
The Life and Death of the Touch Bar: Revisiting the MacBook Pro - tolien
https://chuqui.com/2017/08/the-life-and-death-of-the-touch-bar-revisiting-the-macbook-pro/
======
Finbarr
Just got a new MBP with touchbar and am finding it quite annoying for these
reasons:

\- there seems to be no way to dim it and it's way too bright in the dark.

\- the context specific functions appearing and disappearing make it really
eye catching and distracting. There also seems to be a slight lag before it
updates with the latest context. (I ended up switching it to only show some
small subset of default controls).

\- I'm hardly using it at all, but sometimes it just stops responding. Hitting
the buttons doesn't do anything.

\- it's too easy to accidentally tap one of the buttons.

All in all I think it's a gimmick and I'd much rather have a physical escape
key.

~~~
na85
That's interesting because I expected to hate mine but am rather ambivalent
towards the touch bar.

I've never had the touch bar malfunction, nor do I find it distracting or too
bright at night, even on a lakeside dock in cottage country.

I agree, though, that occasionally I will switch the input language to French
due accidentally hitting the the bar. It's too sensitive.

The biggest surprise for me, though, was that I don't miss the physical F keys
nor Escape, even a little bit.

~~~
taf2
Do either of you use vim?

~~~
justanotherbody
I use it, and have a mb with touch bar.

Using solely the laptop keyboard was fine. Transitioning between the laptop
keyboard and an external was not.

I ended up adding a binding for "jk" to exit editing mode. Very pleased

~~~
michaelmrose
Tried caps lock as escape?

~~~
spajus
Caps lock is already taken for ctrl

~~~
michaelmrose
With Xcape for Linux or other alternatives you can use it for both with escape
on Key up if another key isn't pressed

------
notadoc
It's fairly obvious by now that nobody wants a Touch Bar.

Pro users that I know want:

\- A great keyboard (yes with an actual physical Escape key)

\- 32 GB RAM, with 64 GB optional

\- Common ports including boring old USB and HDMI, and a headphone jack

\- Good battery life at a reasonable weight compromise

I hope Apple realizes the current MacBook Pro is a flop and backtracks on the
many poor decisions that went into it.

~~~
dyarosla
As much as I think they should backtrack... is there any precedent of Apple
backtracking?

~~~
bitwize
The G4 Cube...

------
cletus
Honestly this whole situation is so frustrating as a user.

I now have a 2017 MBP and every day I try to hate it a little less but it's
hard work. I miss the old keyboard. Touch Bar is gimmicky and I'd be happier
without it. Only USB-C is idiotic. No more Magsafe stil kills me. The old
trackpad was better.

For years I just wanted a better Macbook Air (ie upgraded display and specs).
The 13" MBA was about perfect IMHO. Reasonably cheap and a great form factor.
Yet even Apple succumbed to the fatal disease of "adding value" by changing a
winning formula. Force Touch lack discovery and is terrible (this is
particularly the case for the phones).

Sadly, the alternative (non-Apple laptops) is just so much worse. I have a
Dell XPS 15 and it's fine I guess but it's STILL much worse than MBP/OSX.

Why does everything suck?

~~~
coldtea
For a counter opinion, I could not care less about Magsafe (I thought I would,
but I don't miss it). I really do appreciate that I can now hook the MBP into
power from any side and port.

I also like the USB-C: bought a few $80 total cables for everything (USB-C
HDMI, USB-C to hard disk, USB-C to printer etc) and I no longer need any
dongles either (just the respective USB-C to X cable, as I would have used a
USB-A to X cable before). $80 is not much when one is talking of a $2000 /
$3000 laptop. And increasingly new peripherals will come with direct USB-C
support anyway.

The display and brightness and colors is also killer.

And I appreciate the Touch ID very much (1Password, lock screen, payments).

That said: new trackpad is a problem for me, because I tend to touch it as I
type (since it's bigger).

And the touch strip I don't care about. I would prefer if it was individual
strip of actual buttons (physical) that would light up with images and be
customizable (like the Optimus Prime keyboard).

~~~
cletus
USB-C is a wholly terrible idea.

So a USB-C port and cable is capable of one or more of the following:

\- Providing power (at different wattages)

\- Data transfer of varying speeds

\- Display transport

So cables are visibly the same and have a different set of capabilities. For
example, Apple's USB-C cables that come with the new Macbooks aren't capable
of high speed data transfer. Some cables are capable of charging at 87W.
Others much less.

