
Less Turbulence on Delta Flights? - jsiminoff
https://thepointsguy.com/news/this-is-the-reason-you-arent-feeling-as-much-turbulence-on-delta-flights/
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ginkgotree
General aviation pilot here. I fly a bonanza in the flight levels regularly.
There are plenty more data sources than just PIREPS, even in general aviation.
Foreflight on an iPad, combined with and ADS-B receiver and a SirrusXM WX
subscription are all in active use in my little 40 year old airplane. I say
this as an avid Delta frequent flyer, but I highly doubt Delta's competitors
are only using PIREPS to navigate turbulence.

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bronco21016
You certainly may be correct that Delta’s competitors may be using additional
or different sources. However, there definitely is not any access to SiriusXM
WX or ADS-B weather onboard FAR 121 aircraft. Many airlines are just now
getting around to ADS-B out for compliance. When I worked for one of the
regional airlines we had just been approved for EFBs (iPads) in 2017. Point is
simply that GA is typically significantly further ahead in a lot of
technologies these days because 121 air travel has become so incredibly safe
that the FAA is very careful and methodical in approving new technology use.
That costs money and it’s only been the last 3-4 years or so that airlines
have had money to spend.

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ginkgotree
Great point. It really does amaze me that I likely use tools like precision
GPS approaches and live access to weather data more than the typical part 121
airliner. However, I do think the FAA's strategy to slowly and methodically
make changes to part 121 is valid given the safety record you cite.

It does excite me to see these things come to GA though. If you chose to use
them properly, tools like ADS-B in and inflight weather at least gives you the
option of making more informed safety decisions. But I still see too many
young CFIs teaching "buttonolgy" before good old stick and rudder. Priorities
should still be what is in the Airplane Flying Handbook: 1. Aviate, 2.
Navigate, 3. Communicate. Safety, even with all this tech, still comes down to
sound aeronautical decision making and cockpit management.

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captn3m0
Dumb question, but what does 121 mean in this context?

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bronco21016
14 CFR FAR 121 is the FAA regulations governing scheduled air carriers in the
United States.

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ayakura
This article sounds like an ad, but in any case cutting cost and achieving
higher customer satisfaction are all good things so props to Delta for that.

However, I have to wonder why the article makes it seem like only Delta is
using data for turbulence avoidance and not other big players. Is this a
relatively new thing when it comes to Big Data in airlines?

Edit: This is an ad after all

> This post contains references to products from one or more of our
> advertisers

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oliveshell
If Delta is really serious about customer satisfaction, they’ll hurry up with
the retirement of their old MD-80s (and MD-88s).

I’m hardly an aviation buff, but I’ve learned to identify these things by
their sound from inside my house, which is 20 miles from the nearest airport
(occasional departures fly over at roughly 10,000 feet).

Those old low-bypass JT8D engines make _so_ much damn low-frequency noise.
Every time I hear and feel that infrasonic rumble I think “must be an MD80”,
and sure enough, if I check Flightradar24 it’s always one of those loud
suckers, and always operated by Delta.

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hueving
Agree that the md80s are noisy monsters, but really has very little overlap
with customer satisfaction. <1% of Delta's customers are going to live close
enough to an airport with Delta mad dog departures and even fewer of them will
take noise at home into consideration for their satisfaction.

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oliveshell
True— I was sort of venting and neglected to note that it wasn’t really
related— but at the very least, I personally avoid flying Delta because it
bugs me so much. It’s perhaps a silly reason, but it’s the truth.

Just a sample size n=1 though.

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certifiedloud
As someone who holds a commercial pilots license but works in software
development, I'd love to find a hybrid job solving problems I'm aviation with
tech.

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starpilot
You probably don't. Aerospace is horribly conservative and slow, both in the
work itself and in office culture. Imagine spending an entire week checking
every calculation in a 50 page technical report. _It must be correct_ , and it
has to be that way.

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mygo
I mean, I hope people would want to do that. Otherwise the people doing it are
the ones who don't.

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athenot
I got to tour Delta's OCC (and met the same weather dude with all the
screens—nice setup). I didn't know whether their approach was unique among
airlines but I did learn that their weather modeling is indeed more accurate
than The Weather Company.

Since I was there on a calm day so the big wall screens (shown on the header
of the article) were showing a Basketball game... :)

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rwc
Delta is infamous for reporting “light chop” and seeking other flight levels.
It doesn’t just make for a more comfortable flight, it’s good for airframe
maintenance to boot.

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mastazi
Why is an advertorial with a lot of hyperbole and very little content on the
frontpage? I am an aviation enthusiast and I'm sure we could find better
sources about this subject.

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swasheck
Now if Delta could only keep their systems online to avoid ground stops. I
think it's been two of the last three Autumns that they've experienced major
outages.

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thatfrenchguy
This reads like an ad for Delta more than anything else.

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nammi
yup, they lost me at "The reason for the increase in avoidance? Lines of code,
iPads onboard and a willingness to ditch a century-old way of doing things."

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WalterBright
I don't think there were airliners in 1918.

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yxhuvud
The first one were started in the twenties iirc, but that is close enough.

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pdelbarba
I have no idea what they're referring to in terms of app or model, but
Foreflight (most common EFB app on the market at the moment) has had this
feature for maybe a year and is IPad only... So is this just a huge Delta ad
there they're basically saying "yay, we use Foreflight"?

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ginkgotree
It does look like they built their own app. But yes, Foreflight has had this
for a while. yawn

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gaadd33
Do you know what airlines use Foreflight?

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bronco21016
In the US I’ve only ever heard of anyone using Jeppesen FliteDeck Pro or LIDO
by Lufthansa Systems.

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Sir_Cmpwn
Pity - turbulence is one of my favorite parts of flying!

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WalterBright
A friend told me once when he was flying that the jet hit some severe
turbulence. Everyone was white-knuckling the armrests, until some texan
towards the front started waving his hat and yelling yee-haw! Which went a
long way towards relieving everyone's anxiety.

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Pyxl101
When I hit turbulence, I just try to keep in mind that airplanes are extremely
robust and can handle considerably more turbulence than a typical person might
imagine. For example, see how much airplane wings can bend without breaking:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--LTYRTKV_A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--LTYRTKV_A)

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WalterBright
My father, AF pilot, was once flying a DC-3 over New Mexico, when he
encountered clear air turbulence. The airplane shook violently. The airspeed
indicator just ping-ponged around. He said there was nothing he could do but
pull the airspeed back to the minimum (to reduce stress on the airframe),
radio the controller to warn other aircraft, and ride it out.

After he landed, the mechanics showed him where rivets had been pulled out of
the wings.

Edit: one of the reasons the DC-3 was such a robust airplane was nobody had
any experience with an airplane of that size and type, so it was overdesigned.
It's the same reason the B-17 was a tough bird.

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danielecook
It seems to me that there is less turbulence in the last 10-15 years. Does
anyone know off hand whether this is the case?

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wahern
Newer aircraft seem to have higher wing loading. (See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_loading#Range_of_wing_loa...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_loading#Range_of_wing_loadings),
especially 767 vs newer aircraft.) Higher wing loading makes for a more stable
flight. _If_ your perception is correct, it _could_ be changes in aircraft
design rather than actual turbulence.

Personally, I think it may have more to do with pilots more liberally
adjusting course to avoid turbulence. High-profile incidents related to
turbulence, newer tech, and the padding of flight schedules to game on-time
metrics would make it an easier decision for a pilot to avoid turbulence.

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User23
I like to tell people with a straight face that turbulence was actually
introduced as a cost saving measure in the ‘70s.

