
Shopping Sucks Now - dangerman
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9399mp/im-fed-up-with-shopping-it-blows-so-hard-why-cant-i-buy-anything-someone-help-me
======
egypturnash
When I was living in the PNW and realized I direly needed gloves, I just hit
up a few of the department stores downtown until I found some that met my
criteria. Which are probably similar to those of this author, I wanted some
that looked cute, had a conductive patch on the finger so I could use my phone
without taking them off, would fit on my long hands with long fingernails, and
weren’t super expensive gloves designed for arctic expeditions. I could see
them in person and make choices based on how their build quality felt.

I think my total time, including the bus rides downtown and back (even though
I was probably doing other things downtown on that trip like “working”), was
probably less than she spent opening ten thousand different tabs in her search
for The Perfect Glove.

And then in a couple years I had to do it again because I could only find one
of the gloves when it started to be too cold for bare hands again. It ain’t
_worth_ investing a ton of time into picking gloves or umbrellas or other
things that tend to get lost or separated.

Shopping for physical goods _on the Internet_ sucks.

~~~
smacktoward
I think the key to the article can be found in this passage:

 _> [T]he problem is that now, somewhat suddenly, perfect knowledge of the
perfect glove, for you specifically, exists, if you simply do enough
research._

When you're shopping in a physical store, you have no expectation that you're
going to find the absolute, one-and-only perfect glove (or whatever) in the
world for you. Even in the largest stores, you understand that their shelf
space is limited, and therefore you set your expectations not to find the
absolute, one-and-only perfect glove in the world for you, but to find a glove
that's _good enough_ for your needs. As long as you can find something that
meets your requirements at an acceptable cost, you come away satisfied. Maybe
not _thrilled,_ but _satisfied._

The infinite variety of online shopping tells us to set our expectations
higher than that. Suddenly every thing we buy has to be _the perfect version
of that thing for us_ \-- because if it _isn 't_, that means we are lazy
dullards who lacked the research skills and/or wherewithal to go out and
_find_ the perfect version. Instead of it being the fault of the shop that we
had to settle for good enough, suddenly it's _our_ fault.

The only way out of this trap is to realize that there is no such thing as the
perfect product, that even the works of the finest craftspeople are going to
have flaws and blemishes on them, and that good enough really is, you know,
_good enough._

Or, in other words, that happiness is not a glove that you can buy.

~~~
JohnFen
I think your comment makes really excellent points. This line:

> The infinite variety of online shopping tells us to set our expectations
> higher than that.

made me think a bit -- that used to be true for me, but the effect is trending
in the opposite direction now. I have learned that it's very nearly impossible
to tell if a product being shown is actually any good or not unless I'm
already familiar with that company's products, regardless of what the product
listing or product reviews say.

~~~
OnlineGladiator
Being overwhelmed with choice is known as analysis paralysis.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis)

[https://xkcd.com/1801/](https://xkcd.com/1801/)

~~~
ssss11
It’s the overwhelming choice yes, but it’s also the fact that companies sell
junk online that looks good in a photo and then of course you receive it and
it’s useless. The reviews are all rigged and the brands are unknown to you, so
there’s no way of knowing until you’ve purchased it, and then in many cases
there’s no way or it’s very difficult to return the dud.

------
bartread
Sorry, but I just can't get on board with this point of view.

Shopping has _always_ sucked. Badly. Going to the shops has to be one of the
single most annoying and unpleasant day to day experiences I deal with[1].

If you live anywhere even remotely populous when you visit the shops there are
people milling around just ####ing everywhere. Dithering, dawdling, standing
around chatting at every choke point in the aisles, demonstrating a
spectacular lack of spatial awareness - but, honestly, who can blame them when
the entire environment is so overstimulating and overcrowded?

And after all this there's a damn good chance you're not going to find what
you want anyway.

I dare anyone to visit a department store in a city for half an hour on a
Saturday and come out afterwards without having entertained a single murderous
thought.

But nowadays I can do a bit of research online, which might be quick or might
take a while depending on what I want, find exactly what I want, find
somewhere that sells it (generally _not_ Amazon because I just don't trust
them that much these days), and either order it for delivery, or click and
collect (very handy at places like Screwfix, Toolstation, and B&Q).

It's just way less stressful and way more pleasant. I mean, still not
necessarily the most fun thing in the world, but it makes shopping suck a lot
less.

