
Ask HN: Why won't you quit a job you hate? - dbanisimov
For people who are bored at work, especially at big FAANG companies, why won&#x27;t you make a switch?<p>Salary is a big factor for sure, but given an already good pay for technical talent why not to take a small pay cut and join a mission-driven startup, where you can be aligned in values and have an impact and growth?
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GreenJelloShot
1) Startups suck. They will work you to death all for the promise that maybe
it will pay off one day (but probably won't.)

2) I don't want to work for a "mission-driven" company. What does that even
mean? Most companies lie about their mission anyways. They want to make money,
not save the planet.

3) There is not a company out there that is "aligned" with my values. I value
free time. I value spending time with my family and friends. I value doing
separate things from work.

4) I do not care about having "impact" or about "growth". Been there; done
that. It is overrated. Building up a company's value so that the executives
get bigger & bigger bonuses does not motivate me at all.

If you are able to change the world, build your own company. Don't work for
someone else and let them take the credit. If you can't change the world, then
stop pretending you can. Work, get paid, and then go home and spend some
quality time with your loved ones. Stop trying to trick me into wasting my
limited time left by slaving for other people.

~~~
Mobius01
This is a great answer, particularly the point about your environment and how
much you value your own time. I’ve come to accept that if I want to work on
impactful work, I have to do it on my own. At a corporate job, I’m perfectly
fine doing 9-5 with excellence and leaving the mission-driven ladder climbing
for others.

Survivorship bias is problem with startup stories. You will hear the great
success stories of the few standing on the carcasses of the vast majority that
burned out and crashed.

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muzani
FAANG is very much above average. Many startups are very much below average.
Statistically, quitting a FAANG to join a startup is just a bad idea. The only
reason to do so is that FAANG has a lower career cap. Even then, the cap on
FAANG is much higher than, say, starting a restaurant.

At startups you generally deal with less smarter colleagues, spending months
putting out fires that stem from hacky code designs, and dealing with many
absent bosses who are just there for passive income.

Many startups try to look mission driven, but what drives most of them is just
growth. The more growth oriented ones might be dishonest. If you think
Facebook is unethical, watch what happens to a startup running on 3 months
runway, trying to raise a new round. You also have to deal with pivots, often
by bosses who literally don't know the meaning of the word and just bounce
aimlessly between different things.

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apohn
I'm one of those people who used to work in a "mission-driven." job. As part
of burning out and walking the slow road to recovery, I started to feel a lot
of "mission-driven" people are really selfish ladder-climbers who are
fantastic at marketing themselves and their mission. I'm not even sure if they
actually believe in what they are doing outside of inflating their own
ego/prestige/whatever.

I'm not at FAANG and I don't earn anywhere near FAANG money. I know the above
is really jaded and skeptical view of things. But I suspect more than a few
people feel what I feel after a few years in the workforce.

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AnimalMuppet
"Bored" != "hate".

If you're getting good money, and your management is relatively sane, and you
like the people you work with, think twice before you leave. I've been around
enough to know that you can easily wind up in a much worse situation.

~~~
downerending
You haven't lived until you've had a psychopath as a boss and for whatever
reason they've decided they don't like you.

Do you feel lucky?

~~~
apohn
Or they could really like you and make you the first person they call with
their insanity and high priority tasks.

Either way, you're in for a bad time.

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potta_coffee
Honestly? The job search + interview process is way too painful. I feel like
I'm a good problem solver, I've made really good impact at the jobs I've been
at but landing jobs is difficult for me. I tend to stick around til the job is
more painful than interviewing.

~~~
dbanisimov
Agree here. The standard practice of structured interviews is just no fun for
me, although I see why it works for many companies.

Did you do any research on the companies beforehand or had a set of criteria
to ensure that the job won't turn out painful next time?

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claudiulodro
Almost none of the startups I see hiring in my area have
interesting/worthwhile "missions".

