

Better than Lorem Ipsum - ggwicz
http://classicipsum.com/

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viraptor
Isn't the idea of Lorem Ipsum that it shouldn't be a real English text? That
it should fill the space without distracting with real meaning?

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tripzilch
Yes, that's exactly what Lorem Ipsum is intended for.

While I can imagine there being some usecases in which you'd want to actually
test the _readability_ of some design and maybe provide some text that a user
can actually read, in most cases you don't and you use Lorem Ipsum to keep the
client from reading the text.

One thing you definitely _don't_ want to do, during the design phase, is
putting text there that is almost but not quite a finished version of what is
actually going to be there. Because that way you guarantee that the client
will be reading the text and (even involuntarily) come up with all sorts of
things that are slightly wrong about the text and could be improved, which is
all very useful (maybe), but not if you're looking for feedback on the
_design_ , which is when you use Lorem Ipsum filler.

That said, there may be a few use cases where this "meaningful but unrelated"
filler is appropriate, but it's most definitely not "better" than Lorem Ipsum.
Nor is "Lorem Ipsum is lame" a valid criticism in these use cases.

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ggwicz
You are coming from the stance that content, i.e. words, is separate from the
design around it. I'm saying this is bullshit and that words/content are the
_most important parts_ of the design.

Using a fake language and text that you don't read takes away from that. Even
using my classicipsum.com generator kind of takes away from that; but it takes
away from it on a smaller level. I try to use the actual content and copy for
a site, but that's not always possible (like I said, for example, when I'm
making a WordPress theme). Hence classicipsum.com

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andrewfelix
Clients natural inclination will be to read the dummy text. Lorem ipsum is
unreadable, that's what makes Lorem Ipsum great.

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ggwicz
Users' natural inclination is to read a site's content, as well. Why not
design with that same behavior in mind?

What you're saying is that a site's design purpose is to get people to read
content; so build the site using unreadable text so that you don't have to be
aware of that purpose...I disagree, and made this little site for me and
anyone else who wants more than pseudo-Latin nonsense that objectifies
content.

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andrewfelix
I understand your rationale, and it's a great tool you've built. But I don't
see how you can say that your text _'objectifies content'_. You seem to be
confusing readability and legibility. Lorem Ipsum is unreadable in so much as
it has no meaning. However it's perfectly good at communicating legibility.
Adding abstract and unrelated meaning to dummy text does not objectify the
content or add any value. IMO it does the opposite as it adds an unnecessary
distraction and creates an association with what is probably an unrelated
subject.

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ggwicz
I feel that adding abstract meaning to content _does_ objectify the content
(in our case, using Lorem Ipsum). I speak English and work with English
speakers. The text from classicipsum is only a _better_ option than Lorem
Ipsum, it is not ideal; but for us English speakers, the actual English
content, in my opinion, catches the eye more realistically. Even the way
English is structured, with commas, clauses, punctuation, etc., is captured
better in actual English than in a pseudolatin language.

To me it just seems that if you're designing a site for predominantly English
visitors, you wouldn't use Polish or Spanish or German text in the design. Yet
we use gibberish Lorem Ipsum because well, hey, that's what that other
designers do. It just seems wonky to me...

On the other hand, I am working with people in the Netherlands right now. For
the _Dutch_ version of their site, I used _Dutch_ content.

It just makes more sense to me. Every language has its own quirks and using
real content, _especially_ from literature, captures form and matches reality
more than a fake language.

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andrewfelix
_"Yet we use gibberish Lorem Ipsum because well, hey, that's what that other
designers do"_

I explained why I use Lorem Ipsum, and that clearly was not the reason.

I appreciate the detailed responses, but don't misconstrue my argument.

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ggwicz
That statement was not in reference to you; I'm referring to the fact that
Lorem Ipsum is just a popular thing to do. Many people don't think about it
like you are and simply do it because the design crowd at large does it.

