
Finland plans to replace classic school subjects with broader “topics” (2015) - akbarnama
https://theconversation.com/finlands-school-reforms-wont-scrap-subjects-altogether-39328
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crisp
A 25-year-old Finn here.

Like kettu228 explained, those major changes took place a few months ago when
the schools started again this fall.

Along with these changes, some teachers have started to try new techniques in
teaching such as removing all the tables from the class and replacing them
with couches and beanbags [0]. Instead of the traditional (and frankly boring)
ways of teaching, they try to cheer up pupils and make learning more fun. Some
of the pupils are even able to participate in class planning.

I wish these changes had been there when I was in elementary school.
Personally, it really seems to be the right way to go, though only time shows
how it will affect. I'd wanted to learn, discuss and debate more about current
hot topics, learn (more) IT and be part of influencing what we are taught.

[0] [http://nyt.fi/a1305870531097](http://nyt.fi/a1305870531097) (Pardon me,
the article is in Finnish but it proves the point)

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Shalle135
I myself went to a high school which functioned this way. We started the week
in our groups for a 30 min meeting where we set the goals for the week. After
that we studied what we wanted. There were workshops all day with english,
math etc that you could go to if you had any questions. But mainly you sat
with your friends in small groups and studied.

And yes, you were alone responsible for when you took breaks etc. This way of
studying were in my opinion much more effective. Sure I perhaps didn't put in
as much time studying as people who went to traditional schools did. But once
i studied I were much more focused and to be honest. When you sit in a class
and the teacher ramps on about something that is of no interest to you, how
much are you able to recollect?

Also another positive side of it were that if I had it easy for some topics I
could focus others which I had a hard time for. I remember that I didn't study
either swedish or math at all in 6th and 7th grade.

~~~
dibstern
Out of curiosity, did any students from that school go to any of the top
global universities? Like Oxbridge/Ivy League/Etc? I wonder how those students
do in comparison.

Also, as a kid who learned much better through class interaction with a
teacher, your school would have been a nightmare for me, instead of doing so
well in school I likely would have failed. Undiagnosed ADHD is terrible for
self-driven learning.

~~~
Shalle135
I live in Sweden and it's less common for students to study in Ivy-league
schools abroad.

And yes, it's a very special way of learning - puts a lot of responsibility on
the student. But on the first day of the weeks in the group meetings your
mentor checks up that you managed to hit your goals last week etc - and if
they notice that you keep up failing your targets they will take this up with
the parents and possibly make up a study plan for you and see to it that your
in the workshops of those subjects between the agreed times.

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sylvainkalache
That's the future of education, we need to get rid of this centuries-old model
where students are passively learning. Schools are acting as the gateway to
knowledge like in the old days when you had to travel to libraries and
amphitheater to listen to lectures because that was the only way to access
knowledge!

In the meantime, the Internet came up and anyone can access an infinite amount
of information and knowledge. Workers need to be able to learn by themselves,
be able to retrain and retool. Any good Software Engineer is already doing
this, constantly learning new stuff to stay on top of their game, that will be
true for any type of worker.

~~~
aaron695
People have for at least 100+ years had access to "an infinite amount of
information and knowledge"

No one has finished reading a whole library.

This sort of attitude is the problem. Trinkets like giving students things
don't help.

Students need to do work to get ahead.

The best way 'so far' is boring repetition.

~~~
hkt
There is an element of tech company led social engineering going on here:
everyone and their dog want to be able to sell their kit as educational if
they can. So we get told about the wonders of the internet constantly and
schools end up buying iPads instead of books. Your point about libraries
stands admirably in light of this. Using different ways to find out
information is a skill in itself.

That said, nobody is disputing the need to work, only the manner in which that
work is carried out.

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gens
Am i the only one that sees the massive problems with this ?

>But with the new basic school reform all children will also learn via periods
looking at broader topics, such as the European Union, community and climate
change, or 100 years of Finland’s independence ...

>The concept of “phenomenon-based” teaching – a move away from “subjects” and
towards inter-disciplinary topics – will have a central place in the new NCF.

>The answer is that educators in Finland think, quite correctly, that schools
should teach what young people need in their lives rather than try to bring
national test scores back to where they were.

I'm all for teaching with current-time examples, but making them the central
point ? Teaching children "what they need in their lives" (the what) instead
of the _how_ ?

Well they have money so i guess a general education is not _that_ important
for them.

~~~
xherberta
Real life consists of interdisciplinary subjects and requires
interdisciplinary learning. What's the value of picking things apart and
studying "science" and "math" and "literature" in isolation?

In the world around us, these subjects are intricately tangled together.
Awareness of the relationships between these subjects makes the world
interesting and is one mark of a well-educated person. Isn't it impressive and
fascinating when someone can speak on the co-evolution of math and science, or
the impact of literature on history?

In my experience, interdisciplinary study offers an abundance of opportunities
to get at "the how," whereas single-subject study prioritizes "the what."

