
Gabe Newell Wants to Support Linux, Because Windows 8 is a 'Catastrophe' - checoivan
http://kotaku.com/5929067/gabe-newell-wants-to-support-linux-because-windows-8-is-a-catastrophe
======
trotsky
I'm all for linux support, but clearly he's more worried about a future with
microsoft taking their digital delivery business, not usability.

~~~
ajross
Or Apple, or Google, or Amazon. Steam is, really, just an app store. And
that's becoming part of the platform in the modern world.

Frankly I think the sanest option here would be for MS to simply _buy_ Valve
and turn them into the "Windows App Store". But I can't imagine that happening
given all the internal churn that would be required to eliminate all their
existing online purchase junk.

~~~
arohner
I'm pretty sure Valve wouldn't sell to MS for any amount of money.

Gabe is a billionaire, and left MS to do his own stuff. And Valve culture
sounds incompatible w/ MS culture.

~~~
phaus
I'd go so far as to say that as long as Gabe Newell is alive, I highly doubt
that Valve would sell to anyone at any price.

The man sincerely loves his job, his fans, and especially his team.

------
Donito
The title should be: "Gabe Newell Wants to Support Linux, Because Windows 8 is
a 'Catastrophe' [for steam]".

Steam is, from a user perspective, a video game marketplace on PC. In Win8,
they will have to compete with the built-in windows marketplace, where most
games will published directly. In other words, Win8 is a catastrophe for them
as it's endangering their business.

~~~
jmcqk6
I don't think most games can be published in the windows 8 app store. They
have very strict guidelines about the types of apps that will be listed.
Specifically, only metro-style, full screen apps that use a specific subset of
the .NET framework. I don't know of any games right now that would fit that
requirement, certainly not the types of games that make steam popular.
Especially when you consider the most popular games are exclusive to steam.

~~~
macspoofing
They can change that

~~~
bloaf
That's not what matters. What matters is whether or not they can change it in
time.

~~~
jlgreco
I think he means that Microsoft can change that requirement.

------
megaman821
I don't understand this sentiment. If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop
and forget it even exists. For rarely launched apps, hit the Win key and start
typing the name and for frequently used apps, pin to your taskbar. Steam still
works exactly the same on Windows 8.

~~~
commandar
>If you don't like Metro, launch the desktop and forget it even exists.

Been using W8 on my desktop at work for about a month now. If only it were
that easy.

The big problem is that W8 is insanely inconsistent. Trying to change system
settings can result in having to navigate a byzantine maze guiding you through
new Metro interfaces with old-school control panel applets interspersed
throughout.

The Control Panel still exists, but there's also a Metro PC settings
interface, and trying to search will give you some mix of the two. It's just a
nightmare to navigate.

It's more that the entire user experience sucks than it has anything to do
with any single application.

~~~
ch0wn
I got the same impression so far. Take the Metro Windows Update for example.
It failed for for me repeatedly without giving any reason until I found the
same functionality within the "classic" Control Center where I had to allow
the system to reboot in order to install the updates. This is simply a
horrible experience in every way.

~~~
cooldeal
>It failed for for me repeatedly without giving any reason until I found the
same functionality within the "classic" Control Center where I had to allow
the system to reboot in order to install the updates

Wasn't this on the Beta product? Why is everyone talking as if it's on the RTM
version?

~~~
GauntletWizard
Because when was the last time a Microsoft RTM version fixed any beta bugs?

~~~
yuhong
I would not go that far.

~~~
jlgreco
The point is that people are concerned about shortcomings in the beta because
they do not have confidence in Microsoft to fix those problems. Whether that
lack of confidence is justified or not is another matter.

~~~
drivebyacct2
No, the point is the Release Preview has been out for a month (months?) and
has fixed a lot of the issues that are being mentioned here.

------
ryanisinallofus
Steam has little to worry about in regards to the Windows App Store. They just
need to keep pushing platforms, keep securing great titles, and RELEASE
ANOTHER DAMN HALF LIFE 2 EPISODE. Exclusively on Steam of course.

Steam is pretty great and it's not easy to replicate. See "Google Play."

~~~
ShellfishMeme
> RELEASE ANOTHER DAMN HALF LIFE 2 EPISODE

Probably not going to happen before they release their new gaming console.
They need a good launch title and you know how long it takes them to build a
game.

