
Britain’s European allies desert it in a vote at the UN - vinnyglennon
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21724393-isolated-island-battles-hang-its-outpost-indian-ocean-britains-european-allies?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/britainseuropeanalliesdesertitinavoteattheun
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arca_vorago
I had buddies who spent time in Diego Garcia, before I knew how it came to be
a US base. I think it's horrible how it was aquired and we should immediately
make moves towards reperations and departure, or at least agreement to
payments for lease. I'm tired of my country increasingly acting like an empire
of force when that goes against everything I was taught we should stand for.
More than that though, is the inability to admit wrongdoing and learn from
past mistakes, at least in public.

Recently the state department has been undergoing some upheaval due to the
tumultous new POTUS. One was complaining to me about it and my response was
they they should have gotten rid of the war-criminal Kissinger/Zbrenzski group
a long time ago and they might have avoided some of this blowback. Too many
DoS people essentially worship Kissinger as the inventor of American
diplomacy. Hogwash I say. It's time for real leadership in the executive to
take control of the state department and other agencies and reduce what I call
Machiavellian realpolitik run amok.

Here is Kissingers comment on Diego Garcia. “There are only 90,000 people out
there. Who gives a damn?”

~~~
devnonymous
> I'm tired of my country increasingly acting like an empire of force when
> that goes against everything I was taught we should stand for.

What surprises me everytime I interact with Americans is their naivety in
their assumption that the leaders / politicians are any different or even
better than those from any other country. Their belief that somehow these
people who fight tremendous odds (almost certainly not ethically) to get to
where they are, managed to do this while being true to any kind of moral
compass.

For that sort of thing to be true would necessitate that Americans be
essentially different than other humans.

IOW, I am surprised that Americans do not realise that the only difference
between POTUS and Kim Jong Un or Saddam or... Is what they can reasonably get
away with doing.

~~~
ethbro
_> IOW, I am surprised that Americans do not realise that the only difference
between POTUS and Kim Jong Un or Saddam or... Is what they can reasonably get
away with doing._

Fyi, I imagine you're getting down voted because, to my knowledge, the current
US government doesn't have labor camps or gas minorities.

A better soapbox might have been "histoically, the US is as guilty as anyone
of exterminating indiginous peoples."

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tomohawk
Diego Garcia is a very strategic place. If the US/UK were to leave, who would
take it over? Most likely the Chinese would move in. There's no really good
answer there.

The EU taking the stance that they are taking is really kind of
counterproductive. They know nothing is going to come of it and they waste an
opportunity for reproachment with the UK. They also just make the brexit case
even stronger, confirming what many say about the euros not really having the
best interests of the UK (or even themselves) in mind in many instances.

~~~
dvdplm
Most likely Mauritius would lease Diego Garcia to the US, just like the UK
did, hopefully while negotiating a much better deal for the Chagossians.

It is not at all clear to me what lies behind Britains reluctance to concede
here. They know very well they did wrong – violating their own rules – lopping
off the territory in the first place. What if there really isn't any
conspiracy behind the EU stance here, what if they simply vote what they
believe is right?

~~~
7952
Brits just want to swagger about and feel honourable. Look at how they dealt
with the return of Hong Kong to China. Pomp, ceremony, wonderful! This grubby
little problem just goes against that pride. So we just ignore it.

~~~
ethbro
To be fair, Hong Kong isn't very happy about no longer being British now.
(Different example than current, as there are a huge number of native
civilians living there)

------
avinash
I am Mauritian and the whole country is incredibly proud of this achievement,
small David against huge Goliath.

Of course, we also know that there is still a long way to go before the
conclusion.

~~~
5_minutes
Right on, good for you guys.

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leke
I saw a documentary on how Britain deported the island's natives. It was
pretty sick. They killed all their dogs, then told them, get on this boat or
you're next.

After many years, what was left of the islanders won a court case against
Britain who then turned around and said, good luck trying to get to your
island in one piece. They continue to rent the island to the US.

~~~
ficklepickle
So Kissinger said there was "only" 90 000 people there, and 1500 are in
Britain... What happened to the other 88 500 people?

Edit: They went to Mauritius and the Seychelles, apparently
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Garcia)

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dalbasal
The UN's one big jab is to prevent nuclear war by limiting border disputes.
I'm not sure what the value of them weighing in on this case. What happens
if/when the ICJ issues its non-binding ruling that the Islands needs to change
hands? If the UK doesn't leave, does it become an illegal occupation?

I think it diminishes the UN's authority to have it issue edicts that are not
going to be implemented or enforced.

~~~
mschuster91
> I think it diminishes the UN's authority to have it issue edicts that are
> not going to be implemented or enforced.

The UN _does_ have enforcement (by the way of international military
missions), unfortunately as long as either the US or the Russians/China have
veto powers this enforcement will only be used against African or former-
Yugoslavian countries.

