
Why is it hard to make friends over 30? (2012) - ValentineC
https://nytimes.com/2012/07/15/fashion/the-challenge-of-making-friends-as-an-adult.html
======
kokey
As someone who has been an expat in several locations and also divorced, I
have found that it's not really due to age but down to where the people around
you find themselves in their life and where you find yourself in life. When
young people go to college a significant portion of them are in a situation
where they would need to seek and develop new friendships. The same happens if
you move to a location which has a large expatriate population. It's when you
don't have your old friends around and surrounded by people who are in the
same situation. That means the people you work or take classes with are also
open to making friends with people they work or take classes with. Everyone
also live, work and socialise as close to each other as possible, for this
purpose. This is in contrast to, say, if you move to a new country or a city
where the majority of the people already have established friendships and
families where they live and work. These people don't live close to where they
work, they live close to where it's convenient for their established friends
and family. They don't feel the need to make friends at work. This makes it
hard for you, as an outsider, to make friends where most people you deal with
don't have that need. This changes again if you have children who go to school
and you find yourself with other parents in the same situation. The same when
people move when they retire somewhere.

~~~
julianilson
Fellow expat here. This problem had been on my mind for years. Like you said,
the main challenge is how to spot the most compatible people in a sea of
strangers that are in a similar phase in life. I built We3 to try to make this
easier (and it looks like it's working!). We launched recently and matched
around 30k people already.

It's a mobile app where profiles are private. And it connects people in groups
of 3, but not only based on interests, but personality, lifestyle, values,
etc. It would be awesome if we could connect a bunch of this crowd IRL. What
do you think? [https://we3.app.link/](https://we3.app.link/)

~~~
mcjiggerlog
Looks like a cool tool, but I just wanted to add that I'm a man with at least
50% female friends, so restricting me to only making friends with men is a
shame.

I think we've moved past the whole "not being able to be friends with someone
of the same gender" thing (nevermind the fact that people of the same gender
can date!). There are probably better ways to tackle people using the app for
dating.

~~~
shrimp_emoji
>I think we've moved past the whole "not being able to be friends with someone
of the same gender"

I think you meant to say "of the opposite gender".

I find it difficult to make friends with people of both genders, but my
hobbies and interests seem partitioned strongly to _one_ gender, virtually
making the other gender seem alien and _extra_ hard to make friends with. I
don't know why that's the case, and it seems to be one of the great questions
of our time along with others like what dark matter is. :0 Indeed, some of
them seem to FEIGN interest for the purposes of mate seeking, but questioning
each and every person's motives would devolve us into some kind of McCarthyist
wasteland of jade, toxic cynicism.

One possible solution is to keep gender secret in interaction. Another would
be to segregate interactions by gender. We3 chose the latter. I whine at the
strangeness and unfashionable nature of humanity, but I can't whine at We3's
decision. It seems to keep everything pretty--

>(nevermind the fact that people of the same gender can date!)

We're back to the wasteland.

Albeit a smaller wasteland, statistically.

~~~
Toast_25
> I find it difficult to make friends with people of both genders, but my
> hobbies and interests seem partitioned strongly to one gender, virtually
> making the other gender seem alien and extra hard to make friends with.

I don't think the fact that you find it hard to do so should be a reason to
restrict your user-base. I see a case for single-gender outings and understand
that some people would prefer such outings, but I think co-ed outings could
add to the app.

EDIT: Just saw your link on why tribes are single gendered. I didn't really
take the creep-factor into account. Maybe a 2 on 2 female/male ratio would
help reduce it, best of luck with figuring it out, it's a tough nut to crack!

------
iamleppert
People are a sum of their life experiences. People who are older, have more
that goes into that equation. More often equates to complexity and intricacy,
like a complicated key, that becomes harder and harder to find a lock for.

In my early 20's, I was more open to hanging around people I know I didn't
like, or wasn't compatible with, because I didn't want to be alone or without
friends, craved attention, and saw every social encounter as a stepping stone
and potentially valuable.

Now, I know better. When you get older you realize you don't need to surround
yourself with people whom you don't like, no longer crave as much attention,
and already stepped along many of life's stones. You also put on less of a
pretense to others and care less about being liked. It's more important to be
authentic and true, even if that means having less friends, than a phony with
a lot of fake friends. All this has the result of making it more difficult to
randomly find real friends.

It's common I'll meet many new people but the ones who I stay in contact with
are few and far between, and that's okay. People come into your life and go
out of it, it's just the way things work. I'm thankful for everyone I've had
in my life and know that there are many more great people who I have yet to
meet.

~~~
scardine
At 47 it is a bit of the explore/exploit paradox for me - an optimal stopping
problem.

As an introvert social interaction drains my mental energy so at some point
you start investing more energy into enjoying your best friends than into
making new friends.

~~~
cheschire
As an extrovert, social interaction still drains my mental energy. If anything
I find myself even more obligated than you do to hold up my end of the
conversation because that's the social expectation. This can be horribly
exhausting when I'm simply not in the mood.

~~~
ryeguy_24
The extroverts I’ve known all thrive and get energy in social situations. I
use this now as my deciding factor for introversion and extroversion. Are you
sure you aren’t an introvert with extrovert skills. That’s what I am. I can
talk to anyone easily but it drains me.

~~~
cheschire
Yeah, I had some leadership training last year that involved multiple
personality tests. I'm absolutely an extrovert. It wasn't even an "on the
fence" kind of result.

I'm not an expert on psychological motivations, so I can't speak to the
feelings or motivations of others, just myself.

Most of the time these results are things I find during introspection after
social events are over. I can spend 4 hours in a social situation and be one
of the drivers that keeps things going. It's later, when I'm alone and
meditating, that I discover just how exhausted I was.

------
patorjk
This was something that was discussed recently in one of the Pokemon Go FB
Messenger groups I'm in. The group is mostly people in their 30's and 40's,
and some of the people don't have any friends outside of the group. The game
has basically brought them a network of friends that they didn't have before.
And because "raids" (in-game battles of giant Pokemon) require multiple people
and for you to physically go somewhere, you end up seeing your Pokemon friends
a lot. You may even spend an afternoon driving around town, chasing raid
battles. Sometimes it's just saying hello and battling, but other times you
strike up a convo, laugh, etc. Lots of people feel the game is dead, or think
I'm weird when they find out I still play it, but there's still an active
player base, and it's methods of trying to get people (usually anti-social
people) out and being social, have definitely hit upon something.

~~~
zanny
You forge friendship through common struggle. You need to offer one another
_something_ or you just introduce yourselves and let one another drift off in
opposite directions without any bond forged.

You form your first friendships really early on with an extremely strong
commonality - the hugeness of the world and your lack of information about it.
Literally _everything_ is in common with your peers circa age 2-4 because
nothing is established yet. If it weren't for how our society has a habit of
breaking these kids up constantly throughout their childhoods I would _think_
those relationships would form the most iron clad friendships you can get if
they survive to adulthood. Too bad about 90% of the kids you meet in daycare
you never see again after you start school.

School is the next big one, where for most kids they will struggle alongside
each other for 13 years straight. The mixing up of classes year to year again
hurts the likelihood of strong friendships forming, but you can also just have
kids your age in your neighborhood as a strong peer group. You have massive
amounts of commonality at that point - you are taking the same classes, you
live in the same area, you know the same people, you are subject to the "same"
pop culture of your school.

That is where those high school clicks emerge from. The most bonded peer
groups of before specialize as they age.

The same hold true into college, but I definitely don't see the same
commonality and uniformity there. Going through puberty is really the cutting
off point where divergent personalities specialize your interests enough that
finding commonality becomes _much_ harder, and you start having much less to
offer your peers over their cumulative experiences and engagements.

It only gets worse from there. The more years into life you are, the more
interests and specialties you have as a person that makes finding
compatibility all that harder. People _force_ themselves into relationships
and marriage out of societal pressure. Nobody _forces_ you into friendship
nearly as much, so over that hump the lack of compatible people drops to near
zero. Its why I think most marriages fail - they are trying to force the
highest degree of friendship, when the older you get the harder it is.

Pokemon Go, and video games in general, are _extremely_ effective ways to get
people a commonality to force them together and interacting in ways that can
build meaningful bonds. A common challenge is _essential_ to bonding. The more
passionate you can be about it the more likely it works.

But even then the 30 year old comes with _baggage_. They already have their
favorite movies and musicians. Likes and dislikes. Hobbies and things they
want to avoid. Because they have experienced so much more a fraction than they
would have as children they are that much more set in stone. The adage of how
you can't change a person applies here - even children demonstrate
_dramatically_ declining malleability as they gain experience in life. As you
gain magnitudes more life experience your flexibility personality wise
declines by similar magnitudes. It is trying to fit together puzzle pieces -
if the pieces are made of clay you can mold them to fit. If they are tried out
and set in stone they are rigid and it is much harder to find a match, and
those matches are much easier to fracture and break.

The commonality and struggle are the prongs of a puzzle piece. The more
impactful on your life, the happier it makes you, the more passion you can
have for it the more pronounced those prongs can be. Early on you only need
the simplest commonality as being the same age or living near one another to
forge bonds - as you get old and your piece gets more defined and nuanced, it
takes larger struggles and stronger forces to bind pieces together.

~~~
majos
There's a beautiful passage in _All The King 's Men_ that makes, to me, a
similar point:

"The friend of your youth is the only friend you will ever have, for he does
not really see you...and perhaps he never saw you. What he saw was simply part
of the furniture of the wonderful opening world. Friendship was something he
suddenly discovered and had to give away as a recognition of and payment for
the breathlessly opening world which momently divulged itself like a moon
flower. It didn’t matter a damn to whom he gave it, for the fact of giving was
what mattered, and if you happened to be handy you were automatically endowed
with all the appropriate attributes of a friend and forever after your reality
is irrelevant.”

~~~
soupflavor
>There's a beautiful passage in All The King's Men that makes, to me, a
similar point: "The friend of your youth is the only friend you will ever
have, for he does not really see you...and perhaps he never saw you. What he
saw was simply part of the furniture of the wonderful opening world.
Friendship was something he suddenly discovered and had to give away as a
recognition of and payment for the breathlessly opening world which momently
divulged itself like a moon flower. It didn’t matter a damn to whom he gave
it, for the fact of giving was what mattered, and if you happened to be handy
you were automatically endowed with all the appropriate attributes of a friend
and forever after your reality is irrelevant.”

Wow, this quote is phenomenal

------
hx2a
I'm 42, and I wish someone told me in my 20's it would be harder to make new
friends as I got older. I would have done things differently. I would have put
more effort into making friends then.

I am able to make new friends, but they end up being more like acquaintances
most of the time. Currently I am in grad school, and that's working out well
for me. There's something about the shared camaraderie and shared suffering
from the workload that builds real friendships.

~~~
77pt77
> I'm 42

> Currently I am in grad school

A post about being in grad school at 42 would be something I'd read.

~~~
hx2a
Really? Interesting. I can do that. How would be the best way to go about that
on HN? I'm new here and haven't seen any posts like that. Just start a thread
with some info and answer questions?

~~~
wonderbear
I'd read it.

~~~
hx2a
Very well. I'll do that this weekend when I have more time to read and reply.
Should be an interesting discussion, especially since I left a career in
finance to go to grad school to do something totally different. It is a big
move but I've never been happier.

~~~
77pt77
It's here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16460040](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16460040)

------
warabe
As a gay man who is almost 30, I think making friends is relatively easy for
gay people thanks to dating apps. Perhaps, you cannot same gender friends in
Tinder (if I'm wrong, please correct me), but a lot of gay people are using
dating apps not only to find relationships but also to find friends.

I also think social isolation around gay people makes friendship among gay
people special. I don't know much about Western countries like U.S., but here
in Tokyo, most of the gay are still in the closet. They have to pretend to be
straight outside gay communities. It is really stressful. They cannot talk
much about their lovers or their gay friends. A lot of gay people around me
say drinking with straight people is just boring because of those reasons.
That drives us to make gay friends.

It is quite anecdotal, but I didn't have single friends a year ago, and now
I've got 4, 5 close gay friends since I started using a dating app. I am
actually very satisfied with my current life.

~~~
firstplacelast
Also gay, I think it is much more to do with our "delayed adolescence" and
childless-ness. Or at least in the US that's what I see. The older I get, the
more blessed I feel to be gay. I can move to any medium to large sized city
tomorrow and probably find tons of guys in my age range that are looking for
friends and shared-activity partners.

I have many child-free gay friends in their late 30's-50's and their social
lives are often 5x those of their straight counterparts.

~~~
graphitezepp
Off topic, but I'm freshly out of the closest and terrified of the future of
my social life without the typical social framework I observe in older
couples. Really heartening to know you feel this way.

