
The CIA uses board games to train officers - grkvlt
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/03/the-cia-uses-board-games-to-train-officers-and-i-got-to-play-them/
======
tnecniv
It's worth noting that JFK and Henry Kissinger were big fans of the game
Diplomacy.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_(game)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_\(game\))

~~~
paulcole
Great article from Grantland (RIP) on Diplomacy:

[http://grantland.com/features/diplomacy-the-board-game-of-
th...](http://grantland.com/features/diplomacy-the-board-game-of-the-alpha-
nerds/)

~~~
jnordwick
The writer got absolutely roasted in that article. LOL.

    
    
       “Are you going to be paid for writing this story?” a Scottish player asked me. “Because I am losing three days’ wages to be here so that I can get screwed by you.”
    

(why does HN still not support decent formatting)

~~~
jlgaddis
I usually quote like this:

> _“Are you going to be paid for writing this story?” a Scottish player asked
> me. “Because I am losing three days’ wages to be here so that I can get
> screwed by you. "_

The leading > and italics make it clear that it's quoted and it avoids making
the reader scroll horizontally. Not perfect but it's about the best you can do
here, AFAIK.

~~~
jnordwick
It is best you can do and it is horrible HN still doesn't have good and easy
comment formatting.

Try posting small piece of code. You hear me HN?!

~~~
Keverw
I really wished HN supported markdown personally.

Edit: I found the formatting doc for HN
[https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc](https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc)

 _> Text after a blank line that is indented by two or more spaces is
reproduced verbatim. (This is intended for code.)_

So that might be the answer to putting code on here.

    
    
      function say(message: string, volume: number): void {
          //do text to speech code here
      }
    
    

but still markdown would be nicer. just do and depending on the phaser/styling
it will even do code syntax coloring to increase readability.

    
    
      ```typescript
      new line with the code
      ```
    

(Edit again: Without the 2 spaces, HN put my markdown example all on one line)

I guess moving HN to markdown could be done. Just say all posts after X date
are markdown(or add a boolean to the post in the DB saying so. Then have the
editor have like a preview button(but I know HN likes to be lite on JS stuff)
but the md could be generated server-side, but do the preview client side.

------
jinfiesto
I'm not surprised. I think games, especially board games, are infinitely
better for developing strategic and tactical acumen than infinite seminars.
Games actually have a feedback loop where you are rewarded for correct
planning and sequencing and punished for mistakes.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Not just strategy but working together. The article mentions that Collection
compares favourably to Pandemic.

I've seen people start to get agitated at each other playing Pandemic.

------
rodionos
I recall going on a 3-day course to a marine officer training camp somewhere
in VA. There was a obstacle course which was hard, i.e. you had to swim in
cold muddy waters (October time), climb fences, dig trenches etc. 80% of teams
finished within the deadline of 4 hours. And then there was a exercise room
which the Marine instructors said was designed by CIA. You're locked into a
room with some instruments and are given an assignment to be completed under a
deadline. The outcome was binary: yes/no. Success rate was like 10%. The odds
were so that they can identify the best decile.

~~~
shoo
i heard something similar about designing questions for maths exams -- about
half the questions should be pretty basic, so students who have studied and
have a basic grasp of the concepts should be able to get them right and pass
the course. then the rest are harder, with e.g. one or two questions being
more difficult extensions of what was covered in the course.

it sounds like the structure of the marine officer training camp avoids the
problems some students have with poor "exam technique" \- if you are given a
fixed block of time to use to attempt all tasks (e.g. the obstacle course, the
exercise room) then there is the risk of students spending all their time on
the hardest task, and not leaving enough time to succeed at the other easier
tasks.

edit: on another hand, you could argue that "a student's poor exam technique"
could equally well be called "poorly designed exam / measurement process"

------
Nicholas_C
Large corporations also do this with their more senior folks. They pay big
bucks to consulting firms to get a custom designed game that is similar to
their industry.

~~~
SubiculumCode
Very interesting to know. I wonder if the Federal Reserve ever train
similarly?

------
ryanmarsh
I love love love Diplomacy but will never ever play it with people I care
about. This game is "the breakup". If you want to win you basically have to
lie and betray. Trust is easy to break and hard to gain.

