

Windows Phone doubles share in Europe, trails iPhone by only 1% in Germany - rl12345
http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/30/windows-phone-doubles-share-in-europe-trails-iphone-by-only-1-in-germany/

======
acchow
This is share of sales in the last 3 months, not share of devices in the wild.
It's no surprise that iPhone's sales share plummeted the last quarter before
the 5S release.

~~~
superails
I think it is the Nokia Lumia 1020/EOS, which I've heard is more of a sham
than marketing would lead you to believe. I have to admit when I've seen the
commercials, I wanted one also.

~~~
acchow
"more of a sham than marketing would lead you to believe"

In what sense? Some very reliable reviewers (e.g. Brian Klug) say the camera
truly is incredible...

~~~
superails
5MP downsample, resolution falls well short of what a 38MP camera should
(theoretically) be capable of, runs windows phone 8 (fewer apps), phone has
awkward shape not shown in commercials, low screen resolution, and as the
following review puts it:

[http://www.everyjoe.com/2013/07/13/technology/nokia-
lumia-10...](http://www.everyjoe.com/2013/07/13/technology/nokia-
lumia-1020-sucks-review/)

"You might think that despite all of these negatives, at least the Lumia 1020
blows all other phones out of the water when it comes to the camera. You’d be
wrong. There’s a noticeable lag when between taking a picture, saving it, and
being able to take another picture. The Lumia 1020 comes with three different
camera apps, each with their own function, so good luck figuring out what does
what. Annoyingly, every photo you take has an on-screen caption that reminds
you which app took the photo, but at least it doesn't show up in the picture
itself"

~~~
spongle
Please don't spout the "fewer apps" rubbish.

Debian has fewer apps. Ubuntu has fewer apps. Does this mean anything? No.

I actually only use three "apps" that aren't built in on my WP8 device.

~~~
acchow
It does have fewer apps. No instagram, vine, youtube, dropbox, G+ hangouts
(really important for a lot of software engineers), tripadvisor offline city
guides, starbucks app, airline check-in from many carriers (United
surprisingly does have)...

That was just going through the main homescreens on my Android.

> I actually only use three "apps" that aren't built in on my WP8 device.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... You can't use apps that don't
exist, so it's not surprising at all to me that you "only use three apps" that
aren't built into the device...

~~~
infinite_snoop
I have a Win 8 tablet and the app store is a complete joke. I don't think the
"use the browser" argument really holds any water. Lots of UX features are
only really available when you go the native route, i.e the new "picture in
picture" feature in the Android Youtube app.

~~~
miguelrochefort
Windows 8 is not Windows Phone 8.

------
Touche
As the article points out, has to be the low to mid-range phones. The Lumia
520 costs $100 off contract, which is an amazing deal.

~~~
drill_sarge
Don't forget iPhones are way more expensive here (in EU) than in the US.

------
Gustomaximus
Windows Mobile market share is a long way off 8.8% according to Statcounter:
[http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-DE-
monthly-201209-20130...](http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-DE-
monthly-201209-201309)

That said I could believe the sales growth as Nokia are know for making great
quality low end devices so there could be traction gained here as the allure
of flagship phones is not as appealing/affordable for all as base technology
improves.

IMO the best thing WM could do is create a phone that works more as a mobile
base station for all your computing in the way Ubuntu Touch are attempting.
The latter launching in a couple of weeks. Can't wait to try it out!

~~~
pedalpete
There may be something funky with Statcounter, when looking at North America,
they show Blackberry as doubling it's growth since May, doesn't seem like the
most reliable source. [http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-na-
monthly-201209-20130...](http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-na-
monthly-201209-201309)

Also, its Windows Phone, or WP, not Windows Mobile.

~~~
OrwellianChild
This is consistent with product launches... Blackberry released the Z10
smartphone in May 2013. The Statcounter data tracks usage, which would
plausibly go up quite a bit with new users on a phone with more fully-featured
internet access.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Z10](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Z10)

------
ohwp
I've got the feeling the iPhone lost its cool here in the Netherlands.
Suddenly the buzz is all about Nokia and HTC while Samsung and Apple are
becoming less popular.

And I think I can understand why. The Nokia 520 is a great device for under €
170. And the HTC has a great screen, stereo sound and a very smooth designed
Android version.

~~~
mercer
I'm thinking that perhaps the temporary (but lengthy) period in which the
iPhone was the most popular phone was, for the most part, an aberration.

Apple generally just does it's thing where it doesn't go for the largest
market share, but because they were unusually innovative/lucky with the
iPhone, they had a period of popularity. The fact that the iPhone 5C isn't the
cheap phone we expected seems to confirm this.

It seems quite possible that things are 'normalizing' again, and Apple will
end up comfortably occupying a big chunk of the high-end space. Maybe they're
trying to come up with another killer product category to dominate in, but I
wouldn't be surprised if internally this isn't and hasn't ever been their
goal.

Now, investors might feel different, of course, and I find that interesting to
observe.

