
A drug rehab program has sent patients to work without pay - smacktoward
https://www.revealnews.org/article/they-worked-in-sweltering-heat-for-exxon-shell-and-walmart-they-didnt-get-paid-a-dime/
======
xvector
I have the utmost hatred for these organizations. And the people that run
them. They need to be fined out of existence. Their executives _need_ to be
jailed.

I don't think our society will face meaningful change unless there are
_physical_ consequences (read: jail) to doing terrible-human-being stuff like
this. The executives will just go off with their cushy $20M severance
paychecks and exploit some other group of people in a slightly different way.

~~~
munk-a
Just in general America has a severe issue with CYOAism, liability sale,
liability insurance and responsibility - we need a serious reform to get rid
of excuses be it "just following my boss's orders" to "I was just responding
to market pressures - I'm an innocent capitalist fulfilling what the market
demands".

~~~
learc83
>I'm an innocent capitalist fulfilling what the market demands

I agree. We've been using that excuse for too long. In the 50's William
Levitt, the country's largest home builder and the originator of the modern
suburb, said exactly that when asked why he built white only communities.

"If we sell one house to a Negro family, 90 to 95 percent of our white
customers will not buy into the community."

"As a Jew, I have no room in my heart for racial prejudice. But the plain fact
is that most whites prefer not to live in mixed communities. This attitude may
be wrong morally, and someday it may change. I hope it will."

In other words: I know it's wrong, but I'm just doing what my customers want.

~~~
kazinator
Wow.

He did more than just use that excuse, he played the "I can't be racist
because I'm a Jew" card.

His reference to "white customers" doesn't even exclude Jews, to begin with.
Like, in 1950's America, did Jews eagerly move into communities with large
numbers of blacks, in stark contrast to "whites"?

~~~
jrochkind1
In 1950's America, actually, many white communities wouldn't allow Jews to buy
or rent.

But I agree with you that "I can't be racist because I'm a Jew" is ridiculous,
and that real estate profiteering off of racism is abhorent regardless of who
is doing it.

------
TomMckenny
>It’s like the closest thing to slavery

It is not just like slavery, it _is_ slavery. The 13th amendment explicitly
and intentionally allows slavery as a form of punishment.

And at the end of the Civil War, southern states capitalized on this and
passed broad laws like the vagrancy act that re-enslaved the recently freed.
For example, looking for separated family became criminal vagrancy.

The curiously profitable idea that forced labor is somehow morally beneficial
to its victim predates the Civil War and unfortunately clearly continues
today.

~~~
zdragnar
Rehab- proper rehab with counselling and treatment- is expensive.

Offering work to help pay the cost makes it much more accessible, and there is
definitely a theraputic effect to be had from manual labor (exercise) and a
regular schedule.

As long as the people there were (a) there voluntarily, (b) could leave at
will, and (c) knew what they were getting into, I dont see anything wrong with
it.

Of course, if they were not actually getting treatment, or if the work was
considered all of the "treatment" they would get, then it's an outright sham
and should be sued on malpractice grounds.

~~~
crooked-v
> or if the work was considered all of the "treatment" they would get

The article makes it clear that that's the case.

> Like many participants, Ethan Ewers was ordered to complete Cenikor by a
> Texas judge after failing a drug test while on probation. Once he arrived,
> he said he worked 43 days straight in a sweltering warehouse unloading cargo
> containers for Walmart.

> Multiple former staff members told Reveal that counselors routinely
> falsified counseling records to make it appear as though patients received
> more counseling than they did. During busy work seasons, some received no
> counseling at all.

------
seem_2211
This is criminal. We should have extremely harsh penalties for this sort of
nonsense.

~~~
munk-a
So I moved up to Canada a few years back... and was amazed and delighted to
see that unpaid internships are just blanket illegal up here. The US has some
pretty terrible labour laws.

~~~
xvector
Unpaid internships are usually illegal in the US too [1, 2]. Exploitative
managers ignore this rule and desperate interns don't care after a certain
point.

[1]:
[https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm](https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm)

[2]: [https://www.fastweb.com/career-planning/articles/let-s-
get-l...](https://www.fastweb.com/career-planning/articles/let-s-get-legal-
guidelines-for-paid-or-unpaid-internships)

~~~
cwkoss
I have a friend who took an unpaid internship in a state where it is not
legal. Then, once the internship was finished, he sent them an invoice for
hours worked at minimum wage. They were not happy, but they paid.

