
Bootstrap 2.1 released - patrickaljord
http://blog.getbootstrap.com/2012/08/20/bootstrap-2-1-0-released/
======
mbell
Thanks as always for working on bootstrap, its an invaluable tool.

Couple thoughts:

Maybe its just me but I think the docs site a huge step backwards in
usability. The dark blue <-> red graphics offset by the blue of their primary
buttons is a little...gross. I am also not at all a fan of the left hand
navigation panel, I get that they are trying to show off the affix component
but I'd rather have the content be full width as its all I am really there
for. I found the sliding top sub navbar far less obtrusive and easier to
navigate. Also: so white is the default for the navbar but the demo site is
still using black?

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dangrossman
I <3 Bootstrap, but I did find the old documentation easier on the eyes and
easier to navigate as well.

~~~
eungyu
This is just a speculation, but I think bootstrap-affix.js is their new baby.
If there is one thing that the new navigation does well, it's promoting the
affix js feature (scrollspy stuff).

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dchest
Unfortunately, it seems like submenu implementation has the classic mistake:
it requires mouse cursor to travel strictly along the menu item to get to the
submenu.

Pictures: <http://imgur.com/a/pSDOo>

~~~
jameswyse
Yep, the trick here is to keep the menu open even after the mouse has left the
parent menu area. It's so simple yet probably quite difficult to code.

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dchest
Yes. Not only that, it should keep the submenu open when traveling inside this
triangle (but close on timeout if mouse stays still inside it):

    
    
          +--------+
          | parent |
          |        +--------+
          |       /|submenu |
          |      / |        |
          |=====/==|        |
          |=====\==|        |
          |      \ |        |
          +------ \|        |
                   +--------+
    
    

and close immediately when not inside the triangle.

Also, if in the parent there's another menu item with submenu somewhere on the
path of mouse inside this triangle, ignore this item.

For best results, if mouse was inside the submenu for a moment, keep the
submenu open until clicking away from it or moving over a different item in
the parent menu. So many details!

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spitfire
Upvoted for the ASCII art alone. That seems to be a lost art, particularly
here on HN. Long live the ASCII art diagram!

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reedlaw
Yeah! Was it done in Emacs artist-mode by any chance?

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dchest
Haha, no, Vim in replace mode. But yeah, artist-mode is awesome.

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mukaiji
I love bootstrap. Yeah, i hate the fact that all the mvp's out there basically
look & feel the same by using it as the go-to css framework, but at the same
time it's helping people iterate a lot faster and that's rarely a bad thing.

In addition, given how Twitter's bootstrap's look & feel is starting to
influence web design at large, I wonder if there is a case for other large
web-players to make their own css framework to impact the look and feel of
sites to their favor. Think of it as disguised propaganda.

~~~
lukifer
I agree with one exception: fixed headers are an eyesore and a usability anti-
pattern in most cases. Even regular users know how to scroll to the top.

~~~
jonknee
Nearly all desktop applications use a fixed header, it has fine usability
there. For a web app, as opposed to a primarily informational site, I think
there are definite cases where a fixed header is preferred. Gmail for example,
it makes sense to have control butons for your message always visible.

tl;dr on your average blog I agree, but in a web app I don't.

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brlewis
Since lukifer wrote "in most cases" you're only disagreeing if you think there
are more web apps out there than blogs or informational sites. He didn't say a
fixed element is _never_ desirable. I think you're agreeing.

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jonknee
Apps are a _lot_ of cases and most of the cases for Bootstrap.

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lukifer
Even with apps, it varies. My frustration is that it often seems to be used
thoughtlessly, by default.

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SkyMarshal
Interesting comments on the Extend page [1] on why LESS vs SASS:

 _Why LESS?

One of Bootstrap's creators wrote a quick blog post [2] about this, summarized
here:

\- Bootstrap compiles faster ~6x faster with Less compared to Sass

\- Less is written in JavaScript, making it easier to us to dive in and patch
compared to Ruby with Sass.

\- Less is more; we want to feel like we're writing CSS and making Bootstrap
approachable to all._

[1]: <http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/extend.html>

[2]: <http://www.wordsbyf.at/2012/03/08/why-less/>

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rapind
To each their own. The third point is actually why I prefer SASS. I like
meaningful whitespace.

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knite
I'd prefer Stylus over both LESS and SASS. Now that Bootstrap is relatively
stable, I intend to port it.

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masonhensley
It may be easier to just help update this to 2.1-

<https://github.com/thomas-mcdonald/bootstrap-sass>

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superchink
I believe they were referring to porting bootstrap to Stylus (rather than
SASS)…

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paulrademacher
Is the semicolon in "tl;dr" strictly necessary?

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ricardobeat
Yes. "Too long didn't read" is not grammatically correct.

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Johngibb
(For those who don't know there was a standoff between the bootstrap guys and
the maker of a popular js minifier tool [Douglas Crockford I think?] over the
pragmatism of ending lines in js with semicolons. Bootstrap claims that semi-
colons are optional and verbose, while the minifier folks espouse semi-colons
as a best practice, and have chosen to consider it "not a bug" that their
minifier breaks working code with no semi colons in some cases.)

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ricardobeat
tl;dr

I'm in the optional semi-colons camp, and it _is_ a bug in the minifier :)

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mrchess
Can you actually host the old documentation this time and not leave us in the
dust like you did in the 1.4 => 2.0 release?

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michaelbuckbee
It's still available in the source.

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moe
That is not enough. Old documentation MUST STAY ONLINE.

How can that possibly be not obvious?

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josephcooney
I'm amazed by your sense of entitlement.

