
Show HN: Plain Email – An app for one-touch email processing - apancik
http://www.plainemail.com/
======
Xeoncross
This assumes an inbox is a type of "project" that needs to be "completed".
It's structured on the concept of removing messages from my screen until there
is nothing left for me to "do".

My inbox is often more of a conversation that I fade in and out of. Sometimes
it resembles a facebook feed. Granted, I'm not a type A personality, but not
all email is has to be "done" anymore than all reading books need to be
"done". They can be continuous reference or contemplation for a time.

I guess it depends on if we are talking about work email or personal email.
Perhaps even more, it's just about perception.

~~~
ignoramous
\----

Empirically, the way to do really big things seems to be to start with
deceptively small things. Want to dominate microcomputer software? Start by
writing a Basic interpreter for a machine with a few thousand users. Want to
make the universal web site? Start by building a site for Harvard undergrads
to stalk one another.

...

I think the way to use these big ideas is not to try to identify a precise
point in the future and then ask yourself how to get from here to there, like
the popular image of a visionary. You'll be better off if you operate like
Columbus and just head in a general westerly direction. Don't try to construct
the future like a building, because your current blueprint is almost certainly
mistaken. Start with something you know works, and when you expand, expand
westward.

The popular image of the visionary is someone with a clear view of the future,
but empirically it may be better to have a blurry one.

\----

Paul Graham, on Frighteningly Ambitious Start-up Ideas.

[http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/ambitious.html)

~~~
abcampbell
Do you think no one has fixed email because the problem is too hard, or
because there is a lack of creative/ambitious founders?

~~~
vorador
The main reason is that you need to be backward compatible with 30 years of
terrible hacks. That's why there's a ton of vaporware email clients ---
there's a huge amount of work that most of your users don't suspect.

Full-disclosure: I work at a company building an open source email client
([https://nylas.com/N1](https://nylas.com/N1)) and an API to simplify email
([https://nylas.com/docs](https://nylas.com/docs))

~~~
rabblac
Well, it's from some time that I've been looking for a modern and open source
email client, but N1 looks very promising.

Little question: do you plan to support PGP?

~~~
grinich
It's in development by several N1 users:
[https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/96](https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/96)

------
grinich
This is really cool, and nice design!

I work at Nylas and would love to incorporate some of this into N1, which is
an open source mail app we built that also uses Electron.
([https://nylas.com/n1](https://nylas.com/n1)).

If the author's hanging out in this thread, feel free to email me :) We could
also make it work for non-Gmail using our open source IMAP stack!

~~~
apancik
I've been checking out N1 before I started playing with this. Great job! Will
shoot you an email soon!

------
semerda
Is email really broken or are people looking for things to change?

Reason I ask is because I see this "let's fix email" so often, peeps build
something new then it either gets acquired & killed or goes no where.

What if email isn't broken. Instead email as we think we see it is merely a
feed with or without action and its up to us to manage it.

PlainEmail appears like an attempt of changing our habits of reading a feed
with GTD concepts. I'd much rather prefer to see my feed and an algo/machine
learning identify action emails and suggest to me the best method (GTD or not)
to handle it. Otherwise I'd carry on with my usual habits.

~~~
bachmeier
> What if email isn't broken.

I tend to agree. The problem is that we choose to spend our time in a
suboptimal manner. The email inbox is just a tool that makes it easier to
waste our time. It's not like getting rid of the email inbox will keep others
from sending us stuff we don't want or keep our bosses from asking us to do
crazy things. If you want to fix email, recognize that you can't respond to
everything, and hit the delete button more often.

------
andreshb
This is exactly what I need, I've been hoping for years for someone to create
this. I even tried to do my own mutt installation to have a terminal / simple
like e-mail.

I'd even go as far as removing the mouse and only doing keyboard shortcuts. Do
not include attachments or images. I love it's full screen.

This will not be for everyone, and that is really OK, this is for people that
must respond to a lot of emails very quickly, even if they are not on e-mail
all day. I just spent 2 days going through actionable 475 unread e-mails (not
newsletters, or spam)

I've always thought, software developers have vim, but there's nothing for
business developers.

Thank you very much for creating this. If you will charge, I will gladly pay.

Take my money!

------
hammock
Let's try a bit of wordsmithing.

Either stick to the 4 D's of GTD: Delete, Do, Delegate, Defer; or use the
commonplace terms: Archive, Reply, Forward, Snooze. When you do this, do you
start to realize how similar it looks to existing email clients?

By the way you say there is no Snooze button- then what is Defer?

And one-touch, not "single-touch."

