
A man using Google ad data to help heroin users - pslattery
https://onezero.medium.com/900-000-americans-tell-google-they-want-to-try-buy-or-quit-heroin-every-year-48f725ee5db9
======
p410n3
> (Anyone who runs ads on Google — for any purpose — can see this kind of data
> about who clicks their ads.)

This is total bogus. You don't see that kind of data in google ads. If there
are enough clicks on your ad you see a rough demographic like rough areas,
gender, rough age. They dont't just handover your browsing history.

That and the fact that the article uses korean letters to avoid spam filters
just looks fishy.

[1]: [https://support.google.com/google-
ads/thread/1488660?hl=en](https://support.google.com/google-
ads/thread/1488660?hl=en)

~~~
leshow
Yeah, it's not explained at all in the article how they are getting that kind
of data out of google and linking it to a phone number/address. I've certainly
never seen anyones browsing history on the analytics I have set up on my blog.

~~~
adriand
He does explain it. He says he uses something called "Callrail":

> By syncing Google Ads with Callrail, your name and address is tied to your
> click (and all your other data) when you conduct a certain action on a
> website that an ad directs to. (Clicking a phone number on the website, for
> example).

And he says he uses Squarespace to add additional data:

> Callrail provides marketers the data that Google would never dare to. Yet
> Callrail still withholds your IP address (exact location) from us.

> But there’s also an easy way around this: through a website-building
> software called Squarespace, which costs $12 a month.

> By directing your click to a Squarespace website that uses a Callrail
> forwarding number, we can see your precise location, including your home
> address.

I have no idea if any of this works as advertised, but he does explain it.

------
X6S1x6Okd1st
This guy has written basically the same article multiple times (heroin,
suicide, mass shooting). I can't seem to find the sites he is claiming to
drive traffic to. There seems to be little to no evidence that these
experiments actually took place.

It kind of seems like these pieces are elaborate adcopy/SEO for his company.

~~~
CobrastanJorji
You're accusing someone with their own search ad agency of writing low quality
content for SEO purposes? Why, I never!

~~~
X6S1x6Okd1st
I'm kind of surprised nyt published the piece, I do think it has some value,
it just seems so focused on the value you can get using adtech and how much it
costs and not much on the actual supposed subject

------
andai
From the same author:

"Every day, Americans tell Google they’re going to shoot up their school or
workplace. I know this because I serve ads on Google to prospective mass
shooters."

[https://onezero.medium.com/every-day-americans-tell-
google-t...](https://onezero.medium.com/every-day-americans-tell-google-they-
want-to-do-a-mass-shooting-9940f1a01934)

~~~
ryeights
>My ad encourages prospective shooters to speak with a mental health
professional — not that they ever call. But when my ad is clicked, the
prospective shooter’s data passes into my system. This includes the words they
type. But it also comprises their age, gender, and income, their parental,
marital, and homeownership status, where they live, their browsing history,
where they work, the age of their children, the devices they use, the time of
their search, and more.

>(Anyone who runs ads on Google — for any purpose — can see this kind of data
about who clicks their ads.)

While the intent is noble, this seems very 1984-adjacent.

~~~
tempguy9999
"I use ad data to try to save their lives" whether they ask for it or not.
That's not noble, that's more like controlling behaviour.

Assuming this story is true, anyway.

~~~
ryeights
The "noble intent" would be saving _other people 's_ lives

~~~
tempguy9999
Edit: deleted due to crossed wires on my part.

~~~
ryeights
What? I'm talking about the linked article about mass shooters…

~~~
tempguy9999
My mistake. The OP had the story you refer to. I was referring to the main
story, which did have the phrase "shooting up in every city in the United
States" which is unfortunately close. Apologies.

------
fhub
This doesn't seem to fit Google's ad policy

From
[https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/176031](https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/176031).

[Quote] Google restricts advertising for recovery-oriented drug and alcohol
addiction services.

Examples of recovery-oriented addiction services: Clinical addiction treatment
providers, recovery support services like sober living environments and mutual
help organizations, lead generators or referral agencies for addiction
services, crisis hotlines for drug and alcohol addiction [/Quote]

[Quote] In order to advertise for recovery-oriented drug and alcohol addiction
services, you must be certified as an addiction services provider by the
LegitScript Certification program. [/Quote]

I know they police this because I got knocked back for trying to advertise for
one of my projects -
[https://www.recoverypath.com/](https://www.recoverypath.com/). Even after
pushing my case it was a dead end. LegitScripts don't certify apps.

~~~
r_singh
> LegitScripts don't certify apps.

I wonder how long this will continue... because apps could definitely
compliment other therapy in many innovative ways.

------
scarejunba
Hilarious. Guys, this is just marketing for his search engine marketing
business. Clearly he's good at the job because you guys are lapping it up. I
think he probably didn't even do the things he's claiming, though he's aware
it's plausible. Fake it till you make it, etc.

I reckon you could probably write some "Evil corporations are violating your
privacy" blog post that is probably total bullshit and HN would start a cult
around it.