How is this better?

I remember reading one description of this that went something like this:
prior to USB-C nothing fit but everything worked. Now everything fits but
nothing works.

But consider a practical matter: if each port needs to be capable of power,
data transfer and display, it's either going to be more expensive to produce
or some ports, like the cables, will have different capabilities with no
indication as to why.

Honestly it's just a horrible idea.

EDIT: example of this insanity:

[http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/08/15/psa-
thunderbolt-3-...](http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/08/15/psa-
thunderbolt-3-cables-longer-than-05m-generally-dont-support-usb-31-speeds)

~~~
coldtea
> _So cables are visibly the same and have a different set of capabilities.
> For example, Apple 's USB-C cables that come with the new Macbooks aren't
> capable of high speed data transfer. Some cables are capable of charging at
> 87W. Others much less. How is this better?_

Just buy the high speed/high charge capable ones and you're set. That's how
it's better.

> _I remember reading one description of this that went something like this:
> prior to USB-C nothing fit but everything worked. Now everything fits but
> nothing works._

Yeah, I read the same. That's why I stopped reading such things. Now
everything works, with USB-C, and I don't have to worry about some writer's
hysteria to drum up views.

~~~
ScottBurson
> Just buy the high speed/high charge capable ones and you're set.

That would seem to be true _except_ for connecting a Thunderbolt 3 monitor.
From the parent's linked article:

> Thunderbolt 3 runs longer than 18-inches can be passive or active. The
> passive ones have lower speed, with the max data rate hitting about
> 20Gbit/second at two meters of cable length. However, active cables contain
> transceivers to regulate the data transfer through the cable. At the same
> two meters, speed is still at the maximum of 40Gbit/second. _Passive cables
> maintain USB 3.1 type-C compatibility. Active ones do not._ [emphasis added]

That seems like a valid issue to me, not "hysteria".

~~~
coldtea
From the 5+ different ports we used to have now have (or go towards) only one,
with maybe needing to buy a different cable for connecting a thunderbolt 3
monitor.

Still sounds better that what it was to me.

Not to mention that if there's a cable that's stationary and stays at
home/office it's the monitor desktop. Unless one regularly takes their 24/27"
monitor with them, they can just buy ONCE, the appropriate cable, and live it
connected for ever.

It's not like people will mess their monitor cables up while on the road.

------
suprgeek
The touch bar is useless - worse than useless

1) No haptic feedback if I hit a key - did I hit it? just terrible for touch
typists

2) Context switching according to an app - now you expect me to remember
another whole new way to interact in addition to on-screen and keyboard short
cuts - WHY?

3) Should I look at the keyboard or not - if not then why do the glowy keys on
the keyboard keep distracting me? If yes then WTF is the screen for?

4)Do all Apple products have this or not? Why is there no external keyboard
with TouchBar?

Complete misfire on Apple's part (Reference : Currently use MBP 15 latest
version for work)

~~~
xapata
A large number of users are not touch typists and do not remember keyboard
shortcuts. They look down at the keyboard when typing. Those users will love
the touch bar.

~~~
tfcata
Then don't call it pro.

~~~
adrianN
I've seen many professional programmers typing with two fingers while looking
at the keyboard.

~~~
dingo_bat
I do this and even though I'm not a touch typist, there is a sense of position
information about keys in my mind. However with the touch bar (I'm assuming,
having never used one for longer than 2 minutes), even that sense will not
help.

------
roberttod
As much as I love the engineering behind the touch bar I never saw a good
reason for it.

I think context switching buttons is poor UX, you shouldn't need to look at
the keyboard when you're using it.

I miss the days I could quickly adjust the volume or brightness of my MacBook
with the touch of a physical key who's position doesn't move (navigating a
touchscreen for these controls is wholly unnecessary).

~~~
derefr
The touchbar makes more sense if you don't consider it a modal part of the
keyboard, but rather a touchable part of the screen. Like the bottom screen of
a Nintendo DS.

~~~
ramses0
Well then put it there and give me my escape and FN keys back!

------
ramenmeal
TouchID is the only feature I've used on the touch bar, I've had this mac for
~4 months as a full time dev. Even then, I think I can type my password in the
time it recognizes my finger. The rest of the touch bar is a disaster. The
last button I want to accidentally press is un-mute or the play button. I can
switch it to be a function row, but still then I don't want to accidentally
touch f5, f10,11,12 while developing.

