
Megaprocessor – A micro-processor built large - diymaker
http://www.megaprocessor.com
======
kens
There's also the MOnSter 6502, an exact copy of the 6502 microprocessor built
with discrete transistors on a 12"x15" board. It's operational and Apple
Integer Basic runs successfully on it, slightly slower than the real chip.
It's quite impressive, since unlike the real processor, the MOnSter 6502 has a
bunch of LEDs indicating the internal state.

See [http://monster6502.com/](http://monster6502.com/)

~~~
AceJohnny2
The best part about the MOnSter 6502 is you can control the frequency through
a potentiometer :)

A really excellent way to switch between actually seeing the individual
instructions being decoded and executed and getting something fast enough to
be (barely) usable!

~~~
userbinator
What's really attractive to me is that it's also an existing, "real"
architecture instead of a custom one-off (which may have been designed
specifically to ease a particular implementation.) It would be fun to see a
discrete 8080, Z80, or even 8086, for much the same reason.

~~~
Animats
The first generation DEC PDP-8 minicomputer was a discrete-component machine
the size of a small refrigerator.[1] Probably the smallest pre-IC computer
manufactured.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8)

~~~
kens
The smallest pre-IC computer is probably an aerospace computer. These
computers are very interesting, but almost totally neglected. For instance, in
1960 Atlas ICBMs (nuclear missiles) were guided by a computer that was a two
foot cube and weighed 240 pounds. Side note: PROM memories were invented for
this computer, so missiles could be aimed at different targets in the field.

In 1962, Arma created the first microcomputer, or at least the first computer
with that name. The Arma Micro Computer was a general-purpose aerospace
computer built from transistors and transfluxors (two-hole core memory with a
cool name). The computer was a tiny 0.4 cubic feet and 20 pounds. It was a
22-bit machine; while we now think word sizes must be a power of 2, back then
people used whatever word size gave them the accuracy they needed.

~~~
Animats
The original Atlas guidance computer was ground-based.[1] It was the first
transistorized computer, but it was a sizable mainframe and not on the
missile. Guidance was by radio control.

The ARMA Micro D is really obscure. It shows up in some lists of early
computers. Apparently it was inside some versions of the LTN-51 inertial
navigation system.[2][3] But this seems to have been around 1969-1970. The
Concorde used that navigation system.

[1]
[http://afspacemuseum.org/displays/BurroughsComputer/Burrough...](http://afspacemuseum.org/displays/BurroughsComputer/Burroughs_Historical_Summary.pdf)
[2]
[https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1970/1970%20-%...](https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1970/1970%20-%200479.PDF)
[3]
[http://www.seaboardairlines.org/aircraft/ins-2.htm](http://www.seaboardairlines.org/aircraft/ins-2.htm)

------
adrianratnapala
Those LEDs! Those brightly lighty LEDs!

Never mind the gates. _Relaxen und watschen der blinkenlichten._

Indeed the LEDs are the most important part since this project seems to be all
about exposition. For example:

> So how big is it ? Well an 8-bit adder is about a foot long (I use five of
> these)

If he were optimising for size rather than clarity, it would be much smaller.
Instead he has nice diagramtic outlines for the gates, and generous spaces
between them. And those LEDs! Those brighty lighty LEDs.

~~~
yitchelle
When I got started in electronics, I imagine exactly a little LED lighting up
when a bit is flip in a memory chip. The on in the post is a great
illustration! well done!

~~~
roywiggins
Dekatrons work like this :) The actual logical state of the thing is stored
using a glowing plasma.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8CnG7ee-A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8CnG7ee-A)

------
ChuckMcM
I've followed this project and really enjoyed it. I've built small versions of
various circuits, a core memory bit, a 4 bit adder, etc, but never even
considered something of this scale as practical. I really hope the London
Science Museum buys it and puts it along the wall next to the Difference
Engine[1] (sigh, they closed their exhibit). This definitely belongs somewhere
that the public could experience it though!

[1] ARGH! They closed the exhibit --
[http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/plan_your_visit/...](http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/plan_your_visit/exhibitions/computing)

~~~
jve
Yes, they closed it, because that was the deal:
[http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/information-t...](http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/information-
technology/babbages-difference-engine-heads-for-california-2008-04/)

and
[http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/modernsequel/](http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/modernsequel/)

"The complete working Babbage engine is on public display at the Science
Museum in London. A duplicate engine and printer, a 'second original', the
Babbage Difference Engine No.2 was completed for a private benefactor of the
project, Nathan Myhrvold, formerly chief technology officer and Group VP at
Microsoft. The Babbage Difference Engine No 2. was on displayed and
demonstrated from May 2008 to January 2016."

~~~
ChuckMcM
Here's the thing, as I understood it the Science Museum in London got to keep
theirs, the second one, would go through the Computer History Museum for a
year, and then on to Nathan.

Except if you read my link, _the London Science Museum_ has taken theirs
(which is not Nathan's) off display. That was what I was saying "Argh!" about.

