

Reviving Lisp for smaller programmable machines - tankfeeder
http://picolisp.com/wiki/!download?-A300

======
reidrac
The paper refers to an ARM Cortex M4 with around a MB of flash and and few
hundreds of KB of RAM; well that's perhaps a MCU, but to be honest that's
quite powerful.

Micropython[1] targets that type of MCU, and even runs in a PIC16, so I'm not
impressed.

When I was working on my AVR based 8-bit microcomputer (32KB of flash, 2KB of
RAM) I did a lot of research regarding Lisp, and I gave up because it can't be
done.

1:
[https://github.com/micropython/micropython](https://github.com/micropython/micropython)

Edit: yes, I evaluated PicoLisp and Picobit (and many others).

~~~
Kaizyn
What machine was the first lisp implemented on? Surely it was a micro/pico
classed system by today's standards?

~~~
reidrac
Not sure, all _modern_ Lisp implementations require more RAM than I had
available.

The closest I've found was things like Lisp implementations for 8-bit
microcomputers of the 80s, eg.
[http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0008718](http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0008718)
(Lisp in a ZX Spectrum 48K).

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fizixer
> It is still the most favored programming language for artificial
> intelligence research.

Correction: It is still the most favored programming language for GOFAI
research.

It's pretty clear at this point (to me and to most active AI researchers) that
some massively parallel statistical system (like Deep Learning based neural
network, or Hawkins HTM, or something similar) will be a key ingredient,
probably the dominant paradigm, in achieving electronic general intelligence.
And lisp is pretty much absent in communities involved with that paradigm.

~~~
lispm
It's clear that 'statistical systems' are a hundred years or more away from
'achieving electronic general intelligence'.

'statistical systems', 'deep learning neural networks', ... are totally dumb.

Even commercial systems with massive money invested like Google Translate are
only showing how far away from 'intelligent' translations they are.

It does not matter if Lisp is not used in those communities for AI research.
The whole approach is limited and does not matter much in 'general
intelligence research'.

~~~
fizixer
Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of lisp family and learning racket myself
these days.

I'm just saying that a statement along the lines of 'lisp is an artificial
intelligence language' is really not valid anymore. You could do
metaprogramming, metalinguistics, etc, all you want, and have top-notch
productivity as a human programmer, but as it stands, these features have not
panned out in the realization of an electronic intelligence.

Massivel parallel statistical (or stochastic, pick your favorite term)
systems, despite all their limitations (at the moment), appear to me to be
headed in the right direction, simply because they attempt to mimic the
massively parallel and stochastic nature of brain circuitry. Is that the only
way? not necessarily, but the problem has stumped us for so many decades, and
has manifested itself to be so complex, that the uphill task of reverse
engineering the computational model of the only working example seems to be
"the lesser of all evils".

~~~
lispm
None of these 'massivel parallel statistical systems' mimic the brain in any
way.

------
nine_k
Earlier discussion of PicoLisp on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=962795](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=962795)

~~~
r0muald
Unfortunately the picolisp dot org website linked in that discussion is now a
parked domain.

------
tankfeeder
real mature lisp, number of 4clojure and rosetta tasks implemented. Wide OS
support, 64bit version implemented on its own assembler. Perfect as Forth.

~~~
dguaraglia
Mordin Solus?

~~~
bitwize
Had to be me! Someone else might have gotten it wrong.

------
davelnewton
Back when I did more embedded systems as a profession I used various Forths
and Schemes and it was far and away my preferred environment.

Those didn't run on a VM, though; while even the cheapest controllers are an
order of magnitude (or two) faster than what I had back then I do wonder about
the performance implications. For those types of systems portability wasn't
really a concern, the worst case was that we'd upgrade the processor to a
later family member, making the port almost always trivial.

Still, great to see.

------
Kototama
If you are interested in this, check also PicoBit:
[https://github.com/stamourv/picobit](https://github.com/stamourv/picobit)

------
eggy
Normal PicoLisp has a lot built-in: database, Prolog, web server, and lots
more at less than 600K for the OpenWRT distribution. The MiniPicoLisp
distribution, sans all the libraries, is only 73kB. It is a very well-thought
Lisp geared for decades for practical web and database applications. Check the
rosetta code entries for it to compare to other languages, simply amazing!

------
mike_ivanov
It would be nice to rename the 'de' form to 'le'. Imagine: (le delay () ...),
etc.

~~~
mahmud
Well, there _is_ a Le Lisp.

[http://christian.jullien.free.fr/lelisp/](http://christian.jullien.free.fr/lelisp/)