~~~
Tloewald
What's amazing to me is how apple has resisted the temptation to go for market
share with the iphone. That said, apple got and sustained a dominant share of
the music player business against everyone's expectations and without
compromising on quality (although i don't see apple doing an iphone shuffle).

It might be that microsoft's success with windows was the aberration. After
all DOS and then windows were inferior products that achieved critical mass
and widespread success because IBM got them into the enterprise and apple was
asleep at the wheel.

~~~
mercer
Hmm. I think much of Microsoft's success has more to do with the fact that
Apple's emphasis on simplicity in design, ease of use, and computer-as-a-
lifestyle-product has only recently started paying off, as computers have
become more mainstream and provide 'lifestyle value'.

I remember growing up a really shoddy looking computer in the house, but
nobody cared or wanted better because it was in my dad's office and mostly
used for work (and only occasionally for a game or two).

------
sgloutnikov
Shouldn't be such a surprise to anyone. Nokia has always done well in Europe.
It's a trusted, recognized brand, with lots of credibility, and they had
actually just started to deliver again (Lumia 1020 & amazing lower end
phones). The road-map for windows phone looks good too.

I will admit--I have owned Windows Phones (now a 1020) only because of Nokia,
and I am content with them. Sure the 1020 doesn't have all the bells and
whistles from a software perspective, but the hardware is amazing and WP8 has
been out for only a year. Really interesting to see how things will go with
the Microsoft buy-out in the next 1-2 years. Some key people leaving, etc.

PS. I have grown up with the legend of the "indestructible Nokia" that cannot
be killed. Let's see if Microsoft can do it.

~~~
Alterlife
I've been using a Lumia 620 for the last three months, and I have really tried
to like it.

Switched back to my 2 year old android ZTE blade with a cracked screen two
days ago. I feel like I just got an upgrade.

Nokia used to make great phones... and I still love the hardware. but the
windows phone package leaves much to be desired.

~~~
inoop
I'll trade you a working blade for that 620. Your choice of white, black, or
gray. I even have an OLED screen lying around :)

~~~
Alterlife
In an ideal world where cost of a product is directly linked to the actual
value it delivers... I would have gladly taken that offer ;) .

~~~
inoop
If it's just the plastic that's cracked:

[http://dx.com/p/genuine-zte-v880-touch-screen-black-
random-s...](http://dx.com/p/genuine-zte-v880-touch-screen-black-random-
style-109916)

------
Tyrannosaurs
So WP seems to be taking market share from which seems to be almost
exclusively from "Other" (presumably Win Mobile and BB).

iOS and Android are largely either growing or holding steady (varies by
country - Android could be seen as flat lining but then you look at China
where it had 9% growth which suggests that might be a bit of a premature
accusation).

So, we seem to have a market place with three players - Android, iOS and
Windows Phone.

The question is can the market support that or will there be a drive to a
single platform?

Personally it feels I can do most of what I do without worrying what device I
have in front of me or what it's running and I don't think twice what device
someone else has before e-mailing them, sending them a document or whatever.
The days of having to use something similar to someone else to be able to
interact seem long gone.

So it seems to come down to whether any particular platform can remain
profitable for it's owner, for device makers and for software developers.
Right now the answer to that seems to be yes for Android and iOS and maybe for
WP, but it doesn't feel like there's any reason to believe that there's any
inevitability about any of them dying out.

------
leggo2m
Microsoft PR department trying real hard in recent days trying to drum up some
positive press.

~~~
Avitas
Customer: "Our global market share is a pimple on the ass of our competitors.
Are there any numbers ANYWHERE that can make us look like, at the least, a
full-blown cyst?"

Marketing Exec: "Sure, let's look at the numbers. US...no. EU...no. Asia...no.
Africa...no. Middle East...no. Austral--"

Customer: "Stop. Just stop."

Marketing Exec: "It's okay, getting your message and name out there is far
more important than the actual numbers. Plus, we'll find positive numbers and
trends that we'll plaster in the occasional release. We also still have the
stats on individual countries to go through."

Customer: "Okay, let's go down the list and pick some. We've got our
astroturfing contractor waiting."

------
smegel
Is this because Android is more dominant than both of them?