 _[1] There are clearly far worse problems to have, and this may be a
#firstworldproblem, but in terms of the normal humdrum routine of daily life,
visiting the shops often really sucks._

~~~
loblollyboy
Sounds like you just hate people

~~~
Consultant32452
I think it's more that some people want to purchase while others want to shop.
Purchasing is a functional task while shopping is a social activity. Places
like department stores are designed for shoppers.

~~~
Fr0styMatt88
I've never seen it put this way before. This exactly describes me - I enjoy
purchasing. I don't enjoy shopping.

------
basseq
That "tyranny of perfect information" begets FOMO. If you'd looked at one more
site or one more review you might have discovered a "better" (cheaper, high
quality, higher utility) item.

I'd add that's it's worse because the world is flatter. Why should I buy Brand
Item when I can get a version from Alibaba for 10-20%? If it truly is
comparable, then why pay the markup when the internet lets me cut out the
middleman? But then when the version from Alibaba is total crap, there's no
recourse. It's not like a local shop with reputation at risk.

So you end up in this world where nothing matters and it's a race to maximize
attention. Which means, as a consumer, you _have_ to do your research or risk
getting taken for a ride.

~~~
Retric
Consistent quality is the entire point of brands. Find a soap you like and you
can mindlessly get the same thing for the next 20+ years. Which also generally
means you can pick a random brand and not end up with junk as long as trust
the supply chain.

The issue is when you want something different than the millions of other
people out there. Sure, things change and the quality may slip, but there is
only so much time in the world is comparison shopping really worth it to you?

~~~
basseq
That's kind of the point, though. Supply chains are becoming more transparent
and accessible to the end customer, so in 2020, you have a much better chance
of going "directly to the source" than you did 20 years ago.

So the FOMO is paying a brand markup for consistent quality you could get for
less.

Then you have "established" brands that are just trying to maximize profit.
And "new" brands that are just AliExpress resellers. So trust that even a
Brand™ experience will be a good one is waning.

In other words, the premise that you're paying for time savings is less
assured, and the information to actually make comparison shopping worthwhile
is _right there_.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
30 years ago, there were 10 options, but the information was hard to get. Now,
the information is right there, but there are 1000 options. Does it now take
_less_ time, or _more_?

------
CharlesColeman
> On the first page, there are two different gloves listed, one for $17 and
> one for $60, that look exactly identical and come in the exact same colors.
> Both have the same exact star rating (4.5/5) and hundreds of positive
> reviews.

> I’d love to only spend $17 except there is no way 17-dollar leather gloves
> won’t be fake and off color and smell of gasoline when they arrive, and
> after only a few wears the lining will pill or develop holes. I’d love to
> just buy the $60 gloves except that seems like a pretty large amount of
> money to spend on non-weatherproof gloves, and how can I, when there are
> identical $17 gloves right there.

It could also be that the $60 gloves came from the same factory and are
_exactly identical_ to the $17 gloves, and if you buy them you're going to get
ripped off by _at least_ $43.

I wouldn't say that the problem of shopping is now "perfect information," it's
rather a deluge of information liberally peppered with dishonesty and
arbitrariness.

~~~
beatgammit
You never know if the review you're reading is genuine or paid content,
especially when it's part of one of those top 10 <product type> of <year>.

All I want to know is what to expect. Will this item break on me after X
years/uses, or should I expect it to last longer? Am I paying for the
brand/design, or durability?

Personally, I'm trying to cut down on the stuff I buy and discard, and a large
part of that is buying quality items that last. In the past, I could expect
that paying more means I'll get a more durable product, but that doesn't seem
to be the case anymore, especially when I've purchased name brand items that
break far more quickly than off brand items.

I just wish we had a better way of signaling the trade-off between durability
and aesthetics.

------
Reedx
Anyone working on a Trader Joes meets Amazon? That curates maybe 1-3 versions
of things, largely eliminating paradox of choice.

I guess Costco is kind of a bulk version of that...

Also I've been increasingly interested in just buying things once and having
them last a decade+, ideally a lifetime (less waste). But this takes a lot of
research. Trader Joes does a good job of curating groceries and I've come to
trust their choices. It would be nice to have this for products.

Essentially, "This is the version of X that will last 10+ years."

~~~
mikeyouse
Brandless is pursuing something down this line:

[https://brandless.com/](https://brandless.com/)

~~~
arkitaip
Brandless makes no sense to me. They mostly buy from China and their products
are more expensive than they should be (their product descriptions don't offer
any arguments why, at least). They claim to be health and environmentally-
conscious but there's no relevant information to read on the product pages.

