
RSI as a Developer - mulholio
https://jmulholland.com/rsi-as-a-developer
======
orpheansodality
Disclaimer: RSI can have many different causes and what works for any one
person may not work for someone (or anyone) else. But here is what worked for
me:

I had completely debilitating RSI in both arms for years, eventually getting
to the point where I was using Dragon Naturally speech recognition for any
computer interaction, and a hamfisted stylus for using my phone since actually
using fingers with any dexterity hurt too much.

On my better days typing for short periods was ok, but any interaction with a
mouse was immediately painful. Once I discovered I could use a trackball mouse
on the floor with my feet I was able to get back to a point where I could work
professionally again. But if I ever went too far I would be out for at least
the next few days without being able to do much.

A year or two after I realized that the pain was generally worse when my arms
were cold. After some experimentation I found that almost all of the active-
use pain went away when I kept my arms warm.

Since then I've been able to get back into the full swing of things. I'm
consigned to always be wearing sweaters, jackets, and hoodies while working,
but that has been a small price to pay for being productive again.

Any time I forget and use a computer bare-armed it comes right back again, but
so far keeping them warm has been the silver bullet for me. If you're at the
end of your rope give it a try!

~~~
thestepafter
I have had pain in my wrists and arms for a years now. After spending tens of
thousands of dollars on physical therapy and massages I saw a comment in a
post from a couple days ago about keeping your arms warm. I just bought these
([https://www.rei.com/product/119280/pearl-izumi-elite-
thermal...](https://www.rei.com/product/119280/pearl-izumi-elite-thermal-arm-
warmers)) today and OH MY GOODNESS the difference is immediately noticeable.

------
codingdave
I had RSI that was so bad I did stop coding for a year, went through physical
therapists, doctors, and finally surgery, and I have one piece of advice to
everyone:

Ask a doctor. There are far more variations of RSI than most people know.
Taking someone else's advice may work, but you may be trying something that
fixed a problem you do not have.

My problem ended up being a genetic variation in the structure of the tendon
sheaths in my wrist. Many people have it, but if you fall in the middle of the
Venn diagram of people with this problem and people who type a lot, it is a
problem. Surgery was the only answer to fix it, in my case.

Again, my case will surely be different than yours. For many other people,
ergonomics are all that is needed. But ask someone who specializes in these
things. They can save you a lot of time and trouble.

~~~
xabotage
Could you elaborate on this specific genetic condition? I, like many I'm sure,
have been tossed back and forth from one clueless doctor to the next, none of
whom have even an inkling about what RSI is, much less ways to treat it that
don't involve blindly prescribing one drug after another. Does this condition
have a specific name and/or type of specialist qualified to diagnose it? It
definitely sounds like something worth exploring, but I wouldn't want to seek
surgery yet if neither I nor my prospective doctor are familiar enough with
this tendon sheath condition (this is the first time I've heard of it myself)

~~~
codingdave
To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone reading this actually has the same
problem as I did. Odds are, it is something else. The point is to ask a doctor
who can help diagnose exactly which RSI you may have. That being said...

De Quervain's tenosynovitis was my RSI. But not all cases of that are the same
anomaly as I had - this RSI is a case where the tendon sheath through which 2
tendons slide becomes inflamed. My specific root cause of it is that my sheath
was bisected, making two sheaths, so there was less room for the tendons, and
once inflamed, it just wouldn't heal. So the fix was to cut it open to make
room. Sounds mildly barbaric, but it worked. Almost literally overnight.

No doctor will tell you to go for surgery for this, or any other RSI,
immediately. Surgery is always the last answer. I ended up at a surgeon who
specializes in wrists, but started with my family doc, then a physical
therapist. If your family doc is not helping... which it sounds like they are
not, seek out a wrist specialist.

Try what they suggest. Let them know if it doesn't work. But go sooner rather
than later - these things can be fixed easier if you get help before it gets
bad.

------
rgbrenner
I once had RSI so bad I could barely type for over a year.

I swear by these mice: [https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-
trackball-m5...](https://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-
trackball-m570) You don't move your hand.. just rest your hand on it and
lightly move your thumb by less than an inch in any direction (half inch
typically.. if you're moving it much more than that, increase your pointer
speed). There are ball mice that use your middle fingers, but I find those put
stress on the tendons on the top of your hand.

Add a keyboard that requires very little force to press the keys. I use this
one (without the number pad).. it's decent:
[https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-
us/products/keyboar...](https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-
us/products/keyboards/sculpt-ergonomic-desktop/l5v-00001) I don't know that
the split in the keyboard matters all that much.. I think the pressure
required to press the keys is the most important. Buy whatever kb you like
with soft keys.

I also have an articulating keyboard tray: [https://www.amazon.com/Bush-
Business-Furniture-Articulating-...](https://www.amazon.com/Bush-Business-
Furniture-Articulating-Keyboard/dp/B0000C0XP5) That lets you move the tray in
every direction (back&forth, up&down, side to side, and tilt angle) so you can
position the keyboard where it's suppose to be. Add a computer chair.. and you
can position everything... even if your posture, etc isn't the best it could
be every day.

