
What sugar does to your brain - piotrkaminski
http://www.theage.com.au/interactive/2017/what-sugar-does-to-your-brain/
======
RobertRoberts
I took a memory course (audio tapes) many years ago. One of the suggestions by
the presenter was to not drink any coffee or alcohol or eat any white flour or
white sugar before listening to each course.

I obeyed this rule for a few tapes, but then around the 4th tape, I said
"phooey to that", and ate a bag of peanut m&m's before doing a course.

The difference in my attention span was so striking, I instantly became a
believer in the adverse affects of white sugar on memory. I could not keep my
focus on the course. My mind wandered like a 2 year old in a toy shop. Every
idea that popped into my head distracted me from listening and focusing on the
material.

As an aside, I had already learned to memorize all 52 cards in a deck and
could do memory tricks with names and various lists. So I wasn't a memory newb
when taking this course.

~~~
paulsutter
In a proper experiment, another group would be told they will perform better
if they eat candy, and are not given candy until the 4th tape

~~~
RobertRoberts
Sure, but this is life, and since everyone has intimate knowledge of their own
bodies, they have a massive database to compare past experience with. So it's
not the same as any old random experiment when you test with your own life.

~~~
dekhn
it's worse than any random experiment because it is incredibly prone to a
widely known set of biases, which is precisely what experiments try to
correct. basically, self-experimentation is incredibly prone to false
positives and negatives.

~~~
RobertRoberts
Well try it yourself then. If you get a good/bad effect, are you saying that
it's a pure placebo affect?

I have a family, and we don't eat refined sugars. That is the one limitation
on diet I have added for us. (besides some religious requirements) And guess
how often my kids are sick? Almost never. I mean a slight cough every couple
years.

You can make claims either way with any experience. But I had ear aches, pink
eye, sore throats, flu, (one summer I was sick all 3 months of break) athletes
foot, migraines, gas and cramps. I'd wake up delerious from fevers and
vomitting. Frequent and regular coughs and colds. This was my entire
childhood.

I gave up eating crappy food, and I haven't had a sore throat in about 15
years. And when I did, it was because I was drinking too much coffee and not
getting sleep. I lowered my coffee intake, got rest and hydrated. And no more
sore throat.

A doctor will say they are "unrelated", but I have years of testing and
proving they are not unrelated. If you get sick and are in a hospital, they
give you white bread and jello.

But recently, this is beginning to change. A number of people have told me
that their doctors have warned them about eating white sugar now, how is
damages arteries and causes other problems.

So, yes, you are correct, that known biases can affect things. But the truth
is hard to deny. Try it yourself, see how well you focus when eating
vegetables or unprocessed food of any kind vs junk food.

There's a story of a Wisconsin based school for boys (it's like a juvey hall
or something) and they removed all the processed food, pop, etc... from their
diets, hired an expensive chef to cook good food for them, and across the
board, behaviour improved.

My story convinced me, it's not "purely scientific" but I _knew_ the
difference was there. Refined sugar messed with my ability to focus.

~~~
jjeaff
Myself and my family pretty much never get sick either. But we have a massive
sweet tooth. Lots of ice cream and baked goods and candy.

~~~
RobertRoberts
Yep, and it doesn't adversely affect some people as much as others. Some
people can smoke daily until they are 90.

But the truth is coming out about how it adversely affects most people.

------
ramshanker
I learned from some random comment on Hacker News in the past. "For any of the
food recipe, you read on internet, just halve the quantity of sugar, and the
food would still taste good".

Turns out it was a totally valid advice. I have been following it since than.

~~~
mrfusion
I wonder how quartering the sugar would taste?

~~~
chiefalchemist
Probably fine, provided you trained your tongue and brain to not be so sweet
driven.

For example, I don't (read: close to can't) drink full strengh juice or sports
drinks. I cut them with approx 75% water. I can't imagine how people don't do
this.

BTW, I a couple weeks ago I noticed the "one third the sugar" grape juice
looks to be nothing other than regular grape juice with water added. Imagine
that, same price, one-third the actual product. Great work if you can get it.

~~~
beagle3
I noticed a similar thing with "reduced sugar squeezed orange juice" which is
50% added water and some Vitamin C.

------
chiefalchemist
> "It often happens in the afternoon when your brain, which runs on sugar,
> starts to get hungry."

This moment isn't the problem per se. The brain's need for fuel is a
legitimate biological process. The real problem is the generally poor
attention to diet outside of the window. Juice for breakfast. Soda with lunch,
dinner and late night. Cookies for snacks. Let's not forget sugar being added
to (processed) food even when it's not necessary. Etc. These have all been
normalized. Cookies for breakfast? Sure. No problem.

So what came first, the sugar addiction or the classic (shite) First World
(mostly processed food) diet? I'd argue it's the latter. We've over-reinforced
neuro paths to an unhealthy level. And we've made that a social norm as well.
The brain isn't designed for such a relentless assault.

~~~
skydv
everywhere i go, i got fed with cookies and candies. everywhere i see children
eating ice cream and sweets. I bet we will remember these dark times one day
but right now the state of the ignorance is staggering

~~~
chiefalchemist
And that ignorance is an accomplice in the every increasing cost of
healthcare. Talking about healthcare without talking about health is silly.
Yet that's what we do.

