
India announces plan to connect 600k villages with optical fiber in 1000 days - ra7
https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/independece-day-2020-speech-next-1000-days-6-lakh-villages-optical-fibre-pm-modi-6555511/
======
spellunkskunk
Catering to domestic demand rather than to china's demands
[https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/china-extends-
an...](https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/china-extends-anti-dumping-
tariff-indian-optical-fiber-72344654)

~~~
blueblisters
I am actually surprised that India has a big and competitive enough optical
fiber industry that exports to China for China to raise punitive anti-dumping
tariffs.

~~~
manquer
Fibre is relatively low tech compared to Fabs and chip industry. Perhaps it is
a function of raw material costs ?

While compared to western standards Chinese labour remains cheap, it is
expensive compared to East Asia and India who are poorer than China and have
less purchasing power.

------
Brajeshwar
Wow! This is really good.

Few days back my brother-in-law happily announced that Jio Fiber has reached
their homes and that I can visit my home-town and stay longer without swearing
about the Internet "availability". For context, I'm from Manipur[1], a pretty
remote corner at the extreme north-east corner of India.

Earlier, I was consulting with a friend who owns a part of an ISP there. I
wanted to pull a fiber all the way home and setup station there I can
replicate work (and school for the kids) and actually be able to work from
there. Now, I've asked my brother-in-law to get any plan possible. When I go
back there, I'm going to just carry a whole bunch of equipments to wire and
wi-fi the whole home. The homes there are really massive and few stories, so
this is going to be fun.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipur)

~~~
kumarharsh
That's so heartening to hear! I had friends from Assam who were similarly
disappointed by the broadband coverage there, and had planned doing something
about it, but the problem was too hard to solve unless you had deep pockets.
It's great to see Government doing it instead of leaving it up to private
operators.

Additionally, the recent announcement of laying Fiber cables to the Andaman
and Nicobar islands is another good thing - I don't remember anybody talking
any policy related points about the remote islands ever. Note: Andaman is far
from Indian mainland (1200km) - about as far as New York is from Georgia, and
it's closer to Myanmar (100km). It has a paltry population of only 300,000,
spread across scores of islands.

------
setum
While at it, they should also put up a pole every village (like electric pole)
with high range WiFi router. This will remove the last 100m connectivity
hurdle and everyone with a WiFi device can get a taste of high speed internet.

~~~
rayanimesh
Disclaimer : I live in a village in Rajasthan.

People will still the WiFi device and sell it for pennies. They don't spare
road light in many parts of cities.

~~~
p1esk
Would 5g service be a better solution?

~~~
gpm
Everyone has wifi enabled hardware to use as a client, no one has 5g hardware,
so no?

~~~
p1esk
In 1000 days everyone will have 5g service on their phones

~~~
gpm
Many people in first world countries will. Some people in first world
countries and probably most in Indian villages don't even have 4g yet. So I
doubt that in 1000 days they will have 5g when we are barely producing any
devices today with that capability.

~~~
p1esk
The reason they don't have 4g now is mostly because there's no 4g service, not
because people can't afford 4g enabled phones. I'm pretty sure by now 4g
phones are just as cheap as 3g phones.

~~~
gpm
New phones, yes. But many people don't have new phones. Especially in poorer
places.

1000 days if substantially shorter than the lifecycle of phone models. New
cheap phones today don't have 5g, you see the timing issue?

~~~
p1esk
How do they access internet right now? Whatever that is, it will continue to
be available. Those who want something better will upgrade their phones.

------
nix23
Please India, if you're done with that, can you come to Germany?

~~~
koevet
Was going to say something along this line. Is disheartening to live in a
first world country (center of Berlin) that happens to have the strongest
economy in the Euro zone, and have such a slow internet that I can't even
watch Netflix after 8 Pm (and having to pay 50 euro/month)

~~~
ChuckNorris89
_laughs in gigabit fiber for 10 euro /month in Eastern Europe_

The reason why you're in this situation is that under Helmut Kohl, despite
advice from experts to use fiber, the German government wired the whole
country with copper instead because the ministry of infrastructure at the time
had stocks in the copper business.[1]

And also, in present times, German politicians still don't see the value _the
internet_ brings to a country so it was never a priority. Some even have
employees print them pages off the internet so they can read them in paper
form.

For them, the backbone of German economy is IG Metall factories so they never
understand how could one ever make money with the internet.

As proof of this all one has to do is look at the DAX and see that none of the
companies there bar SAP are software companies.

I see this as a mentality problem in German leadership, as it's only two big
fintech companies, Wirecard and N26, are bombing hard while competitors from
Sweden and the UK like Klarna and Monzo are flourishing. And I'm sure the
engineers in Germany are just as good as the ones in Sweden and the UK.

[1][https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutschland-warum-
unsere...](https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutschland-warum-unsere-
handynetze-so-schlecht-sind-kolumne-a-1297362.html)

~~~
lioeters
> ..under Helmut Kohl, despite advice from experts to use fiber, the German
> government wired the whole country with copper instead because the ministry
> of infrastructure at the time had stocks in the copper business.

