
What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.? - drewvolpe
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601491/the-all-american-iphone/
======
jean_claude
It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers
are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance.
Would you do what these workers (
[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-
and...](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-
squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=0) ) do if you had any other opportunity at all?
Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and
still make an affordable device?

Relevant quote from article:

Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an
assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories,
according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of
tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift
fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was
producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no
American plant that can match that.”

~~~
dba7dba
> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no
> American plant that can match that.”

Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp.

I am GLAD there's no such American plant.

~~~
petecox
12 hour shifts sounds very 19th Century! Workers marched in the streets
against such things... I thought PRC was founded on the communist ideals of
the proletariat?

12 * 2 = 8 * 3.

Introduce an 8 hour day and you can hire 50% more workers!

~~~
throwitaway1
> I thought PRC was founded on the communist ideals of the proletariat?

China is a dictatorship which provides capitalists slave like workforce. The
capitalists get their slaves and can hypocritically point fingers at China and
how bad communism is, and the corrupt Chinese government gets his money.
Everybody is happy (except the victims of that cynical farce). That's shows
the power of PR and persuasion. I remember 15 years ago people still
protesting against China at its terrible working conditions in the west, or
against the treatment of Tibet by the Chinese government. Who questions that
today ? nobody, not even lefties.

Of course Apple could build the iPhone in the west and sell it at the exact
same price. It just wouldn't be as profitable as it is and would require
significant investments on infrastructure and factories but the "market" wants
high return on investment, not just profitability. Worker's rights arbitrage
is how corporations like Apple, any textile manufacturer or hardware
manufacturer got so rich.

Anybody who thinks that scheme made things cheaper needs to look at the insane
debts most western countries are running. That's the hidden cost of all that
system. That high debt is a sign the quality of life will go down in the west
in the foreseeable future.

------
bdcravens
"Donald Trump says that if he becomes president, he will “get Apple to start
making their computers and their iPhones on our land, not in China.”"

Perhaps Trump's next construction should be 100% American as well, as opposed
to his previous ones:

[http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/08/trump-
tower...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/08/trump-tower-was-
built-on-undocumented-immigrants-backs.html)

~~~
MajorLOL
You got me. I admit, I clicked wondering what aspect of the construction was
done off-shore. Then I realized it wasn't.

~~~
daveguy
Yup. Not done off-shore. Just using illegal immigrants. That shouldn't
surprise anyone. As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way
he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign. I'm sure he
will change and be more presidential after elected.

~~~
bdcravens
> As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he
> has been proud of that throughout his campaign.

That's his qualification to be sure. However, he's running on a platform where
he wouldn't afford others the opportunity to do the same.

> I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected.

They always do.

------
Longwelwind
I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we
always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe).

These jobs are becoming obsolete, and delocalizing to countries with lower
labor costs is only a step before factories become fully automated (and some
companies are reshoring because robots are becoming cheaper than outshore
workers). The workers here that are left with no job and no marketable skills
should be manifesting for an UMI instead of asking to politics & companies to
keep the factories here.

~~~
Alphasite_
Because you want to be the one holding the factories when the end game hits.

~~~
Teever
This seems to be the thing that everyone is missing in this conversation.

I agree with you but I've been wondering for a while if it's not a bad idea
for the west to pass the tedious stuff off to China to use their labour to
build our own automated factory.

It seems risky though.

------
aninteger
I thought that Trump's idea (Scenario 4?) was to raise the import/tariff fee
so that it would essentially cost the same regardless of where it was
manufactured. Another option would be to eliminate things like NAFTA. I'm not
saying these are good ideas (in fact they may be terrible), I just want to
point out additional scenarios.

~~~
WalterBright
A better approach would be to make it attractive to operate in the US.

~~~
adventured
I don't support Trump's plans regarding tariffs / trade, however he is also
supporting slashing the extremely non-competitive US corporate tax rate. Doing
that - bringing it down to levels comparable to European rivals - would
instantly make the US a lot more attractive to operate in.

And unfortunately while Bill Clinton strongly supports slashing the corporate
tax rate, Hillary is just as strongly opposed to doing so.

~~~
dba7dba
> extremely non-competitive US corporate tax rate

I'm hearing actual tax rate in real life is not that high, because of all
loopholes used by the corporations.

~~~
snowwrestler
The actual rate is lower because corporations keep so much capital off shore
because the nominal rate is so high.

------
wonkaWonka

      According to King at the Ames Lab, 
      an iPhone has about 75 elements in it,
      two-thirds of the periodic table.
    

I'm really going to need some percentages of mass here.

The thing that lands in the box. Not the catalysts, and substances required
for processes used during manufacture.

If I'm not holding it in my hands, right now, it doesn't make the list.

    
    
      01. H   (1) Hydrogen
      02. He  (2) Helium
      03. Li  (3) Lithium
      04. B   (5) Boron
      05. C   (6) Carbon
      06. N   (7) Nitrogen
      07. O   (8) Oxygen
      08. F   (9) Flourine
      09. Na (11) Sodium
      10. Mg (12) Magnesium
      11. Al (13) Aluminum
      12. Si (14) Silicon
      13. P  (15) Phosphorus
      14. S  (16) Sulfur
      15. Cl (17) Chlorine
      16. Ca (20) Calcium
      17. Sc (21) Scandium
      18. Ti (22) Titanium
      19. V  (23) Vanadium
      20. Cr (24) Chromium
      21. Mn (25) Manganese
      22. Fe (26) Iron
      23. Co (27) Cobalt
      24. Ni (28) Nickel
      25. Cu (29) Copper
      26. Zn (30) Zinc
      27. Ga (31) Gallium
      28. Ge (32) Germanium
      29. As (33) Arsenic
      30. Se (34) Selenium
      31. Br (35) Bromine
      32. Sr (38) Strontium
      33. Y  (39) Yttrium
      34. Zr (40) Zirconium
      35. Nb (41) Niobium
      36. Mo (42) Molybdenum
      37. Ru (44) Ruthenium
      38. Rh (45) Rhodium
      39. Pd (46) Palladium
      40. Ag (47) Silver
      41. Cd (48) Cadmium
      42. In (49) Indium
      43. Sn (50) Tin
      44. Sb (51) Antimony
      45. Te (52) Tellurium
      46. Ba (56) Barium
      47. La (57) Lanthanum
      48. Hf (72) Hafnium
      49. Ta (73) Tantalum
      50. W  (74) Tungsten
      51. Re (75) Rhenium
      52. Os (76) Osmium
      53. Ir (77) Iridium
      54. Pt (78) Platinum
      55. Au (79) Gold
      56. Hg (80) Mercury
      57. Tl (81) Thallium
      58. Bi (83) Bismuth
      59. Po (84) Polonium
      60. Rn (86) Radon
      61. Ce (58) Cerium
      62. Pr (59) Praseodymium
      63. Nd (60) Neodymium
      64. Sm (61) Promethium
      65. Eu (63) Europium
      66. Gd (64) Gadolinium
      67. Tb (65) Terbium
      68. Dy (66) Dysprosium
      69. Ho (67) Holmium
      70. Er (68) Erbium
      71. Tm (69) Thulium
      72. Yb (70) Ytterbium
      73. Lu (71) Lutetium
    

Some of those I'm not buying into.

~~~
jean_claude
I think the takeaway from his statements are that it is virtually impossible
to source the necessary raw materials that go into producing modern
electronics from any one country.

~~~
aab0
Some of the points are bogus, like the rare earths thing; they used to be
mined in the USA just fine. But China was cheaper, especially since they
didn't price in the negative externalities.

