
Creative Tim: Growing a side project into a $17k/month business - csallen
https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/creative-tim
======
morgante
I really love these IndieHackers interviews but surprisingly find them
somewhat demotivating.

Even the more successful interviewees make less revenue per month than I can
make through straight consulting. And they're the success stories—most people
(including myself) make _far_ less per month from their products.

How do people keep motivated to work on side projects when consulting is so
much more profitable?

~~~
merpnderp
If you can make more than $17k/month from straight consulting, I would like to
subscribe to your newsletter please.

~~~
ffumarola
At a modest $200/hr, that's 85 hours. It definitely can be hard to line up
that much work month after month, but I've had a few months in a row where I
achieved that level of consulting revenue.

The key is to keep raising your rates.

~~~
zump
I'm a new grad, but since when do consultants get to charge > ~double the
hourly rate of what wages would be?

Did I miss the memo?

~~~
kleinsch
Happens all the time. As a consultant you're responsible for self employment
tax (7.5%), benefits, vacation, sick leave, etc. You also have no job
security, so you need to make enough that you can cover gaps in between gigs
that ended. You price it into your hourly rate accordingly.

So yes, your hourly rate is significantly higher than a comparable salaried
employee. No, you're not actually ending up with double the money at the end
of the day.

~~~
zump
How do I establish a background to be a profitable consultant?

\- Work at X company for Y years?

\- GitHub?

\- Networking?

~~~
patio11
The only thing you need to get paid (picking a number) $40,000 for solving a
business problem is to be able to sell a client you have identified on the
desirability of paying you $40,000 to solve a business problem. This is the
hardest thing for engineers to stomach about business. Being good at what you
do is table stakes for consulting; a major determinant of one's success is
one's ability to get good at selling.

There are ways to use OSS contributions or networking to assist in developing
that client and making that sale, but they are not required. "I worked 5 years
at Google" does not entitle one to a consulting gig.

------
rfrey
I devour indiehacker's interviews and I love the transparency - thanks to both
sides of the table.

According to the numbers here, 42% of the 17,000 monthly revenues are spent on
6 people. That's $1190 per person per month if everyone is paid equally.

Is everyone in Romania, and is that a living wage there? If not, how are your
employees making ends meet?

Edit: that last sentence sounds accusatory - I don't mean it to. I just mean:
do you have a strategy of part-timers who have other income streams, do you
take side contracts, etc.

~~~
eugeneionesco
>Is everyone in Romania, and is that a living wage there?

It's a very good living wage for Romania but low for what other IT people are
earning, ~$2k monthly.

~~~
kkt262
Why don't Romanians just get remote jobs?

~~~
alexbanks
Do you believe it to be that easy to get a remote job, such that all Romanians
can simply just "get" one?

~~~
elbear
It's not _easy_ , but you can do it. Source: I'm Romanian and I work remotely.
I found the job here in the monthly Who's Hiring thread.

~~~
alexbanks
My point was not "Romanians can't get remote jobs," but rather "It's not so
easy to get remote jobs that all Romanians can simply get a remote job."

~~~
elbear
It's as easy or as difficult as getting any other programming job. The more
you know your stuff and good English, the better the job you'll find.

------
axelut
Hi everybody, here is Alex, the co-founder of Creative Tim. Hope the
information from this interview will help you achieve more with your current
business or give you the courage to start your own business.

If you have any suggestions or feedback I would be glad to talk with you.

Best, Alex

~~~
wheelerwj
Hey Alex! Thanks for sharing about creative-tim!

You have an excellent business on your hands.

~~~
axelut
Thank you! Glad that you like it :D

------
gigatexal
17k a month is only 204k a year which is awesome don't get me wrong but I'm
not sure that supports 6 employees.

~~~
freyr
Average gross salary in Romania is $740/month, so $17k/month should be able to
pay 6 salaries.

------
ensiferum
With all these "success" stories flying about I'd absolutely love to know how
many losers there are for each "Creative Tim". 10x, 100x, 1000x ?

------
vyoming
They make great templates. We have used their chart templates in our BI tool -
[https://drilldb.com](https://drilldb.com)

Their pricing is also very affordable compared to many alternatives. You don't
have to think twice before making a purchase.

------
nkkollaw
I read some of the comments, many saying that $17,000/mo. isn't a lot of
money, but don't forget that Creative Tim is based in Romania.

Salaries in Romania aren't as good as in the States.

I'm currently based in Italy and a programmer can make as little as 1,200/mo.
(salaries in Italy are much higher than in Romania, possibly 100-200% more). I
make more than that freelancing, but I don't think 17,000/mo. is bad, both in
general and for a company based in Romania.

------
gfosco
This worked very well on me, as I just bought one of their developer licenses
for a pro package... Beautiful stuff.

------
wheelerwj
here's a link to the other HN thread with no comments or anything:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13272696](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13272696)

~~~
ensiferum
The indiehacker guy is known for aggressively beating his own drum and posting
and reposting his blog links.

Appears effective.

~~~
jasim
Speaking from personal experience - nothing magically happens even if you
create something valuable and put your heart and soul into it. You have to
beat that drum, even if you hate every note that comes out of it. Which is why
there are roles called Sales and Marketing. Being a salesman is an under-
appreciated, arduous but honorable job. They create mutually beneficial
relationships between parties that might otherwise never find each other.

~~~
ensiferum
Oh yes I know this. Sadly great products don't sell themselves, but proper
sales people can make shit sell like gold.

