
My dad unexpectedly uses my Linux laptop to get real work done - itsboring
Last year I left a laptop at my parents&#x27; house with Linux Ubuntu installed. I had it hooked up to their TV for streaming movies.<p>So, this week he gives me a call and tells me that his Windows laptop battery died and he&#x27;s been using my Ubuntu laptop. He tells me about how he found the Libre Office spreadsheet and he&#x27;s been filling out his work documents (he works in high-end custom home construction) with it and transmitting it with Google Docs.<p>Then he tells me that he was able to add their house printer and print his docs from the machine using the instructions from Ubuntu&#x27;s help system.<p>I was pretty much floored. My parents are NOT technical people. I offered to get him a Windows license for the machine but he said that it&#x27;s working fine for him.<p>People make jokes about the &quot;year of desktop Linux&quot; but if my dad, without calling me ONCE, can use Linux productively to get things done, then, in my opinion, Microsoft is in trouble. As far as I&#x27;m concerned, their claim to usability in the PC OS world is dying.<p>Maybe this doesn&#x27;t mean a whole lot in the big picture, but Linux has cost Microsoft at least one end-user license for an average computer user. For my family, I&#x27;m not sure how else you define a &quot;year of Linux desktop.&quot;
======
cstross
Microsoft's desktop supremacy hasn't been down to "it's got a nice, easy to
use interface" for at least 20 years.

Rather, Microsoft is (or was, in the pre-post-PC world) everywhere because of
(a) licensing stitch-ups with hardware vendors and (b) network externalities:
get into Corporate IT departments with Office, then people will want (or need)
to use the same OS at home, and then you can strong-arm hardware vendors into
signing exclusive Windows-only-on-our-PCs licensing deals, which in turn
convinces Corporate IT that there's no viable alternative to a Windows-only
ecosystem ...

Arguments about whether or not Linux is fit for desktop use by non-technical
users miss the point: Windows' monopoly status was a virtuous circle (for a
value of "virtuous" that approximates to "in the interests of MSFTs
shareholders and provides job security for MCSEs") until the wheels fell off
when confronted with an _even bigger_ ecosystem that came out of nowhere.
Which is the magic rabbit Apple pulled out of a hat with the iPad, and Google
seeks to emulate with Android.

The desktop is now irrelevant -- less than 10% of computing devices people use
are desktops or laptops: it's all gone mobile frighteningly fast -- but for
what it's worth, Linux won. Because the winning Linux desktop is actually a
phonetop or tablet environment: Android.

~~~
sillysaurus2
_The desktop is now irrelevant -- less than 10% of computing devices people
use are desktops or laptops: it 's all gone mobile frighteningly fast._

It's ironic that you probably typed that with a desktop or laptop. Irrelevant?
Hardly.

~~~
cstross
Dirty little secret: most people aren't content creators, even for values of
"content" such as discussion topic comments.

~~~
eof
I think that's the point. While ~10% of computing devices are keyboarded,
traditional machines,.. >>10% of content is created on them; which makes them
hardly 'irrelevant'

~~~
dwaltrip
I compose the large majority of my hacker news comments on my nexus 4 phone.

~~~
lttlrck
And what percentage of your total content creation output is that?

~~~
dwaltrip
Well before I started posting code on github a few months ago, it was probably
a pretty high percentage. But I see what you mean.

------
wting
Both my parents are 60+.

My mom is perfectly fine using Ubuntu on my old x61 for email, browsing, and
YouTube. To be fair she could probably replace it with a tablet if it weren't
for the fact that she visits a lot of flash sites (Chinese TV streaming
sites).

Likewise my dad is on another Ubuntu machine at home. His work needs access to
some software / printers that can't be run via Wine so he's stuck with Windows
there.

I tried to convert my 25 year old brother as well, but he switched back to
Windows after a month. Despite being the youngest, he hated learning a new
system and preferred Windows.

~~~
mataug
My mom 50+, No technical knowledge, uses ubuntu for email, youtube, and
general browsing, and occasionally makes presentations.

My colleagues at work, Programmers, aren't able to get out of Windows, even
though they are just writing python. They would rather stick with the pain of
having to use git in a crappy console, and suffer loads of pain when shell-ing
into ec2 linux boxes, Than learn a new UI and file-system

~~~
cyborb
That's what drives me craziest about programming in windows, the freak'n
console is awful

~~~
mkmkmmmmm
That's what I never got about Windows and especially Windows devs. How can you
get anything done with all that clicking and no unix tools?

~~~
astrobe_
IDEs and Stockholm syndrome.

~~~
jebblue
IDE's rock. Eclipse anyway, it runs wherever I need it, runs finr with ssh -X.
Eclipse gives me the same solid user experience on Windows and any Linux I've
ever tried it on. I can't remember arcane keystroke combinations and the
refactoring in Eclipse can't be beat. How about Navigating to the
Implementation for a method? Eclipse makes this easy. This isn't Stockholm
syndrome it's programmer nirvana.

~~~
GrinningFool
You can't remember arcane keystroke combinations and yet you like Eclipse?
While I admit it's no emacs in the keystroke department, it is _very_
inconsistent with pretty much every other UI tool out there in terms of
keystrokes.

Powerful tool, but the "we'll go our own way despite commonly accepted UI
standards" has always made me a little crazy.

------
lucb1e
This thread is awesome. It always feels like I'm the only person on the planet
using linux in school; school requires us to use Windows and teaches several
other proprietary vendor lock-ins; and very, very few friends actually use
Linux, even though most are programmers.

Tomorrow I'm going to an open source event, mostly to show support for foss in
general. Ironically the event will be _in_ school: the very thing most
important for the future generation of programmers and yet a place teaching us
to be dependant on expensive, limiting and non-free software.

