
Ask YC: Why do you recommend a Macbook? - kirubakaran
I started my programming love life with Apple //c. After that, I've mostly used relatively inexpensive laptops running Linux / school PCs.<p>But I am seeing almost all 'budding hackers' nowadays coding on a Macbook/pro. Startup School is full of Macs!<p>pg said that Mac lets him drag and drop code from vim to repl - and he was very happy about it. Is it little things like that or is there a cumulative reduction in friction everywhere that justifies the bigger price tag? Is customizing a Mac easy or do they throw arbitrary hurdles at you like with the iPod/iPhone?<p>I currently run Gutsy on Lenovo T61 for dev. I don't want to miss out on the Mac if there are significant advantages.
======
tx
I switch between Macbook and Thinkpad/Ubuntu almost daily. Why? Because I get
bored on either of them fairly quickly :-)

I love both of them, but my vote goes towards Ubuntu/Linux (and I mainly code
on ThinkPad) for three reasons:

1\. Most hackers' software is native on Linux, although nearly all of it
exists for OS X. But nothing beats Debian/Ubuntu's aptitude: nearly everything
imaginable is a few keystrokes away: can installed and pre-configured in
seconds. And guaranteed to "just work".

2\. Apple's hardware is no match to IBM's. UltraNav combo kicks ass, and I
feel crippled and slowed down when using a touchpad of other laptops,
including Apple's.

3\. Linux is more flexible. It's not the "sysadmin carp" that some people from
the 90s complain about, it's genuine flexibility that comes with choice. There
are many more different terminal apps, different ways to manage workspaces,
various window management plug-ins, screensavers even! OS X is more
commercialized.

Besides, I dislike some of Apple's software. iTunes is number one on my hate-
list. :-)

~~~
papersmith
"3. Linux is more flexible. It's not the "sysadmin carp" that some people from
the 90s complain about, it's genuine flexibility that comes with choice. There
are many more different terminal apps, different ways to manage workspaces,
various window management plug-ins, screensavers even! OS X is more
commercialized."

Agreed. It'd be nice if there's an up-to-date binary repo of MacPorts
packages. Flint has apt-get for binary packages, but a lot of them are pretty
outdated.

------
manvsmachine
I speak from limited experience with Macs, but I'd think that a lot of it has
to do with the 'out of the box' experience. I'm running Gutsty right now too
and I have it tweaked just the way I like it, but it can take some time /
effort to get everything set up "your way". Of course, none of this applies if
you're running the stock Gutsy config, but why would you want to do that?
Essentially OSX is for people who want the benefits of *nix but don't enjoy,
or can't spend the time, hacking their OS as much as hacking their code.

@robmnl: Expose functionality is built into compiz-fusion, and Linux users
have been enjoying virtual desktops for god knows how long.

------
jey
Because it's the best desktop unix machine available. Where else can you find
true unix with a great user experience and full hardware and software support?

I don't use Linux because I no longer enjoy doing sysadmin crap. I also like
the MacOS UI.

~~~
davidw
I don't think it's as good a desktop experience as OSX, but for a hacker,
Ubuntu isn't half bad, and continues to improve by leaps and bounds. Less and
less 'sysadmin crap' is necessary these days.

And you can get an Ubuntu machine from Dell that is very well supported.

I wouldn't recommend it to my parents, just yet (they're happy with OSX), but
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Dell+Ubuntu to people here. It might not be
as sexy, but it's a setup that works pretty well. I had a tibook a number of
years ago, and while it was certainly a beautiful machine that got lots of
looks, in the end, I'm just as happy with my ugly clunky (but cheap and well
supported) Dell.

~~~
jey
Yeah, if I was optimizing on price I would just get a Dell laptop and throw
Ubuntu on it. (Although I would make sure that all the hardware is well-
supported first. I have spent far too many hours patching kernels and
adjusting parameters when using Linux with brand new hardware.)

