
Ask HN: Why aren't you using spaced repetition? - randomchars
From the surface, Space Repetition seems like the best way to memorize (and don&#x27;t forget) large amounts of factual information. But from what I see, it&#x27;s not that popular.<p>If you tried it, but stopped why? 
If you heard about it, but never tried it, why?<p>For those who haven&#x27;t heard about it:<p>- https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ncase.me&#x2F;remember&#x2F;<p>- https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gwern.net&#x2F;Spaced-repetition<p>- https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Spaced_repetition
======
tsumnia
Primarily - motivation and discipline. Obviously motivation is what gets
people to start something new. However, once people have made that first step,
they'll realize that learning is not instantaneous and requires effort. This
is where individuals need the discipline to continue learning. Personally, I
think this is one of the reasons why we have such great success learning as
children - we're forced to. Not necessarily personal discipline, but anyone
would have an easier time learning if they were forced into 5-8 hours a day
classes.

Discipline and lack of penalty is also why I think free learning materials
suffer their high drop-off rates. The low barrier of entrance means anyone can
join and the lack of penalizing you for not practicing means you can just
stop.

Secondary - western education argues against memorization for "higher level"
learning. Knowing all the syntax structures of a programming language doesn't
mean you know how to code, so there is a de-emphasis on learning them.
However, I agree that you do need some degree of memorization to serve as your
foundation for higher level knowledge. As someone else said, imagine trying to
write an essay without knowing any words. My PhD research is actually focusing
on this to identify students that need that foundational knowledge.

Finally - our "fear of incompetence". I believe we don't want to be viewed as
unable to do something and if we are presented with something that challenges
our competence, we avoid it in lieu for things we do excel in. Children are
given a sort of "free pass" because we know they don't know things.

~~~
mariushn
You can get started in 1 minute, when you spot a paragraph that you like on
the web:

1\. create an account on
[https://booxia.wensia.com/](https://booxia.wensia.com/)

2\. install the browser extension

3\. highlight the paragraph and choose Save to Booxia.

You'll start getting spaced repetition emails with that.

Disclosure: I built the service.

~~~
qzx_pierri
Hey this is really cool. Thanks for sharing.

~~~
mariushn
Appreciate your comment :) I don't know how to market this, besides posting on
HN.

~~~
qzx_pierri
I'll tell all my friends at school about it. I'm taking CCNP courses, and our
textbook is online... you thinking what I'm thinking? Love the extension, bro.

~~~
mariushn
Hah :) Thank you!

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adchari
Honestly, I haven't found a need for it yet.

I am a student studying CS, and none of my coursework really requires heavy
memorization for exams or assignments. For the most part, even if I need to
remember some algorithm, it is simple enough that it can be derived or
remembered for lecture.

However, my SO is pre-med, and consistently uses Anki to great success. Her
exams are very centered on information which needs to be memorized, including
standardized exams like the MCAT. I think this is where spaced repetition
programs shine.

Generally, people don't need to memorize large amounts of information, they
need a few facts and relations to each other. This can easily be achieved with
hand-written or typed notes which an individual can review when needed.

~~~
edejong
I used (many years ago, with Mnemosyne) spaces repetition on CS and AI
history. It is really useful to have this extra context available during my
normal activities. It allows me to see modern development in a historic
context.

------
jborichevskiy
I've been using spaced repeition to review highlights from books. I do it with
Readwise (not affiliated, just a very happy customer). A large part of the
reason I never stuck to Anki was the friction of creating, syncing, formatting
the cards. This tool plugs into your services automatically so takes care of
that.

[https://readwise.io/](https://readwise.io/)

Related:

Quantumn Country: A free introduction to quantum computing and quantum
mechanics. Uses spaced repetition baked in directly into the article to aid
comprehension and retention.

[https://quantum.country/](https://quantum.country/)

~~~
throwaway123x2
Readwise looks great, but their pricing is pretty buried...

~~~
jborichevskiy
They have two tiers IIRC, $4 and $9/mo.

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jlelonm
I use it (Anki), but this is the 3rd time I got started using it (I dropped
off twice).

For me, personally, these are the reasons:

\- It was kind of annoying to do Anki every day at first. Cards always seemed
either blindingly obvious (and seemingly a waste of time), or I just didn't
know the content (in which case, it was frustrating knowing I'd have to
memorize it right there since I knew it'd pop up again in a few cards). Not
knowing the content tended to be caused by having too much info on the Anki
card.

\- I didn't see the benefit clearly until after a few weeks of doing it, when
stuff EVENTUALLY sunk in.

\- About 70% of the time, I discovered that the card I created was inadequate
in some way.

    
    
        * Some I just deleted because they were discovered to be redundant (i.e. covered by another card)
    
        * Some I discovered to have to much info (so I had to break it into more cards)
    
        * Some were just awkwardly phrased
    
        * Some were good cards but displayed weirdly in the Anki mobile app.
    

I'd say the #1 thing that kept me from fully adopting it:

Not making cards as atomized as possible made things a pain.

I was lazy and made cards contain more info with the justification that I
needed to see everything at once in context. This resulted in bloated cards
and frustration.

