
Carrier Group in Recent UFO Encounters Had New Air Defense Tech - cascom
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28305/carrier-group-in-recent-ufo-encounters-had-new-air-defense-tech-just-like-nimitz-in-2004-incident
======
dmix
Funny, a first deployment of a highly complex networked software driven system
developed by gov contractors, being admittedly used by newly trained people (a
training program called COMPUTEX as per the article), makes me even _more_
sceptical that it may simply be an error/anomaly rather than providing better
evidence of it being UFOs.

If this is indeed positive evidence, then the big question not asked was how
many of these sensors detected the object in real time? If it was just 2-3
from the same sources (ie, jets or circling surveillance planes in the same
area) then it's no different than technology from 2004 or earlier. Radar is
still radar. The fact they are all linked together helps with _real-time_
analysis. But in matters of UFO investigations their real-time
interconnectivity doesn't really add any additional validation. When a post-
incident analysis could simply reconstruct the moment by cross-checking
multiple unconnected sensors present at the time - as any investigative team
would have in prior eras.

The upgrades to the E-2C Hawkeye seem to be only related to the networking
functionality adding real-time analysis on top of the system rather than
providing better individual radar tracking. Unless I'm missing the part where
each sensor became more accurate individually regardless of realtime
networking or after-the-fact analysis?

Not to mention the whole uncertainty that first-deployment of new software
brings to the whole equation.

~~~
noetic_techy
Radar Contact + FLIR Contact+ Human Eyeball confirmation by two types aircraft
!= a technical anomaly.

Watch the recreation and the eyewitness testimony videos from multiple vantage
points.

[https://youtu.be/PRgoisHRmUE](https://youtu.be/PRgoisHRmUE) (recreation of
ONE of the west coast incident, starts at around 9:00 in)

[https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27666/what-the-hell-
is...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27666/what-the-hell-is..). (note
the embedded videos of testimonies)

[https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28231/multiple-
f-a-18-...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28231/multiple-f-a-18-..).
(new tech, east coast incident years later)

------
spookybones
When the stealth bomber was top secret and still being tested, most of the
army, air force, and navy was unaware of it. Something flying at such a high
altitude was considered impossible. Naturally, Air Force fighter pilots were
some of the first to observe it, and some of those pilots wondered out loud if
it was an alien encounter. No one at Area 51 corrected them. So, this could be
a similar scenario. It could even be the case that those working on this
unidentified flying object did not know the new radar tech was being tested.
The many branches of the DoD are not as coordinated as they may seem.

I still don’t believe there was unassisted visual confirmation. And if they
are using combined radar imagery, it seems that much more likely that a glitch
in one radar system would cause a glitch in all systems. Then again, I’m
heavily speculating.

~~~
WindowsFon4life
Do you mean SR-71 instead of the B2?

~~~
le-mark
Indeed, B-2 doesn't fly particularly high, this comment seems a bit
inaccurate.

~~~
mmorris
Probably meant the U-2.

~~~
InCesna14995
Never underestimate a Cessna 150 filled to the load-bearing-safety brim with
conspiratorial materials. #Area50995

------
gfodor
Skepticism means positing alternative theories that explain the evidence, not
coming up with less-extraordinary theories that contradict the evidence, which
is what most of the threads here do.

Super intelligent AI certainly seems plausible as a thing which could exist.
Fusion powered sub-light speed autonomous drones certainly seems like a thing
which could exist. Any super intelligent AI would take actions to ensure it's
preservation, and extraterrestrial (to it) civilizations confer x-risk.

My pet theory is that these things are real, and are a autonomous surveillance
and intervention system deployed by an extraterrestrial entity or civ (AI or
organic is irrelevant) to prevent an external threat in the form of a galaxy-
ending weapon. They are subluminal but such a system would have galaxy-wide
coverage in at worst a few tens of centuries. We will likely never know since
these things are so far beyond our ability to capture or analyze, but my
theory at least doesn't break physics.

The reason I like my theory is that one could imagine humanity building and
deploying such a system inductively, when we have the tech and determine the
largest x-risk to our civilization are external emerging civilizations
developing weapons or tech which could destroy the galaxy (perhaps
inadvertently, like a misplanned AI takeoff)

~~~
exabrial
> are a autonomous surveillance and intervention system

> they are subluminal

since we're talking crazy theories... how do they defeat the speed of
causality to relay information back home?

~~~
Recurecur
"how do they defeat the speed of causality to relay information back home?"

Why must 'they' (assumption there) 'defeat the speed of causality', exactly?

Even at light speed, the information will beat any physical threat to the home
region, permitting some kind of response.

Also, the idea that 'causality' is bound to the speed of light is, in my
opinion, simply a result of our limited understanding. Just as relativity
opened new vistas, it is likely a new theory explaining gravity, dark matter,
and dark energy will provide entirely new, fundamental understanding - and
possibly FTL communication/travel.

------
sheeshkebab
At first I thought these were just glitches in complex military imaging and
sensor software/hardware.

But then a more sane version of me took over and concluded that I’m looking at
aliens in YouTube videos.

