
Android Oreo - axg
https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/
======
dcomp
The most interesting part is the way they are planning on tackling
fragmentation in O onwards with Project Treble [0]

If your device ships with O it should be running an immutable semantically
versioned HAL. In essence you should be able to be able to flash AOSP on every
new device. No matter what the vendor does.

Edit: I can see it now, in the technical specs of each device you will see a
list of HAL Versions. The newer your HAL the longer you can expect support
from AOSP if not your vendor.

[0]
[http://androidbackstage.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/episode-75-pr...](http://androidbackstage.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/episode-75-project-
treble-for-hal-of-it.html)

~~~
sitepodmatt
Android have been promising to finally tackle fragmentation in every release
since KitKat. It seems people have a very short memory.

~~~
eloisant
I think they did a great job at reducing fragmentation by pulling out most of
the OS into upgradable components.

All applications are upgradable, even Play Services are upgradable, and
developers get the support library to get all the new things to all devices.

So I believe they did a great job at reducing fragmentation in the sense that
it no longer really matters what version you have, you still get all the
newest stuff. Just look at every iOS version announcement: 3/4 of the new
features are in the apps: iMessages, maps, home screen...

~~~
mariusmg
> by pulling out most of the OS into upgradable components.

That's not true (the most of the OS part). They untangled their own stuff
(Play Store, Google services and so on) and can update those as they see fit.
The OS stuff is still monolithic. Most of serious security issues still
require full OS updates. Also supporting a new major version of Android
runtime still require a full OS update.

~~~
tomkarlo
Most security issues are handled by security updates, which don't require a
letter update. They're issued as patches, so OEMs can issue them for an older
device without updating it to a new release.
[https://www.android.com/security-center/monthly-security-
upd...](https://www.android.com/security-center/monthly-security-updates/)

~~~
pjmlp
They can, but most don't.

~~~
tomkarlo
Most of the major OEMs do. The security update rate for upper tier phones runs
about 75% within 3 months these days.

Anyway, I was responding to the comment "Most of serious security issues still
require full OS updates." This is demonstrably inaccurate since the security
patches do not require a full OS update.

------
klondike_
Project Treble is the most important thing in this release

>The biggest change to the foundations of Android to date: a modular
architecture that makes it easier and faster for hardware makers to deliver
Android updates.

With any luck, this will end the huge security/update problem Android has.
Right now an update is dependent on the chip manufacturer's drivers, then the
OEM adding them to the ROM with their custom "improvements", and finally the
carrier pushing the update to devices. Right now it just takes one break in
the link and a device goes without updates, which is a security disaster. If
Google can push updates from the Play Store (presumably the end goal of
Treble), none of this will be a problem.

~~~
pjmlp
As I commented in another HN story, I don't believe OEMs and telecom operators
will release updates, if Google doesn't force them to do so.

They already admitted on the ADB Podcast that they don't want to remove the
ability for OEMs and mobile operators to customize their forks of Android.

We will still be forced to buy new devices even if they are VTS certified.

~~~
dcomp
> VTS certified

If it passed VTS it should be able to run AOSP. The new CTS will be an AOSP
System image running their VTS passing "drivers".

Even if your vendor doesn't push any updates. At least you should be able to
run a number of newer versions of AOSP as long as Android doesn't deprecate
those VTS drivers.

~~~
fulafel
How in practice would you go about putting AOSP on a device without the vendor
cooperating? Is there some kind of secure boot system that always accepts AOSP
images?

~~~
jiggunjer
I think the idea is that they cooperate once, and then Google promises to stop
breaking the HAL interface for x years at the cost of increasing their
development difficulty.

------
rdsubhas
Not saying that everything else is bad, but one thing that strikes me is how
much they have run out of interesting things now that they had to use
fillers[1] like:

 _Tooltips_

 _Support for tooltips (small popup windows with descriptive text) for views
and menu items._

Normally, this would be relegated to a git changelog in the support library.
But this is on the global marketing landing page.

I like to imagine a fictional internal mail thread going like this:

> _Folks! please, give us something, anything, to put on the landing page!_

> Someone replies _duh, maybe tooltips_

> _What 's a tooltip?_

> _uhh, small popup windows with descriptive text_

> _What 's a popup window?_

> _uhh..._

> _Nevermind, its on!_

Obligatory /s and yeah its Google, but seriously I can't imagine any other
circumstances on how this specific copy, which tries to explain what a
"tooltip" is by using the words "popup window", "view" and "menu item", came
up.

This could be a good sign though, of the maturity of the platform (and harder
to feel left out if you didn't upgrade).

1:
[https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/](https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/)

~~~
flukus
How do tooltips even work on a touch based OS?

~~~
veeti
Chrome OS has first class support for Android apps nowadays. You can use a
keyboard and mouse through USB OTG or Bluetooth on an Android as well.

~~~
digi_owl
Something that has been with Android since 3.0.

Really wish i could find an android tablet with a full size A port these days
that didn't run a ancient version...

------
dcow
Am I the only one who's really disappointed by the platform's shift in its
stance on background execution? I was originally drawn to Android because it
wasn't iOS. I wanted to develop on a platform where I _could_ run a service in
the background if the user wanted that. Apps that were bad stewards of battery
life and phone resources were supposed to be scrutinized by users and removed
if they were too poor. You _can_ be a good steward, it's just harder
especially when your monolithic app is an uninformed port of some legacy iOS
code.

By issuing a hard restriction on background usage Google has brilliantly
improved battery life for the masses while condonig the same lazy
architectural patterns of the past, locked people into Firebase Cloud
Messaging--a Google service not part of the AOSP, and potentially stunted
Android adoption in domains outside of mobile. It's the turning of an era for
Android, and my interests have moved elsewhere (from an app platform
perspective, embedded Android is still vialble since everything you ship runs
as a system app with no restrictions).

