
“Ticket Bot” Act Passed by Congress; Heads to President - tantalor
http://www.playbill.com/article/ticket-bot-act-passed-by-congress-heads-to-president
======
spangry
Something about this doesn't seem right.

Isn't ticket scalping just a symptom of some deeper issue? I'm not a US-
resident or a concert goer. But based on the gripes I've read, isn't scalping
just a natural consequence of the market dominance of a supply-restricting
monopolist (one that engages in borderline abusive consumer practices)?

~~~
cheald
Scalping is just arbitrage. The core issue is that the retail price of the
tickets is lower than the market price, which is probably high because the
supply is limited (and probably artificially so by Ticketmaster et al).

~~~
benchaney
This isn't really the whole story. It is only profitable to scalp if prices
are kept artificially low by the original vendor. Usually this is because the
want to be able to claim they sell out more frequently than they would under
regular conditions. If the original vendor optimizes for profit, the problem
disappears.

~~~
Tempest1981
Which leads to the next problem: teenagers can no longer afford to see a
concert. They take out their frustration on the artist.

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midnitewarrior
Step 1 - Get a bunch on foreigners working for you to log in through a US
proxy and order the tix manually.

Step 2 - Resell for profit.

Way to go Congress, you've just created a new industry that is marginally less
profitable than the old one, and involves hiring foreign people in foreign
countries.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _Step 2 - Resell for profit._

From the bill itself:

> _(1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful
> for any person—_

> _(A) to circumvent a security measure, access control system, or other
> technological control or measure on an Internet website or online service
> that is used by the ticket issuer to enforce posted event ticket purchasing
> limits or to maintain the integrity of posted online ticket purchasing order
> rules; or_

> _(B) to sell or offer to sell any event ticket in interstate commerce
> obtained in violation of subparagraph (A) if the person selling or offering
> to sell the ticket either—_

> _(i) participated directly in or had the ability to control the conduct in
> violation of subparagraph (A); or_

> _(ii) knew or should have known that the event ticket was acquired in
> violation of subparagraph (A)._

Unless they outsource even the selling to foreign countries, at which point
what good are they as a middleman anyway?

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shakna
Actually enforcing this seems to be a sizeable technical challenge.

~~~
tw04
How so? If you're a scalper how are you going to sell hundreds or thousands of
tickets without an easy to find web front?

You don't stop scalpers by "fixing the selling motion", you fix it by putting
the people who violate it into jail and/or bankrupt them and make it
unprofitable.

~~~
shakna
> You don't stop scalpers by "fixing the selling motion", you fix it by
> putting the people who violate it into jail and/or bankrupt them and make it
> unprofitable.

That approach seems to have worked so well with the War on Drugs, too, hasn't
it?

~~~
tw04
That's about the worst analogy I think you could possibly make. The war on
drugs is a failure for a number of reasons, primarily among them because the
drugs themselves are illegal, and users are prosecuted. If they simply made
the distribution illegal, it would be a huge step forward but not remotely
like this.

You don't buy drugs to get into an event that has people checking your entry
at the gate. There's no serial number on your drugs. There's no entity you
have to go exchange your drugs with for some other item/good/event.

------
akeck
Another solution: "Thank you for purchasing this license to view Hamilton.
This is NOT a ticket. This is a non-transferable license to view the
performance of Hamilton on 2016-12-21 at 9:00 pm in-person. This license
constitutes a contractual agreement between the original purchasing party and
the producers of Hamilton. By purchasing this license, the purchasing party
agrees to be bound by this license. Only the original purchasing party may use
this license to view Hamilton... etc." ;-D

~~~
tw04
So what happens when you can't make the concert? You just eat the entire cost,
you can't sell it to a friend?

~~~
hehheh
Yep. However, fear not! We'll sell you Concert Ticket Protection Insurance for
the low fee of only 15% of the ticket's face value.

~~~
akeck
Exactly! -_-

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Tempest1981
More on solving/bypassing captcha:
[https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/may/21/ticket-
touts-p...](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/may/21/ticket-touts-
powerful-software-assist-widely-available)

------
jamessun
Would this legislation apply to bots used to purchase goods and services?

Would these "ticket bots" simply move the bot outside the U.S.?

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _Would this legislation apply to bots used to purchase goods and services?_

I'm not a lawyer, but the text is available here:
[https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-
bill/318...](https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-
bill/3183/text)

It looks like it's only for tickets to events.

> _Would these "ticket bots" simply move the bot outside the U.S.?_

The bill forbids a person to use such a bot; you can host it in orbit if you
want, because it's not the bot itself that's outlawed, but the use of the bot
to circumvent purchase limitations.

~~~
lxmorj
Right, but foreign persons could do it, no?

~~~
pavel_lishin
Same as now, yes.

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raybb
I think this is generally good but I always wonder why sale prices of tickets
are much lower than online scalpers can still them for?

~~~
zigzigzag
It's generally bad and a good example of dumb over-regulation. I await stories
about the unintended side effects of the BOTS Act in the coming years.

Ticket scalping exists for two reasons:

1) The sorts of people who put on public entertainment in size-limited venues
are generally left-leaning and do not like the idea of their audience
consisting solely of very rich people. This sentiment is fine, but ...

2) As such events typically take place in big cities and modern populations
are very large, demand for these entertainment events then radically outstrips
supply, meaning the _actual_ natural market price of the tickets rises very
fast. The entertainers have a collective freakout and insist that the tickets
are sold far below the correct price for social justice reasons, converting
the sales of such tickets into a simple race.

Having deliberately mispriced their tickets, the only way punters can
distinguish themselves and get a ticket is by being faster than the other
punters. And that's a contest machines will always win.

There are lots of solutions that don't involve Congress. Like, tickets could
be allocated through a lottery process where entering requires ID
verification. That would make it obvious that getting a ticket is a random
process.

~~~
woodruffw
Both of your points are confabulated, which is unfortunate since I agree with
your ultimate conclusion (i.e., that this act's intended goal could be
accomplished without legislation).

1) Theater audiences consist largely of _tourists_ , at least in New York.
They're spending vacation money, but they're no wealthier than the average
American on vacation. Taking out the tourist audience, the city subsidizes the
theater district via public school trips (I was the recipient of more than one
of these) and other public arts programs.

2) Demand doesn't "radically" outstrip supply, at least not for the vast
majority of on-Broadway shows. For most, the two are about equal, and prices
reflect this ($30-$50 if you buy at TKTS or reasonably in advance). The
_exception_ is blockbusters like Hamilton and The Book Of Mormon (if that's
still the case) which are, again, boosted largely by tourist sales.

~~~
zigzigzag
I was talking about the general case where scalping happens, not particular
shows in New York. If no scalping is happening for those shows, then I guess
you're right that supply and demand balance there.

