
The orangutan trap - benbreen
http://aeon.co/magazine/science/can-orangutans-coexist-with-humans/
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vinchuco
Expected something chess-related [1]. This appears to be a different type of
game with many players and different understandings of the rules.

[1] 1.B4 Opening
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9jaaKUWwBI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9jaaKUWwBI)

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imteamcoltra
I was just thinking today that if we are allowed to cage animals who have the
mental development of a 6 year old, why can't we justify caging people who
have the mental capacity of a 6 year old.

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Kenji
Oh it's all speciesism. A human has more inherent worth in the common human
morals. It makes zero sense from a logical point of view, probably an
evolutionary remnant.

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danieltillett
Speciesism is ridiculous concept. Humans are inherently worth more than other
animals. This does not mean that we should go out of way to maltreat animals,
but when the choice is a human life verses an animal’s life then the human's
should always come first.

In regards orangutans we can certainly do a better job of ensuring both can
exist.

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rawTruthHurts
> inherently worth more

According to what scale?

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danieltillett
Ask yourself how many animals you would kill to save you own child. If the
answer is a number without limit then there is no morality in letting someone
else child die to save some animal.

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rawTruthHurts
Oh... so it's a scale set by you... :(

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danieltillett
No it a scale set by everyone who has thought about this issue for more than
five minutes. Are you really telling me that you would let your own child die
so some animal can live? If so you either have no children nor should you.

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adamnemecek
The worst part is that the recent FDA trans fat ban will only boost demand for
palm oil, thus making this issue even worse.

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knowtheory
The FDA's ban on transfat is almost entirely after the fact. Transfats have
been on the outs for a long time, and their use has declined in accordance.

The rise in the use of palm oil has more to do with people thinking that
because it's natural, it's "healthy" for you (which is really only true if
your baseline for comparison is eating tubs of margarine) thanks to folks like
Dr. Oz.

So, since you can't see my eyeroll at the downvotes, here are citations:

NPR piece noting that transfat usage has dropped by 86% before the ban:
[http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/06/16/414906829/fda...](http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/06/16/414906829/fda-
to-food-companies-this-time-zero-means-zero-trans-fats)

And somewhat surprisingly the wikipedia article on the nutritional & health
effects of palm oil is pretty well cited:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Palm_oil#Nutrition_and_healt...](https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Palm_oil#Nutrition_and_health)

tl:dr; Transfats are bad for you. That's why they don't sell them. Palm oil
isn't vastly healthier than other oils. Eat less fat.

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gnoway
I think what you might be missing is that your 86% number is from the Grocery
Manufacturers Association, which is an industry trade group. I would not take
that number at face value. I also wouldn't assume that group speaks for
restaurants or even all grocers.

Also, the use of an oil doesn't contribute linearly to the trans fat content
of whatever is fried in it. Users of hydrogenated oils for frying, for
example, are purchasing gallons and gallons of the stuff on a regular basis,
with most of that being discarded as waste. Yes, most of the big name fast
food chains in the US have switched to other oils, but it's not clear whether
all have or to what extent. There may still be a sizable bump in purchases of
replacement oils, including palm.

Finally, even if the 86% number is ironclad and extends across the entire
prepared food and food service industry, it represents a relative drop against
an unknown whole. It says nothing about the absolute volume of hydrogenated
oils still in use. IMO this validates the parent's concern.

This plus the general flippant snark of your comment and the weird Dr. Oz
reference is why I downvoted you.

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knowtheory
for what it's worth, that was neither flippant, nor snark. A lot of people
listen to Dr. Oz and he has promoted the use of palm oil as healthy.

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x5n1
Why have we not genetically engineered all the other ape species on our planet
with language and intelligence (at the very least language) and given them
legal rights as people that they can defend in court.

The only way to give animals right is to give them a voice literally.

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s_kilk
Because we don't even understand what causes language and intelligence in
ourselves yet.

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x5n1
We have some ideas and clues. Just gotta share some of those differences and
see what happens. Do that a few times and you have intelligence and language
in apes. We already put apes through horrendous experiments, what's a few
more? We should at least be working on this as a goal. Otherwise these other
species will go extinct it's a matter of time.

