
I'm almost homeless: Why you should not go outside Airbnb's payment system - GreenTomato
This is the story of how an airbnb host accepted a lower offer for his place for a month, but only if I paid in cash. I was desperate, with no place else to go and against my own good sense I did it.<p>The place turned out to be infested, and without using airbnb's payment system, we were without recourse.<p>My co-founder and I moved to Austin Texas with enough money for two months of runway. All we needed to do in those two months was triple our monthly revenue to become ramen profitable. We felt we could do it in one month.<p>We booked one place on airbnb for 8 days and it was fantastic. We thought in that time we could find a more permanent place to stay. It was far harder to find housing in Austin than we anticipated.<p>We were getting desperate so we tried airbnb for a place for a month. I had read here at hacker news that people have great success negotiating better prices by contacting the hosts.<p>We only had a couple more days to find a place and we were getting desperate.<p>We found a place listed for $810 a month on airbnb. I offered the host $500. He gave me his phone number in a way so as to confuse airbnb's phone number filters.<p>I called him and he told me he would rent his place for $500 per month, but only if we paid in cash.<p>I knew it was a bad idea, but it was becoming a choice between a hotel (which I had no money for) and homelessness.<p>Everyone else we contacted said their places were booked or were 1200 per month or more. We were running out of options.<p>I paid him $500 in cash the day I arrived at the place and everything looked good in the day time.<p>When the sun set the first night we were watching Forrest Gump when we saw a gigantic cockroach climbing on the wall!<p>It was huge! I have never seen one that big in my life! I jumped up, and grabbed my backpack off the floor and another one runs out from under my backpack!<p>It turns out the place was crawling with roaches. We started seeing them everywhere.<p>They were large and not afraid of us, they would charge at us.<p>We realized this was not going to be a place where we could focus on our start up. We couldn't even get a good night sleep because I would dream of bugs crawling on me.<p>Then we start to notice that the host has put little cockroach traps in every room, we even see some rat traps in the kitchen.<p>It was after midnight now and we decided to just sleep there that one night and figure something out in the morning.<p>We slept with the lights on to hopefully scare the roaches away.<p>The place also had a ton of mosquitos, so many that I would get bit three times walking from the bedroom to the kitchen.<p>The next day we are seeing roaches in the kitchen crawling over the counters and everything. An apple that we bought and put on the counter had been cored out by what I imagine was an army of roaches that night.<p>The host isn't returning our calls. He finally comes around the next day.<p>We tell him that we are leaving and that we can't stay because of the roaches.<p>He claims that roaches are just a part of life in Texas and are completely normal.<p>He does give us back $160 dollars in cash though and tells us he will give us the rest later when he gets it. He says he will keep in touch.<p>We had to rent another place and pay another month's rent. This place doesn't have a real kitchen, so we are buying much more expensive food and burning money faster. Now things are getting tight. We are counting on this guy to come through for us with a refund.<p>I had been trying to contact him all week and he is ignoring me. Im trying to find a time to meet him to give him back the keys and get some boxes we had left there.<p>When I see him he tells me he moved back in and took the place off airbnb and doesn't feel he owes us anything because we should have sucked it up and dealt with the roaches.<p>I say I will feel it was fair if we pay half, and he says life isn't fair.<p>If we had used airbnb's payment system we could have gotten a full refund when the place was not as advertised within 24 hours. The host also chose a flexible cancellation policy which would have allowed us to get a full refund of any unused days.<p>So always use the airbnb payment system no matter how much pressure a host puts on you not too!<p>I would like to thank the airbnb founders for creating such a great service, I will definitely be using it again and recommending it to friends and I will always be telling them to use the airbnb payment system!<p>This whole thing has put our start up in a precarious place, but we are finding ways around it. We had not wanted to raise any money or borrow any money, but now we are looking into offering friends and family 1 year 12% bonds (personal loans).<p>I can probably do a couple consulting jobs which will cover things, I had wanted to avoid this because our start up is really picking up, we have about 1/4 million users a month now.<p>We are also thinking of creating a product related to our startup and raising money for it on kickstarter.<p>I also might sell my macbook air and Sony FX-7 camera.<p>It's been a good lesson, and makes me more sympathetic to people in a bad situation. Sometimes its just a couple things going wrong...
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boyter
I guess I should pass this piece of advice on. If you have roaches in your
house (or anywhere for that matter) there is a simple cheap effective way to
get rid of them.

