
Google bans Podcast Addict app over non-approved Covid-19 content - garyclarke27
https://reclaimthenet.org/google-play-suspends-podcast-addict/
======
dang
See also this related Ask HN thread:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221447](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23221447)

~~~
LukaszO
Similar thing happened to me with my game. You can read the story here.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229073](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229073)

------
ipsum2
My favorite (and only) podcasting app. I hope someone who works at Google
reads this and flag it internally.

This quote really sums up how ridiculous Google is being:

> What Google is asking of Podcast Addict would be comparable to Google asking
> a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media
> posts that reference the coronavirus unless the reference comes from an
> official government entity or public health organization.

~~~
Crosseye_Jack
> asking a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social
> media posts

Except usually a web browser doesn't include a index of sites, You go to a
another site (Google/Bing) for that. If a browser does include "recommended
sites" the landing pages of those sites best keep to Google's and Apples
rules. For an extreme example, If Firefox was promoting PornHub on the new tab
page we could understand why Google or Apple would tell them to cut it out,
but it doesn't stop you from visiting the site.

I'm not saying I agree with what Google have done here (IMO they should re-
instate Podcast Addict), Just that I can see why Google could think
"recommended podcasts" and podcast indexes come under the "included content"
of an app.

EDIT: As others has said here, It's more like Google banning YouTube because
it contains video's about covid 19 which don't come from "approved sources"
(Though Google did demonetize people for talking about it and de-rank non
"approved sources")

~~~
nisa
YouTube constantly recommends me COVID-19 conspiracy videos since I dared to
watch one that was popular here in Germany. Basically on every video I watch I
have now german conspiracy videos as recommendations. I did neither like the
video or did I subscribe the channel.

It's beyond fucked up what Google is doing.

~~~
pxtail
If you want to watch something one-off, some interesting tidbit outside of
your curated feed then doing it in incognito mode is required, otherwise, as
you noted you are doomed.

~~~
crottypeter
If you find it here and delete it, I think it will cease to influence your
recommended videos.

[https://www.youtube.com/feed/history](https://www.youtube.com/feed/history)

~~~
kyteland
I have YouTube history turned off along with other publicly visible tracking
and this kind of nonsense still happens to me. Their algo is working on more
data than just what they make visible to the user.

"The only winning move is not to play."

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
You have to evict all Google tracking cookies. Just disabling a few features
won't cut it.

------
blhack
At this point: I wish they’d just take a stronger stance and ban everything
they don’t like. Just ban the political party they don’t like, ban anything
that speaks out against China, just ban it all.

We need to go back to the web, where anybody could install Apache and off they
went. Bandwidth is cheap now. BitTorrent exists.

I hope google and twitter and Facebook and all the rest just hurry up with all
this.

Some other ridiculous examples of them becoming the ministry of truth:

There was a joke image going around on Facebook saying: “Arizona beaches
packed during coronavirus!”. A joke about Arizona not having any beaches
because it’s a desert. Facebook censors this and gives you some creepy warning
before your allowed to see it.

Or how about: there is a doctor from the university of Minnesota who is
running a large scale, international, placebo controlled RCT for a potential
covid prophylactic. Twitter is censoring his links to find out more about the
study. HE IS A DOCTOR RUNNING A STUDY AT A MAJOR UNI, and twitter is telling
him he is misinformation.

It’s all just disgusting and is exactly what a lot of people feared would
happen with these companies.

~~~
plorg
There is indeed a problem here, and FAANG are being hamhanded and
overaggressive in their response, but it's hard to find an overt bias that
maps neatly onto the dominant (American?) political cleavage.

Much more often (as here), these companies are 1) making decisions in a way
that allows them to abstract away and thus ignore the nuances of individual
cases 2) putting the burden of implementation on underpaid workers who are not
equipped to make these decisions and 3) reacting to any noticeable pushback by
moving 200% in the opposite directions.

Locating the problem in Political motivations overlooks the economic
incentives that monopolies have to 1) lobby/appease the people in power 2) use
political opportunity to squelch competition and 3) treat their workers as
disposable commodities.

~~~
SkyBelow
>but it's hard to find an overt bias that maps neatly onto the dominant
(American?) political cleavage.

What about things like google search suggestions being manipulated to hide
unfavorable suggestions, but only for certain candidates? I remember seeing
this happening real time after trying it one day per a reddit post and then a
few days later per another reddit post that such suggestions had stopped
showing.

The invention of the tools may have been orchestrated well outside of
political leanings, but once invented and handed over for employees to use
their application has follow political leanings.

~~~
hackissimo123
I don't find it hard to believe that Google does things like this, but can you
be more specific? What experiment can I run myself to verify that this
happens?

------
heinrichhartman
This is the result of out-sourcing juristic work to private companies:

If we treat Android, Window, Twitter, Facebook, as public spaces/goods, then
private companies should not have a say in what is allowed/not-allowed on
their platforms. This is work for the courts and police to decide and enforce.

If we treat those platforms as private. Then we are playing in s/o's backyard.
You are totally at their mercy. They have every right to kick you out if they
don't like your face. It's their property. You are a guest.

I think we need constituted digital public spaces and platforms with:

\- democratic footing (users are in charge)

\- public ownership

\- division of power (politicians =!= judges =!= police)

\- effective policing

In such a system it would be for independent courts to decide which Apps can
be distributed and which not. Those courts would be bound to a
constitution/body of law, which applies to all parties a like.

Yes, this will be expensive. Yes, you will have to give up some privacy. But
you will be a citizen in a society, and not a stranger playing in a backyard.

Maybe the current platforms can be coerced into a system which approximates
the above. But I have my doubts. I hope in 200years people will have figured
this out, and will look back to this age as the digital dark ages.

~~~
scarface74
You really trust the US court system to be impartial?

Should Apple/Google be forced to carry pornographic apps? White supremacists
apps? Apps that invade people’s privacy? Which government should hold this
responsibility? Should we have an international committee deciding this?

~~~
chroem-
Please stop. The more we play this tit-for-tat game of political point
scoring, the more it causes the whole system to degenerate. It is corrupting
every facet of our society, to the point at which we're no longer able to be
objective about life and death matters like the current pandemic.

~~~
scarface74
No I’m just amazed that people are willing to give government more power - the
same government who would like nothing more than to have more power to intrude
on people’s life.

~~~
koheripbal
We're advocating moving this power from massive corporations to the
government, because at least the government has _some_ accountability, whereas
Google has NONE.

~~~
CWuestefeld
I argue that the government has essentially zero accountability, while the
private sector has a huge degree.

Our bandwidth for holding government accountable is so limited as to be
useless. Consider the federal gov't, since I think it's what you're mostly
talking about anyway. We get to vote for

* 1x Presidential primary every 4 years, from a field of, let's say, 8 to be generous: 3 bits

* 1x President every 4 years, from a field of 4 at best: 2 bits

* 2x Senator primary every 6 years. Let's again say a field of 8: 3 bits

* 2x Senator every 6 years. Let's again say a field of 4: 2 bits

* 1x Representative primary every 2 years. Again, very generous field of 8: 3 bits

* 1x Representative every 2 years, field of 4: 2 bits

That gives us 5.4 bits/year of bandwidth to actually hold our elected
officials accountable. Yes, we can write letters and stuff, but that doesn't
really allow us to hold them accountable. 5.4 bits in a year is nowhere near
enough to express our feelings on the myriad of topics that the government is
fiddling with, so we have effectively zero control over those things.

