
Tinke: Heart rate, blood oxygen level and more at your fingertip - pablosanchez
http://www.zensorium.com/tinke/
======
benwerd
I love the idea for the device itself. But I absolutely do not want this data
to be social, or transmitted anywhere besides a secure, encrypted repository
under my own control that I can optionally grant selective access to. Here's
why.

My mother has something called idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. My aunt also had
it. Their mother _also_ had it. It kills as many people as breast cancer every
year, by progressively scarring the lungs until it's impossible to breathe.
There's no cure except for new lungs. (My mother is waiting for a double lung
transplant right now.) As you might expect, measuring blood oxygen efficiency
is a good way to track the progress of the condition.

As a result, carrying a smart blood oxygen meter that also measures number of
breaths and general health / stress levels really appeals to me. But the
health situation here in the States, and in many countries, is fucked (albeit
a little better than it was, thanks to our friends at the Obama
Administration). Let's say I contracted the condition (although there's no
proof that there's a genetic link), or it looked like I might be beginning to
succumb, going by my vital signs. The consequences of this information falling
into the wrong hands could range from an impact on my career to my insurance
standing. It could potentially ruin my life.

Photos of my last Blue Bottle coffee, checkins at Bourbon & Branch, or Lift
goal ticks are one thing. This kind of data should not be on a centralized
service, in a database I can't directly access. Not ever. And the rise of this
kind of product makes me think that there needs to be a sort of WordPress for
encrypted personal data, sooner rather than later.

~~~
pablosanchez
I agree that this information should be private (that's why Google Health
didn't work as GOOG planned, right?).

But they offer a way for you to make your information private.

I think the encryption makes even more sense in services like
<https://www.23andme.com> where you're getting genetic analysis information.

~~~
dmix
Google Health failed because there was very feel health SaaS companies and EHR
systems in place when it launched. Second, it didn't really provide much value
to them if they did use the APIs. And third the UI and marketing page were
very mediocre.

I run a health app and very few people (far less than I expected) over the
last 3 years showed concern about privacy.

We've actually had more emails about people wanting us to add social features
so they could connect with others like themselves.

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zacharyvoase
I really want this. But I'm not going to buy it, because of the form factor,
iOS-only connector, closed-source hardware, firmware and application.

You might be familiar with sleep apnea, which is a condition in which (one way
or another) you stop breathing while asleep, for ten seconds to a few minutes.
The cause could be something in your nervous system (we still don't really
understand what), or an obstruction in your airways. The result is that you
wake up, sometimes with a fight-or-flight (i.e. adrenaline) response. Sleep
apnea sufferers wake up several times per night, sometimes not remembering
every episode. The net result is that even though, on waking up 'finally', you
think you've had a solid 8 hours, you actually had a large number of disrupted
sleeps. It's annoying and harmful, and the worst thing is that you might not
even know you're a sleep apnea sufferer—when you wake up due to an apnea
event, you're typically unaware that it was because you stopped breathing.

This is relevant because, during an apnea episode (and before waking) blood
oxygen saturation will drop noticeably. So an easy and accurate way of self-
diagnosing is to monitor blood oxygen saturation over the course of the night.
Cross-reference those data with a Zeo, say, and you have a cheap, accurate
method of self-diagnosis.

I've suspected that I have sleep apnea for a while now. But I don't have an
iPhone any more (I sold it and got a Nexus 4), the Tinké doesn't support
taking a continuous passive log (since you need to actively press your thumb
to it), and I want to do more interesting things with the data than this
company's app developers and designers will ever think of, or allow me to. So
I guess I'll have to wait until someone else builds something that addresses
this need, or build one myself.

~~~
cma
Don't wait; go to a doctor about this. Unless you don't have insurance.. then
you might as well wait til 2014 when you won't have an excuse not to have
insurance.

~~~
zacharyvoase
I live in the UK; I have insurance simply by being a citizen (though it can
take months to get an appointment with a doctor).

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stephen
"It also brings personal wellness to a social platform."

Fuck everything being social. I am super interested in my health and fitness
but for my own edification, not to broadcast it to the world.

