
Never Going Back - A Week of Not Eating Lunch at My Desk - randomdrake
http://randomdrake.com/2014/01/09/never-going-back-a-week-of-not-eating-lunch-at-my-desk/
======
marknutter
Sometimes I like to eat lunch at my desk, other times I eat in the dining area
with co-workers, and other times I eat out. Why does it need to be an all or
nothing proposition? There are days when I'm very busy on a problem and I
don't want the distraction of taking lunch so I'll either eat it at my desk or
eat something low impact like a protein bar/shake. Alternatively when I get
stuck on a problem I'll take a longer lunch and get away from my computer for
a while.

~~~
randomdrake
This is an excellent point. To answer your question: I don't think it needs to
be an all or nothing proposition.

For me, I had acquiesced to _always_ eating at my desk; convincing myself I
was making the best decision _for me_.

I know myself well enough to know there are aspects of my life I'm not good at
regulating or balancing. I also know that I'm good at convincing myself of
things that aren't in my best interest. Experiments like this are useful to me
for that reason.

I discovered that I was wrong about what I thought I wanted from this
particular aspect of life. This discovery was important enough, for me, to
make a clear cut decision to alleviate the chances of convincing myself my old
routine was a good one.

An analogy that comes to mind is how some people stop smoking cigarettes: cold
turkey isn't for everyone, but for those who know it is, they go for it and
they stop and they feel better for it. There's science to show eating lunch at
the desk is unhealthy. I've found I tremendously enjoy the alternative and the
benefits that come with it. So, I've gone cold turkey. But that doesn't mean
it's for everyone.

~~~
corresation
>An analogy that comes to mind is how some people stop smoking cigarettes:
cold turkey isn't for everyone, but for those who know it is, they go for it
and they stop and they feel better for it.

While it's a bit tenuous to compare where you eat your lunch with a long term
physical addiction, it's worth noting that the _vast_ majority of people who
quit "cold turkey" fail. Indeed, I'll broaden that and say more casually that
when people make public pronouncements, using absolute words like never, their
failure rate comes within a measurement error of 100%.

Cliffbean says in another post that such absolutism is "an attempt by many
people to play against their own psychology.", and I absolutely agree with
that, although my take tends to be much more cynical than theirs: It is an
attempt to essentially shackle future you with the fickle and short-term
observations of current you. Future you, most people eventually learn, _doesn
't really care_ much what current you thinks, and will reassess in the future
based upon new information.

Which is how we see an unending stream of these disposable lifehack "one week
in" observations, always presented as if it's profoundly revealing information
that has changed the speaker forever. In a month you can write a "Why I was
always eat at my desk", detailing the unhealthiness of take out food and the
great financial savings you've enjoyed, the benefits of taking a moment to
relax and unwind, and on and on.

Everyone is different. We all have different social patterns, different diets,
different behaviors. Do what works best for you, and what works best for you
will undoubtedly change over the years. Life is dynamic and is a constantly
changing set of circumstances and situations.

But if I have one piece of advice for you, it's to never use the word never.
Unless you're telling someone to never use the word never. The only result of
making never declarations is that over time your word starts to lose any
value.

~~~
tripzilch
I don't understand. I quit smoking a few months ago. I can't imagine _any_
other way than firmly attempting to never smoke another cigarette any more,
ever.

Now that particular resolution might not be 100% successful. Maybe I will
succumb to another cigarette some day. But there's a difference between
setting a certain _goal_ , and what counts as succeeding at it.

If I tell myself, I can quit smoking but I'm allowed to smoke a cigarette
every now and then, _that_ is setting myself up for failure. I know because
that's how I failed previous attempts. Even a single cigarette for me re-
triggers the physical addiction, and will make the 2-3 weeks after that extra
hard to control and not relapse. That occasional single cigarette would just
be making it extra hard on myself to follow through, and the extra willpower
needed when I allow myself that, is not worth the supposed pleasure of that
one smoke.

(btw I am aware that there also exist people who can actually manage to quit
but smoke one cigarette every 2-3 months or so. makes me wonder whether they
ever were really addicted in the first place, but that's another question,
plus I'm not here to judge anybody. What I do know is, that I am not one of
those people)

So I resolve myself to the goal of "no cigarettes anymore, ever", in order to
achieve a 99.9% cigarette-free life. But I am sincerely aiming for that 100%,
because I'm a bit fed up with the whole addiction thing, experienced it, seen
it, learned from it, I'd like to see it fade away to memoryland.

Maybe though my overcoming nicotine addiction is the _only_ thing that is so
important to me that I'll allow myself to say "never again". I wouldn't say
this about not eating at my desk, for instance, it's too small a thing to make
such a big claim about.

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buckbova
I never eat lunch at my desk because I think it's inconsiderate to my
coworkers. They should not have to smell or see what I am eating, let alone
hear me crunch into chips or an apple.

