
OP-Z Synthesizer - vermilingua
https://teenage.engineering/products/op-z
======
_eLRIC
Promising similar open source project :
[https://github.com/topisani/OTTO](https://github.com/topisani/OTTO)

The progress made by the guys these last months is impressive, and both the UI
and hardware aestetics really shines (while they are inspired by the OP1, they
now have their own personality)

~~~
tinco
Awesome! How did you find out about this project? I've been looking to work on
a project like this and didn't find them.

~~~
monkeynotes
I have also seen this project while looking for an open source VST in a pi-box
thing. Looks really neat.

~~~
fit2rule
There are a couple of these kinds of devices you might not have tuned into
yet, namely:

Axoloti:

[http://www.axoloti.com/](http://www.axoloti.com/)

(There are great cases/knobs/button boxes for this, for example check this
thread out for the mad directions things can take:
[https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158092](https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158092))

Organelle:

[https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle](https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle)

Another very cute, very programmable portable digital synth ..

And then there are things like this, which I had the pleasure of playing
recently at superbooth:

Sonicware ELZ1:

[https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1](https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1)

So, yeah .. lots of little portable, digital and analog synths in the OP-1/-Z
style format.

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elsherbini
I have an OP-1 and an OP-Z. More and more I use the OP-Z, the sequencing
workflow is just incredible. I don't have an ios device and after climbing the
learning curve it's totally functional without a screen.

Also, the OP-Z can be used to sequence several pieces of external hardware at
once [0]. Definitely not a toy. It has it's quirks (e.g. adding your own
samples requires chopping them to exactly 6 seconds or all hell breaks loose,
and no ability to "zoom in" on your sequence if you have multiple trigs per
step) but it's a trade-off for all the power in the form factor.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM)

~~~
emzperx
Zoomings been in beta for ages. In the latest fw samples on synth tracks can
be <=6 seconds and wav also.

~~~
elsherbini
Oh great, I need to update then! Is the beta available to test somewhere?

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jypepin
Whatever Teenage Engineering makes, it looks awesome and seems to be of great
quality.

I randomly found out about them and started looking at a bunch of youtube
videos, it made me really want to check those things out.

I ended up buying a PO-33 KO, it's super fun. Turns out I can't make music
(and don't really care for it) but the quality of the product is awesome and
I'd recommend to anyone interested in music.

~~~
jnskw
I'm in the same boat. I really like the product but have a really hard time
creating anything enjoyable.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Same, I'm drawn to the buttons and knobs and flashing lights and cables
though.

Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a
thing create random noises to actual music?

I mean this device is a big initial investment. The Pocket Operators less so
though.

A colleague also showed me the Korg Monologue, which has a lot of things going
for it (synthesizer + sampler built in one, only thing lacking maybe is drums
/ beats but you could hook it up to idk, GarageBand maybe and stream it
through or add it later?)

~~~
awild
I started from scratch with ableton and have worked my way up to make decent
techno music. [0] I've watched a ton of YouTube channels on production and
just fiddled around with every effect. It's best to start out with a basic
loop you enjoy and then iterate on it [1], if you're not feeling it, put it
aside and work on another loop and come back later. In my opinion the most
important thing is to try and imitate the things you like because it reveals a
lot about the music, which is a good learning experience, and additionally
about your own way of hearing etc. It's also important to see theory as a sort
of praxis, most of the stuff is empiric and after the fact, nothing really
matters, but it's useful to know for when you're stuck.

[0]: [https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/of-necessity-
absolut...](https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/of-necessity-absolute-
nonsense)

[1]: [https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/vile-
break/s-e7EV6](https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/vile-break/s-e7EV6)

~~~
mskullcap
Very nice music! Thanks for sharing.

------
kennywinker
Some alternatives if the op-z isn’t quite hitting the spot for you:

Elektron Digitakt - powerful sampler / sequencer. No synth engine but you can
make many synth sounds using single-cycle samples.

Elektron Digitone - same form-factor as above but with an fm synthesis engine
(think yamaha dx7) instead of a sampler.

Novation Circuit - wayyy cheaper. Can play samples but not sample live.
Powerful synth engine, not fully editable without a computer. Good for live
improve with pre-composed patterns.

~~~
monkeynotes
Synthstrom Deluge (Synth, drums, amazing sequencer, sampler and soon to be
live looper in v3) was the choice for me when considering TE products. I
almost bought a bunch of Pocket Operators, then I looked at the cost and
decided to just pull the trigger on what I really wanted and got a Deluge. I
love it, so much.

~~~
rwmj
The USP of the Deluge seems to be the isomorphic(?) chord keyboard. How did
you find that to be? Was it easy to learn?

