

Cool Socioeconomic hack for the day: "No toilet, no bride" in India - akkartik
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/11/AR2009101101934.html?wprss=rss_world

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cia_plant
This article is almost entirely fluff. It says that 1.4 million new toilets
have been made in the last two years. Is that an increase over the previous
two years? They quote a couple of Indian women who are on board with the
message. Do they represent the majority of Indian women? 90%? 10%? 1%? They
mention 'some' government funding. How much?

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sateesh
Why would a laudable social initiative like this be titled as "hack" in HN
submission. I don't mean that "hack" here has a negative connotation, but the
title here stretches the definition of "hack" too far.

~~~
akkartik
Look at meaning #7 in the hacker dictionary

    
    
       Hacker: One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of
       creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.
    

(<http://www.ccil.org/jargon/jargon_23.html#TAG833>)

I think a creative way to kill two very different birds -- the status of
women, and the state of hygiene -- qualifies.

~~~
sateesh
As the article mentions "No Toilet, No Bride" was a campaign with some funds
from government that was used to increase awareness of sanitation in rural
India. The innovative thing about this program was linking needs to improve
awareness about hygiene.

Many of the social initiatives/programs launched in India target basic needs
to improve awareness. A few I can think of at the moment are :

a. Midday meal to children attending schools (feed the hungry, provide
education)

b. National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme (provide employment and let the
people do something helpful (building roads, canals etc) for the
village/community)

I am no expert in this area and it seems to me that many of social
schemes/programs have this mix of targeting the needs to spread awareness.

Would then all these social schemes be qualified as "hack" ?

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Tichy
It's a nice idea, but I am missing the information on what made it happen?
Somehow all the women united to claim their rights to a toilet? But why? How
where they informed, how did they agree? It's not like they synced via
Twitter, did they?

Or was there no hack involved at all, and it is simple economics instead? As
the article said, women are becoming more economically independent, and they
are rare, so they can make demands. Naturally, a toilet is the first thing
that comes to mind.

~~~
chaosprophet
There must have been an NGO or a women's self help group involved. That is the
way things usually get done here.

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ramchip
Just like Harvest Moon! You have to get the house upgrade before you can
marry...

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iambvk
> About 665 million people in India -- about half the population -- lack
> access to latrines.

I stay in India, but I didn't know it is this severe :-(

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bluedanieru
It's nice that more Indian homes will be getting toilets, but it's weird that
Indian women had to basically stop putting out to get it done.

~~~
stcredzero
A friend of mine did this. She was a neo-hippie "earth mother" type. (Also, a
spoiled upper-middle class girl from Connecticut.) Her prospective groom was a
resident of the pacific island of Yap. Her demand: A western style toilet, or
I won't marry you! He rented a backhoe and laid the pipes of the septic system
himself.

(Unfortunately, I don't think they are still together.)

(When I see the headline, Bob Marley sings in my head.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Woman,_No_Cry>)

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actionjackson
Not a hack but a necessity imo. I've heard horror stories. Next time you walk
around inIndia make sure the vindaloo you stepped on is really vindaloo.

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dlsspy
That's pretty common here in the US, as well.

~~~
johnnybgoode
What is?

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grandalf
Translation: People in the US should pat themselves on the back and feel
enlightened because they have a toilet and modern sanitation. Not only is
having a toilet a convenience, but a statement of equality and fairness.

Articles like these help Americans feel that the US has a moral high ground,
which helps sell wars.

~~~
visitor4rmindia
How in the world did you get that from the article?

I'm really chuffed about these kind of "hacks". There are a lot of initiatives
in India to try and improve the lives of the rural community and it is really
great.

India cannot progress by leaving the villages behind.

~~~
grandalf
Well, you must think either

a) traditional methods of sanitation offer no benefits and only fools would
choose not to allocate resources to a western toilet

or

b) that it is the responsibility of those in the US to be entertained by
stories of third world men having to be forced to buy their women toilets.

It's a small leap from men who have to be coerced to buy toilets to men who
have to be coerced (via bombs) to not be terrorists, etc. The basic
dehumanization of the message is also a key bit of emotional distancing that
must be done before the American people can sit by while thousands of third
world people are killed by American bombs for no good reason.

~~~
Confusion
_traditional methods of sanitation offer no benefits and only fools would
choose not to allocate resources to a western toilet_

You sketch a false dichotomy: the choice isn't either 'they are fools' or
'traditional means of sanitation are just fine'. The traditional means of
sanitation are emphatically _not_ fine. I don't just think that, I _know_ that
is true. Half of our increased life expectancy comes from better hygiene and
sanitation. Have you ever been to India? Let me tell you, it literally
_stinks_ there. However, not investing in western sanitation doesn't make them
fools, because proper sanitation is really costly and the _perceived_ benefits
are small. It's entirely understandable they'd rather spend the money another
way.

How you can turn this into some cultural superiority issue is beyond me. You
know, India really _is_ behind the West in terms of things like prosperity and
life expectancy. That has nothing to do with making you feel good: it's a
plain fact.

~~~
grandalf
Sanitation is important. I am happy that there are a variety of different
efforts in India to increase awareness of germs and sanitation issues...

But an article about free hand sanitizer being given away at the grocery store
(for example) is far less entertaining to Americans (who have a taste for
stories about their cultural supremacy) than a story about men having their
marriage proposals shot down unless they agree to purchase a toilet.

The story humiliates and emasculates Indian males, and puts the blame for a
big public health problem on men, as if they need to be coerced to buy a
toilet ... which in India is still more of a luxury good than a sanitation
necessity.

Imagine a story about American men being denied marriage unless they purchased
a car with front and side airbags, anti-lock brakes, and traction control, the
cheapest of which costs $19K. Then the judgmental but bemused tone sounds a
bit more annoying to those who don't sense it when it's about brown people...
and coincidentally brown people are the ones we drop bombs on.

