

Show HN: Subtask – Organize projects the way your mind works - dittes
https://www.subtask.com
Very cool project of a good friend of mine...
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leetrout
"At least 5 characters, only letters and numbers please."

It's 2013. Why are there still constraints on what characters can be use for a
password?

I would love to hear from the author why this is the case.

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nollidge
At least they tell you what's allowed. My favorite is when I put in a password
that's rejected with an ambiguous message. Or, even better, when my bank
accepted my password but it actually didn't handle whatever punctuation was in
it correctly, so that changing my password succeeded but I couldn't log in at
all (I was using KeePass, so it wasn't typos).

~~~
obituary_latte
Had this happen with a credit card company. Registered for online access,
generated pass with 1password, no errors, "Very strong" indicator, save
(again, no errors) and was locked out.

Was a lot of fun talking to the customer service rep who insisted I needed to
be using IE. That I had to register. That I "must be doing something wrong".
That I am not typing in the correct password. That I'm not technically
capable.

Turned out to be a length restriction. It just cut off the last n characters
of the password I chose. Good times.

~~~
nollidge
Yes! My bank did something like this - they kept rejecting my password as too
long _without telling me how long it was supposed to be_!!

Turns out it was ten. Ten characters protecting my sensitive personal banking
information. Upon e-mailing, they said they're going to be bumping it to 20.

~~~
TheCraiggers
My developer environment at work has a password that is synced across multiple
services.

Ran into a problem a few months ago where I changed my password successfully
on the front-end, but one-or-many backend syncing operations mangled the new
password by dropping the last n characters on the floor. So when I logged into
the front end, it would look like everything was fine until I tried to perform
some kind of operation. At which point it promptly threw up all over itself.

Left me in a completely non-working state for a few days. Didn't help that I'm
basically the only admin for said system.

~~~
sirclueless
Non-responsive superiors are a great excuse in business. Stuff can get "stuck"
for quite a while if you have enough bureaucratic obfuscation to justify it.
When the buck starts and stops in the same place you have nowhere to turn.

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cheez
Does anyone's mind actually ever work like this? Mindmaps drive me insane.

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masnick
I think some people actually do think like this, but I'm with you: I can't
imagine how this is more helpful than a linear list.

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xiadz
It is more helpful in the same way as binary tree search is better than linked
list traversal.

~~~
cheez
Interesting. I use org mode to manage my tasks and a simple C-/ t shows me all
my todos, managed hierarchically.

Different tools for different people and if your brain works with mindmaps,
that fascinates me because they make my brain stop functioning.

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drsim
Flashback. I worked on a failed mindmap startup with a web-based tool just
like this (it was 1999 so of course it was Flash!).

As the other commenter said, there's a split in people who learn well with
mindmaps and others like me who prefer lists.

The startup I worked on: Mindwarp Pavillion in Dundee got licensing rights to
stacks of textbooks. They created loads of mindmaps based on study books and
sold access to students for a few bucks a month.

Even (better?) the mindmaps were a quiz where the student had to answer the
next node. There were studies showing that using this method they retained a
lot more information.

I was told that the whole mindmap concept was protected somehow (patent?)
which they paid a license fee to use. They also got the endorsement of its
creator.

£30m valuation when the local authority invested. They lasted a year then
died, leaving my last invoice unpaid.

They failed because: \- Students didn't pay \- They could do it on pen and
paper for free, while they're learning \- The product wasn't driven by a real
customer need: 12 months of dev on super-whizzy software without getting a MVP
in students hands

~~~
keithpeter
_"They could do it on pen and paper for free, while they're learning"_

And that _active_ engagement with the text is the important thing! The student
making their _own_ mind map/flash cards/linear notes/annotations on past
papers. Whatever.

I like the node quiz idea though, and shall use that on the whiteboard one day
(UK based maths teacher).

