
Airbnb is banning people trying to attend a white supremacist rally - janober
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/08/airbnb-ban-white-supremacist-rally
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legostormtroopr
As a non-American, I find it quite worrying that American companies
(specifically tech and SV ones) that operate globally are so eager to police
politics on their platforms.

While I don't agree with White power rallies (which should go without saying),
they have as much right to service as any other political group.

StackOverflow already took an "open-borders, anti-Trump, or get out
mentality", so its not a stretch to say that any right leaning belief, or more
acurately any non-extreme left belief will be under fire from more and more
companies.

That is troubling indeed.

~~~
Raynak
> While I don't agree with White power rallies (which should go without
> saying), they have as much right to service as any other political group.

So no right.

~~~
legostormtroopr
Except when we let bad actors use that exact same justification, then its ok
for a christian baker to not make a cake for a gay wedding.

~~~
mintplant
Gay isn't a political party or affiliation.

~~~
flukus
Gay marriage is a political position, they may not have been able to not serve
someone because they were gay, but following the same reasoning as Airbnb here
they should not have been compelled to make a gay wedding cake.

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RickS
Awesome. The idea that companies are apolitical can't die fast enough. No
person-to-person platform can reach scale and be apolitical.

You end up with companies like reddit and twitter who are too timid to make a
stand about what their rules really are, and then waffle until they're forced
to deal either with the PR nightmare of suddenly changing directions at scale,
or the PR nightmare of allowing shitbags nobody wants to deal with to run
rampant on the platform because they don't want to change directions at scale.

If you really want to support "anything goes" you have to be willing to be
2006 /b/. Turns out the legal, advertising, and financial implications of this
decision are painful (even for 4chan).

If you're not willing to be /b/, you've default accepted that free speech is
off the table. If that's the case, the best thing you can do is actually spend
thought and effort on your principles, and on enforcing them swiftly and
evenhandedly.

Speech is free on the internet, and it should be. Speech is not free on a
single company's website, and it shouldn't be.

Curation is a very important form of product design, and curation of users (or
lack thereof) is no exception.

~~~
flukus
> No person-to-person platform can reach scale and be apolitical.

Companies that are too political can't scale at all, they put to many people
off. Most overtly political business like feminist cafe's or LGBT bookshops
die pretty quickly. In the tech world, if I could go back half a decade and
know how political github would become I and many other people would have
never signed up.

> The idea that companies are apolitical can't die fast enough.

Why do you want to make life more complicated? When I go get my morning coffee
I don't want to know what the companies opinion on gay marriage is. When I go
watch a movie I don't want to know what the makers opinions are on progressive
taxation. When I buy a phone I don't want to know the manufacturers opinion on
global warming.

~~~
salvar
When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member. I'm
sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way. I'd say that Airbnb's services
are much more personal (in a person-to-person way) than coffee, movies or
phones.

~~~
flukus
> When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to know that my host isn't a KKK member.
> I'm sure most of Airbnb's customer's feel this way.

I've got some bad news then: you don't know that. Unless the host has
swastikas on their forehead or explicit tells people then neither Airbnb or
it's customers know that. Every single time you book there is a chance you'll
be staying in the home of a KKK member.

But as shown by recent hot topics, most people prefer to be blissfully
unaware.

~~~
salvar
> I've got some bad news then: you don't know that.

Thanks for the snark, it really helps the discussion. Let me rephrase to
include some nuance:

When I stay at an Airbnb I'd like to think that the company has some interest
in the host not being an openly card-carrying KKK member, and would take
reasonable action to remove those hosts from their services, as they seem to
have done in this instance. I realise that this does not mean there is no
chance that I'll be staying in the home of a KKK member, but thanks for the
tip.

------
nodesocket
The epidemic problem with bay area companies mixing their leftist politics and
business is very disconcerting. They are alienating the majority population of
the country, and are acting in the same manner as groups they claim to loathe.
It is pure hypocrisy.

Bay area companies enjoy diversity and inclusion, as long as it fits within
their narrative.

~~~
Frondo
Shouldn't this be a situation where the market decides, then?

AirBNB, developed in leftist SF: No white supremacists on our system.

AryanBNB, developed in northern Idaho: White supremacists welcome!

If people are really that turned off by AirBNB banning white supremacists,
they'd flock to AryanBNB, wouldn't they?

For my part, I just don't think this slope is that slippery. I'd happily
prohibit white supremacists from using any service I ever developed, or if I
ever opened a retail shop, I'd happily ask them to leave (reserving the right
to refuse service and all that).

But that's just me. Surely the white supremacists can develop short-term
rental apps to cater to everyone, can't they? (They wouldn't prohibit any
specific groups from using their services, I'm sure, ha ha.)

~~~
averagewall
That reason isn't consistent with popular ideology. If it was valid, you could
also make the same argument for AirBNB banning gays and say "well, gays can
make their own GayBNB if they want. Let the market decide!" No. That wouldn't
be fair for gays to be sidelined to the necessarily inferior minority service.
Most customers won't use the GayBNB as a political gesture. Just as most Uber
users didn't really switch to Lyft when they were angry at Uber because, well,
they kind of liked the cheap and available rides.

~~~
Daishiman
The difference is that we've agreed for the most part that sexual orientation
should be a protected class, and being a white supremacist should not be.

It's so blindingly obvious that I have no idea why you'd ever make that
argument.

Nobody cares about sidelining white supremacists.

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partisan
This could indicate the need for a company like Airbnb that proactively
markets to people who think this way. Markets abhor a vacuum.

If companies become political, then they should expect competitors who will
use politics as a market differentiator. They should also expect customers to
differentiate between their options based on politics as well.

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losteverything
Holiday Inn: "Yes, we have availability. How many nights?"

Airbnb: fuck off.

To me, this is a perfect example of why hotels and motels will ALWAYS matter.

~~~
Daishiman
Are you really so naive as to think that most hotel chains just turn a blind
eye to white supremacist groups? I bet you almost none of them would host a
KKK conference in their premises.

And I bet the net return for them would still be positive for that.

~~~
losteverything
I am naive for sure.

Would a hotel reservations agent google my name to find information? No.

Would an abb or home away person google me? Maybe - probably?

No reason individuals could book rooms independently in a hotel.

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averagewall
Banning people because of their beliefs and customs is the opposite of what
they tell their users to do their Nondiscrimination Policy:

 _... to engage with each other respectfully, even when views may not reflect
their beliefs or upbringings. Airbnb’s members bring to our community an
incredible diversity of background experiences, beliefs, and customs._

Words like that sound hostile and hateful to me nowadays. They're so often
used to ostracize people who are already widely hated.

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ringaroundthetx
Banning SOME of the people that were trying to attend the event.

What is actually going on here? The articles and comment go on like everyone
is getting banned for any association to an event, and debating hypotheticals.

Who is getting banned and for what actual reasons? Any hosts? Some guests?
Who, what, and the nuances of why are notoriously missing from this

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Daishiman
Not a problem.

~~~
retox
Do you use AirBnB? How about I claim there is a rally in any city you want to
stay, or complain to AB you are hosting ebil racists and get you blacklisted?

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bookmarkacc
Is it just a claim though? It seems quite factual

