
The falling price of a TV set - paulpauper
https://theoutline.com/post/8421/smart-tv-cheap-roku
======
seltzered_
If you look at a chart of TV prices over 50-80 years, this has always been a
trend [1]. Institutes using this as an argument for declining poverty are
missing the point that while most goods have gone down in cost over the years,
services (childcare) and things of value (education) have gone up
substantially [2].

[1]: [http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-the-
incredib...](http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-the-incredibly-
shrinking-price-of-tvs-2011-12)

[2]: Elizabeth Warren's classic "Twin Income Trap" talk:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A)

~~~
wincy
But how much cheaper is it to learn a profitable skill? In the 1980s I’d have
had a much harder time learning to code. I learned essentially for free. A
traditional, hand holding education is more expensive, but information is
virtually free.

~~~
ken
You picked one skill -- computer programming -- which just happens to be the
one the internet is built on. It should come as no surprise that the internet
is a great place to learn that for free.

The further you get from that, the worse teacher the internet is. There are
many skills I've learned which are hard to find information about online, and
a few which don't seem to exist on the internet at all.

Not every profession has someone who took the time to sit down and put all
their knowledge on the internet for free. Some fields are just getting around
to putting it in books.

~~~
baddox
I think that very well may be true, but it definitely doesn’t match my own
intuition based on what I’ve seen. I have seen extensive educational videos
for free online about math, art (digital, painting, etc.), music (theory,
composition, orchestration, specific instruments, production, etc.), writing,
electronics, 3D printing, plumbing, construction and home repair, woodworking,
language learning, aviation, filmmaking (visual effects, cinematography,
acting, directing, screenwriting, etc.), marketing, entrepreneurship,
investing and financial advice, etc.

~~~
DanBC
The difficulty is sorting out the terrible videos from the good videos.

There's plenty of content created by people who don't really know what they're
doing, or who only have a rudimentary understanding.

I guess that's true of all education, but it feels like a bigger problem with
free online content.

~~~
icebraining
Yes, having choice creates more problems with choosing :) previously you might
just have been stuck with the terrible ones.

------
WalterBright
> Automakers, for example, can now expect to see bigger profits from the loans
> they make on selling cars than from selling the actual cars.

I took a community college class in accounting taught by a guy who used to
sell cars. He told me the money a dealership made was not from selling the
cars, it was from selling the financing.

This was in the 1970's.

BTW, I recommend taking a basic accounting class. It will pay off for your
whole life, even if you never run a business.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
This. A dealer's margins on the cars are razor thin these days. They make the
money on financing and servicing.

Even if you buy the car in cash, the purchase is one time payment, but after
that they have you as a recurring customer for the long run with service costs
which is where the money comes in.

No wonder modern cars are designed to be as difficult to service as possible
by the owner. In my older Fiat I could change the air and cabin filter without
any tools in 2 minutes. On my latest one they're both bolted with custom
screws. WHY?! On my older one the user manual would be full of instructions on
how to perform small maintenance tasks yourself. On the new one all it says is
_contact your authorized dealer_. It's as if the cars of the past were
designed by engineers and cars of today are designed by MBAs to be disposable
black boxes like laptops or phones where only the genius bar employees have
repair access.

The whole auto industry today is a large scale scam where we trade the
environment and our health for corporate profits and is being marketed to us
as a desirable lifestyle we should all aspire to which I wish not take part of
but I can't due to shitty public transport in my city and employers placing
their offices in buttfuck middle of nowhere to save on rent.

Unfortunately, the auto industry comprised of manufacturers and dealers have
too much power in some European countries, and, as they keep touting how our
dependency on car ownership is creating more jobs, their influence on the
future of urban planning ain't going nowhere.

~~~
wallace_f
>The whole auto industry today is a large scale scam where we trade the
environment and our health for corporate profits

In theory, it should be easy to solve transport within a metro area with low-
carbon solutions such as walking, bicycling and public transport.

I'm continually amazed by how good public transport and walkability are in
some cities outside America. Bicycles also have amazing potential and a few
successes in the world as mass transit.

