
Latest Vision for Las Vegas - A Downtown Vibe - pg
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/arts/design/latest-vision-for-las-vegas-a-downtown-ambience.html?pagewanted=all
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discardorama
I am in Vegas right now, and I can tell you: most nerds I know would die in
this heat. Turn your oven on and stick your head into it: that's what it feels
like.

I remember when I first visited San Francisco: I felt like it was home. Right
then I decided that I'd move there some day. But Vegas doesn't feel that way.
The entire city seems like a mirage: from the fake Eiffel Tower to the fake
Statue of Liberty, it all seems so superficial. For the locals' sake I hope
Hsieh can pull it off, but I'm skeptical.

~~~
Amadou
All that fakery is the strip - the strip is for tourists, not locals.

~~~
gonzo
True dat

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gonzo
Like discardorama, I am in Vegas right now. Possibly unlike discardorama, I
was born and raised in this town.

Note: I don't live here now. I left in 1986 to go to work at Convex in Dallas,
and now live in Austin. (after a 7 year break from the VC-funded madness when
I lived in Hawaii 2004-2011.)

But while here, I'm working outside all day, every day. (Effecting a
repossession of some heavy equipment for my father, and fixing said equipment
so it can be transported. Said equipment is the remaining artifacts of what
was a 50 year-old water well drilling business located in Las Vegas.)

Yes, in the 115F heat, and I'm 51, and have survived both an ascending aortic
dissection and an associated MI.

It hasn't killed me yet.

The problem with Las Vegas isn't the heat. The problems are: lack of tech
structure (why I left), and water. There simply will not be enough water to
support a city of any size here.

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amccloud
Fun picture taken tonight downtown on Freemont East during First Friday:
[http://cl.ly/image/2U3m2I0p2O0v](http://cl.ly/image/2U3m2I0p2O0v)

I've come to realize Vegas is facing a problem with talent in tech. Plenty of
companies are looking to hire, but there is not much selection. I guess that
makes it a great place to move. Low cost of living and a sellers market.

~~~
lnanek2
Just be prepared for low rates. You can't demand what you can on the coasts.
Low cost of living means low salaries. Companies are often willing to expense
living and travel, though.

~~~
k-mcgrady
If it's a choice between low cost of living/low salary and high cost of
living/high salary do you happen to have any figures which show which one
actually works out as more profitable?

~~~
Amadou
My thinking is that a good job with pay appropriate to the area is better in a
high-cost area than in a low-cost area. The reason being is that part of your
pay goes towards housing which eventually means a mortgage.

Once you decide to retire you can cash out that mortgage. A modest house in
the bay area is still a million dollar house. A modest house in vegas is a
$200K house. $1M in hand gives you a lot more flexibility than $200K.

~~~
rdl
Also, an iPod or other globally-priced goods are cheap in high-cost high-wage
areas, expensive in low-cost low-wage areas. Student loans, etc. are like
iPods.

I think the ideal is to work in a high-wage high-cost area early on your
career, to build up a high salary history and cover some of your fixed costs
(student loans, etc.), while not incurring large recurring high costs (buying
a house). Then, relocate to a low-cost low-wage area while working remotely
for a high percentage of your original salary.

A $150k/yr Silicon Valley salary that became $110k/yr to telecommute from a
low-cost, low-tax, low-wage area would be awesome buying power.

A lot of people do this with fixed retirement income (pensions, or even social
security) -- retire to a low cost area.

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moron4hire
Seems like they've tried this before with City Center--though it might not be
a gigantic construction job--but it seems to want to ignore the fundamental
culture of Las Vegas. Vegas is a unique city and even the people who live
there aren't there because they want a regular city (think about the type of
person to become a doctor or teacher in a town like that). Freemont is already
Vegas' "downtown"; that it doesn't look like other cities' downtowns is not a
problem.

~~~
andrewljohnson
CityCenter heavily contrasted with Hsieh's plan in the text of the article.

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jplewicke
There are some great Photoshopped photos showing how much more fun the Las
Vegas strip would be with narrower, pedestrian-friendly streets:

[http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.com/2011/07/las-vegas-
strip-...](http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.com/2011/07/las-vegas-strip-i.html)
[http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.com/2011/07/las-vegas-
strip-...](http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.com/2011/07/las-vegas-strip-
ii.html)

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mylons
This seems really cool, but what about Vegas' sustainability issues? Isn't
everything still imported( especially water ), or does this project also
address that?

~~~
Amadou
FWIW, SoCal imports vastly more water than Vegas does. Practically all the
agriculture in SoCal would disappear without the imported water.

~~~
ihaveajob
The city of Los Angeles has 6 times more people than Vegas, without counting
the metro area, the OC and San Diego, and of course the agriculture. It would
be shocking if LV took as much water as SoCal.

~~~
Amadou
While true, and quite obvious, I don't understand your point. Are you saying
that makes SoCal water importation more sustainable?

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tommaxwell
I was invited by the Downtown Project to visit the city next month for one of
their retreats. Will be sure to write a blog post afterwards.

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anonymous
Previously, some criticism about the Downtown Project:
[http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5895699](http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5895699)

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ericflo
What a schlep!

EDIT: Context
[http://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html)

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rshlo
So great to see entrepreneurs like Hsieh help to build communities on a
massive scale.

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staunch
Imagine if YC moved there.

~~~
rdl
If I got to pick between YC in MV and YC in LV, I'd pick LV hands-down
(firearms, other regulations, being able to have decent housing; taxes are
better but that's a very minor concern). But, I don't think this would be true
for more than maybe 5% of the people in YC.

The main weakness of YC in LV would be the lack of investors. Within 10 miles
of YC in MV are almost all the good investors, within 30 miles, basically
everyone except USV and Mark Suster and maybe a couple more.

Tony Hsieh is awesome, but he's basically the only investor of note in Las
Vegas. Even Seattle has slightly more choices.

~~~
gonzo
The Greenspun family could be an interesting source. Danny Greenspun, in
particular, seems to get it.

