

Windows 8 devices to have retina display - davux
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/03/21/scaling-to-different-screens.aspx

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jmspring
I actually found the article pretty informative and have generally been
impressed with some of MSFTs recent moves. As someone that tried to avoid MSFT
directly during the Win3.11 days (OS/2 anyone?) and adopted assorted BSDs when
OS/2 proved less than fruitful, the Metro interface is an interesting tweak on
the traditional set of icons.

Note, I said Metro _NOT_ Win8. I think WP7 brings an interesting and unique
tweak to what iOS and Android are doing. I am not sure it will translate well
into the desktop. Install Windows 8 community preview, VS 11, and a couple of
other developer tools...Why do I need all those tiles littering the desktop?
This is a developer targeted example but I am sure others exist for non-
developers. The mixed metaphor of Metro and Win7-desktop will prove a
challenge.

I think Metro will be a win on the tablet/phone side of the world. Do I think
it will over take iOS? No idea, I'm an iPhone/iPad person myself, but MSFT
putting down a minimum set of requirements as well as a consistent interface
is a big stead ahead of the android/touchwiz/manufacturer specific interface
universe.

I think competition in both the desktop and tablet markets will prove
fruitful. Current iOS notifications learned something from Android, for
example. So, stronger competition is a good thing.

Specific to the digs at Nokia, I think Microsoft probably got the better of
the bargain, but they have always produced some great hardware. Hopefully with
a mix of good hardware and a unique OS, their handsets can bring them back
from the dumps...

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simonster
Huh, I didn't realize that Metro doesn't support 1024x600. That doesn't sound
like great news for netbook users.

~~~
protomyth
I get the feeling that this is going to be a problem with a lot of upgrades.
We have quite a few netbooks (HP via Verizon) that will not work. Wal-Mart
sells a lot of netbooks that aren't up to spec either.

~~~
protomyth
Apparently some down voter out there hasn't had to deal with the Vista, Snow
Leopard (PPC users), or Lion (early Intel users) upgrades and people's
reaction to their machines not being able to run the latest hyped software.

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devindotcom
Glad there's a plan for this. But everyone is going to have to do a lot more
work to make their UIs truly resolution independent, though. It's really a
major task. But this is a good initial step.

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notatoad
i wonder is that 17" 1080p slate referencing a real product, or just an
example microsoft has chosen to illustrate possible flexibility? it sounds
like an interesting new class of device.

~~~
cooldeal
There will also be huge touch screens running Windows 8 like this one:

[http://theverge.vid.io/v/4bfbecd4-6301-11e1-aefa-1231391e54c...](http://theverge.vid.io/v/4bfbecd4-6301-11e1-aefa-1231391e54ce)

Sure will cost a pretty penny, but the sheer number of form factors that OEMs
can churn out is impressive in terms of consumer choice depending on their
needs.

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rizwan
The TL;DR version:

The developer is responsible for a lot of the screen dimension differences
using flexible layout and progressive enhancement/degradation.

"Retina" scaling is fixed at 1.0, 1.4, and 1.8 (100%, 140%, 180%).

~~~
seanmcdirmid
If the developer is going vector, they don't really have to do anything (the
scaling works transparently). And its turning out to be a good time to go
vector.

~~~
cmelbye
There was an article on HN recently that demonstrated why vectoring is
completely unviable for this: [http://www.pushing-pixels.org/2011/11/04/about-
those-vector-...](http://www.pushing-pixels.org/2011/11/04/about-those-vector-
icons.html)

In short, vector graphics scaled up simply can't compare to graphics that were
hand-made for a specific size, as the article shows.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
This is quite true, with existing technology the graphic designer always has
to touch up their Illustrator PNGs in Photoshop (conspiracy theory: does Adobe
do this on purpose so people will buy photoshop?). But at higher PPIs, the
aliasing effects of rasterization are much less, you could almost turn anti-
aliasing off at retina display levels, so vectors begin to make more sense.

Of course, the problem is that there are still a lot of displays out there
where anti-aliasing is necessary, and for some reasons our algorithms always
screw it up if done in real time. Perhaps we just need better algorithms
(e.g., see Direct2D).

The final problem they mention is one of physical size, but it makes sense
that you'd have a lesser detailed vector for something that is really small
vs. something that is very big; its a design issue.

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nextparadigms
Am I missing something? Where's the "retina" display?

1920x1080 on 23" screens is not retina. It's not on 13" either. Has the retina
name been diluted to just mean any resolution over 1080p and on any screen
size now?

I guess you have Apple to blame for this, too. Retina used to mean 300+ PPI.
Since the iPad has significantly less than that, they just say that it depends
how far you are from it now.

I guess Microsoft will claim that for 1080p 23" monitors, you'll just have to
use them from the couch a few feet away to experience the "retina" display.

