
Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars - BerislavLopac
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/03/from-2020-volvo-will-limit-all-its-new-cars-to-112mph/
======
chasingthewind
There is no circumstances under which a maximum speed of 112 would bother me.
I drive a Honda Fit. I don't think I have ever driven it over 85 miles per
hour (137km/hr). I'm not comfortable driving faster than that. What makes me
mad is that my speedometer goes up to 140mph! Why?! The only answer I've ever
seen that makes sense is that it's a marketing tool, but who honestly buys a
Honda Fit and thinks to themselves "if this thing can't do 140 then forget
it!" The downside is that it's actually very hard for me to tell exactly how
fast I'm going because in general I'm driving less than 60mph in my daily
commute and yet that range is only 43% of my analog speedometer. I honestly
wish it only went up to 100mph, then I'd be using 60% of the resolution of the
dial. Instead I have no idea whether I'm going 35 or 40 unless I really stare
at the thing :(

~~~
tracker1
I drive a 392 challenger scat pack shaker... I don't think I've ever had it
over 100, though the max is 201. I'm not sure I'd be bothered by a regulator
for the top speed.

That said, I don't think speeding is even close to the number 1 killer these
days... Cell phones seem to be the leading cause of accidents these days.
Maybe they should detect motion over 5mph and turn off display of messaging
apps, only bluetooth voice interactions allowed.

~~~
cpursley
> I drive a 392 challenger scat pack shaker... I don't think I've ever had it
> over 100

I don't see the point of a vehicle like this unless you drag race it on a
regular basis. It has limited utility, is larger than an Abrams tank, guzzles
fuel like it's 1998 and couldn't make it around a slalom cone course even with
a skilled driver. It's a make a lot of noise and go really fast in a straight
line car. That's what it does (nothing wrong with that).

~~~
piptastic
it's fun to drive

entertainment has value to some people

~~~
cpursley
I get it (I'm an amateur race car driver). What I'm saying is, OP is not using
the car to it's full potential.

~~~
noxToken
Most people don't use things to their full potential. We have cars with larger
engines than needed, CPUs and memory banks that rarely stay above 90%, food
that gets tossed out daily, laundry washed and dried at half capacity and
below, and so on. Many developed nations would look differently if we used
everything to their full potential potential.

------
ken
In the past 2 years, Volvo discontinued all engines with more than 4 cylinders
[1], announced that all future cars would be HEV or EV [2], then declared that
the current ICEs would not be developed further.

Other car companies make a few innovative models, but (apart from Tesla) I
don't know any other companies which have made sweeping statements about every
model they'll ever make. I think Volvo has the strongest brand today, in the
sense that I know what they stand for. They've come a long way from "boxy but
good".

[1]: [https://www.seattletimes.com/business/volvo-xc60-moves-to-
al...](https://www.seattletimes.com/business/volvo-xc60-moves-to-
all-4-cylinder-engines/) [2]:
[https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15340510/volvo-
electrifyi...](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15340510/volvo-electrifying-
entire-lineup-in-2019-but-gas-isnt-dead/) [3]:
[https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a18725989/driving-on-e-
cur...](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a18725989/driving-on-e-current-
volvo-engines-will-be-the-companys-last/)

------
imartin2k
German here. I once drove an Audi A8 from Hanover to Berlin (while working for
a car rental company). It was pretty much 250kph (155 mph) all the way (except
where there was a speed limit of course). Definitely an insane experience. My
hands were extremely sweaty. Yet I couldn't stop driving that fast. In that
type of car, you don't really notice it anyway. But you DO notice it when
suddenly another car is getting into your lane, seemingly far ahead, but
within a few seconds you're so close that you have to hit the breaks really
hard.

It's fun and all and a few years ago I would have hated that type of
"paternalism" by Volvo. But now, with self-driving cars around the corner and
my own more mature understanding of human fallibility, I would argue that it
makes little sense that humans do drive at speeds higher than around what
Volvo is aiming at.

