
Apple Doubles the Price of RAM Upgrade on Entry-Level 13-Inch MacBook Pro - jrwan
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/30/13-inch-macbook-pro-ram-upgrade-doubled/
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bluedino
For comparison:

Lenovo charges $149 (regularly $170) for the same upgrade in the X1

Microsoft charges $200 for the same upgrade in the Surface Pro 7

It sucks that they raised the price (and I'd love to hear the story behind
it), but it's on par with everyone else.

~~~
TwoNineA
My question to Apple (and others) would be:

Why is in 2020 a "Pro" laptop coming with only 8 GB of RAM?

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bedhesd
Apple's Sales Distortion Field. offer a must-have device without something it
clearly should have, only to unveil that feature later as a new Apple
perfection. It goes all the way back to copy and paste on the iPhone.

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andr
8GB of LPDDR3 costs about $30 retail. So they went from a 330% markup to a
660% markup. Nice.

~~~
hammock
Is it easy to install your own RAM in MacBooks these days? I used to do it all
the time 20 years ago and I know times have changed.

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Matthias247
impossible. It's soldered on the mainboard.

~~~
Scoundreller
Never say never, sometimes someone with a hot-air workstation could swap chips
for denser ones. Never an easy job.

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StillBored
Normal DIMM's have a SPD flash chip soldered to the board which identifies the
ram/timing parameters for the firmware/OS. At least on phones, to save a penny
they forgo this and frequently the RAM capacity is tied to the model via
hardcoded tables in the firmware. It wouldn't surprise me if at least on some
of these "laptop" devices with soldered on ram something similar isn't being
done.

So, at a minimum your flashing new ram parms to a SPD, or hacking the device
model number somewhere. AKA, even with a rework station its likely a lot more
than just swapping the chips, if there is sufficient PC/etc linage you might
be able to swap the SPD chip as well, otherwise its going to be more than a
mechanical heat it up, clean the pads, and drop/heat the new chip.

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pedrogpimenta
I have been a faithful Apple/macOS since 2002. Always very happy and proud.

I have now switched to Windows on my Macbook Pro and I'm liking it. It's not
as polished as macOS still, but I think (and hope) it's getting there. I don't
think I'll ever buy another Apple machine. Windows has turned around since
those times, I recommend you give it a try if you're thinking about it or
you're unhappy with how Apple has become nowadays.

I almost feel free to choose whatever machine I want next and not pay a hefty
price for it. Or pay it, if I want to, but it will be my choice, not imposed.

~~~
chrisseaton
> It's not as polished as macOS still

But isn't this the most important thing?

Yes this RAM is expensive... but it's just a few hundred dollars for something
I use every day for all my income and most of my hobbies and the alternative
is something hobbled.

~~~
huffmsa
A single 8gb stick of ddr4 is ~$30-$40 on Amazon right now.

A single stick of ddr3 is $20-30.

Apple is charging $200 for that same stick of RAM.

It likely costs them $10 or less since they buy in bulk.

Their UI isn't work paying them a 10x margin. That's fucking ridiculous.

~~~
chrisseaton
It doesn't matter what the margin is, to me.

All I care about is is it worth it to pay $200 more for a MacBook with 16 GB
rather than 8 GB. Yes it is to me, because I can get that money back and more
from the value it gives me.

I don't care how much you can buy the RAM for elsewhere, because what can I do
with that? It's not of any use to me when it's not inside a MacBook, is it?
It's irrelevant.

~~~
huffmsa
Fair enough.

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danbr
In no way am I arguing Apple is right here, but could this have anything to do
with a possible shortage in RAM due to supplychain/COVID-19?

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Matthias247
Wow. After >= 5 years of having a 8GB base model and expensive upgrades to
16GB (which are imho totally necessary today) i thought they finally improved
a bit with the 2020 model by at least reducing the upgrade cost. Seems like
they are back to 2015 again.

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Havoc
Well I guess they were right. They do have a lot of courage

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snemvalts
Probably too many people went for base + 16gb. There's not too big of a
difference between base 8th gen and upgraded 10th gen except for graphics.

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jhack
Does that mean the new 2020 Macbook Pro I bought with 16GB just became $100
more valuable?

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js2
I don't really understand who's buying the two-port 13" MBP with its 8th
generation CPU over the MBA or the four-port MBP, both with 10th gen CPUs. Now
I really don't understand it. Maybe Apple is trying to guide people toward one
of those other two models. You're at $1500 by the time you've upgrade it to
16GB. The four-port which comes with 16GB starts at $1800, but gets you a
current generation CPU which is faster (2.0 Ghz vs 1.4 Ghz), has double the
CPU, double the Thunderbolt ports, and double the memory. Seems like a no-
brainer for $300 more.

I personally just purchased a maxed-out MBA. I went with the MBA because I
prefer the form-factor and don't want the touch bar. If I'd been willing to
accept those, I would've gone with the four-port MBP. At no point did the two-
port MBP make any sense to me.

Edit: it's $200 to upgrade the RAM in the MBA as well. I wonder why the MBP
was only $100 in the first place.

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suddencoma
Could you please explain why you would choose an Apple anything over a much
more reasonably priced and specwise better PC? Not trying to be a dick, I'm a
sysadmin genuinely trying to wrap my head around it.

