
Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products has resulted in a flea market of fakes - drfuchs
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/11/14/how-amazons-quest-more-cheaper-products-has-resulted-flea-market-fakes/
======
habosa
My favorite Amazon scam is the Amazon Ship of Theseus[0]. You sell a product,
normally a cheap electronic, and build up a decent corpus of positive reviews.
A good example is a USB-C cable or something. Then you decide you want to sell
a new product in a more competitive subcategory, like Bluetooth Headphones.
You then take the _existing_ listing and change it piece by piece. First the
pictures, then the title, then the price, etc. Until you have a listing for
your headphones that comes with 5,000 pre-made positive reviews! Sure they're
for a totally different product, but that doesn't affect the rankings.

I see this all the time. If I go back in my order history and click on old
products often the same "id" now maps to a totally different thing.

For this reason I have basically stopped ordering from Amazon. I find that
Walmart has like 99% of the inventory but none of it is fake (some is junk,
but it's the junk I asked for). Same prices, same ship speed, no fake shit.

0:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus)

~~~
download13
There's also a more subtle version of this, where the seller leaves the
listing the same, but once enough positive reviews have accumulated they move
production to a cheaper factory and use cheaper materials.

So you might see older reviews for a pair of boots that say they're made from
sturdy materials with good stitching, followed by later reviews saying that
they didn't match the advertised sizing and pictures, or that they just fell
apart after a couple weeks of use.

~~~
cwp
I wonder how much of this is because Amazon started out selling books and CDs.
Those things don't really have quality issues, and are pretty much fungible.
Now, decades into their "everything store" strategy, they're still trying to
treat everything like books.

~~~
remotecool
I have had a book business for the last 8 years and in the last 3, there has
been a massive increase in counterfeit books.

The biggest issue is that there isn't any way to really know if it's a
counterfeit unless you send them to the publisher. Many are so good, you can't
really tell the difference unless you really know what to look for.

I tried this once and in response they sent me a cease and desist letter
claiming I was knowingly selling counterfeits.

They went away after I got my attorney involved, but it isn't really helping
the publishers because I still don't really know how to spot counterfeits,
besides the obvious signs.

The publishers really want to get rid of the secondary markets because they
don't make any money on it...so they are using attorneys to squash it instead.

------
Glyptodon
Forget counterfeits for a second.

Even trying to find something like an ultrasonic cleaner on Amazon is like
straight going through AliExpress.

But wait! Unless you're buying a very very expensive lab model all the "name
brands" look to be sourcing the same way and adding a label too. So the name
brands are AliExpress with maybe better QC and 200% markup.

But wait! Even looking everywhere else it's the same situation as Amazon!

It's almost like the entire marketplace is overrun with untrustworthy cheap
crap no matter where you shop and getting something you can trust is decent is
only for large institutional or business actors and the wealthy.

Which is to say I think the problem is bigger than just Amazon.

~~~
heavyset_go
> _But wait! Even looking everywhere else it 's the same situation as Amazon!_

It isn't a problem on Walmart or Target's websites, because they don't allow
white-label Chinese goods to be sold on them.

~~~
Glyptodon
Walmart has very similar results to Amazon, just not quite as much, and
limiting results to Walmart.com helps a _tiny_ bit more. So I don't agree
there.

You're mostly right about Target, they pretty much only sell stuff that they
carry or brand themselves, but the other side to it for Target is that often
you can't find what you want there at all - they have a pretty limited
selection, and in any case the stuff they brand themselves just costs more and
looks a little nicer, but usually it's not actually quality.

~~~
heavyset_go
Walmart partners with their suppliers because they have a direct liability for
selling dangerous or counterfeit goods. Amazon's lawyers try their best to
shift all liability from themselves to their suppliers.

If I buy a product from Walmart that is faulty and injures me, liability falls
on Walmart.

~~~
Glyptodon
They still sell tons of stuff from the infinite dictionary of random import
brand names that nobody's ever heard of like "Amplim," "Kootion," "Ktaxon,"
"Yosoo," "Zimtown," "Zokop," etc.

