
More Teslas on the Road Meant Hours-Long Supercharger Lines over Thanksgiving - tomohawk
https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving
======
silencio
this definitely feels like a quirk of the route. kettleman city is right in
the middle of the la-sf drive along the 5. it's also basically like one of two
stops that has more than just some fast food restaurants, and a good place for
kids to run around.

breaking up the monotony of the ~400mi drive stopping at the halfway point
because the range is likely just short of the destination (and i assume even
shorter if there was traffic due to snow, plus range reduction in cold, plus
the elevation through the tejon pass), plus all the other stops along the 5
being much smaller or more inconvenient...

i'd be much more curious about how to handle this kind of demand in usage. i
drive a gas car and the gas station lines on this route can be atrocious too,
but people are done in a matter of minutes so it makes no real dent on travel
time.

~~~
digikata
I imagine a semi trailer rigged with a battery, grid connection, and a set of
chargers for seasonal surges. Maybe even a deployable solar panel array, but I
suspect the PV panel would be too constrained to be much more than a show
piece.

~~~
djrogers
You mean like this?

[https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/28/tesla-rolls-out-
literal...](https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/28/tesla-rolls-out-
literally-100-car-portable-superchargers-for-holiday-carmageddon/)

~~~
digikata
Hey now I can claim to think like Elon Musk!

~~~
m463
Too bad your idea that traveled back in time wasn't "A giant solar dish
powered by a space x laser in space"

------
Animats
So some bigger charging stations are needed in some inter-city locations. Not
that hard. That's the Madonna Inn, by the way, a famous sex hotel since the
1950s. Maybe they could offer a deal where you get valet charging with a short
stay.

 _This_ is a serious charging station, in Shenzhen.[1] 637 chargers.

[1] [https://thedriven.io/2019/05/24/worlds-largest-charging-
stat...](https://thedriven.io/2019/05/24/worlds-largest-charging-station-in-
shenzhen-powers-all-electric-taxi-fleet/)

~~~
djrogers
> That's the Madonna Inn, by the way, a famous sex hotel since the 1950s

Not sure what you were _trying_ to say here, but the implication is that this
is a dingy, sleazebag motel, only trafficked by hookers and pimps.

For the record, that's absolutely untrue.

~~~
ld00d
It's a pretty fun hotel with theme rooms and a really cool cave bathroom.

------
tutus
This major city, east coast HN driver had zero supercharger lines going to and
from the Midwest. Maybe the author should have put “In California” in the
title?

~~~
CodeWriter23
California appears to be the sample of what full electrification implies.

~~~
ec109685
Given Tesla charges for use of Super Chargers now and the cost of electricity
dominates build out cost, they should be able to build out enough
infrastructure in a cost neutral way to stay ahead of the curve.

~~~
cjhopman
Huh. Strange then that they aren't accelerating the construction of chargers.

~~~
ec109685
They only have so much capital and probably spending on new factorise instead.

------
ben174
This is largely due to the crazy free-supercharging giveaways Elon has been
giving away like candy. I see so many Tesla drivers using superchargers as
their primary charing spot. Hanging out in their car playing Cuphead or
shopping at the target, and topping their battery to 100% taking 1+ hours to
do so.

For people like me who charge at home, I just want to quickly jump into a spot
and get 90 miles range to get me home. Should take 15-20 minutes max to get my
battery there, but waiting line sucks.

~~~
m463
Nobody is driving out to kettleman city because they get free charging.

That said, "free" anything brings out outlier behavior that even the most
nominal charge would prevent. (the $10 copay for doctor visits is the same
thing)

~~~
alistairSH
They aren't driving out to Kettleman for free charging. But, they are stopping
there en route because free charging is available.

With gas stations, that doesn't happen - you just stop wherever you want. If
there's a line, you go to the next station.

