

Are hackers too young and too busy bettering their lives? - kineticac
http://kineticac.posterous.com/too-young-and-too-busy-with-bettering-your-li

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abalashov
It's a noble exhortation, but I think it's somewhat anathema to the highly
specialised - and increasingly so - world in which we live, whether we think
it's good or bad from a qualitative and moral perspective.

It's getting more and more that doing something in particular passably - let
alone well - requires thousands if not tens of thousands of hours of practice,
and complete immersion and thirst for information within that knowledge
domain.

Healthy or not, it's how the world works. If you spend that much time learning
to be a good hacker and developing both the passion and understanding to
create interesting software products, just about anything else you do "once in
a while" is something in which you're going to be no more than a mere dabbler.
Of course, there are exceptions; I know several Renaissance Men that seem to
be impeccably good at numerous things that constitute universes of very non-
trivial complexity in themselves, and have always been omni-curious, well-
read, and just generally knowledgeable about, well, just about anything. But
they are the exception, and even in their case, areas of sweeping general
knowledge don't have the same economic or practical utility as narrow
corridors of highly specific knowledge.

It's just a trade-off of the epoch in which we live. There are only so many
hours in the day, and that's just how it goes.

Personally, I have always been a person with broad interests in a variety of
unrelated areas that I frequently nurse. But, I have no illusions about
excelling and being truly proficient at more than one of those domains - maybe
two someday, if I'm lucky - in a way that's useful and can make a meaningful
impact on the world. I'd be the last to protest diversification for the sake
of health and sanity, but it's important to realise that it's just that.

If you spent the last ten years intensely immersed in programming for most
fruitful hours of your waking life, but also "occasionally" like to screw
around with automobile mechanics, then it's a basically immutable fact that
you're going to be an eminently better programmer than an auto mechanic. And
while it may be fun and valuable to exercise your mind in both areas, the auto
mechanic side of you isn't going to get the same kind of satisfaction that
comes from the efficacy and power of competence and deep, erudite knowledge.
It's being able to accomplish something concrete, nontrivial and lasting that
gives programmers that high, which is why so few (outside academia) write toy
code just for the fun of it that nobody's ever going to use.

The point is, I think that most intelligent people want to apply their skills
and capabilities in ways that have a measurable displacement in the real
world. That takes so much time, effort and devotion that it leaves tragically
little time for other things. And I think that's why well-meaning people end
up in the "tunnel vision" of their "narrow" professional self-concept; it's a
cross we bear for being really good at what we do, or striving to be.

With regard to Relay for Life, I'm going to end with a quote from Dmitry
Orlov's essay, "Thriving in the Age of Collapse," which is otherwise on the
wholly different topic of his very pessimistic views of energy consumption
sustainability. (<http://nosedive.org/backup/orlov.htm>)

I think it sums up my view of the usefulness of participating in such things,
though:

"Am I being overly optimistic about the promise of a reformed American
suburbia? Some people are ready to declare suburbia to be at an end. But then
I know that Americans are very much driven to hyperbole, always willing to put
an end to something certifiably unstoppable (war, AIDS, cancer, poverty,
global warming), usually by making a small charitable donation, by wearing a
colorful plastic bracelet, or by going for a walk, a run, or a bicycle ride.
Below the charming, childlike confidence and optimism of such ventures lurks a
culturally ingrained inability to grasp something basic: not all problems are
solvable.

