

The AT&T Next Hustle - HiggySmalls
http://don.citarella.net/2015/06/23/att-next-hustle/

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lowmagnet
When someone gets out a piece of paper, draws lines or quadrants on it, and
starts writing down numbers, refuse to continue the conversation.

This is new/used car dealer tactics.

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fengb
I'll never understand how Next disparagers get their numbers. The screenshot
[1] clearly shows $21.67 per month for 30 months ($650.10).

Next is effectively 0% installment loan for buying a new device with the
(admittedly terrible) option of terminating the contract and returning the
device for a new Next contract.

[1] [http://i1.wp.com/don.citarella.net/wp-
content/uploads/2015/0...](http://i1.wp.com/don.citarella.net/wp-
content/uploads/2015/06/att01.png)

~~~
adanto6840
It's closer to a lease though, no? If you use the [upgrade] option prior to
making the final payment, you have to return the phone.

If you make the final payment, and then choose to upgrade, do you get to keep
the phone you've been paying for (i.e. an installment loan), or must you
return it (aka, a lease)?

~~~
fengb
If you pay off the entire amount, you keep the device. If you upgrade before
the contract ends, you have the option of paying off the remaining amount and
keeping it (or returning it).

It's most likely a terrible idea to return the device instead of paying off
and selling it, and AT&T probably makes free money from that, but the rest of
the plan is pretty reasonable.

~~~
joshstrange
This is what I've always understood to be the case, just never return the
device, pay it off and sell it on craigslist/ebay (which I've done 4+ times
without any issues).

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bbakkd
It's actually worse than this article states. If you get the "AT&T Next 24"
plan that just means you can upgrade to a new phone after 24 months. You are
actually agreeing to make 30 payments so you end up with $56 tax plus $29 x 30
or $926.

Edit: Also note that you are only eligible for upgrading after 24 months if
your phone is in good condition--no cracks, chips, etc. If your phone breaks
not only do you have to buy a new one, but you have to keep paying for the old
one for 30 months!

~~~
iamstephenliu
It's nowhere near being "worse" than the article states. The Next plans are
literally just $0 down, 0% interest installment plans. It's exactly what
T-Mobile is doing, except AT&T does a really shitty job of explaining how it
works and, instead of having you pay $10 for Jump to trade-in whenever you
want, you can opt to trade it in a few months before the payments finish.

My friend's T-Mobile phone broke halfway through her installment plan. She had
to buy a new one and still pay for her old, broken one for the next year.

~~~
bbakkd
It actually is worse than the article states because he calculated it at 24
months but he should have calculated it at 30 months. And if you lose, break,
or even crack your phone before the 30 months--which isn't at all uncommon--
you still have to pay for the old one and a new one.

~~~
iamstephenliu
How is that "worse"? They have two other installment duration options.

Again, though, that's the same thing that happens if you break your phone on
T-Mobile before 24 months if you don't have Jump, which not everyone has.

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janesvilleseo
I just went through this "fun" several months ago. I was and still am livid.
The rate increase for the 2 year contract is a horrible tactic used by them to
increase the bottom line.

What I did was simply call and threaten to leave. They offered me over $400 in
credits. During that call I found out I can get my normal line price by simply
paying off my phones early. Note I had the 2 year contract when I upgraded.
The plan was to pay them off once I went through my credit after 3 months and
switch to cricket. When the time came I paid off my phones (2 phones at about
$350 a piece + tax). When I called to pay them off the lady had to get a
manager approval because she didn't know how to do it. Long story short I am
not yet with cricket, because I can't find a cheap tablet only option (I
travel a lot). This and other billing practices really put piss me off about
att (combined billing)

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Evolved
Unless my (read: everyone whom this affects) bill(s) actually drops by a
corresponding amount of $ then this Next doesn't seem worth it. Many of us pay
$200 for a phone and the rest is subsidized by signing the contract for 2
years. Why would I want to pay $650 + the same monthly payment for 2 years for
the same phone? Upgrade early? If I stick with iPhones and can tolerate not
having the newest one every 1 year vs. every 2 years then this has no benefit.
This may only serve to benefit those who A. keep their phones in good
condition and B. have Android or other non-iPhones where a newer model is
introduced more than once a year.

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lawnchair_larry
At first I thought this was an obvious scam. Then I realized, when I upgrade
my phone, the old one just sits in a drawer. In general, I can't be bothered
to actually sell my old devices. So, maybe it isn't so bad.

~~~
janesvilleseo
Several places have a buyback program. I used Amazon for my last phones.
Didn't get as much as if I sold them myself, but it was painless. I had 2
iPhone 5s and got around $200 for each. They give you Amazon credit which is
not as good as cash, but I still used it for things I needed for around the
house.

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bgilroy26
If Apple feels the phone is worth $600, and you're getting the phone new,
you're only going to be able to pay $200 for it if AT&T pays the rest for you.

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adanto6840
Isn't loading for me, here's text-only cached version:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:don.cit...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:don.citarella.net/2015/06/23/att-
next-hustle/&es_sm=91&strip=1&vwsrc=0)

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guelo
The worst deal is for new users that are stuck paying the $40/month if they
don't want Next. Thank goodness they weren't allowed to buy T-Mobile.

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LargeCompanies
I'm on this plan with my family and recommend everyone (if possible) to coral
family/friends to do the same.

It's six of us who share 20gigs a month. Each of us pays $50 a month for the
data and unlimited text/talk. Further, we can upgrade annually by returning
our phones in good condition (have an otter box so it's solid) and pay an
upgrade fee.

I use about 6 gigs a month while the others about 2 gigs.

