
I’ve given up using soap & shampoo forever - dchest
http://blog.seanbonner.com/2010/02/01/ive-given-up-using-soap/
======
harry
I tried this when it made the HN rounds about a year ago. My results were over
about three months and my primary reason was to assist treating moderate
eczema. I stopped using all soap and shampoo and just stuck with hot-as-hell
water. My skin did get better, but after about two months my hair began to
naturally dread. After I looked back on my notes of this endeavor I decided to
use some scent-free shampoo to prevent dreads. I use soap to clean up when I
finish painting/working on a car or other dirty project. I also use it before
I prepare food for my family and friends. My hair did never really 'feel'
right, much more like a dogs fur than clean hair. It didn't smell bad it just
felt different and didn't behave.

The interesting thing that came out of my tracking this impromptu 'shower log'
of no soap use - I was able to correlate my severe eczema outbreaks with
inhaling allergens. In my case, breathing in pine dust & glue particulate
causes outbreaks. I now wear my painting respirator 75% of the time in the
shop and have very few incidents.

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jerryr
I stopped showering with soap and shampoo in high school after a bout of dry
skin. After a transition period of length similar to the author's, I saw the
same improvements. Today, I use soap (though not antibacterial) when cooking
and whenever I'm covered in something like grease or rosin (hey, it happens)
that could use the extra help soap affords. I only use the tiniest bit of
shampoo to assist in getting the itchy little hair bits out after a haircut.

While I have personally gained from the benefits of this experiment, I'm not a
fan of the rationalizations some use to justify minimalism/naturalism/whatever
you'll call it -- the arguments that run along the lines of "we didn't need it
years ago, why do we need it today?" As an engineer, I find this wholesale
skepticism of technology especially repugnant. Thus, I really appreciate that
Sean frames this in terms of experimentation and checking hypotheses--be they
self or socially formed. That is cool.

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hugh3
Cool story, bro.

It kinda makes sense; soap is for dissolving stuff that you can't rinse off
your skin. The bits of your body which are covered by clothes generally don't
acquire much such gunk, they just get sweaty. He still washes his hands using
soap, so I'm not too concerned about his health. I'd like to see him maintain
his "no soap" rule after a day spent working under a car, though.

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dave1619
I heard about a similar story in college and decided to try it out over 15
years ago. My roommate's uncle was a doctor and a big fan of not using soap
and shampoo. The first 2 weeks were tough - very oily. But I stuck it out and
then my body adjusted. I could really tell that my body was producing less oil
and I felt cleaner throughout the day. So I kept on going, and for the next 10
years I didn't use soap and shampoo in the shower. When people found out, most
were grossed out. But it felt right. About 5 years ago, I started to use
shampoo cause it would let me wash my hair faster (just using water takes
longer). But I use a gentle and natural shampoo (current from Melvita). I
still don't use soap cause I feel like it strips too much natural/good body
oil from my body and isn't good for me. Anyway, it's refreshing to see a post
like this. And in all places, at HN.

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SageRaven
I, too, tend to believe that the soaps, shampoos, and other smelly things we
all buy and take for granted in modern life may not be the healthiest things
for us. However, in my household, we've addressed the problem (as we see it,
anyway) by: 1) Making our own soap and shampoo; and 2) Only bathing on an as-
needed basis (which equates to about twice a week for me). I also don't wear
deodorant/antiperspirant.

Seems to be working out so far. I have long hair (for a guy, anyway), and I
have a tough time not using shampoo. I suppose, in theory, if I stopped using
long enough for my scalp to stop over-producing oils to replace what's
routinely stripped out due to washing shampoo, then it wouldn't be a big
problem (that, or I'd simply get accustomed to the feeling of my hair with
natural oils). Frankly, though, I'd probably be more inclined to simply start
shaving my head to avoid shampoo.

Different strokes for different folks, and all that. Everyone has their
boundaries when it comes to personal hygiene, and we should all respect those
boundaries. However, upon close examination, the daily bathing/hygiene rituals
modern (US, Western, ???) life does seem a bit excessive. If we didn't coat
ourselves with so much "stuff" (deodorant, conditioner, hair spray/gel,
perfume/cologne, etc.), it seems intuitive that we wouldn't need to clean
ourselves as harshly or as often as we currently do.

