
With help from Teamsters, LA Uber drivers try to organize - waterlesscloud
http://www.scpr.org/blogs/economy/2014/06/23/16892/with-help-from-teamsters-la-uber-drivers-try-to-or/
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forrestthewoods
I think it sucks that Uber drivers aren't direct employees of Uber. Were they
once upon a time? I forget. Anyhow, it's just a bullshit game for Uber to
avoid regulations. It'd be much better for everyone involved if drivers could
just be salary employees.

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MarkPNeyer
> It'd be much better for everyone involved if drivers could just be salary
> employees.

uber probably wouldn't exist if this were the case. the cost overhead of
hiring someone would mean drivers would have less freedom - no moonlighting
for lyft or sidecare - and rates would be higher.

isn't it better to look at ways of changing the employer/employee dynamic
instead of insisting that everything work that way?

~~~
jassinpain
Please explain your logic? As a user of uber the experience is so much better
then a cab. If a driver does not perform to very high standard they are cut
out of the system with customer reviews. For the drivers I talk to ( 6x trips
a week) they love the flexility and money. The only reason your hearing
anything is taxi shields are a scam. They are now a commodity that is "rented"
while the companies sit there and trap the drivers with high rental fees. Sure
it's not perfect but I feel safer in a Uber car then a cab. They usually drive
better, there is a lot of who's car I got in, where I was picked up, when the
ride started, and where it ended. In a cab you have none of these.

~~~
MarkPNeyer
i'm not sure how we disagree. my point was to GP - that making uber hire all
of the drivers wouldn't benefit the drivers, the customers, or uber. it would
benefit the cab unions though.

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dkarapetyan
Oh the irony. The heralds of the "sharing" economy are getting a dose of some
shared negative sentiments. Then again maybe that's not the kind of sharing
they meant.

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wyager
>DeWolf cited a recent mandate from Uber requiring all Uber Black drivers with
cars older than 2010 to switch over to UberX within two weeks (they later
switched it four), where they will make less money.

God forbid Uber try to maintain a high quality service!

~~~
cdcarter
Is a four year old black car really that massive of a quality difference than
a two year old black car, such that it should be put into the same price
category as Prius's (where the driver is able to pay less in gas and offers a
significantly less impressive service?)

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amorphid
I think the two vs four was referring to the number of weeks drivers had to
switch car that built in or after 2010.

~~~
cdcarter
Yes, but a 2010 car in 2014 is four years old, and a 2012 car in 2014 is two
years old.

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xivzgrev
This is really interesting. Uber and Lyft are trying so hard to recruit
drivers in the face of their rapid growth. A strike, or whatever the
equivalent is in this "association", would really hurt them. It flies in the
face of Uber's mantra of always available.

Given the vulnerability, I expect it won't be too long until we see one,
unless drivers' concerns are addressed.

You could say with Uber's war chest they could wait out a strike, but again,
it flies in the face of their long held core value prop - always on. It will
create massive surge conditions.

If I was Uber, I'd eat the difference between surge price and normal fare and
starve the union out.

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HarryHirsch
_If I was Uber, I 'd eat the difference between surge price and normal fare
and starve the union out._

Let's not think about the children right now, let's think about the drivers
instead. When you are between jobs it might easily be _you_ behind the wheel.
Think very carefully which of the two dogs in the fight you should support.

~~~
sliverstorm
People around here probably fancy themselves to be the dog that's going to be
in charge of the next Uber, so they'd naturally root for Uber.

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jluxenberg

      >> Uber drivers are independent contractors, 
      >> so they can't form a union, which is why 
      >> they're trying to form an association
    

Does this mean it's illegal for them to form a union? Why would it be? What
prevents them from unionizing?

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cdcarter
No, there is just no legal recognition of a union (as is understood in the US)
for freelance contractors. Contractors organize through professional
associations, instead.

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Daishiman
It seems only logical. It's evident that at some point it will be a race to
the bottom between services with similar propositions, so labor will
eventually get some cost cutting.

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adventured
With self-driving cars, it would seem likely in the next 20 years there will
be extreme cost cutting on labor.

~~~
daledavies
That's something I'd never thought about before. Surely the whole taxi
industry is doomed.

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jrockway
> the system where passengers rate their drivers is unfair

Why is that?

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benihana
Is it even possible to keep people from scabbing a service like Uber? There's
no central place to go to work, so I can't imagine any kind of picket line
situation. How will a union maintain any kind of power when they can't control
who goes in and out of a work site?

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dsl
Unions historically employed violence (or fear of violence) to prevent scabs
because of the close ties to organized crime. Failing that, there is no real
way that the union can avoid scabs.

(Edited to clarify. Yes I acknowledge employers can be evil too, I assumed
that was obvious.)

~~~
ArtB
...as did factory owners.

Is there a name for the logical fallacy where one knowingly misrepresents true
statements to suggests things that aren't true? (ie that only unions used
violence or had criminal ties).

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steve19
Yes, 100 years ago factory owners sure did (Ford being a classic example).
More recently they have not.

Low level violence is frequently applied by strike workers today. I once
worked (white color job) for a shipping company and we had one strike every
couple of years, sometimes more than one in a year (stevedore and sailors were
both unionized so there would be two separate negotiations, each of which
inevitably ended in a week or two week strike).

Try driving through a picket line of stevedores and see what happens to your
car. Actually don't, you will regret it. If they think you are a scab, you
will be punched.

If a hardcore unionist calls you a scab, be scared. Its the worst insult they
know, and its backed by extreme hatred.

As far as organized crime violence goes, I have no experience with that. I
always assumed that was Sopranos fiction.

Unionism has done good things, but I don't believe it has a place in a high
tech industry. What Uber needs is solid competition so that drivers can simply
defect to a competitor.

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smadge
> Unionism has done good things, but I don't believe it has a place in a high
> tech industry.

Since when was driving a car a high tech industry? Every industry uses high
tech, but that doesn't mean they should be subjected to Silicon Valley's poor
labor practices.

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thrill
It's interesting watching the maneuvering to strangle a promising idea while
it's still in the cradle.

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firstOrder
What promising idea is that, making a business on the basis of ignoring the
laws of the municipalities your business is in, or having the drivers, who
were in business before Uber and will be in business after Uber, do all the
work and wealth creation while some startup and its VCs and its VCs LP's
parasitically suck up profits from all that labor?

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wspride
The "laws of the municipalities" in most cases were bull shit regulatory
capture created distorted market and offered terrible service for the
consumers in favor of the old holders of capital (see: token systems)

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zacharycohn
I can't help but think that all the drivers who are making trouble (in Seattle
and now LA) are just ex-taxi drivers.

