
The Japanese Iced Coffee Method (2012) - _uy6i
http://petergiuliano.tumblr.com/post/22177089634/why-you-should-stop-cold-brewing-and-use-the
======
rubyn00bie
The writer of this article is really wrong to assume coffee aficionados don't
drink cold brew, that's absolutely false. It's made even worse that he's
conflating cold brew with iced coffee. They are very much not the same.

I'm sure it's lovely but it's not cold brew. Cold brew is less acidic because
it's not heated; it's also said to have a more "true" taste because it's not
extracted with hot water.

I have some stomach issues, one of which is an ulcer, and I am unable to drink
hot coffee regularly as it tends to upset my stomach much more. Cold brew
besides actually having a richer taste because of the slow brewing process
actually hurts my tum tum less.

... Granted I also live in PDX, so I'm fairly sure (based on some comments)
not everyone out there has had, or is actually being served, cold brew.
Putting hot coffee on ice just doesn't even begin to compare.

Update: hit post early.

~~~
soneca
Could you share your recipe/process of cold brewing to someone that never
heard about it? Thanks!

~~~
hinkley
I had to stop making cold brew because I was overcaffienating to an extent I
was afraid my molecules would match the harmonics of the ground and I would
fall through to the center of the earth.

But here's what I did:

Get a big french press, a narrow mouth pitcher or a wide mouth bottle, and one
of those single serving coffee maker funnels (mines a Hario, which seems to
clog up more slowly).

Put about 3/4" of coarse coffee grounds into the french press. Fill it with
water to a little below where the plunger sits, stir it a little, put the lid
on (plunger up) and push it back under a cabinet on your counter where nobody
will mess with it.

24-36 hours later, push down the plunger slower than you've ever thought you
could push down a plunger. Put an unbleached paper filter in your single
serving coffee funnel, put the funnel on top of your pitcher/jar, and pour.
There's gonna be a lot of fines in the coffee so this may take a while. After
you're done put the pitcher in the fridge.

Some people make a second pitcher from the grounds. It takes a bit longer to
reach full strength the second time, so let it go for another 12 hours. But if
you need the second pitcher before the first is gone your doctor may have some
harsh words for you.

~~~
chm
I suggest you try using multiple small extraction volumes instead of a single
big one. The long extraction time could be shortened, and you will get less
heavy molecules out (which in tea, for example, tend to make the brew taste a
bit bad). See [1] for an explanation. It might just taste better, let me know
if you try it!

[1]: [http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/37712/why-
using...](http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/37712/why-using-
smaller-portions-are-better-for-extractions)

------
smoyer
I've been making Tokyo Ice-Drip Coffee for the last year - it has a slightly
different taste than just mixing cold water and ice with the grounds, but I
specifically like the lack of bitterness that would come about if the waxes in
the coffee were melted by the heat and then extracted with the brew.

In any case, the most important phrase in the story is "many of the iced
coffee processes I liked the best brewed coffee hot". If you find the coffee
you like best, brew it that way. I'd also recommend trying the other brew
methods to make sure you're not stuck on a local optimum.

And remember, you can brew coffee with water anywhere between freezing and
boiling - the hotter the water, the more parafins you'll melt. If you're using
a French Press (Cafetiere) and you think your coffee is too bitter at 200F,
try 190F, then 180F, etc.

And coffee will change flavor as it stands. Brewing hot onto ice as described
in this article eliminates post-brewing flavor changes. If you cold brew your
coffee and then let it stand at room temperature for several days, it won't
taste like the freshly brewed coffee either.

TLDR: Experiment until you find what you like.

~~~
enraged_camel
>>but I specifically like the lack of bitterness that would come about if the
waxes in the coffee were melted by the heat and then extracted with the brew.

