
Red Hat OpenShift.io – Free, end-to-end, cloud-native development - artsandsci
https://www.openshift.io/
======
toddmorey
I wonder if there's a name for this: that impatience and discomfort you feel
about anything new until you understand _what_ it is exactly and what to
compare it to.

Until that question is answered, you have ZERO patience for any marketing you
read: especially fluffy visionary commentary about "digital transformation".
You are quite literally making your readers angry because you are not
answering their questions.

For anyone launching anything:

1\. Make the first goal of your homepage just explaining what the thing is. Be
clear. Be specific. People just want to know how to reason about it.

2\. Show photos, video, or screenshots. (Even if you don't think it's
amazingly sexy.) Seeing the product makes it so much more real.

3\. Compare it liberally with what's out in the market now: this is your
chance to show how it's similar and why it's different. Can be chart or table.

Then and only then, can you move on to how your product improves the lives of
devs, chefs, athletes, etc. who uses it. (But you may not even need to.)

~~~
op00to
> 2\. Show photos, video, or screenshots.

You'll literally be able to demo it yourself for free, on demand, in
production (IF YOU DARE!), within the next few days.

~~~
baijum
There is video link in this blog post:
[https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2017/05/02/announcing-
red...](https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2017/05/02/announcing-red-hat-
openshift-io/)

~~~
pekk
Why would I be digging through Red Hat's blog to find this, and not find it on
the site of the actual thing itself?

------
smikhanov
What is this product about? I clicked "Learn more" and was greeted by a sweet,
juicy corporate-speak ([https://www.openshift.io/end-to-
end.html](https://www.openshift.io/end-to-end.html)):

    
    
        Digital transformation is about evolving into a technology
        business in order to compete in the digital economy.
        Businesses can’t transform without relying on the developer
        to implement the transformation strategy and deliver value.
    

Mmm... tasty!

~~~
geodel
I think with some stake-holdering it can synergize the democratization of
orchestrated micro-services cloud.

~~~
StavrosK
That's old school, you didn't transform a single thing.

------
alexk
OpenShift is a great PaaS that brought a lot of innovation and improvements to
Kubernetes, congrats team on the awesome and useful product!

Here are just some of the influences of OpenShift on Kubernetes that I'm aware
of:

* RBAC model ([https://github.com/kubernetes/features/issues/2#issuecomment...](https://github.com/kubernetes/features/issues/2#issuecomment-222202448))

* Kubernetes notion of namespaces was largely influenced by RedHat and Open Shift team experiences in the enterprise AFAIK

* Continuous ongoing work by RedHat team on both OpenShift and Kubernetes on the security and performance ([https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/issues/12742](https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/issues/12742))

I'm sure there are many more improvements to Kubernetes to OpenShift that I'm
not aware of.

------
shadowmint
So... it's like a poorly explained PaaS which is:

    
    
        - An IDE  
        - A platform for running containers
        - A set of productivity and collaboration tools
        - CI service
        - Deployment tools
    

...all in one?

Really? I'm scratching my head over this one.

I really respect the work RedHat do, but there's this idea of picking one
thing and doing it well... but heck, I mean, you can also just do _everything_
as well, and hope one bit or another sticks I guess.

? ...but why would you? How can you expect to offer _all_ of that at any kind
of acceptable level of quality?

Why would I pick this up? It feels like if you do, you're basically going to
play in some walled garden where the rules might change at any time, and
you'll be out in the cold when they do.

~~~
jldugger
Last I checked, OpenShift was comparable to Heroku.

~~~
jacques_chester
Not quite. OpenShift 3 is oriented around containers as the unit of deployment
and operations. Heroku pioneered the buildpacks model.

I believe OpenShift has a buildpack-like onramp now, I am not qualified to
name it or describe it.

Deis takes the Heroku buildpacks from upstream and so is more-or-less plug
compatible with Heroku. Cloud Foundry does something similar, though with
extra wrapping to allow it to work smoothly in disconnected environments. Some
of those buildpacks are being rewritten, but I expect they'd be compatible
with Deis too.

Disclosure: I work on Cloud Foundry for Pivotal. I've been on CF Buildpacks
twice.

------
tyingq
Can someone explain what's new here? Openshift has existed for a while, right?

Edit: Thanks. Feels like better wording on the page would have helped. "Online
IDE" or something. Or rolling screenshots that show what it does, like Cloud9
has.

Or maybe I'm too old to grok all this new cloud terminology.

~~~
maxandersen
disclaimer: I work on openshift.io, and there will be much more coming out as
summit goes on so I can't refer to more than in current news:

From [https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/red-hat-
unvei...](https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/red-hat-unveils-end-
end-cloud-native-development-environment-red-hat-openshiftio)

    
    
      Team Collaboration
      Agile Planning
      Developer Workspace Management
      Application Coding and Testing
      Runtime Stack Analysis
      Continuous Integration and Delivery
    

thus it is more than "just" an online IDE in the traditional sense of an IDE,
i.e. Eclipse Che is just one part of it.

