
DOSbox-CRT - akavel
https://mattiasgustavsson.itch.io/dosbox-crt
======
Mizza
You can also use DOSBox as a LibRetro core
[[https://docs.libretro.com/library/dosbox/](https://docs.libretro.com/library/dosbox/)]
- this enables to use any of the filters the LibRetro provides on the
frontend, including CRT.

This pattern should be the future of emulation development, where possible.

~~~
core-questions
RetroArch is a pretty terrible UI, though - it takes everything bad about that
Sony UI and it's not particularly performant, either.

Lots of stability and performance issues. Had difficulty getting a 3ghz Core 2
Duo to emulate SNES effectively with it... might've chosen the wrong engine
out of the thousand alternatives, though.

~~~
Zardoz84
wtf ? I ran SNES and Sega Genesis emualtors on a 486DX4 a long time ago, and
was running perfect!

~~~
dahauns
No, certainly not perfect.

A great article from the author of higan (whose core OP probably used):
[https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-
power-...](https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-
mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/)

------
kbenson
It's odd to me that someone would want this filter that much on DOSBox. I
understand why it's generally included in game emulators - they were generally
played on displays that looked somewhat like this. But DOSBox is for DOS
games, and to my knowledge, most weren't played on displays that looked like
this. At least, I don't think so, unless I'm completely misremembering my
childhood, since almost all of the images shown are for games I actually
played on a DOS computer using a SVGA display when young.

~~~
shdon
The 1980s with its CGA, EGA and early VGA displays must be from before your
time then? I definitely played games looking like that. I prefer not to use
such filters, but some people might be nostalgic for it. One interesting
application might also be for games that make use of the overscan border,
which is not normally visible in DOSBox (and people have been trying to work
around this), causing problems in games that need it such as Crystal Caves.

~~~
kbenson
I'm referring less to the curve, and more to the scanlines[3]. The bleed in
CRTs means that's not what it actually looked like when displayed on era
accurate hardware, so it's always confused me why people would opt for a
filter that claims to be "authentic" that does this, especially when emulating
the visual experience enough to show screen rounding.

For example, here's a picture of an actual DOS ANSI output, from a CRT
monitor[1], and here's the equivalent display from this filter[2]. In what way
is emulating the scanlines making this more authentic?

Edit: clarified a bit

1: [https://steemit-production-imageproxy-
thumbnail.s3.amazonaws...](https://steemit-production-imageproxy-
thumbnail.s3.amazonaws.com/U5dtcYTKdwcTiwv2tRKds1SGGK2Fxcm_1680x8400)

2:
[https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvMjU1NzcwLzEyMjU1NTQucG5n/origi...](https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvMjU1NzcwLzEyMjU1NTQucG5n/original/yx1c62.png)

3: The correct terminology is escaping me. The interlacing? Whatever is
responsible for the skipping of lines in the output.

~~~
pvg
It's tricky to make a comparison of 'authenticity': for one thing, some
displays had more visible scanlines and for another, it's the sort of detail
that's easily lost in photos because you're taking a picture of a small, very-
high contrast area and the artifacts often bleed together.

~~~
kbenson
Well, it can be tricky once you start getting accurate, but I'm not sure any
display _ever_ looked like these screenshots, or even very close to it. There
was always some visual bleed to eyes as well, not just pictures.

I'm pretty sure even LCD panels just repeated lines and didn't leave them
blank, so some portion of people actually used an LCD to play these originally
might have close to perfect accuracy if they repeated lines.

The only times I can particularly remember scanlines being really bad and
noticeable were on the old CGA displays in the 80's. And those didn't look
like this representation by a long shot, there was a lot of bleed in those as
well, the lines were just big enough the bleed didn't obfustate it quite as
much. I can't comment on EGA/VGA, we went straight from a CGA monitor to a
SVGA one in the late 80's or early 90's, I don't recall exactly when. It's
possible there was a display type in there that I didn't use much which
actually makes this representation more accurate.

~~~
pvg
I think the effect tends to be exaggerated in most of these implementations my
points are just 1. visible scanlines were totally a thing. 2. it's really hard
to take a representative photo of a CRT.

~~~
WorldMaker
Also, human memory is a funny thing, and these sorts of things are easy to
forget from your remembered experience, too. So to some it is exaggerated
because they only remember it at its best and others it is spot-on because
they only remember it at its worst. Because we notice problems more than
things working, there may be more people in that second camp than in the
first.

------
smrtinsert
The audio production world which goes to great lengths to reproduce audio
equipment, I would love to see shaders faithfully replicate classic monitors.

~~~
welly
The Iiyama Vision Master Pro 454 should be one of those. And the Sony FW900
24" wide-screen trinitron. I had both those screens.

