
Reasons not to use Netflix - ivanche
https://stallman.org/netflix.html
======
realharo
Netflix is still way better than the video streaming services run by giants
such as Google, Amazon, or Apple.

You won't see Netflix intentionally not working on Chromecast in order to sell
their own dongles and tie users to its own ecosystem.

Their business is video streaming, so their motivation will be to make sure as
many paying users can access their content as possible.

In contrast, the giants can just use their services as a way towards greater
vendor lock-in.

~~~
dustinmoorenet
The point is that even the best of "them" is still not helping the individual.
Netflix isn't giving back to society, because we can't archive their works
legally or lend them out at a public library.

~~~
smt88
That sounds like a criticism of capitalism rather than a criticism of Netflix.

For me personally, Netflix makes enough good content (and hopefully pays
artists well in the process) that the amount I pay is worth it. I want them to
do little or no harm, but if I only patronized businesses that actively give
back to society, I'd never be able to buy most classes of goods.

~~~
dustinmoorenet
Isn't it terrible that the best we can hope from the larger organisms is they
don't harm us in the process of their daily activities.

I give this criticism knowing full well I pay for it and profit from it.

Holding ourselves and the best among us to higher standards does more than
deriding the worst.

------
scarface74
_Netflix is a surveillance system: it demands customers identify themselves to
pay, and thus records what each person watches. Protect your privacy — reject
Netflix!_

He's complaining that you have to pay for content? Where is the money going to
come from to pay people to produce it? Is everyone suppose to work
voluntarily?

 _{DRM tirade}_

The usual argument against DRM is that you are buying content that you can't
use as you please, with Netflix, you are explicitly not paying for ownership
you are paying for access. Would anyone complain that you can't stay in a
hotel as long as you want when you only paid for 3 days?

 _{Netflix doesn 't let you use what you bought}_

You haven't bought Netflix content, you rented it. I can't go out and sell a
leased car.

 _Educators speak the mission of "socialization" of children, meaning teaching
them to be good, cooperating members of their community. That includes being
willing in general to give things to others_

So if he thinks other people should give away their work. Will he come over
and cut my grass for free?

 _Netflix is parlaying its control of users (obtained through the wrongs
stated above) into a grab for control over video entertainment. Every time you
hear that some video is produced specifically by Netflix, it is be appropriate
to feel a wave of disgust and resentment. Those feelings will help you refuse
to watch it — refuse to feed the monster._

Netflix produces content I want to see, I give them money. They pay people to
produce content. It seems like a fair exchange and a much less crummy business
model than most internet based businesses like Google and Facebook.

~~~
oliwarner
While I share your views on DRM for rented media, I think the broader point
here is if we continue to accept this form of access, the idea of "owning" [an
indefinite, singularly transferable license for] media (eg a DVD) will
evaporate.

I honestly don't have answers here but being reliant on a stack of third
parties just to have continued access to my favourite films isn't a prospect I
look forward to.

~~~
scarface74
There are choices. You can buy content and spend more money or you can rent
it. There is little video I care about owning.

True, in the perfect world you would have something like iTunes + Apple Music
for video. Where you can buy DRM free music and subscribe to receive music
with stricter rights and mix the two.

Microsoft back in the day had the perfect model for subscription music with
the Zune. You subscribed to unlimited music and and you got credit to buy 10
songs a month that were DRM free.

~~~
oliwarner
Choice? You cannot buy mainstream video content without DRM. At all. If you
want to buy-to-keep something Netflix or Amazon _makes_ , you have to wait for
them to release a disc version, and rip it yourself. If they don't sell it?
You're outta luck. What happens if they stop licensing something from its
creator? Gone. What happens if nobody licenses it from its creator? You're
stuck.

And as we head deeper and deeper into this chaos, further away from
traditional distribution into digital only, our choices are going to become
easier and easier to steer, and subvert.

RMS wants all media available without DRM. If that means fighting a slippery-
slope of convenience, that'll have to do. This is, after all, exactly what
he's been doing most of his adult life.

