
Northface teams with Japanese startup to create spider silk moon parka - nether
http://frequentgadget.com/2015/11/11/northface-teams-with-japanese-startup-to-create-spider-silk-moon-parka-jacket/
======
etiam
Discussion from a couple of weeks ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10463972](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10463972)

~~~
wuschel
I wonder in what stage they are in.

I once had a side project going to make spider silk chemically. I am still in
awe on how the spider developed this amazing tool: the cascade of chemical
reactions involved, the _spider bio-reactor_ that spins the chemicals into the
spider silk thread. And of course, so little hope to go anywhere near that
with classical chemical means.

I agree with _toufka_ on that one: _" It's hard to see unless you look
closely, but this is the beginning of biological nanotechnology."_

I wonder at what stage they are, and how the parameters of their material
compare to naturally woven spilder silk.

~~~
dnautics
I used to work in the amyloid field, which is tangentially related - last I
recall the companies were getting to 10~25% the tensile strength of spider
silk. Which suggested they were doing something fundamentally wrong.

The most obvious thing, to me, was that they were using a chemical called HFIP
"hexafluoroisopropanol" to initially dissolve the silk proteins. This solvent
forces proteins into a form called alpha helix which in this case abolishes
the protein soluble - but the transition to beta sheet (which it needs to be
for its strength) is a poor one. The amyloid field was using this a lot, and
the results were horrible. The result was extremely irreproducible results,
which the field papered over by doing experiments with an n of 1. My graduate
thesis was basically doing experiments without HFIP and getting results that
actually make sense (with higher Ns).

I reached out to Refactored Materials, which at the time was trying to do the
spider silk thing, to suggest they play with the procedures that I had
developed for amyloid work, but a trip to visit SF and give a lecture fell
through.

Recently, I was in a conversation about a SF biotech that I think rose from
the ashes of RM trying to do the spider silk thing, and apparently they aren't
using HFIP (or TFE, trifluoroethanol, a similar solvent with similar effects)
anymore, but I didn't get too many more details because these companies tend
to keep their techniques close to their chest.

Sadly, I still see papers publishing amyloid work with HFIP and TFE going
through my google scholar feed (I am now almost 7 years post-PhD).

------
saiya-jin
Anybody has a clue what for the synthetic spider material would be used? I
presume on the outer surface because of its durability, but you still need
membrane ala Goretex below it to maintain waterproof & relatively breathable
qualities, if its for outdoor activities and not just walking around the town.
Haven't seen any details in articles, and can't play video at work :(

~~~
borkt
Goretex or even waterproof fabric is not necessary in many alpine situations
where this jacket could be used. A lot of down filled insulating garments do
not have any waterproof fabric as it is and instead people prefer to just
throw a shell over them if there is any precip.

~~~
saiya-jin
Ah, for down application of course, didn't catch that part. There you want
just as windproof/everything resistant as possible, and when it's too hot, you
open/put it down.

Would be interesting to see comparison of actual benefits compared to current
high tech fabrics used, all high-fill lightweight down stuff has some nanotech
fabric to keep it light & durable.

------
gypsy_boots
When much of the dialogue around spider-silk is its strength properties, it
seems like a non sequitur when North Faces goes and makes a parka out of the
material. There was no talk of its warmth properties.

------
richmarr
Slightly anticlimactic to hear about this exciting new material becoming
available, only to find the first application of it is a jacket for rich folks
to ponce about a ski slope in. Really?

Their other stated target markets seem more interesting: automotive & medical
devices
([https://www.spiber.jp/en/endeavor](https://www.spiber.jp/en/endeavor)).
Anyone know what this would be used for in the automotive industry? Carbon
fibre substitute?

~~~
icegreentea
I think the very page you linked explains why they're targeting clothing.
Performance clothing is a high margin, high turn around market with low
regulation and relatively loose quality standards. Spiber can use this as a
test bed for scaling their processes before they can go engage more
technically and regulatory challenging fields with confidence.

This is literally one of the few fields where spider silk has a use, but isn't
actually super critical. Unlike say on an medical implant. You want to learn
about the quirks of QCing spider silk (whoa.. we really do live in the future)
on a parka, not in someone's body.

~~~
richmarr
That makes sense... starting somewhere where you don't need ergulatory
approval or medical trials.

------
dnautics
Qmonos means "spider web" or "spider nest (lit.)" In Japanese.

~~~
amake
Only if you are capable of deciphering that gibberish into the actual word,
_kumo no su_ (クモの巣).

~~~
zenir
I was really wondering, because Japanese doesn't even have a Q

~~~
silentplummet
It does have a 九 however.

------
TheSpiceIsLife
Spiber's website has more details:
[https://www.spiber.jp/en/endeavor?section=3](https://www.spiber.jp/en/endeavor?section=3)
\- click on 'Protein Materials' at top, the page seems to start loading there
but then jumps to the 'Launching' section.

------
Maarten88
Funny they create a Parka out of this.

If it were really so much stronger and lighter, why not win a Volvo Ocean Race
with sails made out of this. I'd personally be in the market for a surfing
kite if this is better than the usual spinaker nylon.

But I guess there is more money to be made in expensive clothing than in
making real progress.

~~~
leesalminen
Making real progress towards efficient boat sails?

I don't live near any body of water that's large enough to sail in, but I do
live near several mountains with peaks >14k feet. New winter jackets seem more
applicable to me.

~~~
Maarten88
Then maybe they could make a bullet-proof vest for you? A crash-absorbing
racecar? A paraglider? Those would all really benefit from stronger material,
contrary to a gimmicky parka coat.

------
fit2rule
I can't help wonder at the cognitive dissonance of people paying good money to
actually be wrapped up in a spiders cocoon. Something about it gives me the
serious heebie-jeebies .. ;)

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
One thought led to another and I imagined these new protein based synthetic
fibres being used as building materials, and then some virus being a vector
for a mutation to the bacteria used to manufacture (grow) the fibres, and
future Earth being cocooned in spider silk.

Maybe we'll work out how to get the spiders to spin us a space elevator in
exchange for a continuous supply of insects.

~~~
fit2rule
Space-spiders arrive and make contact with Earth, and at the ensuing world
party, mistakenly accept the elite rich, coddled in these outfits, as an
offering of sacrifice .. the one of probably a few cultural blunders that
eventually unite our two species' in co-habitual free-trade of commodities and
.. resources.

------
kwhitefoot
Not a single mention so far of space elevators which I always thought was the
traditional use for spider silk rope.

------
weatherlight
I'm curious. Does it rot?