~~~
trobertson
They have stated, publicly and clearly, that they are not working on a game
console.

~~~
ShellfishMeme
Interesting, I didn't realize that. Thanks for informing me. I guess 'hype'
travels a lot faster than truth.

------
lazugod
It's a catastrophe for Valve if third party markets like Steam don't fit
seamlessly into the future of Windows.

~~~
huggyface
And it's a catastrophe for users if third party markets like Steam don't fit
seamlessly into the future of Windows.

~~~
wtracy
Long-term, yes.

Short-term, if they can still get their games through Microsoft's own market,
they won't care.

~~~
aeturnum
I think that the short-term is where Microsoft needs to incorporate 3rd party
stores. People already have catalogs, some of them quite large, in Steam or
other digital distribution services. Microsoft will either have to attract
users who weren't previously attracted to digital distribution, or they'll
have to support the investments that customers have already made.

Once they level the playing field (by allowing users to use Stream or the MS
App Store without penalty), Microsoft can start to try and draw users away
from 3rd party services. However, in the short term, it's hard to imagine them
drawing users from steam and forcing those same users to abandon their
investment in steam.

~~~
MartinCron
That's an interesting idea. It seems that a software marketplace is just going
to become a part of the computing platform. It would be cool if some platforms
would open up their marketplaces to other vendors. The "Steam" store in the
Windows App Store. It makes the marketplace more like a Mall and individual
providers more like stores.

It may or may not happen, but I like the idea of having multiple options.

------
ilaksh
I use Linux. I am on Ubuntu right now. I just wish I could figure out how to
get the Radeon/whatever graphics drivers right on this Lenovo Ideapad. I gave
up.

I am rooting for Linux, WebGL, and other stuff. Whatever can help take down
Windows is great. If Windows can actually take down Windows, even better.

~~~
MartinCron
_I just wish I could figure out how to get the Radeon/whatever graphics
drivers right on this Lenovo Ideapad. I gave up_

The fact that things like this are still an issue makes me think that it will
take more than just Steam to make desktop Linux more than a tiny niche in the
gaming market.

~~~
estebank
Au contraire, having Steam available might be just enough to push for better
driver support from nVidia and AMD.

~~~
MartinCron
I honestly hope so. Even though I don't use Linux on the desktop anymore (I'm
Mac, mostly) I appreciate the pressure that competition brings.

------
sbierwagen
Blogspam.

Original post is [https://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-
fu...](https://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-
games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/)

~~~
c0nfused
It seems like sbierwagen's linked article makes this a bit clearer than the
op.

I think that the fear he has of Windows 8 is not that Valve will have
competition or that steam will lose market share. it already is fighting
similar offerings from a few different angles. He seems concerned that windows
8 represents a step back from the open platform model of windows. That it
signals an attempt from Microsoft to build their own walled garden to
counteract Apple's. This would inevitably be bad for third parties who make
their living in the Microsoft ecosystem.

Linux then solves the problem because the platform is open. Not in terms of
cost but of access

------
nas
My gut feeling is they have more compelling reasons to port Steam to Linux.
Look at the growth in the number of relatively powerful personal computing
devices (smartphones, tablets, etc) that don't run Windows. It's also been
suggested that Valve is looking at developing their own game console. It is
reasonable to spend some effort making their system less tied to the Windows
API.

------
fpp
After the Vista Candy shop its toy blocks now...

\- haven't looked under the hood of W8 yet but if MS wants to limit me what I
can install on my computer / take over boot / BIOS control this one will
certainly find no home on any of my computers.

Call me old fashioned but if I go to a shop and buy a computer (or have it
send to my place) I actually want to own it and not find a clause on line
432'678 of the license agreement that it's now completely legal that a Seattle
Corp has pwned my computer.

~~~
notatoad
None of those things are true. Microsoft will not limit what you can install,
take over your bios, or control your boot. In fact, windows 8 is the first
windows to play nice with Linux boot loaders. Windows RT (aka tablets) is the
only space where bootloaders will be locked. Don't get me wrong, locking it
down anywhere is a shitty thing to do, but spreading misinformation is also a
shitty thing to do.

~~~
zanny
Secure Boot and signed kernels called. Microsoft is pushing OEMs to sell
laptops in the next several years with forced secure boot for x86 platforms.

~~~
GeneralMaximus
On x86, it's _mandatory_ for OEMs to allow the user to opt-out of Secure Boot.
So even if your new laptop has Secure Boot enabled, you can simply reboot into
the EFI settings and flip a switch to turn it off.

