

Things about the Mac that annoy new users from PC-land - sendos
http://www.startuptrekking.com/2010/09/things-pc-users-should-know-before.html

======
martythemaniak
I don't think I'll ever adjust to how terrible window management is in OS X.

\- one menu bar for active applications: if you have many windows/applications
open side-by-side you can't access (or even see) their menus until you switch
to them. It's bad on a MacBook, I can't image the pain it is on a 27" or 30".
If you're using Adium on a 30" monitor and you have it in the lower right-hand
corner, the app's menu is 2 freaking feet away from the app!

-cmd+tab switches apps, not windows. you have to either use expose (slow) or cmd+tab, cmd+~. Minimized windows also don't cycle, so you can alt-tab to an app and still not get any windows, just the menu bar. Getting to a particular window shouldn't be so damned hard.

The windows/linux way - where each window is independent, equal and self-
contained is much better IMO.

~~~
bradleyland
Emphasis on the IMO. The experience is unique for every individual.

I switched to a Mac about four years ago, and I can't stand task switching in
Windows/GNOME/KDE.

\- Menu location: Having the menu at the top of the screen actually makes it
easier/quicker to click (see Fitts' Law).

\- Context switching: Context switching on OS X has more granularity. The up-
sides of this are similar to the up-sides of tabbed browsing. Think about it
for a moment. What's so great about tabbed-browsing? You can group windows and
switch between tabs with ctrl-tab. On OS X, you have even more granularity:

App switching: cmd+tab

Window switching: cmd+~

Tab switching: app-context dependent cmd+<shift/opt>+arrow or ctrl+tab

My biggest complaint is that there is no consistency to the tab switching
shortcut.

When trying to find a window in an environment where there are lots of
windows, Expose is one of the rare times I find the mouse faster than the
keyboard. I have key bindings for app and system-wide Expose, so depending
upon my needs, I'll switch to the app containing the document and app-Expose,
or I'll just use system-wide Expose.

It's more complicated, but when I use my computer, I feel like I'm playing an
instrument. My muscles know where to go for any given task, and I can move
around very quickly.

Much better, IMO.

~~~
sendos
_Menu location: Having the menu at the top of the screen actually makes it
easier/quicker to click (see Fitts' Law)_

While I see that this is true for smaller monitors, it becomes less true with
today's large monitors. When I have a small window on the lower-right part of
my large monitor, it becomes a hassle to move the mouse all the way over to
the top-left of the screen, select my menu item, and then move it all the way
back to the lower-right of the screen to continue working on what I was
working on.

~~~
bradleyland
A note on tone: I don't mean for this to be a tit-for-tat. Just sharing things
that work for me, so hopefully they'll benefit you :)

I work on a 24" display running at 1920 x 1200, so I've definitely experienced
that long run to the menu bar. This is compounded by the fact that "Maximum"
mouse speed on a Mac is a snail's pace compared to what I used to use on a PC.
I grabbed a little utility called MagicPrefs to fix that issue:

<http://magicprefs.com/>

Outside of that, I've always been a keyboard junkie. There isn't much you
can't do from the keyboard in OS X, and if you discover something you can't OS
X has really robust Keyboard Shortcut customization. You can literally create
or re-map any shortcut in any application from System Preferences > Keyboard >
Keyboard Shortcuts.

Lifehacker article on that subject: <http://bit.ly/11Z2c6>

If I use a menu item more than once or twice a day, I memorize or create a
shortcut for it.

------
bradleyland
Cmd+delete is not the equivalent of shift+delete on Windows. On Windows, that
key combination permanently deletes an item. In OS X, this key combination
moves the item to the trash.

This seems like a silly gripe. The cmd+delete sequence is operable with a
single hand. In Windows, the operation requires either the use of the
keyboard, then the mouse, or two keyboard operations:

delete, click yes

or

delete, enter

Both serve the purpose of preventing you from accidentally deleting the file.
In OS X, this is accomplished by requiring a key combination, rather than a
single key.

Based on the authors perspective, anything that is different is "annoying".