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Johngibb
While the attitude is a little entitled, there may still be a valid point for
other users as well. Couldn't se properly crafted URLs on the homepage solve
this problem? Like /tags/2.0/documentation/index.html [1]. And run it right
off of bootstrap?

Edit: the point being that we can point links at pages from previous commits,
branches, and tags Shouldn't this help?

[1] that URL was slightly bastardized but I'm sure someone could very quickly
whip this up

~~~
Johngibb
Boy I was half asleep when I wrote that comment, all I was saying was that
since github lets you reference previous versions of files by crafting the URL
properly to include a tag/branch/hash, it should be possible to link to
previous versions of the documentation straight from the latest version,
eliminating the need for someone to clone the repo to access them.

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ThePinion
I just tried out 2.0.4 (and Bootstrap in general) for the first time an hour
ago. I'm already obsolete!

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archildress
Bootstrap has restored the joy I used to have in building websites. I can
think more about design and what I want to stay instead of cross site
compatibility, pixel dimensions, and building responsive designs. Thanks so
much to the team at Twitter for putting this out there.

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edwinyzh
Excellent work, Bootstrap is awesome! Thanks!

BTW, I found almost all Bootstrap-powered websites I visited uses _sticky_ top
navigation, which wastes considerable amount of my precious vertical screen
estate.

Another wide-screen wasting example is the new Gmail and Google Groups - and
what's even worse is that they force you to use the new UI.

I find sticky top navigation is annoying and nothing else, I just don't get
it, aren't many people using width screens nowadays? Or is it just me?

Maybe Bootstrap's nav should be non-sticky by default?

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sudonim
Bootstrap has been an invaluable asset for building our MVP. I'm glad we got
rid of the top bar, and very few people actually think we use bootstrap. But
it affords us wonderful defaults for tables, buttons, menus, modals etc.

If the team making it reads this, thank you. I owe you many beers for what
you've given us.

~~~
k3n
What is MVP in this context, ModelViewPresenter?

~~~
jaredsohn
minimum viable product (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product>)

~~~
k3n
Thanks!!

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mgallivan
I'm happy that the fluid offsetting made it into this version.

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taude
I've been using Zurb Foundation (<http://foundation.zurb.com/>). It doesn't
have as many feauture-rich components, but found the responsive grid easy to
use and I really appreciate the fact that my site doesn't look like everyone
else's...

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cloudsteam
Sorry to be a noob, but how does one get that glowing button effect as seen on
<http://rc.getbootstrap.com/index.html> ?

~~~
lovskogen
CSS Box Shadows: <http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/css-box-shadow/>

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eungyu
_The navbar component is now white by default_.

Thank you for handing out coloring papers to the devs. Seriously, this will
make the entire web 10% more unique.

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ccarpenterg
The docs for previous versions: <https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/tags>

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justindocanto
I really do not like this new boostrap page. There's too much back and forth
(left and right) hopping going on with my eyes. It doesnt feel very natural.
It's like driving and then looking at the passenger over and over. I don't
like it. Keep everything above the content and keep it full width like it was,
but that's just my opinion.

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jacobr
I wonder if moving further away from the twitter.com look is intentional, for
branding purposes.

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lenkite
None of the table examples in the documentation work (striped, hover, etc) at
<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/base-css.html#tables> on Chrome 21

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gadders
I've already started a 2.04 site. As a web design newbie, how hard is it to
update to the latest version? Just copy over the js and css? (I realise I'd
need to re-write my html to use the new features).

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jammmuel
One of my main beefs with Bootstrap was that it felt cramped. The switch to
14px body text with 20px line height addresses that. Personally, I'd increase
the default line height a bit more.

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sunkencity
It's fantastic! With the addition of date/timepicker it'd be complete.

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lovskogen
Q: I run "less ./less/bootstrap.less > bootstrap.css" – but the bootstrap.css
just contains links to all the less-files, and not one full css-file. What
command do I need to do?

~~~
dagw
the command you want is 'lessc'. 'less' is the standard Unix command for
displaying text files

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brianhc
It's strange to browse a website while someone changes pages from up
underneath you. I'm trying to develop here!

That aside, thanks for creating this. Bootstrap makes prototyping a pleasure.

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MatthewPhillips
Any plans for dropping JQuery as a dependency on the controls?

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orangethirty
The customize area is really helpful and chops off time lost going through the
source trying to customize it by hand. Great addition. Thanks for all the hard
work.

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knite
Have you checked out the LESS code (instead of the compiled CSS)? The file
variables.less has the same settings (with comments!) as the online
customizer. It's much faster to tweak that file and recompile than it is to
use the compiler.

~~~
orangethirty
Yes, thank you. I'm just a sucker for GUIs.

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fudged71
I'm not very colorblind, but the "warning" color used for the progress bars is
far too similar to the "success" color. Please consider a brighter yellow.

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lepunk
Awesome news. For me the most important thing about the update is that the
modal popup works with the latest Opera. Also the docs feels easier to use.

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loceng
2 days early! So excited. Too excited perhaps.

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conradfr
One tip I use with icons, especially on colored backgrounds like alerts, is
using a class like :

i.icon-blend { opacity:0.8; }

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azat_co
Oh wow, I love the new doc website. This is so cool! Keep up the great work!

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dhenzel
Looks like www.bootstrapcdn.com has already updated their files.

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southphillyman
Thanks , hope to play around with it this week.

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johnnymonster
@loceng I might be more excited than you

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staunch
FYI: If you click "reply" on an individual comment you can respond directly to
someone else's comment (as I've done here).

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loceng
He was hoping this was Disqus platform perhaps..

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noinput
Or he was commenting about the twitter bootstrap, in kind of a twitter reply.

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johnnymonster
im glad someone was able to figure it out...

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praveenhm
This is great tool

