
iMac Pro - rl3
https://www.apple.com/imacpro/
======
nkw
This is getting to the point that honestly I would rather just pay Apple for a
license to OS X and buy the hardware I want. I'm sure I am in the minority,
but I would shell out $600+ to legally use OS X on a Hackintosh with worrying
about updates breaking the setup. I own a trashcan MacPro and Macbook Pro and
just want to be able to do development on a desktop with a decent Nvidia
graphics card and a laptop with at least 32G of ram.

~~~
qubex
I'm with you on that. I've never built a hackintosh but the hardware support
this brings, combined with the constrained all-in-one form factor I personally
disdain, is pushing me towards building an iMac Pro-logical equivalent
hackintosh. If I could pay to have a legal licence and support for it, I'd do
so in a flash.

------
qubex
On the whole, an all-in-one design for what is purportedly a professional-
grade machine isn't exactly enticing (no expandability, impossibility of
having multiple identical monitors, & cetera).

But on second thoughts the hardware support this will bring to macOS will
enable the construction of some really powerful, up-to-date hackintosh systems
at very reasonable price-points.

~~~
jdboyd
The Thunderbolt 3 ports are each somewhere in the neighborhood of the
bandwidth of a PCIe 8x slot, arguably giving this about the approximately the
expandability of an HP or Dell single socket workstation.

I'm not saying this should be preferred to a traditional tower, just that it
isn't fair to say it has no expandability.

~~~
qubex
I'm of the internal-cards over external-cables school of thought. I've been
plugging circuit boards into backplanes since the S-100 bus era, and I'm very
much committed to the idea of a discrete computer chassis containing all the
major computing components as a distinct entity compared to the screen. I
still have desktop machines because of this.

------
rl3
Some interesting things to note from the specs[0]:

1\. An 18-core processor option, 4TB of storage (hopefully NVMe) and 128GB of
RAM. That's _crazy_ for an iMac form factor. I'm surprised Apple is even
continuing the traditional Mac Pro form factor, considering.

2\. Specific details on AMD Vega's pro models:

 _Radeon Pro Vega 56 graphics processor with 8GB of HBM2 memory | Configurable
to Radeon Pro Vega 64 graphics processor with 16GB of HBM2 memory_

Having a GPU with 16GB of HBM2 doesn't necessitate an external graphics card
in the vast majority of cases. It'll be interesting if you can then hook up
additional external graphics cards to augment its GPU power for either high-
end 3D work or deep learning applications.

I'm guessing we may see people hooking up external Nvidia GPUs just so they
can take advantage of CUDA, which is kind of a shame considering the specs of
the onboard Vega hardware.

Metal 2 introduces compute shaders however, so I'm not sure if Apple intends
to challenge CUDA primacy. Considering their reliance on AMD GPUs, it would be
in their interest to do so—or at least somehow convince Nvidia to discontinue
their anti-competitive practice of locking CUDA to Nvidia GPUs.

[0] [https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/specs/](https://www.apple.com/imac-
pro/specs/)

EDIT: As other commenters pointed out, I incorrectly speculated the Mac Pro
form factor was done for. On the contrary, its continuation is officially
confirmed. My comment has been updated accordingly. Thanks!

~~~
tambourine_man
"In addition to the new iMac Pro, Apple is working on a completely redesigned,
next-generation Mac Pro architected for pro customers who need the highest-
end, high-throughput system in a modular design, as well as a new high-end pro
display."

[https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/06/imac-pro-most-
powerfu...](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/06/imac-pro-most-powerful-mac-
arrives-december/)

~~~
striking
And you'll only have to wait until after 2017 for it. [1]

1: 'These next-gen Mac Pros and pro displays “will not ship this year”. (I
hope that means “next year”, but all Apple said was “not this year”.)' from
[https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives](https://daringfireball.net/2017/04/the_mac_pro_lives)

~~~
tqkxzugoaupvwqr
When Apple did this blogger event a couple of weeks ago to update the tech
scene about the future of the Mac Pro, it sounded like they were surprised
their pro users wanted updated Mac Pros, not just iMacs. It appears Apple only
then decided to work on an update (redesign) of the Mac Pro. So don’t bet on
next year. They just started the research for a complete new design.

