

Ask HN: Palantir or Facebook? - Soupy

Hey everyone,<p>I know this may come off as kind of an odd question but I am truly very confused and stressed and would love to hear your opinions. I am deciding between an internship with Palantir or Facebook and cannot bring myself to decide. I was hoping to get some insight from those of you who are more hooked into the startup scene in the Valley to shed some light and your opinions on these two companies. I am an upperclassman CS major so really what I am looking for in the internship is a chance to learn new technologies and skills and to network with people in the startup industry.<p>Right now I feel like I am more passionate about the work that Facebook is doing but I feel that I would learn more and gain a bigger network at Palantir, given that is has only 300 employees vs. Facebook's 2000. My dream is to one day create my own startup (possibly right out of college), so I feel like this is an important aspect to consider.<p>Should I even be worrying about these factors at this stage? Am I just overthinking this decision? I really appreciate any insight that you guys can give me on this.
======
regs
Dear Soupy,

You've certainly got quite a quandary on your hands. Having an offer from
either place is a great opportunity, but I'd be happy to highlight some of the
more unique aspects of a Palantir internship:

We do most of our product management as a distributed task across all of
engineering. Rather than the traditional "product management tells engineering
to implement this specification", we hand out problems to our engineers to
solve. This means designing solutions to real world problems, writing
specifications, and then implementing those solutions while giving guidance to
QA on testing and to docs on training & documentation. This experience is what
you will learn on your internship at Palantir - our interns sit on the
engineering team as full engineers for the summer, working on the same pool of
problems as the full-time engineers.

At the end of the summer, you will have learned to invent new technology,
manage the product cycle, and translate requirements between cooperating teams
- all useful experience for someone who wants to run their own company some
day.

Some interns, however, have a very unique experience. Consider Michael Kross -
he came to Palantir as a front-end engineering intern in the summer of '09.
During the summer, he worked (alone, but with the original prototyper as a
mentor) on building a fully-functional flows visualization to be used inside
the Palantir Government platform. His work shipped as part of a regular
release soon after he left for the summer.

But in June of '10, six months in to his tenure as a full-time dev and about a
year to the day after his internship had originally started (he was a December
grad), he had an interesting surprise: work that we had pioneered (including
the flows tool) for recovery.gov in fighting fraud in the stimulus money was
being applied to Medicare fraud. Vice-President Biden held a press conference
where the flows tool was being used as the backdrop where it was announced
that Palantir would be used to help reduce a $65 billion / year problem - not
bad for a summer internship!

Finally, to address your thoughts on networking: you will have a great deal of
visibility at Palantir, both in meeting people on other teams, working closely
with the people on your team, and in being noticed. You'll have full access to
the team of people that built the Palantir teams and products up from an idea
to a shipping product and to the people that built the infrastructure to grow
the company from idea to institution.

At the end of the day - you can’t go wrong quite honestly. We think Facebook
has a great product, a great engineering team and respect their work
tremendously. The key decider for me personally would be the type of problem
you want to work on, how you perceive the impact of the work you’d be doing at
each company and the size of the company you’d be joining and hopefully
becoming a part of after you graduate. You’ll have a great time, learn a lot
and be challenged in either environment.

Best of luck with your quandary,

Ari Gesher Senior Software Engineer - Palantir Government

~~~
mkross
Minor nitpick: I graduated in Dec '09 and came back to Palantir in Jan '10.
After working on interesting problems and writing stuff that people not only
use, but are willing to pay for, I was hooked. School, by comparison, was a
lot less interesting and probably less useful.

~~~
regs
Fixed!

------
nostrademons
Do you want to do a consumer startup or an enterprise startup? That's the
obvious dividing line between them. FaceBook will prepare you to do a consumer
web startup, because that's what they are, 6 years down the line. Palantir
will prepare you to do an enterprise startup, because that's what they are, 6
years down the line.

Ignore everyone who says that FaceBook will look better on a resume: that's
only true if you work outside of the valley, and you don't want to start a
tech startup outside of the valley. Among people who matter (investors and key
early engineers), Palantir's reputation is at least as good as FaceBook's.

Smaller company doesn't necessarily mean you'd learn more. Interns learn a
shit ton at Google, with its 25,000 employees, and I think you'd learn a lot
at both FaceBook and Palantir. The important variable here is how flat and
open the internal culture of the company is. There are startups where you have
10 people but the CEO never tells you a damn thing, and then there's Google
where you have 25k people but full-timers can access just about everything
(and even interns have pretty broad access and get exposed to a wide variety
of technologies).

