
Google to Invest $10B in India - jmsflknr
https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/13/google-to-invest-10-billion-in-india/
======
amrrs
There's been a recent surge in American companies investing in India primarily
through Reliance Jio (owned by Mukhesh Ambani who's got a good connect with
the current ruling Government). It's been spiking since the Anti-China
sentiment led Buy and Use 'Made in India' cries. Government has even asked
eCom Flipkart and Amazon to display Country of Origin for each product.

With all these, This investment from Google seems another strategic move by an
American company to say that we're truly concerned about Indian growth. So
that their development centers here or products made for India don't get
flagged as American.

Reference - Foxconn, Intel, Qualcomm, Facebook

[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/apple-
sup...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/apple-supplier-
foxconn-to-invest-1-billion-in-india-sources/articleshow/76931415.cms)

[https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/12/qualcomm-to-
invest-97-mill...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/12/qualcomm-to-
invest-97-million-in-indias-reliance-jio-platforms/)

[https://www.cnet.com/news/after-facebook-intel-invests-
into-...](https://www.cnet.com/news/after-facebook-intel-invests-into-indias-
largest-telecom-jio/)

~~~
frequentnapper
I don't see how it's not alarming for Indians that one key person/company
connected to the govt is the sole beneficiary of incoming businesses into
India.

~~~
ankit219
There is a cause for alarm, and some Indians do see that as a threat. Right
now, Indian society is caught in a deep web of fake news, false narratives,
and the conflating of what the govt is, what the nation is, and the difference
between the two. Many competitors have raised a lot of questions about how Jio
did not follow the rules (there are a lot to link) the basic one being a rule
about giving free plans for more than three months (which was not allowed by
TRAI - Indian telecom regulatory authority - previously). but nothing
happened, and people were happy with free internet. A lot of these issues are
buried under loads of information on the many 24 hour news channels (two of
them owned by Mukesh Ambani himself) and then the web of Whatsapp and other
online social media helping to shape a narrative.

Then there is an average indian feeling pride about how Jio is able to attract
such investments. So, some of us may have considered it, and would have spoken
about it, but a lot are not really aware. When people do speak against these,
they are usually tagged as cynical or contrarian because speaking against a
public figure in India is sometimes considered speaking against India.

P.S. Sorry for being so vague, but this requires a lot of context to ascertain
why it is this way. I dont blame whatsapp or Facebook, just that we are a
vulnerable bunch and usually believe what we want to believe.

~~~
kamaal
Most Indians care only about the cheapest workable plan, product, service,
while making a purchase. It's not about Jio, it's about the 500 rupees free
call, free SMS, free 4G plans. As long as Jio offers it they'll use it.
They'll drop it as soon as something cheaper comes around.

Mukesh Amabani, is mostly raising money because he had simply too much debt,
and he is also getting old. It could also be a part of larger succession
planning. His kids are not that much hands-on into business as much as he was
with his father. It makes sense to have a Tata Sons Trust like scenario where
professional managers runs the companies while the companies are owned through
a holding trust owned by his children.

The experiment with Anil Ambani's mismanagement and the state he has left his
business is a lesson for Mukesh to not let it repeat with his own children.

~~~
nindalf
> They'll drop it as soon as something cheaper comes around.

My bet - nothing cheaper comes along. Because Reliance's biggest competitive
advantage is close links with the government, regardless of the party in
power. A hypothetical competitor would find it difficult to get spectrum
allocated, have trouble with land usage rights, tax issues like Vodafone had.

There is a reason foreign companies set up joint ventures with Reliance, Tata,
Birla etc. Ostensibly it's because these companies "understand" the Indian
market. In reality, it's because they have spent decades "lobbying" political
parties and will continue doing so for several decades more. A company like
Sky wouldn't know how to get started with political lobbying, wouldn't be
comfortable with outright bribery, can't make a long term commitment to
staying in India. So they set up Tata Sky - they supply the tech, Tata
supplies the connections.

~~~
intended
Indian telecom is now a classic oligopoly, far from our heady days as one of
the most insanely competitive telecom markets.

~~~
enitihas
Ironically, the prices are far lower than they were in those insanely
competitive days.

~~~
intended
True, yet recently I recall prices being raised and all firms moving in lock
step. A classic signs of oligopolistic behavior.

Further all 3 major firms are in massive debt, and after the SC interpretation
of how they have to pay their dues, they are pretty much dead firms unless
they get money.

You can already see them creating new packages to target users who have more
disposable income.

I'd say make hay while the sun shines. The structure of a market dictates the
strategies and tactics which work. With 3 players collusion is the norm, not
competition.

