
Positive Fantasies About the Future Predict Symptoms of Depression - bemmu
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2016/01/14/0956797615620783.abstract
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mariodiana
I've only read the abstract, but here is my guess. There is a phenomenon where
some people vividly fantasize about the "great results" of some yet-to-be-
taken action or set of actions. The fantasizing itself brings them
satisfaction. This satisfaction, then, in a sense undermines the sense of
dissatisfaction that is necessary to motivation. Thus, the person never puts
his plans into action. I would think that the resulting failure to achieve
then triggers depression.

In plainer terms, for some people daydreaming is its own reward, but it's a
short-term reward that undermines the effort needed to achieve reward in the
long-term. When the dream fades and you're still where you are, that's
depressing.

~~~
dmichulke
It could also be high expectations:

Woman: I'm going to marry a rich guy that I love and have three children and
live happily ever after

Man: I'm going to change the world with my non-profit start-up and be a
rockstar programmer. Later, I'll sell it for billions and spend time with
family.

Reality: Man and woman have a relationship that ends after 5 years, no
children, and both have a standard peon job in a big company without any
influence or reponsibility.

~~~
skaplun
High expectations for a woman is to get married? Not sure you realized what
you wrote

~~~
kl4m
I think it's more about the high level of happiness, not the specific
situation.

~~~
skaplun
Person Creates model, the go to is marriage for a woman. I'm sure he meant
nothing bad, still unfortunate.

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jawarner
Wow! This seems related to [self-discrepancy
theory]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-
discrepancy_theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-discrepancy_theory)),
which posits that the gap between the "ideal self" and the "actual self"
creates inner conflict.

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chipsy
If I might extrapolate with anecdotes, I know some people who are prone to
extensive storytelling about every event. This leads them tremendously astray
at times, because to make a better, more truthful story they weave in their
hopes, fears, and biases. A short news item becomes another data point in
making the myth of conspiracy, invasion, or the inherent failures of the
other. And self-encouragement to act on a task tends to take the form of
saying out loud, "it'll be better _when it 's done_."

But in both cases, talking it up does nobody any good. It's the mind being
directed towards rationalizations about the future as a destination, a place
to arrive at with a tidy fairy tale ending, and life doesn't really have
those. What life has a lot of is journeys conducted by routine, accented with
pivotal chance events. Whatever happens, you wake up the next day and
continue. And _that_ is depressing if you're convinced that an ending should
take place!

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carlmcqueen
Behind a subscription model for the journal, so unable to read the article
but:

I would love to read what the definition of positive fantasies in this case
would be.

I'm probably mostly curious because I've always been a day-dreamer and curious
what the difference from mind wandering to positive self fantasies might be.

~~~
nairboon
It's not defined very clearly in the article, but they seem to use the
definition from an earlier article:

> _" Positive fantasies about the future are positively experienced mental
> images of future desired events that emerge in the stream of thought ...
> They depict an idealized version of the future that may include the
> attainment of desired future outcomes, as well as smooth, idealized
> processes of working toward these outcomes."_ Kappes, H. B., & Oettingen, G.
> (2011). Positive fantasies about idealized futures sap energy

~~~
jsprogrammer
Do they define idealized? It seems the key aspect was just pushed off into
another word.

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conistonwater
How big is the effect?

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tedks
Really big actually:

>As expected, the more positively participants fantasized, the fewer symptoms
of depression they showed at Time 1, r = −.29, p < .02, but the more symptoms
they showed a month later, r = .45, p < .001 (see Table 2). The same patterns
emerged when we analyzed the positive- and negative-fantasies scores
separately (at Time 1: ps < .07; change between Times 1 and 2: ps ≤ .002).

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nier
I am reminded of how the stoics believed that imagining the worst outcome made
you a happier individual.

[http://www.philosophizethis.org/10-things-the-stoics-can-
tea...](http://www.philosophizethis.org/10-things-the-stoics-can-teach-you-
about-being-a-happier-person/)

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pc2g4d
Anyone have a link to the full text that's outside of paywall?

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cpncrunch
In the case where depression is caused by life events, I think a better
solution is to make changes to fix the problems in your life rather than just
engage in wishful thinking.

~~~
jacalata
Oh yea, my friend should have just fixed that incident where he found his
sisters body instead of being depressed about it.

~~~
cpncrunch
Why do people have to post dickish comments like this when there is any
discussion of depression? It should have been obvious from my comment that I
was referring to life events such as stressful jobs, bad relationships, etc.
and not traumatic events over which you have no control.

~~~
int_handler
I understood and agree with what you intended to say, but perhaps "life
events" may have been a bit ambiguous, and some people tend to define
"depression caused by life events" as depression caused by tragedies.

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mbritton72
This is another manifestation of delusional disorder.

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sebringj
What findings! Now go study why proving the obvious gives meaning to one's
life.

~~~
dang
Please don't post snarky dismissals to HN, especially of new work. Substantive
criticism is fine, of course, but snarky dismissals lower the quality of the
discussion.

~~~
sebringj
Here's a hypothesis: People that use positive reenforcement tend to need
positive reenforcement to right themselves and are obviously more susceptible
toward tipping over toward depression than individuals who are simply too
balanced and happy to even consider it as part of their daily routine. The
study is not obvious but rather obviously incorrect with a tainted initial
state of subjects leaning toward long term depression. Therapy is a symptom of
discontent. This is a case of intellectuals being outsmarted by their own
process.

I can't even joke on this forum. Marvin Minsky and Ray Kurzweil thought of
humor as a higher form of intelligence so what gives?

