
I spent two weeks delivering for Uber Eats and made $4.40 per hour - imartin2k
http://www.breakit.se/artikel/7599/i-spent-two-weeks-delivering-for-uber-eats-and-made-4-4-per-hour
======
FrozenVoid
"Gig/Contract economy" is the analogue of outsourcing, except for the cheap
workers being drawn from local population. Its a logical consequence from
corporations wanting to reduce wages and legal trickery to avoid work
liabilities and benefits for the workers. Its exploitative and ruthless
example of what "capitalism" becomes when law doesn't hold the punch,
companies just figured out the necessary mix of legal and tech means to avoid
the system being labeled as "work" and pay fair wages/expenses per worker.
Expect this type of "work" to increase and subsume new sectors of economy as
they figure out how to transform them into uber model.

~~~
specialist
What's it called when the gigsters have to front their own capital to get the
gigs? Pay to play?

I get why an electrician has their own tools. Why does an Uber driver need
their own car?

~~~
SilasX
>What's it called when the gigsters have to front their own capital to get the
gigs? Pay to play?

Normal freelancing/independent contracting. And yes, there's a dispute about
whether the classification is legal, my point is just that there it's not
something Uber invented (edit: or any of the other on-demand startups).

~~~
FrozenVoid
No. Its like being paid per each function of code developed. There is a
segmentation of work into deliverable units(rides, deliveries). If programmers
were replaced by gig economy, it would look like freelancers getting paid
pennies for creating tiny pieces of code(with large competition between them
for speed and performance): e.g. a gig where you write function X of project
Y, which is then graded for performance and compliance and paid 60 cents, with
a twist:you are only paid if your function is the best one among all
submitted. With gamification and ratings, the competition become very fierce
and people get near zero income, making the job unsustainable except for those
living in third-world countries.

------
losteverything
As a comparison, $17.40 is what a rural carrier starts with the us postal
service. [1]

After a strike in the '70s postal workers could bargain. This has led to
stable, unglorified, mid pay jobs. The bargaining was and is key.

Now, if you sign up as a City carrier you can (with luck) become "regular" in
90 days. You will get 23 paid days off, eligible for federal pool health
insurance (quite good 2m pool) where you pay 25% premium, never work Sundays,
guaranteed 40 hours work a week, no email, stress, home by 5pm.

[1]
[https://wp1-ext.usps.gov/sap/bc/webdynpro/sap/hrrcf_a_unreg_...](https://wp1-ext.usps.gov/sap/bc/webdynpro/sap/hrrcf_a_unreg_job_search#)

Choose state and "delivery"

~~~
dghughes
I was looking at the job board here in Canada and saw a rural postal delivery
job. It said it paid $15,000 but $7,500 of that was for vehicle expenses. You
need your own vehicle with a plug able to plug in the post office light for
the roof.

I can't see how this would appeal to anyone or how it is even legal. If you
worked an eight hour day that's only $3.60 per hour.

~~~
losteverything
Rural in usa does not necessarily mean "rural" all rural routes i know use
postal trucks. They dont have any businessess and share an office with
business routes

~~~
gumby
A lot of RFD and there rural delivery is done by local folks with a magnetic
sticker on the side of the car that says postal service. In my experience it's
all mothers with no other job who can pick up some extra cash while the kids
are at school.

Which doesn't contradict your statement that "all rural routes i know use
postal trucks", just says that conditions are different in different areas.

FWIW , where my vacation house is, the postman also delivers Amazon packages
and wears no uniform while at home in Palo Alto the postman, Fedex etc all
have uniforms.

------
fastball
I rode for UberEats for two weeks and made roughly £22 an hour.

To be fair, this was when they were just coming into London and offering crazy
bonuses to steal market share from Deliveroo, but still, this isn't
controversial - if someone pays you bad wages, don't work for them...

~~~
libeclipse
That's some solid advice, but for some people, that's simply not an option.

If you can't find work elsewhere, you'd rather work for pennies than for
nothing.

~~~
Murkin
So its better that Uber didn't offer this job at all?

~~~
jacobr
It would be better if they offered the job with reasonable wages and
conditions. If consumers are not willing to pay enough for Uber to be able to
offer this, they have a poor business model or are in the wrong market.

You could say the same about any regulation, if you cannot manufacture
something at a reasonable price without polluting more than allowed, you need
to change your prices or adjust your business model.

