
How to get hired - mahipal
http://sivers.org/gethired
======
euroclydon
What is so good about this? It's straight out of the getting hired 101 stuff
that most folks heard in college.

What about spending your time becoming someone worth hiring? Then moving to an
area where they are hiring folks who do what you do? I could see the advice in
the article working for a non-technical person, like a sales guy, but who is
that passionate about working? "My dream is to come into your office five days
a week and sit at one of your desks and _work_!"

This is just more propaganda from hiring managers with a financial stake in
the hire. How are you going to negotiate salary after begging for a job for
three months?

My advice: do what you love doing, whether in your current company, or in your
copious unemployed time, then present yourself as someone who is very good at
X; don't beg.

~~~
oz
_"How are you going to negotiate salary after begging for a job for three
months?"_

That was my problem with the article as well. It puts you in a position of
weakness/subservience. Most people will take advantage.

My resume is a PDF document, black background with orange borders and text.
The pages advance like PowerPoint slides. The headings are Who I am, What I
know, What I've done. The whole thing reads like a story. In the very first
section, Who I am, I tell them that I'm evolution's gift to humanity. I carry
that same playful, yet knowledgeable attitude into the interview.

I sent it out once last year, and I'm at that job typing this now. My boss is
quite a character, so he likes that sort of thing. I'll be sending it out to
some companies this week, and see what happens.

~~~
iamdave
I'd love to take a look at this, if nothing else than to see a resume with a
twist. Do you mind? Email is in the profile

~~~
euroclydon
The about slug in your profile doesn't make any sense.

~~~
runjake
daverecruit dot sc shift+2 gmail dot com = daverecruit.sc@gmail.com.

It's not rocket science, folks.

~~~
mapleoin
although I think the reason why it was so convoluted was because he didn't
want to just write his email on a public forum for fear of spam </hint>

~~~
mortenjorck
You should try my method. It's worked like a charm so far!

~~~
nandemo
Interesting. You filter not only automated spam but also all the people who
don't know what's the capital of France.

~~~
runjake
The "capital" of France is "F". Again, it's not rocket science... oh wait, I
guess it is, he meant "capitol" whoops.

~~~
mortenjorck
<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capital>

Capitol is the actual building.

<http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capitol>

------
frossie
Good grief. I guarantee you that if anybody contacted me every week asking if
I have an unadvertised job for them, I'd file them in the "stalker" folder.

~~~
sync
You have a "stalker" folder?

~~~
amh
My current employer once interviewed someone who brought in public photos of
the departmental director and printed out webpages relating to stuff he did at
previous jobs, I guess to prove that she was interested in what we do. She
also made weird comments about visible personal possessions lying around in
cubicles. Super creepy.

She didn't get the job.

------
jseliger
This kind of thing makes me crazy: "It doesn't matter if they're not hiring."

If it's a small company... there's a good chance they're really not hiring. My
family runs a consulting business, and _our website says we're not hiring_ :
<http://seliger.com/faq.html#anchor6> . But we get people who send us e-mails
(hire me!), to which we reply, "we're not hiring," and then call us and say
the same thing, which gets a very fast hang up.

When people do this, they're wasting their time and our time. But they do it
anyway. It doesn't matter how smart you are: we're still not hiring, even if
you do this: " Learn all about them. Read every page of their website. Become
a customer. Read every article about them. Study and memorize this info."

------
ibejoeb
Derek's a bright guy, and I respect him. He doesn't even know me. To anyone
consider trying this: don't let this advice land you a restraining order. I
just thought I'd share an anecdote:

I had a applicant do this, including the "in-person" bit. The poor girl in HR
thought she had a stalker, and I didn't appreciate the incessant badgering.
Don't call from different numbers, use fake names, and state different agendas
to talk to people.

~~~
vsync
> The poor girl in HR thought she had a stalker

Sounds like she's got a bit of an ego...

------
paulreiners
To tell you the truth, I'd feel like a nut case saying something like "You are
my favorite company. It's my dream to work for you. If you have any aspect
that could use a little help, let me do it, and I promise you it'll thrive.
I'm that passionate about this."

------
ulrich
You will get hired with this approach, yes. But it is the best way to destroy
your own value. If someone is constantly asking for a job at this special
company, he is also willing to make a lot of compromises for it.

As the author stated, this is an "employer's point of view".

------
todayiamme
Perhaps he is just trying to say something else? Albeit in a really bad way.
In some ways the post is just too vague, but I see it this way; constantly
remind that organization that you are of some value, which isn't such bad
advice at the end of the day.

