
IBAHRI condemned UK treatment of Julian Assange in US extradition trial - k1m
https://www.ibanet.org/Article/NewDetail.aspx?ArticleUid=c05c57ee-1fee-47dc-99f9-26824208a750
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jstanley
Interestingly, this is from March, which means it's not even a response to
what happened at this hearing(s?) this week.

[https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/your-man-
in-...](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/your-man-in-the-
public-gallery-the-assange-hearing-day-6/)

and

[https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/your-man-
in-...](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/your-man-in-the-
public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-7/)

~~~
k1m
Latest on the hearing appears to be this (posted yesterday):

> Julian Assange's extradition hearing at the Old Bailey today will not be
> going ahead because the husband of one of the US lawyers has come down with
> Covid-like symptoms.

> Once he gets the result of a test the judge will determine how best to
> proceed.

[https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/1303981123383500801](https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/1303981123383500801)

------
tenbino
People don’t care because he’s “a bad guy”.

That’s where we’ve got to.

Trouble is people aren’t brought up with an understanding of how things should
be in a fair and just society. They’re brought up with some mucky mixed up
perception that the world is some mashup of Hollywood and what the media says.

There’s no moral compass for society any more.

My personal take is he’s some sort of weird Russian asset and he’s a net
negative for our way of life but I still think he deserves the full protection
of the law at every single stage. He shouldn’t be sold out and abandoned by
society.

It sounds twee but my mother brought me up to care about other people, the
less well off and to care about what’s right and justice for all. I think
“we’ll theres an awful lot of people in this world who didn’t have my mother.
What did they learn?”

~~~
shadowprofile77
>there's no moral compass for society anymore

What? And there was more of such a compass a century ago when lynchings were
much more common for "racial defilements"? Or two centuries ago when slaves
were considered bad by the general public for escaping from the brutality of
ownership? Or perhaps 600 years ago when witch burning was remarkably common
in much of Europe?

Not criticizing your defense of Assange (his treatment really is deplorable,
petty and cruel), but This phrase has never been anything less than absurd,
and particularly so is to claim it of today's society in comparison to some
mythical past morality..

~~~
tenbino
The fact that society isn’t perfect doesn’t dispel my point.

It’s easy to dispel any argument by hand waving and saying “but look at all
these other problems therefore you’re wrong!”

I stand by the assertion that 60/70 years ago western society had a more
unified sense of what is right and wrong.

No doubt there were some major missing elements of that but the point stands.

~~~
watwut
> I stand by the assertion that 60/70 years ago western society had a more
> unified sense of what is right and wrong.

That would be 1950-1960. Speaking of America, Montgomery bus boycott started
in 1955. Which took a year and started whole civil war movement. President
Nixon’s red-baiting campaigns were at exactly that time too.

In Europe, IRA started their border campaign in 1956.

And that is just me going from top of head.

~~~
dogma1138
Continental Europe during the post world period until the late 80’s had
terrorist bombings, political assassination, dictatorships and plenty of other
crap going around, I’m really not sure what level of understanding people have
of history these days.

70 years ago was just after Europe decided to murder millions of Jews, Roma,
Gays and a bunch of other groups.

~~~
watwut
> I’m really not sure what level of understanding people have of history these
> days.

People go by what they gathered from movies and what their older relatives
talk about.

~~~
dogma1138
Yeah I don’t know, Portugal was a dictatorship until the coup in 1974 which
ended the Estado Novo regime and the colonial wars Portugal was waging in
Africa, ffs you had European powers conducting outright massacres in Africa in
the 70’s still.

And somehow today its feels that everyone thinking that the European Union was
formed on Tuesday following the pyramids and its been the bastion of human
rights and civilization since.

------
theobeers
It sickens me how little it seems to matter to people in our mainstream
discourse whether or not Assange is treated as a human being. After he was
removed from the Ecuadorian embassy, and officials said he had behaved
erratically there and smeared feces on the walls, etc., the public reaction
was along the lines of, “Wow, what a weirdo loser”—rather than, “Oh God, what
have we done to this person?” It speaks poorly of our society.

~~~
implements
Thing is, he damaged himself by choosing to spend nearly a decade in
isolation. We haven’t done anything to him other than expect him to submit to
due process as a citizen like any other.

That he has driven himself half-mad is indeed tragic, but it’s not societies
fault, nor is it sufficient to place him outside the law.

~~~
tinus_hn
There is no way he would have gotten due process, which is why he went in in
the first place.

~~~
kgonza
Can you give an example of someone in his position who didn't receive due
process?

~~~
black_puppydog
Yes, Julian Assange for one. Look him up, you seem to be unfamiliar with his
case. /s

------
pseingatl
You cannot trust the US concerning extraditions. Just ask Austria:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholam_Weiss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sholam_Weiss)

~~~
Frost1x
Trust is something that in general, seems to be waning across the board, at
least here in the US.

At the same time, trust provides foundations for a stable society. I believe
that for people to interact regularly, they need to trust that the others
aren't always out to constantly undermine them in their daily interactions. It
could be that their representative government is representing some of their
ideas, that their legal system treats them as it says it will, that fellow
citizens won't throw them under a bus the second they see opportunity, etc.
All of that seems to be on the decline.

Instead our society seems to be filled with lies at every front. I hear lies
from top government officials, lies from our legal system, lies from
businesses, lies from everyone around me--pretty much all in pursuit of
personal gain.

The less I can trust my government, politicians, authorities in power, and
fellow citizens to be reasonable and work collectively, the less I tend to
trust our society overall.

------
johnnyfaehell
> According to his lawyers, Mr Assange was handcuffed 11 times; stripped naked
> twice and searched; his case files confiscated after the first day of the
> hearing; and had his request to sit with his lawyers during the trial,
> rather than in a dock surrounded by bulletproof glass, denied.

