
The History of Computer RPGs - podiki
https://crpgbook.wordpress.com/2017/04/10/update-17-the-final-preview/
======
dzdt
If you are interested in old computer role-playing games, you should check out
the CRPG addict's blog [1]. He has played (usually to completion) every CRPG
thru 1986 and every one that runs on DOS thru 1990. The reviews have great
humor. And he covers everything.

[1] [http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com](http://crpgaddict.blogspot.com)

~~~
Kurtz79
Thanks!

I used to follow it a few years ago, but for some reason it fell off my radar,
I imagine now there are tons more reviews than when I left it.

It inspired me to do a nostalgia-fueled replay of all Ultima games(1-8), a
couple of years ago.

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Mendenhall
Bums me out I can never remember name of first crpg I had played. It was early
80s on commadore 64 when you only had a tape deck. The only thing I remember
was going through dungeon and around level 3-7 of dungeon you could sit in a
chair that would randomly teleport you to someplace in the dungeon, sometimes
super deep. There were random chests around and no level restrictions. I
remember having a low level character but using teleport chair to find really
high level weapons then try to get back to the chair and hopefully randomly
teleport back to lower level. Ah the good ole days lol

~~~
thoth
Not sure it is the same game, but I played one my Apple //e in that era, named
Telengard
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telengard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telengard)).
I remember doing exactly as you describe: teleporting very deep and looting a
chest for an extremely powerful weapon, and hoping to teleport back so I could
rampage for a while. Good times. ;)

~~~
Mendenhall
Omg I think this is it!!! thank you so much, I love this forum. So crazy you
remembered same thing.

Edit..Yup this is for sure the game, I even notice you could program into the
game and that is what my cousin who gave it to me did in a school project.

You all made my day with helpful responses. Heartfelt thanks to you all!!

I am going to replay this game for sure because I remember it being very hard.

The author sadly passed away in 2014 I was going to email and say thanks.

------
Shivetya
To this day I am impressed with the game Starflight, the first sequel was also
amazing. What stood out about Starflight even more today to me than back then
was what they accomplished on two 360k diskettes.

From a great story, cool Easter eggs, to hundreds of unique worlds to explore.
One of the earliest sandbox games too, you didn't have to play it the same way
each time you started up a new game.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starflight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starflight)

~~~
GFischer
It was amazing, and definitely what they could do with such little resources
is breathtaking. One of the top games of my childhood.

I had the original box and manual, I hope I still have them.

What would be a modern equivalent? I guess the MMORPGs like EVE Online? Any
single player game with a similar open-ended gameplay + story?

------
scott_s
_Planned to also be later crowdfunded into a physical release, sold at cost
price._

There's a very good chance I would buy a copy. I already have several physical
copies of the books Jeremy Parish put out (pdfs:
[https://gumroad.com/gamespite](https://gumroad.com/gamespite), physical
books:
[https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&fie...](https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&field-
author=Jeremy+Parish&search-
alias=books&text=Jeremy+Parish&sort=relevancerank)). Felipe, since I saw
you're commenting here, Parish may be a good person to talk to
([https://twitter.com/gamespite](https://twitter.com/gamespite)) for advice on
the physical publishing. This is also the sort of project he would be
interested in.

~~~
felipepepe
Thanks for the tip. The problem is that Parish publish his books through
Amazon's CreateSpace, which is powerful but extremely expensive... printing
the CRPG Book in color through it would cost more than $60 per unit. :/

I would love to do something like the Bitmap Books (
[https://www.bitmapbooks.co.uk/collections/all](https://www.bitmapbooks.co.uk/collections/all)
), which have great quality and a decent price, all funded via Kickstarter.

