
Vector is now called Riot - mklappstuhl
https://medium.com/@RiotChat/lets-riot-f5b0aa99dc8e#.3toozs7r6
======
pomfpomfpomf3
Vector (+Matrix) is kinda like self-hosted slack/discord with proper history
sync across all your devices, file uploads, nice UI, etc.

It's really good. I recommended it to 7 people and every single one liked it,
even got 5 of them to set up their own federated homeservers. We're thinking
about moving a ~60-people skype group there as well.

Only issue I had is Synapse hogging the CPU and getting laggy with a large
room (#matrix:matrix.org with its 4 thousand members). I'm using scaleway's 3
EUR/month Starter VC1S server for Synapse though. Hopefully it will get even
better with time.

~~~
kuschku
Or you could just use IRC with quassel + quassel-webserver, and get basically
all of the same, but with an actual open protocol. Which actually has support.

~~~
mxuribe
Actually matrix - the protocol upon which vector and now riot depend - is an
open protocol; reference here:
[http://matrix.org/docs/spec/](http://matrix.org/docs/spec/)

And then of course, there are the matrix bridges to IRC, etc. Admittedly
although i have been using vector clients AND have installed my own personal
synapse server, i have no experience using/supporting the various matrix
bridges, so can't speak to their quality.

That being said, if you've ever been curious about re-doing some aspects of
IRC for the better, you might want to take a look at matrix (the protocol),
and suggest improvements; we all stand to benefit from your (and the
community's) suggestions.

------
nerveband
What's this trend of websites making it hard to find screenshots of their app
off the bat? Should I really have to sign up just to see how your interface
functions/flows?

Also, the link to view the main site is tiny and easily forgettable. I think
the site could benefit from a stronger CTA that directs you to what I should
do.

~~~
amandine
yup screenshots will be added to the website.

But no need to signup to play with it :) Full guest access available! Come and
chat:
[https://riot.im/app/#/room/#riot:matrix.org](https://riot.im/app/#/room/#riot:matrix.org)

------
mxuribe
Great job riot crew/rioters!

I started playing around with vector (both web client and mobile app) a couple
of months ago, and really like it. I haven't tried the bridge stuff just yet,
but am excited to try, especially now that it should be easier. I even
installed my own personal server (synapse) for my family - again to kick the
tires and test stuff out. Now that you've re-branded and changed the name, you
should start thinking of neat taglines...here are few (admittedly silly ones)
to get started:

    
    
       - Riot: Come for the decentralized chat, stay for the community.  
       - Riot like its a true democracy.  
       - Riot: Think outside the box, act outside the norm, and chat outside the silos. 
       - Riot: Chat disruption for the matrix.   
          

Once again, kudos to the Riot (fka Vector) team for this launch/re-launch!!!

------
cantagi
> "Riot is more than a messaging app"

This said to me "Riot is just a messaging app" and I bounced. I'd recommend
changing that tagline to indicate briefly why a user might use Riot instead of
Slack or Whatsapp

~~~
qwertyuiop924
Riot is based on Matrix. If you scrolled down, it would tell you that it's got
strong crypto, you can run your own servers, it's got really good cross-
protocol bridges, and a ton of other stuff. And it's totally free, save the
cost of running your own server if you choose to do so.

~~~
kuschku
> it's got really good cross-protocol bridges

With that you mean "a worse IRC bridge than Slack"? Every user and dev of IRC
clients and servers I’ve talked to in the past weeks has only complained about
Matrix’ bridge.

~~~
Arathorn
interesting - what is the precise issue?

The main difference is that Matrix acts effectively as a bouncer, bouncing all
the different clients into IRC, rather than a bridge - unlike Slack's bridge
which is just a single bot.

We're aware that we haven't enabled membership list syncing into Matrix yet
from IRC (due to performance issues on synapse), but otherwise it should be
pretty good.

More fact, less FUD please? :)

~~~
kuschku
> interesting - what is the precise issue?

The most complaints are about not working private messages to Matrix users
(because the bridge doesn’t join people), about the bridge de-syncing from IRC
– and you suddenly having every matrix user thrice in the channel, and similar
issues.

General stability, ability to chat with Matrix users as if they were there
natively, etc.

------
zokier
First impressions:

\- Hmm... sounds a lot like Apache (née Google) Wave

\- Intro thingy has definite zombo.com vibe

(yes, I do realize that I'm getting old..)

On a more serious note, this could be really good concept if executed well.
Time will tell, I hope for the best.

~~~
qwertyuiop924
It's based on the Matrix protocol, which you may have heard of. So, yes, it
bears more than a little resemblance to Wave by way of IRC, and was built to
fix IRC's problems (lack of identity, poor netsplit tolerance, weak extension
support, etc.), and also provide strong capabilities for bridging between
protocols, so it doesn't wind up in an xkcd.com/927 type scenario.

~~~
kuschku
> weak extension support

Which definitely doesn’t apply to IRC

> lack of identity

Which the CAP Account extension allows to provide

> strong capabilities for bridging between protocols

And a Matrix-IRC bridge that constantly breaks, doesn’t properly handle
private messages, and which badly handles IRC extensions?

