
Hard-Core Career Advice For A 13-Year-Old - h43k3r
http://techcrunch.com/2015/05/31/hard-core-career-advice-for-a-13-year-old/
======
codingdave
There is a lot of survivor bias here - many people who try to make their own
business just plain fail. People who try to do so without already having had
some work experience and savings built up often end up just scraping by at or
below the poverty line, just trying to make ends meet.

Encouraging a 20 year old who is well educated, just without that final degree
to quit and start their own thing is far different than telling your 13 year
old daughter to quit school.

And saying that multi-millionaires have a diverse set of income streams does
not mean that their first million did not come from a more focused effort in
one specific area.

I'm not arguing that higher education is for everyone - clearly, it is not.
But saying that nobody even needs a high school level of education is not a
claim I am going to support.

My advice to a 13 year old is more along the lines of, keep learning, keep
having fun, enjoy your teenage years, make teenage mistake while you still
have the support structure of your parents (whether you like it or not), and
just enjoying being young without too many responsibilities. There is no need
to rush teenagers into adulthood.

~~~
zanny
Single point of failure here, but...

> keep learning, keep having fun, enjoy your teenage years

Didn't learn squat from 5-10th grade. 11th and 12th I got into AP curriculum
with fantastic teachers. I still talk to them. But you need fantastic
instructors, the kind who would have been professors if they were not so
selfless to work in public education, to make that happen.

It won't happen for 99% of children. I got incredibly lucky my last two years.

But the inbetween? The monotony of public educators with tenure, in the years
between when I had learned the "basics" (arithmetic, reading, national and
global history) <aside, I do need to mention that home ec and cooking were
amazing classes to have in 6th grade, and were an exception to a multi-year
rule> was a void. I spent my days playing Neverwinter Nights and learning
NWScript (and thus basic C) to build campaigns for a multiplayer persistent
world I was constantly on. This was in the years before World of Warcraft,
which consumed the later years, and with those an education in Lua and engine
hacking.

It is always incredibly harmful to assume schooling == learning. Even the
social aspect is wrong - its an artificial setting. Bullying only exists as a
pandemic when you are forced by law to be next to your bullies eight hours a
day. The rest of us have the freedom to leave those people behind. You acquire
no real world social experience in public education, just look at how out of
whack _everyone_ is their freshmen year when suddenly you are interacting with
people voluntarily and can pick and chose your associations for the first time
in your life.

It was not fun. It was not enjoyable. It was a purgatory. And I now have a 12
year old brother whom I can see the _exact same thing happening to_. And it
_will_ happen to millions of children every year until someone puts their foot
down with the authority to do so and say this machine we grind the creative
spark and imagination out of the younger generation in needs to stop, because
I was lucky, and most are not.

------
tw04
Part of education leading to a job requires you to actively seek education in
a field that's hiring. The amount of young people I hear proclaiming how
screwed they got by the system because they went to college and couldn't find
a job (then you find out their major was art history) makes my head spin.

If you're going to school and majoring in something without a career path,
don't whine there aren't businesses lining up at your door with 6-figure
salaries just dying to hire you.

~~~
sageabilly
Exactly. One of my former best friends did exactly this: graduated with a
bachelor's in 2008, took one look at the job market and decided to get a
master's degree. In Library Science. At a private university. In NYC.

She graduated in 2011 and is _still_ continuously whining about how she can't
find a job in her field (which is dying) and no one is hiring (in the areas
she wants to live in) and she doesn't understand why people aren't lining up
to hire her (despite the case she did zero interning or networking while in
graduate school) see in case you didn't notice she got a Master's degree (and
has zero soft or social skills) clearly that means she should just have a job
handed to her!

Education is a good jumping off point for a lot of people and for a lot of
jobs. However at some point education stops being an additive process and
starts being really self-serving. Additive education is like going to school
to be a doctor- you learn and you learn and you learn and you learn and at the
end of it you have learned enough in a controlled environment to go off and be
a doctor on your own. Self serving education is like getting a PhD in Medieval
Literature- the only thing you can do with that degree is either go off and
teach Medieval Literature to other students or maybe, MAYBE get a job as a
historian in Medieval Literature.

~~~
TwiztidK
Maybe it doesn't get expressed to college students enough, but internships/co-
ops/volunteering are extremely important. It's the difference between getting
an awesome job soon after school and 5+ years after school. A few people I
know have basically refused to get internships (as in they thought about
applying to one, shrugged, and gave up). Meanwhile, I knew a girl who went to
an extremely small, private, liberal arts college in a small town in the
middle of no where and majored in "Sports Management". Meanwhile, she
volunteered for the local ice rink's summer hockey camp and got a part time
job working with a university's hockey team. She did two summer internships
with different lower level professional hockey teams. Her first job out of
school - assisting with an NHL team's youth hockey program. There is almost no
way she would have gotten that job without her other experience.

------
tmuir
So, drop out of school, become an author, podcaster, and an accredited
investor.

Nothing inherently wrong with any of those professions, except very few people
are successful at them. Not to mention the prerequisite of a high net worth to
become an accredited investor.

But maybe this is actually advice for a single 13 year old with a sizeable
security net.