Boric acid. Just sprinkle it around the place (its not toxic to humans, or
comparable to salt anyway), on the sideboards, and anywhere else the roaches
are likely to go. It will kill them all pretty quickly.

I recently had issues with the neighbor having lots of them and boric acid
really controlled them. Before applying I saw at least a dozen on any given
day. Afterwards I was (un)lucky to see one a week.

~~~
ra
> _(its not toxic to humans, or comparable to salt anyway)_

This is FALSE, and very dangerous advice for people with infants.

Quote from NSW Food Authority [1]:

 _"Borax, also known as sodium borate (Na2B4O7.10H2), and boric acid (H3BO3)
are colourless, salt-like substance that can also be a white powder."_

 _"What are the symptoms of Borax poisoning?_

 _Some of the symptoms of Borax ingestion include headache, fever, nausea,
vomiting, and red eyes._

 _Symptoms may appear 2 to 4 hours after ingesting Borax._

 _If you have ingested Borax, or come into contact with someone with these
symptoms, you should call the NSW Poisons Information 24 hour hot line on 13
11 26 and seek immediate medial attention at your local doctor’s surgery or
hospital._

 _If large amounts of Borax are consumed, acute kidney failure and death may
result."_

Not to say it isn't good at killing roaches, but please don't use it believing
it's non-toxic.

[1] [http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/other-food-
top...](http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/other-food-topics/borax-
and-boric-acid/)

~~~
boyter
That site doesn't list how much you need to consume to have any affects hence
my statement that its comparable to salt, IE if you eat a lot of salt you will
be in a bad way too.

That was my previous understanding though. If you have any sources to show
what sort of consumption you need to have any sort of toxic effect I would be
very interested.

Something people reading this may not know is that Chinese restaurants did use
it for a long time as a meat tenderiser and still do in China and presumably
in other parts of the world too.

~~~
kens
I read an interesting article a few days ago about how borax was used in the
US as a meat preservative up through the early 20th century, along with more
toxic substances like copper sulfate and formaldehyde. In those days there
were no food safety regulations, so manufacturers used whatever they wanted.

Suspicious of the safety of these additives, a chemist from the U.S.
Department of Agriculture formed volunteer "Poison Squads" to test if these
substances were actually safe or not. The article discusses his work, and is
worth a look.

"Death in the Pot": [http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/essays/death-in-the-
pot.php?...](http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/essays/death-in-the-
pot.php?page=all)

------
diogenescynic
"The host isn't returning our calls. He _finally_ comes around the next day.

We tell him that we are leaving and that we can't stay because of the roaches.

He claims that roaches are just a part of life in Texas and are completely
normal.

He does give us back $160 dollars in cash though and tells us he will give us
the rest later when he gets it. He says he will keep in touch"

Sorry, but I think you're being unreasonable by asking for too much. It's the
same as the adage about Fast/Good/Cheap--pick two, you can never have all
three. It sounds like the owner was busy, not avoiding you--he comes over the
next day and that's avoiding? He gives you part of your money back and doesn't
lie about the issue. I'm failing to see a problem here.

I also find the entire story highly exaggerated: An apple that we bought and
put on the counter had been cored out by what I imagine was an army of roaches
that night.

\----

"When I see him he tells me he moved back in and took the place off airbnb and
doesn't feel he owes us anything because we should have sucked it up and dealt
with the roaches.

I say I will feel it was fair if we pay half, and he says life isn't fair."

Again, this is completely reasonable. He owes you nothing, you didn't sign a
contract. You had unrealistic expectations that under any circumstances would
have been disappointed no matter what the situation.

Edit: I'm becoming more convinced this story is entirely fake to begin with
looking at what questions the OP has chosen to answer/ignore.

------
cobralibre
Roaches are unpleasant, and I empathize, but Texas is going through a historic
drought right now. You can expect to find thirsty pests heading indoors.

And I haven't heard of $500/month rent in Austin in over a decade. For rent
that cheap, expect hardships.

