
Mozilla boss Brendan Eich resigns after gay marriage storm - pierre-renaux
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26868536
======
betterunix
This is just sad. Gay marriage has literally _nothing_ to do with Mozilla's
work or mission, and there has not been any evidence that Eich was using his
position at Mozilla to advance some kind of anti-gay agenda. This is basically
the definition of thoughtcrime -- Eich did nothing wrong other than to have an
opinion and donate a bit of his own money to a cause he supports.

It was not all that long ago that taking a pro-gay-rights position might have
led to this kind of retaliation. If you are one of the people who rallied
against Mozilla, just remember that political winds can shift and that in a
few decades you might be the one receiving this treatment.

~~~
benched
Today, I learned just how trivial people believe gay rights are. I'm actually
surprised by it. That's much sadder to me.

~~~
tptacek
See, this comment is why we need to do a better job of keeping stories like
this off the front page. There's nothing in the comment you replied to that
indicates any cavalierness about "gay rights", and yet, there it is: the nasty
comment accusing another HN user of bad faith. Right on cue.

~~~
enko
> There's nothing in the comment you replied to that indicates any
> cavalierness about "gay rights"

You missed the point. The GP's comment, by dismissing gay right's relevance to
mozilla, implicitly treated the matter in a "cavalier" manner.

Let's do a little find/replace to prove the point. Eich donated $1000 to the
KKK. The GP notes that lynching niggers has nothing to do with the day to day
operations of Mozilla, so what's the big deal. The parent is dismayed by how
trivial black person's rights are considered by HN. What's your comment,
tptacek?

~~~
tptacek
You don't even know if you disagree with this person about marriage equality,
but here we are talking about the KKK.

~~~
enko
My opinion is irrelevant. And if your point had any validity, it would
transfer right across.

You're changing the topic - you know I'm right. Take it to heart, please.
These things are important.

------
adrusi
On the one hand I'm happy, because it will end the political controversy that
has resulted in a blow against Mozilla, but on the other, I feel kind of bad.
I mean sure, the guy is a massive prick for donating to support Prop 8, but
that honestly is no where near as relevant to his position as CEO of a
nonprofit software company as it was made to be. The guy has contributed a lot
to his field, and based on my impressions, has been very valuable to Mozilla
as an employee in the past. I fully believe that he would have been capable of
moving Mozilla in the right direction had it not been for this scandal. With
his resignation, Mozilla could end up with a CEO who hinders them instead.

~~~
ps4fanboy
Why does being against gay marriage make you a "massive prick". If people for
gay marriage wasnt a minority it would be legal already, are you saying that
the majority of the population are massive pricks, and should be ostracized
from their jobs?

EDIT: here comes the leftist downvote brigade, the sad thing is I support gay
marriage, you people should really grow a backbone.

~~~
fennecfoxen
FYI, the radical American left's approach to public policy is that you should
wage total warfare on everyone who disagrees with you, and attempt to punish
them in any way possible. Deny them business, deny any notion that they are
intelligent or decent human beings, et cetera. There is no room for pluralism,
and intellectual honesty is of secondary importance at best.

In this case, Brendan Eich is a bad person. Clearly his donation means that he
is incapable of interacting with anyone who is gay or any of his political
enemies in a civil manner, and will go out of his way to marginalize their
contributions to Mozilla. Therefore we should attempt to punish him by kicking
him out of his job.

Postscript. No representations are herein made about the non-radical American
left, other lefts, the American right, other rights, the existence or
nonexistence of a radical center, the merits of any policy proposal of any
group including the left (radical or otherwise), et cetera.

Post-postscript: See also this comment, wherein a HN user argues that we
should start boycotting any company who employs anyone who voted for Prop 8.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7470443](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7470443)

~~~
saryant
I've been on the receiving end of this due to who my father is. When I was a
kid, he was in charge of PR at a Bay Area oil refinery.

\- Activists attacking him during city council meetings and pushing for his
termination

\- An orthodontist refused to take my brother and I on as patients because he
disagreed with my father's job

\- Various, err, _packages_ left on our doorstep

\- Unprofessionalism amongst some teachers, except when they needed a donation
from the refinery. More than one snide comment.