~~~
scott_s
Parish has used several different options over the years, so I still think
it's worth asking his experience. (When I bought his books, some of it was
through Blurb:
[http://www.blurb.com/search/site_search?search=jeremy+parish](http://www.blurb.com/search/site_search?search=jeremy+parish))

Speaking for myself, I think $60 is reasonable for a 450 page, full color book
about a niche subject. Bitmap Books does look like a good option, and wow,
that book on Super Famicom box art is tempting...

~~~
njharman
+1 to $60 being totally reasonable (cheap even) price for 450 page book in
color. I (and thousands of people) regularly pay $50-70 for pen and paper RPG
books with less page count. And I've paid much, much more than that for niche
art books.

~~~
felipepepe
Thanks, but it's a last resort. That wouldn't even require a crowdfunding
campaign, I just upload the files and that's it.

Since I've spent over 4 years now on this, why not dream higher? I think it's
worthy to try to make something cooler, of higher quality and cheaper for
everyone.

The book doesn't even have a cover yet, so I might hire an amazing artist as
stretch goal or something like that. :)

~~~
MrZeus
Could I mention the legendary artist Mark Ferrari for your consideration?

[http://markferrari.com/art/digital-
concepts/](http://markferrari.com/art/digital-concepts/)

(I know there are hundreds of others, I'm hoping people might reply and
compile a favourites list for you ^_^)

~~~
felipepepe
I actually already talked with Toni Bratincevic to get an idea of how such job
would work. He's my #1 choice. :)

------
podiki
There's also albums on Flickr with 18,000+ images from the games:
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/crpgbook/albums](https://www.flickr.com/photos/crpgbook/albums)

------
bencollier49
Where is Moraff's World?!? How could they leave that out? A complete classic,
with an open world and loads of depth, well before anything like that was
standard.

~~~
douche
Spent so many hours with the version I had on one of those cheap shareware
bundle CDs. I'll never forget the bizarre, cheesy sprites, like the Hawaiian
shirt zombies[1], or, really, any of them[2]. Fun game.

[1] [https://emptysqua.re/blog/moraffs-world/moraff-
monsters.png](https://emptysqua.re/blog/moraffs-world/moraff-monsters.png)

[2]
[https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/13/134049/1...](https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/13/134049/1837538-title_screen.gif)

~~~
bencollier49
Likewise. Used to run it on a Hercules monitor on an 8088. Amazing. It
supported so many different graphics modes.

------
csours
So many memories here. So many of these games felt so real to me, from _Moria_
to _Exile: Escape from the Pit_ to _Daggerfall_

I don't know if I've just internalized all of the possible RPG tropes or what,
but nothing feels like that anymore.

~~~
erikb
> nothing feels like that anymore

This is an experience everybody has at some point. The reason is not that the
world changed, but that you changed. Having more experience about life means
being less excited. I guarantee, that nowaday's youth has the same excited
experience about one RPG (e.g., maybe the current Zelda that was just
released) that you had back in the day.

Welcome at the old guys table. :-)

~~~
Keyframe
Fellow old guys, give new Zelda a spin. You won't regret it!

~~~
talmand
I played the first Zelda as a kid. I'm playing the latest Zelda as an adult
that has three children. I'm talking over thirty years of video game playing.

It is one of the best games I have ever played.

~~~
Keyframe
I'm 36 now and playing BotW evokes same feeling when I've played OoT. Maybe
even the first Zelda and Mystic Quest. Just maybe. It's that good.

------
lowlevel
I also found this fascinating. I never really saw CRPG being used as an
acronym however I have always and always will specify "computer based role
playing game" where appropriate vs cerebral role playing games involving
books, cards or thoughts/conversations.

There are some errors in the text here and there but hopefully we can all nit
pick it to death before the hard cover version goes to print.

~~~
mcv
> I never really saw CRPG being used as an acronym

I've always called them CRPGs, to distinguish them from "real" RPGs that
involve actual roleplaying, imagination, improvisation and other elements that
computers can't really handle. For a roleplayer, a CRPG is a bit of a crutch
that can scratch the itch until you can get some friends around the table
again.

Though perhaps that doesn't quite do CRPGs justice. There are some excellent
ones exploring some really interesting subjects in a way you rarely get to do
at the table.