~~~
webwanderings
Was about to say something similar. I think this is a terrible article mixed
with some modern day and applicable wisdom. But given that it is on
Techcrunch....oh well.

------
Jun8
This good article should be paired with pg's great essay
[http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html) that
has similar ideas.

"One of the most dangerous illusions you get from school is the idea that
doing great things requires a lot of discipline. Most subjects are taught in
such a boring way that it's only by discipline that you can flog yourself
through them. So I was surprised when, early in college, I read a quote by
Wittgenstein saying that he had no self-discipline and had never been able to
deny himself anything, not even a cup of coffee."

~~~
crusso
I think that the research shows that self-discipline (or delayed
gratification) is the single best indicator of future success in life.

[http://jamesclear.com/delayed-gratification](http://jamesclear.com/delayed-
gratification)

~~~
facepalm
Often when the Marshmallow study is being quoted, they leave out half of the
story. Which is that the kids who managed to not eat the Marshmallow didn't do
it via iron discipline. They managed it by distracting themselves with other
things (for example reciting poems or whatever). So maybe it was more about
imagination than self discipline.

Or you could say it was about self discipline, but self discipline is not what
we traditionally think it is.

~~~
crusso
It doesn't matter what coping techniques they used. What matters is that they
accomplished the task in a way that showed increased discipline.

Additionally, the marshmallow study isn't the only research that shows this
effect.

------
normloman
This is terrible advice. Self education, entrepreneurship, etc, does not come
easily to everyone. For most people, getting an education and starting a
career is a safe, stable path.

------
brm
Here's my hard-core career advice for a 13 year old. Be a kid. Be curious.
Have experiences. Worry about a career later. Much later.

~~~
everyone
Hear Hear!

------
jambox888
Don't we actually need doctors, lawyers, researchers, critics, engineers? I
realise he wasn't saying that everyone should become an entrepreneur like he
is, but it's worth saying that grades are important.

Won't bother sending this to my 15yo nephew.

~~~
fuzzywalrus
Agreed, this is advice that's steeped in Silicon Valley culture. Not everyone
has the same resources, nor does everyone need to be some sort of
entrepreneur.

Rather than add to the noise by podcasting/blogging, better advice would be to
connect with most talented people who do what you do and learn from them. If
you find that you have a platform and something to say, then do so.

------
angersock
I couldn't help but think of Mel Brooks' _History of the World, pt.1_ when
reading the initial answer to "What do you do?". Could've been summed up as:

"What is the name of your occupation? What are the educational requirements to
work in your career?"

"So I am a writer (I write books and articles). I’m a podcaster (I’ve had 10
million downloads of my podcast). I speak occasionally. And I advise or invest
in over 30 different companies."

"Oh, so you're a bullshit artist."

------
learnstats2
> What is the name of your occupation? What are the educational requirements
> to work in your career?

Being filthy rich; none.

\-- Dr James Altucher, PhD.

------
vmarsy
The current title is wrong (The idea that “Education leads to job” is not true
anymore). The real one on the page is : Hard-Core Career Advice For A 13-Year-
Old

EDIT: ^ The title was updated

The author says: _And remember, there are zero formal education requirements
for what I do._

While this is true for the author, it is obviously wrong for any job in
Engineering, Finance, Medical, Lawyer, ...

So the idea that "Education leads to a job" is and will always remain true for
these sort of jobs. What can change is How to obtain that education: Through
the traditional college system or a different one.

~~~
watershawl
Right, James Altucher, in his other writings on the subject, he specifically
mentions those careers as the only reason to go to college.

------
ucaetano
Career advice for a 13 yo?

No wonder there's a teenager suicide epidemic in the Silicon Valley...

