
OnHub - ropiku
https://on.google.com/hub/
======
astrocyte
My biggest issue with this is that Google wants to inject a piece of hardware
into my home that acts as the gateway to my data. A device through which all :

> Incoming data runs through

> Internal data runs through

> Outgoing data runs through

And then wants to be vague about what data they will be pumping to their back-
end for analytics/data mining.

I have had a long standing proposal for home automation and I'm curious to
know, in this era of insecurity and people vacuuming up all your data, how
many of the tech minded people here would be interested in a device which
ensures your 'home automation' data stays in your home. This can be quite
clearly achieved in hardware and by having an out-of-band oversight controller
that literally will not allow certain data to exit the physical domain of your
home...

Cloud nonsense? It's called an application and a home automation application
doesn't need to run in someone's cloud...

Whose interested? I think it's about time this cloud foolishness for the sake
of monetizing someone else's data in an insecure manner come to an end.
Everyone loves to rant about 'disruption'... I feel its about time this data
monetization cloud bananza be disrupted.

~~~
astrocyte
I'm glad that people found this to be a point of significance. I've worked in
the commercial networking hardware industry for some years and shelved several
consumer ideas due to a lack of interest in security/privacy.

I have watched over many years as this 'cloud' software bonanza has eclipsed
the tech industry. It went away from its original intent a long time ago and
now is used as the holy-grail method of :

> ensuring (rent) is always paid for service(s) people should OWN

> vacuuming up and selling people's data.

I have several projects on my plate. However, I have a solid one for securing
people's data when it comes to the IoT movement (in hardware)... It revolves
around the same hardware/technology that the industry uses to scrape and
funnel your data except the home user will now have it at their disposal as
well.

Users should have 100% control of their data. If someone wants to 'monetize'
it or use it to 'improve' their platform, the user should be rightfully paid
for the opportunity to do so.

Disruption? Yeah, I think it's time. The foolishness has gotten far too long
in the tooth.

.. And the backwards thing about it is: there are simple and straight forward
ways to secure data (in hardware). It's only because everyone in the industry
wants to ship your data all over the place and data-mine the snot out of it
that things are as insecure as they are.

The very (loop-hole) or (door) that is used to funnel/mine/monetize/cloudify
data is the very one used as an attack vector. Complicating the crap out of
things at that point defeats the whole purpose.... Get rid of the door all
together and the home is the least of all places where you should be exposing
yourself.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
I agree with the idea that the best protecting n for privacy is to make it
expensive to snoop - it's worked for thousands of years so far.

My concern is _how_ to make the benefits of this huge amount of data (medical
information, travel etc) possible while charging the other use.

It's just - how - does one attach the metadata and enforce the lolicensing?

~~~
astrocyte
Therein lies the 'product' ... I'm working on several projects so I wasn't shy
to put the general idea of this one out there... It's one of many things I
feel passionately are going to be changed by disruptive paradigm shifts ahead.

That being said, you come up w/ the 'solution' and you'll have your
'product'... I already have a general architecture/approach outlined for
myself. Create one and, from the looks of the interest here, you'll have an
audience to buy it.

Also, with the scale and depth of hacks occurring around the world, you'll
soon have an even broader audience.

If you get funded, look me up ;). I'll be looking for work in the coming
months =P.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
I'm wondering if / how the identity problem, blockchain proof of physical
ownership and ...

Well, firstly applications should stop thinking they are CoW - data is
something that gets passed in and operated on.

Secondly data operations should be side effect free - and distributed, so that
we can ask for processing- in many ways I would expect not to share my data
but to accept payment in return for some slice of processing someone wants

This may work ok, and generally the things we want (social networks) will be
fine with local data sharing - facebooks walled garden would have to be
replaced with open protocol (ie AOL -> SMTP) and no idea how to achieve that.

So im not setting the world on fire here. But I think the shape of future is
clear - just getting there ...

------
andrewla
From [1]

    
    
      Get started
    
      Welcome! To set up your OnHub, you’ll also need:
      Google account
      Android or iOS device
      Broadband connection
    

Google account? That seems like an unnecessary requirement for a router.

[1] [https://on.google.com/hub/support/#get-
started](https://on.google.com/hub/support/#get-started)

~~~
endtime
(Disclaimer: I work for the same former-division-of-Google-and-now-Alphabet-
subsidiary that built this, though I don't work on OnHub.)

I think you need an account for cloud-based configuration, credential sharing,
etc. Maybe it's not for everyone, but I think it makes sense as a product. I
highly doubt they added a Google account requirement to improve ad targeting.

~~~
andresmanz
Thanks, but shouldn't these features be optional? I still don't get why I
_need_ a Google Account.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
The router is cloud configured from your mobile device, that is how it works.

Some cloud services for the device are actually optional. But AFAIK you still
need a Google Account.

Here is the help page on the topic of data collection and privacy:

[https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6246642?hl=en&ref_to...](https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6246642?hl=en&ref_topic=6246470&vid=1-635755221172142181-18127440739027856314)

And see also, how to set a whole bunch of privacy settings:

[https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6279845?vid=1-635755...](https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6279845?vid=1-635755221172142181-18127440739027856314#change)

Disclaimer: I work on the project. I am not a spokesperson or legal or
marketing, or anything like that.

~~~
hobarrera
> The router is cloud configured from your mobile device, that is how it
> works.

How do I configure a router if I need an internet connection to configure it?
Sounds like a circular dependency issue.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Out of box configuration of the device is done without the need for Internet
access.

Also, these days a good % of customers are walking around with an Internet
connection in their hands, separate from their home connection.

~~~
0x0
Does it mean that you can set it up without a Google Account, then? Or does it
let you create one (without being set up for the internet) somehow?

------
adriancooney
Very interesting. From looking at the specs, it looks like they're packaging a
server and marketing it as a router. The configuration app is a _very_ nice
touch, routers have always a pain to configure. I'd love to stick this in my
apartment (even though I can only receive a maximum of 10mb/s).

As a side note, I'm surprised this isn't marketed alongside the Nest branch.
It really has the look and feel of Nest products with the LEDs and the speaker
aesthetic. Also surprised this isn't an "Alphabet" product.

~~~
fweespeech
> routers have always a pain to configure

Eh? You must buy some shitty routers, no offense.

Compared to the rest of the market, paying $200 for a router isn't
competitive. It just is not worth it given Google's "eh-we-will-do-it-and-
stop-if-people-complain/sue" mindset.

\----

To Melvin, since I'm submitting to fast:

[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B013ALA9LA?ref=spks_0_0_2170510902&...](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B013ALA9LA?ref=spks_0_0_2170510902&qid=1439920378&pf_rd_p=2170510902&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_s=desktop-
auto-sparkle&pf_rd_r=1GZB2QQ2TEH9Y8J6SS1B&pf_rd_i=TP-LINK)

> OnHub Wireless Router from Google and TP-LINK > by TP-LINK

1) You complain about the quality of TP-LINK products and think the solution
is....another TP-LINK product, likely measured in the same way.

2) Honestly, I cannot think of a consumer AP that would actually perform to
your expectations [apartment complex with 30+ competitors, saturating all the
channels] that would be priced at $300, let alone $200. I can tell you right
now, this Google AP won't do it either. Its "up to 1900mbps" for a reason.
Trust me. Buying this won't be a magical solution to your problems if you real
world gigabit speeds.

\----

To the folks complaining about "magical routers":

A) Buy something from Ubiquiti Networks.

B) Buy something you can flash with WRT firmware.

In both cases, as long as you understand the hardware specs, you'll get
something better than the norm. In Ubiquiti's case, I'm 99% sure it will
outperform a Google branded TP-Link AP unless Google is heavily subsidizing
and QAing everything.

~~~
melvinram
I have a 1 Gbps fiber connection at my apartment. I spent a good hour doing
research and finally bought this
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BUSDVBQ](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BUSDVBQ).
It had 4.5 stars at the time and was the highest rated router that Amazon
carried. I bought it, plugged it in and ran speedtest on it. Max speed I could
get was 250mb/s. Not bad but not the gb/s that was getting advertised.
Additional, over time, it would always slow down to 10-50mb/s. I called TP-
Link and they said this was likely the best it'll do and the advertised speeds
are in an interference free lab environment.

