
Airbus thinks it has found a way to alleviate jet lag - edward
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2016/04/thatll-be-day?fsrc=scn/fb/te/bl/ed/thatllbethedayairbusthinksithasfoundawaytoalleviatejetlag
======
11thEarlOfMar
After 1.5 million lifetime miles, much of it intercontinental, it boils down
to 2 rules for me:

\- Flying East to Europe: Get out in the sun after landing and don't fall
asleep until at least 8:00 PM local time.

\- Flying West to Asia: Stay on US time. Go to sleep at 6:00 PM local time,
get up at 2:00 AM. Obviously, avoid evening appointments. If that isn't
possible, at least schedule them after you've been in country a couple of
days.

~~~
hyperpape
I'm curious: what's the idea behind waking up at 2:00 AM? Are you the sort of
person who can't easily sleep more than 8 hours?

~~~
11thEarlOfMar
Yes, I don't have a choice. My body wakes me up at 2:00 because it is past my
normal wake up time in my home time zone. I've tried going back to sleep, but
wind up just lying in bed awake.

~~~
ajmurmann
That happened to me on my last trip to Europe. Both my wife and I woke up
every night at 2:10am for the first few days. The precision of it was crazy.
However, we would take a few ambient and be right back asleep and feeling
great the next day. Amazing what twelve hours of sleep can do!

------
robbles
This "16.7M colours" stat that reporters wave around always gets me. It's just
24-bit color, doesn't mean it's "high tech". I can make you 16.7M colours with
a $3 microcontroller and LEDs from the hardware store.

What they should discuss instead is the color gamut of the LEDs and how much
of the visible light spectrum they can accurately reproduce.

~~~
rosser
They aren't writing the article for technologists and color-gamut-philes. If
anything, they're writing it for people who fly long-haul and consequently
suffer from jet lag when they have _actual business_ to conduct.

Talking about the number of colors the LEDs can produce is far more likely to
convey to that audience how this is supposed to work than delving into the
kind of details you'd probably have to read the spec sheet on the individual
diodes to find.

------
drglitch
Boeings 787s and "new cabin" 778 retrofits have this feature. It was touted by
AA and United a while back. When i actually flew in one, flight attendants
made zero use of it and just went from 100% bright to to regular "lights off,
good night" as soon as meal service was done.

~~~
cylinder
Yeah United the same on my 787 journeys. Truly the worst staff in the world
consistently.

However, 787 does have pressurization and humidity features as well and these
made a huge reduction in my jet lag over the 777 and A380

~~~
rgo
I thought A380 and 787 had equivalent cabin pressure of 6000 ft with similar
humidity features.

That said, I unfortunately did not notice any reduction in tiredness or jet
lag in either plane compared to older aircraft. But I did enjoy the lower
noise levels and higher stability of the A380, which make for a more pleasant
journey overall. I feel less worn off when I land, which means I'll take less
to recover from the flight itself, which I find more damaging then the time
zone differences.

~~~
cylinder
agree. The a380 is tremendous, especially when combined with Qantas service.

------
gingerlime
Perhaps I'm saying this because I only experienced jet lag on holidays but I
love it. I flew several times from Europe to Asia. I couldn't get much sleep
on the plane and was very tired so managed to sleep easily and the next days
were a bit hazy but fun.

On the way back it's the best part. I always end up going to bed early and
waking up early. I love it. I normally can't sleep that easily or wake up so
fresh early in the morning. I feel very productive working in the early hours
of the morning (only on jet lag). Maybe I'm odd, but I wish I could stretch my
jet lag even further, rather than get rid of it.

~~~
1_player
> I only experienced jet lag on holidays but I love it

I feel the same on slight sleep deprivation: if you usually get a good night's
sleep and one day wake up after 3/4 hours, after the groggy phase you'd feel
in a positive, relaxed mood, probably not top notch mentally but it's very
similar to having drunk a small amount of alcohol. I really enjoy it.

It doesn't work if you are already sleep deprived.

~~~
shin_lao
Actually sleep deprivation has been proven to be equivalent to being
intoxicated. I can't find the resource unfortunately.

~~~
elliotec
A quick search provided the source:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1739867/)

------
intrasight
My first work flight to Europe (about 30 years ago) I was upgraded to first
class upon getting on the plane. First class at that time was in the nose of
the 747. Business class was on the 2nd level. I walked into the nose and found
that I was the only one there. Because the nose is basically a triangle, one
of the results is that one seat is isolated all by itself. I choose that seat
and thought "cool, I'll be like Captain Kirk on the bridge". Being young (~21)
and inexperienced, jet lag was not on my mind - I was looking forward to my
time as Captain Kirk.

