
Tensorflow 2.0 Beta 0 - Gimpei
https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/releases/tag/v2.0.0-beta0
======
NickHoff
Maybe I'll give TF another try, but right now I'm really liking PyTorch. With
TensorFlow I always felt like my models were buried deep in the machine and it
was very hard to inspect and change them, and if I wanted to do something non-
standard (which for me is most of the time) it was difficult even with Keras.
With PyTorch though, I connect things however how I want, write whatever
training logic I want, and I feel like my model is right in my hands. It's
great for research and proofs-of-concept. Maybe for production too.

~~~
strebler
TF's deprecation velocity was way too high for my taste. Things we wrote would
stop working randomly with their updates. I feel very similar to you about the
models being "buried too deep" in their (ever-changing) machine. I much
preferred how easy it was to hack Caffe V1 (once you got past the funky names,
etc).

These days, I really like mxnet. Torch was a disaster, but Pytorch is much
better. It's not bad in production, definitely my #2.

~~~
panpanna
> TF's deprecation velocity

That's Google on a nutshell. In fact, they may drop TF altogether next month.
You never know ...

------
levesque
Might give it another try, but my latest incursion in the Tensorflow universe
did not end pleasantly. I ended up recoding everything in Pytorch, took me
less than a day to do the stuff that took me more than a week in TF. One
problem is that there are too many ways to do the same thing in TF and it's
hard to transition from one to the other.

~~~
sandGorgon
What do you think of Keras in this space ? Because TF 2.0 is _entirely_ keras
based.

[https://medium.com/tensorflow/standardizing-on-keras-
guidanc...](https://medium.com/tensorflow/standardizing-on-keras-guidance-on-
high-level-apis-in-tensorflow-2-0-bad2b04c819a)

~~~
sytelus
This is one thing that confuses me. Why Keras is still a separate brand? Why
everything isn't under just tensorflow namespace instead of having to do
tf.keras all the time. I really wish tf just had one API and just one thing to
learn.

~~~
cheez
Keras is a high level API that can use multiple backends. So it makes sense
for them to remain separated.

~~~
p1esk
I haven't used TF much lately, but the last time I looked at TF2 it felt like
they are making it harder to build low level api models.

~~~
cheez
I doubt it, it's more likely that they are creating higher level abstractions
atop the lower level ones and are advertising/documenting the higher level
ones

------
dannykwells
I am very happy that Google has realized the importance of usability.
Hopefully that comes with concomitant improvements in the tf documentation,
which, while thorough is completely unusable and lacks good examples for
complex things.

------
flensortow
Any news on Swift for Tensorflow?

I’m skeptical of how much practical benefit it will provide but still willing
to take a look at it.

There doesn’t seem to be any mention of it here.

~~~
panpanna
From what I understand this is mostly because they hired the Swift guy.

I understand the benefits compared to Python (although I would have preferred
Go or Kotlin). But what happens when the guy eventually moves on in a year or
two?

~~~
favorited
Google's making a big investment in Swift, so if Chris left and they were
interested in continuing to support it they shouldn't have a problem.

I've gone to Swift on the Server conferences hosted/sponsored by Google, their
(non-TF) Swift teams are building some cool Swift tools, etc.

~~~
panpanna
Google is a Go shop, specially when it comes to servers.

Swift is not properly supported on linux, which is Google's main platforms.

~~~
bge0
This is incorrect; swift is open source and has linux deployments :
[https://swift.org/download/](https://swift.org/download/)

~~~
panpanna
Linux support is still WIP. Some parts are missing

------
nickserv
Nice to see the project moving along, I'm just getting started with the basics
for a way finding application and will probably start off with version 2 then.

Hopefully by the time stable comes around I'll be near production ready as
well.

A bit off-topic, but does TF or pyTorch work nicely with AMD GPUs?

I'd rather not have to deal with Nvidia's blob drivers if at all possible.

~~~
p1esk
_does TF or pyTorch work nicely with AMD GPUs?_

No.

------
hn2017
Does anyone know when there'll be updated Coursera (or other sites) courses
with TF 2.0?

~~~
wodenokoto
They have one on udacity

