
Would you work with micromanaging boss, no salary, and all your work thrown away? - gaika
http://blog.shlang.com/post/38977434/would-you-work-with-micromanaging-boss-no-salary-and
======
edw519
That's nothing. Look at the job I took:

lifetime exclusive contract, you can't work anywhere else, not even
moonlighting

$0 salary and no equity (you’re supposed to be compensated in satisfaction)

no benefits other than being told that "everything here is a benefit"

no possibility of promotion or raise, ever

no job description: just do what you’re told

no office of your own, in fact, nothing of your own, ever again

all work ever done for any other employer must be forgotten forever; it's
useless here

everything you do is wrong

everything the boss does is right

if you want to work on any personal projects, you have to make it appear that
it's really for the boss

micromanaging boss complains about everything every 7 minutes

strict hours: 24/7, always on call

lovely seating, but only for company

the work is boring and demeaning, like taking out the garbage and cutting the
grass

all your comfortable clothes get thrown away

you have to drive, even though the boss tells you where to go

you have to wear an employment symbol everywhere so that other prospective
employers know you're already employed

you can only go to hacker news when the boss is out...oh wait, hold on, Hi
Hon, you're home! I'm in here, on the internet, on diamonds.com...<alt-tab>
(bye)

~~~
nazgulnarsil
while amusing, I think that in this culture "marriage" has become synonymous
with "bad marriage" as evinced by the attitude of this post and the portrayal
of marriage in the media. Specifically, I think that too many marriages (and
relationships in general) involve a dominant/submissive relationship rather
than one based on equality. I think the media promotes this idea that either
you are in charge or they are with no room for something in between.

~~~
edw519
Oh lighten up. It's a joke for crying out loud.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
I know, and it is funny. Just couldn't resist getting my armchair sociology
pokes in. Bad Habit.

------
pavelludiq
And lets not forget the physical and psychical terror from your colleagues.
And the depression, apathy, and disgust with life. It was fun sometimes but
between 7 and 15 years of age, i was pretty miserable in school, and i was
bored because i knew everything and didn't find any challenges. But from the
bright side i can now live my life with out fear of oppression because i know
it and know that you shouldn't be afraid of it. The adult world is also full
of bullies and its nice to know that you were trained the hard way for dealing
with them.

~~~
tungstenfurnace
Yup. Bullying is one of the worst features of the abysmal society which exists
inside schools.

Plus the piece doesn't go very far in describing the micromanagement (that
would give away the punchline). What kind of boss tries to control what you
eat and what clothes you wear? Who demands you raise your hand before you can
go to the toilet?

More fundamentally, the job wasn't chosen and there was no interview. In other
words, it's slavery.

We don't see it because we were slaves ourselves for 12 years and therefore we
feel it must be right. Otherwise we'd be forced to conclude that lives are
being borrowed without permission.

~~~
pavelludiq
I'm not entirely against school, when i was 14 i changed schools and in my new
class there were mostly girls and a few nerds(you get to be there after two
exams) so it was pretty good. I actually enjoined and was exited. I started
learning literature, philosophy, history and was pretty good at that and it
was fun(i sort of did the "philosophical poetic teen who wears only black"
thing for a while) Well after i got in to programing it got really boring, so
thats my problem now, if i want to go to college i have to study
chemistry,biology, and a lot of other stuff which i might be interested in,
but are not anywhere near my favorite disciplines. So i would describe it more
like a waste of time after you get near enough to graduation. And i do think
kids should be forced in schools, they just have to have some choice and
control after a certain age.For me it was 14, but that differs so its
impossible to please everybody.

------
bayareaguy
_$0 salary and no equity (you’re supposed to be compensated in experience)_ \-
The experience is worth more than the market salary would pay for the work. In
many cases it leads to preferential social treatment and occasionally the
social connections you make on the job will turn out very valuable later.

 _no benefits other than vacation and sick time: no insurance, for example_ \-
However, depending on the quality of the employer, you may get access to
people and facilities of considerable value.

 _no possibility of promotion or raise, ever_ \- It's more like the opposite:
strong likelihood of automatic promotion regardless of merit.

