

Cisco Sued By Chinese Political Prisoners Over 'Golden Shield' - dools
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/fighting-chinas-golden-shield-cisco-sued-over-jailing-and-torture-of--dissidents-20110816-1ivkv.html

======
suprgeek
Kinda paints a rather troubling picture of one of the biggest tech companies
in USA.

Also, Cisco intimidation tactics:
[http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/cisco-
resorting-i...](http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/cisco-resorting-
intimidation-tactics)

A pound of flesh: how Cisco's "unmitigated gall" derailed one man's
life:[http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/07/a-pound-
of-f...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/07/a-pound-of-flesh-how-
ciscos-unmitigated-gall-derailed-one-mans-life.ars)

~~~
sixtofour
Every billion dollar company is capable of this and more. A billion dollars
changes people. You can watch it play out year after year over a lifetime.

~~~
Joakal
Warren Buffett too, despite the positive reception to his altruistic political
suggestions by others on HN?

------
est
In a previous GFW internal disclosure, most of GFW devices are actually from
Huawei and ZTE. GFW is a national defence project from the start, there was a
Taiwanese spy intel leak that was successfully intercepted by GFW few years
ago, which leads to decline of ISBase and rise of VenusTech. VenusTech is
currently de facto operative company of GFW.

People of Fa1un Gong has tried to sue Cisco for years over Golden Shield
project, which what they meant to sue is GFW. The funny thing is, GFW project
has totally nothing to do with Golden Shield project. They are totally
different projects run by different government divisions.

------
Hyena
How do these suits work? Presumably, Cisco has done nothing wrong in China and
therefore isn't liable.

~~~
keane
ATCA -
[https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Alien_Tort_St...](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Alien_Tort_Statute)

------
spartyfan10
While this is definitely pretty crappy of Cisco to do, it also doesn't seem
illegal. Working with the Chinese to block peoples' freedom isn't something
the US legal system has any jurisdiction over. Cisco was simply turning profit
on a very un-American project.

~~~
keane
That's actually not true. See _ATCA_.

------
alanh
Complicit = guilty

------
ars
Flagged for utterly inaccurate title!

They are being sued for creating free-speech blocking, and people tracking,
technology.

Jailing and torture may have been done by the Chinese, but it has nothing to
do with CISCO - not even indirectly.

Submitter did you even read your own article? Not even the people filing the
suit are claiming that.

And I quote:

"They aren't just selling routers to a corrupt regime. They are selling the
technology, training and software specifically designed to monitor, censor and
suppress the Chinese people," said Mr Ward.

"And they are doing so knowing full well how the CCP treats dissenters."

~~~
dools
The title of the article is "Fighting China's Golden Shield: Cisco sued over
jailing and torture of dissidents".

The HN submit tool wants < 80 characters, I figured that "Cisco sued over
jailing and torture of dissidents" is more informative than "Fighting China's
Golden Shield".

I've been warned before by pg about "editorialising in the title" so I reused
the title of the article verbatim. If you have a problem with that, take it up
with pg

~~~
ars
The title is:

Cisco Sued By Chinese Political Prisoners Over 'Golden Shield'

It seems to have a second title though, but the first one is much more
accurate.

~~~
dools
I've updated the title to be the title of the target page now, rather than the
"headline" (I guess that's what you'd call it).

------
Shenglong
Every time I read one of these anti-China articles, I secretly chuckle at how
I've never once met a Chinese citizen who has felt oppressed, in China. The
chuckling goes a step further when someone inevitably responds, "they just
don't know they're being oppressed!" Yeah, there are a few cases that are
less-than-acceptable by our standards, but what do these people expect, when
they try to cause a Cultural Revolution 2.0?

Anyway, back on topic:

I can't imagine Cisco losing this case. They're competing in a market, and not
_trying_ to torture people, or enable it. If they win, essentially any company
providing supplies to China could be considered aiding in torture. Ridiculous.

~~~
naner
_I've never once met a Chinese citizen who has felt oppressed_

Same could be said about NK.

~~~
wisty
That was probably true a decade ago, as North Koreans were effectively
brainwashed. That's been changing, due to obsolete Chinese media devices
getting smuggled across the border, which North Koreans buy on the blackmarket
(along with other illegal stuff like, um, food). They share South Korean TV
shows, and start to ask questions.

Chinese generally know what is going on in their country. They are often
pretty blunt about not liking the government. But they don't generally feel
oppressed, as the government only cracks down on stuff that's an existential
threat to them. Try to overthrow them, and you will get oppressed. But
otherwise, the government tends to be quite liberal.

OK, the government does hold huge amounts of land, which is an invisible kind
of tax. They also have high taxes, on the people who pay tax. And low interest
rates, and controls on banks lets them create other invisible taxes. There's
also a big difference between the rules, and what is _regularly_ enforced, so
people think they are very hands off, when they can be officious pricks at
times. And criminals - drug dealers, thieves, etc. are punished very severely.
But really, look at a street in China, and a street in the USA. See which one
looks "freer".

