
Google can use Bluetooth to track phones even with Bluetooth turned off (2018) - ohmyblock
https://qz.com/1169760/phone-data/
======
phipples
In the bluetooth settings it literally states: "To improve device experience,
apps and services can still scan for nearby devices at any time, even when
Bluetooth is off." This can be completely turned off in scanning settings. The
article title is kind of clickbaity.

~~~
thefounder
I wonder, what apps and services it helps improve? Why would you want to turn
bluetooth off but not really turn it off?

~~~
izacus
Some uses I know about:

1.) Indoor location (uses beacons to improve accuracy). This is transparent to
app developers which used fused location provider and just results in very
accurate locations.

2.) Bluetooth fast pair - [https://developers.google.com/nearby/fast-
pair/spec](https://developers.google.com/nearby/fast-pair/spec) This is for
feature parity with Apple "magical" AirPod pairing. You open the headphone
case and immediately the popup appears asking you to connect them.

3.) Nearby APIs for device-to-device comms without internet
[https://developers.google.com/nearby](https://developers.google.com/nearby)

4.) Instant tethering for feature parity with Apple macos + iPhone tethering -
[https://support.google.com/pixelbook/answer/7504779?hl=en](https://support.google.com/pixelbook/answer/7504779?hl=en)

~~~
ttty
If I disable Bluetooth I don't expect these features to be working...

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markstos
The article says turning off Location History "cripples" certain features of
Android and Google.

That's a stretch. I have had Location History disabled for years and have yet
to notice what crippled experience I suffered from, but I did learn today that
my location is not being sent to Google when Bluetooth is turned off.

Disabling Location History seems like it has significant upside to me.

Think about it this way. If Location History had defaulted to "off" instead
and "on", would you have opted in? For what feature or benefit? With what
risks?

~~~
kilo_bravo_3
>would you have opted in?

Yes.

>For what feature or benefit?

By the time I pull into my driveway my garage door has opened and the lights
in my hallway have turned on.

If I'm working from home, my thermostat stays at its "comfy" setting. If I
leave the geofence between certain hours during the week it goes into "ultra
cheap-ass energy miser" mode.

When I am at a meeting, and I have another meeting in a different location, my
Maps application checks the traffic to the route and tells me if I have to
leave early due to congestion. This is especially useful for dentist
appointments made six months ago that have slipped my mind.

When I turn on my car and my phone connects, it knows if I am likely to be
heading to work or if I am heading home and will suggest the best of three
routes to take depending on traffic.

If I am somewhere and have an idea, I hold my smartwatch up to my face and ask
it to "remind me when I get to X to do Y" and then when I get to X a
notification pops up to tell me to do Y.

I get hyper-local weather notifications. Just 5 minutes ago on my smartwatch a
notification popped up saying that rain was starting. It then started raining.
There have been times when I have been outside not expecting rain, had my
watch say "oh man rain's a-comin!" and then I looked around at the clear skies
and said "nuhuh... I looked at the forecast today and there's no rain" but
then I went inside to check on the computer again and it started raining.

While driving I can just ask: hey give me directions to the nearest gas
station, and it will. No looking at screens required.

>With what risks?

None. There are literally zero risks. Evil Ruskie hackers could haxxor all of
my data and know that I go to work every (non-quarantined) day and go to
Safeway every Sunday afternoon, and it would not change or endanger my life in
any way whatsoever. Anything they could do with the data, they can do without.

~~~
myopenid
This kind of hyper-connected lifestyle seems..... kind of exhausting. Constant
barrage of information that you may or may not need; being reliant on many
bits and pieces of services that change all the time (when they drop out of
support or starts asking for money) in which you have to adapt or find
alternatives to.

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newscracker
Is this similar to Apple’s “off but not really off” modes for Bluetooth and
WiFi where the toggle in Control Center keeps them active for certain purposes
on iOS (and making it “really off” requires going to Settings)? Or is it
different from that? I couldn’t really distinguish even after reading this
article fully. The way to turn it off, described in the article, did seem very
messy, and as with Android, the steps depend on the device and what
(customized) Android it’s running.

I was so sick of this from iOS (because I don’t want WiFi to connect
automatically in a different location or at 5 a.m.) that I have shortcuts
readily accessible as widgets that turn these off, really off, when I want to.

