
Belarus opposition leader Maria Kolesnikova 'snatched from street' in Minsk - RealityVoid
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/07/belarus-opposition-leader-maria-kolesnikova-snatched-from-street-in-minsk-reports
======
kjaftaedi
_> Three other members of the opposition coordination council have also
vanished, in what appears to be a targeted attempt by the authorities to wipe
out the protest movement._

..

> _Kolesnikova’s press aide, Rodnenkov, confirmed her abduction but vanished
> himself around 40 minutes later_

..

> _Her coordination council colleagues who have disappeared include Anton
> Rodnenkov, Ivan Kravtsov and Maxim Bogretsov. Her press team is also
> missing._

~~~
diimdeep
Nothing new. But we hope for the best.

Twenty years ago, some leading Belarusian opposition politicians disappeared
without a trace. In an exclusive interview with DW, a key witness tells how he
assisted a special unit in committing abduction and murder. [0]

And headlines from 20 years ago [2][3]

[0] [https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-how-death-squads-targeted-
oppo...](https://www.dw.com/en/belarus-how-death-squads-targeted-opposition-
politicians/a-51685204) [1] [https://www.dw.com/en/alleged-killer-of-belarus-
politician-m...](https://www.dw.com/en/alleged-killer-of-belarus-politician-
meets-victims-daughter/a-52421562)

[2]
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jul/20/ameliagentlema...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jul/20/ameliagentleman)
[3] [https://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/04/world/belarus-sees-its-
di...](https://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/04/world/belarus-sees-its-dissidents-
disappearing.html)

Or this:

Classified By: AMBASSADOR GEORGE KROL FOR REASONS 1.4 (B,D) 1\. (C) Summary:
During the first two weeks of May, GOB authorities announced that
investigations into the 1999-2000 disappearances of two opposition activists
and the 2004 murder of a journalist were suspended. Independent investigator
Garry Pogonayilo believes the lack of progress is due to the authorities' own
participation in the crimes. Therefore, as long as the Lukashenko regime is in
power, the cases will never be "solved." Pogonayilo and international lawyers
are building a case against the GOB leadership and hope to get international
warrants of arrest for GOB officials suspected in these crimes. End Summary.

[4]
[https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06MINSK559_a.html](https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06MINSK559_a.html)

------
dehrmann
Can't say I'm surprised. Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya ran for president after her
husband was arrested for running for president, and she's in exile for good
reason. This seems to be standing operating procedure for Lukashenko...or any
dictator, really.

~~~
krn
> and she's in exile for good reason

And the reason is, that Belarus secret services abducted her on the day of the
election, and brought her to the border with Lithuania the next morning.

The foreign minister of Lithuania later confirmed, that her arrival to
Lithuania was coordinated with Belarus, not with her. She wouldn't say
anything about what happened.

It was the smartest move for Lukashenka: he could neither arrest her, nor let
her stay in Belarus, if he wanted to try to avoid the protests. The best
option was to make it look like she just ran away, leaving everyone who voted
for her to fight for themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised, if the same happens with other Belarus opposition
leaders during the next 72 hours.

~~~
manicdee
Let's hope it's involuntary relocation and not murder.

------
fsiefken
Reported deaths, human rights issues and crimes against humanity as defined by
the International Criminal Court Statute which Belarus did not sign or ratify.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Belarusian_protests#Death...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Belarusian_protests#Deaths)

~~~
literallycancer
_29-year-old Konstantin Shishmakov (Belarussian: Kanstantsin Shyshmakou),
director of the Bagration Military History Museum in Vawkavysk, disappeared on
15 August. As a member of the election commission, he refused to sign the
protocols, called his wife at about 5 pm and said: "I will not work here
anymore, I am going home." But he never came home. Later he was found dead in
a river. This was announced by the search and rescue squad "Angel"._

Disgusting. I hope someone saves the archives and lists of members of security
forces, so they can get what they deserve.

~~~
sam_lowry_
Telegram channels like
[https://t.me/terroristybelarusi](https://t.me/terroristybelarusi) collect
personal information of state officials involved in atrocities. Makes for
interesting reading, especially when you see photos of pretty-looking girls
that tortured dozens of men and beat women out of consciousness.

Check this one [1], the first 4 photos are of the most famous torturer.

[1]
[https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%...](https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%83%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F+%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA&tbm=isch)

~~~
sam_lowry_
Argh. Photos are shuffled constantly. It's the slightly fluffy brunette with
curly hair.

