
The Wall, a modular microLED display - ecesena
https://www.samsung.com/us/business/products/displays/direct-view-led/the-wall/
======
ChuckMcM
This is one of those "oh my gosh" technologies that you put in the lobby of
your venture capital firm or hedge fund to just calibrate the level of money
the client should be expected to have/invest.

That said, AFAICT microleds are the only technology that really lets you tile
them. So you can build a 4K UHD display that is basically a bit smaller
shorter than 8 feet (2.5 meters). But at 31 PPI it isn't great up up close.
(not bad obviously but not stunning). Once it crosses 72 PPI that is when the
world gets really interesting. For me.

~~~
lioeters
Interesting numbers.. If I recall correctly, 72 PPI is the minimum recommended
pixel density for digital prints, so the final result looks smooth and not
"pixely".

In the specs for The Wall microLED display, they mention a pixel pitch of
0.84mm. A quick conversion (1 inch = 25.4mm) tells me that's roughly 30 pixels
per inch - oh, right, that's what you meant by 31 PPI, you already calculated
it. :)

Still, it's an attractive product, and I can imagine many use cases. Looks
like the price range is $17~22K, for 9.6m x 5.4m dimension.

~~~
mattlutze
To extend the thought, 72 DPI has been the minimum recommended density for
working at a desktop. For closer materials like magazines or photos, it was I
think 300 DPI, since you might get closer. It's one of the reasons mobile
screens got more dense, so that when you hold it 30 cm from your face things
still look smooth.

So... if your average viewer will be farther away from this wall than a
desktop user, the DPI can go down and still be attractive.

Edit: the not-science-backed chart here seems to track
[http://resources.printhandbook.com/pages/viewing-distance-
dp...](http://resources.printhandbook.com/pages/viewing-distance-dpi.php)

~~~
joshspankit
At 300PPI, the cost of powering (electricity, CPU and GPU) a large feature
wall might actually exceed the cost of the wall itself.

------
p1necone
Ahh comparison pics of two different displays being shown on my display. My
favorite kind of "wait, that makes no sense whatsoever" marketing.

No matter what particular bit of new display tech they're advertising it's
_always_ the following too:

Image with undersaturated colors | Image with oversaturated colors

~~~
Mountain_Skies
This was pointed out in an advertisement for a tv back in the 1980s. Think
Harry Anderson was the pitchman for the ad. At the end he said "I'll show you
this amazing new tv but remember, you're seeing it on your screen". Haven't
seen any other video display ad since make that point.

Edit: found the commercial
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PMG2lyGRcQ&feature=emb_titl...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PMG2lyGRcQ&feature=emb_title))

~~~
wincy
Sharp had ads for Quattron on their Aquos TVs that pointed out that you
couldn’t see all the amazing colors. It had/has an extra yellow subpixel on
the screen.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4DK1Yx4R6k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4DK1Yx4R6k)

------
bhauer
The splash of dust transitions used in the product video seem pathological to
YouTube's MPEG compression. The compression renders the transitions a blurry
mess—it's so messy as to be jarring. That's disappointing in a video that is
attempting to sell the viewer on the clarity of a new display technology.

~~~
hbosch
Yeah, this is an inherent problem with marketing nice screens through bad
screens.

~~~
megous
More like bad bitrate/codec.

------
SmellyGeekBoy
Without giving away too many details, I worked on a project that involved the
first installation of this in the UK last year. It's so good in person - you'd
expect so for the price - but the early unit we worked with was incredibly
unreliable. Hopefully they've managed to iron out the (apparently heat-
related) issues by now.

~~~
dkdbejwi383
I've seen this in person in London, and it's very warm. You can feel the heat
coming off it from several metres away. Not sure if that is still causing
problems or not.

------
ksec
We already seen this in last year's CES 2018 [1]. So what exactly is new here?
Were there any technical improvement? Or was it the same thing someone decide
to post it?

