

Ask HN: anyone leave a high paying job to work at a startup? - speaks

And on a similar note, is a chance at a big payout an important factor for anyone going the startup route (founder or employee)?<p>maybe it's just me, but it seems like it's just taboo to talk about money - everyone says do it because you love it, job descriptions talking about passion this and passion that. not that I disagree with those ideas, I don't - but how do you all look at the financial element?<p>I make a significant amount of money now (not bragging, just providing some context), so leaving it behind for a startup is a difficult decision. yes, it could be an awesome working environment, and yes, it could be a stepping stone to other opportunities. but given startup success rates and typical equity I would expect as a non-founder, it's a big time loser, at least purely financially.<p>anyone have similar experiences, whether they decided to go with startups or not? what was your thought process? alternatively, how much would you have to make to stick with a day job, assuming it was at least somewhat stimulating?<p>(throwaway account since I didn't want to go into my finances with my main account)
======
noname123
When I was in middle school, I left my usual clique of friends to be in the
"Abercrombie & Fitch" clique. Reasoning that being popular would expose me
more to cooler people and prettier girls.

When I was in high school going over college, I decided to go to a school
based on its prestige over the school I fitted in. Reasoning that a school
with a better name would help me get a better job and impress people when I go
to dinner parties.

When I was in college, I decided to chase girls that I can't have and break
off with girls who I clicked well with. Reasoning that I should get what I
can't have and that most people will judge me better with a good-looking
girlfriend.

When I'm working, I chose to work at a well-known Wall St. company over a
unknown startup. Reasoning that the compensation and the cocktail impression
factor would be better this way.

Like a trader, everyday people make choices. Some people choose to play it
safe their whole life, stay, work, marry & die in the same town that they were
born in. Some people take incredible unwarranted risks, like dedicating their
lives to be a professional athlete/musician/actresses despite overwhelming
evidences that they don't have the talent for it. Some people take huge risk
by letting themselves emotionally vulnerable when they fall in love. Some
people follow the most optimized investment plan, go to the right
school/major, work at the right company, choose the right partner, put the
right contribution into one's 401(k) plan, have the kids and then retire the
right time and finally die the right way.

But the market is simpler than life because in the end, everyone's measuring
stick is the same, how much money you made/lost. But in something vague as
life, everyone has different measuring stick; what's even more frustrating,
your own measure stick is constantly changing; what I thought was important
two years ago is completely trivial to me now and vice versa for what I
thought was trivial.

And there's no use in predicting what you think would be important to you in
the future because you most probably end up being completely off; plus, it'll
just leave you frustrated to forgo your present moment to work towards a
future that you might discover that you won't want anyways. Attribute that to
any philosophy or psychology B.S you want (cognitive dissonance, confirmation
bias, existentialism), all I know is that it has happened and will happen
again.

The only certain I'm certain about is the present; I'm not talking about being
hedonistic, but to take risks for the present and to leave the present moment
without any regrets. Kiss the girl, stay up late to finish coding & take the
day off just to take a walk.

~~~
kirse
_what's even more frustrating, your own measure stick is constantly changing;
what I thought was important two years ago is completely trivial to me now and
vice versa for what I thought was trivial._

Life loves to subject us to the useless positional (numbers) measuring sticks
that mean nothing in the long term. Case in point: Someone name (off the top
of their head) the ten wealthiest men - in the correct order - back in 1970.

This is why it's so important to develop a set of principles that you want to
live by, and let those principles be the compass that guides you through life.
You'll never know the path that you'll be taking, but at least you know you're
headed in the direction that you want.

These principles I'm referring to are things like love, honesty, integrity,
etc. For me, I think the example provided by Jesus in the Bible highlights the
best example of human principles I've ever seen, so I try my best to follow
those.

I will add though, very easy to talk about this concept, extremely hard to do.

~~~
srgseg
_Someone name (off the top of their head) the ten wealthiest men - in the
correct order - back in 1970._

Irrelavent. Can anyone name the top 10 wealthiest in the correct order, today?
More importantly, why does it matter whether you know or not. What counts is
whether they consider to be living the life that makes them feel great. What's
wrong with that involving money for some people?

