

Google Engineer on Australia's slow growing Silicon Valley - sparknlaunch
http://google-au.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/australia-from-consumers-to-creators-of.html

======
taybenlor
If you happen to be an Aussie who's stumbled upon this and you know a teacher
or two, link them to this:

<http://iterate.inspire.edu.au/>

And if you know any high school students link them to:

<http://challenge.ncss.edu.au/>

There's some fantastic CS teaching programs going on in Australia and we
should give them as much support as we can :)

~~~
tominated
I did the NCSS challenge back in 2010 and I'm so glad I did. It got me in to
programming and now I am doing a Bachelor of IT because of it

------
qxcv
This piece sums up one of the problems perfectly - the teachers simply can't
keep up with the technology involved. As far as I can tell, our high-school CS
curriculum in Queensland hasn't changed much since the early 90s. It consists
of:

\- One and a half semesters of "conceptual schema design procedure", backed up
by a mundane textbook written in 1989 by a "big wheel" type from a local
university. What makes this particularly strange is the amount of conceptual
work you do on relational database schema design without _actually using_ a
relational database.

\- Two and a half semesters of Visual Basic 6. I asked my teacher why he was
still teaching it and his response was more-or-less "...because it's the only
language I know". CS4HS could be a real help here.

\- A smattering of lessons on "social and ethical issues in IT", which are
about as insightful as they sound.

Of course, the HS curriculum is just one of the issues. The mining boom has
meant that newly minted EEs can get up to $120k straight out of university by
joining the fly in/fly out workforce in central QLD and WA, so the
mathematically inclined students tend to choose civil, electrical, mechanical
or chemical engineering courses. Australia has a long way to go if it wants to
become the world's "Silicon Beach".

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garazy
Australia will not have a Silicon Valley until the banks let Australian
startups charge their customers in USD.

~~~
Im_Mr_Manager
Australian company here charging customers in USD for nearly 10 years now via
PayPal.

"Having a Silicon Valley" is totally unrelated I think.

~~~
nfm
IIRC, you can't do this for subscription based services - PayPal won't let
non-US account holders store CCVs.

Are you doing recurring billing with PayPal? If so, I'd love to know how!

~~~
garazy
We do recurring billing with them, you just have to use their interface -
[https://www.paypal.com/cgi-
bin/webscr?cmd=_pdn_subscr_techvi...](https://www.paypal.com/cgi-
bin/webscr?cmd=_pdn_subscr_techview_outside)

------
rodh257
Many Australian universities have a 'Bachelor of Information Technology'
instead of of a 'Bachelor of Computer Science'. The one I did was a 3 year
degree, it still did most of the CS subjects that I've seen elsewhere, though
it didn't have any compulsory Maths (I think an extra semester of Maths should
be added).

I did the degree part time whilst working full time and once I was done I
started the interview process for a position at Google. I was told that they
don't usually hire anyone unless they have a bachelor of computer science, but
that they'd make an exception seeing as I've been working (effectively had 4
years experience at that time). I ended up getting a non-grad job elsewhere
even before my second phone interview, but it seems to me that if they only
hire BSc students, the university system is not setup to suit them.

I've never met anyone from Queensland (my home state) that has done a BSc, its
either called Bachelor of IT or Software Engineering. That doesn't mean they
aren't capable of being great employees for Google.

~~~
octotoad
I'm in the same situation at the moment, having just begun a Bachelor of
Information Technology through RMIT and Open Universities Australia, which for
international readers, is a distance education organization involving several
large Australian universities. I am also working full time, although not in
IT, unfortunately.

I'm not in a financial position to fund my studies myself, so I'm making use
of the federal government 'FEE-HELP' system, which basically means I don't
begin repaying my loan(s) until I reach a certain income threshold. I also
live in a 'regional' area on the NSW Mid North Coast, and despite living
within an hour of a local university, the courses and degrees I've enrolled in
aren't offered in this area.

I can understand that there are most likely different factors that determine
whether or not a particular degree is covered by FEE-HELP, but it's a shame
that it seems like a proper CS degree is still only viable for somebody living
in a large capital city, with the finances available to self-fund their
studies.

As you've mentioned, a Bachelor of IT does offer certain fundamental units
that you'd encounter in a CS degree, but none of the advanced maths units seem
to be offered.

If the National Broadband Network actually gets finished one day, hopefully
more long distance education providers might be able to offer degrees such as
CS, with the aid of fast, reliable internet connectivity to help solve the
locale problem.

------
salem
I suspect a large part of the problem is Australia's very conservative
investment culture. This is a country where Fortescue Metals Group was a risky
investment because they were building a mine, some rail road, and a port for
one big iron ore project. So imagine how popular investment in developing
technology is over there when it is both: 1\. little understood by the
investors, and 2\. perceived as highly risky. So with little technology
investment, there are few options for graduates, aside from work in places
where technology/IT is a cost centre, not a profit centre, which depresses the
salaries and increases the appeal of moving to some place where their skills
are in demand and highly valued.

