
Gmail Sidesteps the App Store - zen53
http://www.technologyreview.com/communications/22424/?nlid=1952&a=f
======
stephencelis
The fact that Google is utilizing HTML5 client-side storage is cool.

The emphasis this article places on a nonexistent battle between the App Store
and web apps is misleading.

Google didn't "sidestep" the App Store. Google took advantage of the web
platform Apple provides because that platform makes more sense.

Web apps do miss a few things, though:

    
    
      * Speed-ups from stepping outside of a UIWebView
      * Instant Springboard real estate
      * Instant monetization via Apple "one-click"
      * All the APIs wep apps don't have access to
    

I don't mean to imply it makes sense to port every web app over, but the
platforms are quite different, and those differences should probably not be
understated.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
"Instant Springboard real estate"

You can easily add web apps or pages to the iPhones home screen, it's the
button right below "bookmark". You even get a nice icon if it specified
correctly using the appropriate HTML5

~~~
stephencelis
"Easily", but not "instantly".

If you download an app, it goes to your Springboard till you remove it. If you
visit a web page, it doesn't go to your Springboard till you take action and
bookmark it. But yes, the "apple-touch-icon" is a nice touch.

~~~
tvon
You're adding weight to actions and ignoring weight on other actions. "Go to
app sore, find app, click 'buy', enter password" isn't really any simpler than
"Go to URL, click '+', click 'add to home screen'".

Neither is "instant", though the App store process is streamlined to a
specific purpose.

~~~
stephencelis
The difference is that you can visit a website without adding it to your
Springboard. You can't try an app, however, without adding it to your
Springboard. I'm weighing requirements vs. options.

------
tewks
Isn't this, rich web apps, what Steve Jobs originally said should happen when
asked why an SDK/third party native apps weren't going to be made available?

~~~
allenbrunson
steve jobs _never_ said that web apps were a replacement for real third-party
apps. in 2007 he said that web apps are what we've got now, and then he failed
to comment at all on any upcoming sdk, because apple never talks about
unreleased products.

~~~
jacobolus
Yes he did. He said:

> _“Developers and users alike are going to be very surprised and pleased at
> how great these applications look and work on iPhone,” said Steve Jobs,
> Apple’s CEO. “Our innovative approach, using Web 2.0-based standards, lets
> developers create amazing new applications while keeping the iPhone secure
> and reliable.”_

And the rest of the press release said:

> _“Developers can create Web 2.0 applications which look and behave just like
> the applications built into iPhone, and which can seamlessly access iPhone’s
> services, [...]”_

> _“Web 2.0-based applications are being embraced by leading developers
> because they are far more interactive and responsive than traditional web
> applications, and can be easily distributed over the Internet and painlessly
> updated by simply changing the code on the developers’ own servers. The
> modern web standards also provide secure data access and transactions, like
> those used with Amazon.com or online banking.”_

~~~
allenbrunson
nowhere in there does it say that there will never be a native-app sdk. you
are putting words in his mouth.

~~~
mlinsey
Nice jujitsu there. You previously wrote "steve jobs never said that web apps
were a replacement for real third-party apps." jacobolus pointed out several
places where Jobs unambiguously drew comparisons between web apps and native
apps. Now it's "nowhere in there does it say that there will never be a
native-app sdk."

You're right in that Jobs clearly was not _ruling out_ native apps. But his
comments pretty clearly imply that web apps on iPhone make native apps
unnecessary.

~~~
allenbrunson
jobs was selling what he had available at the moment, which only makes sense.
yes, a lot of people were disappointed that he didn't announce a true sdk at
the time, but i'm pretty sure it was because it wasn't anywhere near ready
yet.

jobs didn't hint around that true sdk-style apps were coming, because apple
never talks about unreleased products, unless absolutely forced to. the
introduction of the iphone itself was one of only a very few times where this
happened. if apple _hadn't_ preannounced the iphone, the story would have
gotten out anyway, due to fcc filings.

