

Vastrm is the Warby Parker for shirts - jontang
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/vastrm-is-the-warby-parker-for-shirts-gxEEVGv8THOP61ttomrGaQ.html

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robertnealan
@jontang - First off I'll be the first positive voice in that there's quite
possibly a niche of people crazy enough to pay $90+ for a polo shirt. That
niche isn't likely going to be myself or in general the people here on HN, but
it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Regarding all the criticism/feedback that people are providing here - take it
to heart. No, really - TAKE IT TO HEART. Reading through the list of comments
it seems like everyone is providing similar criticisms (specifically that
they'd never pay that much for a shirt and that they don't like the
association with Warby Parker). While it's only natural to try to defend your
position, I'd say really try to dig in and ask, "Is there a reason everyone is
saying the same things or are they just misunderstanding my business?" If the
latter, realize that this isn't a "People just don't understand us" issue like
some type of angsty teenager, it's a flaw in how Vastrm is marketing itself
and how potential customers see the potential benefit. This isn't something to
be taken lightly and dismissed, this is something that has killed countless
great businesses.

Everything aside - I don't really like polo shirts to begin with, but I wish
you the best of luck.

~~~
robertnealan
Also, looking at the actual content on your front page I'm somewhat lost.

Slide 1/2 - Both slides push "New Designer Collections". What does that even
mean? If Vastrm is positioning itself as high quality custom polos then
everything on the site should speak to that level of quality and be
recognizable as "designerware" by the Vastrm brand, not just because you say
it's part of a designer collection."

Slide 3 - It's a decent idea in that it pushes something that I'm going to
assume is unique about your brand (the woven collar), but I still have no idea
what that means or how it's going to benefit me.

Slide 4 - vCool fabric? I don't particularly care that my shirt has "moisture
wicking" fabric, I care that it's high quality, comfortable, and is going to
help me look damn good.

Slide 5 - This is your entire business! Why in the hell is it the last slide?
Less than 10% of people will ever stick around to see the last slide and it's
the most important one you've got. The imagery itself leaves something to be
desired, but designing my own shirt is one of the biggest selling point for
Vastrm.

The thirds columns below are decent but aren't that convincing (first one is
the best of the bunch but needs to be shown on an actual model showing how
damn good of a fit it really is). What are these details that make it a luxury
shirt? Why is the call to action on the video "Learn More" instead of "Watch
the Video" or something more specific to its content?

The "Home Try On Program" block is again one of the most important parts of
your business (it's risk free! Try it on and send what you don't like back!),
and it's at the bottom of the page. Sell this idea!

Also, your 100 years of history looks great! This tells me your company has a
story, a history. This is the type of BS that people love to know is there
(even if they dont' bother reading the page) - that you're not some big chain
retailer but a small business with a family history that's sticking it to "The
Man".

The actual product grid pages look decent, but the single product pages are
overwhelming me with an accordion of options. I understand the idea is
allowing people to customize their shirt, but I'd have to click at least 20
different times to open/select each option and then add the product to cart.

Make it responsive!

Obligatory Plug - I'm an SF based web designer/front-end developer with
experience doing responsive Magento stores for clients.

~~~
jontang
You make great points. We should talk.

~~~
robertnealan
Feel free to email me at rob@houseofatomi.com

------
krschultz
The only correlation I see is that the polos are the same price as Warby
Parker's eyeglasses. In my mind, Warby Parker saves me a bunch of money over
the alternatives. This is not the same buisness model.

~~~
jontang
The comparison to Warby Parker was more in terms of customer engagement model
vis a vis the home try on program. Cost structure, supply chain, mfr, and the
competitive nature of our businesses are quite different, as you point out.

~~~
rhizome
In light of that, isn't Zappos a more apt comparison?

~~~
jontang
Somewhat, but our customers aren't buying an off the rack shirt here. We are
sending sizing templates for people to try on. They then go back to our site
to determine any adjustments to their sizing profile (adding length to shirt
or shortening a sleeve, or tapering the waist, etc). They send the try on
shirts back to us and we then go ahead and make a one of kind size and fit for
that customer based on their unique body type. make sense?

------
yapcguy
Yawn.

Plenty of companies already sell custom shirts online. What's the big deal
about Vastrm? What's revolutionary?

Also, what's the big deal about Warby Parker? Just slick marketing and
creation of a brand, but the same Chinese factories as used by CHEAP-GLASSES-
FRAMES-DOT-COM.

EDIT:

Nice, a downvote after just a few seconds. Look, just because Vastrm is a
YCombinator company doesn't mean it gets a free ride.

The interviewer asks why Vastrm is special and after some mumbling about an
iPhone app and custom algorithms, the CEO admits that it all comes down to
letting the user pick a couple of shirts and returning the ones that don't
fit. Wow, why didn't anyone think of that before?!

