
Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.  - thesash
http://thesash.me/wash-the-dishes-when-nobody-else-will
======
grellas
Want to be a great leader? Work hard to develop extraordinary skills. Become
an independent thinker and have the courage to follow your ideas. Show respect
to others and never think more highly of yourself than you ought. Avoid bad
habits of sloth, dissipation, dishonesty, and other qualities that would cause
others to lose respect for you. Set goals that challenge you to do your best
and follow diligently after them. Apply all this consistently to every part of
your life, always striving to better yourself in even the smallest ways while
maintaining integrity.

In my student days, I worked in restaurants. I worked with a guy who was a
Mexican immigrant, who washed dishes with me for several years in a busy
restaurant. He worked hard. He was always upbeat. He never complained. And he
radiated a sense of joy all about him. Why? Because he was content with what
he was doing while obviously striving to improve himself at the same time. He
would often sing while he worked. And that was inspiring. That man might never
make a mark in the broader society but I could see he would be a fine leader
wherever his life circumstances took him.

These same qualities can be found in the startup world, as nicely reflected in
this piece. But they are by no means limited to those who seek success in
business. They are life qualities. It profits us all to follow them.

~~~
joe_the_user
_"That man might never make a mark in the broader society but I could see he
would be a fine leader wherever his life circumstances took him."_

Ah the leadership question...

Being a few years past high school, it's interesting to look at many people
who _seemed_ like leaders but never made it.

Some times it was life-circumstances. But I think think there is also a too-
great a willingness to _merely work hard at what presented itself_.

There much that has been said on this but it's worth mentioning that to reach
a certain level of leadership, while you can continue leading a bit by
example, you have to be mainly _willing to delegate_ a lot of the actual work.
Essentially, you have to be able to _use_ people. It's more than positive
vibes.

In software, in particular, inspiration has never been part of the equation
for any good manager manager I've had. Instead, saying what mattered and
_getting out of the way_ has always been key. Don't lead technical people by
example. Don't clean our bathrooms or our code. "Mr. Energy" would not be
welcome here. And I've had too many managers who were bad because they never
learned the lesson that their job was no longer coding or even "inspiring" but
organizing and bureaucracy-hacking.

~~~
thesash
Not all leaders are managers. Some leaders lead quietly from behind their
desks while their managers stay out of the way.

------
nhashem
All these "now you're the dishwasher, gg idiot" comments I think are taking
this too literally.

We've all probably been "the nice guy" in some situation that did some
mundane/tedious task, ended up being that guy forever, and ended up resentful
and vowed never to do it again. I don't think this is the point here though.

In my opinion, the easiest way to command respect is to not think about
commanding respect. If there's a problem, just solve it, and your peers and
subordinates will respect you an order of magnitude more than if you just
tried to motivate them with some "problem-solving" Power Point slides.

One of my favorite examples I've seen of "washing the dishes:"

\- At a startup myself and four other engineers wanted attend a conference
across town. Our cab was running late and we were in danger of missing the
first sessions. The CEO chucked his keys at us (he drove a minivan) and his
credit card and said, "take my car, it needs gas though so fill it up with my
card on the way back."

Did we expect we now had unlimited use of this guy's car forever and abuse it?
Of course not. Did we totally respect him for trusting five guys to drive his
car and made sure we had enough gas? Yes. Did we notice that he didn't even
use the corporate credit card because only about 10% of that full tank of gas
would be used for work purposes? Yes.

~~~
timr
_"In my opinion, the easiest way to command respect is to not think about
commanding respect. If there's a problem, just solve it, and your peers and
subordinates will respect you an order of magnitude more than if you just
tried to motivate them with some "problem-solving" Power Point slides."_

It depends on the size of the organization you're in. Sad and irrational as it
may seem, people are basically just monkeys, and we react most strongly to
shiny, noisy things (which is part of the reason our society seems to tolerate
'social media experts' and celebrate certain bloggers...but I digress.) If
there's too much background noise, it's hard to earn respect if you're quiet
and industrious. Take a close look at any big company (including "engineering
driven" companies), and you'll find that the upper echelons of the
organization are dominated by people who ruthlessly self-promote. Don't
misunderstand: at the good companies, those folks also "do the dishes" --
they're just very strategic about the timing and promotion of their dish-
washing initiatives.

The problem with being the Guy Who Quietly Gets Things Done is that if you do
your job too well, you don't get noticed. If you don't get noticed, you don't
get rewarded, even if you're doing a kick-ass job. It's usually easier to get
noticed for being quiet and reliable in a small group of people, but once
you've got more than a few monkeys in the cage, it gets very noisy and it's
hard to stand out, even amongst your small group of peers.

