
Ask YC: Where's the escape hatch? I'd like to leave the US, but to where? - isoadventure
I'm sick of the US. Politics gone mad, an economy driven by greed, police state evidence all around - I'm ready for a change.<p>1) Are there any countries where I can emigrate and start a company? If so, what are some startup hubs around the world?<p>2) What about any countries that are simply looking for high-tech web workers?<p>3) As someone who speaks English and only passable Spanish, how easy would it be to get a job in a non-English-speaking country like Japan? Is English typically spoken in the workplace?
======
brk
The "economy driven by greed" is, in essence, what also makes the US the best
place in the world to start and operate a for-profit business.

Good luck finding another country that is hospitable to a non-citizen starting
a business, presents a ready market (all the Web2.0 stuff aside, it is still
helpful to be close to the majority of your initial user base), has a legal
system that affords you some protection, and lastly - has a tax system that
allows you to actually keep a fair percentage of the money you earn.

I don't really care if you mod me down or not, but your post sounds childish
and naive. You want to "start a company", but you don't even know where in the
world to go, or where English is spoken? Have you done any research at all on
this topic (and I wouldn't count posting a question here and expecting people
to do your homework 'research')?

~~~
isoadventure
Gosh that's negative. I simply haven't yet worked outside the US, and thought
perhaps some countries with national languages other than english might have
english-speaking workplaces. Since News.YC has such an international
following, I figured that others could answer (and they have). Sheesh.

~~~
brk
"I simply haven't yet worked outside the US" is much different than "I'm sick
of the US"

You're asking about leaving the US to supposedly start a company. This is much
different than looking for the change of scenery and experience of exploring a
different country.

You're in the BEST place in the world to start a company. Not recognizing that
fact and wanting to start a company shows, to me, a level of immaturity and
short-sightedness that is somewhat frustrating.

Sorry if you didn't like my post, I write what I feel.

------
mdasen
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but what you're looking for doesn't
exist. The US still has more protections against police interference in
personal life than Europe. Europeans do tend to be more liberal than Americans
and Europeans are more likely to force governments to their will. That is both
good and bad. On the good side, democracy is more fulfilled. On the bad side,
democracy can look like mob rule (especially when it comes to immigration
today). This isn't to defend bad things in the US or make Europe look bad -
more to point out that they're not as far apart as the original premise.

Every place has its faults. For example, Canada tends to be a bastion of
liberalism and multi-culturalism. However, in the province of Ontario,
Catholic denominated schools are public funded while schools of other
religions must be privately funded. That doesn't mean that Ontario is a bad
place to live or that its governors are bad people; it means that every place
has these huge annoying faults that just suck.

So, the question isn't "where is better than America". That's a silly
question. "Where do the annoyances annoy me personally less" is a better
question. Maybe you care about domestic spying, but don't mind the state
funding Catholic schools. Maybe you hate republicans for crying terror all the
time, but don't mind European leaders yelling at immigrants for looking
different. Maybe you hate the greed, but don't mind massive consumerism and
vending machines selling everything everywhere in Japan.

For what it's worth, I'd have to agree with the couple of people that have
mentioned Ireland. It's wealthy, immigrant-friendly, high-tech, with a good
and stable government. It's environmentalist and a tad socialist without being
anti-business. OH, and it's English speaking. The downsides? Well, broadband
is crappy and everything costs a boatload. Police can stop and search without
suspicion (as is the case in most countries); that mostly applies to things
like drunk driving which has a zero-tolerance policy (as in, no driving if
you've had a beer).

You have to figure out what you value - and whether a certain place has it.
The Economist's Quality of Life Index
(<http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/quality_of_life.pdf>) is a good place to
narrow your list and it's important to note that there are only a dozen
countries scoring higher than the US. I'd say, based on who I am, I'd be happy
in half to three-quarters of those. Hope this has provided help.

------
uuilly
Stop reading reddit. Wait a month. See how you feel.

~~~
isoadventure
I don't read reddit, but I do read the news.

I shouldn't have mentioned the politics stuff in my post. That confused the
issue for some. The top reason for me asking is that I'm just ready for a
change. I know every place has its downside, but without ever living anywhere
else - how can I know for certain what is important to me?

~~~
neilk
Well, hang on. The USA is probably the most hospitable environment for
business in the known universe. Not only is it harder to start businesses in
most other countries, but expats face additional restrictions on business
activity in most places. So if you want to start a business, stay in the USA.
If you still want a change, the USA is a very diverse country, you can find
all sorts of cultures just by moving a couple of states in any direction.