~~~
asenna
I don't think Jio's game is to squeeze out revenue from the cheap data users.
They've openly admitted to using Deep-packet Inspection techniques and I
believe data harvesting is where the main long-term game looks to be for them.

If you're concerned about your privacy, it's usually known in India in the
tech circles to stay away from Jio related products.

[https://in.reuters.com/article/reliance-telecoms-jio/from-
bi...](https://in.reuters.com/article/reliance-telecoms-jio/from-big-oil-to-
big-data-inside-mukesh-ambanis-20-billion-start-up-idINKCN11611V)

[https://cis-india.org/internet-governance/blog/reliance-jio-...](https://cis-
india.org/internet-governance/blog/reliance-jio-is-using-sni-inspection-to-
block-websites)

~~~
enitihas
What can any packet inspection do over https, since that's where the majority
of the important traffic is,not to mention that a lot of apps use certificate
pinning, so even MITM can't help analyse the packets. And all this is before
eSNI becomes mainstream.

------
MangoCoffee
China is aging.

China population
[https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2020/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/china/2020/)

vs

India population
[https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/2020/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/india/2020/)

China will never develop a consumption based economy with its aging
population. It takes Europe, decades for its population to age. It only take
Japan 25 years to age like Europe and China's one child policy is not helping
and its on track to age like Japan.

It's only a logical decision to go to India for its young population and most
Indian speak English. If only India is more friendly to foreign business and
can do what CCP did. (central planning) I think India can surpass China to
became number two largest economy.

~~~
btian
> China will never develop a consumption based economy with its aging
> population

Why is that the case? I assume older people consume more than younger ones,
esp healthcare

~~~
MangoCoffee
30-40 is the high of consumption. marriage/kids mean house, car...etc. you
start to pull back after 60 and try to save your money to last you into old
age. health care along is not going to drive the consumption based economy
like when you are in your 30. you can see that in baby boomers. Gen X never
carry United States like baby boomers did and Gen Y will carry America for the
next few decades.

~~~
koheripbal
Can confirm - 3 kids and I've never bought so much shit in my life. I should
replace my front door with a conveyor belt for all the Amazon boxes...

I laughed at that TED talk where the guy shows how shaking your hands can save
a paper towel. We have used more paper towels in the last 1 month than I ever
used in my entire 20 years of single adulthood combined.

------
bamboozled
Getting the feeling China has blown it and successful companies looking to
expand into Asia are now looking at India instead.

I also saw that Foxconn is looking to build Apple products in India now too.

~~~
buran77
Companies don't invest billions in India to shaft China, they're doing it to
maintain or grow their position on the Indian market, which is a _huge_ one.
If India suddenly sees a wave of "build it at home" sentiment then Google or
Apple won't want to be left out and fall behind the competition.

Publicly traded companies can't afford to play favorites, they "have to" go
where the profits are and make the best of it, whether it's decades of being
the mole in a wack-a-mole game with the Chinese system, or having to invest
extra billions in India.

For example the largest manufacturing plant BMW has is in the US. But that's
not because it's cheaper to build there, or because they want to shaft
Germany. It's because they wanted access to that market in an economically and
socially acceptable fashion, making them the biggest auto exporter by value in
the U.S. The "socially acceptable" may not have worked since even the White
House was unaware of this, presumably many Americans also.

~~~
kumarvvr
> Publicly traded companies can't afford to play favorites, they "have to" go
> where the profits are and make the best of it, whether it's decades of being
> the mole in a wack-a-mole game with the Chinese system, or having to invest
> extra billions in India.

True to some extent only. Apart from profits, publicly traded companies also
clamour for a stable business environment. And authoritarian countries have an
inherent risk, due to the nature of their government and uncertainty on the
world stage.

No one can make 50 year plans for China, like they can do with US, Europe or
UK. It's the same case with India too.

Democracies provide an extra level of stability.

~~~
munificent
_> No one can make 50 year plans for China, like they can do with US_

Five years ago, I would have agreed with you about the US. But the direction
that politics have gone since then makes me a lot less sure.

The rate that corruption has grown under the Trump without repercussions is
absolutely astonishing. Like any relationship, I don't know how that break in
trust between the government and its citizens can be repaired.

