
Hololens pre-orders starting tomorrow, ships in 30 days - atilimcetin
http://mspoweruser.com/hololens-pre-orders-starting-tomorrow-ships-in-30-days/
======
nkoren
Hololens really does sound like an absolutely extraordinary and revolutionary
product. I'm genuinely excited to try it.

...And then I see mention of Skype, which is a product that -- since its
acquisition by Microsoft -- has gone steadily downhill in terms of its form,
functionality, stability, security, and essentially every other metric. It's
hard to find anybody who doesn't loathe it. There's some serious cognitive
dissonance in trying to contemplate Hololens and Skype simultaneously.

Actually, I had the same reaction when Hololens was first announced. "OMG, the
future is here! Thank you Microsoft!" I thought, and then immediately spent
the next 6 hours tracking down an idiotic standards-compliance bug which
existed in every version of Internet Explorer up until IE 11.[1]

I could go on at some length, but suffice to say that I am routinely
_astonished_ by Microsoft's R&D capabilities, yet virtually every interaction
I have with their actual software leaves me with a dire impression. (Except
for Excel, which for some reason Just Works for me). So as much as I want to
have high hopes for Hololens, I fear that crappy software will let it down.

Please, Microsoft -- prove me wrong!

1: window.location.origin, if you really want to know.

~~~
hacker_9
I love that MS tries to push the boundaries with new tech and ideas, but I
absolutely loathe them because of their fake marketing of the products they
actually do end up creating. Let me take this moment to remind everyone of the
Kinect teaser [1]. Now watch the Hololens teaser again [2]. They couldn't
deliver the Kinect as advertised 6 years ago, and the fact is they won't be
able to deliver the Hololens either as advertised. $3000 is a lot of money to
put on a lie.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qlHoxPioM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qlHoxPioM)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aThCr0PsyuA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aThCr0PsyuA)

~~~
thro1237
I am not a gamer, but I bought an XBox 360 and Kinect because it had the
messenger app and my parents 10000 miles away can see their grandkids who are
always running around. And it worked really well. Then one day, they dropped
support for messenger. Now, if you want to have the same functionality, you
have to get an XBOX One that integrates with Skype. Several people complained
in Microsoft forums about taking away a functionality they explicitly paid
for. They were greeted with a link to the legal Terms of Service. That is it.
I am not going to get something from a company that does this bait and switch.

~~~
pjc50
Ouch, I'd not heard about that particular bit of functionality removal.

~~~
thro1237
They removed a perfectly working functionality. At the time of removal they
said it was because they wanted to bring in Skype to XBOX 360. But skype never
came to Xbox 360 and it came only in XBox One. This entire feature that is
touted in this video [1] is not available in Xbox 360 now. And I bought an
XBox 360 because Microsoft's marketing material said it is available.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsTimrYTIQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsTimrYTIQ)

------
nissimk
I tried the hololens at the Microsoft store on fifth avenue. I got 3 five
minute demos: a 3d modeling app, a wristwatch marketing presentation and the
robots attack video game. The device is really quite amazing. Being wireless
seems like a big deal to me. The limited field of view is certainly an issue,
but seeing objects suspended in front of you is surreal and futuristic. With
cardboard and oculus I got motion sickness. Holo lens didn't cause vertigo,
but it made me feel like I had eye fatigue. I don't know a better way to
describe it. The possibilities for these devices are amazing, I hope they live
up to the expectation.

To me the killer app for these would be football replays and extra overlays
beyond TV.

~~~
ElijahLynn
This. "The limited field of view is certainly an issue".

I hope this is eliminated in future versions. The Epson Moverio has this issue
too and it is very awkward seeing a rectangle of available AR. I haven't tried
the Hololens yet but I hear it is still there.

p.s. The Virtual Reality NYC meetup is actually hosted inside Microsoft each
month. They have given any talks or demos on the Hololens since I have been
going. I hope this will change with this announcement!

[http://www.meetup.com/Virtual-Reality-NYC/](http://www.meetup.com/Virtual-
Reality-NYC/)

~~~
soylentcola
I think the FOV limitations are a result of decisions made based on current
tech capabilities. While I'm sure they could've made something with much wider
FOV (and I believe earlier prototypes had this) it would mean being tethered
to a more powerful computer or a bulkier/more expensive headset.

