
Ask HN: Why the Hacker News community is always hating on new ideas? - greenburg
Most of the times I read something with &quot;Show HN&quot;, I see lots of hate and negative energy in the comments. These people are hungry for appreciation as they spent months building their product&#x2F;tool&#x2F;startup. Why don&#x27;t we give them a helpful criticism while support them?
======
thecrash
There are plenty of online communities one can approach for general
encouragement and moral support.

People choose to Show HN specifically because they know appreciation isn't
automatic here. They don't just want a pat on the head, they want to know if
they're doing it right.

Often, learning that your idea simply isn't valuable to others (or even worth
their time) is very helpful and motivating towards future development.

I do think there's room to ask that people's so-called negative comments at
least be detailed, but this goes for positive/supportive comments too, in my
opinion. I don't want to just be told to keep trying, I want help thinking
about what exactly to try next.

------
thisisit
Firstly, I have a gripe against the word "hate". No one is hating anything, it
is critiquing. The question becomes is how do you take it?

And frankly for me the new trends seems to be asking the question - "Why does
HN hate X?" with X being blockchain, Tesla, etc take your pick. This kind of
negative questioning leads to two conclusions:

 _If_ HN does actually hate X, then it turns into a public shaming. And no one
on the internet admits they are doing anything wrong. So, good luck trying to
talk sense.

 _If_ HN doesn't hate a topic, then you are implying that even simple comments
are hateful. And slowly things will turn _against_ your topic of choice.

------
smt88
My perception is the opposite. Someone would honestly have to do an analysis
of Show HNs to figure out whose perception is correct. My suspicion is that it
doesn't skew strongly one way or the other.

------
tomhoward
It would help to give some specific examples of threads or comments you think
are hateful.

The more active HN users, with the support of the moderators, are quite
vigilant about downvoting or flagging nasty comments.

Can you give any examples of nasty or mean comments that appear high up in the
comment thread and/or without being faded or flagged?

The whole idea of Show HN is to encourage people to build interesting things
and get feedback to help them improve their project and/or skills. So,
constructive criticism should be welcomed whereas meanness should be weeded
out any time it appears.

If you're seeing mean comments in Show HN posts, you should flag and downvote
those comments and consider reporting them to the moderators at
hn@ycombinator.com.

~~~
eesmith
Based on the first page of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/shownew](https://news.ycombinator.com/shownew)
(30 postings, 29 are "Show HN", 12 have comments):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548331](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548331)
\- both comments by the show-er.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17547703](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17547703)
\- one non-author comment, author responded along the lines "good point" but
"edge case".

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17546384](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17546384)
\- one comment, possibly negative (a complaint about the use of the word
'certificated').

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17545446](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17545446)
\- one non-author comment, seems like a valid critique

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544832](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544832)
\- only one author comment

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544332](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544332)
\- only one author comment

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544330](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17544330)
\- only one author comment

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17541458](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17541458)
\- only one author comment

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17541114](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17541114)
\- I felt the one comment was negative. I have added a more positive followup.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540687](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540687)
\- the one comment starts "Genius"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540393](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540393)
\- a meta Show HN doing sentiment analysis on Show HN. Many comments. Mixed.
Seems overall positive.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540210](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540210)
\- only one author comment

From this I conclude that 1) Most Show HNs go uncommented, even when the
author tries to encourage feedback by adding a comment, and 2) it is not the
case that "the HN community is always hating on new ideas."

------
lioeters
I think it's due to the fact that many HN people prefer to give honest
analysis/opinion, even if the truth hurts. In the long run, it's probably more
useful that way to whomever posted, to get "real-life" feedback at least from
a technical perspective.

The question did make me think, whether there's a small part that supports the
stereotype(?) of "smart" people, or those working in IT/tech, having less
empathy and emotional consideration. Kindness can be seen as unnecessary or
even harmful sugar-coating..

------
SimeVidas
I don’t read Show HN much, but I wonder how much of that hate and negativity
is just plain objective criticism that it merely perceived negatively by some.
On the internet, if you don’t use smileys or polite language, you sometimes
seem negative even if you just make normal observations or ask logical
questions. That’s just how anonymous online communication is, unfortunately.

------
scardine
My theory is that communities like HN and StackOverflow are a magnet for very
smart people with a very direct style of communication. Yes, they sound sassy
or snarky but most have no intention to be mean. They just lack most of the
brain circuitry to refrain from comment or beat around the bush.

~~~
DoreenMichele
In person, voice tone, facial expression etc help convey warmth and kindness.
On the internet, all you have is words (unless you go out of your way to
include emoticons, gifs, etc, which are not the norm on HN). This often sounds
far harsher than was intended.

------
redleggedfrog
Hitting the "show" link in the top nav and reading by date, the thing that
struck me the most was not the "negative energy" but the lack of comments. A
lot of people showing but apparently not so many paying attention. Some seem
pretty nifty...

------
chewz
Some cultures (and subcultures) value honest, sharp critique and in others it
is perceived as direct, personal attack. See the culture - cognition
connection [1]

[1]
[http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb06/connection.aspx](http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb06/connection.aspx)

[2] [https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/17/learning-to-embrace-
confli...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/17/learning-to-embrace-conflict-as-
a-part-of-startup-culture/)

------
dbwest
I'm not going to lie if something is badly presented or mediocre. I don't
think that helps the team that made it or the quality of HN.

