
Yamato becomes Japan's first city to 'ban' use of phones while walking - chewz
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/06/25/national/yamato-japan-ban-phones-walking/
======
bartread
In general I find people using their phones whilst walking to be a nuisance,
but I'm still not particularly in favour of this.

There are at least two legitimate use cases that don't cause too many
problems:

1\. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation with
the thing held to your ear, or with a headset).

2\. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll
often use either Google or Apple Maps to set up directions before I start
walking. I'll then put the phone in my pocket and just pull it out from time
to time to check I'm still heading in the right direction.

The real problems are caused by people reading, playing games, having video
calls, or filming themselves (or others) whilst walking. They tend to dawdle,
lose awareness of their surroundings and others around them, and in general
behave like absolute goobers. Doing these things whilst navigating stairs or
escalators is particularly aggravating - not to mention dangerous.

This doesn't appear to be limited to any particular demographic or age group
that I can see.

~~~
tw04
>1\. Using your phone as an actual phone (i.e., an audio only conversation
with the thing held to your ear, or with a headset).

There's no indication this bans audio calls, given it specifically calls out
smart phones I'd wager that's not their intent.

>2\. Using it as a navigational aid. If I'm not too sure where I'm going I'll
often use either Google or Apple Maps to set up directions before I start
walking. I'll then put the phone in my pocket and just pull it out from time
to time to check I'm still heading in the right direction.

So be respectful and step out of the flow of foot traffic to check it? They
didn't say you couldn't use your smartphone in public, they said not to do it
while you're walking. I'm sure they got sick of idiots either running into
other people or walking into traffic with their faces glued to their phones.
Can't say I blame them.

~~~
Sephr
Phones can be a real-time navigational aid for the blind[1]. This requires the
phone to record your surroundings, which means either holding your phone while
walking or making a holster for the phone on the front of your shirt/jacket.

1\.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_AI](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_AI)

~~~
tw04
There are exceptions to pretty much everything. I doubt their intent is to
punish the blind and I'm sure if they ever put any teeth behind the law there
would be a carve out. No different then the countless "no pets allowed" laws
that still allow seeing eye dogs.

------
jrockway
My dream is that one day, everyone will see the imaginary lines down the
sidewalk that I do. Keep to the right, just like you're driving, and even
someone texting while walking won't run into. Sadly, these lines are imaginary
and while people tend to keep right, don't take it very seriously.

A deeper issue is how much of the space between buildings is dedicated to
private vehicles. When the sidewalk is 6 feet wide and you're required to
social distance by 6 feet past sidewalk cafes and garbage waiting to be picked
up, there is no room for pedestrians -- texting or otherwise. Perhaps we
should turn the two 8-foot free parking lanes into pedestrian lanes. Then
you'd never even notice people walking while texting. Or running 2-abroad. Or
kids playing with balls.

It will never happen, though. We need our cars, and more importantly, we need
to park them near our high-density housing ;)

~~~
catalogia
I believe in Japan, people walk on the left side.

~~~
bamboozled
Many people in Japan don't drive so they don't really think about "sides" like
people who come from car cultures do.

~~~
FemmeAndroid
Interesting! That’s a bit surprising to me. In Japan they have the yellow
tiles with bumps near the center of most city sidewalks that I always assumed
was a kind of lane system. If it’s not to create lanes, what are those tiles
for?

~~~
laurieg
They are tactile paving for blind and partially sighted people.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_paving](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_paving)

------
afarrell
In London, they used to have a prohibition against absent-mindedly using your
phone while walking enforced by privateer motorcyclists who would confiscate
your phone.

~~~
BillinghamJ
Sadly that tradition is alive and well. Angel is a particular hot spot for it

~~~
afarrell
I still remember getting my phone swiped on the sidewalk across from my
favorite restaurant on Chapel Market.

(There are many words I've adopted since moving here. "Pavement" is not one of
them.")

