

Ergoemacs Keybindings - Xichekolas
http://code.google.com/p/ergoemacs/

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ajross
Some of the suggested bindings make sense to me. I especially like the
inverted-T cursor motion keys on I/J/K/L. And as much as I might hate to admit
it, the CUA-like cut/copy/paste bindings probably make more sense than the
default for anyone but a hardened emacs veteran.

Other stuff seems borderline insane. Like this design principle:

 _cursor moving commands are placed all for the right hand, while text
changing commands are all placed for the left hand. (similar to Dvorak having
all vowels in one side)_

Dvorak does that because vowels are usually typed alone in a word, so the
natural typing pattern is an alternation between hands, minimizing the chance
that a single finger might have to type two keys in succession, or a hand
might be left in a poor position for the new key. That's completely wrong for
this situation! A motion key is likely to be followed by more motion, while if
you're modifying text, you're likely to continue modifying text.

Or this one:

 _Alt is considered better than Ctrl. (Alt is a natural thumb curl, Ctrl is
stretched pinky._

This might be true on some keyboards. It certainly isn't on typical laptops,
where Alt almost _never_ lives in a consistent position across hardware.
Relying on keys without fixed positions is just bizarre, and in direct
contradiction to "ergonomics" to my mind. What's worse, this completely
ignores the pervasive practice among emacs users of mapping Ctrl to CapsLock,
a key which is extremely easy to type _and_ in the same location on all
keyboards.

On the whole, I just can't see these bindings actually helping me that much,
sorry. It's a good try, and I'm sure the author gets good use out of them. But
to my fingers, they introduce as many problems as they solve.

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Xichekolas
The first link in the description "Why Emacs's Keyboard Shortcuts Are Painful"
is a pretty good read. I initially tried to submit it, but it was autokilled
it seems.

Link: <http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html>

~~~
jrockway
I didn't realize I was clicking through to Xah's page, but I knew I was there
after only a few paragraphs.

I think he uses emacs as if it were MS Word or Notepad, and customizes his
emacs accordingly. That's fine for him, but there is value in the generally-
accepted defaults to other people. Control is not hard to type on a good
keyboard. C-n, C-p, C-b, and C-f are "unconventional", but very easy to type
and get used to. I must hit each combination hundreds of times a day, and my
fingers never hurt. (Because of that, anyway; the only time my fingers hurt is
when I have to type a lot of keys on the right pinky, ()+|`~=;':"?/ on my
keyboard. I have not found a good solution to this problem yet, but it is
certainly not specific to emacs.)

~~~
Xichekolas
Regarding the symbols, I have been playing with Programmer Dvorak lately. It
swaps the position of the symbols and numbers, such that you hit shift for the
numbers and get the symbols without shift. It also moves commonly used
programming symbols around so you use the first three fingers more, and avoid
the pinky.

You could do something similar without using dvorak of course.

Link to layout: <http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/>

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cwinters
Anyone using emacs would be well served by the Kinesis Ergo keyboard -- Ctrl
and Atl (and a bunch of others) are at your superstrong thumbs, not your wimpy
pinky:

<http://kinesis-ergo.com/contoured.htm>

~~~
Periodic
I remember reading about a study in the UK that found that the thumb had
replaced the index finger as the most dexterous digit among teens. This could
easily be attributed to mobile phones and video game controllers. It may not
be my most dexterous digit, but it certainly can do a lot. Just look at
texting speeds and almost any video game controller.

Why then is it relegated to only pushing the space bar? Is there some stigma
that it is that ham-handed and awkward? I would rejoice if I could do more
things with my thumbs, particularly modifiers, instead of making awkward pinky
reaches. The pinky really shouldn't be asked to do so much work.

Sadly, there is so much momentum behind the QWERTY keyboard that it won't be
going away any time soon, and alternate keyboards and layouts are limited to
enthusiasts, and the transition is awkward at that.

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goof
People always talk about making caps lock a ctrl key, but I've found making
right alt a ctrl is more comfortable. My thumb is far more dexterous than my
pinky. Unfortunately on many keyboards the right alt key is unusable due to
awkward positioning.

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dougharris
I think the big miss here is any reference to the sexp navigation functions --
forward-sexp and backward-sexp. These are very useful when programming.

I've been using emacs for close to 20 years. I've had more hand pain from too
much mouse use than I have with emacs' traditional shortcuts -- assuming the
control key is remapped to the caps lock location next to the "A" key.

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tezza
..:: Rebind CapsLock ::..

Windows users, use SmartKeys[1] to redefine CAPS LOCK to Left Control.

I makes the frequent use of the control combinations a lot more bearable.

\------------

[1] <http://www.randyrants.com/2008/12/sharpkeys_30.html>

~~~
jeffesp
Instead of a registry hack (that SmartKeys does), I use Ctrl2Cap -
[http://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/bb897578.asp...](http://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/bb897578.aspx). I used to do the registry hack manually, but
remember (although not specifically anymore) there were some issues with it
not working at certain times or in certain programs.

I don't use emacs anymore, but still find that C-x, C-c, C-v, and C-anything
is easier with this setup.

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dryicerx
Yes, The shortcuts are painful, countless times I've wished I had more fingers
per hand...

But I don't think this will be be any use for anyone who has gotten used to
the layout of emacs already... I know I wouldn't. Once those shortcuts are
hardwired to your brain, there is no going back. Plus if the shortcut ends up
being really too painful, most everyone would just adjust it in their .emacs.

But this is something I will definitely suggest any newcomers to emacs.

~~~
jerf
"Once those shortcuts are hardwired to your brain, there is no going back."

Tried it?

It's easier than you think.

A fun experiment: Take two keys and switch them, like s and a. See how long it
takes to adjust. In my experience, under an hour.

~~~
dryicerx
I've tried many times, and I really want to go back (because when I sit at a
vanilla emacs, sometimes it's hard to use it without my own customizations)

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rleisti
I've seen some people suggest hitting the ctrl key with the 'side' of your
hand instead of your pinky. I've found that using the bone directly below your
pinky (towards your palm) also works (at least in my case), and is fairly
comfortable.

I was inspired to do this by Aikido, where one of the techniques is a
pressure-point application using the bones on the inside of your hand to apply
specific pressure while holding someone's wrist in a grip.

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Wilfred
Ctrl or alt foot pedals are the way to go here -- using caps-lock is a
workaround but in proper typing I wish to use the modifier key on the other
hand to the letter.

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speek
now I'm re-considering the move to programmers dvorak... Everything is almost
100% there, but it's enough to bug you.

