
Nest launches an outdoor security camera - smaili
https://techcrunch.com/2017/09/20/nest-launches-a-new-349-smart-outdoor-security-camera/
======
chrissnell
I used to live in Tacoma, WA, which had a lot of petty crime. My neighbor was
a cop and he told us that the biggest problem with security cameras was that
they didn't capture faces and so the videos were useless to police and
prosecutors. People typically place them up high and the burglars wear
hoodies. He recommended putting them down low and hiding them, like in a bushy
potted plant on your doorstep, in bushes, a hole in a fence, etc.

I don't get the point of expensive, tamper-resistant cameras for home use. I'd
rather have more cameras.

~~~
traviswingo
Also, even if the camera captures a face, most local police departments won't
be able to do anything with that image except put up "wanted posters" for a
while. They don't necessarily have the authority/luxury to run it through a
facial recognition system to find a stolen tv.

~~~
monocasa
Even without the need for a facial recognition system, they rarely care.

I've sent them footage, along with the name of the guy who's face it was and
they did fuck all. The guy's in jail now though a few years later for beating
his wife.

~~~
city41
My house got robbed and I found my DVD collection at a nearby used video
store. Inside most of the DVD cases was my name in sharpie. The owner of the
store had a photocopy of the guy's driver's license and the cops did nothing
at all. I called them once a week for months, nothing.

~~~
srcmap
I have good experience email police department and CC any public official
email addresses you can find - Mayor, City Manager, Head of Police, local city
council men/woman etc.

The elective public officials seems to response to these emails very fast and
the head of police is CC.

The public official will put your email to their own email list - I don't mind
that and support them if they act to provide solution to the community
problems.

~~~
city41
Thanks, that's good advice. This happened in 2004, and back then I just wasn't
as up on this stuff. If it happened now, I'd definitely approach the situation
much better.

------
ProfessorLayton
After a lot of consideration, and wanting to stay away from IOT horrors and
complicated setup, I ended up just getting a game camera:

\- No wiring

\- Battery lasts up to a year depending on settings

\- Can be plugged into power

\- No internet, software, or 3rd party dependency

\- 10MP photos, HD video

\- One-time cost of $100 + $15 SD card

I don't need to view photos or videos remotely, I only need evidence if
something were to happen, so this is an acceptable solution for me, especially
considering the one-time costs.

Bonus: I also purchased an ADT sign + window stickers from ebay.

~~~
josefresco
No one type of camera is going to cover every scenario.

A combination of both is recommended. Traditional IP cameras (Foscam etc.) are
a pain to setup, but the new generation of "dropcams" are super easy.

Also, unless you hide the camera well, a thief can simply steal the camera, or
disable it and remove the SD card.

~~~
ProfessorLayton
I agree its not the perfect solution. But I have yet to find anything with a
better price + feature/ease of setup ratio.

A lock box for the game camera is $30 and can be painted to match its
surroundings.

~~~
fillskills
Can you share what game camera you used? I am not familiar with that term

~~~
ProfessorLayton
[https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-No-Glo-Camera-
STC-G42NG/d...](https://www.amazon.com/Stealth-Cam-No-Glo-Camera-
STC-G42NG/dp/B00HMN7H04/ref=sr_1_7?s=hunting-
fishing&ie=UTF8&qid=1505929114&sr=1-7&keywords=game+camera)

------
mattferderer
For simple cameras, I'm a fan of the Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I CCTV POE 3MP
Bullet IP HD Security Network Camera, 4mm camera for 1/3 of the price. They've
done well in below -20F degree weather.

Also another vote for Blue Iris. It's not the most user friendly software but
it's awesome for the price. It can be tricky to get configured just right
though...

I would love to hear if anyone has any recommendations for getting Blue Iris
to do some of the features of this camera, such as compare face images against
a Google Photos API?

I would also be curious to know if the cameras that move & try to auto focus
are actually better. That seems like a potential plus but I could see wind
blowing trees or a squirrel running causing the camera to focus on the wrong
things. Maybe the Nest is smarter & only goes for certain objects that it can
recognize... Motion sensor recording is kind of a pain to get right on my Blue
Iris. Windy trees & spiders cause me to get a lot more video than necessary.

