
Accepted to a well-known accelerator in Fall, but B1 visa to the US denied - techtivist
I will be attending a well-known (obviously not YC) accelerator in US in the fall. But my B1 visa was just denied under section 214b, for apparently &quot;not having convincing reason to returning&quot;. What are my options here? Would appreciate help from any immigrant entrepreneurs out there.
======
Someone1234
Unfortunately after a denial it is much harder to apply again as they'll check
your previous application and look for alterations (i.e. lies or additions).

A business accelerator doesn't really fall into any one visa category well. Is
it a 2-3 month "business meeting" (i.e. B-1), is it educational (i.e. F-1), or
even a "short course" eligible under a travel visa (B-2)? All of the above?

The reason you got denied is as it says, and while you can re-apply providing
more evidence it will be an uphill battle. You just have to show WHY you'll be
returning home (e.g. family, a job, other obligations)? By any chance did you
list yourself as self-employed, rather than an employee of your own company?
They hate self-employed people and often treat them as "unemployed."

~~~
techtivist
Thanks for the response. The USCIS website actually now says that being in an
accelerator is fine with a B1, and in fact if the accelerator has fixed start
and end date that can act as a proof that I will return home after the
accelerator ends. Look at [http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-
visitor/und...](http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-
visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements) under "How do I show that I intend to
remain for a limited time?", it's the 3rd point.

Silly me, I didn't see that before the interview. Anyways, my interviewer was
new and had no idea what an accelerator was.

What I am doing now is interviewing in another city, with the same
application, albeit with added true information that would support why I want
to come back, which I honestly do in the short term as my parents are unwell.
The city I interviewed in first has almost no startups, so they have never
encountered a situation like this before. This time I am interviewing in a
city that has a history of sending startups to US accelerators including YC
and Techstars.

Let's see, I am interviewing this week. Taking all documents including my
parents medical documents and a printout of the page above. Fingers crossed!

------
Spoom
They want to see ties to your current country, i.e., reasons why you NEED to
leave the US to return after your accelerator program is complete. Do you have
a lease? Are you a current student? Do you have family remaining in your home
country? Do you have other non-negotiable responsibilities in your home
country?

B1 is a non-immigrant visa; you need to convince them that you are not going
to attempt to immigrate.

~~~
zura
Interesting. So if you decide to immigrate with B1, you have to do so
illegally, right? And in this case your only option is blue collar jobs. But
someone with enough knowledge and skills who is able to get into some
accelerator program obviously won't go for these kind of jobs...

But in case if it is possible to legally immigrate with B1, then what's the
problem?

~~~
Spoom
If you decide to immigrate with a B1, you generally have to return home first
and apply for an immigrant visa, unless you fall into a category whereby you
can immediately file for an Adjustment of Status (which is almost certain to
cause red flags to go up at USCIS).

There are certain visa classes that are considered "dual-intent"[1], meaning
that you can have the intent to immigrate while obtaining a formally non-
immigrant visa. One such visa is the K-1 fiance(e) visa, which allows one to
enter the United States for the purpose of marrying one's US Citizen fiance(e)
within 90 days and subsequently applying for an Adjustment of Status (i.e.
green card). The B class is not one of these, so you need to overcome the
immigration / CBP officer's presumption that you intent to immigrate[2].

OP: Note that you are free to reapply for the visa; make sure you read the
instructions on the form and fulfill the evidence requirements as much as
possible.

1\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent)

2\.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Requirement_to_overcome_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Requirement_to_overcome_presumption_of_intending_immigrant)

~~~
zura
I was asking about the concern of immigration officer - why should they have
this presumption if you're, say, an experienced software engineer or similarly
high skilled educated professional. Nobody with these skillset are going to
stay somewhere illegally and work [without permit] in "dirty"/heavy job space.

~~~
Someone1234
A software engineer could trivially illegally migrate to the US and then make
money via their trade (e.g. freelance development work, app sales, pretty much
anything online, telecommuting abroad).

You're right in the sense that it would be hard to get a normal 9-5 job
without a visa/SSN but you're dismissing a huge number of alternative routes
to income which wouldn't even depend on the person's physically being in the
US (e.g. open a Google Developer account as if you were still in your home
country, pay taxes there, but do it all from the US).

Plus your assumption that developers are "above" working in blue collar jobs
is flawed. There are tons of fully certified Indian doctors working blue
collar jobs abroad right now, developers are no better.

