
This DX7 Cartridge Does Not Exist - processing
https://www.thisdx7cartdoesnotexist.com/
======
yowlingcat
First of all, fantastic tool.

Second of all, to folks that are trying to figure out how to give this a go:
Open up your favorite DAW (try out Reaper[1] if you don't have one yet),
download an install the fantastic open source DX7 emulator plugin Dexed VST
plugin [2] and have fun.

In my opinion, FM synthesis is one of the finest things in life I've ever
experienced. I never understood the whole culture around an emotional
attachment to one's guitar before I realized how closely I could bond with my
FM synthesis instruments. It was about five years ago when it started to feel
a bit more like an extension of my brain and less like a tool. Now, I've
always been an FM8 person myself because of the envelopes, but obviously the
DX7 shaped synthesizers have the superior library.

I'm always overjoyed to see projects that get more folks into the joy of music
with FM synthesis.

[1] [https://www.reaper.fm/](https://www.reaper.fm/)

[2] [https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/](https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/)

~~~
StavrosK
Any instructions for Linux? Dexed won't run there.

~~~
motogpjimbo
It's possible to build it for Linux from source:

[https://github.com/asb2m10/dexed/wiki/Linux-
Builds](https://github.com/asb2m10/dexed/wiki/Linux-Builds)

------
blendergeek
Can someone give me a short explanation as to what this is and why it is
significant?

It looks quite interesting. I am basically looking for the ELI5 because I have
never heard of a DX7 before and I don't know what the file that I was prompted
to download was about.

~~~
satori99
It appears to generate ROM (cartridge) images, which I'm guessing are sound
patches, for a vintage Yamaha FM synthesizer -- A model which was extremely
popular and ubiquitous a few decades ago.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_DX7)

~~~
mortenjorck
The file format that it downloads (.syx) is a MIDI sysex or system-exclusive
message file ([https://www.midi.org/specifications-
old/item/table-4-univers...](https://www.midi.org/specifications-
old/item/table-4-universal-system-exclusive-messages)). These are basically
scripts of MIDI instructions that exist outside the regular note on-off
messages, and can be used for a variety of things, in this case programming a
patch in the DX7’s synthesis engine.

------
Rodeoclash
This is very cool, well done!

I wonder how far we are away from the following:

1\. Being able to use a GAN to be able to give a synth an input sound (i.e. a
reece sound from a dnb track) and have it generate a patch that matches it.

2\. Being able to do 1 but apply it to a whole Ableton project. The
interesting thing about Ableton is that they're actually XML files under the
covers.

Even if you couldn't get close, it would be fascinating to see how an AI would
design synth patches for subtractive synths.

~~~
raphlinus
There is a long tradition of using AI and AI-ish techniques to try to generate
FM synthesis patches, for example [1] genetic algorithms (1993) to [2] neural
networks (2017). See the "previous work" section in the latter paper for more
references.

Disclosure: I wrote the original sound engine in Dexed. I love seeing stuff
like this!

[1]:
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/3680541?seq=1](https://www.jstor.org/stable/3680541?seq=1)
[2]:
[http://research.gold.ac.uk/22516/1/myk_lf_vsti_programming.p...](http://research.gold.ac.uk/22516/1/myk_lf_vsti_programming.pdf)

~~~
leonfedden
Hey dexed is awesome! I was the coauthor for [2], it for was my 3rd year
undergraduate dissertation. A lot of the work went into creating a Python VST
host capable of generating huge datasets of random patches.

I'm looking at some of the fancy new ML tricks that have come out since that
paper was wrote and have been thinking there would be significant improvements
over the LSTM we used.

~~~
raphlinus
Nice! I imagine with the advances in ML it would be possible to do really
impressive things. I hope you or someone else takes this up.

Also, this is really a reason to love Hacker News. Sometimes I question why I
spend so much time here, this is not one of those times :)

------
teilo
I have KQ Dixie on this iPad Pro that I'm presently on. The sysex files
generated by this website opened up directly into it, and it worked
brilliantly. This is so cool. There's a lot of duds, but it also generates
some very usable patches.

I actually have a DX7 sitting on my desk at work, although I only use it as a
MIDI keyboard because I love the keybed. Dexed or Arturia is so much easier to
program, and 100% the same audio, so I have no reason to mess around
programming the real thing. When I did play it directly, I programmed it in
Dexed anyway.