~~~
randito
Yes, cobralibre is correct. I live in Austin and even with a regularly-
scheduled pest treatment, we are still getting lots of bugs in the house. It's
really hot out there and it's driving the bugs indoors.

------
nhangen
Just roaches dude. Yeah, it's a PITA, but at worst you could've called an
exterminator and saved several hundred bucks. Due dilligence, and don't be a
wimp.

~~~
GreenTomato
Dude that wouldn't have even worked because the place wasn't properly sealed
off from the outside. You could kill all the roaches inside and new ones would
just come back.

~~~
GreenTomato
Also because I know someone is going to say I didn't plan ahead or came on too
tight a budget... I know. I'm living on the edge and pushing things but it
will turn out ok and I will have had a valuable experience.

I'm just trying to protect someone else from getting screwed over by sharing
my experience.

~~~
nhangen
You didn't get screwed over IMO. You paid half price, and got half the value.
You didn't expect any problems at that price?

~~~
GreenTomato
There are lots of rooms in Austin available for $500 a month. You can get a
master bedroom with private bath for that price.

We could have we just ran out of time.

------
darksaga
Good story, good life lesson. You tried to game the system and got jacked in
the process.

Let me tell you, I hate bugs as much as the next guy and I feel for you. I
lived in some dumps, but never with any roaches. I went to college up north in
Minnesota and we used to all pitch in and get bug bombs for our house. About
once every 6 months always did the trick.

You don't say in your article why you needed to move to Austin in the first
place. What was it about where you were living which wasn't conducive to your
start-up succeeding?

------
jinushaun
All this over some roaches? Seriously? I don't know where you're originally
from, but around here (Virginia), insects indoors are a part of life. Having
recently moved from cold Seattle, I've never seen so many bugs in my life. I
feel like I'm in the jungle.

------
jjcm
I'm not sure what the situation in Texas is, but I know many homes in Hawaii
specifically will mention that refunds aren't available due to roach
occupation in the home. Cockroaches there are quite literally a way of life.
Doesn't matter how clean your house is, you will have them. You kind of get
used to them while living there, and after a while they don't really bother
you. Texas may very well have the same situation, so he may not be lying when
he says that they're a way of life. Can't be sure though.

~~~
zacharydanger
It's most definitely not the way of life here in Texas. I'm currently in
Dallas, but grew up in the sticks and have never had to cope with the roach
situation he's describing.

~~~
greendot
I'm in north Dallas and unless you pay for regular extermination visits,
roaches are a way of life if you live near open areas. I have a 10 acre ranch
behind, two parks within a half mile, and a creek a few hundred feet away, and
roaches and mice just love to cool off or warm up in the house, depending on
the time of year. Although, this year it is rats and spiders, go figure.

~~~
Vivtek
You realize you're not seeing roaches because the rats are eating them, right?
(Healthy ecology, healthy home!)

------
philwelch
_We had to rent another place and pay another month's rent. This place doesn't
have a real kitchen, so we are buying much more expensive food and burning
money faster._

You can simulate a great deal of a kitchen if you buy a hot plate, a rice
cooker, and maybe a microwave or toaster oven. You'll have to wash dishes in
the bathroom sink. It sucks. But eating out isn't always your only option.

------
kragen
This is a great story! Thanks for sharing!

It's not really surprising that someone who was willing to cheat AirBNB out of
their cut of the deal was also willing to cheat you. You've got to watch out
when you're dealing with people like that.

Couldn't you have hired exterminators for US$310? Let alone US$700. Also,
Hostelling International Austin charges US$28 per bed per night with a shared
bathroom in the room, so your (potential) savings on the AirBNB deal are at
least good for a week in a youth hostel.

~~~
almightygod
I don't really think they guy cheated them. They saw the place and paid for
it, the guy clearly isn't running at hilton here. At $500 month in a major
city, I wouldn't expect anything less then sub-standard living conditions.

~~~
GreenTomato
Don't you think he should have mentioned that there are tons of roaches in his
place in the listing? Or on the phone?