If OnHub fixes that second problem as they claim to, that would be more than
enough reason for me to spend the $200. If they can get higher than 250mb/s
speed by optimizing around the congestion, $200 will be well worth the spend.

~~~
datasage
I was in the same situation as you. Same Router too.

I could actually get close to 1 Gbps with the stock firmware. But it was
unstable, requiring a reset every other day. I used an open source firmware,
but it didn't contain the NAT offload module, so I would not be able to get
over 200-250 Mbps. (This was is all wired, not wireless).

Since I had a wifi access point, I ended up switching to an Ubiquity Edgemax
router and haven't had any problems since.

Not really a fan of TP-Link.

~~~
Someone1234
Here's the thing about TP-Link: They're a "good enough" manufactur. Meaning if
you care about something, don't buy a TP-Link, but if you don't care that much
and just need it to basically work "good enough" (e.g. WiFi for your mom's
house) then they're fine.

I got a cheap TP-Link repeater. It works fine, nothing special, no bells or
whistles. But for the price it was a good buy.

~~~
dublinben
TP-Link are hardly a manufacturer of "good enough" products. Their $100 Archer
C7 router is the top recommendation on TheWirecutter for over a year.[0] Their
$75 Archer C5 is also the top rated AC1200 router in _every single category_
on SmallNetBuilder.[1] It beats out more expensive models from all the bigger
name manufacturers.

[0] [http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-
router/](http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/)

[1]
[http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/router/result/1...](http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/tools/rankers/router/result/1971-tplink-
archerc5)

------
impish19
So what does this device primarily do that I need right now? Just throttling
internet for certain devices and prioritizing others? I'm not even entirely
sure what 'uses smart software to find the best WiFi connection' means. What's
the value prop here given the device costs $200? It's not like it can better
your internet somehow.

~~~
ejdyksen
It has a 3rd radio that monitors the channels you _aren 't_ currently using to
see if any of them are better. The first two radios in the device can't switch
without dropping connections, so they can't go hunting for new channels once
the AP is turned on.

My Airport Extreme chooses channels automatically at boot time, then never
again. This is fine for my house though, because my neighbors are reasonably
far away.

At work, our Meraki AP has this kind of 3rd radio, and we get very good
performance in a terrible RF environment, where lots of other equipment (from
Apple and Ubiquiti) has failed.

~~~
kuschku
Which is a standard feature in a lot of other routers, too, like the Fritz!Box
7490.
[http://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7490/](http://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7490/)

Google is doing nothing special here.

~~~
ejdyksen
I don't see anything on the spec sheets for the Fritz!Box 7490 that show it
has more than 2 radios, like most dual band APs out there today.

Google's spec sheet [1] specifically has 3 radios:

[http://i.imgur.com/x7CMktb.png](http://i.imgur.com/x7CMktb.png)

The first two radios do MIMO 3x3, and the third radio just has 1 antenna
(since it isn't serving client traffic).

While this isn't completely new, it's definitely not common, especially for a
consumer-grade AP/router.

[1]: [https://on.google.com/hub/#specs](https://on.google.com/hub/#specs)

~~~
kuschku
The Fritz!Box 7490 has 3 radios, for exactly this purpose. That’s how it
supports automated channel search without disconnecting users, and how it is
able to provide 1.3Gbps via WiFi.

~~~
ejdyksen
If it does have 3 radios, that's awesome. They should make that much more
explicit. I've looked all over their site, and I can't find anything that
confirms this. Everything on their website just references plain old
simultaneous dual-band with MIMO antennas.

For me, at least, a 3rd radio will be on the list for my next AP, so I'll take
a close look at this one, too.

~~~
kuschku
Well, they claimed it. I am not sure if they do have one, but switching
channels and empty-channel-autodiscovery without disconnecting is a feature in
the version that I have.

The issue is just that AVM produces different versions of the Fritz!Box for
every ISP, so some have more storage, or more radios than others.

------
arihant
OK, I'm trying really hard to figure out the $199 price tag. My cheap as dirt
N+ router works pretty darn well connecting 12-15 devices at my home. I almost
never had problems in years with it.

All the smart services Google offers, work through cloud, like Cloud Print.
Not through a router like Airport express. Even Android Wear now supports Wifi
so having BLE isn't that attractive to me. All the smart features that can
happen with BLE and Wifi combined are always better offered with phone. So I
don't see home automation/IoT benefit here either. Phone is a better hub. So
what's exactly the point here? The only thing I can think of is security
patches from Google. But $199 is very steep for that.

I know it has a bunch of smart engineering and more antennas. But I don't know
anyone having connectivity problems that are related to their routers.

~~~
adventured
There's no reason to buy this device for $200.

It's the equivalent of Amazon's Fire phone. It's richly priced, and does very
little feature wise to justify its high price. It'll flop accordingly.

$49 or $99 (max) was the correct price point. They have to beat or match
routers on price (high quality routers having become dirt cheap), or otherwise
provide astounding new capabilities (which this doesn't).

------
mrtalented
I've been dogfooding the device for about 4 months now. Before, I was using
the previous generation Airport Extreme. It is far better - the app makes it
super simple to set up, the signal seems to be stronger throughout my
apartment, and I love having a convenient way to monitor / admin it remotely
(via the app). Well worth the price imo.

>inb4 shill :)

~~~
kingnight
Hi,

Could you elaborate on what you believe to be far better than the extreme.
AExtreme was super simple to set up and has an app too. Did you position your
OnHub differently than your extreme?

I have had an Extreme for years but recently moved and found some issues with
connectivity in the new location so I've been weighing options.

~~~
mrtalented
Just as simple to set up as the Extreme if you're on iOS, and even simpler on
Android.

I placed it in the same spot where the Extreme was formerly located; my signal
strength at the other end of the apartment and outside is noticeably stronger,
perhaps due to the multi-directional antenna.

------
wnevets
The biggest positive about a company like google releasing a router is the
security updates. Most consumer routers out there are left to rot and you're
forced to buy a one when its exploited.

~~~
busterarm
You mean like phones locked on old versions of Android once Google moves on to
new ones?

~~~
shawn-furyan
And don't they have Brillo? Having this without Brillo duplicates
(particularly security related) effort and signals that Google doesn't
consider Brillo to be acceptable for use in its own products.

I imagine going w/ Brillo would have set back the release schedule, but
Brillo, if their vision for both products were to come to pass, is by far the
more consequential product. Also... The wireless router market isn't exactly
teaming with competitive one-upsmanship. They could have waited 0.5-2+ years
without losing significant ground.

Note: Brillo is the stripped down variant of Android aimed at IoT (internet of
things) devices that Google announced at the last Google I/O. This is an ideal
early device for Brillo, since it's relatively powerful and isn't battery
powered, so constraints aren't quite as high as they are in many IoT devices,
yet it shares much of the problem space.

[https://developers.google.com/brillo/?hl=en](https://developers.google.com/brillo/?hl=en)

[edited 6:39PM UTC to add the Note]

~~~
Shooti
[http://nextmarket.co/blogs/smarthomeweekly/29309313-google-i...](http://nextmarket.co/blogs/smarthomeweekly/29309313-google-
iot-os-brillo-effort-reports-to-barratt-targeting-home-routers)

Going by how closely this matches the leaks, I think the onHub actually is
running Brillo. They've just chosen not to mention it just yet.

~~~
shawn-furyan
Well, if that's the case then that's good. I had a line originally that had a
parenthetical like "(or if they are using it, they should be announcing so
with much fanfare, at least in the technical sections of the page)", but it
got cut due to how cumbersome it made the sentence.

Thanks for the heads up. I genuinely hope that are using Brillo and using the
experience to improve the OS. I think that Google is biting off a LOT with
Brillo, and I don't think that they can afford to fragment their IoT efforts.

------
christop
The only privacy link I could find on the page was Google's generic privacy
policy. Is there more information somewhere?

