
Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS - rnyman
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/08/building-the-firefox-browser-for-firefox-os/
======
darklajid
Love some Firefox OS exposure. I'm a fan, really want to see the idea/project
to succeed.

If you think about purchasing a device, here's my take.

\- the Flame feels really solid and looks quite nice.

\- the performance is nice/comparable to other platforms

\- current version (running from git here) of the OS looks nice and modern

\- it is trivial to build and install it (given a supported device ofc)

Ultimately it's not ready yet for daily usage for me, personally, but I
suggest you check it out, give it a spin. I'm impressed how fast it improved
already and hope to use the Flame as my default phone in the next couple
month.

~~~
gcb0
> If you think about purchasing a device

don't.

the work so far can all be done with emulator. DO NOT BUY A DEVICE. and as the
parent just said, the performance on the emulator is MUCH better than the real
device.

it is just more waste in the world.

Also, if anyone want a couple firefox phones msg me. i have a couple left. i
got them when i believed that since they were going to be sold in stores, they
would be consumer ready... and hence i needed to support them on my site...
big mistake on all accounts. to being with they are not consumer ready. and it
was close to impossible to find them in stores (despite them being advertised
on billboards all over the city)

anyway, if you want a phone, msg me. i have a few left. be warned that is
harder to flash than a re-purposed android phone. much. much harder.
(extremely closed components and hard to crate kernels)

This is not hate on the project. just on their careless aggressiveness to go
to market. the project has lots of future. just take your time before
polluting the world with pure garbage.

~~~
fred_durst
I've been building my ZTE Open since pretty close to its initially release. I
also use it as my daily device.

Also, I think this is your 3rd time(in my recent memory) derailing a Firefox
OS thread to talk about how there are no phones in stores etc. Are you an
astro turfer or are you just really angry at Mozilla for some reason?

~~~
Pacabel
I've been seeing these ultra-defensive "Are you an astro turfer or are you
just really angry at Mozilla for some reason?"-style responses more and more
from the Mozilla community lately, especially when somebody has raised some
perfectly good and legitimate points about deficiencies with one of their
products.

When discussing Firefox OS, it's perfectly reasonable and relevant to bring up
issues surrounding the quality and the ease of acquiring devices that run
Firefox OS. These factors have an absolutely massive impact on the experience
of everyone involved, from developers to end users, and will directly
influence the ability of Firefox OS to capture any substantial share of the
market.

Attacking the people who raise awareness of these very real problems with
these unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about "astroturfing" or weird
accusations of "anger at Mozilla" won't do Mozilla or anyone else any good.

Instead, maybe listen to what people are saying! The limited availability of
phones running Firefox OS is causing people problems, and affecting its
adoption and usefulness. The devices it has been available on so far have not
been very good, even compared to where Android and iOS were years ago. People
aren't just making these problems up; they're very real problems! The same
goes for problems that people bring up about Firefox, or Rust, or any of
Mozilla's other offerings.

Admitting to the existence of these problems, and then resolving them, will
have a much more positive impact than attacking anyone who happens to bring
them up. The fact that people have to bring them up again and again indicates
that they aren't being resolved properly, and that more work is needed.

~~~
fred_durst
As I said above, what does any of this have to do with the article at hand?
This article was not about adoption or competition. If I were being defensive
I would have tried to explain all the things I like about Firefox OS, or
talked about things wrong with Android. My issue was that it didn't have
anything to do with the article and I have a hard time understanding why
anyone would bother.

~~~
Pacabel
You do realize that the submission discussion doesn't have to pertain solely
to what was in the linked to article, right?

The topic is Firefox OS. Anything having to do with Firefox OS is worth
discussing, and is perfectly valid discussion. That includes its problems.
That includes how it is (or is failing to) compete with established players
like iOS and Android. That includes the sorry state of the devices it comes
with.

Deviation is perfectly fine. The point of the discussion is to share ideas.
It's not to engage in mindless affirmation of whatever the linked-to article
may say.

------
the_mitsuhiko
I really wish Mozilla would put the resources currently behind Firefox OS and
use them for something like a modern libgecko and standalone gecko wrapper
that runs on different environments instead of making an OS.

The blink/webkit monoculture is causing issues but every app is embedding it
because gecko as a platform for embedding is essentially dead.

