
The Hotel Industry’s Plan to Combat Airbnb - uyoakaoma
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hotel-industrys-plan-to-combat-airbnb.html
======
bogomipz
So the hotel industry's plan revolves solely around more legislation and
regulation?

How about competing by innovating and providing the consumer with a better or
improved experience?

Does the industry really believe that theres nothing they can do to improve on
the consumer experience? It feels like its changed very little if at all over
the years.

How about stop charging $15.00 a day for internet. It's 2017 charging for
internet like charging for power in the room.

How about getting rid of inflexible checkin/checkout times?

How about lobbying local governments to reduce the exorbitant double digit
taxes and fees consumers pay on hotels stays instead.[1]

Example tax rates:

18.27% New York City

17.76% Nashville

17% Houston and Indianapolis

16.75% San Antonio, TX and Columbus, OH

[1] [http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/understanding-
hotel...](http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/understanding-hotel-taxes)

~~~
ithinkinstereo
> Does the industry really believe that theres nothing they can do to improve
> on the consumer experience? It feels like its changed very little if at all
> over the years.

You must not travel alot, or at least not in the US. There has actually been a
lot of innovation amongst the big brand chains in recent years. Hilton for
example allows online/app check-in/check-out and they've been aggressively
rolling out digital room key compatibility across their properties (via
bluetooth in the app). This has allowed me in recent stays to completely avoid
the front desk / human interaction - from check-in to check-out.

> How about stop charging $15.00 a day for internet. It's 2017 charging for
> internet like charging for power in the room.

WiFi is mostly free for most of major chains in the US (Hilton, Marriott, IHG)
- especially their secondary brands (Hampton Inns, Springfield Suites,
Courtyard, etc.). Those that charge usually offer it for free to members of
their loyalty/points programs.

These days, I mostly see paid-internet in the top tier hotel brands in tier-
one cities. Think the Ritz in NYC, etc. Again the internet is usually free for
members of their frequent traveller programs.

> How about getting rid of inflexible checkin/checkout times?

All the major brands have check-in / check-out flexibility. I've never been
denied late check-out requests, especially with advance notice. Most hotels
will allow early check-ins no problem and most chains allow you to request
this via the web / app.

Early check-in / late check-out is also typically _guaranteed_ for elite
members of their frequent travel programs (at least this is the case for
Hilton and Marriott).

> How about lobbying local governments to reduce the exorbitant double digit
> taxes and fees consumers pay on hotels stays instead.[1]

It's worth remembering that those taxes go towards meeting various regulatory
requirements, like ensuring safety standards, etc.... things it's important to
remember that AirBnB lacks. If all AirBnBs are required to have working fire
alarms for example, I'm sure AirBnB will tack on a "safety" fee, just like
Uber did when they had to do driver background checks.

As a frequent traveler (so far over 40 hotel stays this year), I always prefer
a hotel to an AirBnB. It is 100x more convenient for mostly a marginal
difference.

Pro-tip: for hilton properties use hiltonfamilymvp.com for 10-30% off the rack
rates.

~~~
bogomipz
>You must not travel alot, or at least not in the US."

I spend a little over half a year on the road. I've recently been charged for
internet at an Omni, a Wyndham, and a Westin hotel in the U.S.

>"All the major brands have check-in / check-out flexibility. I've never been
denied late check-out requests, especially with advance notice. Most hotels
will allow early check-ins no problem and most chains allow you to request
this via the web / app."

I am referring to being able to specify my checkin and checkout time when I
book. All of the online reservations systems I have used still mandate 3:00PM
check in. I am not talking about picking up the phone and calling the front
desk after I am already in the room.

>"It's worth remembering that those taxes go towards meeting various
regulatory requirements, like ensuring safety standards, etc.... things it's
important to remember that AirBnB lacks."

Really 15% of a $300 dollar a night hotel for 3 days(roughly $135) goes to
meeting safety inspections? None of the $300 a night goes towards meeting
that?

