
How Bank of America Gave Away My Money - alienchow
http://soraven.com/2017/04/05/how-bank-of-america-gave-away-my-money/
======
CPLX
If you know a little bit about legal procedure dealing with something like
this shouldn't be _too_ hard.

You'd file against your local bank based on the address of the branch you go
to for an order to show cause hearing where they are tasked to show up and
show cause as to why the transfer of money should go forward. You'd state the
basic grounds of mistaken identity, propose a temporary restraining order
barring any further action until the case is heard, and go to the court for a
judge to sign the order and give instructions for service.

Once it gets on everyone's radar as a conflicting court proceeding (rather
than a customer service complaint) they'd likely quickly get to the bottom of
it.

It sounds really hard but it isn't, most courts in bigger cities at least will
have an office where you can make an appointment to get free volunteer legal
help.

Yes this will burn a couple slightly frustrating afternoons getting it
together but it's eminimently possible to do, and an interesting exercise for
the average person who enjoys learning how things work.

~~~
scrummytim
> If you know a little bit about legal procedure dealing with something like
> this shouldn't be too hard.

Well, responses on here vary from "sue the bank, it's their fault," to
"contact/sue the LASD, it's their fault" to "contact the plaintiff's lawyers,
they'll fix it" to "contact the defendant's lawyers, they'll pay for it or
else."

So clearly, this is likely to cost more than a couple afternoons.

One day, a sheriff showed up at my home and confiscated my guns. Turns out
some lunatic that I don't even know had filed a domestic abuse restraining
order against me and the state I was in grants a temporary order by default.
Took 2 months to resolve this and cost me about $6k in legal fees. Took
several months to get my guns back.

While that's not the same as "you're not actually the guy named in the
lawsuit", it illustrates how disruptive this kind of thing can be.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
Absolutely. And he's lucky it was just $4k. What of it was $100k and included
money you needed to live and pay the mortgage with? This type of negligence by
the bank is downright _scary_.

~~~
scrummytim
It's not clear to me that it's the bank's fault. The court must've done some
kind of discovery to send the bank a garnish order. So was the bank lazy and
just took money from a similar named account without checking the details? Or
did the court identify the wrong defendant and issue a garnish order for the
wrong person?

~~~
d_theorist
Either way, BofA should still have given the customer sufficient notification
to enable them to object before taking the money.

~~~
jandrese
I wouldn't be surprised if they are specifically barred from doing this to
avoid having defendants liquidate their assets right before the confiscate
order comes through.

~~~
ianferrel
It's not like the only options are "take the money" and "let the customer
liquidate it".

The middle ground is "notify the customer and freeze the accounts while
they're responding".

~~~
pc86
Which is no different than just taking the money. You can't get a loan against
a frozen account, you can't use a frozen account to buy groceries or pay your
mortgage, and you can't get an extension on your credit cards because your
account is frozen.

Swap out "took my money" with "froze my account" in the article and 90% of the
comments here would be identical.

~~~
ianferrel
It is substantially different.

One is an administrative hold that can be lifted by the bank. The other is an
inter-bank transfer process that maybe has to go through the courts. The
reason the person in this article has had such a hard time is that he has to
convince more than just his bank that they screwed up because _they don 't
have his money any more_.

------
instaheat
I know how to handle these dumb fucks. (I had a Mortgage with them, that makes
me an expert)

I had a problem with them coughing up an escrow refund check, although there
is much more to the story that would have most of you boiling.

I filed complaints with a total of 3 agencies and received my check via FedEx
Priority overnight not long after. Suck it, BofA.

* Filed complaint with CFPB * Filed with Texas State Attorney General's Office (Insert your state here) * Filed complaint with Office of the Comptroller of Currency (HelpWithMyBank.gov)

Trust me. If you file a very well articulated complaint to each of these
entities, they will feel the heat and resolve it.

I hope this information helps you alienchow, and many others.

~~~
wyldfire
CFPB was just called out [1, 2] by Rep. Jeb Hensarling as unaccountable and a
"rogue agency". The head of CFPB responded in an interview this morning [3].

Mr. Jiang, you'd better get your complaint in now before they're disbanded!

[1] [http://www.npr.org/2017/04/05/522756745/head-of-consumer-
fin...](http://www.npr.org/2017/04/05/522756745/head-of-consumer-financial-
protection-bureau-faces-lawmakers-this-week)

[2] [http://www.npr.org/2017/02/24/516983751/rep-jeb-
hensarling-c...](http://www.npr.org/2017/02/24/516983751/rep-jeb-hensarling-
calls-consumer-financial-protection-bureau-a-rogue-agency)

[3] [http://www.npr.org/2017/04/06/522826544/consumer-
financial-p...](http://www.npr.org/2017/04/06/522826544/consumer-financial-
protection-bureau-chief-responds-to-republican-critics)

~~~
dmix
It says they want to replace the head guy and restructure the agency. This is
why:

> A 2013 press release from the House Services Committee (HSC) criticized the
> CFPB for what was described as a "radical structure" that "is controlled by
> a single individual who cannot be fired for poor performance and who
> exercises sole control over the agency, its hiring and its budget."
> Moreover, the HSC alleged a lack of financial transparency, lack of
> accountability to Congress or the President, and expressed particular
> concern about excessive travel costs and a $55 million renovation of CFPB
> headquarters that was more costly than "the entire annual construction and
> acquisition budget for GSA for the totality of federal buildings".

Of course it sounds bad that they want to shut down a 'consumer protection'
agency. But those sound like legitimate concerns. At a minimum a restructuring
sounds like a good thing.

