
Visual Studio 2017 Release Candidate - jpalomaki
https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/visual-studio-2017-rc/
======
FLGMwt
As a .NET dev, I'm happy to see this:

"a new way of view, edit, and debug any code without projects and solutions"

Seems silly, but this solves a long time gripe w/ VS.

~~~
jimmaswell
Good for small scripts in python etc I guess? Otherwise, when would you want
the IDE's abilities but constrained to one file?

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samb1729
You aren't necessarily limited to editing single files without project files.
Lots of projects are folder-based with tasks or commands to be run on that
folder structure.

See: Rails apps, Hugo websites, anything written in Go.

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vram22
Right. Directory-based projects were there from the early days of Unix and C,
even before make and makefiles organized things a bit.

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b_lindahl
Visual Studio "15" = Visual Studio 2017 = VC 15.0 Crystal clear. Why didn't
Microsoft bump up VC version to 17 to sort of make VC version follow VS
version. Would clear out some confusion going forward.

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gregmac
I am beginning to think that Microsoft's bad verison naming is entirely on-
purpose.

Windows has had terrible naming since NT -- back and forth between
names/numbers/years (or nonsense like "Anniversary Update" or "R2"), have a
completely different scheme for Server vs Desktop, and if you look at the
corresponding kernel versions of these releases[0], the major/minor bump in
versions seems completely arbitrary.

.NET is even worse. Framework vs CLR is a mess [1]. Core started over at 1.0.
.NET Standard brings some consistency to it all, but also introduces _another_
versioning scheme with overlapping numbers that mean different things[2].

But even other divisions do this: Xbox -> Xbox 360 -> Xbox One.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT#Releases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT#Releases)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework_version_history...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework_version_history#Overview)

[2]
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2016/09/26/introduci...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2016/09/26/introducing-
net-standard/)

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Pharylon
You forgot about Windows 9. ;)

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ZenoArrow
Was meant to have been skipped because it was too similar to Windows 9x
(Win95, etc...).

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gregmac
Which wouldn't have been a problem if they followed a consistent naming
convention in the first place...

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satysin
The new installer is nice. Installed just a C++ environment in 5 minutes!!

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jjordan
Wow that's huge. My last VS2015 install took hours.

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dleslie
I usually do it at the end of the day, and leave it running when I end work.

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justin66
Not even an option in the Windows 10 era, where our computers might reboot at
any time on short notice. (work computers with group policy tweaks are
something of an exception, but still)

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omerraviv
Some first impressions here: [https://blog.oz-code.com/first-impressions-of-
visual-studio-...](https://blog.oz-code.com/first-impressions-of-visual-
studio-2017-rc/)

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PerfectElement
Thanks! I was hoping I would be able to get rid of ReSharper, but the lack of
CamelHumps in navigation and in code completion will force me to keep using.

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omerraviv
Personally they'll have to pry ReSharper from my cold, dead, hands - I've
grown to rely on more advanced features like Value Origins/Destination
[https://www.jetbrains.com/help/resharper/2016.2/Code_Analysi...](https://www.jetbrains.com/help/resharper/2016.2/Code_Analysis__Value_Tracking.html)
That I couldn't possibly go back.

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nathanaldensr
Good God I love ReSharper. I've been using it since the mid 2000s. It's a
wonderful tool. However, their more recent releases have introduced some
pretty annoying regressions with code formatting and other features. They seem
to be ignoring my hand-reported issues on YouTrack. I haven't been as
impressed with ReSharper as in the past. Hopefully they can right the ship and
put out better quality stuff.

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Maarten88
One of the install options is "Linux development with C++"

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LyalinDotCom
Yes our C++ team has been investing into this area for a while now, we're
building some really powerful debugging capabilities there as just one thing
to mention with remote debug right out to your Linux machine or VM

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TheCoreh
Does that mean VS will support C11 features?

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robotdad
The Linux workload is designed to work with GCC today, so whatever standard
level your GCC compiler supports is good.

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nickhalfasleep
I think there is really only one feature Microsoft cares deeply about in this,
and that is "Easy Azure integration". All the big fish are going to work hard
to collect rent on whatever SAAS they can.

Why twist yourself in knots to be the "next X" when you can be content
supplying the "next X" with a platform for expansion.

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maxpert
Great to see some Resharper features making it in, have been waiting for MS to
acquire Resharper or Jet brains :P; but why acquire when you can make your own
Slack and Resharper :)

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AsyncAwait
> have been waiting for MS to acquire Resharper or Jet brains :P;

Please don't. They make way too many awesome tools outside of Microsoft's area
of interest, like CLion, Kotlin, RubyMine etc.

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maxpert
Kotlin is my fav!

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jamesmp98
I'm tempted, but when I tried 2015 RC shit broke like crazy when I upgraded to
the actual release.

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GordonS
I was bitten like this with an RC of an earlier VS version (maybe 2012, I
don't recall). I haven't touched a VS RC since, and doubt I ever will!

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wmkn
Does this also mean a new C/C++ runtime library is available (i.e.
vcruntime150)?

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StephanTLavavej
MSVC STL dev here. We're doing something different this time around. VS 2015
RTM and Update 1/2/3 were binary-compatible (as usual) while adding lots of
features to the compiler and STL (unusual). VS 2017 RTM and its Updates will
continue to be binary-compatible while adding features, meaning that our DLLs
are still vcruntime140.dll, msvcp140.dll, etc. The versions are admittedly a
mess, so here's the magic decoder ring:

VS 2015: IDE version 14, DLL version 140, toolset version 140, compiler
version 19.0 (the C++ compiler is older than the Visual part of Visual C++).
VS 2017: IDE version 15, DLL version 140 (same!), toolset version 141,
compiler version 19.1

We still recommend that you build everything with VS 2017 consistently, as
this will give you the most performance and correctness. However, you can mix
in object files, static libraries, and DLLs compiled with previous versions
all the way back to 2015 RTM, and things will continue to work (although you
won't necessarily activate fixes in the newer version).

For more info, read the comments on
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2016/08/24/c1417-fea...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/vcblog/2016/08/24/c1417-features-
and-stl-fixes-in-vs-15-preview-4/) where I mentioned WCFB02.

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wmkn
Thank you. I seem to have completely missed all the VC blog posts about the
bincompat decision with regard to Visual Studio "15"/2017.

Glad to know that the VC100 to VC140 overhaul that I completed only very
recently can still be considered fully up to date with the latest and greatest
:).

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StephanTLavavej
Yeah, it makes migrating a codebase with third-party libraries built with
older toolsets easier. Note that you'll need to build with VS 2017 if you want
header-only improvements like the vector overhaul, and you'll need to update
to 2017's VCRedist if you want DLL improvements (e.g. if you're still on 2015
RTM's msvcp DLL, you don't have the iostreams correctness/performance fix that
shipped in 2015 Update 2; DLL improvements are uncommon but they do happen).

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hudo
Project.json for .net core is gone, there's xproj file. How to change
settings, like target framework, per-framework dependencies, build options,
pre/post build steps, etc? I don't see any tooling support for that.

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tracker1
That went away a while ago, unfortunately... though I think yaml may have been
better, the json-like structure was much easier than the xml mess for vs
projects.

Hoping they added an "empty" project that is just files, closest were some of
the web projects, but even then, node projects always felt like an alien
afterthought... haven't seen how they are in vs2017, guessing they brought in
the ntvs stuff into mainline.

