
Tesla Motors plans to debut cheaper car in early 2015 (2013) - bane
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/15/autos/la-fi-hy-autos-tesla-model-e-debut-2015-20131213
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jccooper
I note that this is from Dec 15, 2013. Is this supposed to be one of those
historical interest posts?

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jschmitz28
It hit the front page on reddit and now it's naturally flowing down into the
HN karma grab. I personally didn't know it was planned for this early until
now.

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Houshalter
It hit the front page of reddit due to a backlash by users against mods of
/r/Technology secretly removing all posts about Tesla. Users are upset and
posting tons of posts about Tesla in protest. They are spelling it "Telsa" and
"teslas motors" to get around the automated filter.

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perryh2
What is the main attraction behind buying a Tesla or other electric vehicles?
The main sources of energy in the United States are still oil, coal, and
natural gases. This means that most energy use in the US will still contribute
to pollution and consumption of a non-renewable resource. It makes a lot of
sense to drive an electric vehicle in a country like France, where 75% of
energy comes from nuclear and around 15% comes from hydro sources.I think a
Model S would still be an interesting car to drive given the torque provided
by an electric motor, but the car still is pretty heavy (5,000 lbs due to
batteries) and uses a lot of electricity to charge.

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simonsquiff
The environmental stuff is actually just the icing on the cake - EVs have a
number of advantages over internal combustion and the disadvantages keep
getting smaller.

-awesome acceleration due to instant torque and no gearbox

-amazing handling due to low centre of gravity (heavy batteries at the bottom)

-quieter

-minimal servicing / repair costs due to much simpler drive train with fewer moving parts and no fluid

-more internal space (no crank shaft etc - especially in the back row this makes the middle seat so much more comfortable without a big bulge between your feet)

-more external space (e.g the Tesla S has a front trunk (frunk) where the engine normally is)

-safety factor - extra crumple space with the frunk and no engine to go into your legs in front on collision

-cheaper to run especially in high gas cost areas like Europe

-some areas have perks like using the HOV or bus lane

-convenience factor of 'filling up' at home

The environmental stuff is all goodness (and other responses have illustrated
how this still holds even in coal dominated areas) but for many is not the
driving factor.

Obviously EVs are not for everyone. My analogy is that they are like SSDs -
better in every way except size (range) and cost, and therefore not viable for
some...but that will rapidly change as the technology moves on.

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amalag
One issue that still has to be solved is for people like me to charge them
without a garage. Swapping batteries is interesting, I wonder if it will
become a cheap reality.

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tgcordell
This is a huge issue that doesn't get a lot of airtime. Many urban city
dwellers rely on street parking. What solution is around for them to charge
their vehicles? I love the concept Tesla is pushing, but this problem has me
vexed.

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nawitus
As for the competition, Volkswagen e-Golf will have a range of 118 miles, Kia
Soul EV a range of 124 miles and Nissan Leaf is rumored to have a 135 miles
range by 2015.

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arethuza
The BMW i3 is available now (at least here in Europe, don't know about the US)
and is getting excellent reviews and delivers a lot of technology (most of it
is carbon-fiber reinforced plastic) for a fairly low price - starting under
£30K here in the UK.

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DannoHung
Isn't 40k still squarely in the luxury car range? But more like the beginning
of it?

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jschmitz28
Especially if this is the base price. I'm prepared to be massively
disappointed when 40k is the cost of the smallest battery model and the
largest is 50-60k. I don't care about most optional car upgrades but vehicle
range is so important that I hope they don't choose to bundle a larger battery
with cosmetic options.

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ssmoot
Price out a Model S. They're as bad (or worse) as BMW as far as options go.

$80K with cloth seating. You don't even get the plug in charger standard, just
a trickle charger. And the plug in is three times the price of a good 7kw
charger. You don't even get Maps integration standard.

So yeah, unless they pull a 180 on the Model S options by 2017 I'd fully
expect a Model C to ship with $10K in options as a rule, and come in a
Leaf/Focus range matching version around 150 miles and a 250+ mile version for
a substantial premium.

As a Leaf SL owner the only thing I don't have is the Bose audio system and
the "around view" camera system.

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encoderer
Cloth Seats? Are you _certain_?

From what I remember, the entry-level seating is synthetic leather. This is
exactly the same as you get standard on an E-Class.

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motbob
A quote from an industry analyst in the article: "No car company can live off
20,000 to 30,000 sales a year and be profitable in the long term."

Is this true?

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jblow
Ferrari sells under 8000 cars a year.

Lamborghini sells under 2500 a year.

Chalk this article up to careless punditry, i.e. what you get from an ad-
driven internet news model.

Edit: just for kicks, I looked up Rolls Royce, which is kind of the canonical
"luxury car". Under 4000 cars a year.

~~~
sz4kerto
Ferrari is owned by Fiat (and it has an exceptional history). Lamborghini is
owned by VW. RR is owned by BMW.

All of these cars use technologies funded by or borrowed from their parent.
Lamborghini was seriously behind the cutting-edge when VW bought it, now they
are catching up (last independently made Lambos had tubular frames).

One of the smallest independent automaker is Mazda, it produces around 1.2M
cars per year, they can afford this because they're really innovative.

Tesla has some leeway for now as electric engines are significantly simpler
than modern combustion engines, as the latter are extremely difficult to
design because of environmental regulations (especially European ones).
Designing a nice interior or rigid chassis is simpler than operating a
naturally aspirated V10 in the E90 M5 that has an Euro5 cert..

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ams6110
Ford has had varying degrees of ownership in Mazda. For most of the 1990s and
early 2000s they had controlling interest. There has been a lot of technology
and design sharing. I don't follow it closely, but I think in recent years
Ford as sold off a good chunk of their Mazda investment and no longer has a
controlling share.

~~~
skyebook
Yeah, I gawked when I saw the Mazda comment too. A bunch of Mazda's in those
years, especially the 90's were rebadged Fords. Compare the Mazda Navajo to
Ford Explorer Sport's of the same vintage [1]

[1]
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Navajo](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Navajo)

~~~
foobarian
Lots of design sharing in the sedans too. Ford Fusions/Mercury Milans/Lincoln
MKZs were all based on the same platform as Mazda 6, and even use their
transmissions.

~~~
skyebook
The MKZ as well? That's impressive, would've never guessed.

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sasoon
Cheaper Tesla car might be announced in early 2015, but it will not be
available until Gigafactory starts making batteries. Battery cost is the main
obstacle.

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goofygrin
This wasn't news in 2013... Thus has been known for years (and why I have a
focus electric until the end of 2015 - I'm waiting for the model e.

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Eleutheria
Cheaper but not cheap enough.

Until we flood the streets with under 20k electric cars.

