
Interview Humiliation - mberube
http://deliberate-software.com/on-defeat/
======
mavelikara
Almost everyone on this site seems to have gone through similar interview
experiences one time or the other. Our profession can get rid of this malady
only with collective effort, as the author suggests:

    
    
        Lastly, this story fills me with an overwhelming desire 
        to never continue the cycle of abuse. I strive every  
        interview to try to respectfully work with the candidate, 
        and never humiliate them. I want every person I interview
        to leave feeling loved as a human and respected, even if
        they are completely incapable to perform the duties of the
        job.

~~~
hsuresh
I agree. It looks like most interviews are aimed at finding "defects" in
people - why they would not be a fit, than looking for reasons what the
candidate can bring to the company/team if they were to join.

------
carlosrg
He should have walked out the interview the very moment they made the "Can't
you afford a real machine?" comment. Even if you pass the interview, do you
really want to work for/with these assholes?

~~~
dllthomas
While it's not a good sign in any event, depending on how it was delivered
it's probably not enough to motivate burning bridges on its own.

------
binarymax
_I never found out if I had done something to make everyone so angry. I now
suspect that they were massively turned off by a host of things._

It's not you, it's them. You are lucky you got out of there, you would have
been miserable.

~~~
zamalek
Not enough people realize that interviews are a two-way interaction. Steve is
lucky that he got the valuable answers without ever asking the questions.
"Company A" failed that interview dismally and should be embarrassed. I would
have shown _myself_ out of the door given pretty much any of their remarks.

------
thedz

         This presentation is bullshit. You have no evidence,
         nothing valuable to show, just spurious subjective
         opinions. You've put up a straw man and now are trying
         to knock it down assuming we are idiots. I've seen 
         enough.
    

Whoever said this is a dev I'd refuse to ever put into an interview again.
Hell, I'd be reluctant to put this dev into any meetings requiring
communication skills.

~~~
volume
Stated in this exact way, word-for-word is quite extreme. Could the author be
paraphrasing?

I'm probably nitpicking like a nerd. Even if he were paraphrasing it wouldn't
take away from the overall message.

~~~
JackMorgan
I wrote it down the quotes four years ago, just because I knew I'd want to
write about it at some point. I didn't want to "get back at them", just turn
it into something good.

------
Paul_S
This is such comic book villainy I just don't believe it happened as
described. I wonder how the other side would describe it.

~~~
jbob2000
Yeah, 25 minutes late set the tone for that interview. I don't really care
what the reason is, I'm going to be pissed if someone is 25 minutes late for
anything.

~~~
carlosrg
Being half an hour late is not really an excuse for their sociopathic
behaviour.

~~~
jbob2000
Yes, because it happened exactly as written, and totally wasn't embellished at
all.

~~~
carlosrg
Do you have any special reason to doubt his story so vehemently? Should we
dismiss any workplace abuse story as embellishment? Bosses and coworkers are
always friendly and professional?

I know people that have suffered boss/coworkers bullying and I find this story
plausible. And I know this industry and some people can be very inmature and
unprofessional.

~~~
hsod
As the root poster said, it's comic book villainy. I believe that he had a bad
experience and that the interviewers were rude but the story as told doesn't
pass the smell test.

------
jere
Excuse the language, but fuck those people. If that's the way they're going to
treat potential hires, they're going to have a bad time.

------
jawns
What do you think of the practice of ending an interview earlier than
scheduled when you're quite sure that the candidate is not a good fit for the
position?

The rationale I've heard is that it saves both you and the candidate time.

But in practice, during the times when I've seen it done, the candidate ends
up feeling really hurt.

~~~
draw_down
Ugh, that sounds exactly like something an engineer would come up with. Saves
time, right? It's more efficient so it's better. Except it doesn't even
pretend to give the candidate a chance to save face, it's just naked
rejection. But why should that matter, it's just emotions, it's not rational.

------
chucksmash
These guys sound like movie villains. They may be programmers by trade but
they belong to no profession.

I have a very difficult time imagining that, as the top comment says, "almost
everyone on this site seems to have gone through similar interview
experiences." During the dozen or so interviews I've personally done, I've
seen interviewers arrive late and unprepared or unqualified to conduct the
interview occasionally but I've never been treated discourteously.

Maybe the job market in 2003 was such that some people felt like they could
get away with more in the name of "evaluation?" No clue, but seriously -
planned evaluation or not I'd have certainly pardoned myself from the
interview prior to the group lunch. Sticking it out to be avoid burning
bridges only makes sense if you are being treated with the modicum of respect
a human being deserves. Some bridges deserve to burn.

Edit: not about a story that occurred in 2003, so feel free to disregard my
idle speculation about the state of the job market.

------
JoeAltmaier
Sounds like a bad cultural fit. The OP was professional, talented, polite,
educated and fit to lead a team. The interviewers were ... something else.