Interesting topic, nonetheless.

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araneae
In my experience, this does not work.

I gave up on shampoo for about a month and a half, but I still used
conditioner. I never used soap on my body when showering to begin with, except
for _ahem_ the bottom area.

It actually worked for a little while; the conditioner dissolved the grease
out of my hair (like dissolves like). But then for about a week my hair was
determined to stay greasy and no amount of conditioner would get it out. So I
gave up and started using shampoo again.

There's a reason that in the old days everyone wore hats or bonnets regularly.

~~~
grourk
Conditioner is meant to restore the moisture to your hair that shampoo takes.
It makes sense that by only using conditioner your hair felt greasy.

~~~
araneae
Conditioners are designed to completely wash out of your hair with just water.
It wasn't that the conditioner wasn't getting washed out, it was that at some
point it was insufficient to deal with the grease issue.

At least it makes a whole lot more sense than trying to wash your hair with
just water, which is completely incapable of getting rid of grease.

~~~
oscardelben
I think the point of the experiment is to get rid of _all_ chemicals. Like for
shampoo, you don't know what the effects of the conditioner are, and what
would happen to your hair.

~~~
araneae
Well obviously I wasn't following _his_ experiment. It was from a book on how
to deal with my particular kind of hair (which is rather difficult).

~~~
colanderman
In that case it's pretty disingenuous of you to claim that "In my experience,
this does not work," seeing as you did not, in fact, experience this.

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latch
Water, especially hot water, is an unbelievably effective solvent (something
often overlooked despite the fact that its known as the Universal Solvent).

Still, I'd worry about bacteria growth (which is, in my mind, the value added
of soap) - though the author claims he smells better now.

~~~
swaits
I NEVER use soap to wash my hands. I almost never get sick.

I think it's down to technique.

a) use the hottest water you can stand. With practice you can get it pretty
hot.

b) scrub your hands together completely, vigorously, and for a good 20 to 30
seconds.

~~~
IgorPartola
At my university, the microbiology class did a test every year to see how well
people wash their hands. They were instructed to was their hands in scolding
water for four minutes with antibacterial soap. Turns out, even after that
they still had more than half the bacteria left on their hands. This of course
says nothing about whether you'll get sick.

EDIT: Also, don't try to pull any of this at a hospital. In those situations
you can't afford to take chances (as in when others' health is at risk).

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tremendo
I have been doing this for a few months. Some notes:

I always had oily skin, and it seems to me now my skin was likely overreacting
to the use of soap as it now is a lot more stable and to me it just feels
finally "right", no longer needing to so frequently wash my face. I also
believe tone and texture are better.

Soap. I do use it when for whatever reason I become "actually dirty", like
handling greasy stuff, or after swimming in a pool (chlorine or salt water),
after outdoor play, etc. And yes, for the nether regions, er, daily.

Shampoo., It's definitely much easier with shorter hair, and during the warm
months. As weather gets colder it's hard not to think I could benefit from a
little shampoo/conditioner, most noticeably right out of the shower my hair
becomes harder to manage and I have to make more "adjustments" as time passes.
But during summer, no issues at all. Or perhaps is related to humidity?
Anyway, I am sure I will be relenting and using some shampoo/conditioner the
next few months.

For odors, I have a quite reliable barometer, my little daughter and wife
always notice when it's time to get cleaner, and it is my observation that
their admonishments have been conspicuously absent in the few months I've been
doing this, still unbeknownst to them.

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rokhayakebe
I can't speak for soap but I know I have never used shaving gel/cream, or
whatever you call it, in my 29 years. And it's all fine. So maybe these guys
are just trying to get us to spend money.

~~~
shard
I wish that worked for me. Every time I skipped the shaving cream, I'd get
nicks all over the place, even with a fresh blade. Maybe my skin is thinner
than yours. Do you just use water? Or do you use soap in place of shaving gel?

~~~
eldenbishop
I also stopped using shaving cream. My method is as follows. Turn shower up
just slightly hotter than will kill you. Sit on floor of tub and just let
water soak your head and face. The extra distance to the floor of the shower
is why the water should be hotter than is normally tolerable. Now just sit
there and enjoy your sauna/steam. After a good time soaking I am now very
relaxed and the hair on my face should be super soft. I then grab the razer,
just a normal disposable, and do a blind shave while sitting under the hot
water. When I'm done, turn the water temp down a bit and clean up the missed
bits in a mirror. The whole process is very relaxing and easy and takes only a
few minutes.

