

Nokia’s Lumia line ‘not good enough’ to battle iOS and Android, say carriers - shin_lao
http://venturebeat.com/2012/04/17/nokias-lumia-line-not-good-enough-to-battle-ios-and-android-say-carriers/

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melling
The reality for app developers is that supporting a third platform is really
stretching it. Even in the PC vs. Mac desktop world, the Mac often gets
forgotten. It only has 5-7% market share so it's not worth the effort for many
developers. Linux? Not a chance. I'd pay for Photoshop on Linux, really!
Anyway, Linux might take off as an appliance someday, but I'm digressing.

At this point, Microsoft is probably too late. It'll sell phones to people who
just want phones, but I think it's too late for the whole ecosystem. Not to
worry for fans, I doubt if they'll ever give up.

~~~
freehunter
I wouldn't rush that claim until Windows 8 is released. Despite the prejudice
thrown at it by the Internet community (despite the product not actually being
out), people will buy it. New computers will come with it. Developers will
make software for it. And that software will be able to run on Windows Phone
with only slight modifications.

So unless you're predicting imminent death for the company with the
overwhelming majority of marketshare, people will be developing apps for
Windows, which puts them 90% of the way towards having an app for Windows
Phone.

~~~
runako
>> And that software will be able to run on Windows Phone with only slight
modifications.

I'd bet accomplished mobile devs would take exception to that. Changing the
UI, inputs metaphors, device capabilities, etc. may not be significant to some
apps, but those are are in the minority.

~~~
tluyben2
I was coming here to say that; this is true for crap apps. The apps which has
10 downloads in it's life and then the dev writes a post-mortem on Reddit
proclaiming you cannot make money with mobile apps. UI is getting more and
more important and switching from desktop to mobile is definitely not changing
10%.

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Tuna-Fish
I'd say a large proportion of the carrier sales boycott of WP is simply
fallout of the MS acquisition of Skype. The carriers are scared shitless about
being reduced to dumb pipes, and purchasing Skype was pretty much an open
declaration of war from MS.

Nice rock you tied yourself to, Nokia.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Aren't they dumb pipes already? I struggle to remember any examples of their
contribution to the user experience. I can remember dozens of stories where
they took advantage of their clients or harmed them in other way, tho.

They better stay pipes.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
They bill for texts and calls, for rates hugely separated from the data cost
of the operations.

They should naturally be just dumb pipes. They are fighting tooth and nail to
not to be forced to that role.

~~~
stcredzero
_They should naturally be just dumb pipes._

Does the fact that someone isn't wildly successful doing this indicate a
market failure?

~~~
Tuna-Fish
The cost of entering the market is truly staggering. I'd be ready to make the
case that last-mile ISPs (which the carriers really are, they just operate
with wireless) should be utilities, with all the baggage that entails, for
exactly the same reason water and electricity are utilities.

~~~
protomyth
I actually wish the local gas / electric company would start running fiber to
people's homes. They are ok with the economics of commodity products and
already have access to the home.

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freehunter
_He said Microsoft's software worked nicely with PCs and allowed you "to do
tons of cool things" but few customers knew this._

Isn't this what the sales reps are supposed to do? Help the customer make an
informed decision? Or are they just paid to be hand the customer a phone?

Why wouldn't the conversation go like this:

Do you own a Mac or a PC? Mac: buy an iPhone, unless you care about... PC: Do
you like to listen to a lot of music/are you active on Xbox Live/etc... do you
use iTunes/have a lot of friends playing iPhone games... do you like (whatever
mainstream aspect Android has over the competition)...

Fill in the blanks with what sales reps are paid to do. Find what your
customer wants and needs, show them the phone that covers that aspect, show
them the competition, make a recommendation, then let them choose. If the
customer doesn't go into the store knowing 100% what they want, it's the reps
place to help them understand. Not to sell them an iPhone or a Galaxy.

~~~
ticks
Presumably it has a lot to do with the ecosystem that the customer has already
bought into. If they already use Google's products, then Android phones are
the natural option, if iTunes then Apple. Nokia's shoved themselves into a
specialist category by opting for Windows-only.

~~~
yread
because nobody uses windows or office or xbox? This argument doesn't work

~~~
rbanffy
That's the point. People keep their data on Google products, using (or not)
Windows machines. Windows machines are pipes to your data.

Unless you depend on Office, which doesn't run on the phone anyway. And they
already have Xboxes - they don't need matching phones.

~~~
yread
According to wiki Hotmail has more users than Gmail [1]. You and I might think
they are just tools and they don't know what they are doing since gmail just
blows hotmail out of the water in every respect, but it is popular. I don't
think there is any other Google product that would be as popular as gmail.

