
China Detains Former U.S. Air Force Pilot Flying for FedEx - smaili
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fedex-pilot-detained-by-police-in-southern-china-sources-11568906801?mod=rsswn
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iamtheworstdev
And at a minimum they knew he is former military thanks to that huge OPM hack
several years ago. As he would have shown up on the list along with having a
security clearance.

~~~
squarefoot
Very likely. They needed a pawn for the economic war against the US and took
the first opportunity; the arrest for carrying airsoft pellets seems the only
pretext they could find.

~~~
knzhou
A billion people is a lot. Does literally every action taken by anybody in
China have to be part of a government plot? Do you honestly think that this
tiny, random event is going to have any bearing on trade negotiations, or are
you just looking to ascribe any sinister motive you can?

~~~
throwaway1997
Yes it is calculated. Arbitrary arrests of foreign nationals in China usually
ramp up in direct proportion to escalations in political disputes between
China and their country of nationality.

~~~
knzhou
Do you have actual statistics on that, or is this another one of those claims
supported entirely by one-off cherry picked examples? Have you considered that
it is instead the _reporting_ of detentions, thousands of which occur
worldwide daily, that is skewed to match current tensions?

~~~
squarefoot
Just to be clear, I'm not an US citizen, I've never been in the US nor plan to
go there anytime soon and have no reasons to defend their government
interests. So why do I think that arrest was part of a plot to gain a pawn to
be used in exchange of something wrt the economic war between US and China?
Because the weapon motivation is utter ridiculous! I can buy knives, steel
balls, nunchakus, shurikens and swords any day from Chinese eShops, but
apparently a bag of plastic balls (airsoft pellets are nothing more than small
plastic balls) represents some national security issue for them. Seriously
folks, am I supposed to believe that the same people who identified, followed
and arrested a former US military pilot are so dumb to think a bag of plastic
balls represent a national security issue? I'm not either defending the US nor
bashing China here, just pointing the obvious as this happens everywhere:
powers make the laws then bend them according to their needs. It's common
people who is getting screwed, everywhere and everytime. That's just how power
works: the Chinese govt will leverage that capture to gain something from
Trump, Trump will lower the tariffs to get the poor ex pilot back home and
that's it; corporations which outsourced to China will cheer Trump for helping
their business and people will do the same for bringing back the hero home.
Seen a million times.

~~~
knzhou
> So why do I think that arrest was part of a plot to gain a pawn to be used
> in exchange of something wrt the economic war between US and China? Because
> the weapon motivation is utter ridiculous!

You are a new hire at the US-Mexico border control. One day a suspicious
looking guy passes through, and you find a ton of white powder in his
suitcase. You look him up in a database and find he has previously been
charged with drug possession. You have been warned by your higher-ups that
many people have recently trying to get through precisely your station
smuggling drugs. So you detain him out of caution, but it turns out, for some
weird reason, he just wanted to ship a suitcase full of baking soda to the US!

So since baking soda is totally harmless, this obviously means that your
action must have been part of a plot on the US's part to put pressure on
Mexico to fund the wall, right? What other explanation could there possibly
be?

I have, of course, just gone through the article paragraph by paragraph and
changed the subject to America. (Also, I am a US citizen.) No doubt, events
like this happen constantly, and nobody cares, because mistakes happen. Only
when the subject is China is everything a grand conspiracy.

> That's just how power works: the Chinese govt will leverage that capture to
> gain something from Trump

It doesn't actually work like this. Detentions happen constantly on all sides.
One detention does not do anything to affect policy. I would bet that after a
week this guy will be back home, to absolutely no consequence in the trade
war, and you'll never hear about it in the news because it doesn't cause
enough fear.

Ascribing the most sinister possible motives to everything a foreigner does is
something that _feels_ sophisticated and intellectual. But it's not. It's the
oldest cognitive bias that exists. It is from the stone age and it will take
us back.

~~~
ericd
Baking soda:Cocaine::plastic pellets:???

~~~
AstralStorm
Liquid or solid explosive. (Very unlikely but possible.)

It's of course totally dumb. Might as well arrest anyone carrying rice in
their pockets.

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tepidandroid
Just so we're clear, HN users find a story about China temporarily detaining a
US pilot to be top-of-front-page relevant, but the story about the US bombing
30 innocent farmers in Afghanistan gets flagged to death.

~~~
HNKER
Because there are many HN users that work in China or do business in China.
This might be a good warning to US citizens to stay out of China.

