
Relax for the Same Result (2015) - FeatureIncomple
https://sivers.org/relax
======
dredmorbius
For many physical efforts, overpacing and poor form can both rob you of
results. In particular, exceeding your aerobic threshold for any period of
time will require recovery time --- you can pull this off at the end of a ride
or in a critical effort (breakaway, hill ascent) where you'll get a chance to
recover afterwards, but full on and you're simply sabotaging yourself.
_Perceived_ effort is a very poor guide. In some activities there's a very
real risk of acute or chronic-overuse injury as well.

John Cleese talks of a similar concept in creative activity, learned from a
screenwriter who'd worked with Alfred Hitchcock:

 _When we came up against a block and our discussions became very heated and
intense, Hitchcock would suddenly stop and tell a story that had nothing to do
with the work at hand._

 _At first, I was almost outraged, and then I discovered that he did this
intentionally. He mistrusted working under pressure. He would say, “We 're
pressing, we're pressing, we're working too hard. Relax, it will come.” And,
says the writer, of course it finally always did._

[https://www.conversationagent.com/2012/04/lesson-in-
creativi...](https://www.conversationagent.com/2012/04/lesson-in-creativity-
from-hitchcock.html)

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=bC-
gBeQYHls&t=3m25s](https://youtube.com/watch?v=bC-gBeQYHls&t=3m25s)

~~~
hellofunk
Interesting that Steve Jobs had pretty much the opposite approach to group
collaboration and pressure, yet got good results from them as well. At the
expense of an often very miserable working environment.

~~~
valuearb
I’m not sure what that Jobs style was the opposite. He was the industries
leading example of taking your time to get it right. Like when he canceled the
iPad just prior to the launch decision, and told the team to take a few years
to try to make it into a phone instead.

~~~
hellofunk
The extraordinary pressure he put people under on a daily basis, especially as
deadlines approached, his biographies are full of reports of working long
weekends, sleeping in the office, having him push push push push to the
breaking point.

------
bobbiechen
I think there's a similar effect in school - I realized in college that in
many of my classes, it was not hard to get a B, but significantly more work to
get an A. So lowering my effort level and aiming directly for a B in a class
or two significantly decreased my stress levels over the semester, freed up
time for extracurriculars, etc.

------
mlok
This is very similar to the Pareto principle : 80% of the highest result is
obtained through 20% of the highest effort. To get to 100% of the highest
result you will have to deliver four times more effort.

Most of the time, 80% is good enough. Save your resources for other endeavors.

~~~
tasssko
I’m sure you mean well but you’ve liberally modified paretos principle. In
general it is a macro indicator of outcome not effort! Something like 80%
sales come from 20% of customers.

~~~
CuriouslyC
The Pareto principle is just a contextualized way of describing the dynamics
of a system with diminishing returns. If you could say anything has "low
hanging fruit" then it has diminishing returns.

------
artsyca
Totally analogous to every single self-styled agile software development
environment I've ever worked in.

People pushing themselves to the breaking point when they could get better
results by just stopping whatever they're doing and take the week off.

~~~
devchix
Last 10% of bug fixed, 90% of total effort. I'm with you. This COVID-19 thing
has changed my perspective on work, (although I'm not so sure about my
employer's.) We're split into A/B team, one week in, one week out. I really
happy, probably the first time in my working life I've achieved the nominal
"work/life balance". The office feels more productive, I'm more productive,
fewer people making ad-hoc demands on my time. The project is more focused if
you make allowance for some handoff gaps. I'm not completely destroyed on
Friday evenings, and if I am, I have a week to recover. I look forward to my
ON week Mondays, I have had a week to think about what I could/should do.
Really, if this continues with some adjustment, I think it would be the
perfect cadence.

~~~
artsyca
It's more than the 80/20 rule, it has to do with how people perceive the
notion of work. It used to be we would let the computer do the work for us and
we'd kick back and read mad magazine. Now it's the other way around and the
tools are driving us instead.

And it's because in our rush to not get corporate like those people we
despise, we've become even worse than them and our desire to fit in and gain
acceptance and recognition have caused us to go all out like the fellow on the
bike and we're just causing pile ups which would be better off if we cleared
the road.

Everyone has several people on their team who would do well to just stay home
and let the others do their thing.

------
artificialidiot
Riding a bike works like that. 2-3 minutes is a huge difference in terms of
power output required. Headwinds can sap your power. Going slightly above your
average feels like a headwind. A coach potato like me can output about a
hundred watts on a good day so if you have money to spare and want to go
faster, buy upgrades. 3 watts here, 2 watts there and you are at +10% ;)

