

LadyCoders 2012 -- a Kickstarter project to help more women in software - jacques_chester
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/166494057/ladycoders-get-hired-seattle-2012

======
kondro
Sigh… if women wanted to be developers they would become developers.

Almost all the successful developers I know started creating software (or at
least wanted to make computers do things that they weren't immediately able to
do) at a young age. Even you believe it is an issue (and I don't know why it
is necessary that 50% of all developers need to be women), this isn't a
problem you can fix by talking to a bunch of adults about how to get a career
in IT.

Now, part of a lack of women in IT could have to do with gender stereotyping
at a young age, but I do not believe that IT is generally negative towards
women any more than HR/marketing is negative towards men.

PRO TIP: If you are told you're a crap developer, it's not because you're a
woman, it's because you're a crap developer. If you think you deserve some
type of different treatment because of your genitalia, you're part of the
problem.

~~~
tanglisha
Disclaimer: I'm one of the people on this project.

The point of this project is not to convince women to go into tech, that is
completely out of scope. The point is to help women that are qualified but
don't interview well or know how to deal with some of the issues unique to
women that either raise eyebrows or can cause confusion in an interview.

The women we're targeting include recent graduates, those who left the field
for a few months or years to have babies or take care of sick family members,
and women who may have been driven out of other positions by sexual harassment
(nobody wants a troublemaker, and they _do_ always ask why you left your
previous position).

~~~
kondro
The trouble is, none of this (with the exception of childbirth, and there are
plenty of stay-at-home Dads) is gender-specific.

Unfortunately, all continuing to enforce how _special_ women are (either
positively or negatively, in this case) is to keep women thinking they need
specialised tools to succeed.

As a man, no one taught me how to interview well, or come back to the
workforce after taking an extended break to care for someone else, or to be
driven out of a position due to bullying (much more common than sexual
harassment because it is much subtler). Why do you feel the need to single-out
women for such general issues?

~~~
tanglisha
Women and men are raised differently. Things that come natural to you, having
been raised male, do not come naturally to a large number of women. Examples
include how to make eye contact in an interview and how to shake hands
properly. It is very common for women to be raised with an attitude of quietly
waiting to be noticed, rather than pointing out their good traits and skills.
This can leave them a bit lost when it comes to an interview, which is
essentially the time to brag.

Aside from childbirth itself, women are far more likely to be single parents
than men are, and are normally the ones to stay home with sick children,
especially when there is a long-term disease involved.

Many women end up dealing with multiple name changes, across degrees and
sometimes projects.

Of course not all women lack these skills, we would never pretend that to be
the case. But the ones that do are at a distinct disadvantage, and there are
more of them out there than you realize.

Who would you turn to if you didn't even know that your handshake felt like a
dead fish and you never once made eye contact with the hiring manager? That
kind of feedback doesn't exist after interviews.

~~~
kondro
For each of these issues I can come up with a counter-point but it won't
really solve anything.

I agree that having this information available is a positive thing.

Limiting it to either women, or even women in IT seems to be part of the
problem (not the solution), in my opinion. By all means, market a generic
series at women who may be having these problems, but I fail to see how
limiting the audience to ONLY women stands up for equality.

~~~
jacques_chester
Again, let me see if I have you right.

A project launched by women, aimed at women, _because_ women are an observable
rarity in our industry ... is against equality.

This isn't affirmative action. It's not a hiring policy. It's a private sector
effort by interested individuals who want to help others like them.

~~~
kondro
In my experience, it always pays to substitute the subject to the broader
version when determining if something is discriminatory.

How does this project sound?

"A project [to empower men], launched by men, aimed at men, because men are an
observable majority in our industry."

~~~
jacques_chester
> In my experience, it always pays to substitute the subject to the broader
> version when determining if something is discriminatory.

How does that follow? I'd genuinely like to know your reasoning.

~~~
kondro
I come from a minority myself (gay from the ironically named Queensland) and
find people say the stupidest things that, if modified as suggested, they
would be embarrassed to say about themselves.

~~~
jacques_chester
Gay in Queensland is a tough ask, depending on how far north you are.

But I'm still not following.

How does substituting in "majority" for "minority" undermine the case for the
minority?

------
jacques_chester
The two things I like about this project are

1\. It's specific. They're not over-promising with a really cool video. They
already have a plan and know the costs in considerable detail.

I see an awful lot of Kickstarter projects which are basically link bait
getting heavily funded, then discovering that they had no idea how hard Shiny
Thing X would actually turn out to be.

2\. We all know that our industry's ratios are unhealthy, and it's a self-
sustaining loop. It's starving the industry of talent and leads to an insular,
narrow culture that's frankly holding us back from being taken more seriously
as a profession.

While this project won't wave the magic wand on the whole industry and deliver
rainbows and puppies, it identifies a particular high-leverage point that can
be improved almost immediately.

I think this is one of the better kickstarter projects I've seen in a while.

