

Expect IBM to leave Vermont within three years (2012) - geogra4
http://www.greenmountaindaily.com/diary/9386/expect-ibm-to-leave-vermont-within-three-years-no-matter-what-we-do

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jordanb
This has been happening for a while, ever since IBM remade itself as a
consultancy, they've been shifting operations to low-cost countries. Granted,
"International" is certainly in their name and the consultancy service is
called "Global Services" so you have to admit there's some truth in
advertising there.

The funny thing is that their moving offshore seems entirely focused on
improving their own profitability. Which is to say, they're not moving off
shore to compete on price, they're doing so for their own benefit. So from the
customer's perspective, IBM Global Services is all about buying Indian labor
at paying on-shore large American consultancy rates for it.

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cbs
IBM has been in the process of leaving Vermont for a decade. The writing isn't
just on the wall, they've been actively shedding everything other than the
line. If I remember correctly it was blamed on the state of VT not giving them
favorable enough treatment. It was so long ago I don't remember exactly what
happened with the state, but they were going to axe one of the plants at
either Essex VT or Fishkill NY no matter what VT/NY did.

More generically speaking, IBM has been getting worse at seeing past the next
quarter. I know people that got the boot in the first big round of VT layoffs
that make _much_ more money to keep doing their same old job, for the same
plant, just this time as sub-sub-sub-contractors.

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kls
This article is slightly dubious. I have done a lot of work for IBM, they have
been a great client, I admit that, that fact may bias me a bit but from my
perspective, what IBM has been doing is reducing permanent workforce with
contract labor, that can be scaled up and down on a per-project basis. Is it a
cost cutting measure? sure. Does it mean that Americans are loosing jobs? no.
But it is easy to skew the numbers when you only show that IBM is shedding
jobs. But when it is all tallied some of those jobs are being replaced with US
based contract labor. This is the reality of the US technical workforce many
times after a project you just don't need specific technical talent. The
workers don't want to pasture and the employers don't want to carry them until
they have work they can utilize them on. My experience is IBM has been moving
to an on-demand workforce model. Their is no doubt that some of that is moving
offshore but without mentioning the upswing in US based contractors the
article does not paint the whole picture. Another fact not mentioned but that
I hear from many IBM'ers turned freelancer is their average take home is
higher in this model because IBM is willing to pay higher rates to only have
to engage when the deals are inked.

There is a whole argument to be made about their ability to retain really
talented individuals with this model, but it's just not the market they
service.

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randomfool
If so, I find it even more disturbing that the workforce would have limited
interest in the long-term success of their team or their company.

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kls
Enterprise America is very different from small company America, that is why I
made mention of talent retention, it is a tangential but related conversation
but it does not really fit in the space of what the article is lamenting. I
have worked in both, I prefer small business America because their is a
stronger focus on quality and individualism but sometimes the enterprise is
where the bills are paid. Those of us not in the valley have to split our
times between what we would like to do and lucrative contracts that the likes
of companies like IBM provide.

The interesting part is it has created a culture of something akin to special
forces teams, where groups of caravan style freelancers who have worked
together in ad-hoc groups tend to come together on contracts many who have
worked together many times over the years and yet other who have worked with
others that you know. So sometimes you will go into a contract with guys that
you don't know, but you know of them so the relationship develops quickly
because it is like you know them. They are very talented individuals, but it's
almost a mercenary mentality. They do quality work, but it is almost a robotic
professionalism.

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shortlived

        The direct impetus for this column is IBM’s internal plan to grow 
        earnings-per-share (EPS) to $20 by 2015. The primary method for 
        accomplishing this feat, according to the plan, will be by reducing 
        US employee head count by 78 percent in that time frame.  [1] 
    

I work a lot with software platform teams @ IBM and they are absolutely
swamped because of a shrinking workforce. Their technology is a decade behind
and there is no sign of anything improving. When we've engaged their support
team for software and hardware issues, the outsourced engineer barely knows
how to operate in TSO/MVS. It's horrible all around.

[1] <http://www.cringely.com/2012/04/not-your-fathers-IBM/>

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gdg92989
I worked as a software engineer for their CIO division for a little while and
the "2015 Deadline" is something everyone was acutely aware of. In fact when I
left my manager was most concerned that if he didn't fill the spot immediately
he would lose the headcount forever.

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jt2190
This is not about offshoring (although some of the work will go overseas of
course). This is about IBM's customers growing tired of the endless expense
and headaches of dealing with consultant-provided software. Need an upgrade?
Hire a consultant. Need a new feature? Hire a consultant. Need to reconfigure?
Hire a consultant.

Now that corporations have grown more comfortable using Software-as-a-Service
solutions, they're telling companies like IBM to stop billing for consultants
and instead just take over all hosting and maintenance. Obviously IBM should
try and host as efficiently as possible (that is, with as small a staff as
possible) so they'll need to shed consulting labor.

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iends
I don't think this is the whole story.

IBM is aggressively pursuing growth markets. Growth in the USA is more or less
stagnant so they are looking elsewhere to increase revenue.

It doesn't hurt that in many growth countries you can get 2 developers (or
support engineers) for the price of one American developer (or even better).
This allows IBM to provide local services and support for less cost.

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rm999
I just wanted to point out the irony that people are surprised when a company
with 'international' in its name is becoming truly international.

On a more serious note, these developments are obvious to anyone who has
followed IBM in the past few years. IBM has made a huge push to hire outside
the USA, and according to some friends who work there have been content with
attrition in the USA. I don't think outsourcing and offshoring have been
resounding successes for many companies, but it makes sense that a company of
IBM's size can do it right. Ultimately I see globalization as a good thing;
IBM is adding value by making their operation more efficient (and of course
hiring competent people in poorer countries).

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eof
Having lived within miles of this plant for almost a decade; no one is
surprised by this. The vast majority of jobs they offer pay a tiny bit better
than the normal jobs around (which are much, much higher than the average of
the country); but I don't see it as a huge loss, though a loss for sure.

This says quite a bit about VT as well, which is pretty anti-business, as much
as I love Vermont. Personally, I am not surprised by this.. it has been talked
about for years that there are less and less things going on at IBM in VT
these days, and the end is nigh.

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forgotAgain
_This says quite a bit about VT as well..._

I disagree in this instance. This is about a large corporation acting in an
anti-social manner.

In almost a reflexive manner, we've come to blame ourselves or local
government for this type of action but that blame is misplaced. Corporations
have obligations to society the same as individuals do.

~~~
eof
idk, I don't really see any reason that it is better to give vermonters jobs
at 10% above the median wage for the area than chinese people or wherever
these jobs are going. I do think corporations have certain obligations, like
not polluting, following the law, etc... but keeping jobs.. that is a hard one
for me to swallow. I think redundancy in manufacturing is inevitable and good
(in the long run) as everything goes toward automation; I certainly would not
want corporations to be forced to hire people to do what robots can do.

Maybe I am taking a leap here. It is undeniable VT is anti-business (high
taxes, nearly impossible to build, no billboards, high minimum wage) but maybe
this exact same plant would be leaving Florida or Texas as well.

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smackfu
This is a pretty crummy submission. This blog post is from three months ago,
doesn't really say much, and its only source is a Cringley rumor article from
March 2012.

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qompiler
What does the 'I' in IBM stand for?

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gallinaponedora
What about the M? :)

~~~
qompiler
'Merica!

