
Justin Trudeau explains why Canada really ‘gets’ AI and smart cities - lordr
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/02/justin-trudeau-explains-why-canada-really-gets-ai-and-smart-cities/?ncid=rss
======
rdtsc
> Canada also has notably different strategies when it comes to encouraging an
> atmosphere of innovation, and that includes specific policies around
> immigration.

Then where is it's Silicon Valley? Why are Canadian software companies paying
less than US ones. Why are new CS graduates moving to US? The immigration
policy wasn't implemented yesterday. After all the decades of this immigration
it should have had the same kind of growth as US.

Now in reality immigration probably has less to do with it and it's just used
for fluff and PR. There are other incentives and constraints that are not
aligned quite right.

Usually when a city or other government officials explicitly say "we're the
next innovation center" or "here we will build the next Silicon Valley",
chances are it won't happen. A few incentives or some token "city block
transformation projects" are not enough. It might require a new tax or
regulatory structure, but that's also hard to stomach politically and would
make the administration less popular.

~~~
dopamean
I'm no chemical engineer but I believe silicon and silicone are two different
things.

~~~
rdtsc
Of course they are, thanks for the correction!

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aaron-lebo
Don't see much insight here. Canadians love immigrants (apparently more than
the US, but do numbers really play that out)? Canadians love to travel, too,
apparently.

It's a lot of vague rah-rah PR between Trudeau (who is the master of that) and
a major CEO.

~~~
throwaway613834
I'm worried Canada is just going to go the same direction the US went w.r.t.
immigrants, just with a delay.

Edit: Seems people are misinterpreting what I wrote. I'm referring to the
public's view of immigration, not immigration or immigration policy itself.

~~~
sumitgt
One important thing that Canada gets right is the process to get PR. If you
are well qualified, its dead simple to get a Green Card.

As opposed to the US where if you are born from India, you have to wait 15-20
years for a Green Card due to country quotas.

~~~
ng12
What is "wrong" about that? It's a simple reality: there are way more people
desiring to immigrate to the USA than the government thinks it can handle.

~~~
c2h5oh
Per country of origin cap makes little sense.

Canadian immigration process assigns points for various qualities and
qualifications legislature deemed desired and every couple of weeks x top
scoring applicants get an immigration visa (pr).

~~~
ng12
The US does have a system like that. The EB Visa is a permanent visa for high-
skilled workers: EB1 is the highest-priority for advanced degree holders, EB3
is lower-priority for generally skilled workers.

H1-B is designed to just be a pool to temporarily fill labor shortages in the
US. It's not intended to be the path for PR hence why it's admittedly
arbitrary.

~~~
kartD
> H1-B is designed to just be a pool to temporarily fill labor shortages in
> the US. It's not intended to be the path for PR hence why it's admittedly
> arbitrary.

I think that is incorrect. It is expected for F-1 students to move to an H1-B
(which allows intent to immigrate) and then move to PR (usually via an EB)

~~~
ng12
It's not set up that way. It's only easier by virtue of already living in the
US and having qualifications gained in the US system.

------
Mikeb85
Justin Trudeau talks a lot, so far very little of what he has said has turned
into anything concrete. For most of his term he's been more of a cheerleader
than a leader. Keep in mind parliament still has to make the laws, approve
grants, etc..., and his political party is still run by bankers. They're more
centrist than 'liberal' despite the name.

~~~
bparsons
The feds are pouring tons of money into scientific research and
commercialization. In 2016 it was this: [http://u15.ca/what-we-are-
saying/budget-2016-strong-commitme...](http://u15.ca/what-we-are-
saying/budget-2016-strong-commitment-scientific-research)

