
The Common Core Costs Billions and Hurts Students - prostoalex
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/opinion/sunday/the-common-core-costs-billions-and-hurts-students.html
======
jcbeard
You know, as a parent I'd heard many things about "Common Core" from the
media, other parents, and even family members. When my son got to kindergarten
I was a bit worried about overbearing tests and the lack of a tried and true
teaching method. Well, what we got were concepts. In kindergarten, my son
learned things that I recognized as basic number theory...almost as if it came
straight out of Andrew's book of the same title. Nothing advanced, but the
concepts were covered quite well. What he missed though was the ability to
calculate quickly...this I had to get him to do at home, and it came in time.
That being said, I think we need to divorce the common core from the testing
standards. Pulling out of the teaching space, any good manager can tell you
that applying a one size fits all approach to every person results in a lot of
miss-match. Lets stop vilifying the common core, but rethink the way we're
forcing teachers to apply it and the tests that states mandate to go with it.

One wonderful point that the author makes is something I've been saying for
years (as have many people):

What is called “the achievement gap” is actually an “opportunity gap.”

The opportunity gap is many things. It's lack of a safe, low-stress home
environment. It's a lack of time from overworked parents. It's lack of an
environment that promotes kids social skills. Things like the boys & girls
club provide some help in neighborhoods that have them, but there needs to be
much more. I'm extremely pessimistic on this point. I don't think the
willpower exists within our current generation of political power brokers
(although I do have some hope) to do anything about the common core to all of
our problems. Likely spending $1.59m per cruise missile is part of it, and the
other part what we seem to value in society....locking people up vs. fixing
the core issues ([http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/education-vs-
prison...](http://money.cnn.com/infographic/economy/education-vs-prison-
costs/)). We should not have to eat war to exist (almost quoted disturbed vs.
bad religion...but BR fit better).

~~~
rayiner
> Likely spending $1.59m per cruise missile is part of it, and the other part
> what we seem to value in society....locking people up vs. fixing the core
> issues

Cruise missles have nothing to do with it. We spend more on education per
capita than any other developed country besides Switzerland. And our best
performing school districts often spend a fraction of what our worst school
districts spend per student.

We don't have an educational problem in the US. We have social problems we're
trying (and failing) to fix by throwing money at schools. Our urban and poor-
rural teachers are trying to teach kids in places where the bottom has fallen
out of the social order. Changing how we do testing, etc., is rearranging deck
chairs on the titanic.

~~~
dmoy
Yea this is key. You can't teach a kid who is hungry, or worried about more
pressing issues.

~~~
JakeAl
What you describe as 'more pressing issues' can be defined as stressors and
it's a person's defense mechanisms or active coping skills for dealing with
them that determine their success in life. It's why kids are on psychotropic
medicines and can be triggered as adult-aged college students. Teaching people
how to actively deal with reality in a healthy productive manner is what we
need in common core.

------
elgabogringo
Would we buy "Government Software"? What about "Government computers"? Any of
you tried to go to the California DMV's in the Bay Area lately? How is
Government single-payer health care (the VA) working out for veterans?

Given this sentiment why do we feel like single-payer Government schools are
the answer to educating our children?

I just don't see how we can get incentives inside of a government system to
align with our goals of efficiently educating our children.

~~~
rabboRubble
The problem isn't government, the problem is US government.

I've seen plenty of examples in other countries of government working well.
Roads free of potholes. Trains that penetrate every part of the country, are
well maintained, and run on time. Public school education that provides
literacy rates in the 90%+ range. Single payer national health care systems
that are cost effective and beloved by the people under those systems' care.

Our US government failures are an extension of our public's lack of commitment
to the funding and policy needed for good government service.

The problem is us.

~~~
elgabogringo
Care to give actual examples? Sounds like you are living in a different world
than I am... And the "trains run on time" argument... Hmm... where have we
heard that before?

~~~
rabboRubble
I lived overseas for a great while, so some of this is first hand observation.
I hold the equivalent of a US green card in a foreign country and worked
extensively through Asia followed then by Europe.

