
Bill Gates buys land in Arizona to build 'smart city' - alehul
http://www.kgw.com/news/bill-gates-buys-big-chunk-of-land-in-arizona-to-build-smart-city/491135744
======
chiefofgxbxl
Reading more about Disney's EPCOT is quite inspiring and almost felt ahead of
its time. We Americans should experiment more and build towns and cities under
a different set of assumptions other than cars and gasoline. Why hasn't the
past half century been filled with at least trying new things? What happened
to _laboratories of democracy_?

Although I admit I have a _slight_ repulsion to the thought of a few
billionaires being able to wield almost complete autonomy, and assuredly the
tech billionaires have a vested interest to build these cities such that the
inhabitants depend on their technology (e.g. what would happen if Google built
a city, and look how convenient it is that the ISP is Google Fiber, with
Google self-driving cars servicing the roads, etc.).

In any case, I wish any effort to re-think how we build towns and cities the
best of luck, because it feels like to me we've been grasping this (failing)
strategy of car-addiction for far too long now, and it's draining our society
financially, environmentally, and socially.

~~~
alphonsegaston
Disney was never really interested in democracy. His admiration for fascism is
pretty well-documented. He even escorted the Nazi propagandist Leni
Riefenstahl around Hollywood:

[https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/06/walt-the-
quas...](https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/06/walt-the-quasi-nazi-
the-fascist-history-of-disney.html)

Epcot was to be organized around more or less the same principles as European
fascism.

Holding up his plans (or those of Gates) without questioning the fundamental
morality of the vast inequality of wealth and power they represent is how
America went so far off the rails in the first place.

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
> America went so far off the rails

Huh? It was always an owners republic, like Rome before.

For the 2.0 version they upped the advertising budget.

~~~
ordu
Not a 2.0 version. The was "New Rome" or Constantinople, it was 2.0. What is
Rome 3.0 is undecided[1], but I believe that in any case Rome 3.0 now is deep
in the history. Deeper that Columbus and discovering of America. Though
Mussolini renewed idea with fascist Italy as a Third Rome. So, I believe, that
Rome 4.0 is the least version number applicable.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome)

~~~
BatFastard
One thing I will give the Roman's, they went out and fought their own wars. No
bones spurs there.

~~~
dotancohen
Actually, towards the end the Romans were hiring mercenaries, many of them
foreign.

------
thisisit
_One of Bill Gates ' investment firms has spent $80 million to kickstart the
development of a brand-new community in the far West Valley.

The large plot of land is about 45 minutes west of downtown Phoenix off I-10
near Tonopah.

The proposed community, made up of close to 25,000 acres of land, is called
Belmont. According to Belmont Partners, a real estate investment group based
in Arizona, the goal is to turn the land into its own "smart city." _

Belmont Partners seem to be pushing the "smart city" angle but they are not
one of the aforementioned _Bill Gates ' investment firm_. So it's only second
hand knowledge?

Much more toned down story on the land acquisition here:

[http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/real-
estate/catherine-r...](http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/real-
estate/catherine-reagor/2017/11/08/bill-gates-cascade-invests-belmont-real-
estate-development-near-phoenix/842280001/)

------
11thEarlOfMar
I've recently been considering exactly the opposite. A place where I can take
a 'technology vacation'. Perhaps extended. Most HNers probably couldn't
comprehend a world without Internet-connected wireless computers, but in that
time, one could actually think for hours about a single idea, concept, design,
desire or plan without interruption. Or one could just read a book cover to
cover. Sure, just 'turn your smartphone off', but just knowing that so much
information is flowing through it and that something you may 'need to know'
might transpire while you've got it powered off makes it a bit like
withdrawal.

Let's build a 'quiet place' we can share with friends and family that is
completely unplugged, with one landline phone downstairs in the hall, a
newspaper on the porch in the morning, and a library full of books we've
always meant to read....

