
Drone carrying drugs crashes near US-Mexico border - kisamoto
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30931367
======
aresant
This reminds me of a VICE program around Columbian Narco Submarines (1)

The show highlights, at one point, a guy who engineered an incredible drug
"torpedo" that could be towed behind a fast boat, cut and dropped instantly if
trouble arose, and recovered via digital homing beacons safe and sound at a
later time.

I was struck by how proud he was of it, from a purely technical perspective.

And it was a damn smart solution to a problem, albeit one that was
unfortunately illegal.

(1) [https://www.vice.com/video/colombian-
narcosubs](https://www.vice.com/video/colombian-narcosubs)

~~~
acd
The war on drugs is over. I realized it was over when I also read about the
narco subs, now there are narco drones. Drones delivering drugs over the
border. Narco subs delivering drugs. Horizontal directional drilling like the
ones used in shale gas exploration are also used to deliver drugs. It has
turned into a technology war.

The probation of drugs in US is bringing much damage to neighboring supplier
countries south of the border such as Mexico where the real costs of the drugs
are felt in human lives. The war on drugs is exactly the same problem as we
had during the alcohol probation in the 1930s, maffia like Alcapone taking
over Chicago, if the state legalizes the drugs there is better opportunity to
treat and help the drug users. As long as there are drug users there will be
drug suppliers.

~~~
DrFunke
The DEA's budget is nearly $3B. I'd doubt RC technology can compete against
that.

~~~
chroma
For manufacturers, the profit margins on illegal drugs are _absurd_. A lab in
Mexico can make meth for $500/kg. Once that meth is in the US, it can sell for
$60,000/kg.[1] In other words, manufacturers can lose 90% of their product and
still make tons of money.

Unless the DEA intercepts practically every drug drone sent across the border,
people are going to keep at it. The money's just too good.

1\.
[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/math.html)

~~~
vacri
I was talking to a customs officer in Australia who said that some drugs were
just dumped overboard and collected from the shore. Even with a loss rate of
~90% from customs intervention and/or not making it to the beach, he said it
was still profitable enough that they kept on doing it.

------
Mikeb85
Why not just use a fixed-wing RC aircraft?

Multi-rotor copters are great for stability and easy to fly, but suck for,
say, flying over a border.

And depending on your noise requirements, you could even use a fuel powered
engine, which would give you much better height, range, speed, and payload.

~~~
copperx
Hell, you could put a jet engine on the aircraft.

I doubt anyone at the border is prepared to handle a RC plane like this:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTHWBSluUjU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTHWBSluUjU)

~~~
atourgates
I'm trying to figure out the range of something like this. This is Hans
Litjens' jet, he talks a bit more about it here[1], noting that it has 2L of
fuel in the wings.

I found one source that estimates that normal RC jet engines use 250ml/minute.
If we assume that this thing uses 2x of a "normal" RC jet engine, at 350mph it
could go about 23 miles in 4-minutes before running out of fuel. Or, from the
border to just south of Del Mar.

With that kind of range and speed, it seems like it'd be reasonable to avoid
detection.

[1] [http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/9133201-fast-
rc-...](http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/9133201-fast-rc-jet.html)

~~~
Mikeb85
Why do you figure it would use 2x the fuel of a 'normal' RC Jet engine? Edit -
anyhow you're right on the consumption of this engine: 476 mL/minute. Still
though, would be out of the feds' sight before they realize what's even going
on. At night they'd never have a clue.

RC Jets are fast as hell; over 200 mph is very common for turbine powered RC
planes.

More craziness, 440 mph RC jet: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa-
TSNeTK-A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa-TSNeTK-A)

~~~
atourgates
> Why do you figure it would use 2x the fuel of a 'normal' RC Jet engine?

Because I have no idea what I'm talking about estimating fuel consumption in
RC jet engines, and "2x" seemed like a reasonable guess? Looks like I wasn't
too far off.