~~~
mulholio
Agreed that the split keyboard doesn't really make a difference for RSI. It
helped my shoulders far more than my hands/wrists. That said, the extra
angling that many split keyboards give you is pretty nice, even if it's not
the split itself that helps.

------
tempguy9999
I was off work with it for literally years so I guess I'm an expert. WRT my
own body anyway. Here's my advice.

All the fancy keyboard make no difference if you type too much. Pre RSI I'd
type out some code, consider it carefully, rewrite it, reconsider and rewrite.
Only then would it be run. It multiplied up the amount of typing I'd do. Now
I'll think it through before putting hand on keyboard. No experience with
dvorak but logically less typing must beat a 'better' layout.

Emails are shorter now. Just practice getting to the point. Writing docs, I
used the dragon voice recognition. It works acceptably when trained, though
that is not a quick and painless process.

I have a kinesis keyboard and its splitting/tilting don't help. But, because
it lacks a number pad to the right it means I can place my trackball closer,
so less risk of shoulder stress from reaching further out sideways. That's
very worth it.

I found a mouse to be bad, something to do with pressing the button on top. I
now use a trackball. I suspect that's specific to me though.

Above all, when it starts hurting, stop, and for a decent period of time -
"But I can't afford to stop!" will be your response. Well, you _will_ stop,
nolens volens, it'll just be whether you choose to or your body packing up.

Hand RSI is really bad, I have it now and it'll never go away. It gets better
but it's taken over a decade and I'll have it forever. So please note my the
para about it hurts so stop.

Also be really cautious about any device that claims to help RSI such as those
gyroscopic hand exercisers. They can help when it's improved (IME anyway), but
when it's bad it will aggravate it.

All the above my own experience, with a grain of salt as everyone's different
- except for the bit about "when it starts hurting, stop" cos I think that's
probably universal.

~~~
jacobolus
Really unergonomic typing form and posture combined with horrendously
unergonomic equipment and furniture is pretty much the standard in most office
jobs. (For people who have spent time thinking about the subject, it’s quite
depressing to walk around offices and see a large proportion of the workers
typing with constantly extended wrists, arms outstretched, hunched or slouched
backs, etc.)

It is entirely possible to type (at high speed in continuous bursts of 20–30m,
with short breaks between) for 5+ hours per day every day for decades without
injuries. The key is to reduce static load on the muscles and put joints in a
neutral position, and make sure to occasionally move around.

It used to be that people who did such work first went to secretary school
where they were trained in the proper form by experts. Now, everyone teaches
themselves with no external feedback, and uses whatever equipment they happen
to find lying around, most of which was incompetently designed, with a heavy
priority on cost cutting. Almost no office workers are trained in office
ergonomics.

The office furniture and computer hardware industries (along with government
research funders, etc.) have been underinvesting in ergonomics research for
40+ years. The keyboards now are _worse_ than what was typically used in the
1970s–80s, and desks and chairs are generally about the same. Official
ergonomics standards developed by national and international organizations
simply codify existing bad practices instead of trying to work out better
designs from first principles.

What ergonomics research is done typically investigates how (small samples of)
people will react to very slightly different design choices in the short term
if given no training and little adjustment time. Usually the measurements
taken are methodologically suspect. It’s a mess.

------
Marsymars
I've haven't had RSI problems yet, but I'm pretty proactive in methods of
avoidance. I use Kinesis Advantage keyboards with Dvorak layout and CST
trackballs, I'm 50/50 between standing/sitting, and 50/50 between left and
right hands for trackball use. I also exercise daily to keep
muscles/tendons/ligaments in shape.

