
Fortnite addiction and parenting in the age of screens - seapunk
https://twitter.com/PlayNiceInst/status/1070750717671919616
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theseanstewart
> For parents sick of hearing “Almost done. One last game”: What’s worked for
> us: (1) Don’t freak, they’re not addicted (the pathologizing of gaming may
> do more harm than the games themselves) (2) set a timer & provide consistent
> consequences (without anger) when they go over..13/N

On a semi-related note. When I was a kid my parents used to make us quit our
gaming session with little to no warning. This wasn't a big issue with single
player games because they can be saved/paused, but that's obviously not
possible with online multiplayer games. Unfortunately, that didn't matter to
them, and it resulted in many interrupted gaming sessions and unnecessary
consequences and behavioral issues from me and my siblings.

Now that I'm a parent, I've made a promise to my kids that I will _always_ let
them finish their current game before kicking them off. If they start a new
game after they've been given the _last game warning_ , then there's
consequences. They know this, and we rarely have any issues related to
behavior and gaming.

~~~
wlesieutre
>This wasn't a big issue with single player games because they can be
saved/paused

"I need to get to a save room!"

"You can pause it."

 _5 minutes later_

"I unplugged the gamecube because you weren't playing anymore."

...

~~~
worldstarhiphop
Sounds like an excerpt from Bojack Horseman

~~~
c0nducktr
You're right! I can definitely read it and hear an exchange between Todd and
BoJack.

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joeax
I have 4 kids and they're all video game nerds. As the paternal geek myself I
stood out in the rain last night so they can buy Smash Bros. Ultimate.

That being said, I have a simple approach that seems to work. They need to do
something productive to earn playing time. That can be chores, homework,
reading a book, a personal project, whatever. I also do a device-free day
(usually Monday). The end result is they all get good grades and the
encouragement to pursue other hobbies that enable their creative side.

~~~
dgzl
IMO, framing video games as a treat that has to be earned is likely the best
parenting option surrounding video games.

~~~
hnuser1234
Would you say the same for regular physical playtime? Or would you let your
kids go outside and play/socialize anytime, as long as they had nothing else
of more immediate importance? Why would video games be different?

~~~
fjsolwmv
Those are activities are much healthier uses of time. Video games suck up a
lot of time with zero or negative physical benefits and low mental benefits.

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floathub
Step 1: Setup a pihole ([https://pi-hole.net/](https://pi-hole.net/))

Step 2: Configure home router to send _all_ port 53 (DNS traffic) to the
pihole

Step 3: Run cronjob on the pihole to disable fortnite completely at whatever
times you want, e.g., turn off access every week night at 7:30pm, then back on
overnight:

30 19 * * 0-4 /home/pi/pihole_timed_lists/turn_blacklist_on >>
/home/pi/pihole_timed_lists/log/turn_blocklist_on.log 2>&1

0 1 * * 1-5 /home/pi/pihole_timed_lists/turn_blacklist_off >>
/home/pi/pihole_timed_lists/log/turn_blocklist_off.log 2>&1

The turn_blacklist_on script can be as simple as:

/usr/local/bin/pihole --wild epicgames.com easy.ac easyanticheat.net
xboxlive.com microsoft.com

And then the turn blacklist off can be:

/usr/local/bin/pihole --wild -d epicgames.com easy.ac easyanticheat.net
xboxlive.com microsoft.com

Works like a charm, and handles PC + XBox access. Kids know it stops dead at
7:30, so no arguments.

[edited for spelling]

~~~
PyroLagus
Until they get a winning game ruined by a sudden net cutoff. Although that's
probably not a big issue with Fortnite since expected game lengths should be
fairly predictable (average seems to be 20-25 mins from what I've found) due
to the encroaching wall thing. Would be cool though if it could recognize an
ongoing game and cut off the connection only after the game is finished.

~~~
ryanlol
This should not cut off ongoing games, except maybe if the anticheat was
implemented by morons.

I’m not sure it it’d even very reliably stop you from starting a new game, but
I guess it probably works well enough.

