
Show HN: DEEP Framework – DYI Microservices on Serverless AWS (e.g. www.deep.mg) - mitocgroup
https://www.github.com/MitocGroup/deep-framework.git
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joshmn
Holy buzzwords. Much better explained on the AWS Partner Directory.

"DEEP Marketplace is an app store for serverless applications. Customers
choose functionality from listed microservices and deploy them together as an
web app into their own AWS accounts. Completely secure, fast, scalable, low-
cost and low-maintenance."

[http://www.aws-partner-
directory.com/PartnerDirectory/Partne...](http://www.aws-partner-
directory.com/PartnerDirectory/PartnerDetail?Name=Mitoc+Group+Inc)

~~~
mitocgroup
Fair point :) Will learn based on this experience and try to simplify the
documentation. Thanks for your feedback!

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mk4p
I think you need to better explain what you do.

I looked through the site and saw modules I could add . . to something.

I clicked on one module to read more about it and there was a one-line
description and an image slider whose thumnails wouldn't expand.

I like the sound of "DIY" (probably not "DYI" as in your title), I like the
sound of "Microservices" and "Serverless AWS", which sound like buzzwords I'd
like to learn more about, but the site doesn't answer those questions, even
for someone curious enough to poke around.

The template placeholders like "User review User review User review" don't
inspire the kind of confidence people will need before they "Add to cart" for
$14.99 to somehow deal with credit cards.

I realize this is "Show HN" and you're not launching. I don't mean to sound
harsh.

I do think you need to polish things more, and know that HN readers are your
actual audience.

One nitpick - clicking on the "Recommended Microservices" section leaves you
in the same position but should scroll to the top of the page.

Nitpick 2: I tried to enter my email to be notified of updates and the form
doesn't work.

~~~
eistrati
Very much appreciate your feedback! We are working on polishing it and making
it private beta. To be honest, we need a lot of help, as well as a lot of
feedback. Although this post was a hope that people will provide feedback on
deep-framework, I completely agree with you that it would be great for
www.deep.mg to be also fully functional, which is not right now. Can I ask you
to send an email to beta@deep.mg, so I could notify you when we have the
public beta instead?

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Nyetan
Zero offense intended; the following are my honest-to-goodness impressions of
your product.

1\. I have no idea what it is. DIY (presumably) microservices? And, there's a
way to use AWS without servers (is this a reference to Lambda?) The title of
your product is 'Digital Enterprise End-to-end Platform', which looks
impressive but on further inspection appears meaningless.

2\. Reading further into your github page and looking at the DEEP marketplace,
I think you're selling software-as-a-service deployments? Something like
Sandstorm or Openshift, I'd imagine.

3\. Aah, okay, so you're making an abstraction layer on top of AWS -- but it
doesn't seem like that permits any portability between cloud platforms. Is the
only benefit to using your system easy deployment onto Amazon's product?

~~~
eistrati
@Nayetan - none taken, very good and thoughtful feedback! Let me answer your
questions:

1\. DEEP is designed to be Platform-as-a-Service for serverless environments
that developers and businesses could use in their own accounts. AWS Lambda is
one of those services. The fact that right now only AWS provides the full
spectrum of services made us build it on AWS first.

2\. "Sandstorm makes it easy to run your own server" and "OpenShift gives you
all the tools you need to develop, host and scale your apps in the public or
private cloud" \- so I would say neither, because the goal as you further
described is to be able to support cross-cloud providers, while above ones are
service-specific (am I wrong?)

3\. You are correct. Right now it's an abstracted layer on AWS, and we are
planning to add in near future more providers like Azure, Google Cloud and
more. For now, it makes the developer job easy by abstracting everything
except application layer, and have it scaled at AWS size, which is virtually
infinite.

Does it make sense? And to go even further, what would you improve in our
documentation? :)

~~~
Nyetan
1\. Aah, makes sense.