~~~
caseyf7
How long does it take to productively switch to Dvorak?

~~~
maksimum
Took me about 3 weeks to get to proficient and a month or two to be fluent.
Mainly playing on a dvorak typing tutor website while watching TV.

~~~
danpalmer
Same here. I went Qwerty "cold-turkey" at the beginning of my Christmas
vacation, the longest period I normally take without working, and 2.5 weeks
later I was just about good enough to get by at work. I practiced every day
for a bit, and didn't let myself use Qwerty at all during that time.

The first 2 months was stressful, after that it was fine. I think it probably
took a year to get back to the same level as I was at with Qwerty though in
terms of speed (I was pretty fast), but I only did typing tutors for that
first 2.5 weeks, so I probably could have improved things by using them more.

I actually switched back from an ergonomic keyboard to my MacBook Pro keyboard
as I no longer needed the ergonomic layout and I could type faster on the
MacBook. Had brief RSI symptoms for an hour once since switching to Dvorak, vs
a few hours every few weeks on Qwerty. I imagine I'll end up back on an
ergonomic keyboard eventually, but between that and Dvorak I think I'm set for
my career.

------
adimitrov
I developed RSI from typing up long equations and calculations in TeX on a
German keyboard layout with Emacs. It was a nightmare.

I switched to Vim, and a Dvorak layout. I really like the feel of Dvorak -
every time I have to type Qwerty for an extended amount of time, my hands get
uncomfortable.

I also like modal editing. You cut down on the amount of key chords you need.
I've since switched back to Emacs with Evil.

Another trick is to implement some break routine. A typing break of 30 seconds
every five minutes may already be enough. There are many tools ta enforce
these. I used the venerable Workrave, but it's ancient and has bad UX.

~~~
willtim
I actually still use the (admittedly awful) Emacs bindings. I have both ctrl
and alt available as thumb keys on both sides (using a Kinesis Advantage). I
also activate these modifiers using an opposite hand to avoid "chording". This
was enough to fix my RSI and keep using the bindings I am familiar with.

~~~
Pimpus
The Emacs bindings are excellent. On a MacBook i have Option as Alt and
Command (next to the space bar) mapped to Control. Very comfortable setup for
Emacs with no weird external keyboard required nor any inefficient sideways
pinky reaches.

~~~
willtim
The Emacs bindings were designed for ease of learning, not ergonomics. For
example C-n and C-p for next/previous, stretches the hand and uses the weak
pinky for the very commonly used cursor keys (Vim uses the home row). I do use
these bindings myself, but I strongly disagree that they are ergonomic or
"excellent" (!)

------
mnm1
What works will depend on the person. For me it's the kinesis advantage 2,
roller mouse red (not really a mouse but way better), an adjustable or
standing desk (you can make this with a couple of monitor and laptop stands
for travel and saving money purposes), and adopting touch typing in
combination with sticky keys to avoid having to hold down keys. In addition, I
do massage and chiro and have done PT, acupuncture, etc. I use a lacrosse ball
on the back muscles to massage them and that brings the most relief as well as
massaging the arms. I get rsi from holding my phone or even just sitting and
watching tv (especially if it's not eye height). For me it seems to be mostly
a muscular issue. I've also been working a bit with weights though I don't
know if that helps. Everyone is different. If you have rsi, the most important
thing is not to work through pain and try different things to fix it.

------
caseyf7
Companies and desk makers need to bring back keyboard trays. I see so many
people typing with their keyboards too high.

------
eutropia
Pick up heavy things with your hands so that your arms and wrists don't
atrophy. I started developing random elbow pain as a young developer ( with
years of sedentary lifestyle already ) and it persisted for some time until I
started lifting weights a few times a week, and it disappeared within a month
or so.

~~~
bearhall
Lifting weights was the long term fix for me when I had a RSI.

