
Airbnb’s ‘Guerrilla War’ Against Local Governments - Bhilai
https://www.wired.com/story/inside-airbnbs-guerrilla-war-against-local-governments/
======
nate_meurer
I run a vacation rental in a small town in the mountains of Colorado. I'm
quite happy to pay the taxes the town demands. Our place is busy, and our
guests make a significant impact on the town, spending _a lot_ of money in
local shops and restaurants. On the other hand, there is increased wear on
city and county roads (many of which are gravel), and increased load on water,
sewer, and sanitation services.

Cities and counties need money to provide us with the services we depend on to
run our little business. Reasonable taxes and fees are a fair, expected, and
necessary price. The little town we're in has struck a decent balance price-
wise, and they also have a decent regulatory system set up that's designed to
ensure that neighbors' complaints about parking, noise, and trash are
addressed.

We're very by-the-book operators. I want the city to see money from me because
I want them to have an interest in protecting my business.

There are a couple of hotels under construction in town, which makes me
nervous. Hotels hate vacation rentals. I'm not fond of AirBNB as a corporate
citizen, but the Hoteliers cartel is dirtier. I wouldn't be surprised if the
new hotels lobby the town to ban vacation rentals outright, or craft lethal
regulations like those in Tennessee recently that require all vacation rentals
to install fire-suppression sprinklers
[[https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2015/jan/3/cities-
acro...](https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/2015/jan/3/cities-acro...)].

~~~
siruncledrew
Your story shows an example of doing things the "proper way" \- you operate
by-the-book, you take responsibility for the property, and you're an active
local small biz participant.

The bigger issue is the people not doing these things. There are hosts (and
guests) that simply don't give a fuck about others. Hosts (especially ones
that don't live in the area) couldn't care less about their impact on the
neighborhood as long as money keeps coming into their bank account, and will
try their hardest to take shortcuts and avoid responsibility. Some "hosts" are
more like wannabe slumlords. "Bad actor" guests also don't care about what
happens to a place they are going to leave, which leads to things like trash,
disturbances, and stealing.

A problem with Airbnb is that properties are not siloed; there is an
environment around them. There's many places on Airbnb that are better than
hotels, and there's a lot of economic impact on local communities. Airbnb
needs to re-evaluate how these places are part of a community rather than
isolated from one.

The "sunshine and rainbows" sentiment behind why Airbnb exists is a nice
thought, but the platform is rolling into a snowball of consequences and
externalities. Assholes are going to be assholes, so many bad experiences are
not from normal transactions, but from assholes using Airbnb to their
advantage and Airbnb turning their cheek.

~~~
nate_meurer
I don't disagree regarding AirBNB specifically, but sweeping generalizations
about vacation rentals are destructive in communities that really need them to
survive. Dozens of towns across Colorado are depending on this sort of longer-
duration vacation tourism for their survival. The ones who do it well will
thrive without too much change to their character (and without being colonized
by casino companies). And like I said in another comment, hotels are useless
for attracting this kind of tourism.

AirBNB should behave better, no doubt. And if they don't, they should be made
to behave through thoughtful regulation that doesn't endanger the economy and
character of places all over the country that are coming to depend on
travelers.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in
Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it.
Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad.

What I like about hotels is the consistency of service and cleanliness,
availability of nearby food or other services.

Don’t get me wrong: even though I’ve had some bad experiences with individual
hosts on Airbnb, overall many host rentals are nice too.

I just don’t understand your negative comments towards hotels. They pay their
taxes, they bear their own costs of demonstrating compliance with the law,
provide a good standard of safety, cleanliness and service.

Obviously the hotel lobbying sucks, but I don’t see how anyone can think it’s
worse than what Airbnb does. The hotel lobby is gaming a system in terms of
competition, but from within a system overall that is not trying to in
principle externalize all the burden onto citizens by skirting taxes.

