
I don't program in my spare time. Does that make me a bad developer? - wrrice
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/48698/i-dont-program-in-my-spare-time-does-that-make-me-a-bad-developer
======
reedF211
A good programmer should wake up at 6 am in the morning get a solid 2.5hrs of
coding done by 8:30 am, at 8:30 leave for work, work till 6 (it goes without
saying that the lunchbreak must be spent trying to learn the Haskell or if you
are feeling lazy answering questions on stackoverflow). Commute from 6 to 6:30
(it's a bonus if you listen to a technical podcast during this time and no
stuff like TWIT does not count, perhaps audio lectures from the Advanced
Algorithms course on MIT OCW). 6:30 to 7:00 time for supper and excellent time
to catchup on r/programming and hackernews. 7-8:30pm is the time for
relaxation by doing some recreational mathematics, doing problems from project
Euler and that proof from The Art of Computer Programming excercises which you
have been itching to get a go at! 8:30pm to 1 am code contribute to that open-
source project, write patches for the Linux kernal and continue working on
your startup.

Anyone who does less programming that what is mentioned above cannot call
himself a "good programmer", I would have serious reservations in calling that
person even a mediocre programmer.

~~~
k7d
I guess not everybody caught the irony

~~~
jemfinch
I catch the irony, but I'm not confident that it really contributes to the
discussion here. Look at the comment thread it's produced: practically nothing
of any consequence or interest.

~~~
Calamitous
Yes. Good programmers must also be humorless drones that post disapprovingly
when others are clearly enjoying themselves.

~~~
jemfinch
Humor is funny. That post was a sarcastic expression of an obvious truth.
Neither the tone nor the obviousness was what I come to HN for.

------
raganwald
Correlation does not equal causation. Asking whether not programming in your
spare time makes you a bad developer is the wrong question. The right question
is, _What is it about certain/many good developers that leads them to program
in their spare time?_

Pursue that something and you may end up programming in your spare time. Or
starting a company such that your side project is your job. Or finding
something really exciting to do at your current job. Or whatever. In words
much older than our civilization: "Do not follow in the footsteps of the
Sages. _Seek what they sought._ "

~~~
kenjackson
_The right question is, What is it about certain/many good developers that
leads them to program in their spare time?_

This is a good question, but it does lead me to a thought... why does it seem
like most side projects are done by people for whom the predominance of their
work appears to be side projects? Let me explain.

Most of the programmers who produce large products, don't do much in the way
of side projects. Carmack seems to be heads down on Rage. I don't see a
Carmack GitHub project. Nothing from Tim Sweeney either. I don't see anything
from the devs that did GTA or Halo or RDR or the latest Mario game.

What about David Cutler? Linus -- he did Git, I guess a side project(?) --
other stuff? Any of the iOS architects have GitHub side projects? WebOS
architects?

It seems like we have two classes of devs. Those that ship large products.
Whether its iOS or Grand Theft Auto 5. And devs that ship little projects.
Small startups, little tools here and there. The overlap between the two seems
rather small.

~~~
raganwald
_why does it seem like most side projects are done by people for whom the
predominance of their work appears to be side projects?_

It's easy to see why most side projects are done by people for whom the
predominance of their work _appears_ to be side projects: This is a trivial
consequence of the fact that the vast majority of the software developed on
this planet is "dark matter." It's developed inside companies, and even if you
know I work for IBM on DB2, it's hard to see from the outside whether I'm a
coding machine by day or whether I write emails from 8-5 and code side
projects from 5-8.

In the universe of software projects, we're mostly talking about side projects
that are visible things like Github repositories, and mostly talking about day
gigs that are invisible. If we want to drop the word "appears" from your first
statement, we need to include side projects that aren't on Github (like
startups being developed on nights and week-ends while the authors go to work
"for the man" M-F 9-5).

We then need to compare all of the side projects to all of the code these
people write during their day gigs, whether it's highly visible stuff like
Linux or "invisible" like the internals of an ATM locator for an online bank.

