
Voice, an invite-only social network where everyone is verified - aspenmayer
https://voice.com
======
emerged
There is a push against anonymity on the internet, but I'm not convinced that
is the best way. Not with the growing threat of cancel culture. I'd rather go
the other direction and provide additional assurances of privacy.

~~~
ahoy
cancel culture, as its commonly understood ("woke" scolds running well-meaning
people out of public life) largely doesn't exist. There are a few high profile
cases of it happening to actual sexual predators, otherwise it's as ephemeral
as Fox News hosts hyping fear over the "knockout game".

~~~
danhak
I believed this until this year. Then I saw it happen to a friend who is
prominent in his niche industry but otherwise unknown.

He was disgraced via Twitter and forced to step down from the firm he created
for making some offensive jokes.

~~~
davidgerard
That's very nonspecific.

~~~
danhak
That’s deliberate. I don’t want to identify my friend on this forum. I am
disputing the parent’s assertion that “cancel culture” is limited to a few
high profile cases. It is far more prevalent than that. The high profile cases
are obviously just the ones that most people are aware of.

~~~
ChrisClark
Then without any more details we'll probably just assume "some offensive
jokes" are actually horrible, it's the most common defense by people like
that.

"But it was just a joke!" "No Grandpa, you're just a racist."

You're right though, it is a lot more prevalent than just high profile cases.
But I also assume your friend deserved it.

~~~
eska
> we'll probably just assume "some offensive jokes" are actually horrible

Don't speak for others.

My personal experience is that women I never had romantic relationships with
pretended that I raped them to get influence or money (once as a teen, once as
an adult). Talking about this openly 3 friends have told me that similar
things have happened to them. But I also won't give you specifics so you'll
probably assume that we deserved it.

~~~
newacct583
> Don't speak for others.

This subthread is _literally_ a response to someone speaking on behalf of a
friend.

And that logic is a little suspect: cancel culture is such a pervasive threat
that (1) no one can talk about it happening despite (2) _everyone_ talking
about it happening everywhere, pervasively, without evidence.

That doesn't seem off to you?

------
FryHigh
Main differences from the usual social network.

\- KYC based account registration. Legally verified names.

\- Blockchain powered (de-centralisation). Censorship resistant. Many
interfaces to this website.

\- Earn money. Users get paid for content directly. More likes, views
translate to payment.

Early stages of voice.com but the ideas have potential in a hard to crack
market.

~~~
faitswulff
> Earn money. Users get paid for content directly. More likes, views translate
> to payment.

Is this funded on an advertising model? Otherwise where does the money to pay
users come from?

~~~
davidgerard
magical crypto "money" \- Voice is basically EOS Twitter

------
philipkiely
I use my real name, a recent photo (where possible), links to my own domain,
and other personally identifiable information on every site that I use, even
default anonymous ones like Reddit. I do not have alt accounts. Being able to
live this way on the internet is a privilege that I recognize is not available
to many people, but for those who can I highly recommend it; it ensures that I
always think twice before posting and engage in good faith.

~~~
amoshi
What if you want to express a thought or opinion that is not politically
correct though, or might simply be controversial? It by think twice you mean
not express it at all, then it sounds like subconscious self-censorship (if
such a thing exists).

Just a reminder, politically incorrect != incorrect

~~~
aspenmayer
This reads like one wanting to keep their accumulated social capital and
continue making social capital outlays publicly, and likewise reap the
dividends of their own social capital investments, as long as the winds of
popular acclaim blow one’s way, while expecting to keep one’s shirt when the
winds change. It seems like one not having any skin in the game, or wanting to
have it both ways. Talk is cheap. Money talks, bullshit walks. Put your money
where your mouth is, or you’re freeloading, lacking the courage of your
convictions, or lacking the moral turpitude to proclaim your convictions
publicly.

~~~
aspenmayer
As a counterpoint to myself, I also agree with the link below. There are good
reasons for and against using real names. I do not mean to paint with too wide
a brush; all free people are and should always be able to decide for
themselves whether to use their name or a pseudonym, and readers are usually
able to tell why authors do so from context. It gets a bit muddy where social
media comes into play, which is why this debate will never be over, and why
there is no one right answer. I hope I didn’t come off as someone imposing my
choice on others. I simply think there are more downsides than upsides for
readers when it comes to pseudonymous authors; however, some texts will never
be written under an author’s real name for perfectly legitimate or no reason,
and the world would be diminished if those voices were not also heard, and
those stories not told.

[https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Who_is_harmed_by_a_%22Re...](https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Who_is_harmed_by_a_%22Real_Names%22_policy%3F)

------
8organicbits
Every site that does "verification" seems to also prohibit anonymity (like
this one seems to do). But I don't think that needs to be.