Compare that with private sector. Even for entities like Google, we've got
huge latitude to vote with our feet. We can use DuckDuckGo, etc. Our choices
as consumers provides a comparatively enormous bandwidth.

~~~
ksk
>Yes, we can write letters and stuff, but that doesn't really allow us to hold
them accountable

Public protests/rallies/marches do bring about change in government/government
policies. Many politicians do care about their public image, and are
susceptible to manipulation based on public pressure.

>Compare that with private sector. Even for entities like Google, we've got
huge latitude to vote with our feet. We can use DuckDuckGo, etc. Our choices
as consumers provides a comparatively enormous bandwidth.

Okay, so agreeing with you for the sake of argument - they provide a
bandwidth, in theory, but what is the pointif nobody actually uses it? It is
"effectively" zero accountability. No mass exodus from
Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook/Twitter/Whatsapp/TikTok/insert bad company/...

~~~
scarface74
So now we need the government to intervene for people's own good because
people willingly give their money to Big Tech?

~~~
ksk
The government is a made-up construct we created to serve us. What the
government should or shouldn't do is up to us.

------
fjcp
I use Podcast Addict every day, I would even say that is my most used app on
android. I work listening to podcasts and PA is the best app for those who
like highly customizable software. You can change almost everything.

Its sad that we are in a situation where a company can dictate what we can
install on our computers/smartphones. I know we can sideload apps on android,
but the majority of users doesn't care about this and just give away its
freedom to really own the device in exchange for the easiest way to operate
it. And every day we walk towards lesser control of our property and more
dependency of those companies.

Another problem is that developers can, without notice, be locked out of their
incomes for whatever reason without ways to properly appeal. Those who can, we
should consider supporting the developer Xavier Guillemane on Patreon, at
least until this situation gets resolved. The amount of work he put on the
app, its probably his main source of income and I wouldn't like if he need to
abandon the app development due to this. The lowest tier is just $1.

~~~
ngngngng
> dictate what we can install on our computers/smartphones

Can they though? Android does not make it difficult at all to install apps
through stores other than their own Play Store. A quick internet search
reveals that there are at least a dozen other options for users to download
apps to Android phones.

I agree that a devices OS should allow alternative means to install apps, but
Android has clearly done this.

~~~
searchableguy
Alternative stores don't have the same access as play store. They can't have
auto-updates.

------
lord_erasmus
In most of these stories featuring Google abusing their power to remove apps,
it's usually a matter of some automated tool gone wrong and the problem is
solved a couple of days later. But this time it's different, they are actually
asking developers to censor themselves if they are not affiliated with a gov.

~~~
gundmc
What makes you think this is something other than another (awful) high profile
case of automation gone wrong?

~~~
fauigerzigerk
Because their action seems consistent with their stated intention of banning
all non-official speech on Covid-19?

It could still be reversed if they feel public opinion swings the other way.
That wouldn't mean it's automation gone wrong.

~~~
random32840
It may be automated based on frequency of reports, but either way this is
unlikely to be company policy. The people who make these decisions are
relatively low-level employees following a company guidebook. The guidebook
says it has to go? It has to go. The employee doesn't want to get fired.

I doubt it'll stick.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
_>...but either way this is unlikely to be company policy_

Perhaps you haven't seen the article because it's behind an Apple News link.
There's a screenshot of a message stating company policy as follows:

 _" Pursuant to Section 8.3 of the Developer Agreement and the Enforcement
policy, apps referencing Covid-19, or related terms, in any form will only be
approved for distribution on Google Play if they are published, commissioned
or authorized by official government entities or public health organizations"_

~~~
vageli
> >...but either way this is unlikely to be company policy

> Perhaps you haven't seen the article because it's behind an Apple News link.
> There's a screenshot of a message stating company policy as follows:

> "Pursuant to Section 8.3 of the Developer Agreement and the Enforcement
> policy, apps referencing Covid-19, or related terms, in any form will only
> be approved for distribution on Google Play if they are published,
> commissioned or authorized by official government entities or public health
> organizations"

How does their own browser not run afoul of this policy?

~~~
Spivak
Because policies are written and interpreted by humans that have the common
sense to understand that there is no connection between the browser app and
the content it displays.

This _entire thread_ is a discussion about Google's automatic tool flagging a
podcast browser erroneously. If Google's response was to uphold the suspension
then there would be an actual story, but they won't, and so it isn't.

------
spians
This "Not approved by Government or Public Health Organizations" rule seems to
apply to all the indie apps except for the apps built by mega corps

\- Twitter app asks users to follow Covid-19 related news as the first item in
their home screen after login (and has a separate tab for news related to
Covid-19 in Search screen).

\- Reddit official app asks users to subscribe to /r/Coronavirus (that
subreddit is not moderated by any government).

\- Quora android app has a banner at the top that is similar (follow
Coronavirus Space - all the content in that topic seems to be generated by
users).

\- YouTube app currently has a featured video related to Covid on my feed from
one of their official Spotlight channels.

I'm sure Facebook has something similar to follow news related to Covid.

So there's no consistency of banning non-official speech on Covid-19

Also this is not the first time it happened. Same thing happened to

\- A meme generator app because one of the memes contained word Corona
([https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/fn0wzl/app_with...](https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/fn0wzl/app_with_1_million_downloads_suspended_because_of/)).

\- An RSS reader app for showing news related to Covid
([https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/ggb3s7/a_week_s...](https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/ggb3s7/a_week_since_covid_suspension/))

\- A self improvement app that curates articles
([https://reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/gem317/our_app_was_...](https://reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/gem317/our_app_was_removed_from_store_for_covid19))

And in all of these examples, app seems to be restored after talking to
someone at Google. Shouldn't that be the first thing done by the Google play
team (before suspending the app) instead of dev losing all the installs and
revenue for the time the app is suspended?

~~~
searchableguy
None of the app stores are fair. Apple charges amazon 2x less for any
subscriptions done through the app store. They all reject many indie apps for
protecting privacy or security but then all the big apps are allowed to do it.
Their apps can access system APIs that are off limit to others.

Some people in the comment section only recently feeling the censorship done
by china affecting them but imagine other non-US countries that get censored
by American companies all the time.

------
square_usual
This is like Google banning the YouTube app from the play store for having
videos about covid that aren't from government sources. Insane stuff.

~~~
solarkraft
> Insane stuff

Google is actually applying the same standard in this case (or at least
attempting to). They're also fighting conspiracy theories on YouTube.

~~~
laumars
It's a great pity all the factual comments about YouTube's COVID-19 video
removal policy (or "censorship" depending on your viewpoint) are being down
voted while all the anti-Google rhetoric is floating above it.

I get it's cool to hate Google these days and I'm not saying I agree with the
removal of the podcast app, _however_ the removal of that app _is_ consistent
with how Google have been maintaining some of their other platforms too. This
isn't a theoretical point either, it's been well documented in the news and
talked to death on here too. So regardless of my opinion of Google (and to be
clear: I'm not fan either) I still can't help feeling that all the "Google are
hypocrites" remarks being made are completely ignorant of the fact that Google
are actually removing content on YouTube as well.

Here's a bunch of citations that proves this and the GP comments are actually
correct despite the down votes:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23220864](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23220864)

~~~
Dylan16807
It's a great pity that you treat legitimate disagreement as mindless anger.

"They are removing content on youtube." is a true factual statement.

"They are applying the same standard." is not.

