
Stop looking for a cofounder - vanni
http://swombat.com/2012/1/12/stop-looking-for-cofounder
======
rmason
When it comes to cofounders I'm greatly influenced by PG's advice. If you find
the right one it does increase your chances of success.

However settling for a less than perfect fit for a cofounder can actually
decrease your chances of success over going solo. Once you're out of school a
few years the best candidates have careers, wives and houses and just won't
take the chance no matter how great the potential payoff.

~~~
michaporat
relevant - <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3353163>

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scrozier
I've found that "looking for a technical co-founder" often means:

"I had my father's colleague's son build a prototype for us. It does almost
everything the final product needs to do. It took a couple of months and only
cost us $4000. But he (the son) is now going out on tour with his band, and we
need someone to get us to launch."

This is almost inevitably a set-up for disappointment for all parties. Non-
technical founders _have no idea_ what software development costs and how long
it takes. They will be shocked at reality and blame it on you, the tech co-
founder.

Potential tech co-founders will waste a lot of breath explaining things to the
non-tech co-founders that they (the non-techs) will struggle to understand.

Eventually, everyone will be mad at everyone else.

Problem is, much of this also applies to hiring free-lancers. They are going
to cost far more than the non-tech founder predicts. The only difference is
that the free-lancer will get paid for (some of) his/her work.

Though I'm no huge fan of the VC/start-up model, it's no wonder that it
evolved to its current state, where potential ventures are judged largely on
their teams' proven ability to deliver.

~~~
michaporat
that's why you need to find a strong technical co-founder (which is really
tough to do well). Because going as a single founder on your own will be
tough, and it's always good to share the road with someone you trust and has a
similar purpose.

Wrote a blog post on 5 creative ways to find a technical co-founder -
<http://bit.ly/rQdvpK>

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dmk23
There are just a few very simple steps to decide whether or not you should
"look for co-founder"

[1] Take a good look at what needs to be accomplished to build and scale your
business

[2] Identify critical missing pieces you do not have expertise with or do not
want to do

[3] Estimate how hard/easy it would be for you to manage these pieces
yourself, with some hired help

[4] Weigh pros/cons of possible dilution / distraction / misfit vs. likelihood
of acceleration / risk reduction / strength in numbers

[5] Make up your mind on what is the right way to go and GO FOR IT!

IMHO, saying "you always need a co-founder" is a cargo-cult-like mindset.
There are plenty of successes and failures doing it with or without one.

The only thing that ACTUALLY matters is whether you can put together something
that will make money. Whether or not you had any co-founders along the way is
about as casually related as whether building an airstrip attracts cargo
planes (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult>)

Just determine what you actually need and do not get distracted by people
trying to mold you into their perception of the "ideal".

~~~
troll24601
Not to mention that it's much easier to attract a cofounder if you've actually
made some progress.

~~~
swombat
Only a bad one. A good cofounder will want to own the idea. Making progress is
counter-productive.

However, having made progress on _something_ is a good way to attract a
cofounder for _something else_ later.

~~~
mhartl
This might be true of an equal partner, but bringing someone on board with,
say, a 20% stake is easier if you're further along.

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csomar
_Hiring a freelancer is not that expensive. You can hire someone for a month
--for a couple thousands dollars--, and a month is plenty of time to build a
prototype if that’s all you’re doing._

Seriously? Customizing a WordPress Theme costs between $1,000 and $2,500.
Building (Design+Front End Programming+Back End Programming) a fully-fledged
WordPress magazine theme can cost between $15,000 and $20,000.

If you are not a software developer, and your start-up core product is
software: just don't do it. Don't take OP advice. This might work out if your
product is physical and you are using the web to deliver. (Also there are
cloud services that will help you and are cheap).

Anything that involve software requires co-founders to be technical. Web
Development is as expensive as hell. Small features requires lots of time and
Freelancers bill hourly. I'm telling that because I just finished some custom
slider for a client costing him more than $1k. Yes, just an image slider.

