
JFDI Britain: You don't need a business plan to #startupbritain - jot
http://jfdibritain.com/
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iuguy
I used to spend about 3 days every year writing a business plan. Everyone used
to tell me how much I need one to ensure the direction of the company is set.

It's 80% bollocks, if you'll pardon my french. What you need to do is ship,
measure and respond. The numbers in a business plan never reflect reality and
there's too many things that you wouldn't see coming that'll affect you.

Where business plans come in useful is in getting your idea down and making
sure you've done everything to confirm that it's a viable startup. Once you're
up and running you should be reviewing what you're doing on a regular basis -
you don't need a business plan for that.

~~~
ashleyw
_What you need to do is research, ship, measure and respond._

FTFY. Research first, and make damn sure there's a viable market there before
you sink time into the idea. This is essentially what a business plan is, a
documented view of the market and how you're going to make money from it.
Without it you're not really building a business…you're building an app.

~~~
iuguy
> Research first, and make damn sure there's a viable market there before you
> sink time into the idea. This is essentially what a business plan is, a
> documented view of the market and how you're going to make money from it.

I'd disagree on a number of points. A business plan is something that gives
you an idea of where you've been, where you're headed and what the strategic
objectives over the next period (normally a year) are going to be, who's
responsible and how that will be executed. For a first year, it's largely a
case of documenting what you're going to do and how you're going to do it,
feeding in from market analysis and all the other researchy stuff before you
start.

The research is a fundamental part of shipping - you can split it out if you
want, I don't, mainly for two reasons:

1\. You don't actually have a startup until you ship.

2\. See 1.

Likewise, writing a business plan without a business isn't quite a fools
errand, but isn't the best use of your time because at that point in time you
do not have a business, and the minute you do everything will change.

It's great to do the research, in most cases it's essential, the things you're
describing (view of the market and how you'll make money out of it) are things
that feed into the plan and are actually more important than the plan, not the
plan itself.

~~~
ashleyw
I think we just have different definitions of "business plan".

My 2-10 hour and often single page 'business plans' involve diving head-first
into the market and finding out who I'm going to sell to, how many there are
of them, what competitors I have, what the ad rates are, etc. With this basic
info I can take a grounded and unbiased look into the validity of the concept.
You can have the best idea in the world, but if there isn't a market for it,
there's not much point in pursuing it if your goals are financially driven.
"Build it and they will come" and "Build something you'd want yourself" both
aren't good enough reasons alone to sink any amount of time into an idea.

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IanOzsvald
One obvious point - startupbritain is about general startups (there's no
requirement for tech-only startups on their site). @jot's jfdibritain has a
decidedly tech focus, it doesn't help with e.g. manufacturing (when someone
wants to make something physical), retail (regular selling/buying like most of
the country are used to) or other conventional routes. Maybe the sites aren't
trying to achieve the same thing?

~~~
jot
I put the site together with all kinds of startups in mind not just tech.

Why not create other kinds of businesses through this approach?

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stevekennedyuk
I agree with the sentiment of JFDI Britain, however it depends how you "JFDI"
... if you can bootstrap and do it all yourself, then fine, JFDI. However if
you want to attract finance from Angels, VCs or even get loans from banks
you'll need some kind of justification and that requires a business plan.

I'm a firm believer that a business plan changes as soon as you get any money
(and the earlier stage the business is, the more guesswork and unrelated to
reality the business plan is). However by doing a business plan, it shows
you've thought about how the business is going to work.

Building a business around technology and going "we'll build it and they will
come" is in the most part, complete b*llocks. You need to show that you've at
least thought about how revenues will be generated, if you haven't why are you
running a business. Unless you're a charity (or a not for profit) your only
reason for running a business is to generate shareholder value. That may sound
corny, but that's why companies have shareholders!!!

So JFDI is fine, but prove it's fine and that it's not just tech for the sake
of it.

~~~
jot
Many angels do not require a business plan and other sources (such as
customers) are even easier to get money from. Few angel investors will invest
in a business that has a plan and nothing else to show.

JFDI Britain is about taking the first steps. It's not focused on technology
businesses. It's not about "build it and they will come". It's about getting
on with creating something of value, making sure it is of value and making
money from it. Once you have done that and can repeat it you have a business
and you can chose to grow it however you like.

There are very few businesses that need a significant amount of cash to start
but many that need it to grow.

JFDI is the proof.

~~~
ColinHayhurst
Actually, I beg to differ. Most angels do require business plans. The only
exceptions I have seen are the really smart investors particularly in the tech
space.

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ColinHayhurst
Well said. Business plans suck time and energy. They are usually required by
time wasters (investors you should avoid anyway) and waste valuable time (when
you could be iterating).

~~~
rwmj
Perhaps not a Business Plan, but spending a day planning how you'll do
business is a good idea and not one that "sucks time and energy".

Let's say [as a concrete example] you're going to open a hairdresser. You need
to sit down and work out your fixed start up costs (shopfitting, deposits,
licenses), your monthly outgoings (electricity, rent), and what you can expect
in income. You need to know the location, the foot-fall, the number of
employees, and add in contingencies.

All of that is going to take you a day or so to work out.

This is not a "Business Plan"(TM) with exponentially increasing graphs and 5
year projections, but it's a sound concrete Plan for a Business which lets you
know if it's worthwhile starting off.

This is not a high tech Hacker News example, but much of the same fundamentals
apply for any business or project.

~~~
tomjen3
A hairdresser is not a startup, and since it is startupbritain we are talking
about your example does not apply.

~~~
chris_j
The trouble with the word startup is that it means different things to
different people. Taken literally, it could mean any company which has just
started up. That's not what the word usually means when used on HN, of course.
I recall this pg essay <http://www.paulgraham.com/startupfunding.html> which
notes the difference between being a band that aims to sell a million copies
of a song versus a band that is content to play at weddings and bar mitzvahs.
A hairdresser is more likely to be the latter than the former. It can still be
a startup but it's not a "Startup".

~~~
timthorn
I'd still take the position that a hairdresser could be a Startup (as well as
a startup). There are a few well known brands that I expect originated in that
fashion(!) and there's always room for further innovation.

~~~
bootload
_"... I'd still take the position that a hairdresser could be a Startup (as
well as a startup). ..."_

I doubt it. Calling a hairdresser a Startup, is about as convincing as saying
Detroit innovates in transport with efficient engine technology.

The key difference, despite its past, Detroit _can_ create new innovative hi-
tech products if requried. [0] I dare say it would be harder for hairdressers
around the world to do so in a business that is not technology based.

[0] Sebastian Blanco, _"Detroit 2011: Li-Ion motors says hello to first Wave
sales, promises Inizio by mid-summer"_
[http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/11/li-ion-motors-wave-
sale...](http://green.autoblog.com/2011/01/11/li-ion-motors-wave-sales-inizio-
detroit-2011/)

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samengland
Great response - if you want an in-depth look at what's inherently wrong with
'StartUp Britain', then look no further than this
[http://postdesk.com/debates/why-startup-britain-is-
nothing-m...](http://postdesk.com/debates/why-startup-britain-is-nothing-more-
than-a-government-backed-link-farm/)

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Super_Jambo
So why on earth would I trust this thing with my twitter account?

edit> and indeed what does it need access to my account for?

~~~
jot
We want to know who makes submissions. We've also got some features planned
that write access will be useful for.