~~~
dominotw
> you need to change your prices or adjust your business model.

so its better for a job to not exist rather than exist without reasonable
wage?

~~~
jacobr
The alternative is for Uber to invest in increased productivity, just like
other industries. Making each worked hour give more return. They could supply
better bikes, as another poster suggested less downtime for drivers, better
algorithms to cut the length of the routes, higher fees for customers... I'm
sure there are clever people that can figure it out.

------
kh_hk
Several things the article does not mention:

\- Some workers are pressured to rent a scooter or an e-bike. Having bike
carriers is cool, but they prefer faster and long ranges. They rent from
companies that have a deal with the parent company. This makes it even more
difficult to earn a profit.

\- On some countries, you must register as self-employed or freelance. Taxes
and you also pay for social security.

\- This highlights something interesting. These companies have a pool of
riders at zero risk

\- The part about few orders really depends on the city and the part of the
day you work. Busiest hours can give you a solid 7 - 10 deliveries on a 3 hour
period.

------
fiatjaf
I don't understand what is wrong with Uber Eats charging whatever price they
want to charge. If $4.4 is too low just don't work for them. There are
probably people for which this is a good price. If not, it's Uber Eats
problem, not yours.

~~~
moxious
It's not black and white. What looks to you like the free choice of people
choosing to work for $4.4 may look to others like a forced situation. What I
think you're missing is that your assumption that everyone can freely choose
and has alternatives is clearly mistaken.

~~~
reustle
> may look to others like a forced situation. What I think you're missing is
> that your assumption that everyone can freely choose and has alternatives is
> clearly mistaken.

Could you please elaborate? I don't exactly follow. Nobody is forcing them to
work for Uber. If what you mean is they have bills to pay, etc, it's not like
Uber can just magically decide to pay $9/hr, they will likely need to cut most
of the jobs at that point anyway.

~~~
waisbrot
Simplistically: people can either work or not work. Nearly everyone will chose
"work" because it's nice to feel useful, even if that work doesn't pay a
living wage.

If people are not earning a living wage, societies can either let them die in
the street or subsidize them. Most societies will choose the later, because
they're made of humans and not monsters.

That means that there really is a minimum wage, but it's paid in part or in
full by the society. Companies that pay less than a living wage exploit the
"humans don't like watching children starve to death" vulnerability and
effectively steal from society. Additionally, paying a lower wage lets them
offer a lower price to consumers which can drive out companies that were
paying their customers an actual wage.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Whether or not the statement "nearly everyone will chose to "work" is true,
the problem that must be solves is how to incentivize someone to do the work
that no one wants to do.

It's entirely possible that providing a "living" wage to a food delivery
person just isn't worth it for consumers so they would rather just go get it
themselves.

The conundrum is creating a system where there enough incentive is created to
do the work no one wants, but at the same time distribute resources so that
everyone is provided some definition of "standard of living". This is
difficult when the value of (most) human's work is ever decreasing.

------
arekkas
Time and time again, Uber has shown that undercutting their competitors in
pricing is not done through smart technology or better business models, but by
avoiding regulations and getting away with inhumane wages.

~~~
patrickaljord
The alternative for many unskilled people would be to be unemployed and having
even less income, would that be more or less inhumane?

~~~
argonaut
This is essentially an argument against having a minimum wage in general (and
more broadly, certain labor regulations). It's a complex issue that we could
argue about for pages and pages of comments, but suffice to say the vast
majority of the population in the US, let alone Sweden, disagree with you.

Which is that in some cases it _is_ better to have some unemployed people and
some (ideally a lot more) people earning a good wage, versus both groups
earning a crappy wage. Combined with a welfare system.

~~~
eru
And most economists agree with the grandfather comment..

~~~
jellicle
Not at all, no. Throughout the world, unemployment is correlated with the
local minimum wage - as the minimum wage increases, unemployment decreases.
Somalia (no minimum wage) has an unemployment rate of over 60%. Increasing the
minimum wage in US states produces no negative employment effects.

There are, of course, paid professional conservative economists who will tell
you whatever their bosses want them to in support of pro-billionaire economic
policies.

~~~
patrickaljord
> Increasing the minimum wage in US states produces no negative employment
> effects.

Why not increase it to $500 an hour then? When you increase the price of
cigarettes, people buy less cigarettes, when you increase the price of cars,
people buy less of it. What do you think happens when you increase the price
of labor and why do you think it has magic powers that makes it avoid these
basic laws of economics?

What about people who prefer to work for Uber for $4 per hour rather than stay
unemployed? Would you tell them "Sorry but this is inhumane, I can't let you
do that to yourself and I'm ready to vote laws to forbid you to do as you
please with your free time and send people like you to jail if they persist"?
Do you know better than they do what's best for them and how they can use
their own body? Doesn't that make you an authoritarian?

