

Ask HN: Zillow is trying to acquire my app + domain for "a couple hundred bucks", advice? - auston

So, I might get razzed for this - but I figured I'd come to a place where I would receive useful insight on my situation.<p><i></i><i>Dilemna</i><i></i><p>Zillow wants to buy the domain that a website (optimized for iPhone which uses their API) I've created resides on for literally "a couple hundred bucks".<p>This seems like an easy way to take advantage of the work I've put in to building the domain/ranking.<p>Additionally, they've threatened to cut of API access if I do not comply with their wishes.<p><i></i><i>Data</i><i></i><p>It's located at http://izillow.net<p>Since launch the site has received ~50,000 visitors + links from techcrunch, apple, google (appengine) and numerous blogs + recognition in the New York Times.<p>(also ~90k pageviews)<p>It's in compliance with Zillow's TOS &#38; they've threatened to cut of API access if I do not comply with their wishes.<p><i></i><i>History</i><i></i><p>Last year in May I created an iPhone interface for Zillow's "zestimator" - it was all fun and games, got a little bit of blog coverage/mentions &#38; an overall good response. Zillow seemed to be all for it.<p>Then the New York Times included it in one of it's articles - and Zillow asked me to very simply put the words "unofficial version" and a link at the bottom of the app.<p>No problem. Done.<p><i></i><i>Now</i><i></i><p>Zillow has launched their own iPhone app (which rocks) - but wants me to take down mine and hand over the domain for "a couple hundred bucks".<p>I dont feel this is fair and they're trying to stiff me with a measely $250. What would you do? What do you suggest? What are your thoughts?
======
lbrandy
Disclaimer: Please don't take my (or anyone's) advice at face value without
spending some serious time considering the best option for you.

I can't help but think there's something you aren't telling us, otherwise
they've made a colossal error.

Let's look at your absolute worst case scenario. They cut off your API, put
you completely out business, and end your app. Let's look at what they are
offering you: $250. The worst case scenario + $250. What, exactly, do you have
to lose, by rejecting their offer? $250. Put another way: nothing. Absolutely,
nothing.

What is their worst case scenario? That you, oh I don't know, post around to
bunch of places like Hacker News that they basically strong-armed you mafia
style to shut down. Word spreads through dev circles that they are basically
screwing their devs and abusing the trust of the dev community. They have to
do all kinds of PR damage control.

The entire point of an open API is to attract devs to help spread your brand.
If they want to turn around and start screwing the very people who help them,
they'll find that dev pool dry very, very quickly.

In other words, the position they've put you in, you have virtually nothing to
lose, and they have quite a bit. I'd respond accordingly. Save all their
emails. Start working on the "zillow.com screws devs" website. Name your
price, and tell them for both your sake, they should accept.

~~~
Retric
Worst case for zillow:

 _Since launch the site has received ~50,000 visitors + links from techcrunch,
apple, google (appengine) and numerous blogs + recognition in the New York
Times._

They let a well known company uses izillow for a while so they may have lost
their trade mark by failing to defend it.

PS: It's a huge risk for company's to let others use their brands without
defending them. They can get him to change the name or license the use of
iZillow, but doing nothing is a really bad idea for them.

~~~
enjo
Since they where in contact with the app author and asked him to make a remedy
to the issue (tagging it with 'unofficial version') they have effectively
defended the trademark. Defense of trademark doesn't mean you have to prevent
others from using it, but rather that you have to show that you are taking
steps to control it to prevent it from running into the general venacular.

Also to lose the trademark your going to have to show that it's become a
common synonym for a particular category (think Kleenex instead of tissue).
Zillow is a LONG ways from that.

------
akikuchi
Write them a thoughtful, well-reasoned letter explaining:

1\. How as an active member of he developer community, you have enjoyed
building useful tools which expand the reach of the Zillow brand.

2\. How you have dedicated significant time and energy to this project, on the
understanding that they provided the API to encourage enterprising and curious
developers such as yourself to find new valuable ways to interact with Zillow.

3\. You are a reasonable person, and would be willing to sell the domain for a
reasonable amount.

4\. What you think is a reasonable amount, and some simple
calculations/reasoning supporting this number.