~~~
davidw
You can buy Dells with Ubuntu on them:

<http://www.dell.com/ubuntu>

It was pretty cool to get it, open it up, and see it boot Ubuntu. I admit I
did have to tweak it just a bit (about 15 minutes of googling and config
files), but I think it was one of the first ones, hopefully they've gotten
even better. I chatted with some of the guys working on it at OSCON last year,
and they wrote down a few of the bugs I had found.

~~~
doubleplus
I got one of these right after they came out, too. Having had no experience
with Linux before then, I've spent more than 15 minutes at a time figuring out
how to get things to work. Right away, it was a couple nights on nvidia driver
and wpa support. And since then, about once a month, I'll have to spend a
whole night or two figuring something else out... last weekend it was
something with generic vs rt kernels for ubuntustudio. Anyhoo, looking back, I
wouldn't suggest it to any relative novices (like me) who really just want to
use their computer to accomplish normal tasks, and who aren't into tinkering
for the sake of it. Gnome/KDE in K/Ubuntu are really convenient and slick
29/30 days, but to be honest, I'm getting tired of fighting my computer and
I'll likely pick up a Mac when I get a new desktop this summer.

~~~
Jd
Ditto. I also acquired a Dell+Ubuntu in 6/07. Switched to a Macbook in 10/07.
If you are making decent contract money it just isn't worth the hassle to, for
instance, try and get a decent music playing software w/ the appropriate codec
support.

~~~
davidw
Well, if what you want out of a computer is simply and exclusively tool, then
some proprietary system might well be better, although Ubuntu is getting
close.

If, on the other hand, you relish the ability to open things up and hack on
them if needs be (whence "Hacker News"), then the extra effort 'fighting' with
Linux is often time well spent. It's a good feeling to know a system from the
ground up, or (as is the case for most of us), at least be able to figure out
bits and pieces from time to time.

------
mixmax
I tried to switch over to a mac a year ago. It didn't work, so I switched back
after three months. I found that a lot of little things were annoying, and
made me spend more time than I needed on doing trivial things sucha as
resizing of windows. On mac it can only be done from one corner, on windows
from all four. There are lots of these little things that mean you have to
spend three clicks instead of two. I see why they make sense if you're a
beginner - it's almost impossible to do anything wrong. Other things that
annoy me the fact that it is impossible to find a lot of the little shareware
programs I use under windows, and that their equivalent of Outlook really
sucks. And I simply don't understand why there is only one mousebutton. That
alone was enough to switch back.

Overall my opinion of macs is that they are excellent for beginners, and for
looking cool in the cafes but for me it simply didn't make the cut for serious
work.

I don't code, but work in outlook, excel, word and a browser. This might make
make a difference.

~~~
utx00
I code. I had the exact same experience.

This is two years ago and things might have improved. But the ports system did
not have that much software, I didn't like the feel of the keyboard, it's a
huge heat sink (and then in cold NY mornings it would be cold to the touch
when I started it), I didn't like the anti-alising, I didn't like the default
terminal program (and couldn't be bothered to get a new one ... that was the
point of getting a powerbook in the first place - all the supposedly annoying
sysadmin things I wouldn't have to do). java support was horrible too (that
might be better - and besides this is not a java crowd)

I didn't like all the proprietary formats for iphoto, and itunes either.

oh and yeah. I have a lot of mail. The import into Mail.app took days. It was
ok after that. But once again, the mail files use a proprietary tagging system
to know when mail is read and what not. It wasn't fun porting that back to
maildir.

try ubuntu. you might like.

~~~
mixmax
It's interesting to hear a coder having some of the same experiences. And btw
I had the exact same problem with porting mails, except it took me around
three days to get working.

I'm actually dual booting w. windows and Ubuntu to try it out. And I like it.

------
iowahansen
I'm generally a person that values function more than form, but I have to say
it is a real daily joy to work on gorgeous hardware like a Macbook Pro. The
reason Macs are more expensive because they only offer high-end hardware
specs. A similar spec'ed Dell comes roughly at the same price. If you are
hacker, always use the best tools there are. This is an invest in yourself.

Hardware aside, the real reason you should switch is OSX and the applications
around it. Stuff just works. Sounds like a marketing message but its true. You
can focus on accomplishing the task rather than wrestling with shortcomings
and crutches of the environment. Application developers on the Mac also have
the philosophy to integrate with existing services as much as possible, which
makes a huge difference, because most of the stuff you use is able to talk to
each other. Compare that to Windows where every application/service is its own
island.

Imho, OSX is by far the best platform out there right now bar none. It's
amazing to see how even non-hackers are blown away once they switch.

You should too.

~~~
scooter53080
>A similar spec'ed Dell comes roughly at the same price.

