

German president to boycott Olympics in Russia over human rights - alexgrcs
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/08/world/europe/germany-russia-olympics-boycott

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ErsatzVerkehr
Does anyone even know who the German president is? (Hint: it's not Angela
Merkel.)

I live in Germany and I wouldn't have been able to name him.

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rb2k_
That's probably because he doesn't have any real power :)

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yodsanklai
which is probably why he can boycott things without upsetting too many people.

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isalmon
I personally think it's a bad idea to mix sport and politics. We already had
it in 1980 and 1984 - it did not bring any good to anybody. Don't like Russian
laws or Putin? There are other ways to say that. Sportsmen should not be
involved in this type of stuff.

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Avshalom
>I personally think it's a bad idea to mix sport and politics.

So... you think the Olympics are a bad idea. no judgment, I'm not a fan of
nationalistic dick measuring and governments lighting money on fire either.

Also for that matter, what about the gay athletes how the hell are they
supposed to not be involved in this type of stuff?

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DrStalker
Russia will provide them with nice secure cells to ensure they do not become
involved.

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velodrome
I don't think it is fair to boycott the Olympics and rob the dreams of the
participants who worked so hard to qualify.

If you have something to prove, then prove it at the Olympics. Use it as an
opportunity to change people's perceptions.

Could you imagine what was going through Adolf Hitler's mind when he saw Jeese
Owens during the 1936 Olympics? Or, back in the US, where racism was
commonplace and African-Americans were treated as "inferior".

Interesting fact about Jeese Owens: He was never acknowledged for his
achievements until President Dwight Eisenhower.

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pyduan
The fact you use Jesse Owen's example is a bit ironic, since he was actually
much better treated in Germany than in the United States where racial
segregation was still the norm. By his own account: "Hitler didn't snub me –
it was FDR who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."

(Not making a point, just remarking.)

> Could you imagine what was going through Adolf Hitler's mind when he saw
> Jeese Owens during the 1936 Olympics?

For the curious, we actually know what Hitler's reaction was. This is how
Albert Speer, who was in the box with him at the time, described it:

"He was highly annoyed by the series of triumphs by the marvelous colored
American runner, Jesse Owens. People whose antecedents came from the jungle
were primitive, Hitler said with a shrug; their physiques were stronger than
those of civilized whites and hence should be excluded from future games."
[Inside the Third Reich, 1970]

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arrrg
He was treated normally (i.e. like hosts are expected to treat any foreign
athletes) because Germany didn’t want to destroy its image. I mean, Germany
_almost_ snubbed Jesse Owens outright by not allowing _any_ Blacks or Jews to
participate, but after threats of boycott walked back on that (though did not
change its mind, as is obvious from the quote you provided).

The nature of the relationship between Hitler and Jesse Owens is quite
different from the relationship between FDR and Jesse Owens.

Points of comparison would either be a hypothetical successful German Black
athlete and how Hitler would treat that person (not allow him or her to
participate is the answer to that) or a hypothetical successful non-US black
athlete and how FDR would treat that person.

As is quite obvious from your quote, Hitler still perceived Jesse Owens (and
black people in general) as sub-human and was very outspoken about that. There
is racist ideology oozing out of that statement. It’s consistent with
everything else he has said about race.

FDR was obviously also racist, no question about that, but there is a
difference between Hitler’s and FDR’s racism.

Jesse Owens’ own focus was very understandably on his own and others’ Blacks
troubles they were facing in racist segregated America at the time.

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jamra
What do they plan on doing for the Dubai World Cup built on the back of actual
slaves.

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waterside81
It's in Qatar, not Dubai

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jamra
Yes you are right. I'm sorry. Same general policies though. You need an exit
Visa to leave. Your employer holds your passport.

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pokpokpok
I would hate to be an athlete who's trained their entire life for this event,
only to have it so tainted by russia's appalling actions. As a fan, I'm still
looking for an appropriate reaction

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ThePhysicist
He does not really "boycott" the Olympics, he simply will not attend them in
his function as head of state, which anyway is not strictly demanded by
protocol. In addition, in his public statement he does not officially state
that he will not attend the games because of human right violations by Russia,
although one could certainly interpret it this way. Within the current
relationship between Germany and Russia, which is neither particularly
friendly nor hostile, this is still the strongest statement he can make
without causing an affront. In fact, Gauck never officially visited Russia in
his function as head of state since his election.

