
JFK's Application to Harvard - valgaze
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46828819/JFK-s-Harvard-Application-Materials
======
jontas
I'm curious: does anyone know the context of the grades in the application? I
saw actual grades listed in three places (pages 3, 17 and 26). He seems to
have received scores ranging from 50-85. Are these out of 100? If so, it
appears he wasn't a great student. He was ranked 65th out of 110 students
(page 17).

I'm not questioning his intelligence, he was clearly brilliant. However, I
find it interesting that he was an underachiever in high school (something I'm
sure the HN community can empathize with).

The letter from his father (page 13) says:

"Jack has a very brilliant mind for the things in which he is interested, but
is careless and lacks application in those in which he is not interested. This
is, of course, a bad fault. However, he is quite ambitious to try and do the
work in three years. I know how the authorities feel about this and I have my
own opinion, but it is a gesture that pleases me very much because it seems to
be the beginning of an awakening ambition"

I feel like this statement would've been equally accurate on my own college
applications.

~~~
ojiikun
I can't speak for Harvard in particular, but back in the '30s, grade inflation
hadn't yet taken hold, so it was quite normal for there to be many students
with Cs, rather than 90% As like today.

[http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/the-history-
of-...](http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/the-history-of-college-
grade-inflation/)

~~~
abalone
That doesn't explain his middle-of-the-pack class ranking. Even at a
prestigious boarding school that's not exactly "Harvard material". (Well, I
guess it is...)

Clearly he got in because of family connections.

~~~
jmduke
Straight C's at Andover/Exeter are more impressive to a dean of admissions
than a 4.0 at a public school.

(Not saying that one is more difficult than another, as I honestly have no
clue.)

------
sown
Heh. Get born into the right family and off to Harvard you go.

~~~
MengYuanLong
I would be interested to hear other's thoughts on JFK's answer to why he would
like to attend Harvard.

I suck at writing essays but it seems his reason for wanting to attend Harvard
is incredibly trite and superfluous, especially coming from a man who would
eventually be considered a great orator.

For example, he states that Harvard " is a university with something definite
to offer." Yet gives no definitive examples. Why is "To be a 'harvard man' is
an enviable distinction" in President Kennedy's mind? Essentially every
sentence lacks justification and specificity.

Sigh. These sorts of materials at least provide fuel to refocus on work and
studies. Being born outside a powerful family may lack certain advantageous
but they can be overcome. Right?

~~~
forensic
His answers are shallow because they can be. The application was just a
formality for the sake of show. He was guaranteed admission based on family
connections.

------
1337biz
Just wondering: Is there any decent Pdf host besides scribd? Every time I
visit the site I regret it once again. The list of additional domains to
whitelist in no-script just to view the content is endless. Just a simple Pdf
link would be much more pleasant.

~~~
agildehaus
It's not a PDF, but here's the source:

[http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-
Viewer/Archives/JFKPP-002-00...](http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-
Viewer/Archives/JFKPP-002-002.aspx)

~~~
andreasvc
This version is more readable, so the PDF conversion was badly done.

------
mturmon
The recommendation letter takes pains to talk about JFKs health and vigor, but
this is now known to be a front. He had health problems from an early age, and
took lots of medications. Reference:
[http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-
dec02/jfk_11-18.h...](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-
dec02/jfk_11-18.html)

~~~
jontas
The letter from his father to Harvard does mention that he has had some health
problems (blood disease) but that he has fully recovered.

Interesting that he was willing to contradict the letter of recommendation
that you mentioned. However, it looks like the letter from his father was sent
after he had been admitted, so maybe it didn't matter anymore.

~~~
mturmon
JFK had health problems in his youth and during his presidency, right up until
he was killed. He felt it necessary to convey the impression of "vigor" (a key
word for JFK) despite/because-of these problems. It's only recently that the
inner circle has felt comfortable talking about it.

------
jordanbaucke
They should put up Obama's application to Harvard...or Occidental and Columbia
for that matter.

~~~
slurgfest
Do we really need every thread that mentions the keyword 'President' to
contain this kind of partisan rubbish? I don't see you calling for Reagan's,
Bush's or Romney's applications.

~~~
tprynn
His comment doesn't really seem partisan in any way to me. It's just a
statement that it would be interesting to see the current president's college
applications too, as it would be interesting to see any president's college
applications.

~~~
slurgfest
Then why not change the subject to Coolidge?

~~~
sophacles
Now you're being disingenuous. It is quite simple:

People have many interests. Interest is not a binary term - One can be
interested in varying degrees.

Perhaps he is interested in all presidents' admission records, but more
interested in the current president because it is more relevant to his life
than others. Just because there is relevance, does NOT imply partisanship.

By analogy I find operating system internals interesting. I am interested in
how many of them do things. However I find discussions about Windows more
interesting than those about multics. Not because I am a fan of windows (I am
not) nor because I hate windows (I don't, it is a decent OS these days, I just
prefer others), but because it is relevant to my life as a person living in
the era where it is actually being used.

Note, this won't stop me from reading an interesting new article about the
multics way, just that when offered a source with new (to me) insights on
windows or multics, I would choose windows.

~~~
slurgfest
I'm not being disingenuous. The topic was of intellectual, historical interest
- about JFK. Who did not release the documents. They are just documents about
JFK.

Somehow it is changed to a demand for documents from the current President in
the middle of an election season.

If you are interested in all admission records, there is no reason to single
out Obama... say you think all Presidents should have their admission records
released.

