
NSA spying: France 'will not tolerate' threat to security - p01926
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33253639
======
socket0
I don't remember so much excitement and fury when it became known that the NSA
was spying on us common folk. "Espionnage? Against le prolétariat? Who gives
une merde?" But suddenly it turns out that the Americans were not only spying
on the unwashed masses, but also our unwashed elite, and it's midnight
meetings at the Elysée and general outrage all round.

~~~
peteri
To be honest it really should be part of the NSA remit to spy on as many world
leaders as possible (friend or foe) I expect GCHQ & whatever the French
equivalent is to be doing exactly the same.

I'd be very surprised if GCHQ weren't at least trying to spy on the US
president and NSA weren't doing the same to the UK prime minister whenever
possible. I'd guess security committee members would also be spied upon as
well.

I don't know how far they would go though in terms of breaking and entering to
plant bugs etc but they've only got to make look it's a hostile powers work to
get away with it.

It's probably only the difficulty of the denials if they get caught that would
affect the likelihood of five eyes members spying on each other.

Given the French supposedly bugged Concorde it's seems a bit rich of them to
complain.

~~~
belorn
When the US president invites allies to the white-house, I would assume there
to be quite of an outcry if guests were found to plant bugs on phones and
network switches. I would expect headlines to include "human lives are put at
risk" and "we expect invited allies to behave according to national treaties"
in all of the large news papers.

I would not expect to see a shrug and a "owell, thats what spying is for,
right?".

~~~
Amezarak
> I would not expect to see a shrug and a "owell, thats what spying is for,
> right?".

The French secret service is infamous for its espionage. They have even been
accused of bugging hotel rooms and airline flights to gain classified US
information.

[http://articles.philly.com/1992-10-24/news/25999062_1_aerosp...](http://articles.philly.com/1992-10-24/news/25999062_1_aerospace-
industry-air-france-dgse) [http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/14/news/14iht-
spy_.html](http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/14/news/14iht-spy_.html)

And until Snowden, the collective reaction was indeed "meh." Well, Germany did
call France the 'evil empire' of industrial espionage, but nobody cared.
Apparently the US only ever confidentially complained when it became too
overt.

So France screaming about US spying is rather like the pot calling the kettle
black. It's done for political reasons, not because the French government
really believes it's wrong.

~~~
rjaco31
Your articles are 25 years old though.

~~~
Amezarak
> Your articles are 25 years old though

Yes. Do you have any reason to think things have changed?

This is a game that's been played by every nation against every nation for six
thousand years.

------
thibaut_barrere
This is so meta: "US Intercepts of France Complaining About US Intercepts of
France"

[https://wikileaks.org/nsa-
france/intercepts/#intercept1](https://wikileaks.org/nsa-
france/intercepts/#intercept1)

------
Bedon292
Not saying that it excuses any of the actions, nor am I trying to be
inflammatory, but I have a serious question.

Does anything really think that France, or Germany, or any other nations is
not doing the exact same thing to the US? All governments spy on each other,
even allies. That is how its been for probably the entirety of human history,
and probably will be for foreseeable future.

~~~
simonh
Well yes of course they are. But what you're not supposed to do is get caught
at it.

~~~
Bedon292
Ok, very valid point. But if everyone is doing it to everyone else and
everyone knows it, then what does 'getting caught' actually do? Why bother
feigning outrage at it?

~~~
adestefan
It makes for good headlines and boils up the drums of nationalism.

------
mladenkovacevic
They'll huff and puff about this for a little while to give the illusion of
surprise and indignation, but after the dust has settled and any offences have
been swept under the rug, it'll be back to business of taking orders from the
NSA while hoping their dirt stays hidden and no challenges to their legitimacy
are posed. Same as Germany.

[http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33106044](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-
europe-33106044)

------
yodsanklai
I assume Hollande knew about this. The French will pretend to be upset, and
the US will pretend that it has never happened. End of the story.

~~~
hrbrtglm
I find it amusing that you are opposing on one side a population and on
another a country.

So let me rephrase it for you : France will pretend to be upset ... It's part
of the game.

As a french, I just don't give a s __US spying our officials, I 'm much more
worried any foreign secret service achieving it. It just shows how much our
defense and digital security is weak. If I'm angry, it's towards our own
services which can't prevent this kind of stuff.

------
stefantalpalaru
Original source: [https://wikileaks.org/nsa-
france/](https://wikileaks.org/nsa-france/)

------
pnathan
Yes, yes, it's not very gentlemanly to read each other's mail. We know, Mr.
Stimson.

And the world will go on, with diplomats and heads of state spied on, like
they have been for the past 60 years, because that is how the Great Game works
these days.

------
TACIXAT
The French (allegedly) write malware as well. Their group is known as Animal
Farm.

[https://securelist.com/blog/research/69114/animals-in-the-
ap...](https://securelist.com/blog/research/69114/animals-in-the-apt-farm/)

------
mirimir
> The fact is that the French and US intelligence services enjoy a degree of
> cooperation and interdependence that no government in Paris would ever dream
> of jeopardising.

Well, but France isn't one of the Five Eyes. I can't imagine that the French
have intercepts from President Obama. But from what I've read, it's
conceivable that Israel does.

Given that information is power, who's in charge?

~~~
redblacktree
Wouldn't you like to know.

~~~
mirimir
It would amuse me.

But otherwise, it arguably wouldn't matter.

------
pjc50
Which translates as "will tolerate", because what could they possibly do about
it? The DGSE aren't exactly clean themselves.

------
higherpurpose
France Pays Lip Service To Protecting Against US Surveillance.

Just like Merkel earlier, yet at the same time telling her prosecutors to stop
investigating the US surveillance.

~~~
VeejayRampay
Also Germany was spying on France:
[https://euobserver.com/defence/128524](https://euobserver.com/defence/128524)

It's pretty much a bunch of people spying on each other.

