
Sleep as a Competitive Advantage - robg
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/sleep-as-a-competitive-advantage/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
======
rayiner
The key takeaway is this:

> The research is overwhelming that the vast majority of us require seven to
> eight hours of sleep to feel fully rested, and only a small percentage
> require less than seven.

I'm sometimes envious of people I meet that can function well with little
sleep, but I resign myself to the fact that I wasn't dealt that particular
card. You can't compete with those folks by simply trying to ape their habits.

~~~
viraptor
> Most of us have forgotten what it really feels like to be awake.”

This may be one part of it. Some time ago, I'd definitely tell you I'm fine
with little sleep. You can do it if you sleep very little every night. It's
quite easy to adapt to, for example during university exam times

But then after some years you realise you're not actually fine. You just don't
remember how different is it to sleep longer. I'm still fighting with myself
now to sleep for a reasonable time to reverse the old habit. I did tell people
I'm fine with little sleep before. I will happily tell them now that I was
lying - just didn't know it at the time.

~~~
incision
_> ' You just don't remember how different is it to sleep longer.'_

Exactly.

Not too long ago the combination of child, work and school forced me to
completely re-evaluate how I was spending my time and what is actually
important to me.

One big change I ended up making was getting to bed at the same time every
night and clocking a consistent 8 hours.

Within a week or so the difference was remarkable in both my mood and acuity
through the mid-afternoon - ideally I'd take a 45 minute nap around 13:30, but
that's not an option with my current job.

In order of effect, the best things I've ever done for day to day clarity:

1.) Going to bed and rising at consistent times with 8 hours inbetween.

2.) Drinking plenty of water. At least 8 ounces per waking hour for me.

3.) Regular exercise. I feel best lifting weights 3 or 4 days a week, but I
expect the specifics are less important than simple movement and exertion.

~~~
pyre
> At least 8 ounces per waking hour for me.

That's 3.8L per day [(24 hours - 8 hours sleeping) * 8 fl oz = 3.8L].
Recommended intake is 2-3L[1]. Just be careful of water poisoning...

[1] [http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-
healt...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/nutrition-and-healthy-
eating/in-depth/water/art-20044256)

~~~
Encosia
Unless I'm mistaken, water poisoning is only a credible threat when you
consume exclusively those high volumes of water and nothing else to raise the
salinity of the water in and around your cells. Over the course of a day, most
of us get (much) more than enough sodium from other sources to eliminate any
risk of water poisoning from 3.8L of water per day.

~~~
irremediable
Yeah -- similarly to you, I'm pretty convinced that water poisoning is only a
worry if you're unwell (mentally and/or otherwise) or do unusual things like
water-drinking competitions.

------
cheald
When I left my cubicle job to strike off on my own in 2007, one of the most
valuable lessons I learned was "sleep when you're tired".

7 years, a couple of businesses, and 2 (soon to be 3) kids later, I manage to
still be able to work and play very hard without feeling chronically tired or
burnt out, and I'm convinced it's because I sleep when I need to sleep (and
don't when I don't). If it's the middle of the work day and my body is saying
"sleep!", then I'll go take a 2-hour nap, which completely revitalizes me. If
I've been up for 20 hours and am still going strong, am thinking clearly, and
am not feeling tired, I stay up. Sometimes I sleep for 5 hours, sometimes I
sleep for 11.

(It's worth noting that this only works with kids because I have my wife's
support - she holds down the fort while I sleep, and visa versa. We play
active defense for each others' sleep.)

This has had a couple of effects. First of all, it means that whenever I'm
working, I'm actually _working_. I don't have those days where I just stare at
my screen blankly, unable to get any significant momentum like I did before.
Secondly, it made me able adapt to varying sleep needs (which is _amazingly_
helpful with kids). I'm not really on a particular circadian rhythm. On a
typical day, I might be up from 10 AM-2 AM PST, but then I'll travel back east
and the next day I'll be up from 3 AM-7PM PST without any real difficulty.

I realize that not everyone has the luxury of being able to take naps or sleep
for as long as they need it, but if you have some flexibility, start listening
to your body, rather than toughing it out from 9-5 "because that's what you're
supposed to do."

Also, as a side note: Use f.lux - when I started using it, I noted a _drastic_
shift in how I get tired. Before, I would just go and go until I hard-crashed;
now, I start feeling tired slowly over time, which makes it much easier to go
to sleep at the right time.

------
japhyr
I like to run long distances, half marathons and mountain runs. When I'm in
shape, I can run reasonably fast; I can get close to 7-minute miles on hilly
half marathons, and place in the upper quartile in mountain runs.

I have gone through some times in life where it's been really hard to sleep
properly. My kid is three years old now, and he still interrupts my sleep
patterns. I'm a teacher, and I never sleep enough during the busy time at the
start of each school year. When I'm not sleeping enough, I feel it in my
running. My muscles are fine, my cardiovascular system is fine, but something
isn't there. I can maintain my mileage, but when I try to push myself, I just
come up empty.

The best approach I've ever found to help me get enough sleep, was to get rid
of my alarm clock. Not using an alarm clock ensures that I get the most out of
the sleep that I do get each night.

