

The cost of a [programmers] chair - JerryH
http://www.jeremyhutchings.com/2010/08/cost-of-chair.html

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substack
I personally can't stand office chairs. Give me a sofa and a short table or a
barstool and a counter, ideally both so I can switch between them, and I'm
content. The article just assumes that everybody works best in chairs, but
there are variations in how programmers best get work done. It's not simply a
matter of running a cost-benefit analysis on how much to spend.

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wyclif
For those without the cash to drop on Herman Miller, consider what I believe
is the lowest-cost, leanest solution to good ergonomics: the standing desk.
Don't wear shoes, stand up straight, and adjust the surface to where your arms
drop down and relax on the home row of your keyboard. After a brief adjustment
period it's possible to find yourself feeling better, with better posture,
breathing, and general well being.

Sitting in chairs too much is bad for your back. Ergonomically speaking,
sitting with your spine at a 45 degree angle to your legs is harmful to your
back, and it decreases mobility, even though people continue to spend large
sums of money on fancy ergonomic office chairs.

<http://saveyourself.ca/articles/chair-warriorism.php>

Winston Churchill used a standing desk in recognition of their benefits. There
are Japanese companies that have already implemented standing desks and
standing workspaces. Fortunately they are simple, inexpensive, easy to
implement and easy to adjust and adapt.

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PStamatiou
I have a regular desk that converts to a standing desk on my command..
<http://picplz.com/user/stammy/pic/gntn/>

Hacky, but it works and I can't tell you the number of other startup folk I've
met with that have the same kind of setup. Although theirs is usually more
permanent with reams of paper or textbooks.

I used to have a Herman Miller before I moved to SF, now I'm on a $47 office
max chair. It's only so comfortable for about 2 hours then I notice my posture
is horrible.

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wyclif
Nice hack, I like on the fly solutions like that, and best of all you didn't
have to buy anything new. That's the origin of the setup I have now, which is
semi-permanent. For a dedicated approach, I've heard people with a lot more
money than me rave about the Steelcase Airtouch:
[http://www.steelcase.com/en/products/category/tables/adjusta...](http://www.steelcase.com/en/products/category/tables/adjustable/airtouch/pages/overview.aspx)

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PStamatiou
I think the SF SimpleGeo office has those desks (along with a bunch of $$$ HM
Embody chairs). Definitely a pleasure to work on.

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wsimmons
We actually have these: <http://www.geekdesk.com/>

They are pretty awesome, but the full size ones are pretty huge.

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wyclif
How is the quality on the motors that adjust these? I've heard about those
Geekdesks, that was a good business idea IMO. I think I still like Steelcase
better just because it adjusts by hand and there aren't as many moving parts
or a motor to potentially burn out and replace.

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zdw
I actually replaced my chair today with one of these:

<http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50178864>

I'm 6'2' and this is the first chair I've had that's tall enough for me - the
headrest doesn't hit below the neck. Hopefully it'll wear well.

It doesn't have too many controls, which is a feature IMHO. I've tried Aeron's
before and frankly find them to be confusing and uncomfortable, but that's
from limited exposure.

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jrockway
It's not a feature; it means your body has to adjust to the chair instead of
the chair adjusting to your body. That said, I had an IKEA desk chair for many
years and found it to be quite comfortable.

I recently replaced an IKEA chair with the Herman Miller Embody, and it makes
a _huge_ difference. What I've found is that the adjustments need not be made
once and left forever, you can move the adjustments around throughout the day
and vary how your chair feels. It's nice.

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zach
When I finally set up a proper office this year, I was too daunted by the
prospect and cost of buying a proper chair. I just bought a used standing desk
setup off Craigslist and a foam mat from Amazon.

I haven't had back problems so I wasn't the usual standing-desk advocate. But
it has been great, and the low-tech desk will hold its value better than this
year's fashion in ergonomic chairs. Highly recommended.

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wccrawford
This is, of course, assuming that those really are minutes of lost
productivity. Truth is, you have to get up once in a while anyhow, for various
reasons. And taking time to move and think can be beneficial to code, too.

It's also assuming that it takes time to get -back- into the groove after a
walk-around. For me, it doesn't. If I have an idea in my head as I approach
the computer, I'm right in there.

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kapilkaisare
I bought a chair recently and opted for a vanilla, non swivel, no-wheels
model. The swivel function was useless to me in the previous models I used,
and I found I could get better value for my money once the swivels and wheels
were out of the way.

