
Ask HN: Why do companies do “remote within the US”? - bhollan
I&#x27;ve seen a sharp rise in companies that are 100% remote, but have a caveat that you have to be inside the United States.  Full disclosure, I&#x27;m an American living in Mexico for the time being.  I&#x27;ve had several companies stop the interview&#x2F;hiring process as soon as they find out I&#x27;m outside the US.  I&#x27;ve also seen hundreds of job postings say &quot;remote, within the US&quot;.<p>I was even employed part-time with a company that knew I was in Mexico and was OK with it, but then they got bought and I was terminated within months.  All my papers are in order, my US Passport is still good, my Mexican visa is fine, and I can&#x27;t honestly think of a reason why they can&#x27;t hire remote globally.  Am I missing something?  Is there a reason for this I don&#x27;t understand?  I have a US bank account, a US Passport, pay US taxes, and am a native English speaker.  Is there a blind spot that I can&#x27;t see?  Is it just simple &quot;policy&quot; that people made a blanket decision without facts?  Am I being unreasonable?<p>It seems like a reasonable thing to be upset over.  It feels like discrimination, and it is.  It&#x27;s called Geographic Discrimination, and when you&#x27;re talking about being a concierge for a hotel or a janitor or any other physical on-site job, that makes sense.  But I don&#x27;t understand why it should be legal to apply it to 100% remote jobs in 100% remote companies.
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rosspackard
International law is complex. Having a full-time employee located in another
country can lead to a lot of legal unknowns. At the very least this requires a
company to spend the money to understand if they are exposing themselves to
any international laws that are unknown to them. I am not a lawyer but have
run businesses in the past and legally that would scare the hell out of me.
Also, benefits were brought up by the other commenter but it wasn't addressed
in the legal context. How do ADA and FMLA and other benefits work when the
employee is living in another country? These are all questions that are a
burden on a company. Why should they legally have to shoulder the burden?

Having fully remote employees within the US is a large burden in and of
itself. It is very very hard unless a company has resources that can address
that. Each employee in a different state or location is basically treated like
a separate office. You are basically asking a company to open an office in
Mexico.

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mchannon
There are a number of reasons this goes on.

First and foremost is why remote is so slow to catch on everywhere. Every
manager has to deal with cognitive load, and a limited capability to exceed
it. Getting the money to hire somebody at a given rate is hard enough, but
then interviewing, weighing how much difficulty will be involved in day-to-day
managing this hire, is all factored in, and all adds to the cognitive load.

A lot of "100% remote" isn't. They want these hires, if for some reason it
became necessary, to be able to travel to the main office (and to travel to
meet them). They want to be able to pay them without any unanswered questions.
They don't want a cultural or language barrier. The fact is, even if you have
all these bases covered, and you are a US citizen, they have trouble taking
you at your word just because "foreign", and it's a load off to just tell you
no.

If someone emailed me a Mexican phone number, even though it may be as easy as
just punching it in, most managers would not want to.

Companies are set up to do US taxes, and don't want to deal with foreign
taxes. Even if Mexico has zero foreign tax filing requirements, the US
probably has a form to fill out.

A US PO box can cost under $20 per 6 months, and many of the cheapest ones are
along the US/Mexico border. Take a road trip and use that PO box as the
address on your resume. Have a phone number that doesn't require international
dialing. Don't lie about where you're from ("my mailing address is in
Phoenix") but if it's 100% remote (and you have good internet) it shouldn't
matter. You're a US citizen, and this would fix most of your problems.

I've had to deal with discrimination based on where I live, but at least I was
showing up to the physical office as agreed. In sum, don't make it hard for
them to see you as part of the organization they envisioned.

~~~
bhollan
I use [https://travelingmailbox.com](https://travelingmailbox.com). They're
great. Not super modern and hip, but certainly functional and affordable.

My employer doesn't have to pay Mexican taxes. _I_ don't even have to pay
Mexican taxes. They do US taxes just like for everybody else because my bank
account is in the States and I'm an American.

I use Skype and Google Voice. I can give out a US phone number and receive
calls just as though I were in the US.

It's just so very very frustrating.

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tlb
Having employees in a country means the company has to obey that country's
labor laws, pay taxes and social security. While Mexico's labor laws aren't
unreasonable, you basically need a second HR department to ensure compliance
with a second set of laws.

~~~
bhollan
That's not actually true in my situation. My visa requires that I not hold a
Mexican job. As long as I hold a job in another country and pay taxes in that
country, I owe zero taxes to the Mexican government.

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chatmasta
As mentioned by others, it's because of compliance headaches with payroll in
foreign countries. Next time this happens, I would recommend suggesting to
them that you work as a contractor on 1099. In that case, it's a way more
straightforward process for the employer because they just need to send you
money, and you handle all the compliance paperwork on your side. In fact it's
even easier for them than hiring a US employee.

~~~
bhollan
I've never thought about requesting to be transferred as a contractor. That
would mean I would have to pay my own taxes as in the self-employment
situation.

As was the case for my termination a few months ago, I actually WAS working as
a contractor, so that's not 100% foolproof.

I actually just recently heard about a guy who moved here. He told his boss,
and his boss's boss, who were both fine with it. Then when he told HR they
were like "no way, dude." But then both bosses told him "just tell HR you're
moving to Florida." LOL!

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jklein11
It might depend on the industry you are working in. I know some grants have
language which prohibits data from leaving the continental United States. I
think this is done to "protect US jobs."

~~~
bhollan
But if "protecting US jobs" means giving jobs to US Passport holders, THAT'S
ME! If it's protecting US tax income, THAT'S ME TOO!

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wprapido
Try working with startups, smaller companies or take roles where they don't
care. Also, no need to disclose your actual whereabouts as long as you can get
paid, sign contracts, pay taxes, are reachable at the US number, and can
travel as needed.

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jxub
Just a guess, but probably it's because of sharing the same timezone and
culture and where it's easy to set up payroll, benefits,... for the employee
in question.

~~~
bhollan
Y'konw, honestly, the time-zone thing I understand. If you're looking for
people to cover specific shift work for incoming tickets or events or
whatever, that makes sense. Just like on-prem jobs.

But I'm talking about totally asynchronous work that's just an assignment
given to you, and you turn it in completed later.

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gesman
To reduce risk.

As a manager, besides budget - the risk of delivering (or not) the project is
important.

The more remote, away from home timezone, less english speaking audience is
involved - the bigger the risks.

~~~
bhollan
I'm a born, bred, red-blooded American, dude. I've only been living in Mexico
for 3 years. My English is spectacular.

I'm even from Alabama and don't have an accent.

The risk of delivering or not shouldn't come from my geographic location. That
should be susses out in the interview process or probation period.

~~~
gesman
Big corps have more restrictions and legal risks that they are unwilling to
take.

Smaller corps has more flexibility.

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zerr
To deal only with people who can be easily sued.

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eip
Where in Mexico? And why tell anyone? Just say you live in the US and travel a
lot.

~~~
bhollan
I've tried this a few times. As much as it usually passes the buck to the next
interviewer at best, I would just rather be honest.

Especially when the company I'm currently pursuing lists 'trust' in their list
of 3 values.

