
“Learning How to Learn,” the most popular course on Coursera - hvo
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/04/education/edlife/learning-how-to-learn-barbara-oakley.html?hpw&rref=education&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
======
sp527
Took the course. A lot of it is cruft and motivation for the underlying core
ideas. The techniques suggested are things many people are already familiar
with: recall, deliberate practice, interleaving, spaced repetition,
Einstellung, Pomodoro, Feynman Method, Cornell notes or similar (to force
recall), exercise regularly, sleep well, focus on concepts not facts
(chunking), etc. A composite of these dramatically enhances the learning
process.

I can post some of the notes I took on the course if anyone is genuinely
curious. The key premise of the course is that the brute force approach people
usually take to learning is highly inefficient and ultimately ineffective
(you'll forget).

EDIT: Notes [https://pastebin.com/JNbGxvpQ](https://pastebin.com/JNbGxvpQ)

~~~
nlawalker
_> > A lot of it is cruft and motivation for the underlying core ideas._

Someone else made the exact same remark about Cal Newport's book "Deep Work"
earlier this week in another thread.

I find this to be true about a lot of books/courses/content of a "self-help"
nature that are designed to be practical and applicable - the real helpful
stuff boiled down to its essence could fit in a tri-fold pamphlet (or a
350-line pastebin), but you can't make money selling a tri-fold pamphlet, so
the content gets augmented with tons of case studies and variations on
variations on variations of the core ideas to justify 200 pages or a multi-
week course.

I stopped buying these kinds of books. Every one turned into "thumb to about
page 60 to skip the intro/life story/motivating metaphor, read a few pages,
and skim the beginning of each chapter after that."

~~~
sp527
Agreed. There's a serious problem of information density in content these
days. Most publisher-driven content is almost intentionally sparse. It takes
tremendous expertise to weld information with context in a way that doesn't
feel hollow and commercial.

Two books I've come across recently that do well to circumvent that problem:
Sapiens by Yuval Harari and Designing Data-Intensive Applications by Martin
Kleppmann. In both cases, you get a sense of the author distilling a
lifetime's worth of knowledge and expertise into a form that seems hopelessly
condensed, and in fact provokes you into further study. That's the mark of
excellent exposition in my opinion.

~~~
CuriouslyC
The problem of low information density isn't new. Most of the "classics" of
western literature have the same problem. We're just more attuned to it now
because we've been trained by internet articles to expect an idea to be
introduced, explored and concluded in 1000-2000 words. Beyond that, these days
many people won't even bother with that if there isn't a quick hook or a TL;DR
that sucks them into reading further.

~~~
ashark
> The problem of low information density isn't new. Most of the "classics" of
> western literature have the same problem.

I would submit that you may not be tuned into the value in them, if you think
that. Maybe it's true of some, but most are just an acquired taste of the same
sort as, say, the freer-form varieties of jazz, or classical music. It takes
some work and some experience before you get what they're doing, before you
understand their rhythms, learn to recognize when they're telling you to pay
attention (and to what, which may not be obvious at first), when _and how_
they're simply _playing_ and what about the particular play they're engaging
in makes it remarkable and worthwhile, and so on.

There's a sensitivity required for much (not all) of the body of classic
literature that most people have to work to develop before they really get it,
and lots of allusions that have the chicken/egg problem of requiring you
already to be familiar with a lot of literature before they start to land with
any frequency—again, same as some genres of music, like classical and jazz
again, hip hop especially, others too, but usually not as much as those. Just
because you can read doesn't mean you _get_ literature, just like being able
to see doesn't mean you _get_ fine art, though in either case you might still
enjoy at least some of it, and you might still develop strong opinions about
the works you don't enjoy.

Movies and TV are similar. You're not born recognizing good film-making,
understanding _why_ it's good, how the way the camera moved in that shot
actually _contributed meaning_ rather than just being an artifact of the
medium, how that shot was a reference to some DW Griffith movie and what
purpose that might have, how that shot is weak and works against the tone or
action of the scene in a way that makes it bad, and so on. Most people who
watch and enjoy film never bother to develop an actual understanding of it,
but that doesn't mean the things that go over their heads are bad.