My chair is a durable, heavy duty cast iron frame with artificial leather
cushions and is close to my ideal of a perfect chair for me.

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sp4rki
I'd argue that the most important piece of equipment you can give a programmer
is a good chair. Not only are the bad ones bad for you, but they break easily
IMO. I'm 175 pounds and have gone through 4 chairs in 3 years of service. The
chairs are conformable though so it wasn't that bad. But I ended bringing my
own chair and when asked about it, I got reimbursed.

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JerryH
If they break they must be unsafe as well, I dare say there is some kind of
argument there for sure.

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sp4rki
Hah! You should see our chair graveyard, since I'm not the only one that
breaks them. We have probably around 12 broken chairs in a corner.

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JerryH
Sounds like something out of Office Space the movie.

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lsc
yes, we all understand that ergonomics are important. But adjusting the proper
chair properly and desk height are just as important for programmer comfort
and health.

How come there isn't much discussion of this? most of the hits on a google
search for "ergonomic experts" are for 'expert witnesses' for workmans comp
trials.

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jrockway
I think everyone knows you are supposed to adjust your chair correctly. I
recently bought an Embody chair, and it came with a link to a video on how to
adjust everything.

Something I don't understand, though, is how many desks are around that don't
adjust at all. I bought one for use at home and am going to have to replace it
soon; its height is unusably high. I've found that if you can't adjust your
chair, desk, _and_ monitor, you might as well not be able to adjust anything.

Strangely, I have an Aeron chair at work, but of course, the desk does not
adjust at all. 8 hours is about my upper limit for dealing with it, so while
there are many times when I'm at work and really want to stay late and finish
something, my body simply says no. When people want to work for you for free
but the $20 desk you bought them doesn't allow it... that's kind of a waste of
money.

(My company solves this problem by hiring more and more developers. So much
for the mythical man month...)

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lsc
but what is "correctly?" what feels best in the short term is not always best
in the long term... for example, those wrist rests feel pretty good for a
little while, but long term, if you actually rest your wrists on them, they
will cause serious problems for your wrists.

As for the desk problem, Ikea sells adjustable desks (that can adjust from "on
the floor" to "standing desk" in what looks like 1.5" increments) for under
two hundred bucks, though you need two guys and fifteen minutes to adjust it.
Me, I just set my keyboard on my lap and call it a day.

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X-Istence
I have the Apple keyboard and was able to do away with the wrist rests. So
much better for my wrists as I am able to put my whole arm on the table flat
and not have to strain my hands.

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lsc
my understanding is that putting your wrists on anything is pretty bad. Your
wrists, I believe (and I'm not an expert) should be absolutely straight, like
you are hitting the heavy bag. "there is no wrist."

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Groxx
Anyone used a kneeling chair somewhat extensively? I've been interested, in
part because they take up less room, but they're always over my college-status
price range.

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Nick_C
My parents used them around the house for years and my mother still uses one.
You need to adjust to them, but they are very comfortable after a few days. My
mother swears by it. I've used for a few hours and, yes, I can see why. Your
posture is correct with your spine vertical and straight.

I'm not sure why you say they take up less room, they're actually a little
longer than a normal chair. Also, they weren't particularly expensive.

The other alternative for correct posture that I've been recommended is
sitting on one of those large exercise balls. The idea sounds terrible to me
so I haven't tried it, but I can see the sense in it.

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Groxx
Many I've seen are a bit lower than my current desk chair, and also lack the
high back. All of which means my current desk chair can't fit entirely under /
flush with any desk. Having something which can fit entirely under a desk
would be extremely useful at times. Cost tends to be in the $200+ range, so
not bad for a good chair, but also a _lot_ when that's a lot of food, or a
couple bills.

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babeKnuth
getting up to stretch for 5 mins every hour or so can be important (primarily
hands and arms), even if you use an ergonomic chair. i find it helps the
"flow" rather than interrupt it (as the link claims).

i'd also recommend switching to an editor which minimizes keystrokes, such as
vi(m), emacs, etc. less wear and tear on the hands and arms.

there are many aspects in a workstation that can be improved upon. every
little bit helps.

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daveambrose
Any Steelcase Leap owners around? Lightly used can cost $300, which is a great
deal.

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JerryH
Indeed, it's how you use what you have as well.