When faced with this, it looks like they went with limited FOV in order to
keep it standalone and relatively ergonomic. I think this makes sense because
processing power and software will continue to improve and allow wider FOV
with equally good performance. They just chose to keep the ergonomics and
lower the FOV in these early units to keep performance good. With better chips
and software, wider FOV will be akin to raising the resolution on a game when
you get a new video card.

------
Eupolemos
Whoever wrote that piece need a serious spanking.

My mind is just blown with the possibilities of a software-layer on our real
world, slowly growing from this initial piece of hardware. I want to be a part
of this.

And then they put THAT picture, with the selling-point being games, 3D tours
and Skype. This is just horrible.

Do they even care?

~~~
rch
My impression was that they were overselling, if anything.

------
zhte415
I've a very strong vision of holoprojections. From sitting through numerous
meetings with remote teams, where tele- or video-conferences just doesn't
work.

People lose focus, even through video interaction. How incredible would it to
be to walk through an office and interact with colleagues, that simply aren't
there (not an American Psycho reference. They are there, any you can see and
talk to them in the physical whole, they're simple not _physically_ there).

How would this change things? Initially, perhaps not a lot, 10 to 15 years
out. Physical interaction would still be deemed prime. And this vision is
sans-headset (office decoration firms get busy preparing multiple remote
sites). Beyond that timeframe, would it be so normal to have a strong business
relationship with someone never physically met? What would be the impact of
'hanging out' over lunch to develop relationships. That seems a bigger
challenge.

But to put that in perspective, it is only 400 years since Shakespeare's
death, that's 10 generations of people that live until 40, or more
realistically around 7 generations of hereditary lifespans where the youngest
generation is in physical/educational contact with the eldest generation.
That's not a long time for transfer of ideas for revolutionary ideas to
happen.

Will we all be on a tropical beach developing VR apps? No. Old nature dies
hard. This is an augmentation, not a replacement.

------
anc84
Better source would be the copy of the original text at Reddit:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HoloLens/comments/484llx/microsoft_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/HoloLens/comments/484llx/microsoft_hololens_launch_games_apps_detailed/)

------
megaman821
The Hololens technology looks really exciting. I can't wait for a consumer
version. That said, this release looks like it is analogous to the Oculus Rift
dev kit, we are years away from a consumer version. On the positive side, most
the shortcomings of the device look like that can be solved with a little bit
of time. The field-of-view will improve with processing power and battery
life, and room scanning and tracking will improve with a cheaper and smaller
sensors.

------
bruceb
The most realistic part of the video was the instructor helping the woman fix
the pipe under the sink. Not to over the top and actually useful. But for this
plumbing task and similar tasks, it seems a cheaper headset could be made.

Would be a great opportunity for lower cost, more focused product to be "good
enough" instead of being overly ambitious but out of reach for most people.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_more focused product to be "good enough" instead of being overly ambitious_

I don't think you appreciate how difficult that use case is and it ends up
being the same level of difficulty as doing basically anything else in AR.

~~~
bruceb
You are right I am certainly no expert in AR (or VR) but seems having a person
circle something on a screen is easier than projecting 3d images that you can
manipulate?

~~~
AndrewKemendo
_but seems having a person circle something on a screen is easier than
projecting 3d images that you can manipulate?_

Well it is, that's basically what ScopeAR does, but they use 3D based markers
and animated objects.

The Hololens video however is showing that the new element (circle something)
is being "glued" to the object without a specific image tag - which means you
have to have both an accurate scan of the environment and 3D object glued to
it. Very hard to do.

------
fsloth
They seem to have a new football themed promo video up
[https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-
us](https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/en-us)

Funny, they show football players, all I can see is future generals guiding
their troops in the field with this.

------
spyder
If it still has that very small FOV then I cannot see why anybody would buy it
for that high price.

[https://www.google.hu/search?q=hololens+fov&tbm=isch](https://www.google.hu/search?q=hololens+fov&tbm=isch)

~~~
partiallypro
It's a devkit, not for general release. Microsoft has already addressed why
the FoV is narrow, and it has to do with battery life and power needed to
process the scene. So the wider FoV will come when battery tech and processing
power catch-up.

