
Ask HN: Hackers falling in love - rmundo
I quit my job around six months ago to start my own thing. Thought through a lot of possible distractions, technical/financial blocks, how much runway I had, etc. What wasn't anticipated was meeting someone and falling head over heels. Well, it's a few months later, and I feel a bit like waking up from a dream, but the project seems to be on the right track again, slowly building momentum. But I wonder if I could have done things differently, taken on a different attitude, basically done more in the past few months instead of behaving like a smitten puppy with all the time in the world.<p>The amount of focus and effort required in building a startup is incredible, but molecular chemistry is a tough adversary that doesn't fight fair. I'm curious how others have dealt with similar situations. Really love to read some war stories. Anyone?
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patio11
I was at dinner with a young lady who is now my girlfriend a few months ago,
and she asked me my plans for the next morning (Saturday). I told her that I
was going to be programming (it was during the last week or two prior to AR's
launch).

She said: Of course, after all you are a businessman. The job comes first.

I said: No. Not first. Not second, either, unless first is "all the things I
love in life."

I had a really really awful no-good bad day today, buisnesswise. It was easily
my worst ever on that score. But you know, in the greater scheme of things, if
the code fails and the disk dies and my database goes to meet the great
truncate in the sky, it will be very stressful for a few weeks, but I'll still
have my family, my friends, my girlfriend, my faith, my health, etc.

We've got a lot of pressure and responsibility running companies, but at the
end of thhe day, it is a job. You don't live to work, you work to live.

~~~
singular
Though I agree that love and family come above all else, of course, I do quite
dislike the whole 'it's just a job' attitude. Isn't the whole point of all
this that we do what we love and are passionate about?

I, for one, adore programming and would do it even if I was working as a bank
clerk.

Obviously there are awful days and truly crap aspects of running a business,
and even when coding, as things you love aren't a pure, crystalline edifice of
positivity but necessarily embody suffering within them. What counts is the
net meaningfulness of what you are doing, I think. And I believe when you are
doing something you love it pays infinitely more than it costs.

I say this with all respect, as you have achieved amazing things, and are
clearly a very competent (far better than me) hacker.

~~~
patio11
I love my job and find a great deal of meaning in the work, but there is no
level of Yay This Is The Best Job Ever that would make it more important than
those other things. (It _is_ my favorite job ever. This morning aside, I
practically bounce with enthusiasm about it. I am probably spoiled for doing
anything else. But if it were ripped away from me, I'd still be living a very
blessed life.)

I appreciate the praise, but folks overestimate my skill at hacking. I'm good
at it. There are a _lot_ of people better at it than me, including on HN.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
> folks overestimate my skill at hacking

Actually, I was under the impression that you were mainly known for BCC, which
doesn't look _that_ technically sophisticated (of course, it does require good
marketing/SEO/etc, and your candid posts and expertise are very welcome).

Care to brag a little?

~~~
tptacek
The Bingo Card Generator is not the part of BCC that is technically
sophisticated.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
Didn't you describe it as a "hello world project hooked up to a random number
generator" at some point? ;-)

I do recall that Patrick has written a supposedly-neat A/B testing framework -
is that what you're referring to?

[I'm not trolling, just honestly curious!]

~~~
tptacek
The bingo card generator is, in a sense, "hello world" hooked up to a random
number generator. The mechanisms built around that small piece of software to
demonstrate and provide value are what's sophisticated about BCC.

------
al3x
A good relationship will help you through the stress of a startup.

A bad one will make it much, much worse.

Either way, it's out of your control. If you're in love, you're in love. Make
the most of it.

------
Locke
This is not so much a possibility as an inevitability. Chances are you will
fall in love and it will disrupt your life whether you're starting up or doing
something else entirely. If you're fortunate, you're new significant other
will be a disruptive, yet motivating force. Moving you towards new heights
that you had not imagined. But, it's more likely to be a struggle to balance
your life's goals with your desire for this new person. Ultimately, you're
startup hopes might be replaced by new goals: a family and all that entails.

These things are not mutually exclusive. If you take an all or nothing view,
you're being naive. You can have some percentage of a solid relationship and
career (whether a startup or something else).