As a long time coffee drinker, I've realized that the bitterness is what wakes
me up in the morning, rather than the caffeine in the coffee. The first sip of
coffee is usually enough to bring me out of my morning stupor. It's probably
some kind of conditioned response, which would probably be lacking with a non-
bitter cold-brew. :P

~~~
lostlogin
Can I recommend an espresso while you froth the milk for a flat white? That's
an actually perfect morning combo which also uses your savage wake up
technique.

------
etatoby
Not to take anything away from the Japanese, but we have a similar process in
Italy: brew hot, then quickly chill with ice.

An espresso cup is brewed with a proper, bar sized espresso machine (or with a
Nespresso, which IMHO is the only thing that comes close to it.) Then it is
sugared, mixed, and poured in a shaker over ice cubes. The shaker is agitated
quickly and vigorously for a short time, then the mixture strained into a tall
glass.

We call it Shaked coffee ("caffè shakerato") and it's notoriously difficult to
get right.

I have a stainless steel cocktail shaker that I use every summer for this very
purpose, but even after years of trying I cannot get the right timing,
quantities, and temperatures as a proper Barista would.

Oh, and it's delicious!

~~~
rconti
Some places in the US do a shakerato; I know Cafe Ladro in Seattle does.

------
porsupah
Relatedly, the writer here offers a photo of some beautiful Japanese apparatus
for cold brewing, a few paragraphs down.

[http://www.funraniumlabs.com/the-black-blood-of-the-
earth/](http://www.funraniumlabs.com/the-black-blood-of-the-earth/)

"Fast forward 14 years. An acquaintance working and living in Japan went on
holiday and discovered a bar with this exceptionally beautiful rig for the
preparation of Viennese Triple Cold Extraction Coffee. Upon sampling this, he
felt that, and I quote, “I could see colors that weren’t in the visible
spectrum, and could vibrate through walls.” I looked at this I said to myself,
“Hey, you’ve got enough virgin laboratory glassware lying around the house
that you could probably build something like that.” Probably several
somethings, actually, but that’s beside the point."

~~~
epalmer
This twit podcast
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAxZi7uess](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAxZi7uess)
is with Phillip Broughton the gent that makes Black Blood of the Earth cold
brewed coffee. Pretty interesting podcast. If I remember he is a physicist.

For the record I have not tried black blood of the earth but would like to try
it. It is just I am cheap.

------
saikit
Recently paid $5.50 for cold brew in Brooklyn.

I think cold brew is an attempt by coffee shops to upsell what used to be
regular coffee + ice. Taste wise, it's completely subjective. Value wise,
nothing beats Starbucks double shot on ice.

At home, I just aeropress into an ice cube. That way, I don't have a pitcher
of cold brew concentrate that has to be used within a week.

~~~
rattray
> I just aeropress into an ice cube

Does aeropress allow you to use cold water?

~~~
michael_h
I don't think that would come out right. If you use cold water, you'd have to
replace heat with time and the entire point of the aeropress is to brew
quickly, to avoid leeching the more bitter parts of the bean.

My general approach is: ~2.5 scoops into the aeropress, fill with 165 F to
just above the -2- marker, stir a few times, immediately press out over 20
seconds directly onto tumbler of ice.

~~~
js2
I don't care what aeropress says about the right brewing temp (I think they
claim 180° is ideal)... I find coffee to be sour if I don't brew it in my
aeropress at 200°. (I make my iced coffee the same way and have been for
years.)

BTW, if you want your coffee slightly sweetened, you can put a tsp of sugar
into the aeropress with the grinds and press the combination over ice. Saves
needing a simple syrup or having the sugar not dissolve if you put it into the
iced coffee afterwards.

This is of course very similar to how vietnamese iced coffee is made.
[https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-
coffee/](https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-coffee/)

~~~
lostlogin
Reading this timings me of John Grubers theory that success requires three
things. A clicky keyboard, over carbonated water and fussy coffee. Youre on
track and im going to try your way too. Thanks.

------
dvcc
I wasn't entirely convinced about why the coffee is better than the cold brew
method. They both return different flavor sets, and taste at that point is
completely subjective. A bad comparison would be like saying orange juice with
pulp is scientifically better than orange juice without pulp.

~~~
rubidium
I agree.

You see the same thing with the "third wave" movement who espouse that very
light roast is the "best" way to roast coffee. Light, medium and dark roast
coffee is all perfectly fine ways of roasting, and all return different
flavors for different beans.

I prefer a roaster that has mastered the whole range.

~~~
theseatoms
Except light roasting preserves a higher caffeine content. So this method is
objectively more efficient as a stimulant delivery mechanism.

~~~
lukeHeuer
This is a myth. Roasting does not alter caffeine levels, as it is very heat
stable. You might get more caffeine from a light roast if you are measuring
your beans by volume. Light roasts expand less and are more dense than darker
roasts, so you ultimately end up with more mass.

~~~
theseatoms
Interesting. Thanks for the correction.

