
Microsoft is shutting down Mixer and partnering with Facebook Gaming - minimaxir
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21299032/microsoft-mixer-closing-facebook-gaming-partnership-xcloud-features
======
reggieband
I'm very surprised that MS has quit this quickly. I didn't expect them to win
in the short-term against Twitch and I doubt they did either. This suggests
that Mixer didn't just do poorly (which could have been assumed) but it must
have been a deep catastrophe that showed no signs of turning around.

I think the problem with video, and the monopolies it continues to create, is
the massive expense of data transfer. I'm guessing Mixer had
hundreds/thousands of streamers active at any given time. I assume this was a
massive cost and the revenue to support it (even ignoring their deals with
streamers like Ninja/Shroud) just wasn't there.

It makes me doubt the profitability of Twitch, although you can be sure they
are breathing a sigh of relief today.

~~~
Matt3o12_
> massive expense of data transfer

Does anyone here know how video platforms like Twitch managed to get started
considering how expensive cloud data transfer pricing is? The steam bandwidth
is considerably higher then video bandwidth (twitch uses a bitrate at around
8000k while YouTube has 3414k for comparable 1080p60fps videos). They also
cannot take advantage of edge delivery expect for very large streamers because
viewers expect a latency of 3secs or lower to their favorite stream.

I am really curious if anyone here knows how they managed to get started? They
probably couldn't take advantage of super low bandwidth prices until recently
because they were too small but had very expensive requirements (a lot of
streamers only streaming to a very limited amount of people with high quality
while also having a few very very large streamers stream to a huge amount of
viewers and all of that in real time).

> It makes me doubt the profitability of Twitch, although you can be sure they
> are breathing a sigh of relief today.

I think twitch is highly profitable these days. Streamers have a considerable
amount of subscribers, who pay a monthly fee of $5 (or sometimes even more)
and stay for long durations. Twitch takes a 30-50% cut (lower depending on how
big the streamer is and if twitch likes the streamer). Even streamers who
average less then 1,000 concurrent viewers sometimes have between 100-500
subs.

And they have also created bits, which is a virtual currency viewers can use
to tip their favorite streamers and twitch takes a similar cut (and they only
let you but it in bulk beforehand to make it less transparent on how much you
actually spent on them, similar to many mobile games in-app purchase model).
And they play ads before streams (and during streams if they streamer decides
to play them for a small cut), they also heavily advertise amazon prime
(twitch streams constantly say hey you can use amazon prime to subscribe to me
for free), they have premium users and probably even more monetization
techniques.

~~~
Mirioron
> _Does anyone here know how video platforms like Twitch managed to get
> started considering how expensive cloud data transfer pricing is?_

A very high quality stream at the start of Twitch was 2500 kbps. Viewership
numbers were much smaller. This meant that bandwidth costs were significantly
lower.

Back then ad revenue was much higher per user. Ad block wasn't common and I'm
pretty sure ads paid more. This essentially allowed Twitch (and YouTube) to
grow to become big enough.

Streaming sites before Twitch/JustinTV were even lower video quality. Eg
livestream. We're talking about 480p looking good in comparison. Even the
audio quality on those was poor.

Twitch actually had a great competitor in own3d.tv, but they had a lot of
trouble paying out to the streamers. That eventually sank them.

~~~
pratnala
Adblock doesn't work on Twitch though

~~~
Svenskunganka
It does, if you use e.g uBlock Origin. Twitch is actively trying to circumvent
adblockers but so far hasn't been able to topple the more advanced blockers,
even though they released SureStream[1] almost 4 years ago which is supposed
to "weave" the ad directly into the source stream.

In the announcement[2] they mentioned:

> We are well aware that many dedicated Twitch viewers use software that
> bypasses ads, and the rollout of this technology will reduce the efficacy of
> such software. As a company we are agnostic when it comes to the use of this
> software. You are free to use it, or not, as you see fit.

I suspect that either advertisers or streamers aren't using SureStream or that
it's quite resource expensive to "weave" ads into the source stream so Twitch
simply isn't using it when the cost of doing so is more than it generates in
ad revenue.