With its "advanced and always-evolving security features", I'm wondering
whether and what information Google would be gathering about my local network
and my network traffic.

~~~
christop
From the Terms of Service linked from the support site
[https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6270620?hl=en&ref_to...](https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6270620?hl=en&ref_topic=6246512)

"You agree that Google may collect and use technical and related information,
including but not limited to information about your computer and/or mobile
device, operating system, peripherals, applications, connected devices,
network traffic, and data use to facilitate the provision of the Software and
Services, including support and other related services."

It goes on to state "The OnHub Privacy FAQ describes the categories of data
collected and how you can use privacy settings to change what data is
collected by the Services."

But I couldn't find the OnHub Privacy FAQ and
[https://support.google.com/onhub/search?q=privacy](https://support.google.com/onhub/search?q=privacy)
oddly says "Your search - privacy - did not match any answers in OnHub Help".

~~~
jaboutboul
I wouldn't trust Google with this much access to my internet traffic.

~~~
dvlsg
I would if I got Google fiber speeds. For this, though? Probably not.

------
dazbradbury
Interesting - but I'm not sure what this gives me over something in a similar
price range, for example:

[http://www.amazon.com/RT-AC68U-Wireless-AC1900-Dual-Band-
Gig...](http://www.amazon.com/RT-AC68U-Wireless-AC1900-Dual-Band-Gigabit-
Router/dp/B00FB45SI4)

Presumably either you know something about routers and want to enable QoS,
install your own firmware, or use some other advanced feature - and you spend
money on a decent router. Or you don't, and use whatever your ISP provides
(which if it's bad, you blame the ISP for without thinking twice).

So perhaps this is the new router bundled with Google Fibre?

~~~
thrownaway2424
The AC68U is the perfect AP for the discerning user who enjoys going into the
basement every two weeks to reboot things.

~~~
dvlsg
I've had mine for over a year now, and I've only had to reboot it 3 times - 4
if you count the time I unplugged it and moved to a new city.

~~~
CrazedGeek
I've had mine for a similar time frame and I've never needed to restart it,
except to install updates. My cable modem goes out more often.

~~~
seanalltogether
My biggest issue with this router has simply been the media server, however
the wifi connections and vpn have always worked.

------
sixdimensional
Just interesting to note that the form factor is quite similar to Amazon Echo
(slim cylindrical tube), although the function is completely different (router
vs "personal assistant device").

~~~
anujdeshpande
It has a speaker built in. So they'll have that with Google Cast Audio, Google
Now, etc. I am pretty sure they have a taken a leaf or two out of Amazons
book.

~~~
dragonwriter
The speaker is to talk to your phone, not to you. (Its a low-powered speaker
that's used to communicate to a mobile device for configuration.)

------
anonymuse
From the design goals outlined in the FAQ, it seems clear to me that Google
expects there to be a great deal more bandwidth hungry devices in the home
speaking first to each other, and then out to the WAN, in the near term.

Including Bluetooth, Weave, and Thread, along with up to 128 devices, gives me
a rough sense of the scale of connected devices they anticipate in each home.
Given that it also has a reasonable compute capabilities and cooling as one of
the highlights, I think it's far to say that it could do a lot of processing
on its own before reaching back home to the GOOG DCs.

~~~
sixdimensional
...likely part of their "Internet of Things" strategy.

------
twoodfin
Hard to believe there's a huge market for $199 WiFi routers, no matter how
sophisticated.

On the other hand, even a sprinkling of installations is probably pretty
valuable if it allows Google to derive more accurate ISP performance numbers.
There's got to be some benefit in having thousands of devices directly
connected to the ISP's network on the consumer end 24/7.

~~~
chrisrhoden
If you're not spending at least $100 on a wireless router, you're probably
giving up significant amounts of the performance you're paying for from your
ISP. Routers are computers. The $40 units just can't handle modern usage
patterns (multiple phones / tablets / computers with relatively high speed
caps) very well.

It's my single biggest recommendation when people complain about the speed of
the Internet in their home. More often than not, they're underspending on
their networking equipment, not their ISP package.

~~~
dragonwriter
> More often than not, they're underspending on their networking equipment,
> not their ISP package.

Often, their networking equipment is part of the ISP package because the ISP
wants to provide a seamless experience, and doesn't even provide easy access
to the information necessary to use your own equipment.

~~~
RobotCaleb
I don't even know what this means. Are you saying that your ISP doesn't allow
you to plug standard ethernet devices into their lines? I own my own modem and
router and do what I want with them. I don't follow you.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Are you saying that your ISP doesn't allow you to plug standard ethernet
> devices into their lines?

Using your own router rather than the ISPs preconfigured router requires more
than just plugging a personally-purchased router into their line (even in the
simple case where you aren't using the ISPs bundled cable/phone/internet
service that's all delivered through a common system.)

At least in the simple case, someone with modest technical skill can figure
out how to get that information relatively easily, but most ISP customers
aren't even modestly technical.

~~~
wging
When I've had a cable modem, all I've had to do is connect my router to the
modem via Ethernet. When I've had modemless service via Ethernet jack, all
I've had to do is connect my router to the wall Ethernet jack.

So what are you talking about? Purchasing your own cable modem? Or something
else that I've never had to do?

~~~
marvy
If you have DSL, the modem and the router are the same box, so if you want
your own, you have to throw out the one the ISP gave you, and configure yours
by yourself. In practice, I bet you could just call up the ISP if you're
having trouble, but I agree that an ISP has an incentive to give you a good
unit to start with.

~~~
mikeash
I haven't had DSL in a while, but when I did, the ISP just provided a modem
with a phone line connector and a single ethernet connector. There's no
requirement for DSL to bundle the modem and router.

~~~
dragonwriter
Sure, lots of DSL ISPs used to do that in the old days before WiFi was a
common consumer demand, and some still might.

Now, the ISPs that are using DSL (e.g., AT&T U-Verse which uses VDSL2 where it
isn't FTTP) seem (from what I've experienced and seen with other people that
have DSL-based service) to deploy all-in-one modem/routers (and, when they
have services like TV and Phone as well as basic internet, to run them through
the supplied all-in-one box, as well.)

> There's no requirement for DSL to bundle the modem and router.

Sure, its not a theoretical requirement, just practically what ISPs seem to do
now.

~~~
mikeash
Gotcha, I thought it was being presented as some sort of technical constraint.

An interesting variant on all of this is FiOS, which is often brought into the
house on coax which plugs into their router. It's possible to buy something
that will bridge the coax to ethernet, but they're pretty hard to find.

I think this _might_ be going away as they increase speeds. I originally had
the coax, but then they replaced it with ethernet coming in to the house. I
kept their router anyway because it actually seems to be pretty good.

------
tibbon
I'm just curious _why_ so many wireless routers are flakey, need frequently
reset, have connection issues, etc. That, and what Google is actually doing
differently than other high quality routers.

~~~
orky56
Most the consumer hardware networking industry is based on costs. Components
are sourced based on the lowest cost and quality tends to be prioritized for
SMB/enterprise products. Typically, routers are relatively inelastic in demand
and industrial design, brand recognition, and price point make up the decision
criteria for consumers. Testing is mostly spent on integrating all these
various components and very little is spent on general UI. I'm a bit wary on
Google's approach unless they have some great QA process or are bringing
higher quality components to consumers at a lower price point. (Used to work
for one of the big consumer networking companies)

~~~
wmf
Or they're selling this router at a loss by accounting the firmware as $0 so
they can give the customer more for their money.

------
daveloyall
> _For initial setup, the Google On app on a device with Android 4.0 or higher
> or iOS 7 or higher is required._

Bah! What's wrong with my Thinkpad?

~~~
edgyswingset
Adding support for Linux/OSX/Windows is probably not a priority for them to
get this thing off the ground.

~~~
josteink
How about, eh, you know... Web based? No need for this platform-specific
bullshit.

Last I heard Google was pretty good at creating good web applications.

~~~
MichaelGG
Perhaps it uses some local comms to bootstrap it. Like Bluetooth or sound
waves.

~~~
daveloyall
Yes, it says somewhere on the site that it uses soundwaves to share the
initial key with your device.

