
Why Facebook should pay everyone a basic income - triplesec
https://www.ft.com/content/5103204e-7b5b-11e7-ab01-a13271d1ee9c
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libeclipse
> Why Facebook should pay us a basic income

Perhaps so we can afford the $10 subscription fee to find out why Facebook
should pay everyone a basic income.

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imartin2k
i put it into instapaper and was actually able to read it.

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pmiller2
This is kinda ridiculous. What about those of us who don't use Facebook?
Should they pay us, too? This has to be some kind of satire.

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
It kind of is. It alludes to Zuckerberg earlier statements in favor of basic
income. The author basically replies that he should set an example. "Mr.
Zuckerberg has said his purpose has been to make an impact rather than build a
company" \- so that now the opportunity presents itself to live up to his
words.

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dvfjsdhgfv
Non-paywalled link: [https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/why-facebook-should-pay-
us-a...](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/why-facebook-should-pay-us-a-basic-
income-commentary.html)

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known
I think
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency)
is better than UBI

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triplesec
I'm interested in your reasoning here: how does local currency solve the
problems that UBI is meant to, but better?

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felipeccastro
If Facebook paid people in exchange for the content they produce, it's not
UBI, it's normal income. UBI happens when you get paid for nothing. Looking
the example from Alaska, though, it makes sense - it encourages people to move
to a place they might not consider otherwise. Perhaps UBI would be a good idea
if offered by cities that are facing issues with declining population, as an
incentive for attracting more people.

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Latty
UBI is in the focus for a lot more than attracting people to an area - it's a
solution to a future (present?) where we don't need everyone to work.

The reality is when all the menial jobs are automated, you have to reclassify
anyone not capable of non menial jobs as disabled, create busywork jobs that
don't give value / actively don't automate things just to create jobs, or
provide UBI.

Maybe the first option combined with better education would work, but UBI
seems like the best option. It should also cut costs around welfare and,
morally, I think it is right - everyone should be able to live, regardless of
ability.

I think the idea of UBI as incentive is dangerous because it leaves a lot of
potential for rug pulling when it sees success.

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felipeccastro
I don't think we'll reach this point of all jobs being automated, where UBI
becomes an absolute necessity, mostly because human desires are unlimited, but
that's beyond the point I'm making here.

I'm curious about why you think UBI as incentive would be dangerous,
especially in the scenario I described. Doesn't this already work in Alaska?
What kind of rug pulling you expect it might happen?

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Latty
Human desire might be, but human ability isn't. If we don't raise the level of
education everyone can get, and to a lesser extent even if we do, some people
just will not be able to do any of the jobs that aren't automated - that's
already true today. As I said before - our current solution, call them
disabled and provide for them specifically, would have to be expanded, or UBI
would solve the problem universally.

As to it being an incentive - if you provide a UBI as an incentive, you will
presumably get people moving there to receive that UBI. When enough people
have moved to the place and the incentive is stopped, it could easily cause
huge issues as those people who moved will be relying on it.

It's probably only an issue if the UBI is high enough.

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Torai
Nah. UBI is government's duty.

What companies like Facebook should start doing is to stop avoiding taxes.
That is the best way if they really want to help.

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holydude
Not really. Yeah even if we would assume responsible governments and effective
governance what makes you think that the money collected from taxes would not
go to where it should not ?

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Torai
If you assume "responsible governments and effective governance", then yes,
money collected from taxes would go where it does the most for the overall
well-being. But I'm aware of how governments are hijacked by private
corporations that lobby and bribe politicians so they work to maximize those
private profits in detriment of the public interest.

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nhumrich
Facebook makes slightly more than a dollar per active facebook user (in
profits). So if they did payout to active users, it would be just a couple (or
tens) of dollars. Hardly an "income".

Reasoning: Facebook's profits divided by active users.

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mcbruiser3
considering how hard Zuck is pushing for this, then sure, let him put his
money where his mouth is... oh, you want other people to pay for your lefty
ideas? I see.

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metaphorm
UBI isn't a lefty idea at all actually. It's probably most popular with right-
leaning Libertarians.

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tartuffe78
It's wealth redistribution, so I don't see how it fits with libertarian ideals
in any way.

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metaphorm
there's a far greater diversity of Libertarian thought than you seem to be
assuming, and ultra laissez-faire capitalist ideology is a very very narrow
slice of it that I think is a position discussed loudly by undergrads and
dismissed quietly by everyone else.

The reason this form of wealth distribution is favored by many Libertarians is
that it far more free of encumbrances and complexities than any other form of
redistribution you might think of. It's not means-tested, everyone gets it, so
that avoids the moral hazard of treating the wealthy differently than the
poor. It's not restricted in what you can do with the money, so that avoids
the moral hazard of picking winners and losers in the marketplace by
government fiat. It's not linked to unenforceable nanny state monitoring of
people's behavior, so that avoids the moral hazard of intrusive bureaucrats
monitoring your spending habits.

It is a policy that can aim to provide significant humanitarian improvements
in people's lives while avoiding many of traditional pitfalls of government
policies intended to provide humanitarian relief.

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mcbruiser3
> than any other form of redistribution you might think of.

and why do we need to do redistribution of any sort? I think that's what
Libertarians are opposed to.

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rakshithbekal
actually that wouldn't be a bad idea considering they get $ worth of money
from our data. That way people join the service too and they can mine more.

