
Why I hate the weekends (2017) - rajeshmr
https://www.cdahmedeh.net/blog/2017/4/15/why-i-hate-the-weekends
======
gnulinux
This resonates with me. I love my work, I really like what I do, I think it's
mentally challenging, interesting, and important for our world and
civilization and I believe I'm compensated well enough. But it's tiring ok?
And all I can ever do on weekends is lying on my bed watching netflix. I work
9 to 6 and work out intensely for 2 hours every week day. By the time it's
saturday I'm both physically and mentally exhaust. I cannot do anything other
than sleeping. Of course this is not a good situation for various reasons: no
friends, no relationships, no hobbies. Just work, gym, and recovering from
those two. I like this for a lot of reasons (which is why I do it) but I
acknowledge that my life is also pathetic. I wouldn't be surprised if I died
alone.

~~~
seibelj
You should definitely see a therapist, you sound clinically depressed. Laying
in bed all weekend is not healthy. Making friends and having lasting
relationships takes effort but is a requirement to have a happy and fulfilling
life (excluding total hermits who are perfectly happy ignoring family,
friends, and social contact, and some of those people do exist on HN and will
argue with this comment).

You have a career, now it's time to have a life. You owe it to yourself.

~~~
rofo1
"Requirement" is too strong a word. We've all read the Harvard 75 years old
study [0] probably here, cause it was posted couple of times on HN, but I for
one side with Chamfort: "Happiness is very difficult to find in yourself, but
impossible to find someplace else"

I've felt this way all my life, even before I read Chamfort. I always valued
quality relationships with people, not just any relationship with anyone. To
me, being alone is much better than being in the wrong company.

It's very hard to find good, well-mannered people with moral integrity. At
least it is for me. And based on everything I see around me, those people are
just rare. Most people tolerate each other, instead of actively wanting to be
friends/whatever with each other. I don't fully understand why that is. But is
just is. I'm curious to see other's thoughts on this subject, though.

[0] - [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-
life/wp/2016/03...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-
life/wp/2016/03/02/harvard-researchers-discovered-the-one-thing-everyone-
needs-for-happier-healthier-lives)

~~~
pezo1919
"It's very hard to find good, well-mannered people with moral integrity. At
least it is for me. And based on everything I see around me, those people are
just rare. Most people tolerate each other, instead of actively wanting to be
friends/whatever with each other. I don't fully understand why that is. But is
just is. I'm curious to see other's thoughts on this subject, though."

So much of this, I feel that 100%. And people who are like-minded to me feel
the same. I think I have 6-7 people/friends like that, it took me time to find
them, and I said many times no to "regular ok" people who are not ok to me.
Additionally (don't take it too seriously) people who say they don't like
people in general (like me :D ) are the ones who I like and who "do have a
bar" at all.

To me it seems like most people are not in "real friendships " just
accidentally sharing similar background in a space and time so they benefit
some of the pros of having a "regular" relationship (eg. friendship).

~~~
rofo1
> "Additionally (don't take it too seriously) people who say they don't like
> people in general (like me :D ) are the ones who I like and who "do have a
> bar" at all."

Chamfort, again, put it more eloquently than I can: "If you aren't misanthrope
by age 40, you never liked the world anyway"

I guess the initial shock for me was that people _know_ what they are doing
and what kind of harm/pain they are causing, and at every step of the way they
_choose_ to do it. I've seen this all around me and I've experienced some of
it myself and I just don't understand why is it so. There really isn't a need
for it, people _like_ and _choose_ to do it. That's kinda scary to me.

Once you start thinking about this subject, you will inevitably realize the
same, as a plethora of philosophers did earlier and since always, basically.

The only people content with the situation seem those that never started
thinking about it anyway. Ignorance is a bliss? :)

------
darkmighty
What I don't understand here: Why can't we just _work less_?

I know it's not trivial, but it can't be impossible either. I doubt he would
starve if he got a part-time dev job (are those easy to find? I have no idea).
I agree wholeheartedly with all that he said. I think a life of work-home-work
without breathing is almost meaningless unless you can have possibly
unreasonable amounts of fun and freedom in the job (few if any industries
allow/demand this kind of work). Indeed if a job allows for fun and freedom
markets will usually exploit this advantage to try and push you to work even
more ( _if you let them_ of course).

I'm still a student but I'll certainly look for a job that's either totally
fulfilling (rare) or allows as much freedom as possible while maintaining a
reasonable lifestyle and quality of life.

~~~
Synaesthesia
The biggest reason is because bosses don’t want us to. They want to make as
much money as possible, and that’s about it really. The good news is we have
made progress, through mass action, people have won the right to weekends,
fewer hours and other rights. The final battle is one to win control of the
workplace itself, a self-managed and owned workplace.

~~~
thatfrenchguy
In tech in SV, so many stupid things happen because people work too much.
Self-organizing is a challenge as well though.

~~~
toomuchtodo
So let’s legislate a four day work week. The productivity gains to justify it
already exist, they’ve existed for decades.

~~~
ajmurmann
I wonder if that would have to happen globally. We are still competing with
companies in other countries. Chinese startups subscribe to the 996 schedule
(9am-9pm, 6 days/week). I'm not sure if 954 allows us to compete.

~~~
squeaky-clean
Why not? We're currently competing with 955.

