
A Tale of a Miserable Product Launch - stangeek
http://www.stangeek.com/a-tale-of-miserable-product-launch
======
gravitronic
This post could be considered rude but its in response to seeing your
continual negative attitude about your competition's successes (oink).

real talk:

The continual disdain you show for those previous popular successes (ie your
continued oink references) to me implies you should stop focusing on a social
product since you clearly don't "get it". "it" being people, your market,
society...

The reality is not that your unused inferior product is better than the
competition if only people stopped rating burritos and started using your chat
app.

The reality is that your app is inferior in an over-served market and has no
niche to give it traction. Understanding this will help you succeed in the
future.

~~~
stangeek
I'm very sorry the joke on Oink didn't register with you, and that's ok. Oink
is not a competitor and I doubt Kevin Rose gives a sh@t about what we think
about his app, which is indeed very well designed if you're into rating
burritos. Oops, did it again ;)

------
burriko
There's another angle on this that you haven't covered. Despite having big
name founders who can easily get coverage, apps like Path and Oink all have
something else in common. Design matters a lot these days, particularly when
it comes to iPhone apps, and unfortunately it's something that your app is
lacking in a big way. This is something that's immediate from the screenshots,
and I'm sure would put any tech blogger off straight away.

~~~
stangeek
Very true. But it still bothers me that a burrito / pork chops rating app gets
so much success based on its good looks.

~~~
evilduck
Why do you care so much about an app that you're not competing with?

Fart apps were wildly successful too.

~~~
stangeek
We don't really care, it was just an easy way to try to make people smile and
upvote the article in HN.

------
endymi0n
Guess the title was right, just that it wasn't a Miserable "Product Launch",
but much more a "Miserable Product" Launch... I'm so sorry, but this is a
typical case of development for its own sake - you don't need extensive
product and market research, some simple hallway testing (i.e. Asking a non-
geek: "Hey, do you get what we're trying to do? Do you think you could need
it?") would have been enough to establish that this idea doesn't have AND
traction and doesn't solve any major problems in a convincing way. Sorry for
your investment, but this seems like your own fault, guys. But as they say:
Expierience comes from failure, so insert coin and try again!

~~~
stangeek
Very true! We actually tested the app with friends beforehand, and it was very
well received when we took the time to explain what it was actually doing. So
it's not that the idea itself is miserable, it's more the product (which looks
crap), the message (which people don't get if you don't have the opportunity
to explain it in person) and the general marketing. But as you say, we're
going to insert coin and try again based on the very feedback the HN has
provided to us :)

------
tg3
I still don't really understand the benefit of this over the native SMS app.
On iPhones (and I imagine, other smartphones) reply all _is_ available. And
you can send pictures in the conversation. I'm pretty sure you can send map
locations too, but I've never done it.

If there is no functional benefit to the app, it doesn't look nearly as nice,
and my friends aren't hassling me to download it, why would I?

~~~
stangeek
Well not everybody has got an iPhone. Our chat app works on any modern
smartphone.

iMessage implements reply all indeed, but only if your friends are on iPhone
too...

~~~
tg3
the Group MMS feature on the iPhone (reply all) works as of iOS4, before
iMessage.

~~~
stangeek
Yes, and it's not cross platform so of no use unless your friends are all on
iPhone.

~~~
tg3
It replies via SMS or MMS to every phone number in the conversation,
regardless of whether it is an iPhone or not. I can see your point about not
having this capability on other smartphones, but why not build an android/bb
app that does exactly that instead? (if it doesn't already exist)

------
karterk
Launch is not an event, it's a process. One of the apps that I wrote for fun,
which I did not even try to market or promote randomly got picked up by a
medium sized blog and brings a steady stream of visitors now.

Of course, it will be great if you can kick the ball rolling with a huge
splash on major blogs, but most of the times that's not the case.

------
canterburry
Sorry...to me this article is just HN bait to promote the app. Don't see any
concrete learnings here that would serve as guidance to others.

