
iPhone 6 and 6 Plus not as bendy as believed - eglover
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/09/consumer-reports-tests-iphone-6-bendgate/index.htm
======
abduhl
This test shows a severe lack of understanding of flexural strength testing.
This test is a bastardization of the three point bending test that is commonly
performed for peak bending strength analysis of materials.

Bending is a result of moments and moments are driven by moment arms. These
tests should not be looking at point load required to induce deformation but
rather the moment required to induce deformation. Each of these should have
been converted into equivalent moments based on the size of the phone.

For example, the M8 is shown as 146.3 mm (5.76 in) H; 70.6 mm (2.78 in) W; 9.4
mm (0.37 in) D and the iPhone 6 is 138.1 x 67 x 6.9 mm (5.44 x 2.64 x 0.27 in)
and both are shown to "deform" at 70 lbs.

The M8 has an induced moment of 100 lb-in while the iPhone 6 has an induced
moment of 95 lb-in. The resultant bending stress by assuming a linear stress
distribution across the section is then 1575 psi for the M8 and 2950 psi for
the iPhone 6.

Similar analyses should be undertaken for each of the other phones.

A more accurate test for the failure mode of concern would be a four point
load test in which moment is constant across a portion of the phone. The three
point load test induces a moment that is maximum at the point of load
application. The four point load test is more likely to show you where the
point of weakness in the phone is.

~~~
knowaveragejoe
So what does this ultimately mean? Seems like you can bend any given modern
smartphone, given enough force. Is the iPhone 6 more likely to bend under
average conditions? Is there any substance to the hubbub about bending 6's? A
lot of jargon in your response, is this lengthy response just to point out
that their methodology is flawed or are you making a point about the case at
hand?

~~~
ics
The machine and example configurations:

[http://www.instron.us/wa/acc_catalog/prod_list.aspx?cid=833&...](http://www.instron.us/wa/acc_catalog/prod_list.aspx?cid=833&cname=3+and+4+Point+Flexure+Fixtures)

[http://www.instron.us/wa/applications/test_types/flexure/con...](http://www.instron.us/wa/applications/test_types/flexure/configurations.aspx?ref=https://www.google.com/)

\---

My attempt at a "for dummies" summary of the issue here:

If you look carefully, the Consumer Reports tests involve placing end supports
roughly 1/4" from either edge of each phone. Basically, all the phones are
different sizes and thus have varying amounts of material and torque being
applied between the supports and the part of the machine pressing down. A
particularly long phone which yields at 70lb of force has actually performed
better than a stubby one which yields at 70lb in this case. Hopefully I didn't
just say anything too wrong or confusing, because I'm not going to notice
until the morning...

~~~
philh
If any phone is going to be subject to the same force at the edges, regardless
of length, then that's what you want to be measuring. It doesn't matter if a
long phone can handle slightly more torque than a short one, if it's going to
be subject to a lot more torque.

I don't know what the stresses applied to a phone in a pocket actually look
like, but it's not obvious to me that measuring force rather than torque is
unfair.

------
tvon
Christ, will the damn thing deform if I keep it in my pocket like I would any
other phone or is it just a minuscule percentage of devices that have had
photos re-posted in the LOLOMGWTF nature of these inane corporate allegiance
squabbles? That is all I care about, I'm not trying to build a damn house out
of these things.

~~~
DAddYE
Probably if you'll not put the 6+ on your back pocket you should be good. Is
taller and thinner and so weaker, easier to bend.

~~~
JohnTHaller
The reports came from people putting them in their front pants pockets and
sitting. Your thigh is pretty strong.

------
suprgeek
Almost all the bending reports are for the iPhone 6+ bending & twisting
at/close to the volume-down button when placed in pockets etc.

Placing the phone between two flat blocks and applying pressure at the exact
center (three-point-test) will NOT test for this specific issue.

Even then it should be pretty suspicious that in the test conducted, the new
phones are at the bottom of the stiffness list.

On another front, the Apple response is textbook - Deny, Minimize, (deride the
press), then grudgingly make changes even while insisting that none were
needed to begin with. Expect the next lot of these phones to experience a
sudden stiffening.

