
Pine64 September update - jandeboevrie
https://www.pine64.org/2020/09/15/september-update-let-it-sink-in/
======
errantspark
I have a PinePhone and I've been running Manjaro on it for a couple weeks.
It's terrible and it's also the only phone I've been truly excited about, well
ever.

I managed to watch some TV shows on it the other day! It's really cool stuff
having a phone that's actually a proper little computer. The power management
is terrible, the front camera doesn't have drivers, it's near impossible to do
things that seem trivial (play an audiobook at 2x speed) without resorting to
the command line. It often ends up in states that need a reboot. It's
extremely rough around the edges but I can use it to post on HN while walking
around Mountain View, so it's a huge step toward something real exciting.

:) Seriously, I love the thing.

~~~
bitwize
That's exactly how I feel about mine. It runs PostmarketOS and I swapped out
Phosh for SXMO which, despite being out of left field UI-wise, is way less
janky and frustrating. It's still not within spitting distance of Android in
terms of UX, let alone iOS, but it _is_ the smartphone revolution we were all
hoping for: hackable to the bone, runs all your favorite Linux software and
_only_ the software you want, open hardware (but for a few blobs) and hard
kill switches for the camera, microphone, and radios. Great things will be
built upon a platform like this.

~~~
bergstromm466
> but it _is_ the smartphone revolution we were all hoping for: hackable to
> the bone

I'm starting to get into this stuff, and your comment has me so excited!!

------
ljhsiung
It's pretty astounding to me how much progress that Pine64 has made in the
last year.

I just got my Pinebook Pro last week (and typing this comment on it), and
funny enough, I've been more productive on it for side projects than I have
been for months.

I kinda wanted a PineTab, and so am a little sad to hear about the LCD delays,
but their commentary and rationale on the delays and LCD QA is a type of
transparency that I haven't heard in quite some time and it just builds hype
for me.

~~~
dudik
What do you think caused the productivity boost?

~~~
onerous_beans
At least for me with my Pinebook Pro, it feels a little bit like a typewriter
does to me for writing -- it's perfectly capable, and powerful enough for all
of my dev work and side projects aside from heavier stuff or any ML, but still
limited enough and dedicated enough an environment that I find myself getting
more done sitting out in the back yard or on the couch than I would sitting w/
my laptop regularly

------
unwind
It's really weird to scroll past all these fantastical hardware
achievements/products, and still end up a little bit disappointed since there
was no update about their soldering iron (the "Pinecil").

Really looking forward to that one, it seems like a good contender to the
TS80/TS100 irons but more open and so on.

It _should_ be due for release around end of September, so ... fingers
crossed. :)

~~~
mmebane
I was disappointed, too, but they added an update in a comment[1]:

> Right, the Pinecil is coming along; Ben Brown who’s porting his firmware to
> the RISC-V chip ran into some problems with the prototype we sent him (our
> fault), so a new unit is on its way to him now. Once he confirms that
> everything is working as intended we’ll file a production request with the
> factory. I too am waiting for it with anticipation and hope that it won’t be
> much longer before we get it in the store.

[1]: [https://www.pine64.org/2020/09/15/september-update-let-it-
si...](https://www.pine64.org/2020/09/15/september-update-let-it-sink-
in/#comment-2651)

~~~
unwind
Late update: it seems they've added a suitable category to their store now,
but without any actual product(s) listed.

[1]: [https://pine64.com/product-category/soldering-
irons/](https://pine64.com/product-category/soldering-irons/)

------
dmayle
Personally, I'm waiting for the next batch of PineTabs. I've been wanting to
create a programmable digital picture frame (with touch screen) for some time
now, and the hardware costs are pretty high for all of the raspberry pi
projects out there vs the $79 for the PineTab. The Amazon Fire 7 is cheaper
($50), but I'd rather build on top of vanilla Linux than try to replace the
Amazon OS to strip out Android.

------
maelito
Since I've bought the Surface Pro X, I can't go back to laptops with fans and
poor battery life. The hardware is great.

But Windows is still bad. It can't even display the good clock, as an example
of inacceptable bugs.

If I could find the same tablet-laptop format, with ubuntu support, that would
be perfect, well until Android gets proper desktop support.

Wireless Dex by Samsung is very promising, but the perfect portbale monitor
isn't there yet.

~~~
chaosharmonic
Yeah, I've been keeping an eye on USB4 and WiFi 6E - and avoiding new devices
for the time being - for this exact reason. My dream setup involves a litany
of dumb displays in different form factors - VR, tablet, desktop, or whatever
else - that I can power from one primary device, rather than buying a slew of
discrete systems that'll be compromised on spec in order to accommodate larger
screens etc. [1] But the I/O for that won't quite be there until sometime next
year.

Add to the mix GKIs; AOSP's recent ability to boot from mainline; and the
ensuing implication that all of these new adaptive shells being developed rn
for the PinePhone could be reused on an Android device [2]; and the thought of
2021 has me _salivating_.

[1] Mostly, anyway. Some stuff would still be purpose-built, but realistically
the main limiting factor for my phone as a daily driver at this point is the
form factor.

[2] Assuming bootloader unlock, at least until we see how DSUs play out.

~~~
jszymborski
fwiw, I've been using RDP quite productively on my anemic Thinkpad to remote
into my desktop computer which is spec'd for deep learning tasks. The latency
is great on my local network, and fine over ZeroTier.

~~~
chaosharmonic
How involved of a setup is RDP if most of your systems aren't Windows? I
haven't fallen far down the rabbit hole of remote device management, outside
of some basic familiarity with SSH. (One particular use case I've been itching
to try, but have no idea where to start, is using one system as a secondary
display for another. Can an RDP session do this, or is it limited strictly to
mirroring?)

Incidentally ZeroTier is new to me, and an interesting rabbit hole in itself
(along with the BSL, which is also a first-time read) since I'm in a similar
spot with VPNs.

