
Remove Richard Stallman: Appendix A - MilnerRoute
https://medium.com/@selamie/remove-richard-stallman-appendix-a-a7e41e784f88
======
cinnamonheart
This attack on Richard Stallman feels much like a witch hunt to me; he's being
vilified, and what he's actually said and done is being buried under a bunch
of mass hysteria. It's sad to see; I have a lot of respect for him and it
pains me to see people calling for his head doing what he's always done in
questioning the status quo. He just made the mistake of questioning the wrong
thing, not of any grand crime, as he seems to be accused of; it seems like
he'll be misquoted and raged at until he disappears, and I think in doing so,
the world is being done a disservice.

------
lanevorockz
These activists are just power hungry evil people. The amount of work that
Stallman has put into helping the world and now a spoiled young brat wants to
take it all away because he does not agree 100% with her in everything?

~~~
dogma1138
If the allegations that he kept a shag matters in his office are true, i don't
think you can actually find a defensible position for this.

I don't like the outrage culture and twitter witchuhnts either but this seems
to be more than digging up a bad joke someone said 10 years ago.

~~~
cinnamonheart
RMS made his office his residence for many years, and slept in it. The
mattress made sense as it was his home. It was not there for untoward reasons
as people seem to be implying.

~~~
qzx_pierri
Exactly this. People don’t understand the amount of dedication RMS put into
his work. I’m sick of this shit. I’m so fed up.

------
MisterTea
These stories are so opposite of horrifying that I have to honestly question
the authors cognition and intent.

> Alumni from as far back as the 1980’s reached out to me and told horrifying
> stories, such as:

1) An emacs joke.

2) RMS had a mattress and grody friends in his office.

3) RMS is awful at asking women out.

~~~
microtherion
> RMS is awful at asking women out.

Picture yourself as a freshman in a university where the vast majority of
senior academics are gay and keep asking you out on dates. You can always say
no, but don’t you think you would perceive this as a rather hostile
environment?

~~~
MisterTea
Hostile? Hostile was the time I was setting up entertainment equipment in an
LGBTQ center in Manhattan and had a rather large fellow harass me. First he
was polite and chatted with me, I could tell he was interested in me. He kept
asking me if I was attending the party or if I wanted to stay. I was polite,
told him I was simply the setup crew and rebuffed. Then out of nowhere he
pushes a table against me pinning me to a wall as he jokingly said "now you
have no choice but to stay until I take you home tonight" That was physical
and sexual harassment which was fucking gross and disgusting. I told him to
fuck off and I reported that whack job to the staff. They were just like "oh.
thats so-and-so for ya." That is a hostile work environment.

What RMS did in that instance was certainly gross and awkward but in no way
hostile. People lack perspective.

------
dvfjsdhgfv
This is plain disgusting. I've known RMS for years and he clearly doesn't
respect social norms in many aspects. It's not a secret, there are also many
stories about it on the Internet.

But to paint him as a pedophile and a molester - that's really crossing a
line. I disagree with RMS on many topics, but the mass hysteria going on right
now is mind boggling.

~~~
notus
[https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-
aug.html#05%20Jun...](https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-
aug.html#05%20June%202006%20%28Dutch%20paedophiles%20form%20political%20party%29)

[https://www.stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-
feb.html#04_Janua...](https://www.stallman.org/archives/2012-nov-
feb.html#04_January_2013_%28Pedophilia%29)

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
Yeah, but what is mind-boggling is not so much his comments but the content of
the Guardian article itself:

> A Dutch study published in 1987 found that a sample of boys in paedophilic
> relationships felt positively about them. And a major if still controversial
> 1998-2000 meta-study suggests – as J Michael Bailey of Northwestern
> University, Chicago, says – that such relationships, entered into
> voluntarily, are "nearly uncorrelated with undesirable outcomes".

> Most people find that idea impossible. But writing last year in the peer-
> reviewed Archives of Sexual Behaviour, Bailey said that while he also found
> the notion "disturbing", he was forced to recognise that "persuasive
> evidence for the harmfulness of paedophilic relationships does not yet
> exist".

I find even thinking about these things disgusting, but if we want to be fair,
he just repeated what the article says. If the SWJs feel outraged (why now?
his page has been public for decades), they should attack the scientists who
presented the findings of these studies.

------
sunjester
"What I did not know when I wrote this post (again, being a software-ignorant
mechanical engineer) was how it would touch a nerve with women in the free
software community and computer science in general."

so if it had not affected women this author wouldn't have given a shit?
typical. Everything in this article is just a hatred for not only a great
software protagonist but probably a hatred for men everywhere that voice their
views out loud.

"In this section, I acknowledge that I do not have as many photos, emails, or
written records as evidence. I do, however, have witnesses."