~~~
ghaff
Anecdotally, for some reason, random swiping and lifting of electronics,
laptops, etc. seems more prevalent in Europe than in the US. Whenever I've
heard of a colleague's laptop of whatever being lifted at dinner, it's
_always_ Barcelona, Amsterdam, Brussels, etc. rather than San Francisco or New
York City. I'm sure it happens in those places too but it seems less common.

~~~
fiblye
I’ve lived in some really crappy places in the US, but the only place I’ve
often seen and experienced people committing obvious crimes in broad daylight
was Europe. It was pretty weird having someone struggle to unzip my backpack
while walking down the street. I bound the zippers with a lock and they
couldn’t get in, but I guess they didn’t notice because they really fought to
get it open.

Seeing obvious pickpockets and scammers operating 10 feet away from police
officers while being directly observed was what really blew my mind though. I
hear loads of people say they’re disappointed with Europe and the crime is
overwhelming these days, but man, they’re not kidding. It’s insane what’s
tolerated so openly there. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t had valuables stolen
randomly while in Western Europe for short periods.

~~~
mdorazio
I personally think it is influenced by differences in the types of organized
crime we have. In the US, gangs and similar organizations generally don't
bother with organizing petty crime like swiping electronics. They're more
focused on drugs, prostitution, etc. In Europe, though, that's not the case
[1].

[1] [https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-
trends/crime-a...](https://www.europol.europa.eu/crime-areas-and-trends/crime-
areas/organised-property-crime)

~~~
catalogia
I'm quite certain human trafficking and drug smuggling occur in Europe too.

[https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/10/some-6000-people-a-
yea...](https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2017/10/some-6000-people-a-year-in-the-
netherlands-are-victims-of-trafficking/)

------
anderspitman
I finally figured out what bugs me so much about people walking while looking
at their phone. Without phones, when people approach each other in a hallway
or on the street, there's a lot of nonvocal communication happening. You don't
even have to make eye contact to decide how everyone is going to maneuver
around each other. Everyone is generally looking at a point far ahead and
walking in a straight line towards it.

Now enter smartphones. This entire communication is simply gone. People on
phones only see about a couple meters in front of them. They constantly shift
the direction they are walking. It's impossible to predict where they will go.
If you're walking towards them, this creates a small spike of anxiety in your
lizard brain because it's trying to communicate with them and the lines are
down.

~~~
isoskeles
For me, it creates excitement at the thought that I can inconspicuously
shoulder check some inconsiderate jerk.

------
microcolonel
Seems like it was only in force for a day, and carried no penalties. Also
seems like it was aimed at people who are looking at their smartphones
primarily (i.e. playing Pokémon GO).

I don't think they were looking to cure the menace of 歩きスマホ in the stroke of a
pen, but rather wanted awareness of the issues of being engaged primarily with
your phone rather than your environment.

[https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASN71728GN71ULOB004.html#:~:t...](https://www.asahi.com/articles/ASN71728GN71ULOB004.html#:~:text=神奈川県大和市で,確保が課題となる。)

The language chosen for defining 歩きスマホ (“walking smartphone”) uses the word
[https://jisho.org/word/注視](https://jisho.org/word/注視) in its definition, not
sure if this is just formal language, or there is some important distinction
between 注視 and 見て here.

Nonetheless, here is the draft:

[http://www.city.yamato.lg.jp/web/content/000159510.pdf](http://www.city.yamato.lg.jp/web/content/000159510.pdf)

And if you happen to live in Yamato, and want to track this, here is one of
the official pages for tracking the ordinance.

[http://www.city.yamato.lg.jp/web/d-seibi/arukisumahopb.html](http://www.city.yamato.lg.jp/web/d-seibi/arukisumahopb.html)

~~~
malikolivier
> not sure if this is just formal language, or there is some important
> distinction between 注視 and 見て here.

Actually 注視 is as well the word that is used in the law that forbids people
from watching the infotainment screen of a car while driving. 注視 means that
you are looking at something, while exclusively concentrating your mind on
this specific thing, not being aware of your surroundings.

Source:

Non-native Japanese speaker here, having lived in Japan for quite some time,
and who took his driving license in Japan.

注視 definition in a Japanese dictionary:
[https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E6%B3%A8%E8%A6%96/](https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/word/%E6%B3%A8%E8%A6%96/)

------
grawprog
I find the best thing to do when someone's walking towards you, texting,
totally oblivious to your coming towards them, is to play chicken with them.
Just keep walking, see how close you can get to them before they notice you.
It gets pretty close sometimes, almost had a couple collisions, but so far
everyone's looked up in the knick of time, gotten embarrassed and quickly
veered away. Gets that adrenaline flowing though.