------
tinyhouse
I think you can make good friends at any age, but you need the right
environment for that. When you're young you spend a lot of time with the same
people, like in school, which is the environment you need to build a close
friendship. When you're older you tend to meet a lot of new people, but you
don't have many opportunities to spend a lot of time together. Except at work,
which is why many people make close friends at work, but it's not the best
environment since people don't like to mix their private and professional life
together.

~~~
randomdata
I agree entirely. Friendship requires repetition. When you are older, your
time gets spread across more activities, leaving less opportunity for
repetitive time spent together.

I'll add that the workplace can be problematic for friendship as there is
extra room for undue hostility. If someone makes a mistake, for instance, that
mistake may fall directly on your shoulders and friendships predicated on that
type of situation usually do not end well. People do not want to feel like
they are being taken advantage of in friendship.

Compare that with a scholastic environment and mistakes generally only affect
the one who made it (or perhaps faculty, who students usually do not
befriend), thereby not affecting friendships. If your own grades were
dependent entirely on your friends' performance in school, you just might not
be able to maintain those friendships quite so well.

~~~
galfarragem
I know that most people agree with you but strangely I consider the workplace
a good place to make friends and get to know people. You are testing them all
the time and you are able to see how they react in stressful situations. If
someone is not compatible you'll know it within a short time.

------
narrator
I have tried to make guy friends and the main problem seems to be that they're
boring. We just run out of stuff to talk about unless we have some business
related stuff to talk about. I prefer lady friends ( __AS IN FRIENDS WHO ARE
FEMALE WHO I DO NOT HAVE A SEXUAL OR WORK RELATION WITH AND WHO I AM NOT
TRYING TO DATE __) as there 's always the flirty subtext to play around with
and they are just pleasant to be around and they probably think I'm trying to
date them, even though I'm not. I just find them pleasant to be around and to
talk about trivial day to day stuff with.

Maybe I'm really strange here, but do guys even have lady friends who are not
their relatives, who are not their co-workers, and who they are not trying to
date?

Edit: Downvotes? Is there something controversial about being friends with
women to just have enjoyable conversation and platonic interaction without
some sort of ulterior motive?

~~~
theli0nheart
Not strange at all. I’d really like to have more friends who are women, but
social norms make that hard to do. Most women I hang out with are my wife’s
friends or friends’ wives/girlfriends, but I feel like getting any closer than
an acquaintance is culturally taboo.

~~~
jacob019
Not to mention that the wife might have concerns.

------
poulsbohemian
In the past month three men, (one 45ish, another 55ish, another 74) two of
whom I was barely acquainted with, have poured their souls out to me over
their relationship and business troubles. I'd argue that it isn't hard to
_make_ friends, it's just hard to _meet_ people in the first place. Men in
particular get into a habit of focusing on business and family. More than once
I've heard older men voice a complaint if their wives weren't the ones to
build social relationships, as they expected them to fulfill that role. Below
30, people have more opportunities -- school, sports, activities -- through
which they simple meet more people. Above 30, the number of opportunities to
meet other people declines unless one makes a concerted effort to seek out
their tribe.

~~~
pmoriarty
_" it's just hard to meet people in the first place"_

If it's hard, it's usually a psychological difficulty rather than a lack of
opportunity.

Unless you live somewhere exceptionally remote, you're usually surrounded by
people and opportunities for meeting them are quite frequent. You could strike
up conversations most anywhere: from streets to bus stops to parks to bars to
dance and social clubs to special interest groups, work, cafes, parties,
conferences, and so on.

Usually, though, most people don't make the effort, for a variety of reasons
ranging from fear to awkwardness and lack of social skills.

Once you meet people, though, you have to go further and cultivate
acquaintances in to friends, and lots of people fail to do that as well. Even
after a friend is made, however, it's still a challenge to get closer and then
to maintain the friendship, which again people often fail to do.

~~~
sillysaurus3
So I go up to the pharmacist. He's an older gent about my dad's age. We know
each other since I pick up my script for sleep issues every month.

"How you doing today?"

"Oh, you know how it is." He gives me a weak smile. I can tell he feels worn
down from the daily grind.

I pick up my script, then think of a way to keep chatting.

"Hey, this is going to sound weird, but I also have <foo> medical condition.
Do you have any advice on getting that treated?"

I have no idea why this made sense to me, but it was something like
"Pharmacists fill scripts, and they also see prescriptions daily, so they know
which illnesses are treated by which medicines, so therefore this is totally
not a weird thing to do."

He gives me this super surprised look and stays mostly quiet. I say "I should
see a doctor huh?" and he says yeah. I walk away feeling like a dummy.

I didn't mind at all, and I'm not afraid to try to make new friends. But now
instead of this random person thinking of me as a neighbor (he always called
me by name) I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm weird. And I am.

The point is, I don't really care about being weird. I don't think I'm alone
in this. But I stay quiet because it damages social relationships to express
myself in odd ways. It's better to be on a cordial first-name basis than have
an arms-length-but-personal experience with them.

The opportunities you mention for meeting people are really not as frequent as
you make it seem. And it's unclear what to say to force a conversation. Yes,
some people have this skill. Some are also naturally good looking. But seeing
as this is Hacker News, I think the audience might be closer to my side of
things.

The reason I wrote this was that you mention there are all these
opportunities. But going over in my mind, I can't see a single way to talk to
that guy that isn't socially weird. He's at work. He just wants to get his job
done and move on to the next customer. I don't know anything that could make
him laugh. Asking about his day or asking him to tell me what it's like to be
a pharmacist would be seen as yet another frustrating thing to deal with at
work. And there are other people in line behind me, so this is an imposition
on everyone else.

But those people are opportunities too, right? I could just turn around and
start chatting them up. Except not really. It's the same for everyone else in
life: We're all busy, all dealing with our own things. And the older you are
the busier you get.

All of this is to say, you can live in one of the biggest cities in the
country and still feel completely isolated and alone. I know. And maybe this
comment will put it into context that it's not really their fault. It's just
the shape of the situation.

I usually hack on my projects at the mall on a couch, and end up meeting quite
a lot of people. But only if they happen to be hacking away on something too,
and eventually I ask them about it. But that seems rather an uncommon
situation. So I'm wondering "Outside of work and family, where _would_ other
hackers have excuses to meet people in daily life?"

Even now, the smart thing is to stay quiet and not post this. You're told to
stay quiet in a thousand ways by the society around you.

~~~
Meekro
I'm self-employed and I have a rented desk at the local WeWork coworking
space. I go there when I feel like getting out of the house to get some work
done.

Using the coworking space is a surprisingly good way to meet people. Obviously
the guy locked in an office, headphones on, hammering out code should be left
alone -- but there will be many people sitting in the common areas, chatting
with their buddies. They might be drinking the free beer on tap. They probably
have a startup, open source project, etc. that they're passionate about and
would be happy to tell you about.

~~~
prawn
I co-own/run a co-working space and always enjoy opportunities to talk with
the others here about our work and life outside of work. I've been in a
shared/open office my entire working life and many of my friends have come
through these environments.

I think consistently seeing each other daily for whatever period gives you a
good chance to find common interests, incorporate social outings, etc.

------
VLM
If everyone started out identical, however unlikely that is, and hobby
interests compounded like interest, increasing the balance of ... warhammer
40K, for the sake of example, by 1% every year, then at age 18 you'd have
identical interests and experiences and therefore make shallow friends with
all kinds of randos who will diverge dramatically in the future, and by age
50, 1% compound hobby interest per year means you'll all be very diverse and
therefore unlike to friend up except with people like you.

There's actually a pretty good financial analogy with... finances. At uni "all
of us" lived the same lives in the dorms. We had all the same financial life,
which was "student poor". Rapidly the ultra rich kids moved to the ultra high
rent apartments, we had lives that diverged, etc. Decades later rather than
all of us having the same financial condition and experiences, there are
likely very few people exactly like me financially.

Finally there's a lot of hand wringing that I'm not hanging out with people
who have nothing in common with me other than drinking the same beer or
cheering for the same sportsball team. A lot of people grow up and see that as
the waste of time that it is. At 18 you can be fooled into thinking a shared
enjoyment of "Miller Lite Ice" is a deep personal connection, but many people
can't be fooled that way at age 50. Not really a problem.

~~~
emodendroket
When I was younger I thought sports were stupid, but as I've grown older I've
come to enjoy watching football a lot and to especially enjoy watching it with
other people. Yeah, it's not going to go on my tombstone when I die, but how
many things are? It's a common thing to watch, speculate about, emote over,
etc., and the game itself has grown more interesting to me as I've come to
understand it more.

I also think the importance of having a common lifestyle or a lot of shared
interests can be overstated. I don't share that many hobbies with my wife but
I enjoy talking to her and spending time with her regardless. I enjoy meeting
up with old friends from school even when they're at totally different career
stages than I am. You don't _have_ to do the most expensive thing you can
afford every night.

~~~
incompatible
Sports are so boring and repetitive though. Especially when you don't care who
wins, and I can't imagine why I'd care.

~~~
ZenoArrow
I think it helps to have played a sport before to appreciate watching it.

For example, when I was younger I used to play some football (soccer). I don't
play at the moment, but when I watch a game there's a lot more for me to pick
up on because of that past experience. I get that to someone who's never
played before the game might look uninteresting as it's a relatively low point
scoring game (compared to something like basketball or tennis), but to people
who are into it there's much more going on than just the goals, it's the
dynamics of the game as a whole that captures their attention. Having past
experience playing makes it easier to see when a team is attacking well and
defending well, easier to pick up on individual displays of skill, easier to
pick up on new opportunities and how these could change the game, easier to
pick up on the state of the game (chances of a win, loss or draw) and the ways
the players respond to this.

If the only part of the game that mattered was when the ball was kicked in the
net then it would be a boring game as it doesn't happen very often, but
there's a whole lot more going on if you know where to look. You might still
find the game boring, but hopefully this helps to explain how people get into
it.

~~~
emodendroket
I don't doubt that that really deepens your appreciation, but I think even
through repeated watching you can come to appreciate the game more. To give
the most obvious example, someone without a lot of familiarity with football
would probably be confused about why they were go back five yards behind where
they were after the last play instead of the last place they got to because
the penalty system isn't obvious to a neophyte (in soccer terms, consider how
many people are baffled by off-side calls if they only ever watch a few games
during the World Cup every four years).

~~~
incompatible
I'm not even sure if your references to football and soccer are the same
sport, or two different sports. I think they usually mean the same thing,
except in certain countries where other sports (such as rugby) are called
football instead.

~~~
ZenoArrow
I'm from the UK, we call soccer "football" here. The sport that people in the
US call "football" we call "American Football". Many countries call soccer
"football" (or variations thereof, depending on their native language). I've
never heard anyone use the term "football" to describe rugby, though rugby
(union) was supposedly a spinoff from football (rugby league came later). To
add to the confusion, there are two other sports that have the name football,
namely Gaelic Football and Aussie Rules Football, both of which are popular in
their home countries.

~~~
incompatible
I originated in New Zealand, and football generally meant rugby. Maybe things
have changed since then or maybe I don't remember correctly.

I didn't realise American football could be abbreviated to football. We also
knew it as gridiron, and it always seemed like the very definition of boring,
repetitive sport. Guy takes the ball, runs at the opposition, is taken down,
everybody stands around chatting for ~10 minutes, repeat :)

------
colmvp
I can’t seem to read this right now since I’m over my limit of free articles
but I’ll say that Meetup.com has been really helpful to find interesting
people in the same boat.

My recommendation to people is to find a meetup (doesn’t have to be from
Meetup, could be a sports league, religious group, volunteering...) that meets
frequently so that you have a chance to slowly get to know the same group of
people over a course of time. I find meeting up once per month is a little too
infrequent for growing bonds and prefer weekly/biweekly meetups but sometimes
you end up meeting someone who you gel with and it’s easy to meetup many times
over beyond the meetup interval.

~~~
nightski
Open in incognito. Read as many articles as you'd like.

~~~
lr4444lr
Incognito holds onto cookies too (in a separate instance of course). Did you
find a way to conveniently overcome that without causing the NYTimes not to
work?

~~~
JimmyAustin
Incognito clears the cookies once all incognito windows are closed.

------
yters
We've lost the families and social institutions that once developed those
relationships, and in general the ability to put up with people outside our
comfort zone. If you've read CS Lewis' Great Divorce, it is his vision of
hell, everyone living in their own isolated, make believe houses, ever moving
farther away from each other because they cannot stand anyone else.

~~~
branchless
Which is caused by high land costs. Now we must maximize our employability,
and to hell with friends, family and community. The land costs, set by loose
credit from banks, must be met.

------
ggg9990
One anecdatum: I simply lost most interest in having friends by 25. I lost the
rest when I had a kid. Now my friends are my daughter’s friends parents. I
don’t really like them, I just end up chit chatting with them while our
daughters play.

~~~
Kluny
Are you male? I don't want to assume. But as a woman this is something that
really concerns me about the guys I and my friends date. I see my father doing
the same thing. Once they get into a stable relationship they seem to think
that there's no need for a social life beyond their girlfriend, coworkers, and
maybe one or two very close old friends... but those old friends tend to drift
away.

The reason it bothers me is because these men end up overrelying on their
girlfriend or wife for both emotional support and to manage their social life.
Without the woman doing it for them, they get angry, misanthropic, and
antisocial due to not having an outlet - and they don't see it as a problem at
all. But their families get to watch them become more unpleasant and withdrawn
as time goes by.

