
Show HN:  I built this CRM Tool for Windows.  Thoughts? - dalacv
http://crmfly.com
======
huhtenberg
First of all, props for making a desktop app.

Don't mind what others say about the UI, I know how hard is it do something
that doesn't look like butt on Windows. Yours has a good balance of
customization, the native look and feel and a reference to the Office. I
wouldn't worry about the UI, it's solid. Everyone picks on it, because it's
the easiest thing to critique.

There are few things that I don't like, in the order they stuck out."Fly! CRM!
Fly!" in the page title - this is buddy-buddy and cute, but you aren't selling
a social app or a game. You have to get your first impression right, or you
won't get a download. To that end, you must have an About section with at
least some details on where you are and the contact information. Similarly,
there must be the Support section, ideally with some sort of public Forums
sections, because not everyone is comfortable emailing the support.

Secondly, you must absolutely have a free/trial version. As low as your
current price point is, Windows users are not used to paying for trials. I'm
sure you know that.

Third, the name in combination with the logo - again, too playful. And this
leads to the most important part - this playful, less serious feel combined
with $5 price point says "here's a toy program I made for the lulz." It's a
complete miss in terms of branding.

Overall, the program doesn't come across as a professional product. It _looks_
like one, it is certainly aimed at a professional crowd, but it doesn't have
all expected supporting attributes that would confirm it is one. The good news
is that all this is very easy to fix compared to what you already
accomplished.

Once again - good stuff, just needs a bit of a positioning polish.

~~~
dalacv
Love the comments. Thanks tons for the feedback. Just curious... What is your
thought on the fly icon? Keep it or dump it?

~~~
huhtenberg
Rework it, on low priority. Get rid of the trail, and try and rework the
symbol into a more squarish shape, because that way it can be used as the app
icon. If done this way, the the product logo will be a combination of the
symbol and a wordmark (CRMFLY) - "[X] CRMFLY" - which is, in my experience, a
very practical arrangement that maps well to all common uses.

~~~
dalacv
nice. i will give it a shot later.

------
fleitz
Less software, more people.

Outline benefits not features, no one cares that you have slick-reports
generation, they care about "Reports that will land you your next bonus". Same
with the desktop thing, why should I care that people say the Desktop is dead.
Instead say "Access your CRM while you're in the air for FREE" and then put an
infographic together of how much the average business person will save in one
year in wireless charges accessing Highrise from the plane.

Product looks completely sellable, marketing does not look like it will
generate many sales.

~~~
dalacv
You're completely right. I will work on changing the content to highlight
value vs. features.

Thanks!

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aaronbrethorst
It looks nice, but it also looks like Office 2003. Have you looked into
matching the 2007/2012 UI?

Also, I think $5 is way too low. The people who need CRM would probably doubt
the product's quality at such a low price point. Better to have 1 customer at
$50 (or better yet $99 or more) than ten at $5.

~~~
dalacv
Good point. I will look to see if I can raise the price. Just have to make
sure the value is there.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
What I'm saying is pick another equally arbitrary price point and then see if
you can sell copies. I think $5 will be an _active_ deterrent to sales.

~~~
dalacv
Awesome. I will make the change tonight and will offer a trial version.

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redguava
Put a trial version and change the price to $95.

Also I would update the UI to look more modern. At worst take screenshots from
a higher resolution screen so it doesn't look so cramped.

Good job launching something!

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aspratley
I haven't tried it so these comments are just about the sales pitch:

Have you talked to potential customers? What do your potential customers want,
what needs aren't being matched by someone else?

Your opening sounds empty to me. Your product doesn't look like every other
CRM tool, it doesn't look like peoplesoft, salesforce, sugarcrm. To me it
looks a bit out of date. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I've worked with
plenty of people that feel far more comfortable with something "more
traditional". I would go with an opening selling the straight forward to the
point nature of the product.

Personally I prefer to see the price/buying options before I click a buy now
button.

You are selling a CRM product but your first screen shot is of a task list
with personal items on it. Loose weight etc. As a customer this doesn't shout
this software will help me manage customers and make more money.

The description on the customers screenshot is incorrect.

It looks like this is a product for a single person/freelancer as it doesn't
allow sharing of data. That's going to limit your audience.

Personally I'd sell/develop the customer management/communication features
more - how is it easy to keep trac of conversations, does it hook into email
can I merge my calendar? I'd consider a mobile version for people visting
clients on site.