You might even say that you were surprised by the small sum the initially
offered, but with the information given I don't think there's any reason to be
too offended-they probably just threw something out there to see if it worked.
I also think it's quite early to start talking about negative pr campaigns
etc. as others are suggesting. That won't get you any extra money, which as I
understand it is your goal at this point.

edit- to suggest maybe including something from their "about us" section to
describe what you were doing; trying to "help consumers by giving them access"
to information.

Also to note, while their tactics aren't particularly subtle or magnanimous, I
do believe in giving some benefit of the doubt- especially until after you've
seen their response to your thoughtful response.

edit2- in 1.) above, you probably don't want to say you're expanding the
"zillow brand"- no reason to help their IP/trademark position. just say
something similarly pleasant sounding.

~~~
jyothi
I somehow feel this wouldn't work in negotiations especially when the other
side is not playing fair. When they offered as low as $250 it tells they are
playing it mean. All this nice idealistic talk is not going to move a blade.

I would suggest don't work on their sympathy or expect them to value your
efforts. They will not. Be ready to lose the meagre amount and play it hard.
If you lose, make sure it costs something for them to fix their bargain of
$250.

~~~
akikuchi
The reasonable letter is not intended to win sympathy, nor does it cut off
other options. If they maintain a firm, unreasonable position, OP's options
are still open and he can intensify the conversation. Starting with a
thoughtful explanation of his side of the story is evidence of a good-faith
effort to work out a solution, which improves his position if other parties
get involved (e.g. lawyers, the internet).

Worst case: you're back where you started, but have demonstrated for the
record that you were prepared to work together to find a sensible solution.

Best case: you've kept things civil, and come to an agreement without any
inflaming the situation further.

------
drewmeyers
Drew from zillow. I've been in contact with Mr Bunson about this issue. I
don’t think that it’s appropriate to discuss our conversation in public,
however, I will say that what is described here is not a complete
representation of the conversation. He’s welcome to continue to use the API as
long as he doesn’t infringe upon our trademark and use our brand name "Zillow"
on his website.

~~~
pclark
why do you care about him infringing on your brand? He's helping you guys out.

~~~
pistoriusp
The users of "izillow" might not understand that "izillow" is not affiliated
with zillow itself. It has the potential to damage their brand.

~~~
badger7
There are people out there who will read "unofficial version" and still not
know that it's not official. Those people will not be any more clued in just
because it has a different name - if it looks/works like zillow, it is zillow.
Targetting this level of understanding is futile.

~~~
icey
I went and looked at it, and I would have probably assumed it was affiliated
with Zillow if I hadn't read this posting first.

------
davidg
Hi, it's David G from Zillow.com,

Auston,

I hope to speak with you about this later today but please update this post
and correct the facts here. You have misrepresented your communications with
Zillow. I have the e-mail on this; you asked for $250 for the domain. That was
not Zillow's offer, it was yours! When Zillow accepted your offer, you
rescinded it. Those are the facts.

I look forward to resolving this ASAP - please let Drew know when you are
available to take a call on this. As others here have pointed out, we simply
cannot allow you to misuse our trademark but you are welcome to continue to
host the site.

~~~
auston
This is accurate.

Surely, I opened my mouth too early, you offered "a couple hundred bucks" - I
said $250 would be sufficient, I clicked "send" and then thought - "Oh crap!
wait... a minute..." and followed up telling you $250 is unreasonable.

~~~
wehriam
So you offered to sell them the domain for $250 and they accepted your offer.
I feel like you're not telling us the whole story, and "they're trying to
stiff me" doesn't seem accurate at all.

~~~
invisible
They offered a couple hundred bucks and he thought fine, $250. Then he
realized the pagerank, publicity, link backs, and worth of the domain far
exceeded $250 after he sent the message. That's probably what he isn't telling
us.

------
noonespecial
As someone who did the trademark dance let me add this. If you deny their
offer and try to keep running your site, it will be trivial for them to file a
complaint with ICANN and simply confiscate your domain name because of the
trademark.

-BUT-

If you immediately switch over to doing something legitimate with that domain,
you can keep it indefinitely and there is little they can do about it.
Fortunately a criticism/parody site qualifies. I'd be more than ready to turn
it into a "zillow screws devs" site.

Personally, I'd counter with a $12,500 offer and hope to settle for around
$9500. That really is nothing to them. $250 is nothing but an insult. They
must think you're 12. Its just plain bad taste to pair that with a naked
threat.

I can't help but think of Monty Burns saying, _"hey there young pup, if you
give me that fine domain you've got there I'll give you a shiny nickel of your
very own!"_

~~~
checkwit
It will cost them around $2000 to file a UDRP complaint. They will most likely
win.