In 2018, it will be the supercluster initiative, which is a well thought out
strategy for commercializing the talent coming out of Canadian universities.

~~~
robotresearcher
For those not actively tracking Canadian funding programs, the supercluster
shortlisted proposals are:

[https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-
develop...](https://www.canada.ca/en/innovation-science-economic-
development/news/2017/10/innovation_superclustersinitiativeshortlistofapplicants.html)

------
smsm42
I don't get what this means. "AI" is a vague moniker attributed to a wide area
of tangentially related technologies. It's like saying "Canada really gets
relational databases". Well, good for you, everybody kinda gets it, but what
this has to do with "Canada"?

Then: it’s not up to the Canadian government to “pick winners,” but that
instead that it is their role to say that they’re going to “invest in quantum,
we’re gonna invest in AI

Isn't that literally the definition of "picking winners" \- putting money in
some specific handpicked areas? I mean, if you've got the argument for
government investment in technology, fine, we can listen to it - but you can't
in the same sentence deny it and praise it, it's insane!

TLDR: politicians duckspeak about being pro everything good and contra
everything bad, informational content: zero.

------
corpMaverick
Is Justin trying to send a message to Jeff Bezos ? I do feel that Toronto is
well positioned to be HQ2. immigration policies, general culture and the
University of Waterloo being important points is favor.

~~~
l4yao
The logistics for having a Canadian HQ is significant. The Canadian talent
pool size can't compete with the US. Getting so many American employees visas
would be a challenge. With NAFTA renegotiation, the TN visa's future seems
uncertain.

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frabbit
This is the real meat of the story: City of Toronto is willing to give cheap
land and subsidies as a lure in the hope that some tech money will dribble
back into CAN economy. This is a much better article:

[http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/metropolis/2017/10/...](http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/metropolis/2017/10/sidewalk_labs_quayside_development_in_toronto_is_google_s_first_shot_at.html)

~~~
bparsons
It is a good deal for Toronto. The land has sat undeveloped and contaminated
for decades. You need someone with extremely deep pockets to come along and
develop that space, even if it does mean giving up something in return.

~~~
frabbit
Sure. But the idea that it's happening in Toronto because Canadians are
somehow more into the idea of AI than other places is a bit silly. Hence, my
argument that this is a more information rich article.

------
dmix
> “economic imbalance of those who own the robots and those who are displaced
> by them.”

I know this is a serious risk in the future we should be well prepared for. I
just hope the federal government doesn't try to step in to control it before
we really understand what it's going to look like in practice and what the
tangible costs are.

But having such a young leader is refreshing, even if I don't align with him
on most subjects. The negative side effects of every global leader being in
the 65-80s yr old range can't be understated. At least in terms of dealing
with the future.

> he believes it’s not up to the Canadian government to “pick winners,” but
> that instead that it is their role to say that they’re going to “invest in
> quantum, we’re gonna invest in AI, we’re going to invest in robotics, we’re
> going to invest in high-value, innovative, creative, groundbreaking areas”

I personally don't see how these two things will be disconnected. At least in
terms of how the various levels of Canadian government has invested in
'innovation' in the past. Which has often resulted in selective financing
often to established firms well past the innovation phase, engaging in
businesses better suited for private organizations (VC, office real estate,
etc), and other direct investments.

That said Canada has been far better than the US in terms of supporting
immigration of skilled workers and startup founders (my experience trying to
immigrate to the US without a 4yr 'advanced' degree was nightmarish, despite
8yrs of experience, a solid job offer, and a US-based immigration lawyer). As
well as a lower corporate tax than the US and fewer regulatory processes for
wealthy angel investors.

I really hope 'investing' is being translated to "making the lives easier" of
the entrepreneurs, developers, and investors. Such as making investing private
capital into Canada, from the US (and elsewhere) less risky than other
countries. Supporting contractors, not just fulltime employees. Helping small
companies navigate complex regulatory systems without crippling their ability
to compete with larger firms with teams of lawyers. Generating smart
regulatory frameworks based in technical understanding of the problem, and not
sensational news coverage and "something must be done" reactionary motivation.

Aka getting out of the way of companies doing the hard work and making the
process smoother for them. Instead of pretending they can create pretend
copies of successful Silicon Valley organization within a public structure by
throwing money and buzzwords like 'innovation' at it.

------
melonhack
Full video interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9X_-
ARHXEI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9X_-ARHXEI)

------
jpm_sd
Three years from now, Google will have gotten distracted by other shiny
things, and the "smart" features of this neighborhood will abruptly stop
working when their backend services are shut down.

