

Microsoft to charge customers $99 to remove OEM 'crapware' - bconway
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/microsoft-to-charge-customers-99-to-remove-oem-crapware/20446

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dmethvin
Let's not forget how we got here. In the mid-1990s the OEMs were up in arms
about how Microsoft was trying to control the Windows user experience; the
OEMs said it was their customer and they would install any damn thing they
wanted before delivery, thankyouverymuch.

The DOJ's 1994 consent decree with Microsoft [1] said _"Microsoft shall not
enter into any License Agreement in which the terms of that agreement are
expressly or impliedly conditioned upon ... the OEM not licensing, purchasing,
using or distributing any non-Microsoft product."_ It reinforced that
Microsoft could sell Windows to OEMs but not dictate what else went into the
box.

And thus began the crapware nightmare. It was all well intentioned, but it
prevented Microsoft from taking an Apple-like role of "benevolent dictator" to
keep the OS coherent. So instead, Microsoft is relegated to the role of
curmudgeonly custodian, only able to arrive and do something after the mess is
made. A Groundskeeper Willie if you will.

[1] <http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0047.htm>

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powertower
More inflammatory misinformation from cnet designed to bait readers to their
blogs and traffic eyeballs to their ads.

MS is not charging to remove 'crapware' is some conspiracy with the OEMs.

MS is charging for a in-store service and product where they'll sit down and
install a new OS and get someone to optimize everything for you while trying
to keep all your data and whichever apps.

~~~
bradleyland
Huh? I'm not sure where you're getting the conspiracy thing from. It's no
conspiracy, it's just stupid. The "follow the money chain" part of the article
is completely factual and straight forward. It's not like he's alleging that
MS _wants_ the crapware on machines. Quite the opposite, MS tried this at one
point, but parts of the DOJ anti-trust ruling prevent them from controlling
what OEMs do with their OS installs.

If you can't see the ridiculousness of the scenario, then I'm not sure what to
tell you. OEMs install all this crap to the detriment of their customers, who
then have to go back to the company who originally sold the OEM the operating
system, just to get a decent experience. If that's not ridiculous, then I
don't know what is.

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brudgers
Microsoft is offering a service to their customers which improves the
performance of Windows machines. Although the article insinuates that
Microsoft is somehow responsible for crapware, they're not, and never have
been. That money goes into the hardware manufacturer's pocket.

Instead, Microsoft has invested in creating a variety of useful, free services
via Live as an alternative - particularly Microsoft Security Essentials as
consumer anti-malware packages have become primarily a means for tracking
consumer behavior. Skydrive also comes to mind.

Blaming Microsoft for crapware is nonsense. Anti-trust regulators across the
globe would be foaming at the mouth were Microsoft's licensing agreements with
hardware manufacturer's to preclude the installation of third party software
in lieu of their own offerings - they've been there and got the tee shirt.

Is $99 too much? Well, it's the same price as Apple's "One to One" and serves
much of the same purpose - preserving your data during an OS install (though
Microsoft offers the service any time and doesn't bundle it with a hardware
purchase).

~~~
nextparadigms
I wonder why manufacturers all over the world would rather use FreeDos on some
laptops than install Ubuntu or some other linux distro.

Do you think it has anything to do with Microsoft coercing them into not
giving customers a real OS choice, or is it because manufacturers don't want
to be bothered to do the least amount of effort to support Linux (even though
most drivers should work by default)?

~~~
brudgers
Linux is a PITA for the average computer user. Keeping a distro current sucks
compared to patch Tuesday and technical support blows...problem with Firefox?
you will get linked to some page unrelated to your issue on Ubuntu's website.

It's not a conspiracy. Linux is going to require more manufacturer resources
to support consumers while producing less revenue - i.e. most people aren't
going to choose Linux unless it is cheaper than Windows.

On the other hand, FreeDos is so simple and limited that hardware vendors
don't need significant resources to support it, so it is more profitable than
Linux.

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dneb7
As mentioned in the article, the PCDecrapifier is a really nice bit of (free)
software -- I run it on all new Windows PCs (if I don't just format and
rebuild from scratch). And the name is brilliant :)

~~~
jnorthrop
I'll second the recommendation, but remember if you are using it in a
corporate environment you should buy a license. I think it is only $25.
Support the developer!

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raverbashing
Gee, thanks MS

But I think I'll just run Linux

Or just go to the Apple Store

"With great power comes great responsibility" and it's a pity MS doesn't OWN
the user experience. Lock up the ability of OEM to preinstall stuff (like,
only drivers and specific software)

(yes, several parts of Windows have worsened over time, like the Control
Panel. Still, MS products UX is usually better than most UX out there)

~~~
brudgers
> _"Lock up the ability of OEM to preinstall stuff"_

Doing so would probably be illegal in the US, Europe and several other
markets.