 _no job description: just do what you’re told_ \- Not unlike a startup, where
your job description is meaningless. You do what needs to be done.

 _micromanaging boss asks about project status every hour_ \- That depends on
the boss and how well you've accomplished past projects.

 _strict hours, starting at 8:30AM sharp_ \- True but you often leave early.

 _if you’re late even a few minutes, your boss send you to her boss. rigid
workweek, but then you’re expected to work from home a ton. open-desk seating,
not even a cube, with a hard chair_ \- Those things vary considerably between
employers.

 _the work is boring and demeaning, like adding digits and copying text_ \-
That's not true. Often the employer will expect you to demonstrate your
creativity. Furthermore much of the boring work can be done in groups and you
often get plenty of breaks where you're free to use your time as you wish.

 _all your useless work gets thrown away_ \- As it should be. The useful stuff
will be saved. Depending on your employer and family situation you may get
rewarded for good work in ways that far exceed the market value.

 _if you want to use a computer, you can buy one or just scribble on paper_ \-
Again not so. In fact many employers provide computers even in situations when
they may not be necessary for the work.

 _no supplies room, either_ \- That depends on the employer.

 _my daughter can’t drive, so commute was complicated_ \- Generally speaking
these kinds of employers are often close to home and many provide
transportation. Also carpooling is frequent in this line of work.

 _can’t even put the job on your resume until you work there for a decade_ \-
This is backwards: it's good to put on your resume along with specific
accomplishments up until you've been there for a decade at which time it's
value is reduced.

~~~
radu_floricica
1\. So do many other "cv jobs", but they don't take more then a decade to do
it. 2\. Like in any other job. 3\. True. But automatic promotion doesn't make
one proud. 4\. Here it's the biggest difference. As an entrepreneur you're
training in being able to know what needs to be done. This teaches you the
opposite: everything is equally important just because you're told so 5\. Not
really. In any other job you have at least a few hours of independence. Not in
this one. 6\. True 7\. Not really, at least not he open-desk seating part. 8\.
Ha ha. Creativity... really. 9\. All work = useless work. No work is ever used
except for evaluation purposes. Ever. Ever. God, i'm depressed already. 10\.
Could be, haven't been employed in the field for a while. 11\. true 12\. true
13\. Most people have exactly the same in their resume, so its real value is
nil.

I'd like to elaborate a bit on the creativity part. Most school is a lot like
an assembly line - the cheapest way to teach thousands of children necessary
things. This is not bad, time and money constraints are real. But in this
framework you can't afford to encourage true creativity, simply because to be
creative you need: 1. a "space" in which to be creative and 2. not to be
evaluated by classic means. School environment provides neither.

~~~
bayareaguy
I'll grant that many schools (and workplaces) are run by people who take that
attitude towards creativity and I think the general lack of parental
involvement is the biggest cause. I know one teacher who quit the profession
when not a single parent cared about attending her second grade class
conference.

However there are some good schools out there that do value creativity. It's
unfortunate that parents can't or won't insist there be more of them.

------
subwindow
Equating education with work is kind of silly. I mean, being silly is
obviously the point of the post, but there's no need to be so morose about
school. Education is incredibly valuable, and receiving it for free is nothing
to sneeze at. In fact, millions of people pay tens of thousands of dollars a
year for it after they get done with the free stuff.

Plus, summer vacation is totally awesome.

~~~
KiwiNige
Maybe it's a coincidence that the best boss I've ever worked for was home
schooled, maybe it's not.

~~~
dkokelley
It's funny you mention that. I was home schooled, and now that I'm in college,
I find that it's less than I expected (plus I feel much more prepared than I
think I would had I gone to a 'traditional' school). Hopefully I'd make a good
boss, too.

We didn't have very rigid class hours, most material was self-taught
(especially in high school), and work and studies were done when practical,
when I made time for them, not when an arbitrary structure told me that it was
time to study this subject. For example: I found that I'm much more
mathematically adept later in the day, so I would do the next day's math
lesson the night before.

