
Eating Too Much Rice Almost Doomed Japan's Imperial Navy - onetimemanytime
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/eating-way-too-much-rice-almost-doomed-japans-imperial-navy-59542
======
laser
My favorite part was on the last page, which I’ll include below as I assume
most won’t read to the end.

After 4,000 people died in the army from beriberi, the navy, which had
eradicated the disease with better diet, criticized the army’s resistance to
changing their diet. The article says:

‘Under attack by navy doctors, the Army Medical Bureau struck back with an
article published under a pseudonym. “The army does not need traditional
medicine, statistical speculation or 1,890-year-old theories to solve its
beriberi problem,” the article stated. “It needs scientific knowledge based on
experimental medicine.”’

After this, 26,000 more army men died from beriberi before the Emperor forced
them to add barley to their rice...

As wonderful as scientific knowledge from experimental medicine is and has
been, it seems this sort of belligerence towards pre-scientific human
knowledge causes enormous damage that we’re still continuing to reckon with
over a hundred years later. While ineffective traditional knowledge has caused
plenty of unnecessary suffering too, it is often unwise to dismiss purely on
the basis of having not yet been investigated with modern scientific rigor.

~~~
rjf72
There's a near identical tale behind scurvy. Scurvy, most of everybody now
knows, is caused simply by a deficiency of vitamin C. But this is something
that took thousands of years to grasp, with millions of people falling victim
to it in the interim. During the age of sail losing large chunks of your crew,
largely due to scurvy, was just part of life. Part of the reason the cure was
so difficult to discover is because it sounds folksy or homeopathic. As scurvy
is caused by a lack of vitamin C, a simple way of preventing it is eating
fresh fruits or meats.

Imagine somebody told you you could prevent some terrible and frequently fatal
disease, that's spread worldwide, by eating limes. And this was already well
within the age of formalized science and medicine. This was also further
confounded by the fact that the vitamin content of things such as lemon juice
degrades over time in storage, and even more rapidly in certain types of
storage. And so some scientific experiments to test its effectiveness were
inadvertently hamstringing themselves. It's made even more fun by the fact
that humans need external sources of vitamin c while some common lab animals
such as mice and rats do not - and internally make their own. You can withhold
external vitamin C from a mouse for years and you'll never see scurvy.

Its ironic that I think this particular tale has slowly been lost to many in
society, even though we have so many direct references to it. For instance the
slang for a Brit as a limey came from the fact that the British Navy was the
first to start dosing their sailors with lime, with tremendously positive
affects to show for it. Maybe the biggest one is vitamin C itself. Vitamin C
is now called ascorbic acid. But when it was first discovered it was known as
hexuronic acid. So huge was the effect of scurvy it was renamed for its
discovered anti-scorbutic (against scurvy) effect. Ascorbic was just a
shortening of anti-scorbutic. And this happened as recently as the 1930s!

~~~
alkonaut
Was there no source of Vitamin C that was cheaper, less perishable, and more
easily available in Northern Europe in all seasons, than citrus? I don't know
how exotic lemons were at the time, but I'd guess loading up on lots of citrus
in a Northern European port could be rather expensive?

~~~
nitwit005
Remember that, without understanding the chemistry, running an experiment was
difficult. Aside from the expense, I doubt people would be enthused about
doing trials of alternative foods when people would get scurvy if the food
turned out not to work as well.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _without understanding the chemistry, running an experiment was difficult_

Also, without the scientific method, the concept of an experiment could look
to an outsider like recklessness (or buffoonery).

------
steve_adams_86
I find it fascinating that at the time, a holistic diet-based solution was
considered flakey and rooted in ignorant traditions.

And yet here we are almost 200 years later and many common illnesses are still
closely related to diet, and many still feel as though treatment through diet
is flakey or inferior to modern drugs or surgery.

It turns out one of the best things we can do for ourselves is eat well and
strive to prevent disease before it occurs. If I recall correctly, this is a
core tenant of many traditional medicines including traditional Chinese
medicine.

I'm not saying we should all start practicing traditional medicine. I just
find it fascinating that we have and still often discount traditional
knowledge, even after it's been virtually proven for milennia. It's like we
throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I hope modern science can find more concrete conclusions around health and
diet such that more people might have faith in food as a preventative
medicine. To many of us it seems obvious, but to much of the world I suspect
it isn't... Just like it wasn't in the Japanese Navy.