~~~
gnaritas
Whenever someone trots out the "basic laws of economics" it usually means
they're trying really hard to ignore the complexities of reality and force the
world to fit into a simplistic and wrong model in their head. Study after
study supports his position while yours is purely ideological and not in
alignment with the facts. Rather than even discuss the facts, you've flipped
to accusing him of being an authoritarian, and you think you're being the
rational one here... really?

Try and understand that not everyone thinks employment is the end goal, rather
being able to live a decent life is and that requires a livable wage and most
of the western world has decided it's better to have a decent safety net that
defines that floor than to let people be forced by circumstances to work for
less than a livable wage. Try and understand what the words "wage slavery"
mean to those who find meaning in that term, regardless of how you feel about
it.

All democracies are authoritarian in the sense that you use the word; the
minority will always feel wronged in some way by the majority forcing them to
do things they're ideologically against. Using the word in that way makes it
meaningless and makes your argument look weak.

~~~
eru
A minimum wage still sets the floor to zero. It just outlaws values between $0
and somelike like $8.

------
blfr
_Many of them are immigrants and are looking for a better future. I meet very
few who can speak Swedish._

Only a massive supply of labour via immigration makes it possible to pay
people $4/hr and have any takers.

~~~
rocqua
To be fair, any form of massive supply is sufficient. It need not be
immigration.

------
neom
I saw an obviously distressed/very low income guy sitting on the sidewalk in
Manhattan last week with a sign that said he had worked for two weeks with
uber eats but they didn't tell him they will only do direct deposit not a
cheque and he needed help because he doesn't have a bank account.

~~~
usaphp
If he has a driver license and a car - how come he can't open a bank account?
Getting a driver license is much harder and requires more paperwork then
opening a bank account I thought

~~~
bebop
I don't think you need an address to get a driver license. To open a bank
account you need to verify your current address with something like a current
bill or pay stub.

~~~
mcculley
I don't know how it works where you live. I live in Florida. When Florida
became compliant with the REAL ID Act, we had to start producing proof of
residency when renewing our driver licenses or applying for them. This means
showing things like utility bills. Owning real estate is not sufficient.

------
arkitaip
Uber's 10 000 SEK per month for working 50 hours is an awful exploitative
salary in Sweden. Usually that's the kind of pay you get doing sweat shop jobs
as an undocumented immigrant, not working for a legitimate business.

~~~
PeterisP
Have you read the article? There's no 10000 SEK per month, it's just an empty
promise; noone gets paid the described amount because the number of deliveries
simply isn't there. The best scenario mentioned was a guy who managed to get
6000 sek per month, and working much more than the 50 hours.

------
nraynaud
Here, in Montpellier, France there is a crazy competition between Foodora and
Deliveroo, I don't know how healthy this is, they are just trying to kill each
other so that the victor raises the prices, all that on the back of medicine
students speeding with bikes while dodging trams and busses.

I have never tried those services since I live downtown and I don't really
need home delivery.

------
alltakendamned
It would be good to consider the reasons why certain people still feel it is a
good idea to work/drive for a company such as Uber.

Is it a lack of alternatives? A "better than nothing" situation? Does anyone
have insights?

~~~
aianus
I drive for Uber on the side despite my real job paying 7x more per hour. It's
mostly an excuse to get out of the house and drive my car with someone else
paying for the gas.

------
valuearb
"The middle man PaySalary, which formally recruits Uber Eats bike couriers,
then deducts employer fees as well as an administrative fee of 3.3 percent.

A statuary holiday entitlement of 12 percent is added.

After this, a 30 percent tax is deducted.

To summarize: If I am guaranteed a payment of 300 SEK, that translates to an
hourly pay after fees, but before taxes, of just over 150 SEK plus holiday
entitlement. That’s just short of 17 dollars an hour"

Why do Europeans brag about how great their governments are, then bitch about
the mad taxes they have to pay for them?