~~~
AhtiK
Strangely I feel dizzy without alarm clock and it takes a bit too much time to
get to high energy. With alarm clock there's a certain rush to jump into
action.

I wish I had the same rush without an alarm clock.

~~~
vanderZwan
I know I'm going to state something obvious, but have you tried going to bed
earlier?

I've honestly met people who try to get up earlier, but don't realize the
easiest way to get up early (in the longer term, of course) is to catch sleep
early.

~~~
garrickvanburen
This.

It took me years to realize simply going to be easier was, not only the
obvious answer, but also the cheapest & most sustainable.
[https://garrickvanburen.com/archive/how-i-learned-to-get-
up-...](https://garrickvanburen.com/archive/how-i-learned-to-get-up-before-my-
kids/)

~~~
AhtiK
hah! Thank you for the link! Your experience definitely rings a bell -- I'm
now a father of a 6 months old and I did my fair share of experiments with Zeo
a few years ago.

By the way, there is a special firmware going around for Zeo that if installed
will store the data unencrypted and also enables sending "real-time" info to
the serial port located at the back of the device (I managed to read this data
successfully using a python script that was also provided).

If you're interested in that custom firmware and realtime data schematics&code
and not finding from the web, ping me and I'll look up from the archives!

For me wearing zeo more than 5 days in a row became unfomfortable, how long
did you use it constantly to get to this 6.30am wakeup time?

You mention 18 months but I guess it's not possible to wear the headband for
that many months in a row comforably?

~~~
garrickvanburen
Thanks. In my 18 months with the Zeo, I went through at least 5 headband
sensors. In that time I wore it all the days I was home - which was most days.

------
dang
Robg, who posted this, is a longtime HNer whose current startup makes a watch
that monitors your stress level. He wears the watch all the time and told me
that one of his biggest lessons from it so far was about sleep. Rob, do you
want to repeat that here? I thought it was interesting; maybe others would
too.

~~~
robg
Sure! It took me a decade as a neuroscientist to realize that sleep is the
inverse of stress. That's physiologically speaking - stress is the sympathetic
system; sleep is the parasympathetic system.

We're seeing a type of high stress sleep. We don't know what it means or why.
But the aim is to continue to drill in - a kind of citizen science of how
sleep and stress interact. What questions would folks what to see answered?

I discovered wearing our watch that naps are stress relieving for me. Others
see the same effect during meditation, and I wonder if that too is a form of
sleep, physiologically speaking.

EDIT: Since it got buried below, this study will turn out to be a huge
inflection point in terms of how sleep is understood and taught. Sleep appears
to wash away toxins that collect during the stressful day. Sleep seems to be a
form of garbage collection.
[http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2013/ninds-17.htm](http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2013/ninds-17.htm)

~~~
wainstead
I have been a fan of power naps for the past year or so; I work from home so
taking 25 minutes to nap in mid-afternoon is not a problem.

I just completed the program in "Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan" (Williams,
Penman) and found in those eight weeks I didn't feel a need to nap in the
afternoon. I just didn't get sleep late in the day.

~~~
robg
Our users who meditate report the same thing. What's really interesting to
consider whether like sleep, meditation helps open up the glymphatic system
for garbage collection.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glymphatic_system)

[http://www.nbb.cornell.edu/neurobio/Fetcho/NBBjournalclub/wa...](http://www.nbb.cornell.edu/neurobio/Fetcho/NBBjournalclub/warden-
paperfull.pdf)

------
socrates1998
Honestly, I think a bigger issue is what time we actually go to sleep.

I think a lot professionals just don't get to sleep on time for the required
7-8 hours.

If you get up at 6 or 7 in the morning, that means you are deep asleep by 10
or 11 pm.

I just don't think a lot of sleep deprived people are doing that.

At least that's alway been my experience.