~~~
kngzhi
I'm pretty astonishing about that movement happening in the West(or USA
only?). Because, by contrast, in China, 996 is the current trend in tech
companies.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
> Because, by contrast, in China, 996 is the current trend in tech companies.

Only very poorly run ones with crappy per-hour productivity.

------
nathan_f77
Some possible solutions:

1) Ask for a 30 hour work week, or find a company that can offer this. Your
salary should still be high enough to aim for a comfortable retirement at 65.

2) Adopt a more frugal lifestyle and increase your savings rate.

You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment
income. It should be very possible to do this with a backend developer's
salary over a period of 10-15 years, and then you should be able to retire in
your 30s or 40s. You should also aim to increase your salary by changing jobs
every few years (or get a job at a FAANG.)

3) Build side projects or a startup and try to get some passive income (or an
exit)

Write all your startup ideas down and keep looking for opportunities. It can
be hard to build products in the evenings or weekends, especially if you're
already burnt out from your normal job. So this option works best when
combined with part-time freelance work:

4) Become a freelancer and work part-time while you work on your own projects

Bonus: Move to a place with a very low cost of living.

Working 10-20 hours per week gives you a lot of free time and much longer
weekends. But it also gives you a lot of time and energy to work on your own
ideas.

Note that working 10 hours per week is a terrible idea if you just spend the
rest of your time working on hobbies that don't make any money. If you do
that, then you won't even be able to retire at 65, and you probably won't be
able to save money for emergencies. Only do this if you spend the rest of your
time trying to build a business.

If you can't get anything to work after ~10 years of trying, then you should
still have plenty of time to go back to a full-time job and save for
retirement.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
> You need to save a few million dollars to retire with $40-$80k in investment
> income.

You need a lot less than a few million dollars if you're willing to live at a
more reasonable retirement income. I mean, you won't have to commute anymore,
or buy all those services that did things you never had time for, or pay for
daycare, or live in an overpriced city, etc. Hell if you move to a country
with a lower cost of living, as you suggested, you'll need even less.

You would be surprised how little of what you consider "necessities" of your
lifestyle you actually need, or miss when they are gone.

~~~
nathan_f77
A conservative "safe withdrawal rate" is about 3.5%, so you need around $1.1M
invested in index funds in order to have $40k income per year.

I'm living in Thailand, and $40k goes a long way. Many people would be happy
with this lifestyle, but it's not quite enough for me, and I wouldn't want to
spend the rest of my life here. I'd much rather have $80-100k and live
somewhere like Toronto. But to each their own.

~~~
photoguy112
I'm in Japan. Last year I remitted $16k. My residence is paid for and I spent
an additional $12k cash. In total, I live on 28k / year. Add in a residence if
I had to rent, down where I am it's $500/mo for a 3 br "home". It's really a
shanty by western standards but enough for me. On 34k if you rented, one can
live comfortably in Southern Japan. Of course, this is not possible without a
valid visa. I have lived in Midwest, California, Washington and visited most
of US. I would still choose to live here than anywhere else. I think most
Americans who have not done enough travel do not seriously consider living
outside of their country (if they had the chance) just due to a mindset that
America is the best place to be (hint: it's not).

~~~
rbatty
But you said it yourself: you need a visa. It's not simply a question of
whether an American or anyone else finds it satisfying to live in another
country. The government has to want/permit you to be there. And in the case of
Japan in particular, that's a difficult situation to navigate, especially if
you are looking for a place to live for your retirement years.

------
wilkystyle
> _I feel like my whole life is centered around work. Even though I work a
> (what is considered) reasonable 40-hour work-week, I feel like too much of
> time is taken away from me. Not only is it actually being in the office but
> commuting too. My morning are devoted to getting ready for work: dressing
> up, packing up a lunch and so on._

As someone who also works a reasonable 40-hour a week job, I cannot emphasize
enough how much of a difference working remote has made.

I used to commute an hour each direction in the DC area, and (like the author)
spent time preparing meals, getting dressed, etc. I have since moved to the NC
area to work remote, and quality of life improvement is incredible:

\- I can get to work immediately with no commute, and when I'm done, I don't
have to get in a car to get home.

\- Lunch break involves making a healthy lunch in my own kitchen, then reading
a book while I eat in the comfort of my own home.

\- I am a coffee enthusiast, and I love being able to make a french press,
pour-over, or cold brew right in my kitchen.

\- Crappy weather and accidents on the roads no longer have any effect on my
workday.

\- I get the exact office setup I want.

\- I can go work at a coffee shop, an outdoor park, or even at the beach (all
of which I have done), if I want a change of scenery.

WRT to the central point: I hate the _concept_ of living for the weekend, and
have taken intentional and proactive steps to ensure that I don't fall into
that trap.

Just a few examples:

\- Get up early, and make time for what matters. I like to work out in the
mornings, and also make sure to do any hobbies or side projects during this
time, as my brain is fresh.

\- Make yourself stop working at the appropriate time. This will differ
depending on your job and your personal preference, but I draw a line in the
sand and do not let myself work any later than 6 PM. My personal time is very
important to me, and even though I love my job, I will never choose it over my
personal time.

\- Make sure to do things you like during the week, too. This really just
involves not allowing yourself to believe that you can only make time for
yourself on the weekends. Sometimes I'll get up early and meet someone for
breakfast at a restaurant, sometimes I'll do a fun hobby in the evening, like
rock climbing. If your job is flexible enough you could even step away for a
quick break during the day to do something outside, like bicycling or
kayaking, if that's your thing.

edit: Formatting

~~~
nickjj
I've been working remotely my whole life (freelance developer).

