
Announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish them (2009) - mhb
https://sivers.org/zipit
======
mbarronj
I call them "Secret Plans". You gotta save up the emotional energy and reward.
On so many projects, you get the same neuro-chemical reward by talking about
your project plans and how cool the result will be, as you do by making
progress. By holding out, and only allowing progress itself to be a reward,
and not just the talking, I usually get much further. The project may still
die, but then I have something in my hands usually, and that's more rewarding
than a bunch of people who think I only talk about things and never start/do
any of them. . .

~~~
t34543
This is why I refuse to do stand ups

~~~
adenverd
Engineering manager here. I think a lot of people miss the point of standup,
or abuse it to somehow micromanage engineers.

Standup is for the team, not the manager or PM. It serves multiple functions,
but the most important is the last bit: "are you blocked by something?". Most
of the time, someone else on the team knows how to unblock you. Other times,
your manager is better positioned to get you what you need than you are. Most
of us don't care when you work, or how much progress you made today, or
whatever. Our job is to keep the ball rolling, not manage your time.

The status update portion exists so that your manager doesn't randomize you in
the middle of the day asking about that thing you're working on. Not because
s/he thinks you're slacking, but because your work ties into a bunch of other
work that's going on, and it's the manager's job to coordinate. While _you_
may be more effective working as an information silo, your team and org are
hindered by it.

~~~
machinelearning
IME standups are not even effective in unblocking most people.

Why would someone want to admit they're blocked by something in front of
everyone? Someone else will inevitably proclaim that they have the solution,
however simple it may be, and make the asker look stupid while elevating
themselves.

Most people know who to ask to be unblocked or can ask their manager.

1:1s are the time to sync with regards to status on projects not in the middle
of the day.

Weekly roundtable meetings are the time to sync up with the rest of the team
and learn what everyone is working on.

The only purpose of standups is to slavedrive people into "productivity",
which inevitably ends up with them thinking of how to hyperbolize whatever
they're working on minutes before standup begins. Its useless.

~~~
vvanders
I really hope you aren't using 1:1s as status meetings, that's the worst
possible use of your time[1].

As a developer I've found stand-ups to be useful to know what's going on
within the team and if feature A with collide with feature B.

[1] [https://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-update-the-vent-
and-t...](https://randsinrepose.com/archives/the-update-the-vent-and-the-
disaster/)

~~~
machinelearning
I disagree with your reading of the article. It does not say that providing
status updates in 1:1s are the "worst possible use of time" anywhere.

Quoted from the article: "The point of this discussion is not to solve my
Disaster, the point is that we’re going to have a conversation where one of us
is going to learn something more than just project status."

Status updates are a conducive part of 1:1s and its the perfect time to get
unblocked as the quote above duly points out.

As for learning about whether "feature A will collide with feature B",
weekly/biweekly roundtables are the perfect time to learn about such things.
The weekly cadence allows people to find time to collaborate on the possible
overlap.

Lastly, I don't think the article is even that good. It seems to make up for
its lack of interesting-ness by feigning conviction and edginess. The central
point of the article is highly unusual in that it lauds novelty over
pragmatism.

A 1:1 should be an environment where all of what the article talks about CAN
take place. But that doesn't mean it SHOULD during every meeting.

------
nomilk
Reminds me of a quote from Sara Blakely:

“I was very careful right away, it was a gut instinct that I had, to keep it
to myself because I believe ideas are most vulnerable in their infancy, and
it’s instinct to turn to your right or left in that moment and tell a friend,
or tell your husband, and the moment you do that ego is invited into the mix,
and then you end up spending all your time defending it, explaining it, and
not pursuing it”

How I Built This podcast (9m20s)

~~~
wccrawford
I have definitely had my battles with people who want to poke holes in my
plans, rather than support me. They _think_ they're helping me, but they
aren't. They're just killing my enthusiasm.

If I'd been left to try, I'd have worked hard at it, had an experienced,
learned some things, and maybe even accomplished it. Instead, they did their
best to stop me.

I now snap at people who do this to me. I no longer let them throw problem
after problem at me, and instead shut them down before they can destroy my
dream.

