
Author of ‘Sapiens’ on how meditation made him a better historian - prostoalex
http://www.vox.com/2017/2/28/14745596/yuval-harari-sapiens-interview-meditation-ezra-klein
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Shoop
Does anyone else have experience meditating this much? Many people seem to
attribute a lot of their success to meditating daily and swear its benefits
elsewhere in life. However, two hours a day as well as one sixth of the year
nonstop is a lot of meditating. At that point are you meditating just because
you enjoy it or is it still beneficial enough to be worth the time commitment?

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mindfulgeek
Think of meditation as exercise for the mind. the more time you spend, the
healthier it can be. Although like anything, in excess it can cause problems.
Think of an elite athlete. They can be injured or need to retire early or
surgeries from over use. Too much meditation can bring a person too far away
from their physical reality. Everything in moderation.

I meditate between 1-2 hours a day. Sometimes I will do more and sometimes
less. I find it saves me more time that it costs. I get distracted less, I
need less sleep and I find myself in the right place at the right time more
often. I also have more clarity on what is important so the time I have, I use
wisely.

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09bjb
I disagree that it can bring a person too far away from their physical
reality. On the contrary, it can bring to into such acute awareness of all of
your senses in the present moment that those around you feel painfully
distracted, or even creeped out by your expansive attention.

Not that this a state I attain very frequently :P

~~~
mindfulgeek
Wonderful that you connect to that state at all!

There are certain breath techniques that will land you in the clouds. If you
do a practice like that without proper grounding, you are likely to be very
disconnected from physical reality. That's my opinion and personal experience.
In general (and they have the science to back this up) it heightens awareness
of your senses. Though people who meditate have higher pain tolerance -- not
because they feel less (since they feel more) -- because they have developed
willpower to not react to stimulus the same way. Super fascinating!

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westoncb
If nothing else, I could see meditation helping with history work in that it
sort of forces you to be more honest with yourself. I say 'sort of,' because
that way of writing it may give the wrong impression. It's like, you can see
your alternate motivations at play more readily and decide against following
up, whereas ordinarily we trick ourselves into thinking we have only pure
motivations.

To give an example, consider how this might affect authors of literature.
Hemingway among others has made a big deal about writing that is 'truly
honest'. Part of the difficulty there is that when you're writing, you have
competing motivations in constructing all aspects from high level plot and
characters to individual sentences. Some of those motivations have to do with
vanity, career goals, laziness, etc. (e.g. writing in a style that establishes
your intelligence, rather than because it serves communication). After enough
time practicing meditation of a certain style (excellent description in the
article), you start seeing the presence of these other factors as you work on
things and can more easily choose to let them go.

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NumberCruncher
>> human rights are a fictional story just like God and heaven

What a heretical thought. It makes me want to read the book of the author.
Somehow similar like
[http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/GiftDaughter.htm](http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/GiftDaughter.htm)

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jpmoral
It does not seem as heretical when taken in context (rights do not exist,
biologically speaking).

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gbog
Neither do maths, physical laws, etc. I think it is wrong and dangerous to
equal Human Rights, which are an ethical decision, to religious beliefs, which
are cultural construct much closer to "fictional stories" for non-believers.
This new trend in anti-humanism carried by Harari, who is read widely, or
Peter Singer, is frightening.

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jpmoral
Interesting, I interpreted it as human rights not having basis in physical
science and therefore all the more important for individuals and society to
champion. However I do see how the quote can be seen as equating human rights
to cultural fiction of arguable merit, which I agree is dangerous.

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test001only
60 days of retreat sounds so difficult and also impossible for somebody like
me who is tied to daily job. Curious s where is the retreat that he visits
every year? Also any other daily practice which can have an equivalent effect?

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PuerkitoBio
I don't think you can expect a daily practice to have "an equivalent effect"
to a 60-day retreat. I know there are 10-day retreats for vipassana meditation
just about everywhere in the world (probably for many other types of
meditation too), though I've never been to one (scares the hell out of me to
be honest, must be so incredibly hard - both mentally and physically).

I recently started meditating for 20-30 minutes at a time, once or twice a
day, and the eerie calmness that settles in when I'm done (for the "good"
sessions) is a great feeling. I can only imagine what 10 and 60 days can do.

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krrrh
It's worth it. I've done two 10 day courses and you learn to develop your
focus in ways that are pretty hard to believe without going through it.

I know about a dozen people who have done the 10-day Goenka course. It is
definitely hard _work_ because you are meditating for around 10 hours a day,
but it isn't actually what I would call hard to do; all your needs and
schedule are taken care of and you just give into it.

A lot of the resistance for me was actually preparing family and clients for
me being completely offline and unreachable for 10 days, and going through
that was a revelation separate from the benefits of the meditation.

The recommendation I give to everyone is that if you have any interest, just
book a course several months out when you think you may be able to make it. If
you end up not being able to or not feeling ready, then you can very easily
cancel in advance, and there is usually a waiting list anyway. However,
booking a spot seems to set the wheels in motion.