A few other passengers can onto the "bridge" and the a stewardess came in and
asked me if I'd like a drink. I had about two drinks before passing out. I
slept all the way to Europe and was somewhat miffed at myself. But upon
arrival I found that I did not experience any jet lag. Over a year I did the
same trip a couple more times, was not so fortunate to be placed on the
bridge, get free drinks, and be comfortable. On those trips I did experience
jet lag.

~~~
heleph
I do UK to Australia every other year. I started in my early twenties and am
now mid thirties. I've found jetlag has gotten worse as I've got older. I
hardly felt it when I was 21! I'd say it takes about three days to be sleeping
ok again now. My parents always take at least a week to recover.

Except this time. I had a six month old baby and jetlag felt completely the
same as just being at home. :)

~~~
julian_t
Definitely agree on the age thing... I've just turned 60 and it takes me days
to get fully recovered from flying LN-NY, much longer than it used to.
Melatonin and adjusting sleep times helps a bit, but not as much as I'd wish.

Not being able to sleep on planes doesn't help either. On the overnight flight
back to LN, I'm the one with the reading light on all night...

------
monk_e_boy
We always found getting blind drunk worked best. Get plastered then go to
sleep at about midnight, wake up at 10am local time with a stinking hangover
but body clock in sync.

~~~
drglitch
2-3 non-sugary drinks plus a melatonin (which i never take regularly) work
wonders. Bring good earplugs - the soft, squishy kind. And of course, try to
get that business upgrade - i found the latter to work the most :)

~~~
raverbashing
Melatonin (to me) are a bad sleep aid. It definitely helps you sleep, but it's
a weird sleep

~~~
weaksauce
You don't need much and a lot of the OTC pills are way too much and cause that
odd sleep. Iirc Some pills are 50mg of the stuff and you only need ~1mg to get
useful effects. Any more and you risk bad dreams and other weird effects.

~~~
niccaluim
Yes, I've been to a sleep specialist and they told me the same thing. Anything
over 1mg is far too much. And you really have to look to find the 1mg bottles.

~~~
weaksauce
Yeah, I found a bottle with 3mg pills that i just cut down to ~1mg or less
size. seems to work fine when I really need to get to sleep.

------
freshfey
I'm currently using a combination of Jetlag Rooster
([http://www.jetlagrooster.com/](http://www.jetlagrooster.com/)), fasting,
drinking lots of water and eating the first meal after arrival with their time
(if you arrive at 9am, you'd eat breakfast there) - this has worked very good
for both me and multiple people I've recommended it to.

I usually fast between 12-24 hours, depending on the traveling time, drink
lots and it has worked for going both to the East and coming back from it. I
wrote about it in more detail here: [http://bitehype.com/how-to-successfully-
avoid-and-hack-a-jet...](http://bitehype.com/how-to-successfully-avoid-and-
hack-a-jet-lag/)

~~~
dorfsmay
I.be seen studies, and found it works well for me, that the ideal is to only
eat once a day, at diner time of your destination. I don't always manage to do
it during travel but do it for 2 or 3 days once I've arrived.

------
matwood
The fix for jet lag is to fly in business class or better.

EDIT Not sure why the down votes. Being able to properly sleep while on a
plane is absolutely the best way to beat jet leg.

~~~
johansch
Yeah.

The problem with travel hacking (it's not really economically feasible to fly
business between Europe and US for most of us) is that you get so used to it
that every single transatlantic work trip becomes a big complicated
optimization game. Flying economy simple stops being an option.

This time the other day I lucked out via what seemed to be a Star Alliance-
wide mistake fare between Scandinavia and Seattle and a few more US cities
($700 for r/t business class!). That plus a cheap connecting flight to the Bay
area fixed it for this time.

~~~
zemvpferreira
How do you find these fares and connections? Seems like a non-trivial amount
of work to look at every possible route combination between two cities. I do
Lisbon-SF twice a month and would gladly upgrade to business at 2x cost of
economy.

~~~
johansch
Flyertalk, businessclass.{se,no,dk,co.uk}, insideflyer.de,
onemileatatime.boardingarea.com etc etc.

Plus personal crawler projects and contacts with similar-minded people.

Warning: if you don't find this fun it's probably not worth the time. Expect
to spend a lot of time chasing these deals.

It does seem to get harder over time, judging from my ~5 years in the game.
Just a few years ago there were gaping holes in the system, allowing anyone to
buy 100k miles from US Airways for $1200 and then spend them on quite on e.g.
a 90k mile (or was it 110k?) First class roundtrips Europe/NA-Asia with e.g.
ANA, Asiana iirc.

