
Why I don’t like hackathons - AndrewDucker
http://infotrope.net/2014/11/28/why-i-dont-like-hackathons-by-alex-bayley-aged-39-12/
======
chovy
haha. that's hilarious. i worked at a company that was trying to change its
image from 'sweatshop' to 'we know tech' image (like a google or facebook).
What better way did they think to accomplish this than to have 30 of their
engineers work for 24 hours straight developing features they were too stupid
to come up with on their own!...oh yeah, they had a ping pong table too...so
its all good. And shitty pizza.

I'm 40 now, and i remember my manager was like "You going to the hackathon? I
want you there." I'm like "are you kidding me? I'm not coding for 24 hours
straight with no sleep...and then have to come into work the next day...damn
dude, if you're going to have us do a 24 hour session, at least do it during
the day (not a weekend)"

He really had no response for that.

the kicker was 1st place was a $50 starbucks gift card.

~~~
paulojreis
Was it a "big corp"? I work at one, and sometimes they do these kind of
initiatives, to sound "hip" and all that jazz. They are optional but _de
facto_ mandatory, and almost everybody hates it. It seems that we can't take a
day or two to rethink and reimplement something that's problematic, but we can
(or have to) play "startup" for a day or two. It's as cringeworthy as it gets;
you can easily tell that everyone wants to go home or even do _real_ work. And
the hypocrisy is mesmerising.

Somebody else here in HN (can't recall the thread) said this kind of
initiative in megacorps were "mandatory fun". I can't put it better than that.

~~~
VLM
"They are optional but de facto mandatory, and almost everybody hates it."

I'm about the same age as OP and I have a lot of big corp experience and ALL
"after hours team building activities" are thiny veiled punishment. ALL of
them. The only people who don't see them as punishment (at least in public)
are the primates winning the dominance ritual by forcing their slaves, err, I
mean employees, to do stupid stuff. Or severe stockholm syndrome victims. What
a bunch of jerks. If I don't hate them before the teambuilding, I hate them
after it, thats for sure...

Non mandatory I don't mind although I'd never attend. Make it mandatory and
you light the fire of hate.

~~~
hessenwolf
As somebody from the Anglophone world, the only good after-hour team-building
exercises involve lots of really good food and getting hammered.

~~~
click170
Except, what about the people who don't drink?

As someone who works somewhere where these "team building exercises" take
place, if the rest of the group is going to be drinking then there is 0%
chance of me going. I don't mind people enjoying themselves around me, but I'm
not interested in spending time with them as they drink more and more and
consequently start acting stupider and more belligerent.

A lot of people enjoy getting shit-faced, but some people don't. I'm the
latter. It's enough for me to truly feel sorry for any recovering alcoholics
who mistakenly apply for a position on my team. Does all team-building have to
include drugs (yes I'm including alcohol as a drug)?

~~~
wmil
Look, western cultures have been using alcohol to promote social bonding for
thousands of years. It works.

~~~
mercer
I'm not saying I completely disagree, but we've been doing lots of things for
long periods of time that we stopped doing for good reasons. I wouldn't be
entirely surprised if drinking large amounts of alcohol becomes 'abnormal' in
the not-too-distant future.

Don't get me wrong: in my current social circles drinking often and rather
heavily is still the de facto social activity, and I enjoy it, albeit less,
uh, vigorously than the past. Hangovers have become a bigger issue as I'm
getting older. Anyways, some of these same groups also smoke heavily and I've
noticed that particular behavior disappearing almost completely in some other
groups I interact with. So perhaps alcohol will eventually 'phase out' in a
similar way, at least in significant parts of society.

Getting 'hammered', even semi-regularly, is very unhealthy and it might not
even foster stronger social ties as efficiently as other methods. It's just
the easy default, for now, just like other things have been the easy default
in the past.

------
binarymax
I agree with some of these points and I understand why some folks don't like
hackathons. I especially understand why some don't like company hackathons or
PR hackathons.