I believe that Macs are awesome. I want one! But the same price argument
doesn't fly. When I bought a new laptop about a year ago, I ended up with a
Dell 'cause the same spec'd MBP was double the price, and I couldn't justify
the expense. Having a quick look on the respective web sites, that is still
roughly the case today. That makes for a pretty expensive OS.

~~~
utx00
don't drink the cool aid and save your money. the last straw for me was a bsd
socket problem that used to cause crashes on clisp (if you google it you'll
find it. circa 2005) -- went back to debian, and i don't even know whatever
became of that problem.

your dell is fine.

------
willchang
Devices always work on Windows first, and then drivers are eventually made for
UNIX. Software that make hackers productive are always first in UNIX, and then
eventually ported to Windows. A hacker who had to use one system for
everything is faced with either the horror of having to use XFree86 or the
horror of having to build an executable in Windows. Traditionally people got
around the problem by having a Windows PC for the devices and a UNIX server
for getting work done. With a Mac, you often get the best of both systems in
one machine: devices just work, and compiling UNIX software is easy.

------
jdavid
i almost bought a macbook pro for the screen. mac makes it easy for you to get
a non glossy high def display. you can now even get LED backlit which should
give brighter whites, better contrast, and longer backlight life.

the rest of the manufactures are behind mac in display tech.

i ended up going with a dell precision because of dells support for ubuntu,
and i could get better hardware than the mac for $1000 less, with a 3 accident
warranty. So basically for $2500 i have a machine that is faster, and will be
replaced for free in the 3 years of its useful life, for $1k less than a mac
book pro. in the end i could not justify spending $1k for an operating system.
$250 maybe.

~~~
jamesbritt
"the rest of the manufactures are behind mac in display tech."

I was looking at macbooks, but did not see one that had a 15" screen that ran
1920x1200.

I went with a Dell D830, for the 15" WUXGA screen and for the clit mouse
(since I find trackpads distracting and less precise than the TrakPoint
thingie).

I'm (more or less) happily running Kubuntu on it.

------
dbryson
I have a macbook which I run linux on. I get the best of both worlds having a
great laptop with lots of 3rd party hardware(and now x86). And all the fun of
recompiling my kernel.

~~~
utx00
well there you go. although i don't know how much fun anyone can have
recompiling kernels ;)

cheers.

~~~
kirubakaran
My friends and I used to drink cold beer while the kernel recompiled in the
background. Happy times. Almost 10 years ago! (Kingfisher (Indian beer))

~~~
maximilian
I can see it now: "Dude! New kernel is out!", "I'll get the beer... Psssh,
crack, glug glug glug"

Never before were nerds _that_ excited about recompiling the kernel.

~~~
kirubakaran
Us = geeks.

( geeks are nerds who can get laid ;) )

------
moog
Is there a cumulative reduction in friction everywhere? I'd say yes. I've used
Unix, PC and Mac for years and have always found I get more done and am
happier when it's on a Mac.

~~~
jgrahamc
Agreed, I feel the same way about my MBP. Basically, I've used all sorts of
things for years (going back to CP/M machines, via DOS and every flavor of
Windows, SuSE, Fedora, Ubuntu, ... ) and the Mac is the right combination:

1\. Stuff that I need to get done just works (e.g. sync my Bluetooth phone to
address book, hook up to wireless networks, do backups)

2\. Aesthetically pleasing. Don't discount this when it comes to hackers... we
like elegant code and machines.

3\. Unix underneath... no loss of power.

------
Excedrin
I run Arch Linux on my Macbook Pro. I don't like the hardware at all, it feels
cheap in comparison to the Thinkpad it replaced.

------
maximilian
I think many of you are missing the number 1, in my book, best part about mac
laptops: Sleep! It works brilliantly. I close the lid and it sleeps, keeping
the RAM alive for up to a week. When I wanna use my computer again I just open
it up and within a couple of seconds I'm back at it. I know windows laptops
can do something similar, but its not implemented anywhere nearly as well and
is a deal breaker for me. I don't have experience with linux laptops, but I
imagine its at best as good as windows laptops.

I cannot emphasize enough how useful sleep is. I go to the library, open it
up, start working, close it. Move to another desk. Open it up, start working,
close it. Go to the coffee shop with friend. Have a tea, then open it up to
show him a plot from the hw, bring up the plot (without waiting for it to
restore...), show buddy, and close the lid again. All this happens with
minimal battery loss.

That is the biggest reason i love my powerbook. If I _was_ going to get a
"windows" laptop, I'd get a thinkpad and put ubuntu on it.

------
utx00
You're not missing out on anything, there are no significant advantages
(specially not over a t61) I sold my powerbook on ebay, and I'm still happy
with my t42 running gutsy as well.