~~~
kragen
He should.

------
DomainNoob
This has a little bit of the feel of those Craigslist AirBnB stories that came
out about a month ago. Could they be farming HN now?

------
dcpdx
Welcome to Texas. I had never even seen a cockroach before moving to Houston
from Michigan in 2008, but I saw my first one within the first three days of
living there (and I was living in a $1,200/mo apt. in a nice area). Maybe to
reduce your burn rate you could catch a few and roast them over a fire to save
on food costs :)

------
dawie
What are you working on?

~~~
leeHS
post a url please

~~~
shii
Sure: <http://airbnb.com>

------
ismarc
Drop me a line if you're looking for a place to rent, depending on what you
can afford, I know a cheap, crime free, close to grocery store/bus lines
apartment complex and have lived in nearly every part of the city, so I can at
least guide you on where to look. Nothing else, I can pay for a beer.

------
tsewlliw
Austinite here. Roaches infestation is absolutely NOT something I would expect
to see, no matter how much or little I was paying. a couple of them, whatever,
but if youre debating whether you can sleep the night, you're not renting from
a person that lives on the same plane of reality.

------
duncan_bayne
Hey, look at it another way: they've included food in the $500.
[http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-04-15/entertainment/270...](http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-04-15/entertainment/27061820_1_caterpillars-
bell-peppers-stir-fried) ;-)

------
leeHS
What is your startup? Post a url..I'm interesting in checking out what you're
working on.

------
teddytruong7
It's true that roaches are a PITA when it comes to your own living space. But
imagine what story you could have told if part of your startup's success came
from overcoming this event? Hahaha it sounds ridiculous -- but really, people
would have loved it. Also, I feel that the best decision would have been to
get a master bedroom for $500.. You and your co-founder would work together
anyway. What is so bad with sleeping in the same room together? Might as well
since you're spending so many hours with him anyway. Become ramen-profitable
then move in somewhere else!

Still, a great article that serves value to the community since many of us
will use AirBnB sooner or later.

------
shii
Cool story bro/Airbnb team.

~~~
zenspunk
Yeah, this is a bit suspicious.

Do you have proof, OP? Pictures?

------
athan
totally a fake article. all it needs is a "he was Nigerian".

~~~
GreenTomato
This is so funny to my partner and I. I wish it was fake and I had my $360
back!

I could put a link to the dude's airbnb profile. I feel like he screwed me and
failed to disclose a material defect, but still I'm not sure.

~~~
DrJ
`He does give us back $160 dollars`

$500 - $160 = $340.

Basic Math might be why you guys are low on money fyi.

~~~
GreenTomato
I paid a dude with a truck $20 to move our stuff there. Douche bag.

~~~
DrJ
$500 - $20 - $160 = $320. even less.

~~~
GreenTomato
-500 rent -20 truck cost +160 rent refund \------ $360

------
Hisoka
You should've stayed and recorded the whole ordeal. Would've been an
incredible story to tell to journalists afterwards

~~~
calvin
People get scammed all the time; this is newsworthy here only because it
indirectly involves a Y Combinator startup. I doubt you'd find another
journalist interested in the story.

I feel for the people in the situation, but you have to use common sense
particularly when you're using up the bulk of your runway in one payment. Part
of business is sizing people up and making a decision about whether to trust
them or not -- and when you make bad decisions there are consequences you have
to live with.

------
drivebyacct2
Airbnb as a means to a business end and cash outside the system meant to
protect you in cases where things can easily go wrong? And no handling of the
situation except to run from the roaches? Business is a tough place,
especially if you only have two months worth of money ahead of you...

------
ruby_on_rails
lol, I can't believe you posted this for the hn trolls. LOL, I am giggling so
bad they downvoted one guy for being humorous, but the disrespectful trolls go
unabated. I love HN more trolls here than 4chan. Only thing missing is nudy
pictures to distract the trolls.

Ohh and gl in austin.

~~~
GreenTomato
I think some people are just jealous our startup is getting traction.

I can't believe people are thinking it's fake. Its funny.

I am going to leave the thread now and get back to work. I was just mad and
wanted to share. It made me feel better.