(I'm sure it's an optional feature, but, seriously, being social has to make
everyone's MVP now.)

~~~
ncavig
I absolutely agree. The two most important features to me would be the
accurate and measurability of the inputs (heart rate, o2 saturation, etc) and
the ability to get that data (API). I don't want my friends to know I just
reached 120BPM in my exercise routine, but I may want to set up an app myself
to do something based on my heart rate going to a certain level, or better
yet, if my parents heart rate meets some threshold it shouldn't be at

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pavel_lishin
Excellent presentation, but leaves me with two questions.

1\. Why the iPhone-only connector?

2\. My stepfather, back in ye olden days, tried to create a similar product
(albeit, this was before ubiquitous mobile computing devices) and ran into all
sorts of regulatory FDA issues because they classified it as a medical device,
and required the construction of a hoop factory before you were allowed to
even start jumping through them.

~~~
pathdependent
Re: #2, from <http://www.zensorium.com/tinke/specs.html>:

    
    
       WARNING
    
       Tinké is NOT a medical device. Tinké and its associated
       applications should not be used to diagnose, treat, or
       prevent any disease or medical condition. Always seek 
       the advice of a qualified medical professional.
    

It seems like the same type of logic applied to over-the-counter drugs that
call themselves supplements -- it's not a "drug" if the marketers don't make
certain claims. In the case of Tinké, they are providing a means for
collecting data and do not make any claims that the product will directly
affect your health.

~~~
nradov
The FDA's definition of what is or is not a medical device has nothing at all
to do with nutritional supplements; those are covered by entirely separate
rules. In reality this product probably _is_ a Class 1 medical device, which
is subject to only very light regulation. The FDA might decide to ignore it
for a while until it becomes a larger issue. If you talk to actual FDA
staffers they're trying to encourage innovation in this space by not being too
heavy handed, while still protecting patients.

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sxp
Why does this cost $80 more than other similar devices[1]? The website is
doesn't show any useful added features other than iPhone support and all the
screenshots are at an angle so it's difficult to see what the readout and
graphs look like compared to the normal devices that are out there on the
market. I guess having it automatically record each session is easier than
having to manually open up a spreadsheet on your phone/PC and record the data,
but that doesn't seem like $80 worth of features and some of the other higher
end devices have various levels of history and exporting of data.

And the website causes my slick-marketing-plus-low-useful-information-implies-
crappy-product sense to tingle due to the lack of upfront pricing, the
avoidance of useful screenshots of the app, and phrases like "Zen index" and
"social platform"

[1] <http://www.amazon.com/s/?keywords=pulse-oximeter>

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jug6ernaut
Proprietary ports suck. This could be the most awesome device in the world but
being strictly limited to iOS devices means i will never buy one.

That and i hate having to plug things in to sync, wireless sync is the future
imo. With BT4.0 there is no reason not to.

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sek
Seriously the old iPhone connector?

<http://www.zensorium.com/assets/gallery/2/7.jpg>

This was a really bad business decision.

~~~
simonbarker87
Something like this takes a long time to develop - you may find that
development started well before Apple announced the new port style

~~~
pavel_lishin
Which is why it seems to make more sense to use a standard USB connector. (I
forget the legalities of shipping things with an iPhone connector included,
but I remember there being a hubbub about it.)

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dr_
Beyond heart rate, I guess the bigger question is how valuable is all of this
data for the average, relatively healthy, individual? There is probably some
fluctuation in our daily heart rate and O2 sats, etc. that we are not even
aware of, and are in all likelihood irrelevant, but this could potentially
make one a little paranoid. I could see this as coming in handy in a
healthcare setting, such as a nursing facility where patients are recovering
while receiving physical therapy, and need to be more carefully monitored. But
functionality is going to be more important in that setting than design is,
and you're probably paying a bit of a premium here for design.

~~~
santoshmaharshi
I pre-ordered one. Not impressed and agree with dr_7. Instead of a abstract
health metrics, if you really have a health need - any standard personal
electronics blood pressure monitor is much better choice.

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mattlong
If it weren't bound to iOS, I would have bought one on the spot.