~~~
skydv
iiuc simple carbs are main reason of three big ones, heart problems, cancer
and diabetes. Seen more research linking it. And no one is talking about yet

~~~
chiefalchemist
Please allow me to clarify just a bit: No one mainstream in a position of
power/influence is talking about it.

Sure we got ACA but that was only half the opportunity. The other half was
telling the American people The Truth about their diet/lifestyle, and how that
effects the cost of healthcare (to say nothing about the quality of life).

The problem is, that kind of honesty doesn't fare well with voters. It's also
not good for business: Big Pharma, Food Inc., etc.

As far as I can tell, yet is going to be around for a long time.

------
kstenerud
> They found that the volunteers who regularly ate a high-fat, high-sugar diet
> were much more likely to crave snack foods even when they weren’t hungry.

> The scientists suggest the high-sugar and fat diet was actually impairing
> the ability of the brain to block food cravings.

It's a shame they didn't separate high fat from high sugar diets. Fats aren't
addictive, nor are they anywhere near as damaging as sugars and carbs in high
doses.

~~~
nlperguiy
I do not believe 2000kcal of beans is in any way damaging, yet it's mostly
carbs, water and protein with a bunch of nice micronutrients.

Eating diverse food that has a high volume to calories ratio will keep anyone
satiated.

~~~
0x445442
I've lost 75 lbs over the last 18 months by simply limiting all carbs as much
as practical so my inclination is to not attribute the weight loss to a
specific type of carb reduction. But it would be interesting to control for
different types of carbs to test your hypothesis.

~~~
nlperguiy
I'm pretty sure you lost weight by reducing number of calories.

For example, consuming 2000kcal of refined sugar and 2000kcal of beans will
result in different calories absorbed given that 2000kcal of beans requires
much more energy to digest than sugar liquid.

Some metabolic disorders skew the absorption.

------
red75prime
> But if you find you can’t resist that craving for a chocolate bar don’t be
> ashamed

Shame correlates with activation of ventral striatum which plays a role in a
formation of addiction. Shouldn't it be "You better be ashamed."?

~~~
posterboy
Don't conflate shame and discomfort. Shame is a social function and the advice
is to acknowledge a common problem that is not individually isolated. Your own
health, not just secondary responsibility should be the primary driving
factor. You need encouragement to overcome an addiction.

In effect, you should solve the issue as soon as possible so you wont have a
reason to feel ashamed, but since its a long process you shouldn't be
surprised if someone takes the chance for an insult, which ideally should only
reinforce the idea and give you a chance to share your insights instead of
hiding the issue.

Edit: "shame" comes from Proto-Germanic skamō, from Proto-Indo-European ḱem-
(“cover, shroud”).
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shame#Etymology_1](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shame#Etymology_1)

------
spodek
Of the various addictive refined powders from plants, for most purposes, I
don't differentiate much between cocaine, heroin, and sugar. There are plenty
of differences, but none as important as the similarities. Each gives you an
up followed by a down. People who take more of each than they want tend to
give similar excuses that I would never want to hear myself saying.

The main difference I think of is that sugar ruins a lot more lives and leads
to far more early deaths.

------
matonias
I used to eat a rich-sugar morning breakfast a year ago, containing Nutella,
peanutbutter, lemonade etc. Once I started cutting down on that breakfast, I
noticed I was eating less sugar during the day. Sugar triggers the need for
more sugar. So try cutting it down ;)

~~~
zoul
Unsweetened peanut butter contains 20% carbs and only 10% sugar, but 25%
proteins. Looks like sane food to me? (I eat loads of it, so I hope so :)

~~~
woodandsteel
%10 refined sugar is still too much. The best level is zero or very close to
it.

------
fpoling
According to the article it is not sugar, but high-fat, high-sugar meals that
do most of the harm. That is cakes and similar.

~~~
Robadob
The article regularly conflates high sugar, with weight gain (aka calorific
surplus). So it's hard to draw any useful conclusions from it.

~~~
always_good
Funny, that's exactly what the sugar industry has been trying to push into the
public hivemind: Don't worry about sugar intake, just calories -- they're all
the same.

Not surprised to see it on HN, they are very successful at having us do their
bidding for them under cute and worthless platitudes like "calories in,
calories out."

------
agumonkey
What about non nutrient addiction path ways ? such as twitter / facebook ? any
one knows research about hippocampus and social networks ?

Also I do believe that I have multithreading addiction. I can't stop switching
tabs whenever I'm bored (internet zapping).

~~~
abledon
[https://ww2.kqed.org/forum/2017/12/15/dr-robert-lustig-on-
th...](https://ww2.kqed.org/forum/2017/12/15/dr-robert-lustig-on-the-hacking-
of-the-american-mind/)

This guys an md then got a law degree to investigate how we’re affected by
what your saying , and how govt doesn’t regulate it

~~~
spicymaki
Dr Lustig is also a contributor to this site:
[http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/hidden-in-plain-
sight/](http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/hidden-in-plain-sight/)

