
AnandTech: Microsoft Surface Review - barista
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review
======
ChuckMcM
This is the best review I've read so far. I agree with the reviewer in that
I've had the same sort of feeling that Microsoft doesn't really 'get' it, but
phrasing it as their 'perspective' on the market is exactly right. The first
time Microsoft tried to do a 'tablet' aka the 'tablet pc' too much 'pc' and
not enough 'tablet'. This seems to have moved in the spectrum closer to
'tablet' but the PC roots are still showing.

I want this to be successful because I would love something like it with a bit
'denser' screen and flexibility. I wonder if they tried a keyboard with a fold
out mouse like ginormous scroll area.

I really like the fit and finish though. That is some awesome tech right
there.

~~~
anigbrowl
If the x86 version has sufficient horsepower, they could present the iPad with
a serious high-end challenge, because there's a _lot_ of software I like on my
Windows box that I'd love to be able to use in a tablet environment (without
needing any more functionality than mouse emulation), not to mention a goodly
number of USB devices that interface with same. That would substantially
reduce my iPad envy.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I can imagine myself having a few windows open on one of these things doing
small bits of programming. On the go. That would be great!

~~~
pdaddyo
I presume you just won't get the battery performance out of x86 version
though? Surely it's going to struggle.

~~~
jfb
To say nothing of heat.

~~~
glhaynes
And thicker/heavier. Plus fan noise. And several hundred dollars more
expensive.

It'll be interesting to see if the Surface Pro feels more like an iPaddish-
tablet or more like a traditional PC-ish tablet. Unless it's _really_ good at
what it does, I think it can easily end up doing more harm than good to
Microsoft through Surface brand dilution, consumer confusion (x64 vs ARM,
which apps run where), etc.

------
hinting
AnandTech does a great job with in-depth technical dives, but for general
product reviews sites like the Verge seem to do a much better job.

[http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-
surface...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-
review)

 _The promise of the Surface was that it could deliver a best-in-class tablet
experience, but then transform into the PC you needed when heavier lifting was
required. Instead of putting down my tablet and picking up my laptop, I would
just snap on my keyboard and get my work done. But that's not what the Surface
offers, at least not in my experience. It does the job of a tablet and the job
of a laptop half as well as other devices on the market, and it often makes
that job harder, not easier. Instead of being a no-compromise device, it often
feels like a more-compromise one._

~~~
Mythbusters
I wonder why the author tried to treat this as a full desktop replacement
knowing that this is ARM based unit and hence does not run full windows 8. The
Surface Pro is the one that should fir the bill of a tablet that is a laptop
replacement. The author is expecting things from the unit that it is not quite
designed for.

~~~
tesseractive
It has an awful lot of affordances to make it look like it might be a laptop
replacement -- the keyboard covers, the desktop mode, Office. It's obviously
not suitable simply _as_ a laptop, nor is it a very credible straight-up
replacement for an iPad, at least at this point.

So if it was going to succeed at something, the most likely outcome would be
as a good-enough laptop replacement and a good-enough tablet replacement, even
though it would be a compromise as either. Instead, the reviewer came to the
conclusion that it was more of a "neither fish nor fowl" product. Having not
had a chance to use one myself, I nevertheless suspect that will be my
conclusion when I have a chance to try one out.

~~~
Mythbusters
I get that it was not a replacement for a desktop. That's a given. but I don't
get "not a replacement for iPad" part. I don't see why it is not a replacement
for iPad for doing most of what people do on iPad, browse, game, read, watch,
listen, etc. If you consider broad app ecosystem, nothing is going to be a
replacement for iPad except iPad. Agreed Windows8 doesn't have a whole lot of
apps at this point but its not even released yet.

~~~
tesseractive
Android doesn't have nearly as many tablet apps for full-size tablets as iPad
has, but it definitely has an app ecosystem. Windows RT is starting almost
completely from scratch -- like previous marketplace failures like the
Playbook and the TouchPad.

If Metro apps take off, then in 6 months to a year, Surface could be a
completely viable iPad replacement. But right now, you would have to have a
pretty limited set of needs to be satisfied with a Surface.

Worse, I've read more than one review claiming that the software is still
glitchy. While understandable in a 1.0 product, that's a huge disadvantage
when compared to the famous stability of an iPad.

So while I'm sure there will be some interest just because it's a cool-looking
product, I don't think more than a small minority of users will find it a
realistic substitute for an iPad.

