
Guy Finds StarCraft Source Code and Returns It to Blizzard - SoMuchToGrok
https://kotaku.com/guy-finds-starcraft-source-code-and-returns-it-to-blizz-1794897125
======
jakebasile
It looks like someone found a copy of Blizzard's copyrighted source code,
returned it to Blizzard, and got a reward. Why are people upset about this? It
seems like the right thing to do to my mind. If someone found a copy of my own
source laying in the street I'd be very happy if they returned it instead of
releasing it on the net.

~~~
jpgvm
It's not normal source code.

It's not like you found the source to the latest Halo game or something.

This is like finding the source to the original Halo game, of little to no
commercial value but of immense cultural value.

Where possible these artefacts are archived so they will be around long after
the companies have folded.

Unfortunately it's just not possible most of the time as companies end up
taking their software to the grave.

Which makes this all the more depressing. This was an incredibly rare
opportunity to archive something of cultural significance to millions of
people, completely wasted because it fell into the hands of someone not
equipped to deal with the situation properly or contact someone that does.

~~~
jakebasile
But in this case, that's Blizzard's right. They own it whether you like it or
not. Just because something is important doesn't mean they should lose
property rights to it.

Abandonware is a thing and I remember there being some legal headway made
recently in that respect, but Starcraft isn't abandoned. They just released a
compatibility patch and made it free to download.

~~~
jpgvm
I'm not talking about distribution, merely archiving.

I don't think it's reasonable to argue against archiving when it clearly has
cultural significance.

~~~
corobo
There's absolutely no chance in hell the dude saying he sent a copy to
archive.org would have stopped those reddit threads from foaming at the mouth.
People want the code, not the archive.

------
huehehue
Damn people are tearing this guy apart, the reddit threads are particularly
brutal. It's a video game.

The finder has no obligation to risk legal trouble so that a game can be
modified, played, or even preserved. I'm all for archiving these sorts of
things, and agree there's probably no great reason to keep the source private.

But if I have the (likely) stolen property of a large company and they ask for
its return, I'm sure as hell not going to go all cowboy to make some
enthusiasts happy.

~~~
jpgvm
It's actually pretty simple. If you find yourself in the same situation:

1\. Rip disk 2\. Send to archive.org 3\. Mail disk to Blizzard.

Blizzard will destroy this copy or at least make sure it never circulates
again, by sending it to archive.org you have relieved yourself of the burden
of releasing it. They may or may not choose to release it but they will at
least keep it archived so that if Blizzard is to be lost then history will not
be lost with it.

~~~
test1235
You'd still get in trouble for making that copy and distributing it.

~~~
seanp2k2
you're not distributing it and I'd trust the people at the Internet Archive to
keep it anonymous and Do the Right Thing.

~~~
crimsoneer
Yes, and when Blizzard notice that exact same source code you have
conveniently appeared on the internet a few months later from an anonymous
source, I'm confident they won't inform the police and sue me to fuck.

~~~
wtetzner
So send it to Blizzard anonymously as well.

------
uranian
Fair chance Blizzard expected he had at least made a copy. Their being so
generous with gifts and inviting him to speak with him personally seems to me
a desperate effort to generate even more loyalty in him, which is actually
really smart. It's their best chance for very little money and effort to
prevent this source code to circulate on the internet.

------
Vekz
Heart breaking relevant reddit threads:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/640iem/foun...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/640iem/found_a_starcraft_gold_master_from_1998/)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/68xzxt/star...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/68xzxt/starcraft_gold_master_source_code_update/)

~~~
stingraycharles
It's a very twisted train of thought going on here. I had to dig a bit deeper
in that thread to find them, but here is an example:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/68xzxt/star...](https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/68xzxt/starcraft_gold_master_source_code_update/dh3sds0/)

~~~
Dylan16807
Go ahead and disagree with that train of thought, but I don't see how it's
'twisted' to call him selfish.

You can call the venom in those posts twisted, but that is a _very_ different
thing from saying the actual reasoning behind the posts is twisted.

~~~
jakebasile
Selfish for following the law and respecting the wishes of the authors of a
work? Jesus, people are really performing some mental gymnastics to justify
the hypothetical theft of property in this case in order to arrive at the
conclusion that the finder is somehow being selfish.

~~~
Dylan16807
Sometimes, not most of the time but sometimes, the wishes of an author are bad
for the public. In a hypothetical scenario where an author wants to destroy
all traces of their work, it's a bad thing to help them.

And this is about the data, and possible copyright violations, not the theft
of property. Him returning the physical disk is perfectly fine. So throw out
that argument.

It's really very straightforward. No gymnastics.

