
The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think - hug
https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
======
dajohnson89
I think we underestimate how much time is required to be really good with
computers. I'm very knowledgeable about computers, but I've been using them
heavily for 22 years.

We have this innate comfort and familiarity with using computers, but as
hackers it's a huge part of our lives. People have other ways of life than us,
and have other expertise. We shouldn't dismiss their computer illiteracy as
stupidity; it's just as bad as them writing us off as "computer nerds".

There's also this tendency for non-computer-literate people to be overly self-
deprecating. I noticed this with mathematics, when I tutored people @ uni, but
with computers it's the same shit. I constantly hear "yeah, I'm awful with
computers, it's all black magic to me". But the person saying that is often
not even trying, which is frustrating. It's like a helpless excuse to be lazy
and let someone else do the work, which is often not that complicated.

~~~
bambax
I don't know about that. There seems to be something innate about one's
ability to use computers.

My father is 85 and is quite good with computers; he uses email constantly,
writes documents and books using word processors and understands the concept
of files, reads on a Kindle, etc. But he had never touched a computer before
he was maybe 70 (let alone own one), and before that he wasn't technical at
all. He was trained as a Latin teacher (!) and spent his professional life in
politics, never having to type anything by himself.

My father-in-law is very good at many manual tasks including woodworking,
electricity, electronics, and was an officer in the French army for many
years, where he was responsible for maintaining highly technical weapons. He
too is 85 and he can't seem to understand computers, although I have known him
for 15 years and have been trying to help him for that long. He seems to want
to learn but isn't really interested in what one would call "the big picture",
he just wants to know a list of actions that will get them to where he wants
to go. Of course that approach fails miserably whenever something happens
that's not on the list.

I have two friends who have been to top engineering schools who, I discovered
recently, type whole urls not in the browsers' bar but in Google's search
form. My eldest son is 11 and doesn't confuse the two. My younger son is 7 and
doesn't seem much interested.

~~~
roryisok
Typing URLs into the search bar of Google is very common. I see it all the
time. If google is your default new tab page there's really nothing wrong with
it. One extra click maybe.

~~~
Freak_NL
It does imply that the user is not (sufficiently) aware of the difference
between a browser and a for-profit search engine. It's a type of behaviour
that makes people dependent on a service where no dependency is needed. Also,
how many of these users are both aware that they are sharing large parts of
their browsing behaviour with Google and are okay with that?

~~~
vilhelm_s
Well, most browsers are for-profit too. Typing an address into Chrome's
address bar will still send it to Google so they can give suggestions back, I
think. (E.g., if I type "[http://www.abc"](http://www.abc") into the bar, it
suggests an autocomplete to "www.abcnews.com", which I have never visited.
Doing the same in a 'Private Browsing' window turns off this autocomplete.)
I'm not convinced that distinguishing between address bar and search field is
either a necessary of a sufficient condition for understanding Internet
privacy.

------
jonmc12
I analyzed technology proficiency level vs adult literacy level. Listing the
equivalent literacy level with relatively equal % of population. ie, level 3
proficiency is 5% of population; above a college reading level is 5% of adult
population:

    
    
      Cant use computers ~ Under 4th Grade level including illiterate
      Below level 1 ~ 4-6th grade reading level
      Level 1 ~ 6-10th grade reading level
      Level 2 ~ 10th-college reading level
      Level 3 ~ College+ reading level
    

Literacy %'s from [https://contently.com/strategist/2015/01/28/this-
surprising-...](https://contently.com/strategist/2015/01/28/this-surprising-
reading-level-analysis-will-change-the-way-you-write/)

~~~
sytelus
This is not adding up... 32% of US population has Bachelor's degree but only
5% has college level reading skills? I think original survey probably has some
fatal flaws. May be they should re-publish results after only taking in to
account individuals of age 25 years or more _who actually respond_.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_th...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States)

~~~
johngalt
Anecdata: I know a lot of well educated people who don't read. At all.

What reading level would you expect for someone who got a degree in their
early twenties then didn't read anything more complicated than People magazine
for decades after.

~~~
csa
Level 1 or 2. They may have never been functional at level 3 (not that there
is anything wrong with that).

Level 3 means that someone can consistently read and comprehend the full
meaning of college-level texts. In the US, one does not need to read at this
level to graduate from college (or even many grad schools).

There are many people in the world who are smart and/or very knowledgeable who
don't consistently read and comprehend at level 3 across the range of topics
covered in a typical college curriculum.

Source: Me. I have trained people in both reading literacy and tech literacy.
My experience is both theoretical and practical. Feel free to ask follow-up
questions if you have any.

------
morecoffee
Even most programmers are distributed like this. My team recently was doing
usability tests of a networking library that I work on. We screen recorded a
few random programmers try to install it and then make a simple app with it,
giving them access to our tutorial and Hello World demo.

It was painful to watch them stumble about, trying to debug installation
errors that seem obvious to us. Just like trying to watch a lay person try to
use a computer, watching these other people made me want to blurt out the
answer.

Any of the lessons that you take away from designing simpler UI for lay people
applies just as much to professionals. Write a better API, a better library,
and better documentation.

