
Death Of The Mouse? - chaostheory
http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/01/10/death-mouse
======
Derbasti
Since our eyes are built into the front plate of our head and our head is
mounted upright on our torso, displays are bound to stand vertically in front
of our eyes. Hands are pretty bad at interacting with vertical surfaces as
this requires us to lift both hands and arms for prolonged periods of time.

Hence, there has to be a horizontal, desktop-surface that we manually interact
with and a vertical surface that we look at. This seems to require some kind
of virtual agent that represents the hand on the screen. I don't think mouses
and keyboards are going away any time soon (even though they might get
enhanced with other technologies)

~~~
julian37
That is not entirely true. Our head isn't mounted on our torso, it's mounted
on our neck which can swivel! That's why you don't have to hold a book or your
mobile phone or tablet at eye level.

Also, many marvelous masterpieces have been created by painters working with
an easel, where the requirement of having to lift their arms doesn't seem to
have been too much of a distraction.

If you really want to interact with a horizontal input device and a vertical
output device, mice are not the only option. Pen tablets like those made by
Wacom come to mind.

EDIT: Also check out the BendDesk which tries to address the
horizontal/vertical issue: <http://hci.rwth-aachen.de/benddesk>

~~~
Derbasti
True indeed. But painting involves steady motion of the hand whereas
interaction with computers requires much less motion and thus is far more
straining for our arms.

Basically, it all revolves around strain: We don't want to strain our arms by
holding something up in the air for a long time and we don't want to strain
out neck by holding the head in an imbalanced position for a long time. As
long as the head can sit more or less balanced on the neck, we are fine.
Hence, if we sit back, the comfortable position for the head is to look
slightly downwards compared to the rest of the body. However, the head
actually is still upright, only the body is at an angle. Of course, we can
still move our eyes without straining the neck muscles. We are fine with
looking something like 45° downwards. (Actually, we are most comfortable with
looking at the ground a few dozen meters/feet away. That is the natural
looking angle.)

Hence, monitors should sit slightly below eye level (for practical reasons,
they usually extend from there to desktop level). Manual input devices should
be located slightly below elbow level one forearm-length in front of the
belly.

It will be interesting, _which_ manual input devices will sit there in the
future. But I would guess that they will always sit there, and not on the
display.

~~~
julian37
Point taken, but I think there's a difference between casual and professional,
extended use. For casual use I can see touch taking over more and more, and
for professional use - such as for graphic designers or compositors - the
mouse isn't always the best input device to begin with.

------
xd
Oh great, another "Death of .." article. When will we see the death of them.

But seriously .. As an avid gamer I can't see the mouse going any place for a
long time. Eye tracking or a USB port into the back of the head are the only
viable-ish alternatives I can imagine due to the extremely precise and fast
interaction needed.

~~~
BahUnfair
Tell that to the console gamers...

P.S: I can't help but think the "death of.." articles are just to get page
views with sensational titles and articles, mind you thats been the standard
for newspapers since before the net.

~~~
viraptor
Well... there's a reason Quake-like fast-paced games are not popular on
consoles. Sure - I have no problems playing slower games like Deus Ex on a
controller, but for typical multiplayer FPSes that wouldn't work. Essentially
you just learn now much you move the mouse to do a 180 turn and you have it in
muscule memory. The moment you move the mouse, you start turning. With
controllers where you actually control the acceleration of the movement, that
experience is much worse. You simply cannot make a precise turn around on the
spot without a lot of training. On top of that you're usually limited to the
specific number of buttons unfortunately.

Of course you won't notice most of those issues on the console games...
because they're designed so that you don't need more than N buttons, they're
not as fast as promode quake, they add other elements to shift the idea from
the raw fps (multiplayer q1/q3-pm being prime examples probably) to a goal
based game, team play, etc.

~~~
iron_ball
I agree that mouse/keyboard is better for first-person shooters, but FPS games
are still wildly popular on consoles. Halo and Call of Duty are the biggest
examples.