I'm sorry but I don't think that a hotel having an app for your smartphone is
some great innovation in the industry.

~~~
ithinkinstereo
> I spend a little over half a year on the road. I've recently been charged
> for internet at an Omni, a Wyndham, and a Westin hotel in the U.S.

Your experience is really becoming more and more less common. I would say,
especially so for a frequent traveller such as yourself. Just in the past 4
weeks I've visited the following cities: * Boston * San Francisco * New York
area * Atlanta * Denver * Houston

Free internet the whole trip. Stayed in a mix of Hilton and Marriott
properties (Hilton, HGI, Hampton, Doubletree, Springfield Suites, Towneplace
Suites, and Marriott Courtyard) with one stay at a Holiday Inn.

If you travel so much, you should really get on the various frequent travel
programs that the hotel chains offer. In fact, one of the hotels you stayed
at, Westin, provides free wifi if you're enrolled in SPG's rewards program
(you don't even need to have status). This has been the policy since 2015 (1).

> I am referring to being able to specify my checkin and checkout time when I
> book. All of the online reservations systems I have used still mandate
> 3:00PM check in. I am not talking about picking up the phone and calling the
> front desk after I am already in the room.

Yes, Hilton allows you to specify the check-in times and also ask for late
check-out via their app. Most, if not all, hotel chains also allow you make
additional requests via a comments field when you make the booking on the web.
In any case, making a quick phone call is really not that much of a hassle,
and not that much _more_ convenient than sending a message to your host on
AirBnB.

> Really 15% of a $300 dollar a night hotel for 3 days(roughly $135) goes to
> meeting safety inspections? None of the $300 a night goes towards meeting
> that?

Taxes cover many costs, some portion of it, likely due to regulations.
Bringing up the room rate is a bit of a misdirection, that rate is determined
a host of variables, of which regulations is likely not one (or really low on
the list). In any case, AirBnB tacks on a litany of fees to their "rack rate".
I'm not sure what your point here - the hotels don't set the taxes...

> I'm sorry but I don't think that a hotel having an app for your smartphone
> is some great innovation in the industry.

Well your original complaint was that the hotel industry is not innovating,
and you cite things like charging for wifi and not being able to check-in
early / check-out late as supporting evidence.

I'm highlighting to you all the various things that the hotel industry is
currently doing to "innovate". It's not just about having an app, its about
the various features and functionalities that the app offers, which as a
consequence, brings "innovation" to the user experience. At my recent Hilton
stays, I was able to do everything (book a room, check-in, choose my room,
unlock my door, check-out, receive my invoice, etc.) without any human contact
involved at all. How is that not innovation?

Honestly, I'm pretty surprised that you hold these views given that you travel
"a little over half the year". I would highly suggest you: 1) Enroll in each
hotel chains' customer loyalty program; 2) Try to focus your stays in one/two
chains as to build status. Also, take some time to do some basic research.
Lots of popular travel blogs to start with and you always have FlyerTalk to
default back to if you're into the discussion board format.

I started my career as a management consultant traveling every week (one year
I had over 175 hotel stays!) and find myself traveling nearly as much in my
current job. In the US at least, the hotel industry has changed/innovated,
quite a bit in the past decade. I'm confidant that if you post your views on
say FlyerTalk, people will back up my points.

1\.
[https://spgpromos.com/internet/?action=main.faq](https://spgpromos.com/internet/?action=main.faq)

~~~
bogomipz
>". I would highly suggest you: 1) Enroll in each hotel chains' customer
loyalty program; "

Why do I need to sign up for every individual hotel's loyalty program in order
to receive "special treatment" when those things are a considered basic
amenities and practices elsewhere? Why do they need to be part of "special
program"? Creating some artificial status is not really innovation.

>"I'm confidant that if you post your views on say FlyerTalk, people will back
up my points."

Now why would I do that? I'm not competing with you. This was a discussion.

There are a lot of people innovating in business today. I don't think for most
people hotel chains would be there first thought as an experience that has
changed with the times.

~~~
ithinkinstereo
> Why do I need to sign up for every individual hotel's loyalty program in
> order to receive "special treatment" when those things are a considered
> basic amenities and practices elsewhere? Why do they need to be part of
> "special program"? Creating some artificial status is not really innovation.

You're shifting the argument and haven't really addressed all the other
examples I've cited for how the hotel industry is trying to innovate. If you
can't be bothered to take a few minutes to sign-up for some programs, then I
guess you'll have to keep on paying for WiFi and complaining about it on
online forums :P

Plus these customer loyalty programs are pretty much par for the course in
every travel industry - and soon I'm sure - will be adopted by AirBnB as well.
United MileagePlus program for example has existed for like 30 years... so
it's not like this is a new phenomena. I'm sure there are other customer
loyalty programs that predate that.

The "I hate doing this and don't see a reason to do it" argument is not very
convincing. You're projecting.

> Now why would I do that? I'm not competing with you. This was a discussion.

It's a discussion in the sense that we're both talking, but you're not really
addressing any of the points or examples I've cited. If you dislike hotel
chains, so be it, but clearly hotels are trying to innovate and have innovated
in the past decade.

You might want to consult FlyerTalk because that forum is geared towards
frequent travelers, like yourself, and frequented by subject matter experts.
If you're open to learning about how the industry is innovating, I'm sure you
find even better examples than the ones I've provided.

> There are a lot of people innovating in business today. I don't think for
> most people hotel chains would be there first thought as an experience that
> has changed with the times.

I agree with you, but don't you see that you're shifting the argument? Your
original point is that hotels are not innovating. Now it has shifted to: the
hotel industry is not as innovate as other industries.

------
wakkaflokka
Reading through the comments, I feel like I might be one of the few that
prefer AirBnB not for money savings, but because they always feel more
authentic to me.

I've been to several different countries in the past year, and have stayed at
AirBnB's every time. Sure, there were some issues here and there that would
not have occurred at a hotel. But I'll be damned if it wasn't nice to stay
nestled into the local neighborhoods, and meet (and sometimes drink) with the
hosts, who were always gracious and helpful in pointing out the best places to
check out that are off-the-beaten-path.

For what it's worth, dedicated buildings for AirBnB's really rub me the wrong
way, because it often takes away from the charming/local feel of the
place/host. I try to avoid booking places like this.

~~~
yardie
> they always feel more authentic to me.

This might have been the case early on in AirBnB's existence. Now most of the
places I've been able to find are just small-time hoteliers. The owner may
have half dozen listings in Airbnb with the same generic IKEA furniture.

