
Stadia Founder's Edition - endorphone
https://store.google.com/product/stadia_founders_edition
======
paxys
The fact that you have to pay full-price for games AND rely on a cloud service
makes this a nonstarter for me. The only way this could work is with a good
subscription gaming model like Xbox Game Pass or PS Now. Or you give me a
guarantee that I can take my games to another platform once Google inevitably
shuts this down.

~~~
yegle
You can buy the game and use Stadia without subscription. You are capped at
1080p though.

~~~
zeusk
Still a no deal for me, if my purchases in Stadia cannot grant me access to
the game on other platforms. Who knows when Google decides Stadia isn't worth
it anymore?

~~~
notimetorelax
Isn’t it very similar to Steam?

~~~
zeusk
Not quite. I can play steam games offline, I can share them with my
friends/family and the most important part being - steam's platform has been
reliable with top notch support since 90s while Google hasn't gotten that even
in 2019.

~~~
nathankunicki
You can only play them offline as long as it can check in to Steam every few
days. If (once) Steam is turned off, it will no longer be able to do that.

~~~
zeusk
> If (once) Steam is turned off

Big if, and if Steam doesn't provide an alternative method or change their DRM
before turning off.

Something unprecedented for Steam over 20+ years, but not so for Google.

~~~
nathankunicki
Steam, one day, will disappear. Not tomorrow, but perhaps 100 years from now.
On that day, you will no longer be able to download or even play those games
for more than a few days.

~~~
gnufied
Will I be alive to care?

~~~
oneshotthrowawa
owning things means that people then inherit things when you die

~~~
robrtsql
The cynical reply to this is also "Will I be alive to care?".

A more realistic reply might be "will any humans even be alive to inherit my
game library?" or "will anyone even be able to run any of my games on the
hardware and software available 100 years from now?"

------
SoupyDolphin
Discussions around Stadia always fail to mention the alternatives.

I've been using GeForce Now with a Nvidia Shield for over a year now and it's
been a great experience. The hardware costs are the same as the Stadia ($130),
it's free to use while the beta period lasts, and you can play all the games
you've already purchased on Steam, BattleNet, Epic etc. in 4k.

Why would I buy all the games AGAIN on Stadia when I can access them on
GeForce now? The social/streaming aspect of Stadia is not a big draw for me
either, so I really don't see the advantage from my perspective.

~~~
KukicAdnan
The big advantage Stadia has over GeForce Now is that for GeForce Now you have
to have a machine capable of playing those games in the first place. If you
have a great gaming PC, then Stadia probably isn't for you.

Edit: I was mistaken. i was thinking on nVidia GameStream feature that allows
you to stream from your PC to Shiled in your home.

~~~
xirdstl
GeForce Now is streaming like Stadia. You don’t need a great PC. You don’t
need any PC.

~~~
SoupyDolphin
This. You don't need a PC at all, I don't have one, just a TV and a Shield,
and GeForce Now works great for me. I just buy Steam games through their
website and it works perfectly.

------
minimaxir
$10/mo was pretty much the only way they could price the service; however I
didn't expect 4k to be the _base_ resolution for the paid service. (thought it
would be $10/1080p, $15/4k; having 1080p _for free_ is interesting).

Google needs to be more transparent about device support though. The stream
highlighted Chromecast Ultra/Android, but not much else (e.g. if there is an
iOS client, or compatibility with a base $35 1080p Chromecast/Chromecast
protocol for smart TVs) [EDIT: the FAQ is more clear:
[https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/9338946](https://support.google.com/stadia/answer/9338946)]

~~~
partingshots
I doubt iOS is going to get access to Stadia. One of the primary perks for
going with Android is that you’ll be have access to mobile gaming through
Stadia that you can’t get with an Apple device.

~~~
endorphone
Google isn't a company that restricts their services in such a coupled manner.
I fully expect it to be supported on most devices where it's possible to
support it.

