
Could New York City Eliminate Free Street Parking? - Silverwood
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/20/nyregion/nyc-street-parking.html
======
paulgb
> Driving down any avenue, the traffic lanes have been diminished because of
> the bicycle lanes and the parking areas have been diminished because of the
> bike rentals. It’s punishing drivers.

Funny how drivers are willing to blame everyone except other cars. Walk down
Canal or Broome around rush hour and it's pretty clear that the problem is not
bike lanes (neither have them) but the fact that there are just too many cars
for the amount of space available.

It will be interesting to see what happens with city politics after the next
mayoral election. My sense on the ground is that political will from the non-
driving majority is stronger and more organized than it has been in the past.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
> My sense on the ground is that political will from the non-driving majority
> is stronger and more organized than it has been in the past.

This might be an unfair generalization, but I associate pro-car sentiments
with older conservative voters, who unfortunately do turn out to elections
more strongly. The outer burroughs certainly elect in that direction.

------
stefan_
You never hear a peep about street parking in the NY Times unless it can be
framed as some sort of existential class struggle question and great
historical social justice dilemma, all or nothing.

Meanwhile there are some 140000 "parking placards" in NYC that are abused with
great abandon by a privileged class of state workers to park wherever the fuck
they want, with enforcement curiously missing. Here is a tip for an aspiring
writer: don't try to condense an issue into a single column and inevitably
come up with the 100 year old quotes of the plight of the struggling minimum
wage worker, find a detail and research that.

~~~
whatisthiseven
You mean like these three articles on it from the NYT?

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/nyregion/parking-
placards...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/nyregion/parking-placards-
city-workers.html)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/nyregion/parking-
ticket-s...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/nyregion/parking-ticket-
scandal-nyc.html)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/nyregion/the-new-math-
of-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/nyregion/the-new-math-of-parking-
placards.html)

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ipnon
Pedestrians and bicyclists spend more than drivers at local businesses in New
York City [0].

[0]
[https://www.transalt.org/sites/default/files/news/reports/20...](https://www.transalt.org/sites/default/files/news/reports/2012/EV_Shopper_Study.pdf)

~~~
kiliantics
While this is a helpful point, I think it would be nice if this issue were
framed more in terms of physical and mental health, not just as a question of
how to optimise economic output. We need less cars for almost every possible
reason you can think of.

~~~
ipnon
I want to make a point. There should be no concern that The War on Cars harms
the economy of New York City. It is a claim without evidence.

~~~
kiliantics
I agree. But I would also counter that it is worth killing cars even if there
were a measurable negative economic impact, because of all the clear benefits
we would gain in exchange for it. But of course even these subtler benefits
(like mental and physical health), would necessarily result in improved
economic output overall.

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yboris
A must read classing for anyone interested in this topic:

 _The High Cost of Free Parking_ by Donald Shoup

[https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-
Updated/dp/193...](https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-
Updated/dp/193236496X)

~~~
ipnon
What makes this a must read?

~~~
ch4s3
Donald Shoup, a UCLA professor, is one of the few academics who has been
studying the economics of parking and is considered THE authority on the
subject.

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neovive
More than residential parking, I feel that double-parking for deliveries,
drop-off/pickup, etc. is a major contributor to traffic and congestion. I like
the idea mentioned of flex-zones that can be used for different purposes and
perhaps address some of these concerns. Unfortunately, allocating parking
spaces is a zero-sum game.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _double-parking for deliveries, drop-off /pickup, etc. is a major
> contributor to traffic and congestion_

If half the street weren’t off limits due to parked cars, traffic could easily
route around such disruptions.

------
thebean11
In New York owning a car is a huge luxury, the city is giving away free real
estate to the richest of the rich New Yorkers. Getting rid of free street
parking is a great idea.

~~~
jinushaun
You must not visit Queens, Bronx or Manhattan beyond 110 very often. They have
extensive car ownership. I don't think anyone would call them rich.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
True, we should be careful to not conflate "Manhattan" with "New York City".

That said, I agree with OP's comment within the context of _Manhattan_. Anyone
who owns a car there is _very_ wealthy, even within the context of a wealthy
city.

(I don't agree with pegging the divide at 110th street, that's much too low.)

