
India unveils $2.5B plan to electrify all households by end 2018 - bandrami
https://in.reuters.com/article/india-power/india-unveils-2-5-billion-plan-to-electrify-all-households-by-end-2018-idINKCN1C029S
======
farhanhubble
I live in Delhi and during peek summer time (April to June) 3-4 hour power
cuts are routine, sometimes due to load shedding and sometimes due to faults.
But that's not the horrible part since we have battery backup (known as
Inverters) that can provide power for 6-8 hours. The horrible part is that
during nighttime the voltage goes as low as 160 volts and the frequency drops
too, as a result most critical cooling devices like fridges and ACs don't
function at all. As more and more people in a locality install voltage
regulators or stabilizers, they draw large currents and trip the transformers,
sometimes dozens of times in an hour.

I've also spent several years in tier two cities, where 8-10 hour power cuts
are part of normal life and smaller towns where a failure can cause week-long
power cut. I know with surety that large parts of the National Capital Region
(NCR) have massive power cuts. Housing societies and businesses run large
diesel generators charging 3-4x the normal rate and causing immense pollution.

This is only half the story, the story of low power supply. Then there is
power theft. I don't have exact figures but when I used to go to the billing
office for paying our meager bill of a few hundred rupees, I saw pending bills
of hundred of thousands rupees. People hadn't paid their bills for decades.
Occasionally there would be raids and the defaulters' power would be
disconnected, then they would hook up to the power lines illegally for some
time and then get the connections back under some amnesty scheme.

It remains to be seen where the power to 'electrify' all households come from
and who'll actually foot the bill for the 'free' connections and the lifetime
free electricity.

~~~
PietdeVries
_More than 40 million households - about a quarter of all in the country - are
yet to be electrified and about 300 million of India’s 1.3 billion people are
still not hooked up to the grid._

Soo.... The article suggests that there are roughly 4x40 million = 160 million
households in the country, and 1.3 billion people. Divide the one by the other
and you get an estimate for the household size of roughly 10 people. That
seems rather larger to me, also given the fact that large IT cities like
Bangalore are growing like crazy - all with one or two people in an
appartment, not 10.

Next, getting 40 million households hooked up to the electricity network for
2.5 billion dollar. Dividing again gives 2500 dollar per 40 households or 60
dollar per house. While labor is cheap in India - this is not going to work.

And indeed: 40 million more housholds (or 300 million more Indians with access
to electricity) is not going to do the networks much good...

~~~
kungito
I would guess people who are part of IT sector are less than 1% of the
population and don't affect the statistic

~~~
itissid
How much employment is generated by all of IT? TCS is the largest employer
employing ‎385,809 people as said on the wiki. Assuming ALL of them are in
India. Assuming there are 10 TCS like IT companies, it gets you to 3.85
Million people employed. That's not even a dent in the # people affected by IT
living where ever.

------
thewhitetulip
It's highly ironic that the ruling party is now receding to the level of the
previous govt that they destroyed in the 2014 elections. The UPA also used to
offer free things to poor and used to do minority appeasement two years before
the elections.

The thing is, this govt came to power in all but 4 Indian states and it has
just destroyed the economy. The GDP rate has skid down to 4% just as the
previous PM, Dr Manmohan Singh said it would and at that time, everyone mocked
him.

Guess who is laughing now?

The current govt has failed absolutely at every way, the Demonetization
exercise was a total and epic disaster and it shocked the economy without
fulfilling it's motive of "war on black money" as 99% of the invalid notes
were returned to the RBI.

But that's not the only problem, the problem is, this govt takes decisions
just to win elections. DeMo happened just before UP elections after the
"surgical strike" lost it's glitter in the media.

Even the most ardent supporters of the current govt are asking the question,
if the earlier govt was able to keep the GDP growth rate above 7 in horrible
world economic condition, why is the current govt unable to do so even when
the crude oil prices are half of what it was earlier?

~~~
vthallam
>The GDP rate has skid down to 4% just as the previous PM, Dr Manmohan Singh
said it would and at that time, everyone mocked him.

The GDP growth rate has been low from 2012 to 2014[1]. And anything a former
prime minister tells about the opposition party, I would take with a pinch of
salt.

Also, the power ministry has done a great job over the last few years. They
distributed LED bulbs across the country which reduced power consumption
[http://www.ujala.gov.in/](http://www.ujala.gov.in/)

They might have made mistakes, but I would choose this govt over the corrupt
congress any day.

1:[http://statisticstimes.com/economy/gdp-growth-of-
india.php](http://statisticstimes.com/economy/gdp-growth-of-india.php)

~~~
kamaal
>>And anything a former prime minister tells about the opposition party, I
would take with a pinch of salt.

A former prime minister who was a distinguished professor of economics at top
universities. Has served at the seats of world's top financial institutions
and councils. And led the leadership in multiple tenures of Indias central
bank. Plus being the finance minister and responsible for drafting and
implementing Indias most succesful open market policy ever. This is all mildly
putting his career highlights.

How quickly we forget the whole concept of expertise.

These days you go and see experts even in case of a throat itch. Here, we are
talking of redoing the entire country's monetary system.

