
Welcome Chris Lattner - nil_is_me
https://www.tesla.com/blog/welcome-chris-lattner
======
abalone
What's really interesting about this is not just that Lattner is brilliant and
liked, but that is highlights just how critical _software correctness and
reliability_ is to autonomous vehicles. Naively one might have expected some
machine learning expert to take over the reins at Tesla. But fast-moving
Silicon Valley needs a fundamental shift in quality standards when it comes to
safety-critical software, and if you look closely, Lattner has been leading
this charge at the language and compiler level.

His work has been distinguished by the melding of language _safety_ ,
_reliability_ and _clarity_ , that is, not merely having sophisticated
constructs that help the guarantee correctness, but also making code simple,
beautiful and easy to read. Ultimately writing safe code depends on the
ability of the programmer to comprehend it, so creating a programming
environment that's successful on all fronts is a foundational achievement.

A notable example: LLVM enabled ARC, a beautifully simple approach to memory
management that removed much (not all) of the need for the developer to
implement details in code, while providing high efficiency and, perhaps even
more importantly, predictable performance (no garbage collection pauses).
These are all essential for safety-critical realtime software.

~~~
devsquid
ARC is a whole debate, but the one thing it is not is simple and I would argue
its more error prone than a traditional GC. I've used it for most of my career
and I have seen what sloppy/unaware coding can do to it.

Lattner is a well known expert on compilers. Having used Swift since its
inception, I would call into question the reliability of the Swift LLVM
compiler. In its current state (3.0.2) its absolutely terrible and does not
back up the sentiment; "But fast-moving Silicon Valley needs a fundamental
shift in quality standards when it comes to safety-critical software, and if
you look closely, Lattner has been leading this charge at the language and
compiler level".

~~~
solidsnack9000
The right comparison for ARC is with manual memory management -- not GC.

~~~
adevine
Depends on what your point is. Both ARC and GC are approaches to limit the
complexity and difficulty of memory management. As such, I think it's very
reasonable to compare them, because they're different approaches to the same
underlying problem.

FWIW, as someone who was a Java programmer for over a decade before learning
Objective C right after ARC came on the scene, I greatly prefer ARC over
garbage collection. I find the things you have to remember to think about with
both ARC and GC (e.g. circular references and unintentionally strongly
reachable references) to be about the same cognitive load, but the
deterministic, predictable behavior of ARC means you won't have to try to
debug random GC hangs that only happen in prod under heavy load and the
subsequent fiddling with a million GC options to get performance to be
acceptable.

~~~
pjmlp
ARC is a GC implementation algorithm, you probably mean tracing GC algorithm.

"The Garbage Collection Handbook", chapter 5

[http://gchandbook.org/](http://gchandbook.org/)

~~~
rimantas
I think it is time for you to buy more books.

~~~
pjmlp
I have a very good collection of CS books and papers about programming
languages and compiler design...

------
naaaaak
Apple has a car project. Autopilot must be one of its core features. But Apple
would not create a VP-level position for Autopilot or any one feature for any
of their products (even if they it called something else for
secrecy/generalization reasons).

This move increases his compensation and clout. Post-Tesla, he'll only have VP
or founder titles elsewhere, never anything lower-level (unless he gets his
old job back). The change must be welcoming, too.

That Apple could not retain him speaks volumes of the company they've become.
They're a conglomerate at the intersection of tech and fashion. Groundbreaking
engineering is not always given its proper due (or compensation) because
there's only so many seats at the table. They've become rigidly corporate and
not particularly inspiring.

Good luck to him, and good job taking a chance. Working for someone with a
vision other than "thin" must be a welcoming change.

~~~
will_pseudonym
> Working for someone with a vision other than "thin" must be a welcoming
> change.

This is so spot on. I would kill for a thicker phone with a less vibrant
display that would last 2x as long on a single charge. They're pushing stuff
that the consumer doesn't want (thinner/less battery volume, no headphone
jack) in order to make money. It reminds me a lot of the TV industry pushing
3D TV's. I don't know a single person who has ever watched, let alone
regularly, any 3D content on their 3D TV. It's a technology that few wanted
but was pushed to drive sales.

~~~
jolux
>They're pushing stuff that the consumer doesn't want (thinner/less battery
volume, no headphone jack) in order to make money.