Life is messy. You'll have to decide if your relationship allows you enough
time to meet your personal goals and if that even matters. Only you can make
this determination.

As for me, I've been with my wife for over 10 years (most of it dating),
and... honestly? I think this relationship has had an adverse effect on my
goals. I, kind of, think I'd be much more rich and successful had I never met
my wife. On the other hand, when she's gone for a weekend, I always think,
"I'll get so much done when she's gone"... but, I often end up mired in the
"blahs" until she returns. And, honestly...

I think I've slowed down a lot as I've gotten older. I think back on things I
accomplished in 3 week coding marathons when I was in college and, while I
think I'm a better programmer now... well, I don't repeat those
accomplishments. I get more done in less time, but I'm not able to sustain a
marathon for multiple weeks. You may be different, or that might be part of
getting older.

Ultimately, I've been moderately successful (my business represents the bulk
of our income), but not wildly successful. I've come to think less is more...
and, I'm happy with that. I doubt I'd be happier single with a larger business
and more money.

But that's me...

~~~
fmkamchatka
> As for me, I've been with my wife for over 10 years (most of it dating),
> and... honestly? I think this relationship has had an adverse effect on my
> goals. I, kind of, think I'd be much more rich and successful had I never
> met my wife.

Define successful?

~~~
maushu
Probably "fame", "power" and "money". Notice how happiness is not there.

~~~
csomar
I think everyone has his own definition of the word. It'll depend on what
happiness to him is. If he's happy with his family, so happiness is having a
family.

------
Oblivia
As a woman who sees these young entrepreneurs in their twenties who routinely
put work before relationships, I am sometimes dismayed. I've wondered more
than once if their growth as men is being stunted. I suspect the stories of
sacrificing love on the altar of your startup and the pain involved in doing
so are just the stories you _don't_ hear.

New love and startups have about the same failure rate. No?

~~~
jayzee
Yes, but when you succeed your start-up takes you to the bank, while your wife
takes you to the cleaners ;)

~~~
dhs
This describes my experience quite well.

------
marcamillion
I am fairly young - 27, been married about 5 years, have two kids (both under
3) and am madly in love with my wife.

She doesn't work, and building my startup full-time is VERY stressful -
especially since I am bootstrapping, more or less.

As al3x pointed out though, a good mate can really make it MUCH better. I am
blessed to have a wife that is understanding and doesn't NEED to go shopping
and is high maintenance. Of course, every girl likes to be pampered - but she
is very laid back and supportive of what I am doing.

That makes the tough days when everybody else is suggesting that maybe I
should 'get a real job' much easier to handle and brush off.

I actually think it is easier to do a startup with an understanding wife,
because it adds balance and sanity to your life.

But if you get a bad match...yikes...run!

------
noonespecial
Falling in love is not one of life's distractions, its one of life's points.
Time well spent.

~~~
Rygu
True. I agree that it's one of life's points. However, oftentimes maintaining
a relationship can be distracting.

~~~
kareemm
If it's a relationship you want to be in, embrace the time away from work to
be present and enjoy being with someone you love.

If you find your relationship distracts you from work you want to be doing,
and find yourself wishing you were doing work and weren't with your
significant other, end the relationship.

------
dkarl
A muse helps so much.

I know I am supposed to be naturally deeply passionate about every single
thing in my life all the time -- that is apparently now standard for educated
people, nobody ever feels blasé about anything; feeling blasé is for poor
people and stupid people -- but (gasp, horror of horrors) passion is sometimes
hard to come by for me. Loving someone gives everything a special glow. Loving
someone makes my accomplishments meaningful. Loving someone gives me a reason
to rewrite something that was good enough the first time. Loving someone gives
me a reason to stay late doing something that will make an impact but won't
translate into pay or advancement.

A muse brings everything into sharp relief and makes everything feel more
vital and dramatic. It doesn't have anything to do with sex -- a muse can have
this effect even if you can't have her, and sleeping with girls you aren't so
excited about has the opposite effect, flattening everything out so that
accomplishment and slacking off feel exactly the same.

It may even work better in the short run when your muse is inaccessible. In
that case you have freedom to manage your side of the "relationship" without
worrying about the consequences for her. A muse who loves you back has staying
power, though.

