
Ask HN: Any resource on how to repair MacBook logic board? - jklein11
My macbook won&#x27;t turn on and I am afraid that it is a logic board issue. In other times I think I would be shopping for a new laptop but I am thinking that with the quarantine I have some time to try and fix it myself. I am watching some videos on how to debug the circuit board issues[1] and I am wondering if anyone has any personal experience doing this. Any resources you could share in how to get started would be greatly appreciated!<p>1. https:&#x2F;&#x2F;boards.rossmanngroup.com&#x2F;Boardrepairsbymodel
======
ericabiz
I run independent repair shops for a living, and we do board-level repair.

In general, when training techs I tell them to start with the easiest possible
solution and work up from there. Since MacBooks are so heavily-integrated (so
much is on the logic board), it’s the last place I look.

First order of MacBook repair when it won’t turn on: Start with a SMC reset.
It usually doesn’t fix the problem, but occasionally it does. (If it does, I
don’t charge the customer.)

Second step: Try a known-good battery. It is more commonly a battery issue
than a logic board issue.

Third: Inspect the board for signs of water damage.

With PC laptops (and in general, laptops that are easier to repair), there are
more steps here. But with MacBooks, this is about it.

We fix MacBook logic boards, but I would also recommend Tim Herrman over at
[https://www.tcrscircuit.repair/](https://www.tcrscircuit.repair/) for logic
board repair. He has a YouTube channel where he talks a lot about MacBook
logic board repair as well, and he’s been on Louis Rossman’s channel a few
times too.

~~~
jasonv
Maybe you can shed some light on this: I recently took my older (7 years)
MacBook Air in to Apple to get a new battery. They charged me $129. It’s a
great laptop, was happy to do it.

When they returned it, the had also replaced the main board too for free.

So, aside from the SSD, a new machine.

What would be a typical reason for this?

(I can’t imagine any Dell or Lenovo feeling so solid after 7 years... have had
both at various jobs in times past.)

~~~
Yetanfou
> I can’t imagine any Dell or Lenovo feeling so solid after 7 years...

I'm using a ~14yo Thinkpad T42p as one of my daily machines (using it to write
this post), it feels as solid as when it was new. The battery still holds
enough power for about 1.5-2 hours, the (1600x1200) screen still outperforms
most newer models due to its relatively high resolution and 4:3 ratio, the
keyboard is far better than that on most other machines (especially compared
to Macbooks). The only substantial upgrade I made to this machine is that I
put in a(n) SSD (through a PATA-SATA adapter since this machine is from before
the shift to SATA).

------
Elv13
[https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup](https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup)

But be warned, repairing a Pentium desktop motherboard and repairing a recent
Apple laptop are 2 different leagues. I did repair a lot of capacitors /
magic_smoke on old desktop/vintage motherboards. You just need an acceptable
soldering iron (with real temperature control, not just any junk), a tabletop
EE heatgun (not the ones looking like a hair drier), a solder suction pump,
your eyes and your nose.

However for modern laptops, you need a digital oscilloscope, logic analyzer,
microscope, large reflow oven, vacuum chamber a dozen screw drivers and 5-15k$
worth of professional tools. Good luck with that. In my case, I can't even get
my hands steady enough to do the smaller surface mount jobs. There is some
wizards on the net who did it so many time they can do away with half of the
tools, but unless you did it 500x time on the same model, you wont.

~~~
jdboyd
A number of top apple repair places, like Rossman repair group and iPad rehab,
clearly do not use an oscilloscope, logic analyzer, reflow oven, or vacuum
chamber on any if the repairs I've seen. You do need a reasonably good
soldering iron, hot air tool, multimeter and magnification. The most used
tools could probably be assembled in cheaper starter form for $1k, but some
repairs would only need a subset of those. And Rossman repair guides will step
you through anything that can be done with the smaller art of tools.

I don't know how stay or not your hands are. I've learned that you don't need
rock steady hands for most fine hand soldering, but you likely would need them
for putting dmm or oscilloscope probes on fine features. I find that good
magnification makes it easier to steady my hands.