~~~
lawrenceyan
In my opinion, restrictive would be keeping Stadia to only Google specific
hardware. Making it available for all Android devices feels pretty good to me.

~~~
saynay
I would actually suspect more of the opposite. Their biggest hurdle, at least
initially, is fighting the perception that the service just won't be
performant enough to be a good experience. I would not be surprised if they
start with a limited set of high-end devices (Apple ones included), just so
people don't blame device limitations on the service instead.

------
KukicAdnan
This is right up my alley being a pretty casual gamer. I have a 1GB Fiber
connection at home so streaming shouldn't be an issue, the cost is fairly
minimal, and not having the worry about downloading or updating games and just
being able to pick up the controller and have a quick gaming session will be
perfect. And the cost to entry is very low, so even if the service is a bust
and I leave after the 3 free months, I'll still have a Chromecast Ultra that
I've been looking to pick up anyway.

~~~
PhilippGille
A 1 Gbit/s connection is a great bandwidth (you probably mean 1 Gbit/s and not
1 GB), bit the latency is even more important. If the game movements and
actions lag behind your physical input, this can ruin the whole experience, no
matter if the stream has a great quality (few compression artifacts, high
resolution) thanks to the bandwidth.

I only used the Shadow gaming VM service so far and the servers are in a
neighbouring country, with 100 Mbit/s bandwidth and 30ms ping to 1.1.1.1, so
not optimal conditions, but GTA IV, Minecraft and other games were not fun to
play due to the input lag.

~~~
jayd16
With fiber he's probably getting 1ms pings.

~~~
KukicAdnan
Yeah according to Speedtest.net I'm getting 2ms ping.

[http://www.gcping.com/](http://www.gcping.com/) to the closest Google data
center puts me at 12ms median.

------
partiallypro
I just don't see how they are going to compete with Microsoft on this, or Sony
for that matter. I can't help but think this will be killed off in the next
2-3 years due to low adoption. Microsoft and Sony already have their foot in
the door, and xCloud is supposedly going to be an E3 topic...and I'm sure they
will bundle it with existing Xbox Live services for a bump in price.

Google has proven me wrong in the past, but they've also killed a lot of
products like this.

~~~
owaislone
I don't think it's as hard as you'd imagine. Gamers are the craziest of early
adopters and tech enthusiasts. They'll flock to you if you give them a great
product. Unlike other areas (messaging, social media), you don't need the
critical mass to have a successful product especially with cross-play becoming
more and more common/acceptable. Even if you need the critical mass, it's much
easier to get it with a great product in the gaming industry compared to
others.

If Google delivers a great product here, they'll for sure have a huge number
of users IMO.

~~~
FridgeSeal
Go on a number of the gaming subreddit and you’ll see Stadia is being met with
distaste and hesitation. Gamers are increasingly tiring of the games-as-a-
service model, and this is a step even further in that direction.

Personally I think this will have the same lifetime as a lot of other google
products: it’ll launch, have some success, and then be killed unceremoniously
a couple of years down the line.

~~~
threeseed
People have said exactly the same thing about:

1) software as a service

2) streaming music

3) streaming video

4) digital games

There just isn't enough people caring about physically owning something these
days.

~~~
davemp
People (mostly) already don't physically own games on PC. Steam can in theory
shut right down and most people's games would just be gone.

~~~
blibble
the games would be patched to ignore the steam check, or the steam API
emulated to bypass it entirely

and since most games use the same steam stub this would be a pretty easy thing
to do

------
gamblor956
And the betting on when this product will be shut down by Google has already
begun...right now 3 years is the choice with the most money behind it. Some
fools are guessing Google may give this as much as 5 years.

Given Google's abysmal history of supporting its software _and hardware_
products, see e.g., the Nest fiasco from a few weeks ago, only a fool or
someone with cash to waste would invest in a Google hardware device before
it's proven popular by the market.

~~~
Jabbles
_Google has a habit of getting bored of a service or, if it 's not doing too
well, just switching it off. Can you assure people that if they spend money on
Stadia games, they are still going to have access to them in the coming years?

I completely understand the question. I think there's a couple of things I
would answer to that. One is our commitment to this business is extraordinary.
If you look at the list of games, and crucially, the list of game companies
that are backing Stadia, you can see the level of interest and support. Google
is committed to this for the long term, we have made very significant
financial investments in this. And we have an incredibly dedicated team who is
helping to make Stadia reality._

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48525703](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48525703)

Words are cheap, though.

~~~
ClassyJacket
"If you look at the list of apps, and crucially, the list of developers that
are backing Android wear, you can see the level of interest and support.
Google is committed to this for the long term, we have made very significant
financial investments in this. And we have an incredibly dedicated team who is
helping to make Android Wear reality." Google, 2014, probably.

Words are _very_ cheap.

