
Tesla Model S and Model 3 comparison - andruby
https://www.tesla.com/compare?redirect=no
======
dgudkov
I couldn't stop feeling like this page is nothing else but a promotion for
"Model S" which is "superior and now" rather than the other car which is
"inferior and 1 year later". Price would've been the biggest (and only) reason
for "Model 3" but it's not shown on the page. Added extra details for "Model
3" is a nice trick to boost virality of the promotion aimed at its target
audience -- potential Model 3 buyers. Well done, Tesla marketing. Well done.

~~~
arscan
I think this is in reaction to the confusion over Model 3 being the "next
version" of the Model S. People might be holding off on buying the S because
they think that the 3 is better.

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845278449811939328](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/845278449811939328).

When asked why he named it Model 3 in that thread, his response was: "Because
I was a dumb idiot and didn't realize at the time that it would cause
confusion".

This mistake seems to have stuck with him -- he made a joke about it two
months later when talking about naming his boring machines:
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/860378029515718660](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/860378029515718660)

~~~
GuB-42
It is should have been Model E, like it was originally intended.

But I heard that some people didn't like the idea of S/E/X...

~~~
Tostino
No, it was because Ford holds the trademark for Model E:
[http://insideevs.com/ford-motor-company-filed-for-model-e-
tr...](http://insideevs.com/ford-motor-company-filed-for-model-e-trademark-
rights/)

~~~
anindha
Why not drop Model from the name? Porsche 911 vs Porsche Model 911. Tesla S vs
Tesla Model S.

~~~
arcticfox
To me that looks more like a mistake from Porsche than an idea to replicate

~~~
function_seven
I set it as no more a mistake than "Boeing 747" is over "Boeing Model 747" or
"Mazda 626" or "Nissan GTR"

But "Tesla S" doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely.

~~~
aptwebapps
Turns into 'tessless'

------
unwind
Mods: pretty glaring typo in the title, it says "TELSA" and not "TESLA" (caps
for visibility). Please fix if possible, thanks.

------
andruby
I'm not sure what was already known.

This page shows both the model S and the model 3 side by side:

    
    
      Car length: 196.0" vs 184.4"
      0-60mph Acceleration: as quick as 2.3s vs 5.6s
      Range: 249-335 Miles Range (EPA) vs 215+ Miles Range
      Supercharging: Free Unlimited Supercharging vs Pay Per Use Supercharging
      Passengers: Seating for 5 Adults + 2 Children vs Seating for 5 Adults
      Cargo: 30 cu ft Front & Rear Trunk Cargo Volume vs 14 cu ft Front & Rear Trunk Cargo Volume
      Displays: Driver Display + 17" Touchscreen vs 15" Center Touchscreen
      Customization: 1,500+ configurations vs <100 configurations
      Delivery timing: 30 Days or less vs 1+ year

~~~
dgregd
No driver display in model 3? This will be a big disappointment for many
people.

~~~
iplaw
Almost every vehicle, even budget sub-compacts, have driver displays now. The
utilization of that display varies from nigh useless (odometer, oil minders,
etc.) to very useful (navigational directions, at-a-glance music selection via
steering wheel based controls, etc.).

Removing this display from the Model 3 seems like a design choice intended to
artificially distinguish and demote the Model 3 from the Model S.

~~~
freerobby
It's a design choice toward a self-driving world, where instantaneous road
notifications are less important to a person in a car than they are today.

~~~
iplaw
That's something that I hadn't considered. Have we received confirmation that
the Model 3 will be available with the optional full suite of self-driving
sensors?

On the Model S, this includes two high-priced options:

1\. Enhanced Autopilot ($5000) quadruples the number of cameras from 1 to 4
and adds 12 ultrasonic sonar sensors and additional computing power to crunch
the data.

2\. Full Self-Driving Capability ($3000) doubles the number of cameras from 4
to 8.

~~~
freerobby
Yeah, Tesla has confirmed that the Model 3 will have the same self-driving
hardware suite as S/X. No details yet on the software activation cost.

------
Roritharr
I'm really interested in the topspeed.

For german customers all the current gen EVs(Bolt/i3/Leaf/Ioniq) with a
topspeed of 140-150km/h are to my opinion not really save to drive on the
Autobahn as you don't have some speed buffer to overtake someone who's driving
120-130km/h fast enough.

