
Ask HN: Can you help me understand why I am so tired? - JustTired
I have been working the same job as a Linux systems admin for about 5 years now. It&#x27;s time for a move due to company politics and to move I need to study and get in gear.<p>The problem is even if I sleep 8-9 hours a night I find that I get very drowsy at work. I usually drink coffee in the morning and tea in the evening.  Maybe 600-900mg of caffeine a day.<p>I didn&#x27;t always feel so tired at work but I do now.<p>After work I tend to come home and go back on the computer to catch up on non work things.  I&#x27;m a hobbyist and the computer is what I like. But even here I still get quite tired. I do tend to feel pretty drained when I get home.  Such as now after my day my eyes are droopy and stuff and I didn&#x27;t even do all that much since it was a Friday.<p>I usually tend to not sleep a lot but have tried to sleep more on a few nights to see if it helps. I feel better in the morning and for most of the day but the tiredness comes.<p>On the weekend when I get on the computer after some time I again get pretty tired. It&#x27;s so cold out I can&#x27;t do much outside.<p>I don&#x27;t know if I really now just no longer like computers or I am literally exhausted of computers and never give myself a break. I am almost always interacting with one.  Even my away from computer time before bed is sent reading on a kindle which is a computer.<p>Does anybody have any ideas?<p>I have some great opportunities coming up that I need to study for but I am just so shot.
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BSousa
As others said, see a doctor, exercise, diet, etc.

But what made my eyes pop was the amount of caffeine. 600-900mg is way too
much and pretty sure it is affecting your sleep. First result from google [1]
gives an upper limit of 400mg per day. Try not to drink any coffee/tea/colas
after 2pm (or whatever makes sense for the time you go to bed) and cut the
amount in total. 400mg is still about 4 coffees.

[1] [http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-
healt...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-
eating/in-depth/caffeine/art-20045678)

~~~
sheepmullet
600-900mg of caffeine is the equivalent of 6-9 cups of coffee or 7-11 red bull
energy drinks.

Like you said that is way too much.

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Detrus
I'm guessing you don't exercise and are in terrible shape and over 25? As you
age, the body loses muscle and muscle plays an important part in making you
feel right by regulating hormones like insulin etc.

If you spend your life indoors you most certainly have vitamin-D deficiency,
which leads to testosterone deficiency, which quickens muscle loss.

Sedentary work without other activities is a recipe for feeling terrible,
don't be surprised.

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delbel
For me, I gained some weight recently and got a mild case of sleep apnea. I
discovered it using an android app to monitor my snoring. It was devastating
hearing myself gasp for air at night! Sleeping on my side help reduce my
snoring, that combined with quitting drinking and smoking, just a little bit
of exercises, and a good diet reinvigorated my energy. I now get up naturally
without an alarm clock around 6am to 7am, where before I'd sleep in til 10am
and still be tired all day. I also eliminated coffee but only because it was a
trigger for smoking and I'd like to go back to it some day. Of course talk to
your doctor, but I was able to get well and avoid a doctors appointment. I
knew he was just going to tell me to lose weight, quit drinking and smoking
anyway. Who knew that could be so good for me, right? :)

~~~
atsaloli
Great job! What app?

~~~
christop
I haven't really used the noise tracking/snore detection stuff, but I've been
using Sleep as Android for a few years:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid.sleep)

------
logn
Caffeine's effects on iron absorption:
[http://www.livestrong.com/article/427404-caffeines-effect-
on...](http://www.livestrong.com/article/427404-caffeines-effect-on-iron-
absorption/)

Effects of iron deficiency: [http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-
topics/topics/ida/sig...](http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-
topics/topics/ida/signs)

Also keep in mind that iodine and vitamin D are easy to be deficient in
depending on what you're eating. But I have no idea if that is associated with
what you're experiencing. Ask a health care person, someone who will do more
than treat symptoms too.

------
saluki
When you're feeling tired try going for a short walk or running an errand (if
you can get away). I find a quick walk or running an errand, especially if
it's cold out picks me up from feeling tired.

Try taking a full day off from devices on a weekend day or maybe both days.
Pick up some hobbies with less screen time.

When you are on the screen try to limit the time you have so maybe give
yourself a half hour to get X complete and work against a timer. If you're
doing interesting work usually you're excited to keep going/make progress. I
use the pomadoro technique (work 25 min/5 min break) and sometimes if I'm
making progress I just keep going through the breaks.

Also coding all day and most of the night is probably too much. Typically you
only have X hours of productivity per day so if you exceed that you will feel
tired sluggish and want to give up. So maybe code in smaller sprints to make
the most of your time.

There are plenty of evenings I'd like to code more or do a tutorial, but I'm
out of cognitive energy and just don't have anything left.

I would try coding less, making the most of the time you allow yourself on
screen time. Exercise more, take breaks, get out in the cold, try a shower to
wake up and see how that goes.

------
mylocalgood
Id just say after juggling family, new startup incubation and day job &
surviving this, here are some takeaways:

1\. Stay Really Hydrated. A lot of tiredness is thirst and muscles being sore
from not having enough water. A good way to determine this is to do about 30
jumping jacks next to your desk and about 20 high-knees (I Kid you not). If
your muscles burn, you havent had enough water and that probably also led to
sleep problems.

2\. Take power naps which remove mental stress. Here's a technique: Start
counting down from 100 very slowly. After each number, repeat to yourself
quietly SLOW DOWN. Dont say "RELAX" or "I NEED TO SLEEP" or any of that crap.
Just say SLOW DOWN. All the brain needs to do is to slow down.

3\. Cut out the caffeine and Start EXERCISING. Download the "7 minute workout"
app on Android. Its a great uncomfortable routine which'll have your heart
pumping in 7 minutes. You'll suddenly feel hungrier about 30 min after this
and itll get the habit started

4\. Increase circulation at home - stale air is tiring

5\. Eat the right food. Also have an Organic protein supplement (like Orgain)
from Costco.

This worked for me.

