
Ask HN: I need legal advice - anymys
I&#x27;m facing a felony charge third degree assault. I&#x27;m 23 year old black male.<p>In march I was with a white female late night 1am went to the store to buy alcohol but she ended up stealing 3 vodkas from a local grocery store and she ran out with the alcohols while the manager and the workers took picture of us and my car.<p>The store camera has pictures of her stealing alcohol. While we were leaving the store the store works ran at us and in panic I got scared and yelled I have a gun back up. 2 witness heard me say that. I didn&#x27;t hurt anyone or take anything but I did say I had a gun even though I really didn&#x27;t have a gun just trying to scare them away. The girl left town and never coming back but now I&#x27;m being charged with this felony. I was given a felony dismissal date to reduce it down to a charge of just a Assault 4 gross misdemeanor.
Should I take it to trial or take the felony dismissal? I can&#x27;t afford a good lawyer and my public defender is saying it&#x27;s risky to go to trial even though no one got hurt and I didn&#x27;t steal anything it&#x27;s clearly in the pictures the manager took that the girl stole..<p>I also don&#x27;t have a criminal record besides an assault charge back in 2007 when I was a juvi.
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smt88
I'm not a lawyer, and nothing I write is legal advice.

> _even though no one got hurt_

It sounds like you committed multiple crimes, regardless of whether anyone got
hurt. Where is there any room for you to argue against the charges?

Your public defender might not be an expensive "good" lawyer, but this is a
clear-cut situation. Your options are to:

1) take advice from a bunch of random people on the internet

2) take a lawyer's advice

My suggestion is go with #2, no matter how "bad" that lawyer might be. S/he
certainly has more experience (and knowledge of the situation) than pretty
much anyone on HN. It's kinda weird that you ended up here to ask for advice
at all...

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anymys
bunch of smart people on here. Just basically asking what others would do if
they were in my situation. Second opinion basically.

~~~
smt88
I promise you that "experienced" is more important than "smart". I hope
everything works out for you long-term. It seems like the prosecutor is
working with you to keep the charges to a minimum, and that's something to be
grateful for. Whether or not we have a good legal system, you've certainly
given it an excuse to come down on you like a ton of bricks.

------
nness
So you were an accomplice to a robbery and you threatened deadly force? I'd
take the plea. (IANAL)

~~~
anymys
Having a criminal record might not even get me a job. Gross misdemeanor and a
felony both look bad on background checks at least trial I have a chance to
beat it all.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Having a criminal record might not even get me a job.

Having a criminal record almost certainly won't get you a job.

That being said, different criminal records may differ significantly in how
much they _hurt_ the ability of your education and experience to get you a
job.

> Gross misdemeanor and a felony both look bad on background checks at least
> trial I have a chance to beat it all.

Well, I'm not sure of the specific state or specific law the charges are
under, and IANAL, but it sounds from your description like it is quite likely
that there is fairly damning evidence for the prosecution and not a lot you
have to offer against it. So, while in theory its _possible_ for you to get a
not-guilty verdict at trial -- juries _can_ do pretty much anything -- it
doesn't seem like its a great gamble. And while neither offense is going to
look good on a criminal background check, presumably the felony all comes with
greater potential incarceration time (and quite possibly imprisonment under
worse conditions) and other disadvantages; that shouldn't be disregarded.

But, really, the legal advice you are getting from your public defender is
probably _vastly_ better than any you'll get here.

------
jeffmould
IANAL, but a few things I would consider:

1\. You have admitted you were present for the crime and that you yelled you
had a deadly weapon. Even if you have denied making this statement up until
this point, there is a good chance if this case goes to trial, the prosecutor
will dig up the admission some way or some how, increasing your chances of
conviction.

2\. What do you gain by going to trial? You have admitted guilt so there is
little chance the jury will say forget about it, let this guy go. Worse case
they will sentence you to the fullest for the crime, but most likely you will
get minimum based on the crime, which in your case sounds like a felony.

3\. Personally I would take the plea deal. You are going from a felony to a
misdemeanor. In many states it is a whole lot easier to expunge or seal a
misdemeanor than a felony down the road. A misdemeanor also, in most cases,
will allow you to keep all your rights.

4\. If you can afford an attorney, hire an attorney. Most public defenders
(PD) are overworked and underpaid, and unless your case has some reason to
stand out the unfortunate fact is that it will be one in a pile on someone's
desk. Not to underestimate a PD, but there may be other options that an
attorney with more time to review the case could find. If you have no adult
criminal record you may also be able to plead guilty but have adjudication
withheld. Essentially this means you admit guilt, the judge will sentence you
of the crime, but if you complete your sentence it will not be viewed as
having a criminal conviction and you will not lose your rights.

