
Ask HN: What should I do to prepare for a meeting about my annual raise? - JakeWesorick
I&#x27;ve been at my current job for one year. My work-iversary is coming up and we&#x27;re meeting to talk about giving me a raise. How can I come up with what is a fair raise?
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throwaway5752
It has probably already been decided. You can articulate what you think is a
fair raise for next cycle.

You're getting some silly advice here that will make you seem a bit cocky at
best, delusional at worst (do not produce a promotional packet for yourself).
This is what happens: the company defines a budget, the budget is allocated
across teams based on risks/prior success. The budget defines the pool of
salary adjustments and that is the anchor. You can influence your share of
that pool in this conversation, at best.

If you want to get your manager to the right frame of mind, have this
structure of conversation: first, if you are dissatisfied with your salary,
say it. This is not a bluff, you have to be dissatisfied and have options
elsewhere. Know what the pay at those options are, and be prepared to get bad
news (either they don't think you are worth that, or cannot match it). If you
are looking for incremental adjustments, know that COLAs are usually 2-3%,
promotions are usually 5-10%, and merit is somewhere in the middle. Think
about what you've done in the past year that has a lot of business value (if
you did analytics that saved money or increased sales, or did important work
on a product that won/retained customers). If you've shown professional
development (leading a project, mentoring new team members) or improved the
efficiency of an existing process (lower cloud costs, shorter duration)
mention it and try to get a read if your manager remembers them and/or agrees.
Since this is a form of negotiation be prepared to talk about how you want to
build on last year's achievements/progress next year, and ask what you can
work on that would help you achieve your salary/growth goals and help the team
(what return your manager can expect from the increased investment in you).

~~~
cm2012
The ridiculously low yearly raises, regardless of performance, are why I
became a freelancer.

------
kadabra9
1\. Data points. Data points. Data points. Go through and document, line by
line, what you have done this year. Translate each line item into approximate
value created for the company, whether in dollars or resources freed up.
Chances are your manager will need to get any bump or promotion cleared with
the powers above him, so make it easy by providing as much data as possible.

2\. Make a sort of mental script that goes over the data points from item 1
and why all those make you worth what you are seeking. Practice it. Not only
will it help you articulate your ideas more clearly, it will also help calm
you down a bit. Salary discussions and negotiations can be intimidating.

3\. Have a vision for what you can continue to add to the company, after you
have received the raise/promotion you are seeking. Is there a specific project
you can lead, team members you can mentor, etc. Demonstrate that you have a
vision for yourself in the future at the company, to go with (hopefully) a
strong list of achievements that have already added value.

~~~
maerF0x0
> Translate each line item into approximate value created for the company,

How you do value things in the following cases 1) are opinion (eg Fixed a bug,
or 300) or 2) things that have no direct value (wrote a microservice that
supports a microservice that alerts users if a microservice is neither micro
or servicing) or 3) You delivered exactly what was asked of you, FeatureX say,
but FeatureX was poorly researched/designed and received no traction?

Nonetheless I will try to do as you've suggested, I see a lot of value in
being able to deliver what you're pointing at.

~~~
misterbwong
Try to value the results of your work, not the work itself.

1\. If you fixed a bug, what problem did it solve? Was it costing the company
money or time? Your customers? Be a _partner_ to the business, not a code-
monkey.

2\. Fixing a line of code has no value (gasp!) in a vacuum. What happens if
that microservice uptime alert _doesn 't_ go out? How did your work prevent
THAT from happening?

3\. You delivered _exactly_ what you asked for. Full stop. You executed (well,
presumably) and worked with the business to build to address an opportunity.
Not all opportunities pan out but all opportunities go to waste if not acted
upon.

------
toolz
Why would you want to be paid fairly? Aim to get paid what you want - not what
some group of people decide is "fair". If you don't get what you want, that's
not the end of the world, just gives you goals to strive for.

~~~
vbtemp
This is good advice.

Also, never let people who pay you tell you what is fair. You only talk about
what you think you're worth, and what they are willing to pay -- if there's
overlap then great, otherwise no cigar.

And final point to OP of thread

> How can I come up with what is a fair raise?

You search inside your soul and find a number that below which you'll feel bad
(resentful/undervalued/cheated/etc) and above which you'll feel good (well-
compensated/proud/valued/etc). That is the number you aim for

~~~
sporkland
This sounds like good advice, but lost its luster once I thought about it for
a bit. Given that it's a market, people's worth is constantly changing,
sometimes dramatically so, and you should largely try to get as much as you
can.

But yeah you should also consider both party's BATNA when deciding how hard to
push.

