
“The 's' is sad”: 4-year-old submits Linux kernel doc patch (2014) - wolfgang42
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=690b0543a813b0ecfc51b0374c0ce6c8275435f0
======
gowld
Linus on trivial patches:

[https://lkml.org/lkml/2004/12/20/255](https://lkml.org/lkml/2004/12/20/255)

[ Linux-kernel added back into the cc, because I actually think this is
important. ]

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Jesper Juhl wrote:

> Should I just stop attemting to make these trivial cleanups/fixes/whatever
> patches? are they more noice than gain? am I being a pain to more skilled
> people on lkml or can you all live with my, sometimes quite ignorant,
> patches? I do try to learn from the feedback I get, and I like to think that
> my patches are gradually getting a bit better, but if I'm more of a bother
> than a help I might as well stop.

To me, the biggest thing with small patches is not necessarily the patch
itself. I think that much more important than the patch is the fact that
people get used to the notion that they can change the kernel - not just on an
intellectual level ("I understand that the GPL means that I have the right to
change my kernel"), but on a more practical level ("Hey, I did that small
change").

And whether it ends up being the right thing or not, that's how everybody
starts out. It's simply not possible to "get into" the kernel without starting
out small, and making mistakes. So I very much encourage it...

So please don't stop. Yes, those trivial patches _are_ a bother. Damn, they
are _horrible_. But at the same time, the devil is in the detail, and they are
needed in the long run. Both the patches themselves, and the people that grew
up on them.

~~~
golergka
I really hope that next time when somebody tries to paint Linus as an asshole
and a toxic force for the community because of his rants, someone remembers to
link this email too.

~~~
hyperman1
It demonstrates how Linus is not only a good programmer, but also a good
leader.

I get the same idea as with the first Gordon Ramsey Kitchen-fixing programmes.
Apparently, people said it was insane how he dared to swear on TV. But
basically, he notices things are very wrong, makes sure he gets to the bottom
of the mess, and hammers the ugly message very publicly into some owner who
lost any connection with reality. If the cost is some swearing, that's the
least of the problem. The failing businesses get fixed at least as much on a
sociological level as on a cooking level.

Linus does the same. A big software project's problems are more sociological
than technical in nature. Sometimes, the ugly message has to get trough, an
another famous rant is born. But most of the time, work gets done, probably
with a reasonable amount of smiles.

~~~
robin_reala
The US Kitchen Nightmares are completely faked up drama for US audiences.
Watch some of the original UK ones and you’ll see how he tries to coach the
chefs with comparatively minimal swearing and anger.

~~~
hyperman1
I am indeed mostly talking about the UK versions. The US versions had much
more drama and much less cooking, but underlying it had the same theme.

------
_ikke_
Mailing list thread:
[https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/11/24/407](https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/11/24/407)

    
    
      > When I was reading the documentation, my 4-year-old
      > niece wanted to see what I was doing. After telling her,
      > she noticed that something was very wrong and asked
      > me to fix it. Instead, I helped her fix it herself.

~~~
toddsiegel
Sounds totally plausible. I never cease to be amazed by my 4-year-old's
attention to detail. He notices _everything_.

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
Everything they do is the first time while grownups have done it dozens of
time.

------
commandlinefan
Well, now a 4-year-old has one more kernel patch than I have...

~~~
LyndsySimon
There's nothing stopping you, except finding the time.

One of the things I'm most proud of as a dev is a _tiny_ contribution to the
Nim standard library. It's a single commit and very simple, but made the
PostgreSQL adapter consistent with the other RBDMSs' adapters. At the time,
I'd been using Nim for only a couple of days, but that didn't stop me from
being able to contribute in a meaningful way.

I'm amused and humbled that despite all of the work I've done over the past
decade, it's quite likely that a seven-line change that I did mostly in
ignorance will be the thing that impacts the most people going forward.

Here's the change, if you're curious: [https://github.com/nim-
lang/Nim/pull/6381/commits/921cc53e40...](https://github.com/nim-
lang/Nim/pull/6381/commits/921cc53e40f7d48643c0579ca83dedbfa4c500d0)

~~~
steveklabnik
> I'm amused and humbled that despite all of the work I've done over the past
> decade, it's quite likely that a seven-line change that I did mostly in
> ignorance will be the thing that impacts the most people going forward.

My most popular open source project, by the numbers, is a ~40 line Rack
middleware I wrote when jetlagged at 2am. ~29MM downloads all-time, 984 github
stars.

I think about that all the time.

------
cperciva
So typical of Linux kernel code quality: The commit message refers to a
missing '=' but the commit actually fixes a missing '-'.

;-)

------
DoreenMichele
I kept wondering where to find the change. I didn't initially realize it is
apparently included. But this seems to be it here (from the bottom of the
page):

    
    
       1.9 Ext4 file system parameters
      -------------------------------
      +-------------------------------

~~~
mojomark
For the love of god I still don't see an 's' with a missing (or newly
inserted) "=". I've spent way too much time looking at this

~~~
notatoad
it's slightly confusing, because in the change the first dash on the first
line is a "minus", indicating that line was removed, not part of the line of
dashes. the line of dashes had one dash added to the end of it. (and it was a
dash missing, not an equal)

    
    
           1.9 Ext4 file system parameters
        [-]------------------------------
        [+]-------------------------------

------
yfiapo
I've submitted many such small corrections to OpenBSD to help keep that
standard high. No one will place those contributions on the same level as real
development but I like that I've helped. And I know I appreciate it when even
the documentation is kept at the same bar.

One of the reasons I fell in love with OpenBSD was the commitment to
correctness throughout the entire system. This is a lot harder with Linux
because they only control the kernel and not the entire distribution.