~~~
rad_gruchalski
You driven like that once, some people drive like that daily. Usually it’s not
them causing accidents. Whatever, anyone can be fast in a straight line.

~~~
tobib
> Usually it’s not them causing accidents.

I hear that all the time, do you have a source?

~~~
rad_gruchalski
In the current climate regarding the speed limit in Germany? Good luck. It’s
from experience, you know, seeing it from the perspective of the fast driver.
I know it’s another slogan but driving slower makes one more suspectible to
distraction.

------
throwawayst808
Just out of curiosity, am I the only one that's tried the top speed of every
car I've owned? German cars have limiters at 130 or 155mph, and the first time
I hit the 130 limiter was a surprise (suddenly lost acceleration, thought I
had an engine problem, then realized I just hit the limiter).

Surely I'm not the only one? Intended out of real curiosity

~~~
mrguyorama
Many places in the USA, passing a cop while hitting the limiter would result
in at least a night in jail, instant driver's license loss, and lots and lots
of money. The vast majority of Americans cannot afford even a basic speeding
ticket, let alone that kind of expense. So no, you aren't the only one, but
certainly experiencing that kind of risk is a massively luxurious thing that
the vast majority of people cannot afford.

Also not everyone has access to long stretches of highway with little traffic
to do this in a way that doesn't endanger other people

~~~
benj111
"experiencing that kind of risk is a massively luxurious thing that the vast
majority of people cannot afford"

That seems a strange way to characterise breaking the law.

~~~
mrguyorama
If you have enough money or resources there are plenty of laws you can afford
to break.

~~~
benj111
You wouldn't say that Musk being fined $20 million by the SEC were luxurious
though.

------
meddlin
Any enthusiast wishing to operate their vehicle closer to the engineering
limits will most likely flash the ECU anyway (or simply not purchase the
vehicle if you lock them out via DRM). On top of that, I drive a 2010 Hyundai
Genesis Coupe (3.8L); the car can reach 140mph or 150mph rather easily, can be
found for under $10k.

However, with most vehicles on the road, the tires are more susceptible to
failure than the powertrain is to not delivering the speed. (i.e. my all-
season, mid-grade tires are only rated to safely operate up to about 130mph).
I would expect this from Volvo, and for the people who care it's more of a
moot point.

------
SketchySeaBeast
Is there any particular reasoning as to that value? If we assume major highway
limits of 70 mph and add an excessive 20-30 mph for passing, that's still a
ton of extra lethal kinetic energy.

edit: Apparently even the Autobahn has a recommended speed of 80 mph (I'm
aware you can go faster, but then why have a limit at all?)

~~~
LyndsySimon
As I mentioned in another comment, tires with an "S" speed rating go to 112
MPH, while tires with an "H" rating go to 130 MPH. I'm guessing they either
downgraded the factory tires or were concerned about lawsuits from owners who
installed aftermarket "S" rated tires.

~~~
mbell
Lower speed rating also usually means lighter construction and a 'harder'
compound, both of which reduce cost and improve fuel milage.

~~~
sliken
Actually it's the opposite I believe, at least for the same family of tires.

Sure there are high efficiency tires with harder compounds and are more
efficient.

But if you get the sporty tire from whatever brand the higher speed ratings
generally have the less flexible/harder material. The limiting factor being
the heat generated from the flexing builds up. So generally a 150 mph rated
tire gets less traction, costs more, and is worse when it's cold than a 112
mph rated tire.

So even on a fairly sporty car and tire you are best off getting the lowest
rated tire that will accommodate your max speed.

~~~
mbell
Conceptually that may be true, but it's next to impossible to get performance
tires in speed ratings under W and within any particular model it often varies
only by 1, rarely 2, speed ratings.

------
henvic
If I were automaker I'd consider allowing bursts above the maximum speed limit
for a few seconds.

I'm not a fan of limiting (besides for warranty, electronics reasons) and
prefer to educate rather than restrict. However, if taking this approach I
believe you should consider that some people might drive in the limit and they
deserve to be in power of their vehicles regardless.

Imagine if you drive near this software-limited speed and suddenly need to
speed up a little bit more to avoid a dangerous situation. You simply can't.
This may dangerous specially if you don't have in your mind that your speed is
limited by software.

