
Coding Like a Girl - kenpratt
https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce
======
Fomite
Guidelines and reactions on how to dress are always eye opening. I remember
reading some advice for academic job interviews. For men, it was essentially
remember to _wear clothing_ , don't dress like an investment banker, and
you'll be fine.

For women, it was paragraphs long. Too feminine and they'll mistake you for a
departmental secretary. Too youthful and they'll dismiss you as a student. Too
severe and you're "not collegial". Too approachable and you're not serious.
The whole thing was just a minefield.

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MollyR
This article makes me wonder if I work in a weird microcosm of the tech world.

Where I work, half the programmers dress in t-shirt,jeans (both men and women
50/50 actually) and then the other half of programmers(again 50/50) dress much
more business professional. Even some of the graphic designers dress really
formally lately, think pant suit.

From what I talked around about and discovered, a lot of it has to do with
some of their career ambitions. Some of the more formally dressed programmers
want to be project managers, or they read a book on business etiquette and
want job security or something. It's where I first learned of books like
Corporate Confidential, and others on business politics.

My personal anecdote: Honestly I've gotten the harshest criticism including
gendered criticism from other women in the corp on the way I dress. The
harshest criticism included gendered doesn't even come from the tech side, but
business or research analysts. I don't know if the my team's tech guys care or
not, but they sure haven't made comments one way or the other. Why is so much
criticism of women being in tech at the tech guys and not at the other men AND
women in other departments enforcing stereotypes in the company ?

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leppr
I'm a man and the same thing happens to me all the time. People always tell me
"What? You're too handsome and muscular, I don't believe you're a programmer,
programmer look like geeks and are socially awkward!". It's really tough to
fit in at work. Lately I've been growing my beard and drinking beers because
of the social pressure, but I feel bad about it. I really wish people would
stop putting everyone in a stereotype and just look at our work first,
updating their mental stereotypes afterwards if need be.

~~~
mycroft-holmes
Same here. I worked at a creative agency some time ago and nearly every
employee, men and women, at some point told me, "You know, you don't really
look like a coder to me. You're too fashionable and you're not socially
awkward."

I just take it in stride. What's the big deal? I just don't make it some huge
issue that's related to my gender.

~~~
nickysielicki
Last semester I got an email from a startup called Moocho looking for summer
interns. This is the email word for word.

``

> Moocho Campus Manager:

> You’ll be our quarterback. We want you to recruit, train and lead a team of
> Campus Ambassadors to spread the word about Moocho on your campus. Guide
> your team to success while getting real experience in the process. We want
> you to make students know, love and use Moocho on your campus.

> Think you’re up for it?

> Moocho Campus Ambassador

> Get paid to help Moocho spread the word about an (and maybe we’re biased
> here) awesome app that lets you spend money around campus with your phone.
> Work with other students and get some real experience. It’s good for your
> resume and great for your bank account.

> Moocho Campus CTO

> Are you a tech-loving dork or dweeb? Do people kick sand in your face at the
> computer lab? Are your arms thin and pale - kinda like a good piece of veal?
> Then you, my nerdy friend, are in luck. Moocho is hiring a tech-savvy Campus
> Tech Officer for UW and we want you (or your geeky friends) to apply.

``

The contrast between the business jobs and the tech job is mind blowing.

My reply was

>Is this a fucking joke?! This is what you think of software engineers?

>This is the problem with you management types, computers are pure magic to
you, and if someone understands it, it must because they're frail, socially
retarded, and live in their parent's basement, right?

>Fuck off.

... In retrospect I may have been making their point about the lack of social
grace that software engineers may or may not have, but c'est la vie.

Just goes to show that this profession is not one that necessarily has a lot
of glory, but at least for me, once I was exposed to the magic underneath our
modern internet I was hooked-- there was no way I was going to ever do
anything else. What could possibly be unmanly about that?

~~~
mkr-hn
I would have gone this way: "I'm a popular, fit, and well-respected engineer.
Given your description for the CTO position, I may not be the right fit. Is
the dated stereotype vital to the role, or are you flexible?"

Gives them a chance to save face (or prove it's not a good work environment).

~~~
nickysielicki
I definitely should have put a bit more thought into sending that email, it
comes across as abrasive and I don't like to think of myself as that kind of
person. One of my biggest faults is that I'm much too keen on burning bridges.

In their defense, looking through my inbox just now, I noticed they later sent
out an email with everything the same, except for including a more positive
remark regarding their tech position. I think they realized it was out of
line.

> Moocho Campus CTO

> Do you have an aptitude for technology? Always looking for the next best
> thing? Do friends call you to fix their computer? Moocho is looking for a
> tech-savy Campus Tech Officer for Wisconsin and we want you to apply.

With that being said, I don't think I'm missing out on an opportunity of a
lifetime there. I should be more considerate, though.

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tomlock
Awesome article! I hope my fellow dudes read this and really pay attention!

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CmonDev
The problem is that the rules of man-woman interaction are not well defined
(especially since the traditional family was destroyed last century). Is there
a way to look at girl in a cute pink dress and tell whether she is there to
just present a tech topic or she is also open to potential dating? Women are a
passive gender, so the way they dress is one of the few ways to send a signal.

~~~
rakoo
You seem to be falling in the "they dress for men" fallacy that was addressed
in the article: maybe they dress in cute pink dresses just to send a big FUCK
YOU. Maybe they're not sending any signals and you're using that as an excuse
for the different treatment you do.

But the real problem is that the situations you are talking about do not
happen when meeting a complete stranger at random in the street; the encounter
happens in a _tech conference_ or _at work_ , where you can expect people to
be there because of their skills and interests.

Would you ever expect any male to be present in a tech conf not because he's
interested in the technology but because he's accompanying someone ? Why is it
normal to expect it for females ?

The problem is _absolutely not_ in how women dress/behave/talk/present, it's
how the other persons (including other women!) expect something different
simply because of their gender.

