
Ask HN: Tips for writing compelling web copy. - pmjoyce
I'm in the planning phase for the redesign of my SaaS application as it launches out of private beta and into the wild.  Part of that is writing the sales and marketing copy including explaining what the product is, it's benefits, calls to action etc.<p>Writing decent web copy isn't a strong suit of mine but I would like to get a better grounding in some of the basic principles.  Do any of you have any tips or pointers to good source material I can read up on?  I don't expect to turn into Don Draper overnight, but I'd like to be able to avoid common pitfalls.<p>Failing that, do any of you have any experience with decent copywriters and, given that I'm a bootstrapped single founder who has finite runway (i.e. I don't have tons of cash to throw at this problem), any personal recommendations for individuals you've worked with?<p>EDIT: Spelling, grammar and, er, general copy :/
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il
Read Scientific Advertising by Claude Hopkins, the granddaddy of all
copywriting books. Do it now. It's very short, it's available online for free,
and it has no fluff and all useful information.

It was written a few years ago, so it doesn't have the latest techniques for
maximizing conversions for SaaS products.

However, it's written for direct response advertisers and not brand
advertisers, so it covers the basics of getting sales, tracking, split
testing, etc very well.

You can take the techniques Hopkins presents for writing short, effective
classified ads and apply them very effectively, with minimal modification, to
your AdWords ads and landing pages.

These techniques have been tested by dozens of advertisers since, and they
work VERY well.

A good copywriter will usually charge $10-$15K plus a percentage of sales. I
would strongly recommend bringing your copy skills to "Good enough" and doing
it yourself.

~~~
rarestblog
Ok, I've got to ask. $15K for one text? Percentage? It's THREE orders of
magnitude more other than other general text writing. How can this be
justified? (Kind of looks like daylight robbery to me)

~~~
il
If good copy can result in even a 10% increase in sales for a mass market
product, that could be worth millions of dollars, much more than $15K. This
isn't for a blurb, it's for several thousand words of copy(think something
like a 10 page salesletter, or all pages on a website).

Keep in mind that writing the actual text is a very small portion of the work.
90% of a good copywriter's time is spent researching your competitors,
customers, and target market...understanding your product in great detail to
fully highlight its benefits...finding which psychological hot buttons exist
in the specific segment of the market you want to target, and how to push them
in just the right way to create a red-hot burning desire in your prospect's
minds to buy your product NOW.

To write good copy, you need an absolute understanding or a market, basically
all of the steps of a comprehensive market research project. This takes time
and money.

You can definitely find someone to write you an article for a few bucks. It
won't convert, and it won't represent your product/startup in the best way.

That's why I recommend startup founders learn the basics and write good copy
themselves, You already know your product and customers best- you can skip the
through research a copywriter would have to engage in.

~~~
_delirium
If it's a skill people can learn with reasonable effort, though, why would it
be that expensive to purchase? In a market without artificial moats, the cost
of services should approach the cost of providing them, not approach some
measure of their "value". Even if a service is really valuable, in a
competitive market with low barriers to entry, many people will compete to
provide it, driving down the prevailing price.

~~~
petewailes
Simple version: you can learn it in the same way you can learn to paint. Sure,
you might be able to knock out a decent picture, but you're not going to get
something that looks like it was painted by one of the masters of the craft.

Knowing the theory and being able to produce great work are two different
things. The price is what it is because, despite it being learn-able, the
experience of writing thousands of pages of sales copy, refining them and
getting the craft so down to a fine art just comes from experience and
practise.

------
petercooper
Sadly I haven't got the time to give as detailed an answer as this deserves
but.. even if you do the lion's share of the writing yourself, at least hire a
professional writer to give it the once over once you're done in order to
catch any particularly bad syntax or constructions (and to get another set of
eyes over it, too). This should only take a couple hours of their time if it's
a typical SaaS site and would be worth the $50-$200 peace of mind. I give this
advice as someone who's written for a living for > 10 years and who still
benefits significantly from third parties looking over his work.

------
kalid
Copyblogger (<http://www.copyblogger.com/>) is a pretty good resource.

~~~
shankarg
I second that. It is a great resource for not just bloggers, for web copy
related tips in general.

Take a look at their series of 'Magnetic Headlines' posts:
<http://www.copyblogger.com/magnetic-headlines/>

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niccolop
I think I have mentioned this before, but an excellent guide to advertising
copy can be found in: David Ogilvy's Confessions of an Advertising Man (ISBN
1-904915-01-9).

It's considered a seminal text among copy writers. I found it very helpful,
for exactly this purpose.

