
China’s State Media Show Hong Kong Protest Images, Fanning Public Anger - La-ang
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-lets-hong-kong-protest-images-circulate-to-whip-up-public-anger-11563793760?mod=rsswn
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CountSessine
It's kind of fascinating how important the defacing of the national insignia
is in the reporting in China.

An authoritarian government like China's has no real mandate - they have no
right to be running the country and no legitimacy that can be claimed. They're
a bunch of men that the army listens to. They have the guns and the power and
that's it. With such a government, symbols and flags are the proxies for
legitimacy. I don't know whether the translation is faithful, but the
vandalism was actually translated to the English word "desecrate". That's some
powerful language for wooden sign.

~~~
underthebus
Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of the
government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the cause.

China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century until
1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of imperial
rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and Communists).

The communist government did manage to rid the country of foreign occupation
and to recover some breakaway provinces.

Hong Kong, lost to the British in the Opium Wars, was a very bitter symbol and
a source of humiliation and most Chinese do credit the current government with
getting it back at last.

This is a real source of legitimacy.

This is why showing the protests may be so potent on Chinese public opinion.

Protesters should be worried because if the Chinese government changes policy
and starts showing these images this can only mean that they plan a more
serious crackdown. Public opinion will demand it.

~~~
hker
> Patriotism and nationalism are strong in China and this is not because of
> the government. In fact the government is an expression of this, not the
> cause.

> China was attacked, invaded, humiliated from the end of the 18th century
> until 1945. This is what created a reaction that led to the collapse of
> imperial rule and to the rise of the modern parties (Nationalists and
> Communists).

For a discussion of the birth of nationalism and patriotism in China, see this
Chinese article [1] by Wai Kin Chung 鍾偉健.

Like anything in social science, nationalism–including the Chinese one–is a
_social construct_. The nationalism of China, in particular the term 中華民族
Zhonghua minzu, was first _coined_ towards the end of the 19th century [1],
and before that China was much more receptive of people of different
ethnicity: in the past dynasties many famous poets and generals were of a
different race. More precisely, Chinese back then didn‘t care much about
differing ethnicities, but they care about differing cultures. The Chinese
nationalism (esp. stressing the humiliation by foreigners) was _socially
constructed_ near the end of the last dynasty (Qing) in China, and clearly
played an important role to its demise, in the way you pointed out.

For comparison, Japan or Germany do not stress their defeat and humiliation by
the Allied power for their nationalism, because their source of legitimacy is
democracy.

[1]: [https://gushi.tw/you-are-also-chinese/](https://gushi.tw/you-are-also-
chinese/)

> (Nationalism) This is a real source of legitimacy.

Exactly, completely agree.

Xi, like his predecessors, is trying to equate the party with the nation
(mostly the Han race) to fuel this modern Chinese nationalism for legitimacy,
and the latest attempt is a revival nationalism called Chinese dream [2]. In
the last decade, a main source of legitimacy for CCP was fast GDP growth, but
this source is drying up quickly due to excess production, unsustainable
credit expansion, and aging population. So Xi is trying to promote another
source of legitimacy for CCP in case the economy is not performing well, again
stressing 中華民族 Zhonghua minzu or effectively the Han race and their
humiliation by foreigners, as you elaborated.

[2]: [https://www.eurasiareview.com/08122018-the-contours-of-
xis-c...](https://www.eurasiareview.com/08122018-the-contours-of-xis-chinese-
nationalism-analysis/)

~~~
444e
after 1976, china lost its legitimacy and began to rely on nationalism to get
support

------
caust1c
It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this is
happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to take
sides in the conflict.

I wonder what happens when the tension comes to a precipice and China sends in
security forces to "maintain the peace". I hope for Hong Kong and the global
economy's sake, it doesn't come to that. Although it seems like that's exactly
what the Chinese state government is gearing up for.

~~~
vkou
> It's pretty surreal watching this conflict play out. I'm still shocked this
> is happening on the international stage and other nations are unwilling to
> take sides in the conflict.

Are you equally shocked that other nations are unwilling to take sides in the
various political conflicts that we've lived through in the past decade in the
United States?

Generally, it's prudent, in the geopolitical arena, for nation states to keep
their noses out of other nations' domestic politics.

~~~
Qworg
I would disagree that our on street political conflicts are at the same level
with internal citizens.

We don't have protests at the same scale, nor organized crime being hired to
beat people.

