
Apple's "benign dictatorship" of the App Store leaves users, devs in the dark. - tnash
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/app-store-enigma-the-patent-holder-the-developer-and-the-voiceless-child/
======
josteink
If Speak for Yourself had developed an app for Android they would have had
_none_ of these problems. None. Zilch. There are several markets. There are
several stores. You can install standalone APKs if you like.

The nature of the platform _protects you_ from the likes of Apple.

That there are options doesn't make Apple any more right here. I'm not saying
that. But there are other platforms than Apple's closed circus. And people
should consider them.

With time I hope people will see that value in an open platform. That these
people, those who have their daughter threatened to be _re-muted_ by Apple,
that they still insist on using Apple's hardware is a mystery to me.

You would at least think that _they_ saw why choosing Apple is fundamentally
wrong for any person who considers himself free. If you're not free to do with
your own property as you please, how much of a free being are you really?

~~~
cube13
>If Speak for Yourself had developed an app for Android they would have had
none of these problems.

No, they would still have the same problem. Google has the killswitch ability.
Amazon and Google do remove applications from the store on a regular basis for
copyright violations.

EDIT: And the ability to install an APK from anywhere still doesn't mean that
they'll be able to keep selling it while the court proceedings are going on.
This problem isn't a technical issue. It's a legal one.

~~~
bad_user

         And the ability to install an APK from anywhere 
         still doesn't mean that they'll be able to keep 
         selling it while the court proceedings are going on.
    

That's bullshit. Sure they can send you a DMCA take-down notice, but if it's
your domain you can use it as toilet paper.

And btw, I haven't seen Google pulling Android from the market in the eve of
Oracle's lawsuit. That's because you are still free to sell your products
until _infringement is actually proved_ !

~~~
cube13
Google didn't pull Android from the market during the lawsuit because the
judge stopped that motion from Oracle.

If PRC made that motion, and the judge allowed it, Speak for Yourself WOULD
have to pull the APK.

~~~
fpgeek
Yes, but actually making that motion and convincing a judge is a lot more work
than just sending a letter (to any or all of Apple/Google/Amazon/etc). That's
one of the important checks and balances in the legal process that PRC was
able to work around (with Apple's help).

------
soup10
I'm still waiting for the lawsuit that forces apple to provide an option to
install unreviewed apps. Nobody would tolerate this kind of total platform
control in OS X or windows. Why is it tolerated in iOS?

It's perfectly fine to have a a curated app store by default, it's not OK when
it's the only option. Especially when your as big as Apple is.

~~~
gwright
While I do agree with some criticisms regarding Apple's management of their
app ecosystem, I'm much more fearful of a legal regime that could step in and
simply dictate the business operations of a private entity.

If you are critical of Apple's 'dictatorship', how can you be comfortable with
the idea that the government is going to wield its power any better? You can
choose not to do business with Apple. Try that with the government.

We aren't talking about public safety, fraudulent behavior, or monopolistic
advantage here. You can even utilize Apple's hardware and ditch their curated
ecosystem if you want (jail break your phone). Nobody is going to stop you.

Running to a lawyer and the courts when you don't _like_ the product offerings
of a private company is absurd.

~~~
wissler
"I'm much more fearful of a legal regime that could step in and simply dictate
the business operations of a private entity."

Which is so unlike the legal regime that backs up that "private" entity when
it uses government granted privilege to keep competitors at bay (such as with
patents and insane copyright legislation).

I would be perfectly fine with having their own little private ecosystem where
they pull the rug out from under developers -- if they would stop trying to
undermine those trying to compete with it via lawsuits, for that would just
mean that they would ultimately learn their lesson. But when the government
stands behind their tyranny over developers, they never learn.

~~~
ashishgandhi
Did you just suggest that, to teach Apple a lesson for protecting granted
patents[1] - which is legal - the government should control what they can and
cannot do with something they created?

[1] If the patent system is good/evil/broken/whatever is a separate argument.
And if the patent system is the problem you fix the patent system, not
something else that isn't related to it.

------
ajross
One side of this story I can't figure out is how _wildly bad_ Apple's PR has
been. They refused to comment for this story. Seriously? I can understand how
this happened (it's just an app, there's a plausible lawsuit, pull it). But
once that little girls face went up... ?

Apple is in no danger here. They can just say "On further review, the
plaintiff's case is not as strong as we thought; we'll wait for the courts to
decide and eagerly await their decision.". But there's nothing from them at
all. They didn't put the app back up, they didn't issue a statement. They
wouldn't even talk to Ars about this story. What's going on in there? This is
a PR disaster.

So... what would Steve have done?