~~~
allantyoung
I suppose that we'll have a revival in the way we measure employees. Not
everything can be put into neat metrics but there are probably lot of factors
and outputs we haven't even begun to put together in a systematic way.

Knowing who your "Guys Who Quietly Gets Things Done" are would be invaluable
for any enterprise. Would they pay for a tool to help them identify and retain
these quiet superstars? I think so.

~~~
timr
_"I suppose that we'll have a revival in the way we measure employees....would
[people] pay for a tool to help them identify and retain these quiet
superstars?"_

Perhaps, but I don't think it would help. The way things are isn't necessarily
bad...it's just human nature. Give a cage full of monkeys a new incentive
system, and the monkeys will learn to game the system in order to get more
bananas. Give them a tool that lets the quiet monkeys make more noise, and the
loud monkeys will use it to make themselves even louder.

Generally speaking, hyper-rational people (like most geeks) try to fight this
trend at first, but they eventually come to the conclusion that it's easier
and better to just play the game.

------
sloak
Reminds me about the story of Netflix CEO. From
[http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/0...](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/01/netflix-
ceo-deflects-criticism-with-humor-in-form-of-albanian-army-dog-tags.html)

[... Huffington coaxed Hastings to talk about leadership -- and one early
experience that informed his leadership style.

Hastings recalled how, as a 25-year-old software programmer, he would stay up
all night, propelled by coffee. He'd leave an array of mugs on his desk. Once
a week, he would discover the cups cleaned. One day, he arrived at work at 4
a.m. and walked into the bathroom to discover the company's CEO, sleeves
rolled up, washing the collection of nasty cups.

"That whole time, I thought it was the janitor," said Hastings, who said this
had been occurring for a year. He asked his boss why. "He said, 'You do so
much for this company, this is the only thing I can do for you.' ]

~~~
VladRussian
'You do so much for this company, this is the only thing I can do for you.'

Typical lie of a boss. He could have given him more options or a promotion for
example.

~~~
sloak
I think it's a bit of a misquote. I've heard it as the CEO saying something
like "since you're under a lot of time press to get the stuff out the door in
a week, and I don't know how to code, this is the only thing I can do for you
right now"

------
edw519
This reminds me of the litmus test my father had in his small business years
ago. Every new employee, no matter where they worked, had the same first task:
clean the bathroom. Lots of people never made it through the first day.

I guess he figured that the best way to have employees who would "wash the
dishes when nobody else will" is to only hire those who would.

~~~
jarek
Maybe it's just my millenial entitlement, but that strikes me as a bad
strategy. Unless the business was a cleaning or maintenance company, cleaning
the bathroom seems far removed from anything relevant to my work and is in
essence busywork. Questions that immediately spring into mind: is this some
weird attempt at saving money by having employees do both their job and
cleaning? Is this supposed to be some hazing ritual? Will this be
representative of my time at the company?

Pitching in when it needs to be cleaned? Sure. Boss paying attention to who
voluntarily cleans it? Sure. Making employees clean it on their first day? Not
so much.

\- millenial who cleans up after himself in the company kitchen

~~~
edw519
Did you understand the grandparent?

This had nothing to do with relevance, busywork, hazing, saving money, or
evaluating talent.

It had a single purpose: to determine willingness to do an undesirable job.
That's it. Which, interestingly, is just as important in a software start-up
as it was in my father's business so many years ago.

~~~
Deestan
In this case the cleaning is _clearly_ an initiation ritual/test.

The psychological traits needed to submit to arbitrary _unnecessary_ labour
(brownnosers good, independent thinkers bad) are entirely different from the
psychological traits needed to spot problem areas and deviate from assigned
tasks to fix them (independent thinkers good, bronnosers bad).

