

Why Teachers Like Me Support Unions - REducator
http://www.anurbanteacherseducation.com/2011/03/why-teachers-like-me-support-unions.html

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TomOfTTB
I don't necessarily disagree with his points. School administrators are
corrupt a lot of the time. And schools are run in a way that's
counterproductive a lot of the time.

But the flaw in his logic is that he's saying we need another corrupt system
to balance out the corrupt administrative system. When the real point seems to
be that the system in its entirety is corrupt. From the school administration
to the school unions.

The real answer is that any system that's not held accountable will become
corrupt. Given that we have to ask the question of whether the unions help
make the system as a whole more accountable.

Or in other words I agree that unions are only half the problem but they're
still part of the problem and not the solution.

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plehoux
Here in Quebec we always get that same argument that teachers unions are in
the end the safeguard of our education system, status quo.

A new political party (<http://www.coalitionavenir.org/>) proposed an option
to increase teacher's accountability. They proposed an automatic salary raise
of 35% to all of Quebec public school teachers but in exchange unions had to
drop seniority, let schools evaluate teachers each year and give them the
possibility to lay-off the rotten tomatoes. Guess what was the unions response
to this fair deal ... NEVER. You can make your own conclusion...

Unions are not even fighting for their members they are fighting for their own
survival.

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mhb
School choice ([http://www.edchoice.org/School-Choice/What-is-School-
Choice....](http://www.edchoice.org/School-Choice/What-is-School-Choice.aspx))
via vouchers addresses the needs of students. Presumably he should support
that since it will keep "malicious administrators" in check the same way
supermarket choice keeps malicious supermarket managers in check.

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anigbrowl
Ireland, where I grew up, has public education but also a pretty free school
choice system. I think it's better than the US approach, but it's not a magic
bullet.

Retail competition works well because there isn't a huge cost involved with
trying out or switching to a competing supplier. Switching schools is a big
disruption for everyone involved, and a market that can't clear in the normal
economic way, same as healthcare/insurance. So while I'm supportive of your
idea, it's only part of a broader approach to reform.

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warrenwilkinson
It seems a lot of money goes into massive school complexes. In a more free
education market, I think you'd see smaller neighborhood schools, which would
make school switching much less costly.

A teacher needs a single room, which can be in a community center, a small
office, or their home. If the licensing requirements for teachers and schools
were removed it would be easy to setup. Parents could decide who qualified to
teach, instead of bureaucrats.

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anigbrowl
_Parents could decide who qualified to teach, instead of bureaucrats._

This already happens via elected school boards. And you get people teaching
intelligent design instead of evolution. I see the point you're trying to
make, but think you're being wildly optimistic and over-simplifying the
problem to boot.

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pkteison
Sure, they're a great idea. Idea. In reality, teachers unions don't seem to
care about actually educating kids. Particular example, why was the rubber
room process in NY so hard to get rid of? And why does that seem like the
norm? Anybody who cares about education should despise a system that makes it
take years to fire people who -deserve- to be fired.

Author just ignores the 'they are often corrupt' and 'arguments against unions
emphasize their attention to the interests of the teachers at the expense of
the students' points - they get one sentence and then dropped. This reads like
an argument in favor of communism. Look at it on paper, looks great. Doesn't
work well with actual people involved.

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gms
I would have liked the post to include specific instances and episodes that
illustrate why teacher unions are a good idea. As it stands, it's difficult
(impossible?) for me to evaluate

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tomrod
Unions are great when the group supported is homogeneous. Otherwise, in my
opinion alone, they are pretty inefficient to the functioning of the firm.

I don't say that people shouldn't have the right to collectively bargain. I
just worry about the right balance of power between right-to-work and union
extremes.

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maratd
The problem with public schools aren't just unions. He's right. Corrupt
administrators mostly stem from the direct transfer of school funds. Because
the funds are transferred in bulk from government entities, there's plenty of
opportunity for nepotism, corruption, and other unfortunate side-effects.
Everybody wants a piece of that pie.

Easily solved by eliminating the proxy of those government officials.
Vouchers. Since the parents are channeling the cash, it makes it much more
difficult to grab a piece of it. On top of that, parents can exert significant
force to make sure teachers are treated fairly, especially if they're the ones
writing the checks.

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mhb
_When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start
representing the interests of school children._

Albert Shanker - past president of the American Federation of Teachers

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ChrisNorstrom
Keeping your job regardless of performance is what's wrong with the core
element of many unions. Not all unions are corrupt but the majority of them
fit the description my mom gave them, "Unions are to protect lazy workers". By
the way, she's a union bus & light rail operator for 10+ years.