The motivation may be the same, but the types of removal are very different.
As long as their own podcasting app is up in its current form, there is a very
good argument that they're not being consistent.

~~~
laumars
> _It 's a great pity that you treat legitimate disagreement as mindless
> anger._

I’m not talking about disagreement of these posts (there’s nothing to
disagree, the comments were factually accurate), I’m talking about the
comments where people say stuff like “Google's rules only apply to their
competitors“, which clearly isn’t true (as I’ve proven).

I also don’t agree with you exaggerating my comments to claim I was accusing
people of being mindless and agree when I said no such thing.

> _The motivation may be the same, but the types of removal are very
> different. As long as their own podcasting app is up in its current form,
> there is a very good argument that they 're not being consistent._

When splitting hairs there’s a risk you sub-divide the problem so finely that
you then can argue nothing is equivalent and I think that’s what’s happening
here.

There’s a saying that goes something like “don’t attributed malice to acts of
incompetence” which applies here. People are quick to jump on the offensive
when it’s clearly a policy that Google follow on their other platforms and it
might well be a decision that is overturned upon review.

I explain this point more eloquently here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23222167](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23222167)

~~~
Dylan16807
I don't think it's splitting hairs. Banning video channels and banning apps
are very different things. Consistency would ban both apps and any normal web
browser, or would have never gone near banning this one.

The equivalent to the youtube bans is when they ban apps that are _actually
about covid-19_. Not apps with internet search.

> I’m not talking about disagreement of these posts (there’s nothing to
> disagree, the comments were factually accurate), I’m talking about the
> comments where people say stuff like “Google's rules only apply to their
> competitors“, which clearly isn’t true (as I’ve proven).

No, the exact opposite of that. Because I was replying to the part of your
post that says "It's a great pity all the factual comments about YouTube's
COVID-19 video removal policy (or "censorship" depending on your viewpoint)
are being down voted"

That _is_ about disagreement, and is _not_ about comments where people say
stuff like “Google's rules only apply to their competitors“.

> I also don’t agree with you exaggerating my comments to claim I was accusing
> people of being mindless and agree when I said no such thing.

You said "factual comments are being down voted" in favor of "anti-Google
rhetoric". That's either people being mindless or people being malicious.
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "anger", but I don't think "mindless" is
exaggerating what you said at all. You painted the situation as having no
legitimate reason to downvote those comments.

~~~
laumars
I don’t think there is a legitimate reason and I’ve cited how those comments
were factually accurate. You might disagree with the comparison but I don’t
think we are likely to see eye to on that, which is fine. :)

However I still object to you twisting my words to something far more sinister
then they’re clearly intended. That’s simply not good debating.

~~~
Dylan16807
There were comments with facts, but whether they supported the point being
made was arguable. If the facts are irrelevant, it's not a great pity to see a
downvote.

And yeah, that disagreement is fine.

But you need to understand that I am _not_ trying to twist your words at all.
I see those two things as synonyms. No twisting is intended. And for you to
say "far more sinister then they’re clearly intended" sounds like an
accusation of deliberate malicious behavior, not even me making a mistake, and
I don't appreciate that.

~~~
laumars
“Disagree” and “hate” are not synonyms. They’re related terms but they don’t
mean the same thing and are intended to express different extremes of
sentiment.

“Deliberate” and “malicious” is another example of related but terms that are
not synonyms.

Whereas “mindless” was entirely fabricated by you.

You can’t just swap out words for more emotive terms and assume that was the
writers original intent. Especially when you then go on to use those new, more
highly charged words, as part of your complaint against the original comment.

I can also see for your post history (
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229973](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229973))
that you don’t like it when you feel misquoted yourself, so why do the same to
others?

~~~
Dylan16807
> “Disagree” and “hate” are not synonyms.

My post was only talking about disagreement as expressed by downvoting. I was
not using disagreement as a synonym for hate.

> “Deliberate” and “malicious” is another example of related but terms that
> are not synonyms.

I wasn't saying they were. I feel like you're greatly misunderstanding my
posts or something.

> Whereas “mindless” was entirely fabricated by you.

So what motivation were you implying, when you talked about it being a "great
pity that all the factual comments" about the policy were being downvoted?

I wasn't swapping out your own words for other words. You never explicitly
said what the motivation was, so I did my best to convert that into words.
You're telling me I did that wrong, fine, but it wasn't on purpose. You tell
me what words I should use there, to talk about the motivation of those
downvoters.

> I can also see for your post history (
> [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229973](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229973))
> that you don’t like it when you feel misquoted yourself, so why do the same
> to others?

What a weird flex. They weren't quoting me at all.

------
iagooar
And meanwhile you can use Google to search for "covid19 podcast" and you will
get podcast recommendations from non-government sources. This is insane.

~~~
eternalban
The object of censorship is _silencing_ dissent.

A million clueless searches vs a few informed dissenting voices, which is more
troubling for authoritarian regimes?

You can search all you want, but can you _share_ what you have learned?

Welcome to our "new normal".

~~~
mcintyre1994
Sure, here's me sharing a page I got to from a Google Search, hosted by
Google:
[https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5jYXN0Zml...](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5jYXN0ZmlyZS5jb20vYWJjLW5ld3MtcmFkaW8vY292aWRfMTk/episode/S0FHakFoOXhDNUdEb0ZNOXA2eDdVaW1IeWlPcXQ5Rjc?ved=0CAcQ38oDahcKEwiwp5rwo73pAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQHQ)

On it you can listen to a podcast about Covid 19 from a media company that is
not a government agency or health organisation.

------
newswasboring
I just downloaded google podcast app. Did a search for corona, there are a
bunch of results. Google is not a government entity, neither are all the
podcasts I could find using it. I hope they will ban their own podcast app
pretty soon.

~~~
donatzsky
Make sure you flag Google Podcasts as inappropriate, giving the references to
coronavirus as the reason.

~~~
thehm
Link for convenience: [https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-
developer/cont...](https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-
developer/contact/takedown)

The package name is 'com.google.android.apps.podcasts'

------
kolpazan
This is my first comment in HN. This is the best productive podcast app ever.
The developer is also so helpful with any kind of bugs I reported. I hope this
is resolved quickly.

~~~
MattGaiser
I am impressed you remember your password from that long ago.

~~~
Hamuko
Pretty sure password managers existed four years ago.

~~~
gus_massa
And if you have forgot your password but filled the email field, you can reset
it with
[https://news.ycombinator.com/forgot](https://news.ycombinator.com/forgot)

------
kyrra
(googler, opinions are my own).

Looks like the appeal was accepted[0]. As well, Google's SVP of
Android/Chrome/ChromeOS/PlayStore apologized to the Podcast Addict team[1].

[0]
[https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1262541050817605632](https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1262541050817605632)

[1]
[https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1262562502417641473](https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1262562502417641473)

~~~
kwhitefoot
What action is being taken to prevent similar foolishness in the future?

Or is Google leaving their process unchanged in the hope that the next thing
to be unreasonably suppressed will evoke less outrage?

~~~
a9entroy
It's hard to take an action. Google cares about recall right now to avoid
liability. In theory it could be easily solved by lowering the threshold which
will certainly improve precision. But you know what that will also do? It will
lower recall which will just open Google up to litigation or regulation. See
what regulation did to YouTube. It's the same reason YouTube has such a weird
copyright strike process. Google is not secretly conspiring against YouTube
creators like the creators would like you to believe.

------
cft
I think a socially good deed would be to take the original tweet
[https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261671685477941253...](https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1261671685477941253/photo/1)
and respond to it tweeting @FTC , @kenpaxtontx (who is behind the antimonopoly
case). Google will reinstate the app soon, but it should help building the
antimonopoly case against this evil machine.

~~~
sixstringtheory
Somewhat on topic: a reply to that tweet simply had the captain kirk facepalm
gif, and twitter warned me that it may contain sensitive content. Social media
is creating a milquetoast society.

------
kleiba
I've never lived in China but this immediately sounds like my (naive) idea of
what it must be like: you're only allowed to consume what the government has
approved.

