

Sorry, No Calls - codegeek
http://onstartups.com/tabid/3339/bid/92302/Sorry-No-Calls.aspx

======
falcolas
Judging by the comments - I must be the only one who feels that you can get
more done in a phone call than by email. Something that can take 30 minutes to
do back and forth by email or IM (usually longer, since it is asynchronous),
can be resolved by a quick 2-3 minute phone call.

The back and forth required to flesh out requirements and ideas just takes too
long to express well in an email.

And the small talk? A small price to pay for having all of your questions
answered in a timely manner. Plus, it gets me better at interacting with
people, which is always a winning proposition.

~~~
jwwest
I've never, ever, ever had a 2-3 minute phone call. In any business call,
that's just the small talk. Usually you spend the first 5 chatting, then 5
talking about the subject matter and then 10 trying to explain or clarifying
details.

Saying goodbye and hanging up is another thing we introverts are terrible at
too.

~~~
ajross
Your forgot the 7-10 minutes waiting for one of the invitees to join the call.
And the occasional feedback/echo loop followed by elaborate ad-hoc algorithms
to try to find the receiver at fault.

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zalew
Aside from it being the most counter-productive form of communication ever, I
see it as a measure of covering one's inability/unwillingness to explicitely
put up in writing what they really want to say. Why can't you take 15minutes
to think over and write your request? Why _both of us_ have to waste an hour
to talk over stuff that can be written in 15mins and read in 5?

~~~
Puer
> Aside from it being the most counter-productive form of communication ever

That's a ridiculous statement. Some people can better articulate their
thoughts if they speak it out loud, and some people can better articulate
their thoughts if they write them out. Calling it an "inability" and
"unwillingness" is just inconsiderate and stupid.

~~~
scotty79
What matters is not whether someone can better articulate his thoughts when he
speaks loud. What mattes is whether his recipient will better understand that
someone.

If you need to talk loud to articulate your thoughts then place a teddy bear
on your desk and speak to him as you are writing email to those who prefer
emails.

Personally I hate listening to "oh" and "um" as the person who just called me
tries to decide what he wanted to tell me.

~~~
danso
And some people hate the stifled feel of email exchanges. Vice and writing are
nearly fundamentally different ways of communicating, and the difference is
not just the physical medium. I've done interviews by email and interviews by
voice (and transcribed afterwards)...it's a different flow of discussion

------
recursive
I think that learning to talk to humans is a valuable skill.

~~~
zalew
give me your number so we can talk about it.

~~~
recursive
I emailed you.

------
nhangen
My company actually uses this to determine which clients we work with. If the
first email we get is a call request, then we politely decline to work with
them.

In our experience, having a 'quick chat' rarely if ever leads to business.
Most people know what they want already and don't need a call to confirm
and/or waste each other's time.

~~~
dshah
I love that idea.

As an occasional angel investor, I actually use a variation of that filter as
well. Out of politeness, entrepreneurs will offer to have a call with me to
talk me through their business. I tell them no call is necessary, they have
better things to do with their time. If someone insists on a phone call
without at least trying to see if we can accomplish what's needed over email,
it's a no go for me.

Thankfully, just about every early-stage entrepreneur I've encountered has no
issues with this approach. They prefer it.

------
zwieback
There's a danger to elevate inability to communicate by phone (or face-to-
face) into some kind of geek badge of honor. If you can run your business that
way that's good for you but it's important to keep in mind that there are some
potential clients, customers or partners that do better with phone
conversations.

It's not always the inability to put things in writing or plain lazyness that
makes some people pick up the phone instead of firing off an email or text.
Some people's brains have an easier time developing ideas in a conversation
and you may miss out on valuable opportunities if you dismiss them. You could
hire or partner up with someone who likes to chat.

~~~
luser001
Hmm, not sure why you conflate face-to-face and phone. I prefer to not talk
over the phone, but have absolutely no problem talking face to face. Just
thought I'd throw that out for the record. :)

~~~
innguest
Same thing here, I absolutely hate talking on the phone, to the point of
getting anxious when I know I am due to receive a call at any moment. However,
meeting in person is probably the most pain-free type of communication for me
- it even beats email because you can gauge exactly how the other person is
taking in what you are saying.

That's why video-chat programs like Skype help immensely with my phone
anxiety.

