
Widespread vaccine exemptions are messing with herd immunity - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/08/widespread-vaccine-exemptions-are-messing-with-herd-immunity/
======
jballanc

        "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and
        there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism
        has been a constant thread winding its way through our
        political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion
        that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as
        your knowledge."
    
            -- Isaac Asimov
    

I sometimes wonder if _this_ is the "true price of freedom"...

~~~
notJim
There was a person I knew in college who ardently believed in a lot of popular
pseudo-science myths, like the ones about vaccination, and that global warming
isn't real, that it's just a conspiracy of climate scientists.

In about a year, that person will be awarded a PhD in Aerospace Engineering.
The cognitive dissonance is astonishing to me.

------
droithomme
Almost no adults who promote universal vaccinations for children are up to
date on their own vaccinations.

Doubt this? Survey the people at your office about their last boosters for
each vaccine of interest.

Survey of whether adults have EVER had a Hep B vaccine:

<http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5518a3.htm#tab>

Total average: 34.6% of all US adults surveyed. That's much lower than the
rate at these schools.

Have you had your adult booster for measles? Only one dose was given to
children before 1996. This is now known to be inadequate. Those born before
1996 who have had no booster may consider themselves among of the inadequately
vaccinated.

[http://www.fraserhealth.ca/about_us/media_centre/news_releas...](http://www.fraserhealth.ca/about_us/media_centre/news_releases/2010_news_releases/measles_booster_recommended_for_people_born_in_1957_or_later)

~~~
dalke
So what? The document you linked to says the Advisory Committee on
Immunization Practices recommends "universal vaccination of infants; catch-up
vaccination of unvaccinated children and adolescents; and vaccination of
unvaccinated adults at increased risk for infection. " It does not recommend
universal vaccination of adults for Hep B.

The main recommended one for adults is a tetanus/diphtheria/pertussis booster
every 10 years. My last tetanus shot was about 2 years ago. I got my last MMR
shot as an adult - there was an outbreak in Florida and the colleges required
MMR boosters for all students.

The other vaccines in the US are recommended only "if you have a specific risk
factor" or for "certain medical or other indications."

~~~
droithomme
Congratulations on being up to date on MMR, unlike 65% of other adult
americans.

Here are the CDC's vaccine recommendations for you.

[http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-...](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/downloads/adult/adult-
schedule-easy-read-bw.pdf)

~~~
dalke
So now that you found that your first link didn't show your point, you're
digging up other links? Except the chart you pointed to is incomplete. You
picked the "easy read" chart instead of, say, the more detailed one at
<http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6104a9.htm> .

Take for example chickenpox. The chart you linked to recommends 2 doses.
However, [http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/basic-
immunity...](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/varicella/basic-immunity.htm)
says: "You do not need the chickenpox vaccine if you meet any of these
criteria for evidence of immunity ... Birth in the United States before 1980."
That's me!

Where did you get the 35% number for MMR? I can't find mention of it.

I found that "For the 2007--2008 season, influenza vaccination coverage among
adults aged 50--64 years was 34%, and coverage among adults aged ≥65 years was
66%" and that "the goals for adult vaccination coverage with influenza and
pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccines are 90% for each vaccine."

I hadn't realized that. 10 years ago it was only recommended for people in
their 50s or older. I have never gotten influenza virus, as I followed the
recommendation of a now outdated schedule.

------
islon
Children should't pay for their parents ignorance. Vaccines should be
mandatory with very few exception where the child can't be vaccinated because
of some real problem.

~~~
mgarfias
What would you tell the parents of a child who died due to the vaccines you
mandate? Yes, kids die, and have other complications.

~~~
jfb
The same thing you tell a parent of a child that dies of pertussis caught from
an unvaccinated schoolmate. I am sympathetic to exceptions to vaccination, but
only those that accept the science. When pseudoscientific twaddle preys on the
natural fears of parents, it has transcended bafflegab and is flirting with
actual _evil_.

~~~
bwaldrep
For example:

[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/opinion/for-the-herds-
sake...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/opinion/for-the-herds-sake-
vaccinate.html?_r=1)

<http://danamccaffery.com/openletter.html>

------
tokenadult
Here is a link to the American Journal of Public Health article underlying the
Ars Technica article kindly submitted here.

[http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2012.3...](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2012.300821)

Alison Buttenheim, Malia Jones, and Yelena Baras. Exposure of California
Kindergartners to Students With Personal Belief Exemptions From Mandated
School Entry Vaccinations. American Journal of Public Health: August 2012,
Vol. 102, No. 8, pp. e59-e67.

doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2012.300821

The website Science-Based Medicine has especially good reporting and
commentary on vaccine policy issues,

[http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/category/vacci...](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/category/vaccines/)

with two recent stories of note:

"Holding the Polio Vaccine Hostage,"

[http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/holding-the-
po...](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/holding-the-polio-
vaccine-hostage/)

describing what's holding back efforts to eliminate polio in the same way that
smallpox was eliminated by mass vaccination,

and

"Steve Novella vs. Julian Whitaker on vaccines at FreedomFest,"

[http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/battling-
antiv...](http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/battling-
antivaccinationists-at-freedomfest/)

describing a debate between an opponent of vaccination and a knowledgeable
doctor.

------
tedunangst
California should start a special charter school for the unvaccinated
children.

~~~
jemfinch
No, parents who want their kids to remain unvaccinated should do so.
California should not enable anti-science stupidity; not with my tax dollars,
at least.

~~~
YokoZar
I think the idea was to put the unvaccinated children into their own ghetto so
those with selfish parents don't infect the rest of us.

------
JoeAltmaier
tl:dr: ignorant people are hurting themselves

~~~
jfb
Correction: they hurt us all.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Indirectly I suppose. How does my sick neighbor directly hurt me?

~~~
kscaldef
TFA: "Herd immunity occurs when a few unvaccinated children are protected by
the fact that almost everyone around is vaccinated and therefore cannot infect
them. It's important for those for whom vaccines have not worked, those who
have immune problems, or those who cannot be vaccinated due to specific health
risks"

~~~
sliverstorm
Additionally, vaccines are not 100% effective- think of them as conferring
greatly improved _resistance_ , rather than _total immunity_. Herd immunity
helps add that last few %.

------
givan
Some worries are justified, why doesn't a startup want to come with a solution
to the actual vaccine that has lots of side effects because of all the
adjuvants like mercury?

Is sad that facebook and instagram are the examples that most want to follow
instead of making startups that have goals that can really help society.

~~~
jfb
Because virology is not a zero-capital business? Too, it can't be learned to
any usefully significant degree by reading _Microbiology for Dummies_ and
watching Khan Academy videos?

~~~
eckyptang
I think you managed to sum up the ignorance of startup culture nicely there.

------
patrickgzill
According to the study I found, 1 in ~300 Amish have autism. 1 in 90 of the
regular population have autism.

The fear of autism shows people are in fact paying attention; whether vaccines
"cause it" of course is really the question...

~~~
eckyptang
Apparently, the quality of men's sperm declines as they get older resulting in
various genetic abnormalities.

The Amish seem to have families quite young whilst the rest of us are slaving
away trying to get a house in the suburbs before we have children.

I'd consider that to be a better correlation than vaccines.

~~~
sliverstorm
Not to mention, the Amish are a fairly isolated genetic pool. The Amish could
simply have a lower prevalence of autism the same way those of Northern
European ancestry have a higher prevalence of red hair.

~~~
eckyptang
That's a very good point. Genetic diversity brings good and bad.

