
Palantir Pricelist (page 27) [pdf] - thebyrd
https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F0086U/0MII0P.2RKUT8_GS-35F-0086U_PALANTIRTSCS012814.PDF
======
bane
For folks who've never seen one of these.

132-33 - Price for a Palantir server, priced per core. $141k per core.
Includes 1 year of "maintenance" (support and software upgrades).

132-34 - This is the maintenance for second year on. $28k per core.

How many users can a core support? I dunno. But let's say you can serve 50
people off of a 4-core system (you can redo the math for the number of users).

You initial purchase is $564k. Or about $11k per user.

Each year after that, if you want software updates, it'll cost you $113k or or
about $2.2k per year per user.

So let's say you use the system for 3 years. That's over $15k of software per
user over that time.

Plus there's training ~$2k per user. Or another $100k in training costs.

And then who knows how many hours of engineering and "ninja" services. But a
CONUS (within the U.S.) FSR is billed at about $300k per year for a full-time
person on staff. Let's say you need two of them to support those 50 users.

Added up for 3 years of Palantir: $1.5million

I'll let you decide if that's good value, but that works out to around $30k
per user partial TCO (not including power, security, networking, local IT
staff support, etc.).

~~~
elblanco
I've done a bit of work with Palantir. This is basically spot on. They're
really cagey about the core/user requirement in real life so I'd be
comfortable in saying most customer over purchase cores. They usually staff
2-3 full time guys for every 30-50 people and the implementation takes
_forever_. I know of more than one place that didn't have a working system a
full year after purchase. Meaning the maintenance had already expired on that
first year.

Your later comment about the crack model is also spot on. There's a fairly
long list of disgruntled places that bought on discount and are now being hit
with huge O&M maintenance fees and are looking for a way out. I think they're
government customers are slowly going away.

They're starting to show up more overseas here. Palantir recently opened up a
Seoul office. But how much of whatever business they get out of it is
government and how much of it is commercial is anybody's guess.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Sounds... Actually doesn't sound as bad as SAP, Europe's largest software
package/manufacturer for... IDK, business software. IIRC, every implementation
requires you to hire half a dozen SAP engineers for a decent hourly rate just
to set up the system, then keep them on to train and maintain the system.

~~~
mbesto
Former SAP guy here. Yup, on the surface Palantir appears to be cheaper and
more specialized. Slightly different business model - Palantir does the
software/hardware/implementation whereas SAP focusing mainly on software.

------
incision
All right in line with just about any sort of "Enterprise" software. Training
and implementation services are downright cheap. Maintenance is the standard
20%.

The last big vendor PO I had to look at put every professional services line
item at $300-360/hr with $320 being about average.

~~~
sien
Also Palantir's software actually does something more challenging than a lot
of enterprise software.

People should go and see what small packages from Oracle, HP, Tibco & IBM
cost. It's incredible.

~~~
elblanco
Funny you should mention that. Palantir's main competition in the governmeent,
i2, is now IBM.

i2 was selling their software at some fraction of Palantir's and in the DoD
space it's basically as ubiquitous as Microsoft Office. Palantir is
everywhere, but it doesn't end up being used nearly as much.

------
aliasaria
Favourite part: "Palantir is in no way affiliated with, or endorsed or
sponsored by, The Saul Zaentz Company d.b.a. Tolkien Enterprises or the Estate
of J.R.R. Tolkien."

~~~
jamesash
Funny, but necessary. The Zaentz company is notoriously litigious. From
Zaentz' Wikipedia article: "In 2011, Zaentz's company began several legal
actions against small businesses in the UK to enforce their "Hobbit" trade
mark, including the Hungry Hobbit cafe in Sarehole, near Birmingham[13][14]
and a pub in Southampton, England, which had traded as The Hobbit for twenty
years.[15] This raised the ire of many British correspondents such as Stephen
Fry, who described it as "pointless, self-defeating bullying."

~~~
Huggernaut
As a somewhat frequent visitor to The Hobbit in Southampton, the litigation is
laaaame.

------
mikegreen
Do not confuse the GSA schedule with actual implementation cost (or TCO as
mentioned below). The prices are a starting point and as with any
relationship, they can (and will, if the buyer is smart) be negotiated.

