
Facebook Will Introduce Ads as Videos Start, a Move Long Resisted - angpappas
https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-revamps-video-ads-amid-publisher-concerns-1513269992
======
propman
Facebook has become almost completely useless to me yet I waste so much time
on it every day. No one posts anything on it except like 3 guys who post 10
times a day that I barely know yet find their extremist political posts mind
numbingly amusing. The news on there is trash, I much prefer the WSJ and if I
want sensationalist things I'll go to Reddit and my tastes are more niche now
so I have some forums I visit occasionally for better discussion.

I have never in 10 years clicked on a single ad and I've removed the apps so I
don't get autoplaying videos so I'm not bothered by the future ads on there.
Messenger is important to me and the Birthday list is too. Without those I
wouldn't deCtivate since you need it as social proof for Tinder, but I'd never
go back on.

Honestly, I was busy for just 3 days and didn't log on and the "addiction"
completely vanished. We need to have a no shave novemebr for Facebook, maybe a
no Facebook February and I guarantee millions would get off the addiction and
vastly limit daily social media use.

~~~
electic
The greatest thing I did was delete Facebook off my phone. Here are the
benefits I discovered:

\- I didn't miss anything. Turns out there wasn't any real quality content on
there anyway.

\- My battery lasts 2x longer.

\- I seem to be happier. No joke. With all the rage articles and click bait
headlines gone, I am far more happier.

\- I am way more informed now. I visit allsides.com and get the news there. I
quickly get up to speed and find well written articles that inform me about
what is really going on.

\- I am more productive. Without all the garbage Facebook puts out, I have
more time to get actual work done.

\- I feel accomplished. I go home feeling more accomplished. I am happier,
more productive, and more informed. It is a win-win-win all around.

~~~
nacho2sweet
I as well deleted it off my phone. There is just nothing personal on it
anymore. They are also ruining instagram. Too many ads, suggested posts etc.
They are morphing it in facebook light. Everything is just bad auto roll food
videos, UNILAD shit, and identity politics clickbait sob stories.

The only reason I still have facebook is for group chat messenger during the
day, and to keep track of underground parties. One of those chats is moving to
discord, and other kind of moved to iMessage. Messenger now has intrusive ads
on it as well, I would leave it if I could.

~~~
richardknop
For that all you need is messenger app on your phone and messenger.com on your
computer. You don’t need Facebook main app or website.

~~~
hobarrera
Actually, you can even have the Messenger app with no Facebook account. Just
sign in with your phone number, and it'll pick up acquaintances from your
contact book (much like WhatsApp). You can still search for other people, but
don't need an FB account.

~~~
richardknop
Signing up with phone number doesn't work for lots of young people I suspect.
We don't have phone numbers of friends anymore, for example I have no phone
numbers of even my closest friends, we have been communicating via internet
since we have been teenagers (started with ICQ, then moved to emails then FB
then whatsapp, never really needed to share our phone numbers as we don't ever
call anybody nor send SMS).

This might be just specific to very international people like me who travel
and work in many different countries so our phone numbers change often and
keeping track of that is almost impossible.

~~~
hobarrera
Huh, that's interesting.

I guess this also varies tremendously by region. WhatsApp completely dominates
non-work communication in Argentina; we don't use SMS, nor phone calls, and FB
is pretty much is second place.

AFAIK, in the US people actually use SMS a lot, and I'm sure it's a bit
different everywhere else.

More on topic though; you can use Messenger without an FB account and still
find people by username.

------
nkrisc
>The company also wants professional creators to post more videos to the site
and make the platform a content hub on par with YouTube, a unit of Alphabet
Inc.’s Google.

That's interesting, because I've never been able to find a second time a video
that popped up in my feed. For my experience, videos on Facebook might as well
be ephemeral. forever vanishing the moment my feed refreshes itself
automatically.

~~~
froindt
I experience the same thing and it's really frustrating. I refuse to install
Facebook applications on my phone, and they've needlessly crippled their
mobile site (disabling messages except mbasic.facebook.com among many other
things). If I so much as check a notification then go back to the newsfeed,
it's different content and hit/miss as to whether I can find the top post
again.

~~~
code_duck
I had to wonder for a second whether I was looking at a post of mine!