Take this random Brandless product: [https://brandless.com/products/stainless-
steel-wooden-turner](https://brandless.com/products/stainless-steel-wooden-
turner)

Why on Earth would you buy it? How can you possibly tell that it's eco-
friendly or not?

~~~
mikeyouse
I think they're trying to convey a sense of trust across all of the items they
offer through their parent 'Brand' which is a bit ironic given the name.
Ideally they _only_ offer eco-friendly items and that relieves the consumers
of the burden of making that choice for themselves. As noted on other Acacia
products, it's a fast-growing renewable wood.

[https://brandless.com/products/acacia-wood-cheese-
board](https://brandless.com/products/acacia-wood-cheese-board)

~~~
riversflow
I don’t understand how selling items manufactured in a country with the
environmental regulatory environment of China can honestly be sold as eco-
friendly.

~~~
fmajid
China is improving, if only because a rising middle-class is demanding air
that doesn't choke their lung in cities like Beijing or Shanghai. The US, on
the other hand, is regressing.

~~~
riversflow
There are many vectors to environmental health besides the PM2.5 and PM10
levels. Chinese industry dumps straight into the rivers and onto the ground.
Among many other environmental shortcomings relative to western industry. They
also have no/toothless Occupational Safety,a separate but still reasonable
concern.

------
ropiwqefjnpoa
Something that has been lost is genuine reviews. First you have all the
sponsored reviews and then all the equally worthless "I don't know how to use
it so it's junk" or "it never arrived" 1 star reviews. And so many "review"
sites look like they've been procedurally generated then SEO optimized and
filled with ads.

~~~
umvi
Currently I only trust reddit for "genuine" reviews. Seems like Amazon reviews
these days are gamed to the max. Once companies figure this out and reddit has
a high degree of astroturf it will be impossible to find out what normal,
unbiased (as in don't have an agenda) humans think about a product.

~~~
kaibee
I suspect that once that fails, the next step is going to be having to join
the Discord server or whatever chat-group exists for that niche. Then asking
for a recommendation from some weirdo whose super obsessed with gloves or
whatever. The future is weird.

~~~
arkitaip
Super niche forums have existed for this need for many years and cover
everything from multi-tools and flashlights to makeup and perfume. It's just
that they require more effort to use and many are disappearing due to social
media.

~~~
ip26
I used to drive down those ratholes but found the superniche items of choice
tended to be dated, hard to find, expensive & suffered from hyper-
optimization. Worst of all due to being dated, I found mainstream products
were actually comparable to superior in nearly all measures.

------
pkilgore
If you're interested in a deeper treatment of these issues check out the 2004
book [1] The Paradox of Choice.

Some interesting notes from follow-up research [2]:

> In a meta‐analysis of 99 observations (N = 7202) reported by prior research,
> we identify four key factors—choice set complexity, decision task
> difficulty, preference uncertainty, and decision goal—that moderate the
> impact of assortment size on choice overload. We further show that each of
> these four factors has a reliable and significant impact on choice overload,
> whereby higher levels of decision task difficulty, greater choice set
> complexity, higher preference uncertainty, and a more prominent,
> effort‐minimizing goal facilitate choice overload. We also find that four of
> the measures of choice overload used in prior
> research—satisfaction/confidence, regret, choice deferral, and switching
> likelihood—are equally powerful measures of choice overload and can be used
> interchangeably.

[1]
[https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780060005696](https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780060005696)

[2]
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jcps.2014....](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jcps.2014.08.002)

~~~
riversflow
Gonna add that Barry Schwartz does a TED talk by the same name. Really eye
opening.

link:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choi...](https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice/up-
next)

------
macNchz
Faced with the situation described in this article many times in recent years,
I've come to appreciate the value of the wholesale buyer at traditional
retailers.

While obviously there are a variety of incentives involved, the buyer has
evaluated a variety of products and found ones that they not only expect to be
profitable for them, but that are also something they expect their customers
to like and want to buy. Also, it's very unlikely they'll risk selling
counterfeits. The majority of Amazon sellers seem to optimize exclusively for
profitability, and make up for it by gaming the system with fake reviews and
the like.

~~~
kortilla
This is pretty much the main reason to shop at Costco. I’m not really
convinced anything is actually a good bulk deal. It’s just a matter of having
a place to shop where you can safely grab stuff and have a decently high floor
on quality.

~~~
chihuahua
There are many things at Costco where you save quite a bit compared to buying
elsewhere: Cheese, smoked salmon, maple syrup, vitamins, cereal bars, peanuts,
Kerry Gold butter, Chobani plain yogurt ($3 vs $6), socks.

~~~
kortilla
Do you know of a good resource that tells you which things are significantly
better priced?

------
nerdponx
Or stop trying to hyper-optimize?