------
monochromatic
It’s very easy to say “don’t use Netflix.” It’s a little harder to say “use X
instead, it’s a viable alternative.”

~~~
rhizome31
In my city, there is a public library that offers a wide range of DVDs. People
can watch them there or they can borrow them. It costs 15€ per year unless
you're unemployed, retired or a student, in which case it's free. I've never
used Netflix.

~~~
spydum
I would suspect Stallman would reject that as well - library keeps track of
what you have rented out, and requires proof of residency to get a library
card. Sounds like exactly the same arrangement (except my property taxes foot
the bill).

------
scandox
> A friend once asked me to watch a video with her that she was going to
> display on her computer using Netflix. I declined, saying that Netflix was
> such a threat to freedom that I felt uncomfortable with legitimizing it in
> this way.

I do respect RMS, but there is a sitcom contained in these two lines.

~~~
eponeponepon
He does himself no favours with his compulsion to rename things - "media
services" becoming "media dis-services", "Goober" for "Uber" and so forth.

Many of his arguments are strong and worthy of discussion, even if his overall
stance is not always so - but the way he expresses them can border into
childishness sometimes. It's a pity; it gives his detractors (of whom I am not
one, to be clear) an excuse to dismiss him.

~~~
addicted
I agree. His points are usually very strong and he has led me to changing my
opinions more than any other single individual.

But his way of communicating often leads to an initial impulse to dismiss what
he is saying outright, much like I would dismiss a Microsoft criticism which
referred to the company as M$ or an Apple criticism that kept calling it
crApple.

------
dec0dedab0de
I agree with everything in here but still use Netflix(and others). It's almost
an addiction.

I remember originally ridding myself of cable, at that time the pain of
spinning a disk or the fear of downloading a torrent limited the amount of
video I watched in a day. Now I that I am unencumbered it has eaten into all
of my other leisurely activities especially video games and music.

------
kashprime
RMS is gonna be RMS. I just wish he was a more realistic advocate of open
content. Creative Commons has taken off while GPL v3 is rarely used.

~~~
jampekka
Creative Commons and GPL are for quite different purposes, and FSF supports
using CC for purposes other than software and software documentation.

[https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/cc-by-4-0-and-cc-by-
sa-4...](https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/cc-by-4-0-and-cc-by-sa-4-0-added-
to-our-list-of-free-licenses)

~~~
sanbor
I think FSF actually modifyed their license to allow Wikipedia relicense to CC
([https://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2008/11/amend...](https://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2008/11/amended-fdl-will-allow-wikipedia-to-adopt-cc-license/))

------
maxsavin
Love it: "A friend once asked me to watch a video with her that she was going
to display on her computer using Netflix. I declined, saying that Netflix was
such a threat to freedom that I felt uncomfortable with legitimizing it in
this way."

------
jokoon
Apart from the morality of using Netflix or not (which to be honest had been
taking off because it's a compromise made towards users of illegal
downloading), it doesn't seem they have many shows of quality. The quantity
and choice is good, but I'm still waiting for an interesting show to watch.

And frankly, requiring a fast internet connection is an added cost. I might
want to watch something on my cheap Android, in a train, and fast internet on
mobile is a no go for me.

Netflix is progress, but it's still a compromise. The fact that it doesn't
have all existing catalogs shows that's it's not ubiquitous.

~~~
eponeponepon
There's some genuine gold in Netflix's library, if you go looking. An awful
lot of dross too, to be sure, but there really is quality tucked away in
amongst the mediocrity.

That's one of the reasons I find this particular essay exasperating - there is
a measurable amount of serious work being distributed on Netflix, clearly made
with care and passion, both in fiction and non-fiction. Yet Stallman's stance
says to deplore those artists' work for their distributor's business
practices. It's literally shooting the messenger.

~~~
tunap
"There's some genuine gold in Netflix's library, if you go looking."

