
iMac Pro review: Hard to upgrade, but holy Jony Ive it’s fast - smacktoward
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/02/imac-pro-review-not-a-consumer-machine-but-not-quite-perfect-for-pros-either/
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yoodenvranx
What really annoys me about Apple and what shows up again in this review: In
each keynote the highlight how "green" they are and how much they care about
the environment.

But if they really would care about waste reduction and the environment then
they would have switched over to USB-C for their phones (one truly universal
type of cable = less waste), they would have kept the headphone jack
(bluetooth earphones are a waste of precious resources), and they would
produce laptops and desktops which are serviceable and upgradable by the user.
Every single one of their products is made for "use it two years, throw it
away when it breaks and buy a new one". Unfortunately other companies aren't
much better, e.g. Microsofts Surface laptops which are impossible to repair.

~~~
askafriend
On the contrary, my Apple computers have lasted longer and have been more
reliable than any other computers I've ever used.

While my dad gets a new PC laptop seemingly every 2 years, my Macbooks last
4-5 years easily while taking a whole lot of abuse.

And since Apple products tend to hold their value really well, there's a
thriving second-hand economy for these products that doesn't really exist for
other manufactures. So older products get re-used by people looking for
cheaper Macs or iPhones or whatever.

One last point: no one really upgrades computers anymore, especially not
laptops. Desktop computers are rare in the home now, and the people who are
really spending a lot of effort into maintaining their desktop rigs are gamers
and video professionals. Upgrading becomes a moot point when a system lasts as
long as 5 years. By that time, there is far newer technology and upgrading is
no longer worth it or feasible (newer motherboard types, incompatible RAM
pins, etc).

The best way to do good for the environment is to create a reliable product
with sustainable materials that serves it's purpose for as long as possible
and then continues to deliver value through re-use. That's exactly what
they're doing and it's the smart way to do it - it becomes a natural part of
the product lifecycle with no additional effort required from the customer.

Yes Apple do highlight how "green" they are, and you can read their annual
reports and decide for yourself if it's a deserved point of pride or not for
them: [https://www.apple.com/environment/](https://www.apple.com/environment/)

I will say they are probably one of the more transparent manufacturers in the
industry, with initiatives ranging from carbon neutral office buildings down
to the material sciences level in their products.

~~~
qplex
>The best way to do good for the environment is to create a reliable product
with sustainable materials that serves it's purpose for as long as possible
and then continues to deliver value through re-use. >That's exactly what
they're doing

No.

Only a couple of days ago there was a NY Times article posted here on how the
iPad has become obsolete just because the software isn't being updated
anymore.

~~~
askafriend
The reason extremely old iOS devices (not just iPads) are not receiving OS
support any longer is because iOS 11 switched to 64-bit architecture (dropping
32-bit support) and all apps written going forward will be compiled for 64 bit
processor architectures.

Apple is industry leading in terms of software support for their hardware.
Which other manufacturer provides OS updates for 4+ years? Certainly not any
of the Android OEMs.

It's not as black and white as "it's supported" or "it's not supported".
There's a lot of context around certain decisions that gets filtered out of
articles like the one you're referring to.

~~~
qplex
For the end user it's black and white - can you run that app on your device or
not?

Android continues to run everything also on a 32-bit CPU and iOS does not.

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tmikaeld
I was curious so i did the OpenCL benchmark on my 1080 Ti in a hackintosh.

iMac Pro = 158 808

1080 Ti = 213 913

Reference: [https://imgur.com/wfU94cb](https://imgur.com/wfU94cb)

~~~
packetslave
Literally nobody who's in the target audience for the iMac Pro (photographers,
video editors, professional musicians, etc.) would ever consider using a
hackintosh. If your paycheck depends on your tech, you want stability and
supportability.

