
Why Your Late Twenties Is the Worst Time of Your Life - antr
https://hbr.org/2016/03/why-your-late-twenties-is-the-worst-time-of-your-life
======
te_chris
HBR is losing it. This is the sort of murky, PR as meaningful content, that
you'd expect from HuffPo. As to the mind wandering being harmful, there has
been LOADS of material to counter that (here's a book about the benefits, by a
real life science person, not some contracted copywriter!
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wandering-Mind-Brain-Youre-
Looking/...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wandering-Mind-Brain-Youre-
Looking/dp/022623861X))

~~~
Yhippa
Does stuff like this article goes to print? It seems that they have a separate
group to make science-y stuff "go viral" to compete with BuzzFeed. Kind of
like what WaPo is doing now.

------
reustle
The problem with the data in this study is that it comes from the users of an
app called Happify, which is likely installed by people who don't consider
themselves happy to begin with.

~~~
madaxe_again
Furthermore, people who don't consider themselves happy to begin with _and
think an app is the solution_. That's _got_ to be a funky bubble.

~~~
Disruptive_Dave
I'm gonna be nitpicky here for a second, but Headspace played a key role in
furthering my quest for more sustainable happiness (actually, it'd be my quest
for less dissatisfaction). An app may not "make someone happy" but it just
might facilitate the process in a very reasonable way.

~~~
madaxe_again
Sure, I'm not saying it isn't the solution - just that you're going to end up
with quite a particular self-selected demographic.

Although personally I put more stead in human interaction to promulgate
happiness than an app. :)

~~~
Disruptive_Dave
Gotta jump on this opportunity. This specific app is designed to help a person
explore his/her own mind through meditation. My belief is that more people
should look within before looking externally (which is, as you say, "human
interaction") to improve themselves and the world around them. The fundamental
flaw in positioning "human interaction to promulgate happiness" is that you
attach your happiness to things outside yourself. I say start with yourself
and go from there.

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room
alone.”

------
Blackthorn
I hate to be one of those people who comments on the meta-article as opposed
to the article. but this is something I found _really_ interesting.

I didn't even realize I was reading something from Happify until halfway into
the article. The whole thing was very interesting, especially as a person who
just turned 29. While this article isn't necessarily an advertisement, it did
cause me to google Happify and see what it was about. As I did this it
occurred to me: this is what "sponsored content" should be! When you see
"sponsored content" on a website it doesn't have to be some trash
advertisement that's made to look like the rest of the site. It could be
something as good as this article!

~~~
tdkl
You should watch the last season of South Park. This isn't what we want
instead of ads.

~~~
tgb
As someone who won't watch it, can you describe it?

~~~
kristofferR
It's very hard to explain, but a person is really an ad.

It's a sarcastic and smart commentary and meta-plot throughout the whole
season about the dangers of advertisements being disguised and perceived as
being something genuine.

~~~
tgb
Thanks.

------
Artistry121
The advent of the internet and social media meant that the generation of
current people in their 20s saw much more of what different people lived like
as an example. They could stumble into early retirement, vagabonding, yoga,
libertarian-ideology, psychology research, startups, furries, and many other
lifestyle and thought pattern choices that led to much more ability to choose
both their purpose and their action steps for the future earlier. This means
that a lot of lessons that were delayed for earlier generations with less
variation of choices presented are now hitting earlier.

More choices may lead to less satisfaction:
[http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun04/toomany.aspx](http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun04/toomany.aspx)

Happiness is tricky to define.

~~~
LaurensBER
Can confirm, my Facebook timeline is very depressing as someone in their late
20ties.

Sure it might only be ~5% of my friends who are travelling, starting
companies, etc but it does create a vague sense of background stress that I'm
wasting my time not knowing what my "passion" is and just working a 9-5ish job
with 5 - 8 weeks of vacation a year.

It's pretty ridiculous when you think about it but it seems to be human
nature.

~~~
noname123
This is what I use to get rid of Facebook timeline; and use FB strictly as a
Messenger.

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/news-feed-
eradicat...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/news-feed-eradicator-
for/fjcldmjmjhkklehbacihaiopjklihlgg?hl=en)

Occasionally, I get curious and log onto my phone's Firefox to see my newsfeed
and it's so funny that the _same_ people from six months or a year ago are
posting the _same_ messages, being "mindful," "lab coat ceremonies for med/PA
school," (from the same people every year) "active lifestyle pictures". In a
way, it was really insightful because I realized that it's actually the
opposite, these "lifestyle" people did not grow up but are keeping on
parroting what they should be doing year after year.

However instead of posting witty one-liners on someone's self-serving
pictures, I've reached out to my friends more on FB messenger one-on-one where
we've talked about loneliness, depression and failures - which led to meeting
people I normally wouldn't meet up in real life.

I seriously wish that there could be a movement/art project where people would
share their worst, mundane and most insecure moments on Facebook to portray
modern living more accurately and to counter the current state of affairs on
that site.

