
Docker Acquires Tutum - samber
http://blog.docker.com/2015/10/docker-acquires-tutum/
======
falcolas
I try and not comment about this too much, but the text on the Docker site is
stupidly hard to read. The font color, #7A8491, has a contrast ratio of 3.8/1
(black on white has a ratio of 21/1), which is barely above the w3
accessibility standards for _large_ text (18 point, or 14 point bold - higher
for the thin stroke text the Docker page uses (Helvetica Neue Thin)).

Fix this, please, Docker. A few more points towards black isn't going to
destroy the look and feel of your page.

~~~
KurtMueller
Every time somebody brings this up, I always think about this website:
[http://contrastrebellion.com/](http://contrastrebellion.com/)

~~~
nacs
And we come full circle (from their website):

[http://thumbsnap.com/i/djeyW72B.png?1021](http://thumbsnap.com/i/djeyW72B.png?1021)

------
geerlingguy
This seems to be a good move towards a more stable revenue generator for
Docker, the company, but I'm more interested in what the long-term Docker
ecosystem implications are.

I think Docker is _just_ passing through the early adopter status in terms of
actual production usage (it's much more mature in its lifecycle for dev), and
having one of many cloud Docker providers owned by Docker might have a
chilling effect on other 'container in the cloud' providers using Docker as
their primary container format/platform.

~~~
krakensden
I mean- AWS, GCE, and Microsoft are already on board, and AFAICT all the
little container centric providers are 100% docker. Who else needs to be
convinced?

~~~
outside1234
Well, I would say all of those companies are convinced of the open source
container engine itself, but much less around Swarm, Compose, and the other
components.

In particular, Mesos seems super strong in the orchestration/scheduling layer,
and its not clear that Docker will be able to dislodge them.

~~~
SEJeff
I honestly think it solves a different problem. Apple runs Siri on the biggest
mesos cluster in the world (pretty much verbatim quote from MesosCon 2015. I
was there). Twitter runs clusters over 10k physical nodes.

Swarm and compose are cute, but they simply aren't made for that kind of
massive scale. The inverse of course, is that they are incredibly easy to
setup, and they work for a very large number of workloads reasonably well.

I manage mesos clusters as part of $day_job. There is a certain level of setup
required and if you don't need the scale, you simply don't need mesos for it.
I really see them as complementary in the longer term. Perhaps a swarm mesos
framework could be written. It is highly unlikely that Docker will ever do the
resource scheduling better than Mesos.

~~~
nickstinemates
Great points.

There is a swarm/mesos integration whereby the Swarm API is offered to the
developer but it uses the Mesos framework to do the scheduling.

It works, and there's more to come in terms of demos around the corner.

~~~
SEJeff
And that is the sweet spot where you get the ease of swarm with the
scalability of mesos. Win/win

------
thepumpkin1979
I tried Tutum a couple months ago, the onboarding experience was awesome, the
free image builder was super fast, metrics of my processes everywhere I loved
it... the struggle started until I deployed a real app with little workload:
After a couple of hours Metrics didn't worked at all, process got stalled and
the whole UI became useless because I had zero visibility of what was going
on.

I switched to Heroku only to realize that I had the same problem there too,
obviously it was an issue in my app but at least Heroku have me an specific
R14 error code and description of what was happening and finally knew what I
was dealing with. For the next 48h that I was debugging the memory leak I had
my dynos switched to 1X to get even more resource metrics, once the issue was
solved I switched my dynos back to hobby.

I'm considering going back to Tutum now that I have deferpanic installed and
configured in my app and my Heroku bills are around 100 USD monthly(20USD SSL
endpoint x 3 + 7USD hobby dynos x 3 + 22.50USD Compose RethinkDB), but I was
shocked to realize how much value a mature PaaS can deliver for clients even
for a hobby-ish app like mine.

------
dpeterson
I did a quick smoke test to see if Tutum passes muster. My smoke test for this
kind of tool is if they have a solution for deploying mongodb as a production
level service with sharding or at the very least replica sets. Like so many
other “let’s do the easy part and stop there” companies, they have a template
for starting a single development mongodb node that would be easy enough to do
myself. I want a tool that has a repository of templates for making formations
of very hard things easy. Openshift is at least working on it:
[https://github.com/openshift/mongodb](https://github.com/openshift/mongodb)
Their replica set version is not able to persist data permanently until
Kubernetes figures out how to attach separate persistent volumes to pods in
the same service. Unfortunately, Amazon is again the only game in town that
does exactly what I want: [https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/mongodb-on-the-
aws-cloud-ne...](https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/mongodb-on-the-aws-cloud-
new-quick-start-reference-deployment/).

If I want to run locally, I have to ditch Docker entirely and just use
Ansible: [https://github.com/ansible/ansible-
examples/tree/master/mong...](https://github.com/ansible/ansible-
examples/tree/master/mongodb)

