
3-D Printer Company Seizes Machine From Desktop Gunsmith - sakai
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/10/3d-gun-blocked/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+WiredDangerRoom+%28Wired%3A+Blog+-+Danger+Room%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
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sbierwagen
What a dumb project.

You could build a single-use .22LR pistol out of ABS, sure. The barrel would
have to be three inches thick to contain the pressure, there'd be tons of
propellant blowby as the barrel warped under pressure, it'd only work once,
and the total lack of rifling would give you pathetic accuracy.

It would "work", but be totally impractical, as well as expensive. (Printing
giant blocks of solid plastic on a FDM machine is spendy) It's like the actual
goal of this project is to get the ATF to take an interest in regulating 3D
printers.

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Tichy
The printers might get better?

Also, is it conceivable that new gun mechanisms could be invented, optimized
for plastic guns? Would the strain be less if you shot plastic bullets?

I don't know anything about gun physics (as is probably obvious).

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stonemetal
The strain is caused by the explosion of the powder in the round. There really
isn't anyway around it. If you are going to accelerate a projectile to speed,
then you are going to get equal but opposite force on the device(per Newton's
law of physics). You might be able to print a low speed, low weight projectile
item like a b.b. gun.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Or you could print most of the parts and use a steel or FRP barrel and hammer
assembly.

~~~
angersock
Keltech at Home!

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antidoh
Stepping up just slightly from the fact that this is about a gun, this is
really just part of the movement to get access and production closer to
people, with fewer intermediaries. Linux and other open source. Servers.
Personal assistants. Music, books and other media production and consumption.

(And in that vein, if companies are intent on getting more done with fewer
employees, then I'm fully on board with getting more stuff from fewer
companies. But that's another rant.)

In the US, we have the unique atmosphere of the 2nd Amendment right to bear
arms, and so this is also a way to make it easier for citizens to exercise
their rights.

Finally, 3D printing and its effects have shown up here on HN a couple times
recently. HN'er cstross's <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_34_%28novel%29>
is a great novel that features exactly that idea as a sub plot. I really
enjoyed the book.

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andyl
The guy on the video seems like a sociopath. I think his goal is to raise his
profile amongst gun-rights activists. Politician in training.

Thank god there isn't a 3d printer for viruses. (yet)

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jasongullickson
Shouldda used a RepRap...

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ktizo
The main issue with restricting availability of 3d printers is an economic
one. The potential for engineering improvements, cost savings, insanely tight
development cycles and mass bespoke manufacture-to-order would seem to
strongly favour the society with the least regulation on this.

Is not as though it is really going to widely cut the cost or massively
increase the availability of handguns however.

The economics of established mass manufacture of simple mechanical items will
have an edge over 3d printing for a while yet for any items that derive
negligible economic benefit from uniqueness or short runs.

There is little economic benefit in 3d-printing basic guns, in the same way as
there is little economic benefit in 3d-printing paperclips. People who really
want guns can get them dirt cheap already. I think grips will start being 3d
printed however and the existing high-end market for bespoke crafted guns will
start using technology like metal laser sintering, if it doesn't already.

I am just hoping that a few idiots won't manage to completely hijack the
public perception of this technology, just to play the violent-paranoia
politics of gun rights, when there are far more interesting uses for this tech
than adding more guns to a world that already has a massive surplus of the
bloody things.

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Tichy
I live in Germany and I have never held a real gun in my hands. I am not sure
where to go to get one. I think there are some shops, but a gun permit might
be required to buy one.

Printing one at home would lower the bar, I think. Not that I need a gun, but
I mean in general. What about kids, for example?

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ktizo
I grew up in the UK and did some cadet training, so I learned to shoot a small
caliber rifle there. I also know some farmers, some professional hunters, and
some folk who go on pheasant shoots so I know a few people who use guns
professionally and for sport. Legal guns are pretty widespread. On the other
side, there is an illegal gun market in most large cities, where prices are
shockingly low. In the reports of the recent killing of police in Manchester,
both guns and grenades were claimed to be being sold on the street for between
£50 and £200.

As for the argument about kids, if your kids have easy access to bullets, then
there are already problems long before they start trying to 3d print a gun.