I don't want people to be sad or hurt either.

Sometimes it looks like something is opportunistic or scammy. In that case you
flag it. If something seems clueless and doesn't seem to have a lot of work or
thought behind it I hope people want to help when they level harsh criticism.
In these cases people need direction and it's a case where guidance or
mentorship might help. It's so important to do this with care.

------
mping
It's not hate, it's armchair criticism most of the time. People assume their
engineering skills transfer over any walk of life, so they feel entitled to
voice an opinion just by taking a glance at an idea/code/site/etc. You know,
devs have strong opinions about lots of stuff.

It takes a somewhat special individual to be able to give helpful criticism,
even if he/she thinks it's nonsense.

------
Simulacra
I think a lot of the negative energy comes from that startup-frustration that
many in Silicon Valley feel. Every idea sucks unless they came up with it,
because nobody wants to be left out of the next Facebook, Uber, etc. That
attitude permeates everything.

------
ofrzeta
I can't see this. From my experience there's a lot of respect for people
getting stuff to the point that they are willing to Show HN. Sometimes there's
some honest critique that's really helpful if you are willing to listen.

------
nathanaldensr
The implication that people who complain about "negative energy" are making is
that negative energy has no value or negative value; it doesn't. I'd be
willing to say that skepticism has far more value than pats on the back.
Children need pats on the back, not adults.

~~~
eesmith
I do not like your last sentence. The implication is that that those who do
not like negative criticism are immature.

There are many times when adults have an emotional need for a pat on the back.
I know I have that feeling sometimes.

Here's one I came across just the other day -
[https://youtu.be/UPS4nxI0b9g?t=826](https://youtu.be/UPS4nxI0b9g?t=826) .
"But there's no one here to pat me on the back. It sucks."

I also think there are times when negative energy has negative value.

The same person, in the video at
[https://youtu.be/4nqJiBRNQuw?t=855](https://youtu.be/4nqJiBRNQuw?t=855) ,
after many frustrating attempts at trying to make a Kit-Kat from scratch, says
"I want you to know that I can accept zero criticism right now." I respect her
for recognizing that need and expressing it, and for her co-workers to
acknowledge that need and support her.

------
kull
I think it is the case unless a product is free / open source ?

------
senectus1
I've seen several (recently too) new idea's or projects floated here that got
heaps of very positive feedback.

I think your premise is flawed.

------
Cypher
resistances to change.

------
mkempe
The negativity became dominant post-PG. Unfortunately and disappointingly.

[added] To elaborate: his regular essays were thought-provoking and
challenging, in a way that generally drove HN commenters to think and
contribute. Nowadays there is a discouraging excess of emoting and belittling,
even though the moderators have stepped up their nudges and interventions.

~~~
faizshah
That isn't true, the most famous example of HN negativity is Show HN: Dropbox
which has been reposted quite a few times on HN since dropbox became dropbox.

Example:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6625306](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6625306)

~~~
seba_dos1
Uhm... how exactly is this thread a display of "negativity"? Most of the
comments are pretty supportive and the critique was mostly placed on project's
communication and not yet well-defined business model, which actually made a
lot of sense.

Even the famous _" you can already build such a system yourself (...) by FTP,
curlftpfs, SVN, CVS"_ comment, which was often cited later as ridiculous,
actually ends with a supportive reply and overall makes sense in the context
of the whole thread. Heck, even comments like "seen it before in Coda" are in
fact supportive and thankful. It's all very sensible, positive and IMO only
worth any particular note here if you are (quite paradoxically) blinded with
hindsight ;P

~~~
eesmith
I agree with you. Zed Shaw wrote an essay a few months ago on this topic, at
[https://zedshaw.com/2018/03/25/the-billionaires-vs-
brandonm/](https://zedshaw.com/2018/03/25/the-billionaires-vs-brandonm/) .

> In 2007 what ... wrote is actually valid given the environment. It was a
> total long shot that Dropbox would go anywhere, and hell it took a whole 11
> fucking years for them to IPO. Box did it in 2014 and competes rather well
> compared to Dropbox. But let’s break down his comments from a 2007
> perspective:

I agree with Shaw's analysis as well.

------
ModernMech
Life lesson: People have hated on new ideas in every community since the dawn
of time. Hacker news is not special in that regard. Just learn to deal with it
by finding conviction in your ideas.

~~~
mkempe
"Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps down new roads
armed with nothing but their own vision. Their goals differed, but they all
had this in common: that the step was first, the road new, the vision
unborrowed, and the response they received — hatred. The great creators — the
thinkers, the artists, the scientists, the inventors — stood alone against the
men of their time. Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new
invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane
was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia
was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They
fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won."

------
ENGNR
Byzantine fault tolerance and zero knowledge proofs, so cool! Oh it's being
done by people using it for distributed ledgers? Boooo now we hate it

I've realized I have to broaden my news intake as even this community has it's
collective blind spots

~~~
ENGNR
Check out the top post on EthTrader, it's about Sir Isaac Newton losing money
in a scam. HN is not the only ones with this opinion

[https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/8zamjw/sir_isaac...](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/8zamjw/sir_isaac_newton_got_the_fomo_despite_being_one/)