~~~
Jabbles
That seems unfair - Wear hasn't been abandoned. It hasn't been an overwhelming
success, but it's not been a complete failure either.

[https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44901819](https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS44901819)

I can't see Google dropping it unless Apple abandons theirs first.

------
haolez
I think that an underestimated benefit of game streaming is anti-cheat. It
would benefit a lot games like Fortnite and Pubg.

~~~
atq2119
Competitive games, at least competitive shooter games, are really the worst
application for this though because they suffer the most from input-to-display
latency. Games like League of legends might be fine though.

~~~
blueboo
They suffer from _uneven or inconsistent_ input-to-display latency. If Stadia
can give everyone the same, (hopefully) modest amount of latency, the games
remain as fair as they ever were

~~~
atq2119
I'm not entirely sure, but you may have misunderstood my point. It's not about
fairness, it's about whether it is physically possible to play the game on the
same level of skill.

Talking about shooters, in the traditional multiplayer setup input-to-display
latency isn't actually a concern, because input-to-display doesn't go over the
network at all. When you move your mouse, the display update loop doesn't
contain a network roundtrip. There is only the concern of latency to the
server for resolving which hits actually connect, and I agree with you that
having this latency be roughly the same for everybody is probably quite a bit
more important than how low it is.

With game streaming, the input-to-display loop _does_ include a network
roundtrip, which makes it harder to aim.

If you've ever tried to play a shooter with <15 fps, or suffered from the
mouse input lag that some games used to have on Linux in the past, you should
know what I mean: aiming with the mouse crucially relies on a feedback loop
where you correct your hand movement based on what you see on the screen. The
longer that feedback loop takes, the harder it is to aim.

 _That 's_ what the concern is with competitive shooter play on game streaming
services. (And it's why I wrote that other types of competitive games may not
be affected as much, but it's been a long time since I've played a lot of
games, so what do I know...)

~~~
SmirkingRevenge
If you have <20ms latency (possibly a bit higher), I don't think it will
inhibit the skill cap for most shooters.

If it creeps up into the 40's and 50's though, it will for sure.

~~~
lasagnaphil
I don't think so - the reason I don't use VSync for first person shooters is
because it introduces 1 frame (8ms ~ 16ms depending on your frame rate) of
input lag. It really feels laggy when I try to move my mouse and aim.

~~~
blueboo
And mechanical keyboards make you type faster and gamer glasses make you aim
better and a tincture of molybdenum in your star-water will cure your cold

------
falcolas
Anyone know of a "how will Stadia perform on my ISP" check (all I see is a
bandwidth check, which is not the same)? I'm not expecting anything (I'm on
average 50ms ping to servers, 120ms ping if you include processing on the
remote end), but it would be good to have confirmation.

I'm also disappointed by the dramatic extension of the "you don't own the
games you buy", since there's not even an option to download the titles and
play offline. It gets more worrisome based on Google's demonstrated "go to HN"
form of customer support.

~~~
tschwimmer
Check out Fast.com. If your loaded latency numbers are high, it's possible you
won't do well with Stadia.

The best test is going to be using it. There are too many factors to have a
good predictive test.

~~~
cannonedhamster
Last mile times are always going to cause lag. 5g won't be rolled out for
years, then you'll need a phone to take advantage of it so that's not going to
help. Last mile in US performance is really poor unless you're on full fiber
which isn't offered in most of the US. Even with direct peering to the ISPs,
which they don't have, this isn't likely to be a superior experience compared
to a local machine. They'll have to push the entire video stream along with
the intelligence. That's a lot of data that can't be lagged.

~~~
judge2020
> which they don't have,

Can't directly refute this, but wouldn't you think GCP is peered with the vast
majority of local ISPs (in America and maybe the EU)?

