
Large ancient-DNA study uncovers population that moved westwards 4,500 years ago - sveme
http://www.nature.com/news/european-languages-linked-to-migration-from-the-east-1.16919
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pluma
That headline in itself is such a non-story. What did you think why the
language most European languages evolved from is called Proto-Indo-European?
Language maps for Europe have been showing a historic East-West migration for
ages.

The actual news story seems to be that we've finally found DNA evidence that
backs up the archaeological and linguistic indicators we've already had. The
rest is just providing context while somehow managing to present the concept
itself as novel (which it isn't).

This is akin to starting a story about cosmic background radiation being
discovered with the headline "Origins of the universe linked to rapid initial
expansion". Yes, the discovery itself is newsworthy, but the headline would
lead you to believe that the theory itself is somehow novel or unexpected.

~~~
mohawk
The DNA analysis not only backs up the evidence, but it's is a different kind
of evidence. Language or pottery styles could theoretically be transmitted
without there being a trace in people's genomes. Memes vs genes if you will.

~~~
weland
Except memes travel more or less instantaneously now, whereas back then, the
only way culture and civilization elements traveled was along with people.

~~~
Someone
But a wave can get transmitted without any 'particle' moving any significant
distance.

With people walking a few hours between villages, ideas could theoretically
spread at >10 kilometers a day. At 100 walking days a year, that's Rome to
Paris in a year, easily. In practice, transmission speed would be way lower,
but given a few millennia, a lot is possible.

And, by the way, that applies to genes, too. There is no need for statistical
east-west drift of humans for genes to spread from Asia to Europe. All you
need is (way) more people in Asia than in Europe, and people moving a few km
in random directions between birth and adulthood (oceans limiting such
movements would help, too, but aren't even necessary)

~~~
weland
> With people walking a few hours between villages, ideas could theoretically
> spread at >10 kilometers a day.

You needed a lot more than a few hours to walk between the villages in the
Eurasian steppes, mostly because there were no villages there.

Population density back then wasn't what it is now.

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jqm
I think it's widely believed that Southern Ukraine was the origin of the proto
Indo-Europeans who moved both West and East.

I always found the Black Sea Deluge theory interesting....

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis)

There is some speculation that this flooding event was part of the impetus for
the initial dispersion of the Indo-European from the area. In the Bible, it is
claimed for instance that after the flood, the ark came to rest on the
mountains of Ararat, (south of the Black Sea in modern Turkey). Maybe this
story and other flood myths (like Gilgamesh) were been carried by refuges from
the event into their new homelands....

It would be extremely interesting to go back in time and watch these events
unfold in fast forward.

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Xophmeister
Apologies for my non-comment, but when I was studying linguistics, I suggested
this very thing, but was unfortunately misunderstood in meaning that I thought
there was a genetic component to specific languages. That's obviously bogus
and this -- studying migrations, which include culture _and_ language, by
tracking genomes -- is ample vindication of what I actually meant.