~~~
metaphorm
it sounds a lot like you just regurgitated Republican talking points

~~~
dmix
Speaking of partisanship, the NPR links above are just as equally
regurgitating democrat talking points. Lacking any type of critical analysis
of the agency and instead focused entirely on the silly talking points of the
republican guy with some added snark.

NPR is hard left, I at least quoted a study from a bi-partisan agency that I
found on Wikipedia

~~~
metaphorm
> NPR is hard left

you can't be serious. NPR is what the American media complex calls "liberal"
which should be translated to "center-right by global and historical
standards, but left of the extreme right wing of contemporary American
politics".

~~~
lacampbell
I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion that the US was center-right
by global standards. Are you genuinely broadly familiar with all the
governments of South America, the Middle East, Africa and Asia? Or are you
just comparing it to a small handful of governments in North America and
Western Europe?

NZ is more left-wing than the US, though my hunch is that the left-wing here
is much more US influenced than the right. IE, because the US dominates
English-speaking media, and the left dominates US media (or at least the
exported US media), that the local left seems to largely be driven by the
issues and talking points of the american left. We even studied the US Civil
Rights movement in our state run history class.

~~~
metaphorm
this might be instructive

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/5oczc7g4979s95k/the%20political%20...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/5oczc7g4979s95k/the%20political%20spectrum.pdf?dl=0)

now place on Overton Window
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window))
on that chart such that its left end goes over Steven Pinker and its right end
goes over Donald Trump and you have the political spectrum, as it is currently
discussed in American mainstream media.

~~~
lacampbell
I'm going to go ahead and ignore something so incredibly biased that it places
Barack Obama and Joseph Stalin on the "far right". That's la-la land
extremist.

~~~
metaphorm
it puts Obama on "the right" and Stalin on "the extreme right". that sounds
correct to me.

you should actually read it and think about why it is constructed that way. if
your first reaction to seeing a perspective you're unfamiliar with is "that's
la-la land extremist" then you might have a bias problem.

~~~
lacampbell
What makes you think I'm not familiar with the far left perspective? I'm very
familiar with it.

If you think putting communist dictator Joseph Stalin on the extreme right
means you have a nuanced, holistic view of the left-right spectrum then yes,
you're a moonbat extremist. You'll note that right wing extremists will do a
similar trick, and claim Hitler was a leftist.

~~~
metaphorm
please, hear me out. you're already defensive and dismissive and I'm asking
you to suspend that for a minute and think about it.

where did you learn that Stalin is left wing? Who told you that? Is it because
the USSR was nominally communist (in some strange version of communism in
which totalitarian state capitalism is the actual system, anyway) and so any
leader of nominally communist nation is left wing because communism is left
wing?

Now compare the actual policies and actions of Stalin to the policies and
actions of other leaders that he is most similar to. I think it's pretty
uncontroversial to say that Stalin's regime was a brutal, repressive,
totalitarian dictatorship. A lot like Hitler's regime actually.

Now when you're drawing a political spectrum do you think we ought to pay
attention to abstract statements about ideology or should we pay more
attention to policies and actions? Is a political spectrum best organized by
abstract ideology (in which case, yes, Nazism is left wing, it was a socialist
party after all) or by what actually happened?

What's more "moonbat"? Putting two similar leaders (Hitler and Stalin) on
opposite ends of a spectrum or putting them near each other on that spectrum?

There's really only one flaw with the chart that I linked. It's that it
continues to use the terms "left" and "right" even though it has rearranged
groupings to match policies and actions. Would you feel differently about it
if instead of left it said "liberation" and instead of right it said
"domination"?

------
tstegart
He should be calling up the plaintiff's lawyers, not BOA. Lawyers don't want
to collect only to have to give it back. Find out who they are and call them.
Any other attorneys involved as well. Once they have proof the money should
not be given out, any ethical attorney would be very wary of handing out
money.

It's also likely the money will be sitting in the trust account of an attorney
before it actually gets dispersed, so he has more time that way. Contacting
the bank for help in the legal system is totally the wrong way to solve this.
They've given the money away and can't actually get it back even if they
tried. They're a useless avenue at the moment.

~~~
joshuaheard
This would be my advice as well; talk to the Plaintiff's attorney. I have all
my business accounts at B of A. I shopped around, and they have the best
online banking services. Part of the problem is arcane banking laws. Since I
opened the accounts at B of A in Texas and now live in Seattle. Even though I
walk into the B of A office here in Seattle, my accounts are "out of state"
and require all sorts of extra paperwork.

~~~
uiri
Is there no way for you to change the home branch of your account? I can
imagine it being a giant hassle if the routing number would change. At least
neither WA nor TX have state income tax.

In Canada, the branch number is part of it so that _would_ definitely have to
change but the federal government has sole jurisdiction over banks so out-of-
province isn't an issue.

