

Services Worth Paying For as a Startup - eibrahim
http://www.emadibrahim.com/2009/01/29/services-worth-paying-for-as-a-startup/

======
tptacek
Us: OneBox virtual PBX, Basecamp, Campfire, bit of GitHub, Slicehost for one-
off servers, a managed colo.

I'm not sure Animoto was such a win for this guy; looks like a video just for
the sake of having a video.

I'm not sure AngelSoft was a win at all; this seems even less effective than
resume blasting services are for getting jobs.

If Basecamp was working well for him, I'm surprised he also needed RTM and
"Joe's Goals".

Would really like a solid recommendation on a mailing list hosting provider
(something like StreamSend); it is surprisingly hard to run even a private
mailing list without landing in the Yahoo and Gmail spam folders now.

~~~
jeremyw
re mailing lists / newsletters:

I've had good luck with campaignmonitor.com. You can pre-test your send
against ISP loopbacks for both spam filtering and final rendering checks. API
for list mgmt, plays well with design staff. And one hopes their email
standards project gains traction: <http://www.email-standards.org/> .

~~~
tptacek
Campaign Monitor looks awesome, but, like SendStream, it's for 1-to-many email
broadcasting. I need something more like a listserv.

~~~
davidw

        apt-get install mailman ?
    

It's not that hard to set up, especially if it's just some sort of internal
thing and you don't have to worry about things like clients. Even in that
case, with a bit of fiddling it should work just fine.

~~~
tptacek
Running mailing list software is trivial (I'm a qmail person, FWIW).

Running a mailing list that consistently delivers to Gmail and Ymail without
landing in spam boxes is a different story.

~~~
jeremyw
Tried implementing DKIM+DomainKeys and SPF? Haven't had problems since I did
that. (Though I don't run a big list via qmail -- only outgoing user notifies,
signup, etc.) I'm using a qmail-remote wrapper for dk computation.

------
fallentimes
As another data point, here's what we pay for at TicketStumbler headquarters:

GitHub, Light House, Amazon Prime, ATT's Usb Connect (back up internet),
Comcast, Softlayer, The Week (magazine), Wired, Quickbooks Online Edition,
Vonage

~~~
pclark
a super cool startup uses super cool services.

~~~
fallentimes
We're kind of forced to use Comcast :(, but they've actually been excellent.
They were awful for me when I lived in DC.

------
jwesley
This guy would have more credibility if the post wasn't filled with affiliate
links. The truth is that the right combination services will be unique to
every business.

~~~
eibrahim
Read the disclaimer on my article. Here it is again:

Disclaimer: I am sure you noticed that most of the links have a referral code.
Don’t worry, that didn’t affect my recommendations or integrity (what is
that?). I actually use all the services mentioned above. Plus we are
bootstrapped and the economy is in the crapper so give me a break and use
these links.

~~~
diN0bot
eibrahim,

your comments are getting down voted pretty bad. you're probably a nice guy,
and i hate seeing so many downvotes because, you know, that can feel bad.

i have to admit that i downvoted some of your comments, too. hopefully there
won't be a trainload of down votes.

anyway, i'd like to at least explain what i think is going on: i bet most of
us went to your blog post with an open mind about services that are worth
paying for. it's definitely a topic of conversation my partner and i have
pondered before. some aspects of the blog post are a little...vacuous. the
angelsoft one sounded particularly ridiculous to me. where's the meat of the
advice? the affiliate links makes things seem even more slimey.

ok, so those comments are made here, hopefully not to harshly (critical is
good, mean is not so good). your responses are defensive and, IMHO,
unthoughtful.

for example, this disclaimer doesn't address my concerns of bias at all. in
fact, it makes them worse!

> "Don't worry, that didn't affect my recommendations or integrity (what is
> that?)"

ok...you don't value integrity and don't have a reason for why your
recommendations have substance, which is bad in itself but somewhat insulting
in your view of readers.

i'm not sure i've communicated my point very well. ultimately, good luck, and
i hope by thinking about your comments they'll fair better in the future.

