
Companies that help people vanish - durmonski
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200903-the-companies-that-help-people-vanish
======
duxup
The article isn't really clear on the mechanics of this.

Are they changing their names and starting over entirely?

Or are they just moving and the company helps them establish themselves in a
way where their name isn't likely to appear as easily and Japan has some mix
of legal / personal norms that allow this to happen / them to remain hidden?

~~~
Hamuko
Do other countries not have laws that allow people to remain hidden?

I remember this case from Finland. Police were asking for clues about a man
named Janne after he had been missing for a week and a half. Some days later
the police announced that they had been in contact with the man and that he
was alive. However, he did not want to have his current location revealed and
the police obeyed that.

"People in Finland have the right to disappear. If a person wants to remain
hidden, there's nothing the police can do about that" they said. The only
thing they were able to tell his family was that he was still alive.

~~~
kwhitefoot
> "People in Finland have the right to disappear.

Really? In most European countries there is a requirement to register your
home address with the state. See [https://www.norden.org/en/info-
norden/notifying-move-and-pop...](https://www.norden.org/en/info-
norden/notifying-move-and-population-registration-finland)

So you can hide your location from family but you do not have a general right
to hide from the state. The same applies in all the Nordic countries.

------
helsinkiandrew
BBC have been running some very bleak articles about japan recently. This was
from a few weeks ago (private agents that will seduce your wife/husband so you
can divorce them)

[https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200731-the-
saboteurs-...](https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200731-the-saboteurs-
you-can-hire-to-end-your-relationship)

~~~
smabie
When something doesn't make any sense, it's usually because of the government.
This would fall into that category.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Government is often a reflection of society.

------
namizaru
There are many valid reasons for yonige(night run away) or johatsu(literally
evaporation) in Japan, but there are pernicious side effects.

Loans and leases in Japan most often require a guarantor. If the primary loan
holder disappears, the guarantor is stuck having to repay the loan or pay out
the remainder of the lease agreement.

I personally know a family devastated when they found themselves on the hook
paying out a loan for a close friend they had known from childhood while
trying to build their own business.

~~~
oshea64bit
I've heard of a similar situation as well. It's a common saying here to never
become somebody's hoshonin (guarantor), no matter who it is you're helping
out.

~~~
HenryBemis
It's common saying everywhere.

If the person needs a guarantor, it means that they cannot afford the loan.

Even if they have the best of intentions, life may happen (people die before
their time for many reasons), they can get caught up with the wrong crowd and
fall out of (financial) grace, a bad partner can get them to "drop this life
and move away" (ignoring obligations), and you can end with a damaging debt.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
In Japan you need guarantors even for mundane things like renting an
apartment. This is particularly difficult for immigrants if they don't know
anybody and their employer won't sponsor them.

~~~
brentm
That seems excessively prohibitive to personal growth.

~~~
xenonite
On the other hand it makes lending easier.

------
dvduval
I love to get a quote on the cost of disappearing. Maybe I'm not ready yet but
it would be nice to hear my options so that I would have a clear plan should
that option ever become necessary. Haha

~~~
fho
Don't do it ... there is another article floating around the internets about a
guy who specializes in finding people who disappear. And apparently his
successrate is well above 80% (from memory). Most people are just not that
great at leaving their live behind and will leave traces by calling family or
accessing old online accounts.

~~~
luckylion
Would you happen to have a link? Google has become terrible useless for me for
finding specific things based on few keywords.

~~~
aclimatt
I'm trying to find the link but I remember reading an article on HN about how
nigh impossible it is to fake your own death. Not sure if that was what the
parent was talking about. Here's one I found:

[https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/inside-the-world-of-
inve...](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/inside-the-world-of-
investigators-who-know-youve-faked-your-death)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20862618](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20862618)

~~~
srtjstjsj
There's a massive problem with false positive bias. If someone fakes their own
death successfully, no one will ever know

~~~
krageon
For this reason it's always funny to me when people say "criminals are always
caught in the end", "crime doesn't pay", etc. How would they know?

------
ponker
Is it just me, or does Japan have more of these subcultures like “jouhatsu”
and “hikikomori” simply because they give the behavior a name? There are
people who do this everywhere but it seems like it’s exoticized when Japanese.
Or are these extreme behaviors actually more common in Japan?

~~~
Cthulhu_
I'm sure it's (as you say) exoticized or named because it's Japan. I mean over
here we have similar things; we have shut-ins but we call them neckbeards,
hoarders, recluses or just "people in their parents basement"; we have people
that vanish but we've memed them with the "still waiting for dad to return
from the gas station for cigarettes 15 years ago", we have "friends for hire"
but they're called prostitutes or e-girls, and we have suicide but it's people
jumping off bridges instead of hanging themselves in a bamboo forest.

A lot of Japanese things are romanticized by using their Japanese monikers but
when you zoom out, it's the same problems, different setting.

~~~
viraptor
There's definitely a bit of nihonjin-ron / idea of Japanese uniqueness. But
some ideas can't be generalised that easily. For example prostitutes exist,
but these are different than friend / family rentals or maid cafes. (Even if
the concept on some level has the same roots) They seem to come from different
needs.

But I'd totally read a deep dive into similarities/differences between western
shut-ins and hokikomori. I don't understand differences here either.