This is something I find really hard to talk about with the men I see doing
it, especially when it's my own partner. Obviously it's not all men. But my
dad DEFINITELY does it, and the result is that he's gone from being a fairly
open-minded, liberal, and environmental kind of person to someone who can't
seem to talk about anything other than guns, American politics (we're not even
American), and the "idiotic" policies of our local politicians. He recites
stuff he's heard on TV as if it's gospel truth. It seems impossible to have
normal, non-political conversations with him anymore, he just doesn't have any
knowledge or interest that doesn't come from TV.

He's my dad and I love him, but needless to say, when I see my partners going
down the same path, it freaks me out. Sorry, I know that's a lot to
extrapolate from your very short comment, but maybe it's just something to
think about.

~~~
jamiek88
Wow, you know that certainly made ME think and also made me flash back to the
face my wife pulled when I remarked how my lack of friends doesn't bother me.

Perhaps it _should_.

I'm an immigrant too, although no language issues, so I have lots of friends
in my home country and not many here, a lot of those were expats or work
connected and the rest are via my wife and her work - she didn't grow up
around here either but is American.

I'd hate to go down that road you talked about and I've seen people do so.
We've not been able to have kids either so don't have that path of getting out
of our bubble.

Food for thought indeed.

~~~
Kluny
I'm glad it made someone think :)

This is one of my fastest upvoted comments ever. I think it struck a chord.
There's no way of knowing whether it was men or women upvoting, but I have a
feeling I'm not the only who has had these thoughts.

~~~
leetcrew
my guess is a fair amount of the upvotes were from men. deep down i think men
do realize that we have gaps in our coping skills, but don't fully understand
the cause.

~~~
gaius
_fully understand the cause._

The cause is that “society” expects that to “grow up” a man must give up his
hobbies and his friends and “settle down” (provide for a family as sole
purpose in life).

Someone will say “that’s how the patriarchy harms men too!” But I don’t think
I believe that; I don’t think men say “hey bro, we should totally just give up
all that cool stuff we do, for no reason”.

------
usful
Anecdotal but, I'm 36 and I made the most friends I have ever made in my life
in the last two years. From doing the conference/retreat circuit to,
surprisingly, the festival circuit (Burning Man, Gratitude Migration, etc.)
I've made a lot of close, real, amazing friends

~~~
JimboOmega
Similar reality (most of my friends since 30, I'm 35 now), very different
origins.

I changed a lot as a person after 30 - I moved to the bay area for one thing.
I also transitioned... which let me meet other women in more feminine contexts
(IE, fans of a clothing brand).

I also met a lot of people who became friends through dating.

Almost all of my friends that I see regularly I met in the last 5 years or so.

~~~
usful
Wow thats amazing! Congrats on being more of your self.

------
k__
I know a bunch of people who don't make many new friends and this has many
reasons.

People get families. They have time for other people after the kids are done.
Depending on the time they got the kids this can take till they are mid 40.

People met a whole bunch of people till they got 30 and decided that they only
need the 2-5 best who are left in the end.

People have a career that eats most of their time and they want to invest the
rest of this time into their relationship and not general friendships.

In general I have the feeling many people are more focused after 30. Mostly on
romantic relationships.

Most new people I added to my "friends" in the last 3 years were love
interests. Since I'm polyamorous, this isn't much of an issue for me, but I
can imagine this to be an issue for monogamous people. They get a partner and
that's it. The people they meet after 30 who are willing to share much of
their time are singles searching for a partner, so if you already got one,
you're not of interest.

------
b0rsuk
Get a hobby. Start going to a place where people practice it. I'm over 30 and
board games work well for me. Most people I play with are younger. The oldest
of us, resembling the one from French Connection, is a former programmer(?)
and regularly mops the floor with other players, often at games he's playing
for the first time. I heard he attends dancing lessons too.

I think it's a matter of getting your priorities right and not neglecting
work/life balance. My brother is a devops rather obsessed with career,
progress, income, has wife and kids. If he sends you a message it's usually
because he's about to follow up with something he needs of you. If he calls
it's usually past 20:00 and he's not interesting in listening to you... then
when he finishes talking he says he no longer has time. He regularly takes his
work home. If he has a single friend, I'm not aware of that. He doesn't read,
doesn't watch movies, no longer plays games. Doesn't appear to be interested
in anything but work.

My simple principle is work to live, not live to work. Work should enable
decent living and a lifestyle where I can occasionally travel at my own will,
buy some fancy items and eat well. If the workplace regularly organizes
parties or sends people on delegations, I'll look for another one. My brother
says I could stockpile money much faster abroad. Stockpile... for what? Time
is the resource you can't replace.

~~~
el_cid
It seems you might be rationalizing your lower-income a bit. Let me try to
explain why. I agree about the work-life balance, but at 30 you're in the best
shape you'll ever be: physically & mentally. In my opinion there is some sense
in sacrificing a bit of the present in order to make the future more
palatable. Especially at the age of 30. A bit of extra effort at this age can
save a lot of trouble down the road. Granted you can take this to the extreme
and be like your brother. But I've seen so many miserable people in their 50s
at my workplace, living paycheck to paycheck, buy all kinds of useless
trinkets and always talking about their next 'adventure' \- a holiday to some
expensive resort on the other side of the globe or something. I don't want to
live like that at 50. I am willing to sacrifice some of my present time &
enjoyment to avoid that.

~~~
kbart
Not everyone measures their happiness by the balance in their bank account.
These "miserable people" might be genuinely enjoying their "useless" trinkets
and adventures. If it's not for you - OK, but don't judge other people like
that. Contrary, I know plenty of older, rich people that worked hard their
whole life and are still miserable, because they are missing the time they
could have spent with the loved ones (especially when they pass away) or
didn't do things they enjoy.

~~~
k__
What they're trying to say is, if you work in a job you don't like and pace
through work from one holiday to the next, you're basically missing out on
life.

I mean, how much holidays do you have? In Germany for every holiday week you
work five weeks.

~~~
kbart
What makes you think that they are missing life? They might as well work in a
position they are not overly enthusiastic about, but earn enough to meet their
lifestyle and enjoy their life after 5pm back at home with loving family or
working in a garden. How that's worse than working your ass off 80h per week,
earn a lot of money, but then be a rich 50 year old with no family and no
friends? I mean, how can you even objectively compare such things? Choose
whichever way and lifestyle works for you and brings most happiness, but don't
judge people that choice other ways.

------
southphillyman
I've "lost" double digit friends in the last 5 years alone (they are still my
friends technically, just don't talk or hang out nearly as often anymore).
Looking back I notice that my parents also had a dramatic decline in friends
after a certain age so it may be a common thing.

A theory of mine is that big families were once a thing because it was a way
to have built in friends well after 30. When you have 5 adult kids and many
grand kids I imagine you never feel like you don't have a lot of friends as
the large family serves as a proxy for that kind of companionship.

That being said I wonder how social media will impact this. The majority of my
ex friends still follow me, and I talk to many of them multiple times a week
via group text.

------
davesque
American here:

I've had the problem at a few different times in my life that, whenever I
actually suggested to guy friends that we hang out, they interpreted it as a
pass and thought I was gay. I'm not making this up at all. I think part of the
problem is not just the way that priorities change as we get older but the
fact that the US seems to have an extremely closed-off and anxiety-ridden
culture to begin with. Maybe, in a sense, people here have too much personal
space and just aren't good at being around each other?

~~~
pwaai
I think this is a uniquely Anglo cultural thing, in the backdrop of a stricter
gender norms formed out of industrialization. Everybody is so afraid of being
seen as gay while maintaining a front of being politically correct about it (I
suppose there is genuine fear of being publicly labelled a homophobe or a
racist).

In almost all parts of the world, there's nothing wrong with grown men hanging
out or grabbing drinks to share trial and tribulations of life.

~~~
gowld
Perversely, in some very homophobic cultures, men hold hands with men because
they are so homophobic that there is not even an insinuation that they might
be willing to publicly show homosexual inclinations, so handholding is assumed
platonic.

~~~
benhoyt
Yes, this is common for Arab men -- when I was in Sudan men (even middle aged
and older men) held hands walking down the street. To a westerner it just
looks very odd, but it's normal for them.

However, I think your (gowld's) comment transfers a lot of cultural baggage
and sexual-orientation lingo from western culture in a way that I think is
quite rude. Those Sudanese guys weren't holding hands "peversely, because
they're so homophobic", they're doing that because that's how they've grown up
and it's a totally normal thing for male friends to do over there.

~~~
davesque
That's my understanding. It's not an expression of homophobia but just simply
one of friendship.

------
Yaggo
I have never be able to make [close] friends, especially same-sex friends. It
bothered me when I was younger, but not much anymore (I'm 35 now). I get
enough social interaction at work, my spouse is very close friend of mine, and
kids and hobbies keep me busy.

Only on occasions like wedding, name giving parties etc. having no friends
bothers me little but I've three siblings.

It's interesting that the recommendation to make friends in hobbies haven't
worked for me neither. I guess there's something in my personality which makes
it hard, regardless of the situation. It's relatively easy for me to get along
with people, but really difficult to convert the relationship from
acquaintance to true friendship.

~~~
KozmoNau7
It took a long time for me as well. Kickboxing/crossfit didn't work.
Volunteering at a local historic motor racing event every summer since 2010
didn't work (I like the guys, but they're acquaintances, not friends). It
wasn't until I got hardcore into going to metal/rock concerts and festivals,
and got into pen'n'paper roleplaying that it finally clicked for me, and I
started making friends again.

------
toomanybeersies
I've just recently moved countries, and I've found that it's really difficult
to actually meet people and make new friends, regardless of age. All my
friends are also expats/immigrants.

I don't like spending too much time around tech people, since I do that for 8
hours a day, so tech meetups are out of the question. I went to the hiking
club, but the average age is like 50. Nightclubs just aren't the place to find
friends.

Generally, after school or university, people's circle of friends is fairly
set.

The problem is that after university, we have a lot less free time, and
there's a lot less opportunity to meet people from different backgrounds and
walks of life. Clubs are meetups are great for meeting people with similar
interests, but not so great for broadening your horizons. A lot of the things
I'm interested in now I never would've done if it wasn't for meeting random
people at university.

~~~
sumedh
> All my friends are also expats/immigrants.

I guess immigrants have it bit harder because you come from a different
culture/language/race so connecting with natives is a bit hard and then you
end up connecting with other immigrants.

------
PKop
I'd advise people to join a Crossfit gym. Besides (in my opinion) being a
physically and by extension mentally healthy endeavor, you easily meet and
spend time with a group of adults of various ages going through the same
challenge of the group workouts along side you on a daily basis.

Often times you partner up on workouts, or at the very least talk over what
the day's workout is. Many gyms organize both competitive (friendly) workout
competitions (with other nearby gyms also) as well as social events with
members.

The nature of group physical exertion (high physical stress) provides a low
social stress environment to make casual acquaintances many of which can
become close friends.

I see many in the comments lamenting the practical inability to strike up
random conversations with strangers they encounter throughout the day. In the
gym setting it is very easy to ease into these types of interactions when
desired.. Over time without even trying you become pretty close with the
trainers and members just by nature of being around them often, working
together so to speak towards a common goal.

This is also a great way as a couple to make friends. You join together, and
right from the start you're not on your own.. and often times there are other
couples attending classes as well.

~~~
beager
I've always thought it'd be a great thing to have an app or service that acts
as a "lobby" of sorts to pair you with like-skilled folks for workouts, pickup
sports, runs, etc. For instance, if I run an 11 minute 30 second mile, I'd
love to be paired with someone who also runs that time, so I can enjoy the
activity with someone without them getting mad that I can't run a 7 minute
mile. It's a feature of online gaming matchmaking that I think could work well
in the real world.

------
angarg12
Can there be a cultural bias to this?

Coming from a mediterranean country, many of the points that other comments
raise as problems for meeting people past 30 are not so pronounce.

Is not that it isn't harder to meet people and make strong bonds, but its
common for men in their 40s and 50s to play Football, hang out with their
colleagues for a drink after work, meeting friends of friends, etc.

Generally speaking I feel like social ties are much stronger there, so it may
be worth to take a look at how people behave in other places when addressing
these topics.

------
irrational
When you were younger you probably made friends because you were all in
school/college/university together. Some people make friends at work for the
same reason (I've never really understood this though. After seeing them for 8
hours or so the last thing I want to do is spend time with them outside of
work.) Where else can you go where people are gathered where friendships are
likely to be created? Church/mosque/synagoge/temple/etc. was the typical
answer for thousands of years. Maybe a service club like Kiwanis, Lions,
Rotary? Though I typically think of those belonging to those kinds of clubs as
being old men. Maybe there is somewhere else you could volunteer where you
might meet like-minded people?

