
The early 2013 retina MBP 15” have faulty firmware/hardware - niggler
http://aniggler.tumblr.com/post/44586267125/the-early-2013-retina-mbp-15-have-faulty
======
ComputerGuru
The 2012 15" rMBP had considerable bugs in the SMC and UEFI that took half a
dozen firmware updates, several dozen OS X seeds, and the better part of a
year to resolve. I had a particularly nasty bug where any time I unplugged my
Mac from the charger, 5 seconds later it would go to sleep _though it was
still open and I was actively using it_. You'd have to shut the lid and re-
open it for it to wake again.

I also had the infamous ghosting issues, though my LG panel was decent enough
that I put up with it for a few months. Luckily, when I took it in to get the
entire upper clamshell replaced, there was a new part number in stock
literally the day before that had apparently resolved the problem.

I've purchased a dozen or so MacBooks since the original Unibody and countless
iPhones, iPads and other minor Apple products — it is my opinion that
engineering quality has gone down over the past two years considerably.

As for the issue TFA refers to - it does not plague my 2012 rMBP and I'm sure
Apple will, sooner or later, issue a patch to fix it. It's just a question of
whether you believe they still have their shit together or not.

(awesome song, btw!)

~~~
irq
I _still_ have the "goes to sleep 5 seconds after unplugging" bug and I've
installed all updates and am running the latest version of everything. And
have done SMC and NVRAM resets. How were you able to fix this?

~~~
rograndom
My wife's 2012 11" MBA has this same issue, it's not related to just the MBP
line.

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kalleboo
But have they fixed the problems with the previous generation? I have a couple
issues with my 2012 retina MBP. These are all corroborated by others on
Apple's support community:

* LG panel ghosting

* Graphical glitches in Safari

* Audio clicks, pops and stutters when using Intel graphics

* Power manager issues: Sometimes it'll drop to sleep when I unplug the magsafe, even though the laptop is in use. Sometimes it has trouble waking from regular ("closed lid") sleep - maybe every other week I have to go as far as holding down the power button to force a power off to get it back.

I haven't been to an Apple store because I can't be without my machine for a
week or however long it'll take to fix, and it sounds from the discussions
forum that many of these problems have no fix, or it's random if you'll get a
new part that works right or not.

~~~
ComputerGuru
See my top-level comment.

* Graphics issues are fixed in 10.8.3 (still in beta). It appears that the drivers have been rewritten from scratch, this was the worst beta seed series I can recall for any OS X release, ever, with new seeds days apart, seeds that were completely broken, kernel and graphics driver instabilities, etc. The latest seed is much improved and should address this issue.

* LG panel ghosting: I had my clamshell replaced a few months ago. There was a new part number, it has been officially "fixed."

* I have hisses and pops when listening via headphones, but not over the speakers

* Power management: _Finally_ fixed with latest firmware updates + 10.8.3 + reset NVRAM/PRAM _and_ SMC. Firmware updates plus NVRAM [0] and SMC [1] reset will likely fix it for you.

0: <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1379>

1: <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964>

~~~
driverdan
Apple's DACs have hissed for a long time. My 2010 MBP had the same problem.
They just use shitty DACs.

~~~
kalleboo
The problem I'm having with the retina isn't just hissy/poor quality. The
audio literally cuts out or lags for a fraction of a second, causing very
audible crackling. First time it happened I thought I had ripped a CD
incorrectly, it sounds like a CD with scratches in it. And it disappears when
you disable the intel integrated graphics and switch to the nVidia.

~~~
muraiki
Interesting... I have a problem with a Mid 2011 iMac where the audio does the
same thing. It's an i7 so I was pretty certain that I wasn't pegging the CPU;
I chalked it up to a problem with VLC but perhaps there's more to it than
that.

------
irollboozers
I just spent 1 hour today at the Apple store and talking to Apple care getting
my brand new (2 days old) 15 Retina MBP replaced. It kernel panicked on me and
bricked itself. The only sign of life is a slight hum of a fan when I try to
power it on.

It's the first Apple product I've bought but I can't shake the feeling that
this frequency of bad hardware is becoming normal.

~~~
coldtea
> _It's the first Apple product I've bought but I can't shake the feeling that
> this frequency of bad hardware is becoming normal._

Probably because you haven't experienced the overheating G4 Cubes, the liquid
cooling dripping G5 Pros, the frequently crapping out on the motherboards
iBook G3, the wheezing MacBook Pros, and tons of similar stuff.

There's even a saying that goes as far back as 2002: NEVER buy Apple 1gen
product (like the Retina was) --or at least be cautions. Wait till the put the
second generation in the market.

So nothing to do with "declining quality" as such. All new models have some
ironing out of issues to do, and all models will have some problematic runs.
Same thing in the PC world, be assured, just that noone buys 3 million of the
exact same PC model, whereas in the Mac world they do.