~~~
pkhagah
Issue bigger then demonetization is NPA. Banks need appx. $50 billion USD to
comply with the new norms. These huge NPA's are given in UPA2 term. Your
beloved Manmohan Singh didn't utter a word against this. When the banks are
looted systematically.

~~~
kamaal
Finance minister and the PM himself said that they did DeMo to demonstrate
their heroics in killing black money.

Should I believe them or you.

------
sifar
There is a difference in providing an "electric connection" to each household
and providing electricity to the household.I live in a relatively well-off
locality and don't have electricity for at least 30 days/year. During
monsoons, have to go without electricity for 48 hrs even.

Providing off-grid solar electricity to remote locations is the right way to
go. But that is only part of the equation, one has to ensure regular
maintenance and battery replacement, especially since these areas will have
adverse conditions. It is like the swachh bharat mission, toilets were built
for sanitation in villages but they were useless since they didn't have water.
Sadly no one gives a thought to this in India, things are built and are
useless or they wither in short time due to lack of maintenance.

This is another propaganda BS by the government. BJP will have to upgrade
their techniques, otherwise the mountain of propaganda that they have built
will cave in on themselves.

~~~
ahamedirshad123
>BJP will have to upgrade their techniques, otherwise the mountain of
propaganda that they have built will cave in on themselves.

It has already started.

------
snowwindwaves
Utility scale solar makes sense since they usually build it in sunny places,
solar panels on your house are great if they will pay themselves off (you live
in a sunny place with expensive electricity you get to avoid buying or you get
a subsidy) but I think residential battery systems are not currently sensible
if you have a grid connection. If the purpose of the battery is for when the
power goes out just get a little gas or diesel powered generator.

The article notes the perfect application of solar plus battery; places with
no utility connection and the only initial loads will be LED lights and the
users will not be accustomed to toasters, air conditioning, etc

"The pledge to provide power could face challenges as it remains difficult to
provide electricity in remote towns and villages. The government said it would
distribute solar power packs with a battery bank to un-electrified households
in such areas."

~~~
l1feh4ck
I think the primary concern here is to first provide electricity to the
quarter of the population who are not connected to the grid.

The population who are not having electricity in India is either because they
live in a remote place where there is no connection or they are too poor to
afford electricity. So what they need now is electricity, so their children
can study in a better lit room.

Air conditioners and toasters are still considered a luxury by a majority of
the population.

If executed properly, I think this initiative will really make a change.

~~~
stevenwoo
This article from last week argues that a swamp cooler might be adequate and
actually necessary in large parts of India as average temperatures rise,
humidity allowing. [https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/14/16290934/india-air-
condit...](https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/14/16290934/india-air-conditioner-
cooler-design-climate-change-cept-symphony)

~~~
l1feh4ck
The climate change is real and every room in the city is having at least one
cooler. The village, on the other hand, has a more natural way of doing
things.

[http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/17/38687611...](http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/17/386876116/whats-
it-like-to-live-without-electricity-ask-an-indian-villager)

------
MrsPeaches
The biggest issue I experienced in India was that there are a lot of
government schemes aimed at the rural poor and yet the people at whom the
schemes are aimed often struggle to access them. One such scheme I personally
saw people struggle to access was NREGA[1].

A social workers job in India is pretty much just going around and helping
people fill out the correct forms. In many rural area there are people who sit
outside of banks who's soul job is to fill out forms for those who cannot read
or write.

One of the big challenges will just be telling people that they have access to
such a scheme and helping them fill out the correct forms to access it.

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rural_Employment_Guar...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rural_Employment_Guarantee_Act,_2005#The_law_in_action)

------
vthallam
It's kinda weird that people here focus on how there are power cuts for
existing users, how this govt wants to give away free things etc.

All this move guarantees is that the people who never officially had a power
connection get one. This might well be a marketing scheme, but as long as they
deliver, we are good. It's kinda ridiculous that a Prime Minister i 2017 have
to make a plan to get everyone power. How difficult was this for the previous
govt?

~~~
thro1237
This is just a renaming of Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Gram Jyothi yojana launched by
the same government in 2015, which itself was a renaming of Rajiv Gandhi
Grameen Vidyutikaran Yojana (RGGVY) launched by the previous government. Yes,
one can rename one's own scheme and get another round of press coverage.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_Dayal_Upadhyaya_Gram_Jyot...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deen_Dayal_Upadhyaya_Gram_Jyoti_Yojana)

------
mitul_45
I don't know how but somehow power cut hasn't been a thing in my hometown -
Ahmedabad, Gujarat. Maybe privatization has helped.

Torrent Power has completed its acquisition of the Ahmedabad Electricity
Company in 1997 [1]. And since then there hasn't been single power cut longer
than 15 minutes which I can remember. Same goes for Surat now.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrent_Power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrent_Power).

