
How to defend yourself when your photo is ridiculed on Reddit - tomhoward
http://carlyfindlay.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/how-to-win-internet-or-how-to-defend.html
======
pkfrank
Here's another great response from someone who was unfairly bullied on Reddit.
"Subway Sitter" responds--
[http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1m3pvq/being_a_workahol...](http://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/1m3pvq/being_a_workaholic_is_no_excuse_for_being_an/cc5hr09)

------
kika
Controversially, this is what I love Reddit for.

I (and I believe a lot of other HN frequents) live in a bubble. We rarely meet
people outside of the bubble - ask yourself when did you speak IRL with a real
racist, for example? I remember this recent thread about his/her/them/their
and a poor chap from Joyent. This is a special form of "sexism for us in the
bubble". You just don't want to know what real sexism is.

Reddit allows me to look outside this bubble without actually meeting these
people. And to adjust my gauges, and to educate myself (it's easy to laugh at
some weird looking gal on the internets, but much less easy if you've learned
what she went through and what her disease means, etc).

TL;DR: If you feel the urge to laugh and you see that the Reddit crowd laughs
too, then probably you need to google around first. Chances are you won't be
able to laugh and sometimes you'd cry instead. Which in itself a useful
emotional exercise for (way too much) rational people.

~~~
mherkender
I see it a bit differently myself. All online communities seem to end up the
same way, people group together based on shared interests, which tends to lead
to a false-consensus bias. Ironically, I think much of reddit has fallen
victim to this bias, while simultaneously believing reddit is resistant to
these kinds of biases because it is free-speech friendly.

But in actuality, reddit is generally filled with straight, white, English-
speaking, college educated, single, 18-25, middle-class males [1] [2]. Reddit
sees more of traits, perspectives, problems, etc of these groups and less of
others. I see a lot of hostility towards perspectives that come from groups
who fall outside the criteria above.

In other words, I see plenty of racists on reddit -- just not non-white
racists. In my opinion, this is not looking outside my bubble, it's looking in
at a smaller part of my own bubble.

[1]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/gzb2w/i_made_a_b...](http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/gzb2w/i_made_a_basic_reddit_demographic_survey_lets/c1re10k)
[2] [http://www.ignitesocialmedia.com/social-media-
stats/2012-soc...](http://www.ignitesocialmedia.com/social-media-
stats/2012-social-network-analysis-report/#Reddit)

~~~
kika
IMHO, Reddit is just too big a community, there's no shared interest. Just too
many people. I'm speaking about large subreddits like the one discussed here,
/politics, etc.

Also, there's no problem "seeing" plenty of racists on Reddit or whereever,
but I was talking real life.

~~~
mherkender
Size is not diversity, nor does it prevent shared interests.

------
wil421
These kind of comments are what caused me to never comment on the internet
about things. I always hated the negative tone people have on the internet and
how critical they always are. Its easy to say things when you arent looking at
someone in the face.

Recently I have started commenting on various websites and I am enjoying it
but still those negative people come out of the woodwork given an opportunity.
I too sometimes fall into that behavior but never say anything humiliating.

~~~
ahuth
Well said. You're also unusually self-aware. Most people making those kinds of
comments would ever consider that they're doing something wrong.

------
dmunoz
This isn't the first time something like this has happened. See this post [0],
to which the person from the picture responds [1].

Reddit does seem to have a problem with people who want to make fun of others
posting, and unfortunately the content does get upvoted. I can't stand the
people on reddit that take secret photos of others and post them. But don't
write reddit off because of this juvenile behaviour. Read my responses to
rfnslyr to see why I feel reddit has a lot to offer. As an example, from the
post I shared links to, I learnt something about the Sikh faith that I would
not have otherwise, although I do wish that the post was never initially made.

