
How to actually get a remote job as an intermediate developer? - kinetik-pro
I&#x27;ve been trying to get a Remote job for over a month now, with 0 luck so far. I know lots of HN readers are freelancers, so I want to address you.<p>How did you manage to get your first Remote job? 
And if anyone has some spare time and will, could you possibly help me understand what am I doing wrong?<p>I&#x27;m WebDev - PHP BackEnd with 3 years of experience.
Cheers.
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deedubaya
I see a lot of devs trying to convert to remote positions who get frustrated
that they haven't landed a job after days/weeks/months.

Going remote isn't as easy as what many devs are probably accustomed to,
especially if you're new to the game (as the tech hiring market has been
:fire:).

If you're going to go remote, you need to realize a few things:

\- You're competing against waaay more candidates. You need to stand out, not
just be another warm body.

\- You need to demonstrate, without a doubt, that you can/have worked
autonomously.

\- You need to demonstrate, without a doubt, that you can/have been self
managing in the past.

\- You need to demonstrate that you provide a better bang-for-the-buck than
anyone else who has applied

Source: Working and hiring remotely for the last 7-ish years.

~~~
jinfiesto
This. I work remote currently and my job was not initially a remote position.
After about a year of demonstrating the above, I was offered remote as a
benefit. So that's something that might also be an option: finding a company
that's open to remote work and converting after working in office for some
amount of time.

~~~
softawre
As a tech manager, this has worked really well for me. I have had 5 remote
employees. 3 were local first, and all 3 were great. 2 were remote hires and
both failed.

~~~
andrewem
I worked at a place where a junior developer announced shortly after starting
that he was moving 3 time zones away. The company decided to continue to
employ him. It was probably doomed no matter what they did, but they also
insisted he work on a VM at the company headquarters, and didn't have him
visit the team in person on a regular schedule.

Edit: In this situation, he was hardly local first, given the short time
between his hire and his moving far away. All of which is to say I agree with
the poster I replied to.

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k__
I don't know a generic solution, I just can say what I did:

1\. I quit my office job.

Worked there for about 7 years. I saved some money and got unemployment
benefits (60% of my previous salary) so I had 1 year to do nothing.

2\. I did some OSS stuff

OSS teams are almost all remote and they love contributors. So it's not hard
to find some and ... well contribute?

It's an easy way to get into a remote team.

I didn't do it for long, because I don't like maintenance dev stuff, which
working on Firefox stuff basically is if you a contributor for Mozilla, haha.

3\. Do some remote studying

I started a master in computer science at a remote university here in Germany.
They had two mandatory programming projects I had to do with a remote team of
other students.

We did much coordination via slack, hangouts etc.

This was also a good way to get into the remote workflow.

4\. Post your CV online and wait

I saved money for 2 years, so after one year of OSS and remote projects, I
posted my CV on some recruiting sites (Angellist, Stackoverflow, etc.) and
waited.

Took 3 months till I started my first remote job. Talked to 5-6 companies.
Some never called back, some took 2 months to tell me they want/don't want me.

5\. Worked remote for 2 years

I worked remote for 2 years in a startup that was about 300km away from me.
Went there every 2 months for a day or two. They were rather picky with their
remote employees and always tried to persuade me into working in-office. One
day they they lost a investor and had to let a few people go, since I was the
only remote guy left, I guess they simply wanted to get rid of me, haha. So I
got fired.

6\. Started freelancing

With >2 years of remote experience and >10 years of general developer
experience, I started freelancing.

Got 2 projects. One I found by pure luck online in some project small
directory and one in the company where my girlfriend works. Both don't care
how and where I work.

~~~
taway_1212
Unrelated, but in Germany you get unemployment benefits after you quit a job?
Wow.

~~~
softwarelimits
This is one of the most important social networks that exists today and
nations all over the world should copy & paste this idea.

It is incredible to see how underdeveloped social networks are especially in
the US.

It starts by reconquering the words of the language we speak.

~~~
expertentipp
Bullshit. It's very easy to get kicked out of the system, while one is still
required to pay full contributions while employed in Germany. Let's say e.g.
one works in Germany for years, moves to another EU country, ends up without a
job within couple of months. German benefits are forfeit, that's about it
regarding their social security. Money sunk in a black hole.

~~~
germanier
While the system is not perfect, in the scenario you describe times worked in
another country can be recognised within the EU (by filling out form E 301).

~~~
expertentipp
What if one relocated to a country with very limited social support? Paying
the highest (e.g. German) social contributions and getting the lowest (e.g.
eastern European) social benefits. It's like getting spat in the face. Thanks.

