

Netherlands makes net neutrality a law - Suraj-Sun
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13886440

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jrnkntl
Old news. Since that time mobile data subscriptions went up in price with all
dutch providers: reason? "data usage for whatsapp and skype etc wasnt
accounted for in the initial prices". Also, last month a judge ruled that two
ISPs need to block The Pirate Bay. What's that about net neutrality?

~~~
kalleboo
Well it makes sense, doesn't it? The costs for a mobile network provider are
largely fixed and not really tied to consumption (it's maintenance and
predictable/steady network upgrades).

Calls and SMS don't really cost the network anything (aside from inter-network
fees). They're priced in such a way so that with the assumed amount of
customers, they'll recoup their fixed costs. If people stop making calls and
sending SMS, they lose that predicted income and have to recoup it from other
sources (either the fixed monthly fees, data fees, or tacking on bullshit
service charges).

~~~
jrnkntl
Of course it makes sense; when you stick a price on a new service and find out
a couple of years into selling that service that the price you put on it
doesn't level with the costs you are making to maintain it. Then you need to
level it; moral issues aside (some say the ISPs lured clients in with low
prices only to raise them after they were in), that's the way it works. But
then again, just raise the price, and do not block certain ports and sell it
as a 'mobile internet' subscription or charge extra for 'certain kinds' (e.g.
skype, whatsapp) of data usage.

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zimmen
This might look nice but sadly this kind of reasoning by Dutch parlament isn't
consistent at all!

\- For some reason Google is allowed to act like "a postal worker who delivers
a letter, looks to see what's in it, and then claims he hasn't read it."

\- Judges can rule blocking of websites (like they did with the pirate bay).

\- Mobile operator fees are unregulated an artificially kept way too high.

\- We pay a regulatory fee for every empty CD, DVD or Tape we buy because we
just _might_ use it to put copyrighted stuff onto it.

There is no straight line of thinking when it comes to this kind of law.

~~~
perfunctory
What does it mean to be "artificially too high"?

~~~
dchest
Result of cartel?

~~~
perfunctory
cartels tend to fall apart eventually.

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rickmb
Very old news. Still, a very relevant object lesson in how this has come
about. Not because the Netherlands is so progressive in tech legislation, but
because of a few greedy mobile telecom operators were stupid and arrogant
enough to offer politicians an easy scoring opportunity.

This also explains why despite this apparently progressive stand on net
neutrality, there has been virtually no upheaval surrounding the court order
to block the Pirate Bay, or the government support for ACTA.

Net neutrality in the Netherlands was a political "accident", not a sign of a
certain political climate. Neither Dutch politicians nor the Dutch media
really give a shit about digital civil rights.

~~~
hobin
"Neither Dutch politicians nor the Dutch media really give a shit about
digital civil rights."

O.o

Where do you get your information about Dutch politicans and the media? When a
judge ruled that XS4ALL and Ziggo should block TPB, it caused an uproar in The
Hague. Ok, said uproar wasn't that bad, but most oppositional parties (D66,
PvdA, GroenLinks and SP) together introduced a motion about the issue, and
were very much against it. Given that the PVV approved of the motion, and
recently called the blockage 'censure', I can say without a doubt that msot
politicians in the Netherlands 'give a shit' about digital civil rights.

As for the media, I don't see where you got that, either. Pretty much anything
that concerns digital media rights and the Netherlands gets printed in most
major newspapers here.

Not that there aren't some things in politics here that I think are stupid,
but digital civil rights isn't what I'd think of first.

~~~
rickmb
"uproar in The Hague". Are you kidding me? Only the PVV made a bit of noise,
but that's the same PVV that did a 180 on ACTA. As if anybody takes them
seriously.

PvdA have sold out our rights every time they where in power. The SP has
already shown itself in favor of internet censorship on several occasions
(yes, even when it came to supporting the copyright mafia, that's the
"socialist" party for you).

Pirate Bay will be blocked, and nothing else will happen. The only hope is not
having a corrupted judge on the appeal, because the media will drop the story
after tomorrow, and so will the politicians. And we'll be stuck with yet a bit
less freedom on top of everything they've taken away over the past few
decades.

Net neutrality was the only real win, _ever_ , in the past 20 years. The rest
has all been a downhill slope.

We are the country that wiretaps its citizens on the largest scale of any
western nation. We have implemented a public transport system that allows us
to trace people's comings and goings. The media has swept most of that under
the rug, just like it has swept ACTA under the rug.

And it's not just digital civil rights that is a low priority in the
Netherlands, it's civil rights in general. Look at how we are now an ID-card
carrying nation without much protest.

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enry_straker
Congrats, Holland. Way to go.

Hopefully this will spur europe to move forward, as a union, to enshrine net
neutrality into law, and hopefully prod the US into action.

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ineedtosleep
FYI Holland != Netherlands.

~~~
skrebbel
Nonsense. For all international intents and purposes, Holland and Netherlands
are the same thing. The fact that "Holland" originally refers to only a part
of the country is really off the mark when talking to foreigners; many
languages don't even have a word for "the Netherlands" and simply call it
something that sounds like "Holland" (e.g. Polish, Icelandic, Malay, etc). Or,
more often, there _is_ an official word for "The Netherlands", such as
"Alankomaat" or "Países Bajos", but nobody ever uses it, often does not even
understand the word.

I really wish my fellow countrymen would stop this nomenclature chauvinism.
It's really just a symptom of an inferiority complex from the less populated
regions of the country (traditional "Holland" roughly coincides with where the
major cities are). Get over it already.

(disclaimer: I've always lived outside traditional "Holland" myself)

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thomholwerda
And ironically enough, the court-ordered block of The Pirate Bay just went
into effect in The Netherlands as well (For Ziggo, at least; XS4ALL follows
tomorrow).

~~~
pietro
Ironically? Both laws are about the government taking control of the internet.

~~~
hobin
The TPB blockage is not about the government, but about the record companies
protecting their interests (read: screwing pretty much everyone else over).

Arguably, net neutrality is about the government 'taking control' over the
internet, but I don't think what's being done here is necessarily a bad thing.
Here, the government is clearly protecting the freedom of the people. And yes,
that means there is a little less freedom for the big companies. I'm fine with
that.

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mvzink
Man. Nostalgia for the old debates about net neutrality just kicked in, and it
really pales in comparison to e.g. the SOPA hearings.

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akie
Proud of my country! Let's hope other countries follow suit quickly.

