
StackOverflow.com vs.Experts-Exchange.com - fgcc
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/experts-exchange.com+stackoverflow.com/
======
audiodude
Experts Exchange needs to die in a fire. They're the reason I wish Google had
a 'never show results from domain X' feature. This graph makes me very, very
happy.

~~~
Tuna-Fish
> They're the reason I wish Google had a 'never show results from domain X'
> feature.

They do. -site:experts-exchange.com

To avoid typing that into all the search boxes, just modify the query string
for google that you use to search for with the search box/keyword for
searching in the url bar. I have that and a couple of dozen others in the "g"
keyword in my url bar.

~~~
jdavid
FTW, this is an awesome tip. Can one alter the google address bar?

~~~
Tuna-Fish
If by that you mean the search field in a google page, yes you can, for
example with a greasemonkey script.

However, I see little point in that -- searching from the location bar just
seems easier to me. CTRL-t gets you a new tab with focus in the location bar
from anywhere, and I don't have to wait for any page to load to type in the
query. Even if google is fast, it's still not as fast.

Also, you can set up other easy searches. For example, stuff I have used in
the past 2 hours:

\- gis (google image search)

\- gfi (google finance)

\- listof (google I feel lucky, site:wikipedia.org with search string "list of
%s")

~~~
zackattack
Easier with Firefox smart keywords

<http://johnbokma.com/firefox/keymarks-explained.html>

------
dogas
Although I wholeheartedly agree that StackOverflow is orders of magnitude
nicer than experts exchange, I really don't trust compete and their numbers.

compete reported a sharp decline of unique visitors to our site in nov and
dec, even though those were are best months ever for both traffic and business
(according to google analytics, and our bank acocunt). Of course there's
nothing we can really do about it. What can you do? Complain? Write a flame
blog post? Compete's numbers are not solid, they are all estimated from some
crazy algorithm. It would be nice to just brush it off, but when potential
customers are looking at compete and thinking we are tanking, it's bad news.

~~~
almost
I think this is an important point. As much as it's nice to think that SO is
destroying EE. There's no evidence that compete.com's numbers are anything but
fiction.

~~~
ptomato
Yes, but Alexa says the same thing and has for a while.

~~~
sesqu
I really wouldn't trust Alexa on that either. As far as I know, their sole
source of data is a toolbar.

~~~
alanstorm
Traffic reporting companies are, more or less, the credit ratings agencies of
the web. Their numbers tell you something, but never what they claim to.

------
figital
I really don't like the way Experts Exchange cheats the Google indexer. You
can still scroll down to the bottom of their pages now and/or just read what's
in the Google cache ... but it's always seemed disingenuous. Either than or
give me the option to search for non-paid content. I don't believe
stackoverflow has ever user-agent-sniff-cheated.

~~~
stusmith1977
You can only scroll down if visiting from Google. Copying the URL and pasting
it into your browser returns a page without the answer. I'm suprised Google
didn't exclude them years ago. (Apologies if that's what you meant).

~~~
raganwald
I didn't know this and I'm amazed. They've been receiving complaints about
experts exchange for years. Why haven't they been tossed into the black hole?
What motivates Google to allow sites like this to get the top hit on searches?

~~~
patio11
Google will happily show garbage rather than showing _nothing_. (Welcome to
the entire business model of some companies.)

Experts Exchange plays _right_ on the edge of what their policies allow, but
previously they have backed off in response to feedback, and nixing them would
cost Google millions of searches in a key influencer demographic getting
_nothing_.

~~~
raganwald
Thanks for the response. Perhaps I don't understand how search engines work:
If I search for a programming term and EE is the top result, what do Google
lose if they kill or seriously de-prioritize the EE link? Wouldn't Google just
show me the rest of the links?

It's not like EE pages are the _only_ result for searches...

~~~
patio11
Yeah, but for the kind of searches EE is winning for, all or most of the rest
of the links are garbage.

Think like a junior developer for writing queries needed to write Big Freaking
Enterprise backend software. For example, the first thing that popped into my
head for a query likely to generate an EE result was [sort combobox java] --
it is something that you'll actually have to do for Big Freaking Enterprise
development, it uses an "unsexy" programming language, and the phrasing is
just off enough that people who know what they're talking about wouldn't
phrase their pages that way.

And sure enough, EE wins. See <http://www.pastie.org/881242> for the other
results with my annotations.

