
I launched my weekend project 7 months ago on HN – here's CameraLends today - derwiki
https://www.cameralends.com/?utm_source=hackernews
======
geuis
I've been a lender on the site since derwiki first posted. There are still 2
critical pieces missing.

1) No insurance. I've talked to derwiki about this via email and he gave a
personal guarantee that anything broken or stolen would be replaced. That was
well-meant but not really the kind of guarantee I need to let random people
rent my $3k equipment.

2) At least 2 days notice before someone makes a request. I've had 3 inquiries
in the last 7 months to rent either my camera or my lenses. All 3 have been
same-day, "can I pick that up in an hour" kinds of things. That model works
for cars but not for cameras. Cars are easy. They sit in a parking spot and
you can hook up remote triggers for them. Easy to rent out on demand. Cameras
are pricy delicate devices requiring safe storage and well-padded bags. If
someone wants to rent mine, I have to be available to hand it to them and to
get it back when they're done. This requires scheduling.

If/when derwiki fixes the insurance and scheduling problems, I'll feel
comfortable using his site. It's a great idea and just needs some polish.

~~~
derwiki
Totally right on (1), I think that's a resounding cry from everyone who has
checked out the site today. As a follow-up, would you (a) be willing to pay
for insurance to hedge your losses or (b) expect that to fall to the renter?

As bobbles suggested, a lot of the rentals that happen are last minute/late
notice -- reservations that the bigger rental shops can't do unless they're
local (and maybe even then can't do). But you're also right; I should make the
messaging clearer on expectations for short notice, and additionally wire up
SMS notifications to lenders (like AirBnB does).

Thanks for sticking with me through the early days!

~~~
geuis
The insurance should probably be handled by you, actually. There's different
models though. Car rental services either require renters to pay a 1 time
insurance fee like Zipcar or to pay a fee at rental time. AirB&B covers the
insurance themselves for housing providers (I think). As a lender, I'm not
going to pay anything to you to use your site. I'd guess most lenders like me
would be the same way. But on the other hand, requiring an extra fee from
customers may be friction in the rental process. That's why I hypothesize you
should cover the insurance yourself. Test the idea, I'd love to hear about the
results.

SMS notifications would be super helpful.

There should be a calendar system. I should be able to mark availability for
my equipment. Rentals should automatically block out time.

Why can't we set the prices?

Also, my stuff is not available for shipping. I have to go back and look but
last time I did not see a way to disable that.

------
conductr
Based on the discussion here, I would allow users to express interest in
products you don't have available. "Get notified when X is available" and
collect an email. This might help you understand 1) what users want 2) if
others users may be willing to acquire the product if they know N others would
rent it out (eg subsidize the cost). I'm unsure of the economics here, but I
would acquire the product myself if I were you. Also, this will give you
future access to these visitors who are currently being lost.

Insurance also may be a big issue for your users to list. If I were you I'd
want my listers to know feel like there was zero downside and almost like they
are wasting money by not listing their gear.

~~~
derwiki
Funny enough, I just cut my "Get Notified when X" module because it didn't get
much use. I think a better way might be able to save search criteria and get
notified when new gear that matches your criteria is posted. What do you
think? Or how do you see this module working?

~~~
conductr
My observation was mainly that people seem not to be finding what they would
like to rent. I don't have a silver bullet for this, but I think you're right
by trying to iterate over it and find something that works. Here are a couple
thoughts:

I don't know if you show products, or have product pages, other than what is
"listed" by lenders. If not, you don't really know what people would gravitate
towards. I would want to create a detailed product page for every piece of
gear I could think of. You will know what was needed based on traffic stats.
You could create a "wait list" or something more desirable sounding.

What about social integration? If you had product which was unavailable, do
you allow people to do something like tweet - "anyone have a Canon EF 135mm
f/2L lens I can rent? {url} @cameralends" This might trigger some offsite
renting/borrowing but you will still benefit from the exposure.

As far as growing traffic, my opinion is if the SERP/SEM/etc methods aren't
working. You're going to have to grind it out and start promoting your brand
offline. Hosting events seems like a good way to get your brand out there.
Sponsoring photography shoots may work well. Hire a model/makeup/etc,
rent/find a cool venue, promote it through a local photo group eg.
meetup/etc). This could probably cost as low as a few hundred bucks per event.
You might even charge for the event (maybe free if they rent something from
the site). As you could imagine, this can go many directions...

