
Why we fell for clean eating - ALee
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/11/why-we-fell-for-clean-eating
======
maxxxxx
The only qualification you need for food blogging is to be good looking (most
important) and to be young. I don't understand how these people have the guts
to tell other people how to live.

~~~
ktRolster
I think this quote from the article is relevant, too:

 _to understand how clean eating took hold with such tenacity, it’s necessary
first to consider just what a terrifying thing food has become for millions of
people in the modern world._

Getting good information on what foods to eat is really, really hard. Everyone
has an opinion, and the hard science hasn't quite solidified yet.

~~~
pasquinelli
It's only an issue because there's such a pervasive notion in our culture that
an individual cannot trust themselves. If I believed everything I was told I
would think that I'm incapable of feeding myself properly; dressing myself
properly; communicating with anyone, even those closest to me; raising my
children; even walking or running. "You need to defer to experts in order to
conduct your daily life", is the mantra chanted in a thousand little ways.

~~~
candiodari
How is this hard ? Go to your GP. He'll be glad to give you an introduction
and he'll know where to send you for more details.

Who knew ... medical info ... from a doctor.

It won't be what you want to hear. They'll tell you, for instance, to eat meat
or at least fish, and actively discourage vegetarianism, especially the more
extreme forms, like the more extreme forms of veganism. Generally just don't
go to extremes and VARY. And don't try to engineer yourself into a just-
barely-not-deficient diet.

He'll also tell you that even a partial-vegetarian diet is nice for adults,
but it won't do for kids. Otherwise, this can happen.

And here's the last bit of advice you'll get from them if they're up to date:
if you don't like this advice DO NOT go to a homeopathic "doctor", DO NOT go
to a "yogi", "guru", "blogger", magazine or whatever, NOT EVEN to actual
medical sources of info (you're not equipped to properly interpret), go to
another doctor (who will say the same as this one did of course). And before
you say this is stupid, read [1].

(the general advice is, be a vegetarian, but have a sin day where you have a
steak, or a fish, or chicken, and don't eliminate dairy (as in COW dairy, of
if you must goat) ...)

[1] [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/baby-dies-
die...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/baby-dies-diet-parents-
convicted-lucas-dendermonde-belgium-malnutrition-dehydration-a7790916.html)
(note: google something like "diet infant" or some such and you'll quickly
realize that this is in fact a pretty common occurrence)

~~~
pkroll
Doctors (at least, in the US...) actually get relatively little nutrition
training, compared to the actual experts, registered dietitians. You can find
one near you one their association web site: [http://www.eatright.org/find-an-
expert](http://www.eatright.org/find-an-expert)

------
coldtea
> _In the spring of 2014, Jordan Younger noticed that her hair was falling out
> in clumps. “Not cool” was her reaction. At the time, Younger, 23, believed
> herself to be eating the healthiest of all possible diets. She was a
> “gluten-free, sugar-free, oil-free, grain-free, legume-free, plant-based raw
> vegan”_

Sounds like the unhealthiest, most stupid diet you could have.

~~~
velobro
And why is it you think that?

~~~
saosebastiao
Well, for one, vegan without legumes or grains basically means zero protein.
Your body cannot survive on zero protein, as there are no amino acids
available to replace cells that die via their normal lifecycle.

------
joobus
The article first starts with:

> At its simplest, clean eating is about ingesting nothing but “whole” or
> “unprocessed” foods (whatever is meant by these deeply ambiguous terms).

Then despite acknowledging the definition is "deeply ambiguous" goes to great
lengths to prove it is wrong. It cites as evidence some very niche diets, but
I didn't see much in the way of an opposing view, for instance:

"Clean diets are good to an extent, but remember to drink at least 1 soda per
day. Also, supplement with some Totinos pizza rolls regularly for XX REASONS.
And finally don't forget to add a smidgen of ice cream made with the best high
fructose corn syrup with your salads, to ensure enough calories."

------
klondike_
Food quackery is the new medical quackery. A huge industry has been built on
selling snake oil foods to consumers that don't know any better.

Like the age of medical quackery, the reason this all exists is because people
simply aren't educated about their nutritional needs. They rely on bloggers
and advertisements to tell them what to eat, and that is often disastrous.

It shouldn't be this hard to educate the population about nutrition, and it's
made worse by excessive lobbying by the food industry. The food pyramid was
heavily influenced by lobbying, and the role of sugar in obesity was
downplayed significantly. As a result, the obesity rate keeps growing higher
and higher, giving more fuel to the food quackery industry.

~~~
extrapickles
Not only that but anyone can claim to be a nutritionist.

Going to a nutritionist is just like going to a toothlogist instead of a
dentist.

------
cko
I keep falling for it still. I go through phases of "eh everything is OK in
moderation, just sleep and eat vegetables" to "I can only eat sweet potatoes,
broccoli, and wild Alaskan salmon from now on." It depends on what I read - I
know that there are many studies that show no evidence of benefits from
'organic' or 'non-GMO' foods, for example, but most recently I came across
[http://theshawnstevensonmodel.com/](http://theshawnstevensonmodel.com/) and
my irrationality has gotten the better of me. He's just so charismatic.