~~~
saagarjha
So it looks like they’re not so unaware of their surroundings after all?

~~~
willcipriano
The human mind is incredible, the sound of a car in the distance getting
slightly muffled by the body now directly in front of you might cue the
subconscious mind that something in the scene has changed triggering you to
look up. My guess is all the talk of a sixth sense is just tiny cues from the
other senses all getting subconsciously analyzed together.

------
matthewcanty
I get that people dawdle but simply that 6% of people use their phones whilst
walking isn’t a problem. It’s an observation.

What are they hoping to change and by how much?

~~~
jdavis703
I’ve never been to Yamato, but pedestrian congestion is a problem on some
crowded sidewalks in the US. If 6% of users are blocking the sidewalk, it can
create slow downs for 94% of everyone else who are trying to get somewhere.

------
acd
Could we please do it in Sweden too. Sweden are too distracted in traffic for
their own good, its like mobile phone zombies sometime, people staring at a
piece of glass. This includes myself sometime.

Also cell phones should be banned in traffic because it causes distractions.
Attention in traffic is very important.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Sweden made it an offence to use a mobile while driving and then rescinded it
when they discovered that the law made no difference to the accident rate.

~~~
Barrin92
pretty difficult to know how high the compliance actually was. One of the
first articles I could find was that the police found it difficult to apply.

So likely less of an issue of it not being dangerous but rather hard to
enforce.

~~~
kwhitefoot
My impression was that analysis of the accident statistics failed to reveal
any effect. Of course that doesn't mean that there wasn't one but it does
suggest that it was too small to be useful.

------
okasaki
What a weird idea. What if you're using it for navigation? What if I want to
pause the audiobook I'm listening to? I have to stop and remove myself from
the flow of traffic? (not even possible sometimes)

~~~
microcolonel
I think probably _minimal_ use like that would not be an issue, and there is
no penalty at the moment. It'd be nice if they would link to the actual draft
ordinance, so I could read it.

Added: Yeah, seems like you would have no problem.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23731864](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23731864)

------
JoshTko
Japan needs to focus on real problems such as banning smoking everywhere
instead of use of phones.

~~~
kalleboo
They are
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/01/national/japan-...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/01/national/japan-
ban-indoor-smoking/#.XwFkLS0_C0A)

------
saagarjha
I really don’t understand how you can walk around on your phone with zero
situational awareness. Surely if you did it enough you’d have enough practice
to develop it? When I was young I used to walk around reading books; I can’t
see a phone being significantly harder than that to look past…

------
lumberingjack
Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem walking and chewing bubble gum?

~~~
dvtrn
On a planet with 7 billion people? Probably not.

------
new2628
What will be more effective in the end is if walking (also: eating, sitting at
a table, etc.) while immersed in a phone finally becomes uncool with young
people. So far it doesn't seem to happen (unfortunately).

------
Grue3
If you're proposing a law, and a study says that 12% of people would violate
this law, it's a major indication that this is a bad law.

~~~
fzeroracer
Is it?

Studies seem to indicate that around that many people admitted to or have
drove drunk in America for example. Does that mean drinking and driving laws
are bad?

~~~
Grue3
Drunk driving had to be banned because it's just too dangerous. It had to be
eradicated at all costs even despite many people violating this law. On the
other hand there's no indication that texting while walking is more dangerous
than walking while drunk. Walking is a low-risk activity which doesn't require
a license and people routinely do it while being under an influence.

~~~
fzeroracer
I mean sure, but that wasn't your original argument. Your original argument
was that if it affects 12% of people, then it's a bad law. We've now
demonstrated that reducing things down like that doesn't work.

