
Low cost, all electric, benchtop injection molding machine - doodah
https://www.apsx.com/APSX-PIM-Desktop-Injection-Molding-Machine-s/110.htm
======
doodah
OP here. As someone who launched and fulfilled a small plastic gizmo on
Kickstarter and then sold them on Amazon and at local Makerfaires, this
equipment really spoke to me. Hence the submission. I 3D printed my product
initially and found market fit at $5/piece, which didn't leave me with a lot
of options to go into production and build a profitable business off it. 3D
printing them was unsustainable. Which is why I'm not currently selling them.

In order to produce them cost effectively, I'd need molds that cost several
times what this _entire_ system cost. And after that I'd have to order
thousands at a time to bring my cost down to say $1. I passed on that at the
time and considered producing them myself but this machine didn't exist at the
time. If it had, I might be making them now! There are other benchtop/low
volume molding systems but nothing comes as close to automatic production as
this one.

As for the company's site, this is fairly typical, but I'm sorry I didn't link
to a better page. It certainly didn't get my blood boiling though. Them
showing their price brings lots of good will. The CNC mill is also very
interesting, with 4 motors driving the Z axis simultaneously.

~~~
catherd
Not sure who you were talking to or how big your widget is, but if it's a
single piece that fits in a 15cm cube and doesn't use expensive tolerances or
shapes you're probably looking at somewhere between $4-$15k for a Chinese
injection mold. My company makes a few of these each month.

~~~
doodah
It would fit into that size cube and the part doesn't have crazy tolerances.
The shape complicates the mold significantly. Even after redesigning for
moldability, there would be pretty complicated parting lines and shut offs.

Your situation was pretty different... Your company buys them, I was buying as
an individual. You likely have a proven source, I didn't. It just wasn't a
risk I was willing to take at that point in my life.

~~~
catherd
Actually, we're a contract manufacturer based in Shenzhen and that's what we
sell them for.

You probably made the right call, though, even if you had found a perfect
supplier. Hardware projects funded by individuals almost always end in
heartache if they try to go big.

~~~
doodah
Cool! I'll keep you and your company in mind in the future.

At the time, I think I made the right call. Now with this machine being
available I'm reconsidering. The mold bases are pretty inexpensive too. I
could make the same investment I was going to make several years ago, but have
a machine if it doesn't work out rather than a hunk of precisely machined,
rather useless, steel on the other side of the world.

------
ricardobeat
I’m often appalled at the lack of decent information on a company’s product
page. This is a serious one. In case you’re wondering, the price is $12,500. I
still can’t find any info on how it works using 3D-printed molds, aren’t they
going to melt? How are they shaped under pressure?

~~~
King-Aaron
I couldn't imagine forking over $12k to a website that looks like a poorly
constructed phishing attempt

~~~
madengr
Web site looks fine, probably done by an engineer. Rather that than some
slicked up bullshit from some “startup”.

~~~
cr0sh
This is an interesting comment; first, we have something akin to

> Web site looks fine, probably done by an engineer..."that looks like a
> poorly constructed phishing attempt"

...an amalgam of your's and parent's (to your's) posts, and then your's:

> Rather that than some slicked up bullshit from some “startup”

So the question on my mind is, "What does a ecommerce website look like that
would satisfy both of your outlooks?"

That is, how does a designer/web developer create a website that won't look
too "slick startup BS", but yet won't look like "non-designer engineering
garbage"?

I'm not asking you for an answer, but posing this question for others to
possibly think about what that answer might be, because too often we encounter
one or the other option, and both turn potential customers away...

~~~
King-Aaron
The other comment below yours does illustrate it a bit better, I don't think a
sales site needs to be of a 'slick startup' style to provide a little more
trust about their product and service, rather just take _some_ care and
attention with their presentation.

Things like the lackluster approach to their imagery or the lack of thought
behind layout of elements in the footer/header etc to me doesn't instill the
notion that this company has taken any care or thought to their own
presentation, and because of that I wouldn't trust them to also take care with
their card processing or other infrastructure related to taking my payment.
You don't need a design degree or a deep understanding of the arts to make
something which doesn't look like a dog's breakfast :)

------
debatem1
Interesting, but it seems quite expensive for the hobby market-- particularly
since you also need the tooling to make the molds (or the cash to buy them).