~~~
brewdad
I'm sure your friend lists them as a reference too. :)

~~~
cwkoss
Yeah, he certainly did not.

I wonder any states have DOL regulations that prevent companies from
disparaging workers making valid wage disputes. Perhaps there could be
additional statutory penalties if you could bait them into giving a bad
reference on the basis of the wage issue.

------
Johnny555
Is the program successful at its stated purpose of drug rehabilitation? How
does it compare to other treatment programs, in particular the recidivism
rate?

The article says:

 _Many participants said Cenikor saved their lives and equipped them for
success. After 18 months in the program, participants can become eligible to
receive wages and graduate with jobs, a car and the tools to build a promising
life. But fewer than 8 percent of people who enter Cenikor make it to
graduation, according to the program’s own numbers, and therefore never
receive a paying job._

So "many participants" said the program saved their lives, and while only 8%
"graduated" did the program help any of the other 92% of participants with
their drug problem?

I have a relative with serious drug problems, she's been through numerous drug
treatment problems and has "kicked the drug habit for good" too many times to
count. Drug rehabilitation is hard.

If this program actually worked, I'd be more inclined to overlook the hard
work part (but not the dangerous work, but since it's happening at established
employers, OSHA should be enforcing safer working conditions)

~~~
blotter_paper
8% is in the ballpark of AA/NA, IIRC (those organizations claim that they've
"never"* seen a person following their steps fail to stay clean/sober, but
that's just tautological nonsense), and this is about the same as people who
attempt rehab by going to church. To be clear about my biases I'm not
religious, I'm not categorically opposed to drugs (see username), but I've
also seen addiction wreck lives (including those of family members). It's not
obvious to me that everyone who gets clean from AA/NA would also get clean
from going to church or a work program like the one in TFA, and the same is
true of those other routes. I suspect there are overlapping sets of people who
would benefit from these different programs -- I don't know that, but it would
be surprising if human psychology was so simple that they were all the same
set, or that one was a superset of the other two. I've also known people who
went to AA/NA briefly, got clean, and went back to relatively minor drug use
without engaging in the sort of self-destructive excesses they had in the
past. I bet that some of the dropouts still found improvement in their lives.
I have mixed feelings about this article, and I'm not trying to defend
Cenikor, but I'm also not trying to attack them, just adding some thoughts
that might be relevant.

*IIRC, "never" has been changed to "rarely" in recent editions of the text, but only in the last decade or so.

~~~
munk-a
If you think that vocation is that valuable to recovery and you think it needs
to be extreme (80 hrs a week) vocation... we can have a conversation about
that, but those people should be paid fairly for their labour - again there
may be an interesting question about the benefits for holding that payment in
trust during their stay - and you might want to allow patients to borrow out
of their trust to pay for treatment, but all that money going back and forth
should be clearly declared and traceable - and I bet you that sending addicts
out into the world with some cash in the bank as opposed to unable to afford
rent would lower recidivism[1].

[1] And to counter the argument, if you think "Oh, they're just going to spend
it on drugs" yea, they might, they're an addict, but keeping their money is
saying "they can never be trusted to work and earn an income" in which case
why are they even being released.

~~~
blotter_paper
It seems uncontested that this company is doing _some_ good, whether or not
that good is outweighed by the bad. I'm unclear on the net effect, and not
really making a claim; I tried to be clear about that near the end of my prior
comment. If, hypothetically, the bad outweighs the good, I have no
disagreement with you. But in the other hypothetical, where the good outweighs
the bad, it seems like you're letting perfection be the enemy of improvement.
Just because we can imagine a better system doesn't mean we should tear down
an existing one that has some problems before beginning to implement a
replacement. I would be glad to see a program with all of the good and less of
the bad outcompete this one, even if this one has a net positive effect in the
mean time.

“You never change things by fighting against the existing reality. To change
something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.” --Buckminster
Fuller

~~~
munk-a
Sorry to clarify - I'm not rejecting the idea of vocation as a supporting
treatment to addiction. I, thankfully, have never had to deal with it in
myself or a loved one, I am stating that if their innovation is beneficial -
great, but now they need to shape up and stop abusing their patients - the
money needs to go into their clients hands along so that the incentive to push
this vocational opportunity too the point of abuse is removed.

So I agree that perfection is the enemy of the good in innovation, but it's
been innovated so now it's time to incrementally improve the system if it's
one that works. In this case unfortunately the company has been at it for more
than twenty years, so they have refused to work to improving the system and
instead have carried on with greedy exploitation which is a well warranted
reason for punishment for those individuals.

Also, my apology if my statement seemed directed at you, it was not intended
that way. I am quite serious about labour rights having worked in the gaming
industry and my passion may have overflown.

------
mirimir
If programs like this actually worked, they might be OK. And by "worked", I
mean that clients generally graduated with enough experience and references to
get well-paying jobs.

But it seems that they don't work. And that they're just a bullshit cover for
slavery.

~~~
drewmol
While it says only 8% graduate, I'd wager that a majority or large minority of
the _patients_ (ugh) who are subject to and participate in this 80-hour-
unpaid-work-week-as-a-rehab program are smart, capable and marketable enought
to leverage their _fully-employed_ appearance/status to find actual, paid
employment long before 18 months. 6300 hours is a lot of free labor to invest
for a mid 90's Oldsmobile.

~~~
mirimir
One hopes.

But what's the success rate for internships?

------
ummonk
Sounds like they’re probably keeping connected with politicians to ensure they
can operate with impunity when they should be getting criminally charged.

------
mnm1
Oh nice. Continuing America's tradition of slavery and forced labor regardless
of laws. And of course judges and the government are involved. These people
should all be thrown off high platforms or tall trees. Without any harnesses,
rope, or protective gear of course.

