
Ask HN: Where are the opportunities outside of Silicon Valley? - Apocryphon
Within the U.S., what other destinations could software engineers and those who are seeking to create tech startups go to? I've heard of many other cities already, but I'd like to narrow it down to two starting criteria (feel free to add your own):<p>* Opportunity- for those who would just like to go work, the level of demand for software developers. For those who would like to launch a startup outside of SV, the abundance of VC firms and other sources of funding in the area.<p>* Quality of life- the Bay Area has unrivaled weather, and unrivaled high rent prices. How do other cities compare?
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JOnAgain
Not making these lists is LA, which I like. Specifically West Side. Santa
Monica is great, and easily best weather of any of these listed. Good
nightlife in Hollywood. Better startup scene than Seattle (at least relative
to 2 years ago, haven't checked out Seattle startups in a while). Also, don't
underestimate the value of a well-connected airport. If you're not in the bay
or NYC, you'll have to travel a lot if you're connected. LAX is remarkably
accessible from the West Side, and has flights to everywhere leaving in 2
hours. Seattle has one of the least accessible and least connected airports.
Portland would be worse. I hear good things about Austin.

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dccoolgai
Here's my "Short List" beyond the obvious ones (NY, Chicago, Boston):

Pittsburgh - Steady growth of banking and insurance has created a nice raft of
demand for developers. (+) Great museums/culture, (+) food and (+) social
scenes. (-) Stiff winters (although not as bad as some other places). (-)
Requires a car, really. (+) Super-cheap rent.

D.C. - This is where I live now. Overall, I'm happy with it and don't plan on
leaving anytime soon. Government, Non-Profit Associations, Defense and
Politics provide an enormous raft of demand. Even mediocre developers can
switch jobs at a whim and most smart employers know that and act accordingly.
(+) Tons of free culture and activities. (+) Great infrastructure (car not
necessary if you live by a metro). (-) Not much of a "startup scene", per se,
but (+) insane opportunities for consulting. (You're not going to start a
billion-dollar startup in DC, but you have a much better chance of starting a
multi-million-dollar business than probably anywhere else in the country.) (-)
Summers are nasty and humid. (Probably only Florida, Louisiana are worse). (+)
Spring, Autumn are awesome and winters are (usually) mild. (-) Rent is
expensive (but not like NY/SF/LA.)

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001sky
_Quality of life- the Bay Area has unrivaled weather_ : It sounds like you've
never lived a whole year in SF weather! Although its nicer certain times of
year in palo alto or berkeley, etc. =] To answer your question, though:
consider specialty niche.

SV - For pure tech or big-blue-sky-idea-ish. Also, anything HW (viz apple,
chips, tesla etc) or hands-on engineering.

NY -Doesn't have the "tinker in the garage" culture traditionally, due to
high-rent and lack of garages ;). But for Finance/BigCo, Avertising/ad-tech,
Data Analytics, Specialty Retail/fashion/etc, or Old Media
(copyright/music/publishing), and EMAE facing international markets it's very
competitive.

[ex-us]

London - Similar to NY for specialty. Lacks the VC and start-up bench-depth of
talent to some extent. Similar to SF weather, better nightlife and public
tranist. More $$$.

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tptacek
New York ($$$), Portland ($), Austin ($), Boston ($$), Seattle ($).

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paulsutter
Your only negative on the bay area seems to be high rent.

I'd suggest you turn that around. High rents are an excellent indicator of
opportunity and quality of life. Location is a market and the good things cost
more.

For someone just starting out, there's nothing like the bay area. Of course,
I've been around the block a few times and I've moved to Seattle to get away
from valley groupthink.

