
Tesla Semi - maximente
https://www.tesla.com/semi
======
Someone1234
I'm legitimately surprised this product hasn't ended up with interchangeable
battery packs. Super charging is "fast" compared to regular electrical
charging, but when time is money, it seems like that would be "the" limit that
costs sales.

Keep in mind a lot of trucks don't sit idle while cargo is unloaded by hand,
in many locations they'll just de-couple, pick up outgoing, and be back out of
the gate within 10~15 minutes. With recharge downtime of e.g. 20 minutes,
they've managed to place themselves into an even smaller niche than they would
be already.

By the way, Semis are a massive source of pollution and have proportionately
terrible Mpg while idle or towing light loads. So this is an area ripe for
improvement, and this is an asperational product. I appreciate a big name
trying if for no other reason than it might spur innovation from traditional
trucking companies.

Just because I worry that it isn't viable in the market, doesn't mean I'm not
a fan.

~~~
reaperducer
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in electric vehicles, or trucking,
but it seems that with a 500 mile range, you're getting pretty much to the
limit of what a trucker is legally allowed to drive in the United States each
day. So maybe recharge time isn't that big a deal, since the drivers aren't
supposed to be on the road anyway.

~~~
Someone1234
How much weight is in the trailer for that 500 miles range? If the answer is
zero tons then it is completely meaninless.

The Tesla site doesn't qualify what 500 miles means. For trucks load-range
matters, not empty range.

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waterhouse
The video says "500-mile range at GVW [gross vehicle weight, I assume] &
highway speed", and Musk explicitly says "that's 500-mile range at maximum
weight at highway speed, 60 miles an hour". Roughly 06:36 into the video.

And on the subject of charging, it claims "400 miles of charge in 30 minutes"
around 13:15.

~~~
hajile
Over 4 years or so, batteries that have never been supercharged are at about
90% capacity rather than 80% for frequently fast charged vehicles. Given the
rapid decline of batteries in their final months, that could be equaling an
extra couple years of usable life.

That's an issue in a car, but a massive deal in a semi where they need much,
much larger batteries with much, much larger replacement costs.

The real solution here should have been battery exchange contracts. They make
facilities to slow-charge batteries and semi's pay per mile or kw he put on
the battery. The would be much better for the environment. It would also
enable Tesla decreasing the up front cost by moving some of that cost into
charging fees to encourage adoption.

[https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-
health/](https://www.geotab.com/blog/ev-battery-health/)

~~~
SECProto
There are a ton of factors that go into battery degradation, not just speed of
charging. Also, it varies dramatically depending on the manufacturer - the
4yr/80-90% doesn't line up with real world data from Tesla:
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1270784295733301249?s=19](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1270784295733301249?s=19)

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myself248
Note, the real "killer app" for electric trucks is not long haul, not yet.
Diesel is really, really good at long haul. And arguably, since the engines
are running at a pretty constant speed for a long time, they're pretty
efficient at it.

Electric trucks are first aiming at local and drayage routes, which actually
make up a significant fraction of the trucking industry. You don't have to
capture 100% of the market to make a huge impact.

Drayage trucks are typically back at their home base every night, and spend
their days running containers to and from ports, intermodal yards, and other
shipping depots. These routes aren't actually well-suited to the way diesel
trucks and conventional transmissions work, with lots of local roads, starting
and stopping, idling, etc. They're ideally suited to electrification, even
with fairly small batteries. A typical drayage truck may only put on 200 miles
in a day, with many even less. And they're usually parked overnight, so
recharging isn't that big a deal. (Yes the chargers are still enormous, but
they have hours to spend, it's not like you need to charge the thing in 15
minutes.)

Note that pretty much every "traditional" truck maker has an electric program
in progress with test vehicles on the road, some more serious than others.
Tesla's entry is interesting, but brand loyalty and history may mean it's not
a slam-dunk, if the others can deliver something that works well and still
"feels like" the trucks their owners know and love. Others may fly the
"futuristic" flag with pride. Time will tell!

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kyle_morris_
I know folks have complained about the term Autopilot. It looks like they're
pretty explicit about the driver remaining alert.

 _Enhanced Autopilot helps avoid collisions, a centered driver position
provides maximum visibility and control, and a low center of gravity offers
rollover protection. Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and
active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time._

~~~
chemmail
Complaints are by people who have inaccurate assumptions of the term
autopilot. Autopilot originated in aviation, and has always been an assistant
to the pilot, never a replacement. The term is used accurately, and
complainers are just ill informed. Autopilot has never been what a layman
assumed.

~~~
kohtatsu
> Autopilot has never been what a layman assumed.

This is actually my biggest gripe; it's an awful misnomer that most laymen
don't understand.

I really hope they'll rename it, people have died because of the attitudes
towards Autopilot and it would help address that.

Edit: they did adjust the wording on the Autopilot page to be a lot more
clear.

In February 2019 [https://tesla.com/autopilot](https://tesla.com/autopilot)
opened with:

 _Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars

All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the
hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level
substantially greater than that of a human driver_

[http://web.archive.org/web/20190219105618/https://www.tesla....](http://web.archive.org/web/20190219105618/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot)

Since then it has opened with:

 _Future of Driving

All new Tesla cars come standard with advanced hardware capable of providing
Autopilot features today, and full self-driving capabilities in the
future—through software updates designed to improve functionality over time._

Which helps make the distinction between Autopilot and FSD.

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hourislate
I think this isn't a true Highway truck (Long Haul). It would make a great day
truck and could be recharged every night. It could still be a regional truck.
A company like Walmart that has regional distribution will be the most
interested, since they tend to stick around in <500 mile radius. If you're
long haul it is likely you will be running diesel.

