
Screen time: how much is too much? - pseudolus
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00137-6
======
Zak
I find the article presenting "screen time" as if it's a single thing highly
problematic.

Ephemeralization has led to a phone or tablet being equivalent to a novel,
textbook, comic book, telephone, game console, TV, academic journal (I do, in
fact know an 8 year old who reads academic journals), and more. With parents
often being much more hesitant than they were 2-3 decades ago to allow
children to go anywhere unsupervised, it's often the primary means by which
children interact with each other privately.

Even a subset like social media use can entail a broad range of different
behaviors. One person uses social media to talk with a small circle of friends
and family. Another puts on some sort of public display to get attention from
strangers. A third plays the addictive "engagement" game.

Of course, an observer who just sees a kid holding a tablet has little idea
how they're using it. A parent wishing to direct their child's activities has
new challenges when a screen can be used for so many different things.

~~~
Consultant32452
My daughter started exhibiting some addictive behaviors with her phone so now
she's limited to 1 hour of screen time daily. Here's a tiny example of her
behavior now. Bed time is 10pm. It doesn't matter what is happening, at
exactly 9pm she will claim to be tired, go to her room, and use her one hour
of screen time. She does this even if we're actively engaged in a family
activity such as playing a game together or whatever else she may enjoy doing.

It's this aspect that concerns me, that she continually chooses screen stuff
over socialization with friends or family that concerns me far more than what
she might specifically be doing on that screen. For what it's worth, she
mostly watches vlogs on YouTube.

~~~
depressedpanda
Have you considered that it may be natural for her to choose screen time at
9pm exactly because you have limited it to her?

Let's say she enjoys several activities equally, yet access to one of them is
restricted while access to the others isn't - she can do them as often as she
wants. If her bedtime then is at 10, she is allotted one hour to enjoy the
restricted activity, she hasn't used that hour today, and the clock strikes 9,
why shouldn't she opt for the restricted activity?

Or is your actual goal that you want her to enjoy screen time less than she
currently does?

I think there's a difference between 1) wanting your kid to do other things
_in addition_ to something that they already enjoy, and to 2) expect them to
enjoy it less just because you don't understand why they find it enjoyable.

I also think this is a mistake parents should be more careful about making.

From what you've written it doesn't seem like a case of true addiction to me,
but if it is, I apologize, and your concern is probably justified.

~~~
Consultant32452
Here's an example of her behavior before the 1 hour screen time limit. If we
would be out doing family activities and it would be getting close to bed time
she would have literal panic attacks because she "didn't get to watch enough
Youtube today."

>Or is your actual goal that you want her to enjoy screen time less than she
currently does?

The word "enjoy" takes on a twisted meaning once addictive behaviors set in.

Here's a list of "screen" activities that do not currently count against her
hour of screen time. Any group screen activity. So if she is playing a video
game with friends or family, that does not count against screen time. If she's
watching anything educational, including but not limited to videos on how to
complete a craft she is performing. Video games played alone but which
incorporate physical activity such as "Just Dance" games do not count against
screen time. If the family is watching her favorite TV show together, that
does not count against "screen time." But she will leave even her favorite TV
show to not miss out on her addiction fuel. And she only "willingly"
participates in any other activities because her isolated screen time is
restricted.

I frankly couldn't care less that she enjoys watching vlogs or videos of kids
opening packages. The problem is the social isolation and lack of variety in
activities.

~~~
qu4z-2
When I was young, my parents (for some reason) decided I was lactose
intolerant and strictly limited my milk intake.

To this day, I enjoy milk disproportionately.

I'm not saying screens _aren 't_ addictive, but limiting someone's access to
something often makes them want it even more than they did to start with.

~~~
Consultant32452
I welcome you to spread this token of wisdom at your next local AA meeting.

~~~
solveit
As it turns out, American college students drink in far unhealthier ways than
European students. It has been suggested that it might have something to do
with the absurd legal drinking age of 21.

~~~
Consultant32452
That's irrelevant since the prohibition came after the addiction was
established, not before.

------
lordnacho
Computers and other devices with screens are massive double edged sword for
kids growing up, it's a huge worry as a parent.

On the one hand, you can learn a huge amount of stuff just sitting there at
home reading and following links. There are kids who've learned HFT level c++
sitting with a computer. (I worked with one). You can also learn a lot about
just about anything else.

On the other hand, the same device can swallow your whole future via
gamification. Social media and game designers have figured out how to make
things so addictive kids get angry if you take it away from them. And you
can't not have any online presence at all as a teenager, it's part of life
now.

Hopefully I'll be able to navigate a happy medium.