~~~
lukeHeuer
You're welcome. I was under the same impression myself until recently. If you
really need a kick though, pick up some Robusta. It tastes pretty rough but
has more caffeine than Arabica.

~~~
eric_h
This definitely shook what I had thought was fact for quite some time. I found
this article[0] to be quite informative.

0) [https://www.kickinghorsecoffee.com/en/blog/caffeine-myths-
da...](https://www.kickinghorsecoffee.com/en/blog/caffeine-myths-dark-vs-
light)

~~~
lukeHeuer
That was a good article. The only other cause of caffeine variation I'm aware
of is altitude. Caffeine is produced as a defense against pests, and since
there are fewer pests at higher altitudes less caffeine is generated in that
scenario. Coincidently, altitude is usually associated with higher quality
coffee. The difference is negligible, so I guess my point is if high caffeine
consumption is a goal just drink more coffee.

------
saikit
As other commenters noted, this is not a particularly Japanese method of ice
coffee brewing.

This Kyoto-style coffee tower, however, is:

[http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2014/03/japanese-style-slow-
dr...](http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2014/03/japanese-style-slow-drip-coffee-
cold-brewers-kyoto-yama-hario.html)

~~~
cmccart
Additionally, Serious Eats also did a cold-brew method comparison, which may
be of interest:

[http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/whats-the-best-way-to-
bre...](http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/whats-the-best-way-to-brew-iced-
coffee.html)

~~~
jschulenklopper
Which is an excellent article with a nice surprise at the end.

> With milk, the diner-style and cold brew tasted the best, whereas the
> Japanese style and immersion-over-ice were terrible, their bright flavors
> clashing with the creamy dairy, giving them the flavor of curdled milk.

------
thatswrong0
I'm all about the aero press into a glass of ice morning routine.

~~~
rattray
Can you expound on this method?

~~~
thatswrong0
Normally you aeropress into a mug and then top it off with extra water as
needed. Instead I aeropress into a glass of ice and the melted ice does the
topping off.. which cools the coffee without watering it down too much.

------
Aelinsaar
Cold brew tastes great. Hot brew tastes great. AeroPress tastes great. It's
not a "Better", it's just a taste and situation thing. Sometimes I want
Turkish coffee, sometimes I want a Greek Nescafe Frappe. It's not that one is
better, although one is definitely better _when I want that one_.

~~~
colinthompson
Agreed.

Along the similar lines, I like a nice double cream brie, or a gruyere cheese.
I also like a good slice of kraft american cheese. They all have their time
and place.

~~~
Aelinsaar
Exactly. I don't want to melt a triple-creme on my nachos, or use American
slices in my fondue.

------
stcredzero
_What about oxidation? Oxidation in food is generally bad news: oxygen has a
habit of monkeying with oils to make them taste horrible, a phenomenon also
known as rancidification._

Couldn't the 2nd sentence simply be shortened to, "Oxygen has a habit of
monkeying with oils to make them rancid."

[https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-
something/](https://haveabit.com/feynman/knowing-the-name-of-something/)

------
alexmingoia
What makes this process Japanese, exactly? I remember my parents doing it and
nobody called it "Japanese Iced Coffee"

~~~
rattray
Presumably because it's very common in Japan, and not so common elsewhere.

When I was in Japan (July 2015) I was surprised at how common iced coffee was
– it felt like every street corner had a vending machine that sold (among
other things) iced coffee. You can buy some of it here in SF, too, even at
Wallgreens.

~~~
slyn
For what it's worth, brewing coffee directly over ice is extremely common in
Vietnam as well.

~~~
Fricken
I live in Edmonton, which has about 20 Vietnamese restaurants for every
Japanese one. I've always known it to be Vietnamese iced coffee, and had no
idea it's done in Japan as well. Although here the coffee conventionally drips
over a mixture of ice and sweentened, condensed milk. I'm not sure if that's
done elsewhere.

------
ajharrison
I've been doing this forever. Brew from Aeropress right into a glass full of
ice, top it off with milk. Delicious.

