
Help fight trafficking by uploading photos of your hotel room - benryon
https://traffickcam.com/
======
miracle2k
There have been a number of such initiatives. So far, I have seen no evidence
that any sex trafficking has been surfaced by them.

The only result, always, is arrest of sex workers who in the US of course face
criminal prosecution.

When you read about dozens of arrests in a big sex trafficking investigation,
it is always woman who are being arrested, and on occasion clients.

[https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/when-the-robert-
kr...](https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/when-the-robert-kraft-case-
fell-apart-the-women-were-l-1834857778/amp)

~~~
dkersten
I’ve heard of one a few years ago where there was a painting in the background
that eventually was used to identify the hotel and then the hotel records
could be used to tie it to a person. It was a number of years ago so I don’t
remember the details to look them up.

I’m not sure how effective it is overall, and am certainly wary of anything
privacy-eroding, but I do remember reading that story around the time it
happened.

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gwbas1c
The first thing this site does is ask me for my location, and then berates me
for not sharing my location.

Don't assume that someone opening
[https://traffickcam.com/](https://traffickcam.com/) is there just to upload
photos. Wait until I actually push some kind of "upload photos" button before
you request my location.

FWIW: Whenever I open some unknown web site on the internet, I _NEVER_ share
my location. I only share my location when it's clear that location sharing is
needed for a specific action.

------
metaphor
> _TraffickCam requires access to your location to double check that the
> photos you submit are actually taken at the hotel you select._

Ask for your thoughtful consideration...then your time of day...then your
photos...then your tolerance for batshit ridiculous latency...then your on-
the-spot location.

Seriously?

------
DeathArrow
<irony>

Wouldn't governments have an easier life if all citizens would wear a
mandatory Internet connected camera from birth?

Add an GPS sensor and an RFID tag and we're all set.

</irony>

~~~
Fjolsvith
Then we would have to force all immigrants to actually use legal entry so they
could also be fitted.

The problem with trafficking is that many victims have entered the US
illegally and there are no records of their existence that cause authorities
to question their whereabouts or even suspect they exist.

~~~
chopin
This can be solved with enough cameras. When those spot someone they
immediately can check whether the person is tagged correctly. If not -> that's
left as an exercise for the reader.

~~~
Fjolsvith
That has 4th amendment illegal search issues all over it.

Edit: And that solution allows a person to continue to support the open
border/sex trafficking trade.

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saagarjha
Why can’t hotels just do this themselves?

~~~
draugadrotten
"Without user-submitted photos, the machine-learning system would rely only on
photos from travel sites, which tend to be extremely clean and well-lit—a far
cry from most evidence police are working with. "

[https://gwtoday.gwu.edu/using-computer-science-tackle-
human-...](https://gwtoday.gwu.edu/using-computer-science-tackle-human-
trafficking)

~~~
saagarjha
Freed from these pictures being used for advertising themselves, hotels could
submit “average” pictures…

~~~
draugadrotten
Indeed. Nothing stops them.

~~~
Loughla
I feel like any hotel owner would stop that from happening. Even if the net
result is positive (catch the predator), the individual hotel will forever be
associated with a negative (hey, look, there's the hotel that was used by
predators).

I think that's what stops them?

~~~
close04
For some hotels business is business. So they put the morals aside and turn a
blind eye. Other higher end hotels simply prefer to do their own due diligence
since reputation matters in the business. So they may address the issues but
outside of any public eye.

------
aaron695
So we are handing over even more of our spaces to Law enforcement because
won't somebody think of the children.

Has TraffickCam ever made a match on Sex Trafficking?

Whats to stop it's use for other crimes, like an Asian countries government
using it to track meetings of the opposition? Or the location of a refugee.

And who is running this? Where does the $ go.

~~~
imgabe
Maybe don't take pictures of your secret government opposition meeting and
post them on the Internet?

Traffickers would need to post photos to advertise their trafficking. Those
photos could then be matched and traced. Secret government opposition meetings
have no need to post photos. Indeed, if you are taking photos at all at your
secret government opposition meeting, you are doing it wrong.

