
Google Chromebook Under $300 Defies PC Market With Growth - Lightning
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-10/google-chromebook-under-300-defies-pc-market-with-growth.html
======
Glyptodon
Chromebooks are the only small, portable, sub $500 PCs that don't completely
suck. No wonder they sell. Everyone else is trying to charge $800+ even though
laptops are perceived as something that should be cheap because they have a
high risk of being stolen, getting damaged, or quickly going obsolete. It's
like Google understood what the Netbook wanted to be, while everyone else
dreamed of being Apple (without the least bit of ability to actually be
Apple).

~~~
kunai
I beg to differ. [http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-X201E-DH01-11-6-Inch-Laptop-
Black...](http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-X201E-DH01-11-6-Inch-Laptop-
Black/dp/B009F1I16K%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-z-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB009F1I16K)

With Haswell, the Asus could really hit it big. Ubuntu, I strongly think, has
its future as the sort of super-Chromebook. More advanced, but still
manageable.

~~~
bitL
I have one of these since February and it's far better than any Chromebook -
x64, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, extremely portable, and runs Ubuntu 12.04 LTS by
default. No weird ChromeOS limitations, no push to cloud storage by all means
etc. Just the keyboard could be better...

~~~
graue
How is it for speed? On my old low-end Dell netbook and desktop, I would get
frustrated every time I did an "apt-get upgrade" or install as I waited what
seemed like 10-15 seconds just for the "Reading package lists..." step to
complete. On my MacBook Air this step is instant, which I attribute mostly to
the SSD. I'm suspicious of regular hard drives now (though on the flip side I
now only have a tiny amount of space).

~~~
bitL
Both CPU and HDD are bottlenecks, it's not a speed king. HDD is a regular
5400rpm one, the Celeron 847 1.1GHz is also rather slow. I used it for some
Java + Scala compiling and it took significantly longer than on MBP (10 vs 2
minutes). Also, I was able to run FL Studio under Wine and it was capable of
recording my MIDI playing in realtime for arpeggiated sounds, though it had
problems with 4+ simultaneous channels. Keyboard is really bad. Otherwise for
the price it's currently unbeatable in my opinion. For my purposes a large HDD
was more important as I make a lot of photos and hence need a lot of storage.
I use it while traveling in "less safe" countries, such as those in Latin
America - I don't really care about losing it.

------
mtgx
I don't know how much it's in sales, but for what it's worth the Samsung ARM
Chromebook has been the #1 bestselling laptop on Amazon for almost 9 months
straight, since it came out last fall (I know because I've looked every now
and then, and it's always been #1):

[http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Laptop-
Comput...](http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Laptop-
Computers/zgbs/electronics/565108/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_2_541966)

But I don't agree with the last paragraph that Chromebooks are ready to go to
higher-end. At least for the next few years, Chromebooks should stay sub-$500,
with most of them being ARM-based and sub-$300, but with a bigger battery
(even more important than upgrading the resolution, I'd say).

They last about 6-7 hours, but they have an embarrassingly small battery
(about as big as the ones in 7" tablets). Double the battery size, keep the
ARM processor up to date and the price under $300, and that should be the
strategy going forward for the next few years for Chromebooks.

~~~
jsnell
You've made this incorrect claim about battery size a bunch of times here, and
I've corrected you a bunch of times. At this point I'm starting to think that
you aren't just genuinely mistaken, but have some kind of agenda. (Even if I
can't figure out what it could be).

So for the Nth time, the ARM ChromeBook has a 30Wh battery. The Nexus 7 has a
16Wh battery. This is not "about the same", it's a factor of 2 difference.

What would be about the same is the 2012 MacBook Air (35Wh) -- a device that
incidentally has almost the same form factor as the ChromeBook.

Now, Apple did manage to inch it up to 38 Wh in the latest release. Maybe
Samsung will be able to do get similar relative improvements. But if you're
genuinely suggesting that a low-end machine 11" super-thin laptop could have a
60Wh battery... Well, I just don't know what to say.

------
eliben
It's hard to over-estimate the convenience of a laptop you never fear losing,
breaking or seeing die some horrible way. Just take another Chromebook, login,
possibly wait a minute for all your apps to sync (if you use large apps) and
viola - welcome back to your computer. Viruses? hah.

And all that for half the price of an iPad.

 _This_ is the laptop parents can give kids and folks can give their elderly
parents without worrying about spending too much time fixing it and removing
viruses.

