
Being sued, in East Texas, for using the Google Play Store [video] - egb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eatfgXTMFf0
======
tomglynch
A comment from a reddit thread states: The gist behind this case is that the
Judge's son owns patent law firm in East Texas where they often represent both
sides. This guy doesn't live in East Texas. However, the dad lets these stupid
cases into the town to bring business to his son. Really shady.

I agree with clavelle's comment. It's not so much the laws, but the system
that allows this to occur.

Link here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4n08jj/developer_i...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/4n08jj/developer_is_being_sued_for_using_the_google_play/d405cbn)

~~~
jhayward
According to the wikipedia page for the Eastern District of Texas both of the
judges he names are retired from the court, one in 2011 and one in 2015. How
does he claim in 2016 that these judges are presiding on his case and cases
like it?

~~~
MaysonL
Perhaps they are on senior status:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_status](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senior_status)

~~~
jhayward
No, they both show as retired from the court. They're both in private practice
now.

------
mdip
Patent trolling issues aside (they're valid, but discussed and I'm just
another one of the "software patents suck guys"), I'm surprised that Google
doesn't provide protection for developers using the Play Store. It's a very
critical service for developers writing code for Android -- though it's not
_always required_ it is if you want your app to be seen.

They certainly don't have to and I'm not sure if Apple or Microsoft do or not
for their equivalents, but I know Microsoft offers patent indemnification for
a lot of things these days. It would be in Google's best interest to have a
patent indemnification policy for Google Play store.

I'd love to know what the actual numbers look like but I'd be willing to bet
that the costs are extremely low since it works as a deterrent to these kinds
of lawsuits. Patent trolls go after these lone developers because they'll
settle rather than incur the cost. It's an easy buck. This guy didn't make
Google Play, he didn't _write the code that "supposedly" infringed on the
patent_. He simply _used_ it because that's the only way _for practical
purposes_ to publish an Android app. And since the patent covers a large set
of features that Play uses for licensing, he couldn't have published through
Play and _not_ infringed in the eyes of Uniloc. The law allows anyone in the
chain (including the guy playing with the Flight Simulator) to be sued for
infringement, but they'd be very unlikely to do this kind of garbage if they
knew Google would bring their legal team into the fold. By _not_ protecting
their developers, Google has a deterrent to people using their platform.

------
hhsnopek
I find it oddly funny how Google hasn't stepped in to support their "clients",
I'd think they'd help shutdown patent trolls so developers can continue to
improve and distribute applications

~~~
optimiz3
Seriously - what the fuck Google?

It's only a matter of time until a patent troll writes a for loop on the store
index to send out infringement suits DMCA-takedown style.

~~~
muddi900
As the video mentions, people have been sued for App Store and Steam as well.

Google, and Apple and Valve, can send their own lawyers to defend these
clients, but since there are dozens of cases, it will be quite expensive. They
can maybe sue these trolls for tortous interference, but that may not stick.

So they can't do much.

~~~
thinkpad20
A couple million dollars would bankrupt the average freelance developer, some
many times over. A couple million dollars to any of those companies is
negligible. I'm not saying that money is no object, but on the other hand,
that Google or apple or whomever allows patrons of their store to be bullied
like this is, in my opinion, an embarrassment. It not only shows a lack of
concern, but it also loses them money because the apps in question probably
have to be pulled from the store. I might be off base but I absolutely think
that any of those companies could sue these trolls for their behavior. Instead
they seem to be showing that they only care about number one.

------
6stringmerc
So, no attempts to bring Davis in front of the Texas BAR association for
unethical practices?

I'm also curious why numerous developers have not demanded an Insurance
Protection Product / Plan that would take a premium in return for subrogation
(defense) if a frivolous Patent Suit is filed. I'm rather certain the market
exists and while it may be for larger businesses or players, developers
forming a Mutual Company and writing on some big name AM Best A paper (or even
going to Lloyds) could be helpful.

Anybody know of such an organization or idea?

I guess my line of thinking here is that "Yes, this is totally unfair and
rigged" and then move on to "How do I work around the issues, at least to a
limited extent, to avoid these pitfalls?" Sign me up for reform, sure, I'm all
for it. Until then, I don't like banging my head against walls, I prefer to
figure out ways around or over them.

~~~
readams
The insurance would cost more than the expected cost of the litigation which
is of course how insurance works. They key with the patent system is that you
have to pay millions to defend yourself, but it's exceptionally rare to be
able to recover attorney's fees even if you win.

So in the end it's a choice between capitulating and paying some amount (and
perhaps unleashing more trolls in the future) or wasting millions and many
many hours of your time over years of your life defending yourself.

There's no way to win, which is why this is now a big industry.

~~~
peeters
> The insurance would cost more than the expected cost of the litigation which
> is of course how insurance works. The key with the patent system is that you
> have to pay millions to defend yourself, but it's exceptionally rare to be
> able to recover attorney's fees even if you win.

