
Portugal’s Marmelada Tastes Nothing Like Marmalade (2018) - Vigier
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-marmelada
======
bewilderbeast
Portuguese name for quince is marmelo, hence marmelada.

Also, the husks and pits (what remains) of the quince are used to make a
quince jelly, that we call "geleia de marmelo" (a liquid jelly):

[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.docesregionais.com%2Fgeleia-
de-marmelo%2F)

In English you have jam and jelly; in Portuguese we have compota which is jam
made from fruit pulp, geleia which is liquid jelly with a consistency of jam
usually made with the rest of the fruit like husks and/or pits (though the
name is also used for other products like bee's royal jelly), and gelatina
which is the solidified jelly.

~~~
wil421
In English we have jam, jelly, preserves, and marmalade. If you’re feeling
fancy maybe a berry compote.

~~~
portuga
In portuguese those would be: compota, geleia, conservas (preserved in sugar
syrup) and marmelada. I think compote and jam are the same thing.

~~~
masklinn
> I think compote and jam are the same thing.

Jam is generally eaten with something else, compote can be eaten on its own or
be a "base" e.g. you'd spread jam on bread but you'd eat compote with a spoon.
Compotes are jams but in effect closer to mashes.

~~~
portuga
Thanks, I didn't know that. The distinction does not exist in portuguese (my
native language). The word for jam is "compota", and I don't know of any
portuguese sweet like what you describe as compote.

~~~
fiendsan
humm i think actually in portuguese we have: doce, compota, geleia, conserva e
marmelada/goiabada.

doce (sweet) is a sugar syrup with fruits normally mashed, this is not
preserve this is made to be served. compota (jam) is mashed whole fruits with
sugar (pure de frutos). geleia (jelly) is fruit juice jellied or thicken.
conserva (preserve/compote) is whole fruits preserved in a sugary syrup.
marmelada/goiabada is the same as a compota whit a mashed whole fruits with
sugar, but since these 2 fruits create a thick jellied paste, we give it a
proper name.

sot he is talking about is a conserva/preserve/compote is all the same thing,
its a whole fruits you cant spread that, its for eating or making other things
like cakes and such and Portugal has plenty of those as well hehehe :D

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tsimionescu
Just to add to the cultural variety, in Romania, the eastern end of latin
influence, "marmeladă" is one of 3 common kinds of fruit preserves - made by
boiling fruits with no or relatively little sugar (maybe 1:10 sugar to fruit)
until they harden into a paste. Apricot and plums are the most commonly used
fruit for marmelade.

The 2 preserve is "gem" (jam), which is similar, but made with some more sugar
(say 4:10 upto 5:10), and ending up as more of a mush than a paste -
coincidentally, this is the most common way of preserving quinces.

The third one is "dulceață" (which translates ad literam to "sweetness") which
is made with 1:1 sugar to fruit and ends up with whole fruit floating in a
fruity sweet colored syrup (sometimes the fruit are dipped in calcium
hydroxide before boiling to ensure they stay firm) - usually for strawberries,
forest fruit, apricots, even peaches.

We also make a quince jelly called "peltea" (a Turkish word), a clear, stiff,
extremely sweet gelatin. This seems to be the exact equivalent of Portuguese
marmelada.

~~~
oblio
And compot. Cut fruits in sugared water.

~~~
tsimionescu
In my family, compot was always consumed immediately, though I have heard
others use it as a preserve as well.

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edu
Interesting, in Spain we have _dulce de membrillo_[1] (quince cheese) which
seems similar to the Portuguese _marmelada_. And then we also have
_mermelada_[2] which is closer to the english marmalade.

[1]
[https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_de_membrillo](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_de_membrillo)
[2]
[https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermelada](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermelada)

~~~
eyko
Dulce de membrillo and (Portuguese) mermelada are the same thing. In fact, in
Gallego, dulce de membrillo is called marmelo, much closer to the portuguese
word for it. In Catalunya it's "codonyat" (the quince itself is called codony
in catalan, and codoña in some other parts of Spain).

I always thought that the English "marmalade" and the Spanish "mermelada" had
a somewhat shared history, since in both cases, the portuguese meaning is lost
and it picked up a similar meaning (jam type preserve). It's probably because
the process of creating a jam is quite similar to that of creating a quince
cheese, but with different fruits. Perhaps at some point, the word became a
description of the technique, and not of the particular ingredients used.

~~~
riffraff
just to complete the collection: in italian marmelade is "marmellata", while
quince cheese is "cotognata" (quince being "mela cotogna").

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tempguy9999
> Related to but larger and more sour than a pear, the quince is inedible raw

Not true, not inedible, and not necessarily sour. They are oddly dryish (think
the opposite of a juicy pear) but I like them.

Regarding the blocky confection, you can get it easily in london, in the right
place, and I find it offensively sweet. Less sugar and it's be good.

~~~
ableal
> Less sugar

Probably would not keep. The original idea is that you could store blocks like
cheese or ham, without special packaging or refrigeration.

