
An abandoned seaside town in Cyprus is about to reopen - tomcam
https://www.messynessychic.com/2020/07/29/seaside-ghost-town-the-abandoned-millionaires-resort/
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muse900
While Erdogan is behind the wheel, Turkey will keep suffering his power-plays.
Its very unfortunate that he doesn't want any conflict resolution, just power
games (don't forget blocking social media sites in Turkey etc). I have a
feeling that Turks do want to progress and be part of the westernized world
but he is keeping them behind. A week ago he converted a highly valuable world
heritage monument into a mosque knowing it will damage his relationships with
Europe. Reopening Famagusta is only gonna make things worse.

Generally speaking the area has been conflicted from all sides, e.g Israel-
Palestine etc, and it feels like noone really wants to fix things up and let
the area heal for generations to come? I mean come on people we are in 2020
and we act like we are 70 years ago... we should be thinking out of the box.

Although I am biased on this subject as I legally own land that I can't use or
visit in Famagusta, I thought I'd share my opinion.

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StavrosK
My Turkish friends tell me that Turkey is divided between the ultra-
conservative, iisolationist nationalists m that Erdoğan appeals to, and the
more liberal people who don't like any of this at all.

A friend of mine has told me that the only way he'll return to Turkey is to
attend Erdoğan's funeral. I sympathize with him, he's as sad about the current
situation as I am (though from the other side).

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onemoresoop
What side are you from?

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bryanrasmussen
I think from the name he is sad from the Greek side?

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StavrosK
That is correct.

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kweks
Politics aside, Famagusta is quite fascinating. There are relatively few
recent photos online, mainly due to the army presence and "shoot on sight"
warnings.

Never the less, I visited a few years ago. Very strange to see in real life
the "nature takes over the cities" so often imagined in films.

[http://www.ninjito.com/_2015-04-14-Varosha](http://www.ninjito.com/_2015-04-14-Varosha)

~~~
GekkePrutser
That would indeed be amazing to see, such a time capsule. They should really
make it a museum. The world doesn't need another beach resort, but a view on
the past would be amazing.

I see you even slept there! Did you have someone keeping watch? It must have
been a once in a lifetime trip!

Do they really shoot on sight? I really doubt that. But I'm sure you'd have a
really uncomfortable time at a Turkish police station when caught.

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kweks
There is significant military presence around and inside the base, regular
patrols, watch towers, cameras and IR walls. Not sure if they shoot on sight,
because we managed to avoid being seen. I imagine that it's less important
strategically now than before, but it was definitely one of the more stressful
infiltrations.

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throw48e7
Turkey-EU relationship are at freezing point. This is not reopening, but
anexation of neutral zone.

~~~
NicoJuicy
It's pretty obvious that Turkey should never be allowed in the EU.

And then Erdogan wonders why, lol.

Fyi: I do some business with Turkish people. I just don't trust Erdogan.

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StavrosK
I'm sure he's perfectly aware that Turkey isn't going to join the EU, which is
why he feels like he has nothing to lose with these actions.

~~~
WordSkill
About 15% of Turkey's exports are to the EU, and over two-thirds of their
tourists.

Turkish industry heavily utilizes EU financial and consulting services.

Turkey also benefits from various infrastructural and knowledge-sharing
schemes supplied by the EU.

So, quite a lot to lose.

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StavrosK
I meant regarding the possibility of joining the EU, that ship has sailed. I
guess he feels that the EU needs Turkey more than the other way around?

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WordSkill
Well, whatever he thought, Covid-19 has blown everyone's plans wide open.

Erdogan has to somehow keep his deeply indebted country rolling and his
population of 82 million employed. It seems foolish to start picking fights
with his biggest trading partner but, who knows, perhaps this is the sort of
distraction that will keep his population focused on nationalism.

~~~
StavrosK
Hey, I completely agree with you, I'm just theorizing on what his thought
process might be.

