
N.S.A. Will Not Be Allowed to Keep Old Phone Records - jeo1234
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/28/us/politics/nsa-will-not-be-allowed-to-keep-old-phone-records.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
======
kardos
GCHQ, meanwhile, is not restricted from storing or querying such a database
should they obtain a copy. Further, the NSA is not barred from asking GCHQ to
return queries against the content of databases they hold. Lastly, GCHQ would
be wise to automate the servicing of such requests, as a cost saving measure.

So this restriction has the potential of slowing the NSA's phone record
snooping by roughly one RTT across the Atlantic. A delay that could amount to
as much as 0.15 seconds.

~~~
s_q_b
FVEY really is a neat arrangement. We can all circumvent laws about spying on
our own citizens by having our closest allies do it. Hail Britannia, I
suppose, except instead of owning the waves they now own the packets.

GCHQ also seems to punch way above its weight for such a small country. And
yes, the scenario described is exactly what an intelligence officer would
think, in order to handle the situation.

~~~
sandworm101
Britain closest?

I think not. Canada is one of the five and is much much closer. GCHQ is in the
news, but much of the cross-boarder legal fiction stuff happens via Canada.
Britain controls the international routes two and from europe, but when it
comes to domestic spying Canada is the much closer partner.

~~~
s_q_b
Mmm... I'd need a citation on that. CSE isn't just overlooked in the news,
it's a much less powerful agency (about ~50% greater budget for GCHQ according
to news sources.)

Additionally, every high level collaboration, according to news reports,
involved GCHQ as the chief partner.

------
caseysoftware
This time.. THIS TIME they're follow the law and tell the truth. Because they
have such a great track record.

Remember, this is the Administration that first claimed they weren't
collecting anything, then they were but not on Americans, then they were but
only for suspected terrorists, then they were but only for people connected to
terrorists, then they were but only metadata. How dumb do they think we are to
believe _that_ story?

And - as others have noted - GCHQ probably has a copy of everything too so
this is yet another paper tiger.

------
sschueller
But will that actually stop them from doing it anyway?

It seems the NSA doesn't care about any laws it breaks domestic or
international since there are no repercussions.

~~~
s_q_b
No, they care. When it was discovered that a target had once _applied_ for
citizenship, rendering him an USPER and thus off limits, Alexander had the
man's file printed out, erased from the system, and then burned it in front of
the entire NOC to make a point.

Yes, their procedural controls suck. Yes, "collect it all" is likely an
illegal mantra. And if someone bad gets their hands on this data the result
could be horrific. But right now, it's being mainly used to target and
neutralize actual foreign terrorist threats.

~~~
ionised
> But right now, it's being mainly used to target and neutralize actual
> foreign terrorist threats.

And civil liberties groups and charities. And foreign businesses in allied
countries. And allied politicians.

~~~
NullCharacter
[citation needed]

~~~
ionised
Do you really have to ask after the last year or more of news?

[http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/08/snowden-council-of-
europe-t...](http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/08/snowden-council-of-europe-
testimony/)

[http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/22/gchq-
surveill...](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/22/gchq-surveillance-
two-human-rights-groups-illegal-tribunal)

[http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/20/gchq-
targeted...](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/20/gchq-targeted-aid-
agencies-german-government-eu-commissioner)

[http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_...](http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/22/nsa_gchq_spying_on_humanitarian_groups_like_unicef_medecins_du_monde.html)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/world/nsa-dragnet-
included...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/world/nsa-dragnet-included-
allies-aid-groups-and-business-elite.html?_r=0)

[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-
braz...](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/09/nsa-spying-brazil-oil-
petrobras)

I mean, these are just the ones I remember off the top of my head. I've got a
pretty good record of everything leaked over the last year or so on my home
computer.

~~~
NullCharacter
Oh you mean an intelligence agency whose mission is foreign intelligence is
gathering intelligence on foreign entities?

~~~
ionised
You just asked me for citations, implying that you didn't believe what I
wrote.

I gave you citations/articles and you reply with basically

"Well, well... of course they do that!"

~~~
NullCharacter
For what it's worth, when you said "Civil liberties groups and charities...
and allied politicians" I thought you were referring to domestic
organizations/persons.

Shrug.

~~~
qanael
Is that a meaningful distinction?

~~~
dimino
To the law? Yes, a huge one.

------
wickedlogic
And by 'will not be allowed to keep', they really mean transfer to a
contracted 3rd party to 'delete' it, until it might be needed or become more
legitimate to be keeping... during the next crisis.

------
ommunist
And who is going to check that? On a rolling basis? May I please go there and
check?

~~~
wmeredith
Why of course not, silly prole. YOU do don't get to check. It's way above your
clearance. Just pay your taxes and shut up.

------
callesgg
The word "Allowed" does not weigh much in the ears of NSA employees.

------
Zikes
It's not enough. This says they have to purge the phone records on a rolling
five year basis.

Collecting phone records without a warrant is still a violation of the Fourth
Amendment.

------
dudul
Weren't they already not allowed to collect them in a first place?

------
meddlepal
Yea, I believe that... not.

------
higherpurpose
Wink wink, nudge nudge?

------
happyscrappy
At least the French are honest, we are taking everything and there is nothing
you can do about it.

------
sneak
...but they will anyway.

------
supergeek133
"Not allowed"... haha.

------
jackreichert
I don't use the phone. Pretty much ever. I want to know what's happening to my
emails, online tracking etc.

