
The jailing of Hong Kong’s young pro-democracy leaders  - tomohawk
https://world.wng.org/2017/09/beijing_s_heavy_hand
======
saucymew
Highly recommend "10 Years" which captures how HK society views the near
future when the Mainland presses their influence.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Years_(2015_film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Years_\(2015_film\))

This is allegedly caused China to block Apple iTunes after carrying "10 Years"
in their catalog. [http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-blocks-apple-itunes-and-
ib...](http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-blocks-apple-itunes-and-ibook-stores-
after-launch-of-ten-years-20160423-godgyz.html)

~~~
eyedeally
> captures how HK society views

I'm not sure if you realize that is a work of fiction based on one person's
opinion, which hardly reflects the view of the "HK society" that you so
grandiosely claimed. Should I take the Hunger Games seriously as capturing how
Western society views the near future?

~~~
mortenjorck
Are you saying The Hunger Games _isn 't_ a valid, as well as popular,
commentary on wealth inequality and Western militarism?

~~~
eyedeally
No. I'm saying Hunger Games isn't a representation of how the "Western
society" as a whole views the collective future.

------
fatjokes
The people of Hong Kong are hardly winning supporters within China. Much is
made of the disdain that Hong Kong people have for Chinese mainlanders, but
less is mentioned that it is equally true in reverse.

There is a commonly held belief (which I haven't researched and thus don't
know if true or not) that they didn't make nearly as much of a ruckus when
they were under British colonial rule, when they were de facto second-class
citizens. As such, the independence/pro-democracy movement is viewed as a
Western-backed attempt to destabilize China, with supporters (generalized to
the whole people of Hong Kong, depending on how many of them you believe
support the movement) viewed as submissives to the West. (If you add in a
racial dimension, where the Hong Kong people are Asians willing to submit to
"whites" while fighting back against other Asians, adds to that disdain).

Any attempts to "help", as some on this thread have suggested, is only going
to help affirm this belief and harden the mainland Chinese stance against Hong
Kong.

~~~
steve19
I am not arguing for British colonization, but were they second class
citizens? I believe they were British Subjects and therefor entitled to all
the rights of any other British subject, or at least that of British subjects
in any other British Dependent Territory.

~~~
tim333
I was in HK for a while under British rule. Us Brits had some advantages. Most
obviously Brits had the right to live and study and the like in the UK whereas
HK Chinese didn't. Also most of the better government funded jobs tended to go
to Brits rather than HK Chinese.

The HK Chinese were however much better off at the time under British rule
than the mainland Chinese were under China's. China was kind of a mess at the
time.

~~~
fatjokes
> The HK Chinese were however much better off at the time under British rule
> than the mainland Chinese were under China's. China was kind of a mess at
> the time.

Perhaps materially, but on principle I don't think anyone would want to be
considered second-class.

~~~
tim333
Most of the mainland Chinese were second-class to the communist party insiders
back then and couldn't even travel around China without special permits.

------
tryingagainbro
Everyone knew it would happen and nothing can really be done (see Tibet). No
one will start a trade or real war with China . They have veto power in UN ad
that makes them powerful. So reality sets in.

Treaties and agreements can be enforced only with smaller nations.

~~~
dukoid
I think there needs to be a discussion about their WTO "market economy" status
(for different reasons though)

~~~
tryingagainbro
>> _I think there needs to be a discussion about their WTO "market economy"
status (for different reasons though) _

Go right ahead--if you have nothing better to do....
[http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/money+talks](http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/money+talks)

------
ksec
I dont know how to put this.

Inequality, is simply the cause of all these problem. That is everything from
Spain, Brexit, US ( Trump ), and Hong Kong.

Housing prices is a big part of it. Because of QE, US has exported inflation
around the world, along with China getting very rich since joining WTO, Pushes
Asset prices to level unheard of.

Now some of you may think all these are irrelevant to the post above. Most
people protest and wanted democracy not because it is a noble thing to do.
They want better living standard, or for Hong Kong they simply want a place to
live. Hong Kong housing prices / income is 50% to double of Vancouver. And
people were calling Vancouver's prices insane.

They wanted their voice to be heard. And then hope some changes are being
made. It was that simple, so they have hope, somewhere along the line in their
future, they have hope some of these issues they have will be resolved.

Look at the world right now, politician in modern world is 10 times worst then
what it was 10 - 20 years ago. They act a lot slower, but thanks to technology
information flow has gotten million times faster. People's patient are wearing
out. What do you expect them to do.

Read this pieces which descirbe the problem, and why some in Silicon Valley
dont get it.

[https://steveblank.com/2017/08/12/working-outside-the-
tech-b...](https://steveblank.com/2017/08/12/working-outside-the-tech-bubble/)

At the end of the post.

I don’t know how the people I listened to and talked to voted, but it’s easy
to see why they might feel as if no one in Washington is living their lives.
And that the tech world is just as distant as Hollywood or Wall Street.

------
virmundi
We knew this going in. We decided to trade human rights and to empower an
authoritarian government for cheap pants and blood-electronics. I’ve prayed
just now, but I did so with a new iPad Pro 12.9” in my lap. I have no idea how
to help.