~~~
klondike_
That might be good for power users, but for the average user it's a disaster.
How many people actually read the app permissions when they install something?
Most apps request background privileges and if you don't like that your only
other option (until recently) was to not install the app.

Users blame Android when Facebook and other popular apps started eating all
their battery by running in the background. Google's only choice was to
aggressively punish these apps.

All developers think their app is the most important thing running on the
user's system, and that is how we get into situations like this.

~~~
dcow
Yeah I understand why we're in this situation. I'm lamenting the fact that
it's reached this point. Maybe I'm a minority but I don't think my apps are
the hottest shit around and I try to make an effort to be a good steward. IMO
engineers should push back when product asks for things that clobber system
resources. However the few bad examples should not ruin it for the use cases
where you really do need something running in the background. I also partly
blame these DI solutions that encourage devs to stuff everything in a graph
they do or don't realize is tied to their application instance. I've seen this
multiple times in production apps.

~~~
nomel
What are these apps doing in the background? I've always assumed they're
collecting/streaming device and user metrics. Running apps, location, WiFi
SSIDs, etc. If that's the case, then a reduction in data collection could mean
a reduction in metrics/income.

~~~
digi_owl
Its a mix of things.

Android by design leave apps in the background when you exit them via the home
button.

Before 4.0 introduced the switcher button, and the accompanying swipe action
to fully close an app, the only way to properly exit an app was to hit the
back button until you exited back to the home screen.

This because the initial design of Android was less about apps and more about
"activities". These were the individual parts of an app, and what enables that
one app launch parts of another app to complete a user action (the most
prominent likely being the share menu).

This was presented back in the day as a metaphorical stack of cards. As more
user actions where taken that opened more activities, those activities would
be added on top of the stack. Then as the user hit the back button he would be
flipping backwards in that stack. To enable all this, Android keep apps around
in RAM until it runs low, and then start to close down the oldest ones (first
by waking them up and telling them to exit gracefully, then forcing them).

Thus often an app will sit in the background even though it is doing nothing.

One good way to observe this (until recently) was to run something like
OSMonitor and look at CPU time of various app processes. Often they would be
present but basically show no indication of actually doing anything. They
would just sit there idle, waiting for user actions.

------
amrrs
Has Google ever released a report on how much time it takes an average
flagship device to get the latest android version? Even if you've paid $$$$ in
getting Samsung Galaxy S8 just recently, you're not going to get Android O
tomorrow morning. But that's definitely the case with iOS. That makes a huge
difference in the world where Software updates play a huge role in performance
and functionality than hardware update (read. Image processing vs 13Mp to 16Mp
camera) Google hasn't been successful in that.

~~~
izacus
Just like you have to buy an Apple phone to get Apple updates immediately, you
need to buy a Google phone to get Google updates immediately. Pixel and Nexus
rollout is starting nowish (and beta participants are already getting the
OTAs).

This is really not a secret at this time anymore and should be taken into
account when you succumb to Samsung marketing.

Everybody else will be probably 4-6 months late.

~~~
putlake
But Apple supports iPhones for 4-5 years. Google has said they will only
support their flagship Nexus and Pixel phones for no more than 2 years. For a
$700 device this is unacceptable.

~~~
victorhooi
Apart from what Ironlink said below, there's also the fact that Google and
Apple support mean different things.

For Apple, updates often mean some subset of the full operating system
updates, or a crippled version.

Whereas Google updates tend to be all of nothing - meaning if your phone does
get the update, it gets _all_ of the features of that particular version.

This seems to have changed somewhat with moving a lot of the stuff to Play
Service (and now obviously with Project Treble), so you get the best of both
world (in theory)...

~~~
merb
> For Apple, updates often mean some subset of the full operating system
> updates, or a crippled version. Whereas Google updates tend to be all of
> nothing - meaning if your phone does get the update, it gets all of the
> features of that particular version.

Eh? Aren't you swapping something here? On Apple you get OS updates with
nearly all features for at least 5 years, of course they can't create a NFC
device into a phone that doesn't ship with one... I would love to see _any_
Android phone with support for 5 years, that does not come from google
directly. it would be a no brainer if something exists in the 200-300€ range.
because I don't care which phone I have, it just needs to be long liveable and
have a price below 400€. currently I use used iPhones, which I get relativly
cheap.

~~~
drusepth
I think he's pointing out a vital difference in update paradigms here. Taking
an example of an update that added NFC processing to a phone, iOS devices
would get the update even if NFC were the only feature in it and their device
didn't support NFC (and that feature would just be turned off or "crippled").
Android users, on the other hand, just wouldn't get the update at all.

In reality, what we see is a bunch of features bundled together into a single
update. If one of those features is NFC functionality, iOS phones will get
that update minus NFC (and any other features their hardware doesn't support),
while Android phones often just won't get that update at all if any of the
features (e.g. NFC) aren't supported by the hardware. This also explains, in a
basic sense, why iOS devices get updates for longer periods, while Android
devices "fall off" or aren't promised updates for as long.

There's, of course, pros and cons to each of these update strategies, as many
times it becomes "mandatory" to update (for security updates, to get
maintenance/support, to get some other necessary features, etc), and iOS-style
updates have historically been too much for device memory/processing/resources
to handle (effectively making the phone so slow you're required to buy a new
one[1]), while Androids not getting the update at all also requires you to buy
a new one.

Neither approach is foolproof, but I think that's what he's referring to by
"Google updates tend to be all or nothing" and "Apple updates often mean some
subset of the full operating system updates, or a crippled version".

[1] There's enough resources out there that no single one tells the whole
story, but there's plenty at
[https://www.google.me/search?q=ios+update+made+phone+unusabl...](https://www.google.me/search?q=ios+update+made+phone+unusable)
and at least one previous class action lawsuit over iOS updates rendering
phones "inoperably slow".