Airbnb is doing something very different, trying to flip tax collection and
demonstration of compliance around to make it an optional nicety they choose
to extend to local governments on their own terms.

~~~
nate_meurer
> _I’ve spent a lot of summer trips hiking around small vacation towns in
> Colorado, and I’ve always found regular hotels to be a great way to do it.
> Occasionally I need to drive a bit more, but it’s not too bad._

That sounds nice, and it suits a lot of people just fine. But try doing that
with a family, and on a limited budget.

I'll give you an example: last year I "rented" my own place for a week with
family. We crammed thirteen of us into our house (it's properly equipped to
sleep 12 but we've never had that many aside from our own family). My father-
in-law took us out to dinner the first night, and we ate breakfast at
restaurants most mornings. The cost of food was likely over a thousand dollars
for the week, but it could easily have been double or triple that if we'd
eaten out every day. As it was, some of our money went to the local grocery
store instead of restaurants, and we were able to afford a week-long vacation
instead of just a weekend.

You can't do this in a hotel with mini-fridge and a microwave. If you want to
bring your family on a week-long vacation in the Colorado Mountains, and if
you're not wealthy, then you do it by renting my house, which has a full
kitchen, enough rooms, beds, and foldouts for a large family, and costs half
or even a quarter of what the same space a hotel would cost.

So it's not that hotels are worse than vacation rentals. They're just
different. They serve different markets. If places like mine didn't exist, the
groups and families that stay there aren't going to stay in hotels instead;
they're not going to come to this town at all, because hotels can't provide
comfortable longer-duration vacations that are also affordable for most
people.

This is extremely important for ski vacations. Skiing is expensive enough as
it is, that most people can afford just a few days a year with the hotel,
food, and fuel costs that come with it. But my place can make it downright
cheap in comparison.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
In a hotel room with an attached suite, this isn’t very hard. Most in the
group can stay in small economy rooms, then use the suite for group things or
big meals. My extended family (usually groups of 20+, with various budgets)
does this also for beach vacations to book oceanside hotels pretty cheaply,
and we also make use of shared spaces, like picnic areas or large table spaces
you can use for free at some lodges.

I’ve found that groceries in and around big ski centers are often much more
expensive than low-end takeout or a pizza.. plus you have to have someone in
the group spend time cooking and cleaning instead of just enjoying the trip.
Personally, if my budget was too limited to avoid that, or I couldn’t afford
one suite at the hotel, it would be a sign that it’s not a financially good
idea to plan the trip so soon and I should save money longer before going.

The trade-offs are different for everybody, which makes me feel like these
just-so anecdotes simply should just be omitted from any discussion about the
overall scumminess of Airbnb business practices & lobbying vs hotels.

~~~
nate_meurer
Hey, if you're ok with fast food and take-out, that's great. Nothing wrong
with that, and it gives you flexibility. But if you have to do it in a hotel
up here in the mountains, you'll still spend multiples more money than you
will at a place like mine -- a place that also gives you a full kitchen.

> _you have to have someone in the group spend time cooking and cleaning
> instead of just enjoying the trip_.

That person is me. I love to cook, and I assure you it's quite possible to
enjoy a vacation while making crepes for your friends. :)

> _it would be a sign that it’s not a financially good idea to plan the trip
> so soon and I should save money longer before going._

Or, if you were able to stay in a home instead of a hotel, you could save
enough money to make the trip affordable now, instead of waiting until later
in life to enjoy it.

It seems like you might just really like hotels. I think that's fine, and I
think a lot of people agree with you. Vacations are what you make of them, and
it sounds like you've really got your act together. I admire that. But it also
seems like you're trying to apply your own standards and experience generally
to everyone else. I'm pretty sure if you asked the folks who rented my place
for a week over Christmas what they think, they'll say they'd rather not pay
twice as much money for a couple of small hotel rooms in Dillon with no
kitchen. Because like it or not, that's my competition.

~~~
mlthoughts2018
> “Or, if you were able to stay in a home instead of a hotel, you could save
> enough money to make the trip affordable now, instead of waiting until later
> in life to enjoy it.”

I’m saying if I _need_ to book a house rental because saving on the margins
with home cooking might make or break my ability to afford the vacation, then
I clearly don’t have enough money for the trip to be a responsible purchase
until saving more.

So almost by definition, considerations that happen at exactly that margin
decision boundary aren’t very applicable for reasoning between the two
options.

> “That person is me. I love to cook, and I assure you it's quite possible to
> enjoy a vacation while making crepes for your friends. :)”

I love cooking too, but it ruins a vacation if I _have to_ cook, as opposed to
_getting to_ cook, particularly meaning I would spend much more on high-end
ingredients to make special meals that are much more expensive than eating at
even medium-quality restaurants.. plus you still end up wasting vacation time
on clean up and prep like chopping, or if things need to bake a while then
someone’s stuck in the kitchen potentially long before the meal.

Any way you look at it, unless you’re doing something like a cabin vacation
where _all_ the recreation is right in and around your lodging all day, then
needing to devote money and time to grocery shopping, prep, cooking and clean
up is a pretty expensive chore in terms of time & money to commit to during a
vacation. Clearly even if _some_ people like it, you can imagine a lot of
other people don’t see that as an effective trade-off.

~~~
nate_meurer
But marginal cost differences aren't what's driving demand for vacation
rentals. The difference in cost is huge, and there's no way around that in a
lot of tourist destinations. A nice vacation rental in my town that can sleep
a dozen people can be had for under $300 in the high season. Three hotel
rooms, with less space, smaller beds, and no kitchen, will cost you two to
three times that. Don't take my word for it; look at rates right now in and
around Dillon/Silverthorn. Connected suites and a kitchenette might be the
exclusive realm of luxury resort hotels, maybe a casino hotel if you're
willing to drive another hour or so, and the price will be higher yet.

