
The inside story of Lenovo's ThinkPad redesign - Lightning
http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/17/the-inside-story-of-lenovo-thinkpad-redesign/
======
old-gregg
Fuck that. The UltraNav is gone. Looks like I won't have the 3 trackpad
buttons under my thumbs on the next gen. No more opening links in a new tab
with a single button click. Ughh. I guess people just don't want to pay for
nice things anymore...

The previous generation of Thinkpads lost their IPS displays and switched to
el-cheapo "short screens", the current generation of Thinkpads lost the proper
keyboard and switched to shitty chiclet style calculator keyboards, and the
next one is going to lose the UltraNav.

Consumerization of computers sucks. They used to be tools for professionals,
now everyone is optimizing for disposable facebook terminals. I hope that at
some point the tablets and phones are going to completely take over the
consumer market and someone will start making usable laptops again.

~~~
pjmlp
Since IBM sold the Thinkpad unit, quality has been downhill. :(

~~~
latitude
That'd be an obvious assumption to make, but I've been using both IBM and
Lenovo versions and I frankly don't see much of a difference. Any concrete
examples?

~~~
pjmlp
The T410 keyboard from my current model against my old T43.

The screen quality of some T420 here in office.

------
mindslight
Oh cuil, they took away tactile feedback from clicking and will probably
require a binary blob just to make the trackpoint "buttons" work. And no more
dedicated buttons for volume control (they probably took away the mixer
hardware behind those, too. it was nice to not be at software's mercy).
Although I guess these things aren't as bad as every new laptop having a
shortscreen, sigh.

It's articles like this that are the problem, with phrases such as "still an
Ethernet port" and "change too little, and your rivals maintain the edge in
design". You don't compete by following Apple - the people who want buttonless
sealed-up devices still won't choose you. You've got to stick to your
strengths.

~~~
vacri
I never before wanted to reach through the tubes and slap a reviewer like I
did when I read 'still an ethernet port'. I work in the heart of the city, and
there are something like 20-30 wifi networks that pop up when you look. I've
never bothered counting. But compare only having that connection versus having
wifi for when you want it plus having a wired gigE connection.

------
edlinfan
Here's what I got from the article.

\- Island style backlit keyboard

\- No more physical buttons for the touchpad or pointing stick

\- Function keys now default to Media keys

\- "Thinner and sleeker" is more important than anything else.

In other words, the machine is getting more and more similar to standard mass-
market notebooks. I don't know why they'd ditch exactly what sets them apart
from the competition.

~~~
joenathan
I always tell my customers if they want a laptop that will last to get a
Thinkpad T series. As long as they don't compromise the build quality I'll be
happy.

~~~
masklinn
Why not a toughbook? Something like an SX2[0] or a C2[1]

[0] [http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/business-
rugged-...](http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/business-rugged-
laptop-toughbook-SX2.asp) [1]
[http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/semi-
rugged-C2-c...](http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/semi-
rugged-C2-convertible-tablet-pc.asp)

~~~
joenathan
Toughbooks are extremely costly and heavy, I'd recommend them to people doing
field work, otherwise they are a bit excessive,

~~~
masklinn
They are costly indeed, for the same reason "original" thinkpads or MBPs are
costly: they're worth it.

As to "heavy", I linked to "business rugged" series of toughbooks. Fully
rugged toughbooks (those you see on field work) are built like tanks and heavy
as fuck indeed (e.g. Toughbook 19 with 5.1 lbs or Toughbook 31 with 7.9 lbs),
these are much sleeker machines: way above an average laptop, but not MIL-STD
or IP65 by a long shot.

The SX2 is 3.1 lbs. By comparison, a 2012 MBA is 2.38 (11") to 2.96 lbs (13").
Would you really call 3.1 lbs "heavy"? Let alone "extremely" so? (the C2 is a
big bit heaver at 3.6 lbs, as it's a convertible tablet with a bunch more
features like hot-swappable batteries)

~~~
joenathan
Thank you! I'll look more into the business line of the toughbooks.

------
kbuck
Sorry, Lenovo, I'd rather have "dropped 3 feet onto tile floor and still works
fine" than "thin and sleek". This is why I buy ThinkPads, not because they're
trendy and look cool. My laptop is for getting things done, not acting as a
fashion accessory.

I also don't really see the logic behind getting rid of the hardware buttons
for the trackpoint but keeping the VGA port. How are hardware mouse buttons
uglier than a VGA port? Every time I look at my VGA port, I wish it were HDMI
or DisplayPort.

It looks like my current ThinkPad will be my last.

------
jjjeffrey
I've had a T61p for 4 or 5 years. 1920x1280 screen. A Core 2 Duo that doesn't
feel dated. I dread the day that something happens and I need to get a new
laptop. I think other fans will know what I mean when I say this one is
perfect.

