
Texas researchers seek to redefine U.S. whiskey - petethomas
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-whiskey/fields-of-dreams-texas-researchers-seek-to-redefine-u-s-whiskey-idUSKBN1JD09C
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toomanybeersies
Traditionally, alcoholic beverages were shaped by the environment around them.

The reason that Scotch Whisky uses peat smoked malt was that there wasn't coal
available for them to use instead. It was aged in used barrels for economic
reasons, rather than taste.

It's the same for beer, different styles of beer largely came about due to
differences in water chemistry.

It seems weird to try and artificially define American Whiskey by trying to
force a terroir in the product using selective breeding. That's backwards from
how the process has historically happened, it's artificial.

The whole artisan American Whiskey market is bullshit anyway. Most "craft
distilleries" just buy bulk white spirit or pre-aged spirit from a wholesaler
[1], then finish it in their own barrels. The usually use smaller barrels too,
to try an impart as much flavour in as short a time, leaving you with an
unbalanced whiskey that just tastes like an oak barrel. Sometimes they even
use tricks like artificially heating and cooling the ageing warehouse or using
ultrasound to try and speed up the process. But you can't rush time.

In fairness, it's not just American Whiskey that has this problem. It's luxury
spirits as a market. Luxury alcohol is a marketing industry that sells
alcohol. Vodka is especially egregious, where the bottle the spirit comes in
is often more expensive than the contents. Only 10 of around 130 Scotch Whisky
distilleries are independent, the rest owned by international conglomerates
like Pernod Ricard.

[1] [https://www.thedailybeast.com/your-craft-whiskey-is-
probably...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/your-craft-whiskey-is-probably-
from-a-factory-distillery-in-indiana)

~~~
im3w1l
I wonder if the endgame will be starting with something like everclear, adding
whatever aromas you feel like, diluting it down to 80 proof and finally
bottling it.

~~~
Animats
That's exactly what Frank-Lin Distillers Products in Fairfield, CA does.[1]
Ethanol arrives in tank cars from refineries in the Midwest, and is delivered
to their railroad siding. Water come from the water main. The ethanol goes
through some additional distillation and filtering. The water goes through a
de-ionizing plant. Water, ethanol, and flavoring are mixed and bottled, to
produce over a thousand different brands of booze, using many different types
of bottles. The bottle factory is conveniently located across the street. Only
a hundred different recipes are used. Few people notice.

Many brands of booze are purely marketing operations, with the production
outsourced. Frank-Lin used to make Skyy Vodka. Skyy, the company, just
provided the hype. That line was bought by Campari, which has their own in-
house production facilities. Frank-Lin still makes Beyond Vodka.

Frank-Lin has a cost advantage. In the US, booze production is separated into
distillers, distributors, and retailers for tax purposes. Frank-Lin is a
distributor. The distiller is a refinery-scale operation back in the Midwest
which makes industrial and beverage alcohol. So Frank-Lin handles the
distribution of all those brands directly, bypassing a level of warehousing.
Most of the low-end booze, and some of the high-end booze on the West Coast
comes from Frank-Lin's plant.

[1] [http://www.frank-lin.com/](http://www.frank-lin.com/)

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bsg75
Does the mash composition contribute that much to the flavor of a whiskey? Or,
how much of the flavor can make it through distillation?

I was under the impression that most flavor comes from the organic material
present in aging barrels.

~~~
kurthr
Yes, there are quite a few esters and acids that will hitch a ride with some
of the alcohol and water molecules that make it up the column. This certainly
depends on the type of still (eg plate vs alambic and continuous vs pot), but
there are a lot of flavors transfered. The distiller's job is to choose which
ones (eg at least remove the heads and tails).

One easy example is apple brandy which has a very distinct nose. It's not
until you multiple distill and charcoal filter that vodka loses its flavor
(you can actually detect potato, if you care to).

~~~
kurthr
I should also mention that low pH (acidic) environment is important to the
proportion of many flavors being transmitted. That means that distillers
(looking for flavor) will often prefer lower alcohol but fully fermented brew,
which usually means starting with lower sugar (less ripe fruit or less malted
grains). Corn usually starts high sugar so I'm not sure about them.

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coin
> they will plant thousands of non-genetically modified seeds on a commercial
> farm to ramp up production

Why is it relevant if the seed were bred using genetic engineering or
conventional?

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slededit
The same reason scotch whisky needs to be from Scotland despite perfectly good
whisky coming from elsewhere. It's social signaling which is the bulk of what
you pay for in a luxury good.

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madengr
And bourbon from Kentucky.

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insaneirish
Bourbon does not need to be from Kentucky.

Legally, it has to be >= 51% corn mash, stored in new oak barrels, and a few
other things.

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necubi
It doesn't need to be from Kentucky, but it does need to be from the US (in
addition to being majority corn, etc.) [0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_whiskey#Legal_requirem...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourbon_whiskey#Legal_requirements)

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intopieces
What's the point of planting non-GMO corn? What impact do GMOs allegedly have
on the final product?

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JumpCrisscross
> _What 's the point of planting non-GMO corn?_

Usually I would complain about the inanity of this process, but it’s whiskey.
The process is the point. It’s a hedonistic venture and should be embraced as
one.

