
Marissa Mayer Shuffles Yahoo Leadership Team - lando2319
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/marissa-mayer-shuffles-yahoo-leadership-team/?_r=0
======
Animats
No mention of search at all. A year ago, Mayer was going to put Yahoo back in
the search business.[1] Yahoo resells Bing search, for which Bing pays Yahoo.
Yahoo's own search engine was discontinued in 2010. The deal with
Microsoft/Bing is up for review, and Yahoo has the opportunity to exit. Yahoo
hired a new head of search last year, but his area of expertise was
negotiating with Microsoft. The Yahoo search announcement seems to have been a
bluff to get a better deal from Microsoft/Bing.

This year, search doesn't even get a mention.

[1] [http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/11/technology/yahoo-
mayer/](http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/11/technology/yahoo-mayer/)

~~~
bane
Honestly, search is not a market I'd ever want to get in. Even if you build a
strong ad network for it, ads are paying less and less and unless you have a
new approach that give results that are a quantum leap better than google,
you're going to fight a losing battle.

I mean, after Google, Baidu has ~11% of the market (and actually gives
passable results for English), Bing has ~10% (after spending billions), Yahoo
has about 9%, but is basically just Bing (so maybe Bing has 19%?) and after
that there's AOL, Ask, Lycos, Excite there's also Yandex, Naver, Exalead,
Gigablast, Munax, Qwant, Sogou, Soso, Youdao.

There's also Metasearch engines: Blingo, Yippy, DeeperWeb, Dogpile, HotBot,
and a dozen more.

There's tons of language or geographic specific specific ones: Biglobe,
Accoona, Goo, Miner.hu, Walla!, etc.

And then there's all the specific engines like Yelp, CareerBuilder, Glassdoor,
and hell, Reddit's search even counts given how much content is on Reddit
these days.

This is not a space I'd want to fight in, search is fracturing, the
monetization story doesn't look good long-term, and nobody seems to have
figured out a way to search that's fantastically better than keyword + some
graph weight + heuristics

If I were Mayer, I'd be looking for a way out of search as fast as possible.

~~~
joelrunyon
> ads are paying less and less

Do you have proof of this on a search level? On a display level, I'd agree
with you, but anecdotal, things seems as competitive as ever in search.

~~~
adventured
It's very likely that Google's search CPC rates have been falling or stagnant
for years. Given the size of search in the makeup of their ad revenue, you can
hardly have falling CPC rates for 3.x years without search being partially
responsible (at the absolute minimum, rates are stagnant in search).

[http://searchengineland.com/google-cpc-declines-dont-
mobile-...](http://searchengineland.com/google-cpc-declines-dont-mobile-
advertising-problem-197141)

~~~
tim333
I had the opposite impression, from a friend who does adwords for a living and
articles such as:

"AdWords Cost Per Click Rises 26% Between 2012 and 2014"

[http://www.adgooroo.com/resources/blog/adwords-cost-per-
clic...](http://www.adgooroo.com/resources/blog/adwords-cost-per-click-
rises-26-between-2012-and-2014/#sthash.9PERb6ub.dpuf)

~~~
joelrunyon
Parent comment is talking about the entire ecosystem - not the specific
markets.

As new markets emerge, it's less competitive (in those markets) and then
prices drop (which drop the avg).

In general, CPC doesn't mean much if you talk in total aggregate (you need to
look at the specific markets) and CPC still doesn't address volume (which is
the other half of the equation).

I'm guessing most of the people decrying the search ads are doing so from
anecdotal evidence rather than statistics.

------
deftnerd
What I don't understand is that there is the impression that that Tumblr isn't
doing well because it hasn't broken out of the teenage and 20's demographic.
By forcing changes to try to extend to more age demographics, they risk
alienating the ones they already have. They could simply just focus on the
teen and 20's demographic and wait it out until they get older and are
entrenched in the platform.

~~~
tptacek
It's not totally that simple. When they acquired Tumblr, the valuation was
dominated by goodwill --- 750MM of it --- which was explained in part by the
value to Yahoo of exposing Tumblr's users to Yahoo's monetization systems, and
of integrating Yahoo technology directly into Tumblr. If that plan goes out
the window, they may need to formally account for that, which can hurt their
numbers.

~~~
funkyy
IMO Yahoo is dinosaur that cannot see easier ways to monetize Tumblr. The site
has so many potential, yet Yahoo decides to go the usual - advertising and
data sales.

