
Soviet College Admission — My Dad's Story (1970) - pkrein
http://ivolo.me/soviet-college-admission/
======
PRJIUS2
Posted last time[1] one of these stories came around, comment applicable here:

As a preamble there most definitely existed anti-semitism in Soviet Union. I
am a Russian living in the US with Jewish family in Russia. This is a throw
away account.

With that said, stories of anti-semitism told by Russian Jews in US should not
be taken at face value. These folks are subject to a very strong selection
bias. Most of them came to the US as refugees who were recognized by the US
State Department as being discriminated against for being Jewish in
USSR/Russia. Secondly they have interest in maintaining the story anti-
seminitism because it validates their narrative and could potentially help
their relatives immigrate to the US.

Additionally many stories of anti-semitism that I heard were something a non-
jew would experience as well but attributed to anti-semitism. As a personal
example, I was at first denied admission to a specialized school in very late
Soviet period. They eventually let me in because my mother found out that I
had the highest score on the entrance exam of any one. Their excuse was that
they had to let the kids who were in the paid summer program at the school
first and now the class was full. A Jewish kid's parents would have been told
they already have too many Jews in the advanced program. Both cases are just
the admissions persons asking for a bribe.

[1] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047>

~~~
fusiongyro
So, how big a problem is antisemitism in Russia, in your opinion?

~~~
geoka9
It's huge. It permeates all levels of the society. There are jokes,
stereotypes and anecdotes that are essentially part of the culture. Most (if
not all) of the people have at some point been subjected to them, and even if
they are not antisemitic, they are certainly aware of the singling out of
Jews.

This dates back to the days of the USSR, but the prejudice is not limited to
Jews anymore. Chechens, Georgians, Tajiks, Ukrainians, etc. (even ethnicities
indigenious to parts of Russia) -- all of them can be routinely discriminated
against based on looks and/or name.

What has changed, though, is that the bulk of discrimination has shifted from
the state to the people. E.g. folks are not discriminated against when trying
to get into a college, but can be singled out on the street.

~~~
free652
Russians simply do not trust anyone and discriminate other ethnic Russians
over anything.

Better dressed - hate you Better car - hate you Not from Moscow, you're a
village idiot.

~~~
sentadrawing
Note that with dissolution of the Soviet Union at least some republics - parts
of Russia (e.g., Tatarstan, Bashkortostan) started to see discrimination
against ethnical Russians. This increased movement of Russians closer to
Moscow - or, say, to south-western parts of Russia, like Krasnodar region,
with Russian majority.

------
moxie
What's interesting is that according to several narratives from those close to
the central committee under Stalin, anti-semitic policies in the Soviet Union
started from geo-political maneuvering rather than any inherent personal sense
of racism.

Sudoplatov, an NKVD agent who worked for Beria, wrote in his memoirs that the
original Soviet post-war plans were actually to _establish a Jewish republic
in the Crimea_ , with the hope that they would be able to use it in order to
get money for Soviet post-war reconstruction from Jewish organizations around
the world.

When they failed to gain world traction with the idea, and were cut off from
British/American planning of the alternative (Palestine), Stalin moved to a
policy of anti-Semitism (the "Doctor's Plot" and a campaign against "Rootless
Cosmopolitanism") so that the _Arab_ world would turn to him instead (in their
dissatisfaction with the plans for Israel).

One passage from Sudoplatov's memoirs:

"Stalin and his close aides were interested in the Jewish issue mainly to
exploit it politically, either for use in a power struggle or for
consolidating their power. That's how the flirtation with anti-Semitism
started in high party echelons...Stalin's efforts after the war were focused
on extending Soviet hegemony, first over the countries of Eastern Europe
bordering the Soviet Union and then everywhere he was in competition with
British interests. He foresaw that the Arab states would turn to the Soviet
Union when they were frustrated by British and American support for Israel.
The Arabs would appreciate the anti-Zionist trends in Soviet foreign
policy...I was told by Vetrov, Molotov's Assistant, what Stalin said: 'Let's
agree to the establishment of Israel. This will be a pain in the ass for the
Arab states and will make them turn their backs on the British. In the long
run it will totally undermine British influence in Egypt, Syria, Turkey, and
Iraq.'"

~~~
CleanedStar
The Crimea was one idea, so was a semi-autonomous state out near Birobidzhan.

The problem with saying that it was paranoia that some people in the Jewish
community were trying to undermine the Russian government, is that, especially
after the fall of the USSR, right wing Jews have openly boasted about how they
HAD been working to undermine the Russian government, and were using the
Jewish community in the USSR to do so. The documentary record of this is
extensive in not only Hebrew but English. On the one hand, they brag about how
they subverted and undermined the government - then on the other hand, they
talk about how crazy and paranoid the USSR was for thinking there were plots
against them from the Jewish community.

Many Jewish people bragging about how they helped bring down the USSR kind of
undermines these arguments about how the idea that some members of the Jewish
community were working to subvert the government is crazy. Because nowadays,
they openly admit it.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
Links please? I'm Jewish and have never heard of this. At all.