~~~
JoblessWonder
Just be wary of Amazon vendors. I purchased a camera fulfilled through Amazon
and it was a fake. Returning/Exchanging was simple but the difference in the
label was clear when viewed side by side.

~~~
sgustard
To be clear, Amazon sells a lot of fake cameras labelled as such for like $12.
These, some alarm window stickers & a Beware of the Raccoon sign are my main
security system.

[https://www.amazon.com/Security-Realistic-Surveillance-
Busin...](https://www.amazon.com/Security-Realistic-Surveillance-Businesses-
Armo/dp/B01HDZM6N8)

~~~
JoblessWonder
Yeah, I should probably clarify that I mean __counterfeit __cameras.

They functioned for a day before nearly catching fire.

------
bungie4
I work for a large alarm monitoring service. For years, I've been sending
management notifications of new entries and updates in the 'personal
monitoring' space.

Its actually humorous to see these old school guys who have enjoyed having a
low churn subscription service cash cow for decades, be slowly disrupted.

Total denial at every turn LOL.

Why would anybody want to spend less than a 1/3rd the hardware cost, no
installation cost, can be moved when you moved, and no monthly monitoring fee.
They just don't get it.

I sent them links to Nests product announcements today. It'll be interesting
to see their response.

~~~
rhizome
One of my oldest friends now runs his dad's small alarm manufacturer and he is
100% not interested in any new sensors or applications, at least when I bring
them up. Their main goal appears to be stability and maintaining distribution
to -- and the happiness of -- their installer customers. It's one of the most
1970s "independent auto parts store" mentalities I've come across in any
business.

------
codebeaker
I guess it's totally unavoidable, but installing hard power lines (even if
it's 12v PoE) for cameras is really a deal-breaker for DIY residential
installations in countries with brick and mortar construction techniques.

Anecdotally, I've a Synology NAS and any* IP camera can be hooked up to it,
and there are plenty with PoE, etc so what's stopping me having a camera
system at home is figuring out how to drill through 60cm thick walls made of
three layers of brick, insulation and render without compromising the weather
seal of my house... not lack of smart features.

ps. does anyone trust _wifi_ cameras?

(* not _quite_ every camera is supported)

~~~
vm
Ease of installation matters most. Your current setup is way beyond what most
consumers would bother doing on their own

Plugging this camera into a standard AC outlet and connecting to wifi is
easier than it's ever been! I'm guessing you can stick it on with a strong
sticker, epoxy, or something similarly easy. ADT built a $7B-valued business
predicated on how hard this used to be for consumers to do. Maybe in the
future these cameras will be cellular connected so no wifi setup needed.

EDIT: I originally said: "Nest is clearly cloning:
[https://ring.com/spotlight-cam-wired](https://ring.com/spotlight-cam-wired) "
But Nest launched first, as commenters point out below. HN crowdsourced
knowledge based and fact checking FTW :)

EDIT2: original Nest outdoor cameras had a magnetic attach option -- even
easier than the sticker/epoxy/etc path I mentioned.

~~~
izacus
Most houses around here (EU) don't really have AC power plugs on the outside.
Which is what the OP is probably talking about.

~~~
gambiting
If you have a garden, then yes, you absolutely have an AC power on the outside
for things like lawnmowers. "Most houses" seems widely inaccurate.

------
CaptSpify
I was able to build my own security camera with an rpi:
[https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=motion](https://blog.thekyel.com/?anchor=motion)

The motion software is not great, but it's nice to know that my data isn't
being sent off to china or some other bullshit proprietary service.

My next one will be an outdoor camera, and if I can get it to work with a
converter ([https://www.amazon.com/GE-54276-Polarized-Handy-
Outlet/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/GE-54276-Polarized-Handy-
Outlet/dp/B002DN6QX2)), I think that will take out almost all of the wiring
work.

~~~
aluhut
You may be interested in this:
[https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos](https://github.com/ccrisan/motioneyeos)

> motionEyeOS is a Linux distribution that turns your single board computer
> into a video surveillance system.

