

Why There Are No Game Console App Stores - 10char
http://clayallsopp.com/posts/why-there-are-no-console-app-stores?

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trimbo
As an ex-EA employee, I think I know the real reasons. They're Target, Walmart
and Carrefour. The packaged game industry is still beholden to retailers.

~~~
bentcorner
As an Xbox customer I always wonder why MSFT doesn't sim-ship their games on
their Games on Demand service (and, why their GoD prices are never
competitive). I guess it's the retailers.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
Shelf space on retailers is still the most important way to advertise. After
Steam hit brick & mortar PC sales hard, the retailers are now ready to
immediately and harshly punish any platform that tries to do the same.

~~~
chaostheory
What? Before Steam, brick and mortar PC sales were already down. Even stores
like Gamestop and Bestbuy lowered their inventory. At the end of the day
people just wanted to pop in a disc and have the game work without worrying
about patches, drivers, and expensive hardware config. I feel that this was
one of the main reasons for the downfall of PC Gaming back then, besides
consoles catching up in terms of graphical quality.

While Steam doesn't solve everything, it makes the software portion of config
way easier; not to mention the games are way cheaper than what normal retail
stores would charge.

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kayoone
I think it's more of a control and quality issue. Steam also has lots of AAA
titles and no problem with race to the bottom pricing. Maybe it indeed is a
hardware profit issue, but then valve would have similar problems. I honestly
don't understand why they don't go full force on app stores, it would change
the game and imo is their only chance to survive vs Valve and Apple.

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soundoflight
Why does Xbox Live Indies (previously called Community Games) not count?
Microsoft has had that in for a few years on the 360. There are quite a few
really good non-minecraft clones on that service.

As for Sony, what about the fact that they have a similiar thing on PS Vita
with the Playstation Mobile Developer program.

~~~
darkxanthos
Down voted since you apparently didn't read the article. The author
specifically addresses Xbox Live Indies.

Before I read the article I agreed but turns out there's a pretty solid point
in there. It's funny how the consoles are racing towards this whole notion of
the physical media doesn't matter when that seems to be precisely where
consumers attribute the value.

~~~
brudgers
The article true Scotsmanned the Xbox approach and the above comment rightly
describes this with the phrase "not count". The article's arguments are
severely undermined by the Xbox ecosystem and its dismissal by the author is
intellectually lazy and his dismissive claim is unsupported within the piece.

~~~
ido
As someone making his full time income from game development for the past
several years, the common wisdom among developers is that there's a handful of
commercially successful games on XBLIG (which is not the same as the much more
successful XBLA) & that you can pretty much discount that as a profitable
option if you intend on making a commercial indie game.

It is simply a lot harder to make money on XBLIG than on Steam/app store/play
market.

~~~
homosaur
As someone who has never touched XBLIG as a dev or XNA, why do most of the
games on XBLIG look so horrible? Is it just a bad SDK from Microsoft or can
they just not attract top end development talent?

~~~
ido
Low likelihood of profitability make putting a considerable budget behind an
XBLIG game an irrational risk. Technically there is no reason you won't be
able to make good looking games with xna (at least in 2d, not any worse than
what you can get running on flash or iphone).

The "top end" developers mostly go straight to XBLA.

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teamonkey
The game price range on PS4 will be $0.99 to $60.

[http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/122311-Sony-CEO-
Gi...](http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/122311-Sony-CEO-Gives-
PS4-Games-0-99-to-60-Price-Range)

------
10char
If you're curious about the state of console development, there's an
_excellent_ Reddit comment/thread @payne92 just shared with me:

[http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_minecraft_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18irx0/the_minecraft_test_how_to_tell_if_your_console_is/c8fcm4v)

The long and short of it is a) developing a non-Xbox Indie game is incredibly
expensive and prohibitive b) (for now) state of Xbox Indie game network and
framework is crippled c) Steam is a much better, although still imperfect,
beast to deal with.

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mikerob
Over time Nintendo will probably sell all their classics on other platforms
app stores, eventually just that like how sega have transformed into content
only.

