
Trying to Cure Depression, but Inspiring Torture​ - dsego
http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/theory-psychology-justified-torture
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mcguire
Interesting.

Seligman investigated learned helplessness by torturing dogs, and was then
surprised to learn that someone else investigated torture by learned
helplessness.

Psychologists aren't very bright, are they?

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dang
This comment breaks the HN guidelines in a somewhat interesting way. Your
second paragraph is edgy and glib, but still borderline ok—it's possible to
see a substantive point there (one that I'm sure has crossed many minds when
reading about this topic), even though you expressed it more rhetorically than
thoughtfully. On the other hand, your third paragraph clearly crosses the line
and points nowhere good. Please don't post like that here.

~~~
witty_username
The third paragraph might have been intended to be humorous rather than
hateful.

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parasubcutaneor
Within the context of post 9/11 torture, one might wonder about the actual
goal of such torture programs.

I've never been entirely clear about the information being searched for among
supposed terrorists. Operating without state sponsors, terrorist cells are
pretty threadbare, and don't have many valuable secrets. The secrets they
might have are limited in use, and have a short shelf life.

Then we read in the article:

    
    
      Here we have no direct data - after all,
      there have never been controlled torture 
      trials that we know of...
    

Given that the government has a monopoly on violence, maybe the entire goal
all along was to conduct exactly this research as a non-survival experiment in
humans, under an opportunistic pretense such that the subjects being expended
would be considered despicable enough to waste on such exploration?

Maybe doing so would fill in such knowlege gaps, and provide answers in the
only way possible.

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mjevans
I'd be a lot more inclined to believe this if when the programs came to light
the government de-classified the details that supported the theory you
suggest.

Since they've said nothing I'm going to continue to use Occam's Razor and
believe that they did it either as a form of revenge or because they
mistakenly believed in cargo cult of that being how stuff was done (likely
thanks to Hollywood).

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closeparen
Hollywood tends to focus on short, intense scenes of pain stimulus such as
beating, electrocution, etc. with a tearful confession coming after a few
minutes.

The torture program had much more to do with long-term engineering of a
prisoner's environment with the goal of breaking down his humanity and spirit
over a period of months and years: stress positions, sleep deprivation, loud
music, extreme temperatures, and repeated fruitless water-boarding.

I don't think we get to blame Hollywood for this. More like the techniques
that our "advisors" were refining and teaching to repressive anti-communist
regimes throughout the 20th century, finally applied by us instead of by
proxy.

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getpost
Actually, we do get to blame Hollywood (partly).
[http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/05_torture.s...](http://www.berkeley.edu/news/berkeleyan/2008/03/05_torture.shtml)

When I was a child/teen, it was popular to wonder about the effects of TV
violence, and now we know. It appears many people are unable to distinguish
between TV and reality. Monkey see, monkey do.

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HillaryBriss
i've been in situations where the lead, alpha programmer(s) pretty much
decided everything and criticized the work i was doing to an extent that i
felt helpless and demotivated.

it's probably good to somehow radically adjust your
role/attitude/relationships in such a working environment, if reasonably and
sanely possible.

if not, it's probably better to leave than to try and "stick it out."

~~~
richard___
I often hear people say they work at startups because they are more motivated
knowing that they'll have an appreciable effect in the outcome. The complement
to this idea is that people in large corporations feel like they have little
effect - a feeling that is analogous to learned helplessness.

As a manager or leader one of your main jobs is to ensure your employees feel
like their voices are heard.

