
Men Get Serious About Work-Life Balance - draugadrotten
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-30/alpha-dads-men-get-serious-about-work-life-balance
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ceautery
"men might actually be better at handling women’s issues than women. They
don’t believe in “balance.” They believe in getting what they want, even if"

What a ridiculous generalization. And calling wishing to care for your family
a women's issue is absurd. I couldn't finish reading the article after that.

An anecdote about work/life balance: I was up for a promotion last year. Also,
my wife wrecked her car last year. When I could have been busting my ass in
the office meeting arbitrary project deadlines, I was leaving the office hours
early to pick my kid up from school, helping my wife negotiate with insurance
companies, driving her to the rental car place, to the repair shop, to another
dealership, etc.

My project fell behind, and a couple of people complained that I wasn't
returning calls fast enough. I lost the promotion. I lost it with a song in my
heart, and I'd do it again in a hot second.

~~~
hobs
Or you could have rented a car?

~~~
jacalata
What do you think they were doing when he was 'driving her to the rental car
place,'?

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kirinan
This resonates with me. Im a software engineer, with a young child (< 1 yr),
and am pretty young myself (23). I've been working full time since I was 18
(juggling college and full time work), and got married fairly young (20).
Because Im young (regardless of home responsibilities) software shops expect
me to work 10+ hour days, and I pretty much have to lay down the law: if you
are interested in any amount of talent that I have (which I have no idea how
much/or little that is), then you are going to have to deal with 8 hours of me
putting in a rigorous amount of work. Do I go heads down for 8 hours most
days? Yes, and I usually feel like I couldn't work another hour after I leave
anyways. However, it gives the appearance that I don't care about my career or
dont care if the company is successful or not. This is the opposite of the
truth, I want to reach my peak as a developer as much as the next guy, and I
always strive to get better. I spend more time than most people on developing
my skills and always try to participate in the community whenever possible. I
think business and life should be separate, and honestly people should also
not judge other people. They don't know their circumstances, nor do they know
what that person wants out of life. You are free to hire who you want, and
think however you want, but in the end its your loss, not mine.

~~~
rjh29
On a related note: I am UK developer working a 40 hour week with 32 days of
holiday a year. I would really like to move to the US and work there, but is
it really the norm to work 10-12 hours a day? Do people actually work solidly
for that time, or is there a lot of slacking? I've become quite accustomed to
a 40 hour work week and have no motivation to do anything longer (if anything,
I'd work less and get paid less). Thanks in advance.

~~~
flyinRyan
The thing that's going to hurt the most is vacation. In the US it's common to
get 1-2 weeks and only _after_ you've already worked a whole year. So that
means working an entire year with zero vacation.

The 4-6 weeks you can get in Europe is extremely rare in the US (where I
worked, I finally got 3 weeks after 7 years of service).

~~~
rjh29
Is it possible to take unpaid vacation? Is that generally looked down upon?

Not sure I can go without 32 days a year, I'd go nuts I think.

~~~
flyinRyan
Depends on the place. In some places, unpaid vacation is a "perk" (I'm not
joking, sadly). In other places it's simply not allowed. I've heard of places
that allow it, though to get it in your first you will probably require
negotiation.

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needacig
"What they illustrate is that men might actually be better at handling women’s
issues than women."

This is a ridiculous statement. Women face a different set of pressures and
stereotypes around working and parenting than men. Those pressures are
starting to become the same for both men and women, but they're not the same
yet, and until then, it's not possible for a man to be better at handling
women's issues without also being a woman and being better at it.

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plg
Anyone at the top of their chosen field of study/work who talks about "work
life balance" is full of shit. If you choose to pursue a work/study goal that
involves being at the top of your field (truly) then you cannot have a full
family/social life. If you choose to have a (truly) rich family/social life
then you will not achieve success at a (truly) top level in your work/study
life. You have to choose. I don't care if you're make or female. You have to
choose. If we're talking about truly top performance it's not a matter of
balance. It's a matter of choice. One or the other. You cannot have (truly)
rich, excellent, full, top performance in both. Anyone who tells you otherwise
is full of shit. Now: if you are ok with semi-success in both then you can
balance but you will not reach the top of your field. You have to be ok with
that.

~~~
null_ptr
I disagree. I think family and social life help rest and heal an intelligent
mind. I think a person that is at the top of their field is there not because
they work 80 hour weeks, but because they have a certain spark in the manner
that they approach their work; an ability to look at things objectively and
from a distance, something that is hard to achieve by obsessively focusing on
a single facet of life.

