
Can Science Breed the Next Secretariat? - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/39/sport/can-science-breed-the-next-secretariat-rp
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phillc73
That's actually a reasonably balanced article. Genetic testing in thoroughbred
horses is just another tool amongst the many other ways of looking at the
breeding equation.

However, the Equinome test is starting to make an impact in British and Irish
racing. It is well known that the British 2000 Guineas winner this year,
Galileo Gold, was not entered for the longer Epsom Derby because he tested as
CC, rather than the CT thought to be omptimum for the distance. This is
perhaps the first published occasion a genetic test has resulted in a trainer
not entering his horse for a specific race, and a classic at that.

We work closely with Byron from Performance Genetics, mentioned in the
article, when buying yearlings. Byron uses a very wide range of tests, not
just of the genetic variety, but also analytical data analysis, when making a
determination of a horse's potential ability. Nonetheless, we have a number of
other criteria to initially narrow the pool of horses we want to test. We also
place value on the visual physical attributes of the horse.

Lastly, it is worth keeping in mind which horses are most valuable in a
commercial sense. Even after all the testing, it is no guarantee the horse
will perform at the highest level. Rather the testing is about creating an
edge over other buyers. Therefore, it is important to keep in mind which
horses will continue to have residual value in the market. It is better to
take a risk on a popular sire, than an unfashionable one, unless of course the
initial purchase price is also just as unfashionable.

~~~
WalterBright
I know there's lots of money involved, but breeding faster (and better visual
physical attributes) horses is ultimately uninteresting and pointless.

What would be much more interesting would be to do things like breed smarter
dogs.

~~~
gwern
Breeding smarter dogs is not interesting because after a certain point, the
intelligence becomes a problem. Not just things like octopuses eating all the
fish in your aquarium but escaping, or going insane from boredom and
inactivity and becoming destructive. This is already an issue with border
collies, among the most intelligent of dog breeds. Why would you want to make
the problem _worse_? If you want to breed any species for intelligence, breed
humans - at least there it's useful.

~~~
WalterBright
What is the issue with intelligent border collies?

Wouldn't a more intelligent dog make a better companion? Just keep them away
from the internet so they cannot plot an uprising with the other dogs.

~~~
dexwiz
They get bored easily, and boredom leads to destruction. Herding dogs need to
be worked regularly.

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WalterBright
If dogs are bred to herd, it seems reasonable that there'd be trouble if they
aren't herding.

But many dogs know several hundred words. I hypothesize that with breeding
this could be increased substantially. Perhaps even sentences. I'm not
convinced that would cause them to be destructive.

~~~
gwern
> If dogs are bred to herd, it seems reasonable that there'd be trouble if
> they aren't herding.

Chimpanzees aren't bred to herd but are at least as intelligent, and keeping
them in captivity is even more problematic than border collies: neurotic,
destructive, difficult to keep safely contained, super expensive to 'retire'
and care for. Which is one reason that countries like the USA have been trying
to phase out primate research as much as possible.

~~~
WalterBright
Keeping intelligent creatures like chimps in cages for life is abusive and
clearly wrong. If we create intelligent dogs, treating them in a manner
consistent with their intelligence comes with the territory.

~~~
gwern
Yes, that's my point. Treating a chimpanzee well, at a primate retirement
center, is extremely expensive and difficult to the point where governments &
scientific organizations have trouble and are trying to avoid having to do in
the future. Nor are zoos cheap to run. And people are already having
difficulty keeping their border collies occupied and treated in a manner
consistent with their existing high intelligence. (Not that dogs in general
are treated optimally - think of how many fat dogs there are, or how many have
to be put down for 'behavioral problems'.) And you think it's a swell idea to
make the situation worse? It's not.

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rch
Why breed when you can just print one out?

~~~
godzillabrennus
Why raise horses when you can race cars?

Because we can.

~~~
rch
I get that sentiment, completely. But what happens when breeding becomes
irrelevant in the face of genetic engineering?

Doesn't matter to me; I prefer polo.

~~~
lfowles
Eh, just like cars I imagine you'd have "stock" classes and "modified"
classes.

~~~
douche
May we never have any "funny" horses...

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funny_Car](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funny_Car)

~~~
lfowles
I suppose that would be horses with muscle hyperplasia?

(For reference, here's a whippet with that condition:
[http://s30.photobucket.com/user/breakzhabit/media/Stuff/2192...](http://s30.photobucket.com/user/breakzhabit/media/Stuff/2192-640.jpg.html)
)

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Aardwolf
Coincidence? I only recently learned about Secretariat from Bojack Horseman,
which released a new season just a few weeks ago.