~~~
jdmichal
If I'm reading it right, "defer" means you actually schedule an appointment in
a calendar. I much rather prefer the idea of snoozing (a fixed delay before
reappearing) better. If I'm not interested in dealing with something now, then
I'm also not really interested in vetting calendar space for it at that exact
moment either.

~~~
krrrh
In GTD parlance defer doesn't require a calendar appointment, it just means
'don't do right now'. Basically if a task takes more than 2 minutes to do but
you intend to do it at some point, then it should not interrupt processing,
but should be moved from an inbox to a 'trusted system' for organizing and
tracking tasks.

Snoozing works ok, but strict GTD tries to build a discipline of not having
items re-appear in the inbox. If it's moved to a list of things to handle,
then it can be ignored or placed at a lower priority on that list.

~~~
shostack
Any suggestions for a Gmail user on how to best integrate "Snooze-like"
functionality into my workflow?

~~~
michaelfavia
Google offers Inbox which has built in snooze. I used it for 6 months or so
and liked it. Lack of ICS support eventually soured me on the interface.

------
Mahn
So, this looks interesting, but what does the "Tinder for email" analogy have
to do with it?

~~~
sithadmin
People need to stop treating the 'X for Y' analogy construct like it's the
Uber for analogies.

~~~
tomc1985
'X for Y' analogies are older than technology... good luck...

~~~
Apocryphon
It's radio for your eyes!

------
vinceguidry
I treat emails as open loops. I currently have four in my inbox representing
three open loops. I consider "inbox zero" to be a counter-productive strategy
focused on the wrong things.

I still do GTD-style triage, but I'm more willing to let stuff sit in queues.
Inevitably I get sick of looking at it and do something about it, moving it
into a backlog or working out a way to just do it right now.

But my life isn't one where more productivity would really net me all that
many life improvements. Generally, if I can visualize a pathway to a real life
improvement, motivation to get it done is not an issue.

My life generally consists of trying to solve really hard, complicated
situations using mostly intuition. Staring at something sitting in a queue is
often all I need to get that intuition going. "Why do I want this? How does
this connect to other parts of my life?"

~~~
mikegioia
I completely agree with this. I manage my inbox the same way and stare at
lists thinking that as well. Are you using any different email client right
now?

~~~
vinceguidry
I just use Gmail. At work, I use the Office 365 web mail client. I absolutely
hate it, but it gets the job done.

~~~
mikegioia
Yea me too. What I really want is something that looks like Trello where the
first list is my Inbox, and then there are 2-3 other lists that I can make up
like "This week", "Next week" etc.

~~~
vinceguidry
Sounds like a good candidate for paper and pen to me.

Software just complicates task lists.

------
zanewill9
Although there's a strong "email sucks" sentiment in the world, I believe the
truth is that email is a complex system that has actually already evolved
quite well. Gmail is quite an adept tool.

The inherent issue is volume - which isn't per-se the fault of the medium.
Filtering and categorization has been the primary answer there - and those
things (including this post) have helped evolve those issues.

------
epaga
Ah, this concept reminds me of one of the first apps I did, years ago, called
EmptyInbox - [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/emptyinbox-for-
gmail/id50994...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/emptyinbox-for-
gmail/id509942554?mt=8) (Yay skeuomorphism!)

It only supports GMail, but still works as far as I know. Back then it was the
only app I knew that had that concept, but by now there is Triage, plus most
modern mail clients have the "swipe" actions for quickly getting through
emails.

------
cdmo
Honestly I don't know why people keep trying to do this kind of thing:
reinventing email. Email works fine and nothing has been able to replace it
(e.g., Google Wave, Mailbox, etc). I think the reason is that email works fine
for most people. And if it isn't, a new tool to help you manage it isn't going
to fix your problems. It'll probably just create new ones.

The answer to "my inbox is crazy" is to work through your inbox - if there's
too much for you to work through then you need to do less. That's it.

~~~
CptJamesCook
The point of the app isn't to reinvent email. It's to help you get through
your inbox quicker.

~~~
cdmo
Yes, good point.

And I hate to sound like a wet blanket on a new tool/thing. Just an honest
reaction to yet another email aid app. I'm sure there will be people who use
this and find it useful.

I'm just trying to make the point that at some point all the
lifehacks/efficiency-improvements in the world will not fix the problem of
being over-burdened.

~~~
lyqwyd
No tool will ever solve the problem of being over-burdened, as becoming more
efficient just means doing more in the same amount of time.

Being over-burdened is a personal / social problem, and the only solution is
not taking on / expecting more than is realistic... easier said than done!

Efficient use of time is it's own goal, and is orthogonal to the overall load.

------
jurajmasar
"Made with <3 while procrastinating on actually dealing with email."

