
Tesla cuts car prices by up to $5k - xoxoy
https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/27/21271607/tesla-model-3-e-x-price-cuts-north-america-china
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brianwawok
Makes sense. Model Y is picking up steam. I doubt they are selling 100%
production of the other models (Y is eating a bit into sales of all 3). S and
X are both in need of a refresh, they have worse battery tech than both the 3
and Y and missing some of the cool Y features (heat pump, octovalve).

Current wait is 8-12 weeks on a Y, and only a week or two on the rest.

In line for my first Tesla (a y). It has been a very different car buying
experience!!

~~~
amcoastal
Good luck! Tesla's are marvels of technology, but the lockdown they have on
maintenance and repair -- which includes extremely high costs -- is enough to
shy me away until we get a 'right-to-repair' law.

~~~
jm4
There is hardly any maintenance on them. I had a minor wind noise issue when I
first got it that they took care of in a couple hours. Since then, it’s been
washer fluid and tires.

The kinds of routine maintenance and repair items you typically don’t want to
take your car to a dealer for aren’t much of a thing on a Tesla. Then there
are the big ones where you probably do want the dealer working on it. Like if
some significant mechanical problem occurs I want Tesla working on it. Not to
mention, a lot of the more expensive repairs are going to be covered by
warranty or insurance anyway. Sure, they’re expensive, but so is everyone
else.

If you bought a new or new-ish Ford and there was a mechanical failure would
you want to take it to a Ford shop or a random mechanic? Yes, there’s a
significant number of people in the latter group, but they’re going to feel
that way no matter what they drive. Most of them probably don’t buy new cars
because of it. Many people who buy new cars either don’t care or actually
prefer to go to the dealer.

~~~
nicoburns
> but they’re going to feel that way no matter what they drive.

The difference is that a "random mechanic" is an option with most
manufacturers. And it's not with Tesla.

~~~
jm4
But my point is that most people don’t care. Certainly the ones who buy a
Tesla don’t.

This is like arguing that the iPhone is a bad phone because it doesn’t have a
removable battery. For some, that’s a real issue. It may have been somewhat
controversial in the beginning. These days no one cares because it hasn’t
turned out to be a major issue for most.

A bunch of manufacturers find ways to get owners back to the dealership. Sure,
Tesla has more lock in than most, but try taking any other electric car to an
independent mechanic. Or a high end import.

~~~
close04
> But my point is that most people don’t care.

Plenty do, they just also want a premium electric car _despite the downsides_
, not because it has none. You just keep oscillating between your point being
that "you" don't care, or "most people" don't care.

I think the biggest single disadvantage Tesla has compared to other
manufacturers is the service network, either dedicated or partnerships. Even
in places where there's no "dealership mafia" like the EU.

Outside of internet discussions where someone needed to convince themselves
that everyone shares their point of view I never met a person who said "I
don't care how much my personal car costs to repair, how long it takes, or how
many hoops I have to jump through to do it". Definitely not after they faced
the challenges. Some may afford to absorb the extra costs but this doesn't
mean they don't care.