~~~
24gttghh
Yeahhh I know what I'm trying out this weekend. Thank you!

------
exhilaration
_As Nest GM of security products Michele Turner noted during an event in San
Francisco today, the number one way that burglars break into a house is simply
through an unlocked door. But the most important thing that deters them is a
security camera._

Interesting, I've read research that says the opposite - also based on
interviews with convicted burglars. From "Protecting the Home: Exploring the
Roles of Technology and Citizen Activism from a Burglar's Perspective":

 _Only two participants said they were deterred by cameras. The other thirteen
participants stated that cameras did not concern them because they believed
that most cameras were not constantly monitored, especially police cameras.
Al- though a camera played a role in one participant’s capture (P4), others
believed that most cameras did not have a high enough resolution for them to
be identified. P12 was the only one to describe how he disabled cameras,
saying “I know how to disable [cameras]. I’d spray it and stand on the garbage
and go through the window.” Former burglars generally thought cameras did not
increase their risk of being caught, which is consistent with prior work
[15]._

~~~
dawnerd
At my old house I used to have a ton of amazon box thieves, even when I was at
home downstairs. Put in some commercial grade dome cameras and crime stopped
very fast. I’d see people walk up in the video, see the camera and just kinda
walk away.

I think what you’ve pasted is more for businesses where thieves know there’s
high value goods or cash. In a home it’s more smash and grab - whatever they
can get quickly.

End of the day though an alarm system isn’t going to stop anyone determined to
get in.

------
kenjackson
This article is a bit weird in that it doesn't mention that Nest already has
an outdoor camera that has the features of the indoor camera -- and this
outdoor camera is $199 (like $150 on Amazon).

[https://store.nest.com/products/NC2100ES](https://store.nest.com/products/NC2100ES)

This article doesn't really mention why I'd spend that much more money for
what seems like a very similar camera to the outdoor one already on the
market.

~~~
tehwebguy
Yeah and the marketing beforehand made it pretty clear that they were
introducing a product they don't already nearly offer.

~~~
stevepaulo
We did. The Nest Secure alarm system is the all-new product area for us. The
Nest Cam IQ Outdoor is an upgrade over the Nest Cam Outdoor.

~~~
kenjackson
I haven't seen the marketing, but the story didn't make it clear. Another
poster noted the 4k and face detection, which makes sense as a differentiator.

But uploading 4k from multiple cameras... isn't that going to be a problem for
most home users?

~~~
dgacmu
4K sensor, uploads 1080p. 4K is used to do high-quality digital zoom (with
some tricks like zooming in on person while simultaneously capturing the wide-
field view).

~~~
kenjackson
Ok. That makes sense.

------
rdtsc
> The camera will cost $349 and is now available for pre-order in the U.S. and
> Canada.

Well criminals don't have to break in, just swipe the $350 expensive toy and
walk away.

~~~
crispyambulance
Yes, security cams are good for peace of mind, but they're not as useful as
one might assume.

They're not going to stop an opportunistic crack-addled bottom-feeder from
doing a "smash and grab" burglary.

Good for insurance, however, and check up on old-folks.

------
problems
Wow... that's quite a price tag. For ~$60 USD you can pick up a 1080p camera
with quite good quality, nice Sony sensor and hardware H.264 with no mandated
cloud connectivity - then hook it to Xeoma, Zone Minder, Blue Iris or similar
software and automatically ship the latest motion detection results up to your
favorite cloud storage platform or your own server.

I guess I'm probably not the target market for this though, but if you're a
tinkerer there are some interesting options. And fun to be had in the firmware
reverse engineering department too.