It seems the issue is not with engineering a solution, but with the politics
of what gets implemented through our politicians and bureaucrats.

~~~
Red_Leaves_Flyy
Biking in a foot of snow, on roads with pot holes large enough to swallow a
tire, or that flood, or turn to black ice, is dangerous and sucks. Add the
lack of actual bike lanes on all but a few block long stretches and biking
becomes a death wish. Sure I can get a studded fat tire bike, and bike down
the middle of the lane with dozens of pissed off people behind me honking and
screaming at me, but that still doesn't solve the other problem of rampant
unprosecuted bike theft in my city. Nor do I have a place to shower once I get
to work.

So I'd need two bikes, one with specialized winter tires, that I'm replacing
frequently when they get stolen.

Another gym membership to shower at before I go to work.

Better health insurance to lessen the financial blow of the inevitable hit and
run.

More time to account for the longer commute. In my case it's 4-6x longer to
bike than drive. Time I'm not making any money and time I'm at substantially
greater risk of getting seriously injured.

The politics of it certainly do suck. There's too much money pushing for the
jobs that our car dependence create.

~~~
baot
You only chose to live that far from work, in a place that gets a foot of
snow, because you assumed you could make the journey in a petroleum car. It
wouldn't have been possible 100 years in the past and it won't be possible 100
years in the future. Same for your employer choosing not to provide showers.

~~~
thedaemon
You are making wild general assumptions about this person's life. Most people
in the USA can't really choose where to live, they are forced into a
particular zone based on income or some other factor. You are also suggesting
that they move from the place that gets snow. This is a ludicrous suggestion
and very rude. We can't all live on the beach front property.

~~~
baot
Let's be honest, people on HN aren't limited in where they live by poverty.

As I said, it was possible 100 years ago. We -as a society- have brought this
rut on ourselves.

~~~
thedaemon
I certainly am. I don't understand why everyone here thinks this is a private
club for rich investors in silicon valley.

------
mirimir
As soon as I read the title, I knew the answer. It's because you can no longer
buy a "TV set". What you can buy is yet another sort of snooping device, which
happens to show TV.

> But the most interesting and telling reason for why TVs are now so cheap is
> because TV manufacturers have found a new revenue stream: advertising. If
> you buy a new TV today, you’re most likely buying a “smart” TV with software
> from either the manufacturer itself or a third-party company like Roku. The
> cut of the advertising revenue from those pre-installed video channels is
> big business for actual TV makers, as is the business of selling user
> viewing data and other information to marketers.

So yet another thing that I will never buy.

~~~
Markoff
you can use TV just as display, that's my primary use of TV, it's just hooked
to HDMI cable from laptop, rarely playing some Netflix/Youtube videos to
children

you can use whatever is your prefered Android or STB box without ads, just
hook it to HDMI and you are done, TV will next time automatically start with
selected HDMI output and you will see nothing preinstalled by manufacturer

~~~
saiya-jin
I do exactly the same thing (apart from desktop vs laptop). Just don't connect
TV to the internet, feed it from trusty HDMI input and it will be great value
with 0 annoyances.

But if folks are too lazy to launch videos themselves with few clicks then
'you will be served'

~~~
altacc
On many smart TVs the content you're watching will still be monitored, as
automatic content recognition is based on analysing the images being
displayed, regardless of source. Blocking that requires isolation from the
internet, by simply not setting up the wifi, or using a network level blocker
like pi-hole if you still want to use smart features.

~~~
saiya-jin
Yes I should have mentioned that one too, no internet connection. In my case
TV simply works, there is nothing a software update can bring to improve it
but plenty to annoy.

Its like an air-gapped notebook with Windows that you only run Notepad. No
need to update it with unknown stuff in patches from Microsoft.

~~~
mirimir
OK, but from what I've read, it can still get online if there's an open WiFi
AP within range.

You'd need to find the WiFi radio, and physically disable it.

