
Build your portfolio  by working on interesting projects - coolanymous
https://zyring.com
======
bshimmin
The landing page really needs to do a much better job of explaining what this
does and who it's for, preferably with some visual examples of whatever it is
that it does viewable without a requirement for signing up.

Right now, I basically have no idea what this is - is it something like
Dribbble but for programming? Or is it more like oDesk? Who comes up with the
applications? Who does the code reviews? Et cetera. Nearly every sentence of
copy is ambiguous.

~~~
zooso
Good point. Thanks for the feedback. You really don't need to sign up to
experience what projects we offer but some stuff requires sign up as you said.
We will make sure that we remove the ambiguities and work on our copywriting.

As for your questions :

1- Experts in the field working with us have come up with Applications. We are
working with some companies so that they can put sponsored applications on our
website that they would love to see on a candidates resume. In addition, if
anyone has an idea for a project they can submit it on the project page and we
will work with them to refine it and put it there.

2- The community does the code reviews. As you said this is unclear right now
on the landing page. Basically, if there is a person who have done the project
before you with a good score, they will review the code. Reviewing someone's
code is also part of your portfolio so you get a score for doing it.

~~~
bshimmin
Thanks. There's probably a lesson here: if two paragraphs of text in a comment
on HN does a better job of explaining what your web site does than its own
landing page does, maybe your landing page needs a bit of a re-think.

~~~
zooso
lesson learned :)

~~~
PaulHoule
If there is one thing I find absolutely abundant, it is programming projects
that don't pay anything.

------
kowdermeister
At first I thought this is an article with tips to build a portfolio. Then I
thought ah, they help me publish my stuff, like dribble or behance. Then I
arrived at the node.js setup page and I closed it.

I recently started to update my GitHub profile for the same reason and created
my username.github.io page with a simple landing that summarizes my
interesting repos. My point is that the need is definitely there, but I think
the message of the site is "if you have zero imagination how to show off that
you can code, here are some projects for you".

~~~
zooso
Thats a harsh way to put it but somehow true. Its less about imagination and
more about ability.

The people who need this site the most are people who are new to programming
or don't have any university background (online courses, self taught). Unlike
you these people DO struggle starting their own project and they DO need some
help setting up their node.js environment.

The problem is that many of us who learned programming on our own have gone
through these initial struggles (although we might have forgotten it). People
who are learning online are led to believe that becoming a programmer is as
easy as taking a code academy course and when they finish the course, they
can't do much cause they have been gamified and handheld too much. Most of
these people are giving up because there is this sharp fall from finishing an
online course and becoming a 'developer'. We are trying to help these people.

Good developers are not in terrible need of a portfolio but the new ones or
the ones who are changing their career path are in need of it to actually get
a job.

~~~
kowdermeister
It feels that you want to solve multiple problems at once, not impossible, but
more complicated. There is a great leap between installing git and node.js and
writing a working, publishable project. I wish it was that easy. The site also
didn't explain the process of creating a project from start to finish. It
would be nice to see the time requirement for completing one. Is it 1 day or 1
month?

I definitely agree that there is a great drop-out among wannabees, but for
them codeacademy style portals are a better fit imho. I tried to teach my
designer girlfriend using codeacademy and it didn't go very well, but it was
probably a motivational issue. Then I showed her how to modify HTML and she is
able to update her site now without my help. So finding the sweet spot it very
hard and I feel you need to target more accurately. For example are you sure
somebody just learned about functions, for loops and arrays are OK with
command line tools and understand how GIT, Grunt, Gulp and node.js relate?

~~~
zaryaf
Thanks for your feedback! We will definitely make it our goal to provide a
better explanation of how a project will be built start to finish, and how
long it will take to build it, from the onset.

About the target audience. We actually built Zyring for people like me. I was
a PM at Microsoft who wanted to transition to a developer role. I learned
programming through self-learning (didn't follow traditional CS path) but
always found myself building things that were either insignificant or I was
handheld through the entire process so I couldn't recreate my work. As I
talked to more people, I realized that there are a lot more people like me. I
completely agree with you that we need to find that "sweet spot" where the
user (like your gf) can build a project on her own but still get the right
guidance so she doesn't get overwhelmed and lost.

I would really love to talk with you and/or your girlfriend to get your
feedback on how we can help and improve Zyring. My email is
zaryafaraj@zyring.com. Thanks!

------
jeffreyrogers
I find the focus on building portfolios frustrating. Mostly what I've seen it
accomplish is people writing dumb scripts that don't do anything particularly
useful or basic web apps that would never be useful for anything beyond the
toy case the author came up with. That's not to knock building small programs
like these to develop skills or become familiar with a new library, but it's
hardly an adequate way of showing your mastery of programming. I'd be much
more impressed by one large, interesting project than by a bunch of small,
pointless ones.