Such abuse of public position ought to be a criminal offence - they profited
at the cost of setting the country back a decade (or more!) in terms of modern
infrastructure.

Ubiquitous, fast, and maybe even free Internet - it seems logical and obvious
that this is the ideal we should be moving towards, to benefit the whole
country/world and future generations.

~~~
ArmandGrillet
Just to name and shame, Christian Schwarz-Schilling was the minister of
infrastructure at the time. Despite his actions and reputation, he never had
to go to court and seems to be currently enjoying retirement.

------
puranjay
As an Indian, I've heard countless plans like these every few years. I'll get
excited when it actually happens.

~~~
shripadk
> As an Indian, I've heard countless plans like these every few years

I agree the previous Governments never did act on their plans. I find a lot of
difference between them and the current Government when it comes to desire,
commitment and execution. Take Highways for instance. Rapid construction
across the country. In 2014, when Modi came to power, it was 4260 km per year.
In 2018, 10800 kms of highways were built. Almost 2.5x. In 2020 the Government
has set a target of 60 km per day which is 21900 km which it is already on the
path of achieving. One thing cannot be denied is that this Government is
pushing all boundaries possible to get India on track. Yes it fails in some
(demonetization) and wins in most but at least there is no policy paralysis
like in the UPA era.

~~~
actuator
I have backpacked through one of the regions where some of the construction
you are talking about is going on. In one of the Himalayan states, one of
their ambitious highway projects has caused destruction with little benefit to
the local populace and far negative consequences to the terrain and
environment. Pursuing development is good but it shouldn't come at the cost of
destroying your ecology and environment, specially the fragile ones.

So I would hold my judgement on the effectiveness and vision of the current
establishment.

I tried searching for the issues once I came back but I was surprised how less
effort was given in the country's English media to cover this. With the amount
of publications that seemingly are there, I would have assumed this to be
covered extensively and researched.

I would add that I am not against the improvement in connectivity, the
Himalayas are beautiful. There are far better ways to improve connectivity
which keeps the beauty of the areas preserved. It would have taken more time
and money but the dividends would have been more.

I will leave some blog posts I found on the issue for reference; hopefully
someone acts on this horrific "development" going on.

[1] [https://indiaclimatedialogue.net/2018/09/24/highway-
project-...](https://indiaclimatedialogue.net/2018/09/24/highway-project-
poses-grave-danger-to-garhwal-himalayas/)
[2][https://sandrp.in/2020/02/24/uttarakhand-road-widening-
work-...](https://sandrp.in/2020/02/24/uttarakhand-road-widening-work-in-
almora-damages-traditional-water-sources/) [3] [https://www.business-
standard.com/article/current-affairs/sc...](https://www.business-
standard.com/article/current-affairs/scorched-earth-uttarakhand-s-road-to-
wildlife-destruction-117041800034_1.html)

~~~
haltingproblem
These kinds of comments show the paradox of the modern urban professional. The
ones who have reached the top 1-2% in terms of educational achievement and
career prospects.

They live in cities or remote locations with full amenities - car, electricity
and internet, smartphones, laptops. They use apps powered by the global
internet and consume from the global supply chain. And they hike in the
Himalayas with their DSLR, patagonia/north face gear and post the snaps to
instagram.

They just want to freeze the state of development, fossil fuel usage, roads,
etc. Because they see no benefit to themselves of any more of those things.
Everything is swell for them.

This denies the benefits of development to the hundreds of millions who still
need access to education, health care and economic opportunities.

There is _NO_ country in the world that has reached first world status without
going through development. I am sure you think there is a way but it is just
one way to deny the poor of benefits. There is _no_ widespread environmental
destruction. Every measure forest cover, pollution, habitat has improved over
the past decades.