~~~
darjen
Almost all of my coworkers use Thinkpads. I started off on a T43, and have
recently been upagraded to T60. Would never trade it in for a mac.

~~~
utx00
Good for you. I started out on a T20 (I'm old). Still have it. Still love it.
One of these days I'll move up to a T60 or whatever. For now, T42 still kicks
a$$.

~~~
Zak
I started out with a Powerbook 140, and I don't think 26 counts as old here. I
have a T20 too - 6th laptop I've owned. I've rebuilt it 3 or 4 times and
replaced everything but the screen at some point. It's a good machine aside
from having an annoying tendency to corrupt the contents of its CMOS chip.

I've noticed both Apple and IBM/Lenovo dropping in quality over the past 10
years or so. I have a Thinkpad 600X from 1998 or so - it's made mostly of
carbon fiber, with a rubber coating. My Z61m is made mostly of cheap plastic,
though it does have a metal frame and titanium lid. Apple uses either
polycarbonate or aluminum, but seems to have a high rate of logic board
failures. I'm not a huge fan of metal on the surfaces of a laptop that come in
to contact with my body during use either - it transmits heat.

------
plusbryan
I was a mac user when macs weren't cool. Mac OS 9 was like that edgy indie
band that suddenly became an overnight success. Sellouts! :-)

~~~
bobochan
Hey, I remember upgrading from my thoroughly cool //e to my first Mac -- they
were VERY cool at the start. Macs were more like a cool band that has a huge
first album, kind of loses their way for a couple of records and then gets the
mojo back with a monster record that leaves everybody nodding, "I love these
guys!"

~~~
dhimes
I got one of the first mac plus machines. A full 1MB of RAM.

People said, "you'll never run out of memory!"

Great machine, though. Hacked some assembly for the 86000.

