
Don't hold users hostage, facilitate their exit - chdaniel
https://chagency.co.uk/blog/increasing-user-retention/dont-take-your-customers-hostages-facilitate-their-exit/
======
rlayton2
I cancelled Basecamp today, because it didn't fit with my workflow, and the
whole thing was _easy_. So much so, I would probably be using it again in the
future (I work mostly by myself, need a "master todo list" and with many
different teams, Basecamp doesn't fit this working style, but nothing I've
tried does). I'll recommend Basecamp to larger teams, and part of that is the
exit.

Here's what Basecamp did:

* on their monthly receipt email, they have a link _directly to the cancel option_.

* They remind you to get your data on the way out, and give a link, right there, to go get it

* They give you your data

* They cancel straight away, and ask if it's ok to survey you (optional).

After reading the book It doesn't have to be crazy at work
([https://basecamp.com/books/calm](https://basecamp.com/books/calm) ) I
understood the mentality perfectly. I wish them all the best for their
product.

~~~
gbersac
You might be an exception. If you leave a service, you probably will never
return. It might still be more profitable to just make sure the customer stay
as long as possible by creating barriers to leaving.

~~~
ok_coo
I understand business people having this kind of mentality, but don't they
realize that it can create resentment?

I've gone out of my way to cancel (and permanently ignore) certain services in
the past when I discovered how difficult it was to cancel (and port my data).

~~~
gpderetta
most importantly, it creates regulations.

------
Zanni
Barriers to exit are barriers to entry.

If you make it hard for me to leave, I'm less likely to come back. If you make
it hard for me to leave, I won't recommend you to my friends. If I hear that
you make it hard for me to leave, I'm less likely to sign up in teh first
place.

~~~
noneeeed
Pretty much this. In the past I've signed up to NowTV (UK streaming service)
solely to get Game of Thrones for about two months of the year. They make it
really easy to stop and start your packages. If it was hard to leave I'm not
sure I'd sign up and would be more inclined to consider "alternative
avenues"...

The ironic example of an organisation that made it hard for me to leave was
Which?, which is similar to Consumer Reports I think. It's a self declared
"champion of consumer rights" etc. I signed up when we were buying a load of
appliances for a new kitchen. I had to google how to cancel my subscription
and involved sending an email to the right address and eventually someone
would get round to it. Ridiculously hypocritical.

~~~
tolien
Possible it’s changed since you cancelled but when I signed up last month the
email address (which@which.co.uk) was printed in the jacket around the first
magazine they sent. When I emailed to cancel I got a response literally within
minutes (at 0044 — guessing its outsourced) confirming that they’d got my
request and would process it.

Surprisingly painless, given their website says you need to phone [1].

1: [https://www.which.co.uk/help/our-policies-and-
standards/1973...](https://www.which.co.uk/help/our-policies-and-
standards/1973/cancelling-your-membership)

~~~
noneeeed
In my case it was the online subscription, not the paper one. Which I think
makes the lack of easy cancellation even worse :/

~~~
tolien
It looks like you don't get a choice now - I signed up online (£1 trial) and
got access to the website.

Agreed though, the sensible rule would be that method of cancellation matches
method of subscription.

------
jaabe
Exit strategies have become an important architecturual requirements when we
buy systems. I know this article is pointed at consumers, and the comparison
to buying clothes is excellent, but it’s actuallly a big thing in modern
enterprise as well.

We buy systems we know are going to die. Sometimes they even die because the
supplier build something completely new, but mostly it happens when we go to
the competition. In either case we still need to be able to migrate our data
and business logic seamlessly, and the companies who can’t show us an exit-
strategy up front, putting it to contract 4-5 years before we need it, are
much less likely to get our business.

~~~
chdaniel
> I know this article is pointed at consumers, and the comparison to buying
> clothes is excellent, but it’s actuallly a big thing in modern enterprise as
> well.

That's what I say in some other written pieces of mine — even if it's B2B,
it's still people behind it when deals are closed and hands are shaken.