~~~
raganwald
Interesting. Do they develop this organically or are they doing some keyword
arbitrage-type stuff to include the keywords nobody else is hitting?

~~~
piramida
No, but the sheer amount of junior developers who asked questions there over
the last 10 years guaranteed that every possible way to incorrectly phrase a
question is already answered.

SO is - better open model, better interface, but lacks volume especially in
some areas, and lacks trolling-question controls (i.e. "which language is
better" type of million-answer threads). But it will mature, I find it
interesting enough to contribute.

------
smartbear
It's interesting that the sum of their traffic is relatively constant.

That implies SO really is eating at their traffic specifically. But it also
implies SO isn't encouraging new traffic, and that the general market for Q&A
isn't growing.

~~~
Confusion
I found it interesting that the sum actually _isn't_ relatively constant. The
sum is steadily declining from 1.89M in februari 2009 to 1.65M in februari
2010. Given the ongoing growth of the internet (and the population), the total
traffic should have increased, making the shrinkage all the more interesting.
I'm guessing there are either Asian sites eating away a substantial market
share or that the measurement methodology of Compete has been changing.

~~~
alanstorm
My guess would be on their measurement methodology. The about page reads: "We
have a diverse sample of 2,000,000+ U.S. Internet users that have given us
permission to analyze the web pages they visit and ask them questions via
surveys." That translates as sketchy toolbar/shareware installs and checkboxes
that are checked by default.

~~~
iron_ball
And that means this stat likely does not reflect the usage habits of
technically proficient users, because they are the least likely to have
allowed those grayware installs.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
Which would imply SO's traffic is _dramatically_ under-reported. In fact,
August they had a blog post that indicates Compete's data is off by a factor
of 15, and this was 7 months ago! [http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/08/one-
year-of-stack-over...](http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2009/08/one-year-of-
stack-overflow/)

------
mootothemax
The thing I hate about Experts Exchange is that it utterly hates users. Trying
to use their site is an exercise in repeatedly irritated.

Stack Overflow on the other hand, is a delight, although I still find myself
using Google to search their site, as I think their search engine stinks when
you're trying to find answers ;)

Although to be fair, EE hasn't been the same since they inserted the hyphen
into their URL ;)

~~~
tseabrooks
If I recall Jeff and Joel, in one of their podcasts, said their ideal
situation was that people would visit the site via Google. They acknowledged
that they didn't think they could improve search beyond what Google offered
and expected / intended for the overwhelming (I think they said it was
something like 95%) number of vistors to be from Google.

------
kneath
Funny that SO now has more traffic than EE, but doesn't seem to be making
(any?) money while EE is still raking in millions.

I guess what's even more interesting is that Experts Exchange was in this
_exact_ position some years ago. Everything was free, open, easy to find. Then
they sought out VC money and started talking how to turn a profit. Fast
forward a while and you have what you see now: an extremely profitable site
with questionable morals.

Makes you wonder what's going to happen to SO after they get the VC funding
they're looking for.

------
solutionyogi
For me, Google index cheating is not that big of a deal.

The fact is, Experts-Exchange.com sucks.

Even though it mainly targets programming questions, it doesn't even provide
syntax highlighting for the code!

And now they added a BIG banner at the bottom to encourage you to sign up.

Check this question:

[http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=c%23+generics+exper...](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=c%23+generics+experts+exchange&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=)

[Giving Google link so that you can actually see the answer.]

There is no way to directly link to a particular answer.

And answers have those 'text-hover-ads' popup, I hate them.

StackOverflow is infinitely superior and I am not surprised that they are
destroying Experts-Exchange. Good riddance.

~~~
grogers
haha, there is a banner ad: "Tired of scrolling?"

------
snewe
Is it really eating away at EE or is it just a huge growth in support
questions for Rails, iPhone, CSS, jquery that SO has an advantage in? The top
search term for EE is Microsoft Outlook, while the top (non brand) search term
for SO is "from_tag rails." Seems like search demographics are a huge part of
the relative growth differences.

