
Apple could block iPhone camera at cinemas, concerts - jacquesm
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/apple-iphone-camera-patent-cinema-concert
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alfiedotwtf
Read this as "Police will block cameras at protests".

~~~
jfinkhaeuser
That's the thing. The feature will not have cinema locations hard coded, but
query some kind of online editable database. Otherwise it'd be too tricky to
maintain.

~~~
kissickas
Straight from TFA:

The patent reads:

“A transmitter can be located in areas where capturing pictures and videos is
prohibited (e.g., a concert or a classified facility) and the transmitters can
generate infrared signals with encoded data that includes commands temporarily
disabling recording functions.”

~~~
jfoutz
Taking a camera into a classified facility seems like a bad idea. It can't be
that hard to find IR opaque, but visually clear paint. Especially if you're a
nation state.

~~~
tantalor
Glass blocks IR.

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aroch
I guess we're on a 4 year cycle?

"Apple awarded patent for geo-fencing profile changes to stop you texting in
the theater"

[https://www.engadget.com/2012/08/28/apple-geofence-
profile-p...](https://www.engadget.com/2012/08/28/apple-geofence-profile-
patent/)

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acjacobson
Any time restricting devices are entertained I worry about the potential for
abuse. Would there be restrictions on these transmitters? Could someone easily
make their own? I can imagine police departments that don't like the
inconvenience of everyone having a camera in their pocket using these to shut
down the recording of arrests or other police actions.

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endgame
Exactly. Don't design mechanisms unless you're happy with every policy from
the set of all possible policies!

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rahimnathwani
If this were implemented against users' wishes, and caused serious
inconvenience, it wouldn't be long before mass-market stick-on infrared cut-
off filters were available

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_cut-
off_filter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_cut-off_filter)

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makecheck
Just like you don’t develop an encryption backdoor for “only the good guys”,
you don’t develop features like these and expect them to be used only as
intended.

Keeping photos out of movie theaters might sound noble but this feature could
be hacked by anyone who has a real problem with being photographed.

Then there’s the fact that the simpler implementation is less likely to have
bugs. Once there are 12 ways for the camera to be “off”, how many sources of
bugs must be checked to be sure that the camera won’t turn off when it’s
supposed to be available, or vice-versa?

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dnqthao
What if someone wants to record a crime happening inside a cinema?

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creshal
The needs of content producers clearly outweigh this minor inconvenience. /s

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bertil
I expect Apple to use the blocking patent to fight anyone who tries to
implement a similar solution: it makes more sense than telling their customer
what to do — although Apple has always preferred to exert control to protect
quality, and those grainy videos and having their devices be treated as
obstacles is very much not on-brand.

Using the information one to let users know where to find the professionally
recorded live-feed (and possible reconstruction of any given spectator’s point
of view) sounds like a better option.

~~~
centizen
Given Apple's recent crusade for security of their devices, I would not be
surprised at all if they obtained this patent for the sole purpose of
preventing other companies from creating similar solutions.

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curiousgal
What the fuck? Seriously what the fuck? Am I the only one who thinks this is
beyond absurd? Sure it's just a patent but it speaks clearly of what they
think of their customers. I never owned an Apple product except my iPod
Shuffle but the thought of not owning what I paid good money for is
ridiculous.

Ironically, halfway through the article:

    
    
        Buy Now: Apple iPhone 6S (16GB) at Amazon for £523.99

~~~
k-mcgrady
I think your overreacting. Like you say - it's just a patent. The use cases
(concerts/cinemas) might not be the actual use cases. Think of it as something
like the feature some drones have to prevent you entering no-fly zones. In the
end it all depends how they use the tech. If concert venues started using it
they would lose a lot of business and see a lot of backlash. I could see this
being useful in a location where you expect your privacy to be protected and
some morons is snapping photos. Off the top of my head a polling centre. When
I voted last week there were signs everywhere asking people to turn off their
phones - and at the same time people were taking selfies. This isn't the best
case for implementing but it's the best off the top of my head. Basically it
would be useful in places where nobody is legally allowed to take photographs
but it's difficult to enforce.

~~~
letitleak
Warning the user that it may be illegal to take photos is reasonable, but
making a device that acts on the theoretical authority of someone else against
its own/possessor is not. Taking your example of polls, it may be illegal for
me to take a photo, but it may be my responsibility to do it anyways. For
example, I may see visual evidence of large scale voting fraud within a
polling station. It is similar for sensitive data and whistle-blowers.

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gmac
It's hard to believe they'd actually do something so hostile to their paying
customers.

~~~
M4v3R
It's only a patent, and old patent for that matter. Apple has many patents for
stuff they never implement.

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V-2
If they ruled it out, however, they wouldn't have obtained the patent in the
first place

~~~
givinguflac
Yes, because every patent a company holds is explicitly intended for public
use. No one ever patents something because it's a new and unique idea right?
/s

~~~
V-2
Strawman argument? All I said is that apparently they don't rule it out. Of
course we cannot know for sure either way, but we should consider the context
here. Apple, of all companies, is probably the most infamous for its policy of
tight control over user devices. The idea itself is not extraordinarily hard
to come up with, and yet it happens to be no other than Apple who thought it
worthwhile to patent it. I think scepticism is perfectly justified in this
case

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silon7
This is why you don't buy DRM and root your devices.