Another interesting thing to note is that I was not micromanaged, as is the
case in the article... come to think of it, maybe I'm not as prepared for 'the
real world' (corporate) as I thought. :)

~~~
apexauk
I'd find it very interesting to find out about anyone else's experiences
linking home-schooling and startups (or, what makes for an entrepreneurial
mindset..)

I was home-schooled till 11, when I entered school in a class a year ahead of
my age. that was 12 years ago, now i'm running a startup (our 2nd employee
starts next week)

I've been thankful to my mum ever since for spending the time with me when I
was younger - it definately gave me a head-start with learning and a different
perspective from many people. Anyone else have home-schooling experiences they
relate to entrepreneurship?

~~~
dkokelley
I agree about their being a good correlation between homeschooling and
entrepreneurship. It might be that homeschooling encourages independence and
initiative, or it might just be that the public school system is designed to
produce good employees.

I'm the oldest in a family of 6 - all home schooled. My brother and I both
have an entrepreneurial streak in us (my brother sold candy at the Jr. High
near our house after school to raise money for his X-Box fund. He raised
enough to buy it at 11, with no help from parents. He even bought the candy on
his own).

However my other brother is leaving for the Air Force Academy in a few days -
he wants to end up in politics somewhere. To me it seems like the military and
political careers are opposite to entrepreneurship. I guess we're not all the
same.

------
Harkins
I hear lots of seven-year-olds are accepting exciting opportunities to work
now in the garment industry.

------
maurycy
Not that funny if you realize that schools are institutions for indoctrination
and for imposing obedience.

------
alaskamiller
Like when I was 10 years old, I now sit in my designated area eagerly staring
at the clock until it's time to go.

------
rms
Funny, but too lightweight for #1

~~~
gaika
Do not think so, this is really important and sad. Taming of the wild animals
starts at school, and then we wonder why so few are growing up entrepreneurs?

~~~
rms
It is much, much easier to vote something up that says a simple profound truth
than anything complicated for many different reasons. It is bad when easy to
vote things dominate the homepage.

~~~
gaika
Ironic, aren't you the one who posted a flash game the other day and it made
to #1?

~~~
rms
;) I can only work within the system...

------
ph0rque
I believe the author is arguing against instructionism, and for
constructionism.

------
dmoney
> But millions of other seven-year-olds accepted identical offers.

Well played.

------
riklomas
I like the way open-desk seating is regarded as a bad thing, surely it's
better than being sat in a cube all day?

~~~
GrandMasterBirt
He should have mentioned: "Its an open desk area where talking to other
employees is highly discouraged"

------
condor
that is a pretty ridiculous offer . . . that's why I enrolled my 7 year old in
business school, and now that she has an mba the six-figure offers are rolling
in . . . with equity of course.

------
GrandMasterBirt
Hows about my new job:

$0 salary. In fact you spend money to work. Its a privilege. You can't quit.

You can't act on your frustrations or the government might intervene.

You have to deal with a lot of shit.

Its always noisy.

You need to get a second job. Usually the second job is a vacation from your
first job.

The only time you can go on vacation is when you get someone to take over for
you at your expense.

There are no sick days, if you are sick you have to come up with creative ways
to do the job and not get anyone at work sick. Also you have to work.

Sometimes you get the job. Sometimes the job is given to you, you can't
reject. The government ensures that you take the job whether you like it or
not.

You might be offered the position multiple times. See previous point.

There is an eventual payoff... But it is not guaranteed.

The only real up side is looking for the job is REALLY fun.

~~~
icky
> _The only real up side is looking for the job is REALLY fun._

... and you get compensated in experience. ;)

------
eyudkowsky
No.

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drios
heheh very funny!!!

------
sealedidentity
this isn't hacker news, it shouldn't even be here.

------
mynameishere
I wish we could see who voted on what so I could henceforth have no respect
for those people.

~~~
nadim
Not a bad idea. What if the front page was dynamically generated on a per user
basis depending on whose opinion you respected. After typing this I realize it
sounds similar to friendfeed. "A dynamic front page of people who you want to
listen to"

FWIW, I voted up on this article so you can stop listening to me.

~~~
byrneseyeview
Also sounds like [http://unqualified-
reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/uberfac...](http://unqualified-
reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/uberfact-ultimate-social-verifier.html)