A year or two ago they made the change to disallow access to messages from
m.facebook.com, so I started using mbasic.facebook.com for messages. Recently
they blocked the mbasic.facebook.com entirely for iPhones. It's clear that
there reason is to force mobile users to install messenger, because messages
are still available on m.facebook.com and mbasic if you visit in a desktop
browser.

I already have a FB app on my phone, Instagram, which is more useful for
messaging in my circle and less annoying. I refuse to be forced to install
their app, so the only response to this is to stop using messenger. Already my
messages are going unchecked and will stay that way until I get to a desktop.

The vagaries of finding content you saw minutes before, and the almost
entirely random way posts and everything is organized, is frustrating too.

~~~
cortesoft
I just went to mbasic.facebook.com from my iPhone and it worked? I didn't
login because I don't use facebook, does it block you after you login?

~~~
code_duck
Oh, interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I haven't tried in a week or two,
and it's back! I was definitely getting redirected to m.facebook.com for a
week or two, but apparently see they have restored access, for whatever
reason.

Edit: does anyone know of somewhere I can be informed of changes about this by
Facebook?

Searching for previous discussions about this on a Hacker News, I see other
people say that the mbasic Does or doesn’t work for them at various times.

------
awalton
Given so much of the video content (at least high 80s percent wise) on
Facebook is simply pirated from YouTube and other creators, it seems more than
a _little_ unethical for them to start emblazoning them with ads. But, they'll
happily sit behind the DMCA Safe Harbor, slowly taking down videos and reaping
the ad revenue in the meanwhile without giving any of it back to creators...

~~~
fpisfun
It's hard to imagine a less ethical company in silicon valley than Facebook so
it's not surprising

~~~
ng-user
Uber?

~~~
fpisfun
They provide a useful service though at least

~~~
shak77
You are really arrogant to believe Facebook is not useful to anybody.

------
fpisfun
They're dying, it may be a very slow death but the process has begun. They
will become like Yahoo, Myspace, Aol, etc. They are not a Google that can
pivot and do a number of different things. Also I've come to realize that
Google has a much different relationship with it's users, Google doesn't try
to suck up all your time it just tries to give you what you want when you want
it, Facebook tries to gamify everything so that you're constantly checking
it's useless drivel.

~~~
MarkMc
Their active user count increases in every region every year. Their revenue is
growing 50% per year.

They are not dying.

~~~
opportune
This isn't a precise way of thinking about things, but I really think the most
important part of maintaining the success of a social network is being "cool",
or rather, being the social network that cool people use.

I don't know the data, but my assumption is that facebook's user count isn't
really continuing to grow among young people in developed countries. Like it
or not, this demographic is usually what defines what it means to be cool.
Would people in Indonesia and India join Facebook if it were mostly old people
and people from their own countries? I doubt it - they would know what young
people in other countries truly prefer, plus they would likely be better
served by a local alternative. Would old people join Facebook if their
children and younger relatives used something else? I doubt that too.

Facebook wanted to grab Snap, and did grab Instagram, so that it could
maintain its monopoly on the social media that "cool" people use. All we need
is more companies like Snap not willing to be bought out for Facebook to see a
big hit in this market segment. I think that's the long term threat to
Facebook

~~~
nindalf
> Would people in Indonesia and India join Facebook if it were mostly old
> people and people from their own countries

Shockingly, people join networks that are used by people they know and their
circle of friends is in their own country, for most part. If you think young
Indian people are desperately trying to copy what's cool in America you'd have
to explain why Whatsapp has been (and continues to be) the dominant network in
India, despite being a minor player in America.

~~~
sumedh
> you'd have to explain why Whatsapp has been (and continues to be) the
> dominant network in India

you have to pay for each sms in India so people preferred watsapp which was
free for unlimited sms.

The interface is simple even my mom understands how to use watsapp without me
explaining how to use it.

~~~
fpisfun
This is the case in many countries, is this way in Venezuela too, for example

------
EastLondonCoder
I got rid of my TV in 2003, I'd just lost my job and thought it'd be a good
idea to lose a distraction. It worked and was not particularly hard.

Now I did unleash an enormous amount of smugness towards everyone about how
good it was to not have a TV. Being snobbish about the choice I made with a
side of judgement to other people not having the same preference.

I think a lot of people here do something similar as soon facebook is
discussed. And I feel we are missing out on having a conversation about how
something as transformative as a personalised mediafeed impacts society
because signalling not being part of it gives more cred.

We all know that software companies in a very short time has amassed power
never seen before. It doesn't matter if you don't take part because at the end
of the day it will affect you anyway.

