
Ask HN: Are you more likely to apply for a job that discloses salary upfront? - finspin
I started to work on a job board to improve my Node.js &#x2F; MongoDB skills and I&#x27;m thinking of actually launching it. But how do I make my board different from all others? I&#x27;m thinking of having a mandatory salary field so that each job would contain a salary range.<p>Stack Overflow data shows that job ads with salary receive 75% more clicks. https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stackoverflow.blog&#x2F;2016&#x2F;07&#x2F;salary-transparency&#x2F;#75. Other job sites are reporting 20% - 30% increase in job applications for ads with salaries.
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pjungwir
Certainly.

Especially right now, you need to attract candidates who are "passively
looking": people who have a job, but would move given a good offer. I do
freelance development and consulting, and I'm basically happy with that. I
wouldn't turn down a great opportunity, but I'm not going to start the
application process unless I know you can beat what I'm already earning.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Almost every single time I've decided to move to a new job I was passively
looking at best. Every person I know, even the ones who are happy at their
jobs, would be willing to move if an opportunity cropped up that interested
them more than their current gig (money is important too, of course, but not
100% of the equation).

I'm only speaking from anecdotes but I feel like finding a way to cater to the
passively looking engineering job area could be HUGE if done well. Trouble is
I don't entirely know how to do it well and not come off as spammy.

~~~
pjungwir
I agree about it being huge. But from an employer perspective, even if it's
not huge, what counts is the margin, and if it gives you a few more good
candidates than everyone else trying to hire, that is a big advantage. All the
things Joel Spolsky wrote about the developer hiring market change, if you are
reaching these passively looking people.

------
jawns
I doubt you'll get anyone who says that salary range disclosed in a job
advertisement is not a good thing, from the perspective of the job seeker.

The question you may want to ask instead is: "Does the benefit to the job
seeker of having a salary range specified outweigh the loss of potential
advertisers who do not want to disclose a salary range?"

If you're just doing this as a side project, with no expectation of making a
business out of it, then you may want to lean more toward what benefits the
user.

If you're trying to run a business and pay the bills, you might need to think
more about how it decreases your potential revenue, assuming the job
advertisers are the ones who are paying for your service.

One other thing: Salary range is inherently a fuzzy concept. It's possible to
set limits (e.g. the range must not span more than $20K, or the range must not
constitute more than 20% of the lower-end number) but then you have to take
into account that an advertised salary range is not necessarily the same as
what they're ultimately willing to offer you. And then you have to factor in
benefits, etc., which can make salary ranges misleading.

Edit: One possible way to make salary range disclosures more palatable to
advertisers is to borrow a strategy from matchmaking systems: The advertiser
discloses a salary range, and the job seeker discloses a minimum required
salary, to the website, which does not make any of that information public.
When the job seeker submits an application for a job, they receive a notice if
the advertiser's specified salary range does not meet their minimum
requirements. This keeps the actual salary range out of public view and at
least slightly difficult to estimate, but it prevents the job applicant from
wasting their time.

~~~
finspin
I'm thinking that launching just another job board won't get me anywhere. I'll
have to either a) spend heavily on advertising (which I can't afford) or b)
differentiate myself from all other job boards out there.

I live in Finland (5 million habitants) and based on my research only about 5%
of job ads include salary. It's not part of the culture to discuss salaries
publicly so it's very well possible that companies won't be willing to go
public.

On the other hand, I think it's quite promising that there are even a few
companies that are already publishing their salary offers, despite most of the
competition not doing it.

I see it as my job to convince them it's good for their business and start a
little revolution. Maybe others will join the bandwagon?

~~~
kej
I feel like the job board (yours, Monster, Dice, whoever) is in a unique
position to solve this problem. You can ask each side for their salary range
but then don't disclose it to the opposite side. You can then match candidates
to compatible jobs and everyone knows up front that the desired ranges
overlap.

~~~
Spoom
This is a really interesting idea. I would expand it further... OkCupid for
employment. Outsource algorithmic and language knowledge measurement to
something like TopCoder and add that as a potential dimension on which to
match. Education, clearances, experience: these could all be match dimensions.