> In either case we still need to be able to migrate our data and business
> logic seamlessly

In a sense it's about honour. Think samurais.

If the company you're doing business with helps you even when you move away
from them, they're indirectly saying they respect an unspoken code of honour,
which leads to

> putting it to contract 4-5 years before we need it, are much less likely to
> get our business.

getting your trust. thx for the comment!

------
Vanderson
Late 90s/early 00s, there were companies that I bumped into that would lock a
site's data and resources up so a customer couldn't leave.

Because of this, one of the first features I build in my CMS was a full export
function. All your templates, all your data and all your files.

Why? Because when you put money, time and effort into building a site you want
your clients to feel good about this decision in every way. I don't want
people to even _feel_ trapped, even if they aren't.

Trapping people breeds animosity, I don't see how it could ever help. But I am
not sure that providing an RMA with every purchase is even needed if you can
get them one easily enough if they ask. Maybe I missed something in this
article?

~~~
chdaniel
But this is it about the RMA — why have them ask instead of facilitating it?
They'd ask, it takes some minutes online, then they send it digitally — takes
a working day or two.

Here's what I think it's been going through their mind. _Probably_ (idk, I'm
not the owner of Asos or another big retailer) they wanted to avoid the
situation in which someone says "fuck it, it wasn't that expensive anyways,
I'd rather keep/donate the clothes rather than return them" \- and then never
shop again

As opposed to "okay, returning takes 30 minutes less because I have the return
labels" which, in turn, can mean more business. Because the relationship is
trying to be built

~~~
Vanderson
I am certainly not going to defend a situation I am unfamiliar with.

My thought was simply that through the years of online shopping I have never
seen a return label in a package that I can recall, but getting an RMA has
rarely been an issue. (we are careful where we shop though)

If these guys are making RMA's hard that is totally different.

Edit: I may be confusing RMA (a request) with an actual "shipping label".

------
codazoda
I recently signed up for a service. It's a service I wanted to try and might
return to, but I found some alternatives I also wanted to try, some of them
free.

The cancellation was so difficult; pick up the phone and wait on hold a while,
that I will never go back. Even though I might want the service again, I lost
faith in the company.

~~~
chdaniel
Exactly my point. Had that as well and it's such a pain to spend that amount
of time, it leads to distrust. Thx for the example

------
ianai
The current monthly recurring charges thing and making it difficult to cancel
is similar to the hard, six hour-plus your purchase of a car at a dealership.
If I had to go through that with, say, a grocery store or even a restaurant
I’d never go back to either. The only thing that makes the hard sale remotely
feasible for a car retailer is the infrequency of purchasing a car.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I wonder about this.

I've never bought a car from a used car yard or new car dealership, so I can't
talk from experience.

In Australia, residential real estate sales contract have a mandatory 28 day
minimum _cooling off period_. I don't know anything about commercial real
estate, so can't comment on that.

In a way it makes some sense that the other large purchase(s) in life should
have a somewhat protracted sales experience. If you could walk in to a car
sales yard and just buy a car chip and pin style, I suspect things could go
downhill quite rapidly.

I haven't really thought this through very much, so I'm wide open to head
different perspectives.

~~~
mikeash
I ordered my last two cars online. The more recent one was delivered to my
house. I spent a few minutes signing paperwork and we were done. There’s no
reason the experience has to be anything more than that.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
That's fair.

I'm just wondering whether there's scope for a _cooling off period_ for
vehicle purchases?

I have at least one friend who might have benefited from such a thing.

~~~
mikeash
That seems like a separate issue. Even with hours at a dealer, at the end you
make a decision, sign, and that’s it. (Unless the dealer is kind enough to
have a refund policy, anyway.)

Ordering online, I had a period where I could cancel the order with no
penalty.

------
ams6110
See also: Any cable/internet service. Just _try_ to go onto the Comcast
website and close your account, or even move to a lower tier of service.

They will happily let you add new services to your account, but to remove or
cancel anything? You need to call or visit a service center.