Me, I just buy the largest gaming display that's available. And view videos
stored locally. From DVDs or torrents. From a machine that has no internet
access. Just ethernet LAN connectivity to an otherwise isolated machine, which
is online only via nested VPN chains and Tor.

------
gruez
>With less demand for actual TVs, there’s less reason for manufacturers to
price them even more highly.

I don't buy this reasoning. Tablets and phones supposedly replaced laptops and
desktops (or so I've heard), yet the prices for those hasn't really budged in
the past couple of decades.

>But the most interesting and telling reason for why TVs are now so cheap is
because TV manufacturers have found a new revenue stream: advertising.

How big can the subsidy possibly be? If Facebook's average revenue per user is
$25/year, and a TV lasts 5 years, that's at most $125 of subsidy per TV. It's
probably order of magnitudes lower if you factor in costs for running the
advertising platform, that you really can't show that many ads as Facebook (it
can show a sponsored story every few stories, TV producers can't inject an ad
every few minutes), and probably have worse targeting.

~~~
mrandish
Yes, I agree. The article's claim about app rev share offsetting big parts of
the cost just doesn't make sense.

The reason that prices are lower is that manufacturing capacity is much
higher, not supporting analog input saves money, vertical integration onto a
handful of ICs, container shipping and supply chains are cheaper and Costco,
WalMart etc will sell TVs for very low markup to drive traffic.

~~~
scarface74
Roku is built into many of the lower end TVs. I’m sure they get a cut of the
revenue that Roku receives.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-11/streaming...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-11/streaming-
box-king-roku-is-under-seige-from-amazon-and-apple)

 _Nearly every inch of real estate on Roku is for rent. For $1 million, a
streaming service can take over the home screen to advertise a show. When Hulu
got the rights to stream Seinfeld, it paid Roku to transform a portion of the
screen into an image of Jerry’s apartment instead of the default purple
backdrop. Hulu, Netflix, Showtime, and YouTube have paid Roku to build brand-
specific buttons on its remote controls; these lead users straight to those
services. At $1 per customer for each button, the cost can quickly add up to
millions of dollars in monthly fees._

~~~
mrandish
I'm not claiming that TV manufacturers don't get some money from rev shares.
My point is that it's not money the manufacturer can count on because
subscribing or buying extra services is optional for customers on every set
that I've seen. The CPM from just displaying ads in a program guide has to be
tiny as CPMs for display only is crap everywhere. In my view, that's why some
of these UIs have every pixel for sale, it's not highly valued.

For myself and my sample of family and friends, TVs are displays. We buy the
screen we want based on size, specs and image quality, we never connect the
screen to the internet, run one HDMI into it and control the feed upstream
from a cable or satellite box, streaming box (FireTV, AppleTV, etc) or HTPC
running something like Plex. As for the remote control, after configuring the
screen to HDMI-1 and turning off all the stupid hyped-up color, frame
interpolation and other gimmicky modes that try to create pixels that were
never in the source signal, I take the batteries back out of the remote and
toss it in the box full of all the other unused TV remotes in the basement
waiting for when the screen gets donated to a friend or relative in several
years (I just had a funny image pop in my head of all those remotes sitting in
the box commiserating like the forgotten toys in the attic in Toy Story).

Manufacturers get zero incremental revenue from us. I'm sure they get some rev
from some people but it's going to be a blended average with a fair number of
zero samples. The reason I think this is I have a little personal experience
doing software bundle deals with hardware consumer electronics manufacturers.
It was similar in that if consumers bought into the upsell on our apps there
was a rev split with the manufacturer. CE manufacturers invariably assigned
zero net present value to any theoretical future revenue that isn't
guaranteed. They live and die by their quarterly COGS when it hits the dock in
Shenzen. I'm not saying their business can't change over time but that's where
it's coming from.

~~~
scarface74
And that’s all anecdotal. I posted a citation where Roku is getting literally
millions from advertising. If the TV manufacturer gets $25 from Roku that’s 5%
of the total cost of $500 65 inch TV.

