
Men Beware: The Abercrombie and Fitch Effect - cirrus-clouds
https://www.newneuromarketing.com/men-beware-the-abercrombie-fitch-effect
======
TheSpiceIsLife
From the article:

 _the scientists looked at the ratio between ring and index finger, which is
correlated with one’s level of testosterone._

I wasn't aware of this. Wikipedia entry here:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio)

 _That a greater proportion of men have shorter index fingers than ring
fingers than do women was noted in the scientific literature several times
through the late 1800s,[16][17] with the statistically significant sex
difference in a sample of 201 men and 109 women established by 1930,[18] after
which time the sex difference appears to have been largely forgotten or
ignored._

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chillacy
The article doesn’t go as far as to make any explanations so I’ll drop what I
think is happening: the tall masculine figure is making the targeted men
insecure (the shorter, lower test level men) about their masculinity and they
make up for it by buying luxury goods, which is an alternative expression of
masculinity (think expensive whiskies and fine taste).

It of course doesn’t affect women because they aren’t threatened, and it
doesn’t affect men who are already physically masculine because they’re secure
there.

And now I wonder if you can run variations:

1\. Have some well dressed guy in a suit lead underdressed buff guys buy
clothing because they’re insecure about their appearance

2\. Have skinny women lead more overweight women to buy health products that
promote weight loss

~~~
tvh
Agreed, this seems to be stemming from a fairly common compensation mechanism.
I would be very interested in the results of the questions you bring up. I'd
venture the result would be: 1\. Yes 2\. No

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peterclary
In the case of female shoppers, the measured purchase patterns were exactly
same, regardless of the amount of muscle at the entrance. On the other hand,
male shoppers were clearly influenced.“

“This alone provides a valuable marketing insight. Women clearly don’t care
that much about the employees’ physical appearance – from a shopping point of
view, that is. Men are much more easily swayed.”

To back that assertion, I would want to see the experiment repeated with
female sales employees. In that situation, would women shoppers respond in a
similar way to attractive and confident female employees as the men did to
dominant male employees?

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albertgoeswoof
Anyone got a link to the “research” cited in here? From the article it doesn’t
seem like the most rigourous methodology, and I don’t see any p or n values
listed.

Honestly if this was actually true every male shop assistant working on
commission would already be ripped because they would be selling double that
of the scrawny ones, who would have been fired months ago.

~~~
cirrus-clouds
Here is a PDF link to the research paper (hosted on the website of one of the
authors of the study):

[https://nancyjsirianni.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/jmr_otter...](https://nancyjsirianni.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/jmr_otterbring-
ringler-sirianni-and-gustafsson.pdf)

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stupidcar
For the next Apple keynote, Tim Cook is gonna be shirtless and ripped.

~~~
pcurve
I wouldn't mind see Craig f. do all the talking.

~~~
coherentpony
> I wouldn't mind see Craig f. do all the talking.

Something irks me about this comment.

If someone had made the same remark but instead it was about a woman, I wonder
what the response would be.

~~~
toren
It would be a shame if people cared either way.

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mayneack
[https://web.archive.org/web/20180729140144/https://www.newne...](https://web.archive.org/web/20180729140144/https://www.newneuromarketing.com/men-
beware-the-abercrombie-fitch-effect)

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bigtones
Abercrombie and Fitch share price is at a 17 year low and they have put
themselves up for sale. I don't think their strategy is working out too well
for them in a market where foreign competitors like Zara and H&M entered with
much more effective marketing messages.

Abercrombie and Fitch "failed to keep up with changing preferences among
customers, and has suffered as a result, plagued with a number of periods of
declining sales."

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/05/10/wh...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/05/10/why-
abercrombie-fitch-is-up-for-sale)

~~~
tylerwhipple
I do not know where you are getting this information but ANF stock is not at a
17 year low. The stock price has more than doubled from last year's (and all
the time) low.

[https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/anf?ltr=1](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/anf?ltr=1)

~~~
fosco
Article grandparent quoted was from last year. You are accurate.

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tzs
From the couple of pictures, the "dominant" men were a little taller than
average, and fairly well muscled.

I wonder what would happen if you went even more extreme, such as staffing the
store with men who look like, both physically and in dress, as if they just
stepped out of a "Tom of Finland" drawing?

My guess is that if the gap between the salesman and the customer is much more
than what the customer believes they realistically can achieve, the salesman
will not be as effective as one who is more similar to the customer.

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Buldak
This reminds me of the observation you often see that when men get into
bodybuilding or grow their beards it's often not women, but other men, who
seem most impressed.

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ljm
Research aside, isn't this intuitive? My sexuality doesn't come into the
feeling I have when I go clothes shopping. If they've got guys wearing the
merchandise and they look attractive and confident, I'm going to feel
empowered by that - they look hot in those clothes and so I'm interested.

I might even feel confident in myself because I've realised I can feel that
for myself. The physique doesn't even matter, it's just the energy of it.

If they hire a bunch of models who give off nothing more than anxiety and
discomfort in themselves then my first thought isn't that they're making great
clothes look good.

I can't imagine that we as men have this different compared to women who shop
for clothes. Attraction, sexuality, and aspiration is in your face at all
times there. The main difference I see is that a man will rarely call another
man attractive, as if the instant assumption is that admiring them makes you
gay. Plenty of men out there who look and feel awesome without needing to
challenge your heterosexuality.

