

Conflicting Assertions Over an Electric Car Test Drive - tokenadult
http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/conflicting-assertions-over-an-electric-car-test-drive/

======
tokenadult
There was an extensive, and on the whole rather favorable, review of the Model
S from The Verge

[http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/12/3969260/going-the-
distance...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/12/3969260/going-the-distance-
driving-tesla-model-s-in-the-real-world)

submitted to HN while most participants were discussing the John Broder New
York Times review. (Most participants missed the discussion on the article
from The Verge.)

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5208154>

The author of the report in The Verge takes care to mention, "Tesla hopes for
its first quarter of black ink this year after a decade of operation, but make
no mistake, it’s still in the throes of startupdom. Much of its working
capital has come from nearly half a billion dollars in low-interest rate
government loans. It has just a few dozen dealers around the world."

------
joshAg
"Here's the most important data point: Musk says Broder unplugged the charger
after charging to a range of 32 miles and then drove off for the final segment
of his trip which spanned 61 miles. The car made it 51 miles. If Broder can't
contest that, there isn't much use quibbling over Musk's other accusations."
[1]

[1]: [http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/elon-
musks...](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/02/elon-musks-data-
doesnt-back-his-claims-new-york-times-fakery/62149/#comment-799443017)

------
bksenior
I applaud the NYT attempt to come out and acknowledge what happened and ask
for a "fair fight" from both parties. This is much stronger than a lame PR
statement. Also the links to Reddit conversations off-site are a great
testament to just how much journalism has changed in the past decade. Can't
wait to see who wins this heavyweight fight.

 _slowly reaches for popcorn_

~~~
joezydeco
Wouldn't it have been nice if the NYT went out and bought a couple of GoPros
before the test drive? Musk obviously improved his recordkeeping, how hard
would it have been for the NYT to up their game as well?

~~~
aharrison
This is what blows my mind in both directions:

1) A reporter not recording everything he does in the age of GoPro and a 2 TB
harddrives at Best Buy.

2) Tesla did record damn near everything: GPS, battery, display, temperature
(internal and target), charge duration, etc.

Metrics are king, and I think we are ushering in a new age of "you can't
bullshit me, I recorded it too" journalism.

~~~
tptacek
Or, we are entering in a new age of "if you can't write your story with the
same rigor as a top law firm would write an M&A contract, I'll hang you with
your every choice of wording".

~~~
richardw
It's possible a damning story in an influential newspaper could have as much
impact on Tesla's business as an M&A contract.

If I were the journalist I would have got my facts checked with Tesla. If I
were Tesla, I would have checked that my response was ironclad, especially
when accusing a journalist of lying. Now, they have two problems.

------
jeffcox
In the end I expect both parties to be at fault, no one to apologize, and all
of us to be unclear as to what exactly happened.

~~~
stcredzero
Tesla has a chance to come out of this with more positive publicity than
before.

~~~
duaneb
This comes off as straight negative to me, especially considering the last I
saw of them was winning the car of the year award. I would probably have never
seen this review, and the fact that Musk is throwing such a tantrum about it
(to my initial perception, anyway) does not endear the brand to me.

I doubt this would ever affect my buying decision, but I wouldn't call this
positive publicity by any extent. Arguments and conflicts only look good when
you are the clear winner.

~~~
stcredzero
_> This comes off as straight negative to me, especially considering the last
I saw of them was winning the car of the year award._

If a bunch of people end up triumphantly tweeting about their successful road
trips as they replicate the trip, Tesla will come out ahead.

------
bitsweet
_I eventually intend to ask him to fully release and “open source” the driving
logs_

Wow... how 'open source' has become so mainstream. We can now all look forward
to the term getting fully diluted and loose its meaning. Already in this
article the term is being abused to, IMO, shift the tone from a "challenge by
NYTimes" to a plea to Tesla's values.

~~~
michael_miller
How do you feel that the term has been diluted? As far as I can tell, the
statement is true to the Collins dictionary definition of "intellectual
property, esp computer source code, that is made freely available to the
general public by its creators" [1]. The data is intellectual property that
will (hopefully) be made freely available for the general public to
scrutinize.

[1] [http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/open-
sou...](http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/open-source)

~~~
dfxm12
It is being diluted in multiple ways:

1\. The author is "verbing" the phrase

2\. The Collins definition starts like "intellectual property, esp. _source
code_..." I contend that (as does the free dictionary), in current usage,
"open source" refers _exclusively_ to source code. The author is using the
phrase to refer to _data_ , which is not the same thing.

<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/open%20source>

~~~
untog
With regard to your first point:

[http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=open+sourci...](http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=open+sourcing)

I think that the tech community is the one that verbed "open sourcing".

------
nickpinkston
As an aside, I love that they linked to the discussion on Reddit - even when
at the bottom it has its own comment box (with conspicuously no comments?).

------
duaneb
I realize that there are two companies' reputations at stake here, but this is
feeling a little like arguing over how stupid the driver was, not actually
about the Tesla itself.

------
rayiner
No, there are not conflicting assertions. There are objective facts on one
side, and assertions on the other.

~~~
BryantD
This is incorrect. For example, "Our Model S never had a chance with John
Broder" is an assertion. "Vehicle logs tell true story that he didn't actually
charge to max & took a long detour" is an assertion ("long detour") and one
that Musk backed away from.

There are also assertions in the original post that Musk's data didn't
address. For example, Broder said that a Tesla customer support agent gave him
inaccurate information about appropriate driving patterns for maximum range.
Broder may or may not be accurate there but it's certainly an important part
of the argument.