~~~
rayiner
How can this be a “huge worry” when the fine article’s conclusion is as
follows:

> The authors’ overall calculations did find a statistically significant
> negative association between technology use and well-being: more screen time
> is associated with lower well-being in the young people surveyed. But the
> effects are so small — explaining at most 0.4% of the variation in well-
> being — as to be of little practical value.

Parents are wasting their time policing screen time. It’s a moral panic, not
dissimilar to the moral panic when television came out and everyone thought it
would make children stupid.

~~~
Emma_Goldman
1\. Well-being is not the only thing worth caring about.

2\. The person you are addressing is talking about gaming, not screen time.

3\. I don't see how you can deny that most games are made to be addictive,
that innumerable people - especially teenagers - become addicted, and that
this has a detrimental effect on their becoming full, rounded and developed
persons.

~~~
rayiner
Well being seems like a pretty comprehensive definition of what parents should
be concerned about. And I can deny the detrimental effects of gaming because
studies have repeatedly debunked that idea.

~~~
crispinb
Only if bewitched by the phrase. It's hard enough to agree philosophically on
what constitutes well being for humans, so to accept psychological measures of
it without very careful examination is a leap of faith I wouldn't take.

> And I can deny the detrimental effects of gaming because studies have
> repeatedly debunked that idea.

Again, you're taking a lot on faith there based on a relatively small amount
of research done during only a few years. Exposing young people during
significant portions of their waking hours to computers/screens is one of the
widest-scale social experiments ever undertaken. It could take generations to
fully understand its implications.

I don't have a horse in this particular race and agree that many comments on
the topic smack of moral panic. The most rational thing to do at this stage is
reserve judgement. We don't know everything, and it's very early days yet.
Having said that, if I were a parent, given the gravity of the responsibility,
I'd be cautious at least.

~~~
solveit
>if I were a parent, given the gravity of the responsibility, I'd be cautious
at least.

I'm curious as to what this entails, because

>Exposing young people during significant portions of their waking hours to
computers/screens is one of the widest-scale social experiments ever
undertaken.

This is false. A kid in the year 2000 has a radically different childhood from
a kid in 1950 (who had the kind of childhood that people opposing screentime
seem to want), who in turn has a radically different childhood from a kid in
1850 (who was probably working in a coal mine or sweeping chimneys or
something).

There is no way to be cautiously conservative because there is no default to
default to. In fact, I find it a remarkable coincidence that out of humanity's
100,000 year history, the perfect childhood just happens to be the one that
today's old people had. Rest assured that in 1950, there were just as many old
people bemoaning their youth that didn't know the value of hard work and spent
all their time watching movies.

~~~
crispinb
A good response & I'm definitely sympathetic to the notion that moral panics
centre around departures from familiar (recent) norms.

I still hold to the claim that the screen use experiment is (1) particularly
radical in that it involves substantially reducing children's exposure to the
physical environment in which humans have evolved to develop (ie. that of
human-scale 3D animate & inanimate things with which they physically
interact). Note that 'radical' doesn't necessarily mean more harmful - just
that it's hard to predict the developmental outcome as it's such a departure.
And that it is (2) notably large scale due to the greater homogeneity of the
change. A far larger proportion of kids are made subject to this particular
experiment than in the past -- neither indigenous Australians not upper class
English kids were chimney sweeps in the 19th C, but I'm sure both groups love
their screens now.

Caution needn't mean adhering rigidly to an outdated template - that would be
more like extreme conservatism or fundamentalism. It could just mean, er,
caution! If I had kids, I'd consider how much screen time of different types
they would be allowed, and how it might be balanced or blended with other
activities. Like other parents, I would have no way of being certain about the
answer most likely to lead to flourishing, I'd just have to make my best
guess. I'm pretty sure for me that guess wouldn't be 'pass the child-training
buck to Facebook & Google'. They take 'training' far too literally for
comfort.

[Edit: My 'caution' would particularly extend to alarms &/or reassurances
coming from studies such as this. For a number of reasons, it's a field I
don't find very convincing ]

------
chasd00
I have a 9 and 6 year old (both boys). It's a pretty major issue in our
household trying to balance screen-time with the kids and staying on the same
page with my wife. I'm more flexible than she is but she's done more research
on the topic than I have so I try to defer to her. However, i'm pretty hard-
headed sometimes.

We just try to limit duration and also use it as a reward system. Our oldest
will get himself out of bed and 100% ready for school ( shoes/socks, brush
teeth the whole 9 yards) in order to get 20min screen-time before school. I
wish he didn't get any before school but I agreed to the preconditions and i
always tell him "a deal's a deal".

Our younger son will self-regulate to a point, like he gets bored and will
play in his room or throw me a lightsaber and fight. However, he's really
really into watching youtube videos of other people playing games with the
commentary. He can't get enough of roblox for example so after an hour or so
we make him go do something else and take a break.

Both kids are very social and physically active so it doesn't bother me very
much. Plus, there are days when, as a parent, you just have nothing left and
kids in front of a screen give you a few min. to lick your wounds and recover.

