
Boiling point: redesigning the kettle for the 21st century - heydenberk
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/08/innovators-boiling-point-redesigning-kettle-miito
======
username223
I'm not seeing the point here, especially for $120.

If it's fast, you'll end up with an extremely hot metal rod at the end of the
cooking process, which you have to wash if you're heating anything other than
water, and which will burn milk, soup, etc. Plus, you can't use it with metal
containers, so a stainless-steel insulated travel mug is right out, unless you
want to drink your tea with an oven mitt.

Plus, there's no mention of how much of a household's energy budget is spent
heating water. I'm guessing "not very much," so energy savings are a red
herring. $120 spent on LED lights or insulation around your hot water heater
will probably save a lot more.

To make a single cup of hot water, it's much easier to: (1) microwave it; (2)
stick in an immersion heater; or (3) pour a cup's worth into your kettle, turn
it on, then pour the result back into your cup.

EDIT: Relevant, more detailed analysis: [http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-
math/2012/05/burning-desire-f...](http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-
math/2012/05/burning-desire-for-efficiency/)

~~~
glibgil
Kettles are only for water. Ever.

~~~
sushid
Right but the article mentions how this invention will allow you to heat other
liquids:

> The design’s capability of heating soup and food for babies as well as a
> coffee in a cup means the invention has left the kettle far behind, said
> Grase, 26.

------
rdtsc
Well you can get a cup size immersion heater:

[http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Immersion-Heater-Portable-
Beve...](http://www.amazon.com/Instant-Immersion-Heater-Portable-
Beverage/dp/B000VK0DRY)

For about $9. We used to have those growing up.

But those can be very unsafe. (Or at least those designed and built by the
Soviet industry were...).

~~~
archagon
I used to use these. Convenient on the go, always amazed my fellow travelers.
But then I read an Amazon review where the guy used a multimeter to
demonstrate that his model conducted electricity into his cup... and I decided
to stick to normal kettles from then on!

~~~
yardie
If you pass an electric current through a metal coil you will create a
magnetic field. A magnetic field will create an electric field. So it isn't
surprising a heating coil produces an electricity into the cup. What is
important is how much and where.

Most people, I assume, are smart enough not to put there finger into a cup of
hotwater to find where the electric current runs through.

~~~
archagon
I had the additional problem of using a metal Klean Kantern to boil my water,
so it was easy to forget to not touch the outside. (Mine never shocked me, but
I get the feeling that these things aren't exactly made with care...)

------
kazinator
Electric heating elements that can be used with a mug are nothing new. This is
recycled 1970's tech, if not older. The only difference is that this is IH,
which just makes it a more complicated mouse trap than the following compact
(and cheap!) design:

[http://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1497616/preview/stoc...](http://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/1497616/preview/stock-
footage-accelerated-heating-water-in-a-mug-with-a-compact-boiler.jpg)

That's something you can slip into your backpack for traveling.

Google image saerch for "immersion travel water heater":

[https://www.google.com/search?q=immersion+travel+water+heate...](https://www.google.com/search?q=immersion+travel+water+heater&tbm=isch)

This IH-driven metal stick is not going revolutionize the way we heat liquids.
If the market was eager for immersion heating, the existing immersion heaters
would be everywhere. You don't see them much, though, and they have had
decades to take off.

------
rasz_pl
Brilliant, revolutionary, fresh, lets make a kickstarter and pour millions of
dollars into this, after all its standing vertically!

[http://termos.com.pl/p/2013/09/turystyczna-grzalka-do-
gotowa...](http://termos.com.pl/p/2013/09/turystyczna-grzalka-do-gotowania-
wody-okazja-2-3473815171.jpg)

------
letstryagain
In our office we have this

[http://www.billi.com.au/](http://www.billi.com.au/)

Spits out near-boiling water heated on-demand basically instantly.

~~~
Numberwang
Looks cool, but not sure it's something I'll ever be able to motivate a buy
for.