But how do you know that people don't want this? All the people who told me
they were switching to Android because of the headphone jack ended up with
iPhone 7s anyways and love them. And now it seems that Samsung's next phone is
going to ditch the jack too. Not to mention the numbers aren't really in favor
of suggesting this change is hugely unpopular.

~~~
will_pseudonym
Because the portable battery pack market size was estimated to be $15B in
2014[0], and is projected to grow to $17B by 2020[0]. That's saying nothing of
the massive anecdotal evidence.

[0] [https://globenewswire.com/news-
release/2016/04/04/825448/0/e...](https://globenewswire.com/news-
release/2016/04/04/825448/0/en/Global-Power-Bank-Market-Poised-to-Surge-from-
USD-15-09-Billion-in-2014-to-USD-17-2-Billion-by-2020-MarketResearchStore-
Com.html)

~~~
mikestew
I would argue that the battery pack market has little to do with whether or
not folks think their phones are too thin. For instance, in day-to-day use I
don't recall ever plugging a device into a battery pack. But I own two of
them. Because once in a while I'm in the middle of, say, the Yukon or Alaska
and haven't seen a power outlet in days, but perhaps would like a movie in my
tent or to write a blog post. (I could charge from outlets on the motorcycle,
but I've got enough crap plugged in the way it is.) So most of the time those
packs sit on a shelf and are no reflection on whether or not I feel the iPhone
battery is adequate for normal use.

Not everyone hangs in the same circles, but lots of (for example)
motorcyclists buy these for general "plug in at camp" use. Run a small light,
charge the GoPro, and some do use them to charge a phone. Hell, some of them
use them as jump start batteries which is about as far away from anything
related to cell phones as I can imagine in the portable power market.

In summary, quoting battery pack market size merely reflects the desire for
folks to have portable electrical power, for whatever they feel they might
need it for.

------
mrkd
Elon Musk is the new Steve Jobs.

He is an inspirational leader and talented people want to work with him. It
appears it will be harder and harder to attract and keep talent at Apple with
out a leader like Steve Jobs.

~~~
celticninja
I think Elon Musk is what Steve Jobs wanted to be. Steve Jobs thought he was
changing the world with the iPhone, and while it was new it wasn't world
changing. What Elon Musk does is world changing.

~~~
AsyncAwait
Probably not a popular opinion, but I think Musk is overrated. The guy has a
huge ego, just like Jobs had, and while he's putting it into a nice package,
he's not the guy to come up with anything; electric cars, spacecraft etc.

Yes, he might change the world if/once he gets to Mars, but most of his stuff
is a marketing tech demo.

Bell Labs changed the world. Tesla did not.

~~~
stupidcar
Have you read Vance's biography of Musk? He's definitely a flawed individual
in many ways, but I don't think he's fundamentally an egotist. Certainly not
to the sociopathic degree many business leaders are.

And I think your categorisation of his work as a tech demo is unfair, and
uninformed. SpaceX have built rockets that are delivering satellites into
orbit and supplies to the international space station, and have achieved
reusability. They have played a significant part in building a private sector
space industry. These are not tech demos, they are real things. Can you boast
any such achievement in your own life?

Likewise, Tesla have built and sold electric cars that people want. They've
created a global re-charging network to supply them. And they've been the
first company to deploy significant automation into the automobile market on a
large scale. These are not tech demos, any more than the gigafactory rising
out o the Nevada desert is.

~~~
Cyph0n
> Can you boast any such achievement in your own life?

That was an unnecessary remark; the commenter never claimed that he/she has
achieved more than Musk.

~~~
stupidcar
The commenter claims Musk hasn't achieved anything at all, other than give
some tech demos.

I'm perfectly entitled to ask what they've achieved themselves that puts them
in a position to so casually demean what, by most people's standards, are
quite considerable feats.

~~~
Cyph0n
What OP has or has not achieved is irrelevant in my opinion. I think it's
better form to just refute the criticism and leave OP out of it. But it's up
to you of course.

~~~
solipsism
In the meanwhile you've taken the entire conversation off course to serve as
the politeness police.

------
carlosdp
Wow, that was unexpected. Great hire by Tesla. Interesting move from compiler
development to driving AI, though I guess for the VP position, his experience
in managing those teams is much more important.

~~~
chimeracoder
> Wow, that was unexpected. Great poach by Tesla.

Tangential, but I really hate the term "poach" when referring to recruiting
employees.

