
Steven Sinofsky to Leave Microsoft - gabbo
http://allthingsd.com/20121112/breaking-windows-head-steven-sinofsky-to-leave-microsoft/
======
sriramk
This is a stunning development and most of MSFT is probably in shock right
now.

It's hard to overstate the scope and influence Sinofsky had at MSFT. This was
a man widely expected to be the next CEO and he had impact way outside his
organization (the 'Sinofsky-ization of teams').

Also, his stock was rising inside MSFT (when you stay inside the company long
enough, you can sense which executives are in trouble and which ones are going
up).

This is a unexpected move which is going to change Microsoft at a deep level.

~~~
psychotik
He was always polarizing and that his stock was rising is equally contentious,
IMO. Windows 8 was late, Surface seems to be underwhelming and his inability
to be a real team player are all likely factors here, as is his rumored
disagreement with Ballmer (though I had Ballmer on the losing end of that
one).

You're right that this will change Microsoft at a deep level, but I think odds
are good that it's a change for the better.

Personally, Sinofsky was one of the biggest reasons I left Microsoft. He was
willing to ditch potentially game-changing products/features spanning multiple
industries because it didn't align with his idea of software engineering,
which was more suited for boxed software like Office than for rapidly
deploying services. He didn't/doesn't get services - he's a boxed software guy
at his core. All the Office Live stuff happened after he left Office -
arguably he should have seen it coming and been ahead of the game while he was
running Office.

~~~
barista
I don't get this point. Windows 8 is probably the most connected windows ever.
The store, Skydrive ads, all are driven by services behind the OS. I don't
think that Sinofsky opposed or didn't get services.

~~~
psychotik
And Windows 7 had none of the services that it should. It's 2012, don't you
think it's a bit late already?

~~~
kineticflow
Probably because Microsoft was deathly afraid of being accused of "bundling".

~~~
jinushaun
This mirrors my experience with MS. The DOJ case had long-lived and wide-
ranging effects.

------
snprbob86
Ouch.

I never worked in one of Sinofski's orgs, but I know quite a few people who
did. I got the impression that a lot of old timers and under-performers
disliked him. Most of the people that I really respected liked him. From my
perspective, that's the best kind of "divisive figure" to have.

Maybe he pushed too hard...

~~~
asveikau
I did work in a Sinofsky org. I was an individual contributor and didn't have
a flashy title. What I saw was a man that maintained a sizable gap between
reputation/rhetoric and reality. The man who supposedly cleaned up Windows did
so largely by taking credit for the work of COSD, which he didn't run. For all
he would amusedly repeat the phrase "don't ship the org chart", we pretty much
... shipped the org chart. During the big re-org he seemed very precise about
getting a fixed number of reports on each team and having a constant tree
height in all parts of the org chart, but during the (overly long) planning
phase and during development he never seems to have asked the right questions
of the folks doing the Modern UI or WinRT, such as "dude, what the fuck are
you building?", or "does this shit make sense?" He empowered what is in the
end a very dopey PM organization. He and his people would also veto stuff if
it depended on non-Sinofsky divisions. He was also a staunch advocate of not
doing things right the first time, and letting it become someone else's
problem in a future release.

I also recall he wrote in a blog post that it should be expected that people
in their early 20s work unreasonably long hours and have no social life, and
that expectation was clear if you looked at the rank and file of many
important teams: lots of kids right out of college doing the work that you'd
expect someone more experienced to have some role in, or at least mentor; I
saw a fair number of regressions and crappy features result from this
approach.

Years ago some commenter on the "Mini Microsoft" blog called him "The George
W. Bush of Microsoft". I tend to agree.

~~~
mattydread
You are exactly wrong on what Sinofsky said about work/life balance.

From
[http://blogs.msdn.com/b/techtalk/archive/2005/11/16/493549.a...](http://blogs.msdn.com/b/techtalk/archive/2005/11/16/493549.aspx)

"The only thing I would say is that anyone who tells you how cool it is to
pull all-nighters on commercial software or anyone who says "I live at the
office" and means it, is really someone I would not want checking code into my
project. To be blunt, there is no way you can do quality work if you do not
give your brain a break. Since the 1940's people have been studying the
quality of work people are capable of without the proper sleep, change in
environment, and exercise. There are reasons why even back during Apollo moon
missions they forced the astronauts to sleep and not run on adrenaline. So
working at Microsoft does not push the limits like this--it is not good for
you, not good for business, and not good for the customers paying you for your
software. If a company is driving you to work crazy hours like this, either
because you want to or they want you to, it is just uncool."

