
Apple approves previously rejected HKMap.live app - jayyhu
https://twitter.com/hkmaplive/status/1180137132842610688
======
burtonator
The fact that we can't side-load apps is a tragedy. Any anti-trust
investigation into Apple + Google should discuss this it's highly anti-
competitive.

I get that they want a sanitary app store but if I go to myapp.com I should be
able to side load.

It would also be nice to side-load from phone to phone in situations like this
so that apps can't be blocked by governments like China.

If the apps just verified keys that would be enough so that you know you're
installing the app from the right developer.

~~~
superkuh
The fact that the word 'side-load' exists and is used with a straight face is
part of the problem. Installing applications yourself is the default. It's all
these walled gardens that are weird.

~~~
Zak
As a long-time desktop Linux user, I don't quite agree with this. The default
for me long before iOS existed was to install software from my distribution's
repository. Sideloading software not included in the repository was often a
technically onerous process, to be repeated manually in case of updates. I had
pity for users of Mac OS and Windows who had no access to such convenience.

I don't think having a managed system for installing software is a bad thing
at all, though I'm disappointed the big ones don't support third-party
repositories. I do think there should always be an option to do it manually.

~~~
SN76477
As a casual user I prefer the walled garden that I get with iPhone.

Sure there are other apps but it’s just too much variety. What is out there is
good and works.

Maybe I don’t know what I am missing because I never had it.

~~~
userbinator
_Maybe I don’t know what I am missing because I never had it._

That applies to freedom too.

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xvector
The big takeaway is that the app was never _removed_ from the store - it was
just never approved. Apps not being approved is quite common.

All the headlines were saying that the app was "banned"/removed from the
store, leading to massive outrage.

~~~
calibas
I don't see how there's much difference, it's like arguing that a library
isn't "banning" a book because they refused to carry it in the first place.

~~~
xvector
Because not being approved is normal for all sorts of apps. This whole
controversy was blown out of proportion. If your app is not approved, you just
make the changes and resubmit.

~~~
Betelgeuse90
Assuming changes can be made in order to be approved while still being true to
their goal (which is essentially escaping from law enforcement). Apple
rejected the app explicitly because of what it was trying to achieve.

------
sambe
Maybe it was a misunderstanding or review failure, not an evil conspiracy? You
know, they are know to happen quite often...

~~~
Krasnol
So it's either incompetence or sucking up to China?

~~~
dang
" _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone
says, not a weaker one that 's easier to criticize. Assume good faith._"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
mark_l_watson
As others here have said, Linux distributions are well used by using official
packages. That said, my two Linux laptops and Linux servers I spin up for
personal projects are at least partially for the freedom to install anything I
want.

For macOS, iPadOS, iOS for my watch, and iOS for my iPhone, I like the
protected walled garden. I also like to sometimes use my Chromebook for the
same reason: these closed platforms feel more secure to me.

I am happy that Apple OKed the HKMap.live app.

~~~
augstein
With macOS, you can install anything you want. The macOS App Store only
contains a subset of all software available/written for macOS.

~~~
newscracker
That seems to be changing too for apps outside the Mac App Store:

"Beginning in macOS 10.15, notarization is required by default for all
software." [1]

How many users would even figure out (if it's possible and) how to bypass
this? Looks like developers will have to do a lot more.

[1]:
[https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin...](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizing_your_app_before_distribution)

~~~
weiming
Not that difficult to notarize an app. For example, the latest Sublime Text
just added it the other day.

~~~
lostgame
Alright, but, of course, we're talking about more legacy apps, here. What if
I've paid a licence for an obscure VST?

------
jyrkesh
Since no other comments or the Twitter thread have any context, here's a Boing
Boing article on what the heck HKMap.live is:
[https://boingboing.net/2019/10/04/hkmap-live-hong-
kong.html](https://boingboing.net/2019/10/04/hkmap-live-hong-kong.html)

------
dang
Recent and related:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21142977](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21142977).

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kollegekid
I once got denied. Deleted the app, changed the name by just adding a !. Got
approved. Apples process is very inconsistent. Unclear to me if it was public
pressure or just the failures of their system

------
d-sc
I’m genuinely curious. Does this app do anything that couldn’t be accomplished
by a progressive web app?

~~~
greggman2
Yes, gain a real audience. For whatever reason regular users don't use
progressive web apps at nearly the same numbers as native apps. At least on
iOS

------
WA
Slightly OT: Why does HKMap have to be an actual app and not a browser
app/PWA? Does it do something in the background or with the hardware of the
phone? Or are websites more easily blocked in HK than the App Store?

------
Razengan
What if this app is actually a "honeypot" developed by the HK/Chinese
government?

Protestors being infiltrated by those who wish to subdue them, has been a
thing since forever.

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fabrika
Our game uses emoji to represent players and their structures on the map. Just
like HKMap app which displays live events using iOS emoji font.

We’ve been rejected until we came up with our own graphics for emoji. Who
knows, maybe this was why they were rejected. Also, the UI is quite buggy.
Could be another reason.

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spunker540
Could this work as a website? Seems like the easiest way to avoid depending on
App Store

~~~
judge2020
It is, [https://hkmap.live](https://hkmap.live), and the app is probably
boilerplate with the PWA embedded inside.

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paulddraper
I get that "no encouraging illegal behavior" could be a rule.

But then I wonder how there are multiple crowd sourced speed camera apps.

~~~
delinka
How would "speed camera apps" encourage illegal behavior? The state patrol in
my state is happy for people to know where cops are places on the road, where
speed cameras are used ... this knowledge makes people slow down and makes the
road safer.

~~~
bonoboTP
> How would "speed camera apps" encourage illegal behavior?

If almost all speed cameras are in the app, then you can just slow down near
the cameras and speed everywhere else.

If there's no app, you don't know where the cameras are, so you need to be
careful everywhere.

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mister_hn
Put under pressure, Apple is coming back. Funny

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ycombonator
I bet they read the uproar here.

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paulcarroty
Cool, Apple isn't so bad I though after this app ban.

But anyway, if you're in China - be careful, seems like Chinese icloud (or
something like it) under government control, too many issues/speculations
about it.

