
Masks4All: Wear a mask to stop the spread of Coronavirus (Jeremy Howard) - roi
https://masks4all.co/
======
dragontamer
So, here's some information I've been seeing about masks.

1\. After breathing in a mask for a while, the outside is now "potentially
contaminated" with COVID19. Treat the outside of a mask as if it were
infected.

Do NOT touch the mask while using it. Do NOT rub your eyes, etc. etc. Do NOT
put on the mask backwards. It is recommended to color-code the inside and
outside to make it easier to see.

2\. There are a ton of discussions about how to disinfect a cloth mask.
Kitchen equipment is commonly recommended. Boiling the mask, letting it sit in
the oven for some time, etc. etc. You only need to raise the temperature to
~212F or so (boiling) to disinfect. (maybe lower, but boiling is easy because
the bubbling water serves as a temperature gauge).

There may be easier chemical treatments, such as bleach when you're washing
the cloth mask. But boiling is obviously safe.

\----------

Note that "N95" masks are only 95% effective against viruses (even if you did
everything correctly). Homemade masks will probably only reach 70% or maybe as
low as 50%. You aren't invulnerable, you just have a layer of protection on.

I think this "home made mask" idea is very good. We need to leave the N95
masks for professionals, because the USA has a mask shortage (and N95 masks
are disposable. One-time use).

Home-made masks can be reused through washing.

~~~
bmn__
Do not boil or steam respirator masks. It destroys the material and renders it
less effective, sometimes drastically so.

Instead disinfect them with dry heat in an oven or rice cooker.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22680799](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22680799)

~~~
dragontamer
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3373043/)

Perhaps my advice is specific to repurposed T-shirt masks then. But this study
boiled the masks before testing and use.

The study was designed for poorer countries without as much infrastructure.
Which is why the materials are so simple and the methods crude. But those
attributes are very useful for the DIY community.

------
a9h74j
Per Chris Martenson[1], three reasons for every person to wear a mask:

\- Stops infected people [including asymptomatic] from expelling infectious
particles.

\- Helps remind you not to touch your face [and precludes direct touch to
mouth and nose--where mucus membranes are vulnerable].

\- Much better chance of a low inoculum [a smaller initial viral load results
in less severe symptoms].

[1] [https://youtu.be/i6Gy9nPAQE0?t=1988](https://youtu.be/i6Gy9nPAQE0?t=1988)

~~~
GordonS
> Helps remind you not to touch your face

Hmm, I'm not sure about this one. Going to the pharmacy today, I noticed some
people wearing masks, and just in the short time I saw them, many were
adjusting/fiddling with their masks.

~~~
joering2
Mask will stop viruses getting through. Definitely adjusting mask is less
hazardous than not wearing one and touching your face. Its interesting for me
to just now notice how everyone constantly touches thier face all the time in
some way or another.

In this attempt by the US government to stop this pandemic I found their
suggestion not to wear mask the most disgenuine of all, especially knowing
that countries with high mask wear awareness see this virus much more under
control. In the same paragraph they already express they really need those
masks for themselves so they don’t want you to hoard. Another argument was
they only help when you sick. So all medical personel is sick? What a BS! Even
more when they know you may be asymptomatic for up to 9 days.

The only thing I can think of equal to this would be if during HIV outbreak
they were to tell you not to use condoms at all because study shows they don’t
protect exact 100% times, and you can cut your member with your nail while you
putting the rubber on, making it more prone to infections than when you’re
actually wearing one.

