
Mystery over Dutch WW2 shipwrecks vanished from Java Sea bed - willvarfar
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37997640
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joezydeco
The pre-nuclear era steel would certainly be more valuable than post-war
steel.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-
background_steel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel)

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ChuckMcM
This bit surprised me: _" Illegal salvaging of the wrecks for steel, aluminium
and brass has become commonplace."_

I suppose it makes sense as these materials are easily reprocessed into a
commodity that can be sold, but still the work involved relative to the
available ships to be salvaged that are not underwater seems like it would
make this financially infeasible to me.

Then there is the whole "How the heck do you dismantle a ship underwater?"
that is a discovery television show I'd probably record and watch.

Edit: found this on youtube:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O5k5j7EpFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O5k5j7EpFQ)
which is an underwater cutting torch.

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toomuchtodo
I've helped float a 70ft steel wreck off of the Caribbean Sea floor using
second hand airbags that cost no more than a few thousand dollars (EDIT:
You'll want to spend a bit more if this isn't just for fun). Physics is
awesome, and the only cost is your time and the materials. Also, if you were
only interested in the most valuable materials on the vessel that are
accessible without entering a confined space, you'd just need a scuba rig
(very low barrier to entry).

I would definitely not attempt extensive disassembly underwater. Far more
dangerous than floating the vessel and breaking it on shore, dry dock, low
tide.

EDIT: I thought I'd add why its not safe underwater. Help yourself to some
Delta P nightmare fuel:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEtbFm_CjE0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEtbFm_CjE0)
(also confined spaces, unstable underwater structures, etc)

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schoen
Would you be willing to write up some more about your experiences with
floating the wreck? I bet people here would find it very interesting!

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dvtv75
Absolutely! It would be most interesting to hear some firsthand experiences.

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toomuchtodo
I'll make the time to write it up and come back to HN with a post.

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dvtv75
Thanks - I'm looking forward to reading it!

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harveywi
Did they investigate garbage collection as a possible explanation?

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Insanity
Did not expect this comment but it made me smile :D +1 to that!

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vermontdevil
Wouldn't an earthquake have shifted the ships elsewhere? I'm just speculating
here.

Edit: Never mind. Saw the Guardian link which provides more info. I'm
surprised there's capability to salvage that deep for large wrecks.

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dvtv75
You should check out the Wiki article on the Soviet submarine K-219.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-219](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_submarine_K-219)

Short version: after she went down, someone went down and ripped off the
nuclear missile doors, and took several of her missiles directly from the
tubes, at 6000 meters. I don't imagine too many countries had the technology
to do that.

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PerfectDlite
> ripped off the nuclear missile doors

That's probably a result of missile(s) explosion, similar to explosion which
resulted in her loss. Occam's razor, you know.

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dvtv75
That's a good point, I didn't consider that. (Obviously!)

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anc84
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/british-
second...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/16/british-second-world-
war-ships-illegal-scavenging-java-sea)

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trhway
it isn't just steel, there is also brass, etc. Anyway, having at least 2 metal
hungry countries - India and China - right near by and knowing how in 199x
some entrepreneurial souls salvaged and sold for scrap to India some
relatively modern (back then) USSR navy ships left in Africa after collapse of
the USSR i'm not at all surprised .. i mean it is just 70m depth. And we're
talking about area where ships are regularly "lost" \- at least when it comes
to registration paperwork - and where a whole large passenger plane was lost
recently. So no surprise that one more illegal salvage operation went
unnoticed or looked unremarkable if by chance there happened somebody around
to look at it at all.

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roywiggins
My favorite missing craft is the 727 cargo plane that was flown out of Angola
and never seen or heard from again.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Boeing_727-223_disappeara...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Boeing_727-223_disappearance)

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verytrivial
Satellite imagery? The salvage ships would be 10s of metres in length and
would have loitered for days. Might give some clues (but I'm not sure what you
could do with them...)

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fred_is_fred
Wouldn't a ship underwater for 70 years be covered in coral and/or rusted or
somehow otherwise modified so that it's hard to salvage?

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dba7dba
That is messed up. What happened to the remains that were surely in the wreck?

So wrong.