~~~
threezero
Pilots made visual contact in at least two cases, so not just a sensor glitch
for those.

------
convivialdingo
I spent my childhood around New Mexico, my family also knew a handful of
scientists out at the labs. We heard a lot of funny stories.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if some gov tech was testing against the Navy.
But I also wouldn’t be surprised if we just don’t have a clue.

My uneducated, completely bonkers guesses would be plasma stealth drones or
multibeam lasers.

I knew several scientists in the 90s that worked on lasers to create floating
hotspots, weapons targeting, and to create artificial chaff.

Plasma stealth has also been in development by the Russians for a long time -
perhaps someone was testing such systems also. The idea is to inject plasma
around a craft - and also to possibly use it for propulsion in an
magnétohydrodynamique drive. Glowing white ball would be an apt description.

Again - it’s all purely speculative and sci-fi. I wouldn’t rule out aliens -
but it’s really the last possibility simply because the probability is
basically almost zero just due to distance, cost, and energy.

~~~
deepnotderp
My bet is also that it is a hypersonic plasma stealth drone.

Plasma injection also reduces drag and aerodynamic heating if done right _,
that would also explain the anomalous thermal signature.

_ especially at hypersonic velocities

Being a drone would explain accelerations that would kill humans.

~~~
Recurecur
"Being a drone would explain accelerations that would kill humans."

It doesn't explain:

    
    
      - Operations far from any support vehicles (no carrier like the F-18s had). Must be a nuclear/LENR/antimatter power source.
    
      - Going from hover to high supersonic/hypersonic. No current hypersonic platform has anything like that capability
    
      - The acceleration involved in the extremely rapid course change at the end of the one video has been estimated at "hundreds of Gs". That's far beyond the current highest performance missiles, which top out at a few tens of Gs. This is similar to several historical reports.
    
      - The lack of conventional wings, control surfaces or visible windows/sensors
    
      - The "field effect" visible around the object at times. There's no technology in the open literature like that.
    

I find these videos extremely convincing, and interesting!

request: Provide a way to do decent lists!

~~~
deepnotderp
I can't explain 2 and 3, but the rest can all be explained by plasma cloaking.

------
etrevino
So, the US was testing unknown and presumably expensive drone technology on
Carrier Air Groups? Why would they do that in a "live" situation with people
who would report it? I would think (and perhaps I'm wrong) that keeping
advanced craft secret would be in the US interest.

I don't buy the ET explanation and I don't buy this one either.

If it is real and it is a craft it's much more likely it was a state actor
testing us.

~~~
deepnotderp
To test whether or not the advanced craft can be shot down?

If the test was conducted on, say the Chinese military, then it would be very
geopolitically dangerous it was shot down.

------
stevenhuang
For these encounters to coincide with the first tests of next gen tech, it's
entertaining to imagine these "aliens" were caught unawares and subsequently
improved their stealth posture as a result of us seeing things we're not
supposed to.

Some hubris in that, but if they really are just automated probes, they may be
reactionary in nature and adjust behaviour accordingly, and not, say,
analyzing our comms and behaving "intelligently"... Of course it could be that
they just want to be seen.

Or that we really are imagining things--the ghostly artifacts of a complex
system with kinks not yet sorted out.

------
Abishek_Muthian
Then probably it is a UAV from another U.S. DoD dept acting as a Red Team to
test the 'New Air Defense Tech'.

~~~
remarkEon
With what kind of UAV, though? Some exotic one that can't easily be
identified?

~~~
Abishek_Muthian
All we can say from the F-18 Pilot's accounts are they're 'out of this world'
type of UAV!

Jokes apart, my rationale is if it is really an alien space craft then U.S.
Govt has no reason to keep it quiet especially when its NASA is spending
Billions to find some bacteria in neighbouring planet.