~~~
asveikau
It's been some years since I read it so perhaps my memory is hazy. This is the
part I found most objectionable:

> In other words, no matter how many hours you are officially supposed to work
> when you are new you will put in a lot more to get those projects done. That
> is ok. No, that is expected because you are going through the learning
> phase. Your learning is not happening on a practice field but is happing in
> the big show. So the extra hours and effort are worth it to you and the
> team.

Then later:

> Microsoft will feel a lot like college in terms of the hours you put in and
> the environment you work in. It will be fun. It will mean late nights. It
> will mean "hanging out". All of those same things. That was my experience
> and when I look around I see the same thing happening now.

Even though your excerpt makes what I would call a more correct point, I still
think the above is uncool. Reading it several years ago put me off severely
and coming back to it I still think he was wrong to put it that way, even if
he partially redeems himself later. I read it as "it's OK and good for low-
paid college grads to overwork themselves, but later you won't want to do
that."

------
curiousDog
This is really really sad. Everyone must be very disappointed (Especially
mini-microsoft).

And the new head is a PM..heading windows engineering.

More on Julie from Mary Jo:

[1]"Larson-Green applied to Microsoft right after she got her business
management degree from Western Washington University, only to be told no. But
she did land a job at desktop-publishing-software maker Aldus working on the
product support call lines.

Microsoft "discovered" Larson-Green after a few Softies attended a talk she
gave comparing Microsoft compilers to Borland compilers and asked her to run a
Visual C++ focus group for the company. In 1993, she ended up landing a job on
the Visual C++ team, where focused on the integrated development environment.
She moved to the Internet Explorer team (where she worked on the user
experience for IE 3.0 and 4.0) and then, in 1997, to the Office team to work
on FrontPage, where she got her first group program manager job. She also did
a stint on the SharePoint Team Services team, back when SharePoint was known
as "Office.Net.""

[1][http://www.zdnet.com/who-is-julie-larson-green-meet-the-
new-...](http://www.zdnet.com/who-is-julie-larson-green-meet-the-new-head-of-
windows-7000007292/)

Looks like the beginning of the end to me.

On a conspiracy note, is Ballmer kicking out all his potential competitors?

~~~
xibernetik
The PM role is not at all about finance or marketing. PMs at Microsoft are
expected to be technically competent and depending where they're stationed,
may regularly contribute code. Julie Larson-Green is noted for her expertise
in UI/UX. If anything, this exemplifies a shift to focusing on the end-user.

~~~
potatolicious
> _"PMs at Microsoft are expected to be technically competent"_

That has most certainly not been my experience with Microsoft PMs when I lived
in Seattle. There were _more_ than a few who had zero experience writing code
in-industry, and many who I wouldn't trust with a product at all.

~~~
dthunt
My experiences with PMs were universally good; these are people who would look
at ideas in-the-baking and find ways to improve them, run interference for a
number of projects, put together decision-guiding research, and generally
somehow manage to bring things together.

There are bad apples in every bunch. The reason MSFT has so many PMs is not
that they are under-competent; I suspect it has a lot more to do with the fact
that it is a large organization that is often unable to silo teams from each
other effectively.

------
j_baker
_Sinofsky, though seen as highly talented, was viewed at the top levels as not
the kind of team player that the company was looking for._

Dear lord. This sounds like something from Office Space. What exactly is the
kind of "team player" the company is looking for?

~~~
ww520
I don't know. I found out the hard way that being too good a "team player"
will hurt you. People would just shove work to you or to your team. Or take
resources from you in the guise of good for the team.

One time in a prior company, an important database/server was under my team's
responsibility. Another team needed processing power and asked to borrow some
capacity before they ordered their own hardware. Being a team player I agreed
since it's good for the company. But over time their processing had huge
impact on my tasks and caused performance problems. When I asked them to
migrate out, it's always a low priority item, for whatever reason, budget,
schedule, or whatever excuses. It took a year to kick them out. I got so fed
up that I've contemplated to set up firewall rule to deny access from their
machines.