------
wjnc
What I don't get: Why would he pursue some court order he's not a party to?
The only logical counterparty to this dispute is BoA. They gave away your
money without proper title. That shouldn't hold up in court? That they gave
some money to the LA Sheriff’s Department, that would be BoA to recoup.

~~~
AimHere
Trouble is, this guy is a random citizen who doesn't know much about how the
law works, and so it hasn't clicked who the correct plaintiff would be for his
case.

He'd probably get told who the right parties to lodge a complaint against, if
there was any lawyer willing to talk to him for about 15 minutes, but the last
half of the article is basically him being bounced all over California by
legal professionals who won't speak to him, because he's out of their
bailiwick.

It's the XY problem in legal form...

~~~
HelloNurse
It's the technical mindset: the court order from Southern California is wrong,
let's fix it!

~~~
lr4444lr
Ha, you're right. It's like he was trying to "debug" this problem. PSA dear
readers: civil damages are about _proximate_ cause, not _root_ cause.

------
phkahler
The error was committed by the LASD, their response here is wrong:

A few minutes later, she came back with the bad news. “Why didn’t you call
earlier? It’s too late for us to withdraw the request. The money was already
sent to the court! You need to go down to the courthouse and ask them to show
you the court documents.”

It is not his problem what they did with the money, they took it from him
plain and simple. The error was on their part and how they correct it on the
other end is their problem.

Back in the day when people use MCI for some of their phone services , I got
an adder to my phone bill from ATT (my carrier) for a charge attributed to a
John Fox. I called ATT a couple times and pointed out that I'm not John Fox
and they tried to tell me to call MCI. MCI used their LEC billing agreement to
have ATT collect the fee. At some point I explained that I was not an MCI
customer, had no relationship with them and that ATT had actually charged this
fee to me, which is incorrect - how they wanted to deal with MCI or John Fox
was their problem. They credited my account and I never heard about John Fox
again.

EDIT: Actually the comment below by CLPX is better - the bank did this, they
took his money and it is THEIR problem not the LASD. My point remains somewhat
valid, it's not your problem to chase the money after someone wrongly took it
- it's their problem. The bank didn't do a decent job of verification - they
went on a partial name match alone apparently (no SSN, no account number,
WTF).

~~~
late2part
Your anecdote about inter-carrier billing is a good one.

It reminds me of a position one of my best friends takes on "identity theft."
He asserts it simply doesn't exist.

What bank's call identity theft most of the world calls "Bank Fraud." The
banks don't want to eat it - so they lobby congress to pass laws making it
your fault if a bad person tricks the bank.

tl;dr: Similar to how banks try to make identity theft your problem when it's
really bank fraud.

~~~
gertef
"Mitchell & Webb Sound - Identity Theft" :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E)

------
perlpimp
Not sure if you have small claims court in America. In Canada for losses under
10000$ process is fairly straightforward. You should file and follow the
process. If they don't give money back, go to the court and execute writ of
seizure. One guy did this.

[http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-
on-...](http://business.time.com/2011/06/06/homeowner-forecloses-on-bank-of-
america-yes-you-heard-that-right/)

~~~
josh_fyi
They would say "we had no choice, it was a court order. The sheriff's
department is responsible for the mistake."

~~~
probably_wrong
In theory: the blog's author would counter argue that BoA didn't perform due
diligence in checking that the order mentioned the correct person, and even
then, they didn't send the notification on time. The court rules against BoA,
and it's up to their lawyers to recoup the money.

In practice: BoA pays straight out of their pocket, sends those $3.4K to
losses, and shuts this down before the media finds out. And based on the speed
of votes this article is getting, they _will_ find out.

~~~
patio11
Absolutely correct. This is pocket lint to Bank of America. The big banks
operate at an absolutely mammoth scale; BoA has 208k employees. More
consequential mistakes than this happen by the thousands every day. There is,
quite literally, a budget for it.

It is an unfortunate reality for the US that you have to present as a savvy
professional, but as soon as BoA is institutionally aware that there is a
savvy professional who is at the point of involving a lawyer, I give them ~48
hours to make the decision internally "We're totally paying that" and a total
resolution time of under two weeks.

If it were me here, I'd ask for the branch manager at my first visit
immediately after getting the run-around from tier 1 CS. I give better-than-
even odds that the branch manager can self-resolve this, particularly for a
longer-term customer or relationship they'd otherwise have reason to care
about. If the branch manager isn't super receptive to that immediately, walk
into any lawyer's office and say "I want a letter written to Bank of America
saying that they owe me $X plus whatever you charge for the letter." (If you
for whatever reason can't afford a lawyer or can't get a lawyer to take you
seriously, you can get much of the same effect by saying "Regulation E" on
paper. [+])

Your lawyer won't even have to threaten a suit over this. Everyone knows the
score here.

(I use to ghostwrite letters to banks. One of my weird hobbies.)

[+] Regulation E governs electronic funds transfers at US financial
institutions. People who know that are very dangerous people for banks to
annoy, because Regulation E contains a state machine which is very consumer-
favorable, and there is an implicit threat of "I bring your operation of the
state machine to the attention of a bored regulator who has no joy in their
life other than opportunities to hold your feet to the fire for improperly
operating state machines."

~~~
skorgu
I'm ... shockingly interested in this bank letter ghostwriting thing. Could
you say more?

