
The new Jaguar cars sound like spaceships, thanks to Richard Devine - glitcher
http://cdm.link/2018/09/jaguar-richard-devine/
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Animats
I've heard that sound before.

Compare: Jaguar "designed sound"[1] with a U.S. Army M1A2 turbine powered tank
starting up.[2]

(I once considered using that sound as a boot-up sound, but decided it would
get annoying after a while.)

[1] [https://youtu.be/1tbHA7smkjU](https://youtu.be/1tbHA7smkjU) [2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZfVP19mDm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZfVP19mDm4)

~~~
andrewl
Some of the sounds coming from the tank sounded to me like a vacuum cleaner. I
guess a Vulcan would be overkill:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydfddlcebSo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydfddlcebSo)

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jaysonelliot
One of the reasons I was excited for an EV future was the prospect of quieter
cities and towns, as the noise pollution from legions of internal combustion
engines gave way to the quieter sound of electric cars.

The pedestrian safety argument makes some sense, but I can't help wondering if
there could be a better way than to add to the noise pollution.

~~~
maxxxxx
The safety argument makes no sense. Especially once all cars are quieter.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Except that's not true, it does make sense. Electric vehicles are apparently
40% more likely to hit a pedestrian than a conventionally engined car.

There's been research going on for at least the last 10 years into both the
risk and effective sounds that don't simply prove annoying (like a beep
would), or lose directionality.

[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/06/new-
law-...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/06/new-law-combats-
silent-menace-electric-cars)

[https://www.rnib.org.uk/rnibconnect/silent-deadly-
electric-h...](https://www.rnib.org.uk/rnibconnect/silent-deadly-electric-
hybrid-vehicles-sight-loss)

~~~
icc97
Annoyingly that 40% figure is almost impossible to find, it's from a survey
done by a Guide Dogs charity in the UK but their own page on it [0] now just
refers to it and doesn't link to the original report.

[0]: [https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you-can-
help/campaigning/sa...](https://www.guidedogs.org.uk/how-you-can-
help/campaigning/safe-and-sound/)

~~~
NeedMoreTea
So it is. Can find lots of references to the report, even from gov.uk, but no
actual links to it.

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lgl
We have a few of these Renault ZOE [1] around here with that feature and they
sound very "spaceshippey" as well.

Also, anybody else finds it funny the self-fulfilling prophecy where we're now
actually projecting "hums" and "whooshes" on the outside of our cars that
sound like what, in our minds, is what "future vehicles" should sound like?

And can we have 3rd party sounds? I'll make mine constantly say the "Move it,
move it!" from Police Academy [2]. It'll be fine.

[1] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO1F1ssr-
LI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO1F1ssr-LI)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFMB6F6nms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFMB6F6nms)

------
eps
In related news, newer Audis have mics in the engine compartment to relay the
engine sound to the cabin, and you can adjust the volume between preset
levels. This exists A8 and in S models.

The Jag's sound effect is cool, but there'll always be a nagging thought that
it's an empty embellishment, like those aftermarket turbo valve sound
emulators and blue-tinted pseudo-xenons so popular in certain... erm...
modding circles.

~~~
013a
Every newer sport-focused car on the planet has this. All of them. Its how
many companies still make low-displacement turboed engines sound good enough
to back up their performance; for example, here's an article about a 2012
Focus ST [1]

[1] [https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ford-focus-st-sound-
sympo...](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ford-focus-st-sound-symposer-
delete-explained-is-an-easy-diy-118757.html)

VW calls the system Soundaktor, as another example. You'll see it implemented
one of a few ways (or a combination): fake sound being piped through the
speakers, real sound being piped through the speakers, a physical breach in
the engine firewall to allow sound through, additional speakers in the
firewall-area specially tuned for engine noises... etc.

They're very common. Startlingly common. I'd bet that you, the person reading
this, has one in your car and you don't even know it.

~~~
tbyehl
> Its how many companies still make low-displacement turboed > engines sound
> good enough to back up their performance

Turbo'd engines inherently produce fun sounds and (most) manufactures silence
them with overly restrictive intakes and exhausts. Why fake it when they can
actually make it?

~~~
expertentipp
Probably because anything engine- and exhaust-related is heavily regulated,
while some „auxiliary noises” less so.

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jdonaldson
Harley will definitely need to do something acoustic for its e-bikes. Half the
reason people ride those is the sound they make.

I mean, this just sounds super annoying :
[https://youtu.be/vuhPZTrSmBw?t=20](https://youtu.be/vuhPZTrSmBw?t=20)

I can see engine noise design becoming a thing. Reminds me of that old game
"Full Throttle". To make the engine noise there they sampled a lion roar, a
bengal tiger, and a jet engine:
[https://youtu.be/rf9xqsmO9m4?t=107](https://youtu.be/rf9xqsmO9m4?t=107)

~~~
qbrass
They'll just make you say "potato" to start the bike, then keep playing it
back as you drive.

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dijit
This is news to me, I didn't know we _had_ to have engine noise and now I'm
sad that we have to have it at all. I was hoping highways of the future would
carry only the sound of tires raggedly rolling along the surface. That was my
interpretation of the promise of EVs

I don't buy the safety argument either really, additionally it's incredibly
wasteful. Part of the issue with ICE engines was that they were constantly
trying to reduce engine noise because if it's making too much noise/heat then
that's energy that's being wasted in transfer. Now we're emulating that?