Challenges can also be found by giving yourself some handicaps.I knew a guy
who was a moderately successful programmer, who sold all his belongings and
hitchhiked across the USA.

If you want some sort of adventure that will test your sense of yourself, try
someplace very different. India, Africa, China. Best handled with a buddy
traveler, but they are not so hard to find.

Extreme short term, you can try Burning Man, that's on in a month and it will
definitely stretch your imagination.

~~~
davidw
If he really wants a change, going to Europe might be good: way more diverse
than the US in a relatively small space, and relatively "safe" (personal
safety, health care, etc...). Agreed, though: "see something new" is a great
reason to go abroad, but "start a company" is a great reason _not_ to.

------
mechanical_fish
\- uuilly is right: Stop reading the news. It's just making you depressed.

\- The USA has got its problems, but other countries also have their problems.
Half the problems that plague the USA also plague the world. (Example: Our
housing bubble is also, in part, a global housing bubble -- easy credit can
cross national boundaries, and it has!) And many of the problems that are new
to the USA are old news in the rest of the world. (Ask a Londoner about
police-state surveillance. Ask (e.g.) a Brazilian from the slums of Rio about
police violence. Ask a Chinese person about what it's like to live without a
First Amendment... or ask an _old_ Chinese person, or (god help us) a
Cambodian, what "politics gone mad" really looks like.)

\- You need to travel, no question. Just take some long trips. If you put all
your stuff in storage you can spend your rent money in foreign countries for
months at a time.

\- The best place for _you_ to start a company is almost certainly the USA.
You know the language. You know the culture. You've got a lot of contacts. You
have no legal issues.

\- You're a _web worker_. Think about it: Just because your company is in the
USA doesn't mean your _office_ needs to be in the USA. You can have an office
on a beach in Argentina for a month, then have an office in a cafe in Japan
for a month, then have an office in a hostel in Australia for a month. Just
learn the local words for "wifi" and remember: When a customs official asks if
your trip is for pleasure you say _yes_.

~~~
isoadventure
> \- You're a web worker All my adult life I've dreamed about doing this. But
> how many people actually do that? It sounds practical, but in practice,
> there is really no substitute for presence.

~~~
mechanical_fish
Oddly, over half my consulting clients have never met me. Some have never
spoken to me. All of them seem reasonably happy.

------
alaskamiller
Have you personally experience the ill effects of the US or is this just from
reading Reddit all day? I had the same feeling and took time to travel within
the US and disconnect from the Internet.

As for finding another place, there are problems with any other places you
pick. Can you pick up a high-tech job in Japan without knowing Japanese? Not
likely. Japan is also a nifty place to visit but rarely a good place to stay.

Maybe you can run to Canada.

~~~
isoadventure
Do you mean "unplug from reddit" or "unplug from the news"? Because while I
know doing the latter would make me feel a lot better, I wouldn't want to live
in a place where I'd have to do that to feel better.

~~~
alaskamiller
Sometimes you have to realize there are by far worse things out there. Having
been in the military and seen what real fucked-up circumstances are like in
other countries, I much prefer what we have in the States over anything else.

And have you considered that the bickering, the analysis, the corruption, the
this and that is part of the evolution of our republic and culture? That the
introspection is required and Reddit being the lens is only one part of that?
The only other thing that can make you feel better, albeit still hollow, is
voting. Aside from that all you have left is to be personally involved in
politics. I dropped what I was doing and bought a ticket to join the Ron Paul
protest and rally. It made me feel better.

~~~
delackner
To avoid broad generalizations, I will just talk about countries I have
personally visited, in the last 5 years. If you think the rest of the world is
more fucked-up than the US, you are incorrect.

There are much safer and cleaner, less stressful places to live in the world.
A few I have seen with my own eyes are Denmark and Japan. I am sure there are
others.

------
dan-kruchinin
Very naive. Do you know anything about immigration policy in different
countries? Do you really think that foreign governments are waiting you with
open arms? For them you're just useless foreigner if they can't get profit
from you. You _may_ be profitable if 1) Foreign country need high qualified
specialists. If you one of them you could get work permit. 2) You have enough
money to open your own business there. (actually some countries have
"business-based" immigration policy(as Australia for example) and some have
not).