~~~
Nextgrid
A multimeter (even a dollar-store one) a very good starting point to see which
components have power and can detect issues like shorts on the board. In most
of Louis Rossmann's videos he doesn't go further than multimeter + visual
examination of the board to figure out which components are bad (or where to
start at least).

~~~
Elv13
That's the "there is some wizard in the Internet that did it so many time they
can get away with half the tools" part ;). The vacuum chamber is also required
only for ipad/iphone/touchbar/apple_watch, not most macbooks.

IMHO, most of these projects end up with "I will totally do this" -> "I am
blocked for now, but will come back to this tomorrow" -> "I don't want to lose
parts, so I will put the pieces in a plastic bag and 4 ziplocks" -> "I need to
move this out to clean my desk" -> "2 years pass" -> "what is that bag, oh, my
broken laptop" -> "I will never finish this, there is some room in the trash I
need to fill".

/me Looking in from of me and my old ThinkPad W541p stares back at me in
pieces. (and yes, I dismantled it yesterday to replace the screen cable and
cooling unit. Only to find out the new cooling unit has the wrong connector
and fan voltage scaling despite being "a factory part for the W540p")

edit: The last time I did a MBP board was my 2007 Santa Rosa 15". I actually
_did_ reflow the GPU with a heat gun, but this was very scary. You move even a
tiny bit and kiss the board goodby. I wish I had a reflow oven (I still don't
have one big enough). BGA reflows are a nightmare.

~~~
larossmann
An oscilloscope is a waste here besides for teaching purposes where a visual
representation of what you're trying to get across eases understanding. Logic
analyzer is over the top too. It's one of those things where by the time you
understand the output of your logic analyzer, you already have enough of a
brain to solve the problem without it

I can give someone who doesn't know how to fix a board in an oscilloscope and
they will see strange little vibrations show up when they poke the probe in
different parts of the board, but then what?

------
throwlaplace
i just recently (last month) repaired my mbp logic board (screen backlight
circuit issue). i had very little experience (have never even taken a circuits
class) but i was able to successfully perform the repair (with a little help).

the first step is obviously to get a multimeter (which you probably already
have).

the second and thirds steps are to get the boardview and schematics for your
logic board

1\. boardviewer [http://boardviewer.net/](http://boardviewer.net/)

2\. boardview and schematics files [https://www.apple-schematic.se/board-
ids/](https://www.apple-schematic.se/board-ids/)

the boardview shows you all of the traces on the board and the schematics
match components with labels on the boardview (resistor/capacitor values and
IC numbers).

once you have these things you can try to debug your issue. i did this buy
watching a lot of louis's videos and googling (my issue happened to be common
but yours might be as well). i narrowed my problem down to the brightness
step-up circuit by finding a ground fault where the shouldn't have been one. i
then ordered replacement capacitors from
[https://www.mouser.com/](https://www.mouser.com/) (guessing that the
dielectric probably broke down on one of them) for all the caps on the circuit
an the fuse (values for which i found in the schematics).

the hardest part was actually desoldering/soldering existing caps because
they're surface mount (as almost all of the components of modern logic boards
are). for this you need a "hot air rework station" \- quite an expensive tool.
luckily i'm still in school and found someone in my ECE department that not
only had one but was pretty handy with it. he did the desoldering and then i
did the soldering. when the screen lit up both of us were pretty shocked the
operation had worked :) anyway i can't give much more advice than this because
i got pretty lucky! but there are forums where you can ask questions and
people do discuss these things (louis also has a discord
[https://discord.gg/kPTwD3](https://discord.gg/kPTwD3) where you can get more
real time advice from various people). good luck!

~~~
jklein11
This is awesome! Thanks for the motivation story!

I am out of school for a few years so I don't think I'll be able to get access
to an ECE department. Any idea what the model is?

~~~
Yetanfou
I've been using an Aoyue 968+ [1] combined hot air/soldering station for a
number of years now to repair equipment (phones, monitors, laptops, whatever
happens to break down). The thing costs around €170 in Europe, I got mine for
$125 straight from China (through Taobao) about 3 years ago. There are plenty
of other choices on the market but this is the one I have experience with.