~~~
vbtemp
It's a market, but I don't think we're at a point yet where we're a commodity
that is line replacable. There's no fair running daily auction on standard-
issue developer/tech talent. Everyone has backgrounds and specialties that are
so unique you can't really make apples-to-apples comparison.

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teeray
For your next annual raise, I suggest the following: start a work journal and
make entries in it daily. Log the things you've done, the things you're
waiting for (blocked on), the meetings you've had and how long they took. Use
this as a guide to read from during your standups, if you have them.

At the end of the week, look through the previous week's entries and conduct a
review [1]. Create a separate entry in a weekly log detailing the
accomplishments, things to improve, things that went well, etc.

You can keep rolling these up if you prefer (monthly, quarterly, etc.), but
I've found ~50 weekly logs pretty skimmable in the time leading up to a
review. Keep in mind that the more rollups you do, the more work it will be,
and the more likely you will be to stop logging altogether.

While you may be able to capture some big accomplishments with an end-of-year
brain dump, your weekly logs will expose the more subtle things: conflicts
encountered, how you moved obstacles out of your way, the people you worked
closely with, etc. Addressing these things in your review alongside your
"hard" accomplishments will make for a stronger argument in your manager's
eyes.

[1] Cal Newport, in "Deep Work" ([http://calnewport.com/books/deep-
work/](http://calnewport.com/books/deep-work/)), has a good section on doing a
weekly review as a means to increase the amount of deep work in your working
day.

------
thinkingkong
You should understand in advance the way the company does raises. Typically
youll have a (usually guaranteed) COLA which is small. From there salary is
tied to peformance and responsibilities. Your manager should have already
shared this with you and ideally youve been working towards making progress.

If none of those things are in place then like other posts suggest, perhaps
get a backstop and negotiate with other companies. Just remember the
difference in salary might not make up for all other benefits. Just be honest
with yourself about what you want / need.

------
ianamartin
Don't make it personal. This is a business transaction. So don't think or talk
about it in terms of what you want or what you think you need or what you
think is fair. That's going to lose the negotiation.

Find jobs that are similar to what you actually do (not necessarily the same
title or description) and get salary information about them. Pick a number
that's in the range of what you can find and go with that.

The conversation from there is simple: this is what I'm actually doing, and
this is what the market pays for it. That number will either be in your boss's
budget or it won't. If it is, the conversation shouldn't be difficult for
either one of you. If it isn't, you can negotiate for things that might be
available but not counted towards budget. Extra paid vacation, ability to
expense some things, etc.

If it's just not in the budget, though, you've accomplished a couple of things
by keeping it a business transaction. 1. You've put your boss on notice that
you know what the market value is for your skills and you've done it without
having to play any mind games or go get some other offer to try and negotiate
that. And 2. You've just done some of your boss's job for him/her. You've just
given data they can use at the next budget meeting so say, "Yeah, this
position is getting x amount from everywhere else. We need to match." 3\.
You've proven that you have an adult understanding of how these things work,
which will be very much appreciated.

If you let the conversation go personal based on what you feel like you want
or need, this is a risky move, whether it's an initial salary negotiation or
an incremental. If you say you need this or were hoping for that and the
company can't match, you're a flight risk. You have very probably just priced
yourself out of a job.

Keep it business, appeal to market data, and play your personal feeling close
to your vest and you can negotiate for as much as you want without painting
yourself into a corner.

------
f_allwein
Check out this site - good starting point:
[https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/book/](https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/book/)

~~~
JoshDoody
Specifically, check out Chapters 1 & 2 (they're pretty short) to get a sense
of how companies decide what to pay you and then jump to Chapter 7 for
specific steps to take as you prep for your meeting.

(Thanks for the pointer @f_allwein, I appreciate it!)

------
dangerboysteve
Working hard, being punctual, never calling in sick, being respectful are all
things a company is already paying you for. I know shocking. These are not
qualities for raises, they are expected of you. What matters is your impact to
the company and helping them make money. Build your talking points around the
value you add to the company and it reaching its goal (make money). Also keep
in mind, salary is only one point in compensation. Things like more vacation
time, better benefits, pension/401K contributions, stock options, educational
funds, having them pay for an annual conference(s) you want to attend. But
much of this depends on the company you are working for.

~~~
eindiran
I agree with all the other points in your first sentence, but your company
should not expect you to never call in sick. You get sick days for a reason.

~~~
lojack
The only thing worse than an employee calling in sick is an employee not
calling in sick when they are sick. Nothing good is going to come of doing a
half assed job and infecting the rest of the office.