Did people remember I being a team player and helped the other team and the
company overall? No, they remembered my server was failing SLA due to poor
performance since it's under my responsibility.

~~~
kamaal
>>Did people remember I being a team player and helped the other team and the
company overall?

Screwed if you do, and screwed if you don't.

Generally happens in companies where people don't have what it takes to own
things up. Keep shifting blame on people until they take responsibility, take
credit for wins. But when there is a failure conveniently announce if wasn't
your responsibility at the first place. And if they don't take responsibility
name them as bad team players.

The game is set to use you and throw you. You can only lose in such a game.

------
randomfool
Good riddance. I left the company because I didn't want to deal with his idea
of an ideal organization. I figured he was a shoe-in for CEO and it was just
time until everyone was under him. Unfortunately I think he leaves a large
trail behind him- too many lower-level people saw no chance to escape his way
of doing things other than to leave the company.

~~~
dm8
Could you please elaborate on why you did not agree with him on his
organization plans?

I read his blog posts on their website and always thought he was technical and
bearer of change.

~~~
dthunt
There are a great many people in the world who are technical and generally
disagreeable.

Similarly, not all change is good change.

Organizational changes in the Windows org increased fan-out and forced
managers to take up additional roles, and also decreased leadership
opportunities in the org. The changes were in theory supposed to be better for
the leaf contributor (now you're only X steps from CEO!), but in reality,
having opportunities for growth is probably much more important than having
two fewer people between you and the top.

~~~
snprbob86
> having opportunities for growth is probably much more important than having
> two fewer people between you and the top

What a silly antiquated notion. You want a promotion? Start a company. Poof:
You're CEO. Just like that. The only growth going on in an organization which
uses titles and head counts to signify career progress is a cancerous growth.

Sinofski's approach to organizational design pissed off underperforming people
at the top and talented people at the bottom. As a (I'd like to think)
talented employee, I quit. As an investor, I'd have backed a Sinofski run
Microsoft. His model kept middle tier people making middle tier products.
That's what Microsoft has become and it's going to be far easier and more
successful to embrace than, than it would be to try to please everybody.

------
mikecane
Surface RT selling modestly due to limited distribution and poor reviews for
RT itself.

The hardware seems solid (I finally tried one tonight with both covers), but
popping into the Desktop ruins the experience for people who only want Metro.
(Me, I want full Win 8, so it matters a bit less to me... but breaking the
Metro experience is still jarring.)

OTOH, although I've heard of Metro app numbers increasing, there's clearly a
lonnnng way yet to go for it.

If all this is being pinned on Sinofsky, it's very short-sighted on Ballmer's
part. With the legacy restrictions he had to deal with, I think Sinfosky did a
very good job for a 1.0 product and the promise is there.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
From what I understand, Surface RT has been completely sold out for a week or
two now at all the Microsoft stores. Not sure what that means though...

------
NZ_Matt
CNET did an excellent write up on Sinofsky just last month
[http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57536905-75/steven-
sinofsk...](http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57536905-75/steven-sinofsky-
microsofts-controversial-mr-windows-8/)

------
volandovengo
I worked for Microsoft for 4 years - this is a HUGE surprise to me. Most of
the people I know who worked in his orgs were proud to work under his
direction.

I thought he would replace Balmer eventually.

------
sek
[http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-next-ceo-of-
microsof...](http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-next-ceo-of-microsoft-
steven-sinofsky-is-the-heir-apparent-2012-2)

Sinofsky was just too popular? Ballmer's CEO position is not sacrosanct. Some
internal guy being a prominent public figure is the biggest risk for him i
guess.

~~~
sek
A few guys from minimsft suggested that Ballmer picked someone else for CEO
and that's why Sinfosky left.

------
erikpukinskis
Interesting. Sinofsky was, along with J Allard, supposed to be one of the
product visionaries capable of filling the gap Gates left. When Allard left,
and Microsoft put its weight behind the "unified Windows" approach instead of
the Courier concept, it was thought that Sinofsky "won".

Now it appears they both lost.

~~~
cududa
No one ever considered Sinofsky a product visionary. He just picked people he
trusted. J is another story.