------
thret
I feel like this should be more common. People kill themselves to escape their
lives, but they should vanish and start again instead.

~~~
koheripbal
The problem with that is that you still bring yourself with you. ...all the
guilt, the addiction, the wasted years, the mental illness, the anger issues.
Most people would end up back where they started.

...maybe if there was a way to reset your brain in the process.

~~~
drdeadringer
"No matter where you go, there you are."

The intent of telling me this when I was impressionable was the opposite of
what I received. I understand that "you bring your problems with you", but at
the time I received "don't bother travelling because it's the same shit in a
different place". So I've not been the globe-trotter my sibling has been.
Night and Day.

The only regret here is that the original intent got flipped from the giving
to the receiving. Be careful.

------
jelliclesfarm
This sounds something straight out of a Murakami novel!

------
kwhitefoot
Reminds me of Reggie Perrin. See The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin:
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/fallandriseofreginaldperrin/inde...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/fallandriseofreginaldperrin/index.shtml)

------
hajiquickvanish
Call Ed at Best Quality Vacuum. (505) 842-4205.

5 stars, would use again.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Ask for a dust filter for a Hoover Max Extract® Pressure Pro™ Model 60.

~~~
DonHopkins
I had one of those, but it cost millions of dollars to replace the dust
filters. It's almost as bad a scam as Epson ink.

------
pixxel
> [in Japan] Privacy is fiercely protected: missing people can freely withdraw
> money from ATMs without being flagged, and their family members can’t access
> security videos that might have captured their loved one on the run.

In general, does this fiercely protected privacy culture extend to online? No
surveillance capitalism in Japan?

~~~
GuB-42
It doesn't look like there is anything preventing data collection here. Banks
will obviously know you are withdrawing money, and Google will know if you are
logged into your account.

The big thing is that the legal system won't help you if you want to track
someone. You can't file a missing person report and expect police to
investigate and private companies to hand you data.

~~~
srtjstjsj
Is there a country where this is NOT true?

If you file a lawsuit against someone in Japan, is it really true that they
can't be served or subpoenaed?

------
shadowprofile77
I wonder how techniques like these will far in our increasingly present (but
still not universal) world of tying one's identity to their biometric details,
especially their face in not just formal ID documents but also corporate
digital visual registries (Facebook being just one example)

------
inopinatus
Ensure the surface is clean and dry; sand it smooth with 100 grain paper, or
300 if stained. Apply the first two thin coats using a natural brush (or
synthetic for water based varnishes), following the grain of the wood. “Tip
off” to improve and even the finish whilst the surface is still wet. Leave for
a day, then sand lightly and evenly with 350 grain paper before applying an
additional coat. Allow several weeks for full curing before use.

For best results, work in a dust, fibre, and debris-free low humidity space
with fume extraction as ventilation rather than open windows.

------
xenospn
Wow. Just like Breaking Bad. I wonder if something like this is possible in
the US?

~~~
beardog
Indeed it is. [https://inteltechniques.com](https://inteltechniques.com) has a
podcast on OSINT/privacy run by a guy who performs this service to make people
disappear as best as possible (within realm of the law). His clients are
mainly celebs, execs and domestic abuse victims.

It is very difficult and expensive, as for full protection you need to
register LLCs and legal trusts for many things like home ownership.
Additionally because we live in a surveillance capitalism dystopia, one little
mistake can ruin everything and cause you to start over.

~~~
helsinkiandrew
Unless you're going to live as a near hermit or change country I wonder how
effective all of this is in the long run without plastic surgery.

If you wander in front of someone taking a photo that ends up on facebook, or
socialise with people who post things on social media or someone from your
home town sees you and mentions it to someone else. I think I'd always be
looking over my shoulder

~~~
yourapostasy
You are correct. Unless you pay for everything in cash or through a company
front, it is extremely difficult to stay off the identity grid. Changing
countries raises the bar, changing to a non-OECD nation raises it further, but
you give up certain benefits of access to an advanced tech tree in exchange.

In the US I helped a female relative obscure her trail somewhat from a stalker
when she sold her residence and moved states. She could not get classified
under the domestic violence identity protection program of her state until she
suffered physical abuse of some kind recorded by the police. There was "only"
police report of the stalker arriving outside her front door in a doorman-
guarded complex, with security footage of him banging on her door for ~10
hours. Twice (after that, the complex security knew him by sight and threw him
out the next three times before he gave up). So be aware that most of these
types of programs across the US are reactive and not proactive.

With enough money and patience, a lot of everyday people can be eventually
found unless they submerge themselves into a highly-insular community.
However, above a certain threshhold of money and effort, I believe the
advantage accrues to the hider instead of the seeker, even with nation-state
resources at the seeker's fingertips. I believe it is far more time-efficient
for the seeker to burrow their way into the hider's network of contacts.

------
epse
The page is currently unavailable. Would anyone know of a mirror?

~~~
agumonkey
two;

\- [https://archive.is/EOdnb](https://archive.is/EOdnb)

\-
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200907025727/https://www.bbc.c...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200907025727/https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200903-the-
companies-that-help-people-vanish)

------
lgregg
I know the French Foreign Legion used to/may still give out passports and many
regular army and SS troops from Nazi Germany took this up as a way to restart
their lives. For all intents and purposes, this could work too.

