
In China, Hacking Has Widespread Acceptance - inselkampf
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/world/asia/in-china-hacking-has-widespread-acceptance.html?hp&_r=0
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outside1234
If it doesn't draw blood, its accepted business practice in China. If it does
draw blood, it _might_ be accepted business practice.

Seriously, I've never seen a place where cheating was so accepted: just about
every other taxi ride attempted to take me the "scenic route", almost every
business deal ended up with them trying to screw or defraud us.

What a nightmare of a place to do business in - never again.

~~~
jckt
I'm probably slightly biased here, having quite a few good friends that
themselves are very involved with the manufacturing scene in China. From what
I know and have seen, the apparently widespread cheating you mentioned is much
rarer than you say. In many areas there is serious friction between (corrupt)
government and business, and it is mostly under such situations where I've
known about "non-standard business practices".

That said, if you're white, then I would be more inclined to believe the
incidences of fraud you've experienced. I still don't believe it's a majority,
but the incidences of foreigner-exploitation in China is significant enough to
turn away a lot of potential business. I don't think it's really racism per
se, as I think amongst many Chinese, especially the less well-educated, they
believe that for reasons of history, foreigners, especially Caucasians, owe
them something -- "after all, didn't you guys plunder our country's treasures
100, 200 years ago?" (8 nation alliance, Opium Wars, World War II, etc). It's
irrational and this is no excuse or justification of their disgusting
behaviour, but I think this is what's happening in many cases.

Still, there seems to be a slightly Sinophobic slant to these articles.
Stuxnet (I think most people believe it's American/Israeli?) is just evidence
of how far the Pentagon has gone with hacking. Its sophistication is actually
amazing, and I while most may claim that "hacking Iran is beneficial for the
rest of the world", I don't think the consequent fear of American hacking
prowess is irrational at all. Is China's decision to ramp up their own cyber-
espionage the right thing to do? I don't know. But I believe that any look at
the history of international politics will show that nobody really gives a
shit about international law whenever it becomes inconvenient. China is hardly
a "victim", as they claim, but the narrative of "Chinese hackers rising"
that's so popular these days distracts us from the much-more formidable power
that our Pentagon already has.

~~~
wnight
> I don't think it's really racism per se, as I think amongst many Chinese,
> especially the less well-educated, they believe that for reasons of history,
> foreigners, [...] owe them something

Technically, that is racism. Blaming similar looking people.

Less insidious than other forms maybe...

~~~
jckt
Don't think so. Technically speaking racism is strictly prejudice based on
racial, biological theories. This is prejudice based on history. Imperial
Japan was part of the 8 Nation alliance, defeated China in the Sino-Japanese
Wars, in WWII, etc. It's just easier to figure out if you're a white
businessman than a Japanese businessman. Looks are a _part_ of it, but their
reasoning is all historical. Unlike say, segregation in the 60s USA -- black <
white simply because they're black. So, maybe it's sort of like racism, but if
you want to be technical, it's some other kind of prejudice. I'd say
xenophobia is a better term.

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andridk
Crackers exist and it is a shame that the western world punishes security
research and shifts the blame towards the "hackers" instead of trying to get
these vulnerabilities fixed, where they originated.

In the coming (or ongoing) cyber-war - who wins? The countries that welcomed
crackers or those who jail them?

Note: I am not advocating breaking into people's computers. Just a community
that welcomes security input.

~~~
EvilLook
The reason that the blame is shifted toward "hackers" is that being proactive
with security, while the right thing to do, costs money and time. In a market
where software from different vendors is usually only determined by price and
update frequency spending additional money and time is a competitive
disadvantage. However, if you can push your security failings off onto
"hackers" not only do you minimize costs but your customers, if they're not
sufficiently savvy to this game, think that you're the better vendor because
you're able to "beat hackers at their own game".

Nowhere is this mindset more prevalent than in the anti-virus software field,
which of course is another can of worms itself.

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kleiba
Oh, too bad. :-(

Given the headline, I was hoping for an article on how technically inclined
people are not ridiculed as "geeks" or "nerds" in China, but are rather
accepted as contributors to key aspects of life in the 21st century. Instead,
they're _still_ using "hacking" and "cracking" interchangeably in the New York
Times. Apparently we're not as "21 century" as I thought.

~~~
PakG1
I think this community really needs to get over this. Individuals, groups of
individuals, or even entire communities do not get to determine the
definitions of words or how words are used. Words usage is determined by
society at large. If this is how hacking is used by society, then that's what
it is. That's how the English language works. That's why the word xerox is an
acceptable verb. That's why the meaning of the word gay has changed.

English evolves according to how its speakers and writers use it. Let it go.

~~~
lmm
The word gay changed precisely because a small community refused to "let it
go".

~~~
PakG1
I'm not sure what you're saying? When I look up the history and etymology of
the word gay, I don't see anything of the sort. It was quite a gradual change
not the fault of any single small community.

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olalonde
Meta: it seems the New York Times really didn't appreciate getting blocked
from China a few months ago. All the articles I read on HN that depict China
negatively seem to come from the NYT. Or maybe other publications that aren't
blocked in China actively avoid those topics?

~~~
meric
Or, now that they are blocked, they have nothing to lose by criticising China,
unlike other media corporations.

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squozzer
It seems to me that China is building itself a problem that it might not be
able to handle in the future. Sort of like the Romans (or Germans or British
or Americans) had / have with all of the soldiers they produce(d).