~~~
theseatoms
> I seriously wish that there could be a movement/art project where people
> would share their worst, mundane and most insecure moments on Facebook to
> portray modern living more accurately and to counter the current state of
> affairs on that site.

These types of posts seem commonplace on Twitter.

------
chubot
Why late twenties? This part seems to describe people in their early twenties:

"When young adults get their first jobs and move into their own apartments,
they’re going it alone, usually for the first time. Moreover, as they attempt
to establish their status as adults, their environment sends them mixed
messages: regardless of their professional or personal achievements, they are
still considered by others to be "kids,"

Some people don't move out of the house until their late 20s, but some people
do, and by their late 20s have things "figured out".

------
peterwwillis
I think the problem here is they're taking data from a bunch of late-20s
millennials.

> This prolonged interim state results in a lot of pain, and some studies
> suggest today’s young people are suffering more than previous generations
> did.

These kids aren't being drafted into war service. Crime and teenage pregnancy
are down, civil rights are increasing, commodities are cheap and plentiful,
access to global information and communication is higher than ever, advances
in medicine continue to make formerly terminal diseases become manageable or
preventable. The biggest thing millennials have to stress over is their debt
and their ability to secure a job, both of which are issues most people have
had to deal with by their late 20s.

From what I understand of the quarter-life crisis, it presents mainly in
people who have been so privileged that they feel that even though they can
self-sustain, they should be doing something _better_ , like following a
passion, or living in a different place. Fear of death is another factor, but
it's less present than the fear of missing out.

Your late 20s are basically the end of what should be a wonderful time:
wasting your youth and not worrying about your body falling apart (which it
will begin to shortly). If kids these days are actually in a great deal of
pain, it's because our society has given then an irrational sense of
entitlement and fear of not having the best of everything.

~~~
purplelobster
As a late 20s millennial, what if having a quarter life crisis is actually the
sanest thing? Why shouldn't we have a crisis? We live on this earth for some
80 years, most of it which we have to spend commuting, in cubicles or doing
other chores just for sustenance. Inevitably our body will fail us, we'll be
in pain, we'll die, loved ones will die. Nothing we do really matters all that
much either. I wouldn't say I'm depressed or overly concerned with these
things but they're increasingly in the back of my mind. I'm just saying, maybe
thinking about these things is the sane thing to do? Just because people in
the past didn't have time to think about it because they were fighting for
their lives, does that make it better or right?

~~~
Domenic_S
The point is that compared to the struggles of previous generations, current-
generation late-20s people in the First World have worries far higher on
Maslow's Hierarchy [0]. Personally, I think that's a good thing -- I'm not
worried about being drafted into the war like my Grandfather, for example.

Inequality though brings some dissonance into play: two similarly aged people
sitting side-by-side on BART may have VASTLY different worries, even though
they look alike; one worries about self-actualization, the other worries about
how they'll eat because the BART fare cost almost as much as their daily wage
after tax.

It's good that people from different backgrounds and different futures coexist
and are neighbors -- we sometimes call that "diversity" \-- but standing up
the worries of those groups next to each other makes one group seem frivolous.
"I can only afford a $700k house, so I'll never live close to Campus!" vs.
Fight for 15.

I think the struggle of people "further along" always seems silly to the
people "below" them. Worrying about cubical life can seem silly and entitled
to someone struggling to pay rent + feed kids; worrying about harvesting tax
losses & capital gains rates (or whatever it is rich people worry about) seems
silly and entitled to cube drones. I'm sure there are some better illustrative
examples here that are less money-focused, but I'm out of time.

Anyway, point being, I'm not passing judgement about anything, just trying to
unpack it a bit.

