
Questions People Ask When I Tell Them I Own an Airplane - jeiting
http://www.fivezeromike.com/blog/2014/2/18/top-questions
======
lutusp
It's important to say that the general aviation population has gotten much
smaller over the last few decades. It was a lot more popular 25 years ago when
I flew much more than I do now. A number of aircraft manufacturers have
stopped building small general-aviation planes for a number of reasons
including liability and a reduction in public interest.

I started flying about 1980. By 1992, 12 years later, about half the pilots I
knew in 1980 (instructors as well as students) had been killed in flying
accidents. That's another reason for the decline in activity.

~~~
ekianjo
> about half the pilots I knew in 1980 (instructors as well as students) had
> been killed in flying accidents

Wow, that's certainly dissuasive.

By the way, are there some kind of autopilots on modern amateur planes? Or is
that even possible to integrate any ?

~~~
tlrobinson
From the makers of X-Plane: [http://www.x-plane.com/x-world/hardware/seeker-
avionics/](http://www.x-plane.com/x-world/hardware/seeker-avionics/)

(I don't fly and know nothing about this but it sounds pretty cool)

~~~
StavrosK
That's amazing, think of all the lives it will save!

------
JHof
I don't like all this talk of risk and death. While it's true that more
accidents happen with small GA aircraft, it isn't really the dangerous
activity non-fliers make it out to be. When accidents do occur, it's almost
always due to some very poor decisions made on the part of the pilot - taking
off over wight, bad weather/icing, shoddy maintenance, etc.

I started out with GA flying and later became a flight instructor, then moved
on to flying small turboprops (into some very treacherous airports), and now
fly jets with an airline. I've never known anyone personally who has been
killed or injured in an aircraft accident. Even flying for an airline, I'm
baffled by the sense of danger some passengers feel by going up in a large
jet.

Here's a startup that's trying to reverse the decline of GA flying -
OpenAirplane.com. They launched last year and have caught on pretty quickly.
It's a universal rental checkout for GA pilots, such as the OP. Get checked
out in, say, a Cessna 172 in Detroit, and you're set to rent a similar Cessna
172 in Florida. The requirement for a checkout at each operator from which one
wants to rent can be a roadblock for would-be renters, and this solves the
problem. The company has the backing of most major aviation insurance
providers and even Cessna Aircraft Company.

~~~
gcv
Very cool! Do you know if OpenAirplane.com also works with helicopter pilots?

~~~
rodrakic
Not yet... But we're working on it. We already have 2 Operators lined up to
start offering rotorcraft rental via OpenAirplane. Stay tuned.

------
jrs235
For those wondering how much it costs to get your private pilot's license...

You'll need to study and pass a written examine so you'll have to either
purchase self-study books or take a ground school class. (This is relatively
cheap, a few hundred dollars.)

You need to log 40 hours of flight training time. Depending on locale,
anticipate paying $100-$150 per hour for a flight instructor and $100-$150 per
hour for plane rental and fuel. So that's $200-$300 an hour times 40 hours so
a ballpark estimation is $8000 to $12000 MINIMUM. Depending how quickly you
get to flying solo (with your instructor on the ground) and how well you do
will determine if your flight instructor will sign off after the minimum 40
hours.

EDIT: You'll need to pay for the examine and I forgot, you'll need to get an
"FAA physical" and an okay from a physician which you'll also have to pay for
(unless you can get your health insurance to pay for it as a yearly physical
examine).

~~~
retroafroman
The FAA also created a new license class called 'Sport Pilot' about 10 years
ago that only takes 20 hours of flight training, which makes it much easier
and cheaper to get into flying [1]. However, this comes with limitations like
only able to take one passenger, only able to fly during the day, in good
weather, only in a small aircraft, etc.