~~~
konceptz
I frequently lock my computer (set the lock button on the touch bar so it's my
fault, but in line with no haptic feedback) when I try to hit other buttons.

~~~
srikz
I found even the lock button to be a bit unreliable. If you tap on lock and
almost immediately hit any other key on the keyboard, it resumes back and you
have full access!

------
breatheoften
Two features of touchbar that I use consistently are enough for me to pretty
much like after initially not seeing the point at all --

1\. when taking a screenshot touchbar shows an option to toggle between the
various destinations (desktop, documents, clipboard) -- nice because these
keyboard shortcuts are really hard to type and often I don't make up my mind
about where I want the picture to go until I'm in the middle of selecting the
region

2\. Scrubbing between safari tabs is a pretty nice feature -- I find myself
using it a lot.

~~~
sarthakjain
2 generic use cases that emerge from the points you mentioned

1) An equivalent interface to the Android snackbar which is a contextual "more
options" menu to the most recent interaction

2) Global hirerachy and navigation

------
yellow_postit
Apple got ahead of itself with the touchbar and it's no surprise they have not
pushed on it much since release. I sincerely hope they are mature enough to
recognize it was not the right tech and pull it from future laptops.

~~~
jest3r1
The touch bar will evolve into a touch screen keyboard.

~~~
notadoc
You ever typed on an iPad or Fire keyboard? Good luck!

~~~
nilved
You ever typed on an iPhone keyboard? BlackBerry's physical keyboard was far
better. It didn't matter.

~~~
notadoc
Ugh, you are right and that makes me sad.

But it works for iPhone thanks to a combination of changes in habit and
autocorrect and plenty of typos, whereas no matter how much I have tried I
have never made typing work on a tablet.

------
Azeralthefallen
I got a new MBP with touchbar for work several months ago, honestly at first i
was overjoyed by the laptop. A single universal connector for everything? This
is amazing. The touchbar, will be awesome, i can replace those barely used
function keys, with things of value.

However after several months:

\- The touchbar is borderline useless. When i rapidly switch between various
apps, sometimes the touchbar doesn't realize that hey i am in a different app.

\- Numerous times i have had the touchbar freeze and become completely
unresponsive. This is extremely frustrating, when i am trying to esc out of
something, or i am trying to do some normal work. I also had a time where i
unplugged my headphones, and itunes decided to play through speakers, and no
amount of spamming mute on the touch bar would make itunes shut up.

However my biggest issue is with USB-C, which i thought would be the greatest
thing since sliced bread.

\- I have seen some TV's/projectors, where USB-C <-> HDMI just flat out does
not want to work on these devices. Then i need to fumble and pray that i got
lucky and packed my VGA cable. Even worse is when it does work, for whatever
reason with the dongle i have seen some cases where i am locked to stupidly
low resolutions like 1024x768 or lower. Yet my coworker can plug his mini DP
into his older macbook and has 0 issues.

\- Numerous times i have wanted to take control of a big screen and plug my
laptop into it. Unfortunately i didn't bring the dongle. Instead i have been
forced to do a hangouts and screenshare my desktop while a coworkers laptop is
connected to the big screen.

\- The lack of actual quality dongles, i have 2 highend 4k monitors, that do
not support USB-C, they support display port. Unfortunately i have tried
almost a dozen of these cables, and i cannot get a solid dongle that gives me
proper 4k at 60hz like my coworkers older macbook laptops can do.

~~~
imtringued
You should try using a thunderbolt 3 adapter. One Thunderbolt 3 port supports
can support up to two displayport 4k 60hz port. If the macbook pro has a
dedicated TB3 controller per TB3 port then it could in theory support up to 8
4k 60hz displays.

[https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Thunderbolt-Dual-
Display...](https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Thunderbolt-Dual-DisplayPort-
Adapter/dp/B072JK37LV?th=1)

I don't understand the USB-C hate. Especially complaints about applereplacing
it in 5 years with a new port anyway. With displayport 1.4 over USB-C we will
soon be able to drive 8k montors at 60hz with a single USB-C cable. USB-C is
truly the "last port".

------
TazeTSchnitzel
A big problem with it is that, as a new interface only supported on the high-
end new MacBook Pro, you _still_ have to design your apps to work perfectly
without it, lest you exclude users of the old MacBook Pro, users of the non-
Touch Bar MacBook Pro, MacBook users, MacBook Air users, Mac mini users, iMac
users, and iMac Pro users.

