
With Dry Taps and Toilets, California Drought Turns Desperate - nikunjk
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/california-drought-tulare-county.html?smid=tw-share
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ethagknight
Can someone explain why raising water rates is not a logical solution to this
problem? The primary reason why Californian water utilities don't have the
resources to invest in large scale reclaimation projects must be related to
not charging enough enough for the product. Furthermore, water availability is
far more important than water affordability.

I'm reading George Gilder's book The Israel Test, and the Israelis have made
enormous improvements in the desert to sustainably farm with advanced
greenhouses, and they have pioneered desalination methods. I don't know how
Californian water utilities operate, but I presume that increased fees from
water consumption would go directly toward improving the water acquisition and
distribution network.

Now, there isn't much that can be done about private wells, but responsible
water management across the state (farms) will reduce draw down and lengthen
the lives of these wells.

EDIT: I see the major issue being that farms probably have private wells
anyway, so utility regulation does nothing. Also, well regulation or raising
rates would not put most farms out of business, but change farming practices.
Total loss of water access puts farms out of business. This argument misses
the big picture. Its all moot of farms can dig wells as they please. The state
is seeking to implement controls.
[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/us/politics/desperately-
dr...](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/us/politics/desperately-dry-
california-tries-to-curb-private-drilling-for-water.html?_r=0)

~~~
pjc50
Raising the water rate would reduce water usage by putting a large number of
farms out of business in the short term, which is politically fraught.

Or they'd get an exemption and the brunt would fall on residential use of
water which is comparatively small.

~~~
seanflyon
I think we should gradually raise the cost of water, especially to farms that
pay orders of magnitude less than residential. If rice farmers can't stay in
business if we reduce water subsidies then they should go out of business.

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kapnobatairza
This is the kind of thing that makes ambitions to colonize other planets seem
silly. If we can't even maintain or control the environment of a planet that
is highly livable, how are we expected to terraform Mars?

~~~
teddyh
Wouldn’t you say that the very existence of, say, Las Vegas, is evidence of
the possibility of altering an extreme environment to be fit for human
conditions?

☺

~~~
pyre
Las Vegas exists due to the Hoover Dam.

~~~
teddyh
The simple idea is then to pre-ship a Hoover Dam equivalent to Mars. Some sort
of huge solar array, perhaps?

~~~
maxerickson
Wrong benefit. Lake Mead is what gp is talking about.

~~~
pyre
Well, Las Vegas as a city of lights also exists due to the cheap electricity
that the dam provided too.

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sadris
Solution to problem: Raise water rates. Why is this so hard? Might force
people out of the state, but clearly there are too many given the present
resources.

~~~
danepowell
Detroit tried something similar (albeit for different reasons). Didn't work
out so well for them:
[http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/08/08/338068996/episode-...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/08/08/338068996/episode-559-detroits-
water-bill)

~~~
sadris
Detroit should have immediately cut off non-paying customers for... non-
payment -- instead of waiting for $90m in overdrafts to accrue.

~~~
DanBC
Access to clean water and sanitation is a fundamental human right so cutting
off people who don't pay is problematic.

Cutting off farmers is politically scary.

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ar7hur
All my Palo Alto neighbors who over water their lawns everyday surely don't
look very desperate... (which makes _me_ desperate)

~~~
asadotzler
Discussing lawn watering is a distraction. It's literally a drop in the ocean.
Industry, power generation, and agriculture are where _all_ the water goes.
Pretending that residential usage matters at all is to take ones eye off the
ball.

~~~
seanflyon
More specifically agriculture is 77% and residential is 13% according to this
UCLA report from 2009 (though there data looks like it is from 2005).

[http://www.environment.ucla.edu/reportcard/article4870.html](http://www.environment.ucla.edu/reportcard/article4870.html)

[http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media/images/water-
fig1-lrg....](http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media/images/water-fig1-lrg.jpg)

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orbifold
What is the waste water treatment process like? Is any effort being made to
replenish the original sources? My understanding is that the water is brought
in with pipelines from across a natural water shed that way almost none of the
extracted water will return to its original place, instead it will either
evaporate and carried out to the sea if used for irrigation or flushed out as
waste water.

~~~
dalke
Quoting from the article: "Hundreds of these homes are hooked to wells that
are treated as private property: When the water is there, it is solely
controlled by owners. Because the land is unincorporated, it is not part of a
municipal water system, and connecting to one would be prohibitively
expensive."

So, the waster water treatment is septic, the original source is rainwater,
and there are no pipelines like what you are talking about.

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lightblade
Does America have any state or federal infrastructure project that transfer
water from water rich region to the water poor region? Like this one,

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South–North_Water_Transfer_Proj...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South–North_Water_Transfer_Project)

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rtpg
Is there any way for us to fix this? Like, climate-control style "make it rain
in these spots"?

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bobcostas55
There is one way that is both extremely simple and politically impossible:
start charging farmers market rates. They pay too little, use too much, and
represent a gigantic portion of total water consumption.

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raverbashing
And see the price of food go up, affecting those with the least amount of
income.

~~~
Alex3917
I somehow doubt the price of almonds going up is going to affect those with
the least income.