~~~
detritus
To be fair, it's my impression (as a Brit) that Nordics rarely 'bitch about
the mad taxes'. Such concerns are often doled out by those in countries who
don't feel they get a good return on their investment — the Mediterranean
countries and higher earners in the likes of France and the UK.

~~~
valuearb
In this case the author was complaining about how low the aftertax earnings
were, without realizing he was bitching about how high the taxes were.

------
tallanvor
I don't think I would use Uber Eats even if they were available in Oslo, but I
already outright refuse to order through Foodora. They might pay better, but
the number of times one of their cyclists has almost hit me or my dog has put
me off ever using them. They should at the very least make those boxes have
easily visible ID numbers so that you can call in complaints about them!

------
mtkd
I've seen noticed so many high voted anti-Uber stories across so many media
channels recently - I can't help but suspect there is something more going on
here

there are plenty of other companies pushing boundaries in other areas not
getting near as much negative PR right now

I don't use Uber but I know many who consistently do without ever having a
negative word to say about them

~~~
rando444
You might want to clarify what "use uber" means.

If you're just talking about customers who eventually benefit from people
being paid low salaries, it's not really a good point of comparison.

~~~
mtkd
it wasn't a specific comment about the article - but volume of Uber related
articles currently in the media generally

------
cousin_it
I don't understand the libertarian argument for allowing low wages. Let's say
company X is paying low wages, which allows it to sell goods for cheap. If
company Y tries to enter the market and pay higher wages, they won't get any
market share, because their goods will be more expensive. So wages will stay
low forever. Am I missing something?

~~~
jstanley
If company Y is producing the same quality of goods as company X but trying to
charge more money, they deserve to be out-competed by company X. Do you agree?

Equally, if employee Y is producing the same quality of work as employee X but
trying to charge more money, does employee Y not deserve to be out-competed by
employee X?

Employment is a two-sided market too.

Nobody would advocate for a minimum price for a packet of crisps just to save
the poor crisp companies from earning too little per packet. It is obvious
that if crisps were too expensive, people would stop buying them. The same
applies for workers.

Minimum wage is just saying "if you can't produce at least $X of value per
hour, you're not allowed to work at all". That's not fair.

~~~
pg314
Except that in one case you're talking about companies and in the other about
people. I have no problems with companies dying, but I have moral reservations
about people dying. The free market has no such qualms, it will happily set
wages at a level where people can't survive.

~~~
eru
A minimum wage forbids companies from hiring workers..

What you are arguing for is a welfare state.

As an example, modern Germany had a long tradition of welfare state combined
with no minimum wage.

~~~
Fnoord
> As an example, modern Germany had a long tradition of welfare state combined
> with no minimum wage

Welfare state as in? Having social benefits and minimum wage is not mutually
exclusive.

Furthermore according to Wikipedia [1] the minimum wage in Germany is 8.84
EUR. You might say, "that's Wikipedia, that's no reliable source!" No sweat,
go click the link first. For this specific information (minimum wage in
Germany) they provide links to an English AND German source.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_count...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country)

~~~
eru
Exactly. There are two independent choices.

Yes, Germany has a minimum wage now. It's fairly recent. Hence my careful
wording that Germany "had" a tradition, not "has" a tradition.

------
fixxer
In the absence of federal support programs, are people who would drive for
Uber or any of these gig-type apps better or worse off with the opportunity to
earn $4.40/hr?

If you raise that wage, most likely​ the business model ceases to be
worthwhile for Uber, so the job goes away. I don't think that means it is
replaced with something better.

------
kisstheblade
Used Wolt and Foodora (in Finland). The Wolt people usually use cars for
delivery. Wonder how that factors in the profit calculations for the delivery
person.

Anyhow, I'm really wondering how any one of these companies can survive when
the VC subsidies run out. There have been other food delivery services here
before them but the have been shut down for being too expensive. On the other
hand they had actual employees and paid their taxes etc. Wonder how much tax
avoidance is possible for foodora/wolt workers, or how much the corporations
do "tax structuring" which seems to be all the rage nowadays for hipster
startups.

~~~
mschuster91
> Anyhow, I'm really wondering how any one of these companies can survive when
> the VC subsidies run out.

The one with the biggest amount of $$$ and the (relatively) lowest cash burn
will prevail, and once the competition is shot, raise the prices by (ab)using
the now dominant position.

This is then followed by either an IPO or acquisition.

------
nopinsight
In food delivery service, natural monopoly/oligopoly might exist and companies
could eliminate competitors which adhere to minimum wage or treat their
workers better. The eventual result could be unfairly high profits for these
companies, not due to a better system or innovation but from shady practices.

In general I believe well-implemented negative income taxes work better than
minimum wages, but given the weakening power of less skilled labor and
political situations that limit redistribution of wealth/income, minimum wages
are justified in certain cases.

