
The Plus in Google Plus? It’s Mostly for Google - calvinlough
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/technology/the-plus-in-google-plus-its-mostly-for-google.html?hp&_r=0
======
diydsp
I just fired up plus.google.com again.

50% of the space is "ADD PEOPLE." The other 50% of the space is "DO YOU KNOW
THESE PEOPLE."

Where is the V-A-L-U-E ?

Under the fold at the bottom is "Continue to Google+" Oh, I wasn't there
already? That was just the interrogation before Google+ begins?

I continue. Long load time. First thing that appears in 50% of the page is a
column of the same people from the previous page. "YOU MAY KNOW." I can't
close that window, but I can click "View more." I can also click X on an
individual, but each time I do, someone even more remote appears... seriously,
really weird foreign names. I start to feel bad for laughing at some of these
funny-sounding names.

So, over on the left, ah! A post from my friend with the title "get that art."
I look at the preview: It's a thumbnail of a thumbnail with the word "site"
above it. Probably the site designer's fault...

But what am I really doing here? There is no 'hook.' There is no reason to be
here, there is nothing compelling me. There is nothing I can DO, nothing I can
move around, paint, color, amplify, organize. And about these borders: fat,
fat borders around everything. So much empty, white space between rectangles.
Scrolling down a bit, I see a banner "Follow things you love," with buttons
for "Fashion" and "Travel." This is like Yahoo in 1997. How do they "know so
much about me" that they think I like Fashion and Travel?

Then, eventually, I reach stuff that's just like facebook: my friend's kid
eating a donut. another friend talking about cleaning hairballs in the drain
of his shower.

Ok, there's a link I'd like to send to my friend, so I'm going over to
facebook an give it to him.

Aren't computers and the internet capable of being fun and interesting or
informative and useful? I'll tell you, one facebook is enough. I don't need
two of them with friends reposting their shrill political screeds from their
personal internet silos. I want to do something useful and valuable with my
time on this planet. As a matter of fact, I think trying google+ has made me
just want to go for a nice walk! It's a beautiful day outside! Yep, standing
up now to put on clothes, open the windows and stumble around the block in the
ice and snow!

~~~
jkn
I fire up my G+ stream and get:

A post by Timothy Gowers about Mobius strips and Valentine's Day:
[https://plus.google.com/103703080789076472131/posts/gYmEcGuN...](https://plus.google.com/103703080789076472131/posts/gYmEcGuN8xx)

A repost by Michael Chui with an animation of a double star + planet system
showing chaos:
[https://plus.google.com/113476531580617567600/posts/Y3yiBojn...](https://plus.google.com/113476531580617567600/posts/Y3yiBojnef6)

A post by an acquaintance about local politics with interesting infographics.

A post from Rajini Rao titled "An Academic Valentine: The Science Behind
Flower Color":
[https://plus.google.com/114601143134471609087/posts/7mWzModf...](https://plus.google.com/114601143134471609087/posts/7mWzModf9gn)

A post by David Brin on an interesting sci-fi TV series I hadn't heard of:
[https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts/CJFcZkUf...](https://plus.google.com/116665417191671711571/posts/CJFcZkUfKen)

A report from Human Rights Watch on sectarian violence in the Central African
Republic:
[https://plus.google.com/113055770163061121890/posts/jYRxedAB...](https://plus.google.com/113055770163061121890/posts/jYRxedABgho)

A repost by Romain Guy about an open source live wallpaper for Android that
shows works of art:
[https://plus.google.com/109538161516040592207/posts/1zueVNE8...](https://plus.google.com/109538161516040592207/posts/1zueVNE8zMS)

A post from the EFF on the history of surveillance and the Black community:
[https://plus.google.com/113175636916099066477/posts/ZUoVA3u5...](https://plus.google.com/113175636916099066477/posts/ZUoVA3u5R7W)

There's quite some noise around those posts of course, but far less than on
Twitter, and the pictures make it easier for me to sift through it. I'm not a
fan of social networks but I like to check my G+ stream now and then when I'm
bored on the computer. I definitely don't use it as a Facebook replacement
(which I don't really use at all actually...).

~~~
coldtea
So like a ghettoized version of RSS?

Thank you, I'll have the open web anyday.