~~~
julianlam
Wait, so you're telling me "don't buy upgrades, ride up grades" is a lie?

I am joking, of course, but I think you're completely right in that for
beginners, a small investment in upgrades (or even just a good solid bike)
pays for itself in huge boosts of performance.

Of course, after that, then buying more and better things is just bad for your
wallet ;)

~~~
duopixel
I took up biking as an adult again by biking with rental bikes in Mexico City
(government owned) and they are built like tanks for durability, not for
riding pleasure.

When I finally got on a "real" bike, I flew. I was much faster and agile than
my bike-riding friends. Because I couldn't upgrade the bike, I had to upgrade
myself, and these investments are compatible with any kind of bike (or sport,
actually).

~~~
AndrewThrowaway
It reminds me of one video (unfortunately I can't find it at the moment) where
journalist vs pro rider were racing each other with different bikes - road,
city bike, old lady's bike.

What was surprising that pro on lady's bike couldn't match layman journalist
on proper road bike. Basically all the energy spent on women's bike goes to
flexing (heating) the frame. City bike built like tank was better as at least
it was sturdy.

However it also shows that good bike is so much more important as you would
think pro would match you riding anything with two wheels.

~~~
rhn_mk1
I'm really interested in that video. I assume that the women's bike was a
steel model, since steel is supposed to be the most flexible common frame
material.

Also curious about all the people who say "no surprise considering the bike".

------
11235813213455
Reminds me of slow running:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2b2khySLE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2b2khySLE)

------
trabant00
For engine powered stuff when you relax you get better results.

Every time I try to push for lap times on the track I end up exhausted after
20 minutes with worse times, inconsistent laps, plenty of oh shit close
moments and most importantly I don't enjoy myself. Instead when I relax, focus
on riding with good technique I end up with faster times.

But of course the temptation to push is huge, especially if you can't get any
faster for longer periods.

Also interesting: I've broken my records multiple times right out of winter
after 3 months of not riding. Can't explain that.

~~~
ehnto
Same with downhill mountain biking. If you are relaxed, you are loose, and you
flow smoothly which is fast. If you push too hard, you get caught out by
dozens of little things you weren't expecting because you are in new territory
and that slows you down.

There is a time to push though, in order to move your abilities further and
get familiar with the aforementioned edges of your abilities. But race day is
not the right time.

On your last paragraph, that happens to me all the time. A week of practice
practice and can't do it, put the bike away for a week and then I can do it
first try. I think of it as a limitation on how quickly we can change and
update our muscle memory, reflexes and intuition.

~~~
abakker
Watch for the literal perfect example of this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ryQOiX05k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ryQOiX05k)

Aaron Gwin wins this World Cup Downhill race after breaking his chain in the
first 50 yards. No pedaling after that and yet he's so smooth and fast.

------
sneak
This only worked because his relaxed pace/speed was fast and built up by
MONTHS of intense training _first_.

He would not have had that time if he had gone at the relaxing pace the entire
time he spent training.

Relaxation is good, no doubt. But there is a time and place for, as they say,
"going hard in the paint". Building muscle and associated stamina is one of
those times.

This is a perfect example of why experiments require a control group to mean
anything at all. I am surprised that the intelligent Mr. Sivers would fall
into this rookie trap.

~~~
leokennis
I’m not disputing your comment, but still I agree with the gist of the
article. My four year old son recently learned to ride a bike (in The
Netherlands) so naturally he now wants to cycle everywhere himself.