Roads without potholes : Germany, Japan
[https://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/17/japans-
highways/](https://seattletransitblog.com/2009/04/17/japans-highways/)
[http://bridgemi.com/2014/04/why-are-germanys-roads-better-
or...](http://bridgemi.com/2014/04/why-are-germanys-roads-better-or-are-they/)
(after a more detailed read, this article doesn't support my point, but it's
still interesting. And the roads in Germany were nice when I drove on them.)

Trains running on time : Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea (I heard horror stories
about the UK system, but it worked well enough for me when I've gone there)
[http://kotaku.com/ever-wonder-why-japanese-trains-arent-
late...](http://kotaku.com/ever-wonder-why-japanese-trains-arent-late-heres-
why-1547844128)

Countries by literacy rate :
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate)
(You have to go down to Syria to for the equivalent US literacy rate. We don't
report our figures, but a quick Google search puts it about 86%)

Beloved national Health systems: Canada, France, even the UK's NHS

[http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-
us...](http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-
britain-canada.aspx)

[http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/health-care-
aroun...](http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/04/14/health-care-around-the-
world-france/)

Hope this helps~

------
MarkMc
From the article: "it seems clear that the pursuit of a national curriculum is
yet another excuse to avoid making serious efforts to reduce the main causes
of low student achievement: poverty and racial segregation"

There seems to be a common strain of thought that says we cannot close the
achievement gap unless we tackle poverty. Yet there is considerable evidence
to support the opposite view. Here is a summary of a few studies as reported
in _Teaching as Leadership_ [1]:

"The schools that are highly effective produce results that almost entirely
overcome the effects of student background" [2]

"Having a top-quartile teacher rather than a bottom-quartile teacher four
years in a row would be enough to close the black-white test score gap" [3]

"Differences in this magnitude -- 50 percentile points in just three years --
are stunning. For an individual child, it means the difference between a
'remedial' label and placement in the accelerated or even gifted track. And
the difference between entry into a selective college and a lifetime of low-
paying, menial work". [4]

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-As-Leadership-Effective-
Achie...](http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-As-Leadership-Effective-
Achievement/dp/0470432861)

[2] Marzano, R. J. _What Works in Schools: Translating Research into Action._
Alexandria, Va.: ASCD, 2003, p. 7

[3] Kane, T., Gordon, R. and Staiger, D. _Identifying Effective Teachers
Useing Performance on the Job_ Washington, D.C.: Brookings Institution, 2004,
p. 8

[4] Peske, H. and Haycock, K. _Teaching Inequality: How Poor and Minority
Students Are Short-Changed on Teacher Quality: A Report and Recommendations by
the Education Trust._ Washington, D.C.: Education Trust, 2006, p. 11

------
drawkbox
Testing may be overrated, needed but over emphasized.

Finland has a project based education system, turns out it is one of the best
in the world. The term is Phenomenon Based Learning [1] but really it is just
project based learning which matches the real world more. The tests aren't
multiple choice in Finland, you have to find the answer.

My favorite classes were project based classes, if they are fun and
intriguing, maybe education will sink in more. Learning math through
programming a game for instance over just worksheets and tests, show how you
can use trig/linear algebra to move things around a screen rather than just
getting an answer correct.

Financial and critical thinking courses are also lacking in most education
programs.

[1] [https://www.noodle.com/articles/phenomenon-based-learning-
wh...](https://www.noodle.com/articles/phenomenon-based-learning-what-is-pbl)

~~~
seanp2k2
Yep; US education has now become a game of "teach the kids how to pass the
tests, so we can get more money, so we can teach more kids how to pass the
tests, repeat". Kids come out of highschool with no idea what they want to do
or what reality is like. Schools run like prisons with crazy administrators
who would struggle to hold jobs in the world outside of school.

------
castratikron
No Child Left Behind started when I was in 6th or 7th grade.

On a day where we all had to do one of those standard tests, all of the
students would get a small breakfast for free, usually juice and granola bars.
That part of the test I liked. Whenever I'd get one of the tests, though, the
material that they tested me on was always a couple of years behind where I
was currently at, so for me it was mostly a waste of time.

The only classes that were worthwhile in high school where the ones that were
taught at a college level. In the US there's one program called "AP" where you
take a class, then at the end of the semester you can pay something like $70
to take a comprehensive exam on the material. If you get a high enough score
on the exam, most universities will allow you to transfer the AP course in as
credit. This program allowed me to rack up some college credits while I was
still in high school, and by the time I reached college I was able to jump
right into math classes at the second year level (not that big of a jump, but
still saved some time).

There are some problems with the AP system, for example after you've taken an
exam you aren't allowed to discuss the exam with anyone until a few days have
passed (which, if you've ever taken a hard exam, is agony), however I think
programs like these are where the real effort ought to be applied.

