
Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter - vesterinen
http://arcticstartup.com/2014/01/23/linda-liukas-programming-book-for-children-has-huge-first-day-on-kickstarter
======
callmeed
The comments on this thread make me want to quit HN for good.

I don't know Linda but I volunteered at RailsGirls in SF this past weekend. It
was a wonderful experience and I'm hoping to organize one here in my area.
I've got 4 kids (3 girls, 1 boy) and we do everything from LEGOs to making
movies to programming to SnapCircuits to building robots.

I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine
anything bad/wrong coming out of its existence. It's good to know many of you
can. A woman who already speaks and organizes events is writing and
illustrating a children's book about programming–and some of you sit and
criticize her motives, pedagogy, and presentation skills from your desks.
Bravo.

I generally don't swear, but some of you are jackasses.

~~~
Confusion
So downvote and move on. You're not adding anything on topic with this meta
comment and you could have foreseen it would hijack the top spot.

To add insult to injury, you're being drama-royalty: just because a few
nobodies level unfounded criticism at her is not reason to "quit HN for good".
Or you would've quit long ago. And instead of rubbing their face in their
dumbness by explaining to them how wrong their criticism is, you're just going
to stand on a soapbox and complain in general about how annoying the world is.
Do something about it! And no, what you have posted is not doing something
about it.

~~~
MartinCron
There's nothing wrong with voicing concern about the state of a community that
you care about.

~~~
Confusion
There is definitely something wrong with doing that with a top-level comment.
It distracts from the actual topic. You should only do that if you have a
_very_ good reason, such as noting the same behavior multiple times on
multiple topics.

You should certainly not do it within two hours after the article was posted,
to allow time for selfcorrection. That is the point of the voting system.

There is also something wrong with doing it in an appeal-to-emotion fashion,
threatening how this is 'almost making you leave'. You should clearly address
the problem at hand, citing examples and explaining the problem, instead of
hiding the actual problem that the fuss is about in the third paragraph.

Too little content, too much drama.

~~~
MartinCron
_You should only do that if you have a very good reason, such as noting the
same behavior multiple times on multiple topics_

A top level comment seems to be the only appropriate place to discuss the
overall tone or tenor of a conversation. Responding to each
dismissive/negative/unconstructive comment seems redundant and annoying.

~~~
Karunamon
How about you don't respond to tone or tenor at all? It's a bad argument on
the best of days (PG's hierarchy has that near the bottom, one step above
straight up ad hominem.)

It's a diversion _at best_. If you feel someone is being unpleasant, deal with
it. You needn't be pleasant to be right. If they're being unpleasant and
wrong, reply with why they're wrong, or alternatively downvote and move on. No
need for meta noise in any case.

~~~
MartinCron
I respectfully disagree with the idea that we should simply ignore
unpleasantness in the community. A healthy ecosystem is determined by a lot
more than mere factual correctness.

~~~
Karunamon
But it's also determined by a lot more than a veneer of politically-correct
pleasantness. I suggest that the best way to deal with such people is use the
downvote button. Complaining about tone is just so much noise... it adds
nothing to any discussion.

~~~
burntsushi
There is a very large gap between _not_ being a jackass and being politically
correct. The OP of this thread suggested the former.

~~~
Karunamon
I see very little jackassery in this thread. Certainly nothing worth the
amount of attention it's garnered.

I do, however, see a lot of useless, time-wasting, off topic tone arguments.

------
JunkDNA
This is wonderful. I think some of the commenters here are missing the point
by insisting that how they learned to code is how everyone should learn. If
we're going to get to a point where coding is a basic type of literacy like
math or reading (and I'm not necessarily saying I agree with that goal), then
you have to start small when kids are young. Really young kids need some kind
of framework. You can't just throw existing programming books at them and say,
"have at it". Do we throw high school level geometry books at kids to teach
them shapes? No, we give them all sorts of fun story books that incorporate
shapes (and colors, and numbers...) so that they get the basics. I suspect
this book is trying to fill in that early gap with respect to programming.

My youngest child could count to 10 at 18 months most likely because she
insists on me reading the infernal book "Deborah the Dozy Duckling" all the
time. It's about a duck that falls asleep while playing hide and seek. The
whole book is frankly awful and I hate reading it, but that one page where
Deborah's friends count to 10 turned out to grab her for some reason. Books
can be very, very powerful learning devices.

