

License-Plate Readers Let Police Collect Millions of Records on Drivers - joshuaellinger
http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=35851

======
gregors
I used to be a software engineer on an ALPR system.

There are things I like about ALPR and things I don't like -- it's up to you
guys to make sure it isn't abused. This technology could be abused without
oversight.

Images are taken from cameras and matched against known "hot lists" of wanted
people. Wanted for what? That depends. There's a list for expired plates
(a.k.a. revenue generation - the selling point is that law enforcement will
recoup the cost of the systems very quickly), stolen cars, murder suspects,
missing people, sex offenders. There is even a notion of a "secret" list where
the cops operating the system aren't even aware of what the analysts are
looking for. These systems can also do geofencing -- if a plate for a known
sex offender is spotted within a certain distance of a school, they're busted.
Lots of stolen cars have been recovered via ALPR -- and remember most serious
crime starts with the criminals obtaining a stolen car.

The system can also be used for internal investigations -- for instance there
was a cop who was stalking his ex-wife who happened to have an ALPR. They
pulled the capture history and her license plate came up multiple times. So
he's busted.

Depending on how the system is set up they could store and back up the images
and geolocations forever. There is current pending legislation regarding how
long they can store data. The highway patrol can only store data for 60 days,
most police departments have no such limitations. Update it looks like this
failed--[http://gizmodo.com/how-automated-license-plate-readers-
threa...](http://gizmodo.com/how-automated-license-plate-readers-threaten-our-
privac-493400783)

Given enough mobile and fixed ALPR cameras the end result would be the same as
having a GPS tracking device on everyone's car. I don't see why citizens
should subject themselves to that long term data collection.

How about controls? Anyone querying the data leaves an audit trail behind.
There are lots and lots of auditing and authorization levels built into the
systems. That being said if something isn't configured correctly as was
depicted here...
[http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/08/technology/security/shodan/](http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/08/technology/security/shodan/)

Something to note, this technology is out of the bag. In the future 3M which
makes most license plates are going to be adding QR codes to license plates.
[http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6029](http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6029)
You won't really need specialty cameras.

Presently there isn't a national database for ALPR but they're working very
very hard to make this a reality. It's up to you guys to make sure this
technology is used with proper restrictions and oversight. As I heard out of
the mouth of a salesman after a sale to a middle eastern country "Hey regimes
are great for business!"

~~~
buro9
> Given enough mobile and fixed ALPR cameras the end result would be the same
> as having a GPS tracking device on everyone's car. I don't see why citizens
> should subject themselves to that long term data collection.

The common argument for privacy in relation to democracy, is that:

If being associated to a political group will be counted against you and the
data from such a system could be used to prove your attendance or affiliation
to such a group...

...then you are unable to freely express your political beliefs as a
consequence of being tracked.

~~~
mikegagnon
Exactly.

Too often I hear people say "I don't mind personally." But it does affect
everyone, since it chills political speech which hurts democracy.

------
oogali
_sigh_

I'm going to cross-post from another forum, where we had a similar discussion
on ALPRs.

My reply was in response to how a town can use ALPRs to justify the layoffs of
2-3 parking personnel.

"Nope, the way you justify this is you don't pay for it.

The way it actually works is the manufacturer employs a team of grant writers,
whose job is to know about any and all municipal, county, state, federal
grants. In conjunction, with a team of lobbyists to influence the increased
disbursement of funds to towns to help in the "war on terror". And the cherry
on top, is the team that works with each state (or each regional purchasing
authority) to get the manufacturer's products onto the approved list of law
enforcement-related purchasing items.

The manufacturer then sells 2-5 systems to your town as a way of increasing
revenue collection for the cost of $0 (see, grant writers?) plus annual
maintenance cost. Your town sells it as a way to crack down on drug dealers
and other undesirables. The manufacturer gets about $100K in revenue at this
turn.

Then the manufacturer sells professional services to integrate the camera
lookup system into your town's DMV, property tax, and criminal databases. So,
you're not limited to just parking tickets _.

Then the manufacturer sells the use of a certified company employee as an
"expert witness" in case you need someone to testify to the accuracy of the
system during a court proceeding (that is a result of their surveillance
technology).

Then they sell the mapping/GIS software integration at a rate of $300/mile
driven for cities, and ~$80/mile driven for highway patrol/state troopers.

_ __I seriously wish I was joking about how the game is played. __*

This is what happens when you base all of your municipal revenue on inflated
real estate prices/assessments and the floor disappears from under you. You go
scrambling for any sort of revenue you can get.

* = I've talked to some officers and detectives in my old town, and they state that they turn the system off when riding with it, because it generates so many hits that they cannot possibly respond to each individual one. My suspicion is that its _both_ that, and the cost per mile driven."