~~~
jf22
>1\. Stay Really Hydrated. A lot of tiredness is thirst and muscles being sore
from not having enough water. A good way to determine this is to do about 30
jumping jacks next to your desk and about 20 high-knees (I Kid you not). If
your muscles burn, you havent had enough water and that probably also led to
sleep problems.

Nonsense. Complete nonsense.

~~~
mylocalgood
@jf22, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm telling you what worked for me.

------
4ydx
I think you should consult with a doctor as people have said.

You should also consider trying something that breaks your current schedule
because it isn't working for you. Every year I try something new. This year I
have been going to sleep before 10pm and get up at 6:30am. This has been a
sort of revelation for me in terms of feeling better throughout the day, but
it might not work for you.

It sounds job related to me. You should force yourself to get up for more
frequent drinks of water/walks around the office and, whether you want to or
not, you should probably stop using a computer in the evenings perhaps a few
days per week. See what that does for your mood. If you do this for 3 or 4
weeks and nothing really changes, then you can explore other reasons for your
exhaustion.

My routine requires me to walk about an hour a day and I exercise once a week
(not hardcore by any means). That might help as well.

Anyway I can relate. I often feel that way but I think it is due to work
pressure.

------
chuinard
Have you considered seasonal affective disorder?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder)

You mentioned the cold. I find my energy levels are a lot lower when there is
less sunlight.

~~~
corin_
You can get lightboxes to have at your desk to help counter this - my mother
has one and finds it helpful, though I haven't used them myself.

------
Lolecule
I've suffered from something very similar, other people have advised getting
some exercise and you should definitely do that, I've found it helps.

You mention that you don't sleep very much and tried to sleep more for a few
nights, try to continue that for a couple of weeks and see how you feel.

Something that often isn't mentioned with respect to sleep is consistency, go
to bed at the same time and get up at the same time, every day - even on
weekends. I personally struggle a lot with this one, but it has helped me a
lot when I adhere to it. Even when I don't manage to go to bed at the same
time on the weekend, I make sure I'm at most an hour late.

Good luck!

------
vldx
Cut caffeine. You may feel strong withdraw, but it sounds like you've burned
your adrenals.

Don't force yourself exercising, the energy you'll have by fixing your
diet/nutrition will force you by itself.

Sleep -> nutrition -> excercise -> habbits. In this order, the one enforces
the other and you'll build momentum which enfiorces even more this positive
loop.

\- cut carbs (try keto?), grains, wheat and processed foods

\- melatonin 1-3 mg one hour before bed

\- vitamin d up to 10k UI

\- omega 3

\- magnesium 400-800 mg

Basically, you'll reduce inflamation (do you feel depressed?) fixing any
chronic fatigue.

The other will come by itself, just experiment and iterate.

------
akulbe
You might also consider getting a sleep study. If you "sleep" 8-9 hours a
night, and aren't rested, it's possible you're not getting good sleep, and
have sleep apnea.

~~~
JustTired
Yeah I was just reading about them. See when I go and read about sleep studies
and stuff I wake up and I am not tired anymore.

------
DanBC
Do you snore? You may be having some sleep apnea.

It might be thyroid.

It might be some mood disorder.

I'm (obviously) not a doctor and you should probably see one. This is the kind
of thing that they're happy to see people about.

------
ScottBurson
Sounds like you should find some way to get some exercise.

A visit to a doctor may also be in order. What you describe sounds to me
(IANAD) outside the range of normal tiredness.

