

Gnome removes maximize and minimize buttons from program windows. - recoiledsnake
https://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/where-did-the-buttons-go/

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naner
This is hard to make sense of without knowing how the redesigned Gnome 3
desktop looks and works. You can get an idea on their website:

<http://www.gnome3.org/>

<http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/>

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X-Istence
I really don't use the maximise button ever, then again it is generally
considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway.

Now, a minimise button I do use, and my windows neatly get hidden away behind
the icon they belong to (it's an option in OS X and I love it). Now, when I
move my mouse to a corner of my desktop and activate exposé I get to see all
of these windows as thumbnails.

Removing minimise is in my opinion definitely disruptive, sometimes it is nice
to clear all the windows off the screen, using different workspaces is not
always the right answer.

I assume that the overview they are talking about (and having read the linked
email) looks and acts like Exposé does on the Mac, while nice, a lot of full
screen applications and it becomes difficult to select the right window
because the thumbnails get too small. The suggestion offered in the email
looks a lot like what Mac OS X does.

I do hope that when Gnome 3.x is available in your standard Linux
distributions that turning the minimise button back on is available.

~~~
rbanffy
> it is generally considered "broken" in Mac OS X anyway.

It was broken since... System 6, at least

> Now, a minimise button I do use

It's useful if you have stuff on the desktop (like I do). If the desktop is
nothing but wallpaper space, then minimizing windows make little sense - just
get your windows on the front (which is hard to do without a dock)

I like the drag to snap option. I only hope Gnome folks don't accidentally
step on a patent land mine laid by those free-software lovers at Microsoft.

~~~
X-Istence
> It's useful if you have stuff on the desktop (like I do). If the desktop is
> nothing but wallpaper space, then minimizing windows make little sense -
> just get your windows on the front (which is hard to do without a dock)

At times (especially at work) I will have many different windows open at the
same time. Exposé at that time will become very cluttered and it will be very
hard to find the window I want, minimising removes that because now the
windows I do want are bigger than the small minimised ones.

From looking at more screenshots from Gnome 3 it looks like their "activities"
overview is a lot like Exposé.

~~~
rbanffy
I tend to have them maximized, which blocks the clutter, but, then, the
maximize (or "let me focus on this") button never worked properly in Macs.
This is somewhat addressed with the full-screen apps on Lion.

When I have to use more than one window, I use the "Always on top" option on
the WM. Since it's usually a terminal, I can make it small and leave it near a
corner or on another screen.

Having said that, Xcode seems fond on lots of windows. I don't think my
approach would work.

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acabal
I was on the fence as to whether Gnome 3 looked good or not, and this change
drops me in to the "don't want to try it" camp. I don't like Unity either (and
I _have_ tried that one)... so now will I have a choice when running Ubuntu? I
really hope someone maintains the old Gnome-panel system so that I can somehow
graft it into future distro releases.

I use Ubuntu on my work laptop. I need to be productive on my work computer,
and I just don't have the time or inclination to futz around with drastically
changed desktops and unlearn 15 years of muscle memory and comfort level. My
computer needs to be familiar and simple to me so that I can spend time
building and deploying apps, not trying to remember how to minimize a window
or what hotkey is the 'switch workspace' key (since I don't use even them
right now).

~~~
nickbp
You might want to try out one of the other WMs, whether thats KDE or something
less well known like xfce or openbox. I've myself been using gnome just about
continuously since early 2.x and I may end up switching to something else as
well. A nice thing with Linux is there's always a million alternatives, giving
you a good chance of finding a close approximation to what you're looking for.

Also, something I've found _extremely_ useful at both work and home is the
compiz "Grid" plugin, which allows you to set up easy keyboard shortcuts for
window placement. I think it can be found in "compiz-fusion-plugins-extra" on
bunters. A video of it in action: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHMKhiZmlV0>

~~~
trotsky
KDE 4.5+ has really come into its own, I highly suggest trying it out - I've
been using it as my desktop for over a year now, and I've never looked back.
One not very strong point is the KDE 4 application launcher, I'd suggest using
a dock like cairo or you can configure the old gnome like launcher behavior to
be default. I'm not sure how kubuntu looks, but fedora 14 and opensuse 11.4
both provide great kde experiences.

~~~
mickt
Old KDE fan where, moved from KDE to Gnome, then back and using Gnome for
about 4 or 5 years now.

Last week I tried KDE 4.5.1 that comes with Ubuntu (I do so every now and then
to see if I'll move back). After 30 minutes of trying to get Network Manager
to start a VPN connection, and Googling for answers and reading the docs, I
gave up and started the VPN connection from the command-line.

Now, I'm confused, how hard can it be to start a VPN connection? I clicked, I
right-clicked, I reapplied the settings. Or it so simple that this long-time
user can't figure it out?

~~~
trotsky
knetworkmanager having a bug doesn't shock me, though my VPN seems fine in
fedora 14 / kde 4.5.5. I did once have to start a wireless network from the
command line after knm just refused. While not ideal, I'm sure you could run
gnome's nm-applet instead - I don't think your vpn issue is indicative of a
general kde quality issue, though everyone has their own standards. openSUSE
11.4 will be out on the 10th - it might be worth trying their livecd for a
polished kde-centric view. I feel like Canonical commits most of their
resources to their gnome build.

~~~
mickt
I'm thinking of just going back to old friend Debian (which I run on my
Desktop). Ubuntu almost seems to be trying to be so friendly to newbies that
it just gets in my way.

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personalcompute
This is a huge change and whether it is better or not, it won't overcome the
aversion to such a dramatic change in something most people find so
fundamental.

Regardless, I'm glad to see innovation in linux gui and expect it will be
disableable through some hack or another.

~~~
rbanffy
> I'm glad to see innovation in linux gui

I am glad we are seeing some change. We have been stuck with the same windows
on a desktop metaphor since the Lisa. I understand this, at least, means
someone is trying something new.

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mmastrac
I thought this was silly until I read the article - as pointed out, the
maximize function isn't being removed at all. Only the maximize button, which
is an arguably terrible UI for the action, is being dropped in favor of
dragging windows to the top of the screen.

Minimize, however, is being dropped because there's just nowhere to minimize
too. I rarely use minimize and this wouldn't be a big deal for me.

~~~
recoiledsnake
Minimize is also not being removed,you can do it via short cuts or right click
menu.

~~~
mmastrac
Good to know, thanks. It appears that all they've done here is change the
surface UI to make it lighter-weight by not doing things just because they've
always been done. Makes sense to me.

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junklight
new devices are going to change the way we use our windowing managers. For
example on my air things close and open so fast I try to close most things
(especially those that remember their state) when I'm not looking at them - I
don't minimise I close.

Looking at the gnome 3 design can't help wondering if someone shouldn't be
thinking of putting it on a tablet eventually (or rather working on a tablet
directed branch) - might meet the "open" needs of hackers more than android.

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bryanlarsen
This will probably be much like the Ubuntu "buttons on the left" event. Lots
of whining before the change, and not a peep afterwards.

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simonhamp
Thieving garden midgets...

