
I know how hard it would have been to escape the helicopter crash in NYC - Erlangolem
http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/19175/5-people-died-in-a-helicopter-crash-in-new-york-citys-east-river-on-march-11-i-was-there
======
CydeWeys
It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they banned sightseeing
helicopter flights entirely. They were already banned from overflying
Manhattan decades ago after a particularly fatal crash, and serious crashes
continue at an average rate of one per year, including one in 2009 that killed
nine.

The most unappreciated aspect of the helicopters' impact, though, is the
_noise_. They ruin the possibility for enjoyment of the waterfront for a
several block radius around every pier that they use. When you run or bike
past the piers along the waterfront you have to stop your conversation,
they're that loud. And the combustion vapors they're giving off aren't
pleasant either.

It really would contribute to the greater safety and enjoyment of all if they
fully got rid of these flights. At least get their launch sites away from
Manhattan, where they spoil the peaceful enjoyment of huge swaths of public
waterfront.

~~~
Scoundreller
Indeed, almost all flight traffic over the city of Paris is prohibited.

Exceptions exist fo military and medevac. Not sure if they even have police
helicopters.

Has been since the world war.

It results in some interesting flight paths for jetliners.

~~~
mshook
It's a common misconception: not all flights are forbidden.

Yes, almost all flights are forbidden above Paris, unless you're above 2000m
(6600 ft) and you're a regular airliner or military transport...

[https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFT...](https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000251477)

------
code4tee
For many of the reasons mentioned in this article the FAA has now banned
certain types of these “doors off photo flights.”

This sort of thing is intended for professionals with extensive training on
the harnesses—in some cases including actual dunk tank training where you’re
actually thrown in the water and need to escape (with safety divers present).

A lot of companies then started cutting corners and just pulling people off
the street and showing them a “safety video” and sending them up. No way is
that adequate training and the episode last weekend sadly demonstrates that
fact.

Had it not been for the harness design and lack of adequate training it’s
extremely likely everyone would have walked a way a bit wet and cold but
otherwise unharmed.

~~~
lttlrck
I did this training when I was a cadet in Air Training Corps. It petrified me,
I did the standard dunk but bailed before the dunk and inversion attempt. I am
not a strong swimmer, they had rescue divers there, no way.

Being strapped into a container slowly filling with water rushing in through
various orifices is a horrible feeling. And having to wait for the water to
stop rushing in before unstrapping.

And I was in an indoor pool. Those poor people.

------
ColinWright
I've been on helicopters multiple times flying out to oil rigs. Never far
enough to have to get the certificate via the dunk test, but every single time
we wore a dry suit and watched the safety briefing.

Every time.

It's been a few decades, but to this day every time I'm in an aircraft, at
take off and landing I have one hand on the buckle, one arm pointing at the
escape route, feet tucked under, belt pulled _tight_ across my hips, head
pressed back.

This article reads all-too-true, and brings back many memories. Fortunately
none of my memories are of tragedies like this, but they do tell me that
accidents are by their very nature unpredictable. We do what we can to be
prepared.

Sometimes it's not enough.

------
ufmace
Interesting read. I have taken the full dunk tank helicopter egress training
for working on offshore oil rigs. We didn't have the tethered harness bit, but
did have to open a door/hatch and climb out while upside-down underwater. I
think there may have been a quick-release seat belt, but I'm not completely
sure.

That training didn't bother me much, I think mostly because I had grown up
swimming daily, have been surfing, snorkeling, and SCUBA diving, and am pretty
comfortable and confident in the water. It took a while for me to realize that
many people are deeply terrified of being dunked in water, and may panic and
do any number of strange things. It makes me wonder if any reasonable amount
of training can really make you ready for that. Or if I would also be in way
over my head [sic] in an actual crash - it was occasionally pointed out that
in actual over-water helicopter crashes, usually everyone dies regardless of
what sort of training is involved.

It does make it seem a bit crazy that they're flying random tourists around
like this without even a practice run at how to detach their harness tether or
knowing whether they can even swim at all. The release method being to pull
out some sort of knife that's supposedly attached to the harness and use it to
cut the tether seems a bit crazy too. The author has no idea exactly what kind
of knife or exactly where it is, which says a lot about their pre-flight
training. How many people will fumble the knife, cut themselves, stab random
things, etc trying to cut a tether while in a rapidly sinking helicopter? They
should have some sort of quick-release that's easy to grab and uses one simple
motion, and that they practice releasing several times.

------
devit
Expecting random customers to use a knife to free themselves when either in
unexpected freefall or underwater without having ever tried it in training
seems indeed highly insane.

Why not use normal safety belt buckles, plus ideally an electronic autorelease
system that the pilot can trigger?

