
New things in Android 11 - robbiet480
https://blog.google/products/android/android-11
======
matthberg
Two things that stood out to me:

> 8\. If you haven’t used an app that you installed on your device in a while,
> you may not want it to keep accessing your data. Android will now “auto-
> reset” permissions for your unused apps and notify you accordingly. You can
> always decide to re-grant the app permissions the next time you use the app.

> 9\. With additional Google Play system update modules, even more security
> and privacy fixes can be sent to your phone from Google Play, in the same
> way your apps update. So you’ll get these fixes as soon as they’re
> available, without having to wait for a full OS update.

8 seems like a rather wise and user friendly privacy concern (which might be
annoying to power-users who set things up proactively and don't want their
configurations messed with, yet overall a great improvement).

9 has me worried about variants of android like Lineage or ParanoidAndroid
where the play store isn't included automatically. This forced reliance upon
the play store for security sensitive updates is devastating for de-googled
device feasibility. It will make more sense for developers to not support
devices without Google Play, effectively shoehorning alternatives out of the
usable, secure devices realm.

~~~
noir_lord
> It will make more sense for developers to not support devices without Google
> Play

Almost like that was the plan and Google employs some smart people isn't it.

~~~
alisonkisk
If it was OK to wait for an OS update before, why would it be less OK to to
still wait now, just because some devices get fixes further?

Why does Google owe priority updates to unrelated third parties who aren't
interested in patching their own code?

~~~
not2b
Because too many vendors won't push security updates at all, or wait a very
long time, or discontinue support after a year.

------
schoolornot
> More control over your privacy and data

And yet their messaging strategy is to push a carrier standard with what I
consider an egregious oversight: end to end encryption. You know, that thing
Apple and Signal have had since the beginning of time.

Even worse, Google decided to auto-enroll millions of devices into their RCS
hub meaning it's receiving device text messages in cleartext. How do you like
dem apples? And you thought the metadata collecting was bad.

~~~
Nursie
Even more egregious IMHO, is that they set up shadow APNs on android devices,
at the behest of the carriers, and route all tethered traffic via them.

This is so the carriers can measure and limit tethering separately.

The security issue here is that if you have a VPN client running on your
phone, tethered traffic still goes in plaintext to the public internet via the
hidden APN.

Not cool.

~~~
SubiculumCode
This is a big issue for privacy, yes, but also for businesses leveraging
tethering capabilities with company issued phones.

If you have some sources on this, it I'd upvote it as a submission.

~~~
alisonkisk
Anyone security conscious would run a VPN client on the client device, not the
tether.

~~~
dleslie
It's not just the security issue - the ability to differentiate between
tethered and non-tethered traffic means they're not treating them equally.

------
ghoomketu
Thanks to XDA devs I'm able to run my 10ish year old tab (galaxy n8000) with
the very latest Android and almost all apps.

Yes some apps are a bit sluggish but most useful apps are good as running on
any latest hardware. This is definitely one advantage of owning an Android
device over other companies that deliberately slow down hardware to force
people to upgrade hardware.

~~~
reaperducer
_slow down hardware to force people to upgrade hardware._

According to what I read here on HN, iOS devices have a longer usable lifespan
than Android devices, and are officially supported much longer. Is that no
longer the case?

~~~
alisonkisk
Parent is talking about running an unsupported OS on their Android device.

------
Thaxll
Someone can explain why it feels that Android / IOS updates feel less
"important" than 6-7 years ago? I remember it was big, everyone was exited and
waiting for new features.

~~~
johnisgood
Because everything major has already been implemented, and what they should
implement are not being implemented because they go against their incentives,
such as _actual_ privacy features. I think.

Or take for example: they broke call recording. Third party applications do
not work above Android 9 (?). There is a Google feature that allows you to
record calls, but only incoming calls. How is that for a feature? Why does it
have to be tied to Google? Why cannot we just simply record the call, whether
it is an outgoing call or an incoming call, without it being tied to any
Google-related bullshit? It should be relatively simple to implement, but
nope, they do not seem to be wanting to do that.

~~~
threeseed
Call recording is a complex situation.

a) You are recording someone else, often without their permission, which in
many countries is a serious crime.

b) You open up the attack vector for apps to surreptitiously record your
conversations and make them available to governments or criminals to do all
sorts of nefarious things e.g. blackmail you.

~~~
the_pwner224
Web browsing is a complex situation.

a) You can look at photos of someone else, including naked children, often
without their permission, which in many countries is a serious crime.

b) You open up the attack vector for apps to surreptitiously record your
browsing activity and make them available to governments or criminals to do
all sorts of nefarious things e.g. blackmail you.