I accomplish a great many of the things I try, and I get exercise and
knowledge from the failures.

~~~
svantana
That's too bad. I invite criticism of my projects, because I want to make sure
I'm not fooling myself. Other people's perspective can shine new light on a
problem and force you to reconsider the idea, hopefully leading to improved
design.

~~~
darkmighty
It's very delicate because from personal experience most projects are likely
to fail, and most projects start way over ambitious (almost a natural bias).
What takes lots of experience to learn is also that _that 's not necessarily a
problem_. It's ok to fail sometimes, and it's ok to be overambitious at the
beginning and scale back to achievability, most of the time.

Initial ambitions largely set an upper bound on whole project possibilities --
you generally want upper bounds set pretty high. All projects have unknown
unknowns that will reveal themselves, and modeling this kind of meta-knowledge
is difficult and perhaps not worth the effort.

So to offer a general counterpoint, it may be a valuable skill to listen to
constructive advice including ones poking holes in your ideas. The key is to
persevere in the face of problems, as long as they're not obviously
intransposable (tip: don't go against laws of physics, e.g. thermodynamics or
newton's laws). If those hurdles would come up sometime, it might be better to
devote more time early on to overcome them.

------
mindgam3
This very much depends on how motivated you are by external validation. For
some people, the fear of losing social capital by not following through on a
public commitment is motivating enough to accomplish stretch goals.

Source: used this technique to overcome my own procrastination trying to
launch my first app as a solo founder. It worked, and I went on to raised a
million VC to see if I could scale up the vision of a social goals app.

The downside of relying on external validation, as I learned the hard way, is
when your self improvement startup goes down in flames, you _really_ feel like
a fuckup.

~~~
rubbingalcohol
I announce my projects so people can tell me how stupid I am and it makes me
more determined to succeed and show them how they are actually the ones who
are stupid. I guess I'm petty like that.

~~~
mindgam3
I feel that. One could argue that _all_ ambitious entrepreneur types are
motivated at least partly by a burning desire to prove that the other guy or
“the system” is in fact the asshole.

~~~
fhbdukfrh
I don't agree. True ambition is very self centered, almost egotistic. The
detractors never have as much invested as you and are largely irrelevant. You
don't do it because they say you can't, you do it because they don't even
exist.

------
GCA10
This article treats all types of announcements as being equal. Not so!

A hazy announcement like "I'll be doing more to fight climate change" may
indeed be empty virtue signaling that leads to nothing.

But what about a more precise announcement like: "I'll be writing a book on
Topic X, which I plan to publish 15 months from now, and I'll be completing
one chapter on the 25th of every month until then"? Now we've got intermediate
deadlines, and deliverables, and at least the first stirrings of a coherent
plan.

Announcements can work quite well, as long as you're willing to commit with
enough clarity that your friends and rivals will keep you honest.

~~~
munificent
_> "I'll be writing a book on Topic X, which I plan to publish 15 months from
now, and I'll be completing one chapter on the 25th of every month until
then"? _

I did something similar when I began my first book. It accomplished nothing. I
ended up stalling for several years.

What helped was a _private_ commitment to myself to work on the book every
day. It's definitely important to have a plan, but that's orthogonal to
_sharing_ a plan.

 _> your friends and rivals will keep you honest._

This depends on your friends, but I think at least in the US, most friendships
are based on uncritical support. They aren't likely to cause friction by
calling you on things you previously committed to doing unless that commitment
actually affects them personally.

Maybe _that 's_ the way to use your social network to keep you honest. Make a
commitment like: "If I finish this project by date X, I will contribute $YYYY
to your favorite charity." Now your friend has some skin in the game.

~~~
LanceH
Not the least reason is that you've constrained yourself to Topic X due to
your own announcement.

------
btbuildem
I call this "letting all the steam go to the whistle instead of the wheels"

------
jniedrauer
I sometimes wonder if a similar mechanism might be at play when you imagine
accomplishing your goal in a Walter Mitty sort of way.

There are many projects which I can envision completing, and which I know I
have the technical skills for. But I gain a certain amount of satisfaction
just from picturing the completed work, and in the end I don't actually put in
the effort to make it reality.

