
Non-Creepy Networking: Party Etiquette - wallflower
http://jessicahische.is/helpingyoubelesscreepy
======
afandian
Business cards come out when you've had an interesting conversation with
someone and you want to stay in contact for one reason or another.

If you need to find an excuse to hand one over, you've wasted money and
materials. The person on the receiving end hasn't demonstrated that they want
one, and you have demonstrated to them that you don't value them.

~~~
gedrap
Exactly! Once a guy walked up to me "Do you have a job?" "Yeah" "Well have the
business card anyway" and walked away. I will remember him but probably not in
a way he/the company would like to.

------
joelrunyon
_have a fun and honest excuse about why you absolutely must give them out.

> I’m sorry, I just got 500 business cards made and I’ll feel like such an
> idiot if I don’t give at least one of them out at this party.

> I’m dying to get new cards made but I will feel like such a tree-destroyer
> if I don’t get rid of these first—have one!_

None of those sound like either fun or honest "excuses"

~~~
RBerenguel
> As the great card overlord I salute you. Here, join the ranks of my army by
> taking one of these. For the glory of the business card empire!

------
dmd
The biggest problem I seem to have in these situations is that I can't
remember people visually.

If I'm introduced to you, and we talk for half an hour, I __will not recognize
you __an hour later. If you remind me who you are, then of course I 'll
remember the conversation and your name and everything, but I just have zero
visual memory of people.

This is even to the extent that my wife once sat down next to me on the train
(we didn't usually make the same train), and I spent the entire trip thinking
"I think I know this woman from somewhere, maybe?" before she finally couldn't
hold it in any more and told me who she was.

(Yes, I score in the bottom 5% of prosopagnosia tests.)

~~~
olalonde
I had the same problem with Chinese people but I'm much better now (I live in
China). Here's a funny story. I had been dating this girl for a few days and I
once walked past her on the street without recognizing her. She said something
like "Hey Oli" and I immediately realized it was the girl I was dating. I had
to pretend I was looking at the floor and didn't see her face but that was a
lie.

~~~
dmd
Pretty much, yeah. Now imagine the same thing, but it's your wife of 5 years.

~~~
olalonde
Wow, you have it pretty bad! Did you ever see yourself in a picture or in a
mirror without recognizing it was you?

~~~
dmd
In a mirror I know it's me. Pictures, it's hit or miss.

------
noelwelsh
Good article on a good skill to learn.

The number one issue at these events (or at least the geeky ones I go to) is
everyone sticks like glue to the people they already know. Safety in numbers
and all that. The article only briefly touches on getting into conversations
(in "Go to the party alone") so a few things that work for me:

\- Getting talking to a big group is hard; it's easier with singles or
couples.

\- The drinks or food line is a chance to get talking to people when they've
peeled off from their group. Chat to the person behind you (it is easier to
initiate eye contact). If the conversation is promising and it's an open bar,
ask them what they're getting when you place their order. Saves them a bit of
time and keeps the conversation going.

\- People standing around a table? Say "excuse me", put your drink/food down
on the table, and start a conversation. Leading with something about said
food/drink is the obvious way to start.

Yes, food and drink are really handy props!

~~~
peterwwillis
This behavior can seem a little... creepy. I wouldn't recommend ambushing
people; sometimes you just want to get some food or use the bathroom without
being bum-rushed by a random creep.

Put down the food and drink (it just looks like you're clinging to a safety
blanket). Try talking to a huge group out of nowhere and find someone whose
body language says they actually want to talk to you. And try not to talk
about obvious things as small talk. ("The crab dip is amazing, isn't it?"
"Yeah, it is!" Now where's the conversation going to go? Nowhere.)

~~~
MortenK
You consider striking up a conversation to a person behind you in the
food/drinks line as "bum-rushing by a random creep"? Jesus Christ, I really
don't think you should be dishing out conversation / networking advice!

~~~
encoded
Bum-rushing is, IMO, strong, but the problem with striking up a conversation
with someone in a line, is that they're more or less a captive audience. If,
for some reason, they'd prefer not to speak with you, they have to leave their
place in order to do so, and forcing that on them isn't really polite, or
fair.