~~~
overcast
I think my next project, I'm going to say "Made with little sleep,
frustration, and no social life".

~~~
eric001
Off topic, but who started this "Made with <3" thing?

~~~
overcast
Not sure, but it needs to go away along with all the other feel good nonsense.
Like every startup looking for "ninjas, gurus, and rock stars".

~~~
artursapek
"Made with VCs breathing down our necks"

~~~
misuba
What's the emoticon for mortal terror, though?

~~~
qq66
D-:>

------
bttf
Reading "Tinder for Email" nearly made me headbutt my screen.

~~~
stinkytaco
Did it? Really?

Like as in you started your head toward the screen but stopped? Or perhaps it
occurred to you that headbutting the screen would be desirable but you
refrained from doing so out of regard for your health and the health of your
equipment. Or are you simply using "headbutting your screen" as an analogy for
how you felt, which would be sort of ironic.

------
joch
I like the approach! I'm a GTD user and would love for the app to integrate
with OmniFocus, meaning that defer and delegate are added to the appropriate
place within my contexts and projects.

------
msellout
Why is "defer" different from "snooze"? Both indicate picking a time to deal
with the email.

~~~
orky56
Defer seems to ambiguously capture both snooze and delegate.

~~~
robotresearcher
Defer only means to put off until later. There's no delegate meaning.

[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defer](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defer)

~~~
orky56
2nd definition further down has this:

verb (used without object), deferred, deferring. 1\. to yield respectfully in
judgment or opinion (usually followed by to): We all defer to him in these
matters.

~~~
robotresearcher
OK I agree that's closer to delegate, while not the same. You couldn't
substitute 'delegate' into that sentence, for example.

------
apancik
I've edited the title from "tinder for email" as causing confusion wasn't the
goal. Thanks for all the feedback!

~~~
cellularmitosis
"An email client with a Tinder-like UX" probably would have been less
confusing.

------
tommoor
Another app built on Electron, cool to see the platform enabling web
developers to make the jump to application development

~~~
softawre
I've been using CEF for many years where I work, nothing new (as usual).

------
o_____________o
Good stuff.

Why did you use "respond" instead of "reply"? It's just as descriptive, and is
the canonical term. It takes mental overhead to parse new terminology.

And I see the business angle in "delegate", but forwarding isn't always for
purposes of delegation.

Maybe this: Dismiss Sleep Forward Reply

~~~
apancik
I used "respond" straight from Merlin Mann's lecture. I agree that it might
create some mental overhead. I'll make a note to change it

~~~
nacs
Honestly, you should change all the words except "Done". When people are using
"simple" email software, they don't want to have to think about
dictionary/uncommon words like "defer" and "delegate".

------
rhodysurf
Google Inbox kinda does the same thing

Looks cool though

------
arihant
I believe I'll have the same problem with this app that I have with Kindle --
the lack of flipability in the name of apparent convenience and simplicity.

There is an unspoken importance in an inbox glance, in seeing a list of
"undone" email and getting a gist of things. There is a similar feeling in
flipping pages of an entire book.

Imagine being in a room where you only see one object at a time, you can
either use it or defer it for a later time. Simple? Yes. Will I hope to
stumble upon a gun to put in my mouth? Indeed.

There is a magic in looking at the world and _deciding_ on what to do. It's
much faster, efficient, and satisfying.

------
hellbanner
Their 4 actions are also known as

Delete (done, or archive) Label Forward

....

------
toddsiegel
I just downloaded it. I like "response", "delegate", and "defer", and
"unsubscribe".

I do not like that is only runs in fullscreen, but I think I get why you're
doing it.

I current use Google Inbox and set my default "done" action to delete. You
should support the notion of "done forever".

I maybe keep 10% of the email I receive. Having a heavy hand with deletion
forces me to think about the value of the communication and to capture the
important actions and details in my todo system.

~~~
robbyking
FWiW, it doesn't _only_ run in full screen, it just launches in full screen.

------
akoumjian
Inbox has essentially these features. What are the advantages here?

~~~
tomasien
Containing features does not a well designed product make. Matter of taste,
but it's the removing of features that makes this concept interesting.

~~~
akoumjian
Inbox is pretty darn minimalistic, and it's batching 'done' action makes inbox
0 pretty easy.

------
erikb
The days of open source propaganda are long gone, at least for me. But this
sounds like a thing that should be put into open source, in a way that not
just the own gui can use it but that other email client creators can integrate
it as well (i.e. a library). We've seen so many email clients come and go,
having a single app do that is not enough to stay in the game.

------
heywire
Just a heads up, my workplace McAfee Web Gateway filters this website under
the category "Phishing" with a "Medium Risk" reputation. Perhaps the previous
domain owner wasn't the most reputable. Not sure what you have to do to get
off of McAfee's list, but wanted to mention it as it might keep people from
being able to visit your site.

