
Dell’s Skylake XPS 13, Precision workstations now come with Ubuntu preinstalled - bpierre
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/03/dells-skylake-xps-13-precision-workstations-now-come-with-ubuntu-preinstalled/
======
ThePhysicist
I think it's really impressive what Dell has put together here. As my old
Thinkpad T430 is nearing it's fourth anniversary I have been looking for an
upgrade for a while and compared different options with a focus on
lightweight, powerful laptops with good Linux support. And so far the XPS 13
seems way more attractive than the new Lenovo Skylake laptops (e.g. the 460s),
which have lower resolution displays (some models still start with a 1.366 x
768 (!) display, which is just ridiculous in 2016), less and slower RAM,
smaller hard drives and -as far as I can tell from the specs- less battery
life as compared to the XPS 13 but are actually 300 - 400 $ more expensive,
even when choosing three year guarantee for the XPS. The only thing I don't
like about the XPS is Dell's guarantee, which is "send in", meaning that I
probably won't see my laptop for a few weeks if it has to be repaired, whereas
Lenovo will send a service technician to me who will usually be able to repair
the laptop immediately (I already had to make use of this service twice, once
to exchange a noisy fan and once to replace a broken display bezel).

I guess I'll wait for Apple to reveal the new MB Pro line before making a
decision, but it seems that for the first time in 10 years my next laptop will
not be a Lenovo/IBM.

~~~
MichaelGG
The XPS13 appears to have a junk trackpad (no buttons, no middle button) and a
messed up keyboard (I don't always use the arrows but when I do, those tiny
ones suck.) And no trackpoint? Despite better other specs, poor basic human
interaction devices are a showstopper. ThinkPads are the only ones I've seen
with fairly good keyboards (even after Lenovo's "redesign").

Dell does have on call service, and in some countries it's better than Lenovo
by far. I've had Dell send a guy into a village up a mountain in a 3rd world
country, next day (!) whereas I couldn't even figure out how to make a claim
with Lenovo in that country (and friends that work for the relevant company
there confirm there is no inventory).

~~~
toyg
Sorry dude, you're stuck in 2001. Physical trackpad buttons break, and break
often -- which is why they're disappearing. MacBook trackpads are widely
recognized as superior, and they are buttonless. The "clit" is also a history
footnote at this point, it never got mainstream adoption. If you like
Thinkpads that's fine, but don't try to pass your judgement as something
universal because it's clearly coming from a very small minority.

~~~
MichaelGG
I guess people really just have wildly different feelings. I think Apple's
laptops are terrible. Hot, poor keyboard, hard trackpad - you've gotta really
press down on the thing. Maybe I'm "using it wrong". (Excellent screens
though.)

I think I've had trackpoint buttons fail once, sorta. On a used ThinkPad X201
I got for $300, and just this week, clicks seem intermittent. But it's been
under heavy use in an elementary classroom so I'm not sure what kind of stress
it's gone through. I've never had an issue with laptop buttos otherwise that I
can recall, thinking back to the early 90s.

~~~
willthames
I don't think you're using it wrong, but the default for the trackpad is a
hard click, as you say.

But you can set the trackpad (Preferences > Trackpad > Point & Click > Tap to
click) to accept a soft finger tap. And two finger tap is equivalent to a
right click.

I think the MBP trackpad is the primary reason for me not moving to another
laptop, even as I become less and less enamoured with OS X itself.

------
jaseemabid
> They come with Windows by default, but you can pick Ubuntu instead and shave
> about $100 off the price.

How awesome!

~~~
alkonaut
I thought the "Microsoft tax" was effectively negative these days, i.e that
Microsoft wanted Dell to sell Windows machines so OEM licenses are very cheap,
but more importantly that the crapware bundlers were also paying the
manufacturers to have the trial of their particular AV software pre installed.

That's why I'm surprised the Ubuntu isn't more expensive than the Windows
version even if a Windows license itself would add to the cost.

~~~
StavrosK
I love the random Swedish word in an otherwise flawlessly English comment!

~~~
sethammons
Which word?

~~~
StavrosK
He had "effektivt" (or similar) instead of "effectively" initially.

