
Linux on the (consumer) Desktop - mgunes
http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2012-09-10-desktop-linux.html
======
drblast
It's fascinating to watch people totally underestimate the lock Microsoft has
on the corporate computing environment. This article suggests that it would be
easier to break into the business/enterprise desktop than it would be to sell
to consumers.

It's probably just about the opposite. Linux is many years away from the level
of plug-it-in-and-forget-it integration that Windows has. Linux is light years
away from having anything resembling Active Directory in quality. And like it
or not, the corporate world lives and dies by Office.

I'd say if you want to make progress, the consumer space is the only possible
bet, and it won't be on desktop computers but on tablets and embedded devices
which, for the most part, will replace people's keyboard and monitor machines
at home.

But not in the office.

~~~
eckyptang
+1 I don't think there is a proposition as powerful as the entire Microsoft
ecosystem on the business desktop.

There is also support, training, excellent literature and documentation, large
quantities of staff, functional software at a reasonable price and as you
mention: Active directory (which is awesome if you actually understand it).

If you've seen some of the shit I've seen wired up to Office in the last few
years, you'll get it. It's just awesome. Entire businesses hang of it. It
might not be clean and squeaky but it's functional and does the job. Google
Docs + iWork + LibreOffice are precisely zero competition.

(I have to add this to each of these posts to avoid the shill downvotes: I am
primarily a Linux user which suits me but I don't think it'd suit most
people).

------
shmerl
I think all of this is close to be pointless, when there is an abundant and
sickening Windows bundling problem which persists until present day. End users
don't care about any ISVs, ABIs and other such matters, and some even don't
have a clue about OS names. They buy a computer with an OS preinstalled. And
guess what that OS is? That's the problem which needs to be solved first. The
rest as the author admits, will be solved under the market pressure.

~~~
eckyptang
Have you considered that windows is good enough for the end users and
represents good value?

People don't want to make a choice or have to care about what they buy. The
ISVs are quite happy to ship windows as they have reusable experience and it's
just plugging things together.

The reason no market share destroying competition has appeared is that people
are quite happy apart from a minority of users who are quite vocal.

consider that are more windows power users than there are mac users and Linux
users combined.

I'm a Linux user (heavy with 15 years' experience) but i don't have a problem
with the current situation.

~~~
shmerl
_Have you considered that windows is good enough for the end users and
represents good value?_

Same as Linux in this day and age (if user has such option).

 _The reason no market share destroying competition has appeared is that
people are quite happy apart from a minority of users who are quite vocal._

With this logic any kind of monopoly can be justified, but it doesn't make
monopoly good per se. Artificial lack of competition is bad.

 _consider that are more windows power users than there are mac users and
Linux users combined._

Network effect is part of the problem, but the bundling issue is just a method
to feed it. So one way to break it - is to remove the bundling blocker to
allow fair competition.

~~~
eckyptang
Firstly, reinforcing my position before I say something good about Microsoft:
I am a Linux user and have been for 15 years. Before that, it was Solaris and
HP/UX. I do a fair bit of work with Windows, particularly .Net at the moment.
I'm pretty much neutral. It's a box that does a job.

I don't get these arguments: the user has the option. In the UK, there are
magazines on every shelf in every newsagent pushing Linux and in every PC
related stored they are pretty much giving Ubuntu away (yes they even had a
box at the checkout in PC World with free CDs - completely untouched). You can
buy PC's with it preinstalled and buy PCs with no operating system so you can
install it.

I know MANY "normal" non enthusiast and non power users from social housing
unemployed to professionals who have used Linux distributions and just end up
back with Windows. Everyone knows what Linux is or has heard of it.

I don't think Microsoft is a monopoly - they just work pretty well on the
desktop for most users (well they did until Windows 8 but I'm not going there
in this discussion ;-). The competition is there but it's not really
competition in mindshare as people are comfortable.

If you forcibly removed the bundling, you are going to get nowhere i.e. people
saying "Can I just have it with Windows on it". Also, at the sales desk, the
salesperson is going to make a few extra readies for selling Windows with a PC
so you're going to lose anyway.

