
Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent - nilmonibasak
http://www.nextbigwhat.com/microsoft-is-downloading-6gb-of-windows-10-updates-without-users-consent-297/
======
rubidium
Headline is misleading. They do have consent. This is one reason I don't allow
automatic updates.

MS statement: "For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates
through Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by
downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade."

~~~
belorn
What consent is that if people don't understands the facts, implications, and
future consequences of the action. Worse, updates has an common perception to
be small security fixes.

Should we call it uninformed consent? tricked consent? non-binding consent?

If we want to use legal terms, is 6G download _ordinarily and reasonably to be
contemplated_ by the user?

~~~
Karunamon
Well take your pick, then. You can have automatic updates and get
security/functionality updates, or you can not and not, and an OS upgrade can
be reasonably considered under the aegis of system updates.

Y'all have been campaigning for users to be automatically updated, often
whether they want to or not (c.f. Windows rebooting overnight causing the loss
of any open documents) because having them not be makes everyone demonstrably
less safe and users will never update if you ask them to.

You can't have it both ways. Which will it be?

~~~
pdkl95
You and a _lot_ of other people in this thread seem to be going out of your
way to conflate _automatic updates_ (such as security patches), and _upgrading
to another product_ (such as Win [78] -> Win 10).

You're trying to tie the concepts together to create false dichotomy, which
you use as a rhetorical tactic. This usually involves specifically ignoring
the people you're replying to and many other posts in the thread that already
answered this subject.

~~~
Karunamon
The "different product" differentiation is more a marketing one than an
objective one. The notable changes between 8/10 are a lot less than, say.
3.1/95.

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FilterSweep
I'm extremely disappointed that I had "turned off" my development work PCs
automatic updates, however after a few weeks I found the telemetry update
(KB3068708) for Windows 7 installed fully without my consent.

I had "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them," selected
in Windows Update for this category of update. I did not choose to install
this, and I was made aware from a HN thread made a few weeks ago.

The update was visible, at that time, _but not installed._ Now, a few weeks
later, the update is on my computer. I believe the update was actually
installed during an unrelated security update which I had allowed.

I'm wondering if I'll have to use external scripts of my own or third party to
remove the telemetry bug on my computer.

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pachydermic
This is really infuriating... Microsoft, what the hell?

I really hope steam machines take off (and stay relatively open). As soon as
I'm happy with the number of games Linux supports I'm dropping windows like a
rock.

~~~
psykovsky
So... never?

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johnward
I don't get the "without consent" part. If you have automatic updates on you
consent to them automatically downloading things.

~~~
melling
It's crazy that Microsoft gets so much heat for trying everything it can to
get people to its latest OS. By this time next week, a couple hundred million
people will be running iOS 9. Within six months they should have 85-90% of
their users on it. This makes it better for Apple, developers, and the users.
Windows needs a little more of an "onward" mentality.

~~~
Retra
Microsoft is getting heat for trying everything they can because they're
supposed to be "trying everything they _should_ ," instead of violating their
user's expectations.

It's great the MS wants everyone on their latest OS. But "latest" doesn't mean
"best." Taking away user choice subverts the economic principles that
encourage improvement -- that "best" is decided by the consumer, not the
producer.

It would be ideal for developers if we all just used one OS. That doesn't mean
it's the right thing to do for the customers, the economy, or society.

~~~
johnward
Can't users opt out by disabling automatic updates? Microsoft is basically
doing what every other modern software company does but taking heat for it.

~~~
wang_li
Arguably all software vendors who sell a product should be prepared to do two
things:

1\. continue fixing bugs in their prior products. 2\. create new features in
new products.

People who buy something, e.g. an original iPad, no longer get OS updates even
though the item was advertised as being safe to use to access content on the
internet. This is provably false and while EULA shenanigans provide a fig leaf
of propriety, the reality is what was sold was defective and if it's possible
to fix it they should.

Opting out of updates means that you don't get fixes. The argument that you
agree to these kinds of changes in fundamental behavior because you are
receiving new features is B.S. The company sold me a defective product and
certain documented behaviors. I'm ok with those behaviors but I want the
product to work for the features advertised. I should have to tolerate
excessive data collection simply to get a functional product.

~~~
johnward
Just for the record the iPad2 still updates. Though the hardware can barely
handle iOS8. It's almost unusable. It seems crazy to think there would not be
an end of support for something that old. Maybe Apple doesn't allow updates
because they don't want the original iPad to become completely unusable?

~~~
wang_li
The old devices become effectively unusable as new bugs are discovered and
patches are not created, tested and distributed.

It should be possible to fix bugs without having to add in new features. E.g.
I shouldn't need to upgrade to floating icons with a parallax background to
get a fix for PDF parsing problems.

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anakha
For anyone running Windows 7 or 8.1 that wants to stop the Windows 10 upgrade
pop-ups or the download if the PC hasn't already downloaded it, uninstall and
hide KB3035583.

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malux85
Holy smoke - this isn't very good.

My parents in NZ only get 1 or 2 GB a month ... this would have cost them a
fortune.

Fortunately I switched them to mac last year.

Microsoft : You suck.

