
The Year of Dressing Formally (2008) - keiferski
http://chronicle.com/article/The-Year-of-Dressing-Formally/45940/
======
mindcrime
FWIW, wearing a suit (in the modern "business suit" sense of term) isn't
technically "formal" dress. Heck, it isn't even semi-formal. Semi-formal would
be a tuxedo (for men), and formal wear would be "morning dress" or "white
tie".[1]

"Business suits" fall into the category of "lounge suit" which is considered
informal dress.[2]

[1]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_wear>

[2]: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lounge_suit>

~~~
jamesaguilar
In the US, black tie is the highest level of formality that most people are
ever likely to encounter. This requires a tuxedo (or, on the more casual level
of black tie, an all black suit, white shirt, and black tie). Nothing is
"technically" formal, since there is no defining body that lays down the
specification of the word with the authority to enforce that specification.
Like most non-technical language, it is a target that moves with the times. If
someone says they went to a formal event in the U.S., most of the time it will
mean they wore a tuxedo without tails.

~~~
mindcrime
I still want one of those tail-coats though.. and an opera scarf. Just because
they look awesome. :-)

~~~
jamesaguilar
I would never discourage you from such a pursuit. I would also love to see
someone pull off a full cloak and mantle outside of Game of Thrones. I doubt I
will live to see that day, but it would be incredible.

~~~
MartinCron
Wearing a black wool overcoat over a full suit isn't the same thing as a cloak
and mantle, but it's close.

Living in Seattle helps.

~~~
tjr
Peter Norvig:
[http://pn.smugmug.com/Family/Peter/i-qG4SMC9/1/M/nutcracker-...](http://pn.smugmug.com/Family/Peter/i-qG4SMC9/1/M/nutcracker-M.jpg)

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keiferski
I find it amusing how people want beautiful architecture, good weather, nice
greenery, and so on, but don't make the next step and want people (including
themselves) to dress better. Clothes are just another facet of visual culture.

That's how you get tourists with sweatpants and fanny packs outside the
Florence Duomo.

~~~
sliverstorm
Personally I suspect the disconnect centers around utility. Beautiful
architecture can be beautifully functional too. Good weather is pretty, and
also comfortable. Greenery is pretty, and cleans the air.

Semi-formal and formal wear are practically the antithesis of functional and
comfortable.

Personally, I have been making an effort to dress up a step or two, but I have
to balance this against carrying more changes of clothes for my various
activities outside of work.

~~~
grimlck
If your suit isn't comfortable, then you are wearing the wrong size and should
get it tailored.

~~~
stouset
Cost of t-shirt: $15. Cost of perfectly-tailored suit: $x.

Solve for `x < 20`.

~~~
overgryphon
If it is appropriate for you to wear a suit for an occasion (outside of
church, weddings, and funerals), then you are likely making enough from the
position to pay for the suit.

~~~
Fishkins
This doesn't apply to me, but couldn't this be a catch-22? To get a job/social
status where you're making good money, you need to get a suit, but you need
the money for a suit in order to get that job.

Also, you could just be averse to a perceived waste of money, even if you
could afford it (my case).

~~~
sliverstorm
It isn't a catch-22 so much- you don't need to be making banker money to dress
like a banker, so you can climb the ladder over time.

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atourgates
"One day you put on a tie, the next day you are driving a Hummer and voting
Republican."

My official nomination for quote of the day.

~~~
mturmon
For tomorrow, perhaps this:

"Among other things, Mr. Flusser has led me to discover the value of the male
garter for holding up slouchy socks."

~~~
jacquesm
KISS: Just get better socks.

