

Apple refuses to replace overheated iPad due to jailbreaking - mikecane
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/19286?

======
edster
I waited to jailbreak my original iPhone until I got my new 3GS. I wonder why
that is?

Should we automatically believe the author of the post that he didn't try
overclocking the CPU while tinkering with it? That the jailbreak didn't
exploit a hole in a power management routine which ended up with a nasty side
effect?

I'm sorry people, but I have to agree with Apple/Motorola and the corporate
types on this. Software can impact the hardware, so yes indeed tinkering with
the software can void the warranty of the hardware.

~~~
tomjen3
So if I install a screwed up program on my windows machine, MS may claim the
warrenty was voided?

No? Then Apple doesn't have the right to.

~~~
stcredzero
Most desktops would be hard-pressed to cook themselves through a
software/firmware hack unless significantly (stupidly) overclocked. In
contrast, lots of mobile devices could cook themselves with such hacks even
without any overclocking.

There's also a significant difference between firmware and just installing
software. The PC manufacturer and MS expect you to install any old software on
that windows boxen. Apple did not manufacture the iPad with that expectation,
and they were up-front about this.

If you want a hackable tablet, there have been plenty of options around since
2001! I know, because I have one!

~~~
saurik
The only thing you could do is run a process at high CPU load for a long time,
and you can do that in the App Store by plugging the device in and letting it
sit there with a game running.

Please note that the iPad jailbreak (unlike the ones used on iPhones) does not
actually modify the bootloader and only has minimal kernel access (changing
things that, frankly, would make it use less CPU load as it no longer
validates signature certificates on binary code it is loading).

(Also, there have been plenty of options since long before 2001, and I know
because I have those ;P. Check out the Compaq Concerto running Windows 3.11
for Pen. Frankly, I wouldn't call the iPad a tablet, and neither does Apple:
pens are a defining characteristic.)

\- Jay Freeman (saurik) [on the various jailbreak teams, developer of Cydia]

~~~
stcredzero
There's also Android tablets aplenty in the works. Thank you very much for
your work on Cydia, I am a delighted user of it on my 1st gen iPhone.

The old tc1100 supports basically 90% of the use cases for my iPad, but the
iPad is just more comfortable to use, particularly since it lacks the stylus.
(With the one exception of drawing.)

Also, just because the jailbreak itself doesn't cause more CPU use, this
doesn't mean that the jailbreak couldn't enable something thermally harmful.
It's also not reasonable for Apple to have to determine forensically that you
didn't harm anything -- it's impossible to prove a negative! Now, if someone
was playing a game on an non-jailbroken device plugged into the charger and
fried it, they would be entitled to satisfaction from Apple since they were
running it on the terms Apple sold it. If you don't like these, either don't
buy the device or take the risk of not having the warranty to fall back on.
The similar physics of these two situations isn't the issue here, it's all
about the legal terms of the sale.

------
michael_dorfman
_Admittedly, the warranty implications of jailbreaking iOS-based devices
aren't a secret. However, blaming the user for hardware malfunction (and
subsequent damage) seems a little out there._

Sorry, but I'm with Apple on this one.

For all we know, the unauthorized software is disabling the fan and churning
the CPU up the yin-yang.

You want Steve's support on Steve's hardware, you play by Steve's rules. It's
that simple.

~~~
fname
Wouldn't this fall under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act? Isn't it then on
Apple to prove the software didn't cause the hardware malfunction?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act)

~~~
gte910h
Yes, it may. Hasn't been tested in courts to my knowledge though.

------
nlawalker
"Apple refuses to replace dropped iPad with voided warranty."

Apple fans: you know that user experience you value so dearly? The slick
interfaces and integration between applications and devices? The way you can
take an Apple product out of the box and have it "just work?" The ability of
Apple to bend over backwards to make you happy by doing things like
immediately replacing devices that malfunction?