That's just how all art is, really. Sure there's some posturing and BS mixed
in with it all, but you in fact do have to put some serious hours and effort
into arts to get the most out of them that you can—even just on a critical or
enjoyment or character/intellect/empathy-building level, not even getting into
_making_ art—and very probably by the time you've done that a bunch of things
that seemed like worthless overrated crap when you started won't seem that way
anymore.

~~~
CuriouslyC
I've spent a lot of time digging through the major works of post enlightenment
philosophers. Even fairly "concise" (by the standards of the day) writers like
Hume, Nietzsche and Bertrand Russell belabor points far beyond what was
necessary for me to apprehend their meaning.

I'm of the opinion that if you have to be "trained" to find a work
aesthetically appealing, it isn't inherently aesthetic. By analogy, some women
find pretend rape and pain sexually gratifying, but I don't think anyone would
argue those acts are inherently erotic.

~~~
adamsea
Minus the weird and out-of-place analogy about sexual role playing and bdsm,
this kinda sounds like a child talking about the bitter taste of coffee or
beer, when soda is so much sweeter.

~~~
CuriouslyC
The real child is the person who cultivates "sophisticated" preferences to try
and elevate themselves above others. A child that is genuine is ironically
being far more emotionally mature.

------
cpsempek
I find this interesting for two reasons.

I think I recall that not too long ago, the most popular course on coursera
was Ng's ML course. It is ironic that people are now more interested in
teaching oneself how to learn versus a machine. This change could be
attributed to other reasons like change in user demographics, or, market
saturation, so that naturally popular courses will change once a large
majority moves from one to the next. But I want to believe there is a more
interesting phenomenon occurring where reading about abstract notions of
learning causes a person to question how they themselves learn, and if the
same abstract concepts apply. This is more a whimsical thought, than a serious
one.

The second reason this is interesting is it could be surfacing a real issue
with the way we have become accustomed to ingesting data. Could it be that we
are becoming aware and fearful that the long term effects of suckling the
internet's spout of instant gratification is causing serious harm to our
ability to "actually learn".

Neither may be the case, but it seems like there is something interesting
going on here.

~~~
sien
It is the most popular course on Coursera because it's ~3 hours of lectures
and ~3 hours of study and it seems to be advertised for everyone who logs on
to Coursera.

Andrew Ng's Course is 11 weeks and it's about ~5 hours a week and on top of
that you'd really want to be quite able at High School Maths and have some
programming background.

~~~
cpsempek
Easiness of the course is could be a big factor in it's popularity. A simpler
explanation :).

------
tonyhb
Dr Oakley also wrote "A Mind for Numbers", which is essentially this course in
text form. The book is great as a a basis for the theory of learning, and
dives into the same content (diffuse vs focused thinking, skimming chapters
before reading etc.).

I find having a text reference with dedicated time makes me learn more, so if
you're interested in the course you'd probably also love the book.

~~~
ukyrgf
Ah! I bought this book and loved it, but couldn't remember how on earth it got
recommended to me. Now I recall reading up on this course and deciding to try
the book instead (video courses tend to waste too much time saying what you're
about to learn, barely expanding on it, and then reviewing what you just
learned).

------
jkscm
This is a pretty good summary of the core concepts:
[http://www.math.toronto.edu/nhoell/10rules-of-
studying.pdf](http://www.math.toronto.edu/nhoell/10rules-of-studying.pdf)

------
HumbleGamer
This course revolutionized my views on learning. After taking it and applying
the suggested techniques I've seen an amazing increase not just in my
competence but my confidence. It left me feeling empowered. I was almost a bit
sad when I reached the end.

~~~
ncfausti
This. I learned that it's ok to feel dumb when learning difficult ideas, and
to take a break, let your mind do some diffuse thinking, and come back to it.

------
baron816
CrashCourse has a study skills course:
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNcAJRf3bE1...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNcAJRf3bE1IJU6nMfHj86W)

It's geared more toward a younger crowd, but it's still pretty good, at least
so far.

