
Ask HN: How to stop worrying and start enjoying? - anxiouspete
Hi HN,<p>I am a worrier. I worry about things that I should worry about, but I also worry deeply about hypothetical situations that will probably never happen. These can be to do with work, money, personal, life, you name it. You could even call it paranoia.<p>I am capable of idenfting the real threats from the fake ones, the ones that are extreme worst case scenarios - but I&#x27;m very bad at controlling them and letting go of them. Sometimes they can haunt me for weeks at a time.<p>This is of course deeply unpleasant and massively instrusive to the extent where I don&#x27;t really enjoy daily life anymore.<p>I was wondering if anyone here has experienced these challenges and how they worked to overcome them.<p>All the best
======
ericabiz
You've got a couple options, both of which involve seeing someone to help.

First, consider a psychiatrist for some anxiety medication. Mine put me on
gabapentin, which is mild, but yours may recommend something different. That
takes the edge off. It does help.

Second, find a cognitive behavioral therapist in your area! If you don't know
where to start, try psychologytoday.com -- they have listings. Look for
someone who does CBT specifically.

CBT really helps with your type of anxiety, because it helps you re-train your
brain. It does take time, but using CBT, you can unwind these thoughts and
stop them before they start.

If you're not familiar with the world of psychiatry and therapy, please note
that a psychiatrist and a CBT therapist are 2 different people. Psychiatrists
prescribe medication. Therapists help you work through your anxiety. Both are
incredibly useful, and I recommend you utilize both.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. However, I have studied this extensively, and
run a private FB group for entrepreneurs with ADHD, anxiety, and depression,
so I have some incentive to "get it right", so to speak.

~~~
character0
Seconding both of these. However, I might suggest re-ordering and give therapy
a shot before you go down the psychiatrist/prescription route.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I was going to say something similar. From the description it sounds like
generalized anxiety. Talking with a therapist can help you figure out what you
might be subconsciously worrying about.

------
superasn
Try doing the vertical arrow technique by David burns (google it) to see if it
helps.

Basically sometimes the thing you're worrying about isn't actually the thing
that is the core of your worry and this technique helps a lot with that.

For example if you're worrying about going out ask what does it really mean..
you'll come up with something like "the other person may not like me" again
what does it mean "I'm a total bore" what does it mean "I'll be alone and
lonely", etc. Once you get to the bottom of it then put the cognitive
distortions and rational explaonations as explained.. the bottom line is when
you write things down it becomes easy to see where the distortions are and fix
them. But you will need to do it a lot and soon you may starts seeing results.
Of course it's just my 2 cents and so ymmv.

~~~
FigmentEngine
sounds like "five whys"
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys)

------
trevyn
This is super simple. Use your conscious mind to program your unconscious
mind.

Do this by deciding how you want to think and act, and then consciously _think
those thoughts and do those actions_ , no matter how awkward it feels or how
silly it seems. You are simply _intentionally programming your subconscious_.
The weird incongruent feeling that pops up is what it feels like when your
subconscious protests.

Laughter is a great substitution, it is hilarious some of the imagined threats
that people come up with.

Your subconscious is _only_ a pattern-matching-and-producing machine. Repeat
the correct thoughts and actions often enough, and it will adapt to the new
pattern. It may take a few days or weeks to start to notice, and it will only
be a subtle shift at first, but it will happen.

Also, stop reading or watching anything that triggers the wrong emotions.

~~~
hluska
So, reprogramming how your brain works is 'super simple'??

~~~
trevyn
Yep! You’re doing it all the time by deciding what to put into it!

~~~
hluska
Speaking as someone who worked very hard to overcome some problems with
anxiety, I can tell you it is certainly not 'super simple'. It was very hard
work and I had a wonderful psychologist to help guide me through.

People who suffer should have hope, but telling them it is 'super simple' sets
them up for a nasty fall. It's a battle against years of habits.

~~~
trevyn
You took one path, and I’m glad it worked for you. There are other paths, too.

------
wilsonnb2
For a period of a few months a couple years back, I was extremely worried
about my house being broken into while I was asleep. Eventually it got bad
enough to effect be seriously effecting my sleep. I would stay up late worried
about it until I basically couldn't stay up anymore.

One of the things that helped me the most was sitting down and thinking, if
_I_ was going to break into someone's house, would I choose this one?