------
jdavid
* get a new domain name and

* 301 redirect all request to it FAST

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URL_redirection#HTTP_status_cod...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URL_redirection#HTTP_status_codes_3xx)

------
mdasen
So, they're definitely giving you the short end of the stick. It's unfair.
It's terrible. But there might be nothing you can do about it.

Most sites with an API have in their API agreement that they can cut you off
at anytime with or without reason. Zillow states:

 _Zillow.com may change, suspend or discontinue the Zillow API and suspend or
terminate your use of the Zillow API, Zillow Data, and/or Zillow Brand & Links
at any time for any reason, without notice._

They've decided that you were great when you were adding value to them, but
now you're a competitor and they're going to shut you down. This is the
unfortunate circumstance of relying on services that can change their terms at
any time.

I don't agree with the extent that RMS takes the free software argument all
the time, but when he talks about cloud computing, this is what he's talking
about. Providers are saying, "Don't worry. Leave everything to us. It will be
nice and you don't have to maintain anything." It also means that you have no
recourse when they decide to change their terms. You become beholden to them
and their good graces - sounds like a feudal relationship in a way. Cross your
lord and you'll live to regret it.

Really, the worst you can do to them is get them a lot of bad press. Maybe
that will swing the power to your side - "attention developers: zillow will
just cut you off from their API if they see you as competition." Might make
Zillow more amenable to paying you a little more. Lots of sites would jump on
publishing such a thing. The FSF or other FOSS advocates might write up stuff
as a "warning: don't let this happen to you" about cloud computing. Zillow,
I'm sure, would like to avoid their name in that mess - probably to the tune
of more money than they're offering now.

Just remember. Enemies threaten; friends warn. Be very nice with Zillow and
kinda casually mention that you think you might pitch TechCrunch on the idea
of a story about the situation - cutting off API access and all. Remember,
you're happy to sell and not mad at them, but that they might not come off
looking so nice in the press at $250.

~~~
deepakjois
<blockquote>Be very nice with Zillow and kinda casually mention that you think
you might pitch TechCrunch on the idea of a story about the situation -
cutting off API access and all. Remember, you're happy to sell and not mad at
them, but that they might not come off looking so nice in the press at
$250.</blockquote>

By posting everything about the situation on HN, isnt it possible that
somebody has already caught wind of the story :).

------
mixmax
It isn't. If they e-mailed you that they didn't have a problem with it and
their API is still accessible there's nothing they can do about it.

It's obvious that since they now have their own iphone app they want yours
down, or merged into theirs. You're basically a competitor. And they're trying
to buy you out. And their tactic seems fairly obvious: "let's see if we can
get the guy to hand ot over for a couple of hundred bucks, if it works fine if
it doesn't we'll have to get into real negotiations"

Now you've got to play the negotiation game...

Note: This is just my opinion, and it could of course easily be wrong.

~~~
TomOfTTB
You put the disclaimer at the end so I won't critcize but what you're giving
is bad advice. I quote from the Zillow API Terms of Use...

================================================

Acceptable Use. You agree not to use the Zillow API, Zillow Data, or Zillow
Brand & Links in any way that is unlawful, or harms Zillow.com, its service
providers, its suppliers, your end users, or any other person. Further,
pursuant to Section 10 below, Zillow.com may terminate your use of the Zillow
API, Zillow Data and Zillow Brand & Links if and when Zillow.com determines
that your use is inappropriate.

================================================

So there is something they can do. Blocking API calls is painfully easy and
they've outlined their right to ban anyone they consider to be doing harm to
them (which a competitor would clearly qualify as).