~~~
hueving
Being blunt, it's also possible that your library was garbage from a usability
perspective. It's nearly impossible to recognize how painful it is to work
with your own code since you are so intimately involved in writing it.

~~~
freehunter
That's most likely true. Most libraries are horrible to install and configure
and only make sense to the people who wrote it.

I gave up on learning PHP and Laravel recently when I went to install Laravel
and they recommend Homestead. So I went to install Homestead, but they require
Vagrant. Of course Vagrant requires VirtualBox, and VB can't find my kernel
source code on RHEL 6.5. Okay, so let's skip Vagrant... Okay, now I need to
install Composer instead of Homestead... what's this? SSL operation failed...
failed to enable crypto... operation failed in command line code...

Yeah I give up. Yeah, I could take the time to work through this nonsense, but
I shouldn't have to. Getting multiple layers deep of having to install
dependency A to satisfy dependency B which satisfies dependency C is not my
idea of fun.

------
Throwaway23412
Links like this illustrate what a distorted bubble the typical HNer lives in.

I've lost track of how many times I've seen a product or company posted here
and HNers will say "I can already do that myself." For instance, I still
chuckle at the "you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially"
comment in the Dropbox HN post nearly a decade ago.

~~~
digi_owl
Even within HN there are bubbles inside the bubbles.

I keep seeing _sec people make statements that only makes sense if one is the
administrator/dictator of a company network or server farm, and that are
basically impossible to implement on a personal computer without effectively
treating the user as an attacker.

~~~
gr3yh47
> Even within HN there are bubbles inside the bubbles.

sup dawg...

------
roel_v
They should have included a category 'below 0': "User attempts to complete
task by using the interface provided to him. Gives up in disgust after 15
minutes. Spends next 8 hours to (in this order) use common automation tools to
reach his goals, write small scripts, reverse engineer the data and network
formats, and disassemble the executable to inject his own hooks. After still
failing to accomplish task, user tries to gradually replace parts of the
provided software with his own versions; first using quick glue languages,
eventually having to resort to rewrote large core parts in C just to have
enough control of all components to make them interoperate. After 4 weeks of
caffeine-fueled 16 hour days, user declares war on the vendor and starts
writing his own version of the software and ecosystem to free humanity of the
plague that is this god-forsaken piece of crapware. After 8 months of battling
30 years of legacy interoperability, data exchange formats and interfaces and
the 8th question from Suzy in Admin about where the button that made the one
thing with the blue border go away and then made the green other thing go
bleep bleep has gone, user flees to off-grid cabin in the mountains with a
beard below his collarbone and a crazed look in his eyes, while muttering
'they drew first blood. They drew first blood.' The end."

(bonus upvote for the first person to recognize the movie reference)

~~~
jswny
I don't know where this is from but it literally made me laugh out loud, so
thank you.

~~~
roel_v
It's [OC] so thank you - and I'm not ashamed to admit that during the first
few hours after I posted it, it was up/downvoted a bit and it even got to -1
for some time; and that at that point I cried a tiny little tear inside,
filled with essence of the programmer's existentialist anxiety...

------
threatofrain
I would like to think about the set of skills that don't revolve entirely
around coincidental interfaces made by a few mega corporations.

Are there computer skills more general than the ability to use iMessage or
Windows Live Mail? Because if using iMessage means you now know how to chat,
then what happens when NewChat(tm) comes out with a new brand experience?

What happens when Microsoft goes Metro or Windows 10?

As a society, should we be paying for user training for specific familiarity
with proprietary interfaces? Shouldn't Microsoft or Apple be paying for this
stuff? This is why I'm generally very suspicious of what people mean by
"computer skills" in schools. They generally mean user training for Apple,
Microsoft, or Google.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
>Are there computer skills more general than the ability to >use iMessage or
Windows Live Mail?

wouldn't that be knowing how to program?

~~~
wolfgke
>> I would like to think about the set of skills that don't revolve entirely
around coincidental interfaces made by a few mega corporations.

> wouldn't that be knowing how to program?

Nearly all programming languages or instruction sets for assembly languages
are also coincidental interfaces (this time for programming), often (though
not always) at least originally designed by some "megacorp":

\- Assembly languages: typically the respective processor vendor

\- C: Bell Labs (AT&T)

\- C#: Microsoft

\- Go: Google

\- Java: Sun (now Oracle)

\- Javascript: Netscape

\- Objective-C: NeXT (now Apple)

\- R: A reimplementation of S (originally by Bell Labs; later commercially
offered by TIBCO Software (another megacorp) under the name "S-PLUS").