------
cs702
Along with another HN submission ("Changing My Mind On Microsoft"[1]),
Newell's comments are important in and of themselves because of what they
represent: a tectonic shift in the business community's perception of
Microsoft.

Business executives are now openly doubting the future relevance of the
Windows platform!

\--

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4295711>

------
sakopov
Back in my more involved gaming days, Steam was a catastrophe for PC gaming.
Other than picking up a game at a good price and automatically getting game
patches from Steam, there was really nothing great about it. They had
virtually no support. Your best bet was the forums. Throttled downloads were
really fun too. Especially when you download a 5-gig game pack and have to sit
there and resume your download every 5 minutes. Constant startup issues. I was
patiently waiting for Battlefield 3 and was delighted to find out that EA
decided to ditch Steam for this release, however their own Origin platform
wasn't much better. Honestly, If i had to pick between slightly higher prices
at the stores and Steam - i'd pick the stores. With app stores rolling in all
over different platforms i'm afraid to say there is going to be very little
room for Steam and this is probably a good thing. I'd rather see a good remake
of Counter Strike and Half Life from Valve, than a new gaming platform.

~~~
petitmiam
I've never had an issue with throttled downloads. Doesn't your ISP have a
Steam mirror?

Also, Counter-Strike: GO is being released on Aug 21.
<http://store.steampowered.com/app/1800/>

~~~
sakopov
The last game i purchased from Steam was roughly a little over a year ago and
up to that point any game downloads would take days. I'm not on any kind of
uber-fast connection (10mb) and never had any issues with any issues streaming
or downloading content from any other service.

P.S. I have heard of CS:GO which is nothing more than old CS:Source with
improved environment. It isn't a bad game by any means, but it is lagging
behind multiplayer shooters like CoD, Battlefield.

~~~
Goronmon
_The last game i purchased from Steam was roughly a little over a year ago and
up to that point any game downloads would take days. I'm not on any kind of
uber-fast connection (10mb) and never had any issues with any issues streaming
or downloading content from any other service._

You're the first person I've ever heard say that Steam throttled downloads,
and I've heard and had a lot of complaints about Steam in the past. That's
just not one of them. In fact, the only thing close to throttling I've heard
is users wanting the ability to manually throttle game downloads.

I'm not saying your lying, I'm just not sure that it was as a result of
something on Steam's end.

------
petitmiam
_and saying he thinks the future of interaction will be through computerized
wristbands_

How far off are computerised wristbands?

~~~
SkyMarshal
Not far.

[http://www.france24.com/en/20120723-minority-report-
software...](http://www.france24.com/en/20120723-minority-report-software-
hits-real-world)

------
chj
Love the fact that he votes with feet.

------
farinasa
Many people say that they have this or that application that keeps them
clinging to windows and for me it has always been games. If it weren't for
games, I would never use windows on any of my personal machines again, let
alone purchase it. Linux distros don't even sell their products yet somehow
are better thought out than any version of windows.

~~~
viraptor
But they do sell the software. Either directly as a managed solutions to big
companies, or very indirectly implement something per request or to solve an
internal need. Or even offering support or getting some features sponsored.
You may not give them money, but there are people / companies that do.

~~~
farinasa
It makes sense for corporations to pay for support if it costs less than
hiring a team of people to do it. If that is the strategy a company uses to
make their products more accessible to me, I'm all for it.

------
JVIDEL
It makes sense: with Linux support Valve could run roll Steam with a barebones
distro creating their own OS (SteamOS?) to run on top of the rumored SteamBox,
with better control of resources and no need to pay licenses to MSFT.