[1]: [https://twitchadvertising.tv/ad-
products/surestream/](https://twitchadvertising.tv/ad-products/surestream/)

[2]: [https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2016/11/02/introducing-sure-
stream...](https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2016/11/02/introducing-sure-stream-for-a-
better-video-ad-experience-on-twitch-3ca5ce3287c/)

------
kawfey
This comes at no surprise to the game streaming community.

A number of popular gaming stream helpers, namely Harris Heller from Alpha
Gaming [0], have kept streamers away from Mixer to focus on Twitch and hosting
VOD/highlights on YouTube in order to best grow a community.

Facebook is a large enough platform that this might cause some trouble for
Twitch, but we'll see. I think the gaming community is deeply seated around
Twitch/YT. Since Facebook has already lost tons of younger users, and rejects
anonymity, and doesn't have dark mode, I don't think this will turn out very
good for Facebook.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCATWC1JSlhzmYeDbjnS8WwA/sea...](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCATWC1JSlhzmYeDbjnS8WwA/search?query=mixer)

~~~
dimmke
The name "Facebook Gaming" seems really bad branding to me. That would be like
calling Instagram "Facebook Photos" or something. It just doesn't fit at all.
At least Mixer had some name ID and some high profile streamers locked into
contracts.

~~~
basch
This usually comes down to whether you need a FB id to sign into something.
Its "Facebook" if you need to be logged into facebook to get to it. In this
case, its a way to keep you on the Facebook site longer, instead of fracturing
off another uninteroperable (inopreable, teroperable?) platform.

~~~
oconnor663
"interinoperable"? :)

~~~
Ericson2314
"intraoperable" :D

------
Lorin
9 year gaming/esports industry insider here.

I don't understand why Mixer, after failing to penetrate the game streaming
market - didn't pivot to a tech/coder oriented streaming service. It would
have better integrated with Microsoft's other products (GitHub, Teams, etc),
and trivialized finding marketing/ad-fill partners.

Twitch has a 'science & technology' channel grouping which is nice, but
there's a demographic mismatch and thus it has less than 10k viewers on
average. This niche would have been a shoe-in for a Microsoft service.

I also wonder what would have happened in a parallel universe where Beam
wasn't acquired by Microsoft.

~~~
WorldMaker
It's a relatively smaller niche than gaming/esports, so such a pivot was
unlikely.

Microsoft did admit there is a smarter pivot on the tech side, at least.
Mixer's claim to fame over Twitch et al was lower latency streaming and
Microsoft admitted they are already working to move the technical teams at
Mixer to work on Teams.

> I also wonder what would have happened in a parallel universe where Beam
> wasn't acquired by Microsoft.

Best guess: something very similar. Beam would likely have also failed to
break much of a second place against entrenched competitor Twitch and likely
failed to find a solution to the network effects battles when Facebook Gaming
or YouTube gaming started up. Best case for them would likely have been an
acquihire by Facebook or YouTube rather than Microsoft in that scenario where
Microsoft didn't acquire them.

------
dvt
Interestingly, this indicates that the streaming market is saturated, and
Mixer simply had no room to grow. The analysts probably didn't realize their
gamble was a zero-sum game.

Ninja & Shroud weren't enough to tip the scales and Mixer had zero traction.
Of course they will be fine, but it sucks for the smaller streamers that
hitched their wagons to Mixer and are now left to hold the proverbial bag.
Even more telling is that Microsoft is burying this news under WWDC20,
probably embarrassed about the entire snafu.

~~~
noodle
Well, lots of streamers really don't like Twitch. But Mixer was a downgrade
for most people in terms of features and functionality. Same situation with
YouTube - a lot of content creators aren't happy with it, but everything else
out there is just a worse version of YT. The bigger, older platforms have a
lot of momentum.

~~~
legohead
It's okay to copy a product. You just have to do it better. And Mixer wasn't
even close. I actually liked Mixer's video quality more than Twitch, but
that's not what makes Twitch fun for users...

~~~
detaro
Mixer did have comparatively low latency and interaction features, that was a
unique point at least back then. Apparently not enough though.

------
errantspark
It's kind of sad to see Mixer/Beam go, they did have a couple unique features
I made good use of.

\- FTL protocol, a streaming protocol based on UDP which had sub 1 second
delay times, far far superior to what Twitch is capable of.