------
biehl
A less misleading headline would probably be "Windows Phone sales in the last
3 months double in Europe. Share of new sales trails iPhone by only 1% in
Germany"

~~~
huxley
Or perhaps, "Windows Phone sales in the last 3 months double in Europe based
on estimate derived from interviews of consumers"

Cite: [http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/30/windows-phone-doubles-
shar...](http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/30/windows-phone-doubles-share-in-
europe-trails-iphone-by-only-1-in-germany/)

"... reflects the latest three months of actual smartphone sales, which the
research company gets by interviewing actual consumers."

------
zyb09
This must be bullshit. Not that I have scientific evidence, but as a app
developer I got quite good at identifying a device type just by having a quick
glance at it and that's what I usually do to keep me busy in public transport
and other places. What I see is about 50% iPhones, the majority being iPhone
4, not so many 4S, but also quite a few iPhone 5. Next up are Samsung phones
of all kinds, with the prevalent being S3, S2 and low budget ones like the
Ace. Not so many S4 though yet. HTC and everything else are kind of the
underdog. And very rarely someone pulls out a BlackBerry. But Windows Phone? I
think I've seen one so far. I don't doubt there are out there, but comparing
the share with the iPhone is ridiculous.

~~~
spongle
Your average Starbucks in London, UK over the last month seems to have the
following market share: couple of ipads, single iphone, couple of Samsung
android handsets and a lot of windows phones, all Lumia. To be honest I'm
quite surprised myself even as a WP user. You see chromebooks a lot as well.
Not seen a single surface (yet).

As a side point, I get a lot of people ask me what to buy after they threw
£450 on a 4S and broke it (I'm the local informal tech advice guy for the
school my kids go to's population of parents). The iphone doesn't have a great
reputation in the UK after the first purchase from experience: it's expensive,
unreliable (icloud is a piece of crap) and breaks easily and every repair
place is dodgy including the apple stores here. This makes it a really bad
investment. I don't suggest a solution in particular but people come back with
Lumia handsets over new iPhones as they are much cheaper and are functionally
equivalent. Either that or they buy a shit android and hate it.

~~~
JonoW
Yeah I'm in London too, have seen a noticeable uptick in the number of Lumia's
recently.

~~~
codeulike
Yep, can confirm too. Those bright coloured Nokias are easy to spot and I saw
a lot more of them over the summer.

~~~
weavie
I spotted one in Exeter yesterday!

------
ZeroGravitas
I guess "trails Android by only 70% in Germany" wasn't considered a catchy
enough headline.

A 5 point increase from last year is certainly positive, but I think Microsoft
is going to spend a lot of money to sustain that, and it's only going to get
harder when they stop using the Nokia brand for smartphones.

Whatever Nokia was asking for those rights, Microsoft should probably have
paid.

------
babuskov
Since when is 80% increase "doubling"?

Still, getting close to 10% of market share is really a "massive achievement".
I did not expect that. I wonder what was the main reason for people to buy it.
I mean, if you're not a programmer/developer and you enter the store and see
Lumia, SGS4 and iPhone4/5, how does the average customer select?

~~~
miguelrochefort
Windows Phone is simpler and more consistent than any of them.

------
jonemo
Weird way of reporting the stats (as others in this thread seem to imply) or
not, just walking around in Germany is enough to realize that Windows Phone is
comparatively popular there. It's very present both in real users' hands and
advertising. I wonder if focusing on ROTW markets is Microsoft's strategy.

------
qwerta
Windows Phone are actually very good if you want 'no apps, just phone'.

~~~
tsotha
If you don't want apps, why are you paying more than about $30 for your
mobile?

~~~
thomasz
for the browser, map, skype and facebook.

~~~
tsotha
Aren't those apps?

~~~
jacalata
Not by most common sense definitions, no. Here's a simple one for you: if you
don't need to use the app store to get it, it's not an app.

~~~
ygra
Then Facebook and Skype do count as apps, I guess. (Unless I uninstalled
Facebook without ever launching it and it came preinstalled. I may not
remember.)

------
zmmmmm
It would be sad if the only thing giving them even that share is the Nokia
brand and perception that it's European. MS may have killed off the only thing
Windows Phone actually had going for it in europe.

------
cremnob
Interesting to note that iOS gained share in the US by 5.4% while Android
declined by 5.6% in a quarter without new iPhones launching.

There may be some truth to Horace Dediu's hypothesis that Android has peaked
in the US.

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Topsteed
It's because Europeans are a bunch of idiots. They're dumb enough to let gays
ruin their society and their dumb enough to use Windows Phone instead of the
vastly superior iPhone.

There's no news here, no surprise.

~~~
ethana
How are these kind of commenters even exist on hacker news?

~~~
kintamanimatt
Well, anybody can register for an account and no community is immune from
trolls. They don't last long here though and there's some pretty decent
moderation that happens both by the mods and the community itself.