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grugagag
He seems to be feeding his nationalistic sheeple by strenghtening the
reliegious ethos with such moves as turning Hagia Sofia into a Mosque and
taking over this neutral territory which was in limbo for a really long time.
Erdogan has nothing else to show his supporters rather than Turkey is becoming
strong again, some sort of Turkish version of MAGA. The Turks who don’t
support Erdogan are powerless at the moment. Only economic disaster will
weaken his grip on power there. Similar to Erdogan we have Viktor Orban in
Hungary and many others in the making. Hopefully once Trump is out other
totalitarian dictators will follow suit

~~~
sitkack
Everything you say is correct, but Erdogan predated MAGA. It is Trump that
emulates the fascism and jingoistic populism of Erdogan. They are made from
the same cloth.

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WordSkill
Idiotic move, driven by Turkish nationalism, that hands a massive PR win to
the Cypriots and is likely to result in a significant backlash against Turkish
tourism in general.

Pre-Covid, Turkey's tourist industry had been rapidly expanding. By 2019,
Turkey was the world's sixth most popular destination, with over 51 million
tourists. That's a lot of jobs, a lot of cash for a developing nation with low
levels of education and skills.

The fact that their newly opened Istanbul Airport will, once completed, have
an annual capacity of 200 million passengers indicates Turkey's ambition was
to keep their tourist industry growing as fast as possible.

The national flag carrier, Turkish Airlines, with 315 scheduled destinations,
was the largest mainline carrier in the world by number of passenger
destinations. That's a lot of planes that are currently mostly grounded.

Now, just as the entire global tourist industry lies in tatters, the Turks are
going to dredge up bad memories and alienate the valuable European market by
moving aggressively against Cyprus, an EU member. Are German and Swedish
tourists really going to ignore that and book their winter escapes in Turkey?

All that Turkey gains is a good but relatively small site for a tourist city,
one that has to be demolished and built again from scratch. That massive
investment, made in direct defiance of United Nations rules, could all be lost
if they do end up having to hand that disputed territory back to the original
occupants.

It is all so needlessly stupid, running directly counter to the long-term
interests of Turkey as a whole. This is a good example of why "strong leaders"
are not such a hot idea. The generals running Thailand, another country
massively dependent upon tourism, are an example of the same thing. Even
before Covid-19 came along, they were needlessly whipping up anti-Western
sentiment, overcomplicating their visa rules, and pretending that tourism was
no longer a significant part of "Thailand 4.0". Now that roughly a quarter of
their economy has disappeared, they have to somehow do a 360 without admitting
they made a mistake and losing face.

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9nGQluzmnq3M
I think you're seriously exaggerating the extent to which the average cheap
Turkish resort package tourist cares. The area has already been occupied by
Turkey for decades, whether they're building there or letting it rot is not
particularly consequential (unless you have pre-invasion property claims, of
course).

~~~
WordSkill
It was not left unoccupied for almost half a century by mistake. There was an
actual UN resolution that ruled it could only be resettled by the original
inhabitants. Tearing down those homes and building over them will be deeply
consequential. It will make Turkey an international pariah and raise questions
about other issues, such as their treatment of their Kurd minority.

For your cheap package tourist, money and convenience matter even if ethics do
not. The international embargo means no direct flights from anywhere other
than Turkey, so, your package tourist would be looking at significant
additional travel time and expense.

Then you have infrastructure. The south of the island received significant
grants and subsidies from the EU, had plenty of foreign investment, a thriving
tourist industry, and a tourist-oriented population that can mostly speak
English. The north was isolated, unable to export, and almost entirely
dependent on meagre support from Turkey, meaning that the north fell far
behind.

So, your package tourist will have fewer comforts, fewer food choices, and
would be served by inexperienced staff with little English. The TripAdvisor
reviews will be painful.

For the next decade or so, the supply of tourist accommodation all over the
world is going to wildly exceed demand. The established destinations, with
experienced operators, established reputations, and direct flights are going
to utterly dominate a cut-throat market. The main Turkish tourist industry
will, of course, survive but this self-inflicted damage to its reputation will
make it harder than it could have been.

~~~
mvc
> It will make Turkey an international pariah and raise questions about other
> issues, such as their treatment of their Kurd minority.

Like how Israel became an international pariah for resettlements in the West
Bank?

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StavrosK
> Varosha fell victim to the ongoing war between the Greeks and the Turks

Which war was that? The article is trying to paint the invasion as some sort
of military advancement during wartime, when it was a completely sudden
invasion of another country.

~~~
dalai
There were ongoing internal conflicts going back to the 50s and 60s with
atrocities from both sides. I don’t know if you’d call it war, but it did
eventually lead to the invasion.

Check “Cypriot intercommunal violence” on Wikipedia.

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planetis
Some backstory: After last week fiasco, where the Greek navy fleet, forced
them to "postpone" their seismographic research south of Crete (Greek
territorial waters), they're back at their usual, bullying the weakest kid.
Really sad.

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known
Its inhabitants fled during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974, when the
city of Famagusta came under Turkish control, and it has remained abandoned
ever since
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varosha,_Famagusta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varosha,_Famagusta)

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mkl
Varosha is used as an example in Alan Weisman's fascinating book _Without Us_
, which explains what would happen to the world and all we've built and done
to it if humans disappeared.

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vmh1928
Erdogan is probably looking at the expansionism of China in the South China
Sea and the weak response from the U.S. (and others,) and thinks he can do the
same thing in the Med.

~~~
luckylion
It's not a new thing, and it's not Erdogan, they've occupied parts of Cyprus
for almost 50 years. It's pretty normal Turkish policy, and they know they can
get away with it. Strong communities inside Europe (in exchange for aligning
with NATO) and controlling the flow of migrants that Europe doesn't want but
doesn't have the courage to say so are strong bargaining chips.

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megahz
a very informative article on the times us Cypriots didn't do the extra step
to reclaim the city, [https://politis.com.cy/apopseis/oi-epta-fores-poy-
arnithikam...](https://politis.com.cy/apopseis/oi-epta-fores-poy-arnithikame-
tin-ammochosto/) (it's in greek).

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xwdv
If a drone pilot flew a drone in would they find and kill the pilot?