If we don't include all of the side projects and we don't include all of the
day gigs, it is very easy for our skewed sample to have many examples where
the authors _appear_ to do most of their work on their side projects.

Please don't assume from this that I disagree with where you seem to be taking
the conversation. If we see that things are not always as they seem, we also
must accept the idea that even if people with side projects _appear_ to be
good programmers, it might be that the high-profile examples we find on HN or
who blog are not representative of programmers as a whole. It is very
dangerous to draw conclusions about the correlation between a side project and
talent based on an incomplete sample. I think we agree on this here and in
another thread elsewhere.

As they say... The plural of anecdote is not "data."

~~~
kenjackson
_If we don't include all of the side projects and we don't include all of the
day gigs, it is very easy for our skewed sample to have many examples where
the authors appear to do most of their work on their side projects._

Absolutely -- I think that's where I was trying to go, but not as eloquently.
If you look at the thread, I define "side project" in, what I consider, an odd
way. Basically something that is on GitHub, because that has become what so
many mean by side project.

In a roundabout way I was trying to say that people learn and grow in ways
that are less visible. And while others may question your programming skills
as a result -- you shouldn't.

------
DanI-S
Unless you have a super-awesome job (and lots of people do), programming in
your own time may be the only way to discover and play with new things. If you
work backend at a C# shop but would like to start writing Ruby, you're
unlikely to get the opportunity to learn unless you do it in side projects.

Practically, you may be totally happy in your current niche, but you're at
higher risk from technological obsolescence unless you diversify.

This is as much an argument for '20% time' as it is for programming at home.

~~~
weaksauce
What about the auxiliary scripts that need to be written for some tasks to
automate some task that is ancillary to your product? If you are writing a
ruby script for those tasks that are useful but could be done by brute force
methods I don't see a problem with that.

Automation of deployment or some menial task, sanitizing test data, gleaning
statistics from a csv dump of the database, cron jobs, etc... I'm sure you
could come up with more.

~~~
phillmv
>What about the auxiliary scripts that need to be written for some tasks to
automate some task that is ancillary to your product? If you are writing a
ruby script for those tasks that are useful but could be done by brute force
methods I don't see a problem with that.

Pfft.

Any semi conservative workplace, anywhere: "What? No, who the hell would
maintain it? Stick to <tools of choice>."

Although I like to think I'm a bit cooler and down with the times and the hip
words the kids use would probably say something like, "So help me god, if I
have to learn Erlang at three in the morning to fix some bullshit you cobbled
together I will fucking end you".

~~~
weaksauce
I didn't mean anything that other people use. Just scripts that help you out;
those scripts are for you and you alone. They help you do you job more
effectively but do not require you to install them on other machines. It
depends on the size of the company for where the level of latitude stops
though.

------
impendia
I am a research mathematician. I work hard, but I also spend a lot of time
pursuing other interests such as yoga, swing dancing, and improv comedy. This
takes away from the time I do math.

Does this make me less of a mathematician? Of course it does. This is a
tautology. I am a mathematician to the extent which I devote my time and
energy to learning and doing math.

Sometimes I feel guilty about this, but on reflection, this is a sacrifice I
am willing to make. We only get one shot at life, and we have to balance all
of the activities we find valuable.

~~~
danssig
>Does this make me less of a mathematician? Of course it does.

I disagree. Burn out is a real thing and once it happens your capacity is
drastically reduced. I suspect you've probably found the maximum output you're
capable of producing long term.

~~~
impendia
It's possible you're right. In my case I rather doubt it -- especially
considering the late nights I've been out -- but at the very least I agree
that this kind of thing is often true.

------
trustfundbaby
"Not programming in your spare time does not make you a bad developer,
however, programming in your spare time can make you a better developer."