I've used a Hololens, yes the FoV is off-putting, but the technology itself is
incredible. If I had $3K to throw around, or if I were a big enterprise
looking to invest for various research using Hololens, I'd say it would be
worth it.

~~~
ultramancool
> battery tech

> catch-up

So... never?

------
therein
> HoloLens Developer Edition will be available for $3000.

Wow. I'm a 23 year old Software Engineer living in the Bay Area and making six
figures. I have plenty of disposable income yet I still find this expensive.
If they aren't targeting me, who are they targeting? I don't think a senior
executive at an Investment Banking firm will develop apps for their prototype
in his free time.

~~~
supercoder
Agencies, game companies etc.

The price point is designed to stop people like yourself grabbing it thinking
it's going to be a full experience day 1.

But it's cheap enough where anyone who'll be in the position to develop
anything of quality to grab it without thinking twice.

~~~
monk_e_boy
This. Games companies who are spending $100K a year for a _single_ developer
isn't going to be worried about $3K for a holo lens.

------
leeoniya
> As expected, the development edition will come with Skype which will allow
> users to “interact in the holographic world”

will it _require_ Skype?

------
sciurus
Better link: [https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2016/02/29/announcing-
micr...](https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2016/02/29/announcing-microsoft-
hololens-development-edition-open-for-pre-order-shipping-march-30)

------
hobo_mark
Isn't Meta supposed to launch its new thing on the same day, and cost an order
of magnitude less?

[https://www.facebook.com/RobertScoble/posts/1015392929212465...](https://www.facebook.com/RobertScoble/posts/10153929292124655)

~~~
michaelbuckbee
Looks like Wednesday: [https://www.metavision.com](https://www.metavision.com)

------
kefka
Hmm. I thought they canceled this project.

When I demoed it months ago, it was so not ready for primetime. The AR area
was pathetic, and it used IR lasers for scanning.

The AR area is self-explanatory: when the size is not much bigger than a
postage stamp, your project makes a great tech demo, and a really shitty
customer product.

The IR laser is problematic in multiple ways:

1\. If it's the same module as found on the kinect, it's a 90mW laser, which
is a hell of a lot of power on a battery platform. Expect much reduced power
in scanning mode.

2\. IR means the device is useless outdoors and near windows. Think of
anyplace where the Kinect fails: so too will this.

I'd pay $1000 for this, not the $3k they're asking. The tech just isn't there.
I just hope this doesn't cause an AR desolation in the community the way VR
had done for 10 years.

~~~
sgift
> I'd pay $1000 for this, not the $3k they're asking. The tech just isn't
> there. I just hope this doesn't cause an AR desolation in the community the
> way VR had done for 10 years. reply

And so the high price works exactly as intended. Microsoft KNOWS that this
isn't ready for prime-time, so they put this price tag on it to make sure that
it isn't buyed by someone just enthusiastic who is then dismayed when it is
"not ready for prime-time" (as advertised!). They've stated multiple times
that this is the reason for the price tag.

~~~
kefka
Cost is only a part of the problems with this platform.

IR scanning is inherently erroneous. I simply can't be:

1\. Outside 2\. Near windows 3\. Near IR flood sources 4\. Reflective/glass
areas

It just doesn't work on any of those areas. That's the huge unsolvable problem
with this platform. And no, frequency shifting to a different wavelength still
has the same problems (the sun is a great wideband emitter).

Even if their platform was brought to the best their hardware could bear, it
still would fail.

EDIT: For those of you giving -1's, how about you comment and explain why you
are doing so. I'm providing a technical argument why this platform will fail,
based on my experiences with this headset and my work in computer vision.

~~~
freehunter
"That's the huge unsolvable problem with this platform"

Unsolvable problems tend to be unsolvable. I can solve this with three words:
Use it inside. And on the next version (which, let's be honest, they're
targeting a "next version" for general release, not this one), they use lasers
instead of IR.

If you want to use it outside, it might be unsolvable for the current release,
but it's hardly unsolvable for the platform.