Just allow breaking out of this limit for, say, 5s so your drivers can get out
of a dangerous situation instead... And if they try to abuse the system,
disappoint them by blocking acceleration.

~~~
jacquesm
In all of my 32 years of driving and over many many miles I've had exactly
_one_ situation where acceleration helped me avoid an accident and it wasn't
anywhere near the local speed limit. On the way to visiting another HN user I
was about to turn left and looking into the low sun waiting for a vehicle that
was barely visible to pass. Then I moved across the lane and _another_ vehicle
appeared quite close behind the previous one. Because of staring into the sun
for too long waiting for the first one I had developed a really nice blind
spot for the second car to hide in. It wasn't visible to me until it was
almost on top of me. That's the only time that a large engine ever made a
difference (and I'd never really floored it all the way in city traffic before
but that was impressive). All the other times it was the brakes that saved the
day.

~~~
henvic
Regarding sudden acceleration (and it's a good time to remember acceleration
isn't speed) avoiding accidents...

I live in Brazil. There is a tax supposed to cause road accidents here. If
your powertrain is > 1.0, the tax you pay when buying cars has a sudden
increase. Therefore, many if not most people buy 1.0 cars here (). This is
valid even for some that are not consider lower end here (though would be
anywhere else in the civilized world).

It's actually the most common type of crash on highways here:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3907522/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3907522/)

Anyways, one great reason of accidents here is frontal collisions. People
either don't take into account that they are driving snails, not cars, and try
to take over on the road but fail to do so at an adequate distance.

The thing is if you are at, say, 80km/h it gets really hard to increase your
speed 5 or 10km/h in short amount of time. I believe that people driving
powerful cars don't think about this often, and all it takes is an idiot to
tailgate you while you are trying to take over to make shit happens. Another
unfortunate thing is that you might find yourself tailgating the vehicle
upfront before taking over it to reduce the needed distance.

* highways here are usually one lane each way most times. Sometimes two. I love when I go to southern California for work, and there are 12 lanes with almost no traffic (yes, traffic here is worse than there).

[https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/01.pdf](https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/01.pdf)

~~~
anticensor
> If your powertrain is > 1.0, the tax you pay when buying cars has a sudden
> increase.

What do you mean? Engine displacement>1L? Transmission overdrive? Something
else?

~~~
henvic
Engine displacement > 1L (in fact, > 999cm³).

Not sure if these values are still valid, but if they are not they should be
even worse nowadays.

Made in Brazil: < 1L: 30.6% 1L to 2L - 34.6 or 36.6% (gas + ethanol) > 2L -
41.6% or 48.6% (gas + ethanol)

Imports: < 1L: 60,6% 1L to 2L - 64,6% or 66,6% (gas + ethanol) > 2L - 71,6% or
78,6% (gas + ethanol)

Also, immediate availability is lower and most cars are manual with no cruise
control :(

And obviously you'd already be paying a little bit more for a more powerful
engine, so the increase is actually at least 10%, and most lower income people
just get stuck with 1.0 for their whole lives...

[https://www.noticiasautomotivas.com.br/automovel-recolhe-
de-...](https://www.noticiasautomotivas.com.br/automovel-recolhe-
de-31-a-79-do-preco-em-impostos-no-brasil/)

------
georgebarnett
I see a lot of commentary on break quality and stopping distance.

Those things matter, but not as much as reflex response time, which is mostly
a fixed constant for most people.

Going faster means you travel further before even getting to the brakes.

------
rmason
We already have systems that can read speed signs. What I'd like to see is
image recognition systems that recognize a school bus and when it is stopped.

Couple of times a year I see drivers blowing by a school bus as kids are
getting off and trying to cross the street right in front of them. Be nice if
the car decided for the driver that it was stopping.

------
gerbilly
Off topic, but neat speedometer trick.

Preconditions:

* You have an analog speedometer which is in both miles and km/h. [1]

* You are on a road trip on a highway, driving at or near 100km/h.