If Tesla manages to give the Model 3 a top-speed of 200km/h that would be a
game-changer and make it a viable car for me. The Model S is viable in that
regard, just too expensive for me personally.

~~~
msh
Do you really need to overtake someone doing 130 km?

~~~
RandomBookmarks
No, at least not for me: My plan is buying the Model 3 and then engaging the
autopilot in such a case - and just travel behind whoever is driving with 130
km/h in front of me.

So for me - a reliable autopilot for the Autobahn is _much_ more important
than the top speed.

~~~
random314
My reply has been downvoted to oblivion. Let me try again.

1\. Tesla autopilot has a disengage rate of 182 in 550 miles. This cannot be
safe in anyway for any kind of driving [http://blog.caranddriver.com/in-the-
self-driving-race-waymo-...](http://blog.caranddriver.com/in-the-self-driving-
race-waymo-looks-to-be-way-out-in-front/)

2\. Apart from the fatalities there have been many other accidents with Tesla
[https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-
tes...](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/another-driver-says-teslas-
autopilot-failed-to-brake-tesla-says-otherwise/)

[http://grist.org/business-technology/whats-the-point-of-
self...](http://grist.org/business-technology/whats-the-point-of-self-driving-
cars-if-you-still-have-to-drive-them/)

3\. [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-
custo...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-customer-is-
always-wrong-tesla-lets-out-self-driving-car-data-when-it-suits)

4\. Check YouTube for any number of autopilot crashes

------
bitsoda
If you're one of the people who put down the $1K refundable deposit, how do
you feel about this page? I understand they're trying to push Model S sales,
but don't do it at the expense of customers willing to wait years and put a
hefty deposit down.

This strikes me as a rare misplay by Tesla. The Model 3 comes with a glass
roof standard so it's conveniently left out of the premium options section --
that's pretty misleading. By the tone of the spec table, you'd think a well-
equipped Corolla will be competitive with the Model 3.

~~~
hangonhn
I'm one of those people. I think the deposit was put down in a moment of
excitement, which has since died down quite a bit. Not only am I one of those
people who gave them a deposit, I'm also likely one of those people who they
meant to target: I drive a BMW 3-series, which would be the Model 3's main
competitor.

Now given all that, this display made me really not excited about the Model 3.
Electric car is nice but that's the only thing the Model 3 has going for it
when compared to the 3 series. I don't see them emphasizing self driving and
the acceleration is kind of just par for course, which shouldn't be the case
for an electric car. Given Tesla's reputation for a Spartan interior, what am
I getting out of it other than it being electric? The way I see it, I'm better
off waiting a few more years to see if things improve. My current 328i has
given me 5 years of good driving and no headache at all. Better integrating
with smartphones would be great but the latest 3-series offers that as an
option already.

So I have to wonder, why a Model 3 over a 3-series?

~~~
crush-n-spread
Personally I could never drive a ICE car when an equivalent electric vehicle
presented itself. I would never forgive myself. Everyone needs to get to
electric cars as soon as possible or we cook and die here on Earth. It makes
the arguments about the interior seem really tone deaf. Again, personally.

EDIT: Autopilot and constant software updates are huge.

~~~
hangonhn
I think your response is a bit narrow and takes my response out of context. It
also ignores a number of other issues to make electric cars look better than
they really are.

1\. Electric cars use a lot of copper and lithium. Mining of both are horribly
polluting. The worst EPA superfund site is a former copper mine. Lithium
mining is also pretty bad. However they are at least localized.

Electric cars still need power, most of which still comes from carbon emitting
sources. Until the world switches to renewables, electric cars still generate
carbon indirectly. California and other areas are much better about this but
Tesla Model 3 customers don't all live in CA.

2\. I was trying to answer the initial question from the perspective of a
potential customer of the Model 3. If someone is as passionate about the
carbon emitting issue as you, they can already do that with Nissan Leaf, BMW
i3, or Chevy Volt. They don't need to wait nor pay more for the the Tesla
Model 3. So within that context, the other things that make BM3 3-series what
it is matters. These things include the interior, etc.

3\. BMW already do updates over the air but not nearly at the rate that Tesla
does. Tesla really has embraced software whereas other carmakers treat it as
an overhead. I really hate how Autopilot is presented. It's not really self-
driving because they keep telling you to be involved in the driving process.
Until they can confidently say it's completely autonomous, it's more of a
novelty than an useful feature.