So no need to assume that those who despise the phone also dislike face-to-
face interactions.

------
sheraz
To each their own, but I would never want to work with someone who could not
engage in small talk. We are a gregarious species, and there is so much more
communicated between the stories, stupid jokes, and general banter (non-
verbal)

This post reads more like a personal observation of social anxiety and the
maladaptive behaviors borne of it.

I actually feel sorry for him because something so human and natural causes so
much anxiety.

~~~
CodeMage
Or perhaps he hates engage in small-talk over the phone, instead of face-to-
face. Or maybe he doesn't like to engage in chitchat with just about anyone
and reserves that for friends and family. Or we could judge him as a pathetic
guy who merely airs his maladaptive behaviors on the Web.

~~~
dshah
Oddly, I enjoy small talk in person in very small groups, but hate small talk
at "networking" events (like a cocktail party). It's all about the context.

------
napoleond
I strongly prefer conducting most of my professional communications over email
for most of the reasons listed. Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not
work that way--particularly in the realm of B2B sales.

I respect Dharmesh enormously. I am nowhere near his level of anything, and no
one has any reason to listen to me, but I still have to say it: if you want to
make money running your own business and can't afford to hire a salesperson,
unless you have a uniquely geeky clientelle you need to learn to talk on the
phone. Furthermore, _learn to enjoy it_. It's very doable, even for introverts
like us.

(FWIW, I strongly suspect that Dharmesh is very good at talking on the phone,
even if he hates it, both because I've seen his BoS videos and because it is
extremely rare for people to succeed in the way he has without being excellent
verbal communicators. He'd be better at it if he got past his mental block,
but he doesn't need to because he has hired an excellent sales team.)

~~~
mamoswined
* Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not work that way--particularly in the realm of B2B sales.*

Also "disruptive" startups that enter other realms are going to have problems
if they are adverse to phone communications. For example, if you want to do a
food startup and work with farms, you are probably going to need to hire an
old-school phone-loving sales person to help you if you are adverse to phones
because many farmers are pretty much the opposite of this article. No call, no
business for a lot of them. Many don't communicate by email at all. It is very
frustrating for those of us used to working in tech, but that's how it is
right now.

------
taf2
I changed something in my behavior about a year or so ago, I started answering
every call. I put a phone number a huge one on my website and started
answering and listening to my customers. It has been life changing, we know
what our customers like, we know what they don't like. We're excited to hear
and help them in realtime. Our customers love that we answer the phone. We
also do email and live chat, but for many the phone is great. I used to suck
at the phone and definitely I still have my moments. In general, I've learned
how to end the bad calls quickly - or correctly in that a bad call can be your
best call. When you can help a customer stay a customer, you can really do
this best over the phone. I think generally, this author isn't into customers,
but IMO if you're into software you have to be into customers - they are your
life blood - love them :D

------
gm
IMO, saying "I do not communicate that way, sorry" on an initial contact
request is a little douchebaggy (key sentence is "on an initial contact").

I much rather prefer: "I'll make time for a quick phone call, but I only have
X minutes for it." (5 minutes? Does not have to be a long time). Stick with
the time limit.

The first thing to say in the phone call is "This may be the last phone call
we have because [...]". That's better than coming off as some eccentric whose
most memorable quality is that he does not do phone calls. As opposed to
whatever you want the most-remembered thing about you is.

Just an opinion.

~~~
dshah
I'm the author of the article. I prefer the term "schmucky" (instead of
"douchebaggy").

In theory, I think you're right. In practice, just the thought of trying to do
what you are suggesting sounds awfully unpleasant -- even more unpleasant than
actually taking the call.

~~~
gm
Yeah, could not find a better term at the time, sorry...

But yeah, It's all subjective.

I think though, that setting a time limit as the first thing in the call is
far better than saying "I must go in two minutes" in the middle of a call. At
least the other party knows their time is limited.

But like I said, it's subjective and you certainly have a right to handle it
as you wish :-)

------
pseut
I wonder (sincerely), do the posters who prefer email to a phone call really
find other people's writing easy to understand? I love my own emails: they're
great and unambiguous and filled with insightful nuance, but half the time I
receive an email from someone else I can't figure out exactly what they want,
so we have to reply back and forth to clarify things or just pick up the phone
and talk.

And vice versa. They love their own emails too.