~~~
emersive
All nine reports of the 10,000,000+ who have iPhone 6s. I really think this
whole thing has been blown way way out of proportion. If this were any other
phone maker we wouldn't be talking about it.

~~~
KJasper
Why would you believe a company that said about the antenna issue on the
iPhone 4: "You're holding it wrong". There are way more complaints and
pictures to be found on this issue than the ones that Apple reports.

~~~
swombat
> * a company that said about the antenna issue on the iPhone 4: "You're
> holding it wrong"*

Yes and... that was correct? Every other phone suffers from the same antenna
attenuation if you enclose it completely in your hands. But because it's
Apple, some news outlets saw a chance to make some pageviews by creating
another scandal.

The "antennagate" crap was roughly equivalent to people complaining that a TV
won't show any image at all if you set it up facing the wall, and writing lots
of grandiose articles about how Apple TV doesn't deliver on its promise in all
sorts of common circumstances, etc.

~~~
rtpg
Actually the iPhone 4 suffered the most from this because of its metal casing
(most phones were , and still are, made from plastic). Because this created a
sort of faraday cage for the cell signals, part of the design (the metal
border) served as an antenna. In fact, as two antennas (seen here
([http://jim93277.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iphone3_1_610x37...](http://jim93277.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/iphone3_1_610x372.png\))).
One for WiFi and other cool stuff, the other for Cell tower stuff.

But if you held it with your left hand, you could create a contact between the
two antennas and things would freak out a bit. This is 1000% due to the design
of the iPhone 4, and not an issue with other phones. It had nothing to do with
"covering the entire antenna with your hand".

So who's wrong? Apple, for not considering this? Or a good 10/20% of the world
for doing things with their left hands?

------
shawndumas

      Phone	                 Deformation	Case Separation
      -----------------------------------------------------
      HTC One (M8)	         70 lbs.	90 lbs.
      Apple iPhone 6	 70 lbs.	100 lbs.
      Apple iPhone 6 Plus	 90 lbs.	110 lbs.
      LG G3	                 130 lbs.	130 lbs.
      Apple iPhone 5	 130 lbs.	150 lbs.
      Samsung Galaxy Note 3	 150 lbs.	150 lbs.
    

Direct link to the video [http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-
hub/3809044640001/](http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-
hub/3809044640001/)

~~~
Mithaldu
First off, their own results show that the 6 series is considerable weaker
than the 5 series.

Secondly, they applied that force for 30 seconds and got significant
deformation. I'm fairly sure that, given more time, they'd reach the less
significant deformation reported and shown by others, with less force.

~~~
idlewords
The results show that the 6 series is similar in strength to phones of that
size from other manufacturers. It stands to reason that a smaller, thicker
phone like the iPhone 5 will be more rigid (though it's interesting that it's
easier to deform a 6 than a 6+).

~~~
bane
No, the results show that there's as much as a 50% difference in the results
between top and bottom. That's a huge difference in structural terms.

~~~
hnriot
No, actually what the parent poster wrote was correct. You say no, but then
don't make any point. It does indeed show that the iPhone 6 performs similarly
to other similar sized phones.

~~~
bane
What do you mean I didn't make a point? A 50% difference in strength is pretty
tremendous. That's the point. The iPhone 5 to the iPhone 6 is a pretty serious
downgrade, from "I can't damage it with my own strength" to "I can break it if
I put a little effort into it".

If you count a 50% difference as "performs similarly" I have some dollar bills
I'd like to sell you for $1.50 each.

~~~
hnriot
seriously warped command of the english language there. performs similarly _to
similar sized phones..._ The iphone5 is much smaller and therefore less likely
to get bent in the pocket. It wasn't that hard to understand.

~~~
bane
Then even given that clarification, the iPhone 6 plus performed terribly in
this particular test against similar sized phones.

------
capkutay
My biggest issue with Apple's response is they have not revealed their policy
on what will happen if I come into apple care with a malformed phone. Will
they blame me for putting it in my pocket wrong...or assure me that they can
either replace it or give me some kind of case that lessens the risk of
curving

~~~
godDLL
If you come to a Genius Bar looking for help with your bent device they will
inspect it visually, and if it doesn't look like it bent under extreme
conditions they will replace it. The ultimate arbiter of "normal usage" vs.
"extreme conditions" is the AppleCare professional, they aren't going to test
your device with automated tools for that.

