

Ask HN: How to hack relationships if you're gay? - an_tie_hero

My story: I&#x27;m in my late 20&#x27;s, I have great friends&#x2F;roommates but none of them really know anyone else. We moved to a new city four years ago and haven&#x27;t really made any new connections. None of my friends are gay, nor do they know any gay people. I work a lot (startup life, yo).<p>I&#x27;ve never been in a relationship.<p>I&#x27;ve tried online dating, I&#x27;ve tried going to events where people with similar interests would be. I&#x27;ve even gone to furry events (for the record: ~30% of furries are gay and ~40% are bisexual; also, I like fursuits).<p>I&#x27;ve yet to even make a friend, let alone meet anyone whom I could enter a relationship with.<p>I don&#x27;t know what I&#x27;m doing wrong. It&#x27;s like nobody is interested in me. I wonder if I&#x27;m too boring.<p>Has anyone else found themselves in this situation?<p>How did you get out of it?
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anigbrowl
Work on cultivating your interest in other people - literally make an effort
to figure people out, what makes them tick, how they became who they are or
did something they find interesting. You'll have to make an effort to start
small talk conversations but don't put pressure on yourself for them to
blossom into friendships, that's something that happens but itself later on -
and I'm sure it will happen. People like a good listener! I find fursuits a
bit baffling, but certainly not boring, so don't be so hard on yourself.

It's good to have a solid job but it's good to maintain a vibrant outside life
too - if you're working so much that you don't have time to make friends then
you need to tweak your work-life balance a bit, not least because it might be
gradually lowering your productivity.

~~~
an_tie_hero
I actually work two jobs right now. One's a day job with a two hour commute
(each way), and I'm trying to help one of my friends start a business too.
Only the first one pays.

I do need to spend more time on myself, but there are too many demands for my
time right now :(

------
puderbunna12t
It sounds like you want a relationship and you're not doing anything about it
that works to get one.

There's currently no technology that lessens the fundamental barrier to
meeting new people: fear. Online dating, singles events, subculture meetups --
if you see them as a guarantee of some people meeting you, they're snake oil.
If you see them as what they are, just opportunities for you to overcome your
fear of meeting new people, they'll bear (...) fruit.

Maybe you consider yourself quite outgoing and "not afraid" of talking to
people. Well, the fear that stops you meeting new people who you end up with
will get you in other ways: fear of intimacy, fear of believing someone likes
you.

I bet, after you get into a relationship and you reflect on all the times you
hung out with other people, you'll gradually realise there were plenty that
liked you, and you just didn't see it, or act on it, at that time.

Whenever I break up, and I want someone new, I get out there and talk to
people. A lot of people. Start conversation. This trains you into a certain
energy level of relating to strangers, which then carries over into your
interactions that are going to matter. The barrier of starting a conversation
with people will seem less, because you'll be used to it more.

Also, you might be in a city which doesn't work to be gay. Some cities are
more anti gay, go to one more permeable.

If you really don't want to take any effort, and you just want someone else to
do all the work, then at least you have to give them an opportunity: get out
there and do something where you meet a lot of people. Some of them will try
to get close to you.

At the end of the day tho, the thing which works best is to be yourself. So
maybe that work on yourself you've been delaying, might be time to get to it.
The reason is because when you're yourself the people you meet and connect
with are right for you, and also what you offer them is truly you. So if you
don't even really know who that is supposed to be at this point, work that
out. So maybe get the relationship with yourself first.

~~~
an_tie_hero
> It sounds like you want a relationship and you're not doing anything about
> it that works to get one.

Yeah, but since I have no experience (and no one to talk to -- parents don't
know I'm gay, for example), I don't know what works.

> I bet, after you get into a relationship and you reflect on all the times
> you hung out with other people, you'll gradually realise there were plenty
> that liked you, and you just didn't see it, or act on it, at that time.

I very rarely meet anyone who's openly gay; when I do, they're taken.