~~~
jamra
There will be no links because you are talking with someone who has a
disproportionate distaste for Jews. Look at the comment history.

I am pretty amazed that when people make ridiculous comments about history,
sources are not required. Jews did not go through Russian pilot training only
to get paid more money in the Israeli air force (comment history) nor did Jews
have an organized resistance to the oppression they experience in Soviet
Russia.

~~~
CleanedStar
My comment was in response to this idea that Russians were crazy to think
there were underground spy networks of right wing Jews in Russia. But right
wing Jews openly boast of doing this. I generally come to this web site to
read about B-tree algorithms and VC funding and have no desire spending too
much time debating the USSR circa 1970. But anyone who is interested can
Google "chabad underground" or "chabad underground russia" or "chaba
underground ussr" for starters. As I said, these are not third parties, but
actual Jewish participants bragging about these underground spy networks in
the USSR in English - in documents and on Youtube. If you know Hebrew you can
read and hear even more. I don't have too much interest in spycraft, but their
open bragging after the collapse of the USSR belies the notion of the top
poster that these spy networks did not exist.

As far as my comment history, anyone reading it can see this poster is full of
nonsense as I never discuss the Russian air force in any respect. As far as
"distaste for Jews", the reader can play a mental game if they wish - again
one can read my comment history and conjure up a mental image of a theoretical
Jewish person in the US. They are assimilated, secular, educated,
intellectual, deracinated, grandparents were labor organizers, older cousin
has stories about the Hashomer Hatzair kibbutz they once lived at. Then
conjure up a mental image of an orthodox/ultra-orthodox, religious, insular,
Zionist, anti-communist Jew. THEN conjure up an image of a fundamentalist,
evangelical, religious, insular, and Zionist, anti-communist Christian goy. I
have met people in my life who could be categorized in any of these three
categories. I would say I enjoyed being with one of those types of people, and
had a distaste for the other two. The above post says I have a "distaste for
Jews". I leave it as an exercise to the reader which one of these types I
enjoy spending time with, and which two I have a distaste for.

~~~
jamra
I do not mean to imply that you came to this site to spew racist hatred. I
have lurked quite some time and have read your previous comments, which offer
an alternative view of history. I only wish to see proof (provided by you) of
this alternative history. If you can provide me with actual evidence, I will
gladly take some of my time to analyze it and even ask someone I know who
speaks hebrew to translate.

One thing I want to bring to your attention, which specifically bothered me,
is that an oppressed minority living in an oppressive land who has members
that try to resist is not proof in itself of a hypocrisy of the entire
minority, nor is it some kind of evidence that the oppression was just.

My European family was murdered in Poland. I was raised in an area surrounded
by racists and bigots. I was beaten up as a child for no other reason than my
race (at the age of 5). My neighbor and friend growing up (of German decent)
would tell me how Jews were intrinsically thieves, though I was different, and
how Hitler was a genius.

I do have personal reasons to be critical of your words. Your reasoning,
however, is not valid. Right wing Jews can openly talk about anything they
like. People tend to bend history when they get the short end of the stick. It
is a coping mechanism. Please don't judge an entire people based on flimsy
evidence. I like B trees too.

------
dangoldin
Thanks for posting. I just sent this to my parents who were also in the Soviet
Union until we all emigrated to the US.

Here's the response from my mom:

Yes, it's typical. The only thing which surprises me that the dad's dad
insisted on military in 1970 - there was an antisemitic campaign in military
in 1961 and grandfather could not miss it. Usually families knew which
colleges accept Jewish kids, which did not and usually there was a "plan B".
There was a category of "top" colleges which ran exams in July, while all
others ran exams in August, like this guy who failed in top choice in July
still had option to take exams in August (like my mom who failed with
Institute of mechanics and Optics in July applied for Pedagogical Institute in
August, or Alik [her uncle] who was not admitted in Moscow university applied
in Kharkov in August etc.) And some people who were fighting actually
succeeded (like Alena [her aunt] whom they gave either 4 or 3 in math said she
knows well enough to get 5, so the examiner said, "I will have to call a head
of the commission", Alena said, "So call him." And started all over again.
Vitya, my cousin, had the same experience: they told him his solution is
wrong, he gave them another one, and one more, and they also called for the
head of admissions, and she showed him the right solution - then he showed her
his first solution, etc. So it's a little weird that for this family this all
sounded as a surprise. It was every family experience ;-( and one of the
reasons of emigration (same situation with jobs.)

~~~
cema
I mostly concur, except that I am not surprised it could be a surprise for
many whose minds were filled with an ideological view of the society they
lived in. I remember how difficult it was for me to get used to the idea that
I do not live in the best country, the beacon of hope for the world. And I was
far from alone.

My close friend's mother could not believe it until her son, a straight-A
student from K to 12, was given a failing grade at an entrance exam in physics
which he knew and understood very well. Oh, it's funny to remember now, by the
way. They would give him a problem, then come back before he would finish the
solution, say "you did not solve it" and mark it with a minus. Several times
he was faster than them. Still, after a while they got a sufficient number of
minuses and said good-bye to him. He expected it would be a losing battle, but
still was a little shocked at their arrogance.

~~~
dangoldin
Interesting. I was pretty young so I can't really chime in but I know my
parents were in Leningrad (now St Petersburg) so urban areas may have had more
awareness? They were also part of some underground Jewish study groups which
would have given them a different perspective.

~~~
XEKEP
I guess you're right. The Leningrad, Moscow and Kiev were different from most
of the USSR in many aspects, including official anti-semitism in universities.
And Tashkent was yet another universe altogether.

------
tokenadult
Some basic facts about college admission in the United States:

1) Most colleges admit large numbers of students who are officially reported
as "race/ethnicity unknown."

2) The definition of "race" categories in current United States regulations is
arbitrary, acknowledged by the Census Bureau to be unscientific, does not
match categories used in any other country, and has changed several times in
my lifetime.

3) "Jewish" has never been an officially regarded category in the United
States for tracking data on the issue of college admission, but Jews once
faced considerable barriers getting into many colleges.

4) The subset of United States high school students who are college-ready by
what courses they have completed during high school has a much different
"race" composition from the general United States population.

Several of the replies in this interesting thread ask questions about the
system in the United States, so I will refer here to the definitive FAQ about
"race" in United States college admission,

[http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-
admissions/13664...](http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-
admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a.html)

so that those of you who like to look up reliable sources and check facts are
able to do that about this contentious issue. The FAQ will have to be revised,
of course, after the Supreme Court issues its opinion in a pending case (cited
in the FAQ). Full references to the facts listed above can be found in the
FAQ.

The collection of "Jewish Problems" (very tough mathematics problems reputedly
given to Jewish applicants to Soviet universities) by Tanya Khovanova and
Alexey Radul on arXiv

<http://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1556>

is directly on-topic for the main submission here. How many of those problems
could you solve to get into university?

~~~
pm90
Ah, Russian problem sets! Brings back fond memories of high school spent
desperately trying to crack these tough problems. Although surely not as
challenging as the ones listed in the link, these were some of the toughest,
yet the shortest problems, and solving every one of them was a challenge
which, when completed, let to an inner sense of satisfaction so great, it was
intoxicating...and addictive.

In India, Russian authors (e.g Irodov, Kratov, Invanov) have a reputation of
being incredibly difficult, yet having very elegant problems; while American
authors had the reputation of writing long winded 'real-world' problems that
took effort to first understand the context of, were illustrated by colorful
figures etc (of course there are exceptions).

------
davidroberts
I think the US unofficial quotas against Asians are somewhat similar to the
Soviet ones against Jews, though not so spitefully motivated. Essentially, it
boils down to "We don't want our own kids to have to compete on even terms
with these hard-working, incredibly studious outsiders."

~~~
liber8
Can you explain about these "unofficial quotas against Asians"? I'm genuinely
curious if this actually exists. Note that less than _5% of Americans_ are
Asian, but:

40% of UC students are asian (and it's higher at Cal, UCLA and UCSD (i.e. the
better schools)).[1]

23% of Stanford students are asian (probably higher since that excludes
"international" and "decline to state").[2]

26% of MIT students are.[3]

In other words, at (a small sampling of) the top schools, Asians are over-
represented by anywhere from 400% to 1000%. It just doesn't seem like any sort
of quota system exists, looking at the data.

[1][http://diversity.universityofcalifornia.edu/documents/divers...](http://diversity.universityofcalifornia.edu/documents/diversity-
accountability-report-and-appendix-0910.pdf)

[2][http://www.stanford.edu/dept/humsci/external/under/demograph...](http://www.stanford.edu/dept/humsci/external/under/demographics.html)

[3]<http://tech.mit.edu/V127/N31/admissions.html>

~~~
gimeq
Under ethnicity-agnostic admissions standards, those percentages may be even
higher.

