
CNC Fabric Cutting - zdw
http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=1827
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wigiv
Site is down, so I'm winging this comment until I can check again later or
find an archive, but I wanted to note that my company has cut all kinds of
fabric (and also food!) using a "water-only" (ie, no entrained abrasive)
method with an ultra-high-pressure CNC waterjet.

Depending on the material and tolerances, you can cut through significant
stacks simultaneously to save time, and with the correct settings and setup
you get very little splashback or other wetting.

Since the 60,000+ PSI stream is coming out of the nozzle at something like
mach 2, the water is travelling too fast to make the edge wet!

~~~
mdorazio
This is really interesting since waterjet often doesn't work well for non-
rigid materials. Do you have to add a backer to keep the fabric stiff/in place
or are you able to just rely on the thickness of a stack to keep it properly
placed and non-moving?

~~~
wigiv
For floppy materials we use a few approaches: first, instead of putting the
material on the standard "metal slat" bed, we use a product called Rhino
Board, which is essentially a whole bunch of plastic straws glued together
into a rigid mat. It provides more granular support. For materials still
needing more support, we put a sacrificial board (either OSB or plastic
sheeting) underneath. And for materials that we can't glue down, or are even
more problematic, we also put a sacrificial sheet on top.

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Pfhreak
Interesting. Author describes a few methods for cutting fabric on a
hypothetical fabric CNC. Lasers are out because of the impact to the material,
so they investigate a few cutting options:

Blade - Cuts well, but drags material

Roller - Cuts well, but needs heavy downforce and overcuts the fabric border

Scissors - A mechanical nightmare

The author suggests a reciprocating blade might solve the issue, but
introduces other complexities (it destroys the material underneath.

A reciprocating blade seems like a much more complex solution than trying to
solve a fabric rigidity issue or heaviness issue from a rolling blade. Like,
if you are already considering a sacrificial material, why not sandwich the
fabric between two rigid, high friction materials, and have the knife cut
through all three?

I think about this a lot, as the partner does a lot of sewing, and a
significant amount of time is spent on cutting pattern pieces. It seems like
such a solvable problem, but also, such a challenging problem.

~~~
adrianmonk
If my memory can be trusted, then it can be done with a high-pressure water
jet. As a kid, my class took a field trip to a factory that did this. I
remember being fascinated by the idea that water could cut.

EDIT: No need to trust my memory:

[https://wardjet.com/waterjets/water-
only](https://wardjet.com/waterjets/water-only)

[https://textilelearner.blogspot.com/2015/07/fabric-
cutting-b...](https://textilelearner.blogspot.com/2015/07/fabric-cutting-by-
water-jet-cutting.html)

\---

Incidentally, this was a long time ago (~1980?), and another thing we saw was
a computer whose operator explained that to boot it up, they had to go through
a sequence involving toggle switches on the front panel. Someone commented
that it sounds impossible, and the operator said it gets easy after a while.

They also had some stations for design work with basically a drafting table
and a mouse-like device with a ~12 key keypad on it and I think a glass with a
reticle, presumably for aligning with points on a blueprint or something like
that.

~~~
grawprog
We had a waterjet at the granite shop we worked at for cutting stone slabs.
Even after years of working there, I'd still just sit and stare at it
sometimes fascinated.

That thing was always a hassle with maintenance though and sometimes things on
the intensifier would explode....

Programming it was pretty cool. Different than the routers I programmed. We
had a camera system rigged up that could take photos of the slab. The cad
files were then loaded in and dropped and arranged on the stone.

The guy that did it at our shop was really good at matching everything.
Connecting the veins for pieces that needed to be joined or mitered.

~~~
ortusdux
A friend operates one at a granite shop. They use a software that maps the
surface and then uploads it to a webapp that lets the customer choose the
pattern layout.

One thing I found interesting about water jets is that you absolutely do not
want to be cut by one. The force is strong enough that it can inject the
abrasive garnet into your bloodstream. The machine I actually came with
instructional tags to pin to the shirt of anyone headed to the ER.

~~~
grawprog
>A friend operates one at a granite shop. They use a software that maps the
surface and then uploads it to a webapp that lets the customer choose the
pattern layout.

That would have been pretty cool. One of the biggest holdups to our schedule
used to be waiting for customers to confirm layouts before cutting. They
always come into the shop to verify.

We used old unsupported software called stonecam from Park Industries. Only
one guy still working there had any experience with the software. We ended up
having to recalibrate the camera on the machine while I was there. It involved
manually configuring variables in text files with variable names written in a
mix of German and English. Apparently the software was written by one German
guy who vanished some time ago who never told anyone else how it all worked
completely.

They'd switched to officially supporting AlphaCam a while ago. We had licenses
for our two routers for alpha cam but they were ten grand a piece and the boss
was holding out as long as possible before switching the waterjet over.

>The force is strong enough that it can inject the abrasive garnet into your
bloodstream

Oh wow had no idea about that. I figured you absolutely did not want to get
your body into the flow, but never heard that.

------
brk
Site is down, but from the cache link posted, this looks like an exploration
into DIY CNC fabric cutting, recognizing that higher volume/higher price
alternatives already exist in the market.

Basic CNC control seems to mostly be a solved problem these days, there are
lots of options that product reasonably good precision using stepper motors,
lead screws, and some open-source software.

