
You're Overthinking It - mpakes
http://engineering.gomiso.com/2012/02/01/youre-overthinking-it/
======
josscrowcroft
Upvoted just for this absolute gem:

 _[...] it also depends on where you are on Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. The
lower on the pyramid your product is, the crappier it can look. If your
product is core to helping people make money, pirate movies, or sell your
useless couch, you don’t need a designer. But if you’re high on the pyramid,
ugly/clunky UI makes it impossible to for people to see your vision._

Never heard this advice in reference to Maslow, but it's truth! I should print
this up on cards and give it to a load of my tech and designer friends.

The entire _"It's like [Craigslist/Amazon/eBay]... but with a beautiful
design/UI!"_ fallacy falls to its knees with this paragraph.

~~~
MaxGabriel
I think that design could still be really helpful if its helps achieve one of
those core 'needs.' Craigslist leaves alot to be desired when searching for
apartments (my only experience with it) compared to Hipmunk's hotel search,
which plots the results on a map with color/size coding.

~~~
starwed
I recently discovered padmapper while apt hunting, and it's a godsend. It
scrapes craigslist for data and posts it to a map.

The killer feature is obviously to be able to look at a region and see what's
available, but the filtering options are also way easier to use than
craigslist's rather pathetic interface.

~~~
PakG1
This is funny because housingmaps, mapping craigslist listings to google maps
was the original mashup. The guy went and worked for google because he said he
didn't think there were any good barriers to entry to run the idea as a
business.

------
dy
The advice in this article is dangerous for finding success and profit as an
entrepreneur if your only knowledge relates to the needs of a developer.
Developers are an infamously hard bunch of people to sell products to; as
developers, I'm sure we've had all these thoughts:

\- this is cool, but I could build something better (how many 37signal open
source clones are there)

\- this is cool, but way too expensive (Github complaints)

\- this is cool, but let me use Google AdWords to get free upgrades (DropBox)

\- this writing is great, but I'm blocking all the ads on the page
(daringfireball)

Another problem is that when developers decide to do their own startup, the
only domain they really understand is software development.

There are millions of people who have problems who can't code - building
another bug tracker, productivity tool, email management app, GTD widget might
be fun, but the economy of real "business" software that's out there is far
larger and more lucrative.

~~~
revorad
Your argument rests on the weird assumption that the only thing developers do
is write code.

Maybe I'm unique but my needs also include stuff like food, shopping, talking
to friends, driving, running, clothes, and more.

 _Another problem is that when developers decide to do their own startup, the
only domain they really understand is software development._

I don't care about the "domain". I've got a problem and I'm fixing it. I
happen to be a developer, so I can use technology to fix it.

As the OP said, you're overthinking it.

~~~
mgkimsal
"Maybe I'm unique but my needs also include stuff like food, shopping, talking
to friends, driving, running, clothes, and more."

You probably don't spend 8-10 hours per day eating/preparing food, nor
driving, nor running etc. You may engage in those things, but you're not an
expert in those domains.

The OP point was that there's many lucrative domains out there that don't have
optimal solutions to their problems yet, but most people who do software all
day only really understand the ins and outs of the software dev industry as
opposed to, say, the funeral business and their unique needs. Yes, you
probably have been to funerals, and even said "wow, i've got a need/want for
better funerals", but really digging deep in to an industry takes a lot of
time and effort.

~~~
revorad
I bet Drew Houston wasn't spending 8-10 hours a day sharing files, neither was
Zuck looking up student profiles all day long.

I don't agree with the notion that you have to understand the ins and outs of
something to start working on it. See <http://paulgraham.com/schlep.html>

Do you think all of Basecamp's customers are software companies because that's
the only domain 37s knows deeply about?

Funeral directors use Facebook too.

I wouldn't think "wow, i've got a need/want for better funerals". I would
probably notice some specific problem and think how to solve it. If software
can help, that's great, otherwise I'm not starting an undertaking business any
time soon.

~~~
mgkimsal
You end up needing to be willing to commit to learning a hell of a lot about
an industry, and that's time you won't be developing. The tech, in most cases,
is secondary to understanding the business needs and workflow of an industry.
One of the most successful guys I know as a small business software guy took a
year to take mortuary classes and work in the funeral industry to learn their
needs before developing services for them.