------
gerdusvz
My suggestions: 1) Mention that it is Windows only and supports Windows 8 2)
Take the screenshots with the DevExpress Metropolis skin if your app doesn't
look too bad with it. It looks like a "modern" windows 8 app 3) Big free 15
day trial button 4) Basic version for $20; Advanced version for $99 (e.g.
Report designer only in Advanced version)

~~~
dalacv
Thanks. This is why I love hackernews.

------
nhebb
Here's my laundry list of feedback:

\- The lead text is too chummy. Make it concise and professional.

\- When facing a blank page, one copywriting technique I've come up with is to
make a list of all your features, and then next to each write the benefit. Now
flip each around and write a sentence matching the "get benefit x from feature
x." Group and edit from there.

\- "Who said that the desktop was dead?" is too defensive when the desktop
should be one of your selling points. You may not read about it on HN, but
many people prefer desktop software over web based and mobile tools. And many
prefer one-time purchases to ongoing subscriptions.

\- There is very little text for search engines to crawl. At the very least,
add a blog and start writing about CRM and related topics.

\- You need an About page. People want to know who they are buying from.

\- You should have a privacy policy as well.

\- Cannot order more than 1 license at a time. E-junkie is a good interim
solution for selling via PayPal.

\- Why is there a link to Mixpanel in the footer? I'd remove it.

\- The video is full screen and blurry at my monitor's resolution. Also, if
you're creating a screencast without sound, you need to use text bubbles so
viewers can follow along.

\- Why does the Support link go to another site? A simple contact form would
be better than taking visitors off site.

\- Chrome gives a security warning for the download. You should get a real
digital certificate as opposed to self signing. K Software
(<http://codesigning.ksoftware.net/>) sells code signing certs for a
relatively low cost.

\- The installation has no instructions. Unzipping and running the setup file
may seem obvious, but you'd be surprised how many people would get tripped up
by this. Technically challenged people have money, and they do buy software.

\- The download isn't very fast. It looks like you're deploying the entire
DevExpress library. Do you need to deploy all those components?

~~~
dalacv
awesome. Thanks for the feedback. I will work through some of those this week!

------
wavesounds
I used to work for a company that customized Microsoft CRM. Im not sure I
understand this, do your client's have to buy a Microsoft license to use this?
You're using their API right? It looks just like out of the box Microsoft CRM,
are you sure your not going to get sued trying to sell this?

Sorry if im being negative maybe with some more explanation on the site it
would make more sense to me and your customers who are probably doing the same
comparison I am.

~~~
dalacv
This was done in a very short amount of time using DevExpress' XAF. Also, this
CRM looks like every other CRM. That is also true. But that is the nature of
CRM tools. They all look the same.

~~~
wavesounds
No they dont, this looks exactly like MS CRM 4.0 not like Salesforce.com or
CRM using Google's apps or even the latest version of MS CRM. Also MS CRM has
all the same features as this.

Is this hosted or clients have to host it themselves? Do you have support or
tell people what they need to get this running? Im guessing a server, windows
server license, a MSSQL license and Outlook licenses at the least right? Or
does each person have to have his own copy of the data? And the pay with
paypal link even feels wonky.

Im sorry to have to say this but this feels like a scam and if it isn't then I
think you really need to focus on the design of your website and customer
education.

~~~
dalacv
You're right. I was definitely generalizing a bit. This is a thick-client
1-user app. It can be multi user, but that is coming down the road.

~~~
jstoppa
wavesounds made a really good point, your product looks exactly like Microsoft
Dynamics CRM 4.0. I don’t know who your customers are and what are their needs
but I think the first question I would ask myself is why your customer would
choose you and not MS CRM or any other CRM if both offer the same
functionality.

------
humbledrone
I know nothing about CRM tools, but I have some superficial feedback about
your landing page.

In "Take control of your leads, customers, products, projects, tasks using a
modern interface [...]", you probably want an "and" before "tasks".

Underneath your "Customers" screenshot, it looks like you pasted in the same
description as for the "Goals" screenshot.

Typographically, your double spacing between sentences makes the left edge of
the text look horrible, both in the opening blurb at the top and in some of
the screenshot descriptions. The text does not line up vertically on the left-
hand side.

Finally, this is less objective but "DangerousApps" seems like it might not be
the best name for your enterprise software company. That name might fly for a
funky indy game company, but to most businesses, the word "dangerous" is just
about the last thing they want to be associated with their software.

~~~
facorreia
I clicked on Buy and was greeted by a screen with DANGEROUSAPPS all over it. I
suppose most users have reflexes to hit the back button now when they see a
warning like that.

~~~
dalacv
Yup. Definitely the worst decision I've made so far. I am in the middle of
registering a new LLC. It will take some time. For now, I have included the
DBA of Rakesoft into the EULA.

------
beatpanda
My nonprofit is in the market for a CRM tool, but none of us would be able to
use this — we're an all-Mac shop.