------
jtchang
I am genuinely excited for Microsoft. The surface is rather refreshing. I
generally am not a big tablet user. I find them kind of clunky for getting any
real work done. But I do think there probably is a tablet out there for me...I
just have to be willing to accept some tradeoffs.

~~~
Mythbusters
Checkout the surface Pro or many other similar products that came out recently
(a windows 8 tablet that docks into a keyboard) The only tradeoff there is the
smallish screen size and possibly price but those are to be expected I think.

~~~
coob
That and the fact it has a fan.

------
blinkingled
From the wired review :

    
    
        Half the apps pre-installed on the Surface RT launches in the classic desktop interface, most notably Microsoft Office, where the smaller user elements do not play nicely with the touch interface.
    

From AnandTech's review just typing into Office takes 50% CPU.

I had totally expected Microsoft will get Office right - touch friendly, not
relying on classic Desktop and relatively bloat free. If integrated well with
the tablet interface it would become a better productivity machine for
Enterprise users than competition's offerings.

With what is being said of Office RT, I don't see what the selling point of
Surface is - It is Windows but can't run Windows apps, it is a tablet but
needs to switch to classic to run a so-so version of touch-unfriendly Office
(Do I get Outlook with it?).

May be it will be a better story with Surface Pro.

~~~
meaty
According to a friend at MSFT, these issues are all sorted on office 2013 RTM
which only went gold yesterday.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
And is that the version we'll be seeing on the Surface?

~~~
ygra
Surface currently has a preview version of Office on it with the promise from
MS that it will get an upgrade to the RTM version. The Office team probably
just wasn't ready in time for product launch.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Ah. Good to hear :)

------
saturdaysaint
Anand is always interesting, but this is one review that probably merited a
lot more discussion of software and value, so I find the consumer site reviews
more informative. With the first iteration of a product, the big question in
my mind is "will this catch on and will there be a second gen?" and to me the
much lauded build quality is just one element of that. Remember, the Zune had
great software and hardware.

Full Office is indeed a killer app, but $600 (with the necessary cover) is
steep when their competition is racing to $200. I'm also interested to see how
the size plays in the market. As the first high quality 7" tablets have their
first Christmas season, I think the dynamics of the market could shift.
Something that fits in a purse is going to be a huge draw for women; something
that costs around $300 will put it in kids' price range. Surface might be
great on it's own merits, but tech savvy dudes and Excel lovers can't sustain
an app ecosystem.

~~~
rlu
What do you think it's competing against? Certainly not a Kindle...

Is the $600 price a steep one? I'm not sure. It's the same price as the iPad
and not only can you consume/play with it, but you can also do work. This has
the potential of replacing your iPad+laptop combo.

On the other hand, for $600 you could also buy a mediocre laptop that can run
full Windows 7/8. But likely without a touch screen (but win8 works fine
without one anyways so whatever).

At the end of the day, if your budget is $600 it really comes down to "do you
care about tablet use cases". If you do, then buy a win8 device like Surface
over an iPad. If you don't then skip this form factor and get yourself a
"normal" non-touch laptop with full Windows and likely better hardware.

I guess my original meta point was that if _this_ isn't worth $600, then the
iPad shouldn't even be worth $500.

Re: "but with an iPad you have 250k apps" - sure, but I'm confident that the
apps _will_ come to win8. It's a matter of time, and I don't think it will
take too long. I expect lot more AAA apps to be released after October 26th.

~~~
mc32
I wonder if the paradox of choice[1] is relevant to an app store. Perhaps not.
Still, I think more important than number is quality. If they can get some
quality (and premier) apps in the store, that will go a long way to quash any
fears of app dearth.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less)

------
zanny
My transformer infinity has a better screen (the review even has an entire
page that actually reinforced my happiness in getting my tf700) and it has an
unlocked bootloader, so if I wanted a productivity notebook (with the dock...
which the infinity also has... and it has a micro hdmi port rather than some
proprietary thing, but the power dongle is proprietary so its a wash) I could
just put an arm compiled Linux distro on it. It actually isn't even bad for
typing with the dock in stock android, since home -> icon clicks and alt-tab
works like on a desktop OS it works fine for me.

~~~
bergie
I had the Transformer Prime, and used it for some light hacking and conference
liveblogging. The main thing keeping me from using it for "real work" was that
the keyboard really wasn't too good.

I've understood the Infinity has the same keydock as the Prime. But maybe the
keys are better now? How is your typing experience?

