
Homeless Experiment - organicgrant
http://www.nevblog.com/homeless-experiment/
======
jessor
Unfortunately, no one can be told what homelessness is. You have to feel it
for yourself.

It's like putting on heavy weights and thick glasses because you want to know
how it is to be old.

The worst part is the psychological one, imho. He can go home. All bills paid,
cosy warm room, roof over his head. But to know that you "failed in life",
can't provide for yourself like so many others, have nowhere to go... I
_guess_ that's the real homelessness.

I recently experienced not getting paid for several months. It's quite
interesting what this does to your head.

~~~
dfh
"But still you'll never get it right, cos when you're laid in bed at night,
watching roaches climb the wall, if you call your Dad he could stop it all."

However, I guess it's not either or but a spectrum - although never completely
homeless, I'm sure he felt more homeless than usual.

~~~
buro9
> more homeless than usual.

This is what going on vacation is, or camping out.

Pulp got it spot on, a very fine choice of lyric there... it hit the mark and
hit it hard.

I've been homeless. It's an integral part of my identity that during my youth
my life led me onto the streets for almost 2 years (inc 2 winters).

When I put myself on the street I had options. It was an escape route from a
family environment I wish on no-one. But I had options. I could've still
called people up, I could've still gone to another family member somewhere
else.

Over time though, the options narrow. You've already lost possessions, wealth,
means, but then you lose even the view that you could reach out to anyone.

There really is a trip-wire beyond which hopelessness exists.

If you think you're experiencing homelessness just by sleeping in a cheap
sleeping bag and not carrying your debit card, think again.

Get rid of the phone, burn your bridges, discard your possessions... dig a
hole so cavernous that getting out is to climb a mountain, and don't leave
yourself with an escape ladder or means to call for help.

Only when your options are so few and so tenuous that they barely exist, only
when you are so focused on your next meal and where you'll be warm and safe
that night, only then with nothing at all to help you will you feel what the
homeless feel.

And as for Pulp, Common People captured something that exists in that desolate
state. The fact that with everything gone, so too are the cares and caution.
It is possible to be happy on the street, it is possible for it to be
liberating to not have any options... in my view options were also
constraints, things that prevent you from doing something else. You don't get
the courage to attack new things if there's an easier option, without options
attacking the hard things is all that is left.

~~~
prewett
So if you lost the idea that you could reach out to someone, what got you out
of homelessness?

~~~
buro9
Tenacity and creating opportunities out of little and slowly growing self-
belief. The latter part is really important and isn't really something anyone
gives you.

I don't want to repeat myself so you can check the longer post I made on it
through the link here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1201098>

~~~
prewett
Great post. I appreciate your honesty in how the fear of ending up back there
dominates your thinking. I don't think there is such a thing as security; we
all could end up there, given the right situation, no matter how much money,
property, etc. we have. And not taking risks isn't so bad; if one is content
to not be I-don't-have-to-work wealthy, it reduces the amount of risks one
needs to take. And if it's any encouragement, you sound mighty resourceful, so
I think you'll thrive in any environment.

I did want to ask a followup about being homeless. You clearly did not want to
be homeless. In my (U.S.) city, there are a lot of options for people who
don't want to be homeless, and most of them are not out on the streets. The
ones who are, are mostly there because they are happy with the lifestyle and
have no desire to stop being homeless. At least, that's my understanding,
based on articles like this one and people I've talked to. Would you say this
is a correct view based on your experiences?

~~~
buro9
Of the people I met on the streets, only the very long-term homeless who did
not have major mental health problems preferred to stay homeless.

For those, they appreciated the simplicity of life and had acclimatised to it
and also understood that to get out of it is several mountains of effort (1 to
get off the street, 1 to get to the same standard as the average person in
poverty, and finally another to have a good life in a lower-income bracket).
Those people were able to consider all of this and actually would choose to
have a good life with nothing at all and just to be at peace with their
situation.

Those people are rare.

The short-term homeless (< 6 months - seasonal variation means that there are
vastly more of them in the summer) I felt made up a greater proportion of
those currently homeless certainly would not ever choose to stay on the
streets. They had real difficulty surviving. They're also a lot less visible,
the short-term homeless are very fearful and will hide away from everyone and
not interact with the long-term homeless and would mostly refuse services to
help them as they lived in a state of denial. These are the people most likely
to end up in the most horrific circumstances, they are the most vulnerable.