~~~
danabramov
Exactly!

I had a 1991-issued book called “Professor Fortran's Encyclopaedia“ in my
childhood. It introduced me to computers, modems, viruses and even several
BASIC commands in the form of a comic book with funny characters:

[http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Энциклопедия_профессора_Фортран...](http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Энциклопедия_профессора_Фортрана)

I did not learn programming _from_ it (it contained no actual code other than
a “hello world”), but it fired up my imagination and introduced me to
computery things. I didn't get to have an actual computer until five years
later, but when I finally got it, I got into programming immediately.

This kind of books is extremely underrepresented and I believe very valuable.

~~~
JunkDNA
For me personally it was a book about William Pasteur and his development of
the rabies vaccine. That book lit a fire in my mind for molecular biology
(though that was not a well known "thing" at the time). To this day I can
vividly recall the pictures of the "invisible army" marching through a sick
kid's blood vessels. They were drawn as soldiers with bayonets and they
stabbed the amorphous black blobby germs. A few years ago I located the book
on Amazon. Interesting to see I'm not the only one whose career was influenced
by this book: [http://amzn.com/0916392066](http://amzn.com/0916392066)

~~~
sanoli
Awesome reading your post! My dad bought this book at a Goodwill when I was a
kid, and I still remember how some of my friends thought the title was cheesy
(you know, at that age when we're already trying to be adults and macho), yet
my dad explained to me how it was actually very important, and how great and
important Pasteur and the great lineage of scientists were. Awesome.

------
enra
Seems like lot of comments have concerns with the programming part, so here is
my view why indirect approaches can be also important:

When we started Rails Girls with Linda, we saw that there were plenty of
programming workshops, books and education available. We didn't want to create
one more. Instead we focused on creating easy, one-day workshop to get you to
try and see what programming and technology is about, while also building your
first sample application and getting meet the local tech scene. After the
workshop we tell the people that you now have all the tools and contacts you
need for programming or creating something. It's up to you to learn more.

The important part was that all these people (probably thousands at this
point) got over the first step and of whom many wouldn't have touched
programming otherwise.

In the same way I don't think this book should be about teaching programming
that much, but more as creating stories and personalities for technologies to
peak interest. Children's interest usually leads to questions and to more
interest. You can then use that energy, answer the questions, teach more and
extend the workbook exercises to more challenging things. You can also use
those characters as a basis to explaining the technology world or talking
about what you do for living.

The point is that when you're trying to get a new demographic interested, you
need to find a way to get them over the first step, which is to get them
involved and getting them interested. The earlier this happens, the better.

Why project like this and the Goldie Box are important, is that they create a
story, a world and excitement around technology, for those who might miss or
haven't found their innate interest yet.

~~~
deveac
Thanks for this reply.

It seems a lot of "problem solvers" in this thread couldn't quite imagine the
problem you might be addressing, let alone the possibilities of the solution
you chose.

Edit: Looks really promising btw. Best of luck moving forward.

~~~
enra
Thank you.

(Just clarification that I'm not involved with this project but I have talked
about it with Linda in the past. So my views are my own views, and not
necessarily Linda's.)

------
jaimebuelta
When I was ~9, my parents bought me a book called "Wrote your own adventure
programs for your microcomputer" [1] (Well, the Spanish version [2]) I
remember reading and reading and reading it, and not understanding it... I
tried to replicate some of the ideas, but I think it was quite dense (and the
translation was not very good). The curious thing is that, when I properly
started learning programming in college, I remembered that book, and a lot of
things started make sense...

