
The Touchscreen Infotainment Systems in New Cars Are a Distracting Mess - NN88
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a26016348/car-infotainment-distraction/
======
userbinator
I wonder if there will be a resurgence of "dumb" cars once people get tired of
and become more aware of the disadvantages of these overly-complex systems,
like has happened with phones; IMHO one of the very few things a touchscreen
is useful for in a car is a GPS, because that's a relatively complex system
which can't really be simplified to physical controls. Everything else should
really be knobs and switches. How much of a market would there be for a "dumb
EV", basically the exact opposite of a Tesla but still electric, with only the
bare minimum of electronics and software? Imagine a car whose interior looks
like one from the late 70s/early 80s, with all analogue controls and
indicators, except that it's actually an EV.

The other big disadvantage is the failure mode: if the screen fails, a whole
set of functionality becomes inaccessible, whereas a single switch failure
won't affect any others.

~~~
sadness2
I would be willing to pay a premium for a car with no integrated circuits.

~~~
ken
New cars in the USA (and many other countries) are required to have safety
features like antilock brakes, electronic stability control, tire pressure
monitoring, and backup cameras. Autonomous emergency braking looks like it
will be next.

It seems like it would be exceedingly difficult (and/or expensive) to build a
legal mass-produced car which has all of these safety features, using no ICs.

~~~
Theodores
Early ABS implementations were mechanical. Ball bearings were involved, can't
remember what else, but it was 50-50 what would be the winning the market.

Saloons of yesteryear were possible to park without backup cameras, driving
instructors taught you how to look behind through the back window and you
could see out the back then if the kids ducked down. It was easy for them to
do so as they had no safety belts.

I think no ICs is a bit silly. However, I would like a car that was simplified
in the extreme. This does not mean a 1990's or a 1970's car but something more
ambitious. The simplifications I want to see are things like parts that can be
swapped to left/right or front/rear. So one seat design, one bumper design,
one indicator light design, one side mirror design and so on. Also I would
want a carbon fibre shell that has no crumple zones, instead the seats slide
forward/back to absorb the energy.

The thing would have to be fully EV with no frunk/boot, just have 3-4 foot of
legroom in the back and more like a VW van of old with a cab forward design
that is entered like a cockpit, so just one side door each side to the central
area.

~~~
kalleboo
> _It was easy for them to do so as they had no safety belts_

It was also easier before increased crash safety requirements caused the C
pillars to grow massively in size, robbing us of rear window size

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bretthopper
The new 2019 Mazda3 has inset the screen and pushed it further back so you
can't touch it and it's not even a touchscreen. I've been researching the car
and it comes up in every review. The reaction seems pretty split on it so far
even though everyone knows why Mazda has done it (less distraction, safer).
It's a pretty bold move considering most other cars and touch and even going
with bigger Tesla-style screens.

[https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-
pur...](https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1121372_why-mazda-is-purging-
touchscreens-from-its-vehicles)

~~~
max76
I have a few years older model Mazda 3 that has a similar system, although
much less stylish. I like it for two reasons. I don't glance down when
adjusting the radio or checking GPS and my eyes stay more or less on the road.
The knob in the center console is a very intuitive control system that doesn't
require very much attention or reaching to operate. The whole system is
clearly designed to offer the full functionality of Android Auto or Apple Car
while minimizing the possibilities distraction.

------
fright
I've always been at a complete loss as to why and how we ended up with the
archaic and clunky in-car systems we have today.

If you look at a smartphone from 5 years ago and a vehicle from 5 years ago,
the capability of the phone is going to dwarf that of the in-car infotainment
system. In all honestly, that 5 year old phone will likely out perform most of
the infotainment systems in vehicles rolling off the assembly line right now.
I don't even want to think what consumers are being charged on a line item
basis for the outdated hardware in vehicles.

I still can't figure out why car companies are even attempting to build these
systems themselves (besides profit, I suppose). Pretty much every American has
a phone in their pocket that is much more capable than any infotainment
system, and it specializes in the things we mainly want from an infotainment
system (music, maps/gps, txt, calls).

Wouldn't it be so much better if vehicles just had a barebones screen in the
dash with a connector for smartphones to power the system? You could even have
the screen size mirror the resolution of the phone so it's just scaled up and
rotated. Doesn't seem like much else would have to be done.

I'm sure I'm over simplifying things to some extent, but it still seems like a
setup like this would be much easier to produce and much better to use than
anything coming from car companies who are typically pretty terrible at
software and UX design.

*of course not all vehicles are for Americans and not everyone has a smartphone.