I wonder how much adding a payload would affect that, and what the max weight
is including possibly larger fuel tanks and a cargo payload.

~~~
sdenton4
WHAT is the airspeed velocity of an coconut-laden RC jet?

------
ChuckMcM
This has been discussed before and is a favorite of some of the robotics
communities. This particular drone seemed to be a bit overloaded (2.7kg?) and
I'm guessing the person who launched it hadn't made the connection between
flight time and weight. But still it seems a pretty straight forward way to
get drugs from point A to point B.

That said, 2.7kg of crystal meth might be worth $270,000 [1]. So the cost of
the drone is insignificant to the 'value' of the meth it was carrying. Sending
1kg chunks over on $10,000 drones would still net a decent profit. And $10,000
is a pretty nice drone.

[1]
[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/faqs/](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/faqs/)

~~~
Shivetya
so how long before

a) buying one puts you on a list

b) you are required a license to fly one, anywhere

c) you are required a license to buy, let alone fly one

~~~
ChuckMcM
Well its been "possible" for a long time (over 10 years) using fixed wing
craft. My favorite was this story:
([http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/model-
airplan...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/model-airplane-
history-maker-maynard-hill-dies-at-the-age-
of-85/2011/06/08/AGcnyQNH_story.html)) which talks about the guy who flew an
RC model across the Atlantic in 2003.

That said, basic police work can still generally track the origin of a drone
back to when it was built/sold. Every electronic component has a date code,
and there are records of sales all along the way. That can tie it to a
location/purchase, in store surviellance can often provide images of buyers,
(mail/internet order is even easier) and get back to who had the drone to
begin with.

At the end of the day, the higher the tech 'toys' used in a crime the easier
it is for law enforcement to figure out who did it.

~~~
mindcrime
_Every electronic component has a date code, and there are records of sales
all along the way._

I have a feeling that if you buy your electronic components this way:

[http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalog...](http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDrillDownView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&categoryName=cat_2010&subCategoryName=Passive%20Components%20%2F%20Assortments%20%2F%20Grab%20Bags&category=201020)

it's a bit harder to trace an individual component back to the purchaser.
Especially something like this:

[http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_1000...](http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_135263_-1)

~~~
ChuckMcM
No doubt. And if you were really trying to be stealthy you would open up an
"e-waste" store and use it to collect things which you could scavenge parts
out of. (would make for some good fiction as well). Thinks like GPS units are
hard to get in junk bags, but easy to pick up at a recycling store out of an
old phone (assuming it isn't part of the SOC). But the point remains that all
of those things have 'tendrils' and the mosaic effect is very real.

------
jasonkester
Remember when these were called Remote Control Helicopters?

~~~
larrys
I flew gas powered in the 80's. At that time I remember seeing an electric
being demoed or more or less used as a trainer to learn to hover (the first
step back in the day). It had a power cord attached to it and could only go
within range of the cord.

Remote control is a bit different (than drones) in that the drones can operate
with electronics that allow them to fly without a remote operator (in some
situations and with the right model). You needed obviously an operator for a
RC Helicopter. Always needed to be flown and I do mean always if you took your
hands off the sticks it _would_ crash.

------
fit2rule
Here in Austria, the Austrian border patrol are actively recruiting RC-rotor
pilots (helicopters) to patrol the terrain around the borders with the eastern
European countries.. I know of 2 guys who started the RC helicopter hobby and
are now doing regular patrol duty with government-sanctioned rotorwings.

The drone era is well and truly upon us. I can't wait until it scales up
enough to be able to really have an impact on the transportation industry...

------
petercooper
Physics / engineering people: Ignoring cost, is it physically possible to
create a drone of not _too_ significant size that could, unaided, take a 1kg
payload from almost any useful point on the planet to another point (so a
maximum range of, say, 10-15,000km) at below typical radar range?

~~~
lotsofmangos
Flying below radar half way round the world, the fuel requirements are going
to be hideous and the wingspan massive.

However if you allow for most of the journey to be done by sea and assuming
your destination is relatively close to the coast and you do not care if it
takes ages, then you could transport a small aircraft in one of those passive
sea drones that navigate using variable buoyancy by gliding underwater to a
set depth, before going back to the surface again for a recharge and gps
check.

~~~
petercooper
Now _that_ is a very clever idea, thanks for bringing it up :)

------
theorique
Bruce Sterling talked about delivery drones in his book _Heavy Weather_
(1995), and implied that they were being used for drugs. However, the one he
described was ground based - I think it bounced like a kangaroo or pogo stick.

~~~
lotsofmangos
I like the craft in that book that has loads of independent pogosticks
attached to a central pod, with the ride just getting bumpier if any of them
fail.

------
venaoy
It's fascinating to think about potential counter-defenses... I can imagine
this will spur development of new technologies to intercept small personal
drones like these. Regular air defense artillery is too dangerous to use in a
busy airspace like the San Diego/Tijuana border where this drone was found,
and it is designed to work against military drones which are much bigger. New
and different technology is needed to intercept and destroy small personal
drug-smuggling drones.