Buy from a handful of trusted brands; if it doesn't work out, don't buy from
them again. Like what people did before all this information was available.

~~~
wool_gather
Where do you get your initial trusted list from, and what do you do when "it
doesn't work out" and you need a replacement supplier?

~~~
sofal
What I tend to do in that situation is to do a master's thesis level of
research of every forum post and review I can find until 2 weeks and 750
browser tabs later the existential angst wipes out all my desire to buy the
item and/or to live.

~~~
technobabble
Spreadsheet for me. Not pictured: pile of returns, especially for clothing.

------
cbdumas
"Shopping" on Amazon.com is not a good strategy IMO. It's always best to find
something you want on another, more specialized site (forum, review
aggregator, specialized review site, etc.) and then look for the item you want
somewhere online. Amazon, walmart, alibaba et al. are more like UI's for a
warehouse for me at this point.

~~~
strbean
My issue with Amazon recently is that their search is so doctored now I
literally can't find the product+brand combo I am looking for half the time.

Any sufficiently small brand is drowned out by knockoffs and other crap.

I can't recall a specific example right now, so this is a fictitious one:

\- Search "Allen Edmonds belt"

\- Results: belts by anyone but Allen Edmonds. "Brand" filter doesn't appear
on the left for some reason.

\- Search "Allen Edmonds"

\- Go to Allen Edmonds seller page.

\- Click through a page with _every one of their products_ and find the belts.

WTF.

edit: I remember the last time this happened was with phone cases.

~~~
wasdfff
“New version available.” Sizes: m, medium, MEDIUM, med. Colors: black, BLK.

Amazon is worthless.

~~~
strbean
"Price: from $2.07." Options:

\- $299.99 - Medium (Brown)

\- $299.99 - Small (Black),

\- $2.07 - XXXXXXXL (Purple/Green/Orange) (SOLD OUT)

------
rdiddly
The perfect knowledge she claims to be burdened by is anything but. The actual
problem here is imperfection of knowledge. What do you know, when someone
tells you a glove is soft? What do you know, when they tell you it's
waterproof? What do you know when they tell you it's leather? You know nothing
for sure if all you've got to rely on is second-hand hearsay information.
You're stuck in Plato's cave, chained to the wall.

Shopping online should be reserved for cases when either you already know most
of what you need to know, through first-hand experience, or when you're
willing to do the buy-and-return thing a couple times to find out.

~~~
Gibbon1
Used to be brick an mortar stores had buyers. To get stuff on the shelf you
needed to get past them. They were experts at evaluating products and would
reject 'crap'.

Now we have corrupt and easily gamed review processes and a race to the
bottom.

~~~
TylerE
Retail stores have sold their shelf space to the highest bidder for decades.

~~~
Noumenon72
You don't invest in buying shelf space for a product that is crap, so it works
out. Being listed on Amazon costs nothing so you might as well list crap.

~~~
Gibbon1
Bingo!

------
lifeisstillgood
I was a Vegan for five years in my twenties ("London's only fat vegan"). And
one of the things I liked was that I did not have to think hard about eating
out at lunchtime. I could have a jacket potato with beans or I could get all
sophisticated and have a jacket potato with hummus.

Lack of choice sucks. Limited sufficient choice makes a simple happy life.

------
rednerrus
I've started only buying things directly from brands that I trust and have
legitimate warranties. I bought 5 pairs of swimming shorts on Amazon last year
and all of them have completely fallen apart. I have a pair that I bought from
Patagonia that look as good today as they did 6 years ago. I have a 10 year
old puffer from them that has been so good to me. It's worth the extra money,
if you can afford it, to just buy one nice thing and be done with it.

------
Pxtl
Imho, the problem is Amazon and how everybody is aping them. Every store is
now also a bazaar with infinite combinations of functionally-anonymous brands
hawking indistinguishable Chinese plastic.

I want a e-store where somebody has taken an editorial role in curating their
crap. I used to be a habitual researcher and I'm completely burned out on the
process.

~~~
mech422
Yep.... I remember how annoyed I was when NewEgg started this 'marketplace'
crap. I think even Wal-mart does it now...

Oddly enough - DIY stores like Lowe's and Home Depot don't seem to suffer from
the 'marketplace disease'.

------
IgorPartola
I started riding a motorcycle two springs ago. In that short time I went
though six pairs of gloves. Turns out, buying gloves online sucks. Sizing is
terrible since the only size is the width of your palm. Fingers too long or
too short or different lengths? You are out of luck. Thick fingers or thin
fingers? Nope. Glove fits well but has an uncomfortable inner seam? Gotcha
again. Love the glove but not the closure system? Oops. Glove fits but you
hate the thickness of the material? Material breathes too much or not enough?
Manufacturer put logos everywhere?

Yeah, I learned my lesson and buy gloves in person.