~~~
jm4
Sure, the service network is a weakness, but it's partially mitigated by the
fact that there's far less service for which you need to return to Tesla than
there is with other cars. In practice, it's just not a major concern because
there's no dealer maintenance schedule. You're not taking it in every few
months like with a gas car. You fill the wiper fluid, you get the tires
rotated and you change the tires once in a while. You can take it almost
anywhere for tires. Brakes aren't an issue because you hardly use them in a
Tesla. The rest is mostly warranty type stuff you'd go back to the dealer for
anyway and collision repair which sucks no matter what you drive. It's just
not really as much of an issue as critics want to make it out to be. I've
never had a lower maintenance car in my life. People are on here talking about
suspension replacements and other high mileage repairs and most people,
particularly the ones who buy a Tesla, won't own the car long enough to be
concerned about that.

~~~
close04
> there's far less service for which you need

I'm thinking more like fixing even a minor fender bender. Anecdote but I
personally know of someone from an Eastern European country who had to ferry
the damaged Tesla Model 3 on a platform to a neighboring country to repair it
because that was the closest authorized garage. It took months and the
insurance premium exploded. You get a simple cracked headlight? There are no
aftermarket parts, and even if you have an original one no garage can
"legally" install it. Knowing someone in a Tesla authorized service partner I
can confirm the practices are... not great. According to the agreement they
signed to become an authorized partner and under the threat of withdrawing
said authorization, they have quite a few limitations that make for longer
wait times and more expensive repairs. They are not allowed to order extra
parts for stock (they have to "tie" them to a car in service) and they are not
allowed to use aftermarket replacement parts, only consumables. These are real
issues and even if recently I was looking for electrics I just wasn't willing
to take the chance. I have to consider the plausible worst case when making a
purchase decision.

The yearly maintenance for my car just meant a maximum 45 minute visit to the
nearest shop to my office that I did in the morning on my way to work.

> high mileage repairs and most people, particularly the ones who buy a Tesla,
> won't own the car long enough to be concerned about that

That's not good advertisement for a car. You're saying it's great as long as
you can get rid of it fast enough? I'd really like to have the option to stick
with the car without such caveats. I mean every car's maintenance increases
with age and perhaps Teslas today involve the same overall effort and expense
except distributed differently over the lifecycle (lower than average for the
first few years, through your nose when it gets old). This may be ok for
expensive cars like an Model X or an MB S-class, but not for something like a
Model 3. And it suggests the very same Tesla owners talk out of both sides of
their mouths. On one hand they are just trying to be green, on the other
they're changing cars every few years? Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for
a justification, just pointing out the dissonance.

------
bryanlarsen
Tesla is going to get a huge amount of free publicity today. First from the
SpaceX manned launch today who are going to be driven to the pad in a Model X
and then later this evening from Jay Leno's Cybertruck test drive episode.

~~~
ghastmaster
That's a very expensive way to get free publicity.

~~~
cptskippy
All of Elon's companies give free publicity to one another. They all somehow
manage to keep in the active news cycle.

There was an announcement last week about the Boring Company in Vegas that
mentioned Tesla's would be used as people movers.

~~~
gamblor956
_There was an announcement last week about the Boring Company in Vegas that
mentioned Tesla 's would be used as people movers. _

This has always been part of the plan for the Boring peoplemover in Vegas...

~~~
cptskippy
Yes AND every article that I read about completion of the tunnel unnecessarily
brought up the fact that they'd be using the EVs as people movers. Because to
my point, any news coming out of one Musk company usually has cross marketing
for another.

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oblio
In Europe the based model 3 is still €47k. So about $50k. And that's the
starting price :(

That's an almost 33% higher price than the US version.

~~~
varjag
VAT accounts for the bulk of the difference here.

~~~
cptskippy
Would VAT apply to cars coming out of their German Gigafactory?

~~~
blaser-waffle
VAT is on everything. So yes.

But it won't have the 10% import duty coming from the US, on top of VAT. And
lower transport costs, since they're not being hauled from the US to the EU.

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nojito
Much more information here.

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-prices/tesla-
cuts-p...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-prices/tesla-cuts-prices-
by-as-much-as-6-in-north-america-to-boost-demand-
idUSKBN2330DP?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews)

Can we update the url?

------
lazyjones
What all media (except Reuters...) failed to report: free Supercharging seems
to be gone for S/X.

~~~
brianwawok
I think someone did the math and you would need to supercharge 100k mikes to
pay 5k. The cash is a better deal for almost all.

~~~
lazyjones
It's a convenience and mental thing. I am more likely to go on long
tours/holidays with my S knowing it's free (and bragging about it), so the
calculation doesn't really work out.

~~~
JeffL
Supercharging just costs a few dollars, and is way cheaper than buying gas.
You can still brag about it.

~~~
lazyjones
I live in a country where people brag about their 1200 Km per tank diesel cars
and where diesel is very competitively priced, so free SC still makes a big
difference.

