
New Social Media Question on DS-160 and DS-260 Visa Applications - throwmex
http://immigrationgirl.com/new-social-media-question-on-ds-160-and-ds-260-visa-applications/
======
dontbenebby
This is alarming considering many people have multiple handles. Anonymous
speech is a major reason America exists[1] and is a constitutional right[2]:

> _In Watkins v. United States (1957), NAACP v. Alabama (1958), Bates v.
> Little Rock (1960), and Gibson v. Florida Legislative Investigation
> Committee (1963), the Court protected the anonymity of members of
> controversial groups to ensure their First Amendment right of association._

Imagine a visitor has handles not tied to their real name. (Maybe they don't
feel comfortable criticizing their government under their real name)

Should the visitor be forced to list these sensitive identifies in order to
enter America?

Keep in mind that lying to border officials is pretty much always a reason to
be permanently barred from _any_ country.

I hope our allies lead by example and don't respond in kind - I'd hate to have
to get turned away at the Peace Bridge because I wouldn't lie and wouldn't
endanger my privacy.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Federalist_Papers)

[2] [https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/32/anonymous-
speech](https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/32/anonymous-speech)

~~~
mirimir
> Imagine a visitor has handles not tied to their real name. (Maybe they don't
> feel comfortable criticizing their government under their real name)

I have used at least 100 personas over the past decade.

But I've gone out of my way to avoid associating _any_ of them with my
meatspace identity. I compartmentalize by VM, Internet connection path via
VPNs and Tor, contacts, activities, interests, and language.

> Should the visitor be forced to list these sensitive identifies in order to
> enter America?

I wouldn't. Because I'm confident enough that they couldn't be associated with
me. Not without concerted effort by the FBA and/or NSA. Also, I have retained
no records of all but ~10 of them, so I couldn't disclose them if I wanted to.

So bottom line, if you have sensitive identifies that you wish to keep
private, they had better be thoroughly compartmentalized. Nobody who knows you
in meatspace should know anything about any of them.

~~~
jrochkind1
So you get a visa of some kind, maybe it's not just a tourist visa but one
that lets you stay here for years, maybe eventually you even get a green card,
maybe you get married and have kids here.

If they ever find even one of those identities, they can legally kick you out
forever.

If you even later _get citizenship_ , they can possibly revoke that
citizenship and kick you out forever.

It's a pretty big risk there.

~~~
mirimir
Yes, it's a huge risk.

But if an immigrant has identities that would get them kicked out, disclosing
them would just keep them out. And if any of those are readily discoverable,
it's probably not worth even trying to get a visa or immigrate.

But if there are ~innocuous identities, it's best to disclose them. Unless
there are links to not so innocuous ones.

~~~
goodold
But even if all of your 10000 identities are innocuous, perhaps disclosing as
many as 10000 identities itself get get your visa rejected.

~~~
mirimir
That's an _excellent_ point.

So if you're going to have numerous identities, it's best to do it right. And
maybe then not disclose them.

But still iffy, if you know that you'll likely be emigrating.

------
throwmex
No one will bother. Because this does not affect citizens.

Let's see how many will call their congressmen about this because it violates
rights of non US citizens.

~~~
dontbenebby
> No one will bother. Because this does not affect citizens.

I, a US citizen literally JUST spoke out against the practice in the post you
are directly replying to.

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thtthings
I am so glad I left the US to get a PR in Canada. I have a multiple entry
10-year tourist visa to US now. The immigration system will never get
reformed. Once the recession follows in a year or two and unemployment goes up
no when is going to talk about immigration(no one cares now but they will care
even less).

------
omegaworks
They're adding more hurdles for prospective immigrants, and for those that get
through the system to retrospectively invalidate naturalization because of
incomplete information on a form.

[https://theintercept.com/2019/04/04/denaturalization-case-
ci...](https://theintercept.com/2019/04/04/denaturalization-case-citizenship-
parvez-khan/)

------
nraynaud
And remember that they want the list of all the clubs and associations you
have ever been “associated” (not just a member) with in your lifetime if you
apply for a green card. They want the address, name of the president and dates
of association, for your entire life.

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scrumper
> estimated that 0.005% of U.S. visa applicants worldwide, or in the range of
> 65,000 individuals per year,

1,300,000,000 people apply for visas each year?!

~~~
gniv
That cannot be right. There are about 10 mil visas issued, so the number of
applications cannot be much higher (it costs $160 to apply). So probably 13
mil.

~~~
sbayeta
My US Visa is good for ten years (B1-B2 from Argentina, paid $160 and
submitted the DS-160). If they all are like mine, then maybe it's 1.300.000.
That's consistent with the total 10M you mentioned.

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jen729w
FWIW this has been a question on the ESTA (visa waiver for, say, Australians)
for at least 2 years.

~~~
vinni2
Ya but isn’t it optional?

~~~
jen729w
As far as I remember it's the same question. It's easy to say no ... I mean, I
_have_ a Twitter account, but I can't remember the last time I posted. Easy
enough to forget about, no?

