
This Professor only has a PhD degree - formatjam
http://www.earthsciences.hku.hk/index.php/people/profile/42
======
buro9
I have an MSc in Computer Science but lack a BSc or A-levels.

I was homeless and sleeping rough when my peers were in secondary education, I
was living in squats and hitch-hiking around the UK when they were in
university.

Being self-taught, I applied for the MSc after 15 years experience as it was a
source of personal anxiety for me to lead large technical projects in which
almost every other person was highly educated (MSc or PhD) and those that were
not had a BSc. I felt a constant career vertigo in my position, due to not
feeling sure in my abilities.

During the MSc I struggled with revision technique and exam skills, having
never sat any before. But where I was weak at exams I frequently scored above
95% for coursework, research projects and coding tests.

Mostly I felt that the MSc taught me the language with which to communicate
and argue the things I already knew.

When I completed the MSc I reflected that I would've been more competent at a
PhD than the MSc. But I didn't know in advance how I would fare at the MSc and
that a PhD might interest me. Mostly I was just 'checking boxes' to improve
confidence in my existing work, but I found myself very seriously debating
whether I wanted to pursue a PhD when I got to the end of the MSc. I really
enjoyed the research work in the MSc.

~~~
bane
_Mostly I felt that the MSc taught me the language with which to communicate
and argue the things I already knew._

That's a fascinating story and a great perspective. One thing that's hard to
communicate with those who've decided to pass up on higher education is how
many different (and different kinds) of tools it gives you in your field.

It's not just the theoretical bits, or the formalism, but also the _language_
of the field...something which has a surprising number of uses beyond just
talking to a peer. A decade after my undergrad, I'll be working on a problem
and remember a handful of possible algorithms from my undergrad days that
might apply to it, but have no clue about the particulars (they may have not
even been covered). But because I learned the _language_ of the subject, I can
usually drive into google for an hour or so and quickly triage the algorithms
to find the one I want to relearn. It's easy to look things up when you know
what they are called -- and more importantly can understand the instructions!

I have a number of friends who decided to focus purely on their development
skills and skip school, and they've definitely expressed frustration at
finding and understanding the literature, or have spent many hours reinventing
the wheel because they didn't realize it had already been built!

~~~
scott_s
This is commonly characterized as "knowing what you don't know." You know
what's out there, even if you don't _know_ it, but the power is that when you
need to, you can learn it.

Contrast this with _not_ knowing what you don't know. You can't learn it,
because you don't even know it exists. I think this is a major benefit of an
undergraduate education. You get a broad enough exposure to a field that you
know what's out there, so you know what's possible.

------
derrida
As did Wittgenstein <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittgenstein> who was an
engineering drop out and wrote the Tractatus whilst a WW1 PoW in Italy, only
to be given a PhD as an afterthought by Russell. I have known of an academic
in a teaching and research position at a major university who did not complete
high-school & was hired based on the merit of their published papers.

These are of course the very small minority to the general rule.

There are also cases of it working the other-way: PhDs that have made a
lifelong contribution to their field without an academic post. Paul Erdős
comes to mind... the most prolific mathematician of all time (by number of
published papers) was a vagabond. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erdos>

(Interesting fact: both Wittgenstein and Erdős were disciples of the thought
of Frank P. Ramsey: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_P._Ramsey> I am
finding it hard to discover which degrees, if any, he had.)

~~~
siglesias
And not just any PhD, a Cambridge PhD, using said Tractatus as the
dissertation. Astonishing.

~~~
zmmz
At the time, the PhD was not seen very highly in the department, and in the
report on the defence of the PhD Moore famously said:

"It is my personal opinion that Mr. Wittgenstein’s thesis is a work of genius;
but, be that as it may, it is certainly well up to the standard required for
the Cambridge degree of Doctor of Philosophy’

So, it was not seen as an achievement at all!

~~~
kleiba
_So, it was not seen as an achievement at all!_

I don't get that interpretation from that quote at all. To me, the quote is
about contrasting the speaker's _subjective_ view with a more objective
"standard" requirement for a PhD degree. It's basically saying: "To me, his
work as that of a genius. But YMMV. However, even if you don't want to go
quite that far, you'll certainly admit that it's great and fulfills the
requirements for a PhD."

Not being the work of a genius does not necessarily mean that it's not an
achievement.

~~~
fluidcruft
I think it's more along the lines of: the degree itself is a insignificant and
unworthy of his work. It's like giving him a Kindergarten gold star sticker.
Which says something about the quality of his work, or of other degree
holders, or both.

~~~
mturmon
Disagree. The quote reflects this observation:

Just because the thesis (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractatus_Logico-
Philosophicus>) exceeds the requirements for the degree, does not make the
degree insignificant.

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noelwelsh
I know a few cases of researchers who don't have PhDs, but I've never seen
this before.

Probably the best known researcher in CS who doesn't hold a PhD is Simon
Peyton Jones. He is very well known in the field of programming languages and
one of the main implementors of the main Haskell implementation GHC. I think
he might have started a PhD in the last few years, but he was appointed a
professor at Glasgow without one.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
There are many many more than that, but we don't typically bother with those
details; if the guy/gal knows their stuff, who cares what their degree level
is?

