
Calgary student has been studying decibel levels in hand dryers since age nine - prostoalex
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-student-nora-keegan-hand-dyer-research-decibel-1.5185853
======
tda
My kids get nervous as soon as they even see a hand dryer. They start crying
when it's on. I thought they were exaggerating, it never occurred to me that
sound levels for kids are different because they are smaller (though it makes
complete sense). That, coupled with higher sensitivity to noise and more
delicate hearing canals of youngsters kind of make me feel like a bad parent
for trying to let them use the dryers anyway (Even though I have long since
given up). This kids research proves my kids right, and I am not easily
convinced ;) Great accomplishment for I should listen to my kids.

Already an impressive combination of curiosity and perseverance to get a
scientific paper published for any non-academic, let alone a 13 year old!!

edit: The absolute worst things are these [https://www.ehanddryers.com/hand-
dryers/tap-hand-dryers](https://www.ehanddryers.com/hand-dryers/tap-hand-
dryers), my kids just plain refuse to wash their hands out of fear of
accidentally triggering the dryer

~~~
PakG1
_> > The absolute worst things are these [https://www.ehanddryers.com/hand-
dryers/tap-hand-dryers](https://www.ehanddryers.com/hand-dryers/tap-hand-
dryers), my kids just plain refuse to wash their hands out of fear of
accidentally triggering the dryer_

Wow, I was recently in an airport bathroom where a young boy absolutely
refused to wash his hands. His father was extremely patient and said that he
needed to wash his hands. The boy was near tears saying that they would miss
their plane. It was all a really strange and illogical situation. Until I read
your sentence. I don't know if this is why the boy wouldn't wash his hands,
but it makes me realize that sometimes kids have reasons for what they say or
do, even if they can't explain it. Reminds me of the hand licking incident:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18842009](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18842009)

I thought I had read all about the hand licking incident and learned not to
make presumptions about kids. Today, I realize that the lesson hasn't really
been ingrained into me yet.

~~~
soulofmischief
Interesting, thanks for sharing that link. I had a ton of weird tics as a kid
which could easily be traced back to the large amounts of prescribed
amphetamines I was forced to take under threat of punishment. The solution to
the tics was... more punishment.

It took me years to realize things such as, the reason I would chew on my
shirt color all day even though I would routinely get sent to the principal's
office and publicly embarrased by teachers or beaten at home was just because
my jaw would get very tense and chewing motions relaxed it, and my mouth was
the Sarah Desert and sucking on the fabric pulled moisture into my mouth.

~~~
Balgair
You too!? I thought I was the only one!

My shirts would be sopping wet in the front and would all have tooth holes
from my chewing them, I'd go through a shirt a week nearly.

I wasn't on any meds but my teacher at the time would dole out punishments
regularly to me in class. I've put 2 and 2 together before, but I never knew I
wasn't alone in this behaviour! Thanks for commenting, this really helped me.

~~~
soulofmischief
All those poor buttons. And then I come to find out that one popular tip for
reducing dry mouth in dry environments is literally _sucking on a button_.

I wonder how common it really is in young children. Certainly seemed I was the
only one dealing with it at several different schools. Is it too late to form
a club?

Similarly, I had issues with scratching my nose in public, nail-biting, hair-
pulling, picking at scabs, sucking my thumb at night... punished and beaten
all the time for it, and some particularly nasty teachers would try to make a
public example... come to find out in my adulthood that I have a literal
disorder, body-focused repetitive behavior (BFRB) syndrome, which is related
to OCD and bipolar disorder and ADHD which I also deal with, and heavily
exacerbated and permanently worsened by my forced exposure to intense
medication.

------
mauvehaus
My personal least favorites are the Excel dryers, which seem to be becoming
quite common. They may be reasonably loud when your hands aren't beneath them,
but they become unreasonably loud when you put your hands in the air stream
and start rubbing them together. I find that you get white-ish noise/half-
whistling noises at an absolutely miserable level.