There ended up being a lot of reasons not to break into my house. We always
kept our front and rear porch lights on. We had houses extremely close by on
both sides, so the chances of being seen are much higher than if you broke
into one of the houses at the edge of our little neighborhood. We had two
larger dogs that would definitely bark if anyone unfamiliar so much as walked
by. There were much larger and nicer houses nearby to break into instead.

This thought experiment didn't put the irrational part of my brain to rest
immediately, but it did help considerably with the anxiety. Eventually my
anxiety went away entirely - I think it was being caused by the fact that I
was out of work at the time and facing a lot of stress trying to find a job.
It just happened to manifest as an irrational fear of break ins.

Anyways, I recommend anyone suffering from excessive anxiety talk to a
professional about it. However, it can take a long time to get an appointment
depending on where you live, so I would recommend my strategy as an interim
measure while you wait.

For what it's worth, I've also had a phobia of spiders my entire life and have
recently been applying a similar technique to fix it. Watching videos of
spiders on the internet, especially videos of people handling spiders, has
decreased the anxiety I experience around them significantly. I can even kill
them by myself now, instead of freezing up and asking my wife to do it. I hope
to keep working on it until I feel comfortable enough to either not kill them
and just let them be, or to transport them outside.

~~~
logosmonkey
That's actually close to what CBT is. You start asking yourself how likely the
worse case scenarios you worry about are and what the more likely results are.

------
shamino
This is what I learned from Dale Carnegie, which seems to help. Imagine the
very worst thing that can possibly happen, and try to imagine your life with
that reality. See that it's not actually so bad. Then, do everything you can
to prevent that from actually happening. Taking action, instead of thinking
about it, helps. Also, distract yourself with positive relationships and
exercise.

And a quote which is a little lighthearted - Michel de Montaigne said: “My
life has been filled with terrible misfortune; most of which never happened"

~~~
neverartful
Not sure if the part you suggested is from the book or not, but OP might want
to read Dale Carnegie's How to Stop Worrying and Start Living book.

------
nmyk
I've struggled with this too, and one thing I found really helpful was to
start keeping a diary--in particular, of the hypothetical situations you're
worried about.

I found that after a while, when I would go back and read what I was worrying
about, say, a month prior, it seemed so alien and absurd that it helped a lot
to put my current worries in perspective.

Best of luck to you.

~~~
vfinn
I came to say this. Write down the things you worry about as honestly you can.
The end result is that your worries become more tangible and easier to judge.

------
rdiddly
It's too bad I can't really recommend "Have your life ruined" as a cure for
worrying, because it works like a charm. Not only do big, real problems put
little, hypothetical ones out of your mind _toute de suite_ , they also give
you a chance to prove to yourself, in your handling of them, that you might
possess enough wits, resources, badass characteristics, or simply patience
with situations that truly suck ass, to actually handle most problems big or
small, and know that you'll be pretty much okay no matter what happens.

Some people worry because of things they've been through, but if you're the
type who worries about things you've never been through and will probably
never go through, going through some actual shit will put an end to that. It
worked for me. A several-year period that included the deaths of loved ones,
long-term unemployment, divorce, etc., made me start focusing on what's
important and, more to the point for your question, completely stop worrying
about stuff that's not important. It sucked though, and it's really not the
sort of thing you can plan, per se. But I came out of it and now it's like,
yeah go ahead and try to threaten me... I'm not scared of anything after all
that!

------
amorphid
I identify with much of what you say. For a long time I did not have the
skills to deal with these feelings. Now I do, but it's always hard. A lot of
this I got from about 18 months of cognitive behavioral therapy.

Here are some general tips that work for me:

1\. Feelings do not need to drive how I make decisions. I have them, and work
on ways to let them pass.

2\. To deal with things I worry about, I confront my worries by trying, making
mistakes, and learning from the experience.

3\. I get better at things I can control myself, practice finding alternative
approaches for things I can't control, try to steer clear of stuff that is
just gonna be a problem for me, and accept that sometimes I'm gonna have to
endure shit that rolls my way

4\. It's a lot easier to feel good when I'm actively seeking out things to
enjoy, and lately I've found a lot of joy in pole dancing (and I'm 43 y/o
overweight male couch potato!)

5\. Unsecured debt sucks and always makes me feel like crap & that makes
everything I do harder

I believe you can be a confident badass if you want to be. If you wanna vent
w/o judgement, hear my story, or chat in general, my email is in my profile.

I wish you success on your journey to less angst & more satisfaction!