I say all this for two thing:

\- I think is brilliant that there are books specifically teaching basic
programming to kids, so more of them is great news

\- Making a good programming book at that age is challenging, so please let it
be good

This is, IMHO, an entry point, to give a taste of what programming is, so kids
can try themselves later in front of a computer. Not sure what the best
approach is, and I'm not convinced about the "story" approach, as I am not
sure if it's interactive enough (as showing exercises). But, hey, there should
be some options, and giving Linda's experience, I guess she has a better
knowledge about teaching than me. So I'm sure it will be great

So, kudos to Linda... ;-)

[1]
[http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3384/5718165821_2ce65d26fd_z.j...](http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3384/5718165821_2ce65d26fd_z.jpg)

[2]
[http://www.paraquenoseolviden.com/gallery2/v/electronica/pro...](http://www.paraquenoseolviden.com/gallery2/v/electronica/programa_aventuras/01.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)

~~~
leoc
Those old Usborne programming books were very nicely presented. /Adventure
Programs/ [http://www.worldcat.org/title/adventure-
programs/oclc/104011...](http://www.worldcat.org/title/adventure-
programs/oclc/10401114) and /Fantasy Games/
[http://www.worldcat.org/title/fantasy-
games/oclc/12824029](http://www.worldcat.org/title/fantasy-
games/oclc/12824029) had a nice balance between luring you with the game and
its setting, and drawing you into how it was implemented as a BASIC program.
The high-quality art supported both goals too. (You can see a zipped PDF of
/Adventure Games/ here:
[http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/books/pdf/Write_your_own_A...](http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/books/pdf/Write_your_own_Adventure_Programs.zip)
at this site for computer-book abandonware
[http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/books-
generic.htm](http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/books-generic.htm) .) Still,
there was a big old gulf between reading the colour section describing the
program and actually trying to understand the big program listing at the back.
/Introduction to Computer Programing/
[http://www.worldcat.org/title/introduction-to-computer-
progr...](http://www.worldcat.org/title/introduction-to-computer-
programming/oclc/20507511) is better in that respect, but unlike /Fantasy
Games/ and /Adventure Games/ it stopped short of presenting any program as
complex as a full interactive simulation.

~~~
jlees
Oh my goodness. I learnt to code using that book (Adventure Games)! It wasn't
the only one, and as you say the big program at the back is somewhat mystical,
but I remember it being instrumental in demystifying how a game was put
together.

------
fit2rule
Want to know how to teach kids to use computers? Give them an 8-bit machine
from the 80's, and all the books for the thing that you can find.

My kids have an old 8-bit machine .. and they love the thing. They can type in
their own BASIC programs from tons of sources, or load up a hundred games and
other educational apps from a disk that I know won't contain anything weird or
offensive .. on a machine with no access to the Internet. Its a wonderful
thing, hearing a 6-year old tell his 4 year old brother how to make a sound
eminate with just a few SOUND and PLAY commands ..

~~~
MartinCron
I've been thinking about the doing the exact same thing but have been afraid
that the kids would ignore it and go back to playing Minecraft.

~~~
fidotron
Minecraft, at least on Raspberry Pi, has a full API. It's likely a bit complex
to get going with, but you might find you can build a layer your kids would
find "useful".

[http://www.stuffaboutcode.com/2013/04/minecraft-pi-
edition-a...](http://www.stuffaboutcode.com/2013/04/minecraft-pi-edition-api-
tutorial.html)

~~~
MartinCron
I've been thinking about that, especially as my son keeps trying to do things
that the game doesn't support out of the box.

He set up an "honor system" store where people were expected to asynchronously
trade (by dropping) some commodity for some other commodity and got upset at
people "stealing".

Either this generation of kids will be the best citizens the world has ever
seen, or the worst.

~~~
scotty79
> Either this generation of kids will be the best citizens the world has ever
> seen, or the worst.

Both. Exactly as every past generation.

------
vanderZwan
I think it _could_ be a great way of repackaging programming education in
order to reach out to a different demographic, and we'll have to try out to
see, so I wish this project all the best. Having said that:

> The book will be hardcover, 8x8 inches and 32 pages. The activity book is 16
> pages and paperback.

I don't see how you could cover even just the basics mentioned on the
Kickstarter page in so few pages without going too fast (remember this is a
picture book). Maybe turning it into a series with different adventures
(topics) makes more sense?

~~~
brador
I like and support the intent, but I feel the execution will be a let down in
terms of usability.

How is it possible to teach even the basics of programming in 32 pages?

How would you explain a simple FOR loop to a child through a story?

~~~
Quarrelsome
..... Forgetful George was crying in the corner.

"What's wrong?" quizzed Ivy Iterator.