We're pretty far in weeds here with talk of ingredients and prep and whatnot.
Like I said, for family accommodation, with the flexibility of a kitchen and
laundry, there is no competition of any kind from hotels in my neck of the
woods, and there probably never will be. It's not even close. My only
competition is from other vacation rentals, and all us little guys currently
contribute a big chunk of our town's tourism revenue.

------
unknownkadath
Nashville resident here.

A drunk airbnb user tried to break into a neighbor's house around 11 pm last
week while the residents were inside. He was lost and thought he was at his
rental, but that wasn't apparent to anyone else in the beginning, so my wife
gets a call for help from another neighbor and we go to check it out.

When we get there, we discover the assailant has been treed on a shed roof by
the woman whose door he had beaten on. She was home alone with her baby at the
time. She was (understandably) waving a ball-peen hammer at him and shouting.

Let's call him Trey.

Trey is around 6' 3" and a bit on the husky side. He is maybe 25 and he is
wearing a worn out Auburn hat and a nice polo shirt. Trey is crying and
refusing to speak to any of the small crowd that has gathered, some of whom
who are darkly muttering about burglars and drugs. Trey is talking into his
phone, quietly, holding it like a slice of pizza.

Trey has called his mom.

My SO and I figure out what has happened about the same time. "Hey buddy, are
you looking for your airbnb?" I called.

Luckily, we were able to de-escalate before Metro PD arrived or Trey was
beaten to death with a hammer by a 5' tall woman. It turns out that Trey had
given his Uber driver the wrong adress on the way home from Broadway; he was
supposed to be about one street over. We get a hold of the groom whose
bachelor party Trey was a part of, and the police give Trey a ride home.

So, that can happen.

~~~
bargl
This is the USA, I'm surprised he wasn't shot. Not joking at all, your story
is actually kinda funny but it could have gone so much worse at so many
points.

Is that AirBnB's fault? Is it the hosts fault? Is it the cities fault for not
regulating this? Is it our society's fault for allowing drinking to the point
of forgetting your address?

I think in the end it's just a series of unfortunate events, that give you a
really great anecdote, which might have turned out much worse. I wouldn't
claim this as evidence for or against AirBnB but man did it make me laugh.

Good on you for de-escalating the situation and keeping your head! Hopefully,
Trey had the decorum to apologize later on and try to make things right.

~~~
bluGill
Despite what the media tries to tell you, shooting people in the US is not
common. The media has an agenda on you thinking otherwise.

~~~
armitron
Chicago had 561 murders in 2018. That's 1.5 murders a day.

Chicago had 2948 shooting victims in 2018. That's 8 shooting victims a day.

[https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/chicago-murder-
total-2018-...](https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/chicago-murder-
total-2018-homicides-police-department/)

To someone living in Europe, these rates defy belief.

~~~
PHGamer
yea but its fucking chicago. inner cities suck in the us.

~~~
mneubrand
The vast majority of shootings in Chicago do not happen in the inner city (aka
the Loop). Most of these are on the South side and West side of the city

------
hannob
I find it really unfortunate that the airbnb debate is always so polarized.

AirBNB has often provided me a better alternative to a largely terrible hotel
market that often takes racket prices and makes me pay for services I don't
need. On the other hand I completely understand when people are annoyed about
party folk living in the flat above them or when they lack safety regulations
or don't pay the same taxes hotels do.

But none of that justifies an outright ban, there should be solutions to
regulate the bad while allowing the good. Make them pay hefty fees that they
may pass on to their customers if they violate night rest times. Make them
follow safety regulations and pay takes. (Yeah, that will make it more
expensive, but I can still avoid paying for daily room service I want to opt
out and sometimes even can't and 24/7 reception staff I don't need.)

~~~
munk-a
Airbnb has the ability to enforce these policies internally, which would come
with the bonus of not needing to lose money to local governments.

It's simply that they don't.

In much the same way that Uber skirts the laws of background checks, Airbnb
responds to complaints and attempts to introduce regulation with lawsuits. I
wish the Hotel and Cab markets were disrupted by companies that wanted to
optimize within the rules of the game, but they, either through lawsuits or
just ignoring laws, don't play in an even setting, these traditional companies
end up being burdened with more regulations than the "disrupters" adhere to.

~~~
xemdetia
Airbnb definitely has become a great example in the 'if you don't regulate
yourself as an industry you will become regulated whether you want to or not.'
Unlike some of the dynamics in some of the other industries the people that
airbnb exploits are individuals who rent/own property and every new airbnb
host is effectively having to relearn every problem and potential pitfall/cost
that hoteliers or seasoned short-term rental property owners have already
solved and priced accordingly. I feel like people don't give enough criticism
of Uber/Lyft/Airbnb of them profiting off people who aren't properly
evaluating their expenses as a business. Most of what they offer probably
should be more expensive than what they end up being but instead because
people aren't experienced enough to properly cost things and undervalue what
they are providing.

~~~
sokoloff
I hear that argument fairly consistently about Uber drivers, but I ask most of
my Uber drivers their experience on the platform. Almost every one of them
seems to have quite a good grasp of the economics that are relevant to their
situation.