Source: sold & implemented alot of software for the gubbmint.

------
Jabbles
_Agencies can browse GSA Advantage! by accessing the Internet World Wide Web
utilizing a browser (ex.: NetScape)_

------
amalag
You can't do diddly with an off the shelf install. They get you on the
Implementation Ninjas and Support.

~~~
elblanco
Their implementation periods are horrendous. Their marketing speak and sales
drones make it sound like a turnkey appliance...like you just drop it in,
point it to your database URLS and you're now playing with knowledge
management. But in practice there's months of custom backend Java development
(the entire tech stack is Java 1.6 or something horrible) to build the
connectors and map the data into their backend, then months of ontology
management meetings to build up the one-true-model (TM) for all your
enterprise needs.

Then months and months of post deployment tweaking and continuous work to keep
the system alive and fix issues when some of the data sources change schemas
or something.

I've heard things like average time from purchase to full deployment is
something like 9 months. But from my time dealing with them I think it's much
longer.

~~~
fishcakes
That is simply FUD – Palantir guarantees to customers that their software is
working within 90 days AND has generated results. They offer a refund if not.
Their homepage said this for a while!

~~~
elblanco
Well, feel free to buy a core and let me know how long it takes before you're
up and running. Having been on the inside during 3 of their deployments, and
on the outside of 2 more, I can definitely say 90 days is wildly optimistic.

 _edit_ never mind, after reviewing your comment history, it looks like you
probably work for Palantir. You should probably disclose that. I stand by my
comments about deployment times.

------
dkarapetyan
So what exactly do you get for those prices? Some data munging and analytics?
Just hire a few data scientists and give them a map/reduce cluster. But this
is the government so that might be more expensive than forking over the cash
to Palantir.

~~~
bane
It's less automated data analytics and more chart drawing and semantic
knowledge base management tied to a federated search system.

Their principle competitor is
[http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/analysts-
notebook](http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/analysts-notebook)

They used to have a free trial you could run via java webstart on their
website, but they've taken it down.

Here's a video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f86VKjFSMJE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f86VKjFSMJE)

It's big data in the sense that using google's search box is big data. But
from my time using their demo a couple years ago, the actual tool is fairly
small in focus. I don't even think the chart view can show more than a few
hundred things.

~~~
mayneack
It's still up: [https://analyzethe.us/](https://analyzethe.us/)

~~~
bane
Oh okay cool. That's a different demo. The old one was Operation Tradewinds or
something.

~~~
mayneack
Tradestop is what you're thinking of.

------
ottertown
was this link not meant for the public? getting a 404 now.

mirror:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20140916215429/https://www.gsaadv...](http://web.archive.org/web/20140916215429/https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F0086U/0MII0P.2RKUT8_GS-35F-0086U_PALANTIRTSCS012814.PDF)

------
judgardner
132-51 | IMS | Implementation Ninja Services

------
hendzen
If you read between the lines, notice how the "Palantir Gotham Appliance" for
151,042.82 includes "Palantir recommended...database software licenses."

I would bet Oracle (or MS/IBM) is getting a hefty chunk of that.

~~~
mmcclellan
Yeah but it's only $10k a core more. This job posting lists Oracle and
PostgeSQL:

[http://www.palantir.com/careers/OpenPosDetail?id=a0m80000002...](http://www.palantir.com/careers/OpenPosDetail?id=a0m80000002LiKaAAK)

------
dlinder
132-51 CONS CONUS FSR Support hourly rate. CONUS rates will be billed for
Services performed outside the continental U.S. unless in a warzone. Normal
business hours are defined as an 8-hour work day (rate is 15% more outside of
normal business hours). $ 146.60

132-51 OCONS OCONUS FSR Support hourly rate. OCONUS rates will be billed for
Services performed in a warzone. Normal business hours are defined as a
12-hour work day (rate is 15% more outside of normal business hours). $ 195.47

~~~
bane
I'm actually surprised how cheap their OCONUS warzone rates are. Many
contractors will pay hazardous bonuses, time in theater bonuses and living
condition bonuses on top of the CONUS base pay. Added up it can far exceed
this kind of rate.

But this is probably helpful for people getting into consulting to see what
hourly rates are for this kind of work. In my experience these rates are
actually fairly cheap. I'm used to seeing $170-200 for most things billed to
the government.

But I've also heard Palantir has fairly conservative pay caps, that might
account for the low rates.

