
U.S. Gov Privacy Watchdog Under Pressure to Recommend Facial Recognition Ban - infodocket
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/480152-government-privacy-watchdog-under-pressure-to-recommend-facial-recognition
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tictok4
Good but don't exempt the government.

Many local cities are building out vast networks. Including my very own Miami
Beach Police Department.

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stevehawk
If you're out in public then what privacy are you expecting?

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dathinab
Counter question. Do you expect/are ok with that the moment you leave your
house you are constantly followed by a person with a camera recording
everything you do. Which shops you visite etc.?

Because this is basically what this will sooner or later boil down to, except
that's more subtle (i.e. instead of having a person following you you have a
innumerable amount of cameras sharing the recording burden, but producing the
_same end result_).

Also, you might want to say you don't have to hide anything.

But consider how "god" the cyber security of the police is (or most times is
not). Also consider that there are frequently cases of police misbehaving by
e.g. stalking or discriminating. (I mean there is a lot of police and they are
human so it would be surprising if there wouldn't be such cases). Lastly
consider how long it will take until police stations would want to sell some
most likely very badly anonymized data about people in the city to e.g. shops.

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bsenftner
You realize your phone is providing everything anyone tracking you needs,
without FR, already, TODAY?

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bathtub365
You can turn off your phone. You can’t turn off cameras you don’t control.

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dr01d
You can turn off your phone. You can't turn off the 1000s of phones around you
that you don't control. With cameras, microphones, and GPS.

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morpheuskafka
Title is somewhat misleading, although not intentionally so:

> The Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (PCLOB), an independent
> agency, is coming under increasing pressure to recommend the federal
> government stop using facial recognition.

The PCLOB exists to advise the government on compliance with civil liberties
and privacy principles, not to recommend bans on private activities. This
proposal would only restrict federal agencies, not third parties--unlike
proposals by the EU which would ban private data processors and companies.

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throwaway743
Does this pertain specifically to facial recognition or does this also include
other biometric markers? If solely facial recognition, then this means jack
shit, as people will be identified with other measurements.

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vuln
You’re 100% correct banning facial recognition means jack shit. I guess it’s a
start though.

Chinese ‘gait recognition’ tech IDs people by how they walk
[https://apnews.com/bf75dd1c26c947b7826d270a16e2658a](https://apnews.com/bf75dd1c26c947b7826d270a16e2658a)

~~~
bsenftner
And bad journalism gets repeated: 'gait recognition' is fraud now, it was
something until proved to be unreliable and easily defeated several years ago.
nobody peddling gait recognition is taken seriously - it is almost a line in
the sand for technical idiots trying to cash in, not actual members of the
security industry, just tech opportunists.

~~~
simplify
Easily defeated _if you make the effort_. Do you want a world where we have to
consciously change our gait to "easily defeat" the recognition AI? If not,
then it should be banned too.

~~~
bsenftner
All one needs is different pairs of shoes worn on different days.

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xupybd
This is a good start. We really do need to regulate this stuff. There are far
too many ways this can be abused.

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boopmaster
It would be helpful to have centralized reporting on what entities possess
hashes or content that can be used to derive biometric telemetry, and tools
that allow opt-in for of-age adults, and that offers accessible, no hassle
options to destroy said data + severe penalties for violating said agreements
(cannot do business in the region until data is purged to standards, etc.) I’d
err on the side of “DELET THIS” ahead of worrying about the identity of the
requestor.

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dr01d
I'm using opencv with facial detection running in the browser as JavaScript.
The technology is here and isn't going away.

Realistically, smartphones are tracking everyone all the time and provide rich
datasets. Camera, microphone, and GPS. If you turn off location services your
phone still connects to cell towers, WiFi access points, and Bluetooth
beacons, as you drive or walk around throughout your day.

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AlexCoventry
> The agency, created in 2004, advises the administration on privacy issues.

So the agency came into existence as a fig leaf for the Bush administration...
Any reason to believe it's grown teeth since then?

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papito
I was just thinking the other day how you won't even have to tap your card to
pay for something - just walk up to the register. The future is bright, but
most likely - dark and terrifying.

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snarf21
The future is dark and full of terrors. 1984 and Fahrenheit 451 only scratched
the surface. I truly expect in the future we'll voluntary put ourselves into
the Matrix or the Oasis. It will be the only way to cope because real life
will become so controlled.

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TylerE
I don't think this sort of thing is constructive.

Biometrics is GOING to happen.

I'd rather companies be (potentially) honest, rather than move on the next
thing and not publicize it.

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tjpnz
Since when has a for profit corporation been completely honest with the
public, especially when it comes to something as controversial as this.

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TylerE
Well, if it's BANNED we KNOW they'll lie about it.

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Ididntdothis
There are processes to punish people and companies if they violate a ban and
get found out. Works for theft, murder and other things.

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TylerE
Doesn't really work for corporations. (See: Dieselgate). They don't get caught
for years, if ever.

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Ididntdothis
Then that needs to be fixed. We can’t just accept that companies are above the
law.

~~~
TylerE
So, kind of tying back to earlier ideas.. the government should regulate
effectively... a major source is "off road" engines like lawn mowers.

Diesel cars are not. (Trucks yes, but as ever ever those standards are far
laxer)

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umvi
Facial recognition tech could save so much time and money though. Imagine how
many man hours would be saved if teachers no longer had to take attendance?
Shoplifting would hit all time lows since you wouldn't be able to get away
with it short of wearing a mask into the store.

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kick
_Students_? You're proposing we track _students_? It says something that the
first example that's used (not just you, I've seen it many times elsewhere,
too) is that we track the only group of people who by-and-large cannot
consent, and not only that, but in a way that has permanent implications for
their right to privacy.

Further, the idea of facial recognition being used in every store is
atrocious. Not only can they track you online, now advertisers and the
government can track your offline spending habits and location at all times,
too!

Why hasn't anyone proposed a use for facial recognition that isn't:

1\. Useless (like it is in iOS)

2\. Completely scummy (like it is in both of your examples)

3\. Using it to increase surveillance on populations that cannot legally offer
consent in any way, in areas that they're forced to go to?

I kind of expect it here on HN, given how large of a proportion of adtech and
other surveillance-oriented employees there are here, but I see it everywhere,
and it's just confounding.

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deanCommie
I'm pretty sure that umvi was sarcastic. Think about his last sentence.

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kick
I hate to cross-reference as that's technically breaking the rules, but their
post history doesn't exactly suggest that they're being sarcastic, and their
(three-person, all related) company's privacy policy seems to be "We're taking
your data, and hell yes we're going to sell it."

~~~
umvi
I'm not being sarcastic.

The privacy policy I have on my website is used for exactly one app in the
Google/iOS App store and is based on a template one I found on GitHub. FWIW,
that one app collects exactly zero data on users other than whatever Unity
collects for serving opt-in ads.