~~~
DenisM

      * Sports: lifting, yoga, martial arts, rock climbing, hiking.
      * Adult classes: dancing, cooking, painting.
      * Hobbies: guns, diving, photography, fishing, boating.
      * Lifestyle: all kinds of travel, alcohol and other substances.
      * Professional: startups... eh... scratch that.
      * Charity: pet shelters, soup kitchens, organizing.
      * Politics: volunteering, door-to-door.
    

The trouble begins when you realize you don't actually _care_ about any of
these things.

~~~
leetcrew
> The trouble begins when you realize you don't actually care about any of
> these things.

yeah, this is me. how do you meet the people who just want to sit around,
drink a few beers, chat a little, and maybe watch a movie?

~~~
DenisM
This looks like depression. See a shrink.

~~~
leetcrew
therapists/psychiatrists can't really "cure" depression in most cases; they
can only blunt some of the worst symptoms with drugs or teach coping skills.
this often plays out over the course of years. in the mean time, depressed
people might want to make friendships that they can realistically maintain.
this probably does not include friendships that depend on mutual participation
in activities for which the person has no genuine interest.

~~~
DenisM
That’s not true, not entirely. There is a variety of approaches here, but one
typical approach is for psychiatrist to blunt the symptoms with drugs, just
enough so that you can get yourself together and commit to seeing a
psychotherapist.

Read the first two chapters from the “Feeling good” book by David Burns to get
an idea of what a competent (!) therapist can do.

------
jfv
I've always found that being in a serious/stable relationship tends to slowly
cut people off over time. I honestly like being single in my mid-30's because
there's always a little kick in the pants to get out and socialize that my
married friends don't have.

Every time I end up in a stable live-in relationship (and I've seen this
happen to a lot of my friends as well), the idea of going out and
seeing/making friends more than once a week feels more and more unnecessary
over time. It's so much easier to cook dinner and watch Netflix rather than
get dressed and be on the prowl (both for romantic relationships and
interesting people to hang out with).

~~~
hycaria
On one hand I share your feeling about being on the prowl for new people, on
the other hand when I go out alone, my favorite thing is to meet and get a
taste of people’s life. And then everyone reminds me how much I can’t wait to
come home to my partner who is just better than everyone else in this world. I
wonder if I’ll be able to make new close friends and not just superficially
socialize now that I have someone that just gets me.

I also really wish I could meet older people (I’m in my mid twenties and think
40 to 60) but I don’t know how to proceed. I do from time to time with my in
laws friends but how to find people that age genuinely on my own ...

~~~
ElongateMuskrat
I had the opposite problem using meetup.com in the suburbs to meet young
people like myself. For example, I would go to salsa or swing dancing meet-ups
and all of the people would be couples in your 40 to 60 range. So maybe try
that?

Just curious, why exactly do you want to meet people twice your age?

~~~
hycaria
For many reasons I often hung out with people much older than me. I am the
only one of my age range in my family so I guess I was always surrounded by
adults. I am appalled by calm diners more than bars. Also I like questioning
people's experience, and I'm currently in a place where I have many questions
about later life and I don't have a sufficient sample of people similar to me,
just older, to talk about that sort of stuff.

I just really enjoy the interactions I have with older adults...

------
malvosenior
I wonder how much the current concept of a "friend" is the by product of 20th
century media. Much like adolescence was not what we know it as before
mid-20th century, I can't help but feel that the role of friend (especially
adult friend) was largely shaped by sitcoms. I think the expectation that you
would have adult friends ala Friends (the show) is largely manufactured and
giving people false expectations.

------
waytogo
Super nice thread with inspiring thoughts.

My shot: Once I had a family with wonderful little kids I understood what
'quality time' really is. As much I enjoyed being with my friends or even ex-
girl-friends: If I think back of what we did together (getting wasted, so-so
vacations, mediocre dinner parties, boring talks at coffee shops) it's so much
better now.

It's funny: I am very often invited to dinner parties (private and business
ones). Every single time, I just don't want to go. Not because I am anti-
social, not at all, it's just that I enjoy time with my family so much more—
_they are my friends_.

~~~
jacob019
Thanks for this. Hope to get to that place.

------
motohagiography
Activity friends are key, but that requires activities.

The traditional networks around things like churches, rotary, clubs, chambers
of commerce, masonry, hunt camps, golf, sailing, and political parties still
exist and are open to members. They do require a level of sincerity and self
acceptance that is perhaps outside the comfort zones of many younger people,
but arguably so do friendships.

Friendships for men in particular are fraught in the best of circumstances,
but it's an extra challenge to live in a city and become someone other men
respect enough to keep around over the long term.

------
compatipal
Maybe it helps, but I've built compatipal.com for exactly this reason.
Describe yourself with short attributes (tags), say "JustinBieber" and
"Slipknot"... then find others with an interesting combination of tags in your
proximity and contact them, or let others find you. You have to think a little
about what tag combination describes you best.

The main problems I faced were: Where do you find people when you spend 95% of
your time at home/work? And: I believe part of the reason, why I don't want to
talk to just anybody I meet on the street is not because I'm an introvert, but
rather because it's highly inefficient to talk to hundreds of people and spend
hours of awkward conversation just to maybe find one that I can get along
with.

If you want, you can enter your mail and 2 tags, it's free (just use your spam
email adress if you don't trust me... just make sure, that somebody interested
can contact you). The vision is to someday find your true soulmate(s) with a
few clicks.

------
thomasfromcdnjs
I'd probably just add to all the good answers here that there also might be a
lacking of knowledge around friendship. What good friendship is and takes.

I'm just speculating that abundance, city life plus the internet has taken a
toll on social skills in recent times.

And another point, as someone has said somewhere else in here, "friendship"
could have just been perpetuated by sitcoms. Probably what is more important
is just a community where you see the same faces more often and friendship
would generally just be a natural byproduct of that given enough time.

------
Myrmornis
I've been amazed at how unfriendly neighbours are in the same building with
multiple rented apartments. Literally the only interactions I've had with
neighbours over the last 3 years is when they finally overcome their
disinclination to interact to come, furious, to the door to ask that some
music or TV program be turned down. I always smile and say hello to the people
living in the same building, and at least 70% of the time that is met with
looking in the other direction. (East Bay, San Francisco Bay Area).

~~~
pwaai
I noticed this behavior as well here in vancouver. It's like an unwritten rule
that you need to not interact with your apartment neighbors.

I always suspected being house poor has to do something with it. One time I
overheard a neighbor who was complaining on the phone about how debt ridden
she was. I guess when you are barely scraping you don't have any emotional
space to acknowledge people.

I suspect it's worse for senior citizens as well...

~~~
nugi
I found it is a middle class thing. Most poor areas i lived in, neighbors
banded together. Similar with the affluent crowd. The middle are usually more
busy and stressed and take their stress out on those around them. Family,
coworkers, neighbors.

Its just my experince, but there it is.

------
olivermarks
I think headlines like this are very dangerous. You are either a socially
outgoing person or you're not.

For people who aren't, this confirms their lack of social life as 'a problem'.
This isn't helpful to them on so many levels.

You make friends and grow your social circle by having a common interest with
people. This could be knitting, cars, pacman...it doesn't matter, it's just a
common bond and a language you speak. Meeting in real life is essential
though. Online acquaintances aren't 'friends'....

------
acjohnson55
I think life just gets more complicated. Folks spread out. Work
responsibilities grow. You have to prioritize time with your spouse. You have
kids and their schedules to work around.

My friends aren't the only thing I don't have time for. There are seemingly a
million things I once was enthusiastic about that don't make the cut.

One thing I noticed in the alumni base of a club I was involved in university
is that participation drops to near-zero for the folks who are in their
mid-30s through early-50s. Then it starts to pick up again. It's that time of
having pre-adolescent kids where life seems to really detach people from their
old social circles, but some reemerge once their last kid becomes a teenager.

I just had my first kid and moved to the suburbs, and I can already tell my
physical connections with folks have dropped considerably.

------
ggm
Nobody has said amygdala yet so I will. There. It's out there. If you're under
25, you don't have a fully formed amygdala, and you're open and receptive to
rash ideas. Diving off the roof of a house into the pool. riding on the back
of utility trucks with no seat. Drinking scotch from the bottle. Forming
friends. Then you grow up.

~~~
pwaai
Yeah there's something that happens to our brains once we enter an age where
we are supposed to be rearing offsprings.

But I also suspect a strong socioeconomic factor as well. When you are no
longer in university and in the work force or even a family of your own it
changes priorities a lot.

~~~
skosch
_... once we enter an age where we are supposed to be rearing offsprings._

That's the idea, evolutionarily? Do you have sources for that? Not that it
wouldn't make sense, but if our ancestors had kids as soon as they could then
their offspring would have already been teenagers by the time their amygdala
matured. I'd like to learn more.

------
grimgrin
There is going to be the personality type in here (see: me), that almost goes
about friendships (subconsciously) like they do hobbies / new interests. You
enjoy time with them, and then maybe after some time you sorta burn out.

But also.. there are people you meet (in the past ~4 years it's been IRC
buddies) and it connects extra well. Maybe they're people you really respect
(I'm introspecting), and maybe you realize your _other_ friends were just
filling some loneliness-void without a real foundation in what could be a nice
friendship.

Or maybe you're just bad at maintaining most friendships.

~~~
jacob019
yep, hard to care about making the effort

------
intrasight
I would be interested in hearing what other's think about this from an
economic theory viewpoint. As others mentioned in this discussion

    
    
        friendship = time x struggle
    

Time, for everyone, is the ultimate "limited resource". As a kid, time seems
an unlimited resource. As you get older it becomes more and more limited -
both daily and in absolute quantity.

My situation. At 50 with my daughter off at school, and my wife working/living
a thousand miles away, I realized that many of my "new" friends were coupled
to my daughter and my wife. I didn't have my own friends locally - most were
concentrated in my hometown. I was lonely but really didn't know it.

I go to the gym every day and often take group fitness classes. At some point
a woman showed up in the class who had just moved back after being away a
couple years. She and I became close friends and she introduced me to several
of her close friends. Now I find myself with a very intimate social network
and feel blessed beyond measure. Our is very much a "time x struggle"
closeness - much time together and much of it working out and, when not
working out, sharing our personal struggles.

My advice to anyone who suspects at some level that they are lonely is that
you're probably right. But the world is full of kind, loving, trusting people
- seek them out!

------
Thriptic
I find myself in this boat as we speak, and I'm not even 30. I certainly have
plenty of acquaintances at work and at the hobbies and activities I
participate in, and we do some group things every few months. I also have
several close friends who I chat with every day online who don't live near me
anymore. However, I have 0 real friends who I interact with IRL. If you asked
me who I would call if I was having an emergency and needed help, who I could
share sensitive things with IRL, or who I could call up and ask randomly to
grab a beer with me, I would have no names to give you. That includes the
person I'm in "a relationship" with who also feels more like an acquaintance
to me as we hang out once every few weeks for a few hours and otherwise barely
talk. As a result, I spend most of my weekends just sitting alone working or
trying to entertain myself with content.

I'm not really sure how to proceed, as every time I expend a bunch of effort
and push myself out of the acquaintance stage, that person leaves town for
work and I am stuck right back where I was. It's a large enough problem as to
where I've considered moving to places less advantageous career wise just
because they are less transient.

~~~
hackits
Have you thought about joining a gym? Are you actively seeking out friendships
or befriending people in there 20's? Have you tried connecting with people in
there 40's, 50's?

Personally I think that the world `friend` have been de-valued to the point
used interchangeably with acquaintance. Also the modern social `self help`
book's that mostly recommend venting people from ones life that are too needy
or selfish and to surround yourself with only positive people who only want
you to succeed have accumulated in a situation where people to people contact
is very limtted and when it is its normally criticized and scrutinized for its
merit.

The other end of the stick that I do like waggling is why do you think you
need a friend? Are you soo focused on `friend` that you're not looking after
yourself first? Maybe you're focused on friend because it takes the spotlight
off yourself as the arbiter of your own life? Hell you may have not been
successful because you didn't have a friend!

