
AT&T Will Force Your Data Plan For Your Unlocked Out-of-Contract "Smart" Phone - joelrunyon
http://clickboom.me/att-will-not-let-you-not-have-a-data-plan-wit
======
kevingadd
AT&T are scum and this sort of stuff is standard practice with them. You
shouldn't be giving them your money if you can avoid it.

If you've got a GSM phone with the right radio bands, I suggest taking a look
at the $30 plans here: <http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/monthly-4g-plans>

For CDMA I believe Sprint and Verizon offer prepaid plans without contracts at
around $50 for talk/data.

The key is that IMO, a prepaid plan makes the terms of the arrangement clear,
and if the carrier decides to try and overstep their boundaries, you can cut
them off. They don't have the ability to take you to collections or withdraw
from your account or increase your bill behind your back.

Of course, if T-Mobile tries to screw with you as a prepaid customer, they've
got some leverage since your only alternative is AT&T. Not so great. Still,
better than nothing...

~~~
ewillbefull
> If you've got a GSM phone with the right radio bands, I suggest taking a
> look at the $30 plans here: <http://prepaid-
> phones.t-mobile.com/monthly-4g-plans>

Keep in mind the top $30 plan (unlimited data) requires you to activate a new
phone that you have to buy from Walmart.

~~~
benmccann
It does not require a phone from WalMart. I ordered a new SIM card from
t-mobile.com and activated it with the $30 plan. However, you cannot get it in
T-Mobile stores.

~~~
Chico75
I tried to do the same, but I can't activate the plan because my sim card is
not activated. If I go into a store, they can't activate the Walmart Plan. How
did you do it?

~~~
illuminate
"I can't activate the plan because my sim card is not activated"

When you order the sim from T-mobile directly, you can activate it. You can
purchase it online from them for 99 cents.

------
yellowbkpk
This started happening about 1.5 years ago on AT&T. Any smart phone that AT&T
"knows about" will get a ~$30/mo smartphone data plan added the moment you
insert your SIM card into it. You'll get a text message ~30 minutes later
saying so.

You can get around this by using a phone that hasn't previously been on AT&T's
network. For example, I have a Galaxy Nexus, iPhone 2G, and Nexus One that
have all gotten past this check and I've kept my $10/mo data plan. My iPhone
3G, 4 and Atrix 4G were all previously locked to AT&T and so have caused this
message previously.

Once you do this you can put your SIM card back in a "dumb phone" and ~24
hours later you should be able to remove the smart phone data plan from your
account via the AT&T web interface.

~~~
luser001
[http://venturebeat.com/2010/12/21/fcc-net-neutrality-is-a-
go...](http://venturebeat.com/2010/12/21/fcc-net-neutrality-is-a-go/)

I wonder if this is legal because of the net neutrality ruling on mobile
networks that the FCC put out a couple of years ago.

------
josephby
I've never heard of this before, but it's absolute crap. I'd take five minutes
and fill out the the FCC complaint form at <http://www.fcc.gov/complaints>
(choose Wireless Telephone > Billing, Service, Privacy ... > Online Form).
Send them back a letter with the bill (including the reference number that the
FCC gave you). The correspondence will be handy if they ever try to cut you
off or send you to collections.

It's amazing how Slamming (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_slamming>)
refuses to die.

------
aaronpk
It's not "for all intensive purposes", it's "for all intents and purposes"

<http://grammarist.com/eggcorns/for-all-intensive-purposes/>

~~~
paulhauggis
The article you stated states that "for all intensive purposes" is common
usage, although not correct. At some point, it becomes accepted usage.

Kind of like when you try to say that hackers only tinker with things. Words
and meanings change.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Hackers generally aren't in the business of turning meaning into gibberish,
which is what these 'eggcorns' are.

Imho, it's worth resisting nonsensical cargo-cult language, even if only as a
matter of principle.

------
acak
I've had this happen to me. I agree it's presumptuous and toeing the line but
just so you know I've always been able call them and have the data plan turned
off for good on that line.

One of the arguments I make with them is that if I have kids on my family plan
who go off to school and pop their feature phone SIM card into their friends
smartphone, I can't be expected to deal with that headache - and if AT&T isn't
going to recognize that the person who pays the bill should have the final say
in the matter, and they don't offer basic parental controls, I'll take my
business elsewhere.

It's worked at least three times on three different lines off the top of my
head.

~~~
joelrunyon
I spent about 60 minutes on the phone with them today and they didn't back
down (they'll take it off if I use a dumb phone, but they'll still charge me
for this month).

I'll try your line of thought. Thanks.

