
YC startup Slapvid does P2P video from a browser - jsjenkins168
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/06/25/slapvid-peer-to-peer-video-in-your-browser/
======
enriketuned
Personally I don't think that P2P video from a browser is probably the best
utilization of this technology. Someone mentioned that even the top videos on
Youtube only have 4-5 concurrent users. That alone generates a lot of
difficulty for that approach. I supppose that the distribution of traffic on
Youtube will have a rather fat long tail. Also from a user's point of view for
this approach to work it would require storing not only one video but many. I
don't see the point of using my diskspace and my bandwidth for Youtube. That's
different for Joost. They get users to download, install, and share the
bandwidth as they have more valuable less fat tail content to offer. What's
more if you are watching fullscreen you probably won't mind that Joost is
making use of your upstream. However if you interpret P2P in the browser as a
potential Web cache, and don't restrict yourself to the video approach there
are lots of interesting things one could do. You just have to look out for
Power-Law shaped traffic around big chunks of data. Maybe internet radio with
high quality streams where you could time-shift streams to make optimal usage
of the P2P approach. Or the distribution of software. Once you have several
millon users using your applet or whatever, you could become the next akamai.
To get there one probably would have to go to those guys where bandwidth
really hurts. Thinking of sites like the underdogs.com, shareware distributing
sites, web radio, etc ... . If you can make them happy by potentially saving
bandwidth, and the users are happier by potentially increasing download speed,
you might get those guys to ask user's on their web sites to download your
little thingy. I think there is room for a P2P based web cache, probably not
in distributing Youtube like videos. Perfecting the P2P part, and being able
to aquire a sufficient install base, a lot of opportunities might arise. Go
speed up the net ;-).

------
jsjenkins168
Looks like a cool solution to video bandwidth problems. I'd like to read more
about the technology behind it..

These guys should consider trying AIR or Silverlight rather than a Java applet
for a more transparent and lighter weight implementation. Java applets are
quickly going the way of the dinosaur..

~~~
staunch
My guess is they're using the applet to run the P2P program and the Flash
client to connect to various P2P "servers" over HTTP (or possibly) RTMP for
streaming.

I don't think you can bind to local ports and run servers inside AIR or
Silverlight, but you can in Java applets.

They could theoretically have 100k P2P Java applets running on "super node"
(high bandwidth) machines serving an audience of millions of leeching peers.
Hopefully they've realized this. It's probably the best way to mitigate the
applet problem: only require 10% of people to have it.

~~~
jsjenkins168
AIR actually has a full network API, Silverlight might too but I'm not sure.
So listening on a local port should still be possible. Just be mindful that
your protocol makes it through NAT ok.

Your distributed idea is cool, but I think the intended benefit here is to
avoid escalating hosting costs when having to do it all in-house. YouTube was
paying $1M per month in hosting fees pre-google acquisition.. ouch

------
mynameishere
I don't have anything against java applets, but I'd like to hear their
rationale for using them--pg is known to have publicly criticized java, after
all.

Applets only have one major problem, which is their iffy deployment process.
Once running, they're about as good as a desktop application.

------
sri
Wow: the mouse becomes the remote control!

That's the way i watch TV -- next, next, next ..., OK interesting but next, OK
i like...

This is way better that the Joost interface.... I just want a quick preview,
but a even quicker way to get to get to the next one...

~~~
sri
"This is way better that the Joost interface"

For when watching quick, short videos...

------
schoudha
Is the video currently being delivered using the P2P tech? The platform note
indicates that the P2P is still being tested.

Congrats on being techcrunched, I actually graduated about a month ago with a
couple of the founders.

------
Tichy
In theory P2P sounds like a nice idea, on the other hand, why bother, if other
services (YouTube) offer to host the video for free?

I mean what is the incentive for the user to run the P2P network?

------
staunch
It's genius they're using Flash to play it, but seriously crippled by
requiring the Java applet.

Very interesting work, I'll be watching those guys very closely.

~~~
gyro_robo
Using Flash to play video is _genius_? What?

~~~
staunch
Not by itself, but in combination with P2P. Yes.

~~~
gyro_robo
If they're using Java they could just as well use a Java video player. My
_guess_ is that it's closer to "off-the-shelf" for Flash, and the networking
stuff is closer to existing code in Java. I'm sure those parts'll all be
redone in Flash next.

~~~
staunch
A Java player would suck and a Flash client couldn't do what the Java piece
does.

~~~
gyro_robo
What can't Flash do?

~~~
staunch
I explained what I think they're doing in thread above:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30705>

~~~
gyro_robo
Hmm, apparently a missing listen() means they have to bring in an entire
second language and VM. I don't get why normal sockets are so anathema to web
purveyors.