Really, I think the biggest decision is consumer vs. enterprise, and I don't
think you're equipped to make that until you've worked for both (that's what
internships are for :-)). Personally, my first job out of college was a
startup that sold enterprise software very similar to Palantir's to hedge
funds. I hated it - I wanted nothing to do with the financial industry, I
found the enterprise sales cycle to be capricious and demoralizing, and I
didn't like the feeling that we were beholden to a few very powerful and
questionably moral customers. I wanted to do consumer stuff, and I'm much,
much happier now that I'm at a consumer company. But I have friends that have
gone the other way: they felt that consumer stuff was frivolous and mundane,
and liked the algorithmic challenges of building industrial-strength software
for very wealthy enterprises.

------
kes
I'm going to disagree with the people on this thread and vote for Plantir.

It is cool to say that Facebook is doing 'world-changing' and 'revolutionary'
things -- while I believe such is true on some levels and that we can't ignore
what it is -- but a company like Plantir has a much better opportunity to do
things that are simply mind-boggling.

Finance and the Government are not popular things, especially amongst the
hacker crowds, but the US Government is capable of doing incredible things.
The power wielded by the State is huge, and _directly_ affects hundreds of
millions of people a day. Facebook may have become a staple in some peoples
lives but they [as a company] are not responsible for keeping citizens safe,
regulating commerce, building infrastructure, waging war or brokering peace.

Facebook is a company that finds better ways to _serve up advertising_. That's
not all they do, but that's how they make money.

Plantir is in a unique position to change an increasingly
inefficient/ineffective system. US politics suck right now. We can all agree
on that. But a company like Plantir operates on a different level than the
fork-tongued politicians.

You say: _network with people in the startup industry_ and _create my own
startup_ which tells me (and I might be wrong, please correct if so) that you
enjoy the idea of disrupting the status quo. What better place to do this than
Big Government and Big Business/Finance? This might seem backwards but as
these institutions crumble at their seams there is no better place to be.

~~~
catch23
I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement.

If you want to get into startups with enterprise customers, then maybe
palantir is the right choice, but otherwise you'd learn a lot more about
customer acquisition at facebook since there are probably a few hundred
startups that all use facebook for customer acquisition.

I also don't see how palantir makes the US government more efficient --
they're mostly a big data mining company. They make fancy predictions which
help locate terrorists, allocate finances, and other cool things, but the only
thing that will make politics efficient are effective politicians. Data mining
won't mash out all the filibusters that happen at the house.

I would say if you want to learn about data mining and machine learning
techniques, palantir is the right choice.

If you want to do a startup later, facebook is the right choice. Facebook
tends to buy out many small startups, so there will be many at that company
who have the same mindset as you do. This is important should you decide to
look for cofounders who have the same startup passions. I can't really think
of any startups acquired by palantir.

I'll also mention that it's easier to placate investors if you tell them your
startup team consists of ex-facebook or ex-google employees. A startup with
ex-palantir employees just doesn't have the same homerun ring to it, and when
investors are making that gut judgement call after looking at 2 slides from
your 5 minute pitch, they're going to go with the team with ex-facebook
employees.

~~~
eugeneiiim
To clarify, Palantir isn't a data-mining company. Palantir makes tools that
streamline the process of analyzing large datasets for professional, often
non-technical analysts in government and finance institutions.

Working with founders from acquired companies is not a great way to meet co-
founders. First, many will have already "made it" and won't have the same
drive that they once had. Second, if they do, they'll prefer to work (and
socialize with) with other people who are like them -- other successful
founders. Maybe they'll let you be an employee at their new startup.

Palantir is full of people who are itching to start a company, and we'll see
dozens of startups by Palantir alums after Palantir exits (it's already
happening; see posterous.com). The founders of these companies will have
unique experience and connections in government and finance, giving them the
option to target enterprise problems instead of entering the over-crowded
consumer startup scene.