You think money can't bring happiness? Look at the f __*ing smile on my face.
Ear to ear, baby.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvICN8DNMpY#t=2m10s>

~~~
kirse
Dude, you completely, totally, utterly missed the point of my comment. Where
did I say that money can't bring happiness? Where did I say that wealth is a
bad thing?

Let me restate the point of it for you, since it clearly went over your head:
In life, it's best to have a personal (internal) measuring stick that keeps
you grounded regardless of how you choose to play the "numbers" game...

~~~
srgseg
_Life loves to subject us to the useless positional (numbers) measuring sticks
that mean nothing in the long term._

It means a lot to me in the long term that I'm living in a nice big house with
a nice big garden for my kids to play in, which is also close to a world class
city and world class companies. That's going to be very expensive. Therefore
money isn't a useless positional measurement stick that means nothing in the
long term to me. It's an incredibly important number that if I attain will
mean fulfilling a dream and bringing me and my family much happiness. No
internal measurement stick is going to make me happy about being forced to
bring up my kids in a trailer park in rural Texas.

------
newhouseb
From my answer on Quora ([http://www.quora.com/What-made-you-quit-your-
comfortable-sal...](http://www.quora.com/What-made-you-quit-your-comfortable-
salaried-job-and-start-a-company))

Jeff Bezos' Regret Minimization Framework:

"...it really was a decision that I had to make for myself, and the framework
I found which made the decision incredibly easy was what I called -- which
only a nerd would call -- a "regret minimization framework." So, I wanted to
project myself forward to age 80 and say, "Okay, now I'm looking back on my
life. I want to have minimized the number of regrets I have." I knew that when
I was 80 I was not going to regret having tried this. I was not going to
regret trying to participate in this thing called the Internet that I thought
was going to be a really big deal. I knew that if I failed I wouldn't regret
that, but I knew the one thing I might regret is not ever having tried. I knew
that that would haunt me every day, and so, when I thought about it that way
it was an incredibly easy decision. And, I think that's very good. If you can
project yourself out to age 80 and sort of think, "What will I think at that
time?" it gets you away from some of the daily pieces of confusion. You know,
I left this Wall Street firm in the middle of the year. When you do that, you
walk away from your annual bonus. That's the kind of thing that in the short-
term can confuse you, but if you think about the long-term then you can really
make good life decisions that you won't regret later."

See: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwG_qR6XmDQ>

A big payout is definitely a large factor in jumping ship if you're arrogant
enough to believe that you can attain such a thing. If you just want to "work
at a startup" without having much of an idea about which startup and no
intention of starting one yourself, then frankly in my opinion, jumping ship
isn't for you. If you're this concerned about your financial status today, at
a company you don't drive the vision for you're going to find it harder to
drum up the ambition and drive it takes to get through times where a huge
financial payout is not as certain.

------
starcraft_mania
throwaway account: When I left my job a few months ago, my total income from
my employer to that point this year was over 400k. It includes payouts from my
last startup I sold, but this would have continued for the next year or so had
i stayed.

Since this is a financial article, I'll focus on financial stuff.

Its anecdotal but I think the average financial return for doing a startup is
slightly better overall, and probably decently better if you are highly
intelligent and skilled overall.

If you are not highly intelligent and skilled overall its possible working at
a company is a better deal.

Two questions to consider:

Q1: Long term--what will open up more avenues of opportunity for me?

In general I was not a very good corporate climber. Some ppl are. Some ppl
aren't. I am not. I dress casually, speak colloquially and comparatively don't
care too much about what other ppl think and don't like 9-5.

Given I already have startup success, it was easy for me to decide startups
are financially more lucrative for me.

Why didn't I stay and wait for all my earnings to pay out?

1\. I got most of it already

2\. I'm not getting any younger

3\. I found a great team that I wanted to start a company with.

4\. The remaining cash would not change my life significantly.

Given all of that, I decided I'd rather leave.

Q2: Having been in your position when I was a bit younger and first starting
out (relatively high paying job...didn't love it but i wasn't going to shoot
myself), I'd ask myself the "bezos/jobs question" : When you are 80 and on
your deathbed, your life flashing before you in your last days, will you look
back and regret the decision you took to jump ship and do a startup?

Imagine all sorts of realistic worst case scenarios....completely flops, you
go bankrupt, waste 3 years of your life, gf leaves, mess up your health for a
while...whatever is really bad but realistic.

Does the 80 yr old regret the decision of doing the startup? If so, then thats
fine. Don't do it. I think I would have balked if I had a mortgage, kids and
no savings.