Edited: Kudos for being so passionate about the issue. It does matter to me
and which is why I still haven't completely dismissed the Model 3 as a choice.

~~~
crush-n-spread
Hey thanks for the reply. Sounds like you've also thought quite a bit about
this. I'd like to offer my thoughts on your numbered points.

For 1, you're right, we have to mine minerals to get these cars to work. I'm
not really sure how much more polluting the production of Lithium and copper
is compared to steel, but I assume it's bad. _However_ in the long term I
assume most of those polluting mining processes could be electric, could they
not? The point is that long term you could make mining those minerals
completely clean.

For 2, you're right there are plenty of electric cars you can buy right now.
And obviously Tesla interiors aren't terrific, we all know that. The main
reason I would choose Tesla is that EVs are their bread and butter. Chevy and
Nissan have an interest in keeping ICE cars going, so supporting them doesn't
align with the goal of making all cars electric long term.

For 3, you pretty much hit the nail on the head with Tesla being a software
company where other companies see software as a cost center. As far as the
autopilot goes, you should cut Tesla a little bit of slack, because while
their software is not true-to-the-name autopilot, they are also limited by
regulators with how much freedom they can give the driver to rely on the
software. So in many places where autopilot falls short of being true
autopilot, it's likely due to regulators holding them back.

So that's my take on things. I'm in my early 20s, and I take you to be a gen
Xer. You know, as an aside, I am really disheartened by Gen X's lack of
passion for climate change, no offense to you. I love HackerNews but I get a
little sad when I see people blow it off. I strongly believe that how we
handle this climate disaster will define humanity's fate in the 21st century,
but coming here people seem very relaxed about the whole thing. Oh well.
Cheers.

~~~
hangonhn
Haha. Not really, I'm actually a millenial (on the older end of the spectrum
though). I can see what you may think I'm Gen X though. It may surprise you to
know that I'm actually an environmentalist as well. I was definitely more
active and passionate about it when I was younger. Time and other priorities
have dulled my passion over time -- regrettably.

------
manav
Tesla is just desperately trying to push Model S sales this quarter. That's
probably also why they added back free supercharging to the Model S recently.

~~~
osteele
Model S supercharging for new vehicles is free only "with referral" \- if the
owner induces someone else to buy a vehicle too (tracked via a referral code).
They didn't add back free supercharging as part of the original purchase.

This only strengthens your main point.

~~~
ClassyJacket
It seems like it'd be pretty easy to find a referral, however.

~~~
Shank
I believe most Tesla YouTube videos include referral links as owners get a
monetary kickback for the referral. It wouldn't surprise me if enthusiasts
that haven't bought a Model S yet are going to go through one of those links
as opposed to an outright purchase from the website, especially if the
supercharging limits are known.

~~~
erikpukinskis
You can only do five referrals per code.

------
jedberg
I was at a Tesla dealership the other day, and the "sales associate" or
whatever they call them was really pushing me away from the Model 3. He said,
"Think of it like an electric Civic. It has no luxury features. The dashboard
is a flat board like a picnic table. It has no speedometer or any gauges in
front of the driver (it's all on the touchscreen in the middle). It doesn't
have air conditioning on the passenger side, or even a glove box. The entire
$30K of the car is for the battery."

It almost made me want to pull my Model 3 reservation.

~~~
cowmix
Which location was this?

~~~
MK_Dev
Nice try, Elon

------
Dwolb
As an operations person, I love how lean this car program is. They really
stripped the car program down to just the necessary components and options to
hit the price point they want. By limiting complexity I think they'll have the
best shot at achieving the huge undertaking of scaling car production.

------
lukasm
I'm being redirected to
[https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/](https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/)

EDIT:
[https://www.tesla.com/compare?redirect=no](https://www.tesla.com/compare?redirect=no)
works

~~~
andruby
It only shows the content on the US version. You'll need to pick "America" on
the popup.

------
moomin
I will happily be wrong about this, but isn't a lead time of a year for a
"mass market" vehicle a bit of an ask. Last time I bought a car the "lead
time" was a week.

