
Judges sentence youth offenders to chess, with promising results - okket
http://theconversation.com/judges-sentence-youth-offenders-to-chess-with-promising-results-96172
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ramblerman
> In life, like chess, every move has a consequence.

This is all pretty hyperbolic post-hoc reasoning.

My guess is that against the alternative of juveniles just sitting in a cell
and being neglected any program that stimulates them, invests time and effort
into them, and gets them passionate is going to have promising results.

disclaimer: I think this is a great result, and should be promoted but the
pseudo-scientific explanations just get to me...

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projectramo
Yes, if this had backfired I wonder if people would talk about how chess
"Makes you see everything in black and white. You win or lose, or rarely draw.
There is no team work!"

It would be interesting to know if chess is more effective than, say, reading
or making movies. There is something intellectual about it.

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nerdponx
I imagine there's something beneficial in the fact that it's competitive, and
therefore non-solitary. You're forced to interact with your opponent.

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galkk
Depends on the definition of interaction. In professional chess you aren't
allowed to interact with opponent (talk etc) at all. All you do is greet, make
moves, record them and offer draw, resign or accept resignation. You can have
some interaction later.

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binarymax
When I was a teenager (in the 90s) I was a chess teacher/coach. I won't quote
cliches and metaphors which I believe are trite and gloss over the point.

While we had a large group of behaved kids, some parents would send their
troublesome children to learn chess as a way to socialize in a healthy
intellectual environment with a strong value and ethics system. As a coach it
was very difficult, especially since I was socially awkward and troubled
myself as a teen. We wouldn't just play chess though - which can get very
competitive and one sided. We also enjoyed team activities like the chess
variants bughouse and kriegspiel, and we'd get outside and play soccer and
kickball too - I found those to be the most helpful (I _love_ those two
variants I mentioned much more than chess).

In short, the rewards were real and long-lasting. Chess helped turn me around
personally, and gave me an exposure for responsibility (and I fucked up a
couple times but that's part of learning from mistakes in life). I know many
of the children in our club went on to have responsible and successful lives,
and while it wasn't really our goal (we were just playing games!), it makes me
happy that it was a side effect.

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toomanybeersies
In Australia, they have (or were) using flying lessons to try and rehabilitate
drug addicts [1]. Apparently the idea was to stall the plane and have the
patients recover from the stall, as a way of teaching them about taking
control of their own life. I don't know what the long term results are, and
it's part of a longer term rehab program so it would be hard to narrow it down
specifically.

Regardless, it's an interesting approach. It's good to see that authorities
are realising that the traditional approaches to addiction and criminal
rehabilitiation are ineffective and trying other options.

[1] [https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-
australia-43369891/austral...](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-
australia-43369891/australia-fights-drug-addiction-with-plane-flying-lessons)

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J-dawg
I've noticed people often object to these types of schemes because they see
them as rewarding people for bad behaviour.

I'm not usually one of those people (If it works, it works, right?). But I
feel like giving out flying lessons (a lifelong and unaffordable goal for many
people) would be a pretty tough idea to sell to the tax paying public.

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yardie
Add it to the long list of shit taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for, except
prison. Incarceration costs $70-120k/pp/year. Keeping someone in custody for
10-20 years vs paying to learn a trade seems no nsensical. But that’s what the
voters and politicians want.

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ams6110
The counter argument would be we should spend less on prisons, not more on
other stuff. People who struggle to make ends meet within the confines of
social norms and laws would say lock them up six to a cell and feed them rice
and beans.

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binarymax
This argument is deeply flawed, since moving people into prisons is just
throwing them away from your view. Many people are unjustly convicted and the
idea of taking even more rights away from the incarcerated is barbaric and
detrimental to our society. Prisons are micro-totalitarian regimes with abuse
and violence as a part of every-day life. We should do everything we can do to
reduce the number of people in prison and allow them to lead healthy and
productive lives.