~~~
tfb
Is this slider viewable by the public? I'm honestly curious about what a $1k
image slider looks like.

~~~
scrozier
$1k for an image slider strikes me as completely reasonable. As _csomar_
relates, lots of work goes into something as "simple" as an image slider.
That's why (as I mention in a separate comment) non-tech folks will always
struggle with the cost of development. If it were easy/fast/cheap, they would
do it themselves.

~~~
shuzchen
$1k also sounds cheap for an image slider, assuming that it was made from
scratch, tailored for the client's specific purposes and had all the related
issues (cross browser, graceful fallback, etc etc) taken care of.

If the task could've been solved by configuring any of the 9000 free image
sliders out there (I've opened sourced a dojo-powered one too), then $1k is
really expensive.

------
pagehub
I totally agree, I have done something similar to this. Instead of waiting to
find someone I just got started on my own.

Tough at first not having someone to bounce ideas off but after the first hire
it's fine :-)

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americandesi333
When I started my little idea 7 months ago, I was really scared about this
reality of looking for a cofounder. Now, I not only have a kickass co-founder
who believes in my vision, but also have a team of 6 people who are driving
our product to launch, all of this without getting a single penny or equity in
exchange (not yet, but something I am changing as I want these people
longterm).

What I am trying to say is that, I think looking for a cofounder depends on
what you are trying to build. If you are trying to build a long-term
sustainable company, then the fact that you can influence and motivate someone
to join your vision is very powerful. Therefore, getting a cofounder to join
your cause is a huge testament to how well you can succeed, something that
should not be discounted.

That being said, its also important to evaluate the skillsets you need to have
a successful company and to slowly enlist a cofounder based on those needs. I
hung out at every tech event, spoke to as many people about what I was doing
and slowly started to see that there was an ecosystem of people that started
believing in my story.

So, its doable, thats all :)

------
devs1010
So, is this just an article advocating outsourcing? Because I don't know how
else you could hire a programmer for a month for a couple thousand dollars

~~~
mootothemax
_So, is this just an article advocating outsourcing? Because I don't know how
else you could hire a programmer for a month for a couple thousand dollars_

I think the implication is that if you can't afford to hire someone to code
for you, you aren't going to succeed at running a startup.

Why? Because you should be good, really good, at _something_ , whether that's
your current day job, being able to sell your plan to others - friends,
family, acquaintances, bank managers... - or having the self-belief and
determination to fund the entire venture on credit cards.

Although that last one might be... risky ;)

~~~
devs1010
Good point, i just think the author is a bit off on how much it would actually
cost to hire someone

~~~
swombat
For a simple prototype, you shouldn't need more than a few thousand, and you
should be able to cajole a decent freelancer in building you _something_ for
that amount.

If you can't afford that amount, then either learn to code yourself, or pick a
different idea that is actually within your reach.

If the MVP for your idea would cost $100k to build, and you don't have $100k,
pick a different idea.

There are so many ideas out there, you need to pick ideas you can actually
implement with the means at your disposal.

~~~
mwd_
Is "cajoling" the path to victory? Perhaps you mean something different, but
this reminds me of a common, sad type of Craigslist post. Frequently you see
ads posted by people with ideas for software who think they ought to be able
to get somebody to be their code monkey for $25/hr or so. Many of them are
completely clueless as to why they get crappy software and must spend so much
time replacing people who quit. Most frequently they seem to blame the
situation on bad developers.

Going rates aside, one thing many people (including freelancers!) do not
realize is that paying somebody $30/hr gross for a 2-month contract is not
even remotely equivalent to a permanent salaried position that works out to
$30/hr. Contracts frequently include billable hours and there's tons of
negotiation for jobs that fall through. There's generally less security and
there are fewer benefits. I've also noticed that there tends to be more time
pressure on a lot of the little contracts.