\- Swift: Apple

So what I would consider as more general computer skills is rather the
mathematical or the electrical engineering side of computing.

~~~
jerf
"Nearly all programming languages or instruction sets for assembly languages
are also coincidental interfaces (this time for programming), often (though
not always) at least originally designed by some "megacorp":"

Nearly all the mainstream, massively successful ones, yes. But the vast bulk
of languages are not, and there is little evidence to be provided that there
is some sort of massive advantage to be gained by "normal users" for any of
them. There are _better_ ones than those for some purposes, yes, but after
many thousands of languages it's not like there's one that is clearly better
for non-programmers, and this after at least several dozen and probably
several hundred attempts explicitly aimed at that purpose.

Asking for people to understand the math is an even larger ask than asking
them to understand the programming, which I base on the fact you can still
find a very significant percentage of professional programmers, possibly even
the majority, who have disdain for the mathematical elements of computing.

~~~
klodolph
This is a not-very-generous reading of "most", because while I read that as
"most programming languages (weighed by how often they are used)" you can
_also_ read that as "most programming languages (weighed by counting them)" if
you want to prove some point.

~~~
jerf
In the context of discussing whether or not there is a more non-programmer
friendly programming language, the fact that there are dozens or hundreds of
attempts at that specific problem, which have largely failed, is relevant. The
programming world is not defined by the top 10ish commercial languages;
they're merely "very important".

It is also not an unfriendly reading when my _very first words_ (which I have
not edited) acknowledge the alternative readings.

~~~
klodolph
I might just be confused, but I'm having a hard time understanding what point
you're trying to make. I've read your comments and the context a couple times
now and now I'm only sure that you're reading something in other comments that
I'm simply not reading.

Yes, there are programming languages aimed at non-programmers. Many of these
are also "commercial" languages, or at least were commercial in origin (like
C). Smalltalk (Xerox), Hypertalk (Apple), the efforts towards 5GLs in the
1980s, Visual Basic (Microsoft), etc. We agree that these are relevant, I'm
just not sure what point you're trying to make with that relevance, and I'd
love it if you could elaborate.

~~~
jasode
_> , I'm just not sure what point you're trying to make with that relevance, _

I'll make an attempt to explain why jerf's response looks out of place.

Basically, wolfgke and jerf looked at the 2 groupings of programming languages
(mainstream megacorps vs unknown) as evidence for _2 different goals_.

wolfgke: _generalization path_ \-- dominance of megacorps languages means you
must keep going one level lower in hierarchy of computer science concepts to
learn _universal_ concepts instead of _proprietary_ syntax.

jerf: _pedagogy ease of use_ \-- megacorps languages are not provably any
harder to learn than specialized toy languages

How did those two end up talking about 2 different things?!?

If you look at the comment chain from posters _threatofrain--
>bryanrasmussen-->wolfgke_ ... they started a dialogue that keeps diving lower
and lower in underlying principles. It's a variation of the XKCD comic about
"purity".[1]

jerf's response doesn't continue that purity dissection. Instead, his emphasis
on _pedagogy_ seems to point back to the original article by Jakob Nielsen
which prompted this thread. That article says that elite users (like HN
readers) can use complicated computer software and we forget that most others
can't. The communication breakdown was assuming that wolfgke listed the
megacorps language as a (ease-of-use) response to J Nielsen instead of a
specific (purity) reply to bryanrasmussen.

But then again, I might have misunderstood _everybody_ and I have no idea what
people were trying to say.

[1][https://xkcd.com/435/](https://xkcd.com/435/)

~~~
wolfgke
> wolfgke: _generalization path_ \-- dominance of megacorps languages means
> you must keep going one level lower in hierarchy of computer science
> concepts to learn _universal_ concepts instead of _proprietary_ syntax.

Correct, with the additional (IMHO important) fact that threatofrain
criticized "coincidental interfaces made by a few mega corporations" and
looked for more general skills, bryanrasmussen meant that "knowing how to
program" is such a skill, but I analyzed that most popular programming
languages are also just "coincidental interfaces made by a few mega
corporations" (this time for programming instead of the general user), so that
we have nothing won concerning the original problem of "coincidental
interfaces made by a few mega corporations" \- we are just some layers deeper.
So I suggested that if you look for more general skills, you probably have to
look even deeper into the mathematical or the electrical engineering side of
computing.

------
jmiserez
I would have liked to see screenshots of the UIs they used, but they seem to
be absent from the OECD report.

A lot of the standard tasks we do with office/business software are
unintuitive, but easily learned once someone shows you or you Google it. Even
as a designer or developer, it's not always clear what each button does.

> _participants were asked to perform 14 computer-based tasks. Instead of
> using live websites, the participants attempted the tasks on simulated
> software on the test facilitator’s computer. This allowed the researchers to
> make sure that all participants were confronted with the same level of
> difficulty across the years and enabled controlled translations of the user
> interfaces into each country’s local language._

Same with the language used in software: Sometimes tranlating UI buttons
actually makes usability worse, because now you have to learn the shared
language all over again. The descriptions on UI elements are often useless,
unless you already know what the buttons do.

~~~
kagamine
I've been telling my SO to "google it" for years. She won't do it unless I ask
her to. Then when she does, I do this -> 0_o because, really, why are you
typing that? Do you not know how to google?

Anyway, all this misses the point. If you have to google how to use a GUI the
software has failed at a fundamental level.

------
calebsurfs
You can take the technology part of the test here:

[http://www.oecd.org/skills/ESonline-
assessment/](http://www.oecd.org/skills/ESonline-assessment/)

I have to admit I found it somewhat difficult, it's not surprising that most
people performed poorly on it.

