
Down the Drain: How the Swachh Bharat Mission Is Heading for Failure - Vigier
http://www.caravanmagazine.in/reportage/swachh-bharat-mission-heading-failure
======
OliverJones
In the west a couple of hundred years ago, we used a mixture of religion and
shame to achieve the transformation of behavior necessary to meet these
sanitation goals.

"Cleanliness is next to godliness" was a slogan of that movement.

It took, more or less, a century to make the change. A big step in the right
direction was the 1854 discovery by Dr. John Snow that removing the handle
from a public water pump in London could slow a cholera pandemic. The well was
contaminated by human feces. Steven Johnson wrote it up in his book The Ghost
Map.

[http://www.worldcat.org/title/ghost-map-the-story-of-
londons...](http://www.worldcat.org/title/ghost-map-the-story-of-londons-most-
terrifying-epidemic-and-how-it-changed-science-cities-and-the-modern-
world/oclc/70483471)

A board of church directors (a vestry) owned that pump, and Dr. Snow had to
talk them into approving his plan. It wasn't easy: he was denying the
conventional pious wisdom of the time. But they went for it.

Then cleaning up cities required major advances in civil engineering
technology: things we take for granted today in the west, like interceptor
sewers and and treatment plants.

Whether or not PM Modi is a politician who toots his own horn is irrelevant to
this project. Its benefits will outlast everyone alive today. Go for it,
India!

~~~
eni
Interesting points!

I can't quite remember where I came across this (most likely in a TED talk),
and details I can recollect are very vague but here is a horrifying tidbit
from history:

In those days, apparently people used to collect excreta in some form of bins,
and dump it out in the streets. People used to drop it from multi floor
buildings also :(

It was mentioned that if a man is taking a woman on date, while walking in the
street he has to keep the woman on the side of the street; While the man
himself is walking on the side of the buildings (imagine man, woman walking
hand in hand, side by side). Why? in case someone throws unpleasant things
from a window above, it is the man who will take the (s)hit.

Sorry if it is unbelievably outrageous, but apparently that was our past :(

------
andrewksl
The numbers in India are staggering, but I was even more blown away by the
news that Bangladesh managed to get open defecation down from 44% in 2003 to
1% today.

[https://www.thethirdpole.net/2016/03/03/open-defecation-
ends...](https://www.thethirdpole.net/2016/03/03/open-defecation-ends-in-
bangladesh-almost/)

------
car
_The UN estimated that 65,000 tonnes of uncovered, untreated faeces—equal to
the weight of around 180 Airbus A380s—were being introduced into the
environment in India every single day._

This is an issue of mind boggling scale.

~~~
panzer_wyrm
I am sure that Airbus management is delighted with their best plane being
associated with huge piles of shit.

India has definitely a problem with this - it was the only country I was
warned about to never drink or eat anything outside of the hotel from friends
that had traveled all around the world.

In the Sheraton the water was crystal clear - I think they had in house water
plant. In the tech park next to it - it was yellow.

~~~
ageofwant
In Mumbai, bout 15 years ago we had a 'hotel boy', he came in every morning
and evening and swept the balcony clean of the day's accumulated soot. People
shitting, pissing and spitting in the street everywhere, all the time. A
jarring experience.

I'll tell you one thing for sure, if ever the world gets wiped out by some
global pandemic, the last man standing will be and Indian, pissing in the
street.

------
th1nkdifferent
For those who don't know what India's prime minister is doing, please read
this. It is just part of Swachh Bharat Mission -
[https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Indias-War-on-
Human-W...](https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Indias-War-on-Human-Waste)

~~~
ploxiln
It's interesting to juxtapose Bill Gates' report with the much more detailed
and first-hand one linked here.