~~~
briandarvell
My trouble is that my two daughters (10 and 8) go to a school where iPads are
used for a significant part of their school work, even when they're at school.
They don't get paper assignments or worksheets anymore, it's all assigned over
a program called Schoology and they're expected to work and submit it all
through the iPad. Then when they come home after school, their homework is
also done on the iPad. Then once they're done all their homework and have
already spent countless hours that day on tablets doing their work, they want
downtime to relax and play and often games on the iPad is a big part of that.

I agree as a parent we have a big role to play in being very aware of
practicing what we preach. Obviously that goes with more than just screen
time. I've caught myself many times saying that my child cannot go on tablets
right now, meanwhile I grab my phone to check emails or read the news...

I don't know what the perfect answer is but I think moderation is needed much
more. Especially considering the active effort to make games/apps as addictive
to us as possible. I wish the school would adapt a screen-free learning day
system where, maybe a couple days each week, all work is done without the need
for iPads.

~~~
wvenable
Funny anecdote from my son: His favorite time at a school is going to the
computer lab. I asked him about the iPads in the classroom and he said "Those
are for work".

------
Nasrudith
I can't help but roll eyes at screen time as the newest neo-puritian trend.
Mainly because it is so damn meaningless without the /what/. It is like trying
to lump pulp novels, newspapers, comic books, hard core porn and textbooks
together but even worse.

I worry far more about the cyclic "must find new sin and moral panics" trend
continuing. I am frankly wondering if it is a biological derangement of life
stage akin to impulsiveness of teenagers or reactionary nostalgia of elders.

~~~
jacobmoe
I partly agree with this, but also find myself addicted to my phone and
worried that it's not great for my mental health. It's true that you can set
your watch to collective freakouts over change. It's also true that some new
things have caused major social problems and, in hindsight, we didn't panic
enough when those changes were starting to become widespread. It's a lot like
obesity. Sure, we shouldn't freak out about the food system, people can still
make healthy choices, but the obesity epidemic is real and we need to think it
through.

~~~
Nasrudith
Personally I suspect a lot of phone addiction is that reality is full of
boring things of little importance that we are bound to from above. Just like
anyone would prefer doing something to sitting in a dark cave alone. (Granted
skinner boxing is an issue that affects some more than others.)

What is considered functional is shaped by the environment and successes -
including norms. Greek Heroes have a different name now in most cases -
psychopaths. Oedipus has a funny case of major values dissonance.

Now people would consider him guiltless for marrying his mother because he
didn't know and may have been enslaved by destiny but consider him guilty for
killing his father over road rage essentially but not because he was his
father. No shit one's actions of killing random people for petty reasons will
come back to bite them! It is Shakespeare in the bush of interpretations
essentially.

~~~
hombre_fatal
>I suspect a lot of phone addiction is that reality is full of boring things
of little importance that we are bound to from above

That's certainly a good excuse to start some low-effort dopamine releasing
habit, but an issue is that we're driven to them even when the reality around
us _is_ interesting, and it prevents us from engaging in that reality or
_developing_ an interest in it which works against us.