~~~
boats
Or they communicate via their body language that they aren't interested in a
conversation at the moment which you read, understand, and respect by ending
the conversation.

------
sfjailbird
You are overthinking it.

If it doesn't come naturally to you (like the author by her own admission),
there is likely a good reason that you find it uncomfortable. Like maybe you
actually don't have anything interesting to share. Or you don't really care
about the people you are meeting. In either case, no point in faking it or
pretending, find a social context that you actually enjoy.

Lots of people are shy in general gatherings but completely light up in the
company of others who share their (geeky) interests.

~~~
personlurking
"Or you don't really care about the people you are meeting."

I've been to very few of these events and at one I approached one of the
people who gave a short talk earlier in the evening to merely ask him more
about his business. Towards the end of my first spoken sentence to the guy, he
turned to his female cohort and blurted, "wow, did you hear that, Kristy?" (as
she sticks her hand in front of me, while he walks away). It all happened in
the span of 5 seconds and I couldn't decide if it was just really smooth on
his part (being a seasoned networker) or really douchey. I decided it was
both.

'Kristy' was also pouring some drinks for some other people at the moment and
thus couldn't talk after the initial handshake.

~~~
woebtz
Whoa, unless I'm completely reading this the wrong way, this sounds like a
classic Jerry Seinfeld anecdote: a guy eating at a restaurant notices Jerry
Seinfeld sitting at a table across the way with a woman and some children.
Being a fan of the show, the guy feels compelled to say hello and meet one of
his favorite TV stars. He's nearly done with his own meal and after Seinfeld's
table's orders have been taken, he makes his approach:

"Mr. Seinfeld! Hi, I'm ____. I'm a huge fan of your work...", the guy says
with eyes gleaming.

Seinfeld briefly glances at the man and then turns towards the woman he's
seated next to and smiles.

"Would it be a bother to ask you for a picture?", the guy continues.

Without missing a beat, Jerry blurts out, "_____, can you believe it? A person
would walk up to me, ME, while I'm taking my family out to a nice family
dinner, interrupt us, and then have the nerve to ask me for a picture. A
picture? Can you believe it? Some people!"

Jerry never breaks eye-contact with the woman and never again acknowledges the
guy standing by his table and family. The guy eventually slumps away back to
his table, pays for his meal, and leaves.

------
ps4fanboy
I really despise the word creepy, its like rapey and its used to slander men
all the time.

~~~
Jtsummers
That's not really relevant to this article though. It's not "Men: How to not
creep out women when networking". It's "People: How to not creep out people
when networking".

~~~
dsuth
I was really expecting the former when I clicked the link. Pity, that would
have made a better, more directed post IMO

------
alanctgardner2
The best advice I've ever heard about networking had to be "keep asking
questions". If you want to initiate a conversation, try to learn about the
other person. A lot of people (myself included) think, "Oh, I'll start with a
hilarious anecdote about myself" (or a joke about the venue, comment about the
event, etc.). This is terrible, and it gives the other person nowhere to go -
either they agree and say yes, or they disagree and you're fucked. If you open
the conversation by getting the other person to talk, you can pay attention
and think about what they say. At this point they're either genuinely
interesting, and you keep going, or you politely find an excuse and get the
hell out. Let people talk about themselves, but don't get glued to a middle
manager at a carpet factory for an hour because he has a million stories about
accidentally delivering the wrong pile, or whatever.

------
scrrr
If you have something interesting to say, say it. If not, don't speak. I
sometimes dream of a world where this is the norm.

That's why networking is such an "awful word".

Also: Produce something of value for the world and networking happens
automatically anyway.

~~~
EliRivers
_I sometimes dream of a world where this is the norm._

It's a horrible dream. A great deal of human (vocal) social interaction
consists of saying things that aren't actually interesting. Nods and "uh huhs"
and other such noises, and conversations doing no more than confirming to each
other what the weather is like at the moment and how nice/unpleasant that is,
and so on. It exists for a reason, and that reason is not to impart
interesting information.

~~~
kmtrowbr
'I see friends shaking hands, saying "how do you do?" But what they're really
saying is "I love you."' Small-talk is about finding out common interests,
catching up, and expressing your interest in, respect for, and care for other
people. If in doubt, just ask a few questions and let the other person talk:
"Have you had a good day?" "How are things going for you these days?" "How
have you been feeling?"