~~~
patio11
There exists a message board called "Credit Cards and Consumer Debt" within
the Motley Fool. I commented there for a few years on a variety of subjects,
under a pseudonym (which is laughably transparent to anyone who knows me but
please don't take that as a challenge, HN).

I was originally there because my credit report suddenly got $100k+ of debt
added to it due to a series of errors. I researched the CRA and FDCPA and, in
the process of doing so, found that forum. Many folks with different fact
patterns needed relatively similar resolutions to mine or ones which were
predictable based on information I had access to, so I started writing replies
like "Yeah just write your bank and tell them $FOO." It turns out that the
types of folks who end up deep in credit card debt often have some difficulty
in banging out a quick professional letter. I didn't, and I had a lot of free
time on my hands, so I drafted perhaps a few hundred letters.

This is one of my more esoteric hobbies, but it has been occasionally useful
over the years.

------
andy_ppp
Don't mess around with the court, the whole thing is Bank of America's
problem, don't let them make it your fault or the courts. They have debited
the wrong account, you can prove this; in the UK if this happened and they
didn't return me my money I would take them to the small claims court which
can be filled in online. Surely California must have this?

~~~
chadcmulligan
Australia has a banking ombudsman that resolves disputes like this, though
I've never had reason to use it. There's also a telecommunications ombudsman -
it's a magic word whenever the phone companies screw up (a fairly regular
occurrence, though less so recently), I just say I'm recording this call to
send to the ombudsman and everything is fixed really quickly.

I believe there a sort of government service but the banks/telcos pay for them
by each complaint they get charged - it's free for consumers and works well.

I realise it doesn't help the ops current problem but just mentioning it as a
good solution.

------
louhike
I had the same problem with one of the biggest french bank. I saw an important
withdrawal on my account in a city where I wasn't. I called my bank and I
explained the situation. They told me I'll get the money back in one day. I
asked if I should change my credit card in case it was hacked, they told me
calmy it was just an error on their part because another client had the same
last name. I just couldn't believe it.

~~~
brianwawok
I got a bonus 5k in my account once because a deposit was off by one digit.
The bank was very prompt in taking their money back :)

~~~
mikeash
I had something like that happen with a closed credit card. I don't know what
the mistake was, but I suddenly had a $6,000 statement credit due to a
misapplied payment. When I called to tell them, they offered to send me a
check! After I declined the misbegotten windfall, they put in a little effort
and figured out where it was supposed to go.

~~~
Neliquat
In many contries, if they send you a check, even in error, you are allowed to
cash it if you choose. I recommend consulting a lawyer, and keeping it in a
seperate account for a while before spending. Local laws vary widely, some
jurisdicitions will disagree. Consider local and national laws as they may
appy. Ianal.

~~~
brianwawok
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2012/05/24/bank-
er...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2012/05/24/bank-error-in-
your-favor/#3ae7666e52a3)

Every story I have ever heard, ended with the bank basically saying "You owe
us money. Pay us it back in 3 days or we are going to the police"

Seems not a good plan.

~~~
mikeash
Regardless, it wouldn't have been right to keep the money. Especially since
doing so probably would have caused problems for the person who made the
misrouted payment.

~~~
RUG3Y
The bank generated that "money" out of thin air. The big scam is that it's all
just ones and zeroes.

~~~
mikeash
That's... not how money works.

~~~
RUG3Y
[http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/how-banks-create-
mo...](http://positivemoney.org/how-money-works/how-banks-create-money/)

~~~
mikeash
I'm aware of how fractional reserve banking works. It does not mean that the
money is generated "out of thin air."

------
nathantotten
Wells Fargo did this to me many years ago from a business account. The State
of California issued a seizer for unpaid taxes for another business. In the
end I think Wells Fargo told us that our tax ID numbers were similar. We did
end up getting the money back from the state of California after about 3
years. We of course never got back the penalties Wells Fargo charged or
interest.

~~~
jumpkickhit
Wells Fargo did similar to me too. However, they then deleted all of my
account history (I was paperless) and demanded I call their corporate office,
refusing to do anything in writing.

Glad you were able to resolve things, I wasn't able to.

------
pmarreck
This entire fiasco could have been avoided if people were identified
correctly. Here's another recent article where simply using "firstname
lastname DOB" as a primary key resulted in a collision:
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-
the...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-theft-racial-
justice)

~~~
watbe
This is horrific, but what a fascinating story and outcome. Thanks for sharing

~~~
dllthomas
Discussed on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14022588](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14022588)

------
darkmirage
I wrote the blog post. It turns out writing a blog post works better than
talking to the bank beyond simple catharsis. Just got a call from someone from
Bank of America's social media team who credited the money back to my account.
Thanks for all the suggestions here!

~~~
therealdrag0
We see this all the time. Pretty frustrating that you need to create a PR fuss
for issues to be addressed.

------
jandrewrogers
I will never use Bank of America again, for similar reason.

On _two separate occasions_ they "lost" transfers to the IRS (totaling $40k)
that I only discovered when the IRS came after me for failure to pay taxes. I
had full receipts from BofA for the transfers that apparently never happened.
At least as disconcerting, the reaction of BofA to the situation both times
suggested that sending money to /dev/null was a routine occurrence in their
organization.