Take a look at where IBM is now compared to the late 1980's. They monopolised
and beat their competition to death and they didn't survive in that market.
Microsoft's time will come if they fuck up or piss off a lot of people, but at
the moment they do what people want for a price that people want to pay.

The idealisms of "Microsoft sucks" and is a "monopoly" remind me of Slashdot
circa 2001 onwards where OSX and Linux were going to take over the world and
destroy Microsoft.

Sorry it ain't going to happen and I'm not really that bothered myself.

~~~
takluyver
> In the UK, there are magazines on every shelf in every newsagent pushing
> Linux and in every PC related stored they are pretty much giving Ubuntu away
> (yes they even had a box at the checkout in PC World with free CDs -
> completely untouched). You can buy PC's with it preinstalled and buy PCs
> with no operating system so you can install it.

Is this the same UK I live in? The newsagents I see might have one Linux
magazine lurking behind the iPad magazines. And you really have to go looking
for computers that come with Linux preinstalled or no OS. Dell stopped
offering them online, and I haven't seen a Linux PC in a retail store since
the brief wave of Linux netbooks. I found a small business that sold me a
computer with my choice of distro on, but they didn't really promote the
option at all.

> If you forcibly removed the bundling, you are going to get nowhere i.e.
> people saying "Can I just have it with Windows on it"

"Sure, that will be £20 extra" (a complete guess at the OEM Windows price)

Obviously preinstalled Linux systems aren't going to topple Windows overnight
- there's a lot of network effects and familiarity there. But at the same
time, it would definitely benefit Linux adoption if consumers regularly saw an
option to use Ubuntu, say, with known-good hardware and without having to
install it themselves. Not many would take it at first, but a few people would
go home and look it up.

> Everyone knows what Linux is or has heard of it.

Many people have heard of it, certainly, but they often have some vague idea
that it's a command-line interface for ultra nerdy experts. That's why Android
and Ubuntu both avoid using the word 'Linux' in their public branding.

~~~
shmerl
_> Many people have heard of it, certainly, but they often have some vague
idea that it's a command-line interface for ultra nerdy experts. That's why
Android and Ubuntu both avoid using the word 'Linux' in their public
branding._

That actually is a lack of gratitude and failure to improve Linux image on
their part. But I agree with the rest of the above. Removing the bundling
won't magically solve all issues, but it's a huge blocker which prevents any
kind of solutions from reaching the broader audience.

~~~
takluyver
> [Avoiding the word Linux] actually is a lack of gratitude and failure to
> improve Linux image on their part

I don't see it quite like that. Firstly, I'm not sure that the people working
on Linux (the kernel) particularly want to be a popular brand - it would mean
a deluge of naive questions, apart from anything else.

Secondly, Ubuntu benefits from Linux, GNU tools, X, Gnome, Debian, and many
other projects. In techie circles, they readily acknowledge that it wouldn't
be possible without the work done in those upstream projects. But trying to
fit them into the public branding would confuse users.

~~~
shmerl
For general population, Linux became the name of the whole stack of related
technologies rather than the kernel name, so not using it (by Ubuntu at least)
is a disservice to everyone involved. I'm OK with Android not using it, since
they are too far apart from the rest of the Linux world anyway and aren't
benefiting global Linux community much. Just my 2 cents.

------
ricardobeat
I'm betting long on ElementaryOS[1]. It's a distro that wants to be top-notch
in UX, design, developer APIs and system frameworks. They even have a Human
Interfaces Guideline. Still a work in progress, but I used their previous
release for a while and it was just a breeze of fresh air after Gnome/Unity,
and surprisingly stable.

Two things are real blockers for Linux desktop adoption: the Adobe suite (or
alt) for professionals, and gaming for casual users. One of these is about to
be solved :)

[1] <http://elementaryos.org/>

~~~
josteink
This looks very interesting indeed. Initially it looks like a darkly themed
Gnome-desktop with a new launcher, but looking around it seems like this is
something different.

Unfortunately I cannot seem to find any details on the what's backing this
distro. Maybe that's the point and that you shouldn't have to care, but I'm
still curious.

Do you have any more details on what's actually running here?

~~~
DeepDuh
From the screenshot it looks like an OSX clone to the point. It seems like the
UI designer switched to 2d-dock, inverted the colors, replaced the apple with
an 'e' and called it a day.