------
lwansbrough
A stark reminder that democracy is neither inevitable nor guaranteed. A truth
which desperately needs thoughtful consideration by US voters heading into
November.

------
paulintrognon
True question: why is it on the second page of HN despite score? Is it because
political? It's some kind of "flagged but not quite" system?

~~~
kjaftaedi
I'm also very curious as to the mechanism that is holding this post back.

414 points in 2 hours, yet pushed to the bottom of the second page for me at
the moment.

~~~
sam_lowry_
@dang playing god, I guess.

------
vvpan
I cannot believe they do not feel like they digging their own grave. The
"standing" government that is and the security forces. I mean how do they
expect to find any job that's not cleaning bathrooms in Russia after this.

~~~
nomadrat
For the people in Lukashenko closest circle it's really a «death fight». For
the police forces - in most cases they are really simpleminded and brainwashed
with propaganda. They also have a lot of perks like free homes and good
salaries. (i'm from belarus)

~~~
everybodyknows
What do you think of chances Belarus follows the Ukraine path?

Here's most of what I know about the Maidan revolution:

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RibAQHeDia8](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RibAQHeDia8)

Favorite quote: "My mother? She's around the corner, making Molotov
cocktails". Said by a 13-year-old boy on the street to interviewer, when asked
if his mother was worried about him. Filmed with dead body of fellow protester
in background.

~~~
nomadrat
It's a common mistake comparing Ukraine situation with Belarus. In Belarus we
don't fight between pro-EU or pro-Russia. We have deep connections with
Russia. Everyone speaks russian language.

Our fight is about basic human rights. It's about nation-wide abuse. Everyone
in Belarus feel like they being raped and tortured and now the rapist is
saying to us - "hey it's your fault that you was raped". A 16-years old boy
who was tortured by the police(and it's not a figure of speech
[https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/how-to-save-
timur/](https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/how-to-save-timur/)) and who was in
coma — arrested again.

If your question about the violence from the people - i don't believe it will
happen, because this is exactly what Lukashenko wants. He sold us to Russia.
We have so-called Union state with Russia where Putin have legal right to move
here his troops if people will turn peaceful protests to the so-called Maidan.

Without Russia, Belarus would be free already.

~~~
andrey_utkin
Ukrainian Revolution of Dignity has happened and _prevailed_ not because there
was a pro-EU protest, but because there was a blatant power abuse against
innocent people.

"Deep connections" is an irrelevant argument, and Ukraine also had such
connections.

~~~
nomadrat
Well, i guess then you can read my entire comment.

------
hamiltont
I'm currently helping with translations for
[https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/](https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/)

The things being done to these people in detention are horrible. We just
translated an article about a 16-year-old boy beaten into a coma. When he
awoke he said he was one of the lucky ones. (
[https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/how-to-save-
timur/](https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/how-to-save-timur/) )

From consistently talking to multiple opposition members, here is my take on
the current mindset:

Every single protester on the street is aware that the police are waiting for
them to do anything that gives an excuse. Foreigners don't always understand
the dictatorships use a two-pronged approach, one part being heavy-handed
violence and the other being heavy-handed propaganda. Like it or not, there's
always a percentage of the population that buys into the propaganda, either by
being stupid or by being centrist.

The protesters are very intentionally being careful to not give any excuse.
That's why you see 70-year-old grandmothers walking in the streets wearing
pure white, they want the evidence to be obvious when the police shove down
and beat grandmother's bloody. They also want it to be impossible for the
state to spin them as violent criminals

In short, these people are brave as f __*

Many do suspect this will end in all out violence, but everyone knows that
would give Russia an internationally acceptable excuse to join the party. The
current thinking is Lukashenko may make a mistake (it is widely reported
internally that he is on heavy medication and typically takes an entire month
away from office following the election period, which has been impossible with
the constant mass protests). His family has begun to leave the country,
excluding his young son who he takes with him everywhere.

The people are being careful to say, at least for the time being, they do not
want him dead, they only do not want him in the country. They're trying to
give him every opportunity to flee and leave them to repair their own country

If you want to help, the biggest thing you can do is continue to give them
international recognition. Share it on social platforms. After the first wave
of violence, the international outcry caused Lukashenko to order the police to
temporarily stop the beatings. The protests have continues to grow, and the
violence has started again (as we all know, dictators have a really small
playbook of possible control tactics). International outrage is more effective
than you might realize.

EDIT: For those unaware, IT has grown significantly in Belarus. It's debated
why this is the case (e.g. perhaps the dictatorship just does not know how to
extract value from a company where seizing assets just leaves you with an
empty shell of a previously valuable company), but regardless multiple
Belarusians are entering the world stage with a reputation for being
competent/capable/innovative with technology. It's been a interesting
emergence of a new skilled class. Right now, Lukashenko is squishing that with
his actions. Shutting of the internet is one example. Another example is
retaliation, such as what is being done to PandaDoc (a Silicon Valley-based
company). Their founders are Belarusian. After a statement by the founders,
the state retaliated by raiding their Minsk offices and arresting employees.
For more info, see
[https://savepandadoc.org/en/](https://savepandadoc.org/en/)

