
Why time stands still at 9:42 on iPhone/iPad ads - spif
http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/59824
======
tobtoh
I think one of the reasons for Apple's famed 'ease of use' is because they do
put a lot of attention to the details.

When I read stories like this one, it it reminds me of the story about Van
Halen and the 'no brown M&Ms clause' in their contracts
(<http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/vanhalen.asp>). Both are indicators that
someone/a business is paying attention to the details.

~~~
elblanco
And yet....<http://fontfeed.com/archives/ipad-typography/>

~~~
tptacek
And yet what, a typography blog disagrees with Apple's type choices? How
slipshod of Apple.

~~~
elblanco
The point is that having some kind of reason for the clock's time in
advertisements elicited all kinds of oohs and ahhs from the Apple fanboy
crowd, "wow, no wonder everything Apple puts out is made out of unicorn farts,
if they are this careful about this kind of insignificant detail."

And yet typography, one of Apple's _most_ important differentiators, the one
that put them on the map, that sustained the company for years among the
graphic artist and desktop publishing industry, and probably one of the most
important reasons the company is around today and didn't die off in the 90's,
is in shambles on theses platforms. In other words, Apple cares about the
_appearance_ of attention to detail without actually caring about the actual
substance. And as the blog post notes, Microsoft of all companies has actually
taken some time and effort to improve their typography. Sure, Microsoft's font
efforts are not nearly up to Apple's old standards, but then again, neither is
Apple (as we see).

So long as people like yourself continue to overlook these kinds of
differentiators, Apple will continue to de-emphasize them in their development
efforts and instead appeal to the people who care about things being shiny
than actually well thought out.

They may as well just fire the entire development staff and release a block of
pyrite and sell it for $1200 at Best Buy. It will be released at a keynote,
with a list of bulleted features. The inability to do anything with it will be
one of those bullets. Fanboy blogs will carry on slavishly for years about how
Apple carefully designed their pyrite product to fit the lifestyles of real
people like them. And that the missing features, like actually doing anything,
are the result of careful design activities by Jonathan Ive. Breathless
commercials touting the shape of the block, how it just "fits" in the palm of
your hand and was polished to a perfect shine by teams of Iraqi orphans, and
how Jonathan Ive had a revelation and realized that it "should just be all
bezel" will air during the Superbowl and the Olympics, "iPyrite, think shiny."

It will be followed a year later with a 50% price reduction and a new version
at $1400, in an ever so slightly differently shaped block, and have a dazzler
light attachment you can buy at the Apple store for $39.99. It'll be called
the iPyrite 2GS. Some people will try to "jailbreak" their iPyrites by just
shooting themselves up directly with heroin and bleach. But Apple will spend
%20-30 of their revenue funding police departments and counter drug
authorities to lock those people up.

Fanboy blogs will carry on asking questions like why anybody would want to
jailbreak their iPyrite. It's clearly the best product in the mineral class.
Jailbreaking will just ruin Apple's carefully designed user experience
ecosystem and make Jonathan Ive (yes you have to say his full name every time)
cry.

~~~
tptacek
I stopped reading when I saw "typography, one of Apple's _most_ important
differentiators". I may be living in a fantasy world, but it's clearly not the
same world you're living in.

~~~
elblanco
Perhaps. I remember a time, of about a good decade or so, where the only
places you saw Macs were in graphic design and desktop publishing shops,
schools and movies (in that order). And the sole reason for that was that the
Mac had excellent typography and WYSIWYG to printer support. Astoundingly good
as a matter of fact.

~~~
tptacek
There was also a time when Macs used m68k. Apple in 2010 is not Apple in 1990.

Apple still has excellent typography. They're simply no longer objectively
better than Microsoft --- at typography. At design in general, they're still
destroying everyone else.

If there's a branch of design that _is_ one of Apple's " _most_ important
differentiators", it's industrial design. It isn't typography. If it was,
Apple would spend the infinitessimal percentage of the huge amount of money
they've banked to design a couple typefaces.

The article you're citing is also over-the-top. There are some real
typographic nits in it, but there's also overt nonsense, like the idea that
Apple is selecting its typefaces because they want to avoid licensing fees.

~~~
elblanco
Look, either they are hyper focused on an attention to detail or they are not.

The time stamp on the ads was held up as evidence that they are, with
breathless replies agreeing to that effect.

And yet when somebody points out area where that attention to detail is
slipping, tptacek and friends comes along and dismisses an entire sustaining
legacy of the company. "Fonts are stupid, who needs 'em anyway. Reading is for
suckers."

Wonderful, so attention to detail is only important if it's what they are
currently bothering to focus on. But if they aren't focusing on it, then it's
not important?

I ask that you read and understand the principles of
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning>

~~~
tptacek
Yeah, I said "Fonts are stupid, who needs 'em anyway. Reading is for suckers."
That sounds a lot like me, doesn't it?