~~~
jmatthews
I suffer from the same affliction. Daydreaming forward often reveals
additional functionalities and synergies and implications, so it even "feels"
like progress, but I've learned the hard way that skipping to the last page of
the book is counter-productive.

------
WhompingWindows
I find this has cut both ways in my life. In piano, it was always my goal to
play Chopin Ballade No 1. After ~5 years of playing, I heard it and KNEW I
wanted to learn it. It was only around ~15 years in, when I got the gumption
and a teacher who didn't put the idea down, I signed up for a concert to play
it, and I was FORCED to learn it. At that point, announcing to friends/family
enhanced my practice, because I knew it'd occur on X date and I knew the
beastly passages would require dozens of hours of repetition each.

On the other hand, the number of pieces I have stated my intention to learn,
and never done so, is far greater than the number of pieces I actually know. I
think it's just so easy to say "I love this piece, I'm going to learn it."
Well, that took 5 seconds to say, but it will take 100 hours to learn the
piece.

So, for me, it comes down to how truly/deeply motivated I am to begin with. If
it's something I truly want, announcing makes no difference. If it's something
I'm lukewarm on, I'm probably likely to announce something impulsively and
commit myself to something I didn't think through.

------
dreeves
This is (mostly) wrong. Sivers himself seems to have regretted how his talk
was interpreted and posted this semi-retraction:
[https://sivers.org/zipit2](https://sivers.org/zipit2)

But identity-based goal or not, the conclusion that you make yourself less
likely to achieve a goal by telling people about it defies common sense. I
mean, here's the peer-reviewed science saying my common sense is wrong --
[http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Se...](http://www.psych.nyu.edu/gollwitzer/09_Gollwitzer_Sheeran_Seifert_Michalski_When_Intentions_.pdf)
\-- but this is a psychology paper from 2009 so I'm willing to bet real money
on common sense, despite seeing no obvious flaw with the paper.

~~~
v64
Not generalizing, but for me personally, I'll often tell people about my plans
as a way to hold myself to them. If I keep it to myself, it's easy for me to
talk myself out of it, but once it's out there to other people and I know
they're going to ask me for followup, I can commit.

~~~
kyllo
I always think this way, but once I make a commitment, now I basically have a
deadline, which for me, causes the procrastination impulse to kick in, and it
takes effort to fight it.

I think that telling someone I'm going to do something makes me want to do it
a little bit less because now I'm doing it for them, not for myself.

~~~
v64
Yeah, I think it's definitely something that will vary by personality. I'm
somewhat of a people pleaser so the external motivation works well for me.

------
drakonka
I watched a TED talk about this years ago and recognized myself and my habits.
I've since stopped announcing plans until I have a certain amount of concrete
progress. Sometimes I still misjudge, and lose motivation. For me this applies
for both small and big things.

Eg say I make plans to go to the gym tomorrow. If I tell someone I'm going to
go to the gym, I am less likely to actually do it. If I keep my mouth shut
I'll probably follow through. I currently have an idea of something I'd like
to do. It will take a lot of physical and emotional work. I've tried to make
plans before and discussed them with some friends, and always after the
discussions it never ends up happening. This time I'm not telling anyone until
the plan is actually in motion.

~~~
taeric
I'm interested in seeing that talk, if you can remember who it was. Or have a
link.

I had thought the opposite was true. Announcing was supposed to be like
committing. Curious if it just became a form of virtue signaling.

~~~
agota
I'm not the person you replied to, but...

Could it be Derek Sivers' TED Talk "Keep your goals to yourself"?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHopJHSlVo4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHopJHSlVo4)

~~~
milohax
I haven't watched this (I'm on a bus, bandwidth concerns) but the title just
made me think: "yes, keep your goals to myself. In a diary. That way I won't
be demotivated by premature announcement, yet I'll be bursting to have
something to show when I make progress"

Promissing to ones self, for me at least, is a motivator because I trust
myself more, and the trust is reinforced as I complete goals. But announcing
"I'm doing this thing" either causes anxiety, or demotivates nectar is already
our there, as the article describes.

