
Ask HN: How do you ask other seniors questions and not get shit on long-term? - evex
I&#x27;ve noticed that when I ask other seniors questions I don&#x27;t know the answers of, or that I even know the answers of but just want to make sure(the case most of the time),<p>they immediately start thinking they&#x27;re better than me, they start questioning any technical decision I make in a humiliating way,<p>How can I talk with other seniors without them feeling superior over the long-run?
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tomcam
Maybe find a better place to work? I was at Microsoft for for years and asked
dumb questions of some of the smartest people in the world. They never, ever
made me feel bad about it.

~~~
evex
> They never, ever made me feel bad about it.

I think this is what real seniors are about, they avoid making others feel
inferior.

> Maybe find a better place to work?

I want to, but the other senior was a friend of mine that I don't want to
lose.

Do you know how I can fix things and regain my respect?

~~~
afarrell
> they start questioning any technical decision I make in a humiliating way,

You regain respect by getting clarity on what they meant when they said the
humiliating thing. "When we were X, you said Y. By that, did you mean to imply
Z?"

They'll either clarify that they didn't mean Z or they will double down and
explicitly ridicule you.

In the first case, problem solved. Maybe you talk about why his words would
make a reasonable person feel ridiculed, maybe you don't. Either way, you've
eliminated the possibility of misinterpretation, which always exists when
humans communicate.

In the second case, you need to actually confront him about that if you want
to gain respect. Look him in the eye and say something like, "Okay look dude,
we're here to help each other learn and solve problems. If you're going to
ridicule someone for asking a clearly-framed question, you're not doing a good
job at that. That's a serious problem. How can I help you practice that?"

Is this confrontational and therefore uncomfortable? Absolutely. Does it
require enduring an uneasy feeling in your bowels as you stand up straight and
maintain eye contact? yep. But being willing to deal with uncomfortable
situations, keep calm, and drive problem-solving-focused confrontation is
necessary for the sort of leadership that earns the respect you are looking
for.

~~~
beaconstudios
> "Okay look dude, we're here to help each other learn and solve problems. If
> you're going to ridicule someone for asking a clearly-framed question,
> you're not doing a good job at that. That's a serious problem. How can I
> help you practice that?"

It might be just me, but this comes across as condescending or patronising.
I'd be inclined to be more straight forward and just say something like "I was
asking <your question> to <valid reason a senior would ask said question>. I
don't appreciate you ridiculing me for what should be a perfectly normal thing
to ask, so please don't do that again."

Obviously don't go that route if they aren't owning the ridicule. If they try
to weasel out of it or be passive aggressive then sometimes you just have to
pin people to their implications.

------
ggm
As a (somewhat) senior, I think its very hard to distance yourself from the
core belief age == knows more. Its not just mansplaining (although I am sure I
do this, hateful though it is) -It's like the human DNA is baked in to assume
something which palpably isn't true, and frankly has never _been_ true.

The humiliating behaviour part is simply unacceptable. You might need to talk
to HR and ask them to remind senior staffers not to do this, and that annual
review process includes feedback on this kind of thing. The problem there
being if you can be identified by context, you get all the negativity which
goes with that kind of thing.

They sound like asshats, frankly. Is it possible they just need to be told to
can the ass-hattery?

Bullies sometimes can't be stopped. They have to be avoided. The problem is
that senior bullies are glued in place.

A cheats way out would be this:

actors: Ron, Frank (seniors) and Debby (junior, or disrespected less-senior)

Debby: hey, Ron, I think I heard frank say <theory of debby>

Ron: oh yea, thats true and cool

Debby: hey, Frank, I think I heard ron say <theory of debby>

Frank: oh, Ron, he's a complete twonk. Thats rubbish this is why...

Another cheats way out might be "..I read in Knuth that ..." or "Van Jacobsen
said to me that ..." which puts the words into somebody else's mouth.

I read that to overcome the same structural behaviours in the Astrophysics
community, some senior astronomers took to asking questions for PhDs because
they weren't getting traction, and I have also read that Nils Bohr and others
used to commit deliberate solecisms in workshops, to remind people anyone can
make mistakes and encourage junior staff to speak out and correct them. Which
is kind-of sad, manipulative, but what it says is "this is a problem of some
long time.. " oh wait.. sorry.. sorry.. I'm doing it again...

~~~
evex
Thanks for your thoughtful reply

> A cheats way

I see your cheats way is to put words into somebody else's mouth,

which should work in an environment where there are more than 2 senior devs,
but we are only 2 seniors, so the "I read in Knuth that" method should work.

How can I get my respect back and not cheat around the issue? should I dive
into more advanced topics and show it in my work?

~~~
ggm
Maybe, find a mentor outside this relationship and without breaching your NDA
and company obligations explore your ideas, and competencies and gain back
some sense of self-respect because somebody you trust shows you it again?

Professional development, in field can help. I have a colleague who does FP,
but can't find enough tasks at work to use Haskell on, and he does a monthly
functional-coders meetup and gets a huge amount out of it.

I found asking other people if they'd hire me gave me a lot of confidence
around how I felt in role. I didn't waste their time actively seeking jobs,
but exploring what you are worth outside your current role can be validating.
It pays to have options.

My cheats way is really not ok btw. You can't sustain denying your own ideas.
But, once you can get over the sense its a game they're playing and the actual
ideas have merit, its somewhere to move from. You maybe get an ah-HAH moment
from it but I suspect that doesn't play well

(37 years in, I'm only too well aware of hearing my own ideas played back at
me. It used to infuriate me but now, I take it some kind of compliment they
finally soaked in, if other people take ownership of them)

------
whatupmd
Let go of your ego - what’s wrong with somebody knowing something more than
you? Aren’t there topics you are an expert on? How do you handle it when
someone asks you a question? If there is a marked difference between how you
respond and they respond - maybe they are just a jerk or have bad social
skills, that’s not your problem. If you respond in a similar way when asked
questions then it’s just your ego having a hard time when the situation is
reversed.

~~~
evex
Ego can definitely be a problem here, I hope its not ego that caused this (and
I don't think it is)

> If you respond in a similar way when asked questions then it’s just your ego
> having a hard time when the situation is reversed.

I 100% don't respond in any similar way.