------
ibgeek
You shouldn't make decisions like this based on hype or other people's
opinions. It's personal thing. You are the one who has to be happy and
productive on the platform -- no one else -- so why let someone else determine
what you use?

~~~
hollerith
Uh, he's asking for advice now before he spends $2000 or so on a MBP. Of
course, if he buys it and hates it, he'll go back to what he is using now.

------
rcoder
I use a MBP at home, because there's nothing within a light-year of Lightroom
(or Aperture, which is pretty much an equivalent package) for RAW photo
workflow. If it weren't for that single piece of software, I could switch to
Ubuntu/Debian full-time and be quite happy.

When I'm at work writing code, it's 98% Linux, with occasional compatibility
testing on a Mac or Windows system. Apache, Vim, Ruby, and PostgreSQL all run
just as well on Debian as they do on a Mac, and a lot of other packages work
much, much better -- plus, they're just an 'apt-get' away.

------
mynameishere
Yes, there is a huge advantage to using Macs:

<http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9849949-39.html>

------
alps
When Linux can get it's GUI in shape, I will gladly move to it. I will miss
TextMate dearly, but I will use Linux when the GUI (Gnome and KDE) people can
get this one thing correct:

Separation between line editing commands, and GUI commands.

It is very simple. What happens on Linux when you are in Thunderbird and you
do "^a"? It selects all! What happens when you do that on the command line? It
takes you to the beginning of the line! Why a different experience for the
exact same _universal_ command?

On a Mac, "^a" _always_ brings you to the beginning of the line, whether you
are in Terminal, a Safari text edit box, a Mail email message, etc. "command
a" _always_ selects all, whether you are in Terminal, a Safari text edit box,
a Mail email message, etc. The same goes for "^k", "^y", "^e", etc.

Cocoa uses basic Emacs bindings, and the user experience because of it is
hands down better. I drove myself nuts on Windows for 3 months, then Linux for
8 until I told my employer that I either get a Mac or I leave. They gave me a
Mac. My hands, brain, productivity, and my employer are all better off as a
result.

------
eugenejen
I am speaking from hard customization aspect. I like MacBook better than
MacBook Pro in this domain. It is relatively painless to replace hard drive
and memory inside a MacBook. Of course I need to do some research to know the
power consumption of hard drive and memory before I ordered replacement, so I
can avoid overheat inside my MacBook. MacBook pro is great in its dedicated
graphic chip and better range of view angle of its TFT display. But to replace
a hard drive, it takes pain to remove all screws and lift up cables around the
disk. And from what I read from Guy Kawasaki's blog, you can't return a beefed
up MacBook back to Apple if you feel it is not what you want.

I went for MacBook because it is painless to add memory and upgrade disk. And
I don't mind its less than perfect graphic performance and display because I
use external LCD monitor when I can. It is smaller in size and light in weight
so it is easier to carry around and it is 50% cheaper than MacBook Pro. I get
what I paid for but also a little bit less hassle to mod it.

------
mk
Aqua looks nicer than any windows manager has to offer. I run Ubuntu for my
work desktop, and Debian for servers, but at home I have a macbook and a mac
mini running 10.5. Before that I had a powerbook for 4 years. They are all
awesome machines. I didn't have to spend time tweaking config settings to try
to get the sound card working, or deal with updating and breaking everything.
On OS X I've never had to fix something after an update, and sound always
works. I'm not dissing any linux distros, but they are truly for hackers that
want to spend time tweaking on things getting them to work and dealing with
problems. OS X allows me to get more work done because I'm not dealing with
those hassles yet I still have vim/emacs/whatever other unix app I want to
install. The only complaint I have is that the packaging doesn't seem to be as
good as Debian/FreeBSD/Gentoo. Maybe this has changed in the last couple
years, but Macports and fink never really worked out all that well for me.

------
bluelu
Once you have started working with a trackpoint, you will never want to go
back to a touchpad. It feels like making a step backwards.

------
tienshiao
\- A solid UNIX underneath. I don't care in the trademark sense. I care in the
"beats Cygwin" sense. Real terminals. Most things you need from Linux will
build.

\- A solid GUI on top. Everything is largely cohesive. No half the apps
running KDE themes and the other half of the apps running Gnome themes.

\- Better supported by hardware and software vendors than Linux.

No need to mess figure out wireless, Bluetooth, power management,
sleep/hibernate multi-button mice, free vs non-free drivers, multi-monitor
mirroring/spanning etc issues. It all pretty much just works.

Someone said since this is "Hacker News", you shouldn't mind spending some
time figuring it out. Bullshit. I don't have enough time to hack the stuff I
want to hack, let alone the minutiae I don't want to hack.

I work with Linux all day. I don't feel particularly enlightened by knowing
how to config X by hand (I am quite excited that we're past that point now)
and how to use multiple mouse buttons with imwheel.

------
hollywoodcole
Funny how when you are about to buy something expensive as a Macbook Pro you
do a lot of research and then you see other people asking a question like this
for you.

I'm about to buy a Macbook Pro last-gen and I just thought that was weird!

------
mickt
If I'd never used Linux I wouldn't know as much as I so know about OS's, if
I'd used a Mac all these years I'd probably know naught (or a lot less). But,
that's part of the value of using a Mac, you don't need to know about the OS
which is probably a good point for non-techie or non-geekie users.

I don't have a Mac but do think they're cool, hardware that works, OS that
works, but I'd be concerned about the lock-in that comes from using
proprietary software that comes with it; such as managing my 12GB photograph
collection.

------
tokipin

      pg said that Mac lets him drag and drop code from vi to repl - and he was very happy about it
    

you can do that on any OS with the GUI shell for Vim (with Vim running in Vi
compatible mode if that matters) [edit]: actually it doesn't look like it's
possible. i could have sworn it was though <.< my bad

i'm guessing the iPod has something to do with macs becoming more popular

~~~
kirubakaran
I tried this now but it didn't work for me. I must be missing something.
Please help.

I am running GVIM (I am at work so I am on Windows). I am trying to drag and
drop a block of code to Python REPL. It is not happening.

~~~
ibgeek
Ummm... copy and paste?

