
Amazon pays £1.7m corporation tax in the UK - GW150914
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45053528
======
PunchTornado
so on £80m profit, they paid £1.7m tax, only 2%.

God, if I was a corporation too, instead I pay 40% taxes on my salary.

~~~
charlesdm
They're not paying "just" 2% in their entire structure. Those profits flow
back through various entities, to the US (where they will pay additional tax),
to the shareholders (either ultimately through dividends or buybacks, which is
subject to tax again).

~~~
heavenlyblue
So how is US related to the people living in the UK? I don’t see US paying for
the police making sure their offices aren’t looted on a daily basis.

~~~
charlesdm
They're creating jobs in the UK, on which those employees pay income tax,
which contribute directly to the UK treasury.

Those jobs wouldn't be there without the US company that is Amazon. Having
Amazon invest in the UK is a net win for the country. In addition to corporate
tax, they likely also pay indirect taxes, such as business rates on property,
stamp duty, and (some) VAT.

If you were to flip this, I take it you prefer a company such as BP pays all
of their tax in the country they operate in, and very little in the UK? Most
assets are not UK based, after all. That's the same reasoning.

~~~
kennydude
They're creating contractors who have to pay their own tax on top of the
horrific expectations Amazon thrown on them.

Not exactly the best.

~~~
charlesdm
Never did I say they were creating amazing jobs. Most lower end jobs suck. But
they do bring in tax (or end up reducing the amount of social security
payments that need to be paid otherwise) -- both are net positives.

~~~
heavenlyblue
Their subcontractors bring in tax, not them. And Amazon are not creating the
jobs that working class wants, since they give no future guarantees.

~~~
TheGrumpyBrit
A job you don't want is better than no job at all.

~~~
heavenlyblue
A job you don't want but have no other choice, is a job that occupies the
space of the other jobs, that potentially could be better. Amazon is an entity
that is concerned with growth, but not with creating the society that works
for an another century.

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tonyedgecombe
I can't see corporation tax lasting in the long term, the obvious solution to
these problems is to tax capital gains and dividends as if they were income.

~~~
occamrazor
This could work if unrealised capital gains are taxed too. This is however too
difficult, and susceptible to other kinds of fraud, if applied to non-quoted
companies.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
True although we are talking about a quoted company in this instance.

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funshed
Well, its easy to blame Amazon but at the heart of it our tax system sucks.

~~~
xroche
Well, it's also easy to blame criminals but at the heart of it our legal
system sucks. /s

~~~
dbbk
Criminals break the law... Amazon is not breaking the tax code.

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jf-
It’s criminal, but the tax system is designed to let them get away with it.
Tax needs to be radically overhauled. If any US company complains that they
can’t afford to pay their taxes and make a profit at the same time, fine. Let
them leave, then indigenous corporations can take their place, with state
support to get them going if necessary.

Edit: For our US readers, describing something as ‘criminal’ is a fairly
common British turn of phrase to describe something grave, not a literal
implication of criminality. I’m sure the players involved are literally
playing by the rules. Those rules just happen to be broken.

~~~
sneak
It’s not criminal, it’s complying with the law as written.

It also excludes the payroll tax which they must pay, which is monumental.
These types of articles are just outrage-generating clickbait.

~~~
jf-
Oh gosh, they have to pay payroll? My heart bleeds for them. So does every
other company out there. You know exactly what I mean.

~~~
gambiting
The point is that they could be paying zero corporation tax, and yet Amazon
would be responsible for a stupid amount of tax being paid in the UK. But of
course the corporation tax seems very low in comparison to their earnings, so
it's an easy target to complain about.

~~~
jf-
I’m kind of blown away by the comments this is getting. Do people actually not
realise that every other company also pays their employees and also happen to
pay corporation tax? Meaning that comparatively Amazon is paying massively
less? How is that point not getting across?

~~~
charlesdm
People realise. People either 1) don't care, or 2) like more competition in a
market, generally leading to lower prices. Not having to make profits means
Amazon entering a market often lead to lower prices in the shorter term.

Also, wealthy people (or those moderately well off) can avoid tax with a
decent understand of tax law. So they might not care. Plenty of people only
care about optimising their own returns on capital and effort invested. If I
can sell a business for £10m and somehow pay no tax legally, vs selling and
paying 20% capital gains tax -- I would always prefer to pay absolutely
nothing. Shocker.

Last, I have a good understanding of local and international tax law, and
while the system is somewhat broken, it's not massively broken -- steps are
being taken internationally to fix major issues.

~~~
jf-
Can you elaborate on these steps?

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dang
Would you please edit the personal swipes out of your comments here? Leading
with those (like you did here and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17679652](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17679652))
sets discussion in a poisonous key, and we're trying for better than that
here.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
jf-
Edited, let me know if you want them to be toned down more.

~~~
dang
Appreciated! I've detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17679792](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17679792)
and marked it off-topic.

~~~
jf-
Thanks

