
Michael Bloomberg: Why Safe Spaces Are Terrible Mistakes - jackgavigan
http://heatst.com/politics/michael-bloomberg-why-safe-spaces-are-terrible-mistakes/
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norea-armozel
Will people stop confusing what a safe space and a trigger warning is? Safe
spaces are spaces like a student LGBT association's own space and not a class
room. If you think you should have the right to get up in someone's face to
'debate' their sexual orientation or gender identity in every venue then I
can't say I agree with you. Some places should be safe spaces where minorities
(like LGBT) can be free to discuss matters among themselves for the same
reason people need the same sort of space to discuss private matters with
family/friends. As for trigger warnings, the fact PTSD does exist means you do
need to take that into consideration. I do agree they're overused but beyond
that point I think a trigger warning isn't any worse than a buying a DVD with
an MPAA rating. If additional information is too much for you maybe you ought
not be in college because last time I checked that's all you get is
information overload (the paperwork alone to get into a college is mountainous
even).

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manyxcxi
While I agree that there should be some places that are safe spaces,
especially for people at risk of harassment/worse, it's become a tool for
silencing dissenting opinions on the worst campuses, and simply overused in
general.

Trigger warning are absolute BS. If half as many of these kids that think they
have it actually have PTSD then we are doing something VERY wrong to our kids.
PTSD is the new ADHD.

The problem is that that they have not been taught that you can at your core
hate what someone is saying, and want to disagree violently, and still have a
debate or discussion continue without shutting down.

They have been taught from early on that just because they have a thought, it
must be their truth- so everyone is running around following their own
religion.

Life doesn't have warning labels, shit happens, a parent's job is to raise a
child who can handle life's trials (mostly) on their own. Parents are
mistaking their kids for friends and doing none of the hard work of getting a
child in control of their thoughts and emotions.

My 3 year old when angry/upset/injured generally resets by stopping, taking a
deep breath, and gathering himself mentally. He does this on his own without
prompting most of the time.

My 18 month old does the same with prompting. It wasn't easy or fun to take a
wailing baby and coach them through calming themselves down, but now they can
do it- and when life hits my 3 year old in the face, often literally, he
practices tools to calm himself down and regroup that these 'adults' can't
even manage.

~~~
kaitai
Part of the problem, though, is on the other side: if a student says, "This
(action) causes harm to members of these groups in this way," that student is
using words to start a discussion about the topic at hand. It seems that many
people find this discussion itself offensive -- polite people don't talk about
racism, sexism, etc., because calling out someone's bad manners is worse than
having bad manners in the first place. (That is what my grandfather taught
me.)

A lot of the students decried in articles like the original are using calm,
controlled, verbal arguments to represent their point of view -- but then
that's represented as silencing. I guess I do see a generational gap. Young
people say, "What you said is an example of a microaggression." Old people
hear, "You're a racist so you can't talk, and mentioning this microaggression
means I'm so afraid of conflict I can't compete with China in the new world
economy, except I just started a conflict by stating the truth as I see it
instead of shutting up and rolling over like I would have in the old days, so
maybe I can compete with China...?."

~~~
egjerlow
I think what is troubling, if anything, to the 'old people' (and probably not
just those), is that when arguments such as this starts getting validity
beyond being appeals to civility - i.e. when someone is effectively able to
stop discussion of a subject because they claim to be 'harmed' by it - it
completely changes the context of the discussion and IMO, hinders constructive
discourse. So, if safe spaces are to be a 'thing', then we have to be very
clear that they must have a very well-defined limit, beyond which regular
discourse can continue.

~~~
kaitai
Agreed!

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sitharus
The odd thing is that "safe spaces" were created because of the intolerance he
describes. People are so afraid of expressing their point of view because of
the reactions they'll get - including actual bodily harm - that they feel they
have no choice but to shelter with like minded individuals.

Safe spaces are a symptom, not the cause.

~~~
soft_dev_person
There's a fine line between "safe space" and "echo chamber", then.

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6stringmerc
Pretty standard "We should work together to make the world a better place" for
most of it, no? I can appreciate the sentiment. Wisdom isn't bestowed by
education, nor simply by age, but through experiences and reflection. Oh, and
having some good associates in life, instead of bad influences.