~~~
spydez
Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V isn't exactly the same thing as drag 'n' drop...

~~~
ibgeek
On my Macbook, my windows often always overlap because the resolution just
isn't high enough to "stretch out." So, I find that dragging and dropping is
actually more difficult due to having to switch windows.

------
robmnl
stable, affordable, good user interface. expose and spaces are time savers.

big no is battery time.

I don't think you're missing out on too much if you primarily code.

------
natch
1) Productivity. I get a lot more done.

2) Great UNIX implementation.

3) Great file/user/permission organization.

4) Super-easy backups, with no command line switches to remember.

5) Since I have a Mac, my boss steers me toward fun projects like getting
started with iPhone development.

6) Feeling of investing in myself, making a commitment to getting a lot done.
Turns out the Mac helps a LOT with that.

------
jmtulloss
I find a macbook with 2 virtual machines (linux/windows) gives me the power I
need, the operating system I love, and the flexibility to develop in any and
all environments.

Plus, the size of the macbook is perfect when it's not your primary computer.
It's the best piece of hardware I've ever owned.

------
mrtron
It is physically well made. I beat the crap out of my macbook and it puts up
with the abuse without problem.

It is fast and reliable. It is portable. I would pay double the price for how
great it is.

------
comatose_kid
The keyboard feels great on the macbook pros. The downside is the lame
insistence on a single mouse button.

~~~
projectileboy
I would have agreed once upon a time, but now I either use my mighty mouse, or
else the two finger tap.

~~~
rksprst
The two finger tap is easier to use than a right mouse button, IMO.

------
graywh
OS X is often easier than Windows and powerful like *Nix/BSD.

The plastic case on the MacBook isn't the strongest, though.

------
jharper
Synergy of ...

\- An apple interface (streamlined and beautiful).

\- Awesome performance/security/organization of unix.

~~~
utx00
is this too old to still be considered valid?

<http://www.techworld.com/security/news/index.cfm?newsid=1798>

------
thaumaturgy
There are some things about Macs that drive me a little nuts, same as any
other system, but they do have the very most awesomest terminal program in
existence. I can spend ten hours straight in ssh terminals on those things,
and that makes 'em almost worth the price tag for me.

------
loumf
Not everything I do with a computer is programming. For everything else I do,
a Mac is perfect. And it's a pretty good dev machine.

------
yason
I don't recommend. I don't really. I tried, but I don't.

Coming from a long Linux history dating back to mid-nineties, I have used Macs
for about three years. My first was a Powerbook P4 and now I've had my
MacBookPro for about two years. Now my next laptop is going to be a Linux
friendly non-Mac for running Ubuntu exclusively.

I liked the smoothness of OS X and how it all fits together. Then little irks
surfaced: there's no decent system for installing/uninstalling applications,
and absolutely nothing compared to apt in Ubuntu/Debian. Back to manual
installations and manual upgrades. Ok, it was the Mac way and I adapted.
Though, I started to avoid large software installations because upgrading
turned out to be a real hassle. Uninstallation was different every time: it
wasn't even as straight-forward as the ad hoc uninstaller mess in Windows. At
least you can invoke that from one single place which helps in trying out
applications.

DarwinPorts was easy but took forever to source-compile even the first
installations of some essential applications, so I never upgraded them unless
I had to. And I couldn't find everything I wanted from DarwinPorts. And it
conflicted with some existing unix system software.

Luckily, I could build Emacs locally with --enable-carbon-app from CVS and at
least the most important item in my toolchain worked pretty well, and looked
nice.

Then various other limitations started to kick in. No decent terminal that
could use the left Apple key as meta. Nothing major, but it really killed my
thumb. Luckily I could configure carbon-Emacs to work like that so I started
using terminals inside Emacs buffers... In a way I was in no way against that.

Eventually crappy window management started to stress me. I couldn't get my
highly desired focus-follows-mouse from anywhere (or by installing any 3rd
party utility!), or even keep certain windows on top while typing into a lower
window. But I adapted and changed my working habits, trying to compromise with
tricky virtual desktop configuration (with VirtuaDesktop or something).

Then utf-8 filenames between Linux and OS X turned out incompatible: Mac
normalizes them and Linux doesn't. Boom, lots of problems with my version
control running on a Linux server when filenames changed by themselves. I
ended up renaming some of my essential files to plain ASCII, but I really
didn't like the way where I was going.

And I don't even want to start with FileVault whose only purpose seemed to be
corrupting my files and making logins take like half an hour after reboots. It
may work for a few dozen Word documents and some configuration files but
putting a heavy home directory of several gigabytes on it just doesn't work.