For the rest, I can use Facebook.

~~~
jkn
Indeed it does what RSS used to do for me. It also adds comments and pictures,
something RSS could also do depending on the reader. The real added value of
G+ compared to RSS is the original content: a lot of people in Open Source and
science, for example, use it as a blog platform. I do wish social networks
were less ghettoized, but as a publication medium it doesn't seem less open
than a blog to me. There are even tools to generate RSS feeds from G+ streams
I think.

------
r0h1n
IANAL, but "giving away" billions of dollars of prime ad space to entice
businesses to sign up for G+, how is that not predatory pricing? [0]

> The company has also pushed brands to join Plus, offering a powerful
> incentive in exchange — prime placement on the right-hand side of search
> results, with photos and promotional posts.

> “It is literally promotion that money can’t buy,” Mr. Elliott said. _“It is
> something that Google could make billions off of if they sell that space
> tomorrow, and they’re giving it away to try to get people onto the social
> platform.”_

[0] [http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-
an...](http://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-
laws/single-firm-conduct/predatory-or-below-cost)

~~~
eli
Isn't giving away services for free how nearly every consumer internet startup
works, at least until they figure out a business plan.

~~~
r0h1n
(a) Google isn't like "nearly every consumer startup". It is arguably the most
powerful Internet company in the world. Thus its actions must be viewed
differently.

(b) In this case Google is using its dominance in the search space (70-90% in
many markets) to push G+ on customers who may not normally have signed up for
it.

~~~
spacemanmatt
While it's true Google enjoys a near monopoly (maybe an actual monopoly, I'm
not intending to split that hair) but it's very important to make the
distinction between a natural monopoly and an illegal monopoly.

~~~
gress
The monopoly isn't illegal, but having one affects the legality of certain
competitive behaviors such as dumping.

------
habosa
This article goes out of its way to make Google+ look bad when it comes to
numbers.

"Plus has 29 million unique monthly users on its website and 41 million on
smartphones, with some users overlapping, compared with Facebook’s 128 million
users on its website and 108 million on phones, according to Nielsen."

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? If you have ~1/4 to ~1/2 as many users as
Facebook, are you not a very successful social network? If Plus was an
independent startup people would be crowning it the next Facebook and saying
that Facebook better watch its back. With all numbers in this article the
author seems to say that if you don't have as many users as Facebook, you're
nothing.

Plus is a Top-5 social network that also offers a convenient solution to
Google's many-account problem. Sounds like it's doing just fine.

~~~
rlu
Gonna make some guesses:

1\. I have in the past counted as a unique monthly user by Googling something
(restaraunt, hotel, ??) and then looking at the "Google Reviews" which would
take you to a plus.google.com page. It seems Google changed the UI on this
now: "Google reviews" brings up a popup thing and the hours and everything
else is on a card on the right of search results.

Good on them for changing it, but do I still count as a user by having
consumed content which I assume come from G+ APIs? Wouldn't be surprised.

2\. I bet many of those 41 million smartphone users are just auto-uploading
pictures to Google+ without _really_ knowing what Google+ is. They just like
that they can auto-upload their pictures.

Google+ isn't doing "just fine".

edit: I'd like to know the unique monthly ACTIVE users. Where "active user" is
defined as having posted something on Google+ (I'd concede to defining an
active user as someone who has done an action to someone else's post, e.g.
Like or Comment)

------
heydenberk
>> Before Google released Plus, the company might not have known that you were
the same person when you searched, watched videos and used maps.

They did know that you were the same person. You maintained the same session.
They may have had limited legal ability to actually use the data from the
different services, but I imagine that could have been accomplished with a
Terms of Service change without a new over-arching social application.

~~~
okasaki
That's exactly what they did. In Jan 2012:

[http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/updating-our-
privacy-...](http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/updating-our-privacy-
policies-and-terms.html)

------
blueskin_
Google+ is slowly eroding trust in google. I've already given several
nontechnical friends advice about moving away from google services as they are
worried about the intrusiveness.

------
fidotron
I can't be the only one that has to use G+ merely to communicate with Google
on different issues. Much of the tech community on there are probably like
this, either directly, or by proxy. In every other sense it's terrible,
especially the "you have these pictures for sharing" stuff. No, maybe I want
to backup my photos and not share them. Incomprehensible behaviour, clearly.

Hangouts still baffles me as well. Why didn't they just leave gmail chat as it
was? I have not met a single person that believes this was an improvement.

That said, I've quit G+ twice now, but because of the work related stuff have
kept having to go back. One day it will snap again.

------
subtlearray
"Google Plus, the company’s social network, is like a ghost town."

Completely false. I've been a member of Google+ for 2 years. I have over
12,000 followers, and I follow over 1,000 people. I see a LOT of activity,
particularly the kind I care about. Not everyone wants or needs to see baby
pictures. In fact, this is one of the things people hate about Facebook.

Regarding the rest of the article, Google+ benefits Google, but it also
benefits the user by creating a more unified experience. Google services were
a fragmented mess before Google+ brought them together. And you can use
Google, YouTube, etc without a Google account.