So instead of putting him in his seat and cycling to the store myself (20
km/h) we now cycle side by side (10 km/h) to the store. It takes exactly 5
minutes longer single trip, and it doesn’t matter a bit.

If you really depend on achieving 100% vs. 90%, and it takes a ton of stress
to get to 100%, it might be time to change habits/goals/employer.

~~~
sneak
I’m not disputing your comment either, but in startupland the difference
between 90% and 100% is often the difference between dead and alive.

------
jcahill
Article gist: achieve a flow state / allow yourself to engage the default mode
network to reduce exertion, perceived or real, on a physical task with low
cognitive overhead (non-competitive cycling).

------
trevyn
> _A few years ago, I lived in Santa Monica, California, right on the beach.
> There’s a great bike path that goes along the ocean for seven and a half
> miles. So, fifteen miles round trip. On weekday afternoons, it’s almost
> empty. It’s perfect for going full speed._

For anyone familiar with the area, it’s clear that this article plays fast and
loose with reality. The path is narrow, and nowhere near “almost empty” except
in the middle of the night. Further, it’s so twisty that you’ll only reach
“full speed” on short sections. Your time will be dominated by cornering
technique, not power output.

~~~
Mary-Jane
Ha! I wonder if the seagull incident was a subtle way of giving away the
author is full of crap ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

------
hateful
In some of the companies I've worked for in the past, there's this weird
misconception that if you don't look stressed, then you're not taking things
seriously. "I don't think you are treating this issue with the sense of
urgency it requires." I never understood this.

------
the_greyd
I get the sense of "relax", but I'm trying to get the essence of it. Is it to
be more mindful, stop obsessing/stressing about the thing that you are doing
while still putting action in? I still struggle sometime because the only way
I think I can do something is to focus fully on it, I'm in my head tracking
all of the different perspectives, and tasks that can offshoot from the
current thing I am doing. Also another thing, is if you primarily "think" for
a living (any knowledge work) won't you get into a habit of
overanalyzing/overthinking? I've found exercise and doing something physical
as the best way to get out of your head.

~~~
danurman
The takeaway I have is basically what you said - stressing about something may
make you feel like you're working harder, but really just burns up your
emotional energy. From the end of the article: "When I notice that I'm all
stressed out about something or driving myself to exhaustion, I . . . try
dialing back my effort by 50 percent. . . . [H]alf of my effort wasn't effort
at all, but just unnecessary stress that made me _feel_ like I was doing my
best."

Stress and anxiety can be a signal that you need to take something seriously,
but if you're already taking it seriously, it's not helpful. If you can drop
it while still responding to the situation appropriately, you'll be better
off. Focus, don't obsess; progress, don't stress.

This is something I also learned in my time working technical product support
- at first, when emergencies happened with the product, I would panic and
scramble. But I eventually realized that didn't actually help and just made
things less pleasant for me and anyone interacting with me. Everything went
better if I took the emergency seriously but calmly, and just handled it
without reacting emotionally.

------
scott_w
I saw the mountain bike he was (presumably) using and figured the takeaway was
“if you want to ride fast, get a road bike”

Put another way: investment in the right tools for the job will get the
results faster than killing yourself.

~~~
cannam
The photo is credited to someone else - I imagine it was chosen for beauty
rather than truth. Earlier in the article there's a link to an actual bike,
and it is a road bike:
[https://surlybikes.com/bikes/legacy/pacer](https://surlybikes.com/bikes/legacy/pacer)

~~~
pritovido
Yeah, I read the article long ago and the picture was different. I believe it
was a seagull shadow on the beach or something like that.

------
SergeAx
So, did he or did he not stop or slow down to wash his face and mouth from
pelican's excrement?

------
purplezooey
So much of work life is _looking_ busy.

------
foobarbecue
Another interpretation: if you push yourself and keep your mouth closed, birds
can't poop into it.

~~~
anentropic
"Don't let a Pelican shit in your mouth" was definitely my takeaway from this
story too