~~~
rocqua
I've always liked the simplicity of a linear tax with a rather large tax
credit and paying out rather than collecting when income after tax credit is
negative.

I'm not sure if such a system can be made sufficiently progressive.

------
pat_space
This is an interesting comparison between the two services in Sweden. I wonder
how much variance we would see in the states with the "tipping culture". 4
deliveries per hour with an average tip of $2 is $8/hr by itself, exceeding
the hourly "wage" paid by Uber Eats.

Sometimes I daydream about being a bike courier/messenger in a city like New
York. I've even considered delivering sandwiches over the lunch hour in my
current city, Denver. The author's descriptive of cycling in the rain tempered
my dream a bit.

~~~
sundaeofshock
Physical labor is hard, and often results in shorter lifespans. I was once
friends with a bike courier, both of us a similar age. I see him in the
streets every few years. I just passed a few weeks ago and he looks old. At
least a decade older then me (50). Barring an accident, I'll most likely
outlive him by a decade, with a higher quality of life due to his accumulated
aches and pains.

------
abrown28
No one owes you a "living wage". No one owes you a wage at all.

~~~
kinos
No one asks to be born into a society that doesn't allow someone to eschew its
rules as they wish. There is literally no way to consent to being born. It is
not a choice someone makes.

People are being born into a society they can not afford to live in, and have
no options to leave it. I personally find that disgusting.

------
wjossey
While not 100% analaogous, there was a fantastic EconTalk episode recently
that touched on sweat shops and human behavior. I'm not attempting to say that
UberEATS is an "American" sweatshop, but the relative wage in our market might
result in similar behaviors.

[http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2016/12/chris_blattman_1.ht...](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2016/12/chris_blattman_1.html)

------
lightedman
That's about exactly what happened with Mr. Klumpp's CrunchButton - people
learned very quickly that $6 per delivery kills your wages when college
students don't usually tip and you can make only a delivery roughly every hour
unless you get lucky with multiple orders coming in for the same food place.
Most Crunchbutton drivers were actually losing money once they figured in gas
expenses (which of course Crunchbutton did not pay.)

------
vivekd
I wonder if the results would have been different in North America where the
delivery people would make tips on top of their delivery fares.

------
macwas
So Uber Eats won't send you jobs to prevent you earn the bonus? Or was it just
you waiting at a 'wrong' location?

------
totalizator
What about tipping in Sweden? Do you tip the couriers that deliver food to
your home (and what would be an average tip)?

~~~
Fnoord
Wikipedia has good information about tipping customs and laws in countries
throughout the world. Here's the Swedish entry [1].

As a rule of thumb: apart from the English-speaking countries in EU, tipping
is not mandatory.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#Sweden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity#Sweden)

~~~
GordonS
It's not mandatory in the UK either. It's certainly pretty common in
restaurants, as long as they don't already add a service charge, but it's
unusual to tip in just about any other situation.

------
maxnevermind
I wonder Is there gonna be a response from Uber to that? I mean, except for
prohibiting hiring journalists :) ?

~~~
iriche
They where going to look over the bonus system to make it easier to get the
bonuses

------
edzorg
How does this apply to London I wonder?

~~~
fastball
I don't know about now, but I cycled for UberEats when they first came to
London last summer, and averaged £22 an hour due to the crazy incentives they
were offering to steal marketshare from Deliveroo.

------
libeclipse
That's less than half a dollar per kilometre.

Damn.

------
unityByFreedom
Sounds like a raw deal for a bicycle, but, how about on a scooter?

~~~
iriche
The main issue is that they don't have enough customers but they still pull
out as many people as they can to work for almost free

~~~
unityByFreedom
I see your point. In Sweden, I see they don't have a minimum wage, and that
they use collective bargaining to make agreements. Since Uber Eats is new, I
imagine they haven't established a union yet.

I wonder how that will play out.

~~~
bassviola
If you join a union you'll get kicked out is how that will work I imagine.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Firing someone for joining a union is against the law. In fact firing an
employee after a grace period is difficult in Scandinavia unless they are
clearly incompetent or criminal.

For that reason it might even be that Uber doesn't worry too much about high
turnover because it means that most of their workers are sackable without
having to give reasons or compensation.

