
Doomsday Preppers Are Starting to Switch from Gold to Bitcoin - rayuela
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-20/can-bitcoin-survive-an-apocalypse
======
doctorRetro
"Her blueprint for survival also depends upon working internet"

I see a potential point of failure.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
Well it is false anyway.

Only a decentralized blockchain is needed for confidence in the data on it.

Ubiquitous internet is not needed, especially for the consumer.

Whether there are mere internet cafes, or data runners like the pony express
updating nodes occasionally over long remote distances, we do have an asset
which can be used offline.

On the consumer side, transactions can be signed offline, and broadcasted
later.

Offline, consumers would be able to tell people their bitcoin address, would
be able to check the balance of their bitcoin address, and would be able to
create transactions with someone else.

For the consumer they could still store unlimited amounts and take up no
space, it would still be infinitely divisible, and securable.

edit: hello downvotes, my argument isn't whether it would be more useful than
some other bartered good, I would prefer if you had an actual rebuttal to the
technology features I described, because downvotes make it seem incorrect to
people less exposed to this technology and I'm confident that its not.

~~~
heavenlyblue
How do I tell solve the double-spend without the internet?

~~~
ringaroundthetx
you would just need nodes to agree, you don't need the internet as we know it.

people have broadcasted bitcoin transactions via long range radio frequency
before.

~~~
heavenlyblue
The only reason you would be correct is if the internet existed, as "bitcoin
transactions broadcasted over long range radio frequency" would be solving
exactly the same problem internet solves.

So your point is invalid.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
You're on to something, which is that I don't believe concepts like the
internet actually die.

A big network of ISPs like what we have today? That could be destroyed.

Computers communicating to each other over long distances? I don't think it is
hard - or so low priority to implement - that the disorganized nomadic
doomsday scenario perpetuates itself for very long.

------
gfosco
[citation required] Bitcoin will be pretty useless if SHTF.

Recently read an incredible story of someone who lived through absolute
lawlessness in Bosnia... Even gold/cash lost value quickly, replaced by
barter/trade. His main advice was to stock up on batteries, lighters, weapons,
and ammo.

~~~
phkahler
Sorry to go off topic but since you mention Bosnia and it's near Christmas
time I'd like to recommend reading this:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Eve/Sarajevo_12/24](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Eve/Sarajevo_12/24)

The section on "Background and Writing" tells an amazing story.

To bring it back inline, maybe a prepper needs a cello too.

------
zaarn
In a doomsday scenario, gold is worth nothing.

My grandmother used to tell me stories on how she stole cigarettes from
american soldiers after WW2 to sell them for food later. Money, coins, gold,
anything else, had literal zero useful value.

------
crispyambulance
I love it when Doomsday Preppers show what's in their "bug-out" bags: Guns,
knives, more guns, beef jerky, bullets , cash.

The contents of the bug-out bag is not unlike one would expect in a first-
person shooter video game. Perhaps that's where they get their ideas?

Now they're adding bitcoin to the mix. Practical.

~~~
ryandrake
Honestly, if society actually collapses, the only things you need in your bag
are guns and ammo. With enough of those, everything else becomes free.

~~~
crispyambulance
Only in "The Walking Dead." In real life, a raging fool with a gun can only
last so long.

What you really need if society collapses is adaptability, resourcefulness,
really good negotiation skills and like-minded people that help each other
out.

------
jackpot51
When the shit really hits the fan, bullets and cigarettes are the only
currencies.

~~~
sabujp
don't forget alcohol and food

~~~
zaarn
Judging from post-WW2 germany, cigarettes were the most valuable thing on the
market.

Probably because Alcohol and Food can be fairly easily self made (germany,
tradition of beer brewing, you'll find someone, also lots of farmes, even
today)

On the other hand, tabacco is from overseas and requires some difficult
manufacturing. Same for bullets, mostly.