~~~
sopooneo
You make me realize that with people who can write well, I'll lean towards
preferring email communication, with those who can't, I'll prefer phone. And
by "write well" I don't mean having perfect grammar or spelling. I mean having
clarity of thought, delivering a clear progression of ideas, and being
concise.

------
arscan
Dharmesh classifies himself as a "complete introvert". And his behavior with
respect to phones is consistent with that. But I find it hard to believe that
he has gotten to where he is today by taking this kind of hardline attitude
w/all the ways that his introversion manifests itself (it makes me anxious,
therefore I won't do it, sorry). I'm pretty sure that all the public speaking
that he does makes him nervous as hell (he usually begins his talks by
admitting that), but he does it anyway.

As a fellow introvert, I am constantly trying to decide when to push myself
out of my comfort zone (because it would be good for my career), and when I
should just accept the way that I am and seek to add value in ways that I am
most comfortable.

I'd love to see Dharmesh write about how he came to the decision of where to
draw that line; e.g. phone calls are out, but public speaking is in. A
takeaway from this article could be "don't try to be something you're not",
but I feel that its a bit more complicated than that based on what I (think I)
know about him.

~~~
LaGrange
It's not taking a hardline attitude. If you have, for example, Aspergers,
unplanned, unscheduled conversations cause incredible anxiety and are
extremely hard to manage. This leads to miscommunication, arguments and
pointless stress. And there's no "taking myself out of my comfort zone" that
would help, I'm already out of my comfort zone whenever I talk live to someone
who isn't one of the half dozen closest people in my life. And even with them
it gets tricky sometimes.

As for public speaking, it's actually a fairly scripted and controlled
situation. A good middle-ground would probably be something like leading a
table-top RPG game, though for me that's already in the realms of fantasies,
and I'm pretty sure I'm doing pretty well all things considered.

Anyway, the point is: some of us have our special needs. Some people need
extra control over conversations due to their inherent vulnerability. It's not
just introversion, it's often anxieties and social disorders. I'm still a
pretty great coder that can get along with a team of living, breathing people,
and deal with a stand-up every day, but an unannounced meeting — not so much.

------
nthitz
Interesting discussion in that site's comments over whether or not the
author's use of The Oatmeal's comic images are fair use or not.

~~~
dshah
Indeed, I'm feeling badly about it. (I'm the author of the article)

Have reached out to Matt at The Oatmeal offering to donate $500 to his
favorite charity -- but I'm open to do doing whatever he thinks is right.

Although it doesn't excuse it -- I did link to the original comic, mentioned
Matt and The Oatmeal by name, and linked EVERY individual image back to the
original comic. I didn't mean to not give credit for the original work.

~~~
scotty79
I think you shouldn't beat yourself up about it. IMHO you did everything right
and some people are just too sensitive.

What's your favorite culture good for if you can't cite it as you make a
point.

People tend to get picky over everything when they strongly disagree with you.

------
sivers
The article and the Oatmeal comic seem to apply to people you don't like much
- people you don't really want to talk with by any means.

I also bristle at business calls, or calls from anyone I don't adore.

But _because_ I'm an introvert, I love the phone for some real good
undistracted one-on-one conversation with dear friends.

I prefer phone to hanging out in-person. I have a social window of about an
hour where I'm into it, then my tolerance fades fast. When you're on the
phone, an hour is a good long conversation. But in-person, an hour is so
short, it rarely feels worth the travel time.

My best friends are in London, Minnesota, Singapore, LA, SF, Portland, NYC,
Texas, Taiwan, and New Zealand. (I move around a lot. And many of my friends
are touring musicians.) Phone is the only way we keep in touch. The best,
deepest, most life-changing conversations I've had are by phone.

I think it's because I'm an introvert, and like low-stimulation environments,
that the phone keeps everything focused on the conversation itself.

------
gavinjoyce
I do everything that I can to avoid phone calls. As a developer, the
interruption to flow is the biggest deal for me.

------
Puer
As a writer I also prefer to communicate by email. I used to be very socially
awkward and introverted (and still am), but knowing how to communicate in a
wide variety of situations, whether it be by text, email, phone or in person
is an extremely important skill to learn, _especially_ if you're in a field
like software development or engineering.

1) I can relate to this first point, but at the same time it isn't like it's
impossible to have long or in-depth conversations on the phone. If you find
phone calls at random times distracting just set a time and date, or tell them
to call you back later. Also, in this day and age phones that support
voicemail are everywhere; if they leave you a message you can think of a reply
for a couple of hours and then call them back when you're ready.

2) Things like small talk don't have to be awkward. I'll agree that most small
talk feels "fake," but that's because it's used to assess your mood. You don't
have to pretend to be interested in the weather on Saturday or that baseball
game last night. Making small talk is a difficult skill to learn, but again,
you don't actually have to care or devote and thought to it. Asking how your
day has been going is just common courtesy.

I'm not going to address the rest of his points as they're personal problems,
but if you limit yourself to one form of communication you're going to limit
yourself in a bunch of other ways, too.

------
realrocker
Burnt down with stress and overworking, I was looking for ways to cut down on
my busy schedule. For last 4 months, I have implemented the "No Calls" policy
for all work-related conversations. I just stopped picking calls if it wasn't
from my family or a few friends. First few days it was tough to keep myself
away from the mobile as every ring on that cuboid would race up my heart with
nervous tension. But it subsided eventually. I have to agree that it has made
my quality of life better.

------
chollida1
I'm surprised at the number of people here who say that email is a more
effective form of communication.

To me I've seen way too many email chains deteriorate to the point where
someone finally steps up and says let's have a call to hash this out.

Conversely I've never once been on a call where someone has said, you know
what? This would be solved quicker and better via email.

If I need something done quickly then I always call. Email can be put off way
too easily.