~~~
marincounty
I'm sorry, but I don't want to be at the mercy of the manager of the Apple
store. I once questioned the way a Apple manager was treating a Salesperson
who was helping me. Well I guess I the Manager was having a bad day-- he
wouldn't sell me anything and ordered me to leave the store. Yes--I was banned
from a Apple Store. I took a video of the Manager with an Apple phone and
posted it on Youtube.(I took it down. I've always had a hard time with guy's
who get a little bit of authority and it goes straight to their heads, so
maybe I did something to piss him off?) After that incident, I realized
there's a hard coded line of command at those stores and if the Manager says
no--the other employees don't have any power.

(If anyone from Apple reads this don't let store Managers abuse their
position; you lose sales, and employee store moral goes out the window. You
can guess which store it is from my name. Don't take my version of the story.
Verify the incident with other employees, I don't think anyone would forget--
it happened feb 1, 2013, and "The Manager" was Greg?)

~~~
godDLL
You can't get away from people. People will rule your life, whether you let
them or not. People are the rule interpreters, enforcers and inventors, so
even strict rules won't save you.

And yes, virtually any corporation works somewhat like an army unit. Nothing
strange about that.

------
51Cards
Here's my concern on a quick look at the aftermath photos. They bent the phone
in the middle, where it's admittedly not that weak.

If you look at most of the user damage photos the phone bends towards the top
end where the button cut-outs weaken it. The phone did fail around the buttons
as well but it's still bent in the middle from the tests. It appears their
setup didn't stress it where the problems are occurring.

My estimation would be if you placed a load equidistant between the top of the
phone and the middle, stressing the buttons area specifically, you would see a
large difference in performance between models. The pocket issue seems to be
"bending over" the top of the phone, not applying point loads across the
length of the body.

~~~
msandford
The phone will actually perform better being bent this way as the distribution
of stresses goes from pure torque (compression on top, stretching on the
bottom) in the middle (where the load is applied) to pure shear at the edges
where it is supported.

The iPhone6 has a weak spot for torque at about 1/3 of the way from the top
where there are some buttons. This test didn't stress that as aggressively as
it could have. I suspect that it would perform 20-30% worse if you loaded it
at the weak point.

The real issue here is that the phone both grew in length and was reduced in
strength at the same time. That means that actions which previously didn't
approach the elastic deformation limit of the phone now are. No change in
behavior => change in result especially one with negative outcomes is going to
get people riled up.

------
saool
doesn't look like they applied pressure on the spot near the volume rocker
where it apparently has the defect.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
That doesn't sound right. If you look at their tests of the iPhone 5, the LG
G3 and the Galaxy Note 3, they clearly bend off centre, where I assume there
is a weak point.

This whole thing is stupid. I have an iPhone 6 and it just barely fit
comfortably in my front pocket. If it's just a bit off I find it awkward and
uncomfortable.

I would love to see tests involving the real people who are bending their
phones in their pockets. a) to measure the forces in their pockets and b) to
see how they can stand that sort of discomfort.

Edit: I'll be specific. When I am standing the phone fits fine in my jeans.
It's not great when I try and sit. In some positions it's ok. But in my head I
was implying that if it's uncomfortable, I take it out of my pocket. The 6 is
definitely the limit of any phone I'd buy.

~~~
idlewords
You are complaining that the big phone you bought doesn't fit comfortably in
your pocket. I don't even know what to say.

With regard to a weak point, the phone would bend there first in these tests
if such a thing existed. That's how weak points work.

~~~
zaroth
The problem is a bit more subtle than that. If you're highly vested into the
iOS ecosystem, and you need a new phone, you want to get the latest and
greatest, but the 6 is just too big for some people.

My wife and I stopped in the Apple store today, and she saw the 6 and 6+ for
the first time. She has a 4s (4.5") vs the iP6 @ 5.4" is quite large by
comparison. "Nope, too big. I want the same size as mine but that thin" was
all she had to say about it. It's a bit sad that her 4s is starting to show
its age, and instead of a 6 she's likely get a 5s instead.

I think a lot of people are wishing for a 5-sized 6. I'm hoping my 5 will last
two more years and that Apple will have a new release by then that's < 5".

~~~
danieldk
The iPhone 4s has a 3.5" screen, not 4.5" ;).

~~~
zaroth
You're right. I was quoting the overall height not just screen size.