~~~
fgandiya
The guy hosting that course (Tom Frank) runs a really good blog,
collegeinfogeek.com which despite being college focused has great
motivational/discipline tips.

------
shahahmed
Great summary on the course from reddit:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GetMotivated/comments/5950tm/text_i...](https://www.reddit.com/r/GetMotivated/comments/5950tm/text_i_just_finished_the_online_coursera_course/)

------
tchaffee
I'll report in too. I took the course and thought it was excellent. I love
learning and have been learning new things for decades and thought my
techniques were pretty good. I'm a very fast learner. The course helped me
more than I was expecting and my learning speed and ability to memorize
noticeably improved. Especially with the foreign language I'm studying. And
the theories around how the brain works were interesting. And it's a pretty
short course.

------
maxwellfoley
Is this any good? I've had it in my list of things to check out for a while
but I suspect it might just be TED-talk pop-psych voodoo stuff.

~~~
davidgrenier
This is a zero-bullshit course. I completed it in about a week an a half
(definitely not a lot of work) and it's drastically changed the way I look at
learning and my perspective about the difficulty of earning new skills.

My pace on reading programming books for instance has gone down such that it
takes about 2-3 times it would normally take to go through the material,
however the difference is unmistakable with respect to how much I know the
material. It took me 2-3 years of additional work experience to be at a
comparable level in other topics.

~~~
b_emery
So you read through the books more slowly, practicing, and recalling the
material? Can you elaborate on your process now?

~~~
davidgrenier
I work several subjects in parallel (three books currently). I go through each
chapter twice. Once to understand the material then moving on to another book.

When I come back to the former book I go through the chapter again creating
Anki cards for anything notable. The sheer amount of material I notice I had
completely forgotten on the second reading is astounding.

I go through the Anki cards daily, in the morning I cover the material created
from two of my books. In the evening I go through the third book (which I deem
more valuable in a deep sense/abstract).

I have yet to have solid a strategy on chunk-building (as the course pushes
you to do), however I can still see some bigger units emerge with time.

~~~
jamestimmins
Can you elaborate on why it's valuable to go through different books in
parallel? My goal has always been to do one thing at a time, so the idea that
the opposite if beneficial is interesting.

~~~
davidgrenier
The course emphasizes how memory works, you would think that to remember
things you have to write the information well-enough in it so it sticks. But
in reality, the information has been there the first time around the issue for
the brain is finding the information like locating a product in a large
warehouse.

It is the process of recall that makes things stick to memory as opposed to
repeated memorization. Working on several subjects at a time spaces out
sessions and prevents the illusion that you have access to the knowledge you
worked for when in fact you don't.

~~~
jamestimmins
Very interesting. Thanks for the info. I honestly haven't given much thought
to how much I recall; I figured that I remembered what I remembered and that
was that. Perhaps that should receive more attention.

------
Yahivin
Here's a great playlist featuring Richard Hamming with a CS focus on a similar
topic:
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2FF649D0C4407B30)

------
HateInAPuddle
Am I the only one who thinks this is a cynical ploy to tap into the anxieties
people have about not being successful?

~~~
tchaffee
I took the course. I love learning and have been learning new things for
decades and thought my techniques were pretty good. I'm a very fast learner.
The course helped me more than I was expecting and my learning speed and
ability to memorize noticeably improved. Especially with the foreign language
I'm studying. And the theories around how the brain works were interesting.
You're probably being a little cynical. ;-)

~~~
truth_sentinell
What's that foreign language and how do you study it? (If I might ask)

------
sremani
Quite an awesome course. I highly recommend it. In a day and age, we feel
outdated by minute, sets right perspective and gives a good system for
knowledge worker of any domain.

