

Why Google Should Learn to Love Black Hat SEO - grovulent
http://danielhaggard.com/157/why-google-should-learn-to-love-black-hat-seo/

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lazylland
One of the cool things that Google provided during their SearchWiki experiment
was the [x] button. An option to remove a site from further search results.

This could easily give some power back to the users to not get hassled by such
spammy site, as well as give Google some inputs to take action against such
sites.

Bring the [x] button back, Google :)

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sorbus
The author seems to have missed the core argument about spam websites: They
reduce the quality of search results and therefor devalue google and other
search engines as a way to find information.

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grovulent
Not sure I understand your complaint. The idea is that these sites get de-
indexed after the grace period. (i.e. they will no longer show up in the
search results).

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sorbus
During the grace period they would be decreasing result quality. I don't care
if all the junk cluttering up my searches will be gone in a few months,
because I'm not going to wait a few months to try to find the information I'm
looking for.

Allowing money to influence rankings (selling "mappings" is basically selling
pagerank) would also potentially decrease quality; I am much, much more
inclined to having websites ranked only by their quality and the quality of
information in them, which is the way search should work anyways.

Oh, and a way that this could be broken: One person wants to be at the top of
the results for a single, fairly common, search term. They start a bunch of
"funnel" sites (hundreds, maybe), and manage to get most of them into the top
~40 pages[1] for that search term. Then, in the marketplace you've proposed,
they buy up all of them from themselves, at as low a price as possible. The
resulting increase in pagerank (which they're buying from themselves, so only
paying google for the privilege) pushes them up to the top of the rankings for
that high-value search term.

[1] Random number. Could be higher, could be lower.

~~~
grovulent
With respect to your first point - the idea is that these spam sites are
cluttering up things already anyway. A result which has them de-listed after
three months is better than the current situation. You could possibly find a
way to eliminate the grace period altogether if you could find a way to
demonstrate the value of particular keywords to those who would buy them. All
google would really need to do is release more information about keywords. And
think - they only keep that information guarded now because they want to make
life harder for spammers.

With respect to the second point - again, the answer is to keep incentives
properly aligned with desired outcomes. In this case I suggested that the
price for a mapping be increased if the marketer already has sold to a stable
of quality sites (as determined by other aspects of the PR algo).

With respect to your third point - I agree these sorts of issues will have to
be sorted out. This particular one would be easily avoided though - just place
constraints on how many domains they can register as funnel sites. Yes they
can try to game - but now being caught has a real risk - the loss of their
legitimate income.

But there is no doubting that there will be real difficulties of the sort you
mention. Nevertheless, I think the general gist is good - however the final
form, black hats need to be incentivised to work with the system, not against
it. And this can only be achieved by bringing them into the fold somehow.

~~~
notahacker
pitches to rank perfectly fine for the search queries before the spam sites
push them down the index. The black hat SEO guy therefore isn't adding any
value to the unsophisticated end user he targets at all. Better solution:
anyone pitching SEO services to webmasters on the basis of their competing
sites' higher rankings gets their competing sites booted from the index.

Even if your solution were to miraculously yield better results it would still
create a massive PR problem for Google, who have always purposefully kept paid
and organic search rankings separately. Frankly I'd probably trust an index
that directly sold SERPs rankings more than one that deliberately facilitated
spammers acting as intermediaries.

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ericd
No, it's not a good idea for Google to let business owners buy these pages to
increase their own ranking - willingness to pay isn't a useful signal for page
relevance.

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ryanwaggoner
In what sense is putting up a simple website with articles (even poorly
written ones) about topic X, with a domain name and meta tags about topic X,
considered "black hat" SEO?

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grovulent
Because the content clearly isn't designed to add value. It just gets in the
way of what people are actually looking for. Then there is the use to which
these sites are put - which is explained in the article - to extort legitimate
websites that do try to add value.

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duskwuff
The content on those sites is also frequently scraped from other, more
legitimate sites. Next time you see a Wordpress spamblog, try doing a (quoted)
Google search for some of the post content.

Another tactic I've seen, simpler than the one described in the linked
article, has simply been to link to a target site from all of the SEOer's
content-scraping blogs. The core principle of what makes this all black-hat
SEO is the same, though: they're building sites with the intent to manipulate
search engine rankings, rather than sites which anyone would want to visit.

~~~
grovulent
True - this one wasn't though. It was content created by cheap labour. Scraped
websites are less of a concern because they are easier to detect
algorithmically. Mind you Google doesn't seem to have entirely solved this
problem either.

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joecoleman
Google is already in the process of doing this. It's their company, they have
access to all the data, why would they need individuals to ferret out
underdeveloped keywords for them?

See recent patent: [http://www.itproportal.com/2010/6/17/google-patent-looks-
eme...](http://www.itproportal.com/2010/6/17/google-patent-looks-emerging-
trends-web/)

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richcollins
_They should make it a central pillar of their entire strategy_

Judging by the recently quality of their results, they already have

