
Training the Brain to Eat Less Sugar - furcyd
https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2019/May/brain-train-diet-game/
======
nindalf
For the first 3.5 months of this year I was completely off artificial sugar.
That meant fruit was ok, but any kind of dessert wasn't. It was hard initially
but after a couple of weeks it was easy. I didn't feel the craving to eat
dessert like I always did. I also felt much better and more productive now
that my insulin levels were more stable than before. On my previous diet I had
regular sugar highs and lows (which of course meant more sugar), and it was
great to be rid of that.

If anyone wants to try this and finds it too difficult initially, please stick
to it for at least two weeks! It gets easier!

~~~
johnkpaul
Awesome, congrats! I'm at 2.5 years of no artificial and as close to 0
"natural sugar" as possible. I don't have any fruit and I don't drink milk but
have the lactose in cheese sometimes. I also have tomatoes sometimes so there
is a little glucose in that. Generally, if I could, I'd have 0 -ose
completely.

It's done wonders for my A1C and weight. It definitely gets easier after the
original weaning. Now it doesn't even take thought or effort and I have no
regrets at all.

~~~
edraferi
One interesting milk option is Fairlife. It's processed to have more protein
and no lactose [0]. Some health bloggers object to the process, here's a
summary [1]. Overall I think it's a solid product.

[0] [https://fairlife.com/our-nutrition/](https://fairlife.com/our-nutrition/)

[1]
[https://www.stephshares.com/healthyeating/966/](https://www.stephshares.com/healthyeating/966/)

~~~
johnkpaul
Thanks! I've heard of this but never really researched it. I don't object to
the process but I drink carageenan free heavy cream to achieve a similar
taste/texture with no protein.

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amriksohata
Watch the Fed Up documentary, how sugar is more addictive than cocaine in
mice, how 80% of food products in US supermarkets have added sugar. Its nearly
impossible trying to train yourself to moderate your sugar, its better to
avoid it altogether as your body sugar level (GI) spikes causes withdrawal
later. Our body does not need any refined sugar. Fruits are ok, avoid fruit
juices as they often either have added or sugar or miss the fibre which helps
your body slow down digestion.

~~~
VLM
"how 80% of food products in US supermarkets have added sugar."

The other 20% have added artificial sweeteners that taste awful. (edited to
note I hate the taste and idea of products that are heavily marketed as "no
added sugar" that are dosed with megatons of suralose or similar)

You pretty much HAVE to go homemade paleo style food. Luckily that kind of
food can be delicious and easy to make and cheap... A big salad with a modest
side of meat, a stir fry made with a bag of frozen veggies and chopped meat,
classic meat and veggies, meat and spices in a slow cooker, etc.

~~~
slfnflctd
I have no problems with artificial sweeteners and have used them for over a
decade (mostly in beverages). I believe it improved my health. Eating too much
real sugar isn't even that enjoyable now, and usually makes me feel sick.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
I recently reduced my pop to a friday afternoon one can treat, but before that
I drank exclusively diet drinks - I got so used to it that drinking a full
sugar coke was sickly sweet.

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ZeroFries
There's actually not that much evidence moderate sugar intake is bad for you,
at all. All this talk about "sugar" swings is completely off base, IMO,
especially considering most starches are much higher on the GI and II scales
than sugars. Fructose is low GI, and most of it is converted to glucose in the
gut, anyway. Higher consumption is converted to fat, but most vilifying sugars
promote fat, so what's the difference? If anyone can link me evidence that
moderate sugar intake promotes worse blood sugar regulation (compared to
saturated fat, especially) in healthy, non-diabetic populations, would love to
see it.

FWIW, I've had anywhere from <30g total carbs in my diet, to moderate
sugar/carb intake, to very high (300+g sugar [mostly from fruit], 500+ carb)
diets. The very low carb diets were the worst for my energy levels (and yes, I
did intake plenty of electrolytes, and was on it for 12+ weeks). Moderate carb
feels best, to me, as an active, healthy body-weight male, for what anecdotal
evidence is worth.

~~~
will_brown
>If anyone can link me evidence that moderate sugar intake promotes worse
blood sugar regulation (compared to saturated fat, especially) in healthy,
non-diabetic populations, would love to see it.

I think you should reframe this...and ask if anyone can link evidence of a
case of type 2 diabeties or non alcoholic fatty liver disease where the
patient didn’t consume sugar/carbs (those cases don’t exist).

I think historically type 2 diabeties being called adult onset diabeties shows
that even life long moderate consumption of carbs/sugars leads to type 2 in
many individuals who were “healthy” in their younger years. Moreover, for many
people type 2 was just a natural progression, it’s not like historically
everyone with type 2 began over consuming carbs/sugar later in life.

~~~
ZeroFries
The vast majority of the population eats sugar and carbs, so it's not
surprisingly the majority of diabetics consume them, too. Moreover, there are
plenty of populations which consume very high carb diets who don't suffer from
diabetes.