~~~
pmarreck
That's funny, I sort of feel similarly about Settlers of Catan lol.

Taught that game a few years ago to my Boston friends (back when I lived in
Boston) and it ended up being a big hit _and I never won a game again._

I'm too nice, I guess.

Not sure if relevant but the guy who tended to win the most now heads a
multimillion-dollar company. So there's that...

------
Mikeb85
Ever wonder why Russians are so good at politics and espionage?

There's a very popular board game they're also very good at, and have been for
at least a century.

Humans are humans. And game theory is the same for every game, only the medium
changes.

~~~
67726e
Are you trying to imply that Russia is skilled in politics and espionage
because they're proficient at chess?

~~~
mablap
I'm a neophyte player (1250), actively learning. I can definitely see how
learning chess to a respectable level (~1500) can help you make decisions in
everyday life. I could elaborate a bit but this is a subject about which much
has already been written.

~~~
barrkel
I really don't think so. Getting really good at a game involving a discrete
territory relies heavily on developing spatial intuitions that are specific to
the game. Through experience and study of prior games, you get increasingly
aware of the possibilities of positions many moves in advance; humans aren't
built to exhaustively analyze game trees like the naive chess AIs of the 90s.
If the game isn't a transparent metaphor for something else in life, then the
intuitions won't apply either. Real life doesn't have things that move like
knights, or shape the board like pawns.

~~~
mablap
An Elo score of 1500 is not considered being "really good" at chess.

In real life, you have to make choices. Some choices preclude certain futures
while enabling others. Sometimes you can make a sacrifice now in order to
"win" later. Etc.

I am _not_ saying that memorizing complex mating patterns for example can be
directly transposed to real life decision making. Rather, realizing these
exist, and appropriating the patterns of thought that make such analyses
possible is what is beneficial.

You are right that we aren't "built to exhaustively analyze game trees", but
this is precisely what makes learning chess a good thing: you get to train
your mind to do that. Transposing that skill in real life is, I believe,
beneficial.

~~~
grkvlt
I had always assumed ELO was an acronym of some kind, turns out it's the
surname of the system's inventor; Arpad Elo. [0] And, according to Wikipedia,
1500 would be a mid-level player, so not _really_ good, but certainly not
beginner either.

> _In general, a beginner is around 800, a mid-level player is around 1600,
> and a professional, around 2400._

0\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpad_Elo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpad_Elo)

------
krupan
The story at the end of the article about the trainees duping the IT guy is
just gold.

~~~
tominous
Meanwhile Snowden allegedly got access to classified info by convincing 20
people he needed their passwords for his job as sysadmin.

~~~
slim
You mean he's been manipulated by the red team?

------
gravypod
How can I download these and print them out? I could definetly turn these into
a party drinking game.

~~~
Red_Tarsius
If you like heavy strategy games based in historical events, you should take a
look at the COIN series (COunterINsurgencies) by GMT
[http://www.gmtgames.com/](http://www.gmtgames.com/). Actually, their whole
catalog is full of great historical games, including the the highest-ranked
game on BoardGameGeek for many years _Twilight Struggle_. They are definitely
NOT party drinking games though, and require both time and dedicated study.

If you're looking for a 20min party game on the same vibe, I can't recommend
_The Resistance: Avalon_ highly enough. A more recent take on the _hidden role
and voting_ genre is _Secret Hitler_ , but I didn't try that yet.

Links:

Twilight Struggle: [https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-
struggle](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-struggle)

Cuba Libre (COIN series): [https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/111799/cuba-
libre](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/111799/cuba-libre)

Other COIN games: [https://www.gmtgames.com/c-36-coin-
series.aspx](https://www.gmtgames.com/c-36-coin-series.aspx)

The Resistance - Avalon:
[https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/128882/resistance-
avalon](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/128882/resistance-avalon)

~~~
oxide
A buddy of mine bought me a copy of the Steam version of Twilight Struggle. If
you have a willing friend to play with, the PC digital version is just fine.

Matchmaking is there as well as async play, so you can get a game going with a
stranger. but, it might take awhile.

I've played it (with a friend) about 30 hours so far, it really is a great
game. After a few brutal losses I started to get the hang of it. There is
depth, sacrifice and tough decision making. I'm definitely a fan of the game,
now.

Speaking of which, I ought to go take my turn.