Office does run on the phone! It's not full featured of course but you can do
basic editing and reading... see [2] for early version

There are plenty of games on the phone which have some connection to similar
games on xbox through Xbox Live - achievements. I think that Microsoft could
do more to improve the standing of WP7 in the Xbox live - it's available on
other platforms and some games are released even first for iPhone and then for
WP7

But overall I think WP7 has quite some association with the ecosystem.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail>

[2]
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbjT2dUtQA&feature=fvst](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbjT2dUtQA&feature=fvst)

~~~
rbanffy
I'm not sure - it's a different public. I'm not sure the features set and
ecosystem integration of WP7 appeal to the average smartphone user.

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protomyth
It's the same argument that Microsoft reps made against using Mac OS, Linux,
BeOS, NeXTSTEP, etc. on the desktop. "You need to go with the most installed
base / most apps to not waste your money".

I get the feeling that Microsoft / Nokia is going to have to aggressively go
after the pre-pay and feature phone market. They need something that undercuts
the price and makes money for all the independents that sell phones. Android
and iPhone are not players in the pre-pay market.

~~~
firefoxman1
That would be a really great strategy. I love the pricing style of prepaid
plans, but the phone selection is horrible. I always end up unlocking a
smartphone and hacking it onto a prepaid plan.

If Microsoft could also make data more available/affordable for prepaid plans,
it would definitely be a hit.

~~~
protomyth
I am actually surprised one of the Android-based companies who isn't winning
doesn't make an attempt at that market. It gets you the market share and makes
it easier to upsell customers on your "premium" versions.

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thought_alarm
"No one comes into the store and asks for a Windows phone."

Of course not. People come into the store and ask for a phone the does "the
email and stuff", and walk out with some Samsung model they've previously
never heard of.

Microsoft is currently paying AT&T to push the Nokia Lumia. The rest of the
carriers have zero incentive to push Windows Phone devices when companies like
Samsung and LG are so willing to customize their Android devices to each
carrier's whim.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Which is a selling point, by the way. The device in pristine state not touched
by carriers is obviously better than "customized" one.

~~~
notatoad
it's not a selling point. a selling point is something that a salesperson can
take advantage of to make a sale, and "my employer hasn't fucked this phone up
as much as they have those other ones" isn't something a salesperson can tell
a customer.

lack of carrier crap is a feature, but it's not an advertisable one. even
microsoft can't advertise it, because they have relationships with carriers to
maintain.

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coob
How about letting customer's decide? I cannot wait until carriers (and ISPs)
are dragged kicking and screaming down to the level of basic utility pipe
providers they really are.

~~~
talmand
From my limited experience all I've heard is the people who have them love
them but the people who sell them push people to other platforms. I've always
heard talk of kickbacks for selling one phone over another.

For the vast majority of people out there just about any of the decent
smartphones will work for them, they just have to play with them to decided
which one they like best. Arguments over things like "not enough apps" or "too
much fragmentation" is most likely not an issue (knowingly or unknowingly) to
most shoppers.

It seems logical to assume that the sales guy will push you towards the phone
he needs to sell, whether due to kickbacks, quotas, or management pressure.
This is done regardless of the wants and needs of the customer. Part of my
reasoning behind this is just the general behavior of these companies towards
their customers to begin with.

~~~
orbitingpluto
The 'kickbacks' usually come in the form of retail 'educational programs'. The
most effective of these are of the form: (pretend to) read some articles, take
a quiz, earn some points and then redeem them for branded gadgets.

I once worked retail as a computer 'technician' for three months and I made as
much in free stuff as I did in wages. (I was quite up front about my limited
tenure there but I later found out why HR took no issue with that: at three
months you can be the senior non-mgmt employee.) I would assume these loyalty
programs are becoming even more aggressive towards retail workers and that you
could even quintuple your 'salary' for the lowest paid computer/phone
positions.

If you've ever wondered why Craigslist was flooded with $1000 CPUs priced to
$300, now you know.

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xam
Because the carriers really know what they're doing. What a bunch of
imbeciles. The first iPhone was nearly killed by the morons.

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corysama
This article has a good breakdown of why carriers are strongly motivated
downplay Windows phones.

[http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-
superio...](http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-
hasnt-it-taken-off/)

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elorant
It’s amazing to realize that it took only five years for a giant like Nokia to
become irrelevant in the market. That says a lot about the competitiveness and
the speed of progress in the computing world.

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MrVitaliy
If it's the same "carrier" who put crap-load of useless, buggy malware with
every android phone they sell, then who cares what they say. They clearly have
no clue what is even "good enough" to weight in an opinion about Nokia.

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nvrmor
The Elopalypse continues...

