
Eclipse Theia 1.0 – Open-Source Alternative to Visual Studio Code - eiffel31
https://www.eclipse.org/org/press-release/20200331-theia.php
======
sbuttgereit
OK, I'll bite...

"...that enable developers, organizations, and vendors to create new,
extensible solutions that avoid the fees associated with VS Code."

What fees are they talking about? VS Code is not my regular editor, but the
whole thing seems to indicate confusion between "Visual Studio" and "Visual
Studio Code". I am missing something or is the Eclipse Foundation really
conflating the two?

~~~
ASalazarMX
So, avoid the non-existent fees of Microsoft and change them for the non-
existent fees of Oracle and IBM. Sold!

But seriously, the Eclipse Foundation would be a much trustworthier steward
for a wide-used IDE than Microsoft. Unfortunately, Eclipse is in the same
situation Firefox was against Chrome 5 years ago: it's slow compared to other
Java IDEs like Jetbrain's.

~~~
tensor
I wouldn't trust Oracle. Is this going to be like VirtualBox which is "free"
and "open source" except for the extension pack on the very same page that you
can one click download?

If anyone isn't aware, they track the IP address of that extension and if they
can trace it back to your company they then come calling for money. It's
basically a sort of litigation honey pot. Sure, it's all legal, but it's such
a nasty dark pattern and so easy of a mistake to make for end users that it
should be illegal.

~~~
jdc
But just to be clear, Oracle does not control Eclipse IP.

~~~
tw04
How so? They're on the board of directors. They might not have SOLE control,
but you're implying they have _NO_ control. I'm not sure how they can both be
on the board of directors while simultaneously having no control of the
Eclipse IP.

[https://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/directors.php](https://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/directors.php)

------
trishume
I was confused why the screenshot on the homepage ([https://theia-
ide.org/](https://theia-ide.org/)) looked so outrageously similar to VSCode,
so I checked the source. It looks like the editor widget is Monaco (from
VSCode) so the text editing experience is entirely based on VSCode and Theia
provides an alternative for the surrounding IDE stuff.

Then they added a theme that imitates VSCode as much as possible to create the
screenshot on the homepage, other instances like their example of Gitpod look
less like VSCode.

~~~
sbuttgereit
Yeah... My first thought was, OK... they've just forked VS Code without really
saying they did. Digging a bit it seemed that wasn't the case, but the
marketing message that "this is VS Code just without Microsoft" would seem to
be strong enough as to cause real marketplace confusion.

~~~
kiliancs
It's not really a fork. They reuse things like Monaco, but other than that
they reimplement most things, like plugin compatibility. In fact, they started
with an API and later implemented the same API as vscode. I'd say it's more
like a clone.

I was very excited about theia because you could run it as a web server,
meaning I could develop with a complete IDE (ideal for TypeScript development)
from anywhere, without the code ever leaving a certain network.

This didn't work all that well when I tried it because it wasn't 100%
compatible with vscode extensions yet (for example couldn't get vim
keybindings), but I was able to use for a couple weeks during a trip and I got
things done.

Now that vscode allows working over ssh and other solutions, I don't see a
need for an alternative. I can work remotely with the exact same thing as from
my main workstation.

------
therealmarv
VSCodium is already here [https://vscodium.com/](https://vscodium.com/)

So in future I need different VSCode variants running because one project
decides to use Theia and the other one is okay with VSCode?! Really great for
the users :(

Seems Eclipse is doing what they are best at: Clutter things up. I don't see
the big picture here.

~~~
ilikehurdles
Why would any project require a specific kind of editor?

~~~
oblio
Team standards, for example.

------
jve
And in what sense VSCode isn't a "true" open source app? Just because the
installer isnt open sourced?

> Theia relies on Visual Studio Code’s Language Server Protocol to provide
> language-specific code completion and the other features we expect in a
> modern code editor. [https://www.infoworld.com/article/3342624/cloud-ide-
> shoot-ou...](https://www.infoworld.com/article/3342624/cloud-ide-shoot-out-
> aws-cloud9-vs-eclipse-che-vs-eclipse-theia.html)

Okay, they reuse parts from VSCode in true open source spirit and make claims
like that.