Without having more certainty than is warranted, it seems plausible that Bill
Gates took Prime Minister Modi's word at face value, even though it was
apparently all political bluster, and he should not have.

~~~
srean
Now, if it were contaminated water in mandir's offering to the devotees, the
same party would be falling over themselves to proclaim it is pristine and
then hound the health officials no end, branding them as unpatriotic,closet
Pakistani etc etc. So it goes.

------
Rakshith
This thread is a display of the lack in self respect many Indians have. Their
public humiliation of the country that they live in, that they're right now
eating their food and breathing their air in. No, it does not help anyone let
alone yourself if you think your experiences are true account for everyone
else and what you're saying reflects your stupidity, you don't deserve a
chance nor a better life because the moment something wrong happens, you will
be back to blaming the system, you don't even contribute to making it better
so what gives you the right to spin lies here? If this was Facebook I would
have ensured the public authorities would come to attention and have the
police knock on your door. So before you comment, think. think if what you're
going to say is useful at all and then do it. Part of me hopes that you're
doing it because you don't want more whites to come here and take your jobs
but I am familiar with the tone you complain like a 12 year old that it is
simply not the case. HN needs moderators to put away these children.

~~~
nate_meurer
Police should knock on our doors? Moderators should "put away these children"?

You're in the wrong place here. A look at your comment history tells me you
already know this.

------
mdns33
The whole of india is like a giant trash can. Indian here.

~~~
dhanainme
How does this add value to this discussion ? Indian here too :)

~~~
reacweb
As a foreigner, this anecdotal opinion helps me to understand Indian mindset.

~~~
mdns33
There is nothing anecdotal here. It was a way to summarize the problem we have
at large. As the comment above describes how he lives surrounded by garbage.
That's how the whole country is unfortunately.

------
xenadu02
I don't understand enough about how Indian government works to answer this
question: Why can't they lay down sewers and water supplies in urban areas, at
least to start with?

~~~
puranjay
Massive corruption at all levels.

I'll give you an example: the Delhi municipal corporation, the local body
responsible for all civil work in the country's capital, has more employees
than the Indian Air Force.

A municipal body has more employees than the country's _entire_ Air Force.

Of these, nearly half of employees are "ghost" employees. They don't exist
except on paper. Their wages go into the pockets of the local politicians and
employees.

India's corruption is mind boggling.

~~~
snerbles
To be fair, New York City also has more municipal employees than the United
States Air Force has active-duty personnel.

461,500 local NYC government employees -
[https://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/cesemp.asp](https://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/cesemp.asp)

456,452 USAF personnel (315,725 AD airmen, 140,727 civilian employees) -
[http://www.afpc.af.mil/Air-Force-Demographics/](http://www.afpc.af.mil/Air-
Force-Demographics/)

------
gjkood
Quick question. How is the issue of human waste processing done in large scale
temporary human accommodations such as a military forward operations base or a
large scale construction township?

Would it have the necessary sewage handling/treatment facilities built first
or are there temporary systems that can handle a sudden surge in the
generation of human waste away from any pre-existing sewage treatment
facilities?

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
You dig a hole. A deep hole. Away from water supplies. And then you shit in
the hole:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_latrine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_latrine)

------
morekozhambu
This is a very old post!!

~~~
yesprabhu
Its the current cover story report of Caravan magazine. How old it could be?

------
baahh3333
Please do not stereotype India. India is a very huge country. Not every part
of India is the same especially with cleanliness.

Kerala is a small state in India with the highest literacy level. There is no
open defecation in Kerala. Infact if you read about Kerala, you will be very
surprised how different it is from the rest of India.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model)

~~~
Rakshith
Yeah sure about it, which is why they do everything they can to seep into
Bangalore and migrate here so they can throw their trash here. If its so good,
just go back.

~~~
baahh3333
Sure about what ? 'they do everything' what ? migrate where ? go back where ?

I have no idea what you mean. Care to explain a bit ?

~~~
Rakshith
If you're not a Malyali, why are you shilling for them? AFAIK they are a clan
who only give a shit about each other.

