
Puerto Rico energy plan introduces MiniGrids to avoid repeat of Hurricane Maria - howard941
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/puerto-rico-energy-plan-introduces-minigrids-to-avoid-repeat-of-hurricane-m/556645/
======
g_sch
This is certainly a bold plan. I wonder (doubt, even) if PREPA will be able to
execute it.

Segmenting the grid is going to introduce a lot of trade-offs. Smaller
segments means that dips and spikes in load are going to create greater
differences in frequency, and as such require faster demand response to create
the same level of frequency regulation as a larger grid.

Renewables such as solar and wind are already not known for being particularly
friendly to grid operations as their output can vary quickly and
unpredictably. On a smaller grid, these variances are going to be magnified.
They also can't be used for demand response by themselves - you can't tell the
sun to start shining on demand.

Batteries can effectively smooth the load by providing operating reserve, but
the proposed 940 MW of battery capacity (I couldn't figure out from the
original report [0] how much MWh storage they are proposing -- there seem to
be some numbers missing) is significantly larger than any other battery-based
grid energy storage plan that I'm aware of.

I hope they can pull off this plan, and they are able to make it work for the
people of PR as well.

[0]
[https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oupTRdHXRHzc6UuKUdmFp9eWKP...](https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oupTRdHXRHzc6UuKUdmFp9eWKPR0CZd5)

~~~
duxup
>I wonder (doubt, even) if PREPA will be able to execute it.

Sadly this might say a lot more about PREPA than anything else.

~~~
g_sch
After looking it up, I discovered PREPA was privatized shortly after Hurricane
Maria. So perhaps they have new sources of capital. Though I'm still not sure
(or at least not confident) that anyone with a profit motive is going to
invest heavily in Puerto Rico's grid.

~~~
jandrese
IIRC the PREPA privatization was more of a gift to some well connected people
and less about modernizing or improving the company.

~~~
jtuente
There's corruption all around PREPA, just a nasty situation.

[http://ieefa.org/ieefa-report-effects-of-long-running-oil-
pu...](http://ieefa.org/ieefa-report-effects-of-long-running-oil-purchase-
scandal-undermine-privatization-and-contract-reform-initiatives-at-prepa/)

------
SEJeff
Tesla has been working with Puerto Rico quite a bit on this exact thing:

[https://electrek.co/2018/06/03/tesla-energy-storage-
projects...](https://electrek.co/2018/06/03/tesla-energy-storage-projects-
puerto-rico-elon-musk/)

[https://electrek.co/2018/04/18/tesla-powerwall-powerpack-
pue...](https://electrek.co/2018/04/18/tesla-powerwall-powerpack-puerto-rico-
blackout-elon-musk/)

~~~
xkjkls
Have they actually made any progress though? This seems like they just had a
bunch of PR statements and empty promises.

~~~
toomuchtodo
[https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/10/25/560045944...](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/10/25/560045944/tesla-turns-power-back-on-at-childrens-hospital-in-
puerto-rico)

[https://futurism.com/tesla-announced-six-new-projects-
restor...](https://futurism.com/tesla-announced-six-new-projects-restore-
power-puerto-rico)

> A lack of energy resources can have dire health implications, so Tesla will
> first deploy battery systems at the most critical locations. These include a
> sewer treatment plant, the Arcadia water pumping station, the Ciudad Dorada
> elderly community, the Susan Centeno hospital, and the Boys and Girls Club
> of Vieques.

Doesn't sound like empty promises.

~~~
bduerst
Only a hospital in San Juan received a solar panel deployment. The quote you
cited is more promises.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Citation please.

~~~
ancientworldnow
[https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ca51e99e4b082d775dfec35](https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ca51e99e4b082d775dfec35)

~~~
toomuchtodo
If you read the article, it clearly explains these weren’t Tesla failings, but
systemic neglect and disregard for the equipment donated and deployed.

Tesla can’t fix apathetic government and locals. There’s a reason Puerto Rico
is in the condition it’s in.

~~~
chillwaves
What reason is that?

~~~
toomuchtodo
Corrupt government and an apathetic electorate. Not quite a failed state yet,
but getting there.

It’s a shame; the people of PR deserve better.

~~~
SEJeff
You did miss the one serious fact in that a lot of things normal states can
do, because they have voting Senators and House Representatives, PR can not
do. So they can't change a lot of things because it requires US Congress to
let them. US Congress doesn't care as much about PR as the rest of the US, so
they're in a hole they can't dig out of.

Making PR the 51st state is one "fix" and the other is to let PR free of US
tendrils. They voted last year that they wanted to become a 51st state, but
the GOP has no interest in a new state made up of Latinos. Ironically, the
people of PR are actually extremely conservative, but that might change
electorally given the bile coming from the current conservative party.

------
DigitalVerse
It's a little depressing how long it takes to complete projects like this, but
encouraging that they're even trying. So... I guess I feel neutral about this
on the balance. Anyone wanna take bets on how delayed and how much over budget
they'll be?

~~~
JackFr
Kevin Williamson writing about tunnel repairs in NYC

[https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/l-train-shutdown-
repai...](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/l-train-shutdown-repairs-what-
took-long/)

"There was a terrible storm in 2012 that damaged the tunnel; repairs beginning
in 2019 will shut down L Train service for a year and a half, etc. What
strikes me as remarkable is that none of these accounts contains any half-
serious attempt to explain to the curious reader such as myself why in the
name of all that is good and holy it is taking all these years to get from
Hurricane Sandy to Hurricane Sandy repairs.

Assuming those repairs are done on schedule nearly nine years will have passed
between Sandy and the completion of storm repairs. That’s twice as long as it
took the United States to defeat the Axis powers, twice as long as the Civil
War, longer than the time that elapsed between John Kennedy’s “We choose to go
to the moon” speech and landing Americans on the moon."