------
setr
I never liked the description of gaming as addictive, especially multiplayer
games — I think its more of a special case of socialization with certain
properties that naturally lend to poor outcomes

Its really not that difficult to spend 8 hours talking to a group of friends,
especially when an activity is involved (book clubs, board game nights,
hanging out, etc). There are two major limitations: external responsibilities
break up the group, and eventually you get bored of the people/activity. An
extra one that appears in things like sports is that you eventually get tired.
If you didn’t, you could probably find groups playing soccer for a week
straight and still enjoying it...

External responsibilities don’t really exist in any major form for kids.

Getting bored of a group of people in multiplayer games is trivially fixed:
there’s almost no cost to finding another group, or having multiple
simultaneously.

Getting physically tired doesn’t occur quickly with games: after about 5-8
hours my eyes/head start to hurt, but I’m a-ok after a night’s rest. Any weak
member of your group is trivially replaced by point #2.

So the fatal flaw is the activity... and ofc thats where games have always
optimized for — remaining engaging over long durations. But all hobbies
naturally optimize for this (else they wouldn’t really be hobbies!)

Which all leads to it being really easy to stay on a game all day long,
without being “addicted” to it.

At least, that was my experience. Put some 1k hrs into league of legends per
year when I was younger... but the day I dropped it, I dropped it without a
second’s hesitation. No withdrawal or anything, I was simply finished with it
(half the reason I played it so much is that I had few RL friends, so
activity-wise I didn’t have anything better to do, and socialization-wise,
that was where all my friends were).

I think the common case is very similar to friends made over sports, but video
games have properties that lend themselves to addiction-like behavior without
actually creating an actual dependency.

------
aviv
My 10yo and 6yo rarely get screen time and when they do it's for something
productive and not mind numbing like gaming or Youtube. Every day that goes by
with them being relatively screen-free is a win in my book. They get to be
kids - lots of activity outside the house and lots of creativity inside,
music, acting, painting. It's hard though as most of their classmates are
screen zombies. I just don't understand how most parents don't see this so
clearly.

~~~
theseanstewart
As a parent, I've never understood this sentiment. Gaming is just another
"activity" and to say it's "mind numbing" and not productive is disingenuous.
Sure, it _can be_ depending on the game, but so can acting and painting and
any other activities that kids do.

~~~
WA
Are you a gamer? I play PUBG, I used to play other games. Multiplayer online
Games with a competitive aspect trigger my buttons. They can be very
rewarding. They provide a constant release of dopamine.

I can’t think of any other activity that comes close to gaming in that regard.
Most stuff gets boring after a while. Sure, you can dive in a book and come
back two days later when it’s finished. But after doing this a couple times,
it gets boring rather quickly.

With gaming, especially never ending competitive online games, one can easily
sink hundreds or thousands of hours.

So, as a gamer being honest with myself: I will restrict video game time and
media consumption of my kids, because they don’t know yet how to deal with
these immense dopamine triggers.

~~~
always_good
Agreed. In another comment, someone points out that LoL/Dota2 require a lot of
dedication and metagame analysis to be good.

Which is true, but doesn't change the fact that I look back at all gaming I
did as a massive waste of time, wishing I spent even 10% of that time doing
anything else. And even in my early 20s, I couldn't get out of that "just one
more game" compulsion many nights and it would impact my work performance and
social life. Not really something I want for my children.

I'm in my 30s now and have healthy hobbies again like language learning,
reading, and drawing.

I have a feeling a lot of these "gaming are no different than reading or
playing a sport" are from young HN gamers. I would've argued the same thing
when I was a kid. Not til later did I start wanting to live my life to
maximize my sense of fulfillment and minimize regret, and I have a hard time
believing gaming does that for anyone.

~~~
dorchadas
I realize it on and off. I go through periods where I binge games (I've always
been a handheld fan, so 3DS and now Switch) and then I won't play for weeks,
while I do other hobbies. I definitely notice a vast difference between when
I'm playing games and when I'm not. When playing, I just want to do one more,
one more, and even see the game in my head when not playing, or think about
metastrategy. Thankfully, it hasn't impacted my life, but I definitely don't
want any kids I might have dealing with that until they're able...Though I'll
definitely introduce them to games, just keep it limited.

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epx
Would like to have written this game. My kid is completely 'in' Fortnite.
Going to full-day (bilingual) school next year just to make sure he has
something better to do every afternoon than playing.

~~~
aviv
I'm not trying to be a troll, but really - how are you ok with this as a
parent? Why are you allowing this?