~~~
hudo
project.json is still official way of configuring the projects. Dotnet cli
uses that, msbuild is not there yet i think. Empty project is done with
"donnet new", and it's really small and light ...

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WorldMaker
Recent versions of the dotnet cli work with both xproj and project.json for
the time being, but have defaulted `dotnet new` to the xproj output. It also
provides a `dotnet migrate` command to convert a project.json to an xproj.

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WorldMaker
xproj was the transitionary MSBuild scaffold, I meant csproj, things are
returning to the csproj extension.

Some details of it all:
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2016/11/16/announcin...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2016/11/16/announcing-
net-core-tools-msbuild-alpha/)

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warrenmiller
Anyone know if this will work with Unity 3D?

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tirant
It seems so:

Game development with Unity The Unity engine integrates into one unparalleled
platform to create 2D and 3D games and interactive content. Create once and
publish to 21 platforms, including all mobile platforms, WebGL, Mac, PC and
Linux desktop, web or consoles. Write code quickly and with precision using
IntelliSense. Navigate through your scripts easily and use powerful
refactoring capabilities. Identify issues quickly by debugging your Unity
games in Visual Studio.

~~~
jsheard
In a similar vein, Unreal Engine 4 added support for VS "15"/2017 in
yesterdays 4.14 release.

[https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/unreal-
engine-4-14-release...](https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/unreal-
engine-4-14-released)

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james-skemp
I've always been hesitant to install RC's on my machine.

Does anyone know how nicely the RC's generally play with other instances of VS
/ if they've improved that along with the improved install/uninstall process
in 2017?

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swasheck
In my experience, the RCs play nicely with other instances, but moving to the
RTM is a complete nightmare.

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jamesmp98
Yes my 2013 and 2015RC ran very well together, but omfg when I tried to
upgrade to 2015 RTM

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johnhattan
Looks like the download page is getting hammered.

FWIW, the download buttons on the big white panels didn't work for me. If you
scroll further down the page to the list of all downloads, that worked.

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Beltiras
Piss-poor caching mechanism that can't spit out static frontpages with
relative ease. Still getting 504's.

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johnhattan
Here are direct links. Looks like they haven't updated the names in the URL's,
but this downloads the 2017 RC.

[https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_Community.exe](https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_Community.exe)
[https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_Enterprise.exe](https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_Enterprise.exe)
[https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_Professional.exe](https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_Professional.exe)
[https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_TestProfessional.exe](https://aka.ms/vs/15/release/vs_TestProfessional.exe)

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Beltiras
Thanks.

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chocks
This is exciting, trying out now.. installer seems pretty smooth

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cathysull_MSFT
Happy to hear! If you have any feedback or run into any issues, go to Help >
Send Feedback in the IDE. Thanks! Cathy (Visual Studio IDE Team)

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AlphaWeaver
Looks like MS is making mostly small changes, focusing on improving the
features they already have instead of introducing lots of new changes.

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gigatexal
They're integrating xamarin into visual studio. That's pretty big no?

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asdfologist
Is the new xamarin going to be any less buggy?

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joshka
My experience with reporting a bug in Xamarin the other day was that it was
fairly quickly reproduced and fixed. If you're hitting bugs I'd really
recommend reporting them if you're not already.

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be5invis
So, when will cl support two-phase name lookup?