All of it running on and targeting OpenShift.

Hope that helps.

~~~
btbytes
I have an OpenShift account and now I'm shown an "additional action needed"
page on login. When i complete it and hit submit, it tells me that email
already exists.

Not at all pleasant :(

~~~
luciddreamz
I'll see if we can get a fix pushed out for this today/ASAP. The issue
currently occurs when you have multiple Red Hat accounts that use the same
email address (or a sub-addressed version of the same email address, like
"chris@gmail.com" and "chris+123@gmail.com".

~~~
thanksgiving
> I'll see if we can get a fix pushed out for this today/ASAP. The issue
> currently occurs when you have multiple Red Hat accounts that use the same
> email address (or a sub-addressed version of the same email address, like
> "chris@gmail.com" and "chris+123@gmail.com".

Is this a special case for Google mail or do you assume foo+bar@example.domain
is the same as foo@example.domain ? Why?

~~~
luciddreamz
It's an abuse prevention mechanism. We do not permit users to have multiple
OpenShift Online accounts. See 2.1 in the OpenShift Online terms of service:
[https://www.openshift.com/legal/terms.html](https://www.openshift.com/legal/terms.html)

"You may not (or permit third parties to) create multiple accounts or
otherwise access the Services in a manner that is intended to avoid Fees or to
circumvent maximum capacity thresholds for the Services."

~~~
noja
Then it's a bug right? The uniqueness check should be based on the part before
the + sign.

~~~
thanksgiving
No, I don't think what google does is standard behavior (not trying to say
anything bad about Google; I love Google). However, as far as I know,
disallowing + is not a particularly good way of preventing abuse. I won't go
as far as to say it semms like bad code but it is pretty close.

I think it is OK to make a special case for Gmail and Google mail but it is
counterproductive to try to crown it as a de facto standard.

[http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/User:Me_at_work/plushaters?use...](http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/User:Me_at_work/plushaters?useskin=oasis)

~~~
noja
huh? Google's special behaviour is that they are blind to dots in the user
part of the address.

The + sign is not anything to do with Google.

~~~
thanksgiving
Oh I didn't know. Just found
[https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5233](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5233)
after trading what you wrote.

I just assumed + is a valid character and a+b@example.domain would be a valid
email address independent of a or b. But it seems we shouldn't allow + or --
when people sign up for a new email address?

------
sbose78
Folks, check out the TechCrunch article on the announcement :

[https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/02/red-hat-launches-
openshift...](https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/02/red-hat-launches-openshift-io-
an-online-ide-for-building-container-based-applications/?ncid=rss)

It will answer a lot of questions :)

------
cube00
Can't even sign up, not a great first impression for something that I will
have to answer to my customers when it doesn't work, but it's free so I have
no right to complain right?

Service Unavailable - Zero size object

The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again
later. Reference #15.4789fea5.1493742308.9b867eb

Internal Server Error - Read

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to
complete your request. Reference #3.5689fea5.1493742329.8e1cbf2

~~~
op00to
I signed up no problem.

------
aemadrid
the dumbest authentication process I've ever seen. I can't remember my
password. Click forgot password. Click on email. Enter screen to change my
password. Submit and it tells me it needs more information. Type more
information. Complains the email already exists. Obviously, I'm resetting it.
PRetty stupid.

~~~
ironcladlou
We've pushed a fix for the duplicate email issue. Please give it another try.

------
srikrishna-osio
openshift.io (please watch .io) is a complete cloud native development
environment for organizations, having work spaces created for collobaration,
IDE with Eclipse Che, complete build, pipelines along with analytics to
deliver actionable insights to the developer for choosing the right software
components. All this happens in a Browser..

------
harrymower
I run the group at Red Hat responsible for OpenShift.io and our developer
program. We really value the feedback and the comments on this thread. I
admit, we could have done a much better job explaining the product on the
site.

Based on everyone’s feedback, we redid the homepage last night. We hope this
does a better job explaining the benefits and why you would want to try
OpenShift.io. Please give it a look and let us know how we did.

I know there are a lot of people who want to give OSIO a try. We will be
onboarding customers as soon as we can. We are putting in the finishing
touches and ramping our capacity to meet the demand. We will be keeping
everyone updated on our progress through email, twitter (@rhdevelopers) and
our developer blog -
[https://developers.redhat.com/blog](https://developers.redhat.com/blog)

------
steevenwee
I remember I was really excited about cloud9 online IDE, but it took me about
an hour to get back to usual development. So let's give this one a try and go
back to usual ones :)

------
7ewis
Here's a video demo of OpenShift.io by Red Hat:

[https://vimeo.com/215402513/02867b4aea](https://vimeo.com/215402513/02867b4aea)

------
blfr
Has anyone signed up for the preview? I keep getting "We're sorry, but
something went wrong." right after logging in.

~~~
JorgeGT
I'm stuck in and endless loop of "We need you to provide some additional
information in order to continue." and "Email already exists. Log In".