~~~
tbrock
Yeah but, if unpatched, it would have downloaded more as part of a botnet.

~~~
detaro
Windows 10 is not a "a patch"

~~~
Karunamon
Windows Update downloads more than "patches". It has been used in the past to
distribute standalone tools and service packs.

~~~
function_seven
It has never wholesale upgraded the OS to a new major version. Nobody expects
it to.

~~~
9872
And that's a large part of why Windows security has always been terrible.
While we may not have expected it, that just means we were pleasantly
surprised.

------
draw_down
Claiming consent because automatic updates are on is really, really a stretch.
Strikes me as disingenuous. I'm very surprised they've done this, it just
seems so stupid and prone to backfire.

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pasbesoin
In yet another fashion, MS demonstrating its considerable disconnect from and
lack of understanding of (and/or apparent will to understand) a significant
portion of its "average users".

A lot of people have space and bandwidth limitations. We don't all live it the
land of huge capacity and unmetered fiber connections.

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brandon272
I wouldn't argue that I haven't given consent if I have "download updates
automatically" in my settings.

That being said, Microsoft should use better judgment in terms of checking for
available disk space (i.e. don't auto download 6GB worth of updates unless
20GB+ space is available on the drive) and not saturating customer connections
since the update is by no means critical (i.e. limit it to 10% of the user's
bandwidth)

~~~
lukeschlather
I don't think 20GB is enough to make 6GB a trivial amount. I'd say more like
100GB.

MS needs to prompt when downloading amounts of data over a few hundred
megabytes, period. There are still places in the world where a prompt is
required even for amounts measured in megabytes.

------
0x0
ISPs with metered subscribers are going to make a killing this month!

~~~
Karunamon
Isn't there an on-by-default option that causes Windows to behave differently
wrt. updates if you're on a metered connection? Still, it's on the user to
mark their connection as metered...

~~~
McGlockenshire
The "this is a metered connection" toggle will only appear for wireless
devices. There is no way to enable it when on a wired network.

Source: Much googling after I found myself on a hotel's low-bandwidth network
for a week.

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A010
So, basically update means upgrade now?

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tdees40
I feel sorry for New Zealanders, where the internet is typically metered...

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ebarock
What has Microsoft done with user consent?

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biot
Every week I adjust my (icon bar?) settings to change the "Get Windows 10"
application back to "Show only notifications". Windows keeps resetting it to
"Show icons and notifications". Perhaps I should file that as a bug report.

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teaneedz
So why are we allowing Microsoft to get away with it?

~~~
x5n1
Why are we allowing any of the corporations, governments, and police
departments to get away with any of the stupid shit they continuously do?
Mostly because it would take a significant act of power to do anything about
it, power which we don't have and even if we do, we do not wish to exercise.
The exercising of which would probably cause more problems in the short term
than it would solve. Most people will not do anything about such problems.

~~~
GrinningFool
> Mostly because it would take a significant act of power to do anything about
> it, power which we don't have and even if we do, we do not wish to exercise.

It starts a step before that - awareness. Most folks aren't aware of the
things that are done, and even of those who are only a minor subset consider
these things to be a problem.

Lack of motivation to try to make change winnows out most of those who get
past the first two problems. The unfortunate truth is that of the small subset
who are aware and offended, most simply have higher priorities.

~~~
x5n1
> Most folks aren't aware of the things that are done

I totally disagree. With today's media most people are hyper aware,
disproportionately, of everything that goes on. Perhaps even desensitized by
their over-awareness.

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mirages
Short script to disable that behavior (and telemetry)

[https://gist.github.com/Citillara/3ad19ce3314a0964758f](https://gist.github.com/Citillara/3ad19ce3314a0964758f)

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lotso
It seems Microsoft's position is that if a user has auto-updates on, they have
consented to downloading the installer for Windows 10.

~~~
sp332
The default selection is to download and install updates automatically. You'd
think they would check for available disk space beforehand though.

~~~
zxcvcxz
Is there a reason Windows just lets you run out of disk space? On Linux when
I'm downloading something and come close to running out of space the download
stops and I get an alert saying I need to delete something.

~~~
ars
That's the program doing that, not the OS.

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xtrumanx
Anyone know what the "$Windows.~BT" folder is would supposedly be located?

~~~
Alupis
in the root of the C:\ drive (it's a hidden directory)

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VOYD
That's funny, I don't see that on my two Win8 machines.

