

Why "Killing Hollywood" isn't the answer - shoham

While* all of the recent talk about "Killing Hollywood" has sparked conversation throughout the hackasphere, the truth is the the record industry, the movie and tv industries are and have been the best employers of artists this side of the Medici clan.<p>To understand the problem, it is in my opinion crucial to understand what it is that artists do, and what the (few) industries that explicitly support artists mean to those whom they employ.<p>Unless and until the tech industry can do this, and help develop new ways for artists to empower themselves, the self-righteousness will backfire, the way it did for musicians who railed for generations against the powers that be and are now left with less employment opportunities in the industry than at any time in the last 100 years.<p>I'm a musician, and software developer myself, here is my attempt at solving the problem: http://www.feed-forward.net<p>I think that helping artists self organize is the future, to that extent I've developed an application that gives incentive for artists to engage each other in meaningful discourse over each others work.  The more constructive criticism and positive reinforcement artists give for one anothers' work, the more exposure they get for their own.  In this way I hope that artists won't have to "Kill" their corporate masters, but rather that we can become our own bosses.  After all I read somewhere once that people are willing to work harder for less if they are doing something that they love...<p>What does HN think?
-Shoham
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ScottWhigham
"Unless and until the tech industry can do this, and help develop new ways for
artists to empower themselves, the self-righteousness will backfire, the way
it did for musicians who railed for generations against the powers that be and
are now left with

I'm also a musician and software developer but I don't agree that there are
"less employment opportunities in the industry than at any time in the last
100 years." That is just ludicrously false. You're saying that, in the Great
Depression, to pick an obvious example, times were better and easier for
musicians? Or during World War I? Or WWII?

Sorry - I think this is the golden age for being an artist. Never before has
it been so easy to record and distribute. I can self-record as many albums as
I want today for $3000 worth of pro-sumer level gear. I can print physical
copies of the CDs for $1.50-$2 each and sell them for $10 at shows or make $7
by selling them online. I can sell digital copies for $0 upfront cost to me. I
can have a free website with any number of sites. I can post my events on
Facebook at no charge.

I'm sorry - I 100% disagree with you here.

~~~
shoham
That's OK. I think for hobbyists it's a great time, but for making money, it's
not so good out there, especially because of technology-- almost all
entertainment is not just free, it's available on demand 24/7 at home, so
people don't go out to shows like during the depression.

Just what I've seen from my experience over the last 15 years, and what I hear
from peers.

On another note, let me know what you think about what we're doing with Feed-
Forward: <http://www.feed-forward.net> I think you might like it. One benefit
is we don't take any cut from your sales (digital or otherwise).

Take care! -Shoham

~~~
ScottWhigham
"I think for hobbyists it's a great time, but for making money, it's not so
good out there, especially because of technology"

Again - I 100% disagree, for all of the same reasons I listed above. I
respectfully will just tell you flat out that you are wrong - 100% wrong.
Hobbyists who aren't worth a crap - yes, it's tough for them to make money.
True musicians who can play and write amazing music can make more now than
ever before. There are more avenues to make money today also - it's not just
CD sales and live shows anymore. Now it's merch, DVDs, writing, lessons,
television/movies, internet collabs.

You are just naive or willfully obstinate if you tell us that you think
differently.

Sorry - I have no desire to check out your site since we see things so
differently. I wish you the best but I don't see why I would check it out.

------
samlev
I think that the major problem that many people (myself included) have with
the music and film industries is that they actually show very little interest
in supporting, nurturing, or rewarding the talent that they rely on. The call
to "kill hollywood" isn't a call to wipe out these large companies on
principal; it's a call to bring in a new _breed_ of companies which give
everyone (artists and consumers) a better deal.

The real problem is that people have been beholden to these monopolies who
very obviously don't have their best interests at heart. We are now, thanks to
internet and unprecedented levels of connectivity between people, in a
position where we can (with a bit of effort, admittedly) take back some
control and build something better for everyone.

So that's how I see it. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction to SOPA/PIPA/ACTA (at
least, not entirely). This is a call for people to make the world a bit better
before the incumbent powers that be destroy our chance to.

~~~
shoham
Agreed. Let me know what you think about a little project I launched over a
year ago with a friend: <http://www.feed-forward.net>

A few things about FeeForward, from an earlier post:

FeedForward (A)Gives incentive for artists to give constructive feedback and
positive reinforcement for each others work (helping to overcome what I call
"The crabs in a barrel effect" whereas artists often ignore each other, spam
each other or troll each other online and IRL, on Feedback the discourse is
both constructive and insightful) (B) I take no cut or commission from sales,
either digital or physical -- so artists keep their earnings (minus a small
PayPal transaction fee)! and (C) FeeForward features artists of all
disciplines: writers, flash developers, musicians, visual artists as well as
film makers. Artists help support and promote each other, and thereby earn
more exposure for themselves.

My primary interest is in doing exactly what you're talking about, supporting
struggling artists (like me) :D

Let me know what you think. -Shoham

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VikingCoder
"the movie and tv industries are and have been the best employers of artists
this side of the Medici clan."

Your definition of "best" and mine are vastly different.

They exploit artists, for great profit. There's such demand that they are able
to exploit many artists. The costs are so low, that they can afford to employ
many more artists than will succeed. The artists love their craft so much, and
are often so desperate to make it big, that they will work for ridiculously
low wages AND absolutely zero job security.

We all know that distribution used to be hard, and now it is not. Distribution
used to be the main reason why you needed to sign with a label, or a studio.
Reaching a "good enough" level of quality used to require an enormous, up-
front investment of capital. Now, it doesn't.

Kill exploiters. Reward supporters.

~~~
shoham
I don't think that distribution is as important as promotion, but promotion is
incredibly hard, in reality. Yes, the internet provides the ABILITY to promote
oneself, but actually getting through, and capitalizing on whatever exposure
you earn is tough stuff!

If you want to reward supporters, I submit to you a project I launched over a
year ago to support artists that is continuing to grow, but can always use
more support itself: <http://www.feed-forward.net>

FeedForward (A)Gives incentive for artists to give constructive feedback and
positive reinforcement for each others work (helping to overcome what I call
"The crabs in a barrel effect" whereas artists often ignore each other, spam
each other or troll each other online and IRL, on Feedback the discourse is
both constructive and insightful) (B) I take no cut or commission from sales,
either digital or physical -- so artists keep their earnings (minus a small
PayPal transaction fee)! and (C) FeeForward features artists of all
disciplines: writers, flash developers, musicians, visual artists as well as
film makers. Artists help support and promote each other, and thereby earn
more exposure for themselves, I think you'll like what we're doing :D Check it
out, and let me know what you think.

Thanks, -Shoham