~~~
rue
I think “blasé”, by definition, isn't for poor or stupid people, unless you're
using it ironically.

~~~
alnayyir
Nah, in this age of plenty that's about right.

------
impendia
You seem to regard having fallen head over heels as a bad thing.

Be grateful as hell. It doesn't happen to everybody.

------
ibejoeb
Sorry; I can't tell if you're just back down to earth and you're in a steady
relationship now or if it's over. In case it's the former, here's my two
cents. This comes from a place a little further down the road, and therefore
it is a little OT, but I'll mention it because I wish I would have heard the
same.

You might find that your professional success--perhaps your emotional
investment in your business--gives rise to turmoil in your relationship. Many
of us strive to get big, go public, get acquired, acquire others, merge, etc.
These events are typically wins, but the downsides are loss of control, loss
of interest, and perhaps even a bit of depression as a result.

I hope you're successful. If you feel a little off in the course of things,
don't let it poison your relationship. Recognize it, act on it, but don't
_react_.

------
iuguy
I'm reminded of the best personal advice ever given by a Physiscist:

 _"Dear Mrs. Chown, Ignore your son's attempts to teach you physics. Physics
isn't the most important thing. Love is. Best wishes, Richard Feynman."_

------
hartror
As long as the feelings are mutual and are able to grow beyond the initial
smitten stage then nothing wrong with falling head over heels in love.

I've done it, and come through the other side with the love of my life. ^_^

------
engilancer
The time you've invested in building the relationship will come back as
support in the form of a partner telling you to keep pushing even though
everyone else thinks you're crazy. No matter how much discipline and
confidence you have, it's always great to have the person you love tell you
they believe in you.

------
bluethunder
You have your whole life for startups. Indulgence in love is mostly limited to
your 20s. I would suggest enjoy the chemistry till it lasts - startups can
wait. The chemistry will bring you more happiness then any amount of big
company building would.

Destinations are always pointless, its always the journey. Think of this as a
detour from your startup life. In the longer run, detours will give you
valuable perspective and make your journeys more meaningful.

------
ericmsimons
Happened to me too, girl wasn't worth the time though. Dev is now at full
pace...my personal belief is that no love life is a better startup life.
Others have pulled it off though!

------
ambiate
My experience is a real relationship seems to constrict me. A girl I love and
think about all the time, but never know her name... that will make me a deity
in production and development.

------
quan
I had to check to make sure I didn't sleepwalk and submit this because almost
the exact same thing happens to me. I quitted my job 8 months ago to travel
and work on my ideas. 2 months in, I fall in love with my current girlfriend.
After a few months of long distance relationship as I traveled around the
world, we now live together in the most romantic city in the world, Paris.

During the day when she goes to school, I work on my project. At times when I
can't stand the loneliness, I get out and just hop on a random metro to read
or observe people. At night, we cook, talk, and watch movies together. I'm
having the best time of my life even though the future is a little scary to
think about. I hope you enjoy yours as well, best of luck to your startup.

------
jules
Personally falling in love motivates me to do stuff more than anything else.
Even if it didn't, I would still want to fall in love more than work on a
startup. Why work on a startup now, so that you can fall in love and be happy
later?

------
_corbett
Working hard and long hours is a part of my life–so if a partner doesn't mesh
with that they don't mesh with me. I luckily tend to only be attracted to
similarly driven people, so it usually works out for me. The few times I've
strayed personality types there have been problems.

All and all, I do consider the force that makes me obsessed with a project to
the point I can't get up for hours on end the same one as the one that makes
me neglect the project a week later to experience a wonderful new and intense
experience and I'm grateful for it. I'm lucky that I have the freedom to
wander wherever my passion is at the moment.

------
wavewash
I love startups and the thrill of success. But there is nothing that a
successful startup can bring you that is anywhere near the feeling of having
the love of your life tell you that she loves you back.

------
erikj54
I think you have all the advice you need here. Life is messy, it's not always
the dream you watched in movies growing up. There is a reason musicians and
poets alike have written so much about it. People talk on HN about start-ups
being life, as with anything in life that gives you great reward there is a
great risk. Love is no different. For you to find happiness you need to enjoy
the risk of both. How you do this and manage these different aspects of your
life depends on how you tell your stories.

------
sayemm
I can't speak from personal experience, but in this interview Max Levchin
mentions how his girlfriend was key in pushing him forward and giving him the
strength to not quit during the days before Paypal -
[http://gigaom.com/2010/11/08/in-his-own-words-the-story-
of-m...](http://gigaom.com/2010/11/08/in-his-own-words-the-story-of-max-
levchin-video/)

------
Platos_cave
I think Shakespeare puts it best...

'poor and content is rich, and rich enough'

If we base our self esteem and judge our success by the work we do, then we'll
always be found wanting. The ultimate goal of life is happiness in ourselves
or others (which in turn often brings us happiness). While a successful start
up may bring us satisfaction/money, it is ultimately only a cornerstone in our
lives.

------
ulisesroche
"...but the project seems to be on the right track again, slowly building
momentum"

Enjoy it! Looks to me like it's helping.

------
mixmax
Choose love over money.

Always.

