
The Troll Hunters - pmcpinto
http://www.technologyreview.com/photoessay/533426/the-troll-hunters
======
forgottenpass
_“The agenda is to raise hell about all the hate on the Net,” he says. “To
start a discussion.”_

I wonder if he actually believes that. The description reads like a simple 2
minutes hate for TV ratings. A diet brand of that hidden camera catch-the-
internet-pedo show.

Even putting that aside for a second, what does it mean when people in the
media talk about "starting a discussion?" Whenever I hear it, it's said by
someone that appears to have a mind already made up, from a media platform
that doesn't value and engage in audience participation. Even bloggers with
websites allowing comments tend to have an adversarial attitude towards their
audience because of the signal to noise ratio in their comments, an attitude
that pushes the level of signal down even further. The "discussion" often
looks like like-minded bloggers talking amongst themselves lobbing pot-shots
to and fro with a circle of differently likeminded bloggers.

We've been having a ground-up discussion about flaming and trolling on the
internet for decades. Now that internet harassment has become a hot topic, the
media has rolled in and is having a top-down discussion amongst self-appointed
"very serious people" that seem rather incongruous with what my many years of
experience on the internet.

------
adamnemecek
Pro tip, if you equate trolls with neo-Nazis and trolling with hate speech,
you are not qualified to speak about either.

~~~
thenmar
I don't think this sort of empty, dismissive comment helps anyone. Besides, is
there even _that_ much difference between someone who is genuinely hateful and
someone who's just saying hateful things because they enjoy making other
people upset? If it looks like a duck...

~~~
adamnemecek
Yes because trolling is not necessarily hateful. I would go as far as to say
that for the most part it isn't.

~~~
theorique
Agreed. Trolling, in the classic/historical internet sense, is trying to
irritate others by baiting them into an online argument that they take very
seriously. Trolls are generally pests, but not hateful.

------
ll123
A lot of people nowadays support things like getting people fired for having
unpopular opinions and say in response, "freedom of speech doesn't mean
freedom from consequences." Unless they automatically only believe in what's
popular, it's in their best interest to protect expression of unpopular and
offensive opinions, because when the tide of popular opinion turns against
them, when the internet hate mob starts attacking them, then they'll realize
why there shouldn't be harsh personal and professional consequences for
expressing unpopular opinions.

People defend these sorts of vigilante actions by saying, those people aren't
just expressing their opinions, they're saying hate speech. But almost all
political opinions can be turned into moral faults though. If you support
abortion you support murdering babies, you are a monster. If you support
Palestine you support anti-semitism and terrorism, you are a monster. If you
support (any right wing opinion), you are a monster.

~~~
gaius
Recently a _left wing, female_ politician in the UK had her career destroyed
by an ill-advised tweet (as in, revealing her true thoughts about the working
class voters who elected her). You would this that would have educated these
people that what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, but there's no
sign it has.

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thieving_magpie
Adrian Chen article? No thanks.

Wouldn't trust a word he writes.

~~~
tartuffe78
Not familiar with him, what has he reported on before?

~~~
monksy
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Chen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Chen)

He's (/was) a Gawker network journalist who prided himself in doxxing
violentacrerz (va) on reddit. VA was responsible for moding a few of the NSFW
and unsavory subs, one of them being jailbait, on reddit. Agree or disagree
with the sub, it's crappy to dox someone and go after their job/family/income
etc. Then again bluelisting is the goal of SJWs these days.

He's also got a few other not so thrilling things that he's participated in as
well... but I'll let you read the wikipedia article.

I don't think that article does it justice about the particular situation:
Read more about VA:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brutsch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Brutsch)

~~~
gaius
_Then again bluelisting is the goal of SJWs these days._

Rule 12
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals#Themes](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals#Themes)

~~~
monksy
I'm sure I've seen something like that before. Those individuals should be put
on their own island.

------
gaius
These days, "troll" just means "anyone I disagree with".

------
theorique
Who gets the authority to define "troll" versus "vigorous debater on opposing
side"?

~~~
monksy
Usually it's the person who is the most offended. [Which means the observer]

------
stefantalpalaru
Great! So now doxing and stalking are totally awesome as long as it's being
done to people we dislike, right?

------
Dewie
Other than being Internet harassers, trolls have their origin as a name for
several different (depending on region, time) humanoid creatures, inspired by
and originating in Norse mythology. _Troll_ may have originated as a negative
synonym for _jötunn_ , a mythological race that were often in opposition or
competition with the Norse gods (the Æsir).

Their physical appearance is varied; while in Norway they might be more
associated with giants, specifically as depicted in the art of Theodor
Kittelsen[1]; in Sweden, the work of John Bauer[2] seems to have influenced
the general perception of trolls in a similar way; in Middle Sweden, trolls
apparently look very much like humans, to the point that it is hard to
distinguish them from humans; outside of Scandinavia, troll dolls[3] may the
most known depiction.

 _To troll_ (Norwegian: _å trolle_ ) was apparently related to the verb _å
trylle_ : to do/practice magic. _Trolldom_ is a word which in contemporary
Norwegian simply means _magic_ (with IMO a more supernatural connotation than
the word _magi_ ), while it was a legal term to denote _witchcraft_ at the
time of the witch-hunts. Maybe _to troll_ can be related to the more modern
meaning of being a deceitful trickster in anonymous forums? There is also a
saying, _å gå troll i ord_ , which can convey the same sentiment as "be
careful what you wish for". More generally, it is a superstition of not daring
to speak of some evil by its rightful name, for fear evoking/summoning it
(like... Voldemort in Harry Potter). A Swedish dictionary from 1678 has this
to say about that matter: «när man talar om trollet, så är det inte långt
borta» ('the troll is not far away when one speaks of it').

Trolls seem have an aversion to human settlements, preferring to live in
remote and "uninhabited" places, like forests, mountains and caves. In
Southern Sweden folklore, trolls seem to be believed to have either died out
or driven away with the rise of Christianity[4]. One still had reason to fear
the trolls, though, since they could kidnap you and drive you mad (
_bergtagning_ ), which was used as an explanation of mental illness. They
could also swap your child for their own (changeling). Thankfully, trolls
could be driven away by the sound of church bells, in the same way that they
had an aversion to Thor and his hammer. A somewhat famous phrase from
Norwegian folklore is a troll exclaiming that "he can smell Christian man's
blood!", which I think was supposed to mean that he was fond of eating
Christian men (humans?).

Trolls were also known for hurling rocks, for example at rocks. I think this
has to do with seemingly random large rocks that can be found in the North
Northern Hemisphere where they "couldn't have ended up naturally", while in
reality they were carried there by glaciers thousands of years ago. Some
trolls are also part of the Scandinavian nature itself, due to their
particular weakness of turning to stone at the sight of sunlight.

###

A work totally unrelated to "The Troll Hunters" is "The Troll Hunter", a
Norwegian mockumentary about a man who hunts actual, mythological trolls.

[1] See (google) the painting _Trollet som grunner på hvor gammelt det er_

[2]
[http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#mediaviewer/File:John_Bau...](http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll#mediaviewer/File:John_Bauer_1915.jpg)

[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_doll](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_doll)

[4] This is something they have in common with some "elvish" creatures in
Norse mythology; they were also seen as evil when Christianity took a
foothold. But unlike trolls, these elvish beings were previously thought of as
good beings.