~~~
LargeCompanies
Ha this isn't spam just someone who use to have their own plan and was paying
more then double for a lesser service(sprint).

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Evolved
I assume Apple store employees don't try to sway people into Next when buying
in the Apple store?

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reagency
Why would you even start down this hideouslly complicated system instead of
just getting a T-Mobile or Boost or similar plan, and buying a retail phone.
(Preferably a $200 Anroid , or a uaed iPhone, instead of a $600 iPhone)

The "hustle" only shows up when you sign up for the incredibly expensive
systems and then try to find a loophole.

~~~
intopieces
>buying a retail phone

For the same reason people very rarely pay cash for a house. They can't afford
it.

The AT&T Next Plan is a reasonable compromise for people who want a new
smartphone and cannot afford to pay 200-500$ up front.

~~~
bbakkd
That doesn't make it any less of a hustle and probably why rent-to-own places
still get customers. So yeah if you have to have the most expensive phones but
can't afford them you will do this.

The thing is they are pretty much forcing everyone into these plans by almost
doubling the old plan prices. Plus the old family plans are no longer cheaper
if you don't have a smartphone and don't use data--you pay the same price for
all phones.

~~~
intopieces
>That doesn't make it any less of a hustle.

Still not quite understanding your use of this word. How can the deal be a
fraud or swindle if the terms are given up front? Let's set aside the argument
about whether you think it's a good deal or not, as that is not the meaning of
the word "hustle".

They're not intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.

They're not signing you up for something and then changing the terms.

As far as I can tell, the word hustle is being used here to mean "trying to
convince people that a product is a better deal than it is." But again, this
is a matter of opinion and situation. What is a good deal for you may not be
available to others because of the up front cost

And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are
still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years
contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract.

~~~
Evolved
_intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.

signing you up for something and then changing the terms._ \- fraud

 _And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn 't add up. You are
still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years
contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract._ \- hustle

I've paid $175/month for 3 lines (2 are unlimited data and 1 is 2gb) for over
8 years now and I've always bought the $199 iPhone (with upgrade). A
comparable plan with high-capped data (closest you can get to unlimited) runs
only a little bit more ($185-190) for 3 lines. When I recently went to upgrade
I was offered Next and the monthly cost wouldn't have been any cheaper for the
lines yet I'd have had to pay an extra $2X.XX/month for the phone. Trying to
persuade me that this is a better deal when it is not qualifies as a hustle.
It isn't fraud since there's no bait and switch. They're just bullshitting.

~~~
Evolved
intopieces - I can't reply to your comment so I'll post my reply here. _There
are different terms and benefits. They 're not exactly alike. What you're
saying is, essentially, "The salesman tried to sell me something I don't want
and that's dishonest."_ This is patently false and not what I said or meant.
What is the hustle about this is trying to persuade me that their deal is
better when it is in fact, not.

 _Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without
having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That
you don 't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.You would have a case
if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are
not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your
point!_ My point is that the deals are as close as they can and they were
trying to A. persuade me to pay more money, B. persuade me to give up my
unlimited data and C. persuade me to pay full price for my phone when I
normally don't.

In addition, I've never paid an ETF as ETF means _Early Termination Fee_ and
since I clearly stated I complete the full contract then there would not be
any ETF.

Summary: AT&T Next is a hustle for most of their customers.

~~~
intopieces
>A. persuade me to pay more money >C. persuade me to pay full price for my
phone when I normally don't.

Now we've gotten to the real hustle -- you think that when you buy your phone
from AT&T on contract, that you don't pay the full price of the phone. You do,
actually. Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part
that pays for the phone.

[http://m.att.com/shopmobile/wireless/next-calculate-the-
valu...](http://m.att.com/shopmobile/wireless/next-calculate-the-value.html)

>B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data Here's where we get to your real
complaint. This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next
Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore --
fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here.

~~~
Evolved
subsidy noun sub·si·dy \ˈsəb-sə-dē, -zə-\

: money that is paid usually by a government to keep the price of a product or
service low or to help a business or organization to continue to function

: a grant or gift of money: as a : a sum of money formerly granted by the
British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation b : money
granted by one state to another c : a grant by a government to a private
person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

 _Remember the fee they waive if you do AT &T Next? That's the part that pays
for the phone._ What about before AT&T Next? I think what you're missing is
the contract price doesn't magically drop after you "pay off" the phone if it
is subsidized. Therefore if it doesn't drop then it was never really increased
seeing as the plan prices are the same whether you buy a phone or not (at
least they are/were every time I've upgraded). That is the subsidized part
that I'm talking about.

In closing, the subsidized cost of my phone was not paid back by me to AT&T as
evidenced by the fact that my bill is the same whether I signed a 2 year
agreement and bought a phone or not.

 _This whole time, you 've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan.
Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair
enough, but that's not what we're talking about here._ I haven't been hiding
any beef with AT&T about unlimited data since they still grandfather both of
my unlimited data lines. My beef is with them trying to hustle me into a worse
plan at a higher cost. Why would I care if they offer unlimited data any more
if I already have it? Unlimited data or any amount of data for that matter,
Next still, in the most literal sense, costs me more money.

