
Yahoo Removes Registered Trademark (R) From Logo - shill
http://instagram.com/p/Psvy_8EME6/
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gfodor
and here is the opposite effect, the new windows 8 logo:

<http://i50.tinypic.com/15oidfb.jpg>

A clean, simple, elegant logo, completely ruined by the honking TM _and_ (R)
injected by the lawyers. The bizarre presence of _two_ separate legalese-
related sigils on a single logo makes it impossible to miss. Also makes it
clear who is running the place.

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001sky
How does apple get away without this? Curious if anyone knows

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anigbrowl
Very small type at the bottom of their ads. Despite what people think, you are
not required to stick a trademark sigil right next to your mark. I have been
having this argument with people for nearly 20 years, and don't blame the
lawyers so much as the managers who won't take the time and effort to actually
think about what the lawyers are telling them.

~~~
randomfool
I've also heard (from MS lawyers) that it's only important to have this at the
first point of display of the logo, such as installer or splash screen. Does
not have to occur everywhere.

~~~
001sky
I'm thinking even the apple logo (with bite) on the back of a macbook, etc...

~~~
nchlswu
Then that example can be applied to the Surface tablet* and any manufacturer's
laptop -- no (TM) there.

But even then, what makes a hardware product different from an advertisement
or a software? As far as I know, there's no legal text on the bottom of these
hardware products either.

*I don't think there's a (tm) symbol there

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gergles
I find it completely hilarious that Marissa is not dogfooding. I know that
someone else said this earlier in the thread, but why is this on Instagram and
not flickr? Come on, at least use your own damn product.

The correct answer to the objection of "but Instagram is better right now" is
"I'm going to revitalize this product by using it for my own photos and
commentary, even if it sucks right now."

You don't want _the CEO_ of a company giving mindshare to a competitor!

~~~
whatusername
The counter-example is Steve Jobs:
<http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2209>

(who used a Thinkpad for perhaps 12-18 months after returning to apple)

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fullmoon
Running NextStep

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sprobertson
After which he promptly brought new life to the Powerbook series.

So when will Flickr be releasing a working mobile app?

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kevinh
Seeing all of the (TM)s and (R)s has always annoyed me. When I look at it I
always feel an undercurrent that it represents everything stereotypically
oppressive about a corporation.

Is there some legal reason for placing them up there (requirement to protect
the trademark in this way, a CYA, or some other reason), or are they just up
there for show?

~~~
gavinballard
If a trademark is challenged, it's often useful/necessary for a party to be
able to show that they've been using the mark _as a trademark_ in the past.
Slapping TM all over your branding is one way to unambiguously meet that
requirement.

That said, in almost all of the cases where a large organisation is using it
with a well-known brand, it's more of a CYA than anything else.

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dm8
On side note, she uses Instagram instead of Flickr. Looks like Flickr needs to
step up. Would be fun to see if she says to Flickr team, "I won't use your app
unless you improve it"

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spullara
Since the Flickr team didn't write it, I'm sure they would be glad to hear it.

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dm8
Really? Flickr didn't believe in native apps? Or they didn't have enough iOS
devs?

EDIT: Changed Yahoo to Flickr.

~~~
spullara
Native apps were owned by the mobile group, not the individual teams. And they
didn't get have the people to do it. I'm sure Marissa will rectify it.

~~~
dm8
Wow! This is news to me. Even mobile group didn't have people to do it. When
every goddamn investor was pumping money into photo sharing apps. Flickr had
the most popular photo-sharing app till 2008 and they missed the mobile tidal
wave!

~~~
damncabbage
This is the best telling of the history I've read so far:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1845592>

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revelation
Is there a reason this page is completely devoid of any interactivity? I
wanted to view further pictures she might have shared, but clicking her name
just brings up pointless statistics (number of photos and followers). Same
deal with the comment section. It's like someone pulled a copy of the page and
removed all the hyperlinks.

~~~
kanamekun
This is definitely being done for a reason. One of the best ways to increase
user clicks on a particular link is to remove all the other links on a page.

This case is a bit extreme: Instagram has removed most links not only for
mobile web browsers, but also for desktop users. That said, the reason for
removing it from desktop browsers may also extend to privacy: I personally
really like it that it's not easy to find links to my Instagram posts. Privacy
through obfuscation, I suppose.

In any case, Instagram's web presence really encourages users to download the
app. That's smart, as that's where Facebook is the weakest... so Instagram was
able to focus its (very) limited resources in the one place where it could
really shine.

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tamersalama
Her informal management style and potential empowerment of the new 'Yahoo!s'
is impressive. I can't think of a setup where a new hire would go around the
campus taking off all the Rs without her encouragement.

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dmor
Where can I buy ALL of these for Referly?

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glhaynes
Now ditch the exclamation point so you don't have to say "Yahoo!s."

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sixothree
Shouldn't it be Yahoo!'s anyway?

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evincarofautumn
Only if it’s possessive; apostrophes aren’t for plurals. They refer to their
employees as Yahoo!s, which I guess is supposed to be pronounced with an
alveolar click.

