

Google Creates Alphabet, but Runs into BMW - denzil_correa
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/12/technology/google-creates-alphabet-but-runs-into-bmw.html?_r=0

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rco8786
Seems like a non-issue. They did no research ahead of time regarding
alphabet.com/@alphabet handles... this would indicate that they are not that
concerned about the visibility/branding of the holding company, which stands
to reason.

It's not like they didn't think about these things when they were naming, they
just don't care.

~~~
DarkTree
Yeah, to imply that the leaders of a massively successful company didn't think
to look into naming issues is extremely naive or grasping for news straws at
best.

~~~
kraig
In a way they may have not or they would have confirmed that BMW wouldn't have
an issue with it.

~~~
tobyjsullivan
It's not up to BMW. It's up to trademark law. And trademark law is quite well
established in this context that there's no issue.

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dragonwriter
Runs into in what way?

Sure, BMW owns alphabet.com -- Alphabet, Inc., uses abc.xyz, and probably
doesn't care about alphabet.com. They aren't a consumer-facing entity, all the
consumer facing entities are presumably going to be subsidiaries with their
own names and identities.

And, sure, BMW has a trademark on Alphabet in particular domains. Again,
Alphabet, Inc., is a parent entity, its quite likely the subsidiaries will all
be doing business under their own names, not using "Alphabet" as a trademark
in a way that would conflict with BMW's trademark.

~~~
andrepd
Runs into in the sense that the first website people will type when trying to
access the website of Google's Alphabet is surely alphabet.com.

~~~
deelowe
Why would people be accessing the proposed alphabet.com? There's not going to
be any consumer related stuff there. In fact, I'd be surprised if abc.xyz will
change much.

~~~
andrepd
Yes, I know that. But I can see where the "problem" resides, even if it's not
actually a problem at all :)

~~~
deelowe
I think the point of the name is to be as common and forgettable as possible.
Alphabet isn't going to be some huge brand or anything. It's literally just a
holding company for the major bands (former) Google wants to see flourish on
their own.

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fecak
Timely considering PG's post earlier in the week
[http://paulgraham.com/name.html](http://paulgraham.com/name.html)

~~~
molecule
_> Unless you're so big that your reputation precedes you..._

~~~
fecak
Agreed that nobody is going to think Google is a marginal company. IANAL, but
I'd think it's a bit odd that nobody from Google would contact BMW (as BMW
spokesperson said in article). An announcement this big concerning two large
companies doesn't seem a situation where you'd ask forgiveness rather than
permission.

~~~
icebraining
Permission/forgiveness for what?

~~~
fecak
There's a fairly common saying about it being preferable to "beg forgiveness"
than to "ask permission". In this case, I was referring to Google possibly
mentioning to BMW their intent to use the Alphabet name.

------
stephengillie
Engadget article:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10043212](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10043212)

\---

 _...the Internet domain alphabet.com, as well as the trademark Alphabet,
already belonged to someone else — namely, the German automaker BMW. And if
they had dialed BMW headquarters in Munich, they would have discovered
something else: BMW does not want to sell._

Well that's embarrassing. Good thing they launched with abc.xyz.

But wait...

 _Just because one company uses a name does not mean another company cannot
use it. Trademark infringement occurs if another company’s use could create
confusion with consumers, according to the United States Patent and Trademark
Office._

~~~
Zigurd
Good thing one of them is a car company...

~~~
nemo
BMW noticed Google's pushing into the (self-driving) car business. That's what
their trademark complaint's based on.

~~~
dragonwriter
> BMW noticed Google's pushing into the (self-driving) car business.

Kind of hard not to.

> That's what their trademark complaint's based on.

BMW hasn't filed a trademark complaint. They haven't even indicated that they
think that there is a violation. They have said they are looking into whether
any infringement has taken place, which is many miles short of having a
complaint.

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mxfh
Journalist needs to create Article, types Alphabet into Google.com.

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quadrature
Is it actually important for the holding company to be well branded ?

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bitmapbrother
This is an article looking for a problem. Google doesn't care about
Alphabet.com nor did Google ever approach BMW at any time to make an offer for
it. It's a holding company, not a brand and in keeping with Google's playful
nature abc.xyz fits them just fine.

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h1fra
They couldn't care less. The name does not actually mater for an holding and
the website will not likely be used for anything. I think no one will actually
search for this.

alphabet.com does not even reach the page 1 nor will abc.xyz (unless they are
faking results)

------
wanghq
Google -> abc.xyz -> alphabet -> a to z -> a2z.com -> Amazon

~~~
melvinmt
-> abc.wtf

~~~
stephengillie
a16z

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WalterBright
I don't think single common English words should be trademark-able. Remember
when Zilog tried to trademark the letter Z? Didn't Intel try to trademark a
number?

~~~
sp332
Yes, and UPS has trademarked brown (and T-mobile has purple). Remember that
trademarks are limited to certain categories. If you're not competing with
UPS, you can use brown etc.