We shouldn't think of hiring people as "poaching", because employees are not
property. You can't "poach" an employee because there's no ownership, and
employees should be free to make their own decisions regarding their
employment opportunities.

~~~
Angostura
I hope you similarly dislike the term 'head-hunt' on the grounds that no-one's
head is severed. 'Poach' is a useful metaphor that suggests that one company
actively tried to lure an employee from another. It is a metaphor, it doesn't
imply that the employee is a chattel. I think one can get a bit too precious
about these things.

~~~
aschampion
Language shapes perception shapes language, so it's absolutely worthwhile to
be vigilant and critical about the idioms we endorse by adopting, especially
for engineered phrases (e.g., "right to work").

~~~
Angostura
I absolutely agree about the power of language to shape thought. But consider,
whenever you've heard of company A poaching employee Y from company B, has it
really subtly made you think of Y as a helpless object?

Whenever, I see it, I think of the two companies plying Y with enticements,
with Y manipulating them until (s)he finally gets rich rewards with the new
company.

~~~
mikeash
It doesn't make me think of Y as a helpless object. But it does make me think
of A as doing something wrong. I strongly object to the term because it
implies that companies shouldn't compete for employees, which pushes our
salaries down.

~~~
ghaff
I think that's fair. After all, poach has literal meanings that apply to acts
that are clearly wrong or illegal. In fact, if I look at the dictionary, you
see words like trespass, steal, etc.

You do hear poach used colloquially or even somewhat jokingly when it's not
intended to imply anything nefarious but the word does imply something
underhanded.

------
n00b101
Chris Lattner : Tesla :: Bjarne Stroustrup : Morgan Stanley [1]

[1] [http://www.morganstanley.com/profiles/bjarne-stroustrup-
mana...](http://www.morganstanley.com/profiles/bjarne-stroustrup-managing-
director-technology)

~~~
ajeet_dhaliwal
I'm surprised Stroustrup is working at Morgan Stanley.

~~~
pjmlp
Finance is one area where C++ still rules as full stack language.

In the typical enterprise, whose domain isn't selling software products, C++
tends to be mostly used as infrastructure language for .NET/Java/JS native
libraries or interacting with their runtime APIs.

~~~
ajeet_dhaliwal
I work in the games industry and C++ is used for almost all system code (not
tools) but this still feels like Shigeru Miyamoto taking a gig at a toy shop
or Spielberg working at Universal Studios amusement park.

------
gtrubetskoy
There's got to be more to this story. You don't spend years developing a
language (Swift) as culmination of previous work (LLVM) and then abandon it
for a job in a relatively new and different discipline. It doesn't make much
sense to me.

~~~
n00b101
My guess is that the Tesla Autopilot Software team is working on
language/compiler abstractions to reduce their dependency on semiconductor
hardware manufacturers, particularly NVIDIA [1]. NVIDIA hardware has been
Tesla cars for many years, and they have a dominating position in both
embedded and data center hardware for self-driving AI, and they are not afraid
to partner with Tesla's competitors [2]. This whole ecosystem is based on CUDA
toolchain, which is built atop LLVM [3]. And Chris Lattner is the original
developer of LLVM.

[1] [https://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla-and-
nvidia.html](https://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla-and-nvidia.html) [2]
[https://www.nvidia.com/object/audi-and-
nvidia.html](https://www.nvidia.com/object/audi-and-nvidia.html) [3]
[http://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/nvvm-ir-
spec/#axzz4VMqXIKfo](http://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/nvvm-ir-spec/#axzz4VMqXIKfo)

~~~
peller
Considering the recent hire of Tesla's new Vice President of Autopilot
_Hardware_ Engineering team was Jim Keller[0], the lead architect for AMD's K8
(Athlon 64) and a very influential force behind both Apple's A* chips and
AMD's Zen (Ryzen), I think you're right that they're looking to rely less on
NVIDIA.

My guess would be that Tesla's ambitions are set on controlling the whole
stack. Something along the lines of a custom software toolchain for tailor-
built silicon.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_\(engineer\))

------
freshyill
Well, mystery solved.

Now, the new mystery: What does this mean for Apple's car project?

Yes, I realize he probably didn't have much (or anything) to do with it
(whatever it really even is). There are going to be some batshit crazy
theories though, and I can't wait to see how this affects Apple's stock price.

~~~
bredren
Car is clearly a bet-the-company level product for Apple. Tesla looking more
and more like a bet-the-company acquisition.