~~~
vonmoltke
No, just a bad culture.

------
S4M
I personally would have left the room after the comment on the Linux laptop.

~~~
Turing_Machine
My thoughts exactly (and I switched to Mac as soon as OS X came out).

I understand why the OP doesn't want to name the company, but I can't help
wondering if these guys are even still in business.

Edit: saw the OP's comment below about them going in the hole and having to
lay off 3/4 of their staff.

------
Bigsy
Why not name the company? I'm going to be honest..I don't think this actually
happened.

~~~
albertoleal
>Why not name the company?

I'm going to guess OP may be 'liable' for damaging the company's reputation.

~~~
kelukelugames
No, not liable if this is true. The recruiter being fired is easily provable.
It will add weight to the rest of the story.

------
rwallace
There are times when it is necessary to recognize that we are interacting with
the environment, not in our capacity as logical problem solvers, but in our
capacity as social apes.

"This presentation is bullshit. You have no evidence, nothing valuable to
show, just spurious subjective opinions. You've put up a straw man and now are
trying to knock it down assuming we are idiots. I've seen enough."

At this point, the correct response is "Yeah, I've seen enough too. This
interview is bullshit. I'm surprised you clowns are still in business. Good
day." And pick up your stuff and walk out.

Obviously that won't get you the job, but nor will anything else; in reality,
as very often happens, they made their decision no later than ten seconds
after you walked into the room. (Anyway, would you even want to work for
people like that?) Continuing to stammer meaningless-in-context words about
tech stuff will just result in damage to your self-esteem, which can have
significant negative consequences in your life for years down the line.

------
kelukelugames
When it's this bad you have to name names. I know it's hard but the bridge is
already burned.

------
RyanRies
Even if the author was just paraphrasing/dramatizing the interviewer's
comments... I could not imagine being treated like that in a job interview.

------
theshadowmonkey
These guys were pure jerks. What person thinks its 2003 when you have a Linux.
I love a Mac and use it on a regular basis, but Linux is the real machine.
That's where you get your hands dirty and learn the inner workings.

Yes, you treat the developer with utmost respect even when you know from the
start of the interview that they are unfit for the job. People change over
time and you never know how your company might meet him in the future. Make
him an offer or not, you have to let the candidate leave with a good feeling.

I have interviewed at quite a few places including startups. But, never
anything like this.

------
mellery451
Classless and unprofessional in all respects. We can all learn by their
example how _not_ to treat candidates.

------
jmcnevin
I find this story highly suspect, unless the writer happened to find a company
run primarily by sociopaths.

------
hippo8
This sounds highly improbable, especially the "Oh, wow, Linux, what is this,
2003? I'd hoped I'd never have to see....." comment, I honestly can't believe
there are any developers would make such a comment.

The OP should name the company if this interview was this terrible.

~~~
JackMorgan
I don't want to say. Its been almost four years since then. A friend started
working there for a different team, and he intimated the team I'd interviewed
for was strongly anti-TDD, and very pro-Python. Even he laughed at me for not
using a Mac. Recently they expanded too much and laid off 3/4 their
development staff including my friend. In all, it sounds like it wasn't a
great place. But I don't want to publicly call out a whole company of hundreds
of developers because I got stuck with a few bad apples.

I do wish I know who my interviewers were, I want to meet them now and ask
them what was up and what they thought of the whole thing. I do remember a few
in the room seeming pretty embarrassed about it all, but I think the main
three antagonists were their bosses or something.

~~~
hippo8
If you tell HN how they looked and the company name, we can go on a witch-hunt
:p.

But in all seriousness, sorry you had to go through something that terrible.
Like someone mentioned already in this thread, you should have left the place
when you heard the linux comment. Come to think of it, I'm happy for you for
not getting stuck in an obviously poisonous environment.

------
xlm1717
I'd be willing to play devil's advocate and say it was mainly the time that
peeved them (peeved them enough to fire the recruiter for giving everyone the
wrong time), but they really should be professional enough to not turn into 5
year olds when they get annoyed.

------
ejk314
What's the appropriate response as the interviewee in that sort of situation?
They've completely turned you off to the idea of working for the company,
should you just excuse yourself and end the interview?

------
ousta
it is obviously a dubious story. Wouldn't the first thing you would say as
soon as you enter the room is that you got an invitation to 9h30 and not 9h?
Then what did op reply to their questions such as 'can't you afford a real
machine'? he just mubbled? I would reply very harshly to such comments and
show them who is the weakling.

While they were total assholes, you were not in a desperate enough situation
that would justify you to say amen to whatever bullshit they say.