Ironically, one of my best friends was the daughter of a lead activist in
town. That led to some awkward moments getting dropped off to hang out.

~~~
stcredzero
_\- An orthodontist refused to take my brother and I on as patients because he
disagreed with my father 's job_

Sounds a lot like things some in the religious right do that the left objects
to.

------
ludicast
I'd like to reiterate that Obama was against gay marriage during 2008 and
California, the most liberal state ever, voted against it. A lot changes in 6
years(1).

I'm a democrat in support of gay marriage because citizenship, benefits, and
filing taxes jointly should be granted regardless of sexuality.

But this witchhunt is ridiculous. However, a shitty language like js being
necessary to deal with every day, that is unforgivable.

1 - The male-born transgender Fallon Fox is hailed as a gay hero for fighting
again natural-born women. I don't agree with this (male bone structure, went
through puberty as a male), and I definitely can't see this happening in 2008
for sure.

------
ps4fanboy
I believe in gay marriage but I also believe in peoples right to oppose it,
this whole thing is shameful.

~~~
batiudrami
I don't think that at any point Eich did not have the right to hold his
opinion, just as people and companies have the right to choose not to
associate with those who hold those views. Mozilla, and those (internal and
external to Mozilla) who are calling for his resignation are not the
government are not opressing him in any way.

Whether or not this is the right call for Mozilla is up for debate, but
whether his rights were infringed certainly is not.

~~~
ben336
"people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with those who
hold those views" If his beliefs are religiously motivated, actually companies
do not have the right to discriminate based on that. And imagine a modified
version of that statement used to justify forcing out a gay CEO: "people and
companies have the right to choose not to associate with people who believe in
and act upon homosexual beliefs"

~~~
batiudrami
Fair agument, I did not think that through. Mozilla is, of course, required to
comply with any and all anti-discriminiation laws which apply.

However, would I be correct in saying that his rights are not being infringed
by having people (both internal and external to Mozilla) call for his
resignation because of his beliefs, and his contributions to causes which are
actively damaging to some of those in the community? Especially in the case of
Mozilla, who rely heavily on volunteers, the opinions of those connected but
not necessarily employed by Mozilla should be important.

------
dmur
Thread for the announcement has been buried for some reason, but it's here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7526619](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7526619)

------
reuven
I think that it's a shame that Eich had to resign. And I say this as someone
who is very happy to see the winds changing in the US (and elsewhere), and who
thinks that it's a good thing that gay marriage is becoming the norm and
accepted law.

Mozilla is a non-profit. It's normal and expected for a non-profit to have
officers and directors who agree with the stance of the non-profit. I would
expect the head of a vegetarian organization to be a vegetarian. I would
expect the member of a religious organization to be an observant member of
that religion. And I would expect that the head of a labor union patronize
union shops more than non-union ones.

So if Eich had taken a public stand against open-source software, or against
Web standards, then it would be totally and utterly reasonable for him to
resign, or to be forced out.

But Eich didn't take a stand against things that are at the core of Mozilla's
mission. Rather, he had a personal opinion -- one which I don't share -- that
used to be mainstream, and is increasingly seen as out of the mainstream, at
least in large portions of the US and many other liberal democracies.

I think that it's unfair, and even a bit dangerous, for him to be forced out
because of a personal political opinion.

If the next head of Mozilla gets up and says that he thinks it's OK for women
to have abortions, would it be reasonable for them to be forced out? After
all, there are many millions of people who feel that abortion is murder. (I
don't concur with this opinion, but I know that it exists.)

If the next head of Mozilla donates money to anti-Obamacare ads, saying that
things should go back to the way they were a few years ago, you could make a
pretty good argument in favor of saying that this opinion will effectively
condemn many people to death, or perhaps crippling poverty.

I don't think that we want this to happen. We don't want CEOs to be ousted
because they have political opinions which reflect a minority.

I've often engaged in political discussions and debates with clients, some of
whom hold opinions that I find completely and utterly wrong-headed, and
perhaps even dangerous. But I'm not going to stop working with them because
they hold different opinions. Rather, I'm going to be professional and work
with them -- and perhaps even continue to debate them, so that they'll see my
side of the argument.

Eich believes that gay marriage is wrong. I believe that he's wrong about
that, and history is increasingly against his opinion. But his opinion doesn't
have to do with Mozilla's mission.

