
Brazil's President Blames NGOs for Amazon Fires - egusa
https://latinamericareports.com/bolsonaro-blames-ngos-for-amazon-fires/2940/
======
coliveira
Bolsonaro's government is a criminal regime. One of his first goals was to
destroy the agencies that regulate the environment and disable the reporting
mechanisms (which were "fake news" according to him). He personally fired the
president of INPE, a state research agency, for publicizing a report about
Amazon deforestation.

~~~
bpanon
Criminal? As opposed to which other governments?

~~~
malandrew
Upvoted. Bolsonaro's government is a criminal regime in the same way that
every Brazilian government has been criminal. You basically need to commit
crimes to get elected in Brazil and commit more once you're elected to stay in
power.

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fencepost
Of course he blames the NGOs. They've been fairly vocal against his policies
for opening up further territory for agribusiness, so now he's blaming them
saying that they have set fires in order to discredit him. The end result is
almost certainly going to be multiple attempts to ban as many of those
organizations as possible on the grounds that they are some sort of eco-
terrorists destroying Brazil's rainforest. It won't make much sense but making
sense is not the goal. Getting those organizations out of his hair is the
goal.

Watch what he does, not what he says.

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lwansbrough
I live in BC where it’s not uncommon for wildfires to consume a million
hectares in one summer (as was the case in 2018 with a total of 1.3m hectares
burned.)

...Typically we put out the fires first _then_ assign the blame, seeing as it
doesn’t really matter who’s fault it is once it’s started...

~~~
rajbot
These fires are being set intentionally by agribusiness. They don't want to
put them out.

\- [https://www.newsweek.com/pray-amazonia-brazil-jair-
bolsonaro...](https://www.newsweek.com/pray-amazonia-brazil-jair-bolsonaro-
forest-fires-lungs-planet-1455189)

\- [https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/22/americas/amazon-fires-
humans-...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/22/americas/amazon-fires-humans-intl-
hnk-trnd/index.html)

------
giacaglia
There is a good interactive map: [https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-
cosc?cosc,-12.555,-7...](https://www.windy.com/-CO-concentration-
cosc?cosc,-12.555,-77.520,4)

~~~
marcosdumay
Thanks a lot.

It's very hard to understand what is happening from the media (Brazilian or
international). This map explains:

\- why it's so concerning even if the fires are overall smaller than the
Amazon average for this time - because most of Acre and Rondônia are on fire,
the average is down pushed by the largest, less populated states.

\- what is up with the national and Acre's governments fighting on TV - most
of the fire is there.

\- How can the smoke reach São Paulo even though there's none of it here at
the middle of the way in Brasilia - it literally took a turn at Bolivia.

The Bolivian and Peruvian people are probably not happy at all with the fires.
I wonder why I don't see them complaining.

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emersonrsantos
According to this NASA report, this is a natural occurrence on this time of
the year:

> As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that
> total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the
> average in comparison to the past 15 years.

Source: [https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-
bra...](https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil)

~~~
neuronexmachina
Interestingly, the URL used to have a different caption:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20190822024248/http://www.nasa.g...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190822024248/http://www.nasa.gov/image-
feature/goddard/2019/wildfires-in-the-brazilian-rainforest-creating-cross-
country-smoke)

> Although it is not unusual to see fires in Brazil at this time of year due
> to high temperatures and low humidity it seems this year the number of fires
> may be record setting. According to Brazil’s space research center INPE
> almost 73,000 fires have been recorded so far this year. INPE is seeing an
> 83% increase over the same period in 2018.

~~~
malandrew
> 73,000 fires have been recorded so far this year. INPE is seeing an 83%
> increase over the same period in 2018.

Number of fires doesn't seem like a good measure. A simple change in how you
distinguish between two fires in close proximity can dramatically change the
numbers. Higher resolution measurements can allow you to distinguish between
two fires that might have looked like one in years prior.

A much better measure would be to look at the quantity of surface area on
fire.