~~~
jmduke
I think the Chromebook paradigm is going to take some time to catch on, but
once it does it's going to be _terrific_ for everyone. I can't wait til it
spreads to other platforms (namely smartphones and gaming consoles) as well.

"Hey, my phone's out of battery. Can I check my texts on yours real quick?"

~~~
jiggy2011
Yep, ubiquitous laptops with centralised control from a single entity and fine
grained tracking built right in. This is _terrific_ for everyone!

~~~
VikingCoder
A) many people use Crouton, so there's no centralized control AT ALL. Even if
they don't, the only centralized control is over what version of Chrome you're
running, and OPTIONALLY whether you're allowed to log in to the device, what
your preferences were, and what windows you have open.

B) there's no fine-grained tracking built right in. Extraordinary claims
require extraordinary proof. You have the source code to Chromium available to
you, please provide evidence. If you believe the visible source code was
augmented to add tracking, prior to being installed on the device, then it
should be relatively easy to show a Wireshark log demonstrating the fine-
grained tracking you speak of.

~~~
jiggy2011
If you're just going to install a Linux distro doesn't that defeat the point?

I thought the whole idea of chromebook was that you used google services
rather than locally installed apps. So yes, inherently more tracking since
they want to monetise ads.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If you're just going to install a Linux distro doesn't that defeat the
> point?

It doesn't defeat the point for the _buyer_ , since its often the most cost-
effective way to get basic hardware for a linux laptop.

It doesn't defeat the point for the hardware vendor.

Heck, it doesn't really even defeat the point for Google. Sure, it may not be
_as good_ for them as you using ChromeOS, but its better for them than you
either using Windows or MacOS (or _paying_ for Windows or MacOS to get a Linux
box.)

~~~
jiggy2011
The intended method of use is Chrome OS, there will be geeks who buy it as a
cheap Linux laptop but that's not really the target market or how they are
mostly used.

------
VLM
chromebooks own 25% of the market under $300. OK. So who's the 75% they're
eating into, I know thats not apple. Go to amazon, and its ... nothing. There
doesn't appear to be a sub $300 laptop market other than chromebooks?

Unless they're really twisting definitions and calling a $186 ipod touch a
"laptop under $300 that isn't a chromebook"

I might have missed it in the article.

~~~
michaelt
Netbooks like [1] perhaps?

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AOD270-1375-Netbook-Processor-
Esp...](http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AOD270-1375-Netbook-Processor-
Espresso/dp/B007582KGM/)

~~~
VLM
Could be, but then instead of writing "Chromebooks have in just the past eight
months snagged 20 percent to 25 percent of the U.S. market for laptops that
cost less than $300, according to NPD Group Inc." they would have used the
word netbook, or "electronic device" or something like that.

There is a marketing problem in that I have a nexus 7 tablet and a bluetooth
keyboard. What's the marketing message differentiating my nexus 7 from a
chromebook, other than the screen is a wee bit bigger on the chromebook and
the apps on the nexus 7 almost perfectly match the apps on my phone? There
doesn't appear to be a marketing message differentiating them.

------
bdcravens
At my local Best Buy, they're always sold out. A few times I've overheard
conversations of folks checking it out. They just want a cheap laptop, and you
hear the usual questions: "Can I hook up my scanner?" "Will it run Call of
Duty?" "Can I sync my iPhone?"

I think it's a great device, and I'll likely buy 1 or 2 or a few. However, I
don't think that the marketing communicates what it really is, and folks are
getting burned as a result.

I wonder, when sales performance is reported, is this gross sales, or net
after returns?

~~~
fishtoaster
I bought one at bestbuy last week (as I was about to leave on a trip), and I
definitely got the impression that most buyers didn't know what they were
getting into. Several salespeople double-checked that I knew this was not a
"normal laptop." One guy said they'd been getting a lot of returns from people
not knowing what "chromebook" entails.

------
uslic001
My two best buys in the past year were a 200 dollar new chromebook for my
oldest daughter and a 375 dollar new ASUS 11.6 inch touchscreen Windows 8
laptop. The Chromebook is the only computer in our house that has never
crashed and never had a virus/malware problem. The ASUS Vivobook has worked
great and I enjoy Windows 8 on the touchscreen. I hardly ever use my Ipad 3
anymore. I will never waste money on an Apple product again as I get a much
better bang for my buck with the alternatives on the market now.

------
vinkelhake
I happened to get a Chromebook for free some time ago. At first I didn't think
I'd have much use for it. At the time I did much of my casual browsing on a
tablet. For "serious" stuff I had laptops.

I've found that it has displaced the tablet for most casual browsing. I think
the main reasons is that while it's slow, it's still faster than a tablet.
Having a real keyboard is very nice. It also works well as an SSH terminal.

------
morgante
I don't think this really speaks to any growth in that market sector. Rather,
Google is just taking over the low-end sector with software which matches the
abysmal hardware.

Basically we're looking at the bifurcation of the market. People who can
afford it have Apple devices and everyone else will end up with Google
products subsidized by advertising dollars.