I think alcohol and food would stay cheap. The things that would replace money
are things you absolutely need but are hard to produce without modern
civilation. Ie, cigarettes, bullets, gasoline, rifles and toilet paper.

~~~
jacobush
After two weeks food is not going to be cheap, then after "X" time comes the
equilibrium and the situation you describe.

But I expect "X" to be pretty long and pretty bad. Like Mad Max 2 bad i.e.
years and maybe half the population dead.

------
gonvaled
Not all doomsday are equal: I see a crisis scenario where economies are in
tailspin but infrastructure is mostly working - albeit getting more expensive
(in ordinary currencies).

Having assets in a non-inflatable currency can be very good hedging against
this kind of scenario.

------
josephagoss
I'm a massive bitcoin + crypto currency fan but even I think these assets are
probably not the best for your typical doomsday scenarios.

------
elcapitan
When the "shit hits the fan", knowing + being friends with your neighbors is
the currency you can count on.

------
hugja
I've never understood the stock piling of gold. I feel like in doomsday life
goods like guns, food, water, tools, etc. Would be of more value then gold or
bitcoin. Maybe my view of doomsday life is harsher then others.

~~~
ourmandave
_Maybe my view of doomsday life is harsher then others._

It is. I think it's doomsday when all the stores are closed on Christmas.

------
SirLJ
The civilization will end as we know it, but the internet will remain intact
:-)

~~~
jmnicolas
My thought exactly : if you really think civilization will end, you'd better
be non electricity dependent.

In a true total collapse event, even gold won't feed you.

~~~
SirLJ
Absolutely, you'll need water, food, meds, guns and real friends to survive...

~~~
macawfish
Mostly you'll need real friends

~~~
mirimir
... with guns and training ...

~~~
jmnicolas
... or really fat friends (with no guns and training) ;-)

~~~
SirLJ
LOL

------
krtkush
Even the people preparing for doomsday cannot think outside of the bubble.

------
sebringj
I've read about this pattern but of course, patterns change. (relating to a
farmer investing in bitcoin) The pattern is when you have Joe Average
investing in X that is the time to sell and buy the usually very stable but
undervalued Y so when X takes a dive, in theory Y goes up like a rocket, then
switch to Z or X or whatever is undervalued at that point that has potential.
Are we not seeing that pattern now or is it X still just hitting mainstream, X
being bitcoin?

------
matt_wulfeck
Doesn’t processing a transaction cost the the same energy as a house for 7
days? This has got to be the most absurd switch I’ve ever heard of in a
doomsday scenario.

~~~
jacobush
Not that I agree that bitcoin is a good prepper's choice, but to be fair, in a
catastrophic event, the energy requirement would drop. If all the ASIC miners
are going offline (due to bombings of power plants in China or whatever) then
the hash rate would drop and the power requirements with it.

------
nikolay
Doomsday people are crazy to start with! Anyway, something that depends on a
lot of electricity (in China!) to keep afloat, is not really doomsday-
compatible!

~~~
phkahler
>> Doomsday people are crazy to start with!

Really? I think they're just allocating more resources (both mental and
material) to a possible future that most of us think is low probability. There
are other ways to fall into the trap than crazy/paranoid ;-)

~~~
michaelbuckbee
Very few of them seem to have sat down, looked at the risk
profiles/probabilities of various scenarios and said "I should start
prepping".

In most cases they seem like people who are terrified of a few overly specific
(low probability) events to the detriment of their health, relationships and
community.

What concerns me is both that there now seems to be media specifically
designed to prey upon these people's fears and then turn around and sell them
products to assuage those.

------
TYPE_FASTER
There is plenty of cheap-ish land in VT/NH you could buy today and go off the
grid. Water, heat by wood, grow your own food.

~~~
derekp7
But you need to be able to supply a private army to defend that land. Just
because you own it doesn't keep others from raiding your farm fields in a
doomsday scenario.

I guess one advantage of buying the property now (and vacationing there a few
times a year) is if it is a relatively unknown area, and you can gain an
advantage by familiarizing yourself with it.

~~~
TYPE_FASTER
Picking corn with one hand and holding a gun in the other is going to make for
mighty slow harvesting...

------
misterbishop
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdw1MVJQME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzdw1MVJQME)

------
aryehof
Better perhaps to invest in a large tradable supply of boxes of matches.