~~~
astrange
Soaking your face in scalding water is relaxing and easy?

I'm surprised this has so many comments (it seems to be #3 by comments on the
first two pages), but I guess I'm not surprised that programmers don't wash
their hair.

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davidjhall
I stopped using shaving cream years ago thanks to this article:
<http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker65.html> Turns out using shaving
cream makes you dependent on it.

~~~
tibbon
I don't use it myself. I use olive oil if needed. Some people recommend using
a thinner oil, but I like this and it works for me.

I also don't use conditioner. Never seen the point. My hair is just fine. I've
gone without shampoo too, and just whatever soap I use.

~~~
philwelch
You don't need conditioner (or, for that matter, probably even shampoo) if
your hair's short. I only started using conditioner when I grew mine out.

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Reclix
As a person with hereditary skin issues (both my dad and grandad have suffered
for years, and now it's setting in for me), I'm definitely going to try it -
my father and I already noticed a big shift when changing from scented to
unscented shampoos and soaps - I'm willing to give the no-soap a go to calm
down the rest of my skin - cheers. I'll comment again if I notice a sudden
down-tick in the number of people willing to spend time with me ;)

~~~
Mz
I have given up soap, shampoo, deodorant...etc...due to serious health issues.
For me, it was a gradual progression. I add salt to my bath water. If you have
serious skin issues, I would recommend a salt water bath. Kosher or
"canning/pickling" salt is better than table salt. A good quality, high brine
sea salt is better still.

Good luck with this.

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portman
I haven't used shampoo since I was maybe 10. No problems to report.

~~~
oneplusone
Interesting. I used to shampoo my hair every day, but found out that the more
you shampoo it the more oil your hair produces and thus the faster it gets
"dirty". So I switched to only doing it twice a week and I have not noticed
any negative effect. I think I am going to try dropping it altogether.

Do you use any hair products at all like gel or wax?

~~~
rickr
Do you have a source for that? I have super curly hair and in a futile attempt
to manage it I researched hair care for a morning a few weeks ago.

If you didn't know curly hair tends to become dry towards the ends. This is
due to the natural oils not being able to reach the ends because of the curls.
I found a few sites advocating shampooing about once every two weeks to let
the oils do their thing (along with moisturizing conditioner every day).

That being said my hair is still a mess so I'd love to see if I am "doing it
wrong".

~~~
missizii
I also have super curly hair. I only use conditioner, no shampoo unless my
scalp needs extra cleaning, which is very rarely. And I use hair products like
gel and spray. Conditioner combed through my hair and then rinsed out removes
all hair products. Check out the DevaCurl starter kit - it has "NoPoo"
shampoo, which is shampoo without harsh sulfates, conditioner, gel, and spray.
Their products are great for curly hair.

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markbao
Are there any major studies regarding the effect of the increasing amount of
chemicals we're taking into our bodies in the modern day?

~~~
hackerblues
Everyday I breath in tons of chemicals like nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide,
water vapor, etc. My height and, so I assume, lung capacity hasn't increased
much over the last few years so I'd estimate that I've been taking in a
constant amount of chemicals with each breath over this period.

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radu_floricica
I'm guessing the transition period can be made much more tolerable with a
little effort. For example take a bottle of shower gel, and every time it's
half empty fill it with water.

I'm tempted to try it. Last time I didn't shower for over a week (hiking trip)
I remember my skin looked and felt surprisingly healthy. Hair too.

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joebananas
I'll lay 10 to 1 that he hasn't.

~~~
babblefrog
I dunno. I've been completely shampoo free for about 10 months, and soap on
anything but my hands is a pretty rare occurrence. Things seem to be going
well for me. Your mileage may vary.

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ChadHydro
I've been doing no shampoo/soap only where it matters for about 6 months now
and can only report positives. I don't smell, I still shower daily (showers
being shorter now). Win in my mind.