It would be like re-charging your brain from the attenuation of interruption.

~~~
EastLondonCoder
It’s a very good idea, the restorative effects on taking a break from modern
life has been practiced a long time in Scandinavia. Both my brother and my
father has tech intensive stressful jobs in healthcare and keeps their minds
by hiking, cycling, skiing and kayaking. These types of activities or
relationship with nature does have a term called friluftsliv.

Personally I think the effects are similar to meditation when you are on a
long hike.

[https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-
resources/blogs...](https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-
resources/blogs/how-friluftsliv-can-help-you-reconnect-with-nature)

~~~
closeparen
I have a hard time doing these things without a car. Being able to reach a
nature site/park/recreation area on public transit with a huge group of people
makes it feel like just an extension of the city and city life. You’re
surrounded by a mob of people with their phone cameras out, even if you don’t
have yours.

How do countries without mass car ownership pull this off?

------
gervase
One thing that I haven't seen discussed, but I think is something that _may_
be a factor in the site selection, is the future of online presence.

Specifically, I think it's plausible that advancements in VR over the next 20
years will drastically enhance the ability of people to work remotely; I
believe that was one of the justifications provided by Facebook for their
purchase of Oculus, and may also be one of the reasons behind Microsoft's push
into "Mixed Reality".

A major factor for housing desirability currently is its physical proximity to
jobs (SF, NYC, etc.); this could be a way to hedge a bet against that trend.
And at $80M, it's really not a huge investment in the grand scheme of things.
The biggest question is if VR can bridge the "uncanny valley" of video chat
and other current technologies, and make virtual interaction/communication as
seamless as in-person communication (or at least, within some acceptable
margin).

If you're going to be sitting in what's essentially an air-conditioned VR
cocoon for 8-10 hours a day, it probably doesn't matter where that's located,
provided that the infrastructure is good. Since infrastructure seems to be one
of the stated priorities, it could serve as a prototype for a "virtual
outpost".

~~~
hyperpallium
The VR problem is latency. We _should_ be able to get
sense/computation/display down to the 10-15ms required, but distance
introduces additional latency, due to _c_. If a ns is roughly a foot, 15ms is
15000 feet, gives a theoretical maximum diameter (not radius) for remote "city
limits".

~~~
throwaway613834
> The VR problem is latency. We _should_ be able to get
> sense/computation/display down to the 10-15ms required, but distance
> introduces additional latency, due to _c_. If a ns is roughly a foot, 15ms
> is 15000 feet, gives a theoretical maximum diameter (not radius) for remote
> "city limits".

Wow, the VR problem is _latency_? Have you ever had a real-time conversation
with anyone outside your hemisphere? If 15ms is 15,000 feet then 1/0.015 = 66
times that should be the speed of light, i.e. 300,000 km/s. Does that (66 x
15,000 ft = 300,000 km) seem even vaguely in the right ballpark to you?

You're off by a factor of 1000. It's 15 microseconds, not milliseconds. And
incidentally, this might be a good excuse to go travel outside the country and
meet people from elsewhere on the planet... you never know what you might
learn about the world around you.

~~~
hyperpallium
You're being somewhat uncharitable of an off-the-cuff milli/micro error, and
going on to make incorrect personal assumptions.

~~~
future1979
I thought your 15ms comment was correct. It is 16ms motion to photon latency.
Why microseconds?

~~~
MaulingMonkey
15ms is correct (or even wildly optimistic) for VR on account of hardware
buffering for GPU throughput / input filtering for stability, etc., LCD
reaction times, and other local software and hardware stuff.

The part that's not correct is 15ms ~ 15,000 feet @ c:

    
    
      15ns ~ 15 ft
      15us ~ 15,000 ft
      15ms ~ 15,000,000 ft
    

1ns ~ 0.9836 ft per
[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=speed+of+light+*+1+nan...](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=speed+of+light+*+1+nanosecond+in+feet)

Some other fun figures:
[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=earth+circumference](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=earth+circumference)

    
    
      Light travel time t in vacuum from t = x/c: | 134 ms (milliseconds)
      Light travel time t in an optical fiber t = 1.48x/c: | 198 ms (milliseconds)
    

You wouldn't want to wait for a camera to turn in response to head movement at
these distances, but we're already warping buffers in VR to reduce apparent
latency - to hide it better for head rotations. You wouldn't want to try and
directly control twitchy aircraft or race cars with this kind of latency, but
this is still under e.g. throttle response times on a modern car, and you've
probably dealt with worse round trip ping times for online gaming.

------
johnohara
I'd call it "smart," but not in the technical sense.

First, the Central Arizona Project borders to the north, providing good access
to water _before_ it reaches Phoenix.

Second, it would have access to some of the best solar energy concentrations
per meter squared of anywhere on the planet including the Sahara Desert. Agua
Caliente is just to the southwest, north of I-8.

Third, close proximity to 345-500 kva transmission lines just to its west and
presumably access to the main natural gas pipelines that run through on their
way to Phoenix.

Fourth, open access to I-10 running from L.A. to Jacksonville, FL. and the
added bonus of the I-11 corridor which is just getting started to the east
(the 303) intending to run from Mexico to Canada.

Fifth, a clean slate land-wise to build whatever you'd like.

This is a carefully crafted, well researched, and for anyone who's been to the
west valley lately, easily envisioned, project to be completed over the next
fifteen years.

Interesting idea Bill.

------
gallerdude
I've always been infinitely curious about how Walt Disney's original vision
for Epcot would've turned out. I'll be watching this with interest.