Trust me: Every card should contain _one_ idea. It will result in you making
tons of cards, but it will make your daily Anki a lot less frustrating (and
you'll be more likely to do it).

~~~
JCharante
I'm using it for language learning where Anki is commonly mentioned. I didn't
see the value in Anki until I started adding a couple hundred of my own cards.
There's this annoying grind at the beginning but then it gets much better. I
don't know a single product that is just so essential for an activity other
than Anki.

------
getpolarized
I'm the author of Polar:

[https://getpolarized.io/](https://getpolarized.io/)

Spaced repetition is a game-changer but right now it's not really adopted
outside of say Duolingo and Quizlet.

I think the reason why is that integrating spaced-repetition into your
workflow is painful.

If you use Evernote or Onenote and Kindle or maybe something like Anki then
you're constantly switching back and forth.

Polar changes this by making a fully integrated reading, annotation, note and
spaced repetition platform.

You can read a PDF, highlight an important piece of text, convert it to a
flashcard, then sync it to Anki directly - all without ever leaving Polar.

Further, we also have our own spaced repetition algorithm if you just want to
use Polar directly. If you're not an Anki user this might be easier since Anki
can be difficult for some people to configure.

We're REALLY close to 2.0 and have some important features including EPUB,
annotations for tags and a web-based annotation system so that you can
highlight and create flashcards directly in the browser.

We also support a really cool feature called incremental reading which allows
you to easily suspend/resume your reading to resume where you left off. All
your highlights can also be reviewed by spaced repetition algorithms so you
can re-read core parts of your document repository.

I'm on Discord if you guys have any questions:

[https://discordapp.com/invite/GT8MhA6](https://discordapp.com/invite/GT8MhA6)

------
dhandel
I created [https://idorecall.com/](https://idorecall.com/) and it is different
than apps like Anki. You upload your learning materials into iDoRecall. File
types such as .docx, .pptx, .pdf, images files or add media share links from
YouTube, Vimeo, Soundcloud, etc. You consume your content in iDR. When you
come across a concept or fact that you want to remember, create a linked
spaced-repetition flashcard. When you practice your flashcards, if you
struggle with an answer, click a link to open up the source file or video at
the exact location where you created the card. Refresh your memory and then
get back to your practice session. Also, you can create study groups with
classmates and collaborate, sharing files and flashcards. I have written about
my background and story [https://bit.ly/2Tp3vTr](https://bit.ly/2Tp3vTr)

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alentodorov
Michael Nielsen's essay, Augmenting Long-term Memory, points to an article
from the late 80s which goes through a list of reasons why "Spacing Effect"
hasn't implemented been implemented in US's teaching system.

[http://augmentingcognition.com/assets/Dempster1988.pdf](http://augmentingcognition.com/assets/Dempster1988.pdf)

------
marssaxman
I do not need to memorize large amounts of factual information; computers are
much better at it than I will ever be.

------
asdkhadsj
I am - or at least plan to. I am writing a knowledge base, focused around a
sort of mind-map of information and sources - and for each node I am adding a
series of Q&As that can be used for spaced rep.

My goal is a few fold:

1\. I research plenty of things in life and I need to document my findings.
Not some grand importance to my "findings", merely that I've found I tend to
summarize to such an extreme degree that I lose how I came to that
summarization.

2\. I want to remember my summarizations mentioned above.

3\. I want to run a self-experiment on my .. I guess, random access memory. I
tend to have terrible memory for the little random details of live these days.
What was that movie name? What was that actors name? What street does X person
live on? What is my wife's phone number? etc.

I never seem to run into this problem in things I "care" about, namely tech,
programming and etc. But still, it bothers me how frequently I draw a blank
from my memory. While I don't often see many repeats in this "random access
memory" problem (aka movie names/etc), I am curious if I can improve this
memory pattern by memorizing the things I so easily forget. I have no data
backing it up, I'm just curious.

Why am I writing my own tool instead of Anki/etc? There's a few side features
that I want to design a UX around, and see how it goes. It's all an experiment
in the UX of information storage, retrieval and memorization/retention.

~~~
jlelonm
You might benefit from a tool called Roam Research:

[https://www.nateliason.com/blog/roam](https://www.nateliason.com/blog/roam)

~~~
jborichevskiy
+1 this tool is slowly changing the way I think about digital information.
Early stage but they're on a great course!

------
nikivi
Because to me holding references to things is more valuable than holding
knowledge in. I don't need to memorize anything, just need to have awareness
of different approaches and things to solve problems. Which comes with time by
using anything.

~~~
sturza
There is no "instead". Cognitive science shows you need memorization for
creativity & critical thinking. (Imagine writing an essay if you know no
words!) [https://ncase.me/remember/](https://ncase.me/remember/)

~~~
gshdg
Did you learn words in your native language by deliberately memorizing them?

~~~
JCharante
Yes, in middle school we had weekly tests where we got graded on our
recollection of that week's vocabulary.

~~~
gshdg
Wow, that sounds excruciating.