~~~
noelwelsh
Sssh, you don't want the grad students to hear! Without grad students who's
gonna do all the prof's grunt work?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
The PhD gives us time and resources to become a researcher; it is actually a
quite useful experience. If we can get the time/resources another way, great!
I personally would have been lost on my own; I met people in my program who
really set my path.

If you are young and inexperienced, it is also getting more difficult to get
your foot in the door of a research institution without a PhD from a TOP
program. Sure, there are other ways up, but getting the PhD is probably a
reasonable way to approach things.

~~~
noelwelsh
I agree. I have a PhD. While the process wasn't 100% sunshine and rainbows I
enjoyed most of it, learned a heck of a lot, and I understand the utility of
doing a PhD for most people who are interested in doing further research.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Well, your name is familiar :)

------
CurtMonash
When I visited grad schools junior year (1975), I was told I did not need an
undergraduate degree. Armed with that knowledge, I held firm in my
negotiations about undergrad requirements, and the Dean of the Honors Program
later thanked me for bothering to graduate.

When I did get to grad school, a couple of professors didn't have PhDs. One
was my eventual thesis advisor, which was awkward in that he didn't really
seem to empathize with certain stresses I was going through. ;)

\--------------

Specifics on that include:

Undergrad -- Ohio State

Grad -- Harvard, mathematics

Adviser -- Andy Gleason; I realized he didn't have a PhD in that pre-web era
only after I saw his bio for the presidency of the American Mathematical
Association

------
drucken
I have a feeling that this was more common in the past.

Except, 1993 is not that long ago and University of Durham is one of the best
universities in the UK, especially in his chosen subject. There is no way he
could have got into that university on a PhD programme without passing
rigorous academic tests.

Oh, and he did it all with English to a high level.

So, indeed, that is quite (art of British understatement) impressive!

~~~
lifeisstillgood
I think it is worth noting he would have been born in the decade after the
Cultural Revolution - so he grew up most likely in abject poverty - and into a
society recovering from hideous losses. That is one reason why the work would
have been undertaken outside of China. (It's probably no exaggeration to say
the exceptionally large numbers of Chinese foreign students from 70s onwards
in western universities contributed to Chinas recovery.)

Anyway, impressive personally, impressive for the social and family support
needed and impressive as part of a society recovering.

Plus research into develoent of agriculture outside of Mesopotamia - cool
stuff!

------
argumentum
The number theorist, Ramanujan, had only one Cambridge degree, "B.A. by
Research", which was later renamed as "PhD". It was awarded _after_ he had
published important work with two of the greatest English mathematicians,
Hardy and Littlewood.

If you delve into history, there are innumerable examples of achievement
through non-traditional channels. Lincoln didn't have a law degree, for
example. In the 20th century, auto-didacticism (teaching yourself) became less
common .. here's hoping that that trend is reversed in the 21st.

------
celerity
I am a math Ph.D. student, and one of my professors went straight to Princeton
after 3 years of college without his degree. He impressed a Princeton
professor enough to have him offer a position there, which he could apparently
do. My professor took the offer, not only because it was fantastic in its own
right, but also because he only took math courses as an undergrad, and getting
his bachelor's degree would have meant taking a year of humanities -- a
nightmare!

This isn't that strange. A lot of universities are private institutions, so
they can accept whom they please.

~~~
tantalor
I doubt the public-or-private distinction matters in hiring choices.

------
curiousdannii
PhD by Publication isn't uncommon. I know a number of people who have worked
as researchers in NGOs. After a decade of that it can take just a few months
to tidy up the work you have already done, submit it to a university, and be
awarded the qualification.

------
ekurutepe
The former german education minister Annette
Schavan(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annette_Schavan>) also had only a PhD-
Degree, which was taken back last year due to plagiarism, leaving her with no
academic degrees whatsoever.

------
malcolmmcc
I get that this reads funny, but I think it's fairly clear what he
means...like, reworded it might say:

"I essentially have a BSc and MSc, through self-studying, but the only degree
I got from an academic institution was my PhD."

~~~
shubb
The term 'self study' is strange here. He was trained to MSc level by his
employer. The army do this all the time. The Chinese government do it very
often.

~~~
craig552uk
My dad earned 'the equivalent of' an MSc in the air force in the 70's. Those
qualifications didn't translate well in to the real world back then.

------
moron4hire
Shock! Horror! Gasp! You mean someone can be accomplished in academics without
following the Standard Academic Track That Is Designed By Our Benevolent
Government And Their Patriotic Comrades In University To Provide Thou With A
Most Efficient And Complete Education?!

------
ximeng
Google cache:

[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.earthsciences.hku.hk/index.php/people/profile/42&hl=en&strip=1)

Impressive to get the equivalent of an MSc while working in a butcher shop.