~~~
nwh
> overheating G4 Cubes

I'm not sure that anybody ever had that issue. Mine has been in constant use
since it's purchase, and it's never once had overheating issues, even in 40c+
ambient temperatures. Even if it did, there's a dandy little slot in the
bottom for adding a fan if you choose.

~~~
saurik
[http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/294758/10-gadgets-we-
co...](http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow/story/294758/10-gadgets-we-could-ve-
lived-without/5)

> It had some major overheating issues that produced miniscule cracks in its
> porcelain body. Another major flaw was that it didn't have a fan, so users
> had to shutdown every so often and let the vent breathe. Apple stopped
> selling the Cube within a year of its release.

~~~
nwh
I don't believe the "shutting down" bit. My stock Cube runs constantly,
shuffling backups, processing logs and performing health checks. It's uptime
is around 4 months now, and was almost 2 years before I moved to a new
apartment.

------
metajack
Why worry about this when the LG panels have horrible ghosting? I had to have
mine replaced, and luckily got a Samsung panel (this was on the original
Retina 15" hardware, though apparently this happens elsewhere too).

I've had lots of problems with Apple hardware over the years, most of it dealt
with very well by Apple, but the panel ghosting was by far the worst.

I'd open Gmail, read email for 2 minutes, then flip to my terminals on another
desktop and could still read my email. Yuck.

------
meaty
This doesn't surprise me at all.

I've had so much Apple kit pack in on me it's unreal. It got to the point I
dumped it all and switched to a 5 year old Lenovo unit which has been
flawless.

While they look pretty, I'm not sure the engineering is sound or you're
getting good value for money.

~~~
jfb
My anecdote masquerading as evidence: I have not had problems since the
original two generations of Intel laptops. I think the engineering is great!

------
josteink
Soooo... Apple hardware being rushed and having quality issues. What else is
new exactly?

This is probably what happens when you spend more money on lawsuits than
research.

~~~
krichman
That's exactly what is new, though. A couple of years ago they had much higher
quality computers (and the RAM wasn't glued in). Every time I see a post on
here about Apple I mention this: I think they are pushing to get into the
market of people that don't know how to use computers at the expense of their
customers that do.

I used to buy Apple and recommend it. But they fucked up, they are
increasingly trying to prevent developers from creating apps for their OS's
without getting their approval first. Fuck that, that is anti-competitive and
anti-freedom. I now recommend Android to people, but I am looking forward to
Ubuntu phone (shopping lens and all :) ) and FirefoxOS as hopefully better
alternatives.

------
wavesounds
I have a 2012 model with the 256 hd - I just downloaded and played the song
and no fans came on.

Did have a dead pixel show up in my display but apple fixed that for free.
Also it does get too hot for lap usage sometimes.

Other than that this is the best computer I've ever used. Pretty much every
other computer I've use now seems slow and pixelated.

~~~
ComputerGuru
Re: heat. My problem is that when the fans of my 2012 rMBP are whirring, _the
heat emanates from the keyboard_ which is.... odd. It's not something I'm used
to, and irks me to no end.

~~~
kingnothing
That's more or less happened with every Macbook Pro I've used since 2009.

------
marvwhere
i got my mbp 15 (ordered online) begin of february - it worked for 5 days then
it was done.

i already noticed that i had big fan issues, and wondered about it, because
co-worker has the same model and has no issues with the fans, and normally
they only start when he is gaming, what is ok.

so i had some problems, but said "okey"... on day 5 i went afk from my mbp to
play a round of fifa13, when i came back, i had a black screen and only saw my
mouse courser, reboot showed flickering apple-logo, dir-icon, etc.

i tried everything to get my system back (after 5 days had not started with
time machine) - no chance at all, the sdd was done...

my luck: in the next city we have an apple store, so i made an appointment for
the next morning went there, they tested again the ssd, because i guess the
normal case for them is: THE CUSTOMER IS STUPID, OTHERWISE HE WOULD NOT PAY
THAT MUCH MONEY FOR THAT CRAPPY HARDWARE...

after the "genius guy" noticed that the ssd was crashed, he was like "ok i
guess on the retina the ssd is not changeable anymore...let me talk to my boss
what we can do for you, so that you get your mbp in 1-2 days, because its not
ok then it will take 2 weeks on a 5 day old mbp until u get it back"

15 mins later he came back, and was like "ok it is possible to change the ssd,
and we have one here..."

he changed it, reinstalled osx and i payed 0,00 - left the building...

since then i never heard anything back from my fans (only when i'm playing
www.heroesofnewearth.com =D )

p.s.: it is my first mbp, and i really pissed already, all my co-workers have
apple products too, and everybody is getting pissed and more pissed from day
to day...apple hardware is getting crappy...