Does your app have any way to import external data sources (preferably
automatically)? Lots of organizations looking for CRM tools look for features
that allow them to plug them in to tools they're already using.

~~~
dalacv
It will, but that will need to be way down the line. I can basically use an
ORM layer to handle the integration with legacy data.

------
ruff
Small thing—but not sure I'd buy a product from a company called "Dangerous
Apps"

It's been a while since I've used Goldmine, ACT, or any of the more SMB
focused CRM apps but it's definitely not clear why I'd choose CRM Fly vs those
products. i'd emphasize simplicity and ease of use—there are a lot of folks
out there who benefit from sales tracking tools who simply don't need
everything out there.

Would, however, suggest things like XL exports and perhaps consider SaaS
opportunities or partnerships around things like invoice printing/automation.
If your approach is "simple, easy, helpful" (cause the other guys are
complicated bloatware) then think how you can do this end-to-end for whomever
you are designing/building for.

~~~
ruff
BTW, another approach is eventually tackle a vertical... perhaps you'll end-up
being the #1 CRM app for small practice attorneys, dentists, accountants,
etc... you can potentially carve out a niche there, give yourself more focus
on whom you want to build for and what their problems are, and find venues for
better addressing those markets. I know several folks who started out thinking
"broad", received limited but helpful initial adoption, talked to their
customers and saw patterns of the types that seemed to have the biggest unmet
needs and were actively seeking new ideas/solutions. Then you start to double
down.

~~~
dalacv
Definitely hear you on this last point. I am currently planning work with a
buddy who is the expert in a niche area. We will spin off and work in this
area to tailor it for his (and hopefully others) needs.

------
gauravpandey
I think you should give it for 3 to 6 months free trial. Anyone who will use
it for this long will be your happy customer anyways. Then you can charge a
reasonable amount. Putting prices low may not help you much.

------
skrebbel
I love it, and I'm definitely the target audience. There is, however, one
question that it leaves hanging in my head: can I use this with my colleagues?
Where is the data stored? Can the data be synchronized?

My biggest reason for using a CRM and not a paper notebook for sales data is
because I want to know when my colleague claled Customer Joe, so I can refer
to that latest call when being in touch with him again.

~~~
dalacv
This functionality is coming. It basically works with SQL Server and Oracle,
but I need to do more validation before releasing.

------
ckevinc
Interesting Application. I wonder what the overall prospects of a Windows
Desktop application are these days?

One thing I would mention, test it on different versions of Windows. CRMfly
does not appear to work post-install on Window XP -->
<https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6629489/img/CRMfly.png>

~~~
ckevinc
So, I tested this on Windows XP and you'll likely have to do a check for .NET
3.5 and have it installed before the application gets copied. As per
Devexpress:

"This may happen if you try to launch an XAF Windows Forms application at the
workstation with Windows XP or an older Windows version installed. These
systems do not have Microsoft .NET Framework installed by default. Download
and install the .NET framework of the appropriate version from the Microsoft
website (version 3.5 for Windows XP or version 2.0 for earlier Windows
versions) or upgrade to Windows Vista or Windows 7."

These things are brutal. You'll loose a possible customer the second he/she
sees a non-descript error like this.

------
tvwonline
Looks cool.

Out of curiosity, did you ever consider building it as a web app or only plan
a native windows app? Do you think there is an untapped market for native
Windows apps? I guess people will be attracted to a one off payment for a
desktop app versus a recurring subscription for a web app.

Btw, can multiple users share the same database or is it single user only?

------
aik
Very interesting. Looks great.

First question: How can I sync the data with others on my team? (ie. is it
possible?)

The questions page isn't working.

------
ptk
If a user ends up using this product heavily and then decides that they need
to migrate to a different product, how easily can they export their
information and in what format? As a user, I'm very hesitant to put all of my
information in an application if I don't know that I can easily get it back
out.

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joenathan
From the screenshots it looks promising. Even though $5 is a low bar of entry
a trial version would be nice.

------
smtm
I would remove the "20+ Skins" item from the grid on the sales page. That is
not what get people buying (I hope). This does not provide business Value and
it's the last thing I want my employees to spend time with.

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ryanhuff
I didn't see any email integration. Does that feature exist? Being able to
have your interaction history (email, phone call notes, etc) for your clients
in one place is important for many people.

------
pjmlp
Nice a desktop application.

Congratulations on that.

Regarding customization, what business really want in a CRM system is the
ability to add/remove modules (extra functionality), and scripting abilities
to drive campaigns.

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mbrameld
I do a bit of consulting for MS CRM and this looks like a straight ripoff of
the UI from 4.0.

What differentiates CRMFly from any other CRM product? Are you competing
solely on price?

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bellbind
The divs "Customers" and "Goals" have the same text. I think the price is too
low. Also, a screencast would be nice.

------
welder
It just doesn't have that HTML5 feel.

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hnriot
"Modern interface" - looks ancient to me.

~~~
hnriot
downvote for noticing the app looks like a decade old windows app?
Seriously... have you looked at salesforce.com?