It's interesting how jaded I am of driving in general. There are certain
intersections in my town where it's common to get stuck at a red light that
lasts for minutes. Things like this put me on complete life tilt. All I think
about is "how can anyone put up with this every day?". I'm no longer surprised
why people go berserk out of no where.

I really don't know how people do it. Getting stuck in traffic or waiting on
long red lights sucks the life out of you because it's such an utter waste of
time. Maybe I'm just not used to it (I drive, but it's usually outside of rush
hour), but man, I am pretty sure I couldn't exist in a world where I had to do
the traffic grind daily.

~~~
sonnyblarney
Yes - once you have full control of your time things like traffic and lineups
drive you bonkers.

Honestly, one would think that 'less stress' and a more peaceable mindset give
one more resilience in dealing with such things, but just the opposite.

To deal with traffic you almost have to 'give up' on the notion of doing
something quickly and resign to the reality of it, which is what happens if
you have to deal with it daily.

When working from home I avoid doing absolutely anything during rush hour.

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
_To deal with traffic you almost have to 'give up' on the notion of doing
something quickly and resign to the reality of it, which is what happens if
you have to deal with it daily._

That's the only way to treat driving IMO. If you let yourself get upset at
'delays', you will drive rashly to make up for it, and eventually you will
cause an accident.

Every time you get in a car you should expect delays, and expect dangerous
driving from others.

------
symmitchry
I used to work a 4-day week (a true 32-hour week, not 4 x 10 or something) and
it was the greatest thing I've ever done. All the "weekend stuff" you can do
on your extra day, and get two full days off. I can't believe how great it
was.

~~~
Narushia
Though I’m young and have little work experience, I’ve already started to
think that a ~30-hour work week would be optimal for the rest of my life. My
current work place is very flexible in work hours and days, so I decided to do
6-hour days. I think it leaves me enough time to get daily activities &
hobbies done and relax.

I really enjoy my work. However, I still occasionally think to myself “man,
this kinda sucks”. I think it’s because I feel the need to put my productivity
in something original, something that is born from my personal passion only.

After I graduated from college, I actually kept a year-long “break” and just
stayed at home. On this “break”, I set up daily tasks for myself to see what I
could accomplish on my own. I did creative, productive stuff from 5 to 7 hours
a day. I was learning Spanish. Programming. Piano. All on my own. It was a
really awesome year. The problem in the long run, of course, is that I don’t
get any money from those. It was only possible because I was still living with
my parents. I would really like to do all of those activities as often as I
could back then, but it’s just not possible now with a job.

I hope to soon have a solution for this: a business. Currently I’m slowly
working on a software project on my free time, with the aim of it eventually
creating a solid income, with a relatively small need of maintenance. Not
overly confident that it’ll work out, but I’ll do my best to be able to do the
stuff I want, as long as I want, while also being able to live comfortably.
That’s the dream.

~~~
camwiese
I'm in a similar state of mind. Would love to hear about what you're working
on!

~~~
Narushia
I’m afraid I can’t go to very specific details on what it’s about, but it’s a
web service. In my country, there’s only one firm offering the same kind of
service and they make a lot of money out of it. I think there is room for
competition; I’m going to offer an equal-or-higher quality service with
cheaper pricing.

------
dorkwood
I’ve tried to think of a way out of this, but so far none of my ideas are very
good.

1) Use my spare time to study a more lucrative field, and negotiate a four-day
work week. The pitfall here is that I need to spend all of my spare time
working, so that I may be able to work less in the future (and it’s not
guaranteed that I will).

2) Move to a country where the cost of living is cheap, and freelance with
international clients. The pitfall here is that I have to move away from all
the people I care about. I may also end up introducing more stress into my
life by living as a foreigner and relying on a freelance income.

3) Invest all of my time into starting my own business (for pitfalls, see 1).

4) Negotiate a four-day work week on my current wage, live a much more ascetic
lifestyle, and only save a small amount of money for my future.

5) Marry into a wealthy family.

6) Find a duffel bag with a few million dollars in it.

Does anyone have any better ideas?

~~~
bloomca
> Use my spare time to study a more lucrative field

assuming you are in software development field, it is tricky to get into a
more lucrative one, probably easier to just stay here.

> Move to a country where the cost of living is cheap, and freelance with
> international clients

Not long-term sustainable. Might work for couple years (especially if you are
single and have perfect health), but after a lot of problem will show up –
relatives, friends, connections, etc. Also, you might want your own home.

Overall, you listed it. Other ideas are:

1\. embrace it. Be consistent in your hobbies, and dedicate one day to it
(like Saturday). It is tough for new hobbies, but if you are already in it,
might be just fine. Not everybody has to produce something artsy and from
their passion – your family, what you like might be enough. Try to reflect on
it sometime, it might clear some things for you.

2\. Retire early. If you live more frugally (or not so posh, depending on your
preferences), you can easily save plenty of money, which will allow you to
retire not in 65, but around ~45 (number depends heavily, but you got the
idea).

3\. Aggressively negotiate vacation days, and take off 1–2 days at the
end/beginning of the week. You'll work much less (you'll notice it), and
taking 2 days off reduces 2 weeks into 4 days work week.

------
city41
To add insult to injury I find doing things on the weekend often a chore
because everything is so crowded. Around here finding a parking place at the
mall, movie theaters, etc is very difficult. There's a beautiful state park
that my wife and I love. But to go there on the weekend you gotta arrive
either at 6am or 6pm. The parking lot fills up solid, complete with people
lurking in their cars waiting for someone to leave. Want to get out of town?
Be prepared to sit in lots of traffic. I sometimes seriously wonder if living
in such a crowded part of the country is worth it.

