
Microsoft to invest in Cyanogen - pluc
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/01/microsoft-to-invest-in-cyanogen-hopes-to-take-android-away-from-google/
======
chambo622
I've been a fan of CyanogenMod for years. My brother and I ported ICS [1] and
Jelly Bean [2] versions of CM back to the original HTC G1. I've run it on
every phone I've ever owned, and even had my parents running it for a time.

But it's hard to reconcile some of the public blunders that Cyanogen has made
since becoming a company. Their OEM relationships with Oppo, OnePlus and
Micromax seem haphazard and volatile, and it's not clear they present any real
advantages to the consumer. As far as I know, the Oppo N1 isn't supported
anymore, and while the OnePlus One is theoretically still supported at least
in some markets, Jelly Bean is nowhere to be found, and OnePlus is off doing
their own ROMs now.

Distractions like Nextbit's "Baton"[3] (a risky bet on an idea that doesn't
appear to work with the majority of apps) leave me wondering what Cyanogen's
real value proposition is.

It will be interesting to see where this is headed, and I hope CM remains
faithful to their core community and support the maintainers that keep
bringing to CM to the masses.

[1]
[http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/24/2584340/android-4-0-aosp-...](http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/24/2584340/android-4-0-aosp-
ported-to-the-htc-g1-in-alpha-form) [2]
[http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/9/3229163/android-4-1-ported-...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/9/3229163/android-4-1-ported-
to-the-venerable-htc-g1) [3]
[https://nextbit.com/about/](https://nextbit.com/about/)

~~~
INTPenis
Well put.

Stock android is actually much more stable than the CM that ships with
OnePlus. At least imho.

A friend is already selling his, after about 6 months with the phone. I
haven't had it much longer but long enough to clearly see that stock android
up to 4 offered much better usability.

The bugs I endure in the OnePlus just because I am sick of switching phones
every year are borderline insufferable.

~~~
Cyph0n
I'm actually planning on buying one and now you make me worried. What are the
bugs you're encountering?

~~~
INTPenis
Ok get ready for a rant about 1st world problems.

It seems confused about sound. I had to uninstall Google Play completely so my
official JBL OnePlus headset wouldn't start playing music in Google Play
instead of Spotify.

These issues continued when I made my first audio recording. I was at the
doctors and recorded the meeting, after that every time I try to play music
from my headset it starts that audio recording. Even though the audio
recording program is closed several reboots ago. Workaround is to open the
phone, start spotify playing, pause, then I can use the headset as normal.

The worst bugs in a phone are bugs in the actual phone feature, imo. And in my
case CM seems confused about the screen when I'm in a conversation. It's
supposed to darken when I move the screen to my ear but it never lights up
again when I move the phone away from my ear. Often I have to unlock the phone
to end a call. The headset also seems unable to end calls, only answer them.

Waking up it's very sluggish, sometimes unresponsive. It has this "knock
knock" feature where it wakes up if you tap the screen twice. This feature
worked for a day or two when it was new, then stopped working for several
weeks until I tried installing a stock android image on it and failed,
reverted to CM and then the knock-knock worked again.

Even though the knocking works to wake it up, it often will not accept input
for those first few taps after it wakes up so you end up having to erase your
unlock code and start over a lot.

And speaking of stock android. Since none of my friends with stock android
phones, nor me with my Nexus 7 at home, seemed to suffer these issues I
decided to try the official stock android images from OnePlus.

I ended up in a reboot loop issue that has been reported on the bug tracker
and on the forums. The problem is that I can't have my sim lock on if I want
to install the android image because then it keeps rebooting the phone as soon
as I unlock it. So I had to revert back to CM because I didn't feel like
disabling the sim lock was a good option.

I could probably go on if you give me some time to think about it, there are
definitely more bugs that I have experienced in my short time with this phone.

On a personal note, I was intrigued by CM because I am a FOSS junkie and know
that it's a fork of android. I've had phones like the N900, ZTE Firefox OS and
Jolla in the past. I love ideas like Replicant. So you understand why I bought
the OnePlus. But in retrospect I should have just gotten an Xperia or an HTC
since they have both provided models with unlocked boot loaders and Sony have
even opened up their Android source code.