~~~
makomk
Apparently the Computing gallery is closed so it can be replaced with a new
Mathematics gallery. Hopefully that will manage to incorporate the Difference
Engine somewhere.

~~~
adam-a
I went recently and it was still on display, although it was not in the
computing exhibit as before, but sort of on it's own.

------
craftkiller
Reminds me of this DIY 4 bit processor:
[https://hackaday.io/project/665-4-bit-computer-built-from-
di...](https://hackaday.io/project/665-4-bit-computer-built-from-discrete-
transistors)

The paranoid in me wonders if in the future we'll have to resort to projects
like this for sensitive tasks to know our hardware hasn't been backdoored...

~~~
TeMPOraL
Through-hole components won't save you.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTvDjhImwo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTvDjhImwo)

(explanation:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzDTZuFJYX4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzDTZuFJYX4))

~~~
Calcite
There's some serious head scratching going on when you watch the video. If you
can, wait a day before watching the explanation. I'm not even sure what's
going on after watching that!

------
redblacktree
The project is fantastic, and I'd love to see it in person. However, that
might be the worst game of Tetris ever memorialized in a YouTube video. I
guess he was too busy building this awesome machine.

------
diydsp
The amazing thing about this is that you can't critique. I mean, you can _say_
anything you want, but you can't stop it or change this guy's mind. :)

It's pretty neat seeing him change the clock speed:
[https://youtu.be/z71h9XZbAWY?t=3m38s](https://youtu.be/z71h9XZbAWY?t=3m38s)

------
zw123456
We see these types of postings here from time to time and it always brings to
mind the famous quote from Edmund Hillary when asked why he climbed Mt.
Everest. If one wants to go to 39,000 feet you can get on a commercial
airliner and do so or pretty close. Similarly, I could buy a microprocessor
board (e.g. RPI for $25 or so) but this guy climbed the Mt. Everest of
computer, "because he wanted to".

~~~
tromp
It was George Mallory who is famously quoted as having replied to the question
"Why did you want to climb Mount Everest?" with the retort "Because it's
there".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mallory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mallory)

------
ohazi
I guess it's a lot quieter than using relays...

[http://www.nablaman.com/relay/](http://www.nablaman.com/relay/)

~~~
elihu
I attended a talk by the guy who built this thing:
[http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/](http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/)

He included a live demo. It made a very satisfying "kachunk-kachunk-kachunk"
sound as it multiplied two numbers. It also made me realize that the threshold
of complexity necessary to construct a practical turing-complee computing
device is quite low.

~~~
i336_
Indeed, it doubled as a beatbox machine, with 99% perfect rhythm!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3wPBcmSb2U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3wPBcmSb2U)

(Unfortunately the small demo isn't doesn't run to completion, perhaps because
the source material didn't include it, or because uploading it all would have
been nontrivial)

------
Practicality
Doesn't the mega and micro cancel and we just have a processor?

:)

[Edit Addition: This isn't just a math joke, his mega-processor is exactly the
size a processor was before micro-technology made them a million times
smaller... so making something at 1/million scale scaled up million/1 makes it
the same size as the original.]

------
jimmytidey
I'm watching the video thinking, wow, this guy has an amazing shed. Then at
the end you realise it's in his living room.

------
Hydraulix989
Reminds me of the MOnSter 6502 project that did the same thing with a 6502
CPU.

It was actually shown at the Bay Area Maker's Fair:

MOnSter 6502 monster6502.com

------
gggggggg
Question: is there a market for servers twice the size they are. But a
fraction of the cost.

I for example have really consolidated servers in recent years. VMs are
fantastic. But the result is that I have lots of Data Center space spare.

I would love to buy servers of similar power consumption but larger foot
print, for less dollars than small ones. Assuming that a lot of limitations
and cost go into shrinking current systems.

Or are there other issues like distance between components that then come into
play?

~~~
userbinator
Due to how IC fabrication works, and the laws of physics, that is not really
possible. Larger ICs will definitely cost more simply because less fit on a
single wafer --- and defects will be more common, use more power because to
use the water analogy there is more 'inertia' to move around the circuits, and
also be slower as a result.

------
bikamonki
Reminds me of a machine I saw on Tokio's Miraikan: it demonstrates the
Internet (TCP/IP) with colored balls, rails, tubes and whatnot.

Wonderful post!