~~~
muraiki
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but the phrase is "passes muster."
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pass_muster](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pass_muster)

But "passes mustard" did give me a pretty funny visual image. :)

~~~
dpeterson
Ha, well that was stupid of me :)

------
sciurus
Do I have this right?

In 2011 dotCloud launches as a platform-as-a-service company.

In 2013 dotCloud releases docker, software based on the lessons they learned
building their PaaS product.

In 2013 Tutum starts to build a PaaS based on Docker.

In 2014 Docker (renamed from dotCloud) sells their PaaS to cloudControl.

In 2015 Docker buys Tutum.

~~~
pchico83
Tutum is not a real PaaS, it runs containers in the user infrastructure and
can be easily adapted to run on-premise

------
csears
Tutum mentions they manage persistent volumes and handle mapping them to
containers at runtime, presumably across different nodes/hosts.

Anyone know how that actually works? Is it similar to Flocker at all?

~~~
eloycoto
In the last dockerconEU I had a chat with Borja Burgos and he said that they
were planning to use flocker for that.

Not sure if finally was the solution ;-)

Congrats too all teams!

~~~
mnewell
Yeah, I know that they are still looking into integrating with Flocker. Not
there yet, though.

------
JoshGlazebrook
I've used Tutum for a little while now and I love it. I'm just wondering about
what Dockers plans are for when Tutum leaves beta. It would be nice if it
stayed free. The potential pricing seems decent enough at $7/node/month, but
it could be better.

edit:

updated tentative pricing image url as it looks like someone has deleted it
off the tutum slack team site.

[http://i.imgur.com/i5k8nkr.png](http://i.imgur.com/i5k8nkr.png)

~~~
wpietri
"The requested file could not be found."

~~~
JoshGlazebrook
I've updated my post with a new url.

------
fapjacks
I jumped on Tutum immediately after it was announced, installed it across my
test infrastructure, because it scratched an itch that was particularly hard
for me. I like to think of myself as a good user / developer, and I submitted
a few tickets with some bug reports and feedback, along with a few questions
trying to clarify how they were doing what they did.

I have almost never been treated like such a piece of shit in my life. The
attitude I got from multiple people on the Tutum team really drove home that
they don't give a shit about loners like me, don't have time for my bug
reports, and don't care what my questions are. It really left me thinking I
must have said something inadvertently that totally offended them, but I
couldn't find it anywhere when I looked.

I really hope I just got some of their team on a one-off bad day, or those
people have since left, or something. It was really strange, and of course I
immediately stopped using their software.

------
ykumar6
Amazon Elastic Container Service is a robust offering and I can't see why
anyone would choose Tutum over ECS.