Reading this thread I almost feel that showing support is not needed that much
anymore. We're there; our goal is reached. Too bad it's not. Monday morning
I'll still be required to prove my competence (dependence?) in using certain
non-free software while running the school's spyware in the background...
which only runs on Windows. Ten years ago the Dutch government unanimously
agreed semi-public institutions should use open software. In 2013, nothing
changed.

Even despite the Snowden news, it feels like we're still at square one. At
least threads like these give me hope :)

~~~
ma2rten
What kind of Dutch school is that? High school? I studied Computer Science at
University of Amsterdam. I think I was the only one who was using windows. (I
would ssh into a university computer to do most programming).

~~~
rolfvandekrol
In the Netherlands, there is a vast difference in Linux usage between
universities and HBO/MBO schools. At the company I work for, we regularly have
interns from a HBO school and virtually none of them ever worked on Linux. We
require them to work on Linux for the whole duration of their internship.

~~~
lucb1e
> We require them to work on Linux for the whole duration of their internship.

 _google-google_ Awh in Rotterdam, a bit too far away for me. Sounded like an
interesting place to intern at!

Edit: No way to escape asterisks it seems, they'll be italic ifnot surrounded
by whitespace no matter what :/

------
hnriot
I think this, and the rest of the comments have missed the point, It's not
linux or windows really that's going on, but that "computing" for the masses
has shrunk down to the browser and Office (or it's clones) - the operating
system these days has become marginalized for most people. the File Open
dialog is about as far as they interact with it, along with CTRL P and the
dock. Linux is perfectly capable of this.

I run linux on my laptop, I run hadoop, a virtualbox for some VM's, a dozen
terminal windows spread over two monitors and python. When I go home I have a
similar setup on a MBP and most of the time I can't tell one from the other.
The operating system, even for development has become quite irrelevant. I
havnen't tried windows in decades... have they fixed the C: nonsense yet, or
(stupidly) using the wrong slash in file paths!

~~~
ilyanep
Nope, and (to contradict your point a little bit) I pretty much refuse to do
development tasks on Windows because it's the one remaining OS on which I find
it impossible to be productive. Have you ever tried working in a Windows
command line compared to a UNIX terminal? Yes, I can install cygwin, but I
really feel like I shouldn't have to.

~~~
itsboring
I tried using cygwin for a while too, but I finally gave up and tossed windows
out the...uh...window. The cygwin folks have made a heroic effort, but it
still feels like putting lipstick on a pig.

~~~
bnolsen
start up SSH server in cygwin and life gets much better.

------
pippy
For about last five years most linux flavours have been more usable than
windows. Ubuntu and Debian have superb out of the box experiences, even more
so given the disaster that was Windows 8. For example ElementaryOS is by far
one of the best UI out there right now, and Gnome 3.1 finally pulled finger
and created everything I'd been wanting in a desktop shell.

But the real "year of the Linux desktop" will only ever happen when
manufactures get behind it. Like it or not, ChromeOS was a major step in the
right direction. The complicated relationship that Microsoft has with their
OEM partners and their Surface fiasco might be the bump that will cause the
Wintel tower of cards to start falling. I'm interested in why OEM partners
even still use Windows given it's a major cost and their profit margins are so
thin. It's been a renaissance in instruction set architectures in the last
decade with ARM taking over many market segments, and this is something that
costs less and Linux has a huge advantage in. Windows will take years to catch
up in terms of ARM compatibility and even then it's likely that it will be
extremely limited.

~~~
ezequiel-garzon
Linus seems to agree with you:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFKxlYNfT_o)

------
arbuge
This is one way to look at it.

Here's another: I have Ubuntu on a couple of machines at home and still can't
get them to talk to my Brother MFC-685CW printer. I'm a PhD in EECS.

~~~
hobs
Here's another: old people are smarter than PHDs. (tongue in cheek)

~~~
_random_
It means I have seen people who were smarter than themselves :).

------
Morgawr
I had been trying to get my parents to move to Linux for a long time and now,
after a few months of struggles, it seems they are actually liking it
(xubuntu).

It all started years ago when my dad got a virus on the windows laptop, then I
told him to use Linux (all they do is watch movies and browse the web) and
installed Ubuntu for them. My mother got angry at me because she couldn't use
Internet Explorer (ugh) and it "looked different" even though my dad was
enjoying it, so we had to revert back to Windows... turns out half a year
later they are full of viruses and crap, with a thousand toolbars in the
browsers and all that stuff. They asked me for help to clean the PC and I
pretty much told them that they need Linux if they want to get rid of viruses
(I moved to another country so I have no time to go back there and fix it
every time they get a virus). My dad managed to convince my mom to use Linux,
he pretty much forced her to tell you the truth, however now they both love
Xubuntu and have been using it for more than a year without problems. They
both think it's actually faster and cleaner than Windows.

I'm happy.

~~~
solnyshok
friend of a friend kept bringing me old xp laptop with that 'cyber police,
transfer money to us' extortion-virus. when it happened third time in half a
year, I installed mint in dual boot for him and haven't heard from him ever
again.

------
chimeracoder
Linux Mint is actually a very easy and natural transition from Windows.

A few years ago, I installed Linux on my parents' desktop (dual-boot)[0] and
told them that they were "forbidden" to use any other computer for web
browsing, document editing, etc. I told them that this would be more secure,
and that's all it took to convince them.

I figured that, this way, at least I could fix any of their computer problems
remotely (over ssh), instead of helping with Windows on the phone.

