
Nietzsche on Solitude - pmoriarty
http://www.hermitary.com/solitude/nietzsche.html#
======
kfk
For the first time in many years I found myself in a big group of friends in a
new city. Good social life is something I always thought I was missing and now
I have it. I realized, though, that my problems are still there. Maybe I had
put too many hopes into this, but I am rather disappointed. In fact, lately I
came to appreciate again solitude and my alone times. I still think friends
should be a top priority in life, but now I also think you need to reserve
time to do stuff on your own, it gives you the chance to always try out new
things.

~~~
thirdsun
Sure, it's always a question of balance - I enjoy spending time with my
friends, but I need frequent and long breaks, which sometimes leads to
confusion and misunderstandings ("Why would stay in alone tonight?"). Maybe
it's an introvert thing but I'm often surprised when I see people that need
other people around them constantly and rate time spent alone as wasted.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I couldn't put my finger on the phenomena until I read that comic one day:
[0]. It's about energy generation and expenditure - extroverts gather their
energy from human interaction, introverts have to _expend_ it on those social
moments.

I keep sending this picture to people who know me personally and are surprised
I consider myself introverted - after all, how someone who is seen publicly
speaking so often and finds it easy to make friends can possibly be
introverted? The answer is simple: I like people, but spending too much time
with them exhausts me, and I _need_ to "waste time alone" to recharge.

[0] - [https://danineteen.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/dr-carmellas-
gui...](https://danineteen.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/dr-carmellas-guide-to-
understanding-the-introverted/) \- first link I found, it's been floating
around the tubes for some time already.

~~~
johnthedebs
I'm the same way, and I've heard that repeated a few times now.

I have to wonder though, does _anyone_ actually "recharge" when they're with a
group of people or do they just have a higher tolerance for spending time with
others before they need to be alone?

If you can't tell, I don't really buy the introvert/extrovert distinction and
I haven't seen any evidence that anyone can spend unlimited amounts of time
with others without recharging alone. From my own experience it seems like
there's a continuum from "needs lots of alone time" to "doesn't need all that
much alone time".

~~~
code_sterling
If you read through the comments here, there are people that go crazy when
alone, and people which go crazy when in groups. It's kinda like saying you
don't buy gravity. Sure, we don't fully understand all of the details, but to
say the dichotomy doesn't exist isn't logical.

~~~
johnthedebs
Well sometimes I go crazy when I'm alone, and other times I go crazy when I'm
with a group. The reason I don't buy the dichotomy is that if these two things
can be true for the same person, is there any value in making the distinction?
They seem to describe moods (that some people have more often than others)
rather than personalities.

------
jqm
Although preferring solitude, I have found that long periods put me at
competitive disadvantage socially. I start forgetting how to make small talk
and engage in all the social grease.

I once believed it didn't matter and the time saved could be better spent
engaged in productive activity. But as I get older and have carefully observed
what works and what doesn't, I have noticed that a good command of the social
language is crucial to success. One is extremely unlikely to make much of an
impact nor achieve big financial gains without it. That isn't to say one has
to be nice to everyone... assholes with a good perception and practice in
manipulating social situations often do very well for themselves. But you have
to have command of the language. And you don't get this being by yourself all
the time. I find this unfortunate because in my experience the vast majority
of people aren't that great to spend a lot of time around. Most people aren't
curious. Most people have little myopic views of the world that are badly
mistaken. Most people are frankly pretty dull and I'd rather visit the dentist
than talk w/ them at length. But I've come to realize this is a
counterproductive view (even if it's technically true). The world we live in
is made of other people and we do well when we learn to navigate the river we
find ourselves upon. But truth be told, I'd still rather be locked in the
closet reading an interesting article.

------
somberi
“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room
alone.” ― Blaise Pascal, Pensées

~~~
rapha22_1
Out of curiosity, Nietzsche and Pascal had many intersection points.

See
[http://nietzscheasfisherman.blogspot.com.br/2010/07/nietzsch...](http://nietzscheasfisherman.blogspot.com.br/2010/07/nietzsche-
and-pascal.html)

------
ThomPete
It's all about enjoying your own company.

I have always seen the ability to endure solitude as one of the primary
reasons why some people are successful.

The ability to enjoy your own thoughts, process, reflexions and the self-
discipline to stay with them no matter what they are is what build up
intuition.