~~~
rubicon33
This.

What's missing from this article, is a discussion about ideal sleep TIMES. Not
everyone is meant to sleep from 10-6. Yes, you can fudge your sleep cycle and
you can adjust, but only so much.

I'm naturally a night owl. With no alarm clock, and no obligations, I will
"naturally" fall asleep at 3am, and wake up at 11.

In times of my life when I've been able to do this, the 8 hours that I would
get then FAR TRUMPED the 8 hours I get now. It's night and day.

~~~
vanderZwan
> I'm naturally a night owl.

Many people are unnatural night owls, thanks to blue light sources in the
evening - perhaps that applies to you too. Have you tried f.lux?

[http://getflux.com/](http://getflux.com/)

~~~
makeset
Blue light may be interrupting sleep patterns, but I assume people who call
themselves night owls share with me a certain feeling of mental haze during
daylight hours, regardless of sleep schedule. I'm also about 5% weaker at
lifting maximal weights until late afternoon. For what it's worth, I don't
consume caffeine (allergic) and I do use f.lux.

~~~
dageshi
For what it's worth, in my opinion the haze = noise. During the day every
damned thing is causing too much noise, even if you block it out with music &
headphones it's still noise/distraction. So when you get to the evening and
definitely past midnight the ambient noise drops considerably, everything is
quiet and there's far less to subconsciously distract you.

~~~
steanne
it may be sensory overload, variant by person. for me, it's definitely light.
i feel fried and cranky within minutes of being in bright sunlight.

i use a program similar to flux and, while it's shifted going to sleep a
couple of hours earlier, i still have as much difficulty getting to work by 9.
maybe i'm still working through decades of deprivation.

------
jusben1369
It was explained to me that a small % of people can get by with less than 8
hours sleep. Those people then often move to the top of the org chart either
as founders or management in larger companies. Perhaps unsurprisingly, given
their lack of need for sleep, they're not big believers in the value of sleep
and napping. That's why you'll see these articles every 3 - 6 months and
nothing will really change.

~~~
adocracy
See my comment above - I think even "low sleepers" recognize the value of
sleep for clear thinking and emotional balance. I totally value napping.

------
logfromblammo
The problem is that Western culture, particularly the Anglophone subset, is
generally against sleep, equating the pursuit of adequate sleep--which vaies
by individual--with sloth or laziness. A sleeping person is very obviously not
working.

Through two acquaintance connections, I know someone who was assigned night
shift work, and then was fired for falling asleep on the job in the first
month. The employer made zero accomodations for the fact that he has human
employees, and that he put them into a constant state of war with their own
bodies to get his money. Pilots have to enlist the aid of regulators and
unions to get their airlines to recognize that pilot fatigue is not the
pilot's fault.

I suspect that this attitude was probably influenced by Anglo racism against
Hispanics, targeting the midday siesta custom. It is somewhat telling that to
get an Anglo to sleep around midday, you have to rebrand it as a "power nap",
and sell it as a late-day productivity booster.

People in our society can advance to positions of greater authority by
sacrificing biologically important things like sleep, leisure, and
companionship and temporarily compensating with drugs like caffeine, cocaine,
and prescription stimulants. Then they reach their acme, get the executive
position, and resume normal work and sleep patterns while pretending to
themselves that they could still work 120 hours every week. Then they reason
that since they were able to achieve greatness by temporarily sacrificing a
lot of sleep, everyone should be able to do a little better by sacrificing a
little permanently. They don't particularly care about the science, since they
have firsthand knowledge of their own meteoric rise and subsequent success.

Everyone else is stuck trying to defend against continual encroachment on the
40-hour work week, and they are forced to sacrifice sleep by necessity rather
than by choice.

------
austinz
"a person who is sleep deprived has no idea how functionally impaired he or
she truly is. Most of us have forgotten what it really feels like to be
awake."

I can attest to this. I went through a months-long phase where I got about
four to five hours of sleep a night, mostly because I was going to bed around
4 or 5 AM. Only after I began going to bed at a more reasonable time and
getting more sleep did I realize how much my mood had suffered and how much
worse my ability to concentrate and solve problems had been.

------
dlevine
About 10 years ago, I was talking to Aaron Iba, and he told me that one of his
biggest advantages over other programmers is that he makes sure to get a good
night's sleep every night. At the moment, I kind of dismissed it, but in
hindsight, I think that he was dead-on.

Sure, getting enough sleep won't magically make you a genius overnight. But it
will allow you to maximize the potential that you have.

------
blrgeek
Naps save me every time. Just when my work starts flagging and quality starts
dropping, a 20min nap makes me feel almost as fresh as I am coming into the
office in the morning.

Most others at work feel awkward about taking naps - even with me evangelising
naps :o)