~~~
PuerkitoBio
Thanks for sharing, good to hear stories from people that have done it.

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qohen
_good to hear stories from people that have done it._

FYI, there are now many articles/blog posts/etc. by people who have done these
Vipissana retreats -- this Google search will find you some:

[https://www.google.com/search?q=vipissana+10+day+retreats](https://www.google.com/search?q=vipissana+10+day+retreats)

(Here's one with the details of the daily schedule (among other things), if
that's of interest:

[https://oneshrinksperspective.com/2013/06/27/i-am-slowly-
goi...](https://oneshrinksperspective.com/2013/06/27/i-am-slowly-going-crazy-
my-experience-of-a-10-day-silent-vipassana-meditation-course/) )

~~~
MichaelGG
It's important to note that the sales line of this being purely practical
without dogma is completely false. Goenka is very clear in the lectures that
meditation is all about purifying yourself for reincarnation. There's tons of
anti science stuff, like claiming Buddha knew more about physics than the
inventor of the cloud chamber.

The entire time, he chants in a dead language, and they want you to blindly
recite things in said dead language. He purposely plays with his accent and
speaking in order to push a bit of mystical properties to what he's saying
(repeating words over and over, laying on a thick accent, whereas at other
times he is capable of speaking very clearly).

The actual practise may be fine, but I found the woo-factor to be incredibly
high - false advertising.

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krrrh
In addition to this interview with Ezra Klein, Harari was also interviewed
recently by noted proponent of Vipassana meditation, Sam Harris, in a podcast
episode released earlier today:

[https://overcast.fm/+BSCDk9Xmk](https://overcast.fm/+BSCDk9Xmk)

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AlexMuir
What would be a good way to start meditating? Nothing too intense - just to
dip a toe in.

~~~
taylorlapeyre
I found the app "Headspace" to be a good introduction to the process and
concept.

After completing the first 10 guided sessions, I read most of "Mindfulness in
Plain English" by Henepola Gunaratana. It was good for a deeper dive into
Vipassana meditation in particular and did a good job of keeping the more
religious overtones to a minimum. I definitely recommend it.

~~~
reubenswartz
Agree with the Headspace recommendation. It seems cheesy to need an app to
concentrate, but Headspace makes it so easy to get started...

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ca98am79
In case anyone is interested, you can do a 10-day Vipassana meditation retreat
for free. You can sign up and read more about it at
[http://dhamma.org](http://dhamma.org)

They have locations all over the world and are run by volunteers. It is not
affiliated with any religion.

I highly recommend it! (I have done two 10-day retreats)

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intrasight
A great book. I listened to Audible on my last roadtrip.

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vowelless
> The Israeli historian’s mind-bending tour through the obama of Homo sapiens
> is a favorite of, among others, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Donald
> Trump.

I have never seen the word 'obama' used like that. Is that a typo?

Edit: NEVER MIND - I got duped by a joke extension that I forgot I had added a
long time ago.

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vongomben
Funny part is that when I see now the article I read this > Yuval Noah
Harari’s first book, Sapiens, was an international sensation. The Israeli
historian’s mind-bending tour through the trump of Homo sapiens is a favorite
of, among others, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Barack Obama.

~~~
mirimir
Help, please.

What does "the trump of Homo sapiens" mean?

Victory in natural selection?

Wouldn't that be "the trump by Homo sapiens"?

English is strange.

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Mikeb85
If one thing trumps another, it means the first thing displaces or achieves
victory over the second.

"Trump of homo sapiens" means they were victorious, as they trumped the other
party.

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mirimir
Thanks. I'm familiar with "trump" as a verb. But not as a noun. And I've
always had trouble with "of". So "the victory of Homo sapiens" is sounding
better now.

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bizzleDawg
I feel like there's a chance that they wanted to say 'triumph' but muscle
memory took over after 'tr'

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soufron
What a schmuck :D

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dang
Please stop posting unsubstantive comments here.