They break down into 3 groups. The smallest are people between jobs. They're
doing something that's better than their best alternative.

The next largest group are the occasional drivers, meaning Uber is not their
main job. These people typically _already_ own a car, so the fixed costs are
leaving their pocket every month whether or not they drive ride sharing. Ride
sharing more than comfortably covers their variable costs, so they're making
money.

The largest group (in terms of rides given/taken, not in terms of drivers) are
people who are driving Uber essentially full-time. Many of them have bought a
car specifically for its Uber suitability (good gas mileage, low maintenance,
etc) and I think these drivers are properly thinking about their expenses
(because they're pretty compartmentalized).

I know it's common to think that the drivers are not fully and rationally
evaluating the value proposition that Uber offers, but I see pretty frequent
evidence to the contrary. There are fewer than 5% of people for whom I ask the
question who respond in a way that makes me think that they think their
predominant expense is "just gas money".

------
duxup
I lived a few doors down to someone who basically ran an ad hoc AirBnB ...
before Airbnb. It was pretty terrible. Parties all the time, trash, they
parked anywhere (in other people's driveways...) because there were likely no
long term consequences for doing so, the folks staying there didn't care
because why should they?

I was on the association board, it's kinda thankless job as we had to deal
with this house.

We got the usual riot act / pushback from the folks operating that short term
rental about how the association was terrible and oh man the government and
how we just were protecting hotels (like man, I don't have any connection to
hotels...). They tried to organize the other folks who rented out their places
(traditional long term rentals) to push us off the board, they actually got
several to go along with it, but they failed (it wasn't even close, we had a
limit on how many units could rent out at once anyway so they never were going
to have enough numbers).

In the end it was just a horrible situation to open up what was a hotel, right
in the middle of our association / neighborhood. Fortunately the law was on
our side and they eventually sold the unit and left.

Local governments are run by the locals and they should get to decide where
businesses like that operate and zone and so forth. The idea that Airbnb
should just get to be the almighty "disruptor" and land on your neighborhood
with no recourse is pretty absurd at face value, especially when the argument
is usually about how folks should have some freedom, but what they mean is
their freedom, not the communities.

~~~
dcosson
I mean, this just sounds to me like a pitch for AirBnB. They managed to solve
this exact problem you're complaining about via the rating system and guests
being attached to their real identity. The vast majority of AirBnB guests are
very respectful and reasonable.

As for your tight local control, fuck that. No, you shouldn't get to decide
exactly what happens in your neighborhood just because you got there first.
You don't own the neighborhood, you own single plot of land, and people who
want to buy other plots of land and collectively evolve the neighborhood in
new directions should have just as much of a right as you do.

~~~
eropple
I understand that there is this odd notion that every man is sui generis and
all, but you live in a society.

You can change the property under the purview of the association. It would be
stupid to assert that you cannot. _But_ you must win a vote to do so--and you
agree to adhere to the results of association votes by buying into the
property and into the association.

Such positive tyranny one must endure. Makes my heart break. But you have a
way out! You can always choose...to not buy a place with a condo association
or HOA.

(I didn't. Single-family home. Would recommend!)

~~~
dragonwriter
> I understand that there is this odd notion that every man is sui generis and
> all, but you live in a society.

I think you mean _sui iuris_ (legally autonomous) not _sui generis_ (a unique
case).

~~~
eropple
Yeah, you get me. It's been a while since I had to Latin in anger.

------
iandanforth
This seems like an overly critical article. Zoning laws and NIMBY impulses
_should_ be fought tooth-and-nail and I'm glad Airbnb is doing so. The
platform has allowed me to actually enjoy travel in ways I never could before.