Just because things are great for you is not an excuse to unintentionally wage
class warfare.

~~~
actuator
Wow, that's a loaded comment that makes a lot of assumptions about me.

I am not against connectivity or improving the life of people there, a lot of
these areas are already connected by metalled road. What was happening when I
was traveling there was widening of the roads indiscriminately, if you talk to
people there or even read some of the articles I have linked, there isn't much
benefit that local people are seeing because of this. There are far more
important things that would have been beneficial to people living there like
education, healthcare and some of them can be improved drastically with
something as simple as improving LTE coverage.

All I am saying is, I would have preferred to see the myriad of problems
associated with the project addressed, I am not saying do not build, but build
sustainably.

About the metrics you think that haven't degraded, I don't have sources ready
on all of them but I just looked up forest cover and one of the most green
regions is now covered with plantations a lot. [1] Plantation cover != Forest
cover.

Lastly, just because I am wearing Patagonia/North Face because of their
environmental commitments, doesn't mean I expect everyone else to do the same.
There are other paths, which might not be perfect but will be better, it
doesn't hurt to raise issues when you see them so you can explore those paths.
The choice is not binary.

[1]
[https://bucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.am...](https://bucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/d586f57c-6ef3-42e5-a68c-031b10d950b9_586x631.png)

~~~
haltingproblem
Sentences like this betray your intent:

 _What was happening when I was traveling there was widening of the roads
indiscriminately_

Surely you know better than the urban planners and the engineers who are
widening roads _indiscriminately_.

or

 _there isn 't much benefit that local people are seeing because of this._

How long did you wait before you polled the locals for benefits? What timeline
in your opinion is valid for benefits to accrue - 1 year? 3 years?

Apologies if it came across as harsh but I do appreciate your comment. I used
your comment as a template for the general environmentalist anathema in third-
world nations like India against development which disproportionately helps
the poor. The upper socio-economic classes _everywhere_ are against further
development be it the home owners of SF who rail against high density housing,
the mansion owners of nantucket who hate off shore windmills, the woke classes
of Mumbai who protest the cutting of _300_ trees to stop development of a
metro line which will disproportionately help the mass-transit commuting poor.

Sustainability - that vague bogey of the anti-development movement. Oft used
but never defined.

I am not too different than you. I would love the earth to be pristine so when
I visit distant locales I can enjoy untouched panoramas. I just value the
quality of the life of the locals more than my view.

~~~
actuator
> Surely you know better than the urban planners and the engineers who are
> widening roads indiscriminately.

When I used the word indiscriminate, there was a specific purpose to it. It
doesn't have to be that the engineers or planners don't know the better way to
do it. It just might be that they choose to pick the cheapest way they can get
away with, or do you deny that in developing countries corruption is not high
and implementation of laws is not lax.

I have specifically mentioned examples in one of the other replies of things
that they have done _indiscriminately_. Filling up narrow valleys with debris
or destroying vegetation below the road slope by just leaving the debris there
certainly isn't smart; nor is cutting slopes in the cheapest way to leave them
prone to landslides.

There are ways to activley manage it which have been employed throughout the
world.

As I said, even when I had searched in the past the media coverage on this was
poor which is surprising. But here are few links which discuss the issues I
mentioned in the comment.

\- [https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2020/jul/21/char-
dha...](https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2020/jul/21/char-dham-
pariyojana-hpc-report-says-socio-cultural-concern-innovative-thought-largely-
missing-2172741.amp)

\- [https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/environment/char-dham-
na...](https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/environment/char-dham-national-
highway-has-cost-uttarakhand-its-ecological-balance-62661)

~~~
haltingproblem
You are playing whack-a-mole here.

 _It just might be that they choose to pick the cheapest way they can get away
with_ ,

Of course you know the most optimal trade-off between costs, quality and the
environment not folks who are building thousands of miles of roadway every
year.

 _do you deny that in developing countries corruption is not high and
implementation of laws is not lax._

Straw man. There is corruption everywhere even in the west. Because there is
corruption, nothing should happen.

 _Filling up narrow valleys with debris or destroying vegetation below the
road slope by just leaving the debris there certainly isn 't smart; nor is
cutting slopes in the cheapest way to leave them prone to landslides._

You know a better way? How do you know dumping it in the valley below is worse
than carting it off and dumping it in a remote valley. Do you have data
showing where it should be dumped? Have you talked to any transportation
engineers. Let me allow that it is worse and causes landslides. Are those
landslides worse than having wider safer roads?

Your arguments have too much innuendo, conjecture because you have an defacto
ideological position. You are fundamentally opposed to all development as it
no longer serves your needs.

