
“Australians First”: Australia abolishing 457 temporary skilled worker visa - empressplay
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-18/government-abolishing-457-visas/8450310
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a_bonobo
This is extremely bad news for Australian science.

I'm a postdoctoral researcher who's on a 457 visa out of my PhD. The new 457
replacement requires 3 years of work experience, so we cannot hire people from
overseas who've just finished their PhDs. Without a permanent residency
outcome we cannot keep these people after their initial contract (which is my
own plan). They doubled the price but that's OK (for us!) since the
university's reallocation funds pay for that.

This is short-sighted pandering to the far-right who've been clamoring for
this, and science loses.

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sengork
I would distinguish between PhD and IT work when it comes to 457 visas. In
practice 457, within the IT field at least, has rarely served its intended
purpose and often been misused. Likewise it has deterred many locals from
considering IT as an area of study.

On the other hand PhD applicants are much closer to the intended purposes of
the 457. For example research cannot be developed in the same manner and
quantity as IT.

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viraptor
> Likewise it has deterred many locals from considering IT as an area of
> study.

That's a bold statement. Have you got some good source? I'm having a problem
imagining a statistically relevant number of people saying "I'm interested in
pursuing one of the skills marked by the government as experiencing national
shortage, (for years!) but I won't because immigrants will take those
positions instead"

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empressplay
457 visa workers have driven down salary expectations for entry-level
development jobs, thus students have began to shy away from computer science
as a field of study (since there are plenty of other fields that pay more)

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Khaine
Shortcomings with 457 visas have been identified by Dr Joanna Howe, a senior
lecturer in law at the University of Adelaide (see here and here) as well as
in the recent Senate report entitled A National Disgrace: The Exploitation of
Temporary Work Visa Holders[1].

The four major problems with the system that need fundamental reform, namely:
* There are way too many occupations on the skills shortages list. * Those
working under the skill level 1 (so-called “Managers and Professionals”) and
skill level 2 (so-called “Associate Professionals”) are not subject to any
labour market testing to determine whether an Australian can do the job first.
Hence, nearly 80% of total 457 visa holders are not currently subject to
labour market testing. * Where labour market testing is required it can be
overcome by putting an ad on Facebook or other social media and that is enough
to show that you’ve tested the labour market – basically a farce. * The 457
visa system is not sufficiently responsive either to higher levels of
unemployment, or to labour market changes in specific skilled occupations.

[1]
[http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Sena...](http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Education_and_Employment/temporary_work_visa/Report)

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phsource
Looking at this list, the professions that Turnbull wants to remove is
incredibly broad. As a Canadian in the US, I'm not 100% clear, but it seems
like the 457 visa is a lot like the H1-B.

With that comparison, it's really surprising to see professions like:

    
    
      * Chemical engineer
      * Petroleum engineer
      * Electronics engineer
      * Web developer
    

on the list at the bottom.

If someone announced they were taking these professions off the H1-B list in
the US, I'm pretty sure there'd be a huge uproar. This is not even to mention
that lots of these sound pretty important for Australia's resource economy.
Can someone educate me on the situation from a more Australian point of view?

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cynix
A lot of "programmers/web developers" on this visa are scammers looking for a
quick way to gain permanent residency (apparently it's a lot easier for a
random person to claim they're a programmer than other professions that
require actual skill). There's a whole industry of businesses providing
"employment" to these people for a fee. I think the idea is to replace this
visa with one that has more stringent skill/language requirements to weed out
these scammers.

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joshka
It's easy to suggest this type of fraud and assume it's true based on merit.
Do you have any proof of the above statements or is this speculation?

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empressplay
I personally discovered a hair salon that was advertising for a "full time web
developer" to manage their website (lol) with the plan to then use that
(unfilled, obviously, given the extremely weak salary they were offering)
position to bring in a "web developer" hairdresser on a 457. The system is
seriously abused.

EDIT: I guess the truth hurts?

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viraptor
I'd like to hear how it actually went for them. Here's why I think the story,
or a successful (fraudulent) outcome is unlikely:

The visas cost quite a lot - in application costs, time to collect documents,
cost of tests, etc. And I mean likely a full month or more of a hairdresser
salary kind of cost. On top of that you'd need to provide a documentation of
both a degree and relevant work experience for the last 10 years just to check
if you qualify. Then you get the history and references checked, so that needs
to pass as well.

For the company organising such fraud, it would likely be a lot less hassle to
take a local person and teach them 1-to-1, full time for a month. And
considering you may end up sponsoring someone without skills to come and work
for you essentially illegally - what's the point?

Also for the person seeking that position: if you're found out, you'll likely
never get a proper visa. That a big risk to take.

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forgottenacc57
457 visas were very inflexible for the visa holder .... you needed to be
sponsored by the employer and not many employers were interested in doing
that.

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thomas-b
A lot of it is summarized here:
[http://www.border.gov.au/WorkinginAustralia/Documents/abolit...](http://www.border.gov.au/WorkinginAustralia/Documents/abolition-
replacement-457.pdf) Basically, current holder are fine, 457 Visa will also
keep being issued until March 2018 with some extra restrictions starting 1st
of July.

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Vanit
The company I work for has hired 2 students via 457s that completed their
engineering work experience with us during their degree. Finding high quality
employees this way worked great for us, it's a shame that it won't work
anymore, as I understand it.

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empressplay
Hey TCS, don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)