What I feel like is missing is a communication path from the community to the
platform. Because people _start_ by calling the police to complain it
immediately becomes a legal and local ordinance issue. If it were easy to
report abuses to Airbnb directly, or if local police were instructed to
contact them, the platform could better regulate itself.

~~~
braythwayt
Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail? If I buy a house in a
neighbourhood full of single-family dwellings that are all one and two storeys
high, should I be able to build a condo building on my land?

Can I open a nightclub in my house?

What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as parking
spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their trash
in?

There's a tree on my boulevard. Can I cut the tree down and park a truck on
the boulevard?

I decided to run a grow-op in my house. When I turn the electricity on, the
lights fade in my neighbours houses because the load on my grow-up is so much
bigger than the equipment is designed to support.

Tough luck for my neighbours, correct?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>Why should zoning laws be fought tooth-and-nail?

Because infringing on people's right to do what they want with their property
deserves a hell of a lot more scrutiny than it gets right now. Trying to
centrally manage what can be done where doesn't scale. See SF housing prices.

>Can I open a nightclub in my house?

As long as it meets the standards that night clubs have to meet then sure.
You're unlikely to be able to do these things and be commercially successful
enough to subsity in primarily residential area.

>What about parking? Can I pave my front lawn and rent the space out as
parking spots? Or maybe put a dumpster there for local businesses to put their
trash in?

Sure. Just be aware that you might be on the hook if you do a half-assed
paving job and the runoff affects your neighbors. Once again if you truly are
in a residential area where this kind of thing is not appropriate you will
have a hard time being successful enough at it to annoy anyone who isn't
already annoyed by everything.

>There's a tree on my boulevard. Can I cut the tree down and park a truck on
the boulevard?

This is more complicated because you get into right of way issues and the city
usually has a pretty substantial right of way beside the road (sidewalk?) but
sure, if none of that is an issue then feel free to cut it down.

>I decided to run a grow-op in my house. When I turn the electricity on, the
lights fade in my neighbours houses because the load on my grow-up is so much
bigger than the equipment is designed to support.

If the power company was worried about QoS to the other customers on the
street they wouldn't give you the massive breaker you need for that operation.
If the neighbors are really bothered by it they can complain to the power
company and if they complain enough then it will get addressed. There is no
need for laws for this sort of thing. Once again if you're really in a
residential area you're unlikely to get that kind of service if you really are
somewhere it would be a problem. The power company has internal rules about
what service gets installed where (basically their own zoning) in order to
ensure that breakers on bigger equipment upstream are not tripped during times
of peak load.

~~~
sfotm
These examples vary in how outrageous they are, but some of them have the
ability to singlehandedly depreciate someone else's most valuable asset by
tens of thousands of dollars without any sort of recourse. Even if the
nightclub or parking ventures aren't successful you'll probably have a hard
time getting the same value out of that house.

And that's fine?

~~~
exolymph
Yeah. You have no right to ROI on any investment.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Agreed.

If you're buying the property for any purpose other than flipping then ROI
from the sale of the property itself shouldn't be a serious consideration.
Either you're living there and sale doesn't really matter so long as you don't
get shafted too badly whenever you do sell or you're renting or using it
commercially in which case the cost to acquire is sunk and the returns from
that should more than make up for change in value and whatever you get from a
sale at the end is just a bonus.

------
ThJ
I feel there is a difference between putting your home up for short term rent
while you're away versus buying multiple homes that you never stay in and
operating them as a self-service hotel. There's nothing wrong with this, but
if you run a business, you must file the appropriate paperwork and follow the
same rules as other businesses.

~~~
madaxe_again
I moved to my second home, as I left my business and had no particular reason
to stay put, and put my main home on the market as an Airbnb. A residential
let wasn’t an option as a) I need to stay there from time to time and b) it
wouldn’t cover the mortgage.

I’m a by-the-book guy when it comes to business, so registered the place as a
guest-house business premises with the council. They even remarked that I was
the first Airbnb operator to do this in over a year - and there are over a
thousand Airbnbs in town.

Because the place is under a certain rateable value, which is based on
location and size, it is eligible for a 100% rebate on business rates. I’d
gladly pay them were anything due, but nothing is.

So, not only am I in the clear with local government, but being so saves me
several thousand pounds a year.

------
jak92
Just look at the havoc being reigned on some neighborhoods in Miami Beach
during spring break. Specifically the low-scale, residential flamingo park
neighborhood of south beach.

~~~
joseph-curwen
Here is a story about Miami Beach:

I moved there 9 years ago and have spent the last 8 years living on Ocean
Drive in South Beach. When I first moved there the neighborhood was full of
high-class tourists, a lot of Europeans. The beach was not extremely crowded,
you had nice restaurants and upscale shops and the vibes you were getting were
similar to what you would see in the Mediterranean (Spain / south France).

Within 3 years of Airbnb expanding, the character of the neighborhood changed
completely. By 2014, a lot of restaurants and shops had closed down, to be
replaced by 5 dollar souvenir shops (surf style!), kebab and pizza places.
Noise levels increased dramatically. Crime too. This kept getting worse and
today I would describe the place as little more than a crime-ridden hood. The
ghetto criminal element is numerous and ever present. The classy European
tourists have left, never to return. Ocean Drive is barricaded by tons of
police every weekend (soon to be every night). The beach itself is full of
trash and drunken, noisy, unruly people. Spring Break (and memorial day
weekend) used to be finite events. Now the same chaos is happening every
night. Street racing, fights, urinating in public, condoms, dog and human
feces on sidewalks, all of that and more under a lingering stench of weed
smoke.

If that's not testament to how Airbnb can ruin entire communities, I don't
know what is.

The locals are complaining [1], [2] but nothing seems to change except more
money being thrown at police and local interests.

[1] [https://www.facebook.com/Residents-for-a-safe-Ocean-
Drive-13...](https://www.facebook.com/Residents-for-a-safe-Ocean-
Drive-135827450383203)

[2]
[https://www.facebook.com/SouthBeachSludgeReport/](https://www.facebook.com/SouthBeachSludgeReport/)

[3] [https://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-spring-breakers-
atta...](https://wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-spring-breakers-attacking-
man-on-south-beach-street-amid-crackdown/)

Typical night in SOBE.