~~~
sbose78
Hey! Sorry about that, we are working on fixing the problem for folks who had
an existing OpenShift account. Tracked it here:
[https://github.com/openshiftio/openshift.io/issues/134](https://github.com/openshiftio/openshift.io/issues/134)

------
thenewwazoo
I can't figure out what this actually _is_ , past all the marketing speak.
Picking the first box on the homepage ("cloud-native development experience")
gave me no actual information about that experience entails. Yes, yes, it will
unshackle my free time and relieve me of madness, but _how_?

What _is_ it?

C'mon, RedHat. Throw me a bone here.

------
j_s
MVP edition for web site testing posted today by christux:

Show HN: Tux.io – a (now working) Linux desktop in your browser |
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14245447](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14245447)

------
fittingin
How does this work with rkt?

~~~
xkarga00
rkt is still not fully functional as a container runtime for kubelet[1].
kubelet is the underlying daemon used by Kubernetes and OpenShift for running
containers. I am not sure if and when rkt will reach feature parity with the
docker runtime but once it does, we wouldn't need to do much and enable it in
OpenShift.

[1] [https://kubernetes.io/docs/getting-started-
guides/rkt/notes/](https://kubernetes.io/docs/getting-started-
guides/rkt/notes/)

------
eriknstr
Why do I need to provide my e-mail and create a password when I choose to sign
in with GitHub? First of all they were supposed to be able to retrieve the
e-mail address from GitHub I think, like they did with name and company.
Creating a password should not have been needed at all.

------
dkarapetyan
Tried OpenShift last time and their cartridge model didn't make sense. What
has changed since then?

~~~
yebyen
Literally everything. Cartridges are OpenShift v2, "images" in v3 are
literally the same concept as a Docker image. You can check out this link[1]
for more about what's changed.

My first instinct trying OpenShift v3 Developer Preview was to slap helm on it
and see if I could deploy my Kubernetes projects. Turns out that Helm does not
have much of a security model to speak of, and this was problematic to
enabling support for Helm in OpenShift v3 where multi-tenancy was one of the
concerns they wanted to address right away.

I got with claytonc in the #openshift-dev channel on freenode and he explained
all of this to me, the long story short is that Helm on OpenShift is not well
supported but that you can use it if you are willing to give it a service
account with editor access to the whole cluster and make some other small
changes like setting TILLER_NAMESPACE to something other than kube-system.

Instead, OpenShift basically uses the Kubernetes model with some additional
primitives for deployments and builds. You define a BuildConfig (or let the
point-and-click interface do it for you). Builds produce images, and images go
into an ImageStream. A DeploymentConfig maps deployments to ImageStreams. [2]

The rest of the way down the stack, your deployment looks very similar to a
regular Kubernetes deployment (except it's not using the Kubernetes deployment
primitive, I believe that OpenShift implemented their own formal concept of
Rolling Updates on DeploymentConfig before Kubernetes released the modern
Deployment/ReplicaSet primitives that many k8s users are using for this now.)
It is almost Kubernetes under the hood (but not quite, in subtly incompatible
ways that depending on your size and current level of investment into
Kubernetes, you might have an easy time or a hard time getting over.)

If you're looking for a short list of things that have changed from OpenShift
v2 to v3, there isn't one because they are not really directly related
products other than by name[3].

[1]: [https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-
us/openshift_ente...](https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-
us/openshift_enterprise/3.1/html/release_notes/release-notes-v2-vs-v3)

[2]:
[https://docs.openshift.org/latest/dev_guide/deployments/how_...](https://docs.openshift.org/latest/dev_guide/deployments/how_deployments_work.html)

[3]:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32477650/openshift-v3-vs-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/32477650/openshift-v3-vs-
openshift-v2)

------
jwildeboer
TL;DR in a software defined everything world, Open wins. Use it. Enhance it.
Participate. Disclaimer: Red Hat guy since 12 years.

------
ausjke
It's Redhat, whose focus has always been enterprise the money maker.

Ever since it dumped the desktop years ago, I switched to the deb ecosystem
and never looked back, do not want to have anything to do with
Redhat,including this openshift thing, one reason is for the "dump-the-
desktop"(please don't mention Fedora), another is that, DEB is so much better
than RPM for my daily life.

I also hate the Redhat-intrusively-forced-on-SystemD to my heart.

That been said, I appreciate what Redhat have been doing to the open source, I
guess it is win-win for the community and its own business goals.

~~~
ausjke
By the way, my 2017 wildest forecast: Microsoft may acquire Redhat

~~~
dralley
Red Hat is to some extent protected from acquisition by the ideological poison
pill. Because there's no IP (open source), the value of the company is
basically the engineering talent, which enables the level of service Red Hat
provides. Many of those engineers have very strong opinions about FOSS.

The second a Microsoft (or worse, an Oracle) tried to acquire Red Hat, a huge
portion of that talent would walk out the door.

~~~
nl
No, the value of RH is in the clients they have, just like every enterprise
software company ever.

Oracle is notorious for buying companies for their clients, even if everyone
quits (eg, hostile takeover of Sieble)