I considered motorcycle engines to be excessive too, but people always
defended the ear-deafening sound as being "for safety" (when really, they just
liked making noise and having the vibrations rumble through their bodies)

~~~
Animats
_I didn 't know we_ had _to have engine noise._

Only at slow speeds, up to 19mph.[2] Above that, the external noisemaker is
supposed to turn off. It's so pedestrians will notice a car making a turn
through a crosswalk.

[2] [https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13651106/electric-car-
no...](https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13651106/electric-car-noise-nhtsa-
rule-blind-pedestrian-safety)

~~~
dingaling
An easier and quiter solution is to ban turns-on-red, as in most of Europe.

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pmontra
My ideal car is silent but I'm afraid that's impossible due to wheels rolling.
However with electric engines it could become almost silent inside.

~~~
ryandvm
A silent car is a bad idea unless you like running over people.

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smilekzs
On a tangent: Will it be better for safety if motor whine in a EV is amplified
(of course at an user-adjustable level) in similar ways? They've always
sounded so quiet to me I find myself more prone to driving too fast than I
wanted...

~~~
WorldMaker
That's included in what Jaguar are doing here. In this Fully Charged video you
can see the hosts' continued amusement and enjoyment of the in-car
acceleration noises:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jj_w1PfSqk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jj_w1PfSqk)

~~~
dwd
Did not know Robert Llewellyn (Kryten from Red Dwarf) was now a car reviewer.

There's a guy who would know a lot about sci-fi spaceship sounds.

Thanks for the link!

~~~
WorldMaker
Yeah, it's a great show. It's also fascinating because Robert is such an
accidental car reviewer. His previous podcast show was something closer to
Seinfeld's podcast show (before it was a Netflix series), where he'd ask
someone to ride with him in his car for a mini-interview and then maybe lunch.
Once he started doing the interviews in his Prius some of the shows ended up
being more about electric cars than anything else and Robert realized he had a
bit of a passion for the topic, leading to Fully Charged.

Along the way he picked up Johnny Smith as a co-host, who is a more
traditional "car geek", though also hugely exuberant for electric cars, by
first interviewing Johnny for his Flux Capacitor project [1] (Johnny rebuilt a
classic Enfield British electric car with modern electric car parts). Between
the two of them Fully Charged has definitely become one of the most
interesting and informative electric car shows in the world.

[1] [http://www.flux-capacitor.co.uk/](http://www.flux-capacitor.co.uk/)

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palakchokshi
Why not just emit the sound when going below a certain speed AND ONLY IF there
are pedestrians closer than a certain distance? That would be more expensive
for sure but doesn't cause unnecessary sound pollution.

~~~
dllu
> below a certain speed

Sure, easy thresholding on speedometer data. Gimme a few hours.

> ... and check if there are pedestrians closer than a certain distance

I'll need a research team and five years. [1]

[1] [https://xkcd.com/1425](https://xkcd.com/1425)

~~~
palakchokshi
That is genuinely funny!! Might be an accurate estimate too!

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Markoff
i still can't comprehend how can be all those noisy motorbikes legal, I am not
really interested to hear your loud motorbike, use headphones with motorbike
sound if you enjoy it so much, but don't bother rest of the people. pretty
sure they could be silenced to car volumes

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m0llusk
Quiet cars and robots that do your work for you are not threats. Too bad all
that sci-fi only prepared us for laser battles with aliens.

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expertentipp
As we are starting from redesigning the experience - why at low speeds instead
of sounds the cars wouldn't produce smells?

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ohpls
I'm a fan of the engage sound but I'd definitely like to hear the sound when
it's going slowly in real life.

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Theodores
In China some cities require cars that belch out pollution to have expensive
permits to use the roads. This has provided quite an incentive for people to
go electric as there is no permit to pay. Consequently there are places in
China where lots of people have already gone electric.

These Chinese market electric cars are not as fancy inside as your plush
Jaguar or Tesla, they have bits of hard plastic everywhere rather than an
exuberance of leather (or 'vegan leather'). The people that buy these cars
really like them as the comfort comes from the silence, not the novelty cup
holders/infotainment systems and other nonsense that motorists in the West
think they need these days.

They still have to sit in gridlock and they still have to give up a lot of
their day to the demands of the commute. From the glimpse into the future
afforded by what is going on in China I suspect that these fake car noise
things are not what the customer really wants. Tranquillity is much nicer than
gimmickry. It is as simple as that. Might as well get some work done if you
are a passenger in one of these cars or enjoy some quality time with your
social media apps on your phone. There is no need to get your inner nine year
old out, the cheap thrills of spaceship noises get boring if listened to every
day, the novelty wears off.

The other thing is that these affordable electric cars will be coming here
soon. Complete with hard plastic interiors. Imaginably there will be Trump
taxes and tariffs that make these cars expensive compared to a 'Chicken Tax'
SUV/truck, however, if there was to be free trade then these cars will be half
the price of these up-market Jaguar things. They might not have the 'ludicrous
mode' but who needs that if you are inching through bumper-to-bumper rush hour
traffic?

These affordable EVs might not have fake whooshing noises inside the cab, so
the question then becomes one of would you really want to pay for that? Why
would anyone pay $$$ for these funny noises that a cheap toy designed for a
nine year old could make?

Note that EU and other mandated exterior noises are for outside the passenger
compartment, not for in it.

If you had one of these cars and you could download an app that used your
phones sensors to play fake whooshing noises to make up for the absence of in-
built fakery, would you bother?

I suspect that within a generation or two people will reject the noise of the
internal combustion engine, even if V12 and turbocharged. It will be as
anachronistic as wanting to hear horse hoof clatter and the whip of a buggy
whip. But we are not there yet, hence the fakery.

~~~
ericd
Those Chinese cars are cheaper in part because they don't have to comply with
US safety regulations. As such, they can't be sold in the US without
significant reworking.

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whateveryou381
What nonsense! Congrats engineers who have nothing else better to do.

