
Barack Obama: America Will Take the Giant Leap to Mars - DarkContinent
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/opinions/america-will-take-giant-leap-to-mars-barack-obama/index.html
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AndrewKemendo
Just a quick flashback to President George Bush circa January 2004 [1]:

 _Our second goal is to develop and test a new spacecraft, the crew
exploration vehicle, by 2008, and to conduct the first manned mission no later
than 2014._

[1][http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/54868main_bush_trans.pdf](http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/54868main_bush_trans.pdf)

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ap22213
What happened to that? Lack of funding?

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InclinedPlane
It was a typical flags and footprints mission without much thought given to
cost, so it ended up having a sticker price of about a trillion dollars, give
or take. Congress hated it so much that they curtailed even the hint of talk
about a Mars mission by NASA for well over a decade.

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internaut
Come on brah, you can 'lose' a couple of trillion down the backseat of the
sofa at the Pentagon but you lose your shit when NASA asks for a mere 1
trillion dollars spread over a number of years?

I feel pretty tall from this horse. Even the horse is feeling pretty
aristocratic about the whole affair.

~~~
logfromblammo
In fact, I didn't even blink when you implied that the military brass have
sofas _with back seats_.

Who else would have a couch _with an entire other couch bolted to the back of
it_? At only 15x the cost of one normal couch, too.

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internaut
For a hidden camera prank I want to go into the Pentagon's reception area,
find a couch, and then struggle to pull out one of those enormous cheques with
a lubricious number of zeros on it. Maybe I could even get some people in
uniforms to help me yank it out.

I would then finish by galloping (bearing the cheque) into the sunset on an
empty road, and at the top of a mighty hill I would yank the reins and the
horse would paw the air with its front hooves as I wave the cheque in triumph.

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anindha
Trying to go to Mars is equivalent to the explorers in the 1500-1700s
discovering other continents. History has shown it was a good idea.

We won't know the benefit of going to Mars until 100s of years after we do it.

~~~
tdaltonc
I don't think it took 100's of years for people to figure out that a continent
teaming cod, timber, and beavers might be a good place to set up trade.
Grated, early on, they thought it was a continent full of gold and spices.

I don't know what the analogous economic engine could possible be on Mars. If
Mars is going to grow, we need to be able to imagine someone saying "I'm
moving my family to Mars in search of a better life. I just don't see that
happening. Series or L2 station? Sure, someone has to refine the iridium
before we send it down the gravity well. But why would an entrepreneur want to
set up shop on Mars?

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ipince
> why would an entrepreneur want to set up shop on Mars?

? New environment, new markets, new needs = lots of new and potentially huge
opportunities. I'm asking myself the complete opposite question.

~~~
ars
There's nothing there. Did you setup shop on Antarctica? No? That's because
there's nothing there. Same with Mars.

Go for the knowledge, but as far as ordinary human things are concerned there
is no reason to go.

Until you can make an economic case for settling the poles you won't be able
to make one for Mars - and the poles are LOT easier to live on BTW.

We have a base on the poles for the same reason we'll have one on Mars.

~~~
krisroadruck
You can't set up shop in Antarctica because its forbidden by the antarctic
treaty, which is backed by 32 Nations. If you think people wouldn't be
conducting business there if given the option, you've somehow managed to
overlook every other corner of the world where its not prohibited. Mining
businesses. Tourism/adventure companies. Setting up stores, bars, and other
entertainment venues to supply tourists and miners with things to do and stuff
to buy. These are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head that
would be happening in Antarctica if it weren't patently illegal.

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planteen
Two countries close to Antarctica, Chile and Argentina, are not signatories to
the Antarctic Treaty and have territorial claims. Both of these countries
already have a decent amount of natural resource extraction (especially
Chile), so one would reason that if it is worth mining, they would be.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Antarctica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Antarctica)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Antarctic_Territory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Antarctic_Territory)

One could also look at the interior of Greenland, which is Danish territory.
No serious development of any kind occurs there - it's all along the coasts.

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anexprogrammer
Er, Chile and Argentina are original Treaty (1959) signatories, and dispute at
least some of Britain and France's claims, and vice versa.

The treaty sets aside territorial claims whilst it's in force. All the claims
for all countries are still there, just neutered.