Not that this is bad per se though.

Edit: They even pretty much copied the icons for browser, address book and
dictionary.

~~~
manamana
The browser icon has changed since: <http://elementaryos.org/journal/new-
midori-icon-elementary>

~~~
DeepDuh
Oh so instead copying Safari's logo they now copy Firefox?
[http://elementaryos.org/sites/default/files/user/5/midori.pn...](http://elementaryos.org/sites/default/files/user/5/midori.png)

Elementary might have something going on for them but originality is not it
apparently.

~~~
manamana
The new icon solves the problem of being yet another thing people will point
at and say they were just copying Apple. It might not be totally original, but
that's okay, everyone borrows from everyone, and I don't think they will get
any flak just because it somewhat resembles Firefox.

The problem arises when you can trace so many ideas back to a single source
that it makes it look like you're just making a cheap copy, which sadly is
what is happening with elementary.

------
dkhenry
Part of me is happy that there is a member of the Gnome community that is
speaking the language of business. The truth is for the longest time Linux
geeks have been speaking the parlance of technology. In this article I see
things like this.

""" a better ISV story """

""" Channel issues """

This is the first step towards actually making inroads. That right there is BS
and its the language of the corporate sales cycle. Linux will need advocates
who are fluent in the language of the corporation to make the partnerships and
sales deals that will be required to get Linux onto the corporate desktop. We
are not there yet where we can walk into a sales room and compete on a
corporate sales cycle with the professional sales guys who pitch solutions
based on Microsoft, but at that point that's the battle that needs to be
fought.

------
micro_cam
The biggest surprise for me from this years google io was how much I like and
use the chromebox. Chrome os is the best linux desktop distro I've used by
far. A fast, stripped down kernel and intuitive, minimal ui and seamless auto
updating.

It isn't cable of running a local dev server or compiling code, which are
things I still need from my computer (I'm hoping for a chrome os pro
supporting guest vms) but everything else is so easy I see the os gaining
serious ground and think it is silly to leave it out of a discussion of
desktop linux.

------
twelvechairs
Call me silly, but the series of blogposts that this is a continuation of seem
to have widely different definitions of "Desktop". One minute it seems to be
gnome and other "Desktop Systems", another minute linux in general. Be good to
have a little more clarity on just what they all seem so keen on achieving.

Persoinally, I'm not so sure Linux needs to aim to be used by everyone under
the sun... People have different needs and pluralism in operating systems
(yes, including MS) can be a good thing....

------
radley
I still think it's going to be Android PC that's the next big (Linux) desktop
OS. It has openness and it has the big support of Google.

Android is not suddenly going to be a desktop thing. It'll happen over time as
Android devices become more and more important than desktops. An Android PC
will serve to extend that Eco-system on the same level as iOS & OSX (but
better since it's still fun).

~~~
j_col
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with Google (a large corporation driven by
advertising profits) owning the desktop too.

> It has openness and it has the big support of Google.

Google did not open up Android 3.0 when it did not suit them to do so
(commercially). I've never heard of Redhat or Canonical doing something
similar with one of their Linux releases.

~~~
radley
If you saw 3.0 you know why - it was a giant fake hack which was not ready for
phones. Opening it up would have destroyed confidence in the platform.

I'm not entirely comfortable with Google either, but I'm far less comfortable
with Apple & M$.

------
exDM69
After using a desktop linux box for about 15 years, I have moved on. Not
because the desktop experience was bad, in fact I think it was one of the best
out there. Sure, there are rough edges but the user experience of regular
desktop activities (launching apps, browsing files) worked for me better than
redmond or cupertino -flavored desktops.

No, I moved on because I realized that I don't like the desktop paradigm. The
best thing I ever did to my computer was changing to tiling windowing and a
keyboard oriented user experience. It's definitely not for everyone, but I
don't miss the desktop.

~~~
sliverstorm
If you've still got a desk computer which runs linux, regardless the WM you've
still got a desktop linux box. "Linux on the desktop" doesn't use "desktop" in
the sense by which we refer to the place that contains "My Computer" and
"Recycle Bin". No, "desktop" refers to "on the top of your desk".

~~~
exDM69
> If you've still got a desk computer which runs linux, regardless the WM
> you've still got a desktop linux box.

Semantics. I prefer to call it a personal unix workstation :) I have a similar
software setup on my laptop, which you can't call a "desktop". We can call it
a portable unix workstation then.