~~~
LoSboccacc
yeah but they test and QC it and take care of the certification required to
sell it.

------
benologist
Amazon's decision to employ lawyers and lobbyists instead of oversight
resulted in a public black market they openly run but are not responsible for
profiting from.

I am excited to see which state will have the first Amazon fulfillment center
crawling with feds. They have to raid one eventually to get to the bottom of
the lead, the counterfeits etc. How is Amazon preventing the EPA or the FTC
from doing their job and raiding facilities?

It's almost like big oil and big tobacco again.... all-powerful companies
deliberately doing wrong for profit, like Amazon they even looked too big to
challenge for a very long time.

> Amazon has been selling thousands of products that violate federal safety
> regulations, according to the Wall Street Journal, including toys containing
> dangerous levels of lead.

[https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-
poiso...](https://www.insider.com/amazon-selling-toxic-toys-lead-
poisoning-2019-8)

> At the time, Nike agreed to sell a limited product assortment to Amazon, in
> exchange for stricter policing of counterfeits and restrictions on
> unsanctioned sales of its products.

[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/13/nike-wont-sell-directly-
to-a...](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/13/nike-wont-sell-directly-to-amazon-
anymore.html)

~~~
dv_dt
Inequality is back to the time of robber barons of industry, and so too is the
lawlessness of many of the industry practices, where we are in the same state
where technology and scale of organization are outrunning the philosophical
theories of government operation to regulate them.

~~~
friendlybus
Amazon/Alibaba is making money pulling millions of chinese people out of
poverty. The inequality equation is the same as normal, we're just not the
focus of economic production at the moment. Comparing a normal western job to
a chinese wage & lifestyle makes us look like the 1%. Comparing the average
westerner who sells to 10k customers to bezos who sells to hundreds of
millions makes him look like the bourgeoisie.

Technology and orgs always outpace regulation. The government is terrified of
front-running business. It can't, the point of being a king is to control
resources for the sake of generating prosperity. It can't then go and do all
the work and be on the bleeding edge as well, it pays people to do that.

For all the control the tech companies have tried to exert in the world they
are reigned in by the banks and then government. At the end of the day amazon
hasn't made a big difference in my life for all of the $x bezo has. I don't
shop there, his lack of quality control is sinking his company. What's there
to worry about?

~~~
Dumblydorr
What about the counterfeits and lead levels in toys? Those are two major
issues that you glided right past in your non chalance

~~~
friendlybus
My non-chalance covered that reasonably well in the not buying from them and
recognizing that the lack of quality is sinking their company.

This isn't an inequality thing, mansa musa was more unequally rich than bezos.
It's just quality control.

------
blairanderson
I've been a consultant for Amazon suppliers since 2009 and seen tons of junk
come onto the market.

Every retailer in the world (besides Amazon) has incredibly strict supplier
verification because if someone dies from a toaster fire, extension cord
shortage, etc. then everyone sues everyone.

Amazon DNGAF because the risk is on the "seller". Just like TAX RISK is on the
"seller".

People are importing shit from their basement, trying to get rich, with no
clue about product risk when it should be slightly harder.

~~~
sjy
Has anyone actually tried and failed to hold Amazon accountable for a
dangerous product? I don't think it would be obvious to the average person
that they're not transacting with Amazon when they use the Amazon website, and
if Amazon's legal strategy depends on that distinction being upheld in every
country, it seems risky.

~~~
javagram
[https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2019/07/...](https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/local/tennessee/2019/07/09/amazon-
hoverboard-fire-home-nashville-court-damages/1672277001/)

“ Nashville mother Megan Fox didn’t know her hoverboard might explode, but
Amazon did.

Now, a federal appellate court says the nation’s largest online retailer may
well have to shell out damages for a fire that trapped Fox’s children, forced
them to leap from a second-story window and destroyed the family’s $1 million
home.”

