

Ask HN: Soon to be high school graduate with two full time job offers. Help? - jkap

So here's some background:<p>I'm a high school senior that's about to graduate in May. I'm currently working for a local (and damn fine) new media firm as the only iOS developer. I started as a development intern over the summer and got hired for the school year on a part time basis.<p>My life plan had basically been to go to school for a comp sci degree and then get a job as a developer, as that's what I really enjoy doing. However, I've recently been having second thoughts on school in general and whether or not I even want to pursue a degree. This, coupled with the fact that I've recently received two separate offers for full time work (one with the firm I'm currently working for, one with a new startup that shows a lot of potential) as a developer straight out of high school, is making it very difficult for me to make a decision.<p>I've been discussing it with my parents, and they've been being very diplomatic about it by saying that I should do whatever will give me the most options in the long run. My friends that I've asked think that I should take one of the jobs that've been presented to me, as this sort of thing doesn't happen to most people in their lifetime, let alone before their high school graduation.<p>I don't really have a specific question, just a call for advice: what would you do in this situation? If you need anymore information, just ask. I'll give what I feel comfortable telling.<p>Thanks for reading.<p>TL;DR: I'm about to graduate from high school and I have two job offers for full time work as a developer. I don't know whether I want to take one of those or go to college. Advice?
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bartonfink
This is a good problem to have, so if you're feeling pressured, don't. You're
choosing the greater of two goods, so to speak, so it's hard to do something
at this stage that will drastically screw up your life.

I believe going to college will ultimately open more doors for you than
bypassing college to work will. There are things you probably know about right
now that you would find interesting but which require a college education. For
example, actually working at Apple would almost certainly require a college
degree just to get in the door for an interview. That may not be a particular
door you'd like to walk through, but the point still stands - by not going to
college you are closing that door. Further, part of college involves filling
gaps in your knowledge you might not even know exist (so-called 'unknown
unknowns'). I took a linguistics course, for example, and find it to be an
INCREDIBLY fruitful body of knowledge to draw from as I explain and reason
about the world around me. I had no linguistic bent before college, but I am
much richer for the knowledge.

By working now, you are gaining some good experience, and you're drawing a
paycheck (and the numbers are immaterial right now - almost ANY paycheck beats
the money the average college kid earns). You're passing up student loans if
those are a concern of yours, and in a sense you'll be learning a lot that
college won't teach. I don't know enough about the startup versus media firm
to have a solid opinion, but you should keep in mind that your age and lack of
a college degree will hinder your ability to switch jobs if either company
goes Tango Uniform. Further, depending on when that happens, you may be
sitting around for a semester waiting to enroll in college if that's what you
decide to do.

If I were you, I'd find some way to get a college education on something
approaching a reasonable time frame. By reasonable, I don't mean four or even
five years - I'm thinking closer to seven. If you can keep up work full time
while getting that degree, you reap the benefits of both choices at the cost
of some of your social life. I did that with grad school and don't feel I
missed anything worth experiencing. That said, I'm a modern day Daniel
Plainview, meaning I 'tolerate' most people but like very few. Your mileage
will almost certainly vary, and the choice and consequences are ultimately
yours.

------
tworats
For me college was tremendously fun. I learned a great deal, formed life-long
friendships, and generally had the best time of my life.

You won't get that at a job.

You'll spend most of the rest of your life at a job. Take a few years to
experience something different.

Besides, you've demonstrated you're smart and capable, so you'll have plenty
of bigger, better opportunities come your way.

Go to school. Enjoy life. Talk one of the firms into giving you a part time
job instead of full time. You'll get the best of both worlds.

------
lsc
Something similar happened to me. I graduated in '98 when there was a huge
demand for Linux SysAdmin skills. I took the job. It worked out well for me; I
was able to establish myself well enough to handle the downturn.

The market right now for IOS devs is a lot like the market for linux sysadmins
in 1998. I'd bet money that in five years, IOS devs will be earning less,
normalized for skill, (either because IOS loses as a platform, or because more
people retrain to become IOS devs and increase supply to meet the demand, one
or the other will happen.)

Unless you have a limited-time offer for paid-for college, taking the job
(with the option to go back to school if you feel the need or if the market
for your current skills tanks) will give you the most options, and likely the
highest earnings. Nobody asks me if I went to college.

There will be a cost you need to consider, though.

If you choose not to go to college, you will always be weird. Either you don't
go to college and you are the uneducated hick (of the people I interact with
day to day, more of them have postgraduate degrees, I think, than have no
degree at all.) or you go back to college and you are the old guy for the
duration. (which, at least for the few community college classes I've taken
for kicks, I found kinda amusing, personally.)

So really, my advice: if you are career-focused, take the job. If you want a
"normal" social life? go to college.

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damoncali
Good god, go to college. Jobs will be there. And be there. And be there.
Forever. Getting a job offer is the exact opposite of a once in a lifetime
event. Going to college _is_ a once (maybe twice if you do it right) in a
lifetime opportunity - don't waste it working as a jr developer.