~~~
paulintrognon
I can't access the site you're linking. Here's an archive link
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200821144554/https://www.voice...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200821144554/https://www.voiceofbelarus.com/)

~~~
hamiltont
Thanks. Mind sharing where you are browsing from and what you get when you try
to hit the link (DNS failure, site not responding, etc)? I can forward an
issue report on to the maintainers

~~~
joveian
I'm using Firefox with strict uMatrix settings from a private VPN/proxy
(everything goes through a server with a dedicated IP address that only I
access via SOCKS5). I see only a blank page that tries to set some cookies,
although allowing cookies still results in a blank page. It works via kproxy.
I sometimes see trouble with small sites that set strict Cloudflare or Google
settings, so even though the site doesn't seem to be using either of those I'd
guess it may be an IP block ban possibly following an actual attack from a
nearby IP address.

~~~
sockeye
Hi, VoB team member here, sorry for the inconvenience. These blank pages were
caused by a caching issue that affected a small percentage of users. Now it
should be fixed; please let me know if you notice any more

~~~
hamiltont
Thanks for your work!

------
leptoniscool
On this side of the Atlantic, we have yet to discover how the cameras were
turned off in Epstein's jail.

~~~
shankhs
Not everything has to be linked with the US politics. US has strong democratic
institutions. Regardless of your opinion on Trump, he is not a dictator like
Lukashenko.

~~~
sam_lowry_
Not yet.

------
Ciantic
Interesting to find this in HN. Of course I hope for the best outcome, but I
don't think it's achievable.

The way I see it there is no real opposition leaders, because they are in
jail. This women triumvirate, whom were not leaders themselves was probably
surprised themselves amount of support they got.

There seemingly is no plan by the opposition, other than hope that the regime
turns on the Lukashenko. When that happens and there is no organized
opposition, the regime just grows a new head. Which I guess would be a some
sort of success.

Democracy (and the values it embodies like freedom of speech and assembly) is
an agreement among the elite. If there is no agreement among the elite then
democratic values has little chance surviving.

~~~
sam_lowry_
Lukashenka and his clique have been consistently eliminating all public
figures for 26 years straight. The fact the public is able to organize without
real leaders is a true success and the only viable way for them to succeed.

Yesterday, bandits from local militia arrested all the members of the water
rescue crew that helped protesters out of the water where they jumped to
escape.

The same day the head of the criminal police was photographed shattering the
windows of a café where some of the protesters receded.

Yesterday again, a second heavily beaten dead body was found in the woods in
what looks like a militia victim.

Merciless criminals took over all police and security forces and they act with
total impunity.

How can there be "real opposition leaders" in in a scenario where they are
beaten, imprisoned or exiled soon after becoming public figures?

~~~
Ciantic
I was not meant to be demeaning, I have been following the situation very
closely and know about each of the events you listed. I want them to succeed!

I do think that it's a success they can even demonstrate, the regime is so
brutal.

However when I look at further ahead, it feels bleak to me. 1990s criminals
and their entourage have became the heads of state, how can you unseat them
with leaderless opposition?

~~~
sam_lowry_
Keeping up with protests is tiring.

Lukashenka is 66, his main killer Pavlichenko is 50. Sheiman, another guy with
blood on his hands, is even older. Their kids are grown ups but they have been
kept away from state affairs.

I think they will wear out.

~~~
Ciantic
Yes the few will wear out, I even believe the regime will replace Lukashenko.
But my point is that these regimes are wider than they seem. As one man put it
in twitter about Russia: KGB and 90s Mafia merged, and it became the state of
Russia.