Many years ago, I actually had a desk in an office that was maybe 10-15 meters
from a nearby Excel hand dryer, separated by two doors. I hated it with a
passion. Every time somebody dried their hands, I'd hear it. I left that job
for a lot of reasons, and the hand dryer wasn't exactly one of them, but I
wasn't sad to be rid of it.

And I'm not 9. I'm 35. I find that I have pretty good hearing, at least as
compared to my partner.

What gets a little weird is that since leaving software and making a career
change to woodworking, I've gotten more sensitive to loud noise. I used to
take the subway to work like many other people. Now, I find that the noise of
the train is too loud.

I'm religious about wearing hearing protection in the shop. I don't know if my
hearing has gotten objectively better, or if I'm just more aware of loud noise
than I used to be. It'd be hard to do a study on that without a time machine
though.

~~~
cglace
I’m interested to hear about your switch from software to woodworking. How did
you get started? Do you make money by building pieces on commission? Are you
glad you made the switch?

~~~
mauvehaus
I got started taking a basic hand tools class and followed that with other
evening and week-long classes. I'm actually not somebody who's been in the
shop since they could walk; I'm pretty late to the trade.

At the moment it's like that old joke: "What do you call a drummer without a
girlfriend? ... Homeless." I do make some money on commission work, but not
enough to cover my living expenses. What I do make I'm largely investing back
into the business, which I just started. This is probably fewer tools than you
might think; I pay for annual access to the bigger tools I don't have, and I
have a pretty decent selection of the moderate-sized tools that I got for
pretty short money (band saw, drill press, and table saw. All good tools,
total: <500 USD).

Mostly it's stuff like a camera and lights to shoot my work, a logo, and the
other sorts of things that separate a hobby from a business. A better website
[0] is on the list as well, but never having been a web developer, my partner
and I are likely going to use squarespace or something similar.

Am I glad I made the switch? Emphatically yes. I love the woodworking aspect.
I'm happy to report that my partner is helping with the business-y things.
Also: she's a _way_ better photographer than I am. Any of the pictures on my
existing website that look good are probably hers; the crappy ones are mine
(and need to be re-shot around the time we get around to settling on a logo
and commit to getting a real website up).

TL;DR:

I'm lucky to be married to the world's most supportive partner.

[0] [http://longwalkwoodworking.com](http://longwalkwoodworking.com) <\- HTML
like it's 1998, CSS lifted pretty much straight from the "68 bytes of CSS..."
article posted here a while ago. There really do need to be pictures on the
home page, a contact page, an about page, etc. Hosted on github pages, no
Jekyll, etc. I threw something up so that I could put a URL on business cards
and have it go to something.

~~~
cglace
Really great looking stuff. How long did it take to get your dovetails
perfected?

~~~
mauvehaus
Thanks! I'm still working on getting the dovetails perfected. Like a lot of
things, they require practice. While I usually get them right, if I haven't
cut any in a while, they often come out a little rough until I get my hands
used to making the right motions again.

Really perfecting them would mean getting them both accurate and _fast_. I
definitely need to cut a few more to get to that stage, and do it regularly to
keep it there.

------
userbinator
Misread it as "hair dryer" at first, but the principle is similar...

Fans are loud, especially small powerful ones. There's plenty of other
comments here complaining about the Dysons, and I agree; and I also much
prefer the older ones (with a heater), which seem to have a far slower fan and
a deeper note. That said, I find towels/paper most effective for drying.

But if insisting on air drying, perhaps a design with the blower elsewhere
(maybe centralised, like a vacuum --- another fanned device that's also very
loud), a local heater, and slower air flow would be more ideal.

~~~
__MatrixMan__
A few days ago I stood before the hand dryer in my office bathroom (or at
least I think it was a hand dryer, as it was mounted waist high to the left of
a sink) and puzzled at its labeling. I even took a picture:

[https://ibb.co/mCNdGdh](https://ibb.co/mCNdGdh)

There's no shower anywhere nearby, but this object which I consider to be
obviously a hand dryer is labeled "hair dryer". Surely the people who make
these know what they're for...

And I agree, a large tank of compressed air with an on-demand heater on the
human end would be pretty nice.