I recently read Dale Carengie's book. Although, I started reading it with a
WTF-Is-This? point of view, but I've fallen in love with his idea. I think
that he has an important point. People, like everyone else, that make up those
companies are only interested in themselves, in order to make them follow your
path you have to be interested in the. Instead of just kissing someone's ass
this means actually making contribution to that person be it in their work, or
personal lives.

Most of us would walk away from that article with an idea of _counterfeit_
charisma, but the real deal is something quite different. Something that all
of us sense, but cannot define. Take a look at this article he linked to
(<http://sivers.org/tom-williams>), which simply made my night. That person
had the drive and the talent to do something, but he short circuited a process
that would take years upon years to achieve, and I think that there is a
lesson in there for all of us to learn.

~~~
billswift
Which Carnegie book? I've read 2 of his; I liked _How to Stop Worrying and
Start Living_ better than the more widely known _How to Win Friends and
Influence People_ , but they are both somewhat useful.

~~~
todayiamme
I read _How to Win Friends and Influence People_.

------
Tichy
The dog picture spoils it all, or was that the point? Basically, prove you are
a good dog, and you'll be hired?

~~~
Wilfred
I assumed it was a tenacity thing -- note the dog has something in its teeth
and is presumably very reluctant to let go.

~~~
Tichy
Would perhaps have worked better for displaying tenaciousness if the something
wasn't a pink teddy bear :-)

------
dcurtis
Warning: this only works if you are genuinely good at what you do.

~~~
chime
Also, it only applies if you really really want to work for someone else. Most
people just want to make 60-120k working 40-hour weeks. If you just want to
get a job that has a high pay to work ratio, you should beef up your
resume/credentials instead. If you really really want to work hard so you can
succeed some day in the future, a startup might be your best bet.

------
zacharyz
Or you can try another approach: demonstrate value to the company by finding
solutions to problems they didn't realize they had in the first place.

If you are a designer - offer a mock up with descriptions of how your design
is an improvement.

If you are a programmer - provide bug fixes or build a feature that the
company's product lacks.

Provide value and make yourself indispensable so that they will want to hire
you before you even ask.

Don't just approach the company asking "what can I do for you?" instead
approach them with "I respect your company, here are some solutions that I
think will benefit you. Let me know if there are any other ways that I can
help."

------
motters
I'm not so certain that this is really good advice in the modern job market.
Pestering people continually may not be a great strategy. If I was the company
guy at the end of the phone taking very similar "I want a job" calls from the
same person all the time I'd be inclined to dismiss them as a loony, even if
their qualifications looked good on paper (or in an email).

In the modern era I'm not sure that it's necessarily a good idea to pin all
your hopes and job finding efforts onto a single company. Probably it's wiser
to consider a range of companies, and not appear to be suffering from OCD even
if you really do love the companies you're dealing with.

Also, from the early part of my own career I know that people who are
genuinely eager and somewhat naive can also get horribly exploited, so if
pestering succeeds then be careful that you're not just being used like a
throwaway consumable.

~~~
mattm
In my experience, it is actually better to be nonchalant about wanting to work
for a particular company. People respond better to you if they know you're
interested yet have other options.

------
uast23
I have never read a "how to get hired" book ever; and if those books sound
like this, I am so thankful that I did not read it during my college. What is
the crux of whole write-up? Is it trying to say that anybody who keeps
stalking a company receptionist/HR gets a job!!! This can give a serious
misconceptions to people who are looking for a job.

------
j_baker
Somewhat Off-topic: Assuming that I disagree with his advice to only go for
one company, is it reasonable to politely decline to answer when they ask what
other companies I'm applying with? I always feel a little bit uncomfortable
answering that question, and I can't necessarily express why.

~~~
tomjen3
Counter with: what other people are you hirering?

------
MicahWedemeyer
The approach described is ridiculous, and I'm glad to see that so many others
here on HN see it the same.

------
Arun2009
Alternatively, you could work HARD at being bloody good at what you do.

------
ufomuffin
For some types of jobs this would work, people looking for the all the time
motivated and enthusiastic, but it looks more like "how to be annoying"
manual.

------
antidaily
I'd hire someone who took this approach (assuming he/she was qualified).
They're motivated and enthusiastic. Which can be hard to find.

~~~
Tichy
Or maybe they are just really good liars.

------
zackattack
I know a guy who did this and ended up getting hired at the NHL. After 6
months of pestering, they started him as an intern; he's now an organization
man slowly climbing the corporate ladder.

------
qq66
The picture that accompanies the article is ridiculously cute (though totally
irrelevant) :)

------
mcknz
I have won bullfights in San Juan, cliff-diving competitions in Sri Lanka, and
I have earned trust in the Kremlin. I have played Hamlet, I have performed
open-heart surgery, and I have spoken to the Messiah.

But, I have never gone to college.

