
What Went Wrong at Borders - mikecane
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/01/what-went-wrong-at-borders/69310/
======
patio11
I have a serious book habit, and Borders used to be my go-to bookstore in the
US. Or was it the Barnes and Noble. Well, you know, one with a B in it at any
rate.

In over a decade of patronage, I cannot recall ever having a single successful
conversation with a staff member (other than "These books, please.")

The bookstore receiving 50% of retail price for providing fungible copies of
books, bitwise identical to those offered by all other bookstores, without
even a scintilla of value-add, has struck me as something in urgent need of
radical corrective capitalism.

By comparison, Amazon recommendations are routinely as good as my sister's,
their customer service has been top-notch, their prices are cheaper, and the
Kindle has transformed my experience with the medium and quintupled my
consumption. I am in no danger of confusing Amazon with another shop that
starts with A.

~~~
cobralibre
_In over a decade of patronage, I cannot recall ever having a single
successful conversation with a staff member (other than "These books,
please.")_

The problem with big box booksellers is that they can't possibly win on
customer service, because their customer base is too diverse, and no single
employee can begin to satisfy the customer service needs of such a broad range
of tastes and needs until they've spent years both learning the store's
inventory and building a mental model of customer types and their preferences.
But it's a retail job and the rewards are meager, so there's little incentive
to become this ideal bookstore employee, though they do exist; the employee
you do end up with is either a thwarted English major who despises you (this
was once me, I'm sorry to say) or the avid reader of bestsellers -- and if
that's not a good fit for you, too bad.

The achievement of Amazon is that they've actually done a decent job of
automating what an ideal generalist bookseller does.

(Specialty bookstores are another story. In those cases, you can more readily
assume that the preoccupations of the bookseller and the customer will align.)

------
lukev
This saddens me. Borders have always had nicer stores for a book lover than
B&N... I can immediately tell if I'm going to like a bookstore by whether they
display books cover-out, or on a shelf with the spine out. This immediately
indicates whether they emphasize a large, diverse inventory, or focus only on
mass market material. Borders did it right, unlike most other stores including
B&N. They have an especially large technical inventory.

Their books were overpriced, of course, but they actually sent out 30%-50% off
coupons weekly, bringing them basically to Amazon's levels - so while I did
the bulk of my book-buying on Amazon, I really enjoyed dropping into the store
every week or two and browsing for something fun to buy.

~~~
jcw
I didn't know that, are they still sending out these coupons?

~~~
BarkMore
Yes, I received a 33% off one item coupon yesterday. They sent 50% off one
item coupons around the first of the year.

I never buy anything at Borders without a coupon.

~~~
caseyboardman
Me either. And they come out all the time on their twitter feed:
<http://twitter.com/#!/borders>

------
edw519
Borders (noun) Bor'-ders - a coffee shop where one previews books they'll buy
online for 40% less.

~~~
adamc
Ethically problematic, but yes.

~~~
lukev
Why is it ethically problematic? There is no implied assumption that I will
buy something when I walk into a store. People comparison shop _all the time._

And as long as you aren't damaging the books, and as long as the store isn't
so crowded that you're discouraging other potential customers, the store
looses absolutely nothing by having you there. In fact, they always gain
something - there's always the off chance you'll see something and decide you
don't want to wait for it to ship.

~~~
stoney
For me it's a grey area. For a small specialist shop where I receive useful
advice? I'd almost definitely pay the higher price in return for the service
offered by the shop. For a bookstore where all I did was wander around on my
own occasionally looking at product? I don't know. I'd like for book stores to
continue existing, but I don't know if they're worth the premium.

------
Umalu
What went wrong at Borders? Easy. They have a ubiquitous competitor who offers
customers 1,000x the selection at lower prices. The only benefit Borders
offers is immediate gratification for those who can't wait a few days, or a
week, for their books. Borders has had the stench of death for a long time
now. I'm wondering whether Barnes & Noble is next.

~~~
dmlorenzetti
_The only benefit Borders offers is immediate gratification for those who
can't wait a few days_

Or for those who want a meaningful preview of a book before buying.

Over the years, I've saved much more money by avoiding purchases of books I
imagined I would like, than I've saved by buying from discount warehouses.

Libraries are one way of doing this, but for new technical books, my local
Borders was a go-to place.

~~~
ianferrel
One thing to consider here is that Amazon accepts returns. You have to pay a
bit for shipping, but you could easily buy a copy of each book you might want,
keep the ones you do, and still end up ahead.