------
privateSFacct
All the ballyhoo about Amazon Transparency and UUID per item. This is a
relatively well solved issue in other areas.

Make become a seller a bit more difficult with some skin in the game ($2,500
deposit if you sell more than 15 items per year? In person identity
verification?). Sellers used to meet with buyers agents (cost money and added
identities).

Caught selling garbage (product marked new actually used, totaly fake junk)
enough times -> gone from marketplace and hard to get back in.

The reality is Amazon doesn't care - there IS a market opportunity here for
someone to take them on with trusted product catalog and quick shipping (using
UPS / Fedex). I wish somebody would straight compete with them rather than all
the complaining to politicians.

~~~
dwoozle
The market opportunity is already occupied by Target! Great products, shipped
to you or delivered to your car in the parking lot. I’ve shifted at least 50%
of my Amazon spend to Target. I won’t buy anything that I eat, that touches my
children’s skin, that plugs in, or that has a Li-Ion battery from Amazon.

~~~
joemi
Target doesn't have nearly the same amount of products as Amazon, even if you
don't count the junk on Amazon.

~~~
ummonk
There lies the trade off. Quality control / trust verification is hard, and
you will have way more products available if you forego it. You’ll also have a
ton of junk mixed in too.

------
mortenjorck
There's a lot of emphasis in this article on counterfeits of luxury goods sold
at obviously counterfeit prices (like the Hermès for 5% of genuine retail),
but not much on the far more insidious (and seemingly pervasive, in my
experience) general merchandise counterfeits sold for what is often _not_ a
suspiciously big discount.

Categories like kitchen or yard tools are absolutely rife with counterfeits.
As an example, search Amazon for Ove Glove heat-resistant oven gloves: The
Amazon's-Choice-badged option (which, I know, is chosen by algorithm) yields a
product page where the top review complains they received a product without
several of the trademark details on the older set they own. The reviewer even
acknowledges the difficulty in tracking down genuine Ove Gloves on Amazon!
They ultimately resign themselves to defeat: "What a game: I rolled the dice
and lost."

Of course, there are also quite sophisticated fakes in categories such as
consumer electronics. Fake controllers for game consoles are a standout:
Search for the Playstation DualShock 4 controller and you'll find the official
product page littered with reviews complaining of an entire continuum of
fakes, ranging from obvious to ones that are almost entirely indistinguishable
until the knockoff battery stops holding a charge after a few weeks.

I'm not really sure what product categories are still safe to buy on Amazon,
given that everything from food to books has varying degrees of counterfeit
mixed in. At least something like an iPad should be impossible to fake due to
the cryptographic requirements for booting the OS.

~~~
ycombinete
Tbh, at this point I don’t buy anything I that a value authenticity in from
non-official distributors. I’ll go to the brands web page, and find their list
of official resellers and buy from them only.

~~~
perl4ever
I wanted a particular USB adapter, from what I thought was a "real" brand and
as far as I could tell from the manufacturer webpage, it's _only_ sold on
Amazon. And the only option on Amazon was a third party.

------
AlexandrB
Amazon's fulfilment has also become shockingly bad. Most items are shipped in
lightly-padded manila envelopes resulting in high percentage of damaged goods
if you order books[1], CDs/DVDs/BluRays, video games, or anything else where
the packaging is part of the product. eBay is a much better experience in this
regard.

[1] In an ironic twist, I absolutely refuse to buy books from Amazon anymore.

~~~
izzydata
I've received many damaged books from Amazon. Whenever I report the items as
being damaged I am prepared with photographs of the damaged goods as proof,
but they always send me another one without caring.

