
Big Sugar Versus Your Body - hvo
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/11/opinion/sugar-industry-health.html
======
beggi
The author conflates sugar/honey etc (pure carbs - glucose, fructose) and
artificial sweeteners like stevia and erythritol which don't have any effect
on your blood glucose and really are completely different. I fully agree with
the premise of minimizing sugar consumption but I don't think encouraging
people to avoid certain artificial sweeteners like stevia etc is helpful - and
in fact it's hurting because certain products with these non blood glucose
contributing substitutes help people avoid sugar.

Note that although artificial sweeteners like stevia and erythritol don't
raise the blood glucose at all and have GI index of zero or near zero - some
artificial sweeteners actually do raise blood glucose, like maltitol etc, and
these sweeteners are unfortunately often found in sugar-free candy. You can
try a web search for "GI index artificial sweeteners" to see a list of
sweeteners that have low GI score.

Something else to keep in mind is that over consumption of very carb heavy
products like bread or pasta will have the exact same effect on your blood
glucose as just eating sugar.

~~~
matte_black
I couldn’t read the article, so I will only go off what I imagine the article
might say (like pretty much every other nytimes article).

The problem with making food taste more sugary, with or without artificial
sweeteners, is that as a society we are growing too accustomed to hyper-
stimulating foods. Why can’t people just live with the fact that every food
doesn’t need to be loaded with sugar and instead open their palates to the
notes that come from natural flavors?

It’s like people want their hair to be blown back every time the fork goes in
their mouth.

~~~
derefr
> instead open their palates to the notes that come from natural flavors

Presumably because people are eating things that, underneath the sugar, are
pretty much tasteless.

Consider the American Chinese staple of "sweet and sour pork." What does it
taste like, without the sweet and sour sauce? Well... it's deep-fried boiled
pork. Would you eat _plain_ deep-fried boiled pork? Even as a side-dish?

If we take away the artificial flavors, a large number of (usually cheaper!)
dishes simply cease to exist. Palatable food—especially palatable _fast_
food—would get a lot more expensive. What of the people who work all day, end
up too tired to cook, and yet don't end up with enough money for healthy food?

(If the answer is "we don't want those people to be in that situation in the
first place", then try solving that problem—if you manage it, I have a feeling
it would largely solve America's obesity epidemic as a byproduct.)

------
deyan
I can confirm at least one part of this story with a personal anecdote:

As a child, I absolutely loved, craved, was addicted to Coca Cola. A liter a
day, perhaps more. Coming to the US, I noticed that it tasted different
because of substituting sugar with high fructose corn syrup. No problem - I
switched to Mexican Coca Cola (the one in a glass bottle) - and carried on.

Fast forward to after grad school, I wanted to get in a better shape, without
giving up sweets entirely (I definitely have a sweet tooth). So the first
thing I did is to not buy coke. I could still get it if I wanted - the local
7-11 was literally across the street from my place. But it was no longer
convenient - I had to get dressed and cross the street, deal with the line,
the cashier, pay more for my guilty pleasure, etc. I still went, but
definitely less and less frequently.

Fast forward a few years and coke started to taste very "heavy" to me. It had
this aftertaste that I never noticed before but could no longer shake off. I
found myself frequently unable to finish a bottle of coke. My cravings started
getting less and less pronounced. This downward (well, upward in terms of
health) slope continued and today I no longer crave Coca Cola at all, drinking
it perhaps 5 times a year, if that. And even then I can't really do more than
a few sips.

I look back on this and it honestly feels a bit surreal, knowing that my
starting point was (multiple) liters per day and true joy and love for that
sugary drink.

So progress is definitely possible as long as I took care to make the right
choice the easy choice. Don't go hungry to the supermarket. Don't buy things
because that makes them easily available, testing your willpower, which is
inevitably finite. Make a few basic rules to follow rather than agonize over
every small decision and feel guilty afterwards (just like the article said).
Simple stuff like that.

Some things will stick, others won't, but that's okay. The key is to keep
trying to get better and healthier, without losing the small pleasures in life
without which, let's be honest, is this even worth it?!

Good luck to everyone on their personal journeys.

~~~
jackhack
>Coca Cola. A liter a day...

I am stunned. 1L of Coca Cola = 840 calories @ 234grams of sugar. That's 18
Tablespoons. Or a bit more than one measuring cup of sugar per day in addition
to whatever else you ate!

1/3 of an adult's typical days caloric needs consumed as pure sugar. Since you
were a child, it's likely you were consuming more than half your daily
calories this way.

~~~
ericmcer
The human body is amazingly adaptive though. My old roommates friend would
come over frequently and every time he would get a cup from the kitchen, fill
it 1/3rd with water, add one of those flavoring crystal packets, and then fill
the rest with vodka out of a plastic bottle. No one else would even be
drinking. He would drink 2-3 of those cups and seem pretty much unfazed, eat
nothing, and go home hours later. I am sure it caught up to him eventually but
at the time it was always flooring that his body had adapted to that kind of
diet.