------
codingdave
Honestly, I didn't even know my first remote job was going to be remote. I
applied for it like any other job, and it wasn't until the end of the 1st
phone interview that they told me it was a remote position. Their take on it
was they wanted people applying because they wanted the job, not because they
wanted remote work.

In other words -- if you are looking too hard for remote work, that could be
exactly what is holding you back. Look for the jobs that match your skills and
background first. Then from those jobs that you know are a good match,
prioritize the ones that are remote.

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jahbrewski
Network. Getting a remote job is similar to getting any other job, and people
hire those they like and trust. If the term "networking" scares you, just
think if it as making friends. You can do this any number of ways:
participating in online forums, attending meet ups, engaging people on social
media, etc. Figure out where the people that are doing the hiring for whatever
position you want are hanging out and just be friendly towards them. That's my
2 cents!

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ninjakeyboard
Specialize - how can you compete in a market of PHP backend devs when you want
to work remote?

Be a Distributed systems specialist. Or a machine learning guru. write a book,
go talk at meetups and get them posted online. You need a differentiating
factor.

If you think people are going to trust you to work remote because you have 3
years of PHP backend experience, you're wrong. You need to be trusted in the
greater community, to have presence. If anything you should be landing gigs
through referrals, not applying with your CV. So how do you get from point a
to b? network. Meet people. Go to lots and lots of meetups and talk at them.

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Nadya
I worked on-site and became a Very Valuable Individual. I then told my manager
that I'm moving out of the country and would love the opportunity to continue
my work remotely.

In other words, I controlled more bargaining chips. I feel that is going to
need to be true for any remote position. You need to be experienced and
valuable enough that letting you work remotely is worth having you over
someone on-site (for non-remote cultures).

For remote-cultures, the talent pool interested in remote work and the sheer
number of people interested in it makes it far more competitive. As deedubaya
said in their earlier response. You need to show without-a-doubt why they
should choose _you_ over anyone else. The competition is more fierce.

------
apineda
In my case I freelanced/contracted for 2 years before applying for a full
remote gig. Those contract gigs gave me a diverse set of skills to show off on
my resume. It did help immensely that prior to those 2 years freelancing I
worked for 3 years as a intermediate dev for a company that in the last 6
months of my time there went into remote friendly. I took that opportunity to
travel to Europe for 2 months which got me in the front page of one of our
national newspapers. That factoid that I include in my resume catches a lot of
attention and engenders a lot of trust. I've been working remotely for 6
months now a this new gig and it's been great. :)

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tluyben2
Not sure if it works everywere but working on site for company and then
discussing, after a few months, if that would work remotely, seems to work for
friends of mine. I never had an on site job in my life (I am 42) and I try to
be good at things that are hard to find. As PHP webdev, most companies I know
would hire you if you reliably get shit done. Reliably churn out results 6.5
hours per day for 5 days/week. Not many people can do that; actually I meet
very little who can. A colleague of mine makes business dashboards in PHP: he
creates and maintains enormous heaps of the most boring stuff. But he does it,
day after day, year after year and that is worth a lot. Adhd coders that want
to code in some new thing are more common, as are stuck coders who have the
productivity of a snail and need a lot of handholding. Just sit and do it is
worth a lot but you need to get your name out and that happens when you work
onsite first or are able to market yourself online for that role.

------
kinetik-pro
Awww this feels like a fresh shave, so many answers. Thanks a lot!

A month ago I didn't even have any web presence because I didn't need it.
Since then I've polished my CV, made web portfolio, and every few hours I
check each site that posts Remote/Freelance jobs. . .

------
eddd
Relocate to a tech hub (Dublin in my case) and find a job where working
remotely is possible, but be on the site for a few months to prove yourself
that you are effective when remote. Start full time on site and gradually move
to be remote.

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ptasker
Yep as been mentioned, it's obviously a lot more difficult to get remote gigs.
I probably applied to around 20 places over the course of 6 months. Some I
heard back from, some I declined, and most I never heard a peep. I've got
almost a decade of experience too, but it's just that competitive.

\- You need to stand out, have a decent Github profile and/or solid code
samples that you can share

\- Demonstrate the ability to work autonomously

\- Be patient, it takes time.

It's also worth mentioning that if you do get rejected ask them what you can
work on. Helps to know what you can do to bet better and get a remote gig
later!

Source: working remote for the past year

------
etjossem
Work for a company that has several offices that are geographically spread
out. This is a good indicator that the company has already developed the
necessary prereqs (good code collaboration tools, everything is a
videoconference by default, annual all-company occasions, travel policies that
make cross-team sessions easy) to accommodate remote work. Once you know they
have the pieces in place, remote work is a really easy sell. Sell it to your
manager/director, not HR.

