
TP-82 Cosmonaut survival pistol - BerislavLopac
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82_Cosmonaut_survival_pistol
======
nickgrosvenor
This is is exactly the type of thing I come to this site for. Showing me
fringe info I don’t even know I’m interested in knowing about.

~~~
jxramos
The article had a link to an AK-74, and I thought is that a typo for an AK-47?
Apparently Russia moved on to the next generation in 1974 and the rest of the
world remained with AK-47s?

~~~
ARandomerDude
It's all about the cost.

During WW2 and Korea, militaries generally favored larger, heavier bullets.
The thinking was power is good. Over time, people realized that carrying
weight is bad, and volume of fire is usually better than the power of a single
cartridge – so the US moved to the M-16 (M4, AR-15) and the Soviets to the
AK-74.

The sticking point is you have to have the money for BOTH:

1\. Mass caliber conversion (rifle replacement, new ammo, new tooling...), AND

2\. Purchase of additional, larger caliber weapons to replace the capability
you lost when switching most of your forces from the intermediate cartridge to
the newer, smaller bullet.

So, poorer countries tended to stick with the AK-47, and wealthier Soviet-bloc
countries went to the AK-74...but there aren't too many wealthy communist
countries, so the AK-47 remained the standard.

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mywittyname
See also:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol)

That's straight out of Scifi.

~~~
varjag
What it looked like:
[http://www.geraldika.org/images/06_2007/010_04.jpg](http://www.geraldika.org/images/06_2007/010_04.jpg)

~~~
the_af
Seems like a movie prop. What evidence is there that this thing was a real
prototype?

~~~
varjag
It's an exhibit in Russia's Strategic Missile Forces Academy museum.

~~~
the_af
Ok, that's evidence enough! Still looks like a prop though :P

~~~
varjag
Did you know that Princess Leia's blaster was not a prop but an actual Soviet
handgun?

[http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Original_Trilogy#DD...](http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Original_Trilogy#DDC_Defender_and_SC_X-30_Blaster_Pistols_.28Vostok_Margolin_.22LR_target_pistol.29)

~~~
the_af
Cool! Did not know that.

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varjag
Worth noting it took two decades from Leonov's complaint to introduction of
this handgun.

~~~
grenoire
Soviet bureaucracy at its finest.

~~~
dwd
I thought the advanced team quickly building a log cabin to sleep in was very
Russian.

I knew a guy years ago who kind-of described it as a right of passage that you
would take a trip out into the woods and build your own cabin/dacha.

A Finnish friend sent me his pictures of building his, including the
obligatory sauna.

~~~
grenoire
It might be that Russians cooperate very well (I do definitely agree on that),
but as the organisation grows bigger, it is definitely very Russian to not be
able to do _anything._

~~~
nephrite
It's not a Russian trait, it's a common bureaucratic trait, and Soviet Union
was bureaucratized over any sane limits.

~~~
avmich
One of signatures of Henry Spencer (
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Spencer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Spencer)
) looks like this:

    
    
        -- 
        Americans proved to be more bureaucratic           |       Henry Spencer
        than I ever thought.  --Valery Ryumin, RKK Energia |   henry@zoo.toronto.edu
    
    

[https://yarchive.net/space/rocket/fuels/hydrogen.html](https://yarchive.net/space/rocket/fuels/hydrogen.html)

------
alexhutcheson
I can’t be the only one who was disappointed to find out that these weren’t
designed for Cold War space combat with American astronauts.

~~~
st_goliath
The Salyut 3 space station had an aircraft gun mounted for defense in orbit:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salyut_3#On-
board_gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salyut_3#On-board_gun)

~~~
kitd
Interesting. Would something like that have had an effect on the velocity of
the spacecraft?

~~~
rhinoceraptor
If my math is right, you'd need to fire the gun 60 times to change the
velocity by one meter per second.

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AaronNewcomer
Here is a couple threads of discussion on the ammo:

[https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/space-shotgun-
ammo/2...](https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/space-shotgun-ammo/23669)

[https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/russian-
tp-82-surviv...](https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/russian-
tp-82-survival-gun-and-ammunition/2596)

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ch_123
> In 2007,[2] the media reported that the remaining ammunition for the TP-82
> had become unusable and that a regular semi-automatic pistol would be used
> on future missions.