"It's too complicated" moaned George, he continued: "Mr Main has asked me to
deliver all of these invites to the birthday party but I keep forgetting which
people I've given invitations to. I gave Sam three invites and Polly hasn't
got one yet, it's no use! I can't remember which invite is which!"

"Don't worry" said Ivy, "lets work together to make this more simple! I'll
remember which invitation we're giving and which one is next, so all you have
to do is deliver the invite!"

George beamed, "Really? You can do that for me?"

"Sure thing George! They don't call me Ivy Iterator for nothing!"

~~~
tinco
So eh.. when is your book coming out?

(that's cryptic internet speak for, man I really like what you wrote, I can
totally imagine the next chapter being about George asking Ivy how she did
that!)

------
mratzloff
She's certainly very good at marketing, but based on the video and Kickstarter
page I wonder how educational the book will actually be. A couple of sample
pages would be helpful.

~~~
Confusion
Your comment does not explain why you doubt that the book will be educational.
So anyone that doesn't see a reason still won't see a reason.

    
    
      She's certainly very good at marketing
    

You're certainly very good at suggesting your criticism should be taken
seriously, because you preceded it with praise.

~~~
mratzloff
I'd say it's up to her to build her case, not me. There aren't any sample
pages, and what I saw focused more on story than programming concepts. They're
not mutually exclusive, but her video seemed to me basically an emotional puff
piece, a bit short on concrete details.

 _You 're certainly very good at suggesting your criticism should be taken
seriously, because you preceded it with praise._

I think you're over-thinking it.

------
Keyframe
Here I was open-minded as ever, prepared to see something great, also prepared
to scold at misogynistic crowd because there were hints in some comments that
there is such crowd here... and then I watched the video.

Everything that can go in other direction related to stereotypes and gender
roles - DID. It went so overboard that I think it's a part of marketing
strategy for it. This is just sad, because I think the product could've done
without it as well as it did.

~~~
idProQuo
I thought the same for a moment, until I realized I was basically watching a
kids show. The colors, the enthusiasm, the fast cuts, this video was made by
someone who knows how to get kids (we're talking 4-6 here) interested in
something. If that's the sensibility she brings to her storytelling and
illustrating, this book is going to be a wild success.

If it was a Kickstarter for an invention or a software product, I'd expect the
presenters to be a bit more sedate. But given what she's selling, I think
showcasing her personality helped make it clear that she's the right person
for this job.

~~~
Hansi
Had a similar initial reaction and came to the kid show conclusion too but it
didn't make it okay in my book. Loved the idea of the book(s) and it's well
put forward but her overacting this 'over the top happy go far' personality in
the video was just distracting from the point of the whole thing. The video is
targeting sponsors on kickstarter not kids who will read this. I think it
would have been better to tone it down a bit and then just go all outboard in
the promotional material after the book is done.

------
sethbannon
Such an important project. Resources like this could go a long way towards
solving some of the diversity problems we have in tech.

~~~
supersystem
Also this is a good example of why we should have diversity in the first
place.

~~~
throwawaycoder
Because men would never have thought of creating a programming book for kids?

[http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aprog...](http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aprogramming%20books%20for%20kids)

Or maybe because men can't draw as well as women?

Edit: probably I'll get downvoted for this so I'll just add that I think it's
good this book is being made. Can't hurt to try different things to get kids
interested. Just not sure why the gender comment was necessary.

~~~
supersystem
"Just not sure why the gender comment was necessary."

I said nothing about gender nor did I intend to, that was your assumption.

~~~
Confusion
Don't dodge criticism by retroactively changing the meaning of what you said.
We all know damned well the major lack of diversity in programming is the lack
of women.

Rather affirm that this is exactly part of what you were saying [1]. I'll one-
up you: indeed, the chance of a male writing such a book is much smaller than
the chance of a female writing such a book. Acting as if gender wouldn't
influence choice of content and style is ridiculous.

And before anyone jumps on my back: I'm telling it like it is, which implies
nothing about how I think that it should be.

[1] Why would 'diversity' be a good thing, if not for the fact that it results
in, you know, more diversity? Differences in the input result in differences
in the output.