~~~
mistercow
That's not strictly true. It is partially a matter of editorial style, and
many standards have exceptions where apostrophes are used to form plurals.

For example almost everyone agrees that single letters are pluralized with an
apostrophe. It is somewhat less common to prescribe an apostrophe in the case
of a number either. When this is not allowed, an exception is sometimes made
for pluralizing the number zero so that it is not mistaken for the letter O.

It is fairly common to pluralize period-less abbreviations with apostrophes.
The New York Times, for example, follows that standard. It is more common
still for abbreviations with periods to take an apostrophe.

So basically, no. You don't get to just say "this is the rule for apostrophes
in all cases" because that's not how the written word works. We (or the
publication we are writing for) can choose our own editorial style, and screw
anyone who doesn't like it (although you should be consistent, of course).

But interestingly enough, this is one situation where there _can_ be a
universally correct answer: a trademark. If Yahoo! puts out guidelines for how
they would like their trademark pluralized, and they say it should be
"Yahoo!s", then that is what everyone should use. If they say it should be
"Yahoo!'s", then that's what everyone should use, even if it violates their
usual rules.

~~~
Camillo
Why, what are the Yahoos going to do if I don't follow their "style guide"?
Threaten me with their little ®? Not anymore, they won't.

~~~
mistercow
No they won't threaten you. You'll just look, to the small number of people
who are aware of the correct style, like you don't know what you're doing.

~~~
Camillo
Oh, no. My refusal to put an exclamation mark inside a word is entirely
deliberate.

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JagMicker
Copyright and trademark are just tools to be used by those who can. Case in
point --- Apple uses any music they want in their TV commercials and never
pays to license it. Apparently, in their opinion, the artist deserves nothing
more than the opportunity to benefit from increased exposure. I suppose that's
why they pick more obscure music (CSS).

Another interesting point is that, for some time now, movie distributors have
used the FBI seal without licensing it. But that seal sure makes the video
piracy warning look official! <http://www.sonnyboo.com/images/tips/FBI.jpg>

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jordaninternets
A subtle change that means a lot.

~~~
alid
I agree. There's a tangible sense of renewal at Yahoo - they've been stagnant
for so long, it's refreshing to see them challenging the status quo and
revitalising their culture.

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capkutay
I judge a CEO by what he or she instagrams about the company and how the
employees contribute their 2 cents to the company logo.

Ok, excuse the sarcasm. But I don't see what this tells us about Yahoo! or
Meyers performance as a CEO. I'd like to hear more about how she's managing
Yahoo!, augmenting its products and services, and above all how that this
performance translates to better earnings.

~~~
sp332
This is part of her continuing campaign to remove bureaucracy from the
corporation. This is a dramatic, symbolic image.

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tomflack
Interesting for me is the regional Yahoo (au.yahoo.com) is destined to receive
zero benefit from Marissa's reign.

One thing I like about Google is they do have regional variants, but they're
all pretty much the same.

Yahoo varies WIDELY with all the weird partnership deals they have struck with
local companies over the years.

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nathantone
awesome, next up the "!"

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eliaskg
There is still one on the front page:
<http://f.cl.ly/items/0z0V110Z0g2b1U0o2A2M/r.png>

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smountcastle
Excellent! I'd love to see more companies follow suit. I have a bunch of
'logowear' and it annoys me greatly when a company puts TM or R after its logo
on shirts, hats, jackets, etc. It seems absurd to me to need to protect their
mark so vigorously on clothing when it's a tech company -- I don't mind seeing
TM/R in advertisements, on their website, etc. but don't place it on clothing!

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duked
Seriously, I'm tired of seeing her name in the press for no valuable reasons:
no assigned parking, iphone for all employee, open space, now the (r) removed
from the logo. Come on all of these changes are ok but not worth all the
press.

Let me know when she actually change the group strategy or announces new
products !

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hrktb
It's so confusing to have a ceo mention a company related matter on it's
personal space on a rival service.

~~~
connortomas
Really? <https://twitter.com/instagram> <https://twitter.com/facebook>
<http://www.facebook.com/yahoo> <https://twitter.com/yahoo> Etc.

Keep in mind that if Marissa had posted this to Flickr, we wouldn't even be
discussing this. The last thing you want from a CEO at Yahoo! is for them to
suffer from the head-in-the-sand delusion that Yahoo's services "are" the
internet.

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mpclark
It wasn't the "(R)" that needed removing, it was the "!".

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lquist
Good to see that there is real structural change afoot at Yahoo. </sarcasm>

~~~
rplnt
In other news, Yahoo is now being renamed to Yaho to get even more scrape
metal to pay off its debts.

~~~
xtreme
Last time I checked, they are sitting on quite a big pile of cash.