------
tiles
I always thought that Sinofsky was a driving force behind some of the changes
that preceded Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8. This comes as a great surprise to
me and I hesitate to think who would be in a good position to follow him (and
ultimately who would fill Ballmer's shoes in the company).

~~~
wsc981
One of the comments in the linked article suggests that this could mean that
the surface is selling much worse as expected. There might be some truth in
this.

As Steve Jobs has said: “Somewhere between the janitor and the CEO, reasons
stop mattering.”

~~~
barista
Or selling too well and causing the Microsoft partners to make some noise.

------
AdamN
Canonical should grab him for Ubuntu. Even if he was only there for a year, it
would be a great transition for him. If things didn't work out, he could
always just say the company wasn't ready for him.

However, if it worked, Ubuntu could take over Windows for the enterprise in
only a few years. Now is the time to strike while the iron is hot.

Of course, they couldn't pay him all that much but the upside is tremendous.

------
NZ_Matt
Here's Sinofsky's letter to employees on his departure
[http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-leadership-
changes...](http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-leadership-changes-
part-2)

He states that it was a personal decision to leave now, disputing the rumors
that he was fired. Although offcourse that doesn't mean he wasn't being
pushed.

~~~
camus
come on , that's always personal ... that's called PR ! dont you think he has
a contract that forces him to keep his mouth shut ?

------
rocky1138
"Nobody wants to be dubbed the future king while the current king is still on
the throne. It’s the quickest way to the dungeon."

Read more: [http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-next-ceo-of-
microsof...](http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-next-ceo-of-microsoft-
steven-sinofsky-is-the-heir-apparent-2012-2#ixzz2C4fOqBTv)

------
jimeister
This is quite a surprise. As someone who worked on Windows for five years
after undergrad and catching the tail end of Vista, people were thrilled when
he was brought on board for Windows 7.

As a low level peon, I respected how he could get the org to ship on time. I
think he'll be missed.

------
alpb
I am not sure what that means at the moment but he was a strong man in the
company so that he even prevented Xbox and Windows Phone divisions to develop
an OS other than Windows. He was also being called as the next CEO of the
company. I am not sure if that has anything to do with Win8. He was working at
the company since 1989. (I was born in that year)

------
malkia
Ballmer reminds of Stalin - remove the smart guys around you, so he does not
feel threatened. Okay, that's quite an overstatement, but it feels that way to
me.

------
podperson
Along with the departure of Ray Ozzie (thank goodness!), this actually makes
Cringely's suggestion -- <http://www.cringely.com/2012/10/28/steve-ballmers-
dilemma/> tl;dr that Microsoft simply milk its cash cow for as long as it can
and then turn into an investment fund -- seem like it may actually happen.

~~~
Overclock
That would be a very good option for the ppl holding MS shares, but can do
insane amount of damage to the IT industry - monetizing all those patents
without fear of losing reputation among developers, students, etc. and without
having to worry about new products being affected by other people patents.
Team up with the super-corrupted music/movie/TV industry to make non-DRM
devices and OSes illegal by bribing politicians.

~~~
podperson
I'm not clear how this would do any damage that MS won't do as part of
pursuing some other course. Does anyone doubt that they're going to milk their
cash cows while pursuing (say) the mobile market?

~~~
Overclock
Patents have bad reputation with the tech community, which means that if now
MS presses hard Linux and other products it will have trouble hiring good devs
later. But if they just support and milk their existing products they don't
need good devs so much.

------
yllus
I can't help but wonder if Forstall (Apple) and Sinofsky (MS) are two men who
would have been strong, maybe even visionary leaders had they been allowed to
reach the position of CEO at either company. I tend to feel that Jobs only
made CEO because he had also been founder and ex-CEO, and had a certain cachet
from that.

~~~
wilfra
Pretty difficult to be the CEO of a tech company without founding it.

------
darrenkopp
I hope this means that they start doing more .NET again, instead of going back
to COM.

