
Ninja Sphere: Next Generation Control of Your Environment - pjl
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ninja/ninja-sphere-next-generation-control-of-your-envir
======
Amadou
I don't see mention either way of subscription/cloud requirements. If it isn't
fully self-contained, then the risks out-weigh the benefits.

Edit: Drilling down to the ninja blocks pages I see mention of a "ninja cloud
account" as being required to install drivers. That sort of unnecessary
external dependency is a deal-breaker for me, essentially negating the entire
value proposition of open-source.

[http://ninjablocks.com/blogs/how-to/9555237-installing-
drive...](http://ninjablocks.com/blogs/how-to/9555237-installing-drivers-on-
your-ninja-block)

~~~
nitrogen
Mandatory cloud connectivity is detrimental to the usability and security of
an automation system. I, for one, will never add non-optional cloud features
to my own automation products.

Some day I want to see more systems with a decentralized architecture, where
cloud servers, if used at all, only help facilitate a secure VPN connection
between the user's device (e.g. a phone) and the user's home network.

~~~
amirmc
I'm working with others on a FOSS toolstack that makes it easier to build
decentralised systems. Take a look and let me know what you think.
[http://nymote.org/](http://nymote.org/)

~~~
Amadou
All I get is a spinning blue dot. Your site is unfriendly to people who take
their security seriously. That's not a good sign.

~~~
amirmc
Thanks for the feedback. I don't understand your second comment though, how is
it 'unfriendly to people who take their security seriously'? You can email me
instead, if you prefer.

~~~
Amadou
Pjc50 is correct. Practically every browser exploit over the last decade has
had javascript as an essential component. Forcing users to enable javascript
to use a site is a bad idea because it makes them more vulnerable. Javascript
should be a last resort to provide necessary functionality that is impossible
to do in any other way. If you want to use javascript for frills, that's fine
as long as the frills don't become obstacles if javascript is disabled.

To put it into perspective, NoScript is the 4th most popular add-on to
firefox.

[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/extensions/?sort=us...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/extensions/?sort=users)

Software like what you are developing needs to be designed with a strong
security mindset from the beginning. It is a truism in the industry that
security tacked on after the fact never works very well. I was extrapolating
from the security naivete of your website design to the likely naivete of your
software design.

~~~
amirmc
Thanks, this is a helpful explanation. The site came from a template and I
didn't think too long about the issue you mention (but I agree it's important
[1]).

Regarding your final para, please be assured that the folks working on the
software are 'best-in-class' and do have a strong security mindset as well as
a deep background in internet systems. The software is the output of research
work being done in the University of Cambridge and I made the site to try and
showcase the work and provide more context around it. The front-end of the
site may be lacking but that shouldn't reflect on the software we're making
(though I do understand why people extrapolate).

[1]
[https://github.com/nymote/nymote.github.io/issues/10](https://github.com/nymote/nymote.github.io/issues/10)

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quarterto
Hoo boy. This displays some of the worst excesses of infographic tyranny. Just
look at
[https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/309/747/c057b01519ab...](https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/309/747/c057b01519ab599418070daa91243df9_large.png?1384156291).

Just look at it.

The fuck is wrong with a goddamn _timeline_?

Aside from that the device looks pretty cool, although it's only really useful
if you buy a whole bunch of other smart devices.

~~~
jere
That's just awful. You have to look in 4 different places to understand one
data point.

If they _really_ wanted to use a circle, why not a curved timeline? I've
actually always visualized the calendar year as an oval. It would be so much
clearer if the months were points on a circle.

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Pitarou
Will it ninja-proof my home? Because we have a real ninja problem in my
neighbourhood. Anything that can keep them under control gets my vote.

(Sorry. I'm just sick of this ninja-meme. I'm sure it's a wonderful product,
and all that, but using ninjas to sell home-automation??)

~~~
Spoygg
I kinda connect it with Ninja-like capability of sensing environment
conditions :) (in this case)

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dangrossman
I'm digging all the new home automation stuff that's been coming out the past
few years. I've slowly been starting my own collection of networked sensors
and controls, reverse engineering the various protocols, and adding them to a
custom dashboard. It's voice controlled (Chrome has a speech input JS API
built-in now that makes building that easy), and responds to voice commands
with dialogue from Star Trek LCARS responses (sound clips taken from the show
and cleaned up). Lots of fun.

[http://i.imgur.com/G4SYEiJ.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/G4SYEiJ.jpg)

~~~
alexhawdon
That's fantastic! Do you speak into your smartphone or have you rigged your
home for sound?

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jimmcslim
If your smart power socket blocks access to the neighbouring socket on a two-
socket wall plate I hope the gods of product design SMITE YOUR DESIGN TEAM
WITH GREAT VENGEANCE.

Please. Slim the design down if necessary.

~~~
malandrew
Buy the "Ziotek ZT1212590 Flat 18-Inch Power Strip Liberator, 5-Pack" on
Amazon.com. They are awesome for solving this problem. I'd post a link, but I
know commercial links are frowned upon.