\- User interaction, I was able to quite quickly set up buttons on my page
that let my stream viewers control the RGB lighting in my room in interesting
ways, and it was a lot of fun for me as a streamer to get that realtime
interaction with my viewers

~~~
willcipriano
> FTL protocol, a streaming protocol based on UDP which had sub 1 second delay
> times, far far superior to what Twitch is capable of.

I don't use/watch any of these platforms but I heard the delay is a feature of
Twitch to prevent people from "screen peeking" players when they play online.

~~~
detaro
You can always add artificial delay if that's what you want, but if you don't
want to delay to interact with your audience/have them interact with the game,
you want something that can do low-latency.

~~~
zapzupnz
Totally. Avoiding screen sniping should be up to the streamer — in OBS, for
instance, one could set up a scene with one source item, an instance of
another scene, then add a delay filter to it.

Then one can freely switch between the live scene and the delayed scene.
Simple.

~~~
HacklesRaised
Moreover, your audience are all at the same part of the stream, not separated
by seconds because of buffering.

------
apazzolini
My solution to a streamer moving to Facebook Gaming is simply going to be
watching a different streamer.

~~~
jonny_eh
Streamers really are a dime a dozen. No offense to streamers here.

------
tech-historian
Mixer joins its brethren in Microsoft's list of discontinued products.

[https://www.versionmuseum.com/history-of/discontinued-
micros...](https://www.versionmuseum.com/history-of/discontinued-microsoft-
products)

------
JoshGlazebrook
The only thing I don't like about Twitch is they got rid of their Roku app. I
assume it's Amazon's doing, but it still eliminates a large portion of users
who want to watch gamers on Twitch.

------
MaximumMadness
If I'm Twitch the #1 thing I'm thinking about right now is how to extend the
olive branch to all of these creators. Favorable partner terms, sponsorship,
resources etc.

This is a market share growth opportunity that comes around very infrequently

~~~
bena
Really? Why?

Twitch is already over 70% of the streaming market. Let's say that both of
them go to YouTube. Let's also say that Ninja and Shroud accounted for all of
Mixer's market share..

That would give YouTube roughly 20% of the market, up from about 17%. Twitch
is still 70% of the market.

Twitch should be looking for ways to make it easier for streamers to stream
and get noticed. Find the next Ninja.

~~~
amalcon
I'm not really into that whole scene, but my third-hand understanding is that
the Amazon Prime integration is a form of this. Basically, while Microsoft
offered millions to people like Ninja, Amazon offers somewhere around three
dollars each month to each Prime member, with the restriction that they must
give it to a mid-sized or bigger streamer that they enjoy. This makes it worth
the time for growing streamers, and lets big-but-not-Ninja-big folks make a
job out of it.

It's actually a pretty interesting economic / business model case study:
they're basically crowdsourcing which streamers they subsidize while
simultaneously offering a cross-promotional perk to an existing customer base.

~~~
r00fus
Do you have a source on this? I didn't know about Prime scrip.

~~~
mey
See [https://twitch.amazon.com/tp](https://twitch.amazon.com/tp) (click on the
Prime Status on Twitch section)

------
ohyeshedid
My concern is how FB Gaming will be installed/embedded into the Xbox dash. If
it's like the current FB SDK, does that mean that FB will be siphoning data
off xbox users that don't use FB?

~~~
jitl
A closer partnership with Facebook is going to loose Microsoft the coming
console generation just like their focus on “TV is the new water cooler” lost
them the last one.

Gamers don’t want Facebook. They don’t want TV. Gamers want games.

~~~
TremendousJudge
>Gamers don’t want Facebook. They don’t want TV. Gamers want games.

Yeah, the fact that the PS2 could play DVDs had absolutely nothing to do with
its tremendous success.

~~~
twalla
This is how I convinced my parents to buy both a PS2 and PS3 - the PS3 was one
of the most affordable blu-ray players when introduced, it just happened to
have a game console attached to it.

~~~
jdofaz
It was a much better player than most dedicated bluray players at the time
too.

------
aboringusername
I find it intriguing that generally speaking, people have issue with
monopolies. Yet, as much as everyone claims there's a free market, MS has
failed with both a mobile OS and a streaming service, and essentially gives it
over to the giant.

FB didn't even need to do anything, just their existence and networking
abilities is enough to make alternatives unviable.

I do wonder what we will do in the long term as most places are centralized.
Google and Apple for a mobile OS, FB (or FB properties) for social networking,
there's Twitch for streaming, YouTube for video hosting.

These days, the chances of competition are (IMO) impossible due to the sheer
size and influence (and power) of these mega giants.