> Theia 1.0 also has a marketplace that is available today and, in the spirit
> of true open source community, allows for even non-VS Code applications to
> use these extensions

What does that mean? Looked up and appears that IDE is built with extensions
and you can use those APIs to customize IDE. + provides APIs from VSCode to
maintain compatibility. Ok thats neat.

~~~
correct_horse
No comment on the authors other claims, but VSCode is not open source. "Code -
OSS" is the open base upon which VSCode is built. VS Code's branding,
telemetry and more are closed-source. See
[https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1...](https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005)
for a full explanation.

~~~
oaiey
So we talk the Installer, the brand/icon (which is good that it is strictly
owned by one entity) and literally settings. These do not make the product
less open source (I do not dare to use the term free). Linux is free software,
however RedHat is not. You can do everything with the OSS version you can with
the VS Code.

However, there are extensions delivered in the Brand VS Code (Remote Server
SSH/Docker/WSL) which are closed source (which compete against Eclipse Che).
And that makes since a bit muddy.

~~~
correct_horse
The closed-source nature of VSCode is a little more practically important than
you make it out to be. It prevents Linux distros from including VSCode in
their package managers (except non-free categories, usually disabled by
default). And makes it impossible to patch VSCode, only "Code - OSS". Also,
for normal users, the brand/icon is everything. If they go to their computer
and "the chrome icon is blue", they will want the old icon back, if only
because it's the one they know and trust.

You are distorting facts by calling VSCode open source. This [1] is the
license for VSCode. It lets you "use any number of copies of the software to
develop and test your applications, including deployment within your internal
corporate network". The license implicitly (by omission) does not let you
distribute binaries to your friends and colleges outside of your "corporate
network". This is the defining characteristic of freeware. I am not a lawyer,
that was not legal advice.

Your argument is akin to calling google chrome open-source. Yes, it is based
on the open source chromium, but Chrome is decidedly not open-source.

On a more practical note, the fact that Microsoft does not distribute an open
source build of VSCode is pretty annoying.

[1] -
[https://code.visualstudio.com/License/](https://code.visualstudio.com/License/)

~~~
oaiey
Agree to the annoying practical situations for the distributions.
Unfortunately, a structural Linux problem. Is not that the old Firefox
problem. They need to protect brand and reputation and cannot trust downstream
packages.

Disagree with chrome comparison. Chrome adds tons of feature packages which
are blobs or heavily proprietary stuff. VS Code does nothing of that. They add
config settings and icons.

In regards of the open source built: Microsoft does that with .NET and it
seems a pain. I mean, what is an open source build? A package different for 20
distributions with each 5 versions. Or a build script (which I hope they have
:))

~~~
correct_horse
I'm not familiar with the history or the closed-source feature set of chrome.
This [1] search result shows rather minor features compared to a browser -
codecs, flash player, auto-update (I suppose this is a big deal on non-linux).
VSCode, on the other hand has a proprietary Visual Studio Marketplace
extension, (extra?) telemetry and an updater. [2] (I found a better link)

I actually only want an open source build for macOS and Windows - on Linux I
almost exclusively use what is in the package manager. I just wish "Code -
OSS" had a more recognizable name (and icon), like "VS Code OSS edition" (with
a different color of the same logo) Code OSS is just impossible to search.

[1] [https://www.howtogeek.com/202825/what%E2%80%99s-the-
differen...](https://www.howtogeek.com/202825/what%E2%80%99s-the-difference-
between-chromium-and-chrome/) [2]
[https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/wiki/Differences-
between...](https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/wiki/Differences-between-the-
repository-and-Visual-Studio-Code)

~~~
oaiey
Ok, I stand corrected. The comparison with Chrome is roughly fair. My memory
was mislead by this article [https://www.ghacks.net/2019/04/09/microsoft-edge-
google-feat...](https://www.ghacks.net/2019/04/09/microsoft-edge-google-
features-disabled/) . And I still cannot belief this is all open source :)

------
majkinetor
While I don't plan to use it in the near futre, its good to have alternative
because company agendas do change and less so in non-profit zone.