~~~
ronilan
Celebration, Florida?

 _Disney CEO Michael Eisner took an especially keen interest in the
development of the new town in the early days, encouraging the executives at
Disney Development Company to "make history" and develop a town worthy of the
Disney brand and legacy that extended to Walt Disney's vision of an
Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow (EPCOT)._

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida)

~~~
MentallyRetired
I'm literally typing this from Celebration, FL, where I live. Disney doesn't
own the place, they just put forth the planning. They do retain some land in
the area through various sub-companies, though.

~~~
silverlight
Do you enjoy living there overall? My wife and I have talked about moving
there sometimes. We have two boys 4 and 6 and like the idea of a close knit
community, walking to parks, etc.

------
dcosson
Odd that there's no mention of mass transit for a sustainable city, just a new
freeway connecting it to Phoenix.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Yeah, I'm curious whether land use/transportation model will be urbanist or
more the suburban sprawl typical of the region.

America is flooded with the latter (particularly for younger cities), not many
with the former.

~~~
dcosson
Yeah it will be interesting to see how it plays out. It also doesn't mention
anything about clean energy now that I look at it again. If it's just a
Phoenix suburb but with really good fiber internet, lenient self-driving car
laws, and a bunch of software contracts for the city & county offices, that
doesn't seem very interesting.

Another thing I just realized is that in my mind a big part of a new
experimental "smart city" would be lots of dense, walkable and bike-able,
mixed use neighborhoods (and public transit which also kind of requires areas
around stations to be walkable). But it's way too hot to be outside for much
of the year in that part of the country.

------
milofeynman
I felt like Amazon should do this with their new headquarters. I'm sure the
cost is too high, but instead of making one of our crowded cities even worse
they could try building a city/suburb. Build it 45 minutes outside of a
current city so you could still rely on airports and other necessities until
you could build your own. With global warming, I probably wouldn't have chosen
Arizona though.

~~~
justinv
I was thinking about this the other day at work (at Amazon) - there would be
such an incredible array of opportunities by starting to build a city from
scratch. I think it would be really different from cities that we know today
and there would be a big opportunity to experiment with urban planning.

But anyways - I doubt this is even minutely likely. Cool thought experiment
nonetheless.

------
PostOnce
Everyone here is so optimistic; no one is talking about a dystopia in which
one man owns everything. Obviously planned experimental cities ala Disney are
cool, and interesting to think about, and perhaps beneficial, but it's worth
playing devil's advocate anyway.

We used to have butchers and bakers and vegetable-sellers and dry goods
stores, then we had supermarkets, and they employed cashiers and truck-drivers
and shelf-stockers.

Now we've got supermarkets with self-checkouts, robot price checkers, soon
shelf stockers, and sooner still self-driving trucks. One guy owns the
warehouse, the supermarket, and the trucks, and employs, essentially, no one.

Now, imagine a city owned by one man, you rent your house from him, buy from
his stores, work in his factory, and let his cars drive you around.

Just because things could work out well doesn't mean they will.

~~~
xor1
Irvine is the closest thing to this that I can imagine in the modern-day US.
Seems to be working out...

~~~
PostOnce
There have been benevolent dictators, it does not mean subsequent dictators
will also be? Should we not be wary?

~~~
sbmassey
As long as people are free to leave, I wouldn't worry about it. If Gates'
plans include a large wall, or making it into a single employer 'company town'
type thing, that might be an issue.