I've gone back to regular hotels. While I really enjoyed AirBnB in the past
there were too many hit or miss experiences. I've had a few owners pull our
reservation at the last minute.

~~~
magic_beans
I've stayed in that kind of generic AirBnB, and even those are way better than
a hotel. You're still staying in an apartment, which feels more homey, and you
still have access to a kitchen.

I've also stayed in truly fantastic AirBnB apartments in Europe that made my
short stays feel like I was staying with a dear friend.

The most exquisite AirBnB I stayed in was in Croatia. The owner set up the
apartment like a hotel, but offered homemade liqueurs and chocolates to his
guests. He even picked us up from the train station and gave us a list of
places to go and restaurants to try. The rate was insanely affordable, too.

~~~
koolba
How much was it and how much was a "nice" hotel?

~~~
magic_beans
It was 60 euros total a night, split between two people. Nice hotels were at
least 200 euros per night.

------
ithinkinstereo
AirBnBs are fantastic until you have a bad experience. When that happens, you
realize how little recourse and options you have; you're basically screwed and
need to scramble for solutions. This is not so bad when you're on a vacation
and have some flexibility. It is 100% a total nightmare when traveling for
work and have other responsibilities to attend to.

Hotels have the advantage of: 1) Consistent product quality 2) Established
process and channels for addressing complaints 3) Recourse when things go
wrong

AirBnBs have the advantage of: 1) Cost, cost, cost 2) Uniqueness in
accommodation environments 3) Greater flexibility (especially as it relates to
cost) in terms of location and specific accommodation needs (kitchen, multiple
beds, etc.)

Those who rave about AirBnB, I suspect, have never had a really bad
experience. I used to AirBnB all the time, but a few bad experiences really
turned me off on the whole platform. You get what you pay for, and with
hotels, that extra cost provides "insurance" for when things go south.

These days I'll occasionally AirBnB when on vacation if the costs are
significantly lower than a hotel (and this is only ever the case if you're
booking relatively last moment). Never on business trips - only if there are
literally no other accommodations (at sane prices), which is only ever the
case when booking last minute in specific cities (SF, NYC, Tokyo, etc.).

~~~
Arwill
This is exactly the feeling i've got too. After a couple of weeks in various
apartments i stopped using AirBnB and went back to staying in Hotels. This was
in 2015, it might have changed since then, but then AirBnB wasn't issuing an
invoice. Since i was travelling for work, good documentation of costs is
necessary, and i don't wan't to argue with my accountant each time i tried to
pass some printed page from AirBnB site as "invoice" or "receipt". Ryanair
also does not issue an invoice, and i've only once done the mistake of buying
a ticket from them. I have not yet had a hotel so far that refused to issue an
invoice for the company when i requested it so.

On a side note, both AirBnB and Ryanair had the "company name and address"
fields on their web-forms, which made me believe those data will be used for
printing an invoice, but those are not used nor displayed ever after being
entered. What a deception.

This is some kind of misery that Irish companies do. Companies that are based
in Ireland operate by Irish law, and it seems that Irish law does not require
them to issue an invoice. I don't know how much money AirBnB and Ryanair are
saving by not providing a printable PDF invoice on their sites, but they might
just be losing customers from other EU countries where the invoice was and is
the basic document of business transactions.

Then there is the rest of the problems with AirBnB. I absolutely needed an
apartment with stable internet connection, to be able to work remotely. I was
promised that, but when i got there it wasn't working. I was told to "restart
the router", well it didn't help either. So i had to buy a 50EUR data-stick
with crappy slow internet to be able to connect. Most hotels are not better in
this regard either, but with hotels i can at least avoid the bad ones. With
AirBnB each apartment is a new unique situation. Maybe it has bad wifi, maybe
its smelly, maybe its without air-conditioning, maybe the neighbors are noisy.
Like the previous poster wrote, hotels provide a more consistent service.

------
jupiter90000
So, haven't people been doing things like short-term rentals with their
condos, spare rooms, etc for quite a while without Airbnb using things like
VRBO, craigslist, other websites, newspaper ads, word-of-mouth, etc? Was the
hotel industry very upset about people doing those things before Airbnb and
lobbying against it because it was concerned these rentals didn't follow
exactly the same regulations hotels did? I can't seem to find information
about that, although it wouldn't surprise me.

What seems to be actually happening though is now there is a successful and
popular marketplace for this type of rental that has gained alot of traction
(Airbnb), and under the guise of 'safety, standards, etc' the hotel lobby is
fighting (to actually try to get their large share of the market back).

I don't necessarily think laws and regulations are bad to have in place as it
often protects the consumers. But for the hotel industry to pretend this is
their motive is inauthentic, just be honest that it's about the money. What
disgusts me about all this is the corporate speak that goes under the guise of
values and concern for customers (same could be said of Airbnb marketing
lingo).

~~~
mcbruiser3
Agreed. Why not let the consumers vote with their dollars, and let the free
market do its thing?

~~~
noja
Because if you got rid of the regulations fire-trap accommodation would come
back.

~~~
mcbruiser3
.. and people will stop going there. the problem resolves itself.

~~~
ceejayoz
Except the problem clearly didn't resolve itself last time, resulting in
people dying, resulting in fire safety regulations.