~~~
freehunter
For what it's worth, I've seen (and used) those in gyms and bike lockers at
offices as a hair dryer. It's possible the person/company who bought it and
installed it did not know what they were buying.

I don't know that there's really any difference between this and a hand dryer,
but I've certainly used them as hair dryers too.

------
aitchnyu
Most of us outgrow and then forget how cool water makes small children shiver,
hunger and sun makes them weak, bitter vegetables are overpowering, sitting on
grass without pants is painful, so is affection, unpolished wooden benches,
men's stubble etc.

~~~
zaroth
> men’s stubble

One of my great joys in life is how much my daughter loves my stubble. She
grabs my face with both her hands and declares “Sooooo scratchy!” and then
squeals and laughs when I nuzzle her cheek with mine and pretend to be a
horse. From ~3 yrs old, now going on 10.

My heart will definitely break a notch if the day ever comes she outgrows
that!

~~~
cr0sh
She may outgrow it, but she'll probably never forget it.

I'm a guy, but I recall as a kid feeling my dad's stubble when I gave him a
hug as a child, when he came home from work, smelling of sweat and tar (he
worked as a road maintenance worker - a very hard job, especially in the
summertime in California).

He passed away 14 years ago, and I'm turning 46 in a couple days; how time
passes...

~~~
arkades
Same here. My strongest sense memories of my dad are the feel of his shirt
against my cheek when I'd run up to hug him when he got home from work, the
feel of the callouses on his fingers, and the stubble on his cheek under my
hand.

I remember those things more often than I do the sight of his face, or the
sound of his voice, or the smell of his cologne. By far.

------
jgalentine007
It's odd that this article popped up, as I have been recently thinking about
noise pollution when walking my dog around the outside of my neighborhood. My
unscientific guess is that 50% of vehicles that pass by are significantly
louder than they ought to be, and my further guess is that at least half of
those vehicles are louder because the driver desires it. In the grand scheme
of the world's problems it is probably very low on the list - but I'm guessing
it negatively affects people, animals and insects more than you would expect.
Would it be so difficult for noise pollution to be regulated like emissions
(in fact, couldn't it be done in the emissions process most states in the USA
perform?)

~~~
jacquesm
> at least half of those vehicles are louder because the driver desires it

Motor cycles are the worst for this. It's not rare to have whole neighborhoods
woken up because one of those passes through.

~~~
buckminster
There is a reason for this. When car drivers stop pulling out in front of
motorcyclists, motorcyclists will stop fitting loud exhausts.

~~~
maerF0x0
I ride and do "feel" the sentiment that loud pipes might help in some
situations. But here's a rider-centric article that helps address the
situation _and_ provide some actionable advice.

[https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/stop-saying-loud-
pipes...](https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/stop-saying-loud-pipes-save-
lives)

~~~
jacquesm
Thanks, that article makes lots of good sense. I see more and more riders (on
relatively quiet bikes) drive with high visibility gear, especially on the
highway, which is great.

But those are rarely the 'loud' types, they're just people using their bikes
as transport rather than as an attention seeking device.

------
adrianmonk
I wonder if anyone has considered reverberation in these measurements. It's
going to make the noise louder than it would otherwise be.

Basically, the loudness of a sound hitting your ear is a combination of
multiple factors:

1\. How loud the sound source is.

2\. How close your ear is to it.

3\. How much it reverberates or dissipates.

Imagine if a hand dryer were installed outdoors in an open field. Sound would
emanate from the dryer, then wander off never to return.

Now imagine a hand dryer in a room with carpet and some soft furniture like a
couch. Sound would emanate from the dryer, and some of it would hit surfaces
that absorb it. But some of the sound would also hit reflective surfaces like
walls or glass, and that reflected sound could come back to your ear and
increase the total noise level.

Now consider what a bathroom is like. For ease of cleaning, it's entirely hard
surfaces. Concrete, porcelain, tile, metal, etc. These absorb almost no sound.
And bathrooms are typically pretty small rooms. It's basically the worst case
for taking an already-loud thing and making nearly all the noise reach your
ear.