It's been 2 or 3 years now, and they've had _zero_ problems. I haven't even
needed to ssh in except to do periodic software updates (which, even then, are
superfluous for their purposes).

[0] My dad's work requires some very specific Windows-only software

~~~
ams6110
The thing is Windows XP, with all its warts, will still run comfortably on a 6
or 8 year PC that was low-end when it was new. A few weeks ago, when my wife's
old XP computer finally wouldn't boot anymore I got a new hard drive and tried
to run Ubuntu on it. Couldn't even get through the installer without it
freezing up. Lubuntu installed but wasn't stable.

OpenBSD with KDE was pretty good, and I would have stayed with that but lucked
out and was able to get a clean low-level copy of the old hard drive to a new
one using 'dd' and get back to the original system.

~~~
light3
Ubuntu seems horribly bloated, and the installation takes forever. Try Knoppix
livecd, they have a pretty quick program to flash the installation to an
external usb. Plus you can get all the latest debian packages.

~~~
fsniper
On the contrary I believe Ubuntu installation process is straight forward and
fast. But the os may be a bit bloated. At least with the newest additions of
Amazon integration.

------
bartkappenburg
As I'm reading through the comments I see only two types of users:

\- the hackernews audience \- 60+ low level users (no offence)

The former group has enough experience and knowlegde to get the system (linux)
adapted to their needs.

The latter are only using it for either browsing, checking email or watching
movies.

I think we're forgetting the important 'middle' group: the ones that aren't in
IT but are working with a PC daily for their work. Linux is getting no real
traction there (yet!) because of the poor native support of tools that are
pretty common the in corporate world.

Think: \- vpn software \- voip tools \- login procedures \- custom software \-
etc etc

I'm not seeing this fixed in the near future...

~~~
pavs
The only reason Linux is not more mainstream than Windows is because its not
pre-installed on your computer when you buy. Even installing popular linux
distros like Ubuntu from scratch on a new system is much easier than
installing a Windows OS on a new system. I recently had this experience and I
was stunned to see that for Windows I had to search and download vendor
specific drivers for windows to even work with my monitor properly. I did the
same with Ubuntu and no special driver needed to be installed. But only after
completing the installation and seeing that everything works as it should, I
had the option to install proprietary drivers (I don't have any philosophical
problem with them) but I chose not to because it was working just fine.

I don't know if this is common maybe someone with more experience can vouch
for it?

~~~
_random_
Yeah, and the only reason WP is not more mainstream than Android/iOS is
because it's not pre-installed on your Samsung Galaxy/iPhone when you buy.

~~~
pavs
Just because the examples look similar doesn't mean they are the same thing.
For one, Android had a huge headstart before WP, the phone market itself is
quite different from Desktop OS market, specifically compare to the time
Windows cemented its dominance.

Other counter example includes iOS taking over BB and Nokia from behind,
Android surpassing iOS (in terms of usage) coming from behind.

Mobile market and desktop market is not the same thing, so its a silly point
to bring up.

------
ivanbrussik
I've been using Linux since Redhat 4.0, whatever kernal version that was. I've
always been a "desktop" user but very much know my way around bash and can
throw together pipes and scripts.

Last week I setup a fresh Ubuntu box in our office, on a fairly new Dell PC in
order to view a webinar. I wanted to show off Linux (ended up looking like a
moron.)

Flash issues on Firefox rightaway, no matter what I did it would not let me
full screen a YT video in the second monitor. Finally I figured a hack to F11
full screen the browser window and it let me.

Next the sound wouldn't work and I had to apt-get for another 10 minutes, then
spend another 2 minutes editing som config file. Somehow it worked.

I freaking _LOVE_ Linux and will always love it, but it has a very long way to
go until it can ship on any device.

~~~
n1ghtmare_
That's pretty much my experience with Linux (Ubuntu). I used it for 2 years
and I like it, but dude I was in config files and consoles all the freaking
time, I mean it, every single day something.

~~~
hrkristian
That was my experience with Ubuntu as well, then I switched distro. That mess
gets too much hype.

------
hrktb
The main point might be that your parents aren't technical people (whatever
that means), and the laptop was set from the start (they never had to care
about hardware compatibilities).

We did a similar thing with my inlaws, leaving an ipad behind to facetime with
their grandson, and recently they called because they couldn't see their new
mails anymore (their provider changed the imap servers), they also happened to
mainly browse sites on the ipad now, installed a few other apps for learning
english and we don't hear about windows problems as much as before (they still
need the laptop for standard Word/Excel/Powerpoint work and to print since
they don't own a blessed HP model)

As you did we give them an opportunity to switch to linux, but they would need
a well supported and preinstalled machine somehow, and that's not trivial to
find. DELL seems to have some available on their net store, but it's a hard
pill to swallow for people used to buy VAIO laptops in person and in store
(not that they cared about the brand, but they look very nice and the sales
person is reassuring).

Going the Apple route would bring more or less the same upsides as ubuntu,
while skipping all the hardware support parts, giving real exclusive
advantages (battery life etc), the bonus being they'd see anouncement in the
press they'd understand what the fuss it is about. Linux could be viable, but
it seems too late now that the Apple lineup is leaps and bound ahead of
everyone else.

~~~
malaporte
"their provider changed the imap server"

"learning english"

Funny, I had to fix a very similar issue with my french in-laws IMAP just
yesterday. Just for science, are your in-laws French and using Free.fr as an
ISP?

~~~
hrktb
They could have been as well, my parents are in France with orange, and they
don't seem happy either.

------
nmridul
The same experience here. My parents also use Ubuntu now (firefox, Libre
office).

The main issue with Linux is, some one needs to install and setup everything
for them. Finding and installing that missing wifi driver is not something
that they can do.

