
Why Great Employees Quit – Instead of Admitting They're Unhappy - rrauenza
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2018/05/14/why-great-employees-quit-instead-of-admitting-theyre-unhappy
======
LeifCarrotson
Liz used the past tense to describe the environment in which the manager
previously held power over the employee - but the imbalance continues even
after giving notice and leaving.

The employee needs to not burn bridges. They need to walk on eggshells through
the exit interview. They need to maintain this secrecy long after leaving!

There's a lot that I would love to tell my past managers. Stuff I might tell a
trusted co-worker over drinks, or would only tell non-work friends and family,
because I know people who have been burned by opening their mouth and being
too honest.

If you're a company owner or a manager with a lot of sway in your company and
want to fix this, here are a couple tips:

1\. Be transparent and honest: criticize yourself and your company when you
deserve it, in emails or memos, not just verbally. A culture that tolerates
introspection and criticism is more likely to tolerate external criticism.

2\. Do not be completely honest and transparent when discussing occasional
failures of past employees: it's all too easy to remember mistakes and forget
the thousand times they got it right. Make sure that your current employees
will know they will be spoken of positively after they leave.

3\. Make sure that your employees are friends with each other (and yourself,
if possible) outside of work. Everyone needs friends, it's hard to make
friends as an adult, and even Gallup uses "do you have friends at work" as an
indicator of company health. This will mean that employees will have social
conversations during and around work: this is good, they will be more
productive if work is a happy place and not sterile, and the cost of a few
minutes here and there is much less than having unhappy, lonely people
trudging through the work day. If they are trustworthy friends they will be
able to communicate honestly.

4\. If you are told something negative, don't take it out on them, fix the
problem!

~~~
fred_is_fred
You don't need to walk on eggshells in an exit interview. You can decline it
or if that seems rude you answer like an athlete after a game. I've said "it
was just time to move on to something new" about a dozen times in the last one
I did, rather than "my bosses boss doesn't think I add any value and he lives
in another country so I don't know if I can change that opinion, nor do I
really want to spend 2 years trying to do so".

~~~
ctvo
>> You don't need to walk on eggshells in an exit interview

While walking on eggshells:

>> I've said "it was just time to move on to something new" about a dozen
times in the last one I did

Possible outcomes being honest in an exit interview:

\- You help the company you're leaving improve its processes and culture

\- You burn bridges by hurting feelings of people in your industry

\- You may harm the chances of a rehire

\- You may harm the chances of a bad reference

Out of that list, the only way to get the first outcome is to create a culture
of good will where the employee WANTS to help or feels safe enough to help
without fearing reprisal.

It's not easy to accomplish and in most instances people will err on being
polite.

~~~
joezydeco
_You may harm the chances of a bad reference_

Unless you work in an incredibly close-knit field where everybody knows
everybody else, this is a myth and it needs to stop propagating.

You can choose references from personal friends and co-workers that will
stress your positive results. The company as whole will never say anything
positive or negative for fear of legal reprisal. If you worked for a bad
actor, then burn the bridge and don't worry about retribution via reference
checks.

~~~
CtrlAltT5wpm
>The company as whole will never say anything positive or negative for fear of
legal reprisal.

It may depend on the field, yes, but this doesn't reflect what I've seen. From
my view, unless you're on the lowest rungs of a monster field like retail,
most fields tend to be small, and get smaller the longer you're in, as you're
transitioning to being a long-timer. People know each other, and people talk.
Even if the company itself will never say anything positive or negative, the
people within talk to each other. It's incredibly easy to reach out on
'unofficial channels' to find some bits of information, and suddenly, a
promising prospect never pans out. As for legal liability, all you know is
that you were never hired; if you're lucky, you get a 'we found a more
suitable candidate.' As far as liability is concerned, it's easy to sidestep.

------
badrabbit
In my experience, few good employees quit because they are unhappy. People are
good at enduring unhappiness for money,opportunities or acheiving a goal.

From what I have seen, it is usually some political or administrative
mistreatment that ends up being "the straw that broke the camel's back".