~~~
mturmon
No can do. I already purchased garter-buckle polishing paste, so I'm
committed.

~~~
npsimons
Sunk cost fallacy; but hey, if you need another hobby . . .

------
basseq
I wear suits at work fairly often; it depends on the client and if I'm
interacting externally often in a given week (month). I like wearing a suit: I
have an enhanced sense of professionalism and self-confidence when I'm dressed
to the nines.

I'm not a developer or in "tech" in the pure sense, and I know this depends on
the "culture", but I'm also on the East Coast and a bunch of our devs have Bow
Tie Tuesday and really get into it. May be a geographic thing as well: I'm as
like as not to wear dark jeans, nice shoes, a button-down, and a blazer on
weekends.

And it isn't cheap. If you shop around, you can find a reasonable suit for
under $500, which is still a fair amount of t-shirts and hoodies. However, the
key to dress clothes more so than quality is _fit_ —you should have all your
suits tailored to fit you, and that's another $100 or so between jacket,
pants, etc.

~~~
nja
At a former job of mine, we used to have "Formal Friday." Soon enough, some
started to attend "Flannel Friday" instead and it became quite the office-
dividing phenomenon. Regardless, it can be quite fun and effective to have
informally-defined clothing days. Gives people a nice chance too try out new
pieces and styles.

------
bcbrown
The article reminded me of a quote by Heinlein I recently came across:

'Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear.
Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub
together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naïve, the unsophisticated
deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn
to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into
machinery that does not work too well at best.'

~~~
qzxt
So basically, we need to engage in superficial nonsense, because people are so
immature that they can't settle their differences amicably? I'll make sure to
teach my child that.

~~~
bcbrown
That's exactly the same thing you're teaching your child when you tell them
not to point and say "Why is that man so fat?".

I usually wear tees and jeans, but I recognize that formal wear has a place.

I'm surprised you made such a snarky response, when you said something very
similar in another thread:

"I think, that as techies, we are in a unique situation, as far as
intellectual development is concerned. The vast majority of the population
can't appreciate technical phenomena because it is culturally viewed as "too
hard" or "robotic" or "blah blah, boring". _We, OTOH, actively refuse to
engage with humanistic pursuits, but not out of any perceived difficulty so
much as discomfort with the pretensions that come with "cultured society"._ "

~~~
qzxt
So you're comparing common decency and common sense to overbearing vanity
_imposed_ on people? If I remark about someone's weight to demean them, that's
simply dick behavior. Wearing whatever the hell you like is not. Now imposing
that one may be somehow inferior for not paying an exorbitant amount of
attention to dress (for vanity, no less), that's dick behavior - which was the
crux of OP's comment.

And please, tell me how "if you strip away the pretensions from these things,
more people would take to them" is the same as "the pretentiousness is
necessary and the untraveled, uncultured, blah, blah, don't understand that,
because, you know, uncultured".

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cmbaus
I just wish more American businessmen would wear decent shoes, such as
bluchers or oxfords by Alden or Allen Edmonds, so I don't have to see anymore
rubber soled, bicycle toed loafers at the airport:
<http://instagram.com/p/ZbdZfMsM4G/>

~~~
davidw
People wear all kinds of silly fashions here in Italy, which is pretty much
the fashion capital of the world. Some of them may be well made, name-brand
silly fashions, but they certainly look odd 5 years out from when they were
'in'.

I'm with Zuckerberg, and Jobs with his 'uniform' on this one: most of that
junk is a complete waste of your time. The only winning move is not to play.
You don't have to wear just sweatshirts and jeans, but pick stuff you like and
get on with life and stop worrying about it.

~~~
dsirijus
Mimicry has its place for those who haven't succeeded globally by the age
you're supposed to start wearing formal, or at least "decent" clothes, like
Zuckerberg and Jobs did.

~~~
mindcrime
_by the age you're supposed to start_

"supposed to"? According to why? And what gives this amorphous "they" any
standing to dictate such a thing?

Fuck that... I like to dandy it up and rock the "two and a half piece" suit
look sometimes (that is, waistcoat and - in my case - a cravat, but no outer
jacket), but I do it because I like it, not because somebody says it's what
you're supposed to do. And the rest of the time, this 40 year old sees no
reason not to wear jeans and a Twisted Sister t-shirt.

~~~
dsirijus
Why don't you put "jeans and Twisted Sister t-shirt" version on LinkedIn
profile?

In the neighbourhood I'm known as "the bathrobe guy with funny facial hair",
so I _get you_. I don't want attract people around me who will judge a book by
its covers, but majority people I interacted with are living in that cave. It
is pretty oblivious to walk around and think that your appearance doesn't
matter to substantial number of people you do business and socialize with.

If you want to leave appearance of laid-back honest doer, that's fine. Not all
people do.