This is not a close call.

~~~
ichverstehe
This really depends on where in the world you are located. Posts of this kind
always have a bunch of answers along the lines of the parent post. The thing
is, that is largely an American phenomenon, as far as I can tell. At least in
Denmark, where I am from, this type of "life-changing experience" usually
happens in high school (granted, we're in high school from 16-17-ish till
19-20-ish,) with college being less influential with regards to your social
life/experience.

For what it's worth, I dropped out in my final year of high school, to
freelance, start my own company, and eventually landing a job at a nice
startup. So, while I don't regret not finishing and going to college for a
single second, I wouldn't trade the 2,5 years in high school for anything in
the world. That was the best time ever. So far, anyways.

~~~
damoncali
Interesting. I'm obviously American. I guess the larger point is that the
period in your life from the age of 17-18 to about 21-22 is pretty important
(or is that just my American showing again?)

~~~
ichverstehe
You are right, I think. What I was trying to say is, a lot of the people
recommending college in these situations cite the "life experience"—which I
wholeheartedly agree with—but, that might not be coupled to college :)

~~~
jkap
That's what I've been seeing a lot too. Almost everyone recommending college
over the jobs are life, not potential career benefits.

I'm American as well, btw.

~~~
damoncali
Put another way, what I'm saying is that what you call "life benefits"
actually are "career benefits". There is a big picture coupling of the two.
Don't short change your life experience - it may or may not be at college, but
the job offer is a red herring.

As they say - "Youth is wasted on the young". Wrap your mind around that and
live your youthful days to the fullest. Prove them wrong.

------
HardyLeung
Go to college, but keep the burning fire in your heart and don't waste it. The
hard truth is that without a college degree you are at a significant
competitive disadvantage in getting a job in the future.

I agree that some people can be very successful without a college degree, but
even more people suffer from the lack of it. Why take the risk? Perhaps you
are the special one who excels without a college education, but if you are so
good, you certainly can pass up the opportunity to become a junior developer
and instead focus your energy in making your college education a successful
and productive one.

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ncash
I was in a similar position at the end of high school. I opted for
college/internships, and I often regret that decision. While college has some
unique benefits, especially in the ways of networking and unusual
opportunities, you will find that work experience and actual ability matters
far more in the software world.

Pick the job you think you'll like the most and go for it. The startup will
likely provide amazing real world learning opportunities in software and
business, so I would vote for that one. Given your skill you might also
consider giving your own startup a go.

Do keep in mind that college will always be there, so if a job doesn't work
out you can always head off to college. Also, here's a piece of advice I wish
someone would have given me: when picking a college, do not settle for any
reason. Find a place that will challenge your abilities and help you actually
learn more about computer science. For financial reasons I opted for a state
school instead of a big name school (where I had been accepted) and I've been
frustrated and bored to tears ever since.

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janj
10 years since I've graduated. Knowing what I know now, if I was in your
position I would postpone school for a year, at least, to take whichever
position excites you more. If you do decide to go back to school your real
world experience will be so valuable as you take classes; if you don't go back
to school it will probably be because you're loving your current situation.

------
zachwaugh
Go to college. Put all the education and career considerations aside for a
moment. College was one of the best times of my life. Go have some great
experiences, make friends, go to parties, travel, do crazy shit, and take time
to think about the rest of your life and want you want it to be. After that,
you'll be working until you retire, and that's something I wouldn't rush into.
I've been out of college about 7 years, and never once I have thought, man, I
wish I've been working full-time longer. Plus, I made some of my best friends
and met my wife while I was in college.

You have no idea in what direction your career will take you, so I wouldn't
worry too much about trying to plan for the "long run". A lot of my friends
switched careers or went back to school at some point in their 20s. Many
people are now making a living off creating iPhone apps, and the iPhone didn't
even exist 4 years ago, so there is no way to plan for everything.

------
atgm
What doesn't happen to most people? Job offers? I think that's untrue.

Look at the jobs you're being offered -- how's the environment? The pay?
Benefits? Long-term prospects?

Where would you live, with your parents? Or do you want to move out and live
closer to work?

------
mcarrano
You are in a great position.

As someone who is currently in college and was in a similar situation as you.
I ultimately chose to go to college since I felt I only have one chance to get
the true college experience.

I do not regret my choice at all, I feel the connections and memories I have
made are invaluable to any job offer I received coming out of high school.

Ultimately the choice is yours and do what you feel is best for you now and
what will line you up for a successful future.

------
andrewce
If there's a reasonably reputable university nearby, one thing to see is if
you can work part-time and go to school part-time (alternatively: see if you
can telecommute). Your employer may even be able to help with tuition (time to
brush up on those negotiatin' skills).

I'm going back to school next year to pursue an engineering degree (I used to
be an English teacher), and will be working through via some of my freelance