~~~
janjongboom
What's a "time in theater" bonus? Never heard of the term & can't find it on
Google either.

~~~
bane
It's a bonus paid after spending n months in a warzone.

e.g. After 4 calendar months, $5000, after 8, $10,000.

Hazard pay is usually some percentage on top of base pay and if you're "lucky"
and qualify for "living condition pay" it's another percentage on top of that.
I have some associates here in the D.C. area that tell me at the height of the
Iraq War they were pulling down ~$300k/yr all added up, on base salaries of
$80-90k.

------
arikrak
How do they get such precise prices? If I was selling something for 140k, I
would sell it for 140k. But they sell it for $141,015.42.

~~~
pvarangot
It's GSA price. My guess is the retail price is somewhat rounder, and after
tax and other specific discounts it comes down to that.

~~~
m0nastic
Strictly speaking, being on the GSA schedule and being able to offer
products/services for sale to the federal government requires that you not
sell that product/service anywhere else for less than that GSA price.

This is actually one of the reasons that doing business with the government is
less lucrative than the commercial industry (for products and services which
are comparable, many are things only sold to the government, so there is no
hesitation about pricing them through the roof).

As you can imagine, one of the ways that duplicitous federal contractors get
around the idea of having to sell to the government for less than their normal
prices is to structure their products/services as different (and therefore not
apples to apples comparable).

I still would bet that the price that they charge Goldman Sachs (just as an
example, I don't actually know which investment banks are using their product)
is higher than what they charge for any individual government client.

Also, I think it's probably worth noting that the maximum addressable customer
base for their products for federal agencies is way smaller than the
equivalent number of financial customers. There's really only a handful of
agencies that have this capability (I'd guess more than a handful, but
probably less than a dozen).

------
xacaxulu
So Palantir is hiring if you have a clearance :-). Time to get your tax
dollars back. Looks like SAIC all over again.

~~~
xamdam
You don't need a clearance. We have large commercial deployments.

~~~
bane
I did some consulting work with the NYPD and heard you guys also have some
deployments with them and other large police forces. Those are nice non-
clearance, but cool, jobs as well.

~~~
dreamweapon
"Cool" I guess, if you consider working for the NYPD to be cool.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner)
[2] [https://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/nypd-muslim-
surveillance](https://www.aclu.org/blog/tag/nypd-muslim-surveillance) [3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-
frisk_in_New_York_Cit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop-and-
frisk_in_New_York_City)

~~~
bane
I do.

All big organizations do bad things in specific cases and have problems that
need to be addressed - the NYPD is no different. For every one of these
examples I can point to a hundred cases where some officer put their life on
the line to do their job and help do their part to make NYC a decent place to
live.

To give you an idea of how big the NYPD is as an organization, it's about a
third larger than the active duty _Army_ of Australia.

My couple times working with them showed most of the officers I encountered to
be genuinely concerned about their city and a strong desire to do a good and
fair job.

And yes of course there's lots of rallying together and supporting each other,
even when that support often doesn't make sense to an outsider. But they
really don't have anybody else they can rely on for their safety and support.
And they take enormous flak and disrespect from the public on a daily basis
for pretty much exercising any aspect of their function.

But as a large police force, the NYPD is basically a model for other large
municiple forces and are heads and tails above deeply problematic large forces
like the LAPD.

~~~
pessimizer
This conversation is totally beside any point, but stop-and-frisk has happened
over 5 million times since 2002 (9 out of 10 leading to nothing), and a
community of thousands were monitored based on their religion over a period of
years, although it never generated a single lead.

>For every one of these examples I can point to a hundred cases where some
officer put their life on the line to do their job and help do their part to
make NYC a decent place to live.

Over 500 million times?