~~~
nacnud
Where do you nap? Does your office provide a suitable place?

~~~
CmonDev
Most under-appreciated killer hiring feature.

~~~
tdoggette
I usually nap under the pool table that no one uses.

------
rcthompson
I wish I could take naps during the day when I get fatigued, but unfortunately
I have severe sleep apnea, so unless I sleep with a CPAP machine, I don't
actually get any rest. And my CPAP machine isn's something I can bring to
work.

~~~
larrys
Travel cpap machines. (I saw an article on this might not have been this exact
one it was a big advertisement also in the WSJ some time ago).

"[http://www.cpap.com/productpage/z1-travel-cpap-
machine.html"](http://www.cpap.com/productpage/z1-travel-cpap-machine.html")

I understand you still need a mask with these but it might be worth
considering depending on where you can situate yourself.

~~~
rcthompson
Well, my CPAP machine is already relatively portable, but I don't have
anywhere to nap at work, except in my car, which doesn't have an AC outlet
(also, I'd like to start biking to work, so I don't want to wed myself to the
car). I share a room with several other people, so I would need somewhere else
to nap.

~~~
cambion
On an unrelated note: May I suggest getting a second travel CPAP even if
you're not going to nap at the office?

You can use it for travel and vacations, but the best reason to have one is as
a backup. Trust me when I say that you don't want to wait a month for a
replacement when your existing CPAP fails (and it WILL fail).

Also, it's worth noting that many travel CPAPs have 12-volt car lighter
adapters so you can run it off of your car's battery. So maybe you could use
it to nap in your car?

~~~
rcthompson
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll definitely look into it.

~~~
larrys
My dad had a top of the line cpap that my mother just threw out.

Prior to that I had found a site that specialized in used cpaps and they were
going to buy it (apparently they had so much inventory they wanted to wait to
make an offer on it).

You can probably source a good used one through respiratory therapists either
privately or at a hospital. When someone passes away these are typically
thrown out. (After a certain amount of time they don't get returned to
medicare or something like that.)

~~~
mrbill
secondwindcpap.com is where I've gotten my last couple of units from.

------
6d0debc071
I don't think that people who function well with little sleep have a
significant advantage anyway.

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that they can get something like 1/16th
or so more done in a day - 1/16th of what? A six month project? Delivering 11
days earlier than the other side on something that takes six months isn't
likely to be a make or break point on a contract, even if their whole team
could work like that - which they undoubtedly couldn't.

It seems like fuel efficiency for your car. If you go from 5mph to 10mpg it's
a huge saving, but going to 40 from 35 is almost negligible.

~~~
dasil003
Totally agree on this. The low-hanging fruit isn't squeezing in a couple more
hours, its improving the quality of the hours you currently have. If you can
do 8 hours every weekday of truly productive time spent focused _on the right
things_ you'll run circles around most of these 100-hour-week braggarts
anyway.

Of course if you are truly god's gift to white-collar workaholism then sure
those additional hours can add up, but if you sacrifice sleep and thus
cognitive function you're shooting yourself in the foot to get there and
probably don't even realize it because of the haze you're living in.

------
rqebmm
Sleep and I have a rocky relationship. I'm terrible at falling asleep, and
even worse at waking up, but boy have I learned to value it.

I can't nap, because I literally can't sleep anything less than 4 hours.
Friends and relatives have tried yelling/shaking/banging pots and pans, but
the only thing that will wake me is cold water to the face.

However, I've found taking a few moments to meditate can do wonders when I'm
getting that run-down-man-I-could-use-a-nap feeling.