Note that Stanford's and MIT's percentatges are notable lower than UC's. Why?

~~~
yakiv
This is just speculation.

California has this:

    
    
        > California’s Master Plan for higher education, adopted in
        > 1960, guarantees a place in college for every state
        > resident who can benefit. The historic blueprint produced
        > systems and programs that have served as models for other
        > states and for countries across the globe.
    

Stanford is a private university, and MIT isn't in California. The UCs sound
like they're public universities. Perhaps the Asian students in California who
are blocked out of other universities end up going to UCs instead.

This one might be incorrect, but California being on the west coast might mean
that there are more Asians per person in California than in many other parts
of the US, too.

------
patrickgzill
"It was understood that since Jews represented a minority percentage of the
overall population, the university would only accept that percentage into the
student body. This was in line with the Soviet Union’s unofficial policy of
anti-semitism in the post-Stalin era."

So, quotas... are there quotas, official or unofficial, in the USA university
system?

~~~
benesch
US laws essentially encourage unwritten quotas. While actual numbers are
prohibited [0], race is explicitly listed as a legal factor to consider in
admission. (Supreme court decision; can't remember the citation.)

So you can't say "we're letting in 300 of RACE this year." But, when you have
301 of RACE, you can say, "I feel like the number of RACE we've admitted this
year negatively impacts the diversity of our student body."

[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action#cite_ref-6>

~~~
redwood
It is different, however, to say "we want more of minority X at the expense of
the majoity" than to say 'the maximum number of minority X is Y"

------
gambiting
I come from a former Soviet Republic and from everything my dad tells me an
image emerges - an image of a land where you could do everything,but you
always had to bribe the right people, otherwise they wouldn't do anything. Or
they would,but it would take them half a year to process the application.

My uncle actually studied at the University of Warsaw and was the best student
in his year, while doing engineering. He wanted to go on a foreign placement
in the UK, which was a very rare opportunity to see some world. So he
applied,studied hard, and fulfilled all the requirements. Only to be told a
week before going that sorry but he can't go, because the son of the State
Secretary is going instead. He had to complain to some very high-positioned
officials to be allowed to go next year, but not without being threatened to
be kicked out of academia for life first.

Funny thing is, that I am currently studying at the same university in the UK
my uncle did his placement 40 years ago. Feeling quite proud of that.

------
coolsunglasses
Forgive me: This is both a comment on the content and in the process I
mentioned something I made recently. I don't want any more users right now.

I have a bucket for links called "Mythbusting" on this service I made named
Scrooty.

I called the bucket "Mythbusting" not as a reference to the TV show but rather
for a particular category of content.

I often run into misconceptions and tropes that bother me. One of those among
people I encounter often is that the Soviet Union was so great compared to the
US then or now. Another is things like, say, the excessive praise of Japanese
longevity/health.

This is a link I'm saving for the next time somebody tries to tell me how
devoid of racism the Soviet Union was.

Another recent link for this bucket was the (recent, but it's been ongoing)
outrage among Chinese farmers not getting recompense for their land from the
gov't confiscations.

Stories like this are starting to be shared more. Here's hoping it keeps
coming.

~~~
s_baby
>This is a link I'm saving for the next time somebody tries to tell me how
devoid of racism the Soviet Union was.

We have a similar quota system in America that limits asian admissions and
with talks of extending quotas to limit male admissions in STEM degrees.
What's not clear is if these Jewish quotas were proportional to population or
not.

~~~
ivolo
Author here. As far as I understand, the Jewish quotas were not proportional
to the population.

The other significant difference is that all these policies were completely
opaque, not like you can find out how much Jews the university can accept this
year. Officially, no such policy existed, but everyone knew it did.

In my dad's case, he was told he failed the health exam, which was a complete
lie.

There were many other cases in my family where a similar thing happened:

\- Besides having a passing score, my grandmother was not accepted into a tech
university, while her Russian friend with the exact same grade was.

\- Another one of her friends disappeared (taken to a political prison camp),
after she publicly complained that she wasn't accepted into her desired
university because of religion.

\- my mom wanted to be a teacher, but had been told by her neighbor (who
worked as a professor) to not even try applying to the Pedagogical University
of St. Petersburg, as they flat out didn't accept Jews.

\- post graduation, my dad wanted to work at a high-tech Moscow university
lab. Back then, you were assigned to a job after graduation based on your
grades. The Moscow lab was reserved for the top of the class (and my dad was
in the top 5%). However, during the assignment committee, the director
repeated "David Vladimirovich" twice. This was a common Jewish name, and he
made sure that everyone knew it. The committee decided that my dad was to go
work in a lab in Ufa (2000 km away - <http://goo.gl/maps/a342A>). Far places
like that were reserved for lower placing students. When my dad asked why he
didn't place into the Moscow lab, they told him, "we're the ones that ask the
questions here."