~~~
nimajneb
My Pixel 3a XL does this with WiFi, I'm convinced it's never actually off. It
will auto connect to remembered WiFi networks even when I "turn WiFi off".

~~~
tjoff
Mine don't. Maybe Settings->Location->Wi-Fi and Bluetooth scanning is the
setting that does it.

There you can disable whether apps and services are allowed to scan wifi
and/or bluetooth even if they are turned off.

------
izacus
This is the exact same behaviour iOS shows - the BT stays on to allow for fast
bluetooth pairing, indoor precise location, nearby communications and a few
other things.

Last I checked the details, the data didn't leave the device but it was awhile
ago.

~~~
zepto
Except that it does leave the device with android

~~~
izacus
Can you link to some source? Last time I checked it didn't if Location History
was off.

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notRobot
> A third option on Android called “Device only” location allows a user to
> utilize only GPS to determine location, rather than “High accuracy,” which
> uses GPS, wifi, Bluetooth, and cellular signals. But even when a phone is in
> Device-only mode, beacon information is sent to Google when Bluetooth is off
> (though not when scanning is also disabled). If Location is turned off
> entirely, and then re-enabled, the phone resets to the High accuracy mode,
> making the setting hard to rely on.

This was removed in Android P, unfortunately.

------
ohmyblock
When you consider this fact together with news such as this one is when it
starts getting scary: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/nhs-
coronaviru...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/13/nhs-coronavirus-
app-memo-discussed-giving-ministers-power-to-de-anonymise-users)

------
fsflover
If you are tired of constant lies from Google Android, consider Librem 5 phone
by Purism. It has hardware kill switches and is based on GNU/Linux, not
Android.

[https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/](https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/)

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kwhitefoot
To paraphrase Arthur Dent: "This must be a meaning of the word off with which
I was previously unaware"

Both the title and _Google_ are misleading: Bluetooth is not off; it is not
participating in Bluetooth transactions but it is still listening.

------
WhyNotHugo
This is precisely why you shouldn't buy phones with an OS developed by a
company who's main business is tracking people.

------
pfalafel
> The Pixel 4 and 4 XL received generally positive reviews from critics [...]
> but were criticized for their poor battery life

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_4#Reception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_4#Reception)

------
zelly
I really got to get around to compiling one of those Android forks with
telemetry turned off. As much as people like to criticize G, at least they
released the code. The world would be a much worse place if both members of
the phone duopoly hid their source code.

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tgafpc2
I'm starting to think...so what? The ads I see are either comically irrelevant
or easily explained by the search terms or video I selected. This targeted
claim is just to dupe their customers.

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kerng
Given the big security threat Bluetooth provides, this seems pretty bad. If
someone wants it off, there is a reason they want it off.

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LatteLazy
It amazes me there are not more scandals yet with Google senior staff abusing
the incredible data access they have. When it happens at the NSA, they can
cover it up. But Google must be working very hard to keep it hush hush.

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tracker1
They do the same thing with wifi.

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acruns
Shocked! I wouldn't really care if they were upfront about it, but when they
try to hide it, it makes it adversarial and since I consider myself technical,
I must do as my cat does and make it stop.

~~~
culopatin
They are upfront about it, it’s right there in the settings. When you first
set up a Google phone, it will Warm you that WiFi does scanning for location
services, and the Bluetooth setting is in the same page.

~~~
dingaling
And does it tell you how to totally disable them?

~~~
baobrain
It asks you during setup if you'd like to disable it.

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Causality1
What's all this data about me worth to Google? It can't be that much. I've
never bought something from an internet ad in my life. With the whole world
going SaaS I'm amazed there's no "Google Private" subscription where I can pay
them five dollars a month to give me what they already do without collecting
data about me.

Frankly I think personal data is every bit as much of an addiction as heroin.

~~~
catalogia
> _What 's all this data about me worth to Google? It can't be that much. I've
> never bought something from an internet ad in my life._

Just spitballing here, but it seems conceivable that information about you
could help them improve their behavior modelling and consequently help them
advertise more effectively to other people.

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rvz
Well if this comes as a surprise to you if you're a regular here, perhaps you
need to read this article in its entirety, because it's clear that a sentence
like "Privacy by Google" is a valid oxymoron.

Luckily I have a throwaway dual SIM dumbphone to use, so I should be
covered...

