
Why do they love electric cars in Norway? - m-i-l
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36402942
======
reitanqild
Live here. My brother-in-law just bought the Leaf. From the people I talk to
it is always the same reasons:

* price (leaf, vw etc)

and/or

* love Tesla: compared to any other new 400+ hp luxury car the Tesla is a steal for the moment both because of buying price (around 600' NOK for the entry level Model S is cheap compared to any other new sports car around here.)

and/or

* being allowed to drive in the bus lane

On top of this you save fuel, toll roads, park for free in a lot of places,
get free ferry tickets etc etc. My former neighbours who drive for 40 minutes
to and from work said not buying the Leaf would be failing basic math.

Edit: and lets not forget being allowed to drive in the bus lane.

~~~
igravious
The following incentives from the article seem key.

    
    
        - No purchase taxes
    
        - Exemption from 25% VAT on purchase
    
        - Low annual road tax
    
        - No charges on toll roads or ferries
    
        - Free municipal parking
    
        - Access to bus lanes
    
        - 50% reduction in company car tax
    
        - No VAT on leasing

~~~
bogomipz
Yet another story on how exemplary Norway is. Yet the reason Norway is able to
provide these incentives is because they made a fortune selling oil. I'm
conflicted on these Norway stories because while I applaud all of these
efforts, the reality is that they are largely possible only because of oil
money.

~~~
pm24601
Not to mention, the Norwegians did a great job of _investing_ the oil money
wisely.

Most other oil -rich countries are plagued by corruption and/or short-term
thinking. Norway, from day one, planned for the day when there would be no
more oil money.

------
sandworm101
One very small part of the arctic circle. That title is appropriate once
electric cars are popular in the northern regions of canada and russia, who
are by far the largest occupiers of the arctic.

Some data: It looks like the leaf's range is basically halved in cold weather.
That, and the greater distances between everything in the true north, says to
me that they are a long way from adoption.

[http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1087587_what-does-it-
tak...](http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1087587_what-does-it-take-to-
drive-an-electric-car-in-canadian-winters)

Fyi, running the heater on a gas-powered car does nothing to the range. That
heat comes from engine coolant. You are doing the engine a favor, something to
remember if your engine is overheating.

~~~
vbezhenar
Electrical cars will never be popular in Russia, at least in the most parts.
You have to drive at -40 temperature; you have to drive 500-1000km in one day;
and not only drive, but keep warm temperature inside for passengers (not every
day, but your car must be able to do that sometimes). You don't have enough
money to buy many cars for different tasks, gasoline is extremely cheap
(compared to Europe) and not much people care about ecology. Electric cars
just don't suited for that.

They might become popular in Moscow and other huge cities with warm climate,
short distances and rich people.

~~~
fpoling
There are prototypes of electric cars that use aluminum batteries [1] with
energy density similar to that of gasoline. As technology improves, that can
be a viable option for extreme cold conditions.

[1] [https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/06/17/israels-phinergy-
tests...](https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/06/17/israels-phinergy-
tests-1100-mile-range-electric-car-aluminum-air-battery-system-video/)

~~~
sandworm101
> can be a viable option

To win the northern market, without massive subsidies, electric cars need to
be better than viable. They need to be better than gas car. In cold weather,
that will require an order of magnitude increase in energy density. That's a
couple decades off imho.

~~~
fpoling
The energy density of aluminum batteries is higher than that of gasoline as
they essentially burn aluminum turning it into Al2O3. The problem is that they
are typically not rechargeable making them very costly presently. But with
right infrastructure they can be better than gasoline - putting aluminum bars
into the car should be even easier/faster than pumping gasoline. And, as with
gasoline, they do not loose energy when left in cold.

------
LoSboccacc
So basically it's incentives, inventives and incentives on top of incentives.

Wouldn't call that love but hey whatever it's still a good result, right?

~~~
e12e
Yes, a lot of incentives. But another important point is that they make some
sense, due to the pervasiveness of renewable hydroelectric power in Norway.
Being an oil producing country, we could have gone the other way, and just
subsidized gasoline prices instead.

~~~
rodionos
This part of subsidies (free charging) has been getting less expensive for the
budget too, at least in nominal terms. The price of hydro-power exported to
neighboring Denmark has dropped by almost 50% since 2010, as Denmark ramped up
its wind mills, albeit also with subsidies.

[https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/ccca061b/2/](https://apps.axibase.com/chartlab/ccca061b/2/)

------
Arnt
The oil age is ending in Norway. It's considered a fact of life.

You all have heard of the petroleum fund. That money is going towards
pensions. Of course it's easier to buy an electric car if you're used to
thinkinf of the oil age that something that ends within your own working life.

~~~
danmaz74
> The oil age is ending in Norway.