I hate litmus tests with a passion.

~~~
PakG1
I think the purpose of these kinds of litmus tests (to find people who are
willing to get the job done, even if it looks stupid, boring, or detestable)
is more important than filtering for independent thinkers.

Quite frankly, a good manager would be able to determine whether someone's a
brownnoser or an independent thinker through other means. Heck, just talking
with people will be sufficient for managers who are experienced and talented.
But a litmus test like this reveals a lot about the nature of a person that
can't come out in a conversation. You see them talk the talk, now see them
walk the walk; not in terms of their professional skills, but in terms of
their human nature/personality/potential for leadership.

Because the thing is, this kind of litmus test has one other very positive
goal. See how someone responds to stupid orders. It's a huge sign for how well
they'd be able to handle conflict and politics, which exist in any
organization, even startups. It's the unfortunate nature of the beast, but
good conflict management also does much to foster amazing outcomes,
productivity, and creativity.

You want that kind of independent thinker over a guy who's a prima donna, even
if he is an undisputed talent. To think that litmus tests cause organizations
to hire only brownnosers would say more about the quality of the managers than
litmus tests themselves.

Don't hate the litmus test, hate the managers who don't have higher purposes.
We shouldn't be petty about that kind of stuff, it says a lot about our
ability (or lack thereof) to handle human interaction well.

------
divtxt
Early in my career, I asked a co-worker why he didn't complain about doing the
shitty maintenance coding which no one wanted. His reply in essence: because
someone has to do the crappy stuff.

My respect for him went up that day, but I discovered the leadership aspect of
that attitude only years later when I applied it as a manager. Thank you,
Paul!

~~~
jerf
Also, you the Mighty Developer of Mightiness, need to spend some time on the
scut work so you can figure how to reduce the need for it.

------
clofresh
It's funny, when I went to visit a friend at Etsy after work hours, we were
chatting in the kitchen and their CEO, Rob Kalin was washing dishes. My friend
said to him, "That's awesome that you're the CEO and you're washing the
dishes, Rob." And he replied, "Oh, it's better than when I was cleaning the
bathrooms."

------
brudgers
The article isn't "Want to be a CEO, Was the Dishes..."

Leadership is facilitation, and being a leader ain't the same as being the
boss. If dirty dishes are dragging on the team, taking care of them is just
being part of the team. People respect supervisors when they believe the
supervisor won't ask anyone to do something they wouldn't do themselves.

------
jrockway
Nope, now you're the dishwasher. At least in my experience; if you do
something that other people don't want to do, you're now the "that thing" guy
for life.

~~~
guptaneil
Only if that's the _only_ thing you're known for.

I have a lot of respect for a CEO that runs the entire company and doesn't
consider himself too high to do the grunt work too.

~~~
cosmicray
> doesn't consider himself too high to do the grunt work too

go read 'Up the Organization' by Robert Towsend (written many years ago when
he was the CEO of Avis Rent-a-car). Everyone at Avis (janitor, receptionist,
CEO, all the way down the line) was required to work 1 or 2 days a year at the
counter, renting cars. Helped everyone what business they were in, and why
they had a job.

~~~
jrockway
Or, "this is why I don't know anyone smart that works at Avis".

No offense, but the day I have to work as a bank teller is the day I stop
working for a bank.

~~~
whatusername
And _that_ is why Bank Teller software sucks.

~~~
jrockway
No, it sucks because banks will not pay for software for their tellers. You've
never been a teller, but you know it sucks. So do the banks. But they don't
care, because there is no money to be made in improving it.

(Wait until they realize that there is no money in etrading either. Then there
will be a lot of people on the market that know how to micro-optimize memory
allocators. But I digress...)

------
Xrissley
Puzzling, the underlying arrogance of most people commenting against the
article here. They really seem to have such a high view of themselves, their
time, their value, the optimal use of all this by their employers, and a very
low level of humility.

Sounds like most of them really never had to work (just work, do a job to get
money in) hard for food, and are bathed in the comfort of having learned a bit
of computer science or something modern that doesn't get you too dirty, being
equipped with a well functioning brain, and with all that, theydo really seem
to think that it makes them a marvel and a gift to mankind. Wonder how many of
them will end up being good leaders.

Somehow they haven't motivated me to work for or with them. Guess that is a
first clue.

(and _I_ am the first to know that _I_ don't have leadership quality. But I
have had the chance to observe and work for amazing leaders. Humility always
was a key point of their personality)

------
hammock
I don't actually see washing the dishes as a "morale boosting" action. It's
more about taking initiative. Dirty dishes is one of those public goods
problems, where multiple people's dishes build up in the sink and no one
washes them. The one who takes initiative and washes the whole sink as opposed
to just his own is looked at as a leader, someone responsible and trustworthy,
not necessarily a dishes bitch.

Being a real leader is recognizing that there is no glamour in being
responsible for the lives and fates of many; that's only a perception that
others project onto you. It's a humbling job.

~~~
VladRussian
>The one who takes initiative and washes the whole sink as opposed to just his
own is looked at as a leader, someone responsible and trustworthy, not
necessarily a dishes bitch

A leadership lesson for you :

The one who takes initiative and organizes those multiple people to wash the
whole sink is looked at as a leader.