To Auston: I do agree that $250 is a really low bid and you might want to
engage in a little friendly negotiation but in doing so realize they don't
have to give you anything. So when choosing a tactic I'd avoid the hard
negotiation and instead try to "charm" more money out of them.

~~~
Kaizyn
Fair enough, but Zillow can't be the only company out there. I'd go looking
for a competitor of theirs and access the competing APIs if they cut off his
access to their service.

~~~
ericb
Zillow owns the trademark and can still take down his site legally, I believe.

~~~
DTrejo
Can he legally redirect to his new site?

------
rms
$250 is certainly a lowball but their registered trademark for Zillow gives
them almost infinite leverage. They can just take your domain if they want to.
The sweet spot price is just below what it will cost to sue you for trademark
infringement. I'd hope for $5k.

Also, www.izillow.net goes to a different site than izillow.net.

~~~
sgk284
The thing is, they let him use their site for a while. They even opened a line
of communication with him and requested that he include "Unofficial Version"
on the site. Their only communication to the poster should have been to stop
using their trademark. The fact that they endorsed the site and didn't protect
their trademark puts them in a bad spot if they try to leverage their
trademark in any way.

------
jenmarie
Don't sell -- certainly not for $250. What cheapskates. You probably know
Frink and Barton capitalized zillow with $57,000,000, part of their profits
off Expedia.com: if zillow is doing so swell, if you believe all the self-hype
you read on that blog, izillow is not only worth more, but Frink and Barton
can afford to pay you much, much more. I like the idea someone suggested of
"parody and criticism." That's not hard to do with zillow -- so easy and fun
to make a "comedy" out of all the bs they've pulled on homeowners and agents
alike since they've been running. A number of people have been working on a
future site called zillowclassaction.com, a data collection tool. We may
decorate the site with a Z upsidedown and backwards. There are sites like
zilo, I've been told, and no one has copyright on the letter "Z" -- to my mind
it still stands for that horseman who rides "out of the night, when the full
moon is bright" ... that bold renegade making ZZZZs with his blade, Z's that
stands for A LOT MORE than zillow. "Stand sure" on principle -- and give em
hell. Th

------
freikwcs
Tell them you want a job at Zillow for $150k/year. You win, and they don't
give in to your negotiations.

~~~
puppetsock
A full-time job? Sounds more like punishment than a prize. Mental freedom is
worth more than $150k/yr.

------
spitfire
You're in negotiations (They offered, didn't demand). Counter with an offer of
$X0,000. Divide and conquer from there.

~~~
lbrandy
Threatening to cut off his API access if he doesn't acquiesce sounds, to me,
more like "demand" than "offer".

To the OP: looking at the pulse of just this thread, don't underestimate the
size of the PR shit-storm they'd set off by strong-arming you out of the way.
Try to help them understand that.

~~~
spitfire
I'll correct my statement. They're in intense negotiations.

~~~
josefresco
Nice ... he should counter with an 'offer' to put suggestive pictures of not
so attractive females in his app. We all know how THAT goes over in the geek
community.

------
mdakin
Negotiate a better price. If you can't agree on a price and Zillow cuts you
off spread the word about that fact.

~~~
huhtenberg
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=588098>

~~~
mdakin
Tangurena/micks56 provide extremely useful tactical information. But that
information does not change my point. The objective is still to raise the $250
number. The strategy is still negotiation. Disclosure of bullying to the world
at large is still an available tool.

The trademark/cybersquatting issues increase complexity of that negotiation
moving it more towards the realm of a legal rather than a business
negotiation. Some additional legal research/advice is probably needed.

------
mingyeow
This is TERRIBLE UNETHICAL business practice

1) Determine a fair price 2) If they insist on being AS ridiculous like
cutting off YOUR API access... \- Prepare a Twitter / Blog campaign
(#zillowfail) \- Get the NYtimes reporter aware of this. They will listen to
you if your email subject is "Unethical, unfair behavior from Zillow" 3)
Negotiate further.

