
Show HN: Mindscapes – Stochastic background music generator - lurzo
http://www.mindscapes.co
======
erikschoster
"Stochastic" made me hopeful - thinking hey Xenakis, sonic exploration of
data, etc - and "background music" made me skeptical - thinking here comes
another garbage piece of general midi mapping that passes for generative
music.

It's hard for me to be so negative, but this is a bit like posting your new
bootstrap site on a design forum. Not that HN is all computer musicians and
generative composers, but some of us are. This might be your first step into
generative music, or music in general, and please keep sharing! Some of the
best advice I ever got when starting to write music was: you're going to write
junk for quite a while, don't let it discourage you.

I'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you're working with
algorithmically.

After listening to more of the "deep ocean" mp3, it sounds like you have a set
of 10 or 15 short gestures, and the algorithm is determining the order they'll
play and how they'll be stacked. Good place to start! If you aren't interested
in applying systems to the material itself, a next step might be to just play
with amplitude over time. You can prolly increase the overall density of
samples if you apply stochastic envelopes to each, without affecting the still
mood -- it might help reduce a feeling of monotony, too.

~~~
lurzo
Hi erik! i'm the music/audio guy of the site. First thank you for the precious
feedback and encouragement :). Your description at the end of the reply is
accurate. There are 10 to 15 instances of synths/sample based stuff, which
take midi imputs based on the following criteria:

A list of frequencies. A list of note durations. A list of amplitudes.

All this process is triggered by a set time (in seconds) which, going in
tandem with a selected chance rate of generating the note, makes a music
event.

Having this running on a server would be hard for us, so the decision to make
a long export of these "sessions".

I agree on the fact that Stochastic music has a certain academic connotation
and standards for a composer, standards that are far from being achieved from
the tracks on the site. I will try my best to make new soundscapes even more
dynamic in the future :).

~~~
erikschoster
Hey thanks for being so understanding! I just want to say that I feel badly
for being this negative, it's out of character for me, but this is a realm
that's close to my heart and I'm just critical because I care about it and
want to see projects like these exceed my wildest expectations.

You should also take my comments with a grain of salt because my hopes for
things like this are for lack of a better way of putting it musically bound. I
can't help but listen to this as art, and so I'm responding to it that way.
I'm taking these pieces as things for close listening.

I think making long renders for static streaming is a fine approach by the way
- have you thought about automating a re-render more often for each piece?

A more expensive alternative would be to run a dedicated render server to
generate music in realtime, and then multiplex the stream on demand with
something like wowza. Makes me miss the days of r4nd.org:
[http://rhizome.org/discuss/15607/#29894](http://rhizome.org/discuss/15607/#29894)

Good luck with the project & thanks again for sharing!

~~~
lurzo
Constructive criticism is always appreciated! A nice happy solution that we
want to implement in the coming days is to have even longer exports start at a
random file time (having it looping off course). Also i didn't know about
r4nd.org! Is there a link where to listen some snippets of it?

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bengali3
First take: I see links to 4 mp3s, I guess I was expecting something more
unique. Are these generated often?

Take 2: I see now the email signup and the info icon telling me that you
offer: "You will get just an email or two per month with news about new
soundscapes and new features. One-click unsubscribe." maybe highlight this as
it wasn't immediately obvious this was more than a one time curiosity.

minor comment: "Mindscapes lets you relax or focus while exploring dynamic
soundscapes" \-- maybe avoid using both mind and soundscapes? (stick with one
to reinforce the name, i had to go back to the tab as I type this reply)

Im sure you could go technical on the algorithm as well. Helps to show the
complexity behind this for further appreciation.

overall very cool design, love the audio & the design as well as graphics. If
you're looking to gain email subscribers, make that clearer. After I listen
for a bit, what would you like me to do?

Great stuff! What're you planing to do next?

~~~
lurzo
Hi bengali3, thanks for the tips and the appreciation :)!

For the time being we count on generating 1 or 2 soundscapes per month (1-2
per month is becoming a mantra lol.) We would like to do next soundscapes
based on actual feedbacks. Also what we think a user should do is to simply
select a place where they would like to be and enjoy this no voice, no musical
refrains soundscapes as a background to their activities, whether it be
working or trying to get some sleep.