~~~
dmlorenzetti
Thanks. That's at least an option, especially once/if the local places close.

I will still feel bad about it. With the Borders coupons, I usually ended up
spending no more than I would at Amazon, anyway. And I really like the
experience of browsing. I often end up with three or four books spread out in
front of me, dipping into each one, comparing their style, presentation, TOCs
and indices, etc...

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jburwell
I had no idea that Borders was in financial trouble. I have always preferred
them over Barnes and Noble because they always have a wide selection of
technical books. Unlike B&N which has aisle after aisle of VB, * for Dummies
books, and their ilk, Borders is a place where I have discovered great books
on niche technical topics. It will be sad to see them go -- buying a book
physically provides a far greater visceral stultification than buying online.

~~~
ja27
As a book lover, I'm happy in either store, but Borders has always been my
preference. They always seemed to carry more titles and somehow feel to me
like less of a big corporate store. (I'm a little biased, having spent quite a
bit of time around Ann Arbor and the original store even before it moved.)

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ben1040
There was once a wonderful independent bookstore here in St. Louis whose sales
floor was 2x the size of the average B&N or Borders. They were run by people
who _knew books_. I especially appreciated how they had a really good
selection of technical books, way better than any of the chains.

They had big community book fairs, they ran the only coffee shop that was open
late for a mile in any direction, they brought in local music acts.

In '97 the owners decided to retire and sold the whole operation to Borders.
Borders ran the store for about a year or two and then shut the whole place
down when a huge strip mall development containing a Borders store opened a
mile away.

In hindsight I guess they planned that new store all along, and bought out the
little guys because they didn't want the competition from someone who actually
knew how to run a better bookstore.

~~~
jws
Library Ltd was a spectacular store with a national reputation from a single
outlet back in the pre-WWW days.

A 1996 article:
[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is_n4_v84/ai_181...](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is_n4_v84/ai_18149391/)

I stopped buying books when they closed. B&N and Borders were useless
substitutes for me.

------
larrik
I never understood how Borders became so big and powerful. They charge list
price for everything! Walmart's destruction of local stores is easy to see.
Grocery chains too. But Borders? They offer little advantage over an
independent bookstore, and plenty of disadvantage.

I always assumed I just missed something along the way. Or I'm just too young
to have really compared them.

~~~
ja27
Borders regularly emails out coupons for 33% off of a single item. That brings
their price closer to Amazon.

[http://www.bordersmedia.com/coup/20110111sa33.html?cmpid=SL_...](http://www.bordersmedia.com/coup/20110111sa33.html?cmpid=SL_20110111)

~~~
nhangen
Any one item, which I find to be an insult. Rather than worry about which book
on my list I'm going to use the coupon for, I can buy 2 on Amazon and have
them here in 2 days.

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JacobAldridge
I find it interesting that the OP mentions Jeff Bezos as someone who has "a
deep attachment to books and the people who read them".

My understanding was that Bezos chose books for Amazon after writing a list of
things people could carry in one hand, and decided Books was the biggest
market on the list.

In trying to find my source for that on Google, I came across plenty of other
explanations for why he chose Books as the topic to sell - they may discount
my previous belief, but none of them make the case that he loves books or that
books led to the business. All seem to claim that the need to create an
internet business came first, books were a means to an end.

~~~
ja27
I shouldn't even attempt to recap the story, but it's really interesting to
look at how Bezos selected books. He wanted something with a lot of unique
products/SKUs that was cheap enough for people to try buying online for the
first time. Books and CDs were two of his front-runners.

I wonder if back then he realistically considered the possibility that either
or both could someday be delivered electronically?

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iantimothy
When Borders came to Singapore, it became the bookstore with probably the best
selection of books in stock. It easily became my favorite place to browse and
buy books. Two recent incidents stood out which made me realized that Borders
was in trouble before I became aware about all the news of it really being in
trouble.

They replaced their information counter with a computerized system that failed
miserably in helping me locate a book I wanted. The book in question was
Carlos Ruiz Zafón's 'The Angel's Game'. My friend had shared about the book
over dinner and some of us had decided to get a copy. We went down, searched
for it using the computerized system, was informed that the book was available
(at least that's what the system seem to be saying). It could not be found
anywhere on the shelves (where the system said it was supposed to be); more
importantly, none of the staff could help us. In short, the new information
counter was useless.

In the early days, the information counter was run by people who knew and
loved books. The proof of that was: 1\. They could always help locate the book
physically. 2\. If the book wasn't in stock, they would also be spot on in
recommending a similar book that would interest me. It was the second point
that got me buying a couple of extra books.

The lost of knowledgeable counter staff in hindsight was indicative of a
culture shift in Borders from that of being a place where people passionate
about books gathered to a place where shit got sold and it just so happened to
be books.

The second incident was noticing that valuable store space was being used to
sell toys and kitchenware. Yes, kitchenware in a bookstore.

In the end, I got 'The Angel's Game' and Carlos Ruiz Zafon's 'The Shadow of
The Wind' at a local store <http://www.booksactually.com/>. I recommend this
store to anyone who love books and is in Singapore. Clear showcase of how
domain knowledge and intimate customer relations can help a local institution
compete against the scale and supposedly lower prices of steam rolling
multinational companies.