\-------------

Just about sums it all up

~~~
hackinthebochs
Totally, and thats pretty much _all_ that can be said. If you program more,
you're likely going to be better than had you not (by how much is another
question).

Using this as a way to compare different people, on the other hand, is
foolish. Just spending time coding is going to do little to improve your skill
assuming you're past the stage of just starting out. It's how much you're
challenging yourself, and how you handle that challenge that makes a
difference.

------
mirkules
I mentioned to someone that in my spare time I made iPhone games. They asked,
"as a hobby or you trying to make money?" I replied that sure, I'd like to
make a few bucks. He said to me "If you let your hobby become your job, what
will you do for a hobby then?"

At that point, I realized that making a distinction between a hobby and a
career path is a good move, and you have to know what you are pursuing. For
example, I tinker with arduino in my spare time, as a hobby, and I don't
intend to sell or make money off anything I make with arduino. There is
nothing wrong in learning, say, Ruby in your spare time because you know that
it will come in handy and that you could make money with it. But that's not a
hobby.

Doing iPhone development (among other things) is my full-time job, and I am
loving it -- mobile app dev was never my hobby, but a career choice, and I'm
ok with that because I am happy at the place I work.

~~~
dasil003
I get it, you should be free to enjoy your hobby without money clouding your
thinking. Totally agree with that.

On the other hand, I think a hobby that could be something more is totally
legit. For instance, I am learning Haskell as a hobby. I'm not really sold on
it as a great language for business (yet), but I realize that if I get good
enough at it I may be able to shift my career in that direction.

To answer the original question you were asked: If that happens I'll get a new
hobby.

~~~
mirkules
I think the real point of "what are you going to do for a hobby" isn't the
fact that you can get a new hobby. The point is, you like your hobby (you find
it relaxing and stimulating at the same time). When you make it a job, it
ruins that experience. So back on point, if you're programming as a hobby --
great! But if you're constantly looking at the screen just to get ahead...
that can't be healthy.

~~~
dasil003
Right, but if you extend that logic then you're almost forced to do something
you _don't_ like professionally.

------
unshift
when i'm working a 9-5 job, the last thing i want to do is go home and program
more. i'd rather throw the ball around with the dog or rock out on my guitar.

in my experience the people who say "you have to have side projects to be a
good developer" are either people who do program in their spare time, or
people who want to hire the type of programmers who voluntarily chain
themselves to their desk.

this is one myth i'd really like to see die. good accountants don't balance
checkbooks in their spare time, do they? lawyers don't hold mock trials,
doctors don't do surgery on their friends as side projects, and construction
workers don't pour concrete for kicks on the weekend.

~~~
fourk
Let's say you and I started writing code at the same age or time, and you code
only 9-5, whereas I code an average of 15 hours a week more than that in my
spare time. Two years later, I've gotten as much experience (or at least put
in as many hours) as would take you >3 years to gather. Five years after we
started, I'm 3 years your senior in terms of experience.

It's not that you won't be a good developer if you don't work on side
projects; it's that as compared to anyone your own age who codes in their
spare time, you're going to have less experience. You'll probably be way
better at the guitar, or taking care of your dog, or whatever else you're
doing instead of coding, but they'll be a better programmer.

~~~
jasonlotito
Actually, that's not true. Their is a limit to how much each day you can
"practice." I believe the number is 4 hours. Putting in more time doesn't mean
you are learning more. It simply means you are putting in more time.

------
MattGrommes
When I look at resumes and talk to candidates, seeing that they don't at least
read about programming outside isn't an automatic no-go but as natch says,
it's a red flag. I've worked with people who have no interest in programming,
they just do it because it's what they do and they need a paycheck. Not
programming or showing an interest outside of work is an indicator of this
kind of person to me. Of course it's not 100% but it leads me to ask other
questions to make sure they will want to learn. That said, there are plenty of
corporate places that are perfectly fine with this kind of person, I just
don't work at those places anymore.

------
ohyes
Not programming outside of work is an indicator rather than a cause of 'bad
programmer'.

Programming outside of work indicates that you like programming. If you are
bad at programming you will not like programming, as it will be frustrating.

