
Ask HN: Paypal alternatives for vendors outside the US? - aboutus
As a digital vendor who lives outside the US, I don&#x27;t want to be at the mercy of PayPal&#x27;s psychotic mood swings. What alternatives are out there to process payments and accept payouts from gumroad, paddle, Leanpub etc?
======
egomaksab
I recommend Fastspring
([http://www.fastspring.com](http://www.fastspring.com)). Yes, it's more
expensive than others but it has a lot of features that make it worth it. The
main selling point for us was that essential you sell your product wholesale
to Fastspring and they become the seller. This makes accounting and taxes much
easier, especially for EU customers.

~~~
aboutus
At first glance, Fastspring looks fantastic. It even accepts PayPal, so I
don't have to miss out on those sales. Hopefully it's the real deal.

~~~
SyneRyder
Fastspring is great, I've used them for the last 5 years. They handle VAT as
well, one of the main reasons I use them (I'd rather not deal with that
bureaucracy myself).

It's still a good idea to have a second payment processor, in case one has
downtime or a customer has a problem charging their card. I've never had
problems with Fastspring, but I occasionally had problems with others - I have
a switch in my backend where I can flip to a second payment processor
instantly.

------
MarkCole
For European businesses Paymill might be an alternative. It works pretty much
exactly the same as Stripe, just available in more/different countries.

[http://www.paymill.com](http://www.paymill.com)

~~~
bojanz
For our European SaaS we had to switch from Paymill to Stripe because a large
percentage of US customers would get their cards rejected when paying via
Paymill.

(Paymill is Europe-only, and when a US bank detects a payment going out to
Europe, it flags it as fraud. Thanks, US banks!)

~~~
grobmeier
Oh my god. I saw this by random. I see clear now. Thank you.

------
chrowe
Hey, I'm the CEO at Paddle.com (mentioned in your initial post). Wondering
what we can be doing to make withdrawing your Paddle earnings easier. We
opperate in a very similar way to Fastspring - in that you sell your products
wholesale to us and we become the merchant of record (and it seems you're
already familiar with us).

Would love to see how we can help you out (we're a little cheaper than FS too
if that's a deciding factor for you).

~~~
mrcold
Competition is always great. So here are my problems with Paddle:

1\. Too much hidden information. The main page should specify the pricing
because that's the first thing we all look at. Yes, I know about the pricing
page. But a click away is one too many. And I couldn't find a list of
supported countries. If I don't know the cost and if I can get it, I'm not
going to waste time asking.

2\. You're cheaper than FastSpring now. But when FastSpring started it was a
lot cheaper and more dynamic. You're competing with PayPal, not FastSpring.
And PayPal is charging 2.9% + $0.30. So start where FastSpring started, not
where it is after a couple years of growth. A bonus would be to find cost-
effective ways to handle different price points. A 5% fee is ok for a $5 sale,
but for a $1000 sale it's a bit too much.

3\. Not sure how to say this in a more diplomatic way, but your store forms
look spammy. Maybe the cluttered elements, maybe the asymmetrical design. You
should talk with a designer and create something cleaner and nicer. The
purchase forms are the last step of a sale. If they are not perfect, the
client can easily change his mind. At least this is how I feel as a seller.

Good luck. And find ways to do things better. Innovation always attract
people.

~~~
chrowe
Hey, thanks for the feedback.

1\. Interesting, we don't usually get that, and maintain a fairly detailed
pricing page + FAQ
([https://www.paddle.com/pricing](https://www.paddle.com/pricing)) perhaps we
should link to this from the homepage.

2\. I don't agree that we're trying to compete with PayPal on price. Paddle is
intended to be a premium product (and thus we charge a premium over PayPal for
example). Paddle handles: VAT/ Tax collection + remittance, digital product
delivery and all order-related customer support for you (plus a bunch of other
features and tools). We don't aim to compete with PayPal, however there is a
crossover in our services. In terms of the pricing aspect, we're flexible/
open to different pricing scenarios. While a $1,000 transaction size is
certainly uncommon, I do agree that this requires a little more thought on the
pricing front.

3\. On the checkout side of things, I find that incredibly surprising! :)
We're typically told how beautiful our checkout process is (and it typically
converts 2-3x higher than a usual checkout page). Could you ping over a
purchase form that you're looking at? (or email me: christian@paddle.com) as
I'd love to get a slightly more detailed critique.

Feedback can only make us better.