I like to bring up a sense of longterm/after-the-fact fulfillment in these
discussions as a gauge of how to spend your time now. I think it's a more or
less uncontroversial way to go about life. It's easy to say "well, any time
spent having fun is not time wasted" but that fails when it comes to
maximizing fulfillment and minimizing regret.

Playing Fortnite on my phone might give me the biggest dopamine release right
now and be instantly fulfilling compared to meeting the person next to me
sitting at the beach or going for a swim in the crystal clear water. To link
it back to something you said, it's a habit I would've developed under more
boring scenarios.

But in weeks, months, or years, I know that seizing the opportunity of the
beach or meeting someone would be vastly more fulfilling than spending that
time on the screen.

My fellow ex-gamer friends have similar lamentations: "I wish I'd spent that
time doing anything else than playing all those games." I'd guarantee almost
everyone here looks at their time refreshing Instagram/FB/Reddit and maybe
even HN in a similar light.

In these comments people always like to point out the good things about
screens, like how they learned to program that way. But I think "screen time"
in these discussions is a stand-in for the easy way out, and things with
screens are the most effective instant escape that humans have ever had. To
point out that someone can spend 100% of their screen time doing something
they won't regret is like pointing out a couch can actually be used to do
tricep dips.

But consider, when I was teaching my friend's little brother Python (on a
screen), he kept constantly pulling his smartphone out do something more
interesting (in the short term) and was slapping his own wrist for having that
habit and genuinely interested in learning to program. Something that is
surely more fulfilling in a year than knowing what's going on in social media.

------
BossingAround
My iPhone's screen time feature made me realize that the time spent on a
device in and of itself is actually pointless without further context. When I
started reading white papers on my daily commute, my screen time went up
drastically yet that was a good thing.

When I became unhappy at work, I realized that also corresponded to a spike in
screen time, generally in playing little free games. That's a problem, but
increased screen time is only a symptom.

~~~
maccard
My android one is a little better. It tells me my screen time, and a breakdown
of what app I had open and for how long. Unfortunately a large swathe of that
is "chrome", but there is definitely info to be gleaned from it.

It's 12:30 and I've unlocked my phone 40 times, opened chrome 21 times, and
reddit 29 times...

~~~
sakisv
Do you have an app that does that or are you using a Pixel device? (I think
this feature was restricted to Pixels only)

~~~
moviuro
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.wellbeing)
?

It's part of Android 9, I believe. (I have a Nokia 7 Plus)

------
letmeintoit
Yes, it's dangerous! Since it takes away other types of sensorial experiences
from young kids..it's only touch on a glass surface..

I've noticed with our young one, that he switches from one video to the next
very quickly and seems to have hard time sticking to one video for too long..
as a lesser of two evils, tried putting on the TV and then turning it off
after certain time (beaming the content via Chrome and controlling the timing
that way)

Are their time rationing apps/systems for iOS devices? Setup timer for 30
minutes and then the device shuts off or locks? I see some paid options when
searching online but don't know how well they work and if anyone here has
experience with them?

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
>It's only touch on a glass surface..

That’s something I’ve considered too. Before- it was incompatible connectors,
things that probably didn’t work without drivers, disk fail, keyboard
clack....

Now most things always works, it’s smooth glass everywhere you never have to
even slightly stomp on something. It’s all about getting them to inject
content now.

It’s like we had to grow our own poppies and mash it up to get a little high,
and kids get straight purified drip SuperHerion drip now. At least we learned
some farming skills.

------
malvosenior
Growing up I had pretty much everyone telling me to get off the computer and
"go outside" or whatever. I now make a lot more money than all of those people
(using screens) and _still_ spend most of my time on my computer.

People have been complaining about screen time since there have been screens.
Screens are where all of modern society happens. Keep them away from your kids
at your/their own risk.

~~~
gomox
You, and most people on this site, also happen to have lived through what
appears to be the golden age of the computer programmer.

~~~
malvosenior
Whatever will have the next golden age will come through a screen.

------
feiss
I find it terribly complicated. My 3yo doesn't watch any screen yet, but I
have a dilemma. On one side, there's a huge world of cool visual and auditive
content that can be exciting, stimulating and an amazing tool for learning and
discovering the world. On the other side, I'm very aware of how absorbing and
addictive is, and how difficult is to ration it. Anyway, I feel she's still
too young. She doesn't ask for it yet, so why start? She's already very busy
discovering the world by herself with all her senses.