~~~
emerongi
Have you written something like that? I think programmers should have a right
to a personal life as well. My mother has never had to "build a portfolio"
outside of her job ever. Whatever she had accomplished in her professional
career shows how skilful she is. Yet you're probably lazy if you don't go home
and start churning out code, am I right?

~~~
zooso
Co-founder here. I am completely agreeing with you and I am one of the people
who hates the culture you mentioned.

We created this website for people who are new to programming or people
changing careers. People who have not taken a university path (taken online
courses, self taught) but find it difficult to get a job because they don't
have anything on their resume. They find it intimidating to contribute to open
source projects and don't really know how to start a project on their own.

Makes sense ?

~~~
memonkey
I am one of those self-taught no degree developers currently building my own
portfolio. It definitely is intimidating to contribute to open source projects
not to mention learning the projects/technology to be able to contribute. But
as for my own projects, it's increasingly discouraging to find out my ideas
have been done inside and out. I think the only thing keeping people like me
going is the passion of figuring out HOW to do it.

But then there are things like data structures and algorithms which are
backboney but wholly unnecessary unless you want to work at Google. So, that's
another thing. Because I can build a bunch of projects but what if I don't
have the data structs/algo? Or what are the projects I can accomplish that
implement those things?

~~~
zooso
I don't think anybody doing your project should discourage you. It's usually
in the process of trying to do something that has been done before that you
get an insight or think about a better way of doing it. Plus, doing things
that have been done before is a very good way to learn. Thats how in the old
days apprentices became masters.

As for the alg/ds. In my opinion, there are some fundamental things that you
need to know about DS/alg that make you a better developer. What people
usually get wrong is assuming that it is the applicability of the algorithms
or datastructure that matters ( who cares if you know about a Red/Black Tree !
) . I think its more about the patterns and the way they allow you to think.

Understanding how tree traversal is done may not be directly useful in your
work but helps you understand recursive thinking which is super important.
Knowing how QuickSort/MergeSort work doesn't have any application in real life
but makes you think about problems with a divide/conquer approach in mind
which is again super practical. You will never write a Hash/Dictionary but
knowing what is the difference between one and an array has immense
applicability on your work.

My advice to you: stay away from memorizing DS/Alg. Throw out your "cracking
the coding interview" book if you have one and pick a algorithm and
datastructure book and try to understand it. Then you can move on to solving
problems yourself and you will realize that you are a better developer for it.
Here is what I would suggest:

[http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-
comput...](http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-
science/6-006-introduction-to-algorithms-spring-2008/)
[http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/pythonds/index...](http://interactivepython.org/runestone/static/pythonds/index.html)

Of course, you don't need to know all of the stuff here :)

------
iandanforth
As someone who is hiring right now for a front-end position I really really
hope this takes off. Far too many people have no realistic or publicly
available code. Even for the back-end positions we're hiring for it would be
awesome to see a custom implementation of something like to-do app.

~~~
zooso
perfect. We would love to talk with you more to see what you will see as
valuable on the resume of a candidate. I will be really happy if you could
spare a few moments anytime you are free. My email is alif@zyring.com

------
hoboon
I've noticed people will look at it if you really have their attention, say an
employer who is inclined to give you a job.

Having a site talk about requirements is useful. A lot of the times I don't
know about features or needs in a system until someone told me.