~~~
gosu
I felt the same, until I put it in my backpack while on and the video card
died. That particular model has a known defect in the soldering on the video
vard (NVIDIA's fault), so be careful with how you use it.

Fun fact: apparently, people have fixed theirs by putting the motherboard in
an oven to resolder it.

~~~
yuhong
Ah, Bumpgate and BGA soldering problems.

------
adamors
So, they removed a lot of good things but failed to add a better screen. I
love my X220 and was looking to buy a newer model since the 1366x768 screen is
really limiting, but I guess I'm done with Thinkpads for good.

~~~
rogerbinns
I have the T430s (predecessor model of the article). It is almost a perfect
machine - I have a fast CPU, 16GB of RAM, both 500GB HDD and a 250GB SSD,
thunderbolt, fingerprint reader, a DVD drive I replaced with a battery etc. It
weighs 1.8kg which is fine. This is an excellent mobile powerhouse. (I have a
Nexus 10 for light fluffy stuff.)

But then the screen is 1600x900, 16:9 and there is a massive bezel (4.5cm
vertically and 3.2cm horizontally). I want more dpi, I want a more sensible
aspect ratio and I'll take a larger screen (unfortunately the 15" T530 plus
wide bezel was just too large).

The screen is the thing they made no effort to fix.

~~~
glesica
I will second this. I have the same machine, the aspect ratio is completely
obnoxious for anything productive. Not wide enough for two decently sized
windows side-by-side, and cramped vertically. UGH.

------
kennae
The design looks great. But after I got my first Thinkpad I started to use the
physical mouse buttons with the touchpad, and even disabled all the point-and-
click stuff and after that you can use it almost as good as a separate mouse.
I would hate to go back to push-and-lick actions.

To the media keys being default, that is not an problem, you can change them
back in BIOS to work as regular F-keys.

Thinner and sleeker is always a good thing if the build quality is what it
used to be, and I believe it is.

Keyboard backlight is also a great thing if you just can change the level to
be very minimal to barely see the keys in the dark.

All in all, this very well may be my next laptop.

And to you guys you whine about not enough usb-ports or the lack of CD-drive,
I'm sure there is a Thinkpad coming with the new design that gives you all
that and more.

The fact is, people very rarely need CD-drive and tons of ports, this machine
will suit really big part of the population and like me, im happy to sacrifice
CD-drive and few ports for a lighter machine that I carry around daily.

(sorry for the bad english, it is not my native language)

~~~
pondababa
I actually prefer the old Thinklight. I often use it as a reading light for
notes while I'm working on my computer.

~~~
Ao7bei3s
I have a T430s. It has both the keyboard backlight and the thinklight. I had
an R500 before that had just the thinklight. I very, very strongly prefer the
keyboard backlight for three reasons:

1\. no reflections on the keys

2\. part of the thinklight reflects off the screen, reducing perceived
contrast (=(Imax+k)/(Imin+k) where k=ambient light)

3\. for some reason, I even find the backlight helpful in broad daylight

I didn't think it'd make so much of a difference before I got the T430s, but
for what it's intended it's just vastly superior. And I've found that now that
I have the backlight, I don't actually use the thinklight all too often
anymore, even though it's only two Fn+Space away.

YMMV.

------
pasbesoin
I noticed this post

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5392943>

and commented there (based on the specs sheet they show):

 _Not pleased.

Keyboard changes, including what appears to be a "sharper" front edge to the
palm rest. (I hate having that pressing into my wrists when a table is not at
the ideal typing height.)

Apparently only one DIMM; initial 4 GB soldered.

WWAN and mSATA share a slot; it's either/or.

No optical drive or spare drive bay. Yes, some of us still use those._

\--

P.S. Also, this perspective just occurred to me:

They are no longer offering a $1000 laptop. They are offering a $700 (perhaps
generous -- soon to be $600 or lower equivalent) laptop.

I won't pay them $1000 for this. I'll pick up a competitor's $600 model.

Aside from the price inflation, there's little left in this model of Thinkpad
to tempt me to make a longer-timeframe purchase decision. I'll probably switch
to buying something else, and just upgrading every year or year and a bit --
if and as needed.

------
kristianp
1600x900 display [1], but I don't hold much hope that it will be an IPS
screen. The screen viewing angle and lack of contrast is by far the worst part
of my T410.

[1] [http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/17/lenovo-
thinkpad-t431s-ult...](http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/17/lenovo-
thinkpad-t431s-ultrabook-official/)

------
benmccann
I wish they'd just upgrade the screen and leave everything else alone.

