
Could We Run Modern Society on Human Power Alone? - suchabag
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2017/05/could-we-run-modern-society-on-human-power-alone.html
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no1youknowz
Posted earlier:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14437923](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14437923)

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simonsarris
The answer to the headline is an emphatic "No."

> Unlike fossil fuels, human power can be a clean energy source, and its
> potential increases as the human population grows.

It's the opposite: Human power cannot feed the 7.5 billion people and growing.
You _need_ ammonia and (right now) oil, and lots of it. When we "scaled up"
humanity, we left human power long behind as an option for any but a few
hundred million. Just the food part alone is impossible.

They then segue into a different question: "if human power can sustain a
modern lifestyle", but even then they don't mean modern food requirements,
they really just mean "can humans keep the lights on in the one building they
are in."

> A human powered student community has enormous potential for a reduction in
> energy use.

This is a complete misunderstanding of just _how much energy_ gets the people
in the Netherlands their... say avocados. Thinking of your energy consumption
as lights in your building is so very off.

I recently wrote a counter-point essay to the headline's topic, how technology
is now a moral necessity just to keep humanity treading water, and how oil set
off a Malthusian time-bomb.

[https://hackernoon.com/the-moral-
technology-6413ca8449c9](https://hackernoon.com/the-moral-
technology-6413ca8449c9)

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jacquesm
The average person, even the educated ones so maybe more than just average is
utterly incapable of estimating complex derivatives such as their energy
footprint.

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grondilu
I once wondered the same thing, and I stopped very soon as I considered
something as simple as a 60W light bulb.

60W is 60J per second. 60J is about the energy it takes to weigh 6kg up one
meter.

So basically to keep a 60W light bulb lit, you'd have to raise 6kg one meter
high every single second.

No way.

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hn_throwaway_99
How about a simple answer: no.

This is basically an art project. Even a basic thought process shows how
ridiculous this is: If you're going to use humans just as basic energy input,
why not just burn the food directly and use that?

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krallja
Is the picture of "clothes drying" supposed to be representative of the
project? Because I don't see any human power involved there. That's 100% solar
and wind.

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ythn
According to Rick and Morty you probably could - assuming you are able to
create microverses where entire planets are manually generating energy for
you.

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anew
That sounds a lot like slavery to me.

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rmah
The short answer is "no". But a human powered residence may be possible, but
that ignores the huge amounts of power consumption required to build and
support that residence.

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asdfqwerutoe
People will eat more if you make them bike for 6 hours a day.

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arnaudsm
Human power = Food And producing food has terrible efficiency compared to any
traditional resource.

The only good point is the health benefits of such exercise.

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jlebrech
why does society have to be modern? walk to the tree, walk to the stream, walk
back to the hut.

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cidibe
There are way too many of us to live like that.

As much as we complain about it, modern society also kicks ass compared to
anything else.

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ericcumbee
Hello Black Mirror Episode

