
I went to help at Calais’s Jungle refugee camp – and what I saw haunts me - nsns
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/10/calais-jungle-refugee-camp-volunteer-conditions
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klunger
This article skirts around the critical point that these are not actually
refugees. They may have started their journey as a refugee, escaping some
horrific conditions in their home country.

But then, they traveled through many European safe countries where they could
(legally, should) have applied for asylum. And yet, they deliberately chose
not to for whatever reason. Now that they are in Calais, they choose to stay
there instead of applying for asylum in France. A refugee has no choice but to
flee from where they are. These folk have had a choice for as long as their
journey, and continue to do so as long as they are in France.

Side note: I do volunteer work for Syrian refugee children. There is a serious
refugee problem in Europe, but this is not one of them. The UN quite rightly
does not spend its limited resources here.

~~~
ptaffs
Your response sounds super unsympathetic, but your side note hints at some
actual understanding of the situation. Briefly, what should be happening?

~~~
klunger
Obviously, I do not want people starve or freeze to death. I guess I should
have made that more clear?

But, the term refugee has a very particular meaning and comes with a
particular set of rights, re:the UN. See:
[http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c125.html](http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c125.html)

I have no expertise in policy-level decisions, my volunteer work is on a very
local level. I do not know what should happen.

~~~
austinjp
The French and UK governments are notoriously keen to bat this political ball
aggressively back and forth. Any special agreement between them to cope with
this specific situation will likely take months of negotiation.

Add to this that the UK government is posturing over seceding from both Europe
and European Human Rights, and it adds up to a sorry situation.

Out of curiosity, what are the "obligations" on these asylum seekers? Should
they seek asylum in the first country they can? Why are they not at liberty to
travel as far as they are permitted? I thought in fact that this was
encouraged by some nations, perhaps making them pawns in national border
politics. Their situation feels like "kettling", with The Channel blocking
further movement.

Also, what proportion of people fleeing Syria seek asylum in which nations? Is
there really a preponderance of them at the French/UK border?

~~~
nordify
> Out of curiosity, what are the "obligations" on these asylum seekers?

By law, asylum seekers are obligated to register in the first EU country they
arrive. Failing to do so results in illegal entry and/or stay and is grounds
for deportation.

That's what the law says. Whether it's morally right or wrong is another
matter.

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yodsanklai
I recently read an interesting comment on politics.stackexchange.com that
gives some insight about this situation.

[http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/8460/why-is-
the-...](http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/8460/why-is-the-drive-
for-undocumented-migration-so-strong-between-france-and-the-uni)

~~~
mturmon
Thanks. Actually some solid info there.

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lumberjack
It's not a refugee camp. Refugees go through the system fairly quickly and get
all sorts of help. They definitely are not left destitute.

And I really don't see what's so special about them compared to people in
similar conditions in India or Uganda or some other poor region of the world.

~~~
w0utert
>> _And I really don 't see what's so special about them compared to people in
similar conditions in India or Uganda or some other poor region of the world._

Or in developed parts of the world, for that matter. People are living on the
streets sleeping under cardboard boxes or in the bushes in almost any major
city in almost any developed nation, eating whatever they find in trashcans,
with no access to healthcare or sanitation either.

Note that I'm not trying to downplay the misery the immigrants in Calais are
in, or the terrible things they've endured. It just strikes me as odd that
whenever some humanitary crisis occurs that attracts a lot of media attention,
they forget about the misery they can find at home every day...

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amateur_soclgst
I think a distinct problem with the most recent flow of migrants into Europe
is the idea of 'reliability' and how that effects feelings towards a migrant
population.

In many previous migration movements in both Europe and the United States
there was some rateable factor between the native population and the migrants.
For example, people coming to the US from Cuba were seen as escaping communism
for democracy and were seen as good. Similarly with Vietnamese immigrants for
example. In Europe the same thing happened after 1991.

Conversely now, other than the fact that the migrants are of a different skin
color and religious make up than the majority of Europeans, society does not
have the same sympathetic view as compared to the past. There were not Cuban
or Vietnamese terrorist strikes on American or European soil, and thus the new
migrant wave is seen as a risk.

Also given that that fact that we are still at 'war' with the middle east
doesn't lend any help. It is easier for a society to forgive a
nation/ethnicity that they've been fighting after said nation has won than
while they're still in conflict.

Overall I think the situation is very complex, and theres not a easy way to
make Europe accept this wave of migration in comparison to similar waves in
the past.

~~~
mercer
I agree and it scares the crap out of me to think about what might happen in
the coming years.

Mostly I'm trying to think of the best course of action for _me_ as an
individual. Not doing anything seems like the worst option. But when it comes
to doing something, should I:

1\. actively fight right-wing sentiment, with probably little effect (mostly
preaching to the choir, as most of my friends are highly-educated left-wing
liberals). 2\. volunteer in a refugee camp, which while personally more
satisfying, might waste more 'valuable' things I could do. 3\. become
politically active in some way, but this would require a significant up-front
effort in trying to untangle the situation. 4\. try to find longer-term
sustainable solutions for refugees who are likely to be here for a long time
no matter what happens, faced with few good options (they can't work, can't
study, and are often isolated). 5\. something else?

I'm currently a bit paralyzed by the possible options, yet for various reasons
feel a strong desire to contribute to the problem, perceived or otherwise, of
the influx refugees. I'd greatly appreciate some concrete suggestions.

~~~
nova
> 5\. something else?

0\. Stop the dogmatic multi-culti cult, accept human nature (= we prefer to
live with our kind) and strive for a world in which every race and religious
group is able to live peacefully and prosper, in its OWN LAND, with its own
way of life.

And that includes Europe.

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seivan
Did I miss the part between the infighting amongst refugees of various
religions/groups? That's a ticking time bomb ready to happen. Talk to the
refugees in Calais (and other places to) and you'll hear the same notion.

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zoner
When the Hungarian revolution of 1956 against communism was knocked down, I
didn't hear the refugees smashed truck windows, left tons of rubbish after
themselves in foreign countries, neither attacked each other or raped women.

Sorry for the exception, I really hate when people starve or cold. I know
there are good people there, kids and women as well, but their culture is just
not fit in to Europe.

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transfire
Summary of comments before this one: Who gives a shit, it's their own damn
fault.