The HN hacker/Twitter community will help out. This is ridiculous

~~~
flipbrad
Oh come on - why seek to hurt/destroy a viable business in these dark days
just because you personally don't like how you're treated?

Determine a fair value for your work and negotiate. It's a shame they opened
with a low-ball offer backed by a threat (if this is truly how this all
unfolded), but be the bigger man here and forge some cooperation! Maybe then
they can learn a lesson about dealing with API devs without first seeing them
scared off by a personal vendetta campaign

~~~
sketerpot
All that scorched-earth stuff is a _backup_ plan, so the power in the
negotiations isn't completely one-sided. It's good to have leverage.

------
JeremyChase
So you are using their API for your app. I assume their TOS allows them the
ability to turn off service for you at their discretion.

If that is the case you don't have any legal recourse regarding the API. I
would certainly not give up the domain for chump change, and would look at a
different source for your data.

I would also look into any copyright issues, but selling for a small amount is
absolutely not worth it to you. I would hold onto it just out of principle at
this point.

~~~
jamesbritt
Others may be interested in buying the domain as well, now that it's known
that Zillow has their eyes on it.

Keep spreading that info around. Maybe the best offer will come from
elsewhere.

------
JohnCook
Very interesting discussion, so I followed up and asked Zillow for their
thoughts on the matter.

Here's what their spokeswoman just told me:

"He misused our trademark and we had to follow up. He's welcome to continue
using our API as long as he doesn't infringe upon our trademarks and use the
brand name Zillow. As per his post - it's not a complete representation of our
correspondence with him. This is about defending Zillow's trademark, nothing
else."

John Cook TechFlash

------
patrickg-zill
I would say that if they pursue a legal option it will cost them no less than
$5-10K. Thus your minimum price should be about $15K. If they cut you off,
figure out what competitor they might not want traffic to go to and set a
landing page to point to them.

I would suggest you talk to an actual lawyer and see if you can get them on
strong-arm tactics or anti-competitive practices.

------
ericb
What I would do is counter with some reasonable offer to show you're willing
to play ball for the reasons below.

IANAL but I seem to remember in my business law class that even if my last
name was "macdonald" in US courts I would have trouble keeping
"macdonalds.com" because of trademark issues. I imagine the same would be true
for izillow.com. On top of which, as other posters have mentioned, their Terms
of Service likely gives them the right to cut you off at any time. Your
leverage is low.

For them it is a business decision where they would rather avoid legal expense
and bad PR.

Keeping in mind that the lower of legal fees + PR damage or the dollar value
in harm your app does to their brand and sales sets the upper bound for what
they would likely pay.

If the site is getting about 2500 visitors a month, I would probably respond
mentioning how much work and time you put into it, and emphasizing that you
want to work with them on this, then ask for $4,000.

------
tolmasky
In my opinion the domain alone is easily worth a couple thousand dollars.

~~~
lacker
Since the domain is "izillow" and it's playing off your knowledge of zillow,
it seems like zillow could get the domain legally if they wanted to spend the
effort.

~~~
Kaizyn
Unless he puts something else up on the site. If they give him enough grief,
he could easily stop referring to the Zillow service and put up something
unrelated. Depending on how bad the negotiations go, the owner could be quite
creative in what he posts up on the site.

------
quellhorst
I'll give you $275.

~~~
thorax
$500.

Maybe we'll have an auction here in the comments? Of course, the later bids
will take longer to show up with the new reply rules.

At least the poster can tell them he has better offers.

------
numair
Change your brand name NOW and contact the media everywhere explaining what
has happened.

1\. You get tons of traffic. 2\. Lots of people know about you. 3\. Zillow's
competitors are now interested in acquiring you as well. 4\. Zillow is now in
a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation - exactly where you want
them.

If you need access to the Realtor.com guys, let me know.

~~~
auston
How can I get a hold of you?

------
sutro
Just be sure to bcc TechCrunch on all negotiation emails.

------
natch
Move the domain, and diversify to other data sources, but in doing so try to
keep your user base.

And, if you're really good, try to do it in such a way as to maintain friendly
relations with zillow. If that's possible. It would be tricky. Stalling
tactics are your friend, I would guess.

My gut feel would be, do not try to make money from a sale to them, if their
(TM) name is on your domain. Give them the domain free, AFTER you get your
users moved away. Take it down now and start redirecting people asap, because
they sure aren't going to do you the courtesy of doing that, even if you're on
good terms.

But... I'm just some random guy on HN. My advice is worth every penny you paid
for it.

------
physcab
I don't have experience with this, but I would say that if the site is
successful enough, hold out until they serve you with something real--either a
lawsuit or a more serious offer.

------
vaksel
Play hardball and counteroffer with a higher #. Worst case scenario they'll
try to take the domain by force, so you'll be out $250. Best case scenario,
you'll get a larger payout.

------
snprbob86
This is very interesting. Please follow up on this story when it comes to a
conclusion.

------
goodkarma
Take a look at trademarks for Zillow and derivatives: <http://bit.ly/jrJ8v>

Zillow could argue that your domain is confusingly similar and violates their
trademark. They are probably offering you a few hundred bucks because it would
cost more than that for them to send you a cease and desist.

Not sure how much you can squeeze out of them given this.

~~~
qeorge
I don't agree, but in most cases where its cheaper to pay for a domain then go
through the courts that magic number is around $3000.

------
moonchuck
I would just send them the link to this thread if I were you...

------
qeorge
Don't take it, $250 is peanuts. You're providing a valuable service for them,
and clearly they were aware of and encouraged it. I doubt they'd take you to
court, but I doubt they'd win anyways. There's no reason you can't own a
domain with their trademark in it, as long as there's no confusion that you
represent their company.

Call their bluff, let them cut off your API access. They'll lose customers,
you'll lose $250. Not even close.

All that aside, I still wouldn't sell it to them just based on principle. You
spent your time enhancing their product with their API, and they have the
audacity to try and bully you into taking this ridiculous offer.

FWIW, that's it for me ever using Zillow. I won't do business with a company
with such low ethical standards.

------
robk
You've done a good job building ranking but frankly the site is primarly just
a hook into their data and they can do as they please with it. In essence,
you're value is selling the SEO and traffic, which they would have arguably
have built themselves anyways. They do likely have a solid ICANN action
against you to take the domain since it incorporates their trademark and the
use is demonstrably a complementary function to their site.

I'd determine the actual _cost_ of time you put into the site and ask them,
nicely, to purchase it from you based on that (and the goodwill you've
generated for them by making the site available). Estimate, fairly, the cost
you've incurred and a fair amount for your hourly time efforts and counter
offer them that.

------
asimjalis
Here are some ideas:

1\. Use the publicity that this controversy generates to drive traffic to your
new site. Since you already have the software: you could set it up on a
different domain. Then as this story spreads use it to get page views to the
new domain. Publicity like this is the best thing that could happen to a small
site.

2\. Offer to sell Zillow your software. You can sell them the domain for $250
and then change them 10k or 100k for your software. Or could you customize
your software to suit some particular need that they had? As someone else
mentioned you could offer to work for them -- if they hire you they won't have
to wait till you ramped up on the API.

------
jaydub
It's an interesting scenario, as several people have pointed out: In one sense
they have supreme leverage in that they have power over the API etc. At the
same time, they have a reputation/brand to protect (damage to which could cost
a whole lot more than $250). They've clearly come on strong, adding the threat
of discontinuing your access to the API as a pressure cooker.

