
Ask HN: Career Change to something without computers - mattm
I know previously on HN I had read of people who had transitioned out of programming into other work.  I can't find the thread now though.<p>I am considering doing this.  I have some health issues and I think sitting at a computer too much is leading to it.  I've tried taking breaks from programming in the past and I usually end up missing it so I'm sure I still would continue programming as a hobby, however, I want to look into what other jobs a programmer might be good at that doesn't require sitting at a computer for so long.<p>Has anyone else switched from programming to another career?  What other types of jobs would be good for a programmer?
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kunley
I worked at a building site for a year in a remote place. That was non-profit
actually (I also didn't have to spend money for being there) - building a
meditation center with friends, but it was great time of my life. I got
healthy and had a change to just _think_ of some ideas without rush. I
returned to the business with savings somewhat reduced , but with new energy
to do stuff.

I think with some courage any physical job will do (edit: the one actually
curing not worsening your health problems), because as hackers we learn to not
give up and not be distracted by failures. Thus, I'd choose an occupation
usually done in a nice healthy environment - like carpentry.

Of course, you will start from a zero level and will earn funny small amount
of bucks. But I guess it's not the point (and you will probably don't need
much, assuming you don't have a family dependent on you).

I really think physical working is so underrated. It builds your constitution
slowly but in a way that cannot be achieved in a gym, because it happens in a
natural way, not artificially.

~~~
psykotic
> It builds your constitution slowly but in a way that cannot be achieved in a
> gym, because it happens in a natural way, not artificially.

That has an appealing ring to it but could you be more specific? What's a
concrete physical task that could not be accomplished by a well-rounded
exerciser? I'm not talking about Mr Biceps Curl and his good friend Mr Triceps
Kickback but someone who does a mix of pulling sleds, carrying sandbags,
flipping tires, squatting and deadlifting, snatching and clean & jerking
barbells, doing muscle-ups, iron crosses, front and back levers on the bars
and rings, and whatever else you might include in a varied exercise regimen.

~~~
zacharycohn
Crossfit much? :)

I think what he's talking about is the subtle differences between working out
and having a job where you're always physically moving. It's the difference
between "working out" and "having a healthy lifestyle."

~~~
psykotic
A bunch of the people I went to school with as a young kid are now carpenters,
bricklayers, mechanics, etc. A few are quite fit but that's because they're
active outside of work. Most of them have big pot bellies, eat like shit,
drink too much and are overall not what you'd call healthy. The idea that
having a physically-oriented job where you're working outside much of the time
tends to lead to a healthy body and lifestyle is one I'd dispute. If you're
some sort of mythic backwoods ascetic who hunts his own food and builds his
own dwelling then sure, but that's only a viable path for the most extreme and
committed.

~~~
kunley
I'm not telling about mythics, it's a real life. I don't want to make a system
of beliefs here; I responded with an example of experience I lived through.

Of course all depends on the people involved, so carefully choose who you work
with, what they respect, how they talk about different things, how they relate
to the world, do they love what they do or not. This is important in any
activity I guess :)

I was working with German carpenters. They are very disciplined. They were not
extremely committed, they just knew what they like to do and they did it in a
most sane way. I'm sure you have people like that in the US. It's the kind of
mentality which founded US, as far as I can imagine.

------
aaronbrethorst
Do the health issues stem from being in front of a computer, or _sitting_ at
the computer?

Even if you transition over to a career as a bike messenger[1], the odds are
pretty good that an alternative career will require you to spend a significant
amount of time sitting, either in conference rooms or in front of a computer.

Although I have yet to take the plunge, I hear nothing but good things from
people who have transitioned to standing desks (one example:
[http://lifehacker.com/5735528/why-and-how-i-switched-to-a-
st...](http://lifehacker.com/5735528/why-and-how-i-switched-to-a-standing-
desk)).

[1] I'm sure sitting on a bike is better for you than sitting on a chair,
discounting potential concerns like being run over by a car.

~~~
tzs
> I'm sure sitting on a bike is better for you than sitting on a chair

Bike seats are pretty hard on penises, though. Google "penis and bike seats"
for a ton of articles (including some interesting specialty bike seats to
alleviate the problems).

------
mathattack
I will let others give you health advice. Just remember that nobody else will
take care of yourself except for you. That said, here are some areas I have
seen ex-programmers succeed:

\- Finance - May require another degree but it's an easy transition. The math
shouldn't be too hard. It can be in the treasury dept, risk, anything with
modeling.

\- Marketing analysis - you would be surprised how much Math is involved in
getting a tube of Crest to your cabinet.

\- Teaching - most cs folks know enough math to teach it. Many states are so
desperate for math teachers that they don't require an education degree.

In the end, don't worry. Programming is one of the hardest intellectual tasks
out there. Other fields will seem easy in comparison.

~~~
keeptrying
Both Finance and Marketing Analysis will still probably need you to sit at a
desk.