Imagine a site that does ID verification. Add OAuth and now other sites can
integrate (similar to login with Google). However, instead of passing name,
user ID, and email the verification site can pass an anonymous ID.

With that approach you get 1-to-1 guarantees for human-to-account, preventing
sock puppet accounts, users who create new accounts when banned, etc. But, the
other sites never know who the user actually is.

Its anonymzing proxy meets OAuth single sign on.

Anyone know existing site that do anything like that?

~~~
rglullis
[https://www.human-id.org/](https://www.human-id.org/)

------
Nextgrid
What's the business model? One of the problems with current social media is
that their advertising-dependent business model relies on "engagement" and
thus the platforms are built to encourage outrage, etc.

------
floatingatoll
The third post on the page is coinspam. Nope, I misread, this is a blockchain
social network.

@aspenmayer, what is interesting about this social network to you?

~~~
aspenmayer
I found it while on Twitter, and thought the space was really expanding
rapidly. I thought that their KYC integration combined with a kind of
micropayment tipping/boosting mechanism was interesting as a way of both
surfacing and rewarding quality content in a transparent, verifiable way.

I also posted some recent things about Paras[1], which uses NEAR Protocol[2],
both of which I find interesting for the same reasons. Paras allows what seems
to me like a self-hosted federated platform with built-in
tipping/mining/staking/royalties.

Do you find this interesting too? What are you looking at in this space? I’m a
learner and hold no cryptocurrency of any kind, nor do I develop for any
crypto. I’m just curious about it, and want to share what I’m seeing if it
seems like it will resonate with the audience, in this case HN.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737526](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737526)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737560](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23737560)

~~~
floatingatoll
What is it about .. “surfacing and rewarding quality content” (I only write
like this at work?) .. that makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning
and research it and post about it?

Is there some personal experience that could help us understand your interest?
Have you worked as a librarian? Do you believe in blockchain as a way to
overcome discrimination? Have you worked as a newspaper editor and feel that
decentralized opinions are a solution to problems you encountered? If so, what
were those problems, and how did they make you feel?

I can’t tell from your reply if you have any emotions on the topic, or why.
You find the topic interesting because of a list of buzzwords, but your reply
- while a very well-written set of words - does not contain any emotion with
which others can resonate. As a result my initial takeaway is that you’re
somehow shilling for coin - profiting somehow from placing this content at HN,

If you aren’t, I apologize! But this is HN, and the coin spam is real, and so
if you can bring some life to why _you_ personally are jazzed about this - not
just referencing the technologies by keyword but actually explaining why they
matter to you using feelings words - then that would go a long way towards
establishing some authenticity here.

~~~
aspenmayer
Of course. I nearly mentioned in my previous disclosure or disclaimer that I
have no interest at all in these areas, financially or in any other kind of
quid pro quo. I don’t receive any benefit from posting, for any of my posts. I
just do it because I genuinely don’t learn or reason well in a vacuum, and I
don’t know enough about most of my fields of interest to be an expert; I’m a
generalist user in most advanced discussions and cutting edge areas of
computing at best, and my interests are usually cursory and self-edifying, if
not deep-dives.

I hope my post was not interpreted as shilling. That’s why I also mentioned
other topics I’ve posted about in this space, to show my own hand as well as
show that I’m not playing favorites. I’m just here to learn from those whose
experience and knowledge surpass my own, and whose skills I care to learn
myself.

In all honesty, I was having trouble sleeping and was just clicking around on
Twitter, found some interesting projects, so I thought, and shared them. There
really wasn’t a whole lot of reasoning on my part, beyond my perhaps-mistaken
belief that the content was of interest to readers of HN.

I’m open to further discussion on this or any other matter. My only motive is
to receive and share info, and if I can help, I want to do so.

~~~
floatingatoll
HN readers are hypersensitive to coin stuff — far moreso than most topics.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it does lessen the concerns somewhat.

I think that I'm still very wary of this due to their dependence on blockchain
and lack of clear profit model. I wish they had a tech landing page that
explained why they're interesting (and not just 'woo blockchain') succinctly.

------
web-cowboy
I want this exact same thing (for many of the same reasons), but for gaming.

\- Toxic people can finally be identified and penalized \- Better matchmaking
(less "smurfing", less streamer accounts going from zero to hero)

I haven't looked too closely at Voice's setup, but does "verified" always have
to mean non-private, and non-anonymous?

~~~
marcinzm
And female gamers can be stalked to their home addresses by obsessed people.
Anonymity has some advantages for marginalized social groups as it lets them
avoid predators better.

edit: Actually I'd assume a lot off harassment of people via other channels
would happen including SWATing, emailing employers to get them fired, false
reports to get them banned on other sites, contacting spouses with fake
evidence of infidelity, etc. Only the victim loses anonymity, the attacker
keeps it. Competitive gaming brings out the worst in some people.

