
Yubari, Japan: a city learns how to die - oska
http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/aug/15/yubari-japan-city-learns-die-lost-population-detroit
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psgbg
Also I would recommend amazing post [http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/spike-
hokkaido-2/yubari-from...](http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/spike-
hokkaido-2/yubari-from-the-culture-of-coal-to-the-cult-of-caramel/)

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arm
He recently posted this as well:

[http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/yubari-
withering-...](http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/yubari-withering-
into-truth/)

(…darn, I _just_ noticed the comment by _taoquay_ ).

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psgbg
Yeah. I also saw taoquay's link. Thanks anyway.

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taoquay
The extended/uncut version of The Guardian's article can be read here:
[http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/yubari-
withering-...](http://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/yubari-withering-
into-truth/)

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ekianjo
> Yubari has other lessons for the rust-belts of the west, too, although the
> lessons may be unlearnable. There’s no graffiti, no vandalism and scarcely
> any crime. Whole years can elapse without a single felony.

This is nothing specific to Yubari. The same can be said about most small
cities in Japan.

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jaksemas
>This is nothing specific to Yubari

It's not implying that it's specific to Yubari.

It's implying that it doesn't have the crime stats that are usual in decaying
cities of the rust-belt.

Comparing decaying cities of the rust-belt with an average small city in Japan
wouldn't be fair. Comparing them with a decaying city on the other hand makes
sense.

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ekianjo
Hey even during natural disasters in japan there is no looting going around.
So why would you expect graffiti and crime to suddenly occur with reduced
population and unemployment ? It's just not in the culture in japan. Plus,
this kind of behavior usually comes from youngsters, and there are less and
less of them in Yubari so it's EVEN less likely to occur in the first place.

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Steko
Ah the "no looting in Japan" myth.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japan_earthquake_store_she...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japan_earthquake_store_shelves.jpg)

[http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2011/03/why-
no...](http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2011/03/why-no-looting-
in-japan-ctd/174307/)

FWIW the main reason there is _less_ looting in Japan is because they have
done a better job at eliminating poverty. Here's what happened before they had
done so:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Riots_of_1918](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Riots_of_1918)

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ekianjo
> Ah the "no looting in Japan" myth.

Oh, come on. In the countryside farmers put vegetables in unattended booths
for people to grab and put a coin in a hole for payment. Nobody's stealing.
Where else in the world do you see that ?

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m_mueller
In Switzerland this is very common. From my point of view, the US is rather
exceptional in terms of crime rate in a highly developed nation.

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ekianjo
Well I'm not too surprised as Japan is often referred to as "The Switzerland
of Asia", but I can tell you that in France people would steal without
thinking twice in no time.

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m_mueller
The thing is, if it's just a national thing, then it at least seems to be
'infectuous' to the foreign population - we have ~25% foreigners in
Switzerland, many of them French. If most of them would steal, farmers would
stop doing that very soon - but so far it seems to work just fine.

But hey, weighing your produce yourself at the supermarket is also a thing
here, and it works fine as well. Sometimes I think it's just a part of
society, no matter the cultural, ethnical or economical background people have
- if you trust them to "do the right thing", most suddenly feel sort of
honoured and obligated to behave the right way. If you put police everywhere
and assume people to be criminal first, they will act accordingly (test their
'freedom' as soon as noone is looking). It probably doesn't work if it's just
one farmer / supermarket doing it, but I think when it's a common part of
society, it suddenly works.

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Natsu
It sounds pretty cheap for Japan. I wonder what it would be like to work
remotely while living there?

Also, it's weird, but I love the Japanese melons even though I do not like
cantaloupe--they always taste rotten to me.

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girvo
Funny, I had the same thought about working remotely. But I wonder what the
internet is like, and I don't think I could stand the cold all year. It'd be
an interesting place for a holiday solitary retreat, a small house to go live
in during the summer months and think. Explore the wilderness, write, program.
It's a curious idea actually.

