
Rock Hurling Is Old Nemesis of Train Crews - joshrotenberg
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/us/projectile-problem-goes-beyond-amtrak-train-and-philadelphia.html
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moron4hire
This is why I moved out of Philadelphia. Not at all surprised. If this turns
out to be true, nobody will be.

And just another wonderful example of why news organizations shouldn't print
the names of people thought to be at fault until they learn the truth. Mayor
Nutter had been saying some nasty things about this conductor and I'm sure a
lot of people have picked up on it and have decided for themselves he killed
those seven people. We don't know yet what happened. It was irresponsible
journalism to print his name.

~~~
maxerickson
The media is incredibly ghoulish.

The mayor's comments aside, I think there is some balancing act, keeping a
name out of the rumor mill is more or less impossible, so disclosing a name
allows things like the police focusing on protecting one person (rather than
trying to figure out who needs protection), and for a lawyer to credibly make
statements on behalf of the person.

In some sense the problem is that society is capricious and reactionary, the
behavior of the media just reflects that.

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noisy_boy
It is quite common in India to have rocks/pebbles hurled at the trains by
kids, basically as a source of amusement. Mostly happens in rural areas but
I've seen it happen in more urban places as well. I've personally experienced
a pebble bouncing off the window grill and miss my forhead by an inch. I
remember reading about a man dying due to this few years ago but can't find
the source.

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mschuster91
In Munich, some years ago, ALEX trains used to arrive at the station with
bullet holes in the carriages...

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tormeh
Why?

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mschuster91
Can't really find anything, as in 2011 an unrelated shooting (two guys on the
run noticed cops doing a routine check of other guests and decided to shoot
the cops in cold blood; only casualty was one of the guys because he jumped
the train at 100+ kph) happened in an ALEX train and that drowns out the older
stuff in Google.

But if memory serves me right it was some nutcase with an illegal rifle.

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kw71
I take issue with the lack of positive train controls but moreso with the
facts reported in the final paragraph. I was under the impression that
locomotives had dead-man switches. The last paragraph implies that either the
locomotive did not have a deadman switch or that maintaining it becomes so
automatic for the operator that he mindlessly kept it up during his state of
shock.

In light of all the difficulty reported in installing the positive train
controls which rely on trackside signalling equipment, I don't see why a GPS
based train control system is not feasable, or at least one that gives
instructions or sounds alarms in the cab. I'm only a layperson when it comes
to locomotives, but my 2007 model Garmin GPS nav does tell me what speed
limits are on nearly every road and warns me of upcoming turns.

~~~
pm24601
Its more than GPS. Much more than that:

1) which track is the train on? GPS off by a few meters 1 way or the other
means a different track.

2) What are the switch settings ahead?

3) Is there a train stopped ahead?

4) Is there any obstruction ( i.e. rock fall )?

5) Are the crossing gates ahead properly functioning?

6) Are there vehicles across the crossing ahead?

7) What are the normal speed restrictions in place?

8) Are there maintenance workers ahead?

9) Are there temporary speed restrictions in place because of tracks needing
repair?

10) What is the mass of the train? Heavier trains = greater stopping distance.

11) What is the track surface - leaves in the fall can create a biofilm that
increases stopping distance.

12) What is the cargo - some cargo requires more gradual deceleration -
bottles of wine anyone?

13) What about tunnels?

14) What about mountainous terrain with poor line of sight to GPS satellites?

15) What about signals that may interfere with a GPS fix?

16) What about going through cities with buildings and in trenches?

Expanding on a few additional points:

"Where is the train in front of this train"?

a) Its not enough to know where the locomotive is: some freight trains can be
2 miles long. So if the train in front is 2 miles ahead but is a passenger
train - no problem. A freight train? Big problem.

b) Is the train ahead on a siding that the current train will not hit because
the switch is thrown to transfer to another track>

"What is the allowed speed?"

a) Is the train going to take a speed restricted curve?

b) Or continuing straight at a higher speed?

c) How fast can the train decelerate - freight is slower than passenger
trains.

In a car its annoying -but having a train get confused and go into an
emergency stop - that is something else.

Can your Garmin do any of this?

~~~
btown
All true points, but even though almost all of your points need to be solved
to have fully automated speed control, they are _not_ necessary if all you
want to do is put an upper-bound on the speed of a train as it goes through a
curve. Is there possibly a curve coming up? Slow the train down unless you
have positive confirmation from fail-fast instrumentation that you're on a
straightaway track and that all other trains nearby are accounted for. It
doesn't prevent all accidents, but it prevents some, and it might have
prevented this one.

The article indicates that there are difficulties rolling out a full-service
speed control system. Perhaps this tragedy will encourage them to roll out
their bugfixes as they're implemented to whatever machines can accept them,
rather than waiting for the entire release cycle to complete!

~~~
pm24601
Different environment here. A partial rollout can be deadly as well. Its worse
than asking Boeing to do a "partial" rollout of aviation software.

But its much more than just software - its hardware and different kinds of
hardware as well.

Its also multiple different railroading companies from all across the country,
with 1000s of locomotives. For example, a UP locomotive may be attached to a
cross-continental train in Oakland and end up on the NEC 8 days later.

That UP locomotive would need to have the PTC hardware and software installed.

Using foreign power happens all the time. When a train crosses from one
railroad to another, at most a new crew comes on but the locomotive stays with
the train.

That new crew needs to know how to run the locomotive, there can't be wildly
varying versions of PTC equipment onboard.

Now throw in all the leasing companies that have equipment of varying ages and
abilities to be retrofitted.

And if life isn't complex enough, the NEC has 3 different electrification
systems and a few short line railroads.

Railroading has a heavy, hard-fought focus on safety. Before railroad
companies got really serious about safety - railroading used to be quite
dangerous. They are not going to just "rollout" releases.

And to your statement about "not all of the issues need to be solved".
Actually, yes they do because having trains just down or be slower than needed
because of PTC is not reasonable either.

Consider this, a well functioning railroad has an average car velocity of
about 25 mph. A railroad that is snarled with locomotives badly positioned,
crews going outlaw in the wrong place has a car velocity of 21 mph or so.

Now you are going to throw in some half solution. Not. going. to. happen.

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ZanyProgrammer
In the Bay Area, BART does a pretty good job of fencing off the surrounding
area when its on level ground (because of the danger of the third rail).
There's always a fence with some sort of razor wire on top, and no grade
crossings for people to get in close to the train. I suppose it'd be possible
to shoot at the train or throw objects from nearby buildings, but it'd require
a lot more luck and skill.

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jkot
Hm, and if there is accident and someone needs to get to the train?

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njharman
Most someones responding to train accident have bolt/wire cutters, jaws of
life, etc.

But, yes most random good Samaritans would be impeded. Not sure if that is bad
thing.

~~~
mschuster91
> But, yes most random good Samaritans would be impeded. Not sure if that is
> bad thing.

When dealing with ground-level third rails for power, then absolutely: yes,
this is good. Because unexperienced/panicking people might not know or forget
about the power rail - and in contrast to an overhead line, a rail can carry
_significantly_ more current...

