

Why do microwaves all have different controls? - coloneltcb
http://jf.posterous.com/why-do-microwaves-all-have-different-controls

======
hatfieej
I can speak a little from my experience in electronics at GE Appliances. I
hated most of interfaces we put on things, but that wasn't my call to make in
engineering. I seriously doubt it's a patent thing. Note that we didn't make
microwaves -- we outsourced them. There aren't a lot of companies that make
them any more. Competition is primarily on price. You want to keep costs low
-- R&D, development, manufacture and warranty. Justifying an increase of
pennies per unit is tough in that environment if you can't prove a direct
increase in sales. Think of decisions being made with the mindset that you
don't get promoted by increasing the cost 50 cents per board. ;)

------
uiri
The problem with that explanation is that half of those patents were filed in
the 1970s or 1980s and should be expired by now. So go through the expired
ones and so long as you don't infringe on the newer patents then it is ok to
use it royalty free. That is the whole point of the patent after all - once it
expires, everyone can benefit from the invention, not just the inventor and
his/her customers.

------
intelliot
When I was attending the University of Southern California, I learned that
Steven Sample, president of the University, has "patents in the field of
digital appliance controls that have been licensed to practically every major
manufacturer of appliance controls and microwave ovens in the world. More than
300 million home appliances have been built using his inventions."

I have no idea whether patents are the reason for the differing controls, but
I just thought I'd share this interesting fact.

------
yareally
From my experience, ovens these days are not any easier to use control wise.

For example, I have to press a separate cancel button for the oven timer and
to turn the oven off. How many times would you want to keep the timer on, but
turn the oven off? My parents oven from the early 90s did turn off both and I
didn't realize how useful such small things were until you lose them. I think
interfaces for kitchen appliances have gotten worse in many cases since then.

For my microwave (a Samsung), I have to explicitly hit the timer button to
start the timer for it (not to cook, just the timer), instead of just typing
the the time and pressing start. Also, the start button does not work, I must
push an explicit timer on/off button. Just ridiculous.

The microwave does have an "add 30 seconds timer." However, if I want to use
it after checking to see if my food is hot enough, I have to hit the start
button to turn the microwave back on first and then hit "add 30 seconds." Just
drives me crazy as the 30 second button should turn it back on as well. My old
microwave (an LG) did have this functionality and I miss it.

I only assume the designers of these appliances assumed that being as brutally
explicit as possible would help those that have issues with technology more,
but I think it has the opposite effect.

------
noonespecial
What I wonder is why when I buy a microwave, I'm stuck with _just one_ set of
controls.

My HVAC gives me a choice of thermostats. There's a standard "API" for talking
with HVAC's over a few wires and I choose my interface. If I'm feeling all
Star-Trek, I get a NEST. If I just want something simple, I can get a gizmo
with a slider, a spring, and a mercury switch that was made in the 60's from a
thrift store.

Now that touch screens are ubiquitous and practically free, (and in my pocket
all the time) why I'm I stuck with some ridiculous amalgamation of knobs and
buttons that seems to have no thought at all given to usability. Would it be
so much harder to include a simple default that could be re-flashed, replaced,
or augmented?

Its not just microwaves, mind you. Cable set top boxes have been reliably
irritating me for decades. I posted a rant, complete with tech demo a few
weeks back. Here's how I want the world to work:

<http://www.thesinglestep.org/thoughts/qrcontrol/>

------
monochromatic
I know that hating on patents for being the cause of all the world's ills is
hip these days... but this is about the worst submission I've ever seen on the
HN front page.

1\. The author has lumped a bunch of utility and design patents together
without apparently realizing that they aren't at all the same.

2\. Many of these patents have expired.

3\. There's no discussion _whatsoever_ of why he thinks patents are to blame
here. Just "I wonder why this is... I BET IT'S PATENTS."

4\. Given the other painfully obvious issues with this post, I hesitate to
mention it, but... come on, people. Look at the fucking claims. If you can't
be bothered to even mention the claims, you have no business making wild
assertions about patents. It just looks ridiculous and ignorant.

~~~
ChuckMcM
I have to agree with this, I think its a reasonable hypothesis that patents
are the issue but doing the legwork then to figure out if in fact they are
involved should be pretty straight forward.

That said, I don't think the author of the post cares all that much, looks
like they are just speculating. Which brings us to the question of why is it
on the front page?

My hypothesis for that is that people vote it up hoping that others who
understand the patent system will comment and either validate or invalidate
the author's hypothesis, thus completing the thought. The only way to prevent
such abuse is to flag the link which doesn't capture a lot of nuance.

Of course I can't do the legwork on my hypothesis without doing a poll,
doesn't look like polls have been re-enabled and frankly I don't know how
accurate such a poll would be.

------
ffk
A few ideas come to mind... In no order of importance.

* Obscure and unused functionality complicating the device? (What do you get when you combine a microwave and a computer? A computer! [thnx Alan Cooper])

* Patents on the physical interface forcing competitors to use different designs (covered in article)

* Physical interfaces different to differentiate themselves from competitors

* Marketing scheme to make a device look more powerful than last year's model by following modern trends (usually towards more complexity)

* Actual innovations in microwave UI design (does sometime happen)

I'm sure I missed some. Anyone want to point out more?

