
Closed city - lelf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_city
======
cpeterso
This reminds me of China Miéville's novel _The City & The City_, ostensibly a
police procedural where two cities overlay the same physical space:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_%26_the_City](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_%26_the_City)

~~~
13of40
I read that several years ago, and my impression was it was inspired by how
different subcultures occupy the same space in real life cities, but it's
taboo for them to communicate or sometimes even acknowledge each others'
presence.

------
atemerev
Getting a visitor's permit is (or maybe was — I don't know about the situation
of last 2-3 years) relatively straightforward even for foreign tourists.
That's in Russia, I don't know much about China.

Having grown up in relatively closed city of Omsk, Russia, I knew (like every
other boy of my age) the exact coordinates of probable nuclear strikes in case
of war (ICBM silos perimeter, tank production plant officialy known as
transport machinery plant, nuclear weapons maintenance plants etc.) All of
which were supposedly secret, but everyone knew everything anyway.

~~~
ash
I was born in the city of Severomorsk.¹ Current population 50,000+. I'm living
in another city now. And I can't go the place of my birth unless I prepare the
papers two weeks before the visit.² Forget about the spontaneous visits to my
friends living there.

¹
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severomorsk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severomorsk)

² My friend helped me with the papers. I don't remember exactly, but simply
saying "I want to visit my friends" is not enough. It's more complicated than
that.

~~~
atemerev
Do you still hold the Russian passport? Also, yes, I haven't said it doesn't
take time, unfortunately.

------
rplnt
I once read a blog about a guy that was hitchhiking in China and ended up in a
city that he was escorted out from (first being threatened with jail, deleting
photos, etc). He couldn't find it on a map either (but he just knew the main
road which he used, not exactly where he left it, so..).

Apparently there were lots of kids with badges, many sport venues. His guess
was a some sort of talent building city for olympics.

edit: Here it is through translate (haven't checked how bad it is)
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hogy.sk%2Fako-
som-v-cine-nasiel-co-som-najst-nemal)

------
nxzero
America had secret cities too at one point; from 1942 until 1949, Oak Ridge, a
city of 75,000 people did not exist on maps.

[http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2012/06/the-secret-
city/100...](http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2012/06/the-secret-city/100326/)

~~~
dreamcompiler
Likewise Los Alamos, NM and Richland, WA as the article mentions.

------
dreamcompiler
I'm curious about US cities that are effectively closed today. What happens if
you try to drive to Pilcher, OK or Love Canal, NY?

~~~
warkdarrior
Since both cities are highly contaminated with chemicals from mining and from
toxic-waste disposal, I'd venture to guess that the result of driving there is
that you will die a slow, painful death from poisoning.

~~~
HelloImDumb
Love Canal is not a city, it's a neighborhood of Niagara Falls, roughly 16
acres of the worst of which is fenced. Since the toxins have been buried
probably nothing would happen unless you went digging around the soil and
eating with dirty hands; or maybe spent a few years living in a tent above it.

Perhaps a more interesting case is Centralia PA.

~~~
whafro
I visited Centralia several years ago, and it was fascinating. I don't recall
pedestrian access being impeded at the time, but there was definitely gas and
smoke rising from a few spots around town. I happened to visit on a cloudy
morning, and it had an eerie, ethereal feel to it.

There were several areas where the road was damaged, and it was clear that it
wouldn't be wise to put too much weight over top, but there are still people
living in the area.

------
xg15
Why the strong focus on Russian/Ex-Soviet cities in the article, though? It
seems odd that there is a detailed list of present-day closed cities in Russia
but only passing mention of other countries.

~~~
cooper12
The most likely explanation is because that's where they were the most
prevalent or most well-documented. The lead of the article notes: "Closed
cities are a feature of heavily militarized countries and secretive regimes,
and many still exist in the successor countries to the Soviet Union."

Or it could just be that whoever added the content has Russia-centric
knowledge or interests and contributed that. Wikipedia knowingly suffers from
systematic bias [0] and many articles will have a tag like this one [1] for
being too US-centric. The problem with addressing that is that most editors
are American and don't really have access to other language reliable sources.
Though in this case the sources are in English so it could just be that
English-language sources all focus on that area.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Systemic_bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Systemic_bias)

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globalize)

------
sandworm101
I would add to the list many US "cities". If we define a city as a community
large enough to meat the general needs of its inhabitants (health, commerce,
work/home etc) then lots of places in the US qualify as closed cities. Most of
the large military bases a de facto cities, and they are closed.

Louisiana State prison (aka Angola) is a closed city imho. It has a golf
course, farms, an air strip and cemetery.

My point is that wikipedia gives the impression that such cities are the mark
of oppressive or secretive regimes, listing only a handful of formerly-closed
cities in the US. And those were all relate in some way to the Manhattan
project. But there are plenty of other closed cities in the US of today ... so
um well ... read into that what you will.

~~~
hueving
A closed city is not a prison keeping people in. It keeps people out.

It's easy to get to the Louisiana State prison, just commit a crime
appropriate to the security level of the prison and make going to that prison
part of your plea bargain.

~~~
sandworm101
By wikipedia's def, a closed city is one where anyone entering has to provide
identification and a reason for them to be there. You don't get into a large
prison without a reason. You don't enter an army base without good reason.

~~~
hueving
By that definition every country with visa requirements is a closed city.

------
superuser2
This concept is interesting as a way to secure critical government employees
against espionage and extortion.

It would seem much more difficult to provide security/surveillance details for
critical personnel (to prevent assassination or compromise by foreign agents)
and their families (to prevent kidnap/extortion) living in bustling open
cities, than to provide housing in secure facilities where such threats cannot
even get near them.

If I were (say) Iran, I might not want my nuclear scientists living among the
masses.

------
known
45% of USA is uninhabited :)

------
ukoki
"No 404 Factory of China National Nuclear Corp"

AKA factory not found.

