
U.S. Students Rank Worst in New Sleep Study - edtechdev
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/09/u-s-students-rank-worst-in-new-sleep-study/#ixzz2T56cj0aZ
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suprasanna
As a University student in the States, I can say that, other than academics
themselves, this is mostly propagated by a "I slept fewer hours than you so
clearly I work harder look at me and feel bad I'm so stressed kbye" mindset. I
have seen many times people waiting to tweet or Facebook something right
before bed to prove to the world (and elicit responses) that they were up till
an ungodly hour.

It's similar to what happens in adulthood when everyone compares how "busy"
they are 24/7 and display it as if it's a badge of pride.

~~~
wlesieutre
David Hansson (of Ruby on Rails) wrote about this five years ago from a
software developer's perspective, and I saw a ton of it in college. It's not
just in science/technology majors either, friends in things like education
were bragging about all nighters they pulled to get papers done just as much
as the compsci students.

Not much has changed, and I have no idea what could be done about this
problem. With a few exceptions, everyone who does this could be working much
more effectively if they managed their time better and got enough sleep, but
there's resistance to doing that because it's considered "normal" to be in the
computer lab until 2 AM. And if you leave a 9 it's because everyone else is
more dedicated than you are.

It's almost like a more freeform version of a 9-5 workday with people judging
you based on how much time you put in, except there aren't any limitations on
how long you can spend. And it's friends and peers you're trying to impress
instead of your boss. That obsession with trying to impress friends by working
all night seems tightly tied to the rise of social networking sites.

[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1006-sleep-deprivation-is-
not...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1006-sleep-deprivation-is-not-a-badge-
of-honor)

~~~
up_and_up
> I have no idea what could be done about this problem

Um, how about judging people based on the quality and quantity of
work/projects/whatever they produce, rather then what times of the day and for
how long their rear ends are sitting at 'work'?

Destination > Journey ?

~~~
wlesieutre
Obviously, but try telling that to all of the world's office managers. Or try
convincing college students that staying up all night to get a project done
isn't going to impress anyone. Knowing what to fix doesn't mean you can
implement it easily.

~~~
up_and_up
> Or try convincing college students that staying up all night to get a
> project done isn't going to impress anyone

Who cares fundamentally what other students/peers are doing? Focus on
yourself, your own goals/aspirations, go out and achieve it. Stop worrying
about what other people think or do.

~~~
wlesieutre
That's a solution for an individual person, not the problem as a whole. _I_
don't do it, but you need to convince millions of people that staying up late
is a actually problem, and isn't worth doing to impress people.

It's like saying "I've got an easy solution to HIV. Just have all the HIV+
people stop having sex or sharing needles and it'll be gone in a generation."
It might be true, but you can't just wish it into happening.

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icegreentea
Before everyone goes on about college life, the study was done on elementary
and middle school students. Not to say that college life and university
students aren't sleep deprived. But I feel like the exact result being
reported here is even more worrisome. This isn't going sleep deprived while
you're (hopefully) adding the academic final touches to your more or less
developed brain, this is going sleep deprived while your brain is still coming
together.

While the article tries to end on a happy note ("Don't worry! There won't be
any permanent damage... if there hasn't been any permanent damage"), I feel
that it's still worrisome.

~~~
pmcg
> "Don't worry! There won't be any permanent damage..."

What I don't understand is how we can know that?