~~~
throwawaycoder
"I'll one-up you: indeed, the chance of a male writing such a book is much
smaller than the chance of a female writing such a book. Acting as if gender
wouldn't influence choice of content and style is ridiculous."

So what aspects of it are female specific? Because women would be more likely
to worry about educating children?

Seriously, answer the question instead of relying on prejudice, please.

I'd consent that female heroines might be more likely for female authors
(didn't check, though), although in this case I suspect gender of author's
children might be more important.

Edit: I have to go further - sorry, but you made me think about it. Of course
the odds of a woman writing such a book are significantly smaller, simply
because there are much fewer female programmers than male programmers.

~~~
Confusion

      Of course the odds of a woman writing such a book are 
      significantly smaller, simply because there are much fewer 
      female programmers than male programmers.
    

If you are talking about P(book written by female|book written by programmer).
I was talking about P( _such a book_ written by female| _such a book_ written
by programmer).

Which implies I assume P(female programmer writing _such a_ book) / P(male
programmer writing _such a_ book) > P(male programmer writing book) / P(female
programmer writing book). Also P(female programmer writing _such a_
book|female programmer writing book) > P(male programmer writing _such a_
book|male programmer writing book)

    
    
      So what aspects of it are female specific?
    

None. There are aspects more likely to originate from a female. As you say:
female heroine. As you say: caring about education of children. You only need
to look at the gender ratio in primary school teachers to affirm the latter.

------
fidotron
Cynic hat on . . . I'm not sure I get this. Looks like an effort to promote an
illustrator more than actually achieve the stated aims.

The reasoning is simple: Alan Kay and others have repeatedly demonstrated kids
have a far greater aptitude for this stuff than is generally accepted. The
packaging in this manner isn't the problem, the problem is the programming
environments around today don't tend to do anything the kids are interested in
without overcoming significant hurdles. i.e. unless you can do graphics easily
forget it.

Back when I grew up in the 80s every 8 year old had to do Logo at school,
partly to teach maths, partly to teach programming constructs. This was the
part of the week almost everyone liked most. Make pictures, do maths, play
with robots - what's not to love?

So, hope that theory is wrong, but it sets off too many alarms for now.

~~~
deveac
_> So, hope that theory is wrong, but it sets off too many alarms for now._

Yes. The the alarms bells are far too numerous when the co-founder of Rails
Girls ("Our aim is to give tools and a community for women to understand
technology and to build their ideas."), and community manager at Codeacademy
expands her mission of education and inspiration to children via a book
tailored to them.

Alarm bells everywhere.

Thankfully, you've caught the issues and rang the (many) alarms before the
book has even been written. Very efficient.

~~~
smackfu
The last thing needed in these comments is sarcasm.

~~~
deveac
Thanks for jumping in. Any thoughts on hyperbole?

------
thrush
Recently Chicago announced that they are going to make Computer Science a core
subject for students K-12. And now this children's book is announced. It's
really an inspirational time for not only diversity, but general exposure of
CS to the mainstream. But seriously, what an amazing idea! Good luck with
Hello Ruby!

~~~
Shivetya
I bought into Robot Turtles and found it to have been fascinating. Yet, I had
real difficulty getting my ten year old nephew to even look at it and I wonder
about how well a book, cutesy as it is, will fare.

For the game, it was "for kids" (he meant his younger sister), it was a BORED
game, and did he mention it wasn't for little kids?

I am curious as to the format, book or board game, being relevant in this day

~~~
tehwalrus
This is aimed at 5-7 year olds. My nepheices, who are about that age, _love_
storybooks - they must have a thousand or so.

Kids abilities and interests differ quite significantly between 3 and 5, 5 and
7, and certainly between 5-7 and 10. (I didn't realise how much until I
watched these two growing up.)

------
robgering
Link to the actual project page on kickstarter:
[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lindaliukas/hello-
ruby](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lindaliukas/hello-ruby)

Her illustrations are really great.

