

Long hours and zombie-like employees at Gameloft Auckland - wozname
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10740540#

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smoyer
A French-owned company? Does anyone else see the irony in this? I'll add a
link to an old article if I can find it, but I remember a small software
company owner in France being fined when some of his workers exceeded 45 hours
a week.

Edit:

Here are two articles from when the workweek in France was shortened but I
haven't found the article I'm looking for yet. My point isn't really to
denigrate France's laws but it would seem that these jobs were shipped out of
the country so that more work could be expected from each employee.

<http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_18/b3627192.htm>
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/25/european_working_pra...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/25/european_working_practices_are_barrier/)

~~~
teamonkey
How is that ironic? There's no reason why two offices of a multinational have
to share the same working practices.

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flocial
Sadly, this is pretty much Japan in a nutshell. People don't complain either.
It wrecks your productivity, health, and family. Also does nothing for the
economy. The funny thing about the threat of power outages after the
earthquake is that suddenly people are trying to find ways to work shorter
hours and be more productive for God and country.

Unreasonable hours create a downward spiral. Walking away is an option but
fighting back takes courage. Either way the company ends up the biggest loser
over time as the best leave for greener pastures.

~~~
patio11
_People don't complain either._

I think you can put an asterix on this one. People don't complain about long
hours in Japanese megacorps for the same reason they don't complain about them
in game development studios: if you care enough to complain, you're at nearly
zero risk of ending up with that job. Nobody becomes seishain at a Japanese
megacorp and then suddenly gets surprised about the working conditions. I went
into it with eyes wide open, too. (Although I really underestimated how much
that would impact my happiness.)

The folks who would most dislike 17 hour days or 70 hour weeks communicate
their displeasure by opting out of the system entirely. (Or, if they're young
ladies, by going the pink collar route and quitting at 25 when they get
married or 27 when their first child is born.) There is an oft-reported thing
for Japanese young men of my generation to take to, basically, grifting (odd
jobs, part time employment, mooching off parents, etc) as opposed to doing the
salaryman thing, because the salaryman thing sucks so badly. It is probably
exaggerated because it sells newspapers, but I'll bet there is a kernel or two
of truth in it (c.f. "metrosexuals", "sexting", etc)

Similarly, if you look around my social circle of Japanese techy friends,
you'll see a bunch of societal rejects. Not because they're geeky anime nerds,
although a few are. They just saw the handwriting on the wall and said "Meh,
not for me." So we've got freelancers, folks ensconced in various academic
posts, weird government sinecures for techno-artists, a raft of quirky
startups, permanent students, etc etc. (I'm not exactly Grade A Salaryman Role
Model Material myself anymore, either, even for a white guy.)

That said: any viable alternative to this system, whether for Japan or the
video game industry or Silicon Valley or anywhere else its evil takes root, is
a victory for all that is good and just in the world.

~~~
flocial
I can't agree with you more. I remember coming across a blog of one such
individual, rejected school and Japanese corporate society, drifted for a
while but suddenly got the urge to quit being a NEET and traveled the world.
Learned English, graduated an Australian college, got a seishain job at a
Japanese company, became a dropout again, went to Singapore, multi-national
company adores him.

The problem with the salary man system is it's so demographically bankrupt.
Work to death on low pay while you're young, kick back and let the young work
for you as you get older and better paid (co-opted by your more capable co-
workers if you suck at what you do). Doesn't work with a shrinking population
and dismal economy.

There are so many brilliant, young Japanese people out there and IT is a real
magnet for them. But they're not the aggressive type either. The American
equivalent wouldn't afraid to start a company or pick up women if they find
someone attractive, though they may be more shy than the general population.
The Japanese mirror national tendencies. I hope this crisis provokes long-
lasting change. It's already given me some hope to see how the younger
generation are taking more charge after seeing the power of technology to make
real differences in the world.

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exit
> _A Gameloft employee, who asked not to be named, said a clause in their
> contracts allowed for a "reasonable amount" of unpaid overtime._

why is that kind of language allowed at all in contracts?

~~~
dexen
Why does a contract ever provide for _unpaid_ overtime?