[http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-
data](http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data)

~~~
bane
> Over 500 million times?

Yes, congratulations, you know how to multiply. You _know_ it was a figure of
speech.

Anybody can make lists of good and bad deeds about an organization and point
to why that list exemplifies some preconceived notion you already have.

Here's my list after 2 minutes of barely looking

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/02/nypd-saves-
baby_n_4...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/02/nypd-saves-
baby_n_4884928.html)

[http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-
hospital-...](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-hospital-
village-shootout-article-1.1885720)

[http://7online.com/news/exclusive-hero-cop-speaks-out-
about-...](http://7online.com/news/exclusive-hero-cop-speaks-out-about-wild-
shootout-video/69315/)

[http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/obama-praises-hero-
nypd-...](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/obama-praises-hero-nypd-
girlfriend-ceremony-article-1.1341515)

[http://nypost.com/2014/04/10/smoke-from-williamsburg-
blaze-s...](http://nypost.com/2014/04/10/smoke-from-williamsburg-blaze-
sends-2-hero-cops-to-hospital/)

[http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/13/nypd-hero-cop-
kil...](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/12/13/nypd-hero-cop-killed-by-
recently-released-violent-felon-with-a-warrant/)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_workers_killed_in_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_workers_killed_in_the_September_11_attacks)

[http://www.wnyc.org/story/nypd-includes-officers-
died-911-il...](http://www.wnyc.org/story/nypd-includes-officers-
died-911-illnesses-wall-heroes/)

[http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/610520-hero-cop-dies-nypd-
of...](http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/610520-hero-cop-dies-nypd-officer-hurt-
in-apartment-fire-dead/)

[http://www.silive.com/obituaries/index.ssf/2014/03/peter_mcp...](http://www.silive.com/obituaries/index.ssf/2014/03/peter_mcpolin_53_retired_cop_a.html)

[http://www.breaking911.com/hero-nypd-cops-save-man-from-
jump...](http://www.breaking911.com/hero-nypd-cops-save-man-from-jumping-off-
brooklyn-bridge-full-details/)

[http://epicvictories.com/nypd-officer-becomes-a-hero-
after-h...](http://epicvictories.com/nypd-officer-becomes-a-hero-after-
helping-a-barefoot-homeless-man/)

------
desmondrd
Archived version of this file on the Internet Archive.

[http://web.archive.org/web/20140916215429/https://www.gsaadv...](http://web.archive.org/web/20140916215429/https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS35F0086U/0MII0P.2RKUT8_GS-35F-0086U_PALANTIRTSCS012814.PDF)

------
phmagic
pretty affordable compared to most enterprise software packages

~~~
bicknergseng
"per core"

~~~
trhway
with 90 days warranty :) Can it rot?

Anyway, from their Gotham page [https://www.palantir.com/palantir-
gotham/](https://www.palantir.com/palantir-gotham/)

"Working closely with the customer, our engineers integrate and map all of the
relevant source data—regardless of type or volume—into a single, coherent
model.

...

Once the model has been created, data flows continuously from its sources into
the Palantir Gotham platform.

...

They can search across all of their data sources at once, visualize
relationships, explore divergent hypotheses, discover unknown connections, "

Pretty much my 2009 pitch, and in the hindsight i see that my main weakness
was that i couldn't even imagine $150K/core. Man, it is imagination what
separates losers from winners! :)

~~~
gerbal
> it is imagination what separates losers from winners! :)

Imagination and lucrative government contracts.

~~~
crazypyro
And a billion dollars that was used to pay off a competitor after stealing
their technology.

------
fishcakes
Pretty affordable considering many other things on the GSA don't work once you
buy them!

~~~
jonknee
Luckily for Palantir whether or not it works is classified. I have my doubts.
I'm sure it "works", but I'm also sure it's a giant waste of money and
Americans are not safer because we're funneling millions of dollars to
Palantir.

~~~
bane
I messed around with the demo they used to have on their website. It seems to
be very much an answer to the 9-11 failure to connect the dots problem.

Unify search, build semantic links.

It was a _very_ manually intensive tool based on what I saw. Very little
automation, more like those pictures and strings you see in crime shows on
TV...but on a computer.

------
cyphunk
Can't access gsaadvantage.gov via Tor. hmm

