
Hey Firefox - Let Us Pick Our Own Search Engine - johns
http://searchengineland.com/080606-103041.php
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sjs382
The main issue with IE using MSN (or whatever it's called now) as their
default home page or search engine is not a moral issue, it is an antitrust
issue. Microsoft's IE has a monopoly (at least until recently and maybe
still), and they are leveraging the browser monopoly to give them an advantage
in another industry (Search).

Mozilla has no monopoly, and thus their use of (a sponsored) Google search box
is not anticompetitive.

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sjs382
And one more thing.... You're free to create a fork of Firefox that uses Yahoo
by default or whatever your heart desires.

Just don't call it Firefox. Haha

~~~
DenisM
And if you don't like IE or windows, go write your own IE and/or windows.

See? This sort of logic cuts both ways.

~~~
rory096
Not exactly. Creating a fork is much different from writing one's own Firefox-
it's just copying code and changing the default browser bit, not writing an
entire web browser that's exactly the same.

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shawndrost
"Let the user make the initial search choice" -- Yes, I love install steps
that abstractly please software theorists and confuse or irritate all others.

~~~
josefresco
Providing a choice does not create confusion if the interface is designed
correctly.

~~~
rory096
Yes it does. You'd be shocked at how fast I've seen some people complain that
IE was easier when they get the import favorites dialog during FF
installation. They don't even bother to read it and see if it's easy, they
just see it requires work and want to go back to whatever they were using
before.

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andreyf
I think it's easy to justify only including the top two search engines, or at
least the search engines with >10% market share (1), for the sake of keeping
the choices uncluttered.

By this article's logic, should they also include barnesandnoble.com, since
they include amazon, and ubid.com since they include ebay?

1\. <http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=2156451>

~~~
josefresco
Ever consider that te FF default search choice contributes to those nifty
Neilson ratings?

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jonknee
Since it funds the development of FireFox, I don't really care. I wasn't going
to use Live.com anyway.

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mynameishere
_pick their own default_

Not possible.

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josefresco
I'm going to have to say I agree with the author, Mozilla should take the
moral high ground here and not default to Google but ask the user during
install or the first time they use the search box.

Not including Live.com seems somewhat petty on their part (or greedy if they
have deals with Y! too)

~~~
simonw
Mozilla make tens of millions of dollars out of that Google search box every
year. That's some expensive moral high ground you're asking for there!

~~~
DenisM
That's why it's called "moral high ground" instead of "most profitable way to
sell out".

~~~
simonw
Philosophical question: would it be moral for Mozilla to cancel that deal and
then have to lay off half of their staff?

~~~
dannysullivan
Look, Google can easily say they like Mozilla, want to fund it with a $100
million per year and that they want to back their stated goal of protecting
user choice by saying they do NOT want to be the default but rather one of
several choices that a user actively selects from. Mozilla wins, Google wins,
users win. But bottom line, if Google is for choice in IE, then it should be
for choice everywhere.

~~~
josefresco
Great comment, except Google and Mozilla are too busy counting their millions
to care.

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devicenull
I'm not sure I see the problem here.. click the Google icon, choose manage
search engines, then "Get More".. Sure it's a few extra steps, but it's not
like the browser forces you to use google.

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imgabe
This is ridiculous. It's like complaining that all of the vending machines you
see are Coke or Pepsi and not RC Cola.

Microsoft is not short of cash. If they wanted to pay Mozilla more money than
Google is in order to have Live search be the default browser, they probably
could. The reason they don't is that it would be a waste of money. The vast
majority of Firefox users would just change it to Google the first time they
used it anyway.

If you want something that has a tiny market share compared to other products
in its field, you have to go out of your way a little to get it. This is true
with every other product. Why should search engines be an exception?

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axod
The default search engine for the internet is google. I'd say firefox is just
reflecting that and giving most of the users what they want in the easiest
way. Of course I'm sure the money is nice also ;)

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MaysonL
Given that Microsoft <em>competes</em> with Mozilla, as well as almost
everything Mozilla stands for, why in hell should Mozilla give them free
advertising?

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cbryan
As much as choice is a good thing, I don't think that the default should
change from being Google. Mozilla gets a huge amount of money from Google for
directing searches there. The money they make by doing this lets this great
open source browser keep making headway.

[http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/23/google-continues-to-
ban...](http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/23/google-continues-to-bankroll-
mozilla/)

If you want a default search other than Google, you can certainly change it.
Just a quick trip to about:config.

[http://www.firefoxfacts.com/2008/01/13/change-default-
search...](http://www.firefoxfacts.com/2008/01/13/change-default-search-in-
firefox/)

~~~
josefresco
Why don't they go the full distance and build their own Amazon affiliate ID
into Amazon searches? I'm sure that will help fund their open source browser
project even better.

/sarcasm

~~~
andreyf
Why sarcasm? Who is anyone to tell an OSS project how to raise money with the
software they are giving away free?

~~~
josefresco
I am, it's deceptive and goes against the moral high ground Open Source
projects typically take. Call me old fashion but I see an issue with back room
deals to generate profit that aren't explicitly outlined to the user.

I'd prefer a situation where FF asks you on install which charitable
foundation you'd like to donate to, which would then assign the appropriate
'id' to the search box that would effect Google/Yahoo/MS and Amazon searches.

~~~
andreyf
Hm, I like the idea of OSS projects being non-profit, which is what you seem
to be expecting. On that note, I also like the idea of everyone working not
for profit, but for the betterment of humanity - pushing us faster to wherever
our collective progress brings us. And if I were to ever head a religion,
that's definitely what I would preach, but until then, using a browser which
defaults to the search engine that makes them the most money isn't too much of
a moral dilemma for me.

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swombat
<https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4610>

If you want Live.com, you can have live.com.

Not sure why you'd want to, though.

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Goronmon
Not sure how it works in older versions, but in Firefox 3 RC2, the search
engine you choose seems to persist across instances of the browser. So select
Yahoo once and it stays Yahoo (unless that resets on a system restart).

There is a link to adding search engines on the Manage Search Engines window
that pops up.

I'm not sure why complicating the install process with silly details like this
would be a good thing.

~~~
unalone
I think it's referring to how Firefox removed Live Search from the default
downloads set.

