

Ask HN:  Please review my DropZap web demo.  It's written using GWT. - amichail
http://dropzap.appspot.com

======
blasdel
You absolutely need at least one carefully expository level to _demonstrate_
the game mechanics. Play _Wario's Woods_ for the NES, and you'll know what to
do. Your textual description is awful, but I'm not sure how you could do it
better -- so ditch it! Show, don't tell. Tell them just enough to inspire them
to try it.

Graphics. You don't need 3D anything, you don't need to turn the blocks into
animal species with a story. You just need it to feel like someone considered
it more rather than doing what the tools made easy -- taking stuff out will go
a long way.

You need sound effects, if not music.

~~~
aconbere
You might be able to get away with removing most of the explanation if you had
a simple animation of the game play looping on the page. All I needed was to
start the first level to understand how the game worked (having played drop 7)

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alex_c
I really think you might be on to something. It's just as much fun to play as
any of the big hits in this genre I can think of - really is in the same class
as Tetris, Bejeweled, etc.

Some random thoughts:

\- I started reading the instructions, failed to visualize any of it, and said
"screw it, I'll just start playing and pick it up as I go". The good news is
the gameplay itself is very intuitive.

\- appearances are SO important in the iPhone world. If it looks like it's
starting to pick up momentum, absolutely get a good designer on board and give
it an overhaul. I can easily see someone else take your gameplay, give it a
lot of polish, and release an app that will leave yours in the dust - that
would really suck.

edit: just bought the iPhone version. Well worth the $0.99.

~~~
rms
Amichail, I am very happy for you. You were able to make a new puzzle game
with gameplay on the order of Tetris and that is a very rare achievement.
There can't be more than 10 puzzle video games that have gameplay as
compelling as Tetris or Bejeweled or even BreakThru and derivatives. BreakThru
is called Big Money on Popcap. Dropzap's similarity to that definitely NP-
complete game is what makes me think your game is also NP-complete.

I think the guy saying this is better than Tetris is being a little
hyperbolic, but maybe it's just because I consider Tetris to be (by far) the
greatest video game ever made.

I don't mean this to be in any way offensive, but I always kind of looked at
you as the official mascot of the site. "I think 1 is the optimal number of
amichails." <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=925382> It now looks like you
are going to find success.

Have you given any thoughts to the eventual design/theme? Robots? Dinosaurs?
Demolition? Or keep it purely or mostly abstract? One incentive for a theme or
improved design is that you can use that version 2.0 to justify a new round of
reviews on the app review websites.

Now all we need is a social news site that uses DropZap scores to determine
story order! :D I'd settle for a high score page where people get to link to
their personal or business site.

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drhodes
For me, at first, the color and size had distinct significance. Instead of
changing the size and color of the blocks, how about using one color and
tuning down it's saturation, or transparency and keep the size the same. Or
just change the size? Did you try this at first, was it too bland visually?
Also, I thought it would be better too not have a row feed of blocks after
every drop. Doing this would more clearly expose the mechanics. Presumably
this wasn't feasible because trivial games could be played by stacking blocks
in only one column. This expolit might be eschewed by introducing
indestructible blocks, and may also allow arbitrary height of the board. I
think the chain reaction effect is visually appealing, but takes away from
game play. Past the second round of block removal, it's _impossible_ (heh,
well for this mortal) to definitively predict the consequences of a particular
drop. Badda-bing-bang-bong and half the screen is cleared. When it doesn't
work out so well the responsibility for failure can easily be ascribed to
unfortunate randomness introduced by the row feed. It's a neat idea though, I
hope it works out and that in 5 years I'm eating my words :]

~~~
amichail
_...it's impossible (heh, well for this mortal) to definitively predict the
consequences of a particular drop. Badda-bing-bang-bong and half the screen is
cleared. When it doesn't work out so well the responsibility for failure can
easily be ascribed to unfortunate randomness introduced by the row feed._

What do you mean by this? The chain reaction doesn't involve anything random.

~~~
drhodes
The chain reaction involves the row feed, which I assume is randomly
generated. But that's entirely a different point.

I'm saying that it is nearly impossible to predict what's going to happen
given that a particular choice often causes a reaction which might involve
many steps (9? 10+) of elimination, each changing the configuration of the
blocks. I've built a block dropper, that's why I saw this. But if users like
it, and it's selling ...

~~~
amichail
When you drop a piece, you will not get a new row inserted before the chain
reaction (if any) completes. So a new row will not affect your ability to
predict how the chain reaction will go.

But yes, chain reactions can be long. You can at least predict how a chain
reaction will start out and guess about what might happen after that.

------
amichail
Do you think the page is confusing? How could it be improved?

The demo is limited to the first three levels of standard mode. Do you think I
should take off the three level limit? Although you can play this in Safari on
the iPhone/iPod touch, the animation is sluggish and buggy. Moreover, the
native version has more features.

