

Chicago Sun-Times will train reporters on ‘iPhone photography basics’ - shawndumas
http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/214954/sun-times-will-train-reporters-on-iphone-photography-basics/

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kfury
Will they teach their journalists how to take shallow depth-of-field shots and
long telephoto shots with their iPhones? Probably not, since you can't.

Given the 'yes and' style of derivative news reporting commonplace today, the
Sun-Times might be more effective firing the writers, keeping the
photographers, and teaching them actual journalism.

~~~
potatolicious
Photojournalism has never been about depth-of-field shots nor long telephoto
shots. Photojournalism has always been primarily wide, deep depth of field,
and more about lighting and composition than anything else.

Shooting "real" photojournalism with an iPhone is more than doable. Hell, the
iPhone's field of view is a 28mm equivalent, which is perfect for
photojournalism.

I don't disagree with the overall point about the failure of photojournalism,
but photojournalism has _never_ been about the capabilities of the camera.

~~~
kfury
And my comment wasn't about photojournalism. Thinking journalists can become
photojournalists by telling them to snap pictures (with their phone or with
professional glass) is even more ridiculous than the Sun-Times is being.

Don't conflate News Photography with Photojournalism. The second is a subset
of the first. News Photography is a field that requires greater diversity than
'being there at f/8 (in daylight, with a fast lens and a ready camera)'.

There are sports photographers, portrait photographers, close subject
photographers, artistic photographers and, yes, photographers who need to be
on the scene at breaking events, where a wide shot and being close are key.

I agree with everything you said, but it doesn't negate anything I said.

~~~
hnriot
it does negate what you said, you argued that shallow depth of field and
telephoto shots were what's needed, and this is wrong, as was pointed out.

~~~
kfury
Read it again, and note that not all news photography is photojournalism.

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ctdonath
To abandon skilled photographers with quality equipment because of a few great
photos by unskilled people using poor equipment is to miss a salient point: We
notice great photos taken with poor cameras by unskilled photographers because
sheer volume will produce a few worth noting; what isn't noticed is the many
great photos which don't exist because equipment and/or user was unable to
make the picture happen.

~~~
kevinmchugh
This is known as the survivorship bias. More about that here:
<http://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/05/23/survivorship-bias/>

~~~
Tloewald
Really it's the Availabilih Heuristic, of which survivor bias is merely a
specific case.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic>

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mcphilip
Playing the devil's advocate here.

What is wrong with the Sun-Times making this decision if it is shown that
having a staff trained in 'iPhone photography basics' allows the ST to cut
costs without hurting revenue? An iconic photo (e.g. Tank Man photo [1])
opportunity is a black swan event, after all.

[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man>

~~~
astrodust
Why not go one further and train their staff to search Flickr and Twitter for
images instead?

What about firing all the editors and teaching the writers to do that
themselves?

Get rid of all the janitorial staff and mandate everyone spend more time
cleaning up.

~~~
kfury
You think you're using hyperbole but many articles going out nowadays never
get read by an editor who actually edits for tone, readability, spelling, or
even accuracy.

And the janitorial staff? You might be surprised to know how many of the
actual journalistic sites you read don't even have offices, or at least not
ones with desks for writers. Most of these people work at home.

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ShabbyDoo
Via eBay, I bought some 50's thru 70's era Chicago SunTimes vintage 8x10 file
prints. Apparently, someone acquired their physical archives? The skill of
photo journalists in those days was astounding. There were beautifully
composed photos of the 1968 riots -- while people were rioting! I'm not
suggesting that today's PJ's aren't as skilled, but it's certainly easier with
a DSLR.

~~~
snogglethorpe
I saw a museum exhibition a few years back of a famous Japanese war
photographer in Vietnam (who was killed there).

In addition to the usual blown up prints of his most famous images, they had
_contact sheets_ from his film rolls, and they _really_ showed how incredibly
skilled he was.

From looking at the contact sheets, and comparing with the blown-up images,
you could see that 95% of his shots were perfectly composed, well exposed, in
focus, and there were almost no wasted shots at all—none of this "take
multiple exposures and choose the best one" business, he just got it right the
first time and moved on.

While being shot at.

I liked his work before seeing that exhibition, but I was in awe after it...

[and of course while the equipment of the time (from the contact sheets, you
could see it was 35mm film) wasn't all that bad, it was a bit primitive
compared to what we have now....]

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jrochkind1
They're just going to have really bad photos, with bad composition etc.

Will it hurt their sales at all? Maybe not, so maybe they don't care?

It will hurt their journalists self-respect, and, I'd suggest, in the long
term, hurt the credibility and respectability of their newspaper. To have
unprofessional looking photos.

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bluetidepro
As pointed out in another comment in here, how do they expect to actually get
decent night photos then? At least with a camera, you can change the exposure
and shutter speeds to help with night photos. That's not something really all
that possible with an iPhone, if I'm correct. Also things in motion, the
iPhone tends to be very easily blurred, again, something that wouldn't be a
big issue with a nice ( _or even decent_ ) DSLR.

This seems like a very dumb move on there part, but I also grew up
doing/loving photojournalism, so maybe I'm taking it a bit personal. I just
feel like it's going to make their photos look very amateur, which will
inevitably hurt their credibility even more so.

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bruceb
I wonder how many HN readers actually pick up a physical copy of CST? almost
none. There will still be some pro freelancers. Sad for newspapers and for
those who lost their job but I doubt this will have an effect on readership.

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cantgetnode
R.I.P. photojournalism, hopefully we can share some humor to brighten the
mood. Canon 5D Vs 1D <http://youtu.be/bEwUnENlc9M>

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lmarinho
I don't know, I can find plenty of iPhone quality photography on the Web
already. I expect professional quality content from dedicated news outlets.

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mathattack
Could this just be outsourcing the photography to professionals?

Or could it be crowdsourcing "Pick the 100 best amateur photos rather than 1
good pro?"

The Sun Times isn't the New York Times. It's the lowbrow of two daily
newspapers in Chicago, and already leading the charge to the bottom.

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danso
It's not quality of photo that will be lost, it will be the ability to focus
on reporting. Even if taking a photo is easy as Instagram, you still have to
take time to edit the photo and prep it for print/production.

More problematic is the awkwardness of trying to photograph and interview at
the same time. "I'm so sorry for the lost off your children, Mrs. Smith. Now
can you look at my iPhone?"

That kind of breaks the rhythm.

~~~
kfury
This is a superb point. When the photo is supposed to document the interview
the photographer can't be the interviewer. It would be like a news reporter
filming themselves.