The challenge for CNC cutting fabric for low cost/low volume applications
seems to revolve around what to use to make the actual cut. In this segment,
there does not appear to be a clear option for something that works reliably,
without a lot of material waste, and within the budget of a bespoke garment
producer.

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pimlottc
Google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p%3D1827&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS898US898&strip=1&vwsrc=0)

~~~
msla
Archive:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20200919222512/http://www.neufel...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200919222512/http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=1827)

------
NileTheGreat
Related question: any good recommendations for garment/fabric specific CAD
software out there?

As purely a passing interest I recall trying to find a platform years ago but
being disappointed with what I found.

I've always wanted to design the 'perfect' (for me) laptop bag but found the
task daunting. This is coming from someone whose worked with Lasers/CNC
Mills/CNC Routers/3D Printers/traditional mechanical & electrical CAD enough
to be comfortable with the concepts of computer aided design and machine
operation.

~~~
throwaway9d0291
Unfortunately most of the standard stuff (Optitex, Gerber) is industrial
software with "contact us" pricing.

What I've found works best for me is:

\- Seamly2D ([https://seamly.net/](https://seamly.net/)) and Valentina
([https://gitlab.com/smart-pattern/valentina](https://gitlab.com/smart-
pattern/valentina)) - these are two forks of an open-source project. They do
pretty much everything I want them to do.

\- Clo3D: [https://www.clo3d.com/](https://www.clo3d.com/) \- horrendously
expensive subscription software ($50/month or $450/yr) but there are.. Uh...
Less legal options available online. My favourite aspect of this particular
software is that it lets you view the constructed object (usually a garment)
in 3D and run physics simulations on it.

I've tried Optitex and Gerber as well but despite being the standard in
industry, I don't find them to be great pieces of software. Of the two,
Optitex is much better than Gerber but both are really hard to use.

I think Clo3D is probably the most approachable option but it does cost.
Seamly2D/Valentina have a steeper learning curve than Clo3D but they're also
much more capable when it comes to design and in particular, parametric
design.

------
throwaway9d0291
I actually went down the laser route but I'm mostly interested in synthetic
fabrics. To address the TFA's concerns:

\- You don't need a whole lot of power for the kinds of synthetic fabrics
you'd want to wear. I use a 20W laser from AliExpress that outputs ~7.5W of
actual energy.

\- Safety is definitely a big concern. The biggest problem is that a lot of
synthetic fabrics produce lethally toxic gases when cut with a laser. However
if you build an enclosure, you can filter the exhaust to ensure that it's
safe.

\- Don't know why liability is a problem, not American.

\- It won't scorch most synthetic fabrics, it will melt them. However this is
often a good thing, as it seals the edges so that they won't fray.

They also have a huge advantage: they're cheap and easy. My 1000x1000mm laser
cutter cost me ~$120 from AliExpress. Just had to screw it together and it
worked out of the box.

At the very least, you can use it to cut out paper patterns for you or put cut
marks onto the fabric.

~~~
leoedin
What model of laser cutter do you have? $120 is very cheap - is it any good?

~~~
throwaway9d0291
It's AliExpress, they typically don't have model numbers.

It's nothing life changing but it does what it says it does.

It doesn't need to be expensive for a job like this. It's just:

\- An Aluminium profile frame

\- Stepper + belt driven axes

\- A laser module

\- Probably <$10 worth of control electronics (an Arduino and some cheap
stepper drivers)

\- A cheap DC power supply

I'm pretty sure the most expensive part is the laser module but those go for
~$30-40 on their own.

------
jagged-chisel
If you take a Backstage Magic Tour at Walt Disney World, the costuming
department has some kind of [magical] CNC fabric cutter that does a single
layer of fabric quickly and cleanly, apparently cookie-cutter style. You see
the design on an LCD screen, the operator places the fabric, the machine
closes on the fabric, it makes quiet slapping sounds for a few seconds, and it
opens revealing the perfectly cut piece.

You're not permitted to take photos of the machine. Textile cutting isn't my
thing, so I don't know how it works, but I found it mildly interesting.

------
robga
One of the most abiding memories of my trip to North Korea 8 years ago was the
ubiquity of the CNC Song
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPlTX2a974](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPPlTX2a974)

I can't read about CNC's without whistling the tune.

~~~
082349872349872
I can think of only one other CNC-themed pop video, and that requires thinking
of string-trio Rammstein covers as pop.

~~~
5m17h
Have a link?

~~~
082349872349872
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfFtPFJWufs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfFtPFJWufs)

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imtringued
I'm really confused. What this person is looking for is a "oscillating
tangential knife". Lots of hobby CNC machine manufacturers offer it as an
option. A medium sized CNC machine + knife will probably cost around $5k.
Smaller machines are cheaper but you get less value per dollar.

------
bsder
Okay, I'll bite. This is an interesting idea, but "Why?"

The hypothetical use case "Made to measure suits for women" is one that a
human with scissors does just fine. I suspect a single person with scissors
can do this in less than an hour. The tailoring and sewing is _FAR_ more time
consuming.

The point of CNC is either to 1) enable repeatable volume or 2) enable
something that couldn't be done before. This falls into neither category.

~~~
UncleEntity
> ...enable something that couldn't be done before.

They want to take critical measurements and automagically generate the pattern
for the suit.

Kind of like the custom bra manufacturer that was making the rounds a while
back I suppose.

~~~
bsder
Erm ... she did a post mortem on that bra manufacturer.

Something like "cutting the fabric" didn't even rank on why the business
failed.

