
Rethinking Easter Island’s Historic “Collapse” - Hooke
https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/easter-island-collapse/
======
koboll
The first European ships noted in their logs that the island was devoid of
trees, and that this was unusual, as other large islands of Polynesia were
not. This is supported by fossil evidence. The disappearance of trees would
severely limit the inhabitants' ability to find food, both because forests
support a more diverse ecosystem and because lumber is necessary to build
fishing boats. It's unlikely that the island's trees would vanish for any
reason apart from human deforestation -- in fact, there is evidence that a
vast majority of them were cut down by humans:
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030544030...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440309003732?via%3Dihub)

It's certainly likely that European contact hastened the islanders' decline
through diseases and other evils of colonization, but the theory here is built
on... the fact that stone platforms were built after 1600? Okay. That doesn't
really explain how the islanders cutting down all the forests on the island
prior to European contact could have no effect on its population.

~~~
dougmany
Trees are nice but not having trees does not automatically mean collapse. I
found this paper had many more arguments then the article.

[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255726745_Ecologica...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/255726745_Ecological_Catastrophe_and_Collapse_The_Myth_of_'Ecocide'_on_Rapa_Nui_Easter_Island)

~~~
phkahler
>> Trees are nice but not having trees does not automatically mean collapse.

No but the prior existence of trees means they were used and ran out.

------
TheGallopedHigh
There is great new podcast that speaks about the collapse of civilizations,
and the author does one about Easter Island

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7j08gxUcBgc](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7j08gxUcBgc)

I’ve even mentioned it in another thread because the production quality is
great. Enjoy!

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totetsu
The post European contact Rapa Nui writing system is one of the neater
additions to unicode
[http://www.unicode.org/L2/L1999/rongorongo.pdf](http://www.unicode.org/L2/L1999/rongorongo.pdf)

~~~
flobosg
Whether rongorongo was created pre- or post-European contact is still a matter
of debate. Unfortunately very little is known about it and the glyphs remain
undeciphered, but I agree that the Unicode proposal is a good thing.

------
melenaos
I am always wonder how would these civilizations would be today if they left
to grow alone, without the European affection and love. Like we couldn't even
have access to them until we have satellite internet, human rights, European
committee, global journalism, things that could hold the 'explorers' from
committing civilization crimes and for completely vanish exotic cultures.

What it would be like to have a conversation with a native american about
their land and their forest, how far would Aztecs would reach, what relegion
does the Rapa Nui people really had, and so many wonderful things we could get
from people of Africa and all over the world.

Even then, their ground would be taken, their villages would be burned down
and nobody would know. Is it possible to leave such a big continent to people
without guns? Is it possible to leave them live the natural life they choose
to live, without forcing them to settle in a house like our ancestors did
12.000 year before? And because of that my back hurts, my body is stiff, I
have anxiety for virtual things and my connection with the nature is broken.

But no more cultures left to modernize in Earth, let's find another planet to
help.

~~~
sbierwagen
>I am always wonder how would these civilizations would be today if they left
to grow alone,

There are a few uncontacted peoples left. Notoriously, the Sentinelese kill
anyone who try to land on their island.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontacted_peoples)

Left alone, they appear to muddle along like any other hunter-gatherer tribe
would: starving often, dying young, making no "progress" as we would call it.
The native state of humanity without technology is certainly _different_ from
our life, I hesitate to call it "better".

~~~
melenaos
I have read about this tribe, they kill every foreigner, this is why they keep
their closed community like that. I wouldn't compare them to the native tribes
of America, if they did the same they might have not been brutally murdered
themselves.

------
banku_brougham
There are different theories of the cause of the civilizational collapse of
the Rapanui. It is agreed that the approximate time was near, within a century
or so, of first contact with western explorers.

So knowing nothing else, perhaps their poor stewardship resulted in collapse a
couple hundred years before Europeans arrived, or perhaps their fate after
first contact followed a pathway down that we know all too well.

------
cheesecracker
How do they define collapse? The criterion in the article seems to be
"building platforms occasionally" vs "not building platforms anymore"?

~~~
NietTim
In order to build platforms occasionally you need structure in your society so
people can make time to do that, that structure has collapsed

~~~
cheesecracker
I am not entirely convinced. By that definition, all Western civilizations
have collapsed because we don't build platforms anymore.

~~~
yyyk
You're looking at the inverse logic rather than the right one. A => B, does
not imply (not A) => (not B).

Building platforms is a strong argument there's some organized society (since
any such action would require coordination), but the opposite does not have to
apply (not having platforms does not mean there isn't a society).

~~~
cheesecracker
But the logic of the article seems to be the Easter Island inhabitants stopped
building platforms, so their civilization must have collapsed. I criticize
exactly the faulty logic you describe.

~~~
yyyk
My reading is a bit different. IMHO, the article is not making the assumption
you believe it does.

Article's logic:

* Article assumes common knowledge of a collapse, and doesn't bother proving that.

* So when did the collapse happen?

* Well, the inhabitants were building statues during and right after contact.

* So probably afterwards.

That 'afterwards' _could_ be right after inhabitants stopped building
platforms, but it doesn't have to be for the article's logic to hold! If this
is not the case (as you claim), than this just pushes the collapse date
_forwards_ from the point they stopped building ( _after_ contact). It can't
push the date backwards (before contact), because they were building stuff
previously (article's actual argument).

So if the assumption you mentioned doesn't hold, the article's basic argument
- collapse _after_ contact, not as a result of ecological catastrophe -
becomes _more_ likely.

------
markdown
> But the island, called Rapa Nui by its Indigenous people

Then why have you titled it Easter Island?

I'm inclined to agree with the idea that the destruction of the once-thriving
island was caused by the arrival of Europeans, as it was elsewhere in the
world... mainly by disease and enslavement.

Blackbirding was in full swing in the Pacific:

> Almost 150 men, women and children paddle out to the ship. Some swim. On
> board they are invited to share a feast (or, some say, view the wares) below
> deck. But as soon as they descend the stairs, the trapdoors slam shut and
> _the ship sails away with about half the population of ‘Ata locked in its
> hold_.

\- [https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-
history/blackbir...](https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/currently-
history/blackbirding-new-zealands-shameful-role-in-the-pacific-islands-slave-
trade)

~~~
JetSetWilly
"Greece" is called "Hellas" by Greeks themselves - and nobody cares. A name
doesn't have to be the same as that used by the natives, as the point of the
name is not to be accurate to what natives call it, but to provide a commonly
understood reference.

In English names for places and things are quite often different to what it is
called in other languages - that's fine. There's no central authority that
mandates what syllables should be used to refer to things.

~~~
082349872349872
No central authority, but there is a central reference, Wikipedia, which
allows one to quickly translate between names for places and things, so the
need for a canonical name is much less than in the days when one might need to
consult a reference book or have various names in one's readily-accessible
memory.

İstanbul (not Κωνσταντινούπολη): "Why did Constantinople get the works?"

