
How technology has redefined the job of the repo man - fern12
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/19/how-technology-has-redefined-the-job-of-the-repo-man/
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nimbius
I work as an automotive mechanic, and while I maintain a relatively neutral
opinion on repo men, sometimes the amateurs that crawl out of the weeds are
absurd.

Ive had repo agents posing as customers looking to "get their car," which is
pretty funny, but ive also seen agents harassing the front office staff with
demands for a vehicle being worked on. Sometimes a driver will park their car
to suddenly find theyve been "hitched up" to a seedy looking tow apparatus on
the back of an often ironically leased light duty truck. Repo agents in this
case show up as "innocent" middle men while a driver pleads and begs over the
phone with a lender to not tow their car for any number of humiliating
excuses.

Ive also had cars towed to the shop i work at complaining that the vehicle
does not start, which are sometimes the saddest jobs to work on as automotive
dealerships typically install an ECU interlock somewhere in the vehicle to
remotely disable or neuter certain features of the car if you dont make a
payment. I usually remove the devices, not out of a kindness to the customer
but because they can make diagnosing real problems with vehicles infuriatingly
difficult. They can also be triggered to honk the horn at random or odd
intervals as a reminder to pay the piper, which turns a regular shift in the
garage into a massive headache trying to track down the upset BMW or Mercedes
that wont stop making racket in the lot.

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foobarian
> which turns a regular shift in the garage into a massive headache trying to
> track down the upset BMW or Mercedes that wont stop making racket in the
> lot.

Wow, that is wild.

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nostromo
> The company’s goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that
> information to reveal patterns.

That's horrifying.

It reminds me of how social security numbers evolved from something narrow in
purpose to something that can be used to track an individual's every detail.
Now license plates are evolving into a tool that is used to build databases of
every individual's movement.

~~~
sambull
That's how the mafia used to work. Watch people during their fun times. Reveal
patterns, then extort them.

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vertexFarm
Used to, eh?

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wallflower
At least 10 years ago, a friend forgot where he parked his car in the Airport
parking lot after a long trip. When he went to the booth embarrassed to tell
them this, they said it was no big deal and did a quick tap-tap-tap on the
keyboard using his license plate number to determine its exact location. They
apparently scanned all the license plates in all their lots twice a day.

~~~
EmployedRussian
In 2001 my car was towed from LAX parking lot because they checked the plate
(they told me they scan all plates daily) and it came back as registered to a
different make.

Turns out the dealer made a single-letter mistake in VIN when registering the
car with DMV, and there is no check digit to reject invalid VINs.

~~~
phil21
There is a check digit. Most likely someone at the dealer copy/pasted the
wrong VIN into the form.

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djrogers
I honestly don’t get why anyone goes in to debt to buy a car in this day and
age. You can buy a car (or truck) for $3000 that will last several years
without requiring any huge mechanic bills or exotic maintenance - heck, I’ve
done it. I would much rather take the bus/bike/walk and save up $500/mo for 6
months to be a free man than buy or lease a car for $500/mo and be a space to
my creditors.

Besides, hoopties can be charming :-)

~~~
montecarl
I will be in need of a car soon. I don't drive much but just need something
that works and is safe. Do you have any tips on how you find your $3000 cars?
Are you a car guy?

~~~
ncallaway
My general approach is to look at craigslist (one example query:
[https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=used+car&sor...](https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=used+car&sort=rel&max_price=4000))
to get a sense of the market. Spend a little while (maybe a week) checking in
on a search like that to get a sense of the market.

Once you feel like you've got a sense of what "normal" prices are for cars in
your price range, get a consumer reports subscription†. Use CR to evaluate the
make, model, and year of any car that you're considering for safety and
reliability. Reliability is a pretty important indicator for cars in this
price range, because you'll tend to be looking at things with higher milage.

Then, watch craigslist for vehicles that seem like a good deal. With the
information you have, you should also be in a good position to call local used
car dealerships and tell them what you're looking for. You should have enough
information to tell when they're offering you a reasonable deal.

If you have the time and can afford to try and be a little picky. Obviously,
if you need a car you need a car, but if you can afford to take your time
it'll usually be worth it. Prefer cars that seem like they've been well-
maintained over their life and prefer cars that come from people who have kept
documentation of maintenance performed on the car.

Finally, no matter where you're considering buying from—dealer or
individual—take the car to a mechanic for a pre-sale inspection. This is a
common service most mechanics offer. Make sure you're the one selecting the
mechanic and the one paying the mechanic. That ensures that you should get a
fairly objective assessment of the car itself. This step isn't as important if
you're familiar with cars, but if you're not a car guy (as I'm not), it's
totally worth the price to find out if there are any immediate or upcoming
service issues that will be necessary for the car.

†I _think_ you can get a monthly subscription and cancel after one-month, but
you should double-check that. If you can get it for a single month, the $7.95
is totally worth it. If you have to get it for a full-year at a time, evaluate
the cost/benefit based on your budget.

