
Out Of Nowhere, The iPad Has A Real Competitor - mikecane
http://ipadtest.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/out-of-nowhere-the-ipad-has-a-real-competitor/
======
slantyyz
The thing that makes my iPad great is its user experience, not its features.

The fact that the app ecosystem is huge, has plenty of quality titles. I don't
have to spend any time building apps to satisfy my needs, nor spend hours
figuring out how it works.

Yes, I could buy four of these devices for the price I spent on an iPad, but
if they don't provide user experience parity to an iPad, how can it be
considered a "real competitor"?

~~~
rbanffy
It's a competitor even if it addresses a subset of the iPad functionality.
This one has e-book reading, something many people buy the iPad for. Different
people weight different features differently (sory - had to do it) and this
thingie may end up with a better value than an iPad for a lot of people.

Me included, BTW. I could buy one of these _and_ a Nook for less than what an
iPad costs. For me, it's a winner.

It's a competitor, even if you prefer the iPad.

~~~
mattmaroon
Do you really think people buy the iPad for reading ebooks? I find it to be
not significantly better than reading on a monitor. The iPad is great for some
things for sure (Plants vs Zombies being first and foremost in my experience)
but I think if I wanted to read books I'd get a Kindle or some eink device.

~~~
jsz0
I'm more of an audiobook person myself but I have read 2 books on the iPad
with good results. The only drawback is the temptation to hit the home button
and do something else which isn't a real problem on current e-ink devices
since they don't really _do_ anything else. Which is also the same reason I
wouldn't buy one. I don't read enough text to justify a standalone device.

~~~
chris11
That is one of the reasons I like my Sony Touch ebook reader. It basically is
only good for reading, so I don't end up interrupting my reading to do
something else on it.

------
DeusExMachina
_2) It’s not a very bright screen, like the iPad. But if you intend to do a
lot of reading, this is a plus._

No, it's not. On the iPad you can adjust the brightness of the screen directly
in the iBooks app if you want. But when you want a brighter screen for
anything else, you can have it.

~~~
borism
yes it is. most users will end up not adjusting brightness thus hurting their
eyes

~~~
blasdel
What the fuck? You're reading this on a screen right now. You and everyone
else reading this thread likely read text from LCD screens for at least half
of your waking hours!

What about a tablet formfactor suddenly makes backlit LCD screens completely
unbearable?

~~~
borism
_What about a tablet formfactor suddenly makes backlit LCD screens completely
unbearable?_

we're talking iPad here. I haven't used one in direct sunlight, only in a bar
one evening, but I do have an iPod touch and new Macbook Pro with glass (or
mirror) display. Few downsides to Steve's obsession with glass:

\- as I said, no matter how bright is backlight glass becomes mirror in
sunlight (M̦̆̆BP is mirror even in low light) \- thus backlight has to be
driven at very high power, regardless of conditions \- baclights' low setting
is still much higher than on similar non-glass devices which makes said
devices painful on the eye in the dark (same applies to my HTC EVO, especially
for you Apple fanboys)

~~~
grinich
The iPad (and iPhone 4) use a new type of screen with IPS technology. [1] I
find it to be much nicer on the eyes than a regular display. It also works
really well in direct sunlight, as long as you don't reflect the sun directly
into your eyes. Sort of like reading a glossy magazine outdoors.

[1] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#In-
plane_switching_.28I...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#In-
plane_switching_.28IPS.29)

------
allend
I love it when people think competing with the iPad means having more bullet
point features.

~~~
david927
I love it when the faithful think that features and price are not competitive.

~~~
mattmaroon
They're really not. My dad knows what an iPad is. Unless this device lays
golden eggs he'll probably never hear of it.

Also, there are unmentioned features in the iPad's favor, most notably an App
Store with 200k titles in it.

~~~
sprout
So your dad never browses Wal-mart, Target, Best Buy, or anywhere else?

This is in the netbook range Best buy will throw next to the check-out aisle.

~~~
theli0nheart
If you're looking for a tablet you probably already know which one you're
going to buy before you set foot in a physical store.

~~~
Tichy
What if you are not looking for a tablet? Few people were looking for a tablet
before the iPad launch.

~~~
theli0nheart
True, but that's irrelevant.

My point is that few people buy electronics on impulse, without research,
before walking into a store.

~~~
axod
Where's the evidence for that?

Perhaps if the price is $500+, but at $200 it can be an impulse buy.

~~~
theli0nheart
Why is the onus on me to prove it is one way or another?