------
everyone
Writer comes off as a bit smug.. Also what domain do they work in? I'm
guessing they already had family, other contacts, or just the social status
that allowed them to attain this arrangement. Its hard to imagine a poverty
stricken inner-city youth doing the same.

~~~
dpritchett
I did some brief research and I'd call it a mixed bag. Looks like he
definitely had a high-tech upbringing, but not necessarily a silver spoon.

Wikipedia mentions he attended Cornell and CMU (PhD).

Freakonomics blog says _" He grew up in a middle-class family that lived
beyond its means, in large part because his dad was about to hit it big with a
computer business and the family was banking on that success. Then the success
happened, and the family lived even larger — until the business suddenly fell
apart, leaving everyone devastated.

Years later, James struck out on his own and he, too, struck it big."_

[http://freakonomics.com/2007/05/03/james-altucher-strikes-
ag...](http://freakonomics.com/2007/05/03/james-altucher-strikes-again/)

------
k__
OT: Somehow this "tell the school what your parents doing" reminds me of a
professor. He told me, when he was young, he worked as a developer at Siemens
and could come to work late. So he always brought his daughter to school. Soon
there was much buzz in the neighborhood about him being an unemployed
deadbeat.

------
superuser2
Can we please take a second to notice that, almost by the definition of
capitalism, "become an investor" is _not_ career advice remotely helpful to
anyone but the most privileged?

------
logfromblammo
My advice to 13-year olds:

    
    
      - Don't get (yourself|your girlfriend) pregnant.
      - Don't get addicted to any drugs.
      - Don't wreck my car after you turn 16.
      - Take as many AP-prep classes as you can.
      - Play in the band or orchestra.
      - Take Spanish as your foreign language.
      - Read books that are not required.
      - Learn basic electronics.
      - Take as many credit-equivalent tests (AP|IB|CLEP) as you can.
      - Apply for all the scholarships.  Yes, *all*.
      - Avoid loans that can't be discharged in bankruptcy.
      - When in doubt, choose the major that requires more math.
      - Girls, don't get married before 22.
      - Boys, don't get married, ever.
       '- (Yes, I know this is incompatible advice.)
      - Skip the reception; spend it on the honeymoon.
    

I decline to give much career advice, because the best jobs in the future
probably don't even exist now. But whatever X is, the X Engineer will be paid
more than anyone else in the X field.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Or, if your first language is anything other than English, take English as
your foreign language. If you want a second foreign language, consider
Mandarin.

"Skip the reception; spend it on the honeymoon" implies that the boys aren't
going to listen to "Boys, don't get married, ever". But that second one is bad
advice anyway - getting married was incredibly good for me. Instead, I'd say
"Wait forever rather than marry the wrong person."

~~~
logfromblammo
Of course they aren't going to listen to it. It's only there to stop them from
getting married until they are mature enough to make serious life decisions
without relying on advice from older people. The full, implied text would be,
"Boys, don't get married, ever, [until you are mature enough to ignore this
advice]."

And as in my observation, girls mature emotionally on a much more reliable
schedule than boys, my advice to them is mostly to ward off the disaster that
comes from trying to re-forge a boyfriend into a husband when he is clearly
not ready for that yet. When he finally is ready, now he may need to get
divorced before getting married. The implied advice is thus "Girls, don't get
married before 22 [because it is extremely unlikely that any of the eligible
men you have ever met before that time would be ready for the
responsibility]."

It's very US-centric advice. And if your first language isn't English, you'll
have a bit of difficulty following it anyway.

------
peter303
I think he being too flippant toward teenagers. Unless he is going to give his
daughter a large trust fund allowance to live off of (which he sounds like he
could afford), she'll need to focus on a careers path or two to make money and
give life meaning. A career doesnt have to be a 9-5 job or solely to make
money, as I think he is trying to say in his essay. And a person could change
paths every few years as opportunity affords.

Plus I know a number of generally older adults who dont really have careers or
jobs anymore. They managed to squirrel away enough savings or an income
stream. Some may have major hobbies or projects you could call a vocation.
Some just drift along.

------
manux
I don't have enough karma (I guess?) to downvote this but if I could I would.

This article is terrible advice as has been pointed out already by many people
in this thread but I just wanted to add my two cents.

"Academic education", up to undergraduates imo, is not so much about what you
actually learn, but about the learning aptitudes and social aptitudes that the
experience makes you develop. I think we can all relate.

This person seems to make massive generalisations from his (rather lucky I'd
imagine) personal experience.

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tfigueroa
That idea has only ever been true during brief, unusually stable times.

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dothething
What a fancy world some people live in.

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OhHeyItsE
Altucher, eh? Out-of-character for the pretentious HN crowd.