------
nemo1618
I encourage anyone with chronic wrist pain to look into TMS. This blog post by
Y Combinator's Aaron Iba helped me completely cure my RSI:
[https://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain](https://aaroniba.net/how-i-
cured-my-rsi-pain)

~~~
amelius
Yes, when placebos are often more powerful than drugs, it seems plausible that
the mind is more capable of curing the body than we think it is.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655171/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3655171/)

------
pfarnsworth
For my, it was 100% my mouse. I had my mouse off to the side, and I realized
after debilitating wrist, elbow and shoulder pain that it was because my wrist
was at an awkward angle all the time because of my mouse.

The reason for it is obvious when you look at it. When you write in a notebook
as a student, your arms are almost crossed and your hand is bent at an angle
relative to the table. You can maintain this position for hours a day, years
on end when you're writing notes. When you're using a mouse, your arm is bent
outward and your hand is parallel to the table surface, which twists your
wrist. That ends up pinching a nerve in your wrist, which causes all these
other problems.

I switched to a pen mouse (back in 1997) which immediately fixed the problem.
However, the pen mouse broke after a few months, so I went back to my regular
mouse, but I first put it in front of my chest, in front of the keyboard, and
I cup the mouse so that my hand is at an angle to the table. My arm from the
shoulder to the elbow is resting against my chest, just like when I write on
paper, and I don't let it get off my body. When I type I move my mouse out of
the way, and when I use the mouse I move the keyboard out of the way.

It's been 22 years now without any repeat of the problems, so I know at least
for me this fixed the problem.

------
benologist
One thing that recently became very important to me was something to rest my
wrists on as I type or use my mouse. Using Apple's keyboard and mouse my hands
were always comfortable enough but switching to a big plastic PC keyboard and
mouse there is actually over an inch difference in height to consider and my
forearms started hurting.

~~~
mulholio
I weirdly found the opposite: hovering was far better for me. I always found
that resting the wrists encouraged bad typing habits and angles.

~~~
benologist
I think for me it was exacerbated by my desk height, I'm short so it's lowest
setting is about two inches higher than I need and switching to a PC keyboard
added another inch and a bit.

~~~
jacobolus
If you have unergonomic furniture but you can’t change it (e.g. getting a
taller chair, or putting some kind of booster seat on top of your existing
chair (a company called HumanTool makes one I like), switching to a lower or
adjustable-height desk, or installing an under-desk keyboard tray) or switch
to a different keyboard, then the most important thing is to position/orient
the keyboard so that your wrists are not bent while you are typing. Having
bent wrists (either extended or flexed) is the most effective way to give
yourself RSI.

To keep your wrists straight, pull the keyboard fairly close to the edge of
the desk, then tilt the keyboard so that the top surface is parallel to your
forearms, when you have your arms in a relaxed position with your upper arms
close to your torso and your shoulders back.

For a high desk/low chair, you need to tilt the keyboard up at the back end.
The taller the desk relative to your torso, the more aggressive the tilt needs
to be.

~~~
benologist
Thanks!

------
chewxy
I recently had suffered RSI that I had to take a few days off work - my elbow
felt like it was on fire and my grip weakened to the point where I was unable
to open doors with my dominant hand. My physio prescribed me ridiculous
amounts of diclofenec - so much I was afraid I was going to burn a hole in my
stomach.

Bought an ergodox, within a week the symptoms started going away, which
prompted me to buy a second one for home. It's about one month now, and my
elbow only has the occasional twinge.

Yesterday I discovered you could map mousekeys on an ergodox. Haven't needed
the mouse today, which was the cause of pain.

I still haven't found the optimum ergodox layout though. My current one allows
for plenty of mispresses of Ctrl and space. Also some kind of software
feedback where if I am in emacs the keyboard switches to an emacs layer would
be fantastic.

------
bearhall
I had a battle with tendinitis for about a year and it was terrible. I was
icing my hands multiple times a day at work just to get by and it really
destroyed my productivity.

One thing I noticed that’s not in this article (and from my perception is
commonly missing from resources about RSI) is cortisone shots. In my case I
tried for a long time to get by with better ergonomics, stretching, NSAIDs,
and ice but getting cortisone shots in both my hands made the pain stop for
long enough that I could actually rehab my hands properly and function at
work.

After the shots I started lifting weights and focused on my ergonomics and it
never came back. I’d highly recommend asking about them if you have an
inflammation issue. In my case it bought me the time and space to really fix
the underlying problems.

------
salex89
Just wanted to chime in with my experiences with the mouse. I never had any
RSI since last winter. Basically my whole life I used some sort of ergo-like,
lightweight large gaming mice. Sometimes very cheap ones. But on my new
workspace I got a quality, yet slightly uncomfortable wireless mouse, medium
sized so it can be carried around. Few months later I developed a strange pain
which was going away during the weekend. Long story short, i reluctantly
borrowed, later buyes, a Logitech MX Master mouse, and it all went away. I use
it still. I say reluctantly because of all my gaming mice I perceived this one
as heavy and sluggish. But I've got to hand it to it, after hours of using it,
there is no fatigue in the wrist or arm.

------
microtherion
I've had sporadic RSI issues off and on for 30 years, but less and less over
the years.

To me, the key insight was not to focus too much on the immediate source of
the pain, and instead think about overall posture. Fix the posture, and the
pain will go away. Adopt unnatural remedies for e.g. the wrists, and the pain
will, at best, wander somewhere else.

The section "Desk & Keyboard Positioning" in the article, with the emphasis on
right angles, seems the most important to me. In my experience, monitors are
often set up too low, so that's the first thing I check when RSI issues crop
up.

Personally, I also swear by getting regular massages, so back and neck issues
never build up too much.