~~~
yardie
I grew up in Miami and Miami Beach since the 80s. Miami Beach, and Ocean Drive
have never been what you described. When I lived there fights, shootings, and
prostitution was quite flagrant on Ocean. Before being redeveloped into
million dollar condos, SoFi was a ghetto.

Spring Break is fairly new to the area. Prior to that the college students
would hit Daytona, Panama City, or Key West. And long before that Fort
Lauderdale was the Spring Break destination (showing my age).

The traditional family-owned restaurants started being driven out in 2014, to
be replaced by new investor backed concepts because the rent was too high.
Joe's Stone Crabs owns it spot and isn't going anywhere, I can't say the same
for the restaurants around it. AirBnB didn't cause restaurants to close,
speculators did.

Finally, it is the season of the snowbird. Every beach is packed with foreign
tourists staying in their vacation homes on 6 month visas. When June arrives
they'll leave, they always do.

Also, prior to this spring break there was only a few reasons to go to Ocean,
Spring Break, Memorial Day, and Fourth of July. Now, city council and local
organizations have planned street festivals basically every weekend between
here and eternity.

All to say that very little of what's going on on Ocean Dr has anything to do
with AirBnB.

~~~
joseph-curwen
First of all the 80s were close to 40 years ago. How about the period
2000-2010? What did change after 2010 that wasn't there before? Miami Beach
was always a touristy place. Spring Break and Memorial Day were always rowdy
affairs.

And when I talked about shop/restaurants closing I emphasized their
replacements. It's one thing for restaurants to close in Miami Beach (happens
every year). It's quite another for same restaurant to close and be replaced
by a kebab or pizza place. Entire streets that were lined with upscale shops
have been turned into cash extraction mechanisms for unsophisticated, drunken
passers by. What does that tell you about the character of the neighborhood?

Today's SOBE bears little resemblance to SOBE of the pre-Airbnb past.

~~~
jak92
The carnival like open air entertainment district on ocean drive.

~~~
joseph-curwen
It certainly was a factor. As was "black beach week" [1]. The Clevelander and
Mango's were there in 2010 however, as was urban day weekend (as it was called
then) long before Airbnb came to town. The situation started to rapidly
decline after Airbnb enabled masses of low-class, unruly crowds to come to
town and party, every day of the week. Every weekend of the year is a
carnival-like orgy of debauchery now.

[1]
[http://www.blackbeachweek.com/urbanbeachweek1.html](http://www.blackbeachweek.com/urbanbeachweek1.html)

------
temp23894
Airbnb is such a racket, and it annoys me that they haven't historically been
given the same critical treatment that Uber has. In many ways, it's way more
discriminatory and more damaging to residents of a city and almost the
complete opposite of Uber/Lyft (which benefits residents and visitors alike).

The only people Airbnb benefits in a given city are the landlords/hosts. It's
not a "neutral" effect on other residents - it either crowds out supply that
could otherwise go to a full-time resident or creates a safety/quality of life
issue for neighbors who live adjacent to these properties that are being
constantly filled with strangers.

------
turc1656
Any time anyone says they "want to pay taxes", you know they are lying. No one
anywhere _wants_ to pay - no one looks forward to it.

Not that I'm a fan of big government, but I don't understand why, if they
really are just ignoring the law in most jurisdictions (which they are), none
of these states just issue arrest warrants for the people in charge of these
decisions? Why isn't there an outstanding warrant for the CEO of AirBnB from
any one of the 50 US states for flagrant tax evasion? Or even going further to
actually request the state where that CEO is present in to be arrested and
extradited to that state? The CEO can't possibly claim they didn't know this
was an issue. So then the battle will be forced in court for them to prove
that they weren't responsible for collecting the tax _and_ that if instead the
property owners were in fact responsible, that AirBnB wasn't guilty of
facilitating criminal tax evasion.

I'm sick and tired of these Silicon Valley companies deciding that their big
idea is to decentralize so that they can ignore regulations and licensing
requirements by saying "we're just a platform, the users need to do that".
Same bullshit with Uber claiming their drivers aren't employees but rather
"independent contractors", even though Uber sets all the rules, prices, etc.
I've never heard of an independent contractor who can't determine how much
they charge.

Similarly, these AirBnB places aren't legally zoned for the activity they are
engaging in, nor are virtually any of the property owners licensed to do
business as a lodging facility or registered and authorized to collect the
occupancy taxes. AirBnB knows this and the grand scale of the illegal
activity, at bare minimum, proves that the purpose of the platform is to
circumvent the laws/regulations but not with an actual loophole, just by
ignoring them and hoping they can grow fast enough so that they aren't just
shut down hard.

~~~
Xylakant
I, as an individual want to lay taxes and I want them to be put to good use. I
also think my income bracket pays too little taxes.