[1]
[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/7/16861790/sa...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/7/16861790/samsung-
the-wall-microled-modular-tv-announced-ces-2018)

------
raggedy_andy
For people like me who only open the comment section; "the wall" is a new
display technology by Samsung that apparently allows you to easily tile them
together

------
nebulous1
Those side-by-side comparisons halfway down remind me of when you used to get
ads demonstrating how much better DVDs were than VHS ... on the VHS tape you
just rented.

~~~
eterm
Not only that but I preferred the "LED" examples in most the pictures, the
right hand side just looked oversaturated.

------
blululu
This is cool. Add it to the ever growing list of impractical and expensive
things that I want to own in spite of it. Historically speaking this sort of
reminds me of the wall of sound:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_Sound)
Totally different and way more put together but the scale evokes a similar
sensation.

~~~
rapnie
I really liked the individualism of the audio spotlight [0] but I have never
seen one in use yet.

[0] [https://www.holosonics.com/](https://www.holosonics.com/)

~~~
mohaba
I have experienced it at several Best Buy stores in the video games section to
advertise the various Call of Duty games over the past several years. You can
only barely hear it unless you are standing directly in front of the panel.

------
PolCPP
So what's new about this? It's been in the market for a while at around $20k
per tile iirc.

On the other side doesn't Sony, Barco, Christie and a few other signage
companies have something similar to it?

~~~
hinkley
Brand new TVs have a tiny bezel on three or sometimes four sides, but it's
still a bezel.

I dunno about Sony, but the Sharp and Philips models I could find had thin
bezels too. When you tile displays, you have two bezels touching, so the black
line is at least twice as wide.

Zero bezel on 4 sides also seems to be noteworthy, because it removes some
ways in which one could 'cheat'. For example the new iPhone. From what I
understand the bezel on the sides and top could be zero instead of just really
really narrow, but the bottom edge has the display electronics attached. To
keep from having a big bezel at the bottom of the phone they _folded the
screen over_ , so the electronics sit behind the display instead of below. I'm
not sure that allows true edge-to-edge display, so Samsung would have had to
do some other trick instead of feeding signal in from the edges.

A wall display that can be tiled on three edges still allows for quite a big
bigger displays (especially in situations where long linear ones are good,
like balconies or the barriers in MLS fields), but not quite like this one.

~~~
metaphor
I don't follow your logic. What makes you think Samsung is applying consumer-
grade smartphone design/cost-optimization hardware hacks to modules targeting
a completely different market segment, let alone form factor?

~~~
hinkley
I’m saying those won’t work for their design. But that hack exists on what
many would deem a luxury good.

------
kirubakaran
They should just call it "Wall" /seanparker

------
baybal2
I never though that Samsung will jump on microled bandwagon.

Samsung for long been trying to make LEDs in-situ on backplane, and they had
samples in labs at least 5 years ago.

------
macinjosh
In the next generation's version of "Woody Woodpecker" Coyote will use these
instead of fake tunnels painted on the walls.

~~~
h2odragon
I beg your pardon, ITYM "Road Runner".

~~~
macinjosh
:facepalm: you are correct

------
p1mrx
So you can combine 4 modules to make a 72" 1080p display. Regardless of cost,
this currently seems a bit impractical for home use.

~~~
monocasa
I'm currently rocking a 125" screen with a 1080p projector. I'd love 1440p
with super dark black.

------
morley
Anyone care to make an educated guess how much this thing costs? Is an 8'x10'
display going to be six figures, or seven?

~~~
keanzu
Currently, Samsung is offering two models of The Wall, or rather the
individual panels that make up The Wall, the IW008J and the IW008R. While
Samsung doesn't list prices for these panels online, other resellers are
listing the modules for $16 to $23 thousand dollars each.

These individual modules measure 31.75 x 17.86 inches, but have an individual
resolution of 960 x 540 pixels. In order to enjoy the same 3840 x 2160
resolution you'll get on a standard 4K TV, you'll need to buy 16 of these
panels, to set up in a 4 x 4 configuration that measures 146 inches
diagonally.