~~~
PostOnce
Being legally free to leave may not mean you're also financially free to do
so. In a hypothetical designed dystopia, your wages and employment would be
such that you couldn't afford to leave the machine that makes the designer
rich.

For example, you wouldn't make enough to save more than $5/week, the rest
would have been spent on food and power and rent. So, if you missed a weeks
work you'd miss a weeks rent. You'd have nothing in the bank to travel to an
out-of-town interview.

Just a theory I don't expect to happen any time soon, but an interesting
thought exercise when a billionaire buys a town.

------
hourislate
Building a city in one the most inhospitable parts of the country? Seriously,
is it going to be underground?

Bobby wasn't kidding when he said Phoenix was "A Monument To Man's Arrogance.
He might as well picked a site on the face of the sun.

~~~
mythrwy
Phoenix is glorious 4 months of the year, tolerable another 4 and downright
nasty the remaining 4.

Pretty much like many Northern states but with the seasons reversed.

(Give me heat over snow and slush any day of the year.)

~~~
smacktoward
The thing about snow and slush is that they both contain _water._

Lacking water, much of Arizona is not naturally suitable for large-scale human
habitation. People can live there in great numbers today only because enormous
quantities of industrial effort have been expended to bring water there from
the Colorado River (see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Arizona_Project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Arizona_Project)).

Lots of other Western communities pull their water from the Colorado too,
though -- so many that the river is effectively "over-subscribed," meaning
people are pulling more water out of it than nature is putting in. Current
projections are that its water levels will drop so low as to provoke serious
crises in the communities that depend on it sometime in the 2020s.

Until then, though, enjoy the sunshine!

~~~
mythrwy
Not all of Phoenix's water comes from the Colorado (and in fact not most of it
I don't believe).

Phoenix is sometimes called "Valley of the Sun". Well, it's not in the
mountains, (there are some low mountains around I guess but not really
"mountains"). It's called a valley because it's a river valley at the con-flux
of several smaller rivers (the Gila, the Salt). Granted these are kind of dry
most of the time but water flows underground also. So there are a lot of
wells. And water comes from rain and snow melt in the mountains to the north.

To your point though it still isn't sustainable at growing population levels.
My understanding that much of the well water used is from rain that fell
during the last ice age. That's why they call it Phoenix probably. One day it
will burn up.

But this is a futuristic city on the outskirts. Presumably it will have a
sustainable water supply created with cosmic zeolith ions, heavy duty science
and good karma :)

------
tghw
For those who don't want a giant photo of Bill Gates because the link is to
the mobile version:

[http://www.kgw.com/news/bill-gates-buys-big-chunk-of-land-
in...](http://www.kgw.com/news/bill-gates-buys-big-chunk-of-land-in-arizona-
to-build-smart-city/491135744)

------
aorloff
Fantastic. If someone can figure out a better way to implement the constantly
dug up and paved infrastructure, early childhood education, and basic services
of the modern economy (electricity, internet, water, sewer and maybe gas) that
would help everyone in every city.

------
cjcenizal
Funny coincidence, but this is the same region where Paolo Soleri founded
Arcosanti [1], another attempt at a utopian city.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcosanti)

~~~
dogruck
Sorta. Arcosanti is north of Phoenix, half way to Flagstaff. Belmont is west
of Phoenix.

------
pmoriarty
Did anyone else just have a flashback to Transcendence?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_%282014_film%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendence_%282014_film%29)

------
notadoc
Ok, and what’s the plan for water? Harvest the monsoon?

~~~
jay-anderson
[https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservices/resourcesconservation/...](https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservices/resourcesconservation/drought-
information/climatechange/water-supply-q-a) \- Phoenix has pretty good water
management. That said more water conservation measures in general would be
good for the southwest.

------
wav-part
More informative and most likely original source article :
[https://brewaz.com/hot-news/bill-gates-entity-
invests-80-mil...](https://brewaz.com/hot-news/bill-gates-entity-
invests-80-million-to-buy-controlling-interest-in-belmont-project/)

------
Iv
Oh and some other rich guy (crown Prince of Saudi Arabia) announced NEOM, a
plan for a sustainable, connected and automated city in which he will invest
500 BILLIONS (not a typo, Google it). Of which 93 are scheduled for R&D in a
fund comanaged with Softbank.

But yes, this bill gates thing is nice too...

------
Phanyxx
"The large plot of land is about 45 minutes west of downtown Phoenix off I-10
near Tonopah."

More like Smart Exurb?

~~~
TulliusCicero
See, as an urbanist, I still think this could be cool if they included a rail
link to downtown Phoenix in the design. But that's, uh, probably not
realistic, which means freeways, which means the town itself will probably
just use the typical suburban sprawl model typical of Phoenix and its suburbs.

------
jhiska
It's no longer enough to build some buildings; now they have to be "smart"
somehow.

It's like my headphones that promise me to "take you places", but my travel
agency -- which actually takes me to places -- promises me to "take you into
your dreams."

------
ashnehete
How much ever we talk about the engineering and technological aspects of this.
I think this project still warrants a discussion into the intricacies of the
human psychology that goes behind a city/township. Basically, the UI/UX of
this whole project.

------
WalterBright
Sun City is another planned community in Arizona.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_City,_Arizona](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_City,_Arizona)

------
tspike
Would love to read an interview about the decision making process. I'm
especially interested if sustainability factored in, given Arizona's
relationship with water resources.

~~~
inputcoffee
They have some of the best solar irradiance.

Free energy would solve any water problems.

~~~
retailbuyout
> Free energy would solve any water problems.

Oh really now? I had no idea we could pull water out of our ass for any number
of people at any time with free energy!

~~~
B1FF_PSUVM
> pull water out of our ass

Feasible, but out of thin air is easier and less disturbing. Places in Arizona
seem to have around 40 or 50% average air humidity.

And air conditioners are good at getting water out of air.

~~~
retailbuyout
Frankly, I had no idea the humidity was that high in Arizona! Color me
impressed.

------
sysdyne
Wouldn't have been better if he just gaved money to upgrade a city? Yeah, a
lot of bureaucracy but look to other "planned" smart cities! Millions of
wasted moneys in some ghost towns, not to mention the ecological effects it
has. I'm disappointed in Bill Gates. I though he was better than this. Sure if
it's a just a little town it might work and get some profit out of it but i
though he was more of a philanthropist, now at his age.

~~~
iwintermute
So you don't think he's aware of previous attempts?)

------
future1979
Smart city ... no traffic, affordable houses, public transit

------
arca_vorago
I don't want to live in a smart city not built on foss. The surveillance and
other dystopian issues that are going to come from someone like Gates making a
smart city send shivers up my spine. I do wonder though, now he is being more
philanthropic, if he would consider allowing his city to be more foss friendly
at least, or is he still married to the MS platform? My guess would say the
latter but I don't know that.

------
pcarolan
The decision to do this in Arizona seems odd out the gate. Depending on water
from the Colorado is immediately net negative sustainable.

~~~
fastball
It's a "smart city", not a sustainable city. Not the same thing. From the
article:

    
    
      Belmont will create a forward-thinking community with a communication and infrastructure spine 
      that embraces cutting-edge technology, designed around high-speed digital networks, data centers,
      new manufacturing technologies and distribution models, autonomous vehicles and autonomous logistics hubs

~~~
pcarolan
I would argue you can't call something smart if it isn't sustainable.

~~~
fastball
Ok, but that's not really how anyone is currently using the phrase "smart
_____". Smart watches are usually not solar powered. Neither are smart phones.
Neither are smart homes. Neither is your smart TV. You get the idea.

How about if we have sustainable cities, smart cities, and "intelligent
cities", the last of which encompasses the previous two.

------
ChuckMcM
Not a lot of information in the article. And apparently Ron Schott didn't
realize Biosphere 2 was pretty technological :-).

I wish however he would also consider how we can build a village that has a
reasonably self sustained ecosystem so that people who no longer can function
in a "tech city" would have a place to live that would be supportive.