~~~
magic_haze
Agreed. This is one thing the chromebook pixel got absolutely right: the
resolution, and the 3:2 aspect ratio. Wish more devs would speak up against
these useless 16:9 displays that this Engadget reviewer bemoans.

~~~
prewett
I was one of those 16:9 haters, but then I realized it's really handy to be
able to have my progam's window and my editor/debugger on the screen and not
overlapping, or have my browser for API reference, my Emacs, and my compile
window all next to each other. You sacrifice vertical height, but make up for
it by not having to switch virtual desktops between documentation/code all the
time. Plus, it makes UI debugging so much nicer when switching to your
program's window doesn't cause a repaint when it's the paint routine, or a
menu or something that you're debugging.

Not only do I find it nicer for development, but there's the bonus that your
movies fit nicely (I don't use an actual TV, since a 17" laptop on my lap is a
similar visual angle as a large TV 10 feet away, and cheaper and more
portable, too).

~~~
snogglethorpe
Absolutely. I love wide displays, and I do vastly more dev type stuff than
anything else.

The amount of hate for wide displays you see on HN and other tech-centered
sites, and the apparent presumption that 4:3 is "obviously" better for devs,
has always puzzled me a bit. Surely it depends a lot on individual habits?

------
loser777
This is an interesting list: <http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display>

The T2x series from the early 2000s had arguably better displays.

------
Qantourisc
Do not like: no screen latch and no more physical buttons.

Luckily I buy a laptop for a few years and I run Linux, so I don't have to
upgrade any time soon. Maybe by then they will make decent laptops again.

------
martythemaniak
From the looks, it seems like a well thought out machine. Clean but still
distinctive design. If the innards and workings are as well thought out, it'll
be a great laptop.

------
mahmud
Never again. I was a Thinkpad loyalist, and used it exclusively for 12 years.
Last year I got a new one and the screen backlight died within 5 months.
Lenovo shat on the brand, and I'm not going back.

After sampling a few different products, I got myself a $400(!) Asus X501A.
Beautiful piece. Light as a feather. And has 3x the battery life of my
Thinkpad.

~~~
voltagex_
Yep. I got an eMachines 732Z (Asus) for $400 last year. $80 for 8GB of RAM and
$200 for a 256GB SSD (+$20 for an adaptor to put it where the DVD drive was)
and I have a dev laptop that'll eat just about everything else for breakfast.

------
dandidu
Lenovo did some research "about understanding users and their behavior" and
came up with a MacBook.

------
latitude
I hope they didn't epoxy that TCPA chip on the back of the motherboard -
<http://dribbble.com/shots/751583-Don-t-forget-your-password>

------
aviraldg
The "Terminator Edition" prototype looks like crap - Thinkpads' rubber finish
is what gives them their distinctive look, and changing that would be a
horrible, horrible mistake.

------
cmccabe
tl;dr

* horrible chiclet keyboard

* tap to click (no physical trackpad buttons)

* very few USB ports

* no CD/DVD drive

* no screen latch

~~~
vacri
It's not a chiclet keyboard - you can see the air gap under the keys in the
first photo.

~~~
pasbesoin
They already went chiclet with the T430. The photos out so far for the 431
have bad/odd lighting with some misleading reflections.

~~~
vacri
My mistake - I always thought 'chiclet keyboards, named after the gum'
referred to the rubber-mat keys that are truly horrible to type on, when it
refers to the style of contacts (rubber mat, but can have hard plastic caps).

~~~
pasbesoin
Opinions vary, but I have read several (about the last iteration, e.g. the
T430) that are more favorably inclined to the Lenovo version of these
"chiclet" keyboards. That their action is better and that the hard topped,
slightly curved keys are more comfortable.

Still, though, as far as I know one of those rubber mat "contraptions", under
the surface. And with the "island" style key placements (surrounded/separated
by a distinct surface, instead of the keys being immediately adjacent to each
other).

