
Why I threw away three Jawbone UPs, sold my Fitbit Flex and deinstalled Human - mgoesche
http://youscare.me/post/83655251649/why-i-threw-away-three-jawbone-ups-sold-my-fitbit-flex
======
sown
I wonder if maybe there's a mis-match in the customer's problem being solved,
and the expectations amongst different fragments or groups of customers.

I used disparate set pedometers, activity monitors, food and calorie loggers,
and it was kind of a pain. But I did use all of those, and I lost more than
100 pounds using those tools, which are important. Others can get by without
them. But why make it harder on yourself by having _less_ information?

I now have a FitBit Flex -- and most of these tools are in the same
site/app/device. It's great! Compared to the old set of tools I had, this is
way easier.

The difference is that the market fragment of customers that are represented
by people like me is that we are serious about fitness, and doing a few clicks
or taps isn't so bad. Especially compared to my previous tools of notebooks,
spread sheets, and bookmarked websites.

Having data every day is not only useful, but also vital. Even one day of
eating the wrong things can wipe out several days worth of work

I'm serious, I'm determined, and aggressive to meet my goals and those old
tools and the new easier tools help me out. A few taps won't stop me! Now that
I'm going through these last 15-25 pounds, I need all the help I can get and
the challenges I had in the past towards meeting these goals is dwarfed. by
new challenges.

If you're serious, these tools are useful. If you are more casual, you may not
find them so helpful.

~~~
IgorPartola
Off topic, but keep it up! Great job on the 100 lb. That is definitely not
easy.

~~~
sown
Heh, thanks :)

------
Brakenshire
I feel like fitness/sleep trackers show up how superficial our consumer
electronics market is - products were basically sold based on the concept,
hardware capabilities or pretty UIs, and there was an assumption that the
'clever stuff in the background' would just fall into place. But, in fact, the
algorithms necessary to track sleep, walking, cycling, running, etc, based
only on how one part of your body moves are really not at all trivial, and
indeed some of that may be impossible just from such a limited source of
information. And if I'm buying a device which claims to be able to do some or
all of those things, we should see proper empirical, independent trials in
advance that demonstrate that it works.

~~~
jzwinck
Remember Intel's Itanium? It was sold based on the concept and hardware
capabilities, and there was an assumption that a "Sufficiently Smart Compiler"
[1] would just fall into place. Knuth mentioned it later as "the Itanium
approach that was supposed to be so terrific—until it turned out that the
wished-for compilers were basically impossible to write." [2]

This is quite similar when you put it the way you did: the hardware exists, it
is intentionally stripped down to provide the theoretical minimum required to
produce the results people want, and we hope that software people will figure
out the rest.

[1]
[http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SufficientlySmartCompiler](http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SufficientlySmartCompiler)

[2]
[http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1193856](http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1193856)

------
suprgeek
None of the current generation of the "band" devices are in the finished
category. I have tried the Basis B1, Jawbone up and my current device the
Fitbit Flex.

The Basis was the most sensor packed bundle of the lot and that is a device
with lot of promise - two major issues for me:

\- I never got used to the fact that it needs to be in Snug contact with your
skin 24/7 for all the sensors to work this can get tricky when you sleep (for
example) and the device is on on too tight

\- No vibrational alarm A device that senses when you go to sleep does not
have a simple mechanism to wake you up smartly - just stupid.

The Jawbone up was an unmitigated disaster - should never have been released.

My current device is the Fitbit which seems to have gotten most of the stuff
right, but I still have to tell it when I fall asleep and when I am woken up.
I also have the Aria Scale from fitbit.

As other commenters have echoed, the first device that will make it "totally
frictionless" to record all the data will be a blockbuster.

My Ideal fitness device will also have a powerful camera that can take a fast
snapshot of any food I eat, use magic algorithms to find a match to stuff
known foodstuff (by using Image matching against a database of known foods)
and automatically give me the calories and micro-nutirents of everything that
I Eat/Drink.

Then we combine all this data with services such as WellnessFX & their Blood
Markers...

Then we integrate implantable "micro-labs" that sample your blood 24/7...

Then we add in genetic data from 23andMe...