------
shados
A range helps to know if it's even worth applying. If I see a range, from X to
Y, and my prefered salary is Y + 20k, It's probably worth talking to you
because there's a chance I can make the needle move.

If I'd have to make the needle move by 100k, then I'm not going to bother.

If the range is not shown at all, I'll still apply, but I'll usually start
with "While I negotiate salaries later in the process, my range is usually
around X-Y, depending on the role".

Too many times I went through a phone screen, and when talk of salaries came
up, it was just way off. And sure, phone screens are quick, but at that point
I already had to deal with the silly pointless puzzles for 30-60+ minutes.

~~~
Impossible
I've been through entire interview processes (multiple hour long interviews
over days) to get to this point, so a phone screen doesn't seem so bad. Anyone
have hints on how to gracefully breach the salary topic? I've also had
technical interviews where the interviewers are attempting to gauge my
"seniorness" because apparently resume and work experience isn't enough to
determine this. It's possible that many companies want to adjust salary based
on perceived interview performance.

~~~
marktangotango
One time an hr person called me to schedule an interview (after I'd submitted
my resume thru stackoverflow iirc) and I just asked her; can you offer at
least X? She put me on hold, talked to the hiring manager and said no. I
replied thanks, not interested. Ymmv

------
deedubaya
Lacking a salary range in a job posting tells me that "competitive salary"
really means "below market rate" in most cases.

I've found the best postings list their minimum ($70k+ or whatever). Maximum
is irrelevant, as you can assume it's around 20% of that minimum. It shows
what salaries and skill expertise they're after.

~~~
rhizome
I've seen ads that list a salary range of "$100-200K." Not sure what skill
level they're aiming for there.

~~~
6nf
We do this when the candidate pool is very small. If we get someone fresh out
of university with very little experience they'll earn the bottom of the
range. If we get someone more senior with relevant experience they might be
worth a lot more.

~~~
settsu
Not sure I'd want to work for a company with such... broadly defined roles...

------
JamesBarney
Too many employers think on one hand that they need hours of interviews to
verify that I'm a top candidate, and on the other think that 70k is a
competitive offer for me to waste my time applying to jobs without salaries.

~~~
nickff
If you want to quickly verify that a potential employer is willing to pay a
'competitive' salary, why don't you take the initiative and tell them not to
consider you if the position pays less than $x?

~~~
mbreedlove
Because that usually turns into you getting an offer of $x when in reality,
they may have been willing to pay much higher.

~~~
JamesBarney
I think this risk is a lot more prevalent early in your career or in the bay
area.

I can't imagine this happening in the Houston market to someone with 6-7 year
of experience.

------
themckman
As a current job seeker, its certainly helpful to see the range I can expect
when the process gets that far. I might suggest that you offer two modes for
input: exact and range. In the case of range, maybe, warn them if their range
is crazy big. I've seen jobs recently in the market I'm searching in on
StackOverflow advertising a range with the low end being 50% of the high end.
That doesn't actually help me when deciding on whether to contact.

If you really wanted to go crazy, make a publicly advertised email field
mandatory, also. If I find a job posting and can't send an email to apply for
it. I, most of the time, skip applying for that job. I might fill out a form
that asks for just, like, my name, email and has a file field for my resume,
but, it still rubs me the wrong way to fill that out. Give me an email address
and let me write a small personalized note with a link to my resume. When you
present me with a form to apply it makes me feel like I'm just a new datapoint
in your recruitment database rather than, like, a human being just trying to
start a conversation about how we can help each other.

~~~
finspin
Absolutely! Public company email is mandatory, I didn't even consider having a
job ad without it. Good point about the application form, it sure makes the
applicant feel like just another record in a database.

------
marktangotango
More than once I've gotten to the negotiation phase of the job offer only to
find the employer won't meet my salary requirement. It's very frustrating and
a huge waste of time for everyone.

------
bbarn
There's a big problem with salary ranges:

Everyone wants the highest number listed. This prevents employers from being
honest, because that max range should be the MOST They want to spend, but to
the applicant, it's the least they think they should accept.

It's frustrating as an applicant, and having been on both sides of this fence,
I've stopped listing it because it's a very easy question to ask on a first
contact: "Just so we're in the same ballpark, what kind of salary range are
you looking for? I'm not going to hold you to whatever number you throw out
because we've still got a lot to learn about each other, but I don't want to
waste anyone's time"