~~~
moogleii
It's dubious because he didn't respond as you would? I never thought I'd be
reminded of victim blaming here, yet here I am. Unless you personally know the
OP, you have no idea what the OP's personality is like. Sure, I personally
would tear them a new one (civilly) if they treated me like that, but I have
non-confrontational friends that would be terrified to escalate the situation
like that.

------
volume
Assholes can be unavoidable. You may land a job at a point where there are
none. Over time they hire more assholes.

Get the offer from the assholes, and use it as a bargaining chip.

------
theflork
shame on them. doesn't sound like a place any self respecting developer would
want to spend time at. what company was it?

~~~
varjag
By the sound of it, a D&D club at junior high.

~~~
kaptain
Let's not insult junior high D&D clubs.

------
stupejr
Get baited hackernews, shitty to see this in the top feed. No way in hell this
happened. If it did the OP wouldn't hesitate to name the company.

------
geebee
The behavior of the interview team was truly appalling here, and this was a
good post. It's important to be aware of just how bad things can get in
technical interviews.

However, much as I'm always game for a good horror story, I'm more interested
in the damage that the ordinary, polite, courteous technical interview/exam
may be inflicting on people and our industry.

As I've posted in the past, I believe that tech interviews are essentially
entrance exams that software developers are forced to take over and over.
Actuaries, for instance, take exams on topics that correlate closely with
mathematics classes, like numerical analysis or vector calc and linear
algebra. These exams are recognized for what they are - rigorous entrance
exams to show competency in core subjects. We don't call these exams
"interviews" and leave it to an some dude who sits in cubicle D-12 to decide
how he feels like testing an experienced Actuary's understanding of
integration by parts today.

The reason I prefer to focus on the polite, respectful, professional
interviews is that it helps us see the fundamental problems with our approach,
rather than the misbehavior that can occur in any interview situation. I do
think that the intense technical interviews in our field have taken the place
of the bar, the actuarial exams, the medical boards. However, most
professional entrance exams adhere to a code of conduct - students have an
associated study path, they get a respected credential (reassuring their peers
and hiring managers that they really do possess this knowledge and ability),
they are aware of who their examiners will be and are assured that they
possess the proper credentials and expertise to conduit the exams properly,
fairly, and most of all, _consistently_.

I really would like to see developers, as a profession, determine how our
competence will be established relative to our peers.

Now, one more thing - I said that I prefer to focus on the polite interviews
than the horror stories, but I absolutely do acknowledge that a process like
tech interviews may be unusually prone to these horror stories. In short,
horror stories like this may not be entirely orthogonal to the core issues,
they may very much be a common side effect.

Instead of highly respected practitioners and acknowledge experts sitting on a
board, we go grab a few developers and hope they know what they're doing. When
I defended my MS project, Berkeley didn't go out and grab a few people who
seem to know the industry well enough (uh, I guess, oh, he's busy, well, this
other dude seems pretty good, have him sit in) and have them decide whether I
would receive a degree. I'm not saying there is no variance among experts,
some may pass you, others may not, without question. But I could be certain
that the people on my committee were qualified to evaluate my work, that I had
rights as a student sitting for an exam, and I would receive a lasting and
meaningful credential with feedback (not just a "we've decided not to proceed
with your application at this time, but we'll keep your resume…).

With such a capricious and chaotic process, yeah, the sort of thing described
here is more likely to happen.

------
draw_down
All the usual cliches apply- you wouldn't want to work for them anyway, etc
etc

(Seriously though, a suit?!)

~~~
EliRivers
Exactly. What kind of schmuck wants to look like some kind of business
professional? What are you trying to do, give the impression that you put some
thought into your appearance and have respect for the interviewer's time?

A suit? Get with the programme; we have a strict uniform in this game and
you'd better not have the self-confidence or the sense of style to step
outside the uniform. We hire people who are just like us, and don't you forget
it. Monoculture and groupthink? Damn right. That's what we want.

~~~
bphogan
Exactly. The correct answer to "Why are you wearing a suit" should always be
"Why aren't _you_?"

Suit up!