~~~
hnriot
I find this quite ridiculous, people are not these fragile creatures that
can't see, hear or smell anything other than the usual office sights, sounds
and aromas. I think you're over thinking this. Unless you're eating weird
stuff like boiled lungfish or whatever then I suspect nobody is paying the
slightest attention to you eating chips or an apple.

~~~
crazygringo
You've clearly never sat next to someone in a quiet office, who is crunching
on fistfuls of banana chips for an hour with their mouth open. I swear it
would _echo_ , those things are so loud. Maybe it's the whole mouth-open thing
that does it. But not everyone manages to eat discreetly, or even 'normally'.

In a loud office, it might not be so bad, but when the office is otherwise
quiet, it keeps you from concentrating at all. CRUNCH. CRUNCH. cr-cr-cr-cr-
CRUNCHCHCHCHCH.

~~~
saraid216
Sometimes, at my office, someone decides to make popcorn.

I never hear them eating it.

But, on the other side of the office, the smell encroaches, stirring the taste
buds with delicious promises. And then I look up, curious. And then I realize
what happened. And then my stomach goes, "Oooh, that's a good idea."

And then it's too late.

------
edw519
I'm just the opposite. I have eaten my lunch at my desk almost every day for
years and can't imagine anything else.

    
    
      - I crave LONG periods of time for coding...
      - By noon, I'm really getting rolling. I hate to stop.
      - I always plan & pack my lunch exactly like I want.
      - I love how everyone else is gone & I'm alone.
      - No one I know eats like me...
      - I'm tired of explaining/debating food choices.
      - I hate standing in line or waiting for my waiter.
      - I hate "small talk" over lunch.
      - I leave early, before traffic.
      - I still exercise more than anyone I know.
      - If I want a break, then I surf or email.
      - My favorite hour of the day.

------
enraged_camel
I use my lunch periods to get away from the forced socialization of our open-
office plan. In fact, that one hour when everyone is down at the cafeteria is
usually my most productive hour in the day: I can get stuff done without
disruptions or interruptions.

~~~
gdulli
Exactly. Blog posts like this aren't useful. Either it's about prescribing a
certain behavior for others, which is obviously a waste of time because we all
have different values that lead to equally valid/subjective choices, or it's
just intended to describe one person's decision tree, which isn't of general
interest. Blogging like this feels like it's driven by narcissism either way.

------
gaving
"I found my mind wandering to other things and realized that I was actually
enjoying my food a lot more; remarking internally on how the bread actually
taste in the sandwich."

jesus christ what

~~~
melloclello
i know right

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laureny
I'm surprised he doesn't mention what I think is the #1 reason for going out
for lunch: spending time with your coworkers that is not necessarily work
focused.

All the reasons he gives seem pretty weak: if you need a break, you can step
outside the office for a walk or a coffee or even go read on a bench for 20mn
without the activity being necessarily lunch.

Eating lunch at your desk has benefits, such as allowing you to go home sooner
or doing things at your computer that are not work related but which you enjoy
doing (e.g. reading HN).

The moral here is not "Always eat at your desk" or "Always eat outside" but
"Don't always do the same thing".

~~~
msoad
I decided to have zero "out of work focused" conversations with my co-workers
at my new job. It's the best decision I made. Office politics was always
against me because I was speaking with my co-workers about things I do outside
of work. I learned that co-workers are no my friends. They are sometimes
enemies

~~~
laureny
False dichotomy. It's true that they are not your friends but it doesn't mean
that you should never interact with them, nor that you wouldn't enjoy (and
maybe even learn from) spending time with them.

You spend more time with your coworkers than with your family, so cutting this
entire part out of your life for some nebulous principle is not socially
smart.

------
hv23
I can imagine the Onion article - "Man Leaves Dark Building During Day, Is
Surprised He Likes Sunshine"

------
LaSombra
I'm from Brazil, where we have lunch on restaurants every day. Very very few
people have lunch at the office and even fewer at their desks.

When I first went to the US I was appalled by people eating at their desks,
today I live in the UK and it's common for people to have lunch at their
desks, may it be sandwiches or salads they brought from home. I still can't do
it.

Reason being I have to breath fresh air, disconnect from the office and have
my own personal meal time to sit down and enjoy a meal leisurely. I usually
invite people to have lunch with me and I can see that they look almost
uncomfortable sometimes.

------
seivan
I've done a month of exact opposite. Sometimes I didn't eat either.

Catch up on WWDC, wrote some cool hacks, update some libraries, write some
tests for someone elses library, do some pull requests.

Lunch itself is a waste of time, adding co-workers that might eat slower than
you where social conventions requires you to stick around (because they are
kind enough to do so).

I rather just avoid that whole mess.

Besides, lunch was invented so I could watch WWDC in peace.

I am also lucky to work in a place where no one gets upset or questions it.