~~~
gaiusparx
> Based on the authors perspective, anything that is different is "annoying".

Agreed. It would be silly if Mac OS X allows you to configure it to behave
like Windows.

I think cmd+delete is a better design than just delete key to delete. It makes
you more aware of your delete action.

------
slammdunc23
I might be misunderstanding this complaint--

The way Finder is designed, you often can't simply drag some files from one
location to another (e.g. moving to the subdirectory of another directory).
You need two Finder windows open in order to accomplish this, whereas Windows
Explorer, whose left pane has the directory structure and right pane has the
contents of the currently selected directory, lets you do this effortlessly
using only one window.

\--but I think that it is possible to do this on a Mac by opening Finder,
clicking to the file you want to move, and then making sure that the third of
the four display modes available (it looks like three vertical bars) is
chosen. (These icons are right of the forward/backward buttons on the left of
a Finder window.) This changes the display to a directory mode and allows you
to drag and drop files from any subfolder to any other. Hovering over a
folder's name while dragging a file will open that folder in the rightmost
column and allow you to move the file to any subfolder.

------
adolph
_The way Finder is designed, you often can't simply drag some files from one
location to another (e.g. moving to the subdirectory of another directory)_

There are some things that are just different. The folder tree in an exploring
window is a semi-separate display from the objects within the current
directory. There isn't a direct Mac OS X equivalent, but the same use is
supported with one window using "spring-loaded folders." Dragging a file over
the icons in the left-hand toolbar temporarily opens them and you can open any
sub-directory by hovering similarly.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finder_(software)>

~~~
elblanco
This is one of the few interface niceties I miss when I go from OSX to
Windows.

The action of springing through a file structure while holding onto a bunch of
stuff is really great.

------
jcl
I've recently started using a Mac laptop, and one thing that I've found
frustrating is how much harder it is to access menu items from the keyboard.

In Windows, you can just press the alt key -- either one, and you don't even
need to release it -- and then each menu/item is (usually) a single keystroke.
For instance, alt-e-a-s is firmly in my muscle memory... a quick four-key
sequence on the right hand to activate Photoshop's Edit | Transform | Scale
menu item. There's probably about a dozen menu items in Photoshop that I
access regularly this way.

These keystroke combos are sometimes even easier than the menu item's hot
keys; for example, I find alt-f-x (File | Exit) a less-contorting sequence to
hit with one hand than alt-F4, the standard application-closing shortcut.

On the Mac laptop, by default you need to hit Ctrl-Fn-F2 to access the menus
by keyboard -- an awkward three-key combination that takes two hands, and
moves at least one hand off the home row. And from there the navigation is
lexographic, which means multiple keystrokes per navigation step.

Does anyone know if there is a better way to navigate via keyboard that I'm
missing?

~~~
kranner
I can hit Ctrl-Fn-F2 with one hand, using the thumb to cover Ctrl and Fn, and
the index finger to reach F2. Just a suggestion.

------
riobard
The biggest thing I still cannot get over with in OS X:

THERE IS NO CUT!!!

If you want to move a file to somewhere else, you have to either copy&paste,
or use mouse to drag (which sometimes is really difficult if the two locations
are not reachable in one window/screen).

~~~
SnowLprd
Two solutions:

1\. Spring-loaded folders. Drag the item to the left-hand pane (e.g., Places >
Home) and hover over your home folder. After a moment, the folder will pop
open. Continue this until you find where you want the file to go.

2\. Use Path Finder (<http://www.cocoatech.com/>) and drag the item to the
Drop Stack. Navigate where you want the file to go, and then drag the item
from the Drop Stack.

------
generalk
Good list. Some of it's true, although I now cannot live in Windows because of
the same keyboard issues: I'm so used to Control+A and E for home/end that I
don't know what to do without it.

Here's some awesome things that make up for the switch:

* If you have a File dialog open (file upload to a website, open file in any application, etc.) you can drag a file icon into it. The dialog will switch to the folder that file lives in, and highlight it.

* The little File icon at the top of file windows (say, TextEdit)? Those are so-called "proxy" file icons. Take that icon and drag it to an email to attach it, to the desktop to copy/move it, etc. Or drag it into a File dialog as described above!

* Command+Space opens Spotlight. Launch programs, search for documents, or do simple calculations. (quick, what's 2567/180 ?)

* Easily rebind your Caps Lock key to something useful from the Keyboard System Preferences pane. Lots of old UNIX geeks like to make it Control. It makes the Control+A/E _exceedingly_ easy.

* Growl. It's not a Mac OS X builtin, but it's a must-install. I describe it to PC users this way: "Those little popups that Outlook does when you get new mail? Growl is a system-wide service that gives those to any application that wants them.

Those are the easy ones I can think of off the top of my head. After the
initial transition period was over, I found I couldn't go back to using
Windows.