~~~
petercooper
Surely many of us HN addicts could have an MSc in rhetoric and logical
fallacies by now.

------
auctiontheory
This is a side effect of the Cultural Revolution, a terrible time for
"intellectuals" in China. There must be many others like him.

~~~
mturmon
That's what I suspected, thanks for making this observation. I wonder if
others can chime in with anecdotes?

Certainly I've known several people who were held back by forced labor in the
countryside, but later went to grad school in the US. They were a little
younger than the professor in the OP, so it didn't affect them as much.

------
rdipasup
I think we're definitely in a wave of education bubble. Soon enough, paper
degrees wouldn't matter. Udemy, Udacity, etc may look like 'for fun' type of
schools, but I'm sure they'll democratize institution heavy traditional
schools.

------
pud
In some states, including California, you can practice law without having any
type of law degree -- as long as you pass the Bar Exam.

I've always been tempted to study & take it.

~~~
chollida1
Engineering, atleast in Canada, is similar.

You can write a series of tests instead of getting a university degree. Though
you still need to do the 4 year engineer in training before you become a PEng.

~~~
napoleond
Source? I'm aware of programs which allow internationally educated engineers
to earn equivalency in Canada (ie. without having to re-do their entire
degree), and there is certainly a test to write before you may be a member of
a province's professional organisation (and thus eligible for a PEng), but
that test is about ethics and engineering law.

I've never heard of any system by which someone without any formal engineering
education could write a series of tests to become eligible for a PEng, unless
that "series of tests" is accompanied by several years of painstaking study
and a bachelor's degree at the end ;)

~~~
papercrane
I was interested as well, and found this:

[http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/files/guideline_admission_wi...](http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/files/guideline_admission_with.pdf)

From my cursory reading it looks like if you went to a school that isn't
accredited you can take the examinations instead, but it doesn't look like you
can just take the exams and be licensed, they still want you to have some
academic qualifications.

------
gastke
When I was a student at Berkeley, I had took a linear algebra class with grad
student who was admitted to PhD program without any previous degrees granted.
He also was a genius and won the Putnam competition IIRC.

<http://math.cmu.edu/~sevakm/>

------
ruycer
Is it possible that he did not had a chance to go to college because he grew
up in the midst of the cultural revolution? He seems a middle age man, who
could be in his late teens/early twenties in the late 1960's, when for the
regime any academic degree was suspicious.

------
edgar_di
now you made me feel bad. I have the wall decorated with a Bsc. in
engineering, a graduate diploma, and Masters degree in IT and no Job!. a
Degree Is Worthless, you get a piece of paper after spending 4+ or more years
of your life; Collaborate!.

------
wwosik
I believe that, for once, formally you don't need MA/MSc to get a PhD.

Another example could be <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Banach>

~~~
jdotjdot
You often don't need MA/MS to get a PhD. Many PhD programs in the US grant
them as a matter of course "along the way" during PhD programs, with them
really not mattering so much and students obviously applying to the program
without the Master's under their belts already.

------
m2mapps
Not quite the same, but a few years ago I met an HCI professor who had started
his career as a male nurse and had worked his way up through the academic
system.

------
broken_symlink
Barry Mazur, a professor at Harvard, only has a PhD from Princeton. He
attended MIT for undergrad and just never graduated.

------
tirrellp
Ive seen something similar to this.

My friend has a BS in Chemistry, and the head of the academic NanoTech lab
where he worked said, "I really want you in our NanoTech PhD program. Just try
it for a couple years. If after 2 years you don't like it, You can walk away
and I will grant you a Master's for your trouble"

~~~
fibbery
I thought this is the way it typically works... students are admitted to PHD
programs after a BA/BS, and they get a terminal master's if they drop out but
it's definitely not a prerequisite for the program.

------
saadazzz
I feel like such a loser reading this...

~~~
nokya
:) ... :( same here.

------
arbuge
More power to him. He's pretty straightforward about it and probably has
unique perspectives on life which the other faculty are lacking. I might have
enjoyed my own PhD work more if I had been one of his graduate students
instead.

------
robomartin
Tis concept is new to me. Are there many universities in the US and Europe
that accept students (and grant degrees) into MSc and PhD programs without
requiring the prior degrees or is this particular case an anomaly?

------
MaysonL
Then there's Ed Fredkin, who joined MIT as a full professor with no degree.

------
Hitchhiker
Loved the " only " part.

------
oellegaard
Maybe I should stop my BsC studies, it might be easier to go directly for the
PhD :D

~~~
qompiler
How will you develop and prove your theories in <field> if you never learned
how?

------
ForFreedom
His numbers are there, did somebody call him?

------
justplay
salute

------
sauravt
Respect