~~~
zanny
Its better than pretty much every 10" netbook keyboard I ever used. If you
don't like it you can still use a bluetooth keyboard with it.

------
notatoad
From the review: "this isn't an iPad competitor"

And yet, Microsoft lifts the embargo on reviews about 6hrs after the release
of the new ipad. Fun timing.

~~~
solnyshok
yep, also noticed this. now reviews are on engadget, techcrunch, anandtech and
everywhere else. guess they try to dilute ipad mini pr

~~~
microtherion
I could be mistaken, but my impression was that the surface launch date was
set first, review embargoes were timed to that, and, if anything, Apple timed
the iPad mini event to step on the Surface launch rather than vice versa.

------
mikeevans
I can't wait to try one myself. I only wish it was cheaper, mostly because I'm
not sure how much value I would get out of it. (I own a laptop and a Nexus 7)

~~~
steverb
I'm in the same boat. I'm personally holding out for the Surface Pro, but the
RT is very tempting.

------
tomkinstinch
I don't really follow Microsoft news. The last time I heard about a Microsoft
Surface product it was the size of a kitchen table.

I wonder why they used the same name for this product.

~~~
untog
Because it's a great name. The previous Surface was never a consumer product
(and still lives on with a name I forget) so there's no huge problem outside
of tech circles.

~~~
duck
It is now called PixelSense (which is _not_ a great name):
<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx>

~~~
untog
Eh, it's a corporate product. Corporate products tend to have stupid
MultipleCapitals names, for reasons I do not understand.

------
dsr12
Link to read the review in a single page:
<http://www.anandtech.com/print/6385>

------
purplelobster
I won't be buying an Surface RT, for the same reason I won't be buying an
iPad: it's just too limited, and I don't want two devices that do similar
things. I'm extremely interested in the Surface Pro though. If I can dock my
Surface Pro to my keyboard, mouse, big screen and speakers, it could replace
my current laptop, while being much easier to bring with me.

In the end, it will probably be between an Ultrabook like the Lenovo X1
Carbon, or the Surface Pro, with the Surface having a slight upper hand
because I can use it as a tablet as well.

------
gjm11
Am I the only person who gets really annoyed with vendors' desire to treat
their products' names like personal names with no articles in front?
Microsoft: "you can see more, do more and share more with Surface." Apple:
"The Retina display on iPad makes everything look crisp and lifelike."

It's weird and unnatural, and -- here I may just be being eccentric -- it
gives me the feeling that the companies are trying to manipulate me, hoping
that if I keep seeing "Surface" instead of "the Surface" and "iPad" instead of
"an iPad" some bit of my brain will start treating those product names like
personal names and feel warm and fuzzy and friendly towards the products.

It's weird the way that Anand goes along with this in his article when he's
talking about the Microsoft device ("After living with Surface however, I
understand the appeal") but not when he happens to mention the Apple one ("I
wouldn’t say that it looks better or worse than the iPad, it’s simply
different"). So much so that I almost wonder whether Microsoft made it a
condition of providing a review device that the review had to avoid ever
saying "the Surface" or "a Surface".

As a measure of how unnatural the locution Microsoft's marketing people are
trying to push on us is, notice that almost everyone here on HN, commenting on
Anand's review that consistently uses MS's preferred form, none the less says
"a Surface" or "the Surface" when referring to a particular instance rather
than to the brand. [EDITED to add: I am not suggesting that he's showing some
kind of deliberate favouritism or that MS asked him not to do the article-
dropping thing when referring to competitors' products. I think he says "the
iPad" instead of just "iPad" because by now everyone's stopped indulging
Apple's marketing department's whims.]

~~~
mgkimsal
context aside, the phrase "the surface" may be meaning a generic surface or a
Surface. When I read to myself without the "the", the reading voice reinforces
that it's the "MS Surface" product that's being referred to. That's the
pro/con of using generic words for products (vs ipad, for example).

When reading, and you see the capital, it's easier to determine what is being
referred to, but I often hear it being read in a voice as well, and the lack
of articles 'helps' in some way.

~~~
nodata
Even if the product names have an article, you can still read them
differently.

~~~
mgkimsal
they _can_ be read differently, but what is the default for most people? I
honestly don't know, but have an idea that MS/Apple/Google others have people
who study this sort of stuff and do it for a particular reason. I may be way
off there though.

------
eric-hu
>> The chassis is built out of an injection molded Magnesium...

Would someone more qualified than I comment on this? I seem to remember from
high school that magnesium is highly flammable. Its autoignition temperature
is fairly high at 473C/883F, but I could see a li-ion battery malfunction
leading to a pretty nasty fire hazard.

Is there some special process that can be applied to magnesium to ensure that
this product doesn't turn into a flare?

