
Apple fans returning new MacBook Pros with Core i9 - dhd415
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-fans-returning-macbook-pros-154205304.html
======
wilsonnb2
Headline: "Apple fans are returning their new MacBook Pros that cost a minimum
of $2,800 because they can't reach the advertised speeds"

Actual data: two Reddit comments that say they're going to return their
MacBooks

What's wrong with the headline "Youtuber finds New MacBook Pros Not Performing
as Advertised" or "Youtuber finds Cooling Issues with High Performance
MacBook"?

It's basically useless to read headlines from most online news sources these
days.

~~~
conatus
The whole piece does have a general hot air feeling to it...

~~~
sixothree
Something these macbooks produce a distinct lack of..?

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aksss
They could just rebrand it as a powerful tool designed for arctic climate
research.

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jiveturkey
i've decided to cancel my order (still 2 weeks out) and instead get the i7. so
now you have 3 data points.

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greglindahl
Discussion on a similar article from yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17567729](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17567729)

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394549
What's up with Apple? Seems to me like they should have just dropped the i9
option altogether, since they couldn't make it work. It just further torpedoes
their fading reputation for being able to build top-notch hardware.

~~~
close04
They are re-living their 2003-2004 period when the IBM PPC G5 CPU was way too
hot and power hungry to put in the PowerBook and it needed water cooling in
the PowerMac. Back then their solution was to switch to Intel CPUs. Now it's
probably going to be to switch to in-house designed ARM CPUs.

~~~
rusk
_> in-house designed ARM CPUs._

What could possibly go wrong!

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close04
With the CPU design or the transition to a new ISA? Lots of things can go
wrong at any time even by doing nothing. But Apple does have a team of pretty
good engineers that managed to design what's probably the fastest (best?) ARM
cores on the market, and with good enough perf/Watt numbers. So I doubt their
biggest hurdle will be to design a CPU.

It will be to split the "MacOS" ecosystem in 2 and maintain two branches for
x86 and ARM. And while they also have a team of pretty good software engineers
with x86 and ARM experience they are already having major quality control
problems lately. Having to maintain a dual ISA MacOS will be a challenge. Then
they have to provide the legacy compatibility in order to convince people to
buy into something with little to no support for most of what's out there
today.

But you know... we could use some diversity in this space. I wish them all the
best.

~~~
close04
@394549, I don't doubt that they can do it, as I was also saying a couple of
comments above this one. But at what price? The difference is that now they
have big QA issues _before_ having to maintain the 2 branches. Their software
(and possibly the software team) a decade and a half ago when they were moving
to Intel was in a lot better shape. Unless I'm looking at this through
nostalgia goggles. :)

~~~
rusk
They were also moving to a well established architecture from their own
bespoke one and now they’re going the other way ...

~~~
close04
ARM is a well established ISA. The customization Apple might bring to the CPU
architecture will make no difference to a user as long as the compatibility is
there.

The problem is that as established as ARM is they really don't have a
meaningful presence in the desktop/laptop ecosystem. You have probably tens of
thousands of apps for the mobile space but even if Apple magically adapted
them for a non-touchscreen, keyboard and touchpad world the vast majority
still won't cater to the regular or professional user wanting to buy a laptop,
not a glorified tablet. And that's a hard sell. Why am I buying a MacBook if
all I get is an iPad with a keyboard? And don't get me wrong, having used both
iPads and CoreM ultraportables (Apple or otherwise) the iPad offered the
better experience more often than not. But if I compare it to the regular CPU
it just can't compete. The productivity with mobile apps is not where it
should be to convince a normal buyer to switch, let alone a more demanding
user.

~~~
rusk
_> The problem is that as established as ARM is they really don't have a
meaningful presence in the desktop/laptop ecosystem_

Yes. Not established. That’s what I said.

~~~
close04
"Not established" and "not established in a specific segment" are two vastly
different things. So no, most definitely I didn't say what you said, or what
you think I said. ;)

~~~
rusk
Aye, but you said what I meant.

Look at another way - Apple moved from PowerPC to Intel. It's not that
Motorola ISA weren't well established but they simply weren't as well
established and didn't have access to the same mindshare in terms of high
performance hardware and software engineering.

So in this sense it's a step back the other way - except for perhaps Intel
seem to be stuck in the mire these days.

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bluedino
It's not the CPU - it's the combination of the GPU and CPU. The CPU only
benchmarks run without throttling

[https://www.geekbench.com/blog/2018/07/macbook-pro-
mid-2018-...](https://www.geekbench.com/blog/2018/07/macbook-pro-
mid-2018-throttling/)

~~~
valarauca1
Geekbenchmark runs it tests in bursts with short delays between them to allow
for the SoC to dissipate heat. They implemented that so laptops and cellphones
wouldn't overheat, or thermally throttle while running the benchmark.

[https://www.xda-developers.com/geekbench-ceo-fireside-
chat-p...](https://www.xda-developers.com/geekbench-ceo-fireside-chat-
pt-1-64-bit-mobile-throttling-scores-design-a-benchmark-and-more/)

I get that Geekbenchmark is extremely accessible, but it is not rigorous.

Citing a benchmark that's designed to avoid thermal issues, as proof a chip
doesn't have thermal issues is just bad.

~~~
dullin
The article in question above is from the geekbench team compiling their
geekbench suite over and over to force the overheating issue.

The blog post is not about benchmarking with geekbench at all.

John Poole found that using only CPU bounds tasks (compiling) wasn't that bad
for the thermals.

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limonkufu
Surely, Apple saw these issues in their internal tests. I don't understand how
Apple (or any other company that does something similar to this) decides to
release the product knowing all of the issues beforehand.

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ricardobeat
Why is the Aero 15x so much faster? It seems to be an i7 with a slower SSD.

~~~
JudasGoat
The specs show it available up to gtx1070 maxq which sounds pretty powerful
for 15".

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newscracker
Meta: Can the link be changed? The one right now is:

[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/finance/n...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/finance/news/apple-
fans-returning-macbook-pros-154205304.html)

It looks like a (AMP) copy of a (AMP) copy of a web page. Just
[https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/finance/news/apple-fans-
return...](https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/finance/news/apple-fans-returning-
macbook-pros-154205304.html) or [https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/apple-
fans-returning-macb...](https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/apple-fans-
returning-macbook-pros-154205304.html) would work.

~~~
tjoff
Yahoo uses oath and doesn't adhere to GDPR. The HN link does, though I dislike
AMP anything is better than oath.

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AndersSandvik
Lol, AMP showing a google.com domain. Why are sites opting to send traffic
through Google?

~~~
sgarrity
A Google-AMP version of a story published on Yahoo Finance syndicated from
Business Insider. What a time to be alive!

~~~
mortenjorck
A Google-AMP version of a story published on Yahoo Finance syndicated from
Business Insider about a Reddit thread, no less. Turtles all the way down.

~~~
penagwin
A Hacker News post about a Google-AMP version of a story published on Yahoo
Finance syndicated from Business Insider about a Reddit thread.

There are a lot of turtles!