~~~
knzhou
Most such stories fall apart after a little prodding. Almost always,
detentions are either dumb mistakes, quickly reversed, or the result of actual
lawbreaking. Often you read a little further and it's like, "well yes, the
drugs I was selling were technically against Chinese law, but..."

However, that is not as fun a conclusion as joining in on bashing the
outgroup.

~~~
jhanschoo
This may be that, and is most likely that for most other countries, but the
PRC has a history of disappearances and detainment under false charges, along
with elements of the whole Stalin theater. This is why many are immediately
more concerned when something like this happens in China than in say,
Switzerland.

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scrumbledober
By "nonmetallic pellets used in low-power replica air guns" are they referring
to airsoft BB's?

~~~
camhenlin
Yeah that is absolutely what it sounds like to me, these are toys that many
people played with as children or would be willing to give to children to play
with. Pretty harmless unless it catches you in the eye. They are specifically
designed to not be dangerous. I've never heard of any other type of air-fired
plastic pellets at least. Pretty enraging and hopefully Mr. Hohn is able to
make it back to American soil very soon

~~~
scrumbledober
I can totally understand some repercussions if he had been attempting to fly
with an airsoft gun, but small plastic balls? This is just absurd.

~~~
Taniwha
He was transporting the IN to Hong Kong, I can understand that being a
sensitive topic right now

~~~
jethro_tell
The what now?

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williamchangnpu
Accroding to Chinese law, airsoft BB is illegal, that might sound absurd, but
it is the law. And it is selectively enforced. There are stories that people
get penalty just for selling toy guns,
[http://news.sina.com.cn/pl/2016-12-31/doc-
ifxzczfc6640913.sh...](http://news.sina.com.cn/pl/2016-12-31/doc-
ifxzczfc6640913.shtml\(2016) in Chinese). It cause some discussion and debate
on the internet and within the law realm, but by 2018 the supreme court gave
some guidance for such case.
[https://www.spp.gov.cn/xwfbh/wsfbt/201803/t20180328_372604.s...](https://www.spp.gov.cn/xwfbh/wsfbt/201803/t20180328_372604.shtml#1)
Personally I don't think it is a leverage for the trade war, the laws in China
is not so mature as in US, and tend to be more tough when it involves guns.
edited for spelling error.

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112012123
This is definitely politically motivated. I was with a (Chinese citizen)
friend when airport security found a few rounds of ammunition in her baggage,
and the guards just shrugged and confiscated it. No further issues.

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killjoywashere
This is what you can do when you have all the background investigations for
the US government. You don't need any evidence of wrongdoing. You have prima
facia evidence the person could be a military operative. Military on foreign
soil is _big_ deal and US may find themselves with little recourse other than
routine diplomatic channels.

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arcticbull
As a Canadian I can't really justify vacationing in the PRC at the moment,
given I'd like to avoid mining minerals for the rest of my life. I mean, I'm
sure I'd look great when (if?) I got out.

Seriously between this and the other exit bans, it's not looking great.

~~~
jaimex2
Why would anyone vacation in China? There are so many better options in Asia.

~~~
nostrademons
There's a long cultural history to China. Great Wall, Tiananmen Square, Terra
Cotta Army, Hutongs, Yangtze River, Three Gorges, authentic Chinese cuisine
that will probably make you sick to your stomach, Guilin, Pearl River, Hong
Kong, and many other places.

I'm really glad I went back in 2006 before national governments started
getting snippy with each other and their citizens. I wouldn't go _now_ because
I don't really like the idea of being imprisoned without trial, but if you
ignore the politics there's a lot to experience in China.

~~~
dontbenebby
>There's a long cultural history to China. Great Wall, Tiananmen Square,

Congrats, mentioning that last bit got you arrested and the consulate can't
help since you technically broke PRC law.

~~~
patch_cable
Tiananmen Square is a major tourist destination in China. It’s on the subway
signs. No one is pretending the square doesn’t exist.

~~~
dontbenebby
>Tiananmen Square is a major tourist destination in China. It’s on the subway
signs. No one is pretending the square doesn’t exist.

Parent mentioned the "cultural history" of the square, which is edging to the
no go zone.

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no_opinions
This is the kind of stuff better foreign relations would smooth out nicely.
You'd never see a news headline. There'd be zero drama.

How do you have better foreign relations? Better compatibility between legal
systems would be a start. What sense is their putting a westerner up against a
socialist legal system? They're not citizens. I can only imagine how much this
man is being traumatized by this.

Reading material on China's criminal justice system (pdf):
[https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...](https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1161&context=jj_pubs)

China has different types of detainment. It doesn't specify if he's in the
administrative kind or the one facing much more serious repercussions.