~~~
chihuahua
That has also been my experience (for motorcycling and bicycling). Gloves are
the one item I have to buy in person.

REI stores are a great place for buying winter gloves and also bicycling
gloves. Other than that: Costco, bicycle dealers, motorcycle dealers.

------
gumby
This is what branding is all about: you can't really tell but you know brand
'B' hasn't let you down so just choose that again.

Of course then the tail began to wag the cow* and the brand became the point;
product value became irrelevant. Still it's probably the least terrible way to
choose. I want a USB power brick but brand 'N' doesn't sell something that
meets my desires: I'll wait.

* chose cow rather than dog because I doubt farmers used to actually _brand_ (German for "burn") their symbol on their dog.

------
truebosko
I know where this article is trying to go, but as someone who rarely shops ..
damn is it nice.

I went to Uniqlo in Faneuil Hall here in Boston yesterday. Simply walking into
the store is an _experience_. It's in a historic district, surrounded by quick
bites and other fun knick knacks, and the store itself is beautiful laid out.

This is where the physical store absolutely destroys the abysmal online
experience. Curation and the human experience.

------
godshatter
Physical in-store shopping has always been a nightmare for me. Too many people
moving in too many random directions, most of them oblivious or actively
hostile to those around them. I can feel the waves of frustration and anxiety
of everyone around me. I'm one of those people that goes to a store only when
they really need something, and I plan it out like a bank heist. Park here,
away from everyone else, keep my head down, go this route to get to thing X,
see if there is anything there that would remotely work for me, grab it if
there is, head directly to the checkout farthest away from the mass of
humanity jockeying for position, pay quickly, exit quickly, start to breathe a
sigh of relief as I head for the car. I don't know how I got this way, I'm not
antisocial in most other contexts, but for me shopping has been a terrible
experience and online shopping has been a blessing.

Probably because of my "smash-and-grab" shopping routine, I don't spend much
time searching for that Perfect Item. I just buy something that looks
reasonable and hope for the best. If I have bought enough of that kind of item
to have a brand preference or non-preference, I would take that into account.
If I were wanting to buy some gloves, I'd first go to Amazon (sorry) and
search for leather gloves or whatever. I'd maybe use the checkboxes on the
left to narrow it down. I'd look at maybe four different choices, and pick
one. Sometime a day or two later I'd wonder what was in the box, because I
would have forgotten about the whole experience already.

My shopping-phobia or whatever it is has conditioned me to not buy too many
things, even now where online shopping makes it stress-free. Which is probably
a good thing, because I'm always trying to downsize anyway thinking I have too
much crap.

~~~
Cougher
And the music. So many places are trying to be hip with their music choices
and it makes me more impatient than having to pee. I've walked out of so many
restaurants because of the loud, obnoxious music. I can't even pump gas at my
local gas station without having to hear their garbage pop music. It really
makes me miss muzak or I don't know . . . peace and quiet?

------
jancsika
> I’d love to only spend $17 except there is no way 17-dollar leather gloves
> won’t be fake and off color and smell of gasoline when they arrive, and
> after only a few wears the lining will pill or develop holes. I’d love to
> just buy the $60 gloves except that seems like a pretty large amount of
> money to spend on non-weatherproof gloves, and how can I, when there are
> identical $17 gloves right there.

17, which is too risky, and 60, which isn't 17, which is too risky...

There are probably hundreds of salespeople inside small business abodes in a
20 mile radius who are trained in the diplomacy of breaking out of that loop
without making the author feel like a complete idiot.

Not saying a brick-and-mortar is a utopia, but at least the problem of ending
up with a 5-star pair of "glarves" goes away.

------
lr
I do really feel badly for (mostly) young people who have no frame of
reference for things other than Amazon and comparison websites. I would
probably never go to Amazon for something like gloves (or most other things)
because you have no idea what you are going to get. When I do know what I
want, the first place I try to buy it from is the company that makes it. If
they don't sell it direct, then they will probably tell you who does. If they
have their own store on Amazon, I will use that, even if other providers on
Amazon are selling it for less.

~~~
madengr
Amazon was the only place I could find XXL leather work gloves. All the big
box stores have XL at most, which shrink down to an L. That saves me money as
I don’t have to throw them out when they shrink.

------
frogpelt
The silly thing about all of this is when you are buying physical products,
they actually exist somewhere.

You can (or at least should be able to) go to a store look at the product, try
it on, look at the quality first hand and then buy them.