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AdmiralAsshat
I'm currently two weeks into a no-Coke month (I guess it would be "no soda"
but truly that's the only one I drink). I have a couple reasons for trying it:

\- 1) Coca-Cola is an objectively evil corporation that I would like to
support less.

\- 2) I don't know exactly what's in it, and thanks to the corruption at the
FDA, Coca-Cola doesn't have to tell me. I worry about what other additives
might be lurking about, in addition to the 12 teaspoons of sugar per can.

\- 3) I'd simply like to see if I can.

I'm not sure if I necessarily want to wean myself off it completely so much as
seek out other sources.

One thing I'm investigating at the moment is Open Soda, which was a list of
ingredients for Coke based on a leaked, older version of the recipe. A vendor
in the UK sells a pre-made mixture of the oils, which I have debated ordering
[0]. It would in theory let me make a batch of my own Coke with less sugar or
whatever I feel like using.

Other things I've tried have included just sipping club soda or sparkling
mineral water in its place. If I want a bit of flavor, I mix in a shot of
Balsamic Vinegar. It's surprisingly decent. Remembering that it comes from
fermented grapes (assuming you're getting some decent quality stuff and not
the low-end BV from the grocery store), you get enough sweetness to carry it
through.

[0] [http://cube-cola.org/](http://cube-cola.org/)

~~~
jsl1212
Try adding a few dashes of cocktail bitters to your club soda. It's very
refreshing and also good for an upset stomach.

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esterly
'Redo your pantry' is an important section in the linked article. My wife is
really good about finding pointing out sugar in sauces that seem healthy [1],
tomato sauce, catsup, etc., and finding sure free alternatives

[1] [https://www.prevention.com/food/healthy-eating-
tips/10-hidde...](https://www.prevention.com/food/healthy-eating-
tips/10-hidden-sugar-bombs/slide/5)

~~~
sevensor
I was sad to learn that sauces like ketchup are mostly sugar. Even sriracha is
quite sugary.

~~~
gascan
If it's a popular sauce in America, it's almost sugary as a rule. BBQ sauce,
maple syrup, salad dressing, tomato sauce. Mustard might be the one solid
exception (?)

I don't know if this is because sugary sauces become popular, or because
popular sauces were adulterated with sugar.

~~~
logfromblammo
Mustard, mayonnaise, and chile-vinegar sauces like Tabasco or Frank's RedHot
are the only sugar-free sauces I can think of at the moment.

Most everything else either has sugar or an artificial sweetener in it--or
some back-door sugar, like raisin paste, or fruit juice concentrates.

It is likely because condiments came from preserved foods, and those generally
require a high concentration of sugar or salt, or a low pH, in order to avoid
spoilage. And some are concentrated from foods that are naturally sweet.

I think the sweetness was always valued in a sauce, and substituting the
previous source of the sweetness with corn syrup or HFCS is a more recent
trend, to cut costs. So it's the latter: popular sauces were adulterated with
sugar.

~~~
emmanuel_1234
Heinz mayonnaise, at least where I live (outside of the US) contains an
ungodly amount of sugar, it is the second ingredient, and makes it properly
disgusting.

------
itpragmatik
Also would like to know if the author had any younger kids at home. Being a
parent I find it difficult and almost impossible to deny my kids of sweet
treats few times a week. We end up buying things that kids like but then
temptation is very strong and I end up eating some of those treats as well!

Also I am addicted to fake sugar (Truvia/Stevia etc). I use them almost
everyday. Are they bad than natural sugar or worst or same?

~~~
igravious
My daughter has chocolate in the cupboard from Easter this time last year. She
has a can of soda maybe once a week and does eat not much candy, when she does
it's recognised as a treat and not a part of her normal diet. She does drink
smoothies that I'm sure have a good bit of sugar. I never buy products with
artificial sweeteners if I can help it and I never use fake sugar
(Truvia/Stevia/…) supplements–I'm actually not sure what people put them in,
is it coffee and tea? I prefer regular Coke or Pepsi (for instance) to the
diet alternatives because I can totally taste the artificial sweetener and it
leaves a gross aftertaste in my mouth.

To the people here who have commented that a life without artificial
sweeteners is unimaginable to them I am at a loss for words. I do not know
what to say to you. I'm not saying that I have an iron will or anything–once
you go without for a while you lose the taste for it, it really is that simple
I think.Surely it can't be as difficult to kick as say beer or cigarettes?

~~~
epanchin
Smoothies are horrifically sugary, I was shocked when I found out. A blender
probably isn’t a bad investment... I’m not sure if they come in child safe
flavours, maybe a nutribullet?!