2\. The similarity with openshift is due to their Marketplace [1], but it
pretty much ends there. Sandstorm as well for much the same reason (easy
deployments of premade services).

3\. Mmhm, makes sense.

As for documentation changes, please highlight what improvements your product
makes to the status quo! The 'DEEP for Developers' section tells me that it
adds abstraction on top of AWS' model services, but beyond that, I don't see
any improvement to working on the bare metal, so to speak. Like, Sandstorm [2]
(sorry, just heard about them so they're on my mind right now) says that they
handle authentication themselves. That's wonderful; I hate reimplementing auth
for every project! Or even PyPy [3]: I _could_ use CPython, but their product
runs faster and uses less memory. Why should I bother to learn DEEP and add
another level of dependency to a project?

[1]: [https://marketplace.openshift.com](https://marketplace.openshift.com)

[2]: [https://sandstorm.io/#developers](https://sandstorm.io/#developers)

[3]: [http://pypy.org/](http://pypy.org/)

~~~
mitocgroup
Again, very much appreciate your feedback. This is the main reason why we've
posted it here, to get some discussions and learn together what is relevant
nowadays to developers and what is not, so we don't have to reinvent the
wheel.

To touch base on your example with authentication, we are working on deep-
security library that everybody will be able to reuse without any effort. We
are approaching security in every layer similar Amazon IAM, and since we are
using microservices architecture, developers don't need to write any security
specific code, because it is automatically generated at deploy. Everything is
collected at deployment time from every layer and applied on AWS for backend
and database, while on frontend is exposed in UI as role-based access. Does it
make sense?

~~~
Nyetan
It's starting to come together :) I'll keep an eye on your repo; I'm still
curious about various specifics that will likely be elaborated upon in time.

~~~
mitocgroup
Thank you, Neytan! We'd be happy to notify you when we are open for public
beta, but again feel free to email at beta@deep.mg to get an early access ;)

------
rajington
Is this a [https://github.com/jaws-framework/JAWS](https://github.com/jaws-
framework/JAWS) competitor?

~~~
eistrati
Yes, it is similar approach to JAWS, with an abstraction layer that could
scale the framework and ecosystem across cloud providers. We have presented
this last week at AWS re:Invent 2015 -
[https://www.portal.reinvent.awsevents.com/connect/sessionDet...](https://www.portal.reinvent.awsevents.com/connect/sessionDetail.ww?SESSION_ID=1646&tclass=popup).
The feedback was overwhelmingly positive, so we'll continue iterating to
empower developers build and publish their microservices applications to the
marketplace; and on the other hand to enable enterprise customers to consume
and package the microservices into web apps that will be deployed into their
accounts from cloud providers like AWS.

------
eistrati
We would like to ask for feedback: What do you think is missing that would
empower you as a developer in as-a-service economy?

------
mitocgroup
Think of enterprise applications as puzzles, and think of us as puzzle
manufacturers who will help puzzle builders (developers, devops, admins, etc)
get the best puzzle for customer needs :)

------
curiousjorge
way too complicated. the logo was distracting as hell too.

~~~
mitocgroup
Thanks for your feedback! Just to make sure we can act on your feedback: Do
you mean the first diagram is distracting or which logo are you referring to?
If you would make the change, what would you improve?

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curiousjorge
just overall message is not clear as to what benefit it provides.

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mitocgroup
I guess we have tried to show the value to both developers and businesses.
Would you like to read in README more technical details or more none technical
examples on how this is already used by other people? To be honest, we have
tried to explain it similar to AngularJS, that we are using on frontend, but I
guess we failed you here.

~~~
curiousjorge
I guess it wasn't enough for me to stay and read it.

~~~
eistrati
Just out of curiosity, do you think below repo is better documented or does it
suck as well? No offense taken, as long as you are honest :)

[https://github.com/MitocGroup/deep-microservices-
helloworld](https://github.com/MitocGroup/deep-microservices-helloworld)

