
 Taiwan’s ‘White Shirt Army,’ spurred by Facebook, takes on political parties - RougeFemme
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/taiwans-white-shirt-army-spurred-by-facebook-takes-on-political-parties/2013/11/10/4a1fde52-46e4-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_story.html?hpid=z3
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maaku
> While China considers Taiwan a rebellious province to be reunified with the
> mainland, by force if necessary, Taiwan insists on its rights as a self-
> governed entity...

Hate to be that guy that pulls the issue back to unification when moving
beyond that is so obviously the point of this white shirt movement... but this
has really got to stop. Every mainstream news outlet repeats the above in
articles about Taiwanese politics, but look absolutely ridiculous when they do
so. The Republic of China has governed in various forms since 1912. The
People's Republic is the upstart rebellion, and Taiwan the last holdout of the
older RoC government. Anything else is a gross rewrite of history and
communist propaganda, and really annoying to see in print from an otherwise
respectable newspaper.

Is this a lack of fact checking? Or appeasement of mainland China? Either way
looks very bad for an independent news organization.

~~~
codexon
But the PRC has been in control of China for 60 years and has more than a tiny
island. While the PRC used to be a rebellion, that was a long time ago.

~~~
eob
I'm pretty sure you are replying with the assumption that maaku was making a
statement about who should be recognized as "China".

I believe he was actually making a statement about the legitimacy of the
Taiwanese claim to sovereignty over their own island. Mainland claims to
ownership over the island have to be argued from a historical context, since
they haven't actually had any administrative control over the island for over
100 years. So maaku was responding to this argument (without actually invoking
it) by saying that if the question is "who was there first, the KMT or the
PRC" then the KMT technically wins since it both predates the PRC and has
maintained uninterrupted control until Taiwan became a democracy.

Of course.. the situation is actually more complicated than that because the
KMT and PRC are both mainland governments forced upon Taiwan (one successful
and one still hoping), while Taiwan has its own history, language, and
ethnicities. So in an even broader historical context both are technically
"invaders." Such is the fate of all small island nations, perhaps...

~~~
maaku
Correct, on all accounts.

~~~
codexon
> legitimacy of the Taiwanese claim to sovereignty over their own island

Taiwan has been dominated by Han Chinese ever since the 1600s. It is less of
"Taiwanese" trying to govern their own island than the ROC fleeing communism
to a distant province that was too hard to invade and too small to care about.

Even though it has been left to rule itself mostly for all these years, that
does not make it a sovereign nation any more than Hong Kong to China or Puerto
Rico to the US.

------
singold
One page article [http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/taiwans-
whi...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/taiwans-white-shirt-
army-spurred-by-facebook-takes-on-political-
parties/2013/11/10/4a1fde52-46e4-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_print.html)

------
paulhauggis
"The rebellious youths in the movement say they are less concerned about what
Taiwan calls itself — sovereign, independent or a self-governing area within
China"

If Taiwan was an area within China, they wouldn't be able to have this group
in the first place and most forms of Democracy would be gone. This is why many
of the people are so passionate about their beliefs in staying independent. At
the moment, it truly is a free country.

I know many of the social meetup group sites don't work well in China, because
you aren't allowed to meet with more than 10 people at a time. I believe it's
because the government is afraid you will try to organize a big group to
overthrow them.

Here are some more examples:

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23795294](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23795294)

Here is a breakdown of their new "rumor" law:

[http://www.dailydot.com/news/china-decree-online-rumors-
pris...](http://www.dailydot.com/news/china-decree-online-rumors-prison-time/)

~~~
zhemao
I think you misunderstand the political debate. Neither the KMT nor the DPP
wants Taiwan to be under the control of the PRC government. The difference is
that the KMT wants Taiwan and the mainland to be reunited under the ROC
government, while the DPP wants Taiwan to be an independent country.

~~~
paulhauggis
My point is that it seems this group doesn't care about being part of China,
but they should.

~~~
zhemao
You're saying that they should care because if Taiwan was part of China, it
wouldn't be a free country anymore. I am saying that this is false because
neither of the two main parties wants Taiwan to fall under the control of the
PRC regime, which is what makes the mainland unfree. What the KMT wants is for
Taiwan and the mainland to be reunited under an ostensibly democratic regime.

This is, of course, unlikely to happen unless something changes drastically on
the mainland, making it somewhat of a pointless debate as far as Taiwanese
politics is concerned. Unless the PRC invades Taiwan or collapses, there isn't
much of a chance for reunification. What the whiteshirts want is to refocus
attention on issues that affect Taiwan in the present day.