~~~
davorb
I haven't had any of these problems myself. I get what you mean with "wakeup
is somewhat sluggish", but I believe that is because of an option that
prevents the screen from accidentally turning on when it is your pocket, and
that can be disabled.

The only bug I've had is that it refused to automatically connect to a
particular wifi network. I fixed that by removing the network and adding it
again.

~~~
saiya-jin
I have couple more (definitely having an issue at the end of call having
screen locked)

\- sometimes it starts playing my Shuffle player out of blue, while being in
pocket (but for last months it didn't happen)

\- sometimes my Sygic car navigation fails to catch up in plain open terrain
for very long time (though this might not be related to OS at all)

\- if phone is not on cable, I can be 1 hour next to known wifi and it will
still use my limited 3g connection. Once i turn on screen, in 2-3 secs it's
in. Same goes for some messaging apps (ie whatsapp)

overall OK phone for the price (especially when seeing colleague's Moto X
being bricked/losing all data few times from google's updates), but far from
bugless.

~~~
INTPenis
>\- if phone is not on cable, I can be 1 hour next to known wifi and it will
still use my limited 3g connection. Once i turn on screen, in 2-3 secs it's
in. Same goes for some messaging apps (ie whatsapp)

I just remembered this happens to me too.

------
felixrieseberg
I'm an Open Source Engineer, working for Microsoft, _living_ in Cyanogen Inc's
former hq/office.

I don't know anything about this deal, but I adore how small Silicon Valley
sometimes is.

~~~
AceJohnny2
I'm curious, what's does your job entail? This question partially stems from
the obsolete understanding of Microsoft's relationship to open source, but
also wondering how it compares to other open source business models that
provide support for open source packages.

~~~
felixrieseberg
Happy to explain a bit! I work with developers out there, putting code on
GitHub, contributing to other projects or making our own stuff work better
with open source projects. I also "hack" on our new and upcoming products (we
have a bunch of hardware announced and already out there where SDKs haven't
been released yet), trying to see how well they play with "the open source
world". I also visit dev conferences around the world, talking about the code
we wrote and the lessons we learned.

My job is kind of awesome - I'm basically at a full-time hackathon, juggling
my MacBook, Windows Notebook, a bunch Cloud solutions, some IoT devices and
whatever our hardware teams come up with.

The team is brand new - and we're still hiring. Hit me up (felixrieseberg.com
/ @felixrieseberg) if you're interested!

~~~
h43k3r
Hey Felix, I will be joining Microsoft this summer ( Visual Studio Team ). Any
Idea how one can move to working on Open Source stuff like you are doing.

~~~
antics
I work at MSFT too, and have been involved with open sourcing a major project,
called Bond[1]. I'm happy to chat about this offline, if you like. Email is in
the profile.

The short answer is that there are divisions in the company with a direct
imperative to open source things, so if your manager is willing to encourage
this (easy enough to figure out), the answer is often yes. Like almost every
company, we tend to open source tools but not products (e.g., yes to Orleans,
but no to the game it supports, Halo), so from there it's a matter of finding
a group that has such tools, or is open to developing them.

Felix (who works for my old boss -- hi Felix!) is a special case. He works for
a team called strategic engagements, whose job (I hope he'll correct me if I'm
wrong) is specifically to engage with the public, usually on their own terms,
which often involves non-MSFT tech. _That_ is an uncommon job, but if you want
to talk to people in the group, just ping me when you get here and I'll put
you in touch with the dev manager for the group.

[1] [https://github.com/Microsoft/bond](https://github.com/Microsoft/bond)

------
jhou2
I scrolled through the comments looking for the obligatory hell freezing over
snark remark.

Cyanogen is arguably the only creditable opposition to the Google Android
hegemony. It's nice to see MS recognize that and support it. Too bad MS shut
down the Nokia Android fork in its nascency.