And someone else's follow-up to my post:

"Thanks, you gave me the perfect lead-in to explain my comment.

A lot of these will receive "grant money" from the DHS with the stipulation
that the culled data is fed to the DHS for their global database.

There was a PBS Frontline on this subject about a year ago."

------
ericcumbee
My small home town in Georgia has one of those. I really like the fact that
they are doing a lot to take drivers that have no insurance, no licence, or
registration off the road. Those people are why we pay so much for car
insurance. From what I heard the local PD took out a combo 30k loan/grant to
buy a set of those. They wrote enough tickets in the first week to cover it.

On the other the idea that they are logging every time, and place they see
your vehicle is very disconcerting to me.

~~~
sokoloff
Insurance and registration are tied to the vehicle.

License is tied to the person, and I'd hope that solely recognizing the plate
of a car owned by someone with a suspended, revoked or never-existing license
doesn't represent probable cause to stop the car and check out the driver. I
suspect some PDs probably claim it is.

~~~
dylangs1030
I disagree. I think that is probable cause.

I don't think there should be a penalty for it, but it's definitely worth
checking out.

For example, if there's a man with a suspended license and no wife or kids, it
would be suspicious for his car to just be on the road.

~~~
ensignavenger
If you own a car, and your license is suspended- what are the chances you are
going to either a) loan your car to a friend or family member; b) ask a friend
or family member to drive you somewhere (possibly in your own car) to get
groceries/run other errands? I think the odds are pretty good.

~~~
CamperBob2
Easy enough to clear that up when the car is pulled over.

I agree, it's fair game for probable cause. Otherwise, they couldn't pull over
a car driven by bank robbers or kidnappers on the basis of its license number.

------
sp332
Original article: [http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-
polic...](http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-police-
collect-millions-records-drivers-4883)

Maine, New Jersey, and Virginia have limited the use of ALPRs, and New
Hampshire has banned them outright, according to
[http://www.infowars.com/automated-license-plate-readers-
thre...](http://www.infowars.com/automated-license-plate-readers-threaten-our-
privacy/)

~~~
forgotAgain
If you drive into Manhattan your plate is scanned. Every entrance has
permanent readers in place.

------
herf
I read about LPRs a while ago, and since then I've noticed the cameras
_everywhere_ , all over LA. They are so much more prevalent than you think.

The hardware is cheap enough ($1000/camera) that there's no purely financial
reason private interests couldn't start using them, e.g., for billboard
advertising, etc. But for sure the idea is pretty scary.

------
DanBC
UK has had these for a long time. They first appeared in the "ring of steel"
around the financial district in London, and Heathrow Airport. But they've
spread out across the country.

We also have a law that describes what a licence plate must look like.
([https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-
plates/overview](https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number-plates/overview))

I have no idea what happens to the data these machines collects - there's
potentially a lot of information about people's movements there.

~~~
tikhonj
Wow, I am actually very impressed with that Gov.uk page: it was easy to
follow, clear and seemed to have the right amount of detail to cover _most_
questions without overwhelming me. It also had links to relevant outside
resources.

On top of this, it actually looks pretty good--far better than I would expect
a government website to look!

~~~
gregors
and most of it is on github
[https://github.com/alphagov](https://github.com/alphagov)

------
KenCochrane
The same technology caught Soulja Boy's car as the one who caused a hit in run
a few months ago. The article goes into some of the details of how he was
caught.

[http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/23/soulja-boy-bentley-
impounded-h...](http://www.tmz.com/2013/05/23/soulja-boy-bentley-impounded-
hit-and-run-police-cameras-lapd)

Updated to fix link.

------
anemitz
Steve Jobs famously re-leased his SLK every 6 months and never put plates on
it -- seems like a great way to avoid this type of tracking if you're in the
financial position to do so.

~~~
chaz
No need. New cars in California come without license plates. Instead, you get
a temporary registration document affixed to the inside of your windshield and
plates are mailed to you in a few weeks. It's your responsibility to put them
on.

OR, you can simply not put the plates on and blend in with all the other new
cars -- and there's no shortage of new cars in the Bay Area. Usually, the
dealer has placed their own cardboard/paper license plate with their own
company logo in its place. When I bought a new car, I just flipped it around
so it was just plain white.

As long as your car is a late model and reasonably clean, with the
registration stuck to the windshield, cops probably won't bother pulling you
over. Parking tickets may still be issued from the VIN. If you are pulled
over, you might get a dressing down and a fix-it ticket to put your plates on
within x days. You can do this for as long as you'd like to press your luck.

~~~
CamperBob2
The truth is even weirder: in California there is a "celebrity exemption" that
allows one to drive around with no license tags at all, if one meets certain
qualifications.

Apparently you do get a bar code (according to one 2005 article), so the
exemption would be of no use against automated readers. It just keeps ordinary
citizens from being able to identify your car.