However, in general people regret things they haven't done more than things
that they did.

~~~
todd3834
I really enjoyed this answer and would love to know more details, however I
can understand why you are leaving out some of the details and posting from a
throwaway account. I'm personally most interested in the idea for the new
startup and that talent in the team that helped you make the decision to walk
from the employer. Is there any way I could ask you a few questions? You can
contact me since that is a throwaway account unless you have better things to
do. ;-)

~~~
starcraft_mania
Well we may end up ditching our idea after some initial customer feedback so
the idea itself isn't too important.

The team is definitely the most important. I've been looking for the last
year. The advice has been oft repeated but here is my top criteria:

\- Get people who can, at the end of the day, do everything.

\- Get people who are better than you at something or multiple things (for
example, coding, sales)

\- Get people who are awesome at as many things as possible.

\- Make sure your values and your expectations are in alignment about the
endeavor. If one person expects VC funding and good pay to support a family
and the other wants to go into ramen profitable mode it'll be tough.

\- Make sure they are not pansies. Some people who have succeeded all their
lives will give up at the first sign of trouble for 'easier pastures'. As best
you can, try to find people who have grit and determination.

\- If you're not sure, pass. Its alot cheaper to make the right decision than
to have to divorce later.

------
Rampidbyter
I left a high paying job two weeks ago mid-project to start a start-up. I did
it because each day in that cube I cared less and less about money and more
and more about freedom. I spent the better part of the past two years making
my company over 7.6 million in just six months, and actually much more over
the full two years.

I needed to create and to be rewarded for my efforts fully. Everyone I know
was against it, wife, family, and friends. Thought I was throwing away
something they could only hope for. At the end of the day we live once I'd
rather be poor and happy trying something I always wanted than stay in that
cube always wondering.

What prompted my move so abruptly was interviewing a guy for a senior
position. We asked him what his ideal job would be, and he gave an answer of
doing his own business. He excused it as a dream because he has kids, and
that's when I realized everyone I worked with had the same reason for not just
doing it. That's when it snapped in me.

Week later I put in my notice. No jobs no nets to fall back onto. I actually
worked on my own project last week and it was heaven. I have a meeting for a
three month contract next week to feed my funds to continue this dream.
Brother this has been the best two weeks of my life.

~~~
marcalc
That's great to hear. Recently (some months), myself and a friend got past
through the same situation than yours. We have a project we were building at
night for some other months and then we thought we should be courageous and
give it shot and jump into the adventure of leaving you day-job to create a
startup. With some dedicated search through our contacts, we have found an
investor willing to help us feed our funds too and we have been making real
progress towards our company's success. I must say, it has been great to work
with my own project and a fellow partner that helps me through ups and downs
to create this reality for us. :-) Everything just depends on our own effort
and willingness. It's hard at first, but once we'd crossed that path, its
invigorating that we can live without 9-5's.. :).. Thanks Hacker News to make
us meet so many great people! Best wishes for you all.

------
rphlx
OK, the goal is independent wealth: a low risk passive income. The math for
this is pretty simple.

Say you are a rock star making $100k/yr. After taxes, in CA, that's ~$60k/yr.
If you are single and super-cheap (i.e. celibate), you can live acceptably on
about 30k. Thus, you build 30k/yr in capital.

Say you need $3k/mo bare minimum, pre-tax, to retire, and refuse to draw down
on capital. At a 5% return you will need $720k. It will take 20+ years to get
there, assuming you survive as a corporate cog for that long, which is
unlikely, given competition from emerging markets.

Of course, if you ever get married and have a family, this won't work at all.
And if Wall St somehow takes 30% of your portfolio one year, you are in
serious trouble.

Now, instead, say you quit working for The Man, and build a service priced at
$10/mo. You have the tech background already, and work hard to learn the
necessary ops, marketing, sales, and other skills. You automate everything.
You work from home (saving 1 hr/day commute), have excellent margin, no
employees, etc. With a web app, to hit $3k/mo, you probably only need to
average 400-500 paying customers.

There are several billion people on the Internet. You just need 500.

Sure, a business producing $3k/mo after expenses is not exactly equal to
having $720k in liquid investments. It's much less liquid, requires more of
your time, faces competition, etc. But it also has some advantages, such as
the potential for very rapid growth.

Most importantly, it scales: you can build more than 1 app. So even though
you'll probably fail a lot before success, you're probably still better off.

I wish somebody told me this 10 years ago.