I go to about one or two of them per year, am 36 years old, and here's what I
DO like about 'generic' hackathons - that have no single sponsor:

    
    
        - It's a break from my daily routine (I work from home, so its good to mingle)
        - It's a lot of fun and I meet smart like-minded people.
        - I get to laser focus on learning new tech without any emotional commitment.
        - I know it's all for naught so I have no problem starting something and then not feeling 'guilty' about throwing it away afterwards.
        - Its a serious mental challenge.  I do it more for the personal competition (like golf) rather than competing against others
    

There are several other reasons, but those are the top for me. I never going
in expecting to win (and I never do), so treating it like a weekend of
nonsense probably helps.

~~~
muyuu
That's all fine, but the author's points stand.

They are a bit like LAN parties. Don't expect much more than that, and if
that's what you want then it's all fine. However, for getting stuff done they
are not a good format and his criticisms are valid.

OpenBSD hackathons (
[http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html](http://www.openbsd.org/hackathons.html)
)tick a few of the boxes though:

\+ not competitive

\+ for working on ongoing projects and known problems, rather than throwaway
flashy toys

\+ keep the "good" from regular hackathons

\-----

\- still overwhelmingly for a certain demographic (particularly non-inclusive
as they are invitation-only)

\- still likely to be not very healthy

I've been to one of these, and although I did win, I don't think it's
particularly useful other than for entertainment, meeting people, etc. Which
admittedly are good goals on their own. But anything other than young males
will likely feel increasingly excluded in these events.

~~~
protomyth
"still overwhelmingly for a certain demographic (particularly non-inclusive as
they are invitation-only)"

Isn't the OpenBSD hackathons basically self-selected by being for people who
contribute to the project.

"still likely to be not very healthy"

Given the trip reports from the last couple, they had a lot healthier (and
funner) time than my last trip to Vegas. I seem to remember a hike as part of
the events.

~~~
muyuu
I think so, they look interesting but I haven't been to one so I cannot
report. From the pics it seems to me that they're something like 90% male in
their 20s-30s.

I realise now that my other post was not very clear. I went to a "hackathon"
but not an OpenBSD one.

~~~
protomyth
"From the pics it seems to me that they're something like 90% male in their
20s-30s"

That's not a problem of a hackathon, its the basic demographic of
contributions to open source.

~~~
muyuu
Yep well, it's the landscape of OSS and software development in general
extending into the hackathon. Not something that should be policed IMO but
many people would like a different landscape.

------
kriro
I think a "non-interruption weekend" specifically designed around healthy food
and sleep breaks is more fruitful in general.

The true value of a hackathon is twofold (imo)

\- you don't have normal office interruptions and the like and can focus on
one thing for an extended period

\- you get to meet interesting people and exchange ideas

I think just focusing on that and mostly ignoring the "extremeness" of
hackathons would be awesome. Instead of thinking "how can I code on for hours"
a better focus would be "how can we generate a very productive and pleasant
environment and still reap the benefits of hackathons".

For example, if it's a biggish place, childcare for parents would be something
I'd think about before diving into how to get more coffee to the venue ;)

~~~
tomblomfield
I think a third benefit is forcing you constrain the scope of what you're
doing very aggressively. It makes me way more productive.

~~~
mgkimsal
Did one a couple years ago - there were just 4 of us, and I was the only
software guy. In ... about 30 hours (including my drive time to/from home a
couple times) we had a decent-looking and moderately functional piece of
software. It actually did quite a lot of stuff, but not what was originally
talked about. But everyone was still impressed. Why? Mostly because I was able
to focus on a few core things while saying _no_ to most ideas/requests. I just
kept saying "no", over and over, while working. Once the base was done, it was
easier to say 'yes' to some ideas, or at least sketch them out.

We came in second place, out of about 20 teams that started the Friday night.
I chalk about 80% of it up to the focus/constraints and ability to adhere to
those.

------
jarofgreen
The reason I don't like articles like these - although I actually agree with a
lot of her points - is because the term "hackathon" now covers such a wide
variety of events, and not all of them have the characteristics she describes.

For example,

> You can tell me all you like about how collaborative the atmosphere of your
> event is, but if you are awarding prizes for the “best X”, you just sound
> hypocritical. If you want me to believe the event is collaborative, don’t
> make it a competition.

I fully agree with this point and wish more hackathons didn't have judges and
prizes. But some don't - I watched the presenting of a tech music hack weekend
once, and there were no judges. They gave prizes out entirely at random - and
there were some iPads, good prizes to! The atmosphere was great.

I've also been at hackathons that had great food that wasn't pizza, and
hackathons where they encouraged ppl to leave at 6pm.

But I think we need to be careful not to tar all "hackathons" with one brush
here. It's interesting that people are now using different words like
"Hackstuff" from the article (another reason ppl use different words is that
the word "hack" tends to put non tech people off massively) and I'm not sure
where this leaves the usage and common accepted definition of "hackathon".

~~~
VLM
"because the term ... now covers such a wide variety of events, and not all of
them have the characteristics she describes."