~~~
jahewson
Can you link to a specific product which achieves all those things? The cheap
cameras I've tried either don't support open protocols, or they want to stream
your video to China, or both.

~~~
jsight
I have had good experience with an amcrest camera. It encourages you to set it
up with their (terrible) service, but it also has an RTSP endpoint. It works
pretty well with Zoneminder as well.

Edit: I also recommend checking out the Zoneminder wiki for suggestions. Here
are some pages for Amcrest:
[https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest](https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest)
[https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest_QCam](https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Amcrest_QCam)

They also have a listing here:
[https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Hardware_Compatibility_List#Netw...](https://wiki.zoneminder.com/Hardware_Compatibility_List#Network_Cameras)

~~~
shostack
How is the security of Amcrest with where they stream and store your video? I
can't find anything on their site on where the company is actually based out
of. They just mention that sales in the US are sold out of the US. It's like
they go out of their way to avoid answering the question of where they are
headquartered.

~~~
jsight
They update it for security holes pretty regularly. I get the impression there
are plenty of holes for them to fix, too.

AFAIK, you don't technically have to keep it connected to their service.

------
pfarnsworth
I have a few Nest Cameras. They are awesome, because the killer feature is the
person-detection feature. It's very, very good and unlike other cameras or
software packages like Blue Iris (which I bought), the person-detection and
machine-learning stuff is fantastic and actually useful. I get almost zero
false positives from shadows, etc.

I have gone through the entire gambit, having bought Arlo, Nest, Foscam, and
trying Blue Iris, etc and can definitively say that Nest is the easiest and
most reliable outdoor camera.

That said, I'm not going to buy this trumped up version of the camera mainly
because I don't know what it buys me over the currect camera. The fact this
has made the front page is kind of weird to me.

~~~
ben174
Hmm, I constantly get false person alerts when two of my tiny yorkies are in
frame at the same time. Must see the eyes from one, and the hips from another?
Not sure. It's not super annoying though, I enjoy getting alerted a few times
a day with a picture of my pups.

------
toufka
Does it work off-cloud? Can I firewall it entirely behind my own LAN? If so,
sold.

I've spent so much time screwing around with generic Chinese hardware that's,
well, sometimes great (and sometimes truly worthless). Most generic brands
(that exist for 6 months at a time) have software/firmware that leaves much to
be desired, and is sometimes outright broken, but at least more often than not
at least implement (most) of an open-source IP-cam standard ( _unlike_ the
fancy expensive cameras).

But I have no interest in trading any sort of even theoretical access to video
of my home for a fancy web interface: [http://shodan.io/](http://shodan.io/)

~~~
ryandrake
Yea, cloud-only was the deal-breaker for me for Dropcam (now Nest). It just
seems so silly and wasteful. You have a camera on your home LAN, uploading
video out to a server somewhere, just so you can... download the video back to
your home LAN for viewing??? WTF? Why can't I even have the option to operate
it LAN-only? Just seems like a bizarre limitation from a product point of
view. Obviously their business model depends on upwelling you cloud services.

~~~
cvwright
The idea is that you can get alerts and view the photos/videos remotely when
you're not at home. For example, when you're at work or on vacation.

But for that, you might as well buy a cheaper camera and configure it yourself
to upload to a cheaper service like CameraFTP [1]. It's run by some cloud
storage provider, I forget which one.

[1] [https://www.cameraftp.com/](https://www.cameraftp.com/)

------
ddoran
Hmmm, strange headline as Nest launched an outdoor security camera last year.
This "IQ" model is a new version with higher definition picture and person-
recognizing features. The original is still available.

------
nblavoie
Is it me or the article's photos were taken at a weird moment?

~~~
patorjk
There really isn't a good reason to have used the first 2 pictures. They just
make the presenter look bad. It leaves me wondering what they were thinking:
Did they only take 3 photos? Do they need a certain number of photos per an
article?

------
linsomniac
I was hopeful about this to replace my Ubiquiti cameras, but I really want
something that is going to be PoE. Nest really seems to be all about WiFi, so
I shouldn't be surprised, but am I the only one that doesn't want cameras on
WiFi?

I put up some Ubiquiti cameras last year, we live on a pretty quiet street but
we had some kids pulling shenanigans (a car window was shot out with a BB gun,
our Little Free Library bench was drug out into the street, change being
stolen from cars).

Since the cameras, nothing has happened, so that's a plus.

But the Ubiquity recorder device makes the system nearly unusable. For some
reason, recordings usually stop while there is still motion going on, so I end
up with a lot of little 15-30 second videos that show only the start of
whatever is going on. I've fiddled with it a lot and had no luck.