~~~
zemvpferreira
Thanks. It does sound easier to do as a hobby (with flexible routes and
schedules) than as a business traveller.

~~~
johansch
By the way, for your situation - I am not very familiar with good routes out
of Portugal/Spain - but Norwegian's normal paid premium fares out of
Oslo/Stockholm/London to Oakland have been a decent fallback for me for when I
can't find a decent "hacked trip". It may work for you via a connection
to/from e.g. London.

Pro:

\- Decent almost business class for $1400 USD roundtrip

\- You can buy single trips for 50% of the roundtrip cost

Con:

\- Their irregular ops handling is disastrous. They use a small fleet of 787s
for transatlantic flights, with zero spare capacity, so when a plane breaks
somehow you basically have to wait for them to repair it. For that reason I
avoid them on trips into the US (for planned meetings there) but sometimes use
them on the way back.

~~~
zemvpferreira
Thanks! My regular route is Lisbon -> Amsterdam -> San Francisco with KLM.
It's 5 am flight with a 50 minute connection in AMS, but Schiphol is a
wonderful airport, the dutch very helpful, and I quite like the old airplanes
they use on this route. I can usually find a ticket for $700, too.

------
Aperson4321
With Virtual Reality in mind I feel that I should mention that people have
noticed that VR can mess with peoples day and night cycle perception.

When I listen to audio books I often use my D2 Oculus rift VR headseat and
explore like a tourist cool looking custom minecraft maps with the MineCrift
mod, I have experiences some confusion after being in a day time VR world and
taking off the VR headseat and seeing that it is night time in real life, and
the opposite with night time VR scenes at day time IRL. The ability of high
quality VR to mess with the visual senses of people is really powerfull and
not restricted to entertainment.

------
mazumdar
one of the things that make you feel tired after long flights is noise
pollution. we don't realize it because it's something we expect during flights
but our mind and body is essentially sitting through hours of loud humming
that takes a toll on us.

The solution for me is good noise canceling headphones. If you fly often,
invest in a good pair and it will do wonders for you. It has for me.

~~~
chockablock
Agreed on noise fatigue. Good -30dB earplugs (worn under headphones if nec),
even while sleeping, make me land much better rested (and are ~$0).

Doesn't help with jetlag itself (I.e. the mismatch btw astronomic and
biological time), but still a big deal.

------
tgb
Doesn't the new Boeing have this feature as well? I remember hearing about it
when I toured the factory. (Which if an excellent tour you should check out if
you're in Seattle area.)

~~~
ajpgrealish
Yes, the Dreamliners have this. It's certainly a comfortable plane but I'm not
sure how much difference the lights make on jet lag.

~~~
jamesblonde
I flew on one from Oakland to Stockholm (return) last week. It worked great.
The windows are kind amazing - they tint themselves according to conditions.
The big disadvantage on the way over northern Greenland was that I couldn't
see properly out the window, when there were beautiful clear skies. I always
love seeing the vast open expanses and glacial valleys on Greenland.

~~~
johansch
I was so disappointed by those electronically dimmable windows in the 787.

When it's automatically controlled by the central system/crew it's fine, but
when you want to manipulate them yourself the ~30 second delay from button
press to actual change is quite annoying, and you wish for the old style
mechanical sliders instead.

------
ryanmarsh
> Airbus, as of last month, reports having received 777 orders for the
> aircraft

Wait is that a typo or a dig at Boeing?

~~~
Xixi
Wikipedia has 777 on order, so I guess it's not a typo. Two others sources
give 764 [1] and 780 [2] orders, respectively.

Given that Air France recently converted outstanding orders for the A380 to
three A350, that would make 777 as of last month consistent with 780 as of
today.

This 780 figure is also including two orders for a total of 16 A350-800, which
will never be built. So it is consistent with the 764 figure that do not
include these A350-800.

Conclusion: not a typo.

[1]
[https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/orders](https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbproduction/orders)

[2] [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tSkBafqSz-
xEdM1VLbQy...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tSkBafqSz-
xEdM1VLbQyQN1KF4CKf7nGE-Du645YsPo/pub?gid=7#)

Edit: added the AF recent order, and the A350-800 adjustment.

------
uiorew
Since this came up in a course recently, apparently jet lag is (at least
partially) caused by:

1\. Your circadian rhythm [1] being out of sync. In a nutshell, a reasonable
amount of internal biology is synchronized to the time of day to improve
efficiency. If your activity isn't in sync with what your 'internal clock' is
expecting, you experience jet lag.

2\. A limited ability for the clock to adjust to a new timezone. The direction
of adjustment is encoded by a phase response curve [2] and is affected by
exposure to light -- practically nothing else can shift it.

11thEarlOfMar has the right idea -- if you can avoid light exposure entirely,
your clock won't shift and you won't be jetlagged. Otherwise, large doses of
light at the right times of day are (apparently) the best cure.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Humans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm#Humans)

[2]:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_response_curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_response_curve)