~~~
Nition
Not using Facebook is definitely the "I don't even own a TV" of Hacker News
recently.

------
osrec
If I was Facebook, I'd start to think about how to add more value to people's
lives. Their monetisation strategy is becoming increasingly annoying and their
service is not adding enough value to counter that. People will eventually
leave if you irritate them enough (see also comments on
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15922022](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15922022))

~~~
Balgair
This was the plan from the start though. Zuck took all that money in 2005 from
VCs and the like specifically to corner the market on Social Media (or at
least be #2 in the space). The entire idea with these start-ups is to become a
monopoly by being really good at it, and then when the competition is dead,
crank up the money making portion of the service to the point at which people
will _just_ not use it. These are 'Unicorn' investments, they are there to
make a billion dollars so that the VC is still solvent (1 unicorn covers the
99 other investments). Becoming a monopoly and then 'boiling the frogs' was
the entire idea.

~~~
osrec
This is really sad. Makes me want to start a lean, open source social network
that keeps the good stuff and does away with the bloat. I bet it could be
popular with intelligent people! Anyone interested, email me (see profile) :p

~~~
droopyEyelids
Intelligence is orthogonal to the basic desires Facebook uses to addict its
users

~~~
osrec
That's the point; it'd be nice to have something similar to Facebook without
all of the addictive trash. In my opinion, the concept of a social network in
itself isn't bad - it's just the monetisation bit that they've got terribly
wrong, along with the use of addictive media to bolster ad revenues.

~~~
Balgair
I'm less bullish on that idea.

The issue is the cost of the service. You have to pay for those servers
somehow and for updating the site to the latest versions of iOS or Windows or
whatever.

There have been MANY attempts at implementing a 'paid FB' or just a straight
attempt to tackle FB outright (Ello comes to mind). None have _thus far_
worked. Not saying you can't try, but talk to the other creators out there
first to learn from their mistakes.

Again, the issue is that servers cost money and you have to find the funding
somehow. Ads are good at that. Subscription services aren't _thus far_ , but
Patreon may be changing things.

Still, with NN out the window now, I'd chill and wait to see how the dust
settles.

~~~
osrec
You're right, but I'm tempted to do it anyway! Who's with me? Anyone? Guess
it's just me!

Seriously though, I know monetisation is tricky, but there must be a better
alternative to ads. I'm thinking something which can perhaps enrich the
quality of a user's experience for a fee, rather than earning via ads while
annoying the user.

~~~
chiefofgxbxl
In some ways I think Americans are cheap. I'm imagining a paid FB-like service
in the range of $5-10/mo, considering ISP packages can easily run up to
$80/mo, and a FB-like site should ideally only consume a portion of that.

But I think you really need to re-think the core concept of a social platform.
Can't find the comment on HN, but someone a few days ago mentioned: _social
platform vs. social technology_. A social platform is likely to be closed;
Facebook only wants you to communicate via Facebook, same with Twitter, G+,
etc. If you decide to email your friends instead of using FB, they lose out. A
social technology, however, doesn't care about other providers as much. Think
about a telephone company. They obviously want you to use their service, but
they don't care if you call someone who has a different carrier. Likewise,
they won't listen in to the content of your calls to tailor their service to
you, because them providing you phone data and the contents of your calls are
completely orthogonal.

Try thinking along the lines of a social technology, rather than a social
platform. E.g. my friends want to put together a movie/pizza night so they go
to Facebook to create a poll to decide on a movie and pizza toppings. Why
can't that be part of an SMS standard?

It seems to me like SMS has a lot of potential for future iterations. Right
now you can send texts and images to one or more people. Why not bake in other
features like polls, appointments, etc. It truly has frustrated me that my
friends will use Facebook to organize something that could easily be done over
SMS if it just had a few extra features.