~~~
inboulder
I'm not sure if you're just naive, but "rock star" programmers make a lot more
than $100k/yr, try tripling that.

~~~
flacon
300K inboulder? Where do you live? 300K is like C-suite salary in most of the
country.

~~~
timcederman
That's true, but a "rock star" engineer at Google Mountain View earns a base
of ~ $150k-$200k. Add on a bonus/stock of $75k-$100k, yeah, upper bounds is
$300k. Glassdoor also backs up what I've heard.

~~~
flacon
Options are pretty much worthless till you can execute them. Even then theres
only a one time cash-in-hand situation. Believe me I have a ton of options
right now and its not helping ;)

~~~
timcederman
Are you at Google? If you are, and aren't getting GSUs (fully vested stock
units), you're missing out.

~~~
flacon
No and no. I have only had traditional stock options which are essentially
funny money that are vested over a period of years. You still have to purchase
the stock but after the stock is vested you just get the ability to execute
once there is an equity event such as IPO or sale...

~~~
timcederman
Yeah. Google offer options and stock units, so are definitely a valuable
component of the salary.

------
tptacek
I've turned down very good offers to stay in startup-land. But you're right:
given success rates and the upside exposed to non-founders, it's not a great
move.

Start something small on the side. Fix your personal finances so you can build
up a warchest (it's easy: just live the lifestyle you're considering living as
a startup employee). Then, in a couple years, go work for yourself.

------
cperciva
I didn't leave a high paying job, but I did turn down a high paying job offer
from Google. My consideration wasn't "will this make me rich"; rather, it was
"can I make enough money in the long term doing this that I won't be
dramatically worse off".

I suspect that for most people the calculation comes down to some version of
"what's the most interesting work I can do while still having a reasonably
comfortable income".

------
mkuhn
I did not leave a high paying job to start my own company but I rejected an
offer and didn't collect others before I started my own company directly after
finishing my studies.

I have a double Masters in Business Administration and the "traditional" way
for students like me is to start as a consultant (McKinsey and the gang),
investment banker or whatever. In Switzerland that meant a starting salary of
at least six figures but money was not really a factor in my decision it was
mostly based on the fact that I wanted to do what I liked.

In the year between my Bachelors and Masters degree I interned 6 months for a
Swiss web/technology consulting company and 3 months for Accenture. Both
experiences bored me to a degree I had not thought possible. It wasn't that I
had no responsibility - which I had - or that the tasks were repetitive - they
were only slightly - but I just wasn't faced with the challenges I was looking
for. From quite early on I loved to create my own things and I realized that
just was not possible in a corporate environment and I had to do something
about it. My first plan - following conventions - was to be a part-time
entrepreneur. I wanted to work at one of those strategy consulting companies
and have my own thing on the side. When I look back that idea seems crazy but
at that time I was convinced I could do both. But in March I talked to a
successful Swiss Entrepreneur and he convinced me that this is an all or
nothing game. Either I went all-in or I had to fold. I decided to go for it
and haven't looked back.

As I said before money wasn't really a factor in this decision and that is for
a few reasons:

1\. I have a safety net through my parents. This obviously is a very
comfortable situation that not everybody has.

2\. I looked at my potential salary as opportunity costs and decided that it
was worth the costs that I could do what I wanted.

3\. If I need to I can still go work for those companies I decided to forgo
now or another company. I have an excellent education and I see my
entrepreneurial endeavors as an extension on that. Obviously after having been
an entrepreneur for several years I probably won't fit into the mindset that
Strategy consulting companies look for but there will be plenty of
opportunities if need be.

4\. I never had massive amount of money available to me. I always lived
comfortably and still do but I was never a big earner and therefore don't have
an expensive lifestyle to support. Also at the moment I don't have any
responsibilities, no family, no children to support.

On a side note: The consequences of my decision to start my own business have
not always been easy. One of the harshest things is that many of my friends
now almost can swim in money but once I talk to them about their Job I am
convinced to have made the right decision.

------
acabal
I left a high-paying job as a senior .NET developer at a company in LA. I was
unhappy with the town and the situation I had put myself in, so I planned to
take a year off to travel and develop my fledgling startup. I got rid of
nearly all of my possessions, put a few boxes of keepsakes in storage, and
left with only a small backpack. Now almost three years later, my startup is
profitable enough to pay my rent and for the occasional beer, and I'm typing
this from a country house in southern Belgium.