~~~
dwj
Actually, I do that all the time (tell people it will be easier to do this via
email). Most of my calls are support, and it's generally MUCH quicker and more
efficient doing it via email than over the phone.

I actually removed the phone number from our website 6 months ago and we just
have email sales/support now. If someone prefers to talk on the phone (or in
the rare case where it would be more efficient to do a phone call), I just
call them back.

The problem is that I'm thinking we might be losing some customers who prefer
to see a phone number they can call, so I'm considering putting our phone
number back on the website. I just wish I could educate people to consider
sending a 30 second email versus having a 30 minute phone call to sort out
problems...

------
jwwest
This post summed up my feeling exactly as it pertains to phones. I spend at
least 30 minutes before a scheduled call nervously glancing at the time,
mentally preparing myself for the interaction.

Extroverts don't have the capability to understand introversion, as we don't
understand them. This is just a simple fact of life.

------
mhb
I wonder if part of the dislike of the phone is related to the proliferation
of the notion that cell phones work as well as land lines. I find the half
duplex way a cell phone works very annoying and it often causes the
awkwardness when both parties think they should start talking.

~~~
sopooneo
I looked up "half duplex" out of interest, and it fit closely enough what I
imagined it meant. But the first article I found says that cell phones are
full duplex. However I've found they have a threshhold volume under which they
don't send any signal to the other party, so perhaps that can make it feel
like half duplex. Am I misunderstanding this?

Link: <http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone1.htm>

~~~
mhb
I think you are right. During my search prompted by your question I also found
many complaints about phones acting as if they are half duplex though.
Variously attributed to echo cancellation, low quality phones, low quality
service, etc.

------
shanecleveland
Writing is certainly my preferred mode of communication. I believe I am able
to most clearly express myself through writing – so this typically means
email. I use it whenever I have the option.

I am not as comfortable communicating through conversation. I know people who
are extraordinary conversationalists. And I don't mean talkative. I am
impressed by those who can jump into a conversation and express exactly what
they want without having to collect and organize their thoughts, particularly
in the give-and-take flow of a conversation.

I know not everyone is like me, so I try to be flexible and accommodating to
provide a comfortable platform for the other person if a phone call seems more
appropriate. And sometimes a phone call is necessary.

