

Show HN: Greater Peace of Mind Guaranteed, or Your Money Isn't Refunded - milkman
http://vowofnow.com

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magikarp
Let me get this straight. You've hired a Zen master so that your team can
encourage people to meditate in order not to lose the money they've gambled?
You seriously think you can inspire true meditation in someone by making them
worry about the money they'll lose if they don't "meditate?" What's wrong with
you? More importantly, what's wrong with the obviously fraudulent Zen master
that's helping you do this?

First of all, meditation shouldn't have anything to do with a financial
worry/financial incentive. This is one of the most dishonest things I've seen
on HN. It's a cheap way to make money off the unsuspecting, naive crowd that's
never had the patience or discipline to try meditation and has money to waste.
Your website isn't even technically innovative; it makes money by encouraging
people to give you their money, and you get to keep it if they don't achieve
deeply personal goals that involve _detachment, peace and personal discovery_.
How are you helping? How is taking money hostage contributing to the spirit of
true meditation?

If you want to make money, go beyond an HTML page that laughs in the face of
meditation and make something actually useful, like a real product.

I'm saying this as someone who did specialized research in Zen buddhism in an
academic environment for one year.

~~~
pm
His name is 'milkman', after all.

~~~
milkman
LMAO! :)

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kolektiv
You have a typo in your subline: "Pledge money and vow to mediate for 30 days
straight."

I am assuming mediate should be meditate, unless you really want my help in a
peace process (not wise).

~~~
milkman
Thank you. I'll correct that.

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DanBC2
You're getting a pretty hostile response!

People are free to spend their money on whatever they want. I'd prefer them to
spend money on meditation than on, for example, telephone psychics or
homeopathy.

Motivation is a tricky, unsolved, problem. It's really important too - people
need motivation to stop smoking, to eat better, to exercise more. These all
have serious public health impacts. So I welcome anyone working on this
problem. I hope you're keeping detailed stats.

Good Luck!

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burningion
Awesome! Love the idea, and would love to partner up and make a deal to get
people excited and started meditating. I released Buddha Mind
(<http://buddhamindapp.com>) yesterday, an app which incorporates a heart rate
monitor to measure changes in your heart rate variance.

Shoot me an email at my username at gmail dot com, and let's see if we can't
get more people excited about meditating and learning to control their mind.

~~~
milkman
Thank you. Lets do it. I'll zip you an email now.

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jbattle
First off, I think it's a cool idea. Now, I certainly don't expect this is the
case here, but the cynic in me notes that in a set up like this, there is
actually a financial incentive for the 'service provider' here to provide such
a bad product that they actually turn customers away.

The better the service provided, the more likely customers are to stick with
the program, and the less money they make.

~~~
milkman
I certainly can't wait to get feedback from the people who are already taking
the vow. Hopefully they achieve greater peace and make meditation a fun habit
and will tell others. Then I can get some testimonials for the site.

~~~
eflowers
I am going to give it a try, and my evaluator is an orthodox buddhist
practitioner. Without criteria for what constitutes a success, do you
realistically thing people will qualify for the "Refund" level of completion?

I guess, what is the plan for people who do complete the 30 days and try their
best, get a positive evaluation from a peer, but then don't meet your
criteria? "Sorry you did your best, but I'm keeping your 20 bucks."

I already paid, so you'll be hearing back :)

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waivej
I read about someone pledged to give money to the KKK if she ever smoked
again. The negative association was motivational. The strength of the feeling
was stronger than the urge to break the habit.

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crucialfelix
only 15 minutes ? lazy bastards. kyōsaku thwack

~~~
milkman
Yeah, I agree. Things don't even get interesting for me until 30 minutes in.

I wanted it to be attainable for everyone though, even novices with "monkey
mind".

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rokhayakebe
I would pledge between $5 and $10. No thinking. At that point we may even
start to talk subscription.

~~~
milkman
Twenty seemed like the magic number for me after much deliberation, but maybe
I could add "commitment levels" or whatever so people can increase or decrease
the amount of their pledge.

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borplk
genius!

~~~
marcioaguiar
my thoughts exactly

~~~
milkman
Thanks guys!

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transitionality
Uh, this is really stupid. You can do this exact same thing for any activity
for free with joesgoals.com or any of the tens of other freely available
"don't break the chain" web apps.

Here are some more:

[http://www.openforum.com/articles/17-best-tools-and-apps-
for...](http://www.openforum.com/articles/17-best-tools-and-apps-for-building-
new-habits-and-goals/)

~~~
Alterlife
I think the difference is that this website isn't a generic habit forming
tool. There's a specific goal and the website will provide you information on
how to achieve it.

According to the FAQ:

> Pay the $20 pledge and follow the Zen Master’s instructions that are emailed
> to you

That said, I'm not very comfortable with this website since the parameters for
success and the content of the program are not clearly defined before you
commit... and 20$ isn't a throwaway amount in my local currency (besides
there's the inconvenience that even if the money is returned, I will loose the
currency conversion cost).

~~~
milkman
Great feedback. I need to clarify that.

Basically, the Zen Master provides an assessment form for your evaluator to
fill out and sign.

The evaluator you choose is the one who decides at the end of the 30 day VOW
of NOW whether you have achieved zen mind through diligent meditation practice
- and get a refund (or not).

This system provides feedback from a trusted peer, as well as provides a money
incentive (your own money).

~~~
logn
Wow. This couldn't sound any more like a scam. So it's basically a cable
Christian channel asking people to donate money to save their souls. Or the
Catholic Church offering to sell Indulgences to sinners. Nice startup.

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tallanvor
I guess if you want to make money off the failures of others... Personally,
that's not something I would ever want to be associated with.

~~~
milkman
Well, that's a little unfair to say since you don't know me or my motivation
behind this project.

The only person that can "fail" you is your evaluator - the person YOU choose
to help you keep your vow. Your evaluator must fill out an assessment after
your 30 day vow which decides whether you get your refund.

EDIT: Bailing out early from the vow also makes a person ineligible for a
refund. The VOW of NOW is for 30 days in a row, no less.