~~~
sjg007
5\. Unsecured debt is unsecured! You should feel free by that! They took the
risk on you! If you can't pay, don't.. yes your credit will hurt and it will
hurt some future plans potentially but at the same time it is not the end of
the world.

~~~
amorphid
I see you've never had student loans in the USA :) There's no way to escape
those unless you're in a permanent coma and Obama is still POTUS.

~~~
sjg007
Student loans are secured. They are secured to your future income, tax
refunds, and social security. Only dischargeable in extreme hardship. They are
basically the most secure debt in the country.

------
DoreenMichele
1\. If you are running a fever, short of sleep or otherwise physically wracked
up, it doesn't count. Just let it go later when the fever breaks or you
finally get some sleep or whatever.

2\. Don't just let these ruminations run wild. Ask yourself what outcome you
would like to see. Try to figure out a way to imagine coming up with an
excellent solution.

3\. "Count your blessings." Stop and list some of the things that are going
right. On any given day, you are likely to have a column of bad news and a
column of good news. We tend to pay more attention to the bad news. You can
give push back against that human tendency.

4\. Eat something, drink something, take a nap and/or "stop and smell the
roses." When you are falling apart emotionally, spend a few minutes engaging
in self care. It can make a big difference.

------
peterkelly
It sounds like you may be suffering from OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder).
One of the more common symptoms is excessive worrying about seemingly trivial
things, to the point of becoming obsessed with ways in which they could go
wrong, often coupled with excessive checking and avoiding certain situations.

With OCD you can often _intellectually_ identify things as real/fake, but
another part of your mind takes over and overrides those and triggers worrying
even when it's unwarranted.

I would strongly recommend consulting with a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis,
and advice on how to proceed. I've gone through a couple of pretty bad
episodes with this, and have been helped immensely by a combination of CBT
(cognitive-behavioural therapy) and prescribed medication. Of course
everyone's situation is different; but it's definitely worth seeking
professional help.

~~~
asdsa5325
This does not sound like OCD.

------
andrei_says_
Have you considered taking a break from worrying for a short period of time?

Set a timer for 1 minute and give yourself a vacation from the world. A total
permission to drop worrying about anything, with the reassurance that no
negative consequence will result from that 60-second interruption.

During this minute, notice any impulse to engage in fixing, improving,
changing things in any way, and drop it. It’s helpful to visualize yourself
dropping the thought off the edge of a cliff.

At the end of the 60 seconds look around and note that there are no disasters.
Feel the sensations in your fingers and toes and notice that you’re safe from
immediate danger.

This is a very practical approach of retraining the mind’s habit.

When this is easy, increase to 5 minutes. The timer is important as your mind
needs the reassurance.

This is one practical way you can get out of anxiety loops. Attempt it and see
what happens.

Worked for me. Now I am capable of dropping the worry at will.

------
davebryand
Meditation can help you get meta on the process so that you can watch yourself
getting worried and recognize it as something that is of the mind. As you
start to see the patterns on how worry develops in your mind, you can start to
choose your response. Once you can choose your response, you can decide if you
want to take action or if you want to let them go.

Once you are outside of the worry spiral and see it for what it is, you may
find that not only do you not have to worry about these hypothetical
situations, but that there is nothing at all to worry about in this single
iteration that you're taking through the simulation.

EDIT: Highly recommend Transcendental Meditation. Here is some info on their
anxiety results: [https://www.tm.org/reduced-stress-and-
anxiety](https://www.tm.org/reduced-stress-and-anxiety)

~~~
jason_slack
Meditation has been extremely helpful for me. I am happy to talk about this if
there is interest.

------
partycoder
Certain level of paranoia can actually be beneficial in some lines of work.

Bobby Fischer suffered from severe paranoia and constantly feared being
poisoned among other unlikely things. But that flaw was also a great source of
strength when he played chess.

Andrew Grove, co-founder of Intel, wrote a book called "Only the Paranoid
survive". An example of how some level of paranoia can help you as a CEO.

I think the secret is: balance. Surely bad things can happen: we can choke
like eating, or hit by space debris and die but winning the lottery is
probably more likely.

------
zer00eyz
Lets put a different spin on this.

You realize that "I also worry deeply about hypothetical situations" is
something that many people can't or won't do.

Have you ever shared with someone one of your issues (maybe something more
mundane) and they blew it off only to have exactly that outcome (and then had
to bite your tongue instead of saying I told you so?) Maybe you thought of it
and didn't say it and kicked yourself for NOT bringing it up.

If you can do this then you may have a skill (and one that is somewhat
unique).

