
Infosys accused of racism - gshakir
https://qz.com/1010965/a-former-executive-is-accusing-infosys-of-racism-that-favours-indians/
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mankash666
I'm unsure if there's racism at play here. The business model of Infosys is
based on outsourcing to India, with the US employees mostly acting as go-
betweens.

Likewise, Huawei's US workforce is overwhelmingly Chinese, but that's probably
not a result of racism. Samsung's US R&D is almost fully Korean at the top -
not because of racism

In India, as a counter example, Philips, the Dutch company, has most of the
upper brass as Dutch. Again, not because of racism, but because of the go-
between nature of the job

~~~
wapz
I really don't like how racism comes up so often in these situations when I
think the closer term is probably familiarity or customs. A lot of bosses like
to work with people that have a similar mindset and work ethic that they do.
It makes sense that if you've been born and raised in country X and worked
there for 15 years and become a boss you will _probably_ prefer people with
work ethics similar to your own. In Japan, as a foreigner working for a
Japanese company, I can see how Japanese would _much_ prefer to hire a
Japanese over me (they don't outwardly complain about long, unpaid overtime,
they do mundane tasks that aren't productive, they don't talk back when
erroneously attacked). And I can see an American boss much preferring an
American who's more likely to bring up points that they think are wrong. I
apologize for the stereotyping but meant it as an example.

~~~
fennecfoxen
> I really don't like how racism comes up so often in these situations when I
> think the closer term is probably familiarity or customs

As a rule, 90% of what people call "racism" in the US today is closer to
xenophobia.

Likewise, 75% of what they call "racist police" is fundamentally a failure of
the justice system as a system to restrain, discipline, or be responsible for
its own career employees (police, prosecutors, and even judges), let alone
properly incentivise them.

~~~
golemotron
Xenophobia is a negative spin on an evolved response that is very basic to
human nature: homophily [1]. You see it in all human societies.

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily)

~~~
BoiledCabbage
> Xenophobia is a negative spin on an evolved response that is very basic to
> human nature: homophily

As is murder.

The fact we may have evolved with something doest justify it.

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nippples
> In 2013, India’s second-largest IT firm took a $34 million hit—the largest
> ever payment in a visa case—after a Texas court found the behemoth guilty of
> “systemic visa fraud and abuse.”

> Green, the former global head of immigration who has previously spoken out
> about the detrimental effect of curbing H-1B visas on the US tech sector, is
> accusing Infosys of using the very same work visas to replace or supplant
> non-south Asians at the company.

This is probably one of the reasons why there's a lot of people in tech
industry (other than CEOs) who want stricter immigration rules in the US.

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dumdumdumNow
As a person of South Asian origin, I am glad this is out. My friends, Indians
and non-Indians applied to these firms after college. Only Indians were called
in for interviews. And only international students took the job offers as they
promised H1B after their work permit expires.

We thought it was raciest that none of non-Indian friends even get a chance to
do interview but they all end up with offers at better companies, so no one
looked deep into this.

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IanDrake
Wow, some of the rationalizing here is priceless. I hope the folks dismissing
this apply their logic evenly.

Here's some of what I've read so far:

Economic - There's no discrimination because they only want the cheapest labor
possible.

Culture - They want a consistent culture so, of course, they mostly hire
Indians "because they work harder"\- paraphrasing from another comment.

Language - It's easier to have everyone speak the predominant language of the
company. Never mind that it's not the same language as the country its
operating in.

Now, if a predominately white company used these same reasons to explain their
lack of minorities there would be an uproar. And rightfully so.

~~~
ksk
>Now, if a predominately white company used these same reasons to explain
their lack of minorities there would be an uproar.

Well, yes, because American minorities are part of the same
culture/language/economy as other Americans.

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ominous
"While roughly 1% of the US population is of the South Asian race and national
origin, roughly 93%-94% of Infosys’s United States workforce is of the South
Asian national origin (primarily Indian). This disproportionately South Asian
and Indian workforce, by race and national origin, is a result of Infosys’s
intentional employment discrimination against individuals who are not South
Asian, including discrimination in the hiring, promotion, compensation, and
termination of individuals."

What kind of argument is this? When the time to elect the 100th president
comes, should all non-South Asian candidates be excluded from the start?
(Assuming no South Asian is elected until then. And by then the 1% might have
changed, of course).

