
Buyback Bitcoin After Checkout - marcell
http://blog.coinbase.com/post/89402160917/buyback-bitcoin-after-checkout
======
eterm
Makes it just as easy as paying in local currency!

At this point I don't understand the need for bitcoin. The buyer is
effectively paying in local currency by buying back, the vendor is effectively
receiving local currency by having it convert on purchase.

Why include coinbase in that transaction? Where is the need for bitcoin to be
involved at all?

~~~
JoshTriplett
First, because both of those steps are optional: the seller can choose whether
to keep bitcoin or local currency, and the buyer can choose whether to keep
bitcoin in stock or buy it as needed.

Second, because convert-transmit-unconvert still bypasses many of the painful
aspects of other money transfer mechanisms. Both buyer and seller only
interact with entities they trust (coinbase and their bank), no credit cards
(and associated fees, chargebacks, and headaches) get involved, and the
transmission process in the middle uses bitcoin in lieu of ACH or similar
(avoiding many potential risks, reversals, and the various Bad Things that can
usually happen if you pay directly from a bank account).

~~~
battani
"Second, because convert-transmit-unconvert still bypasses many of the painful
aspects of other money transfer mechanisms."

Using a credit card online or 1-click checkout isn't painful.

"Both buyer and seller only interact with entities they trust (coinbase and
their bank)"

Pretty sure most people trust the bank that issued their credit card.

"no credit cards (and associated fees, chargebacks, and headaches)"

No chargebacks may be good for merchants, but not for consumers (no
protection). Most of the CC fees are reimbursed to the customer in the form of
rewards. In France for example, usual debit card fees are 0.5%, and credit
cards with rewards are 2%-4%. In Australia, the government intervened and all
card fees are < 0.5%. This was good for merchants but customers now don't get
rewards/cashback/points on their card.

"the transmission process in the middle uses bitcoin in lieu of ACH or similar
(avoiding many potential risks, reversals, and the various Bad Things that can
usually happen if you pay directly from a bank account)"

Not sure what those "many bad things" are. I recently received subpar
merchandise from a merchant; called my bank that morning, the transaction was
reversed, almost no questions asked. There was a follow-up "investigation"
that was in my favor. The fact that I can reverse transactions gives me peace
of mind, otherwise known as consumer protection.

It's just seeming more and more to me that companies in the bitcoin merchant
space are trying to find infinitesimally small optimizations they want to
address in the current credit card system using bitcoin. It seems that they're
trying to find (or sometimes create) a problem to fit bitcoin, instead of
using bitcoin to solve an already existing problem.

I think they'll slowly find out, as Coinbase may be with this new feature,
that bitcoin is actually not a good currency to be used directly, but rather
as an efficient value transfer mechanism, under the hood. In other words, that
the real value is in the blockchain, not in bitcoin itself. But I may be
wrong.

In any case, I'm sticking to my credit card (and soon, tap-tap mobile wallet).
Bitcoin doesn't really solve a problem for consumers in consumer-to-merchant
transactions; mainly because, well, there really isn't a problem to solve to
begin with.

~~~
pmorici
"Using a credit card online or 1-click checkout isn't painful."

I've heard this from a number of people as an argument for why Bitcoin isn't
needed. It only holds true for a very limited world view though. That being
people who are well off and have a credit card.

Consider that something like 30% of _Americans_ don't have a credit card. How
do you suppose they buy things on Amazon in 1-click? What happens if you live
in a area known for high rates of credit card fraud so merchant's refuse to
send credit card orders to your address? There are an infinite number of
scenarios where credit cards don't work for people Bitcoin solves a lot of
them. Bitcoin is like the long tail of financial products.

~~~
maxerickson
How do you suppose they are buying Bitcoin? I expect the ones doing
transactions with Amazon are mostly using debit cards or buying prepaid cards
somewhere.

It's a nice hypothetical use of a distributed transaction system, but it's not
how the people you are talking about are accessing the financial system, they
are much more likely to either not buy things from Amazon or to get a prepaid
card at Walmart.

~~~
pmorici
That's the point. Accepting bitcoin opens up new markets an online business
that weren't accessible before because of deficiencies in the available
payment systems. If you have a history of financial difficulty then you
probably can't get a credit card or debit card let alone a bank account. Have
you ever looked at the fees on a pre-paid card? Many if not most are highly
exploitative.

------
gte910h
Right now you only have the choice of a transaction with chargeback guarentees
and other credit card niceities.

With something like bitcoin as an option, you have the option to drop that
fraud overage charge, when you aren't worried about the other party (like in a
repeated business scenario, such as amazon, or for a tiny purchase, or other
things of that nature).

------
cecilpl
So... basically it lets you pay in dollars?

~~~
dwild
... using a third party.

Paypal refuse multiple type of transaction, it's why so much Indiegogo
campaign had their funds frozen at the beginning. If we can't trust Paypal to
keep our funds, who can we trust? No one it seems...

Bitcoin is an alternative, you don't have to stick with Paypal, you have
alternatives, you can go with Coinbase, Btc-e, Bitstamp, Bitpay or even on of
your local Bitcoin reseller in the street.

It's basically saying Paypal is bad because you pay in dollars...

For me Bitcoin was never a full currency, it's more like an independent
intermediate currency. Dollars > Bitcoin > Dollars (or Euro, Yens, Pounds,
etc...).

------
cornholio
Yes, because it's not about spending bitcoin, it's about compelling merchants
to adopt it, thus inflating the bubble, thus giving one the benefits of
hoarding a deflationary currency.

~~~
rowyaboat
yup, and if you're not involved, you're losing out, because a lot of people
are making MILLIONS

