
Engineers say Boeing pushed to limit safety testing in race to certify planes - spking
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/engineers-say-boeing-pushed-to-limit-safety-testing-in-race-to-certify-planes-including-737-max/
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oldjokes
The thing I don't understand is that if Boeing has been this bad for this
long, as many reports indicate, how has nobody come forward to talk about it
until these crashes? Zero whistleblowers? Zero people worried about safety
enough to call a journalist? How?

The MCAS system design is just so obviously flawed I can't understand how
nobody stuck their feet in sand and started saying no, under any
circumstances, this is not happening.

I guess you could apply the same question to the people at the FAA, but even
after reading the article I still don't understand how the FAA is involved in
oversight at all. It kind of seems like they are just checking boxes, but I'll
admit that as an outsider the whole FAA/regulatory system is not really
something I think I can wrap my head around.

~~~
mschuster91
People saw what happened to Assange, locked up in an embassy, to Snowden,
having to hide in Russia, to Manning, rotting in a cell again, and to
countless other whistleblowers worldwide.

The chilling effect is real.

What has likely also played a part: at-will employment and blacklisting.

~~~
simion314
I could see a scenario where an engineer would have gone to the press and the
result would have been him getting sued for damages because of the
accusations, of breaking NDAs if he signed ones, for stealing documents if he
presented any evidence etc.

We also seen how the public was trying so hard to blame the pilots so I could
see how most of the public would defend Boeing and FAA since they had a very
good reputation and they would ask for some unreasonable proof(one airplane
crash was not enough so it is clear the proof would have to be extreme for
something to happen).

~~~
CaptainZapp
_We also seen how the public was trying so hard to blame the pilots so I could
see how most of the public would defend Boeing and FAA since they had a very
good reputation and they would ask for some unreasonable proof_

To me it seems Boeing is still fully at it. They never changed their narative
from (I'm paraphrasing here)

"There was a slight technical problem, which may have been a tiny link in the
chain, which would have been no problem at all if those planes would have been
flown by competent Murrican pilots and not badly trained third world dolts."

I see this argument pushed forward on discussion boards and social media
(including HN) and can't rid myself of the impression that Boeing employs sock
puppets to push such bullshit.

The arrogance of this company, which literally kills people, to me is beyond
comprehension.

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mrnobody_67
It's crazy that the certification engineers literally work for, collect a pay
check from, and report to management at the company they are supposed to be
overseeing. Clearly a system designed with the manufacturer's interest in mind
-- It'd be impossible for this not to be abused by someone at some point with
the way its structured, and obviously it has.

Also, 10,000 engineers required to move certification in-house? Can someone
explain why it'd be so high?

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simion314
This puts doubt in all the tests procedure that were done by Boeing after this
institutional changes, so even more then the mentioned systems may be not
compliant but only some engineers protested.

IMO the plane needs a complete re-certification, all the systems with no
relaxed tests or special exceptions.

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Evidlo
Maybe the title should read "Engineers say Boeing pushed safety testing to
limit in race to certify planes".

The current formulation is really strange.

~~~
level3
In the title, "limit" is used as a verb, not a noun. In other words, Boeing
pushed to reduce the required amount of safety testing, in order to certify
their planes faster.

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sabareesh
Whole mcas thing feels like my experience building model airplane. I built
this really unstable plane when i do the the throttle so i put a flight
controller similar to one in quadcopter and now i had a very stable plane
until gyroscope fails.

~~~
simion314
MCAS issue is just a symptom, the cause is explained well in the article and
many other subsystems are problematic, tests had to be adjusted and an
experienced engineer had to be transferred to allow for the fire suppression
system to get approved.

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LifeLiverTransp
I would love to have the travel data of boeing management- i would like to see
wether they still wanted to fly with there own planes.

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mycall
To say this, it means there is literally people to hold accountable.

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andrekandre
from the article:

> But his insistence on a higher level of safety scrutiny cost Boeing time and
> money.

i would say that is the crux of it if there was one

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NTDF9
So Boeing is the FB/Equifax/Exxon of Airlines?

Move fast break lives?

