
Sweden closer to being the first cashless society with negative interest rates - ogezi
http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-cashless-society-negative-interest-rates-2015-10
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draw_down
> Credit Suisse says the rule of thumb in Scandinavia is: "If you have to pay
> in cash, something is wrong."

I hope people don't start talking like this in the US. Something about that
statement is very disturbing.

~~~
geon
How? You are not forced to pay electronically. You just have an option to
cash.

The only time I use cash would be if I buy something from the swedish
equivalent of craigslist, or in a farmers market. And even there it would be
common to use Swish/Square.

~~~
x1798DE
I read that statement more as, "If you refuse to pay electronically" than "if
you have no electronic means of payment."

I know it's contrary to the literal meaning, but it feels like the unstated
assumption is that you would only pay in cash if you _must_ , not out of a
general preference for privacy.

~~~
geon
> I know it's contrary to the literal meaning

Also contrary to reality (source: me, being Swedish), and logic; A retailer
will hardly refuse to accept cash (although buses do refuse cash to avoid the
risk of robbery), while you might avoid buying if you need to handle cash.

~~~
x1798DE
That phrase is literally linked to an article called "Sweden: 'We don't accept
cash'" ([https://www.credit-suisse.com/us/en/news-and-
expertise/econo...](https://www.credit-suisse.com/us/en/news-and-
expertise/economy/articles/news-and-expertise/2015/03/en/sweden-we-dont-
accept-cash.html)). It seems like what you are saying is that they are just
making some sort of pun, but you can see why this would seem like it's about
people being _suspicious_ of cash.

~~~
geon
At least 60 % of the "facts" in that article are made up.

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gizi
It will not work. If there is a need for fiat cash in the economy, they will
start using euros or dollars instead of Swedish crowns (SEK).

Injecting foreign cash back into the cashless SEK economy amounts to selling
these foreign banknotes at any, available exchange point. They cannot
reasonably ban these transactions, because foreigners bring these foreign bank
notes along with them when they visit Sweden.

If they insist on addressing that issue anyway, they will end up introducing
Venezuela-style, self-defeating, absurdistan regulations that will make the
situation only worse. They will be up against a growing number of people
trading against them, in order to defeat such regulations, and to make money
in the process of doing so. As always, it will be full of opportunities to
thoroughly bleed them while making a killing.

So, a Swedish economy without SEK bank notes is possible, but not necessarily
one without cash. If that is the situation that materializes, they will have
made the situation worse for them (foreign cash) instead of better (Swedish
cash). You cannot outsmart economic fundamentals, because there will always be
lots of money in punishing off such attempts.

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HappyFunGuy
It is a national security issue to have cash available for use during a time
of war, or general internet failure, or natural disaster. Tying your national
security to the health of the internet is unwise.

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crimsonalucard
This makes more sense economically. Physical products in general degrade in
value over time. Cash by itself does not degrade in value over time. Using
cash to represent products is a sort of mismatch. If the products' value
degrades so should the value of the instrument representing said product.

I don't know why they use negative savings interest rates when the government
can provide the same service through QE or lowering loan interest rates.

~~~
cyrus9020
Cash can "degrade", it's called inflation.

~~~
crimsonalucard
That's different from value degradation.

Additionally if you read further you'd see that I addressed inflation.
Interest for loans and QE are all methods the government uses to inflate cash.

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wodenokoto
Well, they can (hopefully) still buy foreign currency and Gold coins, such as
Krugerrands.

~~~
digitalengineer
Executive Order 6102: "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and
gold certificates within the continental United States".

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geon
Extremely sensationalized headline. The only source for the microwave thing is
hearsay from some policeman.

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yAnonymous
So in a cashless society, what happens when you cancel your bank account?

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f3llowtraveler
Bitcoin.

~~~
maxander
The suggestion that Bitcoin would act as a replacement for _government bonds_
in any foreseeable future would reduce most economists to tears of laughter.
The interest rate tweaks being discussed here are negligible compared to the
market rate fluctuations of Bitcoin on a typical week.

