
Twice as High Diet-Induced Thermogenesis After Breakfast vs. Dinner - prostoalex
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/105/3/dgz311/5740411?redirectedFrom=fulltext
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wdewind
I don't mean to be negative but this is another useless nutrition paper. It
shows effects we already know about, and it doesn't show them in more
convincing ways than previous studies, and it then it misinterprets the
relevance of these results for a headline.

You can't get anything useful if you focus the entire window on the post
prandial. The body is complex and caloric balancing is not a simple thing.
Studies that focus on appropriate (24 hrs+) periods of time never measure any
difference. Not only that their own study showed that:

> Low-calorie breakfast increased feelings of hunger (P < .001), specifically
> appetite for sweets (P = .007), in the course of the day.

So for many people who don't eat a large breakfast your compliance is going to
be impacted. Anyone familiar with nutritional science will tell you that
compliance is a much bigger deal than eeking out tiny theoretical shifts in
calories by shifting meal times, which even if you could prove were real would
absolutely not be worth it if it broke your overall compliance.

Outside of that, this isn't a novel finding. We already have small pilot
studies showing this stuff that have the same problems. Repeated science is
often underrated, but these results are uncontroversial, they are just over
interpreted and old.

> Extensive breakfasting should therefore be preferred over large dinner meals
> to prevent obesity and high blood glucose peaks even under conditions of a
> hypocaloric diet.

Like, sorry, no that's absolutely not a fair conclusion of these results. It's
just not.

~~~
Someone1234
> I don't mean to be negative but this is another useless nutrition paper. It
> shows effects we already know about

So I'm going to put you in the "nay" camp regarding the importance of
reproducibility[0] in science? Kind of funny that half the time nutritional
science gets criticized because it isn't reproduced/reproducible enough and
the other half because it is "useless" to reproduce the same findings. Cannot
win.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproducibility#Reproducible_r...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reproducibility#Reproducible_research)

~~~
wdewind
Did you read my entire comment? Feel like I addressed this here:

> We already have small pilot studies showing this stuff that have the same
> problems. Repeated science is often underrated, but these results are
> uncontroversial, they are just over interpreted and old.

In general I am strongly in favor of reproducing science, this study doesn't
really test anything helpful for either outcome though.

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rikelmens
Aligns with many recent studies on better insulin sensitivity in the AM, and
showing how early meals help sync internal circadian clocks (there is one
central and many peripheral).

"Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper."

P.S.: If you practice time-restricted eating (intermittent fasting), it's
better to skip dinner than to skip breakfast.

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maerF0x0
> better insulin sensitivity in the AM

I think it's more accurate to say "After a fast" .

Next study needs to shift these windows by 6 hours. I suspect it will show
nothing to do with circadian rhythm and everything to do with fasting/non-
fasted eating.

~~~
garren
I don’t think After a Fast” is accurate in the context. ‘In the AM” is
referring to the Dawn Phenomenon[0], isn’t it?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_phenomenon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_phenomenon)

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martin_a
Study group consisted of 16 people. Anecdotal results at best, sorry.

~~~
floatingatoll
Study group consisted of 16 _men_ and 0 _women_.

~~~
martin_a
Absolutely right!

Also "normal-weighted" is a pretty bad standard, cause that "criteria" is
easily flawed.

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jansan
In Germany there is an old saying that goes "Eat breakfast like an emperor,
lunch like a king, and dinner like a beggar." Isn't that roughly what the
paper concluded?

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gardenfelder
There is a video here by an M.D. who sells nothing but books on nutrition and
donates the profits to charity; the page includes links to all the papers he
cites [https://nutritionfacts.org/video/chronobiology-how-
circadian...](https://nutritionfacts.org/video/chronobiology-how-circadian-
rhythms-can-control-your-health-and-weight/)

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ericmcer
So now intermittent fasting is stupid? or we should reverse the fasting period
to evenings instead of mornings?

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Etheryte
Intermittent fasting has never been about specific times of eating. There are
a number of versions, eat two days, fast for one, eat in the day, fast in the
evening etc, but the idea is in the name, not the times. This research is
interesting insight but it doesn't conflict with the core principle behind
intermittent fasting in any way.

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ludamad
Any layman's explanation of health implications?

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coffeeboy27
I'm not a doctor but if I'm reading it correctly they did a study with 16
normal weight males and found that when eating in the morning their blood
glucose and insulin concentrations[1] were lower after breakfast compared to
dinner regardless of calorie consumption.

So eat more in the morning and less at night.

[1][https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/diabetes/normal-
regu...](https://www.endocrineweb.com/conditions/diabetes/normal-regulation-
blood-glucose)

~~~
mint2
This is a problem. No study should be male only. It creates a gender bias in
scientific evidence: There are metabolic difference between males and females.

~~~
_nothing
It's not a problem, it's just incomplete. From what I've seen, most studies
(especially with animals) start out with only male participants, to eliminate
the effect of menstruation and the related hormones, which we've seen can be
very potent.

This makes it easier on the researchers trying to conduct a preliminary study.
The limitations of the study just mean we can't necessarily generalize the
results to both men and women, people of different weights, (nor, I suspect,
people of various races,) or even, given the sample size, all men of normal
weight.

But first we see if we can detect an effect in "normal weight" males, and then
we have doubts about its applicability in other populations we test those
populations. This of course isn't the most thorough way of experimentation,
but it's the biggest bang for your buck when your resources and/or available
subject pool are limited.

~~~
im3w1l
> to eliminate the effect of menstruation and the related hormones, which
> we've seen can be very potent.

Interesting, never considered this.

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mindfulplay
Why are nutrition and social studies considered science?

They chart out a few numbers for very few people; have no understanding or
analysis of the underling biological or biochemical processes. The later of
which is hard, grungy and boring science - but that's really the important
high order bit.

This is hack territory. It's the easiest science with very low bar, but at
some point we have stop this madness.

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Leary
So.. Don't psych yourself out if you have a high body temperature after
breakfast?