~~~
undergroundhero
I hope so as well, the WinRT API is stripped bare. I was shocked to see how
much of .NET's functionality they didn't port over to WinRT.

~~~
asveikau
I'll agree that WinRT is not complete, but that's hardly COM's fault. The real
story is that they thought they could replace decades of development platform
evolution in a 3 year development cycle. And even in that 3 years, they didn't
think things through very well, or make many attempts to learn from history.
With that I would disagree that it's a good/bad, .NET/COM axis. Many
programmers are productive with Win32 and COM in ways that they are not with
WinRT.

------
glhaynes
"Andy Rubin is sweating right now." — @llsethj

~~~
RDeckard
I don't really get the joke. Care to explain? :)

~~~
fortes
Forstall and Sinofsky were both running the OS for Apple and MSFT,
respectively. Andy Rubin runs Android at Google.

~~~
Evbn
Sounds like Rubin is in a very good position to renegotiate his contract.

------
volandovengo
Reading between the lines here - for him to be fired, it must indicate that
signs are pointing that Win 8 will be a dud release, similar to Vista. Sigh.

~~~
mikevm
Vista wasn't a dud. It was mostly seen as a failure because a lot of
incompatible software (mainly POORLY written software, but MS is probably
partly to blame for that), and a few UX changes that forced to people to be a
little more responsible (UAC).

------
gadders
I think the message here from Forstall and Sinofsky is no matter how talented
you are, if you're a dick it will come back and bite you.

Being smart and nice will get you further than just being smart.

------
msie
I predict the Start button will make a return.

~~~
mkup
I guess consumer pressure on Microsoft tech support after Win8 release is
above any limits. Lack of Start button, no easy way to shutdown PC, full-
screen interface with no way of knowning which app is active and without easy
way to switch them - all of these ones combined make up a perfect techsupport
disaster. I wonder how large is average return rate of Windows 8 devices?

------
chj
If Sinofsky turns out to be in Cupertino tomorrow, then it would complete the
recent drama.

~~~
itg
If Forstall was let go for not getting along with others then I doubt Sinofsky
will be spotted in Cupertino.

------
DonnyV
Scott Guthrie for CEO!!!!

------
aristidb
I soo wish the firms would give out more than boilerplate in such cases. If
only we knew the actual reason... Now we're forced to speculate.

------
mtgx
If this means less or no more Metro in Windows 9, that seems like great news
to me.

~~~
CamperBob2
I can't believe Sinofsky was behind Metro. I expect more "Metro" now, not
less.

------
outside1234
its so sad. it's clear that nobody can save Microsoft from Ballmer now that
the ONE guy that can actually execute is gone.

------
HarshaThota
I know the reaction for Windows 8 and the Surface has been trepid but I
would've thought he would have been safe given his pedigree within Microsoft.

------
philcoders
Anyone think Microsoft will be announcing Scott Forstall joining the company
next? Sort of like the Marissa Meyer announcement for Yahoo?

~~~
camus
would be great !

------
programminggeek
Wait, Apple fired their top software guy and MSFT's top software guy leaves.
Why does this sound like Sinofsky is heading to Apple?

~~~
iamrohitbanga
I doubt if he will go to apple. He must be bound by non-compete agreements.

~~~
Evbn
That just means a six month vacation. Plenty of folks bounce around between
the big cos.

