

Soylent: Operations Update - rwissmann
http://blog.soylent.me/post/59466009067/operations-update

======
StevePerkins
For the life of me, I can't understand why this is such a trendy topic on HN.
If you walk into any grocery store or pharmacy, there are at least two aisles
stocked with nothing but meal-replacement shakes.

One of the aisles is targeted at young people, with marketing themes around
bodybuilding or triathlon training. The other aisle is targeted at senior
citizens, with marketing themes around osteoporosis or longevity. There might
be a third aisle, or a portion of one of the other two, targeting mostly women
with themes of weight loss. However, it's pretty much the same stuff in the
bottle on any aisle.

Soylent looks to be a online aisle, targeting the exact same stuff to tech-
savvy hipsters, with themes of lifehacking and and classic sci-fi cinema.

I'm sure that _your_ particular Brawndo is special because it has
electrolytes, or whatever, but I don't understand why the underlying concept
of a meal-replacement shake warrants so much coverage. This concept isn't the
least bit novel.

~~~
bloopletech
You gave the reason yourself: The existing market is segmented, and none of
those markets shouts 'average HN user'.

Compare the marketing/segmentation of the existing products:

Senior citizens: For old people / a worse replacement for regular meals /
medical.

Women losing weight: I'm fat / unhealthy / a worse replacement for regular
meals / temporary, once I've lost the weight I'll switch back.

Bodybuilders: DUDE, CHECK OUT MY LATS. I ALWAYS DO 10 x 10 DP SETS AND THEN
SLAM DOWN A PROTEIN SHAKE. DUUUUUDE.

Soylent: For many people, on many occasions, food is a hassle, especially when
trying to eat well. It allows one to enjoy the health benefits of a well
balanced diet with less effort and cost.

Now which of these is going to attract, and which is going to repel, the
stereotypical HN user?

Of course these are stereotypes, but this is marketing, and segmenting often
uses stereotypes to push people into making different purchasing decisions: As
an average HN user, I'm going to feel weird/wrong buying a women's weight loss
shake, or a senior citizens medical food, or a gym expert's protein shake, but
I'm going to feel great buying Soylent, because I fit into the marketing.

My point is that none of the existing products on the market market all these
points: * An equal replacement for food, instead of a worse substitute on one
axis or another (at least nutritionally); * An all the time replacement, not
just for a specific purpose; * Market direct to the consumer (this seems to be
the issue with some of the replacements used in hospitals).

Now, whether Soylent actually meets these claims, or whether the stereotypes
are actually relevant to the contents of the products themselves, is largely
irrelevant at this point. This is marketing, and HN users are gullible to it
like everyone else. (Personally, I'm rooting for Soylent)

Re the name, which a bunch of people who seriously fail to see why that name:
because it is rebellious in exactly the way average HN users are suckers for.

~~~
cantrevealname
> _This is marketing, and HN users are gullible to it like everyone else._

Exactly, and here's another example: What's the difference between Diet Coke
and Coke Zero?

Answer: Diet Coke is popular with women, so some men won't drink it. Hence,
introduce the more masculine Coke Zero, but basically the same thing. But make
some tiny little tweaks to caffeine content and sweetness to create plausible
deniability about it being identical.

Reference: [http://foodwatch.com.au/mailbag/item/q-what-s-the-
difference...](http://foodwatch.com.au/mailbag/item/q-what-s-the-difference-
between-diet-coke-and-coke-zero-2.html)

------
fingerprinter
I literally cannot fathom how this is 1. interesting to people 2. new and
novel and 3. always trending on HN.

People can and have lived on liquid food for quite a long time. This isn't
new, this isn't particularly interesting or groundbreaking in anyway.

Why the fascination on HN? Can someone explain it to me?

~~~
hermaj
I'm starting to think this has to be a viral marketing campaign / social
experiment.

It's an interesting premise that people would entrust their long term health
to unqualified individuals, who lack the resources to employ qualified
individuals, simply for an extra hour everyday.

~~~
cabalamat
> It's an interesting premise that people would entrust their long term health
> to unqualified individuals

I trust my diet to an unqualified individual (me), as do most people.

