
How America Can Rise Again - robg
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/201001/american-decline
======
csallen
Wow, this is a great read. It's long, but full of gems and interesting talking
points.

 _> > “I think it would be easy for common-sense Americans to draw up a list
of big things that would seem to demand concerted effort. Deficits are too
big. Health costs are unacceptable. Oil. And yet we have a political system
that seems to be constantly consumed with trivial things. We cannot seriously
grapple with the big issues. Tactics consume strategy._

Probably true, but the question is just how many common-sense Americans do we
have? I live in Boston now, but I'm originally from a suburban town in
Georgia. When I visit home, people commonly express to me their fears of
impending terrorist attacks, their theories about how drugs and atheism are
corrupting society, etc. Then these same people hop in their SUVs and drive
90MPH to the nearest McDonald's.

Average people don't like to worry about reasonable long-term problems. It's
just too boring. They'd rather fret over the remote possibility that some
Islamic extremists will fly planes into their homes. Thus, we spend trillions
of dollars and thousands of lives fighting in the desert while our economy
tanks.

 _> > the most worrisome symptom was the relative shortage of a jeremiad theme
under Presidents Clinton, George W. Bush, and now Obama. This he attributed to
Ronald Reagan, “who managed to equate criticism with anti-Americanism, and
render unintelligible bad news about America.”_

I can't count how many times I've heard, "If you don't like it then you can
find another country," in response to criticism of American government. Yuck.

~~~
SamAtt
Yes, because driving an SUV and eating at McDonalds are really where our
concern should be. The truth is you're no better than the anti-drug, terrorism
mongers.

Rush Limbaugh tells them to fear terrorists so they line up to do it while NPR
tells you not driving an SUV is bad so you line up to condemn it. Same sheep,
different Sheppard.

In the end their not realizing the low statistical chance of a terrorist
attack is just like you not realizing the scientific theory you've deified
might not be correct and if it's not we'll have done nothing to find out how
to actually deal with the problem.

~~~
GBKS
That's a pretty aggressive reply, almost to the level of flaming.

The point is that random theories of drugs, atheism and terrorism are made up
problems that average people can't do anything about. Discussing security is
important and being aware of potential threads is necessary and important, but
to a limit.

Taking care of the environment, eating healthy, saving money, improving things
in your surroundings are things you can do to improve your life and your
community.

The sheep/shepherd argument is too simplistic and while it's something to
think about, it was formulated in a way that it stops the conversation,
instead of moving it forward.

------
yannis
The United States needs to learn to function as one power in a complex system
that it can neither escape nor dominate. It also needs to view other nations
successes in pulling their citizens out of poverty not as a threat but as an
opportunity and it needs to ask a lot of questions.

    
    
        - Why are we in Afghanistan, Iraq?
        - What we learned from Vietnam?
        - Why is the Palestinian problem not solved?
        - How can we stop large oscillations in our Economies?
        - Why are our friends trusting us less?
        - Why is our infrastructure aging?
        - Why did we export manufacturing to cheaper labor overseas and not imported
           the labor?
        - How much of our large Service Industry can go the way manufacturing did?
        - Why is Health Services and Insurance so expensive?
    

I can fill a few pages with questions. America certainly has the brains to
answer those questions, but not the will to implement the answers.

~~~
sid-
"- Why did we export manufacturing to cheaper labor overseas and not imported
the labor?"

That is a very interesting suggestion. But how would we get rid of minimum
wage,health care costs,unions,cost of living to actually lower the cost ?
Other countries have an advantage as the minimum wage is lesser and human
rights activists are not as vocal. Maybe if people think more deeply about it
they will have a solution.

------
brc
While there are some interested points about the national psyche, to me, you
just can't ignore the deficit problem. Endlessly spending more money than you
ean will eventually cause problems, whether you're an individual, business or
government. I don't know if the problem will be this year or in 50 years, but
something has to give somewhere along the line.

~~~
sethg
If the deficit is spent on infrastructure improvements that support greater
prosperity in the private sector, then in the long run the country’s tax base
expands and that debt can be paid off.

(On the one hand, in theory, if the people buying our debt are _convinced_
that the government is using the borrowed money for that purpose, then they
won’t bid our interest rates into the stratosphere as happened with Argentina
et al. On the other hand, I’m not 100% sure how well that theory applies here,
because a lot of the national debt-holders are foreign institutions that may
be making geo-strategic calculations as well as profit-making calculations. On
the other other hand, if our economy goes tits-up it’s not going to be good
news for China, either.)

~~~
InclinedPlane
_If the deficit is spent on infrastructure improvements..._

Sure, if. Is it being spent that way? Not even remotely.

------
mynameishere
So, we can "rise again" by fixing some nit-picky things like filling potholes
and giving California (a bankrupt entity) more US Representatives. Thanks for
the tips. Actually, the roads around where I live are pretty good.

 _the absolute pillars of American strength: continued openness to
immigration, and a continued concentration of universities that people around
the world want to attend._

Whatever you think of immigration, there's really a logical problem with the
above thought. America is a place that consists of people, who are solely
responsible for America's greatness...NOT theoretical future inflows of other
people. His assertion can't be tested. It's a guess, no different than saying:
"My upcoming policy of betting red on the roulette wheel is the source of my
wealth. Because it worked before."

China and India are the countries on the ascendancy right now [1] and they are
not rapidly replacing themselves with other nations, and would probably not
appreciate the suggestion that doing so would be the "pillar" of their
strength. This writer, of course, had to say it because it's ideologically
required thinking.

[1] The US's ascendancy can be roughly marked from 1920 to 1965, a period of
very low immigration.

~~~
ajross
Just to pick on one point: what conceivable moral logic leads one to choose
democratic representation based on the financial health of their existing
government? I just can't see where that comes from. What's next: people with
net credit debt are worth 3/5 of a non-slave?

~~~
catzaa
> Just to pick on one point: what conceivable moral logic leads one to choose
> democratic representation based on the financial health of their existing
> government?

Wasn't the idea to give each state to senators so that populous states do not
encroach on less populous states?

If California gets many senators, they will surely vote to get federal money
to fix their deficit.

------
ippisl
While the article gives you the feeling of a very in depth article, it looks
at certain very important things in a very shallow way, and in the end doesn't
offer much.

The article forgot technology.Technology plays a huge role in the economic
changes affecting America, and the world. It enables shifting jobs around the
world, automating jobs , and driving rapid change everywhere.It seems that
these abilities would be only getting stronger in the future.

It also focused strongly on the value of america's world leading education
sector as an economic engine. But the fact of the matter is , that most
workers are average, and in order to replace them , china and india's workers
might be just good enough.

------
sutro
Saw another similar article recently:
[http://www.newgeography.com/content/001296-dont-give-up-
on-t...](http://www.newgeography.com/content/001296-dont-give-up-on-the-us).

------
rmason
America's been failed by its leaders. It isn't a partisan thing because the
problem has been with both parties.

The assasinations, riots and corruption at the highest levels in the sixties
and early seventies tore at the very fabric of our country.

But we found great leadership and came back. We will do it again, stronger
than before.

------
steveplace
Contrarian reads such as this lead me to believe that we've already made the
turn.