~~~
judge2020
A big reason is the backup camera requirement[0]. Why just have a screen for
the backup camera when it's marginal to add on the other features.

0:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_camera#Mandates](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_camera#Mandates)

~~~
fright
I wasn't thinking about the cameras I guess.

Still seems like it would be better to just include what's required and then
let a phone handle the software.

~~~
Fins
That's all nice and well, as long as you are in cell tower range. I drove mine
cross-country through places where you get 0 cell coverage. Having a
navigation system that actually works is pretty nice.

~~~
wvenable
Navigation on a phone doesn't require cell coverage -- it works the same as
your car, just download the map you need.

~~~
Fins
That at the very least presumes that you remember to do that in advance. And
that this functionality is actually available to do. Last time I tried, e.g.
Google Maps would not download offline maps in some countries.

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sl1ck731
I have an Alfa Giulia and the knobs are amazing. It is always in reach of my
hand since they are located right in front of the gear shifter and flipping
through the menus became intuitive after a couple hours. No fingerprints is an
added bonus. I don't have the nav option, so inputting addresses or other long
things might be cumbersome (but likely unnecessary with Android Auto or the
Apple version).

Image of the controls for those curious: [https://car-
images.bauersecure.com/pagefiles/85459/alfa_rome...](https://car-
images.bauersecure.com/pagefiles/85459/alfa_romeo_stelvio_porsche_macan_06.jpg)

The large round dial is used for most of the menu navigation. The small one to
the right is for changing radio station/tracks and volume.

By comparison, my fiances Jetta's touch screen was pretty cool when we first
got it. But then noticing how unresponsive it was, misclicking, and dirty it
gets I don't think I will go for a touch screen again personally.

~~~
HiroshiSan
Not to mention the Giulia is gorgeous.

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micheljansen
I spent a year researching ways for making touch screen interfaces usable
without demanding visual attention (in a medical context, almost as fun). It’s
really really hard to beat tactile, physical knobs and switches. Tesla can do
way better than they are doing. Operating the radio etc. on their touch screen
is virtually impossible without taking your eyes off the road for dangerous
amounts of time. Despite knowing this, I still ordered a Model 3.

~~~
BlackRing
I'd like to mod my Tesla Model 3 to remove that huge screen and put the screen
on the dashboard in a smaller screen behind the steering wheel, and the
controls on the steering wheel itself. Maybe even with a reflective visual off
the windshield close to the dashboard so the driver doesn't have to take their
eyes off the road.

The research for this hasn't yielded much since I can't alter the UI at all.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
your desired request for screen behind the wheel is available of course. This
is known as the model s.

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akeck
Having dealt with various tech distractions in cars since before the
introduction of cell phones, I don't see how the NTSB hasn't banned touch
screens. My older car has a standard radio (dials and buttons), and I _still_
almost rear-ended someone while changing radio stations after a long day.

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peterlk
I too have a huge problem with touch screens in cars. Having tactile knobs
means I can find things on the dash without taking my eyes off the road. The
thing that I think most of the comments are missing is the thing that powers
all tech... Ads

There is currently a push behind the scenes to own the in-car advertising
system. This is a reason why Google is making a play for an automobile OS [0].

I desperately hope that car manufacturers return to physical buttons, but in-
car ads are offer huge potential financial upside. You could sell a car at a
loss to consumers and still come out ahead...

[0] [https://www.android.com/auto/](https://www.android.com/auto/)

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sizzle
I want to just speak to the car like I do with Alexa or Google Assistant and
have it work the same in the car and in the house. How hard is this to
accomplish in 2019?

Me: (Alexa/Okay Google/hey Siri) - set car temperature to 70 degrees...

Car: Okay, temperature is set to 70 degrees

No buttons, no unintuitive touchscreens, no taking eyes off road, no taking
hands off steering wheel, just simply getting what you ask for. This
technology is baked into phones already so this isn't exactly rocket science
or some futuristic sci-fi technology, car manufacturers need to get with the
21st century and allow this level of integrations.

Anyone know why it's taking so long to get this functionality?

~~~
sangnoir
> Me: (Alexa/Okay Google/hey Siri) - set car temperature to 70 degrees...

>Car: Okay, temperature is set to 70 degrees

You might want to pre-order the upcoming Volvo Polestar 2, as it has Android
Automotive[1] (not to be confused[2] with "Android Auto"!) which has this
functionality

1\. [https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/the-volvo-
polestar-2...](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/02/the-volvo-
polestar-2-is-the-first-google-android-car/)

2\. Whoever named this project was probably in the same role at Microsoft in
the '90s

~~~
sizzle
Really cool, thanks for sharing!

