
Why the NBA Apologized to China over Daryl Morey's Tweet About Hong Kong - konstructorui
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/sports/basketball/nba-china-hong-kong.html
======
cco
It's very interesting that "non-respectable" Trey Parker and Matt Stone
responded in the morally correct way and the NBA decides to kiss the feet of
despots.

Pretty disgusting really. It really shows that the dream of liberalization of
China is dead, some thought that we could do it but irony strikes again and
instead of opening up China our corporations and institutions have become
infected and we're in the midst of The Reverse Opium War.

~~~
serf
> It's very interesting that "non-respectable" Trey Parker and Matt Stone
> responded in the morally correct way and the NBA decides to kiss the feet of
> despots.

Creators of one of the most effective US-centric propaganda engines in recent
times have an opinion that sides with the main-line US narrative that's
parallel with every other op-ed article being blasted across other well-known
US-centric propaganda engines.

Color me surprised.

To be clear : I have no dog in this fight personally; but South Park has been
pretty obviously 'narratively - conveinent' for years. If you want to know
what their opinion is going to be about a topic before the related episode
just open up a page of the NY Times and radicalize the most popular op-ed
opinion to the Nth.

'Team America'ify any article : bam , a new South Park episode.

Anyone paying attention during any of the Bush era wars can see this plain as
day.

"Let's portray Bush as a total moron so that we can play off of public disdain
for him, but let's depict his actions as successful and 'terrorists' as 'the
bad guys' and the US as 'good guys' , don't want to rock the boat _too_ bad."
.

Talk about having your cake and eating it too, they get credit for being some
sort of anti-PC badasses while toting the US main status-quo opinions.

~~~
greggman2
You must be watching a different show than me. I've seen mostly critism of
many American polcies. Of White middle America in particular. And of the
hypocracy of so many positions.

I don't see any pro US propoganda. I guess I must be brainwashed. How is the
episode about Amazon pro US? How is the episode about Disney corporate
hypocracy pro US? How is the episode about hiring Mexican laborers pro US?
Even the movie was all about how stupid the USA around censorship and how
people get offended at bad words instead of bad actions. They did nothing but
make fun of Bush in every episode their Bush-like character was in. They also
made fun of Bush supporters showning how stupid they were in following him.

~~~
dagw
I'll preface this by saying that I haven't watched the show in years.

Watching from outside the US it does feel pretty solidly pro US. The core
message seems to be that sure, we have some dumb politicians and occasionally
our huge companies do some dumb and evil shit, but that is the aberration. The
Real America is made up of fundamentally Good People striving to do the Right
Thing and that will always prevail over any temporary glitches in the system.
All the criticisms they levy are the same criticisms being made at the time by
all Good Americans.

The show is obviously made by two people who love their country
despite/because of all its flaws and that clearly shines through.

~~~
master-litty
I've paused to really think about this -- I think you may be taking the show
very literally when it's not meant to be taken that seriously.

It _does_ often have that surface-level message: Good people will always
prevail, evil is a necessary part of the status quo, etc. But that's always
part of the joke.

I don't think anyone leaves South Park episodes thinking "wow that is so true"
and having introspective thoughts about our country. It's more like "what the
fuck did I just watch" and "that's about right," dismissive of the average
American lifestyle or unhappy with the problems we often face.

I'll keep that in mind though. Interesting perspective.

~~~
dagw
_But that 's always part of the joke._

Sure on one hand that's the joke, but I feel they never really subvert or
question that joke (again with the caveat I really haven't seen much from the
last ~10 seasons or so). As long as our heroes stay true to their Real
American Values nothing bad can ever happen to them. Now I could be wrong, but
the way that that message permeates everything the creators make feels
genuine.

------
remarkEon
Here's the Nets owner's response, which adds a little more color to this
already contentious issue.[0][1]

I don't see a way for the NBA to come out ahead on this. Chinese investment
already drives a lot of business decisions for the League, and I doubt that a
civics lesson for fans and players about Chinese territorial sovereignty is
going to do anything to lower the temperature. Tsai's statement comes across
as particularly caustic - making an implication that Morey's tweets call into
question that territorial sovereignty in the same way that e.g. Japanese
invasion did. As a sports fan, it's tough to remain objective here. On the one
hand, Hong Kong _will_ integrate - baring some major geopolitical course
corrections, and probably a war. On the other, it's a little disturbing to see
US sports figures - who otherwise are generally untouchable, for the most part
- bend over backwards to make sure they don't sufficiently enrage China (looks
like it's too late) over some tweets by a GM who is pretty well liked in the
League.

As a meta point, I figure this is only the beginning and we'll continue to see
China flex it's financial and population muscle abroad in ways that may seem
hard to predict in advance, but are pretty obvious once they happen.

[0][https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2856965-nets-governor-
jo...](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2856965-nets-governor-joe-tsai-
releases-statement-on-daryl-moreys-hong-kong-tweet)
[1][https://www.facebook.com/100001583307192/posts/2653378931391...](https://www.facebook.com/100001583307192/posts/2653378931391524?sfns=mo)

