

Why Introverts Can Make The Best Leaders - nathanh
http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/30/introverts-good-leaders-leadership-managing-personality.html

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Goladus
To the extent that introvert and extrovert, as unfalsifiable subjective
descriptions, really mean anything anyway, it has nothing to do with listening
to people speak.

Listening is simply a conversational skill and has nothing to do with meyers-
briggs personality type. Some people are naturally better at listening and
others aren't. Some people practice and gain skill others do not.

~~~
jeremyw
I would put the purported plus of introverts "listening to people speak" a bit
differently. To generalize, extroverts talk to work through _their own_
thinking. So some/much of what they say is that process in public. As a young
introvert, I often got annoyed at their listening dead zones, until I realized
they were still working through their own patterns as they integrated what
others had to say. In the world of extroverts, introverts do this behind the
scenes.

~~~
Goladus
I don't think the way a person works through their thoughts is closely related
to listening.

There are a number of circumstances under which people fail to listen. Two
common ones are:

1\. One's own speech fills in the entire time leaving no one else a chance to
talk.

2\. One's listening time is wasted mentally preparing what you are going to
say and anticipating an opportunity to say it. So others talk, but you aren't
paying attention.

(1) would be a problem associated with "extraverts" while (2) would be a
problem associated with "introverts." But in fact, if you really got someone
to observe your behavior you might be surprised to find how often you are
guilty of the first. The introvert/extravert labels are somewhat dangerous
models to apply to your own behavior.

~~~
adamc
There is at least one more common pattern, which I would call "half-listening"
-- thinking about something else entirely.

I don't really know what studies there are on this, but the belief that
introverts are better listeners is widespread (just google on "introverts
better listeners" -- compare that to "extroverts better listeners").

~~~
Goladus
True, and again I don't really think the __vert label means much when it comes
to half-listening.

But what does introvert really mean? There's a vague understanding that it's
_a kind of person_ who "directs energy inward to the mind as opposed to
outward to the environment."

Lots of programmers spend a lot of time programming, which is a solitary
activity, so they all think "they are introverts." Just like all these other
people who "are introverts." It's very comforting. But it's lazy.

Most people express both kinds of behavior, and are quite capable of thinking
in different ways. People who become Buddhist monks don't have to be
"introverted people" but they practice what would be described as introverted
behavior. Do they "become introverts" via training? Someone who has spent most
of their life programming can learn to direct energy outward playing soccer.
They can learn to experience the thrill of improvising a story to a crowd,
making it bits as you go based on how you want them to feel about it.

The general assumptions are way too broad. "uncomfortable in social
situations" - Why? Low self-esteem? Maybe it's as simple as bad posture. You
are slouching and don't realize it, this means you have to make a lot of
effort to use your voice. This makes you reluctant to talk and when you do,
your voice is soft and sounds a bit strained and uncomfortable. It's hard for
people to hear you and they don't enjoy listening, so they have to ask you to
repeat yourself, you get frustrated and feel embarassed. So you go home and
say "I don't like social situations." "I must be an introvert." When really
you just need to practice standing up straight and breathing properly.

It could be hundreds of different things depending on the person, and giving
yourself a broad label like "introvert" and "extravert" only interferes with
your ability to understand those things.

------
indiejade
Summary: Introverts make great problem-solvers because they listen more than
they talk. When introverts are able to vocalize or communicate their efficient
problem-solving techniques, they become leaders. A frequent problem that many
introverts have is that all the talkers/extroverts in the room never give them
a chance to properly vocalize their thoughts. The Internet changed the
dynamics a little bit, because introverts are now able to "speak" without
waiting for humdrum lulls in conversation.

 _... the most powerful person in the room is often the most quiet_

Another problem is that extroverts sometimes take credit for the "thoughts" of
introverts (those that have been written before spoken).

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adamc
The article mostly just reiterates the strengths of introverts, which you can
get from reading about Meyers/Briggs personality types or similar sources.
What would have been more interesting would be a comparison of the leadership
styles of introverts vs. extroverts: my hunch is that introverts provide
deeper strategic leadership, but are not as good at things like bolstering
morale. But if anyone has links on this, I'd love to see them. As an introvert
who is often frustrated by the strategic thinking of his own organization, I
find the subject interesting.

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treyp
Even as an introvert, I think that extroverts can sometimes come to the same
well-planned decisions through more of a conversational process, deliberating
out loud and with the help of others.

But the title and point of the article are simply why introverts _can_ make
good leaders, not necessarily why extroverts aren't just as good.

~~~
j_baker
+1 - Extroverts have many strengths that introverts don't have and vice versa.