This is more like 'look at this interesting snippet of code from CP/M'
resulting in yelling about binary blobs in some modern OS. Totally irrelevant
and political.

~~~
sophacles
No, the topic was presidential college admissions. This one, because it was
JFK, was historical. It also was political, because we were talking about a
politician, a fact that does not change whether it was a current or past
politician.

And your analogy is wrong too: It is like saying here is code from CP/M, and
someone saying "how do modern OSes handle that feature?". That question is not
advocacy for new OSes, it is a question of comparison between eras.

You are trying to ascribe motive and sinister desires to a neutral statement.

------
abecedarius
I liked the answer to "Why do you want to go to Harvard?" Shortened:

"Several reasons: Harvard is cool. Harvard is _really_ cool. My dad went to
Harvard. And then I could name-drop Harvard too."

------
jpeg_hero
Seems like the most important page in the application is the letter from ole
Joe Kennedy.

~~~
pkill17
And how would you reply to a letter from ole Joe Kennedy if it were placed in
your Inbox at work? ;)

~~~
philwelch
"Please tell me who found the secret of resurrection and taught you to use
email. This is the most remarkable news I've ever heard."

------
JoeAltmaier
Its easy to be critical of JFK's admission to Harvard as a result of
priviledge. I think it natural and correct.

Lots of people go to Harvard, ordinary (my niece) and priviledged. Those with
money and power, use it to get good things for their progeny.

Else why gain money and power? Its not just scorekeeping. If I can't work hard
to get better things for my children, then its all a game.

In a free market things are for sale, and good things cost more. Harvard is a
private institution. They use legacy, money, ability about equally as
admission standards. And it has served them well.

~~~
superuser2
>They use legacy, money, ability about equally as admission standards.

No they don't. Harvard, like just about every university these days, has need-
blind admissions.

[http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/inde...](http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/index.html)

As a middle-class high school senior, I would like to point at that Harvard's
net price per year for me would be ~$13,000, or roughly _half_ the in-state
price of my local state school, the University of Wisconsin (~$24,000). The
notion that Harvard favors the rich is BS as far as I can tell. I think it's a
bit more likely the rich more consistently pressure and enable their children
to prepare.

~~~
jbapple
> >They use legacy, money, ability about equally as admission standards.

> No they don't. Harvard, like just about every university these days, has
> need-blind admissions.

"Need blind" doesn't imply "legacy blind" or "blind to the political
connections of the applicant's family". Harvard may not distinguish between
someone who can pay and someone who can't, but I would be surprised if they
didn't distinguish between someone who can pay for tuition and someone who can
pay for a new wing of the library.

~~~
justin66
I always assumed that they kept a small, fixed percentage of their seats open
for legacy admissions. I thought this was actually something accounted for in
their written policies. Perhaps not anymore.

The interesting thing is that, whatever political interests they want to
indulge, they need not be swayed by a potential student's family's ability to
fund a new building any more than they need be swayed by a poor but gifted
student's inability to pay full tuition. Their endowment is the largest of any
university in the world, at $26 billion, and there is no shortage of people
willing to give them more.

------
lordlicorice
The "Dear Sir" and "Mr." built into the form letter on page 7 caught my eye.
That's not something you see anymore.

------
dubrock
However poor his grades, Harvard still had an interest in admitting him as a
legacy, and it paid off.

------
jermaink
P. 23 'please accept my thanks for your help ?'

------
wilfra
In which quarter of the class is he? 3rd

What number out of 110 students is he? 85th

What honors has he won in literary or scholastic pursuits? None

So JFK was basically just George W. Bush. Interesting.

~~~
barking
There are other abilities that are not measured by tests, such as the ability
to get on with people, humility, courage, willingness to learn from mistakes,
insight, etc.

According to Robert McNamara, JFK's ability to empathise with the Russians'
position was very important in resolving the cuban missile crisis. As was his
courage in facing down the military who wanted to attack cuba.

Presumably he had also learnt from his mistake in authorising the Bay of Pigs
invasion, a project he inherited on coming to office.

~~~
wilfra
George W. Bush wasn't a one dimensional idiot either. He had a lot of charisma
and people skills and is probably one of the highest Presidents of all time on
the 'would like to have a beer with him' barometer, even now.

I always thought of JFK as more like Obama (or rather, I thought of Obama as
like JFK). As in, a genius. It is pretty clear from this application that a
genius he was not.

~~~
justin66
> George W. Bush wasn't a one dimensional idiot either. He had a lot of
> charisma and people skills and is probably one of the highest Presidents of
> all time on the 'would like to have a beer with him' barometer, even now.

I would have thought the beer thing was a colloquialism for approval rating.
If that's so, you're incorrect: at 22% his final approval rating was the worst
in history, since they began recording such things in the thirties.

~~~
anamax
> If that's so, you're incorrect: at 22% his final approval rating was the
> worst in history, since they began recording such things in the thirties.

The day after election day, you're probably going to be telling us that 45-55%
of the voters were idiots. Today, we can find large fractions which believe
all sorts of idiocy (such as "think happy thoughts to help you get pregnant").

Combine that with a press that campaigned against W for his 2 terms while he
stopped campaigning after his first and it's surprising that he was at 22%.

Today's happy fact, national "income" dropped more during "the recovery" than
during the recession.

~~~
justin66
> The day after election day, you're probably going to be telling us that
> 45-55% of the voters were idiots.

You replied to me but I really don't know where you were trying to go with
this. I assure you, I think way more than half of voters are idiots. ;)

(at least in their capacity as voters)

