
A man who 'discovered' 780 Indian languages - tmbsundar
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-41718082
======
beat
This reminded me of a video I saw once, many years ago. It was told by the
last speaker of a language - from a tribe in El Salvador, iirc (Central
America, for sure). Most of his tribe had been wiped out during civil war. He
and his parents were the last living speakers of their language. When his
parents died, he was the last. The video was a long, tearful poem, telling the
story of his people and their destruction. Of course, no one could understand
a word of it but him, but the emotion was unmistakable.

~~~
Alex3917
It's interesting that the same technologies we use to preserve language
(audio/film/text) are also largely the reason for their destruction. If you
just have two people talking with each other in the woods there aren't any
economies of scale, no 'best' version of Wikipedia, no Hollywood movies to
watch, etc.

While not related to language, except for one episode, NPR's archive of lost &
found sound is also worth checking out: [http://www.npr.org/sections/lost-
found-sound/archive?date=9-...](http://www.npr.org/sections/lost-found-
sound/archive?date=9-30-2008)

~~~
cortesoft
I don't know, languages have been dying out for a lot longer than those
technologies have been around. Languages die when the cultures who speak them
either get assimilated or eradicated; I am not sure what technology has to do
with that?

~~~
boxy310
Before the printing press, there was dramatic variation in regional dialects
of European nations. After the printing press, standardization and state
centralization have been grinding these regional dialects into the ground.
Even traditional regional languages like Irish or Scots Gaelic are going
extinct.

~~~
beat
I live in a city with tens of thousands of east African immigrants (mostly
Somali). It's fascinating to me, to hear the difference between how the adult
Somalis speak, and how their children speak. The teenagers, having grown up
here, speak in perfect, accent-free English. Will their children even speak
Somali at all?

(As an aside, I totally love my little window into Somali teenage girl
culture, just from riding the train and sharing a neighborhood with them.
Their fashions are incredible, and they're _so_ energetic and happy. Somali
teenage boys, on the other hand, are just as glum and faux-cool as teenage
boys everywhere.)

~~~
gowld
> perfect, accent-free English.

This is a myth. You mean they speak your local accent of English.

> (As an aside, I totally love my little window into Somali teenage girl
> culture, just from riding the train and sharing a neighborhood with them.
> Their fashions are incredible, and they're so energetic and happy. Somali
> teenage boys, on the other hand, are just as glum and faux-cool as teenage
> boys everywhere.)

Please don't be racist. Appreciate people without making convoluted
assumptions about how their race and gender causes their behavior

~~~
khedoros1
> This is a myth. You mean they speak your local accent of English.

It's the most natural way that comes to mind to say that they sound like the
other local native speakers.

> Please don't be racist.

I don't see racism here. I see broad commentary about a local subculture.

------
pavanred
On a slightly related topic, India has a vast and rich set of languages and
millions of people that speak/read/write these languages. With daily
newspapers, tabloids, literature etc, I presume there is a (potential) huge
corpus of rich data for each language too. And, I just read yesterday that
India just surpassed US to become the second biggest mobile phone market. Then
why is there not more of NLP work/products on Indian languages? There's a
market for it, a huge market, isn't it?

~~~
axiom92
> On a slightly related topic, India has a vast and rich set of languages and
> millions of people that speak/read/write these languages.

My landlady needs to know this. She still thinks we all speak "Indian".

~~~
afghanPower
Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Indians do understand "urdu", no?

~~~
sumedh
Yes because most Indians can speak Hindi(Urdu is similar to Hindi). Hindi is
the second or third language for many non native Hindi speakers.

~~~
wizardofmysore
Around 100+ million of 1.2 billion don't speak Hindi.

~~~
Manishearth
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers_in_India)

No, by the 2001 census it's about 50% of Indians who do not speak Hindi.

I don't see a reason for this fraction to have changed significantly.

------
taherchhabra
This is the reason I am teaching my mother tongue to my kids first, where
every parents in my area wants their children to speak English first and that
too in American accent. I understand that it's a global language but some
cultural things are really difficult to pass on to your kids without your
mother tongue

------
baali
One more related link to the same story, Two episode podcast about languages
in India. It talks about first survey conducted during British Raj and then
Ganesh Devy ji's people's linguastic survey of India:
[https://soundcloud.com/theintersection/31-mission-
impossible...](https://soundcloud.com/theintersection/31-mission-impossible-
surveying-indian-languages-and-dialects)

------
aaron695
> He discovered that some 16 languages spoken in the Himalayan state of
> Himachal Pradesh have 200 words for snow alone

A know urban legend often applied to Inuits.

> Dr Devy, an untrained linguist

But we'll still call him doctor.

I'll guess he's a doctor in English? and they are there to entertain as he's
done. (Obviously doctors in English can do other important things as well)

I don't know.... the BBC when they do these stories... intelligent people know
they are not true buuuut then what does one think when they report on Syria.

Are stories like these symptoms and show we also should also take stories on
Syria very very carefully or are they cancerous and encourage bad reporting
and bad thinking? Are stories on Syria the same, just entertainment anyway and
their accuracy for the masses is on equal importance?

I guess for me a source of truth is important and I would have though many on
HN would want to seek the truth, but perhaps not so much.

[edit] There is also a interesting story here, I assume it's not a lie and the
doctor believes what he's doing is true.... but I can't be sure from all the
other inaccuracies.... but at face value he's done something really
interesting that is BBC worthy. It just needs better framing.

------
desi_ninja
The article doesn't mention colonization as one of thr factors of dying
languages because BBC.