~~~
stangeek
Well it's half true. But if you read till the end, you'll see I was pretty
open about this. And next week I'll post on HN to explain how this strategy
yielded quite a lot of downloads in a short period of time ;)

~~~
canterburry
So what you are saying is you have no issue with diluting the content quality
of HN for your own short term gains? Not only that...you are also eager to
show others how doing the same can help them and their product?

~~~
stangeek
No. Read the comments on the blog post, you'll see most people are thankful
for us sharing the experience. And if you can't make an opinion for yourself
about what kind of lessons can be learnt from this story, it's absolutely
fine.

------
ry0ohki
Not getting covered by tech blogs that you dropped an unsolicited email to
should not be considered a failed product launch. Well maybe it is in the
sense if you are counting on front page of TechCrunch as your entire marketing
effort. This seems like the kind of app that spreads virally, after all the
whole point is that it works without the other person needing the app. I'd say
just start using it with friends and see what happens?

~~~
angelbob
If he considers it a failed launch and then stops, it _is_ a failed launch.

Though the failure then is that he didn't keep trying :-)

------
duiker101
The fact is, that you created a product like other thousends of people, and
this is not the biggest face palm for a product launch... everyone is
enthusiastic about his product and expect it to have an enormous pitch. But
like you a lot of people remain disappointed. Good luck.

~~~
stangeek
Thanks!

------
gravitronic
I'm sorry but, this was 100% my first reaction:

Are those I's? L's? 1's? Roman number for 3? Especially since it contains an
uppercase I next to two lowercase l's and then a lowercase l.

Maybe if you left the starting I as a lowercase i at least it'd be readable...

~~~
stangeek
Very interesting feedback. So we should spell it illico ?

~~~
gravitronic
illico is definitely more readable than Illico.

~~~
Splines
Although the 4 straight lines next to each other are also difficult to read.
Having a differently shaped letter in there would help readability (people may
think it's spelled "ilico").

Also, "illico" seems to be quite an overloaded term if you search for it on
google.

------
citricsquid
I think they're aiming at the wrong market. If my Facebook feed is anything to
go by teenagers absolutely love new chat applications, but the reason they
love them is because their friends introduce them. Although yes the
requirement to register is a barrier to entry, it's a good one, it makes your
users invested in pushing their friends into using it. You took away the
element that makes these applications successful. Aim it at teenagers, provide
an incentive to use it and then drop the sms thing, then you'll take off (if
you're lucky!)

~~~
derefr
> Aim it at teenagers, provide an incentive to use it and then drop the sms
> thing

"Okay, I have an idea: _CSI, with robots, in space._ "

"Okay, that's great! But... how about if they _weren't_ robots, and it was in
a regular Earth-bound police department?"

"So, you mean... CSI."

Seriously, now, if you remove every bit of what makes the application unique,
then why should they be building _that_ application any more? Why not build
something that they _do_ have a unique value proposition for instead?

~~~
citricsquid
If they want to build this then they should accept nobody will use it. They're
complaining nobody uses it so I assumed they wanted people to use it.

~~~
mnutt
What they describe is almost _exactly_ GroupMe, circa 2010. Group chat app,
uses SMS so it works on non-smart phones, no signup required--just text /add
[number] to add someone to the group, and they're auto-joined.

Not to say it'll work for them, or that things haven't changed since 2010,
(group chat market saturation, more smartphones) but it was a pretty good idea
at one point.