~~~
jseliger
This is doubly funny because both _The Angel's Game_ and _The Shadow of the
Wind_ take place in or around Sempere and Sons, a small bookshop in early 20th
C Barcelona. The proprietor is always a "Senor Sempere" who is integrated with
the neighborhood and understands its needs; much of the appeal of the shop is,
of course, the books, but it's the Sempere(s) working there who make it
different. Words like "integrated with the community" have been so debased by
politicians and others that they barely mean anything, but if they still did,
they would apply here.

The depictions of Sempere and Sons are certainly romanticized, but they still
point to a desire for knowing someone who really, deeply knows books. If
Borders once had that desire or those kinds of people on staff (even in
corporate), the OP in the Atlantic indicates they no longer do.

~~~
iantimothy
Haha. Yes! Growing up with the ubiquity of libraries and books, I found it
quaint that finding a book was something considered difficult enough that it
was a job of professionals and that a premium was paid for the effort to
locate the book. I can imagine how quaint I would look when sharing with my
children about the process of physically browsing to find hidden gems; "Dad,
you mean you didn't find books liked by your friends from your Facebook wall?"

Which of the two books did you prefer?

------
stcredzero
Years ago, I worked at a Borders competitor for a little while: Joseph-Beth in
Cincinnati, Ohio. Things might be different now, but back then, that store
kicked ass! Somehow, the store managed to have a bunch of passionate people
working there, and it showed.

One of the things that we did was "don't give up" customer service. We
absolutely did not give up on finding something until the customer did. Google
was new in those days, and I also remember multiple "oh my gosh, that's
freaky" moments from customers coming in with the vaguest, weirdest clues and
still somehow finding the book for them.

I remember going into a Borders around that time and noting that the help
wasn't nearly as persistent, but I went into a Borders about a year later and
thought: "Hey, they must be copying Joseph-Beth now!"

------
ramen
I worked at Borders after the dot-bomb, since my car was broken down and it
was the only job I could find that I could ride my bike to. I bought a bunch
of programming books with my employee discount and then realized what a
complete chump I was - the exact same books, online at Amazon, were cheaper
including (free!) shipping than in the store _with_ my employee discount. I
quit soon after and got a job writing code.

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daimyoyo
Amazon should buy them. Then you'd be able to go to your local store, browse
and buy right there. Also you could ship your order directly to the store for
free the same way walmart does.

~~~
showerst
IANAL, but my understanding is that this would give Amazon a 'retail presence'
in most US states, thus requiring them to charge sales tax on online
transactions.