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planteen
You are right. Not sure how I missed that

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marvin
Probably not a coincidence that this announcement arrives barely a week after
SpaceX's absurdly ambitious Mars architecture announcement.

It's a good bet that any politician meaning business about this will award
numerous private contracts as part of the initiative. SpaceX intends to make
manned exploration of Mars a lot cheaper than NASA has ever suggested
possible, and cost is the main factor.

~~~
chubot
Yeah I was surprised to see that he didn't mention SpaceX anywhere in the
article. It seems that Elon usually pays tribute to NASA -- he did in his Mars
announcement.

It seems like if there are only two entities trying to go to Mars, and they
work together through a contracting relationship, then it makes sense to
mention the relation to the other one.

Otherwise I'm just left confused about the two efforts.

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amckenna
He didn't call out ULA or any private company. It gets tricky to call out
specific companies in a broad statement like this one.

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neximo64
Politicians and the desire of legacy.

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wmeredith
If only we would feed the space industrial complex as we do the military one.
_sigh_

~~~
chrisdbaldwin
We need to be a peaceful species if we ever hope to commune with ETIs and
unlock the inner mysteries of the universe. According to Edgar Mitchell, the
ETIs will not tolerate violence. Zero point energy is too powerful to entrust
to warmongering space pirates (like us).

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clarkevans
The relatively tiny budget spent on NASA is well spent -- the research opens
minds, understanding of physics, and even commercial opportunity.

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Sir_Cmpwn
Would have been nice to hear this earlier than the final minutes of his
presidency. I have no faith that either of his possible successors give a damn
about Mars.

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blisterpeanuts
I'd have given his words more credence if he hadn't canceled the Constellation
project in 2010 [1].

It was in fact part of his original campaign platform in 2008 to cut funding
to Nasa to pay for a national day care program. The day care never really got
off the ground, but he did succeed in cutting Nasa's budget, forcing a lot of
projects to shut down.

I'm glad to hear he's had a change of heart about space, though it sounds as
though he's counting on the private sector to do a lot of the work. And, of
course, it means diddlysquat given that he's retiring in three months.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program)

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lifeisstillgood
>> sitting on my grandfather's shoulders, waving a flag as our astronauts
returned to Hawaii.

>> More than 1,000 companies across nearly all 50 states are working on
private space initiatives.

These are my takeaways - the reason we do the hard things is because of a
child like sense of wonder.

And the reason we will succeed is because 1,000 companies is a _lot_. And I
bet I am not the only HN'er wanting to be one of the next ones, to buy into
the dream.

Just take lots of tomato ketchup in case.

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fitzwatermellow
Wasn't clear if The President is referring to the NASA Orion Space Lunch
System?

The GAOs latest report suggested it would miss its 2018 first test launch due
to technical challenges (software-related):

[http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-16-620](http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-16-620)

~~~
Kliment
I know it's a typo but I'm amused by NASA considering the difficulties of
space lunch.

~~~
ajford
Hey now, have you tried any of that Astronaut Ice Cream? It's horrible!
Clearly they need to improve space lunch!

~~~
Kliment
In fact, I have, and I quite enjoyed the texture.

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markdog12
> Editors Note: Barack Obama is President of the United States.

Thanks

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gxs
That line was more so for people who stumble upon that article in 5 years, not
necessarily for those reading today.

~~~
toggle
I thought it was a joke, suggesting that everyone is so caught up with the
presidential election, they may have forgotten who the current one is. I
thought it was pretty funny. :P

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fail2fail2ban
We aren't close to ready for Mars. We need a base on the moon.

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drakonandor
The gravity and atmosphere of Mars make it a more ideal candidate.

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snarf21
True but isn't the big problem self sustaining food, water and breathable air?

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drakonandor
Sure, but this conversation was Mars vs. the moon. The only argument the moon
has going for it is that it's a short trip.

Mars does have a reasonable atmosphere (albeit not breathable, it's mostly
CO2), and therefore does have some hope to be terraformed to earth-like
levels. We will probably have to use closed systems (greenhouses with water
recycling) until we heat the planet up a bit and get it back to the state it
was when it had running water and precipitation.

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JumpCrisscross
I believe this bill cancels our no-commerce-in-space obligations under the
Outer Space Treaty - American companies may now lay claim to and develop
celestial objects.

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rayuela
Where does it say that? That would actually be a huge deal...