~~~
rednukleus
You speak as though Windows and Linux dont exist. Over 90% of the market use
those operating systems. Did I misinterpret your comment, or do you really
live in that much of a bubble?

------
Roboprog
At $200, it makes a nice second laptop that you aren't afraid to break/lose.
It won't replace your "real" computer, but it's a better size for
reading/writing email than a smart phone.

------
mdm_
I think the Chromebook looks interesting, but in Canada the major selling
point (price) is moot. Right now on Amazon.ca the cheapest Chromebook is $399,
while in the $349-379 range I can choose from several makes and models of
fully-functional 15" laptops.

------
saturdaysaint
Yeah, they're my default PC recommendation these days for non-power users.
Enough power for web/e-mail/streaming video, 6 hours of battery life, great
form factor, and build quality that's shockingly better than just about any PC
I've used before this year. I'd certainly recommend them to anyone looking for
a second PC. My girlfriend and I have one in our living room sitting next to
our more capable Macbook Air and I have little urge to upgrade to 2 high end
systems.

------
antitrust
Consumers know the pattern: over time, technology gets cheaper.

Laptops and desktops are not selling well because, at the same time there have
been no huge leaps in actually useful technology, manufacturers are trying to
upsell us toward fancier machines that don't actually help us do anything.

At this point, a regular laptop should cost as much as a cell phone and be
about as efficient. Instead, we're getting $1400 "ultra-books" that aren't so
ultra that anyone actually needs one.

~~~
evilduck
An unsubsidized smartphone is often _more_ expensive than a budget to midrange
laptop.

------
zmmmmm
> The devices had about 4 percent to 5 percent

> share in the first quarter

That is really quite stunning in the context of the whole laptop market. I am
kind of intrigued at how Google is pulling this off. There are so many good
arguments against a Chromebook for most people. You can buy an ordinary laptop
for similar price and just run Chrome and get the same thing but with more
features. Even without that, this seems to violate the law that a new entrant
into a market has to be not just better but _compellingly_ better to get
market share.

How is Google doing it? Are they going direct to pitch these to bulk buyers
like academic, students, businesses, governments? Or are "normal" consumers
actually wandering into Best Buy and choosing it over the Windows laptop right
next to it?

~~~
kunai
> How is Google doing it

A bit of both approaches, to be honest. People used to argue that OS X is the
far better OS because of its dead simplicity, but that's falling flat on its
face now that Chromebooks have arrived. No malware PERIOD -- no code can
execute without some sort of complicated exploit, and if that wasn't enough,
Linux runs at its base, which adds an extra layer of security.

The beauty of the Chromebook is its simplicity, and extensibility. It's
practically a $249 Linux box for the power users -- load up crouton and off
you go. For the consumers who never need to touch the Linux layer, they can
use the top layer without ever seeing Linux, and enjoy computing nirvana.

Once NaCl is mature enough that most developers use it and once the Web Store
populates with offline apps, watch this start to take off. It will ride on the
same merits that drove OS X for over a decade, but it will fly higher.

Just you wait. This is the final redemption for desktop Linux.

------
habosa
I have said it many times on HN and I'll say it again: I LOVE my Samsung ARM
Chromebook. I'll just quote my previous comments:

It's $250 so there's no argument about buying X or Y netbook instead, you can
barely get anything with a keyboard that browses the internet for that price.
Also for that price you get 2 (3?) years of 100GB on Google Drive and 12 Gogo
WiFi passes, which together are already worth over $250. So you can throw the
device in the trash and still come out on top.

Now to the computer itself:

First, the battery life is awesome, 6.5 hours of solid use (WiFi model) and
since it turns on from cold in ~7 seconds you can turn it off between sessions
and not lose any power at all. If that's too long for you just close the lid,
you'll lose about 1% per hour but everything resumes instantly when you open
it (and I do mean INSTANTLY).

Second, the hardware is really excellent for the price. The keyboard is my
favorite laptop keyboard out there (even against my MBP) and the trackpad is
second only to Apple devices imo. It's the same weight/size as a MacBook Air
but maybe 0.2" thicker. The only hardware downsides are the plastic chassis
and the screen's somewhat bad viewing angles.