In Canada on the 400 class highways, both are often true.[2]

The trick is simple. It must be, I figured it our when I was a kid looking of
my father's shoulder while he drove.

Notice how 100km/h nearly aligns with 60 mph on the speedometer? You can use
the mph gauge as the approximate number of minutes required to travel a given
distance in km.

Say you just saw a sign saying a rest stop was in 42 km.

To estimate the time to your rest stop, just line up 42 km/h with the
corresponding number on the mph scale, which in this case gives about 27 min.

[1] [http://www.storiesfromschoolaz.org/wp-
content/uploads/2013/0...](http://www.storiesfromschoolaz.org/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/read-for-speed-0-to-120.jpg)

[2] I drive at 110 because the trucks drive at the same speed, so you don't
have to pass as often.

------
serf
Bummer for track folks.

It's easy to get a new set of rubber that has a speed rating higher than what
the factory provided; It's a lot more difficult for a layman to flash out a
speed limit.

It's a shame that less and less companies are producing products that take
into account that perhaps the potential buyer might actually know better.

~~~
gknight
In Japan, the Nissan GTR unlocks the speed limiter when it detects it at a
race track: [https://gizmodo.com/nissan-gt-r-detects-when-car-is-on-a-
rac...](https://gizmodo.com/nissan-gt-r-detects-when-car-is-on-a-race-track-
disabl-337096)

------
Shorel
I would love if all cars had a cruise speed mode where I could say, I want the
top speed to be 60, and it never goes faster.

The difference here is that I would choose this speed, instead of it being set
only by the manufacturer.

It is also OK if the car had both limits, a manufacturer max and a lower max
speed configurable by the driver.

~~~
yeahboats
Isn't this what cruise control is? Or do you want this to be a hidden limit,
say for one's kids' cars?

~~~
jandrese
Cruise control won't hit the brakes if you are going downhill and exceed your
set speed. I think he's looking for the latter. Setting it to 60 is probably
too low though unless the OP only ever drives in the city. I'm hoping he's not
one of those people who immediately shove their way over to the far left lane
of the interstate and never move until they suddenly jump across three lanes
of traffic at the last second to take their exit.

~~~
vel0city
Recent cars I've owned with computer-controlled manual (or "manumatic")
transmissions (Ford SelectShift/PowerShift, Hyundai Shiftronic, etc.) will
change gears and do engine braking to keep it in the right speed. Even in my
ancient Honda Accord, throttle control is usually enough to keep it within a
few MPH of my chosen speed once going 60mph+ on most highways I tend to drive
on.

------
jbob2000
I've always wondered why the government sets speed limits but then doesn't
enforce them on manufacturers. You can solve 99% of speed "crime" by making it
illegal to sell a car that can break the speed limit.

~~~
dethswatch
You've never had a track day...

This whole page is filled with "Doesn't apply to me, so go for it", which
seems like a really bad rationale to apply to hundreds of millions of people,
potentially.

~~~
andrepd
I seriously doubt "hundreds of millions of people" regularly go for a lap in
the Nordschleife.

~~~
mhh__
Especially given the mechanical wear, motor racing (Even karting) is a rich
man's game

~~~
driverdan
You don't have to be rich to drive on a track. Champ Car (formerly Chump) is
racing with very inexpensive vehicles. I did a track day with a sub US$5000
car that was still faster than many others. People take rental cars to track
days for a total weekend cost of under $500. Drag racing costs next to nothing
for a normal car.