~~~
mirimir
I presume that you mean the Triads?

> The white-clad activists are suspected to be linked to local organized crime
> gangs known as triads that operate in the villages on Hong Kong’s more
> remote fringes, a Hong Kong Democratic Party official told The Wall Street
> Journal.

I gather that the Triads have had a long and complex relationship with Chinese
governments. Going back centuries. So I think that there's more to it than
hiring criminals. But I'm not clear just what it is.

------
moftz
China is really betting on the media coverage helping the pro-China side. They
control the narrative and the discussion in official channels but that doesn't
mean they control everything. Hong Kong is insular enough that they could
become something like Taiwan, de facto independent. I don't see major
revolution in Beijing happening anytime soon.

~~~
w_s_l
im quite surprised that they would be willing to take such a risky bet. but
after seeing Crimea get a pass from the West, more and more countries with
authoritarian regime have become emboldened further more with the US in
political disarray.

It appears that the leadership's patience has run out and it is nervous that
it will spread to other cities like Wuhan, in which there's currently a
massive protest ongoing.

This almost certainly means elevated levels of violence. They've already
deployed tanks
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y1ezo6m8V8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y1ezo6m8V8))
in Wuhan which means the Hong Kong PLA garrison's APCs will be making a world
media debut soon.

~~~
moftz
Very little news coverage on the Wuhan protests. Maybe it's not as big as it
seems. Although all it takes for a revolution to start is for everyone to
realize that everyone else is not happy with the situation. You can point to
protestors and say "look at how unruly and dangerous these people are" but
that image of protestor being beaten up could just be enough to embolden some
people. If someone out there is willing to get beaten up for their ideals,
those ideals must be pretty important to them.

------
ktln2
Don't underestimate the power of these state media. In China the government
has almost complete control of every single media channels - social media, TV,
radio and even chat apps. They can install whatever they wants into people's
mind and the people won't notice a thing.

~~~
loyukfai
At the same time, I do believe many people know they're being lied to, but few
are able or willing to stand against the system.

Just look at the case of Liu Xiaobo.

------
w_s_l
really worried for hong kong. CCP is shoring up support at home for an
escalation in physical violence.

~~~
loyukfai
The establishment, or its agents, have sent out thugs to threaten the
protesters.

The Hong Kong government thus far has failed to rein in the protests using the
police force.

Situation is still fluid, but the thug thing may backfire. (or may it not)

~~~
w_s_l
I think it has backfired already. The leadership is getting desperate. They
cannot contain the protests and the spirit of Hong Kong.

What did they expect after a long period of democracy and western rule of law
and capital wealth, that hong kongers just roll over peacefully like in
Mainland???!

This critical short sight from the current chinese leadership is incredible!
now it has 2 major international scandals (falun gong organ harvesting and
uighur concentration camps) from which it faces a threat to its powerbase and
its about to get another one if they use excessive force in Hong Kong. but who
knows! they might not give a damn.

~~~
loyukfai
Actually, if the thugs only attacked the protesters, or even journalists, a
lot of people wouldn't have given a damn.

However, they attacked even ordinary citizens in the restricted area of train
stations and even inside the carriages.

[https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1469828-20190722.h...](https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/k2/1469828-20190722.htm)

This afternoon and evening, there were rumors that the thugs would get their
hands dirty again in the western parts of Hong Kong, but so far (3AM now) it
hasn't materialized.

But it's surely instilled terror in people's heart. The streets have become
strikingly empty.

BTW, I'd have quite a few reservations about calling the HK political system a
"democracy". But that's a topic for another day.

------
hart_russell
There's a lot of negative things that can be said about president Trump, but I
for one am glad he's taken economic action against China. It seems like most
Nations have resigned themselves to let China become the preeminent super
power, which is very troubling to me; to let a nation with legitimate
concentration camps, prisoner organ harvesting, and a general lack of moral
compass become the most powerful country in the world is a bad idea to me.

~~~
addicted
TPP was little more than an attempt to get a bunch of countries to stand up to
China. Trump is hardly the first US president to do so.

Arguably, Trump's economic actions and continued threats against the EU has
led to EU countries cooperating with China in ways they refused to before.

~~~
lostlogin
> TPP was little more than an attempt to get a bunch of countries to stand up
> to China.

It seemed more like we were being bullied into allowing US companies to
bulldoze our institutions for their profit, while not giving much in return.