~~~
osrec
Interesting points. I'm not sure if SMS is rich enough to support a full
fledged social tech, but I kind the idea of keeping the technology open. I
will definitely keep thinking about this!

~~~
chiefofgxbxl
Right, SMS probably wouldn't be able to bear that full weight of a whole
social tech, but I believe with just a few additional features added to its
spec (or a fork), the effort-to-payoff ratio would be large, if your goal is
to help ween people off of sites like Facebook. There's no reason why I
shouldn't just be able to use my phone to invite a bunch of friends to some
event, and have them indicate with a checkmark or red X whether they will be
going or not.

I have some other ideas that I was going to formally write up and thinking of
submitting it to Mozilla. Feel free to email me (email in my profile) to
discuss more if interested.

------
X-Istence
I've noticed that FB started inserting ads about 10 seconds into playing a
video. Now when I see the "about to start ad" I just go to the next video and
skip it.

Ads before videos just means I won't be watching videos on Facebook.

~~~
marinman
I'm in the same boat for the first part. I'll be thumbing through my feed and
see some quasi-interesting video but no matter how great it is, when I see
that "about to start ad" text, I just scroll on. Like on YouTube, I could
watch a pre-roll if I really, really want to watch it.

------
abentspoon
In a related move, Facebook disabled embedded videos from youtube/vimeo/etc
last month.

[https://vimeo.com/forums/help/topic:291071](https://vimeo.com/forums/help/topic:291071)

[https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/1963535797258090/?hc_lo...](https://developers.facebook.com/bugs/1963535797258090/?hc_location=ufi)

------
adjkant
For anyone using Facebook as a messaging/group/event service, I cannot
recommend the Facebook News Feed Eridactor more. It literally just blocks it
all. Not perfect for all users, but it has really helped me spend less time
wasting away scrolling out of habit.

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/news-feed-
eradicat...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/news-feed-eradicator-
for/fjcldmjmjhkklehbacihaiopjklihlgg?hl=en)

PS: The daily quote feature can be toggled off.

~~~
Simon_says
Can't you just block Facebook in your hosts file?

~~~
neinzero
Yes — but the parent comment says this is for those who use it for the
messenger/group/event features.

------
sp332
You can go to
[https://www.facebook.com/settings/?tab=videos](https://www.facebook.com/settings/?tab=videos)
and turn off auto-playing videos. I did this over a year ago and haven't
missed it.

~~~
dmitriid
THANK YOU

------
stevenh
Why are they allowed to monetize so much pirated/freebooted content?

~~~
fpisfun
It's doomed to fail. YouTube allows creators to profit and build businesses
for themselves. Facebook shares none of it's revenue with creators and this is
not a sustainable model in the long term.

~~~
ec109685
They will be sharing the 6 second proceeds with creators to encourage more
creators to post content to Facebook.

~~~
mcintyre1994
Even if they are sharing with uploaders, they're less creators and more
freeloaders pirating other people's YouTube content in most cases so this is
pretty irrelevant at best.

------
vuln
I for one cannot wait for the American Facebook user to actually sit down and
consider whether they pay their ISP $10 a month to be force fed ads in their
time line now throughout all videos and the finally put down the 'free' drug
that Facebook has become.

Edit: Not just Facebook but social media as a whole.

~~~
dave5104
$10 a month? Perhaps you missed a 0 there... Americans pay a lot more per
month to watch ads on the Internet.

~~~
panopticon
I think the comment was a jab at net neutrality (or our newfound lack
thereof).

------
dirtybirdnj
I've had a few videos on Facebook recently begin playing, and then 10sec in
start to play an ad.

I have since stopped watching FB videos.

~~~
njarboe
Imagine all the A/B/C/D/E/F/G testing going on at Facebook. I imagine that
they fine tune a lot of things just for you.

~~~
bcoates
Ad breaks are up to the video poster.

------
myf01d
Facebook is just a feed of only fake promoted posts now. It's become like
producthunt but promoting everything indirectly. I can't even see posts of
pages I like anymore. Couple of times I found that Facebook automatically
unliked pages that I had liked and haven't seen their posts in a year or
something.

~~~
pawelk
My wife make crochset things as a hobby, and she has decided to create a
facebook page to share the passion and show what she made. Most of the fans
are our mutual friends, but it has become sort of a side-income for her
(friends like to order some of the stuff she makes). Last year she had lots of
likes and orders for Christmas-themed stuff in Nov/Dec. This year all Facebook
gave us was nagging to "boost" posts for money, and pay to promote to reach X
more people etc. The content doesn't even reach our friends who are actively
waiting to see new stuff unless we share it using our personal accounts (and
even then it's nothing compared to last year). It's pay or fade away. That's
why the feed becomes all sponsored stuff.