~~~
chaz
No, this is a myth. Many manufacturers (including MB) put a tamper-proof
sticker with the VIN (sometimes barcoded) on every body panel of the vehicle
so that theft or replacement can be detected. One location is behind the rear
license plate.

[1]
[http://pictures.dealer.com/m/mercedesbenzoftampa/1069/537b8d...](http://pictures.dealer.com/m/mercedesbenzoftampa/1069/537b8ded9300b34641252cd6883c77f0x.jpg)
[2]
[http://bimmerboard.com/members/q/original/VIN%20located%20be...](http://bimmerboard.com/members/q/original/VIN%20located%20behind%20rear%20License%20Plate%20E38.jpg)
[3]
[http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showpost.php?p=3856500&postco...](http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showpost.php?p=3856500&postcount=4)

~~~
CamperBob2
Hmm, I'm having trouble finding any evidence for the public figure exemption,
so it sounds like you're right. They certainly don't seem to advertise it on
the DMV site, at least.

------
cbhl
I recognize that there are security implications for this sort of technology,
but I think that if we used it properly, the convenience would be well worth
the trade-off.

For example, in Ontario, ALPRs were used in conjunction with RFID to build a
toll road that was free of toll booths in 1997. (Politics later led the toll
road to be sold by the provincial government to a privately-owned European
company, which has been surprisingly good at maintaining said tollway, even
during winter storms.)

------
Dnguyen
I see that the police patrol your neighborhood pretty often. Also, the other
question to ask, if possible, is how many times they spotted stolen cars,
expired plates, and "criminal" cars in your neighborhood? With that data, I
think it could help police track down burglaries faster. After a while, the
cars that case the neighborhood will stand out with a few records, whereas the
resident cars will have many records.

~~~
dllthomas
"After a while, the cars that case the neighborhood will stand out with a few
records, whereas the resident cars will have many records."

Along with all the cars that are just visiting friends in the neighborhood,
&c. I'm not saying it couldn't be useful, but it should be treated with care.

------
rayiner
I'm conflicted about license-plate cameras. On one hand, I think there is
definitely the privacy risk. On the other hand, if we had speeding cameras
everywhere (like in say Sydney), we'd have a lot less need for traffic cops
and all of the abuse that comes from them.

~~~
tonylemesmer
The cameras are operated by cops. Therefore there is still abuse.

~~~
tptacek
He's talking about a different kind of abuse: when police actually pull you
over, they can troll for additional offenses, for instance by having a drug
dog false your car.

------
sambeau
You can't drive onto Manhattan without being read by one of these.

------
e3pi
Bicycle license plates? The Dutch still use them? Anywhere in the US?

Boats? Yes:

Every vessel in Puget Sound, Washington State, is tracked with cameras and
radar. We see two stereo cameras mounted on top of the channel marker from
Rich Passage at south end of Agate Pass.

I've read this is now all part of the USCG-Coast Guard, the NW is in District
14(?).

------
soundgecko
What's to stop individuals or companies from using the same tech to collect
data? After all, what you do in public is public, and private detectives are
allowed to follow and film their targets in public to show their clients and
use in court.

~~~
ratsbane
There are very good reasons for some businesses to use ALPR technology.
EasyPass and other automatic toll-collection schemes use RFID tags on cars to
uniquely identify them. There are parking-lot control systems that use RFID
tags to allow access to paid parking lots. ICS, the largest vendor of car wash
management systems, sells an RFID subscription package. One of their tags is
on my car's windshield:
[http://www.icscarwashsystems.com/index.php?product=17](http://www.icscarwashsystems.com/index.php?product=17)

ALPR has some technical and business advantages over RFID. The RFID car-
identification solution has been around over ten years; ALPR wasn't as
effective then. If it has been, we'd probably have ALPR toll-collection
systems instead of RFID.

I hope this pushback against ALPR won't extend to private uses of it for
reasonable and limited purposes.

~~~
thrownaway2424
We _do_ have ALPR toll systems, at least here in California. You can leave
your Fastrak RFID in your kitchen drawer forever, as long as you associate
your license plates with your Fastrak account.

~~~
ratsbane
Nice. I didn't know that. I wonder when they started that?
[https://www.bayareafastrak.org/vector/dynamic/signup/VTconfi...](https://www.bayareafastrak.org/vector/dynamic/signup/VTconfirm.shtml)