But, the major benefit IMO is this:

> We encourage VS Code extension developers to push their extensions to Open
> VSX in addition to Microsoft’s marketplace.” Open VSX is “an open-source
> implementation of a VS Code extension registry that we have developed under
> the umbrella of the Eclipse Foundation

This sounds like a nice thing to have and is usable ASAP. It will probably
come with less potential restrictions (like political bans of developers on
GitHub etc.)

~~~
cycloptic
Could Open VSX be used with VSCodium, and could it potentially be made a
default there? They have expressed an interest in using a different
marketplace:
[https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#ext...](https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/blob/master/DOCS.md#extensions
--marketplace)

Edit: Someone just opened an issue. If that was you and you're reading this,
thanks!
[https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/372](https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/372)

------
bebop
Since no one else has brought this up, I _think_ one of the big drivers behind
this project is actually another eclipse project (che):
[https://www.eclipse.org/che/technology/](https://www.eclipse.org/che/technology/)

Che is a cloud ide that is supposed to be easily deployed into a k8s cluster.
Che supports authentication and spinning up pods for projects, and other
management features. Theia may have been developed to work nicely with Che
directly (I am not a developer of either so this is only speculation).

~~~
bigredhdl
I'm always surprised how little CHE gets talked about. Is there an alternative
that has better traction? I tried it a few years ago and conceptually it was
really ahead of its time in terms of spinning up a dev environment on the fly.
Unfortunately the latest version, now based on k8s, was much more finicky to
get setup in a home lab.

------
_benj
If this is intended to be a VSCode alternative, where are the download area?
Why the strong emphasis on cloud? A version 1.0 with no package released? need
top run it on docker?

I don't want to sound negative, I would really want to download it an try
it... but from what I see in a quick glance, they want me to setup a whole
cloud to use this, not how I envision an editor that is trying to take on the
most popular editor nowadays

~~~
majkinetor
[https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-
desktop](https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps#theia-desktop)

~~~
_benj
TBD :)

------
manigandham
Product page: [https://theia-ide.org/](https://theia-ide.org/)

Release blog post: [https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-
browser...](https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-
ide-3ok0)

They claim it's a framework for building domain-specific IDEs that uses the
same extension framework and language server protocols developed by the VS
team.

However VS Code already offers a desktop installer and runs in the cloud like
VSOnline and CodeSandbox. And I'm not sure why a "neutral" extension
marketplace matters because you can always download and install the extensions
separately.

------
pseudosavant
The title of this post makes as much sense as:

\- FreeBSD, the open-source alternative to Linux

\- Baidu, the privacy abusing alternative to Google

\- Elon Musk, the self-absorbed prick alternative to Steve Jobs

------
scriptproof
Tried to make an app. That requires yarn. Yarn stopped because I have Node.js
version 12 and version 10 is expected!!! Are they serious?

~~~
anton_kosyakov
Please see [https://github.com/eclipse-
theia/theia/issues/7349#issuecomm...](https://github.com/eclipse-
theia/theia/issues/7349#issuecomment-599591096)

You can try Theia via Gitpod: [https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-
environments-the-...](https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-
the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7) For instance run Theia repo itself:
[https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-
theia/theia](https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia)

------
didibus
* Theia powers Gitpod's continuous development environments. You can try opening Theia in Theia.

* Google runs Theia as the editor in the Google Cloud Shell,

* Arduino's new Pro IDE is based on Theia ,

* SAP have replaced their Web IDE with Theia ,

* Arm's new mbed Studio is based on Theia, and

* D-Wave Systems have adopted Gitpod which allows anyone to do quantum computing with Theia

Seems it's really focused on running embedded in browser, and also allowing
you create custom IDE environments from it more easily.

~~~
lobo42
Please note that Arms's and Arduino's editors are not running in browsers
(yet), but are downloadable desktop applications.