~~~
kanwisher
I'm just going to leave this here...

Burning a NeXT Cube (Magnesium) <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvQ-BJD2rU>

~~~
xentronium
He used thermite to burn it, so I guess it's not trivial.

------
kuviaq
"The biggest issue I have with recommending Surface is that you know the next
iteration of the device is likely going to be appreciably better, with
faster/more efficient hardware and perhaps even a better chassis. "

Why call this out when it is true for every single piece of consumer hardware
these days?

~~~
nacs
He's basically stating that the Surface has "version 1.0" issues (in hardware
and software) that he hopes will go away with the "1.1"/"2.0" release of
Surface..

~~~
Jare
iPad 3 owners can confirm that hardware obsolescence is not purely a matter of
"1.0" issues.

~~~
potatolicious
Yes, but your iPad 3 is still a perfectly good device with few thorny,
glaring, obvious omissions.

I think that's the point the statement is trying to make: that even just
looking at the device there are enough things that are glaring omissions and
misses that you will feel shortchanged when they're inevitably fixed in v2.

I feel the same way about the iPad mini. The lack of a retina display in this
day and age feels like a very obvious miss, and you _know_ they will fix this
next year, which makes buying it now seem like a poor proposition.

~~~
Jare
In my opinion, the lack of hardware to match at Retina resolution the
rendering capabilities of the iPad 2 was a pretty HUGE miss on the iPad 3. I
can't see anything so obviously missing from the Surface.

~~~
ygra
Read the article, it covers that point. If MS would have wanted to compete on
that front it would have either needed to sacrifice graphics performance, or
go Apple's route and design a custom SoC. One isn't acceptable and the other
probably not feasible given the resources they wanted to invest.

------
mtgx
So their (real) excuse for using a lower resolution is that they didn't use a
more powerful chip? Ok, but the problem remains that they're using a chip that
can go in $200 tablets as well, a lower resolution display, and also a much
smaller battery than the iPad, and yet it still costs $500.

The extra storage is irrelevant, since they need that for cover for the
greater size of Windows and Office, and they shouldn't make the user pay for
it. Also how do they explain the fact that Google will use a much more
powerful chip (Exynos 5 Dual) and a much higher resolution (2560x1600) in
their upcoming Nexus 10 tablet, and yet will still cost $500 or less? Not to
mention this entire review is not made for the $500 device, but for the $600
device, with they keyboard.

It seems Microsoft's fans promote TheVerge's reviews only when it suits them.
I think TheVerge's Surface review is a lot more objective:

[http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-
surface...](http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540550/microsoft-surface-
review)

~~~
avolcano
I don't think it's entirely Microsoft fanboys that are trying to champion the
Surface.

A lot of people still think an iPad can't be used for content creation (not
true at all; the thing has supported a Bluetooth keyboard since day one,
there's tons of music being made with the thing, there's tons of apps for
content creation at this point...) or productivity purposes (a somewhat fair
point, but unless Surface somehow takes off, I can guarantee there will be
Office for iPad someday). Ask anyone how they can justify spending the same
amount of money as an iPad on a tablet that's smaller, with a far worse
screen, with almost no ecosystem to speak of, unproven software, and with no
accessory ecosystem, and they'll probably tell you "because this one will let
me be more productive!"

I dunno. I try not to get too negative about products. I've come around on a
lot of Android tablets; the Nexus 7 is a genuinely impressive device for $200.
But the Surface seems not only woefully underpowered, but with Windows 8, has
proven to manage to be cross-contaminating, harming the desktop OS that
Microsoft had so finely perfected with Windows 7.

~~~
polshaw
I don't think surface is perfect, nor does it match the iPad in every area,
but a proper kickstand + keyboard/touchpad + office puts it in a completely
different league to the iPad in terms of productivity. If you want to work
when mobile, this is right up there. It is overpriced, but so is the iPad.

As for 'cross contaminating', the convergence of tablet and laptop OSes is
inevitable. IMO microsoft would be foolish to ignore it. Their moves toward
convergence are also far better than Apples iOS influenced changes to OSX,
despite being far more bold.

