
Google is sexy now (Tom Anderson) - duck
https://plus.google.com/112063946124358686266/posts/ZYS1fJQVkx2
======
marquis
Oh awesome, fake breasts. Way to attract the other 50%. And there are
complaints that g+ is male-dominated? This disappoints me.

My internal dialogue: "Great, now I'm either going to keep my opinion to
myself and move along, or speak out and be perceived as a hardlining
feminist". Goddamn, do I hate unthinking misogyny sometimes, I'm completely
sick of it and it's totally acceptable in a male-dominated forum where so many
other forms of isms have been classified as inadmissable. Reading the comments
was even more disturbing, as the scrolling arrays of men commenting on the
+00+ interspersed with only a few disapprovals from the women strong enough to
speak out about this in the public forum.

~~~
dpark
> _Reading the comments was even more disturbing, as the scrolling arrays of
> men commenting on the +00+ interspersed with only a few disapprovals from
> the women strong enough to speak out about this in the public forum._

There were quite a few women who commented and did not complain about the
picture.

> _Corina Newby - Google has always been sexy :)_

> _Lisa Bimmerz - Well, that's one way to spell "Google"! lol_

> _Corinne Maloney - I wouldn't consider myself a techie, but I've loved
> google since I started using it! :)_

> _Frederika Katuuk - this is sexy..lol_

Some did complain, however:

> _Diana McQueen - Wow. That a disgusting sexist image. If that's officially
> from Google, I'm terrible disappointed in them. There should be two women in
> lab coats standing next to a chiseled guy in a thong. Then maybe._

Of course, the image is disgusting but "a chiseled guy in a thong" would be
okay...

I'm all in favor of making software engineering a friendly place for women,
but this is not the way to do it. This is a post that someone made on their
personal Google+ site. It was not a statement from Google. It was not a Google
employee. It was not a conference speech. It was a guy who posted a sexy
picture to accompany his thoughts on making Google "sexy". Would it be okay if
he _had_ also posted a picture of a guy in a thong?

Trying to tell guys that they can never enjoy sexy images is not the way to
fix the gender inequality in the software field. That just breeds resentment.

~~~
erikpukinskis
_There were quite a few women who commented and did not complain about the
picture._

This comes up all the time when people call out sexism and it is not a valid
rebuttal.

Just because someone is a woman does not mean they are an expert in
recognizing sexism. Women tend to have more experience with sexism than men,
but many deny some or all kinds of sexism, many block it out (often a useful
and necessary defense mechanism), many have not spent much time learning about
sexism, and many are purveyors of sexism themselves.

In addition, the more sexist the subculture, the more it tends to A) attract
women who are more sexist, and B) filter out women who are more adversely
affected by sexism/lack strong sexism defense mechanisms.

 _"But [my wife/my girlfriend/group of women X] didn't think it was sexist"_
doesn't necessarily say anything conclusive about whether it is actually
sexist. If you are looking for an expert opinion, seek out the opinion of
someone who has spent time learning about how sexism works. Your
wife/girlfriend/group of women X may or may not be in that category. There are
more women than men in that group, but having a vagina does not gain you
instant entry.

~~~
dpark
> _This comes up all the time when people call out sexism and it is not a
> valid rebuttal._

It's a perfectly valid rebuttal to someone who tries to make claims about
women as a whole. Marquis made a comment about "disapprovals from the women
strong enough to speak out". The implication there is that all women are
offended and only the strong ones dare to speak out. Clearly it is not true
that all women were offended. Many (most?) of the women who commented did not
complain, and several commented positively about the picture.

> _"But [my wife/my girlfriend/group of women X] didn't think it was sexist"
> doesn't necessarily say anything conclusive about whether it is actually
> sexist. If you are looking for an expert opinion, seek out the opinion of
> someone who has spent time learning about how sexism works. Your
> wife/girlfriend/group of women X may or may not be in that category. There
> are more women than men in that group, but having a vagina does not gain you
> instant entry._

This is a candy-coated way of saying that we must listen to those most zealous
about sexism. We can't listen to the average woman or the opinion of most
women. No, we have to listen to those obsessed with finding sexism, even if
that means they find it in places it doesn't really exist.

Why must _sexy_ always be synonymous with _sexist_? These are two different
things. Lack of sexism does not imply a lack of sexual interest (nor vice
versa).

~~~
erikpukinskis
_we have to listen to those obsessed with finding sexism_

There are people who have cancer, people who treat cancer, and people who do
cancer research, and there is a time and a place to listen to each. The same
for sexism. If you're mindful of this you'll be fine.

~~~
dpark
When the people you're listening to are "finding" cancer everywhere they look,
one might be wise to start listening to someone else.

~~~
JulianMorrison
Or consider that your privilege has blinded you and
sexism/patriarchy/kyriarchy _is_ awfully damn pervasive.

~~~
dpark
Come now, these aren't exclusive possibilities. There certainly is a lot of
sexism in society. That doesn't change the fact that some people will find
sexism where it is not actually present.

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whalesalad
Google+ is not sexy. No one thinks Facebook is sexy. My mom doesn't think it's
sexy. My mom doesn't think the electrical company is sexy either. Neither does
my sister, or my girlfriend, or my roommate. They are all tools for
communication and some are better than others.

I think most of this Google+ noise is just fanboys who are glad to have
something new. I'm all for competition but Google+, to me, is not very
impressive at all.

I'll use whatever tool those people I mentioned above are using... because
that's all that really matters.

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username3
The woman in the photo commented, _Steph L Davis - +Tom Anderson Tom - I'm sad
you used this pic :(_

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bhickey
I'm glad that Tom won't be one of my co-workers at Google.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2807796>

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9999
I'm not really sure what the word "sexy" has to do with a giant multinational
corporation.

Is this creep speak for "Google is receiving more positive esteem from random
members of society due to its recent emphasis on slight aesthetic improvements
across its product line?"

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nextparadigms
Excellent article. I've also noticed that Google+ is giving Google new life,
and it's like they're starting over. They're redesigning all their products
and services with the Google+ style, and hopefully Android 4.0 will get a bit
of this style this fall, and they're going to integrate Google+ across all
their services.

Because of Google+, they're starting to become a "media darling" once again,
and they look better even if the eyes of some bloggers that love Apple. I
think we'll see a more positive tone overall on the web about Google from now
on.

