
Your ‘recycled’ laptop may end up in an illegal Asian scrapyard - howard941
https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-05-21/your-recycled-laptop-may-be-incinerated-illegal-asian-scrapyard
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nkrisc
The more I learn about what happens to the electronic waste we produce, it
impacts my buying habits. I've been considering replacing my 2012 Macbook Air
with a new Macbook, but maybe I should just keep using it as long as is
absolutely possible. I mean, it still works even if it is a bit sluggish.

What would really be better was if I could upgrade it. That would help
minimize waste. The screen works perfectly fine, but I'd have to buy a whole
new screen (and everything) just to upgrade it.

Maybe I won't buy Apple anymore. Maybe I'll find a laptop that lets me upgrade
components and run Linux instead. (Any suggestions?)

I'm not going to personally have a material impact on the solution, but I can
change my habits, and maybe convince others to change theirs. If more people
knew what happens to their waste, maybe they'd change their habits too.

~~~
Scoundreller
You can sell every single part of your MacBook Air.

LCD, keyboard, trackpad, SSD logic board, power board, wifi card, etc. Even
the screws.

I sold every single component of mine (except the battery which was put into a
bin at ikea).

Just follow the ifixit guides and buy one of the% $2 screwdrivers.

It behooves you to do so to keep other units out of the e-waste trade.

% _the_ screwdrivers, you don’t have to buy it from ifixit.

~~~
germinalphrase
Did you sell them on EBay?

~~~
Scoundreller
Yes. With ample re-use of bubble wrap and cardboard from other Ebay and Amazon
packaging.

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scarface74
I’m sure someone could find a use for an old working computer or a non profit.
Unlike 10 years ago, a 10 year old computer is still useful and can run modern
software and get on the internet.

I had a 2006 Core Duo Mac Mini 1.66Ghz with a 60GB hard drive, 1.25GB RAM and
gigabit Ethernet. It’s useless as a Mac and Apple abandoned it years ago. But,
I put Windows 7 on it, installed a Chrome and my mom installed Office 2010 and
she uses it as a secondary computer when she tutors.

I bought a refurbished all in one Sony Desktop back in 2007 - a Core Duo
1.66GHz, 2Gb RAM, 1600x1050 display 19 inch display, 250GB hard drive 10/100
Ethernet. I installed Windows 7 on it to and it’s my moms primary computer.
She uses it with Chrome and Office.

I was given my 2009-2010 era Dell when the company I was working for
collapsed. 8GB of RAM, Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz, gigabit Ethernet, one of the last
great 1920x1200 displays. The only times it feels slow even today running
Windows 10 is reading and writing from the spinning hard drive. That could be
improved by replacing it with an SSD. It served as my Plex server until
earlier this year. It struggled with 1080p video but it did alright at lower
resolutions up to two streams.

Then there is my Pentium Dual Core for 2009 with 4GB RAM that I put Windows 7
on. It would still be good for someone. It has a 1600x900 display and 802.11n
wireless.

But don’t just give people the old computer as is. Clean it up and install the
OS from scratch.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
I volunteer a lot for a large charity thrift shop. I strongly caution against
this idea.

Old electronics are absolutely the most difficult thing for us to sell, and
they take up considerable space. A 10 year old computer is essentially
worthless, because at the very least it's pretty easy to get a 5 year old
computer for free or nearly free. The idea that "it is still usable" is not
the right way to think about it. The right way to think about it is "are there
any people who would want this computer, even for free", and I can tell you
with a lot of evidence that the answer is basically "no".

The simple fact is we are just swimming in too much obsolete e-waste. IMO
sales of electronic devices should be appropriately taxed with a "cleanup" tax
to pay for their eventual responsible disposal/recycling.

~~~
scarface74
I didn’t say “donate it for sell”. Every example I listed was someone had a
need for a computer and give it to them. There are charities that need
computers to use. Talk to them first and see if they actually have a use for
them, clean them up, install the software they need and give them training and
support.

Don’t just give an old desktop with no cords, without a mouse, monitor etc.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
My point still stands. The charity that owns the thrift store where I
volunteer has about twenty paid staff that work in an office. Trust me, they
don't want to be using your 10 year old computer either, that's much more
likely to break, and be incompatible with other software, and this would only
be compounded exponentially if the sole IT person needed to support 20
different obsolete machines. You say "install the software they need and give
them training and support." So you're going to be available if they call you
at 3pm on a Tuesday because your 10 year-old hard drive failed?