~~~
LeifCarrotson
The main purpose of the harnesses, which is tested and used on every single
flight, is to prevent the passengers from becoming free of the harness and
free of the helicopter. It was only through a highly unlikely combination of
both a loss of power and a failure of the float system that they would ever
need to release the harness.

You don't not wear your seatbelt in case it becomes jammed when you drive into
a lake - that just doesn't happen very often. But people get in normal, on-
road car accidents all the time: it would be silly to optimize either of these
systems for easy release when the main purpose is for them not to release.

~~~
caconym_
Seatbelts _are_ optimized for easy release. They have a big red button and
using it is muscle memory for the vast majority of people who ride in cars.
This is good because there are a lot of conceivable situations in which one
might need to exit a car in a hurry. It's possible that a seatbelt or its
release might cause problems in some situations, but they're designed to make
this as unlikely as possible.

Strapping people into an aircraft such that they effectively cannot release
themselves in _any_ emergency is completely insane, and in this case it's a
decision that led to 5 deaths. If they can't design secure harnesses that can
also be easily released, or can't trust customers with such a responsibility,
then they shouldn't be running open-door flights at all.

------
xrayzerone
This is why the USAF has mandatory underwater egress training in which
aspiring helo crewmembers are dunked, inverted, and taught how to untether and
escape from inside a simulated fuselage.

------
nickthemagicman
What kind of a shoddy company lets a passenger harness TURN OFF FUEL TO THE
ENGINES?

Is that insane to anyone else?

~~~
HankB99
This was discussed on a recent "No Agenda" Podcast. Adam Curry is licensed to
fly helicopters and claims to have flown this model. He is insistent that this
explanation is wrong, that the lever pictured controls ignition retard and is
easily overridden by controls on the stick the pilot uses to control the
aircraft.

It makes no sense to me that there would be a fuel shutoff in reach of a
passenger that could cause the aircraft to crash. (Imagine telling passengers
"whatever you do,, don't pull this lever or we'll all die.")

~~~
pricechild
With the small size of a helicopter and passengers in the front seat, they are
certainly in range of many controls which could have that effect.

------
yardie
Why are these particular harnesses so user hostile? Boat harnesses are usually
double action caribeners so there is no need for a knife.

~~~
jdavis703
People don't want to become unbuckled and fall out the aircraft. Falling out
of a boat is far less scary (I've done it before and was able to easily swim
to shore).

------
JudasGoat
It would seem as though electric power could create a much safer helicopter.
An electric motor powering the rotor with the engine acting as a generator
much like a diesel locomotive. A smallish battery would give enough power to
descend safely in case of engine failure.

~~~
madengr
You can descend safely with engine failure; it’s called autorotation. Sounds
like they probably did so, but the floats were not properly inflated. Also a
harness catching a fuel shutoff switch; bad. So many small things that can go
wrong, compounding to fatalities.

~~~
elliottcarlson
You can even see, in captured footage, that it descends fine, and then starts
to turn to its side due to the floats not being properly inflated.

[https://twitter.com/JJmagers/status/972974463175286784](https://twitter.com/JJmagers/status/972974463175286784)
for the video.

------
ape4
Why can't the harness be designed to open without a knife?

~~~
larkeith
I'm not an expert, but it seems like harnesses are designed to be quite
difficult to remove, as accidentally doing so (or the strong downwash
turbulence of an open flight doing so) in an open-door flight would be almost
certainly fatal. The knife is kept as an emergency alternative to allow for
faster release than going through multiple buckles, not the primary method.

If I recall correctly, parachutes use a similar thing - in normal
circumstances, you simply unbuckle after landing, but in a foliage or water
landing, you can cut yourself out of the straps.

------
magic_beans
This was so horrifying to read. If only those three passengers hadn’t upgraded
their flights... they’d still be alive.