~~~
beefhash
Please keep doing that. I'm still hesitant to contribute to tech@ with code
and have yet to find a fixable issue in the man pages/FAQ in my own usage. But
I do appreciate that the details are oh so right very often.

------
kenneth
This uncannily reminds me of how I first learned to program (at ~10 years old,
not 4, sadly).

Growing up, at my grandparents house, we had a communal old Mac (running OS 7
or 8, and BeOS for a while). Being a curious kid, I would often watch my uncle
play Civilization II, and I would play myself. One day, I went to observe what
he was playing, and instead it was programing in FutureBASIC. It sparked my
interest, and he taught me the basics. This became a lifelong hobby, and I
went from learning FutureBASIC from him, to then discovering a whole world of
information online, learning REALBasic and PHP next, and C, Objective-C, and
more. As a teenager, I made Mac apps and websites, and eventually when the
iPhone came out, mobile apps. This gave me disposable income in high school
(from selling shareware) and funded my one-way ticket and move to Silicon
Valley.

A simple gesture like that, that sparks the right interest, can give someone
an entirely different life and career.

~~~
mistercow
The shareware era of the Mac was a magical time to be a teenage programmer.
It’s one thing to get the validation of an adult’s approval, but something
else entirely to have them _pay_ you for something you built without knowing
your age.

~~~
fjsolwmv
I bought shareware once 30 years ago and never got the promised unlock code in
response. That stopped me paying individual strangers for software via mail.

------
purplerabbit
Love this, but was a bit confused because the patch is 4 years old, a fact
which which confirmed my initial misreading of the patch being 4 years old
(rather than the correct reading that it was by a 4-year-old)

~~~
CGamesPlay
Interesting. I wonder if Maisa has gone on to write any more patches yet!

~~~
berbec
Or if she got corrupted by the dark side and works for FB now!

~~~
unmole
FB employees submit loads of interesting kernel patches.

~~~
berbec
They do indeed! The current state of the open source community owes quite a
bit to for-profit companies working on the code.

------
Torkel
Wonderful story :)

From date in mail list
([https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/11/24/407](https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/11/24/407))
seems like [2014] should be appended.

~~~
LyndsySimon
Nice attention to detail! Perhaps, if you have some time later, you could read
over the Linux kernel docs?

------
oh_sigh
The best part about this story is that it is entirely plausible that a 4 year
old found the problem, unlike a lot of stories where we are supposed to think
there is a 6 year old wunderkind submitting code patches to some OSS project.

------
crankylinuxuser
And here's how you get junior kernel devs :D

I hope you're still hacking on it and other projects, Maisa Roponen... Now 8
year old!

------
marmot777
That is cute.

~~~
zaphar
My coworkers thought I was making a sarcastic comment (apparently I have a
reputation) when I suddenly said out loud "That is adorable!". I then had to
explain what I was talking about.

~~~
marmot777
Its almost tears in my eyes level. I didn’t expect to have that reaction.

~~~
vinceguidry
Yeah, I had the same reaction. I've noticed it whenever I see adults putting
in an undue amount of effort 'just' to maintain a child's innocent expectation
of a certain kind of universal justice.

It's so not a part of the adult lifestyle anymore that suddenly being
confronted with it affects those sensitive to it deeply.

Christmas culture and thematics seems to target this dynamic.

~~~
marmot777
I have a son who’s a small child so I see and encourage that magical world
that we’ve all mostly forgotten about. Young childhood should be a human
being’s respite from cold, hard reality. Of course, things don’t always go
that way for children.

------
jgamman
the difference between a community and a workplace is its tolerance, and need,
for whimsy...

------
booleandilemma
And here I am spending my afternoon tracking down a null reference error...

------
jimjimjim
I like it. and as a bonus she can add kernel dev to her linkedin.

------
insulanian
One has to be born with an eye for details... Well done!

------
black-tea
I'm sure this was fun for the guy who submitted it but in the end just useless
noise on the mailing list.

~~~
chris_wot
“So please don't stop. Yes, those trivial patches _are_ a bother. Damn, they
are _horrible_. But at the same time, the devil is in the detail, and they are
needed in the long run. Both the patches themselves, and the people that grew
up on them.”

~~~
black-tea
I'm sorry but there's no way the 4 year old learnt anything from this. Maybe
the adult did, though. Is that the point?

~~~
caymanjim
She learned that her opinion is valued. She learned that it's ok to question
things. She likely had a sense, based on the activity that followed, that she
effected change in some way. I'm sure it was explained to her, and while of
course she doesn't understand what a kernel or source code are, she surely had
a sense of some positive accomplishment.

~~~
zamalek
The world will become a better place if all kids get this golden treatment. I
wish we could so easily push trivial changes to society but, in a very small
way, this ripple in the ocean did.

~~~
berbec
"See this? We just need to change one little thing. There is a problem with
the program and we can fix it: the president variable is orange. Let's work on
that"

------
DougN7
Does anyone else have serious doubts about a 4 year old reading Linux kernel
code?

------
ProAm
Until a 4-year old can deal with the efficacy in which Linus communicates with
other humans they should not be allowed to submit patches.

~~~
anticensor
It takes some time to get used to Finnish style of management.

~~~
ahje
No worries -- based on their names, I'd say the girl and her uncle are Finnish
as well. :)

