
Mental Illness and Startups - fractalcat
http://blog.tesser.org/2011/5/12/mental-illness-and-startups
======
MartinCron
While I don't disagree with this statement:

 _There are people who think that depression means 'feeling low', and that if
you try hard enough, you can 'snap out of it'. These people are idiots. It's
not a matter of being strong enough or dedicated enough. For me, like most
people with depressive illnesses, there will be times when I just plain can't.
In my worst states I can barely remember what a for loop does, let alone code
one. Accept that there will be times when you can't work, and make the most of
the times when you can._

There is an approach called "behavioral activation" that my psychiatrist
taught me. Basically, instead of saying "I'll do it _when_ I feel better", you
say "I'll do it _so_ I'll feel better".

Doing things I didn't feel like doing, that felt almost impossibly difficult
(like putting on real clothes and going outside) was probably the most
effective tool I've ever had with dealing with depression.

~~~
thaumaturgy
Coping mechanisms like that one definitely help -- especially if they get put
to use early on in a depressive cycle. A high level of self-awareness,
acknowledgement of depression (or other mental illness), certain hobbies,
"sunshine therapy", all help to mitigate depression and other mental
illnesses.

Still, though, there are severe forms of depression that can become
invulnerable to all the self-help approaches.

~~~
MartinCron
Absolutely, I pointed out a type of cognitive behavioral therapy (behavioral
activation) because it's easy advice that may help people.

The science is pretty clear that a combination of medication and
professionally-guided CBT has the most effective rates for treating
depression, and that some specific treatments specifically don't work at all
for some people.

~~~
gnosis
There are tons of other types of therapies as well:

[http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/content/therapy_me...](http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/content/therapy_methods.html)

Which one is "most effective" (by what measure?) is very debatable.

Here's a Jungian critique of CBT ("Psychology's New God") :

[http://hbmag.com/jungian-psychology-series-
psychology’s-new-...](http://hbmag.com/jungian-psychology-series-
psychology’s-new-god/)

------
_tef
"you don't have to be mad to work here but ...."

i've found smaller companies are much more tolerant & flexible with nutters
(like me).

there seems to be more focus on results than politics. in larger places I've
felt more pressure not to rock the boat, and produce the illusion of work,
rather than actually delivering things on time. it doesn't seem to matter if
you actually do anything as long as you look like you're not doing /nothing/.

and I don't mean a startup. even startups can grow into kafkaesque nightmares
because it's the only way they've ever thought to run a company. really, you
have to be in a small, autonomous group if you want to get away with not being
that normal.

the moral is: being a startup in and of itself is no guarantee of tolerance
for off kilter people, the people and culture within the company are
important. there is a correlation between small companies/startups and
tolerance, but it isn't causation.

~~~
Rondrak
I've worked for Microsoft for over a year now, and they've been exceptionally
supportive of my peculiarities. I've suffered massively from depression and
sleep disorders, and everyone's pretty willing to reschedule meetings, allow
for an altered work schedule, or just let me work from home when it gets bad.

As long as I deliver what I'm supposed to, when I'm supposed to, they're very
reasonable.

~~~
rhizome
Though I was in a "channel" (as they call(ed) it) that was perhaps less
attuned to freaks, I had the opposite experience at EA.

------
idoh
Speaking as someone who has a family member with mental illness: if you have
such an illness then please seek professional help right away. If you suspect
that someone you care about might have a mental illness then you should urge
them to seek professional help right away.

Sometimes it is all manageable or heals on its own, but sometimes the illness
progresses and the results are tragic, so it needs to be viewed seriously.

~~~
andrewvc
Eh, psychology and psychiatry are still fairly young sciences. I'd say it's
worth a shot, but people put too much faith in it. I've had family members in
professional help forever with no noticeable improvements. They'll even admit
to it.

