
Attorneys say Elizabeth Holmes isn’t paying them - ilamont
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/03/theranos-disgraced-founder-elizabeth-holmes-cant-pay-lawyers-lawyers-claim/
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hkmurakami
"Holmes — who dropped out of Stanford University at 19 to found Theranos — and
Balwani face maximum penalties of 20 years in prison and a $2.75 million fine,
plus possible restitution, the Department of Justice has said.

Members of her legal team in the criminal case did not respond to questions
about whether Holmes has been paying them."

Civil case lawyers not being paid. Criminal lawyers may be getting paid.
Priorities.

~~~
travisjungroth
You can’t get blood from a stone, but you can lock it up.

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DoreenMichele
_The lawyers are seeking approval from the court to stop representing Holmes._

Because they haven't been paid in a year and don't expect to ever see a dime,
given the state of her finances.

~~~
paxys
What law firm agrees to work for a _year_ without payment? Every one we have
ever worked with would have cut us off after like a week, or max a month.

Although I guess Elizabeth Holmes has swindled smarter people.

~~~
newguy1234
Its a resume builder to say the least to show that you've worked serious
cases.

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_iyig
What happens if the attorneys quit, and Holmes can't afford more private
lawyers? Would a public defender represent her? That'd be quite the case to
pull, I'd imagine. On cases where full teams of lawyers and paralegals are
needed, practically speaking, I'd be curious what sort of resources a public
defender might be afforded.

~~~
nradov
Public defenders don't represent defendants in civil cases. If Ms. Holmes can
no longer afford an attorney then she'll have to appear pro se (or find pro
bono representation).

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hliyan
Perhaps it is time that we permanently retire the misguided Silicon Valley
maxim "fake it till you make it". And along with that, maybe revisit the
wisdom of others such as "fail fast".

~~~
np_tedious
What's wrong with "fail fast"? An honest Theranos that failed far sooner
would've done little harm. "Fail fast" is about trying new things quickly and,
here's the key, getting out when they start looking bad.

~~~
hliyan
Nothing inherently. Except that most great discoveries/inventions were made by
people who were convinced about the fundamental validity of their idea and
persevered over many iterations (rather than pivoting). Consider how many
years the incandescent light bulb would have been delayed had Edison (or Swan
or whoever you want to credit) had failed fast with the filaments. To me,
fail-fast is a very VC-centric philosophy. It's perfectly valid if your end
goal is return on investment. But if your goal is to "build something",
perseverance is generally a better strategy.

~~~
np_tedious
> Consider how many years the incandescent light bulb would have been delayed
> had Edison (or Swan or whoever you want to credit) had failed fast with the
> filaments.

But he did try a lot of different filament materials. It would've been really
dumb to think he was going to somehow get cotton or whatever wrong material
correct if he just stuck with it. Instead he had procedures and a framework to
try a lot of candidates and iterate quickly.

I get this argument might not be exactly fair because I can twist it to nearly
anything. But that's how maxims like "fail fast" or "haste makes waste" or "a
stitch in time..." works. They still have value

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louwrentius
Please read the book "Bad Blood" about Theranos if you haven't already.

It's just unbelievable what happend with Theranos and how a person like
Elizabeth Holmes could do what she did.

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throwaway2048
If you stop paying your lawyers you are really screwed, because nobody is
going to bother representing you in the future.

~~~
ghego1
So true

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ymolodtsov
She probably swore on blood she’d pay.

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Simulacra
I'm curious how much this is costing to defend her and the whole house of
cards.

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breck
The true disgrace is this mercurynews website:
[https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d2m26gTecPfCus98HJoN9LyA](https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d2m26gTecPfCus98HJoN9LyA)

~~~
alephnan
What's the disgrace?

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breck
Check the screenshot. That’s the user experience when I clicked this link.

But beyond the UX, and the stupidity of saying “private browsing is reserved
for our logged in users”, think of the hypocrisy here: they want us to support
freedom of the press and anonymous sources but don’t allow us to read
anonymously.

~~~
zxexz
The New York Times does the same thing now, too. A scary dark pattern. I wish
Incognito mode was less detectable, though I’m not exactly sure how that would
work.

~~~
lokedhs
Qubes OS and running the browser in a disposable VM works.

It should be possible to set up a lighter container with a browser whose data
is completely wiped after the session competes for people who don't need or
don't want to go all the way to use Qubes OS as their primate system.

Surely someone must have built this already? If not, it would be an
interesting project.

~~~
zxexz
Qubes OS is excellent for things like that, but not really something most
people are willing to use. I love Qubes OS; especially being able to have a
disposable Windows 7 template VM I can game with that has a PCI passthrough
for my spare graphics card. Though, it's a bit heavy for my daily driver
laptop.

Also, re: your browser idea - checkout the sibling comment to yours on using
Chrome with a temporary data directory.

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Porthos9K
Scumbags never change. Did her attorneys honestly think Holmes would balk at
stiffing them when she already proved willing and able to shaft Theranos'
investors and employees?

~~~
tomhoward
I'm sure she'd willingly pay them whatever it would take minimise her
penalties, if she could.

Occam's razor compels us to presume she's just broke.

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Porthos9K
Funny. Knowing her history, my razor pointed toward a proven lack of scruples.

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tomhoward
The outcome is what matters in this case, far more than scruples. Presuming
she wants to minimise her penalty, she will pay whatever it costs to make that
happen.

If she's not paying, it must surely be because she's broke, rather than out of
some perverse thrill of screwing people over and also getting a more severe
penalty.

~~~
nordsieck
> If she's not paying, it must surely be because she's broke, rather than out
> of some perverse thrill of screwing people over and also getting a more
> severe penalty.

Precisely. The "rational" time to screw the lawyers is once the trial is over,
not before.

* Not actually rational because life is a multi-round game.

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aleister_777
Well, yeah. Frankly seems like they were a bit slow on the uptake. Most
companies operate at a net-30, net-90 with terms.

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justinator
I'm simply shocked.

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Fjolsvith
In related news, Michael Avenatti sues Stormy Daniels for legal fees, also.
[1]

1\. [https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-avenatti-suing-
stormy-...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-avenatti-suing-stormy-
daniels-for-millions-in-legal-backpay)

~~~
dang
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News and stop
using this site for political and ideological battle? You've unfortunately
done quite a bit of both, and we ban accounts that do them repeatedly. The
reason is that they both go against intellectual curiosity, which is the
purpose of this site.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

~~~
kyleblarson
Meantime the number 3 article on the home page is a NYT Op Ed using charts
with non linear axes to make charts look scary to push their predetermined
left leaning narrative.

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iamasoftwaredev
> push their predetermined left leaning narrative.

The NYT Op Ed department is largely despised by leftists.