~~~
dangerboysteve
I'm not advocating no sicks days. They are a good thing and the last thing I
want is a sick person coming into the office and infecting others. The point I
was making is that "ideally" this is what is expected.

------
staunch
_" I really like working here. I really want to keep working here. And I think
I've proven that I'm a very valuable member of the team. But to continue being
happy working here I need to receive a raise of $n. Otherwise I'm going to
feel like I'm not being fair to the financial future of myself and/or my
family."_

Being direct and firm is really the only way. The threat of quitting is
probably better implied than made directly. It feels less like a harsh
ultimatum which might trigger a defensive response. You want them to
understand that you're not upset at anyone, you're just doing what's best for
yourself and/or your family.

But it's important to realize that it's usually hard to get a significant
raise without changing jobs. Most companies have a very hard time doing this
even when it's entirely warranted.

------
Spooky23
All of these answers are right and wrong. It depends on the company and how
things are structured. I manage about 90 people in an environment where the
main lever for compensation upgrade is promotion. About 5-10% can get promoted
in a given year. IMO, 30% deserve more. You may be a superstar, but go
unrecognized (in dollar form) because I have a position in a different title
series or tied to a project.

You need to have a clue about how decisions are made and where discretion
lies. In some places, you’ll be assigned numerical ratings and HR pukes out a
number. In other cases, a manager/director has discretion, in others you get a
2% raise for breathing for another year.

In all scenarios, you need to be able to confidently talk about the value you
bring today and tomorrow. The hardest part is knowing who to tell the story
too.

------
flabbergast
Find another job first so you can ask for a reasonable pay rise and play it
hard if needed.

------
lnanek2
Well, you can put together a promo packet. Collect all your best design docs,
pull requests, list out the feature you shipped, the people you mentored, the
opportunities you won the company, the money you saved the company, feedback
from your peers and managers, etc..

Although I agree with jaequery, if you really want a raise the sure fire way
is to get another job offer and have your current company match or take the
other offer. The biggest raise I've gotten at a company without that is $10k,
but changing jobs can gain you much more.

------
TamDenholm
Ideally, go and interview at other companies, get an idea of the market, you
may even unintentionally find something you're interested in.

------
rootusrootus
Ask for more responsibility. Put your manager on the spot and get them to tell
you how you can take the next step in your career. But you need to be ready to
actually do it. Just asking for more than a cost-of-living bump for no
particular reason is not likely to get you much unless you are underpaid
significantly (from HR's perspective) for the position you are in.

------
vbtemp
1\. Have you defined your value statement? What qualities you bring to the
table, and what you have developed over the previous year that make you more
impactful and invaluable at your current company. That is your starting point
for discussing a raise.

2\. Determine what would make you feel good (i.e., a what salary increase
would make you feel short changed and resentful, and what would make you feel
good and valued and fairly compensated). Take that number and use that as your
baseline.

If what comes in is under that threshold (at which you feel fairly
compensated), you can discuss the raise again with the manager and how you
feel it doesn't reflect your increased value. If this does not bring your
salary to the lower end of your fair-compensation threshold, it's time to look
for a new job. Otherwise, unless you're able to not let it bother you too much
(I can't do this), resentment builds and it's best to look for an exit.

~~~
davidw
> Have you defined your value statement?

I suppose this is good advice, but boy oh boy does it make me want to live in
a cabin in the woods as far away from the corporate world as possible.

~~~
berbec
Explaining how your skill-set matchs with the paradigm currently in place to
advance the corporate mission statement should net you a couple thousand while
making a little piece of your soul die.

~~~
vbtemp
Not really. If you have a life and meaningful relationships and purpose, this
is but a little hack to increase your long term earnings to make that life a
bit more comfortable.

------
encoderer
Usually an engineer in large company doesn’t need to prove their work had
business impact, only that they did what was asked and did it well. But if you
can identify the work that you’ve done that did have positive business impact,
talk only about that.

------
chrisbennet
I don’t ever recall asking for a raise except once where there was an
agreement to raise me to market in 6 months if things worked out (or I would
go).

You can bust your hump for a 3% bump or just go work for someone who does
value you and get some multiple of that. I called it “giving myself a raise”.

As the sales guys like to say: “Your W2 is your review.”

I suppose if you wanted to be proactive, let your manger know that no raise or
a very small one is sending the message that you have no future with the
company. It’s not a threat, it’s just business.

------
duxup
How is your relationship / communication with your boss (assuming he has some
input on the decision)?

Lots of good posts here but I find a good relationship with your boss and co-
workers can be big factors.

------
sloaken
Nothing gets you a good raise like having an offer for another job.

------
southphillyman
The problem with asking for a raise is it usually needs to be approved by a
separate HR/payroll department. I can't even really think of a time where
someone that I know got a sizable raise without either taking on more
responsibility (ie: promotion) or using an offer as leverage. The sad reality
is most companies would rather waste thousands of dollars recruiting, hiring,
and training new employees instead of giving that money to the employee they
are replacing.

------
jaequery
its really not rocket science.

before asking for a raise, always apply to other jobs and have something to
leverage off of by looking around and applying to other companies. name your
price higher than what you are getting now.

if they accept your offer, you can now go back to your company and name a
price in a take it or leave it situation.

if they accept, great. if not, atleast you now have other alternatives to fall
back on.

