
Stack Overflow's Original 99designs Logo Contest - dmazin
http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-stackoverflow-6774/entries?filter=allactive&sorting=rating
======
jongalloway2
Let's flip this around: Jeff paid $512 and got a logo that's definitely done
its job. It's recognizable, tasteful and fits with the site design. The
company has continued with this design and has been very successful.

So it's clearly worked.

What may not be immediately obvious is why it worked: Jeff had a clear
aesthetic in mind and applied it throughout the contest. You can see that from
the feedback process on these designs.

Professional designers offer more than mechanical skills with Photoshop and
Illustrator, they bring a few other things to the table:

\- A sense of taste (which many business owners lack)

\- An ability to synthesize multiple inputs and determine what's important

\- Strategies for selling a design to a committee of decision makers who can't
agree

\- etc. etc.

In many cases, these soft skills are a huge value add to a business or
project. In some cases, though - a developer who's got a good idea of an
overall aesthetic, no need to convince a big group, etc. - all that's really
needed is the mechanical work: show me a bunch of designs and I'll pick the
best one. In this sort of situation, there's little value to add.

~~~
ericcholis
I'd like to echo the best point of your comment, "Strategies for selling a
design to a committee of decision makers who can't agree". I think that many
of these design by committee or contests fail greatly in part of the
solicitors, not the designers.

In most instances, a bad design is a bad design and won't be chosen. But, it's
up to the client to have enough sense to choose the correct design.

------
rolleiflex
I will probably be scalded here for saying this here, but here it goes: this
just dropped my appreciation of Jeff Attwood and Stack Overflow two notches.

I just cannot appreciate a developer using such a site, while a sizeable
portion of developers also work on very similar premises compared with
designers; hourly payment and no spec work. (i.e. we'll buy your application
if we like it.) For some people, mostly executives and other business oriented
disciplines, this is a fair deal as it is what the free market bears; they do
not and will not care about long-term health of the industry, the other side
of the stick, or the designer on the line. It just doesn’t click for them, and
that’s understandable somewhat because they’ve never been in a similar
situation before.

But a developer using this service knows exactly what this entails, they are
aware of the concept of spec-work, and maybe even had to do it for some
reason. My problem is not the amount of money per-se, but with doing work for
nothing, hoping that it will pay in the future. A developer cannot claim
ignorance. It’s just plain nonchalant lack of empathy.

~~~
readme
How about the many stack overflow users who contribute questions and answers
on a regular basis? Are they being ripped off by Jeff and Joel, too? NO.
Because Stack Overflow provides us with a very valuable platform. By posting
our questions and answers, we accrue valuable reputation on the internet. This
is proven and true, and the reason careers 2.0 is working out great.

Now, if you take a look at the link to the original 99 designs contest, you'll
see that the artist who won the contest is now known as "Please_Remove" --
gee, I wonder why? Perhaps because he was able to use 99designs as a conduit
for his graphic design career and is now taking on much bigger and better
projects? I'm sure after designing such an iconic logo like that, you'll
become famous.

So, you see. We participate in these crowdsourced sites because there's
something in it for all of us. I post on SO, for me. I understand others
benefit from my posts, but I'm there for two reasons: demonstrate my
knowledge, and sponge up everyone else's knowledge.

People working on 99designs might not even be designers yet. But they're
getting valuable experience in what clients want, every time they attempt a
design, whether they win it or not.

The people on 99designs are not people who have their full schedule booked up
with work. And ergo, they have taken a radical and brave step to change that.
By subjecting their work to the scrutiny of market forces, they will see if
they truly have what it takes to swim.

You can argue no-spec all you want but the two facts remain that make
99designs 100% legit:

    
    
        * Everyone working there is doing so voluntarily
        * Everyone shopping there is doing so voluntarily
    

No one is forcing you to do anything, and the people working on 99 designs are
clearly benefiting from it if they are worth half their salt as designers.

~~~
rolleiflex
I am not making the argument that using 99designs is not legal, I'm making the
argument that it is not moral. It’s a society’s job to match legality to
morality, and just like everyone has different opinions on morality, you’re
more than welcome to use as it is legal. If people were forced to work there,
it would not be legal.

>Now, if you take a look at the link to the original 99 designs contest,
you'll see that the artist who won the contest is now known as "Please_Remove"
-- gee, I wonder why?

Going with your assumption that he or she became famous, why does she want to
be not seen anymore at a spec-work site, one would think? It's either because
he / she is embarrassed to worked at one time at a spec work site, or that he
or she, after gaining experience, understood that spec-work is actually not
that good of an idea. Considering the weakness of no-spec organized movement
amongst designers, I would say the latter.

I also happen to be an active contributor to the Stack Overflow, and I find it
very useful. I also contribute. It’s a fair deal. But it’s not spec-work. I
have no expectation of compensation. While seemingly similar, it’s stands at a
very different place.

That said, I agree that 99designs is a good training ground for budding
designers, nonetheless it not existing would be an even better one.

~~~
pbiggar
> If people were forced to work there, it would not be legal.