You don’t have to subscribe to anything for the TV manufacture to make money.
When you buy the Roku TV with 4 hardcoded buttons to streaming services that’s
$4 by itself. Not to mention that half the home screen on a Roku has
advertising and unlike computers they aren’t easily blocked.

 _CE manufacturers invariably assigned zero net present value to any
theoretical_

Of course that’s not how it works for any investment. You compare the
risk/reward and calculate the expected return and compare it to your risk free
rate of return. In the US that is typically the return on government bonds.

------
uptown
"The trade-offs for cheap TVs is that customers are themselves becoming the
product for TV makers [...] For something to be as cheap as a great TV, people
have to give something up — whether they know it or not."

Just never give the TV its own direct connection to the internet. Use another
device that you do trust, to feed the big screen its content.

~~~
SethTro
Wait until these companies partner with Comcast to get default access to the
ever present Xfinity public hotspot.

Sure you might deny it privileged to your network but for a profit share I
might let it access mine.

~~~
edwhitesell
I doubt you'd get a profit share. When the idea of all of those 'CableWiFi'
networks started, it was because the cable operators wanted a separate
network. It usually runs on a separate circuit so it won't interfere with the
customer's bandwidth.

~~~
tehlike
The point they were making was using this cablewifi, tv will be able to send
data back without requiring your WiFi password.

------
ChicagoBoy11
The one thing I never understood about this is, aren't you just free to not
hookup your TV to the WiFi? I've bought SmartTVs and have just used them as
"dumb" TVs and they work perfectly fine. Aren't you there capturing the
benefit of this supposedly lower price without having to give up any personal
data back?

~~~
Traubenfuchs
But people want to watch Netflix, Amazon Prime or other stream services.
Modern smart TVs have those integrated.

~~~
jaytaylor
Just get a Chromecast or any other streaming player device and hook it up to
the TV with only HDMI. Solved- TV don't need to be able to spy on you.

~~~
ghaff
Chromecasts may be the best low-key (and low-cast) gadget out there. Which
probably means Google will kill it :-/

Just use my tablet, phone, or laptop to put content up on the TV. It makes for
a pretty nice digital picture frame too.

~~~
metafizikal
luckily Chromecast seems to be an important piece of Stadia, so it should be
around for a long while

~~~
account42
Do you have a reason to assume that Stadia will be around for a long while?

------
ProfessorLayton
I just purchased a 55" 4K LG TV from Costco for under $400 out the door. The
TV's sole purpose is to display an Apple TV's output, and will not be
connected to the internet. Interestingly, it has AirPlay and Homekit built-in,
but that's largely irrelevant due to the Apple TV.

This TV is replacing a 46" ~10yo Samsung purchased for over 1.1k that has very
basic "Smart" capabilities like playing MKV files from a USB drive and
network, which in my opinion is when smart TVs peaked.

~~~
mav3rick
It's probably an edge lit TV. FALDs are more expensive.

~~~
ProfessorLayton
Array LED backlighting can be had for under $500. I purchased a 55" 4k Vizio
for under $500 _3 years ago_ which I promptly returned when the included
remote did not let me adjust the TV's settings, they expected me to download
an app.

My only criteria for the replacement TV is that it have better picture quality
than the 10yo Samsung it is replacing.

------
Keverw
> Automakers, for example, can now expect to see bigger profits from the loans
> they make on selling cars than from selling the actual cars

I've heard of that. Then I heard dealers will give you a hard time if you want
to buy a car right out, some will even run your credit without your
permission. I don't have the money to go buy a new car right now, but it's
pretty sad that saving up and paying for things is so discouraged now. Then
dealerships in general people don't like or even lie to people, I guess one
told someone they were required to fill out a credit application by law even
if it doesn't get processed... So if your credit union or your own bank got
you financing, then want to try to undercut that. Then heard some dealership
someone was looking at new cars thinking of trading their car in, but changed
their mind but the dealer kept their keys a little longer trying to keep them
there. Seems like walking into a dealership is getting into a hostage
situation.