~~~
bonobo
I usually say that I don't have trouble sleeping, my trouble is with changing
states :)

I seldom go to bed in time because I hate to lay there trying to get asleep.
Wanting to make more use of my day also doesn't help; I don't get home before
7:30pm, and I don't want to just dine and go to bed...

Then comes the morning and I just can't wake up, even after 9, 10hs. I put my
alarm clock far away from my bed because I used to just turn it off and keep
sleeping. It doesn't help that much though: I "wake up", walk to it, turn it
off and go back to under my sheets. "Wake up" as in I'm walking but I'm not
totally conscious. It's like I'm drunk, I'll always find a nonsense reason to
justify going back to bed, like "hell, I need to go back to my bed now, or it
will get too light and float away"

~~~
rqebmm
In college I used to climb down from the top bunk, walk across the room, turn
off my alarm, and climb back up a ladder in my sleep.

Or so I was told anyway, I always assumed I had just slept through my alarm!

------
elwell
> Most of us have forgotten what it really feels like to be awake.

Reminded me of this relevant TED Talk:

[http://www.ted.com/talks/jessa_gamble_how_to_sleep](http://www.ted.com/talks/jessa_gamble_how_to_sleep)

------
jotm
The quality of sleep is important, too. Sometimes, you get that 6 hour sleep
that feels like an eternity and you are reborn when you wake up. Most of the
time, we get 8 hours of mediocre sleep - guess which one's better?

There also seems to be a Ballmer's peak to sleep - too little and you're
deprived, but too much and you're groggy and slow. 7 hours seems to do it for
me - I am well rested, yet still on that invisible edge that makes my body
push harder when I need it, unlike a seemingly good 9 hours of sleep, after
which I just can't seem to engage that certain drive that makes me think quick
and be creative.

------
krmmalik
I just woke up from a mid-afternoon nap and read this. What a lovely co-
incidence. Tony Schwarz is still the ultimate when it comes to productivity. I
first came across his material when watching Eben Pagan's "Get Altitude"
seminar, and I have to say, what he said in that video was life changing. I've
since seen the video a number of times. I don't think there's anyone else out
there that explains it -- or even gets to the crux of the points -- like he
does.

I've implemented many of his ideas over time (his book is good, but I still
found the seminar to be better).

\- Avoid multi-tasking. Anything that is an interference will reduce
productivity \- Create more physical energy by expending it \- Be mindful of
your emotional and spiritual energy. It works like a pyramid.

I'm not as disciplined as some of my friends who I watched this material with,
but I will say, it's had a great impact on my life.

This whole idea that you need to work into the night, or around the clock is
absurd. Our bodies aren't made for it.

------
njoglekar
If anyone is interested, we did an AmA about the benefits of and science
behind sleeping and napping a while back:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1vyuz2/iama_scientist_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1vyuz2/iama_scientist_who_specializes_in_napping_and_the/)

------
awjr
Working from home helps a lot here. I've found starting the day with exercise
(30 minute cycle ride) helps kick start my alertness. I split my lunch, I'll
eat quickly at my desk around 12, then work for a couple of hours, then take a
nap around 2pm. Seems to set me up for the afternoon.

------
webwielder
Too bad the body is often pretty lousy at honoring requests for quality sleep
even when we make the time.

~~~
adestefan
The first step is to kick a caffeine habit if you have one. That means no
coffee, no tea, no caffeinated soda.

~~~
eric_cc
I never had a problem falling asleep but I kicked my daily morning cup of
coffee and I can't believe how much energy I have. I used to feel a little
fuzzy when I first woke up until I had my coffee but now I wake up so full of
energy and feel great. I never realized just how negative caffeine is on your
energy level.

~~~
dzhiurgis
Likewise. Stopped drinking it and for a week withdrawal was hard, but after
that I would wake up in 3 minutes, rather than snooze for another 20. I do
still crave for it, but one hour into the day you forget it and become normal.

Coffee is such a short term fix with implications for the rest of the night.

The best thing is that I actually sleep same amount, but am better rested.
Perhaps it's not the same for everyone, but I feel more people should try it.
Caffeine is the nicotine of our era.

------
kordless
I'm a big fan of naps. I take one around 2PM or so, usually for about 15-20
minutes.

~~~
johnward
I can never take short naps. I always end up wanting to sleep the rest of the
day.