The Sony FW900 is without doubt the best CRT monitor ever built (IMHO). It was
a ridiculous monitor, both in size, sharpness, colour accuracy and most of all
weight.

I remember buying a used one for about £300 (I recall the retail price was
close to £1000) and my housemate and I carrying the thing up to my room,
almost breaking our backs. It was easily 40kg. But it was an outstanding
monitor. The best CRT screen I've ever used by a long shot.

~~~
bitL
Dunno, I really hated Trinitron screens due to both horizontal strips as well
as seeing individual pixel triplets and gaps between them (I guess my eyes are
super sensitive to parallel/perpendicular lines; can't look happily at non-
retina LCDs either). I found Samsung's Invar variants in their SyncMaster
(757DFX and higher going up to 2048x1536) superior and much more natural
(likely my eyes aren't that sensitive to diagonal non-perpendicular
directions).

~~~
welly
I didn't mind those lines across the screen. I could definitely see them but
didn't find it bothered me. I couldn't go back to a non-retina LCD screen now
though. And I suspect going back to my old FW900 might be something I wouldn't
enjoy these days. But I remember at the time being blown away from it after
having a variety of average to slightly above average CRT screens.

Actually, one of my earliest memories of using CRT monitors was my first PC (a
Packard Bell 286) with the monitor having a dot pitch of about 0.3, or
possibly even higher than that. The pixels were like bricks.

Eventually upgraded to a monitor with a dot pitch of 0.26 and I remember it
felt like going from a standard LCD screen to a retina screen. It was quite
the revolution for me at the time.

------
slazaro
I was just thinking, something like this could be pretty cool in VR; the
curvature of the screen could be 3D instead of a 2D warp. Having modern higher
dpi monitors inside VR is not great because of the resolution of the headsets,
but this low resolution would work I think.

~~~
sebular
You might be interested in this:

[http://www.emuvr.net/](http://www.emuvr.net/)

------
stasm
[http://gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_S...](http://gamasutra.com/blogs/KylePittman/20150420/241442/CRT_Simulation_in_Super_Win_the_Game.php)
is a well-explained and and a copiously illustrated write-up about why CRT
emulation is essential to many pixel-art retro games.

~~~
rasz
Your link talks about CRT TV emulation (NES over composite etc), totally not
applicable to DOS gaming using VGA monitor.

------
thijsvandien
This strongly reminds me of Cathode
([http://www.secretgeometry.com/apps/cathode/](http://www.secretgeometry.com/apps/cathode/)).

~~~
shmerl
See also crt: [https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-
term](https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term)

------
sevensor
I love that there are so many screenshots from TFTD. Oh the hours I've spent
playing that game under Dosbox. No victories, though. I put up a good fight,
but the aliens always win in the end. Started playing it on a CRT, under
actual DOS, deep in the mists of time, but I can't say I noticed a difference
when I switched over.

~~~
MGustavsson
Well, it is probably my favourite game of all time, so it was an obvious
choice :)

~~~
sevensor
The aliens are just so smart and pitiless! The game does a great job of making
you feel weak and vulnerable -- one sonic pulser can wipe out half your squad
if you get bottled up. And just when you think you're getting the upper hand,
lobstermen show up and cut you to bits, or you discover that your star
aquanaut is susceptible to mind control. Guess it's time for another play-
through and inevitable defeat :)

~~~
Gravityloss
The only way to get rid of lobstermen is the drill.

~~~
sevensor
Which is unfortunate because they have a strong melee attack and if you can
walk up to them, they can walk up to you. You have to either sneak up on them
or rely on them being too aggressive for their own good and overextending
themselves. The thermal shock bomb stuns them pretty effectively, if you
manage to develop it before they show up.

------
loudandskittish
Anyone know of an easy way to get games purchased off GOG to use this version
by default?

~~~
MGustavsson
Yeah, you if you search the installation folder of the GOG game for the
dosbox.exe and replace it with the dosbox-crt.exe (renaming it), and then edit
the dosbox.conf of the GOG game to use output=opengl, then it should run by
default.

~~~
loudandskittish
Thank you!

------
thedaemon
Why is this all over every news outlet that I've visited today? Twitter,
OSNews and now Hacker News. I admit, it's something I'm interested in, but
very curious as to why it is so prevalent. Does anyone have any idea?

~~~
always_good
> Twitter, OSNews and now Hacker News

Not a very strong case for "prevalent."

~~~
thedaemon
Should I have said Facebook...? These are the only news outlets I visit, so
it's pretty prevalent. I also really like how I got down-voted for asking a
question. Cool, I'll not ask any more questions.

