
Uber plans to start audio-recording rides in the U.S. for safety - elorant
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/11/20/uber-plans-start-audio-recording-rides-us-safety/
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uptown
Coming soon -- algorithmic manipulation to the passenger volume offered to
drivers whose audio indicates that they're driving for competing services, and
passenger advertising profiles, based on their topic of conversations, offered
for sale to any interested buyers.

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jrockway
Why would they sell this data? Just use it to serve ads in the app. If you
sell someone the data, they have it forever. If you dole it out in cost per
impression, they keep coming back for more.

~~~
uptown
Because it's likely more valuable to sell data to multiple buyers than it is
to try to deliver ads inside an app which may only be used occasionally for
short periods of use. It also allows them to distance themselves from the
creepy-factor.

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josephpmay
I actually support this, despite being a strong advocate for privacy.

Statistically, assault by Uber drivers is really rare, but enough people take
enough rides that I know multiple people who have had these experiences. Uber
needs to have super-strict privacy controls and auditing on this, but it'll
make a lot of people, especially women, feel more comfortable with taking
Ubers.

~~~
loriverkutya
Or instead of this, actually put an effective vetting system in place for
drivers. That would not require super-strict privacy control and the
inevitable hack. (having this data would make uber the most juicy target for
spy agencies)

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burkaman
There is no vetting system that can separate criminals from "normal people",
beyond looking at obvious stuff like past convictions. Sex offenders don't
look or act any different than the rest of us.

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yalogin
What? The whole Uber board, all their execs and their staff think this is a
good idea? I don’t get how these things get decided in some companies.

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giarc
Every cab I have ever got in has had a video camera with a note saying that
they are recording.

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tremon
And for every cab, that recording stays offline in the vehicle (protected
compartment) unless circumstances say otherwise. It also doesn't have infinite
storage.

Both are different in this case, so the comparison is moot.

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daveFNbuck
> When the trip ends, the user will be asked if everything is okay and be able
> to report a safety incident and submit the audio recording to Uber with a
> few taps

This sounds pretty similar to what's happening in the cabs. The recording
stays offline in your phone unless someone feels that it's the sort of thing
that should be uploaded to Uber.

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donatj
I am honestly surprised they weren’t already, I don’t really understand the
opposition to this. I would love there to be a record of my rides such that if
it comes to it, it’s not the drivers word vs mine. Honestly, start recording
the video.

~~~
loriverkutya
You honestly don't understand the difference between somebody listening to
your conversation and that conversation is being recorded, stored, analysed,
added to your profile, sold to 3rd parties, stolen by hackers and given to law
enforcment agencies?

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magduf
What kind of idiot has a private conversation in a cab? Did you think the
driver was deaf or something?

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vorpalhex
I don't care if I discuss say, my retirement plans or my intended stock trades
with a cab driver listening in. I do care if a recording of those things is
sent to a multi-national company who is motivated by profit.

It's the same case that I don't care if my neighbor's security cam records me
leaving my house, but I care quite a bit if a distributed security system
owned by the state does.

~~~
magduf
>I don't care if I discuss say, my retirement plans or my intended stock
trades with a cab driver listening in. I do care if a recording of those
things is sent to a multi-national company who is motivated by profit.

That's weird, I'm exactly the opposite. The last thing I want to do is give
any private financial information to some strange guy who drives a car for a
living, which he or one of his contacts might use to rob me. I'm not too
worried about a huge multinational company doing that; they'll just try to
sell me something at worst.

~~~
vorpalhex
That multinational company is probably going to put your data in an unsecured
s3 bucket or a company-accessible excel spreadsheet. So instead of "some
strange guy" it's going to be an entire network of people who could use that
to rob you directly, plus anyone who works at any of the companies they sell
it to, plus people who buy it directly with the intent of spear fishing or
ripping you off (legally or illegally).

~~~
magduf
>That multinational company is probably going to put your data in an unsecured
s3 bucket or a company-accessible excel spreadsheet.

You can't put an audio recording into an Excel spreadsheet.

~~~
vorpalhex
No you would put the results of keyword spotting in one though.

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dsalzman
[https://news.gallup.com/poll/6196/which-freedoms-will-
americ...](https://news.gallup.com/poll/6196/which-freedoms-will-americans-
trade-security.aspx)

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tr1coder
Aren't they already doing this? An Uber driver explained to me a situation
where he drove a drug dealer (didn't know it at the time) who refused to pay
him and ran away. After contacting Uber support they said to him that they
reviewed the audio recording of their conversations in the car and established
that the driver was telling the truth and paid him part of the fare.

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captncraig
How can you "refuse to pay" with uber? You have to have a card on file to
order a ride. Not having a payment interaction with the driver is half the
appeal.

~~~
_-___________-_
There are some parts of the world where you can pay for Uber rides with cash.

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ivankolev
In what world we live where this is a good idea?!

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throwanem
The same one in which Uber keeps getting away with pretending its employees
aren't employees.

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ivankolev
Sadly, they probably will with the audio rec too. If I ever use Uber, I now
have to remember to just shut up and not give them more datapoints...

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mepiethree
You shutting up (being privacy conscious) is a data point

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deogeo
The list of places with privacy is growing thin..

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friedman23
I don't know how you ever imagined a cab, a small enclosed space with a
stranger, was ever private.

~~~
deogeo
It's private between the occupants of the vehicle. The scenario I had in mind
was an idle chat with the driver, perhaps about politics, perhaps about
unionization at Uber. What you say has not (so far) been shared with a
multinational corporation.

'Private' isn't a binary - there's a _huge_ difference between being overheard
by a stranger or acquaintance, being seen walking down the street through the
window by someone's grandma, and placing microphones and surveillance cameras
around public places, gathering the data at some central location, to be used
for ads, building a commercial or political profile of you, and subject to
police seizure, or bought by private security that's investigating
troublemakers at some company, or just running a background check on you
before offering you a job.

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akeck
Does this put drivers at risk in two party consent states?

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new_realist
In many states, this is illegal without two party consent.

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whb07
One would assume that the terms of service would mention it. Don't like it,
don't ride.

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vorpalhex
Consent for recording in some states requires affirmative verbal consent.
Burying it in the ToS is not valid, nor is a toast notification.

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will4274
> Consent for recording in some states requires affirmative verbal consent

Citation? Seems like a nice place to live but I don't think any state requires
more than notification

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SquishyPanda23
Obviously it's for the data stream, not your safety.

I do not look forward to the future of driverless cars as automated
surveillance capsules with obnoxious advertisements assaulting all of your
senses.