~~~
bad_user
I would add more ... when it comes to chronic diseases, modern medicine is
about treatment after the fact, after the damage has occurred and not about
prevention.

And while it’s incredibly efficient at treating acute conditions, it fails
miserably at chronic ones because it’s treating symptoms instead of underlying
causes.

And sometimes those symptoms might actually be part of the body’s defenses
against inflammation, which doctors suppress with pills.

The perfect example is elevated LDL cholesterol. This is a marker for heart
disease, however it can be high due to hypothyroidism or due to inflammation.
LDL cells are actually part of the body’s immune system and by suppressing
their synthesis or by accelerating their clearance, the body could be less
effective at fighting infections or at repairing arterial walls that have been
damaged. Plus pills are a blunt tool with many unintended side effects.

It is no wonder then that people taking statins don’t have a reduction in all
cause mortality and personally I’d rather die of a heart attack than die of
cancer or dementia.

Also the DASH diet, the one that is supposed to prevent CVD, is effectively
poison as it’s encouraging people to eat ultra-processed food and oils high in
omega-6, due to encouraging a big chunk of energy to come from “whole grains”
(i.e. products which are often a lesson in chemistry and that might not even
contain whole grains due to weak regulation), plus the phobia for saturated
fat.

~~~
JamesBarney
> It is no wonder then that people taking statins don’t have a reduction in
> all cause mortality and personally I’d rather die of a heart attack than die
> of cancer or dementia.

Healthy people without any CVD taking statins experience no reduction in all
cause mortality. People with a history of CVD definitely experience a
reduction in all cause mortality.

> It is no wonder then that people taking statins don’t have a reduction in
> all cause mortality and personally I’d rather die of a heart attack than die
> of cancer or dementia.

So far statin's are associated with a reduced risk of dementia.(I have no idea
about cancer, but can't imagine it increases the odds)

Also where are you getting that the DASH diet is effectively poison or ultra
processed?

~~~
bad_user
>> _People with a history of CVD definitely experience a reduction in all
cause mortality._

Actually it's people with a history of heart attacks and the reduction in all
cause mortality is measured on average to be only a couple of months.

\---

>> _So far statin 's are associated with a reduced risk of dementia_*

The common side effects of statins are headaches, sleep problems, muscle aches
or weakness, drowsiness, dizziness, nausea, abdominal pain, bloating,
diarrhea, constipation, rash.

There have also been reports of memory loss, forgetfulness and confusion.
These are not emphasized, probably not so common, but the reports I've seen
are freaking scary.

Also if there is no reduction in all cause mortality, but there is a reduction
in heart attacks, this means there's an increased likelihood that some other
chronic disease will kill you. It's simple math really, if you don't die of
heart attacks, you're more likely to die of cancer or dementia, as these are
the most common causes of death.

\---

>> " _Also where are you getting that the DASH diet is effectively poison or
ultra processed?_ "

By advising people to eat less saturated fat, you're effectively advising
people to eat seed oils (the "heart healthy" oils), which actually increase
the likelihood of cardiovascular disease, due to the very high omega-6
content, which is inflammatory, along with toxins from the extraction process.
Here are some studies on this subject:

[https://gist.github.com/alexandru/5e21b75363904004f837c23f03...](https://gist.github.com/alexandru/5e21b75363904004f837c23f03afe017)

Also go into any supermarket and carefully read the label on any food labeled
with "whole grains", especially those made of wheat. Most of them meet the
definition of "ultra-processed" food and many of them are not even made of
actual whole grains, because fiber has poor shelf life, so what they do is to
use white flour and then add some bran back, which doesn't have the same
effect. In my city I couldn't find any local bakeries that made bread out of
whole grains. Corn is the same story, unless you're eating your home made
polenta. And brown rice is toxic, so you're you're actually better off eating
the white variety.