It would be interesting to see if they can get more windows and windows phone
compatibility into Android.

~~~
fredgrott
no you clearly do not understand AOSP..

Cyanogen follows Google AOSP rules and thus doe snot oppose Google in anyway
shape or form..

and despite MS actions Nokia, the other part MS did not buy is going ahead
with an android fork.

~~~
soapdog
> despite MS actions Nokia, the other part MS did not buy is going ahead with
> an android fork.

Can you provide a source for this please? I remember reading about the new
Nokia N1 tablet but it was built and designed by foxconn and just branded by
Nokia so I am not aware of any Android fork there...

~~~
sirkneeland
Hi I'm a Nokia PM on this project. It's not an Android fork. Z Launcher is
running on top of vanilla Android on the N1.

------
memnips
I look forward to seeing Android devices powered by Microsoft apps/services in
the future just so Google has a wee bit of competition!

We (at SweetLabs) have been proponents of this "Windroid" concept for some
time, and I think Cyanogen is a very smart way for Microsoft to move forward.
Our "Windroid" thoughts were written up last year if anyone is interested:
[http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/01/windroid-what-if-
microsoft...](http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/01/windroid-what-if-microsoft-
forked-android/)

------
eeeeeeeeeeeee
Maybe this is cynical, but this feels more like Microsoft trying to further
disrupt Google's control over Android. MS knows that Cyanogen is ultimately
bad for Google's Android progress. Cyanogen is an attempt to regain complete
control over the devices we own, away from Google.

Google wants standardization and consistency, Cyanogen wants an "anything
goes" environment. I'm not saying Cyanogen's goals are not admirable, but
Google wants control over the Android ecosystem and they definitely don't want
someone else with that control.

This would be like Microsoft funding companies that make it easier to
jailbreak iOS.

~~~
mirimir
As a user, Cyanogen is a great improvement over stock Android, no question.
But there is zero hope of "regain[ing] complete control over the devices we
own" without open-source radios and firmware. Just sayin'.

~~~
72deluxe
I agree about the lack of complete control. I am not sure putting your device
under the control of another company (Cyanogen) instead of Google is a way of
getting complete control either!

~~~
aaron_m04
Until Replicant is usable, Cyanogen is the best we got.

------
drcube
At this point MS hates Google more than Linux/Android. This doesn't surprise
me at all.

~~~
ahomescu1
I'd throw Apple in there and call it a "hate triangle": MS hates Apple and
Google, Apple hates MS and Google, while Google... I don't really know.

~~~
apetrovic
I don't think that MS and Apple hates each other (by MS and Apple I'm thinking
about leadership and the general sentiment among engineers). But I'm pretty
sure that MS and Apple hates everything Google.

~~~
ahomescu1
I don't know, but they are competitors in one huge market: desktop computers
(sort of) and operating systems. If there's one company that's successfully
taking down Windows, that's Apple (with Mac OS X).

~~~
ForHackernews
> I don't know, but they are competitors in one huge market: desktop computers
> (sort of) and operating systems.

Kind of, but not really. Apple gives its operating system away for free, and
sells hardware. Microsoft sells its operating system to OEMs and business
customers. They aren't directly competing in the way that Coke and Pepsi are.

And Windows (of some version) still has >90% market share for desktop OSes, so
OSX is not a credible threat to Microsoft in that space. Microsoft's biggest
obstacle in the desktop OS space is Windows XP.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
OS X is a credible threat to Microsoft in the high end desktop market, which
is the only place where its OEMs can make money (and are not making money
right now); the Windows ecosystem can't survive with 90% marketshare but only
40% profit share.

But Apple is more concerned these days in selling iPhones, which makes them a
lot of money. And Microsoft wants in on that (disclosure: Microsoft employee,
but speaking for myself).

~~~
retroencabulato
No one in Silicon Valley gives a crap about desktops, all the growth is in
mobile.

------
joelthelion
If only they could get Nokia to make phones with cyanogenmod pre-installed...

