
Pens Are Making a High-Tech Comeback - dpflan
http://www.wired.com/2015/07/the-pen-is-back/
======
Animats
_" He’s built a computer with almost zero latency—when you do something, the
computer reacts instantly. Here, Bathiche has solved that infuriating problem
where you write or draw on a screen, and the ink is always a half-second
behind your finger."_

So few people get that. Alan Kay once wrote in the 1970s that it was as
unacceptable for there to be a delay between user action and response on a
computer as it was unacceptable on a piano. Now we have several gigaflops on
every desktop and still can't get that right.

We really need this in web browsers. Especially on phones. When you click or
touch something, something should happen _right now_ , even if more will
happen later. Touch a link in Firefox for Android and see what happens, or
rather what doesn't happen.

~~~
wwweston
[http://lowendmac.com/2006/vintage-macs-with-system-6-run-
cir...](http://lowendmac.com/2006/vintage-macs-with-system-6-run-circles-
around-3-ghz-windows-pc/)

~~~
lectrick
Vintage Macs also had 0% (seemingly) cursor lag and 0% cursor flicker. Took
Windows 20 years to finally have a usable (coming from a Mac at least) mouse
cursor.

------
ypeterholmes
Mistaken premise here in my opinion:

 _Think about typing the character ‘a’ on a keyboard. Fast, right? Just the
one keystroke. “It is fast,” Bathiche says, “if you make some certain
assumptions. That the position of the letter ‘a’ is where you intended it to
be, the font is the way you intended it to be, the size of the ‘a’ is what you
intended it to be.” All those decisions are made before you hit the key, and
you often don’t have a choice. “But with ink, you can dictate all those
things, almost simultaneously as you’re writing. I can put my ‘a’ here, or
here, and I can make it as big as I want, as hard as I want.”_

I can type wayyy faster than I can write with a pen.

So... yeah

~~~
fizx
Can you type LaTeX faster than you can write equations on a chalkboard? I
can't.

~~~
quietplatypus
I can. I used to do my math homework in LaTeX. I'm not saying I did it on
paper and the final stuff was written up, I mean I was thinking in LaTeX. The
PDF viewer was "check what I just did mode" and the text editor was "get
thoughts down" mode.

It was proof heavy so there was a lot of English anyway. Add copy/paste for
derivations with a lot of shared structure and it really pulls ahead. If you
define your own macros and are good enough at programming them on the fly it's
a neat though dumb Lispy symbolic math tool.

~~~
viewer5
Same here, I picked up LaTeX to take notes in my computer graphics class
because I didn't feel like writing it (my written equations were always pretty
cramped, and my handwriting is garbage) and because it was a pain to represent
equations in LibreOffice (what I'd been taking notes in before).

------
sosuke
Reminds me of the 1ms touch delay technology also from Microsoft's applied
sciences group.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4)

------
omarforgotpwd
I cannot think of another tech company that's as obsessed with pens as
Microsoft is. They've been working on and promoting this stuff for what feels
like decades now.

~~~
brobinson
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_for_Pen_Computing)

I remember reading that MS basically killed the nascent pen computing industry
by announcing their entry into it.

------
melling
Better pen input would be great, especially for drawing.

How about some form of chorded keyboard or glove? A chorded keyboard was
demonstrated in 1968 by Engelbart:

[http://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/library/extra4/sloan/mouses...](http://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/library/extra4/sloan/mousesite/1968Demo.html)

Google's Soli project might lead to better input:

[http://youtu.be/0QNiZfSsPc0](http://youtu.be/0QNiZfSsPc0)

~~~
dpflan
Soli looks very interesting. There is Smarter Objects from MIT Fluid
Interfaces that is similar in nature, but has a more dynamic approach. It's
certainly not as simple as Soli seems because of the augmented-reality
component it uses. But if Google brings back Glass and ships Soli in IoT/smart
household objects, then you'd have the same result.

\--EDIT-- Link to MIT Fluid Interfaces Smart Objects:
[http://fluid.media.mit.edu/projects/smarter-
objects](http://fluid.media.mit.edu/projects/smarter-objects)

------
noir_lord
I'd love an A4 sized one of these and a screen, monochrome would be fine, I
spent so much of my life drawing out code/approaches on squared pads only to
leave the pad at the office.

All I would want is some way of indexing them and one press to send as an
email.

I'd drop 200 quid on that right now.

~~~
solutionyogi
Have you looked at Boogie Board Sync?

[http://www.myboogieboard.com/na/products/boogie-board-
sync-9...](http://www.myboogieboard.com/na/products/boogie-board-sync-9.html)