~~~
jacobolus
Computer displays being low is fine. The eyes and head are evolved for looking
downward, and the lower part of the field of view makes both convergence and
focusing on nearby objects easier.

People just need to remember that they can swivel their eyes without rotating
their whole head/neck downward. You want to sit in a non-slouching position,
with neck and head straight. The spine is quite good at supporting the weight
of the head when the torso and head are straight. But holding up a tilted head
for a long time puts a lot of static strain on neck muscles.

Personally I would recommend putting the top of the display at least slightly
below eye level, pushing the display as far away as is comfortable (the
further away, the less work the eye muscles have to do), and tilting the
display backwards at the top so the center of the display points at the face.

Putting the display very high up in the field of view (like the article
author’s pictured setup) encourages slouching and tilting the head back.

* * *

> _If you hold your elbows at a right-angle, your keyboard needs to be just
> below your hands in order to keep your wrists straight. You want to aim to
> hover, not rest at an awkward, upwards angle._

Holding the elbows at a right angle is not something to prioritize. It’s fine,
if the furniture allows, but if not, allow the elbows to be at whatever angle
they need, and highly prioritize the wrists. IMO the most important RSI-
preventing step to take is positioning/orienting the keyboard so that the
wrists are not extended or flexed while typing.

> _[watch out for a] wrist-breaking upwards slope. I don’t know why exactly
> this is (perhaps it’s inherited from mechanical typewriters needing their
> keys in the correct place), but most keyboards slope upwards, causing your
> wrists to bend as you type._

An upward-at-the-back tilt to the keyboard is not just okay, but is _strictly
necessary_ when using a tall desk and low chair. If you use a down-at-the-back
tilted keyboard with a high desk, the wrists will end up flexed, which is a
really bad idea. The appropriate front/back tilt of the keyboard depends
entirely on the height of the keyboard relative to the torso (which determines
the orientation of the forearms).

If the desk can be lowered or (even better) if a tall saddle-type stool can be
used or if the typist can stand up, then letting the elbows be relaxed (more
than a right angle is probably ideal) is also fine. When the desk is low
relative to the torso, then the tilt of the keyboard must be adjusted to match
the orientation of the forearms.

Dramatically “tenting” a split keyboard (aggressively tilting the two halves
upward toward the center) will make a big reduction in static
hand/arm/shoulder strain required. Separating and rotating the two halves are
relatively minor by comparison.

Finally: the author of this article puts the keyboard very far from the edge
of the desk, meaning that his arms are going to be reaching far forward. This
puts a lot of strain on the shoulders. Pull the keyboard closer, so that the
upper arms hang straight down, with elbows close to the body.

------
DoreenMichele
Some things that may help:

1\. Clean your keyboard and mouse.

2\. Feed your tendons.

3\. Resistance training, such as weightlifting.

I suspect one of the hidden benefits of recommendations to buy a different
(ergonomic) keyboard is that simply having a new keyboard means it's probably
cleaner than the one you've been using. Makes me wish someone would do a study
involving three options:

1\. New, clean keyboard same as the old keyboard in terms of layout.