More over, 'Alien revelation' would come handy as an effective distraction for
ongoing issues. Not that it hasn't been done earlier.

------
Shivetya
Well this level of sensor capability would be an ideal real world means of
testing the latest stealth, aircraft, and detection, technologies all at once.

It also reveals just how blind even the best equipped ships are and that you
need to be able to integrate so many resources at once to have real security.

------
typeformer
If you think this stuff is wild wait till more people hear about UAP’s turning
off Nukes, with military eyewitnesses verifying that it happened on multiple
occasions...

~~~
WrtCdEvrydy
What?

~~~
blincoln
typeformer is referring to Robert Hastings' claim that military personnel
witnessed UFOs disabling nuclear weapons, e.g.
[https://www.livescience.com/10146-ufos-disarm-nuclear-
weapon...](https://www.livescience.com/10146-ufos-disarm-nuclear-
weapons.html).

~~~
dmix
> Hastings [who makes a living selling UFO books] claims that a global
> conspiracy exists in which all major governments have been covering up
> evidence of UFOs for decades.

mhm

------
karmakaze
The heat signature is interesting. When seen in black mode, the hot center is
surrounded by a white cooler-than-atmosphere halo. What could be the use of
such a thermoelectric effect? Or if it's a by-product what else could be
causing it?

~~~
macawfish
Hm... Cryogenic hydrogen?

~~~
remarkEon
Tin foil hat time: What kind of exotic or near-future engine tech could
produce a signature like that? (No I don't think it's Aliens ... if it's
Aliens, they'd have the means to travel interstellar distances and if they can
do that then surely they can keep themselves hidden).

~~~
karmakaze
Not suggesting either way but the logic is flawed. Presupposes desire to be
hidden. Possible that the entire purpose is to gently assert presence.

------
mannykannot
So, in at least a couple of cases, these events coincide with the deployment
of new air defense tech with advanced information processing capabilities? One
should at least consider the possibility that they are machine-generated
artifacts, possibly responses to unusual conditions that have mundane
explanations.

~~~
api
Wasn't there optical and IR footage? Seems unlikely that many discrete systems
would all have ghosting artifacts at the same time and location.

Or maybe I am mixing reports. I've read about several recently.

~~~
NikkiA
The footage was IR only...

The pilots audio discussed 'seeing' the things, but it's not 100% assertained,
except via post-hoc assertion by the rights owner of the video, that the
pilots aren't referring to what they see on their MFDs.

~~~
wbl
There is no rights owner. It was made by government employees in the course of
official duties hence uncopyrighted.

------
yummypaint
Its kindof jarring how the article is written like a series of marketing
bullet points. Where is the discussion of possible atmospheric effects or
other explanations?

------
bitL
1) are owners of Earth returning to harvest the crop (of plastics?)?

2) are the authors of /r/outside beta-testing a new faction?

3) are humans from the future messing around, then looking up incidents in
history books and competing with each other who made a bigger splash?

4) is there a group of humans with so much advanced technology and science
that the rest of us are just neanderthals in comparison?

~~~
HeWhoLurksLate
#2 I forgot that that was a thing. Makes sense.

#3 seems existentially _hard_ to prove- and it seems like half the competition
would be getting cold, hard evidence that _they_ did it- recording themselves
doing whatever at a much higher resolution than possible _might_ work.

#4 Makes sense. Maybe the earth is actually flat, and they got to the other
side of it? [/s, obviously]

------
zyxzevn
We had foo-fighters in the second World War. Not much has changed.

~~~
blincoln
Agreed. It would be neat if it were aliens, but it's probably some sort of
uncommon atmospheric/environmental effect[1] that didn't show up on less-
advanced radar. I'm no physicist, but I'm thinking something like a pocket of
plasma trapped by air pressure or the Earth's magnetic field. The "flying away
at high speed" effect is probably caused when whatever trapped the plasma
destabilizes.

[1] e.g.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_(lightning)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_\(lightning\))

~~~
instantwhat
That makes no sense. Testimony from the pilots who intercepted the object
indicates the object demonstrated awareness of their presence.

Watch this video of a U.S. Navy F/A-18 squadron commander (not an average
military pilot) who intercepted one of the objects and engaged in aerial
maneuvers with it. He describes intercepting the object, flying about one mile
away from it, with the object demonstrating awareness of his presence by
mirroring his maneuvers. Then he flew aggressively at it, and the object
responded by rapidly flying away. It then showed up on radar at the position
he was returning to, where he had been flying a combat air patrol before he
was sent to intercept the object, indicating that the object had been aware of
his aircraft all along.