~~~
pvg
It's an argument that's a lot easier to follow than whatever it is you are
trying to say about a hypothetical future presidential candidates and how
might be related to their point.

~~~
ominous
It is an argument in the sense that it is a chain of facts and a conclusion is
implied.

"x% of all A have property X. We have been taking A's for the purpose of Y.
The record shows the y% of our A's have property X".

A = population X = being South Asian x = 1 y = 93-94 Y = working at infosys

And the conclusion seems to be that when making a selection, the selection
should be 'fair' for all properties of A, and not 'fair' for the purpose Y.

And I am not even mentioning the fact that the selection is made by infosys,
whereas if fairness was that important no selection should be made at all.
Maybe we could just ask the government (with their census data) to send the
'fair' distribution of people to work at infosys.

~~~
rayiner
That's how legal complaints work. You set forth a chain of facts that
plausibly imply a conclusion. Proving the conclusion is what you do at trial,
after having the benefit of discovery.

~~~
ominous
Agreed, the legal system is in place to decide who wins, not what makes sense.

~~~
rayiner
At least this part of the system makes sense. There is a two-step process:
pleading and merits. The first stage is a filter for the second. At the
pleading stage, there is a trade-off between getting the right answer and the
expense to businesses of defending litigation. The pleading standard (the
level of facts you have to allege to get to the merits) is a knob you can turn
to trade-off between those two things. If you make the pleading standard
liberal, as it is in the U.S., you'll get the right answer more often because
you'll actually delve into the emails, witnesses interviews, etc. to see if
the defendant actually did do what the plaintiff says he did. If you make the
pleading standard more stringent, you reduce the expense of litigation for
companies, but you also deny more meritorious claims. _E.g._ companies that
discriminate don't exactly advertise that fact. If you require a high standard
of proof to simply bring the claim (as distinguished from proving liability),
then most people who have actually been discriminated against will not be able
to recover.

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throwaway40483
The only people Infosys discriminates against is people who don't like to be
underpaid.

~~~
coolg54321
Yes this is the thing, they just want to pay less and make sure the onsite
guys work overtime for free with the fear of getting offshored/fired. This
wont work well with the Americans. This has nothing to do with racism.

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DarkKomunalec
From the article:

"While roughly 1% of the US population is of the South Asian race and national
origin, roughly 93%-94% of Infosys’s United States workforce is of the South
Asian national origin (primarily Indian)."

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known
Not just Infosys [https://qz.com/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-
indi...](https://qz.com/889524/the-us-says-oracle-is-encouraging-indians-to-
hire-others-indians-and-its-killing-diversity/)

------
known
I'm not surprised [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325502/Map-shows-
wo...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325502/Map-shows-worlds-
racist-countries-answers-surprise-you.html)

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t0mbstone
This is completely off topic, but did anyone else think that the guy in the
headline picture totally looked like an indian version of Mr. Bean?

The facial expression, the eyebrows, the haircut, everything!

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someSven
The term 'racism' should be socially banned, because of it's misuse and
because it can mean so many things. Basicly racism only exists as an combat
term.

~~~
DonHopkins
So you're saying Trump campaigning for years about Obama not being born in the
United States was not racist, and it's just combative to say that? So using
the term 'racism' should be socially banned to protect Trump's feelings, but
him acting that way to increase his power over others shouldn't be?

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apk-d
Why not just let them hire whoever they want? I'm seriously tired of people
sticking their noses into everything.

~~~
drngdds
Because hiring discrimination is bad. No one should be shut out of a job
because of their race.

It's also illegal in the US.