~~~
BadassFractal
I agree with this. If you want to be an entrepreneur, it doesn't matter if you
start a construction company, a funeral service or flower delivery. You might
not ever write a line of code and still have a perfectly profitable fast
growing business.

The prob is that we're all tech geeks here and all we want to do is turn our
fetish for coding into the next big thing, so we always try to think in terms
of software solutions.

------
markerdmann
Another approach, if you want to create something for a lucrative market but
you're not a user, is to co-create your product with customers. This piece on
how to identify a monetizable pain is great:

[http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanfurr/2011/11/18/nailing-
th...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanfurr/2011/11/18/nailing-the-
monetizable-pain-lets-get-specific/)

Clay Collins also advocates for a similar approach that he calls the
"interactive offer":

<http://mixergy.com/collins-interactive-offer-interview/>

------
itmag
I think it's also a good thing to stop overthinking it in regard to Hard Work.
The schlep barrier and uggh fields come to mind.

<http://paulgraham.com/schlep.html>

<http://lesswrong.com/lw/21b/ugh_fields/>

What are some ideas that you would do if you weren't concerned about "working
smarter" or something having to be elegant from the get-go?

My most successful product has been a magazine (and let me define that
success: very successful in terms of contacts it's given me, unsuccessful
financially). The "build process" for that has been neither elegant nor free
of mountains of schlepping.

~~~
arturoogroo
Hi, what kind of magazine, is it an app magazine? Me and a friend of mine are
making something similar, but for shopping in the android platform... Love to
hear what you're doing!

------
miles_matthias
Maybe I should write down every thing I use for a day and glean ideas from
that.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Maybe you can write all issues that annoy you about each of those things you
use every day, and then see if some of them are problems for others as well,
and if they can be fixed? I heard once that it's a great way to generate ideas
that might actually give value and bring some money back :).

------
EricDeb
I think there is definitely a problem with the realism that Hacker News
unknowingly perpetuates. I would imagine people who read Hacker News are less
likely to start companies because they are exposed to extremely intelligent
people's comments on all things technological on a daily basis.

I think people forget that there are a lot of other characteristics besides
intelligence necessary for successful Entrepreneurship

------
tcarnell
...so how would corporate banking systems get built?

Although I understand the sentiment, and have followed it with a number of my
projects, an aweful lot of companies build and sell software that is not
necesarily useful for their own purposes (banking, financial, retail etc).

A better and more general rule, and one that has been stated millions of times
is simply its really REALLY important to known and understand your client*.

The client could be a 'normal' Internet user, or could be a multi-million
dollar enterprise, but unless you understand them, you can forget trying to
get money out of them! (and if they are a multi-million dollar enterprise, the
people you need to sell to are very unlikely to be the people that actually
use the system and you absolutely do need a mature product strategy and the
necesary resources to even make a single sale).

~~~
psquid
Seems to me that the advice in the OP is intended primarily for someone doing
a startup (or planning to). In that circumstance, you're probably not going to
stick with such a high risk, even for high potential reward, unless you
yourself fit into the group that would use it.

That is to say, you yourself are the client (sort of), meaning there's not so
much need to make any effort understand the client, because you already know
what you know/how you feel about $THING(/etc.).

------
Terry_B
It's a good point but there's a huge field of potential software and
opportunity out there that we programmers are not the users of. Who should
build it then?

~~~
revorad
Can you give an example?

I really don't get this narrow self-identification of oneself as a programmer.
How does being a programmer stop or exclude you from being other things? I'm a
programmer, husband, musician, cook, dancer, friend, teacher, comedian,
shopper, businessman, writer, house owner, movie-watcher, music fan, son who
lives away from his parents, and much more.

Programming is a great skill, but not my identity.

~~~
Terry_B
Sure, amongst other things I've written software for use by commercial pilots
and nurses. I don't think I'll end up being either of those.