I would not want to work remotely for a company that hasn't gotten used to
distributed workers yet.

------
jbuss
I have worked remotely for just about 1 year right now. This answer may not
please you, but I became remote by starting on-site for the company I now work
remotely for.

After about 2 years of working in the office I told my manager that I would be
moving to another state and that I was interviewing for remote positions. I
also said I would stop interviewing if they gave me the ability to work
remotely, which they did (and I was very, very happy to stay). It is going to
be difficult to find your first remote job, but this is how I did it.

------
savanaly
I know this probably isn't the route you can go down, but I'll share my story
since it's one more data point.

The company I'm working for is fairly distributed across the globe, and a lot
of the computer engineers are part time remote (three days at home, two days
at office, say). But typically no one is fully remote at this company. I came
to work on site at a city where they had an office and a few employees but it
was a satellite office and I worked there for a year or so. Then the boss that
was managing that office left the company and they decided to let the
remaining workers from that city go full remote (it was just two of us and
they didn't want to continue paying for an office for just two of us). Since I
was going to be full time remote anyways I kept working for them but I can
live whereever I want so I just relocated back to my hometown.

I did have to push at one or two points to ensure I ended up full time remote,
but mostly it was luck, in other words. This company knows I'm a good worker
and responsible from my year working on site so that may be why I can get away
with the full time remote whereas for new people joining a company I can see
how it would be a hard sell.

------
djheru
I started working remotely with a background similar to what you describe.
Your best bet is to find or negotiate a local position that will allow you to
be remote part-time, and then demonstrate that you are able to work
effectively remotely. Then, over time, try to increase the amount of time
spent working remotely. After a while, you'll hopefully be working remotely
~80% of the time. For me, that was good enough for a long time. If not, you
can find a new (remote) job, and you'll be able to demonstrate a track record
of working remotely, which is understandably very important to your
prospective employer.

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kejaed
I've often thought about starting a job board / remote contract hiring firm
specifically for this area. Pair people who are looking for their first step
into a remote job with companies that are willing to test people out a bit for
perhaps some discount or some other reason. The firm could help screen
applicants for remote suitability, train them up a bit on what it really is
like to work remotely, and then pair with companies. The firms would
understand that while the worker may not have worked remotely before, they
have been screened and are willing to give it a good shot. Thinking maybe a 6
month contract to start and then the option to turn permanent.

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_ao789
To be honest, this is actually a very interesting post and question. As even
myself (fullstack dev for over 15 years) has tried to do this and failed. I
therefore tend to move between fortune500 companies and make as much money as
possible while contracting so that I can (in a while) create my own 'remote
company'. I just decided that given how much of a challenge it is to get
decent remote work, perhaps the best option is to create my own. Anyone
interested in joining me in this venture?

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namanyayg
What efforts have you actually made? How many jobs have you applied to? Have
you polished your online portfolio and CV the best you could? Does googling
you get high-quality results across various social media/news outlets?

The above are just a few questions to start off with. You'll find better
answers once you give a better idea of what you've got going and what you're
already doing.

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vwochnik
Work in the office and demonstrate that you are competent and can work
autonomously. Then ask if you canwork remote. This worked for me.

~~~
cl0wnshoes
same story here as well.

~~~
mildweed
Saw your comment on "How to Interview Engineers" but can't reply to it
anymore.

I'm preparing a talk for the KC Developers Conference "The Two Question Code
Quiz" on how to run an effective technical interview. Please reach out to me,
[https://github.com/scottconnerly](https://github.com/scottconnerly), I'd love
to bounce my ideas off you.

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caffodian
It was mostly persistence and luck in finding a position that matched my
existing skills and interests. You'll often have a code screen as an early
step (because remote jobs get hundreds of applicants in days), so getting good
at those sort of problems can be helpful as well.

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Prizewinner
Look for keywords like “lean” and “agile” to find tech companies with remote
work options. And keep in mind that if a posting makes no mention of being
remote, chances are that it isn’t.

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nullundefined
Do most remote job interview loops include whiteboard-esque coding challenges,
or more focused on soft skills and project/contract based assignments to
assess your skills?

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deft
Good question, I have a bit less experience but am looking for the same thing
soon. I have no idea how to find one. Not even sure where to look.

~~~
bphogan
[http://weworkremotely.com](http://weworkremotely.com)

[http://jobspresso.co](http://jobspresso.co)

Indeed has some too.

~~~
vcanales
One more: [http://remoteok.io](http://remoteok.io)

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kaiku
What have you been trying so far?

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tarr11
A good way to get a remote job is start local (for at least a year), then
move.

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njsubedi
Shout me out at my username at yarsa dot io. I'll see what I can offer.