~~~
bbarn
Yep. This is what I do. I have a couple of large plastic Tervis glasses that
work great for this, and as a bonus if I've put too little ice in or heated
the water too much I can adjust on the fly by seeing through it.

~~~
j10sanders
Even better: I aeropress onto a cocktail shaker with ice, then shake the hell
out of it. The coffee get's very cold much faster, and I just throw out the
ice and sometimes put nice new cubes in at the end. The coffee comes out a bit
frothy and tastes better than any variation I've bought.

------
Moto7451
A local coffee shop does this and the results are excellent. As he suggests it
maintains crisp aromatics. They use a special double walled vessel with ice
separated from the coffee so it doesn't become watered down. The taste is very
good.

That said, so is that shop's cold brew, espresso, and pour overs. I think
quality of ingredients and the attention to detail they pay is more important
than the specific technique. To me this is more like getting your sourdough in
a boule vs a baguette than a "stop drinking cold brew" experience.

~~~
rattray
> I think quality of ingredients and the attention to detail they pay is more
> important than the specific technique.

It might make sense to use the technique used by those who have that level of
attention to detail and quality – presumably they would be less likely to use
a sub-standard method.

~~~
Moto7451
Sure but my point is that they have multiple quality methods at their
disposal. I'm not saying this is a bad method, I'm saying it's one of many
good methods. I think as far as Coffee geekery goes, the Kyoto Coffee maker
does an even better job than the linked method.

------
draw_down
I would love to try it! But I must disagree that cold brew is a lesser or
incomplete version of coffee. Rather, it highlights different flavors than hot
brewing methods do, and those flavors are wonderful in my opinion. When made
well, cold brew is the caramelly, chocolaty coffee I always wanted.

What doesn't get dissolved into the cold water is often the more sour (or
"bright" if you're feeling charitable) flavors.

(I have had the stale, flat kind of cold brew the author mentions. It sucks. I
have also had plenty of terrible hot coffee.)

~~~
spraak
That's a great point. Hasn't the author ever had terrible hot coffee, so why
not terrible cold brew too? Some of the other posts in this thread point out
that some beans are better for cold brew than others. And I agree with you
that I've had really good cold brew and really enjoy it's aroma and taste.

------
fractallyte
The sole source in the UK:
[http://www.theoriginaldutch.com/](http://www.theoriginaldutch.com/)

The founder is a pal of mine! He exhibited recently at the Caffe Culture Show
in Olympia, London. In a huge hall filled with all the complex paraphernalia
of coffee-brewing and consumption, his stand was situated at the periphery, in
the artisan foods section.

Interestingly, with all the bustle (and hustle ;-) of the main venue, this
section - arguably, the _most interesting_ \- had relatively light traffic.
But a few savvy people came by to sample this unique coffee (and other awesome
products in the vicinity), including one prominent coffee critic/blogger. His
opinion: a very interesting flavor profile that was too earthy; not enough
acidity. My friend patiently explained that this is the intention: to preserve
the natural 'sweetness' of the bean. The critic wasn't swayed, but I was
delighted: at least his product had elicited a strong reaction!

Most significantly, many people mistakenly equated 'cold brew' with 'cold
drip'. Huge difference!

Visitors tended to love it. Some came back for a second and third sampling. We
gave away a _lot_ of bottles...

~~~
psb217
There's a minor typo ("than" is written as "that") in the third block of main-
body text on the linked landing page.

~~~
fractallyte
Yes, I just mentioned it to him too! Thanks.

------
nachtigall
As others already said, this article really confuses "cold brew" and "iced
coffee".

Friends of mine have a roastery in Berlin and for "cold brew" the coffee
extraction process takes a long time:

> Basically, cold water is used in a Cold Brew for extraction, that is heat is
> replaced by time.

Full step by step recipe is at [https://www.flyingroasters.de/blog/cold-brew-
rezept/](https://www.flyingroasters.de/blog/cold-brew-rezept/) (German only,
Google Translator:
[https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=ht...](https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flyingroasters.de%2Fblog%2Fcold-
brew-rezept%2F))

I personally like it very much with Tonic water. Especially in summer.
Everybody who also likes Gin Tonic should try a Cold Brew with Tonic.

If you happen to live in Berlin and want to try one without much hassle, they
have a booth at the next Weddingmarkt on 3 July. Highly recommended.

