
Which countries are on the right track, according to their citizens - zachguo
https://www.ipsos.com/en/what-worries-world-september-2018
======
ciguy
No surprise that countries with the most oppressive internet surveillance and
censorship also rank highly in self reported satisfaction. Chinese citizens
probably got a boost to their social credit score for answering positively on
this survey.

I was just in Beijing and Shanghai for a few weeks and almost everyone I
talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic crash in the near
future. So this survey is essentially useless for countries where privacy on
the internet is not expected and dissent is punished.

~~~
tluyben2
> almost everyone I talked to in private admitted that they expect an economic
> crash in the near future

That is currently the same in every country I talked to citizens. Not a very
good way of measuring.

Your observations about China might very well be correct, but this is not an
interesting point imho. When I speak to my friends in China they worry about
the economy but they do actually believe their country is going in the right
direction generally. Ofcourse my sample of the populous is limited: I speak to
tech people only, but they do not care about the things you or I think they
care or should care about. They are content with the way it is going.

~~~
thatoneuser
There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and
say “uh yeah everything looks fine!”

People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

~~~
mdpye
That's the whole point of the survey, as I read it. You can't look at it and
say it's fine, but they do. That is important to understand.

As a counterpoint, the US polls the lowest concern in the world for poverty
and inequality. Yet there's no way in my mind you can look at inequality in
the states and say "yeah, that's fine", but over 4 in 5 Americans polled said
exactly that.

~~~
ciguy
Of course they say that it's fine. You would too if you could be punished by
your government for saying otherwise.

~~~
yorwba
How would the US government punish someone who complains about poverty and
inequality in the states?

~~~
ciguy
I'm not talking about the Americans, I'm talking about the Chinese saying
things are going well, which is what the first part of the comment I'm
replying to was referring to. Then they shoehorned Americans into the argument
for some reason. I'm saying that I doubt this is just a matter of the Chinese
being blind to the issues in China. It's a matter of them bring unwilling to
risk speaking out.

------
politelemon
I was wondering about how representative this is of the populations. The link
to the survey is broken but I did find this on the Ipos Mori site:

[https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/what-worries-world-
se...](https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/what-worries-world-
september-2018-0)

> The remaining 11 countries surveyed: Brazil, Chile, China, India, Malaysia,
> Mexico, Russia, Peru, Saudi Arabia, South Africa and Turkey have lower
> levels of internet penetration and so these samples should instead be
> considered to represent a more affluent, connected population

I would extend that consideration to most of the countries shown in the
results.

------
FrankDixon
> „[this study] finds X“

without actual details on its methodology, a study doesn‘t find anything.

\- how are the surveyed chosen? \- how do you make sure they are from the
country they claim \- what possible answers can they chose from \- etc.

~~~
hliyan
Some methodology in PDF
([https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-10/www-
september-2018.pdf))

The survey is conducted monthly in 28 countries around the world via the Ipsos
Online Panel system. The countries included are Argentina, Australia, Belgium,
Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, France, Great Britain, Germany, Hungary, India,
Israel, Italy, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Poland, Russia, Saudi Arabia,
Serbia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey and the United States
of America.

An international sample of 20,787 adults aged 18-64 in Canada, Israel and the
US, and aged 16-64 in all other countries, were interviewed between August
24th 2018 and September 7th 2018.

Approximately 1000+ individuals participated on a country by country basis via
the Ipsos Online Panel with the exception of Argentina, Belgium, Hungary,
India, Israel, Mexico, Peru, Poland, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South
Korea, Sweden and Turkey, where each have a sample of approximately 500+.

------
mathieubordere
What worries me is that global warming is not one of the five major worries.
Of course I understand that when you're unemployed, struggling to make ends
meet, global warming is the least of your concerns.

~~~
zachguo
Take a look at the updated 2018 version.

------
the_mitsuhiko
The US results are strange. A lot fewer worry about healthcare and
inequality/poverty than you would expect. In fact only Sweden worries less
about the latter.

~~~
yostrovs
How many would you expect to worry? In a rich country with ample jobs and
cheap food,I don't worry about it much either. I've seen poverty abroad, so
maybe I just don't see what Americans call poverty as poverty.

~~~
the_mitsuhiko
I expect more than half to worry given the number of children in food insecure
households, the lack of retirement savings many americans are confronted with.

You might have seem poverty abroad but there are plenty of countries on this
list that worry more (like Germany) which much better working conditions for
the vast majority of people with little income.

~~~
yostrovs
You're equating "food insecure households" and "lack of retirement savings"
with poverty. In America, the supposedly impoverished, the "food insecure",
are more often obese than not and their retirement, though boring and doesn't
involve golf courses and biannual vacations, doesn't involve starvation, lack
of electricity, television, heating and air conditioning, and other
essentials.

Open up any book from 100 years ago on household maintenance, written usually
for upper and upper middle class women. There you will learn that the laundry
in the apartment building is an incredible luxury, as is the store down the
street, and the fact that you can buy a loaf of bread there for about $1.50.

