
The Fallacy of Money As A Means - scottbrit
http://life-longlearner.com/want-a-lot-of-money/
======
calinet6
This is a generally short-sighted article, that looks inward but not at the
bigger picture. I want to make a lot of money because I want to start a
family, and I want them to have the best life and the best opportunities
available. Not to be spoiled, but simply to have a good life. And that's just
the start.

I want to make money so I can help people. To be able to invest in things
which might cure diseases, solve hunger, produce cleaner cheaper energy.
Things which might have an opportunity to drive humanity forward.

I want to make money so that I can change the world. Not in the superficial
way that people think you mean when you say that, but in real ways; in ways
that create true value for humanity. Things that might drive us closer to a
star-trek-esque free-energy economy.

This is what people don't understand about money. Some people want it because
it has the power to do a lot of things. It is a measure of value, and you can
use that value to create more value. It might spiral so high that you don't
even know what to do with it anymore; and that's okay, because all it means is
that you've produced value and created something real. If I have billions of
dollars when I die, I won't care if I lose it. The real reward was the
creation of which it was an accidental result.

Travel? Nice things? Acceptance? Popularity? You think that's why people want
money? Child's play, all of them.

I noticed you have this on your first list: "create the biggest impact
possible?"

But you never responded to it. It's because it's the real reason. Money _is_ a
means to create the biggest impact possible. It is a means to create. Full
stop.

~~~
Afforess
From the article: _If people without families to support are brutally honest
with themselves_

So you are not the audience.

~~~
ryguytilidie
Wanting to start a family and having a family to support are two different
things. I imagine the goal of a ton of people without families is to generate
the capital necessary to start a family.

~~~
manmal
Having started a family a year ago, I wonder what kind of capital is necessary
to start a family is? For diapers? Or do people really want to save up for
college when they have barely left college themselves?

Until age 3, a child doesn't even need a dedicated room, so basically any apt
suitable for 2 people will do.

Disclaimer: I'm in Austria, maybe it's easier here.

~~~
ryguytilidie
Its almost certainly easier there, since you guys have, socialized medicine,
cheaper education, affordable housing, etc. All of the things we're terrible
at here in the US basically. Most people want to own a home, which in the SF
area will be 500k or so just for a reasonable place. Then you have to pay a
ton of money for health insurance, then you pay a ton to educate them, have a
babysitter, etc.

~~~
lgieron
Not sure about the affordable housing. From what I've read, in many parts of
Europe (for example in Germany), life-long renting is very common. In many
other places (where the rental market isn't as developed or where people
believe that they "must" own the property they live in), for many it takes a
30-year mortgage to buy a flat. Having said that, I don't know how the
situation looks in Austria in particular.

------
Udo
Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things".

Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing.
Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken
from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and
you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition,
the abstraction of means.

There's probably an upper cap for this effect, but I'd argue that 99% of us
will never reach that.

~~~
soup10
This rings really true. It makes me sad when high income earners don't
understand this, and live at or above their means. Instead of living below
your means and stress free, many people get trapped in a sick consumerist loop
where they spend at their means and/or take on debt. The enlightened know that
the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living
a life of maximum comfort/extravagance.