~~~
tmpnam
The article touches on it, but it's a former threat.

Hindu nationalism, on the other hand, is a current threat, desi_ninja.

~~~
srean
> Hindu nationalism, on the other hand, is a current threat, desi_ninja.

Wholly agreed, I would add a nuance that Hindu nationalism as pushed by the
current govt is. Their view is that the only Hindu religious way to be a
practicing Hindu is the way it is practiced in a particular region in India,
even the most devout practicing Hindu from the east (from a generation and
further ago) wouldn't have heard/practiced about dandia, dhanteras, karva-
chauth. There are regions where devout Hindus would have beef and not feel
that they are flouting norms of Hinduism. The only right way to speak/write is
in a specific regional language of India. A lot of governmental machinery --
executive and legal -- is being expended to achieve this monoculture.

------
newyankee
Happy to see BBC highlight something positive about India for a change instead
of rape stories

~~~
ajeet_dhaliwal
They’ll probably add a couple of rapes tomorrow to make up for it.

------
baali
I had a chance to visit one of academy he helped establish, adivasi
academy(their domain name has expired), tejgarh, vadodra. I really liked how
he played the role of catalyst in helping local people recognize their own
culture and preserve it. [Edit]: My bad for linking to the infested URL,
didn't realize it.

~~~
anotheryou
That link looks very virus infested, beware.

probably ransomware: [https://www.2-spyware.com/remove-the-arialtext-font-was-
not-...](https://www.2-spyware.com/remove-the-arialtext-font-was-not-found-
ads.html)

It's some js file that loads exe files. How would they get executed than?
Another prompt to manually do so?

edit: thanks for removing the link :)

~~~
astura
It's probably a hijacked account too, that account has legitimate comments but
was dormant until today.

~~~
anotheryou
I doubt that, it's quality content apart from the link :)

probably just a never updated, but originally legit wordpress site.

~~~
baali
I find this ironical that the technology(in this particular case their site)
which is considered as a savior for these languages and dialects, by archiving
them, indexing them, can get itself rendered as something to stay away from
instead of making this resource accessible.

------
1024core
The BBC has to get an anti-Modi (Prime Minister of India) jab in: _" He
worries about the ruling Hindu nationalist BJP's efforts to impose Hindi all
over India, which he calls a "direct attack on our linguistic plurality". "_

Various governments in Delhi, throughout history, have toyed with the idea of
making Hindi the national language. It hasn't happened yet, and won't happen.
But, of course, the BBC would like you to believe that Modi thought of it
first.

~~~
nonamechicken
I am from Kerala (South India). Hindi imposition never bothered me until the
last 2 years. I don't know if it's media's effect, but it is a really valid
concern for me. Considering that Kerala exists more or less thanks to money
from Gulf countries and little help from the center, I won't mind a separation
either.

~~~
1024core
It is the media. No one bothers to remember the anti-Hindi riots during the
Congress rule. Things were much, much worse then.

------
ravirajx7
One of the main reason behind the 'developing' state of India even after 70
years of independence is its differences which Indians still have in their
mind. The language barrier is the only barrier which is proving to be
resistance let alone culture prevention and all that. Languages are just a
form of communication between people and people should accept it. People
should learn languages like English(Which have vast amount of resources
available).As the growing trends suggest India will be the most populated
country after 2020 and it will have around 70% of the citizens who will be
youngsters. Believe it or not but sooner or later English will dominate(though
i believe it's still dominating to bridge the gap between south and north
india). In india you can't surf internet properly if you don't have any clue
about English and india do have maximum number of smartphone users around the
world and that will ofcourse help remove some sort of language barrier between
people.

Also Modi do promote Hindi(though his mother tongue is gujarati) but I believe
he does so because he finds himself more proficent orator in the language.

China is one more country which is preserving its culture by speaking chinese
and i don't think anyone should stop someone to do so.Though it would be
better if there is one unique language with which people should feel unity
among themselves.

~~~
jlg23
Given that English is already fragmenting (just read a newspaper from Guyana)
and with the example of _the_ Arab language (watch an Egyptian try talking
with a Moroccan - bring popcorn): I am not sure your advice is a good one.
English, like every other language, limits what you can say to what can be
expressed in it.

From personal experience, I'd rather recommend to dabble in as many languages
as possible: Each new language so far introduced new concepts (of seeing the
world, if you will) and forced me to break through the invisible barriers
erected by the language I was raised with.

And, finally, if we need a "world language", can we please agree on French? I
think it is so much more pleasant to the ear than English... and it saves
those who already speak it from having to read "rsvp, please" ever again ;)

~~~
asdfaefasdf
>just read a newspaper from Guyana

I just glanced as 5 online papers, and one scanned tabloid-style paper.

I still have no idea what you are talking about. What am I supposed to be
detecting in the writing here?

edit: I guess I found one or two slight different ways of expressing things,
like starting a sentence with "Said he:", but, really it's fairly minor.

