
The Strange Persistence of First Languages (2015) - rutenspitz
http://nautil.us/issue/76/language/the-strange-persistence-of-first-languages-rp
======
hrktb
> But between then and now, research has shown the depth of the relationship
> all of us have with our native tongues—and how traumatic it can be when that
> relationship is ruptured.

I wondered what these research were.

From the additional readings section I see these two that could be related:

> Hallett, D., Chandler, M.J., & Lalonde, C.E. Aboriginal language knowledge
> and youth suicide. Cognitive Development 22, 392-399

> Wang, Q., Shao, Y., & Li, Y.J. “My way or mom’s way?” The bilingual and
> bicultural self in Hong Kong Chinese children and adolescents. Child
> Development 81, 555-567 (2010).

It seems that these studies were done in environments where language has a
very strong cultural connotation and strongly binds to an identity.

Not discrediting it, but I wouldn’t expect the same to be true for a Belgian
couple speaking NL first and French second but moves to France and switch to
French only.

Put another way, I think the whole arguments need disassociation with
contextual factors if the goal is to focus on language. Otherwise language is
just a part of the whole picture, and we should talk about first cultures
perhaps, and not first languages.

~~~
gryson
Identity is a big confound in the relearning experiments involving foreign
adoptees. There are quite a few studies looking at Korean children adopted by
French or North American families. These children seem to completely lose
their first language (no neural response in fMRI), even though some were
adopted as late as 9 years old. However, when they enroll in introductory
Korean classes in college, they seem to pick up the phonology more quickly
than their classmates.

The confound is that it's not clear if they are "reactivating" some long
forgotten part of their brains that maintained Korean phonology, or if they
are simply more apt learners due to identifying as Korean. In other words, one
of the challenges in learning to pronounce a new language is the ability to
overcome "sounding funny" to your peers/yourself, but these Korean adoptees
may not have that holding them back since they feel that they are reacquiring
a lost part of their identity.

~~~
hrktb
We’d have to look closer to the study, but there is a lot of research reaching
the conclusion that learning languages has lasting effect on the brain, in
particular in bi-lingual children ([0] for instance)

In that respect, picking back a language they once developed the “hardware” to
fully master would be faster for them than people starting from scratch, even
if presumably they’ve completely forgotten it.

I’d also expect children having learned language with the same structure to
learn Korean faster, just as fully bi-lingual people learn tjeir third or
fourth language faster in general.

[0]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6124684/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6124684/)

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jodrellblank
_Long after they’ve mastered its syntax and vocabulary, a lifelong accent may
mark them as latecomers to the language. Arnold Schwarzenegger was the star of
many American movies and the governor of the country’s biggest state, but his
Austrian accent is a constant reminder that he could never run for president._

Unfortunate Daily Mail source[1], but Mr Schwarzenegger says he can speak
unaccented English, but he keeps his accent deliberately because it's what
people expect of him.

And the popular claim is that he uses a vocal coach to help him keep it, after
using a vocal coach to lose it early in his career. Can't quickly find any
source for this claim, but it's plausible enough that it's part of his brand
and image and worth a lot, that it doesn't seem a good idea to use him as an
example in this article. Doubly so when he did run for Gov. of California, the
largest economy of the individual states, and his accent didn't stop his
success there.

[1]
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3141778/Arnold...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3141778/Arnold-
Schwarzenegger-reveals-speak-perfect-English-keeps-talking-accent-fans-expect-
it.html)

~~~
Decade
It’s not about whether the electorate would vote for him. It’s that the
Constitution of the United States of America forbids anyone other than
natural-born citizens from becoming President.

In theory, you can have natural-born citizens with other first languages;
Bruce Lee would have been eligible to run for president if he had lived long
enough; but the author was being rhetorical.

~~~
jhbadger
There actually has been a natural-born US President whose first language
wasn't English. Martin Van Buren, the 8th President of the US, was from the
Dutch minority of New York and spoke only Dutch as a child.

------
Causality1
The entire article seems to be a refutation of its own title. It goes on and
on about how easily first languages slip away and are replaced by the commonly
spoken language of the region.

~~~
JadeNB
I think that the point that the article is making, even if it is not really
expressed by its title, is that the mental _significance_ of our first
language hangs on even if we lose it by no longer being able to speak or think
in it.

