
In democracies, voters warm to secret services - privong
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lloyd-security-commentary/commentary-in-democracies-voters-warm-to-secret-services-idUSKBN1EG231
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timtas
> safeguards against the services going “rogue”

Safeguards...LOL. We’re not even permitted to ask what they deem to be secret.
Congress has fully abdicated any oversight, notwithstanding the occasional
theatrical performance. Frankly, they’re probably scared. Lindsay Graham
recently warned a sitting president he had better not cross the FBI.

~~~
mschuster91
> Lindsay Graham recently warned a sitting president he had better not cross
> the FBI.

Said president has a history of at least tiptoeing on the thin line between
lawful and criminal, if not outright crossing it. In his very own interest he
should not cross the FBI - either because of obstruction of justice or because
it would provoke a constitutional crisis.

~~~
arcseco
"Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways
from Sunday at getting back at you," \- Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

Can you imagine if J. Edgar Hoover had access to the low level detail that is
currently available to the intelligence communities? Both Truman and Kennedy
had mulled over dismissing Hoover as FBI Director, but figured that the
political fallout to them and their party for doing so would trounce the
benefits. Now 50 years later the issue has metastasized and become extremely
politicized.

~~~
mschuster91
> "Let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six
> ways from Sunday at getting back at you,"

That secret services actually _have_ that level of leverage over sitting
presidents and other politicians is the core problem.

Can't people elect honest people (i.e. not bought off by
BigCapital/Russians/Chinese, doesn't have multiple cases of rape or sexual
harassment, countless extramarital affairs, doesn't have videos circulating
with them showing Nazi salutes or similar) any more?

Seems like any random cat and dog could run for office and actually win the
post than the bunch of entrenched politicians. That people don't give a flying
f..k what their representatives do and give them a kick into their behinds
when they get caught being bribed - and instead even reelecting them - is way
beyond my comprehension.

And the danger is not just people like Hoover exploiting the leverage, IMHO
that's a minuscule threat. What the FBI can find out about a politician can
most likely be also discovered by Russia or China and turned into leverage
there, with way more potential for damage. And: just because you're president
this does not mean you should be able to get off scot free with collusion with
Russians or with rape. Or with _anything_. Public _servants_ serve the
constituents and have to be accountable, otherwise it's no longer a democracy.

~~~
arcseco
The Secret Service is not the principal federal law enforcement agency of the
United States. The SS cannot take fabricated political hit pieces and massage
them into a form of intelligence documentation from which they garner
subpoenas from. And not just any subpoena, an administrative subpoena in the
form of a National Security Letter under title V of the Patriot Act. From
there they can review all email/search communications and telephone
communications for as long as the NSA has been collecting records, and
potentially use that information to manipulate an incoming president. I think
you may underestimate the power of the intelligence community. Senior
individuals in these institution I would suggest may be more influential than
the sitting politicians that they work for.

"Show me the man and I'll find you the crime." -Lavrentiy Beria

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mLuby
Not this voter, so long as bulk collection and national security letters are
abused. Terrorists cannot capture my government; spy agencies could facilitate
a coup.

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Animats
China's internal control organizations aren't that secret. When they don't
want you to do something, they come and tell you not to do it. Naomi Wu, the
maker and blogger from Shenzhen, commented obliquely that the authorities came
to visit her because she was becoming highly visible outside China. They told
her they didn't have a problem.

This is a traditional Chinese solution. China's governments have been into
social control, and in fear of a peasant uprising, for centuries. As people
became more mobile, the control systems changed, but the intent didn't.

If the Bitcoin crowd in China gets in trouble, it will be because they ignored
the heavy hinting that they should stop doing some things.

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eecc
Anti-western — for lack of a more appropriate definition — Terrorism has
killed less people than car accidents, tabagism or alcoholism. Yet we spend
and jeopardize all that precious liberty that generations won by getting shot
at by riot police. We could just stop droning peasants with grotesquely
sophisticated weapons and obtain a more durable effect on our own security

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
tabagism. An uncommon term that encompasses the acute and chronic, physical
and psychological effects of tobacco abuse, e.g., tobacco dependence, tobacco
poisoning.

Had to look that one up.

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Tharkun
Which voters, exactly? The same voters who voted for Brexit based on false
promises and politics of misinformation? Or perhaps the same voters who
thought they were voting for affordable health care but against Obamacare?

The world is safer now than ever before, but I don't think we have secret
services to thank for it.

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mr_spothawk
NO! WE DON'T!