It just feels so wasteful to save money by mishandling everything to the point
where it doesn't even matter if stuff breaks because it is cheaper to try a
2nd time.

~~~
dangus
But you don't actually _know_ that this practice is wasteful. That all depends
on the numbers.

Let's say that Amazon sends out 100 books, and 1 or 2 get damaged. But if they
add some extra bit of packaging to every single one of those 100 books, zero
will get damaged.

Did this save cost or materials? I don't know, it depends on how much extra
packaging was needed, whether the damage was serious enough to initiate a
refund/re-send, and whether adding packaging to _every single order_ was less
environmentally impactful than having to print and send an extra book to those
who received damaged ones.

It's going to be a simple dollar value equation for companies like Amazon, and
make no mistake, they have the data and have made these decisions consciously.

~~~
fenwick67
I think the poster may have meant "a waste of a good book" not "a waste of
money".

It's like how throwing produce away at the grocery store is "a waste" but the
system is cost-effective.

~~~
LordDragonfang
The environmental impact of extra plastic packaging is much greater than the
impact of compostable produce.

And anyway, if Amazon has to ship extra books, they pay the publisher an extra
time, and you can always donate the damaged book as well.

------
blunte
Bezos is famous for being a micromanager to the extreme (and a very good one
reportedly, if rather tyrannical). So there is no question about whether he
has been personally aware of this situation for years.

This follows a similar pattern (MS/Gates) where very unscrupulous business
practices are employed until the company becomes a juggernaut and can do
anything it wants, and the top executives become fabulously wealthy. Then one
day, once the man is rich and successful enough that the thrill is gone, he
switches to professional philanthropy. As time passes, _how_ he got to the top
is forgotten and he is hailed a hero and American success.

~~~
chihuahua
What's funny about this article is that it's Bezos' own newspaper that's
calling him out

~~~
blunte
I just realized that also! I'm impressed at that...

The author, Jay Greene, has written a number of articles that show Amazon not
so favorably. This suggests some editorial freedom/neutrality at WaPo, which
is positive.

------
iliketrains
One of my Amazon orders was just re-ordered from Wallmart under my name and
shipped by Wallmart to my address. I even got the Walmart receipt with the
cheaper price in the package.

I was not happy about that, esp. that some stranger is entering my shipping
info to some other retailers DB. It is also clearly against Amazon ToS. I have
contacted Amazon, citing the ToS violation and concern about my personal data
and the only thing they said was that they are sorry and will notify the
seller bout this. Nothing happened.

Also, my honest review about this was taken down.

~~~
JohnFen
Since Walmart is on my list of companies that I will never do business with,
this would make me absolutely enraged. But then, I'm thinking that Amazon
should be added to my "no business" list as well, so this may be a moot point.

~~~
egdod
Why would Walmart be on that list at all?

~~~
JohnFen
Because I don't like several of their business practices, nor the impact
they've had on communities in my area.

------
heavyset_go
If you receive a counterfeit item sold by Amazon, make sure to report it to
the company whose product was counterfeited.

When I went to return a counterfeit item to Amazon, I made it very clear that
the item I received was fake. Amazon decided claim that the reason for the
return was because it was damaged, not counterfeited. That's pretty shady in
my book.

There's liability for selling counterfeited goods, especially if your
customers tell you that the products you stock are counterfeited and you
continue to sell them anyway.

~~~
closetohome
I'd just put "Item defective" or "Wrong item was sent." Both will net you a
free exchange.

~~~
heavyset_go
It's the principle. Other people shouldn't have to be sent counterfeit items
like I was after I make it clear that I was sent a fake item. Amazon certainly
shouldn't profit from it, either.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
I think this article seems like a good example of editorial independence. Even
though both Amazon and the Washington Post are pretty much owned by the same
person, the Washington Post has published a pretty negative article about
Amazon.

~~~
Retric
Not to question their independence, but it seems to have a very positive spin
for a negative article.

 _Amazon’s quest for more, cheaper products... Former executives say
e-commerce giant, which last year spent $400 million fighting fraud and abuse_
is kind of saying well their trying really really hard, honest.

I suspect this has less to do with the Amazon relationship than the tendency
to give similar weight to both sides of an issue. It's the lazy form of
neutrality where you look at the mid point on an issue rather than aim for
objective reality. Unfortunately, this causes a polarizing effect as extreme
views move the midpoint.