~~~
baahh3333
I don't think this is a forum for these kinds of discussions. Please be more
civilized about it. Ironically, your handle has "shit" on it.

------
throwaway312312
Why is this surprising ? Modi entire term has been him acting too impulsively,
either for PR or by being misguided by his advisors.

I mean the man has no dignity; who brings up these issues publicly on an
international forum ?

Running water is not something you come across rural India very often. Toilets
are bound to stink. NO person in his right mind would use one.

This one move has even brought back manual scavenging jobs back to the poor
who have little access to education or power (literally and figuratively).
Skilling India, eh ?

Shaming your citizens for the complete uselessness of the state becomes
"statesmanship" ? Is this guy some colonial governor ? Frankly, Modi is a
disappointment to everyone.

Worse, his and the stupidity of his promoters will almost entirely destroy the
credibility of the nativist camp which supported him, for decades to come.

BJP has lived up to its name: Congress with a Cow (which is then smuggled to
the Butcher).

~~~
ahamedirshad123
Occupy Hacker News in a few hours. Bhakts are everywhere. Still can't digest
the fact how they conquered Quora. Hope they stay away from your post :)

~~~
sevensor
Please forgive my ignorance -- who are the Bhakts? I've been off Quora since
the interesting questions disappeared about two years ago.

~~~
amalantony06
Bhakths are devotees of Modi. "Bhakth" in Hindi/Sanskrit means devotee. They
are like the die hard Trump fans in the US.

They usually come in hordes and attack any content against Modi on the web
usually by unethical tactics like questioning your character/love for country,
down-voting, mass reporting, abusing and general trolling - whatever it takes
to shut the critics up.

Modi is part human and part mythical figure for the Bhakths - I kid you not
:).

~~~
sevensor
Thank you! You've provided a little more context to the Internet today!

~~~
baahh3333
Lets not forget why this man was denied visa to US in 2005.

"In 2005, Modi, an ardent Hindu nationalist and rising political star, was
denied a U.S. visa over accusations that he failed to stop religious pogroms
in which hundreds were killed, mostly Muslims, in the Indian state where he
was serving as chief executive. That decision to bar him now seems like
ancient history in both countries. "

[http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-us-india-
modi-201409...](http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-us-india-
modi-20140925-story.html)

~~~
webtechgal
For the sake of historical accuracy, he was a 'persona non grata' not just in
the US but also in some 27 EU member countries and in several other countries
around the world:

[http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-modi-still-a-persona-
no...](http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-modi-still-a-persona-non-grata-in-
eu-says-german-diplomat-1331057)

------
marze
I hope the government at least partially reaches its goals.

There are obviously infinite possible approaches to the problem. This is how
I'd solve it if I were the government:

Set up collecting points and pay a generous sum per gallon of poo.

The challenge would be to avoid fraud, but inspection combined with occasional
random audits and penalties might work. Or issuing tokens for using the
latrine.

~~~
mattnewton
This reminds me of this crazy Korean animated film called aachi and ssipak
where the government payed people in addictive candies for their waste, which
it used to produce electricity.

Like that film I would imagine the incentives would have unintended side
effects, like encouraging more manual scavenging. I think the money is better
spent on infrastructure and public outreach. The problem doesn't seem as much
that people want to relieve themselves outside, but that it is the best option
available to them right now.

~~~
marze
The free market works well generally, why not here? To try to reverse
generations of social tradition where only "lower" people are involved with
waste, the govt. should really pay high rates for waste, which would work to
reverse this tradition by elevating the social status of the workers involved.

You miss the point in any case. By paying for waste delivered (and perhaps
tokens to minimize fraud), you would create a cottage industry of portable
toilets, and solve the problem with one simple policy.

Another incentive based strategy would be to make cash bonuses to local
officials based on the fraction of residents in their district actually used
toilets. This could be measured by randomized surveys and spot checks.

All problems can be improved with properly designed financial incentives.