Focus on yourself, put boundaries around your life. Get a good night sleep,
and focus on being better than you used to be yesterday. Expand your
social/business circles and Friends will follow in a healthy productive way.

~~~
Double_a_92
> Have you thought about joining a gym?

Is it actually common to find friends or even acquaintances there? I always
imagined it as a solitary activity...

------
truebosko
Going through my own such experience, at the ripe age of 32.

Throughout life I had a strong core group of friends. Moved to the city to get
a proper job, and grew my social circle. Between my late 20s and today, I've
seen my friends move away for various reasons (growing family, can't afford
the city, relationships, etc.), and myself having my days taken over by having
a baby boy -- which I enjoy every last bit.

It's been an adjustment. Getting used to the idea of having to sit at home
most nights because your partner is out (and thus, you need to watch the
baby), or simply being too exhausted from work/parenting/life to get back out
of the house after you've put the little one down.

Having my own child, combined with my friends growing in various ways as seen
my social circle crumble. All in a mere two years. It's actually been a bit
shell-shocking!

There's light at the end of the tunnel. I've grown adjusted to my "new
normal", and am finding new ways to create new relationships, or re-connect
with the old ones. I'm setting up board game nights with the dads I've met in
the area, getting out a bit more now that the little one is a bit saner to
manage (although we're thinking of a second .. !), and keeping in touch with
old friends through online games and scheduling time to see them every few
months.

I would implore anyone in a similar situation to not fall into the trap of
thinking it's OK to be without friends. Short term, that seems reasonable
("I'm too busy with my kids and work .."), but long term, I can see that
having serious effects on your personal life, and family.

------
bovermyer
I turn 36 in a week. I find it easy to make friends, but I've never been good
at making the kind of friends I'd die for. There's a handful - less than five.
Even that category, though, fades with time and distance.

This doesn't really bother me. I think relationships are probably more
ephemeral than the zeitgeist would have you believe.

That's not a bad thing, or a good thing. Just an observation based on
anecdotal experience.

------
nikanj
"Your application is super interesting, but we don't have any openings right
now" seems to be one factor. People have only so much "slots" for friends, and
most people fill those slots in their teens and 20s.

------
_mischief
36, recently moved to London and struggling to find friends, especially other
techies.

I know people often recommend meetups, and I have attended a variety of those
over the last year. The pattern I've noticed, especially on tech meetups, is
that people show up in small groups with their existing friends or colleagues.
If you come up and start a conversation, they mostly don't engage (bring up
new topics, respond at length) - they just respond in a passive way to keep
the minimum level of politeness, and wait until you realise they want to go
back to talking with their friends. Starting a conversation with a stranger
seems to be a rude thing to do, since you're making them uncomfortable.

The ones that do engage turn out to be non-tech (recruiters, marketers, people
who want to start a tech career but don't know how), or people desperately
looking for a job and thus checking if you can get them into anything.

What success I've had was:

\- making friends at work (but for some reason it's always non-tech people -
probably for the competition reason mentioned in the article - and it falls
apart because they already have better friends they prioritise)

\- starting a gaming group (but that had no followup - if I don't run a game,
people don't invite me to their other things)

\- making friends with a neighbour (an old lady open to friendship with
anyone, that seems to have held up since she's retired and has lots of time)

At this point, I'm lost for ideas.

Google "London friends" or something, and you'll find people talking about how
they're lonely and they'd like more friends. Seriously, where do those
mythical lonely people exist?

------
jchallis
I have found Randi Zuckerberg's quip that of [family, sleep, fitness, friends
and work] you can focus on three at a time. For me, it's family, work and
fitness. If I have extra time, I use it for sleep. Friends are critically
important. They just aren't as important as family, work, fitness and sleep.
If I had more free time, I'd invest more in sleep than finding relationships.

~~~
pritishc
Doesn't fitness imply the need for sleep?

~~~
jchallis
Yes. I'll refine to exercise/eat healthy as these require explicit time.

------
SubiculumCode
It is hard to make friends. In some ways, we turn to online communities. Take
for example HN. A great resource of intelligent knowledgeable people. But
because the focus here is on high signal to noise postings, relationship
building is not exactly encouraged. If there is one thing I'd like in a site
like this, is a dual-mode. e.g. High-quality posts in the thread, but a side
mode for chat.

~~~
nugi
I would love this.

Are there any HN, or generally similar quality chatrooms, maybe discord? I
have seen a few, but most were code focused rather than social.

------
rweba
I remember reading and commenting on this same article when it was posted a
few years ago.

I agree with most of the comments posted here.

In a certain sense making friends is really very simple.

But, to paraphrase one of my favorite quotes, that does not mean that it is
EASY.

It just requires CONSISTENTLY spending A LOT of time in a collegial atmosphere
with someone. If you do that, assuming you have a few things in common and
don't annoy the heck out of each other, you will inevitably become friends.

This is why people make such good friends in college or in the army.

But consistently spending a lot of time with someone you just met is not easy
for most adults outside of a romantic relationship or a work thing.

It's the paradox of choice, we have so many activities going on and different
options on ways to spend our time that we have a hard time being consistent
with developing any one specific relationship.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice)

------
make3
I just get bored by the new people I meet, which makes me sad; I don't feel
emotionally invested in the new folks I meet at all

~~~
zbentley
Insisting on rapid emotional investment (in either direction) with new
acquaintances, while not "wrong" per se, is equivalent to saying you'll only
date people for whom you feel instant infatuation/"love at first sight".

It massively reduces your options. These things take work, practice, and time.

------
SubuSS
It is very interesting to read all these comments: I am trying to see why the
'social' networks aren't able to fill this gap of camaraderie (assuming that's
what people are looking for when they say friendships).

What are we worried about? The public nature of discussions? Worry about
putting yourself out there and getting digitally recorded for ever? Why aren't
we able to have a tinder for friends as a successful service? Yeah I can build
yet another one but I am trying to see where my employer and other competitors
are failing. Is there a giant gap of being able to discover like minded people
/ enable rich experiences that these aren't filling?

FWIW from my side, I have had pretty deep / enriching discussions here / on
reddit / stackoverflow etc. which have always been good enough. So I am
probably not the right sample set to answer these :\

~~~
SubuSS
I don't know if anyone cares at this point, but I did google around and found
an app called Patook that's for this: I didn't dig further than play around,
but it is something others might want to check out! FYI.

------
diaperIITB
I moved country when I was 21 for my first job, it was a complete culture
shock to me and I didn't know anybody.

It is really hard to make friends even when you are young. Living in shared
apartment, playing sport you love, going for dance classes, etc. These
activities definitely helps. It took me 1 year to finally crack the code.

~~~
sitajay
I have somewhat similar experience. I shifted from a small town to a metro
city for pursuing my undergraduate programme. I was alienated from the whole
class for not being 'cool' or 'hip' enough to hangout with them. External
biases made it really hard for me to make friends.

It took me time to get comfortable with who I am and what are my values. But
still, I have an inferiority complex which hinders me to get along with
anybody as the college experience still loops in my mind saying I am not
enough.

------
drewmol
I agree it takes consistent effort to develop new friendships well into
adulthood (like any worthwhile relationship). For most, during
childhood/adolescence/young adulthood it takes consistent effort to NOT
develop friendships, the opportunities are often forced upon you.

Advise: If you are an adult who is struggling to find friendship and find
yourself pushing away opportunities bc of (percieved) unequal interest: Resist
your ego's crusade of misery.

If you've ever flaked on someone for a reason other than: you secretly hate
them, or malicous disrespect... try calling an 11th time, maybe even a
15th(...apply discression here, and of course not in a row).

Relationships are not a zero sum game, don't wait for hubris to rationalize
loneliness.

Edit: also, meetup.com

------
SubuSS
It is a relationship and like any relationships, it takes a ton of time and
energy to nurture and grow. It won't be fair to the other person if I don't
have one or other.

I have a family, a heavy cycling habit and a demanding job: I don't really
have time to make and maintain serious friendships outside these activities.
What friendships I have right now are from my single days - they hangout with
us during various vacations/dinners etc. But new friendships are pretty much
impossible because of a lack of time. If these old friends move away etc.,
then it is pretty much going to be hermit style after that :)

------
dep_b
Boardgames are an excellent gateway drug into friendships. Some people you
already know or meet love to play them once you get your initial party
together, get enthusiastic about them, invite other people they know and
before you know it you have a thriving community of people around you.

All that for not more than US$200 in games annually which is way less I spend
in beer and much more effective. And boardgamers tend to be (but not
exclusively are) on the geekier side of life so I have an easier connection to
most people, shared interests or people do things that I think are really cool
but never did etcetera.

------
lsiebert
I play in a regular board game night in SF (south of market), where I've met
plenty of people. Being involved in various types of gaming for most of my
life, and that has lead to multiple friendships in my life, and with online or
networks of games/gaming clubs, I've travelled across the country and was able
to see people I know in basically every city.

And I'm really not that good at being social. I'm rather introverted, really,
but having a shared activity makes getting together a lot easier. If I click
with someone friend wise I can always suggest we get lunch sometime.

------
leggomylibro
As someone petering towards the end of their 20s with no friends or people in
their life at all...

Y'all are scaring me.

~~~
Double_a_92
Same here. Wanna be friends? xD

I always associated friendship with the things we were doing togheter. E.g. in
college my mates were friends because we could work on projects togheter while
having some fun doing it. Without that they are just random nice people that I
happened to know... There was never an urge to do more with them like drinking
a beer or so. Am I weird?

------
errantmind
One of the reasons it is hard to make friends as an adult is because the
associate between sincerity and naivety grows stronger over time. The more you
get burned or see people get burned, the more closed off you become to real
interpersonal connection. This is the default behavior. Once you realize this
though you can do something about it. Ultimately you have to be willing to be
vulnerable, to stick your neck out in order to cross that barrier from
'associate' to friend

------
yason
Friendships need presence and presence can be supported by hanging out and/or
commitment. Ideally both but commonly by only one or the other.

Phases in life make hanging out easier in the early life and harder in
midlife, then easier again when you're old. In turn, commitment usually
depends on the particular individuals and not so much from the age.

The relationship between some friends you were hanging out with in your
twenties might lack commitment and they tend to disappear as you grow older.
Things were easy as long as you kept seeing each other anyway. Then again,
some people you might see less frequently but you somehow know they'll always
be there somehow when needed; that is commitment.

When you're middle-aged you don't generally have time to hang out. So you need
to build on commitment instead: find people you actually care about and who
actually care about you, and who can be relied on even if you can't see every
month. Unfortunately, finding these people is a rarity. It's only slightly
easier than finding a life-long spouse, and you probably can't expect to find
more than a small handful during your life.

Friendships need to be intentionally nurtured but also sufficiently balanced.
It's easy to find "friends" who you will listen to but who never have the time
or patience to listen to you. Or "friends" who need you as an entertainer:
they aren't interested in you in particular, they just long for company, any
company. In this case you're giving more than your "friend", and you'll
eventually grow grumpy about seeing the person. Averaged over the years, you
should be getting back about as much as you put in the relationship yourself
for a fruitful companionship. If it's always you who has to call and suggest
something, you'll just be annoyed at some point. Both need to nurture,
support, and invest in the relationship in roughly equal amounts on some,
probably slightly relative, scale.

It's also harder to find friends in midlife because your bar has gone higher
up. You've learned the value of just friends and good friends in all the rough
seas of life, and you just won't bother with everyone who's nice. You realise
that life is finite and it's often more valuable to do things on your own
rather than in a company where you only connect on some levels.

------
bawana
The older you get, the clearer you see the end of the tunnel. You've heard the
quip 'Life is too short'. Well, the work of making friends , of defining how
much committment there is to a relationship, etc...is not worth it. Happiness
is something only you can allow yourself to have. And once you realize this,
who needs the risk of having an emotional downside through a new relationship
when you might not have enough time to right yourself??

~~~
urlwolf
This is very interesting. First time I hear anyone say that cultivating
friendship is not worth it.

~~~
bawana
I didnt say it wasnt worth it. I just said that the value of a relationship
requires a certain amount of time. As you approach the end of your life, the
equilibrium of a friendship will not be attained and interpersonal
relationships may be terminated (due to death of one of the participants) in
disequilibrium - basically, you try to make a friend but that effort fails and
you are emotionally drained at the end of your life. It would have been better
to spend your time with people you know doing things you like.

------
arca_vorago
I would like to take a moment and say how invaluable I have found online tools
to maintaining a modern friendships. I met people in ventrillo playing counter
strike in my early college days right after getting out of the Marine Corps
who still show up on our various mumble servers on the reg, over 10 years
later. Some of them live across in the world. Germany. Sweden. GB. Thousands
of miles are nothing for online friendships.

------
VLM
The puzzle is unsolvable if you ask why can't I find friends. Probably nothing
wrong with you.

The puzzle is instantly solvable if you ask why can't I be a good friend to
others. Lets see, at age 19 I was juggling part time school, Army Reserves
service, a grunt manual labor job, and an internship fake job, I was kinda
busy. At age 22 I was working a semi-challenging full time programming job
while still going to school just under the full time tuition credit limit to
finally get my CS degree, so MTWR all night lectures and saturday morning
class lectures until noon, so if someone said "hey lets have some beers" I'd
be like LOL no. Starting around age 31 I was busy for a couple years with my
father's obscure diagnosis terminal liver cancer which appeared out of the
blue for no reason and couldn't be correctly diagnosed for months, which means
not just the illness but helping mom move to apartment and sell the old house
after fixing it up a bit, honestly I don't think I had a minute off from age
31 to about 33 or so when things started settling down. From age 29 until,
well, frankly now, I have been busy raising two kids, and "daddy please come
to my soccer game" trumps "hey lets have some beers" every time. And I spent
most of age 30 talking to gastroENT doctors and dietitians and pediatricians
about what ended up being Celliac disease for my older son, which ironically
is very relaxing once you emerge from the medical industrial complex with a
diagnosis, but until then its endless hell. At age 44 my MiL is slowing down
and its time to move her from her house full of stuff requiring some repairs
and cleanup to an apartment or "assisted living" or whatever, so I'm guessing
this will consume about a year or two of my life. Around age 26 I got married,
must have done it right still married to her, but doing a standard big
spending American style marriage meant we consumed pretty much a year of our
spare time, and I was merely the groom (tux fitting is like 15 minutes one
time for guys whereas custom handmade wedding gown fitting is like five two
hour trips to the gown maker for a dress she only wore a couple hours on the
big day, for example)!