~~~
simonh
Here's a few tricks I learned a few years ago.

1\. I never nap for more than 20 minutes. If my body goes into a deeper level
of sleep or relaxation, I get up feeling groggy and disoriented.

2\. Properly nap. Force yourself not to think about work. Focus on other
things such as the weight of your body sinking into the chair/couch, the
distant sound of traffic, etc.

3\. Towards the end of the nap, very slowly and deliberately count up to 20,
with a maybe 2 or 3 long slow breaths between counts. Completely relax during
this count, but on the count of 20 immediately, instantly get up and go about
your business. Know that this is what you are going to do, but don't let your
body tense up or in any way get ready for it. Works for me like a charm. Just
psychologically knowing I'm going to do this somehow prepares me for it at a
deep level.

~~~
tnorthcutt
_Towards the end of the nap, very slowly and deliberately count up to 20_

How do you do this while you are asleep? Or do you mean do this after you wake
up?

~~~
tripzilch
The latter. I read about this elsewhere (except it was counting down from 10,
but the details don't matter). It's psychologically priming yourself, "I'm
going to get UP at the last count!".

Part of it is about how it's easier to make such decisions when it's not right
now, but somewhere in the future. The second part is that when the count is
up, you actually do it without thinking.

I tried it a couple of times and it does seem to help with the "uggh no just
one more minute" false reasoning. Haven't managed to turn it into a habit
though.

------
soup10
Being able to set my own sleep schedule was a driving factor in wanting to
start my own business. The tyranny of early wake ups and long commutes left me
pissed off, grumpy and unable to work to the best of my ability at school and
jobs.

------
semerda
All good and great that people write about the value of power naps. And I
totally agree of it's value. I love power napping. The energy boost & mental
clarity it provides is awesome.

But, I am still yet to see a startup/mature business declare proudly that they
encourage nap time and/or list that in their benefits web page. Maybe some
already do? But I haven't seen any yet. Please share links.

I am curious to see whether the reality of the business world allows for this
natural boost or are we still deep down driven by old fashioned work ethics.

------
up_and_up
All hours of the night are not created equal!

I am happy with 5-6 hours a night + 20-30 mins of meditation in the morning.

But I always get to bed by midnight!

I used to work in the evenings until 1am or 2am and then sleep later. But I
found getting up early (5:30am-6:30am) and working in the morning made a huge
difference. Working late in the evening made me feel weak and stressed out.
Working in the early morning after meditating makes me feel like I am serious
seizing the day.

This is with 3 kids, busy job, hectic schedule etc.

I have tested this out on myself for the past 5 years.

</anecdote>

------
hyperion2010
I always try to get 8 hours a night no exceptions. I gave up caffeine 2 years
ago and really haven't needed it. Many of my colleagues get about 6 hours a
night and tell me they feel like shit. That said, my PI is one of the rare
people who only needs 3-4 hours a night and the guy has published over 500
papers and has read nearly everything published in or tangentially related to
neuroscience. On average he probably gets and extra day of productive time a
week which is a huge advantage.

~~~
hndude
PI... principle investigator?

~~~
hyperion2010
Yes.

------
Bahamut
I learned early on the value of sleep - a good amount of rest allows you to be
focused longer during dredges of work.

From my own experience, it helped immensely during grad school, and it helps
me now with my career. I almost never have to wake up for an alarm - I
naturally wake up at a good time, without the added stressor of a hurried
morning. All it takes is a little discipline and advanced planning to get
yourself prepared.

------
Chinjut
I'm sure it's true that avoiding sleep-deprivation is useful for
"productivity", but, frankly, it saddens me that that this is the way it has
to be pitched to get people to pay attention. Avoiding sleep-deprivation is
also great for avoiding sleep-deprivation! You feel better and are healthier!
Not all of life is (or should be) about productivity, the workplace,
competitive advantage, etc.

------
girvo
I agree entirely! I absolutely love naps as a way to increase mental
performance, and they're comfortable to boot. The issue I have is that I can't
quite see myself having one in the office at work... I mean, _perhaps_ I could
get away with it, but those who don't understand the power of a quick nap to
get your mind refreshed and working at 100% capacity would probably think I'm
odd.

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cmwelsh
Add a yoga class to your lunch schedule... usually the final resting period is
a great time to grab a 15 minute nap and get ready for the afternoon.