I think it's reasonable to multiply hourly rates by a factor of 2 or so for
contract jobs. This is why you have a market with $90,000 salaries and
$100-150/hr contract rates. If you try to get somebody for $3000-4000 per
month you'll either be lucky and get a student or something or you will get
the sort of person who couldn't find anything else. If you do get lucky, your
freelancer will not stick around very long because they will find much better
opportunities.

~~~
devs1010
Agreed. This is definitely true, unless your product is so trivial that it can
be done in a few days, it will take some investment from them.

As far as prototyping, well not sure exactly what is meant by this as it could
mean hiring a designer who knows some javascript to hack together some pages
that act and feel like a real app but that is just a hollow shell. In this
case, sure you can get this done somewhat cheaply but it can only then be a
bridge to getting funding as its still going to take an investment to build
the actual application.

------
DividesByZero
I was frustrated in looking for a cofounder, so I built the very basics of the
prototype myself, then continued to talk to people about it and show what I
had done. Pretty soon, people became interested enough to ask about getting
involved.

Engaging a freelancer might help you get to that proto-prototype that will get
you real engagement.

------
rjj
I love Daniel's thoughts and advice, it always seems to hit right at the
"excuse of the month" I'm telling myself about not starting up.

My only question is: What's a "swombat"?!

~~~
swombat
A mythical animal filled with wisdom, compassion, and skittles.

------
sb1752
Does anyone here have stories about how they have looked for a co-founder and
actually found one? How did it work out?

~~~
windsurfer
I have been "cold-called" via email a few times from non-technical people
looking for a technical co-founder. I'm still a student at the moment though,
so I feel like anyone that I should be working with in the near future should
lead in the technical aspects.

I have no idea how it has worked out for these people.

~~~
devs1010
yeah, I get these too from time to time, they go straight to my trash folder.
I have my own ideas for startups so I would never just "hook up" with some
random person to join their venture for equity only unless I already knew them
well and respected them. Of course, if they are actually willing to pay money
then its a different story.

------
vdm
The original^2 post: <http://sachagreif.com/stop-looking-for-a-co-founder/>

It wasn't linked from the OP, so I had to trawl for it on Twitter, where it is
sure to get lost within a few days.

~~~
swombat
It is linked - the whole title is a link to the OP on all my linked posts. I
often refer to the post in the article body too, but forgot in this case. I've
fixed that now.

~~~
vdm
I'm used to looking at linked post titles as permalinks, so I missed that.
Thank you for the correction, and the insight in your post.

~~~
swombat
No worries, you're not the first one to get confused! Funny thing is, I copied
John Gruber's model (see <http://daringfireball.net> ), and it seems to work
very well for him. Not sure why people get confused on my site and not on his
(but maybe they get confused there too!)

I want the title to be linked to the destination article so they get any link-
juice I may have to give associated with the article. The little star thing
next to it is the permalink.

------
bkyan
I agree with this article in terms of a non-technical founder looking for a
technical co-founder, but I'm not totally sold on the converse situation -- a
technical founder looking for a business/marketing co-founder...

~~~
scrozier
Yes!

And speaking at least for myself, I've found that I'm just as capable of
underestimating the difficulty of marketing as non-tech folks are capable of
underestimating the difficulty of software development.

------
davidw
Something else worth mentioning is the 'cargo cult cofounder'. In other words,
"I read that you're supposed to have one, so I'd better get one".

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teju
I've heard that single-founder startups are frowned on by investors. Is it
harder to raise money without a co-founder?

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easymovet
Exactly why I started apphammers.com : )

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kenrik
Interesting, I think it depends on your situation which route you take if
you're coming straight out of college I think it's much easier to find a
classic "co-founder"

Once you're in the "real world" with an income etc. You have more options as
to how you approach things.

For example I happen to work inside of a old media industry that my company is
_going_ to bring into this century. I have access a support network, industry
contacts and advice from people who will be my future users and supporters. I
can't express enough how valuable it can be to sit down and speak with people
who have been working in the field for 20, 30 or 40 years over a cup of
coffee. it gives you a different perspective and it helps to get paid while
getting the experience that will be helpful in growing your business.

Everyone has a different path to get to where they want to be I think the most
important thing is that you commit yourself to the journey.

------
Slimy
Relevant: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=77246>

~~~
swombat
Thanks, added!

