
Uber engineering layoffs expected tomorrow - sbuccini
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/uber-managers-asked-for-pay-cut-to-save-jobs-the-ceo-said-no
======
dang
This is an announcement of an announcement, which is off topic:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22announcement%20of%20an%20announcement%22&sort=byDate&type=comment).
On HN there's no harm in waiting:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20%22no%20harm%20in%20waiting%22&sort=byDate&type=comment)

Edit: actually, the fault here seems to be that the submitter rewrote the
title in an editorializing way, which is against the site rules:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
See
[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20editorializ&sort=byDate&type=comment)
for plenty of past explanation.

Edit 2: the article isn't buried for that reason but because of the hard
paywall. See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23214650](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23214650)

~~~
almost_usual
Thanks for the transparency, was wondering why this fell off the front page so
quickly.

~~~
dang
Actually that is for a different reason: the article is hard-paywalled (see
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)).
If the article had been readable with a paywall workaround, I'd have fixed the
title rather than burying the submission.

I sent an email to The Information asking if they'd unlock this one for HN
readers:
[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20information%20unlock&sort=byDate&type=comment).
They do that sometimes. If they do, and it isn't too late, we'll unbury the
submission.

------
jennyyang
The linked article has a really bad title. There was another article I think
by The Information as well that said that Uber was planning 800 layoffs for
engineers, which would still bring them over 3000 engineers. That seems quite
high for a company whose main revenue has been catastrophically impacted
globally.

Asking employees to take a pay cut is always a bad idea. Having gone through
the dotcom bust, I can tell you that paycuts across the board will demotivate
employees, even if they keep their jobs. As soon as this pandemic is over,
they will flee to another company willing to pay them more.

The best way to handle crises like this, or the dotcom bust, or the next
recession, is to cut deeply once. Too many times you get into situations where
you want to do the least amount of damage and you don't have the courage to
make the cuts you need. And then you end up going through multiple cuts over
and over again, which paralyzes the company. Cut deeply, and preserve the cash
bonuses and promotion cycles for the ones who remain. Show that you will take
care of the employees laid off with generous severance packages, and then you
will take care of the employees that stay, and this will cement loyalty.

~~~
toomuchtodo
The article also says engineering is moving overseas. The Uber Engineering era
is over. Cutting deep vs pay cuts is moot, any talented engineer will be
headed to greener pastures.

“Uber by McKinsey” [1]

[1] [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-
mckins...](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/how-mckinsey-
destroyed-middle-class/605878/)

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
Totally, totally agree with this. I have a ton of respect for Dara
Khosrowshahi, but if I were a good engineer, I would get out. The second the
"we're going to move engineering overseas to save money" line comes out, the
bean counters won. I'm not even going to argue one way or the other if this is
good or bad for the company, but after having been through it before it is
DEFINITELY bad for the engineering team. I wouldn't make it an emergency to
get out in the current market but I would definitely leave as soon as I could.

~~~
theredbox
If they can do it and succeed the Valley is in serious trouble and it's the
same if they fail.

------
jarym
I don't live in the Valley but I have been wondering how engineers are going
to cope when the supply-demand ratio changes in favour of employers. With the
spate of SV layoffs I think we are about to head into challenging times.

Now is the time to:-

\- Get your resume up-to-date

\- Keep on top of friends/ex-colleagues who are at other companies still
hiring

\- Be ready (to move out of state, start your own gig, etc.)

~~~
gfodor
Why do you think the demand for programmers is going to decrease?

~~~
casefields
It's the supply you need to worry. When Gates and his ilk talk about an
engineer shortage, it's baloney. Same thing going on in the trucking industry.
There's a shortage of cheap engineers, which getting everyone and your mom
into coding, will help alleviate.

~~~
MattGaiser
> which getting everyone and your mom into coding

Are any of them any good?

------
samfisher83
That sucks for for a lot of people, but I don't think Uber/Lyft and many other
startup afford to pay what they have been paying. I can understand google,
facebook, apple etc. paying 300-500k salaries, but how can companies that
don't generate that kind of cash flow afford to do the same?

~~~
marcinzm
How can they not? Its supply and demand, Facebook and Google are setting the
price of supply for top engineers. If Uber and Lyft want those types of
engineers then they have to pay what the market demands. The assumption being
that five 100k engineers won't be able to solve complex problems as well as
one 500k engineer.

~~~
almost_usual
The 300k-500k range is risky RSU paper money outside of FAANG. Uber and Lyft
engineers know that now.

Pretend money met reality.

~~~
marcinzm
There's always risk that the stock price will drop due to a large scale
economic event. Lyft and Uber were hit particularly hard this time due to
their markets however in past recessions large tech companies weren't immune
except long term. As for layoffs, it's still only a small percentage of Lyft
and Uber engineers.

So not that risky all things considered and they did pay better than FAANG to
make up for that.

------
sbuccini
Here's the tweet by the article author discussing the timing of the layoffs:
[https://twitter.com/amir/status/1262019344692723713?s=21](https://twitter.com/amir/status/1262019344692723713?s=21)

------
m0llusk
The thing that gets me about this is how hard they had to work to hire those
people. Uber is infamous for hard interviews and not hiring people who turned
out to be superstars. The amount of value being flushed away is astonishing.

------
franze
Honestly, sucks for a lot of people. But an organization might be better off
if they cut the workforce if " effective work needed in the future" < "work
that can be done by workforce".

Work tends to always fill the available work capacity. Creating fake work that
holds up the whole organization. Wasting time and money. The first one is much
more important than the second.

I wrote about Overhiring in a much too long article here
[https://medium.com/@franz.enzenhofer/overhiring-b966a6ff383d...](https://medium.com/@franz.enzenhofer/overhiring-b966a6ff383d?source=friends_link&sk=2c4e3013c14534e1ec9a7f464da6be80)
(free to read medium link, must migrate away from them soon).

------
smcl
This is odd, isn't it standard Silicon Valley practice to do layoffs on a
Friday?

~~~
MattGaiser
Not if they fear something might leak first.

------
chosenbreed37
Not ideal for the people affected. Didn't read the entire article so not sure
what regions are affected. Hopefully they'll all get a good severance package.
Not too bad if you can add "Ex-Uber" to your list of titles..

------
swyx
i imagine a lot of Uber people are reading this. what an awful way to for them
to find out about impending layoffs... through a news scoop instead of their
own boss.

~~~
gundmc
As much as I hate citing blind for anything, the scuttlebutt on there the past
few days from Uber employees makes it sound like this was an open secret.

------
seibelj
I can't read the full article because of paywall. But the headline:

> _Uber Managers Asked for Pay Cut to Save Jobs. The CEO Said No_

In a small startup the "company-wide pay cuts" might fly for a while, if
everyone is truly motivated. But in a massive public company, where the
majority doesn't feel connected to leadership, this would never work. The star
employees would jump ship immediately if there weren't carve-outs for _some
people_ to avoid the cuts, which defeats the whole "we are in this together"
purpose of the company-wide pay cuts.

I'll say this straight - if I was a non-upper management employee and they
asked me to lose 25% of my income, I would leave ASAP.

~~~
marcinzm
Except the market is rather bad right now due to all the engineers looking for
jobs and all the companies with hiring freezes.