Being a teacher would probably be better from a "not-sitting" point of view.

~~~
mathattack
True. Very few thinking jobs don't require desk time, and based on the little
we've read, thinking is one thing we can infer from the original post.

Some programmers migrate to Sales and other field support jobs, but it's a
bigger stretch on skills. Or more precisely - they require certain skills at a
high level that aren't as required in programming.

Anything other than superficial "Check out this field" will take more than a
couple high level posts. Shoot an email address, and I'm happy to discuss more
in depth.

------
iposbeforehoes
The most obvious advice is to choose from the infinite careers that leverage a
technical background: project manager, business analyst, business development,
sales, and anything else further in the leadership side of a technology
company.

That is actually a natural progression for a lot of people in our field. I,
personally, don't want to be a developer when I am 35, and I am already being
tasked with more and more of the duties of the roles I mentioned above, and I
like it. Have you been tasked with of the duties of other roles that are less
development-oriented? Did you like it?

If your sole reason for wanting to switch really is your health issues, find
out what professions leverage your previous technical knowledge, and further
refine that list depending on which roles will work with your health issues.
On a side note, it seems that most professional careers these days require
that you sit a computer for long periods of times: lawyers, engineers of all
fields, accountants, and finance professionals, etc. So keep that in mind.

Ultimately, you get one body, so make your health your first priority. And you
only get one life so make sure you're doing what you want to do. Good luck.

------
keeptrying
I am adding this because it could be something you havent considered but I
think you should. Do you love the outdoors?

Essentially tours/activites/travel type of jobs.

1\. Hiking tour guide. 2\. Give Kiteboarding lessons. 3\. Scuba instructor.
4\. Travel Writer who goes to different points of the earth and writes about
them. 5\. Gym trainer. 6\. Heli Ski tour operator.

These might seem out there and the pay will be lousy - but I know quite a few
kiteboarding instructors and they are some of the fittest and happiest people
I have ever known. I'm eventually going to end up like this I think - right
after I try founding a few startups. I recently quit my job to start my own
startup. (Still in the cycle of customer development).

They have happiness in their soul except when theres no wind and no waves then
they become painful to hang around :). But with respect to their health - I
dont think I've seen a healthier bunch.

------
wallflower
Re: Health Issues

Assuming they are RSI related:

I highly recommend "Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive
Strain Injuries" by Sharon Butler

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240393>

RSI cannot be cured but it can be managed. For those of you who are fortunate
to be able to take keyboard input for granted, please be wary of any soreness
or minor pain. Over time, pain and soreness can become chronic. The bright
side is dealing with RSI forces you to realize that you cannot take your
career for granted; it gives you perspective.

Good luck! Be wary of magic solutions, something may not work for you.

Changing careers is not as black and white as most careers require significant
computer work. You cannot escape computers in this modern age. Get the best
help that you can, surgery is not a magic cure

~~~
mattm1
OP here - my noprocast settings wouldn't have allowed me to post until
tomorrow.

I have a little RSI but I have taken steps so that it doesn't bother me
anymore (switching to Dvorak layout was probably the best move).

Actually, my health problems are with my skin. When I'm sitting at a computer,
my skin seems to get itchy - maybe there isn't enough blood circulating or my
posture is too stressful.

A couple other people mentioned standing desks. I tried a make-shift one for a
couple days but didn't really like it. I might give it another try though.

~~~
swapsmagic
My assumption is that you haven't consult any doctor yet for your problem. And
if i am right, please go ahead and consult any good skin doctor and identify
the root cause of your skin itching before thinking of switching the career.

~~~
mattm1
I have been to doctors and a lot of them have told me "We don't know the
cause" and "There is no cure for it". It leaves me a little disenfranchised at
the medical system. But the keyword "good" skin doctor may be what I need to
find. Thanks.

------
blackboxxx
It's worrisome you would ask a bunch of strangers what profession you should
take up. We don't know you from Moses. We don't know if you like crossword
puzzles, make your own maple syrup, or have a lisp. You need to write out a
list of what you love to do then explore the possibilities.

For what it's worth, here is what I suggest: switch to a stand up desk for any
computing tasks. I cobbled together an ugly ad hoc one and I could never go
back.

Also, while you deliberate over what your new profession will be, get a job in
retail or sales. The pay will suck but you'll be on your feet and interacting
with human beings.

I wish you success!

~~~
mattm1
OP here.

I don't see why it's worrisome. This is just one place I am asking for advice.
I don't see why people on the Internet assume you will _only_ be asking
strangers. This is more of a way to get ideas. If someone says "taxi driver"
I'm not going to go out and immediately become a taxi driver.

It's tough to think of jobs that don't require being in front of a computer
nowadays. One time we were discussing the olden days of computers and it came
up that I asked "What did people do for work before computers?" Then everyone
went silent - "Yeah, how did people work before computers?" It's amazing how
ubiquitous they have become in such a short time frame.

I've tried the standing desk before for a couple days but didn't really like
it. I may try giving it another shot.

~~~
subsection1h

      I've tried the standing desk before for a couple days but
      didn't really like it. I may try giving it another shot.
    

Remember to alternate between sitting and standing. If you can't get a
motorized standing desk, get a tall task chair to accompany a stationary
standing desk.