I wouldn't say that not middle-income means you have no freedom. It's more
about perspective. If you view money as an enormous burden on your freedom to
do whatever you want, then it becomes that. But you can do whatever you want,
regardless. There's no requirement to have "fuck you money" to have a "fuck
you, i'm not going to take your shit" attitude about life and relationships.

~~~
evincarofautumn
> The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money
> problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance.

Sound advice. Even though my income has happily grown over the past year, I’m
trying to keep my value perception of money as close as possible to where it
was when I was a poor student, to maintain my sanity as much as anything else.

------
acjohnson55
I agree, and it's interesting to see the resistance around here. I think a lot
of people don't really want to take a hard look at their own motivations
because they're afraid they might not like what they see. I don't think the
illusion of money-driven happiness is at all limited to the startup world. The
rat race exists in a whole lot of other careers too--law, medicine,
engineering, finance, showbiz, and so on.

I think most people chase money based on the perception that it will raise
them to some higher plane of existence. But the reality is that every time you
break into some new level, there's always just another level waiting above
you, enticing you to double down. This article has a strong point: instead of
chasing abstract advancement, figure out what it <i>actually is</i> that you
want, <i>and then</i> strategize how to get it. And better yet, strategize how
you can enjoy the journey. You might actually achieve definitive satisfaction
that way and also be able to look back on your life and not feel as though
half of it was spent in an unfulfilling chase.

------
niklaslogren
This article really resonates with me.

I've come to roughly the same conclusion as the author; namely, that I should
focus on figuring out my real motivations and work to fulfill them, rather
than blindly follow the "more-money-more-happiness" default route provided for
all of us.

I find it interesting that other commenters react so strongly to this article.
I think the article is a sobering one, and that the author makes a good point.
After thinking about it, if you come to the conclusion that more money _is_
what you need to fulfill your goals, then by all means go ahead. Introspection
is never wrong.

------
bdreadz
Seriously this article just angers me.

What about the person that wants to make some good money while also enjoying
the process. Wanting nice things and seeks financial freedom so as to provide
a exceptional living for him/herself as well as for their family.

I dream big. I am realistic and I take time to enjoy what I have. It's not
just reaching the summit that will be that moment. The journey is fantastic
and it's the journey to that exceptional lifestyle that is all part of it.

This article just comes at it from the entrepreneur that is only coming at it
for having the ends justify the means. However, a lot of people have jobs like
that. Heck I'd wager to say more than 50% easily of the population have jobs
like.

So I'd say to the entrepreneur that does slog away at something that he/she
really isn't into and does end up with at least the experience. That's
awesome. Maybe just the process of starting a business albeit tech one at
first gives them experience. That down the line they are already ahead to
possibly start some type of another business.

The more I write the more I feel like I'm just feeding this troll.

~~~
autotravis
Troll? So now people that honestly want to help others and offer advice are
trolls? He wrote the article because his introspection lead/is leading to a
better life for himself. Is sharing that with other people such a bad thing?

------
CurtMonash
When I worked on Wall Street, it was common to have a "number" in mind -- a
level of wealth one wanted to earn, after which one would retire.

By way of contrast, I got out after I'd only worked there about 5 years, with
enough savings to support me for only a few more.

Frankly, I wish I'd stuck with it and solved the "earning money" problem for
life for once and for all.

I.e., while I'm generally in agreement with this line of discussion, there are
also plenty of cases to just work at something not too unpleasant in return
for the money it provides one.

~~~
throwaway10wsit
(throwaway account) I have been working for 10 years as a software developer
and manager of software development teams for a large investment bank. When I
got started, and for the first 5 years or so, I thought that I could earn
enough to save up and "solve the 'earning money' problem" doing this. Now, I
don't think that's possible on this track.

I thought I'd get there in the beginning because I was doing very well at the
job and getting more and more recognition and responsibility. Large bonuses
were being given out to developers, and firms competed hard to get good ones.
But then came the 2007-2008 financial crisis, and everything changed. The pay
was reduced a lot--I have never made as much money as I did in 2006, despite
having gotten a title promotion, and a larger role with much more
responsibility, since then. New regulations have created a much more
bureaucratic, administration-obsessed environment than I was accustomed to,
making it much less pleasant for anyone interested in building and hacking.

So now I'm stuck at a local maximum--I feel like there could be a much better
situation out there for me, but no direct step I could take to put myself in
it. I still make enough that it would be tough to match my current salary
outside of wall street, but the work environment has degenerated so much that
I hate going to work, despite this taking most of my waking time and energy.
So I have to make a choice: I can stay at a my current job, with its
comfortable-but-not-stellar income and its ever-more-unpleasant work
environment, or I could jump to another position (be it a new job or
attempting to strike out on my own and develop a business and/or consulting)
that could be more fulfilling, but much lower-paid, at least initially.

To those who would advise me to strike out on my own with a startup or
consulting: my situation is complicated by my need to support my wife, who has
a condition that would make it prohibitively expensive to get her the medical
care she needs without employer-provided health insurance. (Nobody would
insure us on the individual market--not at a price I could pay if I were just
starting out on a business or consulting venture and attempting to live off my
savings until it got off the ground, at least.)

I know this is not the worst problem in the world to have. A huge number of
people would love to be in my shoes, and I can look at it from a larger
perspective and see that I'm still damn lucky to be where I am and have what I
have. But I'm not anywhere near able to "solve the 'earning money' problem"
and I don't think I will be anytime soon. So I still find myself wishing I'd
taken a leap earlier.

Of course, if I were a trader or had some other position in the actual
business to make the REAL money, then it might have been a different story.