If enough people buy insurance to make sure that the patent trolls never win,
then there's no money to be made and the lawyers stop suing. So the price of
insurance goes down. It's not like insuring against tornados, which are going
to happen regardless of whether the houses are insured. Furthermore, you can
state up front "IP Lawsuit Coverage provided by XXX" as a disincentive for
people to sue their members in the first place.

~~~
granos
They don't even have to never win. It just has to cost them enough that their
margin is smaller than that of some other venture.

------
mmaunder
Also:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8XknFl1l_8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8XknFl1l_8)

He visits East Texas and shows that the 'offices' of the 'companies' that hold
each patent are empty shells.

~~~
tedmiston
To save someone 8 minutes:

Tl;dr: He visits the listed offices of several dozen patent trolls in East
Texas, including one directly across from the court house. Each one is empty
with no sign of human activity. One has a secretary who claims the address is
the accounting firm for those businesses. Then one person comes out to say
that he is "a representative" of the businesses, and that those businesses
"are based in East Texas" though. He recites one sentence about patents being
property and then the video creator is kicked out.

~~~
Steko
How is this fundamentally different from our beloved SV startups organizing
themselves as Delaware C-Corps?

~~~
yompers888
One is a parasite on anyone who would dare innovate, and the other is trying
to avoid overpaying taxes.

~~~
whamlastxmas
Less to do with taxes, more to do with having a well established and
understood regulations and legal system.

------
josaka
The patent in the video is US 6857067. Claims 1, 20, 22, 30, 31, 67, 107, and
108 were invalidated by the Patent Office in an administrative proceeding, but
claims 21 and 22 survived that particular challenge. See IPR2013-00391, Final
Decision. Cost for these challenges is around $300k (and often much less for
troll suits), rather than the $2-5 million that is typically quoted for
district court cases.

------
comboy
Couldn't Google offer defense in such cases for its users? Every case is the
same so it shouldn't even be that expensive (I guess, IANAL), and it would
discourage future cases because the troll would know he will have to fight
against Google.

~~~
Shivetya
I guess I am stupid, why isn't Google the defendant, other than the fact they
have too much money. This is like being sued for shopping at the wrong store.

~~~
developer2
The problem is that the "patent" (fucking loose term of the word for something
that should never have been allowed to be filed) is about the _use_ of the
code in question. It's not the App Store that is supposedly infringing, it's
the _use_ of the App Store. What a joke.

~~~
brandonm64
Doesn't Google use the Play Store to distribute their own apps like Sheets,
Docs, Drive etc.

~~~
developer2
Right. But the patent troll doesn't want to go after a large corporation with
the resources to defend. Much easier to go after the thousands of individuals
/ small businesses that can't fund a 5 year court battle.

------
vosbert
Can these services just be disabled in East Texas to avoid their jurisdiction?
At the very least, it would force the patent trolls into more neutral
territory.

~~~
swsieber
That's a very interesting idea. I wonder if it's a viable option.

edit: It'd actually be pretty effective if you stop to think about it, even if
it doesn't technically prevent litigation.

Just think: "Sorry, this product isn't available in you're area due to patent
litigation concerns". Part of me wonders if that happened with Netflix, Google
Maps, etc. wouldn't the people start hating the patent litigation instead of
being content with it?

~~~
captainmuon
That is kind of the nuclear option of the big internet companies. I'm sure
they realize that they have this power, but they can only use it rarely, maybe
once, before there is public outcry against this "abuse of power". They're
probably saving this card it for a bigger issue.

------
corysama
Here's a vid from the same guy last year:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyW_QS8Ef8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyW_QS8Ef8)

He had just won a three year litigation with the same group, after which they
pointed out that even though he had won a battle, they had enough BS patents
to keep him in court for several lifetimes. He is currently in year 4 out of a
projected 450.

~~~
0xfeba
Jesus. I think a hitman is cheaper than the cost of all that.

------
kevinpet
I happened to read this article about recusal recently and I don't understand
how some of these allegations wouldn't be explicit grounds for recusal,
specifically the son being a lawyer with a firm that tries cases in the
father's court.

[https://popehat.com/2016/06/06/lawsplainer-when-must-
federal...](https://popehat.com/2016/06/06/lawsplainer-when-must-federal-
judges-recuse-themselves-anyway/) Article is in the context of Trump, but you
needn't let that turn you off.

------
eonw
i was the victim of a patent trolling company called acacia research. they
sent me a bunch of legal threats but had my name spelled incorrectly, which
happened to give away who had sold my info to them(in exchange for dropping
the case a certain entity traded all of their affiliates info to acacia). i
was 19 at the time and laughed it off. nothing ever came of it, but in
hindsight it certainly wasn't a laughing matter. in the end i think someone
staged a pretty good defense and crushed their patent.

------
Claudus
Judge Davis retired May 15, 2015

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Davis_(judge)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Davis_\(judge\))

~~~
CameronBanga
Thank God, all of this should be coming to an end any day now.