------
lazyant
Japanese? OK but this is common in Europe as well since I can remember (40
years)

~~~
lukeHeuer
We know they've been doing it since the 1600s. As far as written history goes,
Kyoto is the furthest back we can trace this brew method.

------
Yhippa
If anybody happens to be near Richmond, VA go to Alchemy Coffee near Virginia
Commonwealth University
([http://www.alchemycoffeerva.com/](http://www.alchemycoffeerva.com/)). That's
where I got my first taste of cold brew and I was hooked. It tasted like a
different drink and I felt that I could taste different characteristics about
coffee than other types. They take the time to talk to you about their
Japanese cold brew process as well as the different types of coffee they
acquire.

------
forgotpwtomain
> since the elusive and charming elements of flavor that make coffee special
> never get dissolved into the brew, and remain in the coffee grounds, which
> get thrown away.

Isn't this just elegantly adjectivezed nonsense? The net result of a
stoichistic process isn't altered by the speed at which it occurred. So cold-
brew shouldn't end-up with a different composition if timed correctly relative
to hot-brew?

------
js2
My first association with brewing directly over ice was when I ordered
vietnamese iced coffee many years ago:

[https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-
coffee/](https://ineedcoffee.com/brew-vietnamese-coffee/)

I've been brewing my coffee directly over ice since I first got an
aeropress... which is old enough to be the original blue plastic, whenever
that was.

It never occurred to me that this was some magical technique.

------
keane
Counter Culture Coffee has a video depicting the "brew hot, chill instantly"
method (admittedly somewhat self-explanatory as merely brewing over ice)
described in the article: [https://counterculturecoffee.com/learn/quick-easy-
iced-coffe...](https://counterculturecoffee.com/learn/quick-easy-iced-coffee)

------
alwaysdoit
Brewing steaming hot coffee directly onto a glass carafe filled with ice looks
like the perfect way to crack the carafe.

------
JasonCEC
I wrote an analysis on cold brewed coffee's a while back:
[https://www.gastrograph.com/blogs/gastronexus/flavor-
profile...](https://www.gastrograph.com/blogs/gastronexus/flavor-profiles-in-
cold-brew-coffee.html)

Cheers!

------
rconti
Every morning a glass of crushed ice goes under the spout of my espresso
machine.

Any iced americano is going to be a lot like this method, except with espresso
instead of brewed coffee, and water added. I add minimal extra water just
because i like it as-is.

------
miah_
This article would be so much better with an actual recipe, or even just
ratios of coffee:ice. Though it has inspired me to look elsewhere to find that
information, or do some experimentation in the kitchen to discover it.

------
dylanrw
It's a different method of brewing. However the psuedoscience he uses to
justify it as being 'better' is just touchy feely handwaving.

If you enjoy the taste do it, if you don't, toddy brew on my fellow humans.

------
billfor
I'm surprised nobody has tried to flash chill it with liquid nitrogen.

------
cel1ne
This is common in Europe. How else would you make cold coffee if not by first
making proper coffee then cooling it. I just use my bialetti espresso maker
and add ice cubes.

~~~
cr1895
You make cold brew coffee without any heat at all by immersing grounds in
water for a long time. There are different methods that produce either
concentrate or ready-to-drink, and some chill in the fridge during the brew
process and some leave it out on the counter. Lots of options, though the
distinction is that none uses hot water.

------
davidcelis
the first time i tried the japanese iced coffee method, i ended up with a cup
of coffee that had such a strong bitter, chemical taste that i was sure i must
have been drinking poison. i later realized it was probably my ice cubes,
which came out of those Tovolo king cube molds. after a few months, those
molds impart an extremely strong chemical flavor into their ice cubes.

so… long story short, the ice you use matters a lot

------
Asooka
Summary: Brew normally, pour onto ice right away. Factor the volume of ice you
use into the amount of coffee you use.

------
jcyw
Im in seattle. Where can I find japanese coffee? :p

~~~
rconti
Try a shakerato at Cafe Ladro. Not japanese coffee, but the shakerato is
mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

------
tudorw
cortado con hielo

no more words required :)

------
morinted
The Japanese Iced Coffee Method [2012]

I thought this article was recent, but the date stamp reveals that it's four
years old.

------
just_observing
I'm guessing the site author is (1) young and (2) has a large monitor because
that font is far far too small.

~~~
akovaski
The font on the site is the same size as the font on hacker news (on my
computer, Windows 10, chrome 51).