------
hirako2000
I tend to ignore what the Eclipse foundation is producing because of their
poor development of the Eclipse IDE; they do have a point though when they
mention true open source. VS Code is excellent, but is backed by a for profit
enterprise, the same enterprise that now backs the Atom editor.

There are a number concerns pending when our development and infrastructure
eco systems are open source but controlled by for profit entities.

Or perhaps there is no concern, let's type our code with VS Code, Stash it on
Github, attend daily updates and video conference to discuss as a group on
Team, and deploy on Azure.

~~~
pkaye
Just because you use VS Code doesn't mean your have to use Github, Team or
Azure.

------
iddan
VSCode is open source. This is a misleading title

~~~
tristan957
The Visual Studio Code distribution from Microsoft is not open source. Code-
OSS is open source and that is the vscode repository on GitHub. The
relationship is very much like Chromium and Chrome.

~~~
oaiey
Just that the out-of-the box Open Source VS Code is modified by roughly 5
configuration options (you guessed, telemetry urls), icons and a EULA before
it is packaged by Microsoft.

I would not call that closed source. I call that redistributed with pre-
configured settings. It is similar to what RedHat is doing to Linux and the
GNU user space (if I am not wrong ;))

However, the extension market space, certain debuggers and certain VS Code
branded extensions are a different story.

------
chimen
Spent a good amount of time figuring out how to download this thing and test
it out. I give up. What takes? Or is it just a browser based IDE?

~~~
anton_kosyakov
Sorry, to hear it. Theia is an IDE platform and does not target end users but
product builders. For end users, we build Gitpod based on Theia to support
continious dev environments: [https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-
environments-the-...](https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-
the-next-step-in-devops-4ab7) You can try to open Theia in Gitpod:
[https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-
theia/theia](https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia)

Alternatively we provide community supported docker images:
[https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-apps](https://github.com/theia-ide/theia-
apps)

------
outside1234
I mean, do they think we are idiots? Visual Studio Code is clearly open source
with an MIT license.

[https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode](https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode)

EDIT: OH WAIT - I see - they forked at least parts of Visual Studio Code and
then open sourced it. In other words -- proving that Visual Studio Code is
open source.

~~~
tristan957
None of the code seems to be a fork Visual Studio Code is indeed not open
source. If you grab, the binary from Microsoft it is slightly different than
the code on the GitHub repository because Microsoft applies some Microsoft-
specific things. The extension repo is closed source as well. It has long been
a requested feature for open-source extension repository variants.

Code-OSS is open-source however.

So no they do not think we are idiots.

------
jtdev
If it has borrowed any concepts from Eclipse IDE (like workspaces and hidden
dirs stuffed with XML)... it’s a hard pass for me.

~~~
cardiffspaceman
I'm an active user of both Eclipse CDT and VS Code. They both have a thing
called "workspaces." VScode's hidden dirs are filled with JSON (so hot right
now).

~~~
jtdev
You mean the .vscode dir? Yeah, that typically contains 2 incredibly sparse ,
readable, and useful files... the same cannot be said for Eclipse workspaces
in my experience.

------
whalesalad
A link to the actual editor page: [https://theia-ide.org](https://theia-
ide.org)

------
polskibus
I think the only way to beat vs code at this point is to implement IDE in a
native language without GC. VSCode , eclipse etc can be very sluggish on
large-ish projects, slow downs accumulate with code base size growth leading
to usability problems, slow autocompletion etc.