~~~
plg
That is certainly the story that we so often hear from people at the top of
their field. They say "my family is so important to me, spending time with
them really grounds me" and then in the same breath you find out they leave
for work before their kids wake up, and come home to have dinner with them for
1 hr and then go back to work, and then work all weekend.

A sports analogy is apt here: I have a friend who when he was young used to
play competitive rugby at the national level. He said that through high school
and even varsity (university) teams, what really put people at the top was
their drive, motivation, training, and also of course skill. At the national,
world professional level however, it was different. One needed these
ingredients of course to gain entrance to this level of play ... but once
there, now what really separated the top say 10% from the rest came down to
something rather simple: the extent to which you were willing to injure
yourself. The best players were the ones that were willing to get concussions
over and over again, to perform manoeuvres that resulted in high probability
of broken bones, etc. He ended up quitting because he was not willing to hurt
his body to such an extent that he would pay for it for the rest of his life.
In essence the top players were the ones who were willing to become extreme,
who were willing to sacrifice things most people valued in their life (their
future health) in order to stay at the top.

So it is in business, finance, academia, you name it. The people you will find
at the top are the ones who have made the choice to sacrifice things that most
people find valuable, in order to be the top of the top in their chosen field
of work / study.

Said differently: if you are trying to achieve top success, you will face the
following over and over again: there will be times where you are faced with
the choice: work late into the night and miss your son's birthday party, or go
home and try to catch up in the morning. Take that work trip for a week even
though your wife is sick at home and needs help with the kids, or don't take
the work trip.

There will always be someone else at work who will be willing to do the things
you are unwilling to do.

It's nice to talk about modern and sympathetic work environments that value
well rounded lifestyles but man, it's a jungle out there, this is a fantasy,
when the shit hits the fan.

~~~
null_ptr
> There will always be someone else at work who will be willing to do the
> things you are unwilling to do.

That sounds more like getting to the top of your office or company, rather
than the top of your field. I was thinking about the people that invent and
create liberally, outside the constraints of product deadlines and work
hierarchies. Fantasy indeed :-)

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moconnor
In January I negotiated to reduce my hours to 27.5 a week as part of a
promotion; this lets me drop my two children off at kindergarten and pick them
up again at 3pm after work and let my wife take a full-time job.

Looking after young children for more than just a fun hour in the evening
before bed is _hard work_ \- certainly much more demanding than working full
time ever was.

Working part time is challenging too - nobody is sharing the role, and I find
the hours I am working are much more focused now I know I have a hard stop
every day. When working 40+ hours a week there was always time for another cup
of tea, a short walk or browse on the net. Now, during working hours, I am
_working_.

Last month my wife negotiated a reduction of her hours to 25 per week. This
makes us both a lot more flexible and brings in time for things like having
breakfast together once a week, working on side project or going on week-long
work trips without running into childcare difficulties.

My advice: if you want to try this, you have to negotiate for it. If you don't
try, nobody will offer it to you. Great programmers have an incredible amount
of negotiating leverage, particularly at the moment. Use it or something you
care about.

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throwawayindc
Asking for some emergency personal leave, to help sell my house and salvage my
marriage, just cost me my job. I have worked a lot of long hours, weekends,
etc., over my tenure here. But there are still plenty of tech companies where
work-life balance is not even a thought.

~~~
mikestew
And folks should think long and hard about this before thinking about "not
wanting to let the company down" and the like. Loyalty is too often a one-way
street, and the direction is not from them to you.

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josephlord
At the moment my wife is the primary money earner and I am trying to use the
time while my son is at school to develop apps and do a contract development
for a friend. It would be nice to get to the point where the apps became a
lifestyle business in the sense of supporting our lifestyle but at the moment
it is only profitable if you don't account for my time.

Fortunately we can afford this at the moment and I keep costs very low and do
everything[1] myself which is great for learning but not the best business
strategy.

School days 9am to 3pm don't give long to get in the zone and productive but
with Agee play dates and after school club I can get a bit more done.

