
Brave Browser, wiping history still leaves trace of visited sites - turblety
https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/9929
======
oefrha
> It doesn't seem to be anywhere (in text) in: /Users/mark/Library/Application
> Support/BraveSoftware

Of course it's not in text. It's a SQLite3 database:

    
    
      $ sqlite3 ~/'Library/Application Support/BraveSoftware/Brave-Browser/Default/Top Sites' .dump
      PRAGMA foreign_keys=OFF;
      BEGIN TRANSACTION;
      CREATE TABLE meta(key LONGVARCHAR NOT NULL UNIQUE PRIMARY KEY, value LONGVARCHAR);
      INSERT INTO meta VALUES('mmap_status','-1');
      INSERT INTO meta VALUES('version','4');
      INSERT INTO meta VALUES('last_compatible_version','4');
      CREATE TABLE top_sites (url LONGVARCHAR PRIMARY KEY,url_rank INTEGER,title LONGVARCHAR,redirects LONGVARCHAR);
      INSERT INTO top_sites VALUES('https://chrome.google.com/webstore?hl=en',0,'Web Store',NULL);
      COMMIT;
    

This is actually a database inherited from Chromium, so I'm not sure if the
issue is inherited from Chromium.

Edit: Tried this on Chromium 86.0.4185.0, top sites db is cleared after
clearing all browsing data, so probably not inherited from Chromium.

(Btw I wasn't able to repro on Brave because however many times I open
news.ycombinator.com, it simply won't register in top sites -.-)

~~~
slezyr
They still use 83.0.4103.116 even with that it's easy to mess chromium up with
your patches. I don't think it has malicious intend, just a bug.

[1]: [https://brave.com/latest/](https://brave.com/latest/)

~~~
oefrha
83.0.4103.116 is current stable. Chromium itself is distributed in snapshot
form (I cask installed it) so naturally it's ahead — kind of like Canary,
which is currently at 86.0.4194.0.

------
AzzieElbab
This is a bug, have you guys seen a software bug before? What is it with the
appetite for outrage? Using brave on Android devices and not planning to
switch

~~~
anonymousDan
Ya I find the outright hatred for Brave on HN a bit bizarre. The more
sustainable alternatives we have to Google Chrome hegemony the better IMHO. I
say this as both a FF and Brave user.

~~~
blocked_again
You do know Brave is built on top of Chromium which is funded by Google right?
I won't call a browser that relies so much on Google as a sustainable
alternative to Chrome.

~~~
modzu
same can be said for Firefox though (+300 million a year comes from google):

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation#Financing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation#Financing)

~~~
pixelatedindex
The browser rendering engine for Firefox (Gecko) is independent from Chromium,
and as such isn't really reliant on Google. Mozilla's reliance on Google is
solely for displaying Google as the default search engine.

~~~
modzu
sure the _engine_ is not descended from google code but if mozilla didnt have
google's funding they would essentially go bankrupt and consequently ff would
go byebye. id call that dependence.

------
kirubakaran
They are an adtech company. That should be all we need to know, right? I'm
willing to change my mind, so far it doesn't make sense to use Brave.

~~~
eredengrin
> That should be all we need to know, right?

Not really, their whole proposition is to do ads in a privacy respecting way,
and you always have the option to just turn them off entirely. The payments
model they have for websites is my favorite thing about the browser and I'd
love to see more models like it catch on. Giving the ability to easily fund
content creators by just filling up your wallet periodically (without having
to view ads if you don't want) is a great idea. Perhaps the execution leaves
something to be desired, but I wish people would at least discuss the
important ideas it brings rather than simply dismiss it as an evil browser and
recommend Firefox + ublock origin (which, while a good temporary solution, is
ultimately just kicking the can down the road and doesn't do a whole lot to
solve the root issues).

~~~
john-shaffer
> you always have the option to just turn them off entirely

This is not fully accurate. You have to explicitly find and enable ads if you
want them. They are off by default.

~~~
eredengrin
Thanks for the correction. I like the idea of what Brave does, but I'm too
reliant on some Firefox features (tree style tabs + containers) so I don't
actually use it myself and sometimes get it a bit wrong.

------
pschastain
Brave Browser continues to behave in ways that are contrary to their stated
principles. I dropped the browser a couple of months ago on the heels of the
bitcoin affiliate link scandal and went back to Safari and Firefox.

I am keeping an eye on Braver Browser, a fork of Brave with the intention of
removing the questionable behavior: [https://github.com/braver-
browser](https://github.com/braver-browser)

~~~
smt88
What's the advantage of Braver over Firefox? Is it just that you're trying to
get ad blocking on iOS?