~~~
newfriend
Give me a break. Very little has effectively changed in the past five years,
aside from the insane polarization of the media.

The Trump administration's "astonishing rate of corruption" you are perceiving
is being massively overstated by partisan media outlets.

Previous administrations were free to engage in all manners of corruption,
while the mainstream media touted their "coolness".

~~~
aylmao
There was definitley a lot of corruption in the USA before Trump. I do think
it's also the case that under Trump things got more shameless, and so the
administration "dares" to go further.

This is worrisome, especially if you don't think corruption is endemic of the
Trump administration. New "boundaries" have been tested and set. Future
administrations have a playbook that can allow them to get away with more.

------
actuator
Seems like a headline grabbing thing in the current geopolitical context. They
are stating $10B in the next 5-7 years. Quite sure a company like Google would
have a spend like that earmarked from way before in one of the big emerging
markets like India. Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Google all have been working
towards this for a while now.

~~~
onetimemanytime
India is probably China of xx years ago, with a lot more protections. I
understand that India is no perfect democracy and corruption exists, but it
still wants to act as a democracy.

~~~
bhaskara2
India is more democratic than even USA. Case in point Arvind Kejriwal and
multiple such leaders. Anyone can form a party and contest the elections and
actually have a fighting chance to govern India, can the same be said about
the USA?

~~~
vinay427
Maybe there is a case to be made here, and maybe you can make a convincing one
given more time. However, as it stands there's a world of difference between
the rise to (local) power of someone like Kejriwal and the claim that India is
more democratic than the US. That is a rather specific feature that, even if
true, is neither sufficient nor required to be democratic.

~~~
smenyp
Why is the burden of proof on the poster arguing that India is more democratic
rather than the side arguing that US is more democratic?

India is the world's largest democracy, has a multi-party system, has had
prime ministers from different religions, and both men and women top leaders.
The US on the other hand has only had Christian leaders (4 have technically
not specified), and all men. It's also a 2-party system. The burden of proof
here for this statement needs to be on the one claiming that US is more
democratic.

The greatest challenge for the rise of India is the colonialistic mindset of
many (but not all) Indians today. Hold yourselves equal and ask for you what
you rightfully deserve.

~~~
vinay427
> Why is the burden of proof on the poster arguing that India is more
> democratic rather than the side arguing that US is more democratic?

Because they made the claim, and I found this claim more unconventional and
potentially more interesting to draw out than the claims in the comment they
replied to. There was no conscious hidden agenda here. If someone (on whatever
side of this discussion) makes a novel claim, they should be expected to
provide a reasonable rationale, or otherwise expect that it will be questioned
or just disregarded.

~~~
cvlasdkv
It is only a "novel" claim in America, where America must be the best of
everything.

~~~
vinay427
The novelty of the claim really wasn't my main point, nor was trying to make
the US out to be the most democratic country. I don't even live there, and it
certainly isn't just in the US that this claim would be seen as novel or
unconventional. One would think someone who points out the ignorance of
"Americans" would not resort to using it themselves in the same discussion.

See the Democracy Index, which rates the US as rather more democratic than
India and has at least some semblance of a loose methodology:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)

------
sumanthvepa
It is fairly routine for foreign companies to tout ther investments into their
host countries’ economies. The headline figure is usually chosen for its
marketing value rather than to fit any kind of GAAP definition.The real
investment levels may not always match.

------
LatteLazy
It's hard to know what's going on here.

Will it actually be 10bn? Only time will tell...

Doing what (sales, dev, support, research)? Is this new productive activity or
just outsourcing?

Why? Is this hedging the risks of China sanctions/user rejection? or the risks
of Indian nationalism? or honestly wanting a more local input on the Indian
market/economy? or a moral decision given China going from bad to worse? Is it
just outsourcing to a low cost country? A mix of all these?

Reading the faff, it sounds like they're selling this in a similar way to
Google fibre: we'll invest to inspire/shame others into doing their job and
also to create a market by showing people what is available.

