
HTTP Status Code for Legally-restricted Resources - tete
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tbray-http-legally-restricted-status-00
======
marquis
Fahrenheit 451, drafted in the last couple of days in honour of Mr. Bradbury?
I do find it fitting that if this passes, we have a cultural reference to
remind of its significance. I look forward to seeing some interesting error
pages in the future.

~~~
ktizo
Was only the other day that my mate pointed out to me that 451 is DEA if you
transcribe it. And after all, there are all kinds of paper and they don't all
catch fire at one given temperature, do they?

~~~
fennecfoxen
If I recall correctly, Mr. Bradbury called a firehouse and asked the guy there
"what temperature does paper ignite at?" and they thought about it for a
moment and looked up some value in a reference manual. So don't go reading too
much into the number. Also, note that the (US) DEA was founded in 1973, while
_451_ was published in 1953.

Also, casual Internet browsing suggests values closer to 450 _celsius_ for the
autoignition point of typical paper, so don't go relying too much on any one
number you get from the title of a book (or from a hacker news post, for that
matter)

~~~
ktizo
_Also, note that the (US) DEA was founded in 1973, while _451_ was published
in 1953._

Ahh, so the DEA named themselves after the book then, that sounds about
right.. ;)

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unwind
Interesting to see Tim Bray (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Bray>) still
being active at this level of the web's development.

Not sure I see the applications of this, but I guess more high-level error
messaging is something that is in general a good thing so I guess that should
hold for the web, too.

~~~
popee
Application will be www.google.com, www.youtube.com, etc. They'll get
censorship instruction from gov bodies. There are two things that are obvious
now, fight google vs facebook is like who will be big brothers right hand and
other is that RMS was right. Sad thing is that it is first time in human
history that evil oligarchy can be beaten by engineers (google, facebook,
...). Too bad they don't get it :-(

------
cagenut
This can't be a coincidence right? Its a way of saying that DMCA/lawsuit
takedowns are digital book burning.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Except there are plenty of legitimate DMCA takedowns.

~~~
jlgreco
A 451 could be used in a _lot_ more cases than just DMCA takedown'd documents.

~~~
byoung2
For example, court-mandated gag orders, nondisclosure agreements, national
security, etc.

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sanxiyn
I love the example.

FYI, 755 AUC is 2 AD, so the example is referring to the time of Jesus.

~~~
rmc
In 2 AD Jesus wasn't really doing much.

Given the references to "Judean Liberation Front", it's almost certainly a
reference to Monty Python's "The Life of Brian" film.

~~~
ChuckMcM
Which was the Judean People's Front, or their arch enemy the People's Front of
Judea.

~~~
rmc
Maybe I'm thinking of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Judea. Those
splitters!!

------
mfer
It seems some inspiration behind this is in the blog post at
[http://shkspr.mobi/blog/index.php/2012/06/there-is-no-
http-c...](http://shkspr.mobi/blog/index.php/2012/06/there-is-no-http-code-
for-censorship-but-perhaps-there-should-be/)

~~~
rickard
And specifically the referenced slashdot discussion and comment:
[http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2906113&cid=4027...](http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2906113&cid=40270621)
Indeed, very amusing and to the point.

------
inlined
I'd believe the Bradbury conspiracy theories since this should otherwise be a
5xx error code for server errors. The client certainly didn't do anything
wrong (4xx)

~~~
recursive
Isn't this analagous to a 403?

------
gouranga
The fact that this even has to exist saddens me.

However, I'm glad there is a distinction between not available and not there.

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solox3
> The use of the 451 status code implies neither the existence nor non-
> existence of the resource named in the request.

If something didn't exist at all, why would I send a 451?

> The 451 status code is optional; clients cannot rely upon its use

So... everybody can ignore 451?

~~~
phoboslab
> If something didn't exist at all, why would I send a 451?

You just don't acknowledge the existence.

> So... everybody can ignore 451?

The status code is optional in the sense that you don't have to use it if a
resource is unavailable for legal reasons. You can use it if you want to
inform the user what exactly is going on.

~~~
schiffern
>You can use it if you want to inform the user what exactly is going on.

That's exactly the purpose.

>The 4xx class of status code is intended for cases in which the client seems
to have erred. Except when responding to a HEAD request, the server SHOULD
include an entity containing an explanation of the error situation, and
whether it is a temporary or permanent condition. These status codes are
applicable to any request method. _User agents SHOULD display any included
entity to the user._

<http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html>

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scotty79
There should be optional(?) "Location" header pointing to url where you can
download the restricted document from. Might be magnet link.

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drivingmenuts
The 400 series implies that there was an error on the client side, when there
clearly isn't one. The client has made a valid request that a middleman
refuses to honor.

This better fits into the 300 series as a permanent addition.

~~~
rickard
Isn't it quite close to both 403 Forbidden, "request was a legal request, but
the server is refusing to respond to it" and 401 Unauthorized? And now it's on
the wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_status_codes> , and that
equates with being approved, right?

~~~
kijin
TIL Microsoft uses 450 for parental control. And now 451 for legal censorship.
Perhaps we could use the 450-459 range to signify various censorship
scenarios. The 450s is also a nice middle ground between 400s and 500s.

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bashzor
Is this a troll or something?

~~~
sgift
Maybe, but if I have to guess differently than you think: They probably want
to use this to "troll" governments and heavy users of DMCA take-down notices.
These people usually don't like it if users notice that they were responsible,
so this is against their interests.

Reminds me of this: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4048828>

~~~
delinka
I think it's a fabulous idea. Request and item that been the subject of a
takedown notice, receive the details of who produced the takedown.

~~~
wmf
Google sort of does that, although you have to go to Chilling Effects and look
up the takedown.

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junto
Can we rename this to the "MPAA/RIAA HTTP Status Code"

~~~
wmf
No, because the MPAA/RIAA don't run the Great Firewall or other government
censorship systems.

~~~
JaimeDiamond
They don't run it... they just dictate how it should run and hire believers to
run it.