------
titanomachy
They claim that to build your own workstation comparable to their $5k base
model would cost at least $7k. I would be interested to see a breakdown of
this cost; it seems a bit implausible on the surface, but I don't really have
experience with these kind of workstations.

~~~
jrs95
That's probably true if you're going to be getting Xeon processors, ECC RAM,
etc. But if you were to go for consumer grade hardware with similar
performance, you'd probably come in at well under $5000. The cost of a 5K
display is definitely something that should be considered as well, though.

~~~
solidr53
Something I saw on engadget:
[https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jqPdTH](https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jqPdTH)

~~~
pimlottc
That looks pretty close. A few small things are missing if you want complete
parity:

* wireless keyboard and mouse * bluetooth * 802.11ac * 10GB ethernet * speakers * web cam

I'm sure you could budget those comfortably within the remaining $800 or so.

------
atemerev
Sorry, I'll pass until Mac Pro is announced.

I want to put my stuff _inside_ the case, I have enough wires on my desk
already. Upgradable RAM would be fine, too.

~~~
qubex
Definitely.

------
codq
Due to naming parity, this all but confirms an 'iPhone Pro' this fall.

~~~
dyarosla
I imagine that Apple doesn't think all of their users are "Pro" or want to be
lumped in a "Pro" category, nor want to use their phones for purely "Pro"
purposes. I would bet good money that Apple will definitely _not_ name their
next iPhone Pro.

~~~
codq
I'd agree with you, but the 'MacBook Pro' hasn't been marketed at actual
'pros' in generations.

~~~
simonh
They're aimed mainly at creative professionals. Pro is not a synonym for Dev.

------
5_minutes
Well, at least this should shut up the complainers about apple hardware. There
is now really going to be an option.

It's not great, it's not something to be enthusiastic about but it's better
then rumbling about the next iOS version of something.

~~~
simonh
> this should shut up the complainers about apple hardware.

Welcome to HN. I take it you're new here?

------
hoodoof
It's going to take five years of ~ yearly hardware refreshes of all product
lines for me to believe that Apple still knows how to be a computer company.

I think once they've refreshed all the product lines in the current cycle -
which is a response to a screaming customer base, Apple will wipe its brow and
say "phew that was hard dealing with all those customer demands", and get back
to refreshes every five years.

Apple just no longer has the same DNA as all those Chinese hardware
manufacturers who blitz new products in constantly.

------
r0fl
No matter what apple does it will not satisfy "pro" users. Computers either
not fast enough, too expensive, not upgradable enough.

------
droithomme
That profile view on the apple page looks like it is really fat, the fattest
iMac since the translucent plastic CRT monitor days.

Where is the new expandable Mac Pro Tim has been telling us about for several
months, the machine that would get us to stop needing to make Hackintoshes? No
where to be seen.

> four Thunderbolt 3 ports with support for up to two 5K displays, a 1080p
> FaceTime camera, realtime 3D rendering, and much more. Other specs start at
> a 5K built-in display, 8-core Xeon processors, Radeon Vega graphics, 32GB
> ECC memory, and 10GB Ethernet. The new iMac Pro will start at $4999.

Only 4 ports and none of them USB 3. No USB for keyboard or mouse, so heavy
battery laden wireless mouse only. Great, more carpal tunnel fun, plus the joy
of recharging batteries when there is no real need.

I don't need two 5k monitors. I need a development machine I can add hard
drives and dual reasonable sized monitors to. In the non-expandible limited
port iMac range of machine for grandma I need practical ports and a price
about 1/5 the stated price.

