
Hardship on Mexico's farms, a bounty for U.S. tables - dreamweapon
http://graphics.latimes.com/product-of-mexico-camps
======
elchief
Strange article for the normally Libertarian crowd here.

Why would a worker work at one of these farms? Because it's better, or they
think it's better, than their best alternative. The same reason that many
Chinese workers work at factories now instead of farms.

As Krugman would say "Bad jobs at bad wages are better than no jobs at all".
[http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/19...](http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/1997/03/in_praise_of_cheap_labor.html)

Before you think I'm an asshole, I am very much looking forward to the time
when everyone has the standard of living that we enjoy in "the West", but you
don't get there by charity or boycotts.

The main problem is that they probably get lied to, so think it's better than
their best alternative, when it's not.

What can HN readers do about that? Off the top of my head, you could contact
the reporter, and make a website (in Spanish) with the good farms, and the bad
ones, so at least a few farmers could avoid the bad ones. Or let the farmers
post reviews and ratings. Yelp for Mexican farms. Support cheap internet in
Mexico. Support the Mexican equivalent of the ACLU.

Better information is the answer.

~~~
jjoonathan
Information can't solve a supply-demand imbalance.

~~~
chii
what's this supply-demand problem of which you speak?

------
codeshaman
This injustice is not only happening in Mexico and not only on farms. The same
stories exist in every 'non-western' country which produces stuff for the
western world. Farms, clothing, mining, electronics...

Stuff that we throw away once we get bored of it. There's nothing particularly
special about us in the western world, our only merit is having been born
here.

And all this is because we've created and maintain a culture of hedonistic
pleasure seeking on a massive scale. We've made 'luxury' the primary object of
desire in our society, the path to happiness (it's not, but that's a different
story).

A 'consumer' is a nice word for 'a person transforming natural resources into
garbage'.

That's why those people are living through hardship - so we can take the
resources and turn them into garbage, while obtaining some amount of pleasure
(or comfort) in the process.

A person is 'successful' if he can have access to the most exclusive
resources. To be successful, you have to be thinking positively, aka. learn to
ignore the injustice and destruction that's happening in the world.

I know this is very unpopular, I usually get downvoted fast for talking about
this, but it's the truth.

Our strive for 'success' creates major suffering around the world and we've
pretty much fucked up the planet in the process.

So what should we do about it ? There's very little that can be done, really,
it's the consequence of what we call 'human nature'. The only path is a
radical change in our philosophy of life, in which we think as 'we' instead of
'I', some variation of the Open Source philosophy for every aspect of the
economy, but I don't see that happening any time soon. And time is a resource
that this planet doesn't have too much of.

~~~
happyscrappy
If all Westerners were exterminated these farmers lives would likely be worse.
Leftist claptrap is great for self loathing. I am sorry your parents tried to
make a better life for you and made you complicit in the oppression.

~~~
codeshaman
> If all Westerners were exterminated these farmers lives would likely be
> worse.

Good theory. The fact is that their lives are like they are right now and it's
as bad as it can be. With supreme arrogance we think that by 'offering' those
people slave jobs, we're somehow saving them from certain death. Has it
occurred to you that these people could harvest all that food for themselves ?
They have to work in those farms only because corporations own all the land
and they have no other choice ?

> I am sorry your parents tried to make a better life for you and made you
> complicit in the oppression.

They tried, doesn't mean they succeeded. Yes, we have more possibilities to
'enjoy life' than ever, but we've destroyed the planet in the process. And
this will have dire consequences on everyone. Especially on our children and
grandchildren.

Global war and famine is not far away and people feel that.

And that's neither leftist or rightist, just survival instinct.

~~~
happyscrappy
>Global war and famine is not far away

Bullshit. Human suffering has never been less than it is now. This is the best
time to be alive and more so in the future. We will walk on Mars, cure
diseases and you will be miserable for no good reason. Why do people wish for
doom facts be damned?

~~~
codeshaman
> Human suffering has never been less than it is now. This is the best time to
> be alive and more so in the future.

Hold your horses, my friend. 80% of the world's population lives on less than
$10/day. Of those, 3 billion live on less that $2.5 per day. Go tell them
that.

In the last 50 years or so virtually all the planet's ecosystems have been
disrupted, polluted or destroyed entirely. Most depletion graphs look like
hockey sticks, that is geometric progression with very short doubling times
and still accelerating.

Storms, hurricanes, flooding and droughts have become daily news, not 'freak'
events like they used to be. I won't even touch on the global financial system
and what a hack that is.

Being in denial is convenient, but it doesn't stop the processes set in
motion.

And if we're talking about 'never ever', then it's worth mentioning that
humanity has never ever had as many weapons, including nuclear, as it has now.
Not even 1% of the destructive power that awaits to be unleashed. And humanity
has never ever stopped waging war.

I'm happy that 'we' will walk on Mars, but that doesn't solve any of our
current issues. Maybe the offsprings of the very few who will travel to the
distant, cold desert which is Mars will be able to turn it into a paradise,
similar to... Earth, who knows.

However, the way things are going, it seems we will turn Earth into Mars much
sooner than vice-versa.

As a parent, I really hope I'm wrong and you're right, because I want my
children to live a happy life and not have to deal with the consequences of
our ignorant and wasteful lifestyle.

------
maradori
> "They want us to take such great care of the tomatoes, but they don't take
> care of us,"

Wow, I am appalled at how the workers are treated. Quite an eyeopening article
:O

~~~
judk
You really have to be willfully ignorant to not notice that it mathematically
impossible to deliver food at the prices we pay while paying a decent wage.

~~~
kaybe
The fruit I and friends picked and packed during a gap year in New Zealand for
minimum wage (at that time around 6€) are sold here in Europe for 2€/kg. (And
the place basically gave us a free place to live and free access to the fields
for food.) It might not have been the most amazing job ever, but it was ok
enough.

For a small and non-poor economy like New Zealand and Australia I find it a
good compromise to take the adventure-minded youths of rich countries and have
them work a few months of their lives, since there is no shortage of those and
less people do the job all their lives or try to raise a family on it.

It's also interesting to see there was labour travel of poorer countries such
as Chile and China. A few people came over, basically to have an opportunity
to see the world (most surplus of earning was eaten by higher costs and
travel), and they didn't even know English. I still admire them.

TL;DR: If you buy New Zealand fruit - most has been picked by some priviledged
kid from a rich country (for fun and acceptable pay).

~~~
pcrh
To support your point, the Netherlands is the world's second largest exporter
of agricultural produce [1], and, to draw a direct parallel with the article
under discussion, the worlds largest exporter of tomatoes [2].

There is no way that agricultural workers in the Netherlands are treated as
badly as those described in the OP.

[1] [http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-
page/news/dutc...](http://www.iamexpat.nl/read-and-discuss/expat-
page/news/dutch-agricultural-sector-worlds-second-largest)

[2]
[http://www.hollandtrade.com/media/news/?bstnum=5351](http://www.hollandtrade.com/media/news/?bstnum=5351)

------
judk
This is where the US should be sending drones out to liberate the populace.
Really gives the lie to "Western values" and America as "leader of the free
world". This is American Empire.

~~~
elpachuco
Given the track record the USA has with liberating people (Afghanistan, Iraq,
Libia) I'd say thanks but no thanks.

From my point of view it doesn't really look that the USA is trying to
liberate anybody. Just an empire looking out for its interests and
masquerading it as something benevolent to fool its own population while at
the same time totally screwing the people it is trying to liberate and leaving
them worse off.

~~~
frandroid
I think you kind of missed the sarcasm.

------
stuaxo
Basically the same treatment as cotten pickers got back in the day.