Indeed, if people were forced to work anywhere, it would not be legal.

~~~
readme
Untrue: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai>

~~~
pbiggar
Touche! Prison is a special exception to most logical arguments. Indeed, it
would be perfectly legal for convicts to be forced to compete in 99designs
style competitions too, unless that fails the "cruel and unusual" punishment
laws ;)

------
mortenjorck
Instead of voicing yet more disapproval for 99designs, I'd like to make a
positive suggestion for anyone looking to save money on a branding project:

Go to a portfolio network like Behance.net and browse the portfolios under
branding. You'll find plenty of interesting, talented, and available
designers, many of whom are just starting out or live in far-flung places with
low overheads.

It won't be quite as fast or cheap as going with the crowdsourced alternative,
but it will definitely be faster and cheaper than going with a firm that touts
big-name clients. Most importantly, you'll get to experience a real design
process, and maybe even forge a relationship with someone who gets to know
your business and what you're looking for when you need more design work.

~~~
shredfvz
To the professional designers here, how much guaranteed prize money would it
take for you to participate in crowdsourcing contests for app design?

Sites like Folyo are a good idea, and I'm happy to see so many designers on
HN, but as someone who's worked with crowdsourcing sites and pro designers
one-on-one, it's much better as a client to have multiple designers working on
your idea simultaneously based on a single crowdsourcing design brief than
finding good designers on Dribbble/Folyo, building relationships with
individuals who may or may not be a good fit, and then managing relationships
with the candidates who happen to be available and oh they want to get paid
$150/hr up front for work that isn't guaranteed to work for you, be on time,
on budget, etc.

I would much rather pay $10,000 guaranteed if it meant having Folyo level
designers compete to deliver something based on a design brief. Overall, I
think crowdsourcing is a much better arrangement than pay 'N pray. It leads to
a wider range of options, more creativity, and ultimately gives clients better
results.

~~~
illumen
Big agencies often 'pitch' for million [dollar|pound|euro|...] jobs. These are
competitions too.

There is always a cost to following up on some job. Not just money, costs...
but time, pain, opportunity costs etc.

Reduce the cost for the worker, and reduce the cost for the consumer to lower
than what they could do together, and you have a good sustainable business. If
you can just reduce the cost for one of the parties, then you'll probably
still do well. Reduce just one type of cost, and there is even probably some
good business for you :)

~~~
filmgirlcw
Those big agencies also get a retainer just for trying. If you're talking
about a million dollar campaign, you pitch, but you get a retainer that pays
for your time. It's not even remotely the same thing. Moreover, you compete
against one -- maybe two -- other agencies.

------
ronaldj
This is obviously the best one: [http://99designs.com/logo-
design/contests/logo-stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-
design/contests/logo-stackoverflow-6774/entries/80)

~~~
wilfra
and he gave it one star, no sense of humor

~~~
hackerboos
If you know how 99 Designs works then you would know that awarding multiple
stars to this logo would change the submissions after to be all pancake
related.

When a designer shows an interest in a logo, then all other designs follow
suit and basically 'spin-off' that logo.

------
sgdesign
I would just like to point out that Stack Exchange doesn't use 99designs
anymore. Here's just an example:

[http://www.usabilitypost.com/2011/04/22/designing-ux-
exchang...](http://www.usabilitypost.com/2011/04/22/designing-ux-exchange/)

------
andrewfelix
99 designs is a disgusting waste of resources and talent. If you're a designer
like me, you'll get much more value investing your time in building long
lasting relationships.

If you're looking for a design, please put in the effort and get to know a
designer. Most are incredibly hard working and won't be happy until your
happy.

~~~
pbiggar
I see from this comment and others on the page that you're very angry about
99designs, and people who use it. I can see why - it commoditizes your
profession.

But can you see it from the other side? There are clearly designers (starting
out, living in low cost economies, etc) who are happy enough to use it, and
it's not always possible to pay a designer until we're both happy.

~~~
andrewfelix
> _happy enough to use it_

'Desperate' is a more appropriate term.

 _> "...not always possible to pay a designer until we're both happy."_

In my opinion a fair amount of work should receive a fair amount of pay. There
would be untold wasted hours invested in 99design jobs that were never won
because of a trivial differences between two or three leading designs.

Graphic designers aren't pitching to invest time and labour for the
opportunity to work. They're actually investing the time first and just
crossing theire fingers.

I'm not angry at companies using 99 designs, I'm annoyed at the system and
those who enable it, including the designers themselves.

If you have $300 to spend on a logo, there are hundreds of good designers out
there who will take the time to get to know your needs and develop a solution
that you're happy with.

~~~
natrius
Choosing a designer is _hard_. Using 99designs freed me from that task. The
final comparison comes down to $300 for a logo vs. $300 plus the time and
effort required to find the right designer plus the risk they'll produce
something you don't like. I took the former deal, and I continue to think it
was the right one.

~~~
andrewfelix
Check out <http://dribbble.com/>

Lots of great designers for hire.