~~~
elblanco
> Growl. It's not a Mac OS X builtin, but it's a must-install. I describe it
> to PC users this way: "Those little popups that Outlook does when you get
> new mail? Growl is a system-wide service that gives those to any application
> that wants them.

I wish Apple would just buy Growl or something and just build it in, the lack
of a notification system in a modern OS was bizarre to me when I first
realized it was missing. It's something that's missing in both OSX and iOS.

------
warfangle
Biggest gripe about OSX window management is that you can only resize a window
if you can grab the lower right hand corner. If, for some reason, a window
opens that is taller than you screen resolution, it is impossible to resize
it.

------
makeramen
i find many of these to be features of Mac that are painfully missing on
windows, especially:

* enter to rename files, best keyboard shortcut ever. someone please enlighten me on an easy way to rename in windows.

* closing last window doesn't quit application. the decluttering effect of this is amazing.

* if i press a modifier key and delete, i'm pretty positive that i want to delete something, no need to confirm. that's what the trash can is for. add shift and i empty the trash.

* windows NEEDs maximize designed the way it is because all those fancy borders and menus are so full of CLUTTER. macs are more true to the "windows" philosophy, windows should be called "screens" from how i've seen people abuse maximize.

* as a follow up, people maximize on windows in order for the menus to comply with Fitt's Law. as noted, not necessary on mac.

I do agree with finder being finicky though, but again, macs work well with
multiple windows.

~~~
elblanco
* enter to rename files, best keyboard shortcut ever. someone please enlighten me on an easy way to rename in windows. *

F2. It's the universal rename key in almost every renamable control in the OS.
You can also do two slow clicks. But the timing is fidgety. You can also right
click and rename in most context windows in most pieces of software that have
a renamable control.

* closing last window doesn't quit application. the decluttering effect of this is amazing. *

How precisely is leaving stuff around you aren't going to use decluttering?

* windows NEEDs maximize designed the way it is because all those fancy borders and menus are so full of CLUTTER. macs are more true to the "windows" philosophy, windows should be called "screens" from how i've seen people abuse maximize. *

Ugh, the visual cacophony going on the background behind my applications in
OSX are so f-ing distracting, I spend most of my time on a Mac moving the damn
windows around and individually minimizing them so I don't have to look at
them all the time. I really really really don't need to see the last 4 photos
I opened up in Photoshop, a terminal window and browser and whatever other
random stuff I happened to have opened over the last 6 hours sitting around in
my visual field in the background while I do something else. Really, I don't.
There are _times_ when having more than one thing on the screen in different
applications is useful. But 90% of the time it's a visual distraction that
breaks focus.

I always find this counter argument amazing coming from a community that made
worshiping full screen minimalist text editors an art form.
<http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom>

Doesn't _anybody_ in OSX user-land want to read a document or write music in
full screen so they can focus on it? Or is that only for writing (it's clearly
not for any other kind of production work)?

Gah!

* as a follow up, people maximize on windows in order for the menus to comply with Fitt's Law. as noted, not necessary on mac. *

No they don't. They maximize the windows so they can focus on the thing their
actually working on instead of the visual field garbage cluttering up their
peripheral vision.

Side rant: I wish beyond _all that's holy_ that OSX users would stop excusing
the obviously bad OSX menu bar design by bringing up Fitt's law when that's
pretty much the only place in the entire OS that concept is followed. Pick an
application, ANY application, and they jam all kinds of controls all over the
screen. Web browsers don't just line up links along the edges of the screen,
they embed them all over the screen, Photoshop's toolkit isn't jammed against
the side of the screen, it's a floating window, iPhoto doesn't just give you a
linear list of photos along the bottom of the screen, iTunes playback controls
aren't lined up directly along the bottom, Safari has almost no major control
surfaces on the edges of the screen...etc. etc. _etc._

If you rely on Fitt's law to save a novice mouse user from OSX's incredibly
bad (and non-configurable) mouse acceleration curve, you'll be very sad. For
all of the gods sakes (past and present), stop bringing up the example of the
one singular interface component in the entire OS that happens to adhere to
Fitt's law _if nothing else in the operating system follows it_. (btw, all
those windows floating around that you can't maximize in OSX? yeah. those
don't follow Fitt's law of an infinite mouse target either by definition)

Gah!

