
Ask HN: I'm a 17-year-old with $700. What's the best laptop for me to get? - brandonhsiao
After a freelance project I'm left with $700. My laptop broke weeks ago and I'm borrowing a friend's. What would be the most cost-efficient laptop for a developer to buy? I know absolutely nothing about hardware. I don't play games or anything; I just need it to (a) be portable, (b) be powerful enough for a web developer, and (c) have a long battery life.<p>I'm also getting into Linux and plan to install a distro on the new laptop;  feel free to suggest a particular setup X to go with laptop Y.<p>(I only mention I'm 17 to show that I don't work full-time; I'm still in school; I have few living costs; etc.)
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millerc
None at all. Save the $700. You don't need to spend it now unless it's
literally on fire and burning your hands. Learn to save. You'll be glad you
have money piled up when you leave the family nest. It's a tough world.

Have an old desktop? Use it. "Portable" and "development" are contradictory
terms anyway. No desktop? Find a cheap/used/refurb one, $200 tops. Web
development has one of the smallest demand on CPU power; you'll be just fine
with an old desktop, you'll learn how to manage computing resources
efficiently, and that will make you better at your trade. You're just 17...
you have decades of learning ahead of you. Learn to drive the family car
properly before you allow yourself to crave for a race car.

Unless you just want a shiny toy to look cool at Starbucks, and don't care if
it's a worthless piece of junk in a year or two. In which case, yeah, Apple.

ObDisclaimer: Been there a very long time ago.

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noahc
I would suggest the following:

4GB of Ram i7 or i5 SSD

Something like this:

x220:
[http://outlet.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/outlet_us/...](http://outlet.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/outlet_us/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=445&Code=4290XB7)

or x230:
[http://outlet.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/outlet_us/...](http://outlet.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/outlet_us/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=445&Code=R9TBNWW-2306CTR)

Might fit the bill.

The nice thing about the x220 is that it is what a lot of Linux Kernel hackers
use so the hardware tends to be well supported. Get an intel wifi card and
intel graphics card. I have personally avoided Optimus technology for fear of
lack of support, however, others have had luck with it so it might not be too
bad.

Do you have any preference for screen real estate?

~~~
jdietrich
Seconded on Lenovo - I've never had a bad experience with them. A cheaper
alternative to the x220/x230 is the X131e; It has a less powerful ULV i3
processor, but I find the performance perfectly adequate for web development
once upgraded with an SSD.

Ebay is usually full of lightly-used Thinkpads and you can find some real
bargains.

------
aaronbrethorst
Scrounge up an extra hundred bucks somehow, somewhere and pick up an 11"
MacBook Air at Best Buy this weekend: [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-
gilbert/macbook-air-sale...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-
gilbert/macbook-air-sale-best-buy_b_2551623.html)

------
southbaybob
Save up more money and buy a Macbook Pro. The cheapest model will do. You can
probably get it from Amazon cheaper even with Tax and Shipping.

If you are getting into Linux, get a Mac since it is essentially a type of
Linux. As a full stack mobile/web developer, it is nice to set everything up
on your mac pretty much exactly the same way as you would in your Linux
production environment. You don't need to worry about some packages you use
may behaves a little different in Windows or Linux. You can run virtualization
on PC, but why run virtualization when it will just work directly when you
open up the OS X terminal.

To be fair. I have not always been a Mac user. I started programming when I
was 16. Got my bachelor's degree in Computer Science and started to work as a
software developer. I have always used a PC for 10+ years. However, it just
became a pain to match your PC to your production environment which is pretty
much a Linux box these days. A lot of times, in order to build something
scalable, I end up trying new technologies and compiling the package from
source. It is nice to set up your dev environment on a 'linux-ish' box (aka OS
X) while your target production is also Linux. And if you want to do iOS dev,
then you will definitely need a Mac as well to make your life much easier.

~~~
csense
OS X is based on Darwin, not Linux. It's a UNIX environment, not Linux.