------
simonsarris
I wish Google cared more about the experience of photographers in Android.
There's no way to pick images from Google Photos, so if you want to post 4
images taken at different times to Twitter or Instagram and you didn't take
them just today, you have to first find them, then put them in a temp album
(or else find them again later), then delete them from your phone, (here's
where you re-find them if you didn't put them in an album first!) then re-
download them. Then you can select them from the device folder "Recovered".
Why is choosing images so bare-metal? Or why can't we have a virtual folder
called Quick Collection or something, like there is in Lightroom?

I have of other gripes as a photographer but they're mostly about Google
Photos and not Android itself.

~~~
tssva
I feel like I must be missing something regarding what you are trying to do
because Google Photos does allow you to select multiple photos taken at
different times and share them together to Twitter or Instagram.

~~~
simonsarris
Oh wow, you're right re: Twitter. You still can't to Instagram feed, though
(but you can to Instagram stories, and you can to feed when only selecting one
image). So to make a gallery post, you have to do it from within Instagram,
which uses device folders.

------
Cactus2018
The biggest downside of owning a good Android device (like a powerful Motorola
that is a few years old); Is Moto abandons updates after 2 years (so if you
buy a 1 year old phone ...), and then the phone might get one additional major
AOSP update from an awesome developer on XDA. Later that developer burns out.
No more security updates. And definitely no more major updates. :(

~~~
CydeWeys
The "a" series Pixels (or other phones in that same feature/performance/price
bracket) are increasingly seeming like the best value for money for this
reason. I too just can't find the value in buying a $1k phone that's not gonna
last any longer than a $350 phone, maybe even less time.

~~~
GekkePrutser
Yes and the pixels in particular have great aftermarket rom support

~~~
milleramp
As long as you don’t buy a Verizon version, which has the locked bootloader,
at least for the pixel 2xl and beyond.

------
lexicality
> In Android 11, conversations across messaging apps will be moved to a
> dedicated space

I really hope this is optional or highly configurable, I don't want work
conversations to start mixing with personal ones :/

EDIT: Ah, it's clearer on the main release page this is for notifications only

[0] [https://www.android.com/android-11/#a11-conversation-
article](https://www.android.com/android-11/#a11-conversation-article)

~~~
maxerickson
The next phrase in the sentence you quote from seems important: "in the
notifications section".

That sounds like the notifications will be grouped, not the conversations (so
like, messaging at the top instead of mixed with everything or something like
that).

~~~
notatoad
yeah, it just splits your notifications into two sections, one for
conversations and one for other notifications. i think any notification that
supports replying from the notification is counted as a conversation.

[https://9to5google.com/2020/02/19/android-11-notification-
co...](https://9to5google.com/2020/02/19/android-11-notification-conversation-
section/)

~~~
lexicality
yeah, my bad

------
pcstl
Every time I see a ".google" domain it just feels wrong.

~~~
Cactus2018
And [https://google.google](https://google.google) doesn't work

~~~
snazz
I feel like it should be [https://search.google](https://search.google)
instead.

~~~
1_player
I reckon Google wouldn't like that, as it would mean "search on Google", as
opposed to, say, [https://search.bing](https://search.bing).

It invites the idea of competition and alternative, which of course is bad
when you're fighting to have complete monopoly of the "search" concept.

------
NateEag
Since this issue is still open
([https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/140786115](https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/140786115)),
I guess guessing this is yet another major release of Android without mDNS
support?

I've been following this issue across several filed issues now (the first one
in the Chrome repo), waiting for them to fix this frustration, but still
nothing.

------
aresant
"Update to media controls and smart home devices" \- section.

Google's track record on home integration is laughably terrible and I'll bet
this functionality comes to market duct-taped together and they'll break it as
soon as it's convenient for them.

Last fall Google essentially bricked third party smart home integrations
within their own NEST ecosystem by forcing a migration to rely on their
terrible Google Assistant umbrella, removing IFTTT support, etc.(1)

As a result third party controller support broke, useful integrations like
"flash my lights if there's a fire" broke, etc.

I appreciate Android's desire to own the UX and relegate all third parties to
beyond their "bubbles" etc but it is scary to hand this level of control to
Google if they disagree with your personal product choices.

(begrudgingly written from Chrome)

(1) [https://blog.google/products/google-nest/helpful-
home/](https://blog.google/products/google-nest/helpful-home/)

~~~
lern_too_spel
This is an OS API. It has nothing to do with the server-side integrations of
whatever smart home products you use.
[https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/device-
control](https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/device-control)

------
chimprich
> One-time permissions will allow you to grant single use access to your most
> sensitive permissions: microphone, camera and location.