This is just one area where China's incompatibility is going to end up costing
it. You don't see the intellectual property stolen / royalties, and people who
would potential bring wealth _to_ China if they weren't so stubbornly
insistent on maintaining an oligarchy.

Who is China's gov really working for? Nobody knows, it's so opaque. But if
their system - which they subject their own citizens and foreigners alike to -
was so humane and just, why not show the innards of it to demonstrate the
virtuosity and benevolence of it?

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greesil
When I was in China back in the day, a friend bought a realistic-looking bb
pistol and probably a few hundred rounds from a crap market. We probably could
have robbed a store with it. I'm rather skeptical that this stuff is actually
illegal.

~~~
pas
It depends. For example in Beijing (and probably in other big cities) you
can't carry a knife, but in a small town you can.

The laws are a jungle everywhere :/

The detainment is the worrying part here.

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HillaryBriss
what percentage of FedEx pilots are ex-military?

~~~
paulmd
I don't know if it's a majority, it may be, but it's at least a large
minority.

Airlines (both passenger and freight) don't want to pay to train their own
pilots, so their staffing pipelines rely heavily on ex-military pilots.

Many military and passenger aircraft share a basic airframe, for example the
KC-135 is a 707 configured as a tanker for aerial refueling. Even the
instances that are not - it would be relatively straightforward to transition
from, say, a C-17 to a 767 or something like that.

So pilots tend to retire from the USAF and fly the friendly skies with
civilian airliners.

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Leary
"HONG KONG—Chinese authorities have detained a FedEx Corp. pilot in the
southern city of Guangzhou, elevating pressure on the express shipping giant
that is already in Beijing’s crosshairs amid a U.S.-China trade war.

The pilot, a former U.S. Air Force colonel named Todd A. Hohn, was detained a
week ago while waiting for a commercial flight to his home in Hong Kong after
flying deliveries throughout Asia from the FedEx regional hub in Guangzhou,
people familiar with the matter said.

A lawyer for the Hohn family in Niceville, Fla., confirmed that Mr. Hohn had
been detained in China. He was a wing commander at the Altus Air Force Base in
Oklahoma until 2017.

Reached briefly at his hotel room Thursday, Mr. Hohn identified himself to a
reporter and then referred all questions to a family lawyer and discontinued
the phone call. He is married and a father, the people familiar with the
matter said.

When he was detained, Mr. Hohn was carrying nonmetallic pellets used in low-
power replica air guns in a checked bag, the people said. Chinese authorities
have alleged that Mr. Hohn was illegally transporting ammunition and have
begun a criminal investigation, the people said."

~~~
steve19
So they detained him and then found a reason: plastic BBs in a checked bag.
Less dangerous than the plastic knives they serve with food in the cabin.

China strictly controls ammunition inside China. There is no way plastic BBs
are considered ammunition.

... But if China does they better stop the illegal export of BBs and airsoft
guns to the USA. Taiwan will happily increase production.

~~~
GhettoMaestro
If only they cared that much about the illicit fentanyl production in their
country. Oh wait, it isn't illicit, it is state-sanctioned.

~~~
vonseel
Fuck fentanyl. It is a huge problem in America. I’m sick of hearing about
people overdosing from this drug.

~~~
serf
>Fuck fentanyl

the perspective that somehow it's the drugs fault is both damaging to the
recovery effort, the effort to reduce harm to the general public, and damaging
to those of us with chronic pain that find fentanyl to be a solution to their
woes.

Point the blame where it belongs.

Fuck under-regulation, over-prescription, greedy doctors, broken medical
systems, for-profit care, and systematic government abuse.

~~~
cj
That line of thinking is also used to argue against gun control. “Don’t blame
the guns”

But whether or not you subscribe to that thinking, most people can agree that
it would be great if China stepped in to do something to control the illicit
export of Fentanyl (keyword: illicit, as in not fentanyl used for legitimate
medical purposes).

~~~
xwolfi
Why isn't there a Fentanyl problem in China, Europe, Africa ?

Are you SURE China has the ability to save america from under-regulation,
expensive healthcare, for profit doctors etc ?

~~~
cj
I’m not sure what you’re implying.

No, China controlling their fentanyl output won’t solve the problem in
America. Making health insurance less expensive won’t solve the problem.
Regulating more won’t solve the problem. Eliminating profit doctors won’t
solve the problem.

But all of them would -help- contribute toward improving the situation.

------
est
ITT: People got angry over a passenger got detained in a third-world country
for bullshit reasons