Windows installation is breeze, just pop-in the disk and it will install
everything for you. Hope pre-installed ubuntu systems get common.

~~~
davexunit
>Finding and installing that missing wifi driver

That "missing" wifi driver is not there because it's proprietary. It doesn't
make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty hardware. In any case,
I know that in Ubuntu, the user is informed of nonfree drivers being available
and it's trivial to install the drivers from that point.

~~~
eropple
_> It doesn't make sense to blame a free operating system for faulty
hardware._

This mindset is toxic because it does not adequately think about the end user.
I mean--drivers? What's a driver? Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult
for Ubuntu to do something that Windows does? _It doesn 't work,_ that's all I
care about.

~~~
Mikeb85
> Why do I, a user, care that it's difficult for Ubuntu to do something that
> Windows does?

It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that refuses
to do it.

I personally choose to vote with my feet. I only buy computer
hardware/software that works with Linux. If someone refuses to support Linux,
they don't get my business.

If everyone does this, eventually everyone will support Linux or go out of
business.

There isn't anything that Linux can't technically do. It's simply a matter of
who is willing to support Linux.

~~~
eropple
_> It's not Ubuntu that can't do it. It's the hardware manufacturer that
refuses to do it._

Thanks for the explanation, but I've written (very simple) Linux device
drivers before, I am aware. :) But my point was that you are making a
distinction that simply does not matter to the end users that are under
discussion. That a hardware manufacturer doesn't produce drivers for Linux
doesn't change that, to a user, "Windows can do this and Linux can't."

It's great that you buy stuff that works with Linux. Linux's problem for
_normal people_ is that it doesn't work with everything. Windows does work
with everything that a normal person is likely to run into and OS X comes
pretty close to the same.

~~~
Mikeb85
I think the average user understands better than you give them credit, since
OSX, iOS, Android, and Windows RT/Phone have fragmented the device OS
market... The computing scene is no longer a MS monopoly, but is fragmented
between a bunch of incompatible OSes. Nowadays that means you buy peripherals
that adhere to standards, or that don't. It's in the manufacturers' interests
to create products based on standards, which of course will work with Linux...

When my wife sees that her iPhone is a pain to connect to the computer, to her
car, can't mirror to our TV, etc..., yet her Android tablet does perfectly,
she doesn't blame the computer, car and TV...

------
rpgmaker
I use Linux and I find this post sad actually. It's 2013 and Linux users are
still insecure enough about the OS to gush about someone using the OS for
something productive? Isn't that what all of us have been doing all this time?

~~~
broodbucket
Yes, us. People on Hacker News are either professionals in some technical
industry or enthusiasts, for the most part (I'd imagine). On the other hand,
if someone who isn't tech savvy can use it over another system that they've
been trained to use for many years, then that's significant.

------
spencera
Just have to say, Apple has been working the usability angle a lot longer than
Ubuntu and it doesn't seem to be upsetting Microsoft too much. Of course, this
comes from a person who has never been able to rationalize spending his own
money on a Mac.

~~~
itsboring
That's true, but I do have to point out that I recently gave a mac mini to my
mom before my dad started using the Ubuntu laptop. I went that direction
rather than upgrading her PC from Vista, so it's cost them at least two sales.

I realize that means nothing in the grand scheme, but I still feel it's a
powerful anecdote given that my parents are "average" computer users.

~~~
spencera
Interesting. I wonder if your father resorted to the Ubuntu laptop because
your Mom refused to give up the mini :P

~~~
itsboring
Yeah, that's very possible. All I know is that neither of them have had to
call me for help so far.

------
V-2
Is this such a success in 2013? That you don't need to be a guru to configure
a printer and make use of it?

I can't wrap my head around why people seem to hail it as some sort of a
triumph that someone managed to use Ubuntu for "email, youtube, general
browsing" without resorting to expert aid :)

I mean, good for Linux, but isn't that an absolute minimum of what should be
expected from a modern desktop OS?? Shouldn't it go without saying? :)

If something as normal as that makes for news to share, it is a clear
indication of how bad a reputation Linux has had for a long time

~~~
DocG
I usually just restore shortcuts to desktop, because users can't do it
themselves. Or change font size in word document. I would be impressed, if any
of them would manage more.

In my experience, configuring a printer is usually over head for normal user.

~~~
V-2
No plug and play?

~~~
DocG
some are, some need drivers.

But in all seriousness, plugging printer power cable to power grid, plugging
it to printer. Plugging usb cable to printer, plugging it to right port in
computer. Switching printer on. Waiting for it to install. Knowing which
printer to choose. It could take up to hours.

------
barbs
I find this is especially true when comparing to the mess that is Windows 8.
Just finding the power button in that OS is a nightmare.

It's also interesting to see that it was Ubuntu, presumably with the new Unity
interface. It's not something I personally like or even find intuitive, but it
looks like it's fairly easy to pick up even for non-technical people. Along
with the push by Valve to support Linux, I really hope this increases take-up
of linux on the desktop.

Sent from my Linux desktop. :)

~~~
Nursie
I went to my Dad's place a few months back. He had a new win 8 laptop and
asked me how to get going with it, he's not an idiot and has been using
windows since the 3.x days. As a linux guy I had trouble too but we got there.

I went back two weeks later and he had a Mac.

------
robabbott
My dad is 74. I rebuilt his laptop last year and replaced Windows XP with
Unbuntu. He loves it and has had no issues with it.

~~~
itsboring
That's awesome, love to hear stories like that.

------
fsniper
I'm a Pro-linuxer and never have any Windows machines near my home.

So this means, Ubuntu netbooks and laptops all around and my mom and sister is
very familiar with Linux. They are using these easily.