Assuming the gun fires 28 gauge shotgun shells and standard AK74 ammunition, I
can't see why the original ammunition failing would be a problem. Is there
something I am missing here?

~~~
technothrasher
> Is there something I am missing here?

They weren't standard AK74 rounds. They were a special soft point version
(5.45x39 SN-P) that were only used in these survival guns.

~~~
logfromblammo
Couldn't someone just hand-load a different bullet into the same base
cartridge? In the worst case scenario, swap out the barrel for one that can
handle the standard rounds?

~~~
sdenton4
...or just start handing out newer, lighter automatic pistols, and save
yourself some flight weight and an occasional maintenance headache.

~~~
technothrasher
They were already using lighter weight Makarov pistols before the TP-82, and
switched to the combo gun after some cosmonauts spent the night in the
Siberian wilderness and thought a small semi-auto pistol wasn't enough. But,
yeah, running out of qualified ammo likely just supplied the impetus to re-
evaluate the necessity of the TP-82.

More interesting is the laser pistol the USSR attempted to design for
cosmonauts to carry.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol)

~~~
logfromblammo
But the laser gun was for blinding satellite cameras, not fending off Siberian
bears.

~~~
technothrasher
True, but still fun, and still pretty much useless for either job.

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dsfyu404ed
200m effective range seems a wee bit optimistic to me considering that barrel
length.

~~~
lm28469
The russian version of the article gives it a 50% accuracy a 100m, so yeah,
good luck with 200m.

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coolspot
Here is Mark Shuttleworth training using one:
[https://miro.medium.com/max/3300/1*81CK-
yP7BzV8pJHDa9QtLw.jp...](https://miro.medium.com/max/3300/1*81CK-
yP7BzV8pJHDa9QtLw.jpeg)

Source: [https://medium.com/war-is-boring/soviet-cosmonauts-
carried-a...](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/soviet-cosmonauts-carried-a-
shotgun-into-space-a9e7852c6da5)

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trehalose
Three barrels: two shotgun and one rifle? Wow. That's a lot of firepower for
one pistol. I don't know anything about gun construction, but I'm amazed such
a small gun holds together being so hole-y.

I'm surprised I've never seen these in an FPS. Seems like a unique and
versatile sidearm.

~~~
40four
I though the same thing! This would be a really cool un-lockable sidearm in
Battlefield or Call of Duty!

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mkl
I can't find out if it was ever actually used. Does anyone know?

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al2o3cr
Moon's haunted.

~~~
ineedasername
Not haunted, the man in the moon simply dug further down into the cheese layer
beneath the lunar regolith when we got there and started poking things with
flags.

------
ineedasername
And if you ran out of ammo, it would make a pretty decent club to beat, well,
anything with.

~~~
ajscanlan
It even has a machete in the stock.

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patthebunny
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_laser_pistol)

------
sajithdilshan
Only in Siberia

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torgian
Damn, Russians don’t do things halfway

~~~
goatinaboat
On a similar note The Man In Black on Westworld favours
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeMat_Revolver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeMat_Revolver)

~~~
ubermonkey
It was an interesting choice, and they didn't mess it up -- as I recall, some
LeMat peculiarities play into the plot at one point, so the propmaster knew
what they were doing.

Because I'm a nerd who grew up shooting, I've taken several runs at a "guns
for writers" primer, because it's hard to get right if you don't know anything
about firearms. The best rule is to avoid specifics here if you can, because
naming a brand (e.g.) can back you into a corner if you don't know anything
about the brand. (Case in point, I read a book a year or so ago that included
a character cocking a SIG Sauer, which isn't possible.)

Point being, choosing a LeMat is a risky option for the writer because it's so
unusual, so I was really happy to see they did so knowing what it was. We
wouldn't really have LOST anything if they'd just given the MiB a bog-standard
1851 Colt or Single Action Army, but the LeMat adds a little
depth/spice/eccentricity. It's a nice choice.

------
nilsjuenemann
Why is this on HN? It's again another $random Wikipedia article.

~~~
renjimen
Because the poster thought it might be interesting to those who frequent the
site? Considering its position on the front page at time of writing I would
say he thought correctly.