~~~
mindcrime
_Why don't you put "jeans and Twisted Sister t-shirt" version on LinkedIn
profile?_

That's actually a damn good idea. The picture that is there now is just one I
picked because it's a halfway decent picture. I'm not terribly photogenic, so
I usually try to avoid having my picture taken at pretty much all costs. If I
had a good picture of myself in jeans and a T/S t-shirt, I'd switch it right
now.

As soon as I can get a new picture taken, I'll do it though.

 _It is pretty oblivious to walk around and think that your appearance doesn't
matter to substantial number of people you do business and socialize with._

Oh I don't think it doesn't matter to some people, I just try very hard not to
think about those people or their opinions. Maybe if I would "play by the
rules" more I'd be richer or more successful or whatever, but it's just not
worth it...

After all, as they say

    
    
        Getcha a 3-piece Wall Street smile and son you'll
        look just like me
        I said "Hey man, there's something that you oughta know"
        I tell ya Park Avenue leads to Skid Row.[1]
    

[1]: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrbHapH5pM>

------
jsnk
I wish I can dress nicely in suits, but I don't do it for two reasons. No one
dresses in suits in technology sector. Not even CEO. Only team that dress up
in our company is legal, and even they are on the more informal side compared
to what real formal is.

Good suits that look good are expensive. I don't want to wear daddy tier
suits, but good looking suits I've seen run well over $500.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I once worked at a place that required me to rack servers in a 3 piece suit.
Once.

~~~
zwieback
I worked for a client once (a very large logistics firm) where everyone who
isn't union had to wear suit and tie, this included all vendors. We were
testing some new equipment we built in a sorting facility without any climate
control. In July. In Orlando.

~~~
toomuchtodo
UPS?

~~~
zwieback
yup, I think they may have loosened their dress code for vendors by now

~~~
toomuchtodo
My brilliant developer co-worker worked at UPS for 8 years. Told me he had to
wear a suit to work everyday, and shave as well. Not clean shaven? You get
sent home. Not dressed correctly? You got sent home.

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orangethirty
I dress the same every day. Black t-shirt with no logo, jeans, and sneakers.
If its cold, I put on my black hoodie. That's all you will see. Nice
ocassions? My wife takes care of that. Otherwise, it's my uniform. Clothing
costs have gone down, I save time and money by not having to pick what to wear
of having to wash things in differen loads. But, I mostly do it because I'm
lazy.

~~~
13b9f227ecf0
> I mostly do it because I'm lazy.

You do realize that's exactly the impression your habit conveys, right?

~~~
orangethirty
Yes. But I'm the good kind of lazy. I choose to spend my time working on
solutions to big problems, rather than working on what shirt to wear tomorrow.
I do use different brands with different cuts and styles. Mostly because I
grab whatever is available at the store. I also only use name brands, because
the last twice as long.

It's also a sort of camouflage. I blend in very easily. I like that.

~~~
UVB-76
> I choose to spend my time working on solutions to big problems, rather than
> working on what shirt to wear tomorrow.

It worries me that so many hackers use the delusion of "solving big problems"
to justify their often self-destructive lifestyles.

~~~
orangethirty
Why is this self-destructive? Explain.

------
ryguytilidie
I don't want to belittle the author too much, but when I think about the way
my time is spent, there is no way in the world thinking about clothes this
much is worth that amount of time.

This does, however, remind me of one of my favorite scenes from the wire:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJn-9TP7uUM>

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echohack
> But I found that a higher level of formality improved my students' learning.
> My larger classes ran more smoothly.

This is the crux of the article, and he provides no proof to back it up.

The article says that this is an "experiment", but how did the professor log
his activities? How did he measure the change in his student's perception? How
did he isolate the variables of his own bias vs. the impact of new clothes vs.
the impact of formal clothes?