------
pors
I think the reason for this story not being picked up is that the tech blog
writers understand that there is no demand for such an app. 99% of the people
don't care to sign up for a service like MSN in the old days and WhatsApp now,
and everyone is on Facebook right?

~~~
stangeek
Well if so they missed the point. With Illico you don't need to sign-up, and
you don't need your friends to have the app installed. I agree it's less sexy
than burrito rating apps though ;)

------
NameNickHN
I, too, think the layout is lacking, as some here suggest, but the bigger
issue is probably that the op relied on a handful of big tech blogs. Unless
you have connections to them or already are a big name in the business, nobody
will ever read your email or answer it or write about it in their blog.

This is drawn from personal experience with an online appointment scheduling
software we offer. There are too many of those out there. Nobody really cares
about the next one, even though it has nice features others don't.

------
lambada
A nice reminder that not every product can succeed (within a certain amount of
time), and that infact most don't.

I do wonder what impact a better marketing strategy would have had - I'd have
thought that taking advantage of the contacts from their previous success
would have been the first thing to do.

They are definitely right about one thing though - general tips lines are
swamped, it's now even more important that you network before you release.
Unless, of course, you get a front-page spot on HN.

------
waxjar
I think facebook did a great job with their Messenger app. Most people are on
facebook already (so the no sign up sales pitch isn't very convincing), it's
available on almost every smartphone (and not just a particular brand like
Blackberry Messenger), most tablets and with every computer connected to the
internet. Probably even on some TVs (?). It's a cheap substitute for text-
messages. The app is _really_ simple and looks good.

Competing against them is a waste of time.

------
chmike
Is there a way to contact you privately ? Your HN profile shows no fax number.
;) Something like an email address as feedback [at] illi.co would be useful.

~~~
stangeek
partners [at] lollicode [dot] com will work :)

------
nlmoreaux
Personnellement, rien que le fait d'être français me décourage totalement à
lancer la moindre « startup ».

Big bisou ;-)

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Il n'est pas nécessaire d'être si défaitiste.

~~~
canop_fr
Yep. Des fois ça marche. Mais c'est sûr que c'est plus dur...

Faut dire, les startups, içi, ça fait un peu alien. Et encore, je dis içi...
Depuis que j'ai émigré à Lyon, je n'espère même plus en voir près de moi...

~~~
nlmoreaux
Je vis au fin fond de la Champagne-Ardenne, et je dois avouer que ma passion
(autodidacte) pour l'AJAX me rapporte pas des masses. C'est pas évident ni
motivant de chercher du boulot sans disposer d'un BAC+5. Les boîtes qui
fonctionnent comme 37signals ne courent pas les rues ici...

D'ailleurs si jamais y'a quelques lecteurs francophones d'HN dans le coin,
qu'ils n'hésitent pas à me contacter (et plus si affinités ;-))

~~~
chmike
Il manque une fonctionnalité de messagerie privée à HN avec laquelle on
pourrait envoyer un MP ou être contacté sans risque d'être spammé.

Il y a pas mal de lecteurs francophones sur HN. C'est à se demander si on ne
devrait pas organiser une rencontre HN France un jour.

~~~
babebridou
Personnellement je suis pour une rencontre (après à voir comment on peut faire
ça, après tout nous sommes tous _un poil occupés_ je pense).

~~~
nlmoreaux
Hop, juste pour rire : <http://www.facebook.com/groups/285218378209365/>

On va pouvoir appeler ça « A Tale of a Miserable Facebook Group Launch » haha.

~~~
babebridou
Pas forcément si misérable, on est 5, peut faire un tarot.

~~~
thibaut_barrere
je vais faire circuler! bonne idée

------
shrikant
swombat gave a talk on how to get on TechCrunch/Lifehacker/etc in one of the
first HN London meetups. [1]

And I believe his first point was: follow up. I can't remember exactly what
happened, but he basically emailed [TechCrunch] with a follow-up email after a
period of silence, and the blogger got back to him with an "Oops, mea culpa,
slipped my mind".

It's not clear from your post, but did you try just reaching out to them
again? Maybe a blogger directly, instead of the tips@ mailbox which might be
inundated with way too many emails...

[1] [http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/java-jee/how-to-get-on-
techc...](http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/java-jee/how-to-get-on-techcrunch-
lifehacker-slashdot-etc)

~~~
stangeek
We haven't followed up, and I agree contacting a blogger in person is indeed
what we should do. In between we figured out that being on the front page of
HN (even for the wrong reasons) would at least make a bit of noise, help us
get some ideas and feedback on the app (it looks crap, we got this) and refine
our strategy for this project (or the next one).

Thank you for your feedback and stay tuned :)

------
jkahn
Maybe they weren't excited because iMessage has reply all, and the tech press
all use iPhones?

~~~
stangeek
Very good point...