~~~
novia
When you choose to eat organic foods it should be because you care about the
environment, not because you believe that it will cure ailments. Organic and
non-organic are nutritionally equivalent.

~~~
aaomidi
Organic food isn't necessarily better for the environment either. It takes a
lot more resources (land, manpower, etc) to produce Organic food.

------
oldandtired
When most people in the western world have no idea where their food comes from
and the processes that are required to get it to them then we have a problem.

Yesterday evening I spent time cleaning out the weeds in my vegetable gardens.
Just a couple of weeks ago, I killed, dressed and butchered the last of my
sheep.

My daughter teaches her children about gardening. My grandsons watched while I
dressed and butchered the sheep. They were fascinated by it. My granddaughter
was disappointed that she couldn't be there. So she will be with me when the
goat is done. She is looking forward to it.

They know how and where food comes from. They have an advantage that others
don't in that they will know how and what to do to obtain their food if it is
ever needed.

These are experiences that were passed down to my wife and me and we in tern
pass them to our children and grandchildren.

So many city dwellers have little or no concept of what is needed to give them
the things of modern civilisation and they are the poorer for it.

So many will recommend particular diets without ever comprehending what it
takes to get the ingredients to the table.

------
Mz
_There was something paradoxical about the way these books were marketed. What
they were selling purported to be an alternative to a sordidly commercial food
industry. “If it’s got a barcode or a ‘promise’, don’t buy it,” wrote Freer.
Yet clean eating is itself a wildly profitable commercial enterprise, promoted
using photogenic young bloggers on a multi-billion-dollar tech platform._

This is so bizarre. I see myself as someone who "eats clean," though nothing
in this article remotely resonates with me. For me, eating clean means I far
prefer Little Caesar's pizza to most other chain restaurants because they make
their dough fresh daily on site. It doesn't mean I live on kale balls or
whatever the fuck weirdness was listed in this article.

~~~
jacquesc
Little Caesar's, the cleanest of pizzas for sure!

------
ktRolster
The opening paragraph is cringe:

 _Younger, 23, believed herself to be eating the healthiest of all possible
diets. She was a “gluten-free, sugar-free, oil-free, grain-free, legume-free,
plant-based raw vegan”......Younger had sold more than 40,000 copies of her
own $25, five-day “cleanse”_

~~~
joobus
I feel the whole article was cringe. It kept creating the "clean" strawman,
valiantly slaying it with word vomit, then resurrecting the strawman with some
slight variation to be slayed again. Apparently, putting the adjective "clean"
before food makes "clean" a pejorative.

I also kept thinking "Brought to you by Monsanto" the whole time I read the
article.

~~~
ktRolster
Serious question: if you think the article was creating a "clean" strawman,
then to you, what is the actual definition of "eating clean?"

~~~
joobus
There isn't a generally agreed upon definition, and that is the point. Even
the author acknowledges this.

> At its simplest, clean eating is about ingesting nothing but “whole” or
> “unprocessed” foods (whatever is meant by these deeply ambiguous terms).

~~~
ktRolster
If you aren't clear of the definition of "eating clean," then let's ask, what
strawman do you think the author was knocking down?

~~~
joobus
Read the article.

First, it was raw veganism = clean eating.

Then, coconut oil = clean eating.

Then the alkaline diet = clean eating.

Gluten-free = clean eating.

Dairy free = clean eating.

Serious question: how can "we" agree we "fell" for something if we can't even
define what we are talking about?

~~~
khedoros1
I'd put all of those things under the umbrella of "clean eating". And barring
some other condition like celiac disease, a diagnosed gluten intolerance, or
lactose intolerance, they all seem like pointless dietary restrictions, but
there _are_ a lot of people who will buy something just because it's
advertised as "gluten-free".

------
papa-whisky
I find it somewhat hypocritical that this is in The Guardian, considering that
they frequently publish the kind of questionable nutritional advice that the
article lambasts.

------
peterwwillis
People even used to drink distilled water as a health fad in the 70's. People
are stupid.

------
muninn_
> Families who would once have eaten potato waffles are now experimenting with
> lower carb butternut “squaffles” (slices of butternut squash cut to resemble
> a waffle).

Why is that bad again? I'm a vegetarian, or at least, I do my best to minimize
my impact on the destruction of life (nobody is perfect). I don't like "clean
eating" and I don't like all the GMO hysteria, but I do think you should try
and eat as few processed foods as possible not only because of your health,
but because of some of the extraneous benefits. Eating "raw" foods means you
tend to cook more, pay more attention to what you're eating, and be more in
tune with where your food comes from. All the Instagram (I still can't believe
people use products like Instagram and follow 'gurus' it makes me sick) diet
fads are nonsense. It's ok to eat a burger and fries once in awhile, but spend
more time eating food that you know what's in it, you know where it comes
from, and you cook yourself. Food shouldn't be a lifestyle choice or virtue-
signaling.