~~~
Harkins
Chargeback. Your credit card company takes a dim view of people who try to
bill you for things you haven't ordered.

~~~
chris_wot
Be careful about that. If you chargeback and the large company fights back,
you could be in a world of pain with the phone company AND the credit card
company!

------
cj
Pro tip: If you legitimately fail at reasonably resolving an issue like the
OP, try filing a Better Business Bureau complaint. You'd be surprised. I filed
one against Verizon last month and got a call a week later from their
"executive team" offering me exactly what their support agents said was
"impossible, against policy and regulation". Got a $550 account credit :)

------
trotsky
A little known aspect of the tough as nails deal that apple cut with at&t for
a lengthy US exclusive deal was that that apple got a not insubstantial piece
of every iphone subscriber's service fee from at&t. Not far below
$10/mo/subscriber when the iphone first rolled out as I understand it. This is
why AT&T has had a variety of fee recouping schemes on the iphone over the
years. This is where all the verizon iphone rumors came from every year after
the first year or two - the deal got renegotiated yearly after the first two
and both parties were playing big time hardball, though I am under the
impression the subsidy amount dropped dramatically by the end. I think they
still have some obligations to pay on some subscribers that predate the loss
of exclusivity.

~~~
lgg
Another part of that deal was that the phones were unsubsidized, and the data
plan was a lot cheaper than AT&T's other data plans ($20 for unlimited,
everything else was $30 at the time). I am pretty sure that Apple sacrificed
all of the monthly revenue from AT&T when they moved to the more conventional
US subsidy model with the iPhone 3G.

------
MichaelGG
It's not clear if he's referring to a prepaid plan here. Prepaid definitely is
the safest bet - essentially no surprises, and little ability for them to rip
you off. I use prepaid AT&T (T-Mobile seems to have less coverage where I go)
when I'm in the States, and the data is optional.

On prepaid it used to be that the available/required plans depended on the
IMEI used to activate the SIM. So if you bring a crapphone and activate then
switch the SIM into your iPhone you should be set and not need an upgrade. Not
sure if that's still the case and they only periodically audit or what.

~~~
amartya916
I use the AT&T prepaid service as well (GoPhone) on a factory unlocked
smartphone; I don't use the data, but have the ability to turn it on if I need
to.

As it turns out, one can just get a GoPhone sim at an AT&T store and get it
activated then and there (no need to take a dumbphone or your smartphone there
at all). The sim costs 99 cents. I have been using this sim for the past 6
months.

~~~
fpgeek
The last time I checked, you couldn't use a GoPhone SIM in an iPhone, period
(though this could have easily changed, especially now that T-Mobile is deep
into their refarm). Easily the #1 complaint of international iPhone users
visiting the US.

~~~
MichaelGG
Correct. Some of the bundled packages have SIMs on plans that are IMEI locked
and you can't pop them into better phones and have them work. A friend and I
got burned on that.

------
lucb1e
That's why I got prepaid. 10 euros a month off it for 250MB internet, 2-3
euros for calling and texting. Cheaper than any plan, even plans without
calling and texting.

 _Oh no, prepaid is always more expensive!_ they tell me in the shop. They
then walk straight over to their computers to show me, and they show me
something slightly more expensive. What a joke, these subscriptions. Right now
all my carrier has on me is my rough location (must be kept by Dutch law),
call history, and phone number. Good luck billing me for using a Galaxy Note
II.

~~~
Zak
_my rough location (must be kept by Dutch law)_

That's creepy, and would make me not want to carry a phone at all.

~~~
KMag
Where do you live that carriers don't keep a history of where your phone has
been?

Every once in a while I read a news story where a suspect's cell phone was
connected to the nearest tower to a dumped body, around the time the coroner
thought the body was dumped.

~~~
Zak
I live in the US, and I'd be surprised if the carriers don't keep such data
for a while. That's bad on its own. The part that's extra disturbing is that
your government would _require_ it.

------
jacalata
This has been happening for at least several years now. I haven't tried it
myself (I want a dataplan), but I hear that one way to avoid this is to have a
smartphone that they don't sell, because they identify it by matching the
device id to their database of smartphone ids, which is only populated with
devices they sell? I'd be interested in hearing if this is true or not.

~~~
agwa
AT&T doesn't consider my Nokia N900 a smart phone. I'm pretty certain AT&T
never sold the N900, so this could support your theory.

------
deepdog

        <a href="http://Impossible HQ" class="network_link">
            Part of the <span>Impossible HQ</span> network.
        </a>
    

Nice...

------
stox
This is the same company that claims that how they measure your usage to
determine DSL data caps is Proprietary. I think the time to put them under
full regulation has come again.

------
ncallaway
I'm using T-Mobile in much the manner the author describes and not having any
problems. This is exactly the kind of reason why their attempt to buy T-Mobile
failed.

------
bconway
This is not an issue with prepaid plans, either carrier or MVNOs (Straight
Talk, Net10, etc). You pay in advance for the features you want (data or not,
etc), and that's what you get. No surprises, no automatically signing you up
for anything, and no contracts.

We've been using these on our Galaxy Nexus and other unlocked Android and
iPhone devices for a couple years now with great success.

------
henryw
Straight Talk is a great alternative. They use AT&T towers and only charge
$45/month for unlimited call/text/data. Works on my iPhone.