------
miles_matthias
By the way, that advice in the Steve Jobs biography isn't actually from Steve
Jobs. I'm sure the OP knows this, but I just wanted to point out that it was
from Mike Markkula's marketing principles paper entitled, "The Apple Marketing
Philosophy"

------
dasil003
This highlights one of my main problems with social media in general which is
that popularity does not correlate well to utility. Even in a relatively niche
community like HN there is still tendency towards shallower, more general
articles simply because they are applicable to a wider audience so they
inherently attract more upvotes. But if you're running a business, the most
important thing will be domain knowledge, and the most useful information will
not be something found in a blog post that goes viral, but insight and wisdom
discovered by insiders who have concrete, applicable experience. Finding these
people is of course much harder than popping open HN, but it's possible if you
stay focused on smaller communities and networking within your industry. Keep
your nose to the grindstone long enough and you will become one of these
people.

That's not to say that there's no value to be extracted from popular subjects.
Of course there is a lot of capitalization to be done on trends and fads, and
mass markets are the biggest, but as a daily visitor to HN I think I can
safely say that I could come here once every two weeks and gain almost the
same marginal value, significantly less than what I'm gaining in daily work
experience.

------
mark_integerdsv
Something that I took away from this (awesome blog post) is perhaps not
directly related: don't spend too much time worrying about competitors. Build
your thing. Just. Build. It.

If you have innovated and not imitated you will have something that no one
else has. It's really that simple. You could sit and fret about how easily
Google could destroy you, you could worry about the fact that maybe Facebook
offers a similar app/service/whathaveyou… None of that matters. Build your
thing.

True originality _always_ wins out in the end.

~~~
Psyonic
I agree with all that, except the end. By all means just built it, but true
originality does not always win in the end. See success of Snuggie vs. earlier
product Slanket for reference.

------
generalcalm
I have gone to work at a company within the industry I have built software
for.

I have enlisted other companies within the industry to use our software before
it is completed, so we can get it right before release.

My job is to help them reach required outcomes in the fastest and easiest
way... this process has helped me to stop trying to imput what i think it
best, which only clouds what customers really want to pay for.

------
tdr
Also really good advice:

 _A year into my first startup, my first major product epiphany was to never,
never, ever try to build a product you couldn’t be a user for_

You have to have the vision, understand everything around it. Relying only on
(potential) outsiders doesn't cut it. You need prioritization, focus (" means
saying NO"), simplify the UX... You need to be committed. Otherwise you just
get "feature creep"

------
mburney
What evidence exists that building a product that you would use leads to a
greater chance of success? I can think of plenty of counterexamples of
entrepreneurs that have built successful products for an audience other than
themselves.

~~~
nate
I doubt you are going to fine the statistical evidence. Though that would be
an awesome find.

The main reason I want to be the user of the product I make: it's 100 times
easier to get out of bed in the morning to work on the thing you want to use
that day. If you are working on something for someone else, and the "I'm an
entrepreneur" honeymoon wears off and you are struggling to get your first
revenue, it's HARD to work on that thing you think other people need. Even if
you've got some evidence that other people need it.

Doing customer development is so much harder in practice than theory :) When
you get to be your own customer, you get to save tons and tons of times
waiting for folks to return your emails and calls.

------
bpodgursky
Not disagreeing with the rest of the article, but what's wrong with
craigslist? It's super clean, simple, fast, and easy to use. What could extra
javascript/flash/ajax possibly add to the site?

~~~
starwed
Go to craigslist, and try searching for only 1 BR apartments.

~~~
tedunangst
Would you really refuse to look at a 2 BR that's in your price range?
Personally, I always just set a price and then take the best available. I
guess if you wanted to pick a configuration and then take the best price,
craigslist doesn't help filter much. But the price first approach is also the
one every broker I've used took.

~~~
chaz
You're right. But keyword spam, daily reposting, and generic posts that direct
you to another site are bigger offenders that make Craigslist really hard to
use.

------
S_A_P
Let me just say thank you to the author. I pretty much over think every aspect
of my life. Its good to have this little reminder.

------
cmoscoso
You must know who their users and their needs, but not necessarily BE a user.

or, you know, you're overthinking the problem. ;)

------
fosk
In 5 words: eat your own dog food.

------
ak2012
How does miso make money??

------
josephmisiti
so true ....

------
pejapeja
Only making products that you are a user of is a great advice. Vote up.

------
baby
Best advice in seduction also, for all those people who are reading a lot of
"PUA"'s material.