~~~
Red_Tarsius
[https://twilightstrategy.com/](https://twilightstrategy.com/) This blog
features a detailed analysis of each card in the game. It's a useful reference
if you want to become a true pro.

------
krupan
I'm excitedly telling someone about this and reading the comments on the ars
website where people say this was done before in the military and the thought
suddenly came to me that we really need to find more excuses to play games
like this in our tech jobs.

Is there some kind of training we need that awesome board games could help
with?

~~~
DanBC
When you're working on a problem having a short break and thinking about
something unrelated allows you to return to the problem with a fresh mind.
People often report this kind of short break is a powerful tool in problem
solving. This short break could easily be a game of something.

When you're working in a company sometimes people are in different silos.
Opportunities to discuss things across the company are lacking. But these
discussions are often useful; a problem in one department might be a simple
fix from another department. People hate meetings. People like games. A games
afternoon once a fortnight would help people discuss this stuff.

------
dorianm
They should play 7 wonders, mafia, resistance, werewolf etc. Definitely
reflects some real world interactions

~~~
stared
Out of geeky (but impractical) things, here is my "A mathematical model of the
Mafia game":
[https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.1031](https://arxiv.org/abs/1009.1031) :)

------
frik
There used to be a PC game genre called Real-Time-Strategy (RTS). Former
famous game series were Age of Empires, Command and Conquer, War Craft, Empire
Earth (and some more). The genre was very popular in 1997-2005. Sadly casual
Free2Play Facebook games, mobile touch and console gamepad destroyed the
genre. Today no Triple-A game worth mentioning gets released in the RTS genre.

RTS is very useful and you can learn a lot.

~~~
carlosdp
What? RTSs are still around... Starcraft 2 was released in the last 5 years or
so, for example.

~~~
gaddferreira
Almost 7 years ago actually[1], in the gaming world i think that's a very long
time.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_II:_Wings_of_Liberty](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft_II:_Wings_of_Liberty)

~~~
ygra
Games that are played competitively tend to stick around for longer. Neither
players nor audiences want to re-learn everything every year or two.

~~~
frik
You can play old games for many years yes. But after a while it gets boring
anyway.

Some of the 10-20 year old RTS games got released as HD-editions recently. But
they are just the same old games. What is really needed are new games with new
content. Not just lame cheap re-releases named "HD". The world needs new
Triple-A RTS games, that are not clones of Star Craft 2. Star Craft 1, Age of
Empires and Command and Conquer series were better games in many respect and
this is what is missing today - non-causul non-F2P new RTS games with
realistic scenarios like in C&C Generals and Age of Empires or Empire Earth
series.

~~~
untoreh
Aoe2 has got a couple of expansions that added more factions, however from my
perspective I don't really look for more content in updates as much as better
features... Spectating a game in aoe2 is a joke and watching the casters
struggle with disconnects and having to synchronize replays is kinda sad.

------
rootsudo
Life is but a game.

Also, to put yourself in the shoes of a country (in terms of crisis). Imagine
you're a guy with several women:

Some women are chill with being friends and understand that. Some women want
you to settle, but you don't or can't. Some women just hate you. Some women
share no interest but could be converted depending on time, resource
allocation (e.g. time or else), etc.

After a while things seem simple, then you notice time conflicts, argument
conflicts. Then you begin to think: "What if they're doing the same thing I'm
doing?"

Then comes in the role of intelligence collection and plausible deniability as
well of minimizing evidence showing alternative events of the same story.

Then, of course will come a time when alliances are formed. Are you with them,
or are you not? Intel sharing? What if they compare the metadata of x and y
event and see an outlier?

------
pzh
Interesting. I submitted this same story about a week ago and nobody cared
until Ars Technica picked it up.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13863084](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13863084)

~~~
zorak
I feel your pain. I wanted to build board games for training in my org three
years ago and management said it wasn't an interesting idea!

------
sjg007
Reasoning under uncertainty, game theory, and counterfactuals.

------
eximius
They should try Tak. :)

