
Show HN: The Tree Table is a portable table that mounts on a tree's trunk. - boris1
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tree-table
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lostmyoldone
While the usefullness is debatable, I'm a little concerned about the tree
friendliness.

From what I can see on the pictures, the standoffs, including the side
stability lugs shown in one of the pictures might be too small to avoid risk
of damage to the bark.

For most trees, short mounting time, and light load it is probably fine as the
page states, but someone walking into the table, or trying to sit on it, would
likely damage at least some species of tree.

Use on your own trees as you wish, but maybe avoid things like this on
community/park trees, at least not without additional padding and some
understanding of how robust the particular kind of tree is.

Trees are very strong, but the bark isn't always.

Padding for trees should almost always be smooth on the tree side to avoid
abrasion when mounting, no harder than the tree outer and inner bark, and
spread the load ... sufficiently.

What is sufficient will vary from species to species, and to some extent by
age, but considering some trees have a soft enough bark that you can at least
superficially damage it with a fingernail, there are no obvious rules.

Err on the side of caution.

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boris1
I tried it on about 20 trees, of all shapes I could find here in Vancouver,
BC, coding on my laptop for 8 hours a day. No noticeable damage with a naked
eye, using the prototype. The bark doesn't get damaged, because once
everything is tightened, there's no movement or wiggling, only a compression.
Most bark can handle the compression. So even if you bump into the tree,
nothing's going to happen.

The manufactured product will probably have some padding on the lugs, it may
not be wood lugs, but maybe rubber lugs. Or metal or wood lugs, with rubber
padding glued on.

The way I set in in the prototype, is when the bolt of the lug rotates, the
lug also rotates. So I have to set it right, and then just use it at that
position. For the manufactured product, I'd like to set it, then tighten the
belt a little, then allow to screw the lug bolt so that the mounting bar would
become vertical. This means that the lug must have a bearing, that would make
the rotating bolt (or shaft) rotate freely, without moving anything on the
bark, so that the bark doesn't get damaged.

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bryanrasmussen
It looks too complicated for me, it would probably just make me think I will
sit on the ground with my laptop. However I feel the concept could be made to
appeal to someone as lazy as me with some simplification - I'm thinking if
everything could be focused on the strap.

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boris1
First, it gets cold to work sitting if it's Spring time (15 degrees Celcius).
Is this case, only working standing keeps you warm enough, since the blood is
circulating. (In the hot summer, you could work sitting in a shade of a tree.)
Second, you can't work sitting on the ground for too long, it's just not
ergonomic. I also like my ergonomic Microsoft keyboard, without which I can't
code for too long. I like my mouse, etc. So, by sitting on the ground you can
do some adhoc work, but you'll go home for serious commitment.

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brudgers
To me, this seems like an idea that warrants a longer period of hand-crafting
before a $100,000 production run. It's an interesting prototype, but a folding
"church table" is a better sorted piece of engineering. I can turn it to face
the ocean, work in a parking lot, and it takes approximately the same space.
Good luck.

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boris1
You can't work on a regular table (like a church table) in a standing
position. On a cloudy spring day, it's too cold to sit. You have to work
standing, to keep the blood flowing.

Also, a folding church table is heavy to carry around. Part of all that weight
comes from the fact that the table has to be of a reasonable size to be tall
and stable. The best table like this is the pricy Roll-a-Table (it's not a
church table) and I have it. But it's 12 lb to carry around which I didn't
enjoy. And, I also had to carry also a chair (Roll-a-Chair), and at the end of
it all, I couldn't work standing. So, on top of this a carried around a
camping table that I put on top of the Roll-a-Table. Together with a laptop
stand, it gave me a standing working position. All that complexity is gone
with the Tree Table. I mount it at the height I need to work standing, and
it's light to carry.

If I get the funding, I'll invest some part of it to see if I can make it
disassemble more for better portability. If I don't come with a
simplification, you get the table as in the prototype.

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anotheryou
It's nice but lacking some polish.

I think it would also have to focus on portability.

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boris1
I refactored it and posted a pic. It's simple to carry now. (You were right.)
The final product will be even better (would pack smaller, and will be
lighter. That's because I'm planning to use thin aluminium for the table too,
not wood.)

