
A brief update - rbinv
https://www.mattcutts.com/blog/heading-to-usds/
======
SwellJoe
The phrasing of this makes it sound like he wants to paint it as though he's
doing community service or something. But...Defense Digital Service? At the
Pentagon? That's not exactly curing cancer or solving poverty.

~~~
Matt_Cutts
At the risk of wading into a fraught discussion, here's an example from
yesterday: [http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-
View/Article/802828/cart...](http://www.defense.gov/News-Article-
View/Article/802828/carter-announces-hack-the-pentagon-program-results) . Bug
bounty programs have proven very effective in private industry (e.g. when
Chrome pays security researchers who find vulnerabilities). The Defense
Digital Service just completed one of the first bug bounty programs for the
federal government. This is my personal opinion, but if bug bounty programs
become more common in the government, that would mean that lots more people
would be protected from hacks or identity theft.

To give another example that's under the umbrella of the US Digital Service,
[https://www.vets.gov/playbook/](https://www.vets.gov/playbook/) is an attempt
to bring resources for veterans into a single website. Right now, veterans may
have to navigate 1000+ websites, 956 different 1-800 numbers, and just deal
with more hassle than they should.

I interviewed at the US Digital Service but ended up at the Defense Digital
Service because that's where I thought I could help the most. There's some
good info about the sort of projects that people at the USDS/DDS work on at
[https://www.usds.gov/work](https://www.usds.gov/work) if anyone is
interested. 18F at [https://18f.gsa.gov/](https://18f.gsa.gov/) is also doing
great work, with the extra benefit that people can work for the 18F remotely.
18F has also been a proponent for more open source in the government:
[https://fcw.com/articles/2016/03/25/noble-open-
code.aspx](https://fcw.com/articles/2016/03/25/noble-open-code.aspx)

~~~
hodgesrm
Hi Matt! Good on you for doing this. The US Govt needs more smart citizens
stepping up and getting involved instead of just criticizing.

And for the anti-military types out there, ask yourself if the world is a
better place if decent citizens _don 't_ get involved with the US military.

~~~
uola
There's already plenty of smart decent people in the military and even more at
defense companies. It's a structural, not a people, problem. What the US
military does (both offline and online) mostly has widespread support among
politicians and the US population. These policies are not a mistake to be
corrected or something that will go away, it's a difference in opinion. If you
don't support them you probably shouldn't be involved. There are many other
ways to help your country with e.g. digital security. The "anti-military
types" is just a cheap shot. Pretty much everyone I know who has been or are
involved in a military (or government) has reservations about it (including
myself).

------
f_allwein
Matt is one of the nicest, most ethical people I have worked with, so I have
no doubt his work in Washington will be for the benefit of society. Also, he's
an expert on fighting abuse, so should be able to make some interesting
contributions.

------
lifeisstillgood
Digital Government is one of the great challenges of the next decades, and I
am worried that we still see software as a "rockstar" can solve it profession.

Conways law means that changing software to meet our needs now means hanging
the whole organisation. And changing government is a whole order of challenge
greater than in private sector.

But I see daily the problems of scrum sprints forcing poor architectural
decisions that need strong coders to push back on - and while is suspect Matt
would be one of those pushing back, really the system of digitisation of
government should be more - sympathetic to the challenge.

I am amazed and impressed by the XDS approach (gov.uk is a leader in this) but
I remain under convinced and unable to express this coherently - I will sleep
on it

~~~
mmahemoff
I share your concern, but how else does radical change on this level happen
without a wave of rockstars (as seen with UK's GDS)? One or two isolated
rockstars, or even a team of a-bit-above-average engineers, have a negligible
impact when faced with a bureaucracy. Their efforts are hampered and their
results can easily be dismissed as noise.

Is a team of rockstars alone sufficient? No. It still needs the kind of
empathetic engineers who want genuine improvement and will work to permeate
their efforts through the organisation. Rockstars by definition are
outstanding technically, but their mindsets can vary widely. Rockstars of the
precocious, arrogant, variety aren't suited for this, but others (like Matt
Cutts imo) are.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
How Else is a very good question - and I fear that dropping in a "wave" of
anyone is just going to end up wits one wet beach - GDS is having
inspirational effect but as a private contractor who is making every effort to
break into (for want of better term "let me get paid for developing open
source solutions to the 2000 government needs - see
[http://www.oss4gov.org](http://www.oss4gov.org)) it is clear that they are
not breaking down every barrier - there is a lot to do.

I am not saying I know of a better way - but rock stars don't change
organisations. Meaningful change is really hard and conways law is a two way
sword. If you can't change the organisation good luck having the software
change it for you.