~~~
siruncledrew
> _On the other, it 's a little disturbing to see US sports figures - who
> otherwise are generally untouchable, for the most part - bend over backwards
> to make sure they don't sufficiently enrage China (looks like it's too late)
> over some tweets by a GM who is pretty well liked in the League._

To add context for those that don’t follow basketball:

A lot of players that don’t end up “making it” in the NBA play in China as an
alternative because: 1) China has shorter season game schedules, 2) Fans there
go crazy for basketball and treat even B/C-tier NBA players like celebrities,
3) Chinese teams pay _a lot_ of money to foreign players, 4) the CBA season
ends before the end of the NBA season, so players who did well in the CBA have
a chance of getting a contract with an NBA playoff team.

Jeremy Lin (asian-american NBA-veteran) is an example of an aged player that
signed with the CBA after he didn’t get any NBA offers, and is making $3M this
upcoming season for 38 games in the CBA after he was paid $700k last year for
82 games with Toronto.

Other players like Josh Smith, Lance Stephenson, Tracy McGrady, and Stephon
Marbury also played in China too.

For the vast majority of NBA players (or elite international basketball
players), this is like a short way to “go on tour”, make a ton of money, and
then return back to cushy life in the US.

------
deogeo
How long until China starts pressuring foreign firms to cut business with
those that speak against it?

Will mentioning Tibet jeopardize your AWS account?

~~~
cdmckay
Isn’t the USA doing this very thing with sanctions against Venezuela and Iran?

Even if you’re not an American company, you can be punished by the USA for
doing business in countries that they have sanctioned.

So let’s not pretend like this is some horrible future, it’s already the
present.

~~~
deogeo
It's the present for Venezuela and Iran. If you want a similar fate for the
USA, keep allowing Chinese influence to grow. But do not be surprised if other
Americans don't find much comfort in your preachings that they deserve it.

If someone punches you, should you not put up your guard, because you, too,
have punched others?

~~~
pritambaral
> ... in your preachings that they deserve it.

I don't see where your parent preaches "the deserve it".

------
kabacha
There's a good point about "the fans" here. Chinese audience is widely
considered to be the most fragile and childish out there (though it's likely
being manipulated by the goverment). Most famous examples are Steam (digital
game shop) product reviews - if a game offends China in any way it will be
bombed with chinese reviews.

~~~
edflsafoiewq
What's an example on Steam?

~~~
nmussy
Devotion was a pretty big one:
[https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-02-25-devotion-
devel...](https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-02-25-devotion-developer-
calls-for-calm-as-fallout-from-xi-jinping-winnie-the-pooh-china-meme-
reference-goes-from-bad-to-worse)

------
mc32
The league should have said: “We regret the truth offended you; we stand by
the truth”.

Now we know they don’t operate by principles but as everyone knew they only
side with “the right thing” when it intersects with their money. And at no
other time.

~~~
99753throw
Now imagine if the league had said that about Palestine.

~~~
kelnos
Trump would have gone on a rant, and some pro-Israel advertisers and
supporters would pull their money out, but otherwise they'd be fine. An entire
country wouldn't boycott them, probably not even Israel (but if they did, so
what).

------
sunkenvicar
China’s brand equity is quickly sinking.

~~~
mikelyons
For those who are ignorant, what was the brand's value prop before?

~~~
mr_toad
Up to about ten years ago, the Chinese government was generally viewed as
becoming more liberal, progressive and open. Under the current regime, the
opinion of most western commentators has gone the other way.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
11 years ago actually, and that was mainly just for the 2008 Olympics, they
quickly retreated after the games. The backpedaling definitely started under
Hu even if Xi accelerated it.

But there is hope: another Olympics is happening in 2022, they might restart
another charm campaign so that isn’t a disaster.

~~~
philwelch
Shades of 1936.

------
tibbydudeza
"Let’s hope the incident with Morey and the Houston Rockets will teach other
companies a lesson: The big Chinese market is open to the world, but those who
challenge China’s core interests and hurt Chinese people’s feelings cannot
make any profit from it."

So basically suck it up if you want our money.