I think this is setting a dangerous precedence.

~~~
weiming
Except in this case it's not the government, but private corporations taking
some kind of political stance.

Google in particular has been very "active," not to forget also:
[https://www.businessinsider.com/youtube-will-ban-anything-
ag...](https://www.businessinsider.com/youtube-will-ban-anything-against-who-
guidance-2020-4) ("video that 'goes against' WHO guidance on the pandemic will
be blocked")

~~~
Tepix
There is a lot of pressure on the large tech companies to stop spreading
misinformation. This is one of their measures.

~~~
indymike
So? That pressure is unconstitutional in the US and should be ignored
completely and resisted utterly.

~~~
the-real-jap
How is it unconstitutional? Google/Youtube is not a neutral carrier and can
pick what gets broadcasted - just like Fox or CNN.

For the record: as a paying Podcast Addict user, I think this is a shitty
action by Google. I just don't see how it is unconstitutional.

NB. I hope something good comes out of this, like more people discovering and
using third party app stores, or being able to run apps on android auto even
if google hasn't approved such apps (hello TomTom).

~~~
indymike
The pressure from the government is unconstitutional.

~~~
moftz
The govt asking Google to help keep the spread of misinformation down is
totally different than the govt forcing Google to do so and arresting anyone
that posts anything contrary to the official position.

~~~
indymike
Freedom of speech doesn't really care if information is correct or incorrect.

------
choward
I've been getting away from apps installed from the play store over the years.
This is one of the 2 remaining apps I have that I paid for. This is appalling
behavior my Google. I can't wait until I can make a real Linux based phone my
daily driver.

~~~
FpUser
I would love this as well (Linux phone). Sadly not likely to happen on wider
scale and nice hardware.

~~~
kreetx
This would be really nice, yes. Then we could just use the same tools we
configure our computers with on our phones too.

~~~
fsflover
Here you go:

[https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/](https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/)

and

[https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/](https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/)

~~~
kreetx
I had seen them and perhaps it's time to give them a go. Are you (or anyone
else) using it, and how is it?

~~~
skinnyasianboi
I'm using a Pinephone for a few months now. Not as my main Phone. The hardware
is not great(150$) but the software is getting better each week. It's so much
fun to play around with. And I'm going to buy the next hardware generation
without thinking twice.

------
Barrin92
One of the few paid apps I use extensively. Completely ridiculous given _that
their own damn podcast app_ shows everyone the same podcasts.

Not to mention that you can literally post an RSS feed into pretty much every
podcast app, it's an open ecosystem. Jesus.

Can Google actually put people with some degree of sensibliity in charge of
these decisions? This reminds me of Amazon deleting 1984 from people's
Kindles.

------
yuvalr1
This is once again an example for how freedom of speech is becoming more and
more controlled by tech companies.

I'm a little worried about this phenomenon. Google is not constructed by
journalists. Freedom of speech might not be first priority for Google.

~~~
encom
Just think about how extremely dystopian it is, to punish someone for relaying
information that is not approved by the government.

The slope is getting slippier every day.

~~~
9HZZRfNlpR
Sweden and herd immunity is official government source? Also this is the only
country where scientists are in 100% control, politicians don't make these
shots what so ever, this is their policy for this pandemic. So all these anti
lockdown folks can always have that as an official government source and
possibly also scientific because of the way they set it up there. Of course at
least in Europe all the countries are moving the same direction anyway.

~~~
moftz
Sweden is 7th in confirmed cases per capita. I'm not sure you can point to
them as a success story.

------
mijoharas
Wow, obviously an oversight. Pretty sure Google does not want search tools to
be responsible for the content of the results they surface...

~~~
laumars
To some extent they already are. Whether it’s the EUs “Right to be Forgotten”
or US DMCA takedown notices, Google are responsible for removing listings.

To be clear: I also don’t agree with the podcast takedown.

------
amanzi
I'm sure Google will suspend their own podcast app too?

> Searching for “coronavirus”or “COVID-19” in Google Podcasts returns podcasts
> from mainstream media outlets that aren’t endorsed by government entities or
> public health organizations.

------
tams
It's a great podcast app which gives the user a ton of freedom and tweaking
possibilities, but it's also set and forget.

If this is the first time you hear about it, the safest place to obtain it is
the author's Google Drive:
[https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1262047866614247425](https://twitter.com/PodcastAddict/status/1262047866614247425)

------
lighttower
I've seen so many of these posts saying, Google removes this or that from the
store. But until now I did not realize how criminal this is. I know the Dev.
Super guy, addresses help questions from thousands of users personally all
without the jaded condescending that many maintainers effuse.

------
Geeflow
Podcast Addict is my favorite podcast app. I have been using it with great
satisfaction for years. I hope that gets sorted out quickly.

Another aspect that I don't quite understand: The story claims that Google
asks for the app to be published as a new download. And indeed the provided
screenshot includes this request (in pretty small print). This makes no sense
to me. Why wouldn't Google be satisfied by just changing the existing app? Any
ideas what the reason might be?

------
JeremyNT
If you are an end user who would like to avoid getting caught in this
situation, you might want to switch to using F-Droid [0] as your primary
source of Android software. The selection is more limited, but because
everything is open source and distributed outside of Google's walled garden,
you can be sure that it won't be arbitrarily removed because of the whims of
corporate bureaucracy.

I write this not as a dogmatic free software proponent, either; I have bought
apps on the Play Store in the past and would consider doing so if the
experience weren't so poor. Dealing with the Play Store has gotten so
frustrating (not just due to this issue, but also due to the difficulty of
filtering out shovelware and spyware) that I only reach for it as a last
resort now.

[0] [https://f-droid.org/](https://f-droid.org/)

~~~
rjmunro
How does f-droid police "shovelware and spyware"? Or just outright malware?
Surely they will remove it? In which case your favourite app might be
"arbitrarily removed"?

~~~
goda90
They try to scan for them, and have reporting options. Its open source apps
only, so first, if its removed, then arguments can be made using the full
source code as evidence one way or another. And you can always grab the code
for your favorite app and build it yourself.

[https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Anti-Features/](https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Anti-
Features/)

~~~
UncleMeat
Open source doesn't change anything here. Bytecode has a extremely tight
relationship with source so even if none of the code is open you can still
strongly point to specific pieces of code that cause problems. The core issue
with detailed explanations of the malicious behavior that trips over automated
detection is that it enables malware authors to more easily hide malicious
behavior.

------
dmix
This whole industry-wide proactive campaign against misinformation since 2016
has been a disaster. COVID has helped amplified the flaws. The fact this was
going to cause an endless amount of false positives negating the wider value
proposition should have been obvious since day one.

The worst acts by powerful organizations are almost always done under the
guise of 'helping people'. Nobody oppresses you for the sake of oppression.
They'll do it under the banner of some good intentions.

Google shows why merely collecting the smartest minds from around the world in
one place is not good enough on its own. They need proper leadership and
strong values to guide them ... two things Google has long lacked.

------
milofeynman
Google should be more careful about banning high ranking/rated apps. It looks
anti-competitive considering they want more people using Google podcasting
app.

I'd like to think this was an accident somewhere down the chain and will be
remedied in the morning. I love the app and hope it gets sorted out.

~~~
marcinzm
>It looks anti-competitive

Why would google care at this point? Regulators world wide are basically
useless. They might sue Google eventually and years later Google might settle
for 1% of the profit they made as a result. So why would they ever care?

------
000dry
Podcast Addict is a great app. I came across it back when I was playing around
with Tasker, and it was such a fun app to create tasks around simply because
the developer has exposed so much through Intents. A really positive platform,
such a shame to see Google quashing this sort of thing.

------
MattGaiser
What is going on with Google? We had PushBullet being threatened with removal
over vague problems just a few days ago.