------
TigrouMeow
Discussion on the Apple Forum (more useful than the original link):
[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4735947?start=210&t...](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4735947?start=210&tstart=0)

------
gambiting
My friend got incredibly excited about the Retina MacBook and ordered one on
the day of release. He has already been through seven of them. Yes - seven.
And it wasn't even the screen each time - loose hinge, broken keyboard, SSD
died.....you would have thought that in a machine for so much money they
would've sorted this out.

------
voltagex_
Can someone explain to me why that file causes the issue to occur?

------
brunorsini
I can confirm this as well. I have a mid-2012 MPB retina with a 500.28 GB
APPLS SSD SM512E (vs. the author's SD512E) and the fan has recently acquired a
life of its own. I can understand it going berserk when the CPU is busy, but
this happens even while its utilization is below 10%.

 _Very_ frustrating. Paid $3k for this machine and use it mainly for Pro Audio
recording, so the noise really hurts... Wanted to buy a Mac Pro instead but,
alas, last year's update was a joke. It's getting really hard to be a customer
of Apple's high end machines, even for someone who likes their stuff and is
gladly willing to pay.

------
pinaceae
just to add a counterpoint to this classic everything sucks on the internet
thread:

no issues at all with a 13" 2012 MBAir. best machine I've ever owned, had
Lenovos in the past. Last Thinkpad bluescreened sometimes when connecting a
USB headset. The Air? Nothing has brought it out of step so far, which for a
former Windows user, is simply amazing.

~~~
YPetrov
Same here, tried reproducing the issue without any success. Also, I can
express the same feelings towards my 13" 2012 MBA - best machine I've ever
had.

~~~
buzzkillr2
Third'd. Mine has been dead nuts reliable; no problems, no regret spending the
most I have ever spent on a laptop.

------
achivetta
If you are going to post online about a problem with an Apple product, I
personally believe that it's a good idea to also file a bug
(<http://bugreporter.apple.com>) and include a bug number in your post. Doubly
so if you submit it to HN.

It is possible that there are people who work at Apple that read HN and if you
post a bug number one of those people might then be able to open the bug.

------
datboitom
When I first bought the MBP 15" retina, my screen started ghosting. I got it
replaced 3 times. Even though its an issue that was resolved with an update
the staff at the Apple store told me they will not consider it to be a problem
unless a certain amount of reports of it have been filed, so if you have the
problem, report it, get your laptop sent in because they need laptops that
produce this problem in order to fix it.

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melchebo
Maybe your MacBook is fan of dubstep ;)

I'd say the audio is leaking into the fan controller, and your dubstep just
happens to contain the pattern that's sent to the controller to signal spin
up. the controller probably uses some simple serial bus protocol, maybe i2c.

Edit: For people who are more adept at peeping at the song's spectrum: on the
Apple forum people report the fan speedup to occur at 0:28, 1:47, 2:05/2:10,
2:30, and 3:50

------
TigrouMeow
I was supposed to buy one this week. Now I'm scared...

~~~
rkuykendall-com
You're scared that one model has a bug where you play a specific song in a
specific media player, the fans spin more than they should? and it can be
fixed with a firmware update?

You scare easily.

~~~
stock_toaster
I have been considering an upgrade, but have been more worried about getting
an LG screen with awful ghosting.

~~~
covalence
I had an LG with really bad retention - I took it to an Apple store where the
rep saw the issue. Two days later I picked it up and haven't had a problem
since. It was very easy to get it replaced and is great for coding for me.

~~~
stock_toaster
Thanks for the data point!

I have a 2009 mbp (matte screen! ;_;), and the retina seems like the best
display to upgrade to from the matte for 'staring at text for hours'.

------
j45
After 4 Apple Macbooks since 07: never buy the first gen of any Apple
hardware.

------
irq
I'm running iTunes 11.0.2 and it won't even let me add this file to my
library. It won't attempt to play via Quick Look from Finder, either.

------
sgloutnikov
2013 MBP 15" 256GB (APPLE SSD SD256E Media). Downloaded the song and right
around the 1:47 mark the fans started going crazy :\

This also happened to me after I purchased the MBP and started it for the
first time, about an hour in. Out of nowhere it just started spinning the fans
to the max. Has been over a month without it happening, but this song made it
do the same every time.

~~~
Oyinko2
I made a video of the problem: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly0Sp7lMKJU>

------
ryanwhitney
I've been using the retina MBP 15" heavily since its release. I noticed the
fan for the first time last week when I was booted into Windows.

There are other issues with the machine—notably the screen flicker and
ghosting that others have had issues with—but I wouldn't worry about this.

------
DannoHung
Weird. Never had hardware problems with Macs like those being reported here.
Worst I ever got was hard drives dying and a ram module going bad.

My sister had a bad MBP from about 5 years ago that just kept having all sorts
of problems though. Bad batteries, like 3 replacement mobos, bad hard dive,
etc.

I think hardware issues might just be a batch based crapshoot.

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benatkin
The last link is apparently the source of your information but it is not
referenced as such. Why not?