~~~
yomly
Brahms destroyed a whole bunch of his works out of his own insecurity that
they were not good enough. Brahms is now long dead but his (that were not
destroyed) works live on.

------
slackingoff2017
Wtf? Who make a "gold disc" for source code?? Wouldn't the gold master be
compiled code? And who the fuck makes a "gold source" disc that's also
"professionally printed"? That implies they gave the source to somebody to
have the CD made. Yeah right. Also, the game takes up most of a CD, the assets
would use far more space than that.

There's so many holes in this story, it's obvious bullshit and everyone is
soaking it up. 100% chance this is a lame viral marketing stunt to drum up
interest in StarCraft remastered. It's clearly paid placement, and frankly a
bit sensational to even be possible.

Blizzard is known for quietly paying people for product placement and bullshit
stories like this. Don't be sheeple.

Edit: I did some reading and other sources actually name the person and
mention he's a game collector (with pictures of some of his collection).
Surprisingly, this looks to be legit.

[http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/05/03/long-lost-
starcraft-g...](http://www.dualshockers.com/2017/05/03/long-lost-starcraft-
gold-master-disc-found-20-years/)

~~~
dagw
_Who make a "gold disc" for source code_

The company I used to work for always made an archive copy of the exact source
code we had compiled for each major release, so that there would never be any
doubt about exactly which source code we had compiled to make each version of
our game.

 _And who the fuck makes a "gold source" disc that's also "professionally
printed"?_

That disc does not look professionally printed. It looks like it was printed
on one those cd-rom inkjet printers that where so popular back in the day.

~~~
slackingoff2017
Fair points, but I don't think CD-R was ever used as a serious archive format.
Even back then it was known that the inks were prone to fading.

I just think the likelihood of the source being in this format is extremely
low and when coupled with the timing of this article it's all but certain that
this is a marketing piece.

Looking at the reddit user that found this disc... He was looking for a job at
a "big name" tech employer a few months back, and he's definitely into gaming.
He mentioned that blizzard told him the disc was stolen, which would be
slightly more believable if returning it prompted an investigation rather than
showering him with gifts.

~~~
dagw
_I don 't think CD-R was ever used as a serious archive format._

Oh it absolutely was. Maybe we shouldn't have and it might or might not have
been good idea, but it was very common.

------
kgu
I can't find it viscerally in me to take moral issue with the guy releasing
the code. I understand it belongs to Blizzard, but I just don't feel sorry for
them. Not defending that, just stating a fact about the absence of an emotion
in me.

That said: if you believe the guy would've been right to distribute the code,
it follows that you believe the right thing for Blizzard to do is to release
the code themselves. Instead of arguing morality here, one might spend one's
energy articulating that argument to Blizzard instead.

------
FrozenVoid
Thats C++ source from v1.00 pre-expansion, an early version that is quite not
the polished game that v1.07/v1.08 was, written on pre-c++98 MSVC code by
inexpirienced and overworked programmers, when win95 was the mainstream OS and
128mB of ram was plenty and 3D cards were luxury products(most used
motherboard graphics).

[https://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/tough-times-on-the-road-
to-...](https://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/tough-times-on-the-road-to-starcraft)

~~~
blkhawk
When Windows 95 was the Mainstream OS 32 MB was what most people had and 64mb
was plenty. Most people used PCI or VLB 2D graphics cards. There was simply
not enough memory on the board for IGU. Most PCs had not even got USB by that
point.

~~~
FrozenVoid
People who couldn't afford video cards would use motherboard graphics. They
were usually not fit for gaming, except for low-resource games, and 3D/2D
accelerator cards were sought after.
[http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1209125](http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1209125)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Integrated_Systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Integrated_Systems)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_810](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_810)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel740](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel740)

------
jfoutz
I would never want to go up against blizzard legal, but I have a hard time
with the "trade secret" bit when the box came from eBay. The guy didn't sign a
contract with blizzard.

I have cds with intellectual property on them. It's not like he's copying it
all willy nilly. No different than finding a manual of procedures for some
random organization.

The only "real" risk seems to be possessing stolen property (maybe, could have
been a gift or souvenir). But stolen 20 years ago and never reported.

I can't understand how keeping the disk is particularly bad. But good for them
for giving it back. I think it belongs in a museum, but back home at blizzard
is ok too.

~~~
scottlamb
> I would never want to go up against blizzard legal, but I have a hard time
> with the "trade secret" bit when the box came from eBay. The guy didn't sign
> a contract with blizzard.

From what he wrote, I don't think they said he was under legal obligation to
return it to them. I think they said why they wanted him to, they asked
nicely, and they thanked him afterward. Seems perfectly appropriate to me.

~~~
jfoutz
Corporations have a bad track record at preserving stuff like this. Celluloid
movies are a great example. And blizzard already lost this one once. But,
yeah, this is ok.

------
rweichler
You'd have to pay me way more money than that to keep such a pungent cultural
artifact buried. What a shame!