~~~
citizenkeen
My wife works with kids who get too much screen time, so I can say this. Not
all screen time is the same. The key, _key_ thing is - how involved is the
parent?

I'd rather my kid watching useless bouncing balls with me on the couch next to
him talking to him about it than watching something "educational" (ha) with me
in the next room.

Our 2.5yo gets twenty minutes of Netflix a day (because he likes animals and I
can't take him to the zoo every day). But either my wife or I (or usually
both) sit on the couch with him and talk to him about what he's seeing.

Don't be scared of screen time. Be scared of screen time as a babysitter.

------
robbrown451
The biggest problem with "screen time" is that so much of it is designed to
addict people. Data and algorithms are used to determine what will keep them
watching.

Books and the like aren't really designed this way.

But that is the big difference. What this community should probably be doing,
rather than lumping all "screen time" together, is working on ways to curate
and present content in ways that doesn't have this problem.

I believe it is an extreme case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater to
severely limit the use of anything with a screen, when what you really want to
do is break the addictive cycle of the "bad stuff."

------
artur_makly
I have a 6yr old. This was his argument ( in Spanish ) when asked whether he
preferred to go to an Amusement Park or sit all day and watch youtubers:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RZNy6ARzZ4&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RZNy6ARzZ4&feature=youtu.be)

99% of the kids I know will ALWAYS opt to veg out and play games or watch
Youtube. This was not the case when I was growing up in NYC with all the game-
sets and cable TV.

So what are we doing about it?

1 - he is only limited to Netflix. 30min max per day

2 - Every other day, he can play 15-20 min of only a handful of games like
Chess, Cut-the-rope, and Lego Adventures on the tablet.

3 - We've decided to move to Patagonia next month so that he will be able to
run wild in nature whenever he gets 'bored'.

4 - We quickly realized that the best way to lead is by example, therefore mom
and dad put away and don't use the phones at home while he is around. This too
has help my severe addiction.

My instincts tell me that the LONGER he stay off devices, the better off he
will be. It's like Crack to them. S.Jobs knew that himself, that's why he
didn't allow his daughter to touch the stuff.

~~~
synthos
Steve Jobs was a pretty weird dude. Among other things, he thought eating the
same thing for a week meant he wouldn't stink (he did). I don't know if he's
the best example

------
TenaciousValor
If there's little evidence showing that the medium is affecting people
positively or negatively, perhaps the key differentiator is content.

A medium is the vehicle for content, and content is dictated by the medium.
However, the content you the parent or your tiny adult ingest is entirely of
your own control. A parent should ensure their tiny adult is receiving that
which will help them develop into healthy adults. Most people simply mimic the
things they see and practices they observe, which has broad implications for
the kind of content a tiny adult should ingest.

Consider this situation: there are only two shows left on the Earth: "Mister
Rogers' Neighborhoood" and "Reno 911." Which show should your tiny adult watch
to grow them into a healthy adult? The answer, obviously, is the former. The
latter can be viewed later in life once the tiny adult has a more complete
understanding of right and wrong.

------
JunkDNA
I spent an enormous amount of time on my computer as a kid, and I credit that
time with giving me the superpowers later in life that accelerated my career.
I had a decade-long head start on many of my peers. So I am hugely biased that
"hey, I turned out fine. No big deal".

However, seeing my own kids' behavior even when I heavily restrict their
screen time makes me question that. When their time is up they wail and moan
and yell in a way that goes well beyond the usual kind of complaining kids do.
I tightly control the apps that my kids are allowed to use and limit their
time (thanks to iOS screen time). In the times when I've taken away iPads as
punishment for extended periods, my kids' moods have improved. The amount of
arguing has gone down. Their behavior is better. It's inescapable that these
things alter them in some way. This is without social media even!

I genuinely don't know what the right answer is. On one hand, they have this
amazing machine that is a gateway to all sorts of learning. It's almost like
we've stepped into the world of "Diamond Age". On the other hand, it makes
them turn into borderline sociopaths, even when they use it for short periods
of time. The addictive effect is real too, and that is also frightening. If
given the choice between anything and iPad time, iPad time wins hands-down
100% of the time. The human race has entered a whole new unexplored territory.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Let’s be honest it was totally different for most of us.

Even older millennials here remember life before the internet.

If the internet existed at all for people here it was ICQ or MSN, some home
town ISP, and grainy playboy pics someone uploaded to a fan site. Not what the
internet resembles today.

I agree with you, my screen time strongly influenced me as a programmer and
the try-it-see-what-happens logic I find many people lack.

I just don’t think it’s comparable to zoning out on Yahoo Kids for hours.

