
Memoir of Growing Up Fat Forces France to Look in the Mirror - SREinSF
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/world/europe/gabrielle-deydier-france-obesity-on-ne-nait-pas-grosse.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
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VeejayRampay
I'm French and I hope we do not align with the American cultural doctrine of
self-reinforcement, which has, I dare say, slowly drifted towards a worrying
train of thought were everything is equal, any opinion has value, any choice
you make is to celebrated.

By all means, I don't see shaming as the sign of a healthy society and I hope
for people never to have to suffer humiliation or belittling, but there should
be, in my opinion, a certain level of acknowledgment that being overweight has
dire consequences for not only one's health on the middle to long term, but
also terrible side-effects in terms of public health and the economy at large.

As we're spending dozens of billions caring for diabetes, cholesterol,
hypertension, heart attacks and the myriad of other diseases that correlate
heavily with the lack of exercise and an unhealthy diet, we're neglecting
research, schools and the social fabric that used to make France a great
country to live in.

The ultimate irony is that we used to have a formula that worked just fine to
gift us with one of the highest life expectancies in western societies a few
decades ago, before we decided that Burger King, Coca Cola, Subway, McDonald's
and KFC really were what we had been missing for so long.

~~~
qntty
On average, obese people are a smaller burden on the health care system
because they die quickly (from a heart attack or something similar) rather
than the drawn out deaths that people of average weight have. End-of-life care
is by far the most expensive (health care wise) phase of a person's life.

~~~
FooHentai
Not true. First off, premature death from obesity-related illnesses, before
retirement age, means that individual contributed less than a full working
life into the system i.e. if you drop out of the workforce at 40 due to poor
health, there's ~25 years of productivity and tax income that will not be
realized.

Second, if you have the image of obesity related deaths being a sudden heart
attack and dropping dead that same day, you'd be wrong. Diabetes, cancer,
heart disease (within the spectrum of which a heart attack is only one likely
consequence and sits alongside angina, strokes etc), these are long drawn-out
declines that many obese people will suffer.

Third, accommodating obese patients requires significant specialist equipment,
all of which places a burden on the system which would not be present if obese
persons were not present. Specialized ambulances, MRI machines, gurneys,
hoists, widened doorways etc.

“Obese men rack up an additional $1,152 a year in medical spending, especially
for hospitalizations and prescription drugs, Cawley and Chad Meyerhoefer of
Lehigh University reported in January in the Journal of Health Economics.
Obese women account for an extra $3,613 a year. Using data from 9,852 men
(average BMI: 28) and 13,837 women (average BMI: 27) ages 20 to 64, among whom
28 percent were obese, the researchers found even higher costs among the
uninsured: annual medical spending for an obese person was $3,271 compared
with $512 for the non-obese.”

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/04/30/obesity-
no...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/04/30/obesity-now-costs-
americans-more-in-healthcare-costs-than-smoking/)

~~~
qntty
These are all interesting points for researchers to consider. I'm not a
researcher so all I can do is read their conclusions and they say that
lifetime costs for obese patients are still lower despite all these factors.
You can read more here:

[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080204212858.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080204212858.htm)

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yodsanklai
> citing a book whose French author described with horror seeing Americans
> eating alone, or at any time of day.

> “France is a very rules-based society,” Ms. Saguy said. “There are rules
> about eating in France, about mealtimes, and you need to follow the rules.”

I would call that BS. French people eat whenever they want and nobody cares
really. That being said, my personal experience is that French (and Europeans
in general) are still much more conscious of what they eat than Americans,
which is probably why they are thinner. I was surprised while living in the US
to see even very educated people feed their kids with junk food and sodas.

However, this is gradually changing. More and more people eat junk food (e.g.
Mac Donald's is extremely popular in France) thanks to food corporations
propaganda and lobbying. Not surprisingly, obesity rates are increasing. Small
relief, obese people won't be discriminated against when we're all fat.

~~~
trgv
> More and more people eat junk food thanks to food corporations propaganda
> and lobbying.

I think there are simpler explanations. I imagine people like the way it
tastes plus it's extremely cheap and takes very little time to prepare.

~~~
lawpoop
Doesn't account for why this would be happening more recently.

In the past in Europe, was fast food actually slow, expensive, and not that
tasty?