People are just putting everything on credit, a car they probably shouldn't of
bought and sits parked most of the time, people refinance their mortgages over
and over again so they'll probably never end up paying off their house. It's
insane how much debt is pushed... and also seems easier to get into student
debt than getting loans to start a small business.

Seems like the priorities are all off anymore and they want everyone to be in
debt. Then people with poor credit might end up paying double or more the
value of the car, someone I knew bought a used car and was going to end up
paying 4x the value of it... and then in some parts of the country if you
don't have a car, you don't have a job unless you live in one of the big
cities with public transport. Some areas don't even have sidewalks either, and
some people have attitudes against cyclists too since they paid more for their
car or SUV so they feel more entitled to the road. I guess whoever has the
best car is some sort of contest, but I can see why it draws people in.
Someone I know has got a new car every few years, now regrets doing that since
so much money they could of had saved up now.

~~~
russh
My local Ford dealer would not even talk about the price of a used car until
filled out paperwork and they ran a credit check without asking.

~~~
Keverw
That would be annoy me. I wish there wasn't a monopoly on new car sales. But I
wonder if places like CarMax are better even though they can only sell used
cars. Never been to one but see their commercials. Kinda like a mall for cars
instead of a specific brand.

Seems like medical and health stuff, and car buying there's no pricing
transparency and you are pushed around. I'm glad buying other stuff isn't as
bad though, imagine if buying toilet paper or a laptop required negotiating.

------
ksec
Exactly the reason why I wish Apple introduce Apple TV Set. Or partner with LG
where they sell the panel with a cable attached to Apple TV.

Instead we now have AppleTV App that lives inside the Android TV ecosystem,
and requires Internet connection which automatically sends data to who knows
where.

And I dont like having two remote to control my TV.

~~~
CharlesW
> _And I dont like having two remote to control my TV._

If your devices support HDMI-CEC[1] — my new-ish TV does, as does a Yamaha
receiver I purchased several years ago — your Apple TV (and therefore its
remote) can control everything.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Electronics_Control)

~~~
whitehouse3
CEC is flaky though. Not everything is compatible. There’s little good
documentation. It breaks randomly without obvious causes or predictable fixes.

If Apple made a box or a set of them with a proprietary interface that
competes with CEC I would buy in a heartbeat.

CEC is working well at my house. But for six months earlier this year, the
Apple TV remote could no longer power up the sound bar. One day it started
working again. But I live in fear of the call from my wife when it just stops
working entirely and she can’t figure out how to turn the TV on, much less the
sound system.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
Speaking as someone who has recently been involved with a very wide-scale
project using CEC (demo units for a major retailer here in the UK) I concur -
CEC is incredibly unreliable.

My project ran on a _very_ limited range of hardware from a well-known high
end manufacturer. I imagine it's even worse "in the wild".

------
nitwit005
I'm a bit skeptical that the income from the tracking/advertising makes up for
such a large drop in price.

~~~
deogeo
I'm sure they'll try to convince us that it does, so that we don't resist the
tracking too much.

------
aaron695
TV's have been dropping in price for of 70 years. There's no conspiracy.

Here's someone who made a list -

[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/why-is-tech-
getting-c...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/why-is-tech-getting-
cheaper/)

[https://imgur.com/gallery/W3ouE](https://imgur.com/gallery/W3ouE)

Every year everyone gets richer and better off, although it'd be nicer if the
true poor got a little more sped up.

~~~
draugadrotten
> it'd be nicer if the true poor got a little more sped up.

on a side note, that the poor are getting sped up is why there is so much
migration going on. When they get a little money, they are no longer content
to stay where they are, and they rather migrate to richer countries due to
lack of opportunities at home.

Hence, a future with fewer poor, will lead to huge social unrest in the
currently rich countries.

[https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/10/1049641](https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/10/1049641)

------
wefarrell
I wonder if we'll see a similar trend for speakers as they integrate with
Google Home and Alexa.

