
Coronavirus Forces World’s Largest Work-from-Home Experiment - adventured
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-02/coronavirus-forces-world-s-largest-work-from-home-experiment
======
est
Some outcomes of this morning:

1\. Alibaba's teamwork app, Dingtalk, crashed around 9AM due to too many
concurrent video conference saturate the server and bandwitdh

2\. Tencent's for enterprise messaging app, Wechat for Business, crashed.
Connection is extremely unstable

3\. Baidu's office VPN was busy and employees are asked to stay disconnected
to leave bandwith for sysadmins

4\. Huawei's WeLink was unavailable for a while

5\. Bytedance (company behind TikTok)'s Lark, an online office suite like
GApps was the biggest winner, only had some minor issues.

6\. Zoom offered a free version to mainland users and it's extremely popular.
But it lacks non-video-conf features. e.g. simple daily poll to see if your
colleagues were healthy or not.

~~~
tmp5774889
I've created a temp account for this to be on the safe side :)

I work for a big (300k+ ) company with some tens of thousand office workers in
CN We are preparing since about 2 weeks to upgrade our remote access infra in
China with partial success as something which would be a soft upgrade
everywhere else needs to go through various levels of local subcontractors and
partners of our provider

On top of that because of the Internet situation in CN it is not practically
easy to use remote access via another location with higher capacity - the
performance gets degraded very quickly - or use resources directly over the
internet eg. RTC which is not hosted locally

I doubt that local authorities will change something in the future because of
this example but one can only hope

~~~
est
are you the same guy on r/sysadmin?

Try use MPLS. It's expensive but the latency and bandwidth is guaranteed.

~~~
tmp5774889
nope, not the same guy MPLS is used for the office network anyhow, talking
about remote access here

------
obiefernandez
My wife is a high-school teacher in Shenzhen and her school has suspended
physical attendance thru Feb 17th, possibly to be extended until the start of
March. However, they are requiring teachers and students to work full-time
from home using online assignments and communications channels. It struck me
that this is indeed a huge experiment in remote working, even for professions
that don't typically have that option at all whatsoever (i.e. school
teachers).

~~~
Obsnold
I've heard from relatives that it is the same thing in Hong Kong. Last time I
talked to them they said it has been quite difficult so far. I'm not sure if
they have had any training to prepare for this at all or if they are just
winging it.

~~~
thedufer
Hong Kong has gone further - schools are closed until at least the first week
of March.

------
hkai
I am currently soft-quarantined by my employer in Hong Kong because I recently
visited Mainland China, and will be working from home for 14 days, along with
many others.

It's not going that well: from my subjective point of view, people seem to
treat it as an extra vacation. They are often not online and will only
complete a few small tasks per day, because there is no threat from the boss
who sees that you are browsing facebook instead of working.

Even government employees are at home. Many people didn't get their tax bill
so they don't need to pay tax for now. Sweet!

That experiment makes me think that perhaps work from home is optimal mostly
for a small pool of highly motivated and talented individuals, such as the
average person on HN who actually does feel more productive working from home.
Outside of HN, work ethic could be different.

~~~
runawaybottle
There is one major requirement for remote work, it’s called deadlines. Give
people a paycheck, some requirements, and deadlines and I promise you the work
will find a way to get done. They can browse Facebook all they want.

~~~
Razengan
What about work that does not have deadlines, but requires constant attention?
Like monitoring security cameras, or the status of a medical patient or a
nuclear power plant..

These types of work have the added risk of unauthorized people, such as the
employee’s kids or friends, snooping in on sensitive information.

That might be helped by the employer providing a dedicated computer for remote
work, with screen-recording and facial recognition that locks the system if
you’re not (the only person) in view.

Perhaps having always-on video and voice surveillance on that computer, and
announcing that fact, would force employees to create a dedicated distraction-
free work environment in their homes.

~~~
Traster
You do the same thing that you do in the real world. Have you ever noticed how
sometimes security guards will walk around with a little key fob and touch it
to a point on the wall? That's because in order to ensure they're doing their
required patrols they physically have to log they've been to a point.