But that's NOT an excuse to make the device depend on the Mobile ecosystem.

If it can play a code on the speaker, it can just talk. In English. Via
thirty-six audio files: a.wav, b.wav, ... 9.wav. Ok, thirty-seven recordings--
can't forget welcome_to_your_new_router_your_key_is.wav. :)

~~~
MichaelGG
I'd wager that whatever they're doing, it's far more reliable than reading out
English letters and doing speech recognition on it. Accomplishing the key
exchange might not have been reliable in all browsers.

~~~
daveloyall
... I meant, let the device speak directly to the user. "Your key is alpha
nine hotel victor ..."

The goal was some sort of manual setup.

------
angryasian
From the comments in this thread its pretty clear that most consumers probably
don't understand QOS/prioritization. While most routers allow manual
configuration if Google's router can automate this task this is a huge
benefit. Imagine if you're using your network for wifi calls and others are
just browsing the net. Your calls should clearly take priority over other
traffic. The same goes for gaming etc. The hardware specs are incredible for a
home router at this price point.

I'm really looking forward to the intelligence aspect and how much it can
actually improve the overall network performance. The nice integrated app to
share passwords and see who's on the network is just a nice to have feature.

edit: appears to be sold out on google store, and amazon is only selling the
blue model

------
tomkinstinch
Interesting that it has a TPM[1]. Any guesses about the uses/implications of
that?

I wonder if it can be configured to act solely as an access point--I already
have a ubnt EdgeRouter Lite, but wouldn't mind replacing my aging access
point.

EDIT: It does support bridge mode[2].

1\. [https://on.google.com/hub/#specs](https://on.google.com/hub/#specs)

2\.
[https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6240987?hl=en&ref_to...](https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6240987?hl=en&ref_topic=6246470&vid=1-635755165356935124-14285033767779996327)

~~~
tjohns
Just a guess, but the TPM is probably for secure boot, just like on a
Chromebook. Since security is one of the selling points.

[https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-
docs/...](https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/chromiumos-design-
docs/verified-boot)

~~~
tomkinstinch
That would make sense. We'll have to wait and see if the OnHub has a "dev"
switch like Chromebooks. Hopefully it will be possible to put custom software
on it (even if the Google software is just fine, the flexibility would be
nice).

------
blixt
I wonder if these will be capable of lending spare (encrypted) bandwidth to
anonymous mobile devices. I.e., can Google Fi[1] users benefit from Wi-Fi when
walking past a house that has an OnHub running?

[1] [https://fi.google.com/about/](https://fi.google.com/about/)

~~~
rtkwe
Every time a company has tried to do open wifi sharing there's been a lot of
kickback. Mostly because it's opt out instead of opt in but that's put a big
damper on anyone doing similar things.

~~~
xur17
What I really want to see is an 'opt-in' service that allows you to use other
peoples' networks if you opt-in to sharing your's. It should be extremely easy
to opt-in, and a message should be displayed asking you to opt-in when you try
to sign in to someone else's network.

Also, the guest network traffic needs to be sent over a vpn, so you are not
responsible for it / don't have to deal with people torrenting, etc on your
network. And it should be low priority traffic.

~~~
rtkwe
That's the problem they need to solve, opt-in and making it easy and visible
enough to get enough people to enable it to make it actually useful.

A VPN or similar system to make sure you're not getting accused of things
their free wifi is being used for too is a good idea. Not sure if anyone has
done that yet in the various implementations.

------
ghola2k5
Coolest thing I see is on the NewEgg page where it says it's "weave" ready,
and you can see the Zigbee/Bluetooth radios. It's a router, and it's the smart
home hub.

~~~
bizzleDawg
I'm really surprised this part didn't generate more attention from the HN
crowd. Currently IoT devices always end up having some kind of protocol
adaptor unit, like wifi->zigbee and it sucks!

As far as I know, the Almond+ is the only other router with 802.15.4 support.

~~~
jessaustin
I've been quite pleased with my Almond+. Certainly more than I have been with
other Kickstarter stuff.

------
noodly
> To set up your OnHub, you’ll also need:

> Google Account

No, thanks. SpyHub would be more adequate name.

I would reconsider it when I could put my own software on it, that would not
require untrusted third-party accounts.

~~~
eliben
I suppose you should stay far away from Google Fiber then, as well. And
anything else done by the evil Google. Much better to keep with the good guys
like Comcast. They will never, _ever_ spy on you.

~~~
somedudethere
Thats a false dichotomy. There have always been fiber providers, its just that
Google Fiber is the "sexy" one that people look to for salvation instead of
locally campaigning for fiber (which has been successful in quite a number of
cities across the USA).

~~~
pluma
This reminds me of how (in some parts of Europe at least) a lot of communities
are trying to buy back the municipal water and power plants that were
originally privatised "because privatisation benefits the economy". Turns out
creating a (new) monopoly by selling all the public infrastructure to the same
company isn't actually good for anyone (other than that company).

------
cyanbane
This is one of those things that I would never use however I think is great
for the majority of people out there that I know that probably have not opened
up their router's interface since setting it up (years ago). Pushed (forced)
updates is a good thing in some cases.

An interesting thought is also what if Google starts making use of that 4gb by
prepushing/caching sites that you visit daily down to the device for
instantaneous retrieval.

Another interesting idea is that this probably comes with a nice UI for people
to see their inbound/outbound traffic for a given timespan. My guess is a lot
of people (ie non Y! news readers) don't configure their current routers for
this. Once they start seeing an exact number, it will be interesting to see
how it compares to their ISP if it is similar to Comcast and has caps and
overage fees for metered cities.

------
mmanfrin
I'm not sure what the advantage of this is over any other router, other than
vague 'built for all the ways you wifi'. Simplicity is nice, maybe this is
trying to duplicate Nest-like success in the router realm, but people don't
actively fiddle with routers like they do thermostats.

~~~
wmf
Automatic security patches.

------
methehack
My read is that this about Google Fiber. You get a 1Gb connection but your
router gets you like 80Mb/sec... that's a bummer, this fixes it (if it works).

------
mostafah
on.google.com/hub for a product named OnHub? Does that mean more OnXXX
products are on the way?

~~~
andrewstuart2
Maybe O is for On.

------
rthomas6
So can I use it to do all the nerdy things I use my DD-WRT flashed router for?
Like QoS, adblocking at the router, a separate guest WiFi, VPN support, MAC
address filtering, etc?

~~~
therealmarv
you are not the target audience!

~~~
scrumper
Well maybe they are... If it can do all that without learning DD-WRT, then
I'll buy it. I understand all those things and want most of them enabled at
home, I just don't have the time or motivation to learn the configuration
files despite being a programmer who's perfectly capable of it. The interface
should be distinct from the capability.

~~~
rthomas6
You are thinking of OpenWRT, I believe. DD-WRT is pretty much flash and go. Ad
blocking is a bit of a pain, but the rest of the things I named have a GUI.

------
exelius
Hopefully this device actually has the CPU power to run QOS at more than
50mbps... the same can't be said of any other consumer router in the $200
price range.

~~~
rattray
Can you explain that? What's QOS, how much CPU does it take to run well, and
why don't other expensive routers have the power for fast internet?

~~~
freehunter
QOS is quality of service. It lets you prioritize certain traffic over others.
So if I'm running BitTorrent but trying to watch Netflix, I can set up a QOS
rule to prioritize Netflix over the BitTorrent. Netflix might only need 4Mbps
but a torrent can take 100% of my connection. So I would set a QOS rule to
make sure that Netflix gets what it needs then the torrent can have the rest.

Inspecting every packet as it runs through the network takes a lot of
processing power. Many router manufacturers put just enough hardware in the
box to handle fast connections, but not enough to handle complicated QOS rules
on top of that.

~~~
exelius
Looks like Google is doing the same; that CPU probably isn't fast enough to
handle NAT and QoS at the speeds the WiFi radio is capable of; much less a
gigabit Google Fiber connection. While I understand consumers aren't going to
spend $500 on a router, it's a bit disappointing to see Google engage in the
same behavior that Linksys, D-link, et al do.