~~~
pmjoyce
Thanks for the tip, amazon has my order. Does he delve much into online copy
writing techniques? I'd imagine it's quite a different beast to traditional
print/display advertising.

~~~
niccolop
He doesn't per se discuss online copy writing... it was written in the 60s :-)

But he talks about direct response ads, which can be seen in light of A/B
testing, on web pages. For example, by changing one word, the response rate
was increased 20-30%.

I earnestly don't think it's that different a beast. The techniques always
remain the same, so why not learn from the master?

For more recently written stuff, I think groupon do a really good job, and you
can find their stuff online:
<https://docs.google.com/View?id=dmv9rbh_11gtqx983t>

~~~
pmjoyce
I've ordered the book, even if it's not current it might help put me in the
frame of mind I need to approach this. Thanks for the Groupon link.

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gallerytungsten
The opening words of Strunk & White were never more applicable: vigorous
writing is concise.

Keep it short and to the point. Test it on readers. Do they understand? Great
writing is produced by great editing. An iterative process.

The $10-15k comment sounds wacky to me. You can hire a decent editor off your
local craigslist for 25-50 an hour. But you probably need to bring it in-
house; you'll need to pivot your prose points pretty phrequently.

PS:

"Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words,
a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing
should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts. This
requires not that the writer make all his sentences short, or that he avoid
all detail and treat his subjects only in outline, but that every word tell."

[http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=the+element...](http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=the+elements+of+style+strunk+white&sourceid=mozilla-
search)

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sahillavingia
I useful trick I learned is to try and avoid a "Features" link (unless you
have a very deep app). The user should be able to tell if the app has the
features he wants from the front page.

Also, sell. I learned the hard way that under-promising in order to over-
deliver may work for the users that do sign up, but it's not worth it for the
actual drop in users that do.

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iuguy
There's a lot of good advice here. If you can find a good marketer, it might
make sense to use them in the short term while you study up on the reference
materials here. There's no reason why you can't attempt to come up with some
copy at the same time as the marketing agency and see how you do.

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Ataraxy
Go to amazon and search for the book called 'Cashvertising".

~~~
1-2-3
Cashvertising

Cheesy name, excellent book.

An ad execuetive split tests common copywriting techniques. Very helpful
<http://www.cashvertising.com/>

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bloggergirl
I've been writing web copy for 7 years, and, although the advertising guys
referenced so far (e.g., Hopkins, Ogilvy) are great, their tricks focus
largely on direct response (i.e., long form letters). Use those tricks for
writing PPC ad headlines, etc -- but be careful on your website.

On your site, your copy should set a tone for your service; get your value
proposition right; be scannable; and err on the side of clear rather than
clever.

Tone can be tricky because it's easy to get carried away... but check out
Mint.com for examples of how to stay light & friendly but also professional &
credible. As for your value proposition, check out MarketingExperiments for
their tips on writing a value prop that resonates --- and that goes beyond
"save time and money" (which every company seems to default to, making that
phrase totally meaningless).

Regarding scannability, that one's pretty straightforward. Short, snappy
headlines. Bullet lists with 3-4 bullets; concise copy in your bullets. No
paragraphs over 3 _lines_ long. Bolding used only for things that will be
important to users (not just things you wish they would care about). Great
typography to help users see the words they're supposed to. Not too much
dedication to the rules of grammar (keep the reading level at about grade 5 or
6; Word can help you run tests to see what level your copy's at).

As for clear over clever, that means writing "88% of our users saved 6 hours
on payroll last month" rather than "Payroll, meet your match".

(SEO, persuasion, emotion, etc. can always follow after you launch.)

If all else fails, I'm happy to read over your copy and offer recommendations.
I'm at joanna AT page99test DOT com. Good luck!

~~~
photon_off
I remember the page99 video submission here, I was impressed and the name
stuck. How did you go about making those videos, and which one did you end up
picking? I loved the second one, by the way :)

I'm going to drop you a line via e-mail, because I'm going to do an overhaul
of <http://www.dashler.com/toolbar> , and could certainly use some advice if
you have a few minutes to spare. At the moment, I'm almost embarrassed by it.

Best of luck with page99, I have a couple of writer friends that might like to
check it out if there's a private beta available.