~~~
mod
> The only classes that were worthwhile in high school where the ones that
> were taught at a college level.

This is not true. It's more of a humblebrag. High-school level classes are
relevant and often difficult for high-school level students.

You were ahead of your peers, it doesn't mean the classes were worthless
(except perhaps to you and others at your level).

------
skywhopper
"Common Core" as a curriculum may or may not be good or bad, I don't know. But
so long as schools build their entire year around high-stakes standardized
testing, the students in our public schools are suffering. It's bizarre to me
that many (most?) states in the US require their teachers to get graduate
degrees, yet give them little if any control over the curriculum they use. Are
they highly trained professionals or just robots?

Today's standardized tests, given on computers, require typing skills the
students aren't taught. The computer systems fail or links are wrong, and
schools have so few computers that the testing process can take days, during
which time the entire school is disrupted. Spending a day or two a year on a
standardized test used for statistical purposes is a reasonable investment of
time and money. But spending weeks multiple times a year on tests that
determine the fate of teachers and schools is a massive failure.

It was obvious when NCLB was proposed that it was an end-run attempt to gut
support for struggling schools. That's played out as was easily predictable,
but now we seem to be doubling down. At some point, we have to learn as a
society that just because someone puts data into a computer and a number pops
out doesn't mean that number _actually_ has meaning.

------
gedy
I used to rail against "Common Core" \- but then realized the main issue I
have is with the use of Reform Math [1], which has been around longer than
that.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_mathematics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_mathematics)

------
toodlebunions
Everyone has an opinion, very few know what they're talking about. Even fewer
have experience.

------
WalterBright
> Children starting in the third grade may spend more than 10 hours a year
> taking state tests — and weeks preparing for them.

I don't really understand the issue there. There's about 900 hours/year of
instruction, and 10 hours of that being tests doesn't seem like a large
burden.

Secondly, "preparing for the tests" sounds like "learning", what is supposed
to be happening.

The article also complains about the inept implementation of online test
taking. How hard can that be? It's just a form being filled out. I don't see
why the tests can't be administered on paper and have the teachers grade them.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
It has been some time since I've been in school, but I still remember that
horribleness of the standardized test. You spend weeks hearing how important
it is, and we spent days sitting there still, in silence, filling in the
correct multiple choice answer on a sheet with a #2 pencil, hoping the teacher
didn't think we were cheating if we were stretching. For hours and hours at a
time. The tests took a few days. They told us (perhaps wrongly) that we
couldn't miss school during that time. Sometimes we were told we'd be deducted
for having a wrong answer, sometimes not. I'd rather do college finals each
year or split the stuff up over the course of the school year so it is less of
a burden.

The reason teachers can't grade them is because the schools use them to grade
the school and the teacher - some states, it determines funding for the
schools. Too low of a grade and you lose funding, meet the goals and you gain.

~~~
WalterBright
> For hours and hours at a time. The tests took a few days.

This is inconsistent with it being 10 hours total for the year.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
This is from a child's point of view, as my memories were from being a child,
so a few hours a day was a really long time. The actual math works out,
however. They did these over 3-4 days. 4 days is 2.5 hours a day: 3 days is 3
hours 22 minutes, approximately.

A day of testing, the SAT for example, wasn't quite that rough at a much older
age. 2 months ago I took official language exams here (immigrant). The main
portion was about 4 hours. I had a couple hour break, then the last portion
took about half an hour. The main part of the test was somewhat tiring for me
as an adult - I very highly doubt the testing week is less tiring for
children.

~~~
WalterBright
Sure, but 10 hours over 900 hours in the school year, this is not a major part
of it.

