
Show HN: Run iOS apps in the browser - rogerfernandezg
http://app.io
======
mmahemoff
I'm not hearing anything, I guess audio isn't emulated yet? This would be
great with web audio. Having a podcast app, I can't unfortunately get much use
from it in the absence.

Anyway, congrats. I hope Apple's okay with it because the concept is crazy-
awesome for users and developers.

~~~
chrisnolet
Thanks! Audio is on our wish-list. We'll count this as another 'vote' for that
feature. Apple is aware of what we're out to achieve here.

~~~
Cryptex
Are they okay with it? Apple has always seemed like the type of company that
wouldn't want to dilute the "Apple Experience". I'm quite impressed they're
aware of it and haven't asked you to shut it down. Kudos.

~~~
SimHacker
Apple hasn't had much of an experience for developers recently...

------
phoboslab
Wondering how the streaming works. It seems to send a bunch of GIF images
which hold the diff from the last frame when something is moving.

The framerate is quite low at the moment, but that's probably because of HN?!

Edit: it also sends full JPEGs of the screen when there's much going on. I
believe my JSMPEG[1] would really be a viable alternative for this use-case.
Streaming support is in the works :)

[1] [https://github.com/phoboslab/jsmpeg](https://github.com/phoboslab/jsmpeg)

~~~
chrisnolet
Hi there, COO here. I wrote a good response on this when we were branded as
Kickfolio: [http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio-
work...](http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio-work-in-
simulating-iOS-apps). You're quite right - we stream diff'd GIFs and JPEGs at
different times. We did originally try encoding with FFMPEG and other
technologies, but surprisingly this works best! We're constantly improving the
algorithm. I'm just about to push up another change this weekend :)

~~~
phoboslab
While your implementation seems to be quite ingenious, the answer on Quora
doesn't explain anything besides "sending frames" and "magic happens".

I would have liked to see a more in-depth explanation, but I understand if you
don't want to share it at this point.

~~~
chrisnolet
;) Quite right - we have two patent applications in the works! So
unfortunately I can't provide a whole lot more detail at this point. Feel free
to email me though if you're interested to chat offline. Great job with JSMPEG
by the way.

------
btipling
I was able to open app.io and run the demo inside the demo on app.io when it
asked me to tweet (which got to me to Safari). It actually ran really nicely.

~~~
emdowling
Internally, we call doing that Appception :)

~~~
coherentpony
We need to tweet deeper!

~~~
coherentpony
Wow, I didn't expect this to upset so many people. Just trying to inject some
light-hearted humour.

~~~
btipling
Reddit style humor is discouraged on hacker news. Comments that aren't
thoughtful are also discouraged. I even think meta comments like this are
discouraged.

~~~
coherentpony
Reddit-style humour? It was in reference to a film.

I'm honestly flabbergasted. Oh HN, how you never fail to disappoint.

~~~
CamperBob2
The problem on Reddit isn't really the existence of lighthearted comments, but
the fact that they inevitably get moderated to the top of the thread,
obscuring more insightful comments. That's what they're trying to prevent
here, I think. I wouldn't take it personally.

------
gozmike
We've been a customer of these guys for months now. They power the preview
functionality of our app builder.

I have to say that they're a bunch of awesome folks who are responsive to
feedback and really work hard to make their service matter. Keep it up guys!

~~~
X4
@gozmike I just want to know ONE thing. How did you get to know about this
company?? I could've searched down the rabbit hole without ever hearing about
it. Mind sharing sources?

~~~
gozmike
Pieceable let us down. Somehow when looking for an alternative I stumbled upon
app.io when it was called Kickfolio.

------
ch0wn
This runs amazingly smooth, especially considering the traffic it is going to
get from HN at the moment. Kudos!

[http://www.appsurfer.com/](http://www.appsurfer.com/) does the same for
Android, but it feels definitely more sluggish than this.

~~~
daveytea
Thanks! Our technical ninjas are working their magic behind the scenes!

~~~
djt
Nice one davey!

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Janteh
That should be their headline, I didn't get what they are doing the first time
I saw the page earlier today.

~~~
hiby007
you should also check out
[http://www.appsurfer.com/](http://www.appsurfer.com/) for running android
apps.

~~~
nandhp
Amazon also has one in their app store. It runs on EC2.

For example, (picking a random paid app)
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VUCAVO](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VUCAVO)

~~~
samweinberg
That's really impressive and works well. Hopefully iOS will eventually have a
way to try out apps before purchasing.

------
so898
Just try this on my Android phone, it shows the desktop web page... If it
gives the webpage that suits for Android phones, I think this would be more
useful.

~~~
diesellaws
Hi, Designer/Co-founder here. Ed (our CEO) is currently working on a branch
called feature/mobile-optimizations...so expect big things in the coming
weeks. :)

~~~
so898
Cool!

------
RandallBrown
Very cool.

Have you seen Pieceable Viewer? It's very similar, but I believe it used an
implementation of UIKit in flash to simulate the apps. They were bought out by
Facebook, but the website is still live.
[http://pieceable.com](http://pieceable.com)

~~~
daveytea
Yep we love Pieceable and know some of the guys. They've done well!