~~~
Frost1x
I was actually surprised the WP even wrote this much. I read the title and saw
it was a WP article and was immediately intrigued--not so much by the article
contents but how the journalism would play out given the tight relationship.

To me, it almost feels like damage control and saving face with all the given
FTC investigations on current market monopolies.

------
Timberwolf
There are some categories of product I'm no longer willing to buy from Amazon:
power cables, replacement chargers and batteries being the biggest offenders.
They're such a minefield of fakery and shortcuts that are outright dangerous
(e.g. UK plugs lacking fuses and with pins the wrong shape/size) that I'd
rather have the extra work and expense of going to a local shop where I can
inspect what I'm buying.

~~~
Havoc
>power cables, replacement chargers and batteries being the biggest offenders.

I've found Anker gear to be consistently solid on all three counts & frankly I
trust it more than store bought.

If I could even get it - wouldn't know where to start buying a 60W USB hub in
a brick & mortar.

~~~
AlexandrB
I wish Anker sold direct on their site (and shipped to Canada) because
searching for Anker products on Amazon almost invariably turns up a sponsored,
cheap knock off and an "Amazon Basics" product as the #1 and #2 results. I
can't imagine they're happy about that either.

~~~
Marsymars
Anker availability in Canada is weird. There seems to be no pattern as to
whether a particular item won't be available on amazon.ca, and whether the
amazon.com listing will be eligible for shipping to Canada. I've contacted
Anker a couple times about specific items, and they've just given non-answers
both times.

------
oblib
I quit Amazon Prime about 2-3 years ago and haven't purchased anything from
their site after they let a seller send me a completely bogus product (it was
supposed to be rose oil) and wouldn't let me rate and comment on it after I
demanded a refund (which I got).

And the product is still there. And while it has a lot of buyers still
exposing and complaining about it in the reviews Amazon has done nothing at
all to stop the sellers.

I really don't see how Amazon cannot be held both complicit and liable in
cases of blatant fraud like this, and one has to assume it's a pervasive and
growing problem for buyers there.

------
philip1209
Oh hey, that's me in the article :-)

After getting a fraudulent bag from Amazon, it was frustrating to have to
fight for a refund. While my credit card would have easily processes a
chargeback, I'm afraid do that. If you don't play by the rules of a
marketplace, then you risk getting banned.

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/6TNES](http://archive.is/6TNES)

~~~
branon
Thank you

------
Havoc
Must say my experiences with Amazon have been pretty consistently positive
despite heavy purchasing. Plus I buy mostly warehouse open box stuff which is
extra risky. Couple of lessons learned:

* Warehouse deal laptops don't get checked for batteries. So it might boot & be good but dies if you pull the plug

* Warehouse deal laptop have a increased chance of thermal issues (bad binning / bad thermal paste / whatever)

* Open box / used is basically untouched like half the time. They rarely show actual signs of wear despite a billion warnings about 1/4 scratch on front and 3/4 on back and what not.

* Pay careful attention to appliances that require both water and electricity. A cheap mini rice cooker was my 1 and thus far only genuinely sketchy Amazon encounter.

* Camelcamelcamel FTW

------
Jestar342
Amazon probably don't care about the authenticity of the items, only that
_they_ are fulfilling and shipping them.

~~~
Red_Leaves_Flyy
I find this hard to believe. Amazon happily sells returns missing parts as
new, or ships counterfeits sold and fulfilled by Amazon for months despite
reports in the reviews and subsequent returns. I should know, I've had both
happen repeatedly on different items.

~~~
Jestar342
Perhaps I'm being dense but I am pretty sure everything after your first
sentence actually concurs with my post.