------
JohnFen
I'm exactly opposite of that. If I announce plans, that adds an additional
cost (embarrassment) to failing to accomplish them, which makes it less likely
that I'll procrastinate or abandon the effort.

~~~
xwdv
This only works if people are excited for what you are making.

I once worked on an ambitious game for months, and then decided to make an
announcement about what I was building. The reaction from most people was meh.
I stopped working on it about a month later and all remaining copies of it
have since been deleted by now. Never released.

~~~
JohnFen
> This only works if people are excited for what you are making.

I suppose I should have been more specific. I'm not talking about a public
announcement, I'm talking about announcing it to my personal friends and
colleagues. Whether or not they are excited by the project itself isn't really
a factor -- they'll still want to know how the project is going.

I tend not to make any public announcements until at least beta.

------
mrcoder111
I really hate this article. Pretty much everything I've ever accomplished in
my life is because I speak it into existence and hold myself accountable. But
then again, if you're the type of person who makes things happen, you don't
rely on crappy psychology studies to tell you how to live your life.

~~~
wccrawford
I've seen a lot of these "successful people do this thing!" stories, but after
years of reading them and watching how people act, I've come to the conclusion
that those people are successful by nature first, and all these things they do
are helpers, not enablers. Doing that thing won't turn people into successes.

These things are crutches that successful people use to improve themselves,
not something that they learned in order to be successful. They'd be
successful either way, this is just easier.

------
tunesmith
Note the followup link he posts at the end: [https://www.bassam.com/single-
post/CSI-TED-Talks-What-Derek-...](https://www.bassam.com/single-post/CSI-TED-
Talks-What-Derek-Sivers-Was-Really-Saying)

Where it comes out in support of stating goals in some circumstances, and
clarifies that what it's really against is saying things like "I want to be a
lawyer", because then what that means is that you'll be apt to behave
consistently with _wanting_ to be a lawyer, and not with taking the steps to
actually become a lawyer. (Or how my yoga-instructor friend explained it, "So
then the universe responds, 'ok, poof! You now want to be a lawyer!'")

~~~
esotericn
Precisely.

You don't "want" to stick to a vegan diet. You have a vegan diet.

The distinction is roughly, between a goal, and a plan.

A plan is something that you can immediately begin executing upon. That
doesn't mean you won't falter, or that it has to be an on/off switch style
revolution, but there's a clear set of things to do.

A goal is embryonic. You don't know how, or if, you can achieve it yet.

~~~
hollerith
I am skeptical. Human desires are a thing, and I am going to continue to
assume that there is a good reason they are a thing until I have a very
detailed and very well tested explanation for why there is no harm in
replacing all of my desires with plans.

~~~
milohax
I think I understand you. At a lower level, there is a very good reason why,
during our teenage years, we develop our prefrontal cortex to moderate between
our desires and our actions (and why for all of us, going from childlike "I
see, I want, I do" to adult "I see, I want, I plan, I evaluate, I might do")
is so traumatic.

That, or you've made a subtle joke which I'm not quite seeing :-)

------
dimitar
Caveat for team and organizations: often leadership announces grand
initiatives with great fanfare and the lack of follow-up, perceived or real
makes people cynical.

Unfortunately, you cannot avoid announcing your plans if you expect others to
follow you - its possible people don't understand what you want to achieve and
end up just as frustrated. This is part of a leaders job.

I like what TA said about "make sure not to say it as a satisfaction but as
dissatisfaction"\- definitely keeping the focus on what you want to fix is
better than the specific solution you've devised - you might end up finding a
better solution anyway and people will help you do it.

Make announcements on small sub-plans often and follow-up even more often, so
that people know feel that whatever you want to implement in your
team/organization is happening. Definitely tell them a long-term goal, but
keep the focus on the next task that needs to be done. And make the "small"
announcements at the moment you feel you are ready to answer all questions the
team might ask you, but not earlier.