------
nodesocket
OnHub looks nice, but honestly the Apple AirPort Time Capsule is a great
device, and also gives you Time Machine backups. The only feature I've found
missing, is VPN site-to-site and VPN client connections.

~~~
smackfu
It is missing SNMP or any kind of traffic monitoring. The WAN to LAN speed is
also a bit lacking if you have a very fast connection.

------
fraXis
I see no mention of being able to use 2 or 3 of these things in an Wi-Fi
extender type of scenario that I can do with my current Airport Extreme
routers.

~~~
tomkinstinch
Their FAQ suggests increasing coverage by having one unit act as the router
(doing NAT), and having others act as (bridged) access points:

[https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6275097?vid=1-635755...](https://support.google.com/onhub/answer/6275097?vid=1-635755167092747292-3029280237307171546)

~~~
fraXis
This method seems really cumbersome compared to the Airport Extreme and their
wireless bridging method.

~~~
izacus
Ehm... that's pretty much the exact same method you use on Airport Extreme if
you care about speeds (one being the NAT machine, others APs connected with
cables).

If you're doing the wireless bridge you're trading off a lot of wireless
bandwidth (and added noise) just to get data from one Airport to another. Far
from an optimal setup.

------
jamesblonde
In the Clommunity project, designed for the world's largest wireless community
network (Guifi.net), we have developed a Linux Distro, called cloudy, for
these kind of boxes: [http://cloudy.community/](http://cloudy.community/)

We are using the boxes to provide "cloud" services to other users in the Guifi
network (30K+ deployments). We currently have 20 rolled out with another 20
coming soon. We're expecting 100+ by the end of next year.

It supports different hardware profiles, but Intel Atom and ARM are quite
popular.

~~~
gregpilling
could you make a small local cloud with that, in Arizona?

~~~
jamesblonde
Yeah sure. It's built using decentralized (gossip-based) protocols such as
Serf ([https://www.serfdom.io/](https://www.serfdom.io/)) and you just need
one IP to act as a bootstrap.

------
imarios
Looks like a direct competitor to Apple's airport series:
[http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME918/airport-
extreme](http://www.apple.com/shop/product/ME918/airport-extreme)

~~~
hashgowda
Nope. It is competitor for Apple TV which is going to be the hub for Apple
Homekit devices.

------
binarysolo
$200 for the unit -- so it's competing on the higher end of consumer routers
against offerings such as Apple's Airport. They seemed to have paid a lot of
attention to human-friendly UI/UX though.

Would probably wait for reviews to see what's up.

~~~
zf00002
At $200 you're in the price range of just building yourself a pfsense box.

~~~
tomkinstinch
You could, but at that price it would most likely be a full desktop running
pfsense, and who wants that kind of power draw at home? Comparable low-power
pfsense boxes are about the same price, or even more for the ones advertised
on the pfsense website[1].

The OnHub spec page mentions a draw of <36W[2], which is more than I would
have guessed, but it's still less than most desktops. For a device running
24/7 in a residential setting, it makes sense to be low-power.

1\. [http://store.pfsense.org/SG-2220/](http://store.pfsense.org/SG-2220/)

2\. [https://on.google.com/hub/#specs](https://on.google.com/hub/#specs)

~~~
zf00002
I wouldn't really call it a full desktop. Intel DQ77KB mini-itx, lga1155 with
dual Intel nics is what we use for $100 off Amazon. Pair it with a cheap
Celeron and some used laptop memory off ebay. At the wall ~15W.

~~~
tomkinstinch
That's not bad! I'm surprised you're able to get the power consumption so low.

With a case, power supply, CPU, heatsink, and RAM the price starts to approach
the OnHub though, without any Wi-Fi nics.

The DQ77KB is a cool little board. Have you tried running one as a VPN
endpoint?

~~~
zf00002
Right now I have one of them with pfsense and its openvpn server running. But
that one was upgraded to an Intel i5-3470T so it pulls about ~25W. We went
with that cpu for it's AES stuff but it turns out that pfsense (or maybe its
freebsd, not sure) can't completely take advantage of it. But otherwise it
works great for a vpn that we use when we're outside and on mobile.

Another with a Celeron G1620 is running as an vsphere server. I really love
the board.

------
VikingCoder
Huh... Just thinking about what a smart router COULD do...

What if this thing allowed you to punch holes in the firewall through the app,
wherever you are? That'd be fairly nifty...

And what if it had VPN built in to the router and the app? That'd be nice as
well...

Viewing access log files remotely?

Hmmm - what if it has parental locks? Like, a whitelist of websites for THIS
device (kid's tablet), but dad's phone and mom's phone can do anything...

I also can't help but wonder if this thing has Google Fi BUILT IN to it.
Meaning, anyone driving by on your street gets to send some packets through
your router with really fast switching.... If you allow it. And if you have
Google Fiber (gigabit), why wouldn't you allow it?

Oh, and the other one that occurs to me... With all of those antennas... Do
you think they might actually be able to estimate your radial location,
relative to the device? To some amount of accuracy? Might be interesting.
Probably estimate distance, too... Put them together...

If I were slightly evil, I'd be thinking about designing a router that I could
market to small businesses. Walk in to your Starbucks, and the guy behind the
counter automatically sees your picture, and your regular orders up on the
screen...

------
jqueryin
I have to say it looks like they may have taken some liberties with the
product design a la Amazon Echo.

Before I read into the product specifications I was expecting an Echo
competitor via Google Now tech.

~~~
olympus
Agreed. It looks a little like a squatter Echo. Cylindrical, ring of light at
the top. But I suppose Amazon will avoid any legal action since it's pretty
tough to win a court case with the argument "they copied my cylinder."
Hopefully the different functionality of each device will keep any ugly legal
battles from ensuing.

But with the a computer embedded in this router along with a speaker and
bluetooth and zigbee radios this could be customized to offer a lot of the
features that the Echo offers (minus the voice control). I hope that doesn't
cause any problems.

~~~
johnhattan
About 80% of the space in the Amazon Echo is taken up by the speaker. The
Google router just has a little 3w speaker in it, so I don't think Google is
gonna be converting it into an entertainment device anytime soon.

------
Corrado
While this looks very interesting and I'm sure is great for a lot of people, I
think I'll stick to my Apple Extreme base station. It has pretty good software
for configuration and provides Time Machine support for my multiple OS X
machines in the house.

That said, I think that everyone on HN complaining about privacy and cost and
how you can "just install your own firmware" is completely missing the point
of the OnHub. Most people have a crappy router running insecure software and
does terrible things to the internet and never gets updated. OnHub fixes all
that and in a way that my Mom could actually install and use the thing. Almost
no other solution (besides maybe the Apple products) would be able to cover
all these bases.

So, I'm happy that someone (else) is finally making good hardware with easy to
use software. More power to Google and keep the good stuff coming!

------
thom_nic
This is definitely like the Nest in that it's an "entry" into the home,
clearly it has ambitions to be more than just a router.

On the surface, a $200 router doesn't even make sense. 99% of the time
congestion is probably not at the router/Wi-Fi level (any 5GHz wifi router
should do) but somewhere upstream (ISP or WAN latency.) If you have a very
large property there are plenty of routers already on the market with good
external antennas. Number of people who think "man the wifi in my house sucks"
is very small.

Clearly they're selling this as a boutique product (similar to Nest) with the
hopes of expanding it to perform other tasks, probably similar to Amazon Echo.
Heck it even looks like the Echo.

~~~
btmorex
Clearly, you don't live in a city. 2.4Ghz on any channel is nearly unusable in
my apartment (5Ghz fairs better I think because it penetrates obstructions
less easily). My laptop can currently detect >50 wifi networks.

------
so898
Only one LAN port? This reminds me of the HiWifi router which build by a
Chinese company. I still think this one LAN port design is terrible.

~~~
andrewstuart2
Well, a nice 8-port metal gigabit switch will only run you about $20. True, it
may be a lot harder or more expensive to do anything with port-specific VLAN
tagging, but hardware support for that using something like DD-WRT is spotty
anyway.