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sirdogealot
>The two techniques that most help me to fall asleep when I’m under pressure
are to write down what’s on my mind (to get it off my mind) and to breathe
deeply if I’m still staying awake — in to a count of three, out to a count of
six.

A friend of mine once told me as I was feigning sleep one evening as usual to:
"just breathe like you are already asleep"

And 5 minutes later I was out like a light.

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adocracy
I use the Jawbone UP24 to monitor my sleep, and apparently, whether I'm
getting 4 hours or 6.5 hours, I constantly get ~ 3:50:00 of REM sleep. Yes,
I'm one of those founders who can get by on less than 8 hours, but I totally
recognize the value of naps and wouldn't discourage my cofounders or employees
from taking advantage of that.

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jonathanjaeger
I would much rather have less sleep + a 15-20 minute nap in the evening than
no nap and an extra 45 minutes sleep at night. Luckily at 7pm it's not hard to
take a power nap at the office in the conference room on a bean bag chair. I
wish most offices made it easier for people to take naps as it's proven
productivity would rise.

~~~
TylerE
I would much rather not be in the office at 7PM.

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robg
The corollary that he leaves out - Sleep appears to wash away toxins that
collect during the stressful day. Sleep seems to be a form of garbage
collection.

[http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2013/ninds-17.htm](http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2013/ninds-17.htm)

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bgitarts
Has anyone tried polyphasic sleep cycles as a way to get less sleep without
losing cognitive function?

~~~
bryanlarsen
Yes, I tried it for about 3 months 8 years ago.

You stay surprisingly functional for somebody who's only getting ~2 hours
total sleep a day, but you definitely lose cognitive function. I didn't
realize it at the time -- like a drunk or anybody functioning in a sleep debt
it doesn't feel like you've lost cognitive function, but it's readily apparent
to anybody who knows you well. The worst time is the half hour or so before
your next scheduled nap.

Perhaps the biggest thing I gained from the experiment was the ability to take
a power nap any time, any where.

~~~
philh
> Perhaps the biggest thing I gained from the experiment was the ability to
> take a power nap any time, any where.

If this can be reliably learned, it actually seems really valuable. Now I
wonder if there's a way to learn it that doesn't cost significant IQ for three
months.

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coulomb
I've heard that the amount of sleep you need is a genetic thing. But is that
true? Does anyone know what the main research articles are for that?

And has anyone ever significantly changed the amount they need by lifestyle
changes (like daily exercise)?

~~~
aResponder51
I needed a few more hours sleep on days with a lot of exercise (hours long
sessions).

Sleep hygiene helps. Lights out, blackout blinds, loud fans and notification
sounds off, no TV in the bedroom. The sleep you get is of a higher quality.

I haven't done it yet, but reddish lighting for late evening is something I'm
doing around the middle of fall this year.

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eldude
If you're having trouble sleeping, see my previous comment on the issue:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5672023](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5672023)

I used to never be able to fall asleep before 5am.

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d23
I'm jealous of those high-energy folks that seem to be running around on even
7 hours without feeling exhausted. Whether I get 7 hours or 12 hours, I feel
the same: sleepy.

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dokka
After reading this, I slept for ~8 hours last night for the first time in
months. I feel great today! Thanks!

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cleliodpaula
we're so close to understand that we're slightly different for each other, and
bio-self-analytics will show us this. we just need 2 or 3 years more. to hack
us.

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autokad
i find meditation/naps more powerful. getting into the sleep stage totally
upsets cycles, etc. at least thats how it is for me

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andyidsinga
best sleep aid ever: the hostory of the decline and fall of the roman empire
by edward gibbon.

2 pages for me and im out like a light.

~~~
danpat
I prefer "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Gibbon, by Edward Empire"
myself...

edit: it's a Monty Python joke people. Perhaps more relevant would be to have
a chat with Keith Maniac from Guatemala, who claims he can put bricks to
sleep? (ref:
[http://www.montypython.net/scripts/interest.php](http://www.montypython.net/scripts/interest.php))

~~~
andyidsinga
any response including monty python gets an upvote from me!

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josephlord
I failed to read this article on an iPad because something (I think the
floating link on the right) kept jumping me to another article. Of course the
website isn't buggy I'm just holding it wrong.