I actually like the company of my co-workers, but lunch is me being
productive.

------
Kiro
I don't want to spend my precious lunch hour being social. Desk lunches are
one of the best perks of being a programmer.

------
daigoba66
I pack a lunch nearly every day. I tend to get hungry 30-45 minutes before
most of my coworkers, and I eat lunch at my desk because I don't want to sit
by myself in the empty break room. Off topic: the amount of money I save by
packing a lunch versus going out is awesome. I also tend to eat a bit
healthier as a result.

------
adricnet
This is one of the bits of advice I used to give new hires in NOC and
Security: "Sometime things are crazy and we may not get to eat on time or may
need to eat at our desks. Don't eat at your desk when you don't have to. Get
away for a few minutes for your health and sanity."

Unrelated (ish) but much more important: "Don't cook fish in the shared
microwaves!" At the current place, all of the microwaves have signs exhorting
everyone to "Please cover your food!".

------
mpl
Another point to consider is that eating at your desk could be a major source
of illness: your phone, tablet, mouse, keyboard, etc., are all great sources
for all sorts of germs.

~~~
randomdrake
Putting that into greater perspective with some data: studies have shown your
desk environment to have _400 times_ more bacteria than toilet seats.

~~~
nandemo
Should we be worried by that? I presume there's some qualitative differences
between desk-dwelling bacteria and toilet-seat-dwelling bacteria.

~~~
randomdrake
Great question. To be honest, when I was doing my research I was able to come
across multiple quotations of a study talking about these numbers. However,
attempts to actually find a copy of the study in question led me to two
different dead links. It's why I didn't bring it up in my blog post. I simply
couldn't find a copy of the source; as compelling as a statement regarding
toilet seats may be.

I hate that it's so hard to find a copy of an academic study.

Should you a find a copy of the study that explored and expounded upon this, I
would love to see a link.

------
r0h1n
A somewhat different perspective exists in India. Most large corporations (and
a large number of startups too) dissuade people from eating at their desks.
Because most Indians love and eat cooked food, which, well, tends to give off
the odours of cooked food. An entire floor eating cooked food at their desks
will inevitably lead to a lingering odour that settles over everything &
everyone.

So many of us have two options - eat out at a nearby eatery, or eat your
prepared lunch at the internal cafeteria.

Personally, and in my circle of friends, we've gone from preferring eating out
to preferring eating cooked meals that are either bought at the cafeteria or
brought from home.

Maybe it's our preference for cooked food, which after a few years of eating
out, will always be healthier if you get if from home. And because many of us
have the "luxury" of being able to hire cooks who come in the
mornings/evenings.

There are of course many Indians who prefer eating out, but as they get older
(read: 4-5 years of working), they start realizing that home-cooked food is a
better proposition. Which is why you'll often find a broad cross-section of
employees - from an entry level person to CXOs, bringing cooked food in
insulated containers as lunch.

------
neves
It is one of these American cultural differences that we never imagine about
other cultures: People eat lunch at the desk, instead of socializing; drinking
alcohol outdoors is against the law; police can pick you for loitering...

------
rayiner
I almost always take lunch, even when I'm very busy. Indeed, especially when
I'm very busy. I always found it tremendously invigorating to get out of the
office and walk around outside, particularly when I worked in Manhattan where
you could totally drown yourself in the crowd and push out work thoughts.

------
famousactress
It's funny, I almost never used to eat lunch when I worked in an office. I'd
go have lunch outside of the office with coworkers. Now that I work remotely
from home I eat at my desk close to 100% of the time. I rarely try to do
actual work while eating, opting instead to stay hands free and watch a pycon
talk or part of a documentary or something, but the article definitely
resonates with me.. Most of my lunches are interrupted by questions in team
chat and I end up feeling rushed back to work and not like I've had an
effective break. I think I'm gonna try eating out today :)

------
fournm
I actually never bring my lunch to work, entirely for this reason. We don't
have a cafeteria, and if I don't force myself to step away from my desk for an
hour I'm never going to.

------
codelittle
There's a forest near my office, and I like to drive up there during lunch and
walk for 30 minutes.

~~~
zwieback
I used to work in Santa Barbara a block from the ocean so I'd go swimming at
lunch. Other times I'd get Tacos Rajas from La Super Rica.

At my current job my desk is pretty attractive compared to the surroundings so
I prefer that. Also, I can pack a pretty good lunch for myself.