~~~
randomchars
This is quite frequent in countries of the ex-soviet block. Most of the
language classes we had were about rote memorization and recall of words
without context.

~~~
mortivore
It's a common thing in the United States too.

~~~
JCharante
Right, I went to middle school in Maine (which is in the United States for
those that are not that acquainted with it.) in an Urban region.

------
grwthckrmstr
I looked hard for an app that would help me record a piece of information that
I want to revisit again and again with decreasing frequency until I've
internalised it.

I tried Anki, but it was too cumbersome.

The way I do it at present is to write a note/attach a screenshot to a
reminder on Google Keep which repeats daily, or maybe every 2 or 3 days.

I usually keep something on for 4-8 weeks until the thought or idea has been
completely internalised.

~~~
jgraeupner
Have you tried Polar? [https://getpolarized.io](https://getpolarized.io)

------
probably_wrong
Because last time I used it (Anki), the app didn't allow you to "pause" your
learning. It happened to me a couple times that I missed a week for some
reason (usually a deadline), and when I came back to my deck I had hundreds of
well-known cards to catch up to.

This created a vicious cycle: my commute was no longer enough to review so
many card, I kept falling behind, and the pile just kept getting bigger. I
started dreading opening the app more and more, until I officially gave up and
deleted everything.

~~~
zozbot234
"Cards to catch up to" is just "cards Anki predicts you're in danger of
forgetting". As long as you can recall a reasonable % of the cards you're
reviewing, you aren't "falling behind" at all! Indeed, Anki will give you
"extra credit" for recalling a card that you didn't review on schedule, so the
"catch up" process is a lot more effective than it appears st first glance.

------
avindroth
It's nice, but facts are not the bottleneck to my development

~~~
randomchars
What is the bottleneck your you?

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swyx
honestly i get the theory behind spaced repetition, but the format of Anki
cards doesnt work for me. it is just hard to get onboard with making Anki
cards for myself. it feels like too atomic of a piece of knowledge and in
making the card i've already internalized it or likely know all I need to know
to look it up in future. I know this isn't 100% true, but thats the mental
hurdle I have when thinking about why I dont make Anki cards.

~~~
randomchars
I understand your feeling, that's my biggest gripe too. Making cards is chore,
with lots of copy-pasting and editing, sometimes even image editing. As time
goes it also gets more and more disconnected from the context; I sometimes as
myself, why did I even want to learn this?

Have you tried premade decks? What was your experience with those?

~~~
wainstead
I find the act of creating the card is part of the process of memorizing and
internalizing the fact. I agree with others here that using Anki can be a real
chore sometimes; one has to devote a chunk of time just learning how to use
Anki.

With more and more use, using Anki becomes second nature like with any
application.

I got the most out of Anki after watching videos; this one in particular
opened doors for me:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwcr25334J8&t=99s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwcr25334J8&t=99s)

------
muzani
It doesn't work in practice. It might work if you were trying to memorize the
capital city of something, but it forces you to really narrow down the scope.
That's why Duolingo does so poorly compared to just going into a different
language forum and immersing yourself.

Also a big part of memory is building multiple connections. Spaced repetition
tends to be in an island. It could be less effective than other techniques,
like encoding.

~~~
gavribirnbaum
I self-learned 5 languages to fluency. Getting the vocab right is absolutely
necessary. They are the tools you need to get work done.

But yeah, you have to use the tools as well.

~~~
muzani
Self-learned using spaced repetition/Duolingo or another technique?

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andymoe
[https://www.executeprogram.com](https://www.executeprogram.com) uses it and
it’s really great. Eventually it’s 19 bucks a month but probably worth it if
it helps get you past those annoying coder pad screens everyone seems to love
these days.

~~~
randomchars
This looks amazing, thank you for mentioning it. Do you have experience with
it? Are there more advanced topics, or is it only aimed at beginners?

~~~
andymoe
Yeah, I did the “JavaScript arrays” one. Don’t let the topic name fool you...
They don’t show you everything up front. All those topics get pretty advanced.

------
hfdh434535
I don't need to memorize anything. Information I use on a daily basis is
easily recalled. Information I use infrequently can be looked up on my phone.

Spaced repetition might help if I was studying for a test or preparing for a
game show.

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kalium-xyz
I am, I intentionally repeat things I learned on the day itself before bed and
at the end of the week. You just have to think about something for it to be a
recollection.

~~~
wainstead
This is a technique called "active recall" and is a good practice!

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Scarblac
Memorizing large amounts of factual information just isn't something I have
much use for.

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screye
I haven't found memorizing to be very useful as a skill.

I find it so much more useful to build internal graph representations for
concepts and tying memories to context instead.

Memory in isolation is like having a bunch of nodes without an edge list.

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sturza
Using it with Anki and Notion for refining new concepts before they go in Anki

~~~
randomchars
How does your process look like? You take your notes in notion, and move (some
parts of?) them to Anki?

~~~
sturza
I take a lot of notes in notion. After some time i refine the notes and
extract question-style concepts that i can add in Anki.

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jdtang13
It's near mandatory for self-teaching yourself a new language.

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hedgew
I don't have enough need to memorize anything.

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andresgaitan
Ttest