------
ouesp
Having used AirBnB for a while, I now prefer to stay in a hotel. Staying in
AirBnB I don't feel safe at all and 80% of the AirBnB's I stayed had one
problem or the other. There is no importance given for the safety or even a
proper door. I dont want to deal with problems when I stay somewhere for
pleasure or business. And No, I dont want to read hundreds of reviews before I
make my decision. I am back to hotel stays. I hope their lobbying finds
success.

~~~
DINKDINK
>I hope their lobbying finds success.

Your opinion piece is fine until your last line where you support using the
state to ban other people from making the choice that you prefer not to make.

~~~
nommm-nommm
You can't sell an unsafe car. You can't run an unsafe restaurant. You can't
build an unsafe building. You can't rent an unsafe home. You can't drive in an
unsafe manner. You can't allow an unsafe number of people in your business.
You can't run an unsafe salon. You can't practice medicine in an unsafe
manner. You can't sell unsafe food.

And you can't run an unsafe hotel.

~~~
tim333
Your usual airbnb property is not "an unsafe hotel." My flat is presently
being let on airbnb and isn't suddenly unsafe because someone else is in it
rather than me.

~~~
nommm-nommm
So your flat has been inspected by the hotel commission and your hotel permit
is displayed in a prominent location in your flat and you've kept logs of all
required maintenance and I can view your flat's inspection records?

~~~
exergy
Huh? Why does he have to do that? I can understand being suspicious of those
who actually come and STAY in the Airbnb, but to use your line of argument
against the person renting out the room makes no sense to me. What exactly
does the hotel permit specify? That the toilet is clean? That the building is
structurally sound?

~~~
amyjess
Among others, that it meets fire codes.

Just wait until an AirBNB customer dies in a fire because the property didn't
meet fire safety requirements. AirBNB probably wouldn't survive the fallout.

~~~
magic_beans
One AirBnB customer DID die from an unsafe tree-swing on the property:
[https://medium.com/matter/living-and-dying-on-
airbnb-6bff8d6...](https://medium.com/matter/living-and-dying-on-
airbnb-6bff8d600c04)

------
DennisP
For two crazy seconds I thought this would involve figuring out how to better
compete in the marketplace.

~~~
Cshelton
This article reads just like the combustion vehicle/car dealership articles...
"It's not fair what Tesla is doing! We need the government to step in and
secure our position in the market."

The younger generation is not buying it and it is a huge turnoff. I've been
using AirBnB for some time and have never had a serious issue. It has allowed
me to sacrifice some of the things you get with a hotel for typically a lower
costs and the opportunity to stay in many places that are not considered a
"tourist" area, which is my favorite part.

There are many places a typical hotel chain can innovate and actually offer
very similar things to AirBnB. They can identify the target market of AirBnB,
which is typically either the younger traveler or people who like to explore
the cities in different areas than where hotels are. Hotel chains can build
little annexes, maybe similar to a hostel, inside neighborhoods, where they
can have 4-5 rooms and use the main hotel as the check in/out, other
amenities. And at that level they can compete with AirBnB very well.

As far as the hotel tax, I can't say every city requires it, but almost all
the AirBnBs' I've stayed at recently has a city hotel tax. So they are doing
well working with local governments. So to the hotel chains...good luck
fighting that, most cities have already worked it out.

At the end of the day, AirBnB is just a market place that connects private
citizens with each other. One citizen is letting another use their place for a
price. That's it. Same as Uber... how do you ban a person from giving somebody
else a ride. It's not the governments jurisdiction. Stay Out.

~~~
gergles
Oh, don't start with that "it's just a guy helping out another guy" nonsense.
Airbnb is a gigantic business, and the 'hosts' are also businesses, and have
to accept regulation as such. Of course it is the governments' jurisdiction to
regulate the safety, sanitation, and other relevant laws that relate to paid
lodging no matter who the person is offering said paid lodging.

Airbnb rentals (in the overwhelming majority of cases) aren't me sharing my
couch with my best friend while he's in town, this is me letting a stranger
come into my house and stay here for money. Acting like those are equivalent
situations diminishes your argument.

~~~
Cshelton
This is where you and I will never come to an agreement:

You quickly jump to the government to regulate and essentially run every
aspect of your life and the decisions you make.

I would argue that there is no place what-so-ever for government regulation in
the market that AirBnB hosts' participate in. It is self regulating. If AirBnB
is deceptive or unfair in their marketplace of listings, people will stop
using it. If AirBnB is unfair to hosts, hosts will stop renting their place on
AirBnB. If a place is not safe/sanitary/etc., and AirBnB still allows it to be
listed, people will have a bad AirBnB experience and stop using AirBnB and/or
that renter. AirBnB has the motivation to make all hosts follow a certain
level of expectation to avoid the above. Otherwise AirBnB will go out of
business. And with places that violate building regulations/etc., the city is
already responsible for that, whether the host lives there themselves or rents
it out.

And yes, it is as simple as a PRIVATE citizen renting out their location to
another PRIVATE citizen. The fact that it is not my buddy sleeping on the
couch but some stranger is up to the HOST. They have the freedom to choose if
they want to rent their place out on the market place to a stranger or not.
That is what is so great about a free market, it is NOT up to you or the
GOVERNMENT. Same as any person has the choice to stay at an AirBnB or a hotel,
or anything else they find...hell..go camping. The point here is that it is
NOT the governments job to step in and not allow a choice that somebody is
WILLING to make. Just because you may find AirBnB unfitting does not make it
wrong and should not be illegal. Hotels have no business lobbying to ban this
practice and it's indicative of them that they are not willing to even once
sit down and think, how can we better serve and compete against the target
market of AirBnB. It's pretty damn simple. I even listed above something they
could look at. Other commentators have made the same point and other things
the hotel industry could do. But no... what do they do... turn to the
government. Government regulation is NOT the solution here. It is pretty
sickening that so many people turn to government to regulate something at the
first sign of something not being perfect.

