
LSD 'microdosing' is trending in Silicon Valley - evo_9
https://theconversation.com/lsd-microdosing-is-trending-in-silicon-valley-but-can-it-actually-make-you-more-creative-72747
======
hellofunk
I would strongly encourage anyone looking for new perceptions that aid in
concentration and/or creativity to first really try, and properly try, and
without giving up too soon, the art of meditation.

It's cheaper, safer, longer-lasting, and most certainly a higher-quality
experience once properly learned.

~~~
krisoft
What would you recommend, how could one start meditating? Is there a practice,
or book or something you would specifically recommend? And what time interval
would be not "too soon" in your opinion?

~~~
e1g
I am a huge supporter of Headspace (the app), and 4 other people in my life
stuck with it after passing through many other options.

Headspace offers a broad library of targeted programs, and I can pick a topic
that causes the most friction right now - be it anxiety, productivity,
relationships, health, etc. Each program has a supporting structure and
provides continuity for my daily practice. I feel like I'm taking new baby
steps every day, and that sense of progress is motivating for me. I decide on
my time commitment (for me it's 10 minutes), and just put in headphones and
sit down. I have my phone and headphones nearly all the time, so I've done
this on the train, in the park during lunch, on a side street bench, in a
taxi, etc.

In the year I've been using it, I have never finished a 10-minute session
without feeling significantly lighter and more composed when I got up. I
_still_ don't do it daily (humans, hey), but for me it was the only thing that
stuck. Give it couple weeks.

~~~
bluebeard
I've done the first free 10 days and was surprised by the results from
something so simple.

------
M_Grey
Ah yes... you see it anywhere that people are closely matched and seek
perceived "edges". Athletes wear their copper bullshit, Valley types take
stimulants and psychedelics. It's a symptom of people not understanding the
nature of survivorship bias, hindsight fallacy in general, and an inability to
delay gratification for a greater reward.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the drug, but there's something
inherently wrong with the behavior around it, by people who are so desperate
for edge. Down that road ultimately lies Lance Armstrong, and East German
women with beards.

~~~
slantaclaus
The comparison of copper bracelets to LSD is pretty weak in that if you take
LSD, something WILL HAPPEN

~~~
M_Grey
You can take a sugar pill and something will happen... we're talking about a
microdose after all, not a full hit.

~~~
csp256
Go take a sugar pill and 50ug of LSD and tell me which one is a placebo.

------
always_good
It's hard for me to imagine getting any meaningful programming work done on
even a low dose of acid.

One look at my computer and I go "I sure waste a lot of my life on this thing.
I'm going to go outside."

~~~
slantaclaus
That's what psilocybin would do, maybe not lsd. Shrooms will send you to the
woods though for sure

------
jostmey
I interpret this as Silicon valley losing its way. I'm not judging LSD use,
but if you need it to get through the day then you need to find a different
career. If you need your high paying, high stress job to afford your
lifestyle, you need to find a more economically friendly environment.

~~~
Waterluvian
You may be right. But I see it from a different angle. I don't see this as
using drugs to get through the day. I see it as trying to get something for
nothing. It feels like a very Silicon Valley attitude to want to discover a
free lunch; some sort of bonus optimization.

I would probably most expect this to come from Silicon Valley, Wall Street,
professional sports, etc. Anywhere that fosters an attitude of seeking
significant optimization or getting something for nothing.

Though this is all just personal perception. It's certainly filled with bias.

~~~
SomeStupidPoint
It's not trying to get "something for nothing", it's trying to tune your
brain/body to the workload you actually perform by altering the way signals
propagate.

Tuning low-level settings to optimize the stack for the workload expected is
standard engineering practice. Heck, we even do it in hardware: deciding if we
want higher single-thread performance or higher throughput for a given heat
envelope.

~~~
spraak
It sounds you practice micro dosing? You speak nearly in a vernacular about it

------
hashkb
Careful not to over-micro-dose, then it's just a really weird day at work.
Heard from a friend.

~~~
ryanlol
Or a really fun day at work!

~~~
Thrillington
Possibly a really fun _last_ day at work

------
exodust
Makes sense in theory and to be honest is intriguing.

Provided the quality and dosage was strictly controlled and adjusted to fit
the user. Discipline also needed to avoid too much too often. Doesn't help
that it's illegal.

You wouldn't want to be doing it to fix a "normal problem" that could be
addressed by eating nutritious food and getting more sleep for example.

Psychedelics aren't suited to capitalist agendas either. The idea is to use
psychedelics away from the office for perspective and focus shift. I suppose
that's normal dosages though, and the idea here is micro-dosages which would
be more like a good strong coffee but a clearer more mental buzz.

An extra hit above the micro-dose might make you shut down your PC and head to
the park for the rest of the day. Risk.

Let's face it, we're not all building things that are making the world a
better place. Psychedelics tend to expose anything trivial that's masquerading
as important. Your ability to discriminate genuine from fake is sharper. At
normal dosages at least, you feel attracted to these insights and will follow
them out the door if that's where they lead.