Best of luck.

------
vessenes
The site is down now, congratudolences. :)

I have some experience building a market, although not with consumer goods.
Reading about AirBnB's initial work, and also from talking to investors at
Rover, getting one side or other of the market together is always where the
work is.

For AirBnB, apparently, it was listings. For you, that might be the case as
well. Seems like the next step might be to hustle, hustle, hustle and figure
out how to get a lot more equipment listed. I know for sure I'd rent a Mamiya
7 or a Leaf or a Leica M-Monochrom in an instant if it were out there.

~~~
derwiki
Back up. First time I've ever needed more than one dyno :)

Interesting that you'd like to rent more arcane gear; almost everything that
has rented has just been "nice camera" or "nice lens".

~~~
briandear
The Leica Monochrome is insane awesome. However, If I owned that camera, I
would be almost excessively paranoid to lend that camera out.

------
cjbprime
Very cool! For what it's worth, my frustration with borrowlenses/lensrentals
isn't their pricing, which seems reasonable, but their lack of selection --
I'd love to rent out film cameras like an old Leica or a Mamiya medium format,
and no-one seems interested in letting me do that. Maybe this site could?
What's the reason you've limited it to Canon/Nikon digital so far? Seems like
this could be a real differentiator to get your brand out there. (Oh, there
are more options for searching than header buttons for posting. Weird.)

As for getting more traffic, have you tried going where the photographers are,
places like dpreview/500px/I don't know where else?

If you wanted to put all of your energy into this, you might consider buying
some camera gear to rent out to seed the site with renters. That's a large
commitment, though.

~~~
derwiki
Just added Leica and Mamiya (I actually had two disparate lists, so you helped
my correct a bug!). Canon/Nikon have been the gear of the most interest so far
(and high end for both). The headers for "Rent Canon" and "Rent Nikon" are
there for the bulk of visitors coming to the site.

I haven't reached out to many photographer communities, as I didn't feel the
site was end-to-end enough to bother them. I think it's to a good state
though, and will start pursuing this.

I actually bought a 5D Mark II after launching the site that I've rented out
more than a few times :) Luckily enough, I'm also a photographer. It's been a
pretty good incentive to also be able to earn money as a user of the site.

------
derwiki
In January, I posted [http://derwiki.tumblr.com/post/40523233923/getting-
traffic-f...](http://derwiki.tumblr.com/post/40523233923/getting-traffic-for-
your-newly-launched-startup) and got the initial validation I was looking for
on my idea to start a peer-to-peer camera rental marketplace. Seven months
later, I've had some reservations (<50), grown inventory, and expanded to a
few cities. Most of the core flows work. I've been using AdWords attempting to
SEO optimize for traffic, but I'm not getting much traffic. What should I be
doing differently?

~~~
netrus
I remember the original thread. I was very sceptical back then and am happy to
see the project is alive. The website looks very good on first sight. However,
my test search (Canon Body Paris), did not only have not hits, the page looked
broken, as the place reserved for results was just empty.

\- Just add a short apology "Sorry, we could not find what you looked for. But
we have some awesome lenses in Paris, waiting for you to try them!" :)

\- I clicked on your blog-link, and got this: "You attempted to reach
blog.cameralends.com, but instead you actually reached a server identifying
itself as *.herokuapp.com", with a big red exclamation mark.

~~~
derwiki
Great point. For context, I add locations as people request them to post gear
(seems silly to turn lenders away). But that means that places like Paris have
-one- item
([https://www.cameralends.com/items/24mm-3-8-elmar](https://www.cameralends.com/items/24mm-3-8-elmar)
\-- in this case, one that's harder to categorize in my system).

Point is well taken -- I'll add a note to work on the experience for non-SF
visitors.

~~~
clarky07
On this note, you should also add an option for "Any" for at least the brand
and type you are looking for sections. Since you don't have a ton of inventory
at this point, it's likely that whatever search I do outside of San Fran is
going to fail (and even some there.) Every search I've done failed so far...
Let me pick Paris or Cleveland or whatever and show me anything and everything
available there.

I think you have 2 markets here:

1\. People who are interested in getting a nice camera and want to test out a
specific camera or 2 to decide which to get. "Any" doesn't help much here, but
if they have a handful they'd be interested in it might be somewhat useful in
the early stages where you don't have much inventory.