Ignoring the artificial pressure that they've added, what real incentive is
there to accept this deal straight off? $250 isn't a game-changer -- Zillow
knows that too. Fight for what you think it's worth.

~~~
natch
$250 is absolutely a game changer in another sense, though. They can use his
acceptance of payment to show that he is (arguably) making money off of their
trademark.

------
anigbrowl
IANAL...but fuck that. I assume your previous communication about the
'unofficial version' was in writing, at least by email. So legally, they don't
have a leg to stand on because they've already folded and accepted your right
to supplement their service with your little app. I(f they had strenuously
objected straight out of thegate that would be a different situation, but
they've already committed to a course of action and now they're backtracking.
You can show you dealt with them in good faith (I presume) so I think you're
quite safe with 'thanks, but no thanks'.

------
jenmarie
ps. Just saw something I DIDN't like: don't use their zillow logo on your
site: modify it -- make it the Z upsidedown and backwards if you like: that's
what I mean by "parody."

------
paulgb
This sucks, and I feel for you, but I think it is the risk you take when
building an app around someone else's API and trademark without establishing
an agreement with them first.

From other comments, it looks like they can legitimately cut off access to the
API and get the domain. All you really have going for you is that you can make
some noise about it, because if Zillow values their developer community they
need to demonstrate that they won't try to pull stuff like this.

------
boblol123
They have literally stolen your idea and are now trying to pretend you never
existed by stealing your identity, you're obviously worth a lot more than $250

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jaxn
I was just looking at your app earlier today as I was browsing AppEngine apps.
Lots of talk about the domain name and ICAAN, but there is no way they can
take izillow.appspot.com and Google is not likely to roll over easily.

Also, your app proved the business case for their iPhone app. I think that
makes the lowball offer even more offensive. I like #zillowfail

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amadiver
You're using their name in your URL. They're being nice by giving you a fair
price for the domain, and not sending lawyers after you.

~~~
peterbraden
$250 is not a fair price - for a domain and an app it's a kick in the teeth.

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paul9290
Well posting here is a good step and even better if high profile blogs/sites
picks this up. Such may force their hand and offer you a better deal.

Though looking at it from another perspective and the site's current rankings
on the web and you using their name in your app might not be much you can do.
You might want to consult with a IP lawyer!

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khangtoh
I think the general consensus here is to enter into a friendly negotiation.
First rule of Negotiation 101 is to not accept the first offer. So given your
history with them, state your grounds for why you feel your site deserves more
than just a "couple hundred" bucks.

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krschultz
If they have an open documented API and you are using it, then I would stand
your ground. What are those 90k pageviews worth to them? What are they worth
to you? I imagine they're worth more than a few hundred bucks to you.

How many hours have you put in?

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gaoshan
Without knowing the other side of the story, without getting into the
legalities or ethics of them cutting of API access like you say they are and
going only on what you've said I would refuse them... easy. $250 is an insult,
not an offer. Turn it down.

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seejay
Sounds like they are trying the cheapest way to get something they really
need. Don't even think about just handing it over to them without a fight. And
yes, selling it for "a couple hundred bucks" is worse than just handing it
over to them :P

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jimfl
The domain itself may be worth a couple hundred bucks, but your app and the
time you put into it is worth much more, so you're on solid footing
negotiating a better deal.

It would be a PR nightmare for them to just pull the plug on you.

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wehriam
If the domain is infringing on a trademark and the app is thus violating the
API's TOS, being able to walk away in a new pair of shoes might be a good
deal.

They aren't being heavy-handed, you just have no leverage.

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josefresco
Make a huge stink (email every top tech blogger), and use the publicity to
launch your new app (you do have something waiting in the wings don't you?)
and shame Zillow into spending more money to 'acquire' you.

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qaexl
This may not help you in the short term, however, I was recommended a great
book called "Secrets of Power Negotiating". The information contained in there
is useful beyond this specific dilemma you have.

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checkwit
Zillow does not need to go through the courts. They can just file a UDRP
complaint for $2000, and there is a very good chance that they will win. After
that they can just take your domain away.

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axod
How much are you making from it? Maybe $250 is a really good offer.

Regardless, you're using their brand, and they should be able to take the
domain easily enough if they want to.

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natch
One more thought: it's a trap. Do not take money from them. They can then
prove that you are making money from their (TM) name.

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frankj
Go to the press!

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brown9
I think you were really asking for trouble by registering/using a domain name
with their company's name in it.

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tzury
Tell them make the 250 250K and I will consider.

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noor420
I would set a price of USD $75000 for your website/business.

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thras
The only way to deal with these people is the same way you'd deal with the
Soviets: through MAD. Explain to them that without API access, the only
possible use of the domain to you would be as an anti-Zillow news site.

~~~
wehriam
How is this not blackmail? What's to stop me from registering ezillow.info and
doing the same thing?

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zackattack
I would consider the creative approach of immediately changing izillow.net to
a rallying cry.