~~~
qwertyuiop924
IRC bots are a hack, and so much is provided by extensions, that there's no
guarantee that your client will support basic features.

CAP Account is just that: an extension. It's not inherent to the protocol, and
it shows.

And I didn't say the present bridges were perfect yet. The project is still a
ways from completion.

~~~
kuschku
> It's not inherent to the protocol, and it shows.

IRC extensions are supported by over 90% of clients already, and provide
exactly that.

In contrast to XMPP is IRC actually renewing itself in production.

[http://IRCv3.net/](http://IRCv3.net/)

EDIT: I can’t answer you right now (you are submitting too fast), so here is
my answer inline:

> I’ll show the list of extensions both supported by every modern client, and
> each of the networks you mentioned:

> freenode: sasl, account-notify, identify-msg, multi-prefix, extended-join

> efnet: multi-prefix

> quakenet: none

> Hackint: invite-notify, cap-notify, chghost, echo-message, userhost-in-
> names, account-notify, server-time, account-tag, multi-prefix, extended-
> join, away-notify, tls, sasl

> Snoonet: away-notify, sasl, account-notify, invite-notify, userhost-in-
> names, multi-prefix, extended-join

> Mozilla: sasl, userhost-in-names, multi-prefix

> EsperNet: away-notify, sasl, account-notify, multi-prefix, extended-join,
> tls

> Also, support for extensions by server:
> [http://ircv3.net/software/servers.html](http://ircv3.net/software/servers.html)

> And by client:
> [http://ircv3.net/software/clients.html](http://ircv3.net/software/clients.html)

> Any more questions?

~~~
qwertyuiop924
XMPP is radically different from IRC. And I don't know about you, but I don't
see a lot those extensions in use on actually servers (freenode, efnet,
quakenet, etc).

------
edem
Note that there is a _very_ popular game called League of Legends (played by
millions) and the company behind it is called Riot. Some people might confuse
your brand with their name.

~~~
genericpseudo
What's more, they have a chat app. Lawyers are going to be all over this.

~~~
mxuribe
I guess it could always be renamed to chat riot? ;-)

------
kmfrk
I know this is every Hacker News comment ever, but I genuinely don't have a
good idea of what the app is like after using the site and watching the video.
:/

------
dblooman
Why no picture of the actual app on the front page or the product video

------
lotyrin
Did they search for "Riot chat" first? There's another software company named
Riot that currently dominates results there despite chat being auxiliary in
their products. Hopefully they can shift that in their favor.

~~~
x1798DE
It seems like an improvement over "Vector", which is essentially un-
googleable, but seriously, this trend in giving projects single common english
word names is really annoying.

------
cryptolect
Interesting to see that "end-to-end crypto" is becoming a frontpage feature
for messaging apps.

------
nathancahill
#bottomlinks is missing a .container wrapper around .row, breaks layout on
desktop.

~~~
Arathorn
thanks - on the case

------
wmccullough
I have to say, if I was ever launching a product, I'd never even put a link
for my product here. Many people in this thread are acting like overgrown
toddlers.

Also, why is that some poor girl or guy can't use HN to link to a product
without ten million of these:

"This is neat, but have you heard of my best friends app that does this
already!?? _links to Github_ "

~~~
WaxProlix
You must be new here. There are entire communities that exist to mock the
selfimportance and pointless-achievement-obsession of HNers.

------
rekoros
Chat Services Timeline ([https://cdn.sameroom.io/chat-
timeline.pdf](https://cdn.sameroom.io/chat-timeline.pdf)) needs another
update.

------
colmvp
The audio in the product video seems to cut suddenly at the end.

~~~
amandine
yup will be fixed thanks

------
qwertyuiop924
that... is a way less appropriate name. But it works, I guess.

~~~
amandine
How so less appropriate? Lack of link to Matrix?

Going out of beta we had to decide on something which was really carrying what
the app is, we loved Vector but it has always been a code-name and a nice pun
on Matrix :)

Riot is more representative of what the app can do and its ambitions! Break
the barriers between apps, give the control back to the user to choose their
client, if they want to encrypt, host themselves, tune the notifs, the fact
it's open, built on the open ecosystem of Matrix and thus benefiting of all
the integrations and bridges built for Matrix.... Sounds pretty revolutionary
to me ;)

Worth noting that only the name changed: the app and the team and the openness
are still the same (modulo new features)!

~~~
mynewtb
People probably associate the word with people rioting in the street which is
a terrible link...

I don't get why you would rename Vector, feels like everyone recommending
'Vector' to friends and family has wasted their time.

~~~
qwertyuiop924
Also, Riot feels like a way more generic name...

------
ritonlajoie
Is end to end encryption + E2E encrypted groupchats ready yet ? that's the
only think I am interested in.

edit: ok it seems it's in BETA and only on the web app for now. Great guys,
keep it going and thanks !

------
nycmattw
Riot games wouldn't be too happy about this

------
hossbeast
So not a new product from the makers of League of Legends, then

~~~
skoczymroczny
And not related to Riot.js

------
petre
The web client looks almost exactly like IRC clients of old.