------
stevenringo
Does this violate Apple's developer terms in any way, as you are running these
in the simulator?

~~~
daveytea
Not that we are aware of. We've shown some people in Apple and they've loved
it so far!

------
sentinel
Great work! It was super easy to set up a project and it just worked. It
_just_ worked, I love it when I can say that.

A couple of feedback points:

\- If the simulator could be more responsive, it would be great

\- Seems like even though you are simulating an iPhone 5, it doesn't use
Retina images (I'm on a MacBook Pro Retina and the images look pixelated)

\- I think being able to set up a password should be available on the free
plan as well

Also, for cost:

\- Are you thinking of also implementing a (cheaper) "freelance" payment plan?
Someone that can have up to 5 apps, but only needs a maximum of 5,000
views/month. I think the $109/month is a bit too much for a freelance
developer

~~~
chrisdevereux
Agreed. Something in the $30-$50 region with a lower usage allowance and the
ability for more (private) apps than the free allowance would be much more
palatable to me as a freelancer.

~~~
annnnd
$30-$50? Huh, how about $1 per usage?

~~~
chrisdevereux
That would be better for me (in the short-term), but supporting a large number
of low-value customers is probably not going to be sustainable for them.

~~~
daveytea
Thanks for the suggestions! This is a hot topic internally, so we'll have some
more announcements in the coming months. Keep an eye on the blog/twitter.

We haven't forgotten about the indie devs! :)

------
ssafejava
Is this at all related to the Android-streaming software on
[http://www.appsurfer.com/](http://www.appsurfer.com/), or is just a similar
idea on a different platform?

~~~
chrisnolet
Hi, COO here. It's a similar idea. We've chosen to focus on iOS first, then
branch out in to many other platforms, even beyond mobile eventually.

------
terhechte
I just tried it, and it is currently rather slow, but I suppose that is the HN
effect. I signed up for a free account nevertheless, because as luck would
have it, I'm working for a project right now, where this might come in handy.

However, I couldn't find any documentation on that, but do you also support
iPad apps? I can see that that would be a tad more difficult due to the higher
streaming data bandwith.

Nevertheless, great app, I like the idea.

~~~
emdowling
CEO here. Thanks so much for the feedback. Yep, we are currently being
slammed. Glad to have you on board. We do support iPad - checkout
[http://docs.app.io](http://docs.app.io) for a few options and ways you can
use the service.

~~~
terhechte
Ah, thanks, I found it under the API -> device page. You should put that on
the front page somewhere, that it runs on iPhone & iPad. I may be a bit slow
but since the demo was iPhone and since it is streaming, I supposed iPad was
out of the loop.

~~~
diesellaws
Hi, Designer/Co-founder here. That's great feedback, thank you. I will rework
the design to include iPad and make it more obvious we support both. :)

------
fotcorn
Can you tell us how this works? A ton of Mac Minis Streaming iOS simulator
output to a HTML5 canvas using vnc or something like that?

~~~
emdowling
It does run on Mac Mini servers. We don't use VNC, but rather our own approach
to make it work. We used to be called Kickfolio, and this Quora thread has a
nice response from one of our other co-founders, Chris.
[http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio-
work...](http://www.quora.com/How-Does-X-Work/How-does-Kickfolio-work-in-
simulating-iOS-apps)

~~~
flog
I was about to ask the question "Why didn't you use the video element" \-
answered well within the link (if anyone has the same question)

------
chrisrickard
I used this the other day and it was significantly speedier.. i'm guessing
it's the HN effect. Cool concept.

~~~
diesellaws
Thanks Chris, appreciate the support. [Co-founder]

------
jpincheira
Sorry guys, nice flat design and everything, but I'm on fiber and on a brand
new MacBook Retina 15", and it is _sloooow_.

Good idea, but slow like this, not acceptable.

~~~
tonylemesmer
Its a shame that it is so slow, especially when its pretty amazing to be able
to do this in a browser. Perhaps whilst the HN storm is taking place a less
intensive demo could be implemented.

~~~
X4
Dude have some respect, the just got HN'ed, it's okay. Check them again some
hours or a day later. I guess they will add more bandwith when they have more
customers to pay it.

------
bsaul
Do you plan on integrating with cloud storage / sourcecode providers ?
Something like a github instant preview, either directly on the project's home
page, or in the source browser. Or, an HTML widget to enable developers /
companies to embed previews of their work directly on their blog / homepages.

I can see a pretty bright future for your company, congrats.

~~~
chrisnolet
The good folk at Jenkins actually created a plugin for the CI platform which
we love: [https://wiki.jenkins-
ci.org/display/JENKINS/App.io+Plugin](https://wiki.jenkins-
ci.org/display/JENKINS/App.io+Plugin). We have an API so if anybody is keen to
integrate with GitHub we'd gladly welcome it! Embedding into blogs and on
homepages is possible today via a simple iFrame and is one of our core use
cases. Thanks for your feedback and positive outlook on App.io's future.

------
elisee
FYI emdowling
([https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=emdowling](https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=emdowling))
from app.io is replying to comments here with useful info but his account
seems to have been hellbanned. You can turn showdead on in your HN profile
page to read what he wrote.

------
TheMakeA
We've been a customer for a few months now and use it to power the runtime for
our App-Development-In-The-Cloud[1] startup. Very cool, and Chris et al are
very nice and helpful guys!

[1] [http://www.cloupp.com](http://www.cloupp.com)

~~~
chrisnolet
Thanks mate! Appreciate the kind works and your hard work in building
something great for developers, too!

