
A $33K robot barista serves 120 cups of coffee an hour - jelliclesfarm
https://www.businessinsider.com/robot-barista-reveals-dangerous-rise-of-automation-2018-5
======
arnaudsm
This is literally a $200 coffee vending machine with a $25,000$ arm to move
the cup. Except the Wow effect, I don't see the value of this.

This is a Emperor's New Clothes situation. No one dares to say how dumb this
is, in fear of passing for a Luddite

~~~
dalbasal
A coffee shop is 33% drinks and snacks, 33% theatre and experience and 33%
location and/or pleasant lounging space and such.

Maybe at the best end, a barista makes a better cuppa than a good machine but
most of the places near where I am now wouldn't pass a blind test Vs the
automated coffee machine at my office.

Automated coffee-making exist, and works just fine.

Still, €1 vending machines haven't killed the €3 coffee shops/stands/trucks.
Empirically, people want the (subjective) experience, not cheap coffee.

This is a novel, theatrical way of doing the experience.

Besides those relatively banal points... it's kind of cool that they're
putting robotic arms into public-facing consumer land. Not sure it leads
anywhere, but I'd get a cuppa and watch it work as I sip.

~~~
notahacker
This.

I keep making the point every time it gets raised in a "the robots are coming
for our jobs" thread, but we had the technology to vend fast food to people
putting coins in slots before we had McDonalds etc, whose laser focus on
margins proved the business case for counter staff and killed off most of the
Automats. Needless to say, the perception of a pleasant coffee shop offering
good service worth paying extra for and superior quality coffee is more
intrinsically linked to its staff than the fast food industry.

In terms of theatrics and novelty this super-expensive machine is a massive
improvement on the vending machine and can probably justify a $3 coffee
instead of a $1 coffee, but it isn't going to kill the traditional coffee shop
either, because the novelty is directly proportional to how rare they are....

~~~
MagnumOpus
> McDonalds etc, whose laser focus on margins proved the business case for
> counter staff and killed off most of the Automats

McDonalds is returning to vending machines - not for the burger manufacturing,
but for the order generation and payment:

[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-
now/2018/06/07/mc...](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-
now/2018/06/07/mcdonalds-add-kiosks-citing-better-sales-over-face-face-
orders/681196002/)

~~~
notahacker
in selected stores, in addition to the staff, some of whom McDonalds has
concluded it makes financial sense to redeploy providing table service. And
this despite McDonalds being pretty much the extreme outlier in the food
industry for perceptions of its staff being charmless! Your article also
points to a poll that suggests the majority of people are substantially less
likely to buy from a kiosk-only restaurant, which I'm sure McDonalds has more
scientific data on...

------
ginko
So it's a robot arm that operates a set of automatic espresso machines. Why is
the arm even necessary? If you do away with that you just have a coffee
vending machine which you can find at every train station since forever.

~~~
switz
A vending machine doesn't raise $7MM in funding.

~~~
ginko
Then they should have gone all-out with a fully animatronic barista. Hipster
beard, tattoos and all.

~~~
adrianN
Not for the MVP. Those are clearly post IPO features.

~~~
sgt
And those are in any case premium extras. Want a regular beard? $25/mo
Portland-grade hipster beard? $59/mo.

~~~
astura
Does that include the man bun?

------
dastx
I actually used one of these when I visited San Francisco a couple of years
back (I think it was at an AMC IMAX?). As everyone has already said, this is a
coffee machine with a $25,000 arm that moves the cup. I was super excited when
I saw it and my inner kid came and met my inner coffee love. After I paid for
the coffee, I was super disappointed that it simply moved the cup and nothing
else. I don't know what I was expecting but I sure as hell was extremely
disappointed.

~~~
anonfunction
Yeah I used it there as well, it's at The Metreon mall. I was also surprised
they had to have an employee next to the thing in case it breaks.

~~~
stackola
So instead of having one person and one coffee machine, we now have one
person, one coffee machine and a robot arm.

The future truly is now.

~~~
duskwuff
"The ideal flight crew is one pilot and one dog. The pilot is there to feed
the dog. The dog is there to bite the pilot if he touches anything."

------
kmlx
i agree with the other comments that this "robot" is mostly a gimmick.

but it really pains me to only see headlines like "automation is killing jobs"
from the west. meanwhile in japan they have a long tradition of replacing jobs
with robots. their society is very happy about it, which lead to massive
industries focusing mainly/only on automation.

so my multi-part question is: why is the west scared of automation? does it
have to do with a lack of knowledge, or is it because of a different attitude
towards jobs than in japan? why does it seem like western societies care more
about truck drivers and baristas than providing better jobs?

~~~
paganel
From half the world away the Japanese society looks anything but “happy” to
me: long working hours for those that do manage to get a stable job, women
still seen as housewives first, higher proportion of suicides compared to the
rest of the world etc.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
Suicide rates in Japan aren't much higher than the United States:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)

------
edoo
Technology amplifies human ability. A washing machine is a robot. A circuit
board is a robot. It allows humans to get more done with less. That is
awesome. The real problem comes when society is structured to siphon those
gains away from the population. This is done through various isms.

------
pornel
> coffee places don't keep a record of every customer's past drink order — but
> you can do all this with robotics

Does everything have to come with gratuitous surveillance?

