
Diesel and petrol ban should come much faster, say MPs - bauc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45899580
======
CalRobert
I have a hard time imagining how somebody could be opposed to this and pretend
they have anything but selfish motivations.

Emissions kill people. They kill the elderly. They kill people with asthma.
They give people cancer. Your car is an instrument of death even if you don't
hit anyone. Parts of the UK have appallingly bad air quality (by regional
standards; obviously it's not Beijing).

People are dying en masse but because you can't see it and say "my car was the
one that killed them" most people just. don't. care.

Also the majority of trips are short enough to be done via bike or ebike if
you give people safe routes to do so, something the UK has been completely
unwilling to do.

~~~
ddorian43
You fix things by working from the top of highest offenders. Something tells
me it's not the average people.

~~~
CalRobert
Indeed - so focusing on large companies selling devices causing massive
destruction makes perfect sense.

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WordyMcWordface
I have a hard time imagining an electric car working for me. There are two
charging points within a 2-mile radius and I cannot park within about 15
meters of my house so it is just impossible to charge one.

Hydrogen or something where I can still go to a "filling station" might work.
Right now I view electric cars as a tax break for anyone lucky/rich enough to
have a driveway.

This might all change in a few years but I doubt there will ever be enough
charging points on local roads.

~~~
jstanley
Before there were petrol stations everywhere, it would have been hard to
imagine a car working better than a horse.

And yet here we are.

~~~
fredley
But you still can't put the cart before the horse. Tax people who don't switch
to a viable, cleaner alternative from dinosaur-burning vehicles, but not
before you've made that alternative viable in the first place. Much (most?) of
the UK is not ready for full switchover yet.

~~~
Swenrekcah
2032 is still 14 years away which is a long time. And according to the article
it’s even then just about banning the sale of new vehicles. This should be
completely doable if the UK puts half a mind to it.

~~~
fredley
Unfortunately the UK does not have half a mind to spare, and won't for a few
years at least. One of the less noticable side-effects of Brexit is that it
totally dominates the entire political landscape, to the exclusion of other
issues.

In a news magazine I read[1], they had an infographic where they measured the
average number of comments below articles on a number of unrelated topics it
took for Brexit to be mentioned. The figures were mostly below 10 (and look at
me, bringing up Brexit in _this_ unrelated issue!)

1: [https://www.slow-
journalism.com/infographics/culture/infogra...](https://www.slow-
journalism.com/infographics/culture/infographic-can-british-people-talk-about-
anything-other-than-brexit)

------
lixtra
Why not raise tax instead of banning?

You can tax cars and fuel. You can make a predictable scheme for the next 20
years (i.e. fuel will raise about 4% per year,...) This gives the economy time
to adopt.

But please no exceptions.

~~~
fredley
Because this disproportionally affects people who have no other alternative.
Rich city people can switch to electric cars without changing habits that
much, there are charging points everywhere and they're building lots more all
the time.

Go to Cornwall though and it's a _very_ different picture. You need to get all
these more remote regions as wired up as central London _before_ introducing
any taxation, or make exceptions while you're building the infra.

~~~
crc32
You could build up e.g. Cornwall (through subsidy) with the revenue from the
tax.

~~~
fredley
You could, but people would be pissed about being taxed to pay for something
they don't have yet (and hence have no way to avoid the tax). While it might
be a sensible strategy for raising the money it would be political suicide.

~~~
lixtra
So how are they better of by banning cars in 10 or 20 years?

Communities can also take loans to build out infrastructure now and pay with
the transition tax levied a bit later.

As too political suicide, there are three types of voters:

a) those that believe petrol cars should be banned

b) those that do not want to give up their cars ever

c) those that think cars should be banned but not for them now.

Therefore:

a) should be happy with an immediate tax ladder as it creates incentive to
move now

b) will never be happy.

c) if that is the majority of your voters it’s still better to have a a
gradual change now then a sudden change in the future. They could just
overturn your decision in the future just before the planned sudden change.

If MPs urge for a change that is more than one election away they are
hypocrites and shouldn’t be MPs.

Obviously some changes take a long time to bear fruits, but the change has to
be immediate and gradual.

------
nemodmarg
Electric cars seems like such an obvious answer for so many issues, but still
outside of US it is pretty much impossible to find a reliable and affordable
options.

~~~
PuffinBlue
Rest of the world is doing alright thanks.

Ioniq, Kone, Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, BMW i3, e-up, e-golf etc etc.

You can even get iPace or the e-tron will also be out next year.

Some I've listed are more expensive than others, but you cannot possibly
suggest the Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf aren't affordable or reliable.

The model 3 will be here soon too, who knows what will be here in 14 years!

------
setquk
MPs who don’t understand the power distribution logistics and lack of capacity
problems we have here...

~~~
simonbarker87
This is touted out so much but switching cars over to EVs would require the
grid to be increased less than 50% as EVs use about 30% the energy of a
combustion engine. Given that most cars will be charged over night the reality
is that it would be less than this.

~~~
skgoa
Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are connected
to the charger. Which almost always happens in late afternoon or early
evening. I.e. the exact time when the energy usage is at a peak already. While
there are many ideas regarding how this load can be pushed into the dead of
night, nothing concrete has even been proposed, yet. So I wouldn't dismiss
this issue that quickly, especially when we are talking about a (theoretical)
rapid adoption of BEVs.

~~~
davidgould
> Currently all BEVs charge at their maximum rate the moment they are
> connected to the charger.

This is not remotely close to true. Most BEVs have timed and/or location aware
charging. My own Spark EV for example (a very low end BEV) can be scheduled to
charge during certain hours each day of the week. I use this because our
electric utility has lower rates from 11PM until 7AM. So no matter when I plug
it, the car waits for the cheap electric rate period.

~~~
skgoa
"Can" and "does" are not the same, though.

~~~
davidgould
Well, mine both can and does because the utility makes it worth while. Your
original claim was "all". Generally this problem is easily solved by adjusting
pricing to encourage the desired charge times. Certainly there may be a few
holdouts who don't take advantage, but a few is not a problem.