~~~
Pica_soO
Son appointed judge, family clan as associates in law-firm... The world does
not work this way.

~~~
jhayward
The president appoints federal judges. Not too likely that he's thinking about
how to rig the patent court in East Texas.

------
dougmccune
Is there a unified place one can donate to that people think is the best way
to put some money toward real change in the system? I'm happy to send some
money to the EFF, but I'd up that 100 times if I knew it was going 100% toward
killing patent trolls and I thought it was the best organization to fight that
fight.

~~~
mmaunder
Agreed. I'd love to see Austin set up a gofundme with specific goals,
milestones, a well defined team and strategy. We'd contribute if it's
something that would bring about real change.

------
FesterCluck
I thought we already squashed this shit:
[http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/26/uniloc-patent-troll-
defea...](http://www.engadget.com/2016/03/26/uniloc-patent-troll-defeated/)

------
JakeWesorick
Really seems like Google/Apple should make some kind of statement calling out
how ridiculous these lawsuits are.

~~~
Flott
Could Google do more then a statement? It can't be good for their business if
people are being sued for simply uploading an app to the Play Store.

~~~
djrogers
When developers were sued by Lodsys Apple intervened with a motion due to the
fact that the developers were covered under Apple's license. After 2 years,
the judge refused to hear the motion and threw it out...

------
aurizon
The only way you can deal with trolls is to slay them. Attribution of costs
does not work. Most trolls consist of lawyers who create paper work and file
it. They do not hire outside law firms at $500+ per hour - the ones their
victims are forced to hire. The only tru costs they have are the file fees,
which East Texas keeps low. That town is totally a parasitic town and they
award wins to trolls to keep the town in cash that trickles down.

I say slay the trolls, slay the judges, slay them all - by legal means if
possible. I would love to find an old Texas law that allows trial by combat
with no substitutions...

------
curiousgal
I'm no advocate of violence but this makes you wonder about the ethics of
beating such guys up. The legal system seems pointless.

~~~
davesque
You're wondering about the _ethics_ of beating someone up to get what you
want?

~~~
CamperBob2
My view is admittedly a bit on the extreme side (to put it mildly) but I'd see
it as similar to hunting Somali pirates or Congolese poachers for sport. There
are things a human can do to set themselves apart from the rest of humanity,
and patent trolling is one of them.

Patent trolls don't rise (sink) to the level of child molesters, serial
killers or ISIS terrorists, but still... I wouldn't shed any tears if
something really bad happened to these people, whether by accident or design.
They attack the best of us while contributing nothing. We don't need them.

~~~
allendoerfer
I think it is important to acknowledge why people do things they do.

\- Somali pirates and Congolese poachers: poor and miserable conditions with
no perspective to get out of it

\- patent trolls: greedy, moral-less legal positivists

\- serial killers: psychopaths

\- ISIS terrorists: brainwashed losers, who want easy answers, a mission, a
group and a leader

\- child molesters: I would say mentally ill

If you see it like this, you can fix the problems below. You will still have
to protect society from serial killers, but all others seem to be solvable.

\- African criminals: fix Africa

\- legal positivists: fix the law

\- ISIS terrorists: fix ghettos

\- child molesters: fix paedophilia

Of course this will only fix the problem for future generations. Potential
patent trolls will be assholes in a post-troll world, too, but you will always
have to deal with those. There are paedophiles who are not human scum, but are
aware what consequences their actions could have. That is also why the
catholic church with its celibacy is so attractive to some of them.

I personally think that institutions must act perfectly morally, but
personally affected individuals should be required ultima ratio to act against
morals and be later judged and punished for it. So in this case, when you are
a small developer and there is no way out …

~~~
Grishnakh
I don't know how you can "fix" paedophilia, any more than you can "fix"
psychopathy. AFAICT, they're both mental disorders that are very deep-seated
and probably unfixable, at least until we have better biomedical technology
and a better understanding of the human brain. There's probably ways we might
be able to identify these people as high-risk and put them in programs to
monitor them and help them avoid committing crimes, but that's more of a work-
around than a fix.

Patent trolls aren't much different from serial killers, though: they're both
socio/psychopaths (same thing really). Patent trolls aren't violent, and are
greedy for money, that's the main difference. But the law itself you could say
is a work-around for problems like this, but as we see here the law is broken
and needs to be fixed because the sociopaths have figured out a way to abuse
the law for their gain.

~~~
allendoerfer
> but that's more of a work-around than a fix

Depends on your point of view. In the point of view of a paedophile,
sterilisation might not seem like a fix, society itself thinks different.

>Patent trolls aren't much different from serial killers, though: they're both
socio/psychopaths (same thing really)

I thought so, too, but then did decided to not call them that, because I
imagine that many of them are just not "into market economy" (you get money in
exchange for providing value). They see a gap in the law and try to take it
from "the big guys", who have it anyway. There are many other groups of
people, who think that they are somehow entitled to get money they did not
provide value for.