~~~
cannonedhamster
No. I don't not believe they've done this. They don't peer easily or often and
peering with local partners is not something most people want to do, even
Google. It takes trust on the part of the local service provider, which Google
hasn't built as Google is often a direct competitor to their local products.
Peering at the ISP level is really hard because it's all relationship
management. Google couldn't manage their own fiber and built up a good deal of
animosity with other networks in doing so, especially in the US.

~~~
datguacdoh
[https://peering.google.com/#/infrastructure](https://peering.google.com/#/infrastructure)
send to say otherwise. It's in the best interest of both parties, so not sure
why they wouldn't have done this.

~~~
cannonedhamster
Interesting information. There's definitely a bit of marketing going on there,
but it seems that they have at least some peering. Without concrete public
evidence otherwise I'll concede that Google must have great peering.

~~~
Wintereise
Google/AS15169 has an open peering policy.

From a network administrator's point of view, they're an absolute joy to work
with too.

If you're share any IXes with them at all, they'll peer with you. Private /
appliance based peering has additional requirements, but that's par for
course.

Most of the pushback is on the ISP end.

------
scohesc
I don't know why people aren't more concerned with the fact these giant
companies are so large that they're able to take over entire markets extremely
easily.

I keep hearing "man, this <insert_product_here> by Google is absolutely
awesome!" but it's getting more and more to the point where Google is taking
over markets...

It's getting concerning when silicon valley companies are getting large enough
to be their own governments, with their own micro-countries built into their
campuses (Google HQ, Apple HQ, etc. etc.) It's almost like the vatican in
terms of size at this point.

~~~
aroman
The product isn't set to launch for another half a year.

How can you claim that it is already "taking over the market"?

~~~
sigzero
ThE maGic oF GoOglE!

------
Androider
Wait what, Baldur's Gate 3? And DOOM Eternal at 4K/60, they must be pretty
confident about the latency... OK, I have to admit it's a pretty compelling
alternative to upgrading my aging computer. I'll still wait for the reviews /
Digital Foundry analysis, but I'm interested.

~~~
ehsankia
There's a GDC talk by id Software porting DOOM to Stadia [0]. The speaker says
that in the latest demos, the difference is basically not perceptible. They
had a setup with two computers, one running Stadia and the other locally, and
most people couldn't tell them apart.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdz4b5psrhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdz4b5psrhE)

------
ineedasername
As a (slightly) more than casual gamer, this is a hard sell. I have a deep
catalog of games in Steam & GOG, and having to re-purchase them is a non-
starter, especially given alternative streaming services that let me use my
back catalog. It's even more surprising that Google doesn't have some way of
accounting for this because GOG does: at least for a limited selection of
games, GOG let's you link to Steam and get the games into your GOG library.

~~~
sigzero
I think you are not alone in that opinion. It seems like a bad choice to say
to consumers "You have to buy those games again to use with Stadia.".

~~~
JeremyBanks
What is the alternative?

~~~
lancepioch
You could import your Steam/Origin/Gog/etc library of stadia compatible games.

------
bradenb
I think this is a pretty reasonable price and I fully expect to pre-order, but
I'm disappointed that the games must be purchased a la carte. I'd much rather
pay a higher monthly fee and be able to play any games I wanted. I'm not sure
how much more I'd be willing to pay, but I just think that purchasing titles
that I don't own doesn't fit well with the streaming paradigm.

~~~
mfatica
Yeah agreed, I was expecting streaming to be streaming - I don't purchase
individual titles on Netflix. Maybe if it was transferable to PC or another
platform I'd be more open to it.

~~~
snug
> A free tier will be available some time in 2020, as will a paid subscription
> tier that doesn't require the upfront purchase.

Wonder if the paid sub won't require a payment for games in the future.

Even with a console you still have to pay to play online, so I don't see this
as necessarily a huge problem if I have to pay $10 to get the online aspect
and still pay for the games

~~~
mfatica
Makes sense, I went to their site to look more in depth and it seems with the
Pro subscription you get some free games periodically and also a discount on
select titles. That feels like a good middle ground actually

------
vvanders
Really not seeing how they pull this off. Even a couple of congested wifi
channels is enough to put latency jitter into the connection that's noticable.