I'd also guess that the round design may play a part in that decision. It
would definitely be less aesthetically pleasing to have a wagon-wheel of
cables coming out of the base.

------
new2
Can anyone explain why a Router needs 4GB of storage ?

What do they mean by "OnHub has 4GB of storage space, so there’s plenty of
room for auto-updates and the latest software features." ? Is software for a
router that large ?

~~~
kevinSuttle
Let me tell you, if my Apple TV had any sort of storage, I'd be a lot happier.
Getting a little old streaming everything from "the CLOUD".

~~~
callumjones
The Apple TV has 8GB of storage, so when you start streaming a TV show or
movie it begins downloading the whole thing so internet interruptions don't
mess up your viewing.

~~~
kevinSuttle
Hm. I guess it's a UI issue. It always appears as if its loading/streaming.

------
Too
What a misleading video. When was the last time you got connection issues due
to your wireless router? Uninformed people are going to buy this and then plug
it in to their crappy 250kbps DSL and not notice any difference at all. The
video make it seem like this solves every connection problem ever, a video
will never ever buffer again! I would say, based on experience, the
probability of YouTube being down or overloaded while I stream a movie is
higher than the risk that I loose WiFi connection in my home, and yet my
router is 5+ years old and dirt cheap then.

------
webXL
The mobile Overview UI looks similar to Apple's Airport Utility. Looks like
they took the best part (the graph). Hopefully the UI is more straightforward.
Things got lost when Apple moved to version 6.0.

------
adamrights
The 13 antennas and form factor is kind of cool, but after that I'd rather
install OpenWrt and if going for home automation, my own server.

Wonder how rootable Google will leave it.

~~~
Natanael_L
I hope it will take after Chrome OS, not Chromecast, in that regard...

------
BufordTJustice
Just as a note, if range is really one of the selling points, I have found
Mikrotik's RB951 class routers to be relatively affordable and have excellent
range and features, for significantly less than OnHub ($20-80 for a good home
router). OpenWRT routers with a lot of the same features, and the ability to
boost range can also be sourced for even less.

~~~
SXX
Did Mikrotik stopped violate GPL already?

It's was big reason to not buy any of their hardware.

------
sangd
It's nice that we have Google ensure our TP-Link router to function correctly,
hopefully. I'm frustrated with my current TP-Link router since it often needs
a reset once in a while. Btw, should this design be changed because it looks
to me that the top is very good at collecting dust and dead bugs. I don't
expect to buy this and box it.

~~~
therealmarv
same experience here. I would never buy TP-Link again because of bad
experiences. Flashing dd-wrt on one of its routers helped but it was still
unstable from time to time. Well the same I said about LG phones (but having a
LG Nexus). Seems software can be really important.

------
yellowapple
This is actually cheaper than what my current router - a Linksys WRT1900AC -
is going for. On the other hand, said WRT1900AC was designed explicitly for
OpenWRT support (and is even advertised as being OpenWRT-compatible - which it
indeed is as of Chaos Calmer RC3), whereas OnHub's page makes zero mention of
installing custom firmware.

------
ketralnis
I had an original Google TV. They appear to have all but dropped that project,
and in the process my device has become _terrible_ to use. I don't know how it
actually got worse, but it did. I bought an Apple TV to replace it and I'm
reasonable happy with it.

I wouldn't buy first or even second gen hardware from Google.

------
chirau
It looks very polished, not sure of its distinct value preposition over other
routers currently on the market

~~~
techtalsky
Looks like the advantages as listed are: \- Very simple visual configuration
software \- Ability to view a graphical representation of device usage and
prioritize a device \- Ability to update the device without interrupting the
connection \- Sends setup information to Android devices via an audio tone

------
hobarrera
> We’re streaming and sharing in new ways our old routers were never built to
> handle. Meet OnHub, a new router from Google that’s built for all the ways
> you Wi-Fi.

Honestly, this is stupidly vague. How are modern routers failing us? This just
looks like a high-end router, with nothing groundbreaking.

------
jcfrei
Here in CH virtually everyone receives a modem/router combo for free from
their provider (ie. they borrow it to you). They are also usually
preconfigured - so you just need to plug them in. Is it the same in the US? I
guess at a 199$ price point this will be a tough sell.

~~~
jasonellis
Yes, it's the same in the US. ISPs provide a modem/router combo and charge
like $7 a month for it. The disadvantage is that the router portion of the
unit is usually very poor. AT&T is still giving out modem/router combos that
us 802.11b/g, not even n, much less ac. Purchasing a separate router lets you
use better wifi technology as well as enable useful features like QoS settings
that aren't available on the ISP-provided hardware.

~~~
djhworld
Why do you get charged $7 for it?

Here in the UK most providers seem to offer the router as a sign up bonus.

The disadvantage is that router is mostly cheap garbage, but it's effectively
yours once your contract starts, no rental/need to give back

------
thebouv
Privacy issues aren't even the first thing I worry about with OnHub.

What I worry about is it being another project from Google that dies and
leaves me with a brick cause it doesn't update any more. Or it is so
connected, that when they kill the backend services, then it is a brick.

------
bg0
Seems a little pricey. My TP-Link router was $45 and is amazing. I'm probably
missing something but $200 doesn't seem "worth it" at first glance when set up
really only consists of looking at the bottom of the router to find the WPA
Key.

~~~
tormeh
OnHub is made by TP-Link, it seems. I have a TP-Link and it has worked
flawlessly too.

------
JustSomeNobody
It speaks, but does it listen? (Have a microphone)?

~~~
erbdex
No.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
Oh, good.

------
philip1209
Do they allow you to configure DNS, or do they force Google DNS use like on
Chromecasts?

~~~
ironlady
Since it is a full router I'm sure you can change it, but on a side note you
can re-direct the chromecast DNS pretty easily too

[https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-
instant&ion=1&es...](https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-
instant&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=redirect%20chromecast%20dns&es_th=1)

------
thrillgore
It looks nice, but since there's more wired ethernet devices in my residence
than Wifi, it really doesn't fit an immediate need for me.

Still seeing native ZigBee support is awesome. Wonder if the OnHub provides an
interface to it.

------
EdSharkey
It seems like the moves by the FCC to closed source/keep proprietary the
baseband firmware on routers is a move to ensure backdoors and exploits always
exist on these wireless systems.

So, here's what I'd like Google, you tell me if this would be possible and I
might buy your hardware.

Could you sell me a wifi router with an open source baseband firmware that you
"own" and provide regular signed updates for to comply with the FCC rules? As
for the rest of what you have to offer, no thanks - I would need to flash your
firmware and run my own software on your router hardware. Thanks!

------
getdavidhiggins
Will be interesting to see if Tomato works on this
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_(firmware)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato_\(firmware\))

------
untog
About the only real improvement I'm seeing here is the automatic, silent
updates. That could be a lifesaver if a crucial bug were ever found.

Aside from that, eh. It looks good, I don't doubt that with that number of
antennas etc. it'll work well, but if anyone else is like me they've long
since forgotten what their router even is - it just sits there, doing its job,
and has done for years.

I find the intelligent NAS boxes far more interesting - I have a Synology box
that basically provides it's own cloud storage, download manager, etc.

~~~
londonsexplorer
Most people with old routers don't even realise the router is randomly bugging
out and slowing down your web page load speeds.

Fun fact: Old routers generally don't support WiFi power saving features. That
means your phone battery will drain waaay faster than it could if you had a
new router. Having WiFi switched on with a phone connected to a new router
will in fact generally increase battery life because it can use the cell radio
less often.

[http://www.techworld.com/mobile/a-guide-to-wi-fi-power-
save-...](http://www.techworld.com/mobile/a-guide-to-wi-fi-power-save-
technologies-4103/)

------
chinathrow
Why does this thing need an ambient light detector? Really? Since when should
infrastructure care what the environment looks like? Also TPM?

Can't wait for the teardown to find that there is a microphone in it.

