
Fears Grow of an Eviction Apocalypse - JumpCrisscross
https://www.axios.com/eviction-crisis-coronavirus-351bb693-a04f-4ea1-a27d-dceb5163af14.html
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cosmodisk
The whole model of housing is broken in most countries,including the US. It's
interesting that entire economies are willing to subsidise food to make it as
available as possible, but the second most important thing in human life-
shelter,is completely overlooked. I'm not arguing that everybody should live
in large mansions free of charge, however the fact that people who work do
struggle to keep roof over their heads either via rent or mortgages is absurd.
Also,how society deals with periods of uncertainty,or difficulty. For instance
someone takes a mortgage for 30 years period and then ends up having some
temporary hiccups on year 5 that can be resolved in a few months ( i.e.
unemployment). So instead of saying something like: 'ok, you are having
difficult times,which is li ke 1% of the entire period,so you'll simply have
to pay this longer', we say: 'tough luck, get out!'.

~~~
corebit
We've tried free and low cost housing for decades in the US and its been a
disaster every single time. Every. Single. Time.

~~~
nine_zeros
Why is this the only other option? How about removing rent controls and other
regulations around building smaller low cost units and then charging a 15%
vacancy tax on any unit that is empty for 3 months?

This way we are increasing supply and not encouraging hoarding.

~~~
inetsee
"regulations around building smaller low cost units";

I think this is a fundamental problem for dealing with low cost housing
issues. Many cities have building regulations mandating minimum sizes for
apartments, and requirements for a minimum number of parking spaces, even for
apartment complexes close to public transportation. This makes it impossible
for builders to build low cost housing. The problem of low cost housing has
been around for a long time; the pandemic is just making it a much bigger
problem.

Unfortunately, building an apartment complex takes time, and if the pandemic
crisis is resolved (for some definition of resolved) in a year or 18 months,
the low cost housing problem will just go back to what it was before the
pandemic.

~~~
danaris
I mean, to some extent, what you're saying is, "Cities require apartments to
be better than prison cells, and it's hard to make massive profits making
genuinely livable housing that can be provided to people who don't make much
money."

Which...yeah, the purpose of low-income housing should be to provide housing
that people can still thrive in, no matter their income, not to make massive
profits for the real estate or construction companies.

The cities themselves should be footing the bill to make sure their people are
well-cared-for. It's already been proven in multiple instances to cost less
than dealing with homelessness and its consequences, even if the people
they're providing housing for can't pay a single cent (at first).

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gentryb
This hit me personally (somewhat) yesterday - I'm not being evicted, but
learned that my apartment was rented out from me during the COVID-19 crisis
(used in past tense) yesterday. Struggling with enough other things that a
move certainly wasn't envisioned in my future.

I was already dealing with a ton of uncertainty, but this one now takes the
cake.

Unfortunately, I was predicting something like this while volunteering at the
homeless shelter. More people are closer to being homeless than they realize.
Little did I know it might be me.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
> I'm not being evicted, but my apartment was rented out from me

Non-USian here: what's the distinction?

~~~
gentryb
I should have said rented out from under me - It was rented by someone sight
unseen in the middle of COVID without them notifying me I wouldn't be able to
renew my lease.

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
Is this a thing in the US? In most of the world that would be impossible
without the landlord giving proper notice that they're not going to let you
renew, and a legally permissible reason why.

~~~
rtkwe
Further down they say the lease ends in August depending on the state that's
probably enough time given they're probably not just finding this out today. I
don't think they're forced to have a particular reason for not renewing in the
States just a notification period. (not 100% sure I only rented for a few
years and never had to really dig in on my local rights)

~~~
gentryb
I absolutely knew the lease ended in August. There was no notification, until
yesterday, that my home had already been rented out. I also had the intention
to renew said lease, but it's all up in the air at this point.

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blunte
The ever-increasing income disparity in the US was eventually going to become
a breakdown (and a class war). It will happen sooner, thanks to this
unexpected global health crisis.

Are they really going to throw the guy who stocks their Walmart shelves out on
the street? If they do, who will stock the shelves? Who will work the meat
factories?

I have come to believe that the ruling elite must on average be low
intelligence, or at least incapable of simple reasoning. Personal greed has
displaced nearly every other thought. Unfortunately, the stark realization may
not occur for another generation; so those who have done the most damage will
likely be dead without ever paying a personal cost.

