

Dutch travellers react calmly to loss of flight MH17 – “we are not America” - nezumi
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/dutch-travellers-react-calmly-loss-flight-mh17

======
paulhauggis
"This is something that never, never happens, and it's unlikely to happen
again. "

This wasn't an equipment failure or a natural disaster, so I don't really
agree with this line of thinking.

"But we are not going to call for the government to go and catch the
perpetrators or go to war."

If this was an intentional act, we do need to do something about it (so it
doesn't happen again). Extreme pacifism just leads to bully nations like
Russia taking over other nations with absolutely no intervention.

~~~
astrodust
Intentional or not, there have been, at most, three passenger jets hit by
anti-aircraft missiles in the last thirty years.

Keep in mind that even if this happened once a year, flying would still be
far, far safer than driving.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Intentional or not, there have been, at most, three passenger jets hit by
> anti-aircraft missiles in the last thirty years.

 _At most_ 3 is incorrect.

Not counting MH17, there are _at least_ four civilian passenger aircraft that
were definitively shot down by missiles, and more that were suspected to be
(or were definitively shot down, but where I can't find definitive information
on the "by missiles" part) in the last 30 years:

LN 602 (March 23, 2007): attributed to the Tamil Tigers using Manpad missiles

Siberia Airlines 1812 (October 4, 2001): admitted shot down by Ukrainian
military

Two Transair Georgia flights (September 21-22, 1993): shot down by missiles
fired by rebels

Iran Air 655 (July 3, 1988): shot down by the USS Vincennes

Air Malawi 7Q-YMB (November 6, 1987): shot down by Mozambique (can't find
anything one way or the other about whether this was "by anti-aircraft
missiles" rather than, say, guns, so maybe not technically within scope.)

~~~
tigerente
Also:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerolinee_Itavia_Flight_870),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_RH825](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_RH825),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_RH827](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Rhodesia_Flight_RH827),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Airlines_Flight_114](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Airlines_Flight_114),
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_3](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_3),
T&G Aviation DC-7 and more shot down by fighter aircraft.

There are far more than a dozen incidents in the past decades.

~~~
dragonwriter
Those (and KAL 007) are all outside of the thirty year window, but within a
40-year window. But, yes, there are _lots_ of past incidents.

------
amalag
This one is no mystery. There are deleted statements for this from the
separatists.

1\. Russian government gives BUK to separatists. (what could go wrong?). We
have deleted tweets from the separatists bragging about their newly acquired
BUK and youtube videos of the BUK being driven around.

2\. Separatists think they are shooting down a Ukrainian transport plane. They
brag about shooting down a plane at the time the plane went down. They alert
journalists who go to the site and are surprised to find bodies and passports.
The videos are on youtube.

So if the Dutch or Dutch government are not mad at the Russians, then dunno
what it would take.

~~~
kissa
This video:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g)

youtube-dl
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g)
-o 1.mp4 && mediainfo 1.mp4 | grep date

Encoded date: UTC 2014-07-16 19:07:49 Tagged date: UTC 2014-07-16 19:07:49

One day before ... Frame-up?

------
vixen99
Why present for debate the casual comments made on the spur of the moment
about this tragedy by a few travelers. As they said, they are literally, 'not
America'. Fact! Why read something into it?

~~~
paulhauggis
Because the OP presented it as such and wanted to convey a certain
opinion..and I happen to disagree.

------
zerooneinfinity
Not to belittle the tragedy, but somehow, this feels a little different then
people hijacking your planes and flying them into buildings.

------
ripter
I love all the americans in this post tying to explain why the Dutch are wrong
and they should be worried.

It really proves their point.

~~~
ruffles
What point? That they're not Americans??? They're not wrong. They're simply
ignorant..

------
ianstallings
If someone got punched in the face in front of you and then looked at you and
said "I'm not going to do anything, the chances of that happening again are
slim and I'm not some brutish American" would you be impressed or would you
think they're a little crazy?

~~~
goldbeck
Bad example since you're implying that they're continuing to stand in front of
the person who punched them. It's not like Dutch flights are going to continue
to fly over that part of Ukraine.

Better example, someone at a concert gets hit with a bottle someone else
threw. It was the only bottle thrown at that concert or any other concert
they've ever been to. They've know that it does happen though very rarely.
They look at you and say "I'm not going to do anything major, the chances of
that happening again are slim." You suspect they won't return to that same
venue however. Would you be impressed or would you think they're a little
crazy?

Personally, I'd be impressed.