As far as reputation among Silicon Valley investors, having worked at Palantir
will look at least as good as having worked at Facebook or Google over the
next few years, especially now that Facebook and Google are already big and
successful. Joining Facebook or Google today is relatively lazy; it's not as
impressive to join a company that's already hugely successful as it is to join
a company and contribute to making it successful. Assuming a choice between
Palantir and Facebook, an entrepreneurial person with confidence in his/her
ability to make a company successful will join Palantir.

~~~
catch23
Palantir is a data-mining company. They make tools to analyze datasets, but in
reality, you need to understand data in order to present it well. The skills
involved here are all specialized to data-mining. Since you work there, I'm
sure there's obviously going to be some bias in your arguments :-). At least
I'm seeing both companies from an objective viewpoint here.

Working with founders from acquired companies is actually a great way to meet
co-founders. Most founders post-acquisition usually start new companies after
their vest-in-rest.

Doing an enterprise startup relies heavily on sales. Having worked at an
enterprise startup does not necessarily give you the skills needed for your
next enterprise startup unless you're the guy doing sales.

As far as reputation goes, the reason facebook & google are stronger with
investors have little to do with the mindset of employees at google, and more
to do with the types of people google/facebook might hire.

You might be the smartest guy at USC, but investors would still choose the
harvard grad over you. We all wish that logic & intelligence would triumph
over the good ol' boys network from ivy league schools, but investors rarely
go with logic. The only way you would seem more favorable than a team with all
ivy league alums is if your project has good traction, or if you have a past
track record. Palantir may have smarter people than Facebook, but investors
don't care.

Typically employees from large companies like Google/Facebook typically know
enough alumni there to help their next company be re-acquired by the company
they left.

The original question was which company is better to work for if you want to
work for a startup later and I believe some of your arguments are more general
reasons why you'd want to work for company X over company Y.

------
CoreDumpling
_My dream is to one day create my own startup (possibly right out of college)_

Be careful with who you say this to. Although this probably won't be a problem
with an internship, an employer may be reluctant to consider someone who
demonstrates a lack of commitment.

I was told of a student who said to one of his interviewers at Electronic Arts
that he "wanted to be the next Jenova Chen." (Jenova Chen left EA to found
thatgamecompany.) Needless to say, the interviewer was not amused.

~~~
_delirium
Games is a particularly odd area because the big companies actively _don't_
want designer/entrepreneurial type of people much. Everyone wants to be a game
designer, but realistically, EA needs like a dozen top-level game designers, a
few dozen designers of subsystems of games, and a whole hell of a lot of
programmers, artists, and testers. They want to hire the next "pumps out
thousands of lines of animation code", not the next Will Wright, because there
isn't really any advancement path within the company to move up to be the next
Will Wright, and if you hope there is, you're likely to be disappointed (or
leave). Exceptions for a very few areas, which are usually direct hires by
important people; e.g. Will Wright himself likes to hire a few, often junior,
people to help him design and prototype his games. But a normal EA recruiter
is not hiring for that kind of job.

I get the feeling that the situation isn't _as_ skewed at many other tech
companies; e.g. Google doesn't feel threatened by people with entrepreneurial
/ run-your-own-project kinds of instincts, and tries to channel them where
possible. Also, when my brother got hired at nVidia, the recruiter actively
was trying to sell him on the idea that nVidia was a great first company to
have on his resume. Followed up with the usual we-hope-you'll-stay, etc., but
didn't have any illusions about the fact that the kinds of people they want to
hire often plan to move on or found startups, and that's fine.

------
sp4rki
Jesus you shouldn't even have to ask this question. Facebook all the way. It
not only carries more weight, but you're more likely to work with new cutting
edge tech. Remember Palantir is mainly a Java shop in the finance and gov
sectors, while Facebook is the "next big thing", just like Google was.

~~~
nostrademons
Among highly-skilled engineers in the valley (i.e. the ones who'd be working
at FaceBook/Palantir/Google), Palantir is _at least_ as highly regarded as
FaceBook, and quite possibly moreso. They aren't all that well-known outside
of the valley, because they do enterprise software, but the caliber of their
engineering team is pretty legendary.

~~~
sp4rki
And that is exactly the reason he should go to Facebook instead. I never
questioned Palantir's engineers - I don't get why you make such assumption.
The simple truth is that for a person starting out it looks insanely better to
have Facebook in your CV instead of Palantir (generally speaking off course).
If he was an experienced engineer and was offered a similar jobs on both
companies, then that is a different story altogether. Facebook will have more
impact on whatever this young man does next, anywhere he does it, be it in the
valley, or in a too hot third world country.

Really if you want to get into Palantir's industry, there is, of course, no
better choice. But if you want to get your feet through the door, there's no
better option than Facebook right now, and that has nothing to do with the
quality of either engineering teams.

------
colinsidoti
Between your current two, I would say Facebook because it sounds like you'll
enjoy yourself more there.