The other significant tribe is the one I disclaimed in the first paragraph...
those with mental health problems. You cannot underestimate the effect of
being alone all the time, living in some degree of fear and being hungry and
unkempt. It rots your sanity slowly, it leaves you unable to do what seem
externally to be simple things. You could not give these people homes, they
couldn't cope with them, but likewise they're not coping with being homeless
either and their hygiene reflects this.

So to the original question, are the homeless made up of mostly people who
have no desire to stop being homeless? No, not at all. It's certainly true of
some, but others simply do not have the ability to make those choices, nor the
courage to accept help or the mental wit to comprehend and then deal with it.
Whilst there are some that will never leave the streets through choice, there
are far more who will never leave the streets through lack of choice, and then
a large mass who will leave and for whom being homeless is the darkest part of
their life.

It's just really important to not judge the whole by those who have the
confidence to engage with others, that they are doing so probably means that
they are already an exception and not the norm. I clearly don't reflect the
vast majority as I never let go of the smallest sliver of hope, but most have
and cannot imagine tomorrow being different from today. They really need hope
given to them, and the support to help them help themselves.

As much as this does dominate part of my past, I actually don't think it's one
of the biggest social issues. I once met an ex-drug dealer on the street who
had been in jail and raped in there. He told me of the great respect he had
for real victims (of which he didn't include himself), and that he respected
those able to deal with childhood sexual abuse far more than anyone else he
ever encountered and found their ability to respect themselves to be
overwhelming.

Me, I find the homelessness in my past a source of motivation and some shame,
yet the people I have the greatest respect for aren't those who are in that
situation still or break free from it, but those a notch higher. I have the
greatest empathy for those not living on the streets but who instead are
confined to live in poverty. Poverty is a far more widespread problem that
deeply affects far more of society. Homelessness is such a small extreme, and
there are outs... but there are few outs to poverty for the vast majority. If
homelessness is the frying pan (small), then poverty is the bush/forest fire
(enormous) and it's effects on the people goes very deep and gets passed from
generation to generation.

------
KoZeN
Am I the only person deeply shocked by this guy’s significant level of
ignorance? The first 70 to 80% of his article could essentially be surmised as
‘Hey, homelessness is easy as long as you put some thought into it.’

There is a reason homelessness is a vicious cycle and he didn’t even come
close to discovering that. Fine, he met some truly decent, capable people
living on the streets but the vast majority are there purely because they are
stuck in said cycle. Be it alcohol, drugs, criminal convictions or a
combination of the aforementioned, most people on the streets are there for a
reason beyond their immediate control and not because they were simply the
victim of bad luck.

 _Most "real" homeless people who have temporarily fallen on hard times rarely
ask for money in any of these ways._

This summed it up for me. ‘real’ homeless people…that attitude actually hurts
my brain.

I’ll give the guy credit for giving it a go but he has seriously missed the
point.

SOURCE: 1st hand experience for just under a year of my life. Unquestionably
the hardest year of my life.

~~~
dgreensp
So "bad luck" would be a reason _within_ their immediate control?

It sounds like you and the blogger are both saying that most people asking for
money on the street need a lot more than money to change their situation. I
often think about this myself when I pass one; what if I gave them $100?
$1000? Would it get them off the street?

What's your take on this?

~~~
KoZeN
The fact is, money won't get the majority of people off the street. That being
said, when I give money to homeless people I don't give it with the hope that
they may take the first step towards assimilating with regular society, I give
it with the hope that it may pay for their next meal or even help towards
putting a roof over their head for the night.

I can personally guarantee you that if someone handed me £100k it would change
my life exponentially and allow me to turn things around because I have the
drive and determination to do so. If the same person handed me £1k it wouldn't
change my life but it would relieve a lot of pressure when it comes to bills
and so on.

Be it £100,000 or £1,000, either donation would be hugely appreciated and help
me enormously. For someone who has no money & doesn't know where their next
meal is coming from then I guarantee they will have the same attitude if you
took a couple of zero's off those amounts.