2\. People who aren't interested in buying a nice camera, but would like to
use one for a day. These people specifically, likely don't know which one to
search for, and they don't care which one they get. All of them are better
than their point-and-shoot or phone. Adding an "Any" really helps these
people. Click my city and show me what is available.

~~~
derwiki
Good idea, I like this in addition to tagging mentioned in another comment.
I've added a ticket for "any" filters. Thanks!

Edit: I just remembered that you can also manually edit the search results
query string to remove parameters you don't want. For example,
/gear?brand=canon shows all Canon gear, in any location.

------
asperous
The number one thing I thought of is lost/stolen. On the front page you should
advertise what you do to protect the lender from damages, and borrowers from
accusations of damage.

According to your ToS you already 'guarantee' up to 5k, "Maximum Recovery
Value within CameraLends is not to exceed $5,000" granted your borrowers are
'verified'.

When you are dealing with expensive equipment, this kind of thing is a must.

~~~
georgemcbay
Even worse than lost/stolen is damaged, IMO, just because it introduces a much
bigger gray area.

Let's say I lend someone my Canon 100-400mm, it comes back looking mostly okay
but with a relatively small scratch on the front lens element that I'm sure
wasn't there previously. Still works mostly fine, but now when I shoot with
the sun in the frame, I get lens flare that didn't previously exhibit.

How do I prove the renter subtly damaged the lens, if it comes down to my word
against theirs?

I would need a lot of iron clad assurances that I'm covered in return for
renting out my various $1k+ lenses for a few tens of dollars.

Though ultimately, I don't currently live in a covered city (I'm in San Diego)
so this is theoretical in my case.

~~~
derwiki
You're not the first to have this concern. So far, my policy has been that if
anything happens (the lender is unhappy about his equipment) then CameraLends
will send a replacement and take the broken equipment in exchange. Luckily,
nothing has gone awry, yet.

Would insurance make you feel better? Also, I just added San Diego to the list
of available cities. Feel free to email me at adam@cameralends.com if you have
any more questions or ideas.

------
brittohalloran
Looks nice, congrats. First time seeing it and my most obvious question isn't
answered on the homepage: what happens if someone smashes my gear I rented
out?

You should prominently highlight a protection policy.

~~~
erichurkman
I had the exact immediate question from the other side - I'd be renting
equipment, not renting it out. I looked at two cameras before I started
freaking out about: What if I break a lens? What if I scratch it? What if I
lose the charger? Does it come in the right bag to protect it?

~~~
derwiki
How would you guys construct some sort of insurance policy or other damaged
gear policy that would put your minds at ease? As I mentioned in other
comments, the current policy is for CameraLends to replace the gear if the
owner has a problem with it. What kind of policy would be fairly priced yet
give the assurances you want? Feel free to email adam@cameralends.com.

------
twic
Hey! Where's the Micro Four Thirds gear? I'm being oppressed!

I keep slavering over reviews of the Olympus 75 mm f/1.8 and wondering where i
can get 650 quid from in a hurry. And then trying to distract myself by trying
to decide which of the four decent wide-angle primes i should get. It's not
that i want you to take all my money. But basically, take all my money.

~~~
derwiki
I've got a J1 posted in Mountain View
([https://www.cameralends.com/items/1-j1-10-1-mp-hd-digital-
ca...](https://www.cameralends.com/items/1-j1-10-1-mp-hd-digital-camera)), but
that looks like it. After I get more gear in this category, I'll work on
calling it out more. Thanks for the feedback!

------
chrisgd
First, congrats on getting out there. I was not aware of something like this,
and truthfully had never thought of it as an option. As a father of a 17month
old, my wife and I have talked a little about a true camera (non-iphone) to
take better pictures of our son. My first thought when looking at this website
is that this is for a professional photographer to get gear from someone else,
am I right? Or if I wanted to see how something like this works, is this a way
we could test out a high-definition camera? If so, perhaps you want to
experiment running ads directed at new parents to take professional pictures
(to the extent I could do that with no training) without hiring a pro. Just a
thought.

~~~
derwiki
It's a use case I've pitched to friends who have recently become parents. You
could be the first to do it, and then post pictures of your cute kids on the
web site! It would be a great way to show off the pics you got at a much lower
price than at a studio. Where are you located?