------
threepipeproblm
BofA also launders money for gangs, according to the FBI
[https://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB100014240527023032922045...](https://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303292204577514773605576442?mg=reno64-)

They had to pay $17 billion because of the scale to which they
institutionalized mortgage fraud [http://nypost.com/2014/08/21/bank-of-
america-to-pay-record-1...](http://nypost.com/2014/08/21/bank-of-america-to-
pay-record-17b-to-end-mortgage-probes/)

The other big banks aren't too different... I went with a small, local bank
years ago and haven't looked back.

Find a Local Bank [http://banklocal.info/](http://banklocal.info/)

~~~
passivepinetree
Why not find a credit union instead? Even better than a local bank because
their goal isn't to profit off of their members.

------
rodionos
Likely, there is a dataset on data.gov published by CFPB which consolidates
consumer complaints in a federal database.

[https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/consumer-complaint-
database...](https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/consumer-complaint-
database#topic=consumer_navigation)

BofA ranks first by the total number of cases which is to be expected given
their footprint. What's notable is that BofA has actually improved over time.

[https://github.com/axibase/atsd-use-
cases/blob/master/Consum...](https://github.com/axibase/atsd-use-
cases/blob/master/ConsumerFinance/README.md)

------
hedora
Consider taking LASD, BofA and the LAPD to small claims court in a single case
in Northern California.

All three of them acted together to take the $3.4k, and I suspect there would
be a settlement rather than an actual day in court.

It might be too late, but maybe call the BofA fraud department and tell them
it was an unauthorized charge. "Unauthorized charge" is like the root password
for banks.

~~~
hedora
It might also be possible to call the judge that handled the case and ask for
help.

Based on jury duty selection it is more or less the judge's job to babysit
lawyers of varying degrees of competence. The judge's office should at least
be able to get you on the line with the right person.

------
uptown
Reminds me a bit of this article -- similar names crossed up in beurocratic
negligence.

[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-
the...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/03/identity-theft-racial-
justice)

~~~
Eric_WVGG
I read that yesterday too, good article.

Left me thinking that people who give their children names like River Phoenix
or Seven Costanza might be on to something.

------
mirimir
I don't get how BoA would pay when the SSN didn't match.

But maybe the LASD didn't cite the SSN, but just the bank account that they
had erroneously identified. But still, it's mind-boggling that they'd be so
sloppy.

~~~
jandrese
It is not shocking at all that the bank had sloppy accounting. You don't get
very many highly motivated professionals to sit around an office and help
people fill out checking account applications all day. It's a retail gig with
a fairly low salary, not much different than running a register at the Gap. If
you are doing anything even slightly out of the ordinary you will run into
headaches more often than not.

------
cthulhuology
If everyone on this thread tweeted his story, he'll get his money back. In the
age of social media, the only effective tool we have against corporations is
public shaming.

~~~
dllthomas
For something like this, I've no reason to believe small claims court isn't
also an effective tool.

~~~
alexandercrohde
Maybe "functional" is a valid adjective, but "effective" is not. If the guy
had gotten on a phone with a lawyer, and the lawyer said "All you need to is
go to small claims court against x and bring Y" that might have made things
possible.

The awful interface of our legal system is one of the key ways that the less
wealthy and less educated get an unfair treatment. Any wealthy person would
get this reversed and get their legal fees paid for too.

~~~
dllthomas
I don't have strong feelings about the word choice - I think we agree on
substance.

------
the-dude
In The Netherlans, but I suspect it is EU wide, they won't check the name _at
all_ when doing an ordinary transfer. And this is _all_ banks.

~~~
yardie
You mean the IBAN? We've used it to send money back and forth between people
and companies all the time. For the most part it works. And if there is a
dispute or error it can be reversed.

~~~
LWdkw
No. They do not check the name at all. They use the IBAN. They do not verify
the IBAN against the corresponding name.

------
oblib
BOA is probably the worst institutions I've ever dealt with and I never even
opened an account with them.

I did get to close one I had with them though and that was a very good day for
me because I was among the very 1st of many here who did the same and I got to
watch what happened to them here from start to end.

They came to Branson Missouri and bought out a well loved local bank where I
had my business account. I closed it as soon as I found out. As the new
management came and started enforcing BOA policy people learned fast that I
and a few others familiar with them weren't bullshitting about them.

Soon, the long time employees of the old bank started leaving because they
weren't willing to piss their friends and neighbors for BOA and, of course,
they told everyone why they left. Most went to work for one of the several
other local banks here, and all their close friends and family moved their
money with them.

When the last of those employees were gone everyone here started moving their
accounts over to one of the still locally owned banks and in just a few years
BOA didn't have hardly anyone left here to screw so they closed their doors
and left town.

I will always admire my neighbors here for that. I knew people who let that
bank abuse them for decades out in Los Angeles and I could never, not for the
life of me, understand why.

------
hutzlibu
Hm ... the bank acted clearly careless, but I am surprised that there is so
little blame on the court/sherrif, as they messed up in the first place and
then in the end to not really be willing to undo their misstake.

~~~
dllthomas
Do we really know it was the court/sheriff who messed up in the first place?
Maybe the actual defendant also had a BofA account, and the mixup was entirely
by BofA. (Maybe not - I just don't see a means we have to distinguish, from
afar).