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lambdasquirrel
Am I using the same system that the reviewers are using? These kinds of
assessments are a bit of a red herring. If you have to use the touchscreen
you’ve already lost. But when I drove a rental car recently, CarPlay+Siri
pretty much took care of it all for me, including responding to a text while I
was driving.

To my understanding, Android Auto may even be better because of Google’s
superior voice recognition. The touchscreen is there to convey more
information, not to be used as a means of control.

------
ChikkaChiChi
All I want is a button easily available from my steering wheel to talk to the
mobile assistant I'm connected to over Bluetooth. I know it's far too much to
ask of any company to support both Android and Apple, so this is my
compromise.

Tesla's infotainment isn't horrible, but I should be able to use voice to do
all the things they have shifted into a non-tactile interface.

~~~
matthewmcg
We installed the CarPlay retrofit for our recent model Mazda CX-5 and it does
exactly this. The CarPlay interface completely takes over the vehicle
interface and the buttons are mapped in a way that makes sense: home takes you
to the home screen/springboard, nav opens Apple Maps or whatever navigation
application is currently running, and music opens whatever media application
was last selected. Most importantly the voice assistant button on the steering
wheel triggers Siri.

Best $250 I’ve ever spent and the utility of this keeps improving as more apps
add CarPlay support.

~~~
robbiep
I’ve done the same thing on my 3 and agree. Also quite like using the knob to
select compared to touching

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nabla9
And everyone seems to use blue colors in car displays. They leave color
aftereffects when you look displays and then quickly trough windshield.
Especially in the dark.

~~~
xgulfie
Yes, red is much better at night (IIRC it doesn't dilate your pupils as much).
But blue is the trendier color for lighting, and I don't suspect many people
take test-drives at night.

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appleflaxen
how practical is a heads-up display?

that's what I want for ease of use, safety, aesthetics.

~~~
kelp
I just got a 2019 Volvo V60 and it has a HUD. It’s somewhat customizable, and
displays the current speed limit, your speed, an optional warning if you’re
following too close, and even GPS nav instructions. Pretty nice.

The car does also have a huge distracting touch screen.

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zaroth
There are obviously a hundred ways to make a touchscreen terrible. Laggy,
distracting, too small touch points, bad touch sensitivity, low contrast,
overly nested menus, etc.

But “haptic feedback” isn’t a panacea and there are plenty of ways to make
buttons that you still have to look at to use effectively.

My old 2006 Infiniti G35 which I had for 12 years, I would still have to look
to turn on the front/rear defogger. Or even to adjust fan speed. The buttons
were arranged in a flat row and there was no way to distinguish one from the
adjacent without looking. Even with more depth you would still glance over to
find your target and confirm the state change.

The large touchscreen in my TM3 makes navigation an absolute joy. When I’m at
a complex intersection, pinch to zoom in and I can easily see at a glance what
to do. This beats squinting at an iPhone by a massive margin. I _never_
thought in-car GPS made any sense at all and activately hated the systems I
had seen in Audis and Mercedes. Dialing in destinations was a huge pain and
the screens were small and non-interactive making the system worse than a
phone-in-hand.

So it’s obvious to me that large touch-screen interfaces _can be_ joyful and
safe, and even enhance safety in some cases.

There are also two massive benefits which most articles miss or just gloss
over, and that is upgradability, and dynamic state.

My TM3 shipped without blind spot warning, or lane departure warning, or
Navigate in Autopilot, or a dashcam, or Sentry Mode, and dozens of other
features that have since been added.

Legacy manufacturers want to sell you a new car every time they add a new
feature. Knobs are great for this because it’s pretty hard to shoehorn a new
feature into an existing hard-labeled set of knobs. A touch interface—done
right—can evolve over time to support dozens of new features which improve the
driving experience.

A car that gets better (and faster, and longer range) every month is _no small
wonder_. Rather I think it’s the bane of the legacy model and the old guard is
terrified by it, because their entire ecosystem isn’t set up for it.

The second key advantage is dynamic state — or rather, the idea that the
system state can change independently from the knob. Now it is possible to
design certain types of knobs and switches which can accommodate this type of
state change, but there is a _whole host_ of knob and switch designs which are
outright excluded if you want to support that case without adding a motor to
physically move the knob/switch (which would be ridiculous). And these
“stateless” knobs and switches tend to be the ones which provide significantly
less feedback and are more likely to need to be looked at to be manipulated /
confirm the state change.

