
Open-sourced food production – the future of urban diets? - benologist
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/nov/10/open-sourced-food-production-future-urban-diets
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ucaetano
What is the point of the article? Shamelessly promoting Cleb Harper?

Seriously, there's not a single real argument or piece of data in the article,
just a bunch of complaints about "first world problems".

\- How does growing food locally in sub-optimal scale in urban environments
stack against high-efficiency farms?

\- Cities' water systems are strained and wasteful due to old infrastructure,
and require that water is brought from hundreds of miles away, while some
agricultural areas face similar issues, how does this compares with the
average agricultural area?

\- Why would someone try to grow anything in San Francisco using tap water?

 _“Everyone wants transparency in food. Anyone right now that’s building
opacity in the offering to consumers is going to die.”_

AFAIK, starving people are more worried with finding the next meal, not with
the terroir of the wheat in the bread. Sounds too much like many SV startups:
solving first world problems first.

 _" including boxes that create controlled environments to grow specific types
of food"_

So, instead of growing crops where they grow best, and efficiently shipping
them around the country (freight accounts for 6% of the total food chain
emissions), we'll use energy to create boxes that maintain controlled
temperature, humidity and luminosity so we can grow our favorite crops just
next door? That sounds totally inefficient for me (but I'd love to see data on
that).

~~~
barney54
It sounds especially inefficient when you consider the bad example brought up
in the article--apples. There is a reason apples are mass-produced--lots of
land and the right climate conditions. You can't grow too many apples in urban
areas. I love real apples, but I grew up in an exurban area across the street
from an apple orchard.

You won't taste apples that good through mass production, but you will be able
to get apples year around. Those are the trade offs.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Apples are great in an urban environment -- they're a nice looking tree that
gives a spectacular flower show in the spring.

But I don't know what relation apples have to the OP, though. A controlled
growing environment is generally associated with small vulnerable vegetable
crops like lettuce, not huge hardy apple trees.

~~~
saiya-jin
considering how polluted urban areas are, and how good are apples in retaining
pollution in them (no sources at hand now, sorry), I would not touch those
unless situation got serious.

~~~
lisivka
BTW, you are smoking the exactly same air as tree.

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barney54
One of the biggest problems with this idea of producing lots of food in urban
areas in that urban land is very expensive and transportation will only become
more efficient over time. So why are we obsessing on reducing transportation
distance? Trains are incredibly efficient and trucks will only improve,
especially with increased automation.

Transportation costs will fall, but urban land values will continue to
increase. Just look at the housing situation in the San Francisco metro area.
It's more efficient to use urban areas for people and grow crops where they
grow well.

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logfromblammo
I feel as though the article is using "open-sourced" more as a buzzword than
as a phrase to convey actual meaning.

The only concern most gardeners have related to patents or copyrights is in
their seed acquisition. Those who care at all use heirloom seeds and save
portions from their previous crop, whereas those who don't just buy seed
packets.

Now, if we're talking minimal-effort gardening robots, with open hardware and
freely modifiable firmware, that's a different story, but the fine article
didn't mention anything more in that vein than a vague reference to optimized
tomato boxes.

What would be a more truthful headline? Summary of a Conference Talk on the
Future of Gardening by Caleb Harper of MIT.

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gambiting
I am conflicted on this. On one hand, there's a large push for locally
produced food, to save on distribution and transport. But on the other
hand....surely it's better for the environment if we produce most of our food
on huge mega farms which are highly efficient?

~~~
spacecowboy_lon
Which use large amounts of pesticide and waste if the crops don't look pretty
they are scraped.

And in the UK allotments are a growing trend and of course popular with
Guardian readers.

In the Uk there a duty for local government to provide land for alotments

~~~
gambiting
Well yes, of course, but my point is that on mega farms you can use gigantic
tractors which process a lot more crops than your tiny tractor or even what
you can collect by hand. Just like transporting 50 people is a lot more
efficient by bus, instead of having 50 cars. And mega farms don't have to use
so much pesticide, and mega farms don't have to throw away ugly crops - this
happens due to a stupid system around how we sell vegetables, nothing to do
with farm efficiency.

~~~
stumac
Unfortunately mega farms have issues with getting rid of pesticides and
fertilizers. To ensure the soil has enough nutrients for a desired crop, other
crops often have to be planted as well, no? Mega farms really only do
monocultures well right now AFAIK, and that's a problem.

~~~
ucaetano
The fertilizers are actually the solution to (most of) the monoculture
problem. Other problems remains, such as erosion, biodiversity, etc. but not
efficiency.

~~~
stumac
The increased use of fertilizer tends to lead to the forced increase of
pesticide use IIRC (Source is in my library at home atm, sorry). It also leads
to a decrease in nutrient value from the food as well due to the increased
pesticide use.

From a pure efficiency note, pesticide and fertilizer use is the best solution
in the short term. But I'm curious what the long term repercussions will be
for both human and environmental health.

~~~
ucaetano
In the long term, we're all dead :)

But I agree with your point. Sadly, long term is too long to have enough
information to make decisions ex ante.

And on your pesticide and nutrient value claims, I'd love to see data on that,
sounds pretty dubious to be honest.

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steviee
Sorry for being off-topic but I need to write this down:

The first thing I had in mind after reading the topic "Open-sourced food
production" was "Soylent Green is people!".

Puh, good thing that's off my mind now.

Best, Steviee