Leaving the high-paying job was the best decision I ever made. I make far less
money now than I used to, and even less than almost all of my friends; but I
work on what I want, when I want, and at my own pace, and I can take as many
days off as I want. (Yesterday I spent the entire day exploring Waterloo in
the sunshine, because I felt like it. Next week I go to Oktoberfest in
Munich).

Basically, I went from rich and dangerously depressed to comparatively poor
yet happier and more satisfied with my life. As long as you have enough cash
flow to keep a roof over your head and some healthy food on the table, that's
all you need.

------
eitally
I'll provide a counterpoint. I have a corporate job that pays pretty well and
I am very happy with it, to the point that I wouldn't consider leaving it
outside of a ludicrous offer. I love managing people and complex projects
involving wide variety of variable inputs. I love a global organization. I am
enthralled with coming to work everyday and being able to pick any number of
opportunities for a) improving people's lives, b) streamlining business
process, or c) creating new business opportunities. I'm only one step removed
from CIO and I have a boss who encourages me to run my org (currently 60
people) like a startup. I am encouraged to learn about customer development,
cutting edge technology, business law (mostly contracts at this point), and
all sorts of semi-random business processes. I love the chaos of it all, and I
especially love that I am trusted enough to be autonomous. I _feel_ like I'm
running my own little company... that just happens to be inside a Fortune 200
global mega-corp.

~~~
asanwal
Sounds like you have a great gig, but real entrepreneurship and
intrapreneurship (which is what you are) are very different beasts primarily
because of risk:reward.

Your risk is lower but so is your upside.

And that is one thing that entrepreneurship/startups offers - the chance at
building something and being rewarded big (albeit generally at insanely high
risk)

~~~
eitally
Mostly true, but... it depends on personal values. For me, the lower risk
rewards me with consistently high quality (and regular) family time. That
said, I am granted enough flexibility that if I come up with a saleable
product/service idea I am allowed to pursue it with company financing. The
odds are extremely low that any idea at all relevant to our operations would
end up with a huge payoff, but the odds are much higher that my work will
payoff in incremental business wins, and I'm ok with that. I'm not in it for
the money [as long as the money is stable and my income has a positive slope].

------
AmberShah
I did this, primarily to do work that was interesting and more fulfilling, and
it didn't end up working out after a trial period. But I did want to share my
experience about the payout question.

So I was making $85K a year as a project manager/developer. I went to work in
a contract period for a startup who, if I had gone full time, would have
offered around $65K to me as well as much worse benefits.

That would have included a certain number of shares. The founder gave me his
expectation as to what would be a low, medium or high exit. Based on that I
would have made between a couple thousand dollars and, at most, $100K. Now, I
would have to work at the startup for 4 years to fully vest, meaning I would
have lost $20K per year in salary. This means even if had a large exit and I
made $100K, it would still just be a little over what I had lost in salary.

After a couple of months there, I went to work at another "regular job" and
made $100K per year, which means it would have been a loss no matter what. Now
I still work making good money and am working on my startup on the side. Since
the startup-people were expected to put in significantly more than 40 hours a
week anyways, I'm probably just working about the same amount of time and
making way more money AND controlling my own destiny with a startup I am
personally passionate about.

------
gamble
Keep in mind that however much people talk about startups as a shared mission
or a calling, it's also about the money. Try asking for a meaningful chunk of
equity if you want proof. The goal of every startup is to reach an exit, which
is an acquisition 99% of the time. Once the retention agreements expire a year
or two later, the newly-enriched founders will be gone while the employees
will watch the acquirer systematically dismantle the company. Or they'll be
laid off.

This is a business; don't get too romantic about it.

------
peteypao
I felt seriously underchallenged at my day job, even though I was making six
figs. It was quite a difficult decision, given the fact that you hear horror
stories about people not able to find jobs in the current economy. However,
what it came down to, for me, was I was just wasting my time at my day job,
and after awhile I realized that time and my sanity was my most precious
commodity.

You say there are a lot of risks associated with a startup. As part of my
decision process, I realized I had to consider the long-term risk of being
unfulfilled at your job, not developing your skills and talents the way you
expect. This is a bigger risk IMO.

