

A lawyer's analysis of Bilbo's contract in The Hobbit - ValentineC
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/01/hobbit-contract-legal-analysis/

======
dustin
"...given the contract’s length and its role in the film... a lesser studio or
artist might have been tempted to go with several pages of lorum ipsum"

So he's basically praising pointless lawyering! :)

Or a more charitable reading: he's geeking out as we might about the terminal
commands in a 'hacker' movie.

------
obituary_latte
<off topic> I really can't stand it when websites like Wired usurp my back
button. They even do it in a way where:

\- Clicking back twice in rapid succession doesn't bring me back;

\- Clicking and holding back button and selecting HN doesn't take me back;

which is a feat few other websites manage to pull off. I wonder if they had a
team put together just for this purpose. Would have loved to be a fly on the
wall in one of those meetings.

"How can we keep people on our site longer?"

"Sir, I know! Lets not let them leave!"

"Brilliant! Someone make this guy CEO stat!"

Utterly frustrating and inexcusable for a technology website.

</sorry>

~~~
ineedtosleep
This pissed me off as much as you and I couldn't help, but take a few minutes
and dig into the site a little. I found the following:

* This only affects me in Chrome (using the dev channel).

* Firefox Aurora (20.0a2) with noscript off doesn't have the back button 'hijack'.

* A quick debug in Chrome with F8 (stop script execution) and immediately pressing back shows there's a few 'hidden' functions being run -- not sure how to view those quite yet.

~~~
obituary_latte
Oh man, you're much braver than I.

FWIW I'm on Chrome 24.0.1312.52 OSX.

I tried to take a gander but it's such a jumbled mess of affiliate/ad bs that
I doubt even they'd be able to fix it.

------
betawolf33
On the issue of the Dwarven Kingdom, the point about choice of law is further
complicated by the fact that Thorin, a party to the Contract, is the de jure
ruler of Erebor (or 'King Under the Mountain'), and, depending on the Folk of
Durin's constituional/legal tradition, could be considered a (even the only)
judge - or else might issue royal decrees to overturn a ruling.

As the Shire lacks an effective government, and particularly lacks awareness
of matters outside its borders, Bilbo could easily be strung up under a
foreign legal system if he crossed Thorin.

~~~
tarice
Concerning your point about Thorin being the only judge:

 _> Disputes arising between the Contract Parties shall be heard and judged by
an arbitrator of the Company’s choosing_

By that clause, the company should be able to choose Thorin as the arbitrator
regardless of the fact that he's the King Under the Mountain. That fact alone
would put Bilbo in dire straights if, like you said, he ever crossed Thorin.

------
dshep
Proof that a Lawyer can suck the life out of anything?

~~~
neumann_alfred
The Hobbit is a story for kids; and by the point grown men make million-dollar
budget movies out of it, there isn't much of the original life left, anyway.

The original contract is super short; the movie contract is extremely
bloated... maybe it really does take a lawyer to call that bloating "an
impressive piece of work". Impressive would have been to make a children's
movie out of a children's book, instead of doing whatever with it and staining
the careers of otherwise fine actors, just because it can't fight back and
money is nice to have.

If this offends anyone; good. The existance of all these movies, their
treatment of legit stories for children to turn them into brainless crap ala
Star Wars, offends me as well.

~~~
Osmium
> If this offends anyone; good. The existance of all these movies, their
> treatment of legit stories for children to turn them into brainless crap ala
> Star Wars, offends me as well.

Well, the inability to appreciate beauty or subtlety in a movie offends me.
What's the more brainless, the person who watches a movie and contemplates it,
or one who dismisses it without a thought?

~~~
neumann_alfred
_What's the more brainless, the person who watches a movie and contemplates
it, or one who dismisses it without a thought?_

Without a thought, and without paying attention to any indicators.. or merely
without watching the full-length movie? Huge difference. But I appreciate the
irony of telling me how my decision-making process goes without having the
faintest idea of it, not to mention my ability to appreciate beauty or
"subtlety". Subtlety.. I might watch The Hobbit one day just to think back to
this post and laugh.

~~~
Osmium
So you made your comment without having even seen the movie? That seems to
give you even less of a position from which to call something "brainless crap"
surely? If I've mis-spoken because I haven't fully appreciated your decision
making process, it's because you didn't make enough of an effort to articulate
it in the first place.

But whatever. I think I'll take a lesson from The Hobbit myself right now,
which is don't feed the trolls, for nothing good will come of it.

~~~
neumann_alfred
I've seen LOTR, and I read the book (at an appropriate age too haha). I "know"
The Hobbit is no less pompous and derpificated a conversion. Just looking at
_still images_ of it is enough for me. The good guys are good looking, the bad
guys are ugly, music tells you what to feel every step along of the way, all
of that crap; I know it, and I don't see anyone denying it. So I'm simply
trusting my intuition on this, you know?

How much shovelware do I have to take before I am allowed to skip one? I don't
even think Tolkien was the greatest author ever (there's just so much random
stuff in LOTR for example), but for me there is bounds and leaps more humanity
in one of any of those books than in all LOTR movies combined; so unless I
missed the dude remarking that LOTR was horrible, and that he is making The
Hobbit differently to make up for it, I know that for me this thing is going
to be neither subtle, nor beautiful. I just didn't want to point all of this
out in detail because it makes me seem like such a snob, I'll take the "troll"
thanks. If this stuff is fine art for you, I'll be rolling in the dirt having
fun.

~~~
jholman
> How much shovelware do I have to take before I am allowed to skip one?

Before you skip one? As much as suits your preference, of course!

But in this case, you took pride in offending other people, some of them with
more information than you (e.g. they watched the movie). And you appear to be
engaged in a protracted (3-comment) campaign to defend your analysis of the
movie. It should be obvious that this campaign is doomed to failure, given
that you explicitly admit ignorance of the actual subject matter. How much
shovelware do you have to take before you successfully persuade other HN
commenters of your analysis of the shovelware? Probably all of it.

I only mention all this as a suggestion on how to better enjoy your time
commenting on fora, and how to help others to better enjoy their time. Just a
suggestion, YMMV.

Maybe off-topic: I wasn't very impressed with the LOTR movie adaptation
either, and I'm not bothering to see The Hobbit. But, you know, whatever. The
books are available any time I want to re-read them. No big need to attempt to
offend passers-by with my disdain.

~~~
neumann_alfred
Well, I seem to have at least 5 peeps who silently agree -- two who vocally
disagree. And you didn't mention anything in the movie, you know, pointing out
a flaw in what I said; and you won't even watch it yourself - so what exactly
are you berating me for? lmao...

 _you explicitly admit ignorance of the actual subject matter_

Bullshit. Read it again, slowly this time.

 _No big need to attempt to offend passers-by with my disdain._

There is plenty of need. Nietzsche said "it's not your job to be a fly
swatter", and I was all like "fuck you Nietzsche, you can't tell me what to
do!". It's nice for you if that's not your thing, but not really relevant to
me otherwise.

~~~
icebraining
I can understand an appreciation, but a need seems pathological.

------
bjhoops1
Wow. Didn't realize a lawyer could have such nerd cred. Respect.