The problem with DASH in this regard is not the advice to consume whole
grains, but the advice to make whole grains a staple food in the diet.

------
ezoe
It's easy to laugh the old incidents. But it's pointless without considering
the situation at that time. Otherwise, it's like laughing at old movies,
saying: "Why don't they use cellphone to communicate each other?". The
cellphone haven't invented at that time.

Japanese navy suffered beriberi for eating milled white rice and nothing else.
Because milled rice only diet lacks essential vitamins. But the first vitamin
hasn't been found until 1913(Vitamin A). Nobody in the world had a correct
knowledge about healthy diet. In this case, eating un-milled brown rice.

At that time, majority of them believed that beriberi was caused by some kind
of bacteria. So Japanese navy did everything they could do to prevent
infection. It was not like they were trying. They didn't know the correct
solution.

So your next question would be, why didn't they test it scientifically? Well,
in 1880, Statistics hadn't been developed like today. So not many people, even
the scientists didn't have a proper statistic knowledge like modern scientists
today must has or else they are doomed to be called unscientific idiot.

You must also consider that at that time, the brown rice was for poor. It's
taste aren't that good compared to white rice. Rich people was enjoy eating
white rice everyday. Now imagine you were drafted for military, serving for
the country, and you can't get a delicious and enough meal. That' a shame. So
Japanese navy serve the best meal the traditional Japanese soldiers want, a
lot of white rice.

~~~
DuskStar
...because no other navy had encountered issues from feeding their crew a
monotonous diet before. Maybe not this specific set of issues, but issues
nonetheless.

~~~
ezoe
Until very recently, traditional Japanese meal was consists of a bowl of rice,
miso soup with some vegetables, and some vegetables.

Because of religious and cultural reason(it was not that strong ban but most
people follow it), Japanese at that time rarely eat meat.

~~~
DuskStar
And what relevance does that have? That's not the diet the sailors in question
had _or_ the replacement diet that was proposed.

------
sandGorgon
There's another story - the Japanese Curry was invented by the British to
prevent scurvy [1]

The earliest recipe for "raisu kari" is from the "Beeton's Book of Household
Management" [4] which in turn uses " _INDIAN CURRY-POWDER, founded on Dr.
Kitchener’s Recipe_ "

The Brits got curry from India (duh!)

One of the leaders of India's freedom struggle against the British - Rash
Behari Bose - escaped to Japan and created the "Indo-karii" Nakamuraya curry
[2] . You can still eat it [3].

the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force still serves curry every Friday as a
tradition. And each ship has its own recipe [5]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_curry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_curry)

[2] [https://www.thebetterindia.com/109063/rash-behari-bose-
ina-n...](https://www.thebetterindia.com/109063/rash-behari-bose-ina-
nakamuraya-curry-japan/)

[3] [http://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/](http://www.nakamuraya.co.jp/)

[4] [https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2011/08/26/food/curry-
its-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2011/08/26/food/curry-its-more-
japanese-than-you-think/#.XOzffXUzais)

[5]
[https://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/formal/family/recipe/archive/curr...](https://www.mod.go.jp/msdf/formal/family/recipe/archive/currey.html)

