

Adobe abuses AdSense to force “We Love Apple” pop-ups for Mac, Opera users - alanh
http://theinnovationist.com/2010/05/adobe-pops-above-google-to-flash-apple-and-opera-users/

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rmorrison
This is getting silly. If people are pissed about flash on the iPad + iPhone,
then they won't buy these devices. But trying to employ the "taking away your
freedom" argument is incorrect and seems like a last ditch flailing effort by
Adobe.

It reminds me of the used car salesman in True Lies when he's posing as a spy
and trying to get Jamie Lee Curtis to sleep with him. "If you won't do it for
me, then how about doing it for your country".

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josefresco
The same argument could have been made about people buying Windows in the
90's. If everyone was so pissed about what MS did to Netscape they could have
simply chosen another OS, but they didn't. Consumers don't realize the issues
at hand, they just want a cool device, just like they wanted an OS that worked
and couldn't care less about who got screwed along the way.

~~~
bruceboughton
If consumers don't realise the issues then they are non-issues. That is the
way of the 21st century.

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mambodog
I love how they are making use of what is essentially a 'Flash hack' commonly
used by shady types to get around popup blockers – load a Flash object and use
that to launch a new window – to show a popup preaching the virtues of Flash.

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apike
Bonus for users without Flash installed: the ad doesn't work.

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NathanKP
So basically all Adobe is doing is irritating people who are already users of
Flash and giving them a reason to disable it.

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mwilcox
No, it's advertising the issue to the people who might care about devices not
having flash - ie, the people who actually use it

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aw3c2
"Imagine you would not see this ad! That's right, the iPad does not shows
content like this."

I am flash-free for a year now and don't regret it the slightest.

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Vivtek
I can't imagine this doing anything but backfiring.

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astine
This is really strange. Adobe is highlighting the worst parts of their product
in their attempt to appear the good guy in the fight. It's as if a politician
were attempting to win votes by throwing bricks with political slogans
attached through the windows of his constituents. It may have worked for the
Nazis, but I don't think it will work for Adobe.

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petercooper
The piece doesn't speculate much on how this is getting forced through
Adsense. That's the interesting part for me, as either Google is aware of it,
or it's an against-terms workaround. If I had to /guess/, it might be related
to the "rich media" and video formats they offer, with some custom code
getting pushed through in the embed.

~~~
jimminy
I didn't find out about the pop-ups until about 2am, and was exhausted, before
I finished writing the post I accidentally closed the tab, and lost the ad,
because Google yanked it, presumably. I'm still not certain about how it was
occurring but it was all javascript, about a dozen different script tags, with
the exception of this one piece that called the flash.

My main focus was on the point that Adobe was targeting specific users, with
the pop-up.

~~~
petercooper
Oh, I wasn't criticising your piece! I just see a bigger story in how the ad
was delivered rather than to whom. Anything that gets around my choice of not
opening popups is evil to start, but I'm very intrigued if this really is
coming through Adsense or some other mechanism. If Adobe can take advantage of
it, perhaps more insidious agents could too..

~~~
jimminy
It was definitely coming through Adsense, the code on my post was within the
ad, which had multiple indicators that it was indeed from Google. The only
proof that is left is the DoubleClick header, and the link within the "url"
variable.

I'm also a bit perturbed that someone could emulate what Adobe has done, and
use it as an attack vector, with widespread consequence.

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lunix
This doesn't abuse AdSense to force anything, it's simply using doubleclick as
a stats tracker to see who clicks. If you worship a brand please don't allow
it to cause you to spread misinformation about its competitors on the
internet.

I'm new to HN, is there no down-vote or report as inaccurate mechanism?

~~~
jimminy
Ok, use as a "stats tracker" doesn't explain the UA manipulation.

Also I don't know what brand you think I'm worshiping. I am not an Apple
Fanboy, I refuse to even use an iPod, not a Google Fanboy, I criticize them
fairly often, and as for Adobe, I use their desktop tools, but on the web I
don't think of them much. I despise brands, because they promote homogeneity.
I prefer products that work the best, and go with what works.

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jrockway
Are we sure Adobe is behind this? Anyone can make an ad saying they are
anyone.

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jimminy
That's true, but why would someone advertise for Adobe? The linked content
goes to Adobe's page, on the topic, <http://www.adobe.com/choice/?sdid=GXRVD>,
as well as use the same ads as they used in the papers yesterday.

~~~
trun
Good question, but this still seems fishy to me. Why would they do something
that would so obviously backfire? And unless I misread something, the ad
doesn't even work without Flash. If they're trying to target iPad / iPhone
users deprived of Flash, why would you make an ad that doesn't work without
Flash installed? This seems very amateur-ish.

~~~
jimminy
They aren't targeting iPhone/iPad users by default, they are only going after
"Mac" and "Opera" User-Agents, that also have Flash 8 or higher.

They're calling out Apple through it's other core base, that can use Flash.
The Flash also isn't in the add on Linux or Windows, unless of course you are
using Opera. If you are using one of these systems or those without, or
disabled, Flash, you only see a hyperlinked .gif.

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emehrkay
Adobe might have to pay a lot of $$$ not to be banned from goog

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UnknownSource
We shouldn't jump to conclusions. Has anyone else actually confirmed this? His
pop-up might have been from elsewhere..

~~~
jimminy
Yes, it's been confirmed, someone else saw the same source, an ad in Google
Reader on a Techcrunch article, that I hadn't shared when I was first working
on the story. Here is the discussion we were having about it when I went to
look into the issue. <http://ff.im/kjhfH>

~~~
UnknownSource
Just checking.. +1 for you

Because it seems a lot of crap coming here these days, nobody double checks
actually.

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messel
Good discovery by Jesse and great detective work by yourself Jimminy.

This would have been much more interesting had it shown flash on
ipads/iPhones.

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jorgecastillo
Everyday I feel less sympathy for Adobe.