~~~
Illniyar
I took the test (demo test at least).

Only 2 out of 6 questions had anything to do with UI/UX - the rest were either
reading comprehension and/or basic math.

From the 2 that dealt with UI/UX, both were extremely hard, in one of them I
had to send an email, get a token and navigate the site to send another email.

If this is what the results are based on, I wouldn't base any UI/UX decisions
for web products on the results of this test.

~~~
mrob
The simulated environment also makes it more difficult. I accidentally tried
to go back in the real browser instead of the simulated browser and broke the
test. The simulated environment is also very slow.

~~~
hbk1966
And I requested the code 2 or 3 times until I realized there was a email tab
at the bottom.

------
nokya
I see the argument of "not enough hours of practice" in some comments. I
disagree. That would be true if there was a direct correlation between
moderate proficiency in computers (e.g.: ability to independently reinstall
your machine completely and diagnose which hardware component to replace after
a failure).

The unmentioned problem here is that people are actively reluctant (this is
tested, too) to learn the skills that would let them be more independent. I
doubt this is entirely related to the total amount of hours spent at a
computer.

In some way, computer literacy seems to be a similar scenario than cars: the
homo simplex doesn't want to understand how it works, he/she just wants it to
work while enjoying the luxury of not needing to understand it while posting
duck faces on Instagram.

Let's face it, computer illiterates understand less, pay more and end up
having lower purchasing power. Considering that this is entirely under their
control, I find this quite fair (I have different opinions about Seniors, but
that's another discussion).

To be honest, I can find only one valid reason for this to be an issue: civil
liberties and human rights.

I'm intimately and increasingly concerned by how much civil liberties have
been taken from citizens in "developed" countries in the recent years, and I
am under the impression that this is the direct effect of computer illiteracy
spread across all levels of the population.

Citizens are being asked to vote on laws relying on technological concepts
they don't understand, and which end up in striping them from their rights.

That's what computer illiteracy is about and that's what (I think) the article
should talk about... :(

~~~
thesimpsons1022
my father is a professor and has been asking my mom the same questions about
microsoft word for the past 20 years, never learning it. he spends a lot of
time on it too.

~~~
k__
I understand that some software really sucks.

For exmple word processors, I really hate them with all my heart, but when
getting a degree, I had to write much stuff. So I sat down and learned the
core functions of Libre Office Writer and it made my life better.

Even my profs. were amazed how good my papers looked. Not because they were
really good, but because none of my fellow computer science students bothered
to learn the software and make them look good.

~~~
mnw21cam
You wrote a scientific paper in LibreOffice?

Not LaTeX?

~~~
k__
I thought it would take too long to learn latex.

Writer had a nice DSL for math terms, so I had everything I need.

~~~
mnw21cam
(Yeah, alright, I have written a scientific paper in LibreOffice as well. But
it was one that was started by someone else, I just finished it. And I didn't
inhale.)

------
laurieg
This reminds me of a UX lecture I attended in undergrad in the UK.

The lecturer flashes up a picture and says "who is this?". There is a sea of
blank faces as a reply. The picture was of Roy Chubby Brown [1] who by some
measures was the most popular comedian in Britain at the time. Out of nearly
100 people no one had any idea.

You are not average. Not even close.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Random trivia: the fictional town in the cult TV series "The League of
Gentlemen" is named after Roy Chubby Brown:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royston_Vasey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royston_Vasey)

------
djb_hackernews
This would have been surprising until a week ago when a friend of mine sent me
this image of course offerings for those signing up for unemployment:
[https://imgur.com/gallery/tCG6J](https://imgur.com/gallery/tCG6J)

Side note: If anyone is looking for an experienced technical sales person in
Boston let me know! They have experience with startups, IPOs, large
corporations, channel sales, and has the sales gift in a non sleazy way.

------
auganov
I'd like to see the data for people below 25. It's unclear how much of that
distribution is due to adoption lag.

~~~
VLM
All kids have been experts on computers for about three generations now. Its
no longer a valid meme.

There's kids now that don't know what VCR was, but you can assure them that
their Grandpa was the only person in the household who could figure out how to
program the timer.

~~~
yoz-y
The idea that kids or young people are better with computers is not actually
true. Yes they can use apps, some of them can install them, but for the most
part they are clueless when it comes to actually fixing a problem with a
computer.

[http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-
comput...](http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
In fact everybody who seems to be a 'computer expert' is probably comfortable
at just one layer or two. Layers include

    
    
       running applications
       installing applications
       writing applications
       installing services and drivers
       writing services and drivers
       installing operating systems
       writing code for operating systems
       writing kernel code
       designing hardware
       designing chips
       designing chip technologies
       chemistry and physics

------
schoen
The clear message of the article is about increasing awareness of users'
limitations, but I'm also wondering what can be done to increase people's
computer literacy. When we see statistics about functional illiteracy in the
traditional print sense, we might think about ways of minimizing demands for
people to read things, but we might also wonder _how we can help improve
literacy_.

So, believing in the analogy between print literacy and computer literacy, I
want to ask that question here too. What helps or doesn't help, and what can
change? How early would different interventions have to start to be helpful?