As an early adopter of the DVD program, my biggest hangup was the weighted
catalogue that required me to click through many screens of often repeated
listings(crap titles Netflix wanted me to watch more than I wanted to watch) &
I was never certain I had perused all titles. Without an A to Z listing, it is
obfuscating my options. I don't care for tailored shit that pushes others'
weighted options.

------
grigjd3
I don't get it. I'm paying a monthly fee to have streaming access to videos.
If the service becomes unvaluable to me, I will drop it. For videos I want
lasting access to, I buy the disk. These are choices I make knowing how these
markets work. If you don't like how these markets work, you're perfectly free
to choose not to participate. It's not like anyone is confused or there is
some kind of monopoly or even some kind of predatory lending scheme here.

------
nothrabannosir
The comments here are eerily similar to the “before picture” in this xkcd:

[https://www.xkcd.com/743/](https://www.xkcd.com/743/)

Are we ready to look back on this thread with a bittersweet mixture of regret
and yearning for our naïveté ?

I feel like we’ve been down this road before , and we don’t seem to have
learned much about weighing contemporary practicality against long term
security of freedom. And our duty in _leading_ the development through our
choices , rather than sitting back as ineffectual actors, choosing what works
best for us, without regard for the effect of our choices on the proliferation
of anti-freedom techniques.

Yes, Netflix works well now. That’s not his point. There is no fully superior
alternative. That’s not his point. Our choices and boycotts can _effect_ an
alternative reality. I can’t speak for him, but, even if unwittingly, that’s
what he’s achieving. It’s a sacrifice we all make for the greater good to get
out of a local maximum. It’s about sending a signal.

Signed , a fervent Netflix user on an iPhone :/

~~~
scarface74
So what's that alternate reality? That Netflix allows everyone to copy all of
thier content for free?

------
type0
Netflix actively lobbied DRM to be included in browsers and as a result even
smaller local streaming services are incorporating it into their businesses.
The general populace doesn't know what DRM is and doesn't care. Have you tried
to clarify to a computer illiterate person on what that even means? (you're
basically a thinfoil hat by that point).

------
topcoder1
“A friend once asked me to watch a video with her that she was going to
display on her computer using Netflix. I declined, saying that Netflix was
such a threat to freedom that I felt uncomfortable with legitimizing it in
this way.” Did anyone think the op is intentionally mocking himself? or have I
lost touch with reality

~~~
roboyoshi
It's Stallman we're talking about, so yeah - this is him being 100% dedicated.
I would be a bit more chill, because hell, we just want to watch a f*in movie.

------
onyva
Netflix is useful, I guess, but only if you’re willing to compromise. I can’t
find there everything I’m interested in, and if you can afford only one
streaming service, you’re compromising your intellectual curiosity and
allowing someone else control how wide your world should be.

There’s no single company that can provide such a service and humanity
cultural heritage should not be ephemeral. The possibilities digital archiving
provides are huge and consequential and Netflix and other services like it are
the complete opposite of what’s in our own best interest.

In many ways, this is what American capitalism is all about. Containing and
replacing everything with something that you can make people pay for. From
natural food to cultural artifacts. That’s why the USA is where it is today.
They’ve been fed this myth of exceptionalism to cover for extreme and
dangerous form of cultural poverty.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
If you can't find what you want on Netflix there's nothing stopping you from
using a different streaming service next month, or using no streaming next
month and renting / buying a DVD, new or secondhand.

------
sebringj
Netflix is a positive force driving technology to delight its customers. It
has breathed life into new product lines such as apple tv and roku and paved
the way for others to use the subscription streaming model by example. The
open and free media is great as its own idea and proper application but why
conflate the two?

------
PretzelFisch
I don't understand his drm and antisocialization argument. His comparisons are
to purchased media. But Netflix is renting me access to all of those movies,
with block buster I didn't have legal standing to reloan the video or copy it.

------
darth_mastah
I have great respect for Richard Stallman, but frankly this text seems a bit
paranoid. So what if they know what I watch? Is it too bad if I can have a
list "continue watching" to pick up where I left off? Is it that terrible,
that they can suggest to me other content I may be interested in? Is it a
crime that they want to know how their service is used in order to stay
attractive? I think not.