~~~
dhimes
Perhaps that is the advantage offered by a trait like narcissism.

~~~
adventured
No, because narcissism does not mean: self-reflection, introspection,
consideration for one's own thoughts, pondering ideas, inwardness, etc.

Rather, it would be more like this: I think I'm the greatest. I'm so much
smarter than everyone else. Whatever I do will be extraordinary.

Narcissism tends to be empty of substance, because by definition it means an
exaggeration.

It doesn't take long to realize that's of no benefit to a process of thinking
when it comes to problem solving, invention, or innovation. The more time
spent on congratulating yourself on artificially inflated views about your own
abilities or accomplishments, the less time spent actually doing. Narcissism
is a detriment to achieving great output, to the extent of the narcissism, as
it's wholly a waste of thought and time.

~~~
dhimes
I think you just made all that up! Narcissism is orthogonal to achievement, in
the sense of having a drive to achieve.

------
yannis
>go into solitude so as not to drink out of everybody's cistern. When I am
among the many I live as the many do, and I do not think I really think. After
a time it always seems as if they want to banish my self from myself and rob
me of my soul.

I always liked this piece, as it fits with me being able to be alone for days
on end, without missing anyone's company.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
The flip side of this is people tend to get weird and ornery without a proper
community enforcing standards of behavior. It's pretty common to not even
realize how unacceptably eccentric you're getting. Bear in mind that Nietzsche
wound up totally insane.

The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social
animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and
church, fulfilling duties and obligations to each.

~~~
ionised
> The traditional christian teaching is that solitude is bad. Man is a social
> animal and can only properly develop joined to family and community and
> church, fulfilling duties and obligations to each.

I wouldn't ascribe too much significance or meaning to 'Christian' teaching.
It has no basis in science or empiricism.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
Whereas the grandparent post and Nietzsche's thoughts are thoroughly
empirical...

~~~
ionised
Psychology is a science, yes, and it holds that time spent alone is perfectly
normal and for a large section of the population absolutely necessary for
mental health.

------
Kenji
Solitude makes me insane. Yes, I am more productive, but I also become highly
unstable. It's a tradeoff. At the end of the day, I value my mental wellbeing
more than my productivity. But good friends are hard to find, and I'd rather
be alone than put up with the wrong people.

Edit: Now I really feel like reading Nietzsche again.

~~~
ak39
I relate to this. I like the way you make it clear that given a choice between
sanity and productivity, you choose the former. But is this not a false
dichotomy, I wonder? I hope!

For me, prolonged absence of close company quickly begins to feel like low-
grade depression ... or general melancholy. I used to enjoy solitude, but the
years and the birth of my children has shifted most of the time I used to
crave for myself. I don't crave solitude as badly anymore. In fact I fear
being left alone. Also our recent financial set backs and a few deaths in the
family has left me questioning the idea of being productive entirely.

The funny thing is that I'm not entirely honest when I get the company I crave
... I begin to display fickle emotions of wanting solitude immediately because
I feel I'm not productive.

I'm really in purgatory right now with exactly that: sanity vs productivity.

~~~
dmoo
This makes me think of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert
Pirsig. I don't know if its your kind of think but there is a link here
somewhere [http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9963-PDF-
book...](http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?9963-PDF-book-Zen-and-
the-Art-of-Motorcycle-Maintenance-by-Robert-Pirsig)

------
sravfeyn
Solitude and Silence are foundation for individual growth as per Indian
philosophy. In the words of Sri Aurobindo (1), a modern Indian philosopher and
mystic,

"The love of solitude is a sign of the disposition towards knowledge; but
knowledge itself is only achieved when we have a settled perception of
solitude in the crowd, in the battle and in the mart"

1 -
[http://nptel.ac.in/courses/109101002/16](http://nptel.ac.in/courses/109101002/16)

------
brakmic
No solitude no peace of mind. No peace of mind no innovation. No innovation no
future.

I think it was Goethe, another great German thinker and poet, who once said:
"In der Einsamkeit geschehen die größten Dinge." \- "In Solitude the greatest
Things happen."

P.S.

I'm not sure if my 'tanslation' reflects the original meaning of the sentence.
Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

~~~
dEnigma
Your translation seems good enough to me, but on the other hand I can't find a
source for your quote using Google

~~~
will_work4tears
Closest that I could find was: "Talent is nurtured in solitude … A creation of
importance can only be produced when its author isolates himself, it is a
child of solitude."

------
webmasterraj
Taking this one step further, I wonder if increasing urbanization leads to
more and more groupthink, because of increasing proximity. If solitude is key
for forming a unique creative perspective, in effect to make sure you don't
'drink out of everyone's cistern' as Nietzsche says, living in cities would be
a bad thing, rather than good.

~~~
jqm
"He who would keep clean among men, must know how to wash himself even with
dirty water. "

