
Jesse Jackson: Tech diversity is next civil rights step - onetimeusename
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/07/28/jesse-jackson-seeks-eeoc-scrutiny-of-tech-industry/13270991/
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b6
Specifically considering race in hiring decisions, however well-intentioned,
is racism. We won't get to where we want to be by skillfully and fairly
applying racism -- we'll get there by _not caring about race_.

I grew up in a rural area in the southern US where racism was common and
overt. I can very honestly and sincerely say that I find this more insidious
form of racism, which is so widely accepted, to be much more disturbing and
frightening.

~~~
muglug
Sure, then conduct interviews entirely blindly without mentioning any
biographical information that betrays one's gender, race or social background,
and that might subconsciously sway an interviewer one way or the other.

Also, be sure to conduct the interviews in a society where the interviewee has
been brought up on an entirely level playing field, so they have had exactly
the same opportunity to formulate and achieve their goals as others with their
same aptitude.

Edit: see this Princeton study:
[http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml](http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/01/0212/7b.shtml)
showing a correlation between blind auditions and a dramatic shift in the
gender composition of orchestras in the 70s and 80s.

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argumentum
Talk about fiddling with statistics to make an argument:

"The result is sobering: Men make up 62% to 70% of the staffs of Twitter,
Google, Facebook, Yahoo and LinkedIn, _while whites and Asians comprise 88% to
91%_ , according to company data released in the past two months. Their
dominance is highest in computer programming and other tech jobs that tend to
pay the most."

vs

"Of Twitter's U.S. employees, only 3% are Hispanic and 5% black, but _those
groups along with Asian Americans account for 41%_ of its U.S. users."

As Christopher Hitchens said, you can get away with anything if you put a
"reverend" in front of your name.

~~~
eropple
I get what you're saying, but my intuition is that the numbers would still be
silly-and-wrong if you could omit Asians from the user numbers they're giving.
And I say "if you could" because my guess, which may be wrong but given the
way these breakdowns usually work I don't think it's a bad one, is that they
didn't have Twitter user data available to them in a more granular fashion. So
I'm more inclined to let that one go.

~~~
argumentum
My intuition is the same .. I totally agree there are underrepresented groups
.. but using numbers like that does not inspire confidence.

More interesting numbers would be the % of engineering applicants (which are
likely not available) or representation in undergraduate programs vs in
industry employment.

That would help isolate where the problem lies, which my intuition tells me is
earlier than in industry.

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kumarm
How about making sure Professional Sports (NBA, MLB, NFL etc..) has diversity?

I am not saying we should not strive for diversity but looking for diversity
when its convenient for us and ignoring other times would only make one look
phony.

~~~
anigbrowl
We already have. At one time pro sports were segregated or whites-only. MLB
was effectively segregated until 1947, the NBA was integrated in 1950;
football was never formally segregated as far as I am aware. Some argue that
hockey is still effectively segregated, though you could equally argue that
ice skating is simply more prominent in certain Euro-American demographics.

I presume you're referring to the prevalence of black athletes in some sports,
particularly basketball where thy are way over-represented. But that is in
fact the result of meritocracy. This is so dreadful to some people that last
year there was an attempt to form a whites-only basketball league, although
the chances of this going anywhere are negligible.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_color_line](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_color_line)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Fives](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Fives)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_American_profe...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_players_in_American_professional_football)

[http://africanamericanhistorysp2014.voices.wooster.edu/racis...](http://africanamericanhistorysp2014.voices.wooster.edu/racism-
in-a-segregated-sport/)

[http://www.thenation.com/article/all-white-basketball-
league...](http://www.thenation.com/article/all-white-basketball-league-
bringing-segregation-back)

I don't have a firm opinion about diversity in tech companies, but your
comment suggests you're unaware of the historical context.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I presume you're referring to the prevalence of black athletes in some
> sports, particularly basketball where thy are way over-represented. But that
> is in fact the result of meritocracy.