------
potatolicious
Touch killing the mouse makes about as much sense as helicopters killing
airplanes.

~~~
drtse4
Yes, even in 2011 i still don't see anything that could really substitute the
mouse on desktops or laptops. Every alternative is a pain to use (e.g.
touchpads).

~~~
chaostheory
I actually work faster using a [touchpad + keyboard] vs [mouse + keyboard].
The trick is placement. The touchpad needs to be right below the keyboard
(like a macbook layout) so you can switch faster between typing and moving the
cursor as opposed to using a mouse. If your OS / trackpad supports gestures,
that increases speed of use as well.

For comfort, imo the whole thing needs to be lower, closer to your legs. If
you're using a standing position instead of sitting, just change the position
to closer to your thighs.

~~~
bobds
My wireless mouse is usually in front of my keyboard, ending up between my
arms while I'm typing.

------
ronaldj
Personal computing has left the realm of the desk and the office. Surely, we
can use a mouse and keyboard while being mobile, but we wouldn't trade the
accuracy and ergonomics of a mouse and keyboard for something else when at
home or at work. Many new devices, like the iPad, are consumption devices. You
use it to watch videos, to play games, to listen to music, to read books, or
to surf the web. Creation on these devices is limited. Surely, you can type an
email or take notes in a meeting, but what you gain in mobility you lose in
accuracy and ergonomics. The mouse has been around for fifty years and its
design has been iterated upon again and again, from a simple block of wood to
well formed plastic molds to fit various hand shapes and sizes. Touches and
gestures may be the new hot thing, but for real work the mouse isn't going
anywhere.

~~~
msh
Ehmmm, the ergonomics of mice is horrid. Just read a bit about mouse damages.

Touch might not be the saviour, but dont holdt the mouse as a good example of
ergonomics.

------
stratjakt
Microsoft presented their new touch mouse at CES. Yeah, mice are definitely
not new and exciting at this point, but until 'touch' becomes ubiquitous they
are still quite necessary.

Since I still have to live with mice for the foreseeable future, I'm
frustrated at the lack of decent wired mice on the market. Wireless mice
always give me tracking issues and I don't like the inconvenience of replacing
batteries. But every new mouse on the market is wireless now.

I'd love to try the Apple Magic Mouse or even the new Microsoft touch mouse,
but I'm not willing to deal with wireless. Therefore, I'm using an
IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0, a mouse first released in 2001, because new mouse
innovations don't come with USB models anymore.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
What are your concerns with using a wireless mouse?

~~~
stratjakt
On gaming mice: I don't need anymore DPI. I'm not a gamer, so buying a gaming
mouse is just spending money on features that I won't use.

On the latest wireless mice: I have tried new wireless mice. It's not the
efficiency of the mouse it self thats the problem. It's the fact that they all
use AA or AAA cells. Therefore, I have to eventually remove them, charge them,
and replace them in the mouse. Plus the NiCad batteries eventually loose
capacity after a few cycles (even the nice kind like Eneloop).

The biggest problem is wireless interference and tracking latency that I
experience with all wireless mice.

There still is innovation in the mouse field. Placing a touch interface on a
mouse is great. From my short experience with one, I've found it to be the
biggest innovation since 'scroll wheels' and 'optical tracking'.

Right now, it seems like seems like the mouse market is divided between gamers
(people who want the maximum DPI and lots of programmable buttons) and casual
users (people who want a simple, lightweight and wireless mouse for there
laptop). Someone like myself (a computer professional, who wants something
sturdy, comfortable and reliable) is no longer considered a market.

I really would like to use a mouse with a touch surface, but without a wired
USB connection, the inconvenience outweighs the benefits.

~~~
dmnd
Just get a gaming mouse. They're exactly what you want (sturdy, comfortable
and reliable) so don't be put off by a high DPI - you can always reduce the
sensitivity. I like the Logitech G9 or MX518. The latter is $35 at Newegg and
you can regularly get them cheaper with rebates.

------
bad_user
By mouse I understand the ability to move the mouse pointer and left/right
click.