~~~
natrius
Dribbble does not change the value proposition I outlined. What rational
business owner will choose picking a designer from Dribbble and hoping they'll
produce a desirable logo instead of picking a logo from 99designs? To me,
99designs seems like a vastly superior option.

------
nhebb
What I envision when I see some of these -

Waterfall model: [http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow-6774/entries/182)

Bubble sort: [http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow-6774/entries/145)

Recycle bin: [http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow-6774/entries/191)

Broken database: [http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow-6774/entries/286)

------
dmazin
By the way, here's the poll for the name:
<http://www.addpoll.com/results?14407>

Private Void isn't so bad!

~~~
alanh
I voted in that. I know I didn’t like Stack Overflow because it is a negative
thing, and I thought it’d be better to choose a name with a positive
association; but obviously it’s not been a problem.

I don’t remember what I _did_ vote for. I don’t love any of those candidates.

------
davebees
Wow — they paid $1.70 per design. Were sites like 99designs as taboo then as
they seem to be now?

~~~
jorts
The only experience I've had with 99designs was through a friend but he had
really good responses. Do you mind sharing what's so taboo about using it?

~~~
artursapek
I used to try making money as a designer on 99Designs. Basically, it's taboo
because designers get paid like $2 an hour there. It's a business model skewed
completely towards the clients.

Can't blame 99 for it, they're not forcing any designers to keep working at
trying to win these contests, but the way they advertise all the money being
made in large sums makes it feel like there's more of a chance of making solid
money than there actually is.

Of course I never was the best anyway, many others had more success than me.
But it's still a very bad average pay-off for the designers.

~~~
stfu
It depends a lot on the designer/buyer relationship. For example a friend of
mine had for example his logo done through 99Designs but ended up getting the
whole CI for his business done plus keeps coming back for follow-up orders.
Therefore I would reframe 99designs as a way for designers to get clients
without having to find cold-leads while at the same time being able to
practicing their skillset/portfolio on real-world designs.

~~~
rmrfrmrf
> practicing their skillset/portfolio on real-world designs.

Just FYI, that kind of justification is offensive to designers. Practice and
portfolio pieces don't put food on the table.

~~~
stfu
Not at all. I think with every creativity centric professions reaching true
mastery is a long process. If a designer is not able to attract clients by
previous work this can have many reasons, but improving the ability to produce
work suited for professional use might be a great step.

------
readme
This one looks a lot like the current server fault logo

[http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow-6774/entries/265)

~~~
dhotson
So does this one: [http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
serverfault-2...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
serverfault-20088)

;-)

------
darklajid
My pet peeve..

Redirects me to <http://99designs.de/...>.

Top bar with '99designs.de now speaks German! Switch to English or continue
with German.' and most content (the 'ui') is in German, mixed with original
English parts (English contest title, English comments). The amount is listed
as 512$ and seems awkward (for Euro that's fine, for $ it looks out of place).

My browser sends 'Accept-Language en-US,en;q=0.5'.

Clearly the site ignores my preferences and web standards. I won't return.

~~~
lox
Followed up via email, this sounds like a bug which we'll look at. We use
geoIP for the ccTLD redirect, but then Accept headers should dictate the
language subdomain.

------
stevewillows
Can anyone explain how something like this works for the graphic designer? The
service says 'more for less' -- which for me is 'more [design] for less
[money]'.

~~~
DrStalker
My understanding:

You give some information about what you want. You offer a prize for the best
logo ($512 in this case.) Anyone can submit a logo. You pick your favorite,
pay the prize money, and the logo is yours to use or not use as you see fit.

Even if you get no logos you like you're only out the prize money, which is a
lot cheaper than a talented designer would cost. It's great for a business
that needs a cheap logo, not so great for designers making a living from logo
design.

I don't know who owns rights for non-winning logos.

~~~
evoxed
All participating designers should read the terms for the site they're using
(obviously) but in general they retain all rights to their own work if not
chosen. The most common exception is for promotional purposes, i.e. if the
site wants to run a campaign they can use your image without requiring any
notification.

------
idealancer
Interesting that the Stack Overflow team also had a contest for superuser.com
on crowdspring.com

[http://www.crowdspring.com/project/1247533_logo-for-
superuse...](http://www.crowdspring.com/project/1247533_logo-for-
superusercom/details/)

------
kyberias
My personal favourite: [http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow...](http://99designs.com/logo-design/contests/logo-
stackoverflow-6774/entries/183)

------
juanpdelat
Wondering if the $512 reward had anything to do with being geek.

~~~
degenerate
Most definitely.

------
javis
There are some truly awful designs on there. They defiantly made the right
choice.

------
camus
I cant wait to see 99developments created ! would be great to get 302
developments by 102 developpers for 500$ ! would save a lot of money...

~~~
tomjen3
I wouldn't do that if I were you. The quality is likely to be about the same
as what you can get on outsourcing sites and if that is good enough (and it
might be) then there is no reason to wait, potentially for years.

~~~
camus
my comment was purely sarcastic. I despise services like 99designs, but these
are the laws of the "free market".

