
I Was a Political Prisoner at Birth in North Korea - followingell
http://www.northkoreanrefugees.com/2007-09-atbirth.htm
======
rangibaby
Recently, I went on a bit of a North Korea-related reading binge. One thing I
read really stuck with me:

The first time I took the DMZ tour from the South, and on some tours since,
the US soldier leading the tour would tell everyone we weren't looking at a
real building. Instead the North's building was "a facade designed to look
large and impressive, but is in reality only a frame a few feet (one meter)
thick."[1]

...followed by a photo of the author sitting inside the very real, functional
building during his trip to the North Korean side of the border.

It woke me up to the reality that North Korea is so opaque, that there is
really no way of knowing the truth of what you read or hear about the country;
the official line from both "our" and "their" sides is not much other than a
steady stream of propaganda.

That being said, I believe Shin's experience (I originally wrote story, but
felt that it was disrespectful) is authentic, and the continuing existence of
concentration camps in this 21st century is yet another black mark on
Humanity's record.

[1] Highly recommended: <http://1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-
trip6-dmz.htm~mainframe>

~~~
bane
One thing that's fun in this day and age is that you can actually check out
the buildings from space!

[https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panmunjeom,+Kaesong,+North+Ko...](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panmunjeom,+Kaesong,+North+Korea&hl=en&ll=37.956059,126.677991&spn=0.00349,0.006968&sll=38.003385,-79.420925&sspn=7.139614,14.27124&oq=panmun&t=h&hq=Panmunjeom,+Kaesong,+North+Korea&z=18)

------
DavidChouinard
Shin recounts his experience in this incredibly touching and thought-provoking
60 minutes interview: <http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136263n>

Also, here are illustrations of a North Korean concentration camp by an
escaped prison: <http://imgur.com/a/648Mv>. Incredibly alarming.

~~~
jbm
I find it sad that after being basically treated like garbage by North Korean
society, "defectors" (I hesitate to use that term due to the negative
connotation, but can't think of anything else) like Shin wind up isolated
within South Korean society. It reaches the point where more than 1/3rd want
to leave SK.[1]

That one cannot escape an accident of birth is a huge blemish on humanity.

[1] <http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130207000854>

~~~
kamaal
Well its sad but not surprising. I mean look at it from a young South Korean's
perspective. There is a huge economic and many be now even a cultural gap
between them and the folks from the north.

For somebody young in South Korea, a North Korean is somebody who shares his
mother tongue in a different dialect- nothing much apart from that. By now
North and South Korea are two very different countries, with many things being
different and few things being common.

When a refugee arrives they may not think of him/her as 'one of us'. More like
some troubled person from the neighboring country who will dilute/be a burden
on our culture economy.

------
meric
It's different to this one [http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-
from-a-nor...](http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-north-
korean-prison-camp-3549/)

The latter tells the story of how he betrayed his mother and brother. It is
omitted from the posted link.

Also in the latter story, he discovered Park died before he escaped, not the
other way around.

~~~
Osmium
I just read this whole story, and I can scarcely comprehend it's real. I just
don't quite know what to say. What are you meant to do when you read something
like that?

~~~
deliminator
One possibility is to inform yourself more.

FYI

The best resource I found so far is <http://www.dailynk.com/english/> . At
least one more story like the OP's can be found here
[http://www.dailynk.com/english/sub_list_last.php?page=1&...](http://www.dailynk.com/english/sub_list_last.php?page=1&cataId=nk02800)

There is an organization that tries to do something about this
<http://libertyinnorthkorea.org/> . They have some videos as well that are
worth watching <http://www.youtube.com/user/linkglobal>

~~~
InclinedPlane
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hyun_Hui>

------
btilly
A decade ago I worked with someone with the most amazing personal story. He
was born in a cattle car on the way to a concentration camp in WW 2.

He was a very, very religious Jew in all respects except one - he didn't
believe in God. It was an interesting combination.

~~~
arcatek
I don't understand, how is it even possible ?