~~~
colmvp
I had to take a blood test today. Normally if I go my local clinic the wait
time is 15 minutes. But because I went on a Saturday the wait was 1-2 hours!!

------
rootusrootus
My technique is to remember where the job ranks in my "give a shit about" list
and it's not as high as you might assume. I am not irreplaceable, and either
is my job. So I try to give a good value for the work I'm paid to do, but at
the end of the workday I flip the switch, as it were, and my life is my own. I
am militant about not letting my job control me. I am polite but firm with
coworkers and managers, and they respect my off-hours time, and I respect
theirs. We all have families so that probably helps.

------
mavhc
We moved from a 7 day working week to a 6 day working week about 2000 years
ago, and to 5 days about 100 years ago, it's time to move to 4 days. In
addition the 5th day should be used for lifelong education, people should be
expected to learn about all the new things that have been invented since they
left school, or refresh what they're not good at.

~~~
eeZah7Ux
In many rural societies work and leisure were constantly intermixed. An
craftsman/shopkeeper/farmer could spend 110 hours a week on the workplace
while doing 20 hours of active work.

~~~
therealdrag0
I think this is a good point and shows how there is more depth and complexity
to the conversation. I find that my work isn't as draining as it could be, but
part of that is I often spend over an hour a day chit-chatting with coworkers
at work. If it's not all meetings-go-go-build-go-go, then work can be quite
pleasant, while still being productive.

And given the problem of loneliness that is arising, it might be less smart to
reduce the work week (giving people more time to be alone), than to just make
work less intense and forgiving. I.e, I suspect 5 _6.5h is better than 4_ 8h.

------
jondubois
Today I just wasted the second half of the day doing nothing at all; just
watching mind-numbing videos on Youtube.

I had been working on a side project most weekends for the last 10 years and
been particularly busy in the last year so I forgot what it felt like to just
waste time. Wasting time feels great.

In this cut-throat competitive industry, it does feel like a luxury through.

As a software engineer, I can't afford to not be on the cutting edge. I have
the feeling that if I stopped working for just 6 months, my career would be
over.

~~~
throwaway875u58
Just as a counter-point: I took off 3 years to stay home with kids.

I recently started a new position after very little time looking with a >80k
raise.

I've felt the same pressure to stay current. But, turns out it's all about how
you can frame what you bring to the table vs what you can't.

~~~
james_s_tayler
More and more I think this is true. But with a huge caveat that you actually
have to be able to bring something to the table and know well what it is.

------
throwaway713
The "no free time" issue for me is not due to work; it's due to being married
— which is a choice I made knowing that I would lose a lot of "me" time. Every
so often my wife visits family on the opposite coast for a week or two and
suddenly it feels like bucketloads of time have appeared out of nowhere. I
imagine once I have children (which I hope to have in the next few years), I
will feel even more pressed for time, but I accept that this is just the
nature of that decision.

Everything is really about trade-offs, but I think if you are single, a 40
hour work week is probably not enough to make you feel like you are on a
hedonic treadmill. I'm currently working at my dream company, but over the
next few years, my goal is to reach financial independence as quickly as
possible via some side project. 95% of startups fail, but at least in the
valley, most of these startups are VC funded and have big ambitions. I'd say
if your goal is to simply reach $2-3 million for financial independence, the
failure rate is a bit lower for some small project that fills a niche market
need.

~~~
photoguy112
We had a kid last year. My time went from some availability to NONE. Granted,
we don't have a babysitter, both myself and wife stay at home (I work from
home, she doesn't work). Despite both of us being available, just the daily
chores and things that must be done with a little one are insane. Ours could
be a unique case because my kid is kinda difficult, but it's definitely a huge
change from not having kids. That being said I think anyone who recently had a
kid and works from home can attest to forming new abilities to manage time
super effectively. Before I would waste a lot of time on non-important things,
now I know what my priorities are and get things done really fast. I am a lot
more focused because of this.

~~~
moises_silva
And if you have a second kid your availability will go from NONE to negative
balance. I remember when I had just one, suddenly now it feels like I had so
much time then!

~~~
photoguy112
Haha, I am not looking to find out but I'm sure it'll happen soon enough. Oh
god.. just thinking about the exhaustion that comes with that, maybe I'll run
off into the desert.

------
colemickens
Ah, someone wrote down some of the reasons I'm terrified to go back into tech.
Not because it's unavoidable to be sucked into working a 60 hour week for a
soulless company that doesn't care other than to use you as cheaply as
possible... but because I am afraid I will let it happen to myself again.

You know the phrase, "working for the weekend"? From the actual hours in
office, piled up non-work responsibilities, _constant_ stress from the job...
I was working _all_ of the time for... for what, retirement? That's a
horrifying thing to think through end-to-end, especially when you step back
from your job for a while to realize, in most cases, for most people, _it 's
just a job_.

American culture is masochistically obsessed with attaching human value and
worth to "work ethic" or "career success". It's a nice distraction (probably
not on accident), but I'm fairly there's more to life and I glad it didn't
take 30 straight years working to figure that out. And now I guess I'm
repeating it here to try and solidify it for myself.

------
losvedir
Huh, for what it's worth, this doesn't resonate with me at all. I appreciate
the author sharing how they feel but really don't like the "we"s and "our"s,
since they're not expressing some universal truth.