~~~
X6S1x6Okd1st
Yeah the fact that almost no specifics are given nor the site he claims he
made for the project makes me feel on the "complete fabrication" side of the
fence

------
dessant
This article rises a lot of unanswered questions about how does Google exactly
reveal user data to the advertiser. Are they referring to the filters the
advertiser used to target the ad and the search keyword, or something more?

> By syncing Google Ads with Callrail, your name and address is tied to your
> click (and all your other data) when you conduct a certain action on a
> website that an ad directs to. (Clicking a phone number on the website, for
> example).

How does Callrail have people's name and address? None of the data relinking
the article describes should be made possible by Google and Callrail. If true,
this is obviously illegal.

~~~
texasbigdata
I've used call rail before. They don't IIRC. I believe he's using the IP (from
Google?) since he says "Yet Callrail still withholds your IP address (exact
location) from us.". So it seems he's taking 1) Your IP, 2) Your Phone Number
and 3) matching your phone number to your name (I don't think call rail does
this natively, unless you have a CRM).

I'm not a Call Rail expert, but couldn't you do this with a pixel or
alternative measure? Like really you're baiting them into calling you, then
layering on the IP of their device to triangulate where they likely are.

~~~
mrandish
There are data brokers who claim to turn a phone number into a billing address
zip code probably relinking via some credit card company or bank selling
"anonymized" data.

------
Jamwinner
While his intent seems genuine, he is basically preying on a vunerable
population, with the help of google and other ad-network spying tools. How
many are also doing this for less noble purposes while google looks the other
way?

~~~
daguar
I can say from experience, many. It's why this kind of visibility is good: it
incentivizes better enforcement by Google.

------
deepersprout
"This data includes the words clickers type, but also their web browsing
history, where they work, the size of the company they work for, whether they
rent or own a home, whether they’re married or single, whether they have kids,
how old their kids are, the apps they use, whether they’ve recently gone
through a “major life event,” whether they drive a Chevy (or prefer Ford), any
degrees they hold, whether or not they graduated high school, and more."

I would love to know what google knows about me. Is there a way to find out?

~~~
joosters
In Europe, you could theoretically ask Google for this information. But would
this only be for EU-hosted data?

You could always buy an ad and then click on it with your own account, I
suppose.

~~~
zer0tonin
> But would this only be for EU-hosted data?

No, GDPR request are for your personal info no matter where they are
physically stored. In the case of Google it's very likely that they replicate
their databases across multiple datacenters, at least it's what the SRE book
indicates.

------
viggity
how in the hell does CallRail work? It seems that they can map my browser
fingerprint to my phone number. Is it just a gigantic amount of cross
referencing and a large db? Are they doing it just based on timing. Seems
crazy to me. I know it is technologically possible, but they have to buying
the browser fingerprint info from some other vendor, yes?

ninja edit: I get using a forwarding number so you can track how long the
calls take, etc. But it seems like they can map the call to the forwarding
number to the session on the website.

~~~
texasbigdata
Not an expert but I've used it before. Think of it like gmail + VOIP put
together. When you run an ad on google that incentizes a non-click action
(i.e. call us!), to track that result, google randomly generates a phone
number (I think) which then gets forwarded to your business.

So let's say your widget business is 123-123-1234. When Johnny searches
widget, Google will show 123-532-4355 (to track your attribution) then forward
that to your real line. What call rail does is insert itself in that path, and
basically serve as an inbox and faciliate that. So you can have someone
offshore listen to the phone calls (or some other technological method) and
say..."hey did this person actually book an appointment?". And then you can
track that conversion, and theoretical ROI.

I'm sort of misunderstanding the whole value prop of call rail, but this is no
more nefarious than using a VOIP with call display and recording everything.
If you can bait individuals (by paying Google Ads to place highly) to call
you, then yeah, you can sort of figure out who they are right?

I think that's the jist of it, just really amped up to make it sound cool.

~~~
soared
Your description is correct. You can match keyword bids -> calls -> sales, so
it makes it very clear what keywords to spend your marketing budget on.
(caveats everywhere of course)

------
roywiggins
"your IP address (exact location)"

Unless things have significantly changed, since when does your IP expose your
actual address? Do ISPs sell this data on to brokers, or what?