gigs.

A full courseload still leaves you with at least 20 hours per week to work a
job while maintaining a social life, so you're certainly not going to be
shackled.

There's a huge jump in psychosocial development that happens sometime in or
shortly after the collegiate years, and it's a great place to meet people and
to explore, at least for a few years. Ideally, you'll learn quite a bit, too,
though that's mostly up to you to decide. Personally, I'd recommend taking a
few linguistics courses, as well as a good writing course (rhetoric, if
possible, and also narrative).

One thing to remember: if one of them doesn't pan out, you can always go do
the other, or do something else. Now is not forever.

Best of luck.

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thebigredjay
Take the job. You get money and learn. If the job stagnates think about going
to school, but for now take the job!!

Sincerely, Second year Uni CS student.

------
b0o
I've read a lot of the comments that the community has given, and they're
mostly from a hacker viewpoint and almost all of them tell you to go to
college, and work on the side.

I would definitely not take the jobs offered. You have the next 50-60 years to
work, why start now? Plus, on average, you'll make more with a degree than
without one so it'll make up for it in the long run but it'll be more fun
going to class with friends than work. Plus, going to school will sharpen your
mind, introduce you to concepts you never knew existed, cultures you never
heard of, and the crazy people, yes, the "crazies", you'll have to meet them
someday, so do it on campus and get your fill of the "crazies" before you go
on. Oh, and you don't want to go back when you're almost 30 and being 10+
years older than the rest of your peers, it'll just look weird, not that i am
one, but I think it'd just be weird.

I never regretted any of it, and if you work hard, you won't either.

\- Sincerely, close-to-being-finished senior uni student.

------
vnchr
I hope you can get the experience of college, for personal development and
learning beyond your scope of natural experience would take you.

But do the math. If you can't get a full-scholarship for school (tuition AND
cost of living) you may put yourself behind financially. There are lot of
people today in their early and mid-20s who are seriously questioning if their
degree was worth it.

Old [school] people and large companies like that education bullet point. If
you want flexibility in your career, you'll need some sort of bachelor's
degree. But it doesn't matter when you get it!

If you're entrepreneurial enough (which you must be to judge a startup to be
showing "a lot of potential") I think you'll never regret diving into a career
doing what you love.

------
mkinnan
Never undervalue the value of college. It's not just about the academics.

My thoughts ... is there a community college or university near where you
'could' be working full time? If so, maybe you could figure something out
where you could work part/full time and go to school at the same time.
Sometimes companies offer special deals that pay some or all of your tuition
for 1 class per semester.

If you decide to work and go to school at the same time, get your AA first.
That way if you decide you want to go to a different university, you can
usually transfer the AA degree.

Keep us updated :)

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draz
I went to college for one year, left to work for 3 years, and then back to
school. Obviously, no right answers. However, take into consideration that
when you do come back after a few years, all your friends will be out of
school, and you may find your new classmates a bit young (you'd think to
yourself, "I've already done A, B, and C, and now I need to deal with this
crap??" :-) ). At the beginning you'll feel a bit out of place, but then
you'll find the crowd you want to hang out with. If you only take 1 year off,
I think you'd be ok :-)

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JPK5
Talk to the college, and ask to do a gap year. I think almost every major
university allows you to do it. Explain your job opportunities and tell them
you want to pursue them. If they are over-enrolled for next year, they might
even encourage it. This way you don't lose any of your opportunities.

------
andynewman
I went to school full time, worked part time, and had an internship that
ranged from 20-40 hours a week. It's a big commitment, but definitely doable.

Don't sell yourself short, but in the end, do whatever is going to make you
happy.

------
keithclark
I love how people here are promoting college when the richest people who ever
lived never went...Milton Hershey dropped out in the 4th grade and I've never
met any female who hates a Hershey bar!

~~~
atgm
Maybe it's that they didn't need school, rather than dropping out of school
that made them rich.

------
noodle
do both. you will have a TON of free time in college, unless you inundate
yourself purposefully. use some of that free time to continue doing part-time
work. hell, you might have enough time to do full-time work. i had much more
free time in college than i did in high school.

college is only partly about the degree and the job that follows. its a
formative time in your life that you shouldn't skip out on.

------
PonyGumbo
If you skip college entirely, you'll be explaining that decision to friends,
co-workers, and prospective employers for the rest of your life.

------
venturebros
take the full time job and go to school part-time and/or online

~~~
lsc
>Take the full time job and go to school part-time and/or online

Eh, personally, I think this is the worst choice of all. You won't get the
"normal" social life of college, you won't get as much academically out of
college, and you won't get all you can out of your first job.

Unless you are some kind of superman, you will either have to take easy
classes (and skip most of the social bits) or you will have to do your
homework while you are at work, and probably both.

This "split the difference" is what I tried to do, and I gave it up within
months (choosing a SysAdmin career over college) because it became clear that
I would only be able to do one or the other well.