[0][https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Ma...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Maslow's_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg/2000px-
Maslow's_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png)

~~~
peterwwillis
I think there's a difference in your example, though. When a poor person grows
to become a well-off person, they can still have an identity crisis as they
come to terms with the culture clash of their old way of life [and friends and
family] and a new environment surrounded by the well-off. They'd be more
satisfied with what they have, but still depressed for other reasons.

It's better to take your original example - Grandpa vs Me - as the lens for
the original survey. They had way more serious problems to deal with over a
long period of time. We've had a recession and fairly progressive politics
that has improved the lives of many (though at the same time making life worse
for non-white and low-income people).

I also like to consider how biased these surveys run by "App" companies are.
Consider all the people who don't have smartphones, or don't have the leisure
time to fill out "happiness" surveys - like most young black Americans, who
will disproportionately be more worried about getting shot by police, going to
jail, making enough money to pay for food/"the poor tax"/teenage
families/housing/etc. They're lucky if they make it to their late 20s. Or
being classified an illegal immigrant, and therefore having absolutely no
rights but still needing to make a living to support yourself and your family.
So some may be unhappy, but for radically different reasons than those polled,
like systemic racism, voting restrictions, lack of protection of human rights,
or the oligarchy of the super-rich continuing to grow a larger lower class.

~~~
Domenic_S
Right, the App surveys suffer from selection bias in a huge way. It's almost
the pinnacle of what Silicon Valley gets made fun of for, right: "you're so
dissatisfied with your comparatively cushy life that we'll make an app for
that!"

Yet we've seen [0] that our happiness is relative to our peers. Is the
happiest illegal immigrant better off (happiness-wise) than the saddest
millionaire? We build our floor on our parents' (families' etc) ceiling. If we
build a craptastic studio apartment, it doesn't matter if it's on the 300th
floor, we're still unhappy. I guess that's the empathetic way to look at it?
Sociology is hard.

[0] [http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/asa-
mcb080805...](http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-08/asa-
mcb080805.php)

------
reustle
From the video at the bottom of the post

> 20-somethings were more likely to report negative feelings and mind
> wandering, both are detrimental to well-being

Letting my mind wander whenever it wants, and only focus on working when I'm
in the mood, has been the best thing I've done in my entire career and for my
sanity. My mind is so much clearer when it is free to wander.

~~~
epalmer
I wonder if they misunderstood in ability to focus with mind wandering. Day
dreaming, which is what I learned to call it when I was very young, is very
beneficial to my sanity and creativity. I get all sorts of ideas when I let my
mind go where it wants to go.

------
davidhariri
The articles science is suspect at best.

That being said, I'm 26 and a lot of my friends and myself describe what the
authors are talking about when we talk about life. It's really hard to find
your place and be happy in this crazy world. I feel lucky to have found
programming and my wife, but many of my pals aren't having the same feelings
of direction and satisfaction. It's all subjective to what each individual
desires anyway, but its interesting to ponder.

------
zhte415
The very short article had a link to a large BPO company as an 'in association
with' at the side of the page.

But the page didn't load well, so re-loaded.

The same article had a link another large BPO company (competitor to the
first), also as a 'in association with' at the side of the page.

If working for a consultancy in a BPO role, it is very likely late 20s is the
worst time of your life. Graduate, join a big name, and then pin-holed into a
tiny-tiny role doing a repetitive job in an extremely hierarchical
organisation where career progression is slow not for anyone, but everyone, as
verticals in the organisation prevent diversification.

To quote Adam Smith, often quoted regarding the brilliance of pin-production
and need for specialisation, but having far greater insight into the
consequences of such production methods, now done by ERP and email:

> The man whose whole life is spent in performing a few simple operations
> generally becomes as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human
> creature to become. The torpor of his mind renders him not only incapable of
> relishing or bearing a part in any rational conversation, but of conceiving
> any generous, nobdle, or tender tentiment, and consequently of forming any
> just judgement concerning many even of the orginary duties of private life.

> The rude state of husbandry which preceeds the improvement of manufactures,
> and the extention of foreign commerce. In such societies, the varied
> occupations of evey man oblige evey man to exert his capacity, and to invent
> expendients for removing difficulties which are continually occurring.

------
apahwa
signup for an account and see the baseline questions. this data is completely
useless

------
aaronwidd
That article left much unanswered.

One side thought is that I really wonder what the societal implications are of
life-stage depression shifting down to a younger age, coupled with a massive
generational cohort (millennials) all entering that life phase at the same
time. What effect does a collective wave of people all feeling hopeless at
once have on our culture?

------
macavity23
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return)
:)