~~~
breckenedge
Desire to create something new rather than re-use existing design.

~~~
ffk
I can definitely see that. A creative opportunity for fun or profit. :)

------
JD557
Serious question: Is there a "mute" button in any of those patents?

Even though microwaves keep getting control panels with more buttons, they
never seem to get rid of the annoying "beep" everytime you press a button. It
just seems like a counter incentive to use the microwave extra options.

Microwaves are not the only appliance that does that... I just replaced my
washing machine the other day and now it just beeps for every reason (also,
I'm pretty sure the beep makes the same sound as coins in super mario, which
feels kind of weird).

Why is this? What's wrong with just having a beep when the food is ready (or
maybe not even that) like in the older microwaves? Is it to help blind people?
If so, wouldn't the old rotary knob be better?

~~~
ihsw
Personally I've gotten quite good at estimating when the microwave is under 10
and stopping it right at 1, however I've never seen anyone else resort to this
behavior so I feel awkward about it.

~~~
noonespecial
I do it all the time. I'm so OCD about it, I even do it before other people's
food is about to beep.

------
jere
The same reason Android devices and PCs come with bloatware.

Because some executive somewhere can't stand the thought that they are selling
a box which converts electricity into useful work, is indistinguishable from
the competitor's product, and hasn't really changed in decades.

~~~
fragsworth
Did you even read the article?

Besides, bloatware doesn't exist for your reason anyway. Bloatware exists
entirely because software developers will pay hardware manufacturers lots of
money to put their product in front of new users.

~~~
jere
Yes, I did. I know that's the main reason for bloatware, but the
justification, the part that lets them sleep at night, is that they are adding
value with their shitty software:

>The preloaded apps “highlight the key features and performance” of the
Vibrant, says a Samsung representative.They are there are to showcase the
phone’s processor and display, a T-Mobile spokesperson told Wired.com.

[http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/bloatware-android-
pho...](http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/bloatware-android-phones/)

------
lessnonymous
While we're talking about Microwave UX .. what is "High, Medium, Low"?? My
current microwave is 1200W. My first was 800W.

A 1200W microwave should have settings 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 and an 800W
microwave would be missing the 100W and 1200W settings.

That way, my mac-n-cheese would say "Cook on 1000W for 5 minutes" and it would
work on EVERY microwave.

~~~
theatrus2
Magnetrons don't work that way sadly - you can't easily change their design
power. This is why the microwave power setting is fractional time based.

~~~
lessnonymous
Which is why I didn't designate them as 600W, but just '600'. It's a standard
which means your food will get hit with the equivalent of half the energy of
your 1200W microwave. (Which, in most cases, is 50% on + 50% off. Which my
current microwave calls "Medium" maybe?)

------
tbirdz
Honestly this hasn't been my experience with microwaves at all. To cook
something for 1:30, I just press "1" "3" "0" and then start. Maybe I've gotten
lucky, but every microwave I've used has the number keypad and a start button.

~~~
noonespecial
Mine makes you find and press a "cook time" button before you can enter a
time, then a start button to actually start the cooking.

This button is hidden so well that years later, I still have to look for it.
Grrr.

~~~
Evbn
And unlike the cook timer, the just-time timer beep doesn't stop when you
press Stop. You must press the timer again.

------
ams6110
Honestly, the best microwave control panel I ever used was a simple rotary
knob to set the time, and a three-way "high-medium-low" power switch. Covered
95% of use cases with absolutely no confusion.

~~~
hahainternet
Most modern microwaves seem to have the common functionality of 30 seconds at
high power if you just hit start with no other options. At least in my small
sample size.

~~~
jrajav
This, and the ability to add or remove 10 seconds from the current time (while
it's on), are the two main features I consider indispensable on a microwave
apart from the time entry.

~~~
Evbn
Tog on Interfaces or someone has a classic rant on this topic. The correct way
to use the number pad on a microwave is usually: Press 1 1 1 Start. It is
never correct to press more than one digit button.