Found this quote combination pretty telling:

> _If we want to stop demagogues, we have to start governing again, and that
> requires us to be more civil, to support politicians who have the courage to
> take risks, and to reward those who reach across the aisle in search of
> compromise._

...which sounds good! Then, soon after:

> _Today, people choose cable TV channels and websites that affirm their own
> political beliefs rather than ones that inform and challenge their beliefs.
> As a result, we have grown more politically cloistered and more intolerant
> of those who hold different opinions._

That right there's the problem - people aren't choosing to work together. His
observation is the result of, essentially, our own choosing. I read through
the rest of the speech looking for practical advice (e.g. 'vote third party!'
or 'turn off the tv!') but found it lacking. Definitely identifies the root
problem, just empty on the whole having it figured out and giving guidance on
how to solve it.

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nomoch
The only times I've heard of safe spaces and trigger warnings is when people
bitch about them. Can we get a safe space were we don't talk about them and a
trigger warning about trigger warnings so I never have to look at a bullshit
oiece about them?

~~~
reouereie
It's probably related to your location. My guess is you're not on a coast and
don't live next to a college or deal with 18-22 year old kids where they feel
empowered.

~~~
nomoch
In Australia, on a coast, deal with uni students all the time.

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MoreTuple
As a thirty year sufferer of PTSD, I think I have a lot to contribute here.

As someone who, for a very long time, had to worry greatly about the
possibility of being triggered as it could result in hours of lost time or
days of emotional turmoil seemingly without cause or apparent reason, the
current concept of avoiding triggering others is utterly and completely
useless.

What triggers me as a PTSD sufferer is not the same as what triggers others.
It could be a phrase or a seemingly benign picture, anything which may be
associated with the cause of PTSD and doesn't actually have to have anything
to do with violence or suffering.

In my experience I've found that standard NSFW or NSFL markings are sufficient
for most as they typically classify things which would cause the kind of
mental & emotional echoes that torment PTSD sufferers beyond the little things
which cannot be accounted for. Ultimately there is no knowing what can do it
for any particular individual.

Last but not least, I find the trigger marking epidemic somewhat offensive. We
are not children for you to care for. I am already very isolated in my ability
to tell people about these experiences since they are so far outside the
common reality as to be incomprehensible and quickly becomes the abnormality
to avoid or curse. I do not need to be further maligned by an ignorant
society's attempt to fix the world for me. Fix the world for the children who
are getting PTSD today and leave me the hell alone.

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MacsHeadroom
Sam Harris and Jonathan Haidt recently discussed this same topic:
[https://youtu.be/K92rOsjyLBs](https://youtu.be/K92rOsjyLBs)

It is well worth the 20 minutes of your life, especially if you are or were in
college in the past 3 years.

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kaitai
It doesn't look like Bloomberg knows what he's talking about. We all need safe
spaces and many of us have them. My living room is a fine example -- it's a
place where I can moderate the amount of s*(^ I get, and it's useful in
providing a buffer against the rest of the world. I love my living room in
part because I choose who I invite in, and because I can ask people to leave
if they're jerks or I just don't want to listen to them. The point is the rest
of the world is not this way -- but I have great discussions in my living room
that would not happen elsewhere due to all the yelling. We all need those
places.

To argue that this makes people "soft" or uncompetitive in the world economy
is ludicrous. We all know the rest of the world isn't safe; that's the point
of the contrast. But why should college be just like the rest of the world?
Sometimes you want to have a discussion about history that doesn't involve a
yelling match about current Israel-Palestine relations. Just because that is
unlike the real world doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

~~~
lsadam0
Because the point of college is to challenge your ideas and beliefs, not
shelter and reinforce.

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alanwatts
Depends on the college and the administration really.

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lsadam0
If I take a car to an establishment labelling themselves as a 'Car Wash', and
their washing method consists of flinging mud all over the car....said
establishment isn't a very good car wash, is it?

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alanwatts
The word "college" is much more ambiguous than "car wash".

Latin root: _collegium_ : 'partnership, association'

Certain religious colleges for example tend to shelter and reinforce their
respective beliefs more than challenge them.

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lsadam0
So they're not very good car washes.