~~~
apancik
Thanks for the note! I will look into it

------
oliv__
I dont know about you but I like to go back and re-read some of my old email.

Does the _DONE_ button delete or archive your email?

~~~
apancik
"Done" just archives

------
athenot
Would be intersting to be able to tag the email as it's being marked "Done".
It's the GTD analogy of filing it away. Yes full-text search can turn up
almost anything but a tag may help for smartmailboxes or further post-
processing work.

~~~
orky56
This Gmail workflow that I use religiously does the tagging but lacks
PlainEmail's distraction-free interface to take the actions. I'm currently
using keyboard shorts to accomplish this: L (to label), then P (for
priority)/W (for waiting) or just Star (for reference).
[http://klinger.io/post/71640845938/dont-drown-in-email-
how-t...](http://klinger.io/post/71640845938/dont-drown-in-email-how-to-use-
gmail-more)

------
Walkman
I really liked Mailbox (later acquired by Dropbox). It was clean, easy, zero
inbox with one million user signups at the beginning and what happened to
them? Went to the kitchen sink... I expect the same from this.

------
peterwwillis
This takes actions you could perform on dozens of e-mails at once [via
checkboxes] and makes it one-at-a-time. Seems inefficient.

Also, I'm not hooking up with people via e-mail, so perhaps drop the Tinder
comparison.

------
S77
Cool product. From a design perspective I really love the website, you've done
extremely well. Just a small note I believe the typography could be improved
by implementing more headers.

------
Sir_Cmpwn
I was hoping that this was going to be about using plaintext emails. It's
pretty cool, though. I have a very similar workflow with mutt and a few
keybindings.

------
kepano
Triage: [http://triage.cc](http://triage.cc)

Same idea. Quickly clean out your inbox, with a Tinder-like UI. It works well.

------
tomc1985
Too... Plain for my tastes. Not really feeling this whole "apps should look
like websites" thing. And too much whitespace!

~~~
cellularmitosis
You've addressed the visual presentation. Now, what do you think about the
ideas he is presenting?

~~~
tomc1985
The app itself is yet-another-email-client. Those original verbs in the
screenshot are just pre-built macros. I don't consider "Inbox Zero" a worthy
goal -- because the REAL goal should be reducing your total volume of email,
by conducting one's work in a way that minimizes reliance and interactions
with other people for day-to-day matters.

IMHO the REAL solution to less email is smarter communications and personal
empowerment: keep your meetings short and laser-focused, keep conversations
focused and purposeful, make sure everyone is in sync before beginning, and
don't hire/work with stupids. I shouldn't have to email Bob just to ask him to
request deliverable X -- I should be empowered (and intelligent) enough to get
X on my own, and if I don't know how then I should use my powers of
observation and inference to figure that out.

People over-rely on email, and on communication in general.

------
Pathshare
Very nicely designed, great job.

Defer sounds a little strange, other than that absolutely something I will try
out..

------
juskrey
Isn't "DONE DELEGATE RESPOND DEFER" "Archive Forward Respond Mark-
as-(un)Read"?

------
tomasien
Love this, hate "Tinder for Email" as a tagline. Keep us updated!

------
theyCallMeSwift
This is awesome. Are you planning on open sourcing the prototype?

------
rajadigopula
Need "Spam"!

------
sccxy
Why this website needs 11 javascript, 12 css & 6 font files?

Numbers from [http://www.webpagetest.org](http://www.webpagetest.org)

~~~
z5h
The developer was probably busy writing apps and giving them away for free,
and decided not to spend time optimizing the page.

~~~
josefresco
Page is pretty well put together (indicating some time was spent) - all the JS
is for the "fancy" fading/sliding effects and is quite comment. Parent is
being harsh, but you're also being too reactionary.

------
teabee89
Defer is always greyed out. Why is that?

~~~
_Rex
I've got this too.

~~~
g10r
Defer is just not built yet, that's all.

------
fiatjaf
"Tinder for email"? Really?

------
andrewmcwatters
* Email software * Main design aesthetical feature is whitespace * Generic name * Monochromatic gradient * Modern typestack * Rounded buttons * Made with heart emojis

This landing page and design could have been generated by software that
intentionally crafted status quo product examples, and I would not be able to
tell it apart from something legitimately created.

This is a product of the times, not a product pushing the our times forward.
It really is like the output of a Markov chain product generator.