I want a thriving, stable society and I’m well aware on an intellectual level
that if faced with the constant decision whether I should donate here or
donate there or pay more for child-care so that they can subsidize people with
less income, I’ll become overwhelmed and fail. I already fail at deciding if
and where to direct an end of year donation.

A thriving society needs money to serve all the needs that a thriving society
has: infrastructure, education, governance, just to name a few. I don’t always
agree how and where tax money is spent. I also sometimes feel cheated when
paying taxes, but more often than not it’s because I see someone else,
possibly a large Corp such as AirBnB actively avoid paying their due share.

So please, make me pay taxes, but make everyone else pay theirs.

~~~
turc1656
" _make me pay taxes, but make everyone else pay theirs "_ If you _want_ to
pay, as you stated, no one needs to force you. That was the point of my
original statement. It sounds like you approve, in general, of the tax
structure and the manner in which money is spent - which is totally fine. But
no one needs to make you do anything that you already claim to want to do. To
be clear, it sounds like you want what the taxes pay for and that's entirely
different than wanting to pay. Paying is just a reality that we have to with.
When I go to a restaurant, I want the food. I don't want to pay, it's just a
requirement of obtaining what I desire. If for some reason the restaurant told
me my meal was free, I would never be like "oh, no no. I _want_ to pay you for
this meal".

If you really want to pay taxes and feel the tax rate for your bracket is too
low, you are more than welcome to make a donation to the treasury at any time:
[https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454](https://www.pay.gov/public/form/start/23779454)

You can also skip claiming deductions on your tax return to increase your
liability and reduce/eliminate your refund (assuming you get one). This also
eliminates the stress related to the end of year donations you mentioned.

~~~
jonnycoder
It also sounds like he wants to pay higher taxes but only if that means
forcing others to pay higher taxes, otherwise he could simply do as you
suggested and pay more via less deductions, etc. It seems like a common
leftist ideal, where in example, celebrities and politicians decry fossil
fuels in the name of global warming but do absolutely nothing to set an
example -- even doing the opposite.

------
matchbok
AirBnb is a terrible, terrible company. Most of their money comes from
corporate-owned mini-hotels yet they advertise as a mom and pop shop.

At every turn their solution is to sue small towns and cities so they can
continue to extract wealth from our neighborhoods.

Disgusting.

~~~
mbostleman
What is a corporate owned mini-hotel? I am a fairly frequent Airbnb consumer
and I have yet to stay somewhere that wasn't mom and pop.

~~~
TheHypnotist
There are a few mini-hotels - properties with more than one room. How many are
corporate owned is undetermined. This guy is just bitter about something,
perhaps rightfully so.

Or maybe just vote manipulation.

~~~
matchbok
Incorrect. Most of AirBnBs profit comes from units that do not have the owner
present. Aka a hotel.

~~~
TheHypnotist
Not only is that not the definition of hotel, you seem to think this carries a
negative connotation?

~~~
matchbok
Yes, that's a hotel. You have "home-sharing" and hotels. Just because it's a
single house does not make it less of a hotel.

------
Obsnold
I used to live in a flat where I was the only permanent resident on the floor
and the rest were Airbnbs. My life was hell while I lived there. I don't think
most people realise what a massive negative impact these places have on the
people living near by. Even if you are a good guest you may not think you are
having a negative impact but you are.

I think tourists have to understand that when they use Airbnb they are giving
a massive middle finger to the locals. You do not have a right to a cheap
holiday and it should not come at the expense of those just trying to live
their lives.

This was in Hong Kong if anyone was wondering so all the America specific
issues don't apply.

~~~
RankingMember
Can you elaborate on what made it so bad?

------
nkingsy
The reporting on New Orleans is frustrating. They quote city officials
complaining about the registration system being shut down and losing years of
work, and they quote Airbnb saying that the system was shut down because the
city changed the law and made it ineffective.

Seems like the journalist could've figure out what really happened here and
just reported it rather than printing two conflicting accounts and wiping
their hands of it.

------
frontloadpro
Edit, it was shut down because my local area has a rule against bed and
breakfasts that aren't located on a main road.

Our Airbnb got shut down after a year by the local government. It wasn't a
safety thing, it was a competition thing. Our Red Roof Inn charges 60 a night,
but we charged 80 a night.

Our reviews could make me tear up. People saying they had the best stay of
their life.

Asking them what they wanted for breakfast, hot tub temp, Nerf guns, and
chatting. People loved it.

But we stopped. Government....

~~~
simias
There are many cities in Europe where AirBnB and similar services are a plague
for locals. I'm sure it's great for tourists though.

First we couldn't buy and we were forced to rent because wealthy folks would
buy the real estate in bulk to rent it and/or use it as a speculative
investment, driving prices up and making it unafordable. Now they don't even
bother to rent it long-term to locals, they're better off putting it on AirBnB
for tourists at a much higher rate. Try renting a flat long-term in Lisbon
these days and tell me how it goes.

I obviously don't know your situation and maybe there was some overreach in
your case but in some cities government meddling is absolutely necessary lest
the place turns into a Disneyland resort for wealthy tourists.