[1]
[http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Regulatory-,-a-,-Certification-...](http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Regulatory-,-a-,-Certification-
Policy/Frequently-Asked-Questions-About-Sport-Pilot.aspx)

~~~
lake_rogue
When I decided I was going to get my pilot license I planned to do so
efficiently, without burning cash unnecessarily (yeah, right) -- I was
prepared with my own plan for every flight... I'd heard numbers in the $8k to
$10k ballpark and thought "I'll target that".

It still cost me $15k (in 2012 -- airplane $11k, instructor $4k) to get my
Private Pilot License -- plus another $2k in optional expenses like a good
home simulator set-up, iPad software, books etc. -- some of which arguably
should have made my training more efficient.

While I don't know the costs of getting a Sport Pilot license, I have wondered
if it would have been the better route for me.

The difference between the times I fly with a VFR Private Pilot license is
virtually no different than I would with a Sport Pilot license. I rarely have
more than one passenger (one is limit for Sport Pilot license), and I rarely
fly at night ('engine out' at night is beyond the risk I'm willing to take),
I've never been above 10k feet.

------
rsync
Here's a question:

Tell me about single engine (what you appear to have) vs. multi engine (twin,
I guess) ?

Should I be thinking about redundancy in plane engines the same way I think
about redundancy in ... say ... kidneys ?

It seems to me that I would really, really want a twin engined plane...

edit: I found this [1] but I'm not sure I buy it. I am all about simplicity in
systems, but redundancy in a critical component is a different thing. Further,
Perrow speaks of fortuitous surpluses (or whatever) as an unalloyed good in
[2]. This seems like just the kind of surplus I'd want...

[1] [http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AirplaneRule](http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AirplaneRule)

[2] Normal Accidents (run, don't walk, to buy and read it)

~~~
lutorm
Think about it this way: have you ever had your car engine die on the road?
For the vast majority of people, this just doesn't happen, even though people
spend much, much more time driving than they would flying. Modern engines are
remarkably reliable. And if it does quit, you can glide the plane to a forced
landing.

Long flights over water, mountains, or in poor visibility is a different
matter.

~~~
baddox
> have you ever had your car engine die on the road?

Yes, several times in the ten years I've been driving automobiles. Is that not
common?

~~~
lutorm
As far as I can recall, it hasn't _ever_ happened to me in the 24 years I've
been driving. Are you doing the required maintenance?

~~~
baddox
I suspect it is strongly correlated to how much you spend on cars
(particularly, how old your cars are). I've had a car that liked to overheat,
which took a couple of trips to the mechanic before they sorted it out. I also
had a truck that had some sort of electrical problem (I don't remember what
exactly, and I know nothing about automobiles).

------
noname123
You forgot the LAQ: "Can someone who only 'trained' on a Flight Simulator be
able to take-off and land in a real plane?'

~~~
lisper
The answer is yes. Someone actually did this experiment.

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJT_CACIZqs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJT_CACIZqs)

But it's pretty challenging. Today's simulators are pretty good, but there's
something about having your life actually on the line that can't be captured
by a sim.

~~~
dav-
Perhaps you could integrate some type of death instrument into the simulator
to increase the realism. Crash your plane, and a stack of exercise machine
weights falls onto your head. Something like that.

~~~
gutnor
Don't want to be beta testing that simulator.

~~~
noir_lord
I volunteer my ex-boss as victim..test candidate 1.

------
Udo
I would love an app that matches passengers to GA flights going between
airfields, essentially a ride-sharing option for small aircraft. Pilots could
offload a bit of the fuel cost and passengers could go between short range
destinations very fast if they're lucky.

~~~
niekmaas
A private pilot license (PPL) does not allow for commercial flying (charging
passengers). To charge passengers to pilot requires a commercial pilot
license.

~~~
sokoloff
A PPL does allow for "cost sharing" for flights under Part 91.

It's a very grey area around ride-sharing boards, but as a pilot I wouldn't
touch a ride-sharing board because of exactly what you say, that the FAA would
likely look at that as a Part 135 (charter) operation, my insurance may not be
valid, my certificate would be at risk, etc. all for a few hundred bucks in
shared costs. No thanks.

It's perfectly legal for me to fly 3 buddies down to Atlantic City and have
each of us pay 25% of the direct cost for the flight. Let's say that was
$100pp. Perfectly legal by FAR 61.113(c). [http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-
idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=te...](http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-
idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.5.1.8&idno=14)

IMO, it's not OK for me to post on a ride board: "Fly to AC this weekend with
me. $100 per person."

It's a grey area, I admit, but I wouldn't touch it, and I would recommend
against someone building a startup to do just that without qualified legal
counsel first. (and if they say "it's ok!", I'm not sure they're qualified...
;) )