------
abhip
I took the course as well and wrote a post about applying the lessons learned
as a developer: [https://medium.com/learn-love-code/learnings-from-
learning-h...](https://medium.com/learn-love-code/learnings-from-learning-how-
to-learn-19d149920dc4)

Feedback welcome! Would love to learn what other techniques devs use to learn
and level up

------
baby
I haven't followed a course on Coursera since the first iteration of Crypto I.
I heard that it became really bad, asking you to pay for a lot of courses.

~~~
leggomylibro
You heard right, it is really bad. REALLY bad. They don't even audit the
courses they sell to see if they work. I've seen blatantly missing material,
completely bricked dev environments, assignments with rubrics that don't match
up with their grading criteria, repositories with several errors in code
marked, 'DO NOT EDIT', the list goes on.

Rough stuff. Look elsewhere for online courses. Coursera is all about pushing
sales, not learning.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
I suppose it depends on the course. I have really fond memories of the
"Chinese for Beginners" and "More Chinese for Beginners" courses from Peking
university I took on Coursera. They managed to engage me, I really enjoyed the
teaching style and I learned a lot in relation to the time spent, it was
probably the most efficient Chinese learning method I've taken.

Then I went into a course in edX and the website was way better, the platform
was miles ahead, the forums were better, the video player was amazing with the
ability to change video speed and add subtitles, etc... but I dropped out in
like two weeks!

Now this post has motivated me to look again in Coursera and there are two
specializations for Chinese that didn't exist before, one from Peking
University (with different teachers to the one I remember) and another from
Shanghai Jiao Tong... I'm going to choose one and give it a try :)

------
cJ0th
Can anyone of you report any long term benefits from these kind of courses?
Personally, I think those classes (haven't looked into the coursera one) only
present obvious stuff.

I've once worked through "Make it stick", a book that is often recommended
when it comes to learning. What I've found is that there is nothing wrong with
the content but it did not really help.

I imagine that most people who struggle with learning deal with some kind of
psychological issues that need to get addressed. They need to learn how to
deal with stuff like frustration, worries, perfectionism or self esteem.

~~~
eighthnate
> Can anyone of you report any long term benefits from these kind of courses?

None. It's like all self help books or "learning to read" books or etc. The
only thing it does is make you feel like you are accomplishing something and
actually "learning". But you are just wasting time.

The title is even self-defeating. "Learning how to learn". How can you learn
to learn without already knowing how to learn in the first place.

In order for the class to be useful to you, you would have to already known
how to learn to learn the material.

Ultimately, those truly motivated would have gone on to learn what they wanted
regardless of this course. And those unmotivated will not go on to learn
regardless of this course.

~~~
TheCowboy
This is completely antagonistic, and close-minded, without providing evidence.
The course is by people who have studied these things and back up the methods
with research (evidence).

The goal is long-term retention and learning. The course addresses bad habits
that people use for learning that don't accomplish this goal, and suggests
better methods.

I haven't taken the course but I'm familiar with some of the methods, such as
spaced-repetition. Spaced-repetition hasn't falsely "made me feel like I am
accomplishing something" and I've been surprised with the results over time.
There is a body of research and evidence showing positive results.

> How can you learn to learn without already knowing how to learn in the first
> place.

This might feel like a clever comment but it's pedantic and doesn't contribute
to the discussion. Most people have some minimal capacity to learn new things,
and can also improve how they learn.

------
CaRDiaK
Took the course, loved it. Bought the book, loved it. Encouraged my partner to
check it out, she stuck through it. 3 years later she's about to graduate from
college with her basic counselling education and experience behind her where
she hit top of the class. She's about to set out on her own. This course was a
massive driver and I'm not sure she'd have gone this way this quickly without
it.

------
Scarbutt
For those who read her book and did the course, is there anything in the
course that isn't covered by the book? what's the advantage of the course over
the book?

As a side note, I have found that the most powerful technique for me is
recalling.

~~~
fullmoon
Which of her books are you referring to?

~~~
Scarbutt
A mind for numbers.

------
roceasta
Fantastic that resources like this now exist. In some ways it seems to be
reminding us about how we _used_ to learn. Children spontaneously go back
again and again to things that delight them (spaced repetition) and they
switch activities when bored (Pomodoro). Unfortunately, perhaps as a result of
schooling, or other hard knocks, the spontaneous impulse gets lost. Adults
suffer from mixed motivations and seem to be fairly clueless about what they
find genuinely interesting. It becomes difficult to approach topics playfully.