I am legitimately curious, have you ever walked into a hotel room and it was
disgusting? Did you immediately leave and complain to the hotel manager? Did
you contact the city the hotel was in and tell them the hotel was not clean?
Did you tell the city they should make more regulations on how a hotel should
be?

OR, if you happen to go to a hotel that was not clean, or anything else that
was not up to your standards of what a hotel should be. Did you stay there
still? Did you ever come back to that hotel on another trip.

My point is YOU made a decision what to do based on what you were willing to
pay. That is called a free market. Not a government regulates everything
market. Other people may have been willing to stay in the hotel above at a
given price.

~~~
yardie
> If a place is not safe/sanitary/etc., and AirBnB still allows it to be
> listed, people will have a bad AirBnB experience and stop using AirBnB
> and/or that renter.

Well that's one way to regulate a market. But those are soft regulations. You
do those things because the market demands it.

There are not so soft regulations, these are done because the market wouldn't
know enough about them to demand it. Like making sure the fire suppression
system is actually installed, inspected, and functional. The fire exits aren't
locked the wrong way. I assume you test each smoke detector in your rental
before handing over money?

While you have a problem with regulations some of them don't bother me. I live
near the beach. 50 years ago I wouldn't be allowed to set foot on it because
of my skin. It seems silly now but the gov't came in with teeth and said, "hey
what you are doing isn't right." The market was rewarding these hotels for
being racist shitheels. Gov't regulation put a bullet in it.

------
YCode
Before I even opened the article I knew it was going to be a legislative
rather than customer-focused approach.

God forbid hotels recognize their inherent strengths and AirBnB's weaknesses
and cater their services/marketing to that end.

~~~
ape4
Hotels have lots of advantages. Often better location: downtown. A 24-hour
desk. You can ask for info. Get deliveries. They can give you extra soap if
you run out... without emailing some guy. Ask them to get you a taxi (yes I
know about Uber), etc.

~~~
neuland
But those advantages don't seem to be of interest to some segment of
customers. So, there's clearly some issue with competition.

~~~
SomeStupidPoint
But some portion of that is the cost of compliance with safety, which AirBNB
skips.

There's no reason we shouldn't require things that are effectively hotel rooms
to comply with hotel safety regulations.

If AirBNB can only operate by violating the law, why should we support their
business model?

~~~
volkl47
Actually, there is plenty of reason they shouldn't have to abide by the same
regulations.

We have the rules we have for hotels because they're typically large buildings
with many rooms (often smaller than even the minimum dwelling size for private
apartments) and that density presents significant safety hazards to many
people should anything happen, not just you. You being in a 100sf room on the
11th floor makes it very hard to not have you die if there's a fire,
especially when there's hundreds of you to evacuate.

There's no reason that someone say...renting out a detached single story house
should need anything more than a working smoke/CO detector.

~~~
exodust
Exactly. The concern about lack of safety is paranoia at best. If the door
locks, the smoke alarm is on, and power outlets not hanging from the wall,
appliances in working order etc, then there's not much else to worry about.

For my recent Airbnb stay I couldn't fault it. Was more than I expected and
great value.

I'm tired of over-priced hotels with boring rooms and mandatory daily room
service. I want the option of not having my bed made and towels replaced every
day. Stay out of my room until I check out!

~~~
seangrogg
Most have "Do Not Disturb" / "Do Not Service" signs you can hang from the door
to indicate that you're not interested in your room service being performed;
often makes housekeeping's life that much easier.

------
kylehotchkiss
"the hotel cartel is intent on short-sheeting the middle class so they can
keep price-gouging consumers,"

Well... maybe. After staying in about 10 airbnbs total, I'd generally prefer a
hotel room.

* Hotels are generally clean. I still always check them before I get into them, but I've yet to find a hotel with "gross" sheets. I don't worry much about the showers either

* Hotels have parking! This is nice for the driver in me

* Hotels are safe. The door locks and general consensus that cameras are not good help me sleep better

* Hotels are generally somewhat flexible with room changes if they have availability

That all said, you're going to have to pay >$100/night to get that level of
service from a hotel but that works for me

~~~
pitaj
It's really what you pay for.

------
exabrial
1) Prosecute and inform local law enforcement. If you have a rental property
exclusively used for Airbnb, it's likely illegal.

Adam ruins everything:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGLe0Wgfbyk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGLe0Wgfbyk)

~~~
Shivetya
My question to the HN community is, when does AirBnB cross into the out of
favor status that a disruptive service like Uber has? If not any similar.

While regulation is nice there are many cases where it serves no purpose other
than to prevent competition.

With regards to AirBnb a friend who rents home says its not common for
contracts to forbid AirBnb and similar services and he does check sites to see
if tenants are violating the rule.

~~~
monkmartinez
By the looks of the comments, I would say ABB is already on its way out of
favor. As a Firefighter, I will not stay in an ABB... nope.

~~~
nommm-nommm
Can you elaborate?