~~~
cameldrv
It's a very thorny area, and not one that I'd want to get involved in either.
The FAA also has the concept of a "Common Purpose" to the flight. By my non-
lawyer reading of this, it would be illegal for a private pilot to even have a
casual conversation with someone, discover that they're going to the same
city, and split the expenses. They have to be say, all going on the same
vacation together. I believe that the intention of this is to avoid people
flying with private pilots that they don't personally know and have the
opportunity to evaluate their general judgment.

~~~
jsight
Yes, it's a good idea to be wary. As with most regulations, you'll get by with
it as long as nothing goes wrong. The problem is that there are a lot of
things that can go wrong.

A few years ago, I read about a case involving a friendly fellow (private
pilot) who received a call from his neighbor in the night about a sick
relative. The two were friends, so the pilot offered to take the neighbor by
plane to save time. The neighbor asked if he could pay to help offset the
expenses, and the pilot said that the only thing legal would be to share fuel
expenses (split 50/50). At this point everything seemed fine. However, the
neighbor wasn't accustomed to the high cost of fuel in aviation and decided to
check if the cost was reasonably calculated. Since he didn't want to appear
accusatory, he called someone he thought would know, and this happened to be
the FAA.

The FAA saw this as him asking about the cost of the flight, involved
themselves, and ruled that this flight did not meet the "Common Purpose"
criteria, and it ultimately ended in an enforcement action.

Here is a link to an FAA letter on the subject of ride boards. Unfortunately,
it doesn't bring a lot of concrete clarity, but it definitely makes it clear
that there it would be easy to cross the line with these:

[http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20956](http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20956)

------
mmanfrin
13 MPG is surprisingly good, I always thought it was much, much less.

~~~
jeiting
Yeah, its like an SUV but twice as fast.

~~~
lpolovets
Perhaps 3-5x as fast in terms of time because you don't have to stop at red
lights and you can take the "as the crow flies" path instead of zig-zagging.
Pretty sweet deal for $30k!

~~~
pingswept
True, but it takes around 45 minutes to prepare a plane for flight and about
20 minutes to put it away. Also, you have to drive to and from the airport.
Planes are incredible, but you have to fly pretty far before they're a
timesaver.

~~~
S201
Where did those numbers come from? Preflight and run-up can be done in 20
minutes once you've done it many times and securing after a flight is as
simple as turning everything off and pushing the plane in the hanger or
parking on the pad. That's maybe 10 minutes at most.

The only really time consuming part would be making and filing a flight plan.
If you've done the route multiple times, you already have the flight plan and
if you're operating under VFR (visual flight rules), you don't need to
open/close it.

Source: I'm currently a student pilot and have done this process many times.

~~~
pingswept
My parents are both pilots. The numbers are just my estimates from having
flown with them a bunch. Maybe my numbers are a little high, but I think I'd
stand by them.

There's always a bunch of dealing with cranking open the hanger door with the
winch, dragging the plane out, checking that there is no water in the fuel
(both tanks), transferring the stuff you're bringing with you from the car to
the plane, getting into the seatbelt, plugging in the headsets and checking
that they're all working, talking to the tower, taxiing out to the runway,
waiting for a plane or two to take off, and then actually taking off.

Anyway, have fun flying.

------
lloeki
> _I don 't need to file a flight plan, I just go_

Always (ALWAYS) file† a flight plan, and _stick to it_. If (when) something
happens this will save you. Countless experienced pilots went on their own,
had a trivial issue, landed at various vertical velocities and died because
they were known to be missing but no clue where to be searched for. Also a
proper flight plan includes _timestamps_ , because it is not just a matter of
position in space. Don't assume people will know, make sure of it.

BTW this is not just valid for airplanes but for any remote adventure you're
undertaking, even on foot. A bruised ankle can mean death in remote areas.

† although preferable, it might not be to an official/local authority but to
whoever cares enough for you to be trusted with your life.

