
Snow shovelling can kill - pedro84
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/whitecoat/blog/snow-shovelling-can-kill-1.3975830
======
joe_the_user
_The context is that many people pick up a shovel and do maximum effort
despite living a sedentary life._

The alternative argument would be that this kind of exercise is simply bad for
a person, especially a men over 50 - that it should be avoided even by those
otherwise in "good shape".

And yet a third possibility is that this kind of exercise is that this sort of
exercise merely moves forward the occurrence of a heart disease event that
would have otherwise occurred reasonably soon otherwise.

Anyone know any studies puzzling these possibilities out.

~~~
whalesalad
I know so many men over 50 through the crossfit community that are in killer
shape. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. The fact of the matter is
that most individuals are completely out of shape. Maximum effort should not
be a seasonal chore around the house.

~~~
carbocation
Age has quite a bit to do with it. You rarely see acute myocardial infarction
in 15 year olds, and you often see it in 80 year olds. There is a continuum of
risk, and age plays a role.

Because there are risk factors that are uncorrelated or imperfectly correlated
with physical fitness and its outward manifestations, even physically fit
individuals cannot escape this.

~~~
whalesalad
For those reading, acute myocardial infarction is the scientific word for
heart attack. Not sure why that needed to be used in this context.

Second... if take a 15 year old who is out of shape and an 80 year old who is
out of shape and have them shovel equal length driveways ... sure my money is
on the 15 year old.

But... you can't say that this problem is due to people being older. 30 year
old folks can still have heart attacks shoveling snow. There are loads of
folks out there who are in their 40s and 50s who won't experience any medical
issues with the exertion required to shovel a driveway.

So the point I was trying to illustrate is that it's not fair to blame age.
Age is one variable in a very complex equation that influences your level of
fitness.

~~~
linkregister
Earlier comment:

 _> Age has absolutely nothing to do with it._

This comment:

 _> Age is one variable in a very complex equation that influences your level
of fitness._

I appreciate your conceding that age is a major factor in health.

~~~
bonesss
> _...age is a major factor in health_

Tangential, but: I read a fascinating book about ageing and death from a
doctor who worked with such things. My big takeway, from a systems
perspective, was that we generally don't die because of a single component-
level failure but rather as a collective systematic overloads that push
failure throughout the body until a component dies (and so do we).

Age makes our lungs, arteries, heart, organs, and the rest of it work sub
optimally. Poorer lung function forces our hearts to work harder. Poor heart
function causes our lungs to work harder. An unusual shock like shovelling
pushes all components, which push each other, which is a great way to trigger
failure modes.

This looks a lot like what we see in complex systems over time. Age is
biological-debt :)

------
whalesalad
The real tragedy here is that folks are living such sedentary lives that a
simple activity like clearing snow from your sidewalk/driveway becomes lethal.

I was once a typical neckbeard programmer who drank way too much coke and red
bull and lived off of unhealthy foods. I have a 180º different lifestyle now
and will never go back. I enjoy shoveling my driveway.

Everyone should invest in their own physical fitness. Make time for it. Make
it your lifestyle so it's not a chore or a second-thought, but a regular part
of your routine. At the very least, do it for your mental health.

~~~
tostitos1979
May I ask what age you changed your ways? I'm 38 and it feels like constant
failure. I also worry the damage is done :(

~~~
noir_lord
I did at 36, Went from 250lbs to 185lbs in 7 months.

I have a spinal condition so no heavy weights (nothing over 35kg) so lots of
reps, pull-ups, calisthetics and eating a 1500 calorie a day diet (which
sucked but I adapted remarkably quickly), I've kept the weight off for 18mths
and I'm still 185.

It's a lot easier to maintain fitness than lose it and get it back.

Going from a 44" stretch back to a 32-34" (depending on brand) waist in jeans
was a nice feeling but the main improvement was energy levels, once I binned
the sugary energy drinks and got use to drinking a few cups of coffee
sweetened with a tea spoon of honey my energy levels through the day leveled
out and I started sleeping better as well (which given the spine stuff was a
major win).

I'll stay in shape for as long as I possibly can do.

~~~
lloeki
> I did at 36, Went from 250lbs to 185lbs in 7 months.