I don't buy the "evil monopoly" narrative as what does this accomplish for
Google?

~~~
indy
Probably a sign of over-reliance on automated systems

------
dannyw
> In order to get the app restored, Google is asking Guillemane to remove
> references to COVID-19 and keywords related to COVID-19 from the app.

So is this a metadata issue, or a content issue?

~~~
Steko
Why does a general use podcast app have covid in its search keywords? Scumbag
marketing tactic; kudos to google if that’s all this is over.

~~~
matsemann
Did it? Looking at the Google cache of the Play Store page, the only
references I can find to covid, virus or similar terms are reviews saying they
downloaded it because of the lockdown and are happy with it.

Edit: Here's how the page looked the day before takedown, no hints here at
least of them doing anything like that:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20200515172150/https://play.googl...](http://web.archive.org/web/20200515172150/https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bambuna.podcastaddict)

And even if they were, couldn't a general app say something along "listen to
your favorite sports podcasts, ted talks or get the latest news about X"?

------
mrkramer
Meanwhile on Google's own podcast search engine
[https://podcasts.google.com/?q=covid-19](https://podcasts.google.com/?q=covid-19).
Content management teams are too powerful, this needs to be decided by some
kind of content board within the company and not by one person who is leading
the content management team within Google Play.

------
not_a_moth
Wow, rather Orwellian. The referenced authorities aren't even in agreement on
a lot of basics about covid, and had given false information on key aspects
earlier. We can also rightfully draw some conclusions about covid, e.g.
looking at data, without needing to be an official authority. Google has smart
people, so this makes it all the more distressing.

------
northern-lights
The only Podcast app worth using.

I hope Google understands the slippery slope they are treading and its
implications and consequences.

~~~
salicideblock
I disagree, I was on Podcast Addict and then moved to Pocket Casts and did not
look back.

Podcast Addict's UI was a bit too full for the simple use I do of podcasts.

~~~
tcharlton
It was (is?) a great podcast app for power users.

------
notRobot
I don't like this. Podcasts operate on open standards, anyone can launch an
RSS feed which can then be played on any app.

Banning this app is like banning web browsers because the allow access
"questionable" websites or banning search engines because they index such
sites.

I hate how much (dis/mis)information is being spread about COVID-19, but
banning an entire podcast app leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

------
beshrkayali
This is exactly why we should stop those megalomaniacs at Google (or other)
from taking over Podcasting... We don't want to repeat the same RSS mistake
again.

If you respect and enjoy podcasts, don't use google apps.

Edit: my recommendation is AntennaPod. I used to use and love PocketCast until
NPR effed it.

------
ezoe
>has been suspended on the grounds that some of the podcasts it indexes
reference the coronavirus but aren’t approved by government entities or public
health organizations.

I don't know. The google should ban itself for they indexes reference the
coronavirus but... oh well.

------
database_lost
Wow, what a shitty move... Even if this is an automated process, this is still
shitty. This app is one of a select few I think work perfectly, as it does
exactly what I want it to do. It was also the first app I paid for since it
was so good.

------
bob1029
Given how much corporations pull the strings in America, how far away are we
from China's authoritarian policies, especially as they relate to freedom of
speech?

Other posters have rightfully pointed out that the internet is indeed open and
free (for the most part), but good luck getting all of your friends to agree
to use your new DIY whatsapp clone. Effectively, everyone who doesn't know how
to standup their own website is completely at the mercy of these technology
companies now.

Furthermore, the channels of communication most people use are now being
forced through these tech companies because of recent events. The amount of
control sitting under Google at this very moment is sickening.

Seriously think about it. If Google went completely AWOL, how much damage
could they do to the world? How much control do they actually have over every
Android handset and web user experience? I feel we need to start looking at
Google in terms of the worst-case scenario, and then start planning policy
around that. There is just too much at stake now.

------
drevil-v2
This is so scary. Any dissent is being deprived of oxygen.

------
mcintyre1994
Do Google offer a more censored version of Apple's Podcasts index? My
favourite podcast app on iOS (Overcast) uses Apple's index as its source for
search/recommendations (though obviously you can add any other feed yourself)
and there's heaps and heaps of non-Government approved podcasts on the topic.
If you run a Podcasting app on Android, does an index even exist that you can
use and remain compliant?

Whatever index they use on podcasts.google.com is full of the same, so I'm
leaning toward no. [https://podcasts.google.com/?q=covid19&hl=en-
GB](https://podcasts.google.com/?q=covid19&hl=en-GB)

It sounds like it is the indexing that's the issue here. Worth noting that if
they ever crack down on Podcast apps being able to play non-indexed content
they'll wipe out the whole Patreon economy around podcasts, which relies on
sharing private feeds with subscribers.

------
welcome_dragon
Another thread with a different source here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23219438](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23219438)

This one seems to make me think that the app itself (or its play store
listing) maybe has terms in metadata (to help with searching in the store
maybe?)

------
raverbashing
> to remove references to COVID-19 and keywords related to COVID-19 from the
> app

Wait. Is this from the app apk or from dynamic content displayed on the app?

If it's the former, it's fair enough, if it's from the latter it's just
another SNAFU by Google.

~~~
gwright
Their automated system/review process is broken with respect to apps that
render user generated content.

I've had several requests from Google over the last couple of years to make
changes to my app to remove user generated content that is being rendered in
the app. Sigh.

------
jlkuester7
Yet another example of the dangers of handing Google a monopoly on Android app
stores. If you control the means of distribution, you can control the content
of what gets distributed. It is time for some anti-trust action here!

In the meantime consumers should support other app stores like
[https://f-droid.org/](https://f-droid.org/).

I highly recommend the open source AntennaPod podcast app:
[https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.danoeh.antennapod/](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.danoeh.antennapod/)

------
gundmc
Looks like this is finally being sorted out. Tweet from Hiroshi Lockheimer an
SVP at Google (which puts him in the top ~12 execs at the company):

Apologies to Podcast Addict fans today. We are still sorting out kinks in our
process as we combat Covid misinformation, but this app should not have been
removed. Carry on with your podcasts, folks! ️

[https://mobile.twitter.com/lockheimer/status/126255336932064...](https://mobile.twitter.com/lockheimer/status/1262553369320648704)

------
plorg
I love Podcast Addict to the point of signing up for Patreon to support Xavier
with a monthly donation. I'm all for doing thoughtful moderation to prevent
your system being gamed by malign actors, but Google is clearly in the wrong
here, and their implied policy of moderating with as few humans as possible
means that a standout app is taking fire for a situation it could not possibly
be accountable for.

------
huffmsa
Timing is suspicious, Google is finally beginning the final phase of Play
Music shutdown, which means Google Podcasts will be the new way to access
podcasts.

Because it makes a ton of sense to move music to YouTube music, but the
podcasts to something entirely different.

They're blindly stumbling around making sure the public will think they're
pretty deserving of any and all antitrust hammers than swing their way in the
near future.

------
bbarn
COVID-19 is the terrorism of this generation. It's the anything goes, doesn't
matter how fair, as long as it's because COVID.

~~~
smt88
Terrorism became a US obsession because a little over 3,000 died on our soil.
Covid-19 will kill 100,000 or more.

The fear is justified and the extreme prejudice against Covid-19
misinformation (most of which has an agenda behind it) is warranted.

This particular case may go too far, but that has no bearing on whether the
other efforts against misinformation are too extreme.

~~~
jl2718
What is the agenda?

------
xerxesaa
Like many others, this is also my favorite podcasting app.

Just a couple of weeks ago, I was using this exact app to listen to the
"Making Sense" podcast by Sam Harris, on the topic of covid-19. This is
clearly not a government source, but as usual, Sam probes with some of the
most intelligent, nuanced questions on this topic. It would be sad to see
discussions like these get suppressed with the rest under Google's policy.