------
DanielleMolloy
There are a couple of websites for airplane pooling around:
[http://www.skypool.com/](http://www.skypool.com/)

Like ridesharing / carpooling, just with airplanes. They are clearly not as
successful as the car variant, but when flight destinations / times match they
might offer a little adventure on the route (and one could avoid some of the
traffic jams around the Bay Area).

~~~
jeiting
There are a lot of legal land mines with operations like this.

The FAA separates flight operations along a couple of subtle lines that make
the difference between a commercial and private operation. As soon as a
private pilot says to the general public "I am flying from here to there on
this day and it will cost this much to come." you are now "holding out" as the
FAA puts it. This requires you to be a commercial pilot flying under part 135
of the FARs as opposed to the more relaxed part 91 (general aviation).

~~~
jrockway
> _This requires you to be a commercial pilot flying under part 135 of the
> FARs as opposed to the more relaxed part 91 (general aviation)._

This is something I plan to do if/when I burn out on programming. Though I
guess there is always the saying: "how do you become a millionaire?" "become a
billionaire and start an airline."

------
nathanstitt
Hey, I own your plane's sister (N8550W).

I'm surprised you didn't mention "Can you fly at night?" That's one I always
get.

~~~
scott_karana
And what's the answer? :)

~~~
nathanstitt
Opps, sorry.. guess it would have been good to actually answer the question.

Any private pilot can fly at night. There is a newer class of license called
sport pilot that does impose restrictions on night flight (and quite a few
other restrictions), but just about all pilots can fly at night.

I'm really confused by why people think it would not be ok to fly at night
though. Just about everyone I've told that I'm a pilot asks about it though,
so it's a big misconception somewhere. I always follow up with "Why do you
think it wouldn't be ok?", but no-one's really been able to articulate why
they thought that.

~~~
sfeng
Flying at night without an instrument rating in some areas is pretty sketchy
to be fair. More than one person has died by losing track of where the ground
is and where it isn't. In much of Europe you actually do need an instrument
rating to fly at night.

------
asjordan
"Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane." -Charles Morse, "The Edge"
(1997)

~~~
fennecfoxen
Charles Lindbergh, man. They STOLE and KILLED his BABY.

------
mariuolo
How much red tape is there if one wants to cross an international border?

~~~
bergie
Generally, not much.

You need to file a flight plan, which is essentially just telling the ATC
where you're going, and where you're coming from. The flight plan is also
useful in case you get into trouble, since it contains the identifying
information for your plane, the number of people on board, and for instance
the safety equipment on board. So if you crash, the search-and-rescue people
know what to expect.

Depending on the system the place you're flying to uses, filing the plan might
be filling a web form. At least in Finland you could also do that via a phone
call or with radio.

If there are customs and passport formalities between the countries you travel
to, you will need to taxi your plane to a 'customs control' parking lot on the
airport so that the customs people can check it. On some small airports this
may require alerting them ahead of time so that they'll actually be there.

You probably also have to have a radio and a transponder on the airplane.

Between some countries, like the EU/Schengen area, flying between countries is
pretty much the same as flying inside a country. So the requirements mostly
depend on airspace restrictions in the area you fly. Between other countries
things may vary. For example, back then I was told that it is quite impossible
to fly from Finland to Russia since there was essentially no GA in Russia.

(disclaimer: it has been nearly 10 years since I flew last time, so some of
this may be incorrect or outdated)

~~~
chiph
> since there was essentially no GA in Russia.

Other than Mathias Rust?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust)

------
mcdougle
I've been toying with the idea of getting my pilot's license (eventually)
partially for the sake of avoiding the TSA when I actually have to travel.
What I'm curious about is how difficult/expensive it is to rent a plane that
can fly further than stated in the article? (say, TX to CA, for instance) I
imagine it wouldn't make much sense to buy a huge cross-country jet for the
occasional long trips, although I am kind of surprised it's only ~$30k for a
smaller one!

~~~
lutorm
I think renting such a plane would be difficult, but there are home-built
airplanes with ranges over 1000 miles. You need a big bladder to go that far,
though...