Also, it should probably be worth mentioning, I'm not very attractive. I like
to think I have a good personality, but I don't naturally attract peoples'
interest.

~~~
puderbunna12t
We know that you don't know what works, that's why you're asking. It's ok for
you not to know, and it's ok for me to point out your not knowing is the
reason you're not where you want to be, as opposed to pretending there's
something inherently wrong with you. The thing in your way is that you don't
know, not that you're inherently wrong, and you can improve what you don't
know. Correct, you don't know because you don't have experience, and it's not
a chicken and egg problem because experience is not "successful experience"
experience is trying, and you can hack that by your willingness to try.

People who have a lot of experience, tried a lot of times. Gradually they get
more effective, yet it's like training neural networks, everything works
better with a LOT of data.

So get out there and get experience. Try, try talking, try asking people out,
try being at ease, and you will learn what works for you.

I'm still learning. One hack I used when I was nervous to talk to someone was,
I knew what I wanted to say and just too scared to say it, so I'd count to
three in my head an force myself to say it. Literally like jumping into water,
just force the air out my lungs and mouth to work. Once you're over that first
utterance, it's easier. And the more times you practise that, the less hard it
is to do. And even better, the more times you listen to your feelings about
what you want to say, the more those feelings give you cool stuff to say, and
the more clearly you know them.

So there's plenty you can do, the important thing is just to start.

------
mjb394
When it comes to gay relationships, find some friends first. You need an in to
the community, someone to invite you to the happy hour with their LGBT
volunteer group or the queer short film festival. All you need is one or two
people who are socially connected and get you started with gay events. You
meet their friends, you go to the gay parties with them, you get familiar with
the scene, and one thing leads to another from there. The odds are too slim in
the world outside of gay centric events. You need to actively cultivate a gay
community around you, because the tech life doesn't automatically lead to one
on its own. This is doubly true if your outward presentation doesn't come off
as 'gay' to other people. Making yourself visible to other gay people, even in
subtle ways, makes a big difference. Take it from a straight-as-hell looking
bi woman. I live in the city with the highest number of lesbian couples per
capita, and I met no gay women for six months. Then, I went to one gay happy
hour and met someone who told me about this lesbian tech conference, where I
met a few more people, and now I hang out with gay people multiple times a
week, and I have my first date since moving last year lined up for this
weekend.

Search for gay events on facebook. Go gay hiking with a group from Meetup. Is
there a StartOut chapter in your area? There is very probably a gay tech happy
hour somewhere. Go to gay events until you feel like you're going to start
barfing rainbows. Force yourself to do it. Look for gay networking on
LinkedIn. Add a few people on Facebook (and check out their event feed, often
there is gold in there). Make plans with two new potential friends. Once it
starts going, it's easy to keep going.

------
thisrod
Do you read Dan Savage? [http://www.thestranger.com/columns/savage-
love](http://www.thestranger.com/columns/savage-love)

Your new city probably has a gay counseling phone line. If it doesn't, you
need to move somewhere that does. You're the reason volunteers spend their
time on those phones, so call them. They're gay, and they know where gay
people hang out in your part of the world.

> Has anyone else found themselves in this situation? How did you get out of
> it?

By joining the university choral society, persistence, and a fair bit of luck.
You'll probably do it differently.

> None of my friends are gay, nor do they know any gay people.

Let's do some probability theory. Trait X is randomly distributed across 10%
of the population. (You can cut the Kinsey scale at different places. It's a
round number, and it's true for some plausible definition of "gay".) The
likelihood of your assertion is around P=0.9^(N²), where N is the typical
number of friends you or one of your friends has. Go run hoc.

Case 1: P is above, say, 5%. This is the easy case. You could be right, and
you just need to get out more. Stop reading HN and do it.

Case 2: P strains credibility. You might have to replace "are" with "say that
they are". This is the hard case, because meeting more people who say that
they're not gay won't help, and you need some different friends. A few things
to consider at that point:

Things like online dating, and events where 30% of people are gay, make it
sound like you're still at least partly in the closet. If you fix that, you
can start going to pubs and parties where 99% of people are gay, and they're
99% sure that you are. That makes everything much easier. For one thing,
closeted guys in their late 20s aren't boyfriend material.

Coming out is like standing on a diving board: make sure there's something
safe to land on, take a deep breath, then take a step where you can't step
back. The feelings of exhilaration, existential choice, and not standing on
anything solid, are pretty similar in both cases.

People tend not to be out at work. Therefore pretty well all sane gay men have
a significant life apart from work. That has some negative career
implications, but it also has some positive ones.

Good luck.

~~~
an_tie_hero
> For one thing, closeted guys in their late 20s aren't boyfriend material.

