
Apple showing signs it may soon launch a search engine - ziodave
https://www.coywolf.news/seo/apple-search-engine/
======
dividedbyzero
I hope they do – Google is far, far, far too dominant in this space, and
small-ish incumbents don't really stand a chance. If they keep up their
privacy-friendly stance, this could really become something neat. I'd like for
at least a little bit of competition in the gatekeeper-for-human-knowledge
space.

~~~
mgh2
I honestly don't like my search results mingled with the advertising industry:
there is bias in all results, you can't trust in information if it is not
impartial. People used to create content to advance knowledge, but the amount
of crap nowadays motivated my money (even if it is good quality) concerns me
about the education of the human civilization as a whole. "The love of money
(greed) is the root of all evil": Google, Amazon, Facebook all are already
deep down this hole. Apple might be the only company that still has some
decency left.

~~~
elihu
I think there's a great opportunity now for a new search engine that evaluates
the general spamminess of a site, and then punishes sites that link to spammy
sites.

~~~
tweetle_beetle
This has already been in place for a long time. So much so in fact that you
used to be able to attack a sites rankings by creating, or stealing, many low
quality sites and publishing links on them to the victim's site. The victim,
if they were lucky enough to know about theses things, would then have to
create a Search Console account (for Google) and declare that the sites have
nothing to do with them and Google should ignore them for ranking purposes.

These days there are more attributes to add subtlety to your outbound links of
you want the search engines to take you seriously.[1] I'm sure other search
engines make similar judgements based on them.

[1]
[https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/96569?hl=en](https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/96569?hl=en)

~~~
elihu
I was aware of that, and it's exactly backwards. Google is punishing sites for
having low-quality sites point to them (even if they have no control of them).
What I'm suggesting is the opposite, that a site be punished for its outward
links, if they point to low-quality sites.

(One could do this separately for various kinds of undesirable content and let
the users choose whether they want to avoid spam, hate speech, plagiarized
content, nsfw content, misinformation, Rick Astley videos, and so on.)

------
adoxyz
If it's anything like Siri, I'll pass.

Went back to the iOS ecosystem last year after being in Android/Google land
for the past decade. I used Google Assistant on a daily basis easily 20-30
times and 99% of the time it got me what I needed. Siri can't even do a 1/10th
of the things I used GA for, and that 1/10th that it does, it does so poorly
that I don't even bother anymore.

~~~
adwww
What sort of tasks were you using GA for?

I use mine to turn a smart plug on or off, and set a timer when cooking.

Nothing else I've ever wanted to do via my Pixel 2 is reliable enough to waste
time trying.

Sending a WhatsApp while driving is the one thing I keep wanting to do, but
it's hopeless.

~~~
nostrademons
[Disclaimer: I work on Google Assistant. I just started though; I'm much more
of a user than an engineer at this point.]

I use it a lot for media stuff. "Play <song> by <band>", "Watch <TV show> on
Netflix", etc. My wife is very fond of the combined alarm + YouTube
functionality: "Wake me up at 7:00 AM with deep meditation music". My toddler
has learned to say "Hey Google watch videos of dump trucks". I use it a bunch
for basic productivity stuff too: "What's my agenda for today?" "What's my
agenda for tomorrow?" "Check my e-mail".

~~~
punnerud
My toddler can’t turn Google Home on. He have probably tried over 300 times
the last year. Seems like it is not trained on enough child voices in foreign
languages. I had to record my voice for him on the iPad, so he can use it.
Just with the short “Hey Google”, in Norwegian.

He pronounces it correct. The only difference is the high pitch/tone of a
child.

~~~
nostrademons
I've had reliability problems with my toddler as well, and I suspect it's the
treble voices. My primary device (for him) is an LG TV, though, which is push-
to-talk. As long as he holds the mic up to his mouth properly it'll usually
get what he's saying. (It probably also helps that he's speaking American
English).