Back in gamedev we did all sorts of tricks with dead reckoning and the like to
hide/compensate for it. With the current architecture I don't buy that you'll
be able to make those same saving adjustments.

~~~
duality
Maybe a different class of games will do best on a streaming platform.

------
haunter
>We aren’t in your country yet

Sounds about right. By the time it comes to EU it will be abandoned by Google
and shut down in a year or so

~~~
what_ever
> The Founder’s Edition will launch in United States, Canada, the United
> Kingdom, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium,
> Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland.

Disc: Googler.

~~~
krzyk
Still the same, I'm in Poland and they are not there yet :(

From the list I see that they don't have any new EU states and they don't have
even Portugal.

Which is quite strange, because internet speed there on average much better
(fiber is quite popular) than in the old EU.

I think the issue is lack of google servers in those countries.

------
li4ick
I guess in terms of game development, Stadia will be like GitHub. As a service
though, we'll see. Their reveal stream kept crashing, and there was noticeable
lag during their initial GDC presentation.

~~~
michaelmior
Could you explain what you mean by "like GitHub"?

~~~
baroffoos
[https://www.xkcd.com/624/](https://www.xkcd.com/624/)

------
hyperpallium
The problem with clown gaming is latency.

Maybe it can find a place, at the right price (perhaps free), location, game
type, mechanic and implementation.

Here, google says the base will be free, but you have to buy the games. But
will publishers drop their price enough? Would a low-quality version damage
their franchise/brand? Second, will publishers modify their mechanics and
implementation, to hide latency?

The other way is with low-latency internet - so would need to be
geographically close, like a city-sized LAN party. Perhaps Seoul?

Both need to begin as disruptions, selling their strengths (cheap, convenient,
simple, easy), in circumstances/usages where their weaknesses don't matter
(latency, bandwidth), starting small and growing as work it out. e.g. a fun
game that only really works as a cloud game. (is that possible?)

------
bt3
Can someone explain the tech here? Obviously the brains of this is a Google
data center beaming the game through a Chromecast to your TV (or in-app on
your Pixel/ whatever). Is there any tech in the controller? What "costs" $129
if there's a subscription model attached to this?

If the controller is indeed "dumb" (just sending inputs), why wouldn't there
be compatibility with Xbox or PS4 controllers?

If the history of non-main consoles has taught us anything (Nvidia Shield,
Ouya, etc), you have to have games and a controller. Seems Google has games
covered, but why try and reinvent the wheel with a new controller?

~~~
LUmBULtERA
My understanding is that the controller supposedly connects directly to Google
through WiFi rather than going through the device you're playing on.

~~~
bt3
Hmm. Does this mean that the controller is the "brains", and after sending and
receiving the game play data, then needs to beam it to your device? Or do the
two devices (controller + screen) work together to handle some of this?

I fear for the latency in general.

~~~
jitl
Neither device is the brains. The controller uploads inputs. The Chromecast
downloads outputs.

The brains is Google’s cloud.

------
jonathanhd
This is astoundingly cheap. In fact its too cheap, €10/month works out to €360
+ €130 over a 3 year hardware cycle which is barely enough for a not-really-
capable 4k GPU as it is, without costing all the additional services/hardware.
And to put it bluntly, these games are second-rate titles from the last year.
From this announcement I guess that this is mostly just another data farming
play that will never generate a profit on its own and has a very high chance
of being shutdown within 3 years.

~~~
tills13
> too cheap

I'm astounded at HN's ability to spin anything as a negative.

> these games are second-rate titles from the last year

since when were games like AC: Odyssey or BL3 "second rate"?

Of course they aren't going to have all games (out of the gate, we can assume
they are working on licensing) or have exclusive titles (for obvious reasons).

~~~
owaislone
Also not sure if it'd just a licensing issue. I think all the games might very
well be modded to run on Stadia servers. May be the renders are optimized to
send out compressed video over the wire instead of a video output. Totally
speculating but I think it's likely that the games need to be integrated into
the Stadia platform somehow.

~~~
tills13
iirc they support games made with certain engines out-of-the-box. Ironically,
I think I heard that it's the Unreal Engine (sorry, Epic Games Store...). AC:O
and BL3 seem to support that theory.