~~~
exabrial
Minimal maintenance, no inspections on safety equipment, and the owner isn't
there to notice strange smells (Ozone (electrical problems), Gas, chemical
leakage, mold, etc), no compliance with local code.

------
makecheck
AirBNB seems to be combating _itself_ just as much, frankly.

Take this idea that an AirBNB host can set pretty much _any_ service/cleaning
fee, which is _not_ factored in to search-by-price and not even _displayed_
until you click a property. This basically makes the entire concept of a
“price” meaningless in search results, and I quickly grew tired of having to
click into every single property just to figure out the “real” price before
returning to the search results page.

And price is far from the only way that a property can be misleading.

I don’t think the hotel industry has much to worry about.

~~~
rublev
I don't get AirBnB at all. The concept is just downright creepy and has always
been to me. It feels like you're flipping a coin when staying somewhere with
respect to neighbours, cleanliness, and the area.

I much rather pay for a hotel where everything is 100% taken care of, and
usually the prices are on par with AirBnB. There's no mental overhead with
hotels. If it worked like Uber where the slightest hiccup gives you a full
refund, then sure I'd put up with the hassle.

~~~
dkarl
_usually the prices are on par with AirBnB_

This varies a lot from city to city. In Austin, AirBNB easily wins (last time
I checked) on location and niceness for the price. Hotel prices are
exorbitant. Recently I traveled to Houston, though, and was shocked to find
that hotels were price-competitive with AirBNB. My girlfriend and I expected
to rent an AirBNB but ended up staying in a pretty nice hotel for less than
$150 a night. AirBNB prices in Houston were similar to Austin with much less
selection and not the greatest locations, so the convenience and
predictability of a hotel won out. (Friends staying in Austin have had almost
all positive AirBNB experiences, but there have been a couple of unexpectedly
poor experiences as well.)

I think that as with ride-sharing versus taxis, the greatest disruption
happens in cities where the traditional services are very poor or very
expensive. Houston has plenty of cheap hotels and seems like it would be fine
without AirBNB. If I lived in New York City and was used to hailing cabs, I
might never have tried Uber. In Austin with our unforgivably shitty taxi
service, and now our exorbitant hotel prices, AirBNB and ride-sharing services
are fundamentally new, different, and better than the traditional offerings.

------
rdl
I would prefer the perfect hotel experience, but airbnb is a better product
(at any price) than almost all hotels. If the hotel strategy to fight airbnb
rests on pushing regulators to screw consumers, it's unlikely they'll improve
their product.

(Maybe some new entrant can make something better than airbnb or legacy
hotels, though.)

~~~
anindha
Could you expand on why? I normally use Airbnb for areas without many hotels
or for longer stays. I generally find hotels more convenient for short stays
because it's predictable.

~~~
rdl
I want a hotel with 100/100+ symmetric high-quality Internet, and ideally, set
up with a desk, good chair, large monitor on the desk, and keyboard/mouse.

24h checkin, and ideally essentially automated checkin -- if I'm a frequent
guest, I should be able to have a key sent to my phone (or have an NFC token I
carry added to the door's ACL) for the duration of my stay, ideally without
dealing with humans. SPG usually takes me about 2 minutes to check in within
the US, or 3-5 internationally; I'd like that to be 0.

I'd like convenient-to-transport, including both transit and parking, and
carts/flat floors/etc. so I can move stuff in/out of my room easily.

Some specific amenities would be really nice -- a standard coffee machine (I'd
prefer nespresso, but really anything), fridge, microwave, etc. I'd also love
it if all outlets are wonpro universal sockets, and if the layout of sockets
in the room is standardized (at the very least, always one or two on each side
of the bed, and 2-4 at a desk).

What I'd love, but which many people may hate, is an absurd level of
standardization of the room itself -- the same mattress, layout, furnishings,
etc. available at every property, and actual floorplans shown so I'm booking a
_specific room_ and not run of house.

(I'd be fine with this just being a subset, like the club floor, of a legacy
hotel. Or, it handled as a standalone new build, conversion of legacy hotel,
subset of a floor ("Towers" or club floor concept), or potentially, a
decentralized hotel with a bunch of apartments in an area, centrally managed
and serviced.

~~~
ceejayoz
Wait, you want all that... but claim to prefer AirBnB over hotels?

~~~
rdl
I've been in an airbnb for a few weeks. Monthly rental.

Host is a software engineer, even less social than me, and specifically
advertised 100/100 Internet. Less convenient check-in than a hotel, yes, but
for a 30 day stay, knowing "great Internet" and decent workspace (there's an
LCD monitor, etc.) more than made up for it.

I want something which has the tech benefits of airbnb and the institutional
backing of something like a starwood hotel. My least favorite thing is a
shitty unaffiliated hotel; no idea what I'll be getting. The ideal would be
this hypothetical corp-managed property. Right now I split between specific
airbnbs and SPG hotels.

------
losteverything
So marriott finds many guests order pizza delivery. They create new uniforms,
new name, hats and a separate number for pizza delivery. (Could not find
article but ~15-20,it's old ) It goes directly into their kitchen where they
make the pizza.

Why can't hotels do the same. Make it look like an ABB. ???

------
malthaus
I'd be pretty surprised if Airbnb won't be looked at as a fad in a few years
time, independent of the hotel's action plan.

