
Google shuts YouTube channel implicated in Kremlin political propaganda ops - doppp
https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/11/google-shuts-youtube-channel-implicated-in-kremlin-political-propaganda-ops/
======
readhn
"..although the videos did not gain significant traction .. only garnered
“hundreds” of views prior to the channel being closed (vs the pair’s Facebook
page having ~48,000 fans before it was closed, and videos uploaded there
racking up “thousands” of views)."

really hundreds of likes and thousands of views are going to have any impact
on the election? Come on! Show us the money, i want to see proof of some real
money (millions of dollars channeled in) before i buy this whole "Russia
backed" story. Not some pocket change lunch money and a couple of guys (are
they even real?).

They are basically saying i can sell an average home and use that money to
influence the results of the American elections. Complete BS.

~~~
lbenes
> thousands of views are going to have any impact on the election?

We're not talking about Prime Time TV grabs, this is microtargeting, death by
a thousand cuts. This one just one of dozens of campaigns that we are just now
learning about. Here are some more examples:

* Russian-funded Facebook ads backed Stein, Sanders[1]

* Shuttered Facebook group that organized anti-Clinton, anti-immigrant rallies across Texas was linked to Russia[2]

* Russians Impersonated Real American Muslims to Stir Chaos on Facebook and Instagram[3]

Just over a month ago FB was denying any Russian influence. And now we know of
4 different demographics, with 4 different campaigns. These "thousands of
views" that you pooh-pooh start to add up and you can see how the cumulative
influence could have a real effect.

[1] [http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-
tru...](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-
sanders-stein-243172)

[2] [http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-group-russia-
texas-a...](http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-group-russia-texas-anti-
immigrant-rallies-2017-9)

[3] [https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-russians-
impersonate...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-russians-impersonated-
real-american-muslims-to-stir-chaos-on-facebook-and-instagram)

~~~
marindez
>this is microtargeting, death by a thousand cuts

Nah this isn't. This is a failed propaganda campaign.

------
sschueller
Will Google shut down all the USA [1] propaganda channels as well?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America)

~~~
misleading
That's the American equivalent to RT, neither of which is in dispute. The
channel mentioned in TFA features black actors pretending to be american aimed
at discrediting political opponents of Russia and inciting racial conflict to
sow instability among Americans. That's not censorship of an alternative
viewpoint: this is unambiguously hateful propaganda.

~~~
cremno
>discrediting political opponents [...] and inciting racial conflict to sow
instability among Americans

Your mass media/ruling class does that too (especially on the political
right). And they have much more influence than some largely unknown YT channel
allegedly backed by Russia.

~~~
aluhut
> And they have much more influence than some largely unknown YT channel
> allegedly backed by Russia.

How about RT? They play in the same conspiracy league though RT reaches far
more people since they air the same agenda in different western countries and
languages.

------
coldtea
Which shows why China (corrupt/autocratic ruling elite or not) feels a need to
control its own internet/web -- and would still would be justified to feel
that need even if it was a perfect democracy.

Because when country X runs the most/biggest internet properties, then X
country's propaganda ops can run uninterrupted on all of its-owned/run web
players and services spanning the globe, but other countries' political
propaganda can be stopped at any time.

Now, if you're in the side which owns the most/biggest internet properties,
then you'll probably feel there's no problem with this imbalance -- nor would
you find any reason to control your own internet.

That's because, since all the big players are yours, the global internet is
"your own internet" anyway. Plus it's not like your citizens are ever going to
venture that far of your national services for alternative news sources. Heck,
it's not even like your domestic alternative news sources are much popular,
the vast majority is fed 2 partisan shades of the same BS.

And because facts are facts, it gets worse when one side get to unilaterally
control and mark as "political propaganda ops" not just actual political
propaganda ops, but facts too for everybody concerned.

Especially since, whether you're in country X or another, if you never venture
outside of mainstream media (of whatever political persuasion), you'll also
tend to find your country's propaganda ops as just neutral reporting. After
all, that's what your own media tells you 24/7, what your "neutral" official
history books say, etc.

------
hasenj
So, Russia influenced the election by having two black men run a YouTube
channel?

~~~
redblacktree
Among other things, yes.

~~~
neuronexmachina
Yup. This was just one channel among many, following the Russian "Firehose of
Falsehood" approach to propaganda. It used the same DDoS-like approach during
it's incursion into Georgia and annexation of Crimea.

[https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html](https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html)

> The Russian propaganda model is high-volume and multichannel, and it
> disseminates messages without regard for the truth. It is also rapid,
> continuous, and repetitive, and it lacks commitment to consistency. Although
> these techniques would seem to run counter to the received wisdom for
> successful information campaigns, research in psychology supports many of
> the most successful aspects of the model. Furthermore, the very factors that
> make the firehose of falsehood effective also make it difficult to counter.