[1] [https://www.aoyue.eu/aoyue-soldering-hotair-rework-
desolderi...](https://www.aoyue.eu/aoyue-soldering-hotair-rework-desoldering-
station-preheater-repairing/aoyue-rework-station-multitools-hotair-smt-hotair-
soldering-iron-pcb/aoyue-int968a-repairing-station-hot-air-soldering-
station-3in1-with-tweezer.html)

~~~
jklein11
Thanks! I'll check it out!

------
jamespetercook
I recently repaired the logic board on my 2013 MacBook Air by baking it in the
oven to reflow the solder. I thought I was being trolled when I first came
across the advice on a forum but it worked! However the fix only lasted around
2 weeks before the issue came back and the laptop wouldn’t turn on anymore.
Now I’m probably going to buy a second hand logic board off eBay and swap it
out, they look to be selling for around £100

~~~
tmaly
I have a 2013 MBP that just dies randomly. I am curious if there was ever an
issue. It seems Apple never disclosed anything on this model.

I took it to Apple twice and they could not figure out the problem.

------
lathiat
It can sometimes be a much simpler issue. For example twice a connector came
off on my 2012 MacBook Pro that meant it wouldn’t power on. Both times Apple
reseated it for me for free. Although sadly Apple stores aren’t open right
now.

With regards to board repair though that certainly happens quite a bit and if
you wanted to understand that better I’d suggest watching Louis rossmans
videos on YouTube.

------
irjustin
Can you give some context as to why you believe it's a logic board issue? And
things you've tried to get it running again?

As others have mentioned, macbook logic boards are basically the hardest out
there in the consumer world. Was it a spill? spark? Localized? which part is
damaged?

~~~
jklein11
I guess I am just jumping to conclusions but this article seems to describe
the behavior I am seeing[1]. Here is some more context:

This is a 13 in Early 2015 Macbook Pro (A1502.) My laptop was working until
the battery died earlier today(so this didn't happen immediately after a spill
but I also have not been the most careful when it comes to this laptop). I
plugged it in and pressed the power button and I still just get black screen(I
don't even hear any fans starting or anything like that.) The charging
indicator is orange which makes me think that the battery is functional. When
I do a SMC restart the indicator changes from orange to green for a few
seconds and then turns back to orange. I have tried plugging the laptop into a
monitor to rule out an issue with the screen, but still no signal on the
monitor. Are there any other diagnostic tests you can recommend until I can
open the laptop up?

1.[https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/385224/Won't+turn+on+but...](https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/385224/Won't+turn+on+but+battery+charged).

~~~
irjustin
Agreed it's not very promising.

Tried any of the other boot modes (safe mode[0])? Startup disk selector[1]?
recovery mode[2]?

[0] [https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201262](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201262) [1] [https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT202796](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202796) [2]
[https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201314](https://support.apple.com/en-
us/HT201314)

~~~
jklein11
Unfortunately, I don't even get to the point where I can pick which disk to
boot from. When I hit the power button nothing happens.

~~~
irjustin
Yeah figured it was like that.

At this point, I can only recommend waiting until apple stores reopen to get a
proper diagnostic done.

Best of luck.

------
neonhat
You're being a bad customer. This isn't how it works. When it breaks, you take
it to the Apple Store and pay your dues. Apple will not succeed if people like
you try to game the system.

------
geuis
Can’t offer any resources on home repair, but I’ve used Rossman’s service
before with good results.

------
ZenPsycho
i would have thought miniaturisation would make this basically impossible
without thousands of dollars of specialist equipment. I’ve never known a mac
repair shop to do anything other than replace the whole bosrd. the thing is
smaller than a raspberry pi.

spend enough time on hacker news and you’ve seen many srticles complaining
specifically about how unrepairable macs are. especially newer ones, that
cryptographically brick themselves if they detect tampering.

~~~
larossmann
>I’ve never known a mac repair shop to do anything other than replace the
whole bosrd.

I'm definitely firing my marketing guy...

~~~
raihansaputra
Any chance you know any repair place with great board repair capability around
South East Asia? My MBA 2011 is alive without battery, screens and everything
work fine. But the previous repair shop jumped something in a weird way and my
backlight doesn't come on with battery plugged in. It's been sitting still for
4 years..