By capitulating to public opinion over Eich's personal politics, Mozilla has
opened Pandora's box. I worry that people who want to become the heads of
major companies and organizations will keep their opinions and donations to
themselves, for fear of eventually being condemned for those opinions. And
that can only be bad for democracy and openness.

~~~
Jugurtha
Amen to that. I think it's a real shame, too. I'm really pissed about it in
the sense that here we are in an era where you are not allowed to have your
opinions on anything anymore.

You are anti-gay ? You're a homophobic biggot and you should die. That's the
gist of the message this sends. What if he is homophobic ? Who cares and what
does that have anything to do with Mozilla ?

People demanding his head with the argument that it's intolerable not to
tolerate difference don't know the disservice they did to their movements,
because after all, they were intolerant for his difference too.

Now, you are not allowed to be "anti-gay". You are not even allowed not to be
"pro-gay". You're not pro-gay ? What an ignorant biggot.

You're not even allowed to be without an opinion and not give a fuck about
what people do with their bodies. Nooo ! You _have_ to agree, or else you're
homophobic.

Is this freedom of expression ? Is this the liberty these people are calling
for ?

And this climate pushes you to say things like what you said, as a disclaimer,
that you have gay friends, that you're not against it. It tells you a lot
about the violence of their opinion.

What did he do that was illegal ? There was a project that some people
supported and some were against. The pro-gay marriage lobbied and the anti-gay
lobbied, or don't they have that right ?

Pro-gay donated money, too, and shook hands, and pulled strings, etc.

This is akin to (an online debate isn't one until Hitler is brought up) ban
Mein Kampf under the argument that Hitler did what he did. What if I fucking
want to read it ? Am I a Nazi for that ? What if I like his paintings ? Are we
not allowed to think on our own, or are people shareholders of our very own,
deepest beliefs ?

It's sad.

That's also like that Abercrombie and Fitch CEO who was attacked for what he
did and say. What if I'm the CEO of a clothes company and I don't fat people
to wear my shoes ? What the ____do you care ! Don 't buy my clothes and case
closed ! And the only reason you'd be pissed off is if you were fat, in which
case you wouldn't be able to buy the frigging clothes in the first place, and
you wouldn't buy them if they issued fat sized clothes anyway, so why the
fuss.

It's a really pathetic moment, people.

~~~
ryanwhitney
What? No one is talking about any restrictions of free speech. Nor any
statements you've mentioned.

You're allowed to take any of those stances. Equally as you're allowed to
bitch on the internet regarding the fact that he paid to revoke the rights of
others. (And yes, they were deemed "constitutional rights" before being
revoked.)

Unfortunately for Eich, his opinions currently seem to be on the wrong side of
history.

------
vain
If OKCupid are so against Brendan for his stance on gay marriage, they need to
stop using javascript, for Brendan Eich invented javascript.

~~~
nathancahill
Let's play a game called Name that Fallacy!

------
foolinaround
from his earlier interview, it definitely seems like he was forced out, and
resigning was just to save face. Values and ideas may change, but seems like
the witch-hunt will be around to stay... Will he continue to be CTO at
Mozilla?

~~~
kylec
No, he's leaving Mozilla [https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-
mission/](https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-mission/)

------
jonah
Mob rule wins the day. Sigh.

------
ielshareef
Would there be such outrage over Eich's resignation had he donated to KKK or
an anti-Semite group? Just curious.

------
cessor
People change. I believe that he could be a good person in a role for Mozilla,
despite being against gay marriage. The fact that he steps back from this
important role both shows that either Mozilla or Brendan himself are sensitive
to the topic. I would like to believe that Brendan has changed (some people
tend to do that over the years) and resings as a sign of admitting that he was
wrong about the gay marriage thing. This makes the whole situation kind of
paradox - him stepping back indicates a kind of sensitivity that I would like
in a leader for an organisation like this.

~~~
hellbanTHIS
I'm getting the feeling he really did voluntarily step down to save the
company. But if he wanted to fight it he might have a good case, as per
California Labor Code - Section 1101:

>No employer shall make, adopt, or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy:

>(a) Forbidding or preventing employees from engaging or participating in
politics or from becoming candidates for public office.

>(b) Controlling or directing, or tending to control or direct the political
activities or affiliations of employees.

>\- See more at:
[http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/LAB/1/d2/3/5/s1101#sthash...](http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/LAB/1/d2/3/5/s1101#sthash.uT6Lmptj.dpuf)

The other paradox is that this might do more damage to Mozilla than if he
stayed, the reaction is pretty split but a lot of people see this as an act of
cowardice on Mozilla's part. I'm personally finding it hard to respect how
they handled it.

~~~
stcredzero
But what the precedent of this event does, is drag our society one step deeper
into the idea that groups pressuring companies to do (b) is "just how things
are" in the US.

~~~
hellbanTHIS
It's even worse than that, this isn't like Bill Maher getting fired from ABC
for something he said on the air during a time of hysteria. This was something
Eich did in private six years ago which he may or may not regret, depending on
how you interpret his blog post. The precedent this sets is truly awful.

