
Geohot seeking donations for legal defense against Sony. - elliottcarlson
http://geohot.com/#2/19/2011
======
cookiecaper
He mentions that the EFF isn't taking on the full load of the case, but maybe
he'd get more donations if EFF acted as an intermediary and managed the
donations for him. He mentions several times questions like "Why should I
trust you?", and his answer, "I'm very ethical", is not that reliable in and
of itself. If the EFF sets up a fund, we wouldn't have to worry about
suspicions about the use of the money and Geohot wouldn't have to worry about
whether certain things qualify as "legal expenses" or outright temptations to
misuse the fund.

He may also be able to circumvent PayPal fees, ultimately giving him more
money, and he won't have to worry about transferring the remainder to the EFF
at the end of it all.

I think that if the EFF won't assume such an important case completely, they
could at least help out with some payment processing.

~~~
kuroir
People trusted him by using his hacks and information; betting expensive
hardware and most of them didn't end up bricking them.

If they don't trust him now with 5 bucks; then it may be true that they're
just in for the piracy.

------
elliottcarlson
I'm donating - what Sony is doing is illegal. I understand that his work has
lead to the option of piracy, and I fully support Sony's decision to ban
consoles that have been modified from their online network - however the legal
battle against geohot and team fail overflow is wrong.

Bottom line; this is a worthy fight to wager and my money will help support
it.

~~~
rorrr
As much as I support geohot and dislike DMCA, I'm pretty sure releasing code
that circumvents security (and especially the one that causes financial loss)
is still illegal.

<http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#a>

<http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#a2>

<http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/openlaw/DVD/1201.html#b>

There's one exception - circumvention is allowed only for security testing
purposes, but I doubt he would be able to successfully use that clause.

~~~
steipete
so how is this different to jailbreaking an iPhone?

~~~
eli
Well, first, I'm not sure it is legal to jailbreak an iPhone, but to answer
your question it's different because the US Copyright office said so.

There's a specific exemption to the anticircumvention provision of the DMCA
for "Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute
software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole
purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been
lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset."

<http://www.copyright.gov/1201/>

~~~
radq
It is legal to jailbreak an iPhone in the USA. Jailbreaking was added to a
list of exemptions to the DMCA last year.

[http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-
jail...](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-
jailbreaking/)

~~~
eli
Uh, yeah, I quoted that exemption. But it is NOT an absolute right. If you
jailbreak an iPhone for the purpose of e.g. using pirated apps (which I
imagine many people are) then you are committing a crime even if you haven't
pirated anything yet.

~~~
drstrangevibes
absolutely! if you look back you can see that geohot never intended to enable
piracy on the platform

~~~
eli
The PS3 isn't a phone. The exemption doesn't apply.

~~~
elliottcarlson
Correct, the argument, and also the reason he should be supported, is that it
should be. We bought it, we should do with it as we wish (as long as it's not
causing financial loss due to piracy etc).

~~~
eli
Hey, I'm totally with you. But just because you don't like a law doesn't make
it not a law. I think the DMCA is here to stay unless and until Congress fixes
it.

------
d_r
A side question. If we donate, what stops PayPal from randomly "freezing" his
account and holding the money hostage, as they have on a number of other
occasions for people having a "Donate" link?

~~~
notyourwork
Nothing. This is why I do my best to not use paypal. Once it happens to you,
you will understand my view point on this.

------
cheald
Donated, and I don't even have a PS3. However, I vehemently believe in the
user's right to do whatever he wants to his own hardware.

------
archangel_one
Just donated. I wish there was someone better than Paypal for this; I can't
see any good reason why it should take several tries for me to guess my own
phone number. "Please enter a valid telephone number" is NOT a helpful error
message!

~~~
dustinchilson
The error message may not be helpful but it also is worded to stop attackers
from narrowing down the possible phone numbers to use.

ex. they tell you the number starts with a 9. The attacker cuts the number of
phone numbers to try in a brute force attempt.

Yes, there are better ways to do this but this method works to an extent and
for most people it is quite easy to remember their phone number.

------
kirubakaran
Donated. I am saying so here because I donated seeing the comments of other
people.

------
steve19
I just donated. I don't own a single Sony device but this fight is far bigger
than just Sony PS3s.

------
antirez
Just donated, this is not just a matter related to gethot but also a matter of
freedom. Soon or later we should try to win the battle and have an
international law stating that once you get some hardware you can put any kind
of software inside that hardware, exactly like you can cut everything you like
when you purchase scissors.

------
daniel_reetz
Donated.

Look at it this way. Sony has repeatedly fucked me as a consumer. Rootkits,
copy protection schemes, fucking memory stick. I put thousands of dollars into
Minidisc before I gave up.

Now, geohot. Well, this guy gives me free code and insight into the Kinect
sensor. Helps a bunch of people openly enjoy the capabilities of the hardware
they own. This isn't even about trust- this is about a big contributor being
harassed by bullies. I know what side I'm backing. Cash to EFF, cash to
geohot.

------
MattBearman
I donated, I don't own any Sony hardware anyway, but this is cause I really
care about. If Sony were to win it could open a shit storm of similar activity
from other manufacturers.