------
rodionos
While BofA has its share of blame to absorb here, the specific issue is the
lack of support for unusual names such as names containing whitespace. The
issue may affect other banks, big or small. I for instance had once to deal
with a banking application not supporting non-US phone numbers for 2FA, and
yet positioned to serve customers 24x7 globally.

~~~
justabystander
It's not like unusual name support isn't a common issue, but they also had a
unique key that they failed to check - the SSN. The name at stake could have
just as easily been Bob Smith.

The issue in this case wasn't a technological one, but a procedural one.
Third-party withdrawal due to court proceedings is an exceptional scenario -
not a regular one. Managerial staff would have had to sign off. Someone had to
explicitly decide to ignore all the conflicting information.

~~~
rodionos
Sure, the SSN wildcarding was totally inappropriate.

------
tomohawk
Yet another reason not to use one of the big 4 banks. Credit unions and local
banks are the way to go.

~~~
rapsey
In case of a financial crisis the big 4 banks are going to get bailed out.
Credit unions and local banks maybe.

~~~
tomohawk
It's more likely that the big banks will be bailed _in_ , not bailed out.
Which means your money is less safe there.

Also, credit unions have a different insurance scheme than the banks, which
insulates them from this.

Finally, credit unions are more aware of possible jeapardy, and so tend to act
more prudently.

~~~
mijoharas
Sorry, I don't understand, what do you mean by "bailed in"?

~~~
lolc
A bail-in is when savings are used to finance the bank or the state by turning
them into illiquid debt, bank shares, or when they are simply forfeited. This
happened in Cyprus in 2013 for example.

~~~
XorNot
If this ever happens in the US it really​ won't matter where​ your savings
are.

~~~
jessaustin
In USA, if savings are under your mattress, they are protected by 2nd
Amendment...

~~~
clort
This is merely false bravado in this day and age. The police can take your
money, if they suspect that it is proceeds of a crime. Lots of money under the
bed sounds like proceeds from a drugs deal! You can take a few of them down
with you, but it won't end well for you..

------
mdekkers
Repeat after me:"The only clients of a bank are its' shareholders"

~~~
LordKano
Which is precisely why I switched to a credit union over a decade ago and
don't plan on ever going back to a bank.

------
DiabloD3
As far as I know, the only correct action is to write a letter detailing the
entire situation to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency in
Washington DC.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

~~~
jwn
Maybe you can elaborate as to why this is the correct course of action? I've
never heard of this office.

~~~
gergles
They are BoA's federal regulator.

------
gumby
A comment on the article advises filing a theft report. This has worked for me
twice. The one most relevant to HN:

Crappy payroll company ADP double-debited the quarterly IRS tax payment for
payroll. (Luckily I _always_ have payroll checks written out of a payroll-only
account, so when the account went negative the bank called me so I could
transfer additional money (about a half a million bucks) in and nobody's
paycheck bounced). To make a long story short ADP refused to do anything and
when I finally got to talk to the district manager he insisted his hands were
tied. "I don't know why you keep saying we improperly took your money -- we
didn't! The money is at the IRS and in three months you can just declare it as
a credit on your next payment. We don't have your money at all." Finally I
agreed with him, "you're right! I will stop saying you took your money and
will instead use the correct vocabulary, 'grand theft', 'fraud', and 'abuse of
power of attorney'. Since you prefer the precise terminology, if the money is
not in my account by 2PM (note: that's when the fed wire closes) I'll drive
over to the Santa Clara district Attorney's office and swear a complaint."

Oddly enough the money that they supposedly didn't have was in our account by
1pm.

------
ScottBurson
Maybe try suing the bank in small claims court. They were clearly negligent.

------
bm1362
I recently went through a similar legal situation to recover basically the
same small amount. I find these incidents to be really interesting and oddly
beautiful.

Exploring the broken beaurocracy to retrieve your money is a game; when you
finally send enough documents and certified letters to satisfy/scare the
otherside it's extremely satisfying.

------
rewrew
You need to hire a lawyer. It's not fair but that's how this is. This is going
to haunt you forever -- not just this account! You have to do so ASAP and get
this straightened out so you have the paperwork to prove it next time this
happens. You also should write Consumer Reports Web site -- they'll love this
story.

------
ChuckMcM
In this case I think the author is railing on BofA too much, unless the court
said "pony up any money from any account" I'm guessing they specifically asked
BofA for the money from this particular account. The person responsible here
is the Sheriff's office and they are the ones that should be pursued.

------
coding123
I think I might ask my employer to pay me in bitcoin soon. Or shit, maybe gold
bars that I pick up every few weeks.

~~~
solotronics
I use bitwage and most of my paycheck is automatically converted to Bitcoin.

------
ewams
They have failed to pay back billions, much less $3k. Do not do business with
any organization on this list:
[https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list](https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list)

~~~
ryanackley
From your own source, the government _made_ about 2 billion off of the BofA
bailout. This includes the 2 billion write-off of TARP funds they gave to the
home mortgage group.