the oft-repeated refrain that "jobs said web apps were good enough" is mean-
spirited and wrong. i suppose it's so often repeated because people felt he
was being deceitful or patronizing at wwdc 2007, when web apps were
introduced. that's one way to interpret it. i choose a different one: apple is
secretive. you can claim it's not the best tactic, but it's what apple does. i
for one thing the positives of that policy outweigh the negatives.

~~~
jacobolus
> _jobs was selling what he had available at the moment, which only makes
> sense._ <

What's your point? No one in this thread ever suggested otherwise.

> _the oft-repeated refrain that "jobs said web apps were good enough" is
> mean-spirited and wrong. i suppose it's so often repeated because people
> felt he was being deceitful or patronizing at wwdc 2007,_ <

He did say that, and he was being patronizing. Many (most?) informed observers
were able to figure out that Apple would probably allow native apps as soon as
they were ready, and that the official Apple line was a load of bull.

Also, how is it mean spirited? It's neither malicious nor petty to simply call
a spade a spade.

------
tjogin
So this newfangled thing called web apps is going to offset the App Store, is
that it?

The author of the article assumes that the App Store is a _problem_ to iPhone
developers. It is not, it's a _solution_ — one mobile and other developers
have been waiting for several years.

------
nirmal
While HTML5 storage is good, I think the main advantage of native apps is
access to hardware. Projects like Phonegap ( <http://phonegap.com/> ) help you
write a native app that is a website with special JS-based access to the
hardware. However, if Phonegap were to release a free browser like BigFive
Apps <http://www.big5apps.com/> then I think they could build a more powerful
web platform for the iphone and ipod that could be a great place to advertise
a "web" version of your app.

~~~
ErrantX
and the security implications of that would be insane...

~~~
tvon
It's not as bad as it sounds (though I gave you an upvote). You'd just have to
limit the access to browser apps that have been "installed" to the home
screen. I'm sure people would go nuts, but I think it could be done relatively
safely.

~~~
nirmal
Right, I should have said this. My point was not a browser that replaces
Safari, but something that is more of a app where you could find a list of
website specifically targeted to the platform.

~~~
ErrantX
So, essentially, an App appstore - that sounds like a great idea.

TBH I did assume that was what you meant; but it was worth making the point :)

------
spolsky
I'm totally confused. Doesn't this mean that Gmail only works when you're
online? Which means... higher battery usage than a native email client, higher
bandwidth usage, slower response time, doesn't work in airplanes, etc.?

~~~
tvon
With offline storage it can work much like offline gmail using Gears on the
desktop. That's more or less the point.

Google around for HTML5 and offline storage.

~~~
briansmith
That is the theory. Does it actually work on the iPhone/iPod touch when there
is no connection?

~~~
TetOn
Yes.

With the requisite warnings about "no connection present" duly dismissed (this
is an iPod Touch 2.0, so no AT&T network backstopping it either), I can browse
my GMail inbox, read messages, make changes, and perform seemingly any
"normal" mail function all without a connection. Obviously will _have_ to
connect at some point for it to be useful, but can do everything but
send/receive new messages while away from a network connection.

------
adamhowell
The article didn't seem to say where in the app they were actually using
Canvas -- anyone have any idea?

~~~
haxorize
According to the official Gmail blog:

"The HTML5 canvas tag is used to render the progress spinner without the
overhead of downloading animated GIFs to the device."

[http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-mobile-gmail-
exper...](http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-mobile-gmail-experience-
for-iphone.html)

~~~
adamhowell
Oh, jeez, maybe it's just me but that seems like technology for technology's
sake. A spinner can be compressed to, what, 1k or so? I guess they should have
drawn the Google logo with canvas, too.

~~~
teej
It's not only a download concern. Downloading and watching animated gifs on
the iPhone is a terrible experience - it's choppy, skips frames, and just
doesn't look good. Doing an animated gif wasn't an option for Google.

------
bumbledraven
The startup time is way too slow: the built-in Mail app shows my inbox almost
instantly, but -- with 5 bars of 3G! -- almost 20 seconds elapse between the
time I click the Gmail bookmark on the Springboard and the time my inbox
appears.