And thus I discern an element of wishful thinking in the idea that suburbia is
going to conveniently disappear, and that everyone who lives there will simply
go and live someplace else. A cabin in the woods, perhaps? Or a picturesque
desert island? How about a space colony? Nor do I find it plausible that half
the U.S. population will lay down and die shortly after they discover that
some of their cars no longer run or that their kitchen appliances no longer
work. And so I find it safe to think that most of the existing infestations of
Suburbia americans are ineradicable, but that the evolutionary pressure of a
chronic energy shortage will force them to evolve into something much less
energy-intensive. Whether, in each case, that something will turn out to be
absolutely horrible, or quite pleasant, will depend on many things."

~~~
antiform
To me, the article isn't saying to abandon the road to mastery, but merely to
take some detours once in a while. Dedicating a lot of time and energy to
something is definitely fulfilling and has a compounding effect, but as many
astute programmers have noticed, there is an echo-chamber effect if all the
information you get is from programmers and the programming world. Worse, you
could continue to hold incredibly inaccurate beliefs about other people like
the professional photographer in the article, and make judgment calls based on
that false information.

Of course you need something to bring to table in modern times, to be a
productive member of society. However, that doesn't mean to specialize to the
extent that you lose all context. Dig deep, sure, but come up for air sometime
and take a look around. You'll be surprised at what you may discover.

~~~
abalashov
To the extent that it is possible to strike that balance, you'll get no
argument from me. :-)

I think the reason every reasonable person doesn't just do this without
needing to read an article to remind him of the value of doing so is that it's
really _hard_ to do in these modern times.

Before I graduated from high school and started working in tandem with college
(which rapidly escalated into a full-time career development path and
compelled me to drop out, eventually), I used to hold a lot of people in deep
contempt for being so ignorant and narrowminded at a time of historically
unprecedented access to a never before seen breadth of information; between
the Internet, book sellers, public libraries, universities, etc. there's just
nothing you can't learn about if you want to these days.

What I had no concept of is that after you come home from a 10-hour day at an
intense job, even a technical white-collar job that seems physically
undemanding from a superficial perspective, all you want to do is just veg
out; even then, there are too many other bullshit errands to do. It's not just
strictly a matter of time being available logically; it takes energy, mental
and spiritual, to come home at 7 PM and then compose symphonies until bed
time.

Some people are more insistent than others at doing what they want to in spite
of what they have to, but it's not reasonable to expect most people to do that
even if the availability is technically there. We may have it easy compared to
our ancestors from many economic and physical points of view, but that doesn't
mean we aren't plagued with some of the problems existentially perennial to
the economic man.

EDIT: Also, I am not sure that the "echo chamber" that characterises Valley
web startup culture is any more sealed or myopic than the echo chambers of
other comparably specialised combinations of professional endeavour. Ever seen
what financial instruments traders breathe, eat, snort, etc. 24/7? People who
participate in insurance industry MLM schemes? People "tracked" for "blue-
collar" skilled trades? People who love and excel at working on cars or
motorcycles? Realtors, mortgage brokers? I'm talking about the folks that are
on top of their game in those respective sectors - the "hackers" - not the
most bromidically average, uninspired 9-to-5ers. It's very similar.

~~~
discreteevent
Yes but you are working with the assumption that you must be "on top of [your]
game". i.e. that you must "win". Alan Kay said that perspective is worth 80 IQ
points. Let me give you an example: Suppose you decided to drop out for a year
at the risk of sliding back from the top of your game. Suppose you went to a
third world country and worked for a charity. Suppose you came back with a
different perspective namely: Most of the stuff we do in the west is
completely superflous. Its about making life even more convenient and
sumptuous for those who already have far too much. That in fact every minute
of your amatuer and inefficient time was worth hours of what you were doing
professionally because the work you did as an amateur was so much more
important. In summary: The persepctive you get is that the game you were
trying to be at the top of is a game not worth playing, that really it was
doing you and the world no good and that on your deathbed being able to say:
"I was the best at X for a while, knew everything there was to know about it"
- doesn't amount to much. Note: I haven't done this. I am just saying that I
think it is possible based on some experiences I had while travelling (and
neglecting my game). Bill Gates seems to have had a similar insight but true
to form he went and did something about it.

~~~
abalashov
_The persepctive you get is that the game you were trying to be at the top of
is a game not worth playing, that really it was doing you and the world no
good and that on your deathbed being able to say: "I was the best at X for a
while, knew everything there was to know about it" - doesn't amount to much._

Certainly can't argue with that. I'm just trying to provide a useful account
of why people who play the game play it with the total commitment that they
do.

