
Beekeeper Who Leaked EPA Documents: "I Don't Think We Can Survive This Winter" - zoowar
http://www.fastcompany.com/1709448/interview-with-a-bee-leaker-beekeeper-tom-theobald-discusses-the-epas-bee-toxic-pesticide-co?partner=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+fastcompany%2Fheadlines+%28Fast+Company+Headlines%29
======
pigbucket
It makes a good story if you can spin this as a case of EPA ignoring its own
scientists as evidenced by a leaked report. But what the report (a public
document according to Theobald) actually recommends is not that the pesticide
be denied registration, but that it should only be sold with a warning.

"EFED [Environmental Fate and Effects Division of the EPA]expects adverse
effects to bees if clothianidin is allowed to drift from seed planting
equipment. Because of this and the uncertainty surrounding the exposure and
potential toxicity through contaminated pollen and nectar, EFED is
recommending bee precautionary labeling."

 _Grist_ , _Fast Company_ , and _Wired_ have all gone with the "Leak Reveals
EPA ignoring its own Scientists" story. But that story is nonsense and
distracts from the real problem; namely, the fact that the so-called leak
actually only recommends precautionary labeling. What really needs to be
leaked is the memo that explains why EFED's recommendations are so weak in a
case where high toxicity is known to occur.

~~~
Alex3917
The people buying the pesticides aren't the ones bearing the costs of the
adverse effects so whether or not there is a warning label is completely
irrelevant.

~~~
pigbucket
I think you're thinking that a bee precautionary label would say something
like "Warning: Dangerous to Bees," in which case non-beekeeping farmers might
not care. I suspect the label would instead mandate that users apply the
product in a prescribed manner in order to minimize drift (one of the known
causes of toxicity to bees). Pesticides typically come with fairly detailed
instructions for proper use. My point, though, was that mandating such a
label, in this case, is still not an adequate response on the part of EFED to
the problem.

~~~
stuaxo
I'm not sure a label mandates much without the stick of stuff penalties behind
it - we've seen how well self regulation works before.

~~~
pigbucket
I think you're close enough here to the presupposition of both my comments
above as makes no difference.

That's why I said the EFED recommendations were too weak; that's why I called
it an 'inadequate response.' Let me say it again explicitly: A warning is not
good enough. Let me clarify again the original point: The real scandal here is
that EFED thinks a warning is good enough.

------
bigmac
I grow tomatoes on my fire escape in downtown San Francisco. I had to self-
pollinate them with an electric toothbrush. I'm pretty sure this is due to the
natural lack of bees in San Francisco, not because of the bee die-off due to
this chemical.

So my question to the more agriculture knowledgeable HN'ers: how hard would it
be to do self-pollination at scale? I imagine the answer is "impossible." Is
that too pessimistic?

~~~
barnaby
It's "possible" ... I saw a program about CCD on PBS. There are parts of China
where they've killed off all the bees in traditional farming areas. The video
showed entire fields of workers holding jars of pollen and taking feather
dusters, swathing them in the pollen, then waving them around the flowers.

Very labor intensive.

~~~
cryptoz
That sounds like an excellent use-case for armies of flying nano-bots. Well,
what are we waiting for?

~~~
gloob
Well, first we're waiting for someone to invent flying nanobots. Then we're
waiting for someone to successfully convince the public that flying nanobots
somehow won't kill us all.

------
julian37
I came across this very informative article while googling for the name of the
pesticide:

<http://www.thenhf.com/article.php?id=598>

According to this, issues surrounding bee deaths and clothianidin as well as
its predecessor imidacloprid have been known since at least 2003.

------
Mz
Excerpt:

 _Now the stakes are higher than ever. Tom Theobald's honey crop this year is
the smallest he's seen in 35 years of beekeeping. "This is the critical winter
for the beekeeping industry. I don't think we can survive," he says. "If the
beekeeping industry collapses, it jeopardizes a third of American
agriculture."

That's because the giant agriculture industry couldn't produce nearly as much
with native bee pollinators alone; instead, the industry relies on beekeepers,
who rent out their bees to pollinate everything from strawberries and
blueberries to squash and cucumbers._

~~~
araneae
_This is the critical winter for the beekeeping industry. I don't think we can
survive._

As a beekeeper, this phrase has meaning that might be overlooked by someone
who is not one. It may seem obvious, but the most difficult time for bees is
during winter; almost all hive deaths occur during the colder months. In a bad
winter, some beekeepers will lose up to 75% of their hives. And hives only
"reproduce" in summers when they're very strong. If this year is a bad one...
they could literally not survive.

~~~
delackner
It sounds like you have some understanding of the way these hives are run.
Aren't commercial "hives" stored in boxes with vertically slotted plates that
the hive grows on? During winter why not just move the hives into a heated
room with plenty of bee-friendly nutrients?

~~~
araneae
I come at it from a non-commercial perspective; at most I've had two hives at
a time. I was mostly speaking from personal experience of winter losses; it's
really heartbreaking.

Commercial hives are indeed relatively mobile, as they're temporarily stored
on trucks to move from field to field. It's possible that it's simply
untenable to keep bees indoors on a large scale. Hives that are too close
together for long periods of time will attack and raid each other. There
simply might not be enclosed spaces large or affordable enough to hold
wintering bees.

But someone who does commercial bee-keeping could probably give you a much
better answer.

------
mey
Original article on the story: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2001067>

------
davidj
well the people who were saying it was the cell phone towers now look very
stupid. I think there was even a pseudo-scientific "study" "proving without a
doubt" that the cell phones were causing the problem. "They use it to sense
the direction of the earth's magnetic field and their ability to do this is
compromised by radiation from [cell] phones and their base stations. So
basically bees do not find their way back to the hive."