------
Produce
The year of the Linux desktop?

~~~
MartinCron
The year of the Linux desktop is next year. The same as it has always been.

------
gnufied
It is one thing porting Steam to Linux and quite another making actual games
available on Linux. Take OSX for example,a platform where Steam has been
available for awhile now. and yet around half of most played titles on Steam
are not available on OSX. What is more - Dota2 valve's own game is not
available.

------
valgaze
"According to Newell, there's a guy in Kansas making virtual hats for $150,000
a year. $150,000 a year."

------
pbreit
Has anyone been able to get Windows 8 to work on VirtualBox for Mac? I got it
installed but can't figure out how to make it work. Running W8 in a VM really
demonstrates how silly hiding the Start menu in the bottom-left pixel.

------
tcarey83
I love this. Gabe rules.

------
flannell
hmmmm, is the secret Valve tv/games console Linux based?

------
recoiledsnake
I think the headline of the article is pretty misleading as he means that
Windows 8 is a catastrophe for Steam because of the Windows 8 app store. Looks
like everyone's upvoting the article because they seem to think that Gabe
meant that Windows 8 will be a failure.

Instead of having to go through Steam's distribution, games will have the
option of going directly to the Windows 8 app store and get featured there,
not to mention XBox Live coming to Windows.

Anyone know what Steam's cut for game devs is? Microsoft is charging between
20 to 30%, so Steam seems to be very worried about their revenue stream and
thus supporting Linux as a hedge.

Of course the regular desktop Steam client will keep working, but not on
Windows RT ARM devices. Also, doesn't the WinRT support full DirectX?

Ref. [http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/07/randy-pitchford-on-
steam-v...](http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/07/randy-pitchford-on-steam-valve-
is-taking-a-larger-share-than-i/)

Says Pitchford, "It would be much better if Steam was its own business." If
Valve spun off the content delivery system, it would also remove the perceived
conflict of interest Pitchford takes umbrage with. "Steam helps us as
customers, but it's also a money grab, and Valve is exploiting a lot of people
in a way that's not totally fair," Pitchford says. "Valve is taking a larger
share than it should for the service it's providing. It's exploiting a lot of
small guys."

~~~
james4k
Steam's cut is 30%. However, for that 30% you get to update your game whenever
you want, and virtually as often as you want. By that I mean they don't impose
any direct limits on how often you update, but the general rule is no more
than once a week aside from hotfixes and the like. I'm not aware of any
digital marketplace that gives you this much control, especially as video game
updates will often be hundreds of megabytes in size. Contrast this with
Microsoft's Xbox Live Arcade, which charges you $40k for each additional
update after the first free update. [1]

Edit: It is worth nothing that if a user's game was activated with a retail
key, Steam takes no cut. This means that you are effectively getting service
for that user for free.

You also get Steam Cloud, which allows you to store your users' configuration
and saved game files to be accessed anywhere, their peer-to-peer networking
API which provides NAT punching. Then there's matchmaking, stats/achievements,
Steam Community (their social network), and several other "Steamworks"
features. [2]

Edit: Microtransactions is another big one, also known as in-app purchases.
The online brochure for Steamworks is worth a read if you're interested in any
of this: <http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/index.php>

I haven't read a lot about Windows 8's app store, especially concerning Xbox
Live, but Steam still has a lot to offer to developers.

[1] [http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/microsoft-comes-
under-...](http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/microsoft-comes-under-fire-
for-five-figure-xbox-360-patch-fee/)

[2] <https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/api>

~~~
shock3naw
Wow. $40,000 to push an update. Microsoft should put this into practice
themselves and refund customers whenever Windows needs a patch.

~~~
MattSayar
I believe this approach raises the overall quality of games in the
Marketplace. A developer on Xbox Live Marketplace will be less inclined to
rush out a broken game and release updates every day until it works. If they
have to pay $40k/update, they have an incentive to do it right the first time,
with some leeway to fix unforeseen bugs (the free first update).

~~~
Fargren
That's not very good for small developers that may want to iterate over their
games or provide extra content for their users. Developers who simply do not
have the resources to test in a wide variety for hardware, or to get their
game just perfect for the first update. And as a user, I love having access to
games by these developers. Steam would lose a lot of value to me if it wasn't
such a helpful platform for small devs.

And that's without even getting into updates that provide extra content.
Steam's flagship game, Team Fortress 2, updates at least once a month with
extra (free) content. That generates mayor amounts of good will towards the
devs, and it would be completely unsustainable if the developers had to pay
$40k to update, and another $40k to fix any bugs or imbalances in the update.

~~~
recoiledsnake
>Developers who simply do not have the resources to test in a wide variety for
hardware, or to get their game just perfect for the first update

We're talking about the XBox. There's only one hardware device to test
against.

Also, the first update is free.

~~~
Fargren
I was arguing that this policy would be bad for Steam or other PC marketplace
services. It's possible than on a closed system such as the XBox some of the
disadvantages of this are alleviated or solved. I still think charging the dev
for adding extra content for his game is a very bad idea, though. Team
Fortress 2 for the XBox sucks for it, for example. Regular updates is a good
model for the user, and it hurts the user to charge for content that would
otherwise be free. Alas, I know that helps greatly reduce the number of bugs
in the system.