~~~
coralreef
That's considered a "big" problem for Mac app developers?

~~~
ghostly_s
It's a big problem for Apple, unless they somehow make touchbar support
mandatory in XCode. No-one's going to bother developing the elaborate custom
applications for it like Apple did in iMovie if a minority of their customer
base will ever see them, and that makes the adoption problem even bigger.

------
rcthompson
It's interesting that a lot of the OP's reason for not needing the Touch Bar
and/or TouchID is that the Apple Watch replaces it, because if I recall, the
Touch Bar effectively is a built-in Apple Watch with a funny-shaped screen
(i.e. it's a tiny iOS device). So it's not surprising that the watch provides
much of the same functionality.

------
idlewords
Unlike the author, I have a long passphrase on 1password and find the ability
to use the fingerprint sensor a godsend.

I've found that the Touch Bar will freeze up sometimes and make it impossible
to regulate volume (though muting still works). But this seems to be part of
the general neglect of OS X rather than a drawback of the hardware.

~~~
SomeHacker44
I don't use the TouchID. The last thing I want is my authentication to be
coerced by just knocking me out and using my finger. My pass phrase may also
be able to be coerced but not by law abiding people and government agents.

~~~
konceptz
I have the same quandary while traveling abroad. Giving your fingerprints
while entering a country means you're giving the country your passwords.

~~~
idlewords
I turn the TouchID feature off while traveling. I think it's important to have
different habits with phone and computer security when you're on the move, and
I hope it becomes the accepted practice.

------
brians
It's surprising to me that so few recognize the touch bar for its real
purpose: trusted path I/O. Imagine a password manager interacting with the
secure element using the touch bar. Or a U2F device. Or a document signing
applet. Or access control for iOS device backups. Or purchasing.

~~~
Corrado
I think this is a great idea and would go a long way to changing my opinion of
the Touch Bar. Has Apple actually made strides to using it as a U2F device?

------
bitmapbrother
The touchbar is a problem looking for a solution. For the premium they charge
for it I fail to see how it returns its value. Perhaps this was innovation for
the sake of innovation, but I don't see the touchbar having a prolonged
lifespan. Sooner or later Apple is going to come to the realization that they
need a touchscreen on the MacBook.

On a related note, I was trying out the MacBooks at an Apple store and
couldn't believe how bad the keyboards have become. The key travel was nearly
non existent. Perhaps this is Apple's way of slowly conditioning their users
to a keyboard with no physical keys, but rather touch keys powered by force
touch. It certainly seems like the next evolution as they keep reducing the
key travel lower and lower. The sensation of typing on the keyboard, IMO, was
so bad that I would never purchase or recommend one. I would, however, still
recommend the previous generation with a proper keyboard.

~~~
camus
> The touchbar is a problem looking for a solution. For the premium they
> charge for it I fail to see how it returns its value. Perhaps this was
> innovation for the sake of innovation, but I don't see the touchbar having a
> prolonged lifespan. Sooner or later Apple is going to come to the
> realization that they need a touchscreen on the MacBook.

IMHO the Surface Book from Microsoft is a great idea with a beautiful design
but poorly executed [1]

I would have expected Apple to come up with this kind of product and phase out
both the Macbook Air and the ipad. The Macbook + touchbar seems so half baked
I'm not sure why Apple thought it was a good idea.

1:
[http://www.thespectrum.com/story/life/features/mesquite/2017...](http://www.thespectrum.com/story/life/features/mesquite/2017/08/25/consumer-
reports-drops-microsoft-surface/603547001/)

~~~
valuearb
Because touchscreen on a laptop don't make sense because they

\- Unbalance the weight of the laptop.

\- Lead to finger print smudges all over the screen.

\- Take your hands off the home row

\- And tap areas need to be far bigger than mouse areas. You either get too
tiny tap areas that make interfaces harder to use, or you get too large areas
that are a waste for scrollpad/mouse users.

------
egypturnash
I just recently bought a new MBP. Normally I would get the fastest CPU and
biggest SSD as as a custom build. But this time I did not. Because that's only
available with the touch bar.

------
cutler
My Macbook Pro is 4 years old and in good nick but I won't fork out for
another when it dies. Not because of the Touch Bar but the general build
quality. I looked at the latest Macbook Pro in the Apple Store and the screen
hinge feels so fragile compared with its predecessor. Apple seem to be
obsessed with thin and lightweight but that's not what everyone wants. Their
marketing has never been aimed at what pro users really want. Why make a
laptop which can last 6 years or more instead of a flimsy, lightweight version
at the same price which is guaranteed to break in half the time?

