

What was wrong with V-tail Bonanza pilots? (2012) - omnibrain
http://airfactsjournal.com/2012/06/tail-tale-what-was-wrong-with-v-tail-bonanza-pilots/

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steejk
I fly a Cirrus and it is not inherently more difficult or dangerous to fly
then any other aircraft. What Cirrus has done is make an aircraft which brings
new pilots into flying with the concept of using an aircraft like you would a
car. The debate comes when the addition of technology (e.g parachute) is added
and its ability to increase safety by not allowing pilots to make mistakes or
always saving them.

The accident statistics are also interesting as actually the average
experience of pilots involved in accidents are very high and you are more
likely to be involved in an accident when flying with an instructor. There is
no doubt though that more training in an aircraft type and currency are the
two biggest ways to decrease accident rates. [1]

It is also funny that Cirrus' latest aircraft is a V-tail jet aimed at owner
pilots! [2]

1\.
[https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/safety_programs/w/safety_p...](https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/safety_programs/w/safety_pages/721.cirrus-
accident-rates.aspx)

2\. [http://cirrusaircraft.com/vision/](http://cirrusaircraft.com/vision/)

~~~
olympus
There is a common opinion in the aviation community that several of the
"saves" from the recovery chute in a Cirrus shouldn't really count. In an
aircraft that wasn't equipped with a parachute, (anecdotally) many of the
"departures of controlled flight" could have been fixed without a chute before
crashing. Undoubtedly some of them are actual saves, but opinion is that
people pull the handle too early just because it is there and they get scared.
Again, this is just an opinion and not shared by everyone.

~~~
steejk
That may be the case, but I don't think it is an argument against the chute.
As pilots, we look at past accidents and it is easy to say 'I wouldn't have
done that' but once placed in that situation, the reality is often different.
The COPA motto for use of the chute is 'Pull early, Pull often' and I think
this represents the fact that training can only go so far (this is seen to be
the case both with professional and amateur pilots) and pilots should not
'deserve' to crash due to poor decision making.

I don't think anyone takes the decision of pulling the parachute lightly, but
in many cases it is statistically the best path to take (there have been no
fatalities through proper use of the parachute). If pilots had been using the
parachute in cases where it is not necessary, insurance premiums etc. would
reflect this but this has not been the case. I think the main debate is to the
risk of injuring someone on the ground. Thankfully this has not happened yet,
but it should be the duty of pilots to put the safety of others ahead of
themselves.

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blunte
I grew up in a Bonanza - H, M, and V35 models. I still think they are on of
the sexiest designs.

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olympus
My grandpa owned a V35 and while he didn't have a problem with controlling the
airplane, he did land it with the gear retracted, which screwed up the bottom
skins and the prop. I heard the "doctor killer" nickname several times, but
never knew anyone who actually crashed it (there were several at the airport
he flew out of).

~~~
mikeash
They say there are two kinds of pilots who fly retracts: those who have landed
with the gear up, and those who will.

I'm currently in the latter category and trying my damndest to stay there, but
the odds don't seem good.

~~~
freework
just remember to do gumps check everytime on short final

~~~
mikeash
I'm a glider pilot, so I do FUSTAL around when I enter downwind: flaps,
undercarriage, speed, trim, airbrakes, look.

Just checking won't save you 100% of the time, though. My partner once forgot
to retract the gear earlier in a flight, then came in to land and did the U
part by moving the lever to the other position. I think the stripe he painted
down the runway cost about $50/foot. Fortunately the repair was great and it's
good as new.

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towndrunk
We call them "fork tail doctor killers" at the airport I hang out at.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Same here in Texas. I think the implication is that many of the pilots
are/were "casuals" flying airplanes whose performance exceeded their skill.

~~~
6stringmerc
That's the version of the story I heard as well...to put a little bit more
context, because the plane was quite expensive, typically the people who could
afford to get one would be in a high paying profession. Anecdotally, the chat
around pilot circles was also that the mental attitude of highly successful
professionals - such as Doctors - gave an air of confidence that wasn't earned
when it came to airplanes. As in, too self assured, and when it was time to
trust the instruments or go down, the latter happened a lot more than the
former.

Side note: I haven't seen the number in a while, but supposedly the Dodge
Viper was one of the most lethal cars when purchased new, in that it had so
much performance that its inexperienced driver would get into trouble very
quickly (as in, within weeks / a month of purchase). This was from quite a
while ago, and I think several companies started including driving courses or
'limited performance' aspects to their flagship vehicles to prevent this kind
of reputation (ex: 'Valet Key' or a specific dongle to unlock full potential).

~~~
ansible
_I haven 't seen the number in a while, but supposedly the Dodge Viper was one
of the most lethal cars when purchased new, in that it had so much performance
that its inexperienced driver would get into trouble very quickly..._

That doesn't surprise me. A front-engine, rear-wheel drive car could
(depending on how the handling is adjusted) have massive oversteer coming out
of a corner if you lay on the accelerator. So there are plenty of
opportunities to get into trouble. In the hands of a pro, this can really help
getting through the corner quickly. But an amateur could easily spin out.

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hoodwink
My father was a dentist and we owned a V35 from the 1950's while I was growing
up.

