

What has Apple got against Eastern Europe? - jkaljundi
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=16056150

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bartl
Ah, it's about iTunes? Get over it. I'm pretty sure the record labels are to
blame.

For example, I live in Belgium, but I can not buy mp3 files from Amazon:

* amazon.com doesn't sell to people in Europe

* amazon.co.uk only sells to people living in the UK, and I don't live in the UK

* amazon.fr only sells to people living in France, and I don't live in France

* amazon.de only sells to people living in Germany, Switzerland and Austria, and I don't live in Germany, Switzerland or Austria.

What's left? Nothing.

~~~
vitolds
What's left? there's always an option to go to thepiratebay.

------
octover
This article is largely ignorant of the larger issues in play. Media companies
only sell the rights to distribute in certain geographic markets. If Apple
could let everyone buy from the US store tomorrow they would. Granted there
are not iTunes Stores for every country, but a larger number. Many of these
only have Apps and iTunes U, but that's because Apple doesn't have the legal
rights to distribute music or movies in those markets. While perhaps some
markets have been ignored, I bet that largely it's not because of a lack of
trying. The groundwork for the iTunes Store has already been done in many
cases. Every thing I've heard has presented the iTunes Store as targeted to be
revenue neutral, designed to help drive sales of Apple hardware.

~~~
rmc
I agree with you that the record labels are probably the root cause. However I
don't like the idea that "It's not Apple's fault, it's the labels". Apple
claimed the record labels forced them to put DRM on iTunes, but then Apple put
DRM on the AppStore. Did the record labels really insist on DRM for indie app
developers? Fact is Apple likes DRM and control.

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papersmith
Apple actually has a giant physical store in Beijing.

<http://www.apple.com.cn/retail/sanlitun/>

I know it because of this video:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8vqSJAOC7I>

They're also building a big one in Shanghai.

[http://gizmodo.com/5279167/apples-massive-shanghai-store-
mix...](http://gizmodo.com/5279167/apples-massive-shanghai-store-mixes-
minimalism-and-classic-chinese-architecture)

Interestingly enough they don't sell anything online. Maybe it has to do with
Chinese buy everything in cash.

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GvS
I had similar problems with Google and Android here in Poland. I wanted to
order Dev Phone 1, fortunately Poland was one of the countries that could do
that, but I was shocked when I saw shipping costs: $ 235.65 total for 399$
phone. And of course we can't buy anything on Android Market. Fortunately
there are other markets available with support for more countries.

Same problem with games. I bought Street Fighter IV to play online, but
Windows Live doesn't support Poland. I coudn't believe it! Why are they
selling me not working product? I had to make british Live! account in order
to play online.

~~~
rmc
Same here. I got a Dev Phone shipped to the UK, and it cost loads more. The
extra cost was to pay for customs and import tax AFAIK.

~~~
vetinari
I got ADP1 shipped to Austria and it was €390 at the time (phone + s&h +
duties + vat). From what I remember, the most expensive shipment at that time
was to... Canada.

------
discodancer
Another question is why is apple merchandise so much more expensive in Europe?
Most european countries have around 20% VAT, but the prices sometimes are even
50% higher.

~~~
tuacker
Everything is sold with the same price but a different currency sign. Just
replace $ with € and you're done. Games, consoles, hardware...

Example:

<http://store.steampowered.com/app/47700/?cc=US>

<http://store.steampowered.com/app/47700/?cc=DE>

(I know this isn't true for everything, but it certainly feels that way)

~~~
jacquesm
So, order abroad and be done with it. One more reason Apple doesn't want
people to order more than 2 ipads I guess, it will cut in to their future
profits.

~~~
geoka9
In fact I just did. Bought a high-end pen tablet on ebay from a seller in the
US. Even including overseas shipping, it was half the asking price here, so I
felt lucky. The only problem, the package arrived with the box tampered and
the tablet itself missing. So I am now stuck with a grip pen and a bunch of
driver CD's :)

~~~
jacquesm
Man that sucks, I hope you can somehow get your money back.

Was the delivery insured?

~~~
geoka9
Thanks, I really felt depressed that day. Not as much about the money
(although it put a dent in my ramen budget), as the feeling of being robbed of
a new toy :)

Yes, since it was Express Mail, it was automatically insured for 100 bucks.

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hboon
When movies and music are not available in an iTunes store, isn't it due to
licensing issues with the studios? I'm in Singapore, and we never had iTunes
store, just the App store.

Edit: English.

------
impeachgod
I live in Ukraine and just use a jailbroken iPhone with pirated apps.

~~~
ovi256
For ten years I've used a Windows PC with pirated apps, games, and media. As
did everyone I knew. Sneaker-nets were extremely well developed, until P2P
took over later.

Now that I'm a software writer myself, I see things differently, but that's
just self-interest talking.