Until 2 years ago I was working in what was essentially a business development
role which involved significant travel. It was just about working as my wife's
role was fairly quiet and our son was in nursery (8-6 although we didn't use
the full period most days). We couldn't have continued this when my wife's
role became busier and less flexible.

[1] Design, development, website, accounting, cloud server admin.

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gordaco
I'm a little annoyed that "Work-life balance" almost always refers to "Work-
family balance". Not everyone has children, or, more exactly, not having
children does not mark you as "one of these guys who CAN work 14 hours". You
know, I want work-life balance because I want to do things not related to my
job for about 8 hours a day.

~~~
showsover
Same here.

Sometimes I feel like I can't complain about working longer because I don't
have any kids or wife to care for. I do have a fiancée, but that seems to
count less, because we're both young.

I'd really like to get to working 10-hour days 4 days a week, but I don't feel
like I have any leverage.

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gamblor956
_This already happens in accounting and consulting firms right now_. Indeed,
each one of the Big 4 and the Next 8 have "flex time" policies that in theory
allow employees to manage their own schedules.

However, partners have significant autonomy over how they run their teams. If
you're lucky, you get a partner who is like the partner in this article and
actually lets you employ your firm's flex-time scheduling without harming your
career. If you're not, you get a partner who cares more about year-end revenue
figures than work-life balance. The latter is by far the more common scenario.

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dchmiel
I always thought of striving for balance as the wrong goal and that
flexibility should be it.

Why not give workers flexibility to work when they are productive on work
tasks and flexibility to focus on family when that is the most productive
outcome. This could alleviate a lot of pressure that everyone feels with the
need to balance work and life. What are we trying to balance? 3 hours a night
with kids every night for 18 years doesn't mean you balanced your life.

Some people may want to drive their kid to school and then go into work
focused. Then chooses to work out and take time to eat a healthy lunch and
then work some more and then picks their kids up from school. Stay with them
at home till the other spouse comes home and then switches into work mode
while the kids are being fed and washed by the other spouse. Read to them a
bedtime story and tuck them into bed before some more highly focused time to
work again before going to bed at a time they find reasonable sounds good to
some people.

Not all people but some. We just need the flexibility to choose to work when
we're most productive and when don't feel guilty being away from the kids. How
many here like wake up late but work late into the night boarding on the next
morning, while others are up so early its still night for others?

We're not identical cogs as much as our education system and society, based
upon the needs of the industrial revolution, tried to produce. Give people
choice and you'll be rewarded with healthier, well adjusted and productive
employees and families.

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7Figures2Commas
Flexible schedule != work/life balance.

If you're out of the office by 3:30, but still available by email and willing
to work "well into the evening", your work _is_ your life. Pretending that you
have some sort of "balance" simply because you're not chained to a desk in an
office is pure naiveté.

~~~
Vekz
Also be wary of companies passively pitching work/life balance as a culture
point.

I spent time at a company that superficially was very 'work/life balance'.
When pressed on the specifics of what that ment to them regarding hours on
call and in office They responded with a "We're talking more or a 'work/life
harmony'" which ment your work should be your life.

~~~
VLM
This is psychologically the same as the classic "Our execs might exclusively
be old white men, but we do have mandatory diversity training for the front
line grunts, so its all good".

Another one you often see is loud trumpeting about training budgets, which
happen to be 100% allocated by mandatory safety classes and such. "But we
won't discipline you, if you read a book you paid for, on your own time, if it
doesn't interfere with your work."

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partner30
I made partner at a Big 4 before I turned 30. There is no way in hell that I
could have done that if I had a family.

Was it worth it? Highly debatable. I've also since suffered a whole host of
illnesses likely brought on by the almost constant 12-14hr days. But as a
couple people have mentioned, if you want to get somewhere, you will have to
give something else up.

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bobwaycott
> _The only thing missing is the guilt and self-flagellation, which, if they
> were women, would be accumulating on the floor in puddles around their
> feet._

Seriously?! What kind of editor allows such gendered bullshit to make it into
an article like this?

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knodi
"Men Get Serious About Work-Life Balance"

When the government fixes income inequality gap, then I will. I don't work
hard because like to I work hard because I have to.