~~~
Grishnakh
>They see a gap in the law and try to take it from "the big guys", who have it
anyway.

There's a difference between suing Google or MS for patent violations, and
suing some small business that's just selling an app on Google Play store.
These patent trolls are frequently going after small companies because they
know they're more likely to settle. That's sociopathic, it's not like Robin
Hood.

------
jiiam
It's good to raise awareness, especially on the users of the play store (I
mean, the developers).

For example I learned a lot from this video: in case I decided to sell an app
on any store, I'd better contact my lawyer to get advised on where and how to
incorporate my company.

I don't know if it can be easily resolved by incorporating in another country,
but the difficulties of an international litigation should discourage trolls.

~~~
djsumdog
New Zealand. They banned software patents.

~~~
mobilefriendly
There's broad exclusion for software in Europe as well.

------
barkingdog
A while back, I did some research into patent trolls, and came across the
history of NPE firms that do DPA (defensive patent aggregation), like RPX [0].
What surprised me from a game theoretical perspective was how murky things
got. These situations can be tough on entrepreneurs and seem to create space
for said entrepreneur to purchase protection in the form of patent aggregation
to mitigate against potential devastation caused by this. On one hand, I can
see how it can amount to a protection racket. On the other hand, the existence
of patents and how they relate to property are pretty complex. This TechCrunch
article about RPX does a good job of going into further detail about this, but
truth be told, I am even more on the fence after reading this. I agree that
patent reform would be necessary to rectify this situation, but in the
meantime, I can't think of a better alternative. The cynic inside me can't
help but think that business is always it's own kind of war, sadly.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPX_Corporation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPX_Corporation)
[1] [http://techcrunch.com/2008/11/24/is-rpxs-defensive-patent-
ag...](http://techcrunch.com/2008/11/24/is-rpxs-defensive-patent-aggregation-
simply-patent-extortion-by-another-name/)

~~~
deepsun
I came from an European country, and the root cause seems pretty clear to me:
why defending yourself in court is so damn expensive? In my country, you don't
often need an attorney (although for complex cases you certainly do), but even
if you do hire an attorney, they cost way, way less. Like $20,000 for a
complex case, and it's going to be a team of lawyers.

Also, companies just don't sue each other that often. I don't know why US is
different.

~~~
tripzilch
I'm reading this thread with a similar wonder: they seem to be blaming
everything but the broken legal system.

Google should fix it, East-Texas should fix it, Texas should fix it, donation
to legal funds should fix it, insurance should fix it, more campaigning and
lobbying should fix it, we should let them fight to the death that will fix
it!

Hmhm. Quite :)

~~~
dragonwriter
> I'm reading this thread with a similar wonder: they seem to be blaming
> everything but the broken legal system.

Except they are blaming the legal system, as you yourself enumerate:

> more campaigning and lobbying should fix it

Campaigning and lobbying are ways of effecting change _to_ the system of laws.

~~~
tripzilch
> Campaigning and lobbying are ways of effecting change to the system of laws.

Yes of course they are. But that way those with the biggest army of lobbyists
and campaign donations are going to decide what your laws will be. This is
part of your _problem_ , not your solution!

------
kukx
What about making an "anti patent troll" website that will allow users to
share their legal approaches and documents and the rest of the defense
materials. Some of them may be reusable. I guess it should significantly limit
the legal costs for everyone and improve their position against trolls, right?

~~~
tim333
I was toying with doing that. Even got a domain name. Might be a bit of a
hassle though. Dunno. Thoughts anyone? Would it help? Would I get sued?

~~~
toss1941
IANAL but I'd setup the corporate entity outside the US and hire a mail
forwarding service of some kind to redirect all the mail to your home.

------
djsumdog
America needs to follow New Zealand's example:

Ban software patents!

~~~
vacri
In the video, he says that the politicians stopped the issue from even being
voted on. That's without Silicon Valley stepping in to really lobby against
that kind of ban (NZ has no equivalent of SV)

~~~
deepsun
Big companies in Silicon Valley can defend themselves, so they don't care.
It's small businesses that are affected.

And big companies do not really want competition from small businesses.

------
dak1
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Richardson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ric_Richardson)

"Ric Richardson is an Australian inventor. He is the holder of multiple
granted patents including the Uniloc patent US5490216 and the Logarex patent
6400293. Although he spent twelve years in California to promote and develop
products produced by Uniloc, Richardson grew up in Sydney and currently
resides just outside Byron Bay.

He is the founder of Uniloc, a company based on the technology he first
patented in 1992."