~~~
mcdougle
Really? I've heard it should be pretty easy, and that unless you're planning
to fly often, renting is by far the best way to go (aside from just taking the
airlines). Then again, my sources might not be all that knowledgable!

~~~
sokoloff
Renting is tough to use airplanes to take purposeful trips.

Flight schools (the overwhelming source of rental airplanes) don't want you
taking their plane for 9 days (two weekends and the week in-between) and
flying it 3-hours each way, or 6 total hours of rental for 9 days where they
can't rent it to anyone else.

The typical minimum is 3 hours per day away from base.

Before I bought my twin-engine airplane, I wanted to have 50 hours of multi-
engine time (to make insurance more affordable), and I rented a flight school
twin to build that time, including some trips.

Because it was a twin (and therefore not in as high-demand), I was able to
negotiate a 2-hour daily minimum, but that meant for long trips like
Thanksgiving and Christmas, I had a lot of "extra hours" that I was going to
have to pay for anyway, so I'd take side trips to fly off those hours (and to
go visit used airplanes that I was considering purchasing).

It is also virtually impossible to decide "Hey, the weather looks good this
weekend; I'd like to rent a plane all weekend and go to XYZ." The plane will
be booked at some point during that weekend.

If you want to use an (non-airline, non-owned) airplane for travel, you want
to join a partnership or a small club, not rent from flight schools. (This
will be vastly cheaper than sole ownership, as you could imagine.)

------
apunic
Don't get me wrong but I do not get what's so exciting about flying yourself
or owning a plane. Flying is for getting from point A to B. Flying just for
fun missing any purpose might be fun the first couple of times but then it's
like driving a bus from A to A.

~~~
jeiting
Sex is for making children. I don't get why anyone would enjoy it more than
once.

Because you are flying in the air. In a machine. Above the ground. Like a god.

~~~
bulte-rs
True, but do this for 200 hours... and you're out of options of new stuff to
try. Then you try a bigger/better plane and/or more extreme manouvres.

Same as with sex: when you're bored with the regular stuff: try new manouvres
or a new partner ;-)

------
smackfu
A bit more info on the SFO question: [http://www.quora.com/How-difficult-or-
unusual-would-it-be-to...](http://www.quora.com/How-difficult-or-unusual-
would-it-be-to-land-a-Cessna-172-at-SFO)

------
taivare
The first time I flew in a plane, I never Landed..because I parachuted out,
using the 'old 18'ft Army round parachute'pulled both toggles down the whole
way 5+min descent...great fun!

------
HeyLaughingBoy
The most startling thing about this to me was how much costs have gone up.

In 1990-91 I was working on my Private Pilot's license. I lost interest around
38 hours or so and never finished, but it was fun while it lasted. Last flight
was my long solo cross-country. Costs were around $50/hr for a Cessna 152 and
about $45/hour for the instructor. This was flying out of BDR in southwestern
CT. Looks like prices are averaging more than double now. Whew!

------
computerslol
Is there a site where you can find other people that want to fly from
somewhere specific too somewhere specific to share fuel costs with? I'd love
to go up in a private plane for a few hours if it only cost me $200 or less.

~~~
cones688
[http://jetsuite.com/suitedeal](http://jetsuite.com/suitedeal)

They hire out the return legs for trips which are empty

edit: The prices quoted are for the whole plane, all 4 seats so usually about
150$ each

------
tehwalrus
wow. Americans and Canadians actually spell it, as well as say it, "airplane".
weird.

(mumble mumble aeroplane mumble)

------
jokoon
still wondering if today you can build a cheap airplane that just burns less
fuel...

~~~
lutorm
Building your own airplane is possible and actually quite common. There are
kits for anything from one-seaters with open cockpit to pressurized
turboprops.

[http://eaa.org/homebuilders/](http://eaa.org/homebuilders/)

~~~
jokoon
No I meant like newer generation planes with more efficient engines, lighter,
more aerodynamic, etc.

I'm not sure if current airplane designs are as good as they can...

~~~
lutorm
True, engine efficiency is kind of flat-lined. Turbines aren't efficient for
most GA operations, but there are new diesel aviation engines coming online.

Aerodynamically, I don't know about big gains. Something like a Lancair Legacy
is pretty low drag. You can make lower-drag planes, but that typically comes
with much higher stall/takeoff/landing speeds that make the plane harder to
fly and _much_ less safe in the event of a forced landing.

