
Agile is not a Fucking Noun - MrDevelopmerMad
https://medium.com/@magdoub/agile-is-not-a-fucking-noun-e2064b241311
======
libertymcateer
Surprised to see this post so far up on HN.

Not only is Agile still very valuable with lots of good lessons to teach us -
this guy's complaints are technically wrong - his examples pertain to the use
of the word as a _verb_ or an _adjective_ \- not as a noun. And, to be fair,
in the context of software, turning Agile into a verb is perfectly fair.

"Agile Master Alliance" \- Adjective - it modifies "Master"

"How to Agile" \- Verb.

"Agile Certificate" \- Adjective. You could argue that it is a nominalization,
but that is truly splitting hairs.

Let's put it another way: if this guy doesn't know what a
[gerund]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerund))
is, or what
[nominalization]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominalization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominalization))
is, that is not Agile's problem.

So, in the end, what is this guy's point, other than "get off my lawn"?

Edit/update:

Magdoub's point is this:

>You don’t need velocity, daily stand ups, points estimations, spikes, scrum
masters to deliver high quality software. You just need good people.

That is so catastrophically false that I don't even know where to start. I
mean, really sanity-blasting. Sure, maybe cargo-cult adherence to agile tenets
is not going to help anyone, but throwing management methodology out the
window and hoping that "good people" just somehow summon good software into
being is comically naive.

~~~
joslin01
> but throwing management methodology out the window and hoping that "good
> people" just somehow summon good software into being is comically naive.

Maybe so, but to play devil's advocate, it's Valve's entire business model.

~~~
elthran
To be picky, it's valve's management model, their business model is just to be
a marketplace/hat vendor, allowing transactions on other people's work.

I'm long past the point of viewing them as a company selling software.

~~~
swampthinker
And given their poor history in putting out new games and content, I'm
honestly not too impressed by Valve as of late.

------
ktRolster
It's hard to take a post seriously when the author thinks project management
methods didn't exist before 1999. This stuff has been going on since the 60s
or earlier.

(Mythical Man Month is a famous example. Tony Hoare also had some good
thoughts on the topic:
[http://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs422/2014/bib/hoare81emperor...](http://zoo.cs.yale.edu/classes/cs422/2014/bib/hoare81emperor.pdf)
)

------
ef4
I have seen some of the most excruciating fake-agile organizations you can
imagine. I am 100% on board with efforts to criticize that.

But even the critics seem to get blinded by methodology. Methodology is only a
second-order effect. The real issue is cultural and structural. If your
culture is all about command and control, your agile methodologies will keep
mysteriously not helping.

Debating methodology is quite beside the point. Some organizations are just
structurally waterfall, deep in their bones, and can't be salvaged without
massive social upheaval. You don't fix them by changing what people do, you
fix them by changing how people define their relationships to the organization
and each other.

------
lanestp
I think the rage is a bit over the top. I expected James Rolfe quotes...
"Scrum is buffalo diarrhea!"

I don't mind the blowback against Agile, it and TDD have both entered cargo
cult territory and a lot of the stricter implementations are just laughably
naive and ineffective (Especially if there is a "Certified Scrum Master"
involved). But to just say Agile and all the modern processes are bad is
ridiculous.

It may be time to start having a discussion about what's next in software
development wether that be Agile the next generation or something new. Channel
the rage!

~~~
jdmichal
I personally think Kanban is the next step. It's certainly the next step where
I work. All the things management loves, but without the silly sprint cycles.
Much more fluid.

Whether it will be a _better_ experience is yet to be seen.

------
Test654321
Enough with the f* word already. It doesn't emphasize anything you intend to
convey

~~~
joslin01
I'm with you. Got nothing against the word and think that it can be used
appropriately, but 99% of the time, it's lazy gutter language intended to
provoke and strengthen an argument on "toughness" grounds. e.g., "You fucking
said that?" is interpreted a lot differently than "You really said that?"

------
kordless
> It’s time to reclaim Agility.

Note that I did not capitalize "agility", which is being used as a noun here.
I think if I was going to write an article saying agile isn't a noun, I
wouldn't use it as a noun in the article.