~~~
cwyers
To be fair, Tumblr's monetization strategy was to sell to Yahoo and let them
figure it out. And what are these easier ways you speak of?

------
rdtsc
Is there a good track record of Yahoo-sized companies that got back on top of
their industry by shuffling executives around? Seems like more often than not
failing companies are always characterized by lot of shuffling in an attempt
to "do something" and in the end stay the same or get worse.

~~~
MicroBerto
I think the whole point is that this Khalaf gentleman is a total rock star and
gets/deserves more power.

~~~
gajeam
It's true. He did a great job at Yahoo's mobile developer conference this
year.

------
gyardley
The smartest thing I ever did was to sell my startup to Simon Khalaf's.
Marissa's made a good move here.

------
clusterbits
I wonder if Yahoo will get back on track. Marissa is doing an extraordinary
good job. I would say that if all measures Marissa is doing don`t help Yahoo,
nothing can help Yahoo.

~~~
Bootvis
Why would you say that? Not that I disagree but I don't have any information
that causes me to agree with you.

~~~
mtrimpe
The simple fact that you're talking about this now is already a rather mighty
feat.

Before Marissa took over Yahoo wasn't even worth mentioning anymore outside of
sentences containing the word 'downhill' or equivalent.

~~~
Bootvis
It's a tech company with a market cap of $42bn and see was the fourth CEO to
take the wheel in 2012. Of course, what happens at Yahoo! is news and that the
conclusion that it went downhill during all the board shuffles makes sense.
But I'm not sure this proves she is doing great:

Certainly seems to be in a better state than before. That can be credited to
Marissa Mayer. A look at the stock price[1] seems to confirm she indeed does a
good job.

However, one might argue that's just mean reversion at work: they hit a bad
streak followed by a good one. The fact that this shuffle remembered me of the
Henrique de Castro mess makes me conclude see is not doing an 'extraordinary
good job', just good.

[1]:
[http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=YHOO](http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=YHOO)

------
staunch
Apple was saved through the creation of a series of world-changing products.
Yahoo doesn't even seem to have creating breakthrough products as a goal. They
have no excuse for not making something people want.

~~~
yeukhon
I think Yahoo is simply too quiet. To be honest the only thing that keeps
popping up these couple years about Yahoo were

* email

* Fantasy Sport

* Flickr

* Yahoo Finance

* Mayer

* Tumblr

* Alibaba sale

The first four have existed for years. I bet a lot of Tumblr users don't even
know Yahoo owns Tumblr now. Yahoo search is probably getting more notice given
now Yahoo search is Firefox's default search engine (at least that's the case
in North America).

Yahoo has some great ideas like the Digest app and doing some great mobile and
streaming products, but I don't use them, and I don't always hear my coworkers
and my friends talking about Yahoo (well except my friends who are working for
them, but they are still pretty quiet about what they are working on).

Maybe their Yahoo Original series will catch on some fire.

~~~
kleer001
I liked Yahoo pipes, but they're super limited compared to IFTTT

~~~
skuhn
Pipes is a dead product, it's just waiting for someone to remember to turn off
the light. Even in 2011 it was on life support.

It's a great example of how even when Yahoo hits on something interesting,
they will neglect it and fail to profit from it. Instead IFTTT launches 4
years later and gets a $170mm valuation.

~~~
kleer001
> Pipes is a dead product

It totally is. Is there something that can rise from the ashes or was it just
a waste?

~~~
skuhn
At least when I was at Yahoo (many years ago), there was zero apparent desire
to even continue to operate in that type of service space. I guess Yahoo wants
to be a media company and sell ads, not provide APIs to do nerd stuff for
free.

I would look to Zapier or IFTTT instead. I haven't used Zapier, but the fact
that they actually charge money (shocking!) gives me hope. Maybe they can
actually build a business around it.

