
Untitled - tomp
http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/
======
tomp
_let me give a brief summary of what I am trying to say:

1\. There are a lot of really nasty stereotypes perpetuated about nerds,
especially regarding how they are monsters, nobody can love them, and they are
too disgusting to have relationships the same way other people do.

2\. Although both men and women suffer from these stereotypes, men really do
have a harder time getting relationships, and the experience is not the same.

3\. Many of the people suffering from these stereotypes are in agreement that
it is often self-identified feminists who push them most ardently, and that a
small but vocal contingent of feminists seem to take special delight in making
nerds’ lives worse.

4\. You cannot define this problem away with the word “patriarchy”.

5\. You cannot define this problem away by saying that because Mark Zuckerberg
is a billionnaire, nerds are privileged, so they already have it too good. The
Jews are a classic example of a group that were both economically advantaged
in a particular industry, but also faced unfair stereotypes.

6\. Whether women also have problems, and whether their problems are even
worse, is not the point under discussion and is not relevant. Women can have a
bunch of problems, but that doesn’t mean it is okay for any feminists to shame
and bully nerds.

7\. Nerds are not uniquely evil, they are not especially engaged in oppressing
women, and they are not driving women out of Silicon Valley. Even if they
were, “whenever they choose to open up about their private suffering” is not
the time to talk about these things.

8\. “Entitlement” is a uniquely bizarre insult to level at nerds given that by
most of the term’s usual definitions nerds are some of the most untitled
people there are.

9\. The feminist problem of nerds being desperate and not having any social
skills (and therefore being creeps to women) is the same as the nerd problem
of nerds being desperate and not having any social skills (and therefore
having to live their life desperate and without social skills). Denying the
problem and yelling at nerds who talk about it doesn’t help either group.

10\. The nerd complaint on this issue is not “high school girls rejected us in
the past when we were lonely and desperate,” it is “some feminists are shaming
us about our loneliness and desperation in the past and present and openly
discussing how they plan to do so in the future.” Nobody with principles is
angry at the girls who rejected them in the past and this is a giant red
herring. If you don’t believe any feminists are shaming anyone, then say so;
don’t make it about little Caitlin in seventh-grade._

~~~
maxerickson
#1 is a hang up "nerds" have about themselves, not something other people
spend any time thinking about.

~~~
tomp
If you skim the original essay, there are plenty of links (highlighted blue,
they're quite easy to find) to articles that argue exactly #1 (pretty obvious
by their titles).

Also, my (admittedly anecdotal) evidence of being bullied in school confirms
this as well (and is echoed by many other geeks).

~~~
maxerickson
You think people get bullied because others think they are disgusting
monsters? People get bullied because bullies are insecure too (which is _not_
an apology for bullies, but they are acting out insecurity more than they are
worried about how disgusting their targets are).

I too fit the socially awkward bullied nerd stereotype...

~~~
tomp
I don't care what others _actually_ think, I care what words and stereotypes
they use _when bullying_.