So, to be effective in an organization you need to do "continuous announcing"
of small plans.

~~~
LanceH
The rule for big corporations is that you must announce your plans and make
them as grand as possible to build your budget/empire. This is necessary to
prevent a takeover from one of the other many groups doing the exact same
thing within the company.

------
mrslave
I don't share ideas with many people anymore. Even ideas, and especially not
goals. Any negative people are out, which unfortunately is too many.

The few that are trusted and have an analytical mindset are helpful for sound
boarding, even if you don't exactly get them to immediately quit their jobs
and join you at _exciting-new-startup-here.tld_.

Finally, I try to spend more time in general with those directly contributing
to achieve my goals, usually in the activity itself (e.g. work, training,
study). Work can be harder to navigate because, well, I'm not responsible for
firing ;-) but it is possible to at least move the needle.

------
mzkply
That has the exact opposite effect on me. I actually use that method to shame
myself into accomplishing what I've announced...

~~~
jhoechtl
That's gernerally true for polster-types who brag around with what they have
done wjile others see their contribution rather miniscule.

I know this could be understood insulting, still my observation though.

~~~
mzkply
That's only if you're talking about major accomplishments, like "I'm gonna
make Director by 2021". Ya that's bullshit and bragging. I'm referring to
things like saying "Guys i'm gonna not drink for a month" or "I'm gonna finish
that damn car repair this summer".

------
dzink
The article linked is not the one of the actual study. Here is the actual
study: [https://s18798.pcdn.co/motivationlab/wp-
content/uploads/site...](https://s18798.pcdn.co/motivationlab/wp-
content/uploads/sites/6235/2019/02/gollwitzer-et-al-2009-when-intentions-go-
public.pdf) A cursory look shows the study talks about identity projection and
actions (law students given extra material and asked to watch it, are less
likely to watch it if they have told their observer they are going to watch
it). However the difference is 1 minute of less watching and could be
attributed to other factors.

Additionally, the same author has published research 5 years later
([https://s18798.pcdn.co/motivationlab/wp-
content/uploads/site...](https://s18798.pcdn.co/motivationlab/wp-
content/uploads/sites/6235/2019/02/ahn-et-al-2015-goal-projection-in-public-
places.pdf)) that explains goal projection in public places is helpful as " is
part of our everyday life and is fostered by high-goal commitment, perceiving
others as similar, and ongoing goal striving.". So it is one thing to say you
are going to be better at something by own self-study, but another when you
are actually pursuing something and need help to achieve it. Announcing
something allows you to connect with others sharing the same goal to get help
or community, and shows you continue to be committed.

Feel free to read the studies and see if you can draw other conclusions, but
this is not as black and white as the article claims.

------
SkyTreasure
So true it happens to me many times. When I tell about the new idea or half
done projects I feel less motivated to complete it.

So right now my lips are sealed on the current project that I am working and
it's coming in good shape as of now

~~~
malux85
Did you just jinkx the “coming in good shape as of now” part because you
announced it?

~~~
SkyTreasure
Nope unless i tell what i am building its jinkx protected :D

------
SubiculumCode
My experience confirms the decrease in motivation after anouncement of a new
exercise routine, diet, or life plan. Keep it private unless you already have
a 100% committment within yourself to follow through. I pre-announced that I
was quitting smoking, but I was really ready, and haven't smoked in 12+ years.

------
CM30
Wonder if the feeling of being overwhelmed by the work involved in carrying
out said plans feeds into this somehow. I mean, it's very easy to get carried
away when planning things, and end up creating an absolutely enormous list of
requirements you 'need' to meet to finish the project, many of which may
require knowing more about the field to proceed.

That's certainly been an issue with my own projects, where the 'plan' ends up
being more in line with the current HTML 5 specification in terms of length.

Meanwhile whenever I don't announce my plans/write them down in any way, it
works better because I just get on with stuff and stop get sidetracked by
irrelevant details and extras.

Also, announcing plans publically gets everyone hyped up about something to
the point its original creator may struggle to get said project to live up to
its own hype.

------
magashna
The best thing I did last year was going to a gym 2 weeks before xmas and
getting a membership and a trainer. I didn't tell anyone, I didn't make it my
"new year resolution", I just went and did it. I'm still happily chugging
along about 10 months later.

------
RichardHeart
Depends on how you do it. Announce a launch date for your project and tell me
you're not 100% busting your ass to try and meet it.

------
peterxpark
While in general, I agree with not announcing plans until they're finished, I
do have two counterpoints

1) A year ago, I announced to in-person friends and on FB eliminating certain
foods from my diet. Afterwards, it was easy because I could always remember I
publicly announced it. Last year, it was chicken. This year, I added pork,
soda, and processed meats. Haven't touched them since.

2) If it's very tangible and concrete then I find it works well. I announced
writing daily for 30 days on my blog and successfully did it.

But yeah, general plans like I'm going to start a business or workout more
usually fizzle out after the initial excitement.

------
kelnos
I find this incredibly transformative, more than I expected when clicking on
the link.

Intuitively, I always believed that announcing my plans would sort of put me
on the hook for completing them. That if I announced something and later
didn't deliver, I'd feel ashamed. Obviously avoiding shame wouldn't be the
only thing motivated me, but I figured I could add shame-avoidance to the list
of motivations and make things overall stronger.

But this is definitely something to think about, and try to apply to myself.

------
friendlybus
I think the keyword in this article is intentions. Those should remain
private, but anything else about your work can be discussed and managed and is
frequently better to do so.

The modern concept of a self is a difficult thing. I don't fully understand
it. It seems to include a willingness to isolate and exile part of yourself.
The boundary between what's internal and external is the basis of a whole
category of research, but the modern pop-psychology idea is just to run with
it as if we could know.

------
angel_j
I always had some uncanny notion of this, and would keep my plans to myself.
For some things, it's the way to go (like quitting your job and traveling).
Probably b/c you don't need the external input; it only adds noise.

Yet I wouldn't be so quick to discourage sharing and doing what it takes to
stay motivated. External motivation is great, I wish I had more of it!

I reckon there is greater glory in stating what you will do and following
through ftw... and yummy humble pie for you if you give up or fail.