~~~
tbirrell
That also a dangerous question to answer on first contact. If I was applying I
would not believe you and just avoid answering anyway. Time will still be
wasted and this whole process will continue to be non-ideal.

~~~
bbarn
Why would you not believe me? It's not like I can force you to take a job
either way.

I expect people to want to either make more money than they are now (I never
ask that question, btw.. I think that's offensive IMO) or have a better
experience in coming to work at a new job, and any manager worth working for
should too.

------
junto
Absolutely. Job hunting is an intensive task. Knowing the salary range before
you apply for a job, is extremely important . Cutting out jobs that aren't
applicable from the salary perspective saves you time and effort.

------
jpulec
Having a clear salary expectation up front just saves both parties time and
effort. One of the big reasons salary ranges aren't always public, is because
it benefits the company, by maintaining information asymmetry. By but doing
that, you're at least in a small way, telling me that you don't want to play
that game and are more likely to be transparent with me about other parts of
the process.

------
lojack
Absolutely. If I currently have a job (probably the people you want), the most
companies I actively interview for at any given time is ~4, give or take. Any
more takes way too much time and is difficult to prep for. I simply can't
waste my time with companies that may take a significant chunk of my time and
end up not being able to offer an acceptable salary. There's a big enough pool
of jobs I know for a fact are within my salary requirements, so I don't need
to have doubt. Some of these usually come from job postings including
salaries, and some of them come from a recruiter (a good recruiter is a
valuable asset for me) who know my requirements.

------
segmondy
Of course, one of my terrible experiences was interviewing after a company
pinged and showed strong interest. Only to be offered half of what I was
making and been begged to take it because they are about to go big and shares.

I wish to know the salary upfront. I'll never take another interview without
discussing the salary range beforehand.

------
tixocloud
For the most part, yes.

Given that job titles aren't able to help me discover whether an opportunity
is right for my next career move, salary ranges help me to gauge whether I'd
be moving up a ladder and save me time from having to schedule something only
to find out that they were really looking for juniors.

------
MrTortoise
Yes.

It's a colossal waste of half a day or so plus all the conversations.

No salary range usually implies generic ad from some half assed agency trying
to get people on their books

------
ap22213
Total compensation is the first and only thing that I ask before even learning
about an opportunity.

I make $240k / year. And, that's a jaw-dropping figure for companies that only
seek warm bodies to fill seats. It's better to get that out of the way
immediately.

~~~
mailshanx
Awesome! Where / what do you work on?

~~~
ap22213
"Big data analytics" (lol). Hey, in this business it pays to ride the hype
curve for as long as you can...

But, basically, I just crunch PiBs of data, build platforms that inexpensively
scale to 100s of billions of writes a day, and generate astrological reports
that get sold for much, much more than I make.

My first mentor once told me two lasting pieces of advice to making money:

1) Do not try to know everything. Instead aim to know 5-10% more than everyone
else in the room.

2) Learn to negotiate. Essentially, understand what the other party needs and
how much they need it. Then, ask for the maximum that they're willing to pay
plus the amount that it would cost to replace you.

That advice has been on target for over 15 years. Believe me - are _way more_
rooms out there than you'd think.

~~~
ap22213
His 3rd piece of advice (somewhat unrelated): Find a boss that you love to
work for and make them successful. And, if you don't like your boss, run from
them as politely but as fast as you can.

------
jaclaz
I see the issue as information symmetry, the more the employer asks, the more
he should quote the salary and detail other "advantages" (if any).

To add some humour, from:

[https://tudorbarbu.ninja/message-to-
recruiters/](https://tudorbarbu.ninja/message-to-recruiters/)

"This is how most job ads sound nowadays:

We’re looking for a person with more than 100 years of experience in software
development, coding everything from BIOSes to cloud applications, knowledge of
all past, present and future operating systems and setting up secure networks.
The applicant must also be able to juggle up to twenty balls and read
hieroglyphs, be fluent in Swahili and dance like Michael Jackson (especially
moonwalking – nice to have at corporate Christmas parties)."