------
andrewljohnson
* EDIT: Didn't see the article had more pages. Please disregard my silly comment. I feel a bit dumb, but the control to go to the next page is non-standard and confusing if you ask me: [https://www.dropbox.com/s/5owebbhai6oxazt/Screen%20Shot%2020...](https://www.dropbox.com/s/5owebbhai6oxazt/Screen%20Shot%202012-10-23%20at%207.46.19%20PM.png)

This review doesn't say a thing about the device. He doesn't say anything
negative, he doesn't say anything positive. He just says it's worth
considering, and heavily quotes a random Microsoft exec. He says he "gets it"
but doesn't say what that means.

I have no idea what the point of the article is, or what information it's
supposed to convey. He could have simply said "Microsoft has a tablet."

I'd say it was a PR piece if it didn't sound so darn blase on the whole thing,
but I guess that echoes the exec he quoted. Is Microsoft's communications
strategy simply to convince people not to talk about the features or functions
of the Surface?

~~~
mamp
I agree, this is unusual for Anandtech. It seems you could summarise the 12
page review as 'meh'. Maybe they didn't have enough time with it to get into
any more detailed analysis.

Also, I get the impression that Microsoft has been set a lower bar -- almost
encouraged for just having a go in this space rather than comparing it to
existing products. E.g. how does the Type Cover compare to the range of 3rd
party products available for the iPad for < $129? How much better is the Touch
Cover to onscreen when taking into account predictive text & auto correct? Not
much to go on in this review. Maybe MS haven't given a lot of time for people
to spend with the product.

~~~
rossjudson
Any separate typing surface is superior to a touch screen surface. Touch
screen keypads cover massive parts of the screen, force constant hand shifts,
and constantly reposition content on the screen. Auto-correct and predictive
corrections try to cover for problems that shouldn't exist.

I fail to see how the review can be characterized as "meh". It comes off as
guardedly impressed to me, and definitely looking forward to the next revision
of the hardware.

Hmm. Just saw a Surface commercial on TV while I was writing this. Looks like
the war is a "go". Beneficiaries: Everyone.

~~~
contextfree
Besides, auto-correct and predictive text can work with physical keyboards
too.

~~~
ygra
They're just not that needed there. Or maybe that needs getting used to and it
must never get in the way of normal typing.

Although, now that I think of it, Word has auto-corrected common typos for
ages now and in more recent versions it never caught something it shouldn't
have (unlike Word 97).

------
RandallBrown
The surface is a piece of the ecosystem. The integration between Surface,
Windows Phone 8, and (what I think is most important) Xbox should be
phenomenal.

I'm a pretty big Apple fanboy. I have the newest iPhone, iPad and Macbook Pro
(until yesterday anyway). The one place Apple hasn't taken over is in my
living room. My Xbox still rules there and I don't see Apple overtaking that.

If Microsoft can integrate their other products with the excellent living room
experience provided by Xbox, I think they can really be successful.

------
Ingaz
I do not understand this device.

As tablet it has big weight. As ultrabook - small screen and worse input. (And
I don't like keyboard layout shown in pictures)

It's not contender for IPad/Android, it's not contender for ultrabooks.

Maybe if I had it in my hands - I had another opinion. Now I just don't
understand this middle "Microsoft way"

------
fidz
I am excited with Desktop Tile is also available in Windows RT. I thought it
was only available in Windows Pro.

So it means i can recompile my apps and run it on Windows RT?

~~~
ygra
No, you cannot. The traditional desktop is reserved for the included
applications, i.e. everything standard Windows and Office. It is not available
to 3rd-party developers on Windows RT.

------
lambda
This is not a very favorable review. While it seems to be trying to spin in a
positive direction, the fact that the first several paragraphs are about how
Microsoft wanted to control the message, and not about how great a product
this is, are not encouraging.

Then there's a lot of hemming an hawing over how there's no perfect solution,
and it doesn't run Windows applications. This was not enough to convince me to
read the rest of the review.

~~~
joshma
How can you attempt to summarize a review as "not very favorable" when you
haven't been "convinced" to read the rest of it? At least read the closing
paragraph if you're not going to bother spending more time: "If you're ok
being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are
still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your
consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could really bridge the content
consumption and productivity device, Surface is it."

If anything, this review seemed to lean positive. I wouldn't say it was
gushing with love, but it's certainly left me with a solid impression of the
hardware and a sense that the Surface won't be a complete flop.

The mix of damning judgement and deliberate ignorance here is amusing.

