
Google and Pearson Announce Free LMS Service to Compete with Blackboard/Moodle  - ytNumbers
http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/pearson-and-google-jump-into-learning-management-systems/33636?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+chronicle%2Fwiredcampus+%28The+Chronicle%3A+Wired+Campus%29
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anon1385
A free service from Google? Is the source code available or are institutions
going to be screwed if/when it gets canned?

For those who have forgotten: Code Search, Google Video, Wave, Buzz, Google
Labs, Google Desktop, Google Notebook, Google Sets, Google Squared, Google
Catalogs, Google Answers, Audio Ads, Google Base, Browser Sync, City Tours,
Click-to-Call, Google Dashboard Widgets, Dodgeball, Jaiku, Google Mashup
Editor, Google Directory, GOOG-411, Joga Bonito, Aardvark, Lively, Music
Trends, Ride Finder, Google Shared Stuff, Sidewiki, FastFlip, Google Translate
API, Writely, Google Health, PowerMeter, Google University Search, U.S.
Government Search, Slide products (Disco, Pool Party, Video Inbox, Photovine,
Slideshow, SuperPoke! Pets), Google Pack, Image Labeller and Google
Dictionary. I'm sure I have missed a few things, but you get the idea.

~~~
ytNumbers
The code appears to be open source. You can checkout the code using git as
described here:

<http://code.google.com/p/openclass/source/checkout>

~~~
anon1385
>warning: You appear to have cloned an empty repository.

There doesn't seem to be anything in that project.

~~~
DanielRibeiro
You are right, it is empty:
<http://code.google.com/p/openclass/source/browse/#git>

------
samirahmed
I use Blackboard everyday. Blackboard is a scam.

It has an interface from 2002. To many users this might not be a problem. To
the hundreds of students I work with, this is.

It is counter intuitive to use, has poorly designed features and has terrible
email, calendar and document integration with any other client. Professor
complain, students complain and universities shell out millions.

With the advent of Google/Pearson - This could solve alot of these problems
and reduce barriers to adoption. However it will not be revolutionary in terms
of enabling education. Such software has been around for a while and better
execution will not enable better education.

However if google can integrate the following two factors, we have an
education game changer, not just a free substitute

\- Live work collaboration with Teachers/Teaching Assistants/Students on
google docs.

This will allow students to work on documents and have teachers etc check-in
and help them out.

\- Google Hangout : A feature that is often left out of Google apps suite. But
the potential to video conference with students across the city country and
the world is a real game changer (As YCombinator knows)

~~~
deepbedi
I am currently building a social eLearning site and I will proactively never
call what I'm building as an LMS. LMS' key words are "management" where I'm
building a site that will facilitate learning not just manage it.

I agree that the big game changers are live work collaboration and video chat
and the standard Google has set is absolutely great. As a recent grad (may,
2011), working on group projects was absolutely essential to successful
learning and by being able to allow similar interaction online is a win-win.

We have both those features in the site we're building...and the reason we're
not too terrified of others using Google's APIs is that the user will
ultimately still need a Google account to use them even on a different site.

If OpenClass is truly open, why make everyone sign up and then also sign up to
Google? Not everyone has a Google acct. What about all the countries around
the world that would benefit from a true "OpenClass"?

Check us out at www.cloudeas.com...our landing page is still not up yet as we
recently started this project but with the amount of traction this article is
getting, it's needless to say our landing page will be up today (tonight at
the very latest).

We are 5 recent grads that feel the exact same way you have about blackboard
---absolutely sick of it and it actually distracted us from learning rather
than enhancing it...we decided to build our own: built by students but
designed for professors

------
cilantro
I just want to point out that Canvas is doing a rather good job of modernizing
LMS software: <http://www.instructure.com> ...It took me a long time to find
that tool when I needed to spin up an LMS, so I wanted to make sure folks were
aware of it.

p.s. Canvas is foss <https://github.com/instructure/canvas-lms/wiki>

~~~
xtracto
Mhm... the demo asks for too much information:

Name, email, organization, title, and _phone number_.

This immediately they'll get random gibberish from me. The majority of LMS
provide a default demo login/password and do not require personal information.

About 3 years ago I researched broadly about LMS. I tested several (including
Moodle, Dokeos, Claroline, Blackboard, etc) and selected Dokeos due to its
simplicity and interface ease. Moodle was a second but the interface just did
not make sense to me (too cluttered, no evident task flow for teachers and
students). Right now Chamilo seems to follow Dokeos original goal.

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law
From Blackboard's patent pledge:

"Blackboard hereby commits not to assert any of the U.S. patents listed below,
as well as all counterparts of these patents issued in other countries,
against the development, use or distribution of Open Source Software or Home-
Grown Systems to the extent that such Open Source Software and Home-Grown
Systems are not Bundled with proprietary software.

<snip>

"The commitment not to assert any of these named U.S. patents and all
counterparts of these patents issued in other countries is irrevocable except
that Blackboard reserves the right to terminate this patent pledge and
commitment only with regard to any party who files a lawsuit asserting patents
or other intellectual property rights against Blackboard or its parent or
subsidiaries. This pledge is binding on Blackboard’s successors and assigns."

I really wonder if Blackboard will try anything shady a la its dance with
Desire2Learn a few years ago. Limiting this commitment to open source/home
grown systems _not_ bundled with propriety software provides Blackboard an
opportunity to launch an infringement action against Google, which in a
certain light would be hilarious to watch.

[1] [http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-
pledge.asp...](http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-pledge.aspx)

