
NYC Subway Trains Might Start Moving Faster - daegloe
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/10/nyregion/new-york-subway-delay.html
======
gen220
I remember reading the article linked in this one, from the Village Voice, at
the beginning of this year. Strongly recommend reading it for you armchair MTA
critics: it has a lot of tinder for your tirades.

[https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/03/13/the-trains-are-
slowe...](https://www.villagevoice.com/2018/03/13/the-trains-are-slower-
because-they-slowed-the-trains-down/)

If my memory serves me well, it made a pretty convincing argument that the MTA
was deliberately and publicly misconstruing the "slow train problem" as a
result of "congestion", effectively blaming the success of the city for the
failure of its public transportation. The Voice article rendered this
commonly-touted line of defense not just misleading, but flagrantly incorrect.

From my perspective, it seems that the reversal of policy reported now, only
came into existence because of the line of investigative reporting that began
with the Village Voice piece.

Credit for your commute's speedup probably belongs, at least in part, to the
Voice's fantastic investigative reporting (a full 2 months before the linked
NYT piece). Even more reason to support your local journalists! :)

~~~
yostrovs
Too late for the Village Voice. It has been effectively shut down. Will there
be any real reporting left once Google and Facebook are finished organizing
the world's information?

------
melling
“Over the summer, Mr. Byford created a new “speed unit” — a three-person team
that traveled every mile of track on the system in an empty train to find
areas where trains could safely move faster. The team identified 130 locations
where the speed limit should be increased. So far, a safety committee at the
transit agency has approved 34 locations for speed increases.”

There are almost 100 other possible locations.

------
mabbo
> Workers recently started to change speed limit signs on the first segment on
> the Fourth Avenue line in Brooklyn between 36th Street and 59th Street.
> Overall, officials plan to change the speed limits at 100 locations by the
> spring.

The real problem here, as I see it, is that humans are still involved in
running the trains. We need speed signs for them to read, we need to hope they
follow the rules, we need them to control the train as best a human can.
Plenty of cities in the world are running autonomous trains. It's not easy to
do, but it is doable. Retrofitting existing trains would be a difficult
project, I imagine, but worth the cost.

How much more efficiency could we gain just by shaving those half seconds (or
more) at every single start, stop, door open, door close, etc?

I don't even think we need to fire the operators (I'm certain their union
would object anyway) so much as change their role to one of managing the
autonomous train, providing first aid when needed, keeping a human watch on
things.

~~~
sotojuan
MTA's union is heavily opposed to anything that will result in less jobs. Even
with the CBTC system that is mostly automated they put two people in the train
instead of just one.

I'm pro union and worker's right but the MTA definitely fits lot of the
negative stereotypes of unions.

~~~
isostatic
London's Central Line is automated, however there's still a driver, who
presses "go" and opens/closes the doors. More importantly they're also there
for if something bad happens or they need to take over.

Is the MTA different?

------
hamilton
This New Yorker piece on Andy Byford provides a lot more context for why the
MTA is the way that it is:

[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/07/09/can-andy-
byfor...](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/07/09/can-andy-byford-save-
the-subways)

~~~
stuxnet79
Andy did a great job with the Toronto transit. I feel like his work is cut out
for him in NYC as MTA looks like a complete shit show from both a political
and fiscal standpoint (relative to TTC). I wish him good luck.

------
snissn
My armchair / layperson issue with the subway infrastructure is that a lot of
the issues around delays and especially the L train upgrades are related to
antiquated signaling systems that seem to not at all acknowledge all of the
updates to telecommunications that have been developed in the last 100 years.

~~~
yostrovs
I attribute the highly expensive nature of NYC subway to politics, since
similar services don't have overall cost anywhere near what New Yorkers pay in
fees and taxes. The new chief of the MTA is asking for $40 billion to upgrade
the system. They should be able to build three new New York subway systems
from scratch with that kind of money.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
I would be very interested to see an analysis of exactly why laying track in
NYC is more expensive than in other cities/countries. "Politics" is a very
nebulous reason—if that is indeed the cause—I'd love to see more detail on
_where_ in our political system, and why, etc.

I'm sure part of the problem is that subway workers in NYC are well-paid, but
that's probably not all of it.

~~~
hapless
Fraud, waste, and the worlds worst purchasing work.

NYCT workers are well paid, but that is only an explanation for high operating
expense, not obscene capital expenses.

Operating expense is really fairly well managed, albeit with unusually high
wages. It is a small, small part of the subway’s problems.

~~~
vkou
The unusually high wages can also be attributed to a city with an incredibly
high cost of living, and large number of overtime hours.

Train conductor base pay is $23-30 an hour - the six-figure salaries that you
read about are for people doing >40h/week, including night shift/holiday/on-
call work.

I generally think that it's reasonable that people who do more work get paid
more then people who do less work... Or that people doing the same work during
hardship hours get paid more then people doing their 9-5.

------
monksy
Sounds like the MTA is slowing down due to poor maintenance and a lack of
active management.

------
dajohnson89
Can't read TFA b/c paywall.

A low maximum speed is not what's responsible for the MTA's deteriorating
service levels. The problems are mainly signal issues and train
malfunctions[0]. To a lesser extent, track fires. This begets the question --
what good is a marginal top speed increase, if so many trains arent reaching
their top speed anyways? At least 30% of the time during my rush-hour MTA
commute, my train is crawling through the tunnel, well under its current
maximum speed. Think tortoise and hare.

Also -- higher max speed might mean harder stops. [0]
[https://ny.curbed.com/2018/9/17/17869218/nyc-subway-
signal-p...](https://ny.curbed.com/2018/9/17/17869218/nyc-subway-signal-
problems-delays-riders-alliance)

~~~
calebegg
The change isn't to the top speed, it's to mis-configured time signals that
forced trains to slow to a crawl unnecessarily.

In this article (which you probably also won't be able to read, sorry; try
incognito?), the Times explains why some mis-configured time signals are the
cause of many delays, with compelling evidence to back up the claim.

[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/09/nyregion/subw...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/09/nyregion/subway-
crisis-mta-decisions-signals-rules.html)

~~~
cimmanom
Right. Plus how often is an entire line backed up because the operator _didn
't_ crawl slowly enough past that misconfigured signal, so the emergency brake
got triggered and additional action had to be taken to get the train moving
again (release from dispatch? crew sent out?), causing thousands of people
systemwide to be "delayed because of a signal problem at 14th St" or whatever?

------
kevin_thibedeau
I've been suspicious that MTA has being keeping the speeds down as a cost
savings means to reduce energy consumption. Same with "Sandy repairs" causing
service reductions that they won't compensate for on parallel lines.

Their other favorite BS excuse it that delays are caused by people holding
doors open. But that doesn't hold water either when uncrowded trains still
have the doors malfunction and reopen multiple times.

Pre-Byford management seems to have been controlling their burn rate with
these shenanigans. Otherwise the system should be able to handle 1948
ridership levels.

~~~
iooi
This article explains the slow speeds pretty well:
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/09/nyregion/subw...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/09/nyregion/subway-
crisis-mta-decisions-signals-rules.html)

Basically, it boils down to heavy consequences for operators that go too fast
coupled with systems that measure speed inconsistently.