Once I found out my sister tried to install wine via source code :) She needed
some windows software for some firmware update and all her research lead her
to wine and source code install. The thing is she did not asked me anything
about the whole process.

~~~
_random_
Lions can eat tofu if that is the only thing available to them. Should've
given them a choice between Mac/Lin/Win.

~~~
fsniper
They have been using Windows before hand.. At least my sister.

------
vu3rdd
Back in 2002, I went for work to the US for about six months. Calling India on
the telephone was quite expensive then, even with calling cards. So, I left my
GNU/Linux machine at home with my parents and made it to login without
password. It was running a version of KDE and had netscape mail. I used to
connect to the internet using this little program called 'kppp' and there was
a nice option in there to open any program of choice when a connection to the
internet is made.

So, I made it to open netscape mail on connection.

My father was quite uninterested to learn to use the computer, though he took
elaborate notes while I explained to him how to send and receive email. My
mother who cannot write english, listened to what I was explaining. Both of
them had never touched a computer before and had a tough time operating the
mouse. Once they adjust the pointer to the right menu and they lift their hand
up to click and the mouse pointer goes somewhere else. :)

But at the end it worked quite well. My mother used the computer to send me
email. She wrote transliterated malayalam (my native language). Both of us
understood what we were talking about and we exchanged emails almost every day
of my six months of stay.

There were times when the internet service provider couldn't provide a
connection to a ppp request and kppp printed weird error messages. I had a
friend who used to visit my home and see if there are problems. Barring a
couple of simple problems, it worked reasonably well.

Every time someone complains that GNU/Linux is difficult to use, I narrate
this story to them. Yes, there are still rough edges, but we have come a long
long way since 2002. Oh, did I say my parents were both 60+ in 2002?

------
jmspring
My dad replaced his XP netbook with an older 11" MB Air I had. He has since
downloaded Xcode 5 and started working on learning objective C in his mid 60s.
His only subsequent request was figuring out a solution for my mother's
machine requirements around an iPad. She's one of those that clicks on emails
they shouldn't.

~~~
georgebarnett
My mother (65) never took to computers. I gave her a laptop years ago, but the
scary keyboard/trackpad black setup combined with the 60 minute charge (this
was 2001) means she never touched it.

When HP had a fire sale, I sent her one and she loves it. I think the
interaction model is more friendly for her than the unknowns if a trackpad and
windows.

------
spokenn
I installed xubuntu on a 60+ year old man's laptop. It was surprising to see
him go from typing "www.google.com" in the yahoo homepage search field to
searching for and installing packages on the software center. He needed help
when he updated the kernel but he has taught himself a ton of things.

------
Gnarl
I'm gonna set my 70+ neighbor up with Linux because the Vista that the
computer shop sold her a few years ago as "the future" is dying miserably (all
by itself, she doesn't install tons o' stuff) and she also feels it's a slow
pain to use.

I'm a freelance consultant so she asked me how to get rid of all the
"problems" (meaning BSODs, malware, viruses etc.) because she needs to get
real work done. When I mentioned I use Linux and never have a BSOD or virus,
she asked me if I could "upgrade her computer to Linux" \- her words :)

So, Linux Mint is going on my ol' neighbor's PC.

~~~
goombastic
Try Elementary OS. The thing is a joy to use.

------
lenkite
AFter fighting with virii and malware upteen times on my Mom and Dad's laptops
- which I have to correct every few months or so, I simply gave up on Windows
and installed Ubuntu for them. I didn't even bother training them - just
pointed them to a few tutorials and help.ubuntu.com. The only hard part where
I had to chip in were the printer drivers...aargh. Frankly, windows required a
lot more help.

However, I will not deny that something like the Chromebook is a serious
competitor to the Linux desktop - for the casual user.

------
itsbits
I see many people against windows...I have 2 PCs one with linux(programming)
and windows(gaming)..Windows is not that bad for programming as well...its
just the set up for your coding env matters....i do sometimes end up
programming in windows after playing some game..so i have some tools etc
installed which give me almost equal experience of doing it with
linux...saying that i still prefer linux laptop for coding, one reason can be
addictive games missing in linux...

------
skuunk1
The only real trouble with Linux is possible driver issues (caused by trying
to shoehorn an OS onto hardware for which it wasn't initially designed). If
more OEMs would put Linux onto laptops directly this wouldn't be a problem.

It's still tough to find a good, decently priced laptop OEMed with Linux
though. I can't get my hands on the Dell XPS with Ubuntu pre-installed in my
current country of residence...

~~~
awesomerly
Please define "shoehorn an OS". Linux generally runs on most modern hardware
and arguably is a better general purpose OS than Windows.

~~~
hatsix
Support for Optimus is horrible. Even if you get it all working, you still
can't use both the LCD and an external monitor seamlessly. (i.e. you can see a
desktop on both, but you can't move windows from one to another)

You CAN do this if you turn off Optimus and just use the NVidia card... but it
cuts battery life down by 40%... :-/

~~~
dublinben
That's really nVidia's fault, for not providing proper drivers. Intel and
AMD's integrated GPUs are well supported with few issues.

~~~
hatsix
Absolutely, but it is a counter-example to the "runs great on modern hardware"
statement.

------
jacknews
"I was pretty much floored."