------
fleitz
Looks like anon is in on the action as well.
[http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WU1zd4CPT4Q/TWBKrBauwYI/AAAAAAAAAe...](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WU1zd4CPT4Q/TWBKrBauwYI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/TCnKRY47vFc/s1600/boycottsony.png)

I've donated.

~~~
civilian
I'm kinda disappointed in Anonymous. I figured there would be more calling of
the homes of Sony Vice Presidents at 2am from an Anon raid. I guess there's
still time. (Donated)

------
rheide
While I'm morally completely against Sony's point of view, I'm not sure if
there's much that can be done legally. Besides that, I'm a bit unsure about
donating to a guy who does not seem to realize what kind of mess he's in:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUvuaChDEg>

------
kamidev
Just donated. I don't own a PS3 but consider this case important.

I stopped buying any kind of Sony hardware years ago, the first word that
comes up in my mind when I hear Sony is "lock-in". Obviously, they don't care
that their brand is already tainted in the eyes of many technical people. But
losing this kind of lawsuit would be harder to ignore.

------
Klonoar
Fuck it, donated; why not?

------
jefe78
Is there a way we contribute without our wallets?

~~~
russell_h
Not that its going to do Geohot much good, but I for one won't be purchasing
another Sony product, ever.

~~~
rikthevik
Agreed. I'm still so upset about the Minidisc. I picture the engineers making
this wonderful product and the legal team just crushing them over and over,
making them cripple their own beautiful creation. Very sad. :(

------
felixge
Donated as well. I don't own or care about the PS3, but Sony must not win
this.

------
_prototype_
Just donated. Let the battle begin.

------
rymngh
im also donating, this fight will determine the future of console systems

~~~
orangecat
And it's more than just game systems. Phones and tablets will likely be
replacing traditional PCs for most uses in the next several years, and
according to Apple and Microsoft those devices are "consoles" too.

------
shiven
Donated. My way of voting against DMCA in general and SCEA in particular. The
disenfranchised can only vote with their dollars, and if they can, they
should.

------
dark_c
I'm a poor college student with no PS3, yet I donated. It's up to the court to
decide this war but the armies should be equal.

------
eitland
This can easily turn into the

    
    
        SCEA vs The Internet 
    

case

~~~
fleitz
Is V for Vendetta a sony title?

------
rfugger
I hope he gets enough donations to countersue.

------
pluies
Donating. I don't have a PS3 either, but jailbreak should be legal and I hope
this can set a good precedent.

------
nhooey
Donated.

I've never donated to anything like this, but Sony's actions are fundamentally
corrupt and if unchallenged, will set a terrible precedent for all of us, and
severely hurt this individual.

------
mashingkeys
donated.

this hack opened a world of possibilities for my PS3 that Sony had closed with
the removal of Linux.

------
johng
Donated a $50 spot.

------
lyime
Donating.

------
steipete
donated. next: hack my ps3.

~~~
joelackner
i like the cut of your jib, sir.

------
drstrangevibes
I'm donating

------
drstrangevibes
in law i believe people can join themselves to an action if the outcome will
directly effect them, perhaps this is what the internet community should
do..... completely open source the case

------
DisposaBoy
So the only options if I want to donate are:

* Use Paypal

* Initiate communication (via email)

No thanks.

~~~
verysimple
You know, nowadays opening a random one-time email account takes less than 5
minutes. Just go to hotmail and register as oks03wsdjf. You can do that and
find out how you can donate.

~~~
DisposaBoy
I think you miss the point. I don't want to communicate with anyone in order
to donate anything to them. There are plently other options out there than
Paypal so why are they not offered.

~~~
verysimple
Dude, I'm just another HN reader who decided to support this cause. If you
made a point in your original message, I most certainly did miss it. You have
issues with paypal and email? That's your prerogative. Maybe Geohot didn't
expect people to have both these problems.

~~~
DisposaBoy
Obviously you can't read(you keep mentioning email when i've already adressed
it entire issue in my second post) so I see no point in continuing this
discussion.

downvote away if it makes you feel like a bigger man.

~~~
jasonlotito
> Obviously you can't read

Please leave the childish insults at the door. Misunderstandings happen, but
insulting someone for it is wrong.

> so I see no point in continuing this discussion.

If the only thing in your comment is an insult, a statement about ending the
discussion, and karma, it's a poor comment and you should just not write it.

> downvote away if it makes you feel like a bigger man.

This comment should be down voted. It's a poor comment by any standard. It
offers nothing to the conversation, is rude, and far below HN standards.

You're new here, so I just wanted to take the time to explain why these types
of comments are bad for HN and to try and help you improve. I hope it does. =)

~~~
kls
_You're new here, so I just wanted to take the time to explain why these types
of comments are bad for HN and to try and help you improve. I hope it does._

Yes we are nice to each other here, it is kind of the golden rule. There are
plenty of sites for technical dogma battles and less than civil discourse. HN
is not one of those sites. It is what makes it what it is, and we are kind of
fanatics about it staying that way. There are too many of the other sites and
HN is kind of different, we like it that way and want it to stay that way.