Currently people are willing to pay for virtual assistants but in the near
future subsidization is inevitable as the data collection and advertising
opportunities are too great.

------
BelleOfTheBall
Pretty cool article and highlights the problem of Smart TVs well. I don't
think I'll ever get a smart TV but I'm privileged in this because my husband
is fine with watching movies on a PC monitor and we don't plan to have kids so
it's not like we'll have someone in the house clamoring for Disney+ on a
separate big screen. Most households cave eventually because, admittedly, it's
sweet to get a huge screen with excellent picture quality for just a few
hundred.

My one gripe with the article itself is the introduction: "I’ve noticed
something exciting but sort of crazy". Claiming that TV prices dropping fast
is 'crazy' seems a bit funny. Prices drop for a lot of stuff though, I
suppose, some technology does stay in the same relative range. But it's
probably only until it reaches a certain quality point past which there's not
much to entice customers into high-end purchases.

~~~
eikenberry
You can get a smart TV and just not connect it to the internet. Even
lobotomized like this, they still work fine as normal TVs.

You can also get a smart device (Roku, Amazon Fire, etc.) and hook that up to
any TV to stream things (including Disney+). You can also just hook that
computer up and it would work as well (a TV is just a big monitor with sound).

So there is no need to ever "cave", even if you want streaming on a big screen
and don't want a smart TV.

~~~
wmf
_You can also get a smart device (Roku, Amazon Fire, etc.) and hook that up to
any TV_

Why should that device have any less spying or ads?

~~~
eikenberry
I was pointed out that they had options. Not what they should do to avoid
spying.

------
Animats
Vizio snooping system:

 _ACR collects data related to publicly available content displayed on your
television /display, such as the identity of your broadcast, cable, or
satellite television provider, and the television programs and commercials
viewed (including time, date, channel, and whether you view them live or at a
later time) . We also collect unique identifiers about this TV, including the
IP address. This data is collectively referred to as “Viewing Data .” ... When
ACR collection is turned on, we may share Viewing Data with authorized data
partners including analytics companies, media companies and advertisers. VIZIO
and its authorized data partners use Viewing Data to generate summary analysis
and reports of how users engage with content on their TVs and other devices.
VIZIO Viewing Data is sometimes enhanced with household demographic data and
data about digital actions (e.g. digital purchases and other consumer behavior
taken by devices associated with the IP Address we collect). Viewing Data also
enables our authorized data partners to deliver advertising relevant to your
profile that you might find useful, both on the VIZIO TV/display and other
devices sharing your IP Address. Viewing Data is also used to help content
publishers, broadcasters or content distribution services create or recommend
more relevant entertainment based on summary insights, as well as helps us
improve the design of our products, software and services . You can easily
turn this feature On or Off in the RESET & ADMIN menu. If you have trouble
enabling or disabling Viewing Data, please contact VIZIO Customer Support by
going to support.vizio.com ..._

------
habosa
Ok here's a question: why do I care? Watching TV has always been an experience
with ads in it. Netflix is going to know what I watch no matter what device I
use. In fact, my TV is probably the most private way for me to watch a
streaming service since it knows basically nothing else about me. So I got a
beautiful TV for an affordable price and the manufacturer made some more money
on ads in a way that I have not noticed. I'm cool with this trade.

~~~
DoingIsLearning
I see two major problems with this business model of subsidizing TV hardware
with adware/telemetry/spyware solutions:

1\. The UI platforms + middleware used for these TV's are often a low budget
MVP development (it's also not part of the core knowledge of manufacturers),
meaning you don't need to go far to find customers complaining of unresponsive
UIs and sudden crashes.

2\. The lifetime of the device far exceeds the likely manufacturer support for
the device's software. This means you will end up with an insecure unpatched
device connected to your home network.

Both these problems are resolved with a 'dumb' TV/Display, to which you
connect your media center of choice.

~~~
scarface74
Most of the lower end TVs have Roku integrated. While you might not like their
business model, Roku knows how to make a good set top UI on cheap hardware.