------
wodenokoto
How much money does an article or a youtube video generate? It seems that this
one article alone must have cost thousands of dollars in equipment alone.

And while the iphone 6 bend video on youtube has almost 40 million hits now,
the unbox therapy user who uploaded it hits less than 500.000 views on average
for their other videos. I'm willing to believe that 40 million views on
youtube can be monitized to pay for more than an iphone 6, but I'm not so sure
about the 2-300k, so it seems like quite the investment to go around breaking
phones.

~~~
andrewchambers
I have seen youtubers who live off youtube with average video views of 20-30k
per upload.

If an ad plays on 1/10 videos, and each ad makes the person 0.1 cent its still
(30 million * 0.1 * 0.1) / 100 = 3 thousand dollars. Now take into account the
added subscribers this adds which will make all future videos more profitable,
and that I'm probably underestimating ad revenue, it is worth it.

------
userbinator
One difference between plastic and aluminium is that the latter tends to
retain deformation more than plastic, which flexes and then returns to its
original shape. This is exacerbated by the fact that aluminium cases are
usually made much thinner than plastic ones to reduce weight and cost. Also
the peak force produced by the impact of e.g. bumping against something with
the phone in your pocket could be much more than a constant force of the bend
test they used, and easily exceed the elastic limit.

If you compare the thickness of the material in an iPhone 5 vs 6 casing, I'd
bet on the latter being somewhat thinner. If that picture of the iPhone 5 is
after 150lbs were applied to it, I don't see much "case separation", only a
slight bend. It could probably take a bit more force before something
catastrophic happened. So it is possible that those used to the robustness of
an iPhone 5 are the ones bending their new iPhone 6s.

------
k-mcgrady
From what I've read most (of the few that there are) bending cases happened
with a 6+ in the back pocket. If you stuff a giant phone into your pocket and
then sit on it, and then it bends, tough shit. What do you expect?

~~~
happyscrappy
People are stupid, especially when complaining.

------
Cowicide
I'd rather see a test with robotic dummy legs (soft, human-like, padding
material) wearing pants with various sized pockets and the phones placed
inside said pockets (in various positions within pockets) and stress tested by
bending the robotic legs over and over to simulate sitting down with a phone
in one's pocket over time.

It would be a much more time consuming, expensive and complex test, but I
think I'd trust the results much more than what I'm seeing here.

------
chrisBob
Sorry guys, You did the test _backwards_.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think most people place the phone with the
screen in, so that it would bend toward the screen not away from it. The
results could be significantly different in that direction, especially since
the major mode of failure was the screen separating from the case.

------
Someone
I think [http://www.wired.com/2014/09/curvature-and-strength-
empzeal/](http://www.wired.com/2014/09/curvature-and-strength-empzeal/) ("how
Gauss taught us to hold a pizzeria slice"; discussion at
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274529](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274529))
is relevant here.

The phones most resistent to bending in their length axis have back sides that
are curved. That makes the backside contribute to the strength of the phone in
the bending direction. Flat backsides will bend easily, so the relatively tiny
vertical sides (and any ribs inside the phone, but those are rare due to lack
of room) are the main parts contributing to strength. That's why the iPhone's
weakest point is near a slot in those sides.

------
virtuabhi
If I remember correctly, in the original iPhone 6+ bend video[1], the force
was applied both at the top and bottom. Wouldn't that produce more torque
(with respect to centre of mass) and maybe result in quicker bending? The
ConsumerReport machine applies force only at the centre.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znK652H6yQM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znK652H6yQM)

~~~
oldmanjay
only applying force at the center would be a push

------
bentcorner
While I can't discount the possibility that the iPhone 6 may be more
susceptible to bending damage, I'm sure that the high profile release and
media coverage are pushing this out of proportion.

Reminds me of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epidemic)

~~~
Spooky23
Sure it is blown out of proportion, any issue with Apple draws crazy headlines
and overwrought debate. Remember the nonsensical antenna gate "death grip"?

~~~
XorNot
So nonsensical Apple wound up firing the engineer in charge of the design, a
man no one would have otherwise known the name or job of?

------
Htsthbjig
What the man in the viral video did was focusing the force in ONE POINT, not
in a line like in this experiment.

He focuses the force on the lateral side of the iPhone in order to bend it.

This is probably not very representative of having your phone in your pocket
as Apple says but makes for an impressive video that gives you views(and
money).

------
interrupt13
Do CR consider this a real defense? They've proven that the iPhone6's physical
weaknesses pair it with the lowest end of the spectrum (by a wide margin). It
is indeed more scientific than the empirical 'viral' story, but their results
do not bode well for Apple.