------
reese_john
gwern has a great write-up on this:
[https://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing](https://www.gwern.net/LSD%20microdosing)

~~~
Analemma_
Where he reports a null result. It's wasting your money, take a full dose or
not at all.

~~~
boomboomsubban
It's a sample size of one, even a well designed test is basically meaningless.
Plus, from my research on the subject, a full dose can have positive effects
for months after the experience. Taking a full dose around a week before the
experiment may have tainted the data.

~~~
Analemma_
It's a sample size of one, but considering the rigorous methodology used I
think it counts for at least as much evidence as the anecdotes of people going
"it totally boosts my creativity man" with no control group and subjective
measurements of efficacy that are highly vulnerable to a placebo effect.

------
lcw
I feel like I have the obligation to say that if you are a generally a happy
person and good at what you do I highly doubt taking LSD in any dose is worth
the risk of a bad trip. Not sure why HN has an affinity for LSD? It's pretty
psychologically dangerous imho.

~~~
grzm
_Not sure why HN has an affinity for LSD?_

Please don't make generalizations about the entirety of HN. You're a member of
the HN community as well: do you have an affinity for LSD? If you have some
stats backing this up, I think a lot of people would find it interesting: at
least I would.

~~~
tossaway1
I think it's clear that lcw was making an observation about the tone of HN
comments on the topic. I found it to be a reasonable one that matches my
perception.

Disputing his comment makes sense if you think he's wrong, but it seems
unreasonable to require people to back up such commentary with "stats".

~~~
grzm
There's a tendency in discourse to make generalizations across large groups of
people, which degrades our ability to see the nuance and diversity of opinion
and perspective that clearly exists. This gets particularly pernicious when
discussing contentious topics. Given the how damaging this can be (current
political discourse in the US or here on HN is a good example), making such
generalizations really needs to be justified.

In 'lcw's comment, the generalization doesn't add anything substantive to the
comment. Indeed, one could read it as disparaging to the HN community because
it's too naïve to understand the risks of LSD, rather than granting the
members the benefit of the doubt that they're capable of making reasonable
decisions. And that's ultimately the point: by making generalizations like
this, it doesn't add anything substantive or constructive to the comment and
ignores the wide range of opinions across the HN community.

Edit to add: As an aside, you mention that 'lcw's observation matches your
perception. It's well known that our perceptions are often wrong, or at least
skewed. That's why backing them up with data is important, to make sure our
perceptions are consistent with reality.

~~~
tossaway1
Healthy discourse can include both qualitative and quantitative commentary. I
think HN readers can generally differentiate between the two. We don't need
comment police complaining that some qualitative comments are lacking
statistical support.

~~~
grzm
Sure, there can be qualitative and quantitative commentary. I don't agree that
generalizations of groups of people are worthwhile qualititive commentary. One
final question: is 'lcw's initial comment improved by the inclusion of the
statement regarding HN?

~~~
Chris2048
> is 'lcw's initial comment improved by the inclusion of the statement
> regarding HN?

Why does it matter? Is lcw's statement regarding HN improved by the initial
statement?

------
xatan_dank
I think microdosing LSD for the purpose of increased work performance is
absolutely ridiculous. I have absolutely nothing against performance enhancing
drugs in the workplace or other areas so long as the drugs themselves can be
taken safely, but I think the use of LSD and psychedelics in general for this
purpose is misguided for several reasons.

I think self-reported gains in creativity are meaningless in defending LSD
microdosing. Psychedelics are not magic creativity chemicals and their use
does not inherently make anyone more creative. How are we defining creative?
What does that even mean? Is the code I wrote on LSD really that much better
than the code I wrote sober or on a different drug or combination of drugs
altogether? What about strategic business decisions, design work, or
documentation? How does one accurately measure 'creativity'\- is that even a
desired trait while working for most people?

I also don't see why it's necessary to use hallucinogens during the work day.
Why can't you just drop acid on the weekend or vacation when you actually have
the time to enjoy the experience (as heavily as you'd like) in whatever
setting you feel most comfortable in? If you really are invested enough in
your career to do psychedelics for the sole purpose of workplace creativity,
can't you just do your creative thinking then? I think this approach to
applying hallucinogens to your work would be as effective as microdosing, if
not more so.

My biggest criticism is this though: isn't the whole point of psychedelics the
expansion of consciousness and wisdom beyond its current state? The
psychedelic community is generally a fairly anti-authoritarian one and I tend
to think that it's not just because the state often treats the use of
hallucinogens with the same level of violence as far more socially dangerous
behavior. Using psychedelics for as shallow of a reason as coming up with ways
to better optimize your stupid advertisement platform to sell foot cream to
seniors is a tragedy. Besides, there already exist drugs for this purpose
(coffee).

And these points ignore the main risks which are obviously being caught and
having an adverse health effect.

I think this is a stupid trend highly indicative of just how boring and
uncreative the tech industry is. At the end of the day, some of us use drugs
to get through the work day. If you want to use psychedelics to do so, that's
your business, I don't know how you function, but I doubt you're drastically
outperforming the coffee guy or the straight edge guy at the office.