~~~
jjuel
So you mean Sublime Text? (Yes I understand it isn't open source)

~~~
_benj
For some reason I'm able to find plugins for what I need in VSCode but not for
Sublime :(

I really really like Sublime Text and own a license, but the lack of plugins
or outdated one (only available for ST2?) makes it less than optimal for my
daily driver

------
srndh
I was hoping Eclipse/Firefox would partner with Sublime Text/NotePad++. There
is enough people on electron-based text editor with Atom & VSCode variant. I
was hoping a different product needs to grow.

Yes, I know ST is closed-source. But as a user, I feel that its starting to
hurt ST. I personally feel (not a pro-developer), ST is better than VSCode. ST
is a better match for Firefox. I am hoping that the ST developer joins
Mozilla.

Notepad++ has a eclipse-lite vibe. I was hoping eclipse could help Notepad++
reach linux & mac. But please dont put it in JVM, that is the original sin of
Eclipse.

We need more alternatives.

------
gdsdfe
I think this might explain why they made Theia :
[https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-
browser...](https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-
ide-3ok0)

~~~
cxr
If that's so, then they truly fumbled on execution. Open VSX requires GitHub
OAuth for login.

~~~
gdsdfe
it requires OAuth, not github's OAuth

~~~
cxr
If you've successfully logged in with non-Github OAuth, can you substantiate
that with steps to reproduce? E.g,

1\. Navigate to [https://open-vsx.org/](https://open-vsx.org/)

2\. [ _etc…_ ]

~~~
gdsdfe
Haven't tried it myself but you can always go to the code and do it yourself :
I think the confusion here is that [https://open-vsx.org/](https://open-
vsx.org/) requires github which is normal, they can require whatever they want
you can even go in and add something else => [https://github.com/eclipse/open-
vsx.org](https://github.com/eclipse/open-vsx.org)

or roll your own :
[https://github.com/eclipse/openvsx](https://github.com/eclipse/openvsx)

~~~
cxr
Why wouldn't you just say, "oops, I was wrong" instead of.... whatever you're
trying to do right now?

~~~
lobo42
open-vsx.org only requires login for publishers. Downloading / installing
extensions is done anonymously.

~~~
cxr
You write as if you're providing some additional information that debunks the
criticism here, but you're not. Stop trying to strawman and re-contextualize
the conversation.

open-vsx.org is billed as "a public registry for open-source VS Code
extensions, accessible for everyone" and a "vendor-neutral" "alternative" to
Microsoft's own registry. To be implemented in such a way that folks can only
publish to it by logging in using an auth service run by the other registry
operator amounts to a compromise at the existential level.

------
bobblywobbles
What are the problems with VSCode? I'm all for making alternatives if they are
closed or you need to pay, but I believe Microsoft is doing a good service
with all the regular and frequent updates to VSCode.

Correct me if I missed something.

~~~
whatsmyusername
It's not not-vscode so someone had to make not-vscode vscode.

~~~
throw_away
Here, I've been using not-eclipse all this time.

------
saagarjha
> Theia is designed from the ground to run on both Desktop and Cloud

> Both the frontend and backend processes have their dependency injection (DI)

That’s pretty buzzwordy :/

------
znpy
friendly reminder that while visual studio code is open source, the binary
that you download from their website is not, and it's full of telemetry (and
remember: telemetry ~= spyware).

consider using an alternative like eclipse theia or vs codium
([https://vscodium.com/](https://vscodium.com/) \- binaries built from the
open source repositories)

------
benatkin
On [https://theia-ide.org/](https://theia-ide.org/) it says the shell is based
on PhosphorJS. When I follow the link to the repo, it says it's archived. Have
they vendored it yet?
[https://github.com/phosphorjs/phosphor](https://github.com/phosphorjs/phosphor)

~~~
anton_kosyakov
Yeah, it came to surprise to us too. We are going to merge PhosphorJS into
Theia repo and make it more configurable: [https://github.com/eclipse-
theia/theia/issues/6501](https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia/issues/6501)

------
makkesk8
The Flexible Layout is almost enough to get me to switch since this is a
feature in vscode I would really like to have.

------
gigatexal
What non OSS things are there to vscode? Is it the controversial telemetry
stuff they’re doing that’s causing forks?

~~~
snazz
The installer and binaries distributed from Microsoft are not OSS.

~~~
cchance
So build it yourself? Like seriously are we really nitpicking over the
installer and binaries now which the source is available for the actual
product? It really feels like the industry is never happy if it has anything
to do with microsoft.