~~~
zura
OK, refusing a visa because of your last sentences makes sense - i.e. to
prevent you from "stealing" blue collar jobs from US citizens.

But in your first sentences, you describe quite self-sufficient/sustained
person - who "steals" nothing from US people. He/she even contributes to US
economy by living there - paying rent, eating food, etc... plus not using US
social system. So why such person is not welcome then?

~~~
Someone1234
I wasn't responding in order to clarify "why" the visa system is the way it
is. I was simply pointing out that your assumption that "no developer would
ever illegally migrate because they couldn't get a job once in the destination
country" argument is flawed.

The way the current US visa system is structured self-sustainability isn't
really their primary motivator, the primary motivator seems closer to "just
keep everyone out UNLESS they provide enough value to US society as a whole"
(e.g. people with high sought after skills or qualifications).

------
hpagey
Attending an accelerator on B1 visa is always a dicey proposition. On B1, you
are not allowed to gainfully employed, i.e. you cannot run a company but you
can conduct activities like,

a) attending meetings, b) Solicit sales or investment c) Make investments or
purchases d) Interview or hire staff, etc etc.

As you can see the line is very thin between whats allowed and whats not.

~~~
techtivist
Yeah, but it's getting better now even if informally. See this link
[http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-
visitor/und...](http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-
visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements) under "How do I show that I intend to
remain for a limited time?" It explicitly mentions accelerators. As long as
you are not "employed" by the company, or more specifically the US
incorporated entity, it's okay.

The problem is that there's no "directive" as such, so a lot depends on the
interviewer one has, because it's so subjective. Mine was new and had never
heard of what an accelerator was. He thought it was an MBA!

But there's no scope for an appeal, one has to reapply and pay the hefty
application fee again!

------
vishalzone2002
Sorry to hear that. You are better off talking to the accelerator and see if
they could move you to another batch. B1 visa is a tricky visa. You need to
have clear reasons for returning back to your country. You can show them any
liquid and non-liquid asset that you own, maybe an inc. company,etc.

~~~
techtivist
Thanks, I am going to give it another try. My first thought was to register
the company here, but it takes 2 months to do so! But worse comes to worst, I
will have to do that and ask the accelerator to move be to a different batch.

------
dennybritz
Where are you from? Why did you apply for a B visa instead of taking a tourist
visa (or visa waiver)?

~~~
Spoom
B is the tourist / work visa class, and not every country is on the visa
waiver program.

~~~
techtivist
Exactly, my country isn't on the visa waiver program. So B1(/B2) is my only
option.

------
phaus
Gotta love our Visa system.

Oh, you play videogames professionally? Have a Visa!

Oh, you are starting a business? Our economy's bad, but we like it that way.
Starting a business might change that. Why don't you learn to play League of
Legends or become a fashion model and then try again?

------
atroyn
What country are you from? Is the visa waiver program available to you?

~~~
mataniko
Even if your country is a participant in the VWP program, once you got denied
a visa you're no longer eligible for entry under the VWP

~~~
atroyn
This is not true.

~~~
mataniko
Please don't provide advice on things you're not sure of such as the VWP.
[http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-
wai...](http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-waiver-
program.html) look under "Previous Compliance and No Prior Visa
Ineligibilities"

~~~
atroyn
Please don't assume I'm unsure of it, I am speaking from my own experience as
a foreign founder who travelled to the U.S last year, including 3 separate
entries at 3 different airports under the Visa waiver program after a B1/B2
refusal.

I also helped bring in the rest of my team under B1 and E3 visas, including
one team member who was at one point flagged by CBP and had to re-enter under
the B1 rather than the VWP.

~~~
falsestprophet
How did you bring in team members to work in the country on a B1 visa? That is
expressly forbidden.

~~~
atroyn
To be clear, these were co-founders and our company was also incorporated
outside the U.S, which allowed for more room for manoeuvre.

Many things that are 'forbidden' on paper turn out to not be so when it comes
to the visa process. Many other things that aren't mentioned at all become
crucial factors. The U.S visa process is incredibly onerous, and giving facts
only as necessary was what worked for us.