~~~
vbtemp
Judaism it not a religion. It is a complex mix of culture, religion, language,
history, nationality, and ethnicity each to varying degrees. Being a Jew is
_never_ predicated on what you believe, athiests and believers -
traditionalists and liberals - are both jews to equal measure. There is such a
hodgepodge of viewpoints and movements that you will not have to dig long
before you find observant Jews who are skeptical about the existence of god -
or most likely just don't bother with that question.

~~~
olavk
Judaism _is_ a religion - it is the name of the religion of the jewish people.
But you can be jewish without adhering to judaism. And I suppose you can
follow the traditions and rituals of Judaism without believing in the
existence of God.

------
VexXtreme
What is happening in North Korea can only be summed up as epic fail at human
rights and people's right to free from an oppressive regime.

Maybe I don't quite understand how mass psychology works, but I know that the
population of the country is 24 million people and that the current system
probably doesn't benefit 99.9% of that population (the other 0.1% being the
regime members, for whom the whole thing works out just fine). Sorry for
pulling the numbers out of my ass, but I am trying to convey an idea here.

If that's the currently the case, then why wouldn't those 99.9% rise up and
overthrow the regime that oppresses them? Even the soldiers are most likely
normal people who have been conscripted at some point, why would they kill
their own neighbors, friends and family members in the case of such an
uprising? The people of North Korea have EVERY reason on this planet to
overthrow their "government", what's preventing them from doing so?

Like I said, I may be totally misunderstanding how mass psychology works in
dictatorships, but this kind of thing seems pretty logical to me, even a no-
brainer. Is it the lack of critical thinking? Critical mass? Inability to
build up that critical mass? If so, why? Do people there really rat on their
neighbors and family members like we often hear?

If I were a more dismissive person I would just say "They're just getting what
they're asking for", but I really want to understand how this works better, so
someone please enlighten me.

~~~
nirvana
North Korea is at the end state of socialism. Hayek wrote a famous book called
"The road to serfdom", and this prison camp, and the way the rest of NK
citizens live is the serfdom he's talking about.

Once you accept that you're owned by "society", and that everyone is
"responsible for the greater good" this is inevitably what you end up with.

You ask if they lack critical thinking or a critical mass. Both of these are
true, they've been indoctrinated to believe in this system, except maybe the
ones like the writer of this story who were born in a camp and got less
indoctrination.

The sad thing is, you can see this very same thing play out repeatedly in
history. The way the germans let the nazis take over, even after it was clear
they were up to no good. The way there was no revolution to overthrow the
soviet state in the USSR.

You see these same mechanisms happening here in america today-- people
claiming that "health care is a right" which is essentially saying they have
the right to enslave everyone else for their own benefit.

And there's the error- they think "the rich" or "everyone else" is going to be
forced to pay for their wellbeing, never realizing that they are calling for
their own enslavement.

Pair the idea that you have a "right" to make others pay for healthcare (and
other things) with the claim by these same people that you don't have a right
to self defense (eg: own guns.) The latter is even in the constituttion.

You'd think this would cause a dissonance in their head, but the party
ideology is so strong they never connect the two.

And when americans are being herded into camps, long disarmed, and forced to
work "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs"....
they will wish they still had guns.

Schools teach people to be compliant little sheep and have done so for over a
century, there's a distinct connection between government control over schools
and lack of critical thinking in the populace.

Unless things turn around soon, the US will end up in some sort of terrible
state. Not likely like North Korea or Nazi germany or the USSR, but we already
are suffering from the economic destruction of these kinds of policies (and
like NK citizens told to blame the US for their poverty, we're told to blame
wall street, germans were told to blame jews, russians were told to blame
"hoarders", etc. etc. etc.)

~~~
philbarr
> people claiming that "health care is a right" which is essentially saying
> they have the right to enslave everyone else for their own benefit.

No, it's saying that as a society we're not going to let people suffer and die
in the street when we have the technology and resources to help them. Probably
you'll believe in society a bit more if you're ever in a position where you
can't solve your problems yourself.

~~~
noarchy
I don't think that we can classify government programs as being charities.
Many of us believe in helping those who are in need, but for this was can give
our money and time freely to organizations that address certain issues.
Governments take your money by force, and spend it on things for which you
have no say. It isn't "society" doing it.

~~~
philbarr
> "spend it on things for which you have no say"

Yes you do, you have a vote. Each party standing for election presents a set
of policies some of which include spending policy. The elected party then has
a mandate to spend as per the policies outlined. That's how democracy works
(well, how it's supposed to work).

If you really had "no say" then that would be a dictatorship?

And let's think about this a little further. Let's say the government doesn't
take any money off you and everyone has to fend for themselves. Now, some
people with more money are in a position to manipulate those with less money,
and we are suddenly ruled by unelected corporations etc. Some argue it's like
that already.

This is all pretty standard left vs. right stuff.