Here is a longer thought :

Let's look at UK schools and the department for education. The essential jobs
of the department are 1) school standards and inspection (ofsted) and 2)
paying the schools and so forth.

Fundamentally we don't need a whole department to funnel money from treasury
to headmasters.

There are many pieces of software that Matt Cutts could work on there, a whole
career. But we could remove the need for that department and hence that OSS
software by political action.

This is the point I think I am making. Software literacy is soooo vital to
making sure that organisations make the right choices in their software, and
software is now and will be soooo deep in all organisations (they effectively
become programmable corporations) that we need software "rock stars" at the
highest levels of government making the highest levels of architectural
decisions

But when we talk about architectural decisions at government we basically are
talking ministerial level policy making.

And that implies that companies are going to need to have their it
architecture decided by their internal political structures - which will have
to become more democratic

So - yeah still not making a good point. But when we want people to come in
and transform digital in government, they will quickly ask political
questions. And they need political answers. Even though the leverage and
driving power lies in what software can offer.

~~~
spangry
_"...software is now and will be soooo deep in all organisations (they
effectively become programmable corporations) that we need software "rock
stars" at the highest levels of government making the highest levels of
architectural decisions"_

This is the key issue. Having spent years working on 'IT in government', at
both the cabinet policy advisory level and at the IT coalface level, I've
formed the view that when it comes to IT policy, 99% of the policy outcome is
determined by implementation detail. I think this makes government IT policy
quite unique, and it's something policy people (like myself) can't wrap their
heads around.

Perfect example: the Australian 'Standard Business Reporting' programme
([http://www.sbr.gov.au/](http://www.sbr.gov.au/)). It's hard to fault the
policy position: open up APIs for reporting to government. But they fucked up
the technical implementation so badly that they are now 5 years in, $1bn in
the hole, and have around 1% voluntary take-up. The relevant senior decision
makers were completely IT illiterate and went with the "can't go wrong with
IBM" route. Consequently, any developer that values their sanity won't come
near it with a 10 foot barge pole.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
But what I am saying is that just as code is the design, code is the policy

The policy decisions were not "open an API" but also "use JSON" and "use fog
keys for signing" and "implement the VAT submissions first"

The fact those policy decisions were not made is the whole point we both seem
to be making

------
danso
Reminds me of when Craig Newmark did a stint with Veterans Affairs, becoming a
real evangelist for the agency and getting into the nitty gritty of office IT:

[http://craigconnects.org/2009/11/why-craigslist-founder-
join...](http://craigconnects.org/2009/11/why-craigslist-founder-joins-va-
innovation-search-panel.html)

[http://craigconnects.org/2013/04/veterans-disability-
claims-...](http://craigconnects.org/2013/04/veterans-disability-claims-
backlog-setting-the-record-straight.html)

------
tangled_zans
Can people rename this to something that makes sense? Seeing a post on the
front page saying "A brief update" is so vague. An update by whom? About what?
There's literally not enough information to gauge whether or not I should
pursue this further without clicking on it.

------
Yhippa
Anybody have experience working for the USDS? What was it like? I'm curious to
know if people in industry on the East Coast recognize the program.

------
dahdum
I'm surprised to see so much negativity in the thread. It's fantastic for
government to add more people like Cutts, especially in a division with
innovation as a goal. He brings excellent public communication skills, I'm
excited to see what he'll be working on and hope they'll report broadly.

------
rambos
Please help make changes in the most efficient way possible. I've seen it
before when these digital agencies filled with "innovators" come only to
reinvent the wheel; spending ridiculous amounts of tax payer dollars and man
hours to create things that could otherwise be brought in from the private
sector.

Good luck, do what's right with the tax payer dollars.

------
wnevets
Wow good for you for matt, hope it goes well!

------
bane
Absolutely awesome. Thanks for setting an example of civil service.

I'm in the D.C. area, feel free to drop me a line (email in my profile).

------
sidcool
Expected and got the negative comments here. He's taking paycut and making a
difference in Governance. Not Bill Gates level, but something at least. If
nothing, it's better than people making condescending armchair comments here.

~~~
barryaustin
It's a common part of human nature. Assigning bad moral character on the basis
of group identity, rather than on individual actions, is the essence of
tribalism and bigotry.

Sure, the DoD has an outsized impact on people's lives and a highly
controversial history including both major evil and major good.

