
Whatever you do, don't get on a Routemaster bus in London today - edward
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/whatever-you-do-dont-get-on-a-routemaster-bus-in-london-today--WyeOopCYEfl
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Symbiote
> According to EU rules on the welfare of animals during transport,
> ventilation inside cattle trucks must ensure that the temperatures remains
> between five and 30 degrees.

Does that mean cattle trucks need air conditioning if the outside air
temperature is over 30 degrees?

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blowski
I wonder how the temperature compares to the Central Line between Bank and
Tottenham Court Road during morning rush hour.

Can you get a cheap thermometer that takes ambient temperature quickly?

~~~
dreen
Its lower than the routemaster. I use the very bus pictured in the headline
image and switched to the central line route that you mention (sort of,
central line doesnt stop at TCR nowdays) because of the heat. Believe me,
despite being able to usually sit down in the bus, the crowded tube was indeed
more beareble.

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ars
Main quote: "The new Routemasters use a diesel-electric hybrid motor which
produces around half the amount of carbon dioxide of a conventional bus, and
adding air conditioning units would dramatically increase its carbon
footprint."

No windows, no A/C = Very hot bus.

That's actually been a large obstacle to battery operated vehicles: they can
manage to drive with reasonable range, but not with either heat or cooling.

~~~
furyg3
There should be emergency exit hatches at the top of the bus that can be
opened...

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sklogic
London is becoming a capital of the engineering screw-ups. First the
underground trains that won't open doors unless there is a stable GPS signal,
now this. I should stick to walking.

~~~
bcraven
I hadn't heard about the GPS issue, but found this report about it:

[http://www.ciras.org.uk/report-library/train-
operations/5213...](http://www.ciras.org.uk/report-library/train-
operations/52131-issue-with-opening-class-377-doors-on-the-thameslink-route/)

I see it's from Jan '14, do you know if any improvements have been made since?

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JoeAltmaier
They are retrofitting with white-painted roof (which may help) and more
insulation, which can't help. There's a heat source inside the bus - the
people. Insulation will help increase the internal temperature. Sigh.

~~~
brenschluss
The heat source inside the bus (people) is far, far outweighed by the heat
source outside the bus (radiation from the sun, convection from hot air, etc)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Wrong. The issue was, bus inside temps were exceeding outside temps. Only one
way for that to happen - heat sources inside exceed those outside. QED.

~~~
dragonwriter
> The issue was, bus inside temps were exceeding outside temps. Only one way
> for that to happen - heat sources inside exceed those outside.

Wrong.

Put a closed car or bus, completely inert with no internal heat sources, in
the sun. Because its traps air, so the heated air in the bus can't exchange
with cooler air elsewhere (or exchange with heat sinks like the ground as
effectively as outside air can), the temperature in the vehicle will exceed
the temperature of the outside air. Without internal heat sources.

No, I'm not saying that this solar oven effect is _the_ problem with the
busses under discussion, but its a real and easily observable effect which is
sufficient to refute your "only one way for that to happen" suggestion.

~~~
ars
That's only true if the sides are glass, so light can get in, but hot air
can't.

I guess the windows count.

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fnordsensei
I don't get why they can't be cooled? I've been on plenty of AC'd inner city
buses where I live.

~~~
Symbiote
Indeed, the normal buses used in London have air conditioning. These buses are
a special design which the mayor demanded.

(I haven't used one yet, but I've yet to be convinced they're worth the
additional cost over standard buses, or the articulated buses they replaced.)

~~~
leaveyou
Out of curiosity, what was the problem with the old ones and what improvements
brings this special design ? I might have to visit London later this month and
these "new design" buses really scare me lately because I nearly had a panic
attack in one last year due to same reason: very high temperatures (I suspect
it was more than 50 C in the back), no windows and the driver intended to
drive for ~3 hours to destination without AC !! After 40 minutes in a closed
box under sun the people with kids were going crazy and the driver had to stop
and troubleshoot the AC.

~~~
Symbiote
The articulated buses were used on the busiest routes, which mostly pass
through poorer areas. Wealthier people, who don't use buses so often,
complained that they blocked traffic and encouraged higher levels of fare
evasion. (Both points have some merit, but normal buses also block traffic and
have some fare dodgers.)

The people that used them liked them: three double doors and a low floor made
it nice for old people, parents with children, pushchairs and wheelchair
users. The three doors also made boarding and alighting faster.

The mayor appealed to tradition (red phone boxes, the design of the old red
buses), said they weren't appropriate for London's narrow streets (they were
obviously not routed down such streets), and replaced them with an expensive,
bespoke design. These are more expensive in every way: vehicle cost, lower
total capacity, and employing a bus conductor to supervise the rear platform.

There's some background on
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articulated_buses_in_London](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articulated_buses_in_London)

~~~
bcraven
Interestingly, a lot of the bendy buses were sold to Malta (where they were
even less suited to the road network).

Three promptly burst into flames:
[http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/bendy-buses-sent-
fr...](http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/bendy-buses-sent-from-london-
to-malta-taken-off-their-roads-after-three-burst-into-flames-8788929.html)

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bshimmin
The Tube is absolutely brutal at this time of year, too. Glad I don't live in
London anymore...