~~~
clay_the_ripper
Agreed. As a technically savvy person who knows nothing about hackintoshes the
opportunity cost of researching, learning, buying, setting up, and dealing
with upgrades far outweighs the potential savings of, what? Maybe 1-2k? In
terms of professional work, 1-2k is nothing for peace of mind and ease of use.

~~~
tmikaeld
I'd not recommend it if you don't have patience and time to spend.

I didn't build mine to save money, I did it because it's fun to learn and
test.

I tried the beta of many Windows even the Georgia and longhorn ones. It was a
lot more frustrating than this

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dmitriid
Apple:

> So we ran into heat sink problems with MacPro. Also, people wanted a pro
> machine to be extensible and upgradeable.

> We learned from our mistakes. We give you the non-upgradable non-extensible
> iMac Pro that is also a heat sink problem.

[1][2]

Apple has completely dropped the ball on the pro market. Not only did the
completely missed the mark with the "trashcan" MacPro (in all respects: the
pros didn't want it, Apple themselves couldn't iterate and improve on the
design), but they have all but abandoned anything pro-related:

\- MacOS stagnates.

\- MacBook "Pro" is not really a pro machine [2]

\- iMac Pro is a bone thrown to the crowds to wow and please, and it has
"trashcan" Mac Pro written all over it

\- Thanks to the USB-c SNAFU you can't even connect external monitors to
Macbook "Pro"s reliably (keeping the native color range and resolution)

And there are multiple other issues big and small. To that end, Ars Technica's
"Bad" and "Ugly" conclusions are quite damning.

\----

[1] Quoting myself,
[https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/940673994126249987](https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/940673994126249987)

[2] Mac Pro's issues: [https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-
pro-fai...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-failure-
admission)

[3] "The Best Laptop Ever Made" [https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-
ever](https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever) and "Fixing the MacBook
Pro" [https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-
pro](https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro)

~~~
threeseed
1\. MacOSX has not been stagnating. The focus has just been on behind the
scenes improvements e.g. exclusive 64-bit, Metal 2, APFS and I am very glad
this is the case. Apple needs a lot more of this.

2\. MacBook Pro definitely has issues (keyboard) but in every other respect it
is a pro machine. If you can provide an alternative I would be thrilled to
know about it. And if "pro" = "lots of ports" well frankly I have standardised
on WiFi, BT and USB-C for all my devices and so I haven't missed any of them.

3\. iMac Pro is not designed for crowds. And it isn't a replacement for the
Mac Pro which is coming this year.

4\. I connect dual monitors to my MacBook Pro every single day and have never
had issues with the color gamut or resolution changing.

~~~
addicted
1\. OSX has not been stagnating. It’s been regressing. Design patterns that
used to be encouraged by Apple led to first party and third party apps that
were small, focused, inter-operated with other apps and were extremely
scriptable. All this was supported by window handling that made it easy to
support a workflow involving multiple apps. The new design patterns encourage
apps that are to be used full screen, have low visual density, and does not
encourage inter-app communication or scripting at all, and with the sandbox
actively discouraged it.

Even Gruber has been pointing out how Apple is encouraging apps that eschew
all the advantages that OSX has over iOS to the point that it’s much better
for devs to simply build web apps (his focus is more on the sandbox though so
that’s another way OSX has regressed).

[https://daringfireball.net/2018/02/non_native_apps_threat_to...](https://daringfireball.net/2018/02/non_native_apps_threat_to_mac)

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Keyframe
A dream would be cpu and build quality like this, nvidia 1080Ti or better
(when it comes out) crossed with Surface Studio. At least for graphics work.

~~~
muninn_
Agreed, though we will all need to pray that GPU costs come down - I saw 1080s
on Amazon going for $1400 the other day, granted it was just a spot check and
I’m sure it’s cheaper elsewhere.

------
Corrado
I think the iMac Pro is just another validation that the latest MacBook Pro
machines are not "Pro" at all. Where is the touch keyboard for the iMac Pro?
Why does the iMac Pro have an SD Card slot? If those are indeed "Pro"
features, why then were they changed on the MacBook Pro?

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saagarjha
> Note also that the iMac Pro actually has two SSDs working together,
> controlled by the T2 chip. It's an unusual solution, but it works well.

Is this like a RAID0 setup, or something else?

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kire456
It is a nitpick for sure, but I am still amazed that a machine like this,
obviously designed to be the best and look (and cost) the part, comes with a
measly 1 year warranty out of the box. It takes away from the feeling that
Apple has confidence in the product, imo.

For reference, European regulations will force them to upgrade that for free
to at least 2 years, which is deemed a 'normal life time'.

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juststeve
$9599 is $12117.97 in AUD. Impressive

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Shivetya
do note that Microcenter has been selling the base config at $1000 for some
time now. Originally people thought to be a one off sale but it keeps coming
back. Going out on a limb here to say I doubt Microcenter is doing this
without Apple's blessing or assistance on pricing.

A "equal" in numbers iMac can go over three thousand making the jump not that
much more.

barefeats.com has some great eGPU and other comparison testing with this
machine

~~~
Zanni
Important caveats on the Microcenter pricing: that's $1,000 OFF, not $1,000
total. And that price is only available for in-person pickup and limited to
one per household. Nice if you can take advantage of it, but not for everyone.

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HugoDaniel
My ODROID is also very fast