~~~
agota
I think you have a good point on external input noise.

When you announce your plans to people close to you, such as family and
friends and coworkers, you start getting input which is not necessarily useful
even if their intentions are good.

Moreover, your announcement might make some people uncomfortable to the point
where they try to sabotage you, either intentionally or subconsciously.

------
nonbirithm
I was torn on this. I don't want to feel like I'm shouting into the void if
I'm working on something creative, because I do want other people to see what
I make eventually. It seems to be reasonable to say that criticism is helpful
if you're trying to get better at something (and take it in good faith). At
some point that means releasing something to the public.

But I had been conflating finished work with the work needed to finish things.
I'm also very tempted to reach out to people about what I want to get better
at since I tend to seek validation externally. But only I can actually put in
any effort towards my own goals.

Now my policy is to just shut up about it and put all that effort I could be
spending speaking empty promises that haven't been fulfilled into putting my
head down and doing things myself. Reaching out to people comes after you have
something to show.

At the same time I want to meet people who are creative and that means outing
yourself as creative also if you want that connection. It's hard putting in
all that effort and being unable to talk to people about it.

------
smacktoward
Or as Al Swearengen put it on the best TV show ever, HBO's _Deadwood_ :
"Announcing your plans is a good way to hear God laugh."

------
dschuetz
It definitely sets back the initial excitement or motivation behind a new
idea, especially if it's half-backed. Can confirm from experience.

------
burtonator
There's another counter to this. If you announce your plans but put a penalty
on it for non-accomplishment it acts as a commitment device.

You should read about commitment devices in general but the idea is they FORCE
you to do something you know you're probably not going to do.

A good example is to tell your friend you're going to run a marathon and if
you don't you'll give her $1000.

~~~
wool_gather
The way you phrased that kind of makes it sound like just another commitment
to be avoided. Wouldn't you need to do something more like "give your friend
$1000 in escrow and tell her she should only give it back to you if you run
the marathon"?

~~~
yebyen
This depends how trustworthy you are in general, and is definitely an
interesting question.

Would Gandhi take a pill which made him 1% less likely to not commit any
murders, if it meant receiving a million dollars with no other strings
attached?

The answer seems to be, "he would use a Schelling Fence" if that was an
option.