~~~
rootusrootus
I recommend against getting job offers as a method of forcing your current
employer to pay you more. If it works, then you just became a liability and at
the next convenient opportunity you will be first out the door.

Go find a new job when you're ready to leave, then leave.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
This is bad advice that gets repeated a lot. Employers will work to retain
good people and they know that good people understand how a labor market
works.

Managers aren’t going through the hassle of making a case to raise/promote you
only to dump you later. That would make them look pretty bad to their
managers.

~~~
rootusrootus
Managers talk to each other. Your manager talks to his boss and says "really
can't afford to lose this guy right now, so we need to give him enough to keep
him." So he's making a case alright, but everyone in the chain knows _why_

Problem is, now they know you're thinking of leaving. Since most of the time
people do not leave over a few dollars, they assume, most likely correctly,
that something else is pushing you to leave and the money is just delaying the
inevitable.

When you do that to your manager, it demonstrates to him that he has a
business risk which needs mitigating. So he keeps you for now while he tries
to get someone else in a position to take over for you should you go through
with your original plan to leave.

I've spent decades in the corporate world and I can't recall a single time
that a forced raise like this ended up with either side happy, and nearly 100%
of the time one year later the employee is gone for one reason or another.

~~~
jaequery
I don't know how you come to that conclusion.

How would the manager or anyone else know that he is leaving?

He is just simply asking for a "raise". He is not going around telling
everyone, hey "i am leaving, give me a raise or i am gone". Now that would be
plain silly, lol.

As I said, you look around to leverage yourself so that you know how much you
are worth in the market. Lot of devs out there, working at companies for over
5+ years tend to underestimate how much they are worth, and they become a
bargain for the company. They are simply too shy to ask for just how much they
are worth and companies usually don't give raises to employees (besides the
annual small pct increase) unless asked upon.

~~~
rootusrootus
> He is not going around telling everyone, hey "i am leaving, give me a raise
> or i am gone". Now that would be plain silly, lol.

I think you are misreading what we are talking about on this tangent. Forcing
a raise by threatening to leave for a more lucrative job is exactly what we
are talking about, and I suggested that it is not a great strategy.

------
arikr
Read a few books on salary negotiation.

Try Negotiating Your Salary by Jack Chapman.

Fakespot says that Fearless Salary Negotiation by Doody is loaded with fake
amazon reviews, so I might give that one a miss.

And, read "Never Split the Difference" by Voss.

~~~
JoshDoody
I had never seen Fakespot - that's... interesting. I appreciate you mentioning
it. I need to see why it thinks those Amazon reviews are fake.

The good news is you don't have to buy it on Amazon to read it - there's a
link to the online version of Fearless Salary Negotiation in another comment
on this post - so you can read it for free and see what you think :)

\---

Another response to your comment says that salary negotiation is different
than asking for a raise - I totally agree. I treat them as separate things
that require unique processes.

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B1narySunset
Just straight up tell them you want more money and if they say no then leave.

------
codeonfire
Nothing. You have no bargaining power since you already work there and depend
on your job for your livelihood. If you want more than your 0-2.5% raise then
just go find another job.

~~~
chrisbennet
This is 100% effective advice. You may not _like_ it or want to leave a job
you like, but is the only _sure fire_ way to get paid your worth. Business
“systems”[1] are desighed to keep you from getting paid market. These systems
are so rigid that they would actually rather hire some else to replace you at
great expense, than make an exception for the individual. The way to “hack”
the system is to get a new job - the new place has no choice but to pay market
rate if they want to hire you.

[1] examples

“Sorry, 5% is the max raise per year.”

“I’m sorry, you should feel good getting 6%, most everyone got less but we
really value you.”

“Make the project successful and you’ll be rewarded.” (Hint, _somebody_ will
be rewarded for the late nights and weekends, but it won’t be you.)

------
dustingetz
Awkwardness is okay