~~~
Tichy
Good point - I guess somehow there has to be a way to print the bullets,
too...

Not that I am eager for the time when everybody can print themselves a gun at
home. But I guess it will happen.

Also, I have no idea how to find such a black market. Perhaps asking on
Twitter would work? Otherwise I can only think of silk road, the BitCoin
market. Never checked it out as I don't do drugs, but perhaps they also do
guns?

Not that I want a gun atm, just curious out of principle.

Actually I would like to have a gun in case there is some kind of apocalypse.
But I don't want to have a gun around (I think statistics say that you are
much more likely to be killed by a gun if you have a gun). There should be
some way to hide it somewhere safe :-/

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ktizo
Guns are pointless defensively for anything barring a very narrow range of
situations. If you are really that worried, get a big stick, it is far more
likely to be useful and you aren't going to get arrested, shot, or
accidentally blow off bits of yours or other people's anatomy. Better yet,
cheer up and stop worrying about the possibility of some kind of apocalypse,
and if it does happen, and you have a 3d printer and a load of material, may I
suggest you start with water filters and simple pumps rather than weaponry.

~~~
Tichy
Good point :-) I didn't actually think "I need a 3d printer so that I could
make a gun". If I was seriously worried, I'd try to get a gun the official
way.

Not saying I am not worried, but I don't seem to get round to building that
emergency package.

~~~
saalweachter
The problem with serious stockpiling is that you make yourself a target for
anyone who didn't, if the worst actually happened. A stockpile of weapons
might help protect you, but if you're sitting on years and years of food and
survival equipment in a wasteland of thousands of starving and desperate
people, chances are most of your weapons will just be one more thing looted
from your corpse after a less well prepared and more desperate person gets
lucky.

That's why you need to stockpile something which will be extremely valuable
after an apocalypse, but not worth killing you over. Something which is cheap
now, but that most people with a little extra food stockpiled might be willing
to trade you for. Something you need and will use daily anyway: toilet paper.

Plus, any accidental death resulting from your toilet paper stockpile is
probably going to be _hilarious_.

~~~
dwiel
Or something valuable that clearly requires your personal knowledge to
operate. Like a fancy radio.

~~~
happimess
This is an excellent reason to be a bicycle mechanic.

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rorrr
That will surely stop him (and others).

~~~
krasin
surely not

although, I don't see the point to use a 3d printer there. an advanced CNC
routing machine will make better gun parts.

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mahyarm
If this is about the affordability of 3d printers, couldn't a desktop CNC
machine do something similar? You can buy one on amazon.com for $350-ish:

[http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Toolworks-CNC-Carving-
Machine/dp/B...](http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Toolworks-CNC-Carving-
Machine/dp/B002ARTLUG%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-z-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB002ARTLUG)

I don't know if it would be adequate, but it has a working space bigger than
some pocket pistols for sale today. Guns are relatively simple machines with
forms existing for a century still sold new today. Such as bolt action rifles.

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sbierwagen
1.) That's about a thousand dollars short of a functional CNC mill.

    
    
      NOT INCLUDED - This is just the CNC machine with motors. You will need 
      a 3 Axis Stepper Motor Driver to manage each motor, a spindle/cutter 
      (a Dremel would work) and a DC power supply for the driver. You will 
      also need a computer with a standard printer port and CNC software. - 
      You will also need a way to mount and secure the spindle/cutter 
      tightly to the Z-axis plate on the machine.
    

2.) It can't mill metal.

3.) A mill's the wrong tool for a barrel. You'd use a lathe for that, and even
then it'd be smoothbore, without the tool to cut rifling.

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krasin
re 3) the only regulated (in US) gun part is the lower receiver which looks
like this: <http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11669>

A mill is the right tool for that (though, it's tricky and some manual work
will be required)

A barrel is available for online purchase (in US) No problem here.

For other countries, with stricter gun regulations, like Russia, making a
barrel would be a problem, but it's usually solved with a Deep Holl Drill
(using a steel rod or cylinder as a source)

