
They want to hire me. What should I do? - mweser
http://mweser.de/help-they-want-to-hire-me-what-should-i-do/
======
elohesra
Find out why the other programmer left. He left knowing full well that it'd
leave the company in the lurch, and that's a pretty bad sign because it means
that they've upset him enough that he doesn't care about hurting them.

Giving some basic armchair analysis, I'd assume that the mathematician gets a
lot of kudos for his 'genius' inventions, and the programmer is treated like a
second-rate code monkey who's just there the aid the oh-so-godly
mathematician. If this is the case, then it's obviously not worth joining, but
make sure to find out why the other programmer left.

~~~
ethor
There is a lot of speculation here. There could be plenty of plausible reasons
as to why he would leave the company e.g. a better offer from elsewhere,
family reasons.

~~~
mweser
My feeling is that there was nothing bad going on with his decision. He lives
quite far and had to travel every day two times about 2h, which i suppose is
the main reason. However, your questions and concernes are reasonable and i
will try to ask him.

------
late2part
You need to decide if you want to be a PIG or a CHICKEN.

First decide that. Then decide what you need to be what you prefer. Then ask
for it.

Nice thing about being a PIG here is that you can be reincarnated.

~~~
antoko
Since you were apparently needlessly downvoted I'll add some context.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicken_and_the_Pig](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicken_and_the_Pig)

~~~
masterofmasters
The above post makes sense with this context, but I wouldn't say it was
needlessly downvoted. A post doesn't stand on its own when it throws around
uncommon metaphors without explanation.

Personally, I'd prefer of posts/articles all explained their metaphors and
acronyms before using them. This is Hacker News, not Enterprise IT News. For
example, the article tosses out USP and CI which I don't believe are very
common terms either. They should be spelled out.

~~~
mcv
Continuous Integration is pretty common, but I have no idea what USP means.

~~~
esteth
USP is Unique Selling Point.

There's lots of technologists on HN and lots of business types, and only a
subset of each understand the other's lingo. People should try and explain
their lingo when they use it, for the benefit of the other camp :)

~~~
bmelton
For people with government / federal contracting experience that aren't
familiar with the 'USP' jargon (as I wasn't, once), the appropriate federal
term is "key differentiator".

------
troels
You have two problems, it seems. First, you need to figure out what you want
to do. E.g. do you want to join them or stay with your current arrangement.
Nobody on this forum can help you decide that. But make your due diligence on
the company before you make up your mind (For one thing - figure out why that
other guy left).

Assuming you do prefer to join them, you need to figure out what your price
is. You seem to be afraid to make unreasonable demands, as you are in a
position of power here. I would suggest that you take the approach of
calculating what you believe your value is in terms of money per time unit
(monthly, hourly, whatever). The difference between that number and what they
can pay you should then be considered investment into the company and you
should get compensated for that somehow. Most likely through equity.

Calculating your value is a much more objective task and therefore less
fraught with tactics, feelings and whatnot. Just remember to calculate your
value for the company in the current situation. In this case, your value is
clearly very high, so it would only be fair to factor it in.

------
kephra
> attractive salary

I guess you really mean "hourly rate", because salary means being employed.

> i have my own two-man company > They offered shares and assured immediate
> budget for another developer

This sounds like an aquihire. So calculate what your own company is worth, add
how much you earn within one year by staying your own boss, and round up to a
lumped sum. Ask for this money in cash, and not in stocks, ask for same in
stocks in addition, and add a good salary.

Their alternative is to continue paying you a hourly rate. But its your
decission if you give up your freedom to become a wage slave again.

~~~
mweser
sure "hourly rate" is correct.

I think such an "aquihire" ist not currently possible. They would certainly
need to either sell a couple of systems or get VC. But hey, didn't i just
write that i should stop thinking for them, too? I may take this into account
talk it through.

~~~
kephra
I guess your 2nd man in your own company is (nearly) a close friend. So you
betray him, if you leave without him. You might talk with him, what he thinks
about it.

~~~
mweser
of course i already talked to him. That's one of the reasons that i cannot
guarantee more than 3 days/week. With two days i could keep my own thing up
and running - but obviously progress or growth is more or less impossible
then.