AKA its agile.

------
computerjunkie
Incoming rant:

 _> >> They’re unhealthy_

I totally agree. I love good food and a good nights sleep. I left the high
sugar, high caffeine, junk food diet at University. Just the thought of it
makes me cringe now. I've also been trying to fix my destroyed sleeping
pattern due to University night life and after two months its finally
returning to normal.

 _> >> Competition, meh._

Another good point. I'm a competitive person at heart but I don't see any
reason to be competitive over low - mediocre products built in two days. I
want to build products that I'm proud of.

Why does everybody think that you generally build _good_ products in an
insanely short amount time?Why sacrifice your health over something you won't
be 100% proud of. Why are we in such a rush?

 _> >> A welcoming environment for people of all skill and confidence levels,
with opportunity for mentorship, learning, and working at your own pace._

This. I'm still new to the software development sector as a fresh out of
college graduate and to be frank, my confidence levels are low because I see
everybody else doing amazing things that I wish I could do now.

A mentor would be a major plus. Having someone guiding you on the right track
is seriously overlooked.Of course you will sometimes fail and the road will be
bumpy but at least a mentor will make it a little easier and avoid common
pitfalls

I'm a thinker, I hate rushing into things; its like building with a poor
foundation. I prefer to think, research, think again before implementing an
idea.

As with every hobby, hackathons are great for some people and not so great for
others. I personally, enjoy a lot of the things the author said. I love moving
around eating good food, lots of water, good sleep and a lot of exercise. Does
that make me a bad developer because I don't fit this stereotype developer?

The worst part is when a company expects you to have gone (or go to) to
hackathons in order for you to get a job. It really says a lot about what the
kind of people they hire and what kind of company they are.

~~~
Bahamut
You have to take the long road - the people producing amazing stuff didn't get
there fresh out of college. I had similar feelings as recently as a year ago -
today marks two years as a software engineer for me, and I'm finally at a
point where I'm not worried.

You will get there if you invest in yourself - learn new technologies, hop
into IRC & ask questions, and go to meetups and talk with knowledgeable
professionals.

~~~
computerjunkie
Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I am definitly going to invest in
myself and take time to improve, its just that when you look at Show HN, you
begin to think your years behind everybody else.

------
juliendorra
On mothers not coming to hackathons: at Museomix[1] events we have at least
50% of women and many moms. Anecdotally, I clearly remember that at the very
first Museomix in 2011 Nathalie, a participant, had a 3 months old daughter at
home. Her dad was keeping care of her.

Museomix last 3 whole days, is probably beyond the traditional hackathon (in
the sense that devs are only a part of the teams. 1/6th to be precise).

I guess the absence of moms is rather a question of general gender imbalance
and culture of the event. [1][http://museomix.org](http://museomix.org)

~~~
jvvw
I'm a mother of two young children and was a bit puzzled by the gender issue.
Now we are past the breastfeeding stage, my husband is just as capable of
looking after our children as me (and when my first was very tiny, I took him
to a tech conference and the committee were very helpful and found me
somewhere private to feed him). Doing these things at weekends is a hobby and
having a family is going to get in the way of that, but don't see that affects
women any more than men and it's a decision you make when you decide to have a
family.

------
kamens
They haven't been open to the public (yet), but at Khan Academy all ours have
been "healthy hackathons."

Have personally loved it. Eating and sleeping well required. We even bring in
healthier snacks than normal and force people out at midnight.

More here if interested:
[http://hackweek.khanacademy.org](http://hackweek.khanacademy.org)
[http://bjk5.com/post/56123354891/how-we-ran-the-second-
khan-...](http://bjk5.com/post/56123354891/how-we-ran-the-second-khan-academy-
healthy)

------
john2x
> Why can’t I work on an existing project?

Man I'd love to join a hackathon where you are encouraged to work on your
personal projects, and you get to share it with other attendees, and they get
to share theirs with you, and hopefully someone finds your project interesting
and then it's not a 1 man project anymore or vice versa.

Most (if not all) hackathons in my country are sponsored by companies to try
out their new api's, gather potential hires under one roof, or for
investors/business people trying to find developers/co-founders.

~~~
zatkin
> Most (if not all) hackathons in my country are sponsored by companies to try
> out their new api's, gather potential hires under one roof, or for
> investors/business people trying to find developers/co-founders.

This accurately describes every hackathon I've been to in San Francisco.
(Facebook, Heroku, RackSpace...)

~~~
greghendershott
Hopefully I'm being Captain Obvious, but:

Using hackathons as a hiring tactic doesn't seem like a very smart idea, given
how self-evidently discriminatory it is on the axes the OP describes.