The worry part, and the fact that it is chronic and haunting is a problem.

For me, It stopped when I realized that I wasn't getting to enjoy things in my
life due to the worry. I made a lot of changes on the way. I embraced the fact
that I was going to die - and that it was out of my control - you could get
hit by a bus staring at your phone one day... a jet engine could fall out of
the sky and kill you. I had to embrace the fact that I could not change the
world only my role in it. I had to embrace the fact that anything I paid for
was replaceable. That I could always find another job - that if I had to I
could live in a shelter or a trailer or my car - because it would only be
temporary because I could make it better. It took a LONG time and a LOT of
self talk. It took a few bad things happening that were easily avoidable but
also less of a real problem then what I made them out to be.

IF you don't think you can do this, or it won't work for you, then seek
professional help - it works for a lot of people and may work for you.

------
hubby
My wife has the same exact issue. She will ruminate for weeks about things
that don't matter but to her could put her in an awkward situation. Her
anxiety can bring out the worst in her towards people who love her most and
causes me anxiety/stress because I know what situations trigger her. It makes
me want to hate her, to be perfectly honest. I know that is of no help to you,
but reading this made me want to vent.

~~~
anxiouspete
No, not at all. It's good to vent! I hope your wife can find herself at ease
soon. It's fucking shit to be like this

------
mrburton
There's no easy answer, but let me share how I function and deal with stress.

1\. Remember, you worry because you /can't/ absolutely control the situation;
sometimes you can influence it. 2\. In the grand scheme of things, anything
you produce good/bad will eventually be forgotten; sooner than you think. 3\.
Embrace failure and mistakes. They will happen and the only thing you can
control, is how you react and deal with them. 4\. When something starts to
deeply stress you out, take a moment and say to yourself "Fuck it, let me move
on right now and come back to this later. 5\. Let me repeat this one item
again...

You can only control how you think and how you react. Focus on what you can
control and let what you can't control do its thing.

Learn to take your mind off of things once in a while. That's why a lot of
founders try to use the weekend as a moment to forget about work.. or at least
try to :)

Stay mentally positive, stay up beat and remember life is short. So in the
time being enjoy it! If you really feel helpless, that's your mind telling you
to "Go change yourself!" its not "Go give up" we always misread that emotion.

------
mahesh288
You might want to talk to closest people and share your feelings. Comforting
words and having people who care you can improve your mindset. I am not an
expert but a suggestion.

------
joslin01
What are you protecting if you're spending all your time protecting it? What
are you really scared of?

Sometimes we're using our worries as deflections of a bigger problem or lack
we feel in ourselves. Sometimes we think happiness only comes in the way we
know and we gotta protect it. But does it really matter in the end? If you
don't fear death (and not invite it either), what could haunt you?

------
mancerayder
Try evaluating theoretical events with a probability rating. It doesn't have
to be crazy specific, for example: you're worried about your boss being mad at
you and firing you next week because you heard there might be some layoffs.
Real threat, uncertainty, the worst of it. You ask, is there a greater than 50
pct chance or less than 50 pct chance that this can happen? It's not meant to
be scientific, only build perspective. And also it helps acknowledge that the
threats ARE real, without letting them suffocate.

Another way to build perspective is to triage between something you have
control over (test coming up: well, one can study more) versus something you
don't (I'm really worried about the storm they're talking about on Saturday).

The brain likes to loop and build habits. Building perspective consciously
when you sense the negative thoughts is one way to 'exercise' the mind to
build habits to have better perspective.

~~~
sjg007
I always keep the frame of mind that you cannot really predict if you will be
subject to a lay off or if you will get hit by a car walking down the street.
And if you could predict it, then why not apply for another job if you think
it will happen! So it's a very unlikely possibility.

------
lioeters
I think worry, anxiety and paranoia are normally healthy instincts (planning
for the future) that got out of control. From the description, it sounds like
that "circuit" has gone overdrive and this generally anxious state has become
habitual.

As others have noted, and from my own experience, I believe you can self-
program or (de-)hypnotize yourself, to enforce healthier thought/behavior
patterns consciously. Sometimes, the help of others is just what you need,
whether it's spouse, friend, or a professional. The unbalance ("disorder")
could have hormonal/chemical causes too, so would recommend plenty of
sunshine, exercise (oxygen), balanced diet, vitamins..

I'll also echo another commeter's emphasis on the value of humor to alleviate
worries and have a more open outlook on life.