------
pocketstar
"The results of the new comparison have not been published in a peer-reviewed
journal." I would read this article with a grain of salt. Although as a
university student I can attest to seeing myself and my peers sleep deprived.
I make sure I get the sleep I need now.

~~~
mc-lovin
But they are working through the night to prepare the article for submission.

------
SatvikBeri
There's definitely a status component to it. In the US we tend to glamorize
working ridiculous hours, not sleeping, and just generally being busy.

There was also the "I never study" crowd, who claimed they coasted by
regardless of how much work they actually did or didn't do. For some reason
both these groups were/are considered cool and high-status.

When I was in college I tended to study a fairly average amount and took an
average course load. I got good grades by virtue of good study habits-most of
my study time was spent wide awake and highly focused without internet or
distractions. If I got tired/hungry I would sleep or eat, not force myself. I
only pulled one "all-nighter" in college, and that was to read a Harry Potter
book the night it was released so that I wouldn't see any spoilers.

By only studying when I was in optimal condition, it was much easier for me to
retain new material. However, this gave me nothing to complain or brag about,
so I quickly learned to act like I was always busy and sleep-deprived, which
significantly improved my social life. C'est la vie.

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majurg
As a current student, I see sleep deprivation in all of my peers. Staying up
late is seen as a 'cool' thing for people my age and younger, and I hear
stories of kids as young as middle school going to sleep well after midnight
on weeknights.

Since college, I have gone to sleep earlier, just so I can stay functional for
work and classes; I don't know how these other people do it.

~~~
rohansingh
I like staying up late. Even on weekdays, I'm usually up until 1 AM or so. On
weekends in college, I recall often seeing the sun come up during the summer.

I thought that was fun, but never thought of it as cool. And while I like
staying up late, I really don't like being sleep-deprived.

I really despise the culture wherein sleep deprivation is a badge of honor.
And I hate the implicit pressure I feel when I am working with people who wear
it as such. It's hard to cite studies showing decreased overall performance
when you're confronted with, "I've only gotten 15 hours of sleep all week
since I've been working so hard!"

I don't know what to do about it though.

~~~
err_badprocrast
I used to enjoy sleep deprivation. In hindsight, that was me self-treating
depression.

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zachlatta
Our educational system promotes lack of sleep and needs to be changed. I'm
currently a freshman in high school, but have been consistently getting 3-4
hours of sleep each night. School doesn't give us enough time for
extracurriculars during the day so they end up eating into the night.

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yolesaber
I would be interested in seeing the average school starting times for these
countries. I always thought it was ludicrous that high schools had students
waking up at 6:30am to get to a 7:15 am math class (Anecdotal evidence: this
was my HS schedule junior year).

~~~
yareally
My elementary school (K to 5th grade) was 8:35am I think, middle school
(6th-8th) was 9:05am and high school was 7:55am. Times were mostly stagnated
though I think for the bus schedule. Certain AP courses (such as AP Chemistry)
started an hour earlier, but that was the only exception. Not sure how they
decided who should go to school first though. That has always made me curious.

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technoslut
I'm sure that lack of exercise is also playing a role in this though it was
not mentioned. Many kids are quite comfortable sitting at home on the
computer, playing online games and instant messaging instead of leaving the
house.

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grimman
Seems fairly obvious to me that cramming and sleeping poorly will lead to the
same bad results as any long term code crunch would have.

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GigabyteCoin
I wonder if the excessive levels of alcohol consumption in U.S. universities
correlates to their lack of a good sleep as well?

~~~
Bootvis
I can't imagine that US students drink significantly more than the average
Dutch student. Maybe more but not something like 20% more.

Edit: what I meant: students drinking much seems to be universal. Pretty sure
that German and Belgium students do the same. International students also
party often but that might purely be because they are abroad.

~~~
consz
Is there the same sort of binge drinking culture there as in the US, though?
Anecdotally, more than half my friends in college would get blackout every
single Friday and Saturday (in addition to 4-5 drinks during each weekday) --
it was severe enough that they always got DTs whenever they tried to take a
break for midterm/finals studying.

~~~
Bootvis
I never really mingled with the worst of them but this not something that many
students do. Drinking in the weekends and on weekdays sure but regularly
getting a delirium tremens (if that's what you mean with DT) made me sit up in
my chair.

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andyzweb
I've been sleeping poorly for the past 4-5 years. I'm trying to change that
over the next three months.