~~~
stevewodil
macOS, and great hardware.

I love the MacBook touchpad, no other laptop really compares in that regard.
The screen is also amazing on the MacBook Pro.

I don't like Windows, and Linux is hard to get completely stable on a laptop
(battery life, standby, webcam, touchpad gestures, etc.). Thus, macOS is the
best alternative for me.

Not everything is about price to performance ratios for me. It's about the
overall experience I have when interacting with the device. Plus, the 15"
MacBook pro I have is more than powerful enough.

~~~
macintux
I agree with all of the above, but would also like to add the ecosystem to
your list. With my iPhone, iPad, and MacBook Pro I get some really nice
integration of Keychain, Handoff, Continuity, etc.

~~~
stevewodil
Yeah, personally I use an Android phone so that stuff doesn't apply to me but
it's definitely a big part of the value prop for a lot of people as well.

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lucalee33
The price increase is actually a price correction, Apple told. The price to
upgrade RAM from 8GB to 16GB is $200 on other Macs, including the iMac and
MacBook Air, and this change is meant to keep the fee consistent. Apple says
it will honor the earlier pricing for those who purchased the cheaper RAM
upgrade before the price change went into effect.

The 13-inch MacBook Pro was refreshed last month. Though the entry-level
design remains largely unchanged, it now includes Apple’s Magic Keyboard,
which replaces the maligned butterfly keys found on previous MacBook models. i
also purchase a used mackbook pro 15 inch
[https://www.asan.com.pk/ad/79849/macbook-pro-15-inch-
early-2...](https://www.asan.com.pk/ad/79849/macbook-pro-15-inch-early-2011)
4gb ram, with installed graphic card AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB, 2 GHz Intel
Core i7

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Yetanfou
By now this amounts to stating that Luis Vuitton doubles the price of the
shiny lacquer upgrade on its entry range of handbags, i.e. more or less
irrelevant since there is no direct relation between the cost and the imagined
value of the object. Some will pay since to them the imagined value of the
product justifies the price, others won't since they consider some factors to
be less important, others to be more important in deciding the imagined value.
Those who will pay the price tend to defend the rationale behind the price
increase while those won't tend to do the opposite, i.e. the decision does not
much to move the dividing line between those who are willing to pay and those
who are not since those who value the brand will continue to do so.

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MrBuddyCasino
> there is no direct relation between the cost and the imagined value of the
> object

Try looking for an equivalent to this:

Apple MacBook Pro 16" silber, Core i7-9750H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, Radeon Pro
5500M 8GB, 3500€

Similarly specced models are either not available at all or be priced around
3000€ (eg HP ZBook Studio G5). So yes the MBP will cost a little more, but not
outrageously so, and some of it can be explained by better components.

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pyrophane
The fact that RAM cannot be upgraded, even on the 16" MBP, will keep me away
from buying another Mac laptop. It is so nice just not having to worry about
whether or not I have enough when I buy the machine.

I do wonder why so many manufacturers are moving away from user-upgradable
RAM. Perhaps the failure rate is lower or it is easier from a manufacturing
standpoint. It can't all just be to save space or to make more money by
selling marked up RAM, can it?

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Ductapemaster
Size, cost, and integration.

Size: SODIMM slots are huge. That space can be much more efficiently utilized
when put onto the main circuit board. This potentially leaves more space for
the battery, or making the laptop thinner/more aesthetic.

Cost: Supply chain optimizations drive down cost. The DDR chips they are using
are likely similar to the ones they use in other hardware (think phones). This
increases total volume, and decreases cost. Also chips aren't a finished good,
so they are saving on the cost incurred in making RAM DIMMs in the first
place.

Integration: They only have to make sure their hardware, firmware, and
software works with the RAM they supply. Decreases the testing burden. No
lookup tables to see what is compatible, and no guessing when you buy RAM that
causes the BIOS to panic. It just works, and is highly optimized for the use
case.

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jonplackett
When the new Macbook's came out, I did think they were priced a bit too
reasonably. Apple must have thought so too...

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fulafel
Anyone know if this soldered Mac RAM upgrade receipe was genuine and if it's
become harder since?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTsEJ49LLsQ&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTsEJ49LLsQ&feature=youtu.be)

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jasonv
I’m still running a 2014 MacBook Air. It’s fast enough, but I do want a more
powerful machine for video editing. Is there a Windows based machine that’s
likely to still feel as new and solid after 6+ years as an aluminum bodied
MacBook?

