
Calories Do Count - robg
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/dining/29calories.html?8dpc=&pagewanted=all
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jbert
So, are mandated calorie counts on foods, (evil) government intervention in
the free market or a useful boost to creating an efficient market by trying to
help create that essential prerequisite, the informed consumer?

Or both, I guess, since free market (buyer+seller do what they want) is
perhaps only tangentially related to perfect/efficient market (actors all
rational, perfect information).

Are their any parallels in the tech world (perhaps minimum specs/compatability
or age/content labelling on some software, i.e. games)?

Would it be useful if there was more pre-purchase consumer-level information
on software or tech products?

~~~
robg
I don't see why this type of government intervention should worry anyone. It's
about information transparency. Can anyone seriously argue that ingredient
labels are anti-market? There are also shelf tags, in supermarkets, dictating
price per quantity. How do any of those measures hurt the free market? If
anything, it forces food vendors to better evaluate their products in contrast
to their competition. And that seems to be exactly what's happening. A little
bit of transparency goes a long way. Seems to me, that's a perfect role for
government.

The government argument for me isn't all or none. It's: How much?

~~~
shawndrost
"I don't see why this type of government intervention should worry anyone."

Regulation disproportionately burdens small players. If other drafts of
restaurant legislation don't exempt small players, my favorite restaurants
(and my friends that run them) get a big headache.

Regulation seems to swell unless it is violently opposed. I've been locked out
of exciting things by it personally (international trade), and seen it killing
the things I love (eccentric houses, innovation, hiking trails) in my few
short years of adulthood.

I like this regulation. But I'm going to holler mightily if it tries to get
any bigger.

~~~
Retric
I think restaurants with 15 or more outlets stopped being the little guy a
while ago. There is a lot of poorly done regulation that hinders the little
guy but that's more an execution detail than a basic fault of regulation.

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terio
Check this talk about obesity and nutrition. Perhaps calories are not all the
same, depending on the source and how each different body metabolizes it.

[http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=2121...](http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details.php?webcastid=21216)

You can also research related subjects like glycemic index (or glycemic load),
metabolic syndrome, paleolithic diet, protein diets.

I have been avoiding concentrated carbs (bread, rice, potatoes, grains) for 2
months, with the occasional exception of dark chocolate bars, and I shed 10
pounds quickly. My weight stabilized already, I am lean, and my blood
chemistry is fine. I have a friend that has been the same for about the same
time with similar results. My girlfriend also has shed some pounds although
she is not that strict.

I have craved bread a couple of times. I avoided eating it and the craving
went away after eating.

A warning. Changing my life style this way has been a challenging at times.
Sometimes it is difficult to get enough of the stuff I eat in a regular
serving at public places. My meals are generally more expensive (health is
expensive), but I also eat nicer food.

~~~
jeremyw
Glad someone pointed to Taubes. What saddens me about the (reported) response
to calorie transparency's backlash is uniform fat reduction, instead of menu
options for different kinds of metabolism. My weight, for instance, happily
drops with insulin control. Without carbohydrates, I simply can't gain pounds.

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markessien
Maybe it's just me, but I really think people should focus more on just eating
more naturally and walking instead of driving or taking the train.

When I say natural food, I mean that you should avoid things like:

\- Cow Milk and diary products. It's for cows, not for humans

\- Fruit Juices/Soda and other sources of unnatural sugar

\- Oil

Stick with naturally human stuff like

\- Meat

\- Leaves and stuff made of leaves

\- Fruits (not fruit juice)

\- Nuts

I think one should just think before eating : if I were a caveman, how easy
would it be to make this thing? And if it would be pretty hard, then treat it
like a luxury, and eat sparingly. For example, chocolate.

~~~
kingkongrevenge
> Milk ... It's for cows, not for humans

This is one of the stupider points I keep seeing. At least some human
populations have been eating dairy products for over ten thousand years.
That's a serious chunk of human evolution. Only certain people should avoid
diary, but more commonly they'd be fine with fermented products and should
just avoid straight milk.

> Oil

Again, thousands of years of healthy people eating lots of olive and coconut
oil.