Here's his picture from the Uniloc web site: [http://uniloc.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/ricrichardson.p...](http://uniloc.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/ricrichardson.png)

He's apparently insanely talented, having "invented" the panic button, the
visual voice recorder, the 3G skype phone, the secure browser, the universal
database, the carbon scrubber, the book dispensor, "media objects", the
"Internet Computer", QR Codes, DRM, a password replacement system, TV muting,
and several dozen other devices, just in the past 16 years alone.[1]

[1] [https://sites.google.com/site/ricricho/ric-s-
inventions](https://sites.google.com/site/ricricho/ric-s-inventions)

~~~
igravious
Full name: Frederick Bailier Richardson III

Am thinking these activities devalue the terms invention and inventor. Would
prefer that to patent some process that you had invented you ought to have to
come up with a device to implement said process. You may not even know how to
realise your idea in practise which is kind of where all the hard work is. An
not saying idea for processes are ten a penny but the bar needs to be raised.

------
masswerk
What to do about this?

I'm told, you may be put to trial in East Texas, if you're selling your goods
or services there. – So, why not stop selling to East Texas and let them
settle the resulting collision of interests themselves?

~~~
dragonwriter
(1) That would probably work under the existing rules.

(2) There is an active legal challenge to the existing rules (arguing that
they misapply two separate provisions of law as if one controls a definition
in the other, when that is not the case), which if successful would radically
shake up patent venue and pretty much end the "drag everyone into ED Texas"
thing we have going on right now. [0]

[0] [http://patentlyo.com/patent/2016/04/circuit-continues-
allowa...](http://patentlyo.com/patent/2016/04/circuit-continues-
allowance.html)

------
rwhitman
Yet another example of the consumer software industry being completely
impotent when it comes to defending itself.

Patent trolls file these frivolous lawsuits because they make millions and
suffer zero consequences for their actions. Why? Because there is no industry
trade group representing the software industry with any sort of teeth. They
know software developers have money, and they know software developers are
absurdly weak when it comes to defending themselves. Software developers are
easy prey.

Other than the EFF who is out there to represent us with any measure of real
leverage over the legal process? Who is out there with the muscle to make
patent trolls and software unfriendly lawmakers have second thoughts when
targeting developers?

With no lobbies or trade associations with any sort of power out there
representing consumer software, anyone with even minor influence over
government can simply walk all over software developers, again and again and
again. The consumer software industry has enormous amounts of cash at it's
disposal, surely a few cash rich companies can pool enough resources together
to kick off a trade association worthy of punching back, hard

~~~
dancablam
Somebody needs to create a FUPA for anti-patent trolling

------
finstell
Uniloc has this piece of Google Maps screenshot hosted at their web server.
Isn't this not allowed? [http://www.uniloc.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/Screen-shot...](http://www.uniloc.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/Screen-shot-2010-08-05-at-10.11.47-AM-300x248.png)

------
fouric
While I applaud what Austin Meyer is doing by raising awareness about patent
trolls, does anyone here but me wish that the content had been made available
in some sort of text medium instead? I can't think of any important parts of
the video that couldn't have been reasonably conveyed through the use of text.

~~~
angry-hacker
I agree, but maybe because he said he wants to raise the awareness of 'simple'
people, such as jurors, etc. Video is probably better medium to go viral than
some text about software parents regarding non techies.

------
tronium
Interestingly, the login button doesn't even work at uniloc.com, and if you
look in the source, there's a ton of commented-out paragraphs that say stuff
like "<h2>The spirit of innovation is alive and well at Uniloc.</h2>".

~~~
dylan-m
Fun fact: their website has listings turned on and runs an ancient version of
WordPress last touched in 2012.

[http://www.uniloc.com/wp-content/](http://www.uniloc.com/wp-content/)

It's like they're _trying_ to be as obviously illiterate as they possibly can.

~~~
ghurtado
Including publicly accessible database backups. I haven't seen such disregard
for security in a very long time.

For a "software security company" they sure are begging for their website to
be hacked.

Or maybe it is a honeypot?

~~~
glastra
INSERT INTO `wpu_users` VALUES (2, 'bdavis', [...], 'bdavis',
'bdavis@uniloc.com', '', '2010-08-05 18:06:44', '', 0, 'bdavis');

What the hell? Could this be the lawyer the video talks about?

Apparently not:

> Bradley C. Davis, Brad serves as the Chief Executive Officer of Uniloc USA

------
JustSomeNobody
How has East Texas not been shut down already?

~~~
Zikes
Everybody in the chain of responsibility capable of doing so stands to
financially benefit from this practice continuing.

For a business to claim it's "based in" East Texas it'll have to pay its taxes
there. Local litigation law firms are bringing tons of money into the area,
further increasing local revenue. Shutting it down would probably even knock a
significant slice off of the state's income.

------
cft
One practical thing one could do is to forward this to an influential tech
journalist, ideally to a mainstream publication that has a technology section,
like CNN or WSJ.