I believe the reason for all the sugar is that bacteria don't "work" above
some level of sugariness, and just the natural fructose is far from enough.
"No sugar added" stuff has to be properly packaged and will spoil after
opening.

(Speaking of cheese, it's good company for 'marmelada'/quince jam, and takes
care of the sweetness. Adding a slice of banana is not a bad idea either ...)

~~~
tempguy9999
Good point. Hadn't considered that.

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mixmastamyk
The Portuguese version reminds me of Goiabada from Brazil, made from guavas,
which are also hard to eat raw. Must be the Amazon remix.

Ha, just checked and Wikipedia says it is used as a quince substitute.

~~~
atilaneves
How are guavas hard to eat raw??? I've literally lost count of how many guavas
I've eaten.

~~~
mixmastamyk
The skin is kinda gross, and there are many small seeds.

~~~
atilaneves
Some people who don't like the skin peel them. I don't bother. The seeds
likewise aren't a problem for me at all.

------
luxpsycho
So, "Marmelada" and "Marmelade" are different words, and just look similar.

They're basically _faux amis_
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend)).

~~~
joaobatalha
It seems that the etymological origin of Marmelade is Marmelada

~~~
bewilderbeast
In portuguese, quince is named marmelo, hence marmelada.

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diego_moita
By far, the best way to eat Portuguese marmelada is with goat cheese, tapas
style.

Slice both the ultra-sweet marmelada and the salty cheese into squares of the
same size, stack them and stick a toothpick through them.

In Brazil, when made with guava paste (goiabada) this same dish is called
Romeo & Juliet, one of the best food names ever created.

~~~
bernawil
Latin culture is about taking vegatables and turning them into bricks to be
consumed with soft cheese.

>called Romeo & Juliet, one of the best food names ever created

The same format here is called Postre Vigilante "whatchman's dessert")

In Argentina in addition to membrillo there's dulce de batata!

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StavrosK
> The quince is inedible raw

What? Says who? It's one of my favorite fruits. I am flabbergasted that
someone would claim this.

~~~
tempguy9999
Replying to all replies,

> Maybe [edibility] depends on the variety? / Isn't raw quince hard as a rock?

quite likely. The beautiful ornamental quince
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaenomeles_japonica](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaenomeles_japonica)
is technically edible but hard and sour. You can see the fruits in the middle
photo of the link - yellow, size of a large plum, and smell just amazing;
really, if you ever get a chance to smell the ripe fruit, do. I understand
they can be cooked to make them palatable.

> It's really bitter by fruit standards, more so than cooking apples.

Not bitter but sour (acidic). Anyway, happens I tried a cooking apple
recently, am sure they're much less sour than when I was a kid. Anyway,
compared to ornamental quince above, the ones you get in middle-eastern shops
in london are much larger. Some examples, but not the right colour, can be
seen here
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quince](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quince)
and are perfectly edible raw and unsugared (edit: size is larger, about the
size of a large cooking apple but shaped like a ruby ball)

~~~
StavrosK
Yes, exactly. I'm only familiar with the variety that's common in Greece, it's
harder than other fruit but not so hard that it's a problem. It's also not
bitter, we have a different word for its taste.

It's not as widely popular as other fruits, but I like it a lot and eat it
often when it's in season.

------
Sharlin
Uh. Now I’m wondering if the stuff we call _marmeladi_ in Finnish is closer to
marmelada or marmalade.

~~~
jeltz
It seems like it is closer to the Portuguese stuff, but not that close to
either. In Sweden we use the same word for both the orange jam (plus some
other kinds of jam) and for the gelatine candy.

~~~
Sharlin
Ah, right, we do too (not very surprisingly). Never really thought about the
fact that marmelad jam and marmelad candy aren't really that similar,
consistency-wise.

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jnty
"In 1524, Henry VIII received a box of “marmaladoo” as a gift from a Mr. Hull
of Exeter. Although the name of the treat was glaringly and oddly misspelled
on the box..."

Was the concept of 'misspelling' a thing in 1524? The first dictionary hadn't
been published yet!

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wtdata
Interesting, I always wondered when visiting the UK, why they have such a
similar name for such a distinct product, now I understand.

Also, I pretty much identified about the part of the article where they talk
about comparing the colour and consistency. As a child I really didn't like
the lighter coloured and/or less consistent marmelada, probably because I was
used to the dark orange and heavily consistent one - as done by my family. It
doesn't say in the text, but in order to be made consistent, it is left to
"dry" at the sun (by a window inside the house) covered only by cellophane
paper for several weeks.

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gfelisberto
So the actual title for the article should be: "UK Marmalade tastes nothing
like the original Portuguese Marmelada."

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29athrowaway
This article is equivalent to: "Spain's Jamon Tastes Nothing Like Jam". It is
an apples to oranges comparison caused by translation issue.

The English name for this product name is Quince paste.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quince_paste](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quince_paste)

------
gerdesj
Marmelade in German means "jam". Orange marmelade (DE) means marmelade (en).
With pronunciation differences 8)