It also indicates that you are reasonably smart, probably get bored watching
television, and are at least a little intellectually curious. If you are
specifically programming something 'fun' to unwind after a long day of work,
you are clearly comfortable programming, and you have interesting (enough)
ideas about what to program.(It also indicates that there are no decent pubs
within walking distance).

If you are programming in your free hours because some guy on stack overflow
said 'this is what you must do to be the greatest programmer,' you are
probably an idiot. No amount of outside work programming will help you.

~~~
sudont
Doing _anything_ outside of work other than going to the bar signifies
intellectual curiousness and a willingness to expand.

Why do you think there are so many designers in bands? Hell, Feynman took up
Samba.

------
code_duck
I could see someone who only programs for work or school becoming a competent
developer, and a good employee.

So, do you have to program for joy to not be a bad developer? No. But if you
don't love what you're doing, it's unlikely you'll ever be _great_. People who
are the best at anything reached that point through a combination of natural
talent and vast amounts of work. Chris Broderick (
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkpZ645ztl0> ) wasn't born this way... when
everyone else was hanging out with high school buddies or going to college, he
had a guitar in his hands 4-8 hours a day. Loving what you do is more powerful
than desiring the rewards. If you love what you do, learning to do it better
can feel effortless.

On the other hand, having a passion for a topic to the extent that it consumes
your work _and_ personal time isn't always a good thing. When you do it in
lieu of things friends, a romantic life, spending time with your children or
simply resting your mind, you may regret that later on.

------
modoc
No, but it probably keeps you from being a great developer.

I've worked with a large number of people at a large number of companies, and
the difference between the solid "B" developers and the amazing "A" developers
is that the amazing developers are passionate about technology and coding, and
always have a side project of some sort going on. They are excited to learn
new languages/frameworks/ideas and bring that added knowledge to their day job
with great effect.

------
lparry
Back in first year uni, when I felt like everything I was supposed to be
learning was a bit of a walk in the park I'd program in my free time a whole
lot. later in uni when I was swamped with engineering maths and compulsory
management subjects I didnt program in my spare time at all (I suck at analog
maths and ROTE learning so it sapped my enthusiasm to do anything in general).

when I finished uni and got my first job, I was back in the position of being
given boring menial tasks and I programmed in my spare time for fun again. I
left that job for something a lot more interesting and was quickly given
enough responsibility that at the end of the day I didnt feel like programming
so I didnt. After a few years there I'm on top of things at work again and I'm
back to coding for fun in my spare time again.

I dont think that not coding in your spare time is a sign that you're a bad
developer; it's more a sign that you're getting enough mental stimulation
elsewhere. That said, I think if you've never coded for fun it's possibly a
sign you're in the wrong career. You should love what you do enough that you'd
do it even if you weren't being paid to do it; not necessarily the exact same
work, but at least the same domain. No point spending 1/3rd of your waking
life doing something you dont enjoy

------
16s
I'll preface this by saying that this is my personal opinion.

Github (and the like) are becoming prerequisites. You should have a portfolio
of _personal_ code you've done that you can freely share. Stuff you are proud
of and passionate about (or not so proud of, but are deeply interested in) and
stuff you want to learn more about.

Would you hire a wedding photographer without seeing personal samples and
talking to them about their interests and opinions on how to photograph _your_
wedding? You'll interview a slew of photographers who just do it to make a
buck (and that comes through very clear), but you'll also find a few guys (and
gals) who do it with a passion.

------
seanalltogether
It doesn't mean you are a bad developer, it means you are a satisfied
developer. Some people however have so many things rattling around their heads
that _not_ exploring those ideas makes them unsatisfied.

------
wallywax
Programming in your spare time is much less attractive when your employer
claims to own all the code you write.

~~~
modoc
You should _never_ sign an employment agreement that includes that. Never.
I've successfully gotten employment contract/non-competes/IP contracts, etc...
changed at every employer I've worked at who tried to pull that, from small
shops to Fortune 500.

------
keyle
I used to code the night away. Then be unable to sleep too excited about what
I was doing.

