

College grad: "I wish I’d gone to prison instead" - twism
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2009/05/college-debt-so-crushing-grad-says-i-wish-id-gone-to-prison-instead.html

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maukdaddy
What a stupid article. What's with the sudden rash of "Don't Go to College"
articles?

It is a WELL proven fact that people with college degrees earn far more during
their lifetimes than those without degrees. See the second page of this report
for a great graph: <http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf>

~~~
lethain
What that reports shows is that historically college has paid off, but even
with adjustment for inflation the cost of college has increased by 2.5 times
over the past 70 years ( <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition> has a
great chart showing how that varies across institutions, in some schools the
adjusted increase is much lower). Combined with the increased percentage of
Americans attending college (from <%5 circa 1940 to nearly 30% now,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_attainment.jpg>), I think it's
disingenuous to rely on data based on the relative success of those who
attended college 40 or 50 year s ago to someone who is graduating from college
today.

College is more expensive and having a degree is much more common. Because of
these factors, although I do think lifetime wage for college graduates will
continue to outpace non-graduates, I also think that the relative payoff will
decrease.

Apologies for over-reliance on wikipedia, it is remarkably hard to find
quality sources in a minute or two. ;)

~~~
abyssknight
My bachelors degree was paid for by the Florida lottery, and the school paid
me an extra $8,000 just to choose them. The cost of college is relative to the
effort you put in prior to applying.

I honestly enjoyed college, and the experience I gained by going through it
was invaluable. I didn't party. I didn't drink. I went to class every day,
worked at a small web development shop when I wasn't in class, and I took it
all in. I graduated on time, and with the knowledge that it had all been well
worth it. That was college for me.

College is what you make of it. If you go into it hating the establishment,
you're going to drop out. The school I went to had a foundation exam for CS
students after their first 2 years. Basically, it filters out those who knew
the material (or were passionate enough to study and take it 3 times, yes that
was me) and those who were just doing the degree for a piece of paper. It
works.

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phn1x
I'm getting tired of people bitching about not coming out of school with a 6
figure job and a house.

You chose the wrong degree You are too lazy to network and find another job
You'll be stuck in the warehouse forever

Stop bitching and change your own situation if you don't like it.

And he's 30, wtf? How long did he wait to go to college? or should I dare to
inquire, how long did it take to finish?

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menloparkbum
At the end of the article it reveals that the guy is 30. Unless he went to
school very late, there are probably other reasons he's underemployed. It's
hard to believe he couldn't have found an accounting job over the past 7
years.

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swombat
Going to prison can still be arranged if Mr Castillo really wants to give it a
try. I can think of a few ways he could make his way there, and none of them
require any qualifications.

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rml
I think we shouldn't underestimate the fact that kids are told over and over
by teachers, guidance counselors, etc., "Go to college." These (well-meaning)
people often don't realize that what worked for them twenty years ago might
not be relevant anymore. In many parts of the U.S., there just isn't that much
productive industry (of whatever kind) to support all these new graduates.

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rdj
Yes, he's whining. But the undertone seems to be that he is crushed by debt to
the point his life feels worthless. Therefore instead of spending those years
only to accumulate debt, he is feeling he could have done just as well sitting
in prison, for free.

I think the bigger issue is that people assume going to college leads to
getting a job which leads to making more money. In this case, the whiner is
stuck because the formula failed for him.

If we could somehow flip the conventional thinking into, going to college
leads to building a solid foundation of perseverance and problem solving which
can then be applied and traded for something you value, then things would be
different. The whiner would then have a new formula which is observe the
situation, solve the problem using a vast array of possible solutions and
trade for something of value.

The problem in this case.. he can't seem to figure out how to get out of a
warehousing job in a down market.

Sad.

~~~
phn1x
not for nothing, but if he's crushed by debt why is he only working a
warehouse job.

Deliver pizza or work a second job, use that extra income to rapidly pay down
the debt.

~~~
marcusbooster
Working at a warehouse and delivering pizza to pay off $35,200 would take
years, and effectively make his degree worthless by the time he finished.

Declare bankruptcy, bootstrap your own biz, and wait out the next 7 years and
he'll be good to go.

~~~
phn1x
It would not take years.

Practicing frugality and taking every last dollar would help the problem. He's
got like 7k worth of credit card debt, which could be paid off in as little as
6 months if he really busted his ass delivering pizza at night. This is
assuming he pulls in roughly 250 a week in tips and wages. and continues
paying his 300 a month towards the credit card.

Continuing, once the CC is paid off he will take that pizza delivery money and
the 300 he has been paying and "snowball" that into the pay off of student
loans.

Listen to Dave ramsey's show and it's amazing some people pay upward to 45k in
debt off in a matter of 18 months on a 24k salary. It's entirely possible if
you have determination, but I don't think this guy does.

~~~
ibsulon
Right now, it's even hard to get a pizza delivery job.

An acquaintance of mine has been searching for an engineering (not
programming) job for months out of college and was excited to get a paper boy
job. (He's okay financially due to an understanding fiance, but worried that
he will never end up in the field.)

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keefe
It's not colleges fault this guy is an idiot. Shame on msnbc trolling.

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edw519
"landing a job as an accountant"

"I wish I had gone to prison"

What's the difference?

~~~
kyro
What a stupid comment. Where I come from, accounting is a fairly semi-
successful occupation. Lots of people I know in my community are accountants,
who love it, and are leading really happy lives. Just because there are people
who don't aspire to be independent, let's run the show, I am my own boss,
entrepreneurs, and would opt out for something a bit safer and more stable,
doesn't mean they're accepting a prison-like lifestyle. Your childish,
baseless, and condescending comment is actually quite offensive.

You'd think someone as old as yourself would know that there's more to life
than a job.

And you'd think these types of garbage comments wouldn't get upvoted. To be
honest, it's not even that witty.

~~~
edw519
Lighten up, kyro. It was a little witty, wasn't it?

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cates
what a whiner. there's no place for whiners in this world. no wonder he's
stuck at his warehouse job. and yes, i am one to speak. i graduated college in
2001, in the midst of the dot com bust and graduated with no job awaiting me
either. i stuck with it, and made it work due to my passion. if i can do it,
so can everybody else. i'm sorry, but complainers disgust me. they should go
cry to their mommys.

~~~
mononcqc
"if i can do it, so can everybody else." No matter how many people try to
become the president, there won't be enough time to let millions of people be
the president during their life.

Of course the scale is wildly different with education and employment, but one
should consider the environment and context of the other when making such a
statement. No matter how hard you try, there will always be things you can't
control; sometimes, they'll be massive blockers.

That "you just don't want enough -- that's why you fail" attitude can be
insulting at best.

Edit: I'm not advocating dropping out of college. I'm currently working as a
web dev during the day and studying on weeknights, specifically because I
believe in education leading to better conditions (and I love learning as a
whole). I just believe it's wrong to assume that if the formula works for me,
it should work for everybody else.