~~~
joncrane
When I lived in Japan as a kid my two favorite foods were miso soup and that
curry. It came in a box with gold writing and I think it was called S&B Golden
Curry. It was amazing.

~~~
JimiofEden
S&B Golden Curry can be found in America as well, luckily.

I make a big pot at least once a month and have leftovers for the whole week.
It's possibly one of my favorite meals that I can prep in bulk.

The only next step I'm really interested in taking would be trying to make a
curry roux from scratch, but I can't deny how amazing the prepackaged stuff
is.

------
LyndsySimon
It's odd that the article doesn't mention curry. The whole purpose of the
introduction of curry to the IJN was to prevent beriberi, and it's become one
of Japan's best-known dishes.

------
hackerbabz
> Takaki fought hard to institute fixed diets—but the navy resisted, saying it
> would double the cost of feeding crews.

The navy made this argument while facing 1/3 to 1/2 rates of total crew loss
due to the disease.

------
w0mbat
Vitamin B1 deficiency causes beriberi, and white rice lacks B1. The article
says that Japanese ships actually made a variety of food available but only
white rice was free. It was the economic incentive that killed them.

Similarly, corn lacks vitamin B3, and a corn-only diet causes a disease called
"pellagra", which was once common in the US among the poor.

If you read the ingredients on say a packet of corn flakes, you'll see
thiamine and niacin (B1 and B3) are now added to prevent both kinds of
disease.

Casimir Funk, who basically discovered vitamins, helped find the role of
thiamin in the etiology of beriberi, and also investigated pellagra. Funk said
that pellagra was caused by B3 deficiency in 1912, but nobody listened and
pellagra continued to devastate parts of the US into the 1940s.

------
jokowueu
This is why they have VERY interesting vitamin B1 analogues

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B1_analogue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B1_analogue)

------
zhte415
Very related HN posting from 7 months ago on the supplementation of white rice
(with curry): How Curry Became a Japanese Naval Tradition.

HN post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18305211](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18305211)

Linked article: [https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japanese-curry-
history](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/japanese-curry-history)

------
thorwasdfasdf
Spoiler alert, they were not getting enough Vitamin B1.

I have a tool that breaks down nutritional densities on a per calorie basis.
You can, for instance set the slider to B1 and see what foods contain the
highest concentrations of B1: [https://kale.world/c](https://kale.world/c)

You'll notice that unenriched rice noodles only contain 3% of your Vitamin B1
needs in a 200 calorie serving.

Note: that these days the issue is less likely to come up because white rice
and white flours are often enriched with those Vitamins (similar to the way
that cereals often are enriched with the vitamins they're missing)

But, they also seem to suggest it might be lack of protein which I find harder
to believe. Rice is 9% protein which is significantly more than the WHO's
minimum recommendation of protein. I know some countries like the US state
10%, but that's double what the World health organization recommends.

~~~
stevenhuang
That's a very useful site! Thanks.

------
vfc1
Beriberi was mostly caused by the replacement of whole rice by white rice.
White rice is not a whole grain and has most of its fiber and many nutrients
removed. If they had eaten whole rice instead, the disease is then easily
prevented.

But eating whole rice was apparently not socially well seen, as it was a food
associated with the very poor.

Later some of the nutrients have been sprayed back into the white rice, with
the recommendation to not wash the rice before cooking, not to wash away the
nutrients.

------
kozak
I recently have accidentally learned that my entire family is seriously
deficient in vitamin D (even despite it's summer). A big surprise, and one
that could have stayed undetected for many more years.

~~~
napsterbr
My almost 90 years old grandmother was having episodes of demency. She would
see stuff that didn't exist, talk to people that weren't there, and not
recognize her own relatives. After weeks of doctor visits, and we all being
100% sure she was having something serious like Alzheimers, turns out it was
vitamin D deficiency.

Just sharing this here because I had no idea vitamin D deficiency could cause
this.

------
brookhaven_dude
Somehow this is not a problem in Indian rice.

------
baron816
Page crashed twice while I was trying to read this and only made it a few
paragraphs in. My phone also got very hot. Too bad sites like these have to
rely on shady adware to produce interesting content like this.

~~~
mistahenry
they didn't even make the content. The original article is
[https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-
almost...](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost-sank-
the-japanese-navy-f985772c81a6)