Now I have a fiancee and we live an exciting new city (Brisbane, AU).

I've just outgrown it. I think both ways are normal. However, the dude that
doesn't program during the day and yet paid to do so IS WRONG... Whoop, that
would be me. Back to work!

------
Tsagadai
If you enjoy programming do some development in your spare time. Find a
project that interests you. Programming is a tool, master it by all means if
that is what you want. However, don't lose grasp of the fact that there are
numerous other pursuits you can take up. Learn a language, build a house,
learn chemistry, send a rocket into orbit, make an erotic film, excel in
martial arts, whatever it is that you want to do, do it. Have a diverse range
of experiences and regret nothing in life. Don't just be a developer.

------
msort
To continue coding in your spare time, you must have a real exciting project
to work on: to learn a new technology, or to build something you really love.
Without that passion, you won't have the extra energy to do that and it won't
necessary to be beneficial.

So try follow your passion. If your passion is to write a novel, play guitar,
do that. If your passion is to build a new web app, do that. Don't code just
for the sake of coding. You cannot lie to yourself.

------
protomyth
I wasn't really interested if someone programmed in their spare time. I was
more interested if they had written a program, at some point in their career,
to solve a non-work / non-school problem or scratch a personal itch. I just
wanted to know they had used their skills without outside direction. I always
wanted people that saw their skills as useful outside the office / classroom.

------
natch
As an outsider (not being you), I would consider it a red flag, nothing more.
Additional evidence would be needed to draw any conclusions.

------
themal
Most developers I know - in real life - don't program in their spare time,
never mind going to conferences or evening meet ups. If you work as a
developer and your hobby is developing then there's a good chance that you'll
burn out.

That's not to say that it is bad for people who do it, just try to expand your
hobbies to something outside of technology.

~~~
orangecat
_If you work as a developer and your hobby is developing then there's a good
chance that you'll burn out._

People are allowed to have more than one hobby. And I'd think that if your
paid job is writing and maintaining boring internal enterprise apps, hacking
on fun projects could prevent you from getting burned out.

~~~
jim_h
I occasionally try new recipes, jog, travel, exercise and other none computer
related activities are way to prevent from getting burned out.

------
JonoW
No of course it doesn't neccessarily mean that. Like most things in life; it
depends. If you feel that your day job is fulfilling your interest and
happiness as a developer, I'd say you don't need to work on side-projects,
you're probably learning plenty during the day.

But if your work gives you restricted oppurtunities to try new technology, or
burdens you with outdated tech and boring work, working on a side-project can
reignite your enthusiasm in programming, which can never be a bad thing for
your career.

Also, theres nothing to say you need to spend huge amounts of time on a side-
project, maybe a few hours a month just to try a few new things. Sure, you
won't become an expert in those things, but you'll get a feeling of what it's
about.

And choose something fun to inspire you, nothing is more mind-numbing that
coming home to work on a side-project that actually bores the hell out of you.

------
andrewvc
It is very hard to push your skills forward without side projects. Do
accountants balance ledgers in their spare time? No. But good ones do read up
on their craft and push their knowledge forward off the clock. It just so
happens that pushing your knowledge of code forward usually involves coding.

------
argimenes
I don't think it does necessarily, although it might be a symptom of lack of
confidence or dissatisfaction with your work programming. I think having a
broad range of interests - reading, playing music, drawing, socialising,
sports - makes you a complete human being but programming for yourself, at
home, should probably also be something that gives you joy. Rather than asking
whether you're a 'bad developer' maybe start from the other end: 'What is
preventing me from hacking at home? What spoils it?'

The other thing I recommend is to do the kind of programming that YOU enjoy
and NOT the kind of programming that you think is necessarily 'important' or
'difficult'. All you need is that ONE opening, that ONE gap into accessing the
joy of programming.

------
Fluxx
Sure there are programmers that don't program in their spare time that are
great programmers, but I think the general theme is that doing side projects
in your spare time is generally a strong signal you're adventurous, self-
reliant, eager to learn, interested in broadening your skills and have a
strong desire to get better -- all very important things in anyone hoping to
get better at your craft.