~~~
niggler
That's not clear. AFAICT Nintendo isn't losing money on each unit sold

~~~
chaostheory
No. Starting with the 3DS, Nintendo has finally started selling hardware at a
loss.

[http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/nintendo-
will-...](http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/nintendo-will-sell-
wii-u-at-a-loss-rely-on-games-for-profit-1107450)

[http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/26/nintendo-confirms-that-
it...](http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/26/nintendo-confirms-that-its-
selling-3ds-at-a-loss-expects-that/)

However just like everyone else, this will eventually change once the cost of
components starts going down.

~~~
CrazedGeek
It was making a profit again three months later:
[http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-25-nintendo-3ds-
pr...](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-25-nintendo-3ds-
profitability-improving-despite-overall-losses)

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ditojim
all the game consoles have app stores. seriously.

~~~
gmrple
App stores, yes, but how difficult/expensive is it to get your code onto the
console?

~~~
ditojim
the title of the article claims there are no game console app stores. you are
talking about a barrier to entry. two different things entirely.

~~~
chaostheory
I think everyone can figure out that he was talking about how hard it is for a
small shop or lone developer to get their app on the big three console stores.

~~~
r0s
And yet, he has done nothing to investigate that idea.

~~~
gmrple
Why do you say that?

~~~
r0s
Because he didn't evaluate how hard it is for a small shop or lone developer
to get their app on the big three console stores, in any way. He's just
jumping to conclusions.

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niggler
"But when you've got an App Stores, you've got a race to the bottom."

Are game developers on i* competing on price in the same way? Or is the
pricing model different? I would claim that the console games' revenues are
front-loaded while i* games are back-loaded (many games include DLC for free,
whereas apple games end up monetizing through lots of DLC)

~~~
sjmulder
DLC (very slow progression otherwise), rewards for sharing, and low budget
production.

I prefer the Steam model myself. It fully embraces digital, and there are very
steep discounts regularly, but in general the prices remain healthy and once
you buy a game it’s yours without BS.

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asr2bd
I really hope that dev kits for the next gen consoles don't continue to be so
expensive. If I own the console, I should be able to develop on it.

I don't think Sony and Microsoft are unaware that small indie developed games
have been flooding the App Store. That being said, Apple has sold 410 million
iOS devices and has paid developers $5.5B (2012 numbers).

Apple makes an absurd amount of money from hardware, while Microsoft and Sony
sell their consoles at losses and need to make money back from software.

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estel
Doesn't Playstation Mobile count? It's an SDK and accompanying store for
publishing to the Vita and Playstation branded Android devices. I can
absolutely see them extending this to the PS4.

~~~
chaostheory
How cheap is it to start ie how much is the dev subscription and how much do
you have to pay for hardware?

~~~
estel
$99/year to publish on the Store (at the moment, they don't allow Free
applications).

SDK can be downloaded without paying.

Can develop on any Vita or certified Android device. (These:
<http://www.playstation.com/psm/certified.html>)

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carno
Playstation Mobile <http://www.playstation.com/psm/index_e.html>

No devkit, just download the SDK and run on your PC. It's free to try and
costs $100 year to deploy to devices and actually self publish your game.

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ChuckMcM
This is an interesting question. Another is when will TV's get an Android game
API "built in" like they have the "Netflix" and "Hulu" apps built in now. A
game framework, an online store of games, an in game purchase mechanism, and
one casino game. Blam the new world arrives.

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r0s
Nintendo is now officially selling AAA titles through the online store for
DSi/3DS.

~~~
rquirk
I wonder how well they are selling? In Europe they cost 45€ a game, and are
locked to that console (not to your account). I guess this is so as not to
annoy their retail partners - cartridges are a much better deal, can usually
be found cheaper online, and can be swapped amongst consoles.

Having said that, I have bought a couple of the cheaper "A" games that cost in
the 6-10€ range (V, Fallblox/Pushmo and another I've forgotten the name of).
Mostly due to the lack of good 3DS games so far.

~~~
r0s
I really liked Nano Assault. Gunman Clive just released and it's very good,
and only like $2.00.

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Hansi
With the changed in PSN+ over the last two years and the inclusion of all the
free games I'm sure in the next generation I'll just go for a PS4 and PSN+
yearly subscriptions and that will cover all my gaming needs.

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mtgx
These "next-gen" consoles are boring. And they seem to not only want to keep
the same old high prices, but also eliminate options like playing used games
(next xbox). For true next-gen gaming I'll be waiting for Steambox for its
affordable games and I assume it will have great support for Oculus Rift, too,
from day one.