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boyter
I had a poke around but lack the Google-fu to find the "propaganda" law in
question. I would really be curious to see the law as written and what it
entails.

The reason I ask is because the linked article
[http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/russia-gay-
ri...](http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/01/world/europe/russia-gay-rights-
controversy/) about the law has the quote "propaganda of nontraditional sexual
relations around minors." which sounds reasonable to me.

Please note I don't want to see analysis of the law (as everything I saw while
searching seemed biased), I want to see what it actually says. I want to see
the other side of the argument before I cast any personal judgement over this.

Please note I am not homophobic, or against non-traditional relationships, I
just want to hear the other side of the argument, especially when it would
appear based on what I saw that the majority of Russians agreed with it.

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guttermaw
I found and article [1] that features an English translation of the law.

"Here is what Article 6.21 actually says:

Propaganda is the act of distributing information among minors that 1) is
aimed at the creating nontraditional sexual attitudes, 2) makes nontraditional
sexual relations attractive, 3) equates the social value of traditional and
nontraditional sexual relations, or 4) creates an interest in nontraditional
sexual relations.

If you’re Russian. Individuals engaging in such propaganda can be fined 4,000
to 5,000 rubles (120-150 USD), public officials are subject to fines of 40,000
to 50,000 rubles (1,200-1,500 USD), and registered organizations can be either
fined (800,000-1,000,000 rubles or 24,000-30,000 USD) or sanctioned to stop
operations for 90 days. If you engage in the said propaganda in the media or
on the internet, the sliding scale of fines shifts: for individuals, 50,000 to
100,000 rubles; for public officials, 100,000 to 200,000 rubles, and for
organizations, from one million rubles or a 90-day suspension.

If you’re an alien. Foreign citizens or stateless persons engaging in
propaganda are subject to a fine of 4,000 to 5,000 rubles, or they can be
deported from the Russian Federation and/or serve 15 days in jail. If a
foreigner uses the media or the internet to engage in propaganda, the fines
increase to 50,000-100,000 rubles or a 15-day detention with subsequent
deportation from Russia."

I think that this says that advocating for equality is a crime. Scary.

[1] [http://www.policymic.com/articles/58649/russia-s-anti-gay-
la...](http://www.policymic.com/articles/58649/russia-s-anti-gay-law-spelled-
out-in-plain-english)

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boyter
I found that too, but it seems to be lifting portions of the text. I want to
see the whole thing. Preferably in Russian with a side by side English
translation (I will run it through some converters just to check).

I can see how advocating for equality can be listed as a crime based on what's
listed there though. Its interesting that the word "propaganda" is used which
leaves a fair amount of room for interpretation. Point 3 is the sore point it
seems, although I can see why its in there as you would not want to equate
child-adult relationships which this would prevent. It all hangs on the word
"nontraditional"

I find the organisation fine interesting. Could you use this to fine Focus
Features for distributing the film "The Kids Are All Right" in Russia?

EDIT - The linked article actually points out that the key words are
propaganda and nontraditional. I still want to see the whole law though as
those should be defined somewhere.

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solarexplorer
This move may be influenced by Gauck's background: His father spent years in a
soviet gulag and he is a prominent anti-communist.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauck](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauck)

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Fice
Boycotts and scandals is what Putin probably actually want from Sochi Olympics
to raise tension with the West and lead us to the new Iron Curtain.

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Apocryphon
Olympics-boycotting nations should revive the Friendship Games for maximum
irony:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_Games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_Games)

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yodsanklai
On one hand, it seems like a good thing to do. But to be consistent, he should
boycott other olympics or international sport events. Russia is not the only
country where human rights are severely abused.

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mrich
He didn't mind shaking the hand of the president responsible for illegally
monitoring the communications of all Germans.

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viame
Germans have a president? Wth is Angela running the show?

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moreentropy
In Germany the president is the head of state, but is not involved in running
the government. Sort of like an elected king, he's there for ceremonies and
signing federal laws.

Edit:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Germany](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Germany)

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Raticide
Same as the USA then.