Government really messed up on this one. Once the dust settles it will
probably go into history books how our government suggestion not to buy/wear
mask caused USA to be #1 in statistics.

~~~
GordonS
To be clear, I'm not disputing that masks could stop people expelling or
inhaling infectious particles - it's just the claim about not touching your
face that doesn't ring true to me.

I do however think that, in general, masks are more needed by healthcare
workers. They are on the frontline of COVID-19, and have _no choice_ but to
get up close to infected patients - most normal people are able to practise
social distancing.

------
graposaymaname
Quoting from the WHO/emergencies website[1]

> If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a
> person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.

The World Health Organization still recommends that you wear masks only if
you're taking care of someone with COVID-19. Why is it so?

Like if the evidence is so clear, why aren't they advising the general public
about this? (PS. non-native english speaker, ignore poor english)

[1][https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2...](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks)

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
The WHO is, unfortunately, not a reliable source. They've repeatedly lied
throughout the course of this pandemic. This is probably a well-intentioned
one to preserve the global supply of masks, unlike previous lies which served
only to make China look good, but the bottom line is that you shouldn't trust
what they have to say.

~~~
eden_hazard
CDC has said the same. Now people defend them saying they lied because they
didn't want the public to hoard them but mask supply chains have been effected
since probably January. I went to multiple Home Depots (upstate NY) end of
February and they all told me they've been out of stock for more than a month.
We couldn't hoard them even if we wanted to. Why even lie? It's pretty damn
infuriating. Sk, HK, and Taiwan all have it under control because people there
have been a lot more careful. They don't leave the house without a mask.
Meanwhile in NYC, people were all casual about it up until maybe last week.
Partly because of the delay in government response.

------
dumbfounder
Great website, I just have one suggestion. Before the message to wear a mask
have in big red letters: "DO NOT GO OUT IN PUBLIC UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY
NECESSARY! No mask is more effective than simply not being around other
people. BUT, if you absolutely must go out..."

~~~
Symmetry
To echo this, wearing a surgical mask consistently will maybe decrease your
odds of getting Covid-19 by a factor of 3. That isn't the same as being immune
so don't take unnecessary risks.

~~~
ThrowAway83774
No, it's a reduction by a factor of 1000 or more. Doctors use them around
infected patients and doctors aren't dropping dead like flies.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
With Covid-19 they are. One in Italy; 9 in the Phillippines; two in America;
several in China. This is not normal.

~~~
ThrowAway83774
Those cases cannot be conclusively linked to a failure of the masks to filter.
Ergo, I'm not wrong yet.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
That's not science; that's arguing to a point.

Presumably, these doctors didn't die during last year's flu epidemic. Nor
during the previous years or decades of their practice. So something is
different this year. Something they normally do to protect themselves, that
isn't working this year.

Hm, they use hand washing, gowns, gloves, masks. Which one, do you think?

------
phtrivier
Please find a word that means "an ordinary piece of fabric that you can build
yourself and wear if you're not sick".

At least in France, "Wear a mask" would be understood as "wear an FFP2,
surgical-level" mask. The kind of masks:

* that we are in very short supply of at the moment (for various and sad reasons)

* that we have to save for doctors

* that everybody would try to buy on black markets if you asked them to use

* that we unfortunately told people _not_ to try and buy (precisely because we need to save them for doctors because they are in short supply, etc...)

So if a campaign started today saying "wear a mask", with the intention of
saying "cover your mouth with a piece of fabric that you made yourself if
you're not sick", I suspect it would be counter-productive.

We need another word.

~~~
edanm
Very interesting linguistically.

My Argentinian wife tells me it's similar in Spanish - a mask would mean an
N95 mask or similar. And a surgical mask would _not_ be included if I
understand correctly (they are not as good as N95 masks, they're mostly just a
piece of fabric).

------
Wowfunhappy
Just, please please please make sure they're home-made masks. If you have any
professionally-created surgical masks, you should donate them to healthcare
workers, who need them much more than you.

I live in Manhattan, and I still see people walking around outside with "real"
masks.

~~~
lostphilosopher
Good point. Also, from the site:

> "Note: Please do not buy surgical or N95 masks because we need to keep those
> available for the doctors, nurses and first responders so they can stay
> healthy and care for the ill."