It seems to me a positive thing that someone of good character and strong
capabilities would go to make things better, vs allowing bad actors to
accumulate and do what bad actors do.

~~~
uola
Why do think covert operations, black sites, secret courts and hidden budgets
exist? Or chain of command, court martials and censorship? It's not a
democratic organisation of individual actions.

It's easy to say that he's of "good character" trying to make things better,
but in reality he is lending his credibility to bad actors and he has little
power to make things better. Keith Alexander doesn't go to defcon in jeans and
a t-shirt to take input, but to sell a different image of the military.

If it's anything that is human nature it's to despite evidence to the contrary
justify how bad things are not your responsibility. NSA compromised google
users data and here is one of the most famous googlers acting head recruiter
for the military.

------
coldtea
> _For example I worked on software that helped soldiers_

Soldiers deployed in the other side of the world where they have no business
to be in the first place? Securing cheap oil resources and/or control of
strategic interests?

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Seriously, on Hacker News you're going to make a political comment that has
zero to do with anything I commented on? A DoD software contractor has no
control over congressional level politics. The reality is that they were there
/ still there so while you work to campaign for changing the reality are you
suggesting we should NOT make things better for our soldiers to stay safer?

Get off your high horse and make your political, off topic statements on
reddit instead.

~~~
Kristine1975
_> A DoD software contractor has no control over congressional level
politics._

Then just say no when the DoD asks you to work for them.

 _> are you suggesting we should NOT make things better for our soldiers to
stay safer?_

I certainly am. The safer "our" soldiers are the more people they can murder.

~~~
dominotw
we should've just Gaddafi enslave thousands of women in his harem \s. You
should read the book 'Gaddafi's Harem: The Story of a Young Woman and the
Abuses of Power in Libya' before going around spreading hate and supporting
cruel, inhuman dictators.

~~~
coldtea
Actually it shouldn't be your concern what he did in his own country.

Like it's not anyone's concern that say the US puts the largest number of its
citizens in jail (25% of the worlds inmates for a country with 4% of the
world's population) and of which the predominant number are black.

I mean it should concern people all over the world, and they should ask and
lend support and diplomatic pressure to change that, but they should in no way
interfere with internal politics, invade or attack the US for that. And that's
something that hurts far more people (millions) compared to "some thousand".

Besides, what have you accomplished now? A hell hole of a country, an ex-
country, with fractions fighting from several competitive sides, millions
flying and hundreds of thousands dead. Yay for getting rid of the dictator,
sure turned out well. And the place is a paradise now for the sex and slave
trade.

Not to mention the hypocrisy of it all. Those decisions to support the rebels
in official capacity wasn't because anybody really cared for the regime's
victims. After all they always did and continue to do great business and have
cordial relations with Saudi Arabia (how do local women fare there legally? Or
search about what happens to thousands of immigrant women coming to work there
as house servants etc.).

It pays to think about such events beyond what the mainstream media and the
official government announcements say. Read some books, and not just
celebrated books that maintain the official party line of one's government,
try to find the other side's story too. And historical books, for such
regions, to get perspective.

------
bhartzer
I seem to recall that he used to work for cia or? Can't remember exactly.

~~~
Baghard
He interned at the DoD when he was a college student. Maybe you are thinking
of the NSA? Though the NSA is part of DoD, I don't think it was ever confirmed
that Matt worked for the NSA.

------
angry-hacker
U.S needs the separation of state and corporation.

------
djrobstep
It's not only not curing cancer or solving poverty, it's killing people.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
While your former is true your latter is just horribly false. I worked in the
DoD space for many years and the overwhelming amount of work you're most
likely to do doesn't involve killing people even indirectly. More likely
you're working on systems to go keep our people safe.

For example I worked on software that helped soldiers look at patterns of IED
placements to hopefully help them figure out where others were. I wouldn't
consider what I worked on even indirectly supporting any type of killing but
helping out people stay safer.

~~~
waterphone
Ultimately, though, aren't you helping soldiers stay safer so they can
continue to kill others? I'm not saying that in a judgmental way, but that is
the reality of war and military-related work.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
This is incredibly tone deaf. I'm not sure why every thread about the DoD on
Hacker News always ends up with the most extreme comments that lead to: "even
if you're sending cards to the soldiers you're lifting their spirits to kill
more people therefore you should feel bad about yourself".

I get it. You hate war. Most people hate war, even the soldiers in our army
hate it. You want change? Vote and get outside and protest. Don't shit on a
DoD contractor while sitting there doing nothing.

Real change requires real effort.

~~~
geofft
I mean, I'm doing something. I have a job that doesn't involve working for the
DoD.

I understand the need for people to have jobs. I'm not unhappy about
individual soldiers, individual cops, individual TSA workers deciding that's
how they want to get employment. (I'm sort of unhappy at society-as-a-whole
for making the military such a good career decision for many people, but the
fact remains that it _is_ a good career decision, and I won't begrudge that.)
I'm not unhappy about you, because I have no idea what your job is or what
your life is like. But this article is about a person who had an extremely
good job at Google deciding that he wasn't doing enough for the world and that
he could make the world a better place by working for the DoD. He could have
stayed at Google; he could have even worked for the USDS for any of the non-
war functions of government, if he really wanted to. I think that's fair to
criticize.