With "oil age" you mean the use of oil, or its production?

~~~
Symbiote
Production. The North Sea reached "peak oil" some time ago.

Although there have been recent increases in production, the total output is
much lower than it was around 2000.

[http://www.crystolenergy.com/assessing-future-north-sea-
oil-...](http://www.crystolenergy.com/assessing-future-north-sea-oil-gas/)

~~~
sgt
The oil age in Norway is far, far from over. In fact, I suspect Norway will
still be producing oil into the year 2100 as long as there is a market for it
world-wide. Cars aren't the only things on Earth that needs oil.

In terms of future expansion, one has to consider the unexploited oil reserves
that Norway still has hidden in its sleeves. Take Lofoten, Vesterålen and
Senja which hold about 1.3 billion barrels of oil. As a comparison, the UK's
entire oil reserves is 21 billion barrels.

For now, the government has decided not to start exploiting this area.
However, a lot can happen in 10-20 years time. There may also be other
undiscovered oil reserves along the coast line.

Add to this, Norway claims 2.7 million sqm of Antarctica, about 20% of the
entire continent. Let's hope the world never comes to the point where nations
will argue over this continent because it would not end well. You can be sure
there's a lot of oil hiding there, though. 203 billion barrels worth according
to some wild speculations (I would not trust that number at all, but it is
plausible that the number is high).

------
shermozle
Demonstrating that tablet app for the Nissan Leaf perhaps isn't the best
demonstration of great technology...

[https://www.troyhunt.com/controlling-vehicle-features-of-
nis...](https://www.troyhunt.com/controlling-vehicle-features-of-nissan/)

------
beloch
I wonder how well EV's cope with arctic conditions. In areas near the ocean
temperatures generally don't get too extreme (e.g. Anchorage), but inland they
can easily get into ranges that must be challenging for batteries to cope
with.

~~~
Infernal
Anecdotal, but I was speaking with a friend from Norway about 18 months ago,
and he mentioned how you see Teslas everywhere because they are heavily
subsidized and gas is ridiculously expensive. However, he said everyone also
has a winter car, a Subaru or similar, because the electric range is so
severely limited by the cold.

~~~
loeg
> However, he said everyone also has a winter car, a Subaru or similar,
> because the electric range is so severely limited by the cold.

Article seems to suggest otherwise — population of 5 million, but only 3
million cars on the road.

~~~
Infernal
Hmm, maybe "everyone" in his context was really "everyone who has a Tesla".
It's been a minute since that conversation, but the gist was that Teslas are
popular because of subsidies, but cold-weather battery tech isn't good enough
for an EV to be your only car in Norway, supposing you need a car in the first
place.

------
dba7dba
Look up 'bjørn nyland tesla'.

It's most watched vlog about Tesla S by someone who lives in Norway. He used
to live in Oslo but also lived in the very far northern part of Norway. He
offers very detailed reviews of Tesla. Beautiful winter scenery of Norway is a
bonus.

~~~
unixhero
It's beautiful when you don't have to live it.

~~~
reitanqild
I live here and it is still beautiful. From May to early September it almost
isn't dark at night and depending on where in the country you live it
sometimes seems like living in a postcard ;-) (FTR, Norway is long, if you
turned it upside down it would stretch far into Italy they say, driving from
my place to the artic circle would be about 17 hours non-stop and then you
still have a full working day left to drive to the nortmost point or the
Russian border.)

I have lived for months as far as beyond the artic circle and have worked on
the very northermost parts for shorter trips and I loved it all the way.
(Although ski goggles and warm clothes are recommended to get anything done
outside on a windy day in the winter.)

~~~
kwhitefoot
> I live here and it is still beautiful

Me too. Never been further north than Steinkjer though.

------
orik
I can answer this question; because of tax benefits.

~~~
pm24601
Norway is applying "the polluter pays" principle. A gas car has a lot of
pollution therefore a lot of paying. Electric cars - not so much pollution,
not so much paying.

------
pipio21
If you travel to Norway, you see they have sea, mountains, and water, which
means very cheap electric energy.

Probably the only place in the world with similar cheap electric energy/person
is Iceland.

When I was in Iceland I could not stop thinking about the electric cars
possibilities there. I have not lived in Iceland in winter though, which
certainly will have more problems.

~~~
tallanvor
Unfortunately Norwegian power companies realized they could export electricity
to other countries in Europe, so electricity is not as cheap as you might
expect.

------
admin12345
[https://shareonline.in/category/vehicles/cars/](https://shareonline.in/category/vehicles/cars/)

------
davnn
Combine incentives with enough purchasing power = profit.

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1024core
I was feeling all good for Norway, till I read this:

> It helps that Norway is also the biggest oil producer in Western Europe and
> the world's third largest exporter of natural gas.

Hmmm.... You know what would really help the environment, Norway? If you
stopped drilling all that oil and gas. Your measly consumption of gas isn't
the problem; your mega export of oil is.

~~~
imtringued
Oil is needed for a lot of things other than burning it for energy.

~~~
discardorama
Oh, come on. Yeah, we do make plastics and all, but the main use is for
burning.

