
Migrants have net positive impact on New Zealand - jordancampbell
https://nzinitiative.org.nz/insights/reports/the-new-new-zealanders/
======
lacampbell
Very rose tinted view.

I don't know where people get this meme of "do the job native people don't
want to do". If a chain store that sells asian food (say, St. Pierres Sushi)
only seems to have Asians (a minority) working for them, what's the more
likely scenario? That there are no non-Asians willing to serve food for
minimum wage, or that the people hiring are showing overwhelming
discrimination and choosing people who look like them?

Illegally underpaid work in the immigrant community is huge in NZ. I don't
think I've ever heard of an Asian restaurant or supermarket that actually paid
minimum wage. An Asian friend of mine actually once tried to report an
employee for hiring people illegally and not paying minimum wage. They told
her that they _needed the employers passport number_. Without that, they'd do
nothing. What was my friend supposed to do, steal it!? Hiring people illegally
is simply not enforced.

Discrimination against non-Asians is prevalent too - it's very normal to see
"prefer Asian" written _in English_ on advertisements for flatmates, no one
blinks an eye anymore. I distinctly recall trying to find a room, talking to a
friendly guy who spoke fluent English with an NZ accent, and then having him
ask me if I was Asian or not. Afterwards I got a gutless text with an excuse
to save face.

I'll never forget the two days I attended Polyfest - a big 'multicultural'
(ie, anything not European) event where school kids gave performances. I
remember struggling to find a group of school kids walking around where the
members had different skin colours. It was the exception rather than the rule.
I was later informed by security guards that "the Samoans" had gotten into a
fight with "the Indians". Wonderful.

The fact of the matter is where large enough groups of immigrants congregate
there will be zero pressure for them to integrate. They will interact with
their own, hire their own (ignoring local minimum wage laws), speak their own
languages and live in their own bubbles. If that's what multiculturalism is -
different groups of people with very little contact with each other sharing
the same land - then count me (and my family) out of it.

PS: Also ignoring the practical matter that NZs population growth is
developing-world high, primary fueled by high immigration. You might argue
it's still a sparsely populated country, but the fact remains that once your
skilled labour force is high-income, infrastructure simply cannot keep up with
demand because it's too expensive. Not to mention the effect it has on house
prices.

~~~
twblalock
> The fact of the matter is where large enough groups of immigrants congregate
> there will be zero pressure for them to integrate. They will interact with
> their own, hire their own (ignoring local minimum wage laws), speak their
> own languages and live in their own bubbles.

Why shouldn't free people in a free country be able to live that way if they
want to (aside from ignoring minimum wage laws)?

After all, the whites in New Zealand have been living among themselves,
interacting with their own, and speaking their own language since they got
there. Did the Maori ever demand that the whites speak their language and live
among them according to their customs?

~~~
flukus
> Why shouldn't free people in a free country be able to live that way if they
> want to (aside from ignoring minimum wage laws)?

Why should free people in a free country allow people to immigrate to their
own ghetto's?

~~~
twblalock
> Why should free people in a free country allow people to immigrate to their
> own ghetto's?

Because they do not, and should not, have a right to tell other people what
neighborhoods they are allowed to live in.

~~~
flukus
But they have a right to not allow them in the country at all.

------
philliphaydon
As a New Zealander, born and raised in Auckland. Immigrants are bad for
society. Auckland has massive segregation by race. There are large pockets of
Indian and Chinese people who refuse to integrate into society. Refusing to
learn English and creating places with their own language and being less
welcome to outsiders.

In regards to housing pricing, the problem here isn't immigration. It's the
retarded laws which allow foreigners to buy property and own land without ever
having visited the country let alone living there to begin with.

I'm all for property to limited to permanent residents and citizens, and a cap
on the number of properties purchased to prevent buying up many properties.

For what it's worth I left New Zealand 11 years ago. My family still lives
there, I go back to visit every now and then, but I have no desire to ever
move back. Auckland to me is a disgusting place.

I live in Singapore now.

~~~
n00b101
> As a New Zealander, born and raised in Auckland. Immigrants are bad for
> society ... There are large pockets of Indian and Chinese people who refuse
> to integrate into society. Refusing to learn English ...

I'm just going quote the original article here: "Of those who do choose to
move to New Zealand permanently, analysis of the New Zealand General Social
Survey show immigrants integrate well. They are less likely to claim a
benefit, more likely to be employed, and their children have better education
outcomes than native born New Zealanders."

> I live in Singapore now.

This is rich. Singapore's official languages are Malay, Mandarin, Tamil, and
English. The official national language is Malay. Let me take a wild guess ...
as an immigrant to Singapore, you've been studiously learning Malay, Mandarin
and Tamil, and you absolutely do not segregate into a clique of white
anglophones in your social life. Good for you, model immigrant that you are.
/s

~~~
lacampbell
_This is rich. Singapore 's official languages are Malay, Mandarin, Tamil, and
English. The official national language is Malay. Let me take a wild guess ...
as an immigrant to Singapore, you've been studiously learning Malay, Mandarin
and Tamil, and you absolutely do not segregate into a clique of white
anglophones in your social life. Good for you, model immigrant that you are.
/s_

Your ignorance of Singapore is showing here. English is by far the most widely
spoken language of that country. it's the language of the education system, of
the government, road signs, etc. It's the most widely spoken language at home,
and the lingua franca of the country. You might as well berate immigrants to
New Zealand for not learning Maori or NZSL.

~~~
n00b101
>Your ignorance of Singapore is showing here.

Thanks, but I have spent a great deal of time in Singapore and know perfectly
well what language road signs are in.

> You might as well berate immigrants to New Zealand for not learning Maori or
> NZSL.

You are comparing the importance of Malay and Mandarin in Singapore to _sign
language_ ... I think perhaps it is your ignorance of Singapore's ethnic
peoples that is showing here.

~~~
lacampbell
Singapore is a city state, and its main language is English. Not learning one
of its secondary languages hardly equates to not integrating.

