
USA tried to pay Germans so coronavirus cure vaccine would be exclusive to USA - onetimemanytime
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-administration-tried-to-pay-germans-scientists-for-coronavirus-cure-2020-3
======
tmpz22
As an American citizen please Germany don’t be submissive in your response to
this. Publish the emails, the phone calls, sanction us, go to the press. We
deserve it.

~~~
saturday14
_Publish the emails, the phone calls, sanction us, go to the press_

Agree with the rest, but sanctions don't hurt the people who actually came up
with this shitty idea. It ends up hurting the normal guy on the road, who will
probably not endorse the idea in the first place.

~~~
wizzwizz4
It hurts the metrics of the people who came up with the idea, and might
therefore reduce the chance they get re-elected. Plus, it adds weight to the
(perceived) severity of the crime. But collateral damage is high, so it might
not be the best of plans.

~~~
Fjolsvith
> Plus, it adds weight to the (perceived) severity of the crime.

What law was broken? Its like saying HBO breaks a law by having their shows
exclusive to their subscriber base.

~~~
jimhefferon
Moral law?

~~~
Fjolsvith
Morals are subjective.

~~~
Pfhreak
And yet, we generally agree on some baseline human standards. Sure, maybe you
can find examples of people who would think this is morally reasonable, but I
would guess they are a pretty extreme minority.

~~~
whatshisface
The people involved in the negotiation, except for whoever leaked it, thought
it was permissible by the baseline human standards.

~~~
jimhefferon
They were wrong, though.

------
onetimemanytime
German article: [https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-
USA-w...](https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article206555143/Corona-USA-will-
Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html)

Translate:
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.welt.de%2Fwirtschaft%2Farticle206555143%2FCorona-
USA-will-Zugriff-auf-deutsche-Impfstoff-Firma.html)

------
praptak
Let's unleash the free market on the (globally) unique rights to things that
save lives. What could possibly go wrong?

~~~
Fjolsvith
> the (globally) unique rights to things that save lives

This I don't understand. I don't have a right to nutritious food - I have to
work to get that. Where do these rights come from?

~~~
Pfhreak
> I don't have a right to nutritious food

Many, many people would disagree with that statement. Who says you _don 't_
have a right to nutritious food?

~~~
erulabs
Virtually anyone who understands positive versus negative rights. Rights -to-
something are highly dubious. Rights -from- something are much more readily
agreed on by Americans who value the way the constitution was written. If I
have a right to good food - then someone somewhere has lost the right to
refuse to serve me - either directly (I’m allowed into their store if they
want or not) or indirectly (they are forced to labor in fields in terrible
conditions). So - while no one has the right to keep you from creating your
own nutrition- you absolutely do not have the right to other people’s
nutrition. You can abstract as far as you want - but a right “to” something
always boils down to implied forced labor (farmers, doctors - the list goes on
and on). Many wars have been waged because people felt they had “a right” to a
piece of land or a resource.

To be clear I’m not saying i think we should keep good food from people - of
course not. But many many people are rightfully dubious of positive rights.

~~~
Pfhreak
> then someone somewhere has lost the right to refuse to serve me - either
> directly (I’m allowed into their store if they want or not) or indirectly
> (they are forced to labor in fields in terrible conditions).

There are other options than this false dichotomy. We could all chip in,
relative to our means, to ensure a baseline of healthy food is available to
all. I neither serve food nor labor in the fields, and yet I'm pretty sure I
could be part of a solution that ensures everyone gets basic healthy food even
if they cannot/do not work.

~~~
erulabs
Of course - but the implication is enough people need to willingly do that -
which is a negative right - you’re allowed to spend whatever time and money
you want on feeding people. But as soon as you flip it - we just need everyone
to do ____ - you’re describing forced labor. Hoping everyone would be good
enough citizens to want to do the forced labor does not make the labor not
forced.

~~~
Pfhreak
Am I? I don't think I am. I think I'm describing a system where we take a
portion of the product of the labor you choose to undertake, and use it to
raise the minimum standard.

You can do more labor or less labor. You can do more valuable labor or less
valuable labor. You are not forced to labor, but you are required to give up a
portion of what you choose to undertake.

------
klft
Duplicate of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22584108](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22584108)

------
chillytoes
This story and headline seems misleading at best, and fake news at worst.

~~~
madez
The reporting is matched by many very reputable broadcasters and confirmed by
government officials on record.

~~~
busymom0
The company itself has put out a statement that it's false news. And Reuters
has now edited their article and removed the part which said it was confirmed
by government official.

