
Not in front of the telly: Warning over 'listening' TV - slmouradian
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31296188
======
TeMPOraL
Part of me really wishes someone would hack their sound-recognition servers
_and_ start streaming all incoming voice data to a website. Voice of People, a
broadcast everyone could tune in to, and listen to everyone else.

~~~
arethuza
There is a deeply unpleasant variation on this in Ken MacLeod's _The Execution
Channel_ :

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Execution_Channel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Execution_Channel)

~~~
TeMPOraL
Sounds very interesting, thanks! Adding it to my reading list.

------
JamesBaxter
I didn't realise that Siri does it too:
[http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/09/17/how-to-enable-
and-...](http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/09/17/how-to-enable-and-use-hey-
siri-handsfree-mode-in-ios-8)

I think it's really poor reporting (but not unsurprising) that the BBC hasn't
mentioned other devices that have similar issues.

~~~
Luc
'Hey Siri' is vanilla voice recognition processed locally on the device, so
not the same thing at all.

~~~
tomswartz07
> processed locally on the device, so not the same thing at all.

Same situation with 'Ok, Google'.

Initially, the 'Ok, Google' phrase was limited to certain phones that had the
audio processing chip in them. I don't know if this is still the case.

~~~
Zigurd
> _had the audio processing chip in them_

I doubt that was ever actually true. It was probably a kind of shorthand to
explain to users that some processors had the right kind of power management
to enable efficient always-on speech recognition.

And, another thing, local speech processing doesn't mean you are safe from
recording or from large-vocabulary transcription. Compared to what 1980s
speech processing runs on, even when throttled-down to conserve batteries,
you've got ample processing power in modern smartphones.

~~~
dbish
It was/is true. The Snapdragon chips. Voice activation is a built in feature.
[https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2013/02/20/snapdragon-
wake...](https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2013/02/20/snapdragon-wakes-mobile-
world-snapdragon-voice-activation)

------
hyc_symas
And never discuss disconnecting your TV in front of it.
[http://youtu.be/1s-PiIbzbhw](http://youtu.be/1s-PiIbzbhw)

------
JamesBaxter
Doesn't Chrome do this on desktops for "OK Google", I know Android does with
Nexus Devices.

I've turned it off for everything aside from my Xbox One which I find myself
trusting for some reason.

~~~
raverbashing
Don't you have to click something before saying "Ok Google"?

~~~
JamesBaxter
It doesn't look like it.
[https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2940021?hl=en-
GB](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2940021?hl=en-GB)

------
arca_vorago
This seems like a good opportunity for locally processed speech to text (and
therefore commands, etc) to push itself. I used Dragon Naturally speaking for
quite some time for writing papers, and loved it, but I am constantly on the
lookout to replace anything proprietary I use with a GPL/MIT licensed
alternative.

Any suggestions?

~~~
aidenn0
Nuance (the company that now owns Dragon) has a huge patent portfolio for
speech recognition. No commercial products will be able to ship with F/LOSS
speech recognition because of this. It also makes using the GPL not possible

It is possible that someone will make an MIT licensed version (and could do so
legally in some countries that aren't the US), but it would be technically
illegal to distribute in the US.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Oh, so _that 's_ why we don't have local speech recognition and everything is
going to the cloud? Damn it, patents.

~~~
aidenn0
If you want to be even more pissed off, read the Nuance wikipedia page and see
how they essentially bought-out every single potential competitor.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
Late stage capitalism at its finest. Cut-throat competition becomes oligopoly
becomes monopoly. John D. Rockefeller figured this out about 150 years ago.

You can always buy NUAN stock. I'm serious, this isn't hyperbole or sarcasm. I
won't buy a "merchant of death" like Philip Morris, but I'm going to check out
Nuance. If they really have become a monopoly, perhaps there's some money to
be made by investing in them.

Yes I know it sucks, and in an ideal world you have every right to be "pissed
off". But in the real world, you'll do better to remember the slogan: "if you
can't beat 'em, join 'em".

I personally am much "more pissed off" at how companies like Comcast, who are
"natural monopolies", have been extracting ever larger "monopoly rent" from
everyone. They should be much more tightly regulated than they are.

------
nzp
Well, I'm not sure what the problem is. They're open about it, and no one is
forcing anyone to enable voice recognition if one doesn't need/want it, or
doesn't like what happens with the recording.

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the trend of personal and home
devices becoming surveillance machines, there's a lot wrong, but Samsung in
this case is an example of how you do it properly if you have to do it (it's a
feature that apparently has to work the way it works).