~~~
myf01d
> pay or fade away

Facebook in a nutshell

------
rhizome
The slow, inexorable creep toward traditional business models continues.

------
mcintyre1994
> Videos must now last at least three minutes to be eligible for an “ad break”
> up from the previous threshold of 90 seconds. Facebook expects users will be
> more likely to watch ads in the middle of longer videos.

Why would anyone be okay with watching a 3 minute video with an ad at the
start and in the middle?

------
arkona
I will never understand why people insist on using Facebook. What is the
appeal? If you’re worth talking to, I will give you my phone number and we can
text. For longer messages, I will send you an email. I can keep track of my
contacts inside the Address book of my phone. What need exactly is Facebook
filling?

~~~
davidcbc
For me Facebook fills the need of a centralized place to communicate with my
close friends via Messenger, a place to keep track of niche interests via
groups, and a place to get invites to events by friends that I don't see or
talk to as often. I also use it to keep track of a few news sources.

I get it that some people don't want to use Facebook, but you really can't
understand why other people make a different decision?

~~~
b3lvedere
Oh i get it. My wife loves Facebook. It gives her a perfect easy way to
communicate with the people she wants to communicate with.

I don't hate Facebook. I just don't have any reason to use it.

I do hate ads though and i will keep trying to stop them.

------
King-Aaron
I'm already blowing over my data allowance each month thanks to things like
facebook, I don't see this helping me. I'd say "well, it's time to get off
Facebook then!" like so many people say, except the actual execution of that
plan is what seems to fail me.

------
digitalmaster
Of course.. this is the pressure that all public companies face; the pressure
to forever increase shareholder value @ whatever cost :-/.. Sad. I wonder if
FB is "too big to fail" or if there's a chance that more moves like this might
actually hurt the platform?

------
stefantheard
I have been instantly closing the Facebook app or Facebook page as soon as I
get any type of video ad. I feel like some ML algo will learn that I will not
watch video advertisements so eventually it may stop trying. This will make it
so I will not watch videos at all on Facebook anymore.

~~~
jermaustin1
Or it will ply you with them more frequently. Eventually it may be an ad when
you first launch the site/app, but don't worry, you can buy coins to skip it!

~~~
stefantheard
Oh god, yeah this will be the quickest way for my account to go from multiple
uses per day to 100% inactive.

------
pimmen
I use Messenger to get in touch with my friends from college and I'm a member
of a private group about AI. I actually don't use the birthday list because,
be honest, do you know if all your close friends and relatives on Facebook did
send you a birthday greeting? I have other notifications for my immediate
family's birthdays, I send them a text or call them at their birthday instead.

Deleting the Facebook app has been liberating. I spend more time learning new
stuff, consuming entertainment I actually enjoy, and building stuff than I did
before. Facebook was really unhealthy for me, and it could be that I'm
approaching my 30s but it just gives me no lasting enjoyment anymore.

------
dvcrn
I see some of the typical facebook hate posts but I personally don't mind it
at all. I removed the app from my phone and check the website maybe once or
twice a day. I get reminded about people that I would have forgotten otherwise
and sparks interest again. I also get a dose of updates what's happening in
terms of events and groups around me.

I also use it very successfully to sell things through free market groups when
things like craigslist got me close to new results besides a few scammers.

And messenger I use for normal staying-in-contact.

I don't see the need to delete my account, or to do a 'facebook cleanse
month'. It's a useful tool and I see it as that

------
dieterrams
Did company resist X?

Does company need to generate more revenue?