~~~
chdaniel
That's exactly what I'm advocating against! I do see this happening every time
in dying industries: when they know it as well (they do, trust me), it so
happens that they're clinging onto every single penny they can do. And I
understand why.

~~~
mcny
For what is worth, I recently told Verizon FiOS I'm moving out of the country
and they let me cancel without any hesitation. They'll sneakily try to send me
one more months bill from what I've read online but other than that it is
pretty straight forward.

------
xg15
Here we can read: A thread full of thought-out responses and arguments why an
option to close your account is necessary - on a platform that doesn't allow
you to close your account.

~~~
chdaniel
hahaha, just created mine yesterday and I didn't know that. I don't think it's
as bad when all they require of you is account name and password (so no data
to be sold, presumably) and it's free — I do get the "irony" though

------
CapitalistCartr
My rule of bosses, girlfriends, companies, etc. is: You learn what they are
really like when you leave. That's when they show what's buried deep.

Full disclosure: I'm married two years now.

~~~
abraae
I don't know how to interpret your second sentence. Are you planning to get
divorced to make sure she/he's right for you?

------
tb303
This is all fine and good when someone's writing words about it on the
internet, but anyone in this discussion who has built / is building a product
knows that you're constantly triaging. And when you are triaging, the last
thing you are going to prioritize is spending eng resources on a great
experience for cancellation. I see some comments here with things like "if
it's hard for me to cancel, I'll likely never X again." Well, the stats show
you're not going to anyway even if we made it seamless.

~~~
masklinn
While that is true, it seems many companies spend eng resources specifically
to create a shitty cancellation experience. It's not just that they could make
it better with some effort, it's that they had to work hard to make it that
bad.

------
sascha_sl
Why would you seriously use the term "social justice warrior" in an article...

------
kylnew
If nothing else, please ask your customers why they are leaving/cancelling. It
makes me feel like a company doesn’t care and won’t get better if they don’t
ask leaving customers why.

~~~
reificator
I tend to think exactly the opposite. When I try to cancel I want to see a
page that lets me cancel, not a survey to ask why I'm cancelling. It feels
like a last ditch effort from a clingy, depressive/low-self-esteem lover.

~~~
corobo
In your opinion would be be alright to meet in the middle? A sort of no-frills
cancel process with a survey/question after the cancel's gone through?

That way your cancel's done and dusted but with the option to feedback if you
fancy it

~~~
reificator
It still comes across as clingy, but it'd be a huge improvement over putting
it before.

I've seen a few sites that don't make it clear that you have successfully
cancelled and act as though the survey is still required, so don't do that.
Make it clear the user has finished cancelling and this is an extra step they
can take if they'd like.

------
imustbeevil
I recently tried going through my saved passwords in chrome and closing down
accounts I don't really want anymore.

The overwhelming majority of sites that have some kind of information about me
do not have options to close accounts directly through the website. I was
under the impression it was illegal to prevent someone from closing an account
/ hold data indefinitely, so I have to assume there's some way to call in or
email to have this done, but any additional outreach just feels like giving
them more information about myself and I'd rather just ghost.

~~~
chdaniel
it might be illegal but since there's no such thing as an internet police, who
can be there to check every single website. In the grand scheme of things, I
do believe that nature does its own thing and eventually these businesses will
be cleared away

------
OJFord
FYI I can't load your site without third-party JS... unless I also 'ad' block
`mauer-narrator-preloader` (which seems not to be an ad, but just a spinning
circle)...

~~~
chdaniel
oh damn, thank you. what browser are you using? I'll see what can be done

~~~
OJFord
Firefox

~~~
chdaniel
good, thank you for that. I'll take care of it

------
empath75
if you make it a pain for me to cancel, I will never sign up for your service
again.

~~~
Someone1234
Retentions is part of a short-term-thinking culture that has become pervasive
among US businesses.

You use dark patterns/make it hard to cancel that might help you this quarter
but ultimately you're dragging your business's reputation through the mud.
Once those customers leave they aren't likely to return ever.