~~~
valuearb
Apple makes the best laptop hinges in the industry. It goes where you want and
stays where you want. If you think the new one is actually fragile (it isn't)
get one with AppleCare, and you'll get fresh new laptops every time one
breaks.

~~~
malloryerik
I've heard that you'll actually get fresh refurbished laptops, no?

~~~
aklemm
That, I suspect, was true when I replaced my iPhone under AppleCare and the
replacement has been really wonky. Various flimsiness with the body of the
phone, GPS is spotty and sometimes completely fails. Disappointing.

------
RyanShook
Reminds me of 3D Touch. It could become useful but right now it's a solution
to a problem I don't have and most developers can't find a useful way to
implement it.

~~~
pducks32
Can’t speak of touchbar but I don’t understand the hate for 3D Touch. I love
it and use it a lot. Sure discoverability sucks but I think it’s worth while.

~~~
nomel
I think discoverability is the main problem. Nobody knows what it can do. I
use the quick cursor placement (push and slide when editing text) and fast app
switching (push left edge and swipe to middle to switch to previous app) many
many times per day. A few games, like Pixel Gun 3d, use it fantastically,
since it's actually multi finger 3d touch. It's a first person shooter with
standard move with left finger and look with right, with the addition of jump
by pushing left and shoot by pushing right.

------
ljoshua
Tangential, but I recently discovered how to find refurbished (read: early
2015, pre-Touch Bar/USB-C models) for sale on Apple's store site, even when
not listed in the refurb section. Found it when trying to avoid buying a new
one myself.

I wrote up a quick explanation here: [http://www.joshualyman.com/2017/08/find-
hidden-apple-refurbs...](http://www.joshualyman.com/2017/08/find-hidden-apple-
refurbs/)

------
themagician
The touch bar is something you get used to the same way you get used to using
a trackpad. I avoided the trackpad for YEARS opting for a wireless mouse
and/or the eraser nub on the old ThinkPads.

For me the touch bar isn't vital, but I really wouldn't want to go back to not
having it. In fact, I wish the external keyboard also had a touch bar. It's
fantastic for any scenario where their are no controls on the screen, such as
full screen video. It also makes a fantastics scrubber for emojis, photos,
etc. And the ability to change the function keys based on context, while not
something you use every day in every application, actually makes a lot of
sense and it's pretty bewildering that this didn't change a long time ago.
It's always annoying when function keys no longer do what their icon suggests
because they have been replaced, moved, or the OS has changed that
functionality. And for things like brush size or changing the tool your using
in a video editor, it actually is a lot more convenient. There are these
things you start to realize that you always wanted physical keys for, and now
you have them.

The only problem that I have with the new MPB is the way the keyboard sounds.
The clicks on each key are different depending on where they are and how hot
the chassis is. If you haven't noticed this, I'm sorry you're reading this
because once you notice it you won't be able to not. Certain keys click more
than others. They do all sort of break in a bit and start to sound the same,
and since the travel is so short it doesn't actually impact typing at all, but
it does sound and feel a bit weird when the "A" key acts slightly differently
from the "F" key. They keys along the exterior tend to be more "clicky" than
the keys on the interior. It's just weird.

------
gamad
I can't imagine working without an ESC key. I think many of the complaints
could have been alleviated if they left this one key on the machine.

------
bphogan
Folks, the touchbar is 1000x more useful if you have a BetterTouchTool
license. I have mine customized completely, with app-specific shortcuts. It's
amazing. Without BTT, the touchbar is kinda silly. But with it? You can do
some rad stuff with it. I urge you to try it out and see what you can do with
it.

You can even execute a shell script and put the results in there.

------
malloryerik
Do the other specs of the touch bar MBP 13" model make it worth the extra cost
vs the no touch bar 13", _despite_ the touch bar itself?