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arendtio
Does someone know which platforms/providers are available in the dropdown
menu? I mean, sure there will be Facebook and Twitter but what about
HN/Reddit/Imgur/Whatsapp for example?

~~~
ufo
Someone else took a picture of the drop down menu:

[https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-
policy-d...](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-
debate/1972026-ds-160-us-visa-application-now-requires-social-media-
accounts.html)

It seems to match the list that appeared in the news earlier:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/30/world/americas/travelers-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/30/world/americas/travelers-
visa-social-media.html)

> The proposal covers 20 social media platforms. Most of them are based in the
> United States: Facebook, Flickr, Google+, Instagram, LinkedIn, Myspace,
> Pinterest, Reddit, Tumblr, Twitter, Vine and YouTube. But several are based
> overseas: the Chinese sites Douban, QQ, Sina Weibo, Tencent Weibo and Youku;
> the Russian social network VK; Twoo, which was created in Belgium; and
> Ask.fm, a question-and-answer platform based in Latvia.

~~~
josephg
I applied for a visa waiver for a short term trip to the US a couple of weeks
ago. They asked about social media, but the question was optional.
Surprisingly, Github was also on the list there. I’m not sure what border
patrol agents will think of my pull requests - but so long as that question is
optional I’m going to opt out of answering it.

~~~
__m
Obviously they’ll deny you entry if you don’t adhere to the national coding
style. It’s about time a nation has the courage to enforce curly braces on a
new line.

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swiley
It would have been helpful to get the bill number so we could know who voted
for it... Oh, wait, the president just declared that this is the way it is
(justified by "terrorism" of course.)

I thought we had rules.

~~~
dredmorbius
US government operates on a number of bases -- not all rules are based on
legislation.

Generally, by order pf precedent; Constitution, case law, legislation (US
Code), regulation (Code of Federal Regulations), and executive orders. Plus
others, such as court procedure, prosecutorial discretion, and more.

LLI's resources at Cornell University are a good start (though not a complete
list).

[https://www.law.cornell.edu](https://www.law.cornell.edu)

------
sailfast
Anybody listed “NONE” and run into issues? One might also delete accounts or
add caveats that they are not your personal accounts?

Also yet another reason to stop engaging in these networks. This is actually
using them for surveillance and network analysis and you have no insight into
what’s happening. The companies are allowing it.

Just have to hope your ex high school girlfriend isn’t an anarchist or has a
friend of a friend that “liked” a terrorist video I guess?

~~~
dclowd9901
It looks like, according to the article, you at least have to have a history
of email accounts. I don’t know if that applies for the other social accounts.

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gfaure
Anyone who wants to see the exact wording can start a DS-160 application at
[https://ceac.state.gov/genniv](https://ceac.state.gov/genniv).

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andr
I wonder what happens some of your social media accounts are private. Do they
just move on, or do they get the data from the provider?

------
droithomme
There's absolutely no search hits on the text of this question. Is this real?

~~~
whoisjuan
Well of course you won't find search hits for this. This is an online form you
get when applying for a visa. It doesn't get indexed by search engines since
it's hidden behind an application system.

~~~
droithomme
It's obviously a hoax, which is obvious with even the smallest amount of
research. People who fell for the hoax should be pretty embarrassed.

[https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-
other/DS-160_...](https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/PDF-
other/DS-160_Example.pdf)

~~~
whoisjuan
You're linking a DS-160 example from 2017. I don't understand what are you
trying to disprove (or prove) with this.

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intricatedetail
That's why I am not going to visit the US. It is essentially becoming another
dystopian police state. Shame because there is so many great places to see
there, but there is also plenty of other countries that are no paranoid
controlling freaks. I can only vote with my wallet.

~~~
pnw_hazor
Which countries do you travel to that DO NOT check social media as part of
their visa process?

Here is a 2015 article talking about it being done in the UK and how the US is
lagging because they were not using social media as part of the visa process.

[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12054754...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/12054754/Immigration-
officers-to-check-social-media-of-applicants-to-root-out-fanatics.html)

~~~
NamTaf
China has never asked me for my social media accounts in any of the multiple
times I've applied for a visa.

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kevin_b_er
You have few, if any, fundamental rights at or near the US border. It is why
PR releases from the ALCU call it a "Constitution Free Zone".

~~~
tptacek
As we can clearly see with this comment, that's a headline that does much more
harm than good. In fact: you are broadly subject to search at the US border
(that "exception" to the presumption against search was in effect during the
administrations of the framers of the Constitution), but that's approximately
the extent of it (don't get us started on that dumb map they drew).

It helps nobody to perpetuate the idea that you lose your rights to due
process, &c simply by dint of being intercepted by CBP at the border.
Similarly: citizens of the US can neither be detained indefinitely nor denied
entry at the border.

~~~
kevin_b_er
Yes you conveniently ignore that you are not secure in your persons, effects,
or papers at the border. What happens if you refuse to unlock your phone as a
US Citizen?

~~~
rayiner
The constitution doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be secure in those things
“under all circumstances.” It says you shall be secure in those things
“against unreasonable searches and seizures.” Searches at the border have
always been considered reasonable.

