
Outraged by the Google Diversity Memo? I Want You to Think About It - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/blog/outraged-by-the-google-diversity-memo-i-want-you-to-think-about-it
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dang
This is a dupe of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14976028](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14976028).

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ebola1717
I disagree. Debating this memo is like debating about crime statistics every
time a black person gets shot by the cops. There are people that understand
the role social forces play in inequality, and there are those that don't know
and don't want to know. In the past 4 years, through Black Lives Matter and
GamerGate, I've never seen anyone's opinion changed through debate. There's no
bridging the two sides. I think it's genetic or something ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
w4tson
I've thought this EXACT thing and told friends privately the same. I thought
it too incendiary to draw a parallel here though.

Also, the article seems to think missing out some weak-ass graph and a link to
wikipedia as irrefutable proof that this guy knows what he's talking about and
everyone is out to misconstrue his words. Nope.

I'll tell you some bias he makes no mention of. The bias of having Disney
princess for girls before they're born. Of being bought pink and told they're
pretty not clever. Then getting dolls as presents instead of practical problem
solving toys. The shoes and clothes bought that aren't practical for climbing
trees or exploring. Then watching every Hollywood film about men while
pathetic women characters look savvy and get "rescued" like the fairytales
they were told when they were little.

After all this, even if the adverts of scantily clad girls in both boys and
girls magazines haven't dissuaded them a career in science. Perhaps they study
and perhaps they do so well as to get a job at google. Where they will be
surrounded by a good many male asshole engineers (it's likely because I'm a
male software guy and have seen no shortage). They persist anyway. Then some
male privileged white lad who's a Princeton graduate pops up and says they're
neurotic. Wants to talk bias in an open way? Nope

He's missed the point. He wants to talk about the very few who've travelled
that unlikely journey made all they way to Google despite the obvious barriers
that were in place before they were born.

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whitemale
> Also, the article seems to think missing out some weak-ass graph and a link
> to wikipedia as irrefutable proof that this guy knows what he's talking
> about and everyone is out to misconstrue his words. Nope.

You do realise that this is what people making the opposite arguments do,
right?

> I'll tell you some bias he makes no mention of. The bias of having Disney
> princess for girls before they're born. Of being bought pink and told
> they're pretty not clever. Then getting dolls as presents instead of
> practical problem solving toys. The shoes and clothes bought that aren't
> practical for climbing trees or exploring. Then watching every Hollywood
> film about men while pathetic women characters look savvy and get "rescued"
> like the fairytales they were told when they were little.

What about times before TV existed? what about countries where computers and
games weren't marketed?

> After all this, even if the adverts of scantily clad girls in both boys and
> girls magazines haven't dissuaded them a career in science. Perhaps they
> study and perhaps they do so well as to get a job at google. Where they will
> be surrounded by a good many male asshole engineers (it's likely because I'm
> a male software guy and have seen no shortage). They persist anyway.

Most software engineers where nerds and there was a huge societal pressure
against nerds, that didn't stop nerdy boys from doing what the want to do.

> Then some male privileged white lad

If it's a poor black women from the ghetto making the same argument, does it
make the argument better?

> Wants to talk bias in an open way? Nope

If you dare say that: it's not only women that have issues in life or that we
don't live in a patriarchy, people label you as fascist, sexist, racist etc.
Want to talk about double standards in an open way? Nope.

> He's missed the point. He wants to talk about the very few who've travelled
> that unlikely journey made all they way to Google despite the obvious
> barriers that were in place before they were born.

Are you implying that only women have barriers?

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bloaf
>But however imperfect his attempt, he was fired, in short, for thinking on
his own.

I agree with this sentiment. I also agree that google had a right to fire him
for it. There was a time when I thought that google wasn't the kind of company
to fire people for their ideas. Now I know otherwise.

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cockofthewalk
I thought the sentiment of the memo was already basically laid out here:
[https://www.amazon.com/Men-are-Mars-Women-
Venus/dp/006123205...](https://www.amazon.com/Men-are-Mars-Women-
Venus/dp/006123205X)

~~~
Houshalter
The best essay I've seen on the subject is here:
[http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-
exagger...](http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-
differences/) it's a lot better than the original memo.

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11thEarlOfMar
Fuel to the fire...

Here's a neuroscientist explaining to Google the congenital differences
between the female and male brains:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_uGr1ZOn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu_uGr1ZOn4)

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rising-sky
[http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170811-what-google-
engine...](http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170811-what-google-engineer-
james-damore-got-wrong)

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CalChris
_The one that says one shouldn’t expect employees in all professions to
reflect the demographics of the whole population?_

That doesn't outrage me but then that isn't what the memo said.

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notreallythough
As this guy's ongoing reaction verifies (His twitter handle is
"@fired4truth"), a manifesto is a "here's why I'm right" rather than a "let's
talk about this." This guy has no intention of having an open dialogue.

Trying to circulate a 10-page manifesto explaining how management doesn't
understand what they're doing is going to get you fired just about anywhere.