And note, there are not so many "IT-countries" but most of IT companies in
them depend on IT industry in US. So you could lose your money.

~~~
isoadventure
Very negative. Curious as to where you get your expertise. From my (admittedly
limited) research, immigration for skilled workers is easy if not encouraged.
Take for example, NZ, which lists hundreds of "qualified" jobs on their
immigration site that will get you fast-tracked toward 2+ year documents.

~~~
dan-kruchinin
Note, I didn't say that immigration is impossible. All immigrant needs is to
be profitable for the country he wants to move to. If he has really good
skills in a priority area and if purposed country has a lack of qualified
workers in that area, he has a chance to get a work permit. In this case all
depends on his skills. And it's not "pessimistic" point of view, rather it's
realistic.

Actually I don't know much about NZ immigration policy, but in some
countries(CZ for example) you can find a job on the spot, in other
countries(for example in Australia) you have to prove your skills via some
tests and only _after_ you have appropriate number of points you get a work
permit.

~~~
menloparkbum
NZ immigration policy is points based like Australia. There aren't any tests
that I know of except English language tests, which are waived for native
english speakers.

------
gaius
Sweden or Iceland would get my vote. New Zealand is a popular option for
Brits. Ireland I'm not so sure about; their massive economy growth was funded
by EU grants, and now the EU is turning its attention to the former Warsaw
Pact countries. Romania or Estonia would be a good bet. A lot of Western
companies are buying their IT services there now, where you can fly in for a
lunchtime meeting, rather than India. They're stable and everyone speaks
English for business.

The big risk to the Scottish economy is that the SNP finally win Scottish
independence and Westminster cancels the GBP 45Bn (approx USD 100Bn) subsidy
from English taxes. At that point, unless the EU steps in, the Scottish
economy will plummet like a rock.

~~~
rit
Of course, it's also possible that they can replace those with EU grants as
well.

However, looking like continued devolution is much more likely than
independence in the near future. I believe the polls show only about 1 in 3
adults supporting full independence, but most support continued freedom [e.g.
continuing in the vein of having a parliament again].

~~~
gaius
The elephant in the corner is the West Lothian problem.

And over and above that, the Scots have got nowhere to vote. They can't vote
New Labour, they won't vote Tory, the Lib Dems are a joke, the SNP is about
the only way to vote up there right now. If the SNP force the issue, the West
Lothian problem may not be resolved in a way that favours the Scots...

------
JFred
Go for the weather and prices, not the politics. You can live as you want in
the US. Plenty of hippy communes, survivalists, polygamists, vegetarians.

Work in the web, relax in good weather. The best weather in the US is either
in Hawaii or on the coast north of San Diego.

Used to be people who wanted to get away went to the Soviet Union to help
build the freedom of the Workers Paradise. I'd say be careful. It could be a
one-way trip.

Tell us your politics, religion, sexual orientation and age and we can be of
more help. I gather you're looking for a left-wing tech incubator. Don't know
of any, but Israel and Ireland come close.

------
tomh
If you need to pick a country right now, sight unseen, I say Ireland or
Scotland. Probably hard to break in without an EU work permit, but if you are
talented enough or can telecommute, then you might not have such a problem.

I add Scotland because Dundee seems to attract a lot of IT types, we had
dealings with folks in Dundee and they were all whip-smart individuals.

If you want to do a little research before you go, you can pick something a
little neater, like Estonia. Estonia would be choice #1 for me, just because
it's actually a not-bad economy, good ties to the rest of Scandinavia,
orderly/not corrupt, and definitely part of the startup world (Skype and
Kazaa, hello?).

And then you could visit Russia and Ukraine and say hello to a _real_ police
state...

~~~
gaius
Scotland's fairly lenient; I've a Canadian friend whose (IIRC) great-
grandfather was Scottish and he got in with no problems. Not long after that I
signed his citizenship papers.

~~~
garrydanger
Don't the same laws that apply to Scotland also apply to England and Northen
Ireland seeings as they are all states inside of the United Kingdom?

~~~
gaius
I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think Scotland allows more generations
ago than England. But yes, once you're in you can work anywhere in the UK.

------
gm
I moved the f*ck out of the US and set up a business in Mexico. I will not say
what or exactly where, but my quality of life has shot straight up.
Everything's cheaper, the girls are great, no Bush politics, I don't hear
stories of police murde^H^H^H^H^Hacting in self-defense against normal people,
and i'm a de facto super hero here for helping the economy pick up.

