

Ask Advice: Contractor or Disposable cofounder? - KevinMS

We've all seen these gigs:<p>"need help with development of web application"<p>and the more you look into it, it looks like somebody has some cash to spend and a vague idea of a site they'd like to implement.  What they don't realize, but what is common knowledge here at HN, its that their ideas are cheap, implementation is what counts, and it looks like the details of the successful implementation will be partially or fully on your shoulders.  The more you put into it, the more they get out of it, but you'll still be payed the same, and quite possibly, at the end, if they achieve any success, they will think it was all their doing.<p>What do HN contractors think of such a situation, and are their any guidelines or best practices to follow?<p>I'll throw some things out there, but not endorsing anything:<p>.5. Avoid, like the plague, any "I have an idea for a web app" jobs.<p>1.  Insisting that any "big ideas" come from the client, and the contractor just keeps his nose to the grindstone, and keeps quit on bigger issues (user experience, existing competition, "feature or startup?", virility, scalability, etc).<p>2.  Equity.  But I don't think you can just answer a job ad on craigslist and say I work for 30 bucks an hour and a piece of the action, or can you?<p>3.  Giving your absolute all, knowing that any success will result in more work from this particular client, as well as any referrals.<p>4. Telling the client what they need is more of a "consultant" than contractor, which you can be, to guide them to the most successful completion possible, but it will cost them more.<p>5a. Accept work from clients that are in over their heads, will probably get nowhere, but will pay you, build them a quality web app that nobody will ever use, but don't keep yourself up nights working about things like fantastic user experience, twitter integration, etc.<p>5b.  Work for those idiots who say they want a "facebook clone" and use facebook as the final spec, don't innovate, and make sure you get payed.<p>6. Work for a little while, wait until the client realizes he's way over his head without you, and then make a sweeter deal.<p>I hope I'm not looking greedy, that's not my intention or how I feel about it, I'm perfectly willing to be the best contractor possible at competitive price, and wish my clients the best success they can have, I'm more interested in not being taken advantage of.<p>Web app contracting is so wide open.  You can be hired to add a comment section, or you can end up making success or failure decisions.<p>Contrast it with other job descriptions.  Somebody might own a muffin shop, and they put an ad in the paper for somebody to help bake the muffins.  Because most everybody in society has an understanding in muffin baking and an expectation of whats involved, that job ad description is clear.  Contrast that with another ad like "need somebody to help me bake muffins, we need to figure out the best recipe, develop a unique and memorable brand, and create a marketing plan, and hopefully later expand to other locations."  In the world of muffins, that last ad description is arguably for a cofounder, but "need help with the development of a web application" could describe anything from CRUD to CTO.<p>Whoops sorry this was so long, I didn't realize until I submitted, since I was typing into that little box :)
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hga
#1: " _.5. Avoid, like the plague, any "I have an idea for a web app" jobs._ "

You won't get any respect, although if this is the best you can do for now,
make damned sure you get immediate remuneration. Anyone offering the "I have a
great idea but no money" proposition almost certainly isn't bringing anything
to the table. If they've successfully executed in times past they ought to be
bringing some money to the table, ought to have a least one techie they can
lean on, even if informally/part time, etc.; you'll recognize such people as
exceptions.

Option #1 just sounds impractical and is likely to be bad for you (e.g. your
professionalism, future job prospects (not something you'll like to put on
your resume), etc.).

As for option: " _2\. Equity. But I don't think you can just answer a job ad
on craigslist and say I work for 30 bucks an hour and a piece of the action,
or can you?_ "

I don't know how many of these exist, but the odds you'll realize anything
serious from equity compensation in a company like this are nowadays _very_
small. Even if the business guys have the bet of intentions and are honorable,
big exits just aren't in the card for all but the most exceptional companies.

The rest of the options should be judged on a case by case basis, but you'll
be better off if you can find more realistic people to work with.

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gexla
I'm not quite sure where you are going with this but your argument started out
seriously flawed. Successful implementation is not at all on the shoulders of
contract developers. As a contract developer, you are not the key to making
the application successful. Good implementation is much more than an idea and
a developer to build out that idea.

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KevinMS

      Good implementation is much more than an idea and a developer to build out that idea.
    

That is my point, what if you get in this situation and it looks like you are
hired as a "contractor" but the client is only bringing the idea to the table
and the rest is up to you?

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gexla
That would be quite ballsy on the part of the client. There's too many
variables that aren't mentioned in your hypothetical situation to make a case.
If a client came out with an idea and proposed hiring me for it and seemed too
clueless to give me much else for input then I would probably decline the
project. I just wouldn't trust this person to not flake out on me at some
point and cause a bunch of headaches for me. I'm busy enough as a contractor
that I wouldn't need to take on something like this and an important part of
contract development is knowing when to say no.

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filmschool
If you had to quantify, what would be the fair division between the idea guy,
the money guy, and the implementor?