~~~
da_chicken
When I was younger, it didn't resonate at all (I've obviously heard this
complaint before). The older I've gotten, the shorter everything has gotten.
Whether it's based in the natural warping of time perception as we age, or
stress from greater responsibilities pushing me towards burnout, my weekends
go too quickly and my work weeks take too much time.

~~~
rzzzt
I find that the work week flies by very quickly as well. I get less done than
I used to/wanted to.

------
coldtea
> _Our lives are high maintenance. We need to maintain our relationships with
> our spouses, friends and family. We need to take care of ourselves with
> exercise, hygiene and so on. Our houses need to be kept clean and our fridge
> full of food. And to be able to do all that, we need work to make a wage so
> we can pay for what keeps us alive._

Nothing that a short stint in the developing world doing a non-desk job for a
month or so can't help put perspective on...

~~~
throwaway875u58
Just because there are kids starving in Africa doesn't make me any less
hungrier.

~~~
coldtea
I'd say it does.

[https://youtu.be/YYfajPXdvSM?t=67](https://youtu.be/YYfajPXdvSM?t=67)

------
quickthrower2
I find the typical work in developer jobs very fatiguing. It involves reading
through loads of old code that other people have written over the years,
trying to figure out how it all hangs together and where I inject my change
in. For some reason that does my head in.

Greenfield work is a lot less tiring, but much more rare in my experience.
It's also a career path of it's own and hard to get on. I.e. you need
greenfield experience to get a coveted greenfield job role.

I am considering getting into tutoring/teaching programming and I might find
that a lot less tiring, covering the basics X times rather than wrangling the
spaghetti code day in and day out.

~~~
hacker_9
_" One mans greenfield project is in a year, another's old code"_ \- proverb
66

------
AznHisoka
Once you have kids, you cherish Mondays and weekdays _much_ more..

~~~
daxfohl
[https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2017/0...](https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2017/02/parenting-comics-89-58a431c0d84d4__700.jpg)

------
itamarst
As others mention here and there in the comments: you can get a 3-day weekend
at many tech jobs. It's just a matter of asking, and asking in the right way.

E.g. this guy I interviewed has been working 4 days a week for 15 years:
[https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-
programmer...](https://codewithoutrules.com/2018/01/08/part-time-programmer/)

I've personally not worked 40 hour weeks since 2012, because, too much stuff
to do, especially with a family.

If you don't have negotiation experience, well, I started out a terrible
negotiator and eventually figured out how, so you can too. And if you'd like
to skip over all the mistakes and research I did and just know what it takes
to negotiate a shorter workweek as a programmer, I've written a book that can
help you:
[https://codewithoutrules.com/3dayweekend/](https://codewithoutrules.com/3dayweekend/)

------
vricius
Rather than have a job, become financially independent. Work to make money,
when you have acquired enough money, take a break. Even if you have to work
non-stop to get to "enough to take a break", it's MUCH LESS stressful than
being on someone else's clock. I look forward to Mondays, that's what happens
when you become your own boss. [https://boldanddetermined.com/t-g-i-m-thank-
god-its-monday/](https://boldanddetermined.com/t-g-i-m-thank-god-its-monday/)

~~~
photoguy112
I can attest to this. Being on your own clock is still stressful in some ways,
but compared to a standard work week - not even close.

------
hhw3h
If the OP's post resonates with you and you are a software engineer, consider
hiring a part-time personal / virtual assistant.

I haven't heard of software engineers in VC startup land or corporate world
hiring personal assistants but in the freelance / consulting world it's very
common and an amazing way to "level up" yourself as a professional. It's ok to
need help and it's ok to hire someone who enjoys helping with personal or
professional admin tasks.

You can start out with a virtual assistant for a few hundred bucks a month and
can find one on Craigslist or a branded service like Zirtual.

I have a VA help with routine marketing / admin tasks in my business and then
impromptu one-off personal tasks like booking flights, hiring task rabbits,
booking doctors' appointments, etc.

I know not everyone is in a place to afford this but I think most engineers
are if they are thoughtful about their finances. I'd highly recommend trying
it out.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
This is such an SV answer. Have a problem with work related stresses? Don't
consider changing your relationship with work, take advantage of our new
Personal Assistant as a Service platform!

~~~
photoguy112
It makes total sense. If your time is worth way more than theirs (in terms of
pay), why not outsource as much of your daily boring, time-consuming work to
someone else?

------
opportune
We're definitely ready for a 4 day week. It might be the best way to reduce
inequality within wage-earners too when you consider how many people are
underemployed or are part-time workers who want to work full time - those
people stand to massively benefit.

However I do think the author is making it sound harder than it is... if you
don't have kids, I don't see how you can run out of time on the weekends to do
basic things or not do those things during the week (esp. chores and errands).
I also experience a general feeling of malaise thinking about time wasted
during the weekends on internet/games/socializing when I could have been
cultivating new skills or working on entrepreneurship but that's definitely
mostly my fault.