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alimoeeny
Not very thrilled: "Currently your data can only be viewed on your smartphone.
Future capabilities for PC compatibility will be announced when available."

~~~
kmfrk
I don't like the closed sound of that. All those armbands - and to some degree
my Withings weight makes it so hard to share and utilize my data in more
interesting ways, especially for those of us who want to plot our data with
d3.js.

I want to use this data to show to my _doctor_ , not myself. And free,
exportable access to all my data would allow me to create a simple static
webpage displaying all my biometrics.

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lhl
As others have mentioned, simple pulse oximeters are much cheaper ($20-50).

But pulse oximeters w/ connectivity are generally more expensive. The Nonin
9560 Onyx 2 is probably the best known (BT 2.0) - the best price I could find
online for that was $340. The MedChoice MD300C318T (BT) I found online for
€199 (~$267). These are the two models that are compatible w/ apps like <a
href="[http://simpleeye.com/platforms/android/bluetooth-pulse-
oxime...](http://simpleeye.com/platforms/android/bluetooth-pulse-
oximeter/>SimpleEyes) Android app</a>.

However, there is a cheaper alternative - the Contec CMS-50E (USB) and
apparently a new CMS50EW that also has Bluetooth, can be bought for around
$85. I haven't tried the wireless version, but the USB version works well, w/
good community support (<a
href="[http://ian.ahands.org/progs/pulseox/>reverse](http://ian.ahands.org/progs/pulseox/>reverse)
engineered protocol</a>) and can be run continuously.

For those interested in actually having/using this type of data, I'd really
recommend this over the Tinke, since it doesn't give you access to your data
at all (and of course, is limited to connecting to older iOS devices) and
generally looks to be just gimmicky.

Lastly, I recommend taking a look at the Wikipedia article to learn more about
<a
href="[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximetry>pulse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximetry>pulse)
oximetry</a>. While Tinke is using it as some sort of overall health
diagnosis, it's really most useful for diagnosis of things like sleep
disorders (like OSA) or other types of hypoxia (or monitoring for that). I'm
pretty doubtful about it's usefulness for monitoring overall health, although
it's fun to play with (watch your SpO2 drop as you hold you're breath, wee!)

------
kfury
Bluetooth would have been a much better solution.

~~~
gonzo
Well, BTLE, ya.

------
jimrandomh
No, this is useless. A heart rate/blood oxygen level sensor should attach to
your finger or wrist so you can keep it on while you're doing things. Most
sensors do that, but this one doesn't, and the form factor means it can't.
Making it plug into an iPhone docking port adds some novelty features, but
they compromised core functionality to enable it.

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ashbrahma
Really good website! Not sure it adds much value. Can someone ELI5 (explain
like I am 5) why blood oxygen level is important?

~~~
meta
I am not a doctor. The body is quite good at keeping high ox levels. If your
ox level is too low cell damage can occur, organ damage, etc. If your ox level
gets way to low your die.

Lower than normal ox levels can help diagnose that something is "wrong" with
your body (or your environment) - lung damage, heart issues, etc. It can't
tell you what is wrong, just something is up.

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gonzo
This seems relatively easier to do with BTLE (aka "Bluetooth Smart") heart
rate monitor and pluse oximeter. Former is for sale already, and I saw a bunch
of the later at CES.

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drharris
Everybody has some valid feedback, but does anybody else read this as
"Tinkle"? The 8 year old inside me is giggling.

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RandallBrown
Will this device do any better than the apps that already measure these things
using the camera on the iPhone?

~~~
borgchick
The ones that use the iPhone's camera can get heart rate, but I have not seen
one that can get blood oxygen level.

~~~
pablosanchez
I don't think blood oxygen level can be measured using the phone's camera.
Also, I read an article lately regarding the low level of accuracy regarding
heart rate measured using an iPhone camera. I'll try to find it and post it.

~~~
bathat
Depending on the spectrum of the phone camera's flash LED, you might be able
to get away with just putting a diffraction grating in front of the camera. I
recall, from reading a TI app note about pulse oximeters a while back, that
these work by comparing the relative intensity of IR and a visible-red light
transmitted through the finger (and that there was also some way to do it with
reflected light). I wonder if there is a clever way to calibrate the grating
without any extra hardware?

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_fs
Why do I need an 80$ device to check my heart rate? What ever happened to a
watch and checking your pulse with a finger? Breath rate? A watch and monitor
your breathing. Blood oxygen level? A $20 device on Amazon.com. This is
overpriced and not that useful. Am I the only one that does not want to update
my friends facebook feed with my personal health metrics?

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chadscira
Besides being iOS specific, does this even support the lightning connector?

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gmaster1440
No blood sugar readings :(

