
When a text can trigger a lynching: WhatsApp and incendiary messages in India - DoreenMichele
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-india-whatsapp-fake-news/when-a-text-can-trigger-a-lynching-whatsapp-struggles-with-incendiary-messages-in-india-idUSKBN1JL0OW
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wtmt
WhatsApp is really a multi-faceted platform in India. It's used by schools to
send instructions to parents, used by parents in group chats, used by college
students to discuss their classes, used for complaints to the authorities in
some cases, used by authorities to broadcast messages to people in some
cases...and it also happens to be _the premier platform_ for spreading hoaxes,
scams, junk forwards and fake news.

I usually tell people not to believe anything that comes on WhatsApp, because
that's how low the general quality of conversation on it happens to be when
it's looked at in totality.

The Indian government has been curbing free speech and attempting to increase
its control on speech over time. People have been wrongly arrested and
punished for liking something on Facebook, forwarding something on WhatsApp
(that those in power don't like), etc. These incidents only serve to add more
fuel to the government and many citizens who actually support higher control
and monitoring of all conversations.

In the last four years of this central government, the rhetoric of "you don't
have to worry if you have nothing to hide" has been doing the rounds among
many citizens who would otherwise not support such measures if some other
parties were in power. It's as if they can't see the issues or don't want to
see the issues.

If not for the Supreme Court, which runs on its own pace and rhythm, India
would've become an authoritarian "democracy". The only hope, IMO, lies with
the judiciary. No political party is different on these lines. Whoever comes
to power wants more control and power.

Without better education and awareness (with even the so called educated
people falling hook, line and sinker to fake news), there's not much hope.
It's worrisome how much ammunition these incidents provide to the government
to curb speech.

P.S.: India has a restricted form of free speech, where vague terms like
public order, affecting the sentiments of others on religious grounds, and
such can be legally used to deny speech and also punish people arbitrarily.

P.P.S: India doesn't yet have a data privacy law either. The very concept of
privacy was laughed at for quite sometime, until August 2017 when a
constitutional bench of the Supreme Court declared that the constitution,
through various articles, does grant privacy as a fundamental right.

~~~
walrus01
> P.S.: India has a restricted form of free speech, where vague terms like
> public order, affecting the sentiments of others on religious grounds, and
> such can be legally used to deny speech and also punish people arbitrarily.

That's putting it mildly.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India)

[https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-
net/2017/india](https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-net/2017/india)

[https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/29/india-shut-off-
internet-...](https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/29/india-shut-off-internet-
maintain-order/)

~~~
strategyanalyst
For a low income developing country, India has relatively higher freedom of
speech that you'd expect.

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794CD01
The headline and article are written as if it's somehow outrageous that a text
could do this, but when an old-school verbal shout can trigger a lynching, if
anything, it would be a letdown if an electronic message couldn't.

~~~
baxtr
Exactly. This has nothing to do with the form of communication. The digital
nature makes it merely public and accessible to a very large audience

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OscarCunningham
New communication methods can be used for the same things as old communication
methods. This is not surprising.

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Karishma1234
As an Indian who runs several political groups this is at best shoddy
reporting by foreign media. Often NGOS in USA use this kind of news reporting
to generate more donations for themselves by showing this poverty porn to
their rich donors.

Lynchings do not get triggered by text. Indian people, even the poorest ones
are not that stupid. Most often it is a case of genuine crime that the
government fails to address. Recently two people of lower castes were badly
beaten up for "using water of higher caste".[1] In reality the owner of the
well was of even lower caste. The boys were swimming and pissing in the only
well the entire region had of drinkable water. After several complains and
requests the owner took matters into his own hands.

For almost every single lynching that media reports as "whatsapp driven", the
further detailed investigations point out either deep personal grudge, network
of crimes such as cow thefts or pure political murder disguised as mob
justice. I have not come across 1 single instance were people just killed
someone for a whatsapp message.

[1] [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
natio...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
nation/2-dalits-caned-paraded-naked-in-maharashtra-for-swimming-in-well-of-
upper-caste-man/articleshow/64595266.cms)

~~~
thewarrior
Whenever any criticism of India turns up online a vocal and combative section
always turns up dismissing all criticism as some bizarre media conspiracy.
Eventually the thread gets flagged and it goes off the front page.