~~~
ripdog
Neither of those games are UE games, though.

------
redorb
By definition every game requires 'decent' internet. The fact they will still
charge full price for the games and games you could've bought on disc or steam
before are now 'internet required' ... means I'm out. Not just for the premium
version but for the hardware and free versions as well.. After Google Wave and
Google Reader ~ I'm not going to invest solid dollars vs hardware on premises.

------
headsoup
I am surprised by comments that seem to give Google the benefit of the doubt
or do not show concern just because of how other services operate.

It is up to Google to demonstrate they are capable of keeping an 'innovative'
service running long-term, not customers wearing the risk (well it should be
anyway).

Really the only long term products Google has provided are those dependent on
their Ad behemoth. Imagine all the games full of Ads...

------
hartator
> Buy games whenever you want: Yes

Not sure why a company like Google can't make a deal that will include AAA
games in their subscription fees.

------
javajosh
The architectural idea behind Stadia is interesting. The tacit assumptions
here seem to be that the only games worth playing are multi-player, and also
it's a real PITA to build a good gaming rig these days. The first assumption
allows that there must be some shared state; and with the second, you extend
the shared state to include the entire UI, and you use a video codec to ship
it.

Lots of benefits to Google and game authors in terms of DRM - players no
longer even have access to the game code. Nor do they have access to the "low
entropy" network messaging stack. There will be literally no opportunity to
write low entropy bots (although Sikuli style keyboard/mouse bots will always
be possible, of course).

It's interesting to compare/contrast the trade-offs with traditional
shrinkwrapped and more modern Steam/Blizzard style game distribution. It seems
clear that Google wants to leapfrog Steam here, and go toe-to-toe with
Netflix.

~~~
techntoke
> also it's a real PITA to build a good gaming rig these days

It's like as hard as putting together some legos. For $800 you can get a great
setup these days.

~~~
javajosh
Do you really believe this? I've actually looked into buying a gaming rig
recently, and the amount of choices one has to make is impressive. Plus, even
if picking and assembling hardware is easy (and it isn't for the average
person), there is the aspect of system administration. I haven't admin'd a
Windows box for a long time, but it's not a responsibility I'd take lightly.

~~~
nightski
Yes, if you are even the least bit technically orientated it's extraordinary
easy. There are many incredible resources online with prefab builds and
suggestions. It's the easiest time in history to do so.

All of my clan friends none of whom are programmers or even in the tech
industry all managed to do it fairly easily with help from guides and friends
online.

~~~
sneakernets
IME, every time I go to buy a new PC (haven't bought a new PC since 2006!) I'm
told to "wait" until the next, better buttkicker or core i13 comes out. I end
up not buying anything.

~~~
techntoke
LOL... well as soon as Ryzen 3000 series drops on July 7th, then get that, or
see if they have some good deals on previous generations at that time. If you
need something now, just go with a Ryzen 5.

------
owaislone
In 10 years, we are going the have the Netflix, Prime and Hulu for games but
unlike movies I think most titles will be available on all platforms. Not sure
whether Stadia will be a success or not but someone will be the winner in this
market and become the next Netflix for games.

------
jonah
> Stadia is not available in Hawaii.

> Stadia is not available in Guam.

Is this a bandwidth issue? Alaska is Ok though?

~~~
mrep
Most likely they don't have data centers in hawaii and thus the latency would
be too high to stream it from the continental US.

------
dagaci
I'm guessing this is probably walled garden approach, Stadia without multi-
platform functionality, cross play.

I doubt many AAA game Devs are ready to go all-in on Stadia, unless they are
getting subsidies from Google so Stadia will compete with the Consoles, and PC
elites.

What would be great though is that if a really liked an played a game i played
on my Hardware PC/Console, what would be great is that i could simply invite a
set friends to play onetime through the cloud anywhere and all the friends
would need to do is login to Stadia and get to play instantly through chrome.