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ojii
Can I get that transmitter as wearable tech to prevent people from taking
pictures of me?

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pessimizer
Why is everyone excited about driverless cars again?

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alexwilde
Major overreaction on this thread. Companies often incentives their employees
to create patents. Often patents are use for protection purposes even if they
never make it into the companies tech.

For Example: Company X sues Apple stating they infringe on a patent. Apple
turns around and throws 10 patents back that infringe on their tech.

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leecarraher
I understand this is just a patent, for a potential feature, However it
implies that apple will happily bend to the desires and whims of the mpaa.
Which is odd given their flat out denial to cooperate with govt entities to
prosecute mass shooters and kiddy diddlers ... an interesting moral compass
that Tim Cook has.

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zoul
If only they would make it possible to enforce silent mode on concerts, that
would be something.

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mgkimsal
I wonder if there'd be a halfway mode, whereby the commands to the camera
would be something like "only take a picture in really poor quality mode". You
could still get your pics, but the value would be nowhere near 'professional'.

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ccvannorman
The instant that this is done I will drop my iPhone and get another brand,
probably for life.

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basicplus2
another nail in the coffin being made for democracy

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Kristine1975
How so?

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basicplus2
eg blocking people from recording police beating up or kidknapping
protestors.. just as one of a zillion possibilities

~~~
csydas
While I agree that the fear of your scenarios is reasonable, the way the
patent is described doesn't seem to really support that use scenario - they'd
have to have an infared emitter pointing towards the camera presumably with
enough juice behind it to be detectable by the camera from a variety of
distances, and I don't think that you can power a mobile emitter like that
easily right now. Maybe attached to squad cars, but it still appears
directional from my understanding.

And all things being equal, it seems more likely that the police would take a
much more practical approach of "take recording device" if they wanted to
suppress information reliably.

I'm not saying no scrutiny should be given to apple on this, but it is a bit
important also to keep discussions rational and free of emotional outbursts,
if only to keep focus on the subject at hand.

Stuff like "nail in coffin" is just kind of overly dramatic for very real
fears and concerns.

[http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=H...](http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220110128384%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20110128384&RS=DN/20110128384)

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jrockway
Maybe they are patenting it so someone else can't, thus the undesirable
technology never comes into use.

Don't think that's what patents are for, but hey, I'll take it.

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TheSoftwareGuy
Google could do the same thing with android, and would be more likely to, IMO

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jhasse
Android is open-source, so you could just flash a ROM without that feature.

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themihai
Not so fast...without manufacturer support you can't do that. Also many parts
of android are actually close-source. The only mobile open source OS that you
can actually use, build, modify is Ubuntu

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jhasse
Can you tell me which part of Android (AOSP, not Google Play Services of
course) is close-sourced?

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forgottenpass
The parts that people, manufacturers, carriers and Google themselves refer to
by using the word "Andriod" in any context other than splitting hairs about
AOSP.

~~~
jhasse
I think on HN most people would say that Cyanogenmod is an Android ROM and
that Amazon is using Android on their Fire tablets. Also there are many
(mostly Chinese) manufactures which claim Android support without officially
supporting running the Google proprietary Play services.

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lsiunsuex
I know 2 more use cases that have nothing to do with cinemas or concerts.

A past job I held was banking related. Cell phones were not allowed on the
call center floor for fear of employees taking pictures of computer screens
with customer data on them.

Install a few of these infrared transmitters; problem solved. Employees can
still get texts / calls from family members / friends and customer data
remains safe. You might need a lot of transmitters to get past the cubical
walls, but if it's an investment the company is willing to make and the
sensors are cheap enough - why not.

2 - a friend tells me she works for a US government agency and phones are not
allowed in her building either. Same reason - to protect sensitive data; but
the same, their about to have their first child and it would be important if
she was at work and there was an emergency with the baby that she gets a call
from whoever in a timely manor. Sure - you could call her office / extension
but if she's not at her desk, in the lunch room (their instructed to leave
phones in their cars), in a meeting, etc...

Most people don't abide by those rules; while I was there, we tried our
hardest to enforce it. If IT saw a phone on the floor, we were told to report
it; if security saw a phone, they'd have to hold it at the front desk, but
people are sneaky - you can't search everyones purse, bag, lunch and you
surely can't pat them down. Not with hundreds of employees coming and going
all day. This could help fix all of that.

As I type this - can add taking pictures of a test in school and cheating. Add
a few transmitters to a classroom.

~~~
jkot
Cell phone != camera.

I have $20 dump phone with no camera for exactly this reason. And it lasts 30
days on battery :-)

Infrared transmitters will not solve anything. Too easy to hack this with IR
filters etc..

~~~
lsiunsuex
Right - but we are talking about Apple and we can assume this is for an iPhone
or something else planned. Most people don't want to carry a 2nd phone and
have a 2nd line / bill.

I think people are really over reacting to this, obviously, as I got a down
vote. If it's used in inappropriate places; there will be backlash - ie: a
restaurant, a child's recital. But for places with sensitive data or copy-
written work - why not.