------
dododo
george orwell (who also wrote 1984) conducted a similar experiment in the late
1920s and wrote a book about it:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_Londo...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_Paris_and_London)

~~~
telemachos
If you want to get a sense of Orwell's writings about poverty, but you're not
sure you want a whole book, try his essay "The Spike." It's available in
_Shooting an Elephant and Other Essays_ , as well as in many other collections
or selections of his essays. You can also find it online:

[http://books.google.com/books?id=WREtVBBT9lEC&lpg=PA1...](http://books.google.com/books?id=WREtVBBT9lEC&lpg=PA1&dq=george%20orwell%20%22the%20spike%22&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=george%20orwell%20%22the%20spike%22&f=false)
(changed link to Google books; removed short link)

~~~
sp332
Don't use URL shorteners here.
[http://books.google.com/books?id=WREtVBBT9lEC&lpg=PA1...](http://books.google.com/books?id=WREtVBBT9lEC&lpg=PA1&dq=george%20orwell%20%22the%20spike%22&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=george%20orwell%20%22the%20spike%22&f=false)

~~~
telemachos
I'm curious: is that a personal preference or a convention of the site? I
don't think I've noticed it one way or the other.

~~~
sp332
Ah, sorry for being brusque. It's a convention here.
<http://searchyc.com/comments/use+URL+shorteners>

~~~
telemachos
No worries about the tone, which was fine. I just wanted to know. Thanks for
the link.

------
5teev
> So should you give money to bums on the street? > In short, my answer is:
> NO.

Ignoring the tacky epithet "bums on the street" I disagree with this
conclusion. Giving someone money demonstrates respect for them as a fellow
human being: "I trust you to use this as you see fit."

How would you feel if instead of getting paid for your work, you were told
where to live, what and how much to eat, and so on? And now you want a beer?
Sorry!

Nev wonders why Black Mike isn't more grateful for his gifts. Maybe instead of
deciding for him, "Here's what you can do, and here's the tools to do it," he
could give him the money and take him on a shopping spree, advising but not
dictating.

------
robryan
Interesting point about homelessness especially for people around this site,
if you can use your skills to make money online without relying on any single
source you are at a much lower risk of becoming homeless through a set of bad
circumstances than someone who can only really convert their skills to a
decent income through a more permanent employer.

------
cjoh
I up voted this article because it is a constant reminder of the difference
between acting and doing.

Also, i loved the part where he was "planning to be homeless" and mentioned
that in the case of an emergency, he carried instructions in his wallet to
take him to a private hospital, not a public one. Classy.

------
wallflower
The sad thing about homelessness is that some of them are mentally ill - which
is why there are homeless. My friend tells me about the regular homeless men
and woman who camp out near the Hospital ER where she works...hoping to be
admitted, but never being taken in for treatment.

------
organicgrant
Agree or disagree with the author's methods, I like anyone who pushes the
boundaries of their current existence.

Call it "Getting out of your comfort zone", "Thinking outside the box", or any
other bullshit buzzphrase - Pushing beyond previous experience is the only
thing that matters in life.

------
cjy
This reminds me of the book "Scratch Beginnings" except that the guy in the
book was gone for a year and had the goal of getting a stable job, car etc.
It's a good read.

------
peterwwillis
mainly i feel sorry for this guy because of how out of touch he is. he packs
more to be homeless than i pack to go camping and basically tries to emulate
whatever he finds to be a stereotypical homeless person. maybe he never worked
in food service and thus didn't know american dumpsters are goldmines of safe,
edible food?

more than anything, this seems like a feeble attempt at a rich person to do
something they consider "crazy" so they can have a cool story to tell their
friends over caviar. "oh wow, look how dirty i was! ha ha!" this guy needs to
get over himself.

there's lots of reasons why people become homeless
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Contributing_cause...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Contributing_causes_of_homelessness))
and most well-off people simply don't think about the kind of problems people
have to deal with just to survive. homelessness is a multi-faceted and complex
issue which encompasses millions of people in different situations. there is
no way to "see how they live", unless maybe you got some head trauma, a broken
leg, asthma and were dumped somewhere you didn't know with no support system
and no job skills (compounded perhaps by a self-medicating drug or alcohol
habit).

do you want to help the homeless? tell your congressmen to pass laws that help
them with their _real life_ problems they need to overcome
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Problems_faced_by_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Problems_faced_by_people_who_are_homeless))
before they can try to sustain themselves with a job and housing. donate to
organizations which provide food and shelter to many instead of handing out
money to individuals. give old clothes and supplies (like the backpack &
sleeping bag he tossed) to goodwill or a local shelter. mainly the way people
can help the homeless is by putting forth resources to help people learn how
to elevate themselves above simply surviving, which most people eventually
settle for compared to what seems like the immense difficulty of getting a
stable job.

