
Finally, it will be possible to flip someone off via emoji - paublyrne
http://onefoottsunami.com/2015/09/10/finally/
======
aaron695
This is a symbol that will be used 10s of millions of times in the next few
years. If not much much more.

The fact it's even in discussion if it should be there is a huge free flow of
speech rights issue.

I'd like to think if you're on hn you see the problems around the fact this
was not there years ago.

I want a world were people can communicate exactly as they wish. Not by a
standard, especially a standard with morals thrown in.

~~~
omginternets
I don't disagree with the premise that free speech is important, but it's hard
to argue that the absence of a middle-finger emoji is preventing people from
being nasty to each other on the internet.

This changes nothing of consequence (but I personally see no reason not to
include it).

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I suppose the advantage of a middle finger emoji is it can be understood
across (some) language barriers, and it's more concise than a roughly
equivalent written insult.

------
cnvogel
The Unicode Standard, Version 7.0 Miscellaneous Symbols and Pictographs --
Range: 1F300–1F5FF

[http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-7.0/U70-1F300.pdf](http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/Unicode-7.0/U70-1F300.pdf)

Chart Page 4 at Codepoint 0x1f595

Description on Page 14: Hand symbols 1F595 REVERSED HAND WITH MIDDLE FINGER
EXTENDED

[https://codepoints.net/U+1F595](https://codepoints.net/U+1F595)
[http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f595/index.htm](http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f595/index.htm)

~~~
micheljansen
Just learned about it's neighbour at 0x1F596 ("RAISED HAND WITH PART BETWEEN
MIDDLE AND RING FINGERS")

~~~
cnvogel
Given that there are 4 possible places between fingers where to put a
separation (2⁴), two hands (⨯2), and each finger could be extended or bent
(⨯2⁵) and the hand could be shown from front or back (⨯2), I'm actually quite
amazed that they haven't shown due engineering diligence and spent a whole 2¹¹
codepoints to, for once and for all, solve the problem of displaying hand
gestures... Even though some will be quite challenging to perform.

~~~
EdiX
Clearly the solution is to have all those attributes to be combining
codepoints over two single base codepoints of RIGHT HAND and LEFT HAND. The
only question is whether in canonical form they should come before or after
skin tone codepoints.

------
Drakim
I've never quite understood the emoji thing, can somebody explain it to me?
Why are "funny" symbols and pictures being put into the Unicode standard? I
thought the point of extending the standard with symbols is to accommodate
languages that use symbols for writing.

~~~
pluma
Part of the reason Unicode exists (other than encoding every possible writing
system) is to unify existing encodings. Emojis come from Japan where mobile
operators used proprietary encodings to transmit emojis in text messages.

~~~
Drakim
Ah, that makes a lot more sense! I thought we had people sitting around
talking about what funny picture to put in Unicode next. It's much more
understandable if it's something that already exists that's being "ported in".

~~~
wodenokoto
I think we have that now. The Japanese emoji that have been standardized are
kindda culturally skewed, but suddenly became very available world wide and a
lot of people around the world want their culture to be represented equally.
Hence the whole skin color deal.

~~~
masklinn
And flags. The original japanese emoji set only has 10 country flags (japan,
korea, germany, china, USA, france, spain, italy, russia and the UK), the
Unicode consortium added 26 REGIONAL INDICATOR symbols used in pairs to encode
territorial flags using CLDR region subtags e.g. U+1F1FA REGIONAL INDICATOR
SYMBOL LETTER U followed by U+ 1F1F8 REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER S => 🇺🇸
(USA flag)

~~~
pluma
Frankly, I much prefer having 26 combining symbols over having to maintain a
fixed list of country flags in the Unicode standard. That doesn't solve the
problem of maintaining country flags but makes it Somebody Else's Problem,
which is fine in my book.

~~~
mikeash
It also lets you have a semi-decent fallback, where you can have some icon for
"This was supposed to be the flag for country code XX but we don't know what
that looks like."

------
arxpoetica
It's offensive, a sad commentary on humanity, and I don't mind being down
voted on Hacker News for stating it openly. (Actually, if you really want to
do things right, just flip me off, yes?)

~~~
waleedka
Agreed. And the OP going out of his way to push for it is sad. There are more
important problems to spend your time on than trying to make it easier to
insult each other. If you want to insult someone, you can still do it in
English. Your freedom of speech is not restricted.

