
LibreOffice 4.0: The big changes will be under the hood - CrankyBear
http://www.zdnet.com/libreoffice-4-0-the-big-changes-will-be-under-the-hood-7000010383/
======
thaumaturgy
The (in-progress) 4.0 changelog is at
<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0>

It's nice to see a software project keeping with a sane version number system
(major.minor.release; major number change = architectural changes), and it's
nice to see them working on fixing a pile of bugs and trying some new
approaches in their architecture, instead of just introducing a meaningless UI
change.

~~~
ajanuary
Major version number = architectural change doesn't make a whole heap of sense
from a consumer perspective.

~~~
ars
Sure it does.

I signals major change that could cause breakage and new bugs.

~~~
FooBarWidget
That only makes sense for users who are programmers. Non-technical users have
got no idea what you're talking about. All they see is the UI and the
presented feature sets.

~~~
thaumaturgy
What kind of version numbering would make more sense for non-technical users?

~~~
jmillikin
Year-Index.

LibreOffice 2012-1 is the first release in 2012, 2012-2 is the second release,
2013-1 is the first in 2013, etc.

Depending on release schedule, the second number can be the month (like
Ubuntu) or dropped altogether.

~~~
FaddiCat
Microsoft was doing that with their consumer software for a while. The biggest
issue is that people think the software is out of date as soon as the next
year comes along.

~~~
kijin
With an actively developed and rapidly changing piece of free software,
version 2012 actually would be outdated (and possibly insecure) by mid-2013.
If the perception of outdatedness causes more users to upgrade in a timely
fashion, I think it might be a good thing. Especially since you don't need to
pay anybody $300+ for the new version.

Having said that, LibreOffice seriously needs a more seamless update
experience for consumers. Re-downloading a 100MB installer and re-installing
every time a minor update is published gets tired rather quickly.

------
nextparadigms
I would've really liked them to introduce a new more modern UI with this
release. I like these UI mock-ups here, with the left sidebar. I think that's
a good idea (the symbols above should be in white, too, though):

<http://pauloup.deviantart.com/gallery/28216273#/d37dx4a>

The light one looks good, too:

[http://pauloup.deviantart.com/art/LibreOffice-UI-Mock-up-
lig...](http://pauloup.deviantart.com/art/LibreOffice-UI-Mock-up-
light-1-193805631)

If I were them I'd try to release the new UI in the same time with the release
for mobile, and try to make it a bit more unified, at least in style, since
tablets and PC's might need their UI's optimized for each.

~~~
chris_wot
I think that they are being very smart, fixing the plumbing so they can then
make fundamental UI changes.

However, I don't agree with the UI mockups. They look very, very confusing.

------
Camillo
The screenshots at
<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/WidgetLayout> show pretty
poor results with the new layout. Hopefully things will get better before it
ships.

Also: they use GTK tools for designing the UI, but are they actually using GTK
to implement it? Is its Mac support good enough now?

~~~
streptomycin
I have no real knowledge of this situation, but I guarantee they are not using
GTK everywhere. Cross platform support (especially with GTK3) is not nearly
good enough.

------
Herald_MJ
My understanding of LibreOffice was that it existed as a fork purely as a
response to Oracle exerting excessive control over the project. Now that
Oracle has relinquished OpenOffice.org, can anyone shed some light on what the
stated goals of LibreOffice actually are? How are they distinct from
OpenOffice.org?

~~~
dfc
I guess you stopped after the first four paragraphs. The fifth reads:

"In other words, LibreOffice is becoming more than just an OpenOffice fork,
but an independent office suite in its own right. At the same time, OpenOffice
has been struggling. OpenOffice makes no bones that "Volunteers [are] needed
in all areas"."

~~~
bazzargh
Veering off the question of LibreOffice's motivation, that paragraph struck me
as bizarre. I've yet to see an open source project that _didn't_ want
volunteers in all areas.

So I clicked through to check the citation for "OpenOffice has been
struggling" is even more bizarre, as it's a link back to Zdnet with info
supposedly about IBM withdrawing support...whose only support is _another_
link back into Zdnet, and it's rebutted below by OpenOffice's Rob Weir, whose
comments were then incorporated into the article.

It does seem like Zdnet are trying really hard to manufacture controversy
here.