I don't think my Nest Hub Max or Google Home Mini has ever caught the "Hey
Google" when he says it, but it doesn't really matter for our use-cases with
him.

~~~
frio
I wonder if it's by design? If I was building a home assistant product, one of
the cases I'd build defensively against would be kids saying "hey google
delete all emails"...

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when Alexa/Google/Siri started coming out in
home-accessible versions, I did think there was a beat missing in terms of
recognising a voice-print (if such a thing is possible) or similarly requiring
some form of authentication.

------
akmarinov
No, thanks.

Apple is notoriously horrible when it comes to localization: Apple Maps
(localization, regional maps, regional traffic data, turn by turn), iOS
supported languages, Siri supported languages, their new Apple Translate that
only has 7-8 languages, Spotlight suggestions, etc.

They're also very slow to expand their services, I think Apple News still only
supports 4 countries.

Just buy DuckDuckGo

~~~
djxfade
Yeah, as a non US citizen, this annoys me. Every year Apple announce a new
cool feature, but I won't be able to use it for years. Like a lot of the Maps
features, the News app, the better predictive keyboard, etc.

Apple is the most valuable company in the world, they really have no excuse.

~~~
Tsarbomb
I mean they are doing something right if people are willingly buying their
products while fully knowing they are deficient in features.

------
phenylene
Maybe Apple could use it to search for wherever their developer documentation
went.

------
giarc
Scott Galloway talked about this in a recent Pivot Podcast. He predicts it
will launch after the US DOJ announces anti-trust actions against Google. If
they do it soon, Google will just point to Apple to say "We aren't the only
game in town... this $2 trillion dollar company just launched a search engine
on a few billion phones/tablets/PCs around the world." They have reason to
wait.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
Monopolist in one market refrains from competing in another market in order to
weaponize antitrust investigation into competitor from a third market.

~~~
Paul-ish
There is not guarantee that Apples search engine will succeed. It would be
suck if it stuck around just long enough for Google to use it as a fig leaf.

~~~
three_seagrass
Exclusive access to a walled garden will certainly help.

------
machello13
> It is clear that Apple has started to return search results within Spotlight
> Search and is completely bypassing Google altogether.

This isn't new in iOS 14, Spotlight has had a basic web search (supported by
Apple's crawler) for several years.

~~~
snazz
Same with Siri Suggestions, although they may be taking on a larger role in
iOS 14 and macOS Big Sur.

~~~
machello13
Right — this article seems pretty uninformed. I don't think there's a reason
to believe Apple is any closer to launching a search engine now than they were
3 years ago.

~~~
zenexer
There is. They’ve started crawling much more aggressively, similar to how
Googlebot and Bingbot crawl. Coincidentally, I mentioned to a friend that I
thought Apple was preparing to launch a search engine just yesterday.

------
onion2k
It's always a tempting story - Apple have the resources, they could make a lot
of money from making it the Safari and iOS default, and they're pushing in to
services for growth, but people have been suggesting that Apple will launch a
search engine "soon" for at least a decade. It hasn't happened yet and there's
no particularly significant reason to believe it'll happen now.

That said, it would be nice if Google had some proper competition to drive
innovation for once. Search really hasn't changed in any fundamental _or even
noticeable_ way for a long time.

~~~
uniqueid
My take is that the timing is perfect, so the rumor is likely true, but that
Apple is going to screw it up royally.

This is a great time for a big competitor to start a search engine. Google's
reputation and search quality aren't what they used to be. Google is also in a
MS antitrust situation, where they have to fight with a hand behind their
back.

If Apple were to work with others to set up some sort of "search foundation,"
I'll bet its search product could mop up a lot of the search market. As a
result, Apple would have more leverage over Google, and more momentum. They'd
have some measure of control over the user experience, even via a shared
"foundation".

But that's not what is going to happen!

Apple management is going to release some weird, overly strategic product with
Apple-branding all over it. Users don't want a "Siri" or "Spotlight" or
"Apple" branded search engine (assuming Apple isn't so deliriously drunk on
"clever strategy" that they don't make search an "app" instead of a webpage).
It will also detract from Apple's "privacy" messaging, because they'll not
only be pushing users aggressively to store all their data in iCloud, but also
appear to have access to users' search histories.

I think Apple's search engine is going to fail horribly, despite fate giving
them a golden opportunity to plough into Google's market. Apple is going to
"sherlock" itself.

