
Ask HN: Freelancers quoting large jobs - newzucanuze
Hello fellow freelancers of HN. One thing that I always struggle with is estimates&#x2F;quotes for large unwieldy projects. In particular, there are 2 opposing forces:<p>Force 1: Even for very well-defined projects, it&#x27;s extremely difficult to accurately predict how long a large project will take. Not to mention all the minor additions and adjustments that will be made along the way. It seems like giving a hard quote is next to impossible and the way to go is an estimate for hourly work.<p>Force 2: Charging hourly. I typically avoid charging hourly, instead giving quotes based on my internal rate of $100&#x2F;hr. Although charging hourly can be preferable, see issue 1, I feel that most clients would balk at such an hourly rate and would prefer to pay some offshore developers $30&#x2F;hr and hope for the best. On the other hand, if I quote $10,000 for a job that&#x27;s expected to take 100 hours, they will generally feel the quote is fair.<p>How do you go about quoting&#x2F;estimating large projects?
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jamestimmins
Your value isn't just the code you write. One of the biggest benefits you have
(presumably) is that they can easily communicate with you and might even be
able to meet in person. Frequent communication and the ability to manage
expectations is why you can justify $100/hr or more. You're not just providing
them with code; you're providing them with confidence that you are a low-risk
option.

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siquick
Unfortunately, this is an age-old problem. If you don't think they like your
hourly rate then charge per milestone.

Milestone A = $2500

Milestone B = $2500

Milestone C = $2500

Milestone D = $2500

Include an exit clause for both parties after each milestone in case the
project just isn't working out (i.e. you're spending way more time on it than
you expected).

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jaredcwhite
"clients would balk at…"

Your goal is to find clients who will value your work, your time, your
reputation, and the value you bring to their business. I have no qualms
quoting a high hourly rate because I see it as a way to weed out bad clients.
If that proves challenging from a sales standpoint, perhaps raise your rate
and then come up with some BS reason why you can offer them a discount (which
brings you back to the rate you actually want). They think they're getting a
deal, you're still happy with your rate, everybody wins. :)

~~~
BrandonBradley
I've tried the 'x% discount for y guaranteed amount of hours' pitch before. It
doesn't really work; most potential clients are still thinking about the
'$z/hour' that you told them before the pitch.

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taprun
If there is great uncertainty, both you and your client will likely find great
value in pursuing a roadmapping and discovery mini-project. [0] Also, don't
forget that even big unwieldy projects can be broken into smaller more
manageable milestones/sub-projects.

[0]
[https://taprun.com/newsletter/12#question](https://taprun.com/newsletter/12#question)

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fakeElonMusk
Nothing you can do about "would prefer to pay some offshore developers $30/hr
and hope for the best" and you don't want that client anyway. I only do hourly
work and have never had any issues - mostly because projects are never really
well defined and clients know that (good ones at least). Maybe try a weekly
rate? Seems to work for some people.

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csomar
> I feel that most clients would balk at such an hourly rate and would prefer
> to pay some offshore developers $30/hr and hope for the best

Then you are not providing enough value. Or if you are providing $100/hr
value, then stick to your guns. I had a client return and I charged him almost
x5 the American rates (I'm offshore!). His US consultancy could not deliver.

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burakaltin
I try to calculate my hours then multiply it 1.5. But it's never easy. Clients
want to change a lot on the way. Everytime I have to explain them and revise
my offer. I try to put milestones to keep track.

