
Jellyfish Genome Hints That Complexity Isn’t Genetically Complex - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/blog/jellyfish-genome-hints-that-complexity-isnt-genetically-complex
======
Angostura
An interesting book was published by Brian Goodwin about 20 yesrs ago now -
How the Leopard Changed it spots.

Some people thought of it as an attack on natural selection, but it really
wasn't. It was a fascinating look at how the inherent properties of matter
could lead to patterns (such as spiral arrangement of leaves or zebra stripes)
without intervention from natural selection

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Leopard-Changed-Its-
Spots/dp/07...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Leopard-Changed-Its-
Spots/dp/075380171X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547720455)

~~~
airstrike
Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for sharing

------
will_brown
>You might expect that as bodies became more complex, genomes did as well.

I bring this up in threads about diet/nutrition (and always get down voted).

But the idea is humans have about 20,000 protein coding genes and something as
simple as wheat has estimated 150,000 to 334,000.

Where I get downvotes is the concept/hypothesis (not mine) that the
explaination rests with the microbiome (which we have and something like wheat
doesn’t).

I’d be interested in learning if _complex_ creatures like jellyfish with
_simple_ genomes have a complex microbiome.

~~~
hutzlibu
hint: complaining about downvotes usually just gets more downvotes

just add what insight you have and then the crowd decides if they care, like
or dislike

~~~
will_brown
I’m not complaining, just acknowledging for the sake of preempting the attacks
of comments about microbiome.

Almost any comment in a discussion about diet/nutrition is bound to get
downvoted (at least on HN). People are probably bound to downvote anything
about the microbiome for the same reasons. Yet we know the microbiome is
responsible for turning (at least some) genes on/off, and otherwise our study
of the microbiome is in its infancy.

I’d rather have someone reply about the jelly fish microbiome, if any, than
explaination of HN social norms. The cool thing about HN is you might get some
expert, in this case a marine biologist lurking, not the social norms.

~~~
jhedwards
If you haven't already, you might be interested to read some of Lynn Margulis'
work. She was a big proponent of the idea that symbiosis is an overlooked
source of speciation. In a book of hers I read recently she emphasized how
complex organisms like humans depend on a huge foundation of other simpler
organisms. You might find some interesting fuel for your ideas in her books.

------
cproctor
Reading this, I was reminded of Herb Simon's "Sciences of the Artifical,"
which makes the point that often complexity is the result of interaction with
the environment. His example is of an ant walking through sand. The ant
follows a complex path, even though its behavior is governed by simple rules.
This seems like the same lesson, at another level.

------
karmakaze
This is a great discovery and opens up a good research area for
experimentation. Coming from a math/computer background this result doesn't
seem so surprising. Sometimes we can get complex results with very simple
rules like cellular automata. It's the opposite result to having many genes
change randomly with little resulting change in behaviour. Both can happen. We
have yet to know if this was just by chance or if their was a more efficient
mechanism in play.

~~~
j7ake
It's not a surprise that the number of genes does not determine complexity of
an organism.

The humble C. elegans (roundworm) has ~20000 genes, similar to humans.

The complexity comes with the regulation of these genes, which are in the
noncoding regions of DNA.

~~~
j16sdiz
The question is: how organism evolve complexity if no new genes are added?

You can regulate the genes to "disable" the complexity, but those genes need
to be there in the first place....

~~~
0-_-0
Check out Saplosky's lectures on Youtube, he deals with this question.
Particularly this one:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dRXA1_e30o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dRXA1_e30o)

------
matthoiland
Here's the obligatory link to Conways Game of Life.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life)

>Scholars in various fields, such as computer science, physics, biology,
biochemistry, economics, mathematics, philosophy, and generative sciences have
made use of the way that complex patterns can emerge from the implementation
of the game's simple rules

------
d--b
Humans developing intelligence is a better example of complexity that arose
from small differences in genome.

Jellyfish aren't that fancy, right? From what I understood they're like a
stomach and some kind of "muscle" that make them go up or down. They've got
some poisonous chemicals and other things, but plants do have this too.
Jellyfish remind me of the 2-neuron "neural network" that can play flappy bird
:-)

