
Not Working for Us (Preparing to Discuss Jacob Applebaum at CCC) - j_s
https://medium.com/@eqe/not-working-for-us-bff58e96c2ea
======
woodandsteel
Good article by Isaacson. I would add I think it would be good if the CCCers
got some outside consultation, both from people in the sex abuse field, and at
least one person who is an expert on sociopaths, since that is what it seems
JA is.

I think it would also helpful would be helpful to learn communication skills
like active listening and the ones in Marshall Rosenberg's book Nonviolent
Communication.

~~~
rurban
But if you read the long Zeit article[1] and esp. the latest taz article[2] it
becomes clear that the other party consists also of psychopaths whose actions
were even more dangerous.

[1] [http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-
sexua...](http://www.zeit.de/kultur/2016-08/jacob-appelbaum-rape-sexual-abuse-
allegations/komplettansicht)

[2] [https://www.taz.de/!5361578/](https://www.taz.de/!5361578/)

~~~
woodandsteel
The link just reinforces what I am saying. You have a community with some bad
social norms, and many people in it are now realizing it and trying to change
the whole group.

~~~
woodandsteel
Let me add that there are two competing stories here. One is that JA is a
sociopath, and got away with it because of the norms of the group, but now
people are changing and rejecting such behavior.

The other is that the females in question all thought for years that JA's
behavior was fine, or at least not very bad, and then all of them, for some
unaccountable reason, went crazy at the same time and irrationally decided to
persecute him and him alone.

I find the first story a whole lot more plausible than the second.

------
guitarbill
Everybody deserves justice. I don't think Medium posts and a lynch mob are the
way this is achieved. Get the police involved when a crime is committed.
Enough with the hearsay character assassinations. This time, the author even
admits that he's conflicted and that his memory isn't completely reliable. So
as somebody from the "out-group" it's hard to take it as seriously as it
probably should be taken :(

Edit: Instead of spawning a discussion, I should have guessed this would be
downvoted immediately for not representing SJW values. Sorry to disappoint.

~~~
gdulli
> SJW values

What does this mean?

~~~
greglindahl
SJW is most commonly used as a pejorative term these days, and it's anyone's
guess what it's supposed to represent other than "people who aren't agreeing
with me."

~~~
guitarbill
I didn't just mean "people who aren't agreeing with me", but specifically
people who disagree but who try and use some kind of censorship or shaming to
silence disagreements, instead of engaging in them. AFAIK, this is a common
tactic of the mentioned group. (At the time of the edit, I had no replies but
like -5. Not that it really matters.)

Disagreement is constructive at some level, and so it's a good thing in my
opinion.

~~~
greglindahl
What "mentioned group"? - I don't think many/any people think of themselves as
SJWs now that it's pejorative and widely applied to people who never thought
of themselves that way.

~~~
tnone
It's not so much one group as an ideology spread though media and academia,
but some did try to take on the label sincerely in an attempt to reclaim its
reputation (Guardian columnist Laurie Penny comes to mind). Regardless,
columnists like Jessica Valenti, Amanda Marcotte, industry professionals (see
LambdaConf) and cling-ons (Shanley Kane, Adria Richards), activist students
(like Emma Sulkowicz) and professors (like AW Peet) have sought their pound of
blood from Professors (Jordan Peterson), scientists (Tim Hunt, Matt Taylor)
and professionals (Brendan Eich). Accusations of fascism get thrown around,
censorship is demanded, careers and families are targeted. Usually under the
guise of morality and standing up to bullies, despite the timeline of events
and what equal application of policy would say.

They are excellent as seeing themselves on the right side of history, and they
were the ones who pioneered the kind of mobbing and shaming techniques online
that they consider to be harassment and violence when the shoe is on the other
foot.