[0]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/109cnf/im_not_sure_wh...](http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/109cnf/im_not_sure_what_to_conclude_from_this/)

[1]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/109cnf/im_not_sure_wh...](http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/109cnf/im_not_sure_what_to_conclude_from_this/c6bqtpd)

~~~
grecy
> _Reddit does seem to have a problem with people who want to make fun of
> others_

I always thought that's because there are many teenagers active on Reddit. I
think ridiculing others in an attempt to elevate ones own status is a very
common phase for insecure teenagers to go through.

My experience is almost everyone grows out of it.

~~~
ceol
Most redditors are actually college-aged,[0] with the majority being between
25 and 44.[1]

[0]:
[http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/reddit...](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/reddit-
demographics-in-one-chart/277513/)

[1]: [http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/08/21/report-social-network-
de...](http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/08/21/report-social-network-demographics-
in-2012/)

------
stefantalpalaru
It's interesting how the (out of character) resentment undermines an otherwise
high road response:

"I fought back"

"I felt a bit sick"

"I was content (...) and these posters were making fun of a stranger on the
Internet"

"Think about how that impacts a stranger. Their parents, their partner, their
children. Stop being a coward behind a screen."

"the Internet is full of pretty awful people"

~~~
chris_wot
So you think she shouldn't feel resentful for people being nasty about her?

------
JTon
Top notch advice right there. There's a lot of sympathy to be found when you
put a person (and their feelings) side by side with the joke. Hell, I felt bad
just reading her response.

------
cylinder
This is really admirable of you. To be clear, you have nothing to defend, you
only had to point out how shitty other people are.

~~~
transitionality
Why do I always seem to be running into the word "shitty" in criticisms or
attacks that can't substantiate themselves?

~~~
PavlovsCat
Why do those who can't hack the "exercise left for the reader" never directly
ask for help?

~~~
transitionality
It's not the job of your interlocutor to make your argument for you. If you
can't make your own argument, you don't have an argument.

~~~
PavlovsCat
You could replace "shitty" with "thoughtless", "callous", "cruel" for example.
It's quicker, and more satisfying, to simply use the shorthand "shitty".

Also, what _argument_? Does the fact that the lady in question did not have
anything to defend against, nothing to be ashamed of, _really_ hinge on the
exact definition of the shittyness of reddit trolls? Heh. So it's simply a
statement. And if you disagree that such behaviour is shitty, make your case.
If you don't, I really wonder what we're even talking about here.

~~~
transitionality
The truth is cruel to people who are wrong on the side of the argument,
because they get their feelings hurt. Cruelty says nothing about the validity
of an argument. This is a complete waste of time.

------
pervycreeper
This is less alarming than the potential that private-social-network based
sites such as facebook, etc. have for mockery and harassment. Imagine if
someone locally took a surreptitious photo and posted it to a social
networking site, it ended up spreading, and this woman would be walking around
in public, unaware that she was an object of mockery to the strangers around
her.

At least, since this was posted on the public internet, it eventually was able
to gain the benefit of wide scrutiny, and the original posters were somewhat
chastened.

------
aw3c2
WARNING: Potentially disturbing image of a skin illness

edit: Dear downvoters, I found that image disturbing and wish I had not seen
it. I am sorry if this offends the person depicted but it is the truth.

~~~
ahuth
The image is NOT disturbing in the slightest. She looks a little bit different
than "normal." Get over it.

~~~
hnha
I share op's feeling. At least on that image the skin looks very raw, like it
has been peeled or burned off. It absolutely does not look normal and can be
disturbing to unexpecting observers (me included). If it was normal there
would be no post about it.

Looks don't mean much about a person and I am sure she is nice. No one should
be ridiculed for their looks. But please have some sympathy with people who
feel uneasy looking at diseases (not a native speaker, probably the wrong
term).

~~~
StavrosK
"Conditions" is the word.

------
harvestmoon
Reddit is useful to me because I read subreddits that are interesting. Stuff
like /r/offmychest /r/confession can provide a unique perspective on life.

For discussing TV shows (which I have to admit, I enjoy), it's also quite
good. And if you are an artist making music, I honestly think Reddit would be
one of the best ways to succeed if you carefully researched the right
subreddits.

So it's not all bad. The default pages are generally quite brain-dead,
particularly "adviceanimals."

------
sanskritabelt
Reddit is great if you're looking for a place for: * Mens Rights Advocacy *
Bitcoin chat * Creepshots * Jailbait creepshots

~~~
tyrust
You really haven't contributed anything to this conversation beyond further
emphasizing the fact that people in comment sections say inane things for
attention.

