
Ask HN: I hate startups, I love HN — am I weird? - nmc
Of course, I love some aspects of startups: the dynamism, the scientific curiosity, the quest for ways to better the world...<p>I love science, especially mathematics and computer science (algorithmics, programming, formal grammars...), and I have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge, so obviously I love HN: for the articles, as well as for the witty community around.<p>However, I am strongly anti-capitalist, I abhor the eternal meaningless fight for profit... hell, some might even call me a communist! I believe that whenever anyone creates something valuable, that should always belong to humanity as a whole.<p>In startups, I see brilliant people dedicating 80h&#x2F;week of their lives to improve the way we comment on funny cat videos; I see startups being sold for millions of dollars while losing crazy amounts of money; I see some guys vaguely listening to a keynote, and signing cheques, and I hear people call them <i>&quot;angels&quot;</i>. I see a purely money-driven world, and it sickens me.<p>I know HN is about startups, so I was wondering: is it so weird that I think like that?
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watwut
Funny enough, I am not anti-capitalist and I do not mind companies earning
money.

However, most startups are not really bettering the world and provide rather
pretty bad working conditions while the actual job is not all that much more
interesting. Half of "need" for dynamism is caused by mismanagement and
unmanageable technical debt three months after project started (caused by
sleep deprived programmers).

End of rant. Established companies can have pretty bad management too.

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copx
HN was about startups originally. Nowadays most of the items on the front page
are general programming/IT stuff. Personally I come here for that. To me HN is
a superior alternative to /r/programming, because the comment section here is
much more intelligent and civil.

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pc86
Not the mention the content in /r/programming was on HN 2-3 days prior.

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brudgers
Probably, but not necessarily for that reason.

By reducing trolling and flaming and snark, HN allows communication about
common interests among people with diverse political and social and cultural
backgrounds and mores. Shiny play-pretties, flickering lights and abstractions
over abstractions attract attention across political the political spectrum.

Besides, as an atheist needs to know more about religion than someone who has
found one true one, an informed communist needs to know more about the means
of production and mechanisms of capitalism than the bourgeois entrepreneur she
hopes to enlighten.

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fauigerzigerk
I think you may be overestimating profit as a motivation for startup founders.

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atom-morgan
Especially when tech media criticizes so many startups for having no revenue
stream.

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wellboy
Startups are not about making money. If you are the entrepreneur behind the
startup who is mostly in for the money, your startup will suck in the end and
you will shut it down or leave it with a bad feeling.

If you don't give a f __about the money and you sincerely want to change the
world and make it a better place, then your startup will succeed, be awesome
and in the end make your investors more money back.

However, most entrepreneurs don't get that, which is a shame. The ones that
get it are the ones that you want to look out for.

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phantom_oracle
_you sincerely want to change the world and make it a better place,..._

You shouldn't believe that crap. That is simply keyword optimization to
attract VCs who "believe in people, not the company".

If you want to make the world a better place, you don't need to profit off of
it at the same time.

A rational human being is driven to maximizing his own utility. While he may
want to fund a tech school in Ghana when he becomes a millionaire, he will
want to do it after he has made 10x the amount he gives away and many will do
it openly, because fame is as desired as money (if not more).

~~~
wellboy
Well, if you want to improve the lifes of millions of people, your company has
to make significants profits and grow strongly.

The thing that most people don't understand is that if a company isn't
profitable, its products will never reach these people.

That's just reality, if you can't pay your employees, they will work for
somebody else and all your idealism doesn't help there.

~~~
phantom_oracle
"Well, if you want to improve the lifes of millions of people, your company
has to make significants profits and grow strongly."

Wikipedia? Mozilla? Ushahidi?

"That's just reality, if you can't pay your employees, they will work for
somebody else and all your idealism doesn't help there."

If you can pay them enough to satisfy their utility and basic needs/wants,
people will work for you. Again, see the examples above.

You should try contributing open source software to non-profits. Maybe you
will see things in a different light and while a cat-photo sharing app worth
$50 million may not reach people in Mogadishu (who really don't give a shit
about an "angry" cat), your health/water-finder/medicine app will reach the
NPO workers who indirectly assist millions.

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runjake
I take it you haven't read pg's (the fellow who runs this site) essays.

Specifically, not chasing the money, for more reasons than one, is a recurring
theme in his essays.

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futurist
Sorry to be so direct, but HN is rife with shilling, boasting, lying and emo-
raging (new word). Sure, there are good articles here from time to time, but
take with a healthy dose of salt.

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blueskin_
That word was in use in some communities (primarily gaming) since at least
2006 or so, so not so new.

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blueskin_
Not necessarily.

HN is a great news source. I'm definitely anti-communist, but I'm neither
skilled nor rich not creative enough to actually found a startup and never
intend to. I would theoretically work for one, but first I'd need a large
degree of financial stability that is currently missing in my life. I read HN
both because I'm interested in how startups function, get funded, get sold and
fail,. but also purely as a news source.

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mrjatx
I don't work in startups to get rich. I work in startups because when I have
an idea it's a part of my personality and mindset that I have to attempt to
bring it to fruition. Some ideas wind up terrible, some great. Some fail, some
succeed. It's about having the confidence that I can in fact flesh something
out and possibly create something sustainable.

That and the whole thing about hating working a 9-5 just to warm a seat.

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hackerboos
I know a few Libertarian Socialists who read HN including myself.

The whole making money thing isn't of interest but the creative use of
technology is...