------
millerm
This seems really cool. Unfortunately my app crashes and I can't see any logs
to know why. I have some ideas as to why, but I won't know unless I can get to
the log. I posted a message to the support link but no response. Logs would be
good.

------
dcaunt
Very cool - I notice it works well on iOS Safari too.

Any plans for a native app or mobile optimised interface? For some apps, being
able to touch is going to make the demo experience much better, and hopefully
convert more users to paid installs.

~~~
chrisnolet
Hi, COO here. Thanks for your feedback. Coincidentally, we have a mobile-
optimized version being finished off shortly! We agree that a native app would
be great. More on that in the coming months.

------
natasham25
Would love to use this on my blog all the time, but the price point is way out
of range. I've tried it though, and it's incredible if you can afford it.

~~~
daveytea
Hey Natasham25, there's also a free plan that you can sign up for. You'll be
able to embed it on your blog (for free) as long as the app plays stay under
the limit.

------
markshepard
Very cool! This actually can be very useful for our company to demo apps. I
guess audio is not there yet, but still very nice and great URL as well.

------
sticksen
I´m currently loading up my app and it takes forever to finish. Would be good
if I could see one sample app and how exactly the whole thing works.

~~~
chrisnolet
Hi there. It shouldn't take too long to process. I suggest clicking 'Support'
from the dashboard and we'll investigate further. It may be an .IPA instead of
an .APP (we require the simulator build), or we may need to reprocess your app
manually. Sorry for any inconvenience.

~~~
sticksen
Thanks Chris, I just sent you a message via the support interface. Cheers!

------
robert-boehnke
Are they running one Mac OS X instance per Simulator or is there a way to run
multiple Simulators at once that I don't know of?

~~~
emdowling
CEO here. We are running on Mac OS X and you can run multiple simulators by
using multiple user accounts. This is a part of our approach but not all of it
:)

------
nej
I can't tell what the difference between the Pro and Business package is other
than the price. Can you clarify? Cool idea btw.

~~~
diesellaws
Hi, Co-founder here. The Pro plan allows you up to 5 apps and 20,000 app plays
per month. The Business plan allows you up to 20 apps and 100,000 app plays
per month. More info can be found here:
[https://app.io/#pricing](https://app.io/#pricing)

~~~
nej
I missed it since the first thing I did after seeing the demo was click Sign
Up.

------
dharma1
This works surprisingly well, great job. How many instances of iOS emulator
can you run per machine? Do you run your own servers?

------
mcobrien
@emdowling - your comments aren't showing up here - maybe because your account
is new? The service looks awesome btw!

------
stevewillows
Really great work!

This will also be great for us android users to see what all the hype about
certain apps is all about.

------
voltagex_
OK, the tech behind this could be the first serious competitor to Teamviewer
in a while. This is cool!

------
spyder
HN killed it? "Could not launch the application"

~~~
daveytea
Ahh the HN effect. Looking into it now. Thanks for the heads up!

------
X4
WOWSOME!!

How did he make it? How is that even possible?

~~~
chrisnolet
Haha, thanks mate. Just hard work and iteration!

------
batgaijin
what is this, virtualization for ants?

------
jezfromfuture
no idea the point of this but seems at first pointless

~~~
diesellaws
Hi, Co-founder here. Thanks for the honesty. We have found that people are
drawn to our service for one or two big reasons. The first is the ability to
quickly share a test build of an app amongst the team for feedback and
iteration. No downloads, no installs - just a URL.

The second is the ability to market your app to your clients or fans via your
website or through Facebook, to get instant engagement (vs a
banner/screenshot) to drive downloads. We've found it to be highly effective
and the average app play is about 1:30. Hope that helps!

------
thomasfl
Demo?

~~~
diesellaws
Hi, co-founder/designer here. The iPhone on our home page is actually a live
demo of Prismadrop (using App.io). Appreciate the feedback - I will work to
make it clearer in the future so everyone is aware it's a live demo.

~~~
thomasfl
I thought it was simply an animation. It would help if the frontpage told you
what was going on.

If iOS apps can run in a browser absolutely any application for ant platform
could run from within a browser window.

------
homakov
ok it's nice

but why?

~~~
daveytea
I wish i could embed pictures... but:
[http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/289/9/1/why_not__by_r...](http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/289/9/1/why_not__by_rober_raik-d4czhw0.png)

~~~
mst
At this moment, I rather wish you could as well - but I really don't wish that
everybody could. Some of the meme heavy github issues threads I've seen have
led me to the conclusion that it would just make me cry.