(I went to the site and did a first scan with the words 'Spits out near-
boiling water heated on-demand' and the first image i saw was this
[http://www.billi.com.au/cms_images/17_29-09-2012_2608.png](http://www.billi.com.au/cms_images/17_29-09-2012_2608.png)
which made me chuckle.)

------
sirgawain33
Would be interesting to see some specs/measurements to substantiate their
proposed energy savings -- without an insulated heating vessel it's hard to
believe this is more energy efficient than existing technology.

~~~
nevdka
Even using an insulated kettle, the water ends up in the same uninsulated cup.

It seems the biggest efficiency comes form heating much less water in the
first place. Given that a typical cup of tea will stay hot for several times
longer than the time spent heating it, the lack of insulation should be more
than made up for by heating less water.

But, yes. Specs and measurements are required to substantiate specific claims.

~~~
inverba
A lot of teas need the water to be a specific temperature before they are put
into cups/have the tea leaves inserted. Even if "the water ends up in the same
uninsulated cup", the process of getting the water to the correct temperature
will be more efficient in an insulated container.

Also, it's hard to believe that this would substantially decrease the amount
of water heated. If you were super anal about only heating the water needed,
then that's do-able with a tea kettle. If you're not, then even under the new
model you would probably just use a kettle or pot most of the time.

------
gambiting
Really?

We had those for at least 50 years:

[http://www.img.chh.pl/large_size/cdeeb903fbbd7e9488757bb92fc...](http://www.img.chh.pl/large_size/cdeeb903fbbd7e9488757bb92fcbe97f.jpg)

I don't see how it's any different?

------
guelo
I'm not a tea drinker but I've always wondered why people don't just use the
microwave.

~~~
guyzero
So I don't have any real proof but there's a common belief that I also share
that microwaved water tastes different from kettle-boiled water. I realize
many people will dismiss this, but most of them probably aren't tea drinkers.
And that all said, I'm sure there are a lot of people who use microwaved water
for tea and are very happy with it.

Also, if you're making a pot of tea a kettle generally works better. Not sure
if I'd want to put a whole teapot in my microwave.

Anyway, the real solution is to own one of these:
[http://www.zojirushi.com/app/category/water-
boilers](http://www.zojirushi.com/app/category/water-boilers)

~~~
meesterdude
Can confirm, just microwaved my tea water this morning. Still yum.

------
fernly
Big-ass induction coil... bet it would do a quick number on a credit card. Or
a thumb-drive... or a phone... "Oh, is that one of those induction battery
chargers?" fzzzzt!

------
starware
$120 is expensive.It would take 16 years to make 2 cents on your investment.
You don't believe me, here is my calculation:

Regarding energy usage: 1 cup of water is 28 grams t0=25s t1=100s C=4.18
_10^3J /kg.s Q=mc(t1-t0) for boiling Q=.028_4.18 _10^3_ 75=8778J 8778J
correspond to 0.00243833333 kilowatt hours so if you pay .11$ per Kw hour we
are talking about 2 cents per cup! If we are wasteful and 2 cups of water and
drink 1 we have wasted 2 cents. How much time I have wait to make profit on my
120 investment. 120/0.02=6000 And if you drink 1 cup of tea a day. You have
wait 6000/365=16 years. You have to wait 16 years to make money on your
investment.

~~~
unwind
Uh, no, a typical cup is way more than 28 grams of water.

A standard metric cup is 250 ml, so you're off almost by a factor of 10 on
that value, at least. I didn't check your calculations, perhaps that was just
a typo though.

------
brianshaler
I wonder if there's any technical reason they wouldn't be able to have a
thermometer at or near the end of the rod. It would be interesting to see it
heat the rod rapidly and then fluctuate the induction base when an ideal
temperature is reached in order to maintain that temperature. Ideally
wirelessly, but I suppose the top of the rod could have a tether back to the
base.

Different substances have different temperature restrictions, but it seems
like for rapid heating, you could target 100C at the end of the rod but reduce
power as the liquid (perhaps monitored by a second thermometer higher up the
rod) approaches 70C, or whatever your preferred temperature is.