------
yannickt
Are there that many Canadian companies (as opposed to US companies with
satellite offices in Canada) capitalizing on AI? If not, does Canada really
"get it?"

~~~
jdross
Geoff Hinton is from University of Toronto. Waterloo is great source of talent
as well

~~~
malandrew
U-Waterloo is its own special thing. It's hardly reflective of the rest of
Canada. More universities need to take the U-Waterloo approach of work
experience interspersed with academic study.

~~~
UseStrict
They do? A large number of Canadian universities offer co-op, either optional
or integrated into their programs.

------
rublev
>“I just think Canadians realize better than most that there is an opportunity
here”

We have no atmosphere of innovation because our salaries are garbage compared
to the US. This is the problem, every single time. Most of my Canadian
graduate friends work for US companies, some remotely. We literally do not
have economic reasons to stay here. No amount of lip service will ever
transform 100k into 300k.

>“consequences of AI, the consequences of automation,” and the “economic
imbalance of those who own the robots and those who are displaced by them.”

Wasn't this shown to be a meme? That automation has already been happening
very slowly, it's not going to be some sudden iRobot level change. Example: as
a web dev now you only need one full stack guy to launch a production app,
does the job of the designers, devops, frontend etc through various tooling
that helped him automate processes that other developers would have done in
the past.

>Canadians have a tendency to travel, Trudeau said, and that results in a
global outlook on how cities work and their different approaches to things
like traffic and how people live in urban environments.

More like I can make 3x for the same job here.

I refer to my previous comment with respect to the waterfront, when will this
tech bullshit be over?
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15550745](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15550745)

This all reads like crap propaganda without saying anything, just some nice
meaningless buzzwords. Actually it's even worse, looks like a paid for
advertisement by Google and they have Trudeau in their pockets using him as an
advertising puppet.

Trudeau is a prime minister who was born into riches and surrounded by royal
families since birth. This guy hasn't the faintest idea what he's talking
about with anything related to real life much less tech or fucking AI.

Nobody wants a 'smart city'. It'll just be another data mining project except
now they will literally be optimizing your _entire_ life for their profits.
You can't meme a city into existence like all those cute little renders.
Cities/villages have to rise up organically and then be tamed and incentivized
to grow, not built with extreme robotic precision using data from the ground
up. At best it's going to be some hip little place with crap corporate chain
bars for working professionals just like it currently is cause that makes the
most money, anything else is a pipe dream. Completely sterile and devoid of
life, like all these projects turn out to be.

>If the initiative proceeds, it would include at least 3.3 million square feet
of residential, office and commercial space, including a new headquarters for
Google Canada, in a district that would be a test bed for the combination of
technology and urbanism. [0]

[0] - [https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/google-
sidewal...](https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/google-sidewalk-
toronto-waterfront/article36612387/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&)

~~~
CupOfJava
> We have no atmosphere of innovation because our salaries are garbage
> compared to the US. This is the problem, every single time. Most of my
> Canadian graduate friends work for US companies, some remotely. We literally
> do not have economic reasons to stay here. No amount of lip service will
> ever transform 100k into 300k.

You can make 3x there? Why are you still here then? Instead of making up
numbers, here's a more balanced opinion on salary differences between Waterloo
and Silicon Valley: [https://medium.com/@srlake/debunking-the-myth-of-higher-
pay-...](https://medium.com/@srlake/debunking-the-myth-of-higher-pay-in-
silicon-valley-87828cbf6698)

~~~
ng12
That piece is absurdly biased. There's no comparing living in San Francisco to
Waterloo. The COL difference isn't just disappearing -- you're paying to live
in lively metropolitan city.

Also I think it's funny when people position "number of startups" as an
important factor. Just because your city has 30 five-man startups crammed into
a coworking incubator doesn't mean I want to work for any of them.

------
yters
If ML can be fooled so easily, what happens when the entire city or all our
transportation is run by ML? My hypothesis: bad things happen.

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almonj
It makes sense that he would shill for 'smart' cities because that implies
expanding the 24/7 surveillance state.

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nilved
Anyone who agrees with this hasn't lived in Canada.

