
20th anniversary of José Bové’s 'attack' on a McDonald's in rural France - seapunk
https://twitter.com/obrien/status/1160852592840368128
======
maeln
As a French, I didn't expect to see José Bové on HN. He is indeed a
controversial person. A lot of his action where as much praised as they were
criticized. Especially when it came to GMO which he was fiercely against.

But overall, all his fight, kind of as what the twitter thread says, where
against globalization (in the food industry) and in some way for protectionism
within France / EU. I know a lot of people consider protectionism a bad thing,
but a free market only works when the different actor have roughly the same
power. It was (and it still is) not the case, as US had the power to make
other actor accept their term and their product, which was heavily damaging
the local farmer.

~~~
yoz-y
I find that French farmers have a tendency to fight and yell against
globalisation but don’t bat an eye when it profits them. French agriculture is
heavily subsidised too which hurts other European countries.

~~~
maeln
You are not wrong. But at the same time, you can see from their scope: They
have to compete against countries where the cost of labor and the cost of
living is much less. Meaning, they can hardly sell their product as the same
price as farmer in some other country while making ends-meet.

This is nothing new and a known consequence of globalization. Especially when
their is no/low tariff and cheap transportation, as is the case within the EU.

This mean that, either you let some industry die off and rely entirely on
importation (which we did for a lot of manufacturing where everything is know
produce in mostly Asian country) or you heavily subsidized it to keep it
alive.

In the case of agriculture, France heavily subsidized it to keep it alive as
it is considered a strategical industry. It is a huge sink hole for France,
and as far as I know for the EU. I don't know if they really profit from it
financially speaking, but they do need it for soft power and to not being
subject of more influence from other country.

Overall, their is probably some hypocrisy about globalization within farmer.
But isn't it also a natural human behavior ? We tend to scream about injustice
unless this injustice profit us.

~~~
yoz-y
Yeah, as I live in France but when I come back to my country of origin I also
see the other side of this mess.

I am no economist but I think that the low cost of transport is one of the
factors that could be somehow influenced. We keep trucking stuff thousands of
kilometers whereas it could grow and be processed just next-door.

------
vinay427
"If you're wondering why there was, and continues to be, resentment of the
U.S. around the globe, the McDonald's protest is a pretty good example of how
America manages to look like a bully to suit its economic interests."

This feels like an exaggerated trope to me.

There's certainly some concept of resentment of the US around the globe.
Having traveled to a decent number of places and lived outside the US,
however, I can't say that it's a significant amount among countries that the
US makes some effort to maintain a cordial relationship with.

A trade war involving tariffs and food regulations is still rather minor in
the grand scheme of diplomacy and conflict.

~~~
dmix
Edited: took a comment out about France which I realized was baiting some
people the wrong way.

~~~
Thrymr
> Don't worry, given the option between a citizenship in either I'd bet 99% of
> people would choose to live in the US instead of France.

To challenge your made-up statistic, I'd bet that isn't even true of Americans
if they were offered a choice and a work permit for France.

~~~
dmix
Sure but I'm not talking about a vacation or retirement. But a choice to live
your life in either. Just my own estimation, so take that FWIW

Not trying to trash them or start a flamewar. The French people and government
do have a reputation in the Anglo world, probably equally as much as the US
does in Europe. The country-side and cities are very nice there no doubt.

~~~
cc81
As far as the reputation of them being rude I've heard it is more of a Paris
thing (which I guess would translate to a New York thing) and not so much
outside of Paris. I've not been there in many years but I had a very nice
time, even in Paris, and I would love to go back.

I'm not from the US so depending on the relations at the time it might be a
different experience. I assume when they were trashed in US media for not
joining the Iraq war I there were at least some resentment against US
tourists.

------
beaner
Why do US trade deals always seem to involve agriculture? I'm in favor of
fair/open trade, and in my mind that would seem to come down to just trying to
remove barriers, restrictions and tariffs for all products and industries
equally. But it always seems to involve custom agreements for mass purchases
of agriculture. Why is that?

~~~
sacheendra
I guess it comes to supply and demand. Other countries want US technology and
services. They don't want US agricultural products as eluded to in the above
thread. Thus, trying to sell stuff others don't want ends up making more noise
compared to selling stuff they do want.

The US does this because: 1\. National security (US farmers wouldn't grow
stuff if nobody bought it, which is a problem if the US ever goes to war.
Then, they might suddenly need it.) 2\. Vote banks (Rural US happens to be the
key in deciding elections and support for laws. Due to the electoral college
and each state having 2 senators.) 3\. Ideology (The reasons you mentioned.
Free market ...)

~~~
bdauvergne
But why does US farmer wanting to export to EU don't just enforce EU norms on
food production ? Do not use hormones or forbidden pesticides in the EU,
enforce traceability of all all inputs. Then they could negotiate easily with
EU for their products, checked by EU validated organisations, to enter the EU
market. I often think that it's not for the some free market ideology but just
to force other countries (like EU) to abandon any normative sovereignty.

I understand that a global agricultural market with a single norm would be
better for mercantile exchanges, but for the single producer EU (or China, or
whatever) is a sufficiently big market to be targeted exclusively if they
want. OMC should not conflate normative barriers with tariff barriers, they
have a real purpose (maybe USA is wrong to eat so much pesticides).