Fortunately I have found all I need in the Hackintosh world for Mac compatible
stuff, and Linux for everything else.

~~~
CPLX
Unless that picture is totally misleading it looks like there's also 4 older
format USB ports on the back.

------
shady-lady
> Billowing smoke. Torrential rain. A wheat field in the wind. With up to 18
> cores and Hyper-Threading, iMac Pro lets you build and render particle
> systems of all kinds — static or animated, 2D or 3D — with ease.

I always thought every effect listed here was catered for by GPU power, not
CPU power?

~~~
mcphage
Physics are often rendered on the CPU.

------
JonRB
I'm personally concerned about the claimed 500W power - Surely that isn't
enough?

------
falloutx
The full specs are just unbelievable. I know you can create a comparable
computer with 30% savings, but packing this much power into an iMac is just
insane. I don't think i would be able to buy one ever.

------
jrs95
Since the Surface Studio gets nearly this expensive, it'll be interesting to
see where Microsoft takes it in the future.

~~~
JohnTHaller
Surface Studio is a very different beast than an iMac Pro. The Surface Studio
isn't trying to be a powerhouse unit... it uses a mobile GPU. It's designed to
be a creation workstation with the unique screen, knob, and stylus but not
really a powerhouse render-er.

------
floatboth
Xeon instead of Threadripper, looks like they're really tied to Intel. Vega
hype though!

------
GiorgioG
At $4999 for the base model they can keep it.

~~~
jdboyd
I thought that seemed terrible, but then when I tried configuring a Dell and
HP with 8 cores, 32 gigs of ram, 1TB flash, and a good display, I kept hitting
similar numbers.

~~~
atemerev
If you opt out of Xeon, you can build it for around $3k, complete with nVidia
1080. Mine is $2.5k, but I opted for a 4-core CPU, 32G ram, a 1080, and 1TB
flash. Works perfectly.

~~~
Finnucane
Including the 5K monitor?

~~~
atemerev
No, 4K. I am not sure if 5k makes all the difference (at least for me, as a
software engineer/researcher). However, I understand it might be important for
many people.

~~~
Finnucane
Okay, but what you've shown is that you can build a cheaper system with
cheaper not-so-top-of-the-line components. Well, sure. You can also buy a
cheaper iMac.

~~~
GiorgioG
Xeon is a server-class CPU, the i7 is a desktop class CPU...doesn't mean
they're not both top of the line components. Couple of major downside of iMacs
(I have an original 5k iMac) are that I can't use it as a monitor for my other
systems and I can't upgrade anything (RAM is already maxed out.) If you're
all-in to Apple's ecosystem, it might make sense, but I just don't see the
value myself (having a ton of Apple tech, but slowly moving away, I can't
justify the $ when I can build an upcoming i9 or AMD Thread Ripper (terrible
name btw) based machine for half the cost with similar/better performance.)
Yep I'll lose OSX, but Win10 + Linux Subsystem solves most of my needs.

------
SurrealSoul
Personally, I think this is by far apple's worst announcement page. Maybe
because I viewed it on firefox, at a weird screen size, but the last two
panels never loaded for me. The "thermal viewer" element is identical to the
speaker panel sans the cool airflow demo. The huge "500 nits 43% brighter One
billion colors Support for 10-bit spatial and temporal dithering." li's are
really ugly to me. The panel header text looks nice and big, why do you have
to use these super H1s?

Maybe I am just bitter here, but the only thing I like is the keyboard

------
motoboi
OMG, what happened to the superb Apple product pages? This is just ugly!

~~~
pavlov
It's maybe off-topic to discuss the page design, but I agree.

I hate these landing pages that are effectively PowerPoints -- very little
information per screenful of content, with crap transition effects between
every "slide".

------
6stringmerc
Where's the metal loop to connect the chain so I can use it as a Boat Anchor
in 8 years after forced obsolescence? It's not a bug, it's a feature!