~~~
DoingIsLearning
I don't doubt what you say is true in the US retail landscape. Although the HW
will work anywhere, Roku as a service is very much a US centric business.

At least in Europe the options out of the box integrated in these 'smart' TVs
are either Android or some OEM crippled flavour of a nix distro.

Also we need to distinguish between released set top boxes from a triple-play
provider, and these 'inside' the TV half-baked software releases.

------
duelingjello
It's also why Amazon/Apple/Google/Roku/etc. basically gives away their
beachhead-building boxes that are launching-points for their content platforms
and integrations as cheaply as inkjet printers or razor handles. It's "razor
blade" economics of a near-zero marginal unit-cost service bought on a
subscription-basis, and analytics resold.

~~~
scarface74
At $179 for an AppleTV 4K, I wouldn’t say Apple is “giving it away”.

------
dehrmann
> If you buy a new TV today, you’re most likely buying a “smart” TV with
> software from either the manufacturer itself or a third-party company like
> Roku. The cut of the advertising revenue from those pre-installed video
> channels is big business for actual TV makers, as is the business of selling
> user viewing data and other information to marketers.

Is there a good open source smart tv firmware?

~~~
nsomaru
1\. Buy any affordable TV with a good panel

2\. Disable WiFi on the TV or block it at the network level

3\. Install Kodi on an old laptop or RPi. Serve cold over HDMI & prosper.

~~~
shantly
> 3\. Install Kodi on an old laptop or RPi. Serve cold over HDMI & prosper.

4\. Make sure it's an Rpi4, or the laptop's not _too_ old, if you plan to play
H.265 (HEVC) content, so you've got hardware decoding for it.

------
ratiolat
I have a 43" Panasonic plasma TV, which has THX certified display panel. Paid
about 800USD for it back 2013 I believe. I'd like to replace it with a LCD
one, but oh boy how much do the THX certified ones cost -
[https://www.thx.com/product-finder/](https://www.thx.com/product-finder/)

~~~
icebraining
THX is just for sound, right? Why not buy a cheaper TV and a separate
certified speaker set?

~~~
zamadatix
They have certifications for full home theatre including video (panels &
projectors) but you're paying more for the THX logo than for a guarantee you
actually bought the best option for the price since hardly anybody pays for
the cert.

------
nugget
I'm optimistic about the next 5 years of SmartTV market evolution. It's a
relatively new platform and as the devices reach certain market saturation
points (and play nicer with phones) I think we'll start to see a lot of really
interesting applications. They're also very cheap compared to other devices.

~~~
baroffoos
I think the concept of a smart TV is a good one its just the implementation is
always awful. It is useful to be able to stream content directly to your tv
but every single smart tv I have seen has a slugish UI, is awkward, has random
bugs, becomes unsupported by the OEM after a few years and is now insecure and
gets ransomware. And then OEMs crap it up themselves and fill the OS with
adverts and tracking.

After all that its just so much simpler to buy a tv thats just a dumb screen
and plug in a smart layer on top via hdmi.

~~~
amiga-workbench
I really like the Chromecast UX model, your TV is completely brainless, has no
native user interface, no cheap and nasty remote, and any of your other
devices boss it around like the dumb wireless monitor it should be.

~~~
scarface74
That’s actually a horrible model for TV. TV is often social. I would hate to
have to have my phone to control my TV. Not to mention when guests come over.
I’ll give someone else the remote, but not my phone.

~~~
amiga-workbench
I've never had to do that, guests get access to the playback controls while on
my network and are completely free to use their own phone to cast something
else to my TV if they wish. What they don't get access to is my own media
library.

------
netsharc
He mentioned cars. Can't wait until personalized ads show up in cars.. "visit
McDonald's drivethrough in 0.5 miles, buy your favorite, the McRib(TM), and
get a free drink with code xyz! Only 2 minute detour and the drivethrough
currently has 2 cars in it!". And it will have user profiles and knows the
driver's gender, etc, and shopping preferences. Child seat fitted since 2
months but weight sensor suggests no child on-board? "Discount at Walmart for
new parents! For example diapers 20 pieces for 5 dollars! Come on by and have
a relaxing shopping experience without the need to baby-wrangle!"