------
johnohara
Borders has no competitive advantage if the book isn't in stock. The minute it
has to be ordered Amazon becomes the better solution.

~~~
cobralibre
Sadly true. As pleasant as brick-and-mortar retail bookstores can be (and I've
never said this about a Barnes & Noble), their space constraints force their
inventories toward lowest common denominator titles -- meaning NYT
bestsellers, Oprah Winfrey selections, and self-help books. Internet retailers
have the so-called long tail sewn up.

Another indicator of retail inventory shortcomings is the "special order"
process. It's been several years since I've special ordered a book from a
brick-and-mortar retailer, but it generally involved a two-week wait, and you
were often requested to examine the book on the spot without leaving the cash
register area. If the big bookstore chains have removed the friction from this
process, I don't know about it.

In fact, it seems that Barnes & Noble and Borders have responded to Amazon's
inventory advantage by actually gutting their selection further and dedicating
more space to tchotchkes like Michael Bublé CDs and chocolate truffles. A
shame.

------
6ren
I love the Borders experience; is there some way "books + cafe" can work with
some other business model? Maybe... an internet cafe, but with Kindles plus a
book-binding machine?

Would there be any benefit to a virtual bookstore, where you can first-person-
browse the shelves? Sounds silly, but you get some of that serendipitous
discovery. It would probably need ridiculously high resolution for book spines
to be readable from the distance one normally browses at.

Of course, all that could be done from home if you have an espresso machine.

------
johnwatson11218
I always enjoy spending time at borders for the coffee and the chance to
browse books that I wouldn't think to pull up on Amazon. One thing that I that
really annoys me is that sometimes I'm comfortable, I am deep in thought and
then one of the workers is near by and their radio starts to crackle. Usually
they are being asked to come to the front of the store or check the
availability of an item. I know they need the radios to do their job but it
really destroys the ambiance. After they go through all that trouble with the
lighting and the decor to create a space where you can disappear into a book
why don't they invest in some bluetooth headsets or something to communicate
with their employees? I'm not sure if it is Borders but some stores also buzz
messages over the PA systems and I think why??

------
snorkel
Purveyors of dead trees need to take a serious look at printing books on
demand in the store at price that competes with online prices. Stock the
shelves with a few full-price deluxe copies, and print discount copies on
demand in store.

------
huertanix
I used to be a huge Borders customer, but over the past few years, they became
useless at having anything in stock or being able to easily check if anything
was in stock without calling the seven or so stores in the greater Phoenix
area. I like being able have a book in my hands the same night I hear about
it, so I prefer brick and mortar stores (and I don't like e-readers much).

If they can solve this problem the way Powell's in Portland has (one giant
bookstore with everything in stock and two or so subject-specific bookstores),
then I'd still be their customer.

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shaunxcode
I used to frequent the borders in provo utah. The computer science section was
actually decent for a while (I snagged a copy of ansi common lisp, the little
schemer and the structure and interpretation of classical mechanics) from
there. The last time I was down there they were seriously playing country
music. I'm not trying to be a snob (maybe I am) but this was like garth brooks
esque pop not johnny cash - this was lyrics about boot skootin and drinking -
the absolute diametric opposition to reading. Good riddance.

------
wglb
I have very fond memories of that first store in Ann Arbor. Perhaps it is too
bad that the Borders brothers sold and did not keep pushing their vision as
they expanded.

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hariis
I like the concept of "niche" stores that happen to sell books. Case in point,
here in Portland, we have a New Age bookstore that sells all kinds of stuff
from books, cds, dvds, clothing, all kinds of accessories and conducts events
for the community, and of course has knowledgeable and passionate staff and so
it has become like the hub for the New Age folks. It's doing very well too.

I wonder if this is the way to go for other niches too.

------
JoeAltmaier
Summary: slow to adapt to internet; didn't have "book people" running it,
whatever that means.

~~~
rtperson
> whatever that means.

Let me put it this way. You're looking for a new CEO for a fashion outlet. You
have two top candidates: one who has an encyclopedic knowledge of shoes,
dresses, designers, and how to spot a knock-off from the genuine article. The
other guy ran a very successful chain of grocery stores.

Now, on one level, selling clothes is just like selling anything else --
groceries, toothpaste, power tools. You have your marketing, your in-store
experience, etc. But your grocery store guy will lack the one thing the
fashion guy has: namely, an intuitive sense of what makes an otherwise
rational consumer spend far too much on some shirt just because it says
"Armani" on the collar. Your fashion guy knows who his customers are, who they
talk to, what they read, and what motivates them to open their wallets. That
does not mean the fashion guy will do a better job, but he does have a
distinct competitive advantage over the grocery guy.

What happens when you don't have a guy like that at the top? Well, Apple
nearly tanked after they pushed Steve Jobs out the door in 1986. Jobs'
replacement, an ex-CEO of PepsiCo, simply didn't understand the Apple customer
the same way Jobs did.

Hence "book people." People who understand why people buy books, and how books
are different from socks and celery.

~~~
patrickgzill
I think part of it was not just the CEO, but the buyers were not as good as
they used to be. Thus the books chosen were not the right selection, leading
to further deterioration.

Might I pimp my previous comment on an earlier Borders-related thread? ...
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056531>