The information is available online. Do you really think people walk into Best
Buys before they do their research? Perhaps if money is no object. But for
most people, it is, and therefore research is pretty imperative.

~~~
axod
Don't assume everyone is like you.

I do most of my 'research' by browsing in shops. I _often_ go into places like
Best Buys, Frys, looking for 'stuff I probably want'.

Also most people have credit cards. Most people often don't worry about money
when purchasing things. They worry later when they're in debt.

The threshold is different for everyone, but I would say that $200 is below
the threshold it makes sense to bother researching all that much if it looks
like it might be useful. No point spending a couple of hours, extra petrol etc
to "save" a few $.

~~~
lena
Totally agreed. When I was shopping for a netbook I often saw people in stores
who wanted a netbook, asked the store employee what they should buy, and then
bought one. The same goes for camera's. Why should this be different for
tablets?

------
bradleyland
Ok, so supposedly this is a "real competitor" for the iPad, but the author
lists the following downsides:

1) It’s a resistive screen. 2) It’s not a very bright screen, like the iPad.
3) It’s not a blazing fast CPU. 4) It’s limited for video. 5) It will be
heavier than most eInk devices. 6) There’s no 3G, it’s WiFi-only.

Here's why these matter.

1) There is a very good reason no one uses resistive touch for devices
intended to be used with your finger. The experience is horrible. You're
better off trying to use your fingernail than you are your finger, and that's
just awkward. 2) From the photos (and they might just be bad photos) the
screen looks find for black & white, but muddy and washed out in color. 3) So
responsiveness will suffer when running the full version of Android 4) _TILT_
5) This hasn't really been a problem for the iPad, but the iPad doesn't suffer
from the cumulative negative effects listed here. 6) Not a big problem, IMO. A
lot of people bought the WiFi iPad, and for good reason. If you're going to
have a 3G data connection, it should probably be in the form of a MiFi or
something similar.

Here's the biggest problem of all, items one, two, three, four add up to a
lousy experience, and experience is everything. Sure, people might buy it
once, but they won't use it if the experience sucks, and they won't buy
another. The shame of the matter is that they may condemn tablets in general,
rather than understand the attribution as I've listed it above.

~~~
someone_here
With regard to point 1, my N900 has a resistive screen, and it feels almost
exactly like an iphone (except I can use a stylus to click on tiny links on
web pages instead of having to zoom).

~~~
illumin8
You're crazy. I've used an N900 and it is nothing like an iPhone.
Responsiveness is terrible- clicks sometimes take 2 or 3 attempts to register,
and even when they do register the software takes half a second to respond, so
you end up with this awkward use that goes something like "did I click it? I
think I clicked it, let me click it again."

The iPhone is instantly responsive to any touch, and when you get used to
using a multi-touch device, you really can't go back to using a resistive
screen. I felt like it was 1995 and I was using an original Palm Pilot.

------
khakionion
The CPU isn't that fast, and the screen is resistive. User experience is going
to suck so, so hard on this thing, even if you ignore the fact that it isn't a
"real" Android tablet until, y'know, the installed OS is hacked upon.

------
gfodor
I don't see how this is going to "shake up everything" if you have to install
the OS yourself. It'll be a cheap faux iPad for hackers, though.

------
rmah
I love the line "All that’s involved is installing a different device driver
and then a new Home launcher!" 99% of the population will respond with, "huh?"
and then stop considering it.