------
jampa
I know this is a non-issue for many, but those emojis look really dated. Every
update they get harder and harder to read in small form. One of the things I
observe, mainly on Instagram Stories is only people with iOS post with emojis
attached, I never see Android ones. Too bad there is no way to install custom
emojis in any system (without rooting/registry tweaking), like we do with
fonts.

~~~
saghm
Personally, I find it kind of ridiculous that new emojis are considered
flagship features of mobile OS updates. I'd think that it would be possible to
decouple emoji updates from kernel/security updates, so I imagine that
Android/iOS tie them to the OS updates solely as a way to motivate non-
technical users to update.

~~~
cakedoggie
Mobile OS's aren't just for grumpy old people.

~~~
saghm
I'm younger than emojis themselves, to be perfectly honest, but I hardly think
that an (incorrect) ad hominem makes my point any less valid.

~~~
supercoder
Emojis have no relevance to how technical someone is

~~~
saghm
Exactly, they have appeal to people independent of technical skill; hence my
hypothesis that they make sure to emphasize the things that are more likely to
resonate with larger groups of people (like emoji) rather than things like
Project Treble or a "native C/C++ API for high-performance audio", even if the
former really have little to due with the OS itself.

If we're going down that route, it's also worth noting that "old people" such
as GP referred to also can like emoji; my parents and grandparents enjoy using
emoji.

------
koolba
Does Google pay these candy companies to use the name or do they pay Google?

There's obviously _some_ contractual relationship but I can't figure out who's
on which end of it.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Would they need to pay them? Cookies and mobile phones are completely
different lines of business, right?

Though the name is a direct reference to the sweet, so that maybe makes it
more complicated.

~~~
zerocrates
Oreo's probably a "famous mark" and therefore qualifies for dilution
protection, and this would be pretty in line with what "dilution by blurring"
is considered to be. Not that it would come to anything, but there is
something there.

They made a deal with Nestle/Hershey for KitKat, so I'm sure they did here as
well.

------
ghughes
The awful scroll hijacking implementation on this page really distracts from
the content.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Yeah I tried scrolling down to see if it had any information regarding how or
when this update would be released to their own phones and the scroll was just
all over the place.

I really wish everyone would stop hijacking scrolling.

~~~
zamalek
Enroll in the beta to get the release version (on Pixel).

~~~
BinaryIdiot
Thanks; it took way too long to figure out this was the path (maybe the
release version is rolling out soon? I see zero indication anywhere).

------
0x00000000
Android has really been annoying me lately. Maybe I didn't care before but now
that I can't root my phone I am forced to deal with it.

Still can't disable or customize to stupid "share" menu that puts you one
click away from accidentally sending something to a stranger you contacted
once on sms or facebook messenger or email.

Still can't revoke certain permissions from apps (like vibration). There is
zero reason why my browser should need to ever vibrate or use the
accelerometer/gyro.

Still no good system wide ad blocking solution. (not likely, but one of the
biggest things I miss from having a rooted phone)

How about those superpowers, Google? I have been an Android user since 2010
but I am quite sure my next phone will be an iPhone (with a headphone jack).

~~~
kllrnohj
So you're upset about not having enough niche power-user knobs, so you're
going to a device that has basically zero power-user knobs? How does that make
any sense? Why not just flash an AOSP-based ROM that does what you want, which
Google officially supports for their devices?

~~~
VeejayRampay
Exactly. I need to customize, so I'll go to Apple, the most user-infantilizing
software company on the face of the planet, world-renowned for their repeated
refusal to let users tweak the user experience of their $1000 phones on the
grounds that some people in a board room in Cupertino know what's best for you
better than you do.

~~~
Geee
They usually know better. I've been iPhone user for 6 years and I've never
wanted to customize something. Android, on the other hand, would need a
complete customization, redesign and rewrite which I don't have time to do.

------
wyldfire
> Android Oreo helps minimize background activity in the apps you use least,
> it's the super power you can't even see.

I'm looking forward to this. It seemed to me in the switch from iOS to Android
that the battery life definitely suffered. I wish the Samsung Galaxy's "ultra
power saver mode" was available in more devices. The "battery saver mode" in
my current Android phone is decent but doesn't seem as effective.

> Integrated printing support

> Compatible with all Mopria-certified printers, which make up 97% of printers
> sold worldwide.

Gee, I've never heard of "Mopria" but this sounds interesting.

~~~
taurath
>Gee, I've never heard of "Mopria" but this sounds interesting.

97% of printers sold now - the initiative happened in 2014, and I assume that
it took manufacturers a few years to ramp. So probably don't expect it to work
with your 5 year old all-in-one.

~~~
metalliqaz
If it supports prior services like Google cloud print, perhaps even
uncertified printers could work

~~~
kllrnohj
Cloud print has been supported since KitKat, you just need to install the
driver (sorry, "print plugin"):
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.cloudprint)

~~~
metalliqaz
Yeah, I meant the printer, not the phone/tablet.

------
Waterluvian
All I want is for my stupid phone to stop annoying me with new features I
don't want. Google just now suggested with a notification that I should ask
its voice thing a question and try it out.

Every time I think I've blocked every $_#&#- thing that annoys me, more show
up. As of a week ago I now get these Throw notifications that cannot be
dismissed or blocked.

I also despise apps that insist on being updated and disallow being
uninstalled.

These itches are so bad now that I'm pretty disenchanted with Android
altogether.

I want a no nonsense phone that literally does nothing out of the box except
the app store and make phone calls.

~~~
gregw134
Give me a phone like you describe that also doesn't track you and I'm sold.

~~~
muninn_
It's called an iPhone:
[https://www.apple.com/iphone/](https://www.apple.com/iphone/)

~~~
Waterluvian
Can I uninstall all the apple apps be that come with it?

~~~
jshelly
Most except safari

~~~
jcoder
And you can kill that under "restrictions" if you want to...