~~~
dghf
But "agility" _is_ a noun. By using it here instead of "agile", he's
emphasising his point that the latter is not a noun.

------
numinary1
Q: What is the difference between a methodologist and a terrorist? A: You can
negotiate with a terrorist.

Methodologies are useful as tools used by developers to organize their work
and make themselves more productive.

When methodologists enter the picture, the benefits are lost, because
methodologists serve the methodology, not the developers' product.

All methodologies are eventually hijacked by methodologists. Some dev orgs are
smart enough to avoid them or at least limit their influence. Mahmoud is
clearly not working in one of them.

------
askyourmother
We have painting by numbers for those that cannot paint, and we have agile for
those that cannot program or deliver projects. Oh, and agile (TM) really only
exists to sell numerous books, conferences, and basically give useless
managers and clients a hope in hell of producing something.

~~~
marcus_holmes
I remember when the original Agile Manifesto came out, and what a ruckus it
caused.

The idea that programmers should be responsible for making decisions about
projects, not management... that did not sit well with some.

Still doesn't.

It might be time to have another Manifesto saying the same thing under a
different name.

------
CurtHagenlocher
Tangentially, English is the most agile language of all; words can and do
bleed into different categories all the time. My favorite is when people say
they've "third-class'd" a route -- meaning that they climbed it without a
rope.

~~~
xufi
Yeah thats kind of like how I view different things in English too. For
example, when people are still confused between their/there or they're. A lot
of people tend to blend all the 3 together . Call be a obnoxious but thats a
pet peeve of mine

------
jasim
There are places which call themselves agile and do shoddy short-term thinking
all the time. You might want to embrace some waterfall here - processes over
people so that priorities aren't changing by the minute. Story points and
rigid velocity based forecasts so that we can cut scope and ship on time.

Then there are metrics-driven places with scrum masters and burn down charts
and hour-long standups. Managers here want to actively manage, so they make
themselves busy doing negative work. Here we can do less with processes and
put more trust in people.

Agile is being used to mean both, depending on which side of the spectrum the
person's frustration is. It all depends, right?

------
dugword
This appears to be an uncredited summary of Dave Thomas's talk, "Agile is
Dead"

[http://youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M](http://youtube.com/watch?v=a-BOSpxYJ9M)

~~~
dghf
From the article:

> This post merely a reminder of the actual values mentioned in the Manifesto.
> I was inspired by this great talk: Agile is Dead (Long Live Agility) — Dave
> Thomas

The talk's title is hyperlinked to the same URL you give.

------
neverman
Well it's now becoming acceptable English to verb nouns (a different
transform), adjectivize verbs and nouns, and noun verbs. We have been doing
this for centuries.

I run. (Verb) I went on a run. (Noun) I move at a fast run speed. (Adverb) I
went to the run start location. (Adjective)

That the constant turnover of technical concepts and terminology has
accelerated the use of these transforms is not an issue special to Agile
anything, nor does it imply anything about good or bad practices.

Keep your grammar nazi-isms out of my Agile critiques please!

------
wandernotlost
This is a bit overly simplistic. There are lots of bad ways to develop
software, and a few good ways. Placing yourself in a vacuum with "good people"
who insist on starting from scratch without learning from the failures and
successes of others who came before them is not one of the good ways.

For the record, neither is dogmatic adherence to a methodology, but that can
be useful as a learning exercise.

------
aardshark
Nouning weirds adjectives.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Agileing weirds everything.

------
ulkesh
Good luck convincing any middle manager who somehow keeps his job by only
knowing buzz words.

------
squozzer
Fucking is not an adjective.

~~~
v64
It certainly is a fucking adjective.