~~~
pmoriarty
There have been some studies on the effect of psychedelics on creativity. A
particularly relevant study by Oscar Janiger has been documented in _LSD,
Spirituality, and the Creative Process_.[1] Other studies (including ones on
microdosing) are discussed in _The Psychedelic Explorer 's Guide_ by James
Fadiman.[2]

That said, this is a wide open field that could greatly benefit from more
research. I am hopeful that such research will once again become acceptable to
the scientific establishment before too long, as a number of studies on other
effects of psychedelics have recently been completed with much success.

[1] - [https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-
Gro...](https://www.amazon.com/LSD-Spirituality-Creative-Process-
Groundbreaking/dp/0892819731/)

[2] - [https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-
Therapeut...](https://www.amazon.com/Psychedelic-Explorers-Guide-Therapeutic-
Journeys/dp/1594774021/)

------
pmoriarty
What I wonder is whether the stuff on the street is really LSD. There's a lot
of counterfeit material floating around, and (as far as I know) no testing
kits that can detect the real thing. I'd be very wary -- especially at larger
doses.

~~~
tim333
LSD is usually LSD because it is way more potent per unit volume than any
other recreational drug. It's also cheap per dose. In terms of not knowing
what you are getting it's much more common to find stuff like 'mdma' actually
containing LSD. It's true it can be hard to know the dose. I'd also be very
wary more because LSD can cause harm than it possibly being something else.

As an aside here's a dosage guide:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/2hg6io/different_dosag...](https://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/2hg6io/different_dosage_of_lsd_explained_from_20ug1500ug/)

~~~
pmoriarty
_" LSD is usually LSD because it is way more potent per unit volume than any
other recreational drug."_

This used to be true, but is very unfortunately not true any more. Newer
synthetic drugs, like bromo-dragonfly, are approaching LSD in potency[1]
making them essentially indistinguishable from LSD in practice, and resulting
in actual fatalities.[2][3]

[1] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-
DragonFLY#Dosage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY#Dosage)

[2] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-
DragonFLY#Toxicity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromo-DragonFLY#Toxicity)

[3] -
[https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly...](https://erowid.org/chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml)

------
homakov
I don't know about microdosing, but 300ug kept me 40+ hours awake and caused
anxiety/insomnia for 6 months afterwards. So be careful.

------
intrasight
I'll stick to meditation, yoga, and the occasional premium IPA. I do
understand the compelling nature of chemical enhancement - especially for
creative endevours. David Bowie cranked out amazing albums year-after-year
while high on coke. But like usual, it became a problem he had to address.

~~~
api
Heavy stimulants are like running your car with NoS all the time. You'll get
amazing performance until your engine fires a rod through your hood. Bowie had
a near psychotic break.

Much lighter use however may be more sustainable. There is no law that says
the human brain can't be tuned a little for different modes, and I have no
problem with people doing that. There may still be tradeoffs though, so anyone
doing this should try to be self aware and observe the effects carefully.

------
stevehiehn
Hmm, i thought your body builds tolerance to LSD very quickly. I've seen
people at music festivals take twice as much the next day to get the same
effect.

~~~
bhoeting
It does. You're supposed to microdose every 4 days to avoid tolerance buildup.

------
sbussard
But why?

------
imperio59
How about not? Drugs still have incredibly harmful effects. Some people take
trips and never come back off these drugs. Imagine going to work in the
morning on a supposed "micro"dose just to realize you had an overdose and end
up in a psych ward for two weeks. You'll also likely lose your job as most
tech companies have no drug in the workplace policies...

This is just another BS article from someone who knows nothing about how drugs
can very dramatically Fuck up a person's life.

(How do I know? I've worked with many recovering drug addicts in the past who
all wish they had never started in the first place)

~~~
clccbcfd
Imagine not being totally clueless, dosing appropriately, and having a
relatively normal (perhaps a bit more open-minded) day at work. Not all drugs
are created equal, and almost all of them can be used responsibly.

I find the micro dosing trend distasteful, but I hate anti-drug propaganda
even more. This is just another BS comment from someone who has never done
drugs and looks to force their misinformed values and opinions onto others.

~~~
Thrillington
Drug abuse is a real thing and has extremely negative effects for individuals
and those in their lives.

That being said, it's a public health issue, not a criminal one. Abuse can
also be significantly curbed by open and honest discussion about the benefits
and negatives of various drugs. The DARE and scare model is an abject failure.

~~~
clccbcfd
Absolutely. I have no interest in partisan arguments on the issue, that's all.

edit: fwiw imperio59 has a post history repeatedly denigrating LSD, psychology
as a valid scientific practice, in addition to advocating for and linking to
Drug Free World, a Scientology-backed nonprofit. Not even worth replying to.

~~~
grzm
Your comment regarding another member would have a lot more weight coming from
an account with some history. It's bad form regardless to make comments like
this, but you're also using their comment history in doing so, yet denying
others from knowing your own.

