
Cofounders - how high a bar? - anon

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zaidf
I am sure this is just one way but from all the times I remember having a
great experience working with someone else, it just happened without me
analyzing beforehand bullet by bullet how good the guy is. And I do have
couple instances where the paper analysis of the guy was great but once we
started work it wasn't so great.

My experience is that if you aren't deep into a stage where you HAVE to give
away a cofounder title, just start working with the guy! When we associate the
cofounder title it carries the stereotypical image of a cofounder which makes
us double guess if this guy is "co founder material"--but there is no such
thing as "cofounder material."

All you have are people passionate and skillful enough to help you start and
execute your venture and people that aren't. Before thinking of someone as a
"cofounder" think if he can practically help you with a skill you need that
you yourself lack or aren't best at.

~~~
anon
To answer a few questions:

One of my issues with this person is that while I do like his company, and
respect him in a lot of ways, we think differently about how to move things
forward. I'm much more of a "below the radar, live cheap and get something
working" guy, whereas he's more along the lines of "VC funding or bust",
without even having much of a prototype. That just sounds bad to me. Though I
recognize that funding at a later stage in the game would certainly help, I
think we'll have a better bargaining position if we have something that sort
of works in hand.

That's another thing... I believe more in having mostly technical people.
Different skill sets can certainly be a good thing (the Paypal story in
Founders at Work was a good example), but it's also a good way to start
thinking "hrm... I'm building the code... what is that other guy actually
doing?"

Juwo: I'm not planning on stealing the idea or anything like that. I have
plenty of ideas of my own. The one he's hatched up is pretty good, but it's
not going anywhere in terms of code or a web site or stuff like that. Just
paperwork for investors...

~~~
zaidf
I know several first time entrepreneurs from several years ago that "tested"
waters in initial stages trying to raise VC money. And it's damn hard! So
unless this guy has some inside connections and has been there, done that--I'd
personally say it is not only a bad idea but potentially a huge waste of time
--same thought I'm sure you must be having.

If you can get going without any funding(which it appears you can) START. Yet
if this guy insists on getting funding before ANYTHING else, he might just be
an excuser or nonbeliever hoping the funding will validate his idea. Both bad
things in a cofounder of a company that isn't even in development yet.

I'll leave some room because obviously you know more than I do about this
specific guy and your situation. But if I had a cofounder who INSISTED on
raising VC, he would have to be DAMN GOOD seller for me to buy into it--and
chances are, we would still part ways as far as working together on that
specific venture.

~~~
vlad
+1 best post ever. Loaners want to be repaid with interest. They want to know
how you expect to repay them. And the repayment has to come with customer
money, obviously, not more loans. VC's "loan" money as well, but they want you
to make them ten times as much money as they are investing; never mind a few
percent interest. They also want to control your company.

His idea of "if nobody is going to fund my future idea, then the world doesn't
deserve it," is still actually... factual. Exactly. Don't fund that idea. DO
NOT bootstrap that idea. Do not do that idea. If that idea really does require
millions of dollars, do something similar and more basic to start. Don't do a
half-assed job if you really calculated it would take you millions just to get
launched. Remember, the world doesn't deserve it, and you can't build your
idea. So build a smaller version. Simple. And you only have to get a few
customers to be in the black, instead of millions. You just won't be on the
news.

Oh, and it gives you something to do--scaling it up and adding new features--
after your initial launch. While, if you spend all these years and all this VC
money before you can launch, and nobody cares about your product when it's
launched, you're probably going to abandon ship. So, if you need VC money just
to launch, you're nuts.

~~~
cwilbur
Well, _someone_ needs to fund the idea. Programmers gotta eat. Is it going to
be the venture capitalists, or is it going to be the users, or is it going to
be the advertisers once you've attracted users to the site?

If you accept the first one, it raises the bar for how much of the other two
you need to acquire.

------
Harj
Your relationship with your co-founder is EXACTLY like being married. Think
how high your bar would be for marriage and set it at the same level (namely
very high - you're going to go through stupidly stressful times with his
person so make sure your relationship can cope)

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rokhayakebe
Depends what you want him to do. Things can be learned and you can always use
an extra hand. What you want ot worry about is "why is he getting into it?" In
the "world is Flat" T.Friedman states P+CI. That is Passion + Curiosity
Intelligence. Your startup and mine have less than 5% chance to succeed and
yet we believe like no-one else that 5% is big enough to go thru this
journey.We like the money, but if money is your first drive then you will
eventually quit at some point when evrything says it is going to be over in
One minute. At that point the co-founders who were in it for the money will
walk out. The one who were in it for the passion and the challenge to learn
and master the ultimate startup language ( not Technology, but "loyal and
satisified Users") )will get 2gether and ask themselves " How the F _& $ we
got into this mess and how the F%^$ can we clean it up now, make it look good
and have more users?

~~~
juwo
wise

"if money is your first drive then you will eventually quit at some point when
evrything says it is going to be over in One minute. At that point the co-
founders who were in it for the money will walk out. The one who were in it
for the passion and the challenge to learn and master the ultimate startup
language ( not Technology, but "loyal and satisified Users") )will get 2gether
and ask themselves " How the F&$ we got into this mess and how the F%^$ can we
clean it up now, make it look good and have more users? "

------
anon
[I submitted this anonymously because the person in question may very well
read this site now or at some point in the future.]

In short: I have a potential co founder, which is something that everyone
seems to say is good. The problem, though, is that I don't think this guy is
perfect (he may well think the same of me), for various reasons. Ok, no one is
perfect, but I know people that I think would be "about as good as you could
get" (unfortunately they aren't available), and this guy doesn't measure up.

Better to strike out on my own, or throw in my lot with someone who's perhaps
not the right person?

~~~
gibsonf1
One of my sayings is "Perfection is Difficult" meaning that it is actually
impossible. I wouldn't want to start up a company with someone I couldn't
completely trust. Having different skill sets is actually a very good thing,
but you need to really like the company of the person.

~~~
gyro_robo
> I wouldn't want to start up a company with someone I couldn't completely
> trust.

You can never completely trust VCs ;)

------
juwo
"Better to strike out on my own"

are you planning to steal his ideas, or any part of them?

\----------------

update: thanks for clarifying that you wont! \----------------

My 2 cents:

WAKE UP!

He is doing the best he knows to do - pitch to VCs and raise funds.

You are doing the best you know to do - build a prototype and bootstrap.

Both are valid paths.

In fact, a former advisor - I say former because he was your cofounder's type.
He had "no skin in the game" but kept forcing me for months, to abandon work
on the prototype and pitch the idea and raise funds. But it worked for him -
he sold a company in China to Disney.

Truth is relative - at least in this area.

However, when you say your cofounder is not up to par, "does not measure up" -
even though he came up with the idea, to me that is not very respectful. You
dont really value him. I can see a big fight looming ahead. Several months
down the road, you will want to spend 90% time bootstrapping; while he will
want you both to be pitching to investors instead. Unless - you do both.