------
jpalomaki
I was surprised to notice that the XPS 15 comes also with quad core CPUs and
supports 32GB max memory. Interesting option for those looking for desktop
level performance in reasonably sized package.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Anyone know how thermal management is on high-end laptop-version Skylakes? I
have a three-year-old Dell Precision 15" with a quad core i7 (Sandy Bridge) at
work. If I throw work at all the cores simultaneously, it takes about 60
seconds before it starts throttling the CPU to avoid thermal overload... Which
makes it a bit useless IMO. Has this improved recently?

~~~
JetSetWilly
I have the 6700HQ in an XPS-15, it never seems to throttle - for example
earlier today when I built firefox with -j8 it just pegged all cores and never
let up.

I can be a tad noisy in this situation as you would expect, but from what I
have seen - and reviews back me up - it doesn't throttle.

~~~
MichaelGG
You mean that in addition to showing all cores fully used, the frequency
didn't drop below base?

~~~
JetSetWilly
Yes exactly.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Thanks! Exactly what I was wondering.

------
boothead
Any info on when this (or the XPS 15 with linux) will be available in the UK?
I just had a look on Dell's website, and as expected it's still a shower of
shit WRT finding what you want.

I bought one of the first or 2nd gen XPS 13s and loved it. However the
experience of buying from Dell was awful and customer service was so
intractable as to be useless too.

~~~
storrgie
Seems like there isn't a way to get a 15 without being forced into hybrid
graphics.... :(

~~~
cududa
"forced into hybrid graphics" you mean 'modern hardware'? Sorry if your OS of
choice doesn't support the trends of this decade

------
latch
I've oft wondered if these would sell better without the Dell branding. Put a
nondescript logo on the back (no word), remove all "Dell".

This really annoyed me years ago when I spent a small fortune on a beautiful
TV that had "COMPANY" in white letters on the otherwise perfect dark bezel.

~~~
mseebach
Why would the branding matter? Any halfway serious person knows that Dell
makes decent (if slightly boring and enterprisy) stuff, and that it's about
what you do with it that matters, anyway. The hipsters are going to see that
it's not a Macbook from a mile away, Dell logo or not. If anything, I myself
would be likely to assume that an unbranded laptop is something dodgy picked
out of a supermarket clearance bin.

> a beautiful TV that had "COMPANY" in white letters on the otherwise perfect
> dark bezel

That distracts from watching the screen and so actually affects the primary
operation of the TV. I'd argue that's a very different matter than the
presence of a logo on a laptop lid that you can't even see when using the
computer.

~~~
JadeNB
> I'd argue that's a very different matter than the presence of a logo on a
> laptop lid that you can't even see when using the computer.

I haven't used a Dell for a long time, and never a laptop, but the other
commenters seem to be discussing a logo on the bezel itself, directly visible
to the person using the computer.

------
siscia
I am a little scared by the touch screen, I have never had one and I don't
think I need it...

Anyway the extra complexity that come with it doesn't makes me comfortable...

Any experiences so far ?

~~~
abrowne
There will be a non-touch option (a matte 1080p screen): "The i5 configuration
will come with 8GB RAM, a 256GB SSD and FHD NT. The timing of the i5 config is
dependent on the depletion of the current inventory on hand." From the project
lead's blog: [http://bartongeorge.net/2016/03/10/xps-13-developer-
edition-...](http://bartongeorge.net/2016/03/10/xps-13-developer-edition-
launches-in-us-ubuntu-based-workstations-available-worldwide/)

I'm personally looking forward to this model!

~~~
Adaptive
I have the previous gen xps 13 9350 in matte 1080p and it's great. I don't
want higher res or touch. Plus lower power. I do wish I had 16GB in it, but
that wasn't an option.

------
kylec
Apple better hurry up with Skylake MacBooks, these look very tempting.

~~~
mamon
One more week - on March 21st Apple will probably debut MacBook Pro 13 with
Skylake. For 15 inch version we would probably need to wait untill June

------
tholford
Bought a used first or second gen Developer Edition XPS13 last year, installed
Mint 17.2 on it and have been very pleasantly surprised. Pretty much just as
functional as my old MBP for half the price :)

~~~
maartenpi_
Did sth similar here with a XPS15 (9530). Installed Ubuntu 15.10 on it, most
of it works pretty smooth. A second screen is a bit of a hassle if you don't
get a 3200x1800-one. Besides that I didn't really have issues. Touch also
works fine ;)

------
forgotpwtomain
I have a new XPS 15 running the 4.4 Kernel - Skylake is very buggy as is the
broadcom wireless firmware.

Also slight physical tremors can cause complete system crashes. I would stay
away from it.

