
My Seth Godin decline letter.  Thoughts? - bkj123
Below is my decline (form) letter from applying to Seth Godin's Alternative MBA program.  Did you apply?  why or why not?  what are your thoughts on the idea and Seth Godin in general?
---------------------<p>You are amazing.<p>I’m stunned.<p>Bowled over.<p>Amazed.<p>And optimistic about our future (and yours).<p>The applications I received were astonishingly good. Thorough and honest and clear and direct. They were motivating and demonstrated just how much people can do when they put their minds to it. I read every word of every application and I learned a lot.<p>If I had 60 seats, I still would have had too many people awe-inspiring applying. Unfortunately, I have nowhere near that, and so I had to make difficult, irrational and not particularly fair choices. Alas, I’m going to be unable to work with you in 2009. There are still interviews and such to go through, so I don’t have the final group selected, but I thought the fairest thing to do was let you know as soon as possible.<p>The good news, and I hope you think it’s good news, is that you don’t need me. As I said before, I have no magic wand, no secret recipe. Your decision to just make it happen, to push forward, to change... that was the hard part.<p>Go. Do that. Blow them away. I fully expect it will happen.<p>Thanks for taking the time and thanks for understanding.<p>Seth<p>PS I’m going to post on my blog about how stellar each of you are... and I’m linking to a Google listing of applications (all of them, accepted and not). If you don’t want to be seen by others, you should delete your lens (if you made one). But I think you should be extraordinarily proud of what you’ve built and what you’ve done... and you might even get a new gig because of it.
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brk
I'd actually be a little bit insulted to get that as a response. It reads like
a load of over-dramatized crap.

Part of what's wrong with so many of these internet-marketers is that
everything seems to be positioned as various degrees of "super rockstar ninja
greatness". There is never any bad, unmarketable, stupid ideas. IE: no one
wants to put their reputation on the line by making a potentially bad call.
So, he won't say that your proposal was disagreeable, only that other
proposals were even more "super rockstar ninja great".

IMO, if he actually had something great to offer and was bowled over-amazed-
stunned at just how great an idea was, he'd find a way to nurture that, not
blow it off.

~~~
swombat
It does ring a bit empty, doesn't it.

Bad move overall, imho. I've lost some respect for Seth Godin because of that
letter. A more normal rejection letter would have been more appropriate. This
letter makes him sound a bit too kitsch.

~~~
cstejerean
The letter looks very much like all of his blog posts, not sure why anyone
would expect anything different from him. I'm assuming most of the people that
applied to this program are frequent readers of his blog, and so hopefully the
style of the letter didn't seem inappropriate to them.

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webwright
Here's what I would have responded in Seth's shoes (note: I'm a big Godin fan
and think this is a killer opportunity but did not apply):

"Hi!

[this is a form letter- Given that I preach honesty in marketing, I figure I
owe you that!]

I reviewed your app and am declining you for this opportunity. Overall, I was
_incredibly_ impressed with the quality (and volume) of the applications.
Unfortunately, because I am just one guy, I had to read through them quickly
and go a lot on "gut feeling". I had to pass over some fabulous applications
in favor of some slightly-more-fabulous ones. I'm sure I declined some great
people. I'm sure I'll be interviewing some duds.

Due to the volume of apps, I can't send any personalized feedback on your
application. I really wish I had the time to, but a guy's gotta sleep. Thanks
again!"

------
ErrantX
too nicey nicey. It doesn't sound sincere to me.

When I was applying for jobs I used to get back all sorts of crap like this..
it's silly. One company got back to me within 24 hrs with a simple: "sorry
your not for us because xyz"

I reapplied instantly and in the "why are you applying" space put "because
your the first company not to reject me with complete bull and just gave me a
straight honest answer. I trust you."

I got the job too :)

Rule 101 of rejections: don't be nice. Be kind certainly but tell them where
they went wrong. They've already been rejected - sucking up helps neither
party....

~~~
nihilocrat
You got a rejection with _reasons_ on it?

I've always either gotten either "We are pleased you interviewed but we are
continuing the search" or no response at all.

Was I terrible? Was I awesome, but you cut me out for unfair and irrational
reasons? I'll never know, and never know how I can improve. Does a great job
of wrecking your psyche when you've been doing it for months straight.

~~~
jamesbritt
_I've always either gotten either "We are pleased you interviewed but we are
continuing the search" or no response at all._

The no response at all shit is lame. I've had that happen to me twice, and
it's just rude. Even a curt form letter is better than simply discarding a
person once a company decides they have no use for someone.

~~~
nihilocrat
The worst one was when the HR person just couldn't seem to tell me or send an
email. She kept delaying me telling that they hadn't decided yet, but she'd
have an answer by such-and-such date. Eventually she just stopped returning
calls.

I was at the point where it took me awhile (3 weeks?) to get the hint,
desperately clutching to any sort of lead.

------
puzzle-out
This sounds a little like being dumped along the lines of "its not you, its
me."

~~~
m0nty
It's not you. It's not me either! Isn't that aweseome? I mean, it's completely
stupendously awesome that we're both so amazingly awesomely cool but somehow
this thing just isn't working. I mean, _we're_ not working. Together, that is.
OK, so I found some other super-cool kids who are even more awesome, but that
doesn't mean you're not, and it doesn't mean that I'm not, just that we're not
quite so amazingly awesomely awesome as a team, which is why I've decided to
dump you. Well, not _dump_ you exactly, it's more like I'm deferring the joint
awesomeness we could have had for another day, when it will be even better.
Meanwhile, have a cookie.

~~~
melvinram
lol I love the cookie sentence.

------
macbeth4077
Everything Seth Godin writes is either unactionable, obvious, or wrong.

