
An anti-ageing startup is offering transfusions of blood from young people - robzyb
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/this-anti-aging-start-up-is-paying-thousands-of-dollars-for-teen-blood
======
sp332
They buy the blood from blood banks, so people donating blood don't know it's
going to paranoid rich people instead of sick people, and they don't get any
of the money!

Edit: I thought it was illegal in the USA to pay for body parts, but there is
an exception for plasma (and maybe the rest of the blood?). But it's already
predatory
[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/business/06plasma.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/business/06plasma.html)
and this new business only makes it look worse.

~~~
tyingq
_" His start-up, Ambrosia, is charging about $8,000 a pop for blood
transfusions"_

And a quick google search says that people donating to a blood bank get $20 to
$60 a pint, and the blood banks sell for $200-$600 a pint.

I wonder if blood banks will figure out the model here and sell direct.

~~~
Overtonwindow
Blood banks don't usually pay for blood. That's why it's called donating... If
someone is paying for blood where do I sign up because I could use the money..
:-/

~~~
tyingq
Elsewhere in the thread, but the nuance is what it is used for. You can get
paid if it ends up as plasma.

------
_jal
I love that, true to form for the U.S.'s peculiar flavor of capitalism, the
producers can't legally sell their product, but those who receive the
donations can, leading to a company whose value-add is apparently advertising
and customer service creating yet another creepy service for rich paranoids.

Think I'll be checking with the place I occasionally donate to and see where
theirs ends up. If they need money, they can ask for that; reselling what I
thought was going to hospitals, etc. to these literal vampires is not, ah,
kosher with me.

~~~
acd10j
This will discourage voluntery doners from blood donation. It's really shame
that there is no regulations to prevent this behavior.

~~~
kolbe
I hope it does. If we need to ruin the system to rebuild it then so be it. But
it is colossally fucked up that we ask/pressure teenagers to give blood
without compensation. It's fucked up that we don't tell them, "we're going to
sell this for $1000, and use that money to help pay our CEO $10,000,000 this
year."

------
simplicio
Putting aside the ookiness factor, the science here seems pretty tenuous.
"Self-reported improvements that scientists have been unable to replicate in
clinical trials" are what's behind every questionable medical practice from
homepathy to crystal healing.

Especially given the time and money involved in having to get regular
transfusions, I'd think the practitioners would be better off using the time
to spend an extra hour in the gym.

~~~
BlackLotus89
> "Self-reported improvements that scientists have been unable to replicate in
> clinical trials"

I'm not sure where this quote comes from or even if it's a quote, but over the
last couple of years I often read about studies proving just what this
controversial startup claims. Reversing aging in mice and better healing
through younger blood. The ability to use pre existing stem cells through
transfusions of "younger blood" and such. I'm not sure what to think of it
especially since it was only tested on mice and I didn't check the credentials
of the researchers, but a quick search turned up multiple hits:

https//arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/component-of-human-umbilical-cord-
blood-perks-up-the-minds-of-old-mice/

[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130325093659.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130325093659.htm)

I remember another article that I couldn't find right now, but claiming a non
reproducibility seems wrong.

Again wouldn't go to this startup and think that many things are wrong here,
but plausible at least.

------
cavanasm
Without knowing how reputable any of this is, I'm somehow not shocked to hear
Peter Thiel is interested in medically unnecessary blood transfusions. This
could be totally fake, but just based on what I know about him from news, this
seems like a perfectly plausible and normal for Peter Thiel interest.

~~~
ithinkinstereo
Here's a prior article about this startup and Peter Thiel:

[http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-
to-...](http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-to-inject-
himself-with-young-peoples-blood)

------
bigtunacan
There is already a shortage of plasma and blood for people with real medical
conditions that need treatment.

Consider in IVIG treatments that thousands of plasma donations are needed to
make a SINGLE treatment dose and most people receiving these treatments have
chronic diseases requiring ongoing treatment, so for just a single patient for
one year you are talking about in excess of 10,000 donations needed.

But hey; lets just sell it all to the Peter Thiels of the world so we can keep
them alive forever...

------
yincrash
“I don’t want to say the word panacea, but here’s something about teenagers,
whatever is in young blood is causing changes that appear to make the aging
process reverse.”

Sounds like the most stereotypical trope of snake oil.

------
bighi
The title should be "a scam startup is stealing money from fool people".

~~~
andrewclunn
And blood from injured people.

