
Rotterdam to consider trialling plastic roads - prawn
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/10/rotterdam-plastic-roads-trial-netherlands
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emp_zealoth
As a person that rides motorcycle avidly I'm always distressed when the most
important metric of a road gets a tiny mention, when discussing those new
technologies.

Traction. If it's not at least as good as current best asphalt then don't
bother.

Cities are already turning into motorcycle deathtraps, with all the "safety"
nonsense generously painted everywhere (Which is slippery as hell, even during
sunny weather)

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Zuikaku
Because motorcycles are the number one users of road? Because the enjoyment of
a small proportion of users outweigh whatever environmental and economic costs
of improving infrastructure?

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jdietrich
Motorcycles and bicycles have a vastly disproportionate impact on improving
traffic flow. As traffic density increases, two wheelers fill the gaps left by
cars, occupying effectively zero road space when traffic is completely
gridlocked. Bikes also occupy very little parking space - five or six
motorcycles can fit in the space of a single car.

As pvdebbe points out, motorcycles can be extremely fuel efficient. A 125cc
motorcycle or scooter can realistically achieve 90-100mpg. A small motorcycle
is much more economical to manufacture than a small car, with about a fifth of
the embodied energy. Modern bikes are equipped with catalytic converters and
have sophisticated engine management, so produce very low levels of local air
pollutants.

Two wheeled vehicles have an essential role to play in solving our current
transport problems.

[http://www.acem.eu/images/stories/doc/pressreleases/2011/PTW...](http://www.acem.eu/images/stories/doc/pressreleases/2011/PTW_Belgium_Study_FEBIAC_ENG.PDF)

~~~
Coding_Cat
Even if all of this is true and then some, it doesn't change the fact that
there are very little motorbikes on the road. Switching to these types of
roads, even if it were impossible to ride on for motorbikes might still be a
net positive for the environment.

~~~
contingencies
Not really. In much of Asia, which is most of the world's population, two
wheelers dominate. Traditionally bicycles, which was followed by motorbikes in
South and Southeast Asia and electric scooters in China.

There's a reason why they continue to dominate, and it's not just the cost of
cars (I've regularly seen people riding bicycles worth more than many people's
cars here in China) - it's because they're practical! Parking, repair,
exercise, lack of traffic congestion, etc.

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vacri
Note to marketing guys: find a better word than 'plastic'. You lose out
because it _sounds_ unenvironmental and is also associated with cheap, shoddy
products. Go for something like 'polymer' instead.

~~~
mulletbum
If he did that it would diminish the clicks for people who can associate
plastic with other items. I think very little people are associating polymer
to their pop bottles.

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ekianjo
Plastic in large quantities can become very, very expensive. It's cheap when
you make a bottle or any kind of thin package, but as measured in kg, plastics
are not cheap at all (but have interesting properties).

~~~
roel_v
Other articles about this made it sound like they'd use re-used, granulated
plastic, like that fished out of the ocean's 'plastic soups'. I don't know
anything about plastic manufacturing or chemistry, but that was supposedly one
of the big selling points - that the materials are cheap and needed to be
disposed of anyway, some way.

~~~
jkot
China buys used plastic for decent money.

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im3w1l
Wouldn't that leak significant amounts of endocrine disruptors into the
environment?

~~~
jrapdx3
Probably not. Endocrine disruptors in the environment can result from
degradation of certain polymers, releasing chemicals such as bisphenol-A
(BPA), phthalates and other compounds. For example, materials made with BPA
such as polycarbonates, are associated with endocrine disruption hazards,
particularly for children.

Generally food and beverage containers are made from polyethylene or
polypropylene because these plastics are very inert. They aren't made with
compounds associated with endocrine disruption.

Since the proposed roadways were going to use recycled polyethylene pop
bottles it shouldn't be a problem. However I'm skeptical about the idea on
other grounds, I have real doubts about factors like durability and cost.

~~~
im3w1l
This is a review of evidence on the subject:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854718/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854718/)

The road will be exposed to heat and sunlight both of which promote leaching.