~~~
vricius
work on entrepreneurship... you may be working 24/7 at first but the freedom
it creates is worth it in the end

------
tobr
If you work 5 days, 2 day weekend, that’s 150% more workdays than days off.
Replace just one of those workdays with a day off, and it drops radically -
just 33% more workdays than days off.

~~~
eertami
I went one further and dropped down to 3 days a week. I earn less now sure but
I get 3 full days to commit to hobbies/activities AND a no-guilt dedicated
rest day.

I'm in my mid-late twenties however, where the time is certainly much more
valuable to me. A lot of the things I find most fun are rather physically
demanding, you can go much harder for much longer on a mountain bike or on
skis the younger you are.

I guess there's an argument that you can retire earlier if you work more
right, but I think I'd get less out of that than having more time now. Maybe
that'll prove to be a mistake in the long run, who knows.

~~~
wukerplank
How do you do it? In which industry/role are you working? Employed or
freelance? Asking for a friend.

~~~
eertami
Software developer for a financial services company. Employee at first, went
freelance for unrelated reasons.

Honestly there wasn't much to it I just asked, but also made it clear I'd be
leaving if the answer was no. Company already had some part-timers (though
they are mostly new parents, so our motivations differ.)

------
nbrempel
I agree strongly with the author’s feelings. Machines and automation have
taken on most of the repitive work.

Also if the wealth disparity between the rich and the poor is growing, clearly
there is room in the budget to relax work schedules for most who want or need
it. For jobs that require mostly problem solving, one might argue that a
shorter workweek could actually increase productivity.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I actually started a newsletter
for job listings with shorter hours and other related stuff just last week:

[https://30hourjobs.com](https://30hourjobs.com)

------
daxfohl
This is funny because I've always actually _hated weekends_. I try to do
something "fun" or at least whatever people think of as "weekend-y", go out
for a hike, work out, whatever, but ... most of the time I feel like it's just
time wasted.

I'd far rather have a six-day work week, or perhaps even seven, and then three
consecutive months off per year to do some real travel or something.

Pretty sure this is a minority viewpoint, but curious if anyone else feels the
same.

~~~
ghaff
I certainly don't hate weekends or days off here and there generally. That
said, if I were to take more time off (and I get reasonably generous for the
US time as it is) I would definitely want it in a form where I could use it
for extended travel time rather than extended weekends.

------
alohomora2
This has already been solved thousands of years ago and it’s called Shabbat,
one day of the week of true, strict rest. No doing the laundry, no cooking, no
driving the car. In general, no creative activities which modify the world in
some way.

~~~
maccard
Doesn't this just exacerbate the issue? It means instead of a 5/2, you're
restricted to 5/1\. I definitely feel that more people should take the time to
rest and reflect, but I don't believe that taking 1/7 of my life and devoting
it to neutrality would have a positive impact on me, my relationships or even
the world!

~~~
alohomora2
That one day should be spent with family, friends, taking a stroll,
meditating, praying, studying, reflecting, napping. It’s not just the negation
of work. Some say it’s an “island in time.”

------
mrhappyunhappy
The workplace is a means of exhausting humans with mundane labor that enriches
a few while making the rest suffer. If you work 9-5 a 5 day week or longer,
consider yourself a hamster on a wheel. Business does not share the same
values us humans share. To see change you must be the change. Personally, if I
ran a company or a startup I’d mandate a 3 day work week - Tuesday to Wed if
we absolutely had to meet. Otherwise it would be fully remote and you choose
your work days.

When I first went out on my own, the line between weekends and workweek melted
so I always felt like I was working even on weekends. As time went by I
realized that I did not share that feeling the author mentions and it feels
great! I can go shopping any time, see a movie at 11 am if I want to on a
Monday and skip the crowds when everyone is out doing the same things on the
same day.

Modern workplaces are not built for productivity- they are places where you go
to waste time, time that could be spent on yourself.

I used to think business would not compete on a shorter work week but then I
looked at how I spent time at work - most of t was idle time once you count
the breaks, lunch, chit chat, browsing when you’re fried. All of this added up
to a significant amount of time no matter the position I occupied. It gets
worse when you are in a managerial position. Why on earth anyone would want to
subject themselves to wasting time at work instead of enjoying it at home
(unless they had problems at home) is not clear. I think we are stuck in this
perpetual need of having to outwork the other. To show that we are hard
working and will do anything to provide for our families. Except, in many
cases more time does not directly result in more money. Sure, you spend more
time sitting on your butt and claiming working hours or because your boss
demands it, but are you really getting more done? In an office environment I
can tell you with absolute certainty the answer is no.

So if you are a manager, a CEO or anyone in a position to do something about
this insane self-infliction, please evaluate your values, how you think
employees spend their time and be the change.

------
adomanico
It seems to me, this has nothing to do with a 40 hour work week.