So, this is what is expected from you, it is only polite to list (including
fringe benefits, in detail) what you can expect from the employer.

~~~
bbcbasic
The gitlab confidence gap disclaimer is a refreshing break from this trend.

------
cwp
Absolutely.

There's no point in wasting either side's time applying to a company that
can't afford me.

On the flip side, if they're got very nitpicky requirements and are offering a
huge salary, that's a good signal that they really are requirements and not
just a description of the pie-in-the-sky ideal candidate.

------
derekp7
Here's the problem though -- often times, someone may have an open position or
two, for a range of skill levels. So they interview, and determine what skill
bucket the candidate falls into, and makes an offer based on that.

So the only way to solve that in a job listing, is to either give a wide
salary range (50k - 150k, for example), which then becomes useless. Or to have
one posting that lists a number of positions (systems admin level 1,
programmer/analyst level 3, etc) with a set of skills required for each
bucket.

~~~
rhizome
If that's the case, then they're simply cheaping out on paying for separate
ads. Which is a red flag to me.

~~~
derekp7
Except they may not have 3 positions open -- just one position, but they may
be willing to hire a more junior person with the hopes of training them and
given them an upward career path. (Unfortunately for the employee, the pay
doesn't typically increase as their skill increases).

~~~
dsp1234
It really is 3 positions though, it's just that they can only fill one.

Putting an ad out for all three, means better tuned applicants, and leaves the
company the ability to make an offer of a different position. From the
company's position, that's 1.5-3x the number of applicants, for the price of 2
additional ads.

When our company is looking for mixed positions (either a mid-level position
where we'll also accept a junior position, or a mixed role such as
dba/sysadmin), we'll put out two ads for the position that focus one aspect,
then mention the other as a nice-to-have. Then we get candidates who are
strong in one area, and average in another, or sometimes (when we're lucky),
someone who is strong in both. But either way, we get to choose the best
candidate, rather than having good candidates self-select out due to "you must
have everything" or super-vague posts.

------
swalsh
Having enough salary is important, but it shouldn't drive your decision (as
the employee). Not having enough money definitely matters, but at some point
there are diminishing returns on how important salary is to your motivation,
and future success in a role.

You know what I wish I had in a job search? Let me post a profile, not a
resume, but give me a survey. Let employers search for me based on what I'm
good at... where my strengths are. Focus the hunt not on "who has the best
skills" but rather "who's going to round out my team". The idea that specific
technical skills can be acquired easier than personality traits.