------
VarFarYonder
Strip it back to basics.

What is worry? It is when you're compelled to react to a thought with more
thoughts. The response is habitual. You cannot let the thoughts sail by
without commenting on them.

So the real question is not how to stop worrying, but how to weaken the habit
of reacting to specific thoughts.

I think takes time to find an approach that works -- to discover how to both
weaken the habit and how to not strengthen it. It's a lifestyle change. Some
trial and error is probably necessary.

I don't think there is a magic solution. Try various things, learn how your
current mental life causes you to worry. You'll try something, and your
worries might increase. So try something else. And when you notice that some
change, after some time, has caused you to worry slightly less, stick with it.

------
minikomi
You're over-analyzing things before they happen and not reflecting enough. Get
a blank book and write down your worries with a lot of space underneath to
spare. After a week, revisit the book, and see if they came true or not. If
they came true, write underneath how you handled them and what they taught
you, and how you can move forward with that experience. If they didn't come
true, write how you overcame them without worry, or why they were silly to
begin with. Do this for a few months. Revisit the filled in pages regularly.

The idea is to reframe your worries as either teaching experiences, or as
silly/easy to overcome.

------
sj3k
This was me several years ago. I did a couple small things that changed my
life in a big way. See a psychiatrist to talk through your problems. It may
help you identify why you worry so much.

When you feel the worries coming on, make a conscious effort to calm yourself;
and be nicer to yourself. You are awesome. You are great at handling any
issue. Repeat it over and over and over. Take care of yourself.

Make an effort to be more mindful. Stop and smell the roses every once in a
while :)

------
stephenbez
There is an awesome book written on this exact topic:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCV2RIR/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?...](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCV2RIR/ref=dp-kindle-
redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) "How to stop worrying & start living" by Dale
Carnegie

It has very actionable and simple advice. I've given the book to many people
and they all have liked it.

------
robg
How is your sleep? You'll find an active literature on how anxiety affects
sleep, but less so on how lack of sleep makes anxiety much worse.

[https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-
illnesses/sle...](https://adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-
illnesses/sleep-disorders)

The starting point for you might be improving your sleep habits first.

------
mamcx
A unorthodox idea from a guy that know nothing:

Turn your worries into histories. Make it a novel, comics, fan-fiction or
similar. I'm too lazy and no even write then, just play it into the head.
Because, what if somebody read about them!

> I also worry deeply about hypothetical situations that will probably never
> happen

This mean you are good at build plots! Take a look at
[https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/](https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/)
and
[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/search_result.php?q=plot](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/search_result.php?q=plot).

For example, I was thinking this past week when I was into a stresfull bug
hunting that turn to be a compiler bug (how unexpected!):

"but what if I'm a pacifist that enjoy kung-fu and live in a place where I
can't decide to not fight?"

[https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/114706/mar...](https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/114706/martial-
art-for-a-pacifist-in-a-wold-of-kung-fu)

And boom! is solved.

\---

Turning worries in histories allow to counter them. You can insert a hero, and
let he handle it. Then, obviously, you will start worry more. "What if he need
to defeat the dinousaur with lasers but a carnivorous-plant that is also
poisoned with stuff that conveniently cause depression symptoms to the hero,
now how can he fight it? AND IS RAINING!"

So, instead to fight all the time, you let it flow, but make it flow INTO A
RIVER YOU OWN.

I don't say this work all the time, but is good for me.

------
blunte
I recommend you read, or if speech is your thing, get the audio book of The
Power of Now, by Eckhart Tolle.

It's basically written to help people "solve" this problem that you describe.

Another book that is far less articulate, but still worth a read, is F*ck It,
by John C. Parkin.

------
p0wn
I'm currently reading this book - Waking Up - A guide to spirituality without
religion. It tackles being present and in the moment. This might help -
anecdotally it's helping me.

------
amirathi
A question that helps me in these scenarios:

Is this thing going to matter 10/20 years from now? You'll be surprised how
few things really matter in grand scheme of things.

------
option_greek
Anecdotal: Try probiotics, drinking kefir helped me relax. After some search
online, I came to know that it is expected. YMMV.

------
interdrift
Learn to accept life as a bit of a joke and try to face everything that you
choose to do with your whole heart

------
wisienkas
The best books I ever read to challenge those worries was:

\- The subtle art of not giving a F __*

\- The rational Male

\- No more mr. nice guy

------
mabynogy
You can go to a church and pray. Maybe some of your worries are justified.