~~~
tatumizer
> Author here. As far as I understand, the Jewish quotas were not proportional
> to the population

I was through similar experiences to your dad's roughly at the same time.

Quotas, where they were in place, WERE proportional to the population (2%).
There was a number of very good schools where we Jews were more than welcome
(e.g. MIIT) - your dad was supposed to be aware of this. You have to thank God
that he was not accepted to Military Academy - you probably won't be here if
he was.

I don't blame them for not accepting me to Moscow University. I blame them for
not letting us go, locking us in their country and using as hostages in
"peace" negotiations with US. (Every concession from US was accompanied by
opening the gates for a small number of people).

People of Russia were (and still are, to large extent) victims of
brainwashing. Beware of brainwashing, it's effective regardless of country.

~~~
eli_gottlieb
_People of Russia were (and still are, to large extent) victims of
brainwashing. Beware of brainwashing, it's effective regardless of country._

And Americans aren't?

------
Smirnoff
As a person born in USSR Russia and currently living in Uzbekistan, I can
confirm that college entrance system didn't change much in Uzbekistan: 1\. You
are allowed to apply to 1 state-sponsored university only. If you don't get
in, you're SOL. 2\. You need to pass medical examination before you submit
your documents. This "Medical Form-86" can be bought for $10. 3\. You can buy
your way into a university, just like rich kids do for Ivy Leagues in USA.

The best change since then is the fact that the practice of administering oral
and written exams by each university is GONE :)

IMHO this was THE MAIN way to deny admission during USSR times. This happened
to both of my parents: a. My mom scored perfect on first 2 exams and scored 1
on the final essay. The university in Russia rejected her appeal. Oh, and did
I say she was writing for her high school bulletin and won several state essay
competitions? b. Same story with my Uzbek dad. Scored well on Math and Physics
just to fail the final oral exam. Ended up serving in Army in Saint Petersburg
for a few years.

Now concerning discrimination in USSR colleges: I have relatives who are
Tatars and Uzbeks and I know plenty of Jewish Russians who had no problem
getting into universities during USSR times. I also know a few Russians who
thought they got perfect scores but ended up getting a ding. Based on my
experience, I'd day everyone was against odds due to corruption and lack of
connections.

------
throwmeaway33
I'm always suspicious about these second hand stories; especially when they're
dramatized like this.

For instance he says:

"You could apply to one and only one university. If you didn’t get in, you’d
be conscripted into the army the following Fall."

And then explains how he applied to a second university and then how he was
offered to apply to a local university in Tashkent.

Just to be clear, I don't disagree with his premise, it's just the whole thing
is overly dramatized. My uncle also almost didn't get into MSU because they
decided he was Jewish, and my dad was rejected and had to go to a different
school. The whole thing was really weird because they decide your jewishness
solely based on your last name. (which is sorta black magic)

Also, from everything I heard, antisemetism wasn't institutional - ie.
directed from top down. I've never heard of the quota thing (if it existed, it
was done on a school by school basis). For instance MSU was known for being
very antisemitic, while other branches of government were not. You've got to
remember that a lot of the revolutionaries were jewish, even Lenin was a jew
(sorta).

------
vj44
Great post, and a very sad story (with a happy ending). Unfortunately, US (and
others) universities applied similar policies (probably, more subtly though)
up to 1970:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerus_clausus#Numerus_clausus_in_the_United_States)

~~~
lesterbuck
Harvard and Columbia, among elite US universities, had quotas for Jewish
admissions. The entire idea of saving spaces for legacy admissions is
apparently one of the tactics used to block ethnic groups from admission. Even
Richard Feynman was subject to these quotas, and when he was rejected from
Colombia as over quota, he went to MIT.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota>

------
mvolo
Racism and racially-motivated policies (mostly affirmative action) definitely
exist in the US ... Particularly for older, and less educated populations.

But the bottom line is, even if not everyone likes you in the US, you can
still live a fully actualized life even if it takes a bit of hard work. In
Russia, institutional racism created a hard ceiling that most of the time
could not be broken, even with hard work. If you tried to hard, you would go
to jail or worse.