I've been a Pixel/Nexus user for about a decade. I'm feeling it's finally time
to get out of Google-land and move to a more open phone with F-Droid. I don't
trust Google to use their power fairly. Any recommendations for devices?

------
Danbana
Apple denied an update for one of my apps because in the What's new text I
said "In the quarantine we've learned to make friends with bugs in the home,
but in the app they must be CRUSHED" They said "Inappropriate references to
the COVID-19 pandemic"

------
cannedslime
I really hate how Google and Facebook have become "Ministries of truth".
Especially since they are some of the most agenda ridden, scummy companies in
existence. And you can down vote me straight to hell and back for that
statement, it doesn't make it any less true.

~~~
pinopinopino
Me too, makes me want to puke. I hate companies like this.

------
bitcrazy
I hadn't seen this discussed yet, but _how_ did Google know that Podcast
Addict was indexing corona-related content? What was the mechanism that
triggered the ban? The developer's twitter said that he didn't include any
corona keywords in the play store metadata, nor in the source code. The
consensus seems to be that some automated system was too aggressive in
banning.

My best guess is that the source for the info used to ban PA would be the
reviews, i.e. someone posted a review mentioning "great podcasts about corona"
or something. But I can't imagine it's that simple, because then I can just
put "corona" in any review and get somebody's app banned.

Unless Google has some other way of tracking PA's content?

------
jakub_g
@dang: the URL of the article is [https://reclaimthenet.org/google-play-
suspends-podcast-addic...](https://reclaimthenet.org/google-play-suspends-
podcast-addict/) \- not apple.news which is mere redirect.

------
tehjoker
This is my favorite app. I even got the paid version with no ads. Is there a
way we can continue to support the developer? The app is so good and non-
commerical. :-(

I definitely agree that these enormous platforms should not be allowed to
censor us. It's highly authoritarian that the monopolist owners of huge
platforms can just shut off dissenting voices. (After all, what else does it
mean to only allow government sources that so often lie as in the case with
masks or with the safety of reopening?) In any case, you can't stop the
conspiracy theories from being promoted by shutting off podcasts when the
president of the US is promoting some of them. News is gonna cover it
regardless.

------
pinopinopino
I might be bitter, but I have little love for corporations and their role in
the public debate. And I abhor that they play moral compass. Call me a cynic,
but that is really beautiful and bold of them. Don't pay taxes, evade worker
laws and be cynical enough to proudly present how diverse you are and at the
same time let your workers rot in the warehouses (I am looking at you AWS).
"Look at the blind, talk to the deaf, listen to the mute and prey on the
weak!" seems to be there motto.

The quicker multinationals like this are broken up, the better. For me
personally, this is another reason to try to not use Google or Alphabet, it is
not easy, but not impossible (yet).

------
tiborsaas
Is this a desperate attempt to fix fake news? Or are they obeying some
government order?

------
sohamsankaran
If anybody here knows Hiroshi Lockheimer (SVP platforms), please ping him
about this.

------
grumple
This is a huge part of the reason why I think we should go with mobile-first
web design rather than build native apps that have to go through these stores.
I have to build and deploy a mobile app on iOS and Android for work and it's
a) a pain in the ass and b) we're at the mercy of these two megacorporations.

If you can get by without a separate mobile app, do so. And if you need some
functionality, consider pushing for that to be a part of the web standard and
contributing to whatever projects can make that functionality accessible
through the browsers.

------
microcolonel
It's sad to see an American company stooping to basically tin-pot levels of
disrespect for human rights.

Contact the FTC, because this is an example of Google leveraging a non-arms-
length arrangement to interfere with and exclude competitors to their own
products _Google Podcasts_ and _YouTube_ which directly violate the policy
they are applying to Podcast Addict.

There is no legitimate business function served by this inconsistent conduct,
and it looks like a textbook case of single-firm anticompetitive conduct.

------
joshuaheard
It's time to regulate Google, Facebook, and Twitter as Common Carriers. They
can control the pipes, but not the content flowing through them, like the
phone company.

------
tomcooks
Use f-droid and install antennapod.

------
raphaelj
I had the same issue. I developed a legit and anonymous contact-tracing app
[1], and there is no way I can easily distribute it on the app stores as
Google and Apple unconditionally ban any app that makes any reference to the
current pandemic.

[1] [https://github.com/RaphaelJ/covid-
tracer](https://github.com/RaphaelJ/covid-tracer)

------
Thorentis
They should ban Chrome from the Play Store because I can access non-approved
Covid-19 content through it.

I say this sarcastically now, but web browsers will definitely become tools of
censorship in the near future. Chrome itself will start blocking non-approved
content. The Internet will no longer allow the distribution of any and all
information, but only what is "approved".

------
fencepost
I haven't seen this mentioned, but if this was the result of an automated
process with no human review, do apps from com.google.* have a hardcoded
exemption? Is there a low paid outsourced staff somewhere that provides the
same exemption function? Are there any examples of Google's automated
processes banning any of their own apps (or the entire account....)?

------
cube00
I'm impressed they actually gave a reason, what happened to "please RTFM for
our terms and conditions" and "sorry I have given all the information I have,
there is nothing more I can do, appeal denied"

Example:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23223560](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23223560)

------
arda_demirtas
This is what happens when you give a company/person to control your
everything. Stop selling your data without actually selling.

------
jbj
Although you sometimes have to manually copy the RSS feed in, SoundWaves is
not bad at all:
[https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.bottiger.podcast/](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.bottiger.podcast/)

I am actually curious if any of you have other recommended apps from F-droid

~~~
frosted-flakes
Sadly, SoundWaves is super buggy if you have a larger font size set, and it's
auto-playlist function is super annoying.

I prefer AntennaPod, another open-source app podcast app that's much less
opinionated and has a few more features (but not bloated like most podcast
apps).

[https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.danoeh.antennapod/](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.danoeh.antennapod/)

It's also available on the Google App Store.

I like how both of these apps actually let you manually set the RSS address,
because most don't.

------
pgt
Does anyone at Google realize how toxic this is for their brand? When I see
stuff like this, as a developer I think:

\- 1. Wow, I'm never building an Android app if I can build a web app instead.

\- 2. There is no way I am _ever_ switching from an iPhone to an Android phone
if apps get censored like this (although I'm sure Apple does similar things).

~~~
SpaceManNabs
I find point #2 confusing. Doesn't iPhone have stronger restrictions on what
can be installed as an app?

------
lordgrenville
Like others in this thread, I use this app every day. Just a few weeks ago I
was thinking about how much benefit I've gotten out of it and decided to get
the paid version to give something back. On the rare occasions when I've had
issues, my bug reports have gotten quick, friendly and useful responses from
Xavier.

------
mikepechadotcom
I hope Progressive Web Apps will disrupt the App store/Google Play store and
will decentralize app distribution again

------
kwhitefoot
I would be quite happy for Google to disappear. I'm beginning to think that
anyone who works for it should consult their conscience.

Podcast Addict is not only the best podcast client but one of the best apps
available.

Sorry I don't have anything substantive to add to the conversation, just
wanted to add my vote for Podcast Addict.

------
fasteddie31003
So would they have banned an app that told people to wear masks when the CDC
and WHO said they were not effective? I proudly went against government advice
then and plan on doing a lot of things against government advice in the
future. This pandemic has highlighted the rot in government institutions.

------
dreamcompiler
Google is under a great deal of scrutiny by governments right now. Their
collective fight-or-flight behavior has kicked in and they're starting to
exhibit some pretty crazy behavior.

There's never been a better time to excise Google from your life, or if you
work there, to excise your life from theirs.

------
orbifold
I used to think the internet was this great place resistant to censorship and
government intervention. Instead you now have to tip-toe around and every
comment ist tied to your real identity forever. At least I‘m using Apple, so
pissing off Google won’t mean I can’t use electronic payments.

------
_cs2017_
Seems like it's back up, with no changes to the app:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bambuna.po...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bambuna.podcastaddict&hl=en)

~~~
vipa123
Good news!

