
Honeybee brains seem to use alpha waves similarly to primate brains - laurex
https://www.zmescience.com/science/honeybee-brains-alpha-waves/
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ajna91
I think many insects are far smarter than we have assumed.

Bumblebees can learn to pull a string to receive a reward [1]. But maybe
that's just blind conditioning? Well if another bumblebee watches it happen
from behind a glass wall, it can perform the task without being trained at all
[2].

1:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSCr5OxXN1A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSCr5OxXN1A)
2: [https://faunalytics.org/bumblebee-school-learning-and-
teachi...](https://faunalytics.org/bumblebee-school-learning-and-teaching-by-
example/)

And of course Portia spiders show remarkable memory, planning, and on-the-spot
flexibility in hunting strategies. Also they can do the same kind of counting
that many human cultures do: 1, 2, and many.

[https://phys.org/news/2017-07-spiders.html](https://phys.org/news/2017-07-spiders.html)

~~~
taneq
Sounds like an instance of Clarke's first law: "When a distinguished but
elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly
right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably
wrong."

Over and over again we've assumed that something simply isn't possible for
creatures other than humans to do, and over and over again we've eventually
discovered that we're not that unique after all.

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dr_dshiv
"In 1929 Hans Berger discovered the alpha oscillations: prominent, ongoing
oscillations around 10 Hz in the electroencephalogram of the human brain.
These alpha oscillations are among the most widely studied brain signals,
related to cognitive phenomena such as attention, memory and consciousness.
However, the mechanisms by which alpha oscillations affect human cognition
await demonstration. Here, we suggest the honey bee brain as an experimentally
more accessible model system for investigating the functional role of alpha
oscillations. We found a prominent spontaneous oscillation around 18 Hz that
is reduced in amplitude upon olfactory stimulation. Similar to alpha
oscillations in primates, the phase of this oscillation biased both timing of
neuronal spikes and amplitude of high-frequency gamma activity (40–450 Hz).
These results suggest a common role of alpha oscillations across phyla and
provide an unprecedented new venue for causal studies on the relationship
between neuronal spikes, brain oscillations and cognition."

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IIAOPSW
Admittedly I'm very pedestrian when it comes to neurology. But my
understanding is that much like the bands of the EM spectrum (radio, ir,
visible etc), the bands of brain waves (alpha, beta, gamma etc) are just human
imposed categorizations. There's no real dividing line. Eg you won't find a
lack of brain wave frequencies right on the borderline between alpha and beta.

I think it is fairly obvious that brain waves on the 10Hz scale must be useful
for processing / reacting to / controlling phenomena that happen on 1/10th of
a second time scales. The shorter the time scale, the higher the relevant
frequency. In my rank speculation, bees have "alpha" waves because something
they do happens to be on that time scale.

I doubt there is some cognitive mechanism to consciousness that humans, bees,
and no other species has in common.

~~~
dr_dshiv
Oh, the key signal processing idea is this: alpha is the dominant frequency
band (highest amplitude, most resonant frequency). The other bands are roughly
harmonic doublings or halvings of alpha. That is how the brain couples
different time scales together -- it can synchronize gamma cycles to the beat
of alpha. It's like music, then, for integrating different rhythms together.

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439401...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439401930504X)

~~~
IIAOPSW
Well that's interesting but raises a big question for me. Why does the brain
need to couple different time scales together? Why should my breathing rate be
a multiple of my typing rate. What does synchronizing processes at different
time scales accomplish?

~~~
dr_dshiv
Generally speaking, information integration is entropy reduction, which is
essential for life.

As for what it accomplishes, think of how walking is a large rhythm involving
the synchronization of many smaller rhythmic units. Or how perception of an
object involves the integration of many small textures and elements into a
whole. If those textures can be viewed as rhythms (FFT everything), it's
another practical example of what synchronizing processes accomplishes.

Singer has evidence that seeing objects as a whole uses 40hz inhibitory
interneurons to synchronize the firing of features associated with a different
object. So, another object would have a different 40hz phase. In that way, the
synronizing creates wholes from different parts.

~~~
IIAOPSW
Next question. If the background illumination of a room were blinking at 40Hz
(Eg florescent light bulbs on 40Hz AC power), would that interfere with my
visual perception? If not why not?

~~~
dr_dshiv
It probably would, because i believe objects blinking at 40hz facilitate
certain motor responses. "In addition, it has been shown in humans that
stimuli which flicker at gamma frequencies are processed faster by our brains
than when they flicker at different frequencies" [1]

I'm super curious whether 40hz line AC might not be healthier for aging
populations. Or 80hz. [2]

[1]
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38134861_Human_EEG_...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/38134861_Human_EEG_responses_to_1-100_Hz_flicker_resonance_phenomena_in_visual_cortex_and_their_potential_correlation_to_cognitive_phenomena)

[2]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6700637/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6700637/)

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pieterk
Aren’t these frequencies merely defined by the rate of chemical reactions that
occur between neurons (eg. how fast action potentials get generated and
travel)?

If that’s true, it seems that this study points in the direction that bees and
primates have similar neurotransmission for the brain regions studied.

~~~
blululu
This is less true than you might think. While the main neurotransmitters are
the same serotonin conveys different signals in mammalian and insect brains.
Additionally these chemical reactions are modulated by the cells and a long
period wave like alpha is related to more macro scale connectivity. The fact
that a similar macro pattern emerges is not guaranteed by the fact that a
neuron is a neuron. As a metaphor water molecules are identical but a
snowflake and a raindrop are totally different in their material properties.

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LessDmesg
Bees are dead stupid, though. They have varroa mites sucking their juices and
don't even do anything about it. That's like if half your family had cat-sized
vampires stuck to their sides and you all went about your business as usual.

"Hey Mom, how are you doing? You look pale. Must be that fat vampire that's
been sucking your blood this past week. I have one too now, though - looks
kinda cool! Oh well, gotta go, see ya!"

And whole bee hives actually get destroyed by those mites. Arrgh. So don't
talk about the intelligence of those buggers. They're brain-dead where it
matters.

~~~
istorical
That's a fun visual and I never knew about it, but can't help but immediately
think about the 'Hey Mom! How are you doing? You look obese. Your arteries are
completely clogged.' analogy of self-destruction in humans, even though it's
not a great comparison. But I think aliens or a higher power or some more
evolved species would look at many things humans do - or don't do - and think
we're brain dead.

I think it's about the idea that blindspots are obvious to everyone but the
being with that particular blindspot.

~~~
murukesh_s
That's true, but I don't think we have to wait for Aliens, may be within
couple of decades we gonna think how stupid we are to overdose on sugar and
sugary drinks.

~~~
testuser66
> within couple of decades

We already do.

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acd
Does that mean that Bees brains can think together like a group due to the
longer wave length of Alpha waves? Ie are their thinking linked? I am thinking
like short wave radio which travels long distance, vs High frequency radio
which travels short distance.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_wave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_wave)

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allovernow
I wonder, has anyone attempted to study whether any aspect of decision-making
or reasoning fall along this frequency range? Waves could be something like a
CPU clock cycling. Which may affect neuron function globally, representing
different mental states like sleep.