------
arethuza
This made me wonder what the top speed of my current car is (a very modest
Škoda Yeti) and it is 111mph :-)

------
userulluipeste
Although 180 km/h looks reasonable, I'm not convinced this kind of solutions
is the way to go. Speed limiters are not new and were sold on the idea that
are improving the efficiency of the engine, burning the fuel better. To do the
same thing in regard to safety however, is a bit humiliating or at least
patronizing. People already are required to jump through non-trivial hoops in
order to legally get behind the driving wheel and all that is to make sure
they fully understand the implications of driving a high speed vehicle and
accept the implied responsibility. We already took care of setting the proper
speed limits through road regulations on the society level, and we do further
limit those speeds by choice on the individual level on each driving session.
This artificial limitation from the automakers is more akin to fearmongering
based marketing stunt, something not derived from rational discernment but
from tackling one's lizard brain fears.

~~~
rhombocombus
I don't think it's fearmongering, especially when you consider that children
are allowed to drive (at least here in the US, and with minimal training).
This isn't about being a nanny state or keeping folks from driving fast cars
(I imagine there will always be cars you can take on the track), it's about
keeping everyone on the roads safer. Not one single time in my highway driving
life have I encountered a NEED to drive that fast in any traffic maneuver.
People die in high speed crashes all the time, I don't think anything about
this decision is fearmongering, it's about the health and safety of those
around you.

~~~
Mirioron
Every decision that restricts people is justified with "it's about the health
and safety of those around you". It's not a convincing argument when it's used
for everything.

Volvo does it so they can use cheaper tires without being liable.

~~~
wsy
If it indeed increases the health and safety of those around you, why is this
not a valid argument?

------
SurrealSoul
Pretty cool, by establishing a top speed standard they could run reliable
crash tests for the absolute worst case that the car could experience. Looking
forward to the future of "No matter how you drive this car, it won't kill you"

~~~
ken
People die every day in car crashes at far slower speeds than that. There's no
way to guarantee a car crash won't kill you, even at normal highway speeds.

~~~
mshook
Plus if speed was really THE main factor, highways would be terribly
dangerous. Or they're usually the safest when it comes to accident statistics.

So speed is not the main issue but it's a nice tool when you're a politician
or you want to communicate.

For the Autobahn, wiki says:

In 2014, autobahns carried 31% of motorized road traffic while accounting for
11% of Germany's traffic deaths. The autobahn fatality rate of 1.6 deaths per
billion travel-kilometres compared favorably with the 4.6 rate on urban
streets and 6.5 rate on rural roads.

------
teilo
Even when I was on the Autobahn (in a Volvo S6 no less) my max speed was 108
mph, and most of the time I settled in at 100 mph. But there will definitely
be some people pissed off at this, as I saw people clearly going closer to 120
on occasion.

~~~
itslennysfault
I cleared 150 mph as a teen 'cause the speedometer went that high and part of
being in a new car was seeing if you could actually pin the speedometer.

However, that was a very stupid choice, and I'm glad no one got hurt. Outside
of a track there is no valid reason to go over 100 mph.

~~~
0db532a0
I did 150mph on the Autobahn last year on my motorbike on a straight stretch
with three lanes. I thought I’d play it safe and stay in the outside lane in
case someone from the inside lane decided to overtake another. Two cars
undertook me, albeit very considerately, on the inside lane at considerably
higher speeds. At that point I felt defeated and decided to take things a bit
easier for the rest of my trip.

------
newnewpdro
This should be matched with a lowered purchase price, because they're almost
certainly going to be equipping cheaper tires w/a correspondingly low speed
rating.

~~~
jandrese
This is Volvo we are talking about. They weren't equipping their station
wagons with Pirelli tires.

------
youeseh
A fine example of segmentation. Most Volvo customers don't buy Volvos because
they're fast cars. They buy them because they are safe cars.

~~~
grkvlt
Well, there is their Polestar [0] performance division, which suggests there
_is_ such a market...?

0\. [https://www.volvocars.com/uk/cars/new-
models/s60/variants/po...](https://www.volvocars.com/uk/cars/new-
models/s60/variants/polestar)

~~~
youeseh
There are quite a few M's compared to regular BMWs. How many Polestars does
Volvo sell compared to their regular models?