So yeah I have no idea why some dude can't find friends, but I could write for
pages why I would be a terrible friend to someone who needed time. Lets face
it, some rando from a hobby or work is pretty low on the totem pole which is
crammed with family members.

~~~
turingcompeteme
> but I could write for pages why I would be a terrible friend to someone who
> needed time

And in the time it took you to write those pages you could have instead
started the basis of a friendship with someone. Yes, you are terribly busy,
but I guarantee you that there are people who are much busier than you who
still maintain friendships.

It sounds like you have already given up on making friends, but I hope that's
not the case. It really is worth it, but it means making an effort, and maybe
a slight shift in priorities.

I think you also overestimate how much time friends require. I average maybe
an hour a week and that is more than enough to maintain multiple friendships.

~~~
opportune
For me it's not the time to _make_ a friend that's a problem, it's the time
required to find someone worth being friends with. In fact in many ways I
think posting on the internet is more enjoyable (in the short term) than
trying to make a new friend because you can have good, yet ephemeral,
conversations

------
mjcohen
If you want to meet people with a common interest, try improv. Going through a
series of improv classes with the same group gets you well acquainted.

One thing I like about improv is that I am forced to interact with others,
something I was not good at. Now I am better. Not great, but definitely
better.

Plug: In Los Angeles, I recommend the Westside Comedy Theater
(westsidecomedy.com) just off the Santa Monica 3rd Street Promenade. Very
welcoming to all.

------
emodendroket
> Thayer Prime, a 32-year-old strategy consultant who lives in London, has
> even developed a playful 100-point scale (100 being “best friend forever”).
> In her mind, she starts to dock new friend candidates as they begin to
> display annoying or disloyal behavior. Nine times out of 10, she said, her
> new friends end up from 30 to 60, or little more than an acquaintance.

> “You meet someone really nice, but if they don’t return a call, drop to 90,
> if they don’t return two calls, that’s an immediate 50,” she said. “If
> they’re late to something in the first month, that’s another 10 off.” (But
> people can move up the scale with nice behavior, too, she added.)

OK, here is one case where the lack of friends is not mystifying at all.

~~~
JimboOmega
Besides the obvious craziness of keeping track of these things...

It's worth noting that some people are just completely shit at timeliness, no
matter how important the thing is.

I am and so are my a lot of my friends "I'm running 30 minutes late!" often
meets a "No worries, I might be an hour". A punctuality obsessed person would
hate me.

~~~
groby_b
If you are running 30 minutes late, you are saying that whatever you did in
those 30 minutes is significantly more important than the fact that the other
person loses 30 minutes.

Occasionally, that is true. Most often, it is simply a sign that you
disrespect the other person.

It's not about being "obsessed with punctuality", it's about realizing that
the other person has a schedule that you are impacting as well. And then
choosing to not give a damn, in the case of perpetual lateness.

~~~
JimboOmega
It's very possible to have every intent and desire to be on time, and still
fail at it. Some people have problem with things like attention and executive
function that make planning in time very difficult.

For you it might be an issue of not caring. IT's not for everyone.

~~~
BrandoElFollito
This reminds me of all these obese people who a are obese because of "health
issues", to cover their horrific lifestyle. 98% of the cases, probably (I am
being generous).

Same with the timekeeping : some feel that they are so unique and mentally
impaired that keeping time is beyond them. But they just do not give a shit
about others.

I was 30 kg overweight and had all kind of excuses (including a medical
condition). I then moved out of this comfort zone and lost the extra weight.
Some peopke will not be able to do that, this is their choice. I will not pity
them and certainly not allow for any specific arrangements if I see this is
their fault. And yes, when you see someone drinking coke after coke and
inguritating mountains of food you are not at risk of hitting the unfortunate
2%.

So get a watch, leave an hour early. If an hour is not enough, two hours. Yes,
this is impacting but then you choose which time is more important for you. I
apologize if you are in the 2% of people who cannot afford a watch or read the
time with understanding.

~~~
tobr
This comment is perpetuating many falsehoods about obesity. For most people
with chronic obesity, it is not really a matter of willpower. Just because the
direct cause of their condition is too high food intake, it does not mean that
it’s a “choice”. Their bodies are programmed to require large amounts of food.
Losing weight by willpower in the short term just increases the signals to
eat, and may cause weight gain in the long run.

The only effective treatment in the long run is gastric bypass.

~~~
BrandoElFollito
This comment comes from me travelling all the time between Asia, Europe and
the US.

And comparing the volume of people in different countries, usually US or
wealthy China vs. France (my country) or Italy or Japan.

The difference is striking. It doesn't come from the fact that Americans or
wealthy Chinese have some physiological problem: they just eat TONS of food
and drink pure sugar (last one is for the US).

One should not look for fancy explanations when the evidence is there: people
are more and more obese because they eat shitty food and drink sugar.

And do not talk me about "the poors who cannot afford anything else". We have
poverty in France as well, and these people are not horrifically obese.

Chronic obesity means chronic overeating. Except for the infinitesimal
minority wich was obese 100 years ago as well because of the weird gene. When
they become obese, they are programmed to be even more obese. Or "big boned".

And like with everything in life, willpower moves you ahead in most cases.
There is one genius for every 100 hard working people (with willpower) and 100
slackers (in the same demographics).

I cut by 1/3 to 1/2 what I was eating. I eat the same things, just less. And
more fruit, and almost no sugar. Was it hard? Yes, to a point. Was it
excruciating? No - I was just salivating while looking at a nice cake and my
brain decided to say "no".

I still have a hamburger from time to time (say, every two weeks). It is
European size.

My kid made a cake, I had two parts (even if it was awful, way too sugary).

I bike to the office because I love it, and play sports again. Just because I
WANT TO.

~~~
tobr
I’m not saying that obesity does not come from eating too much and/or eating
the wrong type of food. I’m talking about the mechanisms that drive this
behavior, and what it takes to beat them. Willpower is not enough to beat
actual, chronic/morbid obesity. The only known solution is surgery.

Your comments are bordering on fat-shaming, which I find completely
unacceptable.

------
wruza
My guess is that I’m not interested in people at all, and so are my remaining
friends. From time to time you meet a person who has a potential to be friends
with, but all the potential activities you’ve already seen and got bored of. I
don’t get drunk, high, do not do crazy things or sharp discussions anymore.
Common interests are just that - common interests. What makes you friends with
someone is not just spending time together, but doing something you’ll never
do with random people (though few people think they _are_ your friends because
they spent some time with you). Now most of ‘still friends’ that I have simply
offload their problems to someone’s ears when we meet, or endlessly discuss
material matters like property prices, car options and female parameters.

I don’t think you can make true friends in 30s unless you’re taking part in a
war-like activity.

~~~
loorinm
There are a lot of worthy causes that are great places to make “warlike”
effort in. Therefore friendships happen when each individual chooses to go
fight the war worth fighting. Your friends are the people who meet you there
on the battlefield.

Whether it’s equality or justice or art or freedom or inclusion or community,
those are all things worth fighting for.

------
brango
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the pick up community, AKA gaming (as in "The
Game"). It's a good way for hetero guys to meet other hetero guys. A lot of
people who stick with it are the type who want to better themselves in some
way, which is quite inspiring. Plus, you'll learn skills to meet loads of
girls as well, and it's up to you whether you choose to put in the time to
have them as friends.

I know a lot of people who it's helped, and I've made some good friends
through it as well. The social skills can also be translated to
business/events so even if you're not interested in a stream of conquests, it
can be valuable. It's the one thing I wish I'd found when I was at university.

------
cvaidya1986
To me making friends is organic. Follow your interests and you’ll meet fellow
travelers in your path.

------
ahallock
For me, and especially because I work remotely, it's because there's no
central gathering place. Schools and colleges make it easy to find friends.
Work a little less so, but I still managed to have a lot of friends there as
well.

~~~
misnamed
Sounds like you need a 'third place' \- I had one for a while, then it closed
down (and I moved). But when you find one, they're great:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place)

~~~
VLM
Genealogy can be interesting. My ancestors "third places" have mostly closed
down. I'm the first in my male lineage in an unknown but large number of
generations to not be a Freemason. On the other side of the family, Church is
not politically cool today.

~~~
ValentineC
I've found my local hackerspace to be an awesome "third place", and we're
hoping to figure out a way to market it as such to boost our dwindling
membership.

~~~
surge
My best friends came from a local (now defunct hackerspace) which spun into a
lock picking group (of which some people from hacker space were members, which
spun into some of my best friendships and a recent career move.

------
brango
I can recommend the book Anatomy of Friendship [1] by Reisman. It's an old
book but dispels the myth that things are more difficult now than in days gone
by, since he quotes ancient Greeks/Romans lamenting the difficulties of
friendship.

It really made me understand friendship, how to make friends, and how
friendship varies throughout our lives. Definitely worth digging up a copy.
It's a shame it's no longer in print.

[1]
[https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Anatomy_of_Friendship...](https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Anatomy_of_Friendship.html?id=G63aTaSNeNAC)

------
book_mentioned
Show HN: Kismet – get an e-mail introduction to a fellow HN member every day |
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16393566](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16393566)

------
mc_rorie
I found this particular quote to resonate with me: "We keep trying to get over
the hump, but life gets in the way." This continued to happen to me over and
over again and I couldn't find any personal tools that helped me get over that
hump. As a direct result of my frustration, I am building a solution for this
problem called Considerit (considerit.co). Check us out if this sounds like
something you would be interested in and sign up for our Beta. Our goal is to
help you achieve the outcomes you want with your relationships.

------
tr0ut
I don't really believe it is harder across the board after 30. I think it can
be difficult in certain situations. But overall I believe it to actually be
easier after 30. You're no longer trying to fit in or trying to be with a
person/s for reasons other than pure friendship. You're most likely settled a
bit in your life at this stage. Thus not competing for things. Probably
planted roots in the area you're residing for various reasons. I think these
things make it easier later in life.

~~~
emodendroket
Yeah, but you also have a job you can't just blow off like you can your
college classes and maybe a family or other obligations, and then on top of
that you aren't constantly being more or less forced to socialize the way you
are in school. When you combine that with the waning of institutions (really
everything from religious groups to voluntary associations to bowling leagues)
you have a recipe for lonely people.

------
Dowwie
I've organized my life around career and family. Forging relationships at work
hasn't transcended employment in that I lose touch shortly after leaving an
organization. I've found that professional communities, from executive mba
program to various tech communities, as having the potential to create new
relationships but it requires time and tending to, and so now I am in my late
30s affirming the challenges of making friends. Acquaintances, however, are
far easier to achieve.

------
kibrad
speaking as 33 year old, i can tell you why people don't make friends with me
- because i don't want any friends. my wife and children + colleagues are more
than enough

------
losteverything
I'm the guy people want to ne friends with. Im very friendly. I don't want
friends. Most end the same way: we connect, share & remember things, then i
turn cold and act less interested. Then we become good acquaintances. This
pattern existed way back in high schoolHi

Having friends is not on my list of success Or even a positive achievement.
Being friendly is at the top of the list.

I say to people i meet and to others now, make sure the potential friend
really wants the job.

------
rafi_kamal
I'm 24 I'm already finding it hard to make new good friends. To me a good
friend is someone whom I can reach out to without thinking twice, it could be
for discussing that shower thought, ranting about the work, asking for
suggestions when I'm in trouble, talking about the book I just read. I made
quite a few friends since college in the sense that I hang out with them from
time to time, but not any good friends.