~~~
toothbrush
>Using hackathons as a hiring tactic doesn't seem like a very smart idea,
given how self-evidently discriminatory it is on the axes the OP describes.

Assuming that this is a problem for the companies in question. Personally, i
agree with you: there ought to be Less Discrimination. I'm just wondering if a
stereotypical SV outfit worries much about that.

------
danieldk
OpenBSD was one of the first projects to start hackatons. I think they even
invented the term. The idea behind them is great and does not have many of the
downsides indicated: just get together and work on things that require more
'bandwidth' than e-mail or IRC or sub-projects where you can quickly progress
when tackling it with a couple of other people. Besides that, it's a good
occasion to meet fellow project members, have a barbecue, and talk all night.

However, most hackatons that I see in my mailbox are completely different.
They are often:

\- A way for a company to get some app programmed as quickly and cheaply as
possible (you win a price and we get all rights).

\- A way for companies to recruit. Both technical (which developers are good)
and non-technical (who is willing to give up their life if we ask them to)
datapoints can be gathered with ease.

~~~
leoc
> The idea behind them is great and does not have many of the downsides
> indicated: just get together and work on things that require more
> 'bandwidth' than e-mail or IRC or sub-projects where you can quickly
> progress when tackling it with a couple of other people. Besides that, it's
> a good occasion to meet fellow project members, have a barbecue, and talk
> all night.

That kind of meeting is more generally referred to as a sprint, isn't it?

~~~
pgeorgi
Depends on which genesis of the word 'hackathon' you prefer.

OpenBSD and Sun both did 'hackathons' in June 1999, OpenBSD's more of the
high-bandwidth collaboration type, Sun's more of the 'promote our APIs' sorts.

------
vijucat
It just occurred to me that Hackathons which stress on the caffeine-induced
sleepless continuous-production aspect of programming are the opposite of what
Rich Hickey termed "Hammock driven development" : [http://data-
sorcery.org/2010/12/29/hammock-driven-dev/](http://data-
sorcery.org/2010/12/29/hammock-driven-dev/)

I guess the "furious activity IS productivity" approach of such hackathons is
appropriate if you're building the next great website where the assembly of
components is the challenge but they are probably not great for solving open-
ended problems such as designing an algorithm or figuring out how to solve a
puzzle (a business puzzle, a programming puzzle, a life puzzle).

~~~
Bahamut
The description of "Hammock-driven" development is very similar to how one has
to function in academia, where the problems are hard and a lot of time
thinking is necessary.

I also like to operate this way - the solutions created in such moments of
brilliance just cannot be reproduced while in constant states of stress.

------
wyclif
_So what are hackathons good for?_

They're great for MBA-bots who want young, naive developers to crank out a
barely functional proof-of-concept for free.

~~~
jmngomes
Agreed, it's really that simple.

Hackathons make a lot of sense to the people that profit directly from it
and/or whose job is little more than babbling buzzwords and "getting the team
on fire!!", which you only have time to do if you're not bashing your brains
pulling all-nighters programming (no objection in doing this for fun,
obviously)

------
londonymous
AKA why I don't like $COMMON_PASTTIME. This could easily be "Why I don't like
Hand-gliding", or "Why I don't like book-clubs"

>Domestic and carer responsibilities are unevenly distributed, which means
women are more likely to be too busy to attend hackathons than men are.

Domestic responsibilities are unevenly distributed. This is bad. It has
nothing to do with Hackathons.

>Attending a weekend-long event means massively rearranging my life.

Has this guy never been on holiday?

>if I spend two long days in poor lighting and poor ventilation, sitting
hunched over my laptop at a meeting table in an uncomfortable chair, eating
pretty average catering food or pizza [...] I feel like crap.

If that's an issue, bring your own food. Drink more water.

~~~
v64
> Has this guy never been on holiday?

The author is a woman.

Presumably, if you're going on vacation, you're massively rearranging your
life for something that you want to do. In the case of employers who hold
these mandatory hackathons, you're going to put some of your employees in a
tough spot.

It's one thing to pay for a babysitter so the parents can go out and have a
night to themselves, it's another thing to have to pay for a babysitter
because you're going to an event that forces you to stay awake for 24 hours,
which you don't even want to do in the first place. If you don't work well in
hackathon conditions, then it's a total waste of time and money.