------
aspenmayer
Voice in the news

[https://decrypt.co/34598/crypto-social-media-platform-
voice-...](https://decrypt.co/34598/crypto-social-media-platform-voice-
finally-launches-on-eos)

Welcome post

[https://app.voice.com/post/@salah/join-
us-1593835144-1](https://app.voice.com/post/@salah/join-us-1593835144-1)

Help and FAQs

[https://help.voice.com/hc/en-us](https://help.voice.com/hc/en-us)

The tech which makes Voice work

[https://eos.io](https://eos.io)

------
davidgerard
With the real names thing, they might have the startling success of Google
Plus!

A real names policy is one of those perennial ideas people keep thinking will
fix everything - but there's zero evidence for this, and some evidence against
it.

The total examples I have:

* In 2007, South Korea required commenters on sites with over 100,000 users to supply their Resident Registration Number (national identity number), and this reduced malicious comments by ... 0.9%. They scrapped it in 2011. [http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/30/2011...](http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/12/30/2011123001526.html)

* UK, 2007: a study of students showed they were worse, not better. "There was four times as much flaming when they knew each other than when they didn't." [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/jul/12/guardianw...](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2007/jul/12/guardianweeklytechnologysection.privacy)

* In a now-unavailable post to Google+ by Yonatan Zunger, one of the people whose problem Google+ was, he said: [https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/WegYVNkZQqq](https://plus.google.com/+YonatanZunger/posts/WegYVNkZQqq)

> "While there was an expectation that people would behave better when their
> activity was tied to their own identity, as that identity is presumably a
> highly valuable and non-renewable resource to them, the evidence weighed
> against it: people seem quite willing to be jerks under their own
> identities."

Voice has put forth this policy that's completely lacking in evidence,
presumably because they just felt like it'd work out fine.

And that's before we get to Voice's core audience being the crypto crowd - who
have some reluctance to provide full KYC dox to join EOS Twitter.

If anyone ever tries to tell you that a Real Names policy is a good idea - ask
them for their numbers on this.

Also, did you know Voice paid $30m for the name voice.com? A historical record
amount - even sex.com only went for $13m.
[https://domainnamewire.com/2019/06/20/yes-voice-com-is-
the-m...](https://domainnamewire.com/2019/06/20/yes-voice-com-is-the-most-
expensive-publicly-announced-domain-ever-sold/)

------
crsv
Pretty expensive domain. Wonder if it was bought using ICO fugazi money, since
this looks like the content is oddly interested in fringe crypto content.

~~~
realbarack
Apparently they recently got a "$150 million cash injection":
[https://decrypt.co/34598/crypto-social-media-platform-
voice-...](https://decrypt.co/34598/crypto-social-media-platform-voice-
finally-launches-on-eos). And voice.com cost $30 MILLION!

------
ksec
_Error 1020

Access denied

What happened?

This website is using a security service to protect itself from online
attacks._

~~~
luckylion
The money was spent on buying the domain, there wasn't any budget to implement
caching.

------
im3w1l
So can someone explain what this is? It's not very clear to me.

------
empath75
Here’s what I’m surprised about — nobody has built a moderation focused social
network that has tried to poach Reddit’s best moderators by offering to pay
them.

------
fortran77
Ha! Blockchain!

> Voice uses the inherent characteristics of blockchain technology to promote
> trusted and transparent social interactions.

~~~
CharlesW
So based on that quote either they don't know what blockchains do and don't
do, or they're just straight-up lying.

Voice requires the use of EOS coins, the creator of which paid a $24 million
fine to the Securities and Exchange Commission over its 2017 ICO.

From [https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/icos-magic-beans-and-
bu...](https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/icos-magic-beans-and-bubble-
machines/)

 _" The legal EOS Token Purchase Agreement is a frankly amazing document that
everyone should read.[1] US citizens or residents are not to buy the tokens
(though EOS assures us they totally don’t constitute a security – hear that,
SEC?); the tokens are defined as not being useful in any manner whatsoever;
forty-eight hours after the end of the distribution period, the tokens will no
longer be transferable; the buyer promises not to purchase them for
speculation or investment. If there’s any legal problems caused by you buying
these officially worthless things, you agree to indemnify EOS."_

[1] PDF:
[https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/references/EOS%20Token%...](https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/references/EOS%20Token%20Purchase%20Agreement%20-%20June%2022,%202017.pdf)

~~~
aspenmayer
You and David himself have posted about this, and I am glad you did. This
looks pretty shady considering the parties involved and their past actions. I
appreciate the context you bring to this post.

------
seemslegit
Sounds like a very useful way to identify people one would not wish to hear
from in real life either.