~~~
robbiep
How Ayn Rand do you want to go? By the same logic working for a company that
pays taxes that supports the military is also helping things along. Best to
withdraw entirely the efforts of your labour from the machine?

~~~
merraksh
How taxes support the military is decided by lawmakers. We vote candidates
based on their programs. If a candidate promised to lower contributions to
defense, (s)he'd have my vote. You can have labour that doesn't feed the
military.

------
programmarchy
> "nice ... Pentagon ... interesting contributions"

Reminds me of the study:

> People with more agreeable, conscientious personalities are more likely to
> make harmful choices. [1]

[1] [https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-green-
mind/201406/a...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-green-
mind/201406/are-polite-people-more-violent-and-destructive)

~~~
dang
That's probably a fascinating study in general, but if you bring it up in the
context of one specific agreeable, conscientious person, it's a personal
attack, and those are not allowed here.

We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11927709](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11927709)
and marked it off-topic.

------
marco_salvatori
I generally advise nice, ethical people who want to benefit society to avoid
working for morally ambiguous organizations, as it can have a degradating
effect on their character. Still, some people find their principles in
unexpected places. And for someone who is an expert on fighting abuse, there
is an rare opportunity for outstanding service to their country and the
principles that made it great by applying such skills to the situation at
Guantanamo.

~~~
dang
We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11927709](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11927709)
and marked it off-topic.

------
legulere
Making a difference in the branch of government that is about destroying lives
in other countries.

~~~
nnutter
To be a little more fair it's also about defense.

~~~
qmr
The US is surrounded by two friendly nations and two big fuckoff oceans.

I question the need for 'defense'.

~~~
joshmanders
9/11, Boston, Orlando, San Bernardino, nah we don't need defense, nobody can
get to us.

~~~
wnoise
He didn't say we didn't need police.

~~~
joshmanders
Oh yeah, spray the fire extinguisher at the top of the fire instead of the
base, that'll surely put it out!

~~~
TeMPOraL
No, just stop "extinguishing" the fire by burning other peoples' houses down.

(It's as absurd as it sounds, and yet that's essentially the US strategy for
defending from terrorist attacks)

~~~
Tiksi
Granted, this is basically how wildfires are extinguished, though more
trees/brush than houses.

~~~
TeMPOraL
True, but the context was about household fires :).

------
ocdtrekkie
Note that Matt here claims he's taking a "leave from Google" to join the
Defense Digital Service at the Pentagon. This is in addition to the recent
announcement three months ago that Eric Schmidt would also be taking on a job
at the Pentagon... also while he still works for Google.

Google's partnership with our current administration has me increasingly
uncomfortable. Before this year, it was generally limited to former Googlers
in DC, or former government employees at Google, but this year, we have two
major, very high level Google employees working directly for the Department of
Defense.

~~~
Jerry2
Google and USG are joined at the hip. If you haven't seen this article, give
it a read and check out those charts:

[https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-
close...](https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-
relationship-with-the-obama-white-house-in-two-charts/)

~~~
madeofpalk
Completely off topic sidenote: even when completely muted, my MacBook Pro
(Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015) makes a sound when hovering over the names in
the first chart, and a different (deeper and quieter) sound when hovering over
the second one. The sound appears to come from below the F2/F3/2/3 keys. I
tried to record it, but its too quiet and there's too much background noise
here to hear it on the video.

Anyone have an idea what this would be? I presume it's the CPU/GPU underneath,
but I've never heard this before. Does this happen to anyone else?

~~~
mschuster91
With my Fall 2011 MBP, it's the wall wart that produces a wide variety of
sounds depending on the CPU load.

Desktop motherboards are known for high-frequency sounds in response to
varying load - the source are the low-voltage regulators for the different CPU
domains.

------
Tannic
Another turn in the swinging door between douchle and big gov

~~~
dang
We've banned this account for violating the HN guidelines. If you don't want
it to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com. We're happy to
unban people when there's reason to believe that they'll only post civil and
substantive comments (and particularly avoid personal attacks) in the future.

------
mtgx
A lot of back and forth between Google and the U.S. government lately. Even
Eric Schmidt joined the Pentagon. I think if Google would've kept the robot
division, it would've inevitably become a defense contractor (even though they
promised they wouldn't). Fortunately, it's going to sell it, but there's still
time to become that with DeepMind, etc.

~~~
ams6110
That's because Google is Skynet, of course.

------
ebbv
This is really cool Matt, but here's hoping your appointment ends before
January 2017 just in case the orangutan wins.

