

Airbnb Political Campaign [video] - murtali
http://www.airbnbnyc.com/

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bunkat
This video is pretty disingenuous in my opinion - it appears this woman
remains in the home when people rent out a room (such that she share
experiences with them according to the video). Looking through listings in
NYC, this is not the common case at all - it's actually expected that a unit
rented through Airbnb will be empty during your stay.

It's also getting more common that people are purchasing real estate for the
sole purpose of renting it out through Airbnb. When I stayed in NYC via
Airbnb, I never even met the owner of the unit (keys were dropped off at a
coffee shop across the street) and it was very obvious that nobody ever lived
in the unit.

I also have a problem with the tone of the video - "_I_ should be able to do
this because it is a good thing for _me_." What about everyone else that lives
in the building? They never signed up to live in a hotel. As a condo owner
myself, I don't want random people that haven't been screened getting access
to my otherwise secure building. I don't want to have to pay for any damage
that they cause and I don't want to deal with any of the association rules
that they break (noise regulations, pet regulations, parking, etc). While
Airbnb might be great for the people renting out their home, it's a sum
negative for everyone else legally living in the building.

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wdewind
Not only is the video disingenuous in implying that the standard Airbnb host
is someone who simply rents a room (which would not be subletting and would
not be subject to nearly as many concerns), the other facts they have on the
site support entirely different economic stimulus arguments, and entirely
ignore the zoning and legal questions, where they know they are completely
wrong.

It is frustrating to see Airbnb attempt to manipulate their way to winning.
While we tend to hate people who abuse regulation to stay in power, Airbnb
seems to be attempting to do the same from the other side. That they are
already attempting this level of manipulation before having the level of power
of the hotel lobby should give us some concern about a future in which Airbnb
runs the vacation rentals game.

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hendzen
It's not lobbying - it's 'political hacking'.

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JohnTHaller
Funny that they aren't mentioning the 983 rentals in Manhattan that rent out
the entire apartment, nearly all of which are illegal (any without a proper
bed and breakfast license). Compare that number to the 967 private room and
shared room listings in Manhattan, most of which - while not violating state
law - are operating in violation of their lease. So, Airbnb is just glossing
over the fact that the vast majority of their rentals in NYC are illegal. It's
also interesting that they make no mention of the fact that their insurance
policy only covers the renters personal possessions... not the building,
common areas, appliances, etc.

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murtali
Violating the lease is probably the biggest issue imo with Airbnb. I think
part of it is that we so often gloss over legal contracts and the concept of
airbnb where you can just "rent out a room" doesn't FEEL like anything wrong.
If as a tenant you know it's wrong, it FEELs like a petty offense which you
shouldn't be penalized for or it FEELs like a broken law.

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crazypyro
Wish the site would explain what their goal is beyond "New Yorkers want
Airbnb". As someone who hasn't been keeping up with the latest news, I have no
idea what even prompted this campaign and, as such, it makes the call to
action pretty weak from my point of view. There's no FAQ explaining what is
happening in NY or anything like that, just a page that lists facts which I'm
sure were specifically picked out to paint the right light, while completely
ignoring any of the arguments from the other side (e.g. neighbor troubles,
parking troubles, etc).

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kchoudhu
Had a good laugh when I saw these posters on the subway (D) this morning on
the way to a doctor's appointment. When a business gets on the bullhorn to
tell you that they're a net positive for society, it's pretty much a given
that there's something fishy going on in the background.

I'm not outright calling them scumbags right now, but I sure as heck will be
doing a lot more research on the claims they're making about the effects
they're having on my community.

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chimeracoder
> "I have been living in this apartment for 34 years"

If she's in lower Manhattan, I'd bet almost anything her apartment is rent-
stabilized (and I _think_ she's been here long enough to even have a rent-
controlled apartment, potentially, though she might have missed the cutoff by
a few years).

The bulk of the _legal_ debate around Airbnb has nothing to do with rent-
regulated apartments; it's the fact that in NYC, short-term subleases are
illegal, period. (Most subleases are also violations of the original lease,
though that's secondary).

The bulk of the _economic_ debate is around the practical implications. If
you're a renter (not owner) in NYC and renting out your apartment on Airbnb,
one of two things is happening, economically:

1) You pay sub-market rent due to rent regulations (control or stabilization),
and are making money off of this disparity between your rent and market rent.
You are pocketing money that, if you were in a non-regulated apartment, would
go to your landlord. (And since subletting regulated apartments is illegal, he
will evict you and find a tenant to pay full price[0])

2) You are making additional money on a market rent, which essentially means
that the rent you are paying is too low (from the perspective of the owner),
and it will go up next year.

If I can make $200/week on my apartment (hypothetically) and my landlord knows
that, he will simply raise my rent by $800/month when my lease is up for
renewal. In either case, money eventually flows towards the property owner,
whether this convergence happens immediately or with a slight delay. This has
nothing to do with the regulation; it's just the basic economics of rent at
play.

[0] The law in NYC is obviously incredibly complicated, but that's the
eventual result.

 _EDIT_ : Fixed typo: should have been $800/month ($200/week for four weeks).

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wdewind
I agree with your larger analysis, and wish that Airbnb would essentially pack
up and go home. But I don't think you're correct in assuming that rental rates
and short term vacation rental rates are in the same economic bucket. That
someone can make more off a property does not mean that the property is
necessarily worth more, it may also mean it's zoned in a way that is
economically locally suboptimal for that property. In this case that's
relevant because hotels need to charge more for the same space because they
pay very different taxes than homeowners. So an apartment wouldn't necessarily
fetch that $800 more a month on the renters market, though it does in a
different marketplace under a different premise (Airbnb and short term
renting, respectively).

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notahacker
The different economic buckets exist largely because of regulations. The
apartment might not fetch a full $800 per month in short term lets if property
owners across Manhattan could charge the highest rent they wanted for the most
profitable letting period, but it certainly wouldn't be possible for tenants
to make a living off the difference between an artificially high price for
[illegal] subletting and the artificially low price of renting long term for
established tenants.

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Irishsteve
You can't ipo when one of your popular products is questionable legally.

That said it's cheaper for me to stay in a Sheraton in Times Square than use
Airbnb (which I usually use when traveling).

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curmudgeon224
and so the astroturfing begins...

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japhyr
This is one of the best arguments I've seen recently supporting airbnb.
However, I'd be curious to see how these numbers would be affected by removing
all the undesirable airbnb arrangements - the ones where people are causing
hell or even nuisances for their neighbors, the ones where people are turning
long-term rental units into under-the-table short term rentals, etc.

~~~
dominotw
What about rent increases for everyone else? Not everyone wants strangers in
their homes you know.

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kbar13
holy crap it's really hard to read that subheader. Contrast, please!