Hotels deliver a consistent experience up to certain standards, Airbnb doesnt.
The price difference is marginal at best and staying in someones spare bedroom
doesn't magically make your trip 'authentic'.

There are use cases where it makes sense (e.g. cheap shared accommodation,
large flats with kitchens for families) but for most use cases covered by
hotels it just doesnt.

What will happen is that more bad experiences happen and travel through social
media, regulation will increase and it will go back to its niche life where it
will do a great job.

------
robbiemitchell
Aside from compliance costs, hotels are sitting on tons of real estate they
must fill with sleepers every night. It's expensive.

I still think hotels could someday co-opt airbnb's success by franchising "at-
home" versions that provide rental properties with branded products and
regular inspections. Take a cut of the proceeds. List the properties on the
website.

\- Hilton at Home

\- Marriott Anywhere

~~~
monkmartinez
This is not a terrible idea, but the overhead of running an actual hotel
business and the associated costs would likely make it less attractive than
the current wild west approach.

I assume, naively, that a lot of ABB'ers skirt taxes and short-term rental
codes/taxes. The advantage comes from not recognizing the state/city/town bed
codes/taxes.

------
yalogin
I am probably in the minority here but Airbnb is a non starter for me. The
fact that they rate and review the guests and that it stays online for ever is
something I cannot accept. I know there are a bunch of things like living with
locals and mingling with them and all of that but I would rather keep that
little bit of privacy.

------
ar15saveslives
Do they really need to combat airbnb? I travel a lot (relatively), but I can't
get the idea of this service. It's a bit cheaper, but a) I can't cancel it b)
I can't book it without interaction with a host c) I can't move in without
interaction with a host d) it ends up even more expensive after
cleaning/service/whatever fees.

I've just checked [1]: NYC, a shitty "private" room with shared bathroom for a
weekday is $150, with crazy "strict" cancelation policy, that literally says
"Cancel up to 7 days before your trip and get a 50% refund plus service fees
back."

What's the point and why is airbnb still alive?

[1]
[https://www.airbnb.ca/rooms/14165373?checkin=2017-05-18&chec...](https://www.airbnb.ca/rooms/14165373?checkin=2017-05-18&checkout=2017-05-19)

~~~
ctdonath
A subset of a set isn't necessarily representative of the set.

I just AirBnB-rented a house for a week, $75/night plus $150 cleaning, 2
bedrooms + living room + kitchen + private screened-in outdoor pool. Loved it.
Will seriously consider _not_ doing hotels any more.

A friend likewise did a week-long vacation via ABB, different house each
night. Stayed in a yurt, farmhouse, log cabin, etc - nifty places, interesting
or isolated locations, which hotels absolutely cannot replicate without
unattainable pricing.

AirBnB exists to connect you to people renting what you want. That's it.
Hotels exist to provide a dense collection of cozy rooms with rapid
comprehensive service. That's it. They exist for different purposes. Like many
industries, the rise of a non-sequitur competitor pushes the longstanding
players to revisit their core purpose - and fighting to destroy that
competition often serves only to undercut their own real talents.

The options are there. Choose what fits you. Don't try to close down options
for others just because those options don't fit your needs. ABB doesn't work
for you in NYC? then just get a hotel. Don't deal with it by slashing _my_
options to get unique/exotic housing which can't be replicated by hotel
chains.

~~~
metaphorm
you're ignoring the situations where ABB is problematic and discussing only
the situations where it is working well. nobody has a problem with ABB working
well. the problem is the impact it has on residential areas in already
housing-crunched cities. a secondary problem is health and safety regulation
disparities.

if we're going to be discussing ABB let's actually discuss the reasons why it
is controversial. there are very good reasons why ABB ought to be more
strictly regulated in certain areas. The yurt, farmhouse, and log cabin
rentals that your friend enjoyed aren't really the issue here and I haven't
seen any significant effort to shut down those types of ABB rentals.

So please, focus on what matters here. There is a narrow but important subset
of ABB rentals that is problematic and that is what the regulatory debate is
focused on.

~~~
ctdonath
Zoning laws and renting contracts apply. Prosecute accordingly.

Parent post was complaining about customer-hostile rental agreements, and high
prices. I focused on that.

My read on the OP is that hotels are just trying to crush the competition
period, using/abusing whatever laws to squeeze ABB out of the area, if not ban
'em entirely, solely for monopolistic intentions.

I have little sympathy for housing-crunched cities. Supply of square footage
is limited, demand becomes extremely high, and the only "friction" available
to limit occupancy is price. Let the price drive creation of new [sub]urban
areas, relieving pressure on prior areas and attracting new viable
productivity.

Most areas have suitable health & safety regulations; adjust accordingly to
enhance health & safety, not as an excuse to drive out competition.