~~~
nobleach
I've owned multiple DX-7s (only first gen... I've always wanted to buy a
DX-7IIfd). While I liked the feel of the keys, I couldn't get passed the MIDI
implementation not sending the full 0-127 velocity. (Yamaha implemented a 0 to
100 range because the MIDI spec wasn't complete at the time of production).
When I'm actually using it as just a keyboard to play, it doesn't seem to
matter... it's only when I'm using a different sound source.

~~~
jacquesm
You can patch that if you want, the ROM image is available and there are
reasonably accurate disassemblies, enough to figure out where that bit of code
lives so you can scale it. You won't be able to fix it at the source (the DX7
contains _two_ processors, the other one is mask programmable), but you can
simply scale the 0...100 values to become 0...127.

------
theduro
Just loaded mine into my Arturia DX7 VST, and its rad. Threw some juicy reverb
after it, and found a couple patches in my pack that will defintely be putting
into a track.

------
inetsee
Years ago I had a TX81Z synthesizer unit. It was a rack mount unit (not a
keyboard synthesizer; you had to use it with a midi keyboard). It was also an
FM synthesizer with a fundamental difference; the DX7 used sine waves
modulating each other to produce the sounds, and the TX81Z let you do the
frequency modulation with sine waves, or triangle waves, or square waves, or
pulse waves. You basically had an order of magnitude more flexibility in
creating sounds, and an order of magnitude more difficulty. Some people were
able to create some really interesting patches, but I never got good enough to
create anything remotely interesting.

~~~
parenthesis
The TX81Z only has 4 operators, versus 6 on the DX7, but, on the other hand,
yes, not just sine waves.

Also, it had the "LatelyBass" preset, used on a huge number of records in the
80s and 90s.

------
s_m
I downloaded a .syx and loaded it into Dexed. About half the patches don't
make any sound, but the ones that remain are pretty good. Various classic FM
sounds in the Sonic the Hedgehog vein.

------
hondadriver
Reminds me of the Yanaha CX5 MSX computer
[https://www.msx.org/wiki/Yamaha_CX5](https://www.msx.org/wiki/Yamaha_CX5)

------
jacquesm
Very neat. I refurbish/repair DX7's as a hobby, and it is always surprising to
me how much life there is still left in that synth. There is a whole eco-
system around them and lots of people still want the actual thing to play on.
They're also built like tanks which is one reason they are still so much in
use today.

~~~
teilo
Just curious, since you mentioned this: where do you get your up-stop felt?

~~~
jacquesm
Piano restauration parts supplier in Amsterdam.

------
severak_cz
This is ultimate vaporwave thing.

It needs just two things:

1) some sanity checking on presets (to drop not working sounds) 2) javascript
player on the page (there is web port of DEXED[1])

[1] -
[https://www.webaudiomodules.org/wamsynths/dexed](https://www.webaudiomodules.org/wamsynths/dexed)

------
aasasd
I sorta wonder if this can be generalized to, say, some number of oscillators
(i.e. if there's three in the synth then extra three in the model are
considered disabled and we have a subspace of parameters), and to a bunch of
common parameters like wave shapes, ADSR, the algo, the LFO. Because I noticed
DX7 patches available on the web, but my particular DAW ain't got six
oscillators and I can't even imagine what to do with that many of them.

(Though personally I don't believe that we should accelerate the exhaustive
search on the musical space, but the geek in me can't help pondering about
this.)

------
parenthesis
I really want to like Dexed (I love FM synthesis). But (I'm using it on a Mac,
if that makes any difference):

• After clicking on a knob, I should then be able to use the up and down arrow
keys to move the value up and down.

• I should be able to type in the numeric value I want a selected parameter to
be.

If the interface had these two features, it would be perfect. Without them,
for me, it is unusable for programming sounds.

------
wegs
Well, I have to say:

(1) This looks interesting. I had no idea any of this existed.

(2) For the level of awesome, this is the worst-documented ecosystem I've
stepped into in a long while. I hope some random user volunteers to make
really nice documentation at some point. This could go from awesome to a lot
awesomer.

I looked for MIDI synthesizer a while back, and never ran into dexed. I
suspect I'll have a lot of fun with this at some point.

~~~
nintoracaudio
For (2), yea definitely threw this all together a little too quickly. I have
updated the README in
[https://github.com/Nintorac/NeuralDX7](https://github.com/Nintorac/NeuralDX7)
to give a little explanation of the specific code used for this site.

Hope that helps and feel free to get in contact
info@thisdx7cartdoesnotexist.com or create an issue if I can help to make
anything clearer

~~~
wegs
Nah.

