
legal sense, make much more sense. If a system can be reverse engineered and
copied, you don't have a secret, and it isn't in the best interest of society
to block copy cats from beating the originator.

The idea that makers wouldn't create due to the fear of competition is just
wrong -- though it is the most often used argument to defend patents.

[edit: And another thing: people respect and fear patents, so despite my
opinions, I'm going to act in my best interest to acquire any patents possible
on my work. My goal is notably against the best interest of society as a
whole: create unfair advantages for my company.]

~~~
asdflkj
The case against patents is getting stronger as time goes on.

The rate of innovation constantly increases, and for patents to keep working
as they should, the term should get shorter and shorter. Even if the system is
made to be "fair" in this way, eventually the term will be made so short as to
not be worth the effort of filing the patent. Maybe we are past that point
already.

------
mattmaroon
He also appears to have made advances in birdfeeder technology.

[http://www.google.com/patents?id=Sl0gAAAAEBAJ&dq=%22paul...](http://www.google.com/patents?id=Sl0gAAAAEBAJ&dq=%22paul+graham%22)

~~~
nickb
This one's a lot more interesting:
[http://www.google.com/patents?id=jTkLAAAAEBAJ&dq=%22paul...](http://www.google.com/patents?id=jTkLAAAAEBAJ&dq=%22paul+graham%22)
"Remote web site authoring system and method" how Viaweb works/ed...

------
RyanGWU82
And these will belong to Microsoft in a few short months...

------
gojomo
My god! He's going to sue everyone who answers the Arc Challenge!

It's a trap!

~~~
bayareaguy
Claims 4, 6, 8 and 9 are pretty specific and from a cursory examination of the
current challenge solutions none of them work that way.

Could it be that at the moment the _only_ system to worry about a lawsuit is
Arc? Yahoo (not pg) is the patent holder.

~~~
mooneater
And soon it may be held by the Beast.

~~~
Xichekolas
... and on the First Day of the Second Month of the Year of our Lord Two
Thousand and Eight, the Beast issued forth from his Vile Abode and laid Charge
to the Land of Light, burying their Heros with irresistible Seductions and
Temptations of False Fame and Glory. The Heros of the Land of Light did hold
council, and after many a deliberation decreed that the Battle was to be met
with full conviction and the aid of Macro Expansions. And the Battle was
fought for twenty and three days and on the morning of the twenty and fourth
day, the Beast was slain by a mighty hero of the Light, whose Karma was
without parallel - Sir Paul Graham, Marshal of the Closure, General of His
Magesty's Symbol Tables, Diviner of the Continuation, and all other Titles
held and to be granted by Our Lord Almighty - Lisp - and His Son Who Walked On
Earth - Arc. And so ended an Age of Heros and Villians, the likes of which
shall never walk the Net again.

------
anaphoric
Yawn...

First of all it's not PG's patent. Its Yahoo's.

Second, if anyone ever goes after you on a software patent, celebrate! It
means you are a success. It means you have deep enough pockets to be
considered worth the trouble.

Third, as much as software patents are a joke, see them for what they are: A
little side show for the lawyers and MBAs to leach off the big boys and feel
like they are holding important cards. Hackers are wasting time/energy if they
get too worked up about software patents.

~~~
bayareaguy
Patents may be a joke to hackers but they aren't to the investors who fund
them.

Of course if you don't need investors for what you're doing in order to be
successful then more power to you.

~~~
anaphoric
Sure, it's OK to pretend that they mean something... If you feel it helps make
you look stronger, apply/get patents. Just try not to pay through the nose to
do it... be careful with those lawyers.

Just don't worry about stepping on the other guy's patents. They are just
paper really.

And as we know in this economy there is a lot of phony paper out there that
people just want to call valuable/meaningful.

------
systems
Are software patents evil? Yes, I don't really believe that RnD is software is
that much of a big deal, or that costly to justify patents.

For how many years was windows vista tested on real humans before its being
release? No, software testers don't count, they ain't real humans!

------
ijoshua
The patent appears to predate PLTaEURXs work.

~~~
pius
_"The patent appears to predate PLTaEURXs work."_

Boy, that extra character support sure would've come in handy. :P

~~~
ijoshua
It was an apostrophe, but since Arc doesnaEURXt support Unicode, fuck it.

~~~
nickb
What kind of keyboard do you use that has an actual apostrophe on it? Or do
you go out of your way to use Markdown (or something) to clean your input
before submitting? Just curious...

~~~
derefr
I'm scared to think, but there might be a Firefox extension that embeds Word
into text fields...

~~~
rincewind
there is, its called "its all text". It works for any text editor, actually.