I would disrecommend Mac, because he'd be buying an overpriced piece of junk.

~~~
southbaybob
Lol. I was debating whether to spell it out because I got a feeling someone is
going to pop up saying what you just said. Well. more precisely it was derived
from BSD.

And that is some strong feeling you just expressed there. Why so much hate? :)
Overpriced or not is based on what it can do for you and how much your time is
worth. Of course, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinions.

By the way kido, don't just take our advices here. On the Internet, you have
no ideas who is behind the typed message. See if you can find someone in your
life who is successful in the field and you admire. Go visit their work
environment and see what they use. That may be a more beneficial start for
you.

------
revorad
If I were you I wouldn't spend all that money on a shiny new laptop. And
unlike others are suggesting, I would definitely not spend even more on a
shiny new Macbook, because it's not a one-time cost. You will pay more in
repairs later on.

Especially since you're interested in Linux, I'd go to ebay and buy an old
Thinkpad. You can get some good cheap ones.

If you do want a Macbook, you can also get some cheap ones on ebay. I'm typing
this on a 2008 Macbook that I bought last year for $500. It's serving me
perfectly well as a web developer. I have also done some iOS development on
it.

Before you settle on a Linux distro, try a few in VMs and see which one you
like best. Then you can install that to the hard disk.

One thing to make sure is you don't buy a computer with a low max RAM. Even if
it's a relatively old model, as long as you can have 4-6GB RAM, it'll work
great.

If you make more money freelancing, you can sell the old computer and buy a
better one. It will also teach you something about buying and selling
computers, if you're interested in that kind of thing.

------
pikewood
My advice is to look at the parts of a laptop you can't change. These are the
things that you will regret the most when you use it.

For me, a crisp keyboard is essential, and it's also one of the pieces where
you don't have much choice once you've bought it. Same with the pointing
device if you're using it in strictly laptop mode. My job laptop and my
personal laptop are two different brands, and it's such a relief to go back to
my personal laptop at the end of the day, mainly due to the keyboard and
mouse.

Screen resolution is also very important. Yeah, you _can_ replace your screens
with something better down the line, but it can be costly and it's probably
better to get what you need up front.

You can generally get a larger battery (or a second battery); unless you do a
lot of walking, portability may conflict with usability of the computer (tiny
screen, cramped keyboard).

------
csense
Stay away from Samsung if you're planning on using Linux [1].

There's a new BIOS "feature" called "Secure boot" which will affect Linux on
Windows 8 machines. There's been a lot of discussion of this here and among
distros. Everyone says that everything will work out, but it's still a new
thing, so the road may be a little bumpy. You may want to stick with Windows 7
for now.

You can often improve your experience cheaply by upgrading your RAM. You can
put 8 GB in most laptops for a cost of $100 or less. This is particularly
important if you use large numbers of browser tabs, or virtual machine
software like Virtualbox (an easy way to get started with Linux).

As for getting a Mac -- Don't.

[1]
[http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4O...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4ODQ)

------
rachelbythebay
I bought the cheapest, simplest little laptop I could find at Frys just
because I needed an airgapped Windows solution a couple of years back. It was
an eMachines (Acer) D620, and I think it cost me about $300. This was almost 4
years ago. It isn't sleek or shiny, but it does run Linux just fine.

I would hope you could find at least that much of a machine for no more than
that much money today, and that's new. If you're talking about used, it might
be far, far less.

It won't win any races or beauty contests, but it's not supposed to.

What _is_ "web development" to you? To me, that calls for a Linux box running
Apache and the basics of being able to edit, build, run, and test code: my
text editor, a compiler, the usual libraries, and my build tool. Oh, that and
a recent browser, so X11. That's about it.

Your mileage will vary.

------
manglav
Lenovo T420. Buy it from their outlet section. If you're quick, you can get
one for under $700. Great computers, very sturdy, and easy to repair yourself.
Highly recommended. (I own one. This is being typed from it).

------
LarryMade
Linux? Get one with an Intel or nVidia graphics chipset (if you want graphics
speed, go nVidia) avoid ati/radeon - its support on Linux has been touchy, the
drivers have a long history of installation issues.