------
sarnowski
Wondering if the following feature is enabled by default:

"Wi-Fi Assistant

Auto-connects you to high quality open WiFi and secures your connection with a
VPN back to Google."

I _really_ do not want to tunnel my _whole_ traffic through Google's servers.

~~~
kevincox
I don't know if it is on by default but if enabled it will connect to "High
Quality" open networks. If it does this it connects the VPN.

So the VPN is "required" by this feature but you can turn it off globally, or
manually connect to networks where you don't want to use the VPN.

~~~
nomel
Doesn't this violate the computer fraud and abuse act, for unauthorized
accessing to a networks without permission? More specifically, piggybacking
[1]?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_piggybacking)

------
Asdfbla
I know programming within the constraints of mobile devices isn't easy and I
want to take nothing away from the release, but when you are still used to
Desktop computing it's kind of funny to see how seemingly trivial nice to have
features like picture-in-picture or notification dots get all hyped up in the
press release.

~~~
ehsankia
Does desktop have good PIP? It obviously matters much less when you have
multiple monitor, but I'd love to see OS level PIP support on desktop. Aka,
have a video "always on top" in the corner that I can move around and resize
while browsing the web, all on the same monitor. Some programs have "always on
top" support but there's nothing OS level.

~~~
JetSpiegel
Window Managers like KDE and Gnome have workspaces and window pinning (shown
as "Show on all workspaces") for decades.

Windows 3.1 was able to have two windows side by side before Android even
existed.

------
fenwick67
"new emoji" is an OS-level feature now. Welcome to 2017.

~~~
lotyrin
Well, there was a lot of distaste for the previous style, it's a pretty
notable difference to users. (For the record, I liked the original "blobs" and
will miss them.)

~~~
ehsankia
I'm fairly sure anyone who has actually had a proper look at the new emojis
much prefers the old ones. And I'm not talking just about the blobs (which
were only a small fraction of the emojis), but rather the overall style with
the gradient and border, and the drawing for the animal emojis too.

------
hughes
Really sad about the loss of the blob emojis. Will probably have to root my
phone to use a third party emoji switcher app to preserve them.

~~~
eitally
And it's not that the new emojis are all necessarily bad. My issue is
confusion over what the recipient will see when I select one of the new
emojis. I'm still not 100% clear on the emoji set mapping between OEMs/OSes.
:-/

~~~
euyyn
Isn't that one of the points of the new emojis, though? That unlike the
previous ones, they're compatible with what other systems use.

~~~
JetSpiegel
If emoji are in Unicode, why can't I choose how to represent then? Isn't that
the job of the font?

If you want total control over what the recipient sees, send an image.

It would be like if a webpage requested Helvetica and you are using Linux the
text simply wouldn't render.

~~~
euyyn
> If you want total control over what the recipient sees, send an image.

Is this for real? You rather people have to stop using emojis and send images
in their stead, than the different platforms give them the same meaning?

~~~
JetSpiegel
They have the same meaning, namely the one encoded in Unicode.

Just because different platforms have different fonts does not charge they
meaning.

An "a" in Helvetica has the same meaning as in Times New Roman, but the glyph
is different. "" means the same thing, even though I inputted it as the
Android yellow blobs, I see it as a simple black and white symbol and an
iPhone user reading this will see another different image.

~~~
euyyn
When people look for an emoji in their phone's keyboard to express something,
they don't read the Unicode description for that emoji. When people receive
them, they don't read the description either.

Thus why it's important that, even if they don't have the same style across
platforms (like an 'a' in Helvetica and in Times), they have to depict the
same thing.

For example, if from your HTC phone you send a smiley that looks pretty
content and calm, users of most other platforms will receive it as "I'm
freaking sick of this". The meaning encoded in Unicode for it is "face with
look of triumph" ( [https://emojipedia.org/face-with-look-of-
triumph/](https://emojipedia.org/face-with-look-of-triumph/) ), which isn't
what you meant, nor what your receiver understood.

------
MitjaBezensek
"Coming to a device near you"

Yeah, but not on my device. I didn't even get Android 7 :)

~~~
majewsky
It says "a device near you", not "your device". ;)

~~~
leojg
Isn't his device the nearest near device to him?

~~~
pritambaral
Technically, "a device near you" != "the device nearest to you".

------
komali2
Going to take advantage of an Android thread here to ask something that has
driven me crazy for ~3 years:

How do I disable "pop-down" notifications? i.e. facebook messenger, on
receiving a message, drops down a little message box from the top with that
message. It stays there for about 2 seconds and then disappears... unless
further messages in that chat appears.

The only way I can disable this is by muting that chat, which is not ideal.
Same for Hangouts and other messaging apps. It drives me insane.

~~~
ufmace
Swipe a notification to the side a little bit, and you get a gear icon. Tap
that, and you can set that app's max allowed notification importance. You can
block all notifications, relegate them to only being visible when you pull
down the notification bar, or allow normal icons but not "peeking"
notifications.

~~~
ehsankia
Yep, there's a new feature in Android O that gives you full control over
notifications. You can have them make a sound and pop up, only make a sound,
make no sound, or not show up at all. And you can set that per app, and even
per notification type if they are targetting O api

------
fosco
I have an HTC One M8 which I purchased in summer/fall of 2015. The phone works
great but it makes me sad that I am still on Marshmellow and the phone is no
longer supported.

lately I have been been wishing there is a way I can just run some version of
linux like debian/fedora on my phone and be able to run apt-get update and
upgrade (or yum) as updates are released.

IIRC it cost $600, and technically it does more than I need, but the fact I am
becoming more and more concerned that security updates are not being received
is making me call into question I actually want a 'smart' phone.

I understand android is based on linux but it is above my head to compile this
realease on my own and it is difficult for me to trust rooting the device if
there was an option to install oreo on htcone m8 with my 'old' chipset.

any thoughts? did I miss any truely 'free' linux smartphone OS that I would be
able to use?