This person has overcommitted themselves in their personal life to the point
where it is conflicting with their work responsibilities.

~~~
bcook
/s(arcasm) ?

------
mmole
I used to think I had no spare time. Now I have 2 kids under 3. It turns out I
used to have a TON of time in comparison.

------
ta81747
All of this is a choice.

You can choose to live a different life. In 20 years in tech, its the rare
person who asks "should we?" instead of "can we?"

Should you work yourself to death? Probably not. Can you? Sure. Was it a well
considered choice to do so?

------
manigandham
When I was younger, I had a fulltime contractor job where I only worked 4 days
a week, and also had flexible starting times. The freedom was incredible and
having just 1 extra day made work vs personal time seem much more equal (4
work, 3 off). I also got more done because longer days allowed me to get into
flow more and I suspect most salaried workers already spend more than 8 hours
a day anyway.

I've yet to really see any other companies do it, and I'm thinking of
instituting that policy in our current startup, but it deserves serious
consideration.

------
cronix
I solved most of this for myself purely by relocating closer to work. If you
have an hour commute (hour to, hour from), that's 40 hours/month sitting in
traffic being unproductive. That's an entire 3 months worth of full-time work
in a year. Just eliminating a long commute gives you back a _lot_ of time
during the regular week that's currently being completely wasted. Now I mostly
just work remotely.

------
sebastianconcpt
My impression is that the author needs to take entrepreneurship more seriously
instead of ranting about changing the universe to fit its current comfort
zone.

------
Waterluvian
"It's Monday, the dreadful countdown has started. You're already thinking
about the end of the week, and it barely started. As the days go by, you are
fixated on Friday 5pm."

I felt this doing data entry for $20/hr at Elections Ontario. My single most
effective co-op term because it really motivated me to get into a career I
love and bust my ass to never work a day in my life again.

------
gdubs
When I was younger I had this job I absolutely hated, and for a while I had
these really boring, mundane, night-long, recurring dreams about being at that
job. It was the worst. Felt totally trapped.

I can relate to the feelings in this article. But, for what it’s worth I’ve
found that cognitive behavioral therapy, meditation, and sleep, and exercise,
really help.

------
adamnemecek
> I want to spend time partaking in my hobbies on the weekend. However, I
> often find myself lifeless and staring blankly out the window. My mind is
> tired, my body is fatigued. By the time I'm fully rested it's Sunday night.
> At that point, it's time to head to bed and start the cycle of work again.

This in particular resonates. I used to be in the same sitch. Eventually it
became unbearable, a random 3 hours errand would ruin my week. How much could
I have accomplished in those 3 hours, I was telling myself.

I was also trying to work on a startup in my spare time but it wasn't
possible. Sometimes, you spend half day fixing some build system and by next
week, you'll forget where you left off.

Eventually I had to quit my job to maintain my sanity. It's insane how much
you can accomplish in a good week. I recommend it to anyone questioning their
current employment situation. Hit me up (email is in my profile) if you want
to explore this life style. The crazy thing is that even if you fail, you’ll
be ten times the programmer as when you left.

Two IRL friends quit their jobs to work on their own startups or freelance.
I've also convinced one person here on HN to do the same.

Those startup ideas might be more realistic than you realize, if you are given
enough time.

------
vlunkr
I think making time for hobbies really helps reduce the pain of this cycle. I
suck at the guitar, but I can play it for 15 minutes or so, and it breaks up
the monotony of the day and provides a different creative outlet than I get at
work. Even if you have to put off some chore, it’s crucial to make some time
to just be alive.

------
jorgesborges
I think the malaise stems more from a personal sense of dissatisfaction than
it does the objective conditions of an oppressive work week. Either accept the
trade-off, develop a better attitude toward it, or change your life.

------
photoguy112
I am thinking of launching a course on how to become a UX consultant /
designer if anyone here designs and wishes to go down that path. Let me
know... You can expect 60-150k, work from home.

------
metromews
John Maynard Keynes said that we would be working 15 hours a week by now. That
would so great.

------
rb808
Honestly I hate these self-absorbed, live-is-tough posts by Software
Developers doing creative work in a nice air conditioned office.

Get a real job, try milking a few hundred cows at 6am, work as a cop in a bad
city, or outside in construction when its freezing or scorching hot. Not to
mention doing it on a 20k wage with a few kids.

I get it, figuring out how to get our software working can require a lot of
thinking, but compared to most of the people out there its a sweet gig. Stop
complaining.

Edit: I don't want to sound snarky as this is. I realize lots of us do work
really hard and don't have much time for anything else, but that's just adult
life.

~~~
GuardianCaveman
So by your logic you can work 80 hours a week but because you’re inside an
office and not a barn you lose you’re right to want a better work life
balance? Where is the cut off for not being able to complain or is it like a
spectrum? 20k wage with kids is bad you say what about 30k with 1 kid? Is that
too easy? Cop in a good neighborhood? How good does the neighborhood have to
be before you can’t complain anymore? You said a few hundred cows at 6 am is
rough? What about 99 cows at 7am?

People can be overworked in all kinds of jobs. Who are you the complaint
police?

~~~
rayiner
> Where is the cut off for not being able to complain or is it like a
> spectrum?

Wherever the cut-off happens to be, software developers are far past it.