But we've accepted that it's better to save 25% or 50% so that we can avoid
the inconvenience of actual shopping.

Furthermore, there are brands that make good stuff and have good customer
service, stick to those brands until they prove to be untrustworthy.

Don't reward Amazon just for building a nice website.

------
tengbretson
Does the author not have any friends? How hard is it to see a friend or
acquaintance wearing gloves and ask them whether or not they like them and
where they bought them?

------
trashface
This is a much of a style problem as a choice problem. As a guy in the suburbs
I don't give a shit about style, but my hands are basically like ice cubes all
winter. So I have two cheap non-matching hats that I shove into my coat
pockets and then I put my hands into them inside the pockets. I benefit from
the fact that style is irrelevant (for me) and any hat works way better than
any glove for my particular case.

------
stevenwliao
Shopping sucks less now. Wider selection and more transparent information
means that you can make a better choice today. If the author stops looking for
the absolute best item, they'll find that it's a great world for the
satisficing consumer.

[https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/satisficing.asp](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/satisficing.asp)

~~~
sofal
The _wider selection_ is very often knockoff, quasi-fraudulent garbage dressed
up in fake reviews that will drown out most of the _transparent information_
you were hoping to find.

~~~
stevenwliao
Overall, what you can buy with a little research is much better in 2019 than
1999, even with the lemons and fake reviews.

~~~
mech422
Not sure I agree with that... Seems like every year materials get thinner,
workmanship gets worse, and the rush to the bottom get worse.

------
dsfyu404ed
Shopping doesn't suck. Being picky sucks. If I want gloves I go to the
discount store and buy a 5-pack of the nitrile dipped cotton, the half-leather
or the insulated rubber ones depending on what I need them for, no existential
crisis whatsoever. I suspect the endless options for comparable products that
we can access on the internet has made us more picky than we otherwise would
be.

------
wtracy
Alright, startup idea:

A service that, for a subscription fee, provides product
reviews/recommendation lists, plus a concierge "recommend a product for my
requirements" service. Maybe throw in basic troubleshooting help as well.

All reviews and recommendations would come from staffers, so it can't be gamed
with fake reviews short of bribing someone.

~~~
bluegreyred
... then the subscription fee business model turns out to be unsustainable, so
they add a few harmless affiliate links to pay staff. then ads. then sponsored
content ...

------
olivierlacan
I don't think searching for higher quality longer-lasting products in a sea of
disposable short-term-focused products is something we should be so eager to
complain about. In other words, this is bad take.

The author comes so close to this realization near the end of the piece when
he says: > But isn’t that terrible for the environment?

And never follows up on that statement.

We spend decades of consumerism buying whatever was available with little
forethought because either we didn't have a choice, or we didn't really care
because it was cheap and got the immediate job done. This resulted in single-
use products littering the shelves of most retail outlets because of our focus
on instant-gratification.

Wirecutter may make people overthink their purchase experience but at the very
least educates people on the pros and cons of different products which is
something the market has woefully failed at doing.

------
Cougher
First world problem: we've chosen to let the second and third world make stuff
for us because we had more important things to do, and then sell the stuff to
us via Ali Baba or the 40 thieves, and there's no way to tell which is which.

"Back in the day", I didn't even have the option to buy a USB-chargable hand
warmer to keep my cell phone's battery from dying in the cold so I could hike
in the winter and be within contact for various reasons. But my options are to
buy one USB-chargable hand warmer/charger that will probably work for part of
a season before it stops working, and another hand warmer/charger that will
probably work for part of a season before it sets my house on fire when I try
to charge it, and there's no way to tell which is which.

------
dredmorbius
Barry Schwartz, "The Paradox of Choice"

[https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choi...](https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_paradox_of_choice)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice)

There are also:

1\. The issues with online misrepresentation and fraud.

2\. The limited amount of information (far from perfect as TFA asserts) of
online shopping. Heck, half the time you cannot even limit a results set to
the product you're interested in, rather than a slew of vaguely associated
items). Fit, finish, and quality can often only be assessed directly in
person.

------
h4waii
I'd just like to add, since nobody else has mentioned -- Hestra. They make
extremely high quality gloves that will last you well over a decade.

If you spend time "optimizing" your life according to the Diderot Effect,
you'll find these brands that are sitting at the top of their industry,
quietly producing excellent products used by people who know exactly what they
want.

It can be a dangerous thing to start only using the "best products", but once
you start knocking off the low hanging fruit, you can make a noticeable
difference in the quality of your life by having products that excel at their
job.