Company will give in to X.

~~~
fullshark
Presumably they didn't do it cause they wanted to build a userbase though. It
was always gonna be monetized they just preferred growth to money initially.

------
rygine
Just in case someone out there isn't aware, there's an app called Facebook
Local (formerly Facebook Events), which is focused on the events aspect of
Facebook. Great for continued participation in friends' events without all the
other stuff.

Surprisingly, it also seems to be good for finding local events if you're
looking for something to do.

------
huac
Few weeks ago they started this for Watch shows; now they're rolling it out
for everything.

[http://adage.com/article/digital/facebook-test-pre-roll-
vide...](http://adage.com/article/digital/facebook-test-pre-roll-video-ads-
ahead-watch-shows/311467/)

------
kakarot
You mean the ads that automatically play as I scroll down my feed? Oh yeah
boys, we're back in 2005 again :)

------
sturmeh
This combined with the fact that videos auto play means we're getting Video
ads on Facebook now, great.

------
Animats
Fortunately, videos don't run on Facebook if you have Ghostery and the EFF's
blocker enabled.

------
hsrada
Don't people here use the 'block newsfeed' extensions?

I think that's a nice middle ground to be on. I can still participate in
groups that I'm a member of, can still chat with friends, while not have the
awfulness that is the newsfeed shoved down my mind.

------
alexdoma
Will it be resource heavy for facebook to make the ads unblockable?

I remember when ublock stopped preventing spotify ads. It was when I stopped
using the service for about 2 weeks, until the blocking functionality was
reinstated.

------
Skylled
Worse is their current policy. I've seen my wife watch Facebook videos and an
ad will INTERRUPT THE VIDEO with a video of its own. That's completely
unacceptable, to me.

------
a3n
Broadcast TV isn't dying, it's moving to the Internet.

------
beedogs
This might be what gets me to finally abandon my Facebook account for good.
They couldn't find a more aggravating way to squeeze the last drop of blood
from this stone.

------
amelius
Anyone interested in developing and maintaining a tool that automatically
erases Facebook activity older than N days, for the current user?

It would be much appreciated!

------
peterjlee
So are they gonna introduce Facebook Pro for $9.99/mo? I gave up and just pay
for YouTube now. I rarely watch videos on Facebook though.

------
jayess
Facebook is more and more just a cesspool.

------
bg4
Facebook is harmful to you and to society. Delete it.

I deleted it months ago and my life is better for it.

------
aussieguy123
so..i'll be scrolling through my feed and ill see my friend post what appears
to be a video ad. I'm smart enough to know its just a facebook ad, but alot of
people will be tricked and actually think their friend is endorsing a product.

------
jackaroe78
It's almost like you can choose whether or not to use Facebook

------
ggregoire
Can I delete my FB account but keep Messenger with all my contacts?

~~~
siquick
Yes

------
Mc_Big_G
Another reason to delete your facebook account.

~~~
quickthrower2
One does not simply delete their Facebook account.

------
jacksmith21006
Just more reason to watch videos on YouTube..

------
verytrivial
mbasic.facebook.com -- this is the only interface I use. If you're hooked on
Messenger, I can't help you.

------
w0m
As i ~never watch a facebook video again

------
hkmurakami
Must be a push for ARPU growth

------
greggarious
They have to make up for the loss of all those Russian ad buys somehow now
that election season is over.

------
chasedehan
Paywall?

~~~
jwilk
[https://archive.is/gDJXE](https://archive.is/gDJXE)

------
yeukhon
I used to like Facebook a lot. I would argue about politics there like a lot
of people did in 2016. Facebook wss where I got my news for a while. Nah, I
have unfollowed those toxic pages (e.g “Now This”)

I was bothered by my mental illness this year and I live streamed my suicide
attempt twice and it was not pretty to watch. Friends all freaked out and
tried to get someone to help me. I guess I did that because “that’s where
people get to see me”.

A few months ago I deactivated my facebook for about a month and I maintained
my relationship strictly over WhatsApp. It worked great. There was no
pressure. I eventually reactivated it so I can spend some more time with a
really good friend.

Now, like my Instagram, most of the pages I follow now are about cats, some
cultural stuff, and a number of youtubers.

I still get to see what my friends are doing and that’s great. I still share
pictures and updates with my friends. But I am not so attached to it anymore
(and the stupid iOS app has been crashing every 30 seconds for no freakin’
reason) - Facebook team please fix it.

You don’t have to deactivate the account, but please clean up your newsfeed
first. Unfollow pages you don’t want and clean up friend list.

Use the good part of Facebook and you will be fine.

