

Ask HN: Is Agile wrong for my team - itstimeisntit

I am on a team of 2 developers and a sys admin. Our non-tech boss wants to implement Agile. Devs work on 2 separate projects, sys admin supports them via infrastructure, database stuff, etc...<p>We exceed expectations, do we need Agile? We are organized and documented.<p>Can it be a hindrance to our workflow? Forgot to mention there is a lot of legacy code, and tons of bug fixes, its pretty dynamic.
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duncan_bayne
"Agile" isn't a methodology, it's a set of value statements about princples.
See:

[http://agilemanifesto.org/](http://agilemanifesto.org/)

In particular, Agile is a statement that you value:

* Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

* Working software over comprehensive documentation

* Customer collaboration over contract negotiation

* Responding to change over following a plan

I'd be willing to bet that a 2-person team that's moving fast, exceeding
expectations and building necessary stuff well is already doing all of the
above.

I suggest getting your boss to read that manifesto, then sit down as a team
with him / her, and work through the principles. Discuss each one, and
identify areas for improvement. If your boss is dead-set on a particular
methodology, you might do well to highlight the first point above :)

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mcv
I agree. Sounds like the team is already Agile. If the boss wants to be agile
too, that's great! Management buy-in is very important for Agile to work. They
need to understand and accept that the dev team is ultimately in control of
the way they work, and the business side needs to provide the things the dev
team needs to do their work.

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ramkumarceg
From my experience sys admin work is hard to manage using scrum. I have used
kanban or a combination of kanban and agile to track my work.

The training I attended said the ideal team size for scrum is 4 - 7 team
members. I would say follow whatever makes you feel comfortable, as long as
you deliver some value to your end users it is all good.

Having said that at my current work I am using a trello board to manage all my
stories and find it helpful even though it is just two of us at the moment. If
you have any more questions feel free

I am going to shamelessly promote my startup, check out
[http://askmeanything.me/](http://askmeanything.me/) , to ask questions to
founding engineers.

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gesman
Likely, yes.

If you already doing efficient work, you don't need someone to join your team
and to justify his existence to inflict methodology over your already working
workflow.

Methodologies makes sense to organize large teams with diverse backgrounds and
experiences.

Small, efficient, and already professional teams usually neither need
babysitting nor organizing methodologies to do it's work.

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duncan_bayne
Agile is not a methodology, it is a set of values. When you write:

"Small, efficient, and already professional teams usually neither need
babysitting nor organizing methodologies to do it's work."

... you're right, most likely because that team is already Agile.

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gesman
If it's ain't broke, don't scrum it.

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AdieuToLogic
OK, I have one for ya:

Scrum - Cialas(TM) for a manager's CV[1].

1 - Don't take Scrum if you are responsible for delivering a product. To avoid
long term WTF, seek another job if your stand ups last more than 4 hours.
Scrum does not prevent the spread of defects. If you have any sudden decrease
in productivity, stop taking Scrum and call your developers immediately.

Why tell your development team you are incorporating Scrum? Because, sooner or
later, when the moment is right, you can spring it on them and get the keyword
on your CV.

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bwh2
This is worth reading: [http://algeri-wong.com/yishan/engineering-management-
process...](http://algeri-wong.com/yishan/engineering-management-process.html)

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AdieuToLogic
> We exceed expectations, do we need Agile? We are organized and documented.

I would ask your boss this question.

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theaccordance
Just give it a try for a week and see if you find value in the methodology.

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duncan_bayne
Firstly, a week is nowhere near long enough to evaluate a methodology.

Secondly, there are many Agile methodologies. The first step should be to sit
down as a team and work through the manifesto, identifying areas for
improvement.

Only once that's done is there any point in thinking about choosing a
methodology.

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theaccordance
Let's not get all jumpy on the downvotes from a difference of opinion; a week
may not work for you but for others... well we move fast.

The point was to encourage our fellow HN member to be open minded and try it
for a short period of time. From there he can determine if the change has
begun to yield any value or not.

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duncan_bayne
And that advice is simply wrong. It's simply not possible for any team to
reasonably assess the pros and cons of a given software development
methodology - with the _possible_ exception of the one they're already using -
in a week.

Suggesting a team 'try a methodology for a week' is inviting a train-wreck.

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theaccordance
Good to know you're the benchmark for productivity in the industry.

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duncan_bayne
My own experience - across multiple teams, multiple organisations, multiple
languages and frameworks - is that it can take weeks to evaluate even
relatively slight changes to existing methodologies.

Let's say the OP decides to adopt Extreme Programming.

How long would you say that a team with zero experience in that methodology
would take to get to the point where they're practising it well enough to
perform a useful evaluation of the consequences?

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theaccordance
Less time than it would take for you to realize that our experiences form only
our perceptions, not universal law.