PS: nice e-book

~~~
sirclueless
Indeed, the most valuable part of flashcards for me has always been distilling
a semester into a set of questions that are suitable for the format. Then the
flashcard is a marker into a larger corpus of information that is in my head,
instead of the sum total of information I have on a topic.

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perlpimp
Is there a demo video available? I think you should make one if you don't.
Most people I've talked to having videos that outline basic way of using a
product give extra 10-15% bump in signups.

I am for one at this point is a bit tired and would like to watch a happy
video about your product so I don't have to confront my doubts and
insecurities while learning subtask.

Maybe I am wrong but thats the first thing I looked for on your site.

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GhotiFish
I like these services, but it's like trello. If I have personal tasks to do,
those personal tasks will often include sensitive data. My grandmothers bank
number, my medical card number, the phone number of a friend. I don't trust
these services with that kind of data. Having an online solution is not a
solution. Not without zero knowledge. Which they could totally do, but hell,
that's hard.

~~~
davidandgoliath
That's where local is beneficial. I've got a 'the hit list' install locally on
my mac that stores just about everything & a bunch of flashcards related to
each task. There was a learning curve but it's immensely helped me stay
organized.

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tekacs
Interestingly, the Privacy Policy[1], Terms of Service[2] and Imprint[3] are
some of the most clearly worded I've come across anywhere! :)

[1]: <https://www.subtask.com/privacy>

[2]: <https://www.subtask.com/terms>

[3]: <https://www.subtask.com/imprint>

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toki5
Quick question -- why is SSL encryption only offered on the top two tiers?

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ozataman
Yeah, it should be the absolute requirement for this kind of app on all tiers
- free or otherwise.

~~~
wikwocket
Why? If it is a feature that will encourage people to upgrade, and/or a
feature that only concerns the kind of people who buy "Enterprise" plans, then
why not use it as a cost differentiator among the plans?

I can see how SSL is important, but the 2 lower plans are free and a few bucks
a month. I don't see a problem with reserving this to the bigger plans.

~~~
skolor
Pay-for-security is a bad path to go down. Compare pay-for-ssl to using md5 on
the lower tier for password encryption, while the upper tiers get something
like bcrypt, or you only get a salted password if you pay extra.

It seems pretty absurd to require a payment for security, especially when
you're implementing it for a subset of users. Its true that SSL is going to be
more taxing on their servers, but the majority of the cost is going to be
spent getting an engineer to implement it, rather than the actual operational
costs.

~~~
ozataman
Agreed. I would argue the SSL tax on servers is fairly negligible in this day
and age.

As for other reasons:

1\. It leaves a bad taste in your customers' mouth. Security should be an
option.

2\. Imagine the disaster if someone makes front-page on HN complaining how
their PW got snooped and their top-secret project plan is now public.

Pay-for-SSL was a bad idea back in 2005 - now it's a non-starter in my
opinion.

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manuelflara
Two notes: \- I think your Enterprise and Plus plans are too cheap. \- I'm
glad nobody's complaining about the prices being in euros instead of dollars.
As a European I sometimes worry about exchange rates affecting my income if I
price my products in dollars.

~~~
tarr11
Did you buy it?

~~~
manuelflara
Nop, I'm a happy Basecamp customer.

~~~
tarr11
Then why would you say his plans are too cheap?

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mAritz
I like it.

A couple of issues I had:

\- There is no easy way to select a bunch of tasks

\- If you have selected a bunch of tasks, that's no use because you can't
change them all at once (like assigning someone to an entire subtree, or
setting a date)

\- (WRONG there is a keyboard shortcut overview in the help) I have no idea
what keyboard shortcuts exist and there doesn't seem to be a page that lists
them and only sporadic hints on the elements themselves

\- Links between tasks can make things very messy, but I'm unsure whether this
actually gets problematic with more use

\- For proper project management priorities are important and should be
settable

\- Tasks should maybe have optional weighting so that if you have 2 subtasks,
marking one as done doesn't mean the task is 50% done

\- Performance seems sub-optimal. While I don't experience problems during
use, it is eating quite a lot of CPU power for me for things like moving
around. Not a huge problem and I'm not sure this can be changed easily.
Speculation: Maybe using a canvas renderer (2d or webgl if available) could
prove faster. (<http://jonobr1.github.io/two.js/> maybe?)

edit: Some form of hover effect on interactive elements would help (like on
the icons below a task)

edit2: Found the keyboard shortcuts

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brudgers
What is a mind map and why should I use one?

