
The Obscure Economist Silicon Valley Billionaires Should Dump Ayn Rand For - dchun
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/09/the-obscure-economist-henry-george-ayn-rand
======
mnm1
"Chances are that will be Ayn Rand and her extreme form of capitalism, which
she called objectivism."

Rand's views on capitalism are only a small part of her philosophy and not at
all the most interesting or compelling by far. By reducing objectivism to a
form of capitalism, the author and most contemporary Rand proponents show they
know little to nothing about objectivism and understand little to nothing of
Rand's philosophy. It's sad that this aspect of her writings is so emphasized
over everything else when it's the least interesting and least compelling of
her writings about the human condition and the self. Most people using Rand's
philosophy as a justification for their exploits of others would be considered
looters by Rand, the exact opposite of what she espouses.

~~~
polotics
Rand failed by her own metrics: a little old lady requiring social help... Not
a philosopher, or much of a novelist.

~~~
mnm1
What kind of an asshole would not help a little old lady who requires help?
Rand would and so would anyone who understands her philosophy.

~~~
polotics
Well, no. She was at first trying to refuse social help until the reality that
she was actually poor was forced upon her.

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kashkhan
> When you work for an hour, you increase society’s wealth (and your own) by
> an hour’s worth of wages.

true.

> When you save a dollar rather than spending it, you increase society’s (and
> your own) wealth by a dollar

um no. spending only transfers the dollars, and normally you trade the dollar
for something worth more to you than the dollar & vice versa, and society's
wealth increases due to trade.

~~~
_0ffh
Yeah, this is total bs. The economy needs the money to circulate, then
everybody gets richer. Money has no value but as a share of the economies'
production. When money flows, production goes up. The problem is when some
people who are so rich that they can barely spend a few per cents of their
income. Instead of getting spent, the money gets invested. But that's not
really circulation, it's the opposite: Stuck money used to stick more money.

Edit: This is not to say that there isn't any merit in Georges' other ideas.

~~~
dantheman
Money not spent/deferred means that the person producing basically volunteered
their time.

Money invested is spent - it's spent by people who it's given to.

There is no such thing as "stuck" money.

~~~
kashkhan
depends on how that money is "produced".

Is it obtained by labor or by extracting rent.

When labor is added (get paid for building a house) real value is generated.
In comparison having a piece of land go up in price, no real value is created
for society.

In a society with 100 dollars, having zero velocity of money means trade using
money is stopped. That's "stuck".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money)

~~~
true_religion
The purpose of money isnt' wholly to create value for society; its also to
serve as a medium with which to measure the allocation of scarce resources.

If land prices go up, the resources associated with them then get allocated to
those who find the greatest utility, and the money goes to other who will then
_spend_ it on other things.

If you force prices to stay static, you just get the Bay Area where whoever
plopped themselves on the land first gets to keep it, like some kind of landed
aristocracy.

~~~
kashkhan
tokyo is ahead of bay area in the process. Prices go up but then will go down
as people decide its not worth it, and other places become "cooler".

Also tech (autonomous cars, hyperloop, flying cars , VR/AR ) or econ (UBI)
disruption is coming in the next decade or two...

------
homarp
The book is available here:
[http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm](http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm)

Previous HN Discussions: "Land-value tax: Why Henry George had a point" \-
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10442929](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10442929)

How I Used Eve Online to Predict the Great Recession -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9158868](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9158868)

------
tim333
> You’ve got to think of “land” as a metaphor for all unproductive forms of
> capitalism... Goldman...

Banking existed in George's day too and when he said land I think he meant
land. Land issues are still relevant today - in SF/silicon valley much of the
value created by the tech industry has ended up with landlords who did nothing
to produce it. You could make an argument for taxing that and spending it on
social stuff. Also places like Monaco and Hong Kong have been successful in
having low / zero taxes on wages etc by the government keeping ownership of
much of the land and getting income from that.

------
notacoward
I have a lot of respect for Georgists and geolibertarians, unlike the much
more common Randroids and propertarians (which one geolibertarian author quite
rightly calls "royal libertarians" both because of where their wealth came
from and the role they aspire to). The central Georgist/geolib idea of a land
value tax has been tried quite a few times, generally with quite positive
economic effects even before factoring in the moral effect of taxing rents
instead of productive enterprise. The author's right that these ideas deserve
more exposure than the melange of crappy fiction and crappier ideology that is
Ayn Rand.

------
sparkzilla
The author of the piece says Rand "rationalizes greed," which is false, as
there are many forms of greed, not just financial. My understanding is that
she says that society is most moral when people are able to trade without
coercion, and therefore the wealth generated from free trade cannot be
classified as "greed".

------
british_india
The author of the piece, Michael Kinsley, is a flat out genius. That is and
has been apparent going back to his both incisive and funny comments on
Crossfire.

I started reading the article and was blown away within the first paragraph by
the quality of the writing and I scrolled up to see the author and.... Michael
Kinsley.

------
mindcrash
"According to James Stewart (the prominent business journalist, not the even
more prominent actor), writing in The New York Times, President Trump says Ayn
Rand is his favorite writer and that The Fountainhead, her pulmonary embolism
of a book, is his favorite novel. Travis Kalanick, the onetime Übermensch of
Uber, is on board, as is (liberal foodies, please note) John Mackey, co-
founder and C.E.O. of Whole Foods."

Or the actual reason why the author thinks Ayn Rand should be "dumped", in
case you are wondering.

President Trump is a fan of Ayn Rand. Travis Kalanick likes her books. John
Mackey likes her books aswell. This proofs that Ayn Rand is evil and therefore
her ideas are evil. Guilty by association.

Someone who somehow survived the atrocities of communism and dedicated the
rest of her life to make sure nobody would face the same atrocities like she
did again. And this person is considered to be evil.

Well, you know what, author over at Vanity Fair? Maybe Ayn Rand had some
points which are debatable but YOU have unmasked yourself as a far left
"liberal" ideologue. So fuck off, and take your ideological bullshit with you.

~~~
dang
> _YOU have unmasked yourself as a far left "liberal" ideologue. So fuck off,
> and take your ideological bullshit with you._

Please don't post ideological rants to HN. Regardless of how lousy an article
or a comment may be, all this does is poison the commons and degrade the
discourse further. We're trying to avoid those things here.

Please see
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html).

------
dnautics
on the other hand, nobody built a world-changing global repository of
information based on Henry George's principles, so as much I dislike her,
empirically speaking Ayn Rand has that going for her.

~~~
notahacker
Ayn Rand's principles invented the internet? Someone should write the history
of how all those government-funded research institutes weren't really
involved.

~~~
noobermin
From government research to the Great Depression, the only way libertarian
economics escapes unscathed is by ignorance of history.

~~~
dnautics
if you didn't know that wikipedia was created after Randian principles, then
it is you who is ignorant.