~~~
mstade
> That’s twice as long as it took the United States to defeat the Axis powers,
> twice as long as the Civil War, longer than the time that elapsed between
> John Kennedy’s “We choose to go to the moon” speech and landing Americans on
> the moon."

Implying the United States defeated the axis powers on their own is a bit rich
– don't you think?

Disregarding the revisionism of your comment, this seems to be a common
argument in discussions like this and I wonder why? Isn't it fairly obvious
that those ambitious undertakings were either due to significant political
will or being forced by danger of death, whereas repairing a subway most
probably carries none of that weight? So those responsible must fight tooth
and nail to convince the powers that be of the necessity of the work, probably
end up being underfunded anyhow, and of course all this requires the
responsible (political) parties care enough in the first place.

It seems like a pretty unreasonable argument to me, but maybe I'm missing the
point.

~~~
JackFr
I don't think the point was to imply that the US beat the axis powers on their
own, but rather to put the timeline in perspective.

Notwithstanding that, you are missing the point. The failure to rebuild the
tunnel is at its heart a failure of leadership. We have the technology, we
have the money, what we lack are political leaders with will and vision.

In the examples you brought up, FDR led a nation dragging their heels into a
war most people were happy to stay out of. He showed leadership and no small
amount of political skill to get the United States into a war most wanted to
avoid (which makes the 'beat-the-axis-singlehandedly' trope even more ironic.)
Similarly with Lincoln and the Civil War. Many people were content to live
with the status quo of slavery. And so with Kennedy and the moon landing --
the Cold War was not an existential threat, and the leadership of Kennedy
generated the will.

To get a subway tunnel repaired doesn't need a once in a century or once in a
generation leader, but it does take some will and vision and political savvy.
The venal mealy-mouthed bums we're currently stuck with are simply not up to
the task.

------
perfunctory
I remember reading some study of hedge fund managers that concluded that
despite having access to the same market information manager's behavior
differed based on their personal experience. More specifically, managers who
got burnt by a bubble burst were more risk averse.

I wonder how many nations will follow Puerto Rico's example before they
experience a devastating storm first.

------
malchow
Any devs interested in this space -- we have a company working on this and
hiring; please ping me. Power networks are currently dumb and dataless. This
will change!

~~~
mastry
Interesting. I spent several years at a small regional power company where we
did some initial work on smart meters. That was probably 10 years ago and from
what I understand they're still trying to get it all working on a large scale.
Are you referring to something more than smart meters?

~~~
malchow
Yep -- I'm talking about ARM Cortex equipped internet connected boxes -- think
residential solar, 5G rollout, small cells -- all on a genuine internet of
power.

~~~
cco
One question, why?

~~~
malchow
Power generators in the future are: 1) more numerous, 2) lower output, 3) more
intermittent, 4) more democratized. Therefore communication is more important
than it was in the 20th century monolithic model.

------
zaroth
Hopefully they were buying some on the hundreds of Sunny Island MicroGrids
being auctioned the last two days from the liquidation of DC Solar!

I was _this_ | ... (insert hundreds of more dots here) ... | _close_ to
convincing my wife we should buy a lot of 90 - 275W solar panels (several of
those lots sold for ~$4k).

The 25kWh 48v batteries look pretty awesome too, but where the heck I am going
to put 2,000lbs of battery?!

EDIT: Puerto Rico is installing MiniGrids, which are an order of magnitude or
two larger than the MicroGrids powered by the Sunny Islands, but anyway...

[https://cagp.industrialbid.com/m/view-
auctions/catalog/id/38...](https://cagp.industrialbid.com/m/view-
auctions/catalog/id/3850/)

~~~
jgamman
hate me if you want but i think we should call these milli-grids if they are
2-3 orders of magnitude bigger than a micro-grid...

i admit there will be some marketing issues.

------
hackeraccount
Why try a different solution? Why not just rebuild the existing grid more
robustly so it can withstand damage better?

I'm not saying this wouldn't work but changes in kind are generally riskier
then changes in degree.

~~~
stronglikedan
Because they've already proven that they aren't responsible enough for
centralized control of any critical infrastructure.

~~~
graenxa
This is such a strange sentiment. Do you ever hear people talk about states
this way. Is New York, West Virginia, or Washington ever "not responsible
enough" to have control over their roads, electricity, or water supply? Is any
country every said to be "not responsible enough."

But this sentiment comes up quite frequently in regards to Puerto Rico.

I live in Illinois. The budget/financial situation is a mess. People may have
opinions about what went wrong. They might say "Illinois really needs to do
X." But to my knowledge no one is seriously calling for a national
intervention or strong-arming Illinois into privatization.

Can you elaborate on why you think the people of Puerto Rico are not to to be
trusted taking care of their home?

~~~
mooseburger
> Can you elaborate on why you think the people of Puerto Rico are not to to
> be trusted taking care of their home?

Not him, but I am puertorican. There's nothing unusual in someone being unable
to take care of their home, it happens with some frequency. By the same token,
it should not be surprising that several nations fit this bill. I would
probably toss most of the southern hemisphere in that bin, Puerto Rico
included.

> But that was colonialism!

I tried this thought experiment once: imagine the people of the wealthy global
north just disappeared today. Does this mean the problems of the global south
are fixed? The answer to this is self-evidently 'no', at least to me. It's
useless to ruminate on the past, it is not the global north that create and
maintain our current situation. It's ok to admit that it's us that haven't put
in a good performance.