5\. If you are honestly concerned about your criminal record, do you know how
to get a hold of the girl? You may try to work a deal where your charges are
dropped, or reduced further, if you are able to get the girl to turn herself
in or point the police to where she currently is. People may call you a rat or
snitch, whatever. This isn't about what someone thinks of you. You are facing
real penalties and the possibility of doing jail time. In the end it is your
future and you have only yourself to look out for.

Again, not a lawyer, but I have walked in your shoes to some extent.

~~~
anymys
Thanks that was helpful, I don't have any Adult criminal convictions yet but
I'm pending for a DUI case that I got a few months ago. But this felony case
was back in march. so there both pending at the same time.

plus if the girl turns herself in how would that help me? I'm being charged
with assault not her.

~~~
jeffmould
Again, IANAL, but this is especially a good instance where I would hire an
attorney if you can afford to. You may be able to get the DUI and assault
cases consolidated, even though they are separate incidents. You may be able
to take a stiffer sentence on the DUI to avoid the penalty on the assault.
Just as an example, I was able to get two completely unrelated charges almost
a year apart consolidated. Took a stiffer sentence (longer, more prohibitive
probation) to avoid certain jail time on the greater charge. My lawyer was
able to get probation on the greater charge to run simultaneous with the other
probation. So I served one year of hard probation (curfew, almost daily
monitoring, and constant monitoring of my home and business), instead of two
years in jail.

As for the girl turning herself in, if she is the one that actually committed
the theft she may be worth more to the prosecutors in terms of conviction than
your assault charge. Just like a getaway driver turning in the bank robber.
The bank robber is who they really want, and in most cases they will let the
getaway driver off with a slap on the wrist if they help get the bank robber
convicted.

I can't reiterate enough though that I am not a lawyer, not familiar with your
case, and this by no means legal advice by any stretch. The only honest, been
there done that, advice I can give you at this point is that in situations
like this you need to step back and assess the direction you are headed. If
you are truly remorseful, this was a slip in judgment, and you are honestly
wanting to get your life headed in the right direction, you need to remove
yourself from your current circles. Snitches get stitches is all fine and
great when all you aspire to is life on the streets or in jail, but if you
want to change for the better you have to look out for yourself first. That
means taking actions that can be difficult at times, like completely dropping
the circle of people you hangout with (they aren't your friends if they are
robbing stores when you are with them) or moving out of the area.

------
ericob
The "facts" of the event are going to be presented if you go to trial.
Prosecution presumably will do its best to paint you in a bad light. What do
you have to say in your defense? "I feel terrible and I made a huge mistake"
isn't a defense, it's a plea for clemency.

I suppose it is _possible_ that you might get lenient treatment if you were
exceptionally remorseful and contrite. Maybe. Or maybe the judge or jury will
feel that "We Need To Send a Message."

You claim that you "didn't take anything." But (apparently) you are not being
charged with the robbery. So you are in agreement with the Cops / Prosecutor
on this. You seem perhaps to think that the assault charge is about the
_robbery_ (yes?) but it looks to me that the assault charge is about the
threat to use deadly force ("I have a gun!") You should get this clarified
with your lawyer. You should also know the differences in sentencing levels
between "Assault 3" and "Assault 4."

Even if you did not really have a gun and did not physically harm anyone, the
law may still consider that you committed Assault. It sounds like you are not
being charged with the robbery... well, that's something good for you. But you
were "involved" in a robbery and when the victims of that robbery pursued you,
you shouted out that you had a gun. Have you gone on record agreeing to that?

If you _haven 't_ gone on record admitting that you shouted out that you had a
gun, you could try lying under oath and claim that you did NOT say such a
thing. And face two witnesses who will swear that you did say that. That might
not work out well for you.

If you did claim to have a gun (even though you did not), in that situation
the law might assume that the victims felt (or any ordinary person would feel)
threatened. Such a threat might be classified as Assault.

The fact that you were charged with (felony) THIRD degree assault, with an
offer to reduce it to "Assault 4 gross misdemeanor" suggests that somebody
either is willing to give you a bit of a break (!?), or they figure that going
to trial, and succeeding, with the 3rd degree assault charge might be
difficult. (Why not charge you with FIRST, or SECOND degree assault... hey,
you could be in a worse position than you are!)

So...

Go to trial and lose: you have a felony on your record. I think this is Bad.

Go to trial and get more leniency than the reduced charge offer... you'd be
ahead. What would need to happen for you to get that better deal? How likely
is that to happen?

If you take the offer: you have a "gross misdemeanor" on your record. (I'm
guessing that's less bad than a felony but I don't actually understand the
difference.)

Does your lawyer think you have any additional wiggle room? If you overflow
with remorse, contrition and abject apologies... could you get 6 months of
community service instead? Or something?

That's all I have for now.

~~~
anymys
thanks, I did not go on record saying I had a gun. In the file it showed that
I did not say it but the witness heard me say it both of them.