This is crazy fast, hope it doesn't bounce back during the next 3-5 years. 18
months in, you're well on your way, keep it up with the consistency!

~~~
noir_lord
I count the calories of every meal I eat and every drink as well ruthlessly so
unless something goes wrong with physics I'd be hard pressed to put on weight,
I actually have the opposite problem, I have to slightly over eat to keep
weight on.

------
colanderman
> The context is that many people pick up a shovel and do maximum effort
> despite living a sedentary life.

This. Shoveling after last week's storm was definitely the most concerted
exercise I've had in a year or more. I definitely felt at one point that my
heart was working _way_ too hard (for whatever physiological reason; likely
those outlined in the article) and forced myself to rest a few minutes,
despite not being physically exhausted. And I'm neither overweight nor have
high blood pressure.

~~~
FLUX-YOU
Did you do warmups before shoveling snow?

I can't imagine going outside and doing that in cold weather with cold
muscles.

~~~
choward
> Did you do warmups before shoveling snow?

Seriously? Who does this?

~~~
FLUX-YOU
Shoveling snow is obviously exercise. Does it seem weird to you that people
warm up before lifting or running?

~~~
choward
No. Neither does it to the average person. I'm just saying doing a warmup
before chores is not something that's common practice. Maybe it should be, but
you can't just assume it is because it seems like the right thing to do that
it's common knowledge.

------
mikestew
Sexist or not, I rarely see women shoveling snow. My wife will on occasion
(and even less so now that we live in Seattle), but it's almost always been me
because, well, I'm better built for it.

But what I didn't hear mentioned is that women have a much lower risk for
heart attacks until menopause. And I don't know that I've ever seen a 55 year
old woman shoveling snow (again, anecdata). If you strapping young lads were
raised right, you'd go down and do it for her since you already have the
shovel out. :-)

More so, shoveling snow is amazingly hard work on a level that most people
probably rarely experience. I'm a lifelong distance runner with a healthy
heart (though weeny little runner arms), and shoveling sure gets my heart
going. I can't imagine the strain on a 54 year old guy with a beer gut who
spends most of his day sitting. That _does_ sound like a recipe for a heart
attack.

~~~
roywiggins
On the other hand, women who do have heart attacks do not do as well, at least
partly because people assume they aren't having one.

[http://www.bbc.com/news/health-42590013](http://www.bbc.com/news/health-42590013)

~~~
klipt
Probably the same reason that men have lower breast cancer survival rates than
women - the common assumption is that it's a gender specific disease, which
delays diagnosis and treatment: [http://www.breastcancer.org/research-
news/20120517](http://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/20120517)

------
munchbunny
Sounds like one theory of the actual mechanism is the Valsalva maneuver?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsalva_maneuver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsalva_maneuver)

Could that be mitigated by just learning to not do it? People training in
martial arts often practice this by combining breathing with specific moves,
such as exhaling while punching. I imagine you could also learn to exhale as
you lift the shovel.

~~~
svalorzen
Not doing the Valsalva maneuver means that you break your spine. It works by
using the compressed air inside your lungs as support so that your abdominal
and back muscles can do their work.

This is the reason that when you go to a physiotherapist and they crack your
spine they ask you to exhale before, in order to be able to work without
needing to fight your internal pressure. There is a reason we evolved with the
instinct to do it.

Edit: to also comment on your note about martial arts: the very short scream
you do when throwing a punch or kick is precisely a way to induce a Valsalva
maneuver. Notice that you don't scream until you're out of breath, but you
exhale very fast and you stop precisely when you hit, forcing pressure inside
you to give you the support to need during the transfer of forces of the blow.

~~~
Paul-ish
> Not doing the Valsalva maneuver means that you break your spine.

This is only anecdote, but if I fail to do the valsalva when exercising I just
don't have as much power. I haven't broken my back yet.

The valsalva is useful at max effort, but doesn't seem necessary for a
sustained activity such as shoveling snow. If they find valsalva is a problem,
the answer may be not to shovel so much snow in one push.

~~~
svalorzen
You don't have as much power because your body automatically scales down to
prevent you from injuring yourself. In addition, performing an exercise wrong
doesn't mean that you automatically get injured, just that your chances of
hurting yourself go up. If you're lucky, you're never going to break anything
- this also depends on the kind of exercise you're doing and on its intensity.