~~~
nyc640
All the laptops mentioned in the article ship with Intel WiFi.

~~~
forgotpwtomain
>> We really liked the updated Skylake-powered Dell XPS 13, and its bigger
brother, the XPS 15, was also pretty great.

> All the laptops mentioned in the article ship with Intel WiFi.

This is wrong - the XPS 15 does not.

> 02:00.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM43602 802.11ac Wireless
> LAN SoC (rev 01)

~~~
nyc640
*All the laptops mentioned in the article as shipping with Linux from Dell will in fact come with Intel WiFi.

~~~
forgotpwtomain
> *All the laptops mentioned in the article as shipping with Linux from Dell
> will in fact come with Intel WiFi.

Source? I see no indication of that (here is where they link to for the XPS
15: [http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/dell-
xps-15-review-a-...](http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/dell-
xps-15-review-a-bigger-version-of-the-best-pc-laptop/))

~~~
desdiv
[http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9350-laptop-
ubuntu/...](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9350-laptop-
ubuntu/pd?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&fl=p)

>Intel 8260 2x2 802.11ac 2.4/5GHz + Bluetooth4.1

~~~
forgotpwtomain
That's a link for the 13' not the 15'

~~~
spankalee
>*All the laptops mentioned in the article as shipping with Linux from Dell
will in fact come with Intel WiFi.

------
davidw
I've been very happy with the various XPS 13 systems. This one looks even
better. Most likely my next computer.

~~~
th0br0
I've got a new XPS13 edition. There's a few downsides like I absolutely have
to run the latest kernel - 4.5.0-rc7 - to not have iGPU issues and not all WMI
keys being supported properly (running Fedora rawhide). But other than that, I
get about a 7w/s power consumption without optimising anything. That makes for
9-10hrs of usage, even under Linux!

Oh, and repairing them seems to be dead cheap as well. My XPS13 took a little
dive, replacing pretty much the whole ultrabook put me back 320 EUR.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Nitpick: 7w/s is not the correct unit for power consumption. Watt is already
energy per second, i.e. power consumption. Watt per second is the unit for
change in power consumption.

------
arca_vorago
I have ordered a few midline desktops from dell for testing their Ubuntu
setup. In the end I wiped and installed my own, and the eula that pops up on
first boot was fucking ridiculous, I mean I know they like tonpush the
boundaries for self protection, and I understand things like wanted to keep
any issues in their jurisdiction and stuff like that, but clauses in the eula
stated you waved all rights including constitutional ones (yes, the word
constitutional was used in the actual eula,) agreed to forfeit any trial by
jury or anybother legal procedure except private arbitration in Dells
jurisdiction, and some other stuff that really bothered me to see as the first
thing that popped up on first boot.

Lots of it is obviously totally unenforceable and wouldnt stand in court, but
they put it in there anyway just because they can get away with it.

Does no one do reasonable eulas/tos?

------
krob
If you're not looking for an ultra book. I've got a 7510 Dell Precision Laptop
base. i7-6820HQ supports upto 64gb of ram in the laptop, 2 ram slots above
keyboard, 2 below. Supports 1 m.2 epci nvme, 1 sata3. I've Samsung 950 Pro
NVME 512gb ssd, 1 2tb Samsung Evo 850. I don't believe the NVME works w/o AHCI
booting. My experience with linux on this laptop was bar none one of the best.
I did have to install ubuntu 15.10, but everything worked without a hitch.
This laptop also worked with optimus graphics chip switching. Quadro 4gb DDR4
M2002 chip. Battery is really impressive. Monitor is 4k matted. It's probably
the best laptop I've ever owned. Since I purchased it, it now comes with usb
type-c w/ thunderbolt 40gbit support. So you can get a really nice fancy
docking port for it. Also I've a 2014 macbook pro fully loaded and this is
only 1lb heavier than that was. You can also get a xeon chip on this platform.
[http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7510-workstatio...](http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7510-workstation/pd?oc=xctomp751015us)

------
nickpsecurity
History repeats: the Dell Inspiron that just crapped out on me (somewhat)
after years of use was their first Linux model. It also had Ubuntu by default.
Great laptop. Interesting enough, after all the updates, I'm having trouble
finding something that works out of the box that's not Ubuntu. It's running
Fedora fine right now but software management is totally different from my
Debian-based experience. Might ditch it. ;)

------
giovannibajo1
The previous models didn't support DFS in wifi 5ghz making them unable to work
in high density wifi environments. Actually what's worse is that they
randomically lose connection on a DFS AP (when the channel gets into one of
the DFS-reserved ones they can't access). So you basically have to force them
on 2.4 or disable DFS on the APs.

This applied to both the Broadcom and Intel wifi. Any chance these models are
better in this regard?

