
The biggest leak of TTIP documents yet: more than 100 confidential papers - rendx
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/3d0ftu/this_is_the_biggest_leak_of_ttip_documents_yet/
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AndrewGaspar
Proposal to make it easier for US professionals to work in the EU and vice-
versa:
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2162296-14-10-07-eu-...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2162296-14-10-07-eu-
kom-themenpapier-mobilitat-geschwarzt.html)

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ExpiredLink
Don't know what "confidential papers" means but TTIP documents are published
regularly (e.g.
[http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230](http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230)
) but seemingly not many people are interested in them.

~~~
swombat
From this page:

> The European Commission is negotiating TTIP as openly as possible.

> A final agreement would have 24 chapters, grouped together in 3 parts:

> \- Market access

> \- Regulatory cooperation

> \- Rules

> And as part of our latest transparency initiative, we're publishing:

> \- new 2-page factsheets, in plain language

> \- negotiating texts we've given US negotiators:

> \- - EU textual proposals on parts 2 and 3 of the TTIP – these set out how
> we'd want a final deal to read, line by line

> \- - EU position papers – what we want to achieve in a chapter.

> We will publish further texts as they become available.

> We will make the whole text of the agreement public once negotiations have
> been concluded – well in advance of its signature and ratification.

Sure seems like they're trying to open this up... wonder what the leak is
about then?

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M2Ys4U
Saying that they're trying to open this up is like saying a fat person is on a
diet because they've switched from regular cola to diet cola.

It doesn't make a dent unless they also exercise more and eat less.

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tomohawk
It is so ridiculous that we allow these people to play masters of the
universe, with little or no accountability or transparency.

We shouldn't settle for scraps.

~~~
andybak
My off-the-cuff reaction is the same as yours but look what happens to
institutions where all negotiation is public: posturing, media tyranny,
corridor diplomacy and a huge gap between public position and any real
opinion.

Transparency has a cost also.

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stsp
Direct links to documents:
[http://pastebin.com/fA7z2BPi](http://pastebin.com/fA7z2BPi)

(pastebin since HN wouldn't let me post the full link list as a comment)

~~~
13throwaway
Download them all with wget:

wget -O -
"[http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=fA7z2BPi"](http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=fA7z2BPi")
| wge -i -

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dhimes
TTIP: Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership- a secret deal between US
and EU

~~~
sandstrom
It's correct that much of the details are secret, but I'd stay it's still more
correct to label it as a free-trade agreement than a 'secret deal'.

I think it's insane that negotiations aren't public, and I also disagree with
some of the contents being discussed. But I think it's more objectively
described as a free-trade agreement (in which there are also a lot of good
parts).

~~~
dhimes
That's a fair point, but since we are all pissed off at our governments for
taking liberties with our well-intentioned permission to conduct espionage on
behalf of our well-being, your are extending more benefit-of-the-doubt than a
lot of us are. That's probably to your credit. But I am wary that the 'secret'
stuff has a lot of implications that are only on the edge of what we would
think of as trade agreement- intel sharing and such.

It _could_ , I suppose, be a positive: everybody come clean about the
past(keep that stuff a secret) and then have fair and reasonable limitations
going forward. There was a day when I thought like that... :)

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Dwolb
Does anyone know credentials of the people negotiating these deals? Are they
well-paid?

If these deals' negotiations have to be secret and since so much is at stake,
I'd hope my government would have the best negotiators, psychologists,
economists, spies, or other personnel that money can buy.

~~~
swombat
Based on ExpiredLink's comment elsewhere in this thread, it doesn't seem like
the deal is secret at all? Here's the EU page on it:
[http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230](http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=1230)

~~~
sandstrom
I some parts are still held secret; this is only the EU-side, I think the US
are still keeping their citizens in the dark; and EU only started publishing
some details after heavy criticism, it should have been transparent from the
beginning.

~~~
kuschku
And the EU side decided that all ISDS trials have to be done at a court that
is staffed with judges from both contract partners and rules in public.

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gotofritz
Needs a mirror