Interestingly I imagine 10bn USD goes a long long way in India. So this could
be a huge boon for some local areas of India, so that's nice.

~~~
iamgopal
My Guess is datacenter, as it is quite long time since Indian gov want
google,fb etc to have local data local.

------
kaushikt
First Facebook invests $6bn in India with Jio and now Google. There is a lot
of potential in the growing Indian consumer base.

\- 2nd most populated country on the internet

\- english speaking is wide spread

\- adoption towards 'an app for everything' has grown substantially in the
past decade.

So far, I think Google has invested in FreshWorks and Dunzo. I don't think
there was a lot of active participation so far, this might change now.

------
OJFord
How do I read a Techcrunch article without going through
guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers first?

Here's the Times of India, anyway:
[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/google-
to...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/google-to-
invest-10-billion-in-india-will-use-money-to-up-digital-
stake/articleshow/76937268.cms)

~~~
encom
My DNS-level ad blocking trips on TC articles as well, so your solution of
using some other site, that doesn't hate its users is the correct one.

IMHO, such garbage should be filtered from HN.

------
achow
Nature of these investments seems to be somewhat different. These investment
are more towards infrastructure, rural skilling, education etc.

There were couple of ministers who were part of the announcement (unlike other
corporate investment announcement like that of recent FB one, where govt
officials would never make an appearance); one of the ministers even extorted
Google to adopt cluster of villages and make them 'Digital' ones.

[https://youtu.be/GwJJw2fE8T4?t=1625](https://youtu.be/GwJJw2fE8T4?t=1625)

This $10 Billion (!) investment is not in the same league as that of FB,
Intel, Saudi investment in Reliance Jio.

------
noisy_boy
If Google has agreed to store user data locally/share it with the government
in exchange for favourable policies/government turning a blind eye to its
monopolistic position, its a very cheap price for what would be basically a
win-win deal for both parties. The product i.e. extremely price-sensitive
average Indian voter/consumer doesn't care much about privacy anyway.

------
olivermarks
I suggest this is nothing less than a play to control India's core
infrastructure, the first truly digital economy ala the WEF's 4th revolution.
The challenge will be how monopolistic this is and how democratic imo

[https://www.ft.com/content/431e50fb-
eedc-44f7-9c36-d85dd9cc2...](https://www.ft.com/content/431e50fb-
eedc-44f7-9c36-d85dd9cc2f32)

'Google said its “India Digitization Fund” would be spread over five to seven
years, focusing on affordable internet access, new product development
tailored to Indian market needs and accelerating digital transformation, as
well as healthcare, education and agriculture. India, with its 1.3bn
population, represents one of the biggest opportunities for tech companies
globally after hundreds of millions of Indians started using smartphones and
accessing the internet in recent years. Google Pay, the company’s digital
payments service, has grown rapidly since launching in the country in 2017'.

------
sizzle
Between Apple and Google investing heavily in facilities in India, I wonder if
this is the writing on the wall that is the start of building up outsourced
H1-b teams in economical state-of-the-art headquarters while they transition
down their real estate footprint in the Bay Area in the wake of the 'new
normal' way of remote working due to Covid-19.

Any predictions for the next 10 years if this will be a threat to on-shore
devs considering the braindrain occurring at the direction of our president's
myopic leadership and executive orders?

~~~
kccqzy
I don't understand. If they decide to hire more in India they won't need H-1Bs
any more.

Also, presidential cycles are short. A four-year presidency is simply not long
enough to cause massive brain drain to be a threat for anything. But if the
next administration continues to be myopic, I can see that trickle of brain
drain turn into a torrent.

~~~
sizzle
"I don't understand. If they decide to hire more in India they won't need
H-1Bs any more."

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, that the former H-1B
individuals will be hired to work at these new facilities in their homeland
instead of bringing them to the bay area, as they no longer have physical
working spaces here due to Covid-19 office closures and remote WFH for the
foreseeable future.

Tech companies can then divest their expensive bay area real estate and shrink
their HQ footprints to be a more global workforce and at the same time
establish themselves in India and create custom hardware fabs away from
Shenzhen and China, with lower cost savings of labor in India.

This will lower their H-1B hiring and talent acquisition costs drastically and
the best and most talented H-1B's can instead work from the comfort of their
home countries (e.g. India).