~~~
pbhjpbhj
In my kids UK primary school ICT (Info & Comp. Tech) amounts to playing games,
not even computing focused ones just crappy flash games.

It's like teaching literacy by giving them only picture books. They'd be able
to handle books, turn the pages, etc., just not actually use them properly.

With games like lightbot, apps like turtles and Scratch, and sites like
code.org I can't really see the excuse for this.

~~~
flukus
At the very list give them dosbox and make them enable extended memory.

~~~
davegauer
Your comment caught me off guard and made me laugh out loud.

There were so many things about those early systems which were not universal
skills at all, but simply hardware limitations (or holdovers from previous
hardware limitations - or just terrible design).

And yet, after watching my kid learning to use a computer, I do feel a deep
nostalgia for the single-purpose simplicity of the command line I grew up
with.

------
Walkman
There is a scene in Silicon Valley (the series) where Richard thinks the
interface of the platform is really simple and intuitive, but turns out he
only asked Level 3 people and above and it was not easy to use at the Level 1
people.

------
aamederen
Well, in Turkey, because of frequent bans on websites, a good amount of
younger people know what DNS is, what a VPN is, how do they work, which one is
better than the other, etc. I can say that people on Level-1 use these tools
to solve "problems" and people on level-2 can set these stuff up for them.

------
libeclipse
>26% of adults were unable to use a computer

What? This is really surprising. I expected some people to be really poor at
using computers, but not being able to use them at all? Wow. TIL

~~~
sjf
I didn't realise this until I heard that Hillary didn't know how to use a
desktop computer and could only use a specific version of blackberry.
Apparently it's still possible to be to totally functional without using
technology.

~~~
jodrellblank
Trump either:

 _The New York Times reported on Nov. 6 that Trump “does not use a computer,”
which explains why he was perplexed at his campaign spending millions of
dollars on digital ads._ \- [http://qz.com/829647/donald-trump-and-hillary-
clinton-dont-k...](http://qz.com/829647/donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton-dont-
know-how-to-use-computers/)

[http://gizmodo.com/has-donald-trump-ever-used-a-
computer-176...](http://gizmodo.com/has-donald-trump-ever-used-a-
computer-1762376695)

[http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/09/27/trump_kno...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/09/27/trump_knows_terrifyingly_little_about_computers.html)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
He probably doesn't drive or cook either. Is that perhaps as much a rich
person thing as anything? I suspect he does most things by proxy?

~~~
sjf
I'm sure he _knows_ how to drive. Its getting to the point where not being
able to use a computer has the same impact as not knowing how to read.

~~~
freehunter
I don't think that's true anymore. If anything we're getting _past_ the point
where not knowing how to use a computer is harmful. Smartphones and tablets
have really lowered the barrier to entry for modern (high-tech) life.