~~~
drstewart
Sounds like an easy solution. Raze all the vacant hotels that surely have been
put under by the lack of demand as it shifts to Airbnb and make those
apartments you can buy instead.

~~~
pjc50
The hotels usually remain full. There's a huge pent-up demand for tourism.

~~~
drstewart
Now you get it. Airbnb is providing a service there's a huge demand and need
for, not some evil provider that's forcing something down people's throats.

~~~
simias
You're being obtuse. It's simply a case of a tragedy of the commons, the
commons in this case being available real-estate. Paris is already one of the
densest cities in the world, if you add more tourist lodgings you have to push
somebody else out.

Besides you make it sound like enabling more tourism is unambiguously a good
thing. It's true that it has positive side-effects (mostly on the economy) but
it also leads to degradation, overcrowding and, as we were discussing, an
explosion of the cost of life for the locals. I often hear tourists
complaining that they don't get an "authentic" experience abroad, how could
they when the place they visit have been deserted by the locals?

------
sonnyblarney
I think hotel zoning should be loosened and maybe some of the regs.

There's clearly demand.

I don't buy the idea hotels are disruptive, in my urban community there are
zero, but tons of commercial space there'd be no problem at all with one
across the street.

In fact, it'd be good for business. Tons of offices, zero hotel space. Not
good.

Some innovation in management i.e. no checkin, cleaner only come when you've
gone, etc. etc. and we might get some material efficiencies.

------
Giorgi
Meh, Anti-Airbnb people are just bunch of crybabies, jealous of some regular
mom and pop shops making ends meet.

------
paulcnichols
I love that hostcompliance.com exists. Capitalism at work.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
The more I look at AirBnb, it reality it seems like a conspiracy to enable
illegal activity (illegal listings, not collecting taxes). I wonder if in the
future, a US Attorney or State Attorney General will attempt to bring criminal
charges against the principals of the company. The threat of real jail time
would do wonders to get their attention.

~~~
frontloadpro
The illegal listings is crony capitalism. Hotels don't want to compete.

And tax evasion is a completely different topic, that is not why Airbnbs are
shut down. Every industry has tax problems.

~~~
RcouF1uZ4gsC
The illegal listing is not just about hotels, it is about neighbors who don't
want to deal with vacationers and parties and disruption.

~~~
visarga
It seems they want to enjoy travelling to other cities while blocking other
travellers from coming to their city. Same with Waze traffic being routed on
previously less known streets.

~~~
TeMPOraL
No, they just want travelers to sleep in places designated for travelers. This
wouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't a real problem - a well-behaved group
of transients is near-unnoticeable in a neighbourhood and by definition
doesn't disturb anybody.

Another problem is that the proliferation of this practice seems to be
disturbing the already tense situation on the housing market. Meeting an odd
couple from the other side of the world is fun. Realizing that you can't find
affordable flat to buy in a city because a significant portion of it is
scooped up for renting and short-term leases - that drives up societal
discontent.

~~~
jimmaswell
Why is this crowd suddenly all for restrictive zoning when it comes to AirBnB,
yet zoning is evil NIMBYism otherwise?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Being for AirBnB not driving illegal behaviour != being in favour of zoning.
Those two concerns are orthogonal. Empathizing with other people's legitimate
issues doesn't imply being pro-zoning either.

~~~
jimmaswell
It seemed like you were in favor of corralling travelers into designated zones
and took an issue with residential areas being used for short term leases.

------
Simulacra
I think AirBnb is a wonderful, wonderful company. I don't want to stay in a
hotel, and I don't want all of the hotel problems, including price. I value
Airbnb's competition and think they are trying to do the best they can.
Looking back at my history, 39 interactions across the country and not a
single problem.

------
stcredzero
_To be sure, these aren’t Airbnb’s taxes, any more than Hilton “pays” taxes
for its guests’ hotel stays. Rather, the officials sparring with Airbnb want
the company to collect and forward the taxes from guests, much as hotels do._

So this is local governments trying to railroad an online
information/marketplace/intermediation firm into becoming a tax collector. The
local governments can't practically collect the taxes, so they're extra-
legally trying to bully AirBNB into doing it.

Business models are changing along with the societal changes in communications
technology. Governments are pretending to themselves that this isn't a
society-level change they should adapt to. (How would collecting such taxes be
much different from collecting sales taxes?)

~~~
drugme
_So this is local governments trying to railroad an online information
/marketplace/intermediation firm into becoming a tax collector._

It's not "railroading", it's called "the regulated collection of reasonable
usage fees." It's how cities are run, and have always been run.

If Airbnb doesn't like it -- they don't need to go into the hospitality
business in these places.

~~~
jak92
> _the hospitality business_

but they're a _technology_ company!

~~~
evilotto
McDonald's is a real estate company. That doesn't mean they don't sell
burgers.

