
Do you have a cold or flu? Spit and help Scanadu - sprague
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1RgoEwXkJ4TsuVkgVgXxo5L0yOuni1gD2HnYIDegDRwY/viewform
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larrys
"Fill in your name, e-mail address, and mailing address. "

A great way to build a database of dna! To be used for other reasons.

While I am not seriously thinking that this is some plot to do this it reminds
me a bit of the scheme that the authorities use to round up people wanted on
warrants by sending them a message that they have won a vacation. Then they
all show up at the convention center to collect their winnings and are
arrested en masse saving time and trouble.

In a sense this is really (or I should say really I should say "could be") an
example of social engineering.

~~~
dalke
That's why best practices for human studies is to manage projects like this in
the context of an Institutional Review Board. It's required for "federally
funded projects, clinical trials, and those who seek publication in peer-
reviewed journals." (quoting [http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-
blog/2013/07/22/cr...](http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-
blog/2013/07/22/crowdfunding-and-irbs-the-case-of-ubiome/) ).

It's not required for a company, but if it doesn't exist then I think it's
okay to assume that they are not following the highest ethical guidelines.

Back in 2010, the company "23 And Me" caused an uproar because they were
gathering data without an IRB. They instead got a post-hoc review when, during
a publication peer review, they were asked about the missing IRB. Their board
said basically that since the data isn't traceable to an individual, it falls
outside of the requirements for an IRB.

People are still pissed off about this. See
[http://scientopia.org/blogs/drugmonkey/2013/02/21/plos-
genet...](http://scientopia.org/blogs/drugmonkey/2013/02/21/plos-genetics-
blew-it-by-publishing-a-23andme-paper/) . I agree - the IRB exception must be
done before the data is gathered, not afterwards.

~~~
larrys
Your comment got me thinking.

What is to prevent someone from dumpster diving to collect dna?

While that dna is anonymous if anything interesting turns up in the dna it
would be possible to trace it back to the owner with some certainty because if
it was, say, at a restaurant you could (assuming the use of credit cards,
security cameras) be tied to patrons of that restaurant or workers. And at
that point you could triangulate enough to have a reason for further
investigation and/or get warrants for things. Perhaps (ianal).

Taking this further how would something like that be viewed? I'm curious to
what extent that would be viewed as unethical (in the US SCOTUS already has
said you can pick through trash). So it appears to be legal.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy)

~~~
dalke
> What is to prevent someone from dumpster diving to collect dna?

In general? Nothing. The only prohibitions I know of are the ones I mentioned
(related to scientific research), plus some prohibitions related to the use of
DNA to affect insurance or employment.

I can't easily predict what the future might bring. Science fiction stories
have postulated that a police officer might use some sort of sequencing device
to vacuum a place to see who was there recently. To be countered by someone
releasing dust/cells picked up from public transport seats.

My guess though is that it will be acceptable. Just like state camera
surveillance is acceptable.

------
dalke
Who is their institutional review board?

Their entry at [http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scanadu-scout-the-first-
me...](http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/scanadu-scout-the-first-medical-
tricorder) says:

> As soon as we enter the clinical studies, the measurements relative to each
> study are collected to be part of the study data. This happens within the
> framework of a well defined Institutional Review Board - approved clinical
> protocol.

The page linked to by this HN post says "...to be a part of the first
usability study and then clinical studies for the company’s road to FDA
approval."

Since the page says they just wants saliva samples, not usability feedback,
that means they are in stage 2 - a clinical study.

But I find nothing about their IRB on their web site or elsewhere.

------
RRRA
Beyond the DNA database this could create, it's also for a for profit company
and not a publicly released research? no...

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elwell
1\. Fill out form

2\. Insert pet dog's slobber into test tube

3\. $10 Amazon gift card

4\. Maintain DNA anonymity

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itripn
Indeed, the DNA database building potential of this project is a little
outside my comfort zone.

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DyslexicDog
Tinfoil hat says: "Nice try NSA, go away"

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fragsworth
How about telling us to the best of your knowledge what we had, instead or in
addition to the $10 gift card? I'd really be interested to know, even if it's
a month later.

~~~
citruspi
The third listed benefit of participating is

> Upon request, we will be happy to share your experimental results. It is
> understood that this is not an approved diagnostic test and results should
> not be used for medical diagnosis.

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tqi
So... name, home address, and DNA sample for a $10 gift card?

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_random_
No "US-only" in subject.

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davidw
It'd be super cool if there were a good test for bacterial vs viral things. I
often get sinus infections and get told to wait, wait, wait. Finally, I get
some antibiotics, and the thing is gone in a few days, but in the meantime
I've spent a week miserable, with low energy.

~~~
itripn
Try using a netipot regularly. Took me a while to get over the weirdness of
it, but it's changed my sinuses forever (for the better).

~~~
mmastrac
The squeeze bottles you can buy from Costco are _way_ more effective than neti
pots. I've used both and found the neti pot just not really doing that much.

~~~
davidw
The squeeze bottles (which seem better than neti pots) help, but they don't
actually cure infections, in my case. On the plus side, my kids think it's
extremely entertaining to watch their dad shoot water through his nose!

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sprague
Scanadu, makers of a cool "tricorder" will give you a $10 Amazon gift card if
you send them your spit.

------
seanhandley
Scam-adu?