~~~
__david__
Do you get visual voicemail with that plan?

~~~
henryw
No unfortunately.

~~~
__david__
That's too bad. As silly as it sounds, dial in voicemail is one of those
things I don't think I'd ever willingly go back to.

------
rabble
I've got a xiaomi M1 which i picked up in China, it's only sold in mainland
china and i've never had any problem telling AT&T that it's a dumb phone. No
messages or anything. Maybe it's just an obscure enough phone. Miui is a
pretty well maintained distribution of android.

~~~
mzr
I think AT&T has a database of IMEIs of known US smartphones. You used to be
able to get around the scans with an imported Nokia, for example. I used to
have a Nokia X6 that never got picked up for the two years I used it.

------
bwlang
Yeah they did the same thing to me. That was the last straw for me after 12
years with ATT/Cingular/whatever it was before that. I switched to T-mobile,
even though it was a bit of a hassle to unlock my phone and their coverage is
not as good in my area.

------
Yxven
I just went through this. Verizon also will not let you have a smart phone
without a data plan.

My search for phone service without a dataplan lead me to h20wireless prepaid.
I expect my yearly phone bill to be $100 now. (I rarely call or text anyone)

------
learc83
I've been using republic wireless for about a year now. $19 a month for
unlimited everything.

For people who don't know, it's a hyrbid wifi phone that also allows for
unlimited 3g, talk and texts on sprint's network when you're not near wifi.

~~~
tramster
Wow, just looking over it, that looks great!

How long has it been around for? I've never heard anything about it.

~~~
learc83
Right around a year (I got into the first beta slot). They are part of
bandwidth.com, who does the backend voip infrastructure for lots of other big
companies.

------
gravedave
Regarding getting a working "dumb" phone, you should get an import if you
don't find them in the US. You said you travel a lot, right? There are low-end
phone models made for developing countries and such. Nokia has lots of 1xxx
series phones that only offer the very basics. Here in the UK, I had no
trouble finding a refurbished Nokia 1100 for 17 pounds on Amazon, while used
ones go for 11. Apparently, this particular model has been discontinued, but
wikipedia has a whole list of all Nokia models, some still in production. And
if you still want colour screens, there's the 2xxx series.

------
arikrak
This has been AT&T's practice for a while. The big carriers want to make huge
monthly fees by charging people for the privilege to use a smartphone on their
network.

You have a few alternatives: Get a GSM phone that AT&T can't recognize, i.e.
one that wasn't made for AT&T. Alternatively you could switch to one of the
prepaid carriers that allow smartphones at no extra fee. These options may not
last forever though.

(I discuss a couple of prepaid options here:
<http://www.zappable.com/2012/07/smartphones-for-cheap-ii/> )

------
shmerl
AT&T are one of the worst mobile companies in US. Avoid them as a plague.

------
Breefield
This happened to me 3 days ago—I got a friend's old iPhone 3GS a few months
back and hadn't had data. It was great, but now AT&T decided I need data and
gave me the $30 plan rather than the base $20.

------
charlieflowers
If the American people had any sense at all, we would drive AT&T out of
business tomorrow. This story is no exception -- they _live_ to do this kind
of crap.

They boss the consumer around, but it is the consumer who truly holds all the
power. Luckily for them, we consumers have been lulled into inattention, and
somehow we put up with this crap.

Edit/Addition: We need to ban together, drive AT&T out of business, and serve
notice to the corporate world that they fucking work for us, not the other way
around.

------
boushley
Have you looked into ting? (ting.com) They currently only have android, and
they are just using Sprint's network but they are month to month and it is
super easy to turn off data.

~~~
ISL
Super pleased with Ting. They won't work with OP's AT&T phone, but their
service is good-enough. Especially for voice, where the Sprint service roams
on Verizon.

After a 2-3 month trial, I've switched everything to Ting (and bought stock in
Tucows). Ting's rate plan and philosophy, or something similar, is the future.
Just so long as Sprint doesn't kill them off....