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claymav
I'd love to see a new version of this in a little while with a few things
reconsidered: 1\. Portability is very important here, making it fold up small
and be light 2\. Simpler mechanism. Seems like it's too complicated to be
easily adopted by many people. 3\. Leveling, might be convenient to make it
easy to level against the tree in both directions. Could integrate a level
into the table itself.

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boris1
I'll only work on V2 of this after I get some funding through a campaign. Why?
I'm a coder by trade. I'm not going to gamble with R&D on the table concept,
if I have to bootstrap it on my own. If I get the funding, I'll go full time
on this, and I'll surely make it more portable. I have to experiment with 3D
printed parts, I think. It can't be done with stuff out of Home Depot.

~~~
claymav
I've contributed and I wish you luck! Keep improving and I think this concept
could be great. Might want to try advertising outside of HN though

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boris1
Hi Clay, I saw -- thanks. I refactored it, and it's simple to carry now. I've
posted an update with a pic, I think you are receiving those.

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boris1
Guys, if I get the funding, I'll make it better before I put into production
(more portable, etc.) I'll do some more R&D and tinkering with it. I'll
probably also hire a mechanical engineer to consult me. But it does the job,
even as it is. So worst case, you'll get it as it is now, best case you'll get
a better variant.

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boris1
I had a breakthrough today about how to make this table fully portable. It can
be assembled really quickly without tools. I have documented the changes in
the campaign page in the subsection "Planned Improvements in Portability".

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wiseleo
I use a couple of music stands to set optimal angle and height for my laptop
and keyboard, but this is a good idea. Should be able to make it :)

The fabric shade would be trickier to make. I use a small pop up tent though.
It unfolds by throwing into air and keeps mosquitoes out. :)

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boris1
Interesting idea. How do you prevent the music stand from tipping from wind? I
thought of something like this, but thought that the stands would be too heavy
to carry around, if they would large enough to be stable enough. Also, the
stands are short -- you can't really work standing, can you?

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dplgk
Seems overlay complicated. It could have one folding leg on one end and the
strap that goes around the tree on the other. No clamps or whatever. So it's
perpendicular to the tree instead of staring at the tree.

~~~
boris1
People tried this, it's the most well known way. I haven't tried it, but I
suspect that it doesn't work well. Why? There's no existing product on the
market, despite the fact that it's a well known method. My guess that it's
hard to level the table that way. Also, there's the patent on which the Tree
Table is based (expired in 2001). Why was the patent made, if an alternate
solution was easy?

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boris1
I have refactored the prototype, and it's easy to carry now.

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Olgrnko
How long does it take to set up the table to the tree? Didn't find in the
description and for me it looks like a complicated process.

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boris1
It takes me about 10 minutes, and it's complicated the first few times. I got
a hang of it now. The trick is to hold the mounting-bar and the belt in one
grip by the right hand, while you tighten the belt with the left. I tighten
loosely to leave some room to move up and down, so that I position it to my
desired height. After that I tighten it more. I attach the table, slightly
adjust the mounting bar so that the table is horizontal. Then I use a wrench
to tighten to the maximum. After that I extend the side locks, so that the
table doesn't wiggle side to side.

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ZinniaZirconium
I was so hoping this was a new data structure.

It's a laptop holder.

Funny thing is I rarely code on a laptop anymore. I find a tablet to be so
much more portable and I'm adapted to the touch keyboard. So I could use a
park bench or sit on the ground and still be productive.

One question I have is not in the FAQ. How do you prevent theft if you leave
it strapped to the tree when you walk away to use the bathroom?

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boris1
This is not a problem if you cowork with someone. But it's not the case for
me, so planning ahead about the bathroom is the most critical deciding factor
for where I'm going to work.

I try to find a spot that either has a real toilet close by, or a place with a
foresty area where I could pee in the bushes. A bonus is if I can keep line-
of-sight on my Tree Table. In any case, I leave the tree table attached. No
one is going to bother to steal it, it looks too unusual, weird, intimidating.

I could also ask someone else in the park who looks normal to watch my stuff,
but I have never found the situation to be critical enough to make such a
request.