------
pcunite
Give her time. She did not start with a lot in my opinion.

~~~
rgbrenner
I agree... but it has been 3 years since she took over. At some point people
are going to want to see actual results. And so far Yahoo has gone from $5b in
revenue in 2012 to $4.68b (2013) to $4.62b last year. (Even by quarter:
Q4-2014 is 10m in revenue less than Q4-2013... and net profit dropped by more
than half)

I understand there's a lot to fix at Yahoo.. but how much more time is she
really going to have without posting real results?

Edit: link:
[https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:YHOO&fstype=ii](https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:YHOO&fstype=ii)

~~~
shawndumas
She should have as long as Yahoo is in the black. It's appetant stockholders
greedy for short term gain that are screaming to lay-off gainfully employed
people. People that are producing real and substantial profit quarter after
quarter.

She should pull a Dell and drop the pack of vultures hoping for a takeover.
Then she could continue to do the awesome surgery to rid Yahoo of its cancer.

~~~
rgbrenner
Yahoo isn't even keeping up with inflation... much less kept par with average
IT-industry growth.

If it were a private company, she would have "as long as Yahoo is in the
black"... but Yahoo took money from other people. Those people are going to
want a return at some point.

~~~
shawndumas
The vast majority of the current market cap is Alibaba and Yahoo Japan. Heck,
all of it by some accounts. The stockholders will get their money back. The
stock price reflects this.

7b* in profit is substantial and it'd be a travesty if 15k people lost their
jobs for a little short term action.

*[http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=yhoo%20profit](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=yhoo%20profit)

~~~
rgbrenner
_4.6b is profit is substantial_

No, they had 4.6b in revenue. Their operating income was 146m for 2014...
(which is a big drop from the 590m in 2013, and 565m in 2012).

Re edit: I see you edited the profit number to 7b. This number includes 10b in
one-time asset sales during 2014. (EDIT: sold 10b of Alibaba stake [0]). For
Yahoo's sake, I hope Marissa's plan isn't to sell off Yahoo 10b at a time to
boost net profits.

 _it 'd be a travesty if 15k people lost their jobs for a little short term
action._

No where have I suggested layoffs. I said Marissa may find herself out of a
job if things don't improve. I imagine she has another year or two max (unless
things change). That's very different than saying 15k people should be let go.

0\. [http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/yahoo-faces-moment-
of...](http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/yahoo-faces-moment-of-decision-
again/)

~~~
shawndumas
I hear you, and agree regarding the 10b. My point was simply that supporting
15k jobs and still being in the black has value. I know that you know that.

Would you agree that maximizing shareholder value is not the ultimate ethic?

Also, I never said that you were calling for lay-offs

~~~
rgbrenner
_Would you agree that maximizing shareholder value is not the ultimate ethic?_

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. I simply don't think that (most) investors agree
with that, and will seek a change in leadership if the income statement
doesn't improve.

~~~
shawndumas
Agreed

------
gcb0
Me thinks the board is moving against marisa (yahoo board trying to change
ceo, oh my)

the only change this time, instead of shoping around and turning the company
upside down they shopped and put the CEO-to-be as SVP first.

------
G00d1
Should have skipped tumbler, saved $1billion and spent it on people and given
them some freedom to fix yahoo products.

------
AndrewHart
Why do we still care?

------
mikeryan
The phrase "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" comes to mind.

~~~
oh_sigh
Superficially, any time anyone reshuffles or rearranges anything, that could
come to mind. Please provide a more fleshed out post unless you're interested
in quipping and moving on.

------
ChuckMcM
Second envelope.

------
aswanson
She needs to shuffle her idiotic mobile team by firing all of them, at least
the ones who made the mobile email app. Who the hell designs, in this day and
age, an email app that does not let you log out; your only choice is to delete
the app if you don't want someone who picks up your phone to look at your
yahoo mail. I used to be skeptical of snapchat, but I'm coming around to new
startups that understand how humans use things and don't want everything open
to everyone.

~~~
selimthegrim
Uh, Gmail on Android doesn't let you sign out without delinking the account
from your device...

~~~
aswanson
Uh, they should fix that. That's fucking stupid. And doesn't give yahoo an
out. It's dumb to treat users like that.

~~~
anonbanker
it's not a bug, it's a feature!