~~~
nfriedly
I also have a One M8; mine is currently rooted and running CyanogenMod. (I
keep meaning to update to LineageOS but haven't gotten around to it yet.)

Rooting is nice, and I believe it's important from a philosophical standpoint,
but I probably won't with my next phone because the features I want are
getting built into the OS, and I am missing several apps that just refuse to
work when they detect they're running on a rooted phone. (Everything from
games to my work email.)

It definitely increases the longevity of phon but, while it mostly works, it
has lots of little quirks - especially with the various radios. E.g. I
occasionally have to re-pair bluetooth devices, wi-fi will disconnect and then
re-connect for no apparent reason, etc. Also, sometimes I just find it getting
warm in my pocket and I have to reboot it to make it snap out of whatever
endless loop it's stuck in. (I assume that updating to LineageOS will fix a
few bugs and introduce a few others.)

I'm going to replace it with either the next Pixel or the next iPhone when
they both get released in a month or two, depending on which one I'm more
impressed with. I am going to miss my headphones jack...

~~~
chipperyman573
The only reason I root my phone any more is for an adblocker. Which the iPhone
conveniently has built in... It will probably be my next phone.

~~~
nfriedly
Yea, I use Firefox + uBlock Origin on Android, which doesn't require root, so
I'm covered there either way. (Annoyingly, the regular Firefox on iOS doesn't
_yet_ support adblocking, but I think that will be changing soon.)

~~~
plopz
Browsers on iOS are just wrappers around safari. Apple doesn't allow 3rd party
browser engines. So you will never see feature parity on iOS.

~~~
nfriedly
Yea, I know; and to make matters worse, there's no way to apply Safari content
blockers to other browsers on iOS.

But, Firefox Focus has a built-in adblocking and I believe that feature will
come to regular iOS Firefox sometime soon.

------
rdsubhas
Not saying that everything else is bad, but one thing that strikes me is how
much they have run out of interesting things now that they had to use
fillers[1] like:

 _Tooltips_

 _Support for tooltips (small popup windows with descriptive text) for views
and menu items._

Normally, this would be relegated to a git changelog in the support library.
But this is on the global marketing landing page.

I like to imagine a fictional internal mail thread going like this:

> _Folks! please, give us something, anything, to put on the landing page!_

> Someone replies _duh, maybe tooltips_

> _What 's a tooltip?_

> _uhh, small popup windows with descriptive text_

> _What 's a popup?_

> _uhh..._

> _Nevermind, its on!_

Obligatory /s and yeah its Google, but seriously I can't imagine any other
circumstances on how this specific copy, which tries to explain what a
"tooltip" is by using the words "popup", "view" and "menu item", came up.

This could be a good sign though, of the maturity of the platform (and harder
to feel left out if you didn't upgrade).

1:
[https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/](https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/)

~~~
rdsubhas
(for some reason my comment got double posted, pls ignore this dupe, other
comment is somewhere on top)

------
thinbeige
Nice Marketing coop for an OS where 50% of devices won't get updates.

I don't get it. They bring frequent major updates with such important features
like 60 new emijis or antivirus software instead of just doing their homework
and implementing the number one feature for an OS: Direct OS updates from the
OS vendor and nobody else.

Don't tell me it's a problem and the driver situation is so difficult. This is
just a bad excuse. They want to keep people buying new Android phones.

~~~
widdma
This release introduces Project Treble with the goal, I believe, of fixing
this exactly this problem.

~~~
thinbeige
I don't think it will solve the problem because they still want the hardware
makes to distribute updates.

------
edraferi
> Native C/C++ API for high-performance audio. API function for high-
> performance audio including Native C/C++ audio API.

I wonder if this will be good enough to close the gap with the rich music
creation ecosystem on iOS.

~~~
ciaranconnor
I sure hope so.

Google has been a gold-level sponsor the last couple of years at the JUCE
Summit/Audio Developer Conference with a motivation to push developers in the
direction of the Android NDK. It's good they acknowledge they are behind it
that regard, but there's still a fair amount of catching up to do considering
there's now AUv3 on iOS and no competing standard on Android yet.

------
thinbeige
> that makes it easier and faster for hardware makers to deliver Android
> updates.

They still don't get it. Google as the OS vendor should update all phones and
NOT the hardware makers. Hardware manufacturers can still update their special
features on the side after an OS update got deployed but I want that the OS
and its core become updates directly and only from Google. Why is this so
hard?

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Google doesn't want to bear the cost of testing and releasing updates for all
of the hardware. Most Android manufacturers barely manage to break even (or
outright lose money) trying to sell and support Android hardware. (Samsung
makes money, most others don't.)

Blaming the OEMs for your security issues is free.

~~~
thinbeige
I don't think that MS tests all hardware when updating Windows. Sometimes some
hardware doesn't work after an Windows update and then you just head to the
respective hardware manufacturer and try to get updated drivers. This model
could work for phones too. Google updates and maybe my S8's camera is not
working anymore but at least we have secure and patched phones. And the good
thing is: Samsung has to quickly fix the broken camera, so you create a
totally different urgency.

But Android is an odd OS, we will never see a proper update policy from them.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
It depends what we're talking about. Specifically with ARM processors, it
isn't trivial to add drivers separate from your OS deployment. Microsoft DOES
work with (and update) third party hardware directly for Windows 10 Mobile
devices. And this is true for their third party phones from HP, Acer, etc. as
well.

(Note, I have a Windows Mobile device from 2014, and I still receive the
latest security fix on Patch Tuesday around 1 PM, every month.)

~~~
thinbeige
> ARM processors, it isn't trivial

This is what they tell us for decades. You can just disable parts of an SoC if
no driver is available. This is just an architectural decision Google is not
willing to address.