If you're requiring someone pay attention to a monitor you can do the same
thing - for example put a square on the image and require the employee to
click it. Obviously though, this requires someone to actually critically think
about protocols for ensuring work is done to a standard.

~~~
sbr464
One of the more interesting examples of this is the NYC subway operators
pointing at signs to show attention:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jIsxQNz0M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9jIsxQNz0M)

~~~
Razengan
Reminds me of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14011793](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14011793)

“Why Japan’s Rail Workers Can’t Stop Pointing at Things”

------
goda90
My employer, after some bad winter weather the last couple of years, has been
hemming and hawing about a work from home policy. There's definitely a
pervasive mindset that people are less productive at home which might have
some truth for some roles at our company. At first it was a "use your
judgement and talk to your team leader, but if your kids have off school, just
take a sick day", then they started being more explicit about acceptable
reasons. Then a few months ago they added a three day limit per year. But last
month they removed the limit again and on our local social media there has
been speculating/joking that it's prep for coronavirus.

~~~
hkai
Same here, we tried allowing work from home once a week but people just
treated it as a free day off.

We also had to enforce starting hours, otherwise some developers would show up
by 11:30 yet they will still leave work sharp on time.

~~~
vidarh
If people treat it as a free day off, then it sounds like the problem is not
allowing working from home but a lack of effective performance management, or
problems like that would quickly stop when.

~~~
michaelt
Imagine I'm a manager with a light-touch approach to performance management, a
team that spends 99% of their time in the office, and a team member who is
perfectly productive while in the office but unproductive when working from
home.

Should I switch to high-touch performance management all the time for all
employees, just because of the 1% of one person's time spent working from
home?

~~~
jon-wood
You should deal with the problem of the single person, in the same way you'd
deal with someone who consistently delivers bad code, or someone who turns up
to the office and smokes crack in the bathrooms.

I'm a strong proponent of allowing people to work from home, but I have also
had conversations with people in the past about whether its appropriate for
them. Ultimately it needs to come down to the question of whether people are
getting the work they need to be doing done, and if not whether that's for
reasons outside of their control. If people are delivering what they need to
be delivering (whether that's in the way you'd typically expect or not), there
isn't a problem. If they aren't delivering, that's the problem to solve, not
the nuances of a work from home policy.

~~~
michaelt
_> You should deal with the problem of the single person, in the same way
you'd deal with someone who consistently delivers bad code, or someone who
turns up to the office and smokes crack in the bathrooms._

You think if someone is a good employee 99% of the time I should fire them on
the spot?

~~~
jon-wood
If it truly is a case of them being a good employee 99% of the time I'd
honestly take the 1% hit in exchange for a happy employee. I'm definitely not
suggesting just firing them, I'm suggesting acting in proportion to the
problem, but focusing on the problem being them not delivering as well as they
could be, rather than the problem being specifically that they're working from
home.

------
jsharf
This is a horrible "experiment".

Duuuude I was just asked to stay at home for 2 weeks because I might have
coronavirus (I was in Shanghai "recently"). Sure as heck I'm not going to be
productive. (I'm a software engineer in mountain view, and my company has
asked me to WFH for 2 weeks)

Following reasons:

\- Emotionally it's a tiny bit scary. hard to focus.

\- I didn't have ANY time to setup -- a lot of my gear is still at work.

\- My team didn't have time to prepare -- we still have daily standups which
are hard to join from VC.

~~~
ybalkind
In a way that makes the experiment more interesting. You're kind of forced to
try make things work under very sub-optimal conditions rather than some
artifical text-book version of what we think work-from-home should ideally
look like. I reckon that after a few days of poor productivity, you and your
colleagues will find ways to be productive despite of these circumstances, and
in fact the difficult circumstances might even yield new and better processes
and habits.

~~~
michaelt
Depends how big the changes are. If you need to replace a whiteboard for task
tracking with Jira, move your standups to a meeting room, and sort out the
meeting room microphones that mean you can't always hear everyone well, the
person might be back at work before you've finished all the reforms :)

~~~
clarry
> move your standups to a meeting room

Please don't do that. People should participate using their own PC (or phone,
in a pinch). Meeting rooms make it worse for everyone.

------
runawaybottle
What’s stopping it from being a no brainer at this point? This feels like one
of those things where old school taxi companies just couldn’t see how fast
stuff like Uber/Lyft was going devour them.

Remote work and distributed teams is basically like fate at this point. If our
economy is prepared to build a whole car in different parts of the world and
then ship it to the US, you better believe your little job tasks that can
easily be sent in email is going to have to reckon with that.