2\. New, clean ergonomic keyboard.

3\. Just religiously and thoroughly cleaning your keyboard.

It would be interesting if we could quantify how much the recommendation for a
new keyboard was beneficial simply because it's clean. (Though I guess you
would also need to rate the filth level of old keyboards to get more
meaningful data.)

~~~
m0zg
Sample size of one and all that, but weightlifting is the only thing that
helped my RSI. I've tried everything: Kinesis keyboards, trackballs, ergonomic
mice, etc. Nothing worked. I couldn't sleep properly some nights due to
constant pain. I took up weightlifting, and my RSI was gone within a month.
And back pain was gone as well.

What's frustrating is that _not a single doctor_ suggested physical exercise.
Some prescribed expensive PT. Some prescribed some stupid hand stretching
exercises which only seemed to make things worse. One prescribed massage
(nope, doesn't help with RSI).

Ever since then I'm pretty convinced that most musculoskeletal and tendon
chronic ailments are due to either the lack of muscle development (especially
in the back and legs/knees) or due to unbalanced muscle development.

~~~
DoreenMichele
My ex lifted weights and also spent a lot of time at a computer. He began
having pain when he stopped lifting for a time. He saw a doctor and the
conclusion was that he was in pain because he hadn't been lifting. He resumed
lifting and it went away.

But, yeah, generally speaking, I'm pretty frustrated with how common it is for
doctors to not tell patients about simple fixes that don't involve drugs or
surgeries. Sometimes you get generic handouts with information about, for
example, how cleaning can serve as a first line of defense with allergies and
respiratory problems, but we don't really promote such approaches in earnest.
Interventions that don't involve drugs or surgery are often treated like they
don't really count in some sense.

~~~
m0zg
Allergies are frustrating as well. Before I moved to the US I had no allergies
at all. I grew up in a place where ragweed grows dense and 6 feet tall. There
are plenty of allergens there, and yet I was fine. Like with my RSI I went to
the doctors, they did tests, prescribed medications, and my life still kind of
sucked for a good chunk of the year. And then I bought a house and started
gardening with my bare hands (giving my immune system better things to worry
about), and things are much easier now, allergy-wise, though still not ideal.
And yet, no doctor in the US will prescribe that you expose yourself to dirt
and germs from time to time.

------
sz4kerto
My recommendation: rocking kneeling chair. RSI can be addressed with different
keyboards sometimes, but as with many other injuries sometimes the root cause
is somewhere else, not where you feel the pain.

So if your wrists hurt, don't just look at how you hold your hands. Change
your sitting posture, try a standing desk, etc. - there's a chance that just
sitting differently will help your RSI.

(This has happened with me. I used all kinds of fancy ergo keyboards, plus
expensive regular chairs. Now I use a Varier Balans plus a simple 68%
mechanical keyboard, and all my wrist and back problems went away.)

------
cwyers
Getting an ergonomic keyboard near about saved my life. I went from discussing
surgery to not even having to be on meds after buying a Microsoft Natural
Keyboard.

~~~
paulcole
Have you tried a trackball? It wasn’t quite as big an improvement as switching
to an ergonomic keyboard but I notice a definite improvement in my mousing
hand/arm.

~~~
SuperPaintMan
Disclaimer: I'm the creator of the Gergo ergonomic keyboard

There's a bunch of factors that go into reducing stress on the hands, mainly
however reducing stretching and improving posture. The main issue with mice is
that your hands need to move back and forth and back and forth. You should try
and minimize this motion as much as possible using keyboard shortcuts/tiling
managers and whatnot. But if you must alternating between a thumb and finger
trackball is helpful. Using just one runs the risk of putting too much strain
on a single finger. If you can enable drag scrolling with your trackball, I've
found that to be less aggravating then using a wheel.

Keyboards like the Dactyl Manuform and MS Natural are great allowing the hands
to separate and reach a more neutral positioning but many don't leverage the
programability of keyboards to improve RSI. Usually this comes with a
necessary reduction in size. Boards in the 40% category do a decent job of
reducing the amount of work but you also need to factor in the weight of the
switches you're using. I'm a bit of an extremist and swear by 12g Kailh Chocs
but something like Gateron Clears (35g) would be more ideal for regular
typists.

The main thing is that with a programmable board you can jam more features
into less keys. Momentary layers, Vim-style leader keys, multi-modifers (Ctrl-
Shift-Alt on a single key), and all sorts of shenanigans (like on-board text
snippets). It's not as straight forward as regular boards but like the author
noted, it opens so many damn doors.

In my opinion Gergo (while smaller then many keyboards) is too large and runs
the risk of pinky-overloading (Modifiers, Bksp, tab, etc). Georgi with a
optimized firmware and layout is closer to the ergonomic solution (Providing
you're willing to put the time to adjust to chorded QWERTY). It's a shame the
DataHand died as it did, the layout was damn near perfect ergonomically.

[1] [https://www.gboards.ca/](https://www.gboards.ca/)

------
tluyben2
Is there anything known about the underlying cause of RSI? I should have it
but I don't, friends of my shouldn't have it but they do... When I first heard
about (and was scared of it) was mid 90s, but then it was still seen (at least
here) as kind of nonsense and trying to get on disability easily without proof
(that worked though after a few cases). But now, so many years later, they
should know more?