I remember taking standardized fill-in-the-bubble tests in the 60's and 70's.
They were mailed off to some central location to be graded by computer. It
just wasn't a stress filled, onerous thing, even though they were used to
assess school performance.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
I was in school in until the mid-90's. They used them as placement tests when
I took them. Do well, and it meant you were smart enough for the 'advanced'
stuff. Do poorly, and you have to take summer school and/or redo the grade. Do
poorly on the test, regardless of how well you do the rest of the year, and it
affects your opportunities. I remember hours of boredom, only compounded by
the fact that I tend to work quickly and was stuck sitting there quietly
waiting. My sister, however, always did poorly taking tests and they never
reflected what she knew. Some teachers gave some accommodations which improved
her regular scores, but the state test did not. Even then the curriculum was
changed to reflect tests, and the testing has only increased in importance
since we've been in school, to the point that the amount of help you get from
your teacher in some areas depends on how your test scores were last year.

------
rileymat2
"If we awarded driver’s licenses based on standardized tests, half the adults
in this country might never receive one."

This is an intersting quote, because I had to take a test to get my license.

~~~
kefka
But a standardized test assumes that a certain percentage will fail. Its the
same reason why aberrations like "Stack Ranking" are just as evil.

"What? All my people are excellent on my team, yet I have to rank a number of
them as 1's (a number of 1-bad, 2-neutral, and 3-awesome). I have no
choice..." \- Stack ranking in a nutshell.

You could be an a school that 99% have the intelligence to pass. But yet, some
bureaucrat says that a certain number has to fail, no matter what.

Compare that to a Drivers License test, where we test on if you know that
material to drive. There is no required minimum number of people who fail, nor
is there a comparison to others. It's you and a minimum test passing rate.

------
Deckard256
The system works as its designed to. It produces standardized young adults
that are compliant to authority. Standardized tests don't really tell us a
whole lot about how functional these kids are, outside of how compliant they
are. The two (yes two) professionals that helped produce common core, now
lecture against it.

------
WalterBright
I've been around long enough to see many waves of reform run through the
schools, followed by ridicule and abandonment.

------
tzs
Common Core has attracted some rather far out criticism. I have not been able
to decide whether this is amusing or appalling.

It "will promote double-mindedness in state education and attract every one of
your children to become as homosexual as they possibly can", according to
Florida State Rep. Charles Van Zant (R) [1].

Similar criticism from the American Family Association [2]. If it is not
stopped, the only way for Christians to survive will be to form a parallel
society with its own jobs and economy [3].

According to Glenn Beck, "that's why I think common core is here, because it
will train us to be a serf state, it will train us and it will keep us in
order to answer to the Chinese or whoever it is". (He thinks we'll be ruled by
an American technocrat under the control of China, with China employing
Muslims as enforcers to keep us in line). Video of Beck covering this here
[4]. Summary here [5].

According to Dr. Karen Effrem, president of Education Liberty Watch, creates
"a womb-to-tomb dossier on kids and families" that includes between 300 and
400 different data points, such as parents’ voting status, religious
affiliation, medical data, newborn screening and genetic data [6].

[1] [http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/05/19/3439163/state-
rep-c...](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2014/05/19/3439163/state-rep-common-
core-gay/)

[2] [http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/rios-schools-no-
longer...](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/rios-schools-no-longer-teach-
reading-and-writing-now-just-promote-homosexuality)

[3] [http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/sandy-rios-fears-
child...](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/sandy-rios-fears-children-
wont-survive-common-core-christians-will-have-build-parallel-socie)

[4]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUIGMhgN1Iw&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUIGMhgN1Iw&feature=youtu.be)

[5] [http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/beck-common-core-
desig...](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/beck-common-core-designed-
train-us-be-serf-state-ruled-china-and-islam)

[6] [http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/nsa-ops-walk-in-park-next-to-
plan...](http://www.wnd.com/2014/01/nsa-ops-walk-in-park-next-to-plans-to-
track-kids/)

~~~
ZeroGravitas
At least the people who think their kids will be brainwashed into
homosexuality are clear about what they think the problem is. I've read quite
a few things on the supposed problems of common core and been left with no
information whatsoever. Generally I'm not even sure the person knows what
common core actually is. complajning