~~~
graphitezepp
It's certainly a worthwhile distinction. Especially in the modern day where
'rpg' elements have been tacked on to everything. Not a lot of actual role
playing in something like Mass Effect.

~~~
ashark
Way more role-playing potential in Mass Effect than, say, your typical JRPG.
And than most of the story's-barely-there stat-bashing dungeon crawlers,
Western or Eastern. For that matter there's more in Dishonored, and your
character doesn't even speak in that one. Of all the games under the RPG tent
I'd say Mass Effect is well in the top half as far as having _role playing_ in
it, though it's admittedly a pretty low bar.

------
ThePadawan
Up until now, I was under the impression that CRPG stood for "Classic RPG" (as
opposed to J(apanese) RPG, Action RPG or MMORPG).

Am I alone in this? If not, this seems a topic worth discussing.

~~~
mwfunk
The term was a lot more common in the '80s and '90s. Back then, certainly in
the '80s, "RPG" meant tabletop RPGs. Hence, "CRPG" (computer RPG) was needed
as a separate term.

Also, in the '80s, computer RPGs were much more directly inspired by tabletop
RPGs. Now video game RPGs are their own genre(s), mostly disconnected from the
pen and paper games that inspired the first few generations of video games.

~~~
erikb
I grew up with Fallout 1/2 and Diablo 2. I guess late 90s. Computer RPGs were
so common in my circles, that we actually needed a distinct word for tabletop
RPGs (we called them "Pen&Paper"). RPG was always the word for computer RPGs.
Only through recent new connections to the "Pen&Paper" world I heard people
say "cRPG", around 2015-16.

So I guess it's more about where you are starting from than the time. Even
nowadays people use the term "cRPG" and even nowadays people use the term
"RPG" to mean different things.

~~~
mwfunk
That makes sense. Heck, maybe the RPG vs. CRPG distinction was more '80s
terminology. RPGs were a pretty well-established genre in computer and console
games by the late '90s.

------
tribby
it's a shame clan lord[1] from delta tao software is omitted, although I
understand you can't document them all. its historical significance comes from
being the first graphical MMORPG for mac, having started in 1994. it still
runs to this day, and because there's no exp cap there are people who have
been playing the same characters for 20 years. the hand-drawn sprites hold up
surprisingly well (even if the game only moves at 4fps), the world is massive,
and its stories and history are rich. some puzzles/quests remain unsolved
after all this time.

1\.
[https://www.deltatao.com/clanlord/screenshots.html](https://www.deltatao.com/clanlord/screenshots.html)

~~~
BugsJustFindMe
It does look like there just may be no Mac exclusive titles documented in the
book. No TaskMaker or Escape Velocity either.

------
Omnius
Where does he find the games? I would love to do this i was just a small kid
in the 80's and remember these games fondly. Take a swing at them knows seems
appealing. How do you even go about getting the games and how do you emulate
the environments correctly, my current laptop is missing the turbo button :)

------
felixgallo
Unfortunate that it starts with the PC era, rather than starting from the
earliest computer RPGs. Avatar and Oubliette (and their predecessors and
cousins) on PLATO were the foundation on which the Wizardry empire was built;
from what I can recall there were even successful lawsuits. A critical part of
RPG history.

~~~
felipepepe
The book is still being written. There will an introductory article on the
PLATO RPGs, as well as on the first MUDs and MMORPGs.

------
solson
Temple of Apshai is big omission from this list:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Apshai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Apshai)

------
Paul_S
That is fantastically comprehensive. I kept thinking "what about..." and then
finding it a few pages later. I'm really impressed. I actually found games
I've never heard of. OK, Elona is probably the least well-known cult niche
break out success (throw in some more oxymorons into the mix) and everyone's
heard of it but it never gets a write-up. And obviously games like the Rance
series get ignored as well. On the other hand Undertale and Dwarf Fortress is
stretching the term a little bit.

Fantastic work. Needs bigger screenshots.