------
JoeAltmaier
...once. Just show that even you aren't too good to do the hard stuff. Don't
waste your time washing dishes when you actually need to be doing other
things.

~~~
fefzero
I think the point here isn't just that the CEO was performing a mundane task,
but that he was doing work that had to get done, even though it wasn't a
desirable task. There was a giant pile of dishes - he cleaned them. The dishes
were the thing that needed to get done.

If he does it just once, I question his motives. This repeated behavior shows
his true conviction.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
CEO's need to lead; exceptional behavior creates a buzz. This is morale
building advice, not socialism.

His motive? to show that no one is too good to do the hard stuff. Its a stunt,
but its a lesson too. Everybody will get that.

~~~
guptaneil
Honest question: Is it still considered a stunt if nobody even knows that he's
doing it? From the post, it seemed like he was just taking care of it with no
fanfare or mention to the other employees.

~~~
scdc
Part of being a good boss is removing barriers so your staff can be
productive. So I'd say it's not a stunt at all.

------
ajaimk
I used to run the student advisory board for our college. We had a new dean
and we were hosting an event for the first time since he arrived. After the
event, many people left including some of our members and we had 2 rooms to
clean up. We all went into the first one cleaned it up and came to the second
room to find our dean wiping all the tables. We hadn't asked or expected him
(He's the fricking DEAN!!) but he took it on himself to help out.

The trust he built in the students carried on and we still have a great
relationship. Washing the dishes indeed.

------
luminarious
I do believe humility is a seriously underrated trait. You do the thing that
needs to be done, no fanfare necessary.

------
nuclearsandwich
I love to do the dishes. Does this make me a natural born leader?

In seriousness though I feel like the best way to manage in situations of
ambiguously shared responsibility is not to be afraid of getting stuck with it
because the slackers start to feel embarrassed around you and either pitch in
or leave.

There's little more cathartic in life than actual physical toil and while
doing the dishes isn't all that rough, it presents an opportunity to occupy
the hands and let the mind wander.

------
TWSS
I wonder if this would have been perceived differently if the CEO was a woman.

~~~
BrandonM
I don't think it would be. That woman is the CEO for a reason.

------
bugsy
When I am a guest at someone's house I always stay and help clean up, and wash
dishes. Love to do my share.

But it is foolish to be doing janitorial duties at work. A situation a few
years ago will serve as an example. As an expert, my time was being billed out
to clients at $150/hr and I was getting paid $50 of that. The company did not
want to hire more engineers so I was working 60-100 billable hours every week,
working massive overtime for which I was not paid since developers are
"salary". I had not had a Saturday or Sunday off in over a year.

On top of all this, the company decided to save money by firing the janitorial
service, which was being paid $15 an hour, and whose workers earned minimum
wage. It was announced that engineers would take turns vacuuming, taking out
the trash, and cleaning dishes and and even cleaning out the fridge.

I quit over that. Obviously because I wasn't a team player, right?

~~~
mcherm
Wrong. Imagine the economy took a downturn and the company was having trouble
finding placements for their consultants. Imagine that they decided to hang
onto the employees even though they didn't have billable work for them (try
hard: you may sprain your imagination). Imagine that the company's finances
were in trouble over this, so they stopped the janitorial service. And _then_
they asked you to take out the trash and clean the fridge.

THAT is when it would be appropriate, and a team player would pitch in.
Abusing employees is abuse whether it's excessive billable hours or excessive
fridge-cleaning.

------
jiffylu
I think people are getting too caught up with the dish washing element of the
story. The point of the story is about taking ownership and doing whatever it
takes to move the company forward.

Early on at Reddit, Alexis Ohanis did all the "bitch" work so that Steve
Huffman could focus on coding.

But if we must analyze the dishwashing aspect of the story, I think there's an
element of "caring for your coworkers / employees" there. If no one washed the
dishes, the company wasn't going to go bankrupt, but it would make other
people's lives more miserable.

As I'm working on my own startup, I can relate to that sentiment, because I
not only care about growing the company, I also care about my cofounders' well
being.

------
zefhous
It worked for Jesus...