~~~
EdwardDiego
I refuse to use the Dyson at work for precisely this reason, and I try to not
be there when other people do - our bathroom is a rather small confined and
reflective place.

~~~
daveFNbuck
I find that Dyson makes some of the quieter hand dryers I've encountered,
although maybe that's because they tend to be in larger restrooms. Starbucks
really hurts my ears with much older style hand dryers in their single-
occupancy restroom.

------
proee
Hand dryers can also spread airborne bacteria onto your hands. Perhaps modern
dryers include intake filters to address this issue, but the filter would need
replaced on a regular schedule, which is probably not a realistic expectation
for most restroom facilities.

[https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-bacterial-horror-
of-...](https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-bacterial-horror-of-the-hot-
air-hand-dryer-2018051113823)

~~~
Reason077
Dyson models do have HEPA filters on the air intakes.

~~~
hwillis
Just don't touch the basin area in the bottom!

~~~
adrianmonk
Just don't touch is a tall order with Dyson hand dryers. They are
fundamentally hard to use correctly because of tight clearances.

The way they work is based on the idea of a narrow stream of air that gets
water off your hands better. But for the stream to remain narrow and not
dissipate, you have to get your hands close to the equipment. It's based on
almost but not quite touching it.

Positioning your hands in a careful and controlled manner is, ergonomically
speaking, an uphill battle. So on average, it won't happen often.

In other words, Dyson hand dryers kind of trap you into accidentally touching
the part you don't want to touch.

Worse, the same applies to all the people who used the hand dryer before you.
It's a very reasonable bet that the surface where the air comes out has been
touched by someone who didn't use soap when they washed their hands.

~~~
Reason077
I can't say I've ever experienced this issue with the air blades. They seem
easy to use them without touching any part of the hand dryer. I'm surprised
that people have trouble with this!

~~~
iforgotpassword
Are you some kind of superhuman? Even if you try really hard and aim
precisely, as soon as the air turns on your hands get pushed to one side
because the pressure is not exactly the same in both sides.

~~~
Reason077
Weird... maybe they are different where you are? Older models, or not
installed/adjusted correctly?

I use these all the time (they’re pretty much everywhere in the U.K.) and
haven’t experienced this unbalanced pressure issue. They always seem pretty
much equal pressure on each side to me.

~~~
dubyah
Their official usage video shows touching of the sides and that person doesn't
appear to have particularly large hands either.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExuvJkZ61Cg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExuvJkZ61Cg)

With large hands, there's an extra degree of difficulty to avoid touching the
sides and the bottom. It still leaves you with wet wrists and damp fingers.

------
jasonmp85
For what it's worth, the two models singled out in the article are the MOST
common at restaurants near me new enough to have recently reno'd their
bathrooms. I don't know if they're cheap, or if they're "fancy" so they're
trendy, or if it's some weird American thing about having the SUV of hand
dryers, but the Xcelerator and Dyson things are _endemic_. My 6yo has been
complaining about them for years and not once did I ever tell him he was
wrong; in fact I've taken to just walking back to my table with wet hands and
drying them off with a napkin if they're going to be serving me the shit
sandwich of hearing damage for washing my hands.

I think the simplest solution would be for municipalities' health departments
to outlaw them, or at least set VERY conservative noise limits.

------
chousuke
I hate air dryers perhaps slightly too vehemently. I think it would be a net
positive even if they were simply removed from everywhere without replacement.

I'm not sure why they're so common given that they seem to only make things
worse.

~~~
Reason077
But what are the alternatives?

\- Paper towels? Environmentally unsound.

\- Washable towel on a continuous roller/spindle thing? Common in past
decades, now pretty rare. Requires regular servicing. Expensive? [1]

\- Don’t offer hand drying at all? Uncomfortable especially in cold climates.
Might discourage people from washing their hands at all.

While I agree they need to be quieter, Hand dryers are still the best
technology we have right now.

[1] The British Library still uses these in their washrooms, presumably
because of noise concerns with hand dryers.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Paper towels are recyclable and made out of recycled paper, at least. They are
the most hygienic solution out there.

I still see the towel rolls around, they're a good option as well. Maintenance
for (esp. public) toilets is never not going to be a thing, but it does
require a bit more infrastructure to maintain (= washing out etc). But there's
companies that will take care of that.

Not offering hand drying is the worst; drying your hands is arguably even more
important than washing them when it comes to hygiene.

Anyway beyond that, fixing the hand dryers is also an option. Use larger but
slower rotating fans. Dyson's machines have the problem that they have
relatively small, high-speed motors.