~~~
nkassis
They lost to D2L if I remember correctly. Not sure how it was resolved
exactly. Anyone has more details?

~~~
law
They "lost" to D2L, but Blackboard appealed, both parties settled, and part of
the settlement included vacating the district court's judgment.

------
ashamedlion
I think the title of this submission and that of the article overstates the
degree to which Google and Pearson are working together. Pearson are merely
using Google's API for Docs and App integration. This integration is open to
anyone, as far as I know. Google are not co-sponsoring this as their own
product.

~~~
ashamedlion
If anyone is interested, I wrote an article about the platform and why it's
perhaps not the best idea: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3121232>

------
pflats
"People will sign on to their Google Mail accounts and see OpenClass as one of
their available products at the top of their Web browser. They will also be
able to use Gmail and Google Docs from within the program."

Is it just me, or is this a bit of a Trojan horse to get students signed up
for the Google ecosystem in bunches of 25 at a time?

As both a teacher and a student, I've never been happy with any LMS I've used.
I try to avoid them whenever possible.

~~~
wuster
I just quit my job to build tools in the Edu space - I am wondering if you'd
be willing to reconsider using lightweight LMS tools that are feature specific
and do not require participation in bigger ecosystems?

~~~
pflats
Yeah, I'd consider it. Feel free to shoot an email to my username at gmail if
you have any questions.

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nowarninglabel
>“Anytime Pearson and Google are used in the same sentence, it’s going to get
people’s attention,”

Yeah, even when apparently this isn't a collaboration between the two, but
just launching through Google Apps. It certainly doesn't sound that exciting
either, sounds like a press release for a costly new service. Moodle is open-
source already and is running many good services on campuses.

~~~
nkassis
I'm wasn't too impress by Moodle for having used it. I also used Blackboard at
my first Uni and while moodle is a step up, there definitely is some work to
do. On the admin side I don't think it's any easier to manage than Blackboard.
Also Blackboard integration was much better with other campus services. Single
sign on and things like that.

But just to be clear Blackboard is a horrible app. UI wise it's like 1999 all
over again and it's dog slow (and not for lack of hardware, I knew some of the
sys admins at my Uni personally, I worked in the same place as them, it's a
bitch to manage). Anything including pen and paper is better than that thing.
Teachers making their own HTML file has higher usability than blackboards
interface. And rare are the teachers that use it for more than posting pdfs of
slides and announcements. I bet their interface is worse.

------
elasticdog
I always thought that the major issue with getting into the LMS space came
from Blackboard's portfolio of software patents surrounding such a service.

Blackboard has pledged that they would not enforce those patents against Open
Source projects [1][2], but pay services might have trouble coming their
way...which would explain the lack of innovation/modernization in the area.

[1] [http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-
pledge.asp...](http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-pledge.aspx)

[2] [http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/frequently-
asked-...](http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/frequently-asked-
questions.aspx)

------
glen
I knew something like this would eventually surface, but didn't realize it'd
come from Pearson. We actually launched a very similar business model/site a
year ago. I've been waiting to post anything on HN, b/c we are in the process
of releasing a few changes (payments, channel updates) that I think would be
helpful; but can save that for another time. We are really intrigued by this
announcement b/c it is pretty much a direct competitor to what we are doing at
NIXTY (www.nixty.com). I posted some thoughts on our blog and will highlight
them here. I'd love to hear any thoughts/criticisms on this analysis.

There is ONE big difference between Pearson and NIXTY. Pearson’s main focus is
on Pearson’s content. They are trying to make the LMS a commodity, so they can
sell more of their content. NIXTY is focused on open education content.

Pearson’s OpenClass = Selling more of Pearson’s Closed Content/Courses

NIXTY = Supporting/Promoting Open Content/Courses

Pearson has the name ‘open’ in the title, but the real goal is to sell more
closed content. Will it work? We don’t think so. Why?

1\. Open Content is transforming education. It is free. Pearson will
marginalize open content and focus on their own content. This will ultimately
prove to be the undoing of OpenClass.

2\. As the Inside Higher Ed article discussed, other publishing companies will
not put their content in Pearson’s OpenClass ecosystem. We are hoping that
they’ll look for a neutral alternative like NIXTY.

3\. Pearson hasn’t exactly been awesome in the LMS space. eCollege is not what
we’d call a market leader. I’m not sure, but it seems like eCollege folks
might be in charge of the OpenClass product. Do they have the chutzpah to blow
up eCollege to help OpenClass. Will the revenue streams from eCollege (tho
likely decreasing) be sacrificed to help them grow OpenClass? Doubtful.
They’ll likely try to keep both systems working and consequently end up doing
a half-way job with OpenClass.

4\. The comments around this from most folks in the articles and on Downes’
Google + post have been less than positive, suggesting that folks don’t
necessarily have a lot of trust in Pearson.

Now, to at least try to be fair, let’s consider what Pearson has going for it.

1\. They’ve got one BILLION dollars (said in my best Dr. Evil voice).
Seriously, they’ve got A LOT of money.

2\. They’ve got a lot of strategic relationships with other organizations and
institutions. They seem to have done a nice job of rolling this out with their
9 design schools. Nicely done!

3\. They’ve got great content!

4\. They are good at marketing! You’d think Google co-designed this thing from
the get-go; really, however, OpenClass is just another app just like
learnboost or any other number of education apps in the Google ecosystem. In
sum, Pearson’s OpenClass is an innovative approach to help Pearson sell more
of their closed content. We believe that they’ll be forced to marginalize open
content and competing closed content. Consequently, they’ll end up doing
students, educators, and colleges a disservice. NIXTY offers the same
functionality, same price (free!), has been around for over a year, and
doesn’t have any content to hawk. Consequently, we can provide a better
service to students, educators, and schools.

