
Facebook Boycott Grows: Ford Joins Coca-Cola, Starbucks and Other Brands - FillardMillmore
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/29/884881853/facebook-boycott-grows-ford-joins-coca-cola-starbucks-and-other-brands
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swebs
Do we really need a new post every time another company throws their hat into
this? It feels like the 5th time this week seeing another "[brand] joins
Facebook boycott" post and all the comments are always the same.

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mclightning
Why not?

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swebs
Because after the first or second time, there's really no more discussion to
be had. This is the reason why mods also remove reposts. Is there anything
special about specifically Coca-Cola pulling out that makes the story
different than the last ones?

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odyssey7
Coca-Cola is widely admired for its marketing prowess. If they make a
marketing decision, like pulling ads from Facebook, that’s something that a
lot of other marketers will be noticing.

~~~
koheripbal
Maybe, though I suspect most of these boycotts are temporary and will likely
revert quietly - or that they had almost zero ad spend on Facebook anyway.

The pricing of Facebook Ads isn't changing, so it's unclear if there's any
impact.

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pathseeker
Cynic in me says this is an awfully convenient way to justify a cut-back in
advertising spend during the economic crisis while gaining free PR for being
so "socially conscious". Most of these companies even mentioned right in the
announcement that it's only for a month.

~~~
LatteLazy
It's a great way to get one last ping of free, positive press for nothing.

Its nothing more than that imho, no one cared when it was hate speech or
election interference or privacy or under moderation or kids. But suddenly,
the same day accounting decided to cut the budget they had a moral epiphany?
Pfft.

~~~
TLightful
Maybe, but all of the companies involved can go f!ck themselves if they return
to FB with no concessions.

So, a one time ping for an eternal f!ck you?

Doesn't seem to make strategic sense.

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vageli
I agree on principle, but I don't think FB will refuse these advertisers when
they return (and the advertisers know it).

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LatteLazy
You expect Facebook to take a moral stance? Right when the company will be
most desperate for those same dollars?

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AnonC
Honestly, your first question stands by itself for all times as far as
Facebook is concerned. Facebook is incapable of and disinterested in taking
moral stances for any reason.

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joshstrange
None or practically none of these companies are actually doing anything real.
Pulling ads for a month or two only to go back is an empty gesture.

It gets even worse if you choose to look at this through the lens of: This
lets them test the how effective FB ads are during a period of time they are
already trying to save a buck AND they get to look "woke" while they do it.

Is this a pessimistic/cynical view? Absolutely but it's from a place of
watching this play out over and over with no real change. Fool me a million
times and all that...

~~~
ogre_codes
> None or practically none of these companies are actually doing anything
> real. Pulling ads for a month or two only to go back is an empty gesture.

Disagree a bit here. While it's not a huge gesture on the part of those
participating in the boycott, it may have enough impact on FaceBook that they
will change some of their policies. Facebook has already backpedalled a bit
and tried to push through some policy changes as damage control, we'll see if
there is any long term change.

Ultimately, money (and robbing them of eyes) is the only way to affect change
at Facebook. This is costing Facebook a significant amount of money. Not huge
amounts, but enough where the executives notice.

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blakesterz
Every time I've read the details on these recent stories it says something
like "Ford is one of the latest companies to announce a 30-day pause of all
social-media advertising on Monday" but the headline is Facebook. Doesn't "all
social-media advertising" mean ALL social networks, like Twitter too?

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microcolonel
> _Doesn 't "all social-media advertising" mean ALL social networks, like
> Twitter too?_

Yes. Activist "journalists" are trying to bully Facebook into censoring their
political opponents, and the best way they know to do that is to set the
narrative that Facebook in particular is “too toxic” for any brand. The brands
themselves are choosing either to play into that for pricing leverage, or to
tell the truth: that _everything_ is too polarized for most advertising.

