

The Mac App Store, it'a awesome, and you guys are missing why. - joelesler
http://blog.joelesler.net/2010/10/the-mac-app-store-why-its-awesome.html

======
logic
My predictions on how this is going to go:

\- A few major developers will get on board with this, and publish their
mainstream titles via the App Store. This will lend credibility.

\- Indie developers will jump on next, seeing another low-friction
distribution medium that gives them more eyeballs (at least at first) than
they were previously getting.

\- Enter the "fart apps", ie. low-value applications that do one thing
(poorly), but only cost $0.99 or are free, providing downward pricing pressure
for everyone else in the App Store.

\- Another OSX release comes and goes, this time with warnings to users
whenever they install "unsigned" applications. Developers are encouraged to
get Apple to sign their apps prior to shipping, even if they're a boxed app on
the shelf, to prevent the user from seeing the big scary warning.
Conveniently, this is a very similar process to submitting an app to the App
Store; App Store distribution increases.

\- A few more OSX releases ensue, Apple stops signing applications that aren't
also distributed via the App Store. Distribution of software outside of the
App Store (boxed software, online direct-to-user, competing digital
distribution like Steam) begins to wither on MacOS.

I'd hope it goes without saying that I'd like to be proven wrong about the
above.

~~~
swombat
_Enter the "fart apps", ie. low-value applications that do one thing (poorly),
but only cost $0.99 or are free, providing downward pricing pressure for
everyone else in the App Store._

Unlikely. A fart app has comic value on a phone because you can pull it out at
the bar and use it to show off your iPhone while you're drunk. The comic value
is seductive enough while drunk that your friends might buy it too, hence
perpetuating the plague.

I'm not sure how laptop or desktop based fart apps would propagate, however.
Would you download, even for free, a application that produces fart noises on
your laptop? Dubious.

The rest of your scenario doesn't worry me so much. What does worry me is if
they build hooks into the OS so that signed apps distributed through the app-
store have greater privileges (e.g. with respect to playing DVDs) than other
apps. This would finally be a way in for the so-called "Trusted Computing"
initiative which would lock down your own machine against you (unless you
jailbreak your mac, which seems just wrong).

Even with that, people will still find ways around it, but given that Apple
did at some point agree to implement DRM restrictions on music files
distributed through iTunes I suspect they'd also implement Trusted Computing
with a bit of arm twisting from the MPAA. That would suck a whole lot more
than the tragic disappearance of boxed software (good riddance).

~~~
bonzoesc
> The rest of your scenario doesn't worry me so much. What does worry me is if
> they build hooks into the OS so that signed apps distributed through the
> app-store have greater privileges (e.g. with respect to playing DVDs) than
> other apps.

They're flat out saying the opposite; that Mac App Store applications will be
pretty much limited to unprivileged user stuff (the overwhelming majority of
what I do).

------
jlongster
Saying that Apple has completely stopped piracy is a bold statement. Hackers
will always ways to crack systems, and I don't want to say it'll never happen,
but I doubt we will find a completely impenetrable security system for
software.

Somehow hackers are pirating iPhone apps right now (you can find pirated apps
for free to install on jailbroken iphones). I don't know how they are doing
it, but if the Mac App Store will work the same way, they've already solved
it.

This is all such a distraction from what we all should really be working on:
enhancing the web to become the desktop. I really hope the Mac App Store does
not take off, as it is a setback for the web to revolutionize desktops.

~~~
swombat
Actually, the Mac app store could turn that trend on its head.

There are several main attractions of web apps over desktop apps:

* Easier to update/prototype/iterate/etc

* Cross-platform by nature unless you do something stupid

* Easier to charge (piracy is pretty much impossible)

The Mac App Store solves at least the last one. For quite a few developers,
that may be enough to make the Mac market more appealing than the web market,
which also has its share of disadvantages, such as the difficulty of creating
a really great user experience, cross-browser issues, limitations of
javascript and browser and the like, hosting costs, and so on.

~~~
jlongster
Yes, there are advantages to native apps, and Apple has made sure to make them
sexy and attractive.

But I don't want them to be sexy. I want the web to be sexy. And it can
happen. The disadvantages of web development are shrinking quickly as
javascript is getting incredible attention and browsers are converging on
standards. And the web has the greatest benefit of all: no proprietary-ness,
no walled gardens. I know that's overused, but it's very true.

~~~
orangecat
_And the web has the greatest benefit of all: no proprietary-ness, no walled
gardens._

Web apps typically end up storing all your data on somebody else's system, and
they can limit or revoke your access at any time. I don't see how that's less
proprietary than local apps.

~~~
jlongster
There's a difference between data and software. Free software important. Free
data is important, too, but local/remote storage is a different issue than
proprietary/cross-platform software.

------
smackfu
"Apple. Just figured out a way. To stop. Software piracy."

Counterpoint: Now pirates just need to break one DRM system, and you as
developer have no way of fighting back.

~~~
bonzoesc
Counter-counter point: We will make buying legit software so easy only broke
college kids will bother pirating.

~~~
rewind
I don't think people pirate software because it's hard to pay for it and
install it. I think they pirate it because they don't want to pay for it.
Ninety-nine cent songs are one thing; $99 apps are something else entirely.

~~~
bonzoesc
At least with games, I've seen a lot of buzz about Steam (the games-only
predecessor to Apple's App Store) fighting piracy just by virtue of being
easier (especially for agoraphobic/shut-in gamers) than going to the store,
working better than vendor-specific online stores, less terrible than disc-
based DRM, and less onerous than the hassle of piracy and cracking.

------
dagw
_Apple. Just figured out a way. To stop. Software piracy._

I'm pretty sure it's possible to pirate Steam games. I know it is possible to
pirate iPhone apps. I wonder what makes this blogger thinks Apple will to
better than with this app store.