Look, I'm not saying there is absolutely no one that wants your machine, but
one of my biggest pet peeves after volunteering in a thrift store for so long
is people who donate items that no one really wants, primarily to assuage
their guilt. Sometimes garbage is just garbage.

~~~
scarface74
What will in my example a 10 year old Mac Mini with USB 2, Bluetooth, gigabit
Ethernet running Windows 7 and the latest version of Chrome be incompatible
with? A lot of software these days are run from a web browser.

My 8 year old Core 2 Duo running Windows 10 can run my entire development
stack - VSCode with Python, Node, and C#. I tried it and until it starts
swapping, you can’t tell the difference in normal use.

As far as support. How is it easier or harder to support an older computer
running Windows + Office + Chrome than a newer computer?

In fact my new computer I bought in 2016 has the same amount of RAM - 8GB, a
slightly worse display (1920x1080 vs 1920x1200), and no gigabit Ethernet as my
old Dell from 2009.

------
yjftsjthsd-h
So the illegal part here is the lack of protections for the environment and
workers, which is valid, but there's no reason for "recycled" to be in scare
quotes; the process described is literally recycling. Unregulated recycling
that's bad for the environment, but it's still breaking down waste into useful
raw materials, so it still counts.

EDIT: Another objection to the framing here:

> “American people should address this issue. You have to fix your own
> problems. Don’t dump waste into Thailand — or any developing country.”

... _or_ , you could not accept it. Y'know, "fix your own problems" rather
than pointing your finger at big bad America.

~~~
TaylorAlexander
America exercises significant control over our poorer trade partners, and we
have great power here. We could require oversight and review of our e-waste
recycling partners, or we can just dump our waste out of sight and claim no
responsibility in the matter. One approach would solve the problem, and one
shifts blame to someone much less power to really solve the problem.

~~~
Scoundreller
That’s still hard to do. I think consumers would care more if we just held
unreliable manufacturers to account.

Either make stuff that keeps working or the manufacturer has to pay to repair
it. We do it with cars (lemon law), why not everything else that’s repairable.

Spare parts must be available, or else.

Repair schematics must be made available. A competitor can reverse engineer
anything anyway, so the benefit of being secretive is outweighed by consumer
interests.

Finally, more effort toward “second-lifing” old stuff instead of shredding it.
E.g. old phones as security cameras.

~~~
jolfdb
You don't need all those weird rules, all you need is a recycling tax on the
product, and let market forces sort it out.

~~~
Scoundreller
How do you determine the tax? Is the government to determine how long
different car models and manufacturers will last?

Even if you charge a flat tax ($50 per laptop), there’s still little incentive
for the manufacturer to provide ongoing support.

Don’t underestimate the power of marketing to convince people to ignore the
future.

~~~
HeWhoLurksLate
That $50 flat tax will also make it harder for anyone new to compete (the
practicality of which seems to be getting higher instead of lower with all
these SBC's and the like). Don't underestimate the power of law to shape the
future of companies, and which ones survive.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
That's why we need to create a culture of durable and expandable computer
hardware, something completely opposite of current Apple consumer offering.

Shame on companies that glue batteries to the enclosure and do similar
atrocities, explaining the purpose of it as the product being a bit thinner
(as if anybody cared) with the hidden motive of planned obsolescence.

~~~
jolfdb
Gluing batteries and similar techniques make products more robust to damage.
Apple hardware is absolutely famous for surviving far longer than competing
products. A 10 yr old functioning Mac is not unusual.

~~~
lostlogin
> A 10 yr old functioning Mac is not unusual.

This means that Apple was good 10 years ago.

------
psim1
“I’ve been investigating these guys, and they look just like normal
businessmen. So, what makes them stand out? No matter which [illegal factory]
we raid, we always find the owner is from China.”

Chinese opportunists can no longer get away with it in China, so they are
exploiting nearby developing nations to do their dirty work.

~~~
jolfdb
China is catching up on USA's special talents.

------
paulcole
As long as I’m told it was recycled, I’m fine.

I know I’m being lied to constantly and there’s nothing I can do about it.

------
mysterypie
> _Basel Action Network or BAN, a Seattle-based nonprofit, for years, has
> stuck GPS trackers in old electronic junk. They found that scrapyard in
> Thailand by planting a tracker in a TV and dropping it off at an Australian
> recycling center._

Not that they likely to get in trouble, but is it legal to put trackers even
if it is donations? What if you stuck a camera and microphone in the TV and it
ended up in someone’s home after being repaired.

~~~
recycledmatt
These aren’t traditional cell phones, think more GPS units with a cellular
chip so they can report back their location.

One issue with these is they have batteries, and are placed in devices like
printers that no e-scrap processor ever checks for batteries. Many US domestic
processors use large shredding systems to liberate the materials. Batteries
and shredders don’t mix!

~~~
HeWhoLurksLate
Yeah, that's a good point. There are batteries that _don 't_ explode when
poked, right?