~~~
will_brown
>so it's not surprisingly the majority of diabetics consume them

No, not a majority, every single patient with T2D has consumed them, whereas a
majority could reverse diabeties by cutting them.

Medically it is undisputed T2D could have been avoided in 100% of cases
through diet and exercise. Do other factors contribute (obesity, genetics,
etc...)? Yes, but notwithstanding those issues still 100% of T2D cases could
have been avoided (unfortunately not 100% can be reversed).

Sure people can consume high carb diets live long healthy lives, no one is
saying 100% of people who eat carbs/sugar get diabetes, but 100% of patients
that get T2D consumed sugar/carbs.

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johnkpaul
At what stage, if any, are we going to call sugar an addiction? "Craving"
being the word used here is very obviously an indicator of the strength here
and there are negative consequences to having too much. I don't know what
other leaps need to be made to formalize the addiction category.

~~~
Nasrudith
The problem with those criteria is we would need to ask at what stage are we
going to call water an addiction? It also fufills those details. Really just
because it can be classified as an addiction doesn't mean it should.

The real criteria of concern is "does it cause problems /in this case/".

Otherwise you end up with a hysterical neo-puritanism of trying to create a
perfect life by excision of all vices.

~~~
johnkpaul
I don't agree, but I also don't know the formalisms around addiction to
articulate my argument precisely.

I have never heard of water intoxication happening with growing frequency over
decades. I have also not heard of water intoxication having support groups,
nor of water being described as a craving.

Additionally, there are no humans that have lived without water for years of
their life. I have lived without sucrose for years of my life and I expect
that there are others as well.

~~~
johnkpaul
I really wish the downvoters would comment as well. I don't know what I said
here that was so wrong. I am very open to critique here. I want to learn what
other people think to refine how I think about it.

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chriselles
I’ve cut sugar out of my diet almost completely(bar trace amounts and the rare
cheat treat).

23kg loss sustained over 16 months on a modified keto diet.

Cutting out sugar has been a game changer for me.

~~~
msiyer
I eat mostly fruits, very little vegetables and cooked grains. I have lost 10+
kgs in the past 6 months. I was not obese, but could lose some weight.

Refined sugars are detrimental for health. Whole fruits and their sugars are
great!

~~~
sprash
Fruits are actually full of sugar. Just because they are not "refined" doesn't
mean those sugars are not harmful. They are essentially the same molecules
(most prominent: saccharose, fructose, glucose).

Bananas are especially bad. Blackberry, Raspberry and Strawberry are OK even
thou they have a sweeter taste in my opinion.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
No one had ever demonstrated fruit intake as harmful. Fruit intake is strongly
positively correlated with healthy outcomes.

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brownbat
From the actual study:

"8-week weight losses for ICT were 3.1% vs. 2.2% for sham. A marginally
significant effect was observed for gamification to reduce the impact of ICT."

This seems like a small effect for eight weeks of work. And gamification
backfiring makes me worry this is all noise.

~~~
benj111
Didn't see any mention of a control, so could just be down to the classes
beforehand. Nevertheless 2%-3% weight loss without 'dieting' is surely good,
it's at least additive to normal dieting, and perhaps even more effective in
that it can help in overcoming craving.

Plus what rate of weight loss do you think is acceptable. Losing 25% of your
bodyweight in a week may be the 'in thing', but it isn't necessarily healthy
or sustainable.

~~~
brownbat
> Plus what rate of weight loss do you think is acceptable.

Great question, I estimated the math before the last post but let me unpack it
so people can correct me.

If a man is avg US height of 5'9" with an obese BMI of 35 and weight of 240,
then 0.5% to 2% each week would fit standard medical guidelines for effective
dieting.

At that weight you can easily fluctuate by 1% each day.

So we have an eight week effect that is in total less than 1% over sham, a
difference on par with standard daily noise and reasonable weekly goal. This
is why there's a replication crisis in health research.

Also, sham is a misleading control here if we're actually interested in weight
loss. Why not control for any diet at all? Even use the same time each day
going for a walk, or probably even meditating on weight loss strategies, at
this improvement rate the advantage will melt away. Sham is defensible if you
don't actually care about weight loss, but in that case weight shouldn't be
your metric. Best case is it's a horribly misleading study design.

------
louthy
I have a super sweet tooth and have become more and more concerned about it as
I get older. One thing that I am really bad at is any kind of conscious diet
or regime, I am just not regimented with anything really.

So, I tried the big-bang and did a 4 day fast - my theory being, well, treat
it like a drug addiction and go 'cold turkey'. It worked. I massively cut down
on my sugar intake because I didn't feel like I needed sugar (for about 3
months).

Over time as I've had sugary foods it's definitely come back, and so I'll
probably try again. But I found it quite interesting how quickly I could reset
myself to a state where my body didn't crave it.

Obviously, fasting isn't for everyone, and long fasts you should make sure you
know what you're doing, but it was a serious eye opener.