Of course it’s important to note that it’s not all or nothing. The reality is
that knobs on or right around the steering wheel will _always_ have a place
for activating the most common features. Several articles miss, for example,
that TM3 does have a button to activate the wipers. The screen then
automatically shows the interval status (which on mine is always just ‘Auto’)

And the most useful button is the one you can eliminate completely by
automating it out of existence. Like that complex multi-position dial so many
cars have to the left of the steering wheel to configure the headlights. I see
cars all the time driving at night with the switch inadvertently set to
daytime running mode. There’s no dial in the TM3, because the lights just
always do the right thing.

~~~
toast0
> There’s no dial in the TM3, because the lights just always do the right
> thing.

Do they go into parking lights only as requested by signs when driving onto
the washington stste ferries? Or do they shine the bright headlights at the
ferry workers?

~~~
chachachoney
To your point, do they also turn on in broad daylight when passing roadwork on
the interstate, as is required by law in some states?

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inflatableDodo
Given that aesthetic experience is something the automotive industry actually
prioritises, I supect the security problems with these things is going to be
much worse than the usability.

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blueboo
I’ve never understood why all the centre-dash controls have, since time
immemorial, been angled away from the driver.

Radio control is one plausible compromise but defroster? Navigation?

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netsharc
Seems to be a lot of words for what we know already: knobs and switches good,
touchscreen bad.

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rkagerer
As an example of exactly the sort of broken design thinking that will make
cars unsafe, I'd like to repeat a comment I made in 2017:

In one of the talks at Google I/O last year a VP from Audi (or Volvo?) spoke
in a thick and lofty German accent about how "ve haf completely oferhauled ze
driver exzperienze". He played a sexy video clip showcasing their new Android
infotainment system (something like
[https://youtu.be/h_7_fKJ0PNs](https://youtu.be/h_7_fKJ0PNs)), and the first
thing I noticed is how they'd taken away my traditional temperature knobs and
replaced them with digital touchscreen ones. They looked just like physical
ones, and were in the exact same place you would expect
([https://9to5google.com/2017/05/15/android-cars-
audi/](https://9to5google.com/2017/05/15/android-cars-audi/)). So, I've gained
absolutely nothing, and now I have to take my eyes off the road and look down
at the stupid console just to change the temperature.

TLDR: Tacticle feedback is a Good Thing(tm) and designers should cultivate -
not fight - muscle memory.

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SN76477
bring back tactile interfaces please

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FussyZeus
CarPlay is excellently done. The UI is consistent and sensible, and the
devices usually respond quickly. However the problems start when the car
companies have built their own UI around or over top of CarPlay, and those UIs
are often slow to respond, often use resistive touch screens which are
difficult to use, and the UI conventions in a Jeep, in a Ford, in a Cadillac
might as well exist in different universes. There is no standardization, and
therefore no way to get truly comfortable.

I've used CarPlay on several vehicles and it's not distracting at all, because
I know exactly where everything is, and I can get to it and get what done I
need to rapidly and with precision. The issues come when I have to use the
rest of the system, which is a complete crapshoot in terms of where to find
things like climate controls and adjustments to be made to the car.

And for God's sakes, dump those resistive touch screens in the trash.

~~~
NN88
Theres spy shots that the new S Class will be all touch screens.
[https://www.motor1.com/news/337416/2021-mercedes-s-class-
spi...](https://www.motor1.com/news/337416/2021-mercedes-s-class-spied/)

What the hell are people thinking?

The range rovers, Porsche's, and Audis are going that way too.

How can this be remotely positive?

Its like these cars are made for leasing, ONLY. They can't be thinking about
long term reliability.

~~~
VectorLock
Automakers seem to be in love with leases and they're pushing them hard, so I
can see them prioritizing features that makes leasing more attractive.

~~~
delfinom
Leases are a giant unsustainable bubble.

~~~
VectorLock
There has been some speculation that automakers are going to be left holding
the bag but it seems they don't share that fear.

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whenchamenia
Tactile switches should be mandatory.

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kensai
I wonder if Tesla's silly games will be banned anytime soon.

~~~
jm4
The one car that actually gets software right?

~~~
Fins
Tesla fanboys can be quite annoying, true, but I don't think actively killing
them is a "right thing".