I admit I would love one but the price puts me off.

~~~
monkeynotes
Personally the major selling point of the Deluge, and the reason I love it so
much, is the sequencer. It's the most intuitive sequencer I've used and allows
you to flow and work quickly.

The scale note keyboard is good, but not all that playable, a LaunchPad might
be better for doing similar but with aftertouch and bigger pads. That said,
it's a very welcome feature and easy to use for coming up with ideas and
staying in key.

I am not a musician though, at all. I am rubbish at music, but the Deluge has
helped me make smiles and dive into hours of sounds and beats I thought I'd
never be able to make. I've spent time in Ableton and never got anything much
out of mouse clicking, mostly just frustration with all the options and
tedious input methods. With the Deluge I can turn it on and quickly lay down a
simple chord progression, a drum beat, and make a bass line that satisfies.
Then I twist filter knobs and mute tracks, and just jam on it for hours.

Oh, and its battery powered, so I take it everywhere. It's just such a
wonderful piece of technology. Easily worth every penny I spent on it.

~~~
rwmj
Thanks - I looked at a video of the sequencer, and it seems a lot like the
Tenori-On (which I have).

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bborud
Teenage Engineering make astonishing products you just want to own even though
you have no use for them. There is something deeply aesthetically pleasing
about their devices.

If the price hadn't been so steep for their OP-1 I would have bought one on
impulse years ago.

~~~
siralonso
I've been traveling full-time for a year and living out of basically one big
rolling-suitcase. Every time I'm back in the states, I convince myself to put
the OP-1 in storage - it's just taking up weight, I could just as well use
Ableton, etc...

...but I can never bring myself to leave it. I don't use it a ton, but when I
do I get sucked into it for 4+ hours. I especially love to use it on long
international flights (I read someplace this was one of the design goals), and
my tape tracks are crammed with loops from the last 5 years - it's
unexpectedly nostalgic to listen back.

I originally bought it because of that strange impulse you mentioned, at a
time when I really shouldn't have been buying expensive synth-toys - but I'm
so, so glad that I did. Totally encourage you to pick one up if you ever get
the opportunity!

~~~
jskopek
I’m in a very similar situation with the OP-Z! No musical background, bought
it because I was curious about the UI. I find myself getting sucked into it
for hours at a time, even though I haven’t yet made a beat I’d be comfortable
sharing.

My original plan was to sell the OP-Z after a few months, but now I think I
will hold onto this thing until it dies.

~~~
coldpie
> No musical background, bought it because I was curious about the UI. I find
> myself getting sucked into it for hours at a time, even though I haven’t yet
> made a beat I’d be comfortable sharing.

Study music theory! Seriously, it's more of a science than an art. The art
comes in how you apply it. I made a huge jump from making little 10-second
loops to making enjoyable music after I learned a little theory. It is well
worth your time.

~~~
hellofunk
Yet most musicians are not consciously aware of theory while they make music.
So you don’t really apply music theory, many great artists don’t actually know
the theory much at all.

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unsatchmo
The decision to depend on an external device is going to suck in 30 years.
This is where the OP1 shines. Meanwhile I have synthesizers from the 70's and
80's that still work well and sound amazing.

~~~
sdenton4
My sense is that it doesn't strictly rely on an external device - you can find
your way to where you like without a screen... My long-term fear is what
happens when the internal batteries get old.

(I love my OP-1 and pile of pocket operators; Teenage Engineering is doing
amazing work.)

~~~
mastazi
Maybe I misunderstood the OP-Z manual but I think that some of the
functionality of the OP-Z is only accessible if you connect it to an iOS
device, e.g. the two features called Photomatic and Videolab.

PS some recent promotional material by TE said that the OP-Z app is iOS only
"for now", so at least there is hope that it will become available on more
platform.

~~~
rtkwe
Those are both at least 100% ancillary to it's function as a synth and
sequencer and are kind of just fun extras for stuff like live performances.

------
bicepjai
On similar note: I am so addicted to the programmable synthesizer
[http://foxdot.org/](http://foxdot.org/)

~~~
bambax
This looks amazing! How steep would you say is the learning curve? Is it worth
it?

~~~
julian55
Foxdot is based on Python so if you know Python you can get going making beats
pretty quickly. It's great fun to play with but I think it takes time to get
used to thinking of melodies in terms of numbers rather than frets or keys.
I'm now spending some time learning Supercollider which Foxdot uses to make
sounds.

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jacquesm
I played with one of these a month or so ago and will definitely get one for
my more musically oriented child to play around with. They're fun and a
different way at making synthesized sounds, the UI is reminiscent of handheld
game consoles. Beware though, these could very well be a gateway drug to a
house full of gear ;)

~~~
bitL
You can't ever overcome synth GAS... I have a music studio full of latest
greatest toys and it's never enough... Better excise it right in the beginning
or you are lost forever ;-)

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jordache
teenage engineering industrial design > Apple industrial design.

~~~
reitoei
Great... now Apple will buy them, steal their designers and engineers, and run
the place into the ground

~~~
jordache
garage band ver. x with digital version of OP1

Please no!