------
keyist
Apropos:

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a
hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a
wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act
alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization
is for insects."

-Robert A. Heinlein

------
TomOfTTB
From the opposite side of the spectrum consider these facts…

1\. Studies have shown it becomes harder for your brain to learn as you age.
So there is some logic to burying yourself in your chosen profession when you
are young and learning as much as you possibly can.

2\. Thanks to the beauty of compound interest the money you make in your 20s
and 30s is worth several times more than the money you’ll make in the entire
rest of your life. So it make sense to get as good as you can at what you do,
make a decent amount of money and sock it away when you’re young

3\. When you’re young your body is generally in the best shape it will ever
be. I personally think everyone should have the experience of partying all
night or picking up potential mates at a bar. That’s really only possible when
you’re young (or at least it gets harder the older you get).

4\. You’re more useful to society if you take the skills you do well and find
a way to contribute with them. What’s better, a programmer spending his day
hammering nails badly or a programmer who donates a day’s wages and hires 3
guys who have worked construction and know what they’re doing?

I’m not against public service. But if you focus on yourself until you’re
say…40…you’ll still have a good 50 to 60 years to go out and do as much public
service as you want. There’s nothing wrong with using your youth to establish
yourself in the world and then turning your attention to bettering the world
once you’re settled in.

~~~
pyre
On the other hand, being highly specialized can be a bad thing. Look at all of
the skilled laborers that went straight from highschool to working on the
assembly line making $70k. Now that all of that work has been undercut by
outsourcing to Mexico or China, what options do they have? (other than
dropping their profession and learning a new one)

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dasil003
My overall response is sort of meh. I say do what you love. If you're driven
to do something you might as well do it rather than always second guessing
yourself, or imagining what might have been.

On the other hand, there is a sort of frenzied mania that exists in the valley
that I think is very limiting if you buy into too much. For the cool stuff
that happens here there exists the same sort of herd mentality that geeks
often decry in places where they don't fit in, the only difference being the
fads here are more to our sensibilities.

FWIW I spent my teens and early twenties being a total slacker, and I don't
regret it one bit. I went to public school and I got to know people from all
walks of life. I did not move to the valley until I was 30. It's all been
valuable experience, and not a detriment to mastering web development, because
a regular 9-5 job on a good team was plenty of time to master the craft and
still live life like a normal 20-something. The great thing about the Web is
that all the best info about it is _on the web itself_ , so physical location
does not directly put you at a disadvantage.

As far as I'm concerned being young is about possibilities. Opportunities come
up and you should take advantage of them. You shouldn't get bogged down with
too much planning for the future, because the world we live in now is not the
world of the future. Maybe that means hammering it out at a startup when
you're 18. Maybe it means going into the Peace Corps. Maybe it means trying
your hand at cat burglary. Whatever you do just don't let you or anyone else
stick you in a box.

------
kajecounterhack
Having worked with a startup in the valley this summer as a rising college
freshman, I've come to realize this in the past 2 months. Maybe the scope of
my dreams is a little too narrow. Thanks for this, it was a good reminder to
diversify.

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srn
Yeah, I'm not one to speak but the valley is living in a bubble, most likely
as LA or Washington DC or NYC is. That has upsides and downsides, the
downsides probably being really out of touch with what people outside of a 2
hour drive radius want from their technology.

I spend time around being very geeky people who are in very different domains
than I am. It's entertaining the knowledge I'm assumed to have of people and
companies and technologies , as though web and mobile technologies are the
only game in town here.

------
middus
"(This is in reference to The Allegory of the Cave by Plato)"

I think that it is pretty weak of him to mention it this way. I get the
impression that he says "look at me, I'm so clever".

~~~
abalashov
I don't think it's intentional. But, I think it would've been more
rhetorically graceful to just have alluded to the cave allegory without then
saying, "Look, I just referred to the cave allegory!"

~~~
kineticac
well, didn't want to get into explaining what the heck the cave reference was
all about, hoping people who were confused about all of that could get some
more insight to the basic ideas.

