
Ask HN: Why are there so many Python freelancers looking for work? - wisty
I had a look at the ask HN Freelancers page, and was stunned by the number of Python programmers looking for work. Any ideas why?
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kls
Python is a victim of the language popularity churn, like most other things in
life. Languages have trends, there are ones that are currently the hottest
ones that are starting to wain and others that are out of vogue. Take for
example Java, at one time Java was the language to be seen developing in. Java
developers where the rock stars, Java on top actually lasted for a long time,
when compared to other languages but it's sun has set now, it is now in the
none of the hip kids are doing it camp. Now onto Python, it was one of the
first crop of languages to try to supplant Java from the cool kid spot. That
crop had limited success and the only place that python saw wide adoption was
coupled with Dijango for web. The thing is PHP and Drupal also achieved
success in this era which split the, we are the new cool kid market. A second
crop of new languages came up this time Ruby, Scala et. al. They where more
focused on the problem domain they targeted and incorporated newer development
constructs, they became the new cool kids. Now Python had become the OK kid
but it's shine had worn off, Then came along the shift from server to clients
for the UI and everyone started building out rich UI's with Javascript, then
Javascript became the darling and server side JavaScript run-times where
built, Java was now decidedly uncool and Python is now out of mind and Ruby's
shine has worn off. In the end with Python it did not achieve the success of
Java or COBAL to provide for lots of jobs even when it is no longer the cool
kid and the unfortunate reality of languages that burn their star quick is
that the cool kids move on, so there are very few stuck in the middle. Ruby
may have enough to support them as their popularity wains, PHP definitely
will, Python has some dedicated fans and the market may reach an equilibrium
but as for now, you are seeing the product of a lot of developers trained in
the last gen, while the projects have moved on to the next trend.

~~~
wladimir
Do you have solid numbers that confirm your claim that Python is becoming less
popular?

This is a honest question, in my environment I see Python being adopted in
various places now that is maturing.

BTW: it hasn't been a "new and hip" language for quite some time, version 1.0
was released in 1991 and 2.0 was released in 2000. The pure novelty-seekers
left a long time ago.

~~~
kls
In my opinion the best numbers come from TIOBE's index
<http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/Python.html> but as you will
see languages have large shifts in their popularity. Currently in 2011, Python
has been shedding popularity at a fast clip, but it has done so before so it
is not reliable to use it in support of the argument that Python is loosing
popularity as the overall trend has been upward. The thing I would caution is
that the original post was asking why so many job seekers with python where
looking and my summation was that due to language popularity NEW development
house may not be adoption Python. In reference to you seeing Python in your
environment I would assume it is because you already have Python in your
environment so language selection has been made and many times there is
inertia within the environment that makes language replacement a bad value
proposition. I fear I poorly worded my original post when I was basically
trying to say that languages go through a life-cycle of popularity and you may
be seeing the result of NEW development houses opting for what is popularity
because they don't have language based technical debt to consider. As well
over the lifetime of a language it will shed adopters for other more popular
languages. My summation was in no way intended as a critique of Python it
would have been they same answer had it been Java or Perl. I was just trying
to explain the life-cycle of language popularity. Which will always be an
imperfect summation due to trends and resurgence of trends.

~~~
wladimir
_In reference to you seeing Python in your environment I would assume it is
because you already have Python in your environment_

At one of the companies, they were using only C before (and some PHP/Java).
Python was chosen for its merits (large support library, user-friendly
language, lot of developers know it, relatively light embeddable VM), not
because it was already entrenched in the organization.

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mechanical_fish
Sample bias.

Perhaps lots of HN readers happen to like working in Python.

Perhaps Python consultants figure that HN is a relatively promising place to
seek clients.

Perhaps Python's community has fewer alternative venues in which to advertise.

Perhaps it's just nucleation: The first two Python posts attracted other
Python posts.

All guesses of course, no data.

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danohuiginn
My experience (i.e. anecdote) is that python programmers are more likely to
work as consultants/freelancers, rather than in permanent jobs.

C developers, by contrast, are more likely to stay at the same company for 5
or 10 years.

Where I am (London), the demand for python skills is immense, even by tech-job
standards. It's possible that there is a falling-off of demand elsewhere, of
course.

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sidmitra
Python is fairly popular among startups, and hence supply follows demand.

~~~
dsmithn
Well the question is that the supply seems to be preceding demand. Tons of
python freelancers seeking work on the thread - no one is seeking python
freelancers.

~~~
sidmitra
I have a post on that thread, seeking work. But that doesn't mean i don't have
work. I run a consulting firm that handles a dozen python projects at any
given time and i definitely get more than a dozen offers each week. But yeah
quite a lot of them are, "game changing", 'equity' types.

I guess like most freelancers, the people on there might already have a steady
stream of work, and are just marketing themselves since python is the in-thing
right now?

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gilesc
It's largely been supplanted by Ruby?