No, I don't want to "reinvent how companies handle employee wellness perks" or
"help find people the right credit cards and mortgage rates" (real quotes from
startups in my area). That stuff seems worse than what I'm working on now.

~~~
jborichevskiy
Not sure if you've seen 80,000 Hours (Effective Altruism) but they have a job
board [0] for companies with more directed/focused missions and are overall a
good resource.

[https://80000hours.org/job-board/](https://80000hours.org/job-board/)

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inertiatic
I work for a startup, but I'm bored.

The biggest hurdle to overcome when wanting to switch jobs, for me and for all
the people I know, is going through the interview process.

This isn't the sort of discussion you're looking for.

But I'd say for most people who are bored at work, working on a CRUD app in a
startup isn't going to be intellectually stimulating.

~~~
dbanisimov
I'm a bit surprised to see folks mentioning interviews. Sure they suck, but HN
crowd should just be crushing them.

And given the heated market employers should already streamline the process
for their advantage.

~~~
taurath
You should definitely check some of the threads over the last 5 years on HN
around interviewing. My personal rule of thumb is even if I'm 110% qualified
for a position, landing a good job as an engineer requires 1-2 months of hard
leetcode study. Then, assuming a good personality, no red flags, you get up to
a 50-60% chance of passing any given interview.

Its incredibly time consuming and can also be quite stressful and
dehumanizing, as you'll be leaving a lot of interview rooms thinking you're an
imposter when the process is just awful.

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JanAcai
In my case, the answer is: my job pays my bills, while I work on my startup
after hours. Also, as many mentioned, standard interviews are so much pain.

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maps7
I am 90% sure I would fail any interview I went for so I am pretty sure I am
stuck where I am :)

But being serious.. the thought of preparing for an interview is so
demotivating. I do good work and I am good at pretty much anything I do in my
current job but I don't match any job descriptions I see. I've moved out of a
pure coding role in my current job but that is what I would like to apply for.

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solveit
Not what you were looking for, but I would be conscripted into the military if
I quit this job.

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seattle_spring
Define "small paycut." Mid level engineers at FB and its ilk are pulling in
400k+ including RSUs and bonus. You'd be hard pressed to get even a very
senior position at a small startup that pays even half that in real cash.

~~~
dbanisimov
Let's say 20-30% discount on salary and potentially a bigger equity upside
than a big CO. I haven't seen startup giving out cash bonuses.

~~~
seattle_spring
Heh... Potentially bigger upside, but 99.9999999999% chance they're worth
nothing. So, risk adjusted, more than a 50% paycut.

No thanks.

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CyberFonic
If you read any articles about VCs you'll note that most startups fail and
even when they don't the multiple investment rounds dilute any stock you might
have been granted. They don't call the rare exceptions "unicorns" for nothing.

Besides, it's not salary that is the trap, but _Lifestyle_. Most people's
lifestyles expand to consume their increasing salaries, so taking even a
reasonable pay-cut means big changes to lifestyle ... and the loss of bragging
rights of working for one of the FAANGs.

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itronitron
Maybe people who are bored at work should focus a bit on helping one of their
coworkers. They are likely to get a lot more insight to the company and
possibly value their own job a lot more.

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neuroticfish
Why would a company and a person ever have aligned values, unless that person
owns/runs that company? Companies are ultimately tethered to the will of its
stakeholders and the stakeholders only hold stake because they expect a return
on investment. People value things like family, travel, friendships, romance,
spirituality, pursuit of passion, personal fulfillment etc. Why would a
company ever value these things?

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throwaway98320
Nah, the whole point of working for someone else is it lowers your own risk,
have a good salary and a stable income. If mission and purpose is that
important, might as well accept the full risk and work on your own idea.
Assuming you have the qualifications to get a FAANG job, taking a pay cut to
burn yourself out at a start-up where you get peanuts when the start-up sells
just seems like the worst of both worlds.

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anonyfelon
My screen name says it all. I have top-notch skills, but I will be forever
haunted by white-collar crimes I committed over 20 years ago, and have even
been pardoned for.

I stay with the company I hate (love the job, hate the politics) because it's
almost insurmountably hard to get a good job somewhere else.

The pay is just okay here, but if someone else would give me a chance, I could
easily make 20%+ somewhere else, for the same work.

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probinso
I have happily quit several jobs. As long as I have 6 months of living
expenses (including insurance costs) saved I feel able to quit. This time
would likely increase once I have family relations.

It helps that I enjoy the interview process and don't find it taxing, which I
seem to be alone in.

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marm7
Money

