

Why IE will continue to win the enterprise browser wars - snydeq
http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisewindows/archives/2008/09/internet_explor.html

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makecheck
I agree with the conclusion, but not the logic.

A much more likely cause for IE supremacy is an established set of enterprise
"web" applications, where these (badly written) "web" applications are so
broken outside IE that they might as well be Win32.

If executives sank money into applications that now run the business, and find
that IE keeps those applications running, they're more likely to establish an
easy policy like "IE only". They are not likely to spend money to "fix" the
"problem" that non-IE users "created".

As ideal as it would be to inform executives that it is Microsoft's broken
code that actually created the problem of bringing in new browsers, I
guarantee they won't see it that way.

~~~
josefresco
Can you point to at least one "established set of enterprise "web"
applications" that supports this claim?

~~~
edw519
Every enterprise has their own. It's called their "intranet". Many written for
ie only (they may not have even realized it at the time).

No one wants to rewrite their intranet just to support a marginally better
browser.

~~~
whatusername
As far as I can tell - IBM have finally finished porting all of their intranet
apps to support firefox.

So there 350,000 users or so..

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mattmaroon
"What is your motive or business case for orchestrating the rollout into your
environment?"

That right there is why business IT changes at such a snail's pace. There's a
tremendous difference in mindset between tech businesses, and businesses that
use tech to save money, streamline processes, etc.

A lot of people in the startup community proclaim that businesses will be
switching en masse from Windows and Blackberries and Office to Apples and
iPhones and Google Docs, and it's exactly that sentence that they don't get.
Even if newer products would be better for them (and they might) it would have
to be a lot better to justify the expense.

All Microsoft has to do is remain good enough.

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iigs
_Notably, Moskowitz explained that Firefox -- which you would think would be
designed to easily administrate with Group Policy -- cannot be controlled. The
reason: "It uses JavaScript files," he says. "There's no Group Policy way,
right now, to handle 'odd' file types like .JS or XML files."_

So it's Mozilla's problem that Microsoft's Policy tools are ridiculously rigid
and inflexible?

Actually, I don't know anybody who cares if IE wins or loses in the corporate
browser world. It's nice to delineate your business/intranet and
public/personal activity into other browsers. In fact, to me it's preferable
that there's a "legacy" browser to fulfill the web application equivalent of
fax-machine duty. I don't envy the work that the IE team has to do to maintain
compatibility with ancient and awful applications kludged together for IE 5.5,
and I _really_ don't want that stuff in the browser I visit public sites with.

As for the set of people that think the power goes from the wall into the
"hard drive" and that the internet is a blue "e" icon on the desktop, I stand
by a previous comment I made ( <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=302947> ),
in that I think IE should be vehicle for modern web experience ActiveX
controls.

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ken
Hmm. Here's a really stupid question.

Would it be possible to write a proxy which would convert IE-only (or
IE6-only) webpages into equivalent standards-compliant webpages on the fly?

(I don't know CSS, and especially IE's mangling of it, well enough to know if
this problem is AI-complete or not.)

Edit: In case it wasn't obvious, the point would be to make the app work just
as before. Simply running an anti-htmltidy would be pointless.

~~~
dmose
Anything is possible but the end result would be a clean response stream
thats' compliant but the application would be horribly broken.

My mind melts just thinking of the king of regex matching you would need to do
to pull this off.

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loumf
The easiest thing browsers can fix is to tie into Windows Authentication so
that when I go to my intranet, they just log in for me with my OS credentials.

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sanj
Put up your hand if you've successfully sold into an enterprise.

No one?

Then come back when you have.

The ability for the IT shop to have control over their users is a real reason
that apps don't get deployed. Walk into the mouth of LDAP once and you'll
understand. When you have 10k users, with 200 people worth of turnover or
changes a day, you won't understand why they "won't just use our web
interface!"

Until you believe it and understand it, you're going to keep writing off
customers because their priorities in keeping their users happy and functional
don't jibe with your new whizzy app.

~~~
edw519
My hand is up. (You said "No one?" too quickly.)

True, the enterprise is a different animal, but it _can_ be sold and you _can_
make a difference. Some of my most memorable successes have been turning an
ocean liner by selling them my software and creating a win-win-win for
everyone.

 _The ability for the IT shop to have control over their users is a real
reason that apps don't get deployed._

Not my experience.

 _you're going to keep writing off customers_

I have never "written off" a customer because they were hard to sell. I only
"write them off" if I don't see a profit opportunity.

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mlLK
The fact that IE is still pulling in big numbers is simply a sign of the
times, and I believe it's volume of use and prevalence will eventually _die_
off in the years to come. In short, the majority of computer users i.e. people
are technically irrational and old, aka your typical Baby Boomer. I speak in
stereotypes only to illustrate my point. _sighs_

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umjames
What a great advertisement for getting out of enterprise IT and starting your
own business!

I'd always prefer to just try a new idea, then to get permission from my
manager and my manager's manager to try that same idea.

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chaostheory
I'm not a network admin but I don't quite understand his logic... why can't
you enforce group policy on a higher level (something like how OpenDNS can
filter specific sets of sites)? Am I missing something?

~~~
Niten
IE's Group Policy encompasses a whole lot more than which particular sites the
web browser is allowed to visit.

<http://www.ie-vista.com/group_policy.html>

~~~
chaostheory
most of IE policy control seems shallow except for permission to modify
settings...