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leblowl
I'm inclined to agree. I think if we can't stop a person from continually
hurting others, like a serial killer, then yea we should probably put
him/her/etc. somewhere safe. But other then that (and I am sure a few other
cases) this whole locking people up thing seems inhumane. I don't advocate
theft, but I don't think people should be kept in cages for it. After all we
were born with nothing but our bodies to start with. Also one shouldn't be
prosecuted for what they put in their own body. It's pretty odd that folks
will bust down my door and lock me up for posession of heroin, but the doctor
can deal it all day down the street.

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omeid2
Slightly off topic but I would like to mention that if you play chess online,
the best one is lichess.org. It is free and opensource:
[https://github.com/ornicar/lila](https://github.com/ornicar/lila).

I am unaffiliated but really like lichess.

~~~
fernandopj
They are indeed a great example of an OSS success. Their website is great,
apps run smoothly, great community and a very active founder - he insists on
the project being open and adfree forever, supported by patrons:
[https://lichess.org/patron](https://lichess.org/patron)

I'm also unaffiliated, just a user.

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implements
Season 1, episode 3 of "The Wire" has a pretty inciteful scene featuring Chess
as a metaphor for the criminal life ("Pawns get capped early."):

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztc7o0NzFrE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztc7o0NzFrE)

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SubiculumCode
As much as I love the Wire, it should have mentioned that collectively pawns
are the most powerful. A good pawn structure controls the center and the game.

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gowld
... if they don't get capped early. In a less-positional game, the players are
going to capture pawns to build an edge, not attack the queen immediately.

~~~
V-2
The objective is to attack the king, not the queen.

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psergeant
I’d be interested to see its effectiveness vs any other activity involving
high quality time with intelligent, motivated, caring adults.

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SubiculumCode
Chess limits the blame game. You lost because you didn't think, son. Chess
encapsulates an attitude that it starts and ends with yourself.

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mondoshawan
I do wonder, what, exactly they mean by non-violent crimes. It's early in the
morning and my brain isn't quite up to snuff yet, but all I can think of are
vandalism, copyright violation, and stealing...?

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chriskanan
Most property crimes, such as theft, embezzlement, receipt of stolen goods,
vandalism, and arson of personal property

Fraud, tax crimes, other forms of white collar crime

Drug and alcohol-related crimes

Prostitution

Racketeering and gambling

Bribery

From: [https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/non-
violent-v...](https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/non-violent-vs-
violent-crimes.html)

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toomanybeersies
I don't think they're locking kids up in juvie for tax evasion...

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d0lph
Technically children do have to pay taxes.

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gowld
Simply "not paying" taxes gets you a bill, not jail time. It's hard work to do
the kind of evasion that gets jail time.

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dschuetz
"Every move has consequences" \- That is absolutely brilliant! Is there any
better way to explain such an abstract life concept to kids who can't see the
consequences of whatever they do?

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omeid2
At the wake of all these concerns around video games, I am gonna risk it still
and say Video Games.

It teaches a lot about consequences. Perhaps not on par with chess, because,
most popular games demands much less exercise in deliberation and
strategic(/critical?) thinking.

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mehrdadn
What are the consequences? Respawning?

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omeid2
Losing the _game_ , you might get a few chance to respawn, but most games have
some sort of scoring system. It is not much different than a game of Chess, in
many ways.

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mehrdadn
With chess at least you have to restart from the beginning, like starting your
life over I guess, making you rethink your strategy. With video games you
typically regain health and restart from the last save...

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toolslive
In the middle ages, backgammon was more popular than chess as it was seen as a
closer to real life than chess. In backgammon, you have the concept of luck
playing a role too. The meta lesson is: Luck can play a big role, but you
still need a strategy.

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mehrdadn
Life isn't quite as nondeterministic as backgammon!!

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ca98am79
The great thing about chess is that it does not discriminate. A child can beat
an adult, poor can beat rich, uneducated can beat educated, etc..

When I played as a kid, it gave me a lot of confidence because I could beat a
grown adult in a game of intellect. This had a huge impact on my life.

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forkLding
I wonder if Go is a better game, it is quite easy to pick up (surround
opponents with different colour) but also very long to play.

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kazinator
Chess will teach the youth to be better strategists, to better evade the
authorities when they become adult offenders.

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RickJWagner
I bet they cheat. :)

Seriously, it seems like it would encourage discipline, a good thing.