\- Faster CPU 3.1GHz boost to 3.5 vs 2.3GHz boost to 3.6, but more power-
hungry

\- Four Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C ports vs two on no touch model

\- Faster GPU -- Intel Iris Plus Graphics 650 vs 640 -- does this matter?

\- Two fans vs one (but more power consumption)

\- 49.2-watt-hour battery (MBP) vs 54.5-watt-hour (no touch MBP is better
here)

\- Shorter battery life for touch bar model, but by how much?

Which one is a better value? Does anyone have experience of the real
difference in battery life? Is the no touch model too weak? Two days ago I
ordered and paid the touch bar model with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD, but
cancelled the next day (first time doing that). For general development and
some video/music editing, is the no touch model sufficient?

~~~
rubatuga
Don’t get the touch model, cpu speeds are essentially equivalent, and you’ll
get an extra hour of battery life.

------
coldtea
> _Much as I love the TouchID sensor, what keeps me from missing it much is
> 1Password. It’s marginally more work for me to type in my password to open
> 1Password than use my fingerprint, but not much. My Apple Watch unlocks the
> Mac, and so I don’t need the TouchID sensor for that, and when I use Apple
> Pay on the iMac, the Watch makes that quite painless, too. So having lived
> with the Touch Bar and Touch ID sensor for months and then migrated away
> from them again, I’ve found they seem to be solving problems I don’t really
> have._

The touch strip maybe. Touch ID not at all -- you only missed it "a little"
because you already have an Apple Watch to automatically unlock your Mac.

------
ThomPete
Touch bar is great for 1 control things like volume or as a lever for
something.

For everything else it doesn't work because it switches meaning based on the
context and thus makes it close to impossible to apply muscle memory to.

------
andy_ppp
I think it’s a decent machine but I’ve had a few issues.

The power brick is super slippery and I dropped it onto the screen, which
shattered immediately as if it was sprung/under constant tension.

The “b” key is intermittent or repeats randomly. There is no dirt under the
keys.

The touchbar is flipping useless and I always select the volume slider
accidentally rather than mute. The buttons at either end of the slider don’t
mean mute or full volume they mean increment and decrement which is clearly
wrong.

The screen replacement cost £724 but very very luckily it was within my 90 day
accidental damage insurance on my credit card!

------
revelation
Wait, people lock all their passwords behind their _fingerprint_? Why would
you turn a good idea like a password manager into the safety equivalent of a
wet towel?

~~~
valuearb
Because good security that people actually use is far better than perfect
security they won't?

------
kevinflo
I've found myself so annoyed with the touch bar I used this great disabler
[https://github.com/LumingYin/TouchBarDisabler](https://github.com/LumingYin/TouchBarDisabler)

Conveniently, it maps key combos like ctrl+1 to make the screen dimmer it
ctrl+2 to make the screen brighter. Definitely would prefer real keys though
if they made a 15 inch with them.

------
craigc
I am glad to read articles like this since I specifically opted to get the
non-touchbar MacBook Pro when the new models came out. The only annoying thing
about the non-touchbar model is that the specs are not quite as good.

I tried it out in the store and I decided that using keyboard shortcuts will
always be faster than using the touchbar which the article linked from this
one mentions.

~~~
malloryerik
Have you had the chance to notice any real life differences between yours and
touch bar models? For example, battery life, fan noise, speed?

------
gumby
It will be hard to put the touch bar on a remote keyboard because it looks
like a display. Perhaps BT 5 will be fast enoug, but AFAIK that will require
new macs as well as new keyboards.

The audience for touch bar is non-touch typists and those who use the mouse so
are happy to move their hand and gaze away from the active zone. A group
probably disjoint with HN readers.

------
_ix
Why can't I swipe backward on this website? Does the author dislike both the
TouchBar _and_ the MultiTouch Trackpads? ;)

------
fossuser
I think Apple should kill the MacBook Air (not sure why it wasn't killed a
long time ago when the new 12 inch MacBook launched).

Then all MacBook Pros should have the touch bar if they're going to keep it
(no 13 inch two port version without one).

It's strange to me that the Airs and the MacBook Pro without touch bar exist.