~~~
qwzybug
_Ugh, the visual cacophony going on the background behind my applications in
OSX are so f-ing distracting, I spend most of my time on a Mac moving the damn
windows around and individually minimizing them so I don't have to look at
them all the time._

Command-option-H. You'll like it.

I like the deemphasis on full-screen windows in Mac OS; one of the biggest
losses in OSX UIs of the last decade is that they've moved from the
exceedingly customizable palette-style UI (see ircle, for example—an IRC
client with the entry box in a different window from the chat log!) to the
iTunes-inspired, all-features-in-one-window style.

The ability to use the windowing system to split your focus between different
documents and apps for the same task (instead of maximizing every damn thing,
like most Windows users I know) was powerful; the current approach reeks of
MDI. (As does Adobe CS5—git yer damn tabs outta my Photoshop, Adobe.)

PS - Personally, I can't stand the mouse acceleration curves on Windows. "In
matters of taste, there can be no dispute."

~~~
elblanco
Ircle - Gah! That's like everything that was ever wrong with GUI design.
Disconnected windows implies disconnected functionality, overly complex
design, buttons . There's no indicator that the input area has anything to do
with the chat log. I can see why the interface styles are moving _away_ from
that type of design. IRC is supposed to be _simple_ Ircle makes it look like
I'm piloting a nuclear sub and a squadron of UAVs at the same time. I know
it's old, so it gets a free pass for not being up to date on UI design. But
the thing I find hard to believe about Ircle is that it lives on Macs -- the
holy sanctuary from bad UI design. (and I'd like to point out how very few
controls they jam into the menu bar at top, Ircle is a perfect example of
Fitt's law in non-use).

CS5 - Tabs can be a powerful thing when done right, CS5 does not do them
right. I strongly dislike Photoshop's tab implementation. Though I'd never in
a million years hold up Photoshop (with its aging wretched evolutionary
interface cruft) as an example for people to follow in UI design.

Maximize - I've known many people who use the exact phrase "maximize every
damn thing" when referring to people's desire to maximize windows to focus on
one thing at a time. I've actually sat down with them to discuss their UI
behavior and observe how they use their smaller non-maximized windows. What I
discovered was fascinating. Instead of focusing on one particular thing at a
time, and moving their mouse around inside screen sized real-estate, with
nothing else cluttering up their visual field, they _focused on one particular
thing at a time_ except they had a much smaller area to work in, things became
cluttered and they often got distracted or confused by non-relevant stuff in
the background. They spent inordinate amount of time moving windows around to
get them positioned well to not be distracting or so they could see them all
well (as if the other document they were writing was going to suddenly change
state without their notice and they wanted to see that happen - yes this was
how it was described exactly to me), and fiddling with toolbars so they were
"just so". If I didn't know better, I'd classify most of the behaviors as OCD
type worry twitches. The real problem is that if you want to maximize and
focus on a Mac, you simply can't. Whereas on Windows or many Linuxes, I can
choose either method of operation -- like if I writing some code and have a
separate app up logging network activity or something, I can do that. But if
I'm having a particularly bad time killing a bug, I simply can't maximize and
get _everything_ else out of the way.

There is a built in efficiency in killing off tasks serially that you
sometimes can't get when operating in parallel.

Thanks for the command-option-h tip.

