
High Times: When does self-experimentation cross the line? - Hooke
https://www.chemheritage.org/distillations/magazine/high-times
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brandall10
It's unfortunate Alexander Shulgin[1] wasn't mentioned - more or less he's the
person most closely associated w/ MDMA and self experimented with it and some
200+ other compounds he synthesized - many done w/ a group of like minded
chemists/researchers at Berkeley during the 60/70s.

Reports of those experiences in his books are credited with innovating the
'trip report' used at places such as Erowid... which is more or less the gold
standard for the modern-day psychonaut.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Shulgin)

~~~
nom
People like Hoffman and Shulgin are real heroes. It's unfortunate that most of
the substances they discovered are largely ignored by the medical community
simply because they are used recreationally.

I have high hopes for halluzinogenes like LSD or DMT though, I feel like
they're getting more and more accepted, e.g. for treating PTSD, depression,
addiction and other mental illnesses of that kind.

I recently read about DXM, and still have no idea how this stuff is legal in
most countries. In Germany, you can buy 1g for 10€ over-the-counter, without
prescription or ID. It's a messed up world we live in.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Most people I know who’ve taken large doses of psychedelics, including myself,
are convinced of their incredible potential for treatment of mental issues.
The problem is that they can be…unpredictable.

The last time I had a large dose of psilocybin mushrooms, it was a difficult
experience, but afterward I began to take better care of myself—drinking less
alcohol, spending more time with friends and family, enjoying the outdoors,
being less generally anxious about work, life, and death. It really changes
your personality. Those effects remained strong for several months and
noticeable for about a year afterward.

Definitely not a thing to be trifled with—and I’ve seen firsthand the rare
case of a psychotic episode brought on by careless use of psychedelics—but I
can’t believe we’re not using this stuff medicinally or trying to develop more
reliably therapeutic analogues. (I did once meet a woman who does ayahuasca-
assisted addiction treatment therapy, but that’s far from common, and even
less predictable.)

I’ve been asked for ID when buying cold medicine that happens to contain DXM.
I don’t understand why people take that stuff recreationally, though, other
than that it’s available. Even an ordinary cough-suppressant dose of 10mg is
overwhelming to me.

~~~
nom
Glad that it had some positive effects on you. Always try to increase the dose
slowly. Psilocybin is especially critical as the dose will vary largely,
unlike artificial substances.

> Even an ordinary cough-suppressant dose of 10mg is overwhelming to me.

You may be either one of the few % who are super sensitive to it, or it was
not pure dextromethorphan. AFAIK many products in the US are combined with
acetaminophen to diminish the abuse potential.

> I don’t understand why people take that stuff recreationally, though, other
> than that it’s available. Even an ordinary cough-suppressant dose of 10mg is
> overwhelming to me.

For me 3mg/kg body weight DXM is comparable to 2mg/kg MDMA. Anything above
that can result in pure horror, Dissociative hallucinogens can get very
intense very quickly. And it can last for >8 hours...

If you have pure DXM, 2-3mg/kg body weight should be safe... usually. If you
read the wiki article, it's a really complex drug with many receptors involved
and thus everybody processes it differently, especially at large doses. Which
makes me wonder even more how this stuff is legal.

~~~
throwa44098542
You can find the dxm only stuff on amazon by searching "dextromethorphan".

The customer reviews are pretty amusing.

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pmoriarty
There's an interesting book that delves further in to this:

 _Who Goes First?: The Story of Self-Experimentation in Medicine_

[https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-
Experimentation-M...](https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-First-Self-
Experimentation-Medicine/dp/0520212819/)

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empath75
It crosses the line from experimentation to 'abuse', imo, when you start
experiencing negative consequences, and continue to 'experiment'.

I've been self-experimenting with caffeine for almost my entire life.

~~~
andrewl
This may be apocryphal, but it's said that a friend warned Voltaire coffee was
slow poison. Voltaire responded that it must be, because he had been drinking
it for fifty years.

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loblollyboy
That article ended super abruptly

~~~
rubatuga
I was hoping for an actual analysis into where we should draw the line for
self-experimentation, and not end with an anecdote

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taxicabjesus
There was a shortage of nitrous oxide last fall... Airgas' Florida plant had
an explosion, and the canned whipped cream manufacturers had to cut their
production.

Xenon is an anesthetic too; I think pure nitrogen just knocks you out. My
cousin-in-law is an anesthesiologist, maybe I'll ask him about it.

[http://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-
news/2017-archive/jan...](http://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-
news/2017-archive/january/fda-issues-shortage-notice-for-nitrous-oxide)

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theoh
Nitrogen makes up the largest part (80%) of breathable air, and the body just
ignores it. It's the lack of oxygen that knocks you out.

~~~
vkou
You can actually get high on nitrogen.

This is a serious problem that SCUBA divers face, and is also the reason for
why the deepest dives have to use exotic breathing gas mixes, instead of
compressed air.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis)

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jerrylives
I would give anything to try the acid that was made by Owsley

