
SupermealX, India’s Soylent - jagath
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/29/world/asia/india-soylent-supermealx.html
======
fsiefken
All this talk about liquid food as a holy grail to pursue is intruiging but I
wonder, what harm does it do to the teeth, oral flora and digestive system if
they have nothing to 'chew' on? Just like our body slowly atrophies when we
sit to much and move to little, perhaps our body needs the traditional
'holistic' form of food (not necessarily including raw food)?

~~~
Crito
Probably best for Soylent drinkers to regularly chew gum. It'd be pretty
awkward to discover after a few months that your jaw muscles have atrophied so
severely that you have trouble chewing even the softest dry foods.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Perhaps its counter acted by them telling me all the time how much better it
is than solid food :-).

But more seriously you do have a valid (if taken to an extreme) point. But
similar arguments are made by people on segways losing walking endurance (or
cars even). Actual atrophy seems to require complete non-use.

~~~
jacobolus
People using motor vehicles all the time absolutely causes atrophy. Lack of
mobility among the sedentary (especially sedentary and obese) part of the
population is a serious problem. There are a substantial number of people who
have difficulty walking even a couple of blocks, not through any prior injury
or disability, but just through disuse of their legs.

My wife and I were at the Biltmore estate in North Carolina a couple years
ago. We wandered through the gardens, and we were chatting with a couple of
ladies about what we had seen. They were shocked that we had walked a half
mile from the parking lot instead of taking the shuttle. “You _walked_ all the
way from the house to here?!”

------
molecule
_> Also, society is conditioned to believe there is something objectionable
about the poor being made to drink a tasteless subsidized potion because they
cannot afford the other kind of good food. There are movies in which people
consuming tasteless but utilitarian nutrition is depicted as evidence of
dystopia._

It seems conspicuous that it wasn't mentioned that Soylent is the namesake of
one of those movies. Is it assumed that most NYT readers will make / have
already made the association?

------
frofroggy
> _Also, society is conditioned to believe there is something objectionable
> about the poor being made to drink a tasteless subsidized potion because
> they cannot afford the other kind of good food._

Others might object to a mandated government subsidy for a product without
relevant prior analysis of the existing market for minimum-cost diets (e.g.,
determining the cost of the Stigler Diet for the region).

------
oneJob
That idea that a selection of vitamins and minerals, et al. can replace
traditional food has largely been debunked, for the current state of the art
at least. Perhaps in the future, but based on our current knowledge base we
can not yet replace traditional food with synthesized pills and powder for the
majority of one's natural life. We still do not know all of the nutritional
elements of some of the most basic fruits we pick up every day in our grocery
store. If you don't believe me (I wouldn't, who am I?) check out the book
below. The author has been in the field for decades, well published, studied
both reductionist and wholistic approaches to nutrition.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t-colin-campbell/whole-book-
ex...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/t-colin-campbell/whole-book-excerpt-
_b_3308560.html)

~~~
ajmurmann
I think the debate around Soylent really suffers from disagreement of what
users of Soylent use it for, what others think it is being used for out should
be used for and what it is advertised as. I think it's foolish to believe that
Soylent will provide a very healthy diet just I its own. As you point out we
know way to little about what the body needs. That's why no one I know who
uses Soylent eats it exclusively. Unfortunately that's not what is advertised
as. If you see it as an alternative to a rushed meal that comes from a fast
food chain and our prematr from the freezer in the grocery store, Soylent is
the better choice. I eat/drink Soylent for breakfast add weekday lunches. For
dinner I usually have streamed vegetables and done lean meat with done fresh
fruit later in the evening. I think together that probably makes for a much
better diet than most people have. Yes, it could be improved by replacing the
Soylent with a more traditional, but healthy meal, but the effort I'm willing
to invest I breakfast and weekday lunches prevents that as far as I can see.
Especially at the price point that Soylent comes at. I'm certain that most
Soylent users see Soylent as a replacement for a crappy sandwich or burger
with a side of potato chips and not as a replacement for a wholesome meal.

~~~
oneJob
Unfortunately Soylent does not market it as such. If they did, I'd be inclined
to agree with you. However, on Soylent's website you can find the following:

"Soylent is a food product (classified as a food, not a supplement, by the
FDA) designed for use as a staple meal by all adults."
-[https://www.soylent.com/about/](https://www.soylent.com/about/)

"Soylent is designed as a simple staple food, and people incorporate it into
their lives to varying degrees. Some people use it almost exclusively, while
others use it 2-3 times per week. There is no right or wrong amount of Soylent
to eat - the whole idea is to find a balance that works for you."
-[https://faq.soylent.com/hc/en-us/articles/201273045-How-
do-I...](https://faq.soylent.com/hc/en-us/articles/201273045-How-do-I-use-
Soylent-)

"Our goal at Soylent is to engineer nutritionally-complete food products that
are optimized for modern consumers' lifestyles and budgets. Above all, we want
to make healthy nutrition easily attainable." -[https://faq.soylent.com/hc/en-
us/articles/203709619-Soylent-...](https://faq.soylent.com/hc/en-
us/articles/203709619-Soylent-Approach-to-Nutrition)

So by using terms or phrases such as 'complete', 'almost exclusively', and
'staple', and going so far as to remark that it is classified by the FDA as a
'food' and not a 'supplement', Soylent is explicitly marketing their product
as a primary or complete food and nutrition source.