~~~
rando444
They did sadly kill off the 11" macbook air shortly after the 12" macbook
launched.

~~~
malloryerik
I love my trusty 11" air (apart from the bezel).

------
brandonmenc
"Touch Bar is useless!" \- well, so are function keys for just about everyone.

It's not going anywhere. In five years, every laptop will replace their
function keys with something similar.

imo, it's a nice incremental improvement, and it's actually slightly more
functional than the F-keys.

------
drcongo
I hate my MacBook Pro with TouchBar more than I've ever hated any computer
I've owned.

~~~
brookside
Why?

------
bouke
My biggest beef with the new MBP TouchBar is how horribly slow Keychain has
become.

* When a login form is shown in Safari, it takes 2-3 seconds before the username and password are prefilled. Safari just hangs (beach ball) in the meantime.

* Searching in Keychain Access is horribly slow. After a search term has been entered, it takes 4-5 seconds before the search results are shown. Keychain Access just hangs (beach ball) in the meantime. And it is made worse as searching also starts during typing, so you can type... but the text won't show up. And Keychain Access simply hangs. And after the 4-5 hang is over, it starts hanging again as you've entered additional search terms.

* In Keychain Access when you've finally gotten to the entry you wanted, copying the password to clipboard is another 2-3 seconds wait. With appropriate hang (beach ball).

This has been going for many users on this machine. Apple doesn't confirm that
this issue exists, keeps suggesting to reinstall their machines and offers
replacements to others -- which obviously doesn't help. Users testing macOS
High Sierra beta's report small improvements, but still nothing significant.

[speculation] I suspect the Secure Enclave is to blame here, some design issue
with the hardware. High Sierra appears to do heavy caching of the Keychain, to
work around this hardware issue. [/speculation]

[edit] Issue #2 with this machine is that Spotlight randomly stops working.
You can open Spotlight (CMD+Space), but you can't type your query -- it
doesn't respond to key pressed. You have to `killall Spotlight` from the
Terminal to fix this.

Issue #3 with this machine is that the keys are too close to the screen when
closed. You can see an "imprint" of the keyboard when opening. This will
probably cause damage to the screen's coating in the long rung and thus reduce
the machine's lifetime (damaged screen).

Issue #4 is flaky Bluetooth radio. Multiple times throughout the day my Apple
Magic Mouse, Apple Wireless Keyboard and/or Sony headset will disconnect.

Issue #5 is slow wake from sleep. I've had multiple wakes from sleep taking
over 20 seconds -- leaving the screen black while resuming. The repair center
blames high memory usage (paging). However my previous 2013 MBP (also 16 GB)
didn't have the same issue, and my use hasn't changed.

Issue #6 is that the machine sometimes crashes when plugging in the Apple
USB-C HDMI Multiport adapter. That's a great start of a presentation having a
room full of people.

~~~
bouke
Issue #7 is that Play/Pause get "hijacked" by Safari tabs if it starts playing
audio (music / video / notification). For example if I have music playing in
iTunes and then visit a YouTube page. Normally I'd press Play/Pause and iTunes
paused. However now Safari hijacks the media keys and pressing Play/Pause
pauses the video. Now I have to switch to iTunes and CLICK the play/pause
button, and then switch back to the Youtube video. Even worse: this happens
with websites playing audio notifications (e.g. WhatsApp Web). When this
happens, Play/Pause stay mapped to that website's notification sound and I
have to close the tab before the key is released back to iTunes.

------
kylehotchkiss
I got a new macbook pro without touch bar. On it's own, it's a great computer.
Wish Apple would drop in an LTE chip now. Don't need toys, need tools to work
smarter.

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chj
I am desperately waiting for a No-Touch-Bar version of MBP 15. If not, I may
have to settle with the 13 version. I am not ready to part with a physical ESC
just yet.

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firedev
I will never buy a notebook with touch bar and regretting getting this one. As
a vim user I would vote for Esc any day. Same issue on the iPad keyboard
cover.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
It’s also annoying that the iPad keyboard cover actually has more (and IMO
better) key travel than the new Macbooks. Other than the lack of escape and
function keys, I wouldn’t mind too much typing on it for development.

------
taurath
I like the features they've expanded since release - even chrome works really
nice with video controls.

------
rectang
What can the touch bar do that a touch screen could not?

~~~
valuearb
\- Keep the screen lighter and the perfect screen tilt adjustments Apple
laptops are famous for.

\- Keep smudges off your bright new screen.

\- Keep your hands on the home row.

\- Keep tap areas in the OS sized to cursors, not fat fingers.

