
Never mind the language, the programmer is what matters - fogus
http://p.einarsen.no/?p=151
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arohner
>For all program aspects investigated, the performance variability due to
different programmers (as described by the bad/good ratios) is on average
about as large or even larger than the variability due to different languages.

Yes, but that doesn't mean the language doesn't matter. If programmer
productivity is variable by 10x, and this study shows that the language
affects their productivity by less than the difference between programmers,
that's still a huge difference.

Using the wrong language can drop the performance of a rockstar programmer
down a weight class.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Not to mention the fact that really good programmers hate, hate, hate working
in lousy languages.

------
gengstrand
I'd much rather have good programmers on a bad language than bad programmers
on a good language.

~~~
jodrellblank
I'd rather have good carpenters working with a few blunt tools than rubbish
carpenters working with a good stock of sharp tools, but I don't think the
good carpenters would stick around very long.

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al3x
Thankfully, we don't have to choose between good programmers and good
languages. Organizations that care can have both.

~~~
tom_b
Many organizations care, but frankly have little to no hope of actually
differentiating good and bad programmers.

I personally have seen this in both sw dev firms and other firms (financial
and biotech) that have internal teams of programmers. Hiring a poor developer
was somewhat in the noise in overall outcome - in other words, a slow
programmer who produces some code that "kind of" works might be judged as
above average based on other, non-engineering talents (personal communication
skills, perception as non-trouble causing, etc)

Part of the problem boils down to "it takes one to know one." Even that
assumes that you've already got a good programmer and that person has hacked
the hiring process enough that they can effectively filter out bad
programmers.

I'm thinking lately about how we (the hacker community) can help non-IT people
judge programmers. Credentials don't seem to be the answer, personal
networking is hard, judging code is usually a flame-war between language
acolytes, and in the meantime . . . users are working too hard. Heck, your
typical (non-software oriented) organization can't speak to whether or not
language X or Y is the appropriate fit for solution development.

An interesting angle for me would be to hear your thoughts about how to build
a good programmer and how you would market that person to employers, assuming
that employers don't have a super-hacker on board who can help with candidate
filtering.

~~~
apotheon
A lot of organizations are completely hopless when it comes to identifying a
"good language" (for the problem domain), too.

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sp332
I don't think the issue is as black-and-white as the headline. It reminds me
of the bit Top Gear did where they "proved" that a BMW M3 got better mileage
than a Prius. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk#t=50s> Their point,
of course is that the diver makes a huge difference - enough to offset a huge
difference in cars. But obviously the show wouldn't exist if all cars were
equal!

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billswift
In ALL areas of skilled performance, the performer matters more than the
tools, including mental tools. Like the old adage, "There are no dangerous
martial arts, only dangerous martial artists". What the individual brings to
the project matters more than what tools he uses. As for "it is the culture
that matters" nonsense - a culture is just support for the individuals
involved; a few competent people are going to trounce incompetents no matter
how they are organized. Culture is just another type of tool.

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acg
Most programs are written by teams these days... it is the culture that
matters.

Culture provides support, best practice and good staff. Some good languages
will never be widely used unless they have good communities/projects
associated with them.

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morphir
just the level of entangled abstraction that C++ can bring to your project is
staggering.

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signa11
this kind of reminds me of the quote in "balls of fury" movie "game not in
paddle...game in you..."