I will accept low pay, a bad manager ,cruel colleagues and a ridiculous work
environment so long as I get to do the technical work I have passion for, I
don't get treated unequally (except where objective meritocracy applies) and I
don't get lied to by my manager. Of course, it should go without saying -- if
the competition scouts me and offers better conditions I wouldn't reject that
offer.

Corporate america plays too many "games" against rank and file workers.

It makes me a bit envious of all the Enterpreneurs and employees of new
startups. The Business hasn't gotten old enough to think up all these devious
schemes to save a buck by mistreating workers. I wonder,Is it like getting
into a brand new marriage?

Sorry for my pessimistic post, can only speak from my own personal experience.
I get attached to coworkers easily and had to quit a few jobs because of b.s.

~~~
Clubber
>few good employees quit because they are unhappy.

>From what I have seen, it is usually some political or administrative
mistreatment that ends up being "the straw that broke the camel's back".

That makes them unhappy. It's rampant in the US. Programming is a creative
endeavor, but most managers only know prod-ops or call center type management.
You can't manage creatives that way. We actually had a guy a couple companies
ago try to get developers to do time cards like at McDonalds. Another guy
decided developers didn't deserve offices, so he kicked all the developer
leads out and brought managers from another group to take their offices. That
made our DBA of 5 years resign, and he was the best I've ever seen. It's like
they don't even consider the effects their decisions have on morale;
completely oblivious.

I think scrum makes development miserable, but it's a lot of shit. If I work a
few 60-80 hour weeks, I don't expect to be scolded for leaving early once
crunch time is over, yet it happens over and over again.

There's all kinds of stupidness in corporate America. It didn't used to be
like this. Maybe it was but I was young and willingly suffered fools. If I had
to boil it down, it's lack of trust and inability to treat different employees
differently. They create policies for the lowest common denominator, like work
from home. If one guy is a slacker, instead of firing his ass, they force
everyone else to work in the office because, "well if I let you do it, I have
to let everyone else do it." No, grow a sack and fire the slackers; otherwise,
that's all you'll have left.

All this comes from big corporate managers. Smaller companies are usually
better, but not always. If they hire a corporate bozo, they'll quickly go down
hill too. M&A ruins a lot of great companies too.

What I do to combat it is have 6 months of income or 10 months of expenses
saved up (around that) just for this purpose. If a place becomes too annoying,
I just leave and take a couple of months off to unwind and write stuff I like
to write. If I'm not dealing with a corporate environment, I can get things
done 2-5x faster. Corporate America just sucks the soul right out of you.

~~~
some_account
You don't get respect because non tech managers see you as factory workers.

~~~
Clubber
Sadly, a lot of this came from CIOs, so even tech managers see people as
factory workers. In my experience, tech management is just so bad in the US,
it's bewildering. It's like they got their training by watching Office Space.

~~~
some_account
Yeah I agree. And scrum is just a way to micro manage developers and take away
decision power from engineers. I'm getting tired of the entire industry.

~~~
Clubber
Yes, me to. It's sad, I once loved it so. I have no idea what I would leave it
for though.

------
chrisbennet
Positive reason: One quality of good developers is that they seek out new
knowledge and want to “grow”. At some point, even in a great company, you may
run out of ways to do that and you need to move on in order to keep growing.

Negative reason: Employees want to feel valued. If the pay doesn’t keep up
with what they are worth, they’re going to feel the need to move on. A counter
offer may only confirm that there employer really _did_ know how valuable they
were but decided not to pay them for it - until faced with someone giving
their notice.

~~~
eeks
In any job you must be given the opportunity to grow. The best employers will
give you that chance over multiple dimensions: knowledge, wealth, reknown,
responsibilities. Most employers will give you only one dimension. As long as
you keep growing along that dimension all is well. But that single dimension
gives a lot of leverage to your employer. He can use it to coerce you and
force you back into line. When that happens, it’s time to go.