~~~
jszymborski
ZeroTier is a breeze to setup. I'd like to use WireGuard, but it wasn't
immediately obvious how I'd achieve a "bridged lan" setup. I had used
SoftEther for some time but my configuration was brittle.

I RDP into my Windows desktop from my laptop running Ubuntu and my iPhone
without trouble. I use Remmina on Ubuntu[0], and the Microsoft RDP app [1] on
iOS.

Before this I was fiddling with TightVNC and a reverse SSH'ing from Window,
but ultimately RDP through ZeroTier was (surprisingly) the easiest and most
stable way I acheived.

[0] [https://remmina.org/](https://remmina.org/)

[1] [https://apps.apple.com/us/app/remote-desktop-
mobile/id714464...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/remote-desktop-
mobile/id714464092)

------
jMyles
> HW switches: LTE/GNSS, WiFi, Microphone, Speaker, Cameras

Is this only the second phone to have kill switches for these devices?

Or are there others about which I'm just not aware?

~~~
Oomoo0sh
Note that pinephone's kill switches are not as useful as librem 5's ones,
because you can't easily switch them on the go. The switches are inside the
phone, so you have to open it, and they're so tiny that you need a toothpicker
or a needle to switch them.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
It should be noted, however, that the Pinephone's cover is designed to be
easily removed. And I have had no problem flipping the kill switches with my
house keys that I am always carrying with me anyway.

~~~
fsflover
> Pinephone's cover is designed to be easily removed

Yes, compared with iPhones or Android phones, but not really. It requires two
hands and at least several seconds. You will definitely miss that cool photo
moment.

~~~
abawany
I've been wanting to cut a little window in the back cover to get access to
those, plus another to ventilate the SoC.

------
CameronNemo
No word on the ARM deal and how they might be affected. They likely don't want
to ruffle feathers before the dust is even settled, but I must wonder what is
going through their heads. Hopefully they are looking into what it would take
to put together a RISC-V SBC.

~~~
JustFinishedBSG
Why would Pine64 care in anyway about the buyout ?

~~~
fsflover
Because Nvidia has a bad history concerning open source:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia#Open-
source_software_su...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia#Open-
source_software_support)

~~~
solarkraft
This doesn't really matter in the mid term. Documentation is mostly a thing of
the chip manufacturer and that has already been horrible, but worked around by
the Linux community.

------
OnACoffeeBreak
Has anyone else had issues with Pine64 shipping phones or laptops recently?

I placed an order July 31 and still don't have shipment information for a
PineBook Pro laptop. Support hasn't gotten back to me with any dates for 5
days now.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
The update specifically talks about why the PBP is delayed. Pine64 is a small
team, annoying them with requests for ship dates tends to be pointless: They
post publicly when shipments go out.

~~~
OnACoffeeBreak
Shipment page [0] says that the current batch update was slated for September
11th. I haven't gotten an update from the batch before that one.

I appreciate the fact that they are a small team. It just seems odd that the
next shipment has been planned and I haven't heard anything on the shipment
before that one.

0: [https://www.pine64.org/shipping/](https://www.pine64.org/shipping/)

------
ArtWomb
Ordering my P64 Pro soon. Switching from CrOS. And if all goes well I would
consider phone as well. To have as a second device for secure comms with admin
hosts ;)

~~~
m-p-3
In case you're looking for an OS for the P64 Pro:
[https://blog.elementary.io/elementary-os-on-pinebook-
pro/](https://blog.elementary.io/elementary-os-on-pinebook-pro/)

~~~
CameronNemo
>For now, though, the kernel is just built into the image at build time and so
does not currently receive updates.

~~~
m-p-3
Ah, that's disappointing but still a step towards official support. Hopefully
it will reach a state good enough to become an option. I'd get a Pinebook Pro
just for that OS.

------
Alopis
So what's the current state of the Pinephone? Is it viable as a daily driver?
Half a year ago I was still hearing about broken suspend, power issues, broken
call/SMS, etc.

~~~
powersnail
I have Mobian installed, and I don't have a spare SIM card to try calling and
SMS. (I have tried postmarketOS and kde neon, and neither was good enough)

Functionally, everything else works: WIFI, apps, suspend, camera, music, etc.

I wouldn't use this as my primary phone, though, as it still crashed on me a
few times. Many programs cannot adapt to the screen size effectively; buttons,
menus are sometimes not possible to see.

It's not unusable, but not ideal if you want a robust primary phone.

Another drawback (if used as a main phone) is that it's really slow. In fact,
it's possibly the slowest device --- with regard to user interaction --- that
I have used in years, which is okay for a pinephone, as it is intended as a
testing device.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
I agree on the slowness of the device. The Pinephone has been a huge
disappointment for me in that regard. But I think that says more about the
bloatedness of software in 2020 than the Allwinner A64 CPU in the Pinephone.
Why does the old Nokia N900, with less RAM and a 2009-era processor, feel so
snappy and responsive while still providing an interface that still seems
modern today, but Phosh on the Pinephone has ragged scrolling and opening any
new window takes forever?

~~~
tmzt
I wonder what it would take to install Maemo/Meego or even matchbox and gpe. I
never had a Nokia tablet, but I had a Zaurus SL5500 and it ran gpe usably.
Matchbox also does a good job resizing apps to the full screen.

I have run Mobian and Phosh on Pinephone and while clean it was slow, clumsy
to switch apps, and did not size most apps properly.

