

Activism - zacharyvoase
http://zacharyvoase.com/2013/02/15/activism/

======
davewasmer
I'm confused. The author seems to advocate for civil, rational, open-minded
discussion, and follows it by advocating that the industry effectively exile
someone whose views he disagrees with.

The included quote is not a personal attack on any individual. Yes, its
strongly worded - more than I would personally like. But its not a wild rant
saying women are an inferior race. The quote doesn't even suggest women
_shouldn't_ be in tech - it simply suggests an explanation for the gender
imbalance (however accurate that explanation may be).

Why not attack that explanation instead? Leave no doubt in anyone's mind that
he is painfully wrong - not by public shaming and ostracizing, but through the
rational argument the author seems to so eagerly want.

~~~
zacharyvoase
The article questioned the honour and motivations of men who stand up for
women's rights, calling them: ‘dickless wonders’, posers, ‘bland, craven
hacks’, ‘docile, cringing cowards’, ‘buffoons’, ‘spineless’, ‘ostentatiously
beta’, either ‘weak and stupid’ or ‘horny’, and ‘lazy, spineless weasel[s]’.

~~~
angersock
It did somewhat more than that--at least acknowledge that this is an
incomplete summary of the article.

~~~
tjaerv
Ah, but it's a _sufficient_ summary of the article.

------
fennecfoxen
Okay, how do I put this?

1\. Mike is a big fat jerk. 2\. "everyone who ever published his words about
any subject in any capacity should disavow him and ostracize him for his
thoughtcrime, and everyone who doesn't is bad people" is stupid.

In conclusion, everybody sucks.

~~~
zacharyvoase
I'm not a religious person, but I'd direct you to Proverbs 13:20. You are the
company you keep. And I'm saying that if we want our community to be open,
welcoming and civil, we need to foster those qualities and reject those who do
not value them.

Sometimes negative discrimination _can_ be a useful tool.

~~~
calibraxis
This was a good blog post. If those corporations give their oversized
megaphones to racists and misogynists, they should face retaliation. That's
just plain activism. (Because their decisionmaking is private; they hire
voices they want and exclude those they don't.)

The guy already has free speech. He can post his masculine drivel on the
internet without fearing police. So much for so-called "thoughtcrime".

As for him not being able to get a cushy job writing words, we could discuss
some advanced egalitarian society where we're all guaranteed a decent living.
But not the world we live in, and in fact he's writing screeds against people
trying to equalize gender relations.

------
lmm
So the "civil" thing to do is to make sure anyone who's expressed a particular
opinion can never be employed in the industry?

------
Tichy
Ah, political correctness... While I don't subscribe to the theory that
women's brains are primed towards different things, I don't think it is really
established that (on average) they aren't either. Therefore, to be honest, I
think it should still be possible to entertain that notion so that appropriate
research can be conducted.

~~~
zacharyvoase
Did you read his article? Here's another direct quote:

    
    
        I’m afraid it’s time to be honest about what’s really
        going on when a tech blogger – or even, for shame, a
        proper newspaper journalist – makes these impassioned
        pleas for arbitrary “equality” or – shudder – “quotas”.
        Either they are weak and stupid or they are horny.
    

Yeah, political correctness.

~~~
Tichy
I think it's a valid opinion. This will get me thousands of downvotes, but I
have been wondering, too, why some men seem to be eager to proclaim "yes, we
are pigs". I'm sorry, I'm fighting it, but sometimes "good doggy, good doggy"
is shooting through my head :-/

Edit: I will now log out of HN and vow to not log back in for at least a week.
I don't have the time for another of those discussions.

~~~
zacharyvoase
Mr. Yiannopoulos himself is homosexual, which means I don't think he gets to
make comments like that. (EDIT: I'm saying this as a gay guy; I would never
call into question the honour or motivations of a man who stood up for women's
rights)

~~~
angersock
What makes you say that? Hell, why would you even be so obtuse as to bring up
this other irrelevant point?

------
smacktoward
"Burn the heretic! Buuuuuurn him!" is not a productive contribution to
discussion.

~~~
zacharyvoase
I'm not saying 'burn the heretic'.

I'm saying let's put up a sign at the entrance to the playground saying “play
nicely or leave”.

~~~
hacker789
Where "nicely" is defined, in illegible fine print, to mean "in a manner that
does not challenge the views espoused by Zach".

~~~
raganwald
Two things. First, the article doesn't "challenge" Zach's views in any
comprehensible way. It simply spews vitriol as if the author (who is also the
publisher) was paid by the ad hominem.

Second, the views Zach espouses have more weight than simply Zach's
endorsement. It isn't as if he's the only one who feels this way.

Putting those two things together, I don't think it's fair to use words that
imply that Zach is rejecting the author solely because the author's views
undermine Zach's personal and unique viewpoint, introducing cognitive
dissonance.

You or I may disagree with him, but I think Zach's argument is more akin to
putting up a sign that defines "nicely" the same way Hacker News defines its
guidelines, namely a set of heuristics for discourse that have been found
through experience to lead to productive discussion.

~~~
hacker789
Of course, Zach (or anyone) isn't alone in his views.

You're wrong here, though:

> Putting those two things together, I don't think it's fair to use words that
> imply that Zach is rejecting the author solely because the author's views
> undermine Zach's personal and unique viewpoint, introducing cognitive
> dissonance.

If a man wants to ban openly gay displays of affection, it's because _he_
wants to play king. The fact that others share his sentiment is irrelevant.

Clearly, Zach isn't alone in his bullying views or attitudes, but it doesn't
matter. If anything, it makes it worse.

------
babayetu
"People should be allowed to express any opinion, as long as I agree with it."

------
unimpressive
[Exactly whatever hateful thing I wanted to say anyway.]

\- Anonymous

------
znmeb
Zack, just off the top of my head, I'd say you're feeding a troll. Don't.

------
hacker789
I know it's easy to suspect that Zach sees the irony in what he's saying, but
he doesn't. I know he doesn't. I've stumbled across far too many people like
him at my university to believe that he is merely using satire.

He really does believe that he welcomes an open discussion, despite (in the
same breath) calling for all of us to exhile and ruin the professional life of
anyone who dares to disagree with him.

These are the same types of people who salivate at the thought of burning
"counter-revolutionaries" alive.

I hope you grow up, Zach, And I say that as someone younger than you.