------
guidobouman
If not truly educational, it's at least great to get kids curious about
programming, or more important: the mindset.

~~~
rsobers
I think this is the most important point. She's packaging the concept of
programming in a way that kids are likely to embrace (a la Sesame Street).

Whether the book is effective at teaching Ruby to kids remains to be seen, but
I'm pulling for her.

------
myzerox
This is a wonderful idea!

Was looking for exactly such a book for teaching my 7 and 8 year old brothers
the theoretical basics of programming after getting them to create their own
tiny games with MIT's Scratch.

As I'm also quite confident that Linda's execution will be of highest quality,
I pre-ordered the digital version.

------
jcoder
What an incredibly important book for little boys, to normalize learning from
women early on so they don't grow up to form stereotypes like "programming is
for men". Bravo!

~~~
ultimatedelman
this comment is asinine. please leave HN.

~~~
deveac
I believe the point he was making was essentially that because this book
eschews traditional stereotypes and cultural messaging about disciplines like
science and math being the purview of males, not only do girls benefit, but
_boys do as well_ by virtue of the fact that the values they are being taught
are less selectively biased.

Not only do young women win (obvious), but young men do as well as they are
less likely to both accept and perpetuate stereotypes.

It was a bit muddled, but that is how I read his argument.

~~~
shangxiao
I agree with the sentiment here, but please don't argue that boys benefit from
this by having the chance to be obedient little utilities.

~~~
deveac
_> but please don't argue that boys benefit from this by having the chance to
be obedient little utilities._

I wasn't arguing anything, merely clarifying the point of that poster.

 _But since you brought it up_ , the argument that boys benefit from being
exposed to values like acceptance of diversity, and stand to gain by _not_
being exposed to gender prejudice as they learn about the world around
them...well it is an argument I not only accept, but _embrace_.

What a cynical and devious re-framing of the poster's argument btw. Aren't you
something.

~~~
shangxiao
Here we go... the delicate genius has been insulted...

Your use of quoting and italicised text makes you look so much more
intelligent than me.

Btw, I wasn't reframing the poster's comment. That's what I was agreeing with,
but I bet you couldn't see from behind all the red.

~~~
deveac
Again, I think you may be confused. The poster's argument that you're claiming
to agree with is the same argument that you're taking issue with when you say:

 _> I agree with the sentiment here, but please don't argue that boys benefit
from this by having the chance to be obedient little utilities. but please
don't argue that boys benefit from this by having the chance to be obedient
little utilities._

That boys benefit is _precisely_ the argument the poster is making (your
framing them as "obedient little utilities" notwithstanding).

Additionally, the usage of italics simply indicates emphasis. It's one of the
most mundane aspects of written English. Nothing fancy about it, FYI.

------
cromulent
I'm really pleased about this. I've been dismayed by the computer education my
kids receive at school - Powerpoint basically. I've provided them with more,
but it's so welcome to have the materials from an educator.

Backed.

------
kriro
Good, good, good. More of this. Inspiring children to learn how to solve
problems is very important. I don't know if it'll work out or not but we
certainly need more people that try.

That robot-parent programming in the gym blog post was one of the more
inspiring posts I read in the last couple of years.

------
swang
After reading the comments here, I am glad none of them are writing this book.
If they had their way the kids would have gotten CLRS.

~~~
wyager
Yes, clearly the only way to teach things to children is with crayons and
bright colors.

------
gregors
Most people who know how to program attempt to teach their kids how to
program. That being said, we need many more resources of all kinds directed
towards teaching children. I hope this leads to 100 more programming
books/videos directed at children.

I think these are awesome too
[http://kidscodecamp.com/](http://kidscodecamp.com/)

------
tall
I expected more harsh comments based on all the meta comments.... I was
disappointed.

------
csense
Why Ruby? Python would be a much better choice -- for that matter, C or
assembly language [1] would be a better choice than Ruby! Here are the
problems with Ruby:

\- It is hard to get Ruby running on non-Linux systems.

\- Ruby programs are incredibly hard to understand because the Ruby language
is not _compact_ [2]

\- Rails is such a big part of the Ruby community, it is hard to find Ruby
programs that aren't Rails webapps. So anyone who becomes interested in Ruby
from the book, and searches online for more resources, will probably mostly
get Rails-related hits.

\- These hits will not just be useless to a beginner, but intimidating and
misleading. Web application programming is a poor area to direct beginners
into, because even the most trivial web application requires understanding a
dizzying array of complicated, interconnected ideas such networking, HTTP,
URL's, databases, template processing, HTML, browsers...