The commander also said that the flying object appeared to be maneuvering
about 20,000 feet over an unknown object which was submerged just beneath the
ocean surface.

[https://youtu.be/jCaruUtiPHo](https://youtu.be/jCaruUtiPHo)

Other testimony recounted at [https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-
zone/27666/what-the-hell-is...](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-
zone/27666/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-ufos-and-department-of-defense)
mentions that the ships had been tracking these objects on radar for a few
days already, with them appearing suddenly on radar at 80,000 feet, rapidly
descending vertically to 20,000 feet, and then flying straight up again,
disappearing past 80,000 feet. The ships went to non-drill battle stations
while the aircraft intercepted the object.

~~~
blincoln
> the object demonstrated awareness of their presence

That's certainly one interpretation.

> with the object demonstrating awareness of his presence by mirroring his
> maneuvers. Then he flew aggressively at it, and the object responded by
> rapidly flying away.

Sounds exactly like the historical reports of "foo fighters" to me.[1]

Look, I love the idea of aliens, but try to apply Occam's Razor here. What's
less complicated?

a) An uncommon, but natural phenomenon in which a ball of plasma (or similar)
is temporarily attracted to fast-moving, metallic aircraft.

b) An advanced, spacefaring race (or races) travel to Earth and spend over 70
years pulling pranks on military pilots.

Again, I'm no physicist, but consider something like walking through a cloud
of flying dandelion seeds. The air currents created by the person walking
through the cloud create little vortices that tend to pull the seeds in their
"wake" toward them. That doesn't mean the dandelion seeds are "aware" of the
person they're being pulled toward.

Consider also something like flux pinning, where two objects can be made to
behave as if joined, even though they're separated by several centimeters or
more.

"Red sprites" and similar are absolutely unreal-looking. If I saw one without
knowing what it was, I'd be sure it was some kind of advanced technology too.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter),
specifically "Pilots and aircrew reported that the objects flew formation with
their aircraft and behaved as if they were under intelligent control, but
never displayed hostile behavior."

~~~
instantwhat
> Look, I love the idea of aliens, but try to apply Occam's Razor here. What's
> less complicated?

I said nothing about aliens--you did. In fact, the only interpretation I
offered was that the object appeared to demonstrate awareness of the aircraft
sent to intercept it. Everything else I wrote was simply reporting the
observations of the pilots and naval radar.

> An uncommon, but natural phenomenon in which a ball of plasma (or similar)
> is temporarily attracted to fast-moving, metallic aircraft.

Did you watch the video I linked? Your explanation bears no resemblance to the
phenomenon observed by the Navy: Radar contacts were observed over several
days demonstrating bizarre yet consistent behavior. When an aircraft was sent
to intercept, the pilot made visual contact with two objects, one beneath the
ocean surface and one maneuvering erratically 20,000 feet in the air. The
airborne object began mirroring the pilot's movements and then retreated when
the pilot flew at it. Radar contact with the object was then established 60
miles away at the position the pilot was returning to, as if the object was
anticipating the pilot's intended movement.

In no way does the reported phenomenon bear any resemblance to "a ball of
plasma attracted to fast-moving, metallic aircraft."

> An advanced, spacefaring race (or races) travel to Earth and spend over 70
> years pulling pranks on military pilots.

I have not speculated on the provenance of the phenomenon--you have.

> Again, I'm no physicist, but consider something like walking through a cloud
> of flying dandelion seeds. The air currents created by the person walking
> through the cloud create little vortices that tend to pull the seeds in
> their "wake" toward them. That doesn't mean the dandelion seeds are "aware"
> of the person they're being pulled toward.