~~~
treffer
The only cards that support DFS are atheros ath10k (I've tried DFS frequencies
with an openwrt AP).

Anyway, I've yet to see an ath10k mini-pcie cards that would fit into this
machine. The wireless can be easily replaced (at least on last years machine),
so hardware hints welcome.

------
mistat
Are these available in Australia yet? I can only ever find reference to the US
store

------
Mikeb85
It's nice to see Dell beginning to actually adopt Linux and Ubuntu. I always
kind of figured part of the strategy of going private was to be able to move
away from the status quo of being just another Windows vendor... By offering
choice and eliminating lock-in, they can go after techie types and serious
users who otherwise would have probably just bought a ThinkPad or MBP.

------
davidy123
This is great, but Thinkpads have always had good Linux support. I have a
friend who bought the previous XPS 13 Ubuntu edition and it had all kinds of
problems which are only being worked out now, problems that aren't present on
most Thinkpads.

I got the X1 Yoga one month after it came out, installed an alpha version of
Ubuntu 16.04 on it and everything just works, including the touch screen.

------
manaskarekar
I've had great luck with Dells for Linux support. Lubuntu on Latitudes has run
flawlessly over the years.

It is unfortunate that Dell chose to use small arrow keys and at the same time
overload the arrow keys with the 'Home-End-PgUp-PgDown'. Hard to believe this
layout was chosen for their Latitude and Precision lines too.

~~~
Glyptodon
Yeah, I have a Dell (a cheap plastic 13" of some kind) and don't mind the
small arrow buttons. But I can't stand that they used them with fn for
begin/end/page up/page down.

------
Ruud-v-A
I’ve been running Arch Linux on the non-developer edition XPS 15, and I’ve
experienced very little problems. Occasionally the touchpad does not work, and
sometimes headphone audio is silent. Other than that, everything works like a
charm, even the Broadcom WiFi adapter.

------
otar
One tiny detail that bothers me is that there's a Windows logo on the
keyboard. It could be Tux or Ubuntu logo.

Tux Penguin sticker solved my problem on my XPS 13, but would be nice to see
it coming out of the box.

~~~
jon-wood
I reconcile the Windows logo on my keyboards by using it as the meta key in
XMonad, meaning the windows key is used to manage windows.

------
jgalt212
I have a new (purchased Dec '15) XPS 15. And despite having dual booted about
10-15 different PCs and laptops (mostly Dell and HP) have thus far have had
zero success getting Ubuntu on my new box. I suspect it has to do with two
internal hard drives, but I've sort of given up at this point (I bricked the
first box, and Dell sent me a new one) and relegate this otherwise very nice
laptop to the accounting department to run Quickbooks and Office.

------
yitchelle
Can anyone share their experience when compared to Macbook Air?

~~~
zavandor
I've recently switched from Macbook Air 11", running Linux, to XPS 13. They
are practically same size, XPS is a bit bulkier, its plastic attracts
fingerpints like crazy unlike Mac's aluminium, and I absolutely hate it that
Fn and Ctrl positions are swapped and there's absolutely no way to override
that. But beside all this, it's a very nice machine technically and I'm quite
happy with it.

------
_RPM
I seriously can't tell if this article being here is an advertisement. Is it
possible the site owners have been paid to have this post here?

------
Timshel
Looked really good until they had to botch something: let's put hdmi 1.4 and
no DisplayPort, it's not like we're selling 4k screen ...