------
andymoe
It's not your job to come up with the compromise. Tell them exactly what you
need and let them counter. If they want you to stay around in some capacity
bad enough you may get everything you ask for or at least a really good
counter offer for you to consider.

~~~
rhizome
Yeah, a logical middle ground is to stay freelance until they start actually
getting sales instead of handing out "betas" (freebies).

------
ronaldx
Consider what your next best alternative is and bid at an amount that makes it
definitely worthwhile for you to give that up.

It doesn't matter if that's _i get everything and you get nothing_ in your
opinion, because you are giving the company a the choice to decide whether
your offer is worthwhile or whether they have to go for their next best
alternative.

------
ChuckMcM
Interesting, if confusing post. Things are simpler than they seem, the
complication is pricing the unknown.

Basically if I told you "I am from the future, this company is going to change
its industry in a fundamental way, all the early people from here are rich and
influential in the industry. Many have gone on to found new companies of their
own and become richer and more famous."

You might take your existing practice, wrap it up, and jump in with both feet
knowing that the "future" is assured.

If I say, "Hi I'm from the future and this company doesn't exist in that time,
it tried really hard, floundered around and kept missing opportunity after
opportunity. Eventually it ran out of money and everyone was laid off with no
severance."

Now you say, you know I'll just stay a consultant as long as the checks don't
bounce.

I've got really sad news for you, you can't.

The outcome is controlled by things that may contributed to by your
negotiation, but probably won't directly depend on that negotiation. The
absolutely best you can hope for is to learn something from the experience and
to have fun doing it. Everything else is up to things you cannot control.

So sit down and decide if you want to work on this project full time, to
commit to it and making it a success. Figure out if you will learn enough and
get enough experience to make it worth while. There are obvious things you do
like verify they folks are not crooks, and that they are telling you the
truth. Ask questions about the future the company, its funding etc.

Since you are starting from a position of keeping your existing clients
serviced, it sounds like you'd rather be a consultant than a full time
employee. Listen to that if it is where your passion lies.

------
jakejake
If you really want to keep your consulting business, this is a great
opportunity to bring on another person.

------
name_space
Hey dude! went through a similar situation. Had a great relationship with them
(startup), never doubt their word, the product was landing clients and
valuation was awesome. Things didn't go as expected. Still have my business
though it has come out damaged.

What I've learned: Don't ignore the signs, I never got to know why the
previous developer dropped out. Ensure that you have a voice in every
decision. Work with them, get to know them through rough times. Go over their
metrics, are the clients really happy, is there any structural issue? Startups
bullshit all the time.

Don't take any decision under pressure. If you have too, make them sign a
contract that would protect you and you're current assets, that's what you're
bringing into this enterprise.

------
kayoone
Freelancers (i am one myself) often have a fear of binding themselves to a
single company for a longer period of time. This can be good or bad. When i
got interviewed by a top european startup their HR thinking was like
"Freelancers are more risky, because they might get bored quite fast and
leave". Thats true to some extent, on the other hand i personally like the
idea to really go deep on a project for 2-3 years instead of jumping from
project to project.

In your specific case i wonder:

\- Would this be a project that you would want to work on for next couple of
years even if it doesn't take off immediately ?

\- why did the other programmer leave if the company seems to be so well off ?

\- how good is the salary really ? If they had money, wouldn't they find good
people in Hamburg quite easily ?

~~~
mweser
To your first question: I had the exact situation with one of my former
clients. The product didn't take of but still, i support them and if changes
have to be made on their product i am still the one who does it. I guess, i
would treat this new customer the same. This is basicly one of the reasons
that i cannot assure more than 3 days - i sometimes want / need to work for my
previous customers.

Second: my feeling is that there was nothing bad going on and the reason that
he left is that he had to travel 2h twice every day. But i certainly will
check that.

Third: I don't like to compare salaries but i think it is beyond avarage in
this town. The problem is, that Hamburg is not quite the tech city, it is
really hard to find good devs here.

~~~
kayoone
hm sure? I believe Hamburg is probably one of the biggest places for startups
in germany behind Berlin and i personally know quite a few awesome devs from
HH. More web/mobile orientated though, you seem to be more into .NET based
stuff.

------
moron4hire
I had to make a very similar decision about a year ago. I came to the same
conclusion: they could count on me just as much as a freelancer than as an
employee, and I'd rather keep my options open rather than get tied to a single
company, because I have my own, unrelated plans in the works.

I suppose one could make the argument that I'm going to miss out on a huge
pay-day if I'm not that sort of committed. I am balancing the likelihood of
that occurring + the likelihood they'd expect unreasonable overtime from me
versus the likelihood that I'd find that my own way and the likelihood I'd be
fine working overtime for myself. Freelancing is the only way I know how to
maintain my work-life balance.

~~~
mweser
>Freelancing is the only way I know how to maintain my work-life balance. my
biggest "fear" is to be stuck there for years... so your way is currently my
best option i guess.

------
lnanek2
Just remember, if you only give them three days like this, they will replace
you ASAP. Sounded like they were over a barrel and you were fine without them,
you should have offered to work full time for double the pay or some other
super high price.

------
cjbprime
Tell them what you'd like to have happen and see what they suggest in
response. Since they like you already, they are unlikely to respond to hearing
what you'd like by telling you to get lost. :)

------
patatino
"When I’m not deep-in-the-zone ahead on a project writing awesome code, ..."

wow, that's some self confidence.

------
lightblade
Fir...tech world problem