~~~
WalterBright
I know how trademark works (I have a registered tm myself), but am suggesting
that it change. To my mind trademarking 'brown' is so thoroughly uncreative. A
trademark should be more than a common English word.

~~~
dragonwriter
Trademark isn't intended to be about creativity (that's copyright), trademark
is intended to be about preventing commercial confusion.

~~~
WalterBright
The "Pixels" thing clearly shows that trademarking common English words is
ripe for confusion. A little creativity would go a long way towards reducing
confusion.

~~~
sp332
You can't make DMCA request for trademarks. That was a copyright complaint
that looked for a common English word. The complaint would have been overly
broad whether or not it was trademarked.

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tobyjsullivan
TL;DR: Alphabet can't buy alphabet.com but clearly didn't intend to because it
is already using abc.xyz.

Just a click-bait headline.

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massysett
Reminds me of Qwikster. The Twitter handle was already taken, and wasn't the
avatar Elmo with a cigarette in his mouth?

Knowing Google the decision was probably about as hasty as Qwikster was.

It's not that holding company names aren't important. Kraft realized
otherwise. They certainly thought about it before they picked Mondelez.

------
coldcode
Still seems stupid to not at least try to buy the facebook+domain name and the
twitter handle @alphabet. I bet the twitter owner would love to part with it
for a few million. Even BMW might be amenable to enough scratch.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Still seems stupid to not at least try to buy the facebook+domain name and
> the twitter handle @alphabet.

Why? AFAICT, the whole point of Alphabet, Inc. is to maintain common ownership
while reducing the visible ties between the various components. I don't see
Alphabet _qua_ Alphabet being the focal point of PR efforts, so why do they
need those kind of public-facing identities?

> I bet the twitter owner would love to part with it for a few million. Even
> BMW might be amenable to enough scratch.

And I bet Alphabet, Inc., is happy keeping the money and letting the current
owners keep the Facebook and Twitter identities, the Alphabet.com domain name,
etc.

Sure, they could spend money buying everything in existence that has the word
"Alphabet" associated with it -- but why?

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ljk
> _BMW is examining whether any trademark infringement has taken place, Ms.
> Sandstede said._

how likely are they gonna get trademark infringement notice?

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antaviana
This is a non-issue that will be cured when Alphabet's car subsidiari sells
self-driving BMW. Juzt like the non-issue between Apple, the device maker, and
Apple, the owner of Beatles songs, was finally cured when Beatles songs
started to be sold on iTunes.

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o0-0o
I have been looking all over, but can't find where Alphabet is incorporated.
Anybody have the answer?

~~~
ianhawes
Delaware. "Alphabet, Inc" was created on July 23rd, 2015.

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return0
Maybe google plans to buy BMW ...

~~~
kuschku
After BMW just bought the last remains of Nokia (including the smart-driving
subsidy of Nokia that produced 3D scans of all european streets), I don’t
think so.

Also Google is, for a carmaker, tiny. VW, for example, is over twice as large
as Google.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Also Google is, for a carmaker, tiny. VW, for example, is over twice as
> large as Google.

By what measure? Market cap, Google is one of the biggest companies in the
world, (#2 behind Apple, last I heard) in the neighborhood of $450 billion. VW
Group is around $100 billion. Google's _cash on hand_ is on the rough order of
magnitude of VW's _market cap_.

~~~
kuschku
Google has less assets, half of the profit and half of the revenue of VW.

Google has a higher valuation due to an investment bubble, not due to actual
economics.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Google has less assets, half of the profit and half of the revenue of VW.

Most recent quarterly numbers are more like Google has 1/3 of the _revenue_ of
VW but 85% of the _profits_.

> Google has a higher valuation due to an investment bubble, not due to actual
> economics.

Even if it was due to an investment bubble rather than, say, rational
expectations of stronger long-term growth based on market characteristics,
well, investment bubbles are as much "actual economics" as anything else.

~~~
kuschku
Advertising in general is a grossly overvalued business.

VW will still build cars, engines and small-scale power plants in a century.

Web advertising is already becoming an issue now, with more and more people
moving to mobile, vendors pre-installing adblockers and even ad agencies
starting to doubt the effectiveness of easily overlooked Google ads.

And still, VW, a single carmaker in a single company, is larger than the
overvalued internet giant of Google that controls advertising in all but a
handful of countries.

Google is a tiny player in the rest of the world economy.