Its largely a result the economic disadvantage of blacks in the broader
society. Without strong educational opportunities and other economic
opportunities, the expected opportunity cost of a focussing efforts on chasing
a professional sports career from a young age is a lot lower, on average, for
blacks than whites compared to the other alternatives available to them

~~~
HarryHirsch
_the expected opportunity cost of a focussing efforts on chasing a
professional sports career from a young age is a lot lower, on average, for
blacks than white_

From a slightly different angle: playing basketball at a very high level is
like playing a musical instrument at a very high level - you need to start
when you are very little, and you need to play with great devotion. In your
average suburban paradise you can't even hope to play sufficient b-ball even
to untie Lebron's shoes.

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Impossible
When I was around 12 I was at the Bud Billiken parade in Chicago and Jesse
Jackson told my dad he should buy me a laptop. My dad has never bought me a
laptop :), but even then (1995?) he was promoting diversity in tech in a way.

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37prime
Would you go to a hospital where the doctors are hired based on ethnic
diversity and quotas instead of skills?

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
My last three doctors have been minorities, two of them were WoC, and they are
all much better than the two white male goofuses I went to before.

~~~
astrange
> two of them were WoC

How do you know? Is it your decision or theirs? If it's yours, would you
consider (without looking) people from Kyrgyzstan, Okinawa, or Catalonia to
count? Thailand?

Regardless of those answers, what do you think it "means"?

I'm just so curious!

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lnanek2
I think there is a good argument for diversity in tech. This article is
really, really, bad however. Look at one number they mention: > Men make up
62% to 70% of the staffs of Twitter, Google, Facebook, Yahoo and LinkedIn,
while whites and Asians comprise 88% to 91%

Then this number: > Of Twitter's U.S. employees, only 3% are Hispanic and 5%
black, but those groups along with Asian Americans account for 41% of its U.S.
users.

So Asians count against Twitter as employees and against Twitter as audience,
that just makes no sense.

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duncan_bayne
> "The government has a role to play" in ensuring that women and minorities
> are fairly represented in the tech workforce, Jackson told a USA TODAY
> editorial board meeting. He said the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission needs to examine Silicon Valley's employment contracts.

Looks like Jackson is trying to rebrand 'affirmative action'. Doesn't matter,
though: it's still a violation of the rights of almost all concerned.

------
mistermfc
While improving diversity in tech is certainly very important, I think there
are still a great many needs to be resolved before we can consider it the next
step in civil rights. Even if you consider same-sex marriage a done deal as
the final pieces start to fall in the place, trans* people often can't even
use the bathroom of their gender, for fucks sake. And then also there's voter-
restriction laws, trying to revert progress the civil rights movement has
made. So yeah, diversity in tech is important, but to call it "the next step
in civil rights" seems pretty disingenuous to me.

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Aloha
You cant make tech diversity by fiat however - it takes more people from those
minorities showing interest an in essence, showing up.

We are well represented by Southeast Asia, Asia, and I'd argue by women too
(though probably not enough) - but again, IMO, the limits are a lack of
candidates with a tech background or the drive/interest to learn (as well as
good training programs for them to build real experience in), not by any
inherent racism.

FWIW, I'm in Seattle, and YMMV depending on which region of the world/country
you're in.

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qwerta
Why are asians put into same group as whites? They are minority and are still
badly discriminated, mostly at university acceptance.

~~~
Mikeb85
That's news. At Universities here they make up a disproportionate amount of
students (ie. a larger percentage of the student body is Asian than would be
expected given their percentage of the overall population)...

~~~
QuantumChaos
They would be an even bigger percentage if not for discrimination.

The US used to have quotas for Jews in many universities, as did the Soviet
Union. The unofficial quota system for Asians is no different.

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varlife
I respect Mr. Jackson's earlier work, but he's becoming what he fought
against. Nowhere in his article were educational opportunities promoted or
discussed. Instead, an industry was shamed simply for the color of their skin.

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jagawhowho
Are tech companies turning people away due to their race? Or are there simply
not enough black programmers? If the latter, then diversity for the sake of it
is going to be... strange.

~~~
dghf
The National Bureau of Economic Research did an experiment where they sent in
the same résumé for the same job under "white-sounding" and "black-sounding
names": the "white" names got about 50% more call-backs than the "black"
names. [1]

Granted, this wasn't aimed at tech companies.

[1]
[http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html](http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html)