------
spikels
Sounds like the proverbial fake news to me: extraordinary claims, denied by
company, doesn’t make sense, etc.

~~~
Pfhreak
> In a separate statement, the health ministry told Reuters that the WELT am
> Sonntag report was accurate: "We confirm the report in the WELT am Sonntag,"
> a spokesperson said.

Health ministry seems to confirm it. Calling Fake News on an article without
any evidence comes across as needlessly partisan.

~~~
theferalrobot
Yeah and if you read the Reuters report it says the exact opposite of this
business insider drivel.

> The U.S. government has spoken with many (more than 25) companies that claim
> they can help with a vaccine. Most of these companies already received seed
> funding from U.S. investors... any solution found would be shared with the
> world

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-
german...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-
usa/germany-tries-to-stop-u-s-from-luring-away-firm-seeking-coronavirus-
vaccine-idUSKBN2120IV)

------
tgafpc2
110% they misunderstood the US Government offering them exclusive rights in
the US market, not for the US market. The foundation of this article is so
stupid, even CNN couldn't propose it with a straight face.

------
pcunite
"A U.S. official said: “This story is wildly overplayed … We will continue to
talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And any solution found
would be shared with the world.”

------
bg24
Is it a mindless leader of large corporation, or is it Government? It does not
reflect the character of USA people.

~~~
rad_gruchalski
When one realises that nearly 50% of the population of the country voted the
man in...

I understand how the presidential election work in the USA. But people always
have a choice.

~~~
theklub
Apparently you don't because the population of USA is roughly 330 million and
62 million voted for Trump. No where near 50% of the population.

~~~
rad_gruchalski
On the other hand, after giving it some thought. I know many American people,
some of them voted for Trump. These people are nothing like him. I have no bad
experience with any American I know and hold no bad feelings towards the
people or the country. Maybe the system isn’t working.

~~~
theklub
Read up on the electoral college. Clinton got more votes...It doesn't work.

~~~
DoreenMichele
The electoral college exists precisely so that population alone isn't the
determiner. So it actually does what it is, in fact, intended to do.

It's designed that way so that bigger states with more people don't have cart
blanche and smaller states with fewer people don't get just trampled
underfoot.

You can debate if it's really a good thing that we have a system in place to
try to balance out such things, but asserting that the electoral college
doesn't work because Trump won with fewer votes basically says "I don't
actually understand the thing."

It works exactly as it was designed to work.

~~~
theklub
Yes of course it does, but my opinion is it doesn't work to get the best and
brightest mind into the white house...so in that sense it is broken. Thanks.

------
geebee
The story is outrageous. However, how many of you here on HN throw up a red
flag when an article uses the word "poach" around scientists and engineers?

I'm permanently distrustful when I start to hear this word. I think this was a
result of being an engineer in Silicon Valley from the late 90s through 2010
or so. The large Silicon Valley employers (the ones lobbying congress about a
shortage of engineers) were clearly involved in an absolutely loathsome no-
poach collusion to suppress wages.

This doesn't mean I automatically reject the possibility of bad faith when I
read stories about "poaching". For example I do agree that USC crossed a line
and acted reprehensibly when it "poached" UCSD's Alzheimer's research lab. But
I still want to know how much the UCSD scientists were getting paid relative
to the housing market nearby (in this case, La Jolla, CA). This info is almost
never included in the articles (just like the press is willing to report about
how a tech CEO is experiencing hiring difficulties without once mentioning the
salary offered).

This article suggests something more akin to the USC/UCSD scenario, where it's
more than merely hiring away talent. I'd just like a little more information
about what they mean by "poached". What were the working conditions and
salaries for the German scientists getting "poached"? Are these scientists
superstars? You know what large law firms, investment banks, tech companies
(post-collusion), and sports teams pay superstars to keep them from being
"poached"?

The word "poached" implies that engineers and scientists, among others, are
not truly free agents, but are owned in some way by their employers - and this
worms its way into policy (for example, in how H1B visas are actually
controlled by the employer, not bestowed directly onto the employee and/or
would-be immigrant). I reject this.

------
ajnin
Withholding access to a vaccine to a disease that is causing thousands of
victims, thousands of deaths, would be quite literally a crime against
humanity. To even consider the idea, presumably for political purposes, is
insane.