------
gnosis
A similar story:

[http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/The-Fifth-
problem--...](http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/The-Fifth-problem--math
---anti-Semitism-in-the-Soviet-Union-7446)

which was previously discussed on HN here:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4752047>

------
scrrr
Thank you for posting this. I like such stories, even though I have never been
to the former USSR. I once was working with an (incredibly skilled) C++ guy
who was a former officer/engineer in the Soviet army. He told me similar
stories.

Apparently one day he had to take an examination. What they did was an army
radio transmitter, an AK47 machine gun, and they shoot some holes in it. Then
they handed it to him and said: Fix it.

Another story he told me was about a friend who was in the submarine navy.
Days before his university courses would start they got an order to go on
patrol. And then he was underwater for a year instead.

Also the stories how new soldiers were assigned to bases thousands of miles
away from home, apparently so they don't desert and go home etc.

I find all that very interesting. It's so different from my experience in
(West-) Germany. Everything was easy in comparison here.

------
tebuevd
Discrimination was not limited to Jews. Ethnic Russians were the only ones not
targeted by the State.

------
rewt
Story of your father could not describe the whole system. Anyone could dig the
NET and find a lot of jewish names in top places of soviet society. Not only
jewish but also many many other man who are not ethnic russians.

------
hakaaaaak
Thanks to the OP for posting this. I want to read it to my kids, so they
understand how lucky and spoiled we are.

I think the persecution of the Jews in any culture is wrong.

And so is the persecution of any religion.

I think the freedom of religion, including the right to pray in schools, on
T.V. and radio, in government, etc. is a freedom that the U.S. was not only
founded on, but what people have died for, and I am grateful for that.

I'm glad that things have changed in the former Soviet countries. I wish that
things weren't changing for the worse here.

I have to put up with people telling me about "separation of church and
state", which was never meant to be interpreted as it is today. If you can
have atheism practiced in schools and taught by teachers, I should be able to
have prayer in schools and religion taught by teachers. That is separation of
church and state. No one should tell me what I can or cannot do as long as I'm
not impeding others' freedoms and pursuit of happiness.

And I put up with my government that:

* attempts to restrict our freedoms in the name of protection

* tries to act in our best interest, but never actively asks what our best interests are

But, we are spoiled. I'll take my every phone call and Google search being
scanned by the U.S. over the crap people had to put up with in the Soviet
Union before.

~~~
goldmab
Anti-semitism isn't always about religion. Sometimes it's just racism.

~~~
hakaaaaak
While some genetic characteristics can be considered Jewish, not all Jews have
those characteristics, so it could also be considered "anticulturalism". As a
Christian and gentile, I don't understand what it is like to be discriminated
against on so many levels. Christians have only been persecuted for < 2000
years, and we span the globe in radically different races and cultures. Only
certain faiths have as strong tendency to intermarry as Jews (almost always
marry another person of faith X)- Mormons and Scientologists come to mind
(note: that is the truth, not meant to be a slight against Mormonism).

------
pm90
The book " _Perfect Rigor: A Genius and the Mathematical Breakthrough of the
Century_ [0]" which details the life of Giorgi Perelman (who solved the famous
Poincare Conjecture) gives a detailed account of antisemitic policies extant
in the USSR at the time.

[0]:[http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Rigor-Mathematical-
Breakthroug...](http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Rigor-Mathematical-Breakthrough-
Century/dp/015101406X)

------
shn
I wonder what is the root cause of anti-semitism? I always thought that anti-
semitism is an illness that belonged exclusively to Europe, and they exported
this "problem" to Middle East. Now I read that Soviet era, in multiple regions
similar problem existed. But why? Do all other ethnics had their own fair
share? If not why Jews? Or Jewish people are just more outspoken?

~~~
bluekeybox
Something I've been wondering about myself... Can't answer your question, but
can only point out that you are a bit mistaken to treat Europe and ex-Soviet
territories (especially their European part) as two completely separate
worlds, since before the Iron Curtain came to exist, they shared quite a bit
of common history.

More reading about anti-Semitism in that territory:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmelnytsky_Uprising#Jews>

~~~
shn
I know that answer is not in this forum. However I expect someone may be heard
of a good book to explain this. A book based on research an anthropological
study but not on sentimental history of the problem. (By the way somebody down
voted my question. Isn't this a legitimate question?)

~~~
fusiongyro
I almost downvoted you because you said "Or Jewish people are just more
outspoken?" which sounds a bit like "Or are they asking for it?" but I decided
it was probably just a communication problem.

There are lots of books on this topic. "Why the Jews" is supposed to be good.
There's also "Antisemitism Explained" by Dr. Steven Baum, my former
psychiatrist, which I would expect to take a deep psychological analysis (but
I haven't read it).