~~~
earthtobishop
According to the most recent Streamlabs report: YouTube Gaming Live accounted
for 22.1% market share for 2019 in terms of hours watched while Twitch market
share accounts for 75.1% and Mixer market share accounted for is 2.7%.

Youtube Gaming is also growing extremely fast since they have rolled out their
new creative suite.

[https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/streamlabs-
newzoo-q4-ye...](https://newzoo.com/insights/articles/streamlabs-
newzoo-q4-year-in-review-live-streaming-industry-
report/#:~:text=With%20a%2046%25%20increase%20in,share%20accounted%20for%20is%202.7%25).

Facebook Gaming hardly has any market share so I don't understand why you are
saying their existence and networking abilities is enough to make alternativeS
unviable. The streaming industry seems to be one of the most competitive
markets out there.

~~~
huhuhuhuhuh
A more recent report: [https://blog.streamlabs.com/streamlabs-stream-
hatchet-q1-202...](https://blog.streamlabs.com/streamlabs-stream-
hatchet-q1-2020-live-streaming-industry-report-9630bc3e0e1e)

facebook gaming is catching up really fast. it went from 'hardly any market
share' to 11% of hours watched.

------
sohamsankaran
I wonder what happens to folks like Ninja with big exclusive deals.

~~~
bdz
>stars like Tyler “Ninja” Blevins, Cory “King Gothalion” Michael, and Michael
“Shroud” Grzesiek — will be released from their contracts, and Microsoft says
it’s up to them where they decide to go.

>“It’s up to them and their priorities,” says Vivek Sharma, the head of
Facebook Gaming, meaning the platform isn’t actively pursuing exclusive
agreements with any of Mixer’s biggest names.

[https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298963/ninja-shroud-
mix...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298963/ninja-shroud-mixer-
facebook-gaming-twitch)

~~~
karthikshan
Does this mean they don't get paid out for the remainder of their contract?
These streamers took a massive brand hit by leaving twitch for so long...

~~~
Wafje
It seems like they do.
[https://twitter.com/RLewisReports/status/1275139749716480000](https://twitter.com/RLewisReports/status/1275139749716480000)

------
thorum
Mixer had potential as a streaming platform, they completely failed to create
a culture anything like what Twitch has. Any streamer who wanted to move to
Mixer would have to sacrifice being part of that Twitch community.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
Their culture is 100% why they failed. They were technically far superior to
Twitch. Their video quality was much better with lower CPU utilization, their
latency was extremely low, and their UI was intuitive and butter smooth.

Their culture though... Before Shroud and Ninja joined, there were rules that
you couldn't tell people your age. They had rules on how wide your shirt
straps could be, and just generally seemed like if you had any opinions on
other people, you would be chastised. They valued explicit political
correctness, but that's not so good when you're making a place designed for
just chilling and hanging out... At least, not when you're trying to grow.

~~~
Goronmon
_They valued explicit political correctness, but that 's not so good when
you're making a place designed for just chilling and hanging out... At least,
not when you're trying to grow._

Another way to word it is that the online gaming community is extremely toxic
and you have to accept a decent chunk of that toxicity to grow a community in
the gaming space.

~~~
TheAdamAndChe
What I am about to say, I mean with absolutely no disrespect. What you
consider non-toxic is considered uptight and overly sensitive by many...
Whether you think that's right or not is beside the point. I understand the
need for political correctness and politicing at work. It keeps conflicts from
arising and it avoids hurt feelings. It's not as valued by many people outside
of work. That can affect the growth of sites like this.

Put in another way: each stream is an individual community. By making such
explicit rules, they are policing culture and suppressing certain identities.
That is counter to the environment needed for growth.

------
tinodotim
Remarkable if Microsoft really thought they could just buy two big streamers
(and a couple of smaller ones) to get Mixer going and that Twitch market share
- without making much change to the platform and its community.

"A typical Microsoft" I guess?

Big pay day for Ninja & Shroud though if they're really just free to join
Twitch again, their returns will be huge.