~~~
javert
You mean the US and Europe are using the law to put MS at a disadvantage
compared to Apple?

Ah, sounds familiar.

~~~
jsight
How is this a disadvantage? MS can ship cleanly installed hardware.

In fact, they do:
[http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/cat/categoryID.4...](http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/cat/categoryID.44066900)

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drcube
How much is a Windows license these days? It seems to me it would be cheaper,
or at least equal in price, to install a clean copy of Windows rather than go
to the trouble of "decrapifying" your computer. I realize a lot of Windows
users don't have this ability, but I don't see why MS couldn't do it
themselves and save time.

Also, what's the legal status of using a clean install disk with my crapified
computer's registration key? If I want to reinstall Windows, am I obliged to
reinstall the crapware too?

If I could reinstall a clean OS for free, $99 is a racket. Someone with a
Windows disk could make a pretty penny undercutting MS here. Of course, one of
the reasons I use Linux is because dealing with Windows like this is a legal
minefield.

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ticks
Presumably the "crapware" is subsidising the price. Using the term "crapware"
is a bit loaded and borderline swearing, it just doesn't seem like a good
technical term to use - even though I don't like the stuff myself.

~~~
forgotAgain
It's a term coined out of frustration. Having unboxed new PC's that were
slower in operation than PC's from a previous generation I've felt and
understand the emotional aspects of it.

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xarien
Not taking sides, but is the article suggesting that there's only a $99 price
difference between Macs and MS PCs running comparable hardware? I can assure
you it's not remotely close to the case...

~~~
nextparadigms
Maybe for the same quality, it is. Ultrabooks comparable to MacBook Air are
only $100 cheaper, maybe $200 at most at the higher end, but I think they
achieve that also by skimping on some stuff (display quality, SSD, etc).

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kevingadd
I don't understand the sense of anger in this article. What do they expect
Microsoft to do, restrict the freedom of customers to install software on PCs?
OEMs are customers just like the people who actually buy PCs; you can't
trivially restrict one without restricting the other.

If you ask me, the fact that Microsoft offers this service is a risky move on
their part because it risks upsetting the OEMs. Charging $99 for the cost of
labor is pretty reasonable since you get phone support with it - I can easily
imagine troublesome customers racking up hours of support costs in those 90
days after paying for this service.

~~~
Animus7
> OEMs are customers just like the people who actually buy PCs; you can't
> trivially restrict one without restricting the other.

This is plain wrong. Microsoft dictates licensing with its customers and it
certainly has the right to license on different terms to different customers.

And in fact they do exactly this with OEM's already.

MSFT is certainly within its rights and capabilities to include in their
licensing dealings with OEM partners terms that prohibit pre-installing what
they deem "crapware". And asking them to enforce this restriction (whether a
good idea or not) is nonetheless reasonable.

~~~
kevingadd
I can go out and buy the OEM edition of windows, as an individual, without
signing any license agreement with Microsoft. And I can go install it on a PC
and sell that PC to a customer of mine if I happen to operate a PC shop.

~~~
Animus7
> without signing any license agreement with Microsoft

Clickwrap is a blurry legal line, but you more or less are "signing" a license
agreement by installing Windows.

And nonetheless the "OEM edition" that you get is potentially very different
(license-wise) from the custom-negotiated contract that Dell is bound to when
they order two hundred thousand licenses from Microsoft.

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lwhi
Why not reinstall windows? Won't that have the same effect?

~~~
delinka
The installation media you receive with the OEM PC is not an authentic,
original, pure unadulterated Windows installation - it's an OEM installation
that, if you haven't guessed by now, comes with all the crapware.

Yes, you can buy a brand new Windows license for installing on your PC. But
that'll cost you more than $99 this service costs.

~~~
lwhi
That hasn't been the case in my experience.

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asto
If you have a brain that is properly functioning, you can do this yourself. It
will at most take a day. Is it worthwhile for me to spend a day on this to
save $99 dollars? Yes, it is.

~~~
DanI-S
Only if you earn less than (52*495) $25,740 per year, and that's not
considering vacation.

~~~
asto
It seems my assumption of a day was more extreme than I thought! Regardless,
let's take two extreme cases and compare costs/benefits: 1\. You don't know
anything. 2\. You are a power user who knows everything.

Case 1: Let's say you take the ENTIRE day. You have not only fixed your
problem but you have learned a lot of things which will help you with a
similar problem the next time. You save costs for your entire life on the
expense of that one day.

Case 2: You get it done in an hour or so which isn't a big financial hit.

~~~
DanI-S
In a way, this demonstrates quite well how the premium of buying a Mac makes
sense for a lot of people. The extra few hundred dollars aren't too
significant if it genuinely saves them time.

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n-gauge
So Microsoft are charging $99 just to tell you enter at the command prompt:

format c:

:)

