
Recruiters and investors think talent counts for more than determination - e15ctr0n
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21679803-recruiters-and-investors-think-talent-counts-more-determination-best-or-keegan
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mildbow
Actually, both look for signals of accomplishment and both are willing to take
whatever signals you can provide to that effect.

Didn't go to a top-tier school? That's ok, let's talk about what you've built.
You haven't built anything? That's ok, let's talk about what you've done? You
haven't done anything you feel proud talking about? All that together is not
ok.

You have to have _something_

I'd argue that talent is actually some minor ability/sense of
passion/direction augmented by the compound effect of sustained effort
(determination).

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trjordan
If you're shooting for exceptional results, you need both. A natural can be
incentivized to work harder. A striver cannot be incentivized to be smarter.

It might be wrong, but if you're looking for an IPO-able company, I'd pick the
natural every time.

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solotronics
There is no such thing as a natural in tech. Take for example John Carmack who
you would consider a natural. He writes an extreme amount of code, he is known
for writing his own libraries from scratch. I think that there are natural
factors that come into play but with coding the vast majority of talent comes
from drive.

~~~
ditonal
Sure, but the ability to stay focused enough to write high-quality code for
hours on end is a talent in and of itself. I know many programmers who I think
I am equal to if we both sit down fully rested and program for a few hours,
but they can keep churning out good stuff for a long time after I'm tired and
checking Hacker News because I lost focus.

~~~
emcq
Are you sure that's not just the adderall? Asking mostly as a joke, but I know
a few people who use it specifically for these purposes.

~~~
sloppycee
ADHD/ADD seems to be common in our industry, a side effect being 'hyperfocus'
or what we (as an industry) refer to as 'flow'.

For me, amphetamines actually allow me to productively switch my focus. 8+
hours of hyperfocus, while making me seem like a ninja unicorn rockstar, is
just not sustainable and burnout is a real problem.

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ThrustVectoring
Recruiters and investors aren't making a decision based on talent or
determination - they make a decision based on whatever proxies to those values
that they can glean from a candidate. Proxies for talent are much more
difficult to fake than proxies for determination.

Furthermore, determination is something that the candidate can choose to turn
off or to turn towards different ends.

Anyhow, my point is that there are excellent reasons to select for talent,
even if hard work and determination is a more valuable personality trait for
those who have it.

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thewarrior
Man this bothers me so much.

Some of my friends and even myself have gotten rejected in interviews , after
answering all the questions , clearing all the tasks just because I presume we
were not the geniuses they were looking for.

It's not enough to be good. You gotta be eye poppingly prodigiously awesome
sauce at what you do.

You can be determined , driven whatever , they don't want you because you're
at risk of turning out to be a B-Player.

This is almost a form of cognitive elitism.

~~~
ArkyBeagle
I think these people are Waiting for Superman. Watch their ads after they
decline to offer you - it'll run until they just take it down without filling
the position.

In the end, it's still just a job. Hopefully, it's fun and all but I can
attest that it's possible to take it all too seriously.

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sethbannon
Paul Graham wighted in on this, saying that in his experience by far the most
important trait in successful founders is determination.
[http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html)

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vinceguidry
I can understand why. You measure talent by looking for a proven track record,
maybe not in the marketplace, but at least in results verified by others.
College grades, awards, projects all point to a talented candidate.

On the other hand, determination without talent-indicating accomplishment
points to an applicant that doesn't have his head in the right space and that
isn't likely to succeed. I've met plenty of people with "do or die" attitudes
that neither did nor died. 5 years down the road they're still looking for
someone to just give them that chance they know that's all they need to start
rocking and rolling.

~~~
mandeepj
On the other hand, talent also does not mean that his head is in the right
space.

~~~
vinceguidry
It's a form of lamp posting, for sure, but people lamp post because building
flashlights is often too much hassle for them, even if you'd prefer they do it
that way.

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eli_gottlieb
So... capitalists make the exact same Fundamental Attribution Error as
everyone else?

~~~
ArkyBeagle
Only much, much moreso.

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nordsieck
Any study that asks people what they would do is basically worthless.

~~~
asdfologist
Source?

~~~
Brotkrumen
A survey.

Or, you know, [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-
report_study](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-report_study)

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kevinaloys
What If I'm a genius of working hard?

