
California Court Orders Vinod Khosla to Reopen Disputed Beach - workerIbe
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/11/542827955/california-court-orders-venture-capitalist-to-reopen-disputed-beach
======
pasbesoin
Given all the years and precedent of access (throughout the State of
California), I would hope that any stay of the order pending further
litigation would be denied.

And that, if he then continues to refuse, he be jailed for contempt of court.

In my own little childhood hometown, I've watched public beach access (to a
lake) become more and more locked up behind fees and limited hours of access
and upscaling property values and home ownership that wants to keep things
quiet and for themselves.

The quiet part, I appreciate. The "keep out" part, not so much.

The childhood memories I have of times spent there, are simply no longer
possible. It's all on lockdown. Something lost in that -- something
significant, in my opinion.

------
Animats
The Zonker Harris Beach Accessway in Malibu is "closed for repairs" again.[1]
Closed for over a year now.

[1] [http://beaches.lacounty.gov/zonker-harris-accessway-
closed-f...](http://beaches.lacounty.gov/zonker-harris-accessway-closed-for-
repair/)

------
rhizome
Just so we don't go over the same thing again, Khosla's unique claim is that
the title to the land derives from a land grant from before California was a
state, with which he justifies disregarding the CCC.

 _A year after the case was filed, however, a San Mateo County Superior Court
judge dealt Friends of Martin’s Beach a setback, ruling there was no right of
access. He said the property was subject to the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe
Hidalgo, an agreement that ended the Mexican-American War and required the
United States to recognize Mexican land grants._

[http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-martins-beach-
sn...](http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-martins-beach-
snap-20161026-story.html)

~~~
option
What a pathetic creature really

------
mwnivek
Previous discussions:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14984639](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14984639)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14984770](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14984770)

------
robohamburger
I am surprised more states do not have laws like Hawaii's where you are
required to provide beach access. Shame for such a nice beach to go to waste.

~~~
khazhoux
They do. He ignores and contravenes them.

~~~
goodplay
Why isn't he thrown in jail, or why isn't the fence bulldozed down? Where I
currently live (a somewhat well-off area), bulldozers (and self-entitled
assholes) are a common occurrence.

~~~
tehlike
I wonder if the property is on his name, or some shelter company.

------
spodek
> One year later, his management companies closed the gate and put up a no-
> access sign. A billboard that had advertised beach access was painted over.

What a jerk.

~~~
JKCalhoun
Christ, what an asshole!

~~~
late2part
Have you met Vinod? He's..... intense.

~~~
dnh44
It sounds like you have a story to tell. Do tell it.

------
desireco42
Did anyone tried to organize a protest, show up en-masse on 'his' beach etc?

From what I understand, you could use a boat, show up at the beach, party and
leave with boat and you are within legal use.

------
s73ver_
So, how do we make sure that he never tries to pull this stunt again? The
level of fines the law allows doesn't seem to be doing anything.

~~~
curun1r
You could make it more than just a fight over coastal access. You could make
it so that he has more at stake than just this case. He publishes a list of
companies his firm has a financial interest in:
[http://www.khoslaventures.com/portfolio/all-
companies](http://www.khoslaventures.com/portfolio/all-companies)

If people truly care about this issue, they can organize public campaigns
against those companies as a message to founders to avoid his money or face
consequences. He may laugh off fines the court imposes, but this being a stain
on his professional reputation would be more damaging.

But it would be hard to pull off. There are some HN favorites in there. How
many people here are willing to avoid Stripe or Gitlab over beach access? He's
betting that it's not many.

~~~
nitrogen
That kind of scorched earth tactic is simply inhumane, regardless of the
target.

~~~
lovich
How is it inhumane?

~~~
nitrogen
It's barbaric overkill. It affects other parties far more than the target.
It's emblematic of a vicious vindictiveness that is unbecoming of members of a
cohesive society. It's simply disgusting to dig into unrelated matters over a
relatively petty dispute. It shows no sense of proportionality, charity, or
kindness. It is ultimately counterproductive to the creation of the kind of
world we all ought to be creating for our mutual benefit.

~~~
nitrogen
It's clear from downvotes and lack of replies that some parts of this
community have a long way to go before deserving the moral high ground the
community tries to claim.

There is no justice in mob justice.

~~~
trhway
>There is no justice in mob justice.

you can't have it both ways. The other side refused to accept the form of the
justice of the civilized society, ie. the court of law justice. Do you have
any other form of justice in mind, other than the two already mentioned - the
court of law and the mob ones? Please do tell if you do.

~~~
nitrogen
The courts have mechanisms for dealing with land access disputes and
uncooperative people, which have not been exhausted. And it's just a beach.
While coastal access is an important right, it's not worth throwing away all
the other aspects of civilized society to try to make a point.

~~~
lovich
I still don't see how it would be any different than a boycott. If it's big
enough to be successful even when the companies he funds are providing value,
then that means everyone involved is saying that stopping what he's done is
worth enough to give up on the value from those companies. Are people supposed
to just lay back and let the wealthy do what they want without a fight
anymore? It's not like violence is being advocated, just voting with your
dollar

------
simonebrunozzi
Without reading the article, I know this is Vinod Khosla. The title should
reflect that: put his name there, and save us a click to know who he is.

~~~
roflchoppa
is there a vote2edit feature? /rockthevote

------
khazhoux
I can see his point of view, though: as a rich man, he _should_ be able to do
what he wants, and lay claim to this beautiful stretch of the Pacific Ocean.

~~~
rtpg
What if Bill Gates bought the entire coastline? How does that help society?

Society has relatively little to gain from letting the super rich buy up
fundamentally scarce bits of land like this. Meanwhile making it public access
means way more people can appreciate the beach. Not like this VC is on the
beach most of the time anyways.

~~~
gotrecruit
Hmm, not to say I disagree, but let's say hypothetically, instead of providing
general public access to the beach, which is obviously a pity, the entire
coastline was sold at the appropriate price. The money, in theory, could go
into improving local infrastructure, etc, which may lead to an improvement in
quality of life for people living in that area. I'm not saying that would
happen, just entertaining the possibility that your proposed scenario could be
positive.

~~~
vidarh
It could, but once sold it might never again be accessible to the public.

I prefer the Scandinavian approach: Non built up land can be freely accessed
by anyone regardless of owner in most cases, and the coast is by default
protected against people building down to it in Norway at least. Dispensations
do get given, but if you block access without applying for planning consent,
it _will_ be struck down.

The basis is simple: Restricting access to a scarce resource like the land is
equivalent to taking away or liberty. This is a right we've had since time
immemorial - in Sweden it's a constitutional right. In Norway it was not
codified into law until the 60's as it used to be seen as so self-evident that
it wasn't necessary.

------
fizixer
Why is a beach up for sale if it's not up for private gating?

(Why doesn't California declare its coastline public property that is not-for-
sale?)

edit: Just found out the answer. Beaches themselves are never for sale, even
though properties right up to the edge of the beach are. Next question: Are
all river banks public property too? Can you not build a manufacturing plant
at a river bank? What about lakes? Are lakes public property?

~~~
toufka
Many places consider the land below the high-water line of navigable waterways
to be public (in midwest US at least). So if you're canoeing down the river
and eat lunch on the bank, you're generally not trespassing. Smaller lakes are
generally not considered navigable, though I'm not sure how it works for huge
lakes like Michigan. I suspect a similar 'high-water' line is relevant.

You'd truly be pretty dense if you wanted to build a permenant structure
_below_ the high water mark.

~~~
molsongolden
This holds true in most of the west as well and provides access for river
paddlers/floaters/fishermen.