~~~
tptacek
He would have waited for the drama to mostly blow over, and then, if they made
a decision to put a stake in the ground over the story, would have written a
plain-English 3 paragraph letter published on their website about what Apple's
strategy moving forward regarding the issue would be.

Most of the time, though, Apple just doesn't get involved in stuff like this.
What's in it for them? It's not actually a PR disaster for Apple; if anything,
from a coldly calculated perspective, this is good PR for Apple.

~~~
cube13
>What's in it for them? It's not actually a PR disaster for Apple; if
anything, from a coldly calculated perspective, this is good PR for Apple.

That's pretty much it. There's basically nothing they could say or do that
works out for them in either the long run or short run.

If they leave it up after the C&D/DMCA/whatever complaint, they could be sued.
If they make a statement that's remotely in support of PRC's case, the story
suddenly isn't PRC vs. Speak for Yourself, it's Apple vs. a little girl. If
they make a statement in support of Speak for Yourself, it's suddenly PRC vs.
Apple. None of those outcomes are positive PR. While the third is a feel-good
move, it doesn't actually do anything positive with the case.

It's in Apple's best interest to just pull the app and stay silent until the
courts decide the case.

~~~
ajross
> If they leave it up after the C&D/DMCA/whatever complaint, they could be
> sued.

Sure, that's a risk (though probably a small one: they _know_ the revenue this
app is producing, so they know what the maximum likely damages will be -- this
certainly doesn't look like a big market to me). Bad PR is a risk too (I mean
really: did you _see_ that girl's face? You seriously aren't sympathetic? You
think no one else is?). Why'd they take it down if they were going to "stay
silent"?

~~~
cube13
>Bad PR is a risk too (I mean really: did you see that girl's face? You
seriously aren't sympathetic? You think no one else is?). Why'd they take it
down if they were going to "stay silent"?

I really am sympathetic to her, and that's the problem for Apple. PRC's
actions, while they may be legal and proper, just don't feel right after
reading that story.

It's an intensely emotional story. It's hard not to feel that Apple and PRC
are the "bad guys" here. Apple's actions could be, at from a purely
unemotional and logical view, be defended as a proper response to the
situation. PRC's suit could have merit. But because of the emotional baggage,
the moment Apple makes a statement defending or explaining their actions, the
story absolutely changes from "PRC sues Speak for Yourself, and little girl is
caught in the crossfire" to "Apple vs. little girl".

Apple cannot win that. Nobody can.

------
applelovesme
I got sued once in a similar way, for an app a competitor claimed copied their
UI and violated trade dress, copyright etc. Apple didn't pull our app though,
and it seems so fraught that Apple is making legal judgments both ways.

Our competitor sent a complaint to Apple, so we re-assured Apple, sued the
complaining company, they counter-sued, and eventually settled.

The suit cost about 20k and we made minor changes to the app UI as a result.
Waste of time and money for everyone.

Throwaway account and no other details because I'm under NDA.

~~~
robterrell
I've posted here about my similar case before. I spent easily as much on
lawyers fighting a frivolous copyright claim against my app, and after
initially prevailing, the other guy simply moved jurisdictions and started
over. This was two years ago, so things might have changed, but Apple was
patient and did _not_ pull my app while the legal process was in motion.

------
Karunamon
That's the one thing that bugs me most about Apple. Not the kill switch, not
the pricing, but the complete and total lack of objective transparency on the
app store. Would it _absoulutely kill them_ to come out with some hard and
fast rules? It's not that difficult.

~~~
induscreep
Edit: here's a copy of the actual rules
[http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/app-store-
guide...](http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/app-store-
guidelines.pdf)

~~~
Karunamon
Those are guidelines, not rules, and they're rather ambiguous in many places.

~~~
kolinko
Guidelines, but Apple is really sticking with them. When they reject an app,
they always give a reason.

As for the ambiguity - there will always be some.

~~~
mikeash
In the recent Airfoil Speakers flap, they neither stuck to their rules nor
gave a reason.