~~~
roghummal
CR isn't presenting a defense. They did a few tests and presented the results.
They then suggest the #BENDGATE drama is overblown.

------
S_A_P
While it's certainly important that apple build a phone that is strong enough
to withstand daily use, these "tests" are sensationalist click bait. Maybe
it's just me, but I'm going to be careful how I treat 6-800 device. If it
doesn't really fit in my pocket, I need to buy bigger pants. If it's too big
to fit jammed in somewhere then get the smaller one. There is a level of
entitlement here that is thinks every new phone needs to be nuclear capable
but also thinner, lighter and more svelte than the previous generation. I have
plenty of expensive gear that I have to treat with kid gloves and I'm not
making YouTube videos about how it's bullshit...

------
moeedm
This is getting fucking ridiculous.

------
jaunkst
Lol, we actually tested this in the office after seeing this. The glaxaxy and
htc one is considerably harder to bend. I sit on my HTC every day in my back
pocket, which is a lot mor repetive stress that an iPhone bending in your
front pocket.

------
everyone
Didnt the viral stories mention heating as a factor? The heat of the device
itself (building up by being contained by a tight pocket) + body heat. Writers
of this article did not mention that at all.

~~~
starky
If a phone got up to the temperatures where the materials were weakened in any
significant way they would be burning the operator and have never passed
regulatory testing.

------
LordHumungous
Ok, a comparison to other phones is not that reassuring, because many phones
on the market are flimsy. Compare it to the iPhone 5. That thing was built
like a tank compared to the competition.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
I traded my iPhone 5 in, because I got $200 for it. But I fear that the 5 will
turn out to be the pinnacle of iPhone achievement. I wish I could have bought
a new phone with the iPhone 5 case design but with useful tweaks like NFC and
an improved camera.

~~~
Tloewald
The iPhone 4/s was even more solid, and I think very attractive. A stainless
steel frame has its advantages (especially since I think weight is a non-issue
with devices this small).

~~~
jp555
More solid but over 20% heavier than the 5. An iPhone4 weighs more than the
much larger iPhone6. I think they're all under the maximum weight threshold
for how much a device like this should weigh, but every time I pick up my
wife's iPhone 4 it subjectively feels heavier than my iPad mini, even though
it's less than 1/2 the weight.

~~~
LordHumungous
Yeah but having a 4oz phone vs a 5oz phone makes literally no difference to
me. I'll gladly take a heavier phone if it means it is built more solidly.

~~~
jp555
why not just use a big metal case then? That way when you want to go super-
light, you can.

------
jaunkst
I don't think apple would ever influence online content to say that they are
not as bendy. That would be unfair. Give them a break guys! Consumer report
isnt making any money on this.

------
abandonliberty
iPhone 6: Now twice as bendy!

Confirms that the new iPhones are much bendier than the old ones.

------
Manapp
sounds like apple paid these guys to do this report...

~~~
gress
You don't think the bending reports are paid for by someone?

~~~
verroq
You don't think he got paid to post here? /s

But seriously they didn't do the test properly.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg)

------
discardorama
I dunno... 70lbs doesn't seem that much, given some of the backsides I've seen
in the US. Just sayin'...

------
mschuster91
45kg? Put your phone in your back pocket and sit down... if you're a bit more
fat than usual, 45kg is easily achieved.

I killed four phones to date simply by accidentally sitting down on them.

~~~
baddox
Putting your phone in your back pocket and sitting down is in the same class
of abuse as jumping into a swimming pool with your phone in your pocket. I
would never expect any phone to survive either.

~~~
Gustomaximus
Sony Xperia z2 & z3 are both waterproof. Quite amazing phones. A couple more
generations and this could be the standard.

~~~
bergie
Yep. This was probably the first actually interesting unboxing video I've
seen: [http://youtu.be/uIf9GdCzY_Y](http://youtu.be/uIf9GdCzY_Y)

(unboxing Z3 under water)