------
scott_meade
And yet to get signed up with Hubspot seems to require phone calls?

~~~
CamperBob2
Fine, they can talk to whoever answers the pay phone at the bus station, just
like anyone else who asks for my phone number.

------
jon_kuperman
I can't believe how much that post resonated with me. Strangely though, I
consider myself at least somewhat an extrovert; I just can't seem to master
phone call etiquette.

------
pnathan
As a note, this is arguing from a position of power. Some people appear to be
generally incapable of textual communication; if they don't get to call you or
meeting you face to face, they aren't interested in dealing with you.

edit: I'd rather use textual communication; I feel its more precise, more
document-able, and you have chance to really think about what you're saying.
Of course I _can_ deal with other communication modalities, but... eh. Not as
optimal IMO. :-)

------
xarien
I am an introvert, but have forced myself to embrace and even love picking up
the phone. There is no better way to get a message across than to talk to
someone (even better in person). What's even better is that you recount the
conversation, action items, points taken away after the call with an email.
This combination has worked beautifully for me, and I highly recommend it.

------
msluyter
A little tangential, but it's interesting the extent to which phone
communication has dropped in my life. The phone on my office desk sits unused
in the corner, covered with dust. For personal calls, I'm down to a perhaps
2-3 a week, total; for everything else, text/email/fb is more convenient. Now,
I mostly view voice calls as an annoyance and I sympathize with the article.

~~~
tomjen3
I work for a somewhat hip company and we don't even have phones (other than
for the support personel) -- why would we?

~~~
btilly
At companies that are silly enough to give me a phone, I've found that the
main people calling me on it are recruiters trying to hire me away.

------
imgabe
Maybe I'll be in the minority here, but these are all problems with YOU, not
with the telephone. Observe:

> 1\. I don't like synchronous communications. Ok, sure, if you're "in the
> zone" or something, just turn off your phone until you're done. Sometimes
> doing your job means responding to things synchronously. I don't think
> there's any careers out there that involve 8 hours of sitting in your cube
> uninterrupted.

> 2\. I hate making small talk.

Boo fucking hoo. You have to express an interest in another human being's life
for 5 minutes. Cry me a river. You're an introvert? So what? That doesn't give
you a free pass to forgo all human interaction.

> 3\. I have a really hard time saying “no”.

Grow a pair. It's one little syllable. "no". Practice it in front of the
mirror if you have to.

> 4\. I'm pathologically polite, and just can't get the timing right.

Talking to people is like any other skill. If you practice it, you'll get
better at it. Maybe if you didn't avoid talking on the phone at all costs,
you'd improve.

> 5\. I'm absolutely terrible at ending a call.

Again, grow a pair. "Well, it's been great talking to you, but I have some
work I have to get back to. Goodbye" It's not that difficult.

I'm as introverted as the next guy. I hate talking on the phone too, but as an
adult in a business environment, sometimes you have to. You can spend some
time developing a valuable skill, or you can whine about it on the Internet.

~~~
handelaar
> Boo fucking hoo.

> Grow a pair.

> Cry me a river.

> So what?

> Again, grow a pair.

> whine about it on the internet

Knock that right off, please, and do it right now.

~~~
imgabe
Well, I've finished typing the post and submitted it, so that activity has
been effectively knocked off. Do you have a particular objection you'd care to
enumerate or do you just generally feel you have the right to tell people not
to post anymore?

~~~
handelaar
Right there in the very first line of what you should not do here in comments,
is a description of what you're doing here. In spades.

<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

~~~
imgabe
I think you're being over sensitive. This is nothing I wouldn't say in person
to anyone displaying the level of solipsism in this post.

------
rcarrigan87
Great post. I wasn't aware some people had such an aversion to phone
conversations. As for the argument email is more efficient, I don't buy it.
Both email and phone are tools that can become highly efficient or huge time
wasters dependent on how you use them. Really liked your advice on not making
buying decisions over the phone. Thanks!

------
scotty79
I have a friend who answers calls but openly warns his interlocutors that if
they want him to do something they'll have to send him an email because he
will most likely forget almost all of what was said (which is true).

------
slosh
sounds a lot like tim ferris

~~~
dshah
Really? I had no idea Tim was an introvert. For some reason, he comes off as a
complete extrovert.

~~~
patio11
I think the policy is similar but the reasoning is different. His is, IIRC,
closer to "phone calls are not the most efficient use of my time; I prioritize
efficiency very highly; you will deal." It is similar to e.g. a standing
policy to tell employees "If you require any decision from me regarding an
issue where you could resolve the issue yourself for under $100, resolve the
issue and add it to a spreadsheet. I will periodically have someone review
that spreadsheet. Rationale: These issues do not require my input to be
resolved to the benefit of the business, some more pressing issues do,
accordingly, we optimize me out of this process."