~~~
avz
Where does it say that the post is about _mandatory_ hackathons organized by a
_company_ for its _employees_?

Also, I think you're missing the point of the parent post. The point is that
the balance of pros and cons of a hackathon is a subjective matter. Some
people enjoy their intensity and challenging conditions, others hate the
inconvenience. You can observe this for hiking and other demanding hobbies.

Bottom line is that if a hackathon, hiking, etc happens to be a way you love
spending your free time, you will _want_ to rearrange your life to
participate.

~~~
v64
I believe we're talking about two separate issues then.

The only hackathons I've participated in are the type I spoke about (mandatory
by company for employees) and are the only ones I'm familiar with. In the
context of a work obligation, I understand the issues with childcare, etc.

If we're talking about events that are taking place outside of work, then I
view them like I would view a running event or concert or any other elective
activity: go if you want, stay home if you don't. In that context, I agree
with you and hadn't considered that hackathons like that exist outside of the
workplace.

------
lmorris84
Biggest worry for me is impostor syndrome. I'd be terrified of turning up and
being absolutely useless and achieving nothing. I don't go to conferences for
the same reason.

~~~
tomjen3
There are a lot of people who feel like that, me included (at times I kinda
expect my parents to tell me that I have been playing grown up long enough and
that it is time to come home and go to bed at my old bed time).

My best recommendation is to go there anyway, and you will see that you can
more than you will ever imagine (useful advice, right? just telling you to do
it anyway). Also remember that it is absolutely okay to be scared out of your
wits (relevant blog post
[http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/0...](http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2007/03/helping_users_f.html))
and do it anyway.

------
raverbashing
-> They exclude people with lives and responsibilities <-

This is the strongest point.

I will contribute to your project, I will not spend the night drinking
Mountain Dew and eating pizza.

~~~
aaronbasssett
I didn't appreciate the insinuation that people who DO attend hackathons have
no lives.

------
chris_wot
As a developer of Libreoffice, I would love to go to a hackathon, but only if
there wasn't much competitiveness. Also, it would help if I lived in Europe,
but I live in Australia and (unless I'm mistaken) I'm the only active
Australian developer of Libreoffice.

------
awjr
I've attended a couple of local hackathons run by
[http://www.bathhacked.org/](http://www.bathhacked.org/) Won a category and
overall at the initial one (in a team) and won a category at the latter one
(on my own).

The initial hack was 1 day and the latter 2 days. I'd guess I did a similar
amount of work in both but felt far more relaxed over a 2 day event by keeping
the hack objectives small. They are still mentally tiring experiences and you
need time to recover.

Negotiating with my wife to create completely free weekends while juggling
child care was also relatively hard.

I was then invited to a hack in Bristol a couple of weekends ago, but just
could not make it because of family commitments. There was also an element of
distance (only 12 miles away but right in the centre of the city) however was
offered the ability to hack remotely and just come in to present. I just could
not do it due to family commitments AND knowing this would be in effect
working back to back weeks without a break.

I do agree that prizes were less important to me than the 'fun' of doing a
hack. To win was just icing on the top.

The disappointment in a hackathon is that most of what you create is throwaway
and the idea of after a hackathon, having workshops that develop and deliver a
product is very very appealing.

------
michaelq
Hackathons are awesome. I try to do like 6 or 7 a year. And I'm married and in
my mid 30s.

To take the OP's points one-by-one:

\- Hackathons are worth the commitment. They're a fast, efficient way to try
out 1) new frameworks and APIs, 2) new employees/cofounders, 3) new ideas.

\- Hackathons only exclude people with "lives" who don't choose to make the
event a priority. Hackathons filter out timid and less motivated people (and
those two attributes are related) and you're generally left with pragmatic
people who will make it through the weekend.

\- The OP is right. The inconvenience isn't evenly distributed. Life isn't
fair.

\- Hackathons are only as unhealthy as you make them. Gardening can also be
quite unhealthy if you don't wear sunscreen.

\- Competition is a positive force, and the extrinsic motivation of judgement
and a deadline are real, and good for the hack you produce.

\- Since this is a competition, you can't work on a preexisting product any
more than you could start a marathon a kilometers up the road.

\- They're not just toys. Take a look at POWr.io and Zaarly, both of which
came out of hackathons. There are many others, and if anyone knows of some of
the top of their head, please reply with them.

I think it's great that people are coming together to help code on your
gardening project. Hackathons may not be right for you, but they are
definitely right for me and the dozens of ambitious people I've coded with at
hackathons over the years.

