
Mixcrate shuts down - empressplay
http://www.mixcrate.com/
======
glennos
It's disappointing that, before trying to shut them down with legal threats,
record labels don't try to partner and monetise sites like Mixcrate. While I'm
making an assumption here, I think it's very likely to be the case.

No one is going to hear a track in a DJ mix, then NOT buy it because they
heard it in a mix. It's just not a substitute for anything that labels are
selling. In fact, the opposite is true, that people are much more likely to go
and buy a track because the mix helped them discover it.

A large number of folks uploading mixes to Mixcrate would be amateur, making
no money from whatever promotional value using a track may give them. They do
it for the love of it. Some would have been DJs who do mix for profit. I'd
suggest some low-cost licensing system, paying a few dollars a month to use
licensed tracks would be a decent solution for both.

Sites like Mixcrate closing down kills two revenue streams for labels, 1)
referral/discovery purchases and 2) a direct licensing model.

~~~
majani
Whenever labels do this, they offer egregious terms that render the business
unsustainable.

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vinceguidry
Such bullshit. They're shutting down, not because of any real lawsuit, but
because of a _threat_ of a lawsuit. Is this really what America is about?

It wasn't even a real threat of a lawsuit. It was an _email_ from someone high
up in the music industry. That's all it takes.

I love the United States, but fuck, it really disappoints me sometimes.

~~~
jmathai
It is. My views on contracts and law suits changed when we got a trademark
infringement suit against us.

It became a function of "how much is this going to cost us?" We ended up
changing the name of our company even though we didn't think the accuser had a
case. It wasn't about who was right. It was about how much money did we think
they would be willing to put up because we'd have to match it.

~~~
bambax
> _we 'd have to match it_

But how is that?

Is it that the party with a lot of money can file many briefs and that the
other party has to respond to them? (and what if they don't? Do they lose by
default?)

And could it not be fixed by limiting the number of possible briefs, by law
(depending on non-hackable criteria such as, amount of damages awarded in
similar cases, etc.)?

~~~
vinceguidry
So, if you're fighting the government, you have an advantage in that it costs
the state money to enforce a judgment. The weight of precedent means that the
government has to enforce laws against _everybody_. If what you're doing is
politically sensitive, then you could find the hammer of the law dropped on
you fast, but if you're in a political blind spot, then you can get away
without getting slapped for a long time.

Fighting the music cartel, on the other hand, that's a completely different
animal. They can afford to pay big teams of lawyers to slap you silly, and
_keep_ doing it for as long as they want. If they want you out of business,
they're going to find a way.

Picture all the people trying to make the world a better place as a bunch of
ants. Fighting the government is like fighting a bear. The bear can crush a
few of you but not all of you. Fighting the music industry is like fighting a
hoard of dragonflies.

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crobertsbmw
I hate how we use the political system to fight progress. I feel like a
majority of startups end up facing this. Uber, vidangel, mixcrate. To
paraphrase Russ Roberts, progress isn't made by the union getting you an extra
two dollars an hour, it's made by inventing a bulldozer and letting one man do
the job of 50.

~~~
lsiebert
Weekends and 40 hour work week and no children working and health insurance
aren't progress? But seriously this isn't about unions, this is about how
money influences processes. Those with money get to make the rules because
they can afford to go to court when others can't. You want progress, I'll take
either a liberal or a libertarian solution to that BS.

~~~
khedoros1
The comment you responded to isn't about unions either. To re-paraphrase it:
"Progress isn't made by small increases in quantity, but large changes brought
by doing something completely differently." Or "Progress doesn't usually
happen iteratively, but in great bounds when fundamental assumptions are
challenged".

The things that you listed are examples of that kind of progress.

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alva
Would be interested to know if specialised companies exist that invest in
these particular scenarios. Good product, decent number of users but without
the financial means to face a lawsuit (that has some chance of winning).
Essentially a lawyer service who take a chunk of equity if they win.

~~~
vinceguidry
They weren't even threatened. A lawyer didn't write the email. They just got
spooked and decided to quit. You can't fix this problem with anything other
than "changing the climate of the music industry" as they wrote in their
letter. You're going to need a lot more than a new legal service to fix this.

If you want to make money and have an impact, do goddamn _anything_ but try to
do it through or with, or anything around music. You can make money, or have
an impact, but fuck you if you try to do both. The music industry and the
world Hacker News was birthed in are at complete 180 degree odds with each
other.

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lancewiggs
It seems like a reaction based on some very conservative legal advice and a
nasty cease and desist letter. I hope they have a strategy to negotiate and if
no quick progress then name and shame by publishing the letter.

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ChrisNorstrom
Looks like they weren't making money, it was a passion project, and the burden
of seeking legal help just to protect a site that may not have had a future
was just too much. We've all been there. See you around Mixcrate folks!
Somewhere else, some other time...

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ilostmykeys
Wait a second... Why don't we have completely anonymous companies whose
technology/app cannot be shutdown (at least not by armies of lawyers) -- Is
there such a thing?

~~~
throwaway13337
The most common thing that stands in the way of that is when you start
accepting money.

The payment processors tend to cut ties if you do things that are deemed
illegal.

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TekMol
Since Mixcrate is an LLC, why didn't they just wait it out? If the other
company really sued and bankrupted the LLC - so be it. Shut it down. Why shut
it down because of a "letter"?

~~~
jpalomaki
Is there any risk that the LLC owners would be held responsible for the
company's actions?

I have zero knowledge about this stuff, quick googling returned a result[1]
which says the owner might be held personally liable if "intentionally does
something fraudulent, illegal, or reckless that causes harm to the company or
to someone else"

[1] [https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-
basics-30163.htm...](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/llc-
basics-30163.html)

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vinceSD
This was a bomb site! Sux to see it taken down! For @2ndIInoneproductions, is
there another site that I can listen to your tribute to 'King Sun' mix. That
was a bomb mix! Thanks!

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Bostongreen
The only place I get my music now I don't know no other site to download I am
devastated really I am

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rhizome
I hope this isn't a harbinger.