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kome
I feel really bad for Chagossians people; I didn't know about their struggle.
Deporting 1,500 individuals is simply crazy, who decided that simply didn't
consider Chagossians to be humans. I hope the UK/US Army will leave for good.

~~~
dghughes
I live on an island in Canada an I can say people who live on islands feel
close to each other. It's like a small town but at another level again since
you are isolated from others.

It would be terrible to have families moved they eventually lose contact with
their neighbours in a city like Crawley. The environment for the people born
in a tropical island compared to cold urban Crawley would have been
depressing.

~~~
weinzierl
> ...I can say people who live on islands feel close to each other

The Chagossians were deported by the UK, so technically some islanders
deported other islanders.

~~~
dghughes
Ha! I never thought of that.

------
nimish
FYI, this is what the ".io" CCTLD stands for.

~~~
mthoms
Indeed. Here's a fascinating article with (some of) the back story of the
islands and the TLD: [http://citizen-ex.com/stories/io](http://citizen-
ex.com/stories/io)

------
pbhjpbhj
Sounds like someone might get benefit out of the Leave voters, IMO
misdirected, notion of sovereignty.

They can hardly argue (consistently) it's wrong for small island to get full
self-determination when this was one of the major positives being floated for
Brexit.

~~~
calpaterson
I have a sneaking suspicion few British voters even know the Chagos
Archipelago exists.

~~~
Someone
I would think many more would know Diego Garcia exists (both among British
voters and world-wide). Most of them probably would also know it's an island
somewhere far away from main land masses. In that sense, they would know the
Chagos Archipelago exists, even they don't know its name, or that it is an
archipelago.

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awkwarddaturtle
> has become indispensable for America’s armed forces, who nickname it “the
> footprint of freedom”

Footprint of freedom? Come on. Why do we have to do that? As a naive little
kid, maybe it would make me proud. As a rational adult, it's so cringeworthy
and childish and pathetic. Especially when you learn that the island/atoll was
basically stolen from the people and the people were forcibly expelled by the
british just so that we can play world police.

~~~
mnm1
You know when the word "freedom" is used by Americans, especially American
government, it can only refer to oppression, slavery, and war. Basically, the
exact opposite. I wouldn't mind all of our crimes against humanity quite as
much if we were just honest with ourselves and everyone else about what they
are. But it has to be like this because most adults here are dumber than the
naive little kid you describe. They don't realize the irony and are actually
proud of such things. The mindset you grew out of as a little child is their
adult mindset.

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Kequc
So it's an issue of the sovereignty of the islands then? The argument I'm
hearing is that due to the UK leaning in favour of sovereignty, that it can no
longer continue to, by default, control the islands? So allow the islands to
hold a vote.

This seems like it was a vote held by other countries on whether or not they
supported these islands not being allowed sovereignty even if they wanted it.

~~~
ithkuil
All inhabitants have been forcefully evicted. There is nobody who could vote
there. It's administered from an office in London. The UK has rented the
biggest island to the US army. Once a year officials from UK and the US
military gather to discuss issues about the base, and they meet in London to
do so.

Under these circumstances it's clear why the legal fight is fought by far
away.

------
potlee
Thanks EU! The EU is our only hope for sane antidote against a US/UK power
monopoly.

~~~
Theodores
There is no US/UK power monopoly. The rest of the world is resurgent and
willing not to be brow-beaten into line.

I find it hard to believe that the British government have allies. As for
British people, sure, friends all over the world, but the British government?
I am scratching my head. Apart from the U.S. maybe it is just the Falkland
Islands and maybe Gibraltar that are genuine 'allies'.

Even the relationship with the U.S. government is a bit strange - the 'special
relationship' is something the likes of Tony Blair bark on about but the U.S.
government don't use the term so readily, regardless of the intellect of the
POTUS.

The deal with the E.U. was never on equal terms, e.g. adoption of the Euro or
free movement of people, the U.K. was just one of those relatives with special
needs that the E.U. had to put up with.

Even the Commonwealth is something you never really hear about these days. I
doubt the average British citizen/subject can name five members of the
Commonwealth correctly. Sure the leaders of Commonwealth countries might
curtsy for the Queen but there is no guaranteed backing for what Britain does
from any Commonwealth country.

The NATO alliance is just a collection of vassal states corrupted and bullied
by the U.S. into some 'alliance'. There is no bond between Turkey and the
U.K., these 'allies' are just 'allies' because the U.S. wants to have its
weapons in Turkey as well as in the U.K. Same applies for the other NATO
countries, there is no special love for Blighty just because our soldiers
dress up in silly uniforms and play wargames together.

Essentially the US/UK governments have lost the respect of the rest of the
world, even if there are loyal stooges in place, e.g. those in-bred oiks that
claim to be royal family in Saudi Arabia. This lack of respect results in a
lack of fear and growing of backbone, hence decisions such as this.