~~~
kornish
How is Apple Car clearly a bet-the-company level product for Apple? It could
just be Apple's normal secrecy, but as far as I know that project isn't
generally well-known enough to be mentioned in the same pantheon as Google or
Tesla.

------
jaegerpicker
So I kinda what to be Chris Lattner when I grow up. :) LLVM, Swift, and
Autopiloting cars is a hell of a run.

------
salimmadjd
I've met Chris and he is one of the nicest and humblest guy you can imagine.
I'm not betting on him lasting in Tesla for more than 12 months. I think there
will be a cultural conflict.

~~~
Etzos
Could you explain why you think there will be a cultural conflict? Do Tesla
engineers typically act in ways counter to being nice and humble?

~~~
_1
It's more like the person above than the people below.

~~~
pseudometa
Chris did work under the leadership of Steve Jobs for 5 years.

~~~
scott_karana
He worked under Jobs as a direct report, like a VP role is?!

I had the impression he wasn't that high in the totem pole before Jobs died...

------
eddanger
This is very exciting for the future of Autopilot. I thought it was amazing
already. I can't wait to see what they have in store.

------
sudeepj
Being a Rust-lang fan, I would have loved to see him join the rust-lang group
(which I am not a part of). I thought there might be a chance of this after I
saw the post of him leaving Apple.

------
dbg31415
Top two stories right now are about people leaving Apple... I don't think that
bodes well for Apple.

------
zubairq
I always liked that Chris Lattner pubicly acknowledged Light Table as the
inspiration for SWIFT Playgrounds:
[http://www.nondot.org/sabre/](http://www.nondot.org/sabre/) Now, of course
their new project is Eve

------
alpb
Obviously, also related from the home page right now:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13366542](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13366542)

------
breatheoften
(wish) Maybe he's being hired to make enhancements to swift/llvm for
numerically intensive computation? It would be awesome to see a pure-swift
version of something like tensor-flow and all the compiler machinery to make
it fast!

------
shmerl
What languages are used by Tesla for developing autopilot software?

------
ChuckMcM
Way to go Chris! It has to be pretty awesome when the CEO tweets and blogs
that you're joining the team. No pressure!

------
reacharavindh
Interesting twist : Apple buys Tesla and elevates Elon to the missing role of
Steve Jobs. Wouldn't it be nice...

------
gmosx
It's quite interesting that there is no public comment from any other member
of the Swift Core Team.

------
twsted
Yesterday reading "Update on the Swift Project Lead" I was going to comment
"He will go to Tesla".

Pure lucky, but my reasoning was that it is difficult for a compiler (etc)
engineer like him to find a better job than the one he was doing at Apple:
developers' tools, compiler infrastructure, a new programming language, Coding
playground and so on.

------
72deluxe
Argh who's in charge of Xcode and Swift at Apple now????

------
zanko
Recording the conversation and filmed

------
gigatexal
Wow! My faith in autopilot just increased.

------
withparadox2
I doubt that this is a right decision.

~~~
tgtweak
Care to elaborate?

------
Scuds
Congrats from us CS @ UIUC peeps!

------
camus2
That was quick! Congrats.

------
mozumder
Did not see that coming...

------
yborg
Maybe Tesla is the Apple Graveyard now.

[http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/08/elon-musk-if-you-dont-
make...](http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/08/elon-musk-if-you-dont-make-it-at-
tesla-you-go-work-at-apple/)

------
kelvin0
Yeah, I would work for Tesla in a heartbeat (or SpaceX, or Solar City or any
of the Mega Factories). Well it's back to Access programming for me ... :(

------
tbrock
Good for him.

This is awful though. People can't really think spending time on autopilot for
rich people sports cars is more important than the LLVM compiler
infrastructure.

Give me a break!

Even if tesla invents cool new batteries and changes the way we think about
power all of that stuff still has to run on software, that the compiler
infrastructure depends on...

~~~
grzm
Developing a system that can handle a complex, variable, real-world
environment like driving surely has applications in other domains. LLVM and
Swift are great contributions, and make development easier. That said, I don't
see them changing software development as significantly as the possibilities
opened up by systems like Tesla's autopilot.

------
DoodleBuggy
I guess CarPlay or "Project Titan" just wasn't as interesting?

------
megablast
I hate it when big companies buy other, smaller entities, and hope they don't
interfere and change them too much.

But seriously, exciting news for Tesla.

~~~
carlosdp
What? What small entity are you referring to?

~~~
eliben
Some apple vendor, probably

