
Soylent: An Offbeat Food Idea Investors Are Taking Seriously - mrleinad
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/10/23/240278034/soylent-an-offbeat-food-idea-investors-are-taking-seriously
======
netcan
I'm not sure if there's something I'm missing about soylent, but it seems to
me like the most remarkable thing in the soylent story is that the company is
a product of the tech startup culture.

The product itself fits (in my mind) in the nutritional supplements / meal
replacements category and wouldn't have ordinarily gotten the attention of HN
and startup investors.*

I wonder if this is an anomaly or first blood. Maybe startup culture is
spreading to other areas. Startups haven't themselves been necessarily
creators of technology (tricky to define). Many are just something that is
enabled by mass adoption of some new technology or the cultural shifts that
came with it (eg cloud based enterprise software). The whole world seems to be
changing fairly rapidly now. That means there might be room for startup-
culture to infiltrate even more areas. Tech savy, risk tolerant, big vision,
funded, etc.

*I've got nothing to say about the product itself really. I like eating, personally.

~~~
ihsw
I think this could successfully be marketed to developing countries as a food
ration/field ration -- the cost per KG is quite high but it's far superior to
other rations.

Imagine if naval explorers of yore had Soylent instead of cured/canned meats.

Canadian military field ration:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Meal_Pack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Meal_Pack)

American military field ration: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-
Eat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat)

~~~
Mikeb85
While I haven't been in the military, I do alot of backpacking. IMPs are quite
tasty, and a welcome meal. Can't say I'd rather have a meal replacement shake
after being in the wild for a week...

------
hmsimha
Given the abundance of links about Soylent that get posted to HN, I can't
believe this point hasn't been brought up yet:

Calcium.

Studies have shown it blocks the absorption of Iron and Zinc. At least one
even indicates that the combination of all three taken together can be quite
detrimental[1]

I'm not a nutritionist, and I'm not even arguing against the possibility that
a Soylent diet may be much healthier than the average American diet. I don't
have a wealth of other examples where nutrients being taken together at the
same time could be less than ideal.

But I do believe that these are questions that the people involved in Soylent
should have concerned themselves with before even entertaining the idea of an
all-purpose one-size-fits-all meal replacement. I haven't seen this addressed,
and it boggles my mind that so many seemingly intelligent people are eager to
_pay for_ the opportunity to be guinea pigs of a meal replacement powder that
could very well be harmful in the long run.

[1]
([http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/20486142?uid=3739960&u...](http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/20486142?uid=3739960&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102863847183))

~~~
RunningDroid
They are aware that Calcium blocks the absorption of Iron[1], and that it
blocks absorption of manganese, magnesium, zinc, fluoride, and phosphorus.[2]
The people making Soylent are testing the mix on themselves first, and having
blood tests done regularly to make sure they aren't harming themselves in the
long run.

[1] [http://discourse.soylent.me/t/interaction-of-for-instance-
ir...](http://discourse.soylent.me/t/interaction-of-for-instance-iron-calcium-
official-response/9461)

[2] [http://discourse.soylent.me/t/micronutrients-blocking-
each-o...](http://discourse.soylent.me/t/micronutrients-blocking-each-others-
absorption/491)

~~~
hmsimha
I'm glad to see I'm not the first person to consider the interaction, but
(correct me if I'm wrong) none of the people addressing this are actually
involved with the development of Soylent, right?

And yes, I realize there are people getting blood tests. The human body can be
surprisingly resilient, and whether or not the deficiency is in iron or
something else, it may take a long time to present. My main objection is to
them marketing this essentially as a beta release of an end-user product
already.

If the purpose behind all the testing were _to explore_ whether a meal
replacement like Soylent might be a viable method of maintaining peak human
nutrition, with years of planned research before jumping to conclusions, I
would be all for it. But it seems as if they've already presumed that an all-
in-one formula _CAN_ be engineered to provide for a healthy diet, and are
focusing exclusively on arriving at the optimal balance of nutrients to
deliver.

~~~
drifting
I think the person who is making soylent has been testing it for 6 years.
There have been bumps along the way (ie: deficient on nutrients), but that is
why it is still essentially in alpha/beta. They aren't saying it is perfect
yet and so I don't see the reason to assume so

------
fein
My greatest concern over the approach Soylent is taking is the "one size fits
all" mentality.

If the company would put forth an application for biometrics/ some sort of
personalized formula calculation, I would feel better about this.

People have different biochemistry, allergies, metabolisms, and nutrient
deficiencies. Hell, even different climates and geography cause changes in the
way the human body works. It just seems like a huge issue was overlooked in
not taking into consideration these variables.

I have a friend whose SO and himself are working on a similar project, however
she is a nutritionist and knows the pitfalls. They are trying to take into
account the person to person variability and make personalized formulas based
on individual needs. I would be much happier with this approach.

~~~
pa5tabear
It's not going to be one size fits all. Right now it might just be a single
product (and they're struggling to even get that together at large volume),
but Rob's blog posts talk about customization as a key advantage of Soylent.
Customization will surely come if they're able to get the ball rolling.