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JumpCrisscross
Never mind, it may have been effectively nullified by the Space Act of 2015
[1]. It's a bit schizophrenic, however.

One section states "a United States citizen engaged in commercial recovery of
an asteroid resource or a space resource under this chapter shall be entitled
to any asteroid resource or space resource obtained, including to possess,
own, transport, use, and sell the asteroid resource or space resource obtained
in accordance with applicable law, including the international obligations of
the United States."

Section 403, meanwhile, confirms that "it is the sense of Congress that by the
enactment of this Act, the United States does not thereby assert sovereignty
or sov- ereign or exclusive rights or jurisdiction over, or the ownership of,
any celestial body."

[1]
[https://www.congress.gov/114/plaws/publ90/PLAW-114publ90.pdf](https://www.congress.gov/114/plaws/publ90/PLAW-114publ90.pdf)
_See Title IV Space Resource Exploration and Utilization_

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sidcool
No mention of SpaceX. If they can collaborate, humans can go to Mars by 2025

~~~
palebluedot
I don't entirely disagree, but overall I think multiple independent endeavors
may be the most resilient approach.

In other words, collaboration may indeed the fastest path if all goes well,
but multiple independent efforts may be safer, with a higher probability of
success.

Independent approaches also allow for slightly different techniques and
technological approaches to the problem, which may have additional unknown
benefits later on.

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TeMPOraL
One does not preclude another. As long as all parties involved share
knowledge, they can pursue different paths while at the same time speeding up
each others' efforts.

~~~
palebluedot
True, that would probably be the ideal scenario - independent yet
collaborative.

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btown
The Destiny of Earthseed / Is to take root among the stars.

"[God is] change we can believe in."

------
helthanatos
Even if Mars worked, it would be terrible for the Earth because it would give
the first real nuclear asylum. Should leaders be able to live somewhere
completely free of the threat of destruction, who knows what they'd do. Should
it work, it can greatly hurt the human race; should it fail, it was a waste of
money. I don't understand why people would be happy about this?

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hehheh
Serious? I honestly can't tell.

Do you think the only thing stopping leaders from killing billions is the fact
they might also die or be otherwise affected?

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euyyn
They must be so looking forward to life in the Mars desert!

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nickpsecurity
Let's fix education, healthcare, banking, infrastructure, inefficient
military, "warrior" policing, and prisons first. Then, if money is left over,
we can go to Mars or just subsidize American's vacation trips to interesting
places on this planet. :)

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bsilvereagle
I encourage you to spend some time perusing NASA Spinoffs:
[https://spinoff.nasa.gov/](https://spinoff.nasa.gov/)

Granted, NASA is slowly turning into a regulatory agency compared to being
purely technical, so we can't use the rate of technical advancements in the
past to predict the future. However, I think NASA is one of the handful of
federal agencies where I stand to see tangible benefits from my tax dollars.

~~~
nickpsecurity
I know about them. I just prefer the next initiative dealing with major
problems with long-term ROI for the country. They can never seem to put money
and effort into those things but they can go to Mars. (Rolls eyes)

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chiph
Props to Andy Weir and his book _The Martian_.

Like how _Star Trek_ inspired a generation of engineers and rocket scientists,
his book is inspiring another generation to go even further.

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nadezhda18
Kennedy: We choose to go to the Moon

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cndjdjvjjdnd
And yet any sort of program that gets fleshed out right now will get trashed
in about three months time when he leaves office and congress turns over. Yay,
political infighting and sabotage!

~~~
justin66
That NASA cannot plan reliably past the next budget actually affects a lot of
things very negatively.

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dingo_bat
To all those questioning the need to go to Mars: because it's there.

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meira
II Cold War has just begun and Obama is already trying to finish it with the
same old move?

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yolesaber
The Cold War didn't end in 1969

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pferde
Translation: we discovered vast amounts of oil on Mars.

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throwaway729
That would be an absolutely _fantastic_ reason to go to mars, because it
almost certainly indicate the existence of large quantities of life on mars at
some point in the past.

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JackFr
Or evidence for
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin)

~~~
throwaway729
Interesting, thanks!

I get the impression from the wiki article that, so far, these are well-
studied but rejected theories re: sources of petro and gas on earth. It's
unclear to me, though, whether that's because of _essential_ reasons that
would apply to other systems, or just a historical happenstance specific to
earth.