~~~
msiyer
Try satiating your "refined sugars craving" with fruits. Not juice, but whole
fruits.

Taste will reset itself within a week. This has been my personal experience.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
There are also a plethora of sugar free or low sugar processed foods to look
into. Some of them use sugar alcohols or some artificial sweetener that might
have some adverse effects, but they are fairly effective as a better
substitute when you are otherwise craving a candy bar or a mocha.

Fruits, some are better than others, depending on how much fiber they have.

~~~
msiyer
Please stay away from artificial sugars. We have no idea what diseases they
might be causing.

~~~
reallytho9
I use artificial sweeteners when I try to cut back on sugar. A few grams of
aspartame is probably much less damaging than 40+ grams of sugar. I’m willing
to take that gamble.

~~~
maxxxxx
I use quite a bit of stevia. It has a weird taste first but you get used to it
quickly.

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flyGuyOnTheSly
>Think: Lumosity for your diet.

I am surprised that an educational institution is comparing their new program
to a company who deceived consumers on scientific claims.

------
eswat
Glad to see more treading into using games to reinforce _beneficial_
behaviours.

If only the resources we were pumping into making lootbox games could start
being diverted into projects like this.

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WMCRUN
I phased out sugar by setting a daily goal and then progressively lowering it.
I started at 40g max per day (the reccomended limit) and then treated it like
a game to find other sources of sugar in my diet. I now get about 5g /day from
things like oatmeal and Brussels sprouts (even some vegetables have sugar).
It’s not for everyone but it’s changed my life.

~~~
uxcolumbo
How did it change your life?

So it's not just the processed / refined sugar you're reducing, it's sugar
from all foods?

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xvilka
Just do keto-diet, and sugar addiction will dissolve pretty quickly.

~~~
mweibel
I hear about keto so often that it must be the best thing ever, however I have
no idea what it even is and I got curious!

Do you have some links/articles which describe what it is and what
positive/negative things can come out of it?

~~~
busymom0
I have done Keto myself and personally I would not recommend it. I would
actually love to do keto forever as I love eating meat but it will pretty much
ruin most of your social eating out habits unless you are okay with not going
out for things like Sushi (not eating rolls), ice cream etc. I also do
powerlifting and my calorie requirements are much higher. Strength wise, my
strength took a dip initially but it mostly came back after about 1-2 weeks.
But my endurance was absolutely horrible (this is due to your body having to
first convert the fats to glycogen, then using the energy instead of readily
available carb sourced glycogen).

Anyway, I personally did it for about 2 months and even though I enjoyed it, I
would not recommend it for most people. I tried it because I don't like
dissing something without trying it first, so I put myself on Keto for 2
months to see what it was all about. I would recommend the same - try it for
about 2 months and then decide it for yourself. Note that you will have to
bear through the first 1-2 weeks of brain fogginess and low energy as your
body adapts to it. But once that's over and you are in Ketosis, you will feel
much better. Another thing to be careful about is that your body will go out
of ketosis very easily if you eat carbs (ice cream for example). Don't use it
as a way to lose body weight as most of the weight people lose is actually
water weight due to the lack of carbs based glycogen.

I would recommend this Jeff Nippard's YouTube video on Keto too:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxmVsT_ZeNs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxmVsT_ZeNs)

~~~
sma222k0n
2 Months is absolutely nothing in Ketogenic diet, what you've likely
experienced in those two months was mostly the transitioning side-effects from
carbs to fat, it takes at least 6-12 months to be fully fat-adapted
(mitochondrial changes) especially if you're an athlete.(See Ultra runner Zach
Bitter)

~~~
busymom0
I guess you could be right but for me, I couldn't afford 6-12 months of low
endurance as I was about to start a specific workout program which also needed
me to be in caloric surplus and have high endurance. Maybe I would try it out
again in the future.

But another main reason as I pointed out was that Keto was severely limiting
my social eating habits. I personally did not do it for losing body fat, I did
it mostly to see how it is. I still loved eating out with friends - things
like sushi rolls, ice cream etc. Keto wasn't allowing me those things.

I would actually love to do keto because I love eating meat (steak), butter,
avocados etc but right now isn't the right time for me from a social point of
view.

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forgot_old_user
Oh where can I get this game

~~~
leowoo91
Any grocery near you. Sum up the sugar content on packages and subtract that
from 100, let that be your point :)

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killjoywashere
I want _that_ in augmented reality! Can you imagine!