~~~
BarkMore
The Microsoft employment contract has a one year non-compete clause. Microsoft
has shown that it is willing to enforce non-competes and it is easy to do so
under Washington State law.

~~~
cookingrobot
That's why you file in California.

------
cubicle67
it's enough to extract one final post from minimsft
[http://minimsft.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/a-microsoft-
without-...](http://minimsft.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/a-microsoft-without-
sinofsky.html)

------
ilaksh
I hate Microsoft. I hate politics. I hate Microsoft politics twice as much.

------
yread
I was expecting Ballmer to be fired (for his last statement on Surface sales
being modest) rather than Sinofsky. Maybe the sales are actually modest and
Sinofsky is somehow responsible?

------
benihana
So I've always wondered what happens to you as a human when you're effectively
fired from a high level, high visibility position. How does Sinofsky feel
right now, emotionally? How does he feel professionally? Is this something
someone shakes off as differences between opinionated guys in an organization?
Or is this something that rocks him to his core? Does he go for another job
right away? Or does he write a book and retire?

I have absolutely no perspective on this issue and often wonder what it's
like.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Scott McNealy would occasionally send a note of congratulations on a
promotion, typically he would say "One step up, one step closer to the door."
That was of course figuratively true, and in the case of building 4 at Sun
also literally true since the executive offices were right next to an employee
entrance :-)

As others have noted departures at this level are always much more nuanced
than simply "this was bad" or "this was good." None of the departures where I
was pretty close to the departee and the situation were 'unexpected' in the
sense that their course had a way point which usually pointed 'up' or 'out'.

So think about your own career, think about what you want to do, what mark you
want to make on the world, what things are you passionate about. Sometimes a
company changes direction, from market forces or personnel changes and the
company and the individual become less aligned. Its always possible to see if
you can bring the company back toward alignment, it's also possible to see the
cost or probability of that happening.

In my own experience I was a VP level technical contributor at a company
during the dot.com boom. I arrived as part of an acquisition which was pushed
by the CTO of that company who had a vision for a richer services oriented IP
connectivity solution for multi-tenant buildings. A series of missteps, some
poor 'chemistry' between the executive team, and a general collapse of the DSL
market, made it clear that even though I had an employment contract with these
folks, the place they were going (back to their 'roots' as a wiring solution)
wasn't a place I would find very interesting. I talked with the CEO, we looked
at all the options, and both agreed that the 'right' answer was going to be
for me to leave. That didn't particularly bother me, because the parting
wasn't really a reflection on my ability or non-ability, things had changed I
had a choice, I chose not to follow that change.

Contrasting that for when I left Sun (certainly not as senior level as that)
where I had poured a lot of energy into the product that would become Java
with visions of building really strong capability based systems and light
weight task specific operating systems, only to realize that Sun 'corporate'
had decided that Java was the battering ram to try and deflect the Microsoft
Juggernaut of Windows/NT and a growing Enterprise presence. I was _really_
pissed off. I talked to Scott about it, Eric Schmidt (CTO at the time), and
James Gosling. To their credit everyone was very supportive of my passion but
in the end the company gets to decide what they are going to do with your work
product, and I could not get Sun Labs to sponsor my secure version of Java and
while I felt e-commerce was going to define the killer App, realistically in
1995 I was about 7 years too early to that particular party. So, just about 3
months shy of getting my 10 year pin/clock/whatever I stormed out. Emotionally
I felt pretty liberated, feeling like Sun was too clueless trying to protect
their enterprise accounts to see the low hanging fruit right above them.

The only place I have felt truly bad about leaving was Google, not because I
was leaving, it was clear to me that Google and I had incompatible goals, but
because I felt like I had failed the folks who were fighting the good fight
and I left them there to suffer. The path to success there was pretty clearly
laid out for those who looked for it, but the cost for me was high, too high.

~~~
kamaal
Gripping read. Its really rare to read battle ground stories especially from
people who have already 'been there' on the ground.

Its really great of you to stand up to what you believe and go that way. I
think that's the reason why you are the VP of blekko now.

Any advice to young folks like us, who dream to make it big some day?

P.S: Read your HN profile just today, although i've been reading your comments
and replying to them for a while on HN. But that's the beauty of HN isn't it?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Thanks for the compliments, I've found that advice tends to be situational and
so hard to transfer generically.

I am a firm believer though in three fairly general things; follow your
passion so that you don't find yourself regretting today what you didn't do
yesterday, seek out contrary views to help you understand your own ideas, and
choose not to take things personally. Doing that won't necessarily make you
popular or successful but they will let you stay centered and happy with
yourself.

------
camus
it only means one thing :

Surface / WindowsRT / Windows8 = "big failure".

Not so long ago , he was seen as the next Microsoft boss , but firing him wont
solve Microsoft problems , Ballmer is the problem.

~~~
alanspower
EXACTLY.. i called this some months ago when i saw him trying to convince
developers of APPs that Windows 8 in desktop PCs are just like any other
tablet consumer and will buy apps. Which is not true.. Good he's out.. Now
Ballmer has top leave as well. Surface should be launched all around the world
in all stores to developers see any penny coming from the Store. Instead they
did that freaky show in New York with just a few Surfaces while Apple threw a
big launch for iPad mini selling over 4 millions in a weekend. Surface could
sell that much IF microsoft made it available in all stores. GO Ballmer!

------
general_failure
Am I the only one who has never heard of this guy?

~~~
jacalata
Not at all, I expect my parents have never heard of him either.