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justincormack
Hokkaido looks rather beautiful in winter
[http://www.michaelkenna.net/gallery.php?id=22](http://www.michaelkenna.net/gallery.php?id=22)

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roberthahn
Everytime I read stories about dramatically shrinking cities I wonder if
there's an opportunity to create a startup hub. The cities aren't always where
the customers are, so probably the only kind of startup that would work would
be tech related.

If a dying city invested in great internet connectivity in one neighbourhood,
offered extremely reasonable cost of living expenses (mostly cheap rent),
maybe even a tax break in the first 2-3 years of your business, would you
consider relocating to help keep your startup expenses down?

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avalaunch
I don't think it would work. If you're selecting a city to start a startup, as
opposed to starting one wherever you already are, then ideally you're going to
want a low cost of living, a high density of talent, investors, and early
adopters. This option would only offer the low cost of living. If your
business doesn't need to be physically near your customers, investors, or
talent, then you can literally setup anywhere in the world and you'd probably
be better off choosing somewhere more pleasant with an even lower cost of
living.

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bashinator
Am I alone in thinking that if Japan as a society really wants people to start
having more kids, it would start encouraging a normal 40-50 hour work week?

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jcurbo
Glad to see a Spike Japan post make it to the Guardian. It's a really good
blog and I wish it'd get published as a book or something.

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ekianjo
It was an OK article, but honestly this is nothing new in Japan or anywhere
else. This is not unheard to have villages dying in Europe with all youngsters
leaving for the cities and better job prospects while the population ages and
ultimately disappears. The matter in Japan is exarcerbated by low natality
rates but the phenomenon is really, nothing new.

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jaksemas
>This is not unheard to have villages dying in Europe

This is not a village, it's a city with a population of 120k falling down to
10k.

A population of 120k would put it as a top-5 city in any medium-sized European
country. And it is completely unimaginable that such a city would die this way
(unless it were destroyed in a war).

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xiaoma
> _A population of 120k would put it as a top-5 city in any medium-sized
> European country._

Europe only has a couple of medium-sized countries—Germany and France. 150k
people wouldn't make for a top 5 city in either. 120k people is a town, not a
city.

Clarification: Examples of large countries (both in terms of land mass and
influence) would be Russia, China, Japan, Australia, the US, Brazil, etc

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nl
_Europe only has a couple of medium-sized countries—Germany and France_

Not sure what you are using as a definition of "medium sized", but if France
and Germany are included you may want to consider the following (with roughly
the same size): Spain, Italy, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, United Kingdom, Sweden,
Norway, Finland (Turkey of course is large too, but the European part is quite
small - unlike Russia, where European part is large)

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xiaoma
Finland, Sweden and Norway have fewer people and smaller economies than some
_cities_.

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nl
I'm not sure what your point is? If you are talking population AND area you
missed a number of countries too.

Incidentally the population of the Tokyo agglomeration (39 million) isn't far
off Spain (46 million) or Ukraine (45 million) and is greater than Poland (38
million) as well as much greater than Australia (22 million). All that proves
is that there are some cities with very large populations.

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notastartup
Looks like Japan's solution is to let in more immigrants or they come up with
a robot at extremely low cost and low energy consumption.

Japan would rather have robots than immigrants but ultimately, like
immigration boom that happened in the west due to lack of indigenous
population supply, foreign workers has to come.

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1ris
I do not want to make any pro or contra immigration statement, but I think
your premise is wrong. We should all get used to shrinking. We had Growth for
the last centuries, if not millennia, now it looks like that has come to an
end, and that is not necessary a bad thing. Japan is in this regard already
living in the future, a future that will come of Europe and North America
soon, and to the rest of the world a little later.

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cmdrfred
There is only 20 people there under 15, must be lonely for those kids.

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BugBrother
Uh, from the article:

>>barely one in 20 of the population under the age of 15

>>[the population] more than halved again, to below 10,000

So 10K/20 == 500.

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cmdrfred
I'm sorry I must of misread.