~~~
SomeHacker44
This is disappointing to read. I just bought an outdoor Ubiquiti camera and
their little VCR-cassette sized device and in my indoor evaluations it worked
very nicely. I was going to put it up outdoors, but maybe I should just skip
that plan and go with a traditional Nest. The indoor ones I have work very
well, despite being on WiFi. I do have a solid WiFi at home, though, with two
Ubiquiti AP-AC-HDs, unfortunately stuck to a DOCSIS 3.0 modem with only 20Mbps
upstream (despite 300Mbps down).

~~~
benjohnson
My opinion:

We install Unifi camera systems for a living - the crazy amount tiny little
files and MongoDB basically require that the Unifi Video Controller have an
SSD for reliable usage - that precludes the Unifi branded Unifi Controller
that has a spinning drive.

Our recommendation: A Intel (Intel Brand) Atom NUC with an SSD and 8GB of RAM.
Installing Linux and the Unifi server on it takes about 20 minutes and you're
left with a more manageable machine.

I would also admit that the Unifi Video Controller hasn't been rock-solid
until about a year ago - current releases now go forever without issue.

~~~
linsomniac
I've been thinking about just imaging the Unifi video box hard drive to an SSD
and then putting that back in place, hoping the SSD would help improve
performance and longevity enough to make it more reliable. I have thought
about setting it up as a virtual instance inside a more general purpose "home
server", but currently I don't have anything but laptops/chromebooks at home
and kind of what to keep it that way. :-)

Thanks for the pointers. I haven't had the Unifi system for a year yet, so I
must be running the more reliable software.

I did do an install of the Unifi software on a Ubuntu virtual machine for
initial testing, and I agree that it was super easy.

So I assume that if you are installing these systems, that you are more or
less happy with them? I was optimistic about it, like the cameras and the
promise of the controller software, but wish it was more reliable.

Have you seen the thing where it stops recording in the middle of motion?

~~~
benjohnson
Yes - before the 3.x branch got stable - the controller would do all sorts of
stupid things - like stop recording at all.

At the same time the controller has gotten more stable, we finally bit the
bullet and jumped to SSDs for all our installs - I think that helps with long
term reliability. I had a hunch that the controller doesn't deal with SATA
timeouts while a spinning hard-drive reallocates sectors. But I really have no
evidence of such a theory.

------
danielvinson
I'm really having a hard time understanding what their target market is here.

Most home users aren't going to pay full retail for cameras, hire a
professional installer to put 1-4 cameras outside, then pay for cloud
storage... or at least not without a huge amount of Support effort. Given
their feature list, they aren't going to be able to compete with the
business/enterprise market due to both having worse features AND being more
expensive.

(shameless plug: I work for a company making enterprise IP cameras, and both
our cloud storage AND cameras are cheaper, while having way more features)

~~~
SomeHacker44
I was very interested in seeing what made your cameras and plans cheaper...
but was disappointed. VIAAS seems to charge $479/year for 30 days of 1080p
video and $399 for the camera. I don't use Nest's new camera but I have two of
their indoor cameras elsewhere, for which I pay $150/year for the first camera
and $100/year for the second (I think) for 30 days video. They also have a
$50/year plan for 7 days of video. It also sends me e-mail and APNS alerts
when it senses motion or people. So, I don't really see how your parenthetical
assertion is true - despite really wishing it were true.

I have evaluated and intend to use a UniFi camera system at my home when I can
get around to running the PoE wires.

~~~
danielvinson
I'm an engineer, so I'm not the best at explaining how pricing works for
larger companies, but most customers do not pay msrp.

Our 30-day plan is $20/month msrp whereas Nest is $30/month. (Your Nest
pricing is not current - you're probably grandfathered on that rate)

Our main market is businesses with multiple locations who need role-based
access and/or LDAP integration for cameras with cloud storage.

------
snow_mac
Or you can spend $30, get this indoor camera:

[https://www.amazon.com/Wansview-Wireless-Security-
Surveillan...](https://www.amazon.com/Wansview-Wireless-Security-Surveillance-
Monitor/dp/B01JGBIFGO/)

Or spend $42 and get it's outdoor parent:

[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J0V6BWA/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J0V6BWA/)