So here's the traits I'd look for. Every engineer has a mix of motivations,
some care more about tech problems, others care more about business problems.
Then honestly some are just more concerned about growing their career. All 3
personalities have equally important traits that are essential to a team. A
good team should have a tech guy to make sure what it builds is maintainable,
it should also have a guy who is always making sure what the team is building
is valuable, and then frankly if you have both of these guys they're going to
constantly disagree with each other... so you need another guy who will take
both viewpoints into account and determine what's better for the company.

~~~
st3v3r
While the salary thing isn't everything, it still is a very important thing.
And unless there's significant upside, most people I know aren't going to be
interested in a job where they have to take a 30% cut. Especially if they
already have a family.

------
aml183
I'm a tech recruiter and job boards are one of the worst sources of candidates
both for agency recruiters and companies. The best candidates aren't looking
for jobs and hence will rarely visit job boards.

Companies like Hired & AngelCo are taking a marketplace approach to the hiring
process. Arguably, the biggest issues with these processes is that you can't
attract passive candidates.

If you can figure out a process that attracts passive candidates, you will win
the recruiting industry. I think companies like HackerRank are in the right
direction by being a platform for recruiting, but not in an overt way.

A lot of developers use HackerNews, but not for the recruitment aspect, but YC
companies have an advantage because they can post to the job board.

As a developer, why would your job board be a massive difference to
recruiters/companies? Chicken and Egg problem, but with subtle differences.

------
josephhardin
I think it may depend a lot upon the candidate. I personally feel like I make
a pretty good salary, and with many jobs I would otherwise consider applying
to, I don't feel like it's worth the time to go through the interview process
just to find out their max salary they can offer is a pay cut for me.
Similarly if there is a job that looks interesting to me, but advertises it's
range and it's in the ballpark of what I want, I would be MUCH more likely to
apply.

It also provides a lot of information about what the job will be expected to
do. With what I do, people are not going to be willing to give me the salary I
want, while also wasting my time on remedial work when they could get someone
much cheaper that could do those tasks. So by keeping my interest in higher
salary jobs, I can try to limit it to jobs which hold more interest for me
personally.

------
hiven
I tend not to consider roles with no pay / range disclosed. Applying to roles
is time consuming and why waste time on it to be told the salary is far lower
than expected.

------
rudyrigot
Absolutely, even if the salary doesn't imply any commitment from the employer,
and that it's not one salary, but an interval (like, $150k-170k). When I was
looking for a job recently, I exclusively focused on Hired.com and AngelList,
exactly because their postings have salaries.

Why does it matter? To me, it's actually not about the money, but about
ensuring that what I understand of the job title is what the employer
understands of the job title too. Job titles are currently very loose in the
industry, and if I see a posting for a "Lead Full-Stack Software Engineer" for
$80k, I will immediately understand that this title does not mean to me what
it means to the employer, and will save everyone a lot of time.

------
slavoingilizov
Even though the wording of the question is great, I think most people will
take it as "Do you think disclosing a salary is a good thing?" Everyone would
definitely be more likely to apply if the salary is good, but less likely if
it's bad. The answer depends on the amount disclosed, not on the fact it's
disclosed. It automatically makes you imagine the "happy case" and say that
YES, it's awesome if I see a big salary and I would definitely apply more. But
reality is different.

I think it's an interesting point, but any results or replies are destined to
lead to wrong conclusions. It's like doing UX research by asking people what
they want instead of observing their behavior (i.e. prone to bias). So I
wouldn't take any of the answers here as relevant.

------
logfromblammo
Absolutely. I am sick of having my time wasted by companies that pretend to
want above-median employees, but whose pay scales max out at below-median
dollar amounts.

When I say I want $120k to move to your city, because you asked me to give you
a number, and you say "Uhhhhh... we can't even negotiate from that as a
starting point," you had better start putting your maximum number on your call
for applicants. Because I just found out you were _lying_ when you said you
pay competitive market salary for the job requirements you chose to publish.

I am also very unlikely to budge for less than the annual salary than I earn
now times the change-in-cost-of-living multiplier for the best school district
in your metro area.

It saves time on both sides for the employer to disclose up front.

------
jackfrodo
All things being equal, if I had to choose between applying to two jobs, and
one of them explicitly offered the salary that I believe I'm worth, then yeah,
I would apply to that one.

On another note, one thing I've been thinking of doing, (and I'd be delighted
if you did it!) is a job board that only shows positions with take home
interviews instead of in-person coding exercises. I think this is a growing
trend as people realize that they're missing out on good developers who suck
at coding under pressure with someone looking over their shoulder. I've come
across several threads on HN with people saying the same thing.

~~~
joshvm
The take-home system is great if you actually use it. I won a prize in a
programming comp from a well known hedge fund - lots of interesting (and
frankly hard) problems and I learned a lot. The competition was essentially
take home and submit a bunch of numerical answers. Several questions were
pinched from Project Euler, but I won't hold that against them... Small cash
prize and offer of an interview for an internship. I assumed that they would
take into consideration the submitted code, perhaps discuss some of the
solutions.

So what do they ask in the phone interview? "How would you reverse a linked
list?". Yeah, no. They didn't even bother to call back after I'd bombed it. It
struck me as a bit weird that they went to the effort of coming up with a
competition and then chucked the winners through the usual loop.

~~~
victorhn
Genuine question, but what is so difficult about reversing a linked list? I
don't have the algorithm memorized, but i can deduce in 10 minutes at most.