~~~
rspeer
I saw that! Except when I saw it, it was mostly broken, perhaps under the DDoS
of children putting too many bits into it too fast.

When I saw it, you could send a message from one designated terminal to
another, but that's just rolling balls on tracks. In the intended design you
could choose which terminal it went to using an 8-bit IP address.

------
dang
Lots of previous submissions, but the major thread (with lots of comments from
the author!—maybe he'll show up again) was
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9755742](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9755742).
Since that was over a year ago, we won't count this one as a dupe.

~~~
rabidrat
Also because it was finished since then.

------
iliketosleep
this would be fantastic learning tool. i could definitely imagine it being
used to great effect in a computer architecture course.

------
voycey
Does he mention the clock speed of this thing? Wonder what the size comparison
would be if it was built on say a 20nm scale?

~~~
voycey
Oh found it on the Reg article - 20khz (0.02Mips)

~~~
vardump
0.02 MIPS for real? I'd expect about 0.005 MIPS from a design like that.

Many early CPUs took multiple clock cycles per instruction, anywhere between 2
and 10+.

So all instructions are executed in a single clock cycle?

~~~
vardump
To add, here's a nice table of Meaningless Instructions Per Second for
different CPUs:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeli...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeline_of_instructions_per_second)

It's pretty representative of 8 bit CPU true performance.

------
bogomipz
What a madman! I mean this in a good way. This is really awesome. The link for
"Stepping Stones" and worth a watch. I hope he finishes and does 8 through 10
on the video todo list.

I hope this finds a permanent public home at some point. This would be great
addition to any technical museum or exhibition.

Kudos!

------
orblivion
Well, that's one way to make completely open hardware :-) I wonder if it can
run GPG.

------
quodestabsurdum
This reminds me of some other fascinating projects: The Clock[1] and The
Tower[2]. Several years ago I thought about building a dead-bug style
Christmas tree for a decoration competition. Projects like these continually
remind me that when we're not optimizing for space, you really can make
something functional _and_ beautiful.

[1]: [http://techno-logic-art.com/clock.htm](http://techno-logic-
art.com/clock.htm) [2]: [http://techno-logic-art.com/tower.htm](http://techno-
logic-art.com/tower.htm)

------
jhallenworld
I agree with him that the ~$25 Lattice Mach FPGA breakout boards are
outstanding (but these days MachXO3 versions are available). They have an on-
board FTDI FT2232 chip which provides JTAG programming of the FPGA, plus very
key, an extra UART. With just one cable you power the FPGA, configure it and
then talk to your design through the UART.

They are the FPGA version of ST's Nucleo boards (which have built in "ST-LINK"
for programming and debugging plus extra UART).

------
jamesdavid
Ha this is timely for me ... last night I laid out an ALU in eagle using 7400
logic and was going to document the build of a 7400-based programmable
processor.

~~~
userbinator
You may find this interesting:
[http://www.homebrewcpu.com/](http://www.homebrewcpu.com/)

------
agildehaus
It belongs in a museum!

Seriously, that's quite an amazing project.

------
avindroth
Now you can see what a computer is doing.

Fantastic for understanding!

------
matteuan
Fantastic. That's all what I have dreamed when I studied Computer
Architecture.

------
amelius
I'd like to see a story of somebody building their own IC fab in their garage.

~~~
gravypod
This channel might be of interest to you:
[https://youtu.be/-Qph8BNrnLY](https://youtu.be/-Qph8BNrnLY)

One of my favorite channels as she's done many projects I've had interest in.

------
0xTJ
I've really loved this project from the first time I saw mention of it. I've
always dreamed of doing something like this, but have never been able to get
the full technical abilities and resources to do it myself.

------
epx
Like a computer from a 1960s movie - computers as art meant them!

------
peter303
An extreme case is LEGO logic gates:

[https://www.randomwraith.com/logic.html](https://www.randomwraith.com/logic.html)

------
snissn
The last picture in the article implies to me that it's running windows, is
that the case, or did I misunderstand something?

~~~
dyladan
I would say that more likely that is just a separate computer running windows
for research/programming/design/cat videos/etc

------
DeadReckoning
Watching the guy play tetris made me cringe

------
mitnk
seems an implementation of the book - Code
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JDMPOK2/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JDMPOK2/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

------
elt0n
Hahaha this is so complicated xD

------
known
Interesting stuff

