
Want Elon Musk to Hire You at Tesla? Work for Apple - Audiophilip
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-05/want-elon-musk-to-hire-you-at-tesla-work-for-apple
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dcole2929
Seriously are $250,000 signing bonuses and 60% pay increases common in the
valley. What level employee is this for. Clearly I'm doing something wrong or
need to move to SV asap because I've never heard of that kind of pay here on
the east coast outside of maybe NYC

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pkaye
Why do you think real estate is unaffordable is some parts of the Bay Area?
Some people are getting sky high pay and bonuses.

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hugs
As they say: It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep.

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mariusz79
"Automakers from around the world are rushing to set up offices in the Bay
Area to tap the engineering talent. "

An honest question - is this really because of the talent, or simply because
people there tend to work more?

When you have so many people competing for engineering jobs I expect that
people, especially the ones with no kids, will work on average a lot more. Is
that the case or am I wrong?

~~~
k-mcgrady
I was under the impressions job supply was far higher than demand in the bay
area (for engineers). Aren't people always complaining they can't get the
talent? So I would guess that the hours you're willing to do above the
standard don't matter as, if you're talented, you're in demand.

~~~
joshstrange
As much as I'd like to believe they are being genuine (as a developer who
benefits from being in high demand) I've heard that this statement can really
be re-written as "We can't get enough talent at the price we want to pay" thus
the push to try to make it easier to bring engineers into the USA (One's they
conveniently leave out will accept less for the same job). I'm not saying this
is all fact but just that I'm not sure how much I believe that they really are
scrambling for talent.

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GolfyMcG
I would agree with this with one caveat. The way I read your comment was,
"Large software firms want to hire you for as little as possible" but I think
it's more "Large software firms want to hire the best talent for as little as
possible."

I tend to believe that the throughput of the top 5-10% can be exponentially
more than the next 5-10%. The objective for a lot of these firms is to get the
top couple percent and get 4x as much value of out someone but paying 2x as
much. As it relates to the parent comment, I think there is an incredibly high
demand for the top 5-10% of tech talent and exponentially less demand for the
subsequent talent. It's very similar in NYC for finance talent. I know people
who work in SF and NYC both who work insane hours but they get paid SO MUCH
MORE for it.

So, no one is scrambling for good engineers or good bankers or good
consultants but they are scrambling for that tiny sliver of the market that
they believe will generate exponential returns and turn into leaders of the
company.

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sukilot
The 10x people thing is mostly a myth, or applies to vanishing view superstars
-- not engineering employees at a large company. 10x producers are people who
work on well structured and balanced teams with good management.

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GolfyMcG
I completely agree with what you're saying about their needing to be context
around those individuals. And I also agree that the 10x people are a myth.
What I do know is that, in software, I have interviewed software engineers
with VERY similar resumes, pedigrees, etc. and there are HUGE gaps when we've
actually worked with them. Absolutely enormous gaps.

Perhaps this is simply too anecdotal and I've had a poor experiences, but I
can say, in my personal experiences, most candidates we've talked with are
doing 1x and there are other candidates doing 2x, 3x, or better. Perhaps not
10x, but I have definitely seen very similar people on paper deliver on VERY
different levels.

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harkyns_castle
The IT workers should form a union. I'm not a fan of unions (they seem to
devolve towards corruption here in Australia), but I'd prefer that over
arseholes like Jobs et al making wage "agreements". How scummy is that,
they're raking in billions, and they decide to be tight on the people that
make them their cash? Scumbags.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
This is a colossally bad idea. As a Chicagoan I can tell you unions only cause
more problems. They make damn sure that patronage and favor systems rule, not
meritocracy. That you can't fire terrible people and that all promotions are
done via just seniority. That's on top of the eventual corruption, dues, and
worse outcomes and being run circles around by non-union shops.

> but I'd prefer that over arseholes like Jobs et al making wage "agreements".

Under existing law this is collusion and illegal. The real question is why
the, ironically, union-friendly Obama administration didn't crack down on this
with an iron fist? I think Obama's DOJ needs to be held accountable here. Its
clear they let Jobs become an untouchable man and this attitude hurt a lot of
people's lives, moreso than anything Gates did and he was nearly destroyed by
Clinton.

~~~
rl3
Unions have their place, though they seem more suitable for situations where
there isn't any potential for employees to accelerate their careers on the
basis of merit.

The transportation sector is an especially good example of this. A cab driver,
airline pilot, and train engineer are all expected to operate their respective
vehicles safely and efficiently. The opportunity for rapid career advancement
that creatives in the tech industry enjoy is simply not present.

Therefore, the meritocracy-breaking overhead often associated with unions
isn't nearly as much of a concern as it would be in an industry that's heavily
dependent on the meritocratic dynamic.

If unions somehow become a thing in Tech, I suspect it will have been due to
their implementation being so radically different so as to resemble the
traditional model in name only, if that.

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32faction
Any advice as to getting hired with SpaceX?

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mikesorrenti
I would be happy to chat, get in touch: msorrenti at spacex dot com

That extends to any other HNers :)

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cipher0
HNers with US citizenship only I presume?

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jlhonora
I guess so, every job listing at SpaceX I've seen is US citizen only.
@mikesorrenti please prove me wrong :)

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ma2rten
Would that not be illegal? Or is SpaceX required by law to do so?

 _The law prohibits employers from hiring only U.S. citizens or lawful
permanent residents unless required to do so by law._

[http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_citizenship.cfm](http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/inquiries_citizenship.cfm)

~~~
TorKlingberg
They are probably required to. Space launchers and intercontinental ballistic
missiles are pretty much the same thing after all.

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wonderyak
I'd be happy enough just working at Apple.

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eyeareque
That "happy enough" feeling would eventually wear off. Like anywhere else, it
is just a job.

~~~
wonderyak
Oh I'm sure it would, but it would be far better than my current situation.

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eyeareque
Hopefully you can get out there and find something better then. Plus, Apple
will work you 50+ hrs a week. You can make the same money or more somewhere
else, working less hours.

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wonderyak
I'm happily working towards that now.