~~~
tristan957
The extension repository is also not open source.

------
The_rationalist
HS but does anybody know some useful features that classic eclipse offer that
vscode/theia hasn't?

------
malkia
But why?

------
pachico
I use vscode and I personally love it (I mostly use it for PHP and Go). I read
a lot of strong opinions and I'm curious to know how many have actually given
Theia a try before complaining about it. :)

------
bamuniz
I used Eclipse for Java for several years, but not anymore... If they launched
a lighter version, why not? Let's give it a try =P (just change the subject of
the thread for a more decent and less appealing pls =P)

------
dzonga
not even a download button, but aye they've released v1.0. Are they mad about
VSCode telemetry ? try installing it via git clone, they require an old
version of node.

~~~
anton_kosyakov
Theia does not target end users. It is IDE platform for product builders.
Think if you want to build domain specific IDE which inherits VS Code UX. See
who is using Theia and why here:
[https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-
browser...](https://dev.to/svenefftinge/theia-1-0-finally-a-good-browser-
ide-3ok0)

For end users, we build Gitpod to provide continious development environment:
[https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-
the-...](https://dev.to/svenefftinge/continuous-dev-environments-the-next-
step-in-devops-4ab7) For instance try to run Theia:
[https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-
theia/theia](https://gitpod.io/#https://github.com/eclipse-theia/theia) After
try to build Theia from sources locally.

------
altoidaltoid
Excellent, I found my time sink for today. Another IDE!

~~~
sigzero
Nah, you can't actually download it.

------
enesunal
Attacking an open-source software to promote another open-source software. You
needed to do better dear Eclipse Foundation. This isn't the philosophy behind
open-source.

edit: Wait. Is this an early April fools' day joke?

~~~
number6
while vs is technically open source it's not free software. not only in the
gnu sense but also the binaries are licensed different as the source code. You
have to compile vs yourself to benefit from the licensing of the source code

~~~
oaiey
The whole purpose of "open source" and "free software" is to allow
modifications and ownership by the user. Both requires to compile on your own.
So I would not call it a burden (as opposed to "benefit") but a consequence of
being open source.

So we should consider the binaries as a branded favor of Microsoft for the
lazy rest of us ;)

------
keb_
Silly observation, but the Gitpod logo looks almost exactly like the GameCube
logo.

------
newprint
But why ? What is the point ? There is already Visual Studio(free community
edition equivalent to Professional Edition), Visual Studio Code, IntelliJ. Why
waste more time and effort to re-invent the wheel ? As OSS project, it will
not be able to keep-up with changes to MSBuild and .NET

~~~
majkinetor
Why not ? You have a problem with extra options that you don't have to use ?

~~~
cchance
But it's not really cause its using parts of vscode on the backend to even
function, so it really seems like their just trying to make it seem like more
than it is, which is their cloud-editor project.

~~~
majkinetor
> parts of vscode on the backend to even function

?

If you talk about extensions reuse, that hardly qualifies.

------
siproprio
The interface looks like vscode.

------
sigzero
Bad name for an editor really.

------
LessDmesg
Another "IDE" written in some sort ofJavascript? Yeah, good luck with
performance.

------
animalnewbie
I prefer QtCreator- it's not written in Electron.

~~~
_benj
Isn't QtCreator kind of too focused on Qt?

I have used it and love it, but I was writing QML, not Python or JS for a web
project. Have you been able to use QtCreator for more than C/C++ and Qt?

~~~
animalnewbie
I use it for Rust!

------
nailer
"True Open-Source Alternative to Visual Studio Code" misleadingly implies
VScode isn't Open Source. Flagging the article.

There is no 'true' Open Source. There is software that meets the OSD, and
software that does not. VScode is Open Source.

~~~
Angeo34
vscode isn't open source it's proprietary Microsoft. only "code oss" is.

~~~
nailer
The difference is trademark files (which are handled by copyright not software
licenses) and settings (likewise these are not licensed). Almost exactly like
Red Hat Linux compared to CentOS. See
[https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-1...](https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005)