If you're like me and that's too rich for your blood, you might look at the
Gingery-style injection molding machines:
[https://makezine.com/projects/make-41-tinkering-toys/diy-
inj...](https://makezine.com/projects/make-41-tinkering-toys/diy-injection-
molding/). They can be made quickly, work well, and are about 2% of the price,
but of course are much more limited.

~~~
chopin
But would you want one as a hobbyist? Injection molding shines when it comes
to mass production. For hobbyist purposes 3D printing seems a much better
alternative. There are numerous companies out there offering this in a higher
quality than FDM.

~~~
culturestate
It really depends how you define “hobbyist.” I’m a designer by training and I
(mostly) always designed purely digital products, but after moving to PM and
consulting for a couple IoT companies I’ve become very interested in
industrial design and design for manufacturing.

I’m especially intrigued by next-gen manufacturing (automated/lights out, 3D
metal, etc.), and would absolutely _love_ to have a small 5-axis CNC mill and
some kind of injection molding facility alongside the 3D printing capability I
already have for prototyping. Each tool enables a different range of options
for design and material.

This isn’t now and likely won’t be my profession any time soon, so I would
very much consider myself a hobbyist in this space.

~~~
thekhatribharat
Check out [https://www.pocketnc.com/](https://www.pocketnc.com/) \- desktop
5-axis CNC mills.

~~~
culturestate
I've looked at these, but if I went down this road it would take a fairly
large commitment to begin with (I'd have to rent a separate shop) so I'd
rather have something I could grow into, maybe a Datron C5 or similar.

------
ZiiS
Better link [https://www.apsx.com/desktop-injection-molding-
machine-p/aps...](https://www.apsx.com/desktop-injection-molding-
machine-p/apsx_pim.htm) Price: $12,500

~~~
proee
Also found a basic info video on the machine.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_l6PvF2Ju8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_l6PvF2Ju8)

~~~
deerpig
Great music. I want one.

~~~
ThePadawan
There is a deep rabbit hole to go down once you start watching shiny videos of
industrial machines. Once you watched one, your recommendations will be full
of them, including gems such as automatic boiled sausage unwrappers and
slicers:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNRfVfm8eFw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNRfVfm8eFw)

~~~
alvern
Or automatic pipe benders
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXWzIgfTuuQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXWzIgfTuuQ)

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tomcam
If I understand the horribly-organized website and YouTube video correctly,
you spend $12,500 for the machine, which can be plugged into a standard
outlet, and which creates plastic parts up to 6 inches in diameter. In order
to make the molds, you must also buy a CNC machine; theirs is $7000 (any CNC
would work). The plastics cost about $25 a pound.

~~~
alvern
The work envelope is 4.8" x 6.0" so realistically you'd only get a ~4.375"
diameter part geometry in there. You can't have hot plastic right up to the
edge, the pressure would blow out the mold wall. This is assuming steel or
aluminium molds. 3d printed molds would likely need even thicker walls to
account for the voids in printing.

The one benefit would be if you were using or developing generative design in
3d printed molds, this would be a great test bed.

source - I work in the injection molding, 3dp, and CNC industry.

~~~
tomcam
Man, this is why I love HN. One paragraph and you clarified questions raised
by the last 10 injection molding articles I’ve read. Thank you.

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syntaxing
Surprised and excited to see this on HN! I've been eyeing this machine for
work but the tough part is designing a good mold. A simple two part mold is
relatively easy with today CAD tools but it still takes some time to design if
you are printing multiple pieces in one shot. If you want something for home,
you're probably better off with a "drill press" injection molding machine [1].
It will run you less than $1K but you will need to do some post processing
work.

[1]
[https://www.techkits.com/products/model-20a/](https://www.techkits.com/products/model-20a/)

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Nice. That machine looks pretty easy to DIY with an arbor press and a
temperature controlled melter for the plastic.

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utopcell
Weird economics for this one. They claim to produce one piece of plastic every
60 seconds. Probably with post-processing, this translates to a part per 2
minutes, or 240 per day at most. In this low volume, you'd need to be selling
high-value products to make economic sense. But then, if you have the budget
for more than a few dollars per plastic, why wouldn't you go for a 3D printing
service like Shapeways, or low volume molds, like ProtoMold ?

~~~
gnode
> Probably with post-processing, this translates to a part per 2 minutes

Is this not something which can happen in parallel on a production line?

