

Man Bites Dog: NY Times Objects to Revenue for its Blogs - T_S_
http://www.kachingle.com/kachinglex/2010/10/but-we-love-you-the-new-york-times-my-conversation-with-mr-digital-mr-legal-and-mr-paywall/

======
brandnewlow
Odd that they're using a rip-off of the NYTimes blog template for their own
blog.

~~~
shortformblog
I thought that too. That seems suspect considering that their actions seem to
be courting a lawsuit.

------
jph
I installed the Kachingle browser extension and it works like a charm for me.
I read the NY Times blogs regularly and Kachingle showed me some lesser-known
NY Times blogs that I'm reading today.

I like to be able to donate directly to writers, so I'm all in favor of blog
tip jars, donation pages, and everything like it. Paywalls are a RPITA for
sharing content.

[Disclosure: I know people at Kachingle]

------
patio11
I would similarly object if someone were to breach my paywall. If you don't
like the NYT's, write your own newspaper, or use one of the many competing
options.

~~~
jrockway
Of course you would object. Pepsi objects when you buy Coke, but that's not
really Coke's problem.

~~~
patio11
They've developed a circumvention device. I don't know what the analogy is for
soda -- putting generic cola in a Pepsi can , selling it as Pepsi, and putting
out a tip jar for voluntary contributions to Pepsi? -- but if you were doing
it, Pepsi would squash you flat and be well within its rights to do so.

~~~
nostromo
Are you sure? I don't see anything on their site about circumventing a
paywall. Also, I don't even think NYTimes re-launched their paywall yet.

~~~
shadowflit
As far as I could tell, you "donate" $5 dollars a month to Kachingle, and they
distribute this donation (after taking their cut) according to the sites you
visit. It seems as if they are trying to "stop the paywall" by demonstrating
an alternate way to generate the revenue, and in so doing convince sites that
instituting a paywall is unnecessary. So, no, it seems no paywalls are being
circumvented.

However, I don't get why they're sending the payment to the blog's email
address and not the NYT (disclaimer: don't know how the NYT blogs work). It
seems to me Kachingle would be better applied at the site level. Given my
limited understanding, I can definitely see how applying it at this granular
level would annoy NYT - their paywall solution would make money for NYT first
(and trickle down later) whereas this seems to make money for the bloggers
first, and not for NYT. At the very least, payment should be split between NYT
and the specific blogger. (And if this is incorrect and the payment is in fact
going to NYT - then why on earth do they send it to so many different
places?!)

I like the idea of Kachingle for reading across multiple sites, but the NYT
blog situation just seems weird. No matter what though - assuming my
evaluation is even correct - figuring this stuff out took way too much digging
and reading on Kachingle's site.

~~~
bugsy
Both of you are correct they are not circumventing anything. Their plugin is
just to track which blogs, which are freely available, you are actually
reading so they know how to split your $5 according to what you actually read
each month.

They don't have to send the money to anyone. They could keep it for
themselves. But if they did no one would use the service as it wouldn't make
sense. Instead they donate to the writers personally. It's the same idea as
United Way collecting donations and then forwarding those donations to various
causes, while keeping a bit for overhead.

Not illegal. If they were hosting content, copying content or circumventing,
then it would be a problem.

Their use of official photos and logos of the blogs without permission is not
fair use though, that part will have to go. But they can certainly collect
donations for a third party according to any system they want without needing
the third party's permission.

------
shortformblog
Because I find Kachingle to be a pretty interesting idea, I'd like to offer an
open suggestion to their staff: They REALLY need to design more buttons to put
on your blog. They have three options and none of them actually fit easily on
my blog. Which makes it hard to try out their idea.

They should have a Feedburner-sized image, a Facebook like-button-sized image
and a large, think, more horizontal shape (think 960x30). Since they don't
have any of these, I can't put them on my blog without redesigning it
slightly. It's a shame, too, because I think their idea is pretty cool.

In regards to the Kachingle vs. NYT paywall thing, I think it's an intriguing
stunt. Who knows if it'll actually work, but I think as a promotion tool, you
can't beat disruption.

~~~
BillSaysThis
We continue to expand the number of styles and sizes available and this
feedback is really helpful in understanding what to do next with our scrappy
little team, thanks.

While this is not 100% finalized I think you can count on the slim, wide style
used on the KachingleX/NYTimes blogs pages being more generally available
soon.

Bill (Technical Marketing, Kachingle)

~~~
shortformblog
Need a tester? That's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about, actually.
:D

One suggestion I have is to make it resizable so that you can integrate it
anywhere that makes sense. I think a flexible design (kinda like the FB Fan
Box) would be very helpful. Glad to see the work your scrappy team is doing.

~~~
BillSaysThis
Thanks for offering! Our system is not set up to enable this (yet). Note that
the Medallions are not an image plus JavaScript but HTML, CSS and image or
three, and JavaScript inside an iframe, with the real content generated at
page load time based on the state of the person viewing the page (person
signed up with Kachingle and if so, does he or she already support the site).

Looking at <http://shortformblog.com/>, it’s a really nice, clean, readable
design and your concern about fitting new elements in is completely
understandable. Specifically in terms of size I think our Jazz style, which is
61x61, could fit in the column where you have the Retweet and FB Like buttons
per post.

You're using WordPress so our shiny plugin (I admit to pride of authorship for
it) makes it straightforward for you to have different Medallions for
yourself, Seth and each/any of the other authors.

/turning off sales mode

------
eli
If true, that seems like a pretty naive way to silence a blogger on a mission.

------
BillSaysThis
Update: instead of Fedexing a C&D, the NY Times has filed a lawsuit,
[http://www.kachingle.com/kachinglex/2010/10/nytimes-files-
la...](http://www.kachingle.com/kachinglex/2010/10/nytimes-files-lawsuit-
against-kachingle-along-with-dmca-takedown-notice/)

------
typaldos
Bunny the K9 Kachingler totally agrees!

------
amadiver
I don't think I agree with kachingle's stance. Casting the situation into one
I can more easily grasp:

What if I feel that movies should be free; that there be an "open-theatre"? I
pay my $11.00, set up my camera and sound equipment, and press record. I then
share this recording with a bunch of like-minded folks. ... Wait a second...

~~~
jrockway
It's $11 more than Hollywood usually makes from pirates.

~~~
amadiver
So "piracy"* is okay so long as the money ends up in the hands of the
producers? Maybe you're not saying that, but it's the implication I picked up.
That's such a strange scenario. Instead of paying the theatre $11.00, I
instead pay a third party $5.00, who (ostensibly) takes a cut, and then gives
the theatre the remainder?

I really like the idea behind Kachingle, but I don't support them subverting
paywalls, no matter if I personally agree that information should be free and
open.

*I really don't like the word "piracy" in this context; I'm using it as shorthand.

~~~
jrockway
_So "piracy" is okay so long as the money ends up in the hands of the
producers?_

No, piracy is always okay.