------
xapata
Note that the hotel industry lobbied _against_ collecting business taxes from
AirBnB hosts, afraid that paying taxes indicates legitimacy.

~~~
rwc
Which is why airbnb is all too happy to help states fill revenue shortfalls
with taxes that come out of their pockets:

[https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2017/04/17/...](https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2017/04/17/196451/airbnb-
agreement-with-texas-means-hosts-wont-get-around-paying-tax/)

"By next month, Airbnb will have similar agreements with 250 jurisdictions in
the United States, including 20 states."

------
bookbinder
I feel pretty naive. When I read the headline, I assumed the hotel industry
was going to adapt and innovate as opposed to using legal maneuvers and
regulations.

------
louithethrid
This whole economic setup becomes more fascinating by the minute.. a shared,
near socialistic economy on personal goods- and a buy/sell full capitalistic
economy on virtual goods. Finally some mass producion, where the tailoring of
the product is left to private sub-contractors.

------
flour_power
this isn't a plan, this is just rent-seeking.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=rent+seeking&oq=rent+seeking...](https://www.google.com/search?q=rent+seeking&oq=rent+seeking&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1577j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

------
mrfusion
Is airbnb the best place to find somewhere to stay for 2-3 months?

------
Grue3
I tried to use AirBnb once, but apparently you can't book a reservation unless
you upload your photo. The fuck? And then they wonder why their hosts
discriminate by race! I sure don't need to show my photo to a hotel to book a
room.

~~~
pc86
Do you have a source on racial discrimination by ABB hosts?

~~~
amyjess
[http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/airbnb-bans-
host-f...](http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/04/10/airbnb-bans-host-for-
alleged-discrimination-against-asian-guest/)

~~~
pc86
Thank you I had never heard this before (granted I don't follow AirBnB very
closely at all). Seems like an appropriate response from AirBnB at least.

------
user5994461
Airbnb.com : Are we talking about that microscopic company that's barely a
percent of hotels.com and booking.com ?

P.S. That's just to give a perspective on the industry ;)

------
filereaper
First they ignore you,

Then they laugh at you,

Then they fight you,

Then you win.

------
cuckcuckspruce
Awesome. Move to Somalia where there's no state to prevent you from doing
whatever the fuck you want.

Break the monopoly on the use of force by needing to supply your own to get
anything done!

~~~
dang
Your comments have been breaking the HN guidelines. Please post civilly and
substantively, or not at all.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html)

We detached this subthread from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14130829](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14130829)
and marked it off-topic.

------
unixhero
Topic aside. Pretty crappy article, it's just a wall of text.

------
clamprecht
I wonder how many people participating in this thread are being paid to post
by (1) The hotel industry, or (2) AirBnb

~~~
pitaj
Yes everyone is a shill /s

------
mgleason_3
Just an observation...

These comments seem to be taken over by a pro-Hotel Lobby.

Does the average developer really care that much?

So many comments? 318 comments and climbing?

Why are there so-many down-voted comments?

Why are the ones down-voted almost entirely the ones saying they like AirBnB
or questioning the Hotel industry?

------
iplaw
Because lobbying is almost always 1) more effective and 2) less expensive than
developing and implementing business processes which result in actual change.

It is easier to pay off a handful of politicians to legislate maintenance of
status quo, for the next several decades, than it is to reengineer an entire
industry in response to market forces and Capitalism. We are pseudo-
Capitalists. We let market forces decide until those market forces decide that
status quo isn't working. Then, rather than allowing the market to self-
correct and increase efficiency and value, we artificially prop up and,
further, mandate, the status quo via legislation.

Transportation, Internet Service Providers, Cable Providers, Automotive
Dealers, ..., and now Accomodations.

This list of industries is growing at an alarming rate.

~~~
CPLX
But some of us like the status quo where drunken vacationing Europeans aren't
allowed to rent out units in our residential apartment buildings.

Trying to just "disrupt" business without actually addressing and solving the
complex issues that define the market is just lazy, and often illegal.

I'm pretty glad we have regulated capitalism. If you like the unregulated kind
perhaps you should visit unregulated hotspots like northern Iraq or Somalia
and see what Capitalism looks like in all its raw glory.

~~~
NeonVice
Capitalism != Anarchy. Free markets still require laws addressing theft,
property ownership, contract law, etc. Protectionism, however, simply rewards
first comers. Disruption is the crux of a free market and should be embraced
not lobbied against. Services that people dislike the most due to cost or
service rendered (airlines, health insurance, telecom providers) are often the
most regulated.

~~~
anon1385
>Free markets still require laws addressing theft, property ownership,
contract law, etc

It's funny you say that, because one of the features of AirBnB is that it has
"disrupted" property ownership and contract law. A huge number of AirBnB
properties are being sublet in direct violation of the terms of the tenancy
that the tenant agreed with the landlord.

If you want a state that strictly enforces contracts between parties and
property ownership rights then that's a state where AirBnB wouldn't exist.

~~~
bluGill
To the extent that AirBnB hosts are violating their contract with the
landlord, the state should be involved to enforce that. However if the host
owns the property (or has contract permission to sublet) the state should not
be involved. The state may also get involved is someone (guest or legitimate
owner) is affecting their neighbors (excessive noise for example).

I can recognize that some AirBnB's are not legal even while arguing that as a
whole the idea should be legal.

~~~
WkndTriathlete
I think the legality of operating an AirBNB out of a residence that you own
depends on the zoning ordinances that the property is in. (Renting out your
farmhouse is probably ok; renting out your suburban or urban house or condo as
a business proposition probably violates zoning ordinances and would require
requesting a variance from your local governing council with appropriate
public hearings and notifications to your neighbors.)

~~~
bluGill
You are correct, but I disagree with those zoning rules in general. Specific
zoning rules that prevent behavior that is significantly negative to the
neighbors I'll allow, but most zoning is about keeping some other class
(generally blacks or poor) out.