------
froo
Someone really needs to create a patent that defines methods of patent
trolling, so every time one of these scumbags starts a lawsuit you can sue
them.

~~~
mcbits
Someone (Halliburton!) already tried:
[http://www.google.com/patents/US20080270152](http://www.google.com/patents/US20080270152)

Edit: And IBM apparently got one granted:
[http://www.google.com/patents/US8386350](http://www.google.com/patents/US8386350)

~~~
chadcmulligan
lol, after a quick glance at the IBM one it seems to be patenting software
that manages patent portfolios (maybe). How utterly bizarre

------
touchofevil
Would incorporating your tech company in England instead of the USA protect
your company from these patent troll lawsuits? It's extremely easy to start a
company based in England, even as a US citizen living in the USA. With the
patent trolling this out of control in the US at the moment, would basing your
company abroad offer you any protection?

~~~
Grishnakh
Yes, if your product or service is only available in England.

No, if you sell your product or service in the US (or at least East Texas). It
doesn't matter where your company is incorporated, it only matters where you
do business.

------
captainmuon
There's only so far a justice system can get dysfunctional before people say
fukitall and it looses its legitimacy. It's not just patents, civil forfeiture
is another thing that comes to mind and I'm sure there more.

I imagine if in future somebody gets such a patent lawsuit, they'd just rip up
the letter and throw it away. Police comes to carry out court orders because
they decided in absence? "Sorry officer, the reason you're here is just patent
bullshit." \- "Oh well, I won't lift a finger for these idiots. Sorry for
bothering you, have a nice day!"

Or a more extreme reaction: already in this thread, a couple of people are
fantasizing about violence, hiring a hitman and so on. I realize it is mostly
meant jokingly, but self-justice is another effect of a justice system that's
lost legitimacy.

Rule-of-law is a great thing to have, but it only works if these laws are
somewhat reasonable and in accord with peoples moral values...

------
abrookewood
Here's written coverage of the situation in case you don't have time to watch
the video: [http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/06/07/x-plane-flight-
simul...](http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/06/07/x-plane-flight-simulator-
patent-troll-uniloc/)

------
TheMagicHorsey
The American patent system is a dead weight drag on the American software
economy. The quality of software patents is atrocious, and the value of the
tiny fraction of good patents in this space does not make up for the Billions
lost to trolls and the costs of administering the system.

------
Alupis
Judge Leonard Davis presides over a large amount of these "Patent Troll"
cases, and his son (!!) Bo Davis is a Lawyer who represents these very same
Patent Trolls in court!

If that's not a racket, I don't know what is.

------
tronium
Question: Is a lot of the backend supposed to be available through going
directly to the wp-content? If you go to uniloc.com/wp-content/, there's
backups, images, plugins, and even a .sql file...

~~~
WhatIsThisIm12
Hah nice. Probably not the kind of firm you want to be messing with,
however...

Then again I'll just leave this here.

[http://uniloc.com/wp-
content/backup-9b7a1/uniloc_wpu_2012032...](http://uniloc.com/wp-
content/backup-9b7a1/uniloc_wpu_20120326_014.sql)

------
Sharma
How about creating a petition here about this issue and we all sign it?

[https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/)

------
owaislone
Will Peter Thiel help? These trolls are actually destroying lives.

------
pascalxus
For all the entrepreneurs looking for a problem to solve, here it is: Create a
company/product that automates legal services (start with the niche case for
defending against Patent Trolls): then offer it as a service, say with a flat
fee. If the cost of this service is on the order of hundreds of dollars, say
less than 500$, it should solve the problem of frivolous law suits. This sub-
niche is huge!

------
blubb-fish
How about a patent about placing the right foot into a solid hollow object
with three to four cylinder shaped objects (with low height to radius ratio)
separating that hollow object from the surface of the earth - yeah - and well,
then driving with it ... will have to think about how to make that sound smart
and original.

How is this even for real - why is Google not putting an end to it?

------
BuckRogers
If Google won't step in and litigate the patent trolls into poverty, ruining
everyone's life who is involved and possibly even promising to ruin their
children's and grandchildren's lives long after the actual patent trolls are
dead...

that would stop it.

But in the meantime, guess I'll just be writing webapps.

------
thinkcomp
The docket for the lawsuit in question is here:

[http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/sknqayqz/texas-eastern-
dist...](http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/sknqayqz/texas-eastern-district-
court/uniloc-usa-inc-et-al-v-laminar-research-llc/)

------
veeragoni
Someone patent "the idea of having a patent" and Sue these companies in
Hawaii.