------
keiferski
In case you only read the headline (which seems to be about every comment in
here):

 _Responding to the report, a U.S. official said: “This story is wildly
overplayed. The U.S. government has spoken with many (more than 25) companies
that claim they can help with a vaccine. Most of these companies already
received seed funding from U.S. investors.”_

 _“We will continue to talk to any company that claims to be able to help. And
any solution found would be shared with the world,” the U.S. official added._

 _A German Health Ministry spokeswoman, confirming a quote in the newspaper,
said: “The German government is very interested in ensuring that vaccines and
active substances against the new coronavirus are also developed in Germany
and Europe.”_

 _Welt am Sonntag quoted an unidentified German government source as saying
Trump was trying to secure the scientists’ work exclusively, and would do
anything to get a vaccine for the United States, “but only for the United
States.”_

~~~
cstross
The problematic bits here are the word "exclusively" and the phrase "but only
for the United States".

Viral pandemics don't respect frontiers.

~~~
FriendlyNormie
The problematic bit here is “unidentified” in “unidentified German government
source” which roughly translates to “completely made up”.

~~~
cstross
The German government believes it enough that Jens Spahn, their Health
Minister, is on the record as saying a US takeover of CureVac won't be allowed
to happen, and CureVac removed their (American) CEO last week (following a
meeting with Trump, Pence, and other American pharma industry CEOs):

[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/not-for-
sale-a...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/not-for-sale-anger-
in-germany-at-report-trump-seeking-exclusive-coronavirus-vaccine-deal)

The German interior minister refused to comment but also refused to deny the
reports and said it would be discussed in the German government crisis
committee -- if it's a made up allegation, a denial would be a cheap and easy
way of defusing it. Ergo, there's fire beneath the smoke.

------
strictnein
For what it's worth, the company is kind of denying this:

> "As a consequence, the company is in contact with especially CEPI and many
> other organizations and authorities worldwide, however abstains from
> commenting on speculations and rejects allegations about offers for
> acquisition of the company or its technology."

[https://www.curevac.com/news/curevac-focuses-on-the-
developm...](https://www.curevac.com/news/curevac-focuses-on-the-development-
of-mrna-based-coronavirus-vaccine-to-protect-people-worldwide)

------
Animats
Is this for real? Even Trump isn't that stupid. It's not something that could
be a secret if it worked.

~~~
_ZeD_
>>> Even Trump isn't that stupid.

that's questionable

------
jb775
Divide and conquer - the single strategy that has consistently worked to
defeat and/or control humans throughout all of history.

If you trace back to the owners of the parent companies of the media outlets
printing stories like this, you are left with a handful of individuals with a
very clear anti-Trump agenda. They push stories like this to divide the
populace, because a divided populace is easier to control and steer towards
the media's own agenda. Need to think for yourselves rather than let the media
tell you what to think!

------
NicoJuicy
In time of need, you know your friends.

How would you explain Trump's "America First" when the solution isn't coming
from the US. I hope he gets what he asked for, having to admit that the
possible solution is coming from a ally.

( I'm not talking about Americans in general fyi. I hope the vaccine will be
available to all)

------
napolux
Plain and simple.

* USA acquires a Vaccine * USA Gov. gives the vaccine to some big pharma corp. * Big pharma will patent the vaccine * The world will be sued by big pharma if it come up with a vaccine

~~~
aaomidi
Yeah, the world will ignore the patent and do it's job.

~~~
gamblor956
Many countries already have laws allowing them to ignore patents (issued by
that country or by other countries) for essential medications.

A COVID19 vaccine would definitely fall into that category. So unless there's
something unique about the process of making the vaccine that is difficult to
replicate, an "exclusive US patent" means nothing.

~~~
aaomidi
Yes a patent is nothing but a license.

If you abuse it you lose it.

------
Johnny555
Trump's entire platform is "America First", so this should surprise no one.

Since I got a few downvotes, I figured I should support this statement with a
reference. What's more "America First" than making sure only America gets a
vaccine?

[https://www.promiseskept.com/about/](https://www.promiseskept.com/about/)

 _While serving in office, President Trump has continuously delivered for the
American people to put America First both at home and abroad._

~~~
ldng
It's not even America First, here we're talking about America Only. Not
acceptable for the rest of the world. You're really surprised ?

~~~
Johnny555
I'm not surprised, this is consistent with the Trump Administration's
platform. And I even said that: "this should surprise no one _

------
13415
The fact that the CEO was fired with prejudice and replaced by the former CEO
unfortunately speaks for the theory that this was about an exclusive deal with
the US, where the offer was coming from the highest level of the US
administration. IMHO, if true, that would be batshit crazy.

~~~
curiousgal
I mean that either means that the CEO was fired for accepting the deal or that
(s)he was replaced with someone that will do so.

I am loving how this epidemic is exposing all of our system's flaws.

Edit: the old CEO was American, he was replaced with a German founder. So that
narrows it down.