~~~
hollerith
>I have a similar software setup on my laptop, which you can't call a
"desktop".

According to the standard terminology used by most writers in the computer
industry last 5 years, yes you can (when applied to software).

In contrast, if you say, "After using a desktop linux box for about 15 years,
I have moved on," most readers are going to be misled into concluding that
you've switched to OS X or Windows. (We only got what you actually meant
because we were paying sufficient attention and because you went on to talk of
tiling windowing and a keyboard oriented user experience, which are not really
an option on OS X and Windows.)

P.S. In all the discussion about tablet computer, _you really never noticed_
any of the thousands of authors using "desktop OS" to refer to the more-
traditional kind of OS that runs on both desktop computers and laptop
computers?

And you never noticed authors using "desktop" to distinguish a user-facing
computer from a server?

------
mahrain
Don't call the PEOPLE using your software "consumers", they're people.

~~~
steevdave
While I agree that people are people, they are also consumers. And he's
talking about the consumer market, not enthusiasts adding it to their own
systems so in this context it makes sense.

~~~
shmerl
It's degrading, because not only tech enthusiasts can use computers for
creative activity, becoming producers, rather than consumers.

------
elchief
We already have linux on the desktop. It's called OSX.

Seriously, I've been reading about dreams of linux on the desktop for 20
years. Give up. Move on.

~~~
vidarh
I use OS X a lot. But my home desktop has been Linux for the last 17 years,
and it will stay Linux for the foreseeable future. Maybe it will never see
mass adoption. Maybe it will. For my part it doesn't matter.

What matters to me is that there's nothing I have on my OS X laptop at work
that I miss when I use my Linux laptop at home, but I can't say the same in
reverse.

~~~
lloeki
In my (just as anecdotal) case, you can literally swap OSX and Linux:

I use Linux a lot. But my home laptop has been OSX for the last 6 years, and
it will stay OSX for the foreseeable future. Maybe it will never see mass
adoption. Maybe it will. For my part it doesn't matter. What matters to me is
that there's nothing I have on my Linux workstation that I miss when I use my
OSX laptop at home, but I can't say the same in reverse.

------
willholloway
Post points out very well how inferior products that charge can beat superior
products that are free. It's quite sad that Linux already has the best
experience if you care about getting things done.

In order to save the desktop we must kill the desktop.

Stop the madness and get on with life: apt-get install ratpoison

The desktop metaphor is the worst kind of skeuomorphic design. Why should I
waste precious screen real estate to show a background image?

The only thing tiling window managers need for better adoption is to ship with
better defaults and a reference card for keyboard shortcuts.

~~~
exDM69
> The only thing tiling window managers need for better adoption is to ship
> with better defaults and a reference card for keyboard shortcuts.

That works for hackers but for non-techies that aren't willing to put any time
and effort into re-learning the basics.

What I hope to see is more tiling windowing features on mainstream user
interfaces for the intermediate users.

~~~
willholloway
This is the direction Android will go in. I am pretty sure that in five years
most people will have one smart phone that they dock at home to have access to
large screens and keyboard/mouse. The laptop as we know it will be replaced by
laptop shells with a smart phone dock.

And those phones will run Linux with the Android UI and drivers.

I believe tiling window managers would be fantastic productivity boosters for
enterprise use. Less distractions for the worker bees.

~~~
ekianjo
> And those phones will run Linux with the Android UI and drivers.

You seem to assume Android is just another Linux distro with a different
windows manager? If so, you are mistaken. An Android system is very different
from a Linux distro - they basically only share the kernels and it is quite
wrong to classify Android as "Linux" because it creates confusion.

~~~
willholloway
The Linux kernel and Android kernel have already become one again, and I
suspect that the community will narrow the gap further.

Right now they mainly just share the kernel. If the GNU tool chain is included
and you can compile and run linux programs, what is the difference besides
some architectural changes?

~~~
ekianjo
> " If the GNU tool chain is included"

That's a very big "if". It is not the case currently so I would not put them
under the same umbrella.

