
Facebook Is No Longer the Most Popular Social Network for Teens - cjdrake
http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/10/24/facebook_and_teen_user_trends.html
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devindotcom
It's great that young people are diversifying in this way, but isn't it a
little apples to oranges? You don't use Facebook to send disappearing images
to each other, you don't use Instagram to plan events or remind you of
birthdays, and you don't use Snapchat to share pictures of your cat with
followers around the world. They're very different things, yet they are all
lumped into the category "social network" because you can make connections
with people. By that standard, practically any online service or platform
these days is a social network!

Still, it's very significant that Facebook is not the go-to thing for lots of
online connective tasks (even if they do own Instagram). People don't want all
their interactions to be on one platform for the same reason no one puts all
their eggs in the same basket, and in addition, there are nicer baskets out
there to try out!

~~~
meowface
Absolutely. It is a complete misunderstanding if they're considering services
like Facebook, Instagram, and Snapchat as somehow mutually exclusive.

You can only really compare Facebook with services like Google+, Myspace, and
Orkut; and even then, many people have active accounts on multiple of those
services.

~~~
twiceaday
Isn't that how it starts though? It is no longer possible to disrupt Facebook
on its terms. You have to offer something completely different at first then
slowly add Facebooks key features to provide a smooth transition.

~~~
ryanmerket
Is there a precedent you're referring to? Because I believe all of the above
social networks started as... social networks.

~~~
draz
"Innovator's Dilemma" describes a similar process. An underdog comes along,
creates an inferior product or a product addressing slightly different needs,
and then slowly but surely builds up its feature set to address the big dog's
other customers.

~~~
ryanmerket
Again, where's the precedent in the world of social networking...

~~~
al1x
What does it matter?

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morgante
To be clear, this doesn't mean teens aren't using Facebook. It just means they
don't call Facebook their "most important" social network. That's a huge
difference: more teens are likely still using Facebook than Twitter, they just
don't consider it their most important social network.

This means Facebook has essentially reached utility status, which is reflected
anecdotally in my life. It's replaced email for a generation. But that's
arguably a fine place for them to be: if you own the entire backbone of
people's communications, there's a lot of money to be made in that. You'll
find a lot more teens who use Facebook but not Twitter than the inverse.

To put it another way, if asked I'd say Hacker News is "more important" to me
than Google Search. But Google definitely makes a lot more (potential) money
off me.

~~~
vasilipupkin
Hacker News is more important to you than Google Search ? sorry, that cracked
me up

~~~
morgante
Yup. :) For one thing, HN doesn't really have any viable alternatives at this
point. Google has plenty.

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tankbot
Um, since Instagram _is_ Facebook, by my estimate Facebook owns 46% of that
graph and is still most popular by a long-shot.

~~~
67726e
If you want to get pedantic, then the Facebook corporation is the most popular
social network corporation. We're talking about platforms here, not the parent
company.

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skwirl
The chart shows a huge jump in "Other," from 4% to 17% in just six months. I
wish they explained that. Vine?

~~~
ma2rten
In Asia (at least here in Thailand) I think LINE is quickly overtaking all
other social networks. It's sort of like What's App, but with much more
functionality.

~~~
Achshar
They have huge advertising campaign going on here in India with top bollywood
stars. I would still be surprised if they were doing good here. Why is there
_still_ a market for internet messengers? There are so many of them already.
it's like image sharing apps.

~~~
ma2rten
Ok, here is what I have observed so far (I don't use Line myself):

1\. Line works with your telephone number (if you have someones number you can
send them a message)

2\. Line allows you to send messages (free sms) and voice calls.

3\. Line allows you to have friend groups.

But there also reasons specific to Asia (at least Thailand):

1\. Line has a "cute look" and has smilie packs which you can buy (big images
actually). Thais seem to love that. Westerners would probably find them
childish.

2\. Line has status messages. These seems to be used in quite an interesting
way: to tell people something which you don't really want to tell them
directly, e.g. "Stop being jealous. Change your life to make other people
jealous.".

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lchitnis
Facebook is becoming more unpopular among other groups, as well. I am tempted
to say that everyone is getting sick of Facebook. Many of my friends now have
a love/hate relationship with it, trying to make a higher quality experience
by shaving down their friends' lists or just deleting their profile
altogether. I feel Facebook burnout as well...it's this thing I have to do
compulsively, which offers no joy, yet it's where everyone is, so I don't
really have a choice but to go there to keep in touch with everyone...and I
think that is the general sentiment these days at least among my mid-30s peer
group...many of whom don't bother checking their page anymore...

~~~
dcsommer
I'm curious if that is a function of how Facebook works or if that is what
naturally happens when you see everyone you know online doing fun things
(which would apply to every social network of that size).

