

Ask HN: Advice about possible extortion? - absconditus

I am posting this on behalf of another HN member with less karma.<p>Someone close to me operates a medical practice in a fairly densely populated area of a very large city. Over the last few months, very negative reviews started appearing on review sites (like Yelp and Yahoo reviews) from users with no review history. The negative reviews are interspersed with others, which are a mixed bag (but tend towards the very positive) and probably valid. Normally I'd assume she's just getting negative reviews and move on, but she's received a fax from someone saying they're aware of the problem and can help her fix it, with a return phone number and an address that's geographically on the other side of the country. I'm assuming as soon as she contacts them they'll ask for money (or worse) to take them down. In my opinion, this is a terrible precedent to set.<p>I remember hearing about Yelp doing this themselves, but never a third party. Googling for the problem also lead to few similar situations. Given that the practice has very few reviews as it is, it is tarnishing her image quite a bit and she has noticed a downturn in the number of patients she's been seeing.<p>So far, we've been advising, under no circumstances, to reach out to this person.<p>Does anyone have any experience with situations like this or can offer advice?
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jacquesm
Please whatever you do and no matter how much it may hurt in the short term:
completely and utterly ignore these people.

Once they figure you're vulnerable they will start to work on your account
'overtime'.

Yelp is a bunch of scum (for not verifying that a relation between reviewer
and reviewee exists) and I wouldn't be surprised if they were involved
directly or indirectly, the temptation must be huge. A negative review system
should be run based on verified ID of the reviewer, anything less is simply
setting up a vehicle for blackmail. Apparently one of Yelps income streams is
to influence the sort order for paying customers, positive reviews on top. Of
course that only works when there are negative reviews.

Blackmailers are cowards and as a rule they move to the softest targets, any
kind of response that they've been noticed is going to backfire big time.

good luck with this

~~~
inovica
Very good advice. We had something, not quite the same but relating to some
negative posts on forums, where our lawyers suggested we go after them. I
spoke to a friend of a friend who is a litigator, who told me (in a friendly
capacity) that "principals can be expensive things" and that I should just
continue doing a good job. We did that and it went away thanks to our own
user-base coming to our aid. Turned out that it was one competitor (in our
case) who decided to talk negatively about us. As an aside though, we now
monitor forums and social media that relate to us. The added benefit of this
is that we can provide better customer service in an event where someone has a
gripe and they express it publicly, rather than via our own support channels.

Anyway, I'd agree with the above advice. Tell your friend good luck. Maybe she
should find a way to help her customers to be more vocal about her business

~~~
andyv
"Principles can be expensive things"...

You had me confused there.

~~~
inovica
lol. Sorry, spelling has never been my strong point :)

------
matrix
I suggest calling your local FBI field office, and discussing your best course
of action with an agent.

Most likely they'll tell you that you're on your own, but you never know. The
level of loss is far below what normally interests them, but if you could show
that this is widespread, that could change things.

~~~
msredmond
Really think its a better idea to find out what this is first -- really could
just be marketing (albeit dumb marketing). Unless there was a direct threat
(wording would need to be shared here by original poster), sounds like there's
not much of a case for involving law enforcement, at least at this point.

~~~
matrix
You're absolutely right; I jumped to conclusions a little too hastily.

That said, I just did a check on online reviews for a doctor I know well and
whom I know has been one the most loved and respected doctors in the community
for decades. I also know his reviews were excellent 6 months ago. However,
today, there are now some 1 star reviews.

Hmmm...

~~~
jrockway
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Here's the thing with review sites; the reviews are not made by people
qualified to write reviews. I've seen one-star reviews on Amazon because the
person bought the wrong item and they didn't like the return policy. I've seen
one-star reviews on Yelp because the restaurant didn't use recyclable takeout
forks.

It's really dumb to put any value into the star-rating system, and yet people
do it. I only look at the stars if there are 40 or more reviews. Then at least
a few people with some common sense got a chance to weigh in.

------
absconditus
Here is a previous discussion about Yelp's practices:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148458>

------
Rob_RepDef
Hi, my name is Rob Frappier and I am the Community Manager for
ReputationDefender. Our company focuses on helping individuals and businesses
protect their reputations online.

Unfortunately, there are a variety of companies that operate under the
extortionate business model that the original poster discusses. They offer
"solutions" to the problems that they themselves have created. The fact that
most consumer review sites do not require individuals to disclose their actual
identity makes it difficult for business owners to determine the validity of
reviews and to pursue legal action in the case of defamation.

In our experience, the best solution to mitigate damage done by inaccurate or
defamatory online reviews is to focus on proactive reputation management
efforts. Increasingly, doctors, lawyers, and other professionals are turning
to social media tools to help build their brands online. This provides the
dual benefit of protecting against reputation damage while also creating
positive content for Google and other search engines.

At ReputationDefender, we offer solutions to help business owners get started
on a proactive reputation management campaign. However, there are steps that
your friend can take to help repair the damage on her own. Here is some advice
from our Online Resource Center tailored for medical professionals -
[http://www.reputationdefender.com/how_to/online-
reputation-m...](http://www.reputationdefender.com/how_to/online-reputation-
management-tips-for-doctors/).

On a related note, Yelp co-founder Jeremy Stoppelman recently did an interview
with Mashable.com to discuss how Yelp has added new features to try and deal
with false and malicious reviews in the wake of multiple class-action lawsuits
against the company. Here's a link to the interview -
[http://mashable.com/2010/10/28/jeremy-stoppelman-yelp-
interv...](http://mashable.com/2010/10/28/jeremy-stoppelman-yelp-interview/).

Best regards, Rob

------
mathgladiator
I think the review scene is going to be open to data mining for fraud
detection (or some kind of karma), and I think the HN community should pay
attention to this as a problem that needs fixing.

In your case, I would rally friends to place positive reviews to counter-
balance the forces of evil. Involve the patients of the practitioner (usually
works when the operation is smaller and the relationships are stronger).

------
msredmond
I suspect this is marketing more than anything. There are companies out there
that specialize in cleaning up online reputations. Perhaps that's just how
they market -- look up companies, then try to reach out to do it -- but not in
a very good way, it sounds like.

Have you done a reverse look-up on the numbers (phone # provided and fax)?

------
aberkowitz
A simple solution is to append a request for feedback on Yelp / Yahoo to the
bottom of all receipts or invoices:

Our goal at [Name of Medical Office] is to provide you with the best care
possible. If you liked your experience today, please let us know by leaving a
review on our Yelp [url] or Yahoo [url] review pages.

------
WillyF
I think that it would be a great time to start encouraging current patients to
leave reviews online. I know there are some startups that automate this kind
of thing. It's a good thing to do anyway, and it especially makes sense in
this situation.

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mattmaroon
I would reach out to them, though only to get their contact info. Anything
that may be personally identifiable would be great. I'd also record the
conversation. Then I'd take it all to the FBI. I'd also send it into Yelp,
they'll probably remove the offending posts if you've gotten all that.

Extortion is just as illegal on Yelp as anywhere else.

Of course as many mentioned here, don't pay. They'll just do it to you again
if you do.

~~~
jacquesm
> They'll just do it to you again if you do.

And to others too. Don't forget that a blackmailer that is successful is
encouraged that 'the formula' works. If people en-bloc refuse to give in it
will eventually stop.

------
tomjen3
Record the call (if it is legal to do so), when they start asking for money,
send the tape to the FBI.

~~~
anamax
Don't play police. Get real police involved and let them drive.

They know what they're doing. You're not going to do it any better and you
might do it significantly worse.