Not defending BofA, just saying your source material doesn't make the point
you think it does.

~~~
ewams
You are correct, thank you I read the last update wrong. I personally still
attempt to not do business with these organizations for multiple reasons.

------
code4tee
Wow. Lots of parties liable here. Reeks of those cases where banks forceclosed
on the wrong houses.

Sad that one has to go public like this to get anything to happen, but I
suspect that it will help showing the world how incompetent the involved
parties were.

I remember there being some brilliant story in the reverse direction where
someone sued a bank (I believe it was BoA) for something like this and won.
When the bank didn't respond they got the court to allow property seizure to
recover damages. Guy rocked up at a local bank branch and started taking
computers and such with court order in hand and sheriff watching. He was
legally robbing the bank. Bank reacted quite quickly then!

------
pcvarmint
Looks like it comes from dispute between a Montclair Place shopping mall sushi
restaurant and an investor:

[https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/8541827/Jeffrey_Lin...](https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/8541827/Jeffrey_Lin_et_al_v_Dragon_Gate_OR_LLC_et_al)

Here is one of the defendants' info:

[https://www.myrelatives.com/d/XIAO-
LI/1353226340](https://www.myrelatives.com/d/XIAO-LI/1353226340)

Looks like he moved from Oregon to North Carolina in May 2014. Here was his
old house:

[https://www.redfin.com/OR/West-Linn/2245-River-Heights-
Cir-9...](https://www.redfin.com/OR/West-Linn/2245-River-Heights-
Cir-97068/home/26027785)

Here are the court documents:

[https://document.li/r7zs](https://document.li/r7zs)

[https://document.li/9xL1](https://document.li/9xL1)

[https://document.li/2r4h](https://document.li/2r4h)

[https://document.li/ThA6](https://document.li/ThA6)

[https://document.li/lQoK](https://document.li/lQoK)

[https://document.li/7G1S](https://document.li/7G1S)

[https://document.li/Sg8p](https://document.li/Sg8p)

[https://document.li/0q4m](https://document.li/0q4m)

[https://document.li/iYgL](https://document.li/iYgL)

[https://document.li/ehHq](https://document.li/ehHq)

------
curun1r
My personal nightmare with BofA started when they merged with Fleet. I had a
credit card with Fleet and it had been set to auto-pay the balance every
month. After the merger, the auto-pay got disabled without telling me and by
the time I realized it two months later, around $20 of interest had accrued.
After customer support calls to try to get it resolved, they refused to refund
the interest. So I asked to cancel my account and asked for the full-payoff
amount and the address to mail the check. Since I had paperless billing, I
didn't have an official slip to send in with my payment, but I wrote my Fleet
account number on the check and the check was cashed a couple of weeks later.
I assumed the unpleasant situation was finished.

Little did I know, my nightmare was just beginning. Several years later, I was
applying for an apartment and I failed the credit check. I got a hold of my
credit report and saw that BofA claimed I had a large unpaid balance that was
several years behind. After calling them many times to try to resolve it, we
finally figured out that they had credited my payment to a non-existent
account and that my account had a different BofA account number that was
different from my Fleet account number. I thought that would clear everything
up, but after they reconciled the two accounts, they still claimed I owed them
over $4k in interest that had accrued on the unpaid account. No amount of
common sense could make them realize that they cashed my full-payout amount
check so my account should be fully paid off. It took getting a lawyer
involved for them to finally zero out my account and, by that time, I'd missed
out on the apartment. The lawyer also helped me dispute the credit mark on my
account with the agencies because BofA refused to remove it. Hundreds of hours
of my life calling their inept customer service and over $1k in legal fees all
because of their screw-ups.

BofA are a truly despicable company that doesn't give customer service reps
the ability to make even obvious, common-sense adjustments which leads
situations like mine. Whenever I have the chance, I try to warn people away
from doing business with them. They literally took a happy customer (I loved
Fleet) and, through incompetence unwillingness to act reasonably, turned him
into an enemy for life. And all for $20.

------
dghughes
> ...So what we do here is match you with one of our members for a $30 fee
> which guarantees you a 30-minute conversation...

That's a good service to have I needed it and was referred but ten days later
still no callback. And there was deadline I had to honour long passed. There
was little time between when I needed the lawyer which I can't afford and the
deadline. Scumbags know the law so well you are screwed for time trying to
fight anyone.

------
gumby
> my credit union was infinitely more competent than the buffoons at Bank of
> America.

This. It's not even a pro-credit union thing: small banks handle exceptional
situations much better than big banks in my experience. You'd think it would
be the opposite, but it's not. When the tellers know every customer, even when
I almost never walk in, exceptions seem to generate a helpful phone call.

------
RichardHeart
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world that when
the bank gets money stolen from it, it's your money, and not theirs.

------
gumby
BTW what's with the weird grey fade out effect at the bottom? It simply slows
down reading. Fortunately "reader mode" works.

------
samfisher83
I have had a similar issue before just call office controller currency. They
are pretty good about getting on the banks.

------
matt_wulfeck
This amount of money seems like it would be a good candidate for small claims
court. Can anyone tell me if this guy can use small claims court (which is
easy to initiate) to recover the money? I feel like even if he lodged a motion
against the branch manager for negligence it might be enough to get things
cleared up.

------
archon810
What the heck happened to the site?

[http://soraven.com/2017/04/05/how-bank-of-america-gave-
away-...](http://soraven.com/2017/04/05/how-bank-of-america-gave-away-my-
money/) now shows some spam ads and nothing else.

------
safeandsound
The link seems to be broken now. From Google Cache I was able to read the
article and found out that BoA reached out to the author after the blog post
got traction. I wish the post has remained to get more readership and serve as
a reminder for BoA to act put together.

------
di_ry
Bank of America – what is a SSN?