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michaelcampbell
Unlikely, but how much of you wanting to keep a machine for 6 years is BECAUSE
it's so expensive?

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vladvasiliu
I would say it depends on one's usage. My daily driver is a late 2013 MBP 15"
and the performance is more than enough for what I do (mostly sysadmin / light
dev for work and Lightroom / Photoshop for my own time).

As other comments have pointed out, a comparably specced PC is not that much
cheaper and would be much more of a hassle.

During those six and a half years I knew I could count on this machine and I
never had any annoyances with it. If I had gotten a PC which was unlikely to
last as long, I would have had to change it at least once, which means going
through a period of not quite broken but not quite hassle-free either. And two
PCs with the specs of my MBP would have cost more. I'm also OK with paying a
premium to not have to deal with those issues (noise, screen sometimes not
working, ports failing, keyboards dying, etc — all issues I've had with "pro-
level" computers, mostly HP).

There's also the fact that at the time a similar PC was extremely rare (maybe
the X1?). I'm talking about a computer with thunderbolt, high resolution
display, the ability to run a 4K display at 60Hz, fast SSD. Granted, all those
are much more common today.

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knodi
Stop pushing me away Apple.

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jrochkind1
Dammit, that's always the main upgrade I'd recommend to everyone.

I think I had previously noticed it was already $200 to go from 8 to 16 on
entry level new MacBook Air -- at any rate, it is now too.

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sjwright
I agree, though with ultra high speed NVMe SSDs, not having enough RAM isn’t
the performance penalty it used to be for casual computer use.

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zrm
The danger now without enough memory is that you're using the SSD for swap.
I've seen web browsers eat 16GB of memory by themselves. If you only have 8GB,
it might not be that slow anymore, but then you're going to wear out your SSD.

~~~
sjwright
Is that a realistic concern for typical usage patterns?

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vmchale
Weird, I'd think you'd want 16GB at least to make it last.

I've actually upgraded my desktop to 64GB when I had the need (data analysis
and compilers).

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Sangeppato
They're probably selling more 8th gen models with 16GB of RAM than 10th gen
models and they don't like it, as simple as that

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edhelas
Hopefully you can do your RAM upgrade by yourself. In the end it's a "Pro"
machine no ?

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layoutIfNeeded
LOL! You haven't seen the insides of recent Macs (read: since 2010), have you?
Everything is soldered to the motherboard, the battery is glued to the case,
etc. They're the pinnacle of non-repairability.

~~~
syshum
It always makes me laugh when Apple (and their fans) talk about how
Environmentally Friendly Apple is...

Reduce and Reuse is the best way to help pollution, yet Apple is known, famous
for Planned Obsolescence and non-repairability

you can not be Environmentally Friendly and maintain the only solution to any
problem is to just toss it and buy a new one

~~~
Bud
There is no "planned obsolescence" from Apple, and btw, that phrase is not
capitalized in English.

There is a popular myth among the lazy-minded about this, but the fact is that
Apple's hardware lasts a lot longer, and is intentionally supported for a lot
longer, than competing hardware. This is true for Macs as well as iOS devices.
If Apple is "planning" for anything, it's for their stuff to last a lot longer
than others' stuff, not the opposite.

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gambiting
Not everything has to be black and white. Apple can be supporting old hardware
for very long time, much longer than any other manufacturer, and yet
simulatiously be shit at making sure their hardware is actually repairable if
it does break down. Luis Rossman had a very good series of videos on this,
consider this for instance - a chip that controls USB-C charging used to be
just a regular chip made by some chinese company, you could order them by
yourself for like $0.10 each, a tray full of chips would cost you few dollars
at most. So as he runs a repair business, and those chips fail relatively
frequently for <reasons>, he could repair a dead macbook for like
$50-100(practically charging just for his time to take the chip out and put a
new one in). But Apple doesn't like that - so they went to that manufacturer
and specifially asked for that chip to be modified, so that it only works with
their machines, and asked that they are the only buyer of that chip. So now if
your macbook dies because this chip failed, you cannot replace it with a new
$0.10 chip - you need to buy a whole new $1000 motherboard from Apple.

This is not planned obsolescence - this is going out of your way to make the
repairs harder. I can understand when certain decisions are made for
engineering reasons(like say, having the ram soldered on), but this kind of
thing when Apple goes to the manufacturer and asks for a version specific only
to them so that no one else can buy it, ever - that's just anti-consumer, and
I hope the hand of the law will come on them super hard due to this.

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dis-sys
Intel wants you to only have 4 cores Apple wants you to only have 8G RAM

what a huge surprise!

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tobyhinloopen
They can double the price of the laptops and I’d still buy them. macOS is just
ahead of the competition.

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sys_64738
macOS needs that extra 8GB due to all the bloat nowadays.

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bitlax
You'll pay it.

