
The Rise and Fall of RedBook - prostoalex
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/redbook/
======
zaroth
Wired article on the benefits of MyRedBook to escorts doesn't mention there
was an entire sister site called MyPinkBook (not listed in the indictment but
also shut down) with its own set of forums specifically for escorts to trade
safety tips, resources for medical screenings, how to get help in dangerous
situations, etc... It's almost too bad it was so profitable because these were
sites that very likely saved lives serving a particularly vulnerable
population.

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BadassFractal
I hope one day, assuming I have the money and don't have a stable partner, I
will legally be able to pay a professional for their company for a few hours,
both as consenting adults not under duress.

I like to think that we have the right to be "loved" and cared for, even if
fictitiously and for a very brief moment.

~~~
craigsmitham
Not all consent is created equal. Momentary consent does not justify a
lifetime of oppression and discrimination. Prostitution is an act of violence
against all women and should be prosecuted as such.

[http://www.buzzfeed.com/jinamoore/in-sweden-being-a-
prostitu...](http://www.buzzfeed.com/jinamoore/in-sweden-being-a-prostitute-
is-legal-but-paying-one-isnt#.gr4lYdGAm)

~~~
dethstar
Could you expand on the "not all consent is created equal" part?

Is it related to other things such as sexual slavery?

~~~
x0x0
If a starving or addicted person does X for $Y, is that true consent? While
you're not literally raping the person, it's closer to rape than consent imo.

~~~
smtddr
If we go down this logical path, I'd say society already has lower-than-
minimum-wage and/or dangerous jobs being done by people who have no feasible
alternative... so we've kinda already accepted that this situation will occur
for some people. Not saying this is okay, just saying that legalized
prostitution as a profession would just be another dangerous job in a long
list of other extremely hazardous jobs people probably shouldn't do, but end
up doing anyway.

~~~
Kalium
Continuing down that logical path, it's impossible to have a truly consensual
business transaction of any sort because the involvement of currency makes it
coercive.

~~~
smtddr
I think the implied part of this discussion is "captive". The person must at
least feel that there is no other choice.

We see that in prostitution, in illegal immigrants working in horrible
conditions, Dubai laborers[1], etc. In contrast, a Software Developer in the
Bay area can hardly claim such conditions.

1\. [http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2014/oct/23/mi...](http://www.theguardian.com/global-
development/2014/oct/23/migrant-domestic-workers-uae-beaten-abused)

~~~
Kalium
I think the implied part of this discussion is that there are transactions
taking place with a power imbalance between the parties. If that is not
acceptable, most of capitalism will promptly fall apart.

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escortingadvice
Some related news:

In San Francisco, ESPLER (Erotic Service Provider Legal, Educational and
Research, [http://esplerp.org/](http://esplerp.org/),
[https://twitter.com/esplerp](https://twitter.com/esplerp)) filed suit
yesterday against several Bay Area DAs and the California Attorney General, in
an attempt to get the primary CA law against prostitution overturned on
constutitional grounds. This is on a similar basis

Article about this on VICE: [http://www.vice.com/read/a-new-lawsuit-aims-to-
decriminalize...](http://www.vice.com/read/a-new-lawsuit-aims-to-
decriminalize-prostitution-in-california-304) Another article:
[http://48hills.org/2015/03/03/lawsuit-seeks-to-throw-out-
law...](http://48hills.org/2015/03/03/lawsuit-seeks-to-throw-out-laws-against-
sex-work/) More details:
[https://twitter.com/EscortingAdvice/status/57316383250533171...](https://twitter.com/EscortingAdvice/status/573163832505331712)
Summary and full text of the brief: [http://esplerp.org/here-is-the-
brief/](http://esplerp.org/here-is-the-brief/) Legal thoughts from the lead
lawyer:
[https://twitter.com/GillSperlein/status/573268807629721600](https://twitter.com/GillSperlein/status/573268807629721600)

If you support this effort, you can help fund the legal fees here:
[http://www.gofundme.com/liberateliberate](http://www.gofundme.com/liberateliberate)

There's also a follow-up article from Reason that relates the shutdown of
MyRedBook to the shutdown of Silk Road, and how both are a continuing war on
citizen safety: Reason article: [http://reason.com/blog/2015/03/03/governent-
war-on-online-vi...](http://reason.com/blog/2015/03/03/governent-war-on-
online-vice-purchasing)

Finally, a related article from VICE on why there's no Uber for sex work.
Essentially, at least in the US, decriminalization needs to happen first. VICE
article: [http://www.vice.com/read/why-theres-no-uber-for-sex-
work-304...](http://www.vice.com/read/why-theres-no-uber-for-sex-
work-304?utm_source=vicetwitterus)

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GigabyteCoin
The thing I don't get is why the owner of the company (after 10 years of being
online and making $5M+) decided to remain a resident of the United States
given their current legal atmosphere.

I get it... family, friends, etc... But he should have known that prosecution
was coming, not that it was right or just, only because he was in the USA.

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nickodell
I'm confused. Why were they charged with money laundering? Was this some kind
of technicality, or did they actually try to hide the money they made?

~~~
EdwardDiego
Racketeering and money laundering seems to be the Fed's catch-all charges for
"Your users may have been committing crimes" \- the money laundering might
come when you take money from 'criminals', at a guess.

They have charged Kim Dotcom with the same offenses for running megaupload,
and I think that they chucked in wire fraud as well.

It's worrying how vague these 'crimes' are, it tips the balance of power too
far in the direction of the government agency.

~~~
tsotha
Yeah, there's a reason 98% of cases never go to trial. Adding up all these
kinds of charges allows the prosecutor to say "Hey, with these charges you
could go to jail for 300 years. Or... you could just plead guilty to what we
went after you for."

Doesn't matter if you're innocent or guilty. Game theory (born out by
statistics) says you take the plea.

If they made me king tomorrow the first thing I would do is make plea bargains
illegal.

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Potando
Price fixing is a good thing? "“Five or six years ago, a bunch of women on the
site who did erotic massage got together and were like, ‘What if we all raise
our rates by $20?’ And it totally worked. That can't happen now.”"

~~~
bmelton
The very idea that collusion is always bad is a fallacy. Price fixing is a
good thing when it obliterates exploitative wages, sure.

One man's "price fixing" is another man's "unionization", and this is more
akin to the latter than the former, really. Aside from that, as there are
indeed minimal barriers to entry in the market of erotic massage, and the
legal headaches are generally equal to all participants, if the price got too
high, it would be easy for upstarts to disrupt the market.

~~~
sukilot
It's not collective bargaining if only one side is collective.

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sengork
Half way reading through the headline I had the impression that this was about
IBM RedBooks...

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guard-of-terra
I was expecting this to be about CDDA, which would be more interesting.