~~~
foobarian
Unless they also build an ad network to go with the search engine this will be
a money sink and nobody good will want to work on it. Internal incentives will
line up such that it will be guaranteed to languish.

------
cblconfederate
But Apple's model is selling premium products and a search is a massive
expense for apparently zero benefit to them (they wouldn't launch ads would
they?). Plus their web results will probably be strictly censored and say
goodbye to open web. It would be a nice dream though, google having some
serious competition.

~~~
hellofunk
They are transitioning as iPhone sales stabilize.

[https://www.barrons.com/articles/apple-stock-services-
busine...](https://www.barrons.com/articles/apple-stock-services-business-
iphone-devices-outperform-rating-51590087110)

It’s not all about the hardware anymore.

~~~
cblconfederate
there's no way they 'll make the premiums they have with software. There isn't
even content with such margins.

~~~
coopsmgoops
Guess they should just do nothing then? Diversity in buisness is important.
And Google has a whole pie from which apple can steal a big chunk of. Simply
set apple search to be the default on safari and you immediately have a huge
chuck of the market.

~~~
cblconfederate
not in a premium business. in fact diversity may be a bad thing there, as
evidenced by the highly limited number of apple computer models. I don't think
they want to become the next Samsung

------
sroussey
How would apple monetize this search engine?

I don’t completely trust Apple with doing ads as they already do plenty of
self-dealing with their own ad system.

If anything, they should jedison their ad product altogether.

~~~
snowwrestler
Presumably the same way they monetize Siri.

~~~
ehsankia
Siri is an exclusive feature of iPhones, that's how it's "monetized". This is
unlike GA which is available on iOS [0]. So unless this search engine is
exclusive to iPhone users as a way of "keeping their privacy intact", I don't
see how they can justify running a free search engine for everyone.

[0] [https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/google-
assistant/id1220976145](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/google-
assistant/id1220976145)

~~~
snowwrestler
Yeah, I think if Apple launches their own search engine, it will take the form
of a change that results in Apple handling more searches from Apple devices
themselves.

Kind of like Apple Maps, which "competes" with Google Maps but only on Apple
devices. You can't just point any web browser at an Apple Maps website the way
you can with Google Maps. I doubt that Apple would launch a search engine that
you can just browse to from anywhere like Google or Bing.

------
aazaa
Apple's MO is vertical integration. So this only makes sense in the context of
a vertical integration play. The article talks about some of ways a search
engine could integrate with existing products, but they don't seem very
compelling.

On that score, this doesn't look like it will happen, despite appearances.

On the other hand, if Apple is also working on another, secret, project that
would integrate well with search, that would be a different matter.

------
altdatathrow
It’s going to suck for the e-commerce sites who have to pay Apple 30%
commissions to be listed in their web directory.

------
blazar
Finally, a way to opt out of AMP links on Safari -.-

~~~
gerash
Yay! no AMP!

Every news article will be exclusively published to Apple News, all websites
will have to switch to Apple Sign-in, users will need to pay $100 / yr to
"cover the cost" of running Apple crawlers and all websites will pay 30% of
their revenue to Apple to stay listed.

~~~
lern_too_spel
Apple News links are the worst. They hide the source of the article and make
me wait for a redirect before I can read the article. Why does Apple News
share that apple.news link instead of a link to the underlying article? Just
to track me? What are they hiding in that path string?

------
jdeibele
Google Maps is slightly superior to Apple Maps but the gap continues to narrow
and it's possible that Apple will pull ahead. The competition between the two
means that it's important for new features to be added and incorrect data to
be fixed.

On the other hand, Apple's search in the App Store app is so bad that I use
DDG or Google to search for apps.

~~~
Hamuko
> _Google Maps is slightly superior to Apple Maps but the gap continues to
> narrow and it 's possible that Apple will pull ahead._

How many places does Apple Maps have their version of Street View for?

~~~
alfalfasprout
Not sure, but at least for me street view is the least useful part of a map
application. Battery usage is _much_ better in Apple Maps, the turn by turn
directions are on average better now (Google maps used to lead by a longshot
maybe a year or so ago), and it's less invasive to my privacy.

------
tyingq
Would they likely just tie it tightly to Apple devices, or would they also
expose it as a regular web site?

------
yalogin
Have a feeling this is just syndication taking cue from Scott Galloway's
recent podcasts. He has been saying at least over his last two pods that Apple
is going to launch a search engine.

------
CarbyAu
I hope they do so that aggregate searchers have another option.

I want a search engine I can use the search term "rockets" to get me actual
fire breathing rockets rather than some US sports team...