~~~
wiineeth
i would later change that and install google rom and use the beautiful
microsoft hardware

------
Pxtl
I'm surprised it took this long for a big phone player to pick up Cyanogen,
but disappointed it's MS - I mean, obviously they could have use for Cyanogen,
but it will never be part of their core business. Lenovo should have thought
of it first.

~~~
k-mcgrady
They aren't 'picking it up/buying it'. They're investing and according to the
article will be a minority shareholder.

------
DAddYE
I think the new Microsoft is becoming really cool. Now there is one step more
to do.

Windows, I would like to see something like the project Spartan, a Windows
based on unix.

I'm a dreamer I know but at this point I will not be surprised.

~~~
ktran03
I think that's their goal, is to be accepted again. Their late rash of
investments seem to insinuate that.

Back in the 90's, it was cool to be a Microsoft fan. Not so much over the last
decade. They're trying hard to change that.

~~~
tmzt
Supporting BSD rump kernels compiled against the NT api could be a good
alternative.

------
Zigurd
For a brief shining moment, Microsoft sold an Android with a Nokia/Microsoft
ecosystem behind it. It wasn't a bad idea. It could have sold better than
Windows Phone handsets because it would have apps.

As Amazon knows, it's owning the ecosystem that matters.

~~~
lostgame
Am I the only person who actually likes WP8 as a platform?

Seriously, my Lumia 520 is the best cheap phone I've ever bought.

~~~
candl
No, you are not alone. I recently got a LG G3 with Lollipop. This is my first
new Android phone in 2.5 years and I think it's going to be the last. It can't
even compete performance wise with my older Lumia 920 in day to day tasks.
Can't say the hardware is bad on the phone, but the software is underwhelming
(typical Android laginess that makes it annoying to use)...

~~~
tdkl
G3 has a high res screen and under powered GPU to run it.

~~~
Grazester
I do remember reading something about this indeed!

------
markolschesky
Hopefully this means that CyanogenMod will get more bug fixes and resources so
that it feels like a truly native Android experience. I didn't even know there
were two different types of headphone microphone jacks (CTIA vs. OMTP) until I
hit this fun limitation on my new OnePlus:
[https://jira.cyanogenmod.org/browse/BACON-133](https://jira.cyanogenmod.org/browse/BACON-133)

------
jackgavigan
Coincidentally, Microsoft released the final versions of Word, Excel and
Powerpoint for Android tablets today: [http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-
office-apps-for-android-t...](http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-office-apps-
for-android-tablets-go-live-today/)

~~~
72deluxe
Thanks! I wonder if it'll make me switch from OfficeSuite Pro, that 25p app I
bought and have used twice.

Does anyone do much work on tablets, out of interest?

My wife uses Google Sheets for a spreadsheet or two on her iPad but we're
under no illusion that it'll replace a "proper" office package on the Mac/PC.

EDIT: Just noticed it'll need a subscription, so I am not their target market.
Thanks for the info about the release though, I did not know about that.

------
ChicagoDave
The one thing I've read (don't remember where) that makes sense to me is...is
it possible that MS is trying to figure out a mobile Docker system to allow
Android apps on Windows Phone? With multi-core CPU's on phones and more
memory, you could assume the capability is there.

But this would be more than Windows Phone...with Windows 10 merging into one
store and Universal apps allowed, is it possible MS is telling everyone to
build for Windows 10 and you'll get tablet and phone apps for free?

I'm a Windows Phone user (Lumia 1020) and really frustrated by the lack of a
new flagship phone, but my feeling is MS is just waiting to leapfrog everyone
else's hardware in 6 months. A lofty goal, but seeing the Surface Pro 3's
success, maybe, just maybe they can do it.

But embedding Android inside Windows seems plausible to me.