Then the author proceeds to spew out so-called quotes with nobody being held
responsible for any of the quotes. And a further bit down, she quotes someones
"female" opinion about sexism (with obviously no male voice in it).

"3\. Going Forward, be proactive instead of reactive.", seems she didn't think
of any of this until she wrote the sexist hate-filled article about Richard
Stallman.

referencing the pound-me-too movement shows just how anti-male this woman is.
god help whatever man she gets into her trap of faux love.

or perhaps she just hates how "white" Stallman is?

~~~
mrala
> so if it had not affected women this author wouldn't have given a shit?
> typical.

The author does not seem to make this assertion, and what you have quoted
definitely does not support your claim.

> Then the author proceeds to spew out so-called quotes with nobody being held
> responsible for any of the quotes.

It's understandable why those people may want to remain anonymous. Are you
trying to imply the quotes are faked?

> referencing the pound-me-too movement shows just how anti-male this woman
> is.

How does it show that?

> or perhaps she just hates how "white" Stallman is?

This is quite a reach.

------
phnk
Interesting to see the top comments in this thread.

* "This attack on Richard Stallman feels much like a witch hunt to me."

The "attack" in question is an appendix to a blog post. The original one said,
in substance, "I do not know much about the accused, and he certainly didn't
say what many press accounts accuse him of, but his recent words deserve
punishment." The appendix blog post says, in brief, "oh my, this is all goes
way back."

Does that sound like _The Crucible_ or "she turned me into a newt?" Although
the rest of the HN comment is more honest, calling what RMS said "questioning
the status quo [about the victim status of, well, child rape victims.]"

* "These activists are just power hungry evil people."

Reacting to a blog post written by a person who is (weakly) hiding her full
identity, who works in a tech/robotics company rather than in an activist
organization, who recently deactivated her WordPress website, and who is not
pointing to any means of activism. All very consistent steps to ambitious
activism, certainly.

* "These stories are so opposite of horrifying"

Sentence followed by a complete rewrite of the said stories, using
deliberately misleading edulcoration (Stories 1 and 2), or showing the same
kind of argumentation as in "oh because autism," which is well argued against
in the main thread [1], instead of realizing that being that being "awful at
asking women out" involves clumsiness rather than suicide blackmail (Story 3).

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993532](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20993532)

(Add.) I find it hard to read threads such as this one and not feel that
tropes about computer people hold some truth, despite myself feeling close to
that group for various reasons.

------
Accacin
“And the assassins in rose tinted glasses

At the wrong end of the tunnel of light

Practitioners of paramount scorn

And those who'd rig moral compass rather than bridges”

Ever since I read these lyrics they’ve summed up precisely how I feel the
world is recently.

------
stakhanov
Who is this "Selam G." who is the author of this? Is she actually a
spokesperson on behalf of "women in the free software community and computer
science in general"?

~~~
thefz
Maybe you missed the 4 or 5 self celebratory paragraphs at the end of the
article.

------
balaksakrionon
> MIT grad, robotics engineer, mixed.

What does "mixed" mean in the author's bio? Is that relating to techinical
accumen, race, or something else?

------
jigglesniggle
This article is predicated on lies. Was the original not libel? Mid-page there
is a link to a Daily Beast article stating RMS claimed the victims were
willing, which is something he did not do.

~~~
ptah
from teh article: "I would also like to clarify that in some headlines,
including this Daily Beast one, Stallman is said to have defended Epstein,
which is not technically true. Rather, Stallman was defending Marvin Minsky. I
directly emailed and corrected reporters who used that language if I myself
had given them any comments or information. I say this to show that I never
intended to “inflate” anything, because there was absolutely no need to."

Have you actually read it?

~~~
jigglesniggle
I did, and that is true but not what I am talking about. The claim is about
the victim's willingness, not who RMS defended.

Further do court documents and other testimony related to the Epstein
investigation not agree with RMS's comments on Mr. Minsky? There is a
statement that Minsky refused relations with the girl, perhaps due to
realizing what was going on.

~~~
ptah
minsky should have refused purely because of her age imo. his morality comes
into question for me if he only refused because epstein coerced the girl

~~~
jigglesniggle
It seems like he refused because of her association to Epstein (or perhaps
just not being interested), and knew she was probably underaged and coerced
despite her own coerced statements.

People are giving Mr. Minsky flak for not refusing the donation, but refusing
_before_ the wide publicity of the Epstein scandal probably would have landed
him in hot water for some variation of "why did you not take the free money?"
or "why are you accusing this upstanding donor of human trafficking and
statutory rape?"

~~~
ptah
yeah, i don't understand outrage over taking the money at all tbh. did he
obtain the money donated from sex trafficking?