~~~
lchitnis
Not sure, but I believe in the law of diminishing returns...after a while, a
human being gets used to something, and eventually sick of it after repeated
exposure.

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kunai
Social networks: the best way to waste time ever invented in the history of
history.

I never saw a need for any of them. Twitter had potential, but it got overrun
by people who somehow felt the need to rant about their opinions on political
decisions without being completely educated about any of them, by celebrities,
by people who can't spell, and by people who think that @messages are the
perfect way to privately communicate on the internet.

I really don't see Snapchat lasting for longer than a year. The others will
stay around for a while, but then eventually fade into irrelevance... like all
trends that don't provide palpable services, e.g. Google et des autres
fournisseurs de recherches.

~~~
devx
Also a very nice way for everyone to create their own dossiers, that most law
enforcement agencies can access even without a warrant these days, and can
even collect en masse.

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amplification
I find Silicon Valley's obsession with teens fascinating. Why is teen usage a
benchmark for the health of a startup?

Do teenagers spend money online? Is there any research on that?

~~~
ra88it
Teens represent the near future. They'll grow up and maybe carry their
allegiances forward.

~~~
ollysb
If services only remain at their peak for 4/5 years this doesn't represent
much of an advantage.

~~~
AJ007
The question is, does Facebook behave like Google, or even more generally,
like e-mail, and last a long time, or is it just another 4-5 year fad? If its
a longer term tool then the behavioral trends of young demographics are a big
deal.

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ffrryuu
That's because all the parents are on it.

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kbenson
The other night at dinner my eleven year old daughter asked me "What's
instagam?" and then proceeded to ask if she could have an account because
_all_ her friends were on it. I told her no because I don't like the idea of
her on a social network yet (and it's probably against their TOS anyway).

Truthfully, I don't know why there isn't a K-12 social network that has
schools and teachers, and kids were grouped by class, and teachers could
moderate all posts and (have the option to) see all messages (with a notice to
the parties that it had been looked at). That would alleviate any concerns I
had about inappropriate content, and online bullying (there's a record, kids
would be accountable for what was said), and provide immediate benefit to
students and parents (who could maybe have accounts that were read-only for
public discussions and their own children's correspondence).

Edit: As numerous replies have pointed out, there apparently is one,
edmodo.com. I guess it's just not used around (or at least not in my
district).

~~~
alex_doom
Because kids would never use it. They like their hidden caves. It's similar to
passing secret notes to each other in class. Except now they can do it from
afar.

~~~
kbenson
Oh, they would use it if it was a valuable resource for asking for help with
homework, communicating with other students and teachers, the only way to
contact some of their friends (which aren't allowed on other networks), or in
any way mandated. Parents would like it for the control it offered, and kids
aren't in total control of their choices.

Kids might _also_ want and indeed use other social networks, but I would feel
much more comfortable as a parent telling them no if I knew they had this to
fall back on.

~~~
PeterisP
Chicken and egg problem - they wouldn't be really active ther because they
don't want to, and because noone is really active, then it wouldn't be a
valuable resource for homework and communicating with other students.

I've seen a large implementation (around 1/3 schools in my area) that
technically could do all that, but you can only 'mandate' a horse to the water
but can't make it drink - in the end, they were used for parents to look up
grades communicate with teachers, while kids used only the absolutely
practical things rarely, and since they couldn't be mandatory (as not 100% can
afford a computer at home) it sort of died out. It would be fun to ask the
developers what percent of kids sent even a single message to another kid...
All at the same time, the ten year olds are extremely active online elsewhere.

~~~
kbenson
I wonder how much of that was based on (lack of) teacher buy-in and parents
knowing about it? I can tell you that if the teacher was available on such a
system in my are, there would be at least a few users just from my kids.

Beyond any moral or parent protectiveness issues, Facebook, Google Plus and
Instagram all require you be at least 13 years old to use their services. My
(very limited) understanding is that TOS are in some cases legally enforceable
now, so letting kids use those sites is problematic from my perspective.

~~~
PeterisP
What teacher buy-in would you like and reasonably expect?

Does such a system have a single practical benefit to a teacher doing their
job, that they couldn't / wouldn't do better offline by simply talking to the
kid at school after the lesson? It's a benefit for the parents, and they got
the daily status information (attendance, grades, discipline&other issues)
flowing quickly and easily from teachers to parents, that part worked.

What would you expect from a teacher buy-in there - individual assistance with
the homework online in the evenings ? My imagination is failing me here :) The
original post sort of implied that it would be the place where you'd want kids
to move their communication between themselves, no? (and they wouldn't avoid
any important communication in any place moderated or monitored by their
parents, naturally)

In any case, teachers pretty much everywhere tend to be overworked and
underpaid; as much as they want to chat with a few kids individually they are
already doing it in school. However, if you're (for a random example) teaching
math to only 6 groups of 30 pupils each, then if you'd spend after hours 5
minutes weekly on online communication for each student, it would come out 15
hours per week, on top of handling homework - it's simply not going to happen.