I hope they sell enough to stay in business and make a bit of money, but
really, this is a niche product compared to the iPad. And that's saying
something.

~~~
slantyyz
I'd rather buy a Windows 7 slate than this thing. Now that's saying something.

------
thought_alarm
7" is such a ridiculous screen size. It's too big to fit in your pocket, too
small to be a compelling tablet.

You'd be much better off with an iPod Touch than this thing. It's faster, runs
the latest software, has a proper touch screen, fits in your pocket, and is
overall is a much higher quality of software and hardware.

I really wish there was an iPod Touch equivalent Android device, but so far
there isn't. And there won't be an iPad equivalent until Google develops a
proper tablet OS, with its own tablet UI guidelines and SDKs to make it happen
(rumored to be Android 3.0). But that obviously won't prevent manufacturers
from rushing out devices before the OS is ready. Buyer beware.

------
ezy
(spit take) Heh... resistive screen and slow CPU. The year 2005 called and
wants its N800 back.

Until the competitors really start to care about excellence, Apple will
continue to dominate. I say this not as a particular Apple fan, but out of
frustration with "open" alternatives I'd like to use that just f*cking blow
compared to the benchmark Apple has set.

I mean you're trying to sell me a super-smartphone (HTC Evo) with shitty
battery life? In 2010? what the hell?

------
Keyframe
_This is going to shake up everything._

No, it's not. Sensationalist BS strikes HN again.

------
superjared
I talked to a Pandigital rep back in May about whether this platform was open
and got this response:

 _Future versions of this product will be able to take advantage of Android
applications. At this time w/ the ifirmware version at launch, the first
Pandigital Novel eReaders are not designed to support additional Android
applications._

------
petercooper
Get back to us once it's actually on sale and we can buy one. It seems
everyone other than Apple is keen to announce products but then aren't so
great at ever releasing them.

------
dotBen
You can discount this one if you like because it is a home-brew fix up.

But when the first 10"+ screened Android tablets come out from quality
manufacturers, they will give Apple a run for their money. I hear there are a
number of such devices being held back for a Fall launch for the Christmas
purchasing season.

If I could buy a similarly speced + quality finished tablet to my iPad that
ran Android I'd switch in an instant.

------
powrtoch
Does this even have the necessary buttons to be an up-to-spec android device?

------
stcredzero
This is not a competitor. It's a hacker hobbyist machine, which is something
the iPad is not, by both design and price point.

~~~
joezydeco
The ad in this weekend's Bed Bath and Beyond flyer for the Novel didn't call
it a hacker machine. I should call and complain.

~~~
illumin8
Actually, although I don't think it's a real competitor, the Bed, Bath &
Beyond ad had it listed for $169 with a $20 mail in rebate. Use one of the
many 20% off any single item coupons that they mail you, and you can buy this
for $135.20, plus the mail in rebate you end up with it for only around
$115.20.

When the price is under $100, which should be soon, it might be a fun little
hacker toy to put in interesting places, like glued to the front of the
fridge, in the back of the headrest in your car, etc.

~~~
joezydeco
Pandigital stuff also tends to end up at Kohl's, which always has double or
triple discounts in play at certain times, especially if you have their charge
card.

------
eli
Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky, but I really don't want to have to hack
or coerce the things I buy in order to make them do what I want.

~~~
rbanffy
Same here, but I value the ability to hack and coerce the things I own when I
decide to do with them things their makers would not approve.

------
hlidotbe
ok, if I understand well this is a competitor, smaller, slower with an
inferior screen and touch technology and you have to (easily but still...)
change its software to support those features given it's not build for it.

The only advantages being cheaper (I would hope so given the specs!), running
Android (debatable) and using an SD card for storage.

Even the site lists more cons than pros...

------
j79
2) It’s Android — which you can now make your own apps for.

I'm guessing my five year old niece, who enjoys playing games on the iPad,
won't be purchasing this tablet to drop her own game on the Android market.
Or, the grandmothers who own iPads - I don't think they've been clamoring to
develop some bomb ass apps, if only they didn't have to learn that pesky Obj
C.

Not saying that all grandmothers or five year olds can't code - just that
Apple is selling an experience, one that many people enjoy. Give a person an
iPad and this, and see which one they enjoy using more. Resistive screens? A
huge impact on experience...

~~~
studer
I suspect that was a reference to this:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/12/technology/12google.html>

"User testing has been done mainly in schools with groups that included sixth
graders, high school girls, nursing students and university undergraduates who
are not computer science majors."

------
tedunangst
Apple iPad: 9.56" x 7.47" x 0.5"

Pandigital Novel: 5.5" x 7.5" x 0.5"

That's not a real competitor.

------
ableal
<http://pandigital.net/search.asp?productid=392>: (specifications) 7” Digital
TFT LCD, 600 x 800 pixels

The 6-inch, 800x600 e-ink readers are now at 150 USD (Borders, Amazon, etc.).
Some with SD and Bluetooth included. A bit more for touch screens (Sony?).

So, battery life and readability versus color and Wi-Fi.

------
mhd
Come on, this is from a manufacturer of digital photo frames. It's target
market has some overlap with that of the iPad, so it's definitely a
competitor, but the headline makes it sounds like it's gonna be a major
alternative.

Having said that, this looks like a pretty cool device. I've been thinking
about rooting my nook, but this would be an even better target. If it's fast
enough for PDF display, it would a nice reference tool, and in my opinion the
only way to get a decent book reader is for some third party to make one. I
haven't seen a single one that has a decent text layout algorithm.