~~~
mattmanser
They're not recyclable. If they're made from recycled paper, their fibres will
be too short, like tissue paper or toilet roll.

On top of that, people might be using it to wipe _anything_ , which could
potentially ruin the rest of the recycling.

If you're putting any of that into your recycling, you're doing it wrong.

Also, do not recycle any paper/cardboard with grease or food contamination,
especially pizza boxes with grease on, they will also ruin a recycling run.

~~~
cabaalis
> If you're putting any of that into your recycling, you're doing it wrong.

Hence the main problem with recycling. No reasonable person can know all the
rules about plastics, what kinds of papers, etc. Why can't sorters sort it all
out? Because nobody knows what to pre-sort.

~~~
_jal
Oh, come on. If you're capable of navigating normal life, you're capable of
recycling. What you're saying is that you won't spend five minutes absorbing a
one page document.

Recology has probably the most complicated arrangement I've had, and, well,
this is not exactly rocket surgery:

[https://www.recology.com/recology-san-francisco/what-goes-
wh...](https://www.recology.com/recology-san-francisco/what-goes-where/)

~~~
Tempest1981
Nice. What puzzles me is fast-food places with 3 bins (compost, recycling,
trash) with these pictures on each -- when instead the pictures should be of
the actual containers/wrappers that the restaurant uses. Wouldn't that be more
helpful?

------
henvic
I rather use my own t-shirt to dry my hands than use a hand dryer. It should
have been years since I last used one. I hate it since a child.

Automated paper towels dispensers should be the rule, not some fancy air blade
thingy.

If I'm healthy, it is also good for the environment.

I never liked hand dryers both because of noise and the risks of spreading
germs. I'd only use them on a brand new restroom, then never any more.

~~~
merpnderp
I've always used my clothes over an air hand dryer. You know they have to be
nasty because of all the water blown off hands that are likely only marginally
cleaner than before washing, and that nastiness gets aerosolized and spread
around the entire bathroom. The front and sides of my pants to wick enough
water away so I can use my hands while they air dry the rest of the way:
problem solved.

~~~
EADGBE
I'm most concerned with touching the handle/door with a bare hand. Too many
people don't properly (or worse, at all) wash their hands after using a
restroom. Therefore, I stick with the paper-towel grab.

The step-handle is a nice solution to this, sometimes.

~~~
MH15
I've never understood why more restroom doors don't open out. It's empirically
better if you can just push the door open with an elbow.

~~~
9anomaly
It should be an international standard that: * rest rooms have never-empty
paper towels * rest room doors have a trash can next to them

or simply restrooms with no doors like most airports

------
jawns
I don't usually wish cartoonish misfortune on anybody, but I make an exception
for the person who decided that the infant changing table should be installed
right next to the Dyson air dryer in a certain popular retail store.

That person should have a piano dropped on them.

It's awesome that this young scientist decided to investigate and call
attention to this issue, and even better that she's resolved to help come up
with solutions!

~~~
JimBrimble35
Not to mention studies showing that hand dryers, with the Dyson models leading
the pack, do an excellent job of distributing bacteria over a large area.

------
Havoc
I don’t mind them in general. Some of the new high speed ones are absolutely
horrendous in this regard. Literally hurts my ears even a couple meters away

I’ll rather walk out with dripping hands

~~~
danw1979
I feel the same. I dry my hands on my trousers and wear headphones in the
toilets to avoid the blast of white (?) noise from other users of the high-
speed dryers at work.

It wouldn't surprise me if the UK regulations on these devices also only
measure the noise levels without hands in the airflow... there's no way these
are legal when they are actually in use.

