
Amazon stores Alexa transcripts indefinitely - iafrikan
https://www.iafrikan.com/2019/07/03/amazon-alexa-privacy-keeps-recordings-indefinitely/
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vitorgrs
What's the news here? The same happens with Google and Microsoft. You can even
check on their websites and see ALL your audios on Google Assistant and
Cortana. [https://myactivity.google.com](https://myactivity.google.com)

Even your dictations on Windows is there too (Win+H).
[https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-
history?view=...](https://account.microsoft.com/privacy/activity-
history?view=voice)

~~~
Spoom
FWIW you can turn off historical recording of e.g. voice activity on the
Activity Controls section of the Google My Activity page, along with a bunch
of other things.

~~~
ionwake
Mr Prosser: But the plans were on display…

Arthur: On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.

Mr Prosser: That’s the display department.

Arthur: With a torch.

Mr Prosser: The lights had probably gone out.

Arthur: So had the stairs.

Mr Prosser: But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?

------
vincent-toups
I'm tempted to feel that if you are dumb enough to put one of these things in
your house, you deserve to have your privacy obliterated by a huge private
corporation who is as likely to hand it over to a government as they are to
sell it to advertisers or worse.

I don't believe that, but it is shocking to me that anyone would want one of
these things.

~~~
Klathmon
So does that mean that everyone "dumb enough" to have a smartphone deserves to
have their privacy obliterated by the manufacturer of that phone?

And of course anyone within earshot of any of those devices also deserves to
have their privacy obliterated, even if they themselves don't own one?

I really don't understand why people don't get the utility in these things.
They're useful. Being able to control lights in the house, control the TV, set
timers and reminders, listen to music and the news, manage grocery lists, and
more are all super useful.

I have Google homes, and I (and my family) use them on a daily basis, they're
useful. That doesn't mean we forgo all privacy, that doesn't mean we deserve
any violations, that doesn't mean we are okay with information being collected
against our will.

My family and I are comfortable with the tradeoffs that the device makes, we
trust that the company won't break a ton of laws and won't be "listening" when
they explicitly say it's not. We are able to delete information we don't want
Google to keep, and we are even able to set the account to automatically
delete all recordings after a specific period of time if we want. And we trust
that the company isn't just lying when they very explicitly say that when you
delete something it is actually deleted.

I also support more laws and regulations around this, what they can store, how
long they can store it, what they can do with it, and mandated ways of
controlling your information.

You may have different priorities, and that's okay, but I absolutely hate this
idea that people who want the benefits of these devices deserve anything, and
the implication that only those who don't care about privacy have them. And a
token "I don't believe that" doesn't negate the sentiment you wrote right
above it. I'm an adult, I'm able to make a conscientious decision to trade
some of my privacy in a controlled way to get benefits from it, and that is no
more wrong than you wanting to protect your own privacy.

~~~
eternalban
None of these capabilities have an existential requirement for a centralized
networked infrastructure spanning the globe.

Stop and think how ludicrous it is that your being able to say to the room
"pick a random song and play it loud" requires fiber on ocean floors and huge
buildings running servers and the rest of it.

 _We 're being socialized into thinking privacy is an impediment to progress._

It is just a very bad idea to create a turn-key surveillance society and hope
and cross your fingers it never gets used.

~~~
raxxorrax
You are downvoted but I believe you are essentially correct. It is ridiculous
to send voice data all over the globe to be interpreted and send back to IOT
devices. Unnecessary and certainly not elegant, since mic and device are most
often in very close proximity.

Good for learning to analyze voice on the other hand, but your point is still
valid. We will get a compressed voice service that easily can be held in a
small device at some point, that makes this ridiculous data exchange
unnecessary.

~~~
cameronbrown
At I/O Google announced on-device transcription and NLP:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LQX9cLnZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LQX9cLnZk)

------
amanzi
To be fair, they make it easy to review and delete past recordings here:
[https://www.amazon.com/alexaprivacysettings](https://www.amazon.com/alexaprivacysettings)

~~~
fs2
I really doubt the recording is actually deleted from all of their servers.
Wouldn't be surprised when a few years from now there is another news item
about how they accidentally kept these logs in backups or how they were shared
with law enforcement or ad companies.