[1] I'm not trying to cast aspersions on anyone who started programming in
these languages, and I'm not saying it's impossible to start there even today.
I'm just saying that today there are much better choices available, such as
Python.

[2]
[http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html](http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch04s02.html)

~~~
zhemao
Despite the title, I don't think the book actually teaches Ruby. It seems to
be more about general programming concepts, with the main character being
named Ruby because a) the author herself likes Ruby, and b) Ruby is both the
name of a programming language and a common girl's name.

------
conductr
Hatin': most of the video she's fidgeting around and flirting with the camera,
anyone else find that odd?

~~~
deveac
Any thoughts on the project itself?

~~~
conductr
Sure, it sounds just fine.... I couldn't sit through the video though

I don't quite understand why kids need to be taught to want to build things.
Most kids already want to build things. They just need an easy interface to
accomplish a task and incrementally improve their creation.

Before legos, did we need a kid book about masonry? Of course not, we just
needed an easy and approachable type of block.

I'm not meaning to sound so negative. It's a good project with a worthy cause.
But, it's value is in the fact that parents want to impart their interests on
to their kids and will spend money on artsy little books. So, I'm just
questioning whether this is the right product to accomplish the stated cause.

~~~
manish_gill
> I don't quite understand why kids need to be taught to want to build things.
> Most kids already want to build things.

I'm reminded of this quote by Neil Degrasse Tyson in one of his speeches:
"Stop worrying about the kids! They're fine, they're already interested in
Space. It's the grown ups I'm worried about."

------
guscost
A children's book about programming is a great idea and it's very nice to see
the market encouraging this kind of work.

That said, I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable giving this particular book to a
young child. From the sketches it seems as if it will be light on fundamentals
like logic and data structures, and a bit heavy on Ruby-specific abstractions
and borderline political value judgements. I don't want to tell the younger
generation which application stack they should be using, to say nothing of the
completely out of place "Apple is selfish, Python is fascist" storyboards.

If you're interested in honest advice I'd remove the parts about what is wrong
with all the other technologies and substitute material related to the history
and engineering that made all of these tools possible. Mention how strings and
floats are encoded as bits, for example. Young children are not going to be
wondering _why_ they are learning Ruby instead of C or assembly, but they will
be wondering _how_ it does all that cool stuff.

~~~
zhemao
How on earth did you get any of that from the illustrations? I got the "Snow
Leopard is a loner" reference (hah), but I don't see anything deprecatory
towards Python or anything suggesting the book will actually teach Ruby syntax
or idioms as opposed to general programming concepts. Anyway, the references
to operating systems and programming languages are clearly meant for the
adults who are reading alongside their kids. I very much doubt a young child
with no prior exposure to computer programming will pick up on the jokes.

------
BuildTheRobots
in a similar vein, I highly recommend people check out "Mostly Lost: Lauren
Ipsum - A story about computer science and other improbable things." [1]

[1] [http://www.laurenipsum.org/mostly-
lost](http://www.laurenipsum.org/mostly-lost)

------
judk
Why do you need a kickstarter before you write a 50page book? Just set up a
preorder list, and bill when ready to ship the printed books.

~~~
nicolethenerd
Would you have heard of her book if she didn't have a kickstarter?

That's why she needs a kickstarter.

It's a marketing tool, possibly moreso than it's a crowdfunding tool.

~~~
cbeach
If everyone was to use Kickstarter in this way, Kickstarter would lose the
appeal it has for hosting niche / innovative projects. Diminishes the tool for
the rest of us.

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
I back a shitload of kickstarter projects that are basically 'help me collect
enough preorders to get a print run', and I'd much rather kickstarter be a hub
for that kind of thing than another bottle opener / wallet / watch design.

------
11001
I'm surprised there aren't many books like that already in English. It was a
Russian children's book that spiked my interest in programming when I was a
kid. I didn't even have a computer, and neither did my school at that point. I
don't remember the details too well, but it was basically about some boy in
some imaginary land learning about algorithms, computer viruses, etc. in a
really fun way. There were tons of very clear analogies, like algorithm and a
cooking recipe.

------
nicolethenerd
One line of code on the whole page, and the syntax is wrong. (Need quotes on
"hi computer")

But besides that, I think this has the potential to be great... but I honestly
didn't get much from the video about the content of the book. It's a story,
and it's about Ruby. How? What does it teach? How does it encourage kids to
interact with technology, or program computers, or whatever the goal is? All I
saw were a bunch of pretty pictures and a promise that kids will learn
something.

------
Adkron
This sounds like a fantastic book. I only wish that I had thought about this
before. I want one for my kids and for my niece and nephew.

It is sad that both sides of the gender gap here have decided to make this
book about gender. No one made this article out about people and they great
things we can accomplish. I'm disappointed.

------
vezzy-fnord
I think children will be better off reading __why 's (poignant) guide_
instead, as it will teach them both the basics of common programming and give
them a primer in avant-garde literature.

That or stop treating kids like kids, give them some standard and classic
books, bootstrap an environment and let them dive in.