~~~
bobz44
I've heard this criticism of Seth a few times now. I don't disagree with the
statement... but it's also not exactly a strong criticism either.

His work seems to be mostly about making us rethink the way we approach
marketing, especially on the web. That is coming from the other end of the
"actionable" spectrum. It is a strategy, not a tactic. All the old tactics
still apply, but you use them for different ends.

His examples are, of course, simple and "obvious" in a style that many (myself
included) appreciate. I've found writing a series of succinct, obvious
statements that convey a greater wisdom is much harder than people give it
credit for.

And, like any exploratory thinker, I don't think Seth himself would claim he's
never wrong. It's all about if you can learn something about the
<i>approach</i> to marketing, not memorize a bunch of steps.

Definitely a fan, not a fanatic, but I've heard this point enough that I
wanted to state a counter.

------
pxlpshr
I had a friend who applied, it's not something I'd ever want to do. I think
Seth is a great motivational speaker and writer, but there are far more people
I'd want to give up 6 months with no pay to be mentored by from an
entrepreneurial standpoint.

Not to mention, I was pretty turned off from the whole thing the moment I read
the internship he was offering. It all seemed a little self-serving (with
kool-aid), and I get a little sick of MBA guys knocking MBA programs. Seems
like a shallow self-marketing gimmick...

(His blog is on my reader)

------
scott_s
The actual rejection is buried halfway through. Rejection or acceptance should
be in the first sentence, and the tone of how that sentence starts should make
it obvious which one it is.

------
tom_rath
Damn, that's condescending.

If it were delivered in person, I'd expect a lollypop and a pat upon the head
after hearing it.

------
Alex3917
I applied and got an interview. I sent in my application as a PDF, but I also
made this lens which Seth apparently liked:

<http://www.squidoo.com/Reading_Optional>

~~~
nihilocrat
I'm new to this term "lens".

It seems like it's just a fancy word for "how-to" or "neat bit of information
/ call to take some sort of action".

~~~
lurker
Godin's company is Squidoo. It's an odd little web page builder thing. A
"Lens" is what he calls a "page". Because if he called it a page, then no one
would care. Now almost no one does.

~~~
fallentimes
Be warned before you go there, Squidoo is the wikipedia of spam, advertising
and self promotion.

------
steveplace
I was waiting to see a link to an ebook you could buy at the end of the
letter.

~~~
blasdel
With testimonials, a GIF of a signature, and a paypal button!

------
bryawn
Let's face it, Seth has the cult of personality working overtime for him.
People will do whatever it takes to get some of the Seth magic to rub off on
them. He doesn't need to suck up to anyone and this letter proves that.

The sad thing is that he's only had one hit -- the idea of permission
marketing. From there on, everything he has done is vaporous Seth brand
building. I once sat in on a social media webinar with Seth and all he talked
about was permission marketing. I wasn't impressed. Same old stuff.

------
izak30
This sounds like Seth Godin trying to keep his "Tribe" Intact by not hurting
anybody's feelings.

~~~
nihilocrat
I always thought tribes were more in tune with brutally enforcing a hierarchy
through displays of fitness and hostility towards outside people and thoughts.

------
rmason
So apparently by the very act of applying to his program, that fact alone
makes me amazing. Not even close to buying it.

I think today I learned a lot more about this character than reading all his
books.

I think anyone rejected from his program really dodged a bullet. Can you
imagine a daily dose of this guy up close?

------
sammartino
He really is starting to lose it. I don't think he practices what he preaches
anymore. Yes, he'll answer an email, but ask for more than that and I can
guarantee what the answer will be.... Maybe he should just be "Authentic"
about it and do a blog post which says: "Look people, I am flattered at all
the requests and X, Y and Z's I get. But you probably don't know that it
amounts to many thousands of these a week and i just can't be now, what I was
then. The good news for you is that my authentic method works.... up to a
point... and that space is now open for you to take... Coz I'm just too big to
do it now, to be authentic that is.... it was fun while it lasted..."

How about that Seth?

Steve Sammartino - www.startupblog.wordpress.com

------
chris123
IMHO, Seth is over rated, that is unless you love boring articles and
consensus opinion.

------
edw519
Am I the only one who gets the feeling that an "Alternative colostomy" would
be more pleasant than an "Alternative MBA program"?

------
pclark
what MBA program?

~~~
brk
Seth has made the generous offer of allowing a select few people to work for
him. For free. In exchange, you get to be surrounded by His Greatness every
day. If you get accepted, don't forget to bring your lunch money and cab fare
as well.

While this sounds like a revolutionary idea, if you're willing to work for
free, and can sell yourself well (the two basic acceptance criteria for this
program), there is a high probably you can weasel yourself into some simialr
position a number of different places.

~~~
dgabriel
It is often referred to as an "internship." There is no way this can possibly
be comparable to an actual MBA, but I am biased.

~~~
fallentimes
Well Seth's specialty is calling things they aren't or making up superfluous
words when a simple English one just won't work for him.

------
omarish
So don't worry about working on his projects; work on your own and make them
better!

~~~
omarish
Because you know, you <i>are</i> a Rockstar&tm; developer!

------
mynameishere
He's basing this on one of the basic types of literary rejection letters.

------
dilanj
Poor guy can use some Valium.

------
tphyahoo
I got the same damn letter. I would be more interested in seeing your
application. Are you putting it up on squidoo?

~~~
bkj123
didn't put it up at squidoo. if interested, I just posted it to
<http://www.jonesinsight.com/alt_mba.html>.

~~~
pclark
thanks for sharing - good read. #5 was really inspiring.

~~~
bkj123
Thank you for the input.

------
Ardit20
It sounds like he is living in a fantasy land.

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clearlight
not so impressed with this!

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Dilpil
Yeah, Seth should issue an apology for being so damn nice. What a jerk.