~~~
joshvm
It's not, at all, but it took me by surprise and I made a mess of it. In
hindsight the answer was less than 10 lines of python. The next time I went
round an interview loop I rote learned all the CS101 stuff, because that's
what you have to do (I'm not a computer scientist).

The issue was that the comp contained a lot of stuff that you couldn't deduce
in 10 minutes. For example, all-shortest-paths graph search, performing huge
calculations (e.g. stuff that blows up extremely fast), monte carlo
simulations and other bits and pieces. It would have made for a much more
interesting interview.

------
jachee
Unequivocally yes.

I need to know that I'm not wasting my time pursuing what may become a low-
ball offer, and I'm wholly unwilling to take a pay-cut, regardless of promises
from the prospective employer.

Once bitten, twice shy, as they say.

------
ChuckMcM
Hired.com does a good job of this, you look at candidates on the board (as a
potential employer) and you put in what you think you would pay that
candidate. They can decide if they want to interview for the job or not. As an
employer nice bit is that you already know that they would already consider
working for you at that salary. For the candidate they can see multiple 'bids'
from different companies and get a sense of the market and also see if their
own expectations are under valued or over valued.

------
madebysquares
Knowing the range is definite incentive to apply for a job or submit an
application. Too many times a company will not list it and then the range is
well below what I would be looking for. I will say glassdoor has helped a bit,
because usually that is my first stop when an interesting company has an
opening, that gives me at least some degree of what to expect.

I'm not looking for 200k but if you're budget is about 70k then I don't want
to waste their engineers, managers, whoever or my own time.

------
Franksey
I definitely prefer knowing up front what the salary for a role would be. I go
to work to get paid, so it's pretty a significant factor that should be
communicated early on.

------
RickS
Not just more likely, I flat out won't cold apply anywhere that doesn't have a
range listed. I consider any company that isn't upfront about compensation as
having something to hide.

Note: if you do this, mandatory salary field should be only numbers and
dashes, because everyone will just do what craigslist does: "DOE",
"Competitive" etc. See angellist for a good example of how to do this right.

------
lukaszkups
Add EXACT salary for the job - very often final salary is equal to min. wage
mentioned in range.

Also, used technologies at company - because another job offer for front-end
developer that uses Angular1, Angular2, React, Redux, Preact, Ember, Backbone,
Node.js, MongoDB, Photoshop, Gimp and has 10+ years of experience is just
dumb. Let the companies write about their flow, exact tech stacks etc.

------
misterhtmlcss
I think addressing the salary too directly e.g this is how much money give or
take $5k makes the hunt overly focused on financial benefits, which as has
been commented has substantial downsides.

I think that a standardized band should be selected. Substantial sized bands,
to dissuade purely financially driven people. You want them, but also as has
been pointed out you don't only want them. You need a range. Bands give
security that we are having the same conversation. I have also been
interviewed for roles where the salary being offered is substantially below
market value. What a waste of time tbh.

Also some way of getting at the intangibles would be great. For employees
knowing whether this manager fires regularly, his feedback in the industry,
etc would be helpful when selecting a role.

Cultural questions with answers are also good.

There is a great deal not be done to help the two seekers find the right
connection and it's quite shocking really how prosaic the tools are for
recruiting when you consider the money involved.

~~~
johnward
> to dissuade purely financially driven people.

Is there any other kind of job hunter?

~~~
draw_down
Yes, we're all supposed to be _passionate_ and _love what we do_. Working for
money is gauche! Why, the very suggestion sent my monocle flying across the
room!

------
kenjackson
It depends -- if the salary is less than my minimum then it reduces the
chances. If it is far more than what I expect, that also reduces the chance.
The ideal range covers 10-20% more than I'm currently making -- that will
increase my likelihood of applying.

The good thing about disclosing upfront is that it will save both me and the
employer time down the road.

------
simonhamp
Absolutely yes. Interestingly, just today I contacted a possible employee
through StackOverflow who _didn 't_ provide salary upfront specifically asking
them to give some indication of their budget.

My reasoning (which got me their expected salary range) was that without this,
it could well be a pointless exercise for all parties involved

------
arielweisberg
I don't consider most jobs and companies because I don't think they can pay
the same or more than I already make. A good problem to have.