~~~
namanyayg
The research presented in the article seems to be going against this
intuition: the effect is only apparent when it's a physically _dominating_
male; not necessarily physically _attractive_.

> Note that physical dominance isn’t the same as physical attractiveness.
> While many high-status product categories have certainly embraced the latter
> for ages, it’s the tallness and muscularity what truly matters for the
> Abercrombie & Fitch effect to take place.

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Izkata
Although the exact numbers and who was affected were probably unknown, I can't
help but think the general effect was already known because of the shape of
mannequins.

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fjsolwmv
I don't think A&F is the right name for this effect, because A&F intentionally
sells products that fit big muscular guys, and tries to avoid selling products
for and to small guys. (see the related comment about FitchTheHomeless).

They don't want scrawny customers in public as brand mis-ambasssadors That's
different from buying an expensive watch or couch or car because you feel
inferior sized.

~~~
learc83
Is that true? My younger brother who was very scrawny in High School had a
wardrobe that consisted almost exclusively of A&F, and I don't remember any of
the clothes looking ill-fitting.

Looking through their website, the majority of their clothes seem to come in
Extra Small and only go up to XL. Maybe their sizing is really off? The size
guide didn't seem to be off from what plenty of other retailers are using
though.

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dweekly
Bezos' fitness routine may have been responsible for some of the AMZN rally.
;)

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amaccuish
Can confirm this works. Then again, I'm gay, so I'd be interested in the
differences between straight and gay men.

~~~
spiritcat
Gay: If I buy this maybe he'll fsck me. (or straight with saleswoman.)

Straight: If I don't buy this he'll fsck my woman.

~~~
dang
Please don't do this here.

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bogomipz
It's worth noting that the company endured years of flagging sales and stock
price while employing this tactic. They somewhat recently made a concerted
effort to move away from this image. And after doing so saw their numbers
improve:

>"While it once called its store front staff “models,” the company later
announced in 2015 that it would no longer hire based on “body type or physical
attractiveness.” [1]

[1] [http://fortune.com/2016/02/25/this-is-the-most-hated-
retaile...](http://fortune.com/2016/02/25/this-is-the-most-hated-retailer-in-
the-u-s/)

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rubzah
I've only visited an A&F store once. The lighting was bizarrely low. It was
like one of those 'horror house' rides at a crappy fair, with only the
occasional dim spot on an exhibition of clothes. This extended to the dressing
rooms.

Is this general for A&F? If so no wonder they've been doing poorly.

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Lxr
Wow, apparently the length of your ring finger is correlated with your
testosterone levels.

~~~
culot
*amniotic testosterone levels, apparently, and the ratio is supposedly unaffected by post-birth levels.

"The 2D:4D digit ratio is the ratio of the length of the second (index) finger
and the fourth (ring) finger. This ratio is, on average, different in men and
women. (Men tend to have longer ring fingers relative to their index fingers,
while women’s index fingers are about the same length as, or slightly longer
than, their ring fingers.) The idea is that prenatal testosterone levels
influence digit ratio."

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Lunatic666
First thing which came to my mind was #FitchTheHomeless -
[http://adage.com/article/the-media-guy/fitchthehomeless-
watc...](http://adage.com/article/the-media-guy/fitchthehomeless-watch-viral-
anti-abercrombie-video/241547)

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excalibur
There seem to be a lot of uncontrolled variables here. This feels less like
professional science, and more like a science fair project.

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Jaruzel
I must be a woman then, because I find the bulky man to be off-putting. I'd
still buy from him, but I wouldn't enjoy the interaction. I'd much prefer to
buy from the non-dominant man.

Manipulating people like this is wrong, but then so are most marketing
techniques.

~~~
spiritcat
Of course you'd buy from him. Don't want him to think you're a low value
proposition beta who can't afford to provide for his woman.

------
LarryL
I find that kind of research disgusting, because their ONLY purpose is to
manipulate customers.

I also question the ethics of such studies: how can you justify this,
ethically?

Treating your customers like that is also simply unacceptable. Same problem
with those psychologists working on games rewards in order to make you spend
more.

DISGUSTING.

~~~
eldavido
Sorry you were triggered...

On a more serious note, I don't think personal sensibility is a good reason
not to perform an experiment, or publish something. The main test should be,
"is it true"? And, "What does the evidence show"?

A good reason might be if the subjects' rights were somehow violated, which
IRB reviews in academic science are designed to prevent
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_review_board](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_review_board)).
Human experimentation is, in general, a highly regulated endeavor.

I strongly object to not doing science, or some kind of investigation, because
one person finds it "disgusting". I think this attitude is getting more
common, despite its harms.

~~~
panarky
I strongly object to doing whatever the fuck you want with no regard for
social or political consequences.

There's an attitude that anything goes short of violating an individual's
rights, even if your actions do collective damage.

Anyone who disagrees or resists this nihilistic attitude is then denigrated as
weak-minded, "triggered" or insufficiently masculine.

I think this attitude is getting more common, despite its harms.

~~~
UncleEntity
Tricking people shopping for status items into buying higher priced status
items does "collective damage"?

I'm failing to see who's the victim here.

\--edit--

This actually reminds me of one of my sister's stories; one of her college
roommates was running late so just put her hair up in a ponytail and made
noticeably better tips that night than she usually did at her bartending job
so what do you suppose she did as a result of this observation?

~~~
joejerryronnie
> what do you suppose she did as a result of this observation?

Ran double-blind controlled experiments published to a peer reviewed journal?

