
Amazon Go Cashierless Supermarkets, Pop-Up Stores Coming Soon - joeyespo
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-20/amazon-go-cashierless-supermarkets-pop-up-stores-coming-soon
======
daenz
I went to an Amazon Go store for the first time recently. I grabbed some sushi
and a wrap, and it was surprisingly tasty and inexpensive. For the location
and quality, it made me think they have to be taking a loss (or just breaking
even) on the products.

The store itself was nice enough. But it was small, and felt like a novelty,
like a lab experiment and not an actual convenience store. As a software
engineer, I was also keenly aware of the massive array of tracking technology
all around me, and that didn't feel great.

I don't really have any complaints. It was convenient, but not "oh wow this
changes my life" convenient. If this kind of technology pushes down the prices
(though that's honestly hard for me to see how), that will be a benefit.

~~~
jcims
I had the same impression of the one in Seattle. Small, weird, good quality,
suspiciously great prices.

~~~
dugditches
Guess they're going the Costco loss leader hotdog route.

~~~
jcims
I don't know if everybody understands the Costco 1.50 hot dog. It's the great
dane of hot dogs. It's a meal by itself.

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trenning
I've enjoyed the convenience of the Go stores since they opened, but one thing
that's popped into my head is how 'classist' this type of store is, especially
in a city like Seattle where they started.

To be allowed into the store requires a few prerequisites which unfortunately
not everyone has the benefit of possessing; smart phone with data service,
credit card, amazon account.

For most people this is no problem. But what about all the people who rely on
cash based systems to exist? What about people who don't have smart phones
with internet plans (though this is becoming an increasingly small population,
it's still very prevalent)?

Now what happens to those people when this becomes a standard and the
alternative options diminish? Food deserts in underserved (poor) neighborhoods
are already wide spread in the US, this credit based system which relies on an
app will only make it harder for people who already suffer.

~~~
scarface74
Just for reference, 81% of Americans have smart phones.

[https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/02/05/smartphone-
own...](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/02/05/smartphone-ownership-is-
growing-rapidly-around-the-world-but-not-always-equally/)

75% of Americans have credit cards.

[https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/ownership-
stati...](https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/ownership-
statistics.php)

10% of Americans use only cash.

[https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/payment-
method-...](https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/payment-method-
statistics-1276.php)

~~~
ohbleek
Just for more clarity then:

62.7 million Americans don’t have smart phones

82.5 million Americans don’t have credit cards

33 million Americans use only cash

Another way to look at it

The equivalent of the entire population of the United Kingdom not having smart
phones

The entire population of Germany not having credit cards

Nearly the entire population of Canada using only cash

~~~
scarface74
Are you basing that calculation on the total population or just adults?

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joezydeco
I was a pretty regular user of the Go store near my commuter train home.

Lately there are numerous items at my store that have gone out of stock, some
of them for a few weeks now, and telling them about it gets a shrug and a
"sorry, 'corporate' controls inventory" response. Not sure what 'corporate'
means here but okay.

Long story short - Go is a fun thingy but I don't think they're ready for
retail. I deleted my app.

~~~
skunkworker
In contrast whenever I’m at Trader Joe’s and they are out of an item and I
ask, they’ll usually tell which truck it’ll be on within a day or two.

~~~
Klinky
Trader Joe's is a bad example, they are notorious for discontinuing items that
never return to shelves. This behavior is referenced in this old viral video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdB7GDZY3Pk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdB7GDZY3Pk)

~~~
inferiorhuman
They discontinue plenty of things, but the employees are more helpful and more
informed than the Amazon example.

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jvagner
At my office there’s a fridge with a card reader. You can take whatever you
want out of the fridge after swiping your card. There’s breakfast and lunch
and snack items in the fridge. Some company has already replicated the Amazon
Go model for a use case that ... I would argue ... makes more sense. (Unless
they were first)

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dillondoyle
Wow if they can convince their competition to use the system, and they can use
that data, that would be hugely valuable. Not just for grocery/online sales
but I'm thinking of data use for their fast growing ad network.

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remarkEon
Airports make a lot of sense to me. Movie theatres kind of do. Supermarkets
don’t. If I squint hard enough I can see it working (I’ve been to the Go store
a couple times and it is indeed a great if weird experience), but food like
vegetables seems harder to do this with than prepackaged sandwiches and sodas.
How do you handle things that are priced by weight? For example potatoes, or
steak. Make the customer print a label with a QR code the cameras can read?
That sounds like a terrible experience, and the “solve” is more packaging and
trash - something Amazon already causes a lot of.

~~~
s3krit
Here in Germany, it's common to weigh goods that are priced by weight and then
have a sticker printed out to stick on them for the cashier. I don't see
printing a QR code or whatever weird mechanism Amazon uses to price items
being much more complex

~~~
remarkEon
Interesting. I am skeptical that US consumers would have the discipline to do
this. Maybe another way to solve this problem would be adding a weigh station
next to each SKU (or group of SKUs), and then the station logs the weight in
the app as the customer puts the item in their bag?

~~~
jiofih
That’s also common, in the self-checkout machines. Instead of scanning the
barcode you just drop the item on the surface and select it on the screen.

~~~
remarkEon
True, I didn’t consider that. I suppose it’s not that expensive to put scales
everywhere.