~~~
igravious
I bet they are, I haven't looked too closely at the brands I buy but I'm sure
you're correct. Regarding a blender: Convenience trumps health :(

~~~
iamt2
Be careful with even homemade smoothies. Part of satiety is the speed of
consumption, closely-linked to convenience of imbibing.

In other words, it is easy to drink too much smoothie because drinking is far
easier and faster than preparing and eating raw fruits. Our hormonal systems
are not geared to the speed of eating/drinking that our technological
capabilities deliver. With processed foods it is easy to overrun actual
caloric needs before your hormonal systems realize it has happened, our
satiety mechanisms are fooled, and before you know it, you're way over your
reasonable caloric budget.

If you engage your children in preparing, then eating raw fruit as-is, and
reserve smoothies as a dessert-treat, then that establishes a timeframe their
hormonal systems can easily accommodate. Even the youngest with minimal manual
dexterity can "help" wash and/or dry fruits, and be an assistant by picking up
fruits from the colander and placing on a cutting board for you.

It takes _far_ more time, but personally that is my choice (YMMV), since I
advocate a slow parenting movement similar to the slow food movement, because
when you direct time and attention to a child, they flourish.

------
jk47msp
Its a little scary how easy it is to eat too much sugar.

~~~
cpach
Indeed. When supply is abundant like it is today, coping mechanisms are
essential.

------
notheguyouthink
The article mentions Stevia, but are fake sugars proven to be bad? What about
as bad as Sugar?

I'm curious because that's my wife's lifeblood for a life without sugar.
Without fake sugars.. I don't know what she'd do.

~~~
gjem97
I believe there have been some studies that show that artificial sweeteners
affect your insulin response to real sugar, but I think it's far from settled
science.

~~~
asp_hornet
i believe it was debunked:

[https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-
of-n...](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-
nutrition/article/sweettaste-receptors-lowenergy-sweeteners-glucose-
absorption-and-insulin-release/FD76542E4E27715F92DD2B0BCF31483E)

~~~
cholantesh
But why consult reviews when you can rely on anecdotes?

------
calibas
If you don't think refined sugar is addictive, try not eating it.

~~~
enahs-sf
Quitting sugar addiction was the hardest thing i've ever done. Worse than
alcohol, tobacco and coffee combined IMHO.

------
TACIXAT
I go through full withdrawal cutting out sugar, and it was the only thing that
got me to actually stop going back to it. It took me about 3 times going back
and forth and the last time I decided I really didn't want to go through the
process of getting sick again.

I used to eat a few bowls of ice cream each day. I'd drink tons of root beer
and cream soda. I still miss it every so often, but I know it's the right
choice for me given how my body reacts to it.

I have found that I have no problems with monk fruit. The first time I tried
it, it didn't really taste sweet. There was more just an after taste that I
was unfamiliar with. After having it a few times though, my tongue must have
adapted because it is a sweet flavor to me now. I don't crave it and have no
negative side effects when I stop eating it.

It feels pretty liberating to cut out the stuff that you have cravings for. I
was definitely a slave to caffeine and sugar and I'm glad to be free from
those traps now.

~~~
JAFTEM
I've completely cut out sugar too and it's intriguing how the body responds. I
once accidentally sipped my partner's coffee (filled with sugar) thinking it
was mine and I actually gagged.

------
lev99
I encourage everyone to measure everything they eat for one week. Use an app,
a scale and count the calories, macronutrients and micronutrients. The results
are well worth the trouble of doing it for one week.

I found my sodium and sugar intake were way to high, and foods I thought were
high in protein were often not. Now I read the white label on every food item
I buy at the grocery store. After several years my tastes have changed so that
I no longer enjoy foods that were once my favorite. I'm very glad I did this
experiment at age 20, it probably saved me from obesity and type 2 diabetes.

~~~
121789
I know it would decrease adherence, but I suggest that people do this for 3-6
months. Set a calorie limit based roughly on daily energy expenditure and
track what you eat with an app.

I do not think this is necessary long-term (and it can be harmful if you take
it to the extreme), but it is really helpful to calibrate your perception of
portion sizes and calories relative to what you can eat in a day. You start to
look at things like chipotle burritos and pop-tarts in a much different
manner.

~~~
lev99
I wish I new a better way to market the idea of counting calories,
micronutrients and macronutrients for a short period of time. It's something
that I think everyone should do from time to time, like take a vacation or see
a dentist.

------
jimmar
People eat too many calories. An easy way to cut calories is by reducing the
number of sugary things you eat because they taste so good you want to eat a
lot of them. But nutritionally, as long as you control for calories, a bowl of
ice cream is not terribly different than a grilled cheese sandwich. Yeah, the
ice cream has more sugar, but in your stomach that bread is being broken down
into sugar anyway.

------
JepZ
> The sugar industry and its various offshoots, like the soda industry, have
> spent years trying to trick you.

Two days ago I was wondering, why there is this thing called 'energy' on
nutrition labels. I mean its not 1:1 sugar, but somehow those two seem to have
a positive correlation and while sugar has a bad reputation, energy sounds
very positive. Who doesn't want more energy?