------
andzt
One of the ideas I want to find out by trying Soylent is: What happens when
hunger is no longer an issue? Will I still crave juicy burgers and fries
everday at 12pm? Will I really be satisfied by only eating small bites if I'm
already full off Soylent? I definitely see myself using this on days where I'm
just too busy to run out for lunch, early morning breakfasts, or as good
healthy travel food. Not sure I'll replace my whole diet.

What a cool experiment though...

~~~
seg
I reckon you'd be dreaming about food in the Homer Simpson style for a while,
until you get utterly accustomed to the new diet. I call that the brainwashing
of the stomach. (because stomach-washing sound weird)

------
MrDosu
People that cannot produce a nutritous tasty meal for under 3 dollars within a
few minutes need to take a cooking class, not get fed brown powder.

~~~
6d0debc071
> People that cannot produce a nutritous tasty meal for under 3 dollars within
> a few minutes

-shrug- Assuming the brown powder thing works out, why would I want to? It's not like I've ever got much pleasure from eating.

~~~
scrabble
If this is the case, why haven't you replaced the food you eat with currently
available meal replacement shakes?

~~~
6d0debc071
Didn't realise they existed until quite recently, variety of prices and use
cases - research still ongoing as to what would actually work, and not eat
into my purse too much, if taken as a significant part of the diet.

A lot of them seem to be a few hundred k-calories a serving, and even if you
had three a day that's still not going to push you up to anywhere near the
2000 or so you need. I'm not sure what the effects of taking multiples of your
recommended vitamin intakes for them would be either, since a fair few of them
claim to provide 100% of your RDA per serving.

Basically, I don't know enough yet. (Google is fairly unhelpful, throwing out
shakes to lose weight rather than as realistic meal substitutes.) But it's an
area I'm looking into.

------
confluence
The key thing that Soylent is going after is Ensure/Fortsip/Sustagen's
margins. Full meal replacements are cost competitive with normal food at $5 a
day. Medical suppliers currently charge a steep markup of $14 a day for their
full meal replacements. At this price it is uneconomical for most people to
adopt full meal replacements as a large part of their diets.

These margins must be destroyed. Soylent, and its competitors, are out to
destroy them.

Full meal replacements will only hit critical mass if they cost less than the
$7 a day an average American already spends on normal food, and if they are
easier to prepare, eat and store. They need to taste nicer too.

The first part is the hardest bit. $6 a day is the current mean cost of full
meal replacement production in small batch sizes. Large batch sizes and huge
volumes can probably half this cost through economies of scale. Once we have
at volume, non-regulated full meal replacements that cost $3 a day, with say a
20-50% gross margin, I expect the entire market to explode.

First one to market wins.

~~~
jpau
Speaking as an Australian, I'm surprised that the average American spends as
little as $7 per day on food. Do you know who compiled this statistic, and
what a 'typical' $7 day's diet might look like?

~~~
fennecfoxen
I don't know who compiled that statistic, but I can show you the USDA
statistics!

* [http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/usdafoodcost-home.htm](http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/usdafoodcost-home.htm)

* [http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodPlansCostofFood.htm](http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodPlansCostofFood.htm)

~~~
confluence
Concurs with my calculations.

------
herge
I imagine the poor sod who invented the shower just got blank stares for the
first 5 years from people who wondered 'why would I ever give up taking
baths?'.

~~~
wdewind
Soylent hasn't really invented anything new. Meal replacement shakes have
existed for years. It's unclear how Soylent is different.

------
scrabble
I think this idea will appeal to people who can't eat -- such as those with
cancer -- as an alternative to products like Boost and Ensure.

I can't see myself or any of the people I know replacing food with a drink,
but I definitely see room in the meal replacement market.

Best of luck to Soylent.

~~~
DanBC
> as an alternative to products like Boost and Ensure.

You specifically mention people with medical needs: What does Soylent do that
isn't done by existing meal replacements? What extras does Soylent bring? Or
is it just nice to see more products in that segment?

I guess with the investment Soylent could employ qualified dietitians or
nutritionists to write information for medical professionals, and to answer
questions from medical professionals.

~~~
Cthulhu_
I don't know Boost / Ensure, but given how they seem to be (based on the
parent) sold as a medical food replacement, I can imagine they're rather
expensive.

I wouldn't call Soylent cheap, though - $65 a week for one person is quite a
lot if you're on a tight budget, and it doesn't scale to family-size who can
be cheaper off by buying and cooking food in bulk. Wouldn't feed my kids slop
like this either tbh (and I'm pretty sure that they would rebel (if I had them
and tried to feed them this for any duration of time)).

~~~
IanCal
Tight budget? That's more than my grocery budget, and that includes everything
like toothbrushes and binbags too. And I'm not being stingy with it, that
includes wine and beer and fresh coffee delivered every week.

One person will pay almost $3400 per year for this. That to me is just insane,
unless you really _need_ this.

------
Mikeb85
This is unfortunate. Food can be a cultural experience, it brings people
together, and tasty, well-prepared food is one of life's great pleasures.
Reducing food to merely taking care of physical needs (presumably so we can
work more hours) is a shame...

Edit - missed some parts of the article - seems it's more in the quick meal-
replacement shake category, not to outright replace easting. Either way, I'll
take real food.

~~~
bluedino
You don't have to only consume Soylent. You could do it 2 meals a day and
still enjoy dinner with friends.