------
fnordfnordfnord
If Microsoft can stop themselves from another Sidekick episode, they might
actually manage to make a phone for once. (Assuming they're trying for a
phone) But having lived through the Ballmer years (WRT Linux/FOSS), I remain
skeptical of any Microsoft participation in Android.

~~~
pavlov
Did you know Microsoft sold over 50 million phones last quarter [1]? They know
how to make phones...

[1] 10.5 million Lumia smartphones, 39.7 million Nokia-branded dumbphones --
[http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/hardware-
surprisingl...](http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/hardware-surprisingly-
strong-windows-weak-as-microsoft-posts-solid-q2/)

~~~
semi-extrinsic
So you really mean that Microsoft sold 10 million phones last quarter? Nokia
knows how to make dumbphones, nothing new there. That those appear on MS's
balance sheet does not imply anything about the capabilities of MS.

~~~
cwyers
They don't just show up on Microsoft's balance sheet, the part of Nokia that
makes them is now part of Microsoft.

~~~
ps4fanboy
No true Microsoft fallacy? Ha

------
debacle
This is a very minor investment, and won't give MS any sort of controlling
stake. It's very likely that they want to use this to keep a better feel for
the pulse of the direction the Android ecosystem is going in than any sort of
power play or to adapt technologies.

~~~
higherpurpose
If we won't see Microsoft apps and services start popping up in Cyanogen 6
months from now, then I'd agree with you, but I think that's exactly what's
going to happen.

Microsoft may not get a "controlling stake", but it will probably have a huge
influence in the development of Cyanogen from now on.

~~~
grrowl
Microsoft already publishes heaps of android apps[1], but there's no way
Cyanogen would _drop_ Google apps (leaving ASOP) to pre-install a suite of
unrelated, relatively useless apps (drop Maps, gain Office Suite?)

[1]
:[https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Co...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Corporation&hl=en)

~~~
lmm
Bing Maps was _very_ good the last time I used it.

------
Danieru
Microsoft just bought part of a linux company. Wow, things are not as I
remember them.

~~~
dragonwriter
They've done it before, with Novell. (And, arguably, Nook.)

~~~
SixSigma
Microsoft released a version of Unix when Linus Torvalds was 11 years old.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix)

~~~
dragonwriter
Sure, but releasing a commercial Unix is different than investing in a Linux
company. The former is less inconsistent with popular anti-Linux perception of
Microsoft than the latter.

------
CmonDev
"The real challenge for the company will be convincing its hardcore Android
user base to dump Google Play and use the Cyanogen app store."

Oh, so no Candy Crush Saga then? Well, that's OK. Better chance for everyone.

~~~
tdkl
They "only" need to convince developers first. With Googles automatic banning
from Play Store nowadays, that could even be doable.

------
programminggeek
This makes sense. I can see Microsoft offering Cyanogen and other OEM's a
suite of Office apps as a way to sell more Office 365 subscriptions. It's
really, really smart.

------
Yhippa
I wish they would take the money they're investing in this and figure out how
to bring more apps to Windows Phone.

~~~
josefresco
How would they do this? Pay developers to create apps for their own brands?
They could make their own versions, but that's not going to sit well with ..
anyone.

Curious how such a small investment would make a dent in the seeming lack of
apps for the Windows Phone platform.

~~~
LukeB_UK
I remember when blackberry had a promotion to get a PlayBook for free if you
submitted an app. I'm sure they got loads of apps, if only to get the free
PlayBook to sell.

I know that's what I did.

~~~
deelowe
Sounds like a good way to get a bunch of terrible, unsupported apps into your
ecosystem. Not sure that would help things.

~~~
detaro
Yep, it got them tons of pong games and stuff like that.

FWIW, Microsoft was giving out a lot of free developer devices, too.

~~~
duskwuff
For a while, Microsoft was flat-out giving developers $100 for every app they
published:

[http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/19/4124548/microsoft-
paying-d...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/3/19/4124548/microsoft-paying-
developers-cash-for-windows-apps)

------
Lewisham
I can't help but think that between this and the Android Visual Studio
integration, we might see Android app compatibility on Windows Phone, much
like the Blackberry app play a couple years ago.