~~~
chockablock
Timing of eating is also an input to circadian rhythm (at least in rats)--I'll
try to find the cite.

~~~
uiorew
Here's [1] what appears to be a good one (or, at least, it has some citations
to other papers which might be better) -- the first section after the abstract
is an intro to circadian rhythms, including references to food zeitgebers in
rats, rabbits and adorable hamsters. IIRC there doesn't appear to be a strong
effect in humans, but I'm slacking off as is and won't be digging up a
reference for that XD

[1]:
[http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/274/6/R1751.short](http://ajpregu.physiology.org/content/274/6/R1751.short)

------
InTheArena
This is airbus's attempt to come up with hype to fight the real advantages of
the 787, 350 and CRFP - most notably greater pressure and higher humidity. I'm
in a much better state coming off a 787 in economy plus then a 380 in business
(assuming that I don't sleep on both). Boeing introduced the lights on their
sky interior a few years ago, and it didn't really make a difference.

~~~
samsonradu
Interesting, didnt know why I felt like shit on a 380 after a 12h flight. Had
a terrible headache and a sore throat. Is sitting at the first floor even
worse? It was also very cold but not sure if related. Boeing felt a bit
different (better) over the same distance but I thought it was just me

~~~
monort
Do you drink a lot of caffeine at home? I was always getting headaches on a
long flights before realizing that it was a caffeine withdrawal.

~~~
samsonradu
I do but my headaches then was due to the cabin pressure + air conditioning I
believe. I was drinking coffee on the plane too so..

------
leoedin
If this works, then why does jet lag often persist for days after arriving at
your destination? The light is obviously in sync with local time there, but it
still takes a few days for your body to adjust.

~~~
johnm1019
TLDR; It doesn't fix jetlag but it might get you started on the right path one
"day" cycle sooner.

There isn't "one simple trick" and not have jet lag. Everyone will have jetlag
after going through a large time change. Your body can only accomodate so
quickly depending on the magnitude of the change. IME people recover 0.5-2
hours of time change a day. So if you go through a change, it will take
anywhere from 3-12 days to fully recover. You don't even realize it until
you've been somewhere for a while and one day you wake up and realize you are
fully rested for the first time in a week (even though the other days felt
basically fine).

------
minikites
We already know how to beat jet lag, fasting, then eating at the new time you
want breakfast to be: [http://harpers.org/blog/2012/03/the-empty-stomach-
fasting-to...](http://harpers.org/blog/2012/03/the-empty-stomach-fasting-to-
beat-jet-lag/)

------
matznerd
To combat jet lag, try drinking a ton of water. I'm talking liters of water, I
usually will consume a minimum of 3 liters of water while flying, in addition
to water I drink before and after the flight. I also take at least 200mg of
CoQ10/Ubiquinol each hour of the flight, in addition to extra before and after
the flight. It seems to help a lot.

~~~
jessaustin
I hope you're on an aisle seat!

------
kijin
This might work on short flights, but short flights generally don't give us
serious jet lag.

On long flights (e.g. London to San Francisco), I don't think any amount of
fancy lighting will be able to compensate for the fact that your day has
suddenly become 32 hours long and you've been awake for 24 of them.

Do you suddenly feel refreshed if you see another sunrise (whether real or
simulated) after having been awake for 24 hours straight? Not me... at least
not since my early 20s.

~~~
mikeash
Jet lag isn't about feeling tired after being awake for 24 hours straight, and
defeating it wouldn't mean that you arrive at your destination wide awake
despite having had no sleep for a full day. Jet lag is the _persistent_ desync
between your body's internal clock and the sun's actual position, which lasts
for several days after a rapid trip across many time zones. It's not about
getting to your destination feeling refreshed, but waking up the next morning
without feeling like it's time for bed.

------
happytrails
This reads like an advertisement.

------
tim333
Hmm - having mucked about with a variety of lighting it's only seems mildly
effective for reducing jet lag. The article says they are fitting fancy
coloured leds that they hope will help, not as far as I can see that they've
actually tried it and found it effective. I find melatonin and ambien reduce
the jet lag effects about 50% but that's a fair bit more hard core than some
LEDs.

------
washadjeffmad
I take a small (0.2-0.4mg) dose of melatonin about 5 hours before the time I
want to 'get sleepy' when travelling or returning. After a day or two of doing
this, as well as getting plenty of daytime sunshine, I'm usually adjusted well
enough not to notice any jet lag.

------
daveguy
And even if they haven't the placebo effect is a real effect, so it'll be
great marketing either way.

------
jsprogrammer
>Throw in an air management system that renews the air every two minutes while
helping regulate cabin temperature, and sitting onboard an A350 may be less
harsh on your body than hanging out at home.

Even taking into account the extra radiation exposure?

------
keithgabryelski
seems like this would work out well except for every flight i've been on there
has been at least one person unwilling to close their damn window shade.