Thoughts?

~~~
smenyp
But "this will increase salaries by reducing supply" is the common narrative
on HN that one cannot fight.

Reasoning bottoms-up, you are right. This will reduce Bay Area footprint, and
will allow good talent to join at lower costs. Couple this with top Indian
talent in US not being treated fairly (most Indian immigrants have to wait 4-5
decades before being eligible for a green card even at Google / FB / etc..).
The future for the Bay Area may not be as bright as the last 15 years. I
certainly hope this isn't the case since I have a vested interest in the Bay
Area but I do think longer term this is going to be the outcome though.. :(

Reasoning ground-up is not the faint of hear though. Most people want to
extrapolate the world from the recent past based on their personal self-
serving biases.

~~~
sizzle
Thank, I'm also invested in this area. I am trying to arm myself with
knowledge to possibly correct course and be as realistic as possible in the
next 5 - 10+ years out.

------
vkaku
I have mixed feelings about this one, having seen their Capital G investment
portfolios before. Let's hope they actually make an impact with this one.

Now let's begin with an analysis: This is the only company in their portfolio
doing anything very relevant to helping India: [https://ayefin.com/our-
products/](https://ayefin.com/our-products/) The rest are profitable companies
- but not like helping Indian economies or anything serving a very large
amount of people. It's a micro finance model, very helpful to India (helping
businessmen and farmers avoid some terrible loan sharks), however it's a
business, not a charity.

Now let's talk motivations. FB recently invested in Jio, and I'm quite sure
this was their most successful investment, after the 'Free Basics' idea fell
through and all people protested against OTT services being subsidized and the
idea of net neutrality. Now, it is well known that if you control the wire,
you control the internet. You control the relevance of a website, it's
advertising potential and finally, it's net revenue.

FB may have gotten some sweet insider deal from Jio, so Google may now be
running helter-skelter to not become the loser in the big picture. Unless
Sundar Pitchai got a boost of Indian patriotism and decided to help India,
like shown in some recent movies (highly doubt it).

I mean, if they had already done something to boost small startups and create
value for India, they had a 12+ year lead, lots of people - and they could
have done something. But they did not. Maybe now they'll try to join forces
with some telco (Airtel/Vodafone) or something, who knows.

I doubt that kind of money will ever help regular Indians become better or
enhance their quality of life. Unless they turned a new leaf, let's hope so.

 _End Rant_

------
quyleanh
Hope India is not the second China, where they are invested and destroyed when
being strong because of threatening America's position.

~~~
fiblye
India is generally more culturally and politically similar to the west than
China. Unless they decide to embark on some unexpected imperialist conquest, I
don’t think they’ll have such an active movement to divest from them in the
future.

~~~
totalZero
India is so culturally dissimilar to the USA that it's almost laughable to
suggest that they are similar. I'm not trying to be adversarial; I just don't
see any logical basis -- aside from a few years of anglophone rule -- for your
premise.

~~~
mikkelam
OP said more similar as opposed to "completely similar" which you are
implying.

India definitely is more of a western country when compared to China

~~~
vishnugupta
For the context —- the framework to rule India was constructed by the British.
While it’s easy to focus on the political structure, it should be noted that
the day to day work is carried out by the bureaucratic apparatus, which was
put in place by the British.

Institutions such as civil services, education framework, public works
department, court, corporate laws, penal code etc are all from the British
era, carried forward post independence with minimal change if at all.

It is this bureaucratic structure that makes India work and any work needs to
make it’s way through this to get implemented. Whatever politicians promise is
largely irrelevant, by and large because they’ve been known to get lost in
this labyrinth of bureaucracy.

The Indian version of British comedy “Yes Minister” was quite popular in
India, for a good reason as Indian could relate to it .

So yes, Indian ruling structure is definitely closer to “West” than to China.
But we could be more specific and say it’s close to British, because they were
the ones who put it in place to begin with.

------
thecleaner
This is just a PR announcement with no specific timeline or even a plan.

------
sizzle
Between Apple and Google heavily investing in Indian facilities , I wonder if
this is going to actually lead to physically outsourcing our jobs for real

~~~
ipnon
What is different about this situation than previous situations? The history
of claiming high tech software engineering will soon outsource itself to India
is long.

~~~
sizzle
The opportunity to be first to market to establish custom hardware fabs and
house H1-b talent in new headquarters blocked by current political leadership
from immigrating here from India and opportunity to wrestle away control from
Shenzhen and China and establish and control their own supply chain.