~~~
cyxxon
Yes, but only in common usage of the word. As a real technical term it has to
be called Konfitüre in Germany, as Bretain actually managed to get protection
for the term, even if only they use if to the orange based stuff...

~~~
wirrbel
This mandate only applies to business use. I.e. if you advertise for, or label
products, you must only use "Marmelade" for the strange british thing.

I don't think I have ever heard the word Konfitüre spoken in daily-life, other
on occasions where someone explained why Marmelade is labeld Konfitüre in the
supermarket. Maybe this is a bit regional and up north they use that word (?).

So if I was to translate a novel that features a jelly sandwhich I'd
confidently translate it with Marmeladebrot.

Apart from that, lot's of dialects have their own term for jelly, like Swabian
dialect has Gsälz, and Baden dialect has Schlecksl.

------
glormph
Tangentially, I recently learned about the Austrian insult for (northern)
Germans "marmeladinger" (marmelade-eater?).
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmeladinger](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmeladinger)

~~~
cptwunderlich
Ironically, the historically more "Austrian" expression "Konfitüre" hast
become so rare and "Marmelade" so Common, that many Austrians think the former
might be the German term. So the insult is out of fashion too. Piefke would be
the go-to nowadays :)

And "Marmelade" to means jam in general.

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Elvie
I don't see the point of this article...

Two things in different languages have similar names. so what?

Portugal's Constipacao isn't English's Constipation

Italy's Carrozza isn't Portuguese's Carroca

Spanish Embarazada isn't English Embarassed...

~~~
forinti
But but but constipação and constipation are the same thing.

~~~
Elvie
One is a cold The other is well, constipation...

if you say in Portugal you have 'a constipação' you mean you have a cold...

[https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constipa%C3%A7%C3%A3o](https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constipa%C3%A7%C3%A3o)
links to
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold)

~~~
forinti
I see. In Brazil constipação has both meanings, although it's mostly used with
the same meaning as the English version.

~~~
andredz
In Spanish _constipado_ means a cold or having a cold but according to the
DRAE _constipación de vientre_ means well… constipation.

Or you could use _resfriado_ which means a cold but also contains the lexical
morpheme/root -fri- (frío which means cold) so it might sound nicer and be
easier to remember.

------
gambiting
I mean, in Poland "Marmolada" is exactly like the Portuguese variety,
absolutely nothing to do with the British Marmelade.

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ivanhoe
In Serbia, Croatia and Hungary this is known as kitnikes (pronounced as kit-
nee-kez), from German quittenkäse (quince cheese)

~~~
salex89
Leggaly this Portugese marmelade is now defined as jelly marmalade. The
definitions are basically the stuff our grandmas considered one or another.

We also have pekmez, jam, marmelade. Pekmez should have the least added sugar
and made out of chunks of whole fruits (mixed) cooked/melted. Jam has a bit
more sugar, but I think it should be out of one fruit. Marmalade has more
added sugar and can have more less desirable parts as core or pits. Jelly
marmalade is just marmalade with more gelatine.

~~~
ivanhoe
It seems that everyone's grandma had a different theory on this, as I always
thought that in Serbian/Croatian the "dzem" (jam) is made of a single fruit,
while "marmelada" is mixed fruits :)

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southerndrift
So what's the difference between marmalade and jelly? Is marmalade jelly made
of quince?

~~~
petepete
In the UK, marmalade is almost-always a preserve made from Seville (bitter)
oranges. Occasionally lemon or lime, but usually orange.

Jam (jelly in the US) is made in a very similar process, except the fruit used
in place of orange/lemon is something a little less-bitter; typically
strawberry, raspberry, blackberry, apricot, plum (my favourite).

~~~
dsr_
In the US, a marmalade is a preserve that specifically includes the shredded
peel of the fruit, almost always a citrus fruit. [Sweet] orange is most
popular, but lemon, lime, grapefruit and mixes are usually available -- and
also imported Seville marmalades from England and Scotland.

I'm quite fond of a cherry-orange marmalade from Florida.

There are regional differences in usage, but generally a jelly is made from
fruit juices, a jam contains chunks of fruit, and a preserve might be any of
those things or contain whole or nearly-whole fruits.

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__saykou
Great know I want some Marmelada, and I have to wait until October :(

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itcrowd
Sorry to hijack your post, but I wasn't aware of emojis (flags only?) being
available on HN.. there's no mention of them in the guidelines nor FAQ. What
are the rules / guidelines on them? Are they (emojis in general) available in
comments only or in titles of posts too?

~~~
messe
Emojis are unicode characters like any other, you can use them almost
anywhere. I don't believe there are any official rules/guidelines on using
them on HN, but they are rare here.

~~~
bitexploder
Mine have been filtered out in the paste. They are Rare because they are
programmatically filtered. No emoji in here ().

~~~
bewilderbeast
Someone managed to use them in a post below, I just copy-pasted them...

