
Houston Yelp reviews include the word "racist" 4 times more often than average - slykat
http://saikatbhadra.tumblr.com/post/61022451078/yelp-does-houston-have-the-most-racist-nightlife-out
======
joonix
Nightclubs in Houston try to keep minorities out because white people will
call a place "ghetto" if it has a lot of blacks or Hispanics. It's not hard to
figure out. Growing up in Houston I saw countless venues quickly disappear as
soon as word spread that they were "ghetto." What basically happens is the
young white women feel uncomfortable around "ghetto" men, so they go
elsewhere. Young men go where the young women are.

You can blame the patrons, not the owners. The owners are behaving rationally,
sadly.

~~~
bilbo0s
That's EXACTLY right... Houston is all about what I would call "Rationality".

It cuts the other way as well.

I live in Houston.

I'm one of the pricks driving all of the prices up inside the 610. I live
behind the gates you see when you drive down Sunset.

Recently, I went to lunch with an acquaintance who is black. We went to a
pretty nice place in Third Ward, where we met up with his friends. Being the
frank [person] that I am, I professed to surprise that there would be such an
upscale restaurant in Third Ward. (It had prices to match.) At which point
they explained to me that it's common knowledge that if black people go out to
eat in Houston, they should do so in Third Ward. So as to avoid... let's just
say... "added ingredients" in their meals.

What struck me as I contemplated the conversation on the way home from
lunch... was that very intelligent and successful blacks believed that the
integrity of their food would be compromised if they did not eat in Third
Ward. Now I realize that the reality is that this belief probably has a good
basis in fact, so I completely understand their tendency to eat at restaurants
with open kitchens, or at restaurants in Third Ward.

And that was the rub, there IS a sort of self-segregation that was going on...
but it's all based on decisions that are completely rational for the
individual. In the single case of black eating habits for instance, if a few
knuckleheads in Houston are more likely than they are in other cities to ...
say ... add bodily fluids to the food of black patrons... then blacks will
tend to eat at their own restaurants.

Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget
head. Probably, quite unknowingly.

Are the blacks racist? Not really. They just don't want to eat food that is
potentially contaminated with bodily fluids. Quite understandably.

So everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational manner... and the
results can still seem pretty ugly.

I know Houston pretty well... and I think that is the sort of thing that is
coming out in these Yelp reviews. The ugly ways that race and rationality
intersect in an economy or society.

~~~
lambda
> So everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational manner... and the
> results can still seem pretty ugly

Sorry, what? "Everyone can act in an honest, forthright, and rational way"?

The people adding "added ingredients" to their meals are acting in an honest,
forthright, and rational way?

This isn't "rationality", it's acting like a racist asshole.

Now, it's not surprising if black people avoid places that have a bunch of
racist assholes. But that doesn't mean that what's going on is self-
segregation; that's overt, racist segregation on the part of the knuckleheads
who are spitting in their food.

I'm really having a hard time following what you're trying to say, because it
feels like you're trying to say "well, that's what happens when everyone acts
rationally", and I'm not really seeing that, I'm seeing a lot of people acting
in a racist manner.

~~~
Retric
I think the point is even if 9/10 places to eat where safe people would still
avoid them simply because of 3rd party's that are not working at those safe
places. Aka the risk is somewhat independent of the restaurants actions.

~~~
lambda
From the above post:

> Are the restaurants racist? Not really. They just happened to hire a nugget
> head. Probably, quite unknowingly.

He seems to be implying that "restaurants" (I guess he means the cooks, and
owners who don't stop the cooks) who spit in black people's burgers aren't
racist.

Even if, as you say in trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, he's
talking about third parties who aren't working there, the restaurant has a
responsibility to not allow patrons to disrupt other patron's meal. If someone
were to spit in my food, and the restaurant didn't kick them out, I'd sure as
hell be pissed off at that restaurant.

Racism (and other forms of discrimination based on who you are rather than
what you do) is insidious and evil, and needs to be stood up against, not just
passively saying "well, that's what they do, what are you going to do." It is
fundamentally wrong to treat a person as a category, rather than an
individual.

~~~
bilbo0s
Guy...

look... the owner may not even be around when a cook or waiter compromises
someone's food. How can you say that the owner is a bigot simply because he or
she has bigots working for him or her.

I've run into MANY bigots in San Francisco for instance. Many work at Apple,
Facebook, Google and Yahoo. Does that, then, imply that the senior executives
at these firms are bigots? At some point, you need to trust your employees.
You only know what you see, and you can't see everything. This does not make
you a racist... it makes you a human.

------
codygman
For those trying to say this proves nothing... I'd say this review proves it:

"She knows the door guys, owner, DJ, everyone. She had a reserved spot for
25-30 people. As soon as the party kicked off, the trouble started. Every
person in her party that tried to get in, that wasn't white, was stopped at
the door."

Combined with the profile history and look of it, it seems Ashlee M is a real
person. Also according to those here claiming they live in Houston, it's very
believable and (logical, yet immoral and illegal) that this is happening.

Given all the evidence here I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of
money that my girlfriend (who is black) and I would be turned away from
vintage.

------
crummy
One thing I'd note is that a potential city that is very racist but with a
racially homogeneous population probably would have few reviews that include
the word "racist" on Yelp.

~~~
slykat
That's a vey good point (and a key weakness in this analysis). However, a
counter-point is that a racially homogenous population probably will have a
lower incidence of racist issues since by definition their minority population
is low, and the aim of this was try to gauge a metric for prevalence of racist
issues.

------
cobrausn
You didn't find racism, you found accusations of racism made on the internet.
The difference is enough to make me think the title should be different.

A larger number of accusations of racism might indicate a problem, but there
is no way to get there from just the data available on yelp.