if you want speed again i5 is a good minimum, don't skimp on the processor,
you can't pop in a better one if its too slow... you can always improve the
drive/ram later - make those less a factor.

drive if possible SSD, but then don't make it a major priority as that can be
swapped out on most wintel machines.

Just about any distro should work fine, the only main sticking point for Linux
users are the graphics chipsets.

------
honestcoyote
I've seen some Thinkpad X230's for sale this week for around 750-800. This is
a little over your price range but, if you can save a bit extra, this is a
great machine. Has an IPS screen which definitely has a great effect when
you're staring at editors all day, is easily upgradable. It's going to be as
bulletproof as a MacBook but at a cheaper price. The trackpad isn't as good as
a MacBook but you do get the trackpoint, which I personally prefer since it
doesn't take your fingers away from the keyboard.

Lenovo is generally amiable towards running Linux. It seems to run well on the
X230.

------
prodigal_erik
Laptops are easily lost or stolen and crammed with parts that are poorly
cooled and hard to replace or upgrade. They should be treated as disposable--
you can't really afford it if you'd struggle to replace it even once. If I had
that problem and absolutely _had_ to be mobile, I'd buy a netbook, work
remotely on a real computer (VPS, EC2, whatever), and back up religiously. You
definitely shouldn't squander a big fraction of your entire net worth on the
Apple Tax, suggestions here to the contrary.

------
limeblack
I am also in school (1 year older). And have tried several laptops over the
last couple years. I am currently using a 13 inch business laptop.

You asked about software

    
    
      - Windows 7(I use the old Windows 98 interface, still don't like the docky thing)
      - Ubuntu (I use the gnome style, again not the dock)
      - Mac OSX (depends on the hardware and if you are willing to do some trail and error)
    

I have tried going with a Desktop for years, but for some reason teachers
don't let me use them in class(joking). I agree I need that portability.

I currently am using one of the business laptops that are large corporate
companies use. For example Thinkpad, and HP often get into corporate deals
with hospitals, schools, IT infrastructures, etc..

Reasons I would do so.

1) __Cost __\- They are often fairly cheap to buy a used one. I believe there
is an decrease in cost that goes on with the devices. Companies buy them in
bulk and then often sell them in bulk.

2) __Supported __\- by companies, hardware and even linux(both hp and thinkpad
are often Intel graphics cards)

3) __Take Apart __\- They are often intended to be taken apart. I'm serious. I
have a panel on the bottom of mine to eject the back. Instance access to RAM
and hard drive. I personally like the flexibility.

4) __Tracking Point __-I can't stand one of those trackpads(Yes even on Macs).
The business models almost always have tracking points because a lot of
business people can't stand them either. This may or may not be a selling
point for you, but it is for me.

5) Quality - The business models truly feel more solid to me, and you can more
easily order replacement parts online.

6) Matte Display - If you are working for long hours, I find glossy displays
impossible to use. Business laptops (at least all that I have seen) use Matte
Displays. This is fairly different then the glossy ones they sell in Best Buy.

I used to own a Thinkpad, now I own a Elitebook 8460p - i5 4GB. I bought it
for $350 off ebay.

I will probably get a Thinkpad in a year or so I like their keyboards better.

Additionally Thinpads are what a lot of the linux kernel guys and Googlers
use.

------
rsingel
I'd look for an old Macbook that you can actually upgrade (many you cannot).
I'm still loving my 2008 Macbook 4.1. It's got a 2.4 Ghz processor, upgraded
to SSD and 6GB of RAM and new battery (~4hrs runtime).

Check for refurbs and upgrade via Other World Computing. Not saying to go back
as far as I am (for instance, my machine can't run Mountain Lion.)

I've run this computer _hard_ \- my first Mac after decades of PCs and I
wouldn't go back. But do watch out for newer Mac models that can't be
upgraded.

------
saurabh
I am a web developer and I personally use this one.

<http://www.sony.co.in/product/vpcyb25ag>

I got it for ~$450. It's a little slow but it gets the job done. It's
extremely portable. My friends are jealous because I pick it up like it costs
nothing. It's relatively lightweight. It came with Windows 7 Starter Edition
preinstalled. I cleaned it up and installed Archlinux on it. Now it's my goto
machine for hacking on stuff.

------
brianbok
I'm also 17 and I was recently in a similar situation. I ended up buying this
computer for a little bit over the price you asked