~~~
icey
What are your dietary credentials? Every time there's a remotely food related
post, you come in banging the "NO STARCH MOAR FATS" tambourine, and I'm
curious where your data comes from.

~~~
speek
I don't have any tangible credentials (read: I'm not a doctor), but my data
comes from being mildly obsessed about nutrition (heredity isn't on my side)
and from reading as much as I possibly can about nutrition (American Society
for Nutrition, the National Agricultural Library, etc). Plus, it helps that
I'm an engineer, I tackle most problems by amassing as much data as I can
before actually doing what I should be doing.

Carbohydrates are important... they just shouldn't be overdone. Especially the
refined ones. Milk = good, fruits = good, whole grain bread = decent,
Wonderbread = crap.

~~~
icey
Errr, I'm sorry Speek, I wasn't pointing my comment at you (I realize how it
could look that way due to the way comment parentage works here).

Kingkongrevenge has some.... interesting viewpoints on diet, so I was asking
him where he got his information; sorry for the confusion!

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maximilian
I count calories in the opposite direction. I usually buy the things that are
more calorie dense. Like I usually buy clif bar and related clif products
because they pack a lot of calories per bite with a relatively good effect on
my blood sugar.

I've started eating extra pb&j's at school/work to make it through the day. I
struggle to eat enough good food because of my demanding days and low student
income. It can be difficult to pack 500+ calories of snacks to make it through
a long afternoon. Do other people have this problem?

------
wallflower
Some of our ancestors had a meat-and-potatoes type diet and some of us still
eat the same. However, a lot of our ancestors worked in the fields and did
physical labor (to burn off those calories)

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kingkongrevenge
I don't think people should count calories. Your sense of hunger and satiety
accurately tells you how many calories you need if you're eating properly. If
you eat a 1,900 calorie lunch you're just not going to be hungry in the
evening and things will net out.

The main reason hunger as a guide breaks down and people feel the need to
count calories is a poor diet, usually heavy with starch and light on
saturated fats. You also see a lot of people religiously following a meal
schedule. If you're not hungry, don't eat! Skip meals occasionally. People
just don't listen to their bodies.

~~~
robg
Someone who's fifty pounds overweight still has strong biochemical urges to
eat though they may not need to. Aren't they listening to their bodies?

More problematic is the evidence that suggests that eating changes the brain.
Sure, some of that is cultural. But most of that is physical including
emotional needs.

~~~
kingkongrevenge
They have the urge to eat to excess because: their endocrine system is all
wacked up from too much starch and from a lack of fasting periods (they eat
too frequently; the body is meant to go the odd 12 hour stretch without food),
mineral and vitamin malnutrition create hunger, and sedentism. If you fix the
diet appetite will usually work fine.

A pure calorie counting approach is surely doomed to failure, anyway. Hunger
is far too powerful a motivator. You have to fix the appetite first.

~~~
mlinsey
I just started the Hacker's Diet 3 weeks ago
(<http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/>), which is basically calorie counting.
Although I'll obviously hold final judgment until I am able to reach my goal
weight and hold it for a long period of time (considering how overweight I am,
this will probably take around a year), I'm pretty convinced already that it
will work.

I'm convinced not because of the measly five pounds I've lost so far (I know
all too well how easy that can come back), but because of the change in my
habits that I've noticed. I used to eat until full. Now that I'm calorie
counting (and actually maintaining a pretty large calorie deficit), I finish
eating what I planned to and feel a strong urge to eat more, but five minutes
after stopping I realize I'm actually not hungry. I haven't had strong hunger
in between meals since day 3 or 4 of the diet.

I should also note that I'm eating basically from the same two food groups I
was before, namely processed/junk food and lots of carbs. I know that's it's
own problem, but for me the idea of giving up baguettes is way more
unthinkable and would require way more will power than simply eating less.

I recognize not everyone who is overweight is so for the same reasons I am.
But for me, clearly portion control was an issue. Hopefully this can take me
all the way to my goal weight, because honestly this has been a really
painless process. If not, and I stall somewhere above it, I'll consider
increasing my workout regimen and/or changing what I eat.