------
strikelaserclaw
So you order some thin client for 129 bucks, pay 10 dollars a month for the
service and buy the games? I was assuming Stadia to be like a sort of Netflix
for games. I could just as easily buy a console and buy the games.

~~~
saynay
Strictly speaking, the minimum purchase is just one of the games on Stadia if
you are going to be using Chrome on your PC and already own any HID-compatible
controller.

The $10/mo gets you 4K streams (you get 1080p without a subscription), and
occasional free and discounted games (like PS+ does). At launch, the free
title will be Destiny 2 + all expansions (including the one releasing later
this year).

The $129 gets you a Chromecast Ultra ($60), and the controller ($70), and 3
months of the subscription ($30) for you and a friend. Both the Chromecast and
the controller are usable outside of Stadia.

------
eckmLJE
How are they overcoming the jarring effects of input latency? Even 20-30ms in
input lag would turn a lot of people off, or is this primarily for casual
games where this won't matter too much?

~~~
LUmBULtERA
I played the AC Odyssey Stadia/Stream beta -- at least for that kind of
single-player experience it felt comparable to console input lag with no
jarring effects. I'd be interested in how it would be in twitch shooters
though.

~~~
dx87
I doubt twitch shooters would be playable. I've used steam's in home
streaming, and platformers that require precise jumping accuracy are basically
unplayable because even a fraction of a second hiccup in latency can get you
killed. Even simple platformers like Crash Bandicoot can get frustratingly
difficult to play over a stream. If the service gets popular enough, we might
see developers making changes to help out players using Stadia, the same way
that they add auto-aim for most console shooters, but disable it in the PC
version.

~~~
Jabbles
_even a fraction of a second_

This is meaningless unless you can be more precise.

~~~
lasagnaphil
I usually notice input lag in first person shooters when I have V-sync / fast
sync on. V-sync introduces about 1 frame of input lag (0.5 frames for fast
sync), so 8~16ms is just enough to throw myself off. I would guess platformers
and fighting games would have similar kinds of input lag problems.

------
s_y_n_t_a_x
Does MS have a patent on offset joysticks or does noone care that you can't
strafe right and look left without smashing your thumbs together? Switch the
dpad and left joystick.

~~~
minimaxir
The current Stadia controller layout matches the PS4's controller.

~~~
alexland
Which is not a good thing IMO. The Xbox One controller has been much more
comfortable for longer sessions for me.

------
electriclove
I feel like I'm missing something in regards to how this will work. I've
already got a Chromecast Ultra and I already have PS4 controllers. I will be
satisfied with 1080p gaming quality. Can I try this out for free or do I have
to purchase a title? Do I need a laptop/phone that is casting to my TV? Can I
use my PS4 controller? If so, what would it be connecting to - my
laptop/phone?

~~~
ThatPlayer
As far as I know, the Chromecast Ultra has no Bluetooth or USB support. That's
why the new controller has direct Wifi support.

------
notatoad
If I buy a game on PS4, I can be reasonably confident it will continue working
for as long as my PS4 physically continues to work. And then I can sell it
when I'm finished playing it.

I don't understand why I'd want to buy a game on stadia instead for the same
price, not have the opportunity to resell it, and be at the mercy of Google
shutting down the stadia servers whenever they feel like it.

------
b_tterc_p
Is there a risk that they increase the subscription price and hold all of your
games hostage if you’re unwilling to pay the new premium?

~~~
drusepth
You don't need to have a subscription to buy or play your games.

Without a subscription you can stream the games you buy at 60fps 1080p with
stereo sound.

With a subscription you can stream the games you buy at 60fps 4K with 5.1
surround sound.

There's a risk that they increase the subscription price and hold _higher
quality_ versions of your games hostage. Or, of course, there's the suicidal
option of changing their pricing entirely such that free users can't stream
the games they've bought (because what are you going to do about it?), but I'd
imagine they'd shut down the entire service before trying to pull that off.

------
crummy
If you're concerned (or curious) about the effects of latency on things like
mouse movement, here's a simple little tool to test it:

[https://codepen.io/crummy/pen/YboVMQ](https://codepen.io/crummy/pen/YboVMQ)

Personally 30ms seems fine, 50ms I can begin to tell a difference.

------
wooptoo
Why aren't licenses transferable cross-platform though? They give you the
right to _use_ the product after all. One license should normally allow you to
play on any platform you wish (xbox/pc/ps4/stevia) ans even transfer across
platforms.

------
octosphere
I thought Google was just search and a few services like Drive, Docs, Gmail
etc Shouldn't Stadia fall under the branch of Alphabet and omit all instances
of using 'Google' in their marketing? Why use the Google name for something
not remotely related to search?