~~~
CurtMonash
I was a stock analyst in the 1980s. Indeed, I was the #1-ranked software stock
analyst. So for me, it was a very real discussion.

------
jacoblyles
I once asked people to choose between

1) Making a contribution to society as profound as Isaac Newton's, but leading
such a harried life that they died before the age of 50 from a stress-related
illness

2) Leading a content, good, happy, and unremarkable life

Everyone in the Valley chooses (1)

~~~
briancaw2
Next time ask them to choose between: 1) The very slim possibility of making a
contribution to society as profound as Isaac Newton's, but leading such a
harried life that they died before the age of 50 from a stress-related
illness. 2) The pretty good chance that you can lead a fairly good, fairly
happy, fairly content, but generally unremakable life.

~~~
jacoblyles
yes, your modification is a lot more realistic.

------
shurcooL
I don't want a lot of money.

I would like just enough to afford shelter, food and internet, so I can not
die and keep working on making software development better.

~~~
evincarofautumn
Following the article, maybe that falls into the category of “autonomy over
your time”. I don’t normally think about money at all unless someone reminds
me by asking me to pay for food, rent, bills, whatever—it’s just a means to
keep me fed, programming, and travelling to see my girlfriend.

~~~
shurcooL
Yep.

------
dnautics
"I’m talking about becoming someone with strong moral fiber, a zeal for life,
and complete comfort in who they are and what they’re all about."

I think that this is exactly not what you want to do to find a life partner.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you do this, you will find that (almost)
all of your potential partners are shallow and extremely disappointing.
Moreover, the people you are attracted to will be afraid of getting into a
relationship precisely because they are, rightfully, afraid of disappointing
you, or, more likely, afraid of feeling disappointed in themselves. You might
get lucky, and it would help to be superficially attractive, if you choose to
try to meet members of the opposite (or same) sex by improving your inner
self.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try to be a better person, I'm just saying, it's
terrible dating advice.

~~~
acjohnson55
Huh? So you're suggesting setting the bar low for your inner-self just so you
can avoid intimidating partners of a lower standard? That makes no sense to
me. If I were single (which I'm not, because I have a satisfying relationship
built on mutual admiration), I would want people of low aspirations to self-
select themselves out of my dating pool.

~~~
dnautics
Why? People with "low aspirations" are not necessarily bad people, nor
unsuitable mates. Everyone needs something different in their lives. All I'm
saying is that "self-improvement for the sake of dating" is terrible advice.
Most people want to go on dates with people who are attractive, and self-
improvement is often an anti-pattern for that. Yes, we'd like to think that
everyone has real standards (versus superficial ones), we'd probably even like
to think that we set real, personality standards for ourselves, but that
doesn't get you out meeting people, and it can be extremely intimidating when
you actually do.