[http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/satellite/P850/P855-...](http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/satellite/P850/P855-S5200/)
Up to now I had no problems. It has some really nice specs (Intel i7
Processor, 8 GB ram), has great sound and it's not heavy

------
jfasi
I would suggest an older-generation macbook. Between the excellent hardware
build quality and the well-maintained software, they don't become obsolete
quickly. I've got enough cash on hand to buy a new laptop several times over,
but my old macbook is still going.

If it's battery life you want, then you definitely should go with the macbook
air.

------
bsims
What about finding some local business with a poor website and offering to
build them a new website for $500 if they help you buy your next computer. Now
you have $1,200 to buy a new Macbook.

Don't just think about the cash you have now, think about how you can use that
tool to make more...even if it is before you have the laptop.

------
dragonbonheur
CNET has a nice site you might want to see: <http://reviews.cnet.com/laptop-
reviews/>

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michaelbuddy
Save the money. Why buy a laptop that's only OK when you can Save 2000 and
then spend a good amount on abetter laptop and still have 700 left over.

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grimborg
Second hand x220? I use it as my personal laptop and I love it (ssd, i5, 8Gb
of ram)

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meric
You can pick up a 2009 Aluminum Macbook Pro from Ebay for around $550ish.

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michaelbuddy
if you must buy save and get a system76 linux laptop. There you go, linux and
supporting a good company. Pricesn't aren't bad.

------
whichdan
I also agree that saving up for a MacBook will be worth the money.

My first laptop was a Dell Vostro, which is essentially a rebranded Inspiron.
The keyboard and screen were excellent. I had issues with stability (BSOD),
the slow 5400rpm harddrive didn't have much kick, the trackpad sucked, and the
AC port broke. Luckily, due to my warranty, they sent out a tech to fix the AC
port the next day.

Next up was a Lenovo Thinkpad T400. While the trackpad was slightly better,
and the laptop itself was built like a brick, the quality of the screen with
subpar, I still had BSOD issues, and the overall performance seemed to degrade
very quickly. Like you, I wanted some killer battery life, so I went for the 9
cell instead of a 6 cell -- basically, a larger battery that "stuck out" of
the back. Brand new, the laptop was getting a solid 8 hours, but within 15
months, it was down to 3 hours. It was really, really disappointing. In
addition, the default settings for the laptop being unplugged limited the
power to the wireless adapter to 50%. This was buried under several menus, and
caused me to have intermittent connectivity issues for the first year I owned
it, until I happened to stumble upon that one setting. Lenovo didn't offer and
onsite warranty, so I had to yank the harddrive out and send mail the laptop
back to them to get it serviced.

Two years ago I got a 15" MacBook Pro, and I'm still very happy with it today.
My battery has degraded about 10%, so I get around 4-5 hours unplugged instead
of 5-7. I opted for an SSD which was a massive performance gain compared to my
old laptops. I haven't had any stability issues, and my performance is just as
good as the day I bought it. The only issue is that I've had two power adapter
cords break on me, but with AppleCare (totally worth the money) Apple has
replaced them with no problem.

In terms of running Linux, you can very easily use VirtualBox (free) or
Parallels (paid) to run Linux on OSX, instead of having to boot into one or
the other. This makes it super easy to try out different distros, and if you
run it in fullscreen, due to OSX's Virtual Desktops, you can assign Linux to
your second desktop, and literally three-finger-swipe between OSX and Linux.
It's really cool if you want to take advantage of Mac-only apps, but still get
to play around with Linux. That said, the 128gb SSD might feel a little
cramped a year or two down the line, but it's certainly livable.

Personally, 11" is too small for me, so I'd suggest shooting for a 13".
AppleCare is $249, and you can buy it any time within the first year of owning
your Mac (IIRC, all Macs have a 1-year warranty). That might make it easier to
purchase one now, and deal with the extra cost later.

Really, if you have an Apple store or a Best Buy within driving distance, you
should try out a half dozen different laptops. The difference in quality
should be very apparent.

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dylanhassinger
defintely get a macbook. wait and keep saving if you have to.

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shire
Don't buy Windows. You will encounter so many problems you're going to wish
you had saved for a MACBOOK PRO (:

