
Melatonin - gwern
http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin
======
realitygrill
I use melatonin regularly to regulate my sleep cycle. It's a very effective
part of a regimen (sleep hygiene, f.lux, etc) that allows me to manage a
nearly-decade long problem of insomnia.

However, from a psychological standpoint, it's a very good thing melatonin is
so safe. Every single person I've ever recommended melatonin to, I've directed
to this article and discussed it with them. Every single such person then went
ahead to promptly forget the discussion, NOT read the article, and take mildly
retarded doses. For example, "one (5mg) pill didn't work, so I took 8 more at
4am." Another uses it almost recreationally - large doses to intensify his
dreams; pretty much zero attempt to use it to improve his sleep. I don't talk
to people about melatonin anymore.

For a quicker idea of where melatonin sits vis-à-vis other sleep drugs
(WARNING: Hilarious Ambien Walrus referenced):
[http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/28/sleep-now-by-
prescripti...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/28/sleep-now-by-
prescription/)

~~~
jimzvz
I have terrible sleep habits and often find it difficult to fall asleep before
5am. I have been considering trying melatonin but my major concern is that I
will become dependent on it. I don't want my body to stop producing whatever
small amount it already does through its use as a supplement.

How dependent on it would you say you are? How well would you function if you
were unable to get hold of it?

~~~
afterburner
It's not addictive. In fact I found myself not wanting to take it after a
while because I had so much energy from getting good sleep, I wanted to stay
up late doing stuff. (Even though I should, so I get to sleep at a decent
hour.)

I recommended 1mg per 50lbs of body weight, and get the fast acting one, not
the slow-dissolving one; those made me drowsy the next morning.

It is a little harder to snap to attention right after waking up, but I shake
that off quickly; probably a sign I slept well.

It does affect everyone differently though. I haven't had any negative effects
myself, other than with the slow-dissolving "long-lasting" pills (but some
might need that to stay asleep).

~~~
realitygrill
Interesting. I'm not sure I've seen extended-release melatonin. IIRC melatonin
does not help you stay asleep, so that would be fairly useless.

I recommend starting at the smallest dose you can find designed for sublingual
(under-the-tongue dissolving) administration. 0.3mg to 1mg is a good range.

~~~
afterburner
This is the extended release one that made me sleepy the next day:

[http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/node/1418](http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/node/1418)

This is the one I use that works great:

[http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/chocolate_mint_melatonin](http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/chocolate_mint_melatonin)

------
jobu
My youngest daughter is borderline ADHD, and rather than trying Ritalin we've
been using Melatonin in the evenings to help ease the bedtime process. (In the
hopes that more sleep will help her cope with problems focusing.)

The change has been dramatic. Previously it was a 3-4 hour battle each night
for her to get ready for bed and stay in bed. Now with 3mg of Melatonin she
spontaneously decides to get ready for bed herself and goes to sleep in
minutes.

The most interesting thing about Melatonin isn't that it makes you drowsy or
helps you sleep, it's that it increases the _desire_ for sleep. While I don't
usually have trouble sleeping, it's often hard to break myself free from a
computer or a device at night, and Melatonin changes this. As the author says,
"It works."

~~~
pstuart
3mg might be too much. I am not a doctor, but my sleep doctor is, and she
recommended half that amount -- right around sunset.

~~~
Fishkins
I remember reading in at least one study that there's no added benefit of
doses above 1mg. I checked the "Brzezinski et al" article and it says:

    
    
      The dose response relationships in 11 of the studies 
      (see Refs. 17,18) support the existence of a plateau
      effect, with maximum effect generally being achieved
      at low doses (e.g. 0.3 mg) and maintained or 
      diminished at higher doses.

------
jtheory
I don't have personal experience with it; but my sleep schedule is horrible (I
tend to stay up to 5am on alternate nights), so I may give it a try to enforce
a normal bedtime, and kick the procrastination monster down a bit (if I don't
have the _option_ of doing the unpleasant work at 2am, it's far easier to
force myself to do it during normal hours).

But: see here, this is very relevant:
[http://hpmor.com/notes/98/](http://hpmor.com/notes/98/)

Search MetaMed (a few screens down) for Eliezer Yudkowsky's experience with a
sleep disorder (his normal day is 24.5 hours): after spending years trying a
whole laundry list of solutions including melatonin, he finally paid MetaMed
somewhere north of $5K for their analysis, and got a solution using melatonin
that worked (but was not the normal approach to melatonin supplementation).

 _" their best suggestion, although it had little or no clinical backing, was
that I should take my low-dose melatonin 5-7 hours before bedtime, instead of
1-2 hours, a recommendation which I’d never heard anywhere before.

And it worked.

I can’t _#&$ing believe that # _$%ing worked.

(EDIT in response to reader questions: ”Low-dose” melatonin is 200microgram
(mcg) = 0.2 mg. Currently I’m taking 0.2mg 5.5hr in advance, and taking 1mg
timed-release just before closing my eyes to sleep. However, I worked up to
that over time – I started out just taking 0.3mg total, and I would recommend
to anyone else that they start at 0.2mg.)"_

~~~
Lost_BiomedE
This is how I do it as well. I use 300 microgram time released at sunset. Then
a 1000 microgram instant release before bed. The 1000 microgram is not needed
for me to get good sleep, but it puts my dosage at where body temp drops can
be seen.

------
ChristianMarks
Gwern comes close to suggesting filtering blue light, but I will repeat a
previous post. I've tried melatonin, but it is no substitute for for filtering
blue light in my experience, and it tends to induce horrific, apocalyptic
nightmares (granted, a night dreaming of EAS Emergency Action Notifications is
better than no sleep at all).

I used to be an owl for years--decades. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of
reach. All previous attempts quickly led to backsliding and accusations of
moral failure. However, I found that an involuntary physiological response to
artificial light in the range 460-484nm was involved.

This May I changed my environment by filtering out blue light after 8PM,
turning off white lamps and turing on amber compact fluorescents. I'm asleep ~
10PM and up usually ~ 5AM. This is now my regular schedule. It would have been
inconceivable for me six months ago.

I use the following:

1\. Inexpensive Uvex amber goggles from Amazon:
[http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-
Anti...](http://www.amazon.com/Uvex-S0360X-Ultra-spec-SCT-Orange-Anti-
Fog/dp/B003OBZ64M/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1379337848&sr=1-2&keywords=uvex+amber+glasses)
Wear them at least an hour or two before bedtime. I also have the considerably
more expensive glasses from lowbluelights.com. In my experience, the
inexpensive goggles work just as well, although the more expensive glasses
filter more blue light.

2\. I replaced most of the white compact fluorescent lights in my apartment
with amber compact fluorescent lights
[https://www.lowbluelights.com/index.asp](https://www.lowbluelights.com/index.asp)

3\. And I use a sunrise simulator alarm clock. [http://www.amazon.com/Philips-
HF3520-Wake-Up-Colored-Simulat...](http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HF3520-Wake-
Up-Colored-
Simulation/dp/B0093162RM/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1380118779&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=philips+dawn+simulator)
Sometimes I forget to set the clock--now I don't seem to need it.

Not to mention f.lux (pardon the paralipsis), though again, in my experience,
filtering is necessary.

Concerning the scientific basis for the claim that blue light in the range
460-484nm suppresses melatonin production, here is one reference:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_ganglion_cell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_ganglion_cell)

Moral: Nagging and moralizing was both uninformative and ineffective. Science
and engineering was both informative and effective.

~~~
tedks
> it tends to induce horrific, apocalyptic nightmares

I've used melatonin for years, as have many of my friends and family, and I've
never had anyone mention this. I've always had more vivid dreams with
melatonin, but I've never had nightmares.

~~~
goldfeld
Perhaps it's something to do with particular makes of the drug, but I've also
had my worst nightmares while on it, and the words GP used are spot on for me.
My mom, aunt and other members of my family had similar experiences and we've
mostly stopped taking it. I did partly because it no longer has the surefire
effect it once had on me, and partly because I'd often wake up in a
crappy/despairing mood because of the apocalyptic nightmares.

On the other hand, I really miss it back when it worked mostly wonderfully. I
coupled my intake with an experiment on segmented sleep, where I'd take it
some time before 4pm and sleep till around 9pm, often waking up in a so called
"writer's mood," and then sleep again (without Melatonin) from roughly 1am
till 4am. I tend to be a very unfocused person, but on these intervals between
first sleep and second sleep I'd feel in an elevated state of consciousness
where my focus was like a laser I could point anywhere. Sublime is a good
word, everything feels light and effortless, and the right thoughts just flow
when you need them. I'm sure people have felt similarly while on other kinds
of drugs, which is interesting to say the least. But I was sober and really
productive, and have written my best fiction in this way.

~~~
tedks
Melatonin isn't a drug, it's the neurohormone that provokes sleep. Your body
produces it naturally already.

~~~
jleyank
Damn straight it's a drug. It's one your body just happens to produce. It's
having a biochemical interaction at concentrations far less than would be
required for a chemical reaction (such as neutralizing acid in the stomach
with calcium carbonate). Similar to using the pill to modify the reproductive
cycle.

------
pesenti
_Melatonin is a clear-cut Good Thing. The gains I have laid out are large
enough I consider it irrational for someone not to use it._

I consider it irrational for someone to believe that a limited number of hand-
selected studies can give you absolute confidence.

~~~
thebooktocome
First, it's not a "limited number of hand-selected studies." The Brzezinski
meta-study (
[http://www.gwern.net/docs/melatonin/2005-brzezinski.pdf](http://www.gwern.net/docs/melatonin/2005-brzezinski.pdf)
) alone covered 17 studies and 284 participants. There's even a clear, well-
documented causal mechanism, which can't be said for most of the supplement
industry.

Even if it were a limited number of studies, gwern's not going for "absolute
confidence". (Indeed, requiring "absolute confidence" before attempting a
thing is irrational by the following sentence.) Irrational here means doing
something with expected value less than zero. If you're a person living in an
industrialized society with ready access to electrical lighting -- the
possible gains are too large to be balanced out by the time wasted trying it.
That's what gwern's saying.

~~~
pesenti
And how do you claim to calculate expected value here? You are making the same
error he is by ignoring the possible "black swan", which, with every drug, can
have dramatic consequences.

A positive but cautious conclusion like
[http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/m...](http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/melatonin.htm#Conclusions%20on%20Melatonin)
would have been much more appropriate.

~~~
gwern
> You are making the same error he is by ignoring the possible "black swan",
> which, with every drug, can have dramatic consequences.

The black swan is a pretty useless concept at this point, because people like
you will drag it out against anything they dislike. You cannot give any
rigorous formulation or evidence for it, and the best you can do is drag out
some old example like thalidomide.

~~~
pesenti
No rigorous formulation? The black swan has a very simple mathematical model:
an unlikely event with an effect so great that it will affect the expected
value. For example, a greater risk of dying after 20 or 30 years of use -
which has not yet been studied. In your calculation of ROI you completely
ignore unknown long term effects.

Yes it's hard and often impossible to quantify black swans. But keeping them
in mind is a way to avoid overconfident articles like the one you wrote.

~~~
gwern
> The black swan has a very simple mathematical model: an unlikely event with
> an effect so great that it will affect the expected value. For example, a
> greater risk of dying after 20 or 30 years of use - which has not yet been
> studied. In your calculation of ROI you completely ignore unknown long term
> effects.

Alright, let me clarify it then: by the remotely meaningful version presented
by Taleb, your argument doesn't work and Taleb's writings support taking
melatonin, rather than not taking melatonin. Why? Because even in the event of
a negative 'black swan' your losses are strictly limited: the worse that can
happen is you die. In fact, if I may borrow Taleb's 2x2 table from _The Black
Swan_ where he brings up positive 'black swans' as well, it's easier to make a
case that taking melatonin is a positive 'black swan': the negative
possibilities are strictly in Mediocristan, with limited losses, easy to
measure over large populations, predictable, not varying over time; while the
positive possibilities look like some of Taleb's examples of attempting to
exploit positive 'black swans' in Absurdistan - improved productivity,
healthy, and seizing opportunities, things with potentially unlimited payoffs
- such as moving to cities and networking with people.

> For example, a greater risk of dying after 20 or 30 years of use - which has
> not yet been studied.

FUD.

~~~
gwern
> That's true of every black swan - the worst that can happen is everybody
> dies.

Not at all. Taleb like to use the example of selling insurance and shorts,
where your downside is unlimited. Millions, billions, trillions... Think AIG
or LTCM. Not everything has consequences solely for health.

> You do not mention any studies of long term effects and you consider FUD
> raising the possibility that there could be adverse effects.

In the absence of any evidence whatsoever for that, and plenty of positive
correlations, short-term studies without any problem... Yes. It is FUD. Fear,
uncertainty, and doubt.

> When more and more studies show negative long term effect of substances that
> were considered innocuous (like vitamins), it's not FUD, it's being
> reasonably cautious.

Only some vitamins show any mortality effects, the mortality effects while
real are pretty small, the vitamins did not deliver the _long-term_ health
benefits promised (but never really demonstrated in experiments) which might
offset the harm, and the vitamins were being consumed in huge doses. The first
reduces the possibility of any such outcome, the second points out that you
are exaggerating the harm, the third means that vitamins were a purely
speculative play unlike melatonin, and the fourth reduces the concern that any
such thing would happen with melatonin when one sticks to the suggested doses
like 0.5mg rather than 5mg.

~~~
pesenti
If everybody died, money would have no value. So yes, it's always worse than
losing an unlimited amount of money.

------
ChikkaChiChi
The problem with a lack of FDA regulation is that there is no guarantee on
what you are taking. The freshness of the product and the veracity of what's
in the pills will always be suspect to me.

If I could trust where I get my melatonin from, I would gladly take it. But
I've learned too much about how terrible this industry is.

~~~
Lost_BiomedE
I don't trust many, but I do trust Nature's Way, Now Foods, and Jarrows. They
do proper batching and testing.

~~~
thuzarsky
I'd also strongly recommend the Trader Joe's brand. I've been using melatonin
for a couple of years and haven't found anything that has been as consistently
effective.

~~~
desigooner
I've heard many of TJs supplements are white labelled Nature's way products

------
nulagrithom
Melatonin does work wonders, but you never know how your own body might react
to it.

I have many issues with my sleep cycle and quality of sleep. Melatonin is one
of the few things that alleviates my problems. However, for me, it's only good
for one night. I can take melatonin for one night out of a month, and get a
blissful, restful night of sleep. If I take it two nights in a row, evil side-
effects start creeping up.

It begins with a headache. If I take melatonin two nights in a row, the next
day I will wake up with a headache that's hard to shake. My dreams, while very
vivid and pleasant the first night, become more gloomy and depressing the
second night. By the third day, my dreams are full-on, vivid, terrifying
nightmares. I feel depressed and angry all day, and the headache borders a
migraine. After four days of melatonin, I'm a wreck. It no longer puts me to
sleep, nor gives me restful sleep. It becomes nothing more than a pill full of
nightmares, depression, anger, and a bad migraine.

The first time I started taking melatonin, I had no idea it was causing these
side effects. It took a while to pin down, and I just assumed it was related
to my ongoing battle with sleep. I do recommend it, just know that you may
have adverse reactions to continued use.

~~~
Kronopath
I'm curious as to what dosage you're taking. Several sources I've seen suggest
the dosage they recommend on the package is too high for many of the typical
brands out there. Do you experience these symptoms when taking low-dose
melatonin (<= 0.5 mg)?

~~~
nulagrithom
I've tried both high and low dose, and many different brands. Effects are the
same either way. I usually go with the high dose since I'll only be taking it
for one night anyway.

------
bane
My wife is a terrible sleeper -- around bed-time she'll suddenly want to do
various household chores, vacuum, chat endlessly etc., that combined with
irregular and often stressful work, my usually very regular sleep pattern has
been totally annihilated over the last 5-10 years.

It also reached the point in the last year that I needed to be at one work
site a few days a week, but at 6am, then another site different days at 9am,
then work from home the rest of the time which meant trying to "catch up" with
a 10-11am wakeup.

I finally broke down and started taking 3 mg of Melatonin, but _only_ if I've
had 2 recurring nights if bad sleep. The effect is kind of strange. About
20-30 minutes after taking it, my strongest desire in the world is to want to
go to bed, but it doesn't exactly make me "sleepy". After my head hitting my
pillow, I'm asleep in about 10 minutes. If I need to, I'll take it multiple
days in a row until I feel like my sleep cycle is sorted out, then I stop.
I'll also take it if I need to suddenly change my cycle and get up very early
the next day or something. Wakefulness comes smoothly and refreshingly, not
jarring.

I finally got my wife to start taking it and now all the fuss over getting her
to go to sleep has ended completely. As soon as she starts wanting to do
things and it's late at night, she pops a Melatonin pill and is asleep inside
of 40 minutes.

It's absolutely transformed our sleep/work/live/wake cycles. It feels like I
can finally wrestle a bit of control back from an overburdened modern life.

The only problem is that the next day I usually feel very cloudy headed the
entire day and have a mild urge to go back to bed until mid-afternoon.

~~~
taralx
The cloudy headed thing is almost certainly due to a too-large dose. gwern
recommends somewhere around 1/10th of the dose you are taking. I've been
splitting 1mg pills in half.

------
ufmace
Haven't read the article yet, but Melatonin does wonders for my sleep habits.
Without it, it seems like my body really wants to function on a day that's 26
or so hours long. That tends to put me in a constant cycle of being not tired
enough to go to sleep yet, falling asleep too late, not having enough sleep
and being tired all day, then going to sleep the next night too early and
starting over again the next day. Melatonin has made it much easier to get
about the same amount of sleep every night.

------
robmcm
I cut caffeine out of my diet, (apart from chocolate) which has more or less
cured my issues with sleeping. I think I could start drinking it again, but
only pre mid day.

It is very hard to do (headaches, sleepy in the day etc), but worth a shot.

I also use earplugs, which I find it very hard to sleep without now (unless
drunk). They not only block out noise, but you get conditioned that when you
put them in it's time to sleep, it kind of gets you into a sleep mind set.

The other thing I find helps is if I find my mind racing I try and slow my
breathing down as much as I can. I think it works on two levels, I focus on
breathing and free my mind of jumping all over the place and it also slows
your heart rate and therefore oxygen to the brain, which I think has the same
effect :P

~~~
lgieron
It is generally not recommended to sleep in earplugs, as you're risking
inducing a tinnitus. Basically everyone has some background noise in his
ears/head, but it is ordinarily discarded (not brought to consciousness) by
central nerve system as it's much quieter than external sounds - but if you
cut them out, you're risking that your brain becomes aware of that sound and
bam - suddenly you have tinnitus. And it may very well stay with you for the
rest of your life.

~~~
dcherman
Out of curiosity, do you have a source for this? I developed tinnitus last
year and currently do wear earplugs while sleeping, however I certainly don't
want to make it worse.

~~~
lgieron
An audiologist told me that.

~~~
robmcm
Great, insomnia here I come!

------
da02
Why didn't you mention about the effects of a calcified pineal gland resulting
from a Vitamin D and magnesium deficiency? Those are very common among the
older folk, resulting in poor sleep quality, poor immune system, even
increased chance of heart attacks.

~~~
ChikkaChiChi
...and how can this be fixed?

~~~
da02
5,000 - 10,000 i.u.: Vitamin D3 in the morning.

300 - 600 mg: magnesium citrate.

My favorite brand is "30 Minutes of Sunshine"
[http://www.lifespannutrition.com/lsn/products.asp?itemnumber...](http://www.lifespannutrition.com/lsn/products.asp?itemnumber=393)
Bio-Tech Vitamin D3 is also very good:
[http://www.biotechpharmacal.com/](http://www.biotechpharmacal.com/)

------
snowwrestler
Interesting data about melatonin, but I am very wary of appeals to "nature"
and "natural" in articles like this. Such references are often proxies for the
concept of "good" or "healthy", but that's not necessarily true. Epidermal sun
damage is natural too.

For example biphasic sleep is a pattern that arises when the darkness period
is significantly longer than the human need for sleep. If the darkness period
is reduced to about the same length as the sleep need, then the sleep period
is less interrupted. _But humans are not any more or less healthy under either
sleep regime._

~~~
freehunter
>Epidermal sun damage is natural too

If we're talking from an evolutionary stand-point, humans have protections to
keep the sun from killing us. If you're in the sun a lot, you would have
darker skin (or skin that grows darker as the sun's rays increase in intensity
per the season). You wouldn't be spending all day inside in the Midwest and
then be in Brazil the next day. The sun is natural, the way you're exposing
(or not exposing) yourself to it is what is unnatural.

It's the same argument that cyanide is natural. Yeah, but humans tend not to
find cyanide very tasty at all (as an evolutionary protection). People don't
go around eating peach pits just for fun. Pure cyanide being added to foods in
concentrated doses as a poison is a human invention and is not natural.
Melatonin being used by the body to regulate sleep cycles _is_ natural in the
sense that it happens whether we supplement it or not. The unnatural human
invention is to boost the natural effect by taking more, or by taking it at a
specific time rather than trusting our body to fully regulate its production.

------
krmmalik
I've had on and off problems with insomnia, but have finally come up with a
pretty reliable method for overcoming it. Some of my methods were used by
others as well.

I think it's important to identify what's causing the insomnia. It's not
always going to be the same thing for everyone, or even for you, every single
time.

Some days, for me, it's just simply because I have too much on my mind. Other
times, it's because I've had too much stimulation and some times, it's just
because I haven't had enough physical exertion during the day (most of my work
is on a laptop).

Here's the routine that I now employ and I've been really good for a number of
months straight (I helped a friend create a similar "routine" and he even
blogged about it).

So my routine is as follows

1\. No HN, book reading ,or any kind of blogs, reddit etc (basically anything
intellectually stimulating) after 8pm.

2\. Some strenuous physical exertion (e.g. Gym) every 2nd or 3rd day

3\. Anything that puts me into a more relaxed state, e.g Some fresh air at
least half an hr before bed time, writing in a journal if my mind is going
crazy with ideas, or reading some poetry/fiction (but nothing intellectually
stimulating. i.e. something entertaining or relaxing).

4\. No computer screens at least 45mins before bedtime

5\. 1 teaspoon of blackseed oil 5 minutes before bedtime

6\. A decent mattress (Mine is a silentnight miracoil) - Some people don't
realise how important your mattress is and how badly it can affect sleep.

7\. No stimulating conversation at least 45mins before bedtime, that includes
emails, text messages, in-person conversations and phone calls.

I also make sure that i'm out of bed before 8am each day if i want to make
sure I get good sleep for that night.

Basically, i've whittled it down to identifying which state is not in a
relaxed mode and getting it to a desirable state .

i.e. emotional state (writing in a journal or meditative exercise), mental
state (avoiding anything intellectually stimulating), physical state (physical
exertion/blackseed oil/mattress)

~~~
brador
What is the Blackseed oil for?

~~~
krmmalik
Magnesium (amongst other important minerals and fatty acids). To relax the
nervous system.

------
polshaw
I'm disappointed to see no comments here whatsoever that are addressing one of
the central (and AFAICT unsupported) claims of this article-- that regular
melatonin use can reduce the amount of sleep needed by almost an hour.

I have no doubts that melatonin is very useful for getting to sleep quicker,
but if the reduced sleep claim is accurate, then it may move from an
occasional use when needed, to a default use.

There are many melatonin users here- any regular users care to share their
feelings/anecdotes (or better!) on this?

~~~
mattchew
I remarked on this above also. I have early morning waking also (not sure if
it's insomnia or just my getting older).

I use melatonin when I know I'm stressed and would normally have trouble
falling asleep. I try not to use it more than once a week and I am hesitant to
habituate myself to it.

It is an interesting idea that my nights with early waking might nevertheless
be more restful when taking melatonin, but I haven't noticed this
particularly. Presently I am hoping more exercise will get me sleeping more
solidly through the night.

------
mrcharles
I've been using melatonin on and off when I hit a patch of insomnia. It's
pretty good; it just makes me super sleepy. Even with a low dose I end up
groggy in the morning, however. But being able to actually fall asleep when I
would otherwise lay awake for hours is worth the price of admission.

I don't use it regularly but sometimes I just know when I'm going to have
trouble falling asleep, and will take one about a half hour before I'd like to
be asleep. Works like a charm.

~~~
WalterSear
Have you tried taking it earlier in the evening? Half an hour before bed seems
very late.

My professor in psychology grad school presented it's functioning and said
it's best taken not later than ninety minutes before bed.

------
DanielBMarkham
I've been using melatonin for years every night. As a person that has extreme
obstructive sleep apnea, I credit melatonin with providing me a modicum of
restful sleep for the years I didn't use a CPAP. Now that I have one,
melatonin helps improve my "normal" sleep patterns.

Anecdotaly, I find melatonin usage helps my brain rewire itself every night.
My belief is that increases the number of connections and associations that
various concepts have, and it also elevates my mood. Not bad for something
that costs mere pennies!

During the time I had almost no sleep, I would take quite a bit of melatonin
in a desperate attempt to get some kind of rest. At times I would pop 25mg or
more. I found there were no side effects, except perhaps being sleepy for the
next couple of days.

I've also quit a number of times for various reasons. Just a few months ago I
quit for three months due to surgery. I found quitting to be completely
symptom-free, which kind of amazed me. I figured with years of usage, quitting
would make it impossible to sleep. I based this opinion on numerous studies
that show when you replace a naturally-occurring hormone with a supplement,
your body stops producing it. Instead, I slept fine. Once I was out of the no-
supplements period after surgery, I started back up with the melatonin. No
side effects, and I almost immediately noticed an increase in creativity and
mood.

I'm a supplement junkie. It's that irrational thing that I do, my black swan
interest. Yes, I know, most of the market is just BS and marketing hype. But
not all of it. Melatonin is one of the 2 or 3 supplements I use that I believe
really make a huge and immediately perceivable difference. Can't recommend it
highly enough.

~~~
porker
> But not all of it. Melatonin is one of the 2 or 3 supplements I use that I
> believe really make a huge and immediately perceivable difference.

What would the other 2 or 3 be? I've found Vitamin D (taken as a liquid) to be
one.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Vitamin D-3 is one.

Resveratrol is on my "maybe" list. I'm seeing some really interesting
research, but the good stuff may end up being patented and sold as a drug,
which sucks.

I'm still a Vitamin C fan, even though it's fallen out of favor. Seems to help
when I've stressed out my system through alcohol or other chemical irritants.

Also on my "to-watch" list is delta tocotrienols, one of the components of
vitamin E. Saw some interesting evidence that it might be good at actually
helping to remove coronary artery blockage, but it's still WAY preliminary.
And no, that's not a recommendation for vitamin E itself, which in larger
doses can cause all sorts of problems. Just the delta series.

The B series of vitamins are interesting, as there seems to be a good-sized
gap between the amount most people have in their bloodstream and the amount
that they can carry easily. A little dose of B-12 seems to help me enormously
with concentration. At least for a short period. YMMV.

Note this is all subjective, and based on half-assed research and gossip.
That's one of the rules in this arena: there are no rules. :)

------
adamzerner
1) I don't think it's known how big the "addictive" effects are. Meaning, if
you use it a lot, you might get "used to it"(downregulation), and require more
to get the same effect. See the link at the bottom; My doctor told me not to
use it more then 4-5x a week; I have anecdotal evidence of it being less
effective from my use

2) It might not be as effective as you're making it. It surely isn't as simple
as "replacing the melatonin you're lacking". Melatonin you naturally produce
happens in a series of step; the melatonin you take via a pill surpasses some
of these steps, which means there isn't the same effect.

See
[http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm#Melatonin](http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm#Melatonin)

------
yan
I found melatonin to be very effective, especially on mountaineering trips,
where I'm not guaranteed a decent sleeping environment but really need to get
some sleep when given the opportunity.

My girlfriend however reported nightmares when she started supplementing with
it, but it appears to have gotten better.

------
mickgiles
I take it when I travel across time zones to reset my internal clock. Works
great! If I take if for more than 3-4 nights in a row it seems to lose its
effectiveness.

~~~
at-fates-hands
I was going to mention the same thing. I used it when I was flying a lot
internationally and it worked to overcome my jet lag pretty effectively.

Definitely recommend it if you travel internationally.

------
gesman
I works great when you have this "thinking in your sleep and wake up even more
tired" syndrome.

Melatonin related supplemements helps you relax quickly and really sleep deep.
I personally found that taking 1/3 of recommended dose works perfectly. Taking
full doze making me wake up in such a limb state - that it takes me literally
one hour for muscles to get back into their ability to move the body.

Another thing is that I found that taking it for a week or two (no more) is
optimal. Few cycles of deep, relaxed sleep are enough for body/mind to get
into relatively better balance than before.

Adding regular physical exercise to the mix helps to reignite the whole system
back.

~~~
jtheory
How much more deeply does it make you sleep? I have small children; I don't
want to be difficult to wake.

~~~
gesman
I use this (sleep support one):

[http://vibrantme.isagenix.com/ca/en/brainsleepsystem.html](http://vibrantme.isagenix.com/ca/en/brainsleepsystem.html)

1 week was enough for me.

It allows to relax and fall asleep quickly. Small doses will do and they will
not diminish your ability to wake up and take care of kids.

Again - start with 1/3 of recommended dose and you should be fine.

------
llimllib
Lots of data at
[http://examine.com/supplements/Melatonin/](http://examine.com/supplements/Melatonin/)

------
karlkatzke
Interesting. I work on call shifts. (Linux sysadmin, one week out of three is
24/7 on call -- which works much better than rotating one day out of three.)
I've used Melatonin for years to 'regulate' my sleep cycle so that I can stop
my tirelessly creative brain from thinking about that article I read a few
hours ago on Hacker News.

My other 'hacks' to keep my sleep cycle regulated are f.lux where possible,
using only dim incandescent lights in the evening around the house once I am
ready for bed, and NOT using a laptop, iPad, or anything with white/blue LEDs
in bed. Wake-up is accomplished with an alarm clock that activates a piece of
"wall art" that slowly changes color spectrum to full daylight using LEDs and
shines on the bed.

Having good control of my sleep cycle keeps jet lag, time changes, mid-night
alerts, and other things that disrupt most people from disrupting me as much
for as long.

~~~
chmars
Melatonin does NOT work as a remedy for jet lag. I don't find open access
links to the relevant studies right now but
[http://www.nojetlag.com/melatonin.html](http://www.nojetlag.com/melatonin.html)
might give you a first idea.

~~~
pcl
Anecdotally, melatonin works wonders for me when traveling.

I take 1mg of melatonin between 7 and 9pm in the target time zone's frame,
usually starting the day I travel or sometimes the day before. This translates
to taking a pill at noon or so in SF before flying to Europe. I follow that up
with a pill on the first few evenings of a trip.

I've been doing this for a few years now, and the only remnant of jetlag on
such trips is that I feel terrible around 3pm in Europe, which translates to
6am. So I'm guessing that my natural not-yet-shifted sleep cycle is rebelling
at that point and trying to convince my body that I just stayed up all night.

Of course, I am an n=1 population size, and the routine has worked so well
that I haven't dared to do a significant time zone shift without it. So it
could just be me, or it could be the placebo effect. And I'm perfectly ok with
that, as long as the jet lag stays at bay.

------
melatoned
What no one is talking about but should know:

Melatonin is amazing for people that smoke weed. If you're one of those people
that casually smoke but wake up the next morning feeling groggy and out of
sync, take melatonin at night as directed in this article and other places.
Getting into your bed will feel amazing. You will drift off to sleep, even if
your iPad or music is on. And you will wake up like a normal person, except a
bit more relaxed. As I became more and more successful I smoked less and less
because of how it affected my performance the next day. With Melatonin I can
smoke like Sophomore in college enjoying Adult Swim on a Sunday for the first
time.

What no one else is talking about:

Melatonin can make you super constipated. Eat fiber, take fiber pills, eat a
balanced diet high in vegetables and it should else. If you're on a neckbeard
died, say goodbye to pooping regularly and when you do, it will be compact.

------
DanBC
There are some problems with Melatonin (as supplied) - you don't really know
how much (if any) you're getting. Investigators found that quality control was
very poor and some brands contained very little melatonin. (I can't find it
now, but it was something like Consumer Reports or similar?)

It's a prescription only med in some places (UK) so you might not be able to
get it.

But it is "remarkably effective"[1] for jet lag.

You might want to consider sleep hygiene[2] as well as (or instead of)
melatonin or other sleep meds. (I really like zopiclone.)

[1] ([http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001520/melatonin-for-the-
pre...](http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001520/melatonin-for-the-prevention-
and-treatment-of-jet-lag))

[2]
([http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Insomnia/Pages/Treatment.aspx](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Insomnia/Pages/Treatment.aspx))

~~~
thenomad
A quick google gives me a big bunch of options for buying Melatonin in the UK
- [http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/HealthNotes-
Search?search=%...](http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/HealthNotes-
Search?search=%2Fassets%2Fnutritional-supplement%2Fmelatonin%2F~default) for
example.

Doesn't seem to be prescription-only unless I'm misunderstanding.

~~~
DanBC
Wikipedia suggests prescription only in the UK. I think this is because it was
banned as a food supplement in the 1990s, and only one medication got a
licence, and that was a POM. Thus, any melatonin product is either an
unlicensed medication (illegal) or prescription only.

The page you link to doesn't allow me to buy any product. Entering [melatonin]
in their search box doesn't return any products containing melatonin.

([http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulate/Medicines/Licensingofme...](http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulate/Medicines/Licensingofmedicines/Legalstatusandreclassification/Listsofsubstances/index.htm))

"You can't buy melatonin over the counter in the UK"
([http://www.webmd.boots.com/sleep-disorders/insomnia-in-
adult...](http://www.webmd.boots.com/sleep-disorders/insomnia-in-adults-
melatonin))

MHRA does regulate melatonin sales and prescriptions. Here are two examples:

UK website has prescription only melatonin, being advertised for off-label use
(jet lag) and is told to stop
([http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulate/Medicines/Advertisingof...](http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulate/Medicines/Advertisingofmedicines/Advertisinginvestigations/CON140628))
(Even though Cochrane found it's excellent for jetlag)

Also, unlicenced product
([http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulate/Medicines/Advertisingof...](http://www.mhra.gov.uk/Howweregulate/Medicines/Advertisingofmedicines/Advertisinginvestigations/CON044048))

EDIT: also, a web search for [buy codeine uk] returns many hits for offshore
pharmacies selling into the UK.

~~~
thenomad
Thanks for the detailed reply! Having looked into it a bit further - yep,
you're right.

~~~
robhu
You can buy melatonin online in the UK from Biovea
[http://www.biovea.com/uk/product_detail.aspx?NAME=MELATONIN-...](http://www.biovea.com/uk/product_detail.aspx?NAME=MELATONIN-5mg-180-Tablets&PID=21500#.Uk7192R4aoo)

~~~
thenomad
Interesting! Any idea how they get around the legal issue?

~~~
polshaw
It is legal to import prescription-only medicine into the UK, providing it
does not have a higher level of scheduling too.

------
scotty79
Melatonin may help to battle cancer along with chemo:
[http://virtualtrials.com/pdf/williams2013.pdf](http://virtualtrials.com/pdf/williams2013.pdf)
(Page 46)

My life partner started taking 20mg melatonin per day when she started her
chemo and radiation treatment after surgery for grade III anaplastic glioma
(fully resected) about year and a half ago. She's taking it ever since. No
side effects. It doesn't seem to help her sleep. She always fell asleep easily
and slept good.

We decided it should be safe for her as there was a research (can't locate it
now) where some women were given 20mg/day dose for, I guess two years or so,
in hopes it shows some contraceptive properties. It didn't but no side effects
showed up.

------
dajohnson89
I've tried pretty much every Over-The-Counter sleep aid there is. Melatonin is
indeed the most effective one I've tried, but my experience is that tolerance
builds up rather quickly. I can use it every night for maybe 2-4 weeks, but
after that, the amount required to achieve the same effects become absurdly
high.

Also, one thing I like about Melatonin is the lucidity of the dreams I
experience while sleeping with it. Colors, sensations, and my memory of the
dream the next morning are very intense.

Currently I'm using Valerian root[0], which is all-natural, and I don't
develop a noticeable tolerance.

0:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_%28herb%29](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_%28herb%29)

------
trefk
I didn't see any citations for his claim that melatonin saves you an hour
sleep per night. His entire argument is premised on this, but he barely
discusses it - he just states it as a fact. Did I just miss something? Is
there research supporting this claim?

------
gregd
It's my understanding that taking Melatonin supplements will mess up your
bodies natural ability to make it's own Melatonin (as will taking a lot of
supplements). You are far better off trying to get your body to produce
Melatonin on it's own.

~~~
minikites
Citation?

The article says:

> A 2010 trial tested a delayed-release melatonin over 6 months and found
> minimal adverse effects and no tolerance or "addiction"

~~~
drugcite-com
As for Melatonin Adverse Events, it's my site that's linked to under 'Uses',
([http://www.drugcite.com/?q=melatonin](http://www.drugcite.com/?q=melatonin))
It's important to sort the data by age and gender as the AE's can vary
greatly. That data is FDA FAERS data that runs against many other datasets by
the way.

~~~
gwern
As I've pointed out in the past to you, I'm not sure what use we're supposed
to be making of your admittedly nice site, given that we don't know how many
people are using melatonin, how reliable any of these cases are, or what.

------
mattchew
I tried melatonin thanks to this article (thanks gwern!).

It does help me get to sleep. I've used it about 10 times now and only once
did I still have trouble falling asleep, and even then I did within an hour or
so.

Unfortunately, it does NOT stop me from waking at 4:30 or 5 AM and then having
trouble falling back asleep. Still, this is less stressful than not falling
asleep in the first place.

Note that the probable effective dose is much lower than what you're likely to
get in one pill from the store. I couldn't remember the effective dose, got
5mg pills, ended up quartering them.

I don't have any hangover effects, and I wonder if you all that do are taking
too much.

It's worth trying if you have sleep issues.

------
nargella
I have had issues with going to sleep my whole life (nap time in preschool I
was last to fall asleep and last to wake up). First I have to say I took 3mg
as a test run and it did nothing. My gf then said they give 10-15mg for
patients at the hospital.

9mg was too effective at putting me out in 30 min (I weigh 200lbs). It was too
difficult to wake up in the morning. 6mg seems best. My minds eye feels like
it's wearing a sleeping mask because dreams are few and far between.

When I stopped taking it, dreams became vivid and memorable. I also took ZMA
before and that does nothing in terms of getting to sleep, but you get some
crazy strong dreams while on it.

------
dimitar
I've used melatonin and it definitely works, especially for improving the
quality of sleep and sleeping under the sun.

However I've found that just not eating for 6-8 hours before you go to bed
helps much more. Even eating an apple can disrupt sleep. This works really
well because if you suppress eating before you got to sleep, you also wake up
on time and pretty fresh to boot.

The only downsides are that some people get tempted too easily to eat before
bed or that if you absolutely have to stay late an hour or two more, you'll
still wake up 16 hours after you stopped eating, leaving you with less sleep
than intended.

------
smokey_the_bear
I used to have a wildly erratic sleep schedule. Then I had a baby. Now I sleep
from 10 pm to 7 am every single night.

While I know a lot of people have sleep disorders, I think a lot of people
have bad sleep schedules simply because they can.

~~~
meepmorp
I assume your child is grown up, because 10 hrs of sleep a night for someone
with an infant is absurd. And unfair.

~~~
smokey_the_bear
He's 12 months, and I am absurdly lucky he has slept from 8:30 pm - 7 am since
7 months. He is really intensely physical at all times while awake, which I
think wears him out.

~~~
meepmorp
Ok, 1 year is reasonable. My daughter started sleeping though the night pretty
early, too, but the first few months were weird and hallucinatory in their
sleeplessness.

------
patrickdavey
I had been taking concentrated cherry juice which is high in natural
meltonin.. made no discernible difference to me.. so I will try to see if
melatonin tablets are available here (in New Zealand) and give it a go.

One thing I would love to know is (I may have missed it in the article) is
whether melatonin supplements help with _staying_ asleep. I fall asleep just
fine (10-15 minutes, often earlier) but it's when my brain gets into a routine
of waking up at 3 or 4 am that I find particularly hard to deal with. I've
simply not worked out strategies around it yet.

~~~
markeroon
This is my problem too, and it normally happens when I am highly strung. I
have had success with meditation, but during very stressful periods I still
tend to awaken at 4am.

------
driverdan
Keep in mind that melatonin is a hormone. Exogenous hormones can downregulate
your body's natural production. Like anything hormonal you should not take it
continuously for long periods of time.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
Yes, this was exactly what I thought when I began using it. (See my other
comment on this article)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495786](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495786)

In practice, however, that didn't occur, at least for me.

I have no idea why. It would interesting to see if this is true for others.
It's certainly true for other hormones besides melatonin.

------
rfreytag
The pharmacokinetics of pill-form melatonin may be responsible for the
uneven-, or late-onset and morning grogginess. Others here have reported that
and I experienced it as well.

I have yet to see others mentioning the following answer so ...

My doctor advised using sprayed liquid melatonin (purchased at Whole Foods).
1-2 sprays under the tongue and held there for 30 seconds, then washed
throughout the mouth (a highly vascularized area) and swallowed, transports
the hormone consistently so that sleep is compelled in 1 to 1.5 hours with no
morning grogginess.

------
jmulho
Melatonin is this person’s religion. I wonder how much time they spend
thinking and talking about it.

Stranger still is the herd of commenters who condone the stuff. Do you really
think this will make you need an hour less sleep than everyone else?

Sleep is important. Don’t intentionally destroy your body’s ability to
regulate it. If you aren’t already addicted to melatonin, it’s not too late:

Go to bed and wake up at the same time every day. Don’t drink caffeine after
breakfast. Expose yourself to natural sunlight every day. Don’t play Grand
Theft Auto after midnight.

------
whitewhim
I used to deal with periodic weeks of insomnia. As a stifle I really could not
afford to spend a whole week without sleeping more than 5 hours as I would be
basically non functional after a couple days. I began supplementing a single
5mg dose of melatonin and it has almost completely erased my insomnia. I have
found that it has improved the quality of my sleep as well. The only side
affect I've noticed is increased dreaming while taking it, however I quite
enjoy that.

------
petercooper
Melatonin is not easily obtainable here in the UK (as far as I know) so when I
saw some in a regular store in the US, I grabbed some to try it.

And boy.. I usually have no trouble falling asleep except when travelling or
otherwise "out of sync" so I tried it and I felt like I wanted to sleep almost
constantly for two days. So it works, but perhaps a bit too well for me, even
with a single tablet. Maybe I have an abundance of melatonin already coursing
my veins? :-)

~~~
sdrinf
Got mine from biovea.com (with a eurovital.com logo _shrugs_ ) ; they seem to
have no problem whatsoever about shipping to the UK. IIRC, it's widely
available in many countries in the EU (specifically eg. Finland), who have no
problem whatsoever about shipping it to countries where it's prescription-
only.

~~~
petercooper
I suspect you already know this so this is for the benefit of third parties
reading this.. but it's legal to buy prescription only drugs from overseas in
the UK as long as they're only POM (e.g. modafinil) and not scheduled/classed
(e.g. ritalin).

------
j_m_b
Melatonin supplements have helped me numerous times to get to sleep after
tossing and turning in my bed. It is something that I've taken as needed and
as a nightly supplement. The biggest drawback to melatonin supplements is that
you can sometimes wake up slightly groggy the next morning. The stuff is dirt
cheap and commonly available. If you haven't tried it, this could be the
sleeper supplement your missing.