It's merely bad advice because that's not what people are looking for. Even
people who might intellectually think "oh, I'm looking for a good guy/good
gal" are not six times out of ten (that's a made-up statistic)

~~~
Psyonic
"Most people want to go on dates with people who are attractive, and self-
improvement is often an anti-pattern for that."

I don't see the contradiction. I'm fairly obsessed with self-improvement and
my body and health are a big part of that. I'm certainly more attractive now
than I was 5 years ago, for example.

------
timmm
Financial independence. Starting a profitable company is an interesting
challenge. Not having to worry about money. Providing value to the world.
Enjoying the intellectually stimulating challenge of programming. Working
remotely and on a self defined schedule. Having the reach associated with web
business (My customers literally come from all over the world). Being a self
made man. Being able to call the shots for my own company and as a result sink
or swim.

There's a million reasons why I want to start a web company. And I don't think
I'm lying to myself about any of them. If it was all about money I would be
working on perfecting my pitch and just focus on getting an investment.

------
anoncow
I am in my early 30s. Do not have much in savings, have a job that takes up
much of my time but won't really save me enough. I dô not know what my aim in
life is. I have been thinking hard but I can't seem to pick one. I can rule
out some, but I can't rule them out completely.

Family: I have little interest in starting a family. Where I live,
overpopulation is a problem. I don't like driving. There isn't even enough
place to park cars. Why does everyone have to buy a car?

Money: I have little interest in making a lot of money. Growing up, my family
had enough money, but I saw how my parents really didn't have time for much
else than making moey.

Name, Fame and acceptance: I think about this sometimes. My college peers are
apparently well settled. Higher up in the job/salary/business/family heirarchy
than I can hope reaching in my lifetime. Makes me sad a little thinking they
must be looking down on me, but then I realise that it doesn't realy matter. I
wouldn't have been happier if I had made the choices that they did in life and
I wouldn't be happy chasing success just because I can have acceptance from my
peers. Because all of us are individuals with separate lives. But all in all
comparing myself to my peers makes me unhappy transiently, even when I know
that I don't hate their success and being happy for them makes me happy.

Happiness: Sometimes I can pinpoint what makes me happy. Like when I am
working on a hobby application,which turns out better than I expected. Or when
I find a smarter way to implment a certain feature. Other times it is not that
easy to say what makes me happy. Building something so I can be the next
facebook or tumblr doesn't make me happy. Perhaps because I know that it is
impossible.

A lot of the happiness problems is because of the need for social acceptance.
I don't grudge my peers their success, but sometimes you feel the eyes of
society scurutinizing you and judging you as a failure and that is what makes
me unhappy, but only transiently. Because, I know that what society thinks
about me is not that important. For eg. Currently it is important enough for
me to be posting anonymously online, but not important enough to make me
decide what I want to do in life.

But eventually thinking about the meaning of life does not lead to answers.
Perhaps it is a difficult thing to understand. Or perhaps everyone else has it
right and I am afraid of trying and losing.

I understand that the biological reason of life is procreation. But I
understand little else. So I generally try to live in the present and try to
save some money so I don't become a slave to my current job and eventually
hope to be self employed, make enough money, not hurt others and maybe help
others a little.

------
joonix
This article might be relevant if you're 20 years old. For the other parts of
your life, when you want to have a family, and a spouse (whom you don't spend
all your time arguing about money with), and also enjoy the nice parts of life
like traveling, a comfortable home in a good area with good schools, the
ability to change whatever you're doing if you're unhappy, to get great
healthcare should you need it, etc etc... you need wealth. Period. Btw, a high
income, high expense lifestyle is not "rich" because you are a slave to your
job. Wealth is an entirely different world all together.

------
Zimahl
I think for me what it comes down to is 'F U money'. I will feel successful
when I have enough money earned and saved that any storm can be weathered,
even if I decide to walk into said storm (leave via an 'F U', hence the name).

It might not be a reality. It might not even be attainable (maybe the bar
keeps moving), but that's my criteria.

------
jasonkostempski
"It is because you want total autonomy over your time?" Would be my #1 goal.
The alternative "Find a career that is already what you’d consistently be
doing..." is silly. Given complete control over my time I wouldn't be doing
much consistently let alone for a career's length of time.

------
mikeocool
> He tells people “he likes building things” because that seems to be a
> publicly acceptable rationale for building a tech company…but super secretly
> he just sees starting a tech company as a means to generating an inordinate
> amount of wealth quickly

I have a hard time believing that anyone who is only fueled by money and does
not truly enjoy 'building things' would last all that long starting a company.

I know a great many writers. Not many people get rich writing (if $1 billion
tech company exits are black swans, then JK Rowling is like a rainbow swan or
something), and yet there are still people who choose to write. They truly
enjoy writing, they make their lives work even though they no they're not very
likely to end up with a million dollar book deal.

I get the feeling from most of the really great people I've met in the tech
world that they would be 'building things' even if it there wasn't the
seemingly realistic possibility of millions of dollars. They're not in it for
the end game of travel or sex, they're in it because they're only happy
'building things.'

------
babesh
Most people are going to have children eventually even if they don't have them
right now. If you are thinking ahead, you best be investing before you have
children.

Most people want a certain quality of life that getting more and more
expensive: a safe neighborhood to live in, decent schools for kids, healthy
food to eat, some free time.