~~~
sytelus
I've gotten into remote work experiments (unplanned) and it hadn't been all
rosy. The good things are huge cut on unnecessary meetings and great
productivity but the bad things include much harder path to collaborate.

For example, if you are designing a very complex system requiring multiple
participants then it's very very hard to communicate your ideas over video
conferences - even when tech worked flawlessly. It's not because people are
not able to articulate the ideas but there is a lot goes on in body language,
facial expressions and quick back-and-forth exchanges over whiteboard. The
high bandwidth of occupying same physical 3D space permits speedy iterations
while low bandwidth constraints what you must express in given slot you are
expected to express.

So, remote work doesn't work for all scenarios. It works well when everyone
knows things fair bit, number of iterations during communications needed are
small and number of ideas don't need huge bandwidth. It doesn't work as well
otherwise. For example, early days of startup where the product is in
embryonic state, everybody working remotely would not work out well. However,
if product is mature and roadmap is well under control then remote team might
work great.

~~~
mhandley
Don't forget we've spent a lifetime learning and perfecting the use of things
like body language in face-to-face meetings. You can't just switch to video
conferences and expect it to be flawless without practice. But if you do it a
lot, you learn when you need to verbalize things you'd rely on conveying non-
verbally in a face-to-face meeting, such as when you don't quite understand
something.

I supervised an entire PhD remotely many years back. We made it work, and
learned as we went. Over time we got better as expressing confusion, double
checking understanding, and all those sort of things where we use non-verbal
clues in face-to-face meetings. It worked, but it wasn't an easy path at
first. But there was an unexpected plus side - I'd learned to vocalize my
doubts and confusion better, and to double-check we're on the same page. And
so ever since I've found I'm more effective in face-to-face meetings.

~~~
benhurmarcel
> But there was an unexpected plus side - I'd learned to vocalize my doubts
> and confusion better, and to double-check we're on the same page.

That's funny but it reminds me of my relationship in the beginning. We didn't
speak each other's native language fluently. Unexpectedly, harder
communication had the effect of being clearer when expressing ourselves, and
double-checking assumptions before reacting. It ended up very healthy.

------
hef19898
And once everything that _doesn 't_ require a physical presence (factory,
warehouse jobs and so forth) worked just fine during all of this managers in
more traditional companies all over the world are _still_ going to find
excuses why work from home is impossible for them. Because most of these guys
just want to be able to control their employees.

~~~
runawaybottle
They will until they don’t, right? These are the same people that will
outsource entire teams offshore to complete things when it’s cheaper. There’s
a lot of talk about worker productivity in this thread, but I promise you in
several years when these companies are able to simply hire cheaper labor
outside of tech centers, you won’t hear shit about remote work being
unproductive lol.

~~~
charwalker
If the productivity drop is less than the cost decrease and quality
level/delivery dates are still met, definitely. I'd love my employer to pay my
internet bill and let me work from home more often.

I'd need my employer to cover the bill because I'd need to bypass my IPS's 1tb
cap and bump my upload speeds a bit to keep things working well. I do a lot of
data transfers and archive management.

------
asiachick
I expect a huge rise in depression the more people work at home. Some people
are fairly isolated and get a needed portion of their interaction quota from
work. Without something to fill the defecit they will struggle

~~~
yodsanklai
Yes, working from home has some drawbacks. That, and also some guilt over the
fact that your employer is doing you a favour. I work from home and tend to
worry that colleagues think I'm slacking. I don't think they do but it put
some extra pressure.

------
suedpfalz
I am quarantined in a german military base after flying out of Wuhan with a
german air force evacuation flight. We have wifi on the base, the backbone is
struggling though - 120 bored people I guess...

~~~
kiney
according to media reports at least two of the 120 people were infected. Were
they diagnosed before or after the flight? were they isolated?

~~~
suedpfalz
we were only checked for symptoms before the flight. Nobody with symptoms was
allowed to board (I think everybody boarded though). After arrival everybody
went to a medical check and they took a saliva sample that was sent to a lab.
So those confirmed cases went to the quarantine quarters first and only got
taken out and brought to the hospital the morning after.