------
snowpolar
"Don’t be a “close talker”."

"Everyone has different needs in terms of personal space, and one of the
fastest ways to creep someone out is to get too close to them when having a
conversation. If you google “personal space diagram” you’ll see all sorts of
sociological visualizations of the degrees of person proximity okay-ness."

Reminds me of a ex-friend who always said I'm only a normal friend and yet we
always have conversations that I would say is in the very very inner of a
personal-space diagram.

PS: We r no longer friends due to a misunderstanding. I miss her.

~~~
poolpool
o no bb wat happened?

~~~
sp332
That's incredibly condescending and uncalled for. I would say "this doesn't
belong on hn" but in fact, you shouldn't make fun of anyone, ever.

~~~
simoncion
Much social bonding is accomplished by gently making fun of one another. If
you strip that out, you lose a valuable social tool.

~~~
sp332
My comment may also have been a little rushed :) Making fun of someone using
'r' for "are" by harping on a relationship problem that obviously still hurts
is kinda out of line though.

------
girvo
Nice post.

For leaving a conversation, I rarely bother with an excuse, I just say
something similar to "Hey it's been really awesome meeting you, $person. Ill
definitely $contact_in_future_plan!"

Seems to work just fine :)

------
saurik
> If you hover too long without saying anything, it’s extra creepy.

This is a networking event: if I walk up to your clique and you just ignore
me, forcing me to stand there until I give up and leave in frustration before
you acknowledge my presence and ask who I am, it is not me that is being
"rude". It is this kind of isolationist belief that makes it impossible to
accumulate groups of people: be charismatic, and make everyone who comes near
you get pulled into your conversation; if someone is just standing there, say
something to them, don't leave them hanging.

Seriously: this article is dangerously wrong on almost everything it tries to
cover (the only parts that are on target are the parts at the end about escape
and not being drunk); I only chose that one example because no one else here
had complained about it yet, but the real complaint that needs to be made is a
general "no, don't listen to this article, there are too many issues with it
to cover and the result is you are going to come off creepier".

[time passes as I look at the article again after having looked at the
comments here] Actually, no, I also need to pick on these parts, because I'm
actively concerned someone will take them to heart:

> A great way to start a conversation with someone you admire (before you say
> anything about them or their work), is to compliment them on something
> they’re wearing.

Is the idea that this advice is just for women? Because otherwise, this is
absolutely _deadly_ advice: as a man, walking up to a woman at a networking
event, talking about something other than work (which is also suggested in
this article) and leading with a clothing compliment is _not_ "business
networking" and is _not_ going to be appreciated by many women. (And if the
person you are approaching is a man, he is going to take it as flirting,
frankly whether you are yourself male or female ;P.)

> In every social interaction, one person usually leads with the greeting and
> the other person goes with it. They have to. If the person you’re meeting
> goes in for a hug, ...

Now, pair that previous paragraph with this mentality that the person leading
a greeting gets to choose its level of intimacy: that a hug is appropriate,
and if that's what happens first everyone should be forced to go along with
it... this is not OK. To be clear: I'm a "hugger", but I would never _greet_
someone _at a business networking event_ with a hug unless I was _trying_ to
be creepy.

I can only imagine how bad the result would be taking this attitude and
combining it with the specific advice I complained about in the previous
paragraph would be construed. I realize the advice was for the receiver, but
without concrete advice for the initiator, I think this gives the wrong
impression of the dynamic and will lead to unwelcome situations.

Here's my very simple advice: walk up to people, if in the US (probably
elsewhere as well, but customs differ and you should learn the local protocol)
hold out your hand for a handshake, say "hello, my name is ____", wait for
their name, and then ask "what do you do?" and try to get genuinely interested
in their response. Do not introduce yourself with a spiel about yourself: they
don't care yet and won't really listen anyway.

Note: while most people will answer this about their job, some people will
self-select into more personal hobbies. This is fine, and is the non-creepy
way for this to happen, but you are here to business network, so when you've
exhausted that topic (and not before, as you don't want to act disinterested)
ask them what brings them to the event: this will likely shift them back to
their job in a non-awkward way. If they don't talk about a job here, just use
this answer in the next section (as it will still be somewhat "functional").
(If they are being actively evasive they probably just don't want to business
network with you and the non-"creepy" thing would be to thank them for talking
to you and excuse yourself.)