~~~
hasenj
If the US was doing the same thing on a global scale, how would we know? We'd
probably be entirely under its influence. We would see certain falsehoods as
self-evident facts, because every source we try to read or research, more or
less confirms the propaganda.

~~~
neuronexmachina
The distinguishing feature is that the claims are provably false, but the
sheer quantity and repetition of claims overwhelms the ability to debunk them.
The current US administration actually has quite a few examples of this, but
it's arguable whether it's due to incompetence or malice.
[http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-
trump/stateme...](http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-
trump/statements/byruling/pants-fire/)

~~~
hasenj
How about the whole "Russia made Trump win the election" narrative itself?
Sounds like propaganda to me.

~~~
neuronexmachina
Did you even read the OP's original link about the channel which was shut
down? I highly recommend educating yourself on the issue.

~~~
hasenj
The channel run by two black guys? Because that totally validates the
propaganda? Did you read the top comment in this thread?

~~~
neuronexmachina
Wow.

------
alexc05
I saw this on Rachel Maddow this morning. [http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-
maddow/watch/us-tech-giants-oddl...](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-
maddow/watch/us-tech-giants-oddly-unhelpful-on-russia-1067167299819)

Near as she can tell, they live in Nigeria (though I don't think she's
actually been able to back that up).

She also digs into a number of the other accounts that did this. The "I love
Texas" twitter account was another one that seemed pretty egregious. For
example encouraging armed revolt if hillary wins. Switching their account-name
and branding to "Secede if Hilary Win" days before the election to make it
_LOOK_ like their followers were _ALWAYS_ in favor of extreme political
action.

This stuff is pretty dark.

------
zeep
If they would shutdown all news channels that sometime distribute
"propaganda", there would not be many left...

~~~
aluhut
Sure, but only if your definition of "propaganda" is completely useless.

~~~
hasenj
So you think that there are a _lot_ of honest media channels that never ran
propaganda pieces, not even once!

~~~
aluhut
No, I just think you have no idea what propaganda is since you've probably
never witnessed it. Otherwise you would be careful with those superlatives you
throw around here.

~~~
hasenj
I know exactly what it looks like, as I've lived under two different third
world dictatorships for several years.

It looks like this: everyone repeating the exact same narrative, broadcast
everywhere, to the point where it's taken for granted, and anyone who dares
point out other possibilities is immediately ostracized and shamed.

------
creaghpatr
>The content appeared intended for an African-American audience, although the
videos did not gain significant traction on YouTube, according to The Daily
Beast, which said they had only garnered “hundreds” of views prior to the
channel being closed (vs the pair’s Facebook page having ~48,000 fans before
it was closed, and videos uploaded there racking up “thousands” of views).

Hundreds of views? For the whole channel, huh? Not sure what their
distribution targets were but they sure failed to meet them.

And they (presumably) shared these videos on their 48k fan facebook page, yet
the videos only managed to get "thousands" of views? Hope they didn't have
that Kremlin ad spend behind them because those numbers are pitiful.

>And their content was pulled from Facebook back in August after being
identified as Russian-backed propaganda, according to the Daily Beast’s
sources.

I think it would be helpful for community moderators everywhere, including
Hacker News, to understand how they were identified as Russian-backed
propaganda.

~~~
aluhut
> And they (presumably) shared these videos on their 48k fan facebook page,
> yet the videos only managed to get "thousands" of views? Hope they didn't
> have that Kremlin ad spend behind them because those numbers are pitiful.

Wasn't the main aim for the facbook network to host Ads? I've read somewhere
that they reached millions with that.

> I think it would be helpful for community moderators everywhere, including
> Hacker News, to understand how they were identified as Russian-backed
> propaganda.

The most obvious would be the content. You can just turn on the still existing
propaganda channels like Russia Today to compare the content.

~~~
coldtea
> _The most obvious would be the content. You can just turn on the still
> existing propaganda channels like Russia Today to compare the content._

So, like, anything not agreeing with the mainstream US opinion on things?

~~~
kbart
_" So, like, anything not agreeing with the mainstream US opinion on things?"_

I live in a country (Lithuania) RT constantly pours BS on, so no, I can assure
you it isn't just alternative news -- it is a pure propaganda machine. The
latest major story was that German NATO soldiers (stationed in Lithuania as a
part to deter Russia from trying something like in Ukraine) raped a local
teenage girl[0]. Of course, neither a "victim", nor a single witness was found
by police and more reputable journalists.