------
edd
Google's take on the situation:
[http://trends.google.com/websites?q=stackoverflow.com,+exper...](http://trends.google.com/websites?q=stackoverflow.com,+experts-
exchange.com)

~~~
jrockway
Looks like everyone took a nice end-of-year vacation from both sites.

------
cmgarcia
I couldn't imagine a better competition. I am utterly elated, as a junior
developer, to have Stack Overflow as a resource as well as to see it knocking
at Expert Exchanges' door.

------
csomar
I wonder what this site (<http://www.best-family-photography-tips.com/>) do in
Experts-Exchange top referral sites.

------
smackfu
StackOverflow still generally doesn't come up in my Google searches, maybe
because the technical stuff I work on isn't the same as their audience.

For instance, compare the number of DB2 questions to the number of MySql
questions: 363 vs. 14567

<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/db2>
<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/mysql>

Experts-Exchange and various other sites of that ilk sadly have much better
coverage of some topics.

------
RyanMcGreal
And that's among users who couldn't figure out how _not_ to add a Compete.com
toolbar to their browsers.

------
vital101
Answers on top > Scrolling all the way to the bottom for answers.

~~~
compay
But only when you follow a Google search result link. If you bookmark it and
come back, or follow any other link, then the result does not appear.

Edit: I meant to say, the __replies __do not appear.

------
mjhnghfh
Stackoverflow vs codeproject would be more interesting.

Although I use SO daily and have 20k rep, CodeProject is still better for
posting, supporting and asking question on specific code.

It would be a shame if SO destroyed CodeProject. Especially for anyone stuck
on MFC it's vital.

------
dpritchett
I'm sure there are external variables I'm not seeing but this graph makes it
look as if SO's growth has all been at the expense of Experts Exchange. The
total readership seems to have held steady at just north of 1.5M monthly for
the last year.

------
hopeless
What's interesting about these numbers is not that SO has finally surpassed
EE... but that it has only _just_ happened. Seriously, I'd assumed SO had
beaten them into the ground a year ago!

~~~
spolsky
We did, by any reasonable measurement. Compete undercounts us ridiculously.
Alexa and Quantcast showed us passing them months ago.

~~~
adelevie
How do you know that Compete, Alexa, or Quantcast haven't undercounted Experts
Exchange?

~~~
JoachimSchipper
Well, it does make some sense to assume that the majority is right...

------
adelevie
I wonder what their respective profits and revenues are. If they were publicly
traded companies, wolframalpha would be nice to use.

Also keep in mind that with SO, Spolsky and crew have proven out a highly
successful platform that can be extended to almost any subject. SO makes money
and the StackExchange platform makes money.

ExpertExchange seems like a forum with just a paywall. So on the other hand, I
give props to anyone who can turn a plain vanilla web forum with zero
envelope-pushing technology into a profitable business.

~~~
morisy
"SO makes money and the StackExchange platform makes money."

If StackOverflow was really _profitable_ , they probably wouldn't have been
messing around with Google Ads and Amazon book affiliate links. Those things
make 0 money, even Jeff's own admission (<http://bit.ly/bbIUuh>). Those
sponsored categories might be turning some cash, but I still doubt they're
making as much profit as E-E, evil as they are.

~~~
adelevie
Fair point. I'm sure SO brings in at least some revenue. Think of that as a
subsidy to develop and prove the desirability of the platform, which I'm sure
is/will be very lucrative for Spolsky.

------
Aegean
I am glad to see this. Experts exchange is an oldschool clunky website with a
very boring IT look & feel. I hate it because I would like to transfer my
wisdom to people but it is so hacker unfriendly with ads and free trials. Free
trial for transferring my valuable experience? No.

------
100k
It's good to have an enemy. SO has been targeted at destroying Experts
Exchange from the beginning.

------
verdant
one of the early stated goals of Stack Overflow was to be a better version of
Experts Exchange. It looks like they are accomplishing that goal, in terms of
users switching (which of course, the graph does not prove but does seem to
suggest).

------
Znupi
go go stackoverflow!

------
papachito
Shameless plug, I built an open source version of stackexchange with some
friends: <http://shapado.com>

~~~
proee
Nice... How many hours did it take you to make that?

~~~
gridspy
Did you do it in a weekend? ;)

~~~
papachito
Heh, no I didn't. I remember someone making that claim on HN but it sure
wasn't me :)

------
dnsworks
I've always found that experts-exchange was really scammy. For a while they
weren't so bad when you could view their otherwise login-protected data via
google's cached content, but eventually they figured out a way around that.
This always seemed to me to be a violation of Google's TOS.

------
stevenp
Ohhhhhhh, now I get it! I always thought it was "Expert Sex Change"!

~~~
jrockway
"s-ex" is an odd way to spell sex. Hint: the non-hyphenated domain-name is not
them.