(1) For open source, out early is better than out later. v0 (or v1 or where
ever you start numbering) shouldn't be perfect. If it's perfect, you're
sharing too late.

(2) All this is volunteer work and a gift to the community. It's a fallacy to
think the person who writes the code is also responsible for doing everything
else. Some people code well. Others write well. Others do both well. That's
okay.

(3) My comment was on the dexed ecosystem; not just on this piece

(4) All that said, what would be awesome is if

\- There were sample audio files we could listen to. Ideally, these would be
for the generated patches, but even if there was just a half-dozen example WAV
or MP3 files.

\- If the README file on github had a link to the web page, or at the very
least, if the current text (thisdx7cartdoesnotexit.com) said "exist" at the
end instead of "exit"

------
harritaylor
Awesome! I tried to do this for my final year project back in 2018 but failed
miserably. To the author: well done, this is really cool!

------
t-writescode
It .. asks me to download something when I click generate.

Is that supposed to happen?

Running: Firefox: 76.0.1 (64 bit)

I thought it was going to be a picture of the cartridge.

~~~
Reelin
Not a picture, it's an actual cartridge ROM image for use with a DX7
synthesizer!

------
sheinsheish
Cool idea ! Will definitely test the results , thanks a lot ! Here’s something
similar :
[https://u-he.com/products/protoverb/](https://u-he.com/products/protoverb/)

------
timc3
Really works well. Downloaded the SysEx imported into NI's FM8 and some of the
sounds are extremely usable as the basis for some sound design.

You milage may vary if you are after some traditional sounds though - I am
definitely not.

------
rcarmo
This is so cool. I recently got myself a Reface DX to recapture the feel of
the original DX7 and have Dexed on my machines (including the iPad), so will
be having some fun over the next few evenings.

------
andoma
My dad bought a DX7 when I was a kid. This sure bring back some good memories!

------
rmelhem
wow really nice! will try it later. that topic made me join to do my first
comment on HN lol. I wonder if there are many music producers around here?
would be nice to exchange some ideas :)

------
12bits
absolutely love when hn has audio related content. Thank you for sharing this,
I will use this with dexed next time I'm horsing around with sound design.

------
tmountain
Really really cool. Can’t wait to try this out.

------
Halian
404

------
ebg13
> _Do you want to allow downloads on “www.thisdx7cartdoesnotexist.com”?_

Nope.

------
munsters
I had no idea what a DX7 cartridge was, but out of curiosity I clicked the
"Click here to generate" link. It immediately downloaded a file.

I'm sure you have no malicious intent here, but my immediate reaction was that
it's a virus or something bad. I immediately deleted the file. The experience
felt like one of those scammy popups that initiates a download.

You should really put a label or something to indicate to the user that
clicking the link is going to download something.

~~~
NikolaNovak
I think people are talking about "Click" differently.

\- There is a click on the link on this page that leads to the webpage.
Nothing is downloaded at this time.

\- There is a click on the target webpage "Click to generate cartridge". Those
who know what DX7 is, who are presumably a target audience, would understand
this will generate a file.

For those who do not know what DX7 is or what's happening, well... why are you
clicking in the first place - if you have no idea what'll happen, a file is a
legitimate possibility;) - but I think mostly it'll differ whether they have
"Always ask me where to download" (in which case it'll prompt for location),
or "Always download in default folder", in which case yes indeed it'll
download a file.

But at that point you've already clicked two times voluntarily on a strange
page whose provenance or purpose you don't know, AND you have enabled "Don't
ask me for downloads", AND you didn't bother to scroll down two millimeters
for explanation but just clicked on first thing that said click me, soooooo...
at _some_ point it's no longer author's responsibility and the cries lose
their credibility ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
munsters
"But at that point you've already clicked two times voluntarily on a strange
page whose provenance or purpose you don't know"

How many times have you clicked on an HN submission that you already knew 100%
about? This site is for people to showcase their projects, of course curious
visitors are expected to poke around.

This app looked like a single page - it's not at all obvious it's even
possible to scroll down. It resizes to the browser window so the FAQ is always
hidden unless you scroll. This is quite obviously based off "this face does
not exist", so its perfectly reasonable to expect it to play something in the
browser.

