
Update On The HydraDock Project Status - bdcravens
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kickshark/hydradock-11-port-usb-c-dock-for-apple-macbook/posts/1694375
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makmanalp
> Due to some completely unexplainable incompetence by our China factory, we
> are stuck, and have to pause everything until we can arrange new money to
> move forward.

This happens so often here that it's becoming a meme. I think "has actually
manufactured a real product in China before and knows the realities of the
situation and how to manage the process" should be a requirement for a
hardware kickstarter.

~~~
stuff4ben
shame they can't manufacture in the US.

~~~
knowaveragejoe
They could, but not at the price point they're trying to meet.

~~~
djsumdog
Probably not even at a higher price. There aren't a lot of high volume
fabrication shops in the US.

~~~
Twirrim
The thing is, you're not even talking high volume at this stage. It's still
relatively small production runs. They could have done their earlier products
through a US based fabrication shop to get the cash flowing, then switched to
a Chinese one once they'd got a steady income and could work through these
hassles.

~~~
mbreese
Given all of the Chinese electronics manufacturing, would the required
components even be available in the US? I assume many if not all of the
individual components would also be made in China... so maybe it's just more
convenient (in addition to cheaper) to have the entire product made there?

------
djsumdog
So within your own country, you can take a production company to court if they
fail to deliver on their contract. In the US, something of this price might
even get the FTC involved. They production company could go bankrupt, and then
you're still in the hole and your customers are in the hole, but at least
there is some legal recourse that's reasonably accessible. You may also be
able to get money to refund people depending on their current debts and the
bankrupts process.

So if you outsource to China, what types of recourse or legal options are
there. It sounds like they have a rep in China. What, if anything, can they
do?

~~~
ivraatiems
I think it would depend on who had more clout with the local government.
That's almost always gonna be the local company, not the foreign one. Even
very large foreign companies are crapped on by Chinese partners now and then,
because there just aren't going to be repercussions if the CEO's brother's
also the local party man.

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danellis
For anyone looking for a Macbook dock, OWC has a nice product that has
actually shipped already (I have one myself):
[https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/usb-c/owc/usb-c-
dock](https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/usb-c/owc/usb-c-dock)

(And unlike the Kickstarter's claim of Apple-like elegance, this one actually
matches the Macbook colors, rather than being the cheaper-looking white
plastic.)

~~~
jajern
I like how in one of the demo videos a guy is plugging his macbook into the
hydradock, but he has a thunderbolt apple monitor and all apple wireless
accessories. So, this guy spent $1000+ on apple hardware that plugs into his
macbook with one cable but instead he's going to use this dock.

~~~
bdcravens
Even with that dock, the Thunderbolt display is still incompatible.

------
digerata
Reminds me of ZenDock, another failed kickstarter laptop dock.

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coleflournoy/zendock-
th...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coleflournoy/zendock-the-best-
dock-for-your-macbook?ref=user_menu)

Sounds like HydraDock might be handling it better than Cole Flournoy did,
however.

~~~
goddamnsteve
I loved what ZenDock stood for, but again, was a huge letdown.

------
pfarnsworth
Exactly why I will never, ever, ever buy from Kickstarter. Until there's a
shipping product, I won't buy it at all. The pre-order age is dead, and this
is a perfect example of this. Even if these people are honest, manufacturing
from China is a skillset that is expensive and requires a lot of experience
and boots on the ground.

~~~
sschueller
But kickstarter is not a pre-order store! You are helping people to get
started and in return may receive a version of the product you helped create.

~~~
pfarnsworth
That's what kickstarter's legal page may say to cover their ass. But that's
not the reality, and it's definitely not the expectations of the "donors".

~~~
brainfire
This is directly due to the (in my opinion unethical) actions of established
companies (like Pebble) treating it like a trendy preorder store. Kickstarter
themselves have been clear on this since launch.

~~~
FireBeyond
Eh. Kickstarter has happily, on multiple times, allowed, even promoted
projects that are BLATANTLY against their terms of service:

\- the infamous "Buy my child a laptop and send her to a coding camp" campaign
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5434721](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5434721))

There's the TOS violations: "fund my life" \- buying her daughter a laptop
(camp provides IT resources" "fund tuition" \- educational camp, pretty self-
explanatory And then the rest of the tastelessness - I'm fairly certain a nine
year old isn't at all involved in beer cozies saying "I drink like a girl,
keep up!" etc.

\- The Bike Index ([http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1073266317/the-bike-
inde...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1073266317/the-bike-index-lets-
stop-bike-theft-together))

1\. It's a violation of "Kickstarter cannot be used to fund e-commerce,
business, and social networking websites or apps." 2\. This is a website,
right? Then why: "Travel to the eleven biggest bike cities in the United
States to meet with shop owners and give them the ability to register bikes
for free (the cities: NYC, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Philadelphia,
Madison, Tucson, Austin, Denver, D.C., and Minneapolis)." (Awesome, let's use
Kickstarter to pay for me/us to take a trip through the US "to meet with bike
shop owners and give them a chance to use the website"...) 3\. "Offer region
specific recommendations for reporting bike theft to the police." \- so an
extended goal of this site is to "recommend how to report to the police,
customized for regions"?!? 4\. Some stickers. 5\. Oh, and you have to pay to
register with the Index.

So yeah, let's not place too much stock in Kickstarter's "what we say, what we
do, two different things, ignore that as we take our cut".

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StefanKarpinski
This seems like an opportunity for Kickstarter to provide leverage: one
project doesn't have any, but if Kickstarter acted as an intermediary for
hardware contracting, they could help prevent and mediate situations like
this, making the whole process much more trustworthy.

~~~
jacques_chester
They could, but it'd be an expensive choice. They'd need to stump up for
inhouse supply chain experts and a bunch of insurance (production, shipping,
lawsuits lawsuits lawsuits).

The whole model for Kickstarter is to push all the risk out to the fringes and
collect a percentage. They've already become a verb. Adding high overheads and
installing a lawsuit magnet doesn't see like the most effective decision.

~~~
ubercore
I wonder if there's room for an Ebay/Paypal-esque situation. A third party
that focuses on _just_ becoming that lawsuit magnet and using expertise to
help shepherd projects through production issues like this.

Not easy for sure, but maybe possible if focused enough?

~~~
jacques_chester
Something like this exists in the movie industry -- completion
bonds/guarantees.

Specialist insurance companies take a budget percentage. In exchange they
guarantee that a film, once financed, _will_ be driven through production.

To ensure success they get intimate powers of scrutiny and review. In extreme
scenarios they can take over a production entirely. Fire the director, change
the script, the works.

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sschueller
What I don't understand is people in the comments on kickstarter still asking
for their money back even though it was made clear from the start that
kickstarter is not a store.

The risk should be clear by now!

~~~
wmf
You can't fix human nature with disclaimers. Also, some of these people may be
first-time suckers.

