
Venezuela arrests 4 bitcoin miners as trading highs continue - elmar
http://bitcoinist.com/venezuela-arrests-bitcoin-miners/
======
kbart
There was an interesting article few months back about Bitcoin mining in
Venezuela[0].

TL;DR _" Bitcoin mining is arguably the best possible use of electricity in
Venezuela because it's providing the country with what it needs most—a
relatively stable currency that retains its value across borders."_

[http://reason.com/archives/2016/11/28/the-secret-
dangerous-w...](http://reason.com/archives/2016/11/28/the-secret-dangerous-
world-of)

~~~
amenod
The article seems very anti-socialist:

> ... making life tolerable—if not always easy—in the midst of a socialist
> hell.

I have no idea how it is in Venezuela, but as a citizen of former socialist /
now capitalist republic I take such articles with a grain of salt.

One could also argue that they are basically stealing the (heavily subsidized)
energy from other citizens of Venezuela. In capitalism such thing would be
normal, but in socialism it is far from it.

~~~
nickik
No. In (idea) capitalism it would be normal for the energy to be sold and a
price emerging from the supply and demand.

They are not 'stealing' the energy 'from other citizens' they are using the
energy that the bad repressive government of Venezuela provides. Its the
governments prorogative to subsidize energy, and they have to deal with the
consequences.

I however agree that 'in the midst of a socialist hell' is not an apportierte
way to write an article.

------
v768
I live in Venezuela and just looked at my electricity invoice: In November I
paid 0,00004 USD/kWh. The prices were raised in December: 0,00016 USD/kWh. If
you prefer having your own generator, diesel fuel is 0,0000001 $/L. You can
get 7356000 Liters for one dollar. So basically energy is free.

~~~
giarc
Those diesel prices in USD?

~~~
ufo
I assume the prices are in Bolivars and that they haven't been reajusted by
the government in a while, despite the hyperinflation.

~~~
thiagoharry
I know that in Venezuela fuel is extremely cheap. After all, they produce lots
of petroleum and they follow the political decision to use some of this oil to
drop the prices in the internal market, even when exportation prices would
make them get more money selling all the oil to foreign countries.

~~~
nonbel
>"Venezuela: We have calculated the price of diesel using the 2012 benchmark
results from the German Development Agency. Then, we updated the data with up-
to-date currency values and information on the change in international
petroleum prices. Based on these estimates, the price of diesel is 0 U.S.
Dollar. For comparison, the average price of diesel in the world for this
period is 0.91 U.S. Dollar. "
[http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Venezuela/diesel_prices/](http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Venezuela/diesel_prices/)

Wow.

Edit: It looks like the price is so low scripts are breaking all over the
place: "The price of diesel in Venezuela is 0 EUR per liter which is 100%
lower than the average world price."
[http://www.mytravelcost.com/Venezuela/gas-
prices/](http://www.mytravelcost.com/Venezuela/gas-prices/)
[http://www.mytravelcost.com/Venezuela/gas-
prices/](http://www.mytravelcost.com/Venezuela/gas-prices/)

------
koolba
Of all the places to mine Bitcoin, why Venezuela? Is the electricity
subsidized enough to justify all the other headaches associates with running
an operation out of there?

With the instability of their currency I can understand why someone would want
to use or buy bitcoin, but why mine there?

~~~
climber_mac
I'm from Venezuela, and happen to know a few people that are mining bitcoin
down there. Electricity is incredibly cheap! You practically don't have to
factor electricity costs in your operation. Yes, the grid is very unstable,
but you can always by generators that run on gasoline (which is also
incredibly cheap! a full tank of gas for your car will cost less than 0.1
USD.)

Now, this is obviously horrible for the environment. But what can you expect
when your own currency is being rapidly destroyed by the power-hungry idiots
that have taken hold of the country. Let's hope for a brighter future.

~~~
csomar
Can you shed a light on how is the situation there? The media made it seem
like nobody is surviving right over there. I hope you are safe.

~~~
climber_mac
I have actually been living in Canada for 4 years now. Everything is a very
hairy mess; I was there in the summer of 2015 and remember thinking "Wow!
Things can't get possibly worst than this", and then I went back unexpectedly
late this year and I can't tell you how much worst things are looking.

The infrastructure is collapsing, finding food to eat is a game of going to
every supermarket in the city, among other things. I think my Dad puts it
really well when he says that Venezuela has had a reversal of all the progress
we made for decades; people have lost a lot of their values simply because
life is so tough.

------
bookbinder
> Venezuela has arrested a group of Bitcoin miners for allegedly “affecting
> stability” of the country’s electricity supply.

I don't understand. Does Venezuela have some law that says people aren't
allowed to use too much electricity for "X"? The article is a bit light on
details. Thenagain, maybe this is just business as usual in a country on the
verge of collapse.

~~~
DavidHm
Whether or not there's a specific law for it is irrelevant, sadly.

Government doesn't like it, therefore government shuts it down. If it wasn't
for "affecting stability of electricity supply", it would probably be
"affecting stability of the economy" or something else.

~~~
gozur88
Every government has laws that can be applied to pretty much any activity if
interpreted broadly enough. What not every government has is a functioning
court system that keeps them from getting interpreted that broadly.

------
WhitneyLand
There are good reasons for wanting to mine. The official currency is extremely
devalued and essentially not trusted. Everyone wants us dollars, and bitcoin
is better as well.

And remember it's not just a matter of having money. Everything is rationed
harshly, so you can't just go into a grocery store and fill up your cart
everyday, even if you happen to have money which most people do not.

The irony is that oil is effectively free. No food but plenty of oil. Most of
the problems are the result of government leadership making bad decisions over
a long period.

If you're traveling down there for business ask what you can bring to donate.
If you fill up all extra space in your luggage from the US it can be a godsend
to bring diapers, and other stuff that is hard to get but desperately needed.

------
Wilduck
It doesn't say it in the article, but they were actually stealing the power.
Therefore it's non-news... just something that would happen in every in any
country when the thieves get caught.