------
maerF0x0
It'd be great to have an automated shopper that somehow correlates what you
buy + like to what (you would buy + like) . In some regards this is what
targeted advertising is supposed to do, but most of the time it's just showing
me the things I've already bought.

I was telling my boss the other day that I wished there was an AI that I could
give a budget, say $100 a month, and it would automatically and incrementally
purchase the items I do not have that I would be most likely to enjoy. Maybe
it saves up for N months if it's more than my monthly budget etc... Could give
manufacturer's a pipeline for stuff (eg, AI declares I'm going to buy item X
at $Y in Z months, please make it) ...

~~~
awinder
There’s sites like this:

1\. [https://www.trunkclub.com/](https://www.trunkclub.com/)

2\. [https://www.stitchfix.com/](https://www.stitchfix.com/)

I gave them both a try and had some success but wasn’t that into it, but
they’re supposed to kinda build price/style profiles over time. I just decided
I wanted more control / I wanted to research things to death (this article hit
home).

------
ggggtez
I wonder if there is a market for a company that will shop for you, but at
scale.

You go and say "I want a pair of black leather gloves, in this size." Check a
box or two about your usecase, and give them your price range... and viola. A
few minutes later you've got 2-3 to pick from. Even include a "I'm feeling
lucky" option.

Though, I imagine even saving people time for things like "I need a hammer"
would save people enough time comparison shopping that you could still take a
cut and everyone would be happy.

------
ixtli
> not being able to pick single objects that work for absolutely everyone
> (ironically, this criticism comes from outlets that each exist but for the
> grace of extremely wealthy Silicon Valley benefactors).

It's been a long time since a long-form vice article has really resonated with
me. I am happy that we're clearly moving away from a world of a million
variations of the same plastic crap to a place where consumers are demanding
the _right_ thing.

------
quink
For finding what particular type or model of random good to buy I’ve become
utterly dependent on just adding ‘reddit’ as a search term.

Living in Australia, adding ‘ozbargain’ and ‘whirlpool’ instead to another two
searches to follow up completes the trifecta.

I just hope Google never optimises for that because then the content of bad
reviews will shift to and overwhelm these sites instead. When a metric starts
being the target it ceases to be a good metric.

------
iwazaki
Shopping online costs everything more except traveling and getting other
customers’ opinions.

Amazon search result provides about 10 items per click to next page. In a
traditional store you can see hundreds of goods at a glance, plus tons of rich
info like smell, size, texture.

For products with standard specs like cable and socket, it’s pretty good to
shop online. But for basically everything else, I prefer to travel downtown.

------
zwieback
Shopping only sucks if you're in a hurry and even then it's hard to argue that
it's gotten worse, just a different set of problems.

~~~
ropiwqefjnpoa
Maybe, but sometimes the more you research the harder it gets to decide.

~~~
hiccuphippo
Sometimes you research a lot only to end up buying the first option you saw.

------
Wowfunhappy
The author could just buy whatever gloves are marked as "Amazon's Choice".

Of course, then she is assuming that Amazon has her best interests at heart,
and hasn't just chosen whichever product makes them the most money.

But, by shopping at a store with a more limited product selection than Amazon,
you are relying on the same assumption. Also, the assumption is almost
certainly wrong in all cases.

~~~
kn0where
Amazon’s choice is just an algorithmic label that sometimes gets applied to
total crap, there’s no actual curation.

------
RenRav
Online shopping is convenient at least. Why does it need to not suck? Has it
ever not sucked?

Buying something without actually holding it in your hands and testing it out
will never be an awesome experience. You can't really trust reviews and
ratings. But you can usually return stuff and I don't see why the author made
such a fuss about returning.

------
tim333
>I’d love to only spend $17 except there is no way 17-dollar leather gloves
won’t be fake and off color and smell of gasoline

Being annoyed at my local shops wanting £100 for a wallet I went on ebay a
ordered a leather one for £2.25 inc post in 2014 and still in daily use now.
The internet is remarkable for shopping in some ways.

------
kleinvin
The best part about going to a speciality retail is getting expert advice
(running shop and getting advice on the best running shoes from a runner or
best bikes from a biker) wondering if that value add could be usuario to bring
online. Open to feedback

------
Aloha
JCPenny opened a test store in Hurst TX, and its everything I miss about
department stores, its brightly lit, it has a salon and a barbershop, the
goods are displayed attractively and in an easy to find way - if all stores
were like this one, I'd go shipping more often.

------
taurath
This is the tomato sauce problem. There are too many tomato sauces on most
store shelves to ever be satisfied with what you select. You would be happier
given how unimportant tomato sauce is relatively in your life, to have but one
choice. More choice is not always better.