~~~
danielweber
Usually busting your ass "now" will give you more flexibility "later."

------
MarkHarmon
Money is just a symbol of value. Who doesn't want to be highly valued. People
love coming up with grand reason for justifying their desire for massive
amounts of money. I suspect most people, deep down inside, just want the
secure feeling that having tons of money provides. It's your license to
freedom.

------
kidcoach
Where is the 'payoff student loans' bullet point.

------
makerops
I can not speak for anyone but myself obviously, but I enjoy the visceral
response to the highs and lows of doing, building, and putting things out
there for the general public. There aren't many drugs that can recreate the
high of earning your first dollar from something you have created.

------
Felix21
When you get down to the core, there are many reasons one might want to start
a company:

Freedom, Legacy, Philanthropy and Charity work, Fame, Superiority, You just
enjoy creating value, To scratch an itch?, Sex... Maybe? E.T.C

...

And you are right that we need to find out exactly what our motivations are
and then truly accept and admit it..

Next, optimise your company, life and decisions so that you can achieve those
goals otherwise you'll end up miserable, confused and un-satisfied.

Starting a company might not always be the best way to satisfy our desires but
in some cases (like if all you desire is FREEDOM), there is no better way to
satisfy that desire than to start a company.

And while money cant solve all problems (it solves a lot of problems) it makes
living with said problems (and also solving said problems) a whole lot easier.

------
cgag
To buy my freedom.

~~~
chadgeidel
Seriously. It's amazing to me that this idea doesn't enter folks' minds. I
would love to do my current job for 50% of the pay and work 6 months out of
the year and take 6 months vacation (yes, I know the numbers would be a little
different). This is not an option. You either do temp work/contracting work (a
giant PITA IMHO) or you "man up" and work 40-50 hour weeks with 2 weeks of
vacation.

~~~
babesh
Its because of the competition. For instance, if you do that, you have half
the pay and if you want to buy a house (limited supply in Silicon Valley) then
people with a full income will outcompete you for the same house. That's also
what is driving up the housing prices.

------
7Figures2Commas
Money may or may not be _the_ path to happiness, but I find it hard to believe
that true happiness is going to found in trying to convince others that it
isn't.

To quote the author, I'm sure there is "a much more direct path" to living a
fulfilling life than focusing one's energy on asking others to question their
true motivations and suggesting that if they're "brutally honest with
themselves," they'll come to the same conclusions as the author.

Ironically, much of the time, public displays of introspection like this are
driven by the acceptance-seeking that the author is apparently not very fond
of.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
Well, it's just armchair moralizing. Who is to say having wealth and bottle
service, and so on and so forth does not lead to happiness for anyone?

------
edanm
Great idea. Really, sincerely - I love it. All the conversations I have with
people considering entrepreneurship start with "what are your goals... ok,
what are your real goals." Goal clarification is incredibly important.

I did have a problem with almost all of the rest of the article though - the
Author dismisses offhandedly many, many goals which are quite legitimate, and
tries to build a case that money is not _really_ necessary for most of the
things people try to achieve. Maybe that's true, but there are plenty of cases
where money _is_ important:

\- I know several "effective altruists" [1], who work hard to make the most
amount of money, and donate as much of it to charity as possible. This is to
help other people, not to achieve a personal sense of worth, and very much
depends on making as much money as possible.

\- People who want the freedom of not having to work, but don't yet know what
they could do that won't feel like work. It's always a nice sentiment to try
and work at something which you love doing, and is even possible in many
cases... but ask many 25 year olds what kind of work they'd still enjoy doing
at 40, and not many will be able to tell you for sure.

etc.

