
Smart license plate frame that prevents you from getting a ticket - jamesbritt
http://www.nophoto.com/
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nekojima
This product would be handy on toll roads that use cameras to bill you. Like
the 407 in Ontario.

My somewhat educated guess is that the product would very likely be illegal
because the flashes intentionally obscure the license plate from being
recorded and that is the part of the laws in most states, provinces and
countries this falls foul of. Most of the laws are written in such a way to
say that any attempt to obscure the license plate is illegal. That is usually
meant to suggest mud, various coverings and so on, but can depending on the
specific law, mean any attempt by you the owner or driver of the vehicle to
obscure in anyway, the recording of the license plate by authorized agencies
or companies.

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ortusdux
A friend of mine and I planned to do something similar. The city put a camera
in near my house that was rather annoying. Our plan was to rig up a laser,
photo receptor in a tube, and a battery, and bury them in a planter near the
light. Aim the tube at the flash, aim the laser at the lens, and over expose
every picture. I figured that it would be next to impossible to find and the
battery would last for months, but we couldn't get around the fact the city
did a great job maintaining those planters.

~~~
jrockway
_city did a great job maintaining those planters_

Chicago?

When I lived there, I often fantasized about getting one of those super-sticky
stickers (apparently the Post Office gives them out for free) and sticking it
on the camera lens. If only I had a ladder.

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petercooper
"Forever" is hyperbole. I don't know about the US but digital cameras with no
flash (or infrared illumination, specifically to avoid visual light
overexposure problems) are becoming common here in the UK.

Also if the camera taking the picture has a shutter speed faster than the time
it takes this system to respond, it'll get a picture before the defensive
flash occurs. They do claim the noPhoto is fast enough but it would take
testing against actual, regulation speed cameras to come close to guaranteeing
that.

~~~
weaksauce
The system could take a series of pictures sans flash leading up to an
infraction and then if there was an infraction store the lead up pictures as
well as the infraction. Unless there is some esoteric law on the books about
needing to catch the speeder/redlight evader on camera as it happens this
would basically defeat the "evasion"

~~~
MattGrommes
Some of these systems use a Tivo-like system where they're constantly
recording, then when triggered they section off a few seconds. This allows the
person reviewing it to find the best view of the plate.

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andreasvc
This will get banned in no time. In my country (the Netherlands) even passive
radar detectors are banned, let alone actively jamming these things.

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blhack
Is there _anybody_ not profiting off of these cameras that supports them?

This type of thing is so disgusting to watch. Everybody hates these, yet
they're implemented anyway.

~~~
nostromo
I do support red light cameras. Mostly because I'm a pedestrian that listens
to music when walking around town. I have nearly been hit by careless drivers
on more than one occasion.

However, I think they should be more lenient on drivers that just barely
infringe on a red light by a few milliseconds. And I think they should never
be used to ticket speeders. Obviously, I also don't support shortening yellow
lights to rake in more ticket dollars.

~~~
mistercow
>I do support red light cameras. Mostly because I'm a pedestrian that listens
to music when walking around town. I have nearly been hit by careless drivers
on more than one occasion.

Then you should not support red light cameras. Instead, you should support
longer yellow lights, or accelerating to beat them.

Studies have pretty well nailed down that traffic light cameras do not reduce
accidents. Any benefit they have as a deterrent is canceled by drivers
slamming on the brakes at yellow lights.

Worse, many local governments have been caught illegally shortening yellow
lights to increase ticket revenue from traffic light cameras. That's
particularly awful because increasing the duration of the yellow light has
been shown to be one of the most reliable ways to reduce traffic light
accidents.

~~~
mistercow
Wow, I should not edit comments when I'm that tired. I added ", or
accelerating to beat them" to the wrong line that ended with "yellow lights".

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jrockway
Even as someone who wants to see law enforcement crack down harshly on unsafe
driving, I highly approve of this. Speed cameras were a great idea that failed
because of greedy vendors (and greedy municipalities). The cameras should
encourage good behavior, not shake down average drivers. (And, the vendor
should get one fee for building the thing, not a percentage of each ticket
given.)

My design would have used something like an LCD in front of the license plate.
When near a camera, turn dark. Otherwise, stay clear.

~~~
ceejayoz
> My design would have used something like an LCD in front of the license
> plate. When near a camera, turn dark. Otherwise, stay clear.

Your design would likely be illegal, whereas this one probably isn't. Yet.

~~~
Evbn
Judges don't have any patience for technicalities in matters of fact.

~~~
jrockway
Of course, it's hard to track down cars with no license plates...

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motoford
This might save you a few tickets, but it sets you up for a much more serious
charge when you are caught. Ask all the sportbikers who have been caught with
flip-up tags.

It _is_ cool though...

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neotek
I wonder how it looks when you're driving behind someone with one of these and
it goes off. Would it be powerful or surprising enough to distract a driver or
cause a temporary blind spot?

Also, I'm surprised there are no provisions in the legislation to make illegal
any system that would render speed cameras ineffective. Why would laws be
written without those provisions?