The "problem" with the iPad is that at this size and resolution, the web pages
themselves look pretty astonishing, so there's less need to get a reformatted
version as an app. And the iPhone 4 and its technological advances almost make
me want to wait for a 2G device. So a gadget like this would be the perfect
stop-gap solution for me. No iPad killer, but an iPad postponer…

------
Tyrannosaurs
What's the criteria for something being a "real" competitor?

This device provides functionality which is broadly comparable with the iPad,
in the same way as many netbooks, the Kindle, the Nook other eBook readers and
a whole bunch of other devices.

How comparable they are is debatable but are they competitors, in as much as
is it possible that people will buy one of them instead of an iPad to fulfil
one or more needs an iPad could have fulfilled.

But how come this is a "real" competitor when the others aren't? If anything
I'd suggest that the "real" competitors are the ones I can go out and buy and
use now and where people are doing just that, rather than an unlaunched device
I'd need to mod.

------
smitjel
Sounds more like a competitor to the other eink readers. All I want is a good
eink reader anyway. I don't care about videos, touch-screen, internet,
3G...just give me an eink reader with ample memory. I think the Nook wins in
that case...

------
kentosi
Was there really the need for all those exclamation marks throughout this
article?

"...three of them!", "Android tablet!", "No rooting is involved!", "...no
rooting is necessary!", "But does that really matter?!", "Where are you going
to match that?!" (etc)

Seriously, this article would have sounded a lot more convincing without them.

Aside from this, it would be interesting to know what the user-experience
would be. I can see that the specs aren't as high-end as the iPad, but that
might be a first-phase thing.

------
chaostheory
I thought Google didn't allow the Android Store for tablets yet? Am I wrong?
If I'm right, this would be a really severe limitation.

~~~
wmf
The rules changed recently so some tablets should be able to get the store,
although I think they still require a camera.

------
KirinDave
I give it the ultimate libertarian venture: Good luck with your startup, dawg.

The biggest obstacle to tablet computing doesn't seem to be the price, it's
convincing the market that your product us worthwhile. Tablet PCs have existed
for years now with a variety of price points. The price is not the main
selling point.

------
jerguismi
What about the numerous tablets on dealextreme, many go for about 100$, run
android and include 7" or 8" screen.

<http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.tablet>

Maybe I'll try one out, although 10" screen would really be a selling point
for me.

------
volodia
However one very useful thing this tablet can do that the iPad cannot is serve
as a notebook (because it has a resistive and not a capacitive screen). I'm a
student and I would love to have a cheap portable device for taking electronic
notes in class; this tablet looks excellent for that.

------
threepointone
That looks disgusting. Just the green-gray(?!) gradient made me squirm. And
after that list of cons... really, what's left? The price? You get what you
pay for.

In any case, my bullshit detector comes on full force whenever it encounters
so many exclamation marks.

------
rodh257
why do people keep saying an LCD screen is an 'e-reader'. Completely missing
the point. Calling e-ink 'crappy' and then telling me to read books on the
same type of screen as the monitors sitting in front of me is stupid. You
wouldn't read on a computer screen, and you won't seriously read on an LCD
monitor no matter how small it is.

If your use case is to read books, e-ink is for you, all these e-readers with
superfluous extra features remind me of the first GPS I got, it had SD card
support to play MP3's and Movies but sucked at navigation and had a crap GPS
signal. I never used the extra features, and always got lost.

------
code_duck
I don't know whether this is it quite yet, but I'm definitely looking forward
to everyone else's tablets coming out soon. I love my MacBook but I'm not
interested in the closedness and restrictions of the iOS systems.

------
nchapman
Is anything a _real_ competitor if it doesn't compete well out of the box?

------
kevinelliott
To me, it's not a real competitor. Just looking at the photographs solidifies
that I am not in the market that these guys are targeting. I'm willing to bet
that a lot of iPad users would agree.

------
jackfoxy
One thing I haven't been able to do on the iPad yet is overclock (speed up
without making the audio sqeaky) video lectures. Might come to Android tablets
first if VLC does a port to Android.

~~~
hexley
Try changing the video metadata to Podcast and see if that allows you.

------
ricardo
I wouldn't call it a "real" competitor until the device launches. Until then
it's in the same realm has the HP Slate and the other forthcoming Android
tablets.

------
mattmaroon
I'm not sure he understands what e-ink is.

------
baddox
And what resolution is the screen?

------
jlcgull
it is the OS that makes the device... a super-responsive touch screen also
helps. of the the many touch devices i have come across, nothing compares to
the responsiveness of an iPad or iPhone/iPodTouch.