Yes, you can run Tutum on AWS, but why? When products can't substantially
differentiate themselves against AWS, the customer will choose AWS. Customers
don't want to be stuck in choice paradox.

~~~
bovermyer
Because failover.

Seriously - Tutum lets me rebuild my infra on Digital Ocean if/when AWS dies,
and quickly. ECS, by contrast, is just POOF in that scenario.

------
neilellis
I'm an avid Tutum fan and an early adopter. Explore and play with this tech it
just get's nicer the more you use it. You can run Tutum on your own machines
(including your laptop behind a firewall/NAT) with the Bring Your Own Node
configuration. I have moved systems from AWS to Digital Ocean with a couple of
clicks. I currently have regional failover on Digital Ocean which took me a
few minutes to set up.

The whole user experience is awesomely simple. If I had to describe these guys
I'd say they are the Digital Ocean of the docker ecosystem.

Their 'Stacks' are so similar to docker-compose that only minor edits are
required - and I expect with this acquisition even that will go in time.

And yes, finally a revenue stream for Docker I can believe in!

------
ShakataGaNai
It's interesting, and logical, that Docker would buy something. I'm only just
getting into Docker but everyone I talk to says something along the lines of
"no one runs bare docker containers in Production".

I've also been using Tutum and it's made life really easy, especially on my
BYONode. I just hope they don't price the product out of reach for us
hobbyists.

~~~
jtmarmon
> "no one runs bare docker containers in Production"

can you elaborate on this?

------
jaboutboul
Only a matter of time before Red Hat acquires Docker...

~~~
mnewell
Yuck! Don't say such things.

------
flowerpot
I somehow felt like the docker team was closer with the Rancher team, so I
thought docker might acquire Rancher at some point. I think this is a move to
produce revenue in the future while Rancher is yet another open source project
to monetize.

~~~
nickstinemates
We spend a lot of time with all companies in the ecosystem, and feel it's
important to stay close and to support both their technical and business
interests.

We're engaged with over 300 companies that are technically integrating in to
Docker to enhance their product offerings, with 6-10 added every week.

------
tacotuesday
I'd like to know what Tatum offers in comparison to fabric8.io. It seems the
"video intro" and "take it for a spin" links are the same, and not a video
introduction. That's disappointing. Maybe someone in charge of the page can
fix it please?

Searching for "Tatum video introduction" on a search engine only returns
results about a certain movie star, which is not terribly helpful.

~~~
KenCochrane
The name of the company is Tutum, not Tatum, maybe that will help your search
results.

Here is another youtube video: Getting Started with Tutum
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnV92aHLmyE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnV92aHLmyE)

~~~
tacotuesday
Wow, I totally misread that. I bet I'm not alone :) Thanks for the link
KenCochrane.

------
joeyspn
Well, that was fast... After the announcement of Amazon Container Registry
docker had to make some move and this is a great one.

Congrats to the tutum team, they have built a really nice project that makes
really easy to build and maintain container pipelines.

Can't wait to see the integrations with the other docker tools...

~~~
cwilkes
Speaking of Amazon, I thought that docker was going to hit their bottom line
as now people could easily fully utilize their ec2 instances and thus cutting
into their already thin margins. However they jumped past this problem with
Lambda. Because in the end I don't want to run an operating system. I don't
even want to run tomcat. I just want to run a function in tha cloud. Docker
makes it easier to shovel around your application while lambda is the next
phase of cloud development.

~~~
joeyspn
> Docker makes it easier to shovel around your application while lambda is the
> next phase of cloud development.

Yes, lambda and friends (AWS Mobile Hub, JAWS Stack, etc) are the next
paradigm, but it's not ripe yet. For instance the newly introduced cronjob
only allows 5 mins periods as minimum, when for one of my projects I needed
full cron precision (I was starting to build on Lambda and had to return to
docker...)

Maybe in 6-12 months thing will be fully ready...

~~~
stephenitis
You should test out IronWorker which allows for 1-2 hours per task run, more
languages, and supports docker images for your runtime environments. Although
it not as price conscious as lambda it is definitely more feature rich and
easy to use.

(I used to work for Iron.io)

------
serverholic
What is the recommended development environment for this? Docker Toolbox?
What's the recommended setup?

------
jakobloekke
So that's why the "Sign in with Github" button was hidden behind a link this
morning ... :)

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vargalas
Great news!

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tomwbarlow
Hurray! :)