0\. [http://www.dw.com/en/why-the-fake-rape-story-against-
german-...](http://www.dw.com/en/why-the-fake-rape-story-against-german-nato-
forces-fell-flat-in-lithuania/a-37694870)

~~~
coldtea
> _The latest major story was that German NATO soldiers (stationed in
> Lithuania as a part to deter Russia from trying something like in Ukraine)
> raped a local teenage girl_

That might been a BS report, but it's not like that never happens and is never
covered up. Soldiers out of duty, especially drunk, do all kinds of similar
shit (assaults, rape, drunken fights, etc) around such bases. We had a few
around our here parts -- but here are some more from more reputable sources if
you prefer:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Okinawa_rape_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Okinawa_rape_incident)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings)
[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-
forgotten...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-forgotten-
story-of-rape-and-murder-in-kosovo-american-style-622977.html)
[http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82993](http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82993)
[http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/18/soldiers.court/](http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/18/soldiers.court/)

Many, of course, such incidents never see the light of day. I don't know
whether this one is one such (and it's suppression is touted as it being false
to begin with) or the other side, eager to publish some anti-NATO stuff didn't
fact-check or even fabricated it. So, I'll give you that. But as "fake news"
goes, this is quite on the mark of what often goes on -- not some Pizzagate
level BS.

Speaking of fake news, it's not like the other side would never stoop so low
either:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony)

(among tons of other such BS)

Also "as a part to deter Russia from trying something like in Ukraine" \-- so,
to deter them from intervening when the elected government is coup-ed by a
ragtag coalition (including bona fide neo-nazis) with support from outside
(who wanted to pressure Russia)? In a country which is in their borders and
has parts with majority Russian ethnicity that felt threatened?

How good of this good-will organization to protect Lithuania. It's not a full
threatening army machine itself, promoting any particular national interests
in the region at all, nor is it used for pushing increasingly towards Russia's
borders and keeping the pressure of them, decades after the cold war ended.
And it's never known to invade sovereign countries which have nothing to do
with it, itself, for BS or no pretexts and making hell-holes of civil war and
"reconstruction" out of them.

Lithuania's story with USSR and/or current relations with Russia have never
been that great, to put it mildly, and Lithuania had suffered a lot under
Stalinism etc. It's also good to be paranoid about a powerful neighbor. But I
think it finds solace in false friends, who, if the need arose, they wouldn't
think twice to sacrifice it themselves. Well, not that differently from false
friends in WWII...

~~~
kbart
I'm not going into Internet political discussion, because it never leads to
anything constructive, so I'll just ignore a good portion of your comment. My
described incident was different because it was pushed heavily by Russian
press and letter was sent to the member(s) of Lithuania parliament trying to
cause a stir, so it wasn't just some random BS, it clearly had political
motivation to deteriorate relations between locals and NATO soldiers. Also, it
was heavily investigated both by police and by media, so if it had had any
factual base, I'm sure something would have been found (and here are also some
people, who would _love_ if it was true, so there was plenty of motivation,
not just formalities). A town this rape supposedly has taken place is very
small, population of ~30k, so I'm sure somebody (relatives, neighbors, random
people etc.) would have noticed at least _something_.

------
bestest
Will they shut down the Russian YouTube offices, which are overrun by the same
Kremlin propagandists, wrecking havoc on Russian Youtube (shutting down
opposition videos etc)?

~~~
kushti
What are you talking about? Do you have credible links?

~~~
bestest
Of course I have no proof, but there are links, and this is one of them:
[http://www.bbc.com/russian/news-40674508](http://www.bbc.com/russian/news-40674508),
which you can use as a point of reference.

The Russian net is talking about it (on youtube, on twitter, on VK etc), but
no one has proof — if there was proof, it would be scandalous. Thus it's just
common knowledge.

------
Overtonwindow
So Google is censoring again. It's not extremist. It's not violent. Why does
it need censorship? What will they label and censor as "propaganda" next?

------
golemotron
Many companies play up the pretense that they are 'global' corporations. There
are only nations. Google is a US corporation.

A global corporation would not pay this much attention to the influence of a
single nation or it would pay more attention to all of them.

------
enord
This is only suprising (or outrageous) under the assumption that we live in a
global civil rights society. Only commerce is more or less global because it
directly serves the interests of states around the world.

Is normal.

------
bolololo12
when will they shut down Russia Today?

~~~
saalweachter
I would note there is a bit of a difference between something called "Russia
Today" (or Voice of America) and something purporting to be grassroots
activism. If you want to trust clearly labeled foreign news, whether it's
Russia Today or Voice of America or the BBC, you're at least making a semi-
informed decision.

------
mushinron4
"Hey, Alexei, activate account number two"!

~~~
bolololo12
"Hey Sasha, niet problema I'll ask Kaspersky Lab to help us with this one"

