
As crime dries up, Japan’s police hunt for things to do (2017) - tareqak
https://www.economist.com/asia/2017/05/18/as-crime-dries-up-japans-police-hunt-for-things-to-do
======
2bitencryption
I was in a massively busy market street in Dotonbori, Osaka, at night.

A police whistle shrieked, and I turned and saw a police officer absolutely
_booking it_ through the crowd, shoving through people, shouting at some
perpetrator.

My American-cultured brain thought, "This is it, someone's about to die." It
seriously freaked me out.

I watched, and he caught up to... a guy on a bike. It was a no-biking zone. He
gave the guy a ticket.

~~~
artsyca
Dude I recently had a run-in with the police over a bicycle, dang! It was an
abandoned bike that had been in a field for several days and I was watching it
rust to bits as I was walking my dog

So I did what any self-respecting Canadian would do, I decided to be a hero..
I wheeled it home and showed it to my wife she says 'you better do something
with it' so a day passes and we show it to my mother in law and she decides to
call the local police to come get it

Lo and behold they show up but right away the guy starts going at me 'why did
you take another person's property?' treating me like a criminal i.e. guilty
until proven innocent. He makes me sit in the back of his car, separates me
from my mother in law, asks for my identification, takes my passport, my
employment, the works

They even called the detective squad and three guys roll up in a van

It was some kind of interrogation, I felt like Otto Warmbier. He asked every
question under the sun, apparently he thought my mother in law was calling to
report _me_ for stealing a bike and he explained that it was no different than
a bloody knife or a stolen purse. I decided to take the comical side and
laughed my ass off when he told me that. It was more about him saving face to
his command at that point

I couldn't believe the ludicrous nature of the whole deal. My only saving
grace was that I'm married to a Japanese national so that got me off the hook,
along with an intervention by my father in law and the local member of city
government who lives down the street, otherwise I may have gone missing and
ended up deported for all I know

Bicycle crime is real dude and I can totally understand why asian people
suffer from such glaring groupthink and disdain for helping anyone -- no good
deed goes unpunished for real

~~~
nihonde
As a fellow gaijin in Japan, you seem like you’ve learned nothing about living
here. The whole tone of your story is so smug and obnoxious.

The reason that even minor crimes (stealing a bicycle) are taken seriously is
that letting small things slide is the beginning of an erosion of the rule of
law. You should probably learn your lesson and leave things that aren’t yours
alone. Furthermore, the fact that you think your political connections got you
off the hook tells us everything we need to know about your exceptionalist
outlook.

People like you make the police skeptical of foreigners like myself who bother
to learn and play by the rules out of respect for our host country.

~~~
socialdemocrat
I think you are post rationalizing. Places like Norway, where I live have far
more chill police and would let smaller things slide. Yet Norway is about as
safe as Japan.

Most difference between crime in Norway and Japan is more likely down to
Norway having much larger immigrant population from poorer countries.

I think your attitude easily ends up excusing police states. Japanese justice
system is highly questionable. Almost nobody ever gets acquitted in the
justice system, and prison is rather harsh. Norway gets away with low crime
despite (or because of) probably the worlds most liberal prison system.

Don't get me wrong. I admire a lot about Japan, but I think you easily fall
into the trap of thinking that everything great about Japan is directly the
result of something bad.

I would argue more important factor causing law crime in Japan is much the
same as in Nordic countries. Low levels of inequality. How people are
socialized. Stricter gun laws.

And let us not forget that the average age is high in Japan. Older people
commit a lot less crime.

~~~
d0100
> Stricter gun laws.

In a country of literal ninjas and samurais, this is the most inconsequential
of all the reasons you gave.

~~~
tyrust
I assume you're joking, but this is sorta racist and also dismissive of the
value of stricter gun regulations.

~~~
albatruss
The value of stricter gun regulations is actually minimal - we already have
the effective ones in place. Take a look at the studies for yourself, e.g.

[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309755075_Does_Gun_...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309755075_Does_Gun_Control_Reduce_Violent_Crime)

~~~
tyrust
Sorry I don't really have time to get into this.

I looked very briefly at that study. It compares US cities to other US cities
using data from 1990. I would be more interested in how the US stacks up
against other countries that don't have to act within the limitations of the
Second Amendment. More recent data would probably be valuable as well.

------
DoreenMichele
I've lived on an American military base with a crime rate so low that the
military police spent months determined to track down some guy who robbed the
liquor store because it was the most exciting thing that had happened in ages.

There can be a real downside to police officers overzealously looking for
someone to bust just to have something to do.