~~~
dfc
The giant red plea for volunteers on openoffioce.org is a little odd.

------
jrabone
We'll see. If revision tracking finally works properly (ie. interchange of
Word 97 .doc files with revision tracking doesn't just end up corrupting
horribly) then it might be useful. Until then, it's not a usable substitute
for Word. I've ended up bringing work home to edit on Windows, because
LibreOffice trashed my document.

Of course it would be nice if we didn't use Word format (and obsolete Word
format at that), in this way, but that's life in corporateville. Engineering
shall toe the party line.

~~~
cowmix
I just wish they would spend a release _just_ on the import / export filter
for Microsoft Word. It is still pretty horrible overall.

~~~
Strshps1MoreTim
It's impossible (without an AGI :) ) to reproduce all the features and bugs in
something as complex as MS Word, so import/export will never be perfect. Just
have a look at the "standard" docx format specification.

~~~
kijin
Well, nobody's expecting 100% perfection anyway. Even if they just squashed a
dozen well-known bugs such as revision tracking, that would be a major
accomplishment.

~~~
davidgerard
How to switch on revision tracking in LO:
<http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/3961/track-changes/>

Now if you're saying it's buggy as hell, that's a different matter :-)

------
ars
This doesn't bode well for the new release.

New releases after a redesign always have bugs, and since there are no user
visible changes, it's all negative and no positive for the users.

I'll be skipping this release for at least half a year.

~~~
davidgerard
This is the thing the project actually recommends: use the shiny new version
if you want new and shiny, use the previous version if you want stability.

------
chris_wot
My prediction: The Apache OpenOffice project will die. Seriously, if you had
to pick between the two, which would you choose?

~~~
Nux
Thought it's dead already. :)

------
guilloche
>they'll be using a dual licensed approach with LGPL 3.0 and the Mozilla
Public License (MPL) Version 2.0.

>On Linux, however, LibreOffice will continue to be under the LPGLv3.

I am confused, are the licenses (LGPL & MPL) for source code? the small part
of linux specific code is LGPL-licensed (not MPL)?

------
chris_wot
I love the feature list at
<https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0>

Seriously, LibreOffice is starting to feel very advanced! I'm wondering how
long it will take before it will surpass Microsoft Office!

~~~
sparx
This aint gonna happen.

~~~
chris_wot
Why is that?

~~~
Strshps1MoreTim
IMHO there are two reasons this is unlikely:

1\. MS has always been the king of "on paper" features. That was an important
reason back in the 80s and 90s for Word, Excel, PP to win the market.

2\. MS Office is by far the most profitable software product in the world,
while Libre Office is not the coolest open source project. Which means a lot
more developers on the MS side.

~~~
chris_wot
I didn't say "the most popular" Office product, I said "the most advanced".

------
ZeroGravitas
The logo (i.e. turtle graphics) integration seems really cool (in a geeky
way):

<http://libreoffice.hu/2012/11/29/logo/>

[http://libreoffice.hu/2012/12/12/logo-for-desktop-
publishing...](http://libreoffice.hu/2012/12/12/logo-for-desktop-publishing/)

------
josteink
LibreOffice: Going to be very a very good desktop office-suite _real soon now_
, just need to sort out these technical issues. Call back in a year, will you?

Ofcourse, in a year, you'll all be using web-based office suites anyway.

~~~
Revisor
I switched from MS Office to LibreOffice for lightweight document work and I'm
very satisfied with it.

I see no advantage in web-based office suites. LibreOffice + Dropbox is all
our small office needs.

~~~
josteink
Good for you. I see more people moving from on-premise Office solutions to the
cloud than the other way around though.

If you are doing any sort of collaboration across offices, Google docs
documents just seems to spring up by themselves, because _nobody_ is able to
manage an email-stream of documents in various states of updates.

Personally I've moved most (not all) my stuff to Google docs, and apart from
Excel, which still rules the spreadsheets, I find it making me much more
productive.

I can access _and update_ my documents on all my computers _and_ on all my
mobile devices on the go.

No desktop office + dropbox solution makes that painless enough to be viable.

