
Apple's lack of daycare wasn't a mistake, it was a message - dvdhnt
http://mashable.com/2017/05/20/apple-campus-daycare/
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alaskamiller
Contrarian opinion click bait piece.

Apple is top heavy, just like the military. There many many many that have
stayed because their job is safe, their ESP is vested and earning them tons
for their nest egg. There are plenty of people with 10 yr, 15 yr or even 20 yr
letters of appreciation hanging on their cubicle wall.

What's more important is dispelling this myth that Apple's work life balance
is great or that they even pay well.

Unlike SF, working in SV most people skew older than 30+, have starter
families, and live in the suburbs. Their lives are already established. But
Apple is under market when factoring in the commitment you put in.

On top of that day care here in Cupertino or even the south bay are
extraordinary expensive. Google has child care, they even hire full time child
care providers that are even issued RSUs. But then, Google is building a cult
that Apple once were while Apple is transitioning to being a campus that
Google once were.

Ask the contract bus drivers here when you have a chance. They will all tell
you the same thing. Of the people they pick up, whether it's Facebook, Google,
Yahoo, LinkedIn, every Monday morning, the ones that look like they most want
to shoot themselves are Apple employees.

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cperciva
I'm guessing it was a typo, but the reference to SV workers having "starter
families" brings up some fabulous mental imagery.

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benjohnson
Note to self: No mater how bad things get, don't "pivot" the family.

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cperciva
If a starter family is like a starter home, after you spend 5-10 years saving
money you would be expected to sell the starter family and buy a mid-range
family in a better part of town. ;-)

~~~
taneq
Wouldn't you keep the starter family as a rental?

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bardworx
Couldn't you play devils advocate and say that lack of day care implies that
you should go home?

If the daycare is on-site, a person might stay longer at work since their
child is taken care of.

DISCLAIMER: I have no children which means that my comment is ignorant or how
a parent might read the same article or "message".

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taeric
To parrot the article. For companies that aren't trying to provide every other
perk on the planet, this is a reason that makes sense. For a company that is
including such things as work shuttles, food, and gyms... it is a little
hazier.

That is, they are making a clear commitment to prioritize things that reduce
the time you are away from the office. Having on site food is convenient for
the employer. Less time away from doing work.

Daycare, though, doesn't really do much more than help the employee actually
have a family life. You won't stay at the office longer, since it will close
and you will pick up your child and go home.

I'd actually extend the idea further and say what else sets this apart is what
people do in the other locations. It is not uncommon to network on a gym or
cafeteria. Daycare? It probably can happen. Doubt it does.

~~~
closeparen
It totally depends on context. My office doesn't have a gym, but there's one
next door and we reimburse its membership fee. Colleagues seem to find it
easier to go regularly during the workday, rather early in the morning or
after work. I think it's fantastic that this kind of "break" is allowed and
encouraged. In this city of dysfunctional transportation, saving you a "second
commute" to the gym is a valuable service.

Food? A nice lunch that I don't have to think about beats packing PB&J or
throwing away money on restaurant meals.

Dinner is provided very late, and is by no means an expectation, more of a
courtesy to employees working late for other reasons. It makes sparse use of
one cafeteria, where lunch overflows ~5.

Most engineers in my immediate area are solidly 10am-6pm unless something
comes up. (Several have hour-plus BART rides to their families deep in the
East Bay).

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santaclaus
> Apple’s future, and their employees will not stay 25 forever.

Most of the Apple employees I know skew higher than 25 -- of the companies in
the valley it seems to have the most long-term-ers.

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dhruvrrp
A couple of days ago someone here brought up a good point why companies should
not offer daycare- wait times to get children into daycare in sf are between
8-10 months. So in case the employee is let go/leaves then it'll take almost
an year for them to get their children in a new daycare.

~~~
jotux
If apple, and others, provided on-site day care it would take some of the
pressure off daycare in the region and the wait times likely wouldn't be so
long for everyone else (including people who get fired). Also, if they're
arguing this is such a critical benefit it shouldn't be handled by apple
because the impact of losing it is so great then why do they provide health
care?

~~~
mahyarm
Because you don't have 10 month waiting lists for health care? You get it
instantly at the new job.

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an_account
I'm sure Apple pays enough for their employees to pay for daycare if they need
it.