I think there is similar situation in Belarus, the criminals are in charge at
all levels of state and each city. Sweeping it away without organized
opposition requires a miracle.

------
tyingq
_" Then I noticed a dark minivan with the slogan “Svyaz” on the side parked up
not far from the museum"_

Is Svyaz some business or government agency?

~~~
SergeAx
No, it means "Telecom", suggests technical service vehicle.

------
amai
" According to Ernst & Young survey, more than 30% of the Fortune Global 200
companies have worked with HTP residents. The most trending customers are
Facebook, Microsoft, Northrop Grumman, PepsiCo, Whirlpool, 3M, Amazon.com,
Cisco Systems, HP, Oracle, Xerox, Disney, Intel, Apple and IBM, which have
worked with several companies from Belarus."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus_High_Technologies_Park](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus_High_Technologies_Park)

------
homakov
What happens in Belarus is absolutely disgusting. Something you would expect
from a mexican narco cartel not a european country. What’s even more
disgusting is lack of any tangible help from the US/EU. No sanctions for
Lukashenko they said.

------
shmerl
This paranoid fascist potato führer will never let go of power voluntarily. He
is insane and obsessed with power.

~~~
liability
Potato?

~~~
daoman122
Yes, it's hard to explain, but he maintains an image of a very industrious and
agriculture-oriented leader, and on many promotional videos and photos was
seen as participating in harvesting potatoes -
[https://www.google.com/search?q=lukashenko+potatoes&tbm=isch...](https://www.google.com/search?q=lukashenko+potatoes&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiJ0Jno0NfrAhUGhp4KHcSAAiMQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=lukashenko+potatoes&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyAggAOgUIABCxAzoICAAQsQMQgwE6BAgAEEM6BwgAELEDEEM6BggAEAgQHlDwL1idUmC8U2gAcAB4AIABOYgB7QWSAQIxOZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=MnZWX4nvB4aM-
gTEgYqYAg&bih=946&biw=1870)

------
samat
Why is this on hacker news? Is not this website supposed to be about
technology and all things related? Or is related = anything goes?

~~~
procinct
It’s really just anything hackers would find interesting. Generally it spans
tech and startups but also occasionally branches out to other sciences, art,
politics and other subjects.

------
yalogin
Wow, that is quite brazen. He wouldn't do that unless he is very confident
about the fallout from it. Putin is obviously strongly behind him and he also
feels that no one else, primarily the US, will do anything about it. Germany
and Europe in general might say something but not sure if that will have the
same weight as the US.

~~~
mhh__
[https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/03/belarus-election-
fraud-...](https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/03/belarus-election-fraud-trump-
lukashenko-putin/)

It seems to fit a pattern for this administration. By all accounts I've read
this is the way Trump views politics, so his silence is not out of character.

~~~
pnw_hazor
Better than drawing red-lines that won't be enforced like previous
administrations often do.

~~~
yalogin
I don’t get it, trump enables and worships Putin. Isn’t that a problem? The
previous administrations of both parties, would have put sanctions and hurt
them a little. Atleast they didn’t enable and worship the guy. This is what
gives Putin strength and also weakens Europe's resolve at anything strict.
Even if the US does nothing, previously it was known that it will always stand
on the right side of the issue until now.

~~~
pnw_hazor
The US has kept up many sanctions on Russia and has added several more during
the Trump administration. While there is room for debate as to the type or
severity of any given sanction, it is undeniable the US is aggressively using
economic sanctions to signal its displeasure with Russia meddling.

FYI: "U.S. Sanctions on Russia: An Overview" [PDF]

[https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10779.pdf](https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10779.pdf)

~~~
yalogin
We are talking about two different things, but its cool, I know where you are
coming from.

------
arkanciscan
This sort of thing seems to be happening more and more. More often to
protestors who don't have as much protection and attention. What, if any,
technologies exist to safe guard against this sort of thing? Are there
tracking devices, or apps that people in high profiles currently use to
protect themselves? Do political opponents of dictators wear body cams at all
times?

~~~
jl6
By the time you need to rely on technology for personal safety, it’s probably
already too late.

What would a body cam show, even if it were live streaming to foreign server?
The masked face of a thug sent by the government to pick you up and smash your
gear?

I fear such malign force can only be overcome by opposing force - either a
foreign intervention or an overwhelming popular revolution that is willing to
put its people severely in harms way.

