
Ask HN: Do Udacity nanodegrees get anyone a job without academic background? - ycombonator
For example someone with limited programming knowledge ? https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.udacity.com&#x2F;course&#x2F;c-plus-plus-nanodegree--nd213
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Alex3917
No one is going to hire you because you have a degree, whether from a
university or from Udacity. They'll hire you because:

A) your overall resume is impressive

B) you either have a portfolio of things you've built, or else you agree to do
a take home assignment and successfully complete it

C) you can pass both technical and non-technical interviews

To get hired you need A && B && C. Doing Udacity will probably help with each
of those things, but no one is ever going to hire you because of an academic
credential alone.

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stared
15 years ago I went to MIT for a 1.5-month internship, while still in my high
school. Companies still ask about that.

As much as I would like it to be otherwise, signaling (namedropping of famous
universities, companies, and people) works a lot. I guess mostly because
people prefer to delegate decision making. The backside of that is that unless
you finished (or dropped out) from a well-respected univ., you have an uphill
battle of proving one's worth.

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georgeburdell
RSI? Well that’s a bit of an exception. I personally interpret it as a more
enduring meritocratic signal than attending any specific college.

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stared
Yes, RSI! :)

Though the ones who set "oh, you were at MIT" didn't know about this program.

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credit_guy
If I see any resume with RSI on it, here's how I read it:

* I think less than 1% of the high school students in this country (the US) are aware of summer programs such as RSI. Knowing about RSI, let alone being selected into it, is a strong signal that in your pre-college years you were very invested in math and STEM.

* even if you don't have a very prestigious college degree is not a negative signal anymore from my point of view. At 17-18 we are all very fragile beings (and we keep being fragile until at least 25), so lots of things could explain why you didn't get into a top university. I would inquire about that, but I would expect to hear some reasonable explanation (and I wouldn't mind if you simply told me it's personal and you don't feel comfortable going into those details).

* I would ask you if you participated in any math or CS competitions in high school/ college.

From here, lots of ways to have a pleasant chat for about 30 minutes.

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stared
I am not from the USA (there is some number of international participants). So
applying there is considerably more difficult than for a US person (and the
effort goes in non-STEM things such as the application procedure).

When it comes to signals, I like your approach for looking at them as hints,
rather than judgments.

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mowingscooter
When I come across an applicant with a nanodegree, it almost sends a negative
signal. If anything, do the course, leave it off your resume, and if you get
an interview, you might impress your interviewer with all this unexpected
technical knowledge.

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syntaxing
I'm surprised that it sends an negative signal. Is there a reasoning for it?
Does completing an online course signify unwanted behavior/personality? I feel
like if you leave it off your resume, you probably wouldn't be able to land
the interview to begin with.

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mowingscooter
I’ve done online courses myself and found them immensely useful.

Unfortunately, I think that to some extent, it signals that “I’m interested,
but not committed enough to get a full degree.”

Your nanodegree realistically will never come close to competing with a formal
CS degree. So don’t bother with listing it. List your github projects and apps
you’ve released. Get the interview. “Oh and by the way, in my spare time, I’ve
self-studied XYZ.”

That’ll impress me.

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enraged_camel
>>Unfortunately, I think that to some extent, it signals that “I’m interested,
but not committed to getting a full degree.”

This seems quite short-sighted, because the underlying assumption is that not
getting a full degree is a signal for unwillingness to commit, as opposed to
_inability_ to commit.

Not many people can up and quit their "real life" to pursue a degree. With
your mindset, you are definitely discriminating against, for instance, people
who have medical bills to pay and are stuck at their current jobs, but are
also ambitious and dedicated and want to switch to better careers and are
willing to do whatever it takes to do it.

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mowingscooter
I’m extremely sympathetic to that situation since I was an unemployed college
grad looking to get a developer job when I took my first Udacity course (“How
to build your own search engine” - 2012).

The problem is that it’s a competitive field out there and to give people
false hope that a nanodegree will get them a job is disingenuous.

I’ve also listed the alternatives for self-taught developers to help them
stand out. I think ultimately, if you weren’t going to get the interview, a
nanodegree won’t help you. If you were maybe going to get the interview (by
showing impressive original work in the form of projects and apps), a
nanodegree might help you the slightest bit.

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wodenokoto
I find it impressive when I see applicants that have completed online courses.
It takes a lot of discipline to self study.

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zn44
seeing nanodegree on CV would be neutral for me.