I tried it. I really wanted to like it, but the writing screen was just not
bright enough for me. May be it will work for you.

~~~
noir_lord
I absolutely hadn't but that looks damn interesting, thanks!

What was the delay like in actual usage?

EDIT: This is literally what I was describing and have wanted for ages, US
only but some ebay.co.uk vendors have them! I'm having one of these soon!

------
mentos
input to response time is very important for VR

'I can send an IP packet to Europe faster than I can send a pixel to the
screen. How f’d up is that?' -John Carmack [0]

[0]
[https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/193480622533120001](https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/193480622533120001)

------
lewisl9029
I have been using pen input since 2009 when I started university, and am glad
that they're finally gaining traction as mainstream input devices.

The only problem is most of these new pens are actively powered by the
annoyingly rare AAAA battery. I haven't been able to find a rechargeable AAAA
from a reputable manufacturer yet. And the very fact that they require manual
battery swaps is unacceptable in this day and age IMHO.

This is why my newest laptop was a HP Elite X2 1011 that I paid through the
nose for, but at least has an older generation passive Wacom pen that does not
require a battery.

If any laptop/tablet makers are reading this, please replace the AAAA battery
slot in these active pens with Li-ion batteries and allow them to
automatically charge from the laptop when placed into their holders.

------
dpflan
Reminded me of Dr. Ivan Sutherland's "SketchPad" demo; here's a video of it
with Alan Kay commenting:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=495nCzxM9PI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=495nCzxM9PI)

------
icpmacdo
Can I get the Hacker News recommendation on the best affordable pens and
notebooks?

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Pen: Jinhao X750 ($10) is a no-brainer. Or the Platinum Carbon desk pen ($12)
if you like really thin lines.

Notebooks: Rhodia, Clairefontaine, Leuchtturm1917, or equivalent quality.
Should be around $15 depending on size. Moleskines are no-go (ink bleeds
through page)

Ink: Private Reserve is a nice starting point. I am particularly fond of their
foam green. $11 for a 66ml bottle.

Shop: I really like Goulet Pens. Good service, amazingly careful packaging.

Source: personal experience and preference.

~~~
y2bd
I'd generally recommend the Pilot Metropolitan over the X750, I feel as if the
Metro is a "surer bet" when it comes to QA, and it's only around five bucks
more. Plus the Metro comes in fine and medium nibs so you have a bit more
choice there.

Source: I have $100+ pens but I'm using a Metropolitan literally right now.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Interesting. My X750 sees quite randomly varying usage, and I really like how
it's easy to "hard start" it after a couple weeks of non-usage. Is the
Metropolitan similar?

Edit: after reading some reviews the Metropolitan is now on my buy list.
Thanks for the tip.

------
amirmansour
I'm glad they are making a high-tech comeback, but anyone else here also love
(or prefer) using fountain pens?

~~~
dozzie
Indeed. I have a nice Schaeffer pen and I do most of my notes and plans for
code with it. I would rather forget to take my tablet than to forget notebook.

------
kmonad
Suffering from RSI right now makes me think how nice it would be to code with
a pen...

------
anotheryou
"I can put my ‘d’ here, or here, and I can make it as big as I want, as hard
as I want.” "

------
bsder
> he’s built a computer with almost zero latency—when you do something, the
> computer reacts instantly.

Oh, the irony.

It's Microsoft's own fault in the first place that we have an _operating
system_ that is so horribly unresponsive.

And, now, umpteen years later, it's a _BIG ADVANCE_ that we actually make
computers do what we want, when we want. Just like before Microsoft.

~~~
oldmanjay
That's almost laughably incorrect, although unfortunately popular amongst a
certain segment of the tech set. The nearly-impossible-to-use computers that
did very little very slowly back in the 80s (and earlier) were not nearly as
amazing as your memory is fooling you into believing. Sure, nearly-bare-metal
OSes don't soak up much in the way of resources, but that only works in very
narrow market segments, and computers are totally mass market now.

And in any case, you mean "before Windows" if anything, because DOS was fast
as blazes (and did pretty much nothing as a consequence).

~~~
jameshart
Essentially, when people think back to how responsive computers were "before
windows", they are recalling computers which had no networking, and disks
which were so slow that you would never write software which depended in real-
time on getting that data from disk. You'd pre-load all the data you needed
into your meager RAM and then, yes, for doing the one thing that was loaded
into memory, with the data that was already in memory, the computer would be
very very responsive. But when it came to saving or loading, you could go and
get a coffee.

~~~
lectrick
I have to say that in this case you're wrong. The Apple Mac Plus in my
parents' closet, which I still fire up from time to time to play Dark Castle
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkbp4wurW0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkbp4wurW0)),
had a zero latency mouse (or at least imperceptible) with zero flicker. Took
Microsoft at least 20 years to get something comparable. This is not a
nostalgic mis-memory, or an exaggeration. Please find an old Mac from the 80's
and simply move the mouse around.

> they are recalling computers which had no networking

The very first network games I ever played were over AppleTalk on a Mac, like
NetTrek
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40VMsXtl0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40VMsXtl0Y)
... yes, that is digitized sound out of a 1984 machine), Maze Wars
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoEpgfTtUYg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoEpgfTtUYg))
and the venerable Bolo!
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz_gYZ5kMvc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz_gYZ5kMvc)),
the latter still one of the best multiplayer gaming experiences I've ever had

------
frandroid
How many tens of millions of dollars has Microsoft sunk in Surface, tablets
and other touch technologies, only to have Apple eat their lunch? How many
billions sunk in MSR every year yielding no commercial products? Microsoft has
always needed to get their product vision from somewhere else, and for all of
the hoopla about Nadella and open sourcing everything, that core fact about
Microsoft hasn't changed. It's really sad because Microsoft has everything
stacked in its favour to succeed. I mean it's not like like don't succeed on
those products that they copy from others, starting from Windows all the way
down to the Xbox and Bing, but when it comes to commercial innovation, that's
not who they are.

~~~
ethanbond
Microsoft seems to be perfectly successful to me, no?

R&D, by virtue of being R&D, rarely makes it to the market in a recognizable
form. My guess is that the lessons learned there certainly have been applied
to their real profit centers.

~~~
Someone1234
Plus their massive patent portfolio has definitely paid off in various ways.

PS - I don't personally like software patents, but you cannot deny they make
money for research-based organisations.

~~~
frandroid
The patent portfolio is a good point, I'll concede that.