~~~
uxp100
Kinda dumb point, since a healthcare worker is the one who gave me my single
surgical mask in the first place. They don't want you to "donate" back a
single used mask that your doctor gave you in the first place.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
They also don't want you to keep using a single mask for weeks on end, which
is likely worse than not wearing anything since they're a breeding ground for
bacteria. They aren't designed to washed, they're supposed to be disposable.

~~~
remmargorp64
You can actually sanitize and re-use masks by baking them at relatively low
temperatures.

"If your mask is not made of flammable material, Lin said, you can try putting
it in an oven for 30 minutes at 158 degrees Fahrenheit, because the
coronavirus is fragile. Doing so can kill off the virus, and “it doesn’t
destroy the mask very much,” she said, adding that hanging the mask above a
pot of boiling water for about 10 minutes could also help with killing off the
virus, but it would need to be air-dried afterward."

[https://www.huffpost.com/entry/reuse-face-mask-
coronavirus_l...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/reuse-face-mask-
coronavirus_l_5e78dbf9c5b63c3b6494ad80)

------
kareemm
I feel like there's a good business here. Like T-shirts, I can see masks
becoming another form of self-expression e.g. branded masks, funny slogans,
etc.

~~~
fieryscribe
This has already happened in HK, as Hong Kongers use masks to protect their
identity and to express themselves during the protests

------
kalium-xyz
Interesting how the public opinion on this turned around as the virus spread.
I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during
flu season like people do in Asia.

~~~
Reebz
While I agree, it wasn’t just general public opinion. In NYC at least, it was
widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were
unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad because people were
1) removing surgical/n95 masks from supply, 2) wearing a cloth mask improperly
sanitized can make you sick with other things. I like how Jeremy’s site has
directly addressed those original concerns.

~~~
chasd00
does it have to be n95 to prevent spread? my understanding was the n95 rating
protects you from infected people where a plain old surgical mask protects
others from you. In other words, the n95 mask has what it needs to prevent you
inhaling the virus where a regular mask has what it needs to prevent a sneeze
or cough from escaping to the people around you.

~~~
lonelappde
Can you explain how that could possibly be true?

A surgical mask is just a simpler cheaper, less complete and less effective
mask than an N95 mask, used in lower risk situations or when N95 is desired
but not available.

[https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInf...](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf)

------
kriro
My mother just finished sowing 100 washable ones so they can use them in the
elderly care home she works in (she used the guide provided by the city of
Essen, Germany). They still have some left but estimated they'll run out soon
and asked for volunteers to sow them in their free time. She and a coworker
combined to make about 200 in a couple of days which should be enough to cover
all shifts.

While I was thinking about my homemade one I thought that steam ironing is
probably a good and quick way to disinfect (for those that have an iron).

------
lvturner
One thing often missed with the mask story is that they (generally) stop you
touching your mouth and face as frequently. Assuming touching your mouth with
a 'dirty' hand is a major infection vector, then a home made mask would indeed
be of some use.

Hong Kong scientists also developed and tested a few home made designs, make
of them what you will.

[https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-
environment/artic...](https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-
environment/article/3050689/how-make-your-own-mask-hong-kong-scientists)

------
nyxtom
US Surgeon General continues to recommend against this for some reason

~~~
stronglikedan
> for some reason

They recommend against wearing medical to help cull the shortage, and they
recommend against wearing non-medical because they can provide a false sense
of security, especially when worn incorrectly. Both very good reasons, IMO.

I just assume that _anyone_ wearing a mask is doing so because they're
infected, as per the recommendations, and I'm giving them a wide berth.

~~~
dumbfounder
Yes, but the messaging is not consistent which leads to public distrust, which
might actually be worse. Don't wear masks, they don't help! But we need them
because they do actually help! It's obviously not that simple but that's the
way it's being perceived.

~~~
stronglikedan
> which leads to public distrust

Maybe a minority, as there will always be, but I think most people are aware
of the difference between medical and non-medical masks, and feel the
messaging is consistent.

~~~
anon102010
Definitely not - instead of emphasizing production the US has had this
horrible no mask message - likely resulting in deaths

------
nitrogen
Has the mask supply situation improved? I still see empty shelves for things
like gloves, sanitizers, etc.

