
iA makes patent threats - shawndumas
http://www.marco.org/2013/12/26/information-architects-threaten-with-patents
======
steveklabnik
I may just be a bit slow today, but I fail to see how a patent obtained by a
small company can not also be defensive.

Also, note that they've recanted, as the linked article states:
[http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/21/5234580/patent-pending-
ia...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/21/5234580/patent-pending-ias-militant-
stance-on-syntax-control)

~~~
CamperBob2
Here's the problem with patents: if you file for a patent, you are basically
manufacturing intellectual land mines. Both the ethics and mechanics involved
are chillingly analogous. Yes, they can be used defensively against a specific
enemy. The vast majority will never explode at all, although they will still
cost money to deploy. The few that _do_ eventually go off are likely to injure
uninvolved parties who didn't see what they were stepping on -- people and
companies who may not even have been born when you tightened the last screw.
Your creation will remain dangerous for decades, long past the point when it
could conceivably benefit your country's economy as a whole.

The people who are paying you to build the land mine have interests that are
different from yours -- perhaps that's not true at the moment, but it almost
certainly will be in the future. They are very likely to sell your handiwork
to someone else, perhaps under financial or legal duress. This may happen
several times before the explosives in your creation decay into harmlessness.
Chances are, any influence you may have when you manufacture your mine will
only diminish with time. It is not only possible but likely that what you are
building will fall into the hands of people whose interests and values are far
removed from your own.

Of course, it's unlikely that you will be the one who eventually steps on your
own mine. Whether that makes a difference to you depends on -- and speaks
volumes about -- your character as an engineer.

~~~
steveklabnik
Sure. I don't agree with software patents. This story doesn't really answer my
question.

~~~
CamperBob2
_I may just be a bit slow today, but I fail to see how a patent obtained by a
small company can not also be defensive._

Of course it answers your question. The answer is that there _is_ no answer.
You simply have no way of knowing whether a given patent will be used
defensively or offensively, ethically or unethically. Like any good monster it
has a life of its own.

~~~
steveklabnik
Ah, gotcha.

------
vellum
"Big companies like Google and Apple have defensible reasons to accumulate
lots of patents: they need them for _defense_."

About that...

 _The Rockstar consortium is an organization backed by Apple, Microsoft,
BlackBerry, Ericsson and Sony. It purchased patents off of the defunct
telecommunications company Nortel in 2011, in a bidding war with Google.

Now, the consortium has filed suit against Google, ASUSTek, HTC, Huawei, LG,
Pantech and ZTE over those patents._

[http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/31/apple-microsoft-backed-
rock...](http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/31/apple-microsoft-backed-rockstar-
consortium-sues-google-samsung-over-7-nortel-patents/)

------
jorde
I side with Marco on this but I think he should update the original post on
new developments: iA decided to drop the patent application yesterday [1].
Regardless, their original attitude towards this issue was enough for me to
decide not to support future iA products.

[1]:
[https://twitter.com/iA/status/416393539182796800](https://twitter.com/iA/status/416393539182796800)

------
michaelmartin
It's worth considering how poorly handled the communications were here. No
blog posts, no responses to the forum thread that mostly started all of this
[1], nor the story that hit HN's front page [2].

Just Twitter. Which is something, but not enough when you have a PR issue this
big...

[1]: [http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/21/5234580/patent-pending-
ia...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/21/5234580/patent-pending-ias-militant-
stance-on-syntax-control) [2]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6966528](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6966528)

------
rbanffy
> I see no reason to support any small developers who file for patents.

So, what if Apple, or Google, or Microsoft, or Oracle decide they like feature
F and implement it in one of their applications that compete with whatever the
small patent holder does?

~~~
thomholwerda
Seeing a fervent Apple supporter cry foul over iA even though Apple does the
exact same thing all the time is... Beyond belief.

~~~
Touche
In this case the thing iA tried to copyright was one of Apple's own APIs.

~~~
jrnkntl
NSLinguisticTagger that is, for anyone wondering.

[https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/cocoa/...](https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/cocoa/reference/NSLinguisticTagger_Class/Reference/Reference.html)

------
adventured
"But when a small company or independent developer files for a small number of
patents, there’s no defensive value — they can only be used for offense."

This is obviously not correct.

1) With the changes in patent law, it's now critical to be the first to file.
It's not enough to just have proof that you did something / invented something
before someone else.

2) A patent can be filed for the purpose of preventing a competitor or
aggressor from acquiring said patent and using it offensively. This makes a
lot of sense for small companies particularly if their business hinges on a
specific technology that is even kinda-sorta original to said company, or if
the company's prosperity depends on not getting hit by a patent lawsuit on
some cornerstone aspect to their business.

------
james33
I completely disagree with this sentiment and find this "article" to be a huge
turnoff. But, thanks for making me aware of iA Writer Pro, you just got iA a
new sale.

------
btucker
And yet making threats using the bully pulpit that comes with having a popular
internet personality is just fine.

------
Touche
Finally I agree with Marco completely.

~~~
mrich
Except Apple uses their patents offensively, even trolling with them, but he
prefers attacking a small developer since he may be affected this time.

