
Doom creator John Romero on what's wrong with modern shooter games - jonathonadler
https://www.theguardian.com/games/2019/nov/12/doom-creator-john-romero-shooter-games-id-software
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JacobAldridge
My gaming never really evolved past the golden year of 1998, when Age of
Empires was greater than Command and Conquer, and Goldeneye on the N64 with
three friends was better than sex (not that anyone gave me that option).

Every time I dip into modern games (usually watching a friend play), the
complexity wears me out. So Romero’s point about ‘modern shooters turning into
inventory games’ resonated - I’m not sure if I ever completed Doom or Duke
Nukem 3D, but both definitely felt like you could just run with them and have
fun in a way I don’t feel with today’s AAA options.

Maybe I’m just old. Or having too much sex.

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donatj
> the complexity wears me out

This! The complexity of so many modern games turns me off from them. Have to
learn a bunch of complicated systems? Sounds way too much like my day job.

~~~
AlchemistCamp
And programming as a genre has become popular...

Ever seen Lightbot, TIS-100 or Shenzhen I/O?

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DanielleMolloy
The prevalence of the shooter genre is one of the main reasons why I‘ve still
got to be embarrassed about this video game hobby outside tech circles (The
other main, of course more problematic reason being the visibility of free to
play mobile games). Pretentious Guardian views about shooter corridors won’t
change that. That’s just a sign of an industry having lost touch with
developed art forms. I wish this would change, but big guns / mindless
repetitive gameplay / violence / explosions seem to address primal instincts
for too many out there.

I’ve heard one of the Commander Keen developers did not like the direction id
and gaming was heading with Wolfenstein already. Would be interesting to read
a modern day interview with him.

Got mild hopes that streaming will improve things as it won’t only select a
market of people who are already very financially committed to this hobby.
Very curious about how Stadia will turn out.

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severine
_I’ve heard one of the Commander Keen developers did not like the direction id
and gaming was heading with Wolfenstein already. Would be interesting to read
a modern day interview with him._

Perhaps Tom Hall? There's this recent audio interview [1] with him that seems
interesting, thanks for the hint!

[1] [https://www.devgameclub.com/blog/2018/1/17/dgc-ep-096-tom-
ha...](https://www.devgameclub.com/blog/2018/1/17/dgc-ep-096-tom-hall-
interview)

~~~
lisptw102019
Probably Tom Hall. The breaking point for him was Doom; When you look at the
level of interactivity/story in Doom 3, consider that it was 'closer' to his
vision for the original than what was released in 1993.

Anachronox is probably the best example of what he thought was a 'proper'
game, and while I've never had the chance to play it, I understand it was a
very underappreciated gem in it's day.

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severine
Thanks, I'm having a great time reading about Anachronox!

If you play on Windows, it's $5.39 in GOG:
[https://www.gog.com/game/anachronox](https://www.gog.com/game/anachronox)

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netrap
Just finished Doom (1993) for the first time on switch the other day. I really
enjoyed the soundtrack, but the main thing that caught my attention was the
absolutely dark rooms where a monster would jump out. Funny about the secret
rooms, I didn't get in any until the later levels.

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friendlybus
Romero always wanted a better story and got beaten out by Carmack's
appreciation for simply quantity inside id.

I see the same cycle repeating. Anybody wanting to do a story in games should
make sure their leadership is secure on that. Big dumb cheesy gameplay is
back.

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codesushi42
I want gameplay, I could care less about some big dumb story.

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friendlybus
Billion dollar franchises have always included a big dumb story, CoD,
Warcraft, Diablo, Elder Scrolls ect. Even Doom has a story it's just there to
be pushed aside, but still is a story. Pushing aside the story is part of what
makes that game great fun.

The ludology/narrative split in games is always there even if you pick only
one side. Walking sims still have gameplay and multiplayer first person
shooters still have lore & world building.

~~~
codesushi42
You are wrong. Dead wrong. Doom does not have a big dumb story, dialogue, cut
scenes etc. It has great gameplay, pure and true.

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friendlybus
It literally has scenes where you do not shoot things, are not allowed to
shoot things and cannot shoot things so that you can listen to Samuel Hayden
tell you what you have to do. Or Vega. Or Olivia. You have passageways in
levels that are empty of gameplay with voice over that cleverly looks like
gameplay but is the same as a walking simulator. It has rooms that lock you in
and give you 30sec of voice over and visuals to tell you what's happening and
you get a power up at the end.

It has a fleshed out world with characters, big green blocks you can touch to
get lore and story progression via action. Smashing the argent accumulators
opens hell and progresses the story.

You may have ignored all that, but it is there.

'Just gameplay' is beat saber or DDR or a gameplay prototype. Go play them.

~~~
codesushi42
Were you born after the year 2000 or something? I am talking about the
original Doom, not Doom for millennials.

John Romero created the _original_ Doom, not 2016.

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mbrodersen
John "Daikatana" Romero telling the world how to make games. Right...