------
taherchhabra
Because elections are coming in 2019 and $2.5B is lesser than the marketing
budget of the ruling party

------
ppurka
I guess the promise is (also practically possible) to have electrical
_connection_ to all households. It's a different question whether there will
be, or can be, steady electricity supply, given how the electricity
distribution is currently managed.

Regarding providing free electricity - this can be a good thing as long as the
electricity consumption is free up to an amount limited by the size of the
house and household. This is very susceptible to abuse.

------
abhi3
October last year: “Piyush Goyal assures electricity for all by May 2017”

[http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/piyush-goyal-
assu...](http://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/piyush-goyal-assures-
electricity-for-all-by-may-2017/411440/)

September 2017: Government announces grand new scheme to ensure electricity
for all by 2018!!

Talk about shifting goal posts.

------
anuraj
Nothing New - This programme was originally called RAJIV GANDHI GRAMEEN
VIDYUTIKARAN YOJANA (RGGVY) (2004-2017) to electrify all villages. During this
period only Kerala achieved 100% electrification to all households. This is
old wine in new bottle. More window dressing for a country that is facing
unprecedented economic slowdown and job losses.

------
ForFreedom
The question is will the govt have money for all these projects?

The bullet train which is a loan from Japan for 50 years at 0.1% additionally
permitting Japan in on Indians infra development.

------
nebula
A good analysis of the plan and what it takes to implement it successfully:
[https://swarajyamag.com/infrastructure/before-those-bulbs-
ar...](https://swarajyamag.com/infrastructure/before-those-bulbs-are-switched-
on-what-it-will-take-to-make-saubhagya-a-success)

------
jacquesm
The most sketchy back of the envelope calculations would indicate that the
2.5B is off by at least an order of magnitude. In other words, this is a nice
press release but it won work for that money and it definitely will not work
within the next 15 months. But it sure looks good in theory.

------
ahamedirshad123
And Don't forget this

[http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/On-paper-
electrified-v...](http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/On-paper-electrified-
villages-%E2%80%94-in-reality-darkness/article14176223.ece)

------
t1o5
An exception in India, a small state called Kerala which has achieved 100%
electrification recently. This do not mean there are power outages and voltage
problems. This is among many other socio economic achievements which makes it
stands out when compared to other states in India. It has achieved these feats
through a model of development which is now called "Kerala model".

Kerala model:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala_model)

[http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/kerala-is-
now-t...](http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/kerala-is-now-totally-
electrified/article18618774.ece)

About Kerala:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala)

------
pankajdoharey
$2.5 Billion for that many houses seem too low. I think the budget may have to
be increased. In any case we would know this by 2018 anyway.

------
mezuzi
Is it a plan or just some Modi propaganda?! 1.3, this is not Slovenia or
Cameroon, it's a 1.3 billion population.

------
m3kw9
Most times I wouldn’t believe, but they proved they could do it from the
success so far with the toilet project

------
pkaye
Is $2.5B enough to do all that?

~~~
madmax108
Yes $2.5B is enough for multiple waves of nationwide ad campaigns promoting
the government's decision to electrify the whole country (which BTW has been
part of every manifesto, directly or indirectly, for the past 15 years).

Sadly, the ruling government is more of a self-marketing machine than a
provider for growth, economically or otherwise. On the ground changes are few
and far in between. The focus is more on providing positive spins on
disastrous decisions and a society degenerating to medieval levels in some
parts of the country (diseases that are exterminated in most of the world,
extreme poverty, agriculture purely dependent on monsoons which are themselves
flaky, religious atrocities).

As long as the 2019 elections are won (which is the only thing that matters)
the ruling government will feel the $2.5B spent is worthwhile even if a single
house does not get electricity (and then expect a positive spin saying we have
the electrical capacity, and what we promised was to prove that we have the
capacity, not actually provide everyone electricity)

(Sadly, even HN has it's set of right wing trolls, so expecting some pro-Modi
comments, or more whataboutery on this comment as well!)

Edit: And here we go with the shifting goalposts again:
[https://twitter.com/AisiTaisiDemo/status/912542412882374657](https://twitter.com/AisiTaisiDemo/status/912542412882374657)

~~~
balladeer
> Yes $2.5B is enough for multiple waves of nationwide ad campaigns

This is accurate. I am not talking about the figure. I think more money would
be required for the ad campaigns and few "pilot" projects or releases for the
follow up ad campaigns.

I am talking about madmax108 being accurate in stating the sole intention of
the Govt and how things have been done here before this Govt and how this Govt
has acted in last 3 years and how they are indicating they will act.

------
ahamedirshad123
More cess then.

------
api
In America that would be the cost of one gas turbine.

~~~
CHsurfer
Actually, you can get about four single shaft combined cycle plants with a
fairly large class GT. $2.5b seems rediculousely small for the task at hand,
assuming that they will want to have power flowing to all of those newly
connected households.

~~~
arsalanb
When you have engineers working for roughly 1/10th the salary, that's what you
get.

~~~
th1nkdifferent
Of course. Because the salary is the major cost?