Their words. Not mine.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food)

~~~
Karunamon
It sounds like the FDA classified it for them.

Given:

\- The FDA considers it a food

\- Soylent considers it a food

\- Soylent users are on record as consuming mostly or all the product for
their primary complete food source..

\- ..over long periods of time, including the founder, who supposedly lives on
the stuff.

\- Of those users, most are reporting positive results...

\- ..and the negative results are generally of the classes "don't like the
taste" / "gave me bad gas"

..then I'm left to conclude that it is a food, and a pretty good one at that.

------
ChuckMcM
I got some Soylent for my earthquake supplies, its shelf stable and nicer than
the 3kCal US Coast Guard biscuit rations. Are their disaster kits in India?
Something to tide you over until the systems reboot sufficiently ?

~~~
DanBC
(This sounds like an aggressive quibble, but it isn't. I am just interested.)

May I ask: how do you know soylent is shelf stable? Is it packed in a
protective atmosphere? What testing have they done?

~~~
ChuckMcM
The current Soylent packaging comes with a one year shelf expiration date. I
don't know the testing they have done to back that up. The USCG rations have a
10 year expiration date but other stuff in my earthquake kit is best
rotated/replaced on an annual basis so it works for me.

------
DanBC
> Ever since an American electrical engineer invented a food that abolishes
> the inconveniences of foraging and cooking, and contains all the nutrition a
> human body is known to require but is devoid of the substances that harm,
> there has been talk that it can end not only the problems of the overfed but
> also the underfed. After all, it is in the tradition of Silicon Valley-
> blessed projects to invent a solution for the rich that eventually “makes
> the world a better place,” to borrow an expression used by tech billionaires
> and comedians.

Jesus fucking christ.

1) Soylent didn't invent anything. Complete liquid meals have been around for
many years.

2) No one credible suggest soylent is useful to end world hunger. It's too
expensive; it has the wrong nutrient balance; it's made in the wrong place; it
requires too much clean water; it's worse than the existing emergency food
products in many different ways.

~~~
nether
I think any Soylent thread would benefit from a summary of typical comments,
to make way for new ideas. Pick yours.

1\. Liquid diets aren't new

2\. Cooking is easy and enjoyable, I don't see why people avoid it

3\. Soylent is healthier than fast food even if it's inferior to well-made
natural meals

4\. It hasn't undergone rigorous, clinical testing

5\. It's dystopic, dehumanizing

6\. It's a dietary choice of others that makes me inexplicably angry

7\. I've been trying it for 50-100% of my calories for X weeks and it's been
great/terrible

8\. It's based on outdated FDA recommended allowances

9\. It ignores the social, cultural aspects of food

~~~
codingdave
I pick #1. My biggest problem with Soylent is not what they are doing, but
that they have an attitude that they invented the idea.

~~~
Retric
There are a many meal replacements out there that are meant to supplement a
diet. Ensure for example is easy to find, but it's not designed to be the only
thing you eat.

There are some medical products that fit the goal, but I don't know of any
that are marketed to the general public. Though, if you actually have a better
alternative in mind I think a lot of people here would be interested.

~~~
DanBC
> Ensure for example is easy to find, but it's not designed to be the only
> thing you eat.

Untrue. Ensure has many different products, and many of them are complete meal
replacements.

~~~
Retric
Link?

From there site: [https://ensure.com/nutrition-facts-questions-
answers](https://ensure.com/nutrition-facts-questions-answers)

"Can Ensure products be used as a meal replacement or a snack? Yes, Ensure
ready-to-drink shakes and drinks can be used as a snack and as _an occasional
meal replacement._ "

~~~
DanBC
The fact they don't market themselves to the general public as a complete meal
replacement just means they're a) aware that they're operating in a litigious
market segment and b) not fucking arseholes who recognise that they have a
duty of care to people who use their products.

It's telling that Soylent kickstarted with a bunch of bullshit medical claims,
and that while they've dropped those claims they continue to make borderline
dishonest claims.

Ensure is used as a total meal replacement for people with severe illness and
for people being fed through a naso-gastric tube (sometimes against their
will).

But if you're a doctor you probably one of the other Abbott brands, which have
licencing and testing to support them.

[http://abbottnutrition.com/brands/abbott-
brands](http://abbottnutrition.com/brands/abbott-brands)

EG: [http://abbottnutrition.com/brands/products/ensure-plus-
thera...](http://abbottnutrition.com/brands/products/ensure-plus-therapeutic-
nutrition)

> For interim sole-source nutrition.

~~~
Retric
Jevity one of the abbot brands you mention is clearly designed for long term
use as 'sole-source nutrition'. And, I am sure someone has lived off of
Ensure, but just because they also sell total nutrition products does not mean
Ensure was designed for that role.

Design goals matter, Jevity/Oxepa/etc being designed for feeding tube use has
little focus on taste.

Another example, Osmolite is sole-source nutrition but it's low-residue which
is not good for healthy people who need more fiber.

PS: You can look through there brands, but there is a reason they sell so many
different kinds as they each have different trade offs.

ED: I have had significant digestive issues in the past so I have done some
research into this. And, talk to a nutritionist before going on any unusual
diet, it's easy to mess things up long term.

------
littletimmy
For the starving poor - it is too expensive.

For the tasteful rich - it is too bland.

For the average house - it is too unlike a home-cooked meal.

For programmers being used as disposable slaves - it's perfect! Less time
eating, more time programming.

------
mahouse
Designated food.

