
Mapping the Growth of Disability Claims in America - smaddali
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-12-16/mapping-the-growth-of-disability-claims-in-america
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tyingq
Basically a grassroots UBI movement.

Will be interesting to follow these numbers when self-driving semi-trucks
start taking over.

Edit: I meant similar to UBI in the sense that the group that views themselves
as unemployable has found a way to get the government to supply a "basic
income". I'm aware it doesn't fit the idea in other ways. It is clearly,
though, being used by people that are not suffering a real disability.

~~~
soared
I dismissed your comment before reading the article, but you are kind of
right. The biggest thing holding back people on disability from finding work
(according to the article) is fear of losing health insurance and that
cushion. It sounds like allowing people to keep disability benefits, at least
for a couple months, after finding employment would help significantly.

This sounds like you could get two paychecks for a while and potentially
better for abusing, but remember the bottom line:

>Economists believe declining job prospects and an aging workforce, not fraud,
explain the growth of disability claims.

~~~
tyingq
>>Economists believe declining job prospects and an aging workforce, not
fraud, explain the growth of disability claims.

That's an odd quote though. How would "declining job prospects" explain growth
in disability without also implying fraud?

Edit: Both explanations below make sense, but 15 to 20+ percent of "all
residents age 18 to 64" within a single county on disability benefits? I don't
see how that could not imply fraud, perhaps with the exception of a mining
heavy county.

~~~
droopyEyelids
Did you read the article? It specifically covers this question.

People who are in some sort of pain can still do work if they can find a job
that doesn't aggrivate their pain. One example from the article was a woman
who had a bad back, but could work a desk job like at a call center. Whent the
prospects of that sort of job disappear from their geographical area, the
person becomes eligible for disability.

~~~
tyingq
>Did you read the article.

I did. That's one anectodal example. They also say _" Recipients are often
hesitant to look for full-time employment because they don’t want to risk
losing the financial cushion and access to health care that disability
insurance provides"_.

~~~
Spooky23
The reason is that the process for getting SSDI is a nightmare. It takes
months or years and often requires a judgement by a law judge.

In the meantime, you're screwed. You can't work, have no money and end up in
debt. If you don't have kids, you're a low priority for subsidized housing and
if you lack relatives who can help, you're in a bad place.

~~~
tyingq
This makes sense. The crop of "disability lawyers" is somewhat depressing. I
wonder how much of your benefits they take in exchange for their services. I
assume it's a big number, as they all advertise doing it on contingency..."you
don't pay unless we get you approved".

Edit: Looked it up. It does get paid out of your benefits, and it can be a
substantial amount.

 _" The fee specified in the agreement does not exceed the lesser of 25
percent of the past-due benefits or...$6000"_

[https://www.ssa.gov/representation/fee_agreements.htm](https://www.ssa.gov/representation/fee_agreements.htm)

~~~
Spooky23
IIRC, the government pays them a fixed fee for their services. That's why they
advertise in daytime TV -- case volume is the only way to make money.

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a-zA-Z
This American Life did a good report on this a few years back.
[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/490/...](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/490/trends-with-benefits)

~~~
DanTheManPR
Something stuck me when I first listened to this: there was a little anecdote
about how one of the radio producer's co-workers had an injured back, but
continued to work at his office job with relatively little impact on his
performance. The same kind of injury would be career-ending for someone who's
primary job skills are in a field that involved manual labor (e.g., welder,
plumber, or one of the many oil-extraction jobs). The growth of disability
claims is often characterized as a case of people gaming the system to extract
handouts from the government. But maybe what is happening is we're seeing
aging boomers and gen-xers who work as manual laborers, and who's bodies are
finally breaking down to the point that they can no-longer function at their
jobs. That seems like genuine disability to me, and so isn't it appropriate
for them to use these government services?

~~~
brianwawok
Do you have personal experience with this? For example I know someone on
disability who used to sell cars, that hunts every day. Is hunting easier on
your body then selling cars? I don't think so, but it is likely more fun.

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ryan_j_naughton
In my view, the biggest problem with this program is it isn't based on whether
you can work, it is based on whether you can work at any job available in your
hometown.

If any job that the person could do is available anywhere in the country, then
instead of perpetual disability payments, perhaps the government should help
relocate people to places where there is viable employment. Otherwise, places
where there simply aren't any jobs become perpetual resource drains on society
and also aren't truly helping those people live fulfilled lives.

While you have a right to economic opportunity (and disability payments if you
truly cannot perform any form of work), you don't have a right to opportunity
or payments in a specific, random place in the country. The same people who
want these handouts are the descendants of people who migrated from other
continents in search of a better life. We should expect them to do the same
and be willing to move to the more prosperous cities of our country.

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DoodleBuggy
It seems pretty clear people are using disability benefits as an income safety
net, perhaps while they wait to reach the regular social security eligibility
age.

Also interesting the regions with the highest percentage of claims are in deep
red territory, where the political climate and political agenda is strictly
anti-safety net. I wonder how that will work itself out.

~~~
devoply
The only way the economy works itself out is jobs. If there are no jobs then
the government has to do something about it. Government gets all of its money
from business. So in the end you have an efficient market, where robots create
everything and most of the profit that is generated from sales of items is
confiscated by the government and given to people so they can buy things the
robots produce.

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discardorama
People on SSDI are not counted as "unemployed", IIRC. Which makes the _actual_
unemployment rate much higher.

~~~
stuckagain
Retired people and children are also not counted because they're not part of
the labor force. Why would you count people who can't work as unemployed?

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vivekd
It's interesting to note changes in the type of disability claims. It looks
like there has been a dramatic decrease in disability claims arising from
circulatory and nervous system illnesses, likely due to improving health
conditions in the workplace. But those gains seem to have been eaten up
completely by a dramatic rise in musculoskeletal and mental illnesses. There
doesn't seem to be any rational explanation for these as I'm sure the modern
work place is much less physically strenuous and much less mentally taxing
that what existed in the 60s. Could these be explained by the dramatic rise in
psychologists and chiropractors that have started diagnosing people that would
not have sought or would not have been eligible for disability benefits in
times past?

~~~
maxerickson
Are there jurisdictions where psychologists and chiropractors can make a
diagnosis of disability?

~~~
intopieces
There is no diagnosis of disability. One person diagnosed with high blood
pressure could be on disability while her identical twin in precisely the same
condition living in a different area could be denied it.

~~~
maxerickson
Fair enough, poor choice of words.

It is still the case that to qualify for SSDI in the US you need a diagnosis
from a doctor of a condition that prevents working. I'm wondering if SSA would
accept assessments made by chiropractors or psychologists, neither of which
are medical doctors.

~~~
homero
They send you to their specialists

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malyk
Interesting to compare that map with the cause of death maps in this study in
JAMA.
[http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2592499](http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2592499)

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Shivetya
would love to see a cross reference with obesity rates and other negative
health behaviors. CP is an odd one because it can afflict you greatly or
little, but it still is life altering. Comparing similar to non permanent
issues is a bit unfair to those who had no choice in how their life was.

anecdotal, the obesity numbers interest me because two relatives in a
Midwestern state both are on SSID from obesity related issues.

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stuckagain
Just looking at the map, I conclude that a lot of people are going to be
really surprised that the president they voted for, who stated among other
things during the campaign his undying dedication to preserving Social
Security, has appointed a Secretary of Health and Human Services who wants to
cut its benefits 20%.

~~~
brianwawok
Which members of Congress will vote on that though? You can't get reelected if
you cut entitlements.