~~~
the_mitsuhiko
The statistics speak for themselves. If you want to argue them away you are
just further telling me that Americans are indeed more likely than not blind
to those issues when surveyed compared to (some) other countries.

~~~
yostrovs
Yes, statistics speak for themselves. Minimum wage is roughly $10 and a meal
at McDonald's is $4. Perhaps there are reasons for "food insecurity" that are
not the fault of the society in general.

------
erikstarck
The note about Sweden seems a bit off. It is now January and we still don't
have a government formed since the election in September. The politicians have
all showed their worst sides in not getting along and the trust in them has
plummeted. At the same time there are clear signs of a recession coming.

Things are as gloomy as a Bergman-movie in Sweden. Sort of.

~~~
Jolter
Remember, these were the numbers from September, just after the election. Lots
of people would still have their hopes up then.

------
tuukkah
There are newer results from September here: [https://www.ipsos.com/en/what-
worries-world-september-2018](https://www.ipsos.com/en/what-worries-world-
september-2018)

~~~
dang
OK, we changed to that from [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/which-
countries-are-o...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/which-countries-
are-on-the-right-track-according-to-their-citizens/). Thanks!

~~~
Jolter
See Daureg' reply below for November numbers.

------
pergadad
Seems this reflects to a large degree societal values and current debates
rather than the"real" impact. Eg US has a lot bigger inequality and higher
proportion of destitute people than most of Western/Northern Europe, so the
only way to explain the German & Swedish vs US numbers would be by pointing to
the values/expectations and ongoing discourse.

China... You have got to wonder is it that the past was so bad? That people
aren't aware of how bad problems of eg corruption are? Or are they too scared
to say their true opinion ..?

~~~
bognition
> China... You have got to wonder is it that the past was so bad? That people
> aren't aware of how bad problems of eg corruption are? Or are they too
> scared to say their true opinion ..?

I imagine it's more about the citizens feeling like the government and its
leaders have a strong vision and mission for the future of china.

I think the same thing can be seen with the M.A.G.A. movement. Lots of people
are ignoring problems they face on a daily basis and vote against their
interests because they'd rather believe in an ideal that is bigger than
themselves (even if that ideal is a farce).

~~~
SamReidHughes
The reason people broke for Trump was because he actually represented their
interests, unlike the Democrats or the GOP. The problems of crime, illegal
immigrants competing for jobs, and trade with poor countries, all drive down
the quality of life of the working class American.

------
marcosdumay
As a Brazilian, the one thing that gives me some confidence that things will
get better is the low confidence people display on those studies.

~~~
Jolter
Already in the November study, Brazil's confidence is up 22 percentage points,
so yes things are happening. My confidence in Brazil has taken a dive, but I'm
not voting there...

[https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-12/what_worries_the_world_us_dec2018.pdf)

------
wilhil
"upon interviewing the locals, it turns out the winner is North Korea with
160% of residents saying they have full confidence in the leadership"

~~~
throwaway190113
Parent makes the point glibly, but it is very serious.

I have considerable experience talking to people from one of the top places
mentioned and the freedom to answer a survey is far from guaranteed.

To give you an idea of the scale of this (these are real, actual and exact
numbers):

In that country (which I'll name as Northern East Soumania, a small autonomous
island belonging to an African republic, or a similar African country) the
President recently put in a bid to be able to stay President for life. This
required constitutional changes, which were passed by the annual sitting of
parliament.

The vote on this bid was 2,859 votes supporting lifting the term limit, 2
votes against lifting the term limit and 4 abstaining.

Can you imagine that? Can you imagine an American president at the end of
their second term wanting to lift the term limit congressionally and out of
535 members of congress (435 in the house of representatives and 100 in the
senate) 530 voting to remove the term limits, 2 voting against and 4
abstaining? (Actually since the basis is 535 instead of 2,859, I should divide
the against and abstaining voted by 5.5)

I would personally not be surprised if the 2 "against" votes had serious
consequences for their personal life, I mean things like not being able to
travel and so forth. (Despite being members of parliament in that country.)

If I were a member of that country, I probably wouldn't feel free to say in a
survey that the country was not headed in the right direction.

------
lfnoise
Chart unreadable for red/green color blind.

~~~
avaku
I’m one such person. There is still a line in the middle, so it’s ok.

------
lolc
> online survey

Is it representative in some way?

> Data are weighted to match the profile of the population.

No, just the opposite.

~~~
thejohnconway
Weighting is done to make the sample more representative, because voluntary
samples are always demographically biased. You can argue that the way they
weight is wrong in some way, but it’s purpose is exactly to address
representativeness of the survey.

~~~
lolc
When the lone 80-year old that participated is weighted against the hundreds
20-year olds (I'm exaggerating, I hope) we still don't know whether her
opinion is representative for the other 80-year olds that didn't respond.
There is no point of weighing her more than a 20-year old.

My glib comment was about the fact that before weighing, I could have at least
attempted to imagine who would typically respond to such an online-survey.
It's a biased sample. But it's a sample. I could say: Well at least this many
people out of the whole population answered this or that way. Once weighing
mixes things up I don't even know how people responded anymore.

------
Cyclone_
People's perception isn't necessarily an indicator of how well things are
going..

~~~
freddie_mercury
So? No one said it was. Why make up a strawman just to reply?

We could come up with a long list of other things that also weren't claimed
and rebut those as well but I don't really see how it helps advance the
discussion.

------
buboard
Polls like this are not useful for anything. They are, at best, measuring the
temperament of the citizens of a country, and some of them will be overly
negative or positive about anything. It would be interesting if pollsters
attempted to "correct for temperament"