Indeed, because old people are all idiots. Honestly, for the basic tasks, the
major OS's are as easy as each other these days.

~~~
itsboring
Wasn't meaning to imply that, he's not stupid in the least. What I was
impressed with was the initiative, as many users are afraid to make a change
like that on their own.

------
txutxu
The main point here, is in your "My parents are NOT technical people".

They do not have pre-juices on stuff.

My mum uses linux since she was 65. It was her _first_ contact with an O.S.,
she did learn to use most things on her own.

In all that cases, they didn't deal with hardware choices, software stack
choices, incompatibilities in those layers... they just did get a working
browser, spreadsheet or messenger... and used it.

------
ramigb
After i read this thread and since i was really busy in the past couple of
months, i just realized that for the first time ever all my devices (2
laptops, 1 desktop) are all Ubuntu, and yet i didn't feel i needed to change
anything, i think the cloud based apps + the nature of my work (programming)
made the choice on my behalf and i couldn't agree more!.

------
kunai
Handed a GNOME 3 PC to my dad.

He got it right away. The multitasking in GNOME is just so fluid and efficient
compared to any other operating environment, and it's just so... intuitive.

As an OS X user, I find GNOME more consistent and easy to use, to be quite
honest with you. I'm just holding out until Wine gets to the point where CS6
is supported.

~~~
sbuk
Let me start by say that I am actually a fan of Linux, but not much of a fan
of the community that surrounds it and for what it's worth, this is just my
opinion. Obviously everybody's milage will undoubtedly vary! My personal
experience of Gnome 3 is the polar opposite of yours. I cannot stand it. The
UI elements are just horrible and I find the paradigm clunky and lacking in
coherence. In fact I find the experience similar to Windows 8, with it's
confused metaphors. Unity, while visually more appealing is not much better in
terms of usability; the lens paradigm I find irksome. While there is no doubt,
IMHO, that it should be surprising that anyone can get "real" work done with
the software available on the various Linux desktops available, I feel that
there has be a regression in the UX that really does need addressing.

~~~
sbuk
That last line should read:

"While there is no doubt, IMHO, that it _shouldn 't_ be surprising that anyone
can get "real" work done..."

WTF is "real work" anyway?

------
bengalister
Linux becomes more and more usable for non-technical users and has done a lot
usability-wise on desktops but let's face it there's still a long way to go.

If for instance you use Ubuntu (the most popular distro for desktop), it is
still plagued by bugs(and even the Long Term Support version). Have a look
also at the Linux Mint forums it seems better but many users complain about
buggy Cinammon. Well all in all, the desktop environments suffer of more bugs
than on Windows or Mac.

Here are the reasons that keep me switching for my home PC (Ubuntu is only
installed on my spare PC that I use for testing) : \- No decent Flash support.
The hardware acceleration by the GPU has been disabled (no option to enable
it) and when I watch videos on youtube CPU reaches 100%. There's still Chrome
which has its own Flash player and it improves significantly with a CPU
consumption of around 50% but still far from I got on Windows 7 between 10 and
20%... \- Battery draining : again a hot topic and mostly related to bad
integration with popular graphic cards and other hardware components (wifi
cards) but most people complain of reduced usage on battery (50%) compared to
Windows. \- For Java developers who use Eclipse, SWT looks ugly and performs
badly on Ubuntu (not tried on other distros). Swing based IDE like
IntellijIDEA or Netbeans are better but they don't match their Windows
counterpart. \- Ubuntu or even kernel upgrades that tend to break things like
for me a webcam support.

I wish these problems were solved because as a developer I still prefer Unix
based OS. It is very subjective but what has changed for me recently is that
now I really find Ubuntu to be more visually appealing than Windows 8 (and
same for Gnome 3.10). The login screen, the dash, software center are really
nice. Even the Nautilus file manager that I used to dislike now looks really
nice (now it is named Files) The desktop experience is much more "consistent"
than it used to be and Ubuntu with Unity/Gnome shell and Gnome have worked
hard to make the desktop user friendly and sexy.

------
marcloney
This is a fantastic anecodote and after the year we've had I'm finding the
challenges people are having from entering Linux are becoming less and less.

Earlier today I marvelled at running a game through Steam whilst listening to
streaming music through Spotify whilst being able to switch window into bash.

~~~
itsboring
At work, I threw arch on an old-ass laptop we had sitting around, and then
installed steam and portal, hooked it up to the office TV and then had to sit
there a minute to marvel at the fact that it all just worked. Never would have
predicted that a decade+ ago.

------
smcnally
My mom's 81. Ubuntu's been her primary OS for 3+ years. Started with Windows
on a low-end Dell laptop. When any of her 19 grandkids played on it, they'd
leave new toolbars and malware behind. The machine got so slow, she was happy
to see her email and browser on Linux.

------
trentmb
I tried making my parents use *nix. It didn't go over well. My worthless
anecdote counters yours.

~~~
itsboring
Fair enough, but the point was that I ddin't force anything. Like I said in
the post, I offered to get him a windows license, but he didn't need it. I
didn't try "making" them use anything, as you put it.

~~~
trentmb
I provided a free computer no different than yourself. Sorry if my original
verb use was misleading.

------
ungerik
Let's see what will come out the current development of Ubuntu. Currently it
kind of feels like the Windows Vista of Linux Distros. Slow and clumsy but
usable if you don't know anything else. Will 14.04 be the Windows 8 of Linux
Distros?

------
mistercow
The moment I really realized how much things have changed was when I plugged
an old printer into a 64 bit Windows machine, searched for drivers, and
finally found out that Microsoft's official position was "Buy a new printer".
Then I plugged the printer into my laptop running Ubuntu and it said "Please
wait while we set up your printer... OK your printer is ready to use".

I used to advise novice users against Ubuntu because troubleshooting can get
pretty hairy. But that's my ex-Mac user bias showing. Compared to Windows, it
is at worst a toss-up, and I feel that's being _very_ generous to Windows.