~~~
salem
And, I should add, without compelling local role models or opportunities, many
students looking at selecting a major are going to go elsewhere.

------
wyclif
How healthy is the startup scene down under?

~~~
stevoski
IMO Great. Here are some reasons why:

1) It is remarkably easy to start a business in Australia. Three steps, IIRC,
and can be done in a day.

2) There are significant tax breaks for people selling a company they started

3) The language is English, which is a big advantage for sales and marketing
reasons, and many others

4) Australian-based businesses don't need to charge sales tat/VAT/GST to
anyone except Australian customers. (In comparison, I'm currently based in
Spain, so I have to charge various rates of VAT/sales tax to all European
Union customers)

5) Relatively low bureaucratic hurdle (compared to UK, Germany, Spain, and
Lebanon - the other countries where I've worked)

6) The infrastructure is excellent. (Internet infrastructure could be better
though - it is not on par with western europe.)

~~~
coenhyde
I agree with all the points you've made but not with your conclusion.
Australia is shocking for startups, at least in Brisbane. I definitely do not
recommend. Sydney/Melbourne might be a different story.

The sad thing is we have huge technical talent that is being wasted. 50% of my
colleagues who are any good have left Brisbane to go to Silicon Valley or New
York.

We have these negative points about Brisbane:

\- Huge tall poppy syndrome. We tear each other down. Then when someone leaves
and makes it big in the US we try to reclaim them.

\- The people who get funded are the "ideas" people. Not those with the talent
to make it happen. If you have the technical talent then forget about raising
funds. You're just a code monkey. This is really bad for the startup community
as a whole as we have a continual spiral of crap products coming from funded
companies.

\- The startup industry is filled with vultures. We have more incubators and
companies helping people raise funds than actual startups.

Anyway enough of my rant. I should just be done with it and move to the US, or
at least Sydney/Melbourne.

~~~
djtidau
Brisbane/Queensland has suddenly seen a large increase in the local startup
community. Groups like Silicon Beach and The Lean Startup have been a big part
of it, especially with getting the word out on Microsoft's offering via its
newly opened Innovation Centre initiative.

Steve Baxter (Founder of PIPE networks) has also come forward as a big player,
opening up River City Labs, a co-working space for startups passing their
application criteria. He has committed a large sum of money to all this and
there is even talk of a Y-Combinator style seed investment strategy coming out
of it all.

It is still early days but there has been A LOT of movement in this space
locally and I personally am excited about what is ahead.

~~~
taligent
There's been the same sort of growth in seed incubators in Melbourne as well.
The problem is that they are all following the same playbook:

Get an Idea (Startup Weekend) -> Build Prototype (Seed) -> Head Over To
Silicon Valley -> Sell/Fail.

I fail to see how that is in any way good for anybody other than the
investors.

~~~
coopdog
Do you have any more information on Melbourne incubators?

I know of AngelCube, is there a 'best' startup community?

I'm still yet to even find a good online forum for startups (nothing like
news.ycombinator even)

How do they sell/fail? You mean, no one wants to buy Australian startups
because they're usually just not very good?

------
pantaloons
As an Australian CS graduate, the best offer I got from an Australian company
was less than half the worst BigCo offer in the states. Google might hem and
haw about "Australia's future prosperity", but their motives should be clear.
More graduates does not a Silicon Valley make.

~~~
taybenlor
Not sure where you've been looking, I've heard of decent offers in Australia.
If you've been applying for corporate IT jobs then no surprise, but you _can_
do well over here.

------
tomx
Any thoughts on whether this is:

* a long term program to mint more developers (and drive down salaries) * to mint more developers to create more websites to display advertising on faster * ??? or

* a genuine good will program * ???

?

------
bartonfink
Does anyone know of anything interesting happening in New Zealand re startups?

------
sparknlaunch
I heard there were some restrictive regulations on selling retail items online
in Australia? It effectively takes away any benefits of trading purely online.
How successful is online retailing?

~~~
taligent
I've never heard of any regulations. There are plenty of successful online-
only retailers across a range of industries. AFAIK you just setup a website,
register for GST and off you go.

The only issue I've heard is that some brick/mortar shops have been putting
pressure on suppliers not to deal with online companies. But our beloved ACCC
(pro-consumer agency) is investigating as we speak and I doubt that will last
very long.