~~~
ahuth
Not sure about everyone else here, but I'm definitely not smart enough to
learn anything about programming from _why.

_why's (poignant) guide is awesome and entertaining... but I'm not learning
programming from it.

------
denizozger
Just donated. Programming should be thought as early as possible and should be
in the curriculums. This project servers the same vision. I don't know if the
book will be structured properly or will have a great impact on kids, and I
don't care, I support this vision.

------
sh1mmer
This looks like a great project!

I'd also remind people about HN user aristus' Lauren Ipsum book
([http://www.laurenipsum.org/](http://www.laurenipsum.org/)) for kids. Every
one you buy he donates one to schools, etc.

------
mattgibson
Cool. Clearly there's a huge demand for this, so good to see it's being done.
It occurred to me that this may be just as effective (maybe more?) in
promoting coding for women who have kids, rather than just the kids
themselves.

------
chrisrh
Quality of execution is a big uncertainty but this is a wonderful idea.

------
Grue3
But Ruby is bad for children (and is known as the preferred language of
brogrammers/women haters). Read Land of Lisp instead.

------
JoeAltmaier
Typically a publisher would like to see a sample chapter or a few sample pages
before investing. That would be nice here.

------
1angryhacker
it would also be nice to see books and resources for children going up to
about 14/15\. It would be a shame to see a gap in their education when they
can really get going.

------
notastartup
She is adorable! I was mesmerized by her than the message. I I was too
distracted by her overall cuteness. Is this too "boyish" to admit?

Overall, I think the book idea is for a good cause, regardless of the author.

I also think this comic was very good too for learning ruby. too bad the
author disappeared mysteriously.

[http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-
guide/book/chapter-1.htm...](http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-
guide/book/chapter-1.html)

------
whatevsbro
For your consideration: Her last name means "slippery" in Finnish. She's
puzzlingly good at pretending to smile and acting cutesy. Both are far from
natural for a Finn. (Source: I'm a Finn)

~~~
deveac
_Shhh._ Here you go:

www.reddit.com

~~~
whatevsbro
You know, if you really think about what kind of people this most _civilized_
of discussion forums finds desirable among its ranks, you'll realize that
self-important snobs don't make the cut.

Oh, and I bet you're on Reddit too, just like most people here.

------
1angryhacker
a boys one would be great too, screw equality let's just get as many kids
programming as possible.

~~~
MartinCron
What? It's not for girls, it's for "children". I'm not a doctor, but I'm
pretty sure that boys are children too.

~~~
1angryhacker
then why is the top comment banging on about solving problems for equality.

~~~
MartinCron
Because roughly 50% of children _are_ girls, while less than 50% of
programmers are. I just backed this to give to my son _and_ my daughter.

~~~
1angryhacker
...so if it's targeted at children, 50% of children will take it up, thus the
ratio of male:female programmers will remain the same, there'll just be more
of them.

The book is aimed at girls. It would be nice to think that children were not
conditioned by gender stereotypes at the age of 6/7, but unfortunately they
are.

~~~
MartinCron
The current gender ratio is the result of decades of gender stereotyping that
things like math and science and programming were "for boys".

I'm going to believe the author when she says that this is for _children_. I
just don't buy the idea that boys can't enjoy stories with female leads. Look
at Brave or The Hunger Games. My son loves those.