------
toomuchtodo
> Really, all these long lines show is how our recharging infrastructure is
> woefully behind the demand for electric vehicles. Initiatives like Electrify
> America are a solid start, but even its 5,000 chargers won't come close to
> matching the convenience promised by a gas station. What we need is a
> massive national investment—public, private, or a combination thereof—to
> create a fast-charging network to rival the pipes, trucks, and pumps that
> make 87 octane flow like water for most folks.

Tesla has already invested $400 million in their network, and continues to
expand it (Electrify America was part of a settlement VW had to agree to as
part of Dieselgate, hence why they can't be VW branded). It's clear legacy
automakers aren't interested in making the investment, nor state or national
governments.

Lots of Superchargers under construction in California (where these queues
were): [https://supercharge.info/map](https://supercharge.info/map)

~~~
reitzensteinm
Does Tesla continue to expand it relative to the number of Teslas sold? I was
under the impression that the stalls per vehicle count has been getting much
worse ever since the Model 3 launch.

Although to do the calculations correctly, you'd want to normalize for charge
times which have improved with M3 + V3.

Cutting free lifetime supercharger access has probably reduced the day to day
load on the network, but isn't going to do anything at all to help with peak
use around holidays.

~~~
hndamien
They now have a mobile charge station with a bunch of chargers on it that will
help with peak times.

[https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-
mobile-...](https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-mobile-
superchargers-megapacks)

------
ChrisClark
Yeah, we need a few more years (or more!) before DC fast chargers are
mainstream. We need other companies to build them too.

~~~
clouddrover
Other companies are building them but they're building CCS chargers. Tesla's
still using its proprietary plug in North America. Tesla should switch their
cars and chargers to CCS (and allow other EVs to use them) to broaden the
charging infrastructure for all drivers.

~~~
londons_explore
Current CCS specs are lacking - a 200 Amp limit on DC charging means most EV's
can only charge at ~60 kilowatts. The connector is unwieldy and large. The
standard doesn't provide the ability for cars to put power into the grid
(something that EV makers really want to do because then they can cash in on
the lucrative reactive spinning reserve/frequency control market). The
connector also doesn't have any way to measure voltage drop across the high
current pins, so a bit of dirt could easily cause the whole thing to melt into
a gooey mess.

I can completely see why Tesla is holding off switching specs until CCS
improves or another standard comes to take its place.

~~~
Reason077
> _”Current CCS specs are lacking - a 200 Amp limit”_

There is no 200 Amp limit in the modern 150-350 kW CCS chargers being deployed
by networks like Ionity and Electrify America.

Tesla, of course, already uses CCS in Europe. A Model 3 can charge at over 190
kW on European CCS chargers. A Porsche Taycan (800V), 270 kW.

~~~
clouddrover
And here's a demonstration of a Tesla Model 3 charging on an Ionity CCS
charger:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrVZtzAqX4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPrVZtzAqX4)

Gets up to 499 amps.

------
omgwtfbyobbq
I think Kettleman already has 10+ V3 Superchargers. I suppose that explains
why there can be 50+ cars in line without getting the hours-long wait times of
SLO.

[https://electrek.co/2019/11/13/tesla-upgrading-largest-
super...](https://electrek.co/2019/11/13/tesla-upgrading-largest-supercharger-
station-v3-technology/)

To be fair, hours-long wait times can happen on normal weekdays too (SJC for
instance) when there are a bunch of locals using them.

Surprisingly (not really), the same issues that apply to food, gas, and rest
stops on holidays also apply to Superchargers.

------
aidenn0
Could someone rent a trailerable generator bring a large CNG or diesel tank,
and set up a temporary charging station on busy days like Thanksgiving and
Labor day?

Quick googling found e.g. a CAT generator[1] that has output sufficient for
charging 20 cars (150kW per 2 cars in a Tesla supercharger station).

Sure it's not green, but if it's one stop once or twice a year, surely that's
better than driving a gas car year round?