------
bizifyme
You are welcome to try out our service,
[https://www.bizify.me](https://www.bizify.me)

We have higher fees then PayPal but we also support payment by mobile phone
(SMS) in a lot of countries and of course also payment by credit card.

You can read more about our service here: [https://www.bizify.me/hacker-
news/](https://www.bizify.me/hacker-news/)

If you would like to try out our service, just contact us and we'll give you a
great rate if your products are "normal" products. Adult related content is a
little higher risk so we can't give you as good rate on adult as we can on
"normal" products.

PS: You can check out our WordPress plugin if you are running a WordPress
blog:
[https://wordpress.org/plugins/bizifyme/](https://wordpress.org/plugins/bizifyme/)

------
benev
We use Paypal, Stripe, GoCardless (UK only I think), and Bitpay.

Although we are obviously aware of Paypal's mood swings, we haven't been the
victim of any. So far all of the above have worked well for us. They've all
been easy to integrate.

------
Shizka
Great question! I recently launched a startup where we ended up using Paypal
because we simply couldn't find any good alternatives. It is a huge drawback
from our point of view and we really want an alternative. There just doesn't
seem to be one.

We wanted to set up a payment flow where a consumer would transfer the money
to us, and after the delivery of the product we would transfer it to the
seller. Strripe offers something that can accomodate this flow, but not
internationally. It is only available in the US.

There seems to be a huge gap in the market here. Is there something missing
from my exploration of alternatives?

~~~
steven2012
At least in the US, what you are attempting to do would probably run into a
bunch of regulations. Not only are you probably aggregating funds, which
smacks into money laundering regulations, but VISA/MC rules say you can't
charge a card before the product ships. If what you are trying to do is some
sort of escrow service, again at least in the US, that requires a license.

~~~
Shizka
Thanks for the answer. Ouch, that makes sense and it is probably something
similar in Europe.

Do you have any idea for how to ensure that the person has the funds when we
need to charge the card?

And do you know how vendors like Airbnb handles this?

~~~
scoot
_Do you have any idea for how to ensure that the person has the funds when we
need to charge the card?_

You preauthorise the card for the amount at purchase, then complete the
transaction on shipment.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Would you not preauthorize the card again right before shipment? What if their
card is no longer valid, closed, or is past their credit limit?

------
yazinsai
For the folks over in the Middle East, there's
[https://whitepayments.com/](https://whitepayments.com/)

(As if the guy on the front page didn't give it away)

~~~
aiaf
The login link on top takes you to a non-secure page :/

------
greenwalls
Cleverbridge [https://www.cleverbridge.com](https://www.cleverbridge.com) is
great and works well with International and American users.

------
thibaut_barrere
(EU-based freelancer and SaaS builder here). I can warmly recommend
[https://www.recurly.com](https://www.recurly.com), which I use to handle
recurring billing on a number of projects (my own SaaS
[https://www.wisecashhq.com](https://www.wisecashhq.com), but also client
projects such as
[https://www.boxcar.io/developer](https://www.boxcar.io/developer) and
[https://www.process-one.net/en/ejabberd/saas/](https://www.process-
one.net/en/ejabberd/saas/)).

It can be used together with Stripe as a gateway (much recommended, the setup
is much faster than on other gateways), and provides a full-featured setup
with PCI SAQ A, VAT handling, PDF invoices, coupons, dunning etc.

------
namenotrequired
Nationally many countries have their own local market leader. In the
Netherlands, iDeal is the most popular (and the most user friendly of those
I've tried). [http://www.ideal.nl](http://www.ideal.nl)

For moving money internationally and between currencies there is TransferWise,
which I personally mainly use for c2c payment but they also support business
accounts and I've used it to pay companies on occasion too.

With a TransferWise invite link you can transfer up to £3000 (over $4.5k) for
free, here's mine:
[https://transferwise.com/u/5d78](https://transferwise.com/u/5d78)

Where I work we use mangopay, which is specifically for marketplaces.
[http://www.mangopay.com](http://www.mangopay.com)

~~~
simi_
I was going to recommend TransferWise too, more of a second hand
recommendation since I haven't used it but I've had several friends praise it.

------
fjuan
If you're in Europe, give a try to [https://klarna.com](https://klarna.com).
It's more than a payment processor, and can help you a lot! Disclaimer: klarna
employee.

------
tobeportable
In europe [https://www.hipay.com/](https://www.hipay.com/) was cleary easier
to set up then something more popular, like ogone, and had much better prices
for us

------
buro9
What are you selling?

I'd say Stripe, but it depends what you're selling:
[https://stripe.com/us/prohibited-
businesses](https://stripe.com/us/prohibited-businesses)

If what you're selling in any way touches any of the things on that list, then
you should get your own merchant account and handle it directly. It's messy,
it's work you don't want to do, but the list of prohibited businesses put on
you by your bank is much shorter than the list put on you by Stripe, PayPal,
etc.

