

Europeans Fear Crisis Threatens Liberal Benefits  - cwan
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/world/europe/23europe.html

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Nwallins
I would like to make an outlandish suggestion: 10 years of pension /
retirement / paid healthcare. Take it whenever you want after the admittedly
arbitrary age of 30. After that, you're on your own.

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hga
While I could make any number of sarcastic and cutting comments on this, note
the tiny bit about Sweden. Many would say they were/are the leading European
"lifestyle superpower", but when they found themselves at the brink not too
many years ago they drew back and are therefore much better positioned now
that the Great Recession is dragging on pretty much everyone.

~~~
electromagnetic
Yes, but laws about to come into effect in Canada basically halve peoples
legal entitlement to disability benefits while keeping their payments the same
and removing their ability to get fair arbitration leaving lawsuits the only
option.

Yes, Europe has been the superpower in this, but the same effects are
happening _everywhere_ , it's just not nearly as good a story.

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_delirium
Isn't this just general political liberal v. libertarian debate about the
proper role of the state, not really hacker news?

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hga
Well, there's the trends/tipping point issue.

I.e. suppose we accept for the moment the "lifestyle superpower" is a a good
thing thesis and ignore the US Free World military hegemony that helped to
allow its development (OK for the sake of argument at least for now, given the
dissolution of really big existential threats like Nazi Germany and the USSR).

Are such systems sustainable in the medium term? If not, how might they be
adjusted, and will any reasonable set of adjustments truly fix them or merely
kick the can down the road?

For those asking these questions the Great Recession has been a boon,
illustrating Warren Buffet's comment that "When the tide goes out you find out
who's been swimming naked."

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_delirium
I don't see how you can separate that from the wider political and economic
debates, though. Is, say, finance-based capitalism sustainable in the medium
term? If not, how might it be adjusted? Etc. Should people start submitting
Paul Krugman pieces here? I just don't think particularly useful discussion is
likely to result, apart from the usual two sides squaring off.

~~~
hga
" _Is, say, finance-based capitalism sustainable in the medium term?_ "

In a forum nominally dedicated to the subject of angel and VC financed
startups, I'd say that's germane as well.

Certainly advocates (at least somewhat) against that thesis are aiming
directly at the heart and sinews of angel financing (Dodd's bill with the
impossible regulatory regime as well as net worth increases).

Earlier in this decade they finished the run of VC based IPO financing that
started in the late 1950s (expensing of stock options and SarBox)....

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kierank
This crisis will considered a mere precursor to the pensions timebomb coming
our way.