~~~
Markoff
why it has to be one person IRL? I can do most of this on reddit and i am way
older

~~~
nyedrytdyf
there are definitely different dynamics. IRL a person will get back to right
away; online, your comments can be ignored. IRL, you have the context of the
person's personality to supplement the content of what they're saying (for
better or for worse, but definitely different).

human communication is also hardly only based on just speaking words, with
body language and gestures and facial expressions working to convey full
meaning. it is hard to feel warmth in online discussions, or at least harder.

furthermore, online discussion seems much more targeted, and less exploratory
in terms of subject matter (this is neutral, not saying better or worse)
whereas IRL you can flow from topic to topic. also, i'd say discussing
personal topics in person is more rewarding due to a combination of all the
above.

------
sebringj
Situational Proximity - Beside the obvious compatibilities...If you are
continually around someone in your youth and hang out, you tend to make long
lasting friends. If you are partially and sporadically around someone because
of logistics (spouse, work, location) you will not make long lasting bonds at
the level you would compared to the first example. The other parts of the
discussion are not significant to those points IMO.

------
ravenstine
The article makes it pretty clear that relationships and marriage take the
place of friends, especially for men. 30 is also that sort of point where
women who haven't had kids already think "uh oh, better soon than never". I
can see the downvotes coming already for speaking on behalf of women, but I
have more female friends than male ones and the number 30 is universally
dreaded for the reason I describe. Well, then there's the looks factor which,
take it how you will, but society generally views that age as "the wall". So
by that point, you'd better have found your partner in life. If that's one's
goal, and it is for most people, are you going to expend your energy finding
more friends or are you going to expend it towards finding a "life-long" mate?

I'm nearing 30, and I'd say over 90% of my friends have significant others.
Long-term relationships significantly changes a person's behavior; the concept
of friendship gradually shifts towards "How can I include my SO in this?" If
we go to the movies, it's gotta be a film that he/she is going to like, and
they don't like scary movies so that's out of the question now. Maybe your
existing friends you've still got around will tolerate this, but new friends
aren't going to do everything that your SO wants to do. With my guy friends
especially, everything now revolves around what their SO wants to do even when
their SO actually permits us to go off and do guy things. I think this happens
to most people, though, and I would be no exception if I was in a
relationship. As the article states, good luck if you are trying to make
friends with another couple. Chances are at least one person in that party
isn't really interested in the friendship.

Putting aside that constraint, however, I haven't had that much difficulty
making friends at my age. I think a lot of people figure out that most people
aren't worth their time, thus friends really don't provide all that much. As
long as you've got a couple good friends who have your back even if you
haven't talked in months, you're golden. If you're in a relationship with
someone, the even less you need the company of others.

People also get dull by the time they're in their 30s. They spent so much time
working and relationshipping that they lost a lot of imagination and didn't
really expand their horizons as much as their Instagrams would suggest. I'm
not saying this is a permanent state, but a doldrum that happens after a
person has spent so much time ticking off the boxes of things they're supposed
to accomplish. That's what tunnelvision can do to a person. It's definitely
possible to get out of it, which is probably why my few real friends are
either in their early-to-mid 20s or past 40.

~~~
Myrmornis
You'll find, when you get to 40, that you were confusing 30 with 40 in this
post.

~~~
amyjess
I'm 33, and my experience has basically been the same as the GP.

Past a certain point, you never see your friends again unless they're
accompanied by their SO, and once they have kids, their lives revolve around
their kids and nothing else.

And I'll always remember the culture shock when I a new job where my coworkers
were mostly in their 30s while my coworkers at my last job were all in their
20s. Office conversations at the new company mostly centered on the logistics
of taking out a second mortgage, debates over what kind of grass to put in
their yards, and talk of what their children are up to. I was 30 at the time,
and I decided then and there that these were people I had nothing whatsoever
in common with, and if this is what I have to look forward to as I get older,
I don't really want a social life anymore.

~~~
watwut
That does not sound like they don't have friends, that sounds like they talk
about what is current or important for them with their friends in the office.

~~~
amyjess
Oh no, that's not what I meant. I'm sorry if I worded my post poorly.

I meant that the kinds of conversations that typical 30-somethings have are
conversations that starkly remind me that people my age and older by and large
aren't people I identify with.

------
mgeorgoulo
Chances are, older people have been deceived more. This is a reason to be a
bit more sceptical upon meeting a new person. While this may be subtle in
itself, the very assumption that your peer may also be sceptical about you can
make the situation even harder. I'm afraid it takes two naive individuals,
blindly disregarding the risks, to start a meaningful friendship.

------
booleandilemma
I feel like everyone I meet nowadays is too self-centered and competitive to
be friends with.

Does anyone else feel this way? I hope I’m not just projecting.

~~~
jacob019
Yes. People lose their luster over time. What has changed is the self and ones
perspective. What does it say about yourself when you notice peoples faults
instead of what you admire in them? The faults were there all along.

~~~
nyedrytdyf
i want my luster back

------
staticelf
I am soon to be 28 and do not have many friends. However, it is by choice.
Partly because I have moved around a lot and partly because there is no need
for me to have a lot of friends.

But I have also noticed that is very hard and very much so for me that works
remotely, not attending any sports events or similar and spend way too much
time either gaming or working of side projects.

------
amyjess
I'm 33.

I had a lot of friends when I was in college. I think I hung out with like
four different groups of people, and I'd often introduce people in different
groups to each other.

After I graduated, everything slowly fell apart. As the years went by, we all
slowly but surely drifted away. I'm at the point where I hang out with very
few people in real life anymore. I have one very close friend from college who
I still go out drinking with every few weeks, but he's it. Facebook has been a
life saver here: I still talk with old friends all the time on Facebook, but
our friendships are mostly confined to Facebook. Every once in a while,
someone will say to me "We should totally hang out again sometime!", and I'd
be like "Sure, that sounds awesome!", and nothing ever comes of it. I don't
think there's anything malicious involved; I just think that both of us are
too socially awkward to actually schedule a time and a place to meet up. There
have been a couple of exceptions, where "We should totally hang out again
sometime!" turns into concrete plans, but those are few and far between.

And it's worse if they're married and doubly so if they have kids. I think,
before I go any farther, I should point out that I have no interest in ever
having children, and I'm aromantic, which means that I am mentally incapable
of feeling romantic attraction for another person. Though I'm technically a
lesbian, I'm functionally asexual just because I have no interest in being
part of a couple.

Take the guy I used to call my best friend, for example. As soon as he met the
person who eventually became his wife, I never saw him alone again. This was a
guy who was like a brother to me; we'd often stay up late at night and talk to
each other about anything and everything, and we'd often confide things in
each other that we'd never tell anyone else (for example, he was the first
person I ever came out to). But as soon as he met her, I couldn't hang out
with him without his girlfriend/fiancee/wife tagging along. Hell, when he got
engaged, I invited him out to a bar so I could buy him a glass of scotch to
congratulate him on his engagement, and he brought her along there! It got to
the point where I couldn't have a serious conversation with him. It also
really annoyed me, whenever we'd hang out at a bar, she'd decide she was tired
and wanted to go back. They'd tab out ASAP and leave as soon as their credit
card came back. I am, by the way, talking about a bar that's literally right
across the street from their apartment. They'd disappear before I could even
finish my last drink... before he met her, when one of us would get tired and
decide to end the night, we'd at least both stick around until we finished our
last drinks and then go home at the same time.

Or, for some of people I know who have kids, their kids are all they talk
about. I've had to unfollow a lot of people on Facebook because their Facebook
feeds just become constant streams of pictures of their kids and updates on
their kids' lives (the only person I make an exception for on this is my
cousin, and that's only because her kids are my family too). I've heard from a
lot of people my age that they make most of their new friends by befriending
the parents of their children's friends, so being childfree that completely
cuts off the main avenue of making new friends for people my age (and
honestly, it sounds like a terrible way of making new friends, where the only
thing you have in common is that your kids like each other).

Making new friends at my age sounds more like pretending than anything else. I
dread the idea of joining someone's existing friend group and struggling to
understand all their little in-jokes. And even when I do understand them, they
won't have any emotional impact on me because I wasn't there when the joke
started. And if they're my age, they're going to be spending a lot of time
reminiscing over the good old days, and that will always make me feel left out
because I'm the newbie who didn't share the good old days with them. I'll
always be the fifth wheel.

And then there's the fact that some of my former friends have become genuinely
shitty people. Take my former best friend who I was talking about two
paragraphs ago. Over the last few years, he's gone down an extreme alt-right
rabbit hole. He'd always been a libertarian and a Christian, but he was always
one of the good ones, and now he's gone full blown religious right extremist.
His Facebook feed has largely consisted of memes with transphobic slurs, Nigel
Farage videos, videos about how gay people can't get into heaven, screeds
about how Jimmy Fallon's son deserved to die, the "piece of shit" meme about
single mothers, etc. He went from being one of the most caring and
compassionate people I knew to an utter monster. And, yes, his wife is
partially responsible for this. She's an extreme tradcon who believes that a
woman's highest calling is to be a 1950s housewife, and she's brought out the
absolute worst in him. Eventually, after realizing he's too far gone to ever
come back, I started ghosting both of them. I haven't spoken to him in over a
year, and I actively avoid going to places where I know they like to hang out.
I do, however, take a perverse pleasure in watching my count of mutual friends
with him on Facebook drop like a rock. And they're all from people unfriending
him. One of those people was a groomsman at his wedding, who publicly told him
to "fuck off" after he posted something really heinous. The only good thing to
come out of this though is that him going off the deep end has rekindled my
friendships with his exes. The last two times "We should totally hang out
again sometime!" actually resulted in something concrete happening have been
with two of his exes, and we bonded over how he's turned into a horrible
person. One of them even said that meeting me was the best thing that came out
of dating him (and she's one of my friends who has a kid, but she's one of the
few people I know who has kids where I can have a conversation with her about
something other than her kid).

But, honestly, losing the man who was at one time the closest thing I had to a
brother fucked me up really badly. I don't have anyone who I could talk to the
way I talked to him back in the day. We'd been through so much together, and
he'd been right there with me for every single important milestone in my life
since I was 19. We got each other into music, TV shows, hobbies, etc. He got
me into goth music, and I got him into Doctor Who. I took up photography for a
time because I wanted to be like him. I can't replace that. There is nobody I
can meet tomorrow who I will ever have that kind of deep friendship with,
because all these important milestones in my life have already passed, and
I'll never get to go back in time and experience those milestones with someone
else. I have one close friend left (the guy I still go drinking with every few
weeks) who I went through a lot of these milestones with, but I never spent
nearly as much time with him as I did with he-who-shall-not-be-named, and our
relationship wasn't quite as deep. Oh, don't get me wrong, it's deeper than
most other friendships I've had, and he's far more than just another drinking
buddy, but not to the extent of thinking of him as my brother. I'm just not
going to find another brother (or sister) at my age, as it's the kind of
relationship you have to start cultivating when you're very young. The way I
see it, I have another 30-40 years left in me before my body gives out, and
I'm going to spend all of them without having the kind of friend I had from 19
to 31. I don't really know how I'm going to deal with that.

~~~
jeffreyrogers
> The way I see it, I have another 30-40 years left in me before my body gives
> out, and I'm going to spend all of them without having the kind of friend I
> had from 19 to 31. I don't really know how I'm going to deal with that.

Most people try to find this sort of friend in a relationship.

~~~
nyedrytdyf
is that how it actually ends up going down though? a romantic relationship has
so many other variables to consider, and the dynamic is far different: you
live with this person; eventually, in most cases, you pledge to live with them
forever; you are sexually involved with this person; they are your "ONE"
person designated as most important (this doesn't really happen with friends,
at least not officially); you might raise a child together, a massive
responsibility to which mutual responsibilities undertaken with friends hardly
compare.

i think that our innate evolutionary heuristic for finding a romantic partner
is quite different from that which is used to find friends and this difference
definitely impacts who we select. it seems naive to assume that the majority
of romantic relationships are simply opposite-sex friends who are roommates
that have sex. at least when we look at romantic relationships that last a
while.

i want to believe it's that simple, but i have a hard time doing so.

------
rdiddly
Now _there 's_ something noticeable by its presence in a 2012 article - a
Louis CK quote.

Anyway the article names various and sundry complicated and small
manifestations of this phenomenon, but what's the big picture? Maybe making
friends past a certain age is hard because it's unnatural and somewhat
irrelevant? Maybe making friends is just another naturally- and
reproductively-selected trait that helps with mating and is much less relevant
otherwise. Meaning that wanting friends, results in having more friends, which
means more hunting/foraging helpers and teachers of same, which makes you more
likely to survive long enough to mate, and more likely to find a mate (since
all your friends will have siblings etc., and the ones from outside your tribe
are particularly valuable statistically/genetically speaking) and successfully
pass that friendly tendency on to the next generation.

Or heck maybe wanting friends is an indirect and sublimated sexual urge in and
of itself. It's not like homosexuality comes outta nowhere. And/or maybe being
with one person is psychologically a surrogate or substitute for (or practice
for later) being with your mate, just like owning a dog is to having children.

Anyway, once all the mating stuff is over with, maybe you're immune to it all.
I don't have much to go on here, other than 1) my tendency to look to
evolution and the Ape for explanations of human behavior, and 2) the fact that
I noticed I lost interest in friends as soon as I found a mate I was happy
with. And interestingly, being with the previous one, whom I wasn't happy
with, didn't put a damper on my social tendencies at all. (But I was younger
then too, so there's at least one confounding variable.)

Regardless, I suddenly notice there are large swathes of life that seem to be
there only to trick you into mating. (That is, the ones that aren't there to
trick you into giving someone money.)

(Some people use the one to accomplish the other.)

(And vice versa.)

But then you reach a point where you're immune to all that, and it's a relief.
You can finally _get on with it_ , whatever the "it" is in your life. We
flatter ourselves that life is complicated, important and purposeful, but
actually it's pretty simple and probably random. Life just wants us to mate &
raise kids, and then after that, it could give a shit what we do. (As long as
we keep out of the way of other people mating & raising kids, of course.) That
semen/those eggs are just your genes heading for the lifeboats of a sinking
ship. But that also means once you're freed from "life's plan for you," you
can stop giving a shit right back, and finally do whatever you want!