Like someone else said: Look at what bothers you, then look for places that
don't have that shit, rather than looking for the perfect place. Every place
has its downside.

NZ seems like good place, so does France (if you want to have a 35 hour work
week). There are lots of options.

~~~
ssanders82
Hey, question for you: can you say approximately where are you in Mexico? I
started looking at the Baja, like Cabo, but got _very_ quickly turned off by
many stories of violence/robberies against Americans.

~~~
gm
A couple hours away from Guadalajara. Look for a city without drug gang
problems.

------
gills
Rather than running away, why don't you try voting or running for a public
office? Do something about your situation, don't try to get others to fix it
for you (and yes, running to some 'better' country is exactly that).

------
helveticaman
Chile, perhaps. Latin America is pretty insulated from the housing bubble,
Chile in particular. It also has these innovative concepts called _capitalism_
and _democracy_. As an entrepreneur, you barely pay taxes. I've met people who
pay whatever you want (because of loopholes) or whatever your con, save VAT,
which is at 18%. You can hire anybody, from anywhere on earth, with minimal
amounts of immigration bullshit [1]. Engineers cost about the same as they do
in India. Weather is as good as SV. On top of that, the elite is largely made
up of engineer entrepreneurs, and they run the place. It more free trade
agreements than any other country, and is the only Western country with a FTA
with China.

However, you're far from big markets, and people are xenophobic, and the
universities are not on a par with Stanford or Harvard. Plus, it's not Silicon
Valley. Starting a company isn't easy, but it is less hard than it is at a lot
of other places. Also, quality is hard to find.

I would never recommend going to another country to start a company because
emigrating is starting from scratch, and you might know less Spanish than you
think. But if you were really set on going somewhere else, and set on going to
Latin America, Santiago's not a bad place to go.

[1] There's a limit: no more than 15% of your employees can be non-Chileans.

See also: <http://apps.ycombinator.com/item?id=243269>

------
__
I'm not sure your strategy is sound. Nonetheless, if you're determined to work
in another country (assuming you're not a citizen), you will quickly run into
legal trouble: in most countries, you need to have some sort of work permit,
which can be difficult or impossible to get.

If any of your ancestors are from Europe, you may be able to claim citizenship
in their country of origin. This is the legal principle of jus sanguinis. The
Wikipedia article on jus sanguinis has a list of countries that have that
style of citizenship law (not all are European).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis>

This is cool, because -- as I understand it -- if you're a citizen of a
European Union member country, you can legally work anywhere else in the EU.
For example, if you can claim Spanish citizenship through your grandfather,
you can go work at a startup in London. (Starting your own company might be a
different matter, though.)