------
asanwal
I left a well-paying gig but left knowing 3 key things:

1\. Had a solid financial cushion via savings to really give myself enough
runway to do the startup thing sincerely and whole-heartedly

2\. Knew that if even things blow up, I'd always be employable

3\. Very few folks become really wealthy working for someone else

The upside monetarily is a motivator, but the bigger thing I've realized after
jumping to startup-ville is that my worst day in my startup is honestly better
than my best day in corporate America. There are immense non-monetary benefits
(and a whole lot more stress as well)

------
bkrausz
I left a great well paying job at TripAdvisor for a startup. It was definitely
a hard decision and I don't know which way it would have gone had I not gotten
into YC.

Had my job offered to double my salary or something rediculous like that I
probably still would have left, but coming from a middle-class family where
having a high paying job was a major motivator (for the stability, not the
luxury), it would have been a very painful thing to do.

------
arthurdent
This just boils down to "what are you looking for in life?"

18 months ago I was at a "high paying job" by most standards. I worked 45
hours a week, had great coworkers, and even generally enjoyed my work.

I left because a regular job gets in the way doing other things that are
important to me: enjoying the sun in the middle of the day, not working on
tuesday if i don't feel like it, traveling for 3 weeks at a time, etc.

Being incredibly rich or owning shiny toys isn't nearly as important to me as
scheduling freedom (and hopefully eventually location independence), so it
wasn't for me.

Sure, it'd be great if I somehow had a big payout for doing what I'm doing
now, but its not even in the top 5 factors for why I chose to pursue "the
startup route".

No amount of encouragement or advice from others who have left their jobs will
help you decide if its the right choice for you. You have to dig deep, figure
out what you ACTUALLY want, then you can decide if leaving the day job is
right for you.

~~~
jrockway
Next time, ask for vacation days.

------
jmathai
High paying is relative but after doing the calculations of joining a startup
with ≈15 employees the possible upside was really low when compared to
benefits such as stock options, employee stock purchase programs and 401k
matching.

I realized the the upside really exists for the founders...so that's what I'm
doing.

------
troymc
Jeff Bezos is a great example of someone who had a high-paying job, but quit
to go create a startup (Amazon.com).

"...and the framework I found which made the decision incredibly easy was what
I called -- which only a nerd would call -- a "regret minimization framework."
So, I wanted to project myself forward to age 80 and say, "Okay, now I'm
looking back on my life. I want to have minimized the number of regrets I
have." I knew that when I was 80 I was not going to regret having tried
this..."

\- quoted from <http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/bez0int-3>

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Terrible example, definitely an outlier, nothing to base your career on.

~~~
troymc
It only takes one person to prove that something is possible.

Your comment also implies that people should only base their career decisions
on what non-outlier (average) people have done. That sounds like a recipe for
mediocrity.

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man
persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw

------
j_baker
You probably won't get the same pay to work at a startup as you would get at a
bigger company. However, I currently work at a startup and I wouldn't consider
myself destitute. Just because you're working at a startup doesn't mean you'll
have a low standard of living.