Stripped naked and search is standard custody practice. Criminals hide things
and are known to smuggle things in and out of court to prison. And remember,
he is techincally a criminal. He broke criminal law when he skipped bail. He
is being held in custody, it seems fair for standard policies to apply to him.
Why would he be any different?

It is standard for someone to sit in the dock, why would he deserve special
treatment. He is able to confer with his lawyers when he needs to from the
dock as many other people have done so in the past and will do so in the
future.

The only issue I have is them taking his case files, which seems petty. But I
suspect there would have been operational reasons, but why those reasons
couldn't have been worked around seems odd and again petty.

While I think he doesn't deserve to be sent to the US and should not be. The
fact, he is a criminal and is in custody because he can't be trusted does mean
he should be treated as such a manner.

~~~
arcticbull
Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's
being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of the
system than his specific treatment. People seem to have lost sight of the fact
that (a) people are innocent until proven guilty in general and (b) criminals
are people too, and all people deserve humane treatment. After all, if you
can't treat criminals humanely who are you to condemn them for treating others
inhumanely? By all means, remove from society, reform, re-educate, etc, but no
reason to treat criminals as anything other than your siblings, parents, etc
who did something wrong and need some course correction.

~~~
johnnyfaehell
> Seems like nobody should really be treated that way though, so the fact he's
> being treated in accordance with others to me is more of an indictment of
> the system than his specific treatment.

Why shouldn't people be stripped searched on the way in and out of prison? How
are the prisons meant to ensure the safety of the prisoners? Remember
prisoners can and do smuggle weapons and deadly drugs into prisons. One of the
best ways of keeping prisons safe is to search prisoners properly upon entry
to the prison.

Why shouldn't people who have been proven not trustworthy be held in a dock?
Remember, he skipped bail.

Why shouldn't someone who seems to be at danger be protected with bulletproof
glass?

> people are innocent until proven guilty in general

He has already been proven guilty of a crime. He is a criminal.

> criminals are people too, and all people deserve humane treatment. After
> all, if you can't treat criminals humanely who are you to condemn them for
> treating others inhumanely? By all means, remove from society, reform, re-
> educate, etc, but no reason to treat criminals as anything other than your
> siblings, parents, etc who did something wrong and need some course
> correction.

I personally have been in the UK prison system and have experienced the strip
searches and the court handling. Honestly, I never heard a prisoner once
complain about strip searches, we understood why they were there. The guards
weren't insenstive or treated us inhumanely. We were just told to take our
clothes off while they inspected our clothes. And sitting in a dock is not
inhumane.

~~~
arcticbull
> Why shouldn't people who have been proven not trustworthy be held in a dock?
> Remember, he skipped bail. Why shouldn't someone who seems to be at danger
> be protected with bulletproof glass?

Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the
bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of
bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out?

> He has already been proven guilty of a crime. He is a criminal.

Not this crime? Either way it applies to people who both have and have not
been convicted yes?

> Honestly, I never heard a prisoner once complain about strip searches, we
> understood why they were there.

Oh, well. In that case. I'm sure if they did complain their complains would be
given the utmost priority.

~~~
johnnyfaehell
> Sorry, do you expect him to run out of court and not be stopped by the
> bailiffs? Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of
> bulletproof glass after already being searched for weapons inside and out?

Well, the baliffs wouldn't be in position to catch him since they're in the
dock. Because that's where the prisoner is. And prisoners do bolt out of
courts, they get ane extra sentence but it does happen.

> Do you expect him to cause danger that requires the use of bulletproof glass
> after already being searched for weapons inside and out?

I said AT danger, not BE A danger. So the bulletproof glass is there to
protect HIM.

> Oh, well. In that case. I'm sure if they did complain their complains would
> be given the utmost priority.

You know people complain to each other, right? They bitch about this and that.
Like they would complain about the tea being crap, etc. And complaints were
treated fairly, that's why if you complained you got shit from the guards,
your mail would take 2 days longer, your requests for a form would take
longer, etc.

You seem to be completely disconnected from reality.

* This is a guy who skipped bail and avoided arrest for years. And you're againist him sitting in a dock.

* A guy who realistically, people want to kill and you're againist him being behind bulletproof glass.

* You want people to be dealt with humanely but againist basic things required to keep them safe. All the things you're againist, the only countries that don't have them are corrupt, dangerous places.

~~~
arcticbull
Thanks for sharing your perspective!

------
hau
What is the significance and implications of such condemnation?

~~~
docdeek
I don’t know them but a quick scan of courses suggests that they are a serious
INGO with a sizeable membership of lawyers and law societies worldwide.

That said, this is from March and recent condemnations/requests/urging on
their part seem to come regularly and with regards to issues of justice
globally. In the past ten days there are a couple of “IBA urges” and “IBA
calls for” announcments on their site.
[https://www.ibanet.org/Article/](https://www.ibanet.org/Article/)

------
mcherm
I can't think of a special reason why the UK would have it in for Julian
Assange. I presume they are doing this in order to cow towel to their ally the
United States. Do they not realize that the United States is likely to undergo
a regime change at the beginning of next year? Do they think the new regime in
the US will feel the same way about Julian Assange and will put the same kind
of pressure on the UK that the Trump administration presumably has? Do they
think that they can reverse course and just apologize for the failure of
justice if the US changes administrations?

Don't try telling me that the UK government is not a party here and that this
is simply a case of a zealous prosecutor and biased judge -- because I'm not
fool enough to believe that story.

~~~
delibes
I'm guessing cow towel = kowtow. But... Perhaps you do treat your cows nice n
stuff?

~~~
pseingatl
I think the term "cow towel" should be introduced into common usage. It's much
more visual than "kowtow," e.g. "The UK is the US'cow towel."