~~~
therealx
I mean I learned to program and all that but I also sat and played
Starcraft/CS/etc for way too many hours. I think I received skills from gaming
as well, and it didn't make me a violent/not well rounded/<insert negative
here> adult.

------
blackSnake
I have noticed, having the sensitivity of a qi gong practitioner, that
computers and interfacing with a digital device makes your body weaker. It
sucks the energy right out of you. It also concentrates the energy around the
head.

The dangers can come when you don't rebalance the energies in your body. Doing
something physical is important and I am sure a lot of you guys will tend to
something physical after large amounts of screen time. Unless you ignore the
body. That's where you can get a lot of anxiety, mental imbalances, neurosis
etc.

The fuel for the mind comes from the body. If you have a strong body, the
drain from using the screen will be lessened but make no mistake about it, its
taking away from you. You are trading information for energy so make it
worthwhile and safe. Don't put the laptops on your lap. Keep the cellphone
away from your face. Take a lot of breaks. Eat well.

In all my years of using my computer, I have never gotten up from it and
thought to myself "Wow, I feel great after that". It might have been
interesting and stimulating but my body would not agree, in a way that's
different from reading a book for an hour. Computers will continue to get even
more immersive. Maybe the stereotypical image of an alien is accurate for the
future of a human being, big heads, little bodies.

~~~
therealx
This sounds like the same mumbo jumbo my Mom forwards from obscure sources.
She even goes as far as to order Faraday Cage underwear and laments the
existence of wireless anything.

That said there's plenty of times that I feel great after working on a
computer all day. It can be draining too, but it just depends on what I'm
focused on and accomplishing (or not). I feel refreshed and charged solving
problems, but of course the loop of opening a new tab, typing "news.", closing
the tab, and doing it again feels awful after some time.

~~~
bluntfang
Oh gosh can you grow up and read between the lines and refrain from ad hominem
arguments? OP is saying that exercise is important for a healthy body and
mind. It's true and we all know it.

Do I believe in Qi Gong woo woo? No, but I do know that Qi Gong is a physical
practice that can make you more aware of your body and how it feels by sheer
mindfulness, just like yoga, running, hiking, etc.

~~~
UnFleshedOne
Being right for wrong reasons is still a bad thing, see the recent article
about gettier cases. Eg. if you see a cardboard cutout cow in the field and
think that is a cow, you are wrong even if there is an actual cow behind the
cutout. This is not a mere epistemic nitpicking, it is a question of whether
your process of arriving to conclusions can give you right answers in other
applicable cases.

So calling out woo is worth it even when it happens to lead to conclusions you
agree with for other reasons.

~~~
noobiemcfoob
All of science is right for the wrong reasons. Our models are wrong. Just by
decreasing degrees. Science will never be "true" in the strictest sense.
Looking at it otherwise is a flawed viewpoint that is perpetuating post-
modernism.

~~~
UnFleshedOne
Sure, I didn't mean to imply one can be absolutely right. But willfully
choosing more wrong model and not looking to improve it is, well, more wrong.

~~~
noobiemcfoob
I don't think I agree. If a model is known to be largely false but in certain
situations it provides good enough results and is easy to work with, that
model will continue to get used until a better one replaces it. It's the
classic problem undergrads have with Physics I vs. Physics II where the second
declares all of Physics I false. Really, it's that Physics II is _more_
accurate under more conditions, but that doesn't make what's learned in
Physics I useless.

~~~
UnFleshedOne
There is a small step from physics I to physics II, accuracy wise. There is a
huge step between physics I and astrology, or basic anatomy and energy
meridians. To the point of one of those method from each pair not being useful
even in limited specific circumstances.

I don't disagree with your points mind you, I'm making a distinction between
inaccurate methods that work in their own limited domain with limited accuracy
(that is all we have, I agree) and not even wrong methods that sometimes work
by accident but don't generalize even within their own stated limits.

------
hsnewman
I have worked in IT for 37+ years. That's way, way too much.