------
wdr1
I wish every NBA player would now tweet in favor of Hong Kong.

------
rayiner
A better take on this: [https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/china-nba-
twitter-dis...](https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/china-nba-twitter-
dispute-league-abases-itself)

> This event is starkly clarifying. And it should give conservatives and
> progressives pause, because China’s model of imposing Xi Jinping thought is
> a direct and equal threat to us. If Chinese authoritarianism is able to
> spread into American life through corporate power, because corporations are
> set up to serve shareholders and have trouble thinking ethically beyond
> that, then perhaps it is the duty of the state to interrupt the exchange
> mechanism through which this corruption proceeds. If China is forcing
> American corporations to impose Xi Jinping thought, maybe it’s time to
> choose.

~~~
remarkEon
Ehh. I’m not really inclined to call my representative and advocate that we
get involved in yet another foreign entanglement. What does “save Hong Kong”
mean? Undoing the agreement that’s in place for hand-over to China?

~~~
point78
For starters it means not integrating them into a country with concentration
camps, kills journalists, suppresses dissent

Hong Kong was a democracy, it getting eaten up by China is horrendous.

~~~
samus
> Hong Kong was a democracy, it getting eaten up by China is horrendous.

Hong Kong was never a democracy in the modern sense. Its citizen only elect
half of the members of the legislative council. And the Chief It had Rule of
Law, freedoms of press and assembly and other factors, but it was never a full
democracy.

------
Markoff
because unlike authors of South park they lack backbone, no need to read
article

~~~
dagw
Because, unlike the authors of South Park, they have a real financial stake in
the Chinese market. It's easy to have "backbone" take a stand when you have
nothing of value on the line.

The only way to make the NBA change their mind is if enough people in the US
boycott the NBA to the point where they are losing more money domestically
than they're making from the Chinese market

~~~
insulanus
Yes, as much as we can admire people standing up for what they believe in, the
NBA and Blizzard had put themselves in a position of having to give up
something to criticize China. South Park really has nothing to lose.

------
ospider
Can we stop submitting political links to hacker news?

~~~
99753throw
I wish there was a way to filter out political news here.

It's telling that all of it is about China, and rarely any on Kashmir, Iraq,
Sudan, or Turkey.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
China is a huge country with a huge tech presence that many of us are exposed
to. I don’t know of many tech startups in Kashmir, Iraq, Sudan, Turkey, I
guess others are similar, so they don’t get as much attention here.

~~~
stickfigure
Furthermore, there's so much _technology_ being utilized in this conflict. The
GFW, social credit scores, facial recognition, an army of censors policing
chat rooms... there's a lot of dystopian science fiction materializing here.
Some of it using technologies that "we" are familiar with or even work on.

------
jialutu
Of course it's about money! However the problem is because the situation in HK
is not as straight forward as people think. I would recommend everyone watch
this video before making any judgements or comments:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYuGYLesx0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPYuGYLesx0)

SCMP has been for the past few months been very supportive of the "protests",
so I am not even sure why they put this video up in the first place. As we can
see, these guys are not the "peaceful protesters" people would like you to
believe, but more rioters or even terrorists (yeah, they threatened a 70 yr
old lady). So I would say at this stage expressing support for these guys in
HK are like supporting the Sandy Hook conspiracies
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_s...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting_conspiracy_theories)
which I would imagine a similar response from the NBA.

~~~
yorwba
> However the problem is because the situation in HK is not as straight
> forward as people think.

Agreed.

> SCMP has been for the past few months been very supportive of the
> "protests", so I am not even sure why they put this video up in the first
> place. As we can see, these guys are not the "peaceful protesters" people
> would like you to believe, but more rioters or even terrorists

The masked, armed people in the video may be terrorists, but have you
considered that the SCMP is doing a form of nonviolent protest? That if all
protesters were terrorists, they'd have a larger army than the Islamic State
ever had? The fact that the Hong Kong government remains in power despite
their inferior numbers shows that most protesters disapprove of violent
tactics just as much as you do.

You seem to have realized that a black-and-white view like "protesters are
good, they should be supported" is too simple and requires more nuance, but
then you went and replaced it with the black-and-white "protesters are bad,
they should not be supported."

I think a better alternative is "some protesters are good, they should be
supported; other protesters are bad, they should not be supported." Spend some
time figuring out who fits in each bucket.

Treating groups of people as single entities with a unified will is only going
to lead to confusion when they don't act like one. (That applies also to the
Hong Kong police, the Hong Kong government, the Chinese Communist Party,
Chinese people, and other participants in this conflict.)