My personal opinion is that fashion is a gigantic waste of time. In any and
all venues. Clothing should be first and foremost for utility. Part of that
utility is creating a personal brand, which the author has stumbled upon here
in his "experiment".

While I'm not a fan, Steve Jobs had a great outlook on this, and is well known
by his jeans-and-turtleneck look. This is an amazing insight into clothes in
my opinion: Jobs found an outfit that worked, and then simplified everything
in his life related to clothing. Image how easy laundry, the decision on what
to wear for the day, moving, and ownership of clothes would be if you had a
single, standard type of clothing to wear? Imagine how much easier it is to
standardize social interactions with other people around you? You'll never
have to worry about wearing 'nice' clothes again, because ALL your clothes are
exactly the same.

~~~
jamesaguilar
You are aware that words have various meanings, right? This guy is not talking
about an experiment in the formal, scientific sense of the word. Also, you are
incorrect about whether this is the crux of the article. As you can clearly
see from how much time is spent on each part, this is merely a happy side
effect to what was a personal development for him.

> My personal opinion is that fashion is a gigantic waste of time. In any and
> all venues.

I'm not sure what you mean by waste of time. Do you mean it in the sense of,
"Not something I would prefer to do?" Or do you mean it in the sense of,
"Ineffective for all purposes?" One of these two meanings is demonstrably
false.

> While I'm not a fan, Steve Jobs had a great outlook on this, and is well
> known by his jeans-and-turtleneck look.

I think Ryan Gosling's character in Crazy, Stupid, Love had a great outlook on
Steve Jobs' outlook on fashion. "Hold on, are you the billionaire owner of
Apple Computer? No? Then you've got no right to wear New Balance sneakers,
ever." <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZwjcpEEkPs>

------
Strilanc
The title reminds me of pg's post[1] from 2005 that starts with "Suits make a
corporate comeback" as an example of PR.

1: <http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html>

------
mediumdave
I have a hard time seeing formal clothing as anything other than an attempt to
advertise an elevated social status. This seems to me to be at odds with the
desire to create an egalitarian society.

~~~
anchorsteam
Then again, flip-flops on a man in long pants is pretentious. If the only
winning move is not to play then not playing is an attempt to "win".

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guard-of-terra
Clothing is boring. It's something you have to do, as opposed to what you want
to be doing.

Unless it's a T-shirt with some image that relates to your personality.

I'll pay for a service where I can dump my clothes and they'll produce
identical new and fitted items.

~~~
keiferski
Or you know, it's an art and a hobby that people other than you enjoy.

~~~
guard-of-terra
I have nothing against that. Some people collect postage stamps, some play a
tube, some dress.

------
DanielBMarkham
Very nicely done. Benton has a great voice and style. Loved the piece. I also
made some additions to my Amazon wish list!

The social engineering aspect of dressing formally was especially interesting.
By dressing formally in formal class, then "dressing down" for one-on-ones, he
was able to put students much more at ease. (And they also starting emailing
him beginning with "Dear Professor" instead of "Hey")

I'm not a suit guy by any means, but in some situations this life choice could
make a lot of sense.

------
rokhayakebe
Many people pretend to not care about their clothes, or the way they look, so
long as they look clean, and decent. The truth is a man who wears a nice
shirt, pants, and shoes will simply not want to go back if he is confident
about it. And for your information, you look much much better if you sport
nice, fitted clothes.

~~~
sliverstorm
_The truth is a man who wears a nice shirt, pants, and shoes will simply not
want to go back if he is confident about it._

The truth is I am having a difficult time fitting nice shirts, pants, and
shoes into my lifestyle. Less because I am lazy, and more because boulders and
bicycle cranks and dirt are hard on nice clothes.

~~~
rokhayakebe
If you are dealing with boulders and dirt on your way to work, then you should
find a different path, or consider ride-sharing etc... But I believe you can
still ride in style.

------
ogdoad
Now that all the hard problems of humanity have been solved, tenured
professors may return to more pressing matters -- with style. Splendid!

------
maxmax
Pics or it didn't happen.