I don't really think taking care of kids is my employer's business.

~~~
Apocryphon
And yet, how the employee gets to and from work (shuttles), where the employee
eats during the day (cafeterias), if the employee is fit and healthy (gyms,
wellness centers) are all within the purview of corporate empires like Apple.

It's only a matter of time.

~~~
cperciva
Transportation, food, and health/fitness services are benefits to the Apple
employee. Childcare is a benefit to all the parents of the child - in most
cases, only one of which is an Apple employee.

~~~
learc83
Transportation, food etc... benefit the entire family the same way childcare
does because most families mix their finances.

For childcare, the benefit to the non-apple parent is financial plus whatever
benefit they get from making it more convenient for the apple parent to drop
off their kid for daycare.

For transportation, the benefit for a non apple family members is financial
plus whatever benefit they get from making it more convenient for the apple
employee to get to work.

~~~
coldtea
> _Transportation, food etc... benefit the entire family the same way
> childcare does because most families mix their finances._

They are not meant as services to boost the family finances though -- but to
keep them at the company premises more.

~~~
learc83
How does that affect the OP's comment that I was replying to?

> Childcare is a benefit to all the parents of the child - in most cases, only
> one of which is an Apple employee.

~~~
coldtea
It adds context to it that the other benefits are not meant for the employees
but for the company (and that we don't have much reason to expect one that
doesn't benefit the company).

~~~
learc83
>the other benefits are not meant for the employees

This is only relevant to my reply if someone you're saying that Childcare
doesn't benefit the company in the same way a gym membership does, i.e.,
keeping the employee around longer. I don't think you're saying this, so I
still don't understand the point of your reply.

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obstinate
It's not like Google's daycare is particularly accessible either. The cost is
far above market rate -- almost 2x from what I've heard -- and your chances of
getting in are <10%. It's not a free benefit, and it's not a benefit available
to every employee by a long shot.

I think Apple's failure to start a daycare sends exactly this message: we're
not good at running daycares.

~~~
itsdrewmiller
This would be my guess, too - along with the fact that Google is fine
outsourcing things outside their core competencies while Apple would want to
micromanage the exact color and count of every toy in every class.

~~~
obstinate
Well. Google does not outsource the daycares. So that would not be a delta
versus Apple in this domain.

~~~
itsdrewmiller
They started by outsourcing it, then eventually took it over and raised the
prices by a lot. Sounds like it was pretty dramatic.

[https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/business/05nocera.html...](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/07/05/business/05nocera.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all&referer=)

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iddogino
Still don't get why people are constantly surprised at the difficulty of
building a career and having kids. Having kids is a life choice with upsides
(awesome upsides imo) and downsides. Same goes for having a career in tech.
Wanna do both? You can, but YOU WILL have to work 2x harder than all the
people doing only one of these (arguably, you'll also get a lot more).

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simplehuman
I don't see why any employer has to provide for day care. Instead allow people
to work from home, pay for day care as a benefit etc. It would not be possible
to build a day care easily to satisfy all employees since this is very
personal. (Just like parents prefer different type of schooling)

And Google s day care is not free. And is like 2-3k a month ridiculously
expensive.

~~~
brianwawok
3k per month is not expensive in major cities for daycare.

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mcv
Are companies morally required to have daycare? It's a nice gesture if they
do, but my kids go to a regular daycare. Bonus is that they don't have to
switch daycare when I switch jobs.

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mahyarm
They also charge for food and the gym.

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mc32
If there ever were people who could afford private daycare, it's relatively
well paid tech workers (or any relatively well paid worker). If you wanna
complain about lack of daycare, take up the cause for the people (moms)
juggling multiple barely living wage jobs at the likes of global companies
like wal __*mart, etc.

This is more like well paid persons' problems. There are people who need those
amenities way more than appl workers.

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santaclaus
So would the Jony Ive designed diapers have a little Apple logo on the front?

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luvz2code
in fact I think of it the other way around. By not providing a daycare, they
would want their working parents to go home on time. Having a daycare at work
provides excuse to drop kids at care and work late evenings.

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JulianMorrison
In the Jobs-ian arcology, employees spring to life from the cloning tanks in
bodies that look 20 and are preloaded with Apple software. Reproduction is
obsolete, and so the ports have been removed from the design. Everything is
smooth and white and rounded corners.

~~~
Apocryphon
So you're saying that Ridley Scott got his ideas for Blade Runner 2049 while
directing the 1984 Apple ad?