What I'd like to see is permission requests for apps to use audio on the
device, and the ability to allow or deny on a per-use basis. I don't want my
phone making any noises unless I explicitly allow it.

------
satysin
I've been waiting for the final release to test out the Android Flash Tool
website at [https://flash.android.com](https://flash.android.com) and it
worked perfectly with a Pixel 2 XL.

Pretty slick and much nicer than messing around with adb and zip files.

As for 11 in general nothing really exciting. Looks the same. Amusingly the
first thing to happen after completing setup was an error message that 'Google
keeps stopping'[0] :) Not the best thing to see on a fully wiped and fresh
install of the OS!

[0] [https://i.imgur.com/Wy4T0qj.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Wy4T0qj.jpg)

------
kyriakos
> Android 11 will begin rolling out today on select Pixel, OnePlus, Xiaomi,
> OPPO and realme phones, with more partners launching and upgrading devices
> over the coming months.

Apart from Pixel all other brands receiving the update immediately are Chinese
brands. This really shows how much the Chinese manufacturers software has
improved and how much the heavy customizations brands like Samsung do to
Android blocks them from providing easy OS updates.

~~~
pas
Samsung just doesn't care. OnePlus does a lot (they have their own fork,
OxygenOS) and their own apps, etc. Samsung has the resources to keep up with
Android. The Android Betas were available for months, AOSP commits are open,
etc. They simply don't prioritize this for some reason.

~~~
kyriakos
I'm on my second oneplus phone and I am surprised with their update cycle,
full OS updates and security patches coming well after other OEMs abandon
their devices. Their android flavor doesn't deviate a lot from stock android
of course which makes it easier and a lot of their features are done via stand
alone apps rather than being baked into the OS.

------
JohnTHaller
If you update and Settings crashes every time you open it even after a reboot,
don't launch it from the pulldown. Scroll through your app list and long press
Settings. Click the Info icon. Select Terminate. That should get it working
again.

~~~
winrid
Weird, I feel like "upgrade and try to start all apps" is an automated
regression test I'd expect to see?

~~~
pas
The problem is probably due to some state saved on the phone that the test
environment doesn't have.

~~~
winrid
Yeah, probably.

------
srg0
So, basically the summary of Android 11 is: People + Controls (at 1:37). Funny
like it would sound completely different, if it were presented as: Controls +
People.

Seriously though, it looks like a step towards how People and Message hub
worked in Windows Phone. From the video I can't understand if what they
propose is a way to consolidate communication channels (I wish it were), or
just more levels of distractions / notifications. And I hope bubbles are
nothing like Facebook Messenger.

------
ninju
No more 'cute' dessert names for each release :-(

~~~
archgoon
Looks like they wussed out on coming up with something for 'Q' last year.

[https://9to5google.com/2019/08/22/android-10-dessert-
name/](https://9to5google.com/2019/08/22/android-10-dessert-name/)

------
ignoramous
> _If you 're using a Pixel 2 or above you'll get additional features to
> organize and manage your phone, like app suggestions on the home screen
> based on your daily routines_

Ads. On the homescreen of a phone you paid money for.

This is madness. A lot of folks I know are livid that Xiaomi, Oppo and other
Chinese OEMs do this...and won't you know it, the world's largest ad-network
wants a slice of the pie, too.

Edit: Looks like these are suggestions for already installed apps unlike on
Xiaomi / Oppo phones.

> _With additional Google Play system update modules, even more security and
> privacy fixes can be sent to your phone from Google Play_

This is huge [0]. Even though Project Treble [1] makes it easier to run latest
AOSP and other forks on Androids, this is a much needed update for billions
who couldn't be bothered.

[0] [https://android-
developers.googleblog.com/2020/07/accelerati...](https://android-
developers.googleblog.com/2020/07/accelerating-android-updates.html)

[1]
[https://source.android.com/setup/build/gsi](https://source.android.com/setup/build/gsi)

~~~
kingnothing
My assumption is this is suggesting apps you already open at a specific time
of day. This is already a feature in the phone in the apps switcher, but isn't
as prominent as displaying the icons on your home screen.

~~~
tonyhb
Yeah, I thought it would use ML to suggest opening your "maps" app before work
because - what do you know - you have opened the maps app to get to work every
day at that time for a year.

I do _not_ believe you'd ever be able to target a user by their routine to
offer ads in this manner. Ads were not even something I thought of when I read
this.

~~~
ignoramous
Other OEMs show you app suggestions based on apps you use. Those suggestions
are typically prompts to install them. I thought Google was bringing that to
all devices.

Thankfully, it looks like that is not the case.

------
mustak_im
So glad I’d chosen a Pixel. Got the second major updates and is
responsive/fast as day 1.