~~~
eropple
Hackathons filter out people with _shit to do_. "Timid" people are not
filtered out, except insofar as any competitive environment does. Similarly,
"less motivated" people are not filtered out, because it is so, so much easier
to crank on something for a weekend, damn the results, than to work
incrementally on building something great. One takes a short burst of effort.
The other takes significant long-term will. Finding the former to be a waste
of resources is not a lack of ambition and certainly not a lack of pragmatism.

------
lnanek2
It doesn't sound like they have been to very many. The majority of the people
at a hackathon actually go home at night. Quite a few don't even stay the full
day. It's perfectly OK. I used to stay from Friday night to Sunday night
coding the whole time at the longer events like Startup Weekend, but after I
got married I go home for few hours each night at the wife's request. No one
has complained.

I don't think most people expect to win either. For most it is just a fun way
to try out APIs or other ideas and work with friends and make new friends.
It's typically very easy to grab something like three.js, the Uber API,
Meteor, etc. and hack on it all weekend and then if you want to integrate it
into your real project later you'll see that you learned a lot hacking. I've
picked up lots of new coworkers from hackathons too, so it is valuable for
recruiting.

The value of the hackathon is not the prize money times your chance of winning
it minus the time spent. You can benefit from the hackathon even if you don't
win. With their current attitude, I don't think the author could benefit from
going, however.

~~~
mihok
^ This is really important to get. Hackathon isn't some required thing you
absolutely have to do, or even finish for that matter.. Its a great way to get
your feet wet not only in whatever you're hacking with/on, but just to meet
the community.

If you're going to go to try to win, that's great.. but people shouldn't feel
that there is some sort of responsibility to be there, and to give it your
all. I have left hackathons because of other commitments, or I just got bored.

------
erikb
I only was at one Hackathon, yet, and the article pretty much summarizes my
thoughts. Instead of working on the Hackathon I did some pull requests to
actual FOSS projects. One guy actually presented the thing he did for a FOSS
project.

Aren't there hackathons from like Mozilla, Django, Rails communities who just
meet to get some specific set of features, bugs or tests out of the way?

~~~
teddyh
Those are usually called “sprints”.

~~~
erikb
Thanks! Very good to know!
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_%28software_development%...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_%28software_development%29))

------
red_anorak
I've been to a few hackathons over recent years. On occasion I've found them
very useful. Forcing yourself to come up with a good idea that you or a small
team can build quickly is a great exercise. They've also helped improve my
public speaking and presentation skills when it comes to technical subjects.

I will say that you often see quite dull entries from people attempting to
make commercially viable products, and that those entries often do well with
the judges. I think the participants get more out of it if they go all out and
use their imagination, without worrying about the end result. I'd prefer if
the prizes at some hackfests were biased towards creative thinking rather than
producing an MVP for a product the hackfest organiser can commercialize. This
would also make it less like "work at a weekend."

------
robsun
If you don't like them you don't attend them it is as simple. For me
hackathons are great place to meet people with familiar interests and share
experience.

~~~
calibraxis
The author is building alternatives: civic hacking meetups. So for people who
hack the institutions around them, it never has to be as simple as going or
not.

Personally, this cultural critique is far more interesting than any hackathon
I've seen. I was even at a company which hilariously tried using hackathons to
pay off technical debt, instead of simply scheduling it. (The damned Scrum
Master was surprised I had no intention of staying during weekends; somehow he
thought this plan would overjoy me, since I claimed we mismanaged technical
debt.)

------
maaaats
I've never heard of this kind of hackaton. These sound like startup-thons. All
those I've attended have been more in the spirit "come and hack on whatever
you want, discuss ideas, show of your work" which I think has been great.

------
perlgeek
I've been to several hackathons, and I have a hard time relating to the
article.

The hackathons I've been initiated by some open source communities (sometimes
sponsored by a company, but that company wasn't involved in the topics), and
were mostly not about the hacking, but about high-bandwidth communication
between folks that usually only converse via bug trackers, IRC and email.

There are no prizes. Often no new projects come out, but existing ones are
advanced.

I get the impression that there are two kinds of hackathons, the commercially
motivated, and the community one.

IMHO it makes a lot of sense to distinguish those two when talking about
hackathons.

------
netcan
Does 'not for everyone" cover this?

Exercise is a decent metaphor. Gyms are "for everyone." Some people like them
more than others, but most people can stand 30m in a gym. Few people really
love them.