~~~
cremp
> kept these logs in backups

Is that unreasonable?

I mean, I cannot possibly expect _myself_ to go through my backups and delete
a folder from everything, down to the multi-year incremental.

Once you start tampering with a backup, it stops being a backup.

~~~
skybrian
This can be done by encrypting each backed-up item and forgetting the key for
deleted items that shouldn't be restorable from backup. You still need to
decide how long the keys should be kept, though.

------
kerng
Why not delete by default or after 30 days or something more user friendly...

~~~
me_me_me
Yeah I wonder why would they not voluntary delete all of that data?

~~~
pintxo
Why delete something if there might be the slightest chance of it being useful
in the future, and there is no downside (storage, reputation, legal)?

I assume storage of this data for them is nearly 0 cost, reputation is not an
issue as most >99% of people seem to simply don't care about privacy and there
is probably no legal limit.

~~~
_Codemonkeyism
"no legal limit."

There is in the EU. Keeping data indefinitely is illegal. Expert opinion
varies on how long you can keep it, many think you're save with 12 months,
most think 36 months is too long.

~~~
mytailorisrich
If it's personal data. A transcript in itself is not personal data unless an
individual can be identified or it is linked to an individual.

So "Alexa, order more beer" in itself can be kept for as long as you want. The
audio recording may be a different matter because of voice recognition.

As to how long personal data may be kept, well in the UK one can sue on a
civil matter for up to 6 years so there is a good argument that anything
related to the service you provide and in relation to which you might be sued
should be kept for 6 years. I expect it's similar in other countries.

~~~
kerng
According to the article the transcript is directly associated with the users.
It's some of the most personal PII there can be in my opinion.

One day it will all be compromised or misused, because that's what history
teaches us.

~~~
mytailorisrich
> According to the article the transcript is directly associated with the
> users

They just need to destroy that link and can then keep the transcripts for as
long as they want.

------
vasili111
Do you use any open source Alexa alternative? If yes, please share your
experience.

~~~
shawabawa3
I set up a [https://snips.ai/](https://snips.ai/) raspberry pi, got it to
respond to its wake word

Then realised it was going to take like 6+ hours (if not days) to get it to
play music and set timers, so gave up on it

Ecosystem might be more mature now, when i looked there weren't any good
spotify apps you could get for it

------
circlingthesun
Something something GDPR?

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sorokod
It will be interesting to see how this plays out wrt GDPR

~~~
ghawk1ns
It's not that interesting unfortunately. You can physically delete all of your
recordings at any time at
[https://www.amazon.com/alexaprivacysettings](https://www.amazon.com/alexaprivacysettings)

All of that data is wiped when you initiate a delete request under GDPR.

~~~
sorokod
What about privacy by default?

------
whatamidoingyo
After reading this thread I really think we need more people like Richard
Stallman in the world. "Embrace and educate", you'll say. No, people don't
care. Let them do what they will. I will not participate in the destruction of
privacy. However this, to me, isn't even the scariest part. The real scary
stuff is when you realize what this data is most certainly being used for.

Remember when the CIA gave unknowing citizens LSD? Remember the unclassified
docs that revealed their intentions to be able to basically warp a mind, and
control it at their will? Well, today, we hand them the data for deep
examination. Our emotions, intelligence, etc. will be revealed by a quick scan
of our face. Just imagine the databases these government agencies have
available. I imagine labs filled with scientists and engineers trying to
_crack_ the data.

It sounds conspiratorial, but come on. Imagine if you held humanities brain
within your hands. Would you not study it, trying to figure out how to make it
work more to your personal needs? Or maybe you'll tell yourself it's to make
society better, to make it safer.

Just a note: I'm not accusing the CIA exactly of doing this. There is no doubt
in my mind, though, that somebody is out there doing this (the CIA seems most
reasonable). Sorry for rambling, I've been awake for 24 hours (is there irony
in that?)