~~~
reboog711
SSN = Social Security Number.

Basically, an identification number used by US Citizens.

~~~
LordKano
It has become a taxpayer ID number too. It's not just citizens. Every
individual who is legally authorized to work has one. Every legal entity (like
corporations) that has assets usually has one too.

------
hardlianotion
When you have finally managed to get Bank of America to sort out their
nonsense, do a little research and change bank. Hopefully, there are banks in
the US that aren't that unprofessional.

------
dagenleg
I especially like how in every case of being screwed by the bureaucracy the
lowly citizen has only one option - go the the lawyers. And what are those?
More bureaucracy!

~~~
maxxxxx
Even worse, they cost substantial money.

------
ionised
It's amazing how it seems the best way to be treated fairly by organisations
that have clearly done you wrong is to out them on social media.

------
solotronics
Bitcoin is the solution.. banking is broken for consumers because once you
give a bank your money it's NOT YOURS.

------
asgeirn
Is it actually possible to have a comfortable life in the US of A without a
family lawyer?

------
gtsteve
I don't understand why he's taking this on himself to be honest. If I was
incorrectly named in some sort of lawsuit, my first reaction would be to call
my lawyer. Who knows if there's also an incorrect arrest warrant out for
example?

~~~
ryandrake
Most people don't have lawyers to call. The last 1/3 of his story was about
him calling lawyers trying to find one who would talk to him.

If someone told me to call my lawyer I wouldn't know what to do. I don't have
a lawyer. I don't know people who "have lawyers" or can recommend one. I met a
lawyer once, I think, when I bought my previous house. I'd probably search
online for "Lawyers in San Francisco" and pick one at random.

~~~
jumpkickhit
In the article, the amount taken was $3,400.

A lawyer to fight this costs a lot more than that. Also, there's another
issue. What if that was his entire savings? Now he has $0 for a lawyer.

~~~
cestith
So hire a heavy hitter on contingency. IANAL.

Sue the bank for the $3400 plus legal costs, fees associated with the loss of
fluid assets, punitive charges, and mental anguish. This is a tens of
thousands of dollars ask.

Sue the LASD and the LA county court for violations of the fourth, fifth, and
sixth amendments. There was no due process against OP. OP's property was
seized without warrant, trial, or even suspicion against OP. The OP had no
access to trial or to legal representation but was separated from belongings.
This is a multiple hundreds of thousands ask.

Someone will surely notice the wrong of $3400 plus legal costs and some
interest and fees and settle before the tens and hundreds of thousands get in
front of a judge.

------
SketchySeaBeast
And here I was wondering what my new anxiety for the day would be.

------
vivaamerica
Interesting response video from Martin Shkreli, who is mostly known for his
EpiPen scandal.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HROHxpDE6Dw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HROHxpDE6Dw)

------
chrisvoss
Wow what a horror show

------
mankash666
Why isn't anyone questioning the LASD for fucking up a basic SSN comparison
before requesting a fund-transfer from BoFA? Isn't this really the LASD's
fault. Can't you sue the LASD for damages?

------
Noughmad
Was the bank really at fault here? From what I see they receive a legal letter
from the Sheriff’s Department, and they complied with the letter. The article
doesn't say what was included in the letter to the bank, I assume the author
doesn't know either. It could have the wrong SSN, or the Sheriff’s Department
just looked up the defendant's name, found the author's account number and
SSN, and sent those to the bank.

~~~
justabystander
Any major corporation has lawyers (either in-house or on retainer) to verify
that court orders are valid before complying with them. Bank of America either
chose not to use them, or they didn't do their own due diligence. You can bet
this wouldn't have happened if the case involved several hundred thousands (or
millions) of dollars.

Court orders have to be specific for a reason - to protect property rights. If
some of the information on a court order doesn't match the facts, the proper
thing to do is challenge it. Using a warrant as an example, law enforcement
isn't allowed to get a judge to allow them to enter a property and just take
"anything incriminating". They need to specifically list what they're taking,
what case it's in conjunction to, and how the property relates to the case.
They're not allowed to take anything that doesn't match the exact specifics of
the order.

And if any of that information is wrong, the order is invalid and executing it
makes people liable to civil suits. The bank should have challenged it
themselves, since they had the necessary information to do so (a name and
SSN). Failing that, they should have informed the customer with sufficient
time to do it for them.

Bank of America doesn't deserve a pass on this. They screwed up. The court
did, too, but it's BoA's job to hold on to people's money and verify
identities before handing it out. Had they just told the court that the bank
account didn't match the specified person, the court would have taken "no" for
an answer.

------
unlmtd
BoA gave _everybody 's_ money-substitute-government-credit away, but few have
realised it (Even thou BoA says so themselves in their financial statements).
So the guy is lucky in a way; he now doesn't trust the thieves. Even fewer
realise that the banknotes they are so proudly holding have long ago been
defaulted on. It's all running on illusions now. Sell your paper.

~~~
unlmtd
Amazing how much down voting one gets for stating facts.

~~~
function_seven
It’s barely related to this story, and isn’t that interesting of a comment.
Sorry.