~~~
rev087
The bit about taking a picture of food you are about to consume and
reading/logging nutritional data might be closer to viability once smartphones
get Kinnect-like 3D sensors, making it possible to read volume data. Google's
[Project
Tango]([https://www.google.com/atap/projecttango/](https://www.google.com/atap/projecttango/))
is one such initiative.

Does anyone know of any computer vision research into identifying food?

~~~
jxf
This will be an extremely difficult thing to do with just computer vision
alone. Small changes in food preparation and recipes that don't yield very
visible differences in the final product can have huge impacts on nutrition.

For example, a slice of chocolate cake prepared with non-caloric sweetener
will look much the same as a cake prepared with brown sugar, but it'll have
significantly fewer calories. (It'll also taste gross.)

------
dreeves
I too am frustrated by the current selection of Quantified Self gadgets. My
wishlist of features for a step counter:

1\. Self-charging. The Misfit Shine gets close by using a watch battery that
lasts months.

2\. Self-syncing.

3\. API, of course, so it's easy to automatically do things with the data
(like send it to [http://beeminder.com](http://beeminder.com) !).

4\. Waterproof, so I don't have to remember to take it off in the shower.

Basically I want something I can wear and never have to think about at all.

More generally, I think what's missing (extreme bias warning) with Quantified
Self is that it needs to evolve toward Programmable Self:
[http://strata.oreilly.com/2012/01/programmable-self-
motivati...](http://strata.oreilly.com/2012/01/programmable-self-motivation-
hacks-digital-data.html)

In other words, the point of collecting data about yourself should be to
optimize yourself, especially fixing procrastination and other forms of
akrasia like eating too much and moving too little. Sometimes just seeing your
data is a nudge in that direction but in my opinion (did I mention my extreme
bias as a cofounder of Beeminder) it mostly isn't.

------
Jemaclus
I basically had the same problem with my Fitbit and Fuelband. I wrote a
similar article/rant about this awhile back:
[https://medium.com/p/4dfd99a584d1](https://medium.com/p/4dfd99a584d1)

It's nuts how much manual stuff you have to do in order to get any use out of
these things. These apps should be smart enough to know when I'm running and
when I'm walking, when I'm sleeping and when I'm just sitting around. The
hints are there. It's just a matter of capturing them.

Annoying.

~~~
euphemize
There are 2 apps that do exactly what you're describing: Human (mentioned in
the title) and Moves.

~~~
Jemaclus
Yeah, I checked those out. Pretty nice. I really want them to be a little
smarter and make more assumptions about food tracking, too.

------
satishmreddy
I agree that the technology is not perfect and everything you want it to be
but for 99% of the population who get no walking at all, it is a wake up call
and helps a ton. I lost 20lbs in 6 months because of wearing fitbit and
jawbone.

~~~
Terr_
Anecdata: I've lost 60 pounds in 12 months, simply just using free apps to (A)
record my weight each morning and show a moving average (B) identify what
surprisingly-high-calorie foods and snacks I was consuming.

...And no, the bathroom scale is completely non-networked, my smartphone
simply prompts me to tap in the reading every morning.

If your goal is to "lose weight", then forget activity-trackers, because your
main tactic should be controlling the _input_ side. It's far easier to _not_
eat 200 calories than it is to burn those 200 calories off later at the gym.
It's also cheaper than buying expensive techno-nostrums / shiny-toys.

------
mkal_tsr
> Neither of the experiences felt seamless. I had to do way too much work
> myself.

This is the biggest problem with workout tracking IMO. You worked hard to
_generate_ that data through exercising, the device and/or app should be
facilitating the data aggregation and meaning w/o the user noticing.

I made TheSquatRack to help fix this issue in the fitness tracking space. It's
built upon the notion of workout routines being an analogy to programming, and
enabling TSR to be able to execute/run user-made workouts and routines with
multi-week progressions, modifications, automatic logging based on what was
planned, and more. And naturally, share workouts, templates, routines, and
meta-routines in a central searchable database users can browse, add to their
training repository, and more.

