
Spare a thought for the Western men trapped in Japan - pgalland
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2015/03/23/voices/spare-thought-western-men-trapped-japan#.VR1cv-G8CH4
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pavel_lishin
> _Jim, an American in his late 20s, used to be a very passionate young man.
> He claimed he was a communist — a Stalinist, even. He would engage in
> endless political debates during smoking breaks and drinking sessions. He
> dreamed of graduate school, an academic career and, one day, even leading a
> riot. But instead, he got married to a Japanese girl and already had
> children by the time he graduated. She did not want to leave Japan and
> insisted he earn a stable income, so he ended up teaching English somewhere
> in the sticks, far from any big university. “It is only for the time being,”
> he insists, but it’s difficult to see how he will ever have the money or
> mobility to realize his dreams._

This doesn't seem like something that uniquely happens to western men in
Japan. This seems like the sort of thing that happens to people in
relationships the world over.

~~~
wyager
Yep; if you tie yourself down with children, what do you expect to happen
besides getting yourself stuck?

~~~
Arubis
Potentially: realizing personal fulfillment based on nurturing your own
offspring, and learning new depths to connecting and loving others!

But if you're young and unattached, so much more the reason to travel and fly
and explore. For most people, it's a lot easier to do that before kiddos.

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S4M
> Patrick, a 31-year-old American IT specialist, decided to leave a Japanese
> company he was working for because after all the overtime work he put in, he
> hit the glass ceiling.

Could that be a well known HNer by any chance?

~~~
patio11
The gentleman who provided that quote is not me.

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snorkel
Interesting reading but I had to chuckle at this: "He dreamed of graduate
school, an academic career, and even leading a riot" ... But now .. . "it’s
difficult to see how he will ever have the money or mobility to realize his
dreams" (of leading a riot)

~~~
0xdeadbeefbabe
I also chuckle at the writer who has no imagination. This guy is starting his
own tribe. Is it so difficult to see how a tribe can lead to fulfilled
Stalinist dreams and even riots.

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jimeuxx
> These Western men do not really have to learn the language or try to fit in.
> Their Japanese girlfriends or wives will take care of the majority of things
> for them.

This part is glossed over, but kind of telling. Not learning the language or
trying to assimilate is a choice, and obviously has its disadvantages. When
you make your partner compensate for a lot of those, then it's pretty hard to
sympathise, especially when you add children into the mix.

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restonva
This article does not tell the whole, sad truth about the landmines for
Western men in relationships with Japanese women: 1) lack of full parental
rights for men,[0] 2) potential for false allegations compounded with a very
high conviction rate[1].

[0] [http://www.blacktokyo.com/2013/11/24/divorce-child-
kidnappin...](http://www.blacktokyo.com/2013/11/24/divorce-child-kidnapping-
and-parental-rights-the-fight-continues-for-joint-custody-in-japan/) [1]
[http://www.economist.com/node/17259159](http://www.economist.com/node/17259159)

~~~
mdekkers
> lack of full parental rights for men

Yeah, that's not just Japan. In most countries, even where the law is
"unbiased", courts, social workers, and law enforcement typically takes the
side of the mother. There are many cases in the UK for example where courts
ruled in favor of the dad, but orders are simply not enforced.

I have not been with my kids for birthdays, Christmas or New Years' for 6
years now. Although I have a legal right to see them for these and many other
days, their mother doesn't let them, even though they _really_ want to.

I can go to Court, but even though the Judge is extremely likely to rule in
our favor, My Lawyer tells me there is very little hope in achieving
compliance and enforcement. He advised me to save the money, and pay for their
school instead.

My son will be 16 next year, and will have significantly more freedom in
making his own choices. Just one more year...

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NovaS1X
>Sebastian, a 32-year-old student with several part-time jobs and 12 years of
service in the German armed forces, was dumped by the Japanese girlfriend he
had been seeing for a year because he had 'no future' in Japan, she said.

Just what I need to read as I'm in the happiest relationship of my life with a
Japanese girl.

~~~
cthalupa
Take heart: If you're dating a Japanese girl that wasn't raised in Japan, you
probably have nothing to worry about. If you are, you're still probably okay -
she's already going pretty far outside of the usual "traditional" values.

If you're really that worried, you could just be an adult and talk to her
about your concerns before you take the plunge and get married. You should
probably be doing this anyway - what are your goals and dreams? What do you
expect to change or stay the same after getting married? What are your long
term plans? These sorts of questions should be fully answered by both parties
before you tie the knot.

~~~
NovaS1X
No she's from Japan. True blood through and through. But yes, you're correct,
she's not very traditional. I'm not all that worried; I know things will work
out and if they don't I move on.

We're both young. She's 27, I'm 25. We're both travelers and neither of us
wants to waste the working holiday boat before we're 30. If we're still going
strong at 29-30 then I'll propose. It's not something we're talked about
directly but it's something we both know without words. Her and I both want
the same thing around 30 which is monogamy and kids.

I think I'll be fine. I'm pretty happy and excited for the next few years.

------
spacehome
Cry me a river.

~~~
fallinghawks
I agree. If you get a woman pregnant and marry her, it's called fulfilling
your responsibility as a parent. You don't like it? Don't become a parent in
the first place.

I find it disgusting that the writer would describe the guy's situation as
being "sucked into a trap" (implying Japanese women are just scheming to catch
a man) or that she would be sympathetic to him for being dumped by a
girlfriend who wanted a stable breadwinner for a husband. The writer already
states that "many women drop out of [employment] when they get married and
have children, whether they want to or not," so wanting a husband who can
support them is simply sensible.

~~~
thatswrong0
> I find it disgusting that the writer would describe the guy's situation as
> being "sucked into a trap"

You find it disgusting because you didn't read very carefully. Read it again:

> Japan can be the best place in the world for some, but for others it can be
> a trap. And sometimes I think it’s far easier for Western men to be sucked
> into this trap than women.

Then the author proceeds to list all of the ways in which a foreign man can
become "trapped", from overworking, to hitting a career ceiling, to entering
an unfamiliar relationship:

> Men can be sidelined when it comes to participation in child-rearing and
> other home-related matters, such as controlling the family budget.

to having difficulty finding work, to being harassed, and finally to having
difficulty communicating with coworkers and people and feelings of exclusion.

All of that is the "trap". I read absolutely _no_ such implication that
Japanese women are scheming.

~~~
jaredklewis
It's still ridiculous that they are portrayed as victims while Japan is
portrayed as a "trap."

It's not like these men are refugees from Syria. They chose to come to Japan,
they chose to stay, and the nature of Japanese society has never been a
secret.

Most of their hardships are common sense. Surprise, surprise, career
advancement in Japan often requires fluency in Japanese. And yes, supporting a
family is generally pretty hard if you want to be a full time student.

A subset of foreigners in Japan make it their hobby to explain to why their
lives are tough, but leave out the fact that they chose it.

------
mullen
> He claimed he was a communist — a Stalinist, even. He would engage in
> endless political debates during smoking breaks and drinking sessions. He
> dreamed of graduate school, an academic career and, one day, even leading a
> riot.

I am really glad this guys dream's got crushed by reality. He just sounds like
a horrible person.

~~~
rudolf0
Communist is one thing, but I can't imagine anyone having any sympathy for a
self-identified Stalinist. Would this article have painted him in the same
light if he said "National Socialist" instead of "Stalinist"?

~~~
palmer_eldritch
I would love the irony of a poor national socialist militant being a victim of
discrimination in a foreign country.

------
swatow
I'll save my pity for the tech forums still trapped in Orientalism.