~~~
edna314
Did you notice when the flight was rerouted to Helsinki? How is living in
quarantine? Which people do you meet during the day? Is it clear when you are
able to leave (is it the standard 14-Day policy after you landed in Germany)?

~~~
suedpfalz
Actually they already new just before the departure from Wuhan that we were
going to Helsinki.

Living in quarantine is ok so far. I am in a room with my wife and we are
urged to keep contact with other people as small as possible. But in principle
you can talk to others.

It is assumed that we can leave after 14 days, but in case there is a new
positive case within the group they might to decide to reset the timer.

------
wyxuan
I know a person on mainland China and they are bored out of their mind. They
are a pilot and have nothing to do, especially since the volume of flights has
dropped significantly

~~~
Drakar1903
Well, that's one job that's tough to do remote, isn't it?

~~~
ulucs
Hey, drone technology has gotten a lot better

~~~
xkcd-sucks
I like my drivers and pilots to have skin in the game, as it were

------
flarg
It would be interesting to find out what motivates people when they are the in
the office? There was a fad for presence and virtual office type systems in
the past and I have heard that some media companies have a permanent group
video conference. For me it's just being around people who are busy at their
desks that motivates me.

------
jdpigeon
This is awesome. Looking forward to the economics research papers on this in a
few months

~~~
kart23
This is absolutely NOT a good thing. Or 'awesome'. You cant teach a class full
of elementary schoolers 'from home'. You cannot manufacture electronics 'from
home'. This is going to have lasting, major effects on the worlds economy. I'm
personally selling all my index fund stock tomorrow morning.

~~~
zeveb
> You cant teach a class full of elementary schoolers 'from home.'

Why not? Kids seem perfectly willing to sit in front of screens — they would
probably be perfectly willing to sit in front of screens on a group chat,
learning from a teacher and interacting with their friends.

> You cannot manufacture electronics 'from home.'

A robot factory can! Granted, that switch won't be so great for the human
workers who used to do that job.

~~~
kart23
Kids have short attention spans, if you put them in front of a computer, why
the heck would they pay attention to boring class stuff, instead of play a
game or watch youtube? Learning hands on is essential when you are young.
Homeschooling is fine, but remote learning is just not practical.

------
pts_
Team building, wining and dining are resource intensive activities as it is,
and we would do well to adopt WFH more to save the environment too. Replace
Coronavirus threat with the threat of environmental destruction and you get
similar solutions.

------
darepublic
Does the threat of coronavirus really justify all this media coverage and
fear?

~~~
3pt14159
Don't think about it as _the_ coronavirus. Think of it as _a new virus_ and
things start to make more sense. Over the next 100 years _a new virus_ is
likely going to develop that spreads quickly and is lethal. When a new one
comes up it's hard to tell initial how it spreads, how fast it spreads, and
how lethal it is. For now, I think it's unlikely that the coronavirus will
kill all that many people. For now, I think more people should just get the
flu shot and not worry about coronavirus. But I'll update my opinion if the
spread and death toll seem to worsen.

As an aside, stopping pandemics is on of the main things that Bill Gates is
passionate about.

[https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Shattuck-
Lecture](https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/Shattuck-Lecture)

~~~
infinite8s
High lethality and high virulence are opposed to each other. Most of the
people who have died from coronavirus have been older people with weaker
immune systems.

------
syntaxing
As a MechE, I'm always super jealous of my Software Engineer counterparts in
terms of work from home. I know a bunch of teams are actually heavily
recommended to work from home at least once a week.

~~~
exdsq
Grass is always greener. As a software engineer who works 100% remotely, I’m
always jealous of engineering roles that involve hardware.

~~~
rosybox
I'm also a SWE who mostly works remote. I get tired of being in my house.
Sometimes it feels like I'm trapped. I don't have a car so I don't really get
out much or go far or travel much.

~~~
exdsq
I've found a few things have helped me with this issue:

\- I bought a Fitbit and aim for 10k+ steps a day

\- I rarely make coffee at home in the mornings, instead going to a local
coffee shop to purchase one

\- I try to go out for lunch every other day (normally just somewhere quick
and cheap)

\- I meet a friend for dinner, go to a meetup, or just go to the pub 1 or 2
nights a week

\- Play a sport (I play Squash) which gets you out of the house and exercising

These have helped me a lot although I do still fall into bad habits. In 2017 I
worked from home for 6 months and almost exclusively ate takeaway, played
video games in the evening, and rarely went outside during the working week.
My mental health really suffered during that time and it took a while to get
back out of it!