------
LoSboccacc
> Investments will focus on four areas

suddenly, dozens upon dozens of artificial intelligence startup that aims at
better health trough translating nutritional information of produce into all
the relevant languages and teach deep-learning improved version of traditional
dishes to meet growing population need using local scooter forces to deliver
fresh produce daily at people offices

------
cryptica
Maybe I should move to India. I heard so many success stories from there. I
think Australia, Europe and US are on the decline. In Australia and Europe,
raising in $20K+ of investment is basically impossible no matter how good you
are or how much traction your product has... and you have to compete with well
funded startups from other countries.

------
scared2
> Why not invest in the US and the black community?

Because the CEO is Indian.

------
zolosa
The $10B would be invested in a period of 5-7 years. With lot of tech
investment coming in I guess there is bound to be tech explosion in Indian IT

------
curation
The entities that control the biosphere no longer need the Western world to
survive.

------
motteboss
I think the perspective to think is Google is investing despite perceived
‘protectionism’.

------
known
With $10 billion investment you can claim Delhi throne; Just saying...

------
ilaksh
I wonder if this is a response to the recent $1 billion Foxconn investment.

------
bawana
It seems this is how big tech is responding to the VISA lockdown by Trump and
co. They will simply leave. They already moved a lot of capital abroad to
avoid US taxes. Instead of bringing Indians here, they will go there. The
fundamental problem is that large multinationals are playing governments off
against each other. Trying to get bigger concessions for the promise of jobs.
Ultimately, the working people will suffer the burden of externalities dumped
on their communities (pollution, overcrowding, crime, shortages,etc) The
multinationals will harvest profits while the local governments are made to
look ineffective, corrupt, and inefficient because of these problems.

------
Fiveplus
What an exceptional dumpster fire of a thread. Very very sub-standard by
HackerNews standards. I'm dissapointed in the lack of moderation in this one.

------
jaspergilley
The Google Belt and Road Initiative

------
amai
China is not a democracy anymore.

~~~
kanox
?????

China has never been a democracy.

~~~
amai
Of course not. But a lot of people thought it might become one, if they just
investing heavily in it and spur a lot of economic growth. But the idea that
with more economic growth you generate a democratic change is just wrong. If
that would be the case Saudi-Arabia would be the most democratic country in
the world. The opposite is the case. Economic growth just stabilises a regime.
So the hope that China will ever become a democracy died in the last years. It
is better to invest in countries which are already democratic like India.

------
sunseb
Why not invest in the US and the black community?

~~~
altgoogler
(Disclaimer - am Googler; these opinions are my own)

It's not an either or decision. One can do both.

[https://blog.google/inside-google/company-
announcements/comm...](https://blog.google/inside-google/company-
announcements/commitments-racial-equity/)

~~~
throwawaybab323
lol what this is just 175 million dollar charity donation its not a 10b+
project to guarantee jobs to blacks.

------
zwaps
Off Topic: That website has no obvious opt-out option for EU users, just some
dark pattern pop-up that also breaks the browser's "back" functionality.

If anyone here works at techcrunch, please feel adequately ashamed about this.
Thanks.

~~~
crazygringo
"Please don't complain about website formatting, back-button breakage, and
similar annoyances. They're too common to be interesting. Exception: when the
author is present. Then friendly feedback might be helpful."

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
kjaftaedi
Google has been funneling around 20 billion dollars yearly through Bermuda to
evade taxes using the infamous 'irish double sandwich'.

Pressure from the US and EU is finally forcing Ireland to change their laws.

Google is in a situation when they have money that they need to figure out a
plan for since they can't do as much tax evasion as they previously were
permitted to.

[https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/01/02/google-to-end-
bermu...](https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/01/02/google-to-end-bermuda-tax-
scheme/)

~~~
flippedbit
Tax minimization is a form of tax avoidance rather than tax evasion (Not
saying it’s good, rather just that google weren’t breaking any laws).

~~~
poiuytrewqa
There's no such a tax avoidance rule that is allowed and tax evasion is not.
Also avoid and evade are similar term.

Avoid > keep away from or stop oneself from doing

Evade > escape or avoid (someone or something), especially by guile or
trickery.

This is the reason why many US tech companies got fined in Europe (Apple and
Google are one of them)

P.S. can someone explain why I get down votes for something factual? This
forum is ridiculous at times

~~~
wenc
> Also avoid and evade are similar term. > P.S. can someone explain why I get
> down votes for something factual? This forum is ridiculous at times

"Tax avoidance" and "tax evasion" are technical terms in accounting with very
specific definitions and entailments, and the difference isn't just in the
English words. Most accounting textbooks and courses cover this.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion)

Even in Europe, this technical difference is recognized, but with one catch:
the EU has enacted a counter- _avoidance_ directive (ATAD, Jan 2019) -
_evasion_ is always illegal. This is not the case in most places around the
world.