------
nickm12
For those wanting smartphone functionality without smartphone prices, I
suggest using T-Mobile prepaid. I have a Nexus 4 that I use without a data
plan. 90% of my life is spent within the comforting rays of wifi and I use my
phone for email, web browsing, etc. When I'm out I can make voice calls when
needed.

The best part, though, is that you can purchase data access for $3 a day. So
when I travel I usually turn on the data so I can stay connected and look
things up.

------
Moto7451
Id suggest 86-ing them and go to Straighttalk. They're an AT&T MVNO and for
$55 you get unlimited service and data.

~~~
gergles
It's $45, but you only get 2GB of data. They advertise 'unlimited' but if you
go even a byte over 2 GB they harass you with automated phone calls and then
'throttle' you (down to less than 1 Kb/s, so basically disable your data
access, as everything times out).

The California Department of Consumer Affairs doesn't seem to care about their
abuse of the term 'unlimited', but we should here.

------
xpaulbettsx
I can confirm this, the exact same thing happened to me. No notice, just
decided my phone should cost an extra $80/mo

~~~
techsupporter
What in the world kind of data plan did AT&T force you onto that costs
$80/month?

~~~
xpaulbettsx
In my case, the SIM card had the most basic of boring voice plans, then it
upgraded it to the Data + Text + Voice "standard" iPhone plan

------
shurcooL
Not related to AT&T's crappy move, but I found it interesting that I went the
opposite direction and now own a data-only plan. I get my voice and texting
using VOIP for nearly free, and the data only plan is much cheaper than
smartphone or voice only plans.

~~~
KMag
Details please! Who's your VOIP provider?

------
chris_wot
Surely that is illegal? How can you be signed up to a contract you don't agree
to?

~~~
Groxx
By signing a contract that says they can do this?

~~~
chris_wot
They didn't sign or agree to anything. Or at least so it says in the article.
Unless you mean they signed an agreement that they agreed to literally any
terms - which would be an unenforcable contract.

Your use of the question mark is unnecessary and smacks of snark. Please don't
do that.

~~~
Xylakant
I assume the GP meant that the clause was in the original contract the author
signed when getting the sim-card he's currently using. That contract might
have a clause to the effect that smartphone usage with that SIM costs extra.

~~~
chris_wot
Seems unlikely. It looks like they replaced the contract. I'd be interested in
seeing the datapan contract to confirm this!

------
rgovind
Since Android is open source...Can I change something in the source code and
make it appear to AT&T a normal phone? Then AT&T won't know that I am using a
smartphone? Is there no way to send a wrong IMEI number?

~~~
goggles99
Yes, XDA developers has a lot of info about this. Also search Google.

------
dshep
Things like this are why you should avoid phone contracts. I'm been happy with
StraightTalk. I have the AT&T variant and it has been quite good. Only
downside is no service outside of the US.

------
DanBC
Just a small point, but #4d4d4d on white, with that particular font, is
unreadable to some people. And it's probably more people than you realise.

------
swiil
+1 ... this happened to some of the users on my plan as well. Was finally able
to turn it off but it took a lot of drama.

------
Spooky23
If you are getting voicemail on an iPhone, you're using data.

The arguments here don't make sense -- you can buy a prepaid AT&T phone for
$30 or less at any drugstore, target or wal-mart.

------
timcederman
What's with the svbtle ripoff?

~~~
RobotCaleb
What's with the only comments where I hear someone complain about a website
looking like another website only ever asking about svbtle? What's so special
about that site? Or in sites looking similar in the first place?

~~~
DanBC
Dustin Curtis posts here. He made an unfortunate post announcing svbtle, which
annoyed a few people. One of them made a svbtle rip off.

(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3742314>)

(<http://dcurt.is/codename-svbtle>)

(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3744237>)

------
goggles99
This has been going on for years.

AT&T forces $25 dataplan on anysmartphone (even sans contract)
[http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-internet-wireless/how-
spoo...](http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-internet-wireless/how-spoof-imei-
because-t-forces-25-dataplan-anysmartphone-even-sans-contract-104959.html)

Just change your IMEI number. Yes it is still legal in the US (who knows for
how long though).

------
WayneDB
Joel, you said "They can opt me into a contract that I didn't agree to", but
are you sure that you didn't implicitly/legally agree to something that says
they can do that? Maybe their Terms of Service?

~~~
joelrunyon
According to the TOS, they're supposed to notify you and give you a way to
cancel in 30 days. I was notified but never given the chance to cancel.

~~~
greg5green
That means that you had 30 days from when they changed the TOS. Not from when
they started charging you.

------
goggles99
Should have changed his IMEI (International Mobile Equipment Identity Number)
too.