~~~
timw4mail
Gas pumps all seem to have video ads now.

~~~
thedaemon
Which is super annoying. They are really loud and hard to "ignore". I do my
best to ignore them.

------
deltron3030
You're not only buying a TV nowadays, you're buying a portal/frontend to goods
and services that earns the TV manufacturers a comission for your use and
data.

------
sys_64738
I remember we payed 300 quid for a 26" color TV in 1976.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
We inherited ours, it drew 500W according to the spec, I suspect it was worse
than that. The next one was 150W. The current one is down to 65W and doesn’t
even register on my meter on standby.

------
aklemm
A 27” inch CRT had fallen in price to about $300 15 years ago or so. Then the
flatscreens came and the price pressure cycle had to start over again.

------
shmerl
I'm waiting for HDMI cartel (run by major TV makers) to stop poisoning devices
with HDMI. Time to adopt DisplayPort everywhere.

~~~
zzo38computer
I don't like HDMI either, but I want Digi-RGB + analog audio + IMIDI (each on
a separate cable).

Still, stuff such as DisplayPort is at least better than HDMI, I suppose.

~~~
shmerl
I suppose something even more advanced like USB4 can bundle it all if needed.

~~~
zzo38computer
My own idea is to define a standard arrangement of the connectors, and allow
the cables to be clipped together; the user can then clip or unclip them if
wanted. That way you have the advantages of both: having separated cables, and
having all stuff in one cable.

------
jachee
My TV will never be on my network. I will _actively_ seek out, and pay a
premium for a "dumb" TV.

------
ojilles
I do not understand why the prices of these have not fallen to $0, in much the
same way an inktjet printer has. Or why the TV does not come as a freebie with
some kind of (cable, otherwise) content subscription.

(Disclaimer: I hate “smart” TVs)

~~~
derefr
Have you ever tried to sell a TV? Much like diamonds or cars, it seems that a
lot of their value derives from the "primary-market freshness guarantee." For
base-model TVs, the secondary-market price (e.g. the one you'd get at a pawn
shop) _is_ essentially zero.

People aren't really buying base-model TVs, though. Who wants a 30" 30Hz 720p
non-HDR display (let alone an old CRT or plasma TV), even for free? "I'd
rather watch shows on my phone than on that piece of junk" is a pretty common
thing to hear when someone is being offered one of these.

And so we still see, not only the primary-market markup effects, but also the
"leading edge" markup effects, where having to have all the best features
(larger size, 4K, HDR, 144Hz, OLED, curved display, etc.) that you don't
_have_ to have, makes the TV more expensive. (But not _that_ much more
expensive. Even with both of these markups, the average "good enough to watch
anything without downsampling" TV is still only $500.)

~~~
shantly
> Who wants a 30" 30Hz 720p non-HDR display (let alone an old CRT or plasma
> TV), even for free? "I'd rather watch shows on my phone than on that piece
> of junk" is a pretty common thing to hear when someone is being offered one
> of these.

That's exactly the kind of TV (and somewhat better, actually) that you can
thrift or find on Craigslist for free or so-cheap-it's-almost-free.

------
WalterBright
I remember when Curtis-Mathis advertised that they sold "the most expensive
television set you can buy, and darn well worth it."

I doubt anyone else remembers that, though :-)

------
Markoff
the article doesn't even make sense, 43" for 500USD was not cheap in 2016, I
was furbishing new apartment and paid 500EUR for 55" 4K TV in expensive
Europe, the article is not specific to US, prices of TV and consumer
electronics are falling everywhere in world

------
FraKtus
Does anybody know a honey pot to make those smart TVs connect to something
that will silence them?

------
jdlyga
I have a giant TCL Roku TV, and it's amazing. One remote for everything.
Highly recommended.

------
gscott
I bought a 58" inch tv from Walmart for $279 before tax. Works very well.