------
QSIITurbo
Great stuff. You might want to consider adding Borderlands 2 into your list.
It's basically Diablo 3 from the scifi first person (shooter) view. In
addition to being refreshingly humorous, it has the one and only bad guy I've
ever found realistic among the zillions of CRPG's I've played. There are other
games in the series (1 and TPS) but they're not as good.

------
ivan_ah
The book layout and graphics are outstanding. Very dense informationally, but
remains readable.

Does anyone know what software was used for the book layout?

~~~
felipepepe
Adobe InDesign. :)

------
saithir
Interesting (especially all the hidden gems) and nice to see things like
Sengoku Rance included as well.

Why does it has to be a pdf though. :s

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
They say they plan to crowdfund a physical release at cost price.

They're going to have my gold pieces for sure!

~~~
saithir
I was expecting a more proper ebook format rather than physical goods. I might
be tempted though, depending on price + shipping.

------
ekianjo
Glad to see Moonstone mentioned. A fantastic game, even if it does not really
fit purely into the CRPG genre.

------
nomercy400
Amazing collection, it reads very well, and contains many of the games I have
played. Good memories. The current state of most games, such as unofficial
patches, mods and overhauls, is also very useful and makes me want to play
some of the games again.

------
LordKano
I was struck by the lack of "Below The Root", that was the game that made me a
computer gamer.

Now that I think of it, maybe it was more of an Adventure game than a true RPG
but it still was influential to me.

------
jonnysmith1981
I would expect (hope) the Shining Force series, including Shining In The
Darkness, to make the final cut.

~~~
Narishma
Aren't those console JRPGs?

~~~
douche
They were on console, and were from Japan, but Shining Force and Shining Force
II (I haven't played the rest) are not really JRPGs, in the classical sense.
The turn-based tactical combat is more like XCOM or Fallout than the typical
Final Fantasy/Square/Pokemon style.

------
fsiefken
There seems to be an omission. Zelda is discussed, but not the later releases
like The Wind Waker or the recent Breath of the Wild which dwarves Skyrim.
[http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/1198803-legend-
zeld...](http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/1198803-legend-zelda-breath-
wilds-map-size-dwarfs-skyrim)

~~~
Narishma
Zelda games are generally not considered RPGs.

------
akagetsu01
I needed this in my life and I didn't even know <3

~~~
podiki
Such amazing work, I can't wait to pour over it in detail, glad to hear you
like it as well! I saw it on Rock, Paper, Shotgun [1] and thought there might
be some people here that would appreciate it.

[1] [https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/04/17/the-rpg-
scrollba...](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/04/17/the-rpg-scrollbars-
the-crpg-book-project/)

------
gravypod
IT looke like there are many notable 80s titles left out. One that comes to
mind off the bat is Elite.

Later coverage looks better.

~~~
myrandomcomment
Elite is not an CRPG as defined by the author.

[http://crpgaddict.blogspot.jp/p/blog-
page.html](http://crpgaddict.blogspot.jp/p/blog-page.html)

~~~
dahauns
While I agree with the sentiment, the CRPGAddict is not the author of this
book.

~~~
myrandomcomment
Oops. That what I get for reading and replying on the train. Thank you. Sorry
about that.

------
greggman
sooooo much missing.

where are Stuart Smith's games like Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves. A 17 player
local multiplayer RPG for Atari 800 or his Adventure Gane Construction Set
released by EA for all platforms back then?

where are all the SSI and Epyx games like Temple of Apshai?

Interplay games like Bard's Tale ...

Heck, if it's "history" how about the crpgs on the Plato system in the
mid-70s?

maybe rename the book "so and so's random book of crpgs"? or maybe more catchy
"Two 20 sided die rolls of CRPGs" ;)

~~~
jhbadger
Well, that gets philosophical in regard to what is a CRPG versus an adventure
game. I personally would consider Stuart Smith's games like Ali Baba, Return
of Heracles etc. to be adventure games, not CRPGs. And Stuart seemed to agree
given that he called his construction kit the "Adventure Game Construction
Kit" after all.