Swamp runs are not for everyone. Some people love them. They get wet, mucky
and have a silly fun time. Try to force your wife who doesn't want to swam run
to swamp run and you will soon have an unhappy wet wife.

Talking about stuff online pushes everything a little further into Oscar Wilde
manifesto territory. I'm think I'm doing this right now.

BTW, is the "Why I ___" format an Oscar Wilde Homage?

------
c0smic
I've been to two "Major League" hackathons (CalHacks and YHack) and really
enjoyed my experiences at both as a current undergrad studying CS. Not often
do I get the chance to meet 1000+ people my age that are interested in exactly
what I'm interested. It's a great time for meeting new people, and maintaining
relationships after the weekend is done. I landed an internship this Summer in
SF from building a hack and talking to engineers, so I'd say it's been an
incredibly valuable experience.

------
fit2rule
I'm a Hacker and a Dad, and I rarely get to Hackathons unless I'm randomly
there by chance. That happens often enough that I have an opinion about
Hackathons, only because I am a frequent attender of Hackerspaces.

As a Dad, my time is very valuable; my kids do not suffer for my nerdy nature.
In fact, my first hackerspace is the one I share with the boys. The second
hackerspace is Metalab ([http://metalab.at/](http://metalab.at/)), and I'm a
social attender - i.e. I don't really commit, but rather just attend. To be
honest, after a week of watching the 5 and 7 year olds, its a great thing to
see the 20-something year olds, the 30-something year olds, and maybe even a
few teens, hacking away on something in the social cornucopia that is your
average, every day Hackerspace.

Here in Vienna, I sometimes run into other hacker-Dad's, and one for one
either have other commitments, socially borne, and therefore they are mutable,
or else they have the long-term view. What matters though, is that all of
these hacker-Dads share the desire to pass it on. Its a wonderful thing indeed
to see a 4 or 5 or 6-year generation doing amazing things with the end-results
of their Dads (or Mums) few hours spent, here and there, soldering .. hacking
.. tweaking .. twiddling.

tl;dr :- Home is the first hackerspace, or at least it should be.

------
Entalpi
Amen.

I am 20 years old and I share almost every single point as in the article. If
not every single one honestly.. :P

------
mikecmpbll
Oh boo-hoo, "it's really inconvenient and unhealthy and it's competitive and
I'm a damp rag." Man that read sucked the life out of me.

~~~
slig
"I have a very fulfilling life, full of hobbies, friends and shit to do. Your
hobby sucks! Don't you have anything better to do with your life, other than
eating pizza and drinking caffeine and having fun coding?"

------
rezrovs
I can also relate to the article because some hackathons that I have been to
feel like you're building this thing that you know you are going to throw
away. And events where you are able to use a new language you're under time
pressure to just get it working rather than understand it. I'd rather spend a
whole day on my own projects.

I've been to two other hackathons that are focused on attracting girls and
women into the STEM arena
([http://www.stemettes.org/events](http://www.stemettes.org/events)) but they
don't exclude guys. The idea is more around splitting the participants into
groups of different ability and helping them build something. I really enjoyed
that the event is about learning/mentoring more than about wining prizes and I
found it really rewarding to help kids that had some interest in coding.

The events are quite different from the 48 hour hacks because they are also
catering for 6 year olds with short attention spans, but it felt like I was
helping to show that coding is accessible to anyone of any age.

If you're a coder in London I highly recommend volunteering with them.

------
jakobbuis
I've worked with teams on 48-hour film projects, in which you create a short
(7 min) film in a weekend, quite comparable to a hackathon. On a team of 20
people, we charge two participants fulltime with organising catering: healthy
meals, snacks, etc. It really does wonders for the motivation and preventing
cranky reactions from the stressed-out director of photography on Sunday
afternoon

------
willvarfar
I agree with all the points, and yet at the same time I like these hackathon
jam thingies.

I have a real life with real responsibilities and I live deep in the
countryside to so I just don't get hackathons happening around me.

But I've started to make 'me' time to go meetups, game-programming jams,
'make' kind of things and that kind of stuff. And I love it, even if just a
spectator and just for a few hours.

Along those lines I recently invited myself to look around a real rocket
project (I'm an armchair enthusiast) and here's my pictures:
[http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/102953980123/home...](http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/102953980123/home-
made-space-rockets)

I think that kind of project is like a years-long hackathon if you squint from
a sufficiently high altitude.

------
ecspike
Internal hackathons can work. We recently had one where we basically shut down
most of the company for two days (it was a Thursday-Friday).

People could opt-in or do their regular work. They could stay late if they
wanted but it wasn't required. It worked well because no one was surrendering
a weekend.

------
paul9290
Not sure if this post mentioned acquiring customers, but a hackathon can be a
good sales channel.

Our last hackathon landed us a fortune 500 company as a customer. They were on
the judging panel.

I think we were disqualified from winning due to adding new features to an
existing app.

------
junto
I'm 39 and a half too. I hear you. Maybe it is an age thing!