~~~
jlgosse
10.1", 2560x1440 (291 DPI) is clearly labeled in the graphic, "Common sizes
for Windows 8". It's probably best to read the entire article and look at all
the pretty pictures before commenting

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duaneb
I'm so glad for this. Competition drives innovation!

~~~
glimcat
In the sense that evolution drives speciation, yes.

Which is to say, a random walk based strictly on local optimization
conditions, which produces absurd dead-end results at least as often as it
produces something of lasting value.

------
cooldeal
What's up with the disgusting flagging going on with Microsoft related
stories?

<http://imgur.com/IlAn2.jpg>

The hater fanboys here have even gotten Winsupersite banned from HN. This is
really pathetic abuse of the flag feature for personal agendas.

------
recoiledsnake
Nokia is rumored to be building a tablet[1]. There might be finally some real
competition for the iPad unlike other tablets like Touchpad, Playbook and most
Android tablets.

[1] [http://windows8beta.com/2012/03/nokia-design-chief-
confirms-...](http://windows8beta.com/2012/03/nokia-design-chief-confirms-
plans-for-windows-8-tablet)

PS: The heavily compressed JPEG screenshots were really blurry with artifacts.
Wonder why they couldn't post PNGs or JPEGs with less compression.

~~~
huggyface
_There might be finally some real competition for the iPad unlike other
tablets like Touchpad, Playbook and most Android tablets_

Because Windows Phone 7 has proven to be so formidable? Because Nokia is on
such a technology tear? Now that the big boys are entering the game, it's on!

~~~
loverobots
Dissing Nokia? Sorry, but while Apple did blindside everyone, Nokia is a
legend. Some of their phones, made for the $20+ market, last for ages.
Remember that in Africa, parts of Asia and eastern Europe the iPhone is just a
dream. Their latest Windows Phone got great reviews as far as I can tell.
Totally different design, did not clone iPhone or anyone. So if they can make
a tablet with the same material I'm in.

Personally I'd choose a Widows tablet over an iPad in a heartbeat, simply
because all my computers are Windows. I'm too invested in them with dozens of
already purchased programs to change to Apple.

Lastly, never underestimate Microsoft (Tim Cook certainly isn't). What they
did 10 years ago is no longer relevant; they are tenacious, mint boatloads
cash every quarter and Microsoft Research is top notch.

~~~
jad
> Lastly, never underestimate Microsoft (Tim Cook certainly isn't).

"I don't really think anything Microsoft does puts pressure on Apple."

\- Tim Cook as quoted in the Wall Street Journal
([http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020488040457722...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204880404577226864202052768.html?mod=e2tw))

~~~
r00fus
Or as FakeSteveJobs [1] put it: "You know what? I love competing with
Microsoft. I really do."

Microsoft was never really a consumer product company. It's main money makers,
Windows and Office have always depended mainly on business and enterprise.
Compare with Apple who always had their eye on home computing since inception.

[1] [http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/10/whats-the-1-most-crazy-
idea...](http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/10/whats-the-1-most-crazy-idea-steve-
ballmer-has-ever-heard.html)