There's an argument to be made that texting while walking can be dangerous
because if you're sharing a small space with cyclists or others then you're
potentially leaving yourself open to colliding with them. And ultimately the
cost to fix this problem is low and unobtrusive (ie just step aside).

~~~
Talanes
Their original argument was it's a MAJOR INDICATION of a bad law. Which is to
say that if you're law is going to be broken by double-digit percentages of
the population, there needs to be a solid argument as to WHY. A real counter-
example would need to be a law that is widely broken, has no demonstrable
benefit, and is still somehow a good law. Which is tautologically impossible,
criminalizing people for no benefit is inherently bad lawmaking.

------
joecool1029
We did this sort of ban in the 80's but with the Walkman:
[https://patch.com/new-jersey/woodbridge/walkmans-banned-
wood...](https://patch.com/new-jersey/woodbridge/walkmans-banned-woodbridge-
yes-law-still-books)

------
ravenstine
Eventually more people will be moving out of cities after enough of them
enforce one too many rules to appease some people. Obviously, not everyone
will, but it rules like this seem counter to what the global system wants,
which is to cram people into cities.

~~~
Barrin92
This is Japan, not the US. People in Japan don't balk at every regulation and
are generally pretty accepting of putting rules in place in public spaces if
it improves quality of public life, which is true for people in most cities on
the globe to be honest.

------
ekianjo
It will be as effective as JR recommending people not to use phones next to
elderly seats. Entirely ignored.

------
devchris10
I think the problem will be lessened slightly as wearables get better.

------
afarviral
Will this be effective without some form of punishment as a deterent?

~~~
yamakadi
There are quite a few rules and local laws in Japan that don’t carry any
punishment or, indeed, aren’t even enforced but are still followed. Making it
law in this case is more of a nudge than anything else. Honestly, it’s much
more scary here to be stared down by a group old people than the police.

~~~
iso8859-1
Just curious, what happens when the old people come after you? Is it because
they could be yakuza?

~~~
yamakadi
It’s just extremely uncomfortable. I try to participate in the neighborhood
events as well so it’s better to just fall in line (wherever the line is, not
really clear either). Just a recent example, I forgot to wear a mask last week
when I went to the supermarket and kept getting stares by other shoppers. That
wouldn’t be an issue even a couple of months ago.

I’m guilty of it now, too, though. If anyone is smoking on the road while
walking or biking, I lock eyes with them and they usually stop or at least
turn away.

------
Markoff
how does ban without penalty even work? isn't it called recommendation in
English?

------
nullandvoid
More bans like this may well be a big driving force in the adoption and more
rapid progression of AR tech

~~~
tomxor
For smartphones!? I can only imagine that being more hazardous.

Do you notice how we negotiate paths when we are walking? body language, with
particular emphasis on the position of the head and eyes. Try this experiment:
as you walk towards someone without a clear path to their left or right - walk
with intent to go slightly one side with your eyes/head slightly to the other,
usually your intent comes across far more ambiguous and requires more
negotiation than usual... now imagine people are not looking where they are
going (literally), while appearing to be looking where they are going. And I
don't buy that AR magically solves concentration by keeping your field of
view.

At least with those zombies staring down it's clear they are distracted so you
can ignore their body language.

~~~
ghaff
I'm sure I'm showing my age when I say that I really don't like walking in
cities (or anywhere really) with ear buds/headphones in. It's too much
isolation from the environment and I'm just not comfortable with it. I imagine
that's a minority option though and many will claim that the isolation really
isn't a problem with the right earpieces. But I can only speak to how I
personally feel.

~~~
apsanz
Transparency mode works well on Airpods pro but I never walk around busy
streets with both earbuds in. I strongly recommend only using one and
listening to audio books or podcasts

~~~
ghaff
I've heard that about the Airpod Pros.

I guess part of it is that I don't really feel a need to always be listening
to some kind of soundtrack. I actually do listen to podcasts when I drive,
especially on the highway. But I don't even routinely have music on in my
house and don't really like working with music in the background.

~~~
brnt
Ugh, I hate that, those people with contonuous soundtracks. They don't seem to
realize it's loud, makes them speak louder still and is a huge hit to their
ability to pay attention.

------
hootbootscoot
Good. I'm tired of phone zombies walking literally INTO me. There at least
needs to be some clearly defined etiquette.

"keep right" only works in right-hand drive countries, nor is it consistently
applied (shopping center escalators, etc.) except for Germany, lol

