
Boeing Dreamliner Gets $3M Cheaper Thanks to Rapid Plasma Deposition - 6stringmerc
http://www.pcmag.com/news/352989/boeing-dreamliner-gets-3m-cheaper-thanks-to-3d-printing
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jacquesm
That's a very clever trick. Titanium is a really difficult material to machine
and by doing it this way they only have to do the final couple of passes
rather than to start from a blank. And for a part that would turn most of the
blank to chips the reduced cost in tooling (and material, contaminated
Titanium scrap is worth a lot less than Titanium stock) must be enormous.

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_rpd
The press release linked by the article has an image of the production
facility ...

Norsk Titanium to Deliver the World’s First FAA-Approved, 3D-Printed,
Structural Titanium Components to Boeing

[http://www.norsktitanium.com/norsk-titanium-to-deliver-
the-w...](http://www.norsktitanium.com/norsk-titanium-to-deliver-the-worlds-
first-faa-approved-3d-printed-structural-titanium-components-to-boeing/)

When can I afford one for my home office?

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M_Grey
Hmmm... do you have any first-order relatives who's names begin with "Count"
or "Duke", or something along those lines?

Kidding aside though, what an amazing machine; wouldn't it be great if they
were in the price-range where a group of hobbyists could pitch in to rent one
together?

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crwalker
It's great to see 3D printing winning on cost, because this is normally a
great reason to adopt a new technology. Norsk's RPD process looks to be built
for high speed and low cost (plasma torch, argon gas, titanium wire).

I think processes like RPD, Sciaky's EBAM, and Arcam's EBM are generally going
to win on price compared to traditional laser sintering like EOS DMLS in the
long term, especially for big parts. They replace expensive metal powder with
cheaper powder (EBM) or wire (EBAM, RPD), and expensive fiber lasers with more
powerful and cheaper electron beams or plasma torches.

It's hard to get fast large-scale metal deposition with a laser: the EOS
M400-4 seems one of the highest power laser based solution with 4x 400W fiber
lasers (Concept Laser has a 2x 1 kW model). Sounds fancy until you realize
that's about as much power as a nice microwave. For comparison, Hypertherm
sells 80 kW plasma torches, and Skiaky sells 42 kW electron beam welding
systems.

Cooling the parts being printed is a big problem since printing a big glowing
puddle isn't very useful, but increasing build volume / part size helps drop
the power density.

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jacquesm
Is there some kind of equivalent power rating for the purpose of comparing
plasma cutters and lasers?

~~~
crwalker
Wherever it comes from, the power is used to melt metal, so the power puts an
upper limit on how fast material can be printed.

I don't know what percentage of the plasma energy in RPD is transferred to the
metal, but fiber or CO2 lasers are significantly less efficient than electron
beams (~40% vs ~70% absorption based on a very brief search).

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pdelbarba
It's worth noting that in the picture from the article of the printed piece,
what they're actually doing is building up a near-net part and then sending it
off to be machined down to it's final spec. It appears similar to the process
of using a TIG welder to rebuild a severely damaged engine block or other
metal part and then machining it back to spec.

~~~
fudged71
Yes that's correct. You could call it Laser Cladding, Directed Energy
Deposition, or Laser Metal Deposition

If I'm not mistaken, it's cheaper to build titanium in a hybrid process like
this, compared to milling a large block of titanium. 3D printing has found
it's cost efficiency with titanium and it's not even because of complex
geometry. The industrial potential is massive.

~~~
pdelbarba
Yep. Machining large volumes of Ti is a PITA. You'll burn through (expensive)
tooling super fast.

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amelius
How strong is the new material compared to the old approach?

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astrodust
Since they're using it for wiring harnesses, sounds like these parts are
extremely numerous and can add a lot of weight if a cheaper material like
aluminium was used. No doubt they have some pretty strict strength
requirements, but they're not holding the plane together per-se.

A plastic part would probably work but for issues of fire safety, wear from
friction, and other factors like that.

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StringyBob
I remember reading that getting good 3D printed/sintered titanium was a big
thing for spacex rapid assembly - I wonder if they use the same techniques...

e.g. [http://hackaday.com/2016/05/19/its-time-for-direct-
metal-3d-...](http://hackaday.com/2016/05/19/its-time-for-direct-
metal-3d-printing/)

~~~
greglindahl
SpaceX 3d prints the entire SuperDraco engine, which is used for orbital
aborts of their crewed Dragon, and eventually for landings of crewed Dragon
and cargo Dragon 2.

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iamatworknow
Oh neat! I live not too far from Plattsburgh, where Norsk Titanium has its US
facilities. They're doing very good things for an otherwise pretty depressed
economy up here.

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Gravityloss
Titanium is very corrosion resistant, AFAIK it can be directly bonded to
carbon fiber.

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pdelbarba
On the boats I used to work on, it was common to bond Mg or Ti ribs to a
carbon shell for increased durability. I bet they're using a similar process
with the wing roots/spars in the airliners.

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toomuchtodo
Thoughts on reinforcing the bow of a sailboat with titanium to prevent vessel
loss due to collisions with floating cargo containers while blue water
cruising?

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protomyth
What is the probability of that happening? I know it occurred in a really poor
movie[1][2], but I cannot believe this is common enough to warrant the effort.
Also, wouldn't early detection be a better / cheaper alternative?

1)
[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2017038/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2017038/)

2)
[https://youtu.be/YwmVpHJeqgY?t=7m27s](https://youtu.be/YwmVpHJeqgY?t=7m27s)

~~~
pdelbarba
It's basically not going to happen but hitting flotsam in general is a concern
in some situations. I used to boat on the Cuyahoga for instance and floating
microwaves will fuck you up.

Also, detection of floating objects is actually really hard. Waves create a
ton of noise and if you google "floating shipping container" you'll see they
typically float with a corner sticking up, making them a somewhat inefficient
radar reflector (there's a reason the F117 is shaped the way it is).

~~~
protomyth
I was more thinking sonar. There seems to be quite a few companies selling
obstacle avoidance sonar that have some pretty cool displays.

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pdelbarba
Sonar doesn't typically work very well looking forward near the surface. For
larger craft the transducer could be mounted low enough to look up slightly
but even then you have surface interference issues. A container might be a big
and deep enough target to pick up on something mounted to the bottom of a
sailboat keel perhaps but definitely not the bow.

From a signals perspective, things that live right on the edge of the
water/air boundary are kind of a pain to detect. Unless the water is perfectly
still, there's so much noise that you need a lot of spatial resolution to
actually see anything useful

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legulere
Might this technique also be applicable for bicycle frames?

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chrisstu
Boeing will be overjoyed at that news being publicised. All its customers will
be asking for a $3m discount on their orders now.

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LeifCarrotson
If it's anything like the automotive industry, their customers already have a
contract that specifies the price going down for the next decade. Customers
know that you'll improve your process, get more efficient, develop a supply
chain, learn to spot problems before they surface, automate repetitive
actions, and train your technicians as the years go by.

The contracts specify prices and quantities years in advance - with later
years at lower cost than the first years. I suspect that someone guessed years
ago that while these titanium parts might need to be made with expensive
machining initially, they could eventually be built using EDM, casting, or
3D-printing, and factored that into their budget at Boeing or their contract
as a customer.