When I'm interviewing people, side projects (especially successful ones) are
_strong_ signals of a candidates value as a good programmer. This doesn't mean
I won't want to hire someone without side projects, but candidates having them
90% of the time are very strong.

~~~
Someone
"Adventurous" and "Self-reliant" are not necessarily good traits for a
programmer. It depends on the field one programs in.

For example, the programmers that
<http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/06/writestuff.html> talks about are
neither (at least not when on the job). They do have a strong desire to get
better, though.

------
ankimal
As long as you re learning, be it newer technologies, languages, frameworks,
patterns or whatever it is that interests you most during work time, spare
time, any time, you would always be a better developer today than you were
yesterday.

------
Vitaly
Short answer - yes.

But it's more complicated.

You are not supposed to do programmng all day long, but ifbyou don't feel a
need to expand beyond what you do at work its one of the following:

1) you work is so great and diversified that you simply get all the
programming you could ever need. For most people it's not the case 2) you are
already extremely great. I think Linus probably doesn't need to learn yet
enother language/framework (although I wouldn't be surprised if he does
sometimes). For most people it's also probably not the case 3) you just don't
like it that much

For most people that don't program at home (3) is probably the reason.

------
younata
For my internship this summer, I actually write code! I've found that I do
little to no non-work programming during the week. However, I do spend a lot
of time during the weekend programming.

------
shaydoc
I find that the less time you spend programming, more time solutioning the
better developer you become. reading and learning how other folk are
solutioning is where its at for me. anyone can program, not everyone can
design a good solution for a problem.

If you enjoy programming as a job, then in your spare time you allow for tech,
take the time to read a couple of pages here and there. If you don't read or
get exposed to other talented programmers/architects then yeah, you are
destined to be a bad developer!

------
macournoyer
I've been coding in my spare time in and out since I got my first computer. I
didn't do it because I wanted to be a good programmer, but because I love
creating stuff and programming is the easiest way I know to create stuff. I'm
not happy if I'm not creating something.

Also, a few months ago I quit my job and I'm now making a living teaching
people what I've learned during my "spare-time". I now have more free time
than I could ever imagine, and the notion of spare-time is starting to
disapear.

------
karolist
Programming is my hobby. I work on a startup product in my spare time, one
question I'm faced with - is it possible to balance corporate work, startup
idea and have time for side (hobby) projects? If startup product is not my
main task when out of work, is it a sign that the thing will fail?

I'd like to learn 3d, develop simple games, learn new languages and algorithms
while still working on the startup product and maintain my corp job. Do you
think it's possible?

~~~
wccrawford
You're asking too many different questions at once.

It's possible to have 'successful' side projects, if you define success as
simply not failing.

It's not possible to have a runaway success like Minecraft while you have a
day job, though. It takes too much of your time to keep it going.

As for learning, you can learn anything you want. Just go to it.

------
notatoad
do you code for fun? as long as you do, it doesn't matter whether you do it at
work or at home. if you can experiment with new technologies and learn new
things at work, your skills are going to improve and it's probably healthier
to spend your free time doing something other than coding.

if your work is drudgery where you are maintaining old stuff and it isn't
helping you keep your skill set current, then you should be programming in
your free time as well.

------
hippich
Nope. But coding in spare time make you better developer. And.. If you do not
like coding - it's wrong career.. But who knows, code monkeys useful sometimes
too..

------
lhnz
I think the idea that you must program in your spare time and contribute to
open-source has a sociocultural benefit. It might be more 'pure' to devote all
of your time to your fellow developers and improving your art.

Yet the quality of your work has nothing to do with the time you spend on it.
Quality over quantity, as they say.

Either way, there is certainly some benefit to be had in being passionate
about your work and in keeping on the bleeding edge of technology.