Desktop operating systems are complex and hard and if you do the wrong thing,
you can break everything. Mobile OSes don't give you those options.

~~~
uabstraction
"Smartphones and tablets have really lowered the barrier to entry for modern
(high-tech) life."

This is true - however these devices have also completely taken away our
computational freedom as well. In fact, I'd argue that computer literacy is
more important than ever. The only thing that has changed is that now society
suffers as a whole from computer illiteracy, instead of just the computer
illiterate. They can still post cat photos on social media, but a growing
segment of the population has no idea how any of this works, and is at the
mercy of Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook, Zynga, etc.

As someone who grew up with computers and started making Doom maps when I was
8, and programming C++ on Linux when I was 14, I see this trend as an oncoming
storm. Its as if we were replacing libraries with cable television. Computers
(phones and tablets specifically) are transforming from a platform that
enables us to do anything we want, to a sort of Disneyland marketplace where
nothing exists unless there is money to be made, regardless of ethics.

I think its more important now than ever for people to understand how to
identify and select legitimate software that doesn't have ulterior motives,
and put together a system which serves no one but it's owner. I suppose this
is exactly what TFA says is impossible, but damn is it important.

------
nokya
Good news for politicians. Only 5% of the population actually understand how
dangerous they are for civil liberties.

------
jrapdx3
This is a great topic and an informative article. As a probable exception to
the rule, I'm an "older" individual with decent computer skills. No doubt it's
attributable to managing and programming computers out of necessity since the
IBM PC days. Having to learn everything the hard way has its merits.

Related to the article I created and maintain a database application for an
non-profit arts organization. It involves membership, artwork inventory and
exhibitions. It's a fairly complex task, almost all the work goes into the
web-based UI, while the PostgresQL backend/server is pretty straightforward.

The challenging part is getting the artists and volunteers to _actually use_
the DB program. The UI is as simple and unambiguous as I can make it. There's
only so much to do to make a record with two dozen fields to fill in "simple".

One method is using dropdown options to select from where that fits. Also
avoiding hidden "tricks" the user would have to know, giving on-screen
examples of proper field format (like date or time entries) and providing
concise, specific, instructive error messages.

Even with all that effort, convincing users to try it out has proven the
biggest hurdle to success. I've come to realize a key to the tool's utility is
constant encouragement. Live demos are often a useful way to help people "get
over the hump" of fear and resistance.

Ironically, the "power users" often show the greatest resistance to trying out
the web app. While it's made to work as directly as possible, power users fear
they will look "dumb" if they don't instantly grasp the operation of every
feature.

What I've learned (again) is it requires empathy for users' fears and sense of
intimidation, and assuring the app is designed with "foolproof" safeguards
preventing accidental disasters. Above all it takes enormous patience training
users, listening to user feedback, answering questions and _never, ever_
criticizing when people make mistakes.

------
faitswulff
I wish they had breakdowns by age. I think it would be marginally better for
younger people, but probably not as good as one would hope.

------
bkgunby
I admit I still catch myself accidentally hitting the browser's back button on
a multi-page Ajax form without its own back button. Or having to fill out a
form again because, instead of opening a modal or a new tab, the current page
changes (e.g., TOS). I've come across countless UX developers who don't
consider these subtle details.

And this is only a small part of nuances that a typical user faces. I don't
care how beautiful or fancy your UX is. Familiarity is king in design, and if
you stray too much away from the current experience, I won't hesitate to say
that my toilet has better UX.

~~~
bagacrap
Ajax _can_ behave nicely with your browser's back button, but you're right
that it's impossible to tell if it will before you try.

------
foota
Interesting that Japan has both the highest level 3 percentage and the highest
can't use computer percentage.

~~~
unsignedint
Not very surprising actually. They have good chunk of people who are heavily
reliant on mobile devices and that predates smartphones. I have heard more
than few cases where university professors commenting about student's lack of
computer skill, to the extent that some of their student submit their essay
using their phone.

------
lacampbell
This is fantastic news. I am glad to hear I am in the upper echelons and
computing literacy - let alone programming literacy - has not caught on. My
skillset would be useless if everyone could do it.

------
jdosnhss
I found it funny that the researchers refrained from assigning a computer
skills "level zero" to avoid the negative connotation. To experienced computer
users zero is just the first number

~~~
grzm
I've heard the zero vs one indexing as offset vs position. The first element
has offset zero.

Edited to add relevant xkcd: [https://xkcd.com/163/](https://xkcd.com/163/)

------
mvindahl
Level 7: Rewrites browser software in Emacs LISP before proceeding

~~~
AmVess
Level 8: Writes driver software in HTML.

~~~
AstralStorm
Why would a smart person complicate their life with no gain?

(unless the goal is learning all the its about Lisp or web browsers)

~~~
base698
Blub.

[http://paulgraham.com/avg.html](http://paulgraham.com/avg.html)

~~~
mvindahl
I read this piece for the first time about four years ago. I've been
revisiting it at intervals ever since. As it happens, I had been assigned to a
Javascript project at that time after a decade of working with Java. I had
been initially dismissive of the "toy language" of Javascript but I also felt
that as I learned it, I grew inexplicably fond of it. The Graham essay helped
me put the puzzle pieces in their right places and realize that Java was
really a pretty clunky language and that Javascript was, in fact, superior.
Never went full LISP though -- I had tried Scheme in the past and failed to
wrap my head around it -- but it definitely made me respect the ideas behind
the language.

------
yoz-y
What is with the needlessly complex description of tasks?

> Tasks are based on well-defined problems involving the use of only one
> function within a generic interface to meet one explicit criterion without
> any categorical or inferential reasoning, or transforming of information.
> Few steps are required and no sub-goal has to be generated.

It reminds me of times when I was writing articles for journals and had to
find filler to reach the required arbitrary page count.

~~~
woogiewonka
My thoughts exactly. As UX authority, you'd think they at least write clear
descriptions.

------
AdamSC1
The report covers roughly 1 billion people if you take the working population
of the 33 countries involved.

At a sample of 215942 the margin of error is fractions of a percent.

But, what this doesn't account for is that in the original report
([http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-
matter_9789264...](http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-
matter_9789264258051-en)) you do see a significant variance in the
distribution of skills based on:

-Country

-Age

-Income

Example:

In Japan, only 4.3% of adults are at a "Level 1" where as in Indonesia it is
37.2% which is to be expected when Indonesia is the bottom of the ladder in
GDP Per Capita ([http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/educati...](http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/education/skills-matter/per-capita-gdp-
usd_9789264258051-graph7-en#page1)) and in literacy scores
([http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/educati...](http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-
Management/oecd/education/skills-matter/literacy-proficiency-by-educational-
attainment_9789264258051-graph3-en#page3)).

While this report says it takes the 'average cross the OECD countries' it's
not clear on which factors were weighted or adjusted.

The information isn't wrong - it's just worth taking it with a grain of salt
depending on how you are using the information. That said the US market for
example lines up very close to the average, which is still staggering.

------
flukus
I'm not surprised. Typically "computer skills" are taught as "click here, here
and here to edit a word document". I think going back to basics and teaching
people how to do things from the command line would improve literacy
dramatically, especially with the younger generation who have been shielded
from the concepts of "files" and "programs".