Third, it runs most of what you need right out of the box. I don't even have
my in developer mode, you don't need that to use Google's Secure Shell and
Remote Desktop Chrome extensions. It has an Offline version of Google Drive so
you can keep your most important documents local and everything syncs when
you're connected.

Fourth, it's stress-free. Because everything is synchronized to the cloud and
the hardware is so cheap, you never have to worry about this thing. If it
breaks (which it won't easily), just go to your nearest Best Buy, drop $250,
and sign in with you Google account and you'll be back exactly where you left
off (even down to the tabs you had open). I really can't recommend this device
more highly. It's definitely not the right device for full-time development
but as a companion to a larger laptop or a desktop it's a perfect second
machine and much more useful than an iPad or Transformer-style tablet (I've
had both).

------
nzealand
Almost the perfect computer for Grandma.... except still no skype.

~~~
chinpokomon
I've haven't missed Skype yet. Voice calling in Gmail works perfectly for me
on my Pixel. If I need Skype, I can use it on my phone. As an absolutely worst
case scenario, I can use Skype through Crouton.

------
soundoflight
The article doesn't seem to mention if this is cutting into the netbook/cheap
pc market or if it is actual growth in this type of laptop.

Anyone have any ideas on this?

------
gwu78
Let's say the user just wants the hardware and form factor. Can the user dd
over ChromeOS and use their own bootloader and open source OS? Are these
netbooks "remote controlled" by Google at such a low level that the user
cannot "opt out"?

~~~
chinpokomon
You can install a dev bootloader, but the way it initializes the system is
different than what you may be familiar with

~~~
gwu78
Any pointers to read more about this?

FWIW, I'm familiar with BSD bootloaders. I can follow the Linux boot process,
but haven't invested much time in mastering it.

------
metaprinter
I bought the acer chromebook for my 5yo. He loves it for playing Lego games,
watching YouTube and Kahn Academy vids, as well as using code academy and
getting emails from gamgam.

I borrow it for business trips and works well enough. Best laptop I ever
bought.

~~~
tmzt
Is he playing Lego games in Chrome OS or are you running a different system on
it?

------
abdophoto
Do you guys feel that this suggests that computers will require less local
storage and depend mostly on the cloud as we move forward?

~~~
awaghadashish
they might still have local storage, but depending on the cloud's a no brainer
IMO The main issue here is can people do without native apps and only a
browser. I think a lot will change when we have programming IDEs and Photoshop
inside a browser.

~~~
chinpokomon
I agree. I haven't found all my desktop equivalent apps yet, but I miss them
less and less with each passing day.

------
mmgutz
Not sure why this is a surprise. Have we all forgotten how popular netbooks
were? The Chromebook is a better netbook.

------
jvandonsel
Two kids. Two chromebooks, plus a web proxy server I can centrally whitelist
(squid). Great combination.

------
awaghadashish
Just put Xcode in a browser and I am all for Chromebooks and I am sure it will
happen one day!

------
agent123
Doesn't it concern anyone that this is a computer on which _absolutely
nothing_ is private?

~~~
kryten
Make it cheap and no one will care any more. Make it shiny and the tech
pundits will slobber all over it.

It concerns me for reference.

The device is dangerous to say the least.

I wish Stallman would write about them as people might start paying attention
to those of us who can see what is coming.

------
AsymetricCom
Remember when netbooks were a thing, but the industry crushed them because
there was no profit margin?

------
kryten
Sorry but Chromebooks are a crap prospect for 99% of people and after about a
week, any consumer will realise that.

That happens post-sale which means the sales figures are good.

They are lured in by the price and get screwed. That's all this shows.

Crap netbooks, no-brand PC accessories and appliances, landfill Androids and
supermarket bubble-packed electronics fill the same market sector.

Edit: I stand by my comment :)

~~~
Zikes
I'm sure the massive rate of returns and refunds will prove you right.

~~~
tharrold
An anecdote from [http://thecartoons.net/2013/06/24/why-i-didnt-buy-a-
samsung-...](http://thecartoons.net/2013/06/24/why-i-didnt-buy-a-samsung-
chromebook-yet/)

>I asked a couple different Best Buy reps if the Chromebooks had a big return
rate. "All the time," both said frankly. "They return it in a couple of days.
They don't know how it works."

~~~
Zikes
I'm sure that's true, however my own anecdotal experience with Best Buy is
that they can't or don't properly educate consumers as to the right thing to
buy in the first place.