~~~
danieldisu
I bought a car 2 months ago, and if you wanted to change even the simpler
thing the delivery time went to 1+ month. This was for the best selling brand
of cars in Spain that delivers almost 500.000 cars a year.

~~~
dx034
Seat?

------
magoon
It still needs to compete with a $35k-ish sedan, which will have a driver
display and power liftgate.

~~~
kylec
If given the choice I prefer a non-powered trunk opening. Opening and closing
a trunk provides no hardship for me, and doing it myself is much faster than
waiting for a mechanism.

~~~
FireBeyond
> much faster than waiting for a mechanism

Are you in a race to get going? I can't see you being in your seat, buckled
and engine started before the mechanism closing? Not being snarky, it's just
not that compelling a reason - to me.

~~~
Faaak
It just feels useless. I find it annoying to wait for a trunk to open when you
can just do it yourself and faster. One less thing to break, too.

------
nickik
Seems that many people think that the Model 3 is the 'new' and 'best' car.
They are constantly point out that if people want the best Tesla car it is
still the Model S.

------
sidcool
Best part:

>Although it will be our newest vehicle, Model 3 is not “Version 3” or the
most advanced Tesla. Like Model S, it is designed to be the safest car in its
class.

Gotta applaud the honesty.

~~~
dx034
They just try to push as many people as possible into Model S since margins
there are higher.

------
cyrildorsaz
I shared this note 2 months ago on my linkedin. Still valid today.
[https://www.linkedin.com/hp/update/6256148575126986752](https://www.linkedin.com/hp/update/6256148575126986752)

Tesla is facing a potential big problem. New buyers are holding off and are
waiting to see the final specs and price of the Model 3. This could harm a lot
Tesla sales until Elon Musk reveals to the public the Model 3.

I also believe Tesla did a mistake by naming the Model with a number. In the
mind of many people, 3 is what comes after 1 and 2 (S & X). People are used to
this because of the iPhone naming convention.

Tesla is reaffirming that the Model 3, despite its name, is not a version 3.
It will be the entry level of the brand and if people want to buy the best
performing car that Tesla can produce, they should buy a S or a X now.

~~~
ltdanimal
I disagree. While there may be some that are holding off, they will know the
specs in the next couple of months. At that time those people will be queued
up and either buy the S,X or the 3, and totals sales wont be impacted at all

------
audunw
Is it normal for a car company to make a luxury model and an economic model
that looks so similar?

I'm wondering if that's one of the reasons they feel the need to put up this
comparison: they're not differentiating much on external looks, so they have
to make it really clear that they're differentiating on features.

~~~
bhauer
Virtually all near-luxury to luxury manufacturers do exactly this.

For these two Tesla models in particular, the headlights and trunk line are
key differences between the 3 and S, and are clearly identified by
enthusiasts. But the majority of the design is part of the brand's consistent
motif, making them look very similar to laypeople.

To laypeople, the BMW 3 looks nearly identical to the 5; the A3 looks nearly
identical to the A6; the C-class looks nearly identical to the E-class; the
ATS looks nearly identical to the CTS; the XE looks nearly identical to the
XF; and so on.

------
iplaw
There is a misconception that the Model 3 is the most advanced Tesla model
simply because it is the newest Tesla model. This was cannibalizing the sales
of the Model S more than Tesla expected it to. Buyer who could afford a Model
S or Model X were waiting for the Model 3 because they were under the mistaken
belief that the Model 3 would offer all the newest, cutting edge technologies
and self-driving capabilities.

As Musk said via Twitter, the Model S is on Gen. 4, and continues to offer the
most advanced technologies.

That said, most people are waiting for the Model 3 because they can't (or do
want to) afford a $100,000-$165,000 (with the self-driving packages) vehicle.

~~~
johnward
I really want to meet the person that thinks a $35k car is going to be better
than a $100k car...

~~~
vkou
Well, there seems to be a misconception that there are hordes of people who
are legitimately confused about the subject.

------
havella
The salient difference is the free use of supercharger for Model S.

~~~
XJOKOLAT
Hmm, in my case, not at all. Depends on your location and use case.

In my London situation, 95% of my journeys will be within 50 miles easily.