That said, you also say: "My dream is to one day create my own startup
(possibly right out of college)"

In that case, I would recommend a funded startup with something on the order
of 5 employees. I've never worked at a larger company so I can't bash them,
but I could say my experience at a small company still in "startup mode"
helped me tremendously with my own startup.

------
jchonphoenix
I'm in a similar situation that you are in. The pros and cons I currently see.

Both:

Have a great company culture. Have awesome smart, employees and have
interesting problems to work on.

Facebook: Is a rather large company now so you won't learn as much. It does
have extremely interesting problems though and does have smart people so you
will learn a lot. However, facebook is most likely overvalued, so if you join
facebook, it is highly unlikely you will get rich off of the stock.

Palantir: Has one of the most excellent engineering teams I have ever met.
They have the best team I have seen in terms of algorithmic problem solving
ability. They have an awesome company culture and great perks. Whereas
facebook is the current hot place to work, I could see Palantir being the next
hot place to work.

The one major downside of Palantir is that they work on enterprise software
and thus, the product isn't as cool to the general consumer. Most of the
people on this thread have no real idea what Palantir does and just assume
that since they work for the government, their work isn't interesting. You'll
have to deal with this because truthfully, their work isn't well understood
and isn't as sexy as facebook.

------
bwh2
I would choose Facebook simply for name recognition. Having Facebook on your
resume would carry more weight with many potential employers and partners.

~~~
eugeneiiim
This is like telling someone 3-4 years ago to work at Google instead of
Facebook. The people who joined Facebook then, before the brand carried any
weight, came out way ahead.

~~~
nostrademons
Well, yeah, but it's also like telling someone 3-4 years ago to work at Google
instead of Digg. The people who worked at Digg, now that the brand doesn't
carry much weight, ain't doing so hot.

The problem with betting on an unknown is that you're betting. The returns can
be high, but so are the risks. If you're comfortable with those risks, it can
be very lucrative. But it can just as easily go south.

------
CPops
Unless there's an overwhelmingly great reason to go with another one, I would
get Facebook on my resume and set myself up to easily get jobs for life.

------
bkrausz
Palantir stock at the point will be worth a _lot_ more given a likely exit
scenario.

Also, they don't ice each other. Gotta be a plus.

------
andrewacove
> My dream is to one day create my own startup (possibly right out of college)

If you're going to start your own right out of college, the most important
thing will be having people to do it with you. You'll get great work
experience at either company. Go to the one where you think you'll be able to
make more, stronger connections with other interns. Leave your internship with
a list of potential cofounders. I'd probably choose Facebook based on the
number of interns, unless you think that culturally you'll bond more with the
people that Palantir attracts.

------
white_knight
They are both really good companies, and I've met really sharp people at both.
Palantir's mission is pretty exciting and their employees are generally quite
passionate about it, while with Facebook you can say "I work at Facebook."
Both companies will treat you very well and I bet you will have a good
experience at both.

While your grandmother may never have heard of Palantir, anyone in Silicon
Valley who isn't living under a rock has. If your goal is to experience a more
startup-like culture, between the two I would go with Palantir given its size
and potential.

------
endtime
>I am more passionate about the work that Facebook is doing

Well, there's your answer. You're not going to be constrained by working at a
company with ~2500 employees.

------
nphase
Very surprised nobody has mentioned this: A Facebook internship, if converted
into a Facebook job, can be extremely valuable if/when they IPO.

Of course, money isn't everything. Palantir has some extremely smart people
(two of my friends work there, and I have a ton of respect for them), and
seems to move at a pretty quick pace. Going there could be very interesting
from both an experience and an ops perspective.

------
eugeneiiim
See the Quora question "Why would an engineer want to work at Palantir instead
of Facebook / Google / Twitter?": [http://www.quora.com/Why-would-an-engineer-
want-to-work-at-P...](http://www.quora.com/Why-would-an-engineer-want-to-work-
at-Palantir-instead-of-Facebook-Google-Twitter?q=why+would+palantir+instead)

------
bool
PalantirTech.com or Palantir.net? Two very different companies...

In 5 years, would you prefer to say:

I worked at Facebook for 5 years. or I worked at Palantir for 5 years.

Plantir doesn't have the same brand recognition as Facebook. I personally
think Facebook will look better on a resume.

------
dzlobin
I vote palantir; I have a friend who works on the finance engineering team and
he loves it. If you want me to put you in touch, let me know.

------
Sean97
Go facebook it has so many people using it