Eventually, the best desktop Unix didn't do unix for me well enough. I was
basically having a huge hassle trying to run on OS X the applications I'd run
on a Linux system. There was the desktop which was pretty worthless given that
I couldn't run my stuff as easily as on Linux/X11. And try compile ogg123 on
OS X! It worked on the P4 (Panther) but I never found a good binary nor
working source code for MBP (Tiger). How's that relevant? The answer is cplay,
the ultimate mp3+ogg+mod+sid player for any decent unix. Cplay is compatible
with my directory-rather-than-id3-tag based music collection and it supports
these exotic like playsid and mikmod players. I never got it fully working on
OS X.

There was a pivotal issue, which I can't remember now, but which caused OS X
to start sucking so badly that I installed Refit and put Ubuntu Dapper on my
MBP at once. It had something to do with some bizarre software restrictions
imposed by the OS X.

I had the usual hassle of configuring the Linux to work on the relatively
alien Apple hardware but it took a day or two and then I had a Linux system
that could hibernate and sleep just like OS X. I didn't compile a kernel for
that, FYI. And at the same time I had all my good old applications working out
of the box from Ubuntu's apt repositories. Installing the essential packages
was a breeze and I got mostly the same desktop back that I had abandoned 2-3
years ago. System maintenance and hassle went immediately to zero. Filenames
started working again, cross-installations. The unix had returned. Funnily
enough, the same hardware has worked flawlessly for almost half a year now,
running Linux. Sure, some parts don't work. Webcam - I don't need it. Most
notably the fglrx driver sucks, failing at suspend/hibernate. I have to run
Xorg with vesa and that doesn't give me 1440x900 but 1152x864, but it's still
good enough.

As a reply to the OP: I don't know. Your mileage will vary: you won't miss out
on the Mac unless you try it first. Then decide.

------
kingkongrevenge
> 'budding hackers' nowadays coding on a Macbook

Why hack on a laptop? Why not use a desktop that's much cheaper, much more
powerful, much more reliable, and easy to fix in one day? You can get two for
the price of a new laptop.

If you're on the road with sufficient frequency that you actually need a
laptop to work then you're probably a salesman or manager, not a hacker.

I can get to all my data from any machine: everything is on the web or
accessible by ssh. I don't need to lug one with me. Paper works fine for the
occasional six hour period away from a machine.

I do have an old laptop I sync to my desktop with unison to use on the road
when need be, but that's just not very often.

~~~
jmtulloss
To work with other people wherever they end up. We're not working in some
cubicle day in and day out, we need to go to our co-workers and sit there next
to them hacking on problems. I prefer hacking on my desktop too, but I could
not operate without the ability to take my work with me.

~~~
kingkongrevenge
> sit there next to them hacking on problems

This is high level design, no? It works fine on paper/white-board. You sit
alone to refine it and do any implementation. You pair program on one machine
if someone is clueless and being ramped up.

~~~
jmtulloss
I find that it can be useful to just be in the same room when working on
dependent, if separate tasks. It's often necessary to nail down details as
you're thinking through every possible different situation, which really only
occurs once you're coding every possible situation.

------
albertcardona
I used a PowerBook Ti 3.5 1Ghz for 4 years and I loved it. But since most of
my programming is in java (whatever), I _had_ to switch. The last year I
simply run ubuntu-ppc.

IMO:

The best of apple laptops: (1) long battery life, (2) bright screens, (3) very
comfortable keyboards -if you remap the apple keys to control.

The worst of apple laptops: (1) they get burning hot -even new macbook pros;
(2) the spinning beachball (of death) can get to your nerves -too much
swapping; (3) their sharp edge will hurt your wrists -as opposed to a
smoothened, curvy Thinkpad T60 (my current).

------
newt0311
Personally, I got a macbook for the amazing hardware design. It is one of the
few laptops I have seen which is sleek, beautiful, and very very effective.
The laptop is very well designed. OS X is also well designed but for a
different demographic. Thats why I use Linux for the software. Still, the
hardware design is amazing.

------
curi
for the GUI, macs are the best, it's not close

for the unixy stuff, macs do a good job, but they don't blow linux away

macs make lots of stuff more convenient. customizing is no problem for
anything especially important. you can also download stuff to change, say, the
builtin Dock, if you want.

i strongly recommend a mac. but consider a macbook (not pro) if you're worried
about price. pro only has a certain limited set of advantages you might not
need.