~~~
jkot
USB-C is display port. Reduction is $10

~~~
Timshel
O yeah missed that there is direct usb-c cable to DP thought it needed another
adapter.

------
dblooman
Is there a 13 or 15 inch laptop without a number pad that supports Ubuntu for
less than £500 that uses an Core i5 Skylake CPU?

------
pascalo
For all the people dealing with shitty dell customer support on the phone, try
using their @dellcares twitter account. Had a broken acreen glass and later a
faulty fan on my 2014 xps 13, and they sent around a technician each time, all
via twitter. Much less painfull than hanging on the phone. Excellent customer
support.

~~~
jjawssd
This is really strange. Why is this?

~~~
passivepinetree
It could be because of the immediate negative publicity complaints on social
media get.

Irate customer complains via Twitter, @ mentions Dell => a bunch of people see
it.

Irate customer complains via a private communication channel => others are
much less likely to notice/find out.

------
rcthompson
The placement of the webcam in the lower left corner is truly idiotic.

------
ciokan
Just got the xps 15 (9550) yesterday which had windows on it. Installed ubuntu
16.04 beta and works very well. I had huge problems trying to install any
lower version of ubuntu & variants.

~~~
mtreis86
Is speed step turned on in the bios? I have had issues with installing lower
(3.x) kernels on my dell desktops and turning speed step off worked

~~~
ciokan
No idea. I haven't changed anything besides safe boot ans some UEFI bits.

------
tiatia
I use an XPS 13 with Kubuntu.

I have no experience with preinstalled Linux, but similar to Android, I would
be afraid of presinstalled crabware. Just remove the windows and make a clean
install.

------
moonbug
At the other end of the spectrum, the 5" Inspiron 3552 that comes with Ubuntu,
which I'm typing this on, is quite the best 200 dollar laptop you can get.

~~~
listic
You have missed a significant digit. For a moment there, I thought I have
missed something and netbooks are back again (with screens as small as 5",
this time).

------
jkot
Price is not that great. 16GB RAM version is more expensive than Windows
edition at my local shop (Prague). At least it has Intel wifi.

~~~
tomschlick
RAM is usually a terrible thing to upgrade via the manufacturer (too
expensive) unless its soldered in like some of the macbooks.

~~~
jkot
XPS 13 has RAM soldered on board

~~~
tomschlick
good to know, didn't think anyone but apple did that currently

~~~
richardboegli
Razer do as well.

------
nivertech
I waiting for Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 4th gen with Skylake CPU. Anybody
knows if it's already available?

------
natch
Does this have a magsafe-type connector for the power cord?

I did look for it in the review but maybe I missed it.

~~~
davidbanham
No, but it does allow you to charge via USB-C which is pretty great.

------
modzu
looks great on paper, but the 2015 xps13 had some serious issues like useless
webcam and trackpad...

it's the laptop that flipped me to mac. wont go back.

------
Vlaix
Now make a laptop with a keyboard and touchpad that justifies me stopping
frankensteining my old machines to keep them alive.

That chiclet keyboard and phone-sized pad nonsense is very limiting.

------
intrasight
Is it less expensive than one with Windows?

------
Raed667
The only thing holding me back is the CPU.

------
bliti
How much does this thing cost?

------
cttet
The keyboard though.

------
tunichtgut
Hell, its about time!

~~~
JustSomeNobody
I don't understand. Dell has been shipping Linux on laptops for a very long
time.

~~~
mixmastamyk
It's been a long wait for Skylake, 16gb+, and hi-dpi... personally I've been
waiting about two years for the last two.

------
akerro
Why is this a news? I bought two laptops before, both of them came with Linux,
one Asus one Dell.

------
xkiwi
If anyone needs or have to install windows 7 on DELL brand laptops for any
reason, I highly recommend you to wait until you confirm it can be done.

I have Dell XPS/Precision 11 and 13, the problem is the Windows 7 have
difficulty to boot from UEFI, and you will stuck because AHCI is not supported
by these DELL's BIOS.

~~~
izacus
What does any of that have to do with Ubuntu shipped Dell XPS 13s?

~~~
xkiwi
I bought some XPS 13 with ubuntu installed. By the time I need windows 7 on
the field, but I found out it is not possible because you will stuck at "AHCI
not competable" BSoD no matter what ever you do.

I bet not everyone realized it is not possible(with my limited knowledge) to
install Windows 7 on DELL laptops with UEFI bios.

~~~
bitwize
Put Windows 7 in a VM on the Linux partition.