Just ponder that.

~~~
actuator
It seems futile to discuss this with you. All you have done is, counter
arguments with counter questions while never addressing the issue. I chose to
reply once hoping that it would be constructive, but it isn't.

If all both of us are going to do is counter questions with more questions and
just refute the arguments entirely by questioning the other person's knowledge
and research boosted by our own biases just to prove oneself right, the whole
discussion becomes a non sequitur. For instance, you don't even know the
dumping this is something an actual engineer working there told me about, the
decision wasn't upto him, alas. You see, while backpacking one thing I make a
point to do is to talk to locals.

Additionally, the landslide vs road widening argument. Things are not binary
in real world, it is not like one has to exist at the cost of other.

While accusing me for having an ideological position which you know nothing
about, you are conveniently ignoring yours. In no way, I have opposed
"development" anywhere in the thread, it should definitely be at balance with
other things and definitely not indiscriminate like I saw.

------
ramshanker
As per article "1.5 lakh gram panchayats in the country have been connected
with optical fiber". Each gram panchayats consists from 1 to 10 village.
Average may be 4. So now we are talking about branching out the Gram-Panchayat
connection to all villages under it's adminnistration. Totally doable. Of
course there are still some remote villages/panchayats without Fiber.

2nd important point is monetization model, because these thing require
maintenance. Private telecom players have mostly given up to participate in
this Bharat-Net connectivity scheme. They seem to prefer their own Microwave
backhaul for village cluster. That leaves National Telecom Operator BSNL which
is not really in good financial shape.

Still I believe this is doable.

------
newyankee
That is very ambitious but i hope this can mean open access education can be
delivered to the poorest of poor. Having 2-4 LED TVs with latest educational
content directly streamed. The overworked teachers should become guides to the
students.

~~~
4silvertooth
India has dedicated satellites for distance education called EDUSAT.

~~~
aitchnyu
I tried Googling about programs delivered by Edusat but got no luck.

------
onetimemanytime
Have seen about 10 miles done in a day. How? By piggybacking on already lined
10Kv lines. About 1 meter under the lines put a galvanized steel bracket on
each concrete pole and go. 3 people in one day laid 10 miles. If they had to
put their own poles would have delayed but by a little. So it's doable and in
countries like India, labor is virtually free and rules /permits are
nonexistent so costs are low.

Edit: India will become a superpower. It will not happen in a day or 1000 but
with our (US) help they will, and will keep China in check.

~~~
xmprt
Step 1 is to stop emigrating from India to the US the moment you get a chance.
I'm guilty of it as are many of my friends but it doesn't help develop a
country when their brightest minds don't have enough faith to stay.

~~~
onetimemanytime
They will come back with lots of knowledge, money and connections.

------
john4534243
Current Prime Minister Modi was in the ad of "Jio" company which was aired in
national tv channels after he got elected. That company funds the BJP party to
which Modi belong. By giving the money to "Jio", the money is being routed
back to the party in the form of donations. By the way in India the party does
not have legal obligation to show where the money comes from or how much. The
BJP party is just a product of religious group called the RSS which wants the
society to be based on strict vedic hindu religion. Vedas advocate the society
to be 4 level hierarchy with priest's (Brahmins) at the top of the hierarchy
and believe that education must be restricted only to the priest's for the
good of the society. Not surprisingly majority of RSS members at the top level
are Brahmins. India was a vedic society prior to the british colonization.
This is the reason majority of the indians are 1st generation college
graduates even though they were rich and owned a lot of land.

------
m3kw9
I believe they can do it. The did something simular with toilets

------
bobbydreamer
Jio needs cables from one switching centre(
[https://simplanations.substack.com/p/9-what-makes-jio-
differ...](https://simplanations.substack.com/p/9-what-makes-jio-different) )
to another. Govt being a team player in country's development takes care of
that for Jio. It's simple as that.

------
ginthem
Current government only wants more people to have internet, so that they can
spread their toxic religious nationalist propoganda. Also spreading more
misinformation. Mob lynchings are going to increase with all the WhatsApp news
riling up the Go-Rakshaks (cow defenders). And more.

All the misinformation and lies to help the goverment win another term.

~~~
guiltygods
Yes. You missed the agenda when every village was connected had a phone and
the Govt laid down infrastructure for it or when they erected TV towers across
length and breadth of country in 80s.

------
yadavrohit
It should have been done a long ago. Wasn't the first five years enough for
the Modi govt. Undoubtedly, Modi has done a numerous good things, he failed to
ensure a better internet connectivity. Had it not been Jio we would have been
in a big trouble.

------
mandeepj
It's just a political rally shallow statement. Nothing else.

Few years ago, there was a big hoopla about making India superpower by 2020.
We all know where that is.

~~~
4silvertooth
Aim at the stars, atleast you will land on the moon. That's how current govt
things goes.

------
acd
I think fiber would be the best option for speed.

~~~
f311a
I think it’s not about speed, it’s about distance that fiber can handle.

~~~
tumblewit
That and the fact that the docsis networks here are so congested that it would
make Internet quite unusable if strained (I use docsis and it’s a mess
currently due to increased demand). I also think fiber has become cheap enough
(the cabling) that the cost can be justified. Installing DSL and Docsis is not
worth it given the high demand and future upgrades possible with fiber ...

------
thunderbong
Most of the comments here are just opinions without any citations.

Also, in many of the comments there seems to be a seamless conflation between
business and government.