I also don't live with or have anything to do with my parents. I just meant to
say that I don't know anyone personally who can help me figure out why I'm so
bad at this.

~~~
thisrod
Hmm ... that sounds a bit grim. Tell me the city and I'll look up the phone
number. That's not identifying information: there are lots of gay men
everywhere.

~~~
an_tie_hero
Orlando, FL.

~~~
thisrod
This looks like a place to start:
[http://www.glbcc.org/index.html](http://www.glbcc.org/index.html) . Call
them, or just walk in, and chat to the receptionist.

Think of it as like the moment when Harry Potter walks into Diagon Alley.
Though it's almost certainly the other way round:

[http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/the_book_club/features/19...](http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/the_book_club/features/1999/the_harry_potter_series/harry_in_the_new_world.html)

And remember, at the start of the story, being Harry Potter was pretty
terrible. That changed fast.

~~~
an_tie_hero
I'll give them a shot.

------
chickenvaxpox
I fear we have the same fears.

I am also gay, also without many gay friends (few that I hang out with
frequently), same startup life, same late 20s, never been in a relationship
story.

I am deeply uncomfortable with who I am. I have not found an answer yet.

~~~
an_tie_hero
Yeah 3:

Being gay is kind of terrible. Especially if you want a committed monogamous
relationship.

------
Jimyui
I am wondering in the same thing, except I am working on Wall Street where it
is less tolerate. I know there must be some gays in this industry, but it
seems most of gay finance professionals are closeted, and you can't really
tell who is gay and who is not.

------
big_yiffer
Hack your fursona by adding a cool cybernetic eye or a carbon-fiber horn.
Really amp up your fursona game. See you at FC!

~~~
an_tie_hero
Hahaha :3

I don't think I'll make it to FC this or next year. Maybe Megaplex in
Kissimmee.

My FA is InfoSecFurry if you or anyone wants to bark my way.

------
snyderp
I'm single, gay, in Chicago, just hit my thirties, one very good relationship,
a few shorter / smaller ones. I'm not great at dating, and I'm in a field that
isn't exactly drenched in outgoing gay guys (academic computer science), but
here are somethings that have been working well for me:

* Cooking. Not only is it a practical thing you can offer in a relationship, but its also a great way to meet someone. Invite three friends over for dinner, tell them to each bring a someone you don't know. Everyone meets a bunch of new people that likely aren't creeps (since they're at least a friend's friend), you can share something you're learning with them, and even if no one there is gay, they might know someone else who is.

* Join a club. Volunteering is a great thing for this, and volunteering in something you care about. In Chicago (where I live) we have a gay community center called the Center on Halsted. They know that lots of the people volunteering are doing so to meet friends / romantic partners / etc. So there are lots and lots of volunteer opportunities for lots of interests (safe sex promotion, working with the elderly, working with gay homeless youth, etc.)

* Work less. On one hand I know where you're coming from when you say there are too many demands on your time. But on the other hand, what you're also saying is that "all the demands on your time you're accepting are more important than your romantic life." Straight up refuse to work two nights a week and join a gay running club, find a meet up or two that you're sincerely interested in and can become a regular at, etc.

* Get more comfortable saying no. This was the hardest thing for me. I was crazy lonely for a long time, and so whenever I went on a date, I felt like saying "thanks, but I don't feel a connection" was tantamount to saying "thanks, but I'd rather be alone forever." And since I felt I couldn't say no to someone once I started dating them, I didn't say yes to anyone either (since one date felt like it "implied" 100). Surprisingly, feeling less anxious, feeling more comfortable saying no, made it a whole lot easier to say "yes" and try out lots of new possible relationships.

* Therapy? This has been huge for me, not for any particular trauma or issue, but just in a million small ways. I just saw below you saying something like "being gay sucks, especially if you want a monogamous relationship". I'm of course (totally possibly wrongly) reading myself into your comment, so take this with a mega grain of salt, but that sounds like the result of some inner struggle / insecurity stuff, maybe around sexuality. I had that attitude for a long time at least, and thats were it was coming from for me.

Anyway, shit, just wrote a book by accident. Shoot me a message if you wanna
talk more man. Guess reading your comment reminded me of myself a lot…

~~~
an_tie_hero
Actually I was commenting on the only gay people I've met. They just want a
fuck-buddy and I don't want to lower myself to that.