~~~
eibrahim
Thanks for the constructive criticism. Actually, I am not offended the
slightest bit. I was just being sarcastic and funny but I guess I didn't do a
good job.

~~~
diN0bot
cool. my experience with other cultures--which may or may not be relevant to
our exchange--is that humor and expected attitude vary wildly. i live with 8
other people, some for whom english is a second language, and humor is one of
those areas where it feels like we're always miscommunicating. the web only
exasperates this problem unless the site is obviously intended for hilarious
entertainment. at any rate, i think the hacker community at large responds
well to sincerity. remember that most of come here expecting intellectually
interesting problems and solutions, rather than entertainment.

~~~
ahoyhere
I don't mean to be a word nazi, but I think you mean "exacerbates."

It is a super cool word, and while it sounds like "exasperates," they are
actually totally different. :)

~~~
diN0bot
haha. doh! i seem to mix those up a lot when writing. not on porpoise, of
course.

------
gravitycop
The list:

    
    
      FreshBooks
      Basecamp
      DreamHost
      WooThemes
      Animoto
      Angelsoft.net
      StreamSend
      Remember The Milk
      Amazon Prime
      Amazon Web Services
      Joe’s Goals
    

The article also recommends the free Google services:

    
    
      Docs
      Calendar
      Mail
      Analytics
      Reader

~~~
eibrahim
Thanks for the summary, but you will be missing all the humor - it takes a lot
of energy, coffee and cigarettes to add humor. And no, I don't feel bad that I
spent an hour writing it :).

PS: No refund offered if article not found humorous

------
pclark
Why pay for basecamp when unfuddle has a great free version?

I strongly recommend avoiding dreamhost. A Small Orange .com are far better,
and only a little more money - its a balance.

I read advice, and agree, that you should never have to pay to apply for angel
investment. Seems bizarre - If I were an investor and someone had just spent
$250 to ask for _more_ money ... Angel Investors try to make themselves as
accessible as possible - go network! :)

Just my thoughts.

~~~
eibrahim
Thanks for the advice.

One thing I don't get is why people comment on hacker news and not at the
actual blog post??? Sure it gives the link more points and push it to the top
which will generate more traffic, but wouldn't it be more helpful if this
comment was at the actual article so others reading it can benefit from it?
Just a thought.

~~~
TooMuchNick
Karma whores.

But seriously, mostly we care more about talking to the HN community than we
do about adding value to your article. When you say "more helpful," you mean
more helpful to _you_ and _your_ readers. "More helpful" to me might mean more
accessible to Hacker News.

Get used to this. The more your startup gets covered, the less control you'll
have over the conversation.

~~~
eibrahim
Don't get me wrong, I love hacker news. I just wish there was a way to
integrate this great discussion with my article. Wordpress hacker news plugin
anyone?

------
alain94040
I wouldn't pay for angelsoft. If you think fundraising is done by submitting
an online application to hundreds of angels and paying $250 to do so... all I
can say is a fool and his money are easily parted.

~~~
eibrahim
I have never raised money before but I thought reaching so many investors for
$250 is definitely worth it. It would cost me $250 to fly somewhere and meet
ONE investor.

But like I said in my post, I don't know how effective it is. I will update my
post in a couple of weeks with more information on its effectiveness.

~~~
pclark
where are you based?

if you don't know any investors (if only by name) you're not networking hard
enough.

~~~
diN0bot
It sounds like you have experience here. Do you have more networking advice or
information referrals.