------
yclept
I always hardware disable the microphone that comes with such devices

~~~
new1234567
So what do you do with your phone, ipad, laptop, etc? Clip all the
microphones? That's a serious question I think these are all concerns.

For the Smart TV, How do you hardware disable the smart TV microphone? I'm
searching online but don't see directions yet. Can you do it without opening
the TV outer case?

Here's an article on how to block it using your router but I don't think this
would defeat malware. [http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lg-smart-tv-hdtv-
doctorbeet...](http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lg-smart-tv-hdtv-doctorbeet-
privacy,25156.html)

Interested to hear ideas & opinions from HN.

~~~
jerf
Occasionally, I sniff my network. Usually when I wonder why my network light
is blinking like mad on my modem despite there being no computers on. Or, so I
thought, as it has always turned out to be something innocent. But I've got my
blog all warmed up and ready for when it turns out not to be!

If something in my house was continuously transmitting a stream of audio, I'd
notice. Very, _very_ eventually, but I would notice. There's enough of us out
there that this sort of thing is harder to sneak by than you might first
guess. Home networks are easy to sniff because they're so empty, whereas my
work network is a constant stream of mDNS, DHCP, and all sorts of other
broadcast traffic to step through before I can see anything interesting.

(Also, yes, I'm eliding details like wired vs. wireless sniffing, etc. And I'm
not talking about the router, though evidence online suggests there's a set of
people periodically sniffing the router<->internet, too. And yes, clever clogs
could try to time things to when people may not be looking, etc. The _point_
is that the traffic is not as unwatched as you may think, not that the
watchers are perfect.)

~~~
jastanton
Isn't one of OpenDNS main features watching your network to find suspicious
activity. If your network is asking openDNS to resolve DNS of black listed
servers or something it could throw up a red flag.

Apart from OpenDNS I'm guessing companies like ESET (Antivirus) will monitor
network activity and look for streaming audio and trigger something? Or maybe
that's a more tailored alert.

~~~
lmm
OpenDNS does not have a great record (do they still modify NXDOMAIN
responses?) - are you sure you want to send _them_ information about
everything you're connecting to?

~~~
davidu
This is just untrue. Even when we modified NXD responses, we were always open
about it and let people control their experience.

We are probably the fastest growing (revenue) security company in the market
today, and our good reputation is a big part of it. I say fastest growing for
at least companies north of $10m ARR. It's easy to be doing 1000% growth <
$10m ARR. :-)

-David

------
namuol
Shock & Awe!

You'd think the fact that a smartphone _stays in your pocket_ would be more
alarming. The things have multiple cameras, microphones, GPS tracking devices,
and a whole myriad of personal information stored on them.

They're even _rectangular screens_!

Someone needs to write an article that refers to smartphones in the context of
"telescreens" and describe what they do matter-of-factly so we can snap out of
it...

~~~
pluma
I'm aware of the sarcasm, but this is actually not mere hyperbole.

Imagine every American being in the vicinity of a remote-controllable
intercept device with a microphone, camera and GPS tracker 24 hours each day.

But don't worry, you have nothing to hide, right? Can't let the terrorists
win.

~~~
namuol
Actually I wasn't being sarcastic -- our smartphones really are more insidious
than Telescreens, from a technical standpoint.

------
tripzilch
> [Samsung added] that it took consumer privacy "very seriously".

No taking it very seriously would mean refusing to implement this feature
unless you can do it without sending audio recorded in the room over the Net.

I don't think it would be hard at all for NSA/GHCQ to tap into a feed like
this, Samsung/3rd party willing or not.

------
tux
Don't be surprised if you're also get recorded through web cam on your tv :)

~~~
CWuestefeld
I don't know of any TVs that have webcams. On the other hand, I'm surprised
not to have heard more about video from Kinect devices.

~~~
dmd
LG Smart TV seems to have one.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaBVfH4GCJ8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaBVfH4GCJ8)

------
dangerboysteve
Why would this be limited to only TV's and not every Samsung product if they
company is employing something as stupid as this.

------
cbeach
Those claiming similar foul play by Apple are probably wrong.

I just checked and "hey Siri" is recognised offline.

------
jordanlev
I saw this blow up on twitter over the weekend, but I don't understand how
this is different then what Siri does (my understanding is that it gets sent
to Apple's servers for processing your speech)... at least Samsung is being
up-front about it.

~~~
satysin
You activate Siri. These TVs listen _constantly_ feeding your voice data back
to Samsung's servers at will.

~~~
jordanlev
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks! (I guess I got downvoted because people thought
I was trolling? Fwiw it was a genuine question).

------
RyanMcGreal
Yakov Smirnoff approves wholeheartedly.