------
swiley
It would be nice if we could get a catalog in SQLite or csv format and just
search it ourselves then send a list of product numbers and addresses to ship
them too.

Most people know excel and could probably prefer this.

------
distdev89
Lets see:

1\. You have the choice of getting any of the options you want, that are not
available in store near you in 2 days sitting at home. 2\. You can compare
prices on each of those items and choose the price point that best suits you.
3\. You have an option to get information from people who have previously
owned that item and read their thoughts and reviews. 4\. You can order as any
many you want, and spend 5 mins preparing a return and 10 - 15 mins returning
the item (or, just pay a small fee to get it collected back from your house)

Yet, you choose to drive down to a store, a store which probably doesn't have
an online inventory index. Try to find an option you want, don't find it, and
now you're mad?

Do you see the hypocrisy?

------
oxipital
I really love when writers wrongly mix up economic metaphors.

------
intended
> what I want is for the world to be small again

In a nut shell, what modern age humanity will desperately wish.

I wonder how digital native kids handle this?

------
jonstaab
And (I'm looking at you Shopify), VR/AR is not going to solve this.

------
wrycoder
What’s the acronym for “too long, read it anyway, was terrible”?

------
GuB-42
Obligatory xkcd: [https://xkcd.com/1036/](https://xkcd.com/1036/)

It is from 2012 by the way.

~~~
martin-adams
Oh my. I once tried buying a kettle on Amazon but the reviews convinced me
that any purchase would be bad. In the end I deliberately went to my local
supermarket and bought one from there simply because I couldn't see the
reviews.

------
Igelau
Runner's mittens

------
kneel
first world problems

~~~
dang
No doubt, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

------
0x262d
Buying things sucks now. This drives me nuts all the time and is one of many
reasons I want a democratically planned economy. In addition to too many
choices to meaningfully use, the vast majority of them are trying to
essentially trick you into buying them. The drive for each glove (or whatever)
manufacturer to increase profits causes them all to buy fake reviews, use
cheap materials, imitate the style of the authentic, high quality ones...
There is a persistent problem in clothing where whenever a brand gets a
reputation for being good and not over-expensive, it is quietly bought out or
switches to lower quality material in a year or two to cash in on its
reputation. The same thing, of course, happens to the review sites (like the
wirecutter) over time... It's hard to imagine the waste of resources that goes
into this insane battle over the same purchases.

By contrast, if all the designers, manufacturers, and sellers were working not
individually for their own profit, but for a salary (and intrinsic motivation)
along consciously, democratically planned lines, we could have a rational and
sane number of good quality gloves (etc) to choose from.

As Marx said, "In bourgeois societies the economic fiction prevails, that
every one, as a buyer, possesses an encyclopedic knowledge of commodities."
What is funny is he said that in about 1850.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Hard pass. I admit the corruption (wasn't the FTC supposed to be about
preventing false advertising?), but your alternative is worse.

It won't actually be "democratically planned". It will be as democratic as a
"democratic republic". It will be bureaucratically planned (by your salaried
people). Historically, that has worked out badly. It hasn't worked out with
the consumers being happier. Yeah, I know, "this time will be different,
because we'll hire the right people". I'm very skeptical.

~~~
dsego
Aren't big corps not hierarchical bureaucracies anyway? Historically there
were centrally planned economies. Nothing to say we can't organize things
differently with collectives and worker's self management. "Consumers" might
not be happier, but working people just might live a more fulfilling life.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Big corps were hierarchical bureaucracies, but they were _replaceable_. Let's
say that GM messed up, and didn't build cars that people wanted to buy. Well,
you could buy a Ford or a Chrysler instead. You could even buy a VW or a
Honda.

But if your central planning bureaucracy messes up, there's no way to bypass
it to get what you want to buy.

Or was your point that workers' fulfillment is more important than consumers'
satisfaction? That might be a workers' paradise, but it's a lot less nice for
the consumers. But the problem is that workers and consumers are the same
people. I'm not sure that it would be a net win...

~~~
dsego
Big corps are still hierarchical bureaucracies. They are replaceable in theory
though not in practice. Funny that you mention car manufacturers which are
consistently kept afloat by bailouts and subsidies in the current economy. VW
can't go under, it would nosedive the economy of Germany and they would never
let that happen. Workers without jobs aren't really good consumers.

~~~
zozbot234
Big corps get replaced all the time. It's a slow process, but it's effective.
And even if they aren't replaced outright, the management can be replaced if
the board so decides - the top layer is in fact "democratically managed" by
their stakeholders, to the extent feasible. The problem is that even then
they're still big, with no market discipline operating within.

