
Children born to spies in Canada should not be handed citizenship, says Ottawa - walterbell
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spies-russia-citizenship-canada-1.4781177
======
bmcusick
What is a spy?

They're not a legal immigrant, because they lied on their immigration papers,
making their immigration invalid.

If they're an illegal immigrant, their children would be granted citizenship.

If they're a diplomat, their children would not be granted citizenship. The
child of the Russian Ambassador does not become a Canadian citizen even if
born and raised in Toronto.

I think the government's argument that they're more like a diplomat (an agent
of a foreign country) than an undocumented resident (e.g., someone who's
entered the country of their own volition for work) is pretty sound.

~~~
dogma1138
A spy is usually defined as any agent of a foreign state that was not
registered, that is the difference between a spy and a diplomat.

That’s what often they get you on rather than espionage which is harder to
prove.

------
xenadu02
Technically the government might have a point.

From a human perspective: so what? They are victims of their parents, the only
life they know is Canadian. It seems morally wrong to deny them.

This seems like one of those easy cases: rule they aren’t citizens but grant
them citizenship under humanitarian grounds anyway.

------
negadave
Are kids born to spies spies themselves? Is ideology genetic? I know one
thing, they'll live a lifetime of surveillance if they stay, and how will
society treat them knowing their background?

~~~
rgbrenner
That's not the governments argument. Canada does not grant citizenship to
children born to foreign diplomats working in Canada. The argument is that
since spies are working for a foreign government, their children also do not
qualify for citizenship.

That's a very clear, easy to understand rule. It makes perfect sense. The only
question is if a rule that applies to foreign diplomats can also apply to
spies.

~~~
mehrdadn
I'd presume if they know you're a spy then you're failing at spying, right?
But if you don't already know that they know (otherwise you probably wouldn't
stick around?) then your poor kid now has no idea if he's a citizen or not. So
this would mean that you could have a kid that grows up thinking he's a
citizen, and being treated as he is, but who suddenly finds out he's not. That
would suck for the kid. Do they imagine that will work out somehow?

~~~
rgbrenner
The kid does have citizenship... of the parents country. The brothers in the
article are Russian citizens.

The parents knew 100% who they were working for. Maybe they shouldn't lie to
their children?

It's sort of like Madoff stealing billions and his children growing up
thinking they were rich.. and then one day, the government comes and takes all
the money away and imprisons the thief. And then someone asks, but shouldn't
these children still be rich? Why should they live in poverty when they grew
up their entire lives thinking they were billionaires?

~~~
anigbrowl
Sorry, if you're inflicting problems on the kids then blaming the parents
isn't a valid defense. It's distinctly different from a property interest.

------
hartator
Canada wants to be one of the most progressive country in the world, making
fun of us in the US, while denying basic soil rights. /irony

~~~
cncrnd
Soil rights are not a basic human right...

In many countries it is nearly impossible to get citizenship without having
citizen parents.

I'm not sure why you would want to give the children of those committing
treason citizenship, it could be a future risk if said children enter the same
path.

~~~
mirimir
> ... those committing treason ...

Foreign agents who aren't citizens aren't committing treason. That is, unless
they defect.

~~~
cncrnd
Actually, you don't have to be a citizen to commit treason. There is a notion
of 'temporary allegiance' which allows non citizens to be prosecuted for
treason.