------
m3kw9
Could this be Gates undoing? There is so much variables that can rack up
costs, let alone red tapes and fraudsters

~~~
mythrwy
1) Bill Gates has been around the block a time or two. He's not a fool by any
stretch of imagination.

2) It would take and awfully lot of red tape and fraudsters to undo what he
has amassed.

------
adanto6840
Interesting & unique -- lots of thoughts go through my mind. I'm very curious
to hear what transportation model/thinking, (if any[thing unique]), is used.
It's not something I'm aware of him weighing in on (ie hyperloop vs rail vs
autonomous, etc).

------
toomuchcredit
Would be great if he decides to forgo the capital appreciation, with a lease
only policy. If this is successful, speculation in property is the disease
we'd like to avoid.

Otherwise we'd get another property bubble and inflated costs soon enough.

------
matt4077
_Ronald Schott, executive emeritus at the Arizona Technology Council, says the
land Gates ' company purchased is in a good spot, in part due to the proposed
I-11 freeway, which would run right through Belmont and connect to Las Vegas._

That sentence is such a grandiosely engineered testament to everything that's
wrong with urban planning in the US.

Bill Gates has done excellent things (after Windows). And this _executive
emeritus_ (aka pensioner) isn't connected to the project, and his point, if
interpreted with good will, isn't actually wrong. But still: could there be
anything more uninspiring than that sentence?

------
inputcoffee
Sidewalk Labs is making Toronto a smart city, and Amazon is presumably going
to develop a second HQ. three investment opportunities, folks

------
klondike_
I don't know if he's using this as a proof of concept or if he actually plans
on making a functioning city. If it's the latter, I doubt it'll succeed.

Ideas for "utopian" planned cities have existed for centuries (Like Walt
Disney's original vision for Epcot) but they almost never get built. If they
do, they end up being not much more than a novelty before becoming abandoned.

~~~
goatherders
Disagree. Master planned communities are nothing new. This is the same thing,
just with some "celebrity" behind it and 21st century features. I expect to
see more and more of this.

~~~
dogruck
Brazil’s capital, Brasilia, is a massive master planned city.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras%C3%ADlia)

------
jumpkickhit
If there's fiber optic internet with no caps, i'm sold.

~~~
notyourwork
That exists in lots of cities already.

------
chrisweekly
Walt Disney World 2.0?

------
wmccullough
It would be swell if folks in this thread could stop pretending Bill Gates is
a moron. I mean seriously, I swear folks with no real experience feel the need
to chime in and pretend their ignorance is as good as everyone else’s
intelligence.

~~~
soperj
I guess you start seeing what he's done to education in the U.S, and you make
your own judgment.

~~~
sametmax
It doesn't mean he is dumb. It just mean his agenda is not to help people but
personal gain.

Gates has been engaged in a massive PR campaign on a lot of websites to gain
some kind of stairway to heaven for a few years now.

You'll find than, while in the 90' we all were strongly shocked by how he
managed a company so powerful, and yet engaged in lying, cheating and
corrupting institutions.

But today you have many supporters claiming he is an awesome person with all
his humanitarian work, publicized by social media with quite precise
targeting. It seems you can get away with hitting somebody in the face and
stealing his money if you come back later with pictures of all the cats you
are saving.

So no. Not dumb.

------
pixelpoet
Non-mobile link: [http://www.kgw.com/news/bill-gates-buys-big-chunk-of-land-
in...](http://www.kgw.com/news/bill-gates-buys-big-chunk-of-land-in-arizona-
to-build-smart-city/491135744)

~~~
sctb
Thanks, we've updated it from [http://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/bill-
gates-buys-big-c...](http://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/bill-gates-buys-
big-chunk-of-land-in-arizona-to-build-smart-city/491135744).

------
saosebastiao
In Arizona? They're off to a bad start.

~~~
paulddraper
How so? They don't have to worry about snow, land is reasonably cheap. Not
much water but this isn't a farm.

~~~
saosebastiao
Even in the current state, it’s not sustainable due to the water situation.
Arizona is already fighting with Nevada and Southern California over the water
supply of a single lake.

And it’s only going to get worse.

~~~
nirv
No longer[1].

[1] [https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Omniprocessor-From-
Po...](https://www.gatesnotes.com/Development/Omniprocessor-From-Poop-to-
Potable)

~~~
snarfy
This isn't something that will be solved with technology. Water treatment
plants already turn poop into water. Unsurprisingly, Phoenix AZ has one of the
highest levels in the world of toilet paper particulates in the water, due to
how much treated water is reused.

------
raides
Tony Stark already did this.

------
oldgun
Is it going to spy on its citizens with all the 'smart' devices? Given
Microsoft's record of protecting user privacy I guess I probably won't be
wanting to move there very soon.