If you're descended from Jews, you may be able to claim Israeli citizenship. I
don't know much about this, but Israel does have a startup scene.

~~~
davidw
Yeah, once you're in the EU, you can go anywhere. I'm married to an Italian
woman (a strategy I can't recommend highly enough:-), and we can move anywhere
within the EU - for instance we're in Austria right now. We're thinking of
going back to the US though, as there are more and better opportunities there,
especially for her.

------
buga
Try Costa Rica. Many big companies outsourcing there, English widely spoken
and many talented and educated employees available.

------
menloparkbum
1) You can emigrate almost anywhere to start a company, if you have half a
million dollars or more, in cash. If you don't have any money, it is hard(er)
to emigrate anywhere in the "first world."

2) Nowhere in particular is facing a shortage of high-tech web workers.

3) It is easy to get a job in Japan if you know someone who can get you a job
in Japan. The hard part is finding the job in the first place. If you don't
already have a connection, your best bet is to already be in Japan, and then
apply somewhere that is known for hiring non-japanese people... like an
investment bank or JENS or Dell. English is not typically spoken in the
workplace in Japan, but in my experience, one out of 30 people spoke decent
english. I wouldn't say Japan is a great place to go if you are simply sick of
the USA. It is fun for 3-6 months. It is very expensive and a "closed
society," so after a while you will get very homesick.

------
andr
The Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany have a lot of English-speaking
workplaces. A lot of web jobs in London. New Zealand has an interesting albeit
small startup scene.

------
mindslight
If you aren't really bothered by the _present_ effects but instead the long
term conditions, then I would suggest moving some assets overseas (foreign
bank accounts or gold), so that you've got resources to flee should the need
arise, but otherwise staying put and pursuing what you'd like.

I see most of what is happening in the US (militarized police/information
privacy/corporate rule) as a greater worldwide trend. Running away from the
leading edge is only going to buy you a little time.

------
aggieben
There is no place in the Western world that doesn't have

(a) politics that are even _more_ mad (b) a worse economy (c) less police
state.

Not reading reddit is probably the best advice you've gotten.

------
briansmith
Never, ever give up your US citizenship. It is one of the most valuable things
in the world, inside or outside the United States. I don't think that will
change for at least 25 years, due to inertia if nothing else.

If you don't speak Japanese then it isn't easy to get a job in Japan. But,
anything is possible. I've talked with many people that moved to Japan and
they often found it to be a cold and isolating place after they outgrew the
"cute American boy" look and role. You can count on doing most stuff in
Japanese in Japan. I have a friend that came to the US and learned a lot of
English, and she works as a liaison between her Japanese coworkers and their
foreign business partners. Other than that kind of job, everything is
Japanese, and Japanese people are much less willing to try to speak to you in
English than the natives of other countries in my experience. Anyway, Speaking
Japanese is not hard but it takes a long time to read and write. If you save
up some money you can take an intensive course for a year and you will be more
than good for getting a job that doesn't require too much reading, assuming
you have a US degree already.

Anyway, you can go anywhere and do anything. But, there are few places in the
world where you can go and do anything easier than you can in the US. When I
left, I thought it was great at first; in the end I was making plans to bring
my new friends back here with me so they would have more opportunities and a
fairer chance at a good life. Becoming a foreigner in another country doesn't
increase your freedom whatsoever; you are staying in their country at their
pleasure, and you have very little leverage in any situation.

Regardless of where you go, it really helps to have a lot of money relative to
those around you. Stick around a little bit and make a nice pile of money to
take with you, if you don't have one already.

------
byrneseyeview
Singapore. Orderly, English-speaking, low taxes, tax breaks for startups (your
corporate income tax on your first $100K/year for your first three years is
zero).

Although if you're worried that the US is a police state, you might not like
it there. It seems to be a country where you're free to do whatever a sensible
adult would do, and you really shouldn't deviate from that norm.

~~~
briansmith
"Although if you're worried that the US is a police state, you might not like
it there." That is putting it mildly. It is _illegal_ to possess chewing gum
there. Vandalism is punishable by torture.

~~~
byrneseyeview
'Punishable by torture' is ridiculous. Caning is rarely used, and I would
probably prefer it to a prison sentence.

But again, this is a matter of preference. If you love being an antisocial
asshole, Singapore will be hell for you until they kick you out (if they let
you in). If you're a responsible adult, you won't notice the laws because they
won't apply to you -- the penalty for vandalism or heroin use or spitting on
the sidewalk is inconsequential to me.

~~~
rms
>'Punishable by torture' is ridiculous. Caning is rarely used,

By any definition, caning is torture. There's no potential ambiguity, unlike
waterboarding. Singapore no longer publishes caning data, but illegal
immigration carries a mandatory sentence of caning and more than 10,000 people
were arrested for that in 2004.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore>

Edit: there is a torture exemption for pain and suffering arising from "lawful
sanctions": perhaps caning is excluded from the definition of torture. I guess
judicial waterboarding would also be legal.
<http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm>

~~~
byrneseyeview
Well, yes. It's a very nice place to live, and part of the reason for that is
how selective they are about who gets to stay there. So I can sympathize with
the idea of really cracking down on illegals.

Anyway, compare it to prison: caning probably hurts a whole lot, and might
take weeks to heal. And then it's over. Prison hurts less, but takes years --
during which the prisoner is subsidized by the taxpayers. If the US introduced
caning as a prison alternative (for first-time offenders, at least) it would
probably make the country a much nicer place to live.

------
patrocles
John Walker from AutoCad chose Switzerland
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_%28programmer%29>

Any other famous ex-pats? I figure that if immigration doesn't go up, taxes
will (or services go to hell)... and that will lead to more ex-pats.

------
alanmccann
So sorry - but everywhere else is downhill on all aspects that bother you
about the US.

Greed- just expresses itself through different channels Police state - give me
a break Politics gone mad - freedom has its price

Unfortunately, as much as it sucks, it is better than every other alternative.

------
ibsulon
If only Toronto wasn't so cold...

~~~
mrtron
Motivation to stay indoors 6 months of the year?

As long as you don't really hate the cold - and enjoy winter sports, the
winter is bearable. (yes, that was for laughs, and yes I just thought it up
now)

It does make it harder to get focussed right now when the weather is
delightful.