~~~
qwzybug
I hate multitasking as much as the next guy (more probably), so I definitely
empathize with your thoughts on maximization. (It's also interesting to note
that the iOS, Apple's Next Big UI Thing, has no concept of windows at all.)

However, I still think the multiple-window model is powerful when single-
tasking with multiple tools. In XCode, for example, I always run in the
"Condensed" layout; the file list is in one window, the editor is another, as
are docs, the console, the debugging HUD, etc. It lets me put things where I
want them to be: console and debugger on the second monitor, documentation
side-by-side with the editor, etc. And I can scootch them around to make room
to see a terminal window, or IRC in a dev chat, or whatever.

It means I do spend a little more time on the resize handle than I would
hitting a mythical Mac "maximize" button, but trying to use single-window IDEs
feels like walking in mud in comparison. (I'm looking at you, XCode 4.)

I tend to use Spaces to focus on tasks. One neat trick: you can manage windows
from the Spaces zoomed-out view. Drag your IDE or text editor to another
space, or shift-drag to grab all an app's windows at once. You can even engage
Expose in Spaces and drag windows from that view. I never find myself wanting
a window filling the screen, especially with modern resolutions.

Point taken on ircle. I'm just nostalgic.

~~~
elblanco
> However, I still think the multiple-window model is powerful when single-
> tasking with multiple tools.

Oh most definitely. Having multiple tools available all at once (particularly
monitoring tools) is really powerful and can shorten up certain work cycles
immensely.

One area where I can definitely see the maximize window concept of Windows
falling down is the huge screen real estate available on some monitors. I
don't have a problem with it on a 22" monitor, but say...a 32" that may end up
just being too big. I can't keep the entire screen in my visual field anyway.

Ircle: I know, old software, even with warts, can sometimes still feel best.
Like an old pair of shoes.

------
chaosmachine
I don't miss pgup/pgdn so much, due to the excellent scrollabiity of the
trackpad.

The big one for me was no home/end keys (unless you buy the extended keyboard,
and even then they don't work in some applications). I ended up remapping
"right command" to home and "right option" to end.

~~~
DougBTX
Still not a single key, but the emacs style shortcuts work in most inputs:
Control+E and Control+A. Especially fine if you have CapsLock remapped to
Control.

~~~
sendos
If you just map the CapsLock key to Control, that means that in regular Mac
apps you need to type things like Command-C and Command-V, which is not as
convenient as CapsLock-C and CapsLock-V.

So, I have CapsLock mapped to Command (so that CapsLock-C and CapsLock-V are
copy and paste, for example, in Mac apps) and to make sure I'm happy in emacs,
I have the following in my .emacs

    
    
      (setq mac-command-modifier 'control) 
    

which means, I can type all control-using commands (like C-x C-f, C-g, etc) by
using the CapsLock button.

~~~
SnowLprd
I'm not sure what your keyboard looks like, but on my keyboard the Cmd-C and
Cmd-V key combinations are far, far closer together (and thus more convenient)
than the CapsLock-C and CapsLock-V combinations you suggest.

~~~
DougBTX
On my keyboard, the command keys are right next to the space bar, one at each
end. Initially, they were quite hard to press, but I've since learnt to use my
thumbs to hold them down, and it's working out fine. (I also have Control
mapped to Command, and CapsLock mapped to Control, but I rarely press the
Control key.)

------
djhworld
I think the biggest crime of them all is how there is no where on the keyboard
that displays the # symbol, which is commonplace on most standard PC
keyboards.

To get the symbol to appear you need to hit alt+3. I only found this after a
quick journey to google.

~~~
lallysingh
What language are you in?