~~~
noarchy
>Yes you do, you have a vote. Each party standing for election presents a set
of policies some of which include spending policy. The elected party then has
a mandate to spend as per the policies outlined. That's how democracy works
(well, how it's supposed to work).

The latter part of your statement is what I agree with. We all know the
theory, but we live the _practice_ of democracy. And some of us have gradually
quit buying into it.

>And let's think about this a little further. Let's say the government doesn't
take any money off you and everyone has to fend for themselves. Now, some
people with more money are in a position to manipulate those with less money,
and we are suddenly ruled by unelected corporations etc. Some argue it's like
that already.

I'd agree that it is essentially how things are already. The state-corporate
partnership is quite a beast. Political influence is bought and sold as easily
as stocks are.

>This is all pretty standard left vs. right stuff.

The left/right thing breaks down pretty quickly if you find that you loathe
all of the major political parties our time. If you're a classical libertarian
(or anarchist, depending on the term one prefers), for instance, there isn't a
major party for you almost by definition.

------
qschneier
Those who escaped from North Korea to China will be sent back by the Chinese
government if found and possibly executed. They are literally the most
miserable people on this planet. China could have become some west "North
Korea" (China is at the west of North Korea) if American hadn't killed
Chairman Mao's son during Korean War. For that I am really grateful to the US.
Life is not easy but it could have been much worse.

------
runn1ng
[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/books/escape-from-
camp-14-...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/books/escape-from-camp-14-by-
blaine-harden.html?_r=0)

“In writing this book, I have sometimes struggled to trust him,” Mr. Harden
writes understandably in “Escape From Camp 14.” Mr. Harden tries to fathom a
cryptic, troubled and not entirely sympathetic young man whose circumstances
lend themselves to exaggeration.

What’s more, the new book uses dialogue borrowed from Mr. Shin’s disingenuous
2007 version. “Escape From Camp 14” also includes simple line drawings (as Mr.
Shin’s book had) that give the most traumatic parts of his story — torture,
imprisonment, maiming, executions — the look of action comics. The most benign
of these pictures carries this caption: “Children in the camps scavenged
constantly for food, eating rats, insects and undigested kernels of corn they
found in cow dung.”

(...)

Mr. Shin did not spend his imprisonment missing love, joy, civilization or
comfort, because he had never experienced such things. As the spawn of a
“reward marriage” — considered “the ultimate bonus for hard work and reliable
snitching” — he had no real family ties.

The book says that he regarded his mother as a rival for food and was right to
do so; she once beat him with a hoe for eating her lunch. As a young child, he
saw schoolmates maimed or even killed for minor transgressions and he learned
to obey the camp’s totalitarian rules.

(...)

But “Shin’s misery never skidded into complete hopelessness,” Mr. Harden
writes in typically plain, forthright style. “He had no hope to lose, no past
to mourn, no pride to defend. He did not find it degrading to lick soup off
the floor. He was not ashamed to beg a guard for forgiveness. It didn’t
trouble his conscience to betray a friend for food. These were merely survival
skills, not motives for suicide.”

------
guelo
It doesn't seem moral that the world doesn't invade North Korea and put an end
to the insanity.

~~~
tptacek
More people would die if we did than if we don't. Seoul is one of the most
densely populated cities in the world, and it's extremely close to the border.

~~~
javajosh
Yes. Only the South Koreans can make that call, as they have the most to lose.
If they decided to invade, and asked for US assistance, I for one would
support that, to the extent of volunteering to fight.

Alas, from an historical standpoint, North Korea is a relatively small
aberration as long as it remains isolated and weak. The thing that I don't
understand is how such a repressive regime could possibly have developed
nuclear weapons. It seems somehow unfair, not to mention dangerous for the
rest of us, that advanced science can be done in such an environment. I've
always assumed that anyone smart enough to do such work would be smart enough
to refuse to do it. But I guess I am wrong.

~~~
revelation
I guess the technology was a handout from the Soviet Union. I can't fathom
that a country like North Korea would be capable of developing nuclear weapons
on their own, when a highly advanced country like Iran can't do it in this day
and age.