~~~
epx
We don't enforce strict limits, we do limit the daily exposure but this is a
bit difficult when all other friends are also in Fortniteland and nobody is
available to play soccer.

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wyldfire
It's not terribly clear to what the person is responding. What set this off?

> (2) set a timer & provide consistent consequences (without anger) when they
> go over..13/N

I think this has been effective, w/my kids at least.

~~~
lacion
its very effective an it teach a bit of responsability, my kids are still very
young and only have access to a switch and each have a 30 min timer (can be
set on the switch parental control app) that just rings to let them know, but
as they have to share and want to play uninterrupted they plan their day for
that meaning when they grab the switch now days they make sure im not going to
ask for anything becouse all thir daily routines are done.

------
vinceguidry
Blaming social ills on poor parenting does absolutely nothing to help matters
and is thinly-veiled classism. Only well-off people can afford to raise their
kids as well as is expected of them.

~~~
mattcwilson
The article recommends using a timer to limit Fortnite. Assuming the family in
question can afford a computer and internet connection, a timer hardly seems a
reach, cost wise.

Can you connect that to your points affordability, expectations, or classism
for me?

~~~
0th_Place
There isn't just the cost of a timer, there's also the time and effort that
needs to be spent policing your child's screen time. Many families don't have
a parent around the house a lot of the time.

~~~
mattcwilson
It seems like we're all agreed that unmonitored, free-for-all access for kids
onto computers or phones is risky and potentially unhealthy.

Where I am confused is - what might make that hard to govern?

I fully appreciate that the tools 20-30 years ago were not where they are
today. But now?

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triviatise
My kids get to use the internet from 6am to 7:30. Google wifi automatically
turns it on and off.

They need to be completely ready for school before they can play otherwise
they dont get to play the next day.

This has resulted in

1) I never have to wake them up or tell them to get ready

2) they go to bed early at night on their own so they can get up early to
play.

They are 11 and 6.

~~~
Fire-Dragon-DoL
Lol! That's amazing, good job!

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personjerry
I want to conduct scientific studies on the quality of parenting and the
likeliness of said parent to complain about [violence in video games, ant-
vaccinations, etc.].

If it finds correlation, then this study motivates people to not complain
about these repeatedly disproven parenting pitfalls, because complaining would
make you "more likely" to be a bad parent.

~~~
prepend
Please do that study.

Although you could show a negative or positive correlation. Maybe your study
shows that the best parents complain about video games. Maybe it shows
nothing.

We won’t know until you share the outcome. I think it will be cool to know.

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lacion
this looks like a paid article from some involved party, saying calling it
addiction is too much as there is no data backing it up triggers a lot of
alarms to me as Gaming addiction is now officially recognized as mental health
disorder by the World Health Organization.

~~~
gowld
The article is threading a needle, saying that games aren't bad, but parents
who let kids play games too much are bad.

As someone who knows some Fortnite-playing kids, I'll say that even if it
isn't creating murderers, it is teaching obnoxious behaviors like those taunt-
dances and (offline) playing pretend-war in the faces of people who aren't
interested.

An avid Fortine-playing 9 yr-old tends to be more annoying in person than a
2-D sidescroller player or even a Minecraft player.

~~~
ss2003
Maybe the annoying kids just like Fortnite more and the less annoying kids are
prone to Minecraft?

~~~
sandworm101
Or the pace amd style of the game encourages annoying traits, or at least
makes them seem more normal.

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ryanlol
Am I the only one who thinks that threader usually makes these harder to read?
It's really obvious that this text wasn't intended to be consumed in this
format.

~~~
dang
We changed to the Twitter URL from
[https://threader.app/thread/1070750717671919616](https://threader.app/thread/1070750717671919616).

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precurse
Really.. They had to make the entire article a hyperlink to the tweet?

~~~
gowld
Threader is an app that converts a long series of tweets into one page. It's a
vast improvement over reading on Twitter.

The link is a credit to the source.

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microcolonel
I must say: I don't think I could, without shame, say that it's somebody
else's fault when a piece of software on a computer I gave my own child
consumes their attention.

If your kids spend too much time playing Fortnite, stop them from playing it
so much.