~~~
estefan
Perhaps they'll lacquer it to prevent that.

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NextPerception
Plastic is not a sustainable nor cost-effective material to build roads out
of. I am a mechanical designer who designs with plastics daily. All plastic
polymer chains break down over time and there is no getting around it. Light,
thermal-variations, water-absorption, and mechanical stress can cause
microscopic polymer chains to break and this weakens the plastic. If you have
ever seen plastic that has become brittle with old age or sunlight you have
seen a perfect example of polymer-chain damage in plastics. The rate of
polymer chain breakage can be slowed down through various plastic formulations
but it can't be stopped, especially in an outdoor environment where it is
contending with wild temperature variations, water, oil, sunlight, and cars
driving on it.

So yes, lets make a road out of plastic, even though plastic is at it's
absolute worst under the stresses roads undergo. I will join the "when will
the road break" betting pool at 8 years and 2 months after the road is laid.

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UserRights
The Propaganda-Elephant in the Room: there is no such thing as "recycling
plastics" \- but still the word "recycling" is commonly used, even if the
described process very clearly is not about recycling. Obviously, this is a
downcycling process which will lead to dissolved plastic in the food chain
after a few decades, so this is far away from an ecologically sustainable or
clean solution, that might be acceptable for our next generations, it is plain
stupid.

The solution is to reglement plastic production to a set of about max. 50
different recipes for different applications that actually can be recycled.
Today we have thousands of patent-protected artificial substances called
"plastic" and the plastics lobby is extremely strong in suppressing any
discussion that goes into that direction.

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ArekDymalski
"It’s still an idea on paper at the moment; the next stage is to build it and
test it in a laboratory to make sure it’s safe in wet and slippery conditions
and so on"

EOT

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chiph
So these are produced in large panels, which are laid on a compacted roadbed,
or perhaps on concrete supports. The problem I see is that of the joints - as
cars & trucks drive over them, they'll flex the plastic, causing loud "thump
thump" noises.

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Tharkun
What's wrong with asphalt? It can be easily recycled, it's an otherwise pretty
useless component of crude oil of which we have plenty. It can be repaired
with relative ease.

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test1235
"...recycled plastic, which it said required less maintenance than asphalt and
could withstand greater extremes of temperature– between -40C and 80C. Roads
could be laid in a matter of weeks rather than months and last about three
times as long, it claimed."

"...asphalt is responsible for 1.6m tons of CO2 emissions a year globally – 2%
of all road transport emissions."

~~~
Tharkun
I don't buy the marketing blurn. How are potholes going to be repaired?

As for asphalt's CO2 footprint, that's the figure for asphalt mixed with
cement. Extracting asphalt and bitumens from crude oil is literally the bottom
of barrel.

Pardon typos, fat sausages on moving bus.

~~~
mulletbum
I think you're assuming it potholes in the same way as asphalt. Even if it
did, it would be repaired most likely the same way potholes are repaired
today, by infection new plastic into the hole and forming the previous layer
to it, just like we do with asphalt today.

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amelius
Will this make us run out of oil even faster?

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Gonzih
It's recycled plastic, so I doubt it. Plastic recycling is very expensive
process, so very small percentage of currently produced plastic is recycled
one.

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j_lev
Would be interesting to see how potholes look and how they are repaired.

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1stop
Would potholes still exist? Water can't penetrate plastic and soften it's
structure, and tires can't grip onto plastic and rip it up... so it seems like
there wouldn't be that problem.

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neals
Great to see the massive amounts of plastic that I put out every 2 weeks are
being put to good use.

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dang
Url changed from [http://gizmodo.com/this-company-wants-to-test-plastic-
roads-...](http://gizmodo.com/this-company-wants-to-test-plastic-roads-that-
can-be-ma-1717475902), which points to this.