1: [https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/power-
systems/electri...](https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/power-
systems/electric-power/mobile-generator-sets/1000001247.html)

~~~
lykr0n
This is the first time I can remember stuff like this happening. I assume this
is the kind of thing nobody is really thinking about until it happens.

I think this is how the popup charger at Burning Man worked.

------
tomohawk
In addition to more stations, they need better batteries with better range. A
gas powered vehicle can go SF to LA without a fillup. Since the EVs need more
frequent fillups, it puts more strain on the stations.

~~~
lemoncucumber
And it's a double whammy since not only do they need more frequent fill-ups,
but the fill-ups take way longer compared to pumping a tank of gas (even with
fast charging). It seems like a major hurdle to true mass market EV adoption.

~~~
ec109685
How often do you folks make a 400 mile trip to LA?

I did a 250 mile trip from Bay Area to Central Valley. Stopped for 20 minutes
on way back in Coalinga to add 80 miles of range at 400 miles of charging per
hour.

~~~
tomohawk
I get down to 100 miles of range in my non-EV, and I fill'er up. Having a
reserve is important. Spending 20 minutes for 80 miles seems ludicrous given
that doesn't even meet my minimum reserve requirement and is very expensive in
terms of time. Even with the advertised new chargers they're rolling out, they
provide 80 miles of range for a 5 minute charge. Progress for sure, but the
non-EV bar is much higher.

Gas powered cars get 500+ miles of range with a 5 minute fillup. And the range
is not dependent on other variables such as battery age or ambient
temperature. What's the EV range at 5F (-15C) - a pretty common temp in the
winter? What if the batteries are 5 years old?

A gas powered car is going to need far fewer fillups per week than an EV, and
be far more flexible - its one less thing you have to think about and plan
for.

Those extra fillups required by EVs require more stations to be built -
including at your home and place of work.

------
proee
Hopefully future EVs will support rapid charging. If you could top your
battery to 80% in 5 minutes that would be a game changer for EV stations. At
that point, you could integrate them into a more traditional "gas station"
style service.

------
macjohnmcc
Mophie needs to make a battery case for the Tesla's!

------
economyballoon
Maybe its a trick by TESLA to force the owners to buy solar roofs and
powerwalls. This lets the economy grow. Just a little bit.

------
akersten
I think recharging is a transitory solution anyway. The real game changer will
be automated battery swaps.

Imagine stopping at the charging station and having the entire battery pulled
out and replaced with a charged one, pit-stop style. It completely neutralizes
the #1 complaint about how long batteries take to charge, since there should
always be a supply ready-to-go at the station.

This would be an automated, underground mechanism - you wouldn't even have to
leave your car.

It will be faster than filling up a tank with gas.

~~~
clouddrover
Nio has implemented battery swapping in China:

[https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/power-shift-
batte...](https://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/power-shift-battery-
swapping-our-way-across-china)

I don't see it catching on. It's too much logistical hassle. Battery packs
can't be delivered as easily as fuel or electrons.

~~~
bamboozled
They’re not really delivered though, they’d be swapped and charged onsite ?

~~~
chii
And then you'd have people who would try to rort the system by swapping a bad
set of batteries with a good set from the station, and then sell it for a
profit.

~~~
akersten
There would be measures in place to prevent this, of course. They'd have to be
more robust than Redbox scanning for fake DVD returns, but you could sign the
battery firmware, do challenge/response, etc. before allowing the swap to
happen. All automatic of course. And if your battery turns out to be an
elaborate fake - well, we know whose car it came from, considering they drove
it to the station with a license plate attached.

~~~
chii
> you could sign the battery firmware, do challenge/response, etc. before
> allowing the swap to happen

so either you're only allowed to swap batteries at these authorized stations
(akin to today having a car that can only use petrol purchased from a
particular brand of station), or it's trivially easy to swap it yourself (or
with some easy to obtain equipment, like today's car oil change).

If it's the first case, then these cars are DRM'ed to hell and back. Not a
good world for the consumer.

If it's the latter, then battery swapping will happen. It's
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law)
applied to batteries.

~~~
bamboozled
You could very easily have standards in place to ensure compatibility between
garages ?