~~~
hokkos
They didn't want to change their practice to export, nor wanted to have any
limitation, but they finally did and recently got a bigger share of the import
quota.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-02/u-s-
and-e...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-02/u-s-and-eu-to-
announce-beef-deal-at-white-house-on-friday)

------
georgiecasey
> If you're wondering why there was, and continues to be, resentment of the
> U.S. around the globe, the McDonald's protest is a pretty good example of
> how America manages to look like a bully to suit its economic interests.

but the US didn't sentence this guy to prison, it was French courts

~~~
Arkanosis
The point of the thread is that US manages to look like a bully not because it
sentenced him to prison (which it didn't, indeed), but because it placed
tariffs on EU agricultural products in retaliation for it refusing its beef
stuffed with hormones.

~~~
andonisus
Is this not standard practice for how countries trade with each other?

~~~
stronglikedan
Yes, but common practice and current narrative often conflict.

------
reirob
> As an aside: I will hear this ocassionally from Americans visiting here.
> That the food at McDonald's tastes better. This is probably why. Fewer
> chemicals, more local produce.

~~~
vanilla-almond
A comparison of ingredients in McDonalds French fries in the UK and US from a
2015 story:

[https://boingboing.net/2015/01/22/usa-mcdonalds-fries-
have-1...](https://boingboing.net/2015/01/22/usa-mcdonalds-fries-have-14.html)

~~~
mrguyorama
>Europe actually regulates this ingredient because they know this man-made
chemical was never intended to be consumed by humans. This whole time
McDonalds has known about this and chooses to continue to serve it’s US
citizens silly putty.

Some of that article is absolute trash.

------
mcculley
What does one mean by, "accept American beef stuffed with hormones"? Would
individual buyers not get the option to make choices? Would labeling be
prohibited?

~~~
lm28469
Just like you have the "choice" between cheap veggies (sparkled with
monsanto's health elixir that may or may not be damaging to you and the
environment) vs local/bio veggies which cost a bit more, sure. Once you flood
a market with cheap alternatives it becomes a race to the bottom and it's a
losing battle for the customer. Plus it's not like you'll walk into a fast
food / street restaurant and have the choice between cheap imported beef vs
local beef either.

As far as I can tell it was the classic "Accept our deal or face consequences"
type of US foreign policies. I can't be the only one thinking that importing
meat from the other side of the world for a purely economical reason is
insanity, especially when the local meat market is perfectly fine and of
better quality.

Reminds me of all the meat scandals we had in the last decade in France, all
of it coming from foreign countries, all of it due to companies trying to
increase their margin at all cost: horse meat sold as beef, sick/old animals
sold as healthy, minced meat made primarily skin, cartilage and other by-
products, yummy...

~~~
vorpalhex
> a race to the bottom and it's a losing battle for the customer

How dare those customers get to have access to cheap food! They should only be
able to buy organic, local approved veggies from their local overpriced
grocery store!

France didn't want to import US Beef (fair), the US threatened to not import
French cheese in retaliation (seemingly also rather fair).

~~~
coldtea
> _How dare those customers get to have access to cheap food!_

How dare customers want to have access to healthy AND cheap food. They don't
get to chose both!

And what's with the wages "race to the bottom" ensuring everybody will only be
able to get cheap food - if at all?

> _France didn 't want to import US Beef (fair), the US threatened to not
> import French cheese in retaliation (seemingly also rather fair)._

Yes, fair as well. So?

(Although one is a crappy, unhealthy beef grown in abhorrent conditions, the
other is high quality cheese).

~~~
vorpalhex
One is a cheap high protein food wildly available produced by well paid
workers, the other is a very expensive geographically protected cheese
product.

You may not like US beef, and you don't have to eat it, and you're probably
well off enough that you get to make that choice. Protecting a domestic cheese
production probably doesn't increase food availability for the poor - nor is
that domestic cheese production some health food.

~~~
coldtea
Sorry, I don't want crappy "food for the poor" and healthy "food for the
rich". I find this dystopian, and a false dichotomy.

And those advocating are usually those "well enough" that don't have to suffer
the "food for the poor" themselves.

> _Protecting a domestic cheese production probably doesn 't increase food
> availability for the poor - nor is that domestic cheese production some
> health food._

As part of the typical French diet, as is its use in France (and Europe), it's
much healthier than the kind of crap passed for food to the poor in the US, or
the fads peddled year after year as some "miracle food" to richer consumers
(quinoa, chia, kale, and such).

~~~
orwin
Sorry, a bit of-topic, but is kale that expensive? In France it's like twice
the price of romanesco (despite being harder to prepare tbh) but still pretty
cheap (like 6€/kg).

~~~
coldtea
Well, most comparable (and equally healthy) greens are 1/2 to 1/5 the price.

------
duxup
That whole twitter stream is a good example of "bias" claims that seem to
actually explicitly be "this article doesn't say exactly what I want it to
say".

I don't think the word "attack" is as loaded a phrase as that person thinks it
is... and less loaded than the tweets linked to.

------
boyadjian
In France, Mac Donald is an integral part of the French landscape, just like
KFC or Burger King. Attacking this chain for primary anti-Americanism makes no
sense.

~~~
clydethefrog
When I visited France, I mostly saw restaurants by Quick, the first hamburger
chain founded in Europe.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_(restaurant)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quick_\(restaurant\))

------
tradeWar
An early american trade war. Now they are even more aggressive at it and are
imprisoning everyone they can:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-15/-the-
amer...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-15/-the-american-
trap-an-executive-s-view-from-a-u-s-prison-cell)