~~~
Izkata
I think the key is to not blindly follow typing advice.

For example, from the article:

> The main mistake was chording. Chording is where you use one hand to type
> two distant keys. Press Shift-T on your keyboard with only your left hand
> and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

I can see how it's a stretch if you follow home-row resting position from
standard keyboarding advice, but I taught myself touch-typing while playing
StarCraft several years before taking a keyboarding class. My resting position
isn't home-row, and shift-t isn't a stretch - my hands rest on the keyboard
angled instead of straight on, so bending my fingers a bit is enough.

It even hints at the "not blindly follow advice" at the end, while not saying
it explicitly:

> Throughout my experimentation, I tried several other strategies that seemed
> to be ubiquitously recommended across the internet yet were useless pieces
> advice for me personally.

> I also read a lot of advice that told me to stop using my mouse. This didn’t
> really make much sense to me as I could clearly feel my wrists hurting more
> when typing than when using my mouse.

The mouse one is interesting. I've seen two main ways to use a mouse, often
based on how big your hands are: Rest your wrist on the mousepad and use your
fingers to move it around, or rest your hand on the mouse and lift your arm,
using your elbow and shoulders to move the mouse around. The first method I
can absolutely see contributing to RSI, the second not so much because you're
not twisting your wrist. I'd guess the author reflexively does the second,
people giving this advice were taught to do the first.

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willtim
The Kinesis Advantage completely cured my RSI. It's also much more pleasant to
type on than any other keyboard I've tried. Worth every penny. I also use a
Kensington Slimblade trackball for when I can't avoid moving a pointer.

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dbb8193
so this is a bit out there but what worked for me and really changed things
was taking feldenkrais classes. I had a pile of weird ergonomic keyboards, did
crazy stretches, exercised, and tried every keyboard layout but going to a
feldenkrais class once a week changed my relationship to my body and stopped
me from creating crazy tension any time something felt off.

this is where i found out about it:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/well/trying-the-
feldenkra...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/well/trying-the-feldenkrais-
method-for-chronic-pain.html)

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jklepatch
I had some rsi-like symptoms couple of years ago. They all stopped when:

\- I stopped using an external mouse (replaced partially by mouth) \- I
switched to vim \- In chrome I use the vimperator extension \- I learned as
many shortcuts as I could.

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arnoooooo
I can't recommend reading "The mindbody precription" by Dr. Sarno enough to
anybody with RSI.

~~~
mr_donk
Came to say this, happy that someone else did. It changed my life. I now have
a graveyard of weird ergonomic devices and wrist arm braces, and can happily
code all day on my laptop keyboard in any position. A few years ago I couldn’t
write 2 lines without excruciating pain.

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lasagnaphil
I just freaking love the fact that he's using the titular CLRS "Introduction
to Algorithms" book as a monitor stand... (I actually have to study it for a
test next week)

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Pimpus
No, buying expensive and totally impractical keyboards is not a solution, and
I say that as an Ergodox owner. Really, if the root cause of your RSI is not
addressed, you are going to have pain forever, whether they be back or knee
problems or whatever, and you will just be perpetually playing catchup with
more and more overpriced chairs and desks and weird devices.