And ARM reference designs from a handful of manufacturers are not that
different.

~~~
kllrnohj
> You can just disable parts of an SoC if no driver is available.

So you want Google to ship updates where parts of the hardware just stop
working? That sounds fucking awful, no thanks.

And yes ARM's ecosystem has largely still not standardized on self-discover or
self-configuration because they have no incentive to. They just hardcode
whatever configuration they need and call it a day.

------
Abishek_Muthian
Don't let the project treble eclipse the limitations imposed over background
services,

Android seems to have taken iOS approach towards saving power,

"When an app goes into the background, it has a window of several minutes in
which it is still allowed to create and use services"

Though iOS's background restrictions goes up to socket level (e.g VPN, which
android O seems to have whitelisted entirely); this is going to be a huge
impact over consumers and of course pain in the __* for developers.

------
gambiting
Has google forgotten how to do great marketing?

You open the page. Scroll down. What should be the first thing you see?
Obviously it should be the greatest, the best feature of the new OS. What is
it instead? "Quick boot up time". Really? That's the best thing in Android
Oreo? That when I reboot my phone once every 4 months, it's going to start
quicker? Surely they could have picked literally anything else as the first
thing to mention?

------
zecken
A lot of people complaining about using a brand name here -- isn't Kitkat (the
'K' release) also trademarked?

~~~
hansjorg
That was a cross promotion, this probably is as well. Google is an ad company.

~~~
basseq
Yes, Oreo is trademarked, and Google has licensed it from Nabisco.

[http://www.androidauthority.com/android-8-0-oreo-
announced-7...](http://www.androidauthority.com/android-8-0-oreo-
announced-794621/)

------
mixedCase
Android has been improving so much in the performance department I think the
phone that will replace my aging S3 will be... another S3 if I can find one.

Seriously. Software has improved so much but the hardware nowadays is trash
for my needs at least.

~~~
renox
Uh? I replaced my S3 by a S7 and the hardware changes are huge: better CPU
obviously but also much better screen (the S3 was unreadable during sunny
days..)

~~~
mixedCase
Can you replace the battery with an extended one?

That's a deal-breaker for me, and battery cases are not a good replacement
since I can't rely on the phone's own battery indicator, have to manually turn
on/off and looking at ZeroLemon's case for the S7, it seems to require a
headphone extender.

As for the S3's screen I have no complaints. It's readable in the sun with max
brightness, I keep it at minimum the rest of the time.

Finally, the S7's native screen resolution is 1440p, meaning it will munch on
battery much faster for no perceptible gain (at the distance I hold my phone).
And manually lowering the resolution will render a blurrier image than native
720p so that's out.

~~~
dingo_bat
I'm using an S7 edge and it's on the default 1080p resolution. It's not blurry
at all. The difference in quality between this screen and the screen on S3 is
very noticeable. The non removable battery is the only downgrade I see.
Everything else is a huge leap forward. Even battery life is much much better.
You likely would not need an external battery.

~~~
mixedCase
I'd have to see it for myself. My 4k laptop makes me gouge my eyes out in
1080p mode.

As for the battery life you mention, that's probably just the Android upgrade.
I've easily doubled my battery life in 3 major Android version upgrades. 10-15
days (depending on usage) is normal now with a 7000mAh battery.

------
yread
Would be nice if they added a switch to disable connecting to open wifi
networks. Or at least to realize that the wifi is connected but its waiting
for a sign in so internet traffic should still be routed through 4g.

~~~
digi_owl
Used to be that Android distinguished between connected wifi and a internet
connection by trying to reach a Google server or something.

At least my 4.x tablet used to have a 3-state wifi icon, off (not present),
connected (gray), internet (blue).

~~~
i_cant_speel
I would love to have something like this. When I call an Uber/Lyft as I am
walking out of my apartment, it always takes forever for the WiFi to
disconnect, long after it has lost internet connection. So I constantly get
the "Unable to Connect to Network" error, and I have to turn off WiFi and
restart the app to actually call a ride.

If anyone knows of a solution to this problem on a Galaxy S8 I would love to
hear it.

~~~
dingo_bat
What you're experiencing is different. The WiFi still has internet access,
your signals aren't reaching the AP. The phone has no way of remedying this
without switching to LTE very aggressively. I'd assume that would cause
unnecessary battery drain and unneeded switches for many people.

That said, I haven't needed to restart the uber app to fix this. I just
disable WiFi from the notification toggle and the app connects in about a
second after that.

------
secfirstmd
"Auto-connects you to high quality open WiFi and secures your connection with
a VPN back to Google."

Hmmmm. So Google can have even more of your data.

------
josu
So according to the release the new features are:

-Picture in picture (dual app onscreen)

-Notification dots and "force-touch-like-feature" (my words, not Google's) to preview

-Google Play Protect (an antivirus) [0]

-Minimize unintentional overuse of battery from apps in the background

-Faster boot speed

-Support forAndroid Instant Apps

-Over 60 new emoji (sic)

Under the hood stuff, not in the release (thanks u/izakus)

\- Project Treble that splits hardware HAL layer away from the OS layer. Plan
being that this allows updating the OS without having to update the whole
hardware driver stack (and thus avoid being dependant on Qualcomms of the
world to update their proprietary blobs for each release) \- GPU drivers are
now updatable via Play Store (by OEMs)

More new features listed on the main Oreo page [2]:

-Accessibility button: Allows you to quickly access from the navigation bar accessibility features, like magnification, and functionality within accessibility services, like Select to Speak.

-Accessibility volume: Accessibility services can optimize the audio experience for users with disabilities.

-Adaptive icons: Developers can now provide a full-bleed square shaped icon and OEMs will mask the icon to ensure intra-device consistency.