~~~
drewm1980
Your question assumes the existence of fast food. The closet thing would
probably be a bakery or chocolatier, but they don't really compare...

~~~
lawpoop
So fast food restaurants came into Europe without a concurrent marketing and
advertising push? They just built the restaurants and people came, because it
was tasty, fast, and cheap?

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bsaul
As a french, I don't think the blame is upon fat people, but more about obese
people. I think the general view on obesity is that it is a health issue you
can clearly do something about with just a little bit of will. I have no idea
if this view is correct or not from a medical standpoint though.

On the other hand, i am a bit skeptical about the "you're fine no matter how
you are" mentality in the US regarding obesity. It _is_ a health issue, so
it's great not to blame people but saying "you can stay like this for how long
as you want" is also a bit weird imho...

~~~
aklemm
"it is a health issue you can clearly do something about with just a little
bit of will" <\- That a little will can solve this seems obvious for thin
people, but it doesn't reflect the reality of weight loss. In fact, this is
the core of such discrimination; it seems so obvious to a thin person that the
fat person is riddled with character flaws. Read up. Look around. If it was
that easy, we wouldn't have this problem.

~~~
ekidd
> That a little will can solve this seems obvious for thin people, but it
> doesn't reflect the reality of weight loss.

As somebody who has lost weight and kept it off for years, I agree that it
comes at a price—I need to be conscious of how much I eat every day, and
devote most of my calories to relatively "satisfying" food. Basically, it's
the food equivalent of needing to live within a budget.

The total cost: maybe 10 minutes a day, and I have to be careful about certain
indulgences. And I have to commit to this _forever_.

Not everybody would find this equally easy, and some people have complicating
factors such as eating disorders.

My private theory—based on having "budgeted" what I eat for years—is that a
lot of modern processed food is high in calories, very tasty, and not very
filling. It can be surprisingly hard to fight this. I guess that this is what
some people mean by a bad "food environment."

~~~
aklemm
IIRC, keeping the weight off for years puts you among the 5 percent that have
done so successfully. That is remarkably telling, I think.

"My private theory—based on having "budgeted" what I eat for years—is that a
lot of modern processed food is high in calories, very tasty, and not very
filling. It can be surprisingly hard to fight this." <\- Absolutely this.
Policy-wise, there couldn't be a better place to start. Some would seem to
advocate more shaming, marginalization, tough love, etc. and that's just
absurd.

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normalthrowaway
Sorry, I’m struggling to see the problem in this. Unless you’re genetically
predisposed to being overweight, it is caused by diet and lifestyle. We know
this. We have all known this for a long time. If you are actively choosing to
avoid changing your diet and lifestyle, and the COST of your decision will
eventually become something your employer and your fellow citizens must pay,
to the point that it will lead to significant strain on finances, why should
they support and embrace your behavior? Should we also fake sympathy for
smokers?

This isn’t a race or gender issue. This is a lifestyle issue. I know my
opinion is politically incorrect, but this is what a lot of us are actually
thinking. Even if we openly say the opposite.

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valleyer
I find it interesting that you took time to mention the possibility of people
being "predisposed to being overweight" yet proceeded to make no other
affordance for that possibility in your comment.

Is it not possible that most people who are overweight are so predisposed?
This would make it not a "lifestyle issue".

In fact, given all the societal and health problems associated with being
overweight, I find it hard to assume that many people would be "actively
choosing" that path.

And yes, many of us who dislike smoking _do_ feel sympathy for smokers.
Nicotine is addictive. This is why we spend money on public health programs to
help people quit. Same with other kinds of drug addicts.

~~~
Simon_says
There probably is a genetic component to obesity, but that is only a thin
sliver of the problem. People 200 years ago had indistinguishable genetics
from today yet obesity was rare enough that it was a curiosity. Something has
changed in the last 200 years and the list of suspects is basically down to
diet and/or exercise.

I feel sympathy for nicotine addicts, just as I do for the obese. It's hard to
pin down exactly how, but society (meaning some combination of their parents,
peers, education, and government) has failed them. Focus on genetic components
to obesity isn't technically wrong, but it doesn't help anybody get better.