------
chadash
The article talks about fake Hermes bracelets being sold for $25, when a real
one is closer to $600. It's obviously a counterfeit. Does Amazon not have any
requirement for a human to review a listing before allowing it up for sale?

~~~
throwaway35784
And they are both worthless pieces of jewelry. Who really cares about fake
fake stuff?

Some counterfeit stuff causes real harm though. Counterfeit electronics can
catch on fire. Food could poison you.

~~~
chadash
I'm not particularly upset about fake luxury goods either. My point is more
that if you can't stop things that an average person can tell you are obvious
fakes, them how much worse are you going to be at spotting the fakes on
categories where it matters more?

------
JohnFen
I remember when Amazon was a relatively safe place to shop, and I didn't have
to be as suspicious of what was sold there as I had to be in other places
(such as eBay).

But that stopped being the case a while back. I learned the hard way that I
can't be so casual about buying from Amazon anymore. This has eliminated a
large part of the advantage that Amazon had for me.

~~~
novaRom
There are different price-comparison sites in Europe, so I usually go directly
to idealo.de and there are so many choices! Amazon is not even the cheapest
place.

------
crb002
Manufacturers need to start issuing UUIDs and some sort of centralized or
decentralized API to track ownership. Surprised the high end purse
manufacturers haven’t done this.

~~~
jjoonathan
Many do, but only use it when convenient.

For instance, Fitbit used "no recipt => potential fake" to flake on the
warranty for my $300 watch. They absolutely do keep and track serial numbers
because actual fakes get detected and kicked out of the fitbit app, but the
fact that this database isn't public still lets them use fakes as scapegoats
when convenient. Best of both worlds!

------
sidlls
My wife has run a business for some time on Amazon. It's not big, mainly for
baby related products. She's in the process of issuing removal orders for all
the stuff in their warehouses and will discontinue the business there. Partly
this is due to the numerous cheap knockoffs and imitations of things she
worked pretty hard to source quality materials and manufacturing for driving
prices into the dirt, partly it's due to Amazon's outrageous fees (FBA can
take over 30% of the gross on some items), and partly it's Amazon's
inconsistent deactivation of products and demanding she "request approval" to
sell them--products she's been selling on Amazon for months or years.

The marketplace on Amazon is a dumpster fire.

~~~
binarysolo
Baby (category) is tricky - you can bet that she's getting all sorts of
approval things because some cheapass Chinese product poisoned some kid and
now Amazon has to really put pressure on all the legit existing vendors to
have MSDS sheets and whatever relevant testing sheets nowadays.

------
rbarnes01
Why not give the brand owners control of the product pages? They can decide to
allow distributors and block counterfeits.

Use eBay if you want to take advantage of the first sale doctrine. At this
point it's not worth the risk to Amazon's credibility.

------
nikolay
Except that Amazon is no longer the cheapest source for many products. Their
outrageous storage and fulfillment fees make most of their pricing higher than
local store deals or even manufacturer's own websites.

~~~
jklinger410
Came here for this. Amazon actually buries the cheapest price products in many
searches I have done.

eBay is not any better at this point. They are all squeezing to show higher
priced products so they can make more money, obviously.

Hate to say this but Walmart still seems committed to providing the lowest
prices.

~~~
toasterlovin
FWIW, speaking as a seller, the conventional wisdom is that number of separate
orders for a given item as a result of a given search term is the primary
driver of search result ranking. Not revenue maximization, in other words.

~~~
nikolay
Maybe you're right, but this is self-serving and not serving the goal of
presenting the cheapest products to customers. There are so many low-quality
products on Amazon. Often the packaging is outrageously wasteful as well. For
a bottle of supplements, they often sent a box within a box, filled with so
much plastic, paper, etc. The environmental impact on Amazon is huge!

~~~
toasterlovin
Actually, I would make the case that this _is_ best for customers. Amazon
would be better served by optimizing for revenue (so higher prices would rank
better), but customers