
Why Twitch Needs A Competitor - ssclafani
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-twitch-needs-a-competitor-2013-5
======
newsoundwave
While I agree with the sentiment, the current "competitors" that have shown up
are either equally twitchy about TOS violations [1], have abysmally poor
performance in many areas of the world (again I'm referring to ustream.tv), or
are basically scams[2].

They've also been pretty good about talking to people about their TOS
violations and reverting bans if necessary [3].

[1] [http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/tech/web/hugo-awards-gaiman-
us...](http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/04/tech/web/hugo-awards-gaiman-
ustream/index.html) [2] [http://www.destiny.gg/n/own3d-tv-a-beginners-guide-
to-being-...](http://www.destiny.gg/n/own3d-tv-a-beginners-guide-to-being-an-
asshole/) [3]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bqum7/just...](http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1bqum7/just_a_warning_twitchtv_appears_to_be_having_some/)
*

* Random link I found by looking for twitch.tv restoring accounts. I know there have ones where it wasn't twitch.tv's fault including recently a DOTA 2/SC2 caster, I just can't remember where he posted his stuff.

~~~
nolok
> have abysmally poor performance in many areas of the world

Twitch in europe still sometimes have horrible performance too. I don't know
if this is a peering issue to french ISP or something, but every major
tournament I watch I have to use 240p at some point or another because it lags
like hell. And everytime you mention it being in their chat or reddit, you get
a swarm of users telling you "no it works for me", "it's probably your
bandwidth", ...

I was sad when own3d closed because they always had great performance for me,
some people said "but they suck in country X" but hey, that's exactly like
twitch for me.

Worst part is, I would glady have suscribed to tons of "720p for paying users
only" starcraft 2 content if it was working.

~~~
emmett
Yeah, this is rough for us. We want perfect global service and don't have it.
There are issues in many locales, mostly because of last-mile delivery.

We're doubling EU capacity now, because every time we add capacity we grow
until it's all used up. Which is no compensation to you, I realize, but that's
what's going on.

(I'm the CEO of Twitch)

~~~
akama
This is off topic, but do you think a competitor for Twitch TV would be good
for the industry as a whole and grow the market in terms of professional video
gamers and tournaments beyond what Twitch could do alone?

~~~
emmett
No business really wants a competitor. And I think we're working pretty hard
to grow the industry regardless.

However, I recognize long term what's good for the world in general is
competition, so all I have to say is: bring it on :-)

------
LandoCalrissian
I think we should take a step back for a second and remember that before
Twitch it was largely impossible to turn video game skills into a paying
career. Now many top players are able to finance their lives while still
concentrating on their game. There are of course kinks that need to be worked
out, but now you at least have one option, before you had zero.

~~~
ilink
There were other services before twitch. Before it was shut down, Own3d tv
provided a decent income for a few streamers.

~~~
_Caspian
The thing with Own3d was that for the most part its streaming service simply
did not match that of Twitch. The layout and mobile support was a bit better
(streams that used Own3d were far more convenient to access since they played
from the browser), but the quality was lacking. Twitch, on the other hand, has
focused on what matters: the stream quality. Now that there layout has been
updated, they would have smoked own3d even more IMO.

------
SG-
While competition is always good, this piece seems rather one sided, where's
Twitch's comments? It sounds like someone got banned from Twitch for doing
something wrong.

Some examples I've seen lately:

-twitch streamer pretending to be paralyzed asking for donations and getting his account banned when he was caught walking on his stream.

-twitch user asking his viewers to DDoS someone he thinks is trying to DDoS him.

-various twitch users showing porn on their streams.

All of these users have gotten banned while the one asking for a DDoS got a
one month ban.

------
joesunga
Twitch is definitely doing something right. Non-mainstream sports should
definitely see what Twitch has done with the gaming world and try to do the
same with their perspective sports. ESPN does a great job covering the
mainstream sports, and they have yet to capture the secondary sports market.
Seems like an opportunity for someone to do.

------
baddox
Are there any similar services with terms that _don't_ allow arbitrary
termination?

~~~
schiang
check out gxstream

------
mpgjon
Hi All, this is a conversation near and dear to my heart, as we've been
working on building a Twitch competitor for nearly two years. We're very close
to having a finished product, but as we've all seen with Own3d (and many other
video platforms over the years); it's take a fair amount of capital to
actually launch and sustain a viable business in this space.

We've thought long and hard about bootstrap launching, but we've decided that
route simply doesn't allow us to offer the level of service we think you
deserve.

To those who think that game streaming is a goldmine of cash, I can
confidently say to you that it is not. It's a high-volume, low margin business
at this point. There are a few who make some cash.

But most of that is a loss leader for another product. Like Riot Games - think
their eSports division makes any net profit? Or do you think it's mostly an
advertisement that drives players to LOL?

There IS opportunity here, and an opportunity that can be good for many, as
opposed to the few, but it takes a lot more than just throwing up a pre-roll
video ad in front of your livestream.

That's one reason we're working on some really innovative ways to help engage
audiences and leverage expanded types of business models with your channels.

At any rate, happy to dive into the conversation further if anyone is
interested.

We've also launched an online petition to help us get the attention of other
venture cap and private equity investors; since this has been part of our
battle for the last year.

If you really want to see another competitor in the space, help us prove the
market to a generation of people (financiers) who do not understand game
streaming at all.

[http://www.change.org/petitions/vc-s-private-equity-and-
ange...](http://www.change.org/petitions/vc-s-private-equity-and-angel-
investors-fund-gxstream)?

Thanks for your support!

------
methehack
Now if only I could live stream myself watching movies... Or coding... :)

~~~
SolarNet
Notch does pretty well at attracting viewers when he codes live.

------
feronull
own3d.tv was a good competitor and they failed to be profitable

~~~
aiiane
Except for the part where own3d was a terrible entity to do business with as a
streamer (routinely late on payouts, etc).

------
clobber
Putting aside the fact that articles on Business Insider are extremely
sensationalized, what about Youtube or Ustream? It really wouldn't take much
for Youtube to implement the rest of the features Twitch has.

------
artus
This is THE thing that governments should solve.

It should be illegal for companies to refuse service to anyone or offer them
worse terms that someone they never did business with.

Even more generally, it should be illegal to ban users from any service, and
censor public speech in any way, even on private forums.

~~~
EvanKelly
Are you suggesting that using a company's hosted product should be a right?

~~~
artus
Yes, if they are offering it to the general public.

~~~
EvanKelly
Federal case law protects the rights of people to refuse service based on
protecting business interests. LegalZoom has a nice blog post on it [0]. Unruh
Civil Rights Law does prevent arbitrary discrimination though.

[0]: [http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-
se...](http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service)

