
BitCoins - a real, alternative currency with a market? - CoffeeDregs
http://bitcoincharts.com/
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thinkcomp
So...what can I buy with BitCoins?

Also, from the link, "Donations are accepted at
1Nqr3MqVyUp6k3o3QPePAdn4Yg4tzgB9kw." Somehow I think that's going to present
an obstacle for most people.

Is this something that is really targeted at the general public, or at
programmers who are bored of dollars?

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socksy
Anonymity allows for online markets that were previously a lot harder to
achieve: <https://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.tor2web.org/>

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CoffeeDregs
ohmiword... That is very interesting...

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CoffeeDregs
Not sure how I missed BitCoins, but I'm trying to get a read on whether this
is a real currency or not. As in: something to watch or something to ignore.

I also don't understand why the # of coins is limited to 21M. Given that there
are going to be 10B people on the planet that means that, on average, a person
will have about 0.002 coins. Maybe I'm just too used to having thousands of
units of currency, but it seems odd to consider that prices will be in milli-
or nano-BitCoins...

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mrsteveman1
There is a finite amount of gold on the planet as well, and in all of human
history we've only mined something like $7-8 trillion dollars worth.

That's only half the GDP of the entire U.S. for 2009, and we don't even
control most of it (something like 12-15% in various reserves).

Look at the price of gold now, it's over $1,000 an ounce. Either the USD has
inflated dramatically since 1970 when an ounce of gold was only worth $40, or
gold has skyrocketed because of scarcity (or both).

Point being, bitcoins could very well end up being worth $10 or even $100 each
as the years go by, or higher. At a factor of 100 that's $2.1 billion USD
worth of bitcoins.

Are they worth that much? Maybe, gold and USD aren't worth anything at all
until someone is willing to accept them in trade, and people are definitely
accepting bitcoins in trade right now.

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CoffeeDregs
Fair points.

I guess I would be paying 0.001 ounce of gold for a candy bar, so why be
concerned about paying 0.001 bitcoin.

w.r.t. worth: gold is backed by being shiny, pretty, desirable; USD is backed
by the US Government (cue cries of "fiat money! fiat money!") which provides
huge implicit inertia; Bitcoins would be backed only by inertia. I guess the
answer to my question is: Bitcoins will be interesting if they get transaction
inertia. Of course, as an entrepreneurial minded fellow, the next question
would be: would it make sense to help build that inertia?

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seabee
From the Bitcoin FAQ:

How divisible are Bitcoins?

Technically, a Bitcoin can be divided down to 8 decimals, so 0.00000001 BTC is
the smallest possible amount. For convenience, the program currently accepts
only 2 decimal places.

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wewyor
Where do I start selling pickaxes?

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CoffeeDregs
By which you mean: this bitcoin thingy is analogous to the gold rush in which
the miners make no money. Is this an educated assessment or a quick bit of
sarcasm? Happy either way, just trying to understand whether Bitcoins are
worth paying attention to...

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Pavitra
Gold's a pretty good analogy. We're not quite to the point where it's
impossible to make money mining, but you have to plan carefully to break even.

The real usefulness, though, of bitcoins/gold isn't to make money mining, but
rather as a secure medium of exchange. Bitcoins are a bullion currency that
you can spend online.

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fourstar
If you have no idea what in the hell BitCoin is, check out
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs> (skip to around 42 minutes).
Really explains it well.

~~~
revicon
Using the #t hash anchor works well for this kind of thing...

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQPSwA2Itbs#t=2516s>

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il
Note that it is illegal in the US to use an alternate currency. The second
this becomes popular, the feds will raid it and shut it down.

See Liberty Dollar, e-gold, etc.

Casino chips are specifically exempted from this rule, but only inside a
casino.

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gavinandresen
Liberty Dollar was busted for counterfeiting, because their coins looked too
much like legal tender.

e-gold was busted for violating Know Your Customer money laundering
regulations.

Alternative currencies can be legal-- see, for example, Disney Bucks (paper
currency issued by Disney) or Ithaca Hours (oldest local currency in the US,
going since 1991).

~~~
mrsteveman1
Interesting point, I wonder who in the bitcoin ecosystem would be subject to
KYC regs, maybe exchanges?

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markkat
BitCoins for cash seems a bit suspect. :) Cash? No checks? No registered mail?

~~~
Pavitra
You can ask around in the #bitcoin-otc channel on Freenode to get an idea of
who's considered reputable. I understand Bitcoin4Cash is generally well-
regarded.

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mshron
Friendly (non-technical) introduction to bitcoins:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo&feature=player_embedded)

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exit
from <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Generating_bitcoins>

"All generating nodes of the network are competing to be the first to find a
solution to a cryptographic problem about their candidate-block, a problem
that requires repetitious trial and error."

i wonder whether this "cryptographic problem" is vulnerable to quantum
computing, in the same way asymmetric schemes like rsa are.

~~~
rfugger
The cryptographic problem is finding a nonce that, when concatenated with
current transactions, gives a SHA256 hash below a certain value. Not sure
about quantum vulnerabilities.

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clistctrl
I had the idea of suggesting to Reddit a while ago that they should start
their own currency (i would name it the Karmarian)

Reddit is a very large closely nit community, that is world wide. If the
internet has a chance of forming its own open form digital currency, its going
to need the backing of a large community such as Reddit or 4chan.

Personally I'd really wish something would take off. It pisses me off that the
only way to do business online is via another private business. It would be
awesome if our government created digital cash for online transactions, and it
would be even better if a non government entity created a world currency to
handle digital transactions.

