
Estonia – the Skype effect - tagawa
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36286157
======
gregdoesit
I can completely agree with this article. I've worked at Skype, and now I see
many of my ex-colleagues having large impact at other startups and tech
companies - some Estonian, some international. Transferwise. Twillio.
Pipedrive. Fleep. Just a few ones where ex Estonian Skypers and their network
have a huge impact. Twillio and Transferwise are two good international
examples who did this and have had excellent results - the Tallin offices
producing some of the best engineering outputs globally.

Almost every talented Skype engineer I know of has joined either a new
startup, or a promising tech company with European offices. And many of them
have not moved from Tallin - having these companies open offices here, and
hire more locals, who the seniors then mentor and train.

It's incredible what effect a single company - Skype - has had to the tech
community for all of Estonia.

~~~
bogomipz
I am curious is the lingua franca English in the office generally? I find it
amusing that Estonia's weather was mentioned here, is the winter in Tallin
worse than Stockholm or Berlin? Also poor connections? Is that train only?
Certainly Ryan Air flies there no?

Are salaries on par with the rest of Europe?

~~~
jnthn
Yes, in tech it's pretty safe to take English as the lingua franca here.

Connections - we do indeed have Ryanair and easyJet but not that many
destinations. Tallinn Airport has a good list[1] of what's available directly.

Salaries - we at Teleport (with deep Skype roots as well) just launched a
salary comparison tool[2] this week, hope it helps to get an overview of
salaries but also costs.

[1] [http://www.tallinn-airport.ee/en/flight-
info/destinations/](http://www.tallinn-airport.ee/en/flight-
info/destinations/) [2]
[https://teleport.org/salaries/](https://teleport.org/salaries/)

~~~
bogomipz
Thanks for the links, what's the Visa policy?

~~~
sccxy
There is website called Work in Estonia[1],

I guess there is more specific information for different backgrounds.

[1] [http://www.workinestonia.com/coming-to-
estonia/](http://www.workinestonia.com/coming-to-estonia/)

~~~
bogomipz
Thanks

------
rhodin
> Estonia has quite a few disadvantages - a tiny home market, a winter that
> seems to go on forever (although the weather was lovely for our visit), and
> poor connections with the rest of Europe.

The weather? Sweden and Finland both have longer winters and it has not
stopped them. Poor connections? Estonians are everywhere (London, NYC, SF) and
their tech companies are all "global first", with investors from around the
world and targeting the global market directly.

~~~
uola
Yeah, I think the weather trope is getting old. Winters are fairly mild in the
Baltic region and most people would prefer below freezing over rainy and windy
anyway. It's not even the winter as such that gets to you, but the darkness.

Estonia isn't really comparable to Sweden and Finland though, mostly because
of history and size. I want Estonia to become a tech hub, but realistically
it's not currently that big of a player.

~~~
sliverstorm
Perhaps it's a trope because the computer business basically originated in
California, which is famed for its good weather.

------
elorant
You know, a winter that lasts forever doesn't sound such a bad thing after all
in terms of productivity. I live in Greece and every year when the summer
approaches the last thing I want is staying inside and code.

~~~
clamprecht
Maybe, but you'd have to reconcile that with California's good productivity
and good weather.

~~~
lmm
SF specifically is notorious for its mild climate, no? Average high in July
(the hottest month) is 23 degrees. Compare that with e.g. 31 for DC or 34 for
Athens.

~~~
MrMullen
"The worst winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco" \-- Mark Twain

~~~
informatimago
That was the summer following a volcanic eruption, indeed, it snowed during
that summer!

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer)

also: While usually attributed to him, the actual source of these words is
unknown and there is no evidence that Mark Twain ever said this.

------
DyslexicAtheist
Estonia totally puzzles me. The first time I ever met anyone from there was
when I attended a Linux conference in Singapore in 1999. What puzzled me was
that there was representatives of many countries businesses of course but the
density of Estonian company was totally mind blowing. A country with just
about 1.2 mio people and here they are with quite a lot of companies
representing their passion for Open Source. Also 4/5 from them were selling
infosec products like VPN solutions and firewalls etc. But it shows that there
was already something fundamentally right with how open they are in their mind
towards adopting technology (e-citizenship etc, ... and the ease it is to open
and run a business there)

There is no doubt that Skype had a massive impact as a role model to form a
strong local entrepreneurial identity and pride. But what I want to say is
that Skype was already in the right place to start with.

~~~
glasz
i'll tell you why: they've been one of the first countries in the eu to push
digital infrastructure and ftth since around 2000. you'd be astounded what big
pile of clusterfuck germany's infrastructure is, by comparison.

ftth is far away because deutsche telekom is eager to grab subsidies, squeeze
every bit out of copper and customers, and not get out of their bloody way.

------
dannylandau
Have worked with a few Estonians, and Seasonal Affective Disorder appears to
be pretty prominent. One of the developers stopped working all of a sudden,
and had to relocate to Thailand to get more sunlight.

~~~
bogomipz
I think theres another name for the affliction characterized by a sudden
impulse to relocate to a beach in southern Thailand : )

------
bunkydoo
Interesting, I think it's a good thing to see people at least trying to avoid
the clichés of starting up in silicon valley or NYC. Even the US for that
matter, it's only gonna help the world economy if people say "hey, I can make
the best of things right here" instead of thinking they NEED to be a US based
startup company

~~~
cheez
Having been in a "ho-hum that's nice" environment and a "let's murder the
competition" environment, I would say it goes beyond THINKING you NEED to be a
US based startup company.

The fact of the matter is that your environment defines who you are, as a
person. Why would that not matter for your company?

Can the environment be replicated somewhere else? Sure, with the right amount
of luck. But people who think environment doesn't matter are fooling
themselves.

------
lucb1e
> Estonia has quite a few disadvantages - [...] a winter that seems to go on
> forever

Awesome. In the Netherlands it's currently 23 degrees and it's already too
warm. I'm dreading the approach of July.

~~~
sccxy
Temperature is not the problem.

Lack of sunlight from October till February is depressing.

~~~
stevekemp
Agreed. I've never been depressed in my life, then I moved to Finland!

Seriously though, my first winter was rough, and despite how obvious it was,
despite how much I'd heard about it, it took me a long time to recognize the
symptoms of not wanting to do anything, and not being productive.

I'm sure now I know what to look for things will be better in the future..

------
smitherfield
Yeah, I'm with the article's author; those delivery bots won't last 5 minutes
in most American or European cities once people understand what they are.

~~~
sccxy
Do you know that there are things full of cash called ATMs?

Yeah, some robots will be stolen in the beginning, but they are filled with
all kind of sensors & cameras.

You'll be caught pretty quickly.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
They're secured to buildings, pretty much immobile, usually have CCTV covering
them (in the UK at least) ... but they still get stolen occasionally, eg
ripped out the wall using heavy plant (diggers and such).

------
floopidydoopidy
And now they're just spyware for Microsoft.

------
floopidydoopidy
And now it's just more spyware for Microsoft.