~~~
deeviant
Seems like a pretty good use case for lasers as you can generally hit only
what your aiming out, and you don't have any explosive and/or metal shrapnel
falling back down into populated areas.

~~~
jpitz
>and you don't have any explosive and/or metal shrapnel falling back down into
populated areas. ... if and only if the laser completely obliterates the
target, which requires a fair bit more power and precision than a disabling
shot.

~~~
deeviant
I was mainly speaking to the anti-aircraft weapon's addition shrapnel, rather
than the drone itself. It's pretty hard to shoot down a drone without, ah,
having the drone fall down. You can try some sort of hack, or radio blackout,
but those are pretty easy to defeat.

But most modern AA weapons have tremendous velocities and are often explosive.
Even after losses due to air resistance, AA shrapnel can come with with lethal
velocities. I was told by somebody I trust that the Baghdad suffered more
damage in financial terms from AA fallout than the actual US air strikes in
the first US/Iraq war.

~~~
FLUX-YOU
Taking a page from Bane, just get a bigger drone to grab it.

------
slayed0
Although this was clearly a failure, I imagine there are a lot of these that
are successfully getting across. It's not hard to see where obvious mistakes
were made.

------
cooperpellaton
This looks absolutely insane. It seems as though someone just taped a pile of
these crystal bricks to the top of the drone and let it fly. Astonishing.

~~~
mikeash
I believe it's the bottom, not the top. The drone is upside down in that
picture.

Anyway, it makes me think of the "move fast and break stuff" philosophy we see
in software. Someone willing to throw stuff together and give it a shot will
be flying while a careful planner is still planning. Flying, and quite
possibly crashing, of course.

------
leeoniya
it's crazier that they fly in powered hang-gliders for drug drops over the
border [1] crash [2]

[1] [http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/may/19/flying-marijuana-
over-b...](http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/may/19/flying-marijuana-over-border-
low-slow/)

[2]
[http://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2011/0...](http://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2011/05/18/Ultra-
Light_Crash_tx700.jpg?8e0a8887e886a6ff6e13ee030987b3616fc57cd3)

~~~
themodelplumber
Warning: The second link above appears to show a dead body in a gruesome
position

------
programminggeek
Wow, they got there before Amazon.

~~~
jonathantm
Not quite the same thing. But that does give me an idea. Order drugs locally
via website, have them delivered via drone... like an express and localized
Silk Road...?

~~~
deeviant
Yep, that sounds about right. Between bitcoin, an anonymous brokerage such as
silk road, and drone delivery, the dealers would be pretty hard to track down.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I think it would be easier to track them than current Silk Road/whatever
dealers. You don't need a physical address to ship drugs out, but you
definitely need a physical location from which you're launching drones - and
unless you're throwing in a free drone with every delivery, you need to
recover them after the delivery is completed.

~~~
logfromblammo
I think you overestimate the difficulty of setting up dead drop locations.

Were I in a law-scoffing mood, I would first set up hidden cameras in several
prepared locations and let them record for a while. After reviewing the
footage for unusual traffic, I would place the UAV at one such site by hand.
After I left, it would fly to a second site, drop payload, and proceed to a
third for later recovery.

If I really took it seriously, I would have several pre-programmed abort
procedures, and a sachet of thermite powder with an electrically-triggered
magnesium igniter affixed to the control electronics.

You don't actually need to recover the drone if your margins are high enough,
but you do absolutely need to ensure that it doesn't end up intact in the
wrong hands. I might try to design a UAV with a largely disposable, mostly-
printable airframe and an ejectable/destructable control module.

~~~
pavel_lishin
I think you underestimate the consequences of getting caught!

Your plans are reasonably valid at first - you still need to deliver the drugs
to the launch location, but that's a current problem with deliveries anyway.
However, that third location is going to be the problem - if your authorities
were really in a mood to capture you, they could track the drone back to your
recovery site, and either wait for you to show up, or set up a camera to get
you collecting the drone on tape. Note that they could use a drone of their
own for this, too, and theirs can fly higher and probably have a better
camera, so you'd have to be pretty diligent to make sure you aren't
'followed'.

And if you're attaching remotely-controlled explosive/incendiary devices onto
your drone, then your risk factors have just gone up by a degree I can't even
begin to estimate. I think a capacitor that would short out the electronics
and memory would be enough, as long as you're careful about not getting any
fingerprints or DNA samples on there.

This is fun to think about, though!

I suppose that if I were to do this, I'd have my drone go somewhere with only
one aerial entrance that I'm surveilling, to make sure no other drone/person
follows it in (e.g., train/subway tunnel, storm drain, etc) that has many
different entrances/exits that I could use to recover the drone - if there are
enough of these, I could go in and recover my drone before the police could
reasonably place each one under surveillance/show up in person. But there's
surely not an infinite supply of these even in a big city.