------
0x001E84EE
How about a look into how much more money you spend by going out to lunch
everyday?

~~~
alwold
Eating lunch out every day can definitely get expensive, and people don't
realize that. Of course, you don't have to buy your lunch in order to not eat
at your desk. Assuming you have a place you can go (in this guy's example, a
park), you can always bring something from home. Or, if you need something
more exciting than what you can make at home, do like this guy:

[http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2012/02/liberate_you...](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2012/02/liberate_yourself_from_the_kitchen_become_a_guerilla_chef_.html)

...and then bring it somewhere other than your desk to eat.

------
rexreed
At first I thought this was going to be a soylent story. I'm glad it's not.
Thumbs up for the enjoyment of eating.

------
mratzloff
I bring a book to work. When I'm not eating with coworkers, lunch is when I
forget I have a job and read.

------
yankoff
It blows my mind that someone had enough motivation to write a big post on
just why eating at desk is bad.

------
coldcode
I've have never eaten lunch at my desk in 3 decades, I refuse. I need that
time away to clear my mind. EIther I go out or eat in the company cafeteria
(if it has one) or if I had to eat in some kind of lunch space.

------
adamconroy
Thank you. However I must confess that I am conscious of the decisions I make,
and I am capable of evaluating the impact those decisions have on me and my
particular circumstances.

The outcome of this is :

Some days I am full of energy and clarity and I eat at my desk and keep
working.

Some days I am tired, stressed or for some other reason can't focus, and then
I might go out and eat in a park and take my time.

Some days I have friends who want to meet for lunch.

Some days my colleagues want to go out for lunch as a group, typically Friday.

Some days I go eat in the common area because I am eating something smelly.

Some days I skip having anything substantial at lunch and go home early.

------
kungfooguru
Does anyone else not care even if they did lose productivity to lunch...

------
xiaohanzhang14
Would you like a cookie for coming to the realization that you're an adult and
can make adult choices about your daily behavior?

...why of course, you can eat that cookie wherever you like

------
dlu
I read this as I was eating lunch at my desk... nothing spices up a meal like
a guilt trip. Yeah ok, maybe I should go take a real break.

I usually try to take a real lunch, but it is tempting to get a bit of extra
time back during midday. It ends up being a slippery slope where it silently
goes from once-in-a-while to all-the-freaking-time.

I also probably end up physically leaving my desk, but spending my whole lunch
spinning the wheels in my head and that's probably just as problematic.

------
gnu8
My team normally all leaves the office to go eat as a group in the dining room
at noon every day. I wouldn't have it any other way.

------
SDGT
I take a 2 mile bike ride home, hang out for a bit with the cats, and watch
some Hulu before heading back. I cherish my lunch breaks.

------
larrik
I eat lunch in my dining room with my family (remote work is the best!)

In my previous job, I would eat lunch out whenever I was in the main office.
Otherwise, the owner would decide it was just the PERFECT time for a
meeting...

In my satellite office I would eat at my desk, though. In my lone office in
the back of a warehouse.

------
gtbcb
One of the best decisions I ever made at my prior job. I'd take a solid hour
for lunch outside, typically with colleagues. Additionally, 2 colleagues and I
took a 45 min walk at 330pm everyday. I'd argue that I was significantly more
productive by doing this and much much happier.

------
JoeAltmaier
Go out to lunch 20 years now. I have to get out of the office for an hour to
keep my sanity.

------
foocc
Lunch and dinner breaks are my most treasured time periods on many days.
Whenever I remember the good old times at university, I think of my walks
outside the library - and along the seashore - while taking a rest from
studying to eat dinner.

~~~
foocc
I should add that browsing Wikipedia while eating lunch has made me a
nutrition expert, to the surprise of many people. Eating lunch at the desk can
also have its advantages.

------
niuzeta
A book(physical) is essentially all you need to mentally get away.

------
donretag
I bike for 75-90 minutes in the middle of the day, so I don't have much time
for lunch. I eat while working after my bike ride.

That said, I agree with a lot of what the author has said.

------
stevenspasbo
I've never heard that, but I never do it anyways. Why sit at my desk when we
have ping pong, pool, pinball, or arcade games?

~~~
stusmall
For me its because I want my lunch to be as short as possible. I want to jam
my food down my throat and finish what I'm doing. If I am going to relax it
won't be at the office. I have much more fun things to do at home. For me work
happens at work, and play happens at home. I keep as strict of a line between
the two as I can.

That's just how my mind is set up though and I get why others like to relax
and unwind throughout out the day.

------
bra-ket
just buy some cigarettes and take breaks often

~~~
melloclello
just wait until HN finds out nicotine is (technically) a powerful nootropic

------
jimhart3000
But... when would I read Hacker News?

------
_random_
Sitting the whole lunch period is a bigger problem. Grab a take away, then go
for a walk.

------
LeicaLatte
Its always great stepping out for lunches. Welcome to the real world!

------
Skrypt
Nice post Dave, keep the posts coming!

------
corresation
The word never is seldom (but not quite 'never') advised, and shines brightly
as a warning sign. It appears far too often among these shallow lifehack type
articles.

In this case someone realized that that they have options about where to eat.
While this may seem a tad cynical, in a week they will be back at their desk.