At a conference it's better to go light, just with your laptop/netbook,
carrying a real mouse around doesn't make sense, but when standing in front of
a computer at work or home for several hours a real mouse is still more
comfortable/ergonomic than a touchpad, although I do find the touchpad more
comfortable in situations where I do lots of typing, since it's closer to the
keyboard.

I get the trend of smaller / lighter / more portable ... I haven't used a
desktop in 2 years. But I still use a good keyboard and mouse when I'm at my
desk; anything less is just for superficial usage.

------
loewenskind
I would absolutely expect the death of the mouse. In its current form that is.
In my opinion the mouse interface introduced with the MBP and now purchasable
as an external component is a sign of the future. It has the same precision as
a regular mouse so you don't have the iPad's touch problem of lack of
precision, but you move your finger on the device instead of moving the
device.

That alone wouldn't be enough to unseat the vulnerable mouse but the advantage
the touchpad is that it can track multiple fingers. I envision a future where
the keyboard is extended with a kind of flat space that can take precise input
from all 10 fingers.

I've seen a demo somewhere that had exactly that, but I don't know what's come
of it.

~~~
vacri
That 'touchpad plate' of Apple's (can't recall the official name) isn't as
precise as a mouse. Our web developer gets a new box from Foxconn about once a
week as he pretty much buys one of everything Apple makes. A true afficionado
of the touchscreen/pad, he just couldn't use that plate for the specific
reason that it's just not accurate enough for serious work. Touch and mouse
focus on different things - and the mouse is venerable, not vulnerable :)

~~~
loewenskind
>isn't as precise as a mouse.

I'll have to take your word for it, but I haven't noticed anything in my minor
gaming [1]. But even if it isn't today I don't see why it couldn't be and a
mouse will never be able to keep up with multiple inputs a touch interface
can. As more and more applications start making use of this feature mice will
become less and less usable.

>and the mouse is venerable, not vulnerable

It was indeed a typo, but I would claim it's both at this point. :)

[1] Certain types of games I have, like "flying around shooting stuff" ones
require finer control than what I was able to get from a $250 joystick. I had
to use the mouse for finer control. I haven't noticed a problem using the
touch pad for these.

------
pkamb
I'd normally say a resounding "no" for the reasons everyone else is stating:
fat finger problem, pixel-perfect precision, arm strain of pointing at a
screen, etc.

However, for the last year or so I've exclusively used the Trackpoint on my
Thinkpad. Amazing little gizmo. Almost the same precision as a mouse, three
buttons to click with, and it keeps your hands in the touch-typing position at
all times. I was experiencing pretty bad mouse-button-clicking RSI, and
hitting the Trackpoint buttons with my thumbs instead saves me.

Any other fans here?

~~~
InclinedPlane
I prefer to use the "trackpoint" or a trackball as much as possible. For
certain activities like gaming or detailed photoshop work a mouse is
preferable due to increased precision, but for ordinary GUI interaction the
better ergonomics of the trackball pay off immensely.

I think multi-touch is interesting, and I think it's dominant right now in
electronics shows precisely because it is new, interesting, and innovative.
But I don't think it will be the one and only pointing device to ever exist in
the future.

------
baconhammer
Darn, I was hoping the article would be about trackballs. :-)

~~~
stratjakt
I know! Why can't I get a trackball on a laptop anymore! :-P

------
motters
I've recently started using a tablet/pen, and for most purposes it's a good
mouse replacement, and it's also better for sketching. Using buttons on the
pen is a bit fiddly, but tapping the pen is an equivalent in most situations.
For playing traditional kinds of PC games I notice that the mouse is still by
far the best option though.

------
vain
I would always buy a good mouse till i bought my macbook pro.

After each 2-3 day hacking session, i would resurface with paining dry eyes
and aching wrist and elbow.

Now, after similar sessions, i am only left with dry eyes.

I haven't really read up about the ergonomics of multi-touch track pads, but i
think they inflict either lesser RSI or are attacking a different set of
muscles.