~~~
fesoliveira
Don't know why you are being downvoted, but at my gym I go through the same
situation. Whenever I go into the change room/washroom, I go to the locker
furthest from the dryer, meters away from it. It doesn't really matter since
every time someone activates it, it sounds as if it blowing right next to me.

------
loginatnine
My daughter refuses to use the big, tank less toilets that you find in public
restrooms because she's scared of them. Never thought the noise level could be
an issue in the origin of her fear but these things are loud when they go off
and most are now motion activated so they trigger as soon as you get up.

This all makes more sense now, thanks to this kid for this, I've never
realized how noise was different for kids.

~~~
bluGill
The motion activated ones go off when you move a little, not when you stand
up. I've had them go off twice while trying to go, then not go off when he was
finally done. It is not pleasant to have a toilet flush under you.

~~~
pwg
If there is anything to hang it from, a long strip of toilet tissue, hung down
in front of the sensor eye, generally prevents this effect of premature
flushing.

~~~
penagwin
This is a good tip thanks!

I'm sensitive to loud noises and some public bathrooms have really, really,
really loud and honestly just flat out aggressive toilets.

------
darfikk
I recommend a read of [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/25/hand-
dryers-...](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/25/hand-dryers-paper-
towels-hygiene-dyson-airblade) which I found really interesting before
committing to the anti hand dryer syndicate.

------
b3lvedere
Kudos to the great research.

My kids hate the Dyson hand dryers. These things are incredibly loud.

~~~
saw-lau
My son (autistic and generally sensitive to noise) point-blank refuses to go
into public toilets/restrooms just in case one goes off. :-(

~~~
leibnitz27
I'm in exactly the same boat. To be honest, I've started to get twitchy
whenever anyone uses one when he's NOT around, I'm that used to watching out
for them.

Hand dryers. Leaf blowers. Hair dryers. Hoovers.

But bowling alleys and swimming pools are fine. I really want to figure out
the spectrum of noise that hurts.

~~~
penagwin
I've been sensitive to loud noises (still can't drive with my windows down)
since I was a kid, and I've been diagnosed by a doctor to be on the spectrum
(albeit high functioning) for various other reasons as well.

It's obviously different for everyone, but for me it comes down to a few
things:

* Generally the higher pitch noises are way worse then a low deep "growl"

* Sudden, high decibel noises, especially if they're unexpected are BAD

* High decibel repetitive noises (ever have only one window open in your car on the highway and hear a WOMPH WOMPH WOMPH sound?) are unbearable.

* Restaurant buzzers, alarms, etc. Even the alarms coming from inside McDonalds while I'm in the drive through make me uncomfortable/

* Anything shrilly, no matter the decibel.

Sounds that are lower pitch, and continuous are much easier to get used to.
The AC kicking on is uncomfortable, but after ~30 seconds the fan noise
doesn't bother me.

For me public places have an "ambient sound" that seems to get filtered out
okay. Mostly only the occasional small child skrill bothers me. I also have
social anxiety so I'll get uncomfortable anyway however.

\----

This seems to align with your observation that bowling alleys/swimming pools
being okay. Most of the sounds are lower pitch, continuous, and most of the
sudden noises are expected (kids splashing, bowling ball rolling, etc.)

The biggest difference is the decibel level though. Hand dryers. Leaf blowers.
Hair dryers. Hoovers, are all LOUD.

Imagine your parents SCREAMING AS LOUD AS THEY CAN AT YOU. That's how those
feel.

\---

I have a feeling my observations will apply to most people on the spectrum,
but you'd have to multiply it by 10x/100x depending on the severity of the
individual.

------
CriticalCathed
It's clear to me that whatever costs savings there are in using these electric
dryers is not worth it considering A) they aren't even sanitary which defeats
their entire purpose and B) they are dangerous to childrens ears.

