

A modest proposal for an interstellar communications network - franze
http://www.economist.com/node/18526871

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retube
> it is an idea that can easily be checked, for astronomers are already
> sitting on the data that might contain these extraterrestrial messages.

I do not believe this. Whilst we may have vast amounts of data from the
electromagnetic spectrum, there are only a handful of neutrino detectors on
earth, and they have a very narrow research domain. Not to mention that as
neutrinos are so unbelievably weakly interacting the quantity of neutrino
interactions ever recorded is minuscule.

The viability of neutrino messaging seems... dubious. The fact that solid
matter is almost perfectly transparent to neutrinos makes them a singularly
bad candidate for information transmission. You'd need a pool of water the
size of the solar system to detect enough of them capable of carrying a
meaningful message.

On the other hand, there are large parts of the EM spectrum that are
attenuated only marginally by inter-stellar gas and would be much more
suitable.

~~~
dexen
That's why the proposal hinges on using neutrinos with particular energy
(6.3PeV, 6.3 * 10^15eV). The article mentions those have two properties:

* quite likely to release a W- boson (itself easily detectable) when interacting with matter in detector, and

* not being emited in any sizeable numbers from natural sources -- thus implicating artificial source.

~~~
retube
> Quite likely to release a W- boson.

Possibly, if it interacts at all. This is still a vanishingly small
probability, even if high compared to other neutrino energies.

10^15eV is an astonishingly high energy. About 1,000 times as energetic as a
proton in the LHC (which benefits from a gigantic rest-mass). To generate
enough of them to be detected is seriously the realms of ultra-science
fiction. Along the lines of turning Jupiter into a star or building a Dyson
Sphere.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Along the lines of turning Jupiter into a star or building a Dyson Sphere.

Neither of which is likely to be all that hard for a civilization a million
years further in development than we are.

~~~
neutronicus
That's assuming ... quite a bit.

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ppod
I wish the phrase "A modest proposal" would be reserved for the satirical
intent with which Swift first used it.

~~~
mediacrisis
Well clearly this is all in the name of feeding aliens to the poor. Or just
getting literature enthusiasts to read about neutrinos :]

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jpitz
Over the course of my life, a little tidbit of wisdom I've learned, and not
heeded enough - like right now - is the wisdom of shutting up.

As amazing as the prospect of communicating with and meeting a spacefaring
race would be, I fear the consequences may lie somewhere between a repeat of
the Louisiana Purchase and putting up a galactic 'Joe's Diner' sign.

Are we a babe screaming in the woods?

~~~
Roboprog
The book "Killing Star" comes to mind. The aliens did not burn up tons of
anti-matter to come and steal our stuff -- the came (in the book) because they
had the MicroSoft business plan: destroy any competition. (do unto others
before they do unto you)

Yeah, that book starts with a neutrino detector. The guy monitoring it is not
a happy camper :-)

~~~
rflrob
> the came (in the book) because they had the MicroSoft business plan: destroy
> any competition. (do unto others before they do unto you)

And why would anyone logically do unto anyone first? If you're not worried
about people stealing your stuff (because it's so fantastically expensive to
do that at interstellar distances), then there's really very little incentive
to harm anyone.

The only thing I can think of is that you're worried another race might
develop cheap enough FTL that they could then do an interstellar smash-and-
grab, but compared to the time and expense of mounting your own campaign, it's
probably faster and easier just to focus your resources on building your own
FTL.

~~~
Roboprog
I'm not saying I agree with the philosophy, just that that's how the
antagonists in the book thought: we're scared, we don't trust anyone, so snuff
out any other possible competing space-faring species in the cradle.

Of course, it's entirely possible that it simply isn't practical to traverse
interstellar distances at all, other than sending dormant robots on "the slow
boat" to explore and "phone home" about what they found. More likely there are
better ways to travel, but it might take more than 50 years on manned space
travel to discover / devise them.

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iwwr
How would this neutrino beam work, as there is no feasible material that can
really focus these particles? Won't a neutrino emitter (the sort we can build)
be essentially isotropic. Perhaps higher-energy neutrinos would have a higher
interaction cross-section, making them somewhat more 'visible'.

Long wavelength radio (near 3-20Hz) may work just as well, with potentially a
better data rate (still poor) than a neutrino-encoded emitter. A "neutrino
emitter" would have no 'gain', while we may find ways to build really large
and orientable radio antennas. You can build an antenna that can work on
wavelengths larger than the earth with very long wires strewn out into outer
space. Although below 3 or so Hz, space plasma becomes opaque and that would
prevent transmissions.

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thret
'If an intergalactic version of "Yesterday in Parliament" showed up in such a
trawl it might not demonstrate the existence of truly intelligent aliens. By
contrast, coverage of the cricket on "Test Match Special" would surely be
proof positive.'

I think they have this joke backwards.

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BasDirks
My mind is on the floor. Though seemingly ridiculous, it is incredibly
imaginative.

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wazoox
This is funny, but quite loony. And I'm wondering how it may matter to the
Economist.