 _Those things are all possible because of Apple's walled garden_. If you take
your Apple device that's only intended to run an Apple operating system that
was specifically designed for it and make modifications, Apple will no longer
support it. You don't get to have it both ways.

~~~
saurik
There are also people out there who aren't actually "Apple fans". People like
myself, for example, who feel that Apple's "slick interfaces" are actually
difficult to use (too much time wasted in animations and not enough time spent
on details like putting the cancel button in a uniform corner of the screen)
and that they don't know the first thing about integration between
applications (and even seem to avoid it, unlike Microsoft).

The core issue here is that this guy /dropped his device/, a condition that
Apple has /never/ claimed to do warranty replacements for. Even if you
purchase Apple Care they do /not/ cover "accidental damage". You are
completely confusing these two issues in your post and seem to be implying
that Apple /would/ have "bent over backwards" to replace it otherwise.

(And to someone who is going to reply: "I once got my dropped device
replaced", that is a single instance and does not happen for everyone, and is
certainly not their policy.)

~~~
nlawalker
The guy's argument was that he only dropped it because it got so hot, and the
fact that it got so hot is a fault in the design of the device, therefore he
should get another one under warranty.

The bulk of my post was mostly a rant about people that expect Apple to
provide products that have that Apple "magic" _and_ let them make
modifications, _and_ have Apple support them if they do.

------
tricky
If I chip my car to increase boost until the engine grenades itself, I'm not
sure I'd be headed to the dealer for a warranty replacement.

~~~
dredge
True, but if the rear lights suddenly stopped working then you'd expect the
manufacturer to replace those under warranty regardless of what you did to the
engine, wouldn't you?

Note that I'm not necessarily saying Apple have done anything wrong in this
particular case, but making any modification (a sticker on the back?)
shouldn't automatically void any warranty claim on the whole device. IMO.

------
jasonlbaptiste
I jailbroke my 3GS a couple of months ago before getting the 4. It was by far
the worst experience ever. The battery was garbage and it heated up like an
oven. If it overheated to death, I would have not been surprised.

------
protomyth
This goes along with the story on Motorola / eFuse. Jail breaking a phone is
not an exact science and can cause problems, especially in a situation like
this where the person who jail broke it doesn't have the technical prowess to
deal with problems. Even if the problem is not the new software, you are still
on the hook and need to be able to deal with the situation.

Jail breaking cost companies support money (the staff people in this story)
and they will try to minimize that money when possible (no repair for you).

~~~
tomjen3
Gee, then maybe they shouldn't make it so hard do fix in the jail break in the
first place.

------
hdx
The bad move was taking the jailbroken ipad to the store without restoring it
first.

~~~
slantyyz
Totally agree. The more you read through the story, the more you realize how
big of an idiot he is.

------
jtth
Apple replaced my jailbroken original iPhone when the battery died as a result
of using a very very shady car charger from some Chinese company.

------
lionhearted
> I asked for a hard copy of this decision for reference to a lawyer.

Whoa, going adversarial and implicitly threatening is never going to help you
get what you want.

> Apple minion snatched up my iPad again and disappeared into the back [No
> admittance!]. After another twenty minutes, he returned with "Robert H.,
> Store Manager". Robert explained to me that any unauthorized software was a
> modification. All modifications completely void the warranty.

Totally predictable. When you're asking for a favor, ask for a favor, be meek,
humble, beg and scrape a little maybe, and be gracioius. "Can I get a hard
copy for a lawyer?" is going to get you stonewalled, especially when they
don't have to help you.

> I asked if the iPad having been restored would not make this moot.

Too technical, and too late anyways. Stay friendly when you're asking for a
favor. They might've even helped him out if he was really nice and cool about
it. I bet if he'd said, "This is taking quite a while... is there any way I
can get a lender iPad if you have such a thing while you guys try to give mine
a fix? I'd mightily appreciate it, it'd mean a lot to me" - then maybe he
could have been lent one while they put in some hours to try to fix his. The
adversarial behavior means they starting going into CYA mode instead of trying
to help you.

------
napierzaza
So this person dropped his iPad, and cracked it and expected a new free one?
Warranties are offered on products with certain limitations that keep the
companies from having to replace hardware through negligence. Sounds like this
person was pretty negligent.

Also I find it funny that he says "the refused even though I said I would do a
restore on it" but also admits that the wipe bricked the system.

You take your fate into your hands when you jailbreak. If you're not smart
enough to do the wipe before bringing it in then you're not a smart person to
begin with.