To quote Stringer Bell "...are you taking notes on a motherfucking criminal
conspiracy???"

~~~
njharman
At least in the USA every data set available to police, every law of any
strength has been extended, stretched or fragrantly misapplied/used (sometimes
ruled illegally after the fact when defendant is able to determine what they
did and has the means and wherewithal to appeal) well beyond its "sold"
purpose. PATRIOT Act, Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, parallel construction to
allow NSA data collections to be used domestically, many others.

They have it. The incentive to use it "catch" people they know are criminals
is great. So they use it. Why not, we're only using it to put away the "bad"
people.

~~~
creato
How can this dataset be abused?

A photo of a hotel room, at nonspecific times and without people in it, seems
as close to harmless as can be. And there is apparently a law enforcement use
case for it that makes sense and does not violate anyone's rights.

I am so tired of reading this same slippery slope comment posted hundreds of
times per day to HN. It seems like HN will settle for nothing less than law
enforcement operating with the same tools and technology they had in 1776.
This is very far outside what most people want, and in my opinion, by
agitating against things like this for no clear reason helps to keep debate
about other more real and significant privacy concerns we are dealing with
today on the fringes.

~~~
pvaldes
> How can this dataset be abused?

Install now "scapegoatfinder" app. and kindly help a prosecutor with his
political career to find travelling latinos and blacks available in the area

Some people were being jailed because a non-whit... err, a similar people
appeared in a blurry video doing a crime. Now you can help police to track you
and do part of the job for free.

Not to mention that police has yet a written report with the list of people
that went to a place of interest in the week of interest (obligatory by law
for all hotel owners if I'm not wrong). All that they need is to take a look
to the facebook of this people to find plenty of photos and then discretely
match it with their own photos. Maybe book a weekend to be extra sure.
Facebook could perfectly make some additional profit selling this info (if is
not doing it yet).

~~~
creato
This sounds like an argument for "anything that makes it easier for police to
find people is bad", which I think is a pretty extreme position.

~~~
pvaldes
This is not finding people, is massively tracking people, without a jury
order. Is a fishing trip.

Policemen do not need this apps. There are several police agents in each
village, the 95% of the territory could be covered in a weekend just paying a
visit to the five local hotels in the city, all at the same time. For bigger
cities it would just take more time but is not an unfeasible task. Secret
police could just book as travelling salesmen in any place of interest and
silently comb the place for hours registering each crack in the tiles and each
stain in the wooden floor.

As most hotels buy in mass furniture, pictures and machines, a combination of
common objects will appear in all rooms. To make a database covering the 98%
of hotels opened to public would not take more than two years probably,
specially if they forget about pictures on the wall and focuse in rarely
changing furniture or machines. To cross the database with vendors of some air
conditioner model is not an unreachable goal. To estimate the area max of a
room (or the size of a bed) in a photo showing a crime, can be done as long as
you have enough pictures in the video. Tiles came in standard sizes. Maybe
even a IA machine could be developped to search for a crack with the form of a
particular broken polyline in the filtered results. Maybe police has it yet
since 10 years ago... I don't know.

And there is facebook also to achieve a finer grain definition in particular
areas.

Therefore the _only_ thing new that the app adds to the equation is "you". You
and the aspect of your room when you were using it.

The app is just an excuse to lure people into agreeing to be tracked, (maybe
hoping that they forget about it later?). Moreover, to be tracked
unnecessarily (it would only take a further visit to the place of interest to
confirm the info, as I said. Policemen visit hotels in their area routinely).

But this info and agreeing can bite hard later the user in many unpredictable
ways of course. For users is a "loser" situation.

------
rshnotsecure
I agree with the other commenter. This could just as much fight trafficking as
it could be an "FDCS" or "Foreign Data Collection Scheme"

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute has some excellent examples in their
paper from a few months ago. If anyone knows if similar work being done,
please suggest.

[1] - [https://www.aspi.org.au/report/engineering-global-consent-
ch...](https://www.aspi.org.au/report/engineering-global-consent-chinese-
communist-partys-data-driven-power-expansion)

~~~
wheelerwj
I can't speak about OPs specific project specifically but this is a relatively
old tactic used by authorities to help both human trafficking as well as child
pornography/abuse.

I've heard about several times in my work with various government agencies
over the last 10-15 years.

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guiltygods
This is redundant now. Almost all hotels post pictures of their hotel rooms
online now.

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drtyolmck
do we have to be naked?

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binarysneaker
nope.