------
Animats
Somebody has to actually make physical stuff. At least food, water, and
utilities. More if this goes on.

~~~
DoctorOetker
food, utilities can be sterilized with gamma radiation, water with UV
radiation. I am thinking of making a battery backpack for UV LED sterilization
of air, so that it is durable and reusable, as mask production is not keeping
up with demand, and they are roughly single-use items...

------
trhway
while in Silicon Valley we'll be coming into our modern freshly remodeled no
expense spared creativity and collaboration inducing open floors with energy
efficient weak AC&ventilation and waiting until somebody brings it in ...

------
namelosw
Beijing authorities require companies to extends for a week unless the company
is either critical industries or can fully work-from-home. My company started
to fully work-from-home from today, for at least 2 weeks.

This experiment is massive, industries usually move forward only when it's
mandatory. I believe this is a great chance that would make people see a lot
of professions could be handled quite well remotely, and face-to-face is not
that mandatory.

Also, some off-topic info/experiences in case anyone wonders - yesterday I was
back from San Francisco to Beijing, here's what I saw:

1\. Almost every Chinese I saw during the trip wares a mask. In SFO airport,
during the flight, Beijing airport, and on the street. Not many people wear
gloves. One guy even wears goggles. I wore an N95 mask and vinyl gloves
(couldn't find surgical gloves, and masks are sold out for a lot of
pharmacies) for the whole trip (like 15 hours), not the most pleasant
experience but acceptable.

2\. I filled in two additional forms on the flight which asked if I have been
to Hubei (the province which Wuhan located in). One from the custom authority
and one from Beijing authority, but the forms are almost identical.

3\. When I tried to take a lift, I found Didi (Uber/Lyft counterpart) requires
every driver and passenger to wear a mask or everyone has the right to reject
and report others if they don't. I guess would I have to take the metro if I
didn't buy a mask in the US, but I'm also not sure if the metro staff would
let me in if that was the case. Simply put, there are tons of public places
that reject people that don't wear masks, it seems to be a very hard time for
people who are unfortunately couldn't buy/afford overpriced masks.

4\. There are people on the street, but very few. It was the last day of the
holiday, in prior years it should be crowded already because people migrate
back from every province to Beijing.

5\. When I back to my apartment, I found almost every apartment would have
security guards stop visitors from entering the apartment, for those who live
here requires to show a paper from the apartment to enter freely. Rumor says
there are even apartments lockdown themselves that people cannot go out, I'm
not sure if it's true.

6\. Although Beijing is always easy to buy everything online, food delivery
choices only have very few options left for now. Not sure if it would back to
normal after the holiday ends. Other than food and medical supplies, things
haven't changed much. And also delivery guys cannot enter the apartment, so
people have to go outside the apartment to get the delivery.

7\. For the rest of the week, I'm going to live on instant noodles and some
simple foods. Wish me good luck =)

~~~
mensetmanusman
Thanks for sharing, good luck.

What are cultural outlets that the Chinese use to deal with this type of
suffering/anxiety/sadness?

~~~
namelosw
There aren't many. Traditionally, Chinese people would rather endure. There
are a lot of families play mahjong all day long, but it's unfortunate for
those who don't have 4 players in the family - most of the public places to
play mahjong have been shutdown.

For young people, their interests are more westernized, varies from person to
person so that depends. It's more introverted people favored when people
cannot go outside.

Luckily, the Internet plays a centric role in people's daily life, at least in
cities and towns.

For the countryside, villages lockdown themselves by rejecting strangers and
far relatives, but villagers can still move around.

------
ryanmercer
Meanwhile in the United States I continue to have to share a desk with someone
from another shift, all of us do, and as I was typing this I heard 2 different
people sneeze, one immediately in front of me that turned in my direction and
sneezed towards the floor without covering. Which he's done several times a
day for a week.

Fun fun fun.

Stocked up on several containers of wipes and several things of hand sanitizer
this weekend. Normally not my thing but the office has already had a stomach
bug and a flu blaze through the bulk of 180~ people this year, I'll spend some
money for peace of mind while this Coronavirus is doing its thing.

------
pokr
Eh, my father is a vice-manager of a company's information department. Damn
he's been struggling with getting hundreds of people to work remotely for more
than 2 weeks. I'm not familiar with those stuff but sounds like he's trying to
build a solution with MS RDP and/or Citrix's tech. He's been on his phone for
hours and hours these days... Ruined our Chinese New Year if you'd ask me.

------
notacoward
Maybe those who WFH during this situation will develop some empathy for full-
time remote workers ... because for damn sure most of them have none. There
are some issues that are obvious and easily addressed, like leaving
stakeholders out of a meeting entirely ("couldn't find a room on short
notice"). There are others that are hard to notice unless you're subject to
them all the time.

* A VPN that's OK for short-term use, but unreliable enough to cause multiple flow disruptions every single day.

* Extremely slow (and often more contentious) document/code reviews because people aren't as comfortable with written communication as ftf.

* Losing every commit race because of the above, and having to spend more time than anyone else handling tricky merges.

* Being in effective listen-only mode in meetings because of constant interruption and side chatter (or not even able to hear if half the participants are loudly eating lunch the entire time).

* IDEs that lose their ability to navigate code because the connection to the cross-referencing engine can't survive high latency. (BTW this is related to having a giant monorepo, which is itself a bit of a remote-hostile choice.)

There are many more. Working from home has its advantages, but doing so in an
office-first environment can be frustrating too. Maybe those who experience
some of that frustration for a few days will at least stop criticizing others
for things that aren't their fault.