------
saltedonion
What’s preventing streamers from streaming to multiple platforms at once. Is
it against he Eula or something ?

~~~
WesleyLivesay
Monetization. The platforms require Affiliate/Partner streamers (so people
with Subscribe buttons) to be exclusive streamers on their platform.

~~~
ehsankia
What if you're not a partner on the other platforms, can you still stream to
Facebook, Youtube, Twitch, all at the same time? Smaller streams rely heavily
on chat and interactions, but 1000+ viewer streams generally don't so you
don't need to read 3 different chats. You can still receive donations and
maybe ad money?

~~~
brian-armstrong
Why do you think this would help? Going from 0 to 1 viewers on one platform
alone is quite hard, and then again for 1 to 10 viewers. You would have to put
in that effort for each different platform, and ultimately you would still
need to pick one and ditch the others once you qualify for partnership

~~~
ehsankia
As was implied in my comment, I was thinking of larger streamers with
thousands of viewers that don't rely on chat. Someone like Ninja who gets 100k
viewers could get a couple thousands more off other platforms potentially.

------
butler14
This seems super out of no where and way too soon to throw the towel in.

Thinking there was some break clauses in Ninja and Shroud’s contracts that
incentivised MS’s early exit.

------
lawik
Microsoft has done so much to improve their reputation. I think this is a risk
and a mistake.

------
alibert
Mixer has a nice streaming tech. I used to stream to a friend who could
interact (voice chat) with me with almost no stream delay (<500ms). I don't
think Twitch offers a latency as low as Mixer. Last time I tried (some weeks
ago), it was still 2+ secs.

~~~
HacklesRaised
Caffeine.tv offer similar latency. (Full disclosure, I used to work there)

------
mxscho
[https://www.streamhatchet.com/pdf/report2019.pdf](https://www.streamhatchet.com/pdf/report2019.pdf)

Some 2019 streaming numbers from pre-Corona era which I found interesting at
that time. Mixer declined in hours watched after summer of 2019. Also
interesting to see that Facebook "Gaming"'s top games only feature mobile
games. Being a gamer myself I therefore find it difficult to really view them
as a serious competitor to the game streaming market of YouTube and Twitch.
Maybe this will change with Mixer's user base.

------
Yhippa
Bummer. Streaming from the Xbox was easy and fun. You could stream a
multiplayer game with your friends! Friction was reduced to stream and you
didn't need to mess with stream keys or overlays. Sad.

~~~
superbaconman
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. This was a very nice Xbox feature. They
had it for PC on their Xbox bar for a while; You could stream any window or
your desktop to the same mixer account as your gamertag. Then one day it just
disappeared. I guess that should have been a sign they were having issues.

~~~
Yhippa
I was wondering where that that went and thought it was a bug or something.

------
numlock86
>dead streaming is shutting down and partnering with dead streaming

The only real alternative to Twitch is streaming live on YouTube. Not a
competitor, but an alternative. And that's only because they have a massive
viewership already. A lot of those probably never heard about Mixer or even
Twitch at all.

You'd think it's the same with Facebook, but that's like a different target
audience. You don't usually go to Facebook to binge videos. Just like it would
make no sense to stream live on Twitter.

------
detaro
Mixer had (pre-Microsoft) some neat tech, but wasn't enough in the end. The
few streamers I knew moved there have all long moved back.

------
Sleaker
is FB gaming even a platform that people _want_ ? I just get annoyed and skip
past stuff that shows up on my feed cause that's not how I want to use FB
ever.. If I wanted to watch someone streaming I'd go use a site specifically
for that, but maybe my internet use is dissimilar to how most people expect
content to be delivered?

------
totaldude87
Didnt ninja and Shroud bag a lucrative deal with Mixer this year?! guess they
will go back to twitch after all

[https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/ninja-shroud-could-
ret...](https://www.dexerto.com/entertainment/ninja-shroud-could-return-to-
twitch-after-mixer-joins-facebook-gaming-1383085)

~~~
minimaxir
> Sources: Facebook offered an insane offer at almost double for the original
> Mixer contracts of Ninja and Shroud but Loaded/Ninja/Shroud said no and
> forced Mixer to buy them out. Ninja made ~$30M from Mixer, and Shroud made
> ~$10M

> Ninja and Shroud are now free agents

[https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1275145243478892544](https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1275145243478892544)

~~~
apacheCamel
Man, getting paid to switch just to have the service go bunk anyway. Probably
one of the easiest $30M ever. I really wonder if he lost any sort of revenue
over those months that he switched? I can't imagine it coming anywhere close
to the $30M he made just for the time.