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woofwoofwoof
Wow, it’s quite expensive, especially in comparison with recent gen of
affordable synths.

~~~
Tepix
Can you point to some affordable recommendable synths?

~~~
Cthulhu_
I've recently played with the Korg Monologue, it's a solid machine, analog
synthesizer and step sequencer, enough standard ports to extend it eventually
- a criticism to the device mentioned in the OP is that it's pretty
nonstandard in a bigger workflow. It's < $300, still not cheap but a pretty
good package overall.

A lower price is the Korg Volca, at $100 - $150 per unit. They're less
versatile though and you'll probably end up having to buy / link up multiple.

Even lower and you're looking at stuff like the Teenage Engineering Pocket
Operator series, single card devices in the $70 range. There's a wide range of
variations, each of which (correct me if I'm wrong) has 16 instruments and a
programmable step sequencer, 16 patterns preloaded. The preloaded patterns
have only 16 steps, but you can program it to have more than that and switch
between patterns every 16 beats. You can link up multiple together as well,
they can synchronize with one another (iirc you have to hook up your phone as
the first step which generates a synchronization signal).

~~~
Bjartr
You don't need a phone, the Pocket Operators have a couple of different sync
modes so that you can have one be the master.

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bitL
How does it compare to Novation Circuit (my favorite travel toy) or Deluge?

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brokenmachine
Looks like a cool product. Couldn't see how much it costs.

Pity it only works with ios. I have one and like a lot of things about
Android, but they really dropped the ball with no low-latency audio support.

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skybrian
I guess I'm not in the target market, but how do you play this musical
instrument? It looks like it doesn't have much in the way of a keyboard?

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rcarmo
The OP-Z is cute, but I’ve been looking for an iOS synth app that comes close
to the OP-1 experience for a long while - in my view, it is a much nicer
synth.

~~~
fab1an
Do take a look at Korg Gadget - it is a tremendous piece of software. VERY
easy to pick up and just jam even with the vanilla synths (Chiang Mai is one
big sweet spot), but really also deep enough to produce pro level tracks. The
additional KORG synths (especially the wave station and ODYSSEi) are high end
emulations and basically indistinguishable from the original hardware.

~~~
hellofunk
I would say indistinguishable is an overstatement.

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th0ma5
That's a good price.

~~~
nkozyra
I'm not convinced, particularly given Teenage Engineering's pricing history.

I root for them, absolutely. But their stuff carries a premium and is
technically limited, generally fulfilling a novelty space.

The big win here is the visual stuff, but again I'm not sure that justifies
the price.

~~~
miloshadzic
I would never call OP-1 limited. I haven't touched the OP-Z but I doubt I'd
think it's "technically limited" as well.

I'd say that the OP-1 is probably one of the better designed musical
instruments in the recent past.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
TE make toys - finely designed and polished toys supported by a finely
designed and polished web site. But still toys.

OP-1 has a lot of options that make you feel like you're making music, when in
fact you're trapped in an endless round of "What happens if I...?" inside the
feature space.

Hence the novelty tag. They're not particularly productive instruments, but
they can be a fun way to pass an hour or two.

A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But the
learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor much
lower.

And then there are the code-based environments like Supercollider, in which
you can implement the OP-1 sequencers and synths with a few lines of code, and
easily create your own variations - but the learning curve for non-coders
might as well be vertical, and it's not shallow even for experienced coders.

~~~
rtkwe
> A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But
> the learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor
> much lower.

I think comparing any physical keyboard synth/sequencer to the full desktop
software is going to make the device look like a toy in comparison. It's
apples and oranges in terms of available power and interface and really
purpose.

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grenoire
Proprietary device with proprietary bindings. I like pocket operators a lot,
but this seems like TE is going the opposite of where I wished they would...

~~~
nikofeyn
what a strange stance. what would you have them do?

and if you want an open source “portable keyboard thing”, then there’s already
the organelle. it is no surprise it isn’t much cheaper and isn’t as well
designed, for both hardware and software.

[https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle](https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle)

~~~
grenoire
An HDMI/USB port, alongside access not simply for Unity but also for raw data
for use with OpenGL and whatnot. It's not an unreasonable request.

~~~
floatingatoll
That is an unreasonable request. It contradicts their modus operandi and
demands the earth, moon, and stars of an off-the-shelf product so that a niche
- game developers - can build profitable tools on top of it while paying them
nothing for the privilege.

~~~
grenoire
Dang, times _sure_ have changed. Back in my good ol' days...

