
CVS Disables NFC Terminals, Stops Accepting Apple Pay, Google Wallet - rtpg
http://www.macworld.com/article/2839081/cvs-disables-nfc-terminals-stops-accepting-apple-pay-google-wallet.html
======
dang
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8508894](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8508894)

------
cheald
Well, as a happy Google Wallet user, I'm more than happy to take my business
to Walgreens, instead.

Apple's marketing engine is one of the best in the world. It seems borderline
suicidal to go up against them by intentionally hamstringing a new iPhone
feature in order to promote an inferior alternative when people have an easy
alternative. Google Wallet I could understand - it's been woefully
underpromoted, and carrier shenanigans have really stood in the way of
adoption, but Apple drives adoption like nobody else - I was excited for Apple
Pay specifically because I expected it to drive the adoption of NFC at more
retailers (which means more Google Wallet support for me!)

I wonder who greenlit this thing.

~~~
rtpg
Like you, I'm super glad that Apple Pay is using the same underlying standard
as Google Wallet (now all I need is a good Android phone with something Touch
ID-esque).

The greenlighting probably came from the entire Business Intelligence
department of these retailers who are going to lose the names of the people
they're recording. If everyone went to NFC tomorrow loads of people will have
to find new ways to do their jobs (ironically Apple is also pushing iBeacon
for tracking consumers, so the solution is already there really).

~~~
cheald
> going to lose the names of the people they're recording.

I just don't buy this. Loyalty cards are a thing specifically because they
give those retailers customer information and associated purchase histories
completely independent of payment method. Crank a few prices up and "reduce"
them with a swipe of the loyalty card and you've got all the data you need.

~~~
rtpg
loyalty cards give them the right to spam you with ads (through snail mail) as
well though.

I'm not saying this is a right action, but this is one thing they lose. I
don't know about adoption rates of loyalty cards at stores in the US.

------
vonklaus
I understand they would like to capture some of the value, but seriously? They
are building a technology that, when built, will be worse than already
implemented technology backed by the two largest tech companies google and
apple. They have to think, does getting the customer information (which they
could just freely share with each other without this system) provide enough
value to actually spend money to compete with large tech companies? They
obviously won't succeed.

~~~
klodolph
You and I think it's obvious, but the complexity of these projects is not
obvious to people outside the software industry.

------
raverbashing
"The upcoming CurrentC system, by comparison, will require you to scan a QR
code, or show a QR code to your cashier"

Yeah, good luck making this inconvenience fly
[http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/?ncid=rss](http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/?ncid=rss)

------
moonlighter
Goodbye CVS, goodbye RiteAid. Hello, Walgreens. I'll vote with my money (or
rather, iPhone 6). And I bet that they'll reverse that moronic decision
eventually once ApplePay gets sufficient traction and cuts into their bottom
line, and/or their own home-baked store-specific solution doesn't take off.

------
rtpg
Apparently CVS and Rite-Aid are participating in this competitor retailer-run
card program called CurrentC, run by something called Merchant Customer
Exchange

[http://www.mcx.com/](http://www.mcx.com/) <\-- their website is ultra-broken,
but seems like they're getting a lot of partners.

------
fphhotchips
No, America. Please don't ruin this for us. Australia has been ahead of you
guys on NFC takeup for a while now, and it's _wonderful_. Every
Visa/Mastercard has NFC support, and it's now super unusual to find a retailer
that doesn't accept it. If you guys come up with a competing standard that's
_worse_ , and it gets enough acceptance that it has effects over here, I'm
going to be pissed.

------
kumarm
AM I the only one who think this is a good thing? Why am I paying 2-3% Credit
Card tax for every purchase when I can pay from my Bank account directly?

Apple and Google took the easy way out to base on existing Credit Card
infrastructure where ultimately consumers are paying for it. Retail is a low
margin business and 3% definitely is a big deal.

~~~
earless1
Do you really want these guys to have direct access to your bank account given
their track record for data breaches? On top of this you get no credit card
protection, no rewards points on your card, and no double warranty which most
cards give these days.

~~~
te_chris
You're thinking too small. It's possible to have a payment infrastructure that
doesn't give Visa and Mastercard money, and it's possible for it to work
really well.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS)

~~~
rweir
note that in practice EFTPOS is getting beaten down by still not doing
contactless, while Visa Debit/Mastercard Debit contactless cards are
ubiquitous in Australia, and banks pushing Visa/Mastercard Debit for the
higher interchange fees.

------
stephen_g
Does that include PayPass/PayWave contactless cards as well? Most credit and
debit cards in Australia use that tech - disabling it wouldn't fly over
here...

Also, it's laughable to think that a system that requires scanning QR codes
would gain traction over an NFC based solution. Just seems janky and annoying.

------
javajosh
CVS, Wal-Mart, et al are pretty smart. I think this is less about margin than
this is about a nascent existential threat. It's about who owns consumer data.
That data gives anyone the leverage to displace your business.

You might say - well, what's the difference between credit card providers and
Apple Pay? It's this: credit cards don't have a screen; the output is a piece
of paper every 30-days.

~~~
cheald
How do you figure? They already own the consumer data via "loyalty cards"
independent of the payment method.

How does Apple Pay/Google Wallet rob them of information and put their
business at risk?

~~~
javajosh
It's not zero-sum; the data is duplicated, and then can be used to build
services that undermine the retailer. Slightly less nefarious, building
services which the retailer can pay for - starting an arms race that apple
profits from.

------
Slix
Why does vicious competition exist in the mobile payment space? All these
solutions only introduce a convenient middleman between the credit card and
the physical store.

Is there some sort of profit motive involved here, like fees off every
transaction?

If not, I have no idea why mobile carriers and retail stores are jumping in to
try to monopolize everything if it's just a convenience.

------
voidr
Apple should just return the favour by promising to reject their app, when it
comes out for the same anti-competitive reasons.

------
mahyarm
Meh, in the end, it will be another bank that NFC wallets will provide.

------
pinaceae
so this one finally made it to the front page.

very curious as to what happened to these stories here on HN. twitter lit up
(devs ands business people), gruber wrote a story, etc - HN could not get it
on front page.

~~~
dang
It was:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8508894](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8508894).

Curiosity is good, but I'm pretty sure the reason for what you're asking about
is just randomness.