Reddit is just a platform on which any community can form. If you have a
problem with certain subreddits reddit is not your problem, humanity is.

~~~
sanskritabelt
Communities don't form in a vacuum, site ownership abetted, if not encouraged,
the reddit culture:

A few years ago, while Jailbait was still going strong, Reddit's
administrators gave him a special one-of-a-kind "pimp hat" badge to honor his
contributions to the site, which he proudly displayed on his profile. Brutsch
said he was even in the final running for a job as a customer support
representative at Reddit last year.

([http://gawker.com/5950981/unmasking-reddits-violentacrez-
the...](http://gawker.com/5950981/unmasking-reddits-violentacrez-the-biggest-
troll-on-the-web))

~~~
tyrust
Reddit has pretty much always had a laissez-faire approach to administration
of subreddits. As long as it was legal it was ok. I really don't want to touch
the violentacrez case, but he was given that award in recognition for serving
as a moderator of a boatload of subreddits. It's not like the admins said
"nice CP, here's a pimp hat".

And once again you are simply ignoring the fact that Reddit is not one entity.
There is no single "reddit culture".

~~~
ceol
There is. There is a single culture that tends to upvote the same things over
and over again.

Reddit.com is defined by its default subreddits — its front page. The fact
that other subs exist doesn't negate the very real culture that has risen to
the top of the site like the layer of oil on a cold, disgusting bowl of soup.

------
elleferrer
The internet can be a harsh place at times, but there are equally good people
who will have your back, I'm glad she was able to embrace that.

"I am resilient. I've got thick skin. These are just words on a screen. I am
safe and loved, strong and intelligent, and can fight back with awesome."

------
democracy
I really admire this person, the way she can handle the situation as a smart
intelligent experienced person, the best of luck to her and her friends and
family - their love and friendsheip is what matters really, nothing else.
Merry Christmas!

------
buckbova
> "What does your vagina look like?"

That's probably a natural question for the curious 12 yr olds of reddit to be
asking. I wouldn't take offense.

------
rfnslyr
Just COMPLETELY ignore it.

I truly believe after spending so much time on Reddit I became a worse person
by being exposed to the same regurgitated/top voted opinions on things nobody
should be talking about unless qualified (which you can't verify). I realized
after a few years after taking an objective look at my life how much I had
changed. If you dwell in a medium, you tend to absorb it, and that's the only
medium I dwelled in. It's taken me quite awhile to get back to being a normal,
nice, human being, sometimes I still slip up in real life. Every topic I've
been exposed to ad nauseam on Reddit that I experience in real life, I have to
consciously drop all my preconceptions on the topic that I developed online
and look at it with a fresh mind, it's slowly helping.

It's a podium for anyone who has an unqualified opinion to suddenly voice it
for no real reason. That, combined with the broken upvote system promoting
terrible content is a recipe for disaster.

"Reddit: the front page of an on going Dunning-Kruger effect study".

You don't stand to gain anything from Reddit. The comments are largely
terrible unless you visit very niche subreddits that are moderated and/or have
verified users. You can argue that some smaller subreddits have really good
content, but do they REALLY? Maybe you'll find a few cool links, some good
comments, and an odd article or two.

The reality is, nobody who has a credible opinion on something is going to
bother wasting time having in depth conversations on an anonymous message
board, so how good can the content quality possibly get?

I realized how bad Reddit was when I started following comment threads and
analysis on other websites on he same articles as Reddit. What was upvoted as
total truth (top comment) on certain articles was just scraping the bottom of
the barrel. It's basically: hunt for topic -> scrape some shit off the
internet (be it wikipedia or whatever site) -> loosely compose it into some
shit essay everyone will upvote with a strong ideal behind it -> top comment.
This goes for every Reddit thread.

I'm mad and disappointed in myself for wasting so many years on it.

It's a shit flinging contest determined by fake points called "karma" that
people, for some odd reason, REALLY REALLY care about, mitigating any hope for
a quality discussion.

Great response OP.

edit: toned down the vulgarity of the original post

edit2: My comment is towards the default subreddits, not small niche
subreddits that you have to hunt for yourself to find.