~~~
scotty79
Yeah, if you want people to know stuff about you, you need to let them know
stuff about you.

Nosey and caring is the same thing when it comes to how much information you
need to posess. The difference is how you use it.

~~~
rightbyte
The clerk at Starbucks wont profile me for ads on Facebook even if she will
learn what I usually order, though.

~~~
elindbe2
I just got an idea for a new startup...

------
edf13
I like this... and agree with Pete - there is no need for a human to stand and
make a basic product for 10 hours a day when a robot can do it.

BUT.... there will always be a need for quality service and people will pay
extra for that.

Robots for the quick, fast food/drink. People for the more relaxed service -
which of course will cost more.

~~~
ashelmire
The issue is that these automated drinks generally suck for whatever reason,
and the machines break often. And you can’t really customize everything or
change things quickly (imagine building a machine with only space for milk and
half and half before the soy milk and almond milk craze hit). Oh and could you
add a shot of espresso and some whipped cream?

We’ve had coffee machines for decades. A robotic arm to serve them is not
useful for us.

~~~
bhouston
A robot arm that is generic is actually quite useful. Because you can build
stuff around it that it can use. You want more milk types, you just add more
milk nozzles that it can access, and these are just containers or cheep non-
moving things.

The generic robot arm is generic but expensive.

I saw this with incredibly expensive robotic arms on a recent cruise. It was
actually very very flexible -- all options were external to the arm, and
cheap:

[https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/bionic-...](https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/bionic-
bar)

It was a very popular bar on the cruise ship in terms of drinks sold -- but it
was also in a prime location. The cruise ship properly understood that these
"bionic bar" robots were a performance.

~~~
ashelmire
That's pretty cool. Apparently the bionic bar costs about 100,000 euros and
still requires a human for constant attention. It also appears that they
charge 1 euro per cocktail that it makes even when you buy the machine?
[https://www.makrshakr.com/makr-shakr-3-0/](https://www.makrshakr.com/makr-
shakr-3-0/)

I like the idea, but that's a lot of up-front expense and still requires
humans, electricity, repair, and lacks customizability and speed. If they can
bring the cost down it seems like a viable option. Except... how do you not
serve people who are already intoxicated? How do you check id (make sure they
aren't scanning a friends)? And I guess you aren't building loyalty, which
bartenders often do.

------
pliftkl
We have Briggo[1] here in Austin. The one I used is in a private large office
building, and it's actually really convenient, since I'll generally order by
app from the parking lot and be able to pick it up when I walk in. I think the
coffee is a lot better than the normal "Coffee from the multigallon thermos in
the cafeteria". I've heard that the biggest part of their R&D investment
wasn't actually in the arm, but rather in figuring out how to get the machine
to do as much of its own maintenance as possible. They could use more
investment in their mobile app, which they've redesigned a couple times but
which is still horrible.

[1] [https://briggo.com/](https://briggo.com/)

------
srehnborg
The underrated aspect of this is on-demand app ordering.

Example - You're walking to work or your next meeting in SF. Cafe X is on the
way. Two blocks ahead, you order your drink. As you walk by, you punch in your
code and go on with your day.

The interaction is seamless and simple.

Great product!

------
zaroth
There was a better article about Cafe X a few weeks ago on the front page
where it was acknowledged by the creators that this is _performance art_ and
not actually a “$33K robot barista”.

~~~
bhouston
It is a performance, definitely. But that is what the Starbucks coffee
experience is. It is a performance. That is why those machines look nice, they
make a lot of sounds, and they use a lot of different equipment.

That is their differentiator. There is tons of ways they could have automated
that but they haven't because they need that performance, it is partially what
you are paying for. If you disagree, you are misunderstanding the reason
Starbucks had succeeded.

------
thenanyu
There’s one outside a movie theater in SF. I use it every time. It’s fun and
fast. The coffee tastes good and the UX is easy. The arm is choreographed and
does cute dances.

------
yumraj
I think we'll be better off as a society if we spend time and resources into
automating the jobs that are currently done by humans in dangerous and
hazardous situations, rather than automating the job of coffee or pizza making
just because _" As we see the rising costs of labor, it just makes sense"_
which employ a large number of unskilled/semi-skilled labor.

------
lawlessone
"I'll pay twice that if they can also make the arm push a boulder up a hill
and have it fall back down again" \- VCs probably.

------
mruts
People are calling this dumb, but it's a commercial robotics arm that could
potentially go years without maintenance. A quick google search indicates that
a barista costs $19,000/year. So it's not hard to imagine a world in which
it's profitable.

Also it's cool to look at, so you might get some initial extra revenue in
that.

------
ElijahLynn
Better link w/video (that BI links to as source) is
[https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/08/this-25000-robot-wants-to-
pu...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/08/this-25000-robot-wants-to-put-your-
starbucks-barista-out-of-business.html).

------
jelliclesfarm
P.S: it’s $25k arm. I don’t know why the cut and paste made it $33k. Can a mod
fix it? I think..perhaps it’s my mistake?