Technology is moving fast, everyone seems to want to say "look at this data,"
but there is a lot less "here's what it means, here's common solutions people
have found, and here's how to do it". TSR is the first thing I've seen that
can work for the first-time gym-goer to elite athlete: giving everyone
actional feedback on the data they generate.

------
kolev
The value of these things is correlating things and thanks to services like
Human API or Exist, people will do the heavy lifting for you. I personally use
Fitbit One and Basis, waiting for Amiigo to arrive, and, yes, I backed HealBe,
too, although most people say it's a scam - I really need the unique data it
provides. It's important to accept that none of those will be accurate. I
personally can live with 20% off - some data is still better than no data,
don't you agree?

------
ndomin
>But at the end of the day I really don’t need an app to tell me that I ran 7k
in the morning, walked 3k to and from work and biked five minutes to meet a
friend for lunch. There is literally no value being added to my life. By none
of these. This is the obvious stuff. Everyone remembers their activity during
the day and I honestly don’t care if my “Fitbit friend” Tobias walked five
minutes less or more than me.

Exactly why I've yet to buy one or even try one.

------
mbesto
I think what we're seeing is "wearable tech v1.0" where the marketing is super
strong, but the product is "meh". It's probably the reason Apple is taking
it's time to get into this market.

My prediction - FitBit will be the next MySpace; sell for a nice price tag to
the greater fool, and then someone else will come in and dominant this market
(Apple is my guess).

~~~
cma
I remember MySpace sold for around a billion and pretty quickly after the deal
inked a $1 billion dollar advertising agreement with AOL. Facebook ate its
lunch, but I'm not sure Murdoch lost that much on MySpace.

------
ethnt
I have had a Jawbone UP for about 8 months, and I've actually found it much
more useful for sleep tracking than activity tracking. The smart alarm feature
is, well, smart and I do feel less groggy in the morning.

That being said, I would still like Apple to get into this market. I know that
if they were, they would do it right the first time around.

~~~
rok3
I purchased a Jawbone UP about 4 months ago specifically for the sleep
tracking and smart alarms. I've never felt the need to use it as a fitness
tracker because I'm naturally working out more and feeling healthier after
consistently getting a good night's sleep.

I'm excited to see what Apple comes up with (though overall I'm not a fan) and
I'm also looking forward to the Razer Nabu. I feel like the current offerings
in the area are V0.* and they'll be the first 1.0s.

------
goshx
I bought a Fitbit Flex about a month ago. I am totally disappointed. It has
lots of bugs. The sleep tracking (which was the main reason I bought it for)
is just a very subjective/guess-like tracking mechanism. I wake up many times
during the night but if my arm doesn't move much, according to the device I
was sleeping. Not sure how they can improve that part. Now it simply stopped
reporting my sleeps. I tell it I'm going to sleep, then in the morning I tell
it I am awake and when I sync the data it has nothing in the sleeping log. The
steps also seem very inaccurate. Sometimes I wake up with hundreds or
thousands of steps (maybe I am a sleepwalker?)

~~~
mgoesche
My favorite thing was that I supposedly walk 200+ steps while brushing my
teeth. Nope. Again, we are all beta testers. It's like as if we'd be driving
cars that routinely fall apart every 50 miles -- and claim we drove 500 miles.

~~~
mkal_tsr
Just so we're clear here, your band was not on the wrist holding the
toothbrush, correct? hehe.

~~~
mgoesche
I know. And it was. But the app knew it was my "active hand" which should've
had some implication, no? Or am I supposed to take it off when I do everyday
things now too? Cooking = 100 steps. Washing my hair = 30 steps. Wasn't the
point to put it on and forget about it? It's just so flawed.

~~~
mkal_tsr
There's definitely flaws, but keep in mind, it's merely an accelerometer, not
a 9-degree IMU. I just left it on my non-dominant wrist and the FitBit and
JawBone have both been pretty close, though my BodyMedia (which goes just
below the delt/tricep connection) seems to be a bit closer to "experimental
results" in terms of calories / activities / sleep / etc.