20-30 minutes talking with an engineer and whiteboarding a solution to a site
helped me along immensely towards a solution that had more meat on it.

------
clyfe
Work for free and don't get paid, because, hey! You'll get tons of experience
and build your portfolio. Now on a crowd-source scale! Sucker!

~~~
woah
I'm guessing you are someone who does not enjoy programming? Did your parents
pressure you to take it up to have a well paying job?

~~~
Iftheshoefits
There is not one single other engineering profession I'm aware of that thinks
a "portfolio" consisting of past employment is insufficient, or that has
academic trivia questions figure as largely in their interview process.

To me a request for portfolio contents beyond the contents of a resume is an
indicator that the would-be employer is interested in people who are easily
exploited or cajoled into working lots of unpaid overtime, or else that they
don't actually trust the candidate's resume; both of these are negative
indicators. A heavy focus on DS/algorithms for _engineering_ positions is an
indicator that the employer either doesn't understand the difference between
academics/theory and engineering or, worse, thinks the latter is trivial,
irrelevant, or otherwise beneath CS; both also negative indicators.

~~~
zaryaf
what you are saying is relatively true for developers with some experience,
especially engineers. This is not true for people coming out of online
learning programs who know the basics of coding but haven't built anything
significant. For these people, the resume is empty so building a portfolio of
significant projects is a way to become a developer. It is as much self-
serving as it is serving the needs of employers.

~~~
Iftheshoefits
That's true, and it is a case that seems to be unique to the software field as
far as engineering is concerned. I'm also unaware of any other engineering
profession in which such shallow education and experience would be considered
acceptable in any case. Usually a four-year degree from an accredited
engineering school is a minimum requirement for even entry-level work. In
these cases references and some casual "technical" discussions (but nothing
like the pedantic Algo/DS grilling in a software interview) in the interviews
will determine suitability, and the individual will effectively be considered
a trainee for a time. That is also absent in the software industry, generally.

------
G650
Very similar to [https://code4startup.com/](https://code4startup.com/) but for
a slightly different purpose.

~~~
zaryaf
Hi this is Zarya, one of the co-founder of Zyring. I have actually used
Code4startup and we are much different. Code4Startup helps you clone websites
for the purpose of literally getting a website up for your startup. At Zyring,
our goal is to get people to build applications from scratch so they can add
it to their portfolio and get a job. That's why we put so emphasis on code
reviews and feedback.

If you have used code4startup, I would love to talk to you about your goals
and if there is anyway we can help you. My email is zaryafaraj@zyring.com.
Thanks!

------
zo1
Quick Q, probably not something you were expecting.

But, how do you, at least internally, pronounce your name/URL?

ZeeRing? Like "He Ring"

ZaiRing? like "Hi Ring"

ZiRing? Like "Zirring".

~~~
zooso
It's Zirring. It means 'smart' in Kurdish.

------
dotdi
Saw Angular, closed tab.

~~~
zaryaf
hey I'm one of the cofounders of Zyring. Would love to know why you closed the
tab when seeing Angular. Are there other technologies that you're interested
in and think we should cover?

------
gfreeman
Hmm... there doesn't seem to be anything there
[http://i.imgur.com/2a9kUiu.png](http://i.imgur.com/2a9kUiu.png)

I like the idea and aim of the site but was it really necessary to make it
completely unviewable without JavaScript? What ever happened to progressive
enhancement?

~~~
firasd
Related: I signed up but saw all the web projects are dependent on Angular or
React. I understand that these technologies are good to be familiar with for
making a portfolio these days but they're not for me; not what I want to spend
my time on.

I did join the waiting list for their yet-to-launch iOS projects though.

~~~
zooso
Perfect. We would love to talk to you about what you would find useful for you
on the iOS projects. We have a bunch of projects for iOS but are in the
process of refining them. I would be super happy if you emailed me at
alif@zyring.com

BTW, the person who is defining the iOS projects is one of the devs on
Microsoft Office for iOS and Mac (which ironically is the most complex app for
ios).