~~~
existencebox
That's absurd. I've worked in call centers, as a mover, and as a software
engineer. There are perfectly valid reasons to complain across the spectrum.
Worker rights are not some limited good that only need to go to the most
vulnerable, and even white collar workers should be aware and proactive about
fighting for better treatment in the workplace. Being well paid has not
prevented me from seeing egregious workplace interactions across many of my
past jobs, or observing that workers could likely get a more generous slice of
the tradeoffs we give our employers without in any way being inequitable.

~~~
mojolozzo
Sure, worker rights shouldn't be limited to tge most vulnerable. This post
however wasn't about work ethics, but about having too little time for
yourself if you are working 40hrs/week. It's actually not even about work/life
balance, but rather work/chores/hobbies balance. In my opinion you can't blame
the 40hours of work.

------
jgalt212
Oh my, no mention of kids. Just wait how much he hates the weekend after that
happens.

------
dentit
Weekends are meant to fulfill obligations.

------
kome
You don't hate weekends, you hate capitalism.

~~~
0xcde4c3db
For those unfamiliar, this is a riff on an anticapitalist slogan: "You don't
hate Mondays, you hate capitalism". If you're baffled as to why someone would
say this, you might consider Marx's theory of alienation [1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation)

------
nathias
if you don't like what you're doing, stop doing it

~~~
rootusrootus
That is pretty trite.

Most people don't have that luxury.

~~~
WaltPurvis
True. It's also true that most people don't have the luxury of complaining
that 40 hours of indoor office work is too hard (even downright unethical and
inhumane). _Most_ people in the world wouldn't even be able to conceive of the
concept of complaining about the inhumane torture of having to do 40 hours of
indoor office work per week.

~~~
Top5a
The fact that they alluded to their predicament being unethical or inhumane
made me actually laugh out loud. The author is absolutely delusional.

Even funnier, my initial response was that there must be some dietary or
medical/hormonal issue, prior to reading the article. I was downvoted for this
almost immediately. Then, whilst reading the article, came across this gem >On
top of that, I'm mentally ill and thoroughly medicated< So, I was correct, and
yet was downvoted. Really makes you think, doesn't it?

------
black-tea
My dad had real weekends. No grocery shopping, no laundry or other chores. He
got stuff done, but he didn't have to do it and most weekends he truly
relaxed.

How did he manage this? He had a wife. She did the chores during the week
while he worked.

Now that women have been told that they should work they do, even if they're
not particularly good at it. And now we don't have weekends. We are single
people working full time to support ourselves and we're completely trapped by
it. What a tragedy.

------
Top5a
Tired after a 40-hour week + commute? lol... hormonal imbalance or diet/health
problem.

------
YeahSureWhyNot
LMAO the author complains about all the chores that come with high maintenance
life. well, go minimalist.

------
tirumaraiselvan
TLDR: Author doesn't have enough time in weekends to rest properly.

------
anonymous1204
The short answer to this, is that this is the lazy form of thinking pestering
people's minds (especially young) nowadays. People who don't know how to plan
their lives, finances, time, studies, family, work, health or whatever it is
that needs a solution, and blame it on the system. Just like my ex-girlfriend,
she used to talk on and on (and on and on, and on again) about "our system",
and then after I broke up with her and she graduated college she didn't start
working, she is traveling the world for the past 6 months with government
welfare that Europe is so stupid to give. As the years go by she will keep
complaining about "our system" but she never did anything to improve "our
system", she only consumed. This is called leeching.

Take some responsibility & get what needs to be done quickly and well, and you
will buy yourself some freedom, nothing in life is free, and it shouldn't be,
since no one should be working and not getting paid for it.

------
z3t4
Get 4 weeks off, then spend it off grid, the more primitive the better,
fighting the elements and hunting for food. When you get home you will be
really happy just having a warm bed. That's for motivation. But then there's
your brain being completely fried by the end of the weekend, be glad that you
do not have a mundane repetitive work (or be glad if you do).

------
miguelmota
Many software developers are 9 to 5-ers meaning when they get home they don't
do any more programming and don't do programming on the weekend either. They
do most of their learning while on the job. These programmers are of course
mediocre at best and typically work at slow paced large companies with lower
pay but they're satisfied with their work/life balance and there is nothing
wrong with that.

If the author is complaining that work leaks into the weekends then perhaps he
should communicate with his colleagues and managers to figure out which
processes in their workflow can be fixed to avoid that. He also has the
ability to jump to another company if he feels his current company is too
demanding.

Everyone has 24 hours in a day; use it wisely, especially doing something
you're good at that makes you money but also enjoy.

~~~
wilsonnb3
> These programmers are of course mediocre at best

This is very elitist and not true. 40 hours a week for 20 years is more than
enough to be considered “good” at the very least.

~~~
miguelmota
> for 20 years

Yes 20 years, but the majority of developers don't have anything remotely
close to that many years in the field.

I've worked with many developers over my career and the ones who do
programming on weekends and off-hours tended to produce significant more
output than those who didn't.

Anybody who puts any effort to improve themselves and skillsets by working
off-hours means they're rising above mediocracy.

~~~
Top5a
^This. First Slashdot, then Ars, now HN filled with an ever-increasing amount
of mediocrity. But, I passed bootcamp! I have more structured hours of
experience sleeping at my desk and slacking off in the nap room -- that makes
me a better programmer, I promise! If it wasn't covered in a test or in my
assignments, it doesn't exist! The Office Space meme has come full circle, two
decades later.