~~~
Fnoord
They work around that by calling these employees 'freelancers'. Which is of
course bullshit since there's a top-down relationship, but these employees
don't have the means (resources/info/money) to combat this in a court of law.

The trick abused before was hiring people as interim, and then sacking them
right before they had to be hired permanently by law. I know first hand even
the government in The Netherlands did this in '00\. However this still means
these people need to get minimum wage (actually, more, since the employment
agency also demands a cut). As you can see, the freelance trick is more
lucrative.

------
whatupmd
How much is uber eats making per hour?

------
Markoff
TLDR Uber pays 4.4$ per hour, local competitor 17.9$

remind me again, why we need this shady company in Europe?

~~~
eru
Who's forcing those people to work for uber, if those other companies are
ostensibly paying better?

~~~
rwmj
It sounds (from the article) that Uber is "flexible" about immigration rules.

~~~
eru
Thanks for answering that!

So it looks like those higher paying jobs are not actually available for a
large part of the Uber Eats workforce? How would those people benefit from
being forbidden from working (= minimum wage)?

~~~
Trd
> How would those people benefit from being forbidden from working

You are asking the wrong question. The real question is how can swedes prevent
yet another unskilled job from being utterly annihilated by globalization in
action?

Before Uber and undocumented migrants arriving in droves, those lines of
unskilled work had better condition, quality of life. With the unfair
competition of illegally employed undocumented migrants working for peanuts,
it's only a matter of time before all other delivery companies shut their
doors and bail. Then we'll end up with yet another job lost at the globalist
hands. How much can we continue losing to globalisation? Everything, until the
entire Western world has become as poor as the third world, save for the low %
of SV entrepreneurs and VC?

~~~
eru
Why would the Swedes want to do that?

Productivity ultimately drives standards of living.

------
panitaxx
That sounds great. Let's regulate it. I am from Venezuela and can tell you the
wonders regulation has done for my country's economy.

~~~
gizzlon
I'm from Norway and the economy is quite regulated. We're still/therefore
(take your pick) very successful [1].

Macro economy is complicated. It seems obvious to me the it's not as simple as
"just let everyone run free". On the other hand regulation has it's
disadvantages as well. Complicated.

[1] as in #3 in the world:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_\(nominal\)_per_capita)

~~~
krrrh
Measuring "regulation" isn't straightforward, but based on the Heritage
Foundation's criteria, Norway has a relatively light load. It's basically on
par with the US.[1] Its a very free economy by international standards.
Venezuela is near the bottom of the list, just above North Korea.

Economic regulation and the extent of the social safety net can be quite
independent of each other.

[1]
[http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking](http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking)

------
johnchristopher
Push it a little bit harder and you are going to argue minimum wage is a
stalinian horror.

~~~
patrickaljord
Nice refutation. Also, are you aware that minimum wages laws were originally
designed to prevent low skilled blacks from competing on price with whites,
right? Even to this day, minimum wage keeps minorities out of jobs. But if it
makes you feel better at night that at least no one is payed $4 an hour, even
if that means staying at home with $0 an hour.

For those downvoting, this is a historical fact:

\-
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-t...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriesheffield/2014/04/29/on-
the-historically-racist-motivations-behind-minimum-wage/#6bae094c11bb)

\- [http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0405-leonard-
mini...](http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0405-leonard-minimum-
wage-20160405-story.html)

When you have no skills, you need to compete on price, that's just a fact of
life. Preventing people from competing on price will keep them poor and
unemployed. When this is done on purpose to racial minorities, it's called
racism.

~~~
johnchristopher
> When you have no skills, you need to compete on price [..]

Since you like funky logic and straw man arguments I'll just point out that
even people or business with skills have to compete on price therefore the
rest of your rambling is moot.

(And I have been living my whole life in Western continental Europe so I don't
see what the US segregation has to do with me being a racist because I support
minimal wage)

------
jsherwani
Did anyone catch the part where the journalist got the co-founder of Foodora
(also his Foodora-boss) to impersonate him as an Uber courier? He mentioned it
like it was the most normal thing. I wonder if there's a deeper relationship
at play here. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Uber is staying true to its "Do be
evil" doctrine. But I wonder if there's a separate vested interest (e.g.,
support local businesses) operating behind the scenes.

~~~
circlingthesun
"Breakit’s co-founder" not "co-founder of Foodora".