I'm still blown away that no one out there sells solid like 3 inch extension
cords. I'd buy them in a second. It would also be awesome if they came in a
3-1 variety like in this image:

[http://www.ac-
powercord.com/products_img/UL_3_Conductor_with...](http://www.ac-
powercord.com/products_img/UL_3_Conductor_with_3_Outlet_Extension_Cords.jpg)

~~~
dangrossman
Wal-Mart has 8-inch ones in 3-packs (in store for like $6), which are actually
just long enough since 1.5" on each end is the plug itself.

[http://i.imgur.com/B4Tg2rP.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/B4Tg2rP.jpg)

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dmd
I watched the entire video and I still have no idea what it is or does.

~~~
thatguydan
Dan from Ninja here. That's what happens when you try and explain something
geeky to a broad audience... but for the techies...

It's a powerful (same chip as beaglebone black) ARM computer with WiFi, BLE
and ZigBee radios. Runs ubuntu. Everything open source. Almost all Node.JS.

It uses open source drivers to connect to devices and learns how they operate,
building a model. If something is out of place, it notifies you and gives you
context aware control. For example if nobody is at home and the heater is on,
it will alert the last person to leave and give them the option to turn it
off.

Key new tech is positioning with little USB powered dongles placed around your
house and Leap-motion style (but simpler, no 3d hands) gestures for
controlling lights, temp, etc.

Everything the NinjaBlock did, but all built-in (no more dongles for wifi
etc).

Hope that clarifies a bit!

~~~
malandrew
You actually did a pretty good job with the copy right below the video, "Next
generation control of your [home or office] with accurate in-home location
data and a gesture control interface.". You should have focused on what it can
do now and the vision of what it could become and then spent the second half
on the open source aspects of it.

You could have also added a steady cam scene following someone around their
home and watching their environment change with them. e.g.

Someone is sitting on the bed reading a book and the nightstand light is on.
They get up and move to the door and lighting comes on in the hallway as they
walk towards the kitcken lights turn on behind them until they get to the
kitchen and get a snack. Then reserve the process until they get back to the
bedroom.

This kind of stuff looks like the perfect application for Prolog. There are a
lot of predicates to satisfy when determining when a nightlight should be
turned on or the overhead light or whether to turn on music in the living room
or not.

~~~
groby_b
Yay, home automation in prolog. Answers each and every request with "No.".
Can't wait ;)

~~~
timje1
If I remember the runtime efficiency of prolog correctly, you might just have
to wait :)

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agentultra
The reward tiers make it sound like the optimum operating environment is a
single-floor apartment. I live in a three-floor house with a basement. I use a
single base station that covers my entire house. The reward tier that adds a
second floor sounds like a lot of equipment... what's the challenge there and
why is it so much more? Is there a square-footage per way-point estimate?

I love the idea and have been experimenting with my own designs but haven't
imagined doing the positioning stuff in such a sophisticated way (let alone
gesture controls... voice commands work for me so far). I'd love to pitch in
on a project like this and let someone else do the work better than I ever
could in my spare spare-time. I'm just curious if by "home," you mean, "tiny,
controlled environment," like a condo or something.

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alexhawdon
Am I correct in thinking that EasyBulb, MiLight and LimitlessLED are all the
same product but rebranded? What are your experience with these products? They
seem like a very reasonably-priced alternative to Philips Hue but I'm
concerned I might be getting into a 'buy cheap, pay twice' situation.

Similarly, are there any inexpensive but decent smart plug sockets available?
(I should note that I'm in the UK, but I'm sure other readers would welcome
US-specific solutions.)

And, same question for BLE tags - below ~£10 a tag would be awesome.

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frozenport
I don't believe the form factor makes much sense because it appears to take up
more space then required and doesn't look like it has room for any indicator
panels. Can we have a box?

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nitrogen
Ninja Sphere looks very cool, particularly the RF-based location. Everyone
who's ever lost their remote control wants a way to find it, or just do away
with it entirely. It seems this could do both. The future of home automation
is in ambient intelligence; things behaving correctly without user
intervention.

[Obligatory self-promotion:] If you're planning on upgrading to the XboxOne,
have an old Kinect lying around from your 360, and want to get a small part of
the way right now to where these guys will get you in June, please check out
the link to my startup in my HN profile.

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wavesounds
I think this is a cool idea and I'm pretty sure something like this will exist
in the future.

Can we all agree though that its time to start phasing out the use of the word
'Ninja' with everything? How about 'Ranger Sphere' or 'Knight Sphere' or just
'The Sphereamid' \- thats a pretty neat word you guys came up with, go with
it, enough with the 'Ninjas'

~~~
timdorr
Their company name is Ninja Blocks. It makes perfect sense for them to build
on that brand and put forth an association to carry along good will for this
new project. They're not just calling it "Ninja" because they think it sounds
cool.

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schappim
This is a great example of how open source hardware can be sexy.

~~~
pit
Case in point:

[http://monome.org/aleph-detail/](http://monome.org/aleph-detail/)

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joshdance
I didn't realize having your wine moved was a pain point.

~~~
alexhawdon
I guess you don't have teenage children and serious wine collection. Or an
imagination.