~~~
derefr
Justify that. All treyp said was that extroverts could make up for their
weaknesses, not that they had any given strengths. It's not that I agree or
disagree with you—but the "+1" implies that you think this is what treyp
meant, when he was establishing a much weaker argument.

~~~
j_baker
Whatever treyp said, _my_ point is that introverts have strengths that
extroverts don't have and vice versa. Thus to say one group is inherently
better at managing than another is wrong.

If I read his comment wrong, then so be it.

 __EDIT __: after reading my initial comment, I realized that it might have
sounded a bit "pro-extrovert" which wasn't my intent. I've edited it to be a
bit more clear.

~~~
treyp
Yeah, so the article is very pro-introvert. I just wanted to point out that I
don't think it's the case that introverts are better at leadership than
extroverts. The article isn't claiming this, but I have a feeling that the HN
audience might up-vote this because that's how they interpret it. I was just
trying to give a friendly reminder that there are different qualities that
make people good leaders. Both of them can excel.

But the article still serves its purpose. In the business world, there's a
tendency to assume you must be extroverted to be a great leader. There's an
assumption that introverts should be doing other things like engineering, that
introverts don't have the "people skills" necessary to be great leaders. The
article makes a good case that this just isn't so.

------
papersmith
What's perfectly whole seems flawed,

but you can use it forever.

What's perfectly full seems empty,

but you can't use it up.

True straightness looks crooked.

Great skill looks clumsy.

Real eloquence seems to stammer.

To be comfortable in the cold, keep moving;

to be comfortable in the heat, keep still;

to be comfortable in the world, stay calm and clear.

\-- Tao Te Ching

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j_baker
"They also use their calm, quiet demeanors to be heard amid all the
organizational noise and chatter. (One thoughtful, reasoned comment in a
meeting can move a group forward by leaps and bounds.)"

I've noticed that this is my greatest strength as an introvert. I tend to not
say that much in meetings, but when I do, people listen. It's gotten to the
point where I rarely have to talk over people.

------
abalashov
Much of the narrative of this article seems to be predicated on the implicit
suggestion that introverts are about substance, deep thoughts, abstraction,
careful consideration, aforethought, judiciousness and balance, and extroverts
mostly about superficial banter and infantile thumb-sucking that passes for
discussion or decisionmaking.

To say the very least that could possibly be said, I think there is zero of
the envisaged correlation here.

------
ct
I think introverts are best leaders only in certain leadership roles.
Leadership roles that require technical and deep thinking seem to better fit
introverts. While leadership roles that are more people facing are better
suited for extroverts.

Bill Gates's introvertness and leadership of driving the technical direction
of Microsoft, while Steve Ballmer's extrovertness of being the sales guy.

~~~
codexon
Bill Gates is "supposedly" an extrovert.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ>

where the e is for extraversion.

~~~
olliesaunders
I don't believe it. I live with an ENTJ.

------
mitko
Is there a good test for being introvert or extrovert? I have always imagined
that an extrovert just has a better ability and finds it easier to express
his/her emotions.

However, the Wikipedia definition sounds more like a description of
egoist/altruist:

Introversion is _"the state of or tendency toward being wholly or
predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life"_.

Extraversion is _"the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned
with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self"_

~~~
jasonfried
I've found this piece describes introverts well. Definitely resonated with me
(a definite introvert): <http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch>

~~~
alanthonyc
Awesome article.

"[introverts]...tend to think before talking, whereas extroverts tend to think
by talking, _which is why their meetings never last less than six hours."_

I can definitely be pretty active at parties and stuff, but this is something
that I've learned to do as I realized how being my "natural" self turns people
off. I guess you can say that my social stamina is low and I need to rest more
than extroverts do.

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antirez
I don't buy this. At work I used to have tons of problems with people that
communicates little. The ability to communicate _fast_ and the ability to use
the right words to make clear what you mean is vital.

Also instead to do useless work because you can't just tell in five seconds if
this is going to be OK sucks. A lot of wasted work. I think that the ability
to communicate well is very important IMHO, and it's unrelated to being
introverts or extroverts as far as I can tell.

~~~
j_baker
I'm not sure I understand your point. You're saying that an article claiming
that introverts have strengths that can make them good leaders is invalid
because people need communication skills. But then you claim that that's not
really related to introversion/extroversion?

~~~
antirez
No my claim is that extrovert / introvert matters zero. It's just a matter of
communication skills that's very different being intro/extroverts.

But, whatever the reason is for some kind of guy to talk too little, it's a
huge problem at work.

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bh23ha
_It has been reported that a full 40% of executives describe themselves as
introverts..._ Doesn't this disprove the claim that introverts are best
leaders? What metric of best are we using and where's the hard data?

~~~
j_baker
I wasn't aware that there _was_ a metric of who's a better leader. I suppose
we're also going to need more metrics for who's friendlier or has the best
idea?

~~~
bh23ha
Oh well then I guess we'll just have to give up on empiricism.