~~~
kbenson
> Does such a system have a single practical benefit to a teacher doing their
> job, that they couldn't / wouldn't do better offline by simply talking to
> the kid at school after the lesson?

I think so, as long as the scope is clearly defined. You are right in your
later implications that it could easily be subverted to a tool making more
work for teachers, and I was erroneously drifting down that path.

> What would you expect from a teacher buy-in there

Listing homework for the night

Listing upcoming longer term assignment dates

Noting any information that students/parents should be aware of

Sending important announcements to students/parents

Addendums to lesson plans that they forgot to cover or came to light later
("Joey brought to light that I might have been unclear or misspoke when I was
referring to the Spanish inquisition. What I should have said is that 'No one
expects the Spanish Inquisition!' That should help you complete your History
of Monty Python unit tonight.")

An official way to send a message to a teacher outside of class

I receive emails from one daughter's teacher on a regular basis, at least
twice a week, because she hates the school website software (I hate it as
well, it's horrendously bad). The other daughter's teacher has emailed maybe
once, to confirm the address. I assume all her updates are going to the
website, I haven't seen them. The teachers are all very responsive to email
though.

> The original post sort of implied that it would be the place where you'd
> want kids to move their communication between themselves, no?

No, just that it is a place they _could_ communicate between themselves, with
some other benefits and a heaping level of oversight. My daughters would use
it because 1) They aren't on any social networks, 2) they don't have any email
addresses I know of (I'm not discounting that they don't have any, but I doubt
it at this point, ask again in a year), and 3) we don't have a land line, just
cell phones, so she doesn't have a lot of easy ways to contact some of her
friends.

> In any case, teachers pretty much everywhere tend to be overworked and
> underpaid

Agreed. I'm all about using technology to make life better and _reduce_ work,
not create more work. When I'm referring to teacher moderation, my original
thought was more along the lines of the teacher being able to research and see
message history of a student when actively searching. If someone complains
they are being bullied or targeted, that shouldn't be any more acceptable in
the online system as in the classroom. I think kids need a safe place to learn
this.

As a _replacement_ for a class website, I think it would have quite a bit of
potential.

~~~
PeterisP
For this functionality such systems work okay - but they won't work for kids-
to-kids communication due to the same chicken and egg problem.

Your daughters wouldn't (couldn't) use it the way you imagine, because, face
it, the 'critical mass' of other kids who'd they want to talk to simply
wouldn't be on such a system online/active/quickly responding as they are on
facebook/snapchat/whatever.

And I'm not sure if _any_ classmate communication forum with a heaping level
of oversight is realistic - the nature of teens and pre-teens is such that any
must-be-part-of social activities would happen elsewhere; and if all the good
stuff is elsewhere, then they don't need/want to use the monitored forum.

------
frostmatthew
Have teenagers ever been an important group for Facebook? It started for
college students only, thus for the first few years the only _other_ age group
it could expand to were people who started using it in college and continued
to do so as they got older. My assumption would be from there it spread
to/through friends and coworkers (most of which would be past their teens).

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presty
I find it a little bit hard to believe that tumblr is only 4% and that Google+
is 3%.

I highly doubt the veracity of these numbers.

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ma2rten
It seems as if Zuckerberg (fore)saw this trend. This explains why he paid such
a hefty price for Instagram.

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baddox
> Twitter has overtaken Facebook as the social media network that is _most
> important_ to teens, according to Piper Jaffray's semi-annual teen market
> research report. Twitter is the new king of teens, with 26 percent naming it
> as their "most important" social site.

(emphasis mine)

~~~
frostmatthew
> _Only_ 23 percent said Facebook was most important

(emphasis mine)

A difference of ~3 points in a group as fickle as teenagers isn't very
significant.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Facebook had monopoly once and now it has less than quarter.

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dschiptsov
Yeah, yeah, IPO is coming, we know.

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dboyd
Tried to signup for facebook several times today and it kept asking for my
phone number. I wonder if teens are less willing to go through that hassle.

Compare that to twitter's new onboarding experience, which is (arguably) very
well done.

~~~
alex_doom
No they don't want to hang out on the same place their mom is. They have
accounts but they sit idle.

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playhard
It is true
[https://twitter.com/search?q=uses%20AND%20facebook&src=typd&...](https://twitter.com/search?q=uses%20AND%20facebook&src=typd&f=realtime)

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mohamedzahid
I just wanted to point out: Instagram + Facebook = 46%

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clubhi
One thing is for sure. Teenagers are no longer the most popular demographic
for Facebook.