------
badrabbit
They produce content,they have an anti-competitive bias. That and I simply
don't want to support production of arbitrary movies. I might avoid a
particular studio or director so as to "vote with my dollar", but it is all
too pointless with netflix since they also are the producer.

To me,netflix is like walmart and what it did to smaller stores and how the
quality now is so generic and bland.

------
berbec
It's is good we have someone as dedicated as Stallman. I admire his commitment
but I have to disagree partly with him here.

I believe DRM in media you buy should not be allowed. But you aren't buying
anything from Netflix, just renting.

I'd love a FOSS Netflix client and it doesn't require any loss in security.

------
ryanmercer
Offer me a better product and I'll consider not using Netflix. Once all the
original shows I'm watching have been canceled of course.

------
empath75
What’s the alternative?

~~~
hdctambien
Spinning disks, I suppose

~~~
drngdds
DVD and Blu-ray both have DRM, though. I guess there's always VHS.

~~~
dingo_bat
DRM is not undefeatable.

~~~
pdpi
The problem isn’t defeatability. It’s the principle of buying DRM-locked
content.

It’s a compromise I’m willing to make under certain circumstances, but
ultimately one that bothers me.

------
qrbLPHiKpiux
I really like the plain-textness of this site.

------
CraneWorm
just use the Netflix and TPB too

------
DoreenMichele
_it is be appropriate_

Typos of this sort make me wonder how clearly the man is thinking. That's
perhaps unfair, but that's what crosses my mind when I read something like
this and on top of the general craziness of the position, it has gibberish of
this sort in it.

The post rants a lot about justice, but I am failing to see where in this rant
he allows for the ability of people creating videos to get compensation at
all. This seems to posit that a streaming service just shouldn't exist,
period. The assumption that end users have all these rights, but creators
apparently have none -- that's basically the very definition of slavery, no?

A lot of these things he is protesting were created as some attempt to try to
capture compensation for the people doing the work that makes it possible for
the end user to get all the things Stallman is claiming is some kind of right
of end users.

I'm not comfortable with the moralizing language here. I think we need to do a
better job of making sure people can get their share of the wealth that they
participate in creating, not because of morality or justice, but because when
(for example) Amazon employees are homeless while Bezos is insanely wealthy,
this is basically preconditions for bloody revolution. When the people you
need to create that wealth hate you for how you treat them, this is not a good
thing going good places.

It isn't that I think it is "immoral" for Bezos to make that kind of money.
It's that I think he's a fool to think that bleeding his workers won't come
back to bite him. When their behavior was objectionable enough, even Roman
emperors were sometimes offed by the very guard unit intended to protect them.

There's an old DnD concept of "lawful awful." This is where you try to play an
alignment 1 Lawful Good character who is so "good" and so rigid about various
rules that they wrap all the way around to behaving like a Lawful Evil. This
post sounds a bit like to me.

I have a fair amount of respect for the fact that he believed in certain
principles enough to put his own time and effort into creating open source
alternatives to the proprietary things he felt were inherently in the wrong.
And it's fine if he doesn't want to watch Netflix and wants to layout his
reasoning for it. But this post veers into trying to tell other people to also
embargo Netflix. What I am not seeing is his proposed alternative. And that's
a difference here between his past willingness to write the code and make it
open source because he felt that mattered and this current rant.

If you have a viable alternative to Netflix that fits your high-minded morals,
awesome. If all you have is a rant about how this thing is not good enough, I
think that should stay in the land of personal opinion or personal preference
and not veer into territory of trying to use his position of influence to get
other people to embargo them.

------
adrianhel
This is BS. Go Netflix.

------
philliphaydon
Is this satire?

~~~
topcoder1
Lol if it’s not satire then I don’t know what it is

------
kome
Once again, he is right and forward looking. What technology is becoming is
must be clear to everyone nowadays. Having a democratic technology is a
priority right now, and new IP laws as well.

I never even installed Netflix.