~~~
btbuildem
No. This calls on everyone to make their own. Lots of video tutorials, and
some examples are dead simple (two rubber bands and a paper towel, if you have
to).

~~~
dragontamer
> (two rubber bands and a paper towel, if you have to).

Two paper towels and a tissue paper actually.

The different materials lead to better filtration and absorption. The theory
is to absorb the microscopic moisture that has COVID19 on it.

\--------

I think the "cut t-shirt" design is easiest. With a bit of sewing effort, you
can make it 3-ply or 5-ply for additional protection. Try to get the grains to
go in different directions.

------
gjlawran
This guy does an amazing piece on masks, gloves and sanitation. Also explains
how to remove masks properly.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR0&t=1217s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR0&t=1217s)

------
peterwwillis
If you're not infected, a mask doesn't cover your _eyes_ , so you can still
get the virus in the same way you would by breathing near an infected person.
And you're probably going to think you're safe, and then touch an infected
surface, and then touch your face/eyes. Congrats, your dinky non-N95 mask was
pointless.

If you _are_ infected, just use any mask. Your breath still escapes from an
N95 mask's corners, spreading the virus nearby, and probably onto your hands.
Sure, it won't projectile-travel as far, but it's still spilling out onto
nearby surfaces/people.

In Asia, face masks have been trendy ever since the avian flu. But tons of
studies showed that this had no significant effect on reducing people getting
sick, because _eyes_ , and _touching face_. The masks are just a psychological
thing at this point.

~~~
amanaplanacanal
So how do you know if you are infected?

------
kalium-xyz
Ever since I saw a some officials wearing safety glasses I've been wondering:
is eye protection effective against coronavirus (or were these people paranoid
about getting sneezed in the eyes)?

~~~
pmoriarty
From a recent episode of _This Week in Virology_ [1]:

 _" Historically, in a lot of health care settings there was limited attention
[to eye protection], and part of droplet protection, part of being protected
when someone coughs or sneezes is protecting your eyes as well. Actually,
going in to this I was pretty heavy on re-education at one of the hospitals
about: if someone's on droplet, you gotta protect your eyes. Because
influenza, you get that in your eyes you can get infected. SARS-CoV-2, you get
that in your eyes you can end up with COVID-19. So eye protection is important
as well."_

[1] -
[http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-593/](http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-593/)
at about 1 hour and 58 minutes in to the program

------
threatofrain
Apple should make FaceID better at identifying faces through masks so people
aren’t tempted to remove their mask to use contactless payment.

~~~
scarlac
Considering humans often use masks like these to conceal their identity, it's
probably going to be difficult if not impossible to make it work reliably. For
those using an Apple Watch it will be easier to pay that way.

------
seltzered_
Note: hn has been flagging mask discussions

See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22733249](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22733249)

And
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22706216](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22706216)

I'm not too frustrated about this because there's a lot of confusion on mask
usage, people buying masks that doctors need, etc.

------
billfruit
WHO still recommend not wearing mask, unless you are infected or caring for an
infected person.

~~~
yorwba
They do not recommend wearing a mask, which is different from recommending not
to wear a mask.

Edit: Here's the WHO's stance on wearing masks:
[https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2...](https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-
coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks)

~~~
scarlac
This is an unfortunate side effect of how it's worded in many English
articles. And like a game of telephone, the precision is lost in communication
in social settings/media and people are telling each other to not wear masks
(at least that's what I'm seeing)

------
brenden2
Is there any real evidence that masks provide any value for healthy people
(excluding health care workers)? All I've seen are anecdotes from internet
armchair experts.

~~~
gautamnarula
The parent link has a link to a list of papers[1] that answer this question in
the affirmative:

For example, "Professional and Home-Made Face Masks Reduce Exposure to
Respiratory Infections among the General Population" [2]

It's also worth noting that many people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic, so
wearing a mask, even a homemade one, could reduce the spread to other healthy
people.

[1]
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4p...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/preview#)

[2]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/)