~~~
mrfox321
Well if you consider the fact that the wealth of the elite is generally
inherited, they should be no smarter than anyone else.

~~~
myth_drannon
Yes, but the elites can afford the best education to their children, better
food. So the children are smarter and after a couple of generations, the gap
is huge. That's how meritocracy fails, first the smart and hard-working become
wealthy but then they invest in their children more and more.

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nemo44x
There’s already a lot of civil unrest not from just the BLM protesters but
also the people scared to lose their jobs, homes, etc. before that.

We are paying for our lack of social safety net now. There’s enough people
already questioning the legitimacy of our liberal democracy.

Having lots of people lose the place they live (effectively making people who
have played by the rules and bought into the system) would certainly create a
lot of unnecessary instability. Calls for revolution that were actually shared
by a big enough population and then gaining steam, calls for civil war, and a
fractured political apparatus too impotent to reign it in before it gets out
of control.

~~~
hourislate
>We are paying for our lack of social safety net now.

While that might be part of the problem, how much of it is self inflicted?
Even people who can afford to save, don't. They blow all their money on a
lifestyle. ATM I am trying to gently advise a co-worker to really start
thinking about saving for his retirement. 50 years old and it's paycheck to
paycheck (6 figure salary)for him.

Some people create their own rainy days....

~~~
giantDinosaur
Tax such incomes at higher rates and invest in the infrastructure that would
necessarily support such people anyway were they to become destitute. As a
surprising benefit, people who do require welfare of some kind for reasons
beyond their control will also be helped. Avoid passing moral judgement on
post-tax expenditure - if people live less than ideal lives at that point,
that's indeed on them.

Is that an unreasonable perspective?

~~~
tome
It's considered a reasonable perspective in Europe, by and large. I guess
one's opinion depends on whether one expects those in control of tax
expenditure to provide welfare in an effective way.

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corbet
So I sold my rental unit years ago...the landlord business just isn't as much
fun as the brochure says it should be. But if I were still in it, and I had
reasonable tenants, I would be doing everything I could to avoid evicting
them. Who, exactly, are you going to get to replace them in this environment?
What's the point of going through that miserable (for everybody involved)
process?

~~~
duxup
I think many small landlords would do as you describe.

But I suspect many are big organizations that may be less flexible.

~~~
ljf
For the 'big orgs' they will also want to get in early. You don't want to be
the last one evicting people - which is disgusting, but is the face of big
business.

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jacknews
Landlords and lenders need to share the pain of this debacle.

You can't forcibly close the real economy, and expect it to still pay rent and
interest as though nothing happened.

Just deferring rent or loan interest hardly helps at all, in fact it just
creates a bigger problem down the road, as the article shows.

It must be waived.

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yardie
The US homeless population stands at 567K [0] at the time in 2019. And for
those that live in urban areas, it feels like the number is twice that
already. I've met a few who were already at a marginal state prior to 2009 and
the GFC is what pushed them over that precipice. Things haven't gotten a whole
lot better for those that have managed to hang on to the lower class. And if
you were paying attention the working class either didn't vote or voted for a
demagogue to stick it to the do nothing elites.

[0] [https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-
america/homeless...](https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-
america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2020/)

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BrandoElFollito
In France this is going to be the opposite.

When you rent an appartment or house to someone, your have basically no way to
get rid of them. Once every three years you can break the lease ONLY if you
make it your primary living place, or your immediate family.

Otherwise your are stuck.

No payments? You are obligated to propose solutions. Evictions take years
adheres more years of trying to accommodate the renters.