~~~
JustTired
Thanks. Exercise sounds like it could help.

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CyberFonic
Like many others have suggested see a doctor ASAP.

Based on what you've written, it would appear that you don't get much exercise
and might be overweight and eating too many processed foods, carbs, etc.

I've been a similar situation and the diagnosis was pre-diabetes due to poor
eating habits, lack of exercise ... and depression. Depression is a real
disease - not just a mental state.

There's far more to life than technology. Take up a sport or some outdoor
activity. Enjoy the fresh air and company of others.

------
ArekDymalski
You should definitely consult a doctor, just to exclude all the possible
physiological reasons, for example diabetes.

After that you can consider psychological mechanisms, for example a defense
reaction against forthcoming job change and it's requirements (learning new
things). It sounds like a stressful situation and your reaction is quite
common among people in similar situations. So it's absolutely ok to seek
professional help, instead of trying to find a solution on your own.

------
philip1209
Something you can begin tomorrow - start exercising. Honestly do anything
active. Running, martial arts, crossfit, ultimate frisbee, etc. - it will make
you more energetic.

------
zxexz
I have experienced/do experience more or less the same problem you describe. I
find forcing my self to go for a brisk, short (4-6k) walk in the morning after
I wake up and several times throughout the day when I start getting tired
helps.

A more recent thing I've been trying is taking (ar)modafinil 50mg 2x a day
(7am and 11am). It has been working wonders for me for the past month, taken
3x a week (every other day [mon, wed, fri]).

------
cafard
As people have said, eliminate the obvious first--see a physician. I have held
a couple of jobs where I found it difficult to stay awake after lunch.
Eventually I understood that this must mean it was time to move on. You may be
burned out not on computers but on your particular job.

~~~
jqm
IMHOP I'd eliminate the 6-900 milligrams of caffeine and get a little exercise
before I want to the doctor to find out what's wrong. It's kind of like
driving your car with a flat tire and then calling a mechanic to find out why
it's going so slow.

------
Vadoff
I'm going to say keep drinking caffeine, but not more than what you already
consume.

Exercise. Aerobic > anaerobic.

Take breaks from the computer every now and then for long periods of time,
perhaps on the weekend.

Change up your routine.

Make sure you have a good bed, good sleeping posture, and that you aren't
interrupted while sleeping.

------
arjn
Something like this happened to me last year. I used to feel tired, almost
constantly. My doctor eventually recommended a full screen blood test which
showed my Vitamin-D level to be severely deficient and testosterone was on the
low end.

Get yourself checked, and soon.

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tonymillion
Afternoon tiredness could be a sign of low testosterone(assuming you are a
man). I am know two people who have been diagnosed like this and that was a
common symptom.

Of course it would be better to see a doctor then to ask a bunch of nerds on
hacker news.

------
georgebarnett
In addition to needing a break, you may also have a mineral or vitamin
deficiency (for example, B12). Most are easy to find if you head over and get
a bunch of blood tests from your doc which will help turn up anything missing.

------
seekingcharlie
* Exercise more * Don't drink caffeine after 4pm - try peppermint/herbal teas * Stop looking at all screens an hour before bed * Go to sleep & wake up at the exact same time every day/night

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mayi12345
you may consider the following:

1\. once you wake up, try to get out of your bed and do not snooze your clock.

2\. figure out your sleep cycle. don't wake yourself up in deep sleeping.

3\. make yourself sweat (aka exercise) especially after long hours of work.
then have protein powder.

4\. give yourself a 1-week vacation which you do not drink coffee at all. you
are likely feel that the 1st coffee after your vacation is like a needle
poking your face.

5\. see a doctor (but honestly they might not know why) however you should get
your blood tested and you may find out why you are so tired. maybe it is your
nitrition.

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arh68
To rule out B12, take some B12. If you can, avoid the generic cyanoco- type,
get the _methyl_ cobalamin. You can just put it under your tongue.

~~~
saganus
Why avoid it? The only type I've ever seen is the cyanocobalamin and similar.

What's the difference between the two?

~~~
arh68
Oh it's certainly better than none, I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't take
it. Take B12 any way you can. It just didn't have the same kick. Just
anecdotally, I have found the methyl- much stronger, like 1 cup coffee vs 1
can soda. You only have to try it once to see if you can tell.

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benzesandbetter
Fatigue is a symptom for which there are myriad causes.

Find a good doctor or naturopath and get professional support.

Absent of that you're just guessing.

------
zomg
How much water do you drink during the day and how much do you exercise? What
are your eating habits? Do you drink alcohol?

------
plikan13
My guess, and of course this can be no more than a guess, is that you are
depressed because of loneliness.

