
The Sloppy Battle for the Future of Craft Rye - danso
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-whistlepig-craft-rye/
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JasonCEC
I actually work in this industry[0], with a few of the major brands, and...
it's 80% marketing.

Unlike beer, where smaller is often "better" (as in more flavorful, more
innovative, more unique, more interesting - but definitely not more
consistent);

Most of the new "distilleries" are actually non-distilling bottlers - simply
taking (and sometimes ageing) distilled spirits from MGP[2] (the former
Seagram Distillery).

Consider - how can a ~5 year old brand have bottled and distributed 15 year
old or 25 year old spirits?

This is a real problem in the industry, as 1) it's false marketing, and 2) the
equipment needed to make great spirits is not nearly as affordable, and is
much more a function of scale, then it is in other industries. So the craft
distillery with the 12 foot still and 5 plates really can't compete with the
large distillery with a 35 foot still and 15 plates (that's the level of
control they have over their process and thus their flavor profile).

And thus, with these "fake" craft spirits - it's the consumers (you and I)
that get screwed - we pay extra for a fake premium brand available for much
less - the identical spirit, on the same shelf, with the same flavor profile,
just under a different name.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and in case anyone is interested: my company helps real distilleries,
breweries, and coffee / chocolate makers, optimize their flavor profiles and
consistency through predictive manufacturing[1]. Feel free to reach out![3]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[0] www.Gastrograph.com

[1] off by one error

[2] [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-
craft-...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/28/your-craft-
whiskey-is-probably-from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana.html)

[3] jasonceo [at] gastrograph [dot] com

~~~
TylerE
Then you have brands like High West, that are doing some interesting things
(for instance their "Double Rye" is a blend of a young LDI-sourced rye and a
16 year old Barton sourced rye - also note that they are very open and
forthcoming about what they source and from where).

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tptacek
High West is _very_ hit-or-miss --- I actually don't like _most_ of what they
sell --- but I think they're pretty honest. Midwinter is probably in my top 5
American whiskies. (If you know something in the same style that's better,
please correct me).

It's unfortunate that with US whiskey, you really need to know brands. You can
tell people how to shop for Scotch with just descriptions --- you like smoke
you buy an Islay single malt, you like character you buy something that says
"first fill sherry cask". The US market is trickier.

And even more unfortunately, the most important advice you can give someone
shopping for US whiskey is: _ignore entirely the concept of "craft" whiskey_.
The very best US stuff isn't "craft".

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Don't leave us hanging then! Top 5 American whiskies list, please?

~~~
tptacek
I haven't really thought hard about it, but Four Roses and Very Old Barton are
probably on it too.

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briancl
I haven't tried Very Old Barton... but I will.

Based on your comments here, we may like some of the same whiskies. I'll add a
few to the list:

Four Roses Small Batch 90

Blantons 93

Four Roses Single Barrel 100

If I'm making a large batch cocktail.. I go for Old Overholt. Hard to beat for
the price.

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tdumitrescu
Interesting business story. Key quote for me: “If potential investors had
known Bhakta planned to maintain control of the company in his family in
perpetuity,” Faessen and Evison state in their filing, “they either would not
have invested in WhistlePig at the same price and on the same terms or would
have declined to invest at all.”

Unrelated, but when did Bloomberg Businessweek decide to start aping Vice?
With lines like: "you’re likely to see him smirking, with a boarding school-
worthy forelock of hair and bow tie that combine to frame a perfect strike
zone for your fist" and "some special editions trade for as much as $1,000
among collectors/assholes"

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w1ntermute
> when did Bloomberg Businessweek decide to start aping Vice?

Probably shortly after they realized it brings in eyeballs.

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tptacek
_Such valuation runs counter to the beverage’s history. Unlike single-malt
scotches and other liquors, rye has been decidedly anti-aspirational—its most
common mixers were failure, disappointment, and regret. But the cyclical
nature of the Next Cool Thing to Order at a Bar has put rye in the spotlight
(it was a favorite of Don Draper), and WhistlePig is the fanciest you can buy.
"_

I mean I don't even know where to start.

I guess I'd start by pointing out that one of the most highly-regarded
whiskies in the world, and one of the hardest to get, is the Buffalo Trace
antique series Thomas Handy Sazerac rye. And Thomas Handy isn't the only
"fancy" rye you can get; besides (obviously) Saz 18, the other Buffalo antique
rye, there's also Booker's Limited Edition.

Unlike WP, which is NDP Veblen whiskey, all of those bottles are hard to get
because they are legitimately outstanding and coveted not just by assholes
(who do abound in whiskeyland) but also by people who are serious about the
spirit. They're also traceable (unlike WP and unlike Pappy or Black Maple Hill
or any of a number of other high-priced NDP whiskies) and they're gimmick-
free.

Don't want to spend $300 on a bottle? Buy Anchor's Old Potrero, which is a
_single malt_ rye from San Francisco of unassailable quality and lineage. Or
buy Few, down the street from me in Chicago; it costs half as much as Old
Potrero, is 70% rye, and is one of the best new spirits on the market ---
produced entirely in house, by a tiny operation.

I also call total horseshit on the idea that there's real merit in Beam's rye
mashbill being 100% rye. Handy is closer to 50% than 100%, and zero is the
number of reasonable people who would take a dram of WhistlePig over half a
dram of Handy.

"Double barrel". "Any longer and it tastes like sticks". Jiminy. Tell that to
the Scots. Woodford Reserve --- another brand you should trust more than
WhistlePig any day of the week --- does an experiment edition where they'll
sell you the same rye spirit aged in two different barrels, one new oak and
one old oak. You get the point just by looking at the two bottles: the old-oak
aged whiskey is light and the new oak is dark. Aging in ex-whiskey barrels
extracts very little additional flavor, because the first round of aging
strips it out. But the bottle aged in new oak is mahogany brown and full of
flavor, because there's still flavor there to extract. Switching the whiskey
to a new oak barrel halfway through the aging would _increase_ the "sticks"
flavor. But odds are, that's not what they're actually doing, because new oak,
or any barrel with real character (ask High West where to find them), is
expensive.

The rye market is rife with NDP brands marketing other people's spirit as
"craft" and somehow unique. Templeton does it do, and their uniqueness is a
fucking _chemical flavor additive_. It's all factory whiskey. That's fine!
Factories make some of the best whiskey there is. But don't pay a premium for
a bullshit marketing story. And don't ever pay extra for WhistlePig.

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boha
This was a great read about the supply side, despite the wince-worthy factual
errors.

Another great read, from the venerable David Driscoll of K&L in San Francisco,
has a lot about the demand side:
[http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-
blog/20...](http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-
blog/2016/8/29/the-basics-of-give-and-take-a-2016-kentucky-primer.html)