As for the max-effort thing, the Valsalva maneuver can be performed at
different degrees of intensity. It's not like every time you do it you have
veins popping in your eyeballs, and I don't expect those untrained men
referenced in the article to do it very strongly. It is correlated with the
effort you're doing and on how much you're consciously compressing the air.

But yes, longer effort with less snow per shovel would definitely help.

------
bluedino
Snow shoveling for me has always caused insane lower back pain. I have a bad
back and have been laid up in bed for days because of it, even doing silly
things like bending over to pick something small up.

I used that as an excuse to buy a snowblower. Now, removing snow is as easy as
using a self-propelled lawnmower. It's one of those things I didn't realize I
was missing out on and wish I had bought years ago.

~~~
sjg007
Yep, people should hire someone or buy a snow blower. Or if you have too long
of a drive get a plow.

------
carbocation
Similarly, you're more likely to get a have sudden cardiac death while you're
running a longer race, even if marathoners are unlikely to suffer from sudden
cardiac death overall[1].

1 =
[http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1106468#t=abstrac...](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1106468#t=abstract)

My point in mentioning this is that there are multiple lines of evidence
suggesting that your risk of adverse cardiovascular outcomes is highest during
peak exercise, not that I think this would be particularly controversial.

------
protomyth
You could also skip buying the "snow shovel" that holds too much snow at a
time or is shaped badly for snow removal. You are not power lifting, just
clearing an area. Be slow and steady.

Instead of the crap snow shovel buy a grain shovel[1], one of the snow
pushers[2], or a Toro Power Shovel[3]. If you live in an area that gets a lot
of snow then hire a service.

1) [https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/stanley-fatmax-
fib...](https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/stanley-fatmax-fiberglass-d-
handle-grain-shovel?cm_vc=-10005)

2) [http://www.truevalue.com/product/Polar-Tuff-Snow-Plow-
Pusher...](http://www.truevalue.com/product/Polar-Tuff-Snow-Plow-
Pusher-38-In-/70231.uts?keyword=snow%20pusher)

3) [https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/snow-blowers/power-
shovel-...](https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/snow-blowers/power-shovel-38361)
my dad had one an it worked well

~~~
eyepulp
Will second the #2 recommendation above - I have a fair amount of sidewalk in
front of my house and the front of my office that I bought the snow pushers
for. They're fast and move a lot of snow with minimal heavy breathing. 4 years
and zero heart attacks. =)

------
nicolashahn
My takeaways: show shovelling can cause heart attacks because of the type of
exertion you're doing + the cold weather, and it's much more likely in men
because presumably more men than women shovel snow.

~~~
Johnny555
_it 's much more likely in men because presumably more men than women shovel
snow._

The article said that's a suspicion, but is not a conclusion:

 _The researchers say they suspect that shovelling caused heart attacks
because men are more likely than women to shovel snow. That may be true, or it
might be a sexist assumption. But there may be another explanation for the
findings: that women shovel snow in a way that doesn 't cause heart attacks._

~~~
freehunter
Isn't "all women are naturally and inherently better at shoveling snow" just
as sexist of an assumption as "women aren't as likely to shovel snow"?

If men are more likely to shovel snow, that's just statistics and sample sizes
and can be controlled for to determine its validity. If all women everywhere
are so much better at shoveling than men that it produces a statistically
measurable outcome in an unrelated study, that is massively huge news about
the innate physical differences between genders.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
This isn't a case of better or worse at shoveling snow, though. I mean, it
could be, but that's not what this implies. It simply states that maybe women
shovel in a way that doesn't lead to heart attacks so easily, which wouldn't
be that far into fantasy. It isn't the first time we've noticed such things.

For example, "throwing like a girl" is a thing for most girls, caused by the
way the body is put together after puberty (before puberty, males and females
throw similarly). There are some exercises that are great for men but not
women - it makes the pelvic bone get weird for some women (can't remember the
specifics. Its been 20 years).

Considering all this, it is quite possible that women naturally use different
movements and different muscle groups to do the same job because of their
physical differences. And perhaps this causes less strain. Or maybe it is
hormones.

You know, or maybe more men shovel than women - they just didn't want to rest
on such an assumption when they don't know it to be true.

------
steev
I mentioned this to my wife (who is a doctor) and her response was basically
"no duh." She said they learned about this in med school. Her explanation was
that this is typically happening to people who rarely exercise and then all of
a sudden are physically exerting themselves for a sustained period of time.