[https://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung-the-wall-tv-release-
dat...](https://www.tomsguide.com/us/samsung-the-wall-tv-release-
date,news-27356.html)

------
dsalzman
Direct link to PDF Spec [https://image-
us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/produ...](https://image-
us.samsung.com/SamsungUS/samsungbusiness/products/displays/direct-view-led/iw-
series/pdf/DIGSIG-THEWALLPROFDSHT-APR19T_Final_4-17-19.pdf)

------
seanalltogether
Anyone with experience with these types of panels know whether the proposed
seamless edges are actually possible? I'm a bit skeptical that manufacturing
tolerances are tight enough to create a seamless edge from independent panels
but I don't know enough to call bs.

~~~
modeless
In LCD or OLED displays, most of the display area emits light. There are black
lines between the pixels, but they are thin, so it's hard to hide a seam in
one. In contrast, the micro LEDs on this display are very small relative to
the distance between them, "micrometer scale" vs. almost a millimeter. Most of
the display area is actually a blank black surface, where a seam can be
hidden.

Making smaller displays this way will be a challenge as the pixels will have
to get closer together.

------
htk
English is not my first language but even I can spot some rough edges in the
copy. Probably translated by a non-native, and they read like AliExpress’
product pages: trying to be inspiring but in reality just confusing.

------
satya71
Someone loves the word "Great" in their marketing department.

~~~
capableweb
No joke. Good example how to not write marketing copy for a landing page. This
is from the linked page:

\- Behind the greatness of microLED display technology

\- View the greatness

\- Great black

\- Great color

\- Great refinement

\- Build the greatness

\- Great design

\- Great modularity

\- Great look

\- Handle the greatness

\- Great performance

\- ... see the greatness of microLED display technology up close

Hint for people writing landing pages: try to not use the same word over and
over again. Something like thesaurus.com can help you find alternatives, but
make sure you understand the replacement word and that it sounds natural.

~~~
numlock86
> Hint for people writing landing pages: [...] Something like thesaurus.com
> can help you find alternatives [...]

Guess the next ad campaign will read like this:

\- Behind the prodigiousness of microLED display technology

\- View the amplitude

\- Stupendous black

\- Humongous color

\- Titanic refinement

... you get the point.

------
mstade
I’d have hoped for HN there’d be an article focusing more on technology, and
not just a marketing site. That said, does anyone know how this compares to
LG’s OLED tech?

~~~
wmf
LED walls aka jumbotrons have been around for years and it's not particularly
clear what's new here other than the consumer branding. LED walls appear to be
far more expensive than OLED but it's hard to compare given that there's no
overlap in size.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
> it's not particularly clear what's new here other than the consumer branding

Pixel density

------
ortusdux
Any idea on the estimated price per panel?

~~~
chadmaughan
On SHI, it's listed at $16,779.00 (per unit?)
[https://www.shi.com/products/productdetail.aspx?SHISystemID=...](https://www.shi.com/products/productdetail.aspx?SHISystemID=SHICommodity&ProductIdentity=35923808&EventID=d89f144e-56a0-42d5-9781-8bb9c9faed13)

------
jontro
A power draw of 130w per module(incl. cabinet) will give you a nice usage of
2kW in the standard configuration.

------
entangledqubit
With pixels sized at about a millimeter, maybe it should be called a
"milliLED" display.

~~~
wmf
The catch is that the pixel is mostly black and the LEDs take up a small
fraction of it. One might say a microscopic fraction.

------
empath75
I think the comparison screenshots are hilariously dumb given that most people
are going to be viewing them on a normal lcd screen. How did they magically
make my screen display previously impossible colors!

~~~
Andrew_nenakhov
It's explained right there: "The Wall’s microLED technology possesses
_inherent color qualities_ with _two times superior color purity_ ".

2x superior color purity is no mean feat. Such advanced technology can
transcend beyond the boundaries set by your paltry screen.

------
macewindu
How much power does this consume? Can it be battery powered? I wish there was
a requirement for ads to list all the bill of materials they used and links to
specifications.

~~~
tjmc
190W/module max. 130W/module typical.

Full specs are there. Click on "See all specifications" near the bottom just
above the form.