That said I think most companies are genuinely looking for more inexpensive
candidates. Or maybe not? I don't know. I can never really tell what people
are willing to pay.

------
hiram112
Yes, but only if the salary is in my range.

I get so many recruiter spams, LinkedIn junk mail, contacts from former
associates, etc. - most of which have absolutely no salary range - those that
do and are high enough tend to stand-out in my mind, while a lot of the other
ones are simply mass deleted every few days.

~~~
johnward
I even if the ranges are listed I still think brain dead recruiters are going
to send you an entry level help desk position even though you have 10 years of
dev experience. I'm not sure how you solve the spray and pray nature of some
recruiters. Especially the ones who tell me "i'd like to submit you for this
req" after I've just told them I'm not interested.

~~~
aml183
I typically only send personalized emails to developers. Do you only respond
to emails if salary range is listed?

~~~
johnward
I try to use my judgement on the skill set to see if it's where I am in my
career. If it's actually personalized then I will probably respond either. A
range just gives both of an easy yes or no and saves time. Maybe I'm different
but I cannot imaging taking a pay cut to go anywhere in this market. If it's
even in my ballpark for skills you will be the top 5% of recruiters.

I'll get things like contracting gigs. I'll take one for a significant
increase to offset stability. Recruiters offer my current rate +$5 and expect
me to travel weekly and cover that cost... We're not even talking at that
point.

On job searches I generally ignore any position with no range or "excellent
compensation". I just feel like it's too low to list.

------
sailfast
A range is helpful but if the company is unwilling to put their actual max
dollar value up for highly qualified candidates (read: the range is not the
real range) it might result in fewer high quality applications.

If a range is not listed but the job is something of interest to me, I would
not hesitate to apply and then ask the recruiter / HR contact about the range
and whether expectations line up. It's one call and might help make a
connection or refer you to a different gig.

As an aside, anything that indicates "we're an awesome bunch of rock star
ninja people with competitive pay and benefits packages" typically results in
a tab close.

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arenaninja
Most of the times, yes.

Sometimes good benefits (NOT equity and soda, but 401k, healthcare, etc.) are
so much better than the norm that I may overlook the salary being omitted and
treat the interview as a discovery process.

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probinso
If the company's Target is noticeably low, then I really want them to put up
the salary. I do however want them to be very honest about there range. This
allows for me to be much more particular about what my other needs are from
the company.

If they are paying market rates for their employees, then I don't particularly
care. I'm comfortable with negotiating at the higher levels.

It looks like a company's range is dishonest, then I'm comfortable with having
wasted their time when I am searching for work.

------
drawkbox
Indeed, otherwise there is a cost time and sometimes money based on that time
to the job seeker to find out what the salary is.

For the employer this may suck because existing employees will see
rates/market and if they don't have an open salary policy it could cause
issues.

For the job seeker, you might also want higher and not go to a place that may
decide to pay you higher based on experience and skills.

A range is probably the best but a number puts job seeker and employer closer
to the deal just by seeing the numbers.

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pmontra
If I see a job that I like with a salary that I like, I could apply.

If I like the job and don't see a salary, I could apply only if the job
description hints to a salary that I like.

In other cases, I don't.

That means that if the salary is hidden and there is a mismatch between my
expectation and the salary, I'll apply and everybody will waste time.

If there are many people like me the number of applicants could be higher but
the effectiveness of the hiring process will be lower. I support the mandatory
salary field.

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ars
I would only apply for a job that doesn't have salary information if it was a
large established company, where I could feel reasonably comfortable that they
have a clue about what salaries should be, and a budget to actually pay it.

If it was a small business, especially if the position is the only one of its
type at that company I would not bother making any contact at all without
salary info - it's a total waste of time.

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allfou
Nope. I'd most likely apply for something I believe will be enjoyable 8-10
hours a day, Monday to Friday from January to December. It's called employee
retention and you should evaluate that metric yourself. If you let your
employer handle that part it'll be about knowing how much will be your next
salary increase. Which falls back to your question. Short term versus long
term.

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seattle_spring
No, because I've literally never seen a posted range that is at or above what
I expect to be paid, and what I've been making for 5+ years.

------
runjake
I have to feel super passionate about applying for a job opening that doesn't
list a salary range.

And maybe that's a good thing for both sides.

------
derekp7
This is the one nice thing about going through a recruiter (that you trust).
You can give them the range that you are looking for (a lower number plus
other benefits, or a higher number if it is a higher stress place), and they
can filter the positions ahead of time.

------
rajacombinator
No ... but I would only apply to a job that didn't list salary if I had a
ballpark range in mind for what it would pay.

I'm MUCH more likely to spend time browsing job postings (and hence applying)
that give a salary range though.

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dickbasedregex
When I was younger I'd apply regardless. Now, I won't even bother without a
minimum being listed.

I'm far enough in my career that I won't allow my time to be wasted. And if
you're hiding your pay scale, you're wasting my time.

------
SmellyGeekBoy
Why on earth would someone apply for a job if they don't know the salary up
front? When I recruit people I always disclose the salary, it signals the
level of applicant I expect for the job and saves wasting anyone's time.

------
pbreit
AngelList shows salary (and equity) ranges. They are pretty wide but still
preferable.

------
deanWombourne
I often don't even bother to click through if there isn't at least an idea of
salary. (Using words like 'competitive', or 'DOE' don't count, and earn the
posting minus points)

------
dccoolgai
The problem is everyone always throws up like "30-180k depending on
experience". Standardize that by making like 3 "sample" levels and nake them
say what they would give for each.

