
Vikings – Libre-friendly data center - fnoobor
http://goteo.cc/vikings
======
AdmiralAsshat
_We will build a state-of-the-art data center that will cover all your hosting
needs; based on fully libre[1] software, libre boot firmware and performant
libre-friendly hardware. We will always respect your freedoms and your privacy
- we don 't spy on you._

 _\- based on 100% libre software and libre-friendly hardware with Libreboot,
including our front- and back-ends_

So if you're limited to Libreboot, the last set of Intel processors you can
support came out in, what? 2009? 2010? Cross referencing the list of
"supported" systems[0] with some general googling for their release dates[1],
2010 seems to be it, unless their data center is gonna run on a rack of
Macbook 2's and Chromebook C201's.

Either way, it's hardly "state of the art" hardware by any stretch. Maybe
they'll go with some custom RISC processors?

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libreboot#Supported_systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libreboot#Supported_systems)

[1][https://www.techpowerup.com/119540/asus-releases-
kgpe-d16-so...](https://www.techpowerup.com/119540/asus-releases-
kgpe-d16-socket-g34-motherboard-for-12-core-amd-opteron-processors)

~~~
verbify
Yup, was about to write that. A bit more information:

They're planning to run a Asus KGPE-D16 AMD motherboard. This is a 2009
motherboard.

From Libreboots website:

> Libreboot has support for fam15h AMD hardware (~2012 gen) and some older
> Intel platforms (~2006-2009 gen).

> It is extremely unlikely that any post-2008 Intel hardware will ever be
> supported in libreboot

> It is extremely unlikely that any post-2013 AMD hardware will ever be
> supported in libreboot

[https://libreboot.org/faq/](https://libreboot.org/faq/)

This project has no legs.

~~~
fnoobor
We've chosen the D16 because it is available now - with free/libre boot
firmware, without binary blobs. The systems are very performant, despite their
"age" (the CPUs we use were released 4 years ago (6284 SE), a system can have
up to 32 CPU cores with 2.7GHz).

So from the performance perspective, systems based on the D16 are still able
to compete with other, newer systems. From the "respecting your
freedoms"-perspective, the D16 is unsurpassed AFAIK.

These systems are in fact a practical solution for free/libre software
idealists and people who don't want to live in an Orwellian society.

That being said, relying only on this hardware would be foolish indeed. Not
only because it will become too expensive to run at some point, like any
hardware that gets older, but also because x86 seems to be a dead-end because
it's becoming more and more locked-up.

We're planning to use openPOWER systems in the near future and move away from
x86, to provide the best services for people who care about their freedom.

More will be revealed in campaign updates, we've just started the campaign and
there will be campaign updates over the next 39 days that _will_ interest you.

PS: This project has wings instead.

------
jstoja
It raises a lot of questions, like... a ton. 1\. Really libre until what? Do
you have ANY Libre DataCenterInfrastructureManagement/BuildingManagementSystem
that can really be used in production? What about the
Chillers/UPS/CRAC/GENsets/... What about the design of the DataCenter ? The
access system, badging system, ...? 2\. What about networking devices? 3\.
They provide VPNs/... but what about ISPs/...? 4\. If it's they're 1st DC,
what about the quality of the designs? The redundancy? ...

> What could go wrong? Everything. From the beginning with how you choose your
> chillers (a bad choice could easily double your PowerUsageEffectiveness), to
> the future with how you operate it.

Nonetheless, I find the initiative awesome and I wish you a huge luck and I
really hope they'll succeed! The intention is clearly laudable.

P.S.: I work at Etix Everywhere (www.etixeverywhere.com) a company designing,
building and operating modular DataCenters around the globe. We're recruiting
a lot so don't hesitate to take a look, and help us to build data centers
really everywhere!

~~~
walrus
_> Do you have ANY Libre
DataCenterInfrastructureManagement/BuildingManagementSystem that can really be
used in production?_

An open source DCIM that's used in production:
[https://github.com/digitalocean/netbox](https://github.com/digitalocean/netbox)

~~~
jstoja
Indeed, totally forgot this one. And for the BMS? Monitoring the power
consumption, temperatures ...

~~~
walrus
I'm not aware of an open source BMS, sorry. Just wanted to put that out there
in case anyone reading the thread was looking for an open source DCIM.

------
jmnicolas
> "Since the Summer of Snowden what we have feared had become true: almost all
> modern hardware platforms used for hosting contain potential backdoors or
> exploitable bugs. Vikings plans to change that."

You won't change that with Libre Software : as long as your mobile / computer
/ server is connected to the internet it is hackable no matter what. Libre
Software is not exempt of exploitable bugs, there's a lot of non libre parts
in hardware etc and someone from the team could be subverted to insert a
backdoor.

Basically they're bringing wooden shields to the fight when the NSA is
shooting enriched uranium shells from Big Bertha !

Their goal is noble but they shouldn't let people believe that their data will
be totally secure on these servers.

~~~
legulere
I think this axiom is pretty common in the Free Software field: Free Software
tackles exactly the issues that are important

So when something is deemed an important issue, by the axiom it is solved
through free software.

In reality most issues are orthogonal to licensing (using a cloud or not,
encryption, ...) and in some classical free software performs arguably even
worse (usability)

------
mike-cardwell
"An eco-friendly data center that is based on 100% on libre software and runs
libre-friendly hardware" \- Does that include switches and routers? What about
the UPS's?

~~~
Tharkun
This appears to be addressed on the linked page. Along with a desire to use
flywheel UPS instead of lead acid.

------
confounded
I think this project is fantastic, and I'll be making a small contribution.

Intel having a backdoor to cloud servers in the current climate seems like a
situation worth working to amerliorate. Best of luck!

~~~
lwhalen
Intel has a back-door to cloud servers? I hadn't heard about that. Got a link?

~~~
fnoobor
[https://libreboot.org/faq/#intelme](https://libreboot.org/faq/#intelme)

------
LordWinstanley
File under "Yet another clickbait heading for something that doesn't actually
exist"

~~~
fnoobor
Let's hope you're wrong about that and libre computing finds its way into the
data center! By the way, we do exist.

~~~
LordWinstanley
Don't be disingenuous. It's a crowd-funding campaign. Not an actual product I
can buy now. I'm so sick of clicking on headlines on HN which sound like
they're describing some interesting product or service, only to be taken to
the virtual begging bowl of a crowd-funding page.

~~~
fnoobor
If you don't find our product interesting, well, that's really our problem.
I'm here to have valid arguments, potentially to convince you of the contrary,
I'm not here to get attacked for no valid/obvious reason.

I'm still open to have a conversation like normal human beings usually have,
so if you have questions related to our crowdfunding campaign, please ask.

Vikings exists to further libre software, libre-friendly hardware and improve
the existing, locked-up "hosting industry" that often works against their own
users and at the very least don't care for their privacy.

------
geff82
Main question: where would it be based?

~~~
mike-cardwell
They don't specify. They say that the location hasn't been decided, but don't
give a list of options or anything.

Yeah. I'll hang on to my money thanks.