~~~
failrate
I would have returned it after I made a personal copy... maybe.

~~~
sparaker
Who is to say this guy didn't do the same :)

~~~
takeda
At that point that would be really stupid of him, since now they know who he
is.

Instead creating posts and teasing other people (for karma?) he should just
leak it. People are saying that it would be wrong etc. For goodness sake this
thing is older than half of people on HN. Everything there is outdated and
piracy-wise is not much worth.

Instead, preserving it to study and learn things about game development at
that time would be far more valuable for the common good.

~~~
elementalest
> Instead, preserving it to study and learn things about game development at
> that time would be far more valuable for the common good.

Given the game recently went free to play and many people still play it, its
not surprising blizzard are not releasing the source. If the game had been
dead for 5-10 years, then sure, they should probably release the source. Its
still going strong and shows no signs of stopping in the next 5-10 years,
especially now due to the remaster.

There are plenty of other games out there to learn from using the source, if
that's your goal.

> For goodness sake this thing is older than half of people on HN.

Are you saying that half of HN are younger than 19? I would have thought the
average age on HN would be somewhere around 30. I would expect the average HN
person was a kid or teenager when Starcraft was released.

~~~
fatman13gg
> For goodness sake this thing is older than half of people on HN.

> Are you saying that half of HN are younger than 19? I would have thought the
> average age on HN would be somewhere around 30. I would expect the average
> HN person was a kid or teenager when Starcraft was released.

Maybe its a metaphor? A game of 19 years old could be say of 60 or 70 human
age considering how fast game iterates.

------
devwastaken
In other news, Blizzard pays less than $1000 to make sure modders can't make
starcraft better than they can.

~~~
justicezyx
I am particularly confused by Blz's rationale.

Valve basically own a significant fraction of its success to community: CS
(based on modder produce) Dota2 (bought from a modder); these 2 are their big
revenue sources.

While Blz seems always intended to disallow any modder involvement at all.
Most Tower Defense games own their popularity to the early days of SC and
warcrfatIII. And Dota is basically just a warcraft III mod.

If Blz can learn anything from Valve, it's that they can capitalize on the
fan/moder based community, really easy. They just never did anything like
that.

On the contrary, they always want to redo what community did to drive off
their creations...

This does not sound rational to me...

~~~
FullMtlAlcoholc
>Valve basically own a significant fraction of its success to community: CS
(based on modder produce) Dota2 (bought from a modder); these 2 are their big
revenue sources.

I simply do not understand this. Moders created an entirely new genre and
basically brought Competitive Gaming to the masses, yet Blz won't allow
modding on Overwatch. I've had discussions with people who support this and
their rationale basically boils down to (1) they don't want to fracture the
userbase and (2) they love the design and don't want to upset it. Both are ill
founded. The userbase is in the millions and mods would get ppl like me to
play again. Also, any graphical mods can simply run on my local machine,
exactly like DotA2.

The game engine itself is superb and possibly hanfles/plays better than any
other FPS with maybe Destiny being the only competition. There is no doubt
modders would create a superior gaming experience. Learn from Bethesda

~~~
chickenfries
See, I think there's a huge difference between Activision Blizzard games and
either Valve or Bethesda games. Sure, Valve and Bethesda have probably
contributed more gaming experiences to the world across their many games and
their liberal policy towards modding. There are only a few Blizzard games, but
they're better and they make much more money. It's a tightly controlled
experience, but the quality control means Blizzard fans will at least try
almost every Blizzard game at some point. Can't say the same for Bethesda.
Valve has fewer games, but the experiences are not as different as say,
Hearthstone and Overwatch.

~~~
BigJono
>but they're better

Citation needed.

I've played a ton of AAA multiplayer games over the years. Hearthstone is
hands down the worst one that I've given a fair chance to (>20-30 hours of
playtime). To say that it's better than Counter-Strike (which many regard as
the epitome of competetive FPS gaming and has stood the test of time in that
role for almost as long as Starcraft has done the same for RTS) is an absolute
joke.

~~~
scrollaway
To compare a turn based CCG to a competitive FPS is an absolute joke.

To generalize your dislike of a CCG, one of Blizzard's multiple games, into an
argument against GP is a joke.

Whether modders would make as positive an impact in HS as they did in Valve
games is very unclear, and I say that as the author of a Hearthstone simulator
and founder of a community and company heavily involved in Hearthstone
modding, reverse engineering and third party tooling.

~~~
BigJono
GP outright stated that Blizzard's games are better than Valve's and
Bethesda's because of their strict control over quality/lack of community
content.