~~~
closeparen
Suburban cop favorites:

\- Dogs in parks

\- Dogs off leash in dogs-allowed parks

\- Dog poop infractions

\- People in parks after dark

\- Teenage parties

\- Curfew enforcement

\- Horribly bungling the case when something real and tragic does happen

~~~
RealityVoid
"Curfew enforcement" \- is that actually a thing? What is this? Martial law?

~~~
labster
Until you reach age 18 in the US you have very limited civil rights. Freedom
of speech, assembly, bearing arms, due process, and privacy are restricted. On
the up side for kids, the amusement park tickets are cheaper and the prisons
are slightly nicer.

And in the US, parents would face criminal charges for things Japanese parents
routinely do, like sending their kids to the store alone. Unfortunately the US
is filled with plusungood sexcriminals (citation needed) and weapons (price of
freedom) so we can’t do it in the land of freedom.

~~~
cjslep
Curfew is a city or county ordinance.

Charlotte, NC or Mecklenburg County curfew age was 16 and under when I was
growing up.

Also the 17 year old age restriction for "R" rated movies is a suggestion. I
hope Regal Cinemas as a business continues dying off for changing their policy
to be 18+ when I was 17, and then reverting their policy back to 17 when I
turned 18. My stepfather would buy a ticket, escort all of us into the
theater, walk back out to the ticket box, demand a refund for his ticket, and
leave us to watch. Silliest company policy ever.

------
bjourne
That is a common trend in all kinds of enforcement jobs. As the number of rule
breakers gets lower, the rules get tougher to compensate. For police officers,
security guards and bouncers it means that they will intervene in less and
less serious offences. But it appears it works the same in other kinds of
professions too. For example, dental health is improving around the world so
dentists are spending more of their time with cosmetic issues because fewer
patients have holes in their teeth. It's even the same in software
development. What do you do when there are no major bugs to fix? You spend
your time fixing all the minor irrelevant issues!

I think the empirical evidence is soundly against the idea of people being
lazy. People will always find stuff to do because almost no one likes rolling
their thumbs all day.

~~~
rodgerd
> What do you do when there are no major bugs to fix? You spend your time
> fixing all the minor irrelevant issues!

Frameworks, frameworks everywhere.

~~~
BigJono
Nothing kills time as effectively as a nice casual game of dependency jenga.

------
spinach
If they cared about women they would find lots of crime. Particularly on
trains, so many women get groped and harassed.

[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/06/22/national/media-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/06/22/national/media-
national/embracing-social-media-protect-others-danger-japan/)

~~~
tdxcbkifxx
Since when is "harassing" someone a crime?

~~~
qtplatypus
It is when the harassment is of sexual nature.

~~~
mruts
Actually all harassment is a crime in the US. Just insulting people and saying
lewd things isn’t harassment, though.

~~~
sterwill
I don't think this is true. There are 50 states, each with different laws and
definitions of acts and crimes. I am not aware of any federal anti-harassment
laws except for those governing workplaces, and even those do not consider all
harassment to be illegal.

------
lovemenot
Almost every evening a couple of officers stand at the end of my street in
Tokyo. There they can easily catch motorists making an illegal right turn. The
rule exists only at certain times of day making it very hard for motorists to
comply.

The police know this and just wait there like a bear fishing for spawning
salmon.

It seems so pointless. If the right turn is really a problem then mark it in
such a way as to make compliance obvious. If not, then just allow it and stop
enforcement.

~~~
exhilaration
My very first ticket, after I got my license in the mid-90's, was for the same
thing -- but in Manhattan.

~~~
dnr
You lived in or near NYC and didn't know that right-on-red is illegal in the
whole city, at all times? There's no possible confusion there (except maybe
near the borders of the outer boroughs, but Manhattan is an island so pretty
hard to claim you didn't know you were in the city).

~~~
throwaway082729
Where did they say that they lived in NYC? Only that they got caught there.

~~~
dnr
That's why I said "or near". I figured it was common knowledge if you drive
anywhere around the area. But it's true that it's not signed anywhere (that I
know of), so if you're driving from farther away, it would be easy to get
caught.

~~~
throwaway082729
I lived in upstate NY and had no idea about this rule, and I visited NYC
often.

------
andrewstuart
End the war on drugs and alot of the police work will vanish.

In the U.S. they'll need to sort out the opiate crisis which frankly is weird
to see anyway because it's the corporations who are the drug barons.

~~~
newfriend
Drugs are highly illegal in Japan, yet there is no major drug crisis -- which
seems to indicate that it's a cultural problem, and not related to enforcement
and illegality. It could even be argued that extremely harsh punishments for
drug related crimes could act as a deterrent.

~~~
socialdemocrat
Yes culture is a major part of it, which is why you need to compare similar
countries. Among western countries those with more liberal drug laws tend to
have less problems. Compare e.g. the Netherlands, Switzerland and Portugal
with the US.