~~~
ericd
Anecdotal, but my relatives who live/grew up in the outer boroughs call
Manhattan “the city”.

~~~
Grazester
Thats only if you live in NYC you refer to Manhattan as "the city" but we very
well know that New York City consist of all 5 boroughs

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otoburb
>> _" In Chicago, neighborhood parking costs residents $25 a year; in Los
Angeles, as much as $34; in Washington, $35; and in Portland, Ore., $75. In
Boston, a pass for neighborhood parking is free, but officials are considering
charging people with one car $25, and more for second and third cars."_

The area highlighted in the article is the Upper West Side in Manhattan, which
is a primarily residential area and not a commercial area that will be subject
to a 2021 congestion toll. I don't know of any data that tracks the breakdown
of outsider vs. resident cars, but generally I feel that the majority of cars
who "cruise an average of seven blocks [...] before they find an empty space"
will not be impacted much if residential parking permits are issued.

In fact, residential parking permits would probably still result in the same
problems mentioned in the article: double-parked vehicles during the day,
remnants of a car-centric culture, and residents desperately circling for free
parking spots. The one benefit of a parking permit would be an increase in
city revenue.

This is sort of addressed in the article where "residential parking fees in
other cities have not been a panacea, in part because neighborhood permits
usually do not deal with the supply-and-demand problem — too many cars for the
number of spaces."

You could force residents to pay for garages which generally charge $700+ per
month to store a sedan (more for SUVs), but then we keep hearing how such
policies favour the rich and wealthy because they disadvantage residents who
need vehicles to drive to work every day.

~~~
rdmond
Nobody who lives on the Upper West Side is driving to work. They circle
looking for spots when they have to move their cars for street cleaning and
when the get back Sunday night from their country houses.

[https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/07/05/new-york-is-really-
aw...](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/07/05/new-york-is-really-awesome-when-
the-rich-people-leave-and-take-their-cars-on-vacation/)

~~~
lg
as an UWSer who does not know anyone with a "country residence" or who can
afford a second residence at all given the exorbitant price of living in this
city, there are plenty of other reasons for people to take the car out in the
middle of the day on a summer weekend like, say, going to a beach with your
chairs and cooler etc which isn't something you can do with public transit, or
going hiking someplace not right off a train line, or any number of things
that ordinary non-super-rich people do.

~~~
rdmond
Sure, but every time NYC "car culture" questions come up, people start
wringing their hands about people who need to drive to work. If we're talking
NYC that's a low percentage of people who do drive to work (whether they
_need_ to is another question) and for the Upper West Side (say, zipcodes
10023, 10024, 10025) very low, 6%-7%.

[http://zipatlas.com/us/ny/zip-code-comparison/percentage-
pop...](http://zipatlas.com/us/ny/zip-code-comparison/percentage-population-
drive-to-work.16.htm)

It is less compelling to say that people need free curbside parking so they
can go to the Catskills, whether they have a house there or not.

~~~
lg
I would certainly support resident parking permits. I don't think many people
need to commute _into_ the UWS for work by car, since of course the entire
neighborhood is hooked up to transit endpoints that have their own parking,
which is not necessarily true for the places that UWSers commute _to_.

------
AdrianB1
I live in Europe, but I see no reason why parking space would be free. I also
don't see a reason why a part of the street should be used parking when they
are built for driving. I am not an eco-nazi, I use a car and a motorcycle, but
they are always parked either on my property at home, in the shopping mall
parking (cost included in the price of the products I buy) or in the parking
at the office (which the employer already considers as a cost when paying me a
salary).

~~~
closeparen
It's a function of the urban design. In neighborhoods that are planned around
residences having off-street parking, it's not necessary, and many have a
blanket "no overnight street parking" rule.

In others, almost no residences have off street parking and there are few if
any commercial garages, so everyone parks on the street. Reducing the curb
space available for parking forces the least patient street parkers to give up
their cars.

------
kiliantics
If we could do a reset, there's no way people would choose to allocate around
half of public space just for cars. And especially when a significant portion
of that is space taken up by empty cars that are serving no one. We should
abolish almost all street parking in the city.

[https://twitter.com/BarmanNYC/status/1193229051609206784](https://twitter.com/BarmanNYC/status/1193229051609206784)

------
liminal
On-street parking is sanctioned littering. People should not be allowed to
litter giant cars on the streets.

------
davidf18
I live and work in Manhattan and there is a great deal of traffic congestion
that could be fixed by removing parking spaces on streets that have 1\.
dedicated bus lanes. 2\. bike lanes.

14th St has removed all parking and auto traffic and the crosstown buses are
very frequent even on a weekend and convenient.

A lot of traffic can be blocked by delivery trucks that are double parked on
streets which have parking on both sides.

One reason is that the trucks are too wide for the city streets. There should
be a mandated by law maximum width on delivery trucks for NYC that are no
wider than an SUV or other wide car. Instead of making the trucks wide, make
them long and narrow.

That way, even if the delivery trucks like Fedex, UPS, Freshdirect, etc are
double parked, they don't block the entire street.

------
ars
> But even as the number of parking spaces has shrunk, the numbers of cars has
> risen.

So basically, the actual people who live there, believe that even with all the
difficulties cars are the best way to go?

And the city wants to .... make things harder for them?

That's pretty backwards.