------
myrandomcomment
So my current car tops out at 163MPH (not a Tesla). Being in the Bay Area (a
large parking lot is how I would describe the freeways) the chance of every
going that fast is zero. It is possible (no admission of guilt) that I may
have hit 120MPH once or twice very late at night on the I280. That being said,
this limit bugs my libertarian views. The issue is of course all the people in
a car that can hit a stupid level of speed (100MPH+), that lack the correct
breaks, tires, handling for that stupid level of speed. Drive down the 17. It
is a wreakfest of people that drive too fast on winding road without
understanding that just because your engine can push does not mean the rest of
the important car parts function at that level. The engine tech level in the
standard consumer car has hit a possible speed level without effort that is
not matched by the other parts of the vehicle. Pair that with someone that
thinks, well it can go that fast so it must be okay...

~~~
henvic
This limit shouldn't bug you at all. If it's voluntary (you buy the car
without coercion), there is nothing wrong about it.

disclosure: I'm a hard-core libertarian myself.

------
danmg
Great. Now just make an automatic transmission that's not a pile of junk.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
In a couple years there will be no need for transmissions anymore...

~~~
itslennysfault
...or steering wheels.

~~~
danmg
or people

------
snvzz
Suddenly can't accelerate because of stupid speed limit -> Death.

Due to this fear, many a person (including myself) will simply never buy one
such car.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
If one is in a situation on a typical road where accelerating beyond 112MPH is
going to cause death, I'm not completely sure that limiting to 112 is the real
issue.

~~~
shric
Being chased by a psychopathic Volvo driver springs to mind

------
frankherbet201w
So many movies are going to don't make sense anymore but it's about time we
are anyway going to come to a world where we need to find amusement in
something else

------
rurban
I was a Formula 1 test driver virtually, building the simulators and test
drives. Limiting it to 112 would limit it to gear 1 of 6.

That's laughable. You could eliminate the gearbox at all then on better,
extremely expensive cars.

------
PostOnce
I don't want Volvo, or a computer, or a mechanical system to kill my family
because it didn't account for an edge case.

Everyone here is talking about normal highway use, but, as everyone knows, not
all situations are normal. Bad things happen.

My imagination is limited, but for example: Fires can spread quickly and
surround you (e.g. a valley with one road out), a tsunami can happen with only
a couple of minutes warning, some hospital trips can't wait for an ambulance,
sometimes people try to kill you (jealous ex? opposing political group or
religion in some countries, who knows what the future holds).

So, die in a fire I guess, it's for your own safety.

~~~
georgebarnett
I find this argument rediculous.

We should not allow a huge negative behaviour every single day, just on the
off chance that there’s a possibility it would restrict us in a very unusual
event.

Hundreds of people should die because maybe we can save a few?

Makes no sense.

~~~
PostOnce
How many auto fatalities are a result of people driving 150? Almost none, I'd
wager. So then is my argument still ridiculous?

Freedom has value. Just because we can force some people to do some things
more safely in some cases doesn't mean we should always do it. Otherwise, we
can just outlaw cars entirely and force everyone to only go places where rails
take them at government-approved speeds.

~~~
georgebarnett
Fortunately, somebody has actually studied this and has found that yes, speed
does matter:

"In Rheinland-Pfalz, a 130 km speed limit was also introduced on a 167km
section of the A61 in 1991 and has been retained since then. This measure was
combined with a ban on overtaking for heavy good vehicles. The impact of these
two measures was a 30% reduction in fatal and severe injury accidents
(comparing one year after and one year before their introduction – Rheinland-
Pfalz Ministry of Transport)."

[https://etsc.eu/wp-
content/uploads/Speed_Fact_Sheet_1.pdf](https://etsc.eu/wp-
content/uploads/Speed_Fact_Sheet_1.pdf)

~~~
PostOnce
1] I'm not opposed to speed limits, I'm opposed to the car enforcing them even
when there is an exceptional case it's unaware of.

2] You can drive super dangerous without driving super fast

3] Almost no one drives super fast

4] The same pdf also says the death rate is exactly the same on roads without
speed limits as those with speed limits... but I assume we're going to ignore
that part and other contradictory studies to drive your point home?

i.e. 67% of roads have no permanent limit, 67% of deaths occur there...

And then you'll say "yes but that doesn't take into account the traffic volume
on those stretches of road"

and I'll point to something else, and it'll get old, and you don't appear
interested in considering other viewpoints anyway.