~~~
walshemj
Computer technical support is in the high risk category?

~~~
thejetset
I'd imagine that's the result of both somewhat dishonest advertising and scams
that are being run by companies that advertised themselves as technical
support or "Fix Your PC" companies. Like the "I'm calling from Microsoft" scam
- [http://www.howtogeek.com/180514/the-%E2%80%9Ctech-
support%E2...](http://www.howtogeek.com/180514/the-%E2%80%9Ctech-
support%E2%80%9D-scammers-called-htg-so-we-had-fun-with-them/)

~~~
walshemj
ah yes I see the point now

------
robertpohl
I run a Sweden based payment service called
[https://www.mondido.com](https://www.mondido.com), with support for cards and
subscriptions.

------
andersthue
I sell downloadable software.

I have tried shareit, bluesnap and avangate.

Avangate checkout flow peformed best.

I am currently working on switching to cleverbridge, ping me if you want stats
on them when I have switched.

------
zone
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Paddle.com. It seems to be open to any
business worldwide and it offers a Stripe modern looking payment form.

~~~
jakobegger
They have pretty annoying sales people. Contacted me out of the blue and
didn't leave me alone until I responded in a rather impolite manner.

~~~
chrowe
Hey - CEO of Paddle.com here. Really sorry one of our sales guys was a little
overzealous :( we'll make sure we do better in future.

------
DiabloD3
Bitcoin.

~~~
tckr
Stripe has Bitcoin suppport now:
[https://stripe.com/bitcoin](https://stripe.com/bitcoin)

~~~
yc1010
It does BUT it doesnt have zero fees nor does it have next business day
settlement like bitpay does

------
irrlichthn
I can recommend BMTMicro: [http://www.bmtmicro.com/](http://www.bmtmicro.com/)
Payment processor with the best support I had so far. Supports nearly every
payment type and does all the nasty stuff for you (invoices, recharges,
customer support etc)

------
WA
I have a SaaS that processes payments with PayPal since 2011 and I never had a
single problem. I know about the horror stories, frozen accounts and whatnot,
but maybe it's also worth considering where your opinion comes from.

I also use Stripe and accept wire transfers.

------
markdown
2CO/2Checkout works great for me. You can withdraw your funds either via wire
transfer or a Mastercard debit card issued by Payoneer.com

Have used them for 7 years without issue.

------
silver1
Bluesnap.com (Supports 180 Countries, 110 Payment Types, 60 Currencies & 29
Languages) - Dont know why no one has matched the features offered by this
service ...

paywithatweet.com (pay with twitter)

chargebee.com

adyen.com

afex.com

securetrading.com

credorax.com

ccavenue.com

moneybookers.com

2checkout.com

chargebee.com

For India (stricter rules of double authentication:

payzippy.com

paytm.com

zaakpay.com

citruspay.com

payupaisa.com

indiapay.com

payu.in

------
mastersk3
PayMill, Braintree and Stripe for Europe; eWay or Pin for Australia and,
2Checkout or Worldpay for everywhere else.

~~~
ssully
Braintree was bought by Ebay last year. Someone looking for an alternative to
PayPal probably won't be too inspired when they see "A PayPal Company" below
Braintree's logo[1].

[1]: [https://www.braintreepayments.com/](https://www.braintreepayments.com/)

------
rodolphoarruda
For latin america: MercadoLibre or MercadoPago. They are from Argentina and
work very well.

------
gettingreal
If you can use stripe, that should be your first choice.

Failing that, 2Checkout and
[http://www.fastspring.com/](http://www.fastspring.com/) are really good and
2Checkout works in many countries.

The other option would be to just get your own merchant account and use
something like WorldPay

------
zhte415
Alipay

Another huge elephant in the room.

------
zura
Can anyone recommend a service with flat-fee only option?

------
known
Talk to your Bank;

------
Giorgi
MoneyBookers?

------
Giorgi
Moneybookers?

------
ExpiredLink
Any payment provider. You can chose between dozens per country.