~~~
twiceaday
I want a search engine that is optimized for completing my task and leaving
quickly rather than ever-increasing engagement. When I search for something
and its not there I don't want pages of unrelated-but-popular garbage, I just
want to see a 'no' so I can move on.

------
colinbartlett
If privacy is the focus, could Apple acquire Duck Duck Go and get a head
start? Or is there no reason to get a head start when you have virtually
unlimited resources?

~~~
greendude29
Oh god I hope not. I use DDG as my full time search engine. I don't need Apple
coming in, limiting it to their walled garden and ruining it.

You might be onto something though since DDG and Apple signed a deal on the
default maps for DDG.

~~~
jjcon
DDG is just bing reskinned for the most part so I sincerely doubt Apple would
be interested in it

------
devinl
~1/5 of Apple's Services revenue comes from having google be the default
search ($9-10B per year), so I wonder if this new search will coincide with
them ramping up their own search ads business
[[https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/15/apple-ad-
revenue/](https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/15/apple-ad-revenue/)]

~~~
stock_toaster
Could be that contract is up for renewal? Google seemed like it was going to
stop paying Mozilla this year, then changed their mind. Threat of building a
search engine competitor could just be part of contract negotiation (a BATNA).

~~~
lern_too_spel
Or they could just say they'll use Bing instead. That's cheaper, provides a
better experience for their users than their own search engine, and is a
stronger threat to Google if they want Google to increase payment by
encouraging more ad dollars chasing big spenders to go to Bing.

------
rising-sky
If this eventually bears out in reality, will not be surprised if they make an
attempt to buy DuckDuckGo since they align on privacy as a business model.
However, I'm not certain how I would feel about the concentration in a few
large players, which would be the outcome of that, although it sounds like it
might increase rather than decrease the level of competition...

~~~
jjcon
I doubt they would buy ddg since it is entirely reliant on Microsoft’s bing.

------
toper-centage
I feel like this will hurt small companies developing Bing-based engines more
than it will hurt Google.

------
salimmadjd
Apple's spellchecker/autocorrect is horrible compared to google's.

When you type anything in google, very often with very high accuracy suggests
the correct spelling.

I believe the search engine data can go a long way in helping apple improve
basic stuff like spell checker and auto correction.

------
HumblyTossed
Why don't they invest heavily in DDG? They don't _have_ to have their own.

~~~
Kiro
They don't need DDG for that. They can just use the Bing API like DDG does.

------
azinman2
This is so silly. It’s already launched! It’s the “Siri Suggested Website”.
It’s already there in spotlight and Safari. Those links come from an Apple
crawler! There’s no mystery.

------
throwawaysea
Will Apple curate, police, and censor their search results like they do the
App Store? While I welcome competition for google, I really wish it was from
some other players.

------
mark_l_watson
re: ""iOS and iPadOS 14 beta bypasses Google Search with Spotlight Search""

I just updated my iPad Pro to the latest 14 beta this morning, tried
Splotlight search, and I didn't see this effect.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I look forward to a privacy respecting search from
Apple.

------
li4ick
Makes sense. If they're really serious about Siri they need a high-quality
search engine.

------
chanmad29
Assuming Apple is going to let go the $12B+ that Google pays to remain as the
default search.

~~~
justusthane
The article covers that.

------
pcdoodle
Cool, do I have to pay 30% of my revenue to show up in the search results?

------
bitxbit
Wish Apple would release a GPU line. A man can dream right?

~~~
modeless
Uh, they have? It's in every iPhone and iPad and iPod and Apple TV and Apple
Watch, and coming soon to Mac. Of course you'll never be able to get it in a
PC.

------
brentos99
30% for all transactions done on Apple search

------
jacquesm
Will this be before or after that Apple car?