------
voldacar
> What Google is asking of Podcast Addict would be comparable to Google asking
> a web browser app to remove references to all the websites and social media
> posts that reference the coronavirus unless the reference comes from an
> official government entity or public health organization.

Give it a few years

~~~
m-p-3
Or asking reddit to censor content and keywords when displaying user-generated
content while using their app on Android.

This is unhealthy behavior towards the open web, which Google seems to work
aggressively towards its full control through web browser, ads, and cloud
computing.

------
villgax
Google's own stuff doesn't filter content from non-govt sources, guess it's
time to suspend?

------
scep12
Seems like a mistake by an automated system. It's a bummer that there's
infrequent mixups like this, but I do wonder what the alternative is. YouTube
faces a similarly hard moderation problem. There's nothing they could do to
appease even just 90% of criticisms.

------
bdibs
This is obviously overreach in my opinion, and (tangentially) might explain
the bump in installs for my podcast player. I had a feature on COVID, guess
I’m going to remove that... (I know that doesn’t protect the app from removal,
but could delay it, I don’t know)

------
swiley
Google is behaving pathologically and directly attacking the dialectic. They
are quickly becoming one of the most harmful software vendors in the US.

Continuing to use their software and services in any way is _extremely_
irresponsible. Deplatform now!

------
dreamcompiler
Pretty ironic given that an "official government source" advocated the
ineffective and dangerous drug hydroxychloroquine and suggested people inject
bleach into their bodies.

Edit: Changed hydroxyquinone to the correct hydroxychloroquine.

~~~
lbeltrame
Where is the proof of inefficacy? For the record, there's no proof of efficacy
either, because all the trials done that prove or disprove efficacy of
hydroxychloroquine were flawed in one point or the other (at least the ones
I've read).

To give an answer to this endless debate, a proper, randomized clinical trial
is needed. And the conditions set correctly, too: lopinavir and ritonavir
were, per NEJM, not successful, but a later study in Lancet showed that
administration at earlier time points (within 7 days of symptom onset) might
be working and needs more investigation.

I know Novartis is running a trial, and so is U of Minnesota[1] which has
finally completed enrollment and will release results after peer review.

Oh, and more on topic, it looks like Twitter has blocked a legitimate page of
the Canadian part of the same group of trials[2].

[1] [https://covidpep.umn.edu/](https://covidpep.umn.edu/)

[2]
[https://twitter.com/DrToddLee/status/1261442201369939968](https://twitter.com/DrToddLee/status/1261442201369939968)

~~~
dreamcompiler
> Where is the proof of inefficacy?

It doesn't work that way. New drugs are assumed ineffective until proven
otherwise. A government official with no medical training recommending an
unproven drug based on a few anecdotes is the height of irresponsibility.

~~~
lbeltrame
Currently the studies can't tell if HCQ is effective or not because all of
them have been wasted opportunities for many different reasons, from too few
patients, to absence of controls, to too late administration (the NEJM paper
and the Lancet paper on lopinavir/ritonavir tell important lessons on this
topic). We're in the "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
territory.

I would say HCQ is a "lead" in the pharmacological sense (after all there's an
effect in vitro), but of course there's no guarantee it will work properly
(work as in "higher efficacy than placebo or other treatments") in vivo.

The reason for my comment is that the announcement by the "government
official" (who was not the first, the first being the eccentric Dr.Raoult)
turned what should have been scientific debate into a political flamefest (at
least in the media). And science (aka, proper, randomized clinical trials) got
lost in the way (at some point the U of Minnesota trial struggled to get new
people).

I personally don't have any particular love for HCQ: chances are, like
remedisivir, that if there is an effect, it is small. But I want to point out
that so far science is still out on this one.

~~~
dreamcompiler
> I would say HCQ is a "lead" in the pharmacological sense

Agreed. I hope it gets proven effective too. This is a hot button issue for me
because a family member needs HCQ for lupus and now cannot obtain it because
of the statements of said government official. His words have caused actual
harm, and this isn't the first time.

------
emerongi
Has there been any scientific assessment of how powerful Google is compared to
governments?

Governments in general seem to be lagging hard behind advances on the net.
More and more power is ending up in the hands of companies.

------
SquareWheel
Update:
[https://twitter.com/lockheimer/status/1262553369320648704](https://twitter.com/lockheimer/status/1262553369320648704)

------
mirimir
There seems to be this mistaken idea that smartphones are like small PCs that
can make phone calls. But they're really far more like gaming consoles.
They're pretty much locked down.

------
airocker
Google Anthos is an attempt to do the same with business software? Soon, if
you have to list your business software in Anthos store, you will be at mercy
of Google.

------
superkuh
This problem has a simple solution. Don't host your stuff with giant
corporations who's only motivation is avoiding conflict and making profit.

~~~
progre
Asking a non-dev user to manually download and install an APK might be a
_simple_ solution, but so impractical that it's almost useless in my opinion.

------
burnett2k
The main thing I miss from moving to iPhone from android was podcast addict.
It was such a good app. Can't find anything near as good for iPhone

------
Pxtl
... I switched to podcast addict after giving up on Google ever getting their
heads out of their own butts on GPM and Google Podcasts.

Now they're banning it???

------
emiliovesprini
Aren't podcasts essentially audio files over RSS?

Broke: culture war over general purpose computation.

Woke: culture war over general purpose content distribution.

~~~
leshenka
There are now podcast distribution services where you can host your podcasts
and there are several things wrong with them:

\- as a consumer, I am expected to install _every_ podcast application that
hosts podcasts I like.

\- they usually don't expose RSS feeds because god forbid someone uses a
third-party, general-purpose, RSS-based podcast application.

------
thefounder
If you like appstores you have to like censorship as well. Welcome to the
future of the World Not so Wide Web

------
jgurewitz
This is terrible, I've paid for the paid version for a while and have been a
big fan of Podcast Addict.

------
throwaway55554
So is Google's _own_ podcast app similarly banned? This is really quite
pathetic.

------
chungus
Ah man, this is one the few apps I use daily. Even remember the guys name,
Xavier something.

------
ge96
If we have the app already, it will still work right? Damn that's brutal.

------
typenil
A solid open source phone can't get here soon enough.

------
wolfgke
The author has to blame himself that he is selling his app in the Google Play
store. Then, of course, the author is exposed to Google's despotism. Sell the
.apk somewhere else.

------
pcdoodle
What were the offending podcasts?

------
benbristow
So Reddit has /r/conspiracy that can be accessed through the app, should that
be removed?

~~~
postsantum
Google routinely bans reddit clients for ability to access NSFW pictures

~~~
benbristow
Firefox lets you access Pornhub.

Why is that not banned?

------
jl2718
That’s fine. Now they are no longer protected by section 230 of the
Communications Decency Act.

------
dwardu
What a load of garbage, next they'll ban overcast because they let people
subscribe to RSS feeds, and some people have hard left/right wing podcasts, or
anything you want to see that's not mainstream.

------
happppy
#boycottGoogle

------
RosanaAnaDana
fdroid

------
sdan
Original link: [https://reclaimthenet.org/google-play-suspends-podcast-
addic...](https://reclaimthenet.org/google-play-suspends-podcast-addict/)

Weird that Apple does this proxying... not going to open up that News app.