~~~
sithadmin
Depends on the state in the US. Almost every state has relatively strict
requirements regarding which models of scales may be used for trade (pricing),
and some impose taxes and other fees to keep them in operation. Most scales on
grocer floors that are accessible to customers (if you can even find them
these days) are clearly marked as "not legal for trade" or have a similar
disclaimer -- precisely because it would be too expensive to keep carefully
calibrated trade-legal scales exposed to the general public.

~~~
sfuller808
in nj, scales are inspected by the local Office of Weights and Measures. mis-
calibrated scales can result in a fine for the grocer.

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Jam-B
Like it, or not, this is the future of retail.

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jdkee
I wonder how well these will do with the grab-and-go gangs that are currently
working higher end retail in Chicago. Do they have reasonable security or
simply depend on cameras to identify perps?

~~~
halfjoking
The busier the Amazon Go store the more employees are on-site.

The one in the West Loop is right next to the trains and sees a lot of traffic
during rush hour. So they have 4+ employees just standing around watching
people. The ones at random locations in the loop aren't as busy - so only have
a couple employees in those stores.

Actually I think it's weird that Amazon has so many employees in Go stores.
You'd think they'd just need 1 person to stock things and call the police if
someone jumps over the gate without scanning their phone. Every time I see a
group of their employees standing around I want to ask "why haven't any of you
been replaced by robots yet?"

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neonate
[https://outline.com/wxesVr](https://outline.com/wxesVr)

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Bostonian
Raising the minimum wage to $15 and higher will hasten cashiers being replaced
by machines. In the unionized grocery store I patronize, where there was
recently a strike, they have reduced the numbers of cashiers and increase the
number of self-checkout stations.

~~~
vibrolax
In sympathy with labor, my wife refuses to use self checkout systems. She says
they're not paying her to do that job. When store managers or employees
attempt to direct her to the automat, she refuses and lets them know why.
They've told her she isn't the only one who prefers humans at the check out.

~~~
judge2020
I think it's fair to say they are paying her to do the bagging in the form of
"lower prices" as a result of paying for less employees, but I get the
concern.

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ilaksh
I wish they would open one in Playas de Tijuana.

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jiofih
As an European, Amazon Go seems like extreme over-engineering, with its
vision-based system and all. I can already quickly scan items as I put them in
my basket, either using a handheld scanner you pick up at the entrance, or my
own mobile phone. You can also do it all at once in the self-checkout station.
It already takes little to no time, and simply adding a very fast barcode
reader to the basket itself or RFID would completely eliminate any time spent
there. Payment takes five seconds with contactless / Apple Pay. Most small
supermarkets already have only one or two cashiers working at any time.

~~~
stoops
There is an immense difference between what you describe and the user
experience of Amazon Go. It was one of the most revolutionary experiences once
I got accustomed to it.

I used to regularly get lunch in < 30 seconds at Amazon Go. My record was 12
seconds for a soda and sandwhich. They added more processing time for that
calculation at some point. But I basically could get things as quick as my
feet could take me in and out.

It's really not the same experience. You should try it when you get the
chance.

Here are my most recent trip times according to the app (assume a 15s
overestimate to my real experience):

37s - Dr Pepper

32s - Dr Pepper

1m12s - Dr Pepper, sandwhich, cookies

33s - Dr Pepper

1m33s - Dr Pepper

36s - Dr Pepper

44s - Vitamin Water

46s - Sandwhich, cookies

30s - Vitamin Water

32s - Dr Pepper

31s - Dr Pepper

35s - Dr Pepper

I would estimate that most of these have a 15s overestimate.

This has not been a Dr Pepper advertisement.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I can and have bought a Coke Zero in that amount of time by using self-
checkouts with Apple Pay in Sweden (specifically the ones at Pressbyrån and
7-Eleven). Walk in, grab bottle, scan and press pay, Apple Pay Touch ID, a few
seconds for the transaction to approve, and I'm out of the store.

~~~
stoops
Can you do it 20 times in a row like I did?

~~~
maxerickson
Does it matter?

It's nice that you save a couple minutes, but I doubt it really has much
impact on your day.

Or was that all on Thursday morning?

~~~
stoops
Classic dismissal of disruptive technology because it seems marginally
beneficial.

I absolutely guarantee it will change your spending habits this coming decade.

I'm not sure if there's a way to understand until you experience it being
walking distance from your office.

~~~
maxerickson
I don't use the vending machine that is there, I drink water.

I suppose it is not so likely there will be a _store_ in walking distance the
next few years.

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paggle
I went to Amazon Go because it was cool but the food was absolutely inedible.

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markus_zhang
Just curious if we have any statistics about how much time is saved per
consumer?

TBH I don't feel particularly happy about programmers removing retail jobs.
Yeah for sure technology advances always remove some people from their jobs,
but there are consequences.

~~~
eyjafjallajokul
Disclaimer: I work for Amazon but not for Go.

Not sure about data on time saved, but I average 2-5 minutes on each trip to
the Go store in Seattle.

As for removing retail jobs, Amazon does hire a ton of people for every store
to restock, answer questions, prepare deli foods, etc. So the jobs are likely
moving to different parts of the store.

Also, I’m not sure what the official goals of Go are, but I always thought it
was to remove friction during checkout. Not to save costs on cashier jobs.

~~~
defertoreptar
> As for removing retail jobs, Amazon does hire a ton of people for every
> store to restock, answer questions, prepare deli foods, etc. So the jobs are
> likely moving to different parts of the store.

Is it fair to say that you are making the claim that there is no net decrease
in labor hours when compared to a similar store that does staff cashiers?

~~~
cameronbrown
Just a guess - but a more efficient shop will sell stuff faster and then need
more people to up-keep.