~~~
gens
Literature has not much to do with science, but a bit with history (depends
though on if you count social sciences as science, but even then art is art).
Math is a _pure_.. topic, although it is very much used in all other
education.

Note that in my country there is no "science" topic, but physics, biology,
geology, etc.

> Isn't it impressive and fascinating when someone can speak on the co-
> evolution of math and science, or the impact of literature on history?

Most certainly, but that is _not_ what the linked article suggests will
happen. The article is a bit more on the pragmatic side (the current world
state). I, myself, would very much love for a physics teacher to talk about
how completely new mathematics was invented when Newton or Maxwell were faced
with the problem of expressing physics in mathematics (we did for Newton in my
school, as i'm sure many other schools do the same for many other similar
examples). Physics and math _are_ very much related, but do you abolish pure
mathematics in favor of only biased topics (towards spacial and forces in the
context of physics, statistics in the context of some social topic, and such)?

When you look at it, how many things are actually interdisciplinary ? Sure
many things are (arguably everything), but how many do you think need their
own.. class ?

Climate change is covered by geology. Community (whatever that means) i didn't
cover much in school because i went to a technical school, but i'm sure my
sister did (although i remember that there was, but i don't remember what
topic it was under).

Things were never pure to begin with, but why go into the other extreme ?

I'm sorry. But even though i think that some things in education should be
changed, this change is, to me, just moronic. (if it is as the article says,
that is)

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aaron695
There's a theory Finland got to the top with the simple three Rs (Which is was
doing more recently than many western systems) and is currently just screwing
it up.

Guess we'll see.

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dang
We changed the URL from [https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/finland-
will-become...](https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/finland-will-become-
the-first-country-in-the-world-to-get-rid-of-all-school-subjects-259910/) to
what appears to be a more substantive (and properly dated) article on the
subject.

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dash2
The problem here is in the first two words.

The idea sounds interesting and maybe it will work. But why should it be tried
at national level? Real progress would mean letting individual schools
innovate.

Imagine if the headline read "Finland plans to replace PCs with modern
tablets". That would be crazy, right? Computer purchasing decisions should not
be enforced at national level. Why is education different?

~~~
xherberta
They are letting schools innovate. That was one of the main points of the
article, that in Finland, local districts enjoy plenty of autonomy in
curriculum decisions.

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zerr
Not sure. Subjects give you an ability to concentrate and achieve more (better
grades) in subjects you like and spend less time on another set of subjects
you're not interested (for the expense of grades).

------
known
I like
[http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-...](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-
home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/)

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joggery
Changing curriculums is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, I'm afraid.
Future generations will wonder how we could be so heartless as to coop
children up in classrooms and require them to study random subjects.

The correct approach to maximising learning is as follows. Help children to do
more of what they like and try to find things they'll like even better. This
includes all video games, btw.

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michaelkeenan
This article gets all its information on from this article from the
Independent: [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-
schoo...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/finland-schools-
subjects-are-out-and-topics-are-in-as-country-reforms-its-education-
system-10123911.html)

I suggest changing the link to point to the Independent article (and also
changing the exaggerated title to the more informative Independent headline).

------
mrtree
This article is simply not true.

~~~
kettu228
This article is partly true. The headline is not. The changes came into effect
few months ago (planned since 2012). Major changes include:

1) Some topics are introduced earlier (like Swedish, our second language)

2) More topic based learning. Learn multiple subjects for example during a
project. (So subjects still remain)

3) Change of roles. Teacher should be seen more of a guide and the student
should be more active in how the learning should take place.

4) More IT. For example programming is introduced in first grade.

5) "Extensive learning". Learn about learning, thinking, communications,
taking care of yourself, working, entrepreneurship, sustainable future etc.

Source: I'm Finnish and checked from the official "Board of Education" site
(in Finnish)
[http://www.oph.fi/saadokset_ja_ohjeet/opetussuunnitelmien_ja...](http://www.oph.fi/saadokset_ja_ohjeet/opetussuunnitelmien_ja_tutkintojen_perusteet/perusopetus)

Edit: Subjects are not completely gone but there will be more topic based
projects that combine multiple subjects

~~~
throwaway4891a
Ah thanks for the link and analysis. Also found these:

[http://www.oph.fi/english/current_issues/101/0/statistics_of...](http://www.oph.fi/english/current_issues/101/0/statistics_of_the_month_compulsory_instruction_time_in_finland_among_the_lowest_in_europe)

[https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_kindergarten](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_kindergarten)