~~~
chrisgd
I am in Nashville, TN.

------
benjamincburns
First off, _kick ass_! It looks like you've found an excellent niche! As
someone who's recently gotten into amateur photography, I can see this
becoming an excellent resource. You can read tons about the technical
parameters of various equipment, but it's hard to see how it all will map to
that intuitive "how can I create this look/feel/emotion" until you get it in
your hands and have a chance to shoot on it for a while.

All of that said, it sounds like your biggest hinderances are insurance and
selection. I think if you solve the insurance problem, the other one will
follow. Keep up the kicking ass, and hopefully I can be your customer soon!

------
geerlingguy
So, so many times I have wanted to do something like this—I'm glad someone
else already has! Any chance you could add St. Louis, MO to the list? :)

I've rented many cameras both locally and via BorrowLenses and RentGlass, and
had a lot of great experiences. But I know there are hundreds of other
photographers within a few miles of me that have the same lenses and would
love to rent them out when they're not using them.

Unless you're a full-time pro, there's no way to justify more than one or two
workhorse lenses like a 70-200 2.8, but there are many times when such a lens
would come in handy.

P.S. I'm getting an SSL certificate error when I click the link to your blog
page.

~~~
derwiki
Just added St. Louis! You're going to have to sign up and post gear though, if
you want to start the community there. The benefit is that you have a monopoly
on the local market! Email me at adam@cameralends.com if you have any
questions.

I added a ticket to check out the SSL error, thanks for the heads up. For some
reason I don't see it in Chrome, but I do see it in Safari.

------
joering2
To author: I had similar idea couple months ago about the peer-to-peer swap
for expensive/luxury watch owners... if you own expensive watch you can
"exchange" it for couple months or something with someone who has similar
valued watch.

Now that you p2p rent expensive equipment, can you share your worst stories as
well as crucial experience in terms of rental issues one can run into while
operating this sort of startup?

~~~
derwiki
Happy to say that I'm going to disappoint you; I haven't had bad experiences
yet. It's worth mentioning that all rentals to date have happened in San
Francisco and I've personally emailed with all the lenders. I'm currently
looking into insurance options.

------
qq66
I need front page clarification on:

1) What if I rent out my lens and the renter breaks it?

2) What if I rent a lens and I break it?

3) What if I rent a lens and return it safely, but the seller fraudulently
claims that I broke it?

These are questions that eBay has answered to a pretty good extent, given the
limitations of person-to-person commerce. It's essential for a high-value
marketplace like this.

------
postscapes1
Great idea!

A couple of quick thoughts:

\- Add a sign-up form for being notified when new cities come online.

\- I did a sample search
[https://www.cameralends.com/gear?utf8=%E2%9C%93&brand=nikon&...](https://www.cameralends.com/gear?utf8=%E2%9C%93&brand=nikon&component=body&metro=Austin)
and just got a blank page. No other details on what went wrong.

\- A rented "Kit" category option would be helpful. I don't really want to
deal with two separate people/pick-ups/etc on the transaction and would rather
get a body and lens from one person.

------
livestyle
Congrats bro.. You could learn a lot from how AirBnb utilized Craigslist to
get some initial traction.

[http://davegooden.com/2011/05/how-airbnb-became-a-billion-
do...](http://davegooden.com/2011/05/how-airbnb-became-a-billion-dollar-
company/)

and

[http://andrewchen.co/2012/04/27/how-to-be-a-growth-hacker-
an...](http://andrewchen.co/2012/04/27/how-to-be-a-growth-hacker-an-
airbnbcraigslist-case-study/#)

~~~
livestyle
You could also leverage Meetup.com's plethora of camera groups for supply side
demand.

------
marknutter
Does "weekend project" mean a project that you work on when you have free time
or does it literally mean "built in one weekend"?

~~~
derwiki
Free time :) Sorry if it was a misleading title.

~~~
marknutter
No problem, I have just never understood what people meant by that on HN. Some
"weekend projects", like yours, would be quite humbling if they truly were
built in one weekend :)

------
altoz
love the concept. a couple of comments:

1\. I would love to post my gear there (I have a bunch of high-end Canon L
lenses), but there's no faq or anything about how I'm protected in case my
equipment gets dropped by the person I rent to. What happens, for example, if
my equipment gets stolen?

2\. How do I get paid? Is it a bank deposit? Cash? Bitcoins?

If you want more listings, you should make the process of lending easy and
safe.