Disclaimer: Live in Houston. Not super-attached, but figured we may as well
get that out there.

~~~
slykat
I think the bigger question is why does Houston look so different when you
compare to other cities? Yes, I can't tie it to incidents of racism, but
something must be driving the fact that the term occurs dramatically higher
than any of the large cities.

Disclaimer: I was born and raised in Houston.

~~~
angersock
Houston is pretty much the perfect example of the once-touted multiethnic
future of the US. We've got a large number of people, a large diversity of
socioecoethnic backgrounds, and we are a much more integrated city due to lack
of zoning and only relatively recent gentrification.

Additionally, note that there was an (arguably recent) influx of folks from
New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina--that had lasting economic and
demographic impacts on large parts of Houston, especially around Reliant.

~~~
hieronymusN
Ahhh yes, The Katrina Refugee Boogeyman raises its head. Figured it would make
an appearance at some point. Houston has always been a trigger happy city (I
grew up there, 3rd generation) with high crime zones particularly in the
Southwest section. Katrina refugees didn't make that happen.

~~~
angersock
Hey, I'm not saying it's either good or bad--I'm merely pointing out that
there was a large migration of people from point A to point B.

I used to live across from Reliant a few years ago--many neighbors were folks
that had resettled in Houston from New Orleans.

------
diminoten
A club would last about three seconds if they did this in my hometown,
Washington, D.C. It's just plain not realistic here.

There are certainly bars patronized mostly by black men and women, however I
doubt they'd disallow a white person entry. In that way I suppose a certain
self-segregation exists, but it's not like black people aren't going to every
bar in the city, just like white people. It's not really an issue I'm aware of
here. Maybe this is just a Huston thing?

------
BigChiefSmokem
Everything is bigger in Texas.

~~~
slykat
I think that's unfair given that there are 3 cities (Dallas, San Antonio,
Austin), that didn't show the same frequency of using the term.

~~~
angersock
Houston is a far, far more diverse and integrated city than those other ones,
I venture.

~~~
steveklabnik
Than Austin?

~~~
angersock
Yes. We're a port city, we're the fourth largest city in the United States,
and all of this in a non-student population (sorry longhorns).

It's part of why this is such a baller place to be living right now.

EDIT:

To wit:

[http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/07/01/195909643...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/07/01/195909643/tx2020-houston-
racial-ethnic-diversity-americas-future)

------
trustfundbaby
I live in Austin, came of age there and despite having a lot of Friends in
Houston, I didn't really start trying to hit up the nightlife there till I was
well out of college. Even then I didn't actually have any problems till I
started trying to get into the bars and clubs that were more ... shall we say
... "white" (close to Rice, Washington Ave etc)

I point out being from Austin, because over here, clubs don't even charge
cover, you just walk in and out of whatever club or bar you want. So going to
Houston, it took me a while to realize that all the time we spent waiting in
line, or that getting turned away from clubs for having "torn jeans" or jeans
that were too baggy was actually racist nonsense.

In one particular incident I will never forget, my buddy and I were trying to
get into a club called Drake, when it first opened (its now a "black" club,
which is pretty ironic) but at the time we showed up pretty early (by Texas
standards) ie about 11pm so that we could avoid any hassles with the bouncer
... but we got told to wait ... so we waited ... and waited and waited ...

People would line up behind us, and then after about 10 minutes, disappear,
and then they'd get into a "VIP" line and be whisked in. It was a fairly
upscale crowd, and we were still young-ish so we just figured we just didn't
have the pull those people did, one particular girl and her posse came in
chatted with us and got in through VIP (this is significant for later) ...
After waiting about an hour, we decided to leave so we could get in elsewhere
before we blew the night (clubs close at 2am) ... on our way out, we bumped
into the "friendly" girl who was also leaving after being in there for about
15 minutes ... and after a few pleasantries she asked us why it had taken that
long for us to leave ...

we looked at each other for a bit, confused and then she said "you really
didn't know they don't let black people in that club?"

She was white.

So yeah, I don't party in Houston, or if I do, I stick to "black clubs". Its a
shame really, but I know Houston pretty well and I think the explanation for
this (apart from good ol' fashioned Texas racism) is that its so big. Its easy
to find people like you there, so people form groups and simply don't mix,
which makes more sense once you factor in the racism. In Austin for example,
the same dynamics are there, but everybody just has to party together because
its so small ... but as the population has grown bigger, racist incidents have
been on the uptick. As in ... an Asian lady called me and another lady friend
of mine the n-word to our faces just a few weeks ago (we were literally just
standing around ordering food, and she stumbled up to the food-truck half-
drunk, spotted us and went "uh oh ... n __ __s " ... I kid you not). That
hasn't happened to me in Austin in almost 10 years ... I think

Thats just how Texas is, which is a fucking shame.

------
static_typed
The danger is that real racism, which is a scurge we should all fight against
ends up being lost in a sea of complaints, accusations and suggestions of
racism.

The reality is that there are a few vocal people with might powerful shoulders
out there, well, the shoulders should be strong for the size of the chip they
seem to carry on it, and their complaining tends to drown out the quieter
voices of those who do actually suffer.

------
zoner
You found not racism, but ranting caused by frustration as you are writing it
in your blog.

Clean, pure racism can be found not in the crowd and not in any pub, but in
silent people's mind.

It does not hurt, it does not rant. It will only silently kill when it sense
it's family in danger. A danger which is coming from a different culture. You
can call it racism, but it remains natural instinct of subsistence.

~~~
w1ntermute
> It will only silently kill when it sense it's family in danger.

Or when oneself is in danger, in the case of Zimmerman.

~~~
sixbrx
It's assuming a lot to say that that was racism killing, it's more a guy
killing - who in your own words was "in danger". Justified or not.