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runjake
I'm on 2+ months. The first 2 weeks were pretty hard to deal with. Now I feel
cleaner than before. I don't seem any less clean.

I don't use shampoo or any of that crap either, but I clip my hair weekly at
1/4".

A washcloth is key.

Now that's the weather is colder, my skin doesn't feel dry or cracked anymore.

It's no big deal, really. I pass the wife test, too. I don't have any mission
or paleo-ideology behind it, I just read a couple blog posts and was minorly
curious and tried it.

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bennyk
Some of what i read was funny.You don't use soap but you use what amounts to a
corporate advertising gimmick deodorant. Probably much worse for you on the
whole. I don't use deodorant because I eat pretty well which I believe results
in what your body excretes so the issue of deodorant isn't so important as I
shower once or twice a day depending on activity.Good luck but I am not clear
what is to be gained

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e40
Interesting. His problem of dry skin went away. What about people that have
oily skin?

~~~
hvs
Almost completely unscientific answer:

I have dry skin and can vouch for the fact that your body tends to "find a
balance" if you stop using soap, and I would imagine that it would be similar
for those with oily skin (it could be that you are creating a lot of oil
because the soap is drying out your skin.

On the other hand, you may find that you just end up even oilier.

The only way to truly find out would be to test it yourself. You may just want
to try a less drying soap so your body doesn't need to generate as much oil.

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jamesbkel
I've been trying to cut back on soap/shampoo for a few years now. Currently I
shower daily, occasionally twice depending on workout schedule. I have a few
natural, non/naturally scented soaps and shampoos which I use sparingly.

The one area where I really have noticed a need for shampoo is my beard and
mustache - even when being extremely careful when eating, after a day or two
it can start to get grimy. I typically rinse with water as needed and use
Bluebeard's Beard Wash about 2x week. I've noticed a huge improvement since
using a beard wash.

Love to hear if anyone has other beard advice.

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sunjain
I have not used shapoo/soap for my hair and body for more than 10 years now(my
skin was not happy with soap). Have not had any issues(and I shower everyday).
Also I try to use hot water whenever I can instead of soap. In my case this
has more to do with sensibility than for the environment. Also I feel that,
not only shampoos & soaps may actually not be good for the body, the real way
to have health hair and skin is having proper nutrition and good life-style.

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weego
Also note that for some people problems like dry skin, dandruff and a few
bowel issues can be caused by an over-abundance of yeast in the gut. A good
preventative measure for this is to take coconut oil as a supplement.

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deskamess
Talcum powder makes an effective deodorant in my opinion. Much better than the
slide on gels in the market. However it lasts only for about 8-10 hours.

~~~
alextp
I use magnesium hydroxide, usually sold as a laxative. It is nearly the same
thing as the active ingredient in most deodorants, except it isn't an
antiperspirant nor is scented nor has a creamy consistency, etc. It's also
really cheap, and you can buy by the liter.

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Aloisius
How about using soap on half your body and objectively observing the
difference? A lot of these self-run experiments run into confirmation bias.

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spaceman77
Y'know i just use very small quantities of both. It has helped the quality of
my hair and my skin does not dry out anymore.

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adriand
I prefer washing with rest.

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burgerbrain
Sounds to me like he's some sort of "born-again virgin".

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jpr
This seems like good advice for getting rid of bad habits:

"just because I did something yesterday is not a good enough reason to do it
today"

Gotta keep that in mind.

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aneth
I've reduced my shampoo and soap usage after reading the same article with
largely positive results. I'm not sure how I feel about no soap after ice
hockey - will have to see. I've always used Dove and have avoided regular
soaps, which leave your skin unhealthily dry. Ads for Zest always make me
cringe - I don't want to squeak thank you.

I also lived in Shanghai for some time, where the air is filled with dust and
dirt. I'm not sure I could go without soap there.

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hackermom
The thing very few people realize is that you don't really get notably dirty
or smelly underneath your clothes (exception being certain odor where the sun
doesn't shine). If you work up a sweat for a long time, it's a different issue
in terms of smell, but there's really not any dirt underneath the clothes to
talk about other than epithelieals - which is nothing that water alone can't
handle. I don't use soap when showering and I smell just fine, but I do use
shampoo for my hair, and deodorant under the arms.