-Ambient screen: Highlights the incoming notification with larger font, highlighted app name and immediate access to actions.

-Background execution limits: More control over how apps run in the background for better overall system performance.

-Background location limits: Limits the frequency of location updates in the background for better overall system health.

-Deep color: Enables applications to render richer visual content with more vibrant colors and subtler gradients. Supports full color management which allows applications to render images in the format and quality they were intended.

-Downloadable fonts: Applications no longer need to bundle custom fonts, which helps reduce their size.

-Install unknown apps: Hostile downloader apps can't operate without permission; users now permit the installation of APKs per-source.

-Integrated printing support: Compatible with all Mopria-certified printers, which make up 97% of printers sold worldwide.

-Linkable files: API that allows you to share files across the Internet via web links.

-Native C/C++ API for high-performance audio: API function for high-performance audio including Native C/C++ audio API.

-Notification categories: More granular and consistent control over which notifications can appear and how intrusive they are.

-Notification snoozing: Lets users hide notifications for a period of time, similar to Inbox snoozing.

-Pointer capture: Pointer capture allows the app to capture all mouse input.

-Project Treble: The biggest change to the foundations of Android to date: a modular architecture that makes it easier and faster for hardware makers to deliver Android updates.

-TextView autosizing: Developers can now let the size of their text expand or contract automatically based on the size and characteristics of the TextView, making it much easier to optimize the text size on different screens or with dynamic content.

-Tooltips: Support for tooltips (small popup windows with descriptive text) for views and menu items.

-Wi-Fi Assistant: Auto-connects you to high quality open WiFi and secures your connection with a VPN back to Google.

[0] [https://www.android.com/play-protect/](https://www.android.com/play-
protect/)

[1] [https://developer.android.com/topic/instant-
apps/index.html](https://developer.android.com/topic/instant-apps/index.html)

[2]
[https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/](https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/)

~~~
mikaru
Where did you see that it has "force touch" to preview? I can't find that
information in any of the links.

~~~
josu
Sorry, they where my words, and a poor choice, I have updated that point. The
feature I was referring to is this:

Notification Dots: Press the notification dots to quickly see what's new, and
easily clear them by swiping away.

------
cma
> Compatible with all Mopria-certified printers, which make up 97% of printers
> sold worldwide.

I wonder if every Mopria-certified printer prints anti-privacy tracking dots.

------
pc2g4d
Seems like the most notable part of this release will be the emoji upgrade :-P
Rustaceans will appreciate the crab

~~~
miguelrochefort
The crab is a must.

------
jorgemf
Instant Apps: I think this can impact very positively the environment but
there are almost not mentions to it.

~~~
dingo_bat
Environment? How so?

~~~
jorgemf
You don't need to have all apps installed. For example: you can go to facebook
web page and launch an instant app, so you have the native experience without
having the app installed. Also with places like amazon or anything that you
don't use very frequently. Moreover you can test an app without installing it.

~~~
dingo_bat
Ok I get that you don't need to install all apps. But again, how does it
affect the environment?

~~~
jorgemf
that you don't have to install apps to use them? Like you go to a web page and
can have native experience, with its animations and everything. Much better
than a web experience.

------
jng
Please use a PNG for the emojis image... it's so painful to see the JPEG
halo/bleeding artifacts...

~~~
krit_dms
How can you send time constructing such a fancy webpage, and not notice that
jpeg mess?!

------
mdlowman
Quite excited by the "high-performance audio API". Could drive a different
consumer segment.

------
baoha
Not related but does Google have to pay Oreo money for using its name/image?

------
BinaryIdiot
This seemed like the best choice in name and yet I wonder if they'll draw the
same ire from the community as they did when choosing Kit Kat.

Honestly I like it; it was better than basically all the other alternatives.

~~~
ngcazz
No, it wasn't :) [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovos_Moles_de_Aveiro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovos_Moles_de_Aveiro)

------
Freak_NL
A non-generic brand name for their O-release? Did they strike a deal with
Nabisco/Cadbury? I can't imagine Google doing this without some form of legal
go-ahead from the trademark owner.

~~~
pervycreeper
Of course. Would be interesting to know what the exact quid pro quo is for
deals like this though (who pays whom, and how much, etc.).

~~~
PascLeRasc
Yeah, I wonder which brand benefits more from this. I would imagine Oreo since
there are far more cookie brands than mobile OS's.

~~~
balls187
At first I thought so too, but the brand dilution that is going to happen has
to have some negative penalty.

Oreo will receive "free" marketing, but now will have to share the name with a
version of a mobile OS.

------
pjmlp
>Google Play Protect:

> Working to keep your device and data safe from misbehaving apps by scanning
> over 50 billion apps per day, even the ones you haven't installed yet!

Also known as anti-virus.

~~~
Artemis2
[https://www.android.com/security-center/](https://www.android.com/security-
center/)

This page says 8 billion a day, which seems inconsistent. Also how many apps
are there on the Play Store to scan that many?

~~~
bitmapbrother
It checks the apps on the device. Considering the amount of Android devices
with Google Play Services that number seems consistent.

------
H1Supreme
> "Native C/C++ API for high-performance audio"

This is good to hear. But, this makes me wonder about Android's ability to
prevent people from pirating apps. Due to the nature of Android, I've never
wrote an app that wasn't free.

On iOS, there are a number of audio apps that do quite well. I'd be hard
pressed to port an app to Android, if taking the apk was as easy as it's
always been.

------
suckerburg
So, it was announced during the eclipse (dark and bright). It's called Oreo
which is the same but they still didn't bother with a dark mode?

------
cconcepts
>> Swift moves, behind the scenes

Translation: we developed better compression algos for uploading your personal
data to our servers

------
visarga
> Wi-Fi Assistant: Auto-connects you to high quality open WiFi and secures
> your connection with a VPN back to Google

VPN back to Google?