Nothing beats visiting in person. Spend time in each place you'd consider and
you'll just know what feels right.

~~~
tomasien
I'm not sure OP meant high rent as a negative. While "high rent" would seem to
mean "ugh I have to pay more for rent" it has other implications regarding the
type of people you will be surrounded by.

I won't include commentary on how I feel about that or say for sure that is
what OP meant, but I wouldn't assume they meant it as a negative considering
they included it in the positive attributes.

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Apocryphon
Actually, I did intend it as a negative. I wanted to contrast the great
weather with it. I just couldn't think of any negatives at the time, but some
more include the aforementioned "SV bubble" and the relatively lamer social
opportunities compared to other metropolitan areas.

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vivekb
New York has a much better night life, and comparable but _slightly_ cheaper
rent than SF. The culture is much more interesting (IMO), and the companies
here are very diverse and full of talent.

Bigger companies have made also investments here, most notably Google (3k
people, a whole city block, and whole products reside here). Others include
Facebook, Twitter, and eBay.

You might find that in the Bay Area tech is all around you – that's not quite
true in New York. It's growing and fairly large at this point, but only for
the people that are in the scene. There are tons of other scenes in the city
(e.g. Fashion, Finance, Food). Overall, I prefer the diversity of industry and
culture in New York – it makes it a more interesting place to be. The weather
is decidedly worse in new york when compared to that of the bay area, but fall
and spring can be beautiful here.

Source: Have worked at tech companies in SF and New York

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devinegan
Las Vegas * Opportunity- Young community that you can take part in shaping.
Zappos is moving downtown and transforming the entire landscape. Money being
invested in revitalizing downtown Las Vegas including strong startup activity,
growth and investment. It is an exciting time. <http://downtownproject.com/>

* Quality of life- It gets hot in the summer, but is sunny year round and never gets much cooler than the Bay area. The housing market has collapsed in Las Vegas leaving affordable options in any part of the city. The city has excellent Entertainment and Restaurants. No State Income tax. Beer is served 24 hours a day. Cheap 1 hour flights to SFO.

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aed
New Orleans:

\- Emerging startup scene and growing ecosystem for nurturing startups

\- Established companies bringing big offices here: \-- GameLoft, 8 jobs open,
more to come (<http://www.jobsinnola.com/New/index.htm>) \-- GE Capital, 35
jobs open, hiring 300 by 2015 ([http://jobs.gecareers.com/go/GE-Capital-
Jobs/236076/?filter=...](http://jobs.gecareers.com/go/GE-Capital-
Jobs/236076/?filter=true&location=New+Orleans))

\- Excellent cost of living, excellent culture, excellent food, laid back
atmosphere

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jfasi
New York is going to be the second choice here, I think. The culture is
certainly a little different in terms of VCs and the sorts of companies that
take up residence there, but it's a great place to be.

After that, having spent a good length of time in Boston, I can say that there
is a small but very healthy startup community there.

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wh-uws
Yeah my purely speculative, non scientific list goes like this:

1) The Bay Area (Silicon Valley + SF etc.) - Pretty much perpetually

2) NYC

3) Austin,Tx and Boston are tied

3.5) Chicago

4) Seattle, Boulder,Co ; and Los Angeles are tied

5) Any other major city with a good engineering school in the vicinity or
other major money industry with that needs a few Computer Science and/or IT
guys around (i.e. Oil)

A few cities like this include: Atlanta, Houston, Dallas, Washington D.C.,
Miami, Kansas City (especially since Google Fiber is rolling out there), and
Las Vegas

Just for info, I currently live in Austin. Almost moved to SF but just
finished school and prefer the nightlife in Austin

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enraged_camel
Funny you mention Chicago. I'm there right now for a business trip, and
decided I'd love to move here. I was wondering about the startup scene
though...

I currently live in Long Beach, CA which is 30 mins south of LA, and it blows.
There is a distinct lack of techies and nobody is working on solving
interesting problems. Maybe it's different in LA proper though.

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wensing
What makes you say you'd love to move to Chicago?

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enraged_camel
I like the vibe of the city. There's a ton of interesting things to do, people
pay attention to their appearance, and the architecture is awesome. Plus, it's
not ultra-crowded like NYC, which makes real-estate affordable.

~~~
timjahn
Chicago resident here. It's a great city indeed and the startup scene is
growing rapidly. Happy to chat/answer any questions you have about it all.

tim at matchist dot com

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japhyr
Is there much going on in Portland, OR?

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gkelly
Well there's this, recently on HN:

[http://blog.appfog.com/could-portland-be-the-best-city-in-
th...](http://blog.appfog.com/could-portland-be-the-best-city-in-the-country-
for-developers-right-now/)