~~~
paradite
As a Chinese citizen, I would appreciate if you stop thinking about "helping"
us.

Even if you are genuine, it would come across as condescending.

Majority of people in China are happy with their lives, we certainly do not
see the need for help from other countries in the way you wanted to.

Instead, I would suggest you focus on the problems and issues faced in your
own country. In Chinese, there is a saying that "Please take care of your own
backyard, before thinking of cleaning up other people's backyard."

Every country has its own problems, US, Spain, UK and China. Do you see people
from UK offering to help solve gun problems in US? Do you see people from US
offering to help self-determination problem in Spain?

Don't assume you have the moral high ground and Chinese people need your help.
Try to talk to Chinese people and understand their perspective first.

~~~
nailer
I have a very close friend from mainland China and we talk frankly about
politics.

There's a video that went viral on Weibo a couple of months ago.

\- A mainland Chinese girl is destroying HK independence posters at a HK
university.

\- A Honkinese girl admonishes her for destroying the posters, as they are
free speech.

\- The mainland Chinese girl says that free speech means that since the
Honkinese girl can put up posters the mainland Chinese girl can destroy them

\- The HK girl says that the mainland Chinese girl can put up her own posters
if she wishes.

In mainland China, the view is: that the Chinese girl speaks better English
than the HK girl and makes an excellent point about how she's allowed to tear
down the posters if the other girl can put them up because that's what free
speech means.

This isn't ironic, it's what people think and that's why the video was
popular: because the mainland girl spoke great English, made what seems like a
good point, and defended Chinese integrity.

Close friend mentions that re: democracy, the people don't have any will at
all: they don't really engage with politics. It's someone else's job to lead.
You'd want to engage with running the country as much as being a firefighter
or running the sewers.

~~~
cryoshon
>It's someone else's job to lead.

i suppose it's my western point of view that makes me view this sentiment as
blisteringly immature, if that is indeed what most chinese actually think.

the stewardship of your country is always your job as a human being... even if
you deny the responsibility, your country will act on your behalf, which means
that you must control your leadership.

if nobody else is fit to lead, it's your job.

~~~
paradite
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13203027](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13203027)

This summaries my points on the relationship between people and the
government.

~~~
yahna
Quite frankly, seems like are chugging the kool-aid.

If the government is so trustworthy and so eager to please why do they need to
take political prisoners at all?

------
codeisawesome
Huh, there’s a bug on the site, the article is dated “Oct 14 2017”, and I did
a double take and checked the date on my phone.

~~~
wmf
That's not uncommon in paper magazines; presumably that's the date when the
paper issue will be released.

------
leemailll
This piece is more of propaganda than anything.

------
rtpg
>Wong is open about his Christian faith and how it catalyzed his activism
against Beijing’s tightening control over Hong Kong.

Christianity's role in Chinese society is interesting.

There are something like 100 million christians in China, and based off of
stories from friends, a lot of cults in that space as well. A lot of
organizations play off of that. For example multi-level marketing stuff talk a
lot about being children of God in their sessions in China.

Considering how Christianity affects decision-making in the west, I wonder if
this will in fact drive major change politically in China as well.

~~~
fiblye
100 million isn't anywhere close to what I've seen reports of before, and I
can't imagine it being true. Do you have any non-religiously motivated sources
for that claim?

~~~
ajdlinux
Pew Forum estimates 67 million in 2011.
[http://www.pewforum.org/files/2011/12/ChristianityAppendixC....](http://www.pewforum.org/files/2011/12/ChristianityAppendixC.pdf)

------
kevin_b_er
I predict Hong Kong's Basic Law won't last the 50 years. Provides too many
freedoms and human rights to the Hong Kongers.

------
simonebrunozzi
I wish that HN titles were more explanatory - "Beijing's Heavy Hand", it
refers to what?

~~~
virmundi
Heavy handed is an adjective describing overly forceful reaction, often in
policy form. [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heavy-
handed](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heavy-handed)

~~~
reachtarunhere
I think the parent comment meant the missing context of heavy handedness (HK)
in the title.

------
hkmurakami
The article struck me as strangely religious in nature. Then the front page of
the website showed what seemed to be a few more religious issues (assisted
suicide, abortion), related articles as well. Their about page is a wall of
vague text, but one of the main topic categories being "abortion" leads me to
believe this is a news site centering around religious issues?

Would appreciate someone filling me in on what sort of publication this is, if
possible.

~~~
ghomrassen
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_(magazine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_\(magazine\))

------
Astromystic
Ideology, religion and sovereignty pride at their best.

------
Mikeb85
So hundreds were beat up in Catalonia and many here said it was justified.
Spain is sending their army to Catalonia to squash independance there.

Yet everyone jumps on HK for arresting activists who knowingly and
intentionally broke the law...

