
Auto makers are figuring out how to monetize drivers’ data - petethomas
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-your-car-knows-about-you-1534564861
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taneq
> Later this year, GM also plans to introduce a new feature that can detect
> when a vehicle’s fuel tank is low and then offer a coupon on the car’s
> display for a discount at a nearby gas station, said Brian Hoglund, a
> business development director for GCCX, GM’s connectivity unit. Retailers
> then pay GM a fee for steering customers their way.

And every time someone says "but how does it harm me for advertisers to know
everything about me?", THIS is the answer. It's not just "finding things you
might like to buy". It's "auctioning you off to vendors based on how badly you
need the thing." The market is an information game and if one side knows more
than the other, then they have an advantage.

Really think it'll stop at helpfully suggesting a nearby gas station, when
Station A can just pay $1/customer extra for GM to send people their way
instead of to Station B who are charging $1/gallon less but haven't paid extra
to GM?

Really think it'll stop _there_ , when GM can get an extra $1/customer by
telling Station A that you're critically low on gas and can't make it to
another gas station, so they can gouge you $5/gallon and you have no choice to
pay it?

Allowing your personal information to be indiscriminately mined and sold is
bad for you and this is why.

~~~
T-hawk
> so they can gouge you $5/gallon and you have no choice to pay it

You can, of course, buy only the minimum you need to make it to another
station instead.

Fundamentally, what's happening here is a temporary very localized monopoly,
that you created by letting your fuel supply get so low. If you put yourself
in a situation where you can reach only one fuel supplier, the economic
consequences are your own fault.

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
If you can only reach one supplier, then why would they bother to pay to
advertise to you? They're the only option.

EDIT to clarify: I'm not trying to argue here, I sincerely don't understand
how this is supposed to work.

~~~
T-hawk
The supplier would pay the intermediary (the operator of the tracking system)
for the information that you can only reach one supplier. They pay to learn
that the temporary localized monopoly exists.

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expertentipp
How much I enjoy my over 10 years old non drive-by-wire, no in-dash navigation
(just buy a 300 EUR navigation with free lifetime map updates), no hybrid, no
engine-downsized car. I'll not let it go until the wheels will start to fall
off.

~~~
Silhouette
I couldn't agree more. I dread the day when my government decides to force my
older car off the road because of something about environmental standards and
efficiency not being up to modern standards.

It's true that modern standards for the mechanics and driving controls in cars
are a significant improvement on what I have. Sadly, modern standards for
_everything else_ they bundle in these days seem to be a huge step backwards.
I want them about as much as I want a "smart" home and a "smart" phone.

It's sad, because I enjoy playing with new technologies and would love to have
the benefits of recent advances and devices, but for me the risks and costs in
terms of security, privacy and safety are often too high to use a lot of these
things. I'm starting to feel like the older relative we all seem to have who
doesn't know how to use a computer...

(Edit: Fortunately, as you demonstrated with the separate navigation box you
mentioned, there are often good alternatives right now that have to compete on
merit because they're not built-in, which aren't necessarily as owner-hostile.
I just fear the day when the number of us willing to pay a little extra and
give up a little convenience to maintain that independence will be too small
to sustain the market.)

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newnewpdro
Just a tiny glimpse of the circus that will be self-driving cars with
proprietary software running the in-cabin telescreens in cooperation with the
autonomous systems.

If you're working on building the stuff to enable this future, please stop.

~~~
expertentipp
but it pays so well.. and in many regions of Europe (...ehem... Germany) it's
the only innovation happening

~~~
pdkl95
Douglas Adams, in HHGttG:

> The Encyclopedia Galactica defines a robot as a mechanical apparatus
> designed to do the work of a man.

> The marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation defines a robot
> as "Your Plastic Pal Who's Fun to Be With".

> The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the
> Sirius Cybernetic Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the
> first against the wall when the revolution comes”

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ddingus
Daughter drives car for a while...

I get in:

There is a TCBY just off your route, want a dollar off?

LOL

I will just watch this mess, content with my easy to service, older, dumb car.

The interesting dynamic here will be the features that really help people vs
advertizers looking to direct business.

Driving newer cars is a lot more busy experience. Looks like it may just get
worse. Bummer. I drive older vehicles for the quiet. At night especially.

Wonder what people will do when the car makes one offer, the phone another,
and the other phone in back, yet another one?

I won't be buying any cars new enough, until such time as they are hacked to
not do it.

~~~
anticensor
Self driving version: There is TCBY off your route, you have been diverted to
see it.

~~~
ddingus
Right?

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nerdponx
When are we going to elect people who stand up for us?

When "voting with your dollar" is impossible, we need to be able to vote with
our, y'know, votes. If we can do neither, we need to consider less palatable
alternatives.

~~~
oliwarner
An extreme resolution but there are governments out there that proudly stand
up for their consumers' rights.

The EU has already made this business model a non-starter.

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hedora
I wonder what happens if you cut the lead to the cell antenna, but not the gps
antenna.

I’d pay for a cell data kill switch in my new car.

More practically, though, doesn’t this mean they have to push opt-out updates
to any car being driven in California?

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
If they're using assisted GPS, I would actually expect this to deteriorate the
ability to actually locate yourself. Unfortunately.

~~~
hedora
True, but raw GPS works well enough in cell dead spots on my car, so I
probably wouldn’t notice the difference.

The other problem is that they’d likely log the GPS track, and upload it all
at once if anyone ever re-enabled cell data, which kind of defeats the whole
thing.

Maybe the switch would have to be for all the radios (even FM, Bluetooth, etc,
if yo want to be extra tin foil hatty).

Even with that, commercial license plate cameras still would track the car.

I’m beginning to think the only solution is legislative (probably via direct
democracy, because Silicon Valley corporate lobbyists are too powerful these
days...)

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astura
[https://outline.com/sv6cJt](https://outline.com/sv6cJt)

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mikestew
Good luck monetizing when that transmit antenna wire accidentally jiggles
lose. But, like uBlock or PiHole, so few folks will be bothered to go to the
effort that it will be generally worth the effort on GM’s part.

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mehrdadn
> But many car makers have bigger plans, including using the data to craft
> targeted in-car advertisements

Lo and behold, you're _always_ the product, no matter how many thousands of
dollars you're paying.

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predictionable
How do we bypass the WSJ paywall again?

~~~
ardy42
[http://archive.is/qaMgc](http://archive.is/qaMgc)