There is nothing special about Vastrm. They are using celebrity endorsements
like Will Smith to pimp their brand but at the end of the day the shirt is
still made in a sweat-shop in Thailand. Instead of paying Vastrm $115 for each
polo shirt, you're better off buying a plane ticket to Bangkok so you can
enjoy a nice holiday whilst getting your custom suit, shirt and shoes made for
a few bucks.

~~~
jontang
Most custom shirt companies out there only provide custom dress shirts and
suiting. We are looking at going after the sportswear category. No one, we
know, as of yet, has set up a supply chain and factory that can produce a
quantity of one unit at a time without costing a fortune. The factories we use
are part of a consortium that consults with the US gov't on setting up both
labor friendly mfr abroad as well as clean mfr and eco friendly mfr processes.
It's not a sweat shop. Sorry to disappoint. Also, this was not a free ride. We
spent 2.5 years prior to YC setting up supply chain, factory, product
development and a host of other logistical processes to be able to deliver
quality and efficient production.

~~~
larrys
Didn't realize you were the founder.

In addition to my comments on your company name you should consider including
a label of sorts somewhere on your shirt as a branding element (needs to be
visible even if it hangs from the front or the tail). It doesn't have to be
ala Polo or Tommy (over the chest) but there should be something to let people
know that the product is yours.

Also I'm sure you have researched this but my gut says $100 is not the same as
$98 in terms of consumer perception.

~~~
biot
Please, no labels. Or if there are visible labels (beyond something small,
tasteful, and discreet) have an option to remove them. I'd even pay a little
extra for that option.

------
sritch
This is like Zappos or a ton of other companies that offer free return
shipping.. very little correlation to Warby Parker as mentioned.

~~~
jontang
Our customers aren't buying an off the rack shirt here. We are sending sizing
templates for people to try on. They then go back to our site to determine any
adjustments to their sizing profile (adding length to shirt or shortening a
sleeve, or tapering the waist, etc). We then go ahead and make a one of kind
size and fit for that customer based on their unique body type.

~~~
sritch
Warby Parker's value proposition isn't in a custom product, it's in having a
product free of massive markup. Not sure where you are see the relationship
between the two.

------
danpalmer
Being in the UK I haven't had the chance to use Warby Parker, but I have used
"Glasses Online" which is our equivalent from what I've heard (home try-on,
good range, very good prices).

Looking at Vastrm, apart from the home try-on it doesn't appear to be the same
thing at all? The whole point (I thought) of the glasses retailers is getting
great quality at realistic prices rather than prices that have been over
inflated by the glasses monopoly that exists.

Vastrm on the other hand sells what look like good quality clothes at the same
massively inflated fashion prices that other retailers sell at. $95 for a polo
shirt? I'd expect more like $35 as a 'surprising' price.

TLDR; I was quoted £140 ($220) for a pair of glasses, I went to the UK
equivalent of Warby Parker and got nicer ones for £60... and they were 'buy
one get one free', so essentially £30 a pair. That's the sort of 'surprise'
that Vastrm needs to create, and $95 polo shirts aren't going to do that.

~~~
jontang
Our value is not being a low cost leader. Our value is in getting people into
shirts that fit perfectly. We hope to get our pricing down as we find
efficiencies in the mfr and supply chain process. We are making one unit at a
time. Not and easy problem to solve on the back end nor a cheap solution. But
we are still on par with brands like Ralph Lauren, Hugo Boss, Fred Perry,
Sunspel... And are less expensive than Armani, Varvatos, Zegna, etc...

~~~
danpalmer
Ok, fair enough if that's the market you're going for, but I don't consider it
to be the same market as Warby Parker and equivalents as they emphasise the
price as being an important factor.

~~~
jontang
Agreed.

------
rdl
Another interesting market for bespoke vs made-to-measure vs off the rack
might be concealed carry. It is more of an issue for belts, and then kind of a
toss up for pants and shirts. Unless you just go with skin tight clothing, it
can be done with regular clothing now, but ccw and undercover people will
spend a lot of money. It is a huge issue for women, though. (I know I'd
probably never spend $80 on a regular belt, but I bought 3 without a second
thought as gun belts, and I've bought $300 jackets for ccw or
technical/outdoor use but unless it is a suit from ww chan, wouldn't spend it
on regular clothing.)

People with physical deformities (what is a more polite way to say this?)
could also be a market.

~~~
jontang
Yes, we have been approached by folks with physical disabilities that need
custom solutions. We have been looking into that.

~~~
rdl
Another market where this might be awesome is corporate gifts. I also wouldn't
buy a $115 polo shirt for myself, but I probably would consider it as a gift
(as long as I could put my branding or message on the gift certificate, and
ideally in the packaging of the actual shirt.)

~~~
jontang
Great point. And yes, we have been building our corporate business and
decorating shirts with corporate logos.

------
larrys
I'm not an expert on Warby Parker but I don't see the connection.

Warby Parker took advantages of a business (eye glasses) which had greatly
inflated prices and a few suppliers controlling the market. The shirt business
isn't the same - there is plenty of competition, price points, and
availability of product.

I won't make a guess on how good the vastrm idea is but it's no warby parker.