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keslert
This is awesome! I've been really frustrated with music lately and have been
wanting something like this. Thanks for making and sharing.

~~~
QuadDamaged
You might also like [http://myNoise.net](http://myNoise.net) \- it's less
musical and more geared towards generating ambiences.

Disclaimer: I am writing their iOS app.

That said, these are some really nice soundscapes!

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PavlovsCat
I disliked any generative music or soundscape or anything I ever heard so far;
but this made me smile. I would be interested to hear versions without the
musical instruments, just the background noises -- maybe expose parameters so
visitors could play with them?

Oh, and the website looks like I could just eat it. I love how it's light and
playful without being flat and boring. But I think the responsiveness could be
improved a bit: when I resize the window, there are some of sizes where stuff
gets cut off, and only change position after resizing further. On small
viewports, maybe the "Tune your mind." could get a _slightly_ smaller font
size, and be made to sit above the audio player (which maybe could loose its
margin)? Anyways, just some random thoughts :)

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kaonashi
The feedback input and submit button have different bottom padding; it's
really making my eye twitch.

~~~
repeater
Tried to fix after your feed. We like pixel-perfect layouts ;). Is it ok now?

~~~
kaonashi
Ah yes, tension is resolved.

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jph
Great UI and great idea. If your goal is attention focus, then can you
experiment with some softening?

For example, how about longer attack/decay envelopes? Changing sawtooth waves
to sine waves? Lessening the ranges of frequencies and amplitudes?

This can create soundscapes that sound less like striking a high bell, and
more like soft jazz woodwinds.

~~~
lurzo
Thanks for the love jph! All the things you said can be surely done! I will
experiment more in the coming soundscapes.

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the_cat_kittles
these things sound nice. apparently putting words like "stochastic" sound the
alarms of "real" computer musicians, which is dumb. how fragile are your
egos?! if you don't like this, or think its too noob, why even bother to tear
it down?

~~~
spacemanmatt
This is a technical forum. We actually care about precision when describing
pieces of technology. When people say things that seem potentially inaccurate,
yes, expect alarms. It's not ego, it's professionalism exercised outside of
the office.

~~~
lurzo
I understand that Stochastic music has a certain academic connotation and
standards for a composer. For them the title is surely misleading. Still, even
if noobish, i can assure these soundscapes take advantage of stochastic note
generators.

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alansammarone
This is wonderful. Could you please elaborate on what kind of stochastic
processes were used?

~~~
lurzo
Thanks alans!:) You can find an answer to that in my response to the nice Erik
up in the comments.

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fit2rule
Great! This goes right next to
[http://musicforprogramming.net](http://musicforprogramming.net) in my list of
things to listen to while trying to get some coding done .. nice work!

~~~
lurzo
Thanks fit2rule! We are glad you like it! Stand by for some more soundscapes
:)

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tempodox
I like the sounds but it seems to act like a virus. I have to kill my browser
to stop it.

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radicalzebra
I wish I didn't have to worry about being "negative" in posting honestly about
this site. It really is something awful, and reflects something disappointing
about modern startup culture.

First, the synthesis of floaty background nonsense constitutes a contribution
to a problem, not a solution we've been looking for. This is akin to making an
automatic reality show generator. Nothing could be less aspirational. Second,
what's upsetting here is how technically uninteresting this particular bot is,
and yet we have a comment thread vaguely waving hands and intimating that
something marvelous and deeply technical is going on here. The third problem
is the pretension. The word "stochastic" here simply means some coins were
flipped. It's hard to imagine how you would be posting about a "deterministic"
music generator.

I think I need to wash my ears.

~~~
dwaltrip
I only listened for about 5 minutes, but it was actually pretty pleasant.
Rather unlike your comment.

Unfortunately, I'm 18 points away from being able to downvote, so I'm posting
this instead.

My recommendation: chill out and take a 30 second break before re-reading and
then posting your comment. Also remember that a human being just like you
spend a non-trivial amount of effort working on whatever it is you are looking
at it. Then you might feel less inclined to naively shit all over it. One
alternative approach, if you have nothing constructive to say: peacefully
close the tab and move on with your day.

~~~
radicalzebra
Humans spend far less trivial amounts of time creating works of literature. A
novel may consume three years of an author's life. And yet for years society
has been enriched by a lively and often sharply critical literary discourse.
By comparison, this is a trivial project, and yet the culture is so much more
defensive.

You even threaten to downvote me! (oh my). How can you simultaneously want to
change the world and clamor for censorship?

~~~
joshdotsmith
Censorship? Hardly. A downvote is just the easiest way for them to signal
their displeasure.

The cultural attitude you see prevalent here defending creators is due to the
community's wont to make this a safe place for sharing, especially given the
recent efforts at making "Show HN" a first-class citizen.

Constructive criticism is a good thing, but I don't think that's missing from
HN. What dwaltrip (and Hytosys below) are suggesting is that your criticism is
not in the least bit constructive, and takes a tone that would otherwise
negate any constructive bits. I concur.

If you're curious to see how a comment might actually be constructive in the
course of being critical, I'd seriously consider erikschoster's comment.