~~~
bsder
> they could track the drone back to your recovery site, and either wait for
> you to show up, or set up a camera to get you collecting the drone on tape.

In reality, you wouldn't recover the drone. Just drop the payload somewhere
over the flight path and crash the drone.

A camouflaged package would be almost impossible to find in a forest or the
desert. Add in a spread spectrum beacon and your mule can come pick up the
package day/weeks/months later.

They had entire meth labs in the state forest and they couldn't be found
because there were only two contact times: when they set it up and when they
collected the product.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Oh, I was thinking in terms of small deliveries to end-consumers. More like
the Amazon Drone than UPS Business.

~~~
logfromblammo
The aforementioned risk factor you mentioned earlier would make deliveries
below a certain size uneconomical.

This sort of thing would be most useful between producer and distributor, or
between distributor and dealer. The last mile to the consumer would require a
lower risk profile than currently exists, including the risk that the customer
or someone near the customer knocks down your drone during delivery and
prevents you from re-using it. I don't think drones are sufficiently
disposable for consumer deliveries yet, even for completely legal goods.

I recall seeing a video of model aircraft enthusiasts doing remote-operation
races through a forested area. If you could get your UAV through a wooded area
under the canopy at decent speed without crashing it, it is very unlikely that
anyone would be able to follow it through unless they already knew where it
was going. If you were able to program a predetermined evasion route through a
volume with a lot of navigation hazards and concealment, it would be very
difficult to maintain tracking.

The problem for the defender is at least one order of magnitude higher than
for the attacker. The defense must be equally strong everywhere. The attacker
need only exploit the weakest points in the defense. UAVs make drug
interdiction harder. And I'm not certain I want the DEA to wield the sort of
power required to counter all possible UAV-based drug muling.

------
dogma1138
2.7 KG? doesn't seem like a cartel operation to me. I think it's more likely
that some Texan decided to cross the border and buy some in bulk.

------
Varcht
Fast and Furious = Drone Edition?

FAA got pushed around pretty good in the Congress hearing yesterday

[http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4524659/colin-guinn-
testifies-...](http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4524659/colin-guinn-testifies-
congress)

------
coldcode
The article mention catapults. I wonder how far you could toss a bad of meth?

~~~
miahi
Chucky 3 can throw a 4kg pumpkin at 1.1km. But the thing is huge.

[http://www.designfax.net/cms/dfx/opens/article-view-
dfx.php?...](http://www.designfax.net/cms/dfx/opens/article-view-
dfx.php?nid=4&bid=299&et=news&pn=01)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvGiJIz3K4Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvGiJIz3K4Y)

~~~
apendleton
If we're looking to pumpkin chucking as inspiration, the pneumatic cannons are
a better bet, as they generally perform better than the catapults/trebuchets.
The record for those is 1.6km.

------
briantakita
Perfect excuse to dump more money into the "War on Drugs" and to increase our
domestic robot military force.

------
arjn
Inevitable I think.

------
innguest
I'm confused for being ignorant about some key aspects of this. Any help would
be appreciated:

\- What is the range between the remote control and the receiver on the drone?

\- How does the person piloting the drone know where it is going? Do they
track its GPS signal?

\- How does the person piloting the drone know what it is landing on (ground,
rooftop, trashcan)?

\- How likely is it that when a drone is found, its pilot can be identified?
What methods of investigation, if any?

~~~
Sanddancer
Elsewhere in thread, they say they used a DJI Spreading Wings S900, which has
a flight time of 18 minutes. Using the fully automated remotes, there's a
claimed range of 11-32 km depending on antennae, etc. Navigation, etc, could
either be done with binoculars, or using the avionics package you can get for
the drone, with gps, radio beacons, etc.

If found by the feds, identifying could be tricky; you'd have to do the old
fashioned footwork of knocking on doors, asking if they saw any suspicious
people. Given that a good amount of Mexico, including Tijuana, is in the midst
of a hardcore drug war, finding witnesses could be more than a bit tough.