~~~
ocb
Ever slept in a room with a wireless router before? Those flashing lights get
annoying.

~~~
MichaelGG
Pretty much any modern hardware. I bought a nice das keyboard only to find
that they don't know how to make lights on it. Instead of having some sort of
diffuser or screen to light up, like normal numlock indicators, this projects
light in a cone. At night, it projects a big circle on my ceiling. Emailed
them and they were flabbergasted this was a thing.

------
agumonkey
Not communicating by blinking lights is not a feature to me. Progressive
enhancement all you want, have a nice app for involved communication, but keep
some LEDs for core status please.

~~~
rattray
> OnHub uses a dimmable light ring that uses one of four color indicators to
> give you feedback.

~~~
agumonkey
Ha, I didn't get that message at all. So the emphasis was on 'not blinking',
the colored rim is the ~LED. My apologies.

------
stygiansonic
As some others have mentioned, the hardware for this unit is made by TP-LINK:

 _" To develop OnHub, Google partnered with network hardware maker TP-LINK.
Another model, built with ASUS, is coming later this year."_ [0]

0\. [http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/google-onhub-router-
aims-t...](http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/google-onhub-router-aims-to-make-
home-wi-fi-easy-reliable-1.3194948)

------
mike-cardwell
The market for this seems very small to me. Here in the UK, 99.9% of people
just plug in whatever their ISP give them. They're not going to buy some box
from Google to make their Internet faster. And even if they do, there's a good
chance it wasn't the quality of the WiFi that was their problem, so they're
just going to be pissed off at Google for taking their money and not fixing
anything.

------
vishalzone2002
Apart from having even more user data, I think if this gets to masses, it
places google in a very strong position to own the IoT space.

------
revelation
Man, 500 comments? At the end of the day, this is a 199$ WLAN router. Frankly,
normal customers don't care for routers. They certainly don't care paying for
them. Most of them are probably oblivious to even owning one.

The entire target market for guys looking at Android app graph visualizations
of their home router network is about the size of HN.

------
ocdtrekkie
The thing that throws me here that others haven't commented on yet... it's
built 'in partnership with TP-Link'. TP-Link makes budget hardware, that
doesn't last much longer than it's one year warranty.

Charging $199 for a TP-Link device sounds... overpriced. If this had been
built by ASUS, then maybe they'd have something.

~~~
lstamour
There will be one from ASUS in the future:

> Google’s hardware partner for the initial OnHub is TP-LINK; it plans future
> devices with other manufacturers as well, including one from ASUS later this
> year.

[http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/cio/google-
in...](http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/cio/google-inc-unveils-
cylinder-shaped-onhub-wi-fi-router-with-made-in-canada-software)

------
anujdeshpande
This is something that will be amazing to reverse engineer too actually.
Something similar to bunnie taking apart the xbox.

------
osipovas
I wonder what sort of ramifications this has for improving indoor location
services for Google's connected properties.

------
fimoreth
I find it odd how it seems to be marketed to the general consumer, who usually
won't need the high specs. What is the average person going to use USB on the
router for?

I have a $200+ router myself, but would feel too restricted with the OnHub's
single LAN port.

Still very interesting. Just wondering why the high price point and (imo) over
the top specs.

~~~
ascagnel_
> What is the average person going to use USB on the router for?

It's a good way to share a printer, especially if you don't have a printer
that supports WiFi.

~~~
fimoreth
Ah, okay. Hadn't thought of that, thanks.

------
mrmondo
I don't know how I would feel about Google having a device in my house that
monitors all my internet traffic, I think they already know enough about me
and I'm not sure I'm in a position to I trust them. Made me think of a funny
comparison: I wouldn't buy a car or condom from Microsoft.

~~~
zadjii
What about a car from Google? Perhaps one that drives itself?

------
makeitsuckless
I'll try not to put this in a way that may be interpreted as "gratuitous
negativity", but I stopped caring about Google branded hardware a long time
ago, since the odds of it being available in many countries outside the US
sometime this century are near zero.

------
atarkmani
I could see something great coming out from OnHub once you start connecting
other devices around the home thru thread mesh network
[http://threadgroup.org/](http://threadgroup.org/)

------
jaysoncena
Even with all these data privacy issues, I am still interested on how it
performs since 2.4ghz and 5ghz has their own 6 anntennas. This is important
for me since on the country where I am living now, 1gbps internet connection
is the norm.

------
1arity
The perspective of the phone on the desk in the hero shot of the "onhub" seems
out of wack with respect to all the other objects on the desk, and the shadow
of the onhub. Is that phone levitating slightly?

Oh, and it's clearly a telescreen.

------
Tepix
"Choose a password you can remember, and share it with a friend using the
Google On app."

No, but no thanks. Not with Google. It's already hard to prevent people from
syncing my wifi password with them as part of the Android cloud stuff.

------
scottmcdot
I get a 404 error when I try to pre order in Google Store. I have an
Australian account - maybe that's why?
[http://i.imgur.com/x0soYdJ.png](http://i.imgur.com/x0soYdJ.png)

------
jtemplin
It's surprising to see this announcement in the wake of the Alphabet
restructuring. Because of privacy concerns, I suspect they'd sell many more of
these under the Nest brand, than they will under the Google brand.

------
Pxtl
I have a new-ish Tp-Link router that's been driving me utterly batty, so I'm
looking forward to Google getting into this game.

Hope they develop a full line of products, like having a second device for
range-boosting.

~~~
nathanm412
Just an FYI, this is a TP-Link router that is being rebranded by Google. (TP-
Link TGR1900)

~~~
wmf
It looks more like a Google-designed router that is manufactured by TP-Link.
Notably, the firmware is from Google.

------
pratikch
it could have been better if google have added storage and caching facility
right on the box, that would've helped people to reduce the total data usage
for passive contents like videos.

------
adamkochanowicz
How does it–It's really fast! Yes but how can it be faster–Why is fast good?
Because of all the things you do in your life. Okay, but what technology
does—Circular antenna LOLz!1

~~~
tajano
It's fast because it supports the 802.11ac standard, which offers faster rates
than 802.11n. The 802.11ac standard provisions for various rates, including
the 1900 Mbps rate supported by this device. That's 600 Mbps over the 2.4 GHz
band, plus 1,300 Mbps over the 5 GHz band.

802.11ac enables faster rates primarily by supporting wider bandwidths, more
antennas, and larger symbol constellations (each symbol transmitted over the
wireless channel can take on one value from a larger set of possible values,
thereby conveying more information per symbol).

------
j_s
Does it have a microphone? Did not see it mentioned in the specs...

------
vinceguidry
The wireless radios in routers deteriorate and should be replaced every two
years. The ones on your device deteriorates too, but not as quickly because
it's not constantly in use like a router's. I will not be buying one of these
as I consider these to be infrastructure and infrastructure should be built to
industry standards so that it's easily maintained by swapping components.

The privacy concerns bug me, but what bugs me more is the prospect that my
lifestyle might start relying on a product that the company putting is out has
a nasty tendency to discontinue when it's no longer convenient to support.
See: Google Reader.

~~~
JonahBraun
> The wireless radios in routers deteriorate

Citation needed. What exactly do you think is deteriorating here? It's not
like the antenna is oxidizing from use…

------
zobzu
199 in exchange of google having another active spy system directly at your
network edge, in case you run non google devices.

What a privilege. Think I'll pass thanks.

------
thezach
now available for order on Amazon.
[http://amzn.to/1HUa2oB](http://amzn.to/1HUa2oB)

------
ksec
All the features and problem are solved by EERO, and solved in a much more
elegant and consumer friendly way.

I mean Christ, do google even understand UX?

------
pbreit
Why is wifi so darn expensive? Does this thing really have $200 worth of
electronics? Is it that much better than the $12 TP-links?

------
franze
their rel-alternate

    
    
        <link href="https://on.google.com/intl/en_ca/hub/" hreflang="en-ca" rel="alternate">
        <link href="https://on.google.com/intl/fr_ca/hub/" hreflang="fr-ca" rel="alternate">
    

points to a 404

~~~
simbas
This seems to show that they will launch the device in Canada (en_ca, fr_ca)

~~~
lstamour
The OnHub will be available for $269 on Aug. 31 in Canada, from Best Buy and
the Google Store.

More at: [http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/cio/google-
in...](http://business.financialpost.com/fp-tech-desk/cio/google-inc-unveils-
cylinder-shaped-onhub-wi-fi-router-with-made-in-canada-software)

------
api
Here's one for the FAQ:

"Does OnHub send all my browsing information including SSL SNI header
information to Google?"

------
mrbill
This had to come out two weeks after I upgraded at home to a Cisco 1252AG,
didn't it? I still want one...

------
heywire
The design reminds me of something between a Mac Pro, Amazon Echo, and
D-Link's "cloud" routers.

------
intrasight
Cool. Can I flash with Tomato or DD-WRT?

------
GutenYe
Which Operating System(OS) does it use? Will it be open sourced? Can you use
it without a Google Account?

------
misterbwong
Am I the only one thinking this is Google's stealth echo competitor? It has
all the right pieces. It's constantly connected to internet and power,
zigbee/bluetooth/wifi, speaker, decent (enough) CPU, front end app.

I'm sure they already have an API built into the back end. All they would need
to do would be to build a gateway API for developers and add a mic.