My personal opinion is that, while sometimes useful, we just don't know enough
about how humans work to really fix a large number of issues. People tend to
go to psychiatrists persistently even after no track record of improvement out
of the fear that they'll get worse. No one will ever recommend that anyone
'give up' on professional help out of the fear that saying so will make them
responsible for the negative consequences.

~~~
idoh
True. I think the best way to approach it is to acknowledge that there is no
certain outcome, and that the best you can do is to maximise the probability
of success. If it doesn't work then it doesn't, but that doesn't mean that you
don't try at all.

------
chuhnk
Without disclosing personal details I would like to say this post spoke to me
as it very much fits with what I've been through. Dropping out, the highs, the
lows. I'm now 26, have worked at a startup for just over 4 years and we just
sold to google. I found the freedom of a startup to be exactly what I needed.

------
BasDirks
I was once depressed. Now I have life by the balls. How? (this is purely
anecdotal and should not be taken as advice).

    
    
      Take Meds. It's no solution, but it's the beginning of a solution.
      Quit school. 
      Go to the Italian country-side and *become a man*, Italian style (it involved a lot of wine and pasta).
      Work Mike Rowe-style jobs (like learning how to build an entire house in France).
      Refuse to do any more stupid shit (for others) in your life.
      Stop feeling guilty about anything. (Doesn't mean you lose your conscience).
      Do what you love, do what you love, do what you love.

~~~
technotony
How do you figure out what you love?

~~~
Joakal
With a relaxed attitude, you can see what things are fun to do. Do you like
fixing tractors? Making tractors? Here's a video of Open Source Backhoe:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPgr_LV1dxY>

------
rbarooah
Works great until the startup is successful enough to hire an executive who
things that office hours are a more importamt measure of productivity than
peer respect or checkins.

It's easier if you're a founder.

~~~
MartinCron
The moment an executive thinks that, it's no longer a startup, pretty much by
definition.

~~~
rbarooah
I've seen it happen twice - once just after a series A, and once after a
company made it incrementally to good profitability. Both had headcounts in
the 20-30 range, and still considered themselves to be startups.

------
mikecane
Trust me on this, most fiction writers can relate to that post 100%. Musicians
too, I think.

~~~
vimes656
I wonder how frequent is depression among programmers. That's not something
people like to blog about.

~~~
thaumaturgy
Programmers especially, since they tend to live in a world of logic and
rational thinking, which tends to lead to the notion that depression can be
controlled by modifying certain behaviors or thought patterns -- the same way
that any other function (or generic system of functions) can be controlled by
modifying their parameters.

------
navs
As a student and an amateur developer working for a magazine startup, my
schedule is chaotic and busy. Doesn't help that I go through days and
sometimes weeks of just laying in bed and watching babylon 5 DVDs. Sometimes
the only thing that can snap me out of it is an impending deadline. I'll then
end up stressed as I try to complete my workload. Needless to say, my burndown
charts are skewed.

I feel the chaos of a startup doesn't help things. I long for a structured 9
to 5 job in an office. Being alone at home just exacerbates things and having
a bed behind me just makes me want to crawl under the covers and sleep. I
tried going to various cafes to work but there's no free wifi (which I suppose
I wouldn't use anyway) and the prices are ridiculous. Libraries are great when
they aren't packed and when the homeless aren't using it for shelter.

I have to admit I do have a sudden burst of energy when I stumble across an
interesting github repo.

------
jayliew
Motivation to do X often comes _after_ you start doing X.

Purposeful / meaningful activity is a great way to combat depression.

Just my opinion, I'm not a subject matter expert.

------
JasonMoyMN79
If you are depressed, why don't you just go out and do something really
awesome? You have nothing to lose, right? So why not do something adventurous?
Sell all your shit, move to Europe or South America, and go start a
revolution.

~~~
mikecane
That's just not how it works. The simplest thing -- getting out of bed,
showering -- seems impossible and just pointless. _Everything_ seems
pointless.

~~~
asksol
Everything is pointless: then again what is the difference between habit and
ritual?