------
zwieback
Has anyone else noticed that doing totally unrelated activities outside of
work often inspires programming solutions? Practicing a musical instrument or
other creative activities seem particularly useful to put my brain into a
state where solutions or at least new ideas come more freely. This seems more
pronounced now that I'm in my forties and I couldn't code the night away even
if I tried.

------
dtreacy
No. Just means you write more code. If you spend that time learning different
languages and design patterns, it can make you a better developer.

------
sjs
It comes down to caring enough to do it right. You have to love it and be a
pedant who pays stringent attention to detail. You can be smart and motivated
but unless you really want to know why and how it all works and fits together
it's hard to excel.

That type of person will always be reading and writing code and solving
problems. Spare time and work time all blurs if you are focused on a problem.

------
astrofinch
It occurred to me the other day that writing a lot of code might actually be a
bad thing if it caused one to become bored with programming.

------
biafra
For me it is the other way round. When I program in my spare time, I do it
because I need a certain piece of software and no one else (I know of) is
building it. I even switched jobs to become better at a specific platform
because I was frustrated how slow I am programming for it only in my spare
time.

------
jonthepirate
Is there a site where programmers can post their side projects for the rest of
us to look through? I am always working on a side-project... usually something
built on Facebook platform. I'd love to see what you other hackers are working
on in your spare time.

------
error
Yes, you are a very bad programmer! just follow reedF211 advice to improve
yourself, and be prepared to loose everyone around you.

good programmers do not have friends :)

and by the way do not forget to meditate on sarcasm, always make the other
feel bad for being alive.

------
matan_a
Interesting post! I posted one not long ago saying the opposite. The reactions
were staggering and felt the need to update my post to clarify my point.

Regarding your post though, i think that no one is assuming extremes - you can
easily manage a few hours a month to do some mad science experiments. You
might even surprise yourself with the outcome or renew your passion that made
you take up development in the first place.

You also don't always get the full perspective in your day job - even if you
work at an amazing place.

Development isn't a music skill. It isn't about repeating a piece over and
over to train your mind, motor skills, and dexterity until you can reproduce
it perfectly.

Every day people are pouring tons of new and interesting ideas into this
discipline and more often than not, they have excellent ideas which can be
shared and studied to your benefit. Take advantage of it.

~~~
rpwilcox
The software craftsmanship / hacker dojo people would argue your point that
about needing to repeat over and over again.

Example: I probably need to sit down and actually _practice_ , over and over
again, certain Regex concepts, because I need them at hand immediately....
which is what habit does.

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known
I don't stitch in my spare time. Does that make me a bad tailor?

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georgieporgie
Something I've noticed over the years is that my productivity and ability
peaks don't correlate with time spent programming, but rather with time spent
reading other people's code.

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johnx123
Yes, you're a bad programmer as you do it for earning.

Good programmer code if for satisfaction, contributes to open source, /.,
HN....

~~~
johnx123
Down voting?? I think, it's for poor comments--not for disagreements.

~~~
mcantor
"Poor comment" is very subjective; I think that people are downvoting you not
only because they disagree, but because of the _type_ of argument you made:
you imposed a value judgment on a certain kind of decision-making without
really backing it up. You just said, "People who do X are 'wrong' and people
who do Y are 'right'." There was no logical basis or evidence for what you
wrote, and on HN, I feel like people value the rationale behind opinions as
much--if not more--than the opinions themselves.

------
keeptrying
I'm sure that 98% of programmers who are of indian origin dont code in their
spare time. They do it because its a good living and nothing else.

And a lot of them are good at what they do.

~~~
BasDirks
You're not sure.

Could you elaborate?

~~~
keeptrying
Most of my friends are indians who are programmers - none of them code outside
of work. And I mean none. I'm indian - I code outside of work as I'm trying to
start a company.

Indians look at programming as a great way to make good money. And a way to
move up to management after that. Thats about it.

~~~
johnx123
Reminds me [http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/2011/04/mbas-vs-
hackers.htm...](http://rajeshanbiah.blogspot.com/2011/04/mbas-vs-hackers.html)

