
Ask HN: Time to change my job? - dldlstn
I work at a startup in SF, and it&#x27;s been almost three years. I like this company and like what I&#x27;m doing but my manager often makes me frustrated.<p>Reasons:
- He has some temper, whenever I do mistake often yells at me saying &#x27;why is that&#x27;, instead he could give me clear reason that what I&#x27;ve done is wrong where I can learn in positive way. He is very talented but his management just don&#x27;t fit to me.
- Often IM me in the middle of the night or weekend for job request.
- Not fun at all, all he does is work so nothing to talk about + doesn&#x27;t drink beer or coffee at all.<p>I&#x27;m trying to stay till this Winter for stock options but these kind of frustration happens too often, makes me want to quit.<p>This is my first job, so I don&#x27;t have experience quitting or changing my job.
======
johns
A couple things:

\- Every job will have some level of frustration, so don't expect changing
jobs to completely remove that from your life. That said...

\- It sounds like your expectations don't meet that of your employer. If you
meet to talk it over and it doesn't seem like it will get better, then you
should probably start looking.

\- Staying for stock options is almost never worth it unless you have a
significant chunk and you're 100% convinced there will be a positive outcome.
Since you're not a founder, it's highly unlikely they're worth staying for.

\- If you choose to look around, be professional. Interview as much as
possible before or after normal working hours and make sure to give two weeks
notice once you take another position.

~~~
azth
> Staying for stock options is almost never worth it unless you have a
> significant chunk and you're 100% convinced there will be a positive
> outcome. Since you're not a founder, it's highly unlikely they're worth
> staying for.

Out of curiosity, what constitutes "a significant chunk"? Furthermore, what
falls under positive outcome, other than being acquired? Does becoming self-
sufficient count?

~~~
UK-AL
90% of business stay small. What's the point in owning illiquid shares? You
might get small dividends maybe?

------
mchannon
Probably time to start freshening up your resume, LinkedIn and Dice accounts,
and looking around. Nothing makes it easier to find a new job than still
having an existing one. Seeing how green the grass is somewhere else may add a
lot of perspective to either how content or dissatisfied you really are where
you are now. You may also find you're eligible for a 50+% pay raise by
bailing- the odds of getting pay raises of that magnitude at existing
positions is near nil, which is why the bay area has such rampant turnover and
poaching.

As to the stock options, calculate what they're worth to you, factoring in:

X: Odds of you being able to convert them to cash someday through a company
liquidity event such as an acquisition (this often doesn't ever happen)

Y: Odds of management not finding a way to fire you the day before they start
to vest or do other shady things to deprive you of their value (additional
stock issuances that dilute you, etc.)

Z: How much they are likely to be worth if only good things happen (your
percentage ownership multiplied by market cap)

X * Y * Z = Future Value F. Using an annual interest rate of 5% and number of
years until exit N, Present Value P = F ÷ (1.05)^N.

You may find after running those numbers that you're considering staying on
for a net present value P of a few thousand dollars. Little reason to stay if
that's what's keeping you on.

The numbers seldom lead away from a good decision.

------
keithjia
Don't ever quit something simply because you are getting pushed around. Fight
back and quit on your own terms. Don't be a wimp, because nobody likes to hire
a wimp.

This will happen everywhere, you can't just run. Eventually, you will run out
of places to hide.

1) Always own up to your mistakes and find the common pattern and be ready to
justify your decisions. Write some damn tests. 2) Yell back at him, get mad,
show your passion. I am assuming you are not stupid, so there must have been
some decision making process that led you to what you did. SCREAM those
reasons at him, I mean it. Confront this guy!

Don't quit over a bully. Quit because you have better gig or are tired of the
company in general.

------
frankcaron
At this stage in your career, don't quit a job until you can line another job
up. That said, if you can line another up that progresses your career, don't
hesitate to quit.

As the old saying goes, you have to look out for #1 (you): no one else is
going to in the working world.

While I'm all for moving on and up, though, when your career is just
beginning, gaps between jobs don't look great, even if you have a good story
for why they exist. Thus, don't leave until you have a new place to go.

And remember another age-old saying: "the grass is always greener..."

------
tehwebguy
How long have you been frustrated?

That is, when you decided to make this post was it in response to a few weeks
or months of frustration? Or was it like one day you realized that you haven't
been happy with your job for what seems like a long time (6 months, a year,
longer)?

------
rdouble
Most startup jobs in SF have similar management styles and work demands. The
main reason to change is to make more money and/or work on a cooler project.
The weird managers, midnight IMs and weekend work requests never go away.

------
ilaksh
Almost impossible to find a boss who doesn't bother you. There are certainly
better jobs out there for you.. but ultimately I think the solution is to work
for yourself.

------
davefp
Have you tried talking to him?

------
cpursley
Not a beer drinker? Drop him yesterday.