~~~
rv-de
What makes you come to this conclusion?

------
jimijazz
This is an excellent read for data scientists, as it illustrates how easy it
is to get possibly wrong conclussions from trying to find a particular
correlation in data

------
mark_l_watson
I am concerned about my own screen time, especially if I also count listening
to audio books and reading ebooks and Machine learning papers. Even when I go
to the gym now, I usually listen to a podcast while working out. I don’t play
computer games (except when my job was doing ‘game AI’ on Nintendo games) but
between my personal research and working in an AI lab, I spend a large
fraction of my awake time engaged with something digital.

------
rthomas6
I think we should also be asking this about adults. We know screens interfere
with sleep. We know screen time is correlated with depression. We know the
mere _presence_ of smartphones lowers cognitive ability and concentration. It
seems obvious screen time is bad for adults too, and the research shows we
usually spend many/most waking hours in front of one.

~~~
Apocryphon
Not to mention the lack of physical activity.

------
duxup
I wish we could breakdown "good screen time" and "bad screen time" ... or at
least see if there are different types.

------
rahulrrixe
For me, screentime has worked really well. I don't have social media apps and
notifications are on for critical apps i.e. Calendar, Slack, Journal entry (I
achieved it with discipline).

Now the sad part is you can still access them on your browser and because of
gamification, it is so easy to lose the track of time on those sites. I used
to keep reading articles for hours even though I haven't finished a single
task for the day.

What screentime offers me is a check which actually what I needed. It is like
a teacher/friend who reminds me you are spending more time than supposed to in
categories which is not important for you. At the moment, social media seems
waste of time for me and so I set it up for a 5-minute limit. If I am reading
important stuff on social media and it binges me the limit time. I think that
check helps in reminding what is urgent and what is important and don't mind
it as a problem as other people commented.

------
clearing
If you're concerned about this for yourself I highly recommend looking into
NoSurf ([https://nosurf.org/](https://nosurf.org/)) to read about the effects
on attention span and mindfulness caused by humanity's most powerful means of
easy distraction, the net.

~~~
citizenkeen
I don't know if that's your site, but the "Learn More" button dead center on
the front page 404s.

~~~
clearing
Nah I wish it were my site because that bugs me too :) "Start here" up top
works, though.

------
syntaxing
I bought an Android e-reader tablet (Boyue Likebook Mars) and it has been life
changing. I suffer from the same problem since I use a computer almost 9-10
hours a day at work. Then I go home and use my laptop and my phone before I
sleep. An e-reader has helped me cut down my screen usage by probably 2-3
hours a day.

~~~
hypfer
So.. an e-reader display is not a screen then?

~~~
officemonkey
I would argue that an ereader that simply displays ebooks is less of a
"screen" than a smartphone.

But I read 90 books a year on an ereader, so perhaps I'm biased.

~~~
hypfer
What does screen-ness even mean?

~~~
Apocryphon
Dynamic vs. static. Less FPS. No sound. Little interactivity.

------
jungler
I think the trick is not to regulate total screen time, but to regulate long
uninterrupted blocks of screen time.

The "social media loop" that haunts many adults is not really different from
whatever cravings kids are going through, and in both cases it can be combated
with scheduled activity breaks that involve getting up and doing a bit of
housework or going outside for few minutes. It promotes better sleep habits
while not really limiting the core activity.

I would definitely not recommend encouraging anyone to go from one sedentary
activity(games, Youtube) to another(homework, coding etc.) directly - that's
something that makes "screen time" a nebulous timesink.

------
healthylimit
We created an App that helps strike a balance between screen time and physical
activities. It's called healthy limit, currently available on the Google Play
Store:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.healthylim...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.healthylimit.app)

The idea is to use a Fitbit to track a kids steps and sleep, and reward them
with screen time for every step and every minute of sleep.

Parents decide the rules of exchange for steps and sleep to screen time.

------
skilled
I am having quite a few busy months, and in turn, having to spend a lot more
time _on screen_. And I am starting to catch myself having some conscience
issues with this. A part of my brain is automatically complaining that this
isn't healthy and sustainable.

I catch myself getting anxious about my posture even though my back/neck
doesn't hurt in the evening. And I think about my eyes a lot and how I don't
want to 'damage' them even more.

Little things like this you know... it's the best self-concluded research out
there.

------
hannob
I recommend following the work of Amy Orben, she's very critical of the wide
conclusions drawn from weak data:
[https://twitter.com/OrbenAmy](https://twitter.com/OrbenAmy)

And she's a researcher committed to good scientific practice.

Her tl;dr is that yeah, there are negative effects, but they're small and the
data is messy. And screen time is a bad concept, because it lumps together
very different things.