~~~
plusgut
With such a wide range I wouldn't apply. And when a headhunter comes to me and
just says "are you interested in a job?", without giving me any details. I
don't even bother to ask what it is about.

If you want to be interesting make an detailed offer with detailed
informations. And when it fits the person reading it, he eventually will
respond.

------
nickbauman
Location matters. Jobs being offered on the west coast almost always beat my
salary here in the midwest. But when you take into account the cost of living,
it usually ends up being a significant paycut.

------
nwisnia
100% believe that Salary should be a mandatory field on your job board. It
means the hiring team needs to have a budget for a role; plus has at least
thought about the market rate and what they can pay.

------
gwbas1c
I'm okay with no posted salary range as long as it's discussed with either the
recruiter or HR early on.

That being said, I apply for jobs based on what looks interesting, not based
on the pay.

------
smashface
It seems logical that more people would apply to jobs that include a salary in
the post. I'd be far more interested to know what % of employers are satisfied
with their hire if they included the salary or not. Additionally I'd want to
know how many people they found were outright unqualified if they included the
expected salary. My suspicion is that lots of [un|under]qualified people see a
great salary and apply just hoping to luckily land the position. That's not
say well-qualified people shun seeing the salary in a job post (as is obvious
from the comments here) but how much signal:noise do companies get.

------
grigjd3
The vast majority of innovations using the Internet here have been to service
employers. I think adding more information for employees is a great benefit.

------
zodPod
A range YES absolutely. I will ignore most that don't because if they're going
to not even get near my currently salary it's not even worth my time.

------
baron816
You should also require job posts to state what the steps in their interview
process are and an estimate for how long the whole process should take.

------
webmaven
Abso-frickin'-lutely.

Put another way: A job posting that doesn't disclose at least a salary range
has to be _much_ more interesting for me to apply.

------
newintown
a good salary is definitely appealing, but if I like the job (and I am
searching) I am going to apply no matter if they disclose the salary upfront
or not

------
marmshallow
Question to job seekers: Do you disclose your current salary to employers or
recruiters during the job search process?

------
jerven
Yes, especially for those who already have a comfortable salary and a nice
job.

------
mydpy
Traditional salary negotiation, which generally hurts the applicant, heavily
favors a salary black-box. So, a job board like this would help people who are
not interested in negotiating their salary but want to stay competitive.

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miguelrochefort
Yes.

However, you should not go forward with this silly job board project.

------
spikefromspace
Absolutely!

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sambeau
Yes

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sjg007
Yes.

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pmiller2
Yes.

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mf2hd
Yes.

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apstyx
yes

------
osi
yes.