The US-english one is shift-3:

[http://images.apple.com/macbookpro/images/overview-
gallery2-...](http://images.apple.com/macbookpro/images/overview-
gallery2-20090828.png)

~~~
barrkel
Judging by his profile (UK), Shift-3 for him is probably Pound. Unfortunately,
that means something different in the UK than it does in the US, though for
reasons not unrelated. UK keyboards have a separate key for #.

~~~
djhworld
Ah I didn't realise it was region specific. Yeah the alternative item
underneath the 3 button is the symbol for pound sterling (£), the # symbol is
a hidden extra.

------
yayitswei
A lot of the Finder annoyances that he points out were alleviated for me when
I started using QuickSilver.app. IMO it's a great utility for file management,
launching programs, etc.

------
elblanco
Oh my...this is just the preamble from my own list. I just never understand
some of the age old interface issues that still linger on in OSX...small
things that a bit of attention to detail would resolve in a patch release.
Ugh. So pretty, such a PIA to use.

~~~
SnowLprd
While we're on the topic of attention to detail, the name of the operating
system is "OS X" -- not "OSX".

~~~
elblanco
Actually, it's "Mac OS X".

~~~
SnowLprd
You're missing the point. The full name of the operating system (Mac OS X) is
often shortened to "OS X", whereas OSX is just plain wrong.

~~~
elblanco
You're cute. It's also commonly shortened to "Mac OS" and "MacOS".

Extant examples of "OSX" (sometimes mixed with OS X)

    
    
      http://osx.hyperjeff.net/
      http://code.google.com/p/git-osx-installer/
      http://www.mono-project.com/Mono:OSX
      http://mplayerosx.sttz.ch/
      http://mac.rhino3d.com/
      http://web.mac.com/npirzkal/Scisoft/Scisoft.html
      http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/keyboards/mackey.html
      http://rubyosx.rubyforge.org/
      http://help.github.com/mac-git-installation/
      http://maketecheasier.com/turn-your-ubuntu-hardy-to-mac-osx-leopard/2008/07/23
      http://wiki.winehq.org/MacOSX
      http://gimp.lisanet.de/Website/Download.html
    

Would you like more?

Hmm...I wonder if there's any examples like this from Apple?

    
    
      http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/osximageresizer.html
      http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/blogs_forums/osxtutorials.html
      http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/email_chat/mdemailhostingosx.html
      http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/wifi-touchpad-for-windows/id291212802?mt=8

(actually Google reports over a million and a half pages with instances of
"OSX" used on pages hosted from *.apple.com)

Please know what you are talking about before you bring proscriptive snark to
HN in the future please.

~~~
SnowLprd
Nice try, no cigar. Please provide specific examples where _Apple_ has spelled
it OSX -- not some random shmoes who have also gotten it wrong.

~~~
elblanco
From the first link:

 _OSX Image Resizer 0.9.2

About OSX Image Resizer Performs one simple task in a fast and easy to use
way; resizing a large number of images quickly on your computer. The software
allows you to resize a collection of images (from 10 to 10,000+) so that they
are all resized to a specific width or height while maintaining their original
aspect ratio. You can also resize your images so that they all fit within a
specific sized box (useful for resizing images for eBay for instance).

OSX Image Resizer will open the following file formats; JPEG, GIF, PNG, TIFF,
TGA. The current version saves files in the following formats; JPEG or PNG-24.
Saving your files as JPEGs allows you to resize your photo collection for
archiving or emailing to family. Saving your files as 24-Bit PNGs maintains
full alpha channel support so that you can resize icon-sets or buttons for
your website without losing transparent or semi-transparent backgrounds._

Flagged.

~~~
SnowLprd
Flagged for what? For actually having some common sense?

The link you cite is a piece of freeware written by John Wordsworth. It's
written right there on the page. I asked, very clearly, whether you can
produce an instance where Apple themselves have referred to their own
operating system as OSX. You have not done produced a single such instance.

I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp, nor is it clear why you
seem so upset about it.