> simply for an extra hour everyday

An hour a day is 6% of your waking life.

~~~
hermaj
> I trust my diet to an unqualified individual (me), as do most people.

If you live in a country which adheres to standards of food safety and has
regulatory bodies to protect and promote public health then I disagree. You
entrust those bodies and the qualified individuals within them because they
ensure what you purchase is what it says it is. Soylent has not reached this
level of evaluation.

> An hour a day is 6% of your waking life.

If Soylent works completely as advertised yes you gain time. Should it lead to
any kind of health problems it's more than likely you lose time.

~~~
asdasf
>If you live in a country which adheres to standards of food safety and has
regulatory bodies to protect and promote public health then I disagree

Soylent has to adhere to all those same standards.

~~~
fingerprinter
No it won't, in the US at least. It will likely not need FDA approval just
like most sports supplement don't.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_food_and_dietary_supplements_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration#Dietary_supplements)

~~~
asdasf
Did you even read that? It says you are wrong.

>The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 mandated that the FDA
regulate dietary supplements as foods

Soylent has to adhere to the exact same standards as all the other food you
buy right now.

~~~
fingerprinter
You either needed to read more or more closely. According to wikipedia linked:

"Like other food substances, dietary supplements are not subject to the safety
and efficacy testing requirements imposed on drugs, and unlike drugs they do
not require prior approval by the FDA; however, they are subject to the FDA
regulations regarding adulteration and misbranding. The FDA can take action
against dietary supplements only after they are proven to be unsafe. "

~~~
asdasf
No, you need to read more closely. It says exactly what I said. Soylent is
covered under the exact same requirements as all other foods. This is very
simple to understand, and I honestly can't imagine how you can possibly be
having difficulty with this.

------
Carlee
How on Earth is ten days enough to test anything in regards to diet? Pretty
sure humans don't notice much change in that time, let alone enough to
measure? Day to day numbers fluctuate by a lot, so wouldn't it have to be
tested over a longer period for it to be valid?

~~~
thisishugo
They're at the point of making changes to "taste, texture, and smell" \- the
dietary side of the formula is nailed down already, and I am willing to
believe was tested more rigorously.

~~~
ceejayoz
> I am willing to believe was tested more rigorously.

Really? Their site launched with a FAQ on safety that essentially read "well,
we haven't died yet..."

------
juice13
Here's an interesting analysis of Soylent:
[http://www.priceplow.com/blog/soylent-
subterfuge](http://www.priceplow.com/blog/soylent-subterfuge)

I would think twice before committing to a soylent-only diet.

------
tokenadult
My uncle was born with a digestive tract defect that was not detected until he
was of middle age. (The only sign that he had any health problem at all was
that he was of only average height, in a family in which all his five brothers
were tall.) He was on total parenteral nutrition

[http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a601166.htm...](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a601166.html)

for something like twenty years before dying last week at the age of ninety-
one. It's basic medical background knowledge that keeps me from being
impressed by the Soylent shot in the dark, and it is reflecting that human
nutrition is both

a) mostly a hard problem, and

b) mostly a SOLVED problem

that keeps me from making gee-whiz comments about the Soylent project here on
HN. The great thing about a free-enterprise economy with minimal regulation is
that if you like this kind of thing, you can spend your hard-earned money to
buy Soylent. If your eating behavior includes experiential or social outcomes
better met by eating a variety of foods you cook and chew, you can join me in
eating a little of this and a little of that over the course of a year. The
Soylent company is YC-invested, as I recall, so press releases from the
company will continue to be posted here, but meanwhile I will pursue a variety
of micronutrients and a variety of pleasant experiences by eating a varied
diet with my family and friends.

------
jonathanjaeger
I don't know how many different formulas they'll make in the future, but I'd
love one with some sort of crushed up powdered oats mix instead of
maltodextrin or other not-so-great carb sources. There are very few meal
replacements in the supplement market that aren't filled with maltodextrin or
sugar alcohols. I'd love something that's the equivalent of a meal I could put
in a blender (e.g. banana, natural peanut butter, oats, and maybe some protein
powder) without all the added chemicals.

~~~
Blahah
My DIY blend uses oat flour. There are a lot of soylent recipes out there -
the hacker school soylent recipe [1] is a nice oat-flour based one with a
decent default nutritional profile.

1: [http://www.cookingfor20.com/2013/06/18/hacker-school-
soylent...](http://www.cookingfor20.com/2013/06/18/hacker-school-soylent-
recipe/)

edit: also note, the only synthesised 'chemicals' most recipes include are
potassium gluconate and calcium citrate. Everything else is a food or food
extract.