------
Naracion
I wonder if the visual play of the Oreo mimicking a solar eclipse on the
homepage [1] is a coincidence, seeing as how it was released on the 21st.

[1]
[https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/](https://www.android.com/versions/oreo-8-0/)

------
jiqiren
I'm looking forward to Google finally allowing PiP to work in the YouTube app
on iOS...

~~~
digi_owl
Say hello to the MAFIAA...

------
nihonde
My experience with my Android-based TV is that every Android update and every
update of Google's own apps (e.g., YouTube) is a regression is so many totally
unnecessary ways that it almost seems deliberate at this point.

------
AaronMT
I remember being excited about new Android releases. Boy times have changed.

------
matthberg
This looks interesting:

"Linkable files: API that allows you to share files across the Internet via
web links."

Will this mean that I don't have to download a pdf to view it? I wonder what
this feature means.

~~~
rohan1024
I am still wondering what it is. Theirs no documentation.

------
pjmlp
Not on my LG and Asus devices, no sir.

And I don't believe OEMs and telecom operators will release updates even with
Treble, if Google doesn't force them to do so.

------
hyperpallium
Reminds me of a windows release.

Except that, if mobile OS's could still disrupt the desktop, there's still
many features to go?

------
hathym
Did google forgot how to design web pages?

------
jamesmattis
I love the intro video of Android Oreo launch as they used the context of
Solar Eclipse on 21st August.

------
suyash
Too bad most Android devices will never get this update. This is where Android
sucks compared to iOS.

------
wavesplash
FYI Oreo Battery Life on the Nexus 5X is really bad. Don't upgrade if you have
one.

~~~
hoschicz
Really? By how much? Since when were you using the developer previews?

~~~
wavesplash
Dev previews for over a month - 1/4 to 1/2 less battery time. Same with the
release - perhaps a tiny bit better.

------
stefs
Express yourself in more ways than ever: Share the feels with a fully
redesigned emoji set, including over 60 new emoji.

[http://nedroid.com/2014/08/phone-home/](http://nedroid.com/2014/08/phone-
home/)

------
zgavin1
classic hacker news thread on new tech: i only learned negative things.

------
abol3z
Finally Android will stop Facebook apps from sucking my RAM secretly!

~~~
metalliqaz
I've found a fantastic solution that works on any phone! Uninstall facebook
and facebook messenger. Then use Chrome and facebook's mobile site. Life
changer, man.

~~~
kevincox
I haven't had much problem with FB Messenger, and it's app is more useful then
the mobile site.

However the main app is a total dog and the mobile site is quite complete.
Would definitely remove it.

------
baalimago
New EMOJIS? O-M-G finally! I've waited so long!

------
nutbutter
I love doing "Two things at once, at once."

------
randyrand
Why on earth did they go with a restricted trademark, Oreo?

Oreo must have payed a good sum of money I suppose?

Coming up with the legalese on how and where Google is allowed to use the Oreo
trademark seems difficult.

~~~
dsp1234
Does INTERCONTINENTAL GREAT BRANDS LLC have a trademark for Oreo in the
"computer and scientific" or telecommunications categories?

If not, then there is no trademark issue. Google isn't selling a food, it's
selling an operating system.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Only they're marketing it with oreo cookie mascot, look at all the material. I
highly doubt you can just do that.

It's the same with kit kat, they probably couldn't just use that, either.

But it's a win-win for both parties, I doubt either of them paid.

~~~
jerf
They can't, without permission.

The logical conclusion is that they have permission, not that one of the
largest companies in the world made a legal mistake that the "We Are Not A
Lawyer"s on HN can see right through... for (at least) a _second time_. Keep
an eye out for Oreo packages with Android branding material on them, in the
style of: [http://cdn.redmondpie.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/kitkata...](http://cdn.redmondpie.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/09/kitkatandroid1.jpg)

I do find myself curious what the negotiations look like when Google wants to
not just use Oreos, but _not_ slather all their material with "Oreos are a
registered trademark of blah blah blah", which is pretty unusual.

~~~
non_sequitur
They definitely had permission. Android was cross marketed on Kit Kat bars as
well, e.g.:
[http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1444541.13782299...](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1444541.1378229930!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/google-
kitkat.jpg)

------
locusm
These scroll to reveal sites have to die now.

------
ece
The easter egg is the worst ever.

------
smegel
> Swift moves, behind the scenes

Seriously?

------
timothycrosley
All these releases are meh... I'm waiting for the Reese's release to bite

------
arstaetro
Don't name Android versions after brands. Now we're stuck with 2 (k,o)

~~~
vinod_s19
feel the same!

------
k45
mjjhmmj .

------
baitbiter
For people complaining they cant get this, it's their own fault. People keep
buying carrier phones knowing fully well the problems with locked, bloated
androids. Either just buy unlocked phones that you can control or face the
consequences.

------
adamjmi
I don't like the product placement in the release name.

~~~
s17n
If by "product placement" you mean that Nabisco paid Google for this, I doubt
that is the case. If anything, the money would have gone the other way.

~~~
bch
I see there seems to be a dearth of common, easy o-names, but is the name
_that_ valuable, and they refused to punt to "orange _______"?

------
d0m
"Allows you to see two apps at once, it's like having super strength and laser
vision." really

------
rglover
As a half-black, half-white man, I find this name incredibly offensive.
#halfblacklivesmatter

I'll leave it up to you to figure out if I'm serious or not (and yes, I really
am mixed so this is plausible).

~~~
ghostbrainalpha
I think from a certain point of view, "Oreo" could be a great compliment. It
is an explicit association with everyone's all time favorite candy snack...
(fuck off if it is not yours).

Sincerely,

The Marketing Manager at Nabisco

~~~
rglover
So I get to be eaten alive under the pretense of being a delicious snack
treat, cool.