That is the other sale that needs to be made. As an HN'er, I'll Wikipedia up
an answer and Google around on it, but how am I going to sell this egg basket
to my boss for our next project? Or rather, how are you going to help me sell
it to Mr. PointyHead?

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robert_tweed
Looks awesome and I'm definitely going to be trying this out. My only initial
concern is about how quickly I can input a long list of tasks. I don't see
anything to add a sibling tasks; a button (with keyboard shortcut) for this
would definitely speed that up.

Also, it would be nice if when editing a task, it could centre itself onscreen
or display the text you're typing in a floating box. Otherwise you quickly
find yourself typing off the edge of the browser window, having to stop typing
and pan with the mouse, which is a minor inconvenience.

What are your plans for tablet support? I currently dump all my initial ideas
into iThoughts and then use something else for managing an active project. I
could see this replacing that workflow with one thing.

~~~
michael_p
Thanks for your feedback! You can create sibling tasks using the Enter-key and
subtasks with Tab. Tablet: Depending on what tablet you have the web-version
might work but we also plan to build native apps.

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codereflection
This is pretty fantastic.

Some feedback:

* I'd really love to see a blog for the subtask site, with some information about what the roadmap looks like, what type of stack your built on, etc.

* SSL for the low end paid tier

* Conversion to other currencies

* Some indication on the plans page as to what payment methods are accepted

* The keyboard shortcuts are working extremely well, and the site is very responsive, love it!

* I really like that there is no per-user restriction on projects

* It would be really awesome to see integration with something like Trello, Github issues, etc.

* Definitely needs stronger password support

Keep up the great work! Gems like this are the only reason I keep coming back
to HN.

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subb
From my experience, it's almost impossible to divide a whole software project
into a hierarchical view like a mind map.

Take for example a simple website. What will be your first level? Server-side
and Client-side? What about pages? Do you repeat every pages on each side
because you have code on both? OK so maybe the first level is all the pages
then? Now, do you repeat client-side and server-side work for each pages?

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Robin_Message
This looks pretty cool, I will try it out.

One thing that is important to me in mind-mapping-type tools is good keyboard
navigation. This one is pretty good, but I think going left then immediately
right (-1+1=0) should end on the same item, not the top of the list of
children of the left-hand item (and the same for left-left-right-right etc.)

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64kps
Looks interesting. I've been using DropTask (<https://www.droptask.com>)
recently which is a slightly different take on visual task management. Still
not sure whether I prefer it to more traditional apps, but kudos to both
companies for trying something different.

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mkoble11
I've tried Trello & Asana but have always been looking for something a little
more visual. This is great, thanks!!

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jonjohn84
I like the idea.

The odd quote placement here made me laugh, though, because it almost looks
like you're trying to take part of what someone said and change it by adding
more: <http://i.imgur.com/Ea77zIr.jpg>

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martin-adams
I really like. I find mindmaps are my preferred way of organising my tasks.
The experience has been nice and elegant.

I did try dragging a node to an arbitrary position but looks like I can't do
that.

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FauserneEist
Great tool, greatly increased the productivity of our group. The visualization
gives you a proper overview of what's been done and what's still todo. Kudos.

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ahel
I'd the feeling from the website that it's a better implementation of
something I've already seen.

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philfrasty
looks slick!! congrats! Is it similiar to MindNode on the Mac? I use that a
lot and have been on the hunt for a great web-alternative with no success so
far!

~~~
michael_p
It can be used as a mindmapping-tool, yes. However, it's actually more a
project management tool than a mindmaping-tool, so some features like change
the color of a branch are not available but you get all those PM features
instead (like a calendar, comments, file attachments etc).

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romeonova
is it just me or when you signed up and create a new project, the screen is
blank. Then you can't do anything.

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calinet6
Nice, beat me to it... :)

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mempko
How do you manage poetry?