~~~
blisterpeanuts
Exactly. I keep adding interesting people, some famous and some not famous,
and it makes my feed that much more worthwhile. That said, I don't go there
every day, more like every few days when I'm bored or want to post something
of my own.

And kudos on the huge following. I have a couple hundred followers and I'm
following a couple hundred people at this point.

------
rk17
Beside the point: I think this google plus problem is a symptom of a larger
problem. Google still acts as if it's a start-up, but it isn't. It's a company
with a userbase that has come to rely on their products. Building integrated
platforms - by hijacking existing ones in this case - requires planning, not
multiple public iterations of crap. How many times has my Youtube GUI become
more cluttered because of some integration they're in the process of rolling
out? People have really come to rely on these tools, they're not the new
trendy video-sharing website anymore.

Back on point: It's just a description of reality that Google's attempts at
integration through Google Plus is causing a lot of annoyance and friction
with its user base, even if the end-goal is more beneficial to both. For a lot
of people their plus-accounts were made for them without their consent.
There's an option in youtube to also publish your comment on google plus,
which is opt-out initialy; It remembers the setting of your last post. So you
can raise question marks as to how accurate the numbers Google publishes about
their Plus-network really are. I'm pretty sure there aren't 500 million+
active users on the plus network in any meaningful way.

The real danger exposed in the article is that a lot of unknowing users are
having their search results directly influenced by brands and companies that
they've added to their circles. It's also frustrating that there's no option
at the moment to turn off this bias. I think this going to come back to bite
Google in the ass at some point in the future (I'm already using duck2go).

You add to the above the recent copy-wrong-slip-up and you could even say that
there's a video-sharing website up for grabs. Because the google plus
integration is antagonizing a large share of youtubers and the copy-wrong
issue has antagonized the most important part of their user base: Users that
upload original quality content, 90% of all uploads is crap, right? I believe
the best way to handle managing a platform of this scope is the Apple way.
Because when Apple releases something it's an event and everybody expects
having to relearn some things. But when Google releases something it's a YAIP
- yet another initiative/project. So it's really a succession of stupid moves
on Google's behalf causing the negative comments, I don't think Google bashing
comes into play in any way. (^-^)-

------
spacemanmatt
Whereas Facebook is an altruistic service run by the users for the users.

Oh, spare me the breathless reporting on Skynet, please.

~~~
chilldream
Facebook has an opt-in mechanism called "signing up for a Facebook account."
G+'s equivalent is "signing up for an unrelated service, possibly as long as a
decade ago."

~~~
judk
How do I use Facebook Chat and Facebook Photos without a Facebook News Feed
account, and without Facebook Like buttons recording every web page I visit?

~~~
chilldream
I think the disconnect here is that people don't seem to get that "I
voluntarily signed up for a social network" is an important step for a lot of
people. It's entirely possible that a lot of people who hate g+ now wouldn't
have minded it if it came out of the ether right after Facebook got popular,
instead of being retrofitted onto something that already existed and foisted
on that userbase above its protests. You can't just unilaterally change the
purpose of your site and expect people who liked the old site to automatically
like the new one.

FWIW, I also hate Facebook Connect and refuse to use it on principle despite
having a Facebook account I voluntarily use.

------
baldfat
the best of any social network in one word PHOTOS. Google+ photos is the
killer feature. Try it. It backs up all your photos you have great editor for
your pictures and then there is auto awesome.

~~~
nemtaro
BRAVO! I was just going to say the same thing...

My interest in Google+ is the same interest I had in facebook years ago: some
site I upload and share my personal photos with people I choose.

Now, I see that: 1\. my photos upload automatically from my android to
Google+, so I never have to worry about accidentally losing them. (and yes,
you can set FB up to do that too)

2\. my photos look better on Google+ because it doesn't squeeze the quality
out of them like FB does. (and yes, you can somehow get FB to improve that
too, but I never even bothered to looked)

3\. I can edit my photos right in the browser.