------
darkmuck
I don't think my body handles Melatonin very well... it definitely helps me
sleep great! But the next day I am groggy for nearly half the entire day

------
posnet
There is currently a study being conducted at the Woolcock Institute in Sydney
in its effectiveness to treat delayed sleep phase disorder among other
circadian rhythm disorders. [http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-24/new-hope-
to-treat-misd...](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-24/new-hope-to-treat-
misdiagnosed-sleep-disorder/4909876)

------
simpsond
I experienced a strange side effect when experimenting with melatonin: My
vision degraded as if I was having a migraine. I experienced tunnel vision and
colorful artifacts without the headache. I can't say with 100% certainty that
melatonin was the cause, but there was a correlation... and I have not
experienced the problem since I stopped taking it.

------
atlanticus
The key to using melatonin is to stop every few days and see if you sleep
through the night. If you don't keep going otherwise wait until you have two
nights without proper sleep. I had major sleep problems but this system has
worked great and I have not had to use melatonin in quite a while. Like
everything, moderation is key.

------
garrickvanburen
A couple years back I was taking 3mg of melatonin nightly. It worked
brilliantly for about 3 months. After that, while I'd feel sleepy and fall
asleep as expected, I'd be wide awake 1 sleep cycle later (~90min).

I'd still recommend melatonin as a short term way to re-establish a regular
bedtime/routine. Long term usage - less so.

------
MikeCapone
I take 1.5 mg every night before going to bed. It has solved pretty much all
my sleep problems, and allows me to control my sleeping schedule much more
easily (ie. on weekdays I go to bed at 12:15 AM, but on weekends I usually go
to bed at 3 AM. I have no problem re-transitioning back to weekday schedule
now, but I used to).

------
bcRIPster
Just throwing this out there... a bit of lost research on the subject. Pitty
not all of the images were cached.

[http://web.archive.org/web/20011211164100/http://www.mechabi...](http://web.archive.org/web/20011211164100/http://www.mechabiotix.com/articles/melatonin/index.html)

------
mkhalil
I have been taking Melatonin for a while now. However, I do not take it daily.
I usually take it to adjust sleep schedules after a poor pattern. Sunday night
for example I would take it to fix my poor weekend sleeping schedule. I think
it's great to FIX sleeping schedules, not necessarily to take daily.

------
srehnborg
I've taken it and really does help me sleep better. It helps me fall asleep
easier if I wake up in the middle of the night. I was taking about 1/3 of a
3mg tablet.

I did stop taking it though because I felt depressed after about 2 weeks of
taking it every day.

I will probably take it again periodically if I am traveling.

------
AndyNemmity
I've taken meltonin for 19 years now. I've moved up my dosage in the last few
months. I stayed on a very low dosage for a really long time, but am up to
10mgs now, and sleeping wonderfully.

The main side effect is being much more tired when you wake up, and that is
cured by coffee. I love the stuff.

~~~
theorique
_The main side effect is being much more tired when you wake up, and that is
cured by coffee. I love the stuff._

I noticed this the very first time I tried it - I slept in on a weekend, about
13h total and then felt very fuzzy and hung over.

That only happened once, and now I take it nightly.

Other recommended sleep hack: Tempur-Pedic sleep mask.

Seriously, it costs a lot more than the cheap plastic ones (although still
only $30) but it is worth its weight in gold. For shift workers, it's great -
you can sleep like a baby in full sunlight.

------
benrapscallion
A new report in yesterday's Science
([http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/85.full](http://www.sciencemag.org/content/342/6154/85.full))
indicates that vasopressin receptor antagonists might be the jetlag drug of
the future.

------
yannk
I'm sure Melatonin is great, but it won't ever solve the "kids are waking up"
problem.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Give melatonin to the kids.

------
moultano
Melatonin has made a huge difference in my life. I don't use it regularly, but
when there's a day when I absolutely need to get a good night's sleep or other
things will go badly, I no longer have to worry about it. I take 3mg of
melatonin and wake up refreshed.

------
IanDrake
I take 3mg and it works to help me sleep after an hour. I try to get to bed by
10:30.

My biggest problem still is that my alarm at 6AM wakes me during my active
dream cycle and most restful sleep. I'm not sure how to time shift that to
meet my needs.

Any advice?

~~~
martythemaniak
There's alarm apps that will let you set your alarm based on sleep cycles. If
that doesn't work, you can try various sleep measurement devices to wake you
up at the right time.

~~~
happyrock
I miss my WakeMate!

------
rodedwards
Nightmares and sleep paralysis! Wheee! Advil works better as a sleep aid for
me.

------
Sunlis
Given that this is a naturally-occurring hormone, is there any chance that
taking Melatonin regularly could cause your body to "get lazy" and eventually
produce less of its own?

------
linohh
Melatonin is prescription only in Germany. Bad luck, I guess.

~~~
gingerlime
Also in the UK according to some comments here[1]. Some comments suggested
buying from websites like biovea. Do you happen to know if it's legal to buy
there and import to Germany? (they even have a .de website in German).

I'm living in Germany, but not a native speaker, that's why I'm asking.

[1][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495576](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495576)

------
erikcw
I've tried it a few times. I find that I sleep like a rock, but have a dull,
throbbing headache in the morning. My wife swears by the stuff...

------
snarfy
It doesn't really make me fall asleep. It improves the quality of my sleep,
making me wake up in the morning much easier.

------
PaulHoule
If I take Melatonin I feel like I've got St. Elmo's Fire and I can't sleep at
all for hours.

~~~
kaoD
What is St. Elmo's Fire? I can only find a weather phenomenon.

~~~
PaulHoule
I have a tactile perception of glowing all over my body. It's really creepy.

~~~
gwern
Could it be
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitivity#Skin_reaction...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitivity#Skin_reactions)
?

------
vldx
Anyone used Melatonin w/ 5-HTP?

Is it safe (is it worth it) taking Melatonin if you're under 30 years old?

------
nickthemagicman
This is very interesting. Wish hacker news had more hacking the human body
articles.

~~~
trendoid
Check OP's website for other hacks. Very comprehensive research(meta-analysis)
on pretty much all nootropics and memory improving techniques.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Cool thanks. I'll check it out.

------
ck2
I tried it for a short while but it gave me vivid nightmares.

------
arikrak
Why are all these Gwern.net posts showing up now?

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gwern
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6466422](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6466422)

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ffrryuu
See lef.org for more info

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taigeair
why is it so pro melatonin?