------
emersonrsantos
This remembers the death of Gianbattista Cibo in 1492, or Pope Inmocent VIII,
and an attempt from a foreign doctor to revive him on his deathbed by blood
transfusions from three young male children (who died as well in the process).

~~~
mapster
Interesting piece on the wiki page: there appears to be confusion re: drinking
blood vs transfusion.

------
markkat
From what I understand, Ambrosia is transfusing plasma, not whole blood.

There are a number of studies, going back many years, suggesting that young
blood has a rejuvenating effect in older animals.

I have been using bone marrow mesenchymal stem cells to develop therapies for
stroke and other forms of neural injury for more than a decade. What is
particularly striking, is the effect of age upon these cells is quite obvious,
both in vitro and therapeutically. In our own work, we found that when we
treated stroked older animals with syngeneic MSCs from younger mice, they
recovered much better than if they were treated with aged-matched MSCs.

What is even more interesting IMO, is that a couple of groups have reported
that transplantation of young-to-old bone marrow, or just young-to-old MSCs
significantly extends lifespan in mice.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23967009](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23967009)
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22355586](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22355586)

Based on the value of preserving your own autologous bone marrow stem cells,
and their potential to be used in self young-to-old rejuvenating
transplantation, I co-founded
[https://foreverlabs.com](https://foreverlabs.com). In short, we cryopreserve
your own bone marrow stem cells, to be used later in life. It's much like cord
blood stem cell storage, but for adults.

The blood is born out of the bone marrow. Furthermore, the bone marrow cells
(including MSCs) produce many soluble factors (proteins, cytokins,
microvesicles, non-coding RNAs, etc.) that can significantly alter the blood
profile. Thus, there is reason to believe that the parabiosis or the 'young
blood effect' could be conferred by rejuvenating the bone marrow niche.
Indeed, we this might be happening in the studies cited above.

We just launched our own version of a young-to-old bone marrow stem cell
transplantation study in mice. It is our goal to better understand and
optimize the young-to-old bone marrow transplantation effect, and to
eventually offer the ability for our clients to donate their own younger bone
marrow to their older selves (in addition to providing a store of young cells
for other potential therapies).

There is much work to be done, but IMO there is real opportunity for a health-
maintenance approach to medicine, and this is one of them. Disease treatment
will not long remain as the most rational or economical approach to
healthcare.

------
elorant
In the meantime people who need transfusions because they have kidney failure
they might have a hard time getting them.

~~~
gcb0
do you want free blood? are you a communist European?!

...now grab the popcorn and see how the people against free healthcare is
going to rationalize a defense for this.

------
sanxiyn
More traditional clinical trial is being run by Stanford. Estimated completion
was January 2017, but data is not posted yet.

The official title is "The PLasma for Alzheimer SymptoM Amelioration (PLASMA)
Study: Intravenously-Administered Plasma From Young Donors for Treatment of
Mild-To-Moderate Alzheimer's Disease". More on
[https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02256306](https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02256306)

------
AdmiralAsshat
Who knew that Countess Bathory was a visionary entrepreneur?

~~~
logfromblammo
VaaS. Vampirism as a service. Brilliant!

This is another one of those things that makes me fear that open class warfare
is imminent, with torches, pitchforks, guillotines, and all the accessories.

------
GoodOldNe
Their website looks like it was designed in FrontPage 2002:
[https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com](https://www.ambrosiaplasma.com) \- The whole
thing is super weird. As someone who has an interest in transfusion medicine,
I would absolutely not do this.

------
nradov
I was concerned about this because I'm scheduled to donate blood later today
so I contacted the American Red Cross on Facebook and asked if they had ever
sold blood to Ambrosia.

"The Red Cross has no record of providing blood to this organization."

So Ambrosia must be getting their blood from another supplier.

------
gcb0
there is a bad 80s made for tv movie (or maybe a twilight zone ep) where a
convenience store worker finds out the store is a front for stealing young's
people blood so old rich people can live forever. in the end he run away and
one of the old rich customer hold the pursuit saying "don't worry, he will be
back eventually"

...and now it's lucrative pseudo science. sigh. maybe if they find the
director he can be their very own hon Hubbard!

------
kbenson
Now you too can have your own blood boy. Careful that your donor has good
habits, or your cholesterol might go through the roof. At that rate, you might
die by 120!

For those of you confused, it's a reference to a recent episode of Silicon
Valley, which actually covered this.

------
gadders
Anyone watch the Strain? [http://the-
strain.wikia.com/wiki/Eldritch_Palmer](http://the-
strain.wikia.com/wiki/Eldritch_Palmer)

------
plussed_reader
The old taking the vigor of the youth; what an apt metaphor.

~~~
nerflad
It's just like social security!

------
digikata
If we are on the verge of cultured meats of various types, is blood that far
behind?

------
wideem
Every millionaire wants their personal blood boy :)

------
nsnick
I always suspected Peter Thiel was a vampire.

------
kyriakos
Thought Silicon Valley TV show was a comedy.

~~~
jkelsey
It's satire.

~~~
hwillis
I'm pretty sure its actually a documentary

~~~
hinkley
Life is satire?

------
korzun
Start-ups in the health care field have difficulty managing their HIPAA /
HITECH compliance. You would have to be a special kind of idiot to allow them
anywhere near your blood.

------
taf2
vampires

~~~
hellbanner
Blood vampires & financial vampires combined! Horrible..

------
keymone
just make it a market, regulate it to ensure there's no abuse and let people
sell their blood if they want to. this could lead to improvements in people's
health - to donate your blood it gets tested for diseases.

edit: grammar