~~~
rsfern
I think it'd be pretty difficult to do for arbitrary liquids, because i
imagine there would be some non-trivial temperature gradients. You'd probably
have to account for the heat capacity and thermal conductivity of your soup to
get it close to right. Simpler and cheaper to just use an old-fashioned
thermocouple that clips onto the mug wall or something.

~~~
brianshaler
That's a good point. Perhaps an infrared sensor pointed down from the handle
would give you meaningful data.

------
hackuser
OT: I've always wondered, why aren't pots (edit: all pots, not just water
kettles) insulated? And to take it step further, why aren't the stove burner
and its interface with the pot also insulated?

To test the energy loss yourself: Put a pot on the stove, turn on the stove,
and hold your hand over the pot, next to the pot, and also touching the side
of the pot. (DO NOT DO THIS. It's dangerous. Do it as a thought experiment
instead.)

~~~
droopyEyelids
The nice ones are (and solve this wasted energy problem, and eliminate time
spent waiting for water to boil, and any rain dance to get non-100C water)

[https://zojirushi.com/app/category/water-
boilers](https://zojirushi.com/app/category/water-boilers)

~~~
hackuser
Thank you. For people who want to know more about Zojirushi's tech:

[http://www.zojirushi.com/product/product_wb_01.html](http://www.zojirushi.com/product/product_wb_01.html)

Do you know of insulated products for other types of pots, besides kettles?

------
wodenokoto
It should come with a set of tea spoons with insulated handles, then you could
put instant coffee in your cup, stir and heat with the same object!

~~~
Theodores
It should also come in a 'kettle' so that it can be used conventionally in a
receptacle with pouring spout. This would make migration easier. A kettle with
a removable element that you can put straight in your cup.

------
lbotos
This is a great place to ask 2 questions:

1) Anybody using single serve electric kettles that have variable temp
heating? Some teas need lower temps and I'm usually drinking 1-2 cups at a
time.

2) I've always imagined building some kind of adjustable mechanical whistle
into a kettle to accomplish this. Is that possible to make a kettle whistle
with "low" steam?

~~~
girzel
Chinese tea shops often use little electric kettles (maybe two cups worth)
that sit on a base, and are kept at a constant (adjustable) temperature,
usually just below boiling. The constant heating is good for lengthy tea
sessions -- if you just want a cup or two you could probably just switch it
off when it reaches the right temperature.

------
tudorw
~ 1 in 1000 children in the UK suffer from scalding accidents every year
involving kettles, so anything to reduce the quantity of boiling water around
is good, I've got one of these, works just fine
[http://www.onecupkettle.co.uk/](http://www.onecupkettle.co.uk/)

------
DiThi
I have a small and cheap kettle (1L), which I just fill with the amount of
water that the cup has. Problem solved.

------
alexi_dst
My grandparents use this little boiling device. May not be fancy looking but
it's does the job, it's cheap and portable.
[http://imgur.com/gallery/Yk23aAl/new](http://imgur.com/gallery/Yk23aAl/new)

------
joshuaheard
How fast is it? It would have to compete with the speed of an electric kettle
or microwave.

Also, other than the fact that it uses induction, there are many single cup
liquid boilers on the market. Their design seems really clean and efficient,
though.

------
click170
So it works with glass, ceramics, anything non-ferrous.

What if I had a ferrous mug with say a wooden handle, would I still need the
iron rod, or would the system not work at all?

~~~
wodenokoto
Your cup would be insanely hot near the rim, so don't drink from it!

------
matznerd
Why not just measure the water in your cup first, then pour it into the
kettle? Seems to solve the problem for me...

~~~
unwind
That's in the article: most kettles have a minimum-fill line, which is often
way above the volume required for a single cup.

------
starware
Brilliant is an understatement for this innovative design! But it takes
probably much longer time for the water to boil.