------
kaazih
The first computer i donated to my folks was win 3.1 no internet. Then win nt
4 still no internet. Finally xp with a dial up connection. Now in their 70's
they don't use a computer at all. Finally no more support issues.

------
cycojesus
In my experience only people who think they know something about computer have
problem with Linux. My wife and my mother are Linux users without even knowing
what it is and they have exactly zero issue with it.

------
chmike
The only reason I keep a windows machine around is because of Word/Powerpoint.
I can get ork done with these. Open/libreOffice are pale copies.

I also played some games like TF2 or Age of Empire, but the former is now
playable on Ubuntu. Steam is doing an impressive work.

For programming, I prefer QtCreator to Visual Studio. I regret QtCreator can't
be used with other languages like D, Go, Java.

I don't think I'll make the switch to windows 8. My father 82 bought a new
computer and Dell only sell Windows 8 on these. This costed him a lot of time
to adapt for no justified benefit.

~~~
itsboring
QtCreator is great, I don't get enough chances to work with it (mostly doing
C# in monodevelop).

VS has really annoyed me lately when I've had to hop into windows. Way too
much "waiting for background task to complete" stuff going on.

------
sprizzle
I had a similar experience with my cousin, except with Chrome OS. His laptop
died and he asked to borrow any extra laptops I had around, and the only one I
happened to have was a Chrome OS machine. I was worried he'd need a more
desktop-like environment, but it turned out he loved it -- everything we do is
on the web these days and there wasn't really anything that he was missing. He
moved from Excel to Google Spreadsheets without much trouble and didn't really
need anything else. Just a browser. Amazing where the web is going.

------
anthony_barker
Family has been linux for the past 10 years... I would say about 3/4 years ago
the complaints completely stopped with ubuntu 9.10. Since then there has been
some pain with unity (which we disabled for a year or two). Older computers
run either older versions of ubuntu or Elementary OS or Chrunchbang OS #!
[http://crunchbang.org/](http://crunchbang.org/).

Occassionally people still need help with LibreOffice oddities. Also I've had
intercompatibility issues with MS Office with powerpoint.

------
jrs99
Just among friends and family, I find that Linux dominates the desktop.

------
pulmo
My mom is 50+ and used XP for a couple of years before my dad installed
Xubuntu on her netbook. Turned out she didn't really need Microsoft Word for
writing, she only used it because she knows it from work. Same with Outlook. I
think many users are in a similar situation and could easily switch platforms
saving money for both hardware and software. The only reason why there is
still an old Windows PC at my parents home is the Adobe Software for their
Sony ebook reader. (Damn you, DRM!)

------
ofj
Same story for me.both my parents are using Ubuntu on 1 PC and 1 Laptop. Since
I've installed and set them up, I never had a single call like: where the hell
is X or why the hell is Y producing strange error popup...not even speaking of
the complete absence of malware. I myself did not even expect this when
starting this experiment, but it proves to me: Linux IS arriving at the
desktop! ...and its about time.

------
salilpa
A couple of years ago, our home desktop which had windows 7 died. My parents
needed a new desktop and i gave them my old laptop running ubuntu. Most of the
time, my parents use it to browse websites and little bit of spreadsheet and
powerpoint. The default ubuntu installation had all that.

Also the flash support has increased considerably. There was a time when
hangouts or facebook video chat had issues. now it works butter smooth

------
elwell
My Grandma couldn't understand the concept when I showed here how to browse
the internet. She kept wanting to have what she was seeing be on paper.

------
ateeqs
Microsoft is in trouble for other reasons, as well. Windows 8 and 8.1 suck.
They just don't listen to anyone-- developers, enterprises, home-users, you
name it.

"They'll shove a xyzw down your throat and you'll like it" has been their
philosophy for quite some time-- be it .NET, Ribbon interface, Metro, etc.

They are quickly (erm slowly) becoming irrelevant, and it's mainly as a result
of this practice.

------
archer2013
Many in comments acting like Ubuntu is teh only linux distro/UI out there,
many of the linux community now despise Ubuntu and see it as an OSX wannabe,
if you want a real linux experience install archlinux and pick from over 1
dozen Ui's (DE/WM's) surely one will fit your needs. personaly for programming
you cannot beat xmonad, and for play you cant beat openbox.

------
andreiursan
After reading most off the coments. It feels that we are going in the right
and healthy direction. People will be able to chose what OS they want without
losing the benefits of actualy doing useful work.

Some will want Windows 8, some will go for Linux and some for Mac OS. We are
not yet there, but having a healty market distribution of the major OSes will
benefit the end-user.

------
sammanual
Nice -- just need to eliminate the "has to be Microsoft" mentality in the
enterprise (our shop refuses open source anything since "there's no support
model") and Linux can finally make in roads in the organization. But as they
say - you don't get the big bucks for backing non-proven technology , ie.,
non-Microsoft solutions. SAD

------
lignuist
After my nephew's laptop (Windows) stopped working two or three years ago, I
bought one with pre-installed Ubuntu for him and introduced him to Open Office
and Gimp. During the first few weeks, he missed some of his games, but he got
used to it pretty fast. No he is using it for studying and everything else and
I never heard of any problems afterwards.

------
oddshocks
My parents have both rocked Ubuntu and Fedora, with minimal instruction from
me. The interfaces/distros seem to come naturally.

------
dsleno
I am stuck with windows for now because we develop Windows software. But I
have Virtual Box image of Ubuntu on this machine, which I use for web surfing
and al manner of other activities. I just prefer Ubuntu. After having
reformatted my Windows machine last week because of a bad virus infection, I
have decided to do all of my web surfing on Ubuntu..

------
fit2rule
My in-laws, 60+, have been running Ubuntu on their old Macbooks for a few
years now. They've never once complained about it, and everything Just Plain
Works - internet browsing, email, youtube, office-apps.

For us, at least, the year of the Linux Desktop was two years ago. Its been a
very productive release from the dual hegemonies of both Apple and Microsoft
..

------
richardjordan
Thanks for sharing. I know my comment adds little but I wanted to throw out
there a nod of appreciation for a story like this.

------
munimkazia
I think it is just a matter of conditioning and habit. I have been using linux
on and off for the past 5-6 years, but using it exclusively in the past 2
years. I am a little uncomfortable on Windows 7 now, and I am totally lost on
windows 8. The UI isn't user friendly for me any more. I'd take Unity, or even
Gnome 3 any day.

------
danielrhodes
I think that over time everybody gets to a certain level of proficiency where
such interfaces and concepts are not as daunting to them as before. Back in
the 90s and even 00s, people were so uncomfortable with GUIs and then the
internet that getting them to try a Windows alternative was not worth the
effort.