------
mixmax
A small nitpick: _"Estonians invented another icon of internet cool: Skype."_
Skype was invented by Janus Friis, a dane, and Niklas Zennnstrøm, a swede.
They did outsource a lot of their development to Estonia though.

~~~
jkaljundi
Depends what you consider "inventing". The Estonian technical co-founders of
Skype were working together with Janus and Niklas already during Kazaa times,
and were co-founding shareholders and behind the whole Skype architecture from
day one. I would not call that outsourcing. Of course they don't mind you
calling them whatever you like, as they got their 200 mUSD part :)

~~~
mixmax
I didn't know that, thanks for the clarification.

------
jkaljundi
Related issue is becoming an Apple developer in many countries, which used to
be almost impossible or just take months. In many cases they did not accept
credit cards issued in most countries of the world, when signing up. In other
cases it was just delayed for months and months.

------
pilib
he he, this is how my dislike for all things apple began ;)

I had to write to their support in order to get an iTunes account for my iPod
Touch. I got it working in the end, after several emails, but it left a bitter
taste in my mouth. When the controversies around iPhone app store approvals
and developer accounts started, I swore to my self I would get rid of all
Apple products, and I did.

Frankly, a company that displays such arrogance doesn't get to get me as a
customer. Their software is limited, hardware overpriced, policies ridiculous,
and in my opinion, only thing they got going for them is the design.

Computers are devices, not fragrances, they should be feature-full and
powerful, not beautiful in a chick magazine sort of way.

~~~
FluidDjango
> Computers are devices, not fragrances, they should be feature-full and
> powerful, not beautiful in a chick magazine sort of way.

Okay. So _you_ want "a man's computer." You are a member of one niche market.

Apple goes after a different niche market (though I think "chick magazine"
does not capture its essence).

In any case, Apple makes _business_ decisions. _Some_ who evaluate their
growth, earnings, and prospects conclude there is some business savvy in their
business model.

~~~
pilib
they are savvy, yes. no argument there ;).

p.s. i may have gone overboard with my description there :).

------
jwr
Finally someone noticed. I've been ranting about this for years now. And there
are two parts to it: media companies having stupid dinosaur-age licensing
policies and Apple not treating all markets equally. One is often a
smokescreen for the other.

------
shankarganesh
On a related note:

In India:

<http://smokingapples.com/india/apple-support/>

<http://smokingapples.com/india/apple-india-sucks/>

[http://smokingapples.com/india/demystifying-iphone-3gs-in-
in...](http://smokingapples.com/india/demystifying-iphone-3gs-in-india/)

Apple completely ignores India.

------
Maro
Our level of income is roughly 1/3 of that in the U.S, but Apple stuff costs
roughly 50% more. That's why I buy all my Apple stuff on ebay.

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sireat
It is not only Apple, and it is not only media rights, there are other issues.

For example shop.lego.com has a strange list of countries where they ship to:
Poland is included, but Norway is excluded.

------
myslik
Why would anyone want to not sell stuff in some contries?

~~~
LaGrange
Because selling media costs money, and some countries can't really offer much
reward. To sell music you have to deal with labels and, sometimes, local
authorites, while risking small profits. Here in Poland we have some archaic
organizations like ZAiKS, and most people view paying for music as insanity.
That means that we have no major mp3 store in Poland at all (afaik 7digital
and Beatport sell to Poland, and we have some niche stores, but that's all
unless you want to import scrap cards)

~~~
myslik
In Czech Republic the situation is very similiar. But there are still many
people who would like to pay for video and music on iTunes, because it is
really easy and fast. Why we in 21st centure have to go to store and buy
physical media? "Stoneage!"

------
pieter
It's not just eastern europe; I still can't buy movies from the Netherlands,
but there's no other service I can use here either.

------
hohol
iphones are very popular in ukraine/russia, but russian MTS mobile operator
couldn't sell as much iphones as they bought from apple. here in eastern
europe is all about price. people like overpriced stuff even if they can't
afford it. if iphone would cost 200$ with contract noone would bother buying
it - there's always expensive nokia:)

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ahk
My guess is it's the 80/20 rule applied to customers and Apple likes profit
margins much more than just revenues.

Also, it's stereotypical that third world folks abuse store return policies
and customer support in general.

~~~
wynand
> My guess is it's the 80/20 rule applied to customers and Apple likes profit
> margins much more than just revenues.

Speculating is one thing...

> Also, it's stereotypical that third world folks abuse store return policies
> and customer support in general.

...but it's inexcusable when it leads to unsubstantiated claims that tar so
many people with the same brush.

Also it's a massive stretch to call any but a very small handful of Eastern
European countries "3rd world". (I need not defend Eastern Europe, since I'm
South African myself, but it's plain as day that a lot of Eastern Europe is
not doing too badly).

~~~
ovi256
Uhmm, you may all want to brush up on your geopolitics and what "3rd world"
means. Eastern Europe is and always was in the "2nd world" (the label that
never stuck, just like "1st world").

~~~
dimitar
Which is a label as relevant as "communist world", and "non-aligned world"
isn't it?