------
jakobegger
So I understand that sudden exercise can cause clots to become loose and get
stuck in one of your coronary arteries causing a heart attack.

But those clots are there whether you exercise or not, right? So they are
going to cause a heart attack at some point. So by avoiding exercise, you just
delay the inevitable.

Am I missing something?

~~~
analog31
The mechanism is that a plaque builds up in your coronary artery. This plaque
can rupture, spontaneously or if disturbed for some reason. Then your blood
starts rapidly forming a clot around the location of the rupture, and this is
what blocks the artery.

[https://www.verywell.com/stemi-st-segment-elevation-
myocardi...](https://www.verywell.com/stemi-st-segment-elevation-myocardial-
infarction-1746032)

------
imglorp
> To be perfectly scientific, the researchers have no way of knowing know that
> shovelling did the guys in.

Devil's advocate - perhaps it's some other activity altogether? Just for
example, being snowed in with the spouse could lead to some indoor exertion?

------
davidw
If you don't shovel it, you risk having it compact into an icy mess, which can
be unhealthy in its own way.

------
jpeloquin
Here's a quick review of the large studies which the article cites:

[1] says that snowfall in Canada is correlated with heart attacks in men, but
not in women. Shoveling is just a postulated cause.

[2] reports the proportions of different types of snow shoveling injuries in
people treated in US hospital emergency departments. I did not find any
statements in [2] to support the article's statement that "of the patients
with heart attack after shoveling snow, 80 per cent were men." Perhaps the
article's author had access to this data or read this result elsewhere. [2]
did say that 6.7% of the snow shoveling injuries were cardiac-related. 0.8% of
the injuries were fatal; all fatal injuries were cardiac-related.

Regarding gender as a risk factor, [2] did report that in patients age ≥ 55
years, males were twice as likely as females to have their injury be cardiac-
related. This suggests that being old and male does confer extra risk of snow
shoveling-related heart attack.

Note that [2] cites work saying that cold temperatures alone, even absent
physical exertion, are associated with heart attack in at-risk patients. Cold
temperature, independent of snow shoveling, could therefore be a cause for the
results in [1].

[1]
[http://www.cmaj.ca/content/189/6/E235](http://www.cmaj.ca/content/189/6/E235)
[2]
[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735675709...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735675709003714)

------
msie
In Vancouver, last winter, GlobalBC News made such a big deal out of people
not shovelling their sidewalks. They even went so far to shame some owners.
They seemed wreck-less about this issue considering that some people (like my
dad who's a senior) would be risking their life shovelling the snow. Can you
tell I hate the news sometimes? On some issues they really like to stir up
outrage.

[Edit]At one point people were talking about the issue at work over lunch.
Ugh.

~~~
astura
If the law says the homeowner is responsible for clearing the sidewalk in
front of their property (like in my town) then your dad needs to hire someone
to do the work if he can't. My neighbor is well into her 80s so she hires.
It's not even all that expensive. Not being physically able to do the work
yourself is no excuse for neglecting your responsibility as a homeowner. Your
dad should be shamed for putting pedestrians in danger.

~~~
sjg007
Or just change the law. City could do it, jobs programs and all. You think I'm
kidding but they do the streets anyway.

~~~
astura
Making a phonecall is a lot easier than changing City law

Of course, they are out doing the sidewalk of city property, they have really
nice machinery too.

~~~
sjg007
Yeah, it's kind of a scam that you don't own the sidewalk but they force you
to maintain it.

------
__s
Friend of my parents had this happen (& hey, we're in Canada)

Guy shovelled, went inside, had a shower, passed out in bed. Had to be rushed
to hospital, bedridden for a couple days. Survived, but now his wife's a bit
worrisome about him shovelling now

~~~
colanderman
Pure speculation but I wonder if that was caused by the rapid shift in
environmental temperature resulting in rapid blood vessel dilation? [1] Or do
you know it was a heart attack and not fainting?

[1] [https://answers.webmd.com/answers/5038612/why-do-i-faint-
or-...](https://answers.webmd.com/answers/5038612/why-do-i-faint-or-nearly-
faint-after-taking-a-shower)

------
neom
I loved that they put the word suspect in bold. I wish other publications
would do this.

------
ilamont
My cousin died in his late 30s while attempting to pull-start a chain saw in
very cold conditions. The explanation I heard was arteries and vessels
constrict in extreme cold, and combined with exertion triggered the heart
attack.