What are you even trying to argue ? That the lynchings might have legitimate
reasons ?

Doesn’t change the fact that they are lynchings.

Many parts of rural India are quite lawless and mob justice is the rule. You
can be killed for the mere suspicion of having killed a cow.

Now fake videos circulating via WhatsApp have worsened the problem.

Even a cursory google search can find evidence of WhatsApp lynchings

[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
india-44435127](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44435127)

~~~
eklavya
A lot of noise/hatred/fear is also generated for all sorts of reasons by
hiding facts and portraying a very particular picture.

But what you are saying is also true. Do you think it's only India/Indians
though?

~~~
thewarrior
I’m Indian myself and I agree it doesn’t feel good to see your country
constantly stereotyped by Westerners.

But we don’t need to be defensive either. India is the largest functioning
democracy on the planet and that’s nothing to sneeze at.

Some international exposure on such problems might atleast convince those in
charge to do a better job keeping things under control.

If India wants to join the league of the US EU etc then we must be prepared to
be judged on those metrics.

China is getting more autocratic by the day and apart from the occasional post
no one is as concerned because it isn’t really expected of them to hold up to
democratic ideals.

~~~
Karishma1234
> If India wants to join the league of the US EU etc then we must be prepared
> to be judged on those metrics.

Sorry. I do not agree at all. You think India can crawl on all 4 and these
countries will give India a seat at the white people's club ? India will not
win by playing into the hands of euro-us centrism. Our problems are ours to
solve and US/UK etc. should butt out.

~~~
thewarrior
Well acknowledging actual issues isn’t crawling on all fours.

This isn’t about a seat at the white peoples club either.

International pressure has achieved many productive outcomes like the ending
of Apartheid for example.

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jeffdavis
Freedom of speech, like all freedoms, requires discipline and comes with
costs. Sometimes those costs are tragically high, but freedom is worth it
because the altenative is even worse.

I wonder why this logic is rarely applied to the second amendment? Guns can be
used for tragic purposes, but also allow vulnerable people to defend
themselves when the police can't or won't. Nobody is really sure whether they
can prevent the next tyranny, but we're pretty sure that tyrants or
slaveowners don't want their subjects armed.

~~~
Semirhage
Speech is an intrinsic quality of people, with purposes as diverse as thought
and central to human expression. Guns are tools to kill something, and while
they can in theory be used to kill or threaten to kill in a myriad of
situations, they are still just killing machines. Most of human history hasn’t
included them, they are not intrinsic abilities of nearly all humans, they’re
not central to the ability to teach, learn, communicate, etc.

That’s not to say guns aren’t important, or rights to guns shouldn’t be
protected. It is saying however that comparing speech and guns makes apples
and oranges comparisons look downright apt.

~~~
jeffdavis
What test are you using to determine which rights are valid and which aren't?

You point out some differences, but who's to say those mean one is a right and
one is not?

You could say something similar about abortion, for instance. Throughout most
of history abortions were not available and certainly not in a safe form. But
now they are recognized as a right.

~~~
Semirhage
I’m not judging the validity of rights, I’m examining the practicality of
embracing those rights up to their logical extremes. I didn’t despute the
right to self defense, I just pointed out that as written by the person I
replied to, it coils just as easily be applied to tanks and rocket launchers.

It’s possible to be far more permissive with freedom of speech than it is with
free access to modern weaponry.

------
notadoc
Another variation of toxic social media, 'fake news', and
misinformation/propaganda, which is ubiquitous online and only growing.

In the current internet environment, it's best to assume everything seen,
found, rumored, or heard online is fake until proven otherwise.