~~~
iamelgringo
Dude. Ping me: jonathan@hackersandfounders.com

We're spinning up Hackers & Founders University. I have a hair on fire need,
and I suspect you might be able to help. :)

aka iamelgringo@ googles email service

------
websymphony
The LMS Service market for higher education is surely right for disruption.
Personally, I would have been more excited if there was a startup, instead of
Google had taken this initiative.

~~~
redthrowaway
If it was a startup, they couldn't have done it for free.

Google seems to like rolling into an industry and laying waste to it. As a
consumer, I'm happy about that. As a CS student, it makes me nervous.

------
tgrass
Marketplace reported on this Thursday:
[http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/10/13/pm...](http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/10/13/pm-
pearson-enters-college-software-market/)

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mvkel
While my company focuses more on the events aspect of a university, I can say
that time and time again, our partner schools go with us because our platform
requires no training. We designed it to be easy to use, while still being a
helpful product. I'm convinced that if a startup set out to build an LMS that
is extremely usable, yet meets most requirements, it'd disrupt the heck out of
the space.

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ddw
So you need a Google account to login? That's going to be a problem.

At my college Blackboard isn't tied in to the administrative processes
(there's another system for that), so hopefully they will consider this.
"Free" is a word that they like to hear. I don't know too much about the guts
of Blackboard but it doesn't seem to be as customizable as a Google system
will be.

~~~
mdaniel
Don't forget that the Google ecosystem is not just the "@gmail.com" or
"@googlemail.com" domains. There are tons of deployments of Google Apps for
Domains, wherein one authenticates using the DNS domain[1] of the hosted
system, not via the "traditional" Google credentials.

I could be misunderstanding your concern, however, since the vanilla Apps for
Domains does store the credentials in a Google controlled machine, AFAIK. I
cannot speak to whether there are any customizable authentication options
available with Apps for Domains.

1 = and thus creates a new namespace for usernames

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alexobenauer
This is interesting. At Virginia Tech, we switched from Blackboard to an in-
house system built on Sakai about 2 years ago. It's much better than
Blackboard, but even as a student, it's dreadful. Our professors apparently
have it much worse though.

It would be nice to see a system that uses Google Apps. This would be a big
step up versus the systems in place now.

------
cavalcade
First question that comes to mind is: Will Google collect data from students
to enhance their other products (i.e. Adsense, G+)?

~~~
keni
Our school is actually one of the beta testers, and I think it is important to
point out that it is not actually a Google product, but a Pearson product. So
although it is available through the Marketplace and plays nicely with Apps,
it is not provided by Google.

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neovive
Anything that makes it easier for faculty to communicate with students is a
win-win. Bb is a difficult system to use on multiple fronts - for the student,
instructor and administrators. It's also a very compelling add-on to schools
that were on the fence regarding Google Apps for Education. This should
provide a nice boost for Google.

------
deepbedi
My question: Is OpenClass going to be hosted by Pearson or are they going to
leave that up to the schools like Moodle does?

Just reminds me that "there's no such thing as a free lunch"...

~~~
keni
It is hosted by Pearson. It is a cloud based service just like Google Apps.
They do have a revenue model, although I am not sure it has been completely
released yet.