------
aglavine
It is sad how Propaganda (repeated here in multiples comments) blames
Bolsonaro, instead of finding out how the fires started and spread.

~~~
throwaway5752
Well, could do your part by sourcing your allegation, instead of spreading
FUD.

It seems like believing it requires that groups dedicated to preserving the
Amazon's rain forests are burning it, and ignores Bolsonaro's long and well-
documented track record on the issue
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Environmental_p...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Environmental_protection)

~~~
aglavine
I don't see any long and well documented recored there, just a few
declarations and an affirmation that Brazil "preserves more [rainforest] than
anyone."

Blaming is bad for both Bolsonaro and the ones spreading the Propaganda.

One thing is clear: no one spreading the news will care in a week how it
started and what can be done for preventing this happen again.

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xwdv
I see this meme pop up on social media all the time now about how the Amazon
rainforest is burning and to spread the “awareness”.

But really, what are you _supposed_ to do? Merely being aware of some tragedy
occurring far away doesn’t do anything. The people who perpetuated it don’t
give a damn. Are we supposed to go put out the fires? Are we supposed to go
kill the people who did this?

If there’s nothing I can do, then I’m better off not knowing. I have more
relevant things to care about. The only thing this awareness campaign tells me
is that Brazilians have done a terrible job of protecting their rainforest,
and they should be judged accordingly in the future.

~~~
darpa_escapee
> _Merely being aware of some tragedy occurring far away doesn’t do anything._

The first step on the long road of change is acknowledging that a problem
exists.

Just because you can't imagine how you can effect change, doesn't mean it
isn't possible. Problems of this scale require a sufficiently scaled solution.
Economic sanctions and treaties would provide incentives for change. Hit
Brazil's government and business leaders where it hurts: their wallets and
their power on the world stage.

~~~
xwdv
Just because change is possible, doesn’t mean my awareness has any part to
play in it.

~~~
darpa_escapee
Very few problems are solved by simply ignoring them.

General awareness of a problem is needed to mobilize political action. If the
solution to the problem is political, awareness of the issue might inspire
direct action, or at least voting for policy that effects change.

~~~
xwdv
That might be a good statement for a motivational book but it isn’t true. A
massive amount of problems have been solved throughout my life without me even
being aware of them. The key is that the people aware of those problems were
exactly in the right position to do something effective about them.

~~~
malandrew
This. I would go even further and say that, if anything, bringing attention to
an issue in this day and age makes it highly politicized and increases the
likelihood that those with an agenda on any side of the issue will try to
manipulate perception, thereby making it harder to make an honest assessment
of the issue.

A month ago I would have been more likely to find a more cut and dry factual
assessment of these fires than I could today. The attention economy coupled
with pandering to the lowest common denominator and the ROI of manipulating
perception is paralyzing our ability to solve any problem.

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giacaglia
The fires are in Bolivia, Paraguai and in the state of Amazonas and Rondonia
in Brazil. Here is a picture of the emissions:
[https://twitter.com/m_parrington/status/1163834182860247040](https://twitter.com/m_parrington/status/1163834182860247040)

~~~
lucis
No it's not. It's mostly in the state of Roraima

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mrnobody_67
I'm still baffled that I didn't hear about this until about 48 hours ago....

~~~
aglavine
I wonder who decided to start spreading the news and this narrative...

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malandrew
Current situation map from INPE:

[http://queimadas.dgi.inpe.br/queimadas/portal/situacao-
atual](http://queimadas.dgi.inpe.br/queimadas/portal/situacao-atual)

The [http://queimadas.dgi.inpe.br](http://queimadas.dgi.inpe.br) site also has
links to a lot of raw data on wildfires in Brazil.

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jacknews
where's Brazil's (or environmentalists worldwide) Lee Harvey Oswald when you
need him?

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spraak
The same president who recommended pooping every other day [1] in order to
protect the environment.

[1] [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-
america-49304358](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49304358)

~~~
hu3
It was a joke. He does this kind of jokes on a daily basis during his morning
interview with journalists.

~~~
spraak
I'm aware of that yes...