~~~
kefka
The IR emitted is a structured laser light at IR frequencies.

They're already using "lasers". The problem with using any sort of structured
light is that your frequency can't be in the same band of any sort of flood
lights (sunlight, ballasts, IR camera lights). It's also why X-Rays work well:
it's a structured light (kind of) and can be used because we won't have a
flood of XRays everywhere.

The problem isn't with "IR": they should not be using a structured light
solution. It's just not durable enough for 3d scanning applications. It's also
why I've worked on a SLAM-like 3d scanner. Understanding geometry, corners,
edges, and gradients are much more versatile in scanning, because it is
_passive_. Our very eyes don't send out beams of light, and yet we manage a
very accurate SLAM-like map inside our own heads.

The problem with the Hololens is that until they switch to a vision-only
system, they're going to be plagued with problems regarding IR sources (or
whatever freq they choose).

Source: me (3Dollar scanner, amateur radio operator, OpenCV reprap
implementer)

------
hudibras
The Minecraft Hololens demo from last year is pretty awesome.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEL8XDQFrlI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEL8XDQFrlI)

~~~
frik
Yeah, but it was fake. The POV is very small and is a deal breaker:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11195008](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11195008)

------
dolguldur
Does anyone know the resolution? There doesn't seem to be any numbers out, but
roughly, it's very much likely less than 4K, probably 1080p and not too
unlikely less, right?!

------
snarfy
> HoloLens Developer Edition will be available for $3000

Seems a bit steep. Hopefully this doesn't represent the retail price.

~~~
jonknee
Since when does early dev kit pricing have anything to do with retail pricing?

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joe563323
Stupid Windows always asks to update and resets all the apps to defaults(i.e
its own apps). It will be much worse and more irritating if microsoft wins in
this space. F __c* you Microsoft.

------
jordache
where are the realistic demos? I only see polished marketing commercials...

------
cm2187
But isn't it a google glass with color?

~~~
Klathmon
not even a little...

Google Glass was a notification system that sits above-ish your one eye.

Holo Lens is trying to be full AR.

------
axx
It's clear that Microsoft is not targeting the same audience as Oculus and
HTC. 3000 USD for a developer edition is a bold statement.

I guess hololens will "fail". A few big companies will buy them and develop
random software to impress clients. But i'm pretty sure we will not see much
else.

------
hoodoof
I think Microsoft has bet on the wrong horse.

When I play games I want to get OUT of my reality. I don't want every game
being painted onto my lounge room.

It might be a great experience if you have a lounge room as stylish and clean
and spacious as Bill Gates or Satya Nadella, but I have a small cluttered
lounge room and I have no interest in playing games projected into that
reality.

I'm holding a fistful of dollars which I am trying to throw at Sony as soon as
they'll take it from me for immersive VR.

~~~
leoedin
I don't think Microsoft really see this as just a gaming device. I saw a
presentation by some members of the hololens team that really emphasised the
devices use right through the product design process. I think they see it as a
productivity device for design studios and businesses that happens to have
some game applications.

And honestly, I think they're on to something. Using an HTC Vive with the tilt
brush app really emphasises just how intuitive 3D design work can be in VR.
The robot repair demo features a really eye-opening moment when you're looking
into the innards of an exploded-view robot. It's such an intuitive way to work
with 3D models, and so obvious that it will eventually become commonplace.

The biggest problem with the Vive demos is that you're fully immersed.
Hololens addresses that.

~~~
GFischer
See for example ScopeAR (a YC-backed company, YC Summer 2015 I think) for some
use cases:

[http://www.scopear.com/](http://www.scopear.com/)

video:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=o_cD_jVaWJo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=o_cD_jVaWJo)

------
praeivis
>HoloTour which will offer “users 360-degree panoramic displays of places like
Rome and Machu Picchu.

For $3000 now days you can visit half the world.