4\. It shows me many different auto-awesome features, and allows me to stitch
photos and clips into movies in seconds...

5\. I don't have to worry about friends I add tomorrow, or next year, seeing
photos I shared yesterday!!! If you've had multiple x-girlfriends, as I
imagine most folks on HN have... that could be a constant problem.

Those features didn't all come up over night, but somewhere along the line I
stopped using FB and started putting photos on Google+

------
grahamburger
I haven't jumped on the 'we hate Google' bandwagon yet. I actually use Google+
a lot - my whole family and most of my friends and co-workers are there. I
mean I don't use it a lot by Facebook standards, I'll share some pics or
thoughts a few times a month. I use Hangouts constantly though. I have a big
group chat with my family that's been running for several months, we use it
basically the way that I imagine Path is supposed to be used. And I have group
chats with various sets of coworkers, and individual chats have entirely
replaced SMS and other chat protocol use. Plus - really really easy group
video chats, which I actually use quite a bit because of the way my workflow
flows.

------
interstitial
I just commented about this the other day in meat-space: The trouble with
Google Plus is they control your identity through the email address (see
Coding Horrors: worse is better). Whereas at LinkedIn you can change and/or
add many email addresses. At Facebook, Twitter, HN, Reddit, Pintrest your
account is not tied exclusively to your email address and unchangeable. I have
several identities on google via different companies, they cannot be merged or
managed.

------
frade33
Social networking overall has run its course. below are the phases it has gone
through like everything else.

1\. Initial Launch: OMG! Cool. Signup

2\. More people Jump in, it becomes even more exciting.

3\. Everyone starts using it.

4\. Eventually, excitement starts to fade away.

5\. It becomes boring.

6\. People’s addiction eventually starts to decline.

7\. People totally lose their interest.

8\. Eventually, it becomes a ghost town. End.

Sadly, Google+ even couldn’t pass through the 2nd phase and skipped all the
way to point 8.

~~~
interstitial
Correction: 1. Exclusive, ego-boosting sign-up process (.edu for facebook,
beta invites for Gmail, etc.)

------
withouted
this article is useless, why did it get up voted? there is nothing new or
insightful about g+ just the same old arguments.

------
s3r3nity
"Google says Plus has 540 million monthly active users, but almost half do not
visit the social network."

So it sounds like the "active" user count is much smaller -- where does the
540 million "monthly actives" come from?

------
krapp
Why, it's almost as if Google is a business, and they decided that being more
Facebook than Facebook would make them a ton more money...

------
cromwellian
GDS. G+ Derangement Syndrome.

------
gress
At least google is becoming more honest about who and what they are.

------
davidnu
This is quite insulting to G+ users to be so easily dismissed and declaring
the place a "ghost town".

Deeming the community worthless because it's not as large as Facebook's is
ridiculous.

There is also no mention of G+ fulfilling the purpose of an identity layer to
tie in Google's offerings under one pictured profile like every other online
service launching today.

This attack which lacks any actual news and new developments is seemingly so
unprovoked and so mean spirited as to indicate that there is a "google
bashing" quota the author is trying to meet.

~~~
jinushaun
Google had an identity layer before G+. Everyone knew that if they signed up
for gmail, they had access to calendar and docs. Even if you didn't sign up
for gmail first, there was already a concept of a Google account where you
activated features like gmail, docs and calendar. G+ plus provides nothing
useful, especially since Hangout is a standalone product in people's minds.

~~~
opinali
Not really. Some products like YouTube used a separate account. Most products
had incompatible ToS so any integration was difficult or impossible. Each
product that had comments, like YouTube or Blogger, or a concept of marking
something as good/bad/favorite/starred/etc., or sharing, did that in a
different and incompatible way, etc. The gmail account was only good enough as
a basic authentication token for several products, nothing more. Yes, we could
have fixed all these problems by unifying all these features around the gmail
account without introducing a traditional social network as a 'bonus' (one
that not all users want), but guess what? If you upgrade your account to G+
but you never post in the stream, or circle anything, there's absolutely no
difference to that hypothetical scenario of "full integration without
introducing plus-the-social-network". Just go to plus.google.com/settings and
disable everything and be happy.

~~~
chilldream
> Just go to plus.google.com/settings and disable everything and be happy

Until they add more things that are checked by default like that "let any
random yahoo email me" feature.