Twitter is trying cave right now to deflect the heat to Facebook, it seems,
and I'm sure it looks to them like it's working, but it's only a matter of
time before the window shifts and they're next.

~~~
Karunamon
Only if Facebook doesn't have the fortitude required to call their bluff. At
the end of the day, money talks, and if it turns out that their advertising
actually drives clicks, they'll advertise there regardless of what they think
of the content Facebook "allows".

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listenallyall
Not my area of expertise but it would seem that "big tent" advertisers with
broad appeal and universal recognition -- Coca-Cola, P&G, Chevrolet,
McDonald's, etc -- are much more suited to mass media advertising and are a
poor fit for the specificity, niches and micro-segmenting that Facebook
allows. Cost per impression is likely far lower with TV ads, despite their
high price tag, plus they can be 100% sure the surrounding content is family-
friendly and not your crazy uncle's latest political rant. I think this is
really about money and placement.

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cgb223
Alternate title:

Companies that don’t benefit much from social media advertising find
convenient excuse to stop spending money on it

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JumpCrisscross
Most Facebook ad spend is a zero sum game. Starbucks doesn't win tons of new
business with their Facebook ads. But they can use it to hold ground against
competitors.

This equilibrium was remarkably resilient. But Covid is a hard punch. And it
seems to have knocked that equilibrium out of alignment. Everyone has
simultaneously lost the benefits of advertising. As a result, everyone can
unilaterally disarm.

The impetus is important. But there are structural reasons for the current
environment. Similarly, once the current environment subsides, if nothing is
changed, the old regime is likely to reassert itself.

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TheAdamAndChe
Social media is the medium through which modern civil discourse is occurring.
It is where political opinions are formed. To have all the major corporations
strong-arm these companies to limit speech is dangerous. Companies should not
determine the overton window.

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frabbit
I agree, but if we have turned over ownership and control of media to private
corporations we are foolish to expect anything except more censored, biased
media in the longterm.

As Cory Doctorow has pointed out the problem is that there are oligopolies in
the first place, not how they are implementing "correct thought rules".

Facebook, Twitter, Google should be broken up, they ought not to exist in
their current media-distorting massiveness if we are serious about this
problem.

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ycombonator
[https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/how-far-
gone-...](https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/how-far-gone-is-big-
business-part-i.php)

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MattGaiser
Is Ford even making something to sell right now? I don’t know why these
companies would be advertising when massive numbers of people can’t buy your
product right now.

Advertising now seems like a waste of money.

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softwaredoug
Social Media companies are learning that moderation or algorithmic news feeds
inevitably are perceived as a kind of non-neutral editorial control. I don't
think you can have moderation at large scale without it being perceived as
such.

Why didn't this happen with [10 year old bulletin board] of yore? Maybe the
stakes were lower? Maybe the population was more homogeneous? Maybe the
arguments were happening outside of an online space? Was the political space
different? Or all of the above?

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dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23656620](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23656620)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646852](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23646852)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23671000](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23671000)

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tradewarsonlyn
For FMCG and mega brands, The intent with omnichannel marketing is to maintain
top of the mind recall. Accordingly, it is crucial to maintain advertising
presence everywhere customers expend their attention.

Shameless Source: Wrote the book on this - [https://www.amazon.com/Everything-
learned-200-about-Marketin...](https://www.amazon.com/Everything-
learned-200-about-Marketing-ebook/dp/B07NL688ZG)

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edge17
Isn't ad space by auction anyway? So if the highest bidders leave it just
means the highest bid is a bit lower

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hayd
Cheaper ads for the rest of us!

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MockObject
I really haven't seen any of the hate speech that's so revolting to these
companies. I've seen them block links to websites that occasionally flirt with
the far right, and I've seen their censorship ban memes that are innocent, so
I don't know what they're so agitated over.

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threeseed
Facebook will be concerned but not particularly worried.

These advertisers will be back and the bulk of their revenue comes from SMBs
who will never move their advertising dollars. People who have never had to
run ads fail to understand just how superior Facebook's platform is for
certain businesses/audiences.

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Smoosh
There's an old saying that has long struck me as being both horrid and true -
"Kick a dog and it will always crawl back in the end". While I don't condone
animal abuse, I see this all the time in human relationships. Once someone has
power over you, you will gladly suffer abuse from them. And return for more.
Repeatedly.

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xwdv
The climax of this boycott will come when companies that have never even
advertised on Facebook declare they will not be advertising on Facebook. No
one will bother to fact check, and they get to ride on the free PR.

So yea, fuck the companies doing these PR stunts and their opportunistic
advertising.