~~~
ghaff
Why _should_ the typical computer user need to understand concepts like files
and programs? That sounds akin to saying that before someone can drive a car
they should need to learn how to strip down an engine. There probably are
those who advocate that but they're in the minority

~~~
flukus
Because those are the primitives that make computers work. Interfaces change
like fashion but something like "saving a file" is something that was useful
30 years ago and now.

Stripping down the engine would be more akin to coding the programs
themselves. This is more akin to saying that before someone drives they should
know about the accelerator, brake and steering wheel, the basic tools that
they use to interact with the car.

~~~
SerLava
> This is more akin to saying that before someone drives they should know
> about the accelerator, brake and steering wheel, the basic tools

No, this is something in between, but an analogous system does not exist in
cars. If cars had trim, like airplanes, that might be analogous.

~~~
flukus
To follow the analogy further, it's both. We've never had a machine as general
purpose as computers are. I'd classify it as more like writing and mathematics
than any piece of technology. And with those we teach from the bottom up.

------
njharman
Some if this has nothing to do with computers or interfaces. A lot of people
couldn't do the find info across emails and schedule meeting whether the
inputs and ouputs were paper, people, whatever. The problem is they lack
ability, in shirt, to problem solve. Something we excel at we can't imagine
being hard for others. Being able to discern what the problem is, wgat are the
assets, what's the done condition, how to divide up and order problem, what
steps to take, what order to take them. How to focus. Curiosity, ability to
explore, trial and error. Just being able to formulate a test, determine
result of test, and fathom whether the result is applicable to your task.

Just so hard.

------
anotheryou
I think the labels are quite harsh. Level 1 can be quite functioning for
certain applications:

    
    
      - below level 1: can receive and reply to electronic communication (once told how)
      - level 1: can retrieve information from knowledge archives of all sorts. Can google alright.
      - level 2: can organize archives/folders/mail, can organize communications in a group, can find information in less obvious places and google quite well
      - level 3: has skills that go beyond what is currently needed in 90% of non IT-related jobs.
    

Stunning though is the ~20% that can't do the simplest task. I wonder if they
are capable of using an ATM.

------
gohrt
Neilsen Norman Group writes articles that convey important technical
information in very easy to understand language. Reading their writing makes
me feel smarter, and I think it's more than a feeling.

~~~
fuzzfactor
I'm not a web developer, I'm a web user but I have sometimes programmed
computers. Quite a bit of human-machine interface, where mistakes have an
extreme need to be avoided. For decades.

If I was going to do a website, I always thought I would want the kind of
thing that would make Neilsen proud. For decades.

------
Stratoscope
I think each of us computer experts should at least once in a while face a
technical situation that completely befuddles us. Maybe this way we can get a
sense of what it's like to be a normal "non-computer" person.

I'm not talking about the challenge of learning a new programming language or
framework. We know that will have its difficult spots. I don't even mean
chasing down the trickiest bug. That's what we were born and trained to do!

I mean something that you would think _should_ be simple and obvious, but
you're stuck, have no clue what to try next, and think the whole world must
just be broken.

This just happened to me. Night before last, my car's ESC (Electronic
Stability Control) light came on. I thought I must have bumped the ESC disable
button, but tapping it a few times did nothing.

A little while later, the Check Engine light came on to keep the ESC light
company. Uh-oh. I explained to my friend that it didn't mean we had to stop
_right now_ , unless that light started blinking. It didn't blink, and the
engine sounded fine.

Isn't it funny how a car has this one all-purpose light that could mean just
about anything, and the car knows which of those many things it actually is,
but it won't tell you?

Unless you're a mechanic. Or unless you're smart, like me, and had an OBD-II
device that comes with an app for your phone. Now I can just read the code
myself!

So I opened the app, tapped Connect, and there it was: Motorola Roadster 2.
Um, that's my speakerphone. No OBD-II?

I went to the website and read the manual for my OBD-II device and found my
mistake: I needed to push the Bluetooth pairing button on the device before I
could connect. So I pushed it, saw the blue light blinking, went back to the
app and tapped Connect once more. No sign of the OBD-II device, just the
speakerphone again!

Something was really messed up and I had no idea what it was. I'd connected to
the device before without any problem, but I'd also done a factory reset on
the phone since then, so whatever it was wasn't working any more. Rebooting
the phone didn't help, and turning the car ignition off and on a few times
didn't either. I gave up for the night (and the next day).