We really should just mandate that public restrooms use Cloth Roll Towel
Systems for hand drying. It's economical in the long run, not a giant waste of
resources, and it is proven to be more sanitary than paper hand towels!

~~~
Cd00d
I like the paper towel because I then have something to cleanly open the door
with too.

------
bryanlarsen
My daughter is deaf in one ear, so cannot localize sound nor can she sense
distance. There are two things that absolutely terrorize her: fireworks and
air dryers.

------
ohazi
The Dyson airblade is the fucking worst. In addition to apparently being one
of the louder ones, it's also one of the most unhygienic. It blows the germs
off of your hands and onto your face. You should avoid them like the actual
plague.

~~~
nelsonic
There is no need for cursing on HN. Yes, the older models of Dyson Airblade
were noisy, but they have addressed this in the latest model Dyson Airblade V
HU02 which is significantly quieter.

Also, why are germs on your hands _after_ washing them? Surely you used soap
which killed 99.9% of germs and given that the Dyson Airblade V blows air
downward, you would need to contort yourself to put your face _below_ your
hands ...

~~~
whatamidoingyo
You seem a little too upset because someone used a bad word.

~~~
Jaruzel
No, we try to maintain better standards of dialogue here, and there is rarely
a need to curse unless it's a quote from someone/something else.

~~~
switch007
I checked the guidelines and there is nothing against swearing or "standards
of dialogue". FWIW swearing is within my standards of dialogue.

~~~
martin_a
This seems to be a funny problem among some people, which also censor and beep
each swear word in videos on YouTube or anywhere else. Seems to be some
anticipatory obedience that is deeply embedded in some cultures/people.

------
vbuwivbiu
Sadly it's because manufacturers deliberately make them loud to make it seem
like they're doing their job more. It's the same with many garden tools.
Lawnmowers, leaf blowers and hedge trimmers can be made very quiet but they're
deliberately made loud to make it feel like they're doing their job more.

~~~
distances
I have very hard time to believe this. It can't be helpful to drive people
away -- at least I don't use any hard driers anymore because of their noise
levels.

~~~
vbuwivbiu
I'd love for it not to be true and it's not like I have any proof

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lquist
Yes! This is so awesome to see! And it has nothing to do with the researcher
being 13. We are constantly bombarded with loud noises (don't get me started
on motorcycles and construction noise) that do long-term damage to our ears. I
hope that one day we can regulate these noises in public spaces. Today it
starts with study.

~~~
trophycase
Don't even get me started on leaf blowers and lawn edgers for totally
unnecessary landscaping

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jamesu
Occasionally I'll check on how loud something is with my smartphone, and i'm
always amazed at how loud some everyday things can get... especially when you
factor in enclosed spaces.

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jedberg
So if I'm interpreting this right, solution 1, use towels for your kids if you
can and solution 2, if there are no towels, hold your kid up and away so they
are above the exit point of the air.

~~~
em-bee
i just let my hands dry naturally, and teach kids to do the same. as long as
it's not freezing cold outside they will dry soon enough. it's the most
environmental friendly too.

~~~
daveFNbuck
So you're the guy who gets the bathroom door handle wet, causing me to use
twice the resources to wash my hands again, plus extra paper towels if
available to dry off the handle.

~~~
em-bee
nope, see my other replies, not touching the door handle with wet hands. if
there is no way to get out without touching the handle i'll dry off first. i
just won't if i know i can get away with out touching anything for a while

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tr33house
This was actually very "eye opening." I too used to be very sensitive to
dryers in general but had since forgotten how painful they can be

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tshanmu
This is so heartening to read about - and its easy to get started - May be I
can 'encourage' my child to do a replication study :)

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Karliss
How valid is it to make a sound measurement in direct flow of air? I am not
surprised that blowing air directly in to sound measurement device causes high
reading, but is the tool designed for that. Isn't it the same as saying that
pressure washer causes x decibels of noise when directed in to ear? Both will
probably be damaging or unpleasant.

~~~
fwip
She measured sound levels at the ear, not in the airflow. She specifically
mentions children being shorter and likely to stand closer to the noise
source, and so made readings at multiple distances.

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Spacemolte
Interesting, I have actually noticed that some hand dryers are uncomfortably
loud, especially the "special" high powered ones. Combine that with the
struggle trying to activate the dryer, and keeping it activated while trying
NOT to touch the surfaces, I can understand why some kids seemingly does not
like them.

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9anomaly
I've been avoiding hand dryers for years now. Mostly it's because a germaphobe
friend pointed out years ago that germs are being blown onto your hand.

But after reading this I think my subconscious hates the noise it makes on my
over-sensitive hearing.

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Symbiote
The paper she published is at
[https://doi.org/10.1093/pch/pxz046](https://doi.org/10.1093/pch/pxz046)

It's behind a paywall, but Sci-Hub works very nicely with a DOI…