------
Uninen
These would be good in bars and clubs for serving beer. The long beer queues
are the worst.

Full disclosure: I'm a Finn.

~~~
hwillis
Problem with that is all about ordering. Verbally ordering is very efficient
and the bartender can track you down if you move or try not to pay, and can
remember your face and tab. Not easy or reliable for a robot, and a human will
be able to take advantage of it. Humans can also take advantage of automated
checkout machines in stores, but the trust isn't there in a bar yet.

There are alternatives like ordering on a tablet, but would get convoluted and
awkward fast.

~~~
koala_man
For beer specifically, I don't think a tablet menu is a problem, and you can
easily have people swipe their card immediately.

The problem I see with this is more the alcohol related ones like inability to
ID or to cut off someone who's had too much.

------
js2
This just makes me sad. I’ve only been to Italy once and maybe it was the
experience as much as anything else, but I swear I’ve never had coffee as good
as when I was there. Wandering into a random cafe in the morning with my
family, ordering an espresso and a pastry, stupidly ordering a latte that one
time for my daughter and getting a glass of milk (oh right, cafe latte)... god
if it had been a robot instead of a human being ... well those morning coffees
are one of my favorite memories.

> "It's also torture for the customer. Baristas get orders wrong, drink
> quality is wildly inconsistent, and coffee places don't keep a record of
> every customer's past drink order — but you can do all this with robotics."

A while back I went to one of those restaurants where you order off a touch
screen and then the food gets brought out to you. You barely interact with the
server. I hated it.

Maybe I’m a sentimental old fool, but when I’m going out to eat, I do not
welcome our new robot overlords. :-(

p.s. And I say all this as someone who’s been called a misanthrope.

This just makes me sad.

~~~
MrBuddyCasino
> maybe it was the experience as much as anything else, but I swear I’ve never
> had coffee as good as when I was there

It really is better. Espressi are never sour, while they usually are in
Germany. I don't understand it either. Maybe there are some things capitalism
can't fix, one of those is culture.

~~~
chillacy
I don’t understand the conundrum, markets give people what they want. You
could start a legit Italian coffee business and if not enough people are
willing to pay then you’ll go out of business.

~~~
js2
At risk of over generalizing, I think some of it is cultural and Americans
just don’t care about their coffee like Italians do. So maybe what I’m sad
about is that there’s no market here for the coffee experience I enjoyed in
Italy.

------
mateo1
Those people don't seem to get how the service industry is about receiving a
service from people. Getting your coffee serviced by a human is a matter of
status, not convenience and efficiency. If you want efficiency you have
instant coffee and venting machines.

~~~
detaro
For at least some part of people going to coffee shops (especially when
getting coffee "on the way" somewhere) the "status" they want is "convenient,
tasty coffee", which neither instant coffee nor the typical vending machine
provide.

------
andymoe
Unfortunately they need to improve the product they serve. It’s not very good
coffee though it is cheaper (but not faster when busy) than the Starbucks next
door to the one I’ve been too. You also have to give the robot your phone
number to get the coffee out.

------
anonfunction
It would be much more impressive if the robot actually served 120 cups of
coffee an hour, to paying customers, rather than it's maximum output.

This robot arm is nothing more than a gimmick, it simply moves a cup from
under the actual coffee machine to the customer.

------
syntaxing
I see these multiple DOF arms (5 for this one?) for many of these
designs...but I still do not get why none of them use SCARA. Easier to
program, more rigid, and much more cost effective. The own downside is that it
doesn't look fancy.

------
arkitaip
"The idea of humans making coffee for 10 hours a day is as crazy in 2018 as a
tollbooth collector sitting in a metal box on a freeway," Calacanis told CNBC.

\-----

Ah, bless his heart, he's doing people a favor by freeing them from not having
a job.

------
jelliclesfarm
Personally, I wish it wasn’t an arm and it would have been better theatre had
it been tentacles. Maybe a gantry design.

Would have been possible to have more options for the coffee with even better
theatre.

Cthulhu Coffee.

------
hamilyon2
Everyone here mention failed blind tests between expensive and cheap espresso
machines. I suspect something here, but will not jump to conclusions. Are
there any sources?

------
taurath
I feel like if this ever gets popular, people will just start ordering
outlandishly complicated drinks that the robot can’t handle.

~~~
koala_man
What? Why?

~~~
taurath
Because a ton of people, myself included, like having people making coffee in
coffee shops!

~~~
taurath
To add - its one of the few places that are for "people" first and foremost
without also involving alcohol.

------
aboutruby
I tried it in San Francisco and it was quite good. Pretty rare to find good
espressos there.

------
snarfy
When all the jobs are replaced by robots there will be nobody to buy the
products.

------
majewsky
I want one of these for our office, just because of novelty. :)

~~~
eloisant
It's definitely 100% novelty, because the coffee is made by a completely
automated machine (like you might already have in your office) and that
robotic arm is just moving the cup of coffee from the coffee machine to a
counter.

Surely the headline would be less catchy if it says "trendy coffee shops to
replace baristas with vending machines"