------
jsz0
As a user it doesn't leave me in the dark. I look at the store 'shelf' and
select what I want. I'm about as interested in the behind the scenes of the
App Store as I would be about how my local grocery store shelves are stocked.
I'm sure it's fascinating I just don't care very much. If they don't have
exactly the type of soup I am looking for I'll probably just get a slightly
different type of soup. At worst maybe I would have to consider shopping at a
different store instead. If they explained to me that they decided not to
carry this brand of soup because sometimes the can explodes and shoots metal
shards in your face I would I actually appreciate their choice to stop selling
it. I don't need soup cans exploding in my face and I don't really have time
to keep up with all the details of how soup cans are made, what the different
types are, which types of cans are the most reliable/safe, etc. I'm fine with
the grocery store handling that for me.

------
Jtsummers
I have never dealt with Apple and the app store, but I have a question for
those who do. Many of the complaints regard transparency and frequency of
communications. Is it a lack of communication on Apple's part? Do your
attempts to initiate communication with them and get status updates or discuss
issues fail? Or do you expect Apple to initiate all communications for you and
they never do?

~~~
duiker101
From my experience any attempt to contact phone support is totally useless and
will not get you anythings. Email support will get instead only not nice
responses. Usually if you contact Apple it's because you have problems,
whatever the reson, missed payments, app rejections etc... you will get only
closed doors from them. I might be drastic but i came to the conclusion that
there is NOTHING in the Apple's "dictatorship" that is benign.

I believe that their behaviour is because they are Apple. They don't need you.
You need them. So or you stick with what they give you or you can leave.
Personally I left. But sadly to make them care one person is not enough. Too
many people are still "blind", or stuck with them and cannot leave.

~~~
Jtsummers
Followup questions then. Do they have a phone line you can use? When you
contacted them were you friendly, terse, unfriendly? Just from my own dealings
with other forms of customer service I've found that most people who find the
support unpleasant, untimely, etc. are terse in their communication. This
isn't the same as unfriendly, it's just blunt and overly concise. Support
folks get so much communication they tend to take it much like being
unfriendly and put them at the bottom of the queue. Sometimes, of course, the
support staff are just unpleasant or slow or bogged down in bureaucracy.

~~~
ioquatix
I've called them, and they've called me several times relating to various
different issues.

They've always been very pleasant and happy to help.

------
abruzzi
I'm just curious, are there any instances of Apple Killing already purchased
apps? I know I still have a 4 year old tethering app. I don't know if it even
works on current versions, but I just haven't deleted it. I still have VLC for
iOS. So it seems like the family's paranoia that apple will kill the already
purchased app overblown.

~~~
xtractinator
Yes, there was an app that had a back-door built into it so the app could be
secretly used to jail-break the device it was running on. This was pulled from
the market.

~~~
Jtsummers
Pulled from the market != killed.

They've pulled many apps for various reasons, so far they haven't reached into
user devices and removed/disabled apps.

------
zmmmmm
It seems a bit weird that they are choosing to sell nothing and take on a
giant PR campaign rather than simply port this to Android or any other tablet
OS and get on with life. This is a very specialized app where anybody with an
affected child will gladly buy a custom piece of hardware if necessary to get
the job done.

(Of course, they may still get a "real" legal injunction from selling it of
some kind, but then at least they can stop complaining about their competitor
back-dooring the justice system).

------
da_n
From my own experience, once you have purchased/downloaded an app you can
install/re-install it on devices without any restriction, but you would be
wise to keep a copy of the .ipa somewhere. I downloaded the VLC app on my
iPhone before it was pulled and have since been able to install it onto an
iPad I bought last month no problem. Obviously it won't be updated so the
problem of future compatibility is still an issue.

------
AdrianRossouw
not sure benign is the right word.. but sure.

------
wendsday
"Benign"?

What would a malignant dictatorship be like?

------
CubicleNinjas
Can we end these articles please? They're link bait.

Apple users are wildly happy according to surveys. The platform is still the
strongest dev environment is Apple's history. The tradeoff is reduced control
over your hardware and software. Not perfect, but concessions are made.

The use of metaphors is always what rings false though. The 'crystal prison'
or leaving users in the 'dark'. Users are given a touch device that talks to
everyone on the planet, can download things for 100 pennies, and becomes more
useful with time. User don't see this as a dark prison in any way.

~~~
shortformblog
That's a pretty callous take on a story that discusses how a tool designed to
help children with autism got taken out of the App Store.

May want to click the link first next time.

~~~
CubicleNinjas
This is the third or forth rewrite of this same content seen on the frontpage
on HN in 24 hours. It is link bait.