~~~
yummyfajitas
According to the article, most of the homeless he encountered didn't have the
problems you describe. Black Mike, for instance, was fit enough to defeat Nev
in a slap-boxing match. The author also never called upon his support system
or job skills, so I'm not sure how they are relevant.

Also, according to his experience at various shelters, he seems to have a
backpack full of stuff comparable to other homeless people. Some of the items
(e.g., toothbrush) were given out free at the homeless shelter. According to
you, various organizations will give out other items "like the backpack &
sleeping bag he tossed".

The only item that seems out of place is the laptop/phone, but according to
the article: "There are two guys openly playing on their laptops here [a
shelter] and one guy with a portable DVD player watching a movie. Many people
have cell phones and MP3 players. "

Why do you feel his attempt is "feeble"?

~~~
peterwwillis
most of the homeless he encountered isn't most of the homeless. it's a small
subsection of homeless in two parts of his town. different parts of different
towns have different kinds of homeless. the wikipedia article i linked to
explains how a surge of homeless came about, many of them having mental or
medical issues. many times those coming back from war have both and end up
homeless. and sure, eating what little you can, living outside and a stay in
prison may give you better reflexes than a rich computer geek who blogs about
being homeless for a week.

i don't think many people anticipate being homeless and then go and buy
homeless gear. they aren't going to pack themselves a homeless kit. i imagine
one would acquire things as they wander, pick up other people's junk, get what
they can in handouts, etc. by just buying this stuff you're giving yourself an
advantage over the penniless. perhaps it was his interest in only doing this
for a week that prompted this "self-donation", i dunno. i refer to this same
point regarding phone/laptop/etc.

it's feeble because he didn't really appear homeless. he only did it for a
week. he just tried to get into places that were more comfortable vs living
like the people who were unfortunate enough not to win the lottery. in other
words, he was basically trying to game the system and see how good life could
be as a homeless person vs how life really is. he's intelligent, well
prepared, aware of his surroundings. he doesn't have any particular handicap
which could prevent him from eventually just finding stable work. he makes a
good point that there are good resources for people who fall on hard times
temporarily, but this doesn't account for the majority of homeless who stay
homeless for an extended time (or indefinitely). and i found it feeble because
he spent more time taking pictures of himself than getting to understand "the
freaks" or anyone else but black mike.

~~~
yummyfajitas
_i don't think many people anticipate being homeless and then go and buy
homeless gear._

Neither did he. The items he packed into the backpack he had since middle
school were a $5 sleeping bag he happened to have in the closet, a few
clothes, eyeglasses, a toothbrush, toilet paper and brown sign paper. (I'm
ignoring the laptop, phone, camera and notebook, which didn't seem to help him
much and were there mainly for documentation purposes).

If I were facing a surprise eviction in 10 minutes, I'd be able to pack far
more than that. And as you say, even if I didn't, such things would be
available from "help the homeless" organizations.

 _he just tried to get into places that were more comfortable vs living like
the people who were unfortunate enough not to win the lottery._

I missed the part of the story where winning a lottery was necessary to in the
park and under a bridge.

I will grant you that his experience is not statistically representative of
homelessness as a whole. It's also a poor simulation of mental illness (did he
claim to be simulating mental illness?).

But I don't see why you conclude he didn't reasonably experience
_homelessness_.

~~~
peterwwillis
he experienced homelessness. but through a crystal glass, behind a pompous
facade, with the armor of reserves of cash and helpful, resourceful friends.
based on the conclusions of his blog, i don't think he learned anything.

mainly i don't think you can compare one homeless situation to another and so
this kind of "see what its like" scenario is not useful.

------
samg_
This guy needs to watch Preston Sturges's "Sullivan's Travels."

------
chopsueyar
If you rub coffee grounds on your face, it will look like dirt.

There was an experiment like this in the City paper in DC, many years ago.

~~~
AngryParsley
That's good advice for when you can't find any dirt and there are a bunch of
coffee grounds lying around.

~~~
noonespecial
Quick, you're trapped in a Starbucks, you need to look homeless, _what do you
do_?.