[1]: See e.g. <http://80000hours.org/>

------
ttty
What if I want it because I hate to wake up early in the morning and go to
work?

------
ibudiallo
Before you get the money, your goal is to change the world and make the
biggest impact. When you get it, your priorities change. You sometimes realize
it takes more than money to make an impact. You may still make a difference
but not the way you had planned, and but without money you would still be
dreaming unrealistically.

------
6ren
The journey is the destination. It is better to travel than to arrive. Getting
there is half the fun.

    
    
      Life only avails, not the having lived. Power ceases in the instant of repose; it
      resides in the moment of transition from a past to a new state, in the shooting of
      the gulf, in the darting to an aim. This one fact the world hates, that the soul
      *becomes*; for that for ever degrades the past, turns all riches to poverty, all
      reputation to a shame, confounds the saint with the rogue, shoves Jesus and Judas
      equally aside.

<http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm>

------
danielweber
I like his list of goals for money.

I don't like the way he just says "do something else" to achieve them. A lot
of them involve making other people happy, which is something _you cannot ever
do_. You are not in charge of other people.

Of course, there is no guarantee that by the time you have money it will still
make you attractive to the appropriate sex, or earn you the respect of your
peers. It does have a very good track record, though.

------
room271
I feel like a lot of people commenting here are correctly identifying that
being dirt poor sucks. But they are then confusing this with a general linear
(or near linear) relationship between money and happiness.

If you are doing a regular skilled job in a Western country I would argue you
will have enough money to pursue happiness/not be overly blocked by lack of
wealth.

------
dgreensp
If you don't care about changing the world _or_ creating a great company _or_
building stuff, you probably shouldn't be an entrepreneur.

But if you're going to pick a fake motivation for your pitch deck, "I just
want to build stuff" is pretty lame. Do people really say that when it isn't
even true?

~~~
evincarofautumn
“I just want to build stuff” is often true if qualified: “…that a lot of
people use”, “…that makes people’s lives better”, “…to further my plans for
world domination”, &c.

~~~
dgreensp
I was reacting to this:

 _Guy decides he wants to be a tech entrepreneur. He tells people “he likes
building things” because that seems to be a publicly acceptable rationale for
building a tech company…but super secretly he just sees starting a tech
company as a means to generating an inordinate amount of wealth quickly in a
way that’s more enjoyable than playing excel like a keyboard._

I think many or most of us, especially in YC circles, do start a company
because we "like building things" -- not literally _just_ that, but it's a
part of our motivation or identity to get inherent pleasure from building
things. If you don't, though, I see no reason to fake it. It may be cool and
trendy to be a maker at heart, but it's certainly no prerequisite for starting
a company.

We've really come full circle if we've gone from legitimizing and celebrating
hackers and makers as founders to the point where people are posing as them to
better fit a script. It sounds like cargo cult entrepreneurship or Zuck mania.

------
johnjlocke
This article is on point. Money is a flow, it comes and goes, and the tighter
you grip to it, the harder it is to gather. The hardest thing to do is make up
your own mind, without worrying about what other people think of you.

------
navyad
money is a important thing in life which may give you a "good life" but this
"good life" is different from person to person like a person like to have a
smart-phone and consider it as a part of "good life" whereas another person
just wants to have any ordinary phone and consider it as a part of good life.
The point is one needs to know what he wanted money for, not he other way
round. It has to means, not end of life

------
sethbannon
tl;dr: "Chasing money is not usually the most efficient or enjoyable route to
happiness. So does it make sense to waste our lives doing things we honestly
don’t love to make it so we can eventually.…uhh [insert something that will
eventually make you happy here]?"

------
novaleaf
the author tries to cover himself by saying "people without families to
support"

but of course most people plan to have a family someday... when that's taken
into consideration, I think the author's claim of "a wasted life" seems
extremely naive and misguided

------
mikebludd
when young, always go for the money then you can retire early and work on your
life long dream of being of a Tuperware sales man.