~~~
Tempest1981
Wow: "Several Dyson Airblade models were also very loud, including the single
loudest measurement of 121 dBA"

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JabavuAdams
I damaged my right ear-drum on a short-haul flight 20 years ago. I find hand-
dryers almost painfully loud, and they rattle that ear-drum in an unpleasant
way. Have often thought of doing dB measurements. Way to go, kid!

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EamonnMR
I can't stand anything past about 80db and I absolutely hate these things.
Worst part is that there's no way to turn them off once they've been
activated.

~~~
code_duck
I would never consider using one of these. The annoying thing is when someone
else walks into the bathroom and turns it on. Same for the disturbing, toxic –
scented hand soap that is found in most bathrooms.

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ggm
Paper towels every time

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microcolonel
I regularly wear hearing protection when I visit the bigger city, and when I'm
on public transit; even as an adult.

~~~
marapuru
Out of interest, do you have a high sensitivity to noise around you?

I don't live in a particularly big city and when I visit bigger ones I do feel
they are noisy. But not noisy enough to wear protection. I do wear protection
when I'm on my motorcycle or at a concert or festival.

~~~
microcolonel
I can get by without protection, and it's not as though it particularly hurts;
but I prefer things quieter, and it improves my mood. I often also wear it
when I am working in an office environment with loud HVAC, also improves my
mood.

I don't really know what would qualify as high sensitivity.

~~~
Raphmedia
I also wear earplugs and they do improve my mood and ability to stay focused.

I remember that my father did the same when I was a kid. At that point I
laughed, now I understand. I'm guessing sensitive ears run in the family.

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debt
Good on her for staying focused on the problem.

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deepsun
110 dB is 10 times louder than 100 dB.

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thedudeabides5
where's the data?

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quickthrower2
The highest decibel things my kids are exposed to is themselves.

~~~
jerf
I have loud children, but they don't actually reach 110dB. I mean, YMMV, but
I'd notice if there was something literally as loud as a rock concern in my
basement or backyard.

~~~
hunter2_
Sure they do. I did a quick search and 110-130dB comes up on every result.

It's all about where you measure from, due to the inverse square law. For
measuring things such as speakers for product specs, the standard is to
measure from one meter away. But for rock concerts and hand dryers, you
measure from the typical listening position.

I think you are considering your typical listening position for your child
differently from the search results I found. If you were giving your kid a
kiss goodnight and they screamed, it would be louder than if you were in the
audience of a rock concert (but not louder than if you were kissing the
concert speakers).

Every time you double the distance between the source and the meter, the meter
reads 6dB lower.

~~~
klodolph
Minor factoid: While that’s true in the limiting case (far away) for rock
concerts, it’s common to use line arrays which fall -3 dB when you double your
distance, as long as you’re within a certain range. Within this range they
follow inverse rather than inverse square.

~~~
dmoy
Is that a similar effect to antenna arrays?

~~~
Cerium
It is most similar to the effect of electrostatic charges. The effect of a
point charge is the inverse square of distance, the effect of a line charge is
the inverse of distance, and the effect of an infinite plane has no relation
to distance.

~~~
dmoy
Ok thanks that is a useful mental model

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KennyFromIT
I hate clickbait titles like this where there is no current age listed for
comparison to the age referenced. Is the student 18 or 9.5? The time scale
matters.

This reminds me of how Apple notoriously omits axis values during
presentations just to make prettier-looking graphs.

~~~
qntty
> And the researcher, _13-year-old Nora Keegan_ , has been studying the issue
> since she was nine years old.

