
Jack Dorsey to fund UBI experiment that could affect up to 7M people - grecy
https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-billionaire-jack-dorsey-universal-basic-income-experiment-2020-7
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sova
It's one thing for a private citizen to donate money to a Basic Income
experiment, it's another thing entirely to legislate the Fed into minting cash
for distribution. Basic Income is a necessary future, but the Universal part
does not make any sense, and even this is not a Universal experiment, it's a
surgical tactical strike. More reasonably at the national level could be a
Guaranteed Progressive Income that was doled out below certain economic lines.
Putting water on every house just because some homes are burning is a waste of
precious water (that in this case also devalues water - to stick with the
metaphor).

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schwartzworld
The problem with means testing is that you eventually have to draw a line and
some people who "deserve" help don't get it. I'd rather pour water on every
house than accidentally let a few burn down, especially since theres plenty of
water for everybody. Nobody questions printing a few 100 billion dollars for
the military or a wall street bailout, but when it comes to protecting
citizens suddenly we have a country full of accountants.

Do you feel the same about other social services? Should the library only lend
books to people under a certain income? Maybe if people make over 20k we can
charge them to use the playground

~~~
sova
>I'd rather pour water on every house than accidentally let a few burn down,
especially since theres plenty of water for everybody.

That's demonstrably false, which is where Economics comes from. "Limited
Resources and Unlimited Wants."

> Nobody questions printing a few 100 billion dollars for the military or a
> wall street bailout, but when it comes to protecting citizens suddenly we
> have a country full of accountants.

Didn't say anything about Wallstreet or Military until now, what's your
question?

>Do you feel the same about other social services?

That's misleading, as cash handouts are not in the same class. Money is a
commodity and a currency. You're conflating two things as one.

>Should the library only lend books to people under a certain income? Maybe if
people make over 20k we can charge them to use the playground

Do you eat books when you go to the library so the next person cannot use
them, or do you return them so another human being can ocularize and
assimilate the message? If you eat books, your argument is more cogent, but if
you return them like every other savage then I don't understand your question.
Social services are for society, guaranteed income is for people who don't
have income of their own, or not enough to get by. Pardon the snarkiness, but
I can draw a Venn Diagram if that helps.

~~~
schwartzworld
> That's demonstrably false, which is where Economics comes from. "Limited
> Resources and Unlimited Wants."

Money is not a limited resource.

> what's your question?

It's not really a question. We live in a country where huge amounts of money
are spent on Wall Street and the military, and so-called fiscal conservatives
have no problem with it. The talk of money as a limited resource ONLY occurs
when the conversation is about helping people in need.

> Money is a commodity and a currency.

Money is not a commodity. You are literally using words that you don't know
the meaning of. As to "money is a currency", I think I remember reading that
on some pamphlets from the Department of Redundancy Department.

> guaranteed income is for people who don't have income of their own, or not
> enough to get by

My point is that means tests like this leave out people who are in need but
don't necessarily qualify for the means test, and open the door to additional
strawman arguments like "why would anybody work if they are getting UBI".
Means testing requires infrastructure and process, both of which cost plenty
of money.

> If you eat books, your argument is more cogent,

"Hurr durr. If I am deliberately obtuse, it'll feel like I won the argument."
Translated that for you.

~~~
sova
Money is in fact a commodity and currency. You can buy and sell money, as well
as use it as a token for value transfer. This is a sincere fact, I don't know
what's contentious about it. The supply of money is not "limited" but buying
power is limited and money represents buying power.

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Pinegulf
Finland did UBI experiment. Information and results can be found in primary
source: [https://www.kela.fi/web/en/basic-income-
experiment](https://www.kela.fi/web/en/basic-income-experiment)

Of course, healthcare and education are paid by taxes already so take that
into account.

But it will be interesting to see how this works in American context.