------
ians
Link to the server repo? Only seeing clients on GH.

~~~
amandine
Riot is just a client running with a Matrix server. Synapse is the one we
currently run [https://github.com/matrix-
org/synapse/](https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/)

Others are in development at [http://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-
now.html#servers](http://matrix.org/docs/projects/try-matrix-now.html#servers)
but they are all alpha at the moment.

------
ibab
Looks like this is a rebranding of the existing Vector app. Here's the blog
post from the creators: [https://medium.com/@RiotChat/lets-
riot-f5b0aa99dc8e#.3toozs7...](https://medium.com/@RiotChat/lets-
riot-f5b0aa99dc8e#.3toozs7r6)

~~~
qwertyuiop924
Indeed, it is exactly that. The old title of this post reflect that. I don't
know why it was changed.

~~~
sctb
It's important on HN that titles reflect only the content of the submission,
and since the homepage doesn't reference Vector, the title can't. We've just
updated the link to the blog post from the homepage, which informs us of the
rebranding.

~~~
qwertyuiop924
...That's a fairly ridiculous rule when it results in problems like this.

Have you considered revising it, or something?

------
sparkiegeek
Anyone else reminded of [https://xkcd.com/927/](https://xkcd.com/927/) ?

~~~
SamWhited
Absolutely; as much as the Matrix people claim they're not doing that by
"interoperating with other protocols" they don't seem to understand that it's
exactly what they're doing. The existing standards (XMPP) already interop in
exactly the same way (gateways/transports), so making another protocol instead
of improving the gateway / transport story on an existing one is just silly.

~~~
swsieber
Mmm... I wouldn't quite call it silly. The protocol does support better stuff
than XMPP. We're talking about single view notifications across multiple
clients and other goodies sometimes implemented by XMPP _plugins_. And quite
frankly from what I've heard the plugins are a pain. I do think a fresh break
is what's needed.

~~~
SamWhited
I don't disagree that XMPP has problems, like anything, but having multiple
federated protocols defeats part of the purpose of federation. Also, as far as
I can tell, Matrix just carried over most of the same problems because they
don't have 20 years of fixing edge cases and making sure things are scalable
and easy. I'm not sure why plugins would be a pain; I'm sure making
recommendations could be done better, but otherwise they're no more difficult
to implement than the same things in the Matrix core spec. A fresh break is
most cretainly not what's needed; we just need people to volunteer their time
and effort and help make things better, not make up new protocols to compete
with the old ones and make the messaging ecosystem more fragmented than it
already is.

~~~
qwertyuiop924
_sigh_

The Matrix developers have responded to this, explaining how Matrix is
different from XMPP, and why they chose to write their own protocol.

[https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-
differen...](https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-the-difference-
between-matrix-and-xmpp)

~~~
ajacksified
_sigh_

As parent said, XMPP covers all of these cases with plugins. The FAQ you link
says, over and over again, "the base setup doesn't cover these features, but
plugins do," and doesn't explain away writing improved plugins or XMPP spec
extensions. All I see is "buttt it'ss haaaaarrdddd".

> Rather than fighting over which open interoperable communication standard
> works the best, we should just collaborate and bridge everything together.

Absolutely _dripping_ with irony.

~~~
qwertyuiop924
_shrug_

Matrix actually has a good point about the spec extensions though: if your
spec is that minimal, nobody is going to be able to agree on what feature set
to support. As a Schemer, I can attest to that.

>Absolutely dripping with irony.

As is your comment. Matrix made a different set of design tradeoffs, and is a
legitimate protocol in its own right. And yet every time it pops up on HN,
people complain about how we should all just use XMPP.

Screw that. XMPP isn't perfect, and there is room for a chat protocol that
solves these problems in a different way.

~~~
chriswarbo
> Matrix actually has a good point about the spec extensions though: if your
> spec is that minimal, nobody is going to be able to agree on what feature
> set to support.

If that were true, nobody would agree on which Matrix features to support
either. What difference would it make if Matrix just-so-happened to be defined
as "XMPP, plus the following extensions..."?

> As a Schemer, I can attest to that.

It's one thing to say "the Scheme spec is too minimal; I'm going to make
Racket a hard dependency", it's quite another to say "the Scheme spec is too
minimal; I'm going to invent my own Python derivative"

~~~
qwertyuiop924
Actually, that's pretty much what Racket did: Racket isn't a superset of
Scheme, any more than Clojure is a superset of Common Lisp.

>If that were true, nobody would agree on which Matrix features to support
either. What difference would it make if Matrix just-so-happened to be defined
as "XMPP, plus the following extensions..."?

because some of Matrix's design decisions are fundamentally different from
those of XMPP. also, the reason why everybody agrees about Matrix features is
that they have no _choice_ : there's a far larger base standard than there is
for XMPP.