------
SteveJS
Understanding whether your reports are happy or not is part of being a
manager. It’s a core reason to have 1-1’s and if you don’t ask reports if they
are happy, doing what excites them, and whether anything should change, you
shouldn’t expect them to offer it up unasked. If they do offer it up unasked,
you are incredibly lucky and should treat it as a gift. 1-1’s are not a
panecea, but they do provide a forum to have more difficult conversations when
it’s still possible to do something about it.

~~~
castillar76
Exactly! Managers should be having regular 1:1s with direct reports—it
mystifies me the number of managers I've met that concede that they only have
these once a year at performance review time. How does anyone expect an
employee to improve if they're not getting frequent, clear feedback on what's
going right and wrong?

------
sreyaNotfilc
In response to Vera, I would say "No, he doesn't owe anything".

He's an employee, plain and simple. He got paid to fulfill a service. He did
that service well. He then wants to fulfill services elsewhere and decided to
do so. Tasks and services were completed, what more can you really ask?

I'm in the same boat. After over a decade working at the same place, I feel
its my time to go as well (after all, I want to build a business instead of
just be an employee). I know that I'm probably the guy in the company's plans,
but I had to look at it this way - You're always needed wherever you go if you
do your job as well as you can.

------
harry8
So often the only way to get a pay promotion in development is to quit and go
somewhere else for more money. Take the counter offer and your boss is now
resentful.

Developer pay is terrible. Compare the pay of people who are really, really
good to a mid-range tax accountant at a large firm to see just how bad it is.

~~~
mrep
> Developer pay is terrible. Compare the pay of people who are really, really
> good to a mid-range tax accountant at a large firm to see just how bad it
> is.

Um, what? According to this article [0], top CPA's make $125,000 which is less
than new grads make in big tech (Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft...)

[0]:
[https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/051415/how-m...](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/051415/how-
much-do-cpas-make.asp)

~~~
RikNieu
Most developers are not new ivy league grads in big tech...

~~~
mrep
You definitely don't need to go to an ivy league to get into big tech. Here
are the schools for which the friends I made during my internship went to:
University of Illinois, Purdue University, University of Maryland, MIT,
Villanova, University of Florida, University of Minnesota, and University of
Massachusetts.

Definitely some top schools like MIT but most were from your run of the mill
state school.

------
maxxxxx
People would more likely admit that they are unhappy if companies actually
listened and made an effort to address the issue. In most cases your complaint
will just get shrugged off. I am not talking about trivial stuff but things
that may make you want to change jobs.

Despite publicly saying how important employees are in the end the real
message is usually "If you don't like it here we will not do anything about
it".

~~~
castillar76
Yep. One thing that will drive me absolutely up the wall is feeling ignored. I
know that I will not always agree with everything my employer does: that's
fine. But there is (to me) nothing more demoralizing than having my company
make a decision I don't agree with while ignoring or openly dismissing
employee feedback about it. If you're getting feedback from employees that
they disagree, at least acknowledge it and explain the (real, not market-
speak) reasons for the decision. Don't just brush it off.

Better yet, if you make a decision and get a lot of blow-back on it, sit and
consider whether it's really the right thing to do. Not every decision is the
right one, and the willingness to back up and say, "Yes, you're right: that
wasn't the right approach, let's try this instead" (or even just "we hear you
and we're reconsidering this decision in light of that") is the mark of a
place I'd like to work for.

------
hullsean
Why call it quitting? That’s just an old world frame. a job should last a
lifetime.

i rather think each project is a learning experience for both company &
candidate.

i’ve had 200 jobs in my career. it’s going great!

------
Notbrainiac
This article is not about Employees, its about Managers withouth leader
skills.

------
dalacv
The grass is always greener in the other side.

~~~
__bee
That's not always the only reason, `people leave managers, they don't leave
companies for greener grass`

------
Karishma1234
Whenever I left the job I left it for following reasons:

1\. I realised that my employer is not even keeping my salary up with
inflation. There was simple no periodic review process. No refresher equity or
annual appraisal.

2\. I realised that my manager simply does not have a plan for me to evolve
into a leader despite me taking initiative he is too scared that I might fail.
If you wont let me take initiative and fail I am not going to get better. You
cant learn swimming in a tea cup.

3\. Lying leaders. If your inherent revenue model is not based adding solid
value to your customers who are doing their honest work you wont last long.
The bubble eventually bursts. Honesty in leadership matter lot more than we
think.

~~~
beamatronic
In 20+ years I have never had a manager with a plan for me

