
Google blocks China ads that help bypass censorship - metaphysics
https://www.ft.com/content/1091cf20-5209-11e9-b401-8d9ef1626294
======
raxxorrax
Not surprising but still concerning news.

Given the increasing orthodoxy of non-chinese search results, I think Google
is developing in a wrong direction and that it needs more competition.

Funny, but Google has indeed turned its most important service to something
that serves selected content.

In that case it should really be responsible for its content in my opinion.

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neonate
[https://outline.com/UuSSrT](https://outline.com/UuSSrT)

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unicornmama
Somehow I think the Chinese people are better off with access to Google than
without. It’s not like Google is actively developing next gen censorship and
oppression technology by applying a url blacklist.

~~~
raxxorrax
Possible. But it will also mean that Google probably does the same in other
countries and you should not think you would be exempt from this.

It also does justify and support censorship Chinese people are subjected to.
You can argue that is not up to Google to judge the chinese government and
that might be correct. It still cooperates with the regime, so the accusation
of supporting censorship is valid.

~~~
freeflight
> It still cooperates with the regime, so the accusation of supporting
> censorship is valid.

Google is following the local laws, like they try to do everywhere. That
doesn't make the Chinese government any more of a "regime" than the US
government.

Which doesn't even need to make many laws like that because companies like
Google and FB will happily comply [0], with what they expect might ruffle some
feathers [0] before having the regulation forced on them.

[0] [https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/9/11184660/facebook-ban-
arti...](https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/9/11184660/facebook-ban-artist-
donald-trump-penis)

~~~
thisisit
> Google is following the local laws, like they try to do everywhere.

If only that was true. They routinely fight against government rulings in
democratic countries because they can. For example, fines from European Union.
They don't simply rollover and pay the fines rather exhaust all measures to
try and avoid it.

All the while they will rollover in China because that might hurt their
chances of getting into a rather lucrative market.

~~~
Aunche
Part of being a democracy means that Google is free to contest any rulings.
Also, how do you know that Google isn't negiotiating with the Chinese
government?

~~~
curt15
Fruitful negotiations require a rule of law.

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pleasecalllater
Another question: if they do all this just to make the Chinese government
happy (to earn more money), what is done to make the USA government happy (to
earn more money)?

How should I trust that they won't "sell" my personal data to a government
paying the most for that? How should I trust such an entity which makes the
government happy, not the people? Are we really just the product sold to the
people who have power?

It's hard to avoid Google totally as many of the emails I send are stored
later on Google's servers, even if I don't send it from a Google account.

"Don't be evil" should rather be changed to "Don't be evil (whatever makes
money is fine)".

At the same time China switched off the corruption AI, the rumor says that
because it was too efficient in tracking the officials. If Google supports
such a system, what would be next? Covering for selling children?

On the other hand, when Nazis were making the death camps, many companies
happily provided lots of help, all for money. Seems like for too many
stakeholders the money is the only thing that matters, not the people. Even if
this is behind "don't be evil" faded unreadable flag.

I'm not living in the USA, should I assume that Google will work with my
government to do evil against me?

~~~
tiredyam
dont be evil was dropped a while ago. Also, there is no censorship of the
internet going on to appease the US government so I think we are good there.

~~~
freeflight
> there is no censorship of the internet going on to appease the US government

Actually, there is a lot of censorship going on to appease the US government
[0]

I wish there was a free source for this, but for whatever reason, it's really
hard to find one for that particular documentary.

Which is all the more annoying considering that my payments for German public
broadcasting actually financed the production of it.

[0] [http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/the-
cleaners/](http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/the-cleaners/)

~~~
tiredyam
interesting, I will take a look. Granted, I would still imagine that it is not
the same type of censorship that the PRC is pushing. In the states, I can
still talk badly about the government and trump, in particular, that is in no
way the case in China.

~~~
freeflight
I've been online for around 25 years and figured I know most of the nasty
stuff going on.

But that documentary made me question my understanding of the Internet and had
me realize how much of our "reality" is nowadays mostly perceived and shaped
through social media. If it doesn't exist on social media, it might as well
never have happened.

To give one of the worst examples: Pictures of "enhanced interrogations",
performed by US soldiers on "terrorist suspects", are being deleted from
social media with the reasoning "This is a known torture method by ISIS,
deleted for being terrorist propaganda" because these Phillipino moderators,
many just young students, often completely lack any real context or
understanding of what they see.

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Navarr
Is China Evil?

I think we always approach news like this with the concept that it is, indeed,
evil.

Especially when it concerns censorship, which us in the democratic world view
as paramount to freedom.

I'm not convinced that China is outright evil. I think they're just taking a
different approach. Speech can do good, and it can do very bad (as we've seen
in the information age - people are increasingly prone to believing
falsehoods).

While I don't agree with China's approach to speech, I can't say that they're
straight out evil b/c of it.

For those that might reply, I do know that they've done terrible things - and
you have to admit - our country has too.

~~~
duxup
If you ban Winnie the Pooh because you don't like a meme... I think it is
pretty close their approach to speech is purely about self interest for those
in power.

~~~
Navarr
When money is considered speech in America,

Then isn't speech purely about self interest for those in power?

My thought is that we have the same problems with entirely different
approaches

I don't think they're any more "bad" than when are at this point, and
corporations are just trying to do their job at this point

~~~
duxup
I think there is a dramatic difference in money being speech, and the
government feeling the need to shut down Winnie the Pooh.

I still have speech even if money talks too....

There is no free speech if Winnie the Pooh is where a government draws the
line... and I think it is disingenuous to claim that money is speech in
America, is that implying it's not in China? Those in power in the government
certainly work to enrich themselves. Money is a motivator there too.

------
bctnry
I can't understand why people believe that when Google compromise with the
Chinese government on censorship things will become worse in the long run. As
if it's okay to put Chinese in a position where only not-that-good search
engines like bing are available - some people probably will consider that OK
because they do not live in mainland China so they simply wouldn't have to
care. To be fair, that's just hypocrisy.

As for the censorship bit - you guys really believe that when the US one day
do the same thing as the current mainland government do Google will not
compromise, aren't you?

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marricks
Another bold (/s) move by the “don’t be evil” company. What they stand for
seems more and more brazenly corporate profits.

~~~
mlazos
Tbh their greatest product in my opinion was their marketing in hiding that
fact for as long as they did. It’s so effective that even after all of this
the vast majority of its users still view google favorably.

~~~
freeflight
I wonder how much of that has to do with FB also existing and being considered
the much worse offender, thus acting like a "lightning rod" for pretty much
the majority of privacy issues?

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dayaz36
Can people stop sharing paywalled content that can easily be shared from
literally any other source for free? If it's primary content then that's one
thing, but generic news is not something that needs to be shared with a
paywall link

~~~
3xblah
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