~~~
corresation
"The comments are always terrible. You can argue that some smaller subreddits
have really good content, but do they really?"

Yes, they really do. And no, the comments aren't always terrible. You can't
simply make absurdly absolute statements and contrived caricatures and expect
them to fly.

You seem to have a deep emotional investment in Reddit, as if you put
unrealistic expectations in it and now you strike out like a bitter ex-lover
(alternately that you go karma bombed, turning you into a one-man anti-Reddit
squad).

Reddit is a large site with a lot of diverse people. Many subs are not my cup
of tea (/r/wtf is the domain of teenagers), but many others make for an
entertaining and often information diversion.

I enjoy it. So do a lot of other people.

~~~
rfnslyr
My post was a bit emotional yeah, just wasted way too much time on it and it
shaped me in a bad way.

There are some great posts/comments in very niche subreddits, but when you
compare that to the entirety of the website, it's a very very small outlier.

Read my comment as if you are only subbed to the defaults, since that's where
OP's picture was posted, that's what I'm arguing.

The existence of a few rare good comments doesn't negate all the shit that
Reddit generates.

~~~
jmduke
To add to your point, I literally _never_ go to "www.reddit.com" at this point
(for reasons you outlined), but there's a lot of niche subreddits that I love
on Reddit itself (/r/hiphopheads, /r/nba, /r/nfl, /r/mfa). The key seems to be
heavy moderation and relatively small community size.

~~~
rfnslyr
_The key seems to be heavy moderation and relatively small community size._

I wish there was a site like Reddit/HN but on an invite/application basis only
to consistently provide good content.

~~~
JabavuAdams
[http://www.metafilter.com](http://www.metafilter.com)

------
fragsworth
How to defend yourself when your photo is ridiculed on Reddit: Explain to them
how they're ridiculing a disease they didn't realize you had.

If you are ridiculed doing something actually ridiculous, especially something
that's your own fault, you're going to have a much harder time defending it...

~~~
ahuth
Nobody should be ridiculing anybody for their looks, disease or not.

~~~
transitionality
Most of the time, your ridiculous looks are your own damn fault, and deserves
ridicule. Yes, this includes fatness.

~~~
corin_
Fatness is the one I can't stand people getting upset about (as in, upset when
people make fun of it). I'm fat, if anyone wants to take the piss then I'm
fine with it.

Sure, there can be situations out of your control - I, for example, do believe
that my genes aren't helpful to my weight based on family members and
anecdotal evidence, but at the end of the day if I really cared I'm perfectly
aware that I could be skinny, I just happen to chose to eat great food, and
too much of it, and do far too little exercise.

If you mock me for being gay I might be offended, but for being fat.. that's
my own damn fault, I know how to stop being fat but I don't care enough to do
it, currently. If anyone wants to laugh at that, give a shit,

~~~
ahuth
There are a couple reasons I DO have a problem with people making fun of
'fatness.'

1) It's a lot easier to get out of shape and overweight, than it is to get
back into shape.

2) Being overweight can cause emotional problems that make it even harder lose
weight. Laughing at someone worsens these problems.

Having said this, I guess it's human nature. I find myself at times making fun
of people (in my head) for how they dress or look. At least I'm trying to
overcome that kind of thing, though. Doesn't seem like most people even
recognize shortcomings/try to get better.

~~~
transitionality
It's easier to run any system improperly than properly. This is the case for
all systems. It's not unique to the human body, and it's not unique to diet
and exercise.