------
antfarm
Parlor walls.

------
danvoell
Any guesses as to consumer pricing on this?

------
wwweston
I guess the Fahrenheit 451 references are inevitable, so why not embrace the
naming? :b

~~~
reificator
Samsung doesn't need any more references to fire in the public consciousness
right now.

------
volune
We don't need no illumination.

~~~
apollopower
We don't need no remote control

~~~
shipit
No dark LED in the clean room

~~~
juancampa
Samsung leave TVs alone

------
brb3
A marketing page at the number one spot on Hacker News, and only 35 minutes
old. Hmm.

~~~
danem
How is this any different than what happens after every Apple product launch?

~~~
tengbretson
Well for starters a lot of HN users actually use the products Apple launches.

~~~
wayneftw
Every television in my house is a Samsung and all of my Android phones are
too.

~~~
tengbretson
I have no hesitation in saying that you will _never_ own, nor be in the market
for this product.

~~~
wayneftw
Even in cases where that might be true - would you still allow me the
enjoyment of reading about it?

Gee golly, I mean I don't live anywhere near The Boring Company tunnel
projects but I still like reading about those...

What's your problem?

------
ProfessorLayton
I can't wait for micro LED displays to become mainstream.

IMHO OLED displays are analogous to Plasma displays back in the day: A new
tech that enabled many new form factors (Thinner TVs) but had many key
drawbacks like power consumption and burn-in. The same is the case with OLED,
which enables new form factors like foldable displays, but brings its own
issues.

I've been actively avoiding OLED displays for all my purchases due to its
major current drawback: Burn-in. As beautiful as OLED displays may be with
color and contrast, I have seen plenty of TV displays and phones with a
permanently burned-in image of something that remained static for too long
such as network logos, and status bars. My previous employer used beautiful
80" Samsung displays for their conference rooms, all of which were ruined in
little over a year.

This matters a lot to me because I use my TV for gaming, which involves static
menus that will burn OLED displays if you're not careful.

This is not something current LED displays are prone to, and I'm hoping micro
LED displays work the same way.

~~~
baybal2
> This is not something current LED displays are prone to,

I will disappoint you. LED displays have burn ins too! And with pixel sizes
approaching that of OLED, burn ins will start sooner, and be more visible.

Samsung will not go for microled for consumer market until it gets "led on the
backplane" going. That eliminates the transfer process, and most of cost
associated with it.

The unsolved issue is current transfer. If you grow LED in-situ, you have to
somehow put power supply there too, and preferably do it in the same
manufacturing process.

If you have to transfer LEDs mechanically, it makes little cost difference to
put LED driver ICs there mechanically too.

~~~
ProfessorLayton
You're right that LED isn't immune from burn-in, however, it is _much_ more
resistant to it, and isn't necessarily permanent either. Leaving an LED
display off for a few days, often less, can be enough to bring it back to
normal.

Another artifact OLED displays have is their PenTile subpixel arrangement to
compensate for the red, blue, and green organic compounds degrading at
different rates. Hopefully micro LED brings us OLED quality with LCD
reliability.

~~~
baybal2
The smaller is the junction area, the more current goes through it. If you
want to produce more photons with smaller area, you will inevitably run into
that.

Those LED displays you can get in retail are nowhere close in die size to what
microled is. Those conventional 1080P led displays with <1mm pitch already
demonstrate very visible burnins. There is one in a hotel nearby that is only
4 moths old, and I can already distinguish an imprint from the brand logo,
they seem to have unknowingly ran it on maximum brightness though.

~~~
toast0
> Those LED displays you can get in retail

Do you mean the LCD displays with LED backlights; that's what I've seen in
retail, marketed as "LED TV"? Are you seeing burnin of the LEDs, or image
retention on the LCD? LED burn in might look more like noticeably different
white levels across the different local dimming areas, especially if it gets
worse over time related to static brightness differences in the displayed
image.

~~~
baybal2
I mean commercial small pitch LED panels made of modules, like ones used for
outdoor advertising, but much smaller.