------
jitix
Somehow this all seems illegal. I'm not that familiar with the US law so can
somebody explain if the defendant can claim that the judge has a conflict of
interest and is not fit to handle the case because his son profits from it?

~~~
arcticfox
Well it's very unlikely the judge directly works his son's cases due to that
obvious conflict. Rather, the judge works a random set of cases brought in
East Texas and works them favorably for trolls. So many troll cases get
brought in that district, hoping for this judge or other friendly judges.

It's obviously rotten but that one-step removed corruption is probably not
explicitly codified as wrong anywhere. Hopefully the legal system finds a way
to root it out.

------
bnycum
I live less than an hour from Marshall, TX. Maybe an hour and a half from
Tyler, TX. I'd love to help in any way I could, but since I'm not a lawyer I
bet anything I could do is slim to nothing.

------
x13
Glad to see he won.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyW_QS8Ef8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbyW_QS8Ef8)

------
VonGuard
OK HN, get out there and find this man some prior art so we can all just put
this company out of business...

------
dematio
If Peter Thiel could do it, why not Google? It does not cost much for Google
to invalidate the patent.

------
mholt
"... defend myself for committing the crime of ..."

But a lawsuit is a civil case, not a criminal case, right?

------
cgtyoder
"I'm not here to raise awareness! Ok, yes, maybe that's what I'm doing."

------
iLoch
Is the process of filing a patent patented?

------
floatalong
As angry as this video makes me, I'd point out that we've been making some
progress in the fight against trolls. Yes, they're still a problem, but some
things that have weakened them:

The Supreme Court's ruling in Alice v. CLS Bank, which dealt a fatal blow to a
lot of software patents out there (especially the awful, vague and overly
broad patents that trolls love so much). The Supreme Court reaffirmed that
merely "adding a generic computer to perform generic computer functions" does
not make an otherwise abstract idea patentable. [0] This ruling helps get rid
of cases earlier. While it doesn't kill off patent litigation, it makes it
easier for us to fight low-quality assertions. More importantly, this puts a
tougher filter for prosecution of new patent applications, the vast majority
of which are dumb and overly broad.

Inter Partes Review (IPR) proceedings, which are rather expensive (average
$278,000) [1], but are much cheaper than litigation. Third parties can use
IPRs to challenge patent claims (patentability) based on prior art patents and
publications. In the case of Austin Meyer's patent defense, many of the patent
claims were invalidated through this kind of proceeding, and petitioned by a
consortium (Distinctive Developments, Ltd., Electronic Arts Inc., Gameloft
S.E., Halfbrick Studios Pty Ltd., Laminar Research LLC, Mojang AB and Square
Enix, Inc.). [2]

Heightened pleading standards. Before December 2015, it used to be that trolls
could sue dozens of companies with cookie-cutter complaints, citing no real
facts, and put on pressure for settlements by threatening lengthy and costly
discovery proceedings. But thanks to decisions in Iqbal/Twombly, complaints
must plead facts and recite aspects of the accused product that are alleged to
infringe. This butchers the spam lawsuit tactic, and the day before this went
into effect, trolls filed a one day record for new suits. [3] Shameful, yes,
but it's helped clarify standards governing motions to dismiss.

[0] [https://www.eff.org/files/2014/06/19/alice-corp._v._cls-
bank...](https://www.eff.org/files/2014/06/19/alice-corp._v._cls-
bank_opinion.pdf)

[1] [https://www.rpxcorp.com/2015/07/02/iprs-reality-amid-the-
pyr...](https://www.rpxcorp.com/2015/07/02/iprs-reality-amid-the-
pyrotechnics/)

[2] search patent number 6857067 and document 37 at
[https://ptabtrials.uspto.gov](https://ptabtrials.uspto.gov)

[3] [http://fortune.com/2015/12/02/patent-lawsuit-
record/](http://fortune.com/2015/12/02/patent-lawsuit-record/)

------
stevesun21
WTF! This is ridiculous. later these people might start sue people use cell
phone.

------
clavalle
People will mention the problem with patents but I see another, perhaps
bigger, problem:

We do not have equal access to our judicial system in the United States.

If you have money, you have the power to legally hold people with less over a
barrel. That exploitable inequality is poison for a well functioning society.
That is the problem that needs solving.

~~~
distances
"Loser pays" would go a long way, I think. Not being that familiar with the US
system, what's the reasoning not to have this?

~~~
saint_fiasco
If loser pays, poor people would be discouraged from even attempting to sue
rich people.

Even if the poor person has a legitimate claim, there is a small probability
that the rich person will win with their superior lawyers and the poor person
will be bankrupted by the legal fees. Since they will know that from the
beginning, they won't sue in the first place.

~~~
jules
This comes up every single time, but it remains false. Loser pays does not
mean that the loser has to pay a gigantic amount for the opponent's extremely
expensive lawyers. Loser pays means that the judge determines what is a
reasonable amount for the legal fees. Often the amount you have to pay for
your opponent's lawyers is limited to what you paid for your own. So unless
you hire extremely expensive lawyers yourself, you won't have to pay a huge
amount if you lose. If a party wants a much more expensive defence they have
to pay for that extra cost regardless of whether they win.

Almost every country except the United States uses this system.

~~~
golergka
> judge determines what is a reasonable amount for the legal fees

That just gives financial unsupervised power to the judge, without any clear
definition of involved terms. Which doesn't really sound like a good idea.