~~~
pschastain
I don't use IOS (yet) so "no" on that front. I tried Brave and was happy with
it until these recent revelations, so upon hearing about Braver I simply
decided to keep an eye on it.

~~~
smt88
Firefox with gorhill's uBlock (search GitHub for official links, because there
are imposters) is less buggy than Brave. I highly recommend it.

------
girst
well, compared to undisclosed affiliate marketing for trading sites[1],
soliciting of donations without consent[2] or the recent redirection through
affiliate links[3], this seems pretty tame.

[1]: [https://github.com/brave/brave-
browser/issues/8793](https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/8793)

[2]: [https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-
br...](https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-browser-no-
longer-claims-to-fundraise-on-behalf-of-others-so-thats-nice/)

[3]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23442027](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23442027)

~~~
bartread
I've disliked Brave from the beginning. Initially because of the pretentious -
and frankly appropriated - name, but now for the much more substantive reasons
you've cited.

Seriously, if you want a browser that gives you control over your data and
privacy, use Firefox. It doesn't do any of this shady nonsense.

~~~
rattray
How can I get these two features on Firefox:

1\. Block scripts on certain domains

2\. Block ads & tracking (including on Android)

Those are my favorite Brave features. How do I get them on Firefox?

~~~
ciarannolan
On mobile:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fe...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.mozilla.fenix&hl=en_US)
\+ enable the extention "uBlock Origin" in the settings (not sure the exact
steps while writing this, sorry)

On desktop: regular Firefox + [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/ublock-origin/)

In uBlock Origin, there is a setting that disables Javascript by default
(which I use). You can then enable it temporarily or permanently on a per-site
basis.

~~~
rattray
Thank you! Was very easy. Liking this so far.

------
meerita
See it. These new browsers claiming "privacy" aren't private at all.

~~~
josu
It is more private than Chrome. And full privacy probably doesn't exist.

~~~
techntoke
If that is all they got going I don't foresee them lasting much longer. At
least Chrome and Firefox have their own open source browsing engines.

------
binaryblitz
Someone posted on the GH issue that someone posted the GH issue on HackerNews.

[https://github.com/brave/brave-
browser/issues/9929#issuecomm...](https://github.com/brave/brave-
browser/issues/9929#issuecomment-654154773)

------
fortran77
I'm glad I didn't believe the hype. I just run edge, and I have a powershell
script that runs on startup, shutdown to wipe everything.

------
KingOfCoders
Lost all trust in Brave some time ago, back to FF.

~~~
djvu97
FF?

~~~
wizzwizz4
Firefox. You don't need to change many settings to make it much more private
than Brave.

~~~
TacoToni
What settings would you recommend to change?

~~~
nix23
Partially points of that list:

[https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/firefox-
hardening...](https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/firefox-hardening-
guide/)

------
SmokeyHamster
I wonder if this is true of "private window" mode as well?

------
bb123
Is it fair to _ever_ say that clearing the history completely removes all
traces of visited sites? I have always operated under the assumption that
_some_ trace will remain pretty much forever.

~~~
jonathanstrange
Why would you make this assumption? It seems perfectly reasonable to me to
assume, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that a program actually
does what it claims to do.

~~~
rydre
I sometimes do computer forensics for clients and you can be sure that you
leave traces. You'd need to wipe out the area of the disk over and over again
to fully remove it (sometimes it'll still remain despite that, for undisclosed
reasons).

~~~
willis936
“undisclosed reasons”

There comes a point where I simply won’t believe in magic. Whether it’s 3
writes or 7 writes, at some point there is not enough contextual information
left on rigid magnetic media to recover any amount of useable information.

~~~
giancarlostoro
They might be referring to SSDs which would also be bad to do overwrites on
since you are essentially killing the life of the drive. Better off just
outright filling up a whole drive.

------
niftylettuce
If you need an alternative to Brave, then see
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708688](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708688).
This comment also shares the auto-suggestions-for-profit which is another
reason I'm not using it. Since I cannot use DDG nor Brave, the only
alternative (besides the currently bloated Firefox -- in my biased opinion) is
ungoogled-chromium.

~~~
nichch
Please read
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708986](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708986)
before deciding on which browser to switch to.

“Currently bloated Firefox” is a baseless claim in my opinion.

~~~
tibet_13
I've been using ff for years and had no problem with it. Uninstalled Brave
after the affiliate link incident.