~~~
ams6110
Also the huge popularity of tablets and smartphones have made people less
fearful of different UI conventions and more willing to explore and figure
things out.

~~~
itsboring
This is a very keen observation, I feel like mobile devices have helped a ton
with breaking the chokehold that Gates and Ballmer have had on the industry.

------
mrb101
I had bought my mother her first Netbook 2 years ago and i installed Ubuntu on
it.. She is using it after like an hour introduction. While it was her first
time to use a PC. 3 months ago my dad got her a new Laptop which had Windows
on it. she called me the next day to install Ubuntu on it !

------
anupshinde
My dad is 60 and non-tech and he switched to Linux a month back. First Ubuntu
but then to Mint because that felt similar to Windows. He hasn't complained
even once. Personally I have to Windows only because my office dictates that -
some of their software's wont work otherwise.

------
stefs
my dad salvaged an ancient notebook from work to use as a living room computer
(usually if he sees something on TV that interests him, he starts googling
it), or use for vacation planning etc.

tried to install windows but failed twice due to errors i can't remember. i
then told him, fuck it, as you use it only for surfing, we'll just put linux
on it and installed ubuntu 8.10. worked like a charm. everything ran out of
the box, no hassle, nothing.

a week later i asked him how it was going; he answered: "everything's perfect,
but i don't like desktop background - the skull."

the skull ... what skull? then it dawned on me: "dad, that's not a skull -
it's a stylized ibex."

[http://i.imgur.com/i60lz2G.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/i60lz2G.jpg)

------
dhughes
My 70 year-old mom can't handle the swipe unlock on an Android phone and won't
answer or use it if I unlock it. My dad also 70 is OK with using it and even
put on a password but he keeps shutting it off when he isn't using it, neither
use a computer.

------
wildgift
I gave a linux pc to my coworker, for her kids, and they have been using it
for a while to do homework. They have some issues now and then, but it works
pretty smoothly. The computer is really old - a Sempron with a couple gigs of
RAM.

------
danielholmlund
I need to brag a little because I'm proud of my dad. He's 63 years old and can
boot his Grub configuration to 14 different Linux distros last time I looked (
which was about 8 months ago ). Yes, he is technically inclined.

------
weslly
Same thing with my mum. I installed Ubuntu on her slightly old laptop a couple
of years ago and when she bought a new computer she asked me to replace
Windows 8 (which she found pretty confusing) with Ubuntu again.

------
laurenstill
I successfully converted several medical practices to Ubuntu last year. 60+ yr
old docs who printed emails to leave on my desk. 18 yr old who save everything
to the desktop. Better than expected.

------
viame
Very nice, I bought my mom a Macbook Air, but I will try installing Ubuntu on
my dads laptop and see how it goes. I would also like to see some high-end
construction homes he does, if possible.

Thanks

------
dawkins
My father is 81 and very happy with linux mint that I installed for him a few
years ago. He only uses chromium.

Recently he bought a new laptop and the first thing he asked me was to install
Linux.

------
geeknik
I'd use Linux on my desktop if my entire Steam catalog would play under Linux,
but since 99% of the games I play are Windows only, I'm stuck in the Windows
world. ;)

------
readme
Linux has a chance to become a popular OS for home desktop use.

However windows is going to retain it's grip on businesses because there is no
good Active Directory replacement for Linux.

------
jrs99
my entire family uses linux. We just find it much easier to use and install
things.

But the number one reason, of course, no malware, which happens every time
kids use my computer on windows.

------
general_failure
My mom use kubuntu for over 4 years now. She actually had never seen computers
since she was 60. She had her learning curve but she loves it.

------
davidcollantes
Most people can do just fine by using a tablet or a Chrome machine. Microsoft
and some PC hardware companies are in trouble, indeed.

------
vayarajesh
Thats nice!.. soon ubuntu mobile os will be out.. your dad will be happy to
know that i guess :).

------
Eyes2design
I have Linux Mint on my laptop and run I run Linux on all my computers. Best
menu ever cinnamon.

------
tn13
Nothing surprising at all my parents are perfectly at ease with Ubuntu.

------
SylonZero
The time for MS and Windows is passing. I guarantee it.

~~~
mukundmr
Microsoft India sent me an email announcing a 15% hike in cost of their
software in 2014. They wanted me to renew some of the subscriptions early. I
do hope they wake up to reality.

------
auctiontheory
I wish Evernote supported Linux.

~~~
seth_hg
try
everpad([https://github.com/nvbn/everpad](https://github.com/nvbn/everpad)).
It's not perfect but it works.

------
0xc000005
even a dead cat has a better user interface than windows 8.x