[https://blog.beeminder.com/schelling/](https://blog.beeminder.com/schelling/)

[https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/SdkAesHBt4tsivEKe/gandhi-
mur...](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/SdkAesHBt4tsivEKe/gandhi-murder-pills-
and-mental-illness)

------
enobrev
Does reserving a domain name fall under the category of "Announcing your
plans"? If so, my experience absolutely correlates with this. I might as well
save my ideas to pocket. At least that's a free way to keep really interesting
things I'll never see again.

~~~
empressplay
Ah, yes... domain name addiction. Been there, done that =)

------
furyofantares
The number of things that I have an impulse to accomplish vastly exceeds my
physical ability to accomplish them. This used to cause me great frustration
but I’ve learned that I get a lot of value out of thought exploration, even if
I can’t tell the difference between something I’ll want to stick with and
something I’ll want to dump at any specific stage in the process.

If I announce my plans and am left without a need to follow through, that’s
great. Apparently I didn’t really have a need for the thing, I just had a need
for exploration, and I didn’t know that’s all I needed from the idea yet. I
have plenty of things I want to do and can move on to the next thing.

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audiometry
[https://interruptions.net/literature/Wicklund-
BASP81.pdf](https://interruptions.net/literature/Wicklund-BASP81.pdf) Is my
go-to reference article. The idea of 'symbolic self completion' resonates so
strongly with my personal experiences that 'talking depletes'. The less said
about what you're working on, what your goals are, how you want to be, the
better.

The book "Ego is the Enemy" also explains this effect. (It may have been the
origin idea that led me to chase down the research paper in the first place)

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KangLi
[Premature sense of completeness] Sums it all. I'd also add that such negative
behavior is encouraged in our society to the point where praise is given for
anything said, which is not even done yet. Premature achievers as well indeed
take the idea of making the first step further down the perdition road and
assume it's indeed even better to announce it publicly. I've always felt that
speaking of what I plan to achieve is worthless because I knew I was seeking
some gratification behind it, which sucked because why would you seek praise
for what you haven't done yet?

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echelon
I do not find this to be the case at all.

My friends and coworkers are aware of my work on a particular ML task and are
cheering me on. Every major hurdle and obstacle I've encountered is met with
support and an unending eagerness to try my product.

I am so ready to get this out the door and I'm spending all of my free time on
it. It's going to be huge.

This has been a year long project that is the offshoot of another project that
led me down this more exciting path. My investment is only getting more and
more intense now that I've found the correct problem domain gradient to
explore.

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JohnJamesRambo
I had never seen these ideas put down on paper but it is true for me. My mind
can be pretty satisfied with just thinking it knows how it would be if I
accomplished something instead of actually doing it.

~~~
jhoechtl
While I share your sentiment I think the article means sthg. Different. What I
think it says is: If you have a plan and tell others about it's realization,
you are less motivated to actually implement your plan.

Thinking about me it is bexause others start to monitor my doings, causing
pressure and somewhat forcing me to work according to others schedules instead
of my own. That's what workflife is about, no?

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tempsy
Hm. I've heard the exact opposite e.g. if you want to keep yourself
accountable about doing something then you should tell everyone you know that
you're doing it.

~~~
dx87
I think that only works if you tell people that will hold you accountable,
like if you tell your spouse that you'll mow the lawn, they'll hold you to it.
If you're posting "I'm going to lose weight this year!" on social media,
people probably won't hold you accountable and you'll still be glad that you
collected a bunch of likes and thumbsups without having to accomplish
anything.

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rootusrootus
I remember reading about this years ago (maybe this very article). Announcing
your plans seems to give you some of the satisfaction of having accomplished
them, without actually doing anything. So ... I don't tell anyone if I'm
planning a workout change, diet change, side project, etc, unless I figure
I'll need the peer pressure more than my internal motivation.

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Maximus9000
I'd word it differently:

"Share your 'go up' goals selectively... share your 'go up' goals with
everyone you possibly can"

So, if you want to give up smoking, share that with everyone including your
mailman. They will help you on your path. However, beware of sharing your 'go
up' goals - like starting a business - with others... they might drag you
down.

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matwood
I don't know about plans, but it does help to identify as 'the person who...'
as long as those are the attributes you want. The person who executes or the
person who is in shape or eats well are all positive traits that can be
cultivated and self-reinforce. For me, there is more general bang for the
popsci buck in the above than announcing plans.

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NoPicklez
I think it's just safe to say that it depends on what motivates you. It's been
known for a very long time that announcing plans creates a form of external
accountability, which might be motivation for a number of people, but not for
some.

So saying that announcing your plans makes you less motivated to accomplish
them I think is too much of a blanket statement.

------
dang
A thread from 2014:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7496923](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7496923)

Discussed at the time (and submitted by the author):
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=660720](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=660720)

------
zarro
How about keeping a plan secret makes you more motivated to accomplish it.

In the opposite case, you were already rewarded before the successful action,
in this case, you will only get the reward once it succeeds. It forces you to
focus on accomplishing instead of on giving off the appearance that you will
be successful.

Although often the former may depend on the latter.

------
baxtr
But then again: dreaming about startups will help you avoid pursuing a crazy
career with no guarantee that it will work out. I often dream about startups
that I could do and vividly imagine how successful they’d be. It feels really
good. Then I stop and tell myself that I’ll never do it

------
honkycat
I've heard the exact opposite from a lot of people I respect. That announcing
plans and communicating with your peers and getting support and accountability
for your plans actually increases the likelihood of success.

But I mean, that doesn't let you shit on the "posers" so whatever.