Vandalism? Nobody cares.

You are on vacation and your house us squatted for more than 48h? You cannot
get back without a special permission from the court. It will take some time
for your primary house, and infinite time for a secondary one.

So there should be something in the middle.

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aww_dang
Interested to see how this plays out.

Should we expect new political measures and subsidies?

If so, when will the 'stimulus' end or will it become the new normal?

Will lenders, landlords and tenants negotiate among themselves? Bulk
foreclosures and massive vacancies will hurt landlords and lenders
respectively.

~~~
Mediterraneo10
> Bulk foreclosures and massive vacancies will hurt landlords and lenders
> respectively.

Will they? At least for commercial real estate in large cities where shops are
going bust due to high rents, it is often claimed that owners are fine with
letting the space stay unoccupied for long periods of time, because they are
playing some kind of long game.

~~~
Spooky23
The tax system is architected to benefit commercial landlords. The government
basically pays you to hold underutilized property, as you can use the losses
to offset income in other parts of the business at a premium rate.

On top of that, property taxes are usually based on revenue, so holding
property is cheap. I did work for a guy who owned a bunch of vacant lots that
paid less taxes than my house. He "rented" the lots to some other affiliated
company, who in turn made a bunch of money on parking, etc.

The tiny tear that I would shed for real estate people is smaller then even
cable and telephone companies.

------
Balgair
Personally, I've seen a _lot_ more 'for sale' signs in my neighborhood
recently, though their prices seem to be about what they were before the
pandemic. Zillow says that things a good around here and these are normal
summer sales, but it feels off to me.

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EGreg
Ancaps should understand that Private Property, like Government, is an
institution that requires the threat of violence to enforce. It’s only
“defensive force” if you agree to an unlimited right to property, which is the
monopoly right to exclude others from using a resource. Step back and think
about it.

Some people don’t believe in ownership of ideas (patents)

Some people don’t believe in ownership of authored data (copyright)

Some people don’t believe in ownership of large swaths of land or lakes,
resources, including houses etc.

Most people believe in enforcing chattel property.

But as you get further from that, you need an organization and laws to enforce
it. At some point the right to property must be balanced against other rights,
eg the right of a squatter to have shelter from the elements vs the right of a
landlord to enforce rent over 50,000 properties.

~~~
aww_dang
Most of these topics have been argued/explained at length elsewhere.

>Ancaps should understand...

Likewise, actually reading some of these arguments would help you understand
the positions advanced by anarcho-capitalists.

~~~
EGreg
Would love to see links to articles addressing my points above. Are they in
agremeent? Pushing back?

~~~
aww_dang
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=privatization+of+securi...](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=privatization+of+security+site:mises.org&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart)

[https://cdn.mises.org/qjae2_4_7.pdf](https://cdn.mises.org/qjae2_4_7.pdf)

[https://cdn.mises.org/22_1_23.pdf](https://cdn.mises.org/22_1_23.pdf)

There are various positions. Generally most disagree with the concept of
intellectual property as it is now.

There are some who would disagree that property as in land can be owned
outside of the ability to utilize it. Many point to the first principle of
ownership stemming from utilization and improvements upon the land.

Generalizing about ancaps is a difficult proposition. "Herding cats", is an
apt description. However your final statement seemed divorced from anything
advocated by anarcho-capitalists.

There are real pragmatic concerns about advancing anything outside of the
current paradigm. Even within the narrow confines of what is possible with the
current system, we see deadlock and endless bickering.

At the end of the day reading political philosophies can be interesting, but
not fruitful in the real sense of bringing about change. Just the same,
misconstruing the arguments advanced within these philosophies isn't helpful.

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vmchale
Having so many people move around in a pandemic could get awful.

Hard to predict in any case, but if the virus gets worse the economy will get
even worse.

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swiley
We knew housing prices couldn’t grow forever, at some point there has to be a
revolution wether civil or economic.