~~~
mikeash
There are more important problems to spend your time on than criticizing
people in internet comment sections, yet here you are.

------
CPLX
I wonder if this means they will stop autocorrecting to the word "ducking" as
well.

~~~
madaxe_again
Why the duck would they? This shut never gets old - almost a clbuttic.

~~~
beefhash
You graduated comedy school with magna semen laude, didn't you?

------
flurdy
And the V sign is there but the reverse two fingered salute is not. Though
perhaps that would lead to too much confusion and accidental offense between
cultures.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign#As_an_insult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign#As_an_insult)

~~~
shellac
Au contraire:

U+1F594

Unfortunately they name it 'REVERSED VICTORY HAND', which might get people in
trouble.

~~~
flurdy
Using this all the time now :) Thanks

------
6d6b73
I may be a Luddite but I really prefer the old ways.. An ability to simply
write FUCK YOU, or FUCK OFF is enough for me and is supported on all
platforms.

------
ts330
Given enough time, we may just have a modern Emoji pictograph set to rival
that of the Chinese.

------
bentpins
It is allready implemented in Windows 10, although it doesn't scale down well.
I'd paste it here but HN doesn't seem to support Unicode emoji, which is odd

~~~
DanBC
One of the reasons is that people were cramming unicode into submission
titles.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10156894#up_10157836](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10156894#up_10157836)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I recall a thread where the title used Unicode bold text - can't find it now,
was curious how HN handled archived threads with Unicode.

------
Grue3
Can you set the skin color or it has to be a yellow hand? For when you need to
add a certain specific racial factor to your insult?

------
dpflan
Here is the link to the full list of new emojis mentioned in the article:
[http://9to5mac.com/2015/09/09/ios-9-1-emojis/](http://9to5mac.com/2015/09/09/ios-9-1-emojis/)

Cheers to more symbolic expression and communication!

------
lighthawk
I'm less concerned with the middle finger and more concerned with the addition
of tacos and unicorns!

------
madaxe_again
Wake me up when you can give someone a powerful electric shock via emoji. A
control character, literally.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
This reminds me of a bash.org quote.

[http://bash.org/?4281](http://bash.org/?4281)

------
sakopov
Of all of the even mildly helpful things a person can do with their time, this
guy decides to rally for adding a "fuck you" emoji and then decides to blog
about it like it's a life-long accomplishment... This is just very sad.

~~~
jstalin
Agreed, people should only dedicate time to things approved by you.

------
moomin
This serves as a reminder that the Unicode standard is remarkable US centric
at times. Where's the guy flipping the bottom of his chin? Where's whatever
the equivalent in Bangladesh is? (I'm sure there is one...)

~~~
kaolinite
Emoji is actually more Japan centric, hence the numerous sushi emoji, bento
box emoji and various other Japanese items.

~~~
moomin
Yeah, that's the DoCoMo legacy shining through.

------
gwbas1c
We've had \\.|.. since as far as I can remember.

------
chinathrow
It's already on Android ie via WhatsApp.

------
beobab
Is it really necessary to have another way to insult people on the internet?

~~~
pziddy
0x1f595

~~~
masklinn
and 0x1f594 "REVERSED VICTORY HAND" which is the equivalent sign in the UK,
Australia and NZ.

------
robbrown451
I'm really trying to see this as a positive. Sorry, but I just can't do it.

~~~
nothrabannosir
No need. The Unicode Consortium is not a therapeutic institution. It's about
humans and their language, not about happiness.

 _The Unicode Consortium is a non-profit corporation devoted to developing,
maintaining, and promoting software internationalization standards and data,
particularly the Unicode Standard, which specifies the representation of text
in all modern software products and standards. The Unicode Consortium actively
develops standards in the area of internationalization including defining the
behavior and relationships between Unicode characters._

\-
[http://www.unicode.org/consortium/consort.html](http://www.unicode.org/consortium/consort.html)

~~~
zamalek
> It's about humans and their language

Particularly relevant because e.g.:

* <OK HAND SIGN> is offensive in Brazil.

* <THUMBS UP> is offensive in the middle-east.

Unicode assigns numbers to the symbols. Humans assign meanings to the symbols.

~~~
marcosdumay
> <OK HAND SIGN> is offensive in Brazil.

Well, not really. It may be, or may not. People use it as an Ok symbol too,
what makes it quite useless for either use.