What's interesting is that businesses KNOW THIS, it isn't some secret voodoo,
they know aggressive retention strategies result in long term dissatisfaction.
But the way upper tier compensation is structured many executives can ride the
short bump to bonuses, then get the gold parachute out the door as things
implode.

In essence bosses are current incentivized to burn long term viability for
short term bumps, and this is just one of many side-effects.

~~~
chdaniel
When companies spend time to make it hard for you to unsubscribe it's hell.
Like those people you may have seen in your life who are living through hell —
but it's a certain level of hell that can't be achieved without their effort.

------
mcv
In the aftermath of the killing of Google+, I've been thinking that if I ever
started a social network, one of my main advertising features would be that
you would always be able to get all of your information out, and set up shop
elsewhere. Ideally, the code base would be open source, so they can just
deploy their own server, upload their data, and continue like nothing changed.

Of course the real lock-in with social networks is the connections with other
people there, which is why everybody is staying on Facebook despite its
universally agreed awfulness. To fight that, you need something like
Hubzilla's nomadic identity.

~~~
chdaniel
Thanks for the comm. Surely yeah, packaging the data for the end consumer is
aligned with the idea of the post

------
owens99
Seeing the OP relentlessly defend his use of the word SJW in this thread is
the most entertaining thing I've read today. I have to applaud all the
commenters who tried to do the right thing and explain to him his mistake. Yet
the guy can't take a hint!

------
fastbmk
FastBMK also allows you to export/import all of you data :)

[http://fastbmk.com/](http://fastbmk.com/)

------
bassman9000
Anyone on why Spotify doesn't allow you to export playlists?

------
snorremd
Now that we have the GDPR law I would almost think a clear exit experience
would be necessary to truly comply with the law as well. An EU user should be
able to request her user to be deleted together with her data. At this point
you might as well make it a nice button on your service's profile
administration page.

------
zach43
This is definitely a nice sentiment, and i have encountered push-back at work
for wanting to provide users with good exit experiences. The analogy to
shipping labels is apt, and i also like to think that keeping users hostage /
locked-in to your ecosystem will lead to worse consequences in the future for
your product.

I wanted to provide one bit of close critique on a small part of the post:

> And look, I’m no social justice warrior (or so I hope) to go and bash people
> on the internet for whatever they’ve done wrongfully.

yikes. General suggestion for technical bloggers: please don't make vague
references to internet culture wars (even in passing) in your posts unless
they are central to your thesis.

This kind of stuff is at best distracting, and at worst can cause major
misunderstandings. For me it engenders a certain kind of distrust: is the
author trying to purposefully rile me or anyone else in their audience? It
feels quite unprofessional as a whole.

~~~
chdaniel
Hi Zach,

Thx for the comment. Maybe we have to go through an unpleasant experience once
to understand what you’ve resonated with from the article and what I wrote. Or
maybe multiple times. Who knows

Regarding the quote, what I meant was that I’m no social justice warrior to go
on and leave 1-star reviews to that company because they didn’t cancel my
subscription.

It’s just that I’d rather build more, instead of spending time to destroy what
someone else did. Or, I’ve heard stories of people buying thousands of
negative reviews, thus destroying reputations

I write as I’d be speaking and I use a lot of relaxed language. Sometimes it
sets people off because it’s not professional and I understand, but the core
of value is there (or at least I’m trying to make it so).

Thx for your comment! Any parts that stood out for you besides this one?

~~~
chillfox
I suggest being careful about using the "social justice warrior" label, it
does not seem to have settled on a solid definition yet.

So far I have almost exclusively seen it used to attack women in computer
games. This is the first time I have seen it used to refer to people 1-staring
reviews.

~~~
chdaniel
But not having a solid definition shouldn't stop us from thinking for
ourselves, right?

~~~
arkades
Words and phrases have meanings. You’re not being a freethinker by taking a
popular idiom and redefining it. The fact that you’re receiveing the same
response from all commenters should be a hint.

~~~
dorchadas
Seriously. It really makes me suspicious of this person's use of the term,
especially given the general stance of people who label others as "social
justice warriors".