Also, get a footrest to use while standing.

------
waterside81
How about personal trainer? Definitely get to stay away from the computer and
it's a highly technical profession (if you choose to be highly informed about
the body and nutrition) so it should still satisfy the engineer/programmer in
you.

~~~
subsection1h
I don't think personal trainers should get into the nutrition business. That's
what registered dieticians and certified nutritionists are for.

------
cjbprime
I've been thinking about whether photography could ever be my day job; it
appeals to the same obsessive/perfectionist traits that coding uses in me. I
think you'd have to be wealthy already to pull it off, though..

~~~
phaker
The problem with any "art-related" work is that it's not something practical /
useful / necessary for anyone. People need programs, but no one _needs_
photos, most often they _want_ one, but could do perfectly without it. (There
are some photos that people will really need done, but that's the worst kind
of work, and not really profitable, so I assume you that's not what you want
to do.)

If you are someone who makes stuff people want, but don't really need you'll
be hit much worse by budget cuts, recessions etc. because your work is one
they can do without easily.

I draw (and do some design stuff). I get _some_ money out of this once in a
while, but it's not much. I know that I could get more out of it if I tried
harder. But that wouldn't mean doing more of what I like doing, I'd have to
take work that I enjoy much less than programming. And I'd probably have
trouble making ends meet, even if I was successful It'd wouldn't be a very
_dependable_ source of income.

~~~
cjbprime
I think international photojournalism is practical/useful, and sometimes even
world-changing if you can get the right shot. Quite the opposite of a computer
day job, and probably not the sort of thing you want to try and juggle with
having a family..

~~~
phaker
> international photojournalism is practical/useful

True, I was looking for a right word, but couldn't find it.

What I meant was that people and businesses need programmers. For most flavors
of 'programmer' the demand is quite stable, and it isn't going away because
"the economy is bad!". If you are e.g. a freelance webdeveloper (at least a
reasonably good one) you can be sure that in the next year demand for your
work will be comparable to this year's.

On the other hand, AFAICT demand for photographs is much more volatile (at
least for most kinds of photographs), and I think it's because people find it
much easier to do without them than without webpages when they need to cut
something. I know it works this way for artwork. I might be wrong, just
sayin'.

------
poissonpie
I retrained to be a Shiatsu therapist (Japanese acupressure massage). It was a
three year part time course (here in the UK) and I had every intention of
quitting the IT world. Once I had finished the course though, my outlook had
changed (partially because of the course - the theory behind Shiatsu is based
on theory behind acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine which is
somewhat different to the more Western concepts I was brought up with).
Anyway, now I do both - I code and I do Shiatsu.

------
dave1619
Might look into real estate and buying trustee sales at the courthouse steps
and reselling for a profit. It usually takes a team of people. You could
probably find some initial investors. It needs some computer work, but you'll
be mostly running around seeing houses and overseeing rehabs. Money is decent.

------
cageface
No idea, but it seems like most jobs these days require sitting in front of a
computer all day. Five years ago I might have suggested going the Office Space
route and taking up construction work but obviously that's not such a hot idea
right now.

~~~
dmoney
There was a reddit AMA a while back from a guy who went from programming to
being a lumberjack.

I guess that might also be affected by real estate prices.

------
dheerosaur
The most common advice you will receive in my place, if this question is
asked, is to become a teacher at a High School. Depending on where you are
from, this may not be a bad choice.

------
forensic
If health is your true concern, then lookinto making yourself a healthier
office. Check out spolsky's offices for instance -- much healthier than
typical

------
georgieporgie
I've been pondering similar ideas, and my sister (Masters in odd textiles-
related field) has been searching for jobs recently, so we discussed this. Our
ideas:

* Electrician and especially low-voltage electrician. Find someone to take you on first, then get into the apprenticeship program. You get paid while you learn. Low-voltage sounds especially interesting, since it's things like wiring up alarm system, _and_ less risk of electrocuting yourself. Wiring up alarm systems sounds more hacker-ish than any paid programming job I've had. Pretty much all electrician work involves a significant amount of problem solving.

* Welding. In particular, deep sea welding, sounds... interesting. It has potential for a very good salary, though it will involve significant risk management and probably a lot of time spent away from home and family.

* Trucking. It sounds less appealing with modern trucking organizations, but if you like driving, it might be doable. Years ago, I recall reading about a British IT guy that switched to trucking who absolutely loved it.

* Physical trainer. This one is probably great if computer-related physical issues have created a passion for fitness in you. I suspect these careers will be even harder going forward, if the economy continues to drag.

* Accounting, lawyering. These exacerbate the same physical issues. Lawyering is pretty dead now, what with way too many graduates.

* Teaching. You can try to teach English overseas to dabble in it and see if you like it.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I've had a few drinks.
;-)

My basic goal with an alternate career is to get exposure to new business
opportunities. For example, something seemingly silly like working at a prison
might allow you insight into a whole new industry, where you could write niche
software and potentially earn a lot of income. Nothing will ever make me stop
thinking, "aha! I could solve that with some code..."

