
Russian Cyberwarfare Is Much Worse Than You Think - curtis
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/09/russian-cyberwarfare-is-much-worse-than-you-think-donald-trumps-indifference-to-it-is-much-more-criminal-than-you-think/
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sorrymate
It seems like Russia has found that unconventional forms of warfare like
cyberwarfare, political espionage, and active measures are much more cost
effective than pure might. Its really concerning especially because Democratic
nations seem to be especially susceptible. Europe and the United States should
be condemning these attacks.

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prolikewh0a
>Its really concerning especially because Democratic nations seem to be
especially susceptible. Europe and the United States should be condemning
these attacks.

Once the American people stand up to their own government's foreign election &
democratic interference, we have no basis to talk about other countries doing
what we've done in mass forever. USA is the biggest threat to democracy
worldwide.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention)

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vardump
We're talking about _Russia_ , not about other entities. What USA, Ghana or
your local grocery store does or does not do is _entirely irrelevant_ in the
context of this discussion.

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prolikewh0a
It's extremely relevant. Russia is not the only one doing this and it's
continuing propaganda to not talk about the others. These are common arguments
among people who believe these conspiracies, to shut down any dissent or
information that could hamper the conspiracy's 'legitimacy'.

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BerislavLopac
I don't understand. Which point are you making: that it is a "conspiracy" that
Russia is doing it, or that Russia is not the only one doing it?

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amaccuish
All I can think when reading this is, so what? Israel and America were likely
responsible for Stuxnet. I'm sure if I were a russian citizen, I'd be angry if
my government _wasn 't_ doing things like this.

~~~
prolikewh0a
>All I can think when reading this is, so what?

Democrats wanted a cop-out to never talk about the reasons why they _actually_
lost, and they sure created that cop-out and never went back and looked at why
they actually lost.

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DyslexicAtheist
_" In the meantime, the big question is: Why doesn’t Trump care? And why does
the Republican Party allow him to get away with not caring?"_

oh sweetie, you might want to read up on asymetric warfare and the Gerasimov
doctrine ...

~~~
spuz
Okay then:

> Herein lies the real power of the Gerasimov-style shadow war: It’s hard to
> muster resistance to an enemy you can’t see, or aren’t even sure is there.
> But it’s not an all-powerful approach; the shadowy puppeteering at the heart
> of the Gerasimov Doctrine also makes it inherently fragile. Its tactics
> begin to fail when light is thrown onto how they work and what they aim to
> achieve. This requires leadership and clarity about the threat — which we
> saw briefly in France, when the government rallied to warn voters about
> Russian info ops in advance of the presidential election. For now, though,
> America is still in the dark — not even on defense, let alone offense.

So then, why does Trump not care about it? This article indicates that his
shining a light on Russian activities could be effective. I think I know the
answer but your reply doesn't actually answer the question.

[https://www.politico.eu/article/new-battles-cyberwarfare-
rus...](https://www.politico.eu/article/new-battles-cyberwarfare-russia/)

~~~
DyslexicAtheist
are you indicating he might be a Russian asset ?? (gasp) not after he has
built a whole business network over there and had no scruples to hire a man
who was directly responsibly for installing Yanukovich (in Ukraine) as his
campaign manager?

I do not think Trump is even capable of caring because that would imply he has
some kind of intelligence. Considering he isn't able to write a tweet that
isn't all CAPS-LOCK and riddled with grammar/spelling errors, no I don't think
he cares.

The actual reason Trump doesn't care is because Trump thrives on chaos. He
doesn't shine with intelligence or making good arguments. He feeds of disarray
and chaos. I don't mean to say he does a good job bringing structure to chaos.
But he knows that as long as everyone is up in arms over every tweet they're
not thinking clearly and that is (as far as "Trump the man" is concerned) his
_only_ advantage. It's a huge one though.

He (Trump) certainly has no interest on shining a light on the Russian
activities. At least not if it concerns him or his crooked son/family.

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bl4ckcontact
Is it though? This information certainly doesn't surprise me, nor do I think
at this point that it surprises many folks that are tuned in to international
news. Even so, this type of behavior is not out of the ordinary for many
technologically-advanced countries. Let me be clear -- I am _not_ condoning
this type of behavior, and I certainly am not defending Russia or President
Trump, but this article feels like a poor attempt at making a jab at Trump and
suggesting being a criminal.

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DyslexicAtheist
It's very poor tabloid style reporting. Whether Trump is or is not a criminal
future will tell, but from what we know today he has risen to power thanks to
an international network of criminal enterprise.

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prolikewh0a
>what we know today he has risen to power thanks to an international network
of criminal enterprise.

Are you excusing domestic criminal enterprise networks, or are you claiming
the extremely narrow viewpoint that Russia was _entirely_ responsible for
Trump?

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DyslexicAtheist
USA alone is responsible for Trump not Russia. Russia is background noise. Yes
they set the stage, but in the current climate they are overrated. All they
had to do is push the dominos already lined up. They did the same thing in
Europe - yet none of the far-right camps made it yet (apart from Austria).

Amercia got exactly the president it deserves.

~~~
prolikewh0a
How did Russia set that stage in a manner that $6.5 billion [1] (publicly
known at least!) along with thousands and thousands of hours of free &
corporate biased advertising via mainstream media couldn't defeat? $100,000 in
mixed republican/liberal ads surely had nothing on $6.5 billion.

[1]
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/14/someb...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/04/14/somebody-
just-put-a-price-tag-on-the-2016-election-its-a-doozy/?utm_term=.7ddec7bc3ee9)