Infographic:

[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/201...](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/20160530STO29669/corporate-
taxation-the-fight-against-tax-avoidance)

Fiscal vocabulary:

[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/201...](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/economy/20150529STO61068/tax-
avoidance-vs-tax-evasion-fiscal-vocabulary-made-easy)

Finally, the HN guidelines provide good tips on how comment productively. (see
the In Comments section) This helps us learn from each other's experiences.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
poiuytrewqa
So if you focus on my first sentence maybe you can understand what do I mean.

> There's no such a tax avoidance rule that is allowed and tax evasion is not.

As I've said in many European countries both avoidance and evasion are illegal
and my reply was about that since the OP implied that avoidance is a good
thing while evasion is not. I let you read the other replies in this thread
for the link that prove the charges to Google in Europe as I'm tired to post
it.

P.S. Europe is not one country as is US and we don't have a federal state.
Again, as I've stated many times, many European countries had this rules way
before they were standardized at European level as testified by the fines that
Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook had got in some European countries for tax
avoidance.

Hope this clarifies and thanks for your link I gonna study that.

------
mk000v
OMG! Its True?

------
mango_indian
Any idea on the split, what is 10 billion going to, devlopers? Apps? Infra?,
What vague shit is this ecosystem..

~~~
sbmthakur
The entire amount is not being invested in one go. It will be invested in the
next 5-7 years. They probably don't have the department wise breakup at the
moment.

~~~
ashishkoujalgi
I would have guessed they do have a strategic raodmap laid out which involves
estimations on each of the spendings. It is just not public yet or wont be in
the coming months at least because the long-term strategies are designed to be
subjected to change. The actual investment scales may never be released to
public and one can only make assumptions based on a chnages in the ecosystem
of Indian infrastructures.

------
tanilama
This isn't too much of a surprise TBH.

Google's business is stagnating in US/EU. They need to find a better place to
grow.

------
m0zg
Is there even a way for Google to invest in a high-corruption country like
India without paying bribes (which would break US anti-bribery laws)? I'm
pretty sure such an investment would be impossible in e.g. Russia, where many
a hand needs to be greased before anything can happen.

~~~
bluGill
Yes. In fact I suspect they haven't paid bribes because the US will arrest
their CEO if they pay bribes. There are complex reasons exceptions, but in
general us companies don't pay bribes unless someone's life is directly
threatened. The same goes for UK companies, and I have no doubt all the other
major countries in Europe have similar laws.

One of my companies competors get caught bribing. After investigation it was
determined the company doesn't pay bribes and so this was a bad employee. The
fines otherwise would have shut them down. This was used to justify sending me
to anti bribery classes even though I don't do the type of work where I'm
likely to have opportunities to bribe someone (or so I think?). I wasn't told
who it was though.

~~~
m0zg
They all pay bribes one way or another though. It's impossible to do business
in the Third World otherwise. It's probably some sort of a lobbyist or a
"subsidiary" or something along those lines. I know it's hard for an American
to believe, but you just don't get to do business at all if you don't pay -
large part of why I live and do business in the United States where one
doesn't have to do it.

~~~
bluGill
Some countries. India is in question here. India has problems but they are
trying to clean up and that means that you both have a shot at not paying
bribes and a real risk if you do.

------
linuxftw
More corporate imperialism. This will only further the wealth gap between
domestic companies and companies owned/backed by google.

Is there an Indian-owned search engine? Displaced. Indian-owned news
aggregator? Displaced.

Nothing more than the modern day process of creating a banana republic. Rich
foreigners with massive amounts of capital can dominate the local business
climate, strong lobbying will cement their dominance, and local businesses
will have no chance to thrive.

~~~
itronitron
whereas in the US it's just rich _citizens_ with massive amounts of capital
dominating the local business climate

~~~
linuxftw
Cheap overseas labor subsidizes the rich here. The political class has crushed
small business by allowing large corporations to outsource their pollution and
side-step labor and safety laws.

If you want giant international corporations to run the world, this is the
way.

