
Bankruptcy Filings Surge Among Older Americans - rbanffy
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bankruptcy-filings-surge-among-older-americans-1533641401
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djrogers
Really very surprising that such a long piece doens't seem to mention once
that the current crop of older Americans are teh first generation to live
largely on credit, lived in houses 3x larger than previous generations,
purchased 10x more new cars than previous generations, and have spending
habits that far outstrip anything their progenitors would ever have
considered.

Yes, healthcare costs a lot, and social security pays very little. To previous
generations, such knowledge would have been motivation to spend less and save
more...

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seorphates
Having been peripherally involved with a small handful of that aging crop and
their experiences with "security" I'm not sure you're being entirely fair by
lumping all their ills together because they over-consumed. I'm not sure you
noticed life around you but we're all but force-fed raw, unadulterated
consumerism. Be that as it may, sure, careless spending seems like it would
definitely be a contributing factor - credit where credit is due.

Unless one is a ff rich elder (or at least well above moderately wealthy) the
suction of any wealth is aggressive and unrelenting, especially if any
services are required. Not until someone is totally insolvent do the "real"
safety nets (what's left of them) begin to kick in. If you can't afford your
ever escalating healthcare costs then you will likely not get the care you
need until your assets total $0.00 and you're living ss check to ss check.

There has been and continues to be a sickly draw on any wealth and an
unrelenting hacking away of the security of society as a whole. We are
surrounded by vultures that eat the living in what seems like an "I've got
mine and now I want yours." agenda that does nothing for society, rich or poor
and continues practically unabated.

Bankruptcy seems like a perfectly good, viable and reliable option when
considering the stacked deck.

~~~
aphextron
>We are surrounded by vultures that eat the living in what seems like an "I've
got mine and now I want yours." agenda that does nothing for society, rich or
poor and continues practically unabated.

In other words, Capitalism working as intended.

~~~
seorphates
I suppose, yeah. Maybe that's a valid point in that until we can (want to?)
cordon off core social services (for the whole of society) from the reach of
private capital then we will inherently continue to create and sustain a
market that zeroes in on the truly vulnerable. For example services just like
healthcare including aging with dignity in assisted living after they've
either been taxed out or need help or both.

For that latter part I've witnessed two mind-numbingly ugly siphoning of all
assets to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars a month until assets
are gone and then they're forced out and into pretty sub-optimal situations
and neither of these two examples started off anywhere near the edges of being
poor but they certainly did die that way.

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Kurtz79
Discussion on the same story from NYT, a few days ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17697361](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17697361)

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neonate
[http://archive.is/zHkHC](http://archive.is/zHkHC)

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jkoudys
Everyone here's talking about saving in your youth to afford healthcare in
your old age, but one of the best investments you can make is in your own
health when you're young. A big part of why countries with universal
healthcare often have _smaller_ per-capita budgets for healthcare, is because
a few turn-your-head-and-coughs in your 30s, 40s, and 50s, will benefit you
far more than expensive drugs and procedures in your 60s, 70s, and 80s.

Obviously it's not an either-or decision, and everyone's health declines
eventually, but an efficient economy is all about spending the money where it
will have the highest utility. I see new mothers forgoing checkups on their
kids because their coverage sucks, and I wonder how much more we'll end up
spending when the odd mole, rash, or ache turns into something more serious.

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sigfubar
So, old age for me boils down to two options: waste my savings on "medical
care" designed to swindle me, or eat my gun.

Not a difficult choice at all.

~~~
shakestheclown
Or work on having the means to move to a country with a more sensible health
care system before you reach that point.

~~~
gt_
At 34 now, I hope to.

Can anyone recommend countries that are easy to move to? With urban
environments and culture, without being too expensive for cost of living? I
have tech skills but am not one of the trendy rich engineers. I commit my free
time to art, as it brings me life. Unfortunately, it is increasingly unable to
bring me survival.

~~~
curuinor
Assuming you're American, look up the Dutch-American Friendship Treaty.

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Nelkins
My first thought was, "This is terrible!"

My second thought was "Hm...maybe this means I'll be able to afford a house
after all."

~~~
rconti
I have to admit, when buying a house in the bay area, this was one of my
thoughts of the risks of how housing prices could fall. As the baby boom ages,
downward pressure on housing markets and therefore housing costs.

Whether that's enough to make up for influx of new people from elsewhere in
the country and the world, who knows. And of course, many houses will just be
inherited and turned into rental properties...

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astrodust
No mention of medical costs at all? I'd expect that'd be a driving factor as
even with platinum insurance you're going to be feeling the pinch due to
medication costs, co-pay fees, and other supplies which aren't covered, not to
mention the hassle of dealing with insurance companies.

~~~
hackeraccount
Medicare will pay for medical care - drugs too through Medicare Part D. It
won't pay for long term care. Think nursing home. If you can't pay for that
then the best option is Medicaid. Medicaid is means tested so generally the
people in that situation spend everything they have, declare bankruptcy and
then go on Medicaid.

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monksy
Oph. This is going to be bad for a long time.

I'm not an economist but here are my basic thoughts:

1\. Inflation has caught up to them 2\. The lack of stable planning for those
retiring

This is going to devastate the middle class/lower class in expensive markets
(I.e. CA and NYC where the parents support their kids starting out and in jobs
where they can't sustain their lifestyle without extra support)

~~~
volkl48
I actually think older americans in those expensive markets are relatively
better off, assuming they own rather than rent.

At least at present, their homes are worth a considerable amount. Selling them
off and moving to a comparable or smaller home in a low-cost area can make up
for a significant amount of their failure to save adequately otherwise.

Obviously, that may not always be what they want to do, but at least they have
an asset to work with. Those who are facing the same predicament and already
live in the low-cost area, don't have that option.

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s73v3r_
They were talking about this on 1A last night (NPR). Apparently the average
amount of debt, is something like 3 years worth of wages.

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rtrunck
Does that include mortgage debt?

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kryogen1c
Probably not, since a mortgage is a lien on an asset you can sell for,
assumably, about the cost of the loan.