~~~
3pt14159
I bought one of those shitty $30 ones. They don't work. They freeze and then
you have to reset them like twice a week. I'd much rather have something made
by a company like Nest that I know won't get knocked out.

~~~
KGIII
Nest has a history of shutting down product lines and rendering them unusable.
One of which was just 49 days old at the time, as I recall. Revolv was the
product line, though there may be more.

------
NumberCruncher
>> the number one way that burglars break into a house is simply through an
unlocked door

Is this a statement about criminaity or about stupidity of home owners. As a
Europian it is hard to make a difference...

------
wavefunction
Is a security cam really the best deterrent? I figure my two pitbulls would
beat out a security cam on their own merits, though I'd preferably combine the
two.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Aren't home security dogs vulnerable to the "drop a piece of fresh, juicy meat
on the ground" attack?

~~~
Spooks
true! but the time delay of a dog eating meat is random. I would think most
dogs can finish some meat before the attacker can unmount a tv, and some dogs
would prefer to...play.. with an intruder over food.

~~~
bduerst
So then you just switch to the tug-o-war chew toy attack.

------
tryingagainbro
KISS might work best for security cameras. If someone is breaking into your
house, maybe you just need a battery powered camera in the hallway. Like game
cameras, battery powered and takes pictures /videos of the perp. No power
problems, no internet connectivity issues etc.

That's all a camera does, evidence, after the fact, unless you're Scarface and
monitors everything.

------
Shivetya
What I want is an internal security camera that is smart enough to detect when
someone is in distress. something that can record patterns and note
deviations. this is all in the idea of monitoring the elderly. something that
is simple to setup, where a handful of cameras and such don't break the bank
all to give elderly relatives freedom and security

------
gist
> To find this out, the company actually brought in professional burglars and
> talked to them about their “work” experience.

Ones that got caught.

------
fpgaminer
I recently researched outdoor security cameras for our home and discovered
that the the outdoor security camera market is a _complete_ mess.

My requirements were, I thought, fairly simple. Good quality outdoor camera
which uploaded motion off-site (cloud, FTP, whatever).

Apparently, that doesn't exist.

Most of the cameras fail the first requirement. Terrible video quality, tiny
field of view, poor build quality that results in frequent failures, and/or
bad track records with security bugs.

Some do okay on the first mark, but fail on the second. It's beyond me why
most security cameras don't have at least _some_ ability to upload motion off-
site. I have an Amcrest indoor camera, really terrible, but at least it will
automatically upload motion to an FTP server. But it seems none of their
outdoor cameras upload motion; only still images. !?

Hikvision cameras were frequently recommended as capable and good quality, but
they were riddled with security bugs. Totally unacceptable for a _security_
camera.

Nest, from the article, has good build quality, and AFAIK no serious security
issues. But no normal American can actually use them, because for all intents
and purposes they require ~2 Mbps of constant upload bandwidth per camera.
Google being Google requires the cameras upload all footage, 24/7 to their
servers. For decent quality, that means 2Mbps of bandwidth. There's really no
other way to use the cameras without doing that constant upload. Most
Americans don't have much upload bandwidth. I only have 10 Mbps egress, which
means each camera eats 20% of my bandwidth. Totally useless.

Not to mention uploading 24/7 live footage of your home to Google, and paying
hundreds of dollars per year in subscription fees for the privilege.

Cleverloop sells a system similar to Nest, but they they do all their machine
learning motion detection and such locally. So you don't have to burn upload
bandwidth, and you don't have privacy issues. Plus no subscription fees. But
their cameras are unreliable, 720p, limited FoV, and not standards compliant
so you can't use them outside of Cleverloop's system.

There was another system, who's name I forgot, which was all around good and
met all the requirements ... except that apparently all the cameras have a bug
where they often delay recording after motion detection for 5 seconds or so.
Wow...

All the other systems fall into either poor quality, buggy software, security
issues, etc, etc.

Basically, for the average consumer there are _no_ good options. I'm an
engineer so I have the advantage of getting my hands dirty customizing things
but most people don't have that option. Most people need a system that just
works. It's totally crazy that such a thing doesn't exist. And personally, I'd
rather not spend my time building a custom camera system. I, too, want
something that just works.

Well, after days of research the solution I landed on: I bought some plain ole
PoE cameras from Costco. They have good specs (4MP, 90 FoV) and I trust Costco
to vet for quality. Still fairly cheap (~$150 per camera). I bought an old
small form factor Dell, Core i5, 2TB storage for $250 to act as the local
recording station. I'll slap some software on there, ZoneMinder or Blue Iris
or something, and hopefully get it to detect motion and upload those clips to
the cloud. The cameras will also automatically upload snapshots over FTP
(seriously why can't they just upload video!?) as at least a redundant system.

I'm just aghast at how difficult and cruddy all of this is.