The charitable interpretation of your comments is that you haven't watched the
video and listened to the commander's testimony--and why not? Alternatively,
you have, but you're still posting these interpretations that bear no relation
to the reported observations--and why would you do that?

~~~
blincoln
I've watched all of the raw footage and either listened to or watched the
testimony. I'm sure the pilots saw something. It's very easy to see awareness
and intent where there is none.

As I said, it sounds exactly like WWII pilots describing "foo fighters". There
were many, many reports of those in WWII, and they're completely
indistinguishable from these accounts. It would be extremely difficult at best
to build such a thing using today's technology. Probably essentially
impossible with 1940s technology.

The most likely explanation, therefore, is that it's some sort of natural
phenomenon. Something that looks unearthly, and that seems to be more likely
to be encountered by military aircraft than civilian aircraft. Maybe that's
due to altitude, speed, composition of the aircraft, area of operation, etc.

There are really only two main classes of alternative beyond that:

\- Someone active in the 1940s had the ability to make supersonic glowing
drone aircraft, and has managed to keep that technology completely secret ever
since. \- Aliens (or equivalent).

Neither of these seem particularly likely versus "atmospheric phenomenon".

------
jtolds
My theory is that these UFOs aren't physical but are projections from
elsewhere, literally like a TV projector. If two sources direct waves at the
same location correctly, perhaps the interference can make the air molecules
emit light like ships? Some audio advertising is starting to do this with
sound waves
([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_from_ultrasound](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_from_ultrasound)).
These projected ships would look like they could defy physics with how they
fly.

Are these UFO sightings always over water? Maybe there's some submarine
source?

~~~
deepnotderp
We can already do that with multibeam lasers.

------
new4thaccount
"And by intention or chance, this is exactly what happened."

Funny how the author is hinting that they believe the exercise might have been
intentionally setup to see how the systems could handle the UFO.

~~~
myko
Right, it's kind of reasonable to think the government might want to test
their advanced radar capabilities against their advanced surveillance /
stealth craft.

~~~
new4thaccount
I have mixed feelings on this one.

The craft reported by pilots seems to be far beyond anything we're currently
aware of as civilians. Of course we've had skunkworks programs before like the
SR-71 and the Stealth Fighter that were amazing craft in their own right and
unknown to the public for years, but this isn't making a rocket ship or a
plane fly that has some weird edges. The tic-tac object (as I understand the
interviews) implies significant strides in materials science, propulsion, and
probably many other things as well. Is it really possible for all of that to
happen entirely underwraps? Or do the other major military powers have similar
capabilities?

If the pilots had just reported something like a really fast plane with an
unusual design, then the US testing our new monitoring systems against the
plane makes perfect sense.

------
deepnotderp
So my best bet explanation for a non-UFO explanation is a hypersonic plasma
cloaked, MHD controlled drone.

Control despite visible wings or aerodynamic surfaces, at will invisibility to
radar, anomalous thermal signatures, hypervelocity at relatively low
altitudes, accelerations that will kill humans, can all be explained by this.

However, I will admit that the extremely high reported acceleration afaik is
not something we know of. Perhaps solid rocket boosters?

------
aussieguy1234
UFOs are real. But that doesn't mean aliens are. More than likely a foreign
country has invented advanced technology and is keeping it secret. The
sightings all happened near the coast, right where you'd expect advanced
recconissance aircraft to be.

~~~
myko
The thing that really freaks me out about these stories are that they sound
similar to what my grandfather (who I always thought was a bit crazy) told me
he saw when he was in the Air Force. He told me he saw a red tic tac shaped
object flying in the sky off the coast somewhere in Asia that caused the water
underneath it to bubble, and it eventually flew off faster than any aircraft
he had seen previously.

It seems more likely these are some advanced man-made aircraft it's just
eerily similar to my GF's story that would have happened decades ago (maybe in
the 60's? I'm not really sure exactly when he was in the Air Force).

------
milesvor
Second Foundation

~~~
deepaksurti
For more information about Second Foundation, see [1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Foundation)

------
bhouston
I think it is a system malfunction when everything comes together.

------
typeformer
I hope this puts it to rest for all the doubters here. Hell, you think the HN
crowd would start to get excited about the possibility of seeing ET code
soon...

~~~
locknumber110
No disrespect intended, but none of this proves anything. A few super-low-res
videos that could be faked by anyone with an installation of Blender on a
computer made sometime in the past decade? Scratchy mumbly pilot voiceovers
that could be performed by anyone with audio recording technology made
sometime within the past half-century? An article co-written by a frequent
Coast-to-Coast guest? Alien visitation would indeed by exciting, but I'm going
to need more tangible evidence. Preferably from more objective and
dispassionate authors.

On a related note, we live in an era where billions of people are within arms'
reach of internet-connected HD-or-better video cameras, 24/7\. If ET is indeed
visiting, it'd be front-page on Youtube within minutes.

------
lend000
Any interesting anecdotes on HN? I haven't seen anything like this
unfortunately, but I've heard enough stories from people I consider reliable
to believe that some of these UFO sightings are ET ships/drones monitoring us.
All the stories seem to have incredible accelerations involved and chaotic
movements as a common theme.

