
I Bootstrapped My Side Project to $6k/Month (2017) - WD-42
https://blog.usejournal.com/how-i-bootstrapped-a-side-project-to-6k-month-while-secretly-hating-everything-it-stands-for-f7405823de4
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securingsincity
This was written last year, it should have 2017 appended

~~~
detaro
and had a HN discussion back then
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15713505](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15713505)

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roymurdock
damn, this guy built a tool for growth hackers to make android app store spam,
added gamification when it started failing, then added a pyramid MLM referral
system for users to market it by word of mouth. he's obviously very smart and
motivated. it's just kind of sad to me that the ad economy has grown so large
that this is the best way for smart young people to make money.

i doubt he really hates his product at the end of the day, it's just a catchy
way to market it. if he did, he would've walked away when his partner did to
freelance some more or do another startup.

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jamieweb
> best way for smart young people to make money

It's like when you see people on YouTube who make horrendous clickbait, yet
get millions of views. It's easy to laugh and dismiss them, but financially
they're probably rolling in it...

Are they the smart ones for exploiting the largest, most lucrative audience
(young children who are more likely to watch more of the video before clicking
off) and cashing in? Or are they legitimately not self-aware?

~~~
fossuser
I'd guess it's just people reacting to financial incentives.

It's a bummer that our society is structured with financial incentives that
are so poorly aligned with interesting goals.

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wpietri
I think it's incumbent on us to change that. Too often something dubious is
justified by how much money it makes. But we don't have to buy into it. And we
can call it out when it happens.

Look at how people treat the statement, "I work at Facebook", for example. It
has changed a lot over the last decade. It used to be hot and positive. But I
had a friend start just recently. They're doing something worthwhile and
entirely unrelated to the many things terrible about Facebook. But they still
felt obliged to apologize for it.

I'd like to see more of that pressure applied to people who are making money
by making the world worse.

~~~
WA
So should I tell other people in my coworking space that I think their job is
total bullshit?

One or two happen to be in some field that trigger my bullshit alert and I
think it’s somewhat sketchy what they do. For example, stuff around network
marketing for dietary supplements.

I mean, who am I to judge?

~~~
wpietri
I don't know that I'd walk over and say, "Buddy, this is bullshit!" Just as a
practical matter, that doesn't do much to change minds.

But as to who you are, I'd say you have several things that give you grounds
to have an opinion. One is that you're a human being and want to see other
humans treated well. Two, you're part of a variety of communities, and you
have an interest in seeing those communities be healthy. Three, you're a
successful entrepreneur, so you have real expertise in what makes for a good
business. And surely there are more.

In your shoes I'd definitely look for opportunities to influence people like
that. It can be as simple as the look that passes across your face when they
tell you what they do. If they ask for advice, you can point them to something
healthier. You could give a talk on what makes for good, sustainable
businesses. And with people where you are already an influencer (e.g.,
friends, family) you can definitely help keep them from getting into work like
that.

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WA
Thanks for your insightful and encouraging comment. This actually helps me a
lot. The community-aspect is totally right: I don't want to have the coworking
environment poisoned with "get-rich-quick" people.

> _You could give a talk on what makes for good, sustainable businesses._

I will do! And I'll try to find words that sound encouraging to them. After
all, most of them probably just want more freedom for themselves and the
sketchy business ideas probably look like the simplest way to get there.

~~~
wpietri
Excellent point. My mom got suckered by a couple of MLM schemes when I was a
kid. She was very sharp but really wanted to improve our lives, and these
people sold the opportunity angle really hard. Although it made me absolutely
hate get-rich-quick schemes, I also know that the people caught up in them are
generally sincere and well meaning.

Good luck with it! Feel free to drop me a line and let me know how it goes.

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RobertoG
First page in HN, I bet he is going to get a few more users.

This "I feel guilty but they are making money" narrative thing is just genius
marketing. I take my hat off to him.

~~~
rb808
Every time I get into my Porsche I'm reminded of how bad the project is.

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TeMPOraL
Holy shit. I have so mixed feelings.

First of all, thank you for sharing this story. Secondly, I envy your grit and
the ability to just go and sell, instead of being stuck in impostor syndrome
mode.

Thirdly, shame on you for building a product which sole point is to make money
by destroying the Play Store. And shame on you for working on it after you
realized this.

Foruthly, and this is the part I don't understand - how on Earth were you able
to make money on that first app of yours? And how your customers are able to
repeat that? I mean, _who on Earth downloads this kind of stuff_? I'm very
confused about this. By your description, that app is "simple app with a list
of videos, targeting a specific trending niche", i.e. not much more than a
YouTube playlist. So who are the people downloading cookie-cutter apps when an
universal one-stop app is available?