~~~
sixothree
What you're describing does not sound like the job of a camera but the jobs of
a surveillance system.

Did you look into Synology at all?

~~~
fpgaminer
You mean Synology Surveillance Station?

As far as I could tell, SS is some feature of Synology NASes. So you still
need cameras, then you need to buy a Synology NAS, and then you need to
license SS (which is a per camera cost after some number of cameras, IIRC). It
didn't seem compelling versus just buying the Dell for $250 + software. And,
again, it doesn't solve the problem of finding good PoE cameras.

------
inertial
D-link makes reasonable wifi cameras that can be used for home security and
they double as baby monitors. You can buy 5-7 of them for the price of a
single Nest camera. They have motion/sound detection (lot can be improved
though). Mobile app is slow but works ok. E-mail alerts with stills/videos are
useful when you are away from home.

------
gist
> And with its built-in speaker, the IQ Outdoor does, of course, allow you to
> talk directly to those random people on your driveway.

Note that this may very well violate certain state wiretap laws that require
two party consent.

~~~
criddell
How is it any different from an intercom system?

~~~
gist
An intercom in theory makes a sound when it is listening in or starts to work
when the party on the other end presses a button.

See this with regard to evesdropping:

"New York makes it a crime to record to record or eavesdrop on an in-person or
telephone conversation unless one party to the conversation consents. "

[http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-
law](http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/new-york-recording-law)

Do I think anyone would be prosecuted? No but the way I read it it's a
violation of the law.

~~~
jpindar
I hope that means deliberate eavesdropping. The street that runs right outside
my window is frequently used by people walking home from the bars, and drunk
people don't notice how loud they're talking. I've overheard some strange (and
sometimes very personal) conversations.

------
bitwize
Great.

Now burglars will cut your internet connection to the outside, _then_ rob your
place.

~~~
manarth

      burglars will cut your internet connection to the outside
    

How, exactly?

OK, so the question is a little facetious, but most burglars won't know (or
even know to consider) that they should cut a particular cable before breaking
in.

In many installations, that cable won't necessarily be visible/reachable: want
to climb a telephone pole to cut what's hopefully an ADSL cable and not a
mains electricity cable? Without anyone noticing you?

Some users may also use a backup 3G/4G data connection, hook the alarm up to a
UPS, and in some cases of monitored alarm systems, a data outage is in itself
an alertable/respondable alarm.

Your degree (and expenditure) of defense will very much depend on your
perceived threat profile, but for the most part, a burglar cutting your
internet connection isn't high on the threat list.

------
gumby
I’m waiting for the “cheap and cheerful” version that runs pictures through
your Facebook account for face identification.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

------
post_break
I have a regular nest camera inside and another camera that does pan and tilt.
The damn nest camera always thinks my cat is a person. Drives me mad.

------
tgtweak
$349 -

No thanks.

------
sjg007
Here's an app idea.. scan your social network find the perp.

------
Apocryphon
The day after August made a product launch too, interesting

------
asdfasdfasd333
can't someone just rip this off your door? _yoink_!

~~~
ceejayoz
IIRC, the Nest cam streams to their cloud service, so you'd have a nice little
video of someone committing that crime.

------
sixothree
The creep and ick factor for this is my barrier.

~~~
sixothree
Apparently it's wrong for me to feel icky with google monitoring who comes and
goes from my house.