~~~
mfatica
Because the Google brand is still orders of magnitude more recognized than
Alphabet especially in mass market. I would wager a decent chunk of their
target audience doesn't even know what Alphabet is

~~~
rhino369
I'm not even sure why they tried to brand a conglomerate holding company
anyway.

~~~
paxys
They didn't. Alphabet has zero branding, barely even a web site. The stock
itself is still called GOOG.

------
paxys
$170 base price is a bit odd. Chromecast Ultra is $60, which means they are
selling the controller for $110? For comparison, you can get an Xbox or PS
controller for ~$60.

~~~
KukicAdnan
Where do you see $170 base price? It's $130 and includes

Ultra - $60 Controller - $60-70? 3 month Pro Subscription - $30 3 month Pro
Sub for a Friend - $30 Destiny 2 Complete Edition - ~$100

So even without taking the game in account you're saving 30% of MSRP

~~~
paxys
Never mind, I was on the Canadian site for some reason. $130 is more
reasonable, but I would still have expected them to sell the hardware at a
discount to get more monthly subscribers.

Also, you don't get to own Destiny 2, just play it while you have the pro
subscription (i.e. similar to Xbox Live Gold benefits).

~~~
KukicAdnan
You are getting the hardware at a discount, and besides this is just the
founders edition, you won't need a chromecast ultra to use Stadia in 2020.
You'll just need Chrome.

------
Thyphex
Good option for people with low spec pcs, mac people, linux people and people
without a computer (mobile users)

Plus steam already killed fisical media on pc anyways

------
edwinwee
Overwatch support and it'd be an instabuy for me.

~~~
hmage
You can sign up for GeForce Now -- it already has overwatch. I played it
yesterday on my macbook. Felt like local.

------
syspec
This website is a complete rip off of the Apple.com/arcade website

------
rajacombinator
So what’s the line on when google shuts this one down?

------
Godel_unicode
Hotel WiFi will never be usable again.

------
cma
Doesn't work on Firefox

~~~
techntoke
Probably cause Firefox is much slower than Chromium-based browsers, especially
when it comes to hardware acceleration support for video streaming in Linux.

------
madoublet
Without including all the games in the subscription price, this feels like a
really bad deal.

------
frou_dh
Lossy video over IP is the Pink Slime of gaming.

------
oarabbus_
Is it just me or is google very good at a set of core products, but always
puts out poor offerings when they try to expand into other spaces (G+, Glass,
Stadia)

I read on another forum the best description of Stadia - "imagine if netflix
charged you for each movie on top of your subscription fee"

------
king07828
Surprised by the lack of an ad supported free version. Seems like applying the
lessons they've learned from conquering internet search might be helpful, but
apparently not.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
I'm not sure I follow. You buy your games like you would with any console.
It's just the console is "in the cloud" and you only pay the monthly
subscription if you want the higher quality stream and the occasional free
game (think PS Plus).

How would an ad supported version fit into that model? I thought it was a
fantastic model!

------
sergiotapia
I don't like the Google account being tied to everything, email, youtube,
stadia, analytics, photos, etc. I won't use it because of this

~~~
pkaye
You can create multiple Google accounts.

~~~
llukas
That google will associate and ban together.

------
tus87
Won't work. The reason multiplayer games work over the internet is game
engines compensate for latency by prediction. But when I move my mouse I don't
want to wait a third of a second for the view to change. The problem with
Google is they test everything on local 10G networks with near zero latency
and the servers are walking distance away. Then they produce these abortions
of products that are killed off 2 years later.

Yeah basic input lag is about as enticing as a 2KG chunk of a plastic helmet
strapped to my head.

I bet in 10 years time we will still be playing on a PC with a GPU and a
monitor on the desk.

~~~
vvanders
Yup, as someone who wrote action networked games when I was in gamedev this is
pretty on point. You're not going to get any chance at latency correction so
jitter(which tends to be bursty) on the connection is going to really hurt
you.