~~~
Smoosh
{being ultra cynical here} The ultimate will be when companies specifically
start advertising on Facebook, just so they can then pull that advertising to
do the virtue signalling.

~~~
xwdv
Or perhaps say they will stop advertising, and then actually never stop.

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narrator
All the little brands selling stuff on my Facebook feed are probably stoked
they are printing money now because of reduced ad rates. I remember the early
days of Google Adwords where you could just print money putting up affiliate
links to stuff because ads were so cheap.

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Priem19
If any representative of these big brands reads this, and you really want to
make a statement, you can buy
[https://www.quitfacebook.org](https://www.quitfacebook.org) for one million
euros.

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knolax
Has anyone ever actually seen a Coca-Cola ad on Facebook? I can't remember
ever getting any advertisements that weren't for obscure scientific equipment
or scammy mobile apps.

~~~
x87678r
Yeah I was going to say that. I'm not sure if that is due to our weird
interests. :)

~~~
dhosek
I was curious about this so I scrolled Facebook until I got ten ads. They
were:

Village of Oak Park - Census

Chicago Tribune

Common Ground Oak Park (podcast by village board member)

Energizer

Ultimate Ears Pro

Home Run Inn Pizza

HBO

Merrick Pet Care

HBO Max

South Loop Symphony Orchestra

HBO is wasting their money on me since I get it for free with my internet
service. I'm guessing I got targeted by the two Oak Park ads because I spend
most of my FB time in the local dads' group. The Merrick Pet Care one is a bit
of near miss targeting—I'm "friends" with the veterinary hospital my brother
owns but I don't have any pets right now and given my wife's attitude towards
animal hair, I don't expect to in the future.

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awinder
There’s a simple 2 step plan to restoring sanity at Facebook and luckily it’s
like one of those coding tasks where you’re just deleting lines and lines of
code:

1\. Fire the politically-motivated class of executives that sent the company
on this ridiculous revenue trot in the first place 2\. Kick all the
politicians off the platform

There’s a very small addressable market of cash FB could ever capture from
politics (compared to the addressable total market of the productive economy),
and its tainted money. Just watch it go away, maybe you can watch some
competitors throw themselves on the rocks with it.

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sunseb
FB being "cancelled" by the "wake mob" just make me think FB may be not that
bad after all.

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calibas
As if advertisers don't have enough influence over media already...

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onyva
“In report what a politician says, we think it's important that people should
generally be able to see it for themselves on our platforms, too."

News outlets don’t give up the stage and leave viewers without context or
basic fact checking. Well, most of them. Facebook wants to be the Fox News of
social media, not a platform for social engagement, which can’t happen when
your business model is misinformation and manufactured right wing rage.

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rasz
Neither Ford nor Coca-Cola pulled out of Nazi Germany until ~1941. IS Facebook
really that bad?

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frabbit
When will there be a boycott of the New York Times for publishing the lies of
Judith Miller that led to the direct deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi
children?

Is there going to be a boycott of Coca-Cola for their support of right-wing
regimes in Colombia that murder, torture and rape the Indigenous?

What about a boycott of Ford for producing automobiles that are destroying our
planet?

Don't worry, none of the above will happen because they do not increase the
censorship capabilities of the state on the free internet.

Keep voting and emoting. We have only 10 years to irreversible climate change.
Keep it up.

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throwawaysea
I'm really disappointed to see all these brands jump on this train. They're
basically arguing for political censorship. I haven't seen ads from these
companies myself, but seeing press about them entering the
cultural/political/ideological wars makes me less likely to shop from them.