~~~
nyedrytdyf
this seems far too reductionist. friends can help us grow and become better,
happier, more fulfilled people at any age. to claim that 1 person is able to
fulfill this instead seems like a stretch to me. surely some diversity of
thought / conversation is helpful.

------
Lordarminius
When you're young the criteria for making friends include shared interests in
the opposite sex, academics, partying and so on. People are rarely
judgemental. Later in life a huge component of relationships is based on
comparison of status and material acquisitions.

------
throwaway2117
As another commenter posted, I wished someone had told me this when I was
younger.

I never had a lot of friends in high school. I was a nerd when and where being
a nerd was bad. I never really got the dynamic that mirrororing helps a lot
with this and that I contributed to this by unwittingly coming across as
aloof. What friends I had weren't... great. Frankly, after high school I never
saw them again and honestly don't feel like I was missing much.

What compounds this is I have severe myopia. Always have, always will. It's
not the kind of thing that surgery can fix. This meant, say, playing team
sports just wasn't possible. It's also a limiting factor in so many things.
Not being able to drive a massive handicap. It impacts the ability to even
watch sports so that's not something I ever developed an interest in.

I also have anxiety issues. Not major. Not "I can't leave the house" type
issues but... issues. In high school I never had to try so it wasn't an issue.
In college I did, although I didn't realize it at the time. But it kept me
from going to classes in part because I just didn't want to have to deal with
not being able to see/read the board from that distance.

So I was pretty much a no-show and ended up dropping out. This also meant that
I just didn't make a circle of friends in college like so many seem to.

There's been some interesting research done on people who appear trustworthy.
This is a hard thing to measure but it seems to hold almost universally true.
I think the study was about people who appear "untrustworthy" were more likely
to be given the death sentence out of a pool of people who were all later
exonerated with DNA evidence.

I feel like I'm one of those people that people just react negatively to. Even
if they don't I don't think it matters because I pretty much believe it to be
true. Combine that with some low-grade anxiety and you get a bad mix of trust
issues and keeping one's distance from people.

I only ever really had one serious relationship and it didn't work out in a
fairly gut-wrenching way that's stayed with me for years, in part from the
self-flagellation for the choices I made that contributed to that ending.

So here I am, years later in my 40s. I have acquaintances but not much in the
way of true friends. Honestly I can't even remember the last time I had a deep
conversation with somebody. I'm reminded of Kevin Spacey's character in
American Beauty when asked "how are you?" and he replied that it'd been a long
time since anyone had asked. That's how I feel.

How people form relationships mystifies me so unlike some whose friends fall
away but they still have their families, I don't even have that.

So here I am still wondering, how do people make friends?

~~~
scandox
How do people make friends?

Axiom: People want to have fun, relax, feel safe and be valued.

1\. Availability Many people have what they want in terms of love and
friendships. Do not focus on befriending them, it will likely peter out, with
the best will in the world. Do not aim to befriend some big extrovert: if they
want your friendship they will walk up to you and befriend you. You need to
find situations where people are likely to be looking to form friendships.
That means putting yourself out there and does take courage: meetups, clubs
(chess? books? guns!), volunteering, activism, hiking, community activities
etc...

2\. Humility Open yourself up to friendship with any kind of person. Remove
barriers: age, sex, race, religion, culture, politics, height,
weight...whatever it is, leave it behind. Stop being judgemental: you find
someone boring? Give them a chance. How exciting are you at first glance? It
may be nerves. Most people have significant depths. Every human being is an
amazing animal, full of potential. Accept that fact and you will be much more
open to every opportunity. Re-evaluate your acquaintances based on that too.

3\. Engagement Imagine you're someone else meeting yourself. How can you give
them one of those axiomatic things they're seeking? The easiest thing to start
with is make people feel valued. This is as simple as listening to what they
say and paying attention to what they do. This means turning your attention
away from what is happening in your own head. After a time, observe and
mention positive things about the other person. Nobody will reject a
compliment [1]. Patience is essential. Unless you're going to meet someone
several times, then forget it. You are very unlikely to befriend someone you
will only see once. That is why context matters. Accept that many encounters
won't turn into friendship: interact with multiple people over time. Never
reject a positive move towards you: an invitation, being included in a group,
someone sitting next to you. Accept all of these positively. Make people feel
safe: don't be pushy, clingy or discuss controversial or intimate topics
(that's for when you're friends). People want to relax: you're an intense
person (it appears to me)...but people don't know what's in your mind. Don't
start sharing troubles or telling people what you think of yourself. Keep it
vanilla and/or abstract - i.e. talk about topics or other people. They can
learn about your intense nature later like when they care.

4\. Grace I'm borrowing a religious term to describe moments in life when you
have an opportunity to help people or change the understanding between
yourself and another person. These are the moments that turn acquaintances
into friends. These are not usually heroic in scale! Watch out for small
opportunities to do something positive unasked for. Notice if an acquaintance
suddenly reveals something about themselves - your reaction may change the
nature of that relationship into a friendship.

You may have heard this kind of thing before. You may think it all sounds
superficial and like hard bloody work. Humble yourself to it, if you really
want friendship.

[1] Don't compliment people on their body, clothes or appearance until you
know them well.

------
shams93
I don't think it has to do with age I think it has to do with the end of the
40 hour work week, the always connected work culture doesn't leave much room
these days for people of any age to form old fashioned friendships outside of
work

------
z3t4
Who has time for friends ? All relations are about _spending time_ with
someone. You can get a good relations with _anyone_ by just spending time with
them. Most people are actually not that bad when you get to know them.

------
projektir
Because there are no good generic (read: not gyms) areas for repeatedly mixing
people at that age since you're no longer in any kind of educational
institution.

Also, children.

~~~
nugi
So, join a gym?

The childeren thing goes both ways. I know tons of people I wouldnt ever say
hello to due to events around children. Lots of bored loney parents standing
around while johnny picks grass in the outfield makes for a great way to meet
people.

------
davebryand
It's not. Choose to give unconditional love and choose to be lovable. You'll
have more friends than you know what to do with.

~~~
drukenemo
hummm this is no really true in my experience. Many people are takers and not
real givers.

------
heynowletsgo
Because love takes time, and money is time in this society. Takes a lot of
money to have friends, and most men are actually to poor to afford friends.
That's included in the price society pays for loving wealth first. You cannot
serve two masters. You can of course fake it, drinking buddies ect... it's
like most things in a money first group, the real thing is continually
cheapened until everyone looses interest and then we blame them for having too
high of standards.

------
trumbitta2
Bias: I actually made more friends in the last 10 years (I'm 40) than in the
first 30 years of my life.

------
kyo3
If it makes you guys feel better, I'm 25 and it still feels impossible to find
platonic friendliness.

------
kleer001
Why? Babies and hobbies, drug abuse and work addiction. That's about most of
it.

------
Traubenfuchs
I met most friends I made besides/after college on gay dating apps.

------
ausjke
life just got too busy and you no longer stay together for friendship long
enough(unlike you have a few years for that during childhood, school, college,
etc).

------
drewmol
TLDR: pessimism, ego and undisclosed performance rankings

------
feralmoan
So in conclusion, friendships happen via function or temporal need, and that's
a truth for a lot of people. Thanks for lowering the bar, game theory.

------
cdelsolar
Does anyone want to be my friend?

------
marincounty
I had this one co-worker call me every day.

He would just yack, and yack. Some times I would put the phone down, and come
back in 5 minutes, and he would still be talking. He was eccentric, had a
horrid childhood, but genuinely nice.

I thought he was nuts, but nice.

We ended up becoming best friends. They used to call us the odd couple.

I ended up trusted him more than family. We just included each other in
everthing without even thinking. My girlfriends were put off by him at first,
but he would wear them down talking, and before I knew it, he was calling them
daily. And when he missed a day, they would ask me if he is ok. He never
crossed the line either.

He died a few years ago, but his friendship technique was something I thought
was brilliant. Just wear the person down.

I can pass this along, I once heard a therapist say something like, make
friends with people your own age, or younger. Her rationale was they will die
before you.

When I was in my tewenties, I just didn't have much in common with my peers. I
wasen't more mature, but didn't like my generation that much. My friends were
just older. I really loved all of them.

If I had a do-over, I might have really tried to make friends with people my
own age. I'm all alone now. It does suck.

Anyways, my eccentric friend knew how to make friends. I haven't tried his
technique, but might?

~~~
lttlrck
A therapist said make friends your own age or younger because they’ll die
before you? Huh? Am I have a brain fart?

------
jk2323
I think you can make very good friends at any age. But

1\. I have very old friends with a lot of, let's call it "weaknesses". Our
friendship is "grandfathered" but if I meet new people I don't tolerate such
things anymore.

2\. Sometimes you meet an interesting person and would like to hang out more
but things don't develop. This person never has time etc. You can also
maintain only a limited amount of friends.

------
megaman22
Looking at the small town where I grew up, people in the generations before
mine had the luxury that the friends they made in kindergarten pretty much
lived next door to them their entire lives. They went to school together, they
worked together, they saw each other all the time around town, they played
softball and pickup basketball together on town teams, they married into large
extended families, and their kids went to school together. For my generation,
that's broken down, ultimately because that local economy has faltered and
died. We had to go out into the world and make our way in a mass of strangers,
without that deeply ingrained commonality to fall back on. And that's hard.

------
Pica_soO
My assumption is that with 30 age really becomes visible. It was at this age,
people- the same sort of people i would hang around with and goof with-
started to refer to me as "Mr." \- as if by having the first grey hair- you
somehow become some authoritative figure to be afraid of.

Which is ridiculosis - but you cant change what people think when they see you
for the first time.

~~~
nugi
Oh, but you can.

I find how I dress and hold myself signals "age" more than my actual aging. If
you act tired and old, no matter your age, it is a signal.

We also have hair dye, dentures, plastic surgery for those that care. And many
do.

Youth is a verb.

------
xstartup
By this time people have suffered a lot. Faced economic hardships. I used to
make friends regardless of their socioeconomic background but the ones who
were poor, always made me feel as if they are poor because of people like me.
I am rich. They could justify every worse thing they did to me, just because
they thought I had it easy and they had to struggle much. I never got to
understand how these guys can justify scamming me. Couple of them screwed me
over lots of money and made my life hell but nvm I recovered and still
thriving.

~~~
gonzo41
You met shitty poor people. Being poor doesn't make you screw people over, but
if you're rich, you may not have notice or appreciated how your wealth was
interacting with these people.

Great example was in the show Friends. There was this episode when Febie? and
Joey were broke as f--k and they got all bent out a joint having to be in
situations with the others where they were spending more money than they could
afford just to keep up appearances. And then they got even more hurt because
of then the others pivoted to pity and charity.

Anyway, you're still thriving to it's all a wash in the end.

~~~
xstartup
I've have helped lots of people and I am a firm believer of "If you can help,
you must". Heck, my wife was also poor but she is the best person I've ever
met. She is the only one who can set millions of dollars on fire for me. But
over the time, my inability to act indifferent to people's struggle has burned
me over a countless number of times. Examples include places where I gave out
few hundred thousands in help and got scammed out of millions. These days I am
living under the rock so that I do not see others' struggle and jump there to
help.

~~~
nugi
"my wife was also poor but she is the best person I've ever met"

You still make it sound like you see it as some black mark against someone. I
doubt you meant to come off that way, but you really did.

Imagine if I said: "Xstartup is (gay,black,jew), but is a really great person"

Sounds bad huh?

------
hungerstrike
Who wants friends over 30? I like to make friends with young people.

In all seriousness, at 42 I really do prefer to hang out with 20-somethings
because they’re fun.

~~~
groby_b
Oh dear God, no. 20-somethings... have a bit of living to do before they're
interesting.

Don't get me wrong, being 20 is awesome. When you're 20. Because you suddenly
have so much freedom. But when you're in your 40s, that's not that exciting
any more. Well, at least it isn't for me. I've _done_ the crazy things, I know
how they end. I like friends with a bit more perspective.

~~~
amyjess
Honestly, what I want is someone like me to muddle through life with.

And simply put, most people over 30 aren't going to be "like me" in the least.
Most of them are family-minded, career-minded, or both. I'm just not going to
have much in common with someone who's married and either has kids or is
trying to have kids, nor am I going to have anything in common with someone
who's trying to aggressively climb the career ladder.

The people I have the most in common with and see as peers are by and large
slackers in their 20s, not people my age. I'm 33, and the disconnect between
me and most people my age is really jarring... I see most people my age as
having more in common with my parents than me (this was especially noticeable
the last time I saw my cousins in person... they're only a few years older
than me, but they act just like my mom did at their age, while I'm still a big
kid... I really feel like most people of my generation are effectively of an
older generation).

------
sametmax
Hint: it's not. It's just that it's not your priority and that your are picky.

------
PricelessValue
Because you aren't a kid anymore? You are older and have a wife, children,
nephews, nieces and responsibilities? Not only that you have friends from
childhood, high school, college, work, etc and there are only 24 hours in a
day?

It's called growing up. Are we supposed to stay naive children forever without
responsibilities forever?