At some point they will feel the need to ask you what you do, as you've now
spent so long actually caring about what they do (something that is probably
sadly rare as everyone wants to talk about themselves). Now you get to tell
them how awesome your job is, and as you already know so much about them you
can pitch yourself in a way that they will best understand and that hopefully
demonstrates some kind of synergy. This will hopefully cause them to start
getting interested in you enough to start asking you follow-up questions.

At the very end of this conversation, you ask them for a card; if they cared
about the conversation enough to ever think about contacting you later (and
again, this should be due to the business synergy), they will now ask you for
a card: you don't need or want some silly excuse for why you are shoving cards
at people (as this article suggests), you want to make the other person wish
they had your card. If they don't ask you for a card, you "failed", but
forcing them to take your card just so they can throw it away later doesn't
fix anything.

(I started typing up something about approaching groups, but it got way too
complex, and I'm typing on my iPhone ;P.)

~~~
gedrap
Fair points! While I enjoyed reading the post, I just feel it's not really
targeted for a (stereo?)typical HNer - introverted nerd. So some advices feel
wrong.

I have been at a designers meetup-party once out of curiosity and the vibe,
atmosphere there is totally different from more nerdy events. And the tips
suggested in the post would have worked, I guess.

~~~
saurik
We might have different definitions of "nerd", but I often do events that are
not tech-focussed, including conferences for advertising sales people,
luncheons for donors to my university, and VIP networking events for functions
that are mostly politicians and lawyers. I will admit, though, that I know
very very little about designers ;P.

To me, the core problems with the advice in this article are really general.
As I primarily complained about, it encourages behaviors that, from talking
extensively with female colleagues about "women at tech conferences" issues, I
believe if applied by a man to a woman would come off as "not respecting me
for my function but instead how I look and my personal life" (which is why I
wonder if this advice is specifically targeted to women; but even then I think
it would be suboptimal: to a man it will come off as flirting and to a woman
you will seem to be promoting a stereotype they are probably trying to avoid).

But additionally, I think it ignores really general "how to make someone want
something you have" strategies that apply to all kinds of situations (from
sales to dating). These are the complaints I litter through my own advice:
that you want to make them ask about you, and you only win if you get them to
ask for your card. The article has you introducing yourself with a spiel about
how awesome you are and handing the other person your card "because you have
too many".

To see how unsuccessful of a strategy that will be in the more general case,
redraft the situation to trying to give your phone number to someone at a bar:
humorously, now the "don't talk about work" thing could be useful (as they are
probably mentally trying to get away from work ;P), but introducing yourself
with a spiel that tries to make yourself sound cool that has nothing to do
with the other person's interests, and then handing them your phone number
with an excuse like "my friend insisted I give my number to 10 people tonight"
may get someone desperate who found you amusingly awkward to call you if you
"play the numbers game" (and thereby might even feel like "success"), but it
wasn't really the winning strategy to obtain high-value connections.

(Note: the part about the "spiel" I'm getting from the section about
introductions and specifically the end part with the "biggest tip" that seems
to actively discourages saying "hi my name is ___, what's yours?". This tip
was very confusing to interpret, however, as it seemed to both provide a valid
praise regarding humility when meeting a celebrity while at the same time
pointing out that the other person doesn't know who you are and you should
explain, seemingly without them asking. It might be that was just a mixed
example, showing how Paul Rudd didn't assume you knew his name. Even if I read
this wrong, and the more I think about it I wonder if I did, I think much more
concrete advice about how to make this work is useful, as I tried to provide
in my earlier comment, and my core complaint was around the business card
strategy anyway.)

------
examancer
Non-creepy networking step 1:

Don't make plans for a "weekend at a weird naked hippie spa together" during
your first conversation.

Seriously, this article starts out a bit creepy and then follows it mostly
with stuff that should be common sense, even for an introvert like me. I did
find some of the excuses for non-awkwardly ending a conversation to be decent.
Might add a few of those to my list.

------
pasbesoin
Focus on what you can do for the other party. Whether it's just listening, or
troubleshooting, or taking advantage of a natural rapport to bring a chuckle.