------
websirnik
I had exactly the same experience. Owned 1-gen UP - total fail, the product
was not ready for the market. Owned 3 1-gen Fuelbands. All of them broke down
at some point.

The problem I see with activity trackers is that they collect your data, but
in return they do not give you qualitative suggestions how to improve your
behaviour. Suggestions that made sense. The data is becoming useless. I hardly
ever checked my Fuel stats during 2 years of having Fuelbands.

And I want to know myself:) Atm I have all sorts of apps that tracks activity:
Moves, Human, Breeze, Rove, Fitbit and etc. Hardly getting any value from them
at the moment. I hope in the long term I will. Long-term investment.

------
justjohn
I had a pretty similar experience with the Nike FuelBand I bought. I haven't
had any hardware problems, but I couldn't get over the feeling of having a
hard plastic wristband on all the time. The value just wasn't there to offset
that. Now it just sits on the charger on my desk, not doing much of anything.
These days I mostly just use the Moves app on my phone which gives me the
number of steps I walked and total distance, which is all I really care about
anyway. It'll take a really integrated/seamless experience to get me to try
another band.

------
joeblau
I love this post because as an entrepreneur in the IoT space, I agree with
most of what is being said. I've tried to come up with value-adding use cases
for quantified-self devices as well as smart watches and most of what I've
come up with has been very weak. It could be that I just haven't thought about
it enough, but for most of these wrist bands, they don't seem really helpful
in providing you better data than a phone. That coupled with the amount data
massaging you need to do makes for a very poor experience.

------
radiorental
I turned 40 and my metabolism went south.

I don't care if my Fitbit flex isn't the most accurate device, it's helping me
put some quantification where none was needed a few years ago.

When tracking my intake, I don't care that I have to look up how many calories
that Founder's breakfast stout is, now I actually know is 260.

I've gone from 'not looking at my credit card statements' to 'balancing my
checking account'.

Knowing roughly where you are is half the battle.

~~~
nathancahill
Founders breakfast stout!

------
hamxiaoz
I have exchanged to 5 Ups and all of them DOA. Since I bought from Amazon I
cannot get refund from Jawbone. Now I have my Up sitting in the draw for
months...

------
mattwad
I'm looking forward to getting a fitbit one soon. I have chose it because I
don't like having anything on my wrists/arms, and it also should be more
accurate since it sits in my pocket and not on my arms which may move when I'm
not walking. I read you can also put it in your sock to track bicycling. You
can't do that with a phone.

------
rdl
I find the M7 processor in my iPhone 5S to do 90% of what I want. The only
other time I care is when I'm directly using gym equipment, and I use an old
polar watch for that (since it interoperates with the machines and hrm strap).

------
tomasien
One solution is to use an aggregator like NudgeYourself.com - they do a great
job taking any trackers you use and aggregating the data. So you can have
Fitbit and Runkeeper and they'll stay automatically in sync.

------
jfoster
"It didn’t capture my runs properly so I had to manually input those"

I don't understand this bit. I have a Fitbit Flex and best I can tell it
captures my running just fine. I haven't checked that it gets the distance
100% spot on, but it seems quite close.

In my experience, Fitbit has been awesome. Keep in mind that 100% accuracy is
not the goal for me. I'm interested in the lifestyle change that it starts. I
nearly always hit my daily goals, over-estimate my food slightly if unsure,
and have managed to lose ~12kg since mid-January. Having everything fully
automated would be nice, but I think desiring that out of a device or else
chucking it is missing the point.

------
dev360
Ahhh MAN! This same thing with the bracelet breaking happened to my Fitbit
Flex - I'm freaking furious!

------
TheLoneWolfling
Slightly off-topic.

Is it just me who found the link underlining so low-contrast as to be
invisible half the time?

------
nazgulnarsil
DAE just want a programmable vibrating alarm wristband and screw all this
tracking crap?

~~~
pandler
Yes - one that won't shut off until I do some jumping jacks.