I imagine it's more of an issue in the US and similar.

~~~
gutnor
In my London situation, 80% of my journeys will be within 20 miles.

However, I don't have a garage or even a house. I park on the street and I
would need at least 1 weekly trip to some charging station.

In the 5% times I go over that distance, I will need to stop to charge when
leaving and coming back ( considering I have never driven in the direction of
a SuperCharger, so the only one available is in London )

So well, it was already a stretch to adapt my lifestyle to accomodate a Tesla,
this missing feature is like a mail from Musk explaining me I'm definitively
not the target demographic for his car.

~~~
XJOKOLAT
Accepted, I wouldn't want to be solely dependant on a supercharger. I'm not
even sure I need a supercharger. Has to be home-charging for me.

It's possible, at this point in time, that maybe you aren't the demographic. I
wouldn't blame Musk for that, really. More of an city infrastructure issue. I
mean, I don't see a huge push towards generic charging points all over the
city despite things moving in that direction.

There was some green deal thing a year or two ago where they were subsidising
charging points at home ... of course, they scrapped that ... I guess that
wouldn't help you anyway.

Maybe you're better off with a hybrid and get a Tesla when either the city
charging situation improves or your home situation changes.

~~~
gutnor
> I mean, I don't see a huge push towards generic charging points all over the
> city despite things moving in that direction.

In London at least, the push is to get less car on the road, regardless if
they are electric or not. There is no need to encourage electric adoption,
only discourage cars and discourage more the one that are not electric.

I had a breakdown earlier this year and managed just fine over 2 months
without the car. We fixed it because there is just no convenient way to go see
the family or move children around easily and safely.

The fix for that however is probably coming from a combination of Uber-like
services and automated car rental ( as long as they get to your home and back
to the rental lot, you can manage the rest of the way ), rather than personal
car ownership electric or otherwise.

We are not quite there yet, but considering my last car lasted me 15 years and
counting, if I have a next one, it will be my last.

edit: BTW, no blaming Musk. It's not his fault if his products are desirable
outside his target demographic.

------
S_A_P
I think musk dropped the ball here. A decontented 35-40k model 3 should be
available. They should also allow you to option the price up for luxury and
performance like the A4/S4/RS4 or 320/328/335/m3. That should make this
vehicle both profitable and more aspirational.

~~~
imron
> That should make this vehicle both profitable and more aspirational.

Don't want to be too aspirational until it's actually available for sale.
Otherwise everyone aspiring to own one will just wait.

~~~
S_A_P
I'm not sure that most car buyers in that price range actually wait. People
buying a 40k car probably need it as a daily driver.

------
davidpelayo
35k with no free use of supercharger, makes me think it doesn't worth it. I
don't want to buy model 3 to be only around my town.

That's the biggest downside, from my perspective.

~~~
bjelkeman-again
Paid for supercharging, where I live, is still cheaper than petrol. Filling at
home is about 1/5 of the price per km compared to an BMW 330i. If I would have
to do paid for supercharging it would still be less than half of the price for
a petrol km. [1]

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ddqln/fuel_co...](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6ddqln/fuel_cost_comparison_bmw_330i_vs_tesla_model_3/di28aco/?st=j365h3u0&sh=848dc74d)

------
mattei
I find it interesting that there is no mention of autopilot.

~~~
ganley
[http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/tesla-is-underselling-
autopil...](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/03/tesla-is-underselling-autopilot-
capabilities-on-model-3-says-analyst.html)

~~~
stupidhn
Option 1: Autopilot isn't where Tesla wants it, and they are trying hard to
get it up to snuff, since so much has been made about how far ahead of
everyone else Tesla is.

Option 2: In the opinion of a Tesla analyst who works for a bank that
underwrote Tesla capital raises, it's a strategic move because the Autopilot
is _so awesome_ that it will eat away at Model S sales, though the mechanism
by which that happens is unclear. And of course, Elon Musk is known for
keeping things close to the chest.

I mean, it _could_ be option 2, but I know where I'd put my money.

------
joshdance
This is all about managing expectations. Getting a model 3 is not getting a
mini model S. I like it, and the approach.

------
perseusprime11
Can 5 adults and 2 kids really fit in Model S?

~~~
ec109685
With 2 in the trunk, rear facing.

~~~
perseusprime11
too bad they are taking this out for Model 3.

~~~
kylec
There's not enough room for it. The Model 3 is much smaller than the Model S.

------
GoatHerderson
Tesla customers remind me of Apple customers.

The model 3 better be high quality... it's part of their reputation, despite
tech challenges.