~~~
jontang
see above response...

~~~
larrys
First impressions count. And as they say in law calling it close to Warby
Parker "doesn't pass the smell test".

Your points are valid (and I will take them as correct).

But when someone sees a headline that says "the Warby Parker of" they are
going to think many different things and that's at least what I thought.

Clothing is sold everywhere eyeglasses are not. Custom clothing is nothing new
what Warby did essentially was a new idea.

Note also that eyeglasses have been around forever and are used by a nice
percentage of the population because if you need glasses and don't wear
contact lenses you need glasses.

Polo shirts are not the same (title says "custom polo shirts") and I'm not
even seeing that they sell polos for women. And how many men are "metro"
enough that they even care about getting customer polo shirts? There is a big
difference between men's fashion and women's fashion to begin with.

~~~
jontang
Great points here. Thanks for your insight. We will continue to learn from all
these comments. re: men not caring about fitted polo shirts: we think the
market here is fairly large. Mass merchandised clothing today only comes in 4
- 5 sizes (S, M, L, XL,etc...) but our bodies are all different shapes and
sizes. So that size M that Jcrew or Ralph Lauren sells will only fit a sub-
segment of the population. Everyone else is compromising on fit. If you want a
better fitting shirt, come to us. If your willing to shop around for brands
that fit your body type or if you don't care about fit, that is fine too. We
are here to simply offer more choice for consumers.

------
d_theorist
I wish that sites like this would make it obvious (or easy to find out) what
geographical area they serve without my having to work my way through a
checkout process to figure it out.

~~~
jontang
apologies for this. We will fix this. We just started shipping to Australia,
UK, Canada, France, Germany and Japan. More countries to come as we set up
logistics in those countries.

------
dadro
I don't see the connection either. Warby Parker provides an experience that
differs from their competition (luxottica) and happens to be significantly
cheaper. How is Vastrm any different than a company like BlankLabel?

~~~
jontang
blank label makes only dress shirts and does not offer any sort of home try on
program. We are big fans of Fan Bi and co.

re: a different experience. We are sort the anti-Gap. At the Gap, one size
fits all. With us, we will fit the shirt to your body type and not force you
into a size that was made for the masses.

------
bryanh
Recently got a Vastrm hoodie and it is really nice. It certainly feels great
and fits great. I'll likely wear it a ton, not sure why there is such
negativity in this thread.

~~~
devindotcom
The quality of the shirt doesn't determine the quality of the business, or the
quality of the comparison in the headline.

~~~
larrys
I think that he's actually joking. Because I'm not seeing that vastrm sells
any hoodies.

~~~
jontang
We have been testing out hoodies as a follow on product through our retail
channels as well as through a few crowd funding sites.

------
biot
I added a polo shirt to the cart and it showed up as £115.00, which is about
$180 USD. Is this a currency typo?

~~~
jontang
That $115 is in dollars. We only support USD at this point. Our site should
not convert.

~~~
biot
Here's what I see: [http://imgur.com/KwNaq5a](http://imgur.com/KwNaq5a)

~~~
jontang
thanks for taking the time to show us that. You would be charged in US $. We
will look into this asap.

------
jonah
I said it last time they where discussed here but that name scares my manhood.
:(

------
7Figures2Commas
I suppose I'm Vastrm's target customer. I love polos and have a closet full of
$100+ polos to prove it.

This said, I'm not really drawn to the offering:

1\. I personally don't have a problem with fit. Many brands already offer
different options (i.e. classic, slim, ultra-slim) and I'd find it hard to
believe that there is a large number of individuals in the target market who
can't find a brand that offers a satisfactory fit. If you're interested in
wearing attractive, comfortable clothing, identifying the brands and fits that
you like really isn't a big deal. And once you've done this, you generally
don't need to revisit.

2\. This isn't a suit. I have little interest in spending time designing a
polo or seeking a more "perfect" fit for casualwear. Vastrm seems far less
efficient than "take a trip to the mall."

3\. I wouldn't consider myself a label snob, but the label and visible
branding that often accompanies it is always reasonably going to be a part of
the value proposition when it comes to clothing.

~~~
jontang
Give us a shot to get you perfectly fitted. We'll make the first shirt for you
for free. send us an email at warriors@vastrm.com

------
larrys
Since naming is my thing I will add that the choice of vastrm as a name is
horrible.

An invented word is fine but it should either relate to the product or at
least be memorable and easy to pass along by mention. Especially for a
consumer product which is marketed in part on a web site.

I don't know how to pronounce "vastrm" is it "vastrem" or "vastrim" or? ...
and even if I did I'd have to spell it for someone since it's not close to
being a word. It's a hack essentially.

Once again, they are, after all, selling to consumers.

~~~
rdl
vastrm makes me think of "rm *", actually. Which would be an awesome name for
a document retention/destruction company.

~~~
larrys
Not only that but it made me think of "vasectomy" oddly enough.

Document destruction/retention: "rm"

but document retention "mv".

That's a great business by the way (destruction and document scanning).
Destruction much easier though.

