
Oracle Discontinues Free Java Time Zone Updates - sharms
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/06/08/051235/oracle-discontinues-free-java-time-zone-updates
======
zorlem
Oracle changed the distribution terms of TZUpdater from free (as in beer) to
available only to paying customers at least half a year ago.

It should be noted, though, that this largely affects only users that for some
reason can't update their JRE and are lagging behind the latest version.
Oracle still provides up-to-date versions of the TZ data with the latest JRE.

It's not a big issue since one could use IBM's TZ updater tool or compile the
TZ data from the raw Olson TZ database using javazic.jar available from
OpenJDK.

~~~
overgard
It strikes me that the organizations that can't update to the latest JRE are
the really large enterprises still running IE6 and so on. I think one client
we worked with was still stuck on Java 1.4. I imagine that's the target of
this latest change.

~~~
zorlem
_> It strikes me that the organizations that can't update to the latest JRE
are the really large enterprises still running IE6 and so on._

Not necessarily. I know quite a few companies that have stabilized their code
against a particular version and lack the manpower and/or the money to
constantly upgrade and deal with the newly introduced bugs in newer versions.
They usually do the upgrades on a schedule (eg. once a year or every 18
months).

For most major deployments changing to a new version of the JVM is a non-
trivial task.

 _edit: added a life-cycle_

------
thwarted
I never understood why the system-wide timezone database, at least on UNIX-
like systems, wasn't used by Java. Why does Java need its own timezone
database/database format? Why do I need to install new timezone databases on
my Linux system that runs Java? Why can't the Olsen tzinfo files be installed
on systems where the OS provider doesn't provide them?

~~~
herge
Most of the reinvent-the-wheel functionality that Java implements exists to
make up for deficiencies in Windows as an OS.

~~~
jlgreco
It seems to me that a strength of the Java should be it's ability to only
reinvent-the-wheel where necessary, and simply provide a thin compatibility
layer over existing wheels on systems that already had them.

I mean, they already have different low-end implementations of "draw this shit
onto the screen" for X and Windows..

~~~
huherto
You have to make implementations in all plataforms to make sure that they
behave exactly the same way.

~~~
jlgreco
Yes, that is right. So use the tzinfo on systems where it exists, and restrict
the more complex implementations of the same interface to systems where it
does not (Windows).

~~~
untog
But how can you rely on tzinfo and your custom implementation behaving the
same? How do you know what version of tzinfo you're running against? What if
it changes?

The expensive, costly answer is to rigorously test each version and keep up to
date with every change on an external dependency managed by a organisation you
have no control over.

The other answer is to just use your package everywhere.

------
hga
Not to take away from the greater import of this, or the issues of legacy
code, but as noted in the Slashdot discussion, Joda Time ([http://joda-
time.sourceforge.net/](http://joda-time.sourceforge.net/)) is a good
replacement for the official time stuff.

~~~
quarterto
And effectively becomes official in Java 8 (or rather, JSR-310 from the same
creator does).

------
sgt
Not a big deal - blown out of proportion.

As one slashdotter put it:

"IBM provides free access to the Olson database updates:

[http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/dst/jtzu.html](http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/dst/jtzu.html)

Was this post even necessary?"

------
astangl
Big deal. So we'll start getting the updates from IBM instead.

[http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/dst/jtzu.html](http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/dst/jtzu.html)

------
skottk
They really want you to stay current on the JRE.

They really really want you to get off the dangerous, broken JRE 6 version.

They're maintaining the most dangerous client software in the world, and they
can't break the language with quarterly releases of exciting new features.
They have to love people forward into new releases, or maintain the old
releases forever. TZUPDATER is maybe the only thing they can kill to incent
people to upgrade. And they're not killing it, they're letting you pay to keep
running old, vulnerable versions of software.

Slashdot OP misses the point. You're supposed to upgrade your runtime
periodically. They're years behind.

~~~
josephkern
"Slashdot OP misses the point. You're supposed to upgrade your runtime
periodically. They're years behind."

Never supported mission/life critical apps in an enterprise that require an
older runtime? It's not the users fault that a dev built an application that's
only compatible with a specific runtime version.

------
joelthelion
We should get rid of time zones entirely. They cause problems to no end while
providing no real benefit. People would get used to the fact that the sun
usually rises at 11PM in New Delhi, for example.

~~~
cnu
And if I am travelling from New Delhi to London, how would I know/sync what
time the sun rises/sets?

~~~
jlgreco
Trying to use timezones to figure out what the sun is doing is already an
exercise in futility:
[http://www.daylightmap.com/index.php](http://www.daylightmap.com/index.php)

The earth's axis is tilted so in addition to needing to know the timezone and
the date in a solar sense, you also need to know the latitude _and_ need to be
able to combine those three things in your head... in practice you just look
it up instead.

------
btown
How difficult would it be for someone to create an open-source version of this
tool? From the readme for the now-paywalled utility, it seems that the utility
only modifies a single directory in a predictable way...
[http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tzupdater-
read...](http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tzupdater-
readme-136440.html#remove)

~~~
Maxious
Or just use the implementation in OpenJDK
[https://blogs.oracle.com/coffeys/entry/want_the_latest_tzdat...](https://blogs.oracle.com/coffeys/entry/want_the_latest_tzdata_support)

------
nettdata
It's based on freely available data in the first place, and I'm sure an Open
Source option will pop up to replace it.

If it's truly "mission critical", then I don't see what's wrong with paying
for the service.

Call me crazy, but I don't see this as being a big deal.

$0.02 (CDN)

------
wavefunction
Go on Larry, run it into the ground!

You may not care about this, owning your own personal Hawaiian island, but
there's a reason people give a shit about Bill Gates and even that notorious
asshole Steve Jobs, but you, you're just an object of derision!

~~~
melling
Maybe next time you should wait before shooting from the hip with some
pointless rant.

Other people have already provided some real insight into the issue. It
doesn't sound like it's a major issue. Larry just wants people to pay or do
the work themselves, if they're going to lag behind on older versions. It
costs him extra money and development wasted time. He should make it even more
painful so companies must upgrade. When I hear people tell me they're still
using Java 1.4, I find it very hard to think they're not being extremely lazy.

~~~
chii
> they're still using Java 1.4, I find it very hard to think they're not being
> extremely lazy.

or they are running an app that they either don't have the source, or don't
have the budget to update.

~~~
lttlrck
Or don't need to. A decade is not so long.

------
yekko
You get what you paid for.