~~~
shn
The book "Why the Jew" seems to address the issue more universal than the
other. I'll read the this one.

No, I did not intended to say "Or are they asking for it?". However I do not
care if people down vote my comments.

Thanks.

~~~
fusiongyro
If you didn't care you wouldn't have brought it up. :)

------
eli_gottlieb
_The next day, the director of admissions met my dad. My dad told him his
score, and asked if there had been some sort of mistake. The director simply
replied, “There’s been no mistake, but you should understand. We’ve already
exceeded our percentage for the upcoming semester.”_

 _My dad did understand. He was Jewish._

Oh God damn it, not again!

------
bahman2000
My dad had pretty much the same experience. He was not Jewish. He was not
Russian (slavic/blond/blue-eyed) either.

Russophilia, xenophobia, cronyism and nepotism were rampant in the former
USSR. A "prominent" Muscovite Jew (but otherwise a lousy student) would have
been treated better than the most talented Uzbek/Kazakh/Tajik.

------
vlokshin
Wow. Hits very close to home.

I was born in St. Petersburg, and my family immigrated to the US when I was 6
years old. My parents are kind, quiet people who weren't risk takers -- the
idea that they left everything behind was always bizarre to me.

My dad graduated #2 in St. Petersburg for Math/Science (he still has the
silver medal for this) but did not get in to the top engineering school. They
never gave him a real reason, but he had a Jewish last name.

He doesn't seem angry about it, nor does he really bring it up much -- but I
can't help but to imagine the risk taker / creator that could've been if he
wasn't stomped all over in the soviet days for being Jewish.

It's disgusting what decision makers during the soviet regime were able to get
away with.

------
kungfooguru
Not to say that the USSR was not anti-semitic in the 1970s, and after Stalin.
But I think a great example to show that the revolution was not about any of
that is that Ayn Rand Petrograd State University. A Jewish woman, thanks to
the revolution.

------
mk3
Good universities meant, the kids of ruling party must be admitted to have
good/better careers in apparatus than their parents. This is the main card
drawn against people. Some universities had big problem with that like the one
who prepared surveillance and contra-surveillance officers, so they switched
to admitting only people with no high ranking parents ties back in 80's. As
the kids from high ranking officer families were really well known. I also
believe there was a lot of ethnicity, and living place (soviet republic you
are coming from may shut down the doors into university) discrimination in
admission process.

------
sixofhearts
Kudos to your father, Ilya. This is a wonderful, timeless story of
perseverance and human desire. The characteristics and settings change, but
the spirit is always the same.

------
petethepig
Great story. I live in St-Petersburg and I have to correct you. The third
picture is not St. Petersburg University of Telecommunications, it is Grand
Hotel Europe — the fanciest hotel you can find here, basically you can tell
that by looking at the cars parked in front of it. And this is the building of
St. Petersburg University of Telecommunications — <http://goo.gl/maps/YRw4Q>

------
dragos2
This is a great story. Being from an ex-communist country, I've heard numerous
stories like this from my parents and their friends.

In my country the mandatory army service law was active until 2007. If you
didn't get admitted to a college, after finishing the high-school you would've
had to serve 1 year in the Army. You would also have to serve even if you got
into college, but only for about 6 months after graduating.

------
yurylifshits
In US, at the beginning of XXth century Stanley Kaplan had the similar
admission problems. This experience motivated him to start Kaplan SAT
preparation business. Few decades later it evolved into Kaplan Inc. (includes
Kaplan University).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Kaplan>

~~~
hncommenter13
Article by Malcolm Gladwell on this very topic:
<http://www.gladwell.com/2001/2001_12_17_a_kaplan.htm>

------
gopi
How is this different from the secret Asian admission quota Harvard and the
other elite US universities have?

------
babesh
My high school limited any one ethnic group to 45%. This was San Francisco, CA
and went on till at least the 90s. Different ethnic groups had different
scores to get in. The school district later was sued and the rule is no longer
in place.

------
qwerta
Such quotas were also in USA. Isaac Asimov originally applied to medical
university, but was not accepted for being jew. Hi started writing sci-fi
instead.

~~~
eurleif
>Such quotas were also in USA.

Are you sure about that past tense?
[http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-
an-...](http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/19/fears-of-an-asian-
quota-in-the-ivy-league/statistics-indicate-an-ivy-league-asian-quota)

~~~
qwerta
US system is broken anyway. Even asking for racial origin on application form
should be illegal. Here in Europe it is banned since Hitler.