~~~
EastSmith
Ninja had 80-100k viewers when he switched to Mixer, and now on Mixer he has
2-5k. Each sub on twitch was making him $3-4/month (do not know how many subs
he had, but I can imagine 10-30k). So, he lost $30-$120k on Twitch subs alone
per month.

Then an Ad on Twitch in front of 100k viewers is different than an Ad on Mixer
(not really sure if they have Ads on Mixer). With Ninja's viewership on Twitch
60 second Ad, can probably bring him more than $10k. Not sure if he had used
Ads though (may streamers chose not to use them).

------
s9w
Wow that came out of nowhere. Mixer could be so great but they're massively
mismanaged with what I guess is out of touch management. They had such a big
budget and still failed. Like many couldn't get used to the bad site and never
used is. But competition for twitch would have been nice. The internet can be
weird.

------
i_rawr_u
[https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298963/ninja-shroud-
mix...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298963/ninja-shroud-mixer-
facebook-gaming-twitch)

I'm wondering how these contracts for the the Mixer exclusives will pay out.

------
pochamago
I always hoped Mixer would do better, I really liked watching E3 conferences
on it over Twitch and YouTube. Its latency really was way better than them,
and it seemed like Microsoft had better infrastructure overall.

------
haunter
Unfortunately Twitch is buffering for me all the time. 4K streaming on Mixer
was flawless, I can't even do 720p 60fps most of the time on Twitch :/

~~~
lwansbrough
Could be throttling. Have you tried watching through a VPN?

~~~
haunter
Yeah VPN works perfectly but I'm not a big fan of it I have to use it all the
time just to watch Twitch

~~~
user5994461
Can you drop the 60FPS to 30FPS ? That would cut the bandwidth requirement in
half.

~~~
haunter
Oh I'm talking about watching not streaming

non affilite/non partnered streamers don't have quality selection and if they
stream 720p 60fps I have to watch that.

I honestly don't even know what's the problem because I can even stream on
Twitch easily pretty much up to 10000kbps. But once I start watching almost
any stream heavy buffering starts.

~~~
k12sosse
Twitch caps the bitrate at 6k ¹

[1] [https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/guide-to-broadcast-
health-a...](https://help.twitch.tv/s/article/guide-to-broadcast-health-and-
using-twitch-inspector?language=en_US#HowtoSetaProperBitrate)

~~~
sawjet
Big streamers are streaming at closer to 8k. You can see it in twitch stats
window live.

I'm pretty sure they will bend the rules if you all nicely and generate enough
revenue, or you have friends that work at twitch.

------
KaoruAoiShiho
I thought Mixer would've been a home run if they integrate it into the new
xbox's dashboard. Guess it's company infighting that killed it.

------
throw_m239339
How long did Mixer exist again? For the people here who think GitHub is too
big too fail under Microsoft… and let's not forget that MS used to have its
own code repository website before shutting it down...

------
alexbanks
Happy that Shroud and Ninja get to come back to Twitch

------
remir
I never heard of Facebook Gaming. Is it a serious competitor to Twitch?

------
esturk
I'll give credit to Mixer for 1 thing they did do well, you will only expect
proper gaming channels.

Nowadays, Twitch is filled with "Just Chatting" which you have people doing
illegal watch parties of copyrighted content or girls showing just enough skin
to not get banned. Twitch is slowly becoming a degenerate platform.

~~~
spoopyskelly
> Twitch is slowly becoming a degenerate platform.

Are you 80?

~~~
thejynxed
No, but I can fully understand their viewpoint, especially if they have kids
to monitor. People forget part of the reason YT has been cracking down heavily
on the behavior and content within streams and static video is complaints from
parents and politicians, not just advertisers or nebulous "social justice"
groups. What we may see as perfectly acceptable is not the same as the parents
of a young teenager trying to prevent their kid getting bombed with Rule 34
content because they were suggested a Fortnite stream.