There is also the fact to consider that truck stops aren't setup for charging.
It would require a massive investment. Still very exciting and I can only
imagine the range will increase over time.

~~~
SECProto
I know a lot of national gas chains in Canada (petro-can, Irving) have put in
electric chargers along the Trans Canada. They'll be a lagging source, but I
expect they'll add charging infrastructure for the long haul truckers (while
regional eg Walmart, grocery stores, are more likely to charge at the
destinations)

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ortusdux
I still want to see a system with batteries in the trailer and chargers at the
loading docks. Why stop to charge the cab when your next payload could have
all the energy needed for the trip? Imagine a company that constantly needs to
exchange goods between two locations. With three trailers, one rig, and two
chargers, you could have the rig moving almost constantly. Both endpoints
would have the duration of the round trip to load/unload and charge.

~~~
naikrovek
Those would be very expensive trailers and the current shipping container
ecosystem (and semi trailer ecosystem) could not cope with $100,000 unloaded
trailers just sitting in unsecured areas like normal trailers do today.

You're right that it would be convenient for the driver, but I don't think it
would be convenient for anyone else.

Actual trucking professionals please correct me if I'm wrong about any of
that.

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jokoon
I'm sorry but to me it seems to me that a lot of freight miles could be done
with rail, of course you can't replace road freight (yet?), but in terms of
ton-distances, rail should still be a viable alternative to reduce carbon
emissions on large distances, in many cases. The logistics of course are a
little hairy, but the carbon situation makes it necessary anyways.

~~~
specialist
Did some consulting for a railroad ages ago. They way it was explained to me,
two of the (many) challenges are:

\- the logistics of coupling long trains reduces their flexibility, so favors
bulk goods

\- trucking gets all sorts of direct and indirect subsidies that the railroads
no longer get

I've since wondered if different engines (perhaps EV), different couplings, or
some combo could change the logistics calculus.

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mips_avatar
I remember when the specs were initially announced two years ago. All these
automotive researchers published estimates on what they thought the possible
range of performance and range could be. Those estimates got absolutely blown
out of the water.

------
saagarjha
Interesting that the disclaimer is quite explicit here:

> Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using
> Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.

~~~
Angostura
So don’t call it ‘Autopilot’.

It’s like calling something’food’ with the disclaimer: not to be eaten.

~~~
jryle70
Tesla wasn't even the first one who picked Autopilot name. Chrysler did in
1958. [0]

I'm not so sure why so many people are hung up on Autopilot name. After all
Apple's MagicMouse can't do any tricks, and there is nothing intelligent about
Microsoft's IntelliSense. It's also already mentioned below that autopilot is
prominent on airplanes despite requiring not only one, but two pilots.

[0] - [https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/automotive-
hist...](https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/automotive-history-
capsule-chryslers-1958-auto-pilot-56-years-before-teslas-autopilot/)

~~~
IshKebab
Yes but I don't think anyone expected autopilot to fully drive the car for you
in 1958. Now lots of people think fully driverless cars are already possible,
and Tesla still markets their cars as having "full self driving" (distinct
from "autopilot", but how many people are going to understand that nuance?)

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SECProto
Everyone worried about the charge time/cruise range, I'm just excited for the
improvement to urban environments when electric trucks with regenerative
braking are the only ones allowed in cities. Diesel trucks (and buses) are too
loud for dense urban environments.

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vsskanth
Telemetry in trucks is its own cottage industry due to regulatory reasons.
With the amount of tech in a Tesla Semi they largely eliminate the need for a
separate telemetry vendor. This is an additional revenue stream for Tesla.

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woodandsteel
Some people are complaining the range is not nearly what is needed for long-
range. But it is fine for local and regional trucking, which is a huge source
of carbon and air pollution.

Beyond that, batteries are getting better every year, so the range is going to
keep increasing until it is long-range.

You know, I think a lot of the people who are critical of the Tesla semi are
really members of the fossil fuels forever club who think diesel trucks are
just great.

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ProAm
Whats the charge time? And what is the range of a typical semi these days? Is
500mi average?

~~~
PopeDotNinja
"Range for a diesel semi truck is limited more by the allowable driving hours
for the driver than by the truck itself. It’s not unusual for a truck to have
dual 150 gallon tanks. 300 gallons at an average of 7 MPG gives a non-stop
range of more than 2000 miles."

[https://www.quora.com/What%E2%80%99s-the-average-range-
for-a...](https://www.quora.com/What%E2%80%99s-the-average-range-for-a-diesel-
semi-
truck#:~:text=Range%20for%20a%20diesel%20semi%20truck%20is%20limited%20more%20by,of%20more%20than%202000%20miles).

~~~
castratikron
Wonder if the legal hour limit will be extended if you're using autopilot

~~~
pkaye
I don't think so since the driver still needs to be alert.

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vikramkr
Is there any more detail on the weight of the battery? I skimmed through and
couldn't find anything. If the battery weighs 10,000 pounds, that's a
significant chunk of the 80k lb weight they use as a reference

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new_realist
Originally slated for release in 2019, now hyped out of fear of Nikola. Just a
few days ago the Model Y was the top priority, now it’s the semi.

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walrus01
Can anyone share details on what the two-year payback period looks like, from
the real world perspective of a freight operator? How much money is spent on
diesel for a long haul truck freight operation? Obviously it depends on
distance. But I have heard that a figure of 8 miles per gallon would not be
wildly off the mark.

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ksherlock
[2017]

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broooder
How does it make turns?

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peter_d_sherman
Looks absolutely awesome!

We love you, Elon!!!