~~~
moxiemk1
Though you might be able to pirate Steam games, you can't play online, which
is the major draw for a large number of them. Regular apps don't really have
that effect, though.

~~~
icegreentea
You can pirate Steam games.

You can pirate nearly any game at the cost of loosing "official"
multiplayer.This goes all the back to the first Starcraft or even earlier. But
you can play on non-official (private) servers. I played pirated TF2 on a
private server for a few weeks before my Orange Box arrived in the mail (yeah,
old fashioned).

~~~
moxiemk1
That's exactly what I mean - not having access to Steam servers is enough of a
carrot that games like TF2 aren't heavily pirated. Some of my friends and I
used to pirate a lot of games in high school; someone would find a copy and we
all could play. Steam games, however, everyone bought and owned legally.

------
fragmede
Based on their recent actions, Apple won't be allowing Flash and Java into the
Mac App Store, but that's just speculation on my part.

Also, it sounds like the author's never looked at pirating iPhone apps -
iPhone apps are _more_ tied to an unique identifier, and that hasn't stopped
iPhone apps from being pirated. The level of effort the masses are willing to
put into getting a $0.99 app for free does more to limit piracy than any
technical countermeasures.

~~~
rcoder
Based on my reading of the Mac App Store approval guidelines, I don't see how
Java or Flash (in their current forms) could _possibly_ be distributed via the
App Store. The terms explicitly forbid apps from installing any shared
frameworks, or modifying existing apps in any way.

I also assume that every Mac is going to have to be assigned a UDID now,
unless Apple is completely reinventing their DRM scheme. Regardless, the
piracy options for Mac apps are almost certainly going to be similar to their
iOS cousins, if not a little easier because every Mac is effectively "rooted"
out of the box.

------
chesspro
It all depends on how apple carries it out with their Mac App Store.

If they manage to do it in a way similar to steam, they'll be tremendously
successful. The only problem is that a lot of people don't view games the same
way as apps. I have friends who don't torrent games like MW2 & indie games but
they end up pirating office for mac. In fact, I would say over 50-60% of my
friends have torrented copies of office. Then again, my friends probably
aren't representative of most people. While the majority of people don't
bother pirating apps on the iOS, I wonder how much this will change with
bigger and more expensive apps on the Mac App Store, like with mac office.

One convenience with something like the App Store is that as long as you sign
in, you have access to your apps on your machines. More importantly, it's
available online digitally so you can redownload it anytime you want without
the worry of losing your dmgs. That alone is a major plus for me and probably
will get me to buy more software than I usually do.

And DRM systems are always going to be broken and again, the bigger question
is how will Apple execute this?

I still have a sense that people view games on steam vs normal apps
differently though. I know a lot of people who don't feel right pirating
certain games, but will gladly pirate other apps. I guess we will see when the
App Store launches.

~~~
jonhendry
Mac Office won't be on the App Store, because Microsoft has their own license
key systems, their own site license deals, etc.

------
aidenn0
We aren't missing why. All of the things pointed out in the article are
obvious (to me anyway). There is already something a lot like this (it's
called Steam) and the advantages and disadvantages are well established.

~~~
stcredzero
Right. This is why the Apple App Store won't have to carry violent games. They
can just leave that to Valve.

~~~
glhaynes
What? There are plenty of violent video games on the iPhone/iPad App Store
already. There aren't, say, rape simulations... but Steam wouldn't carry those
either.

------
deskamess
If they go down this path, there is an opportunity for a new app store (say
HackStore) with perhaps 85/15 terms for a pricing split. There is still the
initial problem of boot strapping/enabling/legitimizing HackStore on the users
desktop. A custom daemon would do the trick but how would you get it on the
users desktop? I am not sure if the AppStore will allow an app that could trim
Apples own revenues.

Then again, if they do not allow it, would they be subject to anti-trust (or
is it monopolistic) practices?

------
foulmouthboy
Video game systems have obviously worked within models like this (software
specific to system) for decades to varying levels of success.
Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo have also obviously worked in this exact model
(download software for dedicated systems) for years.

As a proof of concept, it's already been done and there is nothing to suggest
that it wouldn't work for Apple and in verticals outside of gaming.

------
lhnn
I'm surprised I haven't seen more parallels being drawn to Linux style package
managers, or the Ubuntu Software Center.

The app store does the same thing. Linux distros get to say what apps are put
in their repos based on arbitrary rules. I think a lot of the FUD and anti-
Apple rhetoric is just that (and this is coming from a guy who doesn't like
Apple!)

The more important issue, and one I think SOME pundits are getting right: Let
Apple have their App Store, as long as they allow people to run arbitrary
(read: any) programs on their Mac. If they start locking down the Mac
computers like they do the iPhones, THEN will be the time to attack Jobs'
character with more vitriol than even Zuckerberg has been getting.

~~~
mkelly
Agreed. When I heard about this, I immediately thought it was some kind of
partially-baked (maybe even mostly-baked) package manager.

OSes like OS X and Windows have been missing this for a _long_ time. I'm very
curious to see how it will work out for Apple.