In my native Norway, punishment for almost anything is quite mild including
drug related crime. Yet drug usage is much lower than in the US.

We are all more similar to the US than Japan, being all derived from European
culture.

------
NamTaf
They could crack down on the touts fronting tourist scams in areas like
Shinjuku? I'm sure there's a lot of less visible crime that occurs (in all
cities around the world, not just in Japan), but it's harder to solve so it
gets overlooked for easier, more straightforward crimes that return a better
bang-for-buck.

~~~
magduf
What are these tourist scams?

~~~
NamTaf
Touts (generally African immigrants) aggressively try to encourage you to come
grab a drink with them, trying to be all friendly and acting shocked that you
might not want to come with them when they want to shout you a drink in a bar.
Once in the bar (who's in on it), the scam ranges from charging you way too
much to buy ladies drinks, through to drugging and robbing you before dropping
you home.

They'll never get physical with you beyond getting really close in your
personal space and trying to shake your hand, but if you don't acknowledge
them and walk past them then they often don't even do that. Their target is
young white male tourists with lots of cash who wanna get drunk and party with
ladies.

[https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/tokyo-warning-specific-
typ...](https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/tokyo-warning-specific-types-of-
nightlife-unsafe-for-travelers.44284/)

~~~
magduf
Good to know, thanks!

------
hanoz
Heaven save us from law makers and enforcers with too much time on their
hands.

~~~
wst_
You would have to have society that creates such situation in the first place.
Honestly, I'd rather choose that kind of society among others.

------
mc32
Tell you what. Check on the elderly sole survivors who don’t have anyone
checking up on them. Bring some community to them. Help them with their
emergencies, things they have difficulty executing.

~~~
andrewstuart
That's the job of a social worker, a different kind of government employee.

~~~
cperciva
It _is_ a different job, but should it be? Why can't they be cross-trained?

In Vancouver, the police are on the front lines of helping the homeless / drug
addicted / mentally ill population (there's a very large overlap between the
three groups) access shelters and treatment.

~~~
magduf
I can't speak to Japanese police, but in America you wouldn't want our police
doing any kind of social work. The police here are just bullies who have been
given badges and guns, and are exactly the wrong personality for any job that
requires compassion. Moreover, they're extremely trigger-happy and are well-
known to shoot people who are having mental health episodes.

------
a_c
Being bombarded with Hong Kong news on Bloomberg [1], I am thinking perhaps
Hong Kong took the other extreme. Having one of the lowest homicide rate in
the world [2], the police is apparently turning against its citizen.

[1]
[https://www.bloomberg.com/search?query=hong%20kong](https://www.bloomberg.com/search?query=hong%20kong)
[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)

------
gen3
Initially I thought this was really good, and it really is.

I will say, some of the crimes investigated seem to be a waste of time and
money. for example > In one recent case, she says, they arrested a group of
people who had shared the cost of renting a car, deeming the arrangement an
illegal taxi.

and

> One woman describes how five officers crowded into her cramped apartment
> after she reported her knickers being swiped from a clothesline.

I hope there has been a push to use this manpower in other, better ways (such
as how the article mentioned they were better handling domestic abuse).

------
roland35
Reading the "police blotters" in my quiet town's weekly paper is one of my
favorite traditions.

This week the police intervened when the wife played music the husband didn't
like, so he unplugged the radio. The police did not charge anyone since there
was no physical violence...

Also some loose change was stolen from a car.

~~~
thomasjudge
The Flathead Beacon has some good ones too. Recent: July 18: "10:08 a.m. A
Kalispell resident called 911 because she had read in the police blotter that
law enforcement rescued a ferret and she was curious if she could have it.
Police informed her that they did not keep the ferret."

[https://flatheadbeacon.com/section/police-
blotter/](https://flatheadbeacon.com/section/police-blotter/)

------
doodliego
They should create some squads to work on cold case files.

------
grepgeek
> Register to read this article in full: Sign up

I don't want to create a new account to read an article? Is there any other
option to read this article?

I know one could say that if I don't want to create an account like the
website wants, then I have no right to read the article. Yes, I understand
that. I respect the website's owners' right to enforce access to the article
however they please and I am okay to not read the article if there is truly no
other way to read it without creating an account.

~~~
pardavis
[https://outline.com/www.economist.com/asia/2017/05/18/as-
cri...](https://outline.com/www.economist.com/asia/2017/05/18/as-crime-dries-
up-japans-police-hunt-for-things-to-do)

~~~
grepgeek
This is cool. I wonder how outline.com manages to get past the sign-up wall.