~~~
Pabss
I believe that communicating a plan already in motion is not the same as
expressing an idea one might have. If I understood correctly this article
points out to the latter. While having already a plan in motion, you will want
to share it with the people and colleagues that you want in order to continue
an idea. But if you have an idea that you want to set in motion, and just
share it around with everyone there's a high chance that it wont kick off.

------
sebringj
What about announcing deadlines and completion times that others will depend
on? Won't you feel more shameful if you can't meet that and will work harder
to meet that rather than secretly working to accomplish something with no
repercussions?

------
Porthos9K
The concept of "vaporware" seems relevant to this discussion. It's easy to
talk big and hype a product that doesn't actually exist yet, but following
through and getting the product shipped is a hell of a lot harder.

------
shanemhansen
I don't disagree with the study results. I guess talking about a thing can be
a substitute for doing it.

But as others have mentioned, publicly committing to a specific measurable
goal can help others hold you accountable.

------
doyoulikeworms
I definitely buy this. I've blogged about personal projects, and writing out
plans for a project tends to take some wind out of its sails. It's motivating
to share progress, though.

------
notjustanymike
I'd be interested in seeing what happens when someone else announces your
plans. You don't get the same payoff, but still feel the obligation.

------
thatgerhard
This is my personal way of doing things, if its my own plan where I wont need
any outside parties, nobody hears about it

------
droobles
I generally find this is true. I work better on side projects and such if no
one knows I'm doing it.

------
hi41
How would this work in the context of work in a team? Say you have an idea for
fixing a bug. Without telling the manager about your intent how could you
actually work on it? The manager comes quickly to find where all your hours
went doing what pursuit.

~~~
dpedu
Managers aren't hour bean counters or people you need permission from to do
work. Of course, I'm not speaking of toxic environments.

------
viburnum
Announcing plans is good because then you can actually get some satisfaction
from it. You’re never going to accomplish anything anyway so you might as well
take the happiness where you can get it.

~~~
zarro
I don't think that they understood your next level satire.

------
hartator
yeah I have this feeling as well. At the same time if someone asking “what’s
up?” and you say nothing, I feel like lying.

------
growlist
53 days sober. Announced it at the start.

~~~
topkai22
I think the difference here is it is announcing an accomplishment, not an
intention. Since its already happened, you can build pride around it.

I believe the article is saying is that announcing "I'm going to quit
drinking." Is not a good way to get and stay sober.

~~~
mhb
Right but growlist is providing a counterexample since _Announced it at the
start_.

~~~
taeric
It is a probabilistic claim, not a causal one. Whether you announce it can
clearly have no bearing on doing it, at the physical level. However, the
studies showed that you're more likely to succeed it you kept it private.

Not guaranteed to succeed. Not doomed to fail if you announce. Just like
getting dealt an ace as the first card doesn't determine if you win. Has
better chances than getting a two, though.

------
shadowmore
Oh, thank God, I'm not crazy.

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indoor47
So, do OKRs then make any sense?

------
RocketSyntax
How else can you get validation?

------
ada1981
#BuildTheWall #LockHerUp