~~~
edoceo
Mine isn't and I don't install Apps (well, Firefox). And Chrome has been
laggy/freezing more lately - even on simple HN pages

------
dominotw
> Android Auto now works wirelessly for all phones running Android 11 as long
> as you have a compatible vehicle.

This is the feature iam looking forward to the most. But I don't think it
works for my subaru crostrek 2019 even though its a compatible vehicle.

~~~
izacus
Right now there's only BMWs that support wireless Android Auto, so your Subaru
unfortunately almost certanly doesn't have the required wireless capability in
infotainment.

~~~
dominotw
yea thats what i thought. Hope subaru offers some sort of upgrade to the head
unit.

------
mikestew
Completely off-topic, but having heard a "youngster" (relatively speaking) use
the phrase "nuke the site from orbit" and then turn right around and ask,
"BTW, where is that from?" [0], I wonder if this title hasn't suffered the
same fate? Considering that the reference was released about 35 years ago, I
imagine many folks saying "it goes to 11!" weren't even born when _This is
Spinal Tap_ came out.

[0] _Aliens_ , the sequel to the first one: _Alien_. I'm old enough to have
gone to the cinema to see all movies mentioned.

~~~
sedatk
Such ancient phrases get fresh lives after appearing as memes. Same happened
with "it goes to 11". [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/these-go-to-11-spinal-
tap](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/these-go-to-11-spinal-tap)

------
matchbok
Neat release, but the amount of stuff Google adds to Android every year simply
pales in comparison to what Apple is doing. Nevermind the fact that 80% of
Android users won't see this stuff for another 3 years.

~~~
ogre_codes
In fairness, a lot of the things Apple added to the iPhone is things which
have been on Android for a while.

That said, I do kind of agree with Gruber, it kind of feels like the passion
for Android has burned out at Google and they are just dialing in a lot of
this.

The Pixel specific updates seem particularly weird to me too.

~~~
izacus
What does Gruber, an Apple defender, really know about what Google's attitude
towards Android is? He's measuring everything against the Apple stick and is
always criticising moves that aren't the same as Apple's.

That doesn't seem like a good strategy for a competing product.

~~~
ogre_codes
> What does Gruber, an Apple defender, really know about what Google's
> attitude towards Android is?

If a person has a good point, they have a good point. This isn't a very strong
Android update and neither was last year's.

~~~
GekkePrutser
Wel the dark mode on A10 was a huge thing for me <3

~~~
athms
Too bad most of Google's apps didn't support dark mode until months after
release.

~~~
GekkePrutser
Oh I wasn't aware of that. I don't really use many of them. Just the play
store really, I did notice that one didn't support it right away. I don't even
use Google Maps, nor Gmail, Chrome or Youtube etc :)

With third-party apps there was a bit of a lag in support but the same goes
for dark mode on iOS. Even now some apps don't support that.

But right now the main apps I use on Android all support it. Samsung Mail,
OSMAnd for maps, Firefox (with dark reader extension that automatically
matches the system dark mode!), most chat apps I use, password store, MS apps
I use for work, etc. It's really amazing to have this. I'm sensitive to too-
bright displays and most displays these days are tuned for maximum output, not
minimum.

~~~
athms
I can understand if your using a Samsung device. I have a Pixel and Pixel 3a
XL, and the pure Android experience has not been great regarding dark mode.
That said, I am not a fan of dark mode in general because of the eye strain. I
use it on the Pixels because they have OLED screens and I am trying to
maximize battery life.

------
ffpip
> More control over your privacy and data

Yet every Google app gets all permissions (even non-essential ones) on by
default? Because users never turn them off, and you give a misleading prompt
urging them to turn it back on.

------
roschdal
When will this come to Samsung?

~~~
izacus
Depending on your model, region and carrier, somewhere between 3-12 months and
never.

------
iammru
UX looks more complicated than before.

------
sasij
Seems fine. Nothing particularly interesting.

------
cwhiz
#9 screams of anticompetitive product bundling. What do OS updates and
security patches have to do with the Play Store?!?!?

------
SubiculumCode
```11. If you're using a Pixel 2 or above you'll get additional features to
organize and manage your phone, like app suggestions on the home screen based
on your daily routines, and new overview actions that allow you to take a
screenshot of an app and select text and images, and more.```

Is this supposed to be a feature? The last thing I want is app suggestions
based on my usage pattern.