I'm software engineer without a degree, i've done ML nanodegree recently. I
don't plan to shift my career to ML and did it only to gain high level
understanding. I didn't have to put a lot of effort to complete. I wouldn't
consider myself hireable for ML role but i've seen that other people treating
nd courses much more seriously than myself putting a lot of effort and
producing great projects.

In the end is about the skills you have and a way to present them. I think
udacity courses do teach relevant stuff but it's up to you to put the effort
in

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kirpekar
I did a nanodegree, it was a complete waste of time for me.

It was impossible for me to get a job with those (basic) skills. A lot more is
needed.

I have been on the other side also as a hiring manager. I would never screen
(let alone hire) anyone just on the basis of the nanodegree

~~~
jammygit
I do wish there were more advanced courses available. Tons of great intro
material, but its harder to go deep

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gdubs
Ultimately people will hire you if they can understand the value you’ll bring
to their org. I.e, the dollars you will help them earn, or the impact your
efforts will have on a goal that’s primary to them. Education is one signal
out of many.

That means that if you can get in front of the hiring manager, your resume is
going to be less important than the impression you make on that person, and
how compelling a case you can make about the value you’ll generate.

There are gate keepers out there who will discard perfectly good candidates
because their resume doesn’t exactly match the job description; focus your
energy on discovering ways to skip over those people and get in front of the
decision makers — and then be prepared to articulate and demonstrate the value
you’ll bring.

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pfranz
I don't have anything specific to nanodegrees or specific online courses, but
its a lot easier if you know specifically what job/industry you're targeting.

In my experience a Master's/Bachelor's/PhD might get you into the interview
room because of your resume or recruiters coming to campus, but in my
experience I've been disappointed about the knowledge gaps in recent graduates
from well-known schools. I've also interviewed Masters/PhDs who studied my
field, but were interviewing for user-facing support roles when they're
clearly better suited for something more focused on r&d. Or they've focused so
much on a specific subset, they're lacking the general knowledge needed for
that job. IMHO, degrees don't guarantee anything for me. At most, they're a
jumping off point for how your interests and background apply to that job.

More important than the degree are the projects you've worked on, your role in
them, and challenges you've overcome. You could take the nanodegree and omit
it from your resume, but put the projects on there as personal projects. Just
don't misrepresent your work. It can be a surprisingly small industry. Someone
might recognize a project as something they saw online, or know someone who
worked on it.

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srb24
I think there is a big difference between an academic course that anyone can
take (assuming you can pay or it's free!) and a university course that you
need to compete with other students to get a place - employers may like that
as indirectly the course has done some pre-screening of candidates for them

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syntaxing
I did the SDC nanodegree and I'm currently doing the deep learning nanodegree.
Not sure if it helped me to get the interview but it helped me during the
interview. But I mainly rely on my college degree (MSc in MechE) when I'm
applying. However, I had no luck getting an interview for any SWE roles.

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simmanian
Why do you go for regular SWE roles when you've taken the SDC nanodegree
program and are currently going through the deep learning one?

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drwl
You'll probably receive a biased sample from the HN crowd

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etmhpe
There's a reason Udacity does not release hiring stats

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edshiro
I completed the self-driving car nanodegree last year and currently doing the
computer vision one. I did not seek a job at the end of the SDC one but I
learned a lot and that could be helpful in the near future, either for my
startup or if I decide to look for a new job.

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sloaken
IMHO the micro degrees, and MOOC courses in general, can help if you already
have the needed requirements and use it to support extras listed as 'wants'.
Of course if the list of NEEDED skills is more than 5, then they usually do
not know what they really need and a micro degree for all of their listed
requirements would work. In addition, the micros could provide the difference
between two candidates. "Yeah they are about the same, but this one spends
time learning more, and you know we are considering opening the left-handed
smoke shifter division and his micro skills would be an asset there"

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djswartz
I am a product/engineering hiring manager at a tech company. I would love to
know about nano-degrees that candidates have completed. It takes just as much
grit as brick and mortar college if not more.

Disclosure: Maybe bias as I quit college to be a FT software engineer. And
traditional schooling never really worked for me I learned more at home.

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lallysingh
So... how do you know how much grit it takes for a brick and mortar college?

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dominotw
I did a couple. No one cared about those.

Save your money if thats your motivation.

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usgroup
OP a better question might be:

“how would I work out whether the current market applicable to me would be
willing to hire based on a nano degree?”

It’ll invoke fewer platitudes and generalisations from HN.

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bsdnoob
Nope