My startup is based in Boston. We have some MIT and Harvard professors on our
board of advisors, but we don't have other connections to networks and
investors, and our advisor board hasn't been able to give us good leads. We've
engaged in fund-raising efforts through letters and applications, as well as
by going to relevant conferences, sometimes on the schedule, sometimes just
passing out stickers on the side (or the street when they kick us out). We
talk to a lot of people and have a vibrant but fluxful volunteer community.
How do we find investors? (or grants; we're currently a non-profit, but we
have revenue models and would be ok with employing a for-profit partner model)
thx (diN0bot @t bilumi org)

~~~
pclark
I'm no expert on this - I'm in Cambridge, UK and seeking investment. Just my
experiences on what _I'm_ doing :)

There's a few guys and girls, three or four - that I'm actively seeking. I
found them from networking with cool startups and seeing who they recommended.
[If you're curious, I'm looking for some guys at Index and Cambridge Angels]

I think then you have to really get "out there" and go to every
business/startup/investment meetup/conference with a fistful of business
cards. I've met some really interesting people who have offered various
introductions.

I dont want to make it sound like you should "use" people for their contacts.
Meet awesome people who are interesting and help them out - and just hope
they'll repay you the favour. :)

Linkedin & YouNoodle are really great for this stuff - just be as sociable as
possible.

------
froo
I liked that you used Animoto for a promo video, but I found my interest
waning after about a minute and I eventually switched it off (the quick cuts
don't work well with longer vids)

I think if you concentrated 1 or 2 ideas into each video and instead created
several videos it would have more impact.

Just a thought :)

~~~
eibrahim
Great suggestion. I tend to lose interest after a minute or so as well - damn
ADD.

------
iuguy
We use Google Apps Premier, Salesforce (which is awesome) and Gradwell for
VoIP (similarly awesome).

We're just about to start using Amazon S3 with some encryption for secondary
backup.

~~~
tptacek
What do you like about Salesforce?

~~~
lv_
please answer what you like about salesforce, vs. a nice customized
installation of vtiger or sugar?

------
wastedbrains
Our quick list...

github, lighthouse, AWS, Broadband, wireless broadband, Vonage, 1 server off
amazon...

that is about it for us.

------
Tunecrew
our list was:

Google Apps Premier Edition for mail/calendar/docs Google Analytics Godaddy as
registrar Slicehost Callcentric for VOIP + Snom phones Flow Jamaica for
internet (15 Mbps cable) + local phones Yousendit (paid) Constant Contact

------
eibrahim
Wow... I thought I was posting something useful for other startups and
entrepreneurs, but for some reason, I am getting crucified in here :) Whew!!!
tough crowd.

~~~
Shamiq
Yea, that's life on the internet for ya.

------
callmeed
The article seems to be based on the premise that "we're bootstrapped, here's
the essentials" ... but you're paying to submit to angel investors. Why? If
you're able to bootstrap your company, you don't need angel funding (a later
vc round, maybe).

I do like your writing style though.

~~~
eibrahim
Excellent observation. I think the problem is that I am currently at the
crossroads of being bootstrapped and also considering funding. We have a ton
of things that need to be done and can't really do them while bootstrapped.
For example, we need an iPhone app and unfortunately, I don't develop for the
iPhone. I can probably pick it up pretty quick but I don't have the time
(resources) to invest in learning it and would rather pay someone to do it -
hence the need for funding.

Thanks for the compliment.

------
okeumeni
" It is so low, I want to pay extra with my bill (but I won’t)."

Saying this for the only service you're actually paying for say much about
what you truly believe about paying for startup services.

------
imp
Don't forget Clicky Analytics.

------
lionhearted
Personal experience: Dreamhost is the suck. What I saved in hosting fees, I
lost due to downtime ("oops, our bad") and absolutely no customer support to
call and wonder what the hell is going on. I did some research into hosting,
so did an Information Architect friend of mine, and Slicehost has got a good
blend of price/reliability. Dreamhost, if you're doing anything with a decent
margin or lifetime value of a customer, is a big no-no. Really big.

Important business mantra: "Always pay well for money." Hosting that's up
falls into this category.

------
sscheper
I'm a huge fan of Jott over RTM... I can't understand what's so great about
RTM ;-)

~~~
theBobMcCormick
I wasn't very sure about RTM either until I read this:
[http://sheenonline.biz/2008/06/super-charge-remember-the-
mil...](http://sheenonline.biz/2008/06/super-charge-remember-the-milk-with-
smart-lists-and-tags/)

There's still some things I'd like to see change about RTM, but discovering
how to really get the most out of smart-lists and tags made me appreciate RTM
a lot more.