~~~
rickyc091
I was looking for this info as well and I found some answers in the terms +
services.

1) You can redeem up to $5000 for your equipment. Basically their credit card
will be on file and if something happens you can claim it.

I couldn't find anything on the payout sides of things.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
That's a lot of risk to carry as a lendee (lessee?). I'd probably want to
insure against that risk if possible.

Also how are you checking that the lendee's CC can cover the amount of the
current equipment value?

------
nlh
Looks cool! Congrats and good luck.

One issue - site doesn't appear to be rendering properly on an iPad (using
Chrome as browser):

[http://imgur.com/m6TvEt7](http://imgur.com/m6TvEt7)

I suggest eschewing the whole responsive thing when it comes to tablets --
just get the desktop version rendering on a tablet and it'll look great.

Keep it up and keep us posted.

~~~
derwiki
Good call, I've just made a ticket to grid the boxes into 2x2 (desktop is 1x4,
phone is 4x1).

------
swalsh
If I rent to someone will you sell me insurance on the item in case they
damage/thieve the camera?

Edit: Can you add Boston too :D

~~~
derwiki
As mentioned in other responses, CameraLends will replace the lender's
equipment if anything goes awry. Just added Boston! You'll have to post gear
there to kickstart the community though :)

------
peapod91
You should look into adding Pentax. There is tons of old Pentax gear out there
with unparalleled backwards compatibility. Also, pentaxforums is a great
community where I think you could easily pick up a lot of new users and gear.

~~~
derwiki
Added Pentax, thanks for the suggestion!

------
Macsenour
Glad to see this continuing and growing. I remember making a comment a few
months ago. I noticed one thing,that might not be YOU... "Weekend in SF" was
priced per week. Is there no weekend pricing?

------
sologoub
No SoCal?

Was thinking of renting some gear to try it out before buying. (Might be a
cool ad strategy you could eventually work with brands, kind of a try-before-
buy approach.)

~~~
briandear
Canon Professional Services (and Nikon Professional Services) does a similar
thing, however to get into CPS, it took me quit a bit of work back in the day
(tearsheets, credential letters, etc.) However by looking at using this site
as an analog for CPS, but for "normal" people, you might have a hit on your
hands, especially with the serious amateurs who don't have the credits to get
into CPS (or similar programs.)

Manufacturer partnerships would be the key to blowing this up. The straight
peer-to-peer might work, but most pros with decent gear are going to take some
serious convincing to loan their gear out. Things like lens alignment for
example, are pretty hard to detect, so it isn't as easy as AirBnB to determine
"damage." I also suspect the insurance requirements might be pretty difficult.

Good luck! Great idea.

~~~
sologoub
Yeah, for hobbyists with no credentials, the CPS/similar programs are a no-go.

------
chasb
I remember this. Congrats, and keep it up.

------
nileshtrivedi
I'm wondering: Could something like this work for musical instruments /
recording equipment?

~~~
nicolasd
I think so… of course not for every instrument (eg. windinstruments). What I
think could be the problem is that musicians really "love" their instruments.
I am a drummer and I don't even like it if someone I know plays a gig with my
drumkit. But that's only my opinion.

~~~
phurley
Trust me photographer's really love their cameras :-)

------
frozenport
How will you verify that the water tight camera case remains water tight after
repeated use?

~~~
derwiki
Cop out on this one: it's my girlfriend's, so I'll just have to keep a close
eye on it!

------
booruguru
This is a very clever idea. But how do you plan to promote/scale the business?

------
amwelles
I'd love to see the Triangle (Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill) added!

~~~
derwiki
Already have gear there!
[https://www.cameralends.com/gear?utf8=%E2%9C%93&brand=any&co...](https://www.cameralends.com/gear?utf8=%E2%9C%93&brand=any&component=any&metro=Raleigh%2FDurham)

------
gsibble
Just posted some equipment on there. Keep up the great work!

------
ivanbrussik
dude, now this is a great idea. karma karma karma

------
MartinCron
Still no Seattle? You're breaking my heart.

~~~
derwiki
Just created it. Want to be the first to post gear there?

~~~
MartinCron
Absolutely. Will do.

------
samp615
Love it