~~~
bemmu
The explanation on the page talks about a "column segment" and a "square
piece", but I couldn't figure out how they correspond to the elements in the
game.

~~~
amichail
Maybe I should say "stack of squares" instead of "column segment".

~~~
chrischen
I thought it is confusing when it says "column segment lands," because I
thought a column would show up and land. But you mean when you form a column
right?

~~~
amichail
When a square lands, it may have square(s) immediately above it.

Only the square at the bottom of this landing square stack shrinks other
squares (if any).

------
operon
Better than Tetris. Much better. I think that sums all.

However I second the suggestions to make more clear what actions will led to
the column and lateral block elimination. It take me a couple of plays to
figure out.

Congratulations for your work.

------
maxklein
I could not figure out what was happening in the first minute of playing it,
so I closed the page. And I'm not too dumb, so I think about 70% of people
will be the same.

You need to explain better how the game works.

~~~
dutchflyboy
Well, from what I understood it works like this:

You lose when the blocks get to the top of the playing field. You need to make
points by making blocks disappear. To do this you have the piece at the top of
your screen. Click where you want to drop it.

Now all blocks under and on the same row will shrink. When you shrink a red
block, it will disappear.

When a red block disappears, the blocks above it fall, which will start a
chain effect starting at the lowest one (just try, you'll understand what I
mean).

Enjoy!

------
JangoSteve
Wow, that was really fun. The description doesn't accurately describe the
behavior of the game though, or rather maybe they could be more clear. For
instance:

 _When any square lands, it shrinks all squares below it and in the same row
segment._ -> actually, it only shrinks _contiguous_ squares in the same row
(of course, now that I re-read it, maybe that's what you meant by "row
segment")

That being said, I played that game for 5-10 minutes before remembering that
it was an "Ask HN" and that I should come back here and provide feedback ;-)
Bookmarked!

~~~
amichail
What percentage of people would know what "contiguous" means?

~~~
chrischen
I think "contiguous" does a great job of making "it shrinks all squares below
it and in the same row segment" more concise and understandable, even if just
for the subset of people who understand what contiguous means. That being
said, I wouldn't underestimate the intelligence of the average english speaker
that much. Contiguous is a pretty common word.

But a good compromise would be a video or something demonstrating exactly what
you mean.

------
richardw
My guess is: put the 9/10 from the iPhone App review near the top. Simplify
the page and reduce the importance of most of the text - lots of colours
demanding attention. Get it to 1 message and the game.

However I suspect the real answers will emerge from testing. Do a test on
trial screen count and see which amount of screens increases your conversion.
Test changing colours, text, positioning etc. Over time you'll know more than
we could about what will work on that page.

~~~
chrischen
Or just hire a designer.

~~~
richardw
For the l&f yup, but designers won't necessarily know anything about improving
conversions, which testing will do for you.

------
fauigerzigerk
Hey, I love it! Brilliant game! It's simple but there's still something to
figure out because you have to anticipate the cascading effects of squares
getting eliminated.

The explanation isn't good, but playing it reveals how it works anyway.

------
ericd
Awesome. I hit the level cap at least 3 times before coming back here. Please
make the web version unlimited, I would like to play more and don't want to
drag out my phone while I'm at my computer.

------
kalendae
first of all the game is great and very addictive and has more depth than
tetris and bejeweled and what not.

problems with the page tho: 1) way too many different fonts and colors to the
texts. confusing to process, i didn't know where to place my eyes for quite a
while

2) descriptions and reviews are too verbose. like instead of all the reviews,
all u need is like a one liner like "way better than tetris and bejeweled"
that conveys what it is as opposed to like 3 paragraphs.

------
jazzychad
I have no idea how the block elimination logic works once they all start
falling, but I don't care. I just want to play over and over. You will soon be
earning my 99 cents. Kudos.

------
qeorge
Lots of fun, and it played very smoothly. Obviously the graphics could use a
look, but you know that.

------
rms
Hey, if anyone's bored you could try and prove this game to be NP-Complete...

------
andrewcooke
as everyone else is saying - this is pretty awesome, but you need to have some
kind of auto mode running or something that shows people what it does.

------
bbsabelli
Nice game. Aussie itunes store pretty please...

------
kapauldo
pros:

\- really fresh and interesting \- lots of neat surprises

cons:

\- not at all clear why what i am doing is causing these cascading effects,
but the after-effects are awesome

really really _cool_ game, and really really cool math behind hit. i'm really
impressed with this.