~~~
koheripbal
I think it's going to have the opposite effect.

Because everyone isn't unaccustomed to working from home - they are going to
be tremendously inefficient, and will later assume that all those WFH
employees are also therefor chronically inefficient.

------
ngcc_hk
You may wonder why but some School in a sense no choice. The university
worldwide needed an exam result and that is a strange thing now the exam will
be done in March. In Hong Kong basically the turmoil meant it would be very
bad for the result for the young kids.

But not all needed. Take a rest and stay healthy more important.

------
Obsnold
I'm planning on moving back to HK this May so I hope this has all blown over
by then. I just heard my boss managed to get back to HK a day before they
stopped people leaving the village he was in. Now he has to work from home for
2 weeks before he's allowed back to the office.

------
BossingAround
A shameless self-plug on my thoughts on working from home -

[https://medium.com/@bossingaround/working-from-home-is-
great...](https://medium.com/@bossingaround/working-from-home-is-great-and-i-
hate-it-e2660acac260)

------
kylestlb
I wonder how many people are using coronavirus as a convenient excuse to stay
home to nurse their superbowl hangover. :D

------
c0restraint
Experiments are only as good as their preparation and setting, and so this
would struggle to be a good experiment.

------
yalogin
How are exports from china impacted by this?

For example most products on Amazon are coming from China. How is it not
impacted?

~~~
MiracleUser
Wuhan is a commercial center, not an industrial one. It also is not a major
port.

------
mrfusion
I guess companies will update their sick leave policies too. Could be
interesting.

------
chriselles
I wonder if ZOOM and peers may be an investment hedge against a wider
outbreak?

~~~
buboard
flu seasons are the worst, everywhere. we should either move a do-nothing
holiday to overlap with flu season, or make it 'worldwide work from home
weeks'

~~~
chriselles
What I’d like to see is the removal of terrorism alerts

And replace them with a flu & pandemic risk scoring matrix.

As the risk score increases, recommended behaviours are emphasised.

Not too indifferent from news including pollen and UV risk as well as traffic
congestion.

Just add public health alerts and get rid of terror alerts.

Keep the alerts and recommended behaviours clear, repetitive, simple, and
timely.

------
SimonB_
Coronavirus is far more infectious than sars. Numbers infected are likely 100k
or more. This will become a pandemic. I can’t see how they can contain this.
What we don’t know yet, is the mortality rate. Yes, we know the Chinese are
hiding the deaths.

------
aaron695
Whole universities are setting up their equipment properly from remote study
and forcing lecturers to learn how to use it.

Which is also interesting.

Working from home is incredibly bad for your mental health of course. Same as
studying one assumes.

~~~
kabacha
> Working from home is incredibly bad for your mental health of course.

Why _of course_? Do you have any evidence to support that? I'm sure both
remote and office methodologies have their negatives on mental health.

~~~
aaron695
> both remote

Not discussing remote. As per article co-hosts are in danger of closing.

I see working from home being different from Hikikomori, but I think it has
the same issues.

~~~
pkalinowski
Working from home is good for my mental health. I don't like the office, of
course.