------
Tichy
Welcome to the human condition.

------
czcar
Try New Zealand, starting a business takes 5 minutes and $160, and it has to
be done online. We also have a growing population of startups in Auckland and
Wellington.

www.nzte.govt.nz www.med.govt.nz

------
ambition
Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto have reasonable startup scenes.

~~~
modoc
Vancouver is a beautiful city. I love it there.

------
rms
I always hear good things about Argentina/Buenos Aires; if you speak passable
Spanish you'll be up to fluent in a year of immersion.

------
noodle
if i were you i'd do more research on what countries are open to people in
your situation. there aren't really that many countries where you can just
walk in and get a work visa or citizenship. some specific examples are japan
and italy. if you want to live/work there, you're going to need to know some
of the language and a minor mirale.

------
bluelu
If you are good and bring in capital, I think probably every country will give
you a working permit. Just remember that as US citizen you will always to have
to pay taxes in the US even if you work outside the US. (in addition to the
taxes you pay in the country you are working in) :)

~~~
ninguem1
A lot of countries have tax treaties with the US. So you can deduct the taxes
you pay in that country from your US tax. You don't get double taxed. Of
course, if you go to a place with very little taxes, you don't get to enjoy
that.

~~~
bluelu
Thanks for clarifying. I actually heard that you would get double taxed, but
this was probably wrong.

------
oxo
As I understand it there is a 30% tax on worldwide possessions to surrender a
US passport. Apparently the Russians used to do it to Jews as they fled the
border but since the cold war ended theres no reason not to copy it.

------
mrtron
Get some contract work within the US, and be making a good American salary
while travelling/working. Don't take too much work on so you can relax.

It is something I have considered.

------
nraynaud
good idea I think. I'd say north Europe. Or maybe trying a country in Latin
America, to get out of beaten paths.

While being abroard, people tends to loose interest in politics : they're not
concerned by home politics, and they're not citizens of their hosting country.
Maybe it's not true for americans since even their internal affairs are
covered worldwide.

------
urlwolf
I say Berlin. Not the rest of Germany, though.

------
thomatas
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

~~~
volida
what if the problem is the solution?

------
adrianwaj
Try Bahamas or Hawaii, at least the weather will be good.

~~~
rit
... Except for the fact that Hawaii is in the US.

~~~
adrianwaj
at least the weather will be good.

------
flashgordon
well i am going to india in september for 3 weeks to check out the startup
scene!!

gimme a buzz if are considering India :D:D

------
rob
South Africa.

------
timcederman
Australia

~~~
wrigley
I am quite surprised by this post and the majority of recommendations. I
currently run a startup in the UK, the scene is quite frankly awful, staffing
costs in the UK are possibly the highest around.

You need to ask yourself if your possible employees can count leading
web/software firms in their CV as more than likely in the US, no is the
answer.

We have had extremely bad experiences with UK firms and now outsource all our
IT projects via Guru/elance to Eastern European countries like Slovenia and
further afield to Kenya (fast becoming a call centre and data alternative to
India) and India.itself. The UK currently is in a financial crisis, we are
experiencing a hard knock on from the US housing crisis and our inflation is
currently at around 3.8% which is well above average. Additionally you will
find it shocking to note the Petrol prices here are near on the highest in the
world - approx £5.42 per gallon at the moment (approx $11) an earlier comment
about EU countries is very viable and moving around between countries is
relatively easy within the EU.

From a startup scene perspective there are little in the way of the numerous
startup meets and socials I see startups being able to attend in San
Fransisco. There just isnt a central hub as you have in the US for technology
yet, maybe in 10 years there will be but for now its diluted.

Personally I know of the beauty and appeal of New Zealand and understand the
benefits but for the pure weather, excellent salaries and quality of life
Australia would be my preferred choice. Suffice to say I have been looking at
moving to the US for the reason of the benefits it would bring a new startup
and the networking facilities. The Venture Capital reach alone is staggering.

Hope this helps. Additionally to note, setting up a company in the UK will
require a UK bank account which in turn requires a permanant address and
credit checks etc.

------
Allocator2008
"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. It captures the essence of the
evolutionary spirit."

\- Gordon Gekko

~~~
gaius
"... and greed will not only save Teldar Paper but that other malfunctioning
corporation, the United States of America"

------
mick_m
[http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/24/75-threatening-
to...](http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/24/75-threatening-to-move-to-
canada/)