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natch
This has always been their stated plan, to pass on cost savings to customers
as they get more efficient and profitable. They did some similar cuts last
year. Nice to see it continuing.

~~~
anthony_r
If this is the stated plan then I really do not understand why the stock
behaves like this was the next Apple (i.e., a company with massive margins).

~~~
3pt14159
Because Tesla makes the best electric cars and as they reach economies of
scale total cost of ownership will dominate fossil fuel cars. They need to
lower prices now because Teslas are still relatively expensive compared to,
say, a Toyota; but in the long run they won't need to lower prices further
than a certain point. Plus Musk sees angles that few others do and a platform
of mobile sensors operating around the planet is inherently comercializable.

~~~
marssaxman
_a platform of mobile sensors operating around the planet_

That is seriously creepy. Is there any way, as a Tesla owner, to prevent one's
vehicle from being used like this?

~~~
natch
It’s opt in.

------
jmacd
It seems pretty obvious that the previous prices were inflated to capture the
federal and other subsidies. It's clear those aren't coming back, so they are
adjusting to the actual market forces.

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mcot2
Besides the economic slowdown I suspect some of this is also the Model Y is
eating into sales of the other 3 and this price adjustment is mostly to
differentiate them a bit more.

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gpm
People keep talking about batteries getting cheaper, how likely is it that
this largely reflects changes in the cost to Tesla to produce these vehicles?
On the flip side how likely is it that this is cutting substantially into
Tesla's profit margin?

~~~
xoxoy
pricing rarely has anything to do with cost to produce, especially for goods
are aren’t perceived as commodities

~~~
mywittyname
Like how the V8 Mustang is a 10k premium over the turbo four, there's
absolutely not a 10k difference in production costs.

~~~
beamatronic
Check out the top Porsche 911 vs the bottom. There is a six figure difference!

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Shivetya
Free supercharging is not on the X or S now. That is a significant change.

Supercharging Max/ Payment Type200 kW max; Pay Per Use

~~~
akmarinov
I think that's a good thing. Less people charging exclusively at the
superchargers due to it being free - less queues. Also they use a lot of the
Supercharger money they get to build more Superchargers.

------
archeantus
If they gave me the 0% financing option like the other auto makers are doing,
I’d buy a Tesla today.

------
trade_unionist
I hope Musk is still cool once Tesla is a monopoly. Companies have a tendency
to turn on their users/customers once they get giant.

~~~
clouddrover
Tesla has gone from being the number 1 BEV manufacturer in Europe to now being
number 3. Soon Hyundai will also overtake them in Europe and Tesla will fall
back to 4th:

[https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/april-2020-european-
elec...](https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/april-2020-european-electric-car-
market-top-sellers)

So don't worry about Tesla becoming a monopoly. It's not a practical reality.

~~~
steelframe
Tesla was amazing and unparalleled from about 2012 to 2018. In the U.S., since
the Kona/Niro EVs, I-PACE, e-tron, and Taycan have shipped along with the
Electrify America rapid charging network, Tesla no longer has a corner on the
EV market. A fully-decked-out Model S costs the same as a base Porsche Taycan
4S. I'd challenge anyone to test drive both cars configured at the ~$115k
price point and then come back and tell me you wouldn't chose the Porsche.

~~~
tonycoco
Cheapest Taycan I could find was $145k. 192 mile range. I'll take the Model S
that is faster and nearly double the range at this point.

~~~
gamblor956
The Taycan is a true luxury performance car. You're not buying it for the
range or nominal maximum speed, you're buying it for the creature
comforts...and the ability to go 95% as fast as the (current versions of the)
Model S for 100x longer, or even faster with the creature comforts removed for
racing.

~~~
steelframe
To be clear, Taycan has a gearbox and a higher maximum speed. I think the word
the poster you're responding to meant was "quicker." Regardless, the 2020
Tesla Model S Performance is neither quicker nor faster than the 2020 Porsche
Taycan Turbo S: [https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-
prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images...](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-
prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/taycanvstesla-graphs-
accelerationtest-1581089637.png?resize=980:*)