~~~
nostoc
This is pretty much the conclusion of the article as well :

> Well-being was more strongly associated, either positively or negatively,
> with most of these other variables than with digital-technology use. In
> fact, regularly eating potatoes was almost as negatively associated with
> well-being as was technology use, and the negative association between
> wearing glasses and well-being was greater.

------
dugluak
But what do kids do during winter when you really can't get out of the house
that often? I didn't grow up in a region where winters are so severe that you
can't get out of the house and play but I am raising kids who are in a region
where winters are severe and I have no idea what to do other than letting them
play inside with screens.

~~~
adrianN
Books, board games, indoor sports?

How severe are the winters where you live? I've never been anywhere where you
couldn't go out with proper clothing.

~~~
dugluak
proper clothing is fine, but it gets dark in couple of hours after their
school ends and by the time I get home which is around 6PM, so 5 out of 7 days
a week just go by like that.

And I don't see much difference between books/ board games and screen time
(except allowing them to browse youtube etc)

~~~
adrianN
For me personally the difference between screen time and books or board games
is the prolonged focus on one thing. When online, I tend to jump through
articles, scroll through feeds and switch focus much more rapidbly than during
offline activities.

~~~
Apocryphon
I’d also say the problem with hypermedia is that the production values allow
someone else’s vision to swamp out your own imagination and creativity. If
you’re reading a static book, you have to visualize your own world. With
digital works you can get the full sensory experience. You don’t need to use
your creativity as much.

It’s as if all of the movies are using special effects drenched in CGI all of
the time.

------
tmaly
I limit my 5 year olds screen time to 20 minutes when she asks for screen
time. She spends most of her time drawing or playing.

But if you think about it, the device screen time has really replaced the
television of our youth. It is used more as a way to babysit our children so
we do not have to engage with them.

------
lbj
tl;dr: We need more data and better data to draw reliable conclusions. This
far the closest we can come is

"The authors’ overall calculations did find a statistically significant
negative association between technology use and well-being: more screen time
is associated with lower well-being in the young people surveyed. But the
effects are so small — explaining at most 0.4% of the variation in well-being
— as to be of little practical value."

~~~
jccalhoun
It is pretty clear that many of the comments here didn't read the article.

------
neolefty
As a parent I try to focus on "constructive activity" rather than screen time
/ non-screen time. Which means really cultivating a love of accomplishment —
which can be encouraged, but ultimately it comes from inside them.

------
schu34
Maybe screen time isn't hurting well being in the short term but personally
I'll still err on the side of caution. We have 0 data on the long term effects
of screen time, which is what I'd be more concerned about anyway.

------
sytelus
TLDR; Screen time has very small negative impact on well being and does not
warrant policy change. The survey was done from 3 datasets with ~355K data
points.

Quote: _The association between digital technology use and adolescent well-
being is negative but small, explaining at most 0.4% of the variation in well-
being. These effects are too small to warrant policy change._

------
dennisgorelik
I spend most of my waking hours at my computer.

I do NOT consider it a problem that my kids spend a lot of time playing with
computers (smartphone, tablet, laptop) too.

------
joejerryronnie
I hope all the parents who are severely restricting screen time have also cut
potatoes out of their family’s diet.

------
nabla9
The paper uses Specification Curve Analysis (SCA). I have never heard of SCA
but it looks interesting.

------
dennisgorelik
This article does NOT answer "how much is too much?" question.

------
cablexl
my! We're in 2018 and still talking about the screen rotting your brain?

------
makz
Easy, when it starts hurting

------
qrbLPHiKpiux
My iPad screen time tells me exactly how long I’m sitting on the potty.