~~~
VladRussian
Do you really wish Jesus's career/fate for yourself or anybody else whom you
wish well?

~~~
pig
Do you see a causation there?

------
curtiswashngton
It sounds like great advice, and it probably is in the right situation. I can
tell you that at my current company I behaved in this way for years, and
metaphorically, and sometimes literally, washed the dishes and went above and
beyond to end up being pushed aside by office politics. When you treat the
company as if it were yours or you were its CEO don't forget that it is not
yours and you are not the CEO, otherwise you'll be in for a big wake up kick
in the butt...

------
skrish
In my first job at a startup, the bathroom was dirty on a rainy day & realised
the janitor had not come into office. I knew customers were visiting office in
the next hour, so I just cleaned it up and went back to work. Nobody ever knew
about it. Similar such events like cleaning up our kitchen sink with lots of
coffee cups has happened, but I never realised as if its not my 'job'. It was
there to be done & when I realised the person responsible for that was not
around I just did it.

But later on when I worked for a bigger organization it hit me, how I felt
about the company, as if I was running it and was wondering if I would ever do
the same in this 'BIG' organization.

------
bootload
_"... Want to be a leader? ..."_

Don't do what I say, do as I do ~
<http://www.eduqna.com/Quotations/792-quotations-11.html>

------
jai_vasanthan
Great article. In a startup environment, you should always see people taking
responsibility whenever there is a crisis. They inspire the people around them
to come up with solutions for the pressing issues.

If you see someone who doesn't take responsibility and is always trying to run
from it, or is always whining and never a part of the solution. Fire Them.
Those who take responsibilities and are atleast willing to be part of the
solution have the DNA to be in the startup culture.

------
dancavallaro11
I think this sentiment applies to more than just startups, but really any
organization where there's a tendency to say "that's not my job" or "oh, if I
don't do it someone else will". I think a lot of organizations could be more
successful if more of their members -- employees of a startup, volunteers at a
nonprofit, members of a club -- were willing to pitch in above (and below!)
and beyond their title, experience, or pay.

------
OllieJones
Right on.

Also, clean up the bathrooms when somebody's coming for an interview. Wipe the
floor under the urinals and around the crappers. Why make a potential co-
worker wonder whether working with you is worth living in filth?

But, it's also good leadership to put up a note saying "There's a rumor going
around that this kitchen (or bathroom) is magic, and cleans itself. It's
false! false! Please do your part!"

------
subbu
Slightly off topic. But mundane tasks like dish washing help you unwind. I
enjoy dish washing, pressing clothes or cutting vegetables at home because all
those activities give me a lot of quite time without needing much effort from
brain. The activity becomes even more enjoyable if I am taking a break from a
programming task.

------
elq
Reminds me of this story -
[http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/09/guest-
post...](http://postcards.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/09/guest-post-lessons-
in-leadership-from-a-failed-startup/)

------
j_s
My source might stop at "Wash the Dishes" in this age. (Mark 9:35)

------
VladRussian
such a motto is actually an easy trick that skillfull leaders utilize to make
their reports wash the dishes. To maintain its magic, you actually need to
promote only one of the 100 dishwashers into a leader once in a 100 years, and
fanfare that fact for the rest of the time.

------
mcantor
I feel like leadership is a balance between two things:

1\. Protecting your subordinates from ugly work (like doing dishes, emptying
the garbage, or doing laborious maintenance coding) so they can focus on
fulfilling their responsibilities

2\. Delegating ugly work so you can focus on fulfilling your responsibilities

------
willhf
I'm the dishwasher...bitch!

------
zby
Ha ha - compare and contrast with the Gervais Principle!

------
trustfundbaby
#cheeseAlert That was a pretty profound lesson I just learned.

------
wccrawford
The CEO only accomplishes 1 thing by doing the dishes: He shames everyone who
sees him doing their job.

He doesn't get my respect for it, especially if he does it more than once. It
means he failed as a leader to get people to do their job, or even to have
someone to do that job.

Sometimes, it's necessary to roll up your sleeves and get some work done, but
if you are doing other peoples' jobs, it means you aren't doing your own.

~~~
thesash
What if it isn't anyone's job to do the dishes? Early on in a startup there
are a million things that don't fit under anyone's job description, but simply
have to get done.

~~~
wccrawford
Then it's -everyone's- job. And he still failed to get them to do it.

~~~
maxwell
You must have stopped reading.

~~~
muhfuhkuh
He's the CEO, he doesn't have _time_ to read :D

~~~
epochwolf
But he has time to comment? Sounds like a good plan.

------
justin_vanw
Now you're the dishwasher. You failed 'wanting to be a leader' when you didn't
convince anyone to wash the dishes, which is why now you have to do it.

~~~
jschau
Bonaparte had to clean artillery pieces in 1793 and 1796 on his way to
Emperor.