~~~
thecopy
Im 24 and think he brings up good points. So maybe age is not a thing?

~~~
aligajani
I am 23 and I agree with the article

------
k__
Hackathons are like LAN-parties for coders. I visited both.

4 person lans and 600 person lans.

3 person hackathons and 100 person hackathons.

When I do a lan with friends, we are 4 - 8 people and play games for fun, when
I went to a 600 people lan, there were competitions and prizes.

Same goes for hackathons.

You can do your own thing if you don't like whats going on.

Hell, you could even do a big hackathon, like I did a 600 person lan once and
make your own rules.

I stopped going to such big events for the reasons listed and did funny small
ones with my friends.

------
tim333
There's always the option of not taking the hackathons that seriously. The one
I did some stuff for I popped in in the morning, found out what it was about,
went home a wrote some code for about 6 hours and then popped back the next
day to present. My team mates were non coders. We didn't do to bad though not
in the top 10%. It was quite fun though. I'm noticeably over 39.5 and think
I'll skip the all night there stuff.

------
jblok
Yes, people with responsibilities are excluded, but that is life. You don't
see parents of young children out clubbing till 4am. Younger people go out
clubbing because you can feel shit the next day without the kids wanting
attention. Not being able to go to a hackathon for a whole weekend is
something you'd have to give up too if you had other priorities.

~~~
v64
That's fine if your hackathon is optional, but many workplaces make them
mandatory or they exist in a kind of gray area where you're not required to
go, but it's "highly recommended" you go if you want to continue to advance in
the office.

And sure, if your employer puts you in that kind of situation, it's shitty,
but not everyone has the ability to just up and quit for greener pastures.

------
milesf
What I've found to be much more successful are weekly Hack Nights. I gave a
talk about it earlier this year:
[http://confreaks.com/videos/4140-cascadiaruby2014-cloning-
th...](http://confreaks.com/videos/4140-cascadiaruby2014-cloning-the-seattle-
ruby-brigade)

------
yitchelle
Looking on the other side of the coin, can anyone mention any positives
(personal perspective of course) from attending a hackathon?

Personally, I would rather contribute to a FOSS project rather than getting
involve in hackathon.

~~~
VLM
You can meet people.

If you don't like the experience, assuming your employer isn't punishing you
by forcing attendance, you just walk away if you don't like it. Assuming
you're not walking away from your job, you're walking away from little more
than an entry fee (if any) and some (likely) free food.

Also theres no interview process (again, assuming your boss isn't an evil
bastard forcing you to attend as a condition of employment). So not knowing
anything about hbase is no disqualifier from attending and being "the hbase
guy". Although if you try that unless you're a true genius, or very lucky,
don't expect many job offers LOL. Very few job reqs for "candidate will
demonstrate 48 hours experience with GNU R" or whatever.

------
dpacmittal
A big part of when I go to hackathons is meeting new people, coming up with
new interesting idea, learning from other's idea. It's a good learning
experience, and I get to network with people.

------
netforay
I wanted to write this for a month or so. Nice to see that I am not alone.

One point I wanted to point was, they just encourage you to remember you code
and write it all at once. They are kind of memory testing.

------
robmcm
The best is when your PM goes to one and then comes in on Monday expecting you
to implement all your features by 1AM if he gets the Pizzas in...

IMO it breeds bad habits of coding, planning and management...

------
dcw303
I would be very suspicious of finding a job offer at a hackathon. A company
who wants workers that are willing to go without sleep to code are just
looking for naive talent to exploit.

------
hoodoof
They're good for young people. When I was young I would have found them
inspiring.

------
grigio
+1000 usually hackathon are the extension of a stereotype that a developer
should make a fantastic app in 24h. I can understand about designers and
business models, but to project and develop a real app from scratch take a lot
of time.. if you don't use pre existent code

------
bluedino
Next from the author, "Why I don't like startups."

 _meh_

~~~
chris_wot
No sleep, constant work, crappy pay, crappy code and you get pizza. Is this
your idea of startups? If so, get the hell out of that startup if you are a
salaried employee!

------
aligajani
Agree.

