
How Haiti became poor - devy
https://kottke.org/18/01/how-haiti-became-poor
======
chmln
Not to excuse or condone the president's behavior in any way, but it is not at
all obvious how the word "shithole" is racist. I take issue with this because
this word is so overused that it is losing any meaning.

There are many light-skinned countries that can also be considered as
undesirable places to live. Poverty, violence, and corruption can be quite
common outside the western world (e.g. many post-soviet countries). 90s Russia
is a prominent example of one such place, but lets just say Russians generally
have a fair complexion.

~~~
ocschwar
The word "shithole" isn't racist. And any of my Haitian neighbors will
confirm, anywhere you go in Haiti, you put your life in your hands if you try
to drink tap water, which by common definition is what makes a place a
shithole.

That's not the issue. Ok. Haiti is a shithole, which is why my city is full of
Haitians taking any work they can and sending money home to make the country
fit for safe human habitation.

What Trump was saying is that because Haiti is a shithole, my Haitian
neighbors should be rounded up and sent back there, and prevented from what
they're currently doing for their country with remittances from the US.

There is no way to explain that comment as anything but pure distilled racism.

~~~
judah
>> "What Trump was saying is that because Haiti is a shithole, my Haitian
neighbors should be rounded up and sent back there"

You're projecting.

Trump's comment was that we should discourage immigration from places with
low-skill labor. There was nothing in his statement about rounding up existing
legal immigrants and revoking their citizenship.

~~~
ap3
Where did he say anything about low skill labor?

Now you are projecting

~~~
judah
Nope. Read the article[0], the temporary work visas on the chopping block
apply only to low-skill workers without higher education.

[0]: [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-
hai...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-haitians-
agricultural-seasonal-worker-visas-n838581)

------
jacknews
Trump is an oaf, a bigoted blowhard, even a monster, and it should be no
surprise that his comments are totally un-presidential.

But all this self-righteous indignation is a bit much. The simple truth is
that some countries can indeed be fairly described as "shitholes", and rarely
is it down to just poor weather or ugly landscape.

This article seems to focus exclusively on making out Haiti, and other poor
counties, to be the victims of evil wealthy western powers, but there are
usually many factors affecting wealth and poverty, including climate,
location, natural resource wealth.

Of course colonialism and "western imperialism", globalization, geo-
politically induced instability and conflict, etc, are definitely huge
factors, and very often cited as here, but I think another large, and often
ignored factor, is the society itself; the culture, government, institutions,
and civil society and community spirit (or lack thereof) that the people of
that country build for themselves.

Not that I've been to Haiti, I'm sure it's as good a place as anywhere if you
ignore the lack of "development".

------
judah
This article starts off with several politically-charged insults and
accusations against the President, claiming he is a racist.

As the (never-Trump) news outlet National Review posted today[0], we can't
have a productive conversation that starts from a faulty premise based on
politically-charged opinion.

"There’s another reason the media are labeling Trump himself racist: This
alleviates the requirement to honestly assess his actions and statements.
Rather than analyzing whether a given statement is racist, or whether it could
be interpreted otherwise, the media simply use Trump’s alleged racism as a
skeleton key answering every question. Trump says he wants immigration
restrictions? It must be racism. He slams radical Islamic terrorism? Racism.
He condemns violence in inner cities? Racism. Each of those statements could
more plausibly be read as non-racist, but the charge of racism papers over all
shoddy analysis."

[0]: [http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455467/media-call-
trum...](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/455467/media-call-trump-racist-
what-end)

~~~
fencepost
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, swims like a duck, etc.

Actions speak louder than words, but the words are already loud and bad
enough.

------
temp-dude-87844
Haiti's fate is a textbook example of Realpolitik at work, where the economic
might of world powers was used to punish a breakaway state that won its
freedom through military rebellion to disincentivize other colonies from doing
the same. The message was simple: there are other ways we can make you
miserable; and it worked to great effect. Once the stage was set, it was
difficult for Haiti to climb out of the hole on its own, so it became trapped
in a cycle of poverty and misery and the resulting power squabbles, which were
occasionally compounded by outside interference, or terrible luck.

As to why Haiti is _still_ poor, the reason is even more sinister. Haiti has
the highest number of operating NGOs per capita, yet remains rather
dysfunctional in every way. This state of affairs has been criticized from
several perspectives [1][2][3]. For the most of the last 40 years, the
international community has been allowing Haiti's own government and Haiti's
own people very little voice and control over funding of how aid is
distributed, distrusting the underpowered government as corrupt, and the
people as helpless. But if international and private-sector governance results
in such underwhelming outcomes too, perhaps it's time to let the people of the
state take a larger role in their own destiny, instead of being treated as an
untrustworthy group with no agency.

[1] [https://nacla.org/news/ngos-and-business-poverty-
haiti](https://nacla.org/news/ngos-and-business-poverty-haiti) [2]
[https://www.npr.org/2011/01/13/132884795/the-nation-how-
ngos...](https://www.npr.org/2011/01/13/132884795/the-nation-how-ngos-have-
failed-haiti) [3] [https://newint.org/features/2012/01/01/haiti-money-ngo-
un](https://newint.org/features/2012/01/01/haiti-money-ngo-un)