It would certainly put the jumper cables on Windows Phone.

~~~
Someone
Adding a compatibility layer for a large competitor means:

A) users will get the cool OS updates as soon as possible, but after the guys
running the 'real' thing get them.

Guess what choice users will make?

B) developers who develop for your platform have to support the market leader,
too; developers who develop for the market leader get your users for free.

Guess what choice developers will make?

This tactic killed native OS/2 apps and, subsequently, OS/2\. The Blackberry
plot didn't end that well for Blackberry, either.

~~~
asyncwords
This is a good point. Few developers would care about Windows Phone if they
can just build for Android and do a lazy port to WP (if they port at all). But
what if Microsoft instead wants to make Windows apps work on Android?
Microsoft is championing their "universal apps" now, where you build one
Windows app and it runs on Windows 8/10, Windows Phone and soon Xbox One.
Adding Android to that list would be big.

------
what_ever
If someone comes up with a version of Android with better privacy controls and
a app store which has around same number of apps available. I will jump the
ship. Google Apps are great but I am sure I can live without them.

------
parktheredcar
So, can someone address the Nexus 4 no call audio issue? Because right now I
can't make emergency calls.

~~~
ac29
It was resolved for me when I moved to CM12. Zero problems in 2+ weeks,
previously a daily issue.

~~~
parktheredcar
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to consider it. That's definitely a
workaround but I've had issues with instability on nightly builds in the past
because... well... they're nightly builds. Could things be worse than having
no phone functionality on my phone? Hmm....

------
shmerl
May be instead of investing they could stop shaking down Android manufacturers
with patent trolling? That would be way more useful.

~~~
DrStalker
Their goal is to help themselves, not to help the greater phone-using
community.

~~~
shmerl
Except they don't hesitate used crooked means for their goal.

------
aquanext
This is classic embrace, extend, and extinguish.

------
alexggordon
This article title is incorrect. The correction at the bottom of the article
reads:

    
    
      Correction: This post originally said Microsoft would be investing $70 million in Cyanogen, but the company will be taking part in a $70 million investment round. It's unknown how much Microsoft is investing.

~~~
sctb
Thanks, we updated the title.

~~~
pluc
Thanks!

------
drikerf
Android is heading in the wrong direction. Not much open source left in a
couple of years. Too bad!

~~~
bdcravens
Because of Microsoft's investment? Microsoft has been open sourcing things in
a pretty shocking manner (.net), supporting open source projects (embracing
Node.js), and doing things in line with the open source community (repos on
Github)

------
melling
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguis...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish)

~~~
Sven7
It's 2015 Google is the new Microsoft

~~~
melling
That's not true. If you make your case for it, I'll gladly explain where
you're wrong. But FFS, stop spewing bullshit.

Android: Doesn't have the dominance that Windows has had for two decades, thus
limiting the power of Google. Also, there is much less lockin for phones.

~~~
kuschku
Android.

Google builds an AOSP environment, as soon as everyone uses it, they move all
the libraries into the proprietary Google Services Framework, and then they
appended their contracts so that every manufacturer that produces "Android
with Google Play" devices can’t sell pure AOSP devices anymore.

~~~
kllrnohj
No libraries have ever moved from AOSP into Google Services Framework. The
Google Services library is exclusively made of APIs that use Google services
that were never in AOSP, such as a Map viewer, push messaging, advanced
location services, and games services.

The vast, _VAST_ majority of APIs that developers use and depend on are in
AOSP either as framework APIs or in the support libraries (which are open
source in AOSP as well).

Second the contracts were always there. Hell, the contracts (Open Handset
Alliance) came _before_ AOSP.

------
higherpurpose
This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yesterday, all sites reported it as
Cyanogen wanting to take Android away from Google "to make it more open", as
in Google has too much control over it.

And today we learn that it's actually Microsoft pulling the strings and
"taking Android away from Google". That changes things quite a bit.

Microsoft will only keep it "open" as long as it benefits them (yes, kind of
Google - which is precisely why I don't see any benefit in this for the user,
just the major downside that will come with such a fork - _Fragmentation_ ).