------
CleanedStar
I read down to the first picture then got a TLDR sense. I did a find for "Jew"
and lo and behold, this was the "surprise" climax of this melodrama.

For one thing, before World War II, there was a Jewish quota in US Ivy League
schools. Why focus close to home in 1940 USA though when you can hear a yarn
from 1970 Uzbekistan, about as physically far from the majority of HN readers
as possible?

Secondly, before World War II, the center-right, even moderate trope in Europe
(and the US) was that the USSR was run by Jews. The typical picture (
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterO...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteArmyPropagandaPosterOfTrotsky.jpg)
) of the Red Army, run by Trotsky, and a politburo with Trotsky, Kamenev and
Zinoviev, as well as others who probably were Jews with converted familiies
(Krestinsky). So the right got to bash the USSR with being run by Jews when it
was convenient, now they get to bash it for being anti-semitic when that is
convenient. They get to have it both ways, shifting from one to the exact
opposite depending on the times.

Third, after the establishment of Israel, Israel and the USSR came more into
conflict as Israel allied itself with the US. Things were not that solid in
that regard in 1948, but it became clearer over time, and was certainly clear
after the 1967 war. This incident happened after 1967.

Jews in the USSR would go to a top flight school in the USSR, get their
diploma, then immediately go to Israel or the West and get paid a high salary.
In fact, certain parts of the Jewish community in the USSR encouraged this
behavior. The USSR had limited resources, why should it spend enormous funds
with its top scholastic positions educating Jews who were just going to leave?

The reality is this is what the other side demands. That the USSR give free
Bachelors and Masters and Doctorates at its best schools, blocking those
positions for Russians, and then the Jews who would get those degress would
skip town with their free doctorates as soon as they get their diplomas, so as
to make big money and build up the West.

Where could Jews get free education in the US? I'd like to get a free
education at a top school in the US. That doens't have to be paid back, and
the recipient would immediately move to China and build up their country. We
don't have that now, yet people like to pontificate that the 1970 USSR should
have offered that.

Also, most right wing Jews seem torn over their discussion of the USSR in two
poles. On one pole they'll openly discuss (in English! Not even Hebrew) on
Youtube videos and elsewhere how they used the Jewish community in the USSR to
subvert and undermine the government. On the other hand, they talk about how
crazy these governments were to think that Jews were trying to undermine their
governments. They say they were trying to subvert the Russian government, but
they can't help to boast in pride, in English even, how they did undermine the
government and were successful in doing so. The US interned all Japanese
people in the 1940s for much less. Yet the USSR didn't hand a free education
to every Jew who wanted a free doctorate from a top university before skipping
town, so let's bemoan how bad they had it in a country which no longer exists,
in something that happened over 40 years ago...

~~~
strlen
> Jews in the USSR would go to a top flight school in the USSR, get their
> diploma, then immediately go to Israel or the West and get paid a high
> salary.

Complete and utter anti-Semitic horse shit: my dad was prohibited from as much
as leaving the Soviet Union to attend a scientific conference until 1989. Even
so, he still did not want to leave the USSR or the post-USSR state until it
was clear (after Soviet Union's collapse) that economic opportunities for our
family were much better in the US (we finally moved in 1996).

Believe it or not, leaving everything behind and immigrating to a country with
a completely different economic and political system, a different language,
_and_ often a need to work in a completely different industry is _hard_ and
often the last resort. My dad researched mathematics at a university in USSR,
but that was simply not an option for him in US -- he ended working as a
grossly underpaid engineering manager in a startup; yet he was lucky --
friend's dad had a Ph.D. in Economics, but ended up doing menial labour and
later started a moving company. Going from masters/Ph.D. and "intelligentsia"
to menial or clerical labour was the rule for immigrants, not the exception.

> Where could Jews get free education in the US? I'd like to get a free
> education at a top school in the US.

Except that while university education in USSR was cheap, it was not actually
completely free: you could receive a stipend to help (if you qualify), but it
was not guaranteed.

All Ivy Leagues provide need-based scholarships. Top-tier public universities
can be extremely cheap (e.g., UT Austin) and many offer full-ride
scholarships. Getting a STEM degree free of charge is very well possible in
the United States.

Not to the mention, the idea that if a state pays for someone's education they
subsequently own them is quite repugnant.

~~~
democracy
> Except that while university education in USSR was cheap, it was not
> actually completely free: you could receive a stipend to help (if you
> qualify), but it was not guaranteed.

I don't undestand the logic here: so if the Government doesn't pay you to
attend Uni, this is not even free, but only 'cheap' education?