~~~
jonathanjaeger
Thanks! I'll check it out. And when I was referring to chemicals I was talking
about the broader meal replacement supplement market, not Soylent.

------
gavinpc
Does anyone remember the early post from this guy where he said that he just
wanted to stop spending so much of his time and energy on food? Now it's all
he does. He "wakes up every day thinking about it."

Now _that 's_ ironic.

------
frakkingcylons
Has anyone published a post about their experience with Soylent where they
didn't use it to replace all their meals, but just maybe one or two of them a
day? That's the use case I'm interested in.

~~~
ImprovedSilence
I agree completely, I would think that's the exact use case most of us are
interested in. It sounds like the perfect breakfast drink or quick on the go
lunch.

------
wsc981
I find this project interesting, especially since it seems to be able to lower
my cost of living (currently I buy for around 300 EUR a month of food, using
Soylent should be able to lower this to ~220 EUR from what I understand). Yet,
at the same time I worry how healthy it would be on the long term. For
example, research has shown that vitamin pills are often detrimental to ones
health and could even increase the chance of getting cancer. I wonder if
Soylent uses much the same ingredients of vitamin pills.

------
Shorel
Can we get a Keto version of this?

Bonus points for a Paleo friendly version.

As it is now, I would never get close to that carbohydrate-based drink.

------
corresation
Even though it isn't for me (I actually _like_ food, finding it one of the
greatest pleasures in life), the Soylent story still presents an interesting
storyline to me. But I've always wondered: Why the name _Soylent_? Aren't
there some negative connotations to that? Is it...made of people?

An aspect of Soylent that I don't get is the assumption that it gets you out
of the drudgery of eating, for those people for whom it is such a chore: the
idea of chugging multiple cups of gray, sludgy drink daily sounds like an
enormous burden that would grow tiring really quickly. It sounds like
something that would make you dread the passing of the day, as another cup of
slurry draws ever closer.

I speak at least a bit from experience, as one stage in my life had me working
out daily, starting each with a big protein drink. Over time I realized that I
was dreading, if not even skipping, the workout because of the protein drink
that went with it.

~~~
sker
I love food too. If I weren't a programmer I would be a chef. But just like
sex, I want to have it when I feel like it, not in a rigorous schedule
determined by society.

In fact, not eating food as often makes you appreciate it more when you have
it. Go three months without eating pizza and then have some, how did it taste?
Now eat pizza every day for three months and then have some more, how did it
taste?

I currently eat once a day and I would gladly replace some of my meals with
this drink. That would allow me to eat, say three times a week, enjoying the
food that I really crave. As a food lover, this is the perfect product for me.

~~~
corresation
_not in a rigorous schedule determined by society_

Why don't you just eat when you want to? As an adult you do what you feel like
doing. This is neither here nor there in the discussion regarding Soylent.

 _In fact, not eating food as often makes you appreciate it more when you have
it._

I fully understand and practice the idea of self-deprivation for heightened
experiences (I've followed the consumption habits of Ramadan despite being an
agnostic, for example). However this product doesn't deprive you of nutrition
or liquids, obviously, and while it does deprive you of taste (or at least
good taste), the benefit of real food is that the variety is _enormous_. You
mention pizza, for instance, yet again it isn't the choice of pizza every day
or Soylent and then the monthly pizza -- many people with good diets already
have pizza so infrequently that it is an enormous treat. The same with a
grilled burger. Or a steak. Or a lobster. Or a fresh fish. Or sushi. Or
Chinese. Some butter chicken. A turkey sandwich on fresh Rye. Or even, dare I
say it, the occasional Big Mac. It goes on forever and ever and ever, such
that if I ever lose that delight with food, I'm doing something wrong.

------
Leander_B
In my country this is called a meal replacement. I live in the future..