~~~
mosselman
This isn't what phishing is. You might not like it, but that doesn't make it
phishing.

~~~
JadeNB
Your parent post might have been changed, but it currently says 'proxying',
not 'phishing'.

~~~
mosselman
It said 'phishing' yes.

Parent could have posted something along the lines of 'ah yes, phishing is
something else', but ah well.

------
VMisTheWay
Good news, it's not Apple, so you can still easily download and install the
app.

The bad news is Google is acting like Apple.

------
katktv
I just noticed that this is the same shit right wing organization that
conveniently protects alt-right stuff when it gets banned from somewhere. Can
we please not promote this kind of stuff here?

Edit: to back myself up.

Here is this website standing behind authoritarian right-wing government doing
antisemitic dogwhistles: [https://reclaimthenet.org/hungarian-government-
facebook-over...](https://reclaimthenet.org/hungarian-government-facebook-
oversight-board/)

Here it is protecting conspiracy theorists against "censorship":
[https://reclaimthenet.org/youtube-demonetizes-sgtreport-
trur...](https://reclaimthenet.org/youtube-demonetizes-sgtreport-trureporting-
tin-foil-hat-realist-news/)

Here it is covering the ban of a known right-wing troll (also piss drinker)
Joey Salads: [https://reclaimthenet.org/twitter-suspends-joey-
salads/](https://reclaimthenet.org/twitter-suspends-joey-salads/)

Here it is supporting a fringe far-right social network Gab a bunch of times:
[https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-biggest-mastadon-
node/](https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-biggest-mastadon-node/)
[https://reclaimthenet.org/new-gab-decentralized-
version/](https://reclaimthenet.org/new-gab-decentralized-version/)
[https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-chat/](https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-chat/)
[https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-pro-benefits/](https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-
pro-benefits/)

It's just so much consistent support for basically fascists on this. Propping
this website up is dangerous.

~~~
ripdog
Really disturbing that I had to scroll right to the bottom of the page to find
someone questioning the source of this.

While obviously Podcast Addict does not deserve a ban, the sheer number of
people in this thread advocating unrestricted speech around COVID-19 is
thoroughly disturbing. This despite the carnage that the disease is wreaking
in the US and UK right now, and the fact that conspiracy theories spread on
Google and Facebook platforms have certainly added significant fuel to the
fire of COVID-19.

Even down here in NZ we're dealing with cell towers being set alight due to
batshit conspiracy theories spread on Facebook and Youtube. I'm generally very
much pro-free speech, but this is one thing that needs to be stamped down on
fast, mainly due to more and more americans gathering in large protests and
spreading the virus.

~~~
lbeltrame
> While obviously Podcast Addict does not deserve a ban, the sheer number of
> people in this thread advocating unrestricted speech around COVID-19 is
> thoroughly disturbing.

Are you sure that advocating a "stamp down" won't throw away the baby with the
bathwater? In my country, a lot of now very legitimate theories (thrombosis
and treatment with heparin, convalescent plasma therapy) were slammed by
certain very prominent experts at first ("baloney", "colossal idiocy"). What
would've happened if Twitter or Google decided to remove the "controversial"
theories?

Also, Twitter now is blocking an URL of a legitimate university promoting a
trial with hydroxychloroquine. As you can see, to remove the "batshit
conspiracy theories" we are also removing good science.

~~~
katktv
>Also, Twitter now is blocking an URL of a legitimate university promoting a
trial with hydroxychloroquine.

What university? What sources do you have on that?

~~~
lbeltrame
McGill University in Canada.

Source:
[https://twitter.com/DrToddLee/status/1261442201369939968](https://twitter.com/DrToddLee/status/1261442201369939968)

~~~
katktv
Works fine for me. Sounds like automated filter kicking in, which is a double-
edged sword, but in itself doesn't say anything abt Twitter's stance here.

------
RIMR
Good. When private companies see that something they are doing or enabling
could lead to preventable human death, they have a responsibility to act on
it.

If an app in their marketplace is helping spread misinformation about a public
health crisis, that app can and should be removed from Google's marketplace.

America is a capitalist society. If you're going to do business in Google's
ecosystem, you have to follow Google's rules. Google isn't tolerating COVID-19
misinformation, so if you're an app publisher in Google's ecosystem, you
should adopt a similar stance.

Human life is on the line here. Google is doing the right thing.

~~~
type0
> Human life is on the line here. Google is doing the right thing.

Right thing for their bottom line, you can continue to use Google Podcasts
though

------
LatteLazy
Freedom of speech is a bitch but a necessary one...

------
vnchr
At what point is this wrongthink under the guise of public safety?

------
lez
If there was a red button that kills the Internet, Google would press it.

~~~
ABoldGambit
So would I, at this point.

------
solarkraft
Meta:

Why are you posting an Apple News link that is a redirection to the original
source, instead of the original source?

------
coding123
The have been discussing covid 19 on my radio, fuck I guess that means they
are going to impound my car.

------
scarface74
So what’s the problem? HN users always complain about Apple’s “walled garden”
and how much better Android is because users can sideload apps.

(Note sarcasm)

------
swagatkonchada
I'm pretty sure POTUS doesn't approve google. Please ban yourself.

------
ecmascript
This is disgusting, Google has become disgusting..

This is exactly why Google and maybe other large corporations absolutely need
to get split up. I hope Trump takes action against US tech companies as he
have said he would. Very few things would make me happier as an european.

~~~
enos_feedler
This actually feels like an intentional move by Google to NOT get split up.
Don’t worry government, we got your back! We’ll ban things that aren’t
approved by you!

~~~
mschuster91
No, it's a service to public health to take down _crap_. People spreading
"covid19 is fake" propaganda are literally getting themselves, their parents
and friends _killed_. Freedom of speech also comes with responsibility - the
responsibility of not endangering others with your speech. Similar as inciting
hatred and screaming "fire" in a crowded restaurant will earn you jail time,
people should be happy it's only their YT channel killed and not their sorry
asses landing in jail!

I would have no problem if covid19 was taking out only those propaganda
spouting idiots from the gene pool, but unlike let's say people ignoring gun
safety laws and pointing a loaded shotgun at their feet which then goes off
and blasts their feet away but like as with antivaxxers, anything involving
infectious diseases also endangers innocent people. Mothers, fathers,
children, the weakest of societies.

I am incredibly lucky to not have lost someone close to me to the 'rona, but
other people I know have not been that lucky. So every time I hear someone "we
gotta open up for the economy!!!" I'd like to throw these idiots in a jail
cell and let the keys sink to the bottom of the Mariana Trench out of empathy
for those affected by the reality.

~~~
rndgermandude
You do realize that google's policy isn't just targeting the "corona is fake
news" crowd, right? The wording says any app "referencing COVID-19" not
published/endorsed by the government or a public health organization got to
go.

If google applied this consistently it should have to ban the following apps:
Google Chrome[1], Firefox[1], Opera[1], Google[2], Google News[3], Google
Podcast[2], Netflix[4], Youtube[3], Play Store[2, 3], any news/journalism
organization (including CNN, PBS, NYTimes, BBC (uk), ARD/ZDF (de)), reddit[3],
twitter[3], facebook[3], and plenty plenty more.

But at least Jair Bolsonaro is still free to put out fake news apps if he
wants because he is head of the government...

[1] Allows access to sites such as google[2].

[2] Allows access to "fake news". And it has a covid warning section linking
to (thereby endorsing) non-approved sources such as wikipedia.

[3] Displays/Links to a lot of non-government approved journalism and
"journalism".

[3] e.g. [https://www.netflix.com/de-
en/title/81273378](https://www.netflix.com/de-en/title/81273378)

