
Ask HN: Has anyone hacked seduction? - submarine
So much of the literature I read about sex and becoming a confident sexual being (versus a dickless man-child) says that confidence comes from the &quot;inside&quot;, that it is self-developed and honed by some kind of process, that in my mind seems to be comparable to virgin birthing. But in reality, they say it&#x27;s all about instilling the belief in oneself at all costs, and believing that there is no reason to do otherwise.<p>On the other hand, my therapist tells me I&#x27;ll only really become confident when I achieve my goals. She says there isn&#x27;t much I can do in the way of feeling sexually confident until I get laid. All I can do is learn to feel better about who I am, eliminate the self-doubt, and that&#x27;s basically it.<p>I&#x27;m writing this because I&#x27;m at a stalemate. Approaching women hasn&#x27;t helped.Actually, my therapisttold me to stop talking to strange women in coffee shops because the constant failures are making me unhappy.<p>Not sure what to do here...<p>I&#x27;ve read the PUA-books, practiced, even went out alone a few times. I just can&#x27;t seem to hack this whole sex thing. Women don&#x27;t seem to get any spark from being around me. Is it looks? Am I boring?
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anigbrowl
Stop trying to 'hack' it - people you meet can tell if you're just trying to
get sex rather than having any interest in them personally. People are not
APIs. Someone trying to manipulate another person into sex is just as annoying
as someone trying to get money out of you on the street.

Just hang out with women on the basis of them being _people_ and when you meet
someone interesting express your feelings simply and spontaneously eg 'I like
you.' don't look for anything in particular in return. If the person it
attracted to you then matters will take care of themselves.

Forget about the PUA thing. If you're that desperate to get laid, then just
hire a hooker. But if you want to have any kind of relationship, then there's
no point in trying to force it. The confidence you're talking about above is
not confidence that you can get laid at the drop of a hat, but the confidence
to go about and do things without obsessing over the question of whether
you're going to get laid on any given night.

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pedalpete
I think you may have come to the wrong forum but I'll try to give you a hand
anyway.

To answer your question about "Has anyone hacked seduction?", I'd suggest that
the PUA authors you've read would suggest that they have, but it doesn't seem
to be working for you. I suspect that much of that stuff is just tricks and
games to try and get you laid, and the problem (I suspect) is that any smart-
enough woman would (hopefully) see right thought it.

From what you've written, I'd suggest that it isn't your looks, or that you
are boring. I'd suggest that it is exactly as you suggest yourself, you're not
confident.

I think your therapist is wrong about becoming confident when you reach your
goals (somebody please help me out here). Look around, see how many over-
confident douche-bags have no goals, or haven't done anything meaningful, yet
that doesn't stop them from being confident, does it?

I think what you're therapist is trying to say isn't that you won't feel
sexually confident until you get laid, but rather you need to be comfortable
with who you are, and then you'll find the confidence in being you. It may be
a subtle difference, but confidence doesn't come from ruling the world, it
comes from accepting and appreciating who you are.

I like to think of a Buddhist Monk. Do they seem confident to you? What do you
think gives them that confidence?

~~~
submarine
How can you tell I lack confidence? Everytime I think I'm being stoic in my
writing, my lack of self esteem somehow shines through.

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anigbrowl
The fact that you're asking the question in the first place, and saying things
like 'am I boring' and so on.

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mxxx
lol, dead giveaway.

~~~
submarine
lol indeed my friend.

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lutusp
> On the other hand, my therapist tells me ...

Ah, now I understand. You had self-esteem issues arising from allowing
yourself to be defined by random women's tastes, and you now have the
additional burden of allowing yourself to be defined by the random tastes of a
therapist.

Let me tell you something. You will become self-confident when you decide to
define yourself -- and not before.

You're going through something that many, many people have gone through --
trying to secure validation from other people. One day you will wake up and
realize that securing validation from others is like securing happiness by
shopping.

By a process of natural selection, nature has made you the way you are. There
has never been anyone like you, and there never will be again. Your purpose is
to live your life _as yourself_ , not as some imaginary person defined by
others.

Evolution works. Natural selection works -- but only if people don't all try
to be copies of the same "ideal" person.

> I just can't seem to hack this whole sex thing.

What's to hack? The "whole sex thing" gives too much power to other people.
Marketers and commercial interests want you to believe they can sell you
success, and therapists are in the same line of work. It's just a big scam --
the trick is to figure that out before you die of old age, still trying to
catch the brass ring.

And guess what? If you stop trying so hard, if you come to realize the "whole
sex thing" is completely ridiculous and stop giving it any energy, women will
suddenly and inexplicably flock to you like moths to a candle.

I know this from personal experience.

~~~
submarine
I phrased everything wrong. I don't want to "hack" anything important in life.
On the contrary, I want to set things properly in my life. I want sustainable
growth. So pardon me for using the term. It wasn't fitting.

I've met people who've backwards rationalized not having success with women,
and the way you can tell that I'm low on self-confidence, I can tell they're
full of shit. But I don't think you are, I think you have a point, as do most
people posting comments here.Also, because I have seen this "figure" of what a
life without this burning desire for sexual validation is like, and it seems
legitimately healthy. I've heard of the "cherry on top" expression, and it
seems so ideal for love and sex to be the extra bonus that we all welcome and
cherish. Unfortunately, I see myself going full-circle with this philosophy
and winding up anxious and unhappy. How do I NOT place importance on sex and
love? It's essentially what I think of when I wake up, everytime I see a
beautiful woman, and at night as I fall asleep. I'm not a romantic, but the
idea of it all is just so awesome.

edit: i think i'm getting it.

~~~
lutusp
> How do I NOT place importance on sex and love?

Yep, I see where you're coming from. And if it weren't for that outlook,
chances are the entire human race would die out in a matter of centuries,
because people would say, "Jesus, what's the point of this? Who actually
enjoys all this forehead-beating?" But hardly anyone does that. They get bred
out of the population. By natural selection.

~~~
submarine
I'm not sure what this all boils down to. What does this mean for how I
interact in public?

If I still decide to talk to the beautiful women I encounter, that means I'm
placing importance on sex, right? Because otherwise, I'd be staring at my work
and not really giving a hoot. Or are we saying there's a fine line between
pursuing women and obsessing over the idea of love and sex as a determinant
factor of one's self-esteem?

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il
I've found that the key to success in this is context and setting.

Rather than going somewhere because there are women there, go somewhere you
would like to go regardless and don't worry about approaching anyone, just
relax and have a good time. Everything is dependent on mindset and setting.
You, the same exact person might be anxious and uncomfortable in a loud club,
and at the same time you might be the most confident guy in the room at a
cocktail party after a business conference...or vice versa. So go to places
that play to your strengths.

i.e coffee shops are a terrible place to meet people. There's absolutely zero
sexual energy and everyone there is just trying to get some work done.

If you're in the bay area, email me(email in my profile) and I'll show you
exactly what I mean.

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antonwinter
from personal experience.

if you want to pick up girls, go work behind a bar, preferably a cocktail bar.
You will learn a lifetime of how to flirt and get girls. If you already have a
job, just do it saturday night. don't worry how much you get paid, just do a
good job and smile a lot, you will meet huge numbers of girls and some will
flirt back.

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Kudzu_Bob
All your answers are here:

[http://heartiste.wordpress.com/](http://heartiste.wordpress.com/)