~~~
rdl
NK bought their nuclear technology from a Pakistani, who is currently living
comfortably in a house in Pakistan, protected by the Pakistani state (because
he also gave them nuclear capabilities). He stole a lot of the technology from
European companies where he worked. This guy (AQ Khan) provided resources to
Iran as well (directly and indirectly via NK).

The science isn't actually that hard (I'd feel comfortable I could
design/build a gun-type fission weapon myself, given budget and resources,
from open sources, with basic engineering education). The hard part is the
smuggling, front companies, etc. to get the equipment and materials.

I'm pretty sure by the time NK was looking at going nuclear, the SU wasn't
particularly happy with NK. NK was closer to China, and SU didn't really
support Chinese proliferation (there were substantial divisions on the SU-
China border, after all...)

China didn't really want NK to go nuclear, either.

------
deliminator
Google Tech Talk about Shin's story
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc>

------
dfc
Side Bar: Can anyone provide some context/background/explanation about the
north korean name / south korean name?

~~~
jevinskie
I wonder if the reason is related to the dialect differences between North and
South Korean. I recall that the North Korean dialect is "older".

~~~
alxndr
Not sure how much this explains about names in particular, but...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_differences...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_differences_in_the_Korean_language)

------
unimpressive
This is a cool version. If the simple English was changed a little and the
illustrations swapped for watercolor, this bone chilling tale could be
packaged as a sort of pseudo-childrens book.

~~~
scrumper
Something like 'When the Wind Blows' by Raymond Briggs (most famous for
writing 'The Snowman'.) It's extremely powerful. Your idea is excellent.

------
scoot
This version was posted a month ago, and discussed at length:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5091962> It contains some important
details that are missing from the version above, although any version of the
events is unverified.

~~~
followingell
Apologies, I didn't realise that a more detailed version had been posted at an
earlier date.

Thank you for sharing the in depth link.

~~~
scoot
No apology required; it's clearly a story of interest, or it wouldn't have
made the front-page again. I posted the link to the other version of the story
more for people to make a comparison of the two versions of events, and see
the related commentary.

------
altoz
Horrific story with what happens when you cross slavery and the holocost. That
said, don't be so sure we're much better. Here's North Korea's perspective of
what we're like.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NMr2VrhmFI>

------
reiichiroh
Contrast this to the brit tour guide who went to North Korea over 100 times:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18g7z1/i_have_been_to_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18g7z1/i_have_been_to_north_korea_over_100_times_ama/)

------
tterrace
The book is available from amazon here:
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670023329/> It's been on my list since I
saw his interview on CNN.

------
B0Z
Absolutely nothing I've read in the last decade exacerbates a feeling of
complete helplessness as much as this article (and 60 minutes video mentioned)
does.

------
stretchwithme
I wanna say "too sad; don't read". I can't read it right now. It was bad
enough scanning through the torture and executions.

One day, these people will be free. And we may develop the technology to do it
sooner than you think. I see the first wave of robots disabling their nukes.
And the second wave disabling every fence and gun.

------
nightbrawler
This guy was eventually adopted by a US family:
<http://www.northkoreanrefugees.com/2013-01-adopted.htm>

------
krschultz
I recently read Escape From Camp 14, I would highly recommend it.

------
white_devil
Humans are such _fucking sickening scum_. It saddens me to be part of the same
human race as the monsters running North-Korea.

------
patdennis
How did he know to escape to China? How did he know how to get there? I'm
genuinely curious.

~~~
unimpressive
[http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-
nor...](http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-north-korean-
prison-camp-3549/)

Another version that explains more.

SPOILER: Park told him about China. He didn't know how to get there.

------
lotsofcows
"by the grace of God" Mind. Blown.

------
notdrunkatall
The fact that these exist today are a giant pockmark on the face of humanity.

~~~
Ygg2
Usually tyrannies have a way of collapsing in on themselves. They weaken
social fabric, breeding dissent and allowing other states/factor to jump in
and conquer them.

~~~
cabalamat
> Usually tyrannies have a way of collapsing in on themselves.

Really? Pharonic Egypt lasted for 3000 years.