My point is that Hearthstone is an objectively worse game than Counter-Strike
is, in the same way tic-tac-toe is inferior to Chess in almost all respects.
I'm not denying Hearthstone is fun, and makes a metric ton of money. I play it
a reasonable amount and have spent money on it. But it's not a good game.

I don't see how providing a direct counter-example to an argument is
'generalising', but whatever.

~~~
scrollaway
Overwatch is a far, far better game than TF2 (also a far better comparison)
and I would definitely say that one of the drivers for that is Blizzard's
quality control.

~~~
croon
Or it could be that Overwatch is 9 years newer.

~~~
scrollaway
You mean, that TF2 has had a 9 years headstart in improving and polishing
their game's design, add more content etc?

~~~
croon
It's hard to throw out core principles or do massive overhauls without
starting over. At that point it's no longer a patch. They had many years to
consider what made a game good, and what to improve on, and modernize
concepts.

------
infinityplus1
Many are blaming him for not releasing the source code anonymously. Do you
really think he had the knowledge to do that safely? He would have already
done that if he could. It's really simple, don't play with fire if you don't
know how to handle it.

~~~
yomly
How would you release something anonymously? Tor?

~~~
infinityplus1
TOR seems to be the best option. But even I don't know much regarding the best
practices.

------
sverige
What has happened to the pirate spirit that used to exist in this country?
That was found booty, nothing more, nothing less. What a shame. Guess I'd
better send back to Microsoft that copy of "Chicago" I got from the U. of
Florida servers back in the day.

------
d--b
Come on guys... Had any of you made Starcraft, you'd be very happy to have the
disc back. Blizzard's behaved ok I believe in flying the guy to blizzcon and
giving him the perks he got.

While it's interesting to have the code, there's probably nothing really
amazing about it. However, the game is still being played, so releasing the
source code may help people cheat.

------
jvdl
Wow, this thread. Plenty of people insisting on gaining access to source code
they didn't write and had no part in developing.

News flash: it's not your product, you don't own it, and you have no rights to
insist on hijacking someone else's product for your own gain.

~~~
acuozzo
> News flash: it's not your product, you don't own it, and you have no rights
> to insist on hijacking someone else's product for your own gain.

Shit:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Fox_vault_fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Fox_vault_fire)

Happens:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_MGM_vault_fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_MGM_vault_fire)

If something is culturally significant then it should be preserved and these
two hyperlinks should easily make the case that preservation requires
distribution.

------
recentdarkness
Karma is a ... -- Being honest had always been having its perks for me too

~~~
icebraining
Honest about what?

------
vatotemking
n-gate.com is so gonna love this thread

------
jbmorgado
I think we are mixing two terms here: Intelectual Property and Trade Secrets.

The code doesn't seem protected by intellectual property but it's a trade
secret. Just like Mona Lisa was intellectual property of Leonardo, but the way
he created the different paint colours was his trade secret.

A trade secret don't necessarily have to be protected by law, the moment it
gets out, then people are free to use it as they see fit. That's what I think
about this source code: it got out somehow (even if the way it got out was
illegal or not), but the moment it comes to public it becomes general
knowledge.

------
jlebrech
and not long afterwards they re-release the game for free with a new
installer.

looks like they finally found that long lost source code.

------
rjeli
This article breaks my heart to read.

~~~
burntrelish1273
Totally. He could've seeded a torrent and uploaded to Mega from a coffeeshop
and no one would've known.

------
goldenkey
This is why there are two types of people. Those that ruin it for everybody
else, and those that don't. What a dunce.

------
Kenji
I wouldn't have returned the source code for 10000$, let alone a measly 250$.

~~~
ricardobeat
Have you considered a career as a kidnapper? Taking it a bit too far but think
about the why. The code is proprietary regardless.

~~~
Kenji
Giving back the source code is like burying an ancient Egyptian mummy you just
found. Of course the Pharaohs would protest you taking away the mummy but who
cares? It is about preserving culture and making its intricate details visible
to everyone.

~~~
ricardobeat
Not like that at all. The source is Blizzard's intellectual property, doesn't
matter where you found it (not to mention you're overestimating the cultural
value of the source files).

If culture is to be preserved I'm sure some of the original developers would
make so. On the other hand, we could definitely do with shorter IP rights like
20-30 years, so that devs could legally release it within their lifetimes.

~~~
Dylan16807
>The source is Blizzard's intellectual property

The tomb and its contents are the property of the Pharaoh in it.

~~~
IsmaOlvey
Except the Pharaoh would still be alive(!?) in this case.

~~~
Dylan16807
The source code will be Blizzard IP for a long time after the coders are dead.