------
fsurfer
Unfortunately, this also means they can force "confessions" from people
because they have little to do.
[https://www.vox.com/world/2015/12/13/9989250/japan-crime-
con...](https://www.vox.com/world/2015/12/13/9989250/japan-crime-conviction-
rate)

------
roadbeats
The article is missing a very important answer: do people get discriminated in
the system after jail or prison time ? how fast do system organize court for a
recently arrested “criminal”? These are realy important to judge the actions
of the police.

------
spinach
If they cared about women they would find lots of crime. Particularly on
trains, so many women get groped and harassed.

------
gwbas1c
The funniest thing I saw in recent memory was some Japanese tourists (in the
US) break a law.

They brought a bag lunch of sushi to the zoo, and sat down as a family to eat
it at a picnic table. Shortly after they started eating their sushi, the
parents proudly started drinking 24oz cans of Sapporo.

Yes, the Japanese tourists were violating American drinking laws by drinking
in public!

(And, yes, I know that what they did is perfectly legal and culturally
appropriate in Japan!)

------
Animats
(2017)

------
nkkollaw
They should come to Europe, then. Plenty of crime here.

------
mevile
Can anyone read this article? It's behind a paywall for me.

~~~
jiberwarrior
You can quickly reload the page, and stop it before the JS for the paywall
loads (esc on pc) The HTML loads but not the js that implements the paywall.

~~~
kalleboo
If you have Safari's reader mode set to activate automatically, it will also
kick in and grab the content before the JS engages the paywall.

~~~
xhgdvjky
this is good to know. thanks

------
RickJWagner
Wow, that is awesome! We (USA here) can learn some things from Japan.

~~~
codesushi42
The grass is always greener.

But in the case of the US, it usually is when the grass is the rest of the
developed world, sadly.

After staying in Japan, there is no doubt that I would live there if I were
Japanese. It is even a consideration as a non-Japanese.

Quality of life seems to be a lot better there, even if there aren't as many
job opportunities.

~~~
mutt2016
Quality if life seems better everywhere when you are a tourist. I think people
in the USA work crazy hours and take no vacations. How does Japan compare?

~~~
codesushi42
IMO from what I have heard from folks working at Japanese offices of big tech
companies: people work harder in SV.

------
Temasik
in singapore they use teenage to police the island

------
rubyn00bie
I honestly don’t know why police don’t first and foremost do social work,
helping out their communities (visiting elderly, helping folks with
disabilities, helping collect data, repair or fix ailing public facilities,
etc) instead of putting them in jail and fining them. Call me crazy, but what
a wonderful world that would be... if people saw a cop and thought “fuck yeah,
this person is here to help me,” rather than “find or create a situation in
which I’ve done something wrong and will be punished.”

We are all long-term pretty fucked as long as we have institutions devoted to
our worst selves. As another commenter said, we need to incentivize better
behavior if we want it...

~~~
zik
When I was a child I read picture story books which taught me that this was
the purpose of police - to help citizens. They showed old ladies being helped
across the road by humble bobbies and exhorted me to seek the nearest
policeman if I ever became lost.

In adulthood it didn't take too many encounters with actual police to realise
that they don't see their purpose the same way AT ALL.

~~~
mnm1
Parents should be more responsible and teach their kids about police. One bad
encounter can be the end of their child's life. Letting them read things like
this without providing a realistic perspective is quite irresponsible, IMO. I
grew up in a society where no one was deluded like this about the role of
police. We all knew they were evil and out to hurt or kill us. Those lessons
paid off after I moved to America. Here the cops are just as bad but many
people kid themselves into thinking they are not. That's a delusional society.

~~~
amfsn
Cops in the US are out there to hurt you or kill you? Talk about delusional.

------
lacampbell
That sounds amazing. Here in provincial NZ officers won't even respond to a
car crash or minor violent crimes, because they're so understaffed. I can go a
month without seeing them. I have zero faith in police to deal with the large
anti-social behaviour here, and it's made me dislike having to be in public.

If you're a criminal come to NZ. You can rob any shop you want, no one has
guns, and police departments won't bother with you even if the victims have
your face on camera.

~~~
crimsonalucard
Why is this voted down. Just wondering.

~~~
lacampbell
I assume it's because I pointed out shop owners not having guns makes them
easier targets.

Also a lot of wealthy americans tend to fetishize New Zealand as a place they
can 'escape' to every time a republican becomes president - so maybe this
ruins the image they have of it.

~~~
northwest65
Funny isn't it, that they think they would be welcome because they vote
blue... New Zealanders tend to consider Americans undesirable immigrants
regardless of their political beliefs.

------
dave_aiello
Was this article written before or after the Kyoto Animation Studio fire,
[https://comicbook.com/anime/2019/07/18/kyoto-animation-
studi...](https://comicbook.com/anime/2019/07/18/kyoto-animation-studio-arson-
attack-japanese-officials-report-33-dead-anime/) ?