------
Camillo
> The correlation was true regardless of the patient's age, the presence or
> absence of cardiovascular risk like high blood pressure or other health
> conditions.

Perhaps we should say that a sedentary lifestyle is by itself a cardiovascular
risk factor, even if it affects the majority of the population. The same thing
goes for body weight: even if the majority of adults in the US are overweight,
we don't redefine that as the new normal weight, for good physiological and
medical reasons. Perhaps with physical activity we have already normalized an
unhealthy lifestyle.

------
krn1p4n1c
Get one of these: [0]:
[http://www.biltema.se/sv/Fritid/Tradgard/Vinter/Snoslade-200...](http://www.biltema.se/sv/Fritid/Tradgard/Vinter/Snoslade-2000034889/)
[1]:
[http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=39941...](http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3994134)
\- in the US

for moving 90% of the snow and if you have to scoop the last bit it's not
backbreaking.

------
vortico
From the linked paper
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20825768](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20825768)
>The average annual rate of snow shovel-related injuries and medical
emergencies was 4.15 per 100,000 population.

That's actually much more than I would have guessed, but is that still high
enough for the general public, or HN readers to care enough to change their
behavior (i.e. decision to shovel or not)?

For comparison, car related fatalities were 11.59 per 100,000 in 2016.

~~~
StanislavPetrov
> HN readers to care enough to change their behavior (i.e. decision to shovel
> or not)?

Where I live its not an option unless you enjoy being sued. You are legally
obligated to keep the sidewalks clear. If you don't, and someone "slips", you
are on the hook for a massive settlement.

I'd also like to point out that the 4.15 per 100,000 only counts the people
who went to the doctor or hospital for their injuries. You should have no
doubt that droves of people who end up with back injuries (like myself) from
shoveling do not seek medical treatment and are not counted in the statistics.

------
Spooky23
The other big killer is pooping.

No joke. If someone at potential risk of a heart attack seems winded or has
pain, don’t let them sit on the toilet. That clenching stops your heart.

~~~
nexys
What about kneeling down with the body straight?

------
mmmbacn
Cold constricts blood vessels, increasing blood pressure. Combine that with
the fact that shoveling is mostly strenuous on your arm muscles —- where upper
body exercise causes an increased HR and BP as compared to lower body exercise
[0].

[0]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4183232/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4183232/)

------
StanislavPetrov
>The context is that many people pick up a shovel and do maximum effort
despite living a sedentary life.

I'd like to point out that even those of us that work out regularly suffer
terribly from shoveling. As someone in his mid 40s who works out regularly,
daily exercise may prevent a shoveling-induced heart attack but it does
absolutely nothing to prevent crippling lower-back pain that lasts for
days/weeks.

------
Shivetya
I guess I am not a numbers guy, but in six months 68k suffer heart attacks and
60k in the other six months so its snow, for what 8k extra?

yeah it can be hard work and some people just keep going regardless of when
their body says stop. still I bet a lot of it is purely genetic, thresholds
are higher for some in the same health than others. regardless, just some
activity per day is good

------
djstein
title caught my eye. thought I'd share a little anecdotal evidence: grandpa
died from a heart attack while shoveling snow

------
0x00000000
I wonder if there is data on this about snow sports, it seems like it should
be common too. Skiing meets most of the same criteria - extreme cold,
surprisingly exhausting, high altitude/low oxygen and often getting
dehydrated. It is more of a sustained aerobic exercise vs. bursts of exertion
though.

------
robohamburger
Seems like an easy way to help fix this would be to require a snow blower or
have the city do it. Or at the very least something in place to make it easier
for someone at risk to not have to do the work themselves.

~~~
ashark
Or butt garages up to the street so there's no driveway to speak of. Oh no,
now I also don't have a front lawn to mow. How will I ever get over such a
loss.

~~~
robohamburger
The town I lived in you were responsible for shoveling and the overall
condition of the sidewalk. It was something like $200 fine for not shoveling.
I imagine there are probably many cities with similar laws.

~~~
ashark
Yeah, but the sidewalk’s like 1/10 the work of the driveway, if that. Heavier
the snow the bigger the difference, too, since you have to move the snow so
far from the middle to reach the side of the driveway.