Surely overtime is necessary once in a while to match a deadline. However,
having a modest premium on it is an easy way of ensuring the amount of the
overtime will remain _reasonable_.

~~~
henrikschroder
It can be compensated differently. For example, it's pretty standard in Sweden
to have 6 weeks of vacation (instead of the usual 5) in exchange for
reasonable unpaid overtime.

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JeffL
I've seen and heard about this a lot in US gaming companies too. The culture
is something like "we're so passionate about games that we have to do super-
crunch time to get things finished by the deadline." But I think the reality
is that a lot game companies tend to just be run extremely poorly. People who
are more competent managers and want to make money are in other industries,
people who "just want to make games", are making games, and I think at least
on the management side, that dilutes the talent pool a lot.

It could be my personal limited experience, but I've seen several really badly
run game companies, and none that seemed to be run well at all.

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miahi
That's normal for Gameloft. It's the same in Romania. They don't need quality,
they just need volume (mobile development = lots of devices = lots of tests =
lots of versions), so they hire students with low salaries and put them to
work unpaid overtime until they can't take it no more. Then they leave for a
better job (which they could not get before because "no previous job" doesn't
sound good in a resume for most of the companies).

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darklajid
"A spokesman said legislation did not stipulate the maximum number of hours an
employee could work (..)"

Really? Is this common/normal? A problem only in that (IT) sector? What about
other professions (I assume medical personal, public transportation drivers
etc. at least have rules for that)?

This is one of these eye-opening moments where something I took for granted
(my bad, I guess) is realigned with reality.

~~~
latch
Some simple research into NZ law brings up a fairly well organized page about
the minimum rights: <http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/minimumrights/index.asp>

Of interest, the Break entitlements doesn't cover anything relevant. However,
the Health & Safety section seems relevant (IANAL) and then there's this
beauty:
[http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/starting/relationships/goodfaith.a...](http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/starting/relationships/goodfaith.asp)

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nhangen
There are two options here:

1\. Keep working, and stop crying about it. 2\. Quit

Yeah it sucks, but as someone who worked these kind of hours in the military,
without the ability to quit, I don't feel any sympathy.

You empower your employer to treat you like this, and there are many
industries where this is near the norm.

~~~
flocial
Or 3. Call the bastards on their bad behavior so other programmers think twice
before applying.

There's nothing wrong with outing a company that treats their employees like
expendables. The gaming industry's had a bad reputation for horrid working
conditions for some time. Maybe it's time to wake up.

~~~
nhangen
I don't think it's wrong to go public, but going to the department of labor
seems backwards. I'm not familiar with the laws there, but I don't see how
this could be regulated outside of a collectively bargained union contract?

Edit: I'd like to see a response behind these downvotes. As a business owner
and employee, I'm confused.

~~~
latch
What? I'm not sure where you live, but the vaste majority of
countries/states/territories/whatever have laws that protect employees with
respect to working hours.

Your remark is so odd to me, I feel like I either completely misunderstood it
or you live in a very sad place.

edit: What you are saying to me sounds like "It's odd that you called the
police because someone shot you; I really don't see how this could be resolved
except for forming a vigilante group"

~~~
dantheman
The objection is that people should be able to voluntarily interact in any way
they see fit. If they want to work lots of hours then there is nothing wrong
with this.

This is very different than being shot, which is a violation of someones
rights.

~~~
latch
A couple points. First, some of the labour laws that I've seen actually
_explicitly_ forbid such agreements because they are afraid it'll lead to
abuse...kinda like "agree to work a 20 hour shift or you're fired." The
strictest I've seen for this is around minimum wage and minimum vacation time.
Simply, there are some rights you can't give away because it would too easily
lead to people taking them away.

Secondly, sleep _is_ a basic human right. It's possible that you just take it
for granted.

~~~
nhangen
That's the problem - you see the employer as a bad guy taking away someone's
sleep, but the employee has a choice no?

Are you going to argue next that having a job, with perfect hours and perfect
pay, is also a right?

~~~
ido
AFAIK in the western world this sort of "freedom" is only available in the USA
(if at all, I am not that familiar with the laws over there).

In Austria it is illegal[1] not to offer compensation for working overtime,
and I'll bet it is the same in NZ as well.

[1] <http://www.wko.at/ubit/kv/IT-KV_2011.pdf>

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gst
"A Gameloft employee, who asked not to be named, said a clause in their
contracts allowed for a "reasonable amount" of unpaid overtime."

And another clause most likely allows them to quit with a two weeks notice.
Why don't you just quit?

~~~
iam
A lot of new employees have either relocation or signing bonuses, that would
have to be repaid if they left the company within 1-2 years. Compounding this,
the bonus is usually given out pre-tax but has to be repaid post-tax.

So sometimes there really isn't an option but to finish the year(s) or take a
big financial hit.

