
Assange tried to use embassy as 'centre for spying', says Ecuador's Moreno - kudu
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/14/assange-tried-to-use-embassy-as-centre-for-spying-says-ecuadors-moreno
======
cletus
So the big winner here really is the US.

They got Assange in a virtual prison for ~7 years at no cost to them (that
cost was borne by the UK and the Metropolitan Police). You can't argue that
being holed up in an embassy is that much better than prison.

What's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll like
serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are only
the beginning). The one (?) remaining charge in Sweden will quickly fall apart
no doubt.

Arguments that Assange deserve protection as a journalist are (IMHO) a stretch
at best. Getting a hold of classified information is one thing. Aiding in
defeating security measures to obtain it is quite another story.

But to me at least, the big problem is that Assange lost all credibility as a
journalist over the Wikileaks handling of the 2016 election and related
hackings (eg the DCC emails). You'll have a hard time arguing that Assange
(and Wikileaks by extension) wasn't picking a side here and doing what they
can to influence the outcome of the election.

A traditional media outlet with an op-ed section is one thing. Playing an
active part in illegally obtaining emails and other materials as well as
arguably passing on that information to a presidential campaign is quite
something else.

Even Snowden filtered his classified material through reputable media outlets.

So now we have embassy (~7 years), fighting extradition to either the US or
Sweden (2+ years probably), whatever prison time he has to serve in the UK
(which will run concurrently to fighting extradition no doubt as it's typical
to serve that time first) and then years, perhaps many years, in US prisons.
He may not see the light of day until 2030, maybe 2040.

~~~
gotocake
_You can 't argue that being holed up in an embassy is that much better than
prison._

I’ve seen footage of where he was in the embassy, it’s a _lot_ better than
prison. He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, no one was trying
to rape him or stab him, he woke up and went to sleep when he wanted, ate an
array of foods, and until the end had access to people who wanted to visit in
person. No guards abused him, and if he wanted to he _could_ leave. Plus, he
made a choice to enter the embassy and stay there.

 _What 's more none of that ~7 years counts towards actual jail time he'll
like serve in the UK (for absconding) and the US (the publicized charges are
only the beginning). The one (?) remaining charge in Sweden will quickly fall
apart no doubt._

On what planet would time spent after jumping bail and seeking asylum in an
embassy count toward time served? That’s... insane. As far as the charges
falling apart we’ll have to wait and see, if they’re even filed. Of course if
the charges were nonsense then 7 years in an embassy was a really stupid
choice.

 _Arguments that Assange deserve protection as a journalist are (IMHO) a
stretch at best. Getting a hold of classified information is one thing. Aiding
in defeating security measures to obtain it is quite another story. But to me
at least, the big problem is that Assange lost all credibility as a journalist
over the Wikileaks handling of the 2016 election and related hackings (eg the
DCC emails). You 'll have a hard time arguing that Assange (and Wikileaks by
extension) wasn't picking a side here and doing what they can to influence the
outcome of the election. A traditional media outlet with an op-ed section is
one thing. Playing an active part in illegally obtaining emails and other
materials as well as arguably passing on that information to a presidential
campaign is quite something else. Even Snowden filtered his classified
material through reputable media outlets._

Yes, that all sounds about right. He’s also not being charged with what he
carelessly published, but rather how he attempted to obtain it. Journalism
isn’t even in the room.

 _So now we have embassy (~7 years), fighting extradition to either the US or
Sweden (2+ years probably), whatever prison time he has to serve in the UK
(which will run concurrently to fighting extradition no doubt as it 's typical
to serve that time first) and then years, perhaps many years, in US prisons.
He may not see the light of day until 2030, maybe 2040._

The common factor here is his series of bad decisions.

~~~
roenxi
> no one was trying to rape him or stab him ... no guards abused him

Raping, stabbing and abusing people is still illegal in prison, you know. It
isn't supposed to be part of the process. Assange isn't a violent offender
either, so it'd be a little unfortunate if he was imprisoned with people who
are.

Nobody is saying that the time he spent in the embassy should or could count
towards his eventual prison sentences, but the 7 years he has spent there
looks a lot like a self-imposed prison sentence.

> He also didn’t have to be counted five times a day, ... he woke up and went
> to sleep when he wanted, ate an array of foods

Those are clearly luxuries vs being imprisoned, but if that is the margin
between being imprisoned or not the distinction is really irrelevant.

> Plus, he made a choice to enter the embassy and stay there.

So instead of accepting a state-controlled imprisonment he chose a voluntary
period of conditions quite similar to being imprisoned. That is compelling
evidence that he was serious about fearing extradition to the US to face
whatever horrors they have in store for him.

I mean, objectively, if he believed he was just going to face rape charges in
Sweden none of his choices make much sense. I doubt he was going to face more
than 7 years for an offense that caused no injuries and that the victims
didn't think was outrageously terrible at the time it happened. If he ever
claimed his accusers weren't being truthful, the only compelling evidence is
that there are two of them.

~~~
LiquidSky
>So instead of accepting a state-controlled imprisonment he chose a voluntary
period of conditions quite similar to being imprisoned.

Yes, that's what anyone who has ever fled an arrest warrant has done. It also
apparently worked, as he was able to outlast the Swedish warrant (though I
understand that the charges are technically suspended, not dropped).

>That is compelling evidence that he was serious about fearing extradition to
the US to face whatever horrors they have in store for him.

If he was serious about that then he probably should have been very careful
about not irritating his hosts, which he seems to have done flagrantly and
repeatedly.

------
saagarjha
> He accused Assange of repeatedly interfering in the internal affairs of
> other states, referencing WikiLeaks’ publication of Vatican documents in
> January 2019 as a recent example. “It is unfortunate that there are
> individuals dedicated to violating the privacy of people,” Moreno said.

Why even offer asylum then? This is literally what WikiLeaks _does_.

~~~
devoply
When you lose your freedom and become a political pawn, you should act the
part. You don't see Snowden shitting on Russia do you?

~~~
kudu
You do. [1][2] But you have a point more generally.

[1] [https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/19/edward-
snow...](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/19/edward-snowden-nsa-
leaker-says-hes-not-safe-russia/)

[2] [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-
snowd...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/29/edward-snowden-
describes-russian-government-as-corrupt)

~~~
devoply
Yeah this was what after 5 years and not saying much other than Russia is
corrupt. And if he keeps it up then he may be sent to the US at any point.

~~~
boomboomsubban
He has been critical of them the entire time[1], knowing the risks it entails.
It's just not his focus as he has no influence in Russia.

[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladim...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladimir-
putin-surveillance-us-leaders-snowden)

------
narag
Isolation is a very bad thing. Seven years is too much. Feeling wronged, with
the USA after you, confined to a building for someone used to travelling the
world... I can understand a behaviour that I strongly dislike, including all
kind of shit suggested by the only people that supported him.

So I'm sorry for him and Snowden, but I wouldn't trust either of them in their
current circumstances.

~~~
caprese
odd to add Snowden to that

Assange was in a building, Snowden is in the largest country on the planet

~~~
Waterluvian
I get a sense that some think Snowden is hiding somewhere in Russia, under
some form of house arrest.

My understanding is that he's pretty much free to move about the country.

~~~
ShorsHammer
He's tweeted as much. People do ask him about it and the response has always
been he basically has no contact with the government anymore and lives a
boring mundane life in a city somewhere. Make of that what you will.

As long as he doesn't speak ill of his hosts he'll probably be fairly safe for
a while.