~~~
leehuffman
> My general approach is to look at craigslist (one example query:
> [https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=used+car&sor...](https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=used+car&sor...))
> to get a sense of the market.

CL now allows you to search by 'Owner' listings and eliminate dealers
completely. Do that. If you're looking for a $3000 car, you don't want to
touch the dealer realm, it'll be filled with straight trash.

> Once you feel like you've got a sense of what "normal" prices are for cars
> in your price range, get a consumer reports subscription†.

Nah. If you're targeting a $3,000 vehicle you can very quickly figure out what
fits your requirements & budget. Volvo 240s, anything late 80s - early 90s
Toyota, early-mid 90s Ford Rangers, 1st & 2nd generation Geo Metros, etc.
These are just the cars that I've personally owned and as a result dug into
and researched. There are TONS of makes & models out there that are fantastic
vehicles that will perform extremely well for years to come inside your $3,000
budget.

> Prefer cars that seem like they've been well-maintained over their life and
> prefer cars that come from people who have kept documentation of maintenance
> performed on the car.

Find older people who are getting rid of their "daily" driver for good. I've
purchased at least 6 of these that looked like they traveled through time and
rolled off the showroom floor that day. They're generally one owner (since
they pulled them off the lot ~12 years ago and aren't going to own anything
else), dealer maintained, gently driven, with minimal miles; and they just
want it gone at a fair price.

Also, look at the photos. Is their coffee cup from that morning in the holder?
Is the interior a mess? Looks like they needed new wipers 6+ months ago and
definitely need to hose the thing down at a minimum? That's a bad owner. They
don't care for their vehicle. That means they didn't do scheduled maintenance
on it. If you list a car for sale without taking the hour to clear your shit
out of it, hit it with a vacuum, and take it through an automatic car wash –
they're not the seller you're looking for.

> Finally, no matter where you're considering buying from—dealer or
> individual—take the car to a mechanic for a pre-sale inspection. This is a
> common service most mechanics offer.

Also hit the community forums for the vehicle you're considering. They exist
for every make & model out there, I assure you. They almost always have a
"purchase checklist" type document published. Give that to the shop that's
doing your inspection and make sure they hit those bullet points as well.
Every make of vehicle will have its quirks that you want reviewed.

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alexpotato
Good time to point out that all cars entering or exiting New York City via a
bridge or tunnel are scanned.

~~~
Bromskloss
Why tunnels and bridges, specifically?

~~~
alexpotato
They act as natural choke points since Manhattan is an island.

In turn, that means that you know who entered or exited Manhattan and can
therefore deduce who is currently still there.

I would imagine in the event of an incident related to a vehicle, you could
start with the list of recent entrants and use it to start building a
timeline.

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saagarjha
Wow, everything in this article is horrifying:

> the rising deployment of remote engine cutoffs and GPS locators in cars

Wait, so people can remotely track my car or turn it off? This doesn't sound
like a hack away from disaster at all.

> The companyʼs goal is to capture every plate in Ohio and use that
> information to reveal patterns…“Itʼs kind of scary, but itʼs amazing,” said
> Alana Ferrante, chief executive of Relentless.

No, it's just scary.

> Repo agents are responsible for the majority of the billions of license
> plate scans produced nationwide. But they donʼt control the information.
> Most of that data is owned by Digital Recognition Network (DRN), a Fort
> Worth company that is the largest provider of license-plate-recognition
> systems. And DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private
> investigators — even other repo agents.

As if you couldn't make a bad situation worse: let's give all the information
to a private company that has every reason to resell all that data.

~~~
PhantomGremlin
_Wait, so people can remotely track my car or turn it off?_

Under those circumstances it's not really "your" car.

Yes, you might have put down 5% of the total purchase price. So you have a
title, and legally you own the car. But 95% of the "skin in the game" is the
lender's. The car belongs mostly to the lender.

Don't like that? Easy solution, don't be a deadbeat. Or save up and pay cash.

I agree with the rest of your post. The privacy implications are quite scary.

~~~
saagarjha
When I pay off the car, does the device get removed, or do I just come to an
agreement with the dealer that they won't remotely disable my car or track me?
Actually, when I buy a new car with cash, do they remove the device, or are
they just lazy and install one in every car?

~~~
joering2
For the very expensive cars they will send agent to remove ot at their
expense.

Its funny but most contracts wont tell you you have this kind of device on
you. Its mostly for expensive cars that havent been paid in month. My brother
worked as mechanic and people constantly came to remove it off the car. He
used to do that for a fee because its not his responsibility to check who owns
the car. He assumes whomever shows up at the shop with keys and money to pay
for his work, hes ready to go.

I always wondered how much it pissed them off. One time out of curiosity they
left device hooked to batter for some time. It took agent three weeks to show
up (i bet you once you stop driving that where they send someone to try to
pick it up). The agent was rude and angry to give out the car cause he seen
device pinging from said location. Altho he didnt have warrant they let him in
the lot out of shits and giggles just to waste his time in Georgia 103 degrees
summer daylight to walk around the lot size of a football stadium in search
for a grey Audi lol ;)

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clumsysmurf
> DRN sells the information to insurance companies, private investigators ...

I wonder if anyone in the insurance industry could comment on how this data is
used by them.

~~~
patio11
Not in the insurance industry, but as someone who is aware of how they price
risk: the zip code you park in at night heavily influences loss rates (and
therefore premiums) and self-reports of it are not always accurate.

~~~
perl4ever
Different types of insurance price comprehensive in radically different ways.
I was considering getting classic car insurance from a different company than
my regular insurance. They heavily penalize you if you park in the city, and
especially without an individual locked garage. That kind of makes sense, but
my regular insurance penalizes you if you park somewhere other than you live,
even if it's in a low-crime suburb and not exposed. They are fine with parking
in the middle of the city. So the optimal strategy depends on which insurance
you go with because they have very different prejudices.

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iampims
Disgusting. We need to rethink “privacy and surveillance” in the age of 24/7
cameras and image analysis.

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anfilt
Not a fan of the guy but it makes sense why steves jobs would "supposedly"
keep buying a new car to avoid getting license plates.

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modzu
unrelated, but REPO MAN (1984) is an excellent film.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Repo Men (2010) is even better.

In the future, beyond repossessing cars, why not also repossess artificial
organ replacements?

~~~
tzs
>> unrelated, but REPO MAN (1984) is an excellent film

> Repo Men (2010) is even better

That's not a very widely shared assessment.

Repo Man (1984): 98% on RT, average rating 8/10\. Ebert 3/4\. IMDB 6.9/10\.
75% Metacritic.

Repo Men (2010): 22% RT, average rating 4.2/10\. Ebert 2/4\. IMDB 6.3/10\. 32%
Metacritic.

1984 had a lot of science fiction movies: The Terminator, Dune, The Last
Starfighter, The Adventurers of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension,
Starman, Repo Man, Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; Night of the Comet,
The Philadelphia Experiment, 1984, The Ice Pirates, Supergirl, The Brother
from Another Planet, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, Dreamscape,
Firestarter, Electric Dreams, C.H.U.D, The Return of Godzilla, The Toxic
Avenger, and more.