~~~
speleding
Falling in love with a wealthy girl makes the choice even easier though, or at
least one who makes a decent living. It's better when you can do your startup
without having to worry about bread on the table tomorrow.

------
kadavy
If you are, indeed, in mutual love, then you should be very thankful.

I personally can be more focused while I'm working when I am in a
relationship, so I would see it as a benefit. When I'm not in a relationship,
there often seems to be this extra "to-do" item that is never done :)

Some people, they fall in love, and that becomes the thing that guides their
decisions in their life.

Other people don't - they love their work so much that they put it before
anything else. Or, they just don't meet someone, and instead put their energy
toward their work.

But it's still possible to use that support as fuel to motivate you. It's just
a matter of prioritizing, and making sure you don't neglect either of these
important elements in your life.

------
forkrulassail
Support structure, focus and continued encouragement is all I get. In small,
daily and consistent doses. I'm diving in full time in March, and can't see
myself doing it without the other.

------
JonnieCache
_> molecular chemistry is a tough adversary_

I hope you're sure the other party doesn't see this. Can't imagine that would
go down too well.

 _That's all I am to you? Amino acid chains?_

If obsession with love can be reduced to chemistry, then obsession with
business must necessarily be understood similarly, and with a similar inward
scepticism.

But yeah. However much you enjoy your work, it's not going to benefit it long
term to let it give you tunnel vision. However fulfilling it is, you cannot
live a one dimensional life and still be happy forever.

~~~
AndrewDucker
If the person I was dating didn't find that amusing and endearing then we'd be
doomed anyway.

I'm dating a psychologist, who has a reductionist approach to such things. She
says things like "You just gave me a massive surge of oxytocin." It's awesome.

------
antirez
There is just one life...

------
mattchew
> But I wonder if I could have done things differently,

Well, sure. Should you have? I doubt it.

You'll be able to hack and do startups the rest of your life. Most likely
you'll only have a few chances to fall in love. I recommend making the most of
them. (This goes double if you want to get married and have a family.)

------
kaerast
Its all about getting the right balance and progressing in all areas of your
life, not just one. Think about your ideal situation and work towards that.
It's often helpful to think about your priorities using a four quadrant model
- Self, Work/Money, Family, Community.

------
hippich
I had only one real love so far and it actually helped me advance. It keeps me
being motivated.

------
seltzered
Wish i could find it, but there's an HN'er who bootstrapped a business and
during the same timeframe met someone and got married, and wrote a nice blog
post about it recently. He seemed to pull it off just fine.

------
rogerjew
Best HGH is <http://www.hghforsale.org/genf20.php>

------
georgieporgie
In my experience, money is much easier to find than limerence. Also, limerence
is generally relatively short-lived. For the sake of living life, I recommend
to young people that they take a 'gap year' of sorts, and that they pursue
limerence or 'love'.