If salary is important to you, I'd recommend a later stage startup. It will
likely be the happy median between an early stage startup and BigCo.

~~~
dotBen
That can be the worst of both worlds though... it's late enough stage that
your equity isn't really worth much even if the company has a relatively
successful exit but still less salary because 'it's not a BigCa'.

You'd be working mainly because a) it isn't a BigCo and b) the startup culture
is still apparent.

Sadly both of those things are only going to get less and less true as time
goes on if the company is successful.

------
JoeAltmaier
No. A startup is very risky. Being asked to take a pay cut means, really, that
you are investing cash (annually!) into the company (lost earnings) with
normally no compensation. Sure you get a stock option etc, but is it
calculated on lost earnings? Is it increased over time to account for this
loss? No, probably its commeasurate with others etc.

------
switch
speaks, are you trying to find a rationalization to stick with what you're
doing?

the whole 'fun' thing has two aspects.

There's the practicality aspect i.e. business in general and startups in
particular are painfully difficult and you can't really win if you don't like
(or ideally love) what you jump in to.

If you can work only 8 hrs a day but your opponent loves his work and words 14
hours a day you're screwed.

There's also the reality aspect. NO ONE ever does a start-up without
motivations like money and pleasure and importance.

If your prime modality is making money and comfort then a start-up isn't right
for you at all.

Also, all your reasons for wanting to do a start-up are meaningless. stepping
stone to other opportunities?

if you're taking such a big risk fucking do something that is the ultimate
opportunity.

------
gorbachev
I did about two years ago.

I took a 50% paycut to work at a company that was "re-inventing" itself and
starting up a technology organization. I switched jobs, because my current job
at the time was moving from building new stuff to maintaining old stuff, and
the new job was all about building from the ground up and learning new skills.

I loved the new job, but then due to severe fiscal mismanagement multiple
rounds of layoffs came about and the remaining people got their salaries cut
by 20%. I went from cashflow positive to cashflow negative. With a mortgage to
pay, I went back to a job with a high salary (and more boring actual work).

Without the salary cuts, I would still be at the job. Too bad, I really liked
it. However, the family's well being comes first.

------
geophile
Yes, and the high-paying job I left was at a big company that acquired my
previous startup.

Post-acquisition, the salary was good, the bonuses amazing, but the company
was dumb as a bag of hammers, and the job became soul-crushing. Dilbert
bosses, communication by powerpoint, pointless projects. It got to a point
where I just had to get back to a startup. All but one of the really early
employees left for similar reasons, and also to join startups again.

That said, I'm not sure I'd make quite the same decision if I couldn't get in
very early to a startup that I thought had a really good chance of succeeding.

------
msort
My suggestion:

if (there is a very promising good startup offer): take it else: work on your
side project until it takes off as a real startup

------
HectorRamos
I wouldn't call my previous job "high paying," but it had a good enough
salary. I could've stayed for years and save enough to live a good middle
class life.

I've since left and joined a startup, I'm making slightly less and with less
benefits but I'm definitely having more fun and learning 10x as much working
in a small very early stage startup versus a corporate 100+ year old company.

------
copper
I did - and this is in India, where "high" isn't really all that high to begin
with.

My thought process was pretty simple: at the time, I was more or less
independent, and living /very/ frugally, which made the decision easy. I do
know this: if my financial needs were different, I wouldn't have moved.

~~~
amazed
Hey,

I am also in India. I am interested to know more about your story.

~~~
copper
Well, there's not much to say, really: I finished college, joined a dull-ish
corporate job (that nonetheless taught me more than I wanted about politics,
including the fact that I suck at it), and then joined a startup.

This is the kind of startup that doesn't figure all that much on HN, since
it's in a rather specialized niche of a specialized industry to begin with.
I'm not a founder, but one of the early employees.

------
nihit
You may want to read this, written by an Indian so more in lacs and rupees
than in dollars and millions. But you would get the point.
<http://www.pluggd.in/why-work-for-a-startup-297/>

------
swombat
I turned down a good offer from Lehman Brothers front office to continue
working on and launch my first startup. That startup flamed out within 3
months of launch, but I have never for even one second regretted that
decision.

------
soc
yep, i did. i found out that you go from $ to 0. And it's very hard to make
the first .01 cent. But you will learn a lot, so take it as having fun for a
year and learning more than you learned in Univ. and you will be ok.

Actually I wish our profession wasn't just 0 or big chance payout but had some
in between too.

~~~
lsc
>Actually I wish our profession wasn't just 0 or big chance payout but had
some in between too.

It's not. I mean, if you don't take on investors or debit, it's pretty easy to
setup a sub-minimum wage business for yourself. I've set up more of those than
I care to remember.

Now, getting yourself up to ramen profitable from that is a little more work,
(I can live on $15/hr, but not on $5/hr) and getting yourself to opportunity
cost profitable is a lot more work. But if you are bootstrapping, there is a
whole continuum between zero and 'big payout'

~~~
SingAlong
I havent even taken up a job yet. But I envy Isc for the satisfaction he gets
out of running Prgmr. Wow wondering how it feels to be like a hero running the
most affordable vps services and getting all those thanks for supporting
people at such low prices.

P.S: he also wrote a book on Xen which is in my ToRead list.

~~~
lsc
thank you for your kind words. Prgmr.com is, right now, somewhere between
ramen profitable and opportunity cost profitable. My net worth, if my
understanding of standard industry prices, is going up significantly faster
than if I were to work a regular job, spend what I'm spending, and save the
rest, but I'm still living on 1/4th to 1/3rd what I'd make as a SysAdmin
elsewhere, so I feel like I'm on the right path, but I haven't arrived yet.

