
Harvard-Stanford admissions hoax becomes international scandal - ilamont
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/harvard-stanford-admissions-hoax-becomes-international-scandal/2015/06/18/4abac970-156a-11e5-89f3-61410da94eb1_story.html?postshare=7531434930583502
======
Pilfer
This scandal blew up because one of her classmates posted a lengthy rant about
her lies on a /r/askreddit thread. The post was widely shared on Korean media
and was eventually picked up in the states, as you can see from the original
link.

For closure, it appears school officials met with her and her parents and
decided on expelling her.

The classmate deleted the post shortly afterward, but you can read a copy of
it below.

[Archived Post] - [https://archive.is/pYQeg](https://archive.is/pYQeg)

[Original Post] -
[http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/395g6c/what_is_th...](http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/395g6c/what_is_the_current_drama_going_on_with_your/cs0nm9t)

[Korean coverage, including forged admission letters] -
[http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2015/06/12/2015...](http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2015/06/12/2015061201525.html)

~~~
TheGunner
I found the original post entirely depressing and sad. I could never imagine
putting my own children through the level of stress that would cause them to
do this. I am glad to read the fathers reaction in that last link

"In a press release later on Friday morning, Sara's father, an executive at
global online gaming company Nexon, apologized for causing a stir with the
fabrication. "I'm responsible for all the mistakes and sorry not to have taken
better care of this poor kid," he said. He promised to look after her better
since she apparently suffered from extreme stress due to academic pressures.
He allegedly had no idea that the story was false."

~~~
argumentum
It's often the kids who put themselves through this pressure. I can't speak
for all families, but I went to a Whitney HS, a southern california version of
TJ, and the _peer pressure_ is quite a lot stronger than what most parents say
or do.

This isn't helped by an admissions process that seems to penalize Asian
Americans due to their ethnicity.

------
beedogs
> “We celebrate the accomplishment of students who get into all eight Ivies,”
> said Brandon Kosatka, TJ’s director of student services. “That’s the bar,
> and our kids are shooting for that. They don’t like to be the second-best.
> If that’s the bar, then, yes, that creates anxiety for them.”

Jesus. That's borderline child abuse. These people understand their children
can only go to one of those eight schools at a time, right?

~~~
s_q_b
As far as I'm concerned, it's not borderline. All five members of my immediate
family attended various so-called tier 1 schools. Never once was I made to
feel that an Ivy League admission was a required or expected achievement.

As for my time at such a school, I will say this. There are certainly more
opportunities, but the average university is so brimming with amazing
opportunities that the limiting factor is motivation, not quality of the
institution. I suppose the old maxim, "You get out what you put in," applies
here.

~~~
akhilcacharya
You're correct on the last part, but let's be honest for a second - for the HN
crowd, I don't think the average school has the opportunities "we" want.

~~~
jsutton
And what are the opportunities "we" want that aren't available at your average
university?

~~~
akhilcacharya
Hackathons, easy access to industry. cutting edge and relevant research
opportunities, motivated peer group with similar interests, etc.

~~~
s_q_b
My point was primarily that there isn't a huge gulf between an applicant's #1
school and #5 school. What I can find at Harvard/Yale/Princeton can mostly be
found at UCLA or even major state schools.

This pressuring your kids with these expectations is crazy, because for even
the best students, the Ivy admissions process is a crapshoot. And perhaps
alleviating some of the pressure could even lead to increased performance due
to lower stress levels.

------
maaaats
US university admission is so weird, I think. Where I'm from, the only thing
that counts is your grades. No subjective letter, having to know important
people for letter of recommendation, no need to force yourself to play an
instrument, do charity work, play a sport etc. without actually wanting to do
it.

What are the pro's of doing it this way?

~~~
howlingfantods
I studied at Harvard some years ago and I wholeheartedly support the holistic
admissions process. Good grades are a great predictor of your ability to get
good grades, not much more than that.

As a nerdy Asian, if 50% of my classmates were nerdy Asians, my experience
would have been much less fulfilling. Much of the education at college comes
from the friends you meet along the way so a diverse, multifaceted class is an
invaluable part of the experience. I have a friend who was an armed guerrilla
against Iran and another friend who was forced into exile in Egypt after a
coup in Sudan. These are the perspectives that expand a young 18-year-old's
worldview. Both of them had a SAT score much lower than mine, but I would
argue they deserved their spots at Harvard more than I did.

~~~
argumentum
Why do you presume Asians are any more nerdy than others? It's one thing to be
in favor of diversity of experience (it's great that you met such interesting
people) and quite another thing to assume that Asian ethnicities are less
likely to contribute such experiences to the university.

That second thing is called racism. (not saying you are racist, but your
argument certainly justifies racism)

~~~
howlingfantods
I wouldn't say I'm presuming Asians are nerdier. Since I'm a nerdy Asian, I
can only speak to the type of people I know. What I meant is: "if I were in
school with only people who were like myself."

~~~
argumentum
So then, perhaps you'd want to replace

"As a nerdy Asian, if 50% of my classmates were nerdy Asians,"

with

"As a nerd, if 50% of my classmates were nerds,"

------
ble
Hah. I went to TJ and, at a gathering with a few other high school classmates,
I bemoaned how unhealthy I thought the atmosphere was there. I'm not saying it
was disastrous when we went there, but it was a divorced-from-reality, barely-
visible-high-pressure environment. Going to a prestigious, competitive state
school was seen by several of my classmates as "failing" because it wasn't as
good as going to an Ivy or another high profile institution.

An environment made up entirely of kids who are accustomed to being the
smartest student in the class is going to produce some very unpleasant results
under high pressure. I wonder how the counseling team approaches the problem.

~~~
rayiner
When were you there? I attended from 1998-2002, and it was a pretty collegial
place back then. Very little competitive pressure from the teachers or
administration, no class ranking, etc. Lots of self-imposed consternation
about getting into top colleges, but that usually didn't bubble up into the
social interactions.

------
chrisBob
The article quotes a student complaining about the pressure for
extracurricular activities, but I think this is a good case in favor of
sports:

Do you know a runner? They have experienced failure and lost races.

This is an important lesson that a lot of kids seem to be missing, especially
at these elite high schools. Furthermore, each Ivy will only accept so many
students each year from TJ or Andover Academy, so a lot of high school
students would be better off if they worked hard at a public school,
especially one in an underrepresented area.

~~~
walshemj
In the uk there are reports of kids from public schools going to a good state
6th form for the last two years of school to help game the admissions process.

------
aaron695
Underage high School girl lies <==> international scandal.

Seriously people.

At best this is, stupid media gets fooled by a troubled girl at a time many
teens are at a tough time in their lives. Classmates not as stupid.

~~~
dagw
Technically this is stupid media gets temporarily fooled by a troubled girl
respected parents. The girl wasn't doing this on her own.

------
option_greek
"Another senior, who designed the electronics system for a 6-foot, 120-pound
robot capable of lifting crates"

Would be very interested to see some video of this in action. Couldn't seem to
find it any where.

~~~
andars
That would be this years FRC challenge. I'm sure there are videos of th
competitions online.

------
mrcactu5
Getting into all 8 Ivies -- what a shallow way to measure intelligence.

~~~
walshemj
Its how they market them selves to parents

------
akhilcacharya
These sorts of attitudes are so alien to me. At my high school it was
impressive to get into UNC (we were in state)

------
peter303
Upper class families in some Asian countries are fanatical about getting into
the worlds best colleges. Anyone who has attended such a college would
immediately recognize this story as a hoax. But there are some extreme things
such families do that are not that far off from this.