~~~
distances
Somehow it seems to work quite fine. I can't say if judges here have some
approximate documentation for acceptable hourly costs and work loads, or if
it's decided case by case.

~~~
masklinn
The US has elected judges, who have to campaign, and raise campaign money. The
chances are non-nil that the "rich person" has, could or will contribute to
the judge's campaign funds.

------
nichochar
Welcome to america

------
joshbaptiste
TLDW - Patent troll sues Xplane creator after he migrated his app to the
Google play store. They claim they own the general idea of the Google play
store. Law firms create these cases for billable hours for their lawyers and
some of their parent judges in Texas. Patent trolls and law firms in the end
want to receive a settlement by targeting app creators and not Google
themselves who are well equipped to defend themselves,
[http://www.thepatentscam.com/](http://www.thepatentscam.com/) .

~~~
MrMullen
Logically, how is this even possible? Xplane does not own Google Play Store
and Xplane is not aware that Google is violating a patent then how is Xplane
responsible for the patent violation? This strikes me a 15 minute conversation
in front of a judge. "Sir, I did not know Google was violating a patent and I
have withdrawn my application after being told so" and that should be the end
of it.

~~~
namlem
Because this particular judge refuses to throw out illegitimate patent cases
because he's corrupt as fuck. He recently retired, but presumably someone else
just filled his place.

------
dingo_bat
Someone with money and lawyers needs to sue the state of Texas for allowing a
father and son duo to practice in such a conflict of interest fashion. This is
a clear cut case of corruption.

~~~
DannyBee
I'm not even sure where to begin with this :) First, you can't sue a state
without their permission, they have sovereign immunity. Second, you would have
no standing unless you were directly affected Third, outside of violating non-
binding legal ethics rules, it's not clear what law you think this somehow
violates.

The state can pretty much do whatever it wants here.

Plus, all of this is _federal_ anyway, so suing the state of texas would
accomplish nothing.

Outside of random statutes, your best bet would probably be due process
violations, but ...

~~~
MichaelBurge
A lawsuit might not be appropriate, but there is a separate 'right to petition
the government' for that.

~~~
DannyBee
Sure. However, note the supreme court has not, AFAIK, held a right to sue in
general:

[http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/right-to-
sue](http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/right-to-sue)

They have essentially grounded these claims in due process violations, etc,
and then found a right to file _those_ lawsuits. Not a right to sue for
anything.

When they have tried to find rights in the right to petition (and i will grant
that historically, it included a right to sue), it has been cases where
someone is directly trying to affect a constitutional right.

Also nobody has to give a damn about what you say:

"Nothing in the First Amendment or in this Court's case law interpreting it
suggests that the rights to speak, associate, and petition require government
policymakers to listen or respond to communications of members of the public
on public issues."

------
johansch
How do you americans still allow East Texas to be a part of the United States?
They're clearly rogue?

------
zoner
So do not register your company in the USA, otherwise you have to deal with
patent trolls.

------
lintiness
welcome to a political system (and indeed a world) run by lawyers.

~~~
treehau5
And the 'democratic' party just 'nominated' a lawyer-at-heart as well, who has
perfectly demonstrated that lawyeresque doublespeak can shield you from any
blame or responsibility of actions that would have lesser plebeians
dishonored, fired on the spot, jailed or any combination thereof.

I guess we must secretly love getting screwed over.

------
KON_Air
All the Mobile Marketplaces are on fire. Nice.

Posted from my Windows Phone 8.1

------
superbatfish
At least that totally rad cliff diving video that YouTube queued up afterwards
was a nice chaser.

~~~
shivsta
Might have been specifically recommended for you. Mine was different.

------
davemel37
It's time to call in John Oliver...He's our last and only hope!

~~~
cloudjacker
He's already done a video on this, the same guy was featured in it

------
joshuaheard
A couple of misconceptions in this video. Patent infringement is not a crime.
A son lawyer appearing in front of his judge father would not be allowed for
conflict of interest in most circumstances.

That being said, patent trolling is obviously a problem, and legislation to
fix the problem is making its way through Congress.

~~~
knorker
1) Did he say crime? I don't think he ever did.

2) He never said the son appeared in front of his judge father. I'm almost
100% on that too.

So misconceptions in what you misheard, I guess.

~~~
joshuaheard
He said crime.

If the son is not appearing in front of the judge, then the judge's rulings
don't benefit the son in any way. If you are arguing the judge's ruling is
somehow affecting the reputation of the court and attracting cases, the
lawyers know it is only that judge, unless you are implying some sort of
conspiracy among the federal judges to be patent troll-friendly.

~~~
knorker
I'm not arguing that. _HE_ appears to be though.

------
slmyers
I'm not sure if this would help, but I think we should all tweet a link to
this video clip to John Oliver.

[https://twitter.com/iamjohnoliver?lang=en](https://twitter.com/iamjohnoliver?lang=en)

or maybe this twitter account

[https://twitter.com/LastWeekTonight?lang=en](https://twitter.com/LastWeekTonight?lang=en)

~~~
devrs0
He has already covered it once:
[https://youtu.be/3bxcc3SM_KA?t=96](https://youtu.be/3bxcc3SM_KA?t=96)