If you're only comfortable talking to people who agree with you, why are you
even here?

~~~
elblanco
It totally does. You dismissed the linked article wholesale as nitpicking "The
article you're citing is also over-the-top. There are some real typographic
nits in it...".

What you call nitpicking, I'm calling attention to detail.

I agree with you that their industrial design is top grade. Is it the most
important differentiator? I dunno, anecdotally I don't know anybody that cares
that the baseplate of the new Macbooks is a single piece of machined aluminum.
Are all the buttons in the right places and is it pleasant to use and look at?
I think those are important, and it's amazing how often that's done poorly.

But holding up absolutely meaningless marketing nonsense as a prime example of
why Apple is the superior design shop, principally because it embodies the
concept of "attention to detail" and then completely dismissing something
that's actually important like "can I actually read the text on the screen" is
nonsense. Really, nobody cares that the time is supposed to coincide with the
big reveal at Macworld. But people _do_ care if they put down 500-800 dollars
on an iPad so they could download and read books and the table of contents is
all over the page and they have to stop reading it after 20 minutes because
the typography is a disaster.

We both agree that design is an important factor in product development.

I think we also both agree that attention to detail is an important factor in
product development.

We also both probably agree that there are only so many resources you can
through at a product's design, so compromises have to be made.

This is where we disagree (and this is why places like HN are interesting),
you favor the external design of the product. How it looks on the shelf. Does
it catch the eye of the consumer? You're even ok with letting other aspects of
the product slip if it allows for a bit more time to go into small details of
the packaging. I'm not saying this is bad or dumb or whatnot. But I am making
the argument that you have to at least acknowledge that other areas are
slipping -- something you and other Apple fanboys seem completely unable or
unwilling to do. Basically there are no flaws in what Apple produces. Every
one of Steve Jobs' and Jonathan Ive's babies is born perfect and without flaw.
Anybody who says other than that doesn't "get it", is jealous or is a
nitpicker.

I think that ultimately the utility of the device is more important. I'm
willing to live with a little bit of ugliness in the package if the overall
device is more useful. If I can use it for hours without fatigue, if I can do
useful things I want or need to do with it, etc. If I have to have one more
button on the bezel to accomplish that, that's fine. If I have to have a port
on the back of the device so I can swap batteries, or stick in an SD card or
plug in a usb device, that's okay by me. I don't want those things to diminish
the device, I don't want the extra button slapped haphazardly in the middle of
the screen for example. Or the door to the battery compartment to weigh 2
pounds. But those things are important. To me, and to other users.

Just because there are flaws in a product, does not make a product bad. It
makes the product real. Putting blinders on, becoming an apologist for things
lacking, dismissing valid issues, introduces you to group think, fantastical
thinking, circular reasoning, self justification and fanboydom among other
flaws in thinking; not to critical thinking and objective analysis.

------
oostevo
This isn't entirely related, and it's for a totally different reason, but
analog watches in advertisements almost always read the same thing, too:
10:10.[1]

Supposedly it's because the watch hands form a 'smile', and this is supposed
to evoke feelings of happiness in potential buyers.[2] I'd never noticed it
before, but ever since someone pointed it out to me, I've noticed it in _every
single_ watch ad I've seen.

[1]
[http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/intel/08/01/31_eliandtom2_lg...](http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/intel/08/01/31_eliandtom2_lg.jpg)
[2] [http://www.ubr.com/clocks/frequently-asked-questions-
faq/clo...](http://www.ubr.com/clocks/frequently-asked-questions-faq/clocks-
and-time-faq-10-10-hand-positions.aspx)

~~~
rbritton
Today's woot reaffirms this: <http://www.woot.com/>

~~~
ruchi
One of them shows 10 to 2 still a smiley face though.

------
enjo
After listening to the interview with the SmugMug guy yesterday, and now
this... it's really quite amazing just how deeply Apple thinks about these big
product launches.

The desk has to to be at the perfect angle. The lighting just right. The time
on the device has to by synced.

I'm not really a big Apple fan (I personally have had a lot of trouble with
their products), but I am taking away one important lesson:

When it comes to promoting your product, every single detail is important.

~~~
abstractbill
_I am taking away one important lesson: When it comes to promoting your
product, every single detail is important._

In the SmugMug interview Chris said he doubted anyone had noticed the angle of
the desk. I'm not sure I would take away the same lesson as you to be honest.

~~~
spoondan
But design is as much about "hiding" things incidental to the experience as it
is about calling attention to the things you want people to notice. Subtle
elements of the design may not rise to conscious awareness but still have an
effect on how people perceive the experience.

~~~
abstractbill
_Subtle elements of the design may not rise to conscious awareness but still
have an effect on how people perceive the experience._

Right, the desk orientation _may_ have subconsciously influenced people, for
sure - I'm quite ok with that claim. But nobody knows if it _did_. Hell, it
might have _negatively_ influenced people for all anybody actually knows.

------
ugh
Apple introduced iCal on July 17, 2002. Now guess which date the default icon
shows :)

~~~
ComputerGuru
Ever since 10.5? Today's date.

~~~
Frazzydee
Today's date shows in the dock, but check out the icon in the Applications
folder:
[http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~f2damji/Screen%20shot%202010-04-...](http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~f2damji/Screen%20shot%202010-04-08%20at%205.47.39%20PM.png)

------
siong1987
This might be a bit off topic. If you have read the book "Yes!", the book
mentions that caffeine helps a lot if you try to persuade someone. And, the
effect of caffeine kicks in after about 40 mins you consume it.

In other words, if Apple provides free coffee to all the attendees for the
event, it will be easier for Apple to convince the audience that they just
launch one of the best product in the world about 40mins after the event
starts (when the effect of caffeine kicks in).

<http://www.google.com/search?q=caffeine+40+mins+persuasion>

~~~
mahipal
That's a good observation -- I wouldn't put it past them.

I think the relevant psychological principle is "transfer of excitation."
Apparently it's pretty obscure, but here's an article about it:
[http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/pages/6426/Arousal-
Pr...](http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/pages/6426/Arousal-Processes-
and-Media-Effects.html)

------
JeanPierre
It's quite neat that they work this into the product launch. I was really
hoping the real answer were partly because they've read good literature
though. Some sort of guide for hitchhikers maybe?

