
Police Stingray Tools Can Indeed Record Calls - howrude
http://www.wired.com/2015/10/stingray-government-spy-tools-can-record-calls-new-documents-confirm/
======
deepnet
Considering a stingray is no more than a software radio and laptop does this
mean all cell communications are vulnerable to easy surveillance by almost
anyone ?

Are Cell Phone calls encrypted, does this mean the police devices have the
universal decryption keys ?

If the police devices have such decryption abilities then it is probably safe
to assume they have leaked and various criminals possess this as well.

Thankfully those in power have the best interests of the citizenry at heart ;)
/s

~~~
mindslight
Anecdata:

Back when I had an old 2G featurephone, I inherited the exact same model from
a friend (Sprint/CDMA). I used QPST to clone my ESN onto that one, to have a
handy backup device.

When both were on, calling my number would ring both (I only ever checked this
with them in the same cell). Picking up both I would hear audio in both until
one of them "won". The ESN can't be considered any kind of secret, so the
observed behavior makes it clear that there is no meaningful encryption.

We've had two generations of mobile protocols since then, but with Qualcomm et
al's attitude of "lock things down harder" rather than Kerckhoff's principle
and open review, I doubt security has gotten any better.

If you want meaningful mobile privacy, the only way to achieve this is with
separate application/baseband processors that communicate over an auditable
bus (so _not_ a broken-by-design Qualcomm integrated chipset), with encryption
done on the trusted application processor. The easiest way to realize this is
using a mifi+vpn+voip. Note that this still leaves your location fully
tracked, but most every use of the cell network will do that.

~~~
deepnet
It appears that 2G is the vulnerability the stingrays exploit.

"... exploits a vulnerability in the 2G protocol. Phones using 2G don’t
authenticate cell towers, which means that a rogue tower can pass itself off
as a legitimate cell tower. But because 3G and 4G networks have fixed this
vulnerability, the stingray will jam these networks to force nearby phones to
downgrade to the vulnerable 2G network to communicate." [article]

Is it possible to disable 2G ?

~~~
mikeyouse
Alternatively, is it legal to jam 3G and 4G networks? I can't imagine the FCC
takes kindly to that type of thing.. Sometimes the best solution to constrain
government overreach is to turn the bureaucratic machinery loose on itself.

~~~
15155
Considering deauthentication of wifi networks was found illegal, I would think
not.

"Jamming" also could imply willful interference (not protocol-exploiting,
radio) which is very illegal.

~~~
deepnet
I sorry I am unable to get you the medical attention you require as the police
have jammed the cell signals due to a nearby protest.

Short sighted policy policing puts everyone at risk.

------
mtgx
We've been talking about these at least for the past two years, but I haven't
seen any of the three major mobile platform vendors implement anything to
protect against this sort of attacks. What exactly are they waiting for? This
is only going to get worse. They can already break 4G connections as well with
these _weapons of mass surveillance_.

~~~
late2part
It's worth noting that the major mobile company's largest single customer is
almost certainly the federal government. And, many of them fear being Nacchio-
ed if they don't toe the line.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio)

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Oh come on, Nacchio was clearly guilty. HN is just becoming conspiracy central
it seems.

~~~
porkloin
A lot of people are guilty of a lot of things and don't ever get investigated
or prosecuted. I agree with you that people take things a little far, but I
think it's hardly conspiratorial thinking to acknowledge that the DOJ
selectively pursues cases based on other factors than the crime committed.

~~~
rayiner
A lot of people are not guilty of insider trading.

~~~
CamperBob2
Nacchio broke multiple laws every day, just like you and I do. They were
always going to be able to find _something._

~~~
rayiner
What laws do you break every day that are on the same order of magnitude as
insider trading laws?

~~~
CamperBob2
Our opinion about what laws "matter" isn't important. We're not the ones who
get to decide.

------
hackuser
Related news: The Internal Revenue Service is using StingRays:

[http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/258209-irs-
head-...](http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/258209-irs-head-
reassures-congress-about-use-of-phone-tracking-tech)

------
geggam
Used to be scanners were able to track cell phone conversations. They started
rolling frequencies but it was trivial to find out what they were and filter
for only those. The drama one could hear over cell phones was better than any
daytime soap, especially in small towns.

They digitized it and made it harder but I am sure with a bit of work one
could listen in.

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ck2
The IRS already said it can see SMS via stingray

and wtf does the IRS have its own criminal law enforcement branch vs all the
other ones at their disposal