~~~
speechduh
Far field speech recognition is _really_ hard. You can't just throw any random
set of mic / speaker into a tube and expect it to work. The echo is almost
exclusively mic / speaker, in a very specific configuration. There's no way
the product they're shipping will be able to do far field speech recognition
(much less while playing music).

------
0xdeadbeefbabe
So how does it connect to the app? Buttons and lights are a lot better than no
connection.

~~~
aroch
They tell you, they just tucked it away at the bottom:

    
    
      >When you set up OnHub using an Android device, it uses an audio tone to send a setup code directly to your mobile device for easy and secure setup.

~~~
rgoodwintx
I imagine it's like Echo, and the various sticks out now; if not on Android,
you connect to it from your phone as a wifi access point, and set it up from
there. When done it reboots and becomes part of your regular network.

------
jshelly
A Google branded TP-Link router

------
ericfrederich
If there's one thing Google doesn't know its WiFi. Stupid Chromecast cannot
connect to like 95% of Hotel WiFi. For something named after a web browser I
find it mind boggling that it can't display a web page for you to enter your
room number in or agree to terms.

~~~
spinchange
The splash screens aren't the only problem, some hotels enforce device
isolation on the network too.

Some kind of travel router (or laptop) sharing the hotel's WiFi to your own
little hotspot is the way to go. You probably wouldn't want your chromecast
open to other guests connected directly to the hotel's wifi anyway.

------
serverholic
I love the design but I wish it had an ethernet port (or two).

Edit: I spoke too soon.

~~~
nevir
From the specs section:

Networking

    
    
      2.4 GHz wireless  802.11b/g/n 3x3 with smart antenna
      5 GHz wireless    802.11a/n/ac 3x3 with smart antenna
      AUX wireless      802.11a/b/g/n/ac 1x1
      Ethernet switch   QCA8337 Gigabit sw
      WAN port          1x 10/100/1000 Mbps
      LAN port          1x 10/100/1000 Mbps

~~~
serverholic
Oh awesome. I didn't see it in the illustrations so I assumed it just had one
internet hookup.

------
onetimeusename
These articles about Google's past with wi-fi might be relevant.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/google-wifi-
snooping/](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/google-wifi-snooping/)

------
warrentr
Newegg says "Release Date: 08/31/2015"

------
mickgardner
"Our product is not available in your country".

How predictable.

------
mentat
Did anyone see whether it supported IPv6 on Comcast?

------
finalight
in before "another project that google use it as a toy and then just throw it
away if it fails"

------
zanethomas
why would i invite google into my home?

------
sbarre
Not available outside the US. :-(

~~~
guyzero
Available in Canada, technically not the US.

~~~
sbarre
That must be new because I am in Canada, and it said "not available in your
country".

------
pluma
Step 1: Get people to buy a ChromeCast to view their media

Step 2: Make ChromeCast randomly vanish from WiFi

Step 3: Get people to buy an OnHub to fix their WiFi

Step 4: ???

Step 5: All your data

------
noja
and dust? it can't be for out in the open with an open rim around the top.

------
slaney
"From Google". Oh OK, a spying device. No thanks.

------
EugeneOZ
site is written in AngularJS :)

------
ksmithbaylor
TAKE MY MONEY

------
ahamino
Google is taking over the worrrrld

------
pknerd
WOW!!!

Now they can monitor all activities without injecting any tools at OS or
application level.

~~~
VikingCoder
Because they couldn't already, when they were an ISP. Google Fiber.

------
electriclove
No Z-Wave support? That's a huge FAIL for home automation.

Sooooo close Google. Add Z-Wave support and you'll have an instant winner.
Make the speaker high quality (if it isn't already) and encroach on Sonos and
Amazon.

But without Z-Wave, you won't sell enough to make an impact.

------
bferri
Google #OnHub slogan: "Because if we didn't already know most things about you
now we'll know exactly everything you do on the internet"

------
driverdan
Why would anyone want this over the latest Asus AC1900 router? Asus' web
interface is easy to use and their QoS is surprisingly good out of the box.

Also, Asus isn't going to spy on everything you do.

~~~
freehunter
Because it's pretty, it's made by Google, and look at all of the fancy
marketing they've done.

More seriously, it offers a lot more integration with non-wifi wireless
devices than the Asus does, tighter integration with Android and other Google
services, and some value-add features like password-less pairing and a
friendly app.

~~~
larrys
"look at all of the fancy marketing they've done"

They are trying to be Apple even the design seems close to what Apple might do
at least to my eye. The thing is Apple does this and gets business because
there was a core of important and vital products and software that got people
using Apple for a different reason. So if I buy (as I have) Apple's Airport
extreme it's because I am buying other Apple products. I can't say if that
weren't the case that would be what I would go with. (I mean I might but since
I am already buying the brand I am biased and just go for the IBM choice so to
speak...).

My point is that a company can't simply take a product here and a product
there and hope to have great success with just a great isolated device for a
particular purpose.

Which means that since google is not stupid they must be doing this for
another reason (as others have mentioned). They aren't doing it because they
honestly expect and need to sell routers and make money from that or even
another play that they are building on that we don't know about. Must be
something else going on here.

Lastly, end users in flyover country don't care about all of this unless they
know about or have a particular problem. And how many people even have these
problems? (I don't as only one example..) If they did they would be protesting
outside of cable companies and demanding better remote controls for their fios
or comcast dvr's.

------
daveloyall
You can almost hear the TLA's grunt of relief. Maybe they won't 'go dark'
after all.

I mean, hell, even if the consumer monitors the thing, a constant X mbps
stream of strongly encrypted traffic to Google is _normal_.

What do we do? Demand that the device must give us (per-device) keys for the
purposes of audit? Somebody will argue that that would open an attack
vector...

@EFF, what do we do?

------
skarap
Woohoo, another phallic gadget, almost exactly looks like a Mac Pro!

~~~
smacktoward
I'm not sure you understand what "phallic" means...

~~~
skarap
I really do - round and tall. This was supposed to be a joke, but I guess I
don't know how to interact with HN community yet.

------
emilburzo
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but since it's a router thread,
I'll go ahead.

I'm looking to buy a router with better performance than the Linksys E3200
that I currently have.

Lots of VMs, torrents with many connections, etc are taking a toll on it,
especially towards the NAT connection count limit (wifi signal/speed is enough
for me).

ERLite from Ubiquiti Networks seems interesting, but it's not so popular and
I'm past the days where debugging routers was fun.

Any suggestions?

~~~
jon-wood
The ERLite is a fantastic router. I picked one up with the same worries you
seem to have, but there's a decent community around them, and even then you'll
likely only need that if you're doing something exotic like failover
connections (although even those are now supported through the web UI).

For $99 the only drawback is that it doesn't also do wifi, but given how
poorly my previous all in one APs have done that's possibly a feature.
Ubiquiti's Unifi APs piss all over older access points I've had, I just wish
I'd ponied up for at least one AC standard one instead of cheaping out on the
G band ones.

~~~
emilburzo
Yeah, I'm starting to consider it a bonus if the devices are separated
(router/wifi).

Thank you, I'll give the product another look.