This does _not_ involve or imply becoming a doormat. The thing needs to be
_mutually_ enjoyable / beneficial.

Then, when someone offers to help _you_ , you'll recognize when the offer is
genuine and you are not "imposing".

Some connections -- many? -- are simply a dead end. Don't "push it", with
these -- for the other party's sake as well as your own.

------
peterwwillis
This post has a lot of good points, but i'd like to counter some too.

If your nature is to be creepy, trying to fight it isn't going to work; you
can't fix creepy, as a friend once told me. But you can learn to be creepy in
a good way (that is far too long for me to explain here). Just be friendly,
confident, happy, and talk like you don't care what people think of you. If
you don't normally do those things, fake it. If you find that difficult, _fake
it harder._

If you go to a party alone you'll seem extra creepy because you have no
friends and nobody to build social karma off of. If you're going to be creepy,
make it seem like people enjoy your creepiness - the best way to do this is to
bring a non-creepy friend to talk to occasionally. But you won't stick to them
the whole party. Also, nobody introduces themselves at the bar line unless
they want something from you, so don't worry about how seeming popular might
put them off of talking to you.

Interrupting people has to do with opening up groups and changing
conversations. You can do it and risk seeming rude, but if properly executed
you can join someone else's group dynamic and refocus the conversation.

Don't fall for the passive/submissive greeting crap. How you greet someone,
and how you let them greet you, matters greatly - especially in unknown power
dynamics where you're trying to get a leg up in social or business standing.
Only greet people the way you want to greet them. You do not have an
obligation to please everyone or bow to whatever awkward/unwanted social norms
they conform to. In the worst case, you trying to mimic their custom might
come out even more awkward, which isn't helping your creepy case. You don't
have to give every stranger consent to grope or kiss you if you don't want.

The best way to introduce yourself to someone you admire is to feign ignorance
and treat them like a random joe schmoe. Don't fawn over their clothes or
their work. Basically, don't worry about anything at all; make small talk if
you want, but don't think too hard about it. Ask them direct questions about a
subject you're interested in, as being genuine is hard to fake. And don't be
more respectful of their time than any other random at the bar; they're an
adult, they'll move on if they feel like it.

And honestly, if you find yourself still talking when the place closes down?
Good on you! Life's too short to head home before you seem "awkward".

~~~
jessedhillon
I believe this post is a satire of HN, or the obviousness of party/networking
advice...? Very funny, if so.

------
dsirijus
I'm in favor of playing to one's strengths. You're not really keen on
networking and it doesn't really suite you? Fine, don't network. You're much
better market fit for being better at what you already do well, than being
average at what you do bad.

------
benched
I weep for the rampant explosion of the use of the word "creepy" in the last
decade. Someone leering at your ass, or asking if you want to go back to their
room to watch fetish porn, is _not the same thing_ as being socially awkward.

It's as if people have collectively realized that awkwardness can be a little
like figurative social 'death', but then instead of promoting discourse about
how to forgive this triviality, everybody says 'No, it might signal something!
It's death! We must avoid death!'

~~~
parennoob
Fight it. I do. Whenever someone (stupidly, IMHO) uses "creepy" to refer to a
socially awkward guy or girl (in my experience, it is mostly women, and
sometimes men who use this epithet about socially awkward men), I generally
point out that they are essentially engaging in the same sort of "ugh, he's
not cool, let's get away from him" dance that they did in high school.

Also the author seems a good candidate for being socially awkward "creepy"
person herself. Examples:

\- #6 "Don’t talk about work. You can of course compliment someone on
something they’ve done if you want." Wait what? I thought you were supposed to
be networking -- why can't you talk about work? Are you supposed to talk about
something _personal_ they have done? Remember that people's careers are often
crucified for making "unprofessional" remarks cause the person they were
talking to (or the person behind them they were _not_ talking to) can tweet
about it or suchlike.

\- #7 "I definitely find the process of exchanging cards to be incredibly
awkward." Um, "Here's my card". If the other person takes it, fine. Otherwise
don't take it personally.

Looks to me as if the author is projecting advice for dealing with her own
specific set of social neuroses as being "non-creepy networking at a party".