~~~
Evbn
The cameras themselves have blinding flashes in some municipalities.

~~~
cynix
Yes but their flashes come from the back, not directly in your eyes.

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pravda
"He's using Indiegogo to try to raise $80,000 in order to get the device
certified by Underwriter's Laboratories." First of all, there's absolutely no
need for UL certification for a product like this.

Unless what they are talking about is FCC certification which costs a lot less
than $80K.

Second of all, this would be made illegal in a New York minute. To a
politician, money==power and they get all pissy when you interfere with a
revenue stream.

In the New York area, some 'red light cameras' are still cameras, but some
actually record video as well. When you get the ticket they give you a URL and
you can view the video of your car.

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nwj
Reminds me of the scramble suits from A Scanner Darkly.

As government surveillance technologies improve, the anonymity (and
accompanying privacy) that once accompanied some areas of public life is at
risk.

Public opposition to that trend has largely come in the form of calls for
better legal protections. However, my suspicion is that ultimately it will be
the arms race between surveillance technologies and technologies like this
product that determine what happens to public anonymity.

~~~
tsieling
Surveillance that is only triggered by a (dangerous) infraction is a far cry
from the kind you read about in dystopian novels, or the newspaper for that
matter.

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VBprogrammer
At least in the UK this would set you up for an attempting to pervert the
course of justice charge. Not very clever.

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Karunamon
All the hate for these cameras is pretty much justified, but all that said,
there's still a 100% foolproof way to avoid getting a ticket from a speed
camera.

It rhymes with "Won't Screed"

~~~
adamzochowski
Why is the hate for cameras justified? There are two proper solutions:

1\. if road is unsafe beyond certain speed, then better drive safe at the
prescribed limit

2\. if road has artificially lowered speed, then just get the legal speed
increased

These license plate hiding technologies are a poor solution to real problem:
people driving recklessly, and laws being too strict.

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Jon_at_noLimits
Hi all,

I'm Jon, inventor of the noPhoto. I was a bit shocked to login and find 14,000
views to our website today, and that a lot of them came from here! Thanks to
all of you for your support. I figured I'd clear up a couple of points while
I'm here.

1\. The noPhoto does react more than fast enough. The shutter speed of the red
light camera is actually irrelevant when dealing with optical slave triggers,
technology which has been used in the photography world for a long time.

2\. The noPhoto does defeat multiple pictures at once, and it does work in the
daytime. I can't post a link here, but if you go to our youtube channel you
can see a video we shot to show it working under a few different conditions.

3\. Most studies that are not funded by the red light camera companies show
that these cameras actually increase both overall accidents as well as injury-
causing accidents.

4\. We do not support running red lights intentionally. The noPhoto is not
meant to enable irresponsible drivers to blow through intersections with
impunity - rather, the hope is that by installing a noPhoto, drivers will
drive as they did before the dangerous red light cameras were installed.

If there's any other questions you have, feel free to ask. Thanks!

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nowarninglabel
This is quite neat. First thing I've said "wow" to in a while on HN. How do
you think municipalities will react? I imagine they will pass laws against
these sorts of devices.

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switz
I had this idea quite a while ago after watching a Mythbusters episode during
which they attempted to beat a speed camera. The only solution was making a
second plate mechanically fall over the real plate. I had planned on using
infared LEDs which ran off of the car's battery. Only cameras would pick them
up.

It's awesome to see this actually being implemented and sold. Even though I
had absolutely nothing to do with this, it's cool to see the product come to
life.

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Jon_at_noLimits
Also, one more thing to point out is that the noPhoto never obscures the
license plate to the naked eye. You can always see the plate even while it's
going off. In fact, the noPhoto doesn't even technically run afoul of
municipal traffic codes by obscuring cameras - it specifically only obscures
cameras with flashes. That level of specificity is something that our
attorneys haven't seen legislated - charges would be thrown out in a
heartbeat.

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zensavona
I don't like speed cameras any more than anyone else - but the fact that it's
legal to obviously evade laws with technology means that either there's
something seriously wrong with the government/laws and that needs to change,
or if we all agree that these laws are for the greater good (we don't seem to)
then products like this shouldn't be legal.

Just my irrelevant 2c.

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raleec
I always wanted to have a lcd plate cover that would blank out alternate sides
at a high enough frame rate that the naked eye would see nothing, but a camera
would never catch all of the numbers... then I realized that it's a lot easier
to just put a bike carrier or something on the back of the car.

~~~
Evbn
Wait till you see these new video-type cameras coming out.

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w1ntermute
This is an amazing idea. So simple, yet so effective. I'm surprised someone
didn't come up with this years ago.

~~~
mkramlich
I thought of this, as well as other similarly goal-ed techniques, many many
years ago. But didn't pursue it because wasn't worth the hassle of legal risk.
Seemed pretty clear to me that it would be either (a) illegal, or (b) made
illegal at some point. Not worth the bother. So many other great ideas out
there.

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portlander52232
I take it none of the creator's loved ones have been hit by a reckless driver.
This device exists solely to let dangerous child-men go on with no
accountability for their actions.

Queue reckless endangerment suit in 5... 4...

~~~
Karunamon
This is precisely the kind of appeal to emotion that needs to be removed from
all lawmaking.

And it's "cue".

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baddox
Do all traffic cameras use a flash, even in daylight, and if so, why?

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ams6110
Flash "freezes" the image to allow for a clear picture.

~~~
baddox
Sure, a flash would definitely help with a slow shutter, but I would think it
wouldn't be too difficult or expensive to have a camera with a sufficiently
fast shutter to capture moving cars in daylight without too much motion blur.

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monkeypizza
Before police got into traffic enforcement, the average citizen would have had
very little interaction with them.

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ams6110
License plates will have RFID tags soon, won't even need cameras.

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Koldark
Has this been submitted to the MythBusters yet???

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Laremere
And banned in 5...4...3...2...