~~~
robohamburger
I just shovel a path up my driveway to my house so no one slips. I don't think
there was a fine for driveways.

------
bovermyer
So basically I have a medical reason not to shovel snow. I'm OK with this.

------
timothycrosley
Does this also mean that areas that rarely get snowfall also have a lower rate
of heart attacks?

------
newswriter99
"The notion that women might shovel snow with less risk is an intriguing one
that just might make a good study."

Is it really sexist to just point out the obvious answer? Women have their men
go out and shovel the snow.

~~~
astura
Countless times in history the "obvious answer" has been dead wrong. It's
really bad science to just assume the "obvious" rather than test it.

They acknowledge so.

~~~
newswriter99
To ignore the obvious and simplest hypothesis because you're afraid of being
labelled politically incorrect is just as unscientific.

~~~
astura
This is such a ridiculous comment that I'm pretty sure your just trolling

Nobody's ignoring it, it was assumed by the authors as the most likely reason
for the disparity in _the sentence before the one you quoted._

------
justaman
Great uncle had a heart attack at 63 while shoveling snow.

------
overcast
Suit up, stay hydrated, and use a snowblower you knuckleheads.

~~~
mikestew
If I still lived in Indiana, for sure I'd buy a snow blower. But I'm not
taking up space in my garage for something I'll use once a year at _most_ in
the Seattle area. So I keep a snow shovel around, make sure to stay in good
shape, and remind myself that going all out versus shoveling at a sustainable
rate will probably at most make ten minutes worth of difference.

~~~
shoover
Oddly enough, even here in central Indiana a snowblower is only needed about
once in one or two seasons. Most snows are 2" or less and handled with the
shovel easier than getting the snowblower out and warmed up. But when you need
it, you need it. Fortunately it fits easily under a workbench with the handle
folded over when not in use.

~~~
mikestew
_Oddly enough, even here in central Indiana a snowblower is only needed about
once in one or two seasons._

Yeah, I forgot that before we moved that it didn't seem to snow as much as it
used to. Grew up spending entire winters cross-country skiing across the
fields. Not so much as I got older. Wanna hear an old man's stories about the
Blizzard of '78? :-)

------
Red_Tarsius
Key takeaways:

> _Researchers... looked at more than 128,000 patients admitted to hospital
> for a heart attack, and more than 68,000 heart attack deaths in Quebec
> between 1981 and 2014 from November to April. They also got weather
> information... and used it to track snowfall prior to the admission to
> hospital and /or death._

> _Among the men, a third of the heart attacks occurred the day after a
> snowfall. The association between shovelling and heart attack was very
> strong. If the snow fell for two to three days, the association between
> shovelling and a heart attack was even stronger. The correlation was true
> regardless of the patient 's age, the presence or absence of cardiovascular
> risk like high blood pressure or other health conditions._

> _But here 's the thing. The correlation was only true for men – not women.
> The researchers say they suspect that shovelling caused heart attacks
> because men are more likely than women to shovel snow. That may be true, or
> it might be a sexist assumption. But there may be another explanation for
> the findings: that women shovel snow in a way that doesn't cause heart
> attacks._

> _Men age 50 and older with heart disease should avoid shovelling snow
> period._

Why is it sexist to assume that snow shoveling is mostly done by men? It
sounds more plausible than secret shoveling techniques.

~~~
Dirlewanger
Because discussing anything gender/identity-related nowadays has become bereft
of all logic and always comes with emotional baggage.

~~~
astura
Jesus, no, not at all, I have no idea why you'd jump to such wild conclusion
as it's actually _very informative and an important piece of information._ I
have no idea what sort of "emotion baggage" would cause the authors to write
that, that would be really odd.

They are merely acknowledging the premise is based _solely_ on gender roles
and not any sort of data they have collected or any preliminary observations.

The alternative would be something like "we drove around town for an hour and
observed that 80% of people shoveling snow at that time were men so our
hypothesis is the reason for the sex difference is men do most of the
shoveling. This needs more rigorous data collection to verify." Or even "in
our personal experience most of the household shoveling is done by men."

It could have been worded better to be more clear.

~~~
Dirlewanger
>It could have been worded better to be more clear.

But it wasn't, and what we have from them is a needlessly adversarial
conclusion. I don't know why you're trying to make excuses for them. This is
the norm for news outlets nowadays.