~~~
fabrice_d
At this point making gecko nicely embeddable is not worth the cost in
engineering resources compared to what it would bring in. Servo, the next
generation browser is being designed to be easy to reuse and this is what
Mozilla is focusing on in this area.

~~~
anon1385
Mozilla have no plans to replace Gecko with Servo. Servo is a research
project.

------
Lerc
>I tried adding features to the browser app and every time I found something
that wasn’t possible with current web technologies, I went back to Justin to
get him to cast a new magic spell.

As someone who working on a project that is beyond your average webapp [1][2],
That is one of the most infuriating things to read. I need a Magic Justin!
Where can you get a Magic Justin?

[1] [http://i.imgur.com/cLcirMy.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/cLcirMy.jpg) [2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwNxDWwuY4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwNxDWwuY4)

~~~
benfrancis
I recommend the dev-webapi mailing list. It is full of Magic Justins waiting
to cast new magic spells for you.

[https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-
webapi](https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webapi)

------
diafygi
I'm super excited to see improvements in the built-in App Manager in Firefox's
developer tools. Hopefully it becomes a novice-friendly IDE that allows you to
quickly start a new app, add some dependencies (jQuery, tweetNaCl, etc.), and
start coding.

Having a built-in IDE significantly lowers the barriers for locals in
developing countries to quickly make apps that apply to their local community.

------
bugmen0t
it has its problems here and there, but 2.0 on the Flame is really nice!

------
gcb0
it's all hacks and fun until you realize you now can't run any extension or
global change in the 'browser'. :(

though another hack should be able to take of this easily... maybe even
without forcing extension authors to change their extensions...

~~~
fabrice_d
That will come, when I or someone else has time to finish
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923897](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923897)

These won't be similar to the old Firefox extensions because that really does
not make sense on FirefoxOS, but this is similar to user scripts and user
styles.

------
wldcordeiro
Isn't Firefox OS essentially a browser as an OS? Why have a dedicated Browser
app, can someone explain to me how Firefox OS is architectured?

~~~
asadotzler
If you read the article, you'll find this point addressed quite specifically.

------
soapdog
Angry Guys,

You're missing the point here. Firefox OS doesn't aim to compete with Android.
If you're running Android then you can use the Firefox for Android browser and
install the same apps. Firefox OS phones are targeted at people from emergent
countries who can't afford smartphones with Android.

There are countries where the cheapest Android device is about twice the price
of Firefox OS. In this context, people from poorer chunks of society can buy
Firefox OS and not get into debt.

Firefox OS is a tool to bring more people to the internet. To pick people that
are currently using old symbian phones, asha and other feature phone platforms
and offer them an affordable priced smartphone that doesn't break the bank.

Its made to be a simple experience for the first time smartphone buyer. Its
not here to replace Android or iOS.

There are millions of people that are experiencing the internet for the first
time not thru a desktop/laptop machine but thru mobile devices. Lots of these
people would get into debt to buy devices. Thats the target demographic.

If you don't understand this then its very easy to compare the platform to
Android expensive devices.

And yes the platform is young but it is growing fast. If we achieve all our
objectives the apps will work the same on Firefox OS and Android (thru Firefox
for Android).

The Web API is getting more complete and standarized. Soon you will be able to
rely on HTML5 for your cross platform apps and not be locked in silos. This is
more important than people realize. Being able to interoperate across
platforms and devices is one of the key success features of the web.

Now for a personal opinion. I have all the Firefox OS devices and some iOS and
Androids in here. As a developer, Firefox OS is the most hackable and fun
platform to program for. I have the absolute entry level phones and the
current flame device running our nightly version.

The flame is my currently daily driver and of course there are difficulties.
Apps missing, features missing. Its getting better and it is open in a sense
that no other platform is. I'd rather invest my time and effort on it now so
that in the near future with have a great open platform that keep being a
fanboy of some closed expensive thing where I have no say.

iOS and Windows are closed platforms. Android is somewhat open but since their
current tendency to move good bits into play services and not opening their
built in apps such as gmail and also the fact that you can't contribute code
and that the development is behind a closed door makes it less open and
desirable in the long run.

We can bitch all day here about missing features in any young platform. The
fact is, if you care for an open source mobile platform then you can join the
Mozilla community and help build one. If you don't care about open source but
care about society, you can also join and help build a system that is
affordable in emergent countries. If you don't care about any of the stuff I
mentioned, you can keep using whatever you'd like. We're not forcing anyone to
do anything. We're building this platform because the world needs a mobile
operating system that is developed in the open and that is truly open source.
Its young but its learning tricks every night...