~~~
sp527
Adults are forced to be much more pragmatic and less volatile. Plus, most of
us suffer from time scarcity. There's a specific pivot point in life wherein
you shift from primarily a learner to primarily a producer and I think the
shift in how we approach knowledge and our own interests is the unfortunate
baggage of that transition.

------
serkanh
I highly recommend this course. One thing i learned and have been practicing
was how useful was memorization and spaced repetition practice of things i
would like learn and understand.

------
diegof79
There is a book from the 80s with the same name "Learning How to Learn" by
Gowin & Novak. The book was very influential to the UX field. Concept Maps
-the technique presented in the book- is used a lot to understand user mental
models. The book is 80% discussion about how to apply the technique in a
classroom... 20% explaining the technique, but anyways it's worth the read.

Edit: small correction, according to google the book was published in 1984

~~~
open_bear
There is a modern book called "Make It Stick: The Science of Successful
Learning" by Peter C. Brown that I quite liked.

------
Aron
I find that learning how to learning how to learning how to learn is a good
way to spend my time when I don't actually want to accomplish anything.

------
hkon
I love to learn how to learn. Using what I learnt to learn stuff is hard, so I
don't do it.

------
misiti3780
Interesting article, personally I think this is more useful:
[https://www.supermemo.com/en/articles/20rules](https://www.supermemo.com/en/articles/20rules)

------
cooervo
I took this course it is wonderful and good. Also read her book.

I now always try to skim the index of a book or chapter before reading it.
Also try to study in smaller sessions, every day, instead of cramming a ton of
info in just one day.

------
erikb
I haven't done that course but I have to agree. Learning how to learn is
vastly important and really hard to do on your own, because the requirement is
the same as the result.

------
mypath
I have heard that the way it is presented is very dry. I have read a summary
on reddit and I think it is good, but I just don't have the time to spend on
it.

------
Sinidir
Which i neatly tagged away in my bookmarks feeling good about envisioning
taking it some day in the future. :) :(

------
zafka
This reminds me of a book I read years ago: Learning How to Learn by Idries
Shah

It was an interesting look at Sufi thought.

------
lettergram
Wasn't this the course also provided by the teaching company?

------
deepnotderp
I saw the title and initially thought this was about AutoML.

------
weishigoname
took the course, I think it is pretty good, it follow the rhythm our brain to
remember something.

------
aeorgnoieang
The very first sentence:

> The studio for what is arguably the world’s most successful online course is
> tucked into a corner of Barb and Phil Oakley’s basement, a converted TV room
> that smells faintly of cat urine.

I feel embarrassed on the Oakley's behalf. But I'm not a cat owner so maybe a
room in one's home smelling (however faintly) of cat urine isn't particularly
embarrassing.

Am I unreasonable in thinking that the author is an asshole?

~~~
pavanred
To me that sentence reads as a factual description devoid of judgement.

EDIT: I am surprised so many feel strongly about this and it didn't strike to
me as insensitive at all. Just makes me realize that being sensitive to others
is quite hard, specially while writing for platforms with such diverse set of
users. How would one know? :)

~~~
stinkytaco
You're right, but it's a totally irrelevant fact that _other_ people will
still judge on.

------
senatorobama
What's the best MOOC on Compilers?

------
Pica_soO
Sounds to me like a lot of people are searching for a course which will allow
one to overcome a lack of intrinsic motivation. But all the best tools in the
world wont make you a smith, if you find no fun in hammering red hot iron.

------
loco5niner
Previously:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14936265](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14936265)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15084059](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15084059)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15068785](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15068785)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14930203](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14930203)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14928598](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14928598)

~~~
melling
zero comments. We do get a lot of resubmissions but if there wasn’t a previous
discussion, we just wasted our time clicking those links.