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whalesalad
> by destroying the Play Store

One of the first comments on the post is asking about whether or not the OP
intends to duplicate this effort on the Apple App Store. Say what you will
about Apple's walled garden but the core difference between it and the Play
store is that it's designed to prevent things like this.

The Play store invites this sort of thing. Kudos to the OP for capitalizing on
it.

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oconnor663
> I couldn’t understand why users who were making a thousand dollars in ad
> revenue each month, didn’t upgrade their accounts, after all it only costs
> $25. Turns out, a lot of these users were living in countries where they
> couldn’t have a Visa card or PayPal account, and just couldn’t pay me even
> if they wanted to.

I don't know if cryptocurrency is going to solve this problem, but whatever
does solve it is going to generate an enormous amount of wealth.

~~~
UncleEntity
One wonders how they get paid the ad money they earn?

Simple solution: "We take the first $25 in ad revenue your app generates and
you keep the rest."

Complex solution: "We take 50% of the ad revenue your app generates unless you
pay $25/month through outside means."

...unless they needed to create thousands of apps to make _any_ income and 50%
is cheaper than $25/app.

~~~
wyldfire
> We take the first $25 in ad revenue your app generates and you keep the
> rest.

You could invoice them for the $25 but you cannot "keep" it until/unless your
service becomes the advertising network's client.

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archi42
The most valuable point for me: Gamification! A friend of mine wrote his
master's thesis on that topic. And yeah, turns out it works really well if
done right ;-)

Regarding the rest of the text: I wonder what value people using these apps
get out of them?

I share some of his sentiment: The aim is to onboard a bunch of people with a
"get rich quick"-kind-of-mentality and flood a platform with content of
questionable content (I mean, the content could be good - but somehow I doubt
it if a single person creates a thousand apps). On the other hand: Living on
6k$ in Morocco? Could be a worse life...

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erikpukinskis
The secret of Hell, I think, is that you get there before death. By doing evil
things, you invite an evil mentality into your mind which will prey on you as
you become more feeble. The final transition from deathbed to the eternal fire
is just a formality. If you plant the seeds of hell in your mind, they will be
all that remains in the end.

I guess some people think they will never become feeble, that they will
maintain the power to keep the evil stuff separate from the rest of their
life. But we are all enfeebled in the end.

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stallmanite
Did you come up with this personally and/or is there someplace I can get more?
Damn

~~~
gerbilly
A famous Zen story says a very similar thing:

There was once a general who asked the Zen master Hakuin:"Are there really
such things as Heaven and Hell?"

"What do you do for a living?" Hakuin asked him.

"I'm a general."

"Ha, ha, ha! What idiot asked you to be his general? You look more like a
butcher to me", the Zen master teased the general.

"I'll cut you to pieces!" the general angrily pulled his sword.

"Here lie the gates of Hell!" said the master.

"Excuse me...Please forgive my insolence.”

And Hakuin said:"Here lie the gates of Heaven."

Heaven and Hell aren't places that suddenly appear after death. They exist
here and now. Good and evil involve just a single instant of thought, and the
gates of Heaven and Hell are ready to open for you at any time. (From Zen
Stories: The Staff and Shout of the Venerable Ones)

~~~
PavlovsCat

        Pride ruined the angels,
        Their shame them restores;
        Lurks the joy that is sweetest
        In stings of remorse.
    

\-- from Ralph Waldo Emerson's "The Sphinx"

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jccooper
Anybody have an idea what the apps this thing creates are?

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blitmap
Okay. I ultimately liked this posting. It started out rocky because he exposed
he had accomplished so much at a young age (#imverysmart). Sounded like at
several times he wanted to spend money he didn't really have. I liked the
reflection and how he tried several different strategies to grow revenue.

And the posting itself is a good way to boost visibility.

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jvanderbot
So, OP worked hard on a product that help OP, so that it would help others. OP
did whatever it took to keep revenue coming in and learned a valuable set of
skills along the way. Now OP is providing useful services to many users
worldwide and making a living off it.

Everyone has a disillusionment moment, and that's the real takeaway from this
post, for me.

~~~
anyfoo
“Useful”?

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sokoloff
Sure. The app allows non-technical people to create something that they want,
that has value for them, and that they couldn’t make on their own.

~~~
anyfoo
Giving some other people with questionable motives and/or aptitude what they
want might be “useful” to them, in the broadest sense of the word, but the net
effect may well be less than that. The author himself admits that this might
just end up flooding the store with questionable, low quality content.

Lots of actions have consequences beyond their direct and immediate effects,
realizing that is one of the harder parts of growing up.

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the_common_man
This is from 2017

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Quarrelsome
this is both terrifying and enthralling. A beautiful capture of the rationale
behind the creation of monster. Love it.