Finally today I got the courage to try again. First, of course, I tried all
the things I tried before, thinking that maybe this time they would work.

No such luck. Finally I got the idea of going to the Bluetooth menu on the
phone to see if I could find the OBD-II device that way.

You can guess the rest of the story: after I pushed the pairing button on the
device, it showed up in the Bluetooth menu and I paired the phone with it like
I'd done a long time ago before that factory reset. And then the OBD-II app
connected and showed me the error:

P0504 Brake Switch "A"/"B" Correlation

I looked that up online and found the good news: indeed this was not an engine
problem but a brake switch problem that also disables ESC. And the bad news:
I'd been driving around with _no brake lights_ and thought I had an engine
problem instead.

It was only sheer luck that I happened to think of checking the Bluetooth
menu. When the OBD-II program showed me the list of available devices (only
the Motorola speakerphone), it didn't say anything about what to do if my OBD-
II device didn't show up in the list. And when I found their manual online it
didn't offer any clue either.

I was just supposed to "know" that I should go to the Bluetooth menu before
trying to use the app.

I still tend to think of myself as some kind of computer expert (in fact many
of you have used code I wrote), but I'm grateful for this experience - it
taught me to have a bit more sympathy when people get so frustrated with their
computers and devices.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Stuff like that happens all the time. Totally stumped by something because the
path forward simply doesn't occur to me.

Computer technologists differ from 'everybody else' in that, they keep trying
until they succeed. In other words, you don't lose until you give up. In fact
as a consultant its really my job to struggle through issues to the
conclusion. My critical value is that they can waste my time with stuff like
that instead of their own employees.

------
gwbas1c
I sometimes act like a "level 1" user when dealing with applications that I
will only use once or twice.

Why spend hours trying to re-learn how to do something very basic and simple?
I have better things to do with my time, even though I might be capable of
using a complicated application.

------
kelukelugames
I worked at Redfin building tools for real estate agents and my ex was at
Expedia doing tools for call center employees. Most of them don't even know
about multiple tabs. We are in our little bubble about tech competency.

------
Glyptodon
I mildly interested in how the distributions break down by age cohort.

------
whataretensors
These numbers are actually shocking. I wonder what the statistics are on level
4 and above, assuming level 4 is programming.

------
swiley
This actually sounds like a measure of reading comprehension and reasoning
skills.

------
zhte415
Salient tl;dr

> The main point I want to make is that you, dear reader, are almost certainly
> in the top category of computer skills, level 3. In the United States, only
> 5% of the population has these high computer skills. In Australia and the UK
> 6% are at this level; in Canada and across Northern Europe the number
> increases to 7%; Singapore and Japan are even better with a level-3
> percentage of 8%.

> Overall, people with strong technology skills make up a 5–8% sliver of their
> country’s population, whatever rich country they may be coming from.

> You can do it; 92%–95% of the population can’t.

A lot of smart people price themselves too low because they're simply being
kind. I'm one of these. It is worth remembering that, as a HN reader, self-
selected for such content and community, you may also be too kind.

~~~
thinkdoge
I hope in a decade, distribution shifts greatly to more computer literacy.. I
get so tilted just thinking about things like... oh why browsers dont have
regex search by default... it's because majority of people don't know regex.

~~~
morecoffee
Not to be morbid, but it definitely will. Young people today will be literate,
and the older people will no long be part of the population.

~~~
magila
I'm not so sure the next generation is going to be significantly more computer
literate. With the trend towards curated devices (read: smart phones and
tablets) general purpose computer skills are being pushed back into the niche
they used to occupy in decades past.

~~~
thesimpsons1022
yeah. my teenage cousin has no knowledge about computers other than using them
to play Minecraft and watch Netflix. even his typing skills are poor.

~~~
Warp__
However, in the future he may want to install/create mods for Minecraft, which
would start him on the path for further skills.

------
techjuice
Appears the link has changed to: [https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-
skill-levels/](https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/)

Derived from: [http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-
matter_9789264...](http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/skills-
matter_9789264258051-en)

~~~
hug
Of course it doesn't help that I'm silly and left a bracket on the end of the
URL and can't change it.

~~~
qntmfred
you've been demoted to Level 2.

------
luckydata
Serious question: why does anyone still listens to this hack?

The majority of his results are either questionable or completely obvious, and
he's clearly not very good at accounting for his own biases. Some of his work
has set back the field of design quite a bit - like the nonsense about users
not reading on the internet that has transformed itself into an unkillable
monster.

p.s.: if you're coming to say "but dude, users really don't read on the
internet" then reflect on the irony of doing that in a discussion forum.

~~~
peterwwillis
I'm blind, you insensitive clod!

Seriously though: you provide no evidence or reference, so this comment is
kind of pointless.

~~~
flukus
> I'm blind, you insensitive clod!

Are we bringing this back?

~~~
jonathankoren
Only if we get enough to make beowulf cluster of old memes.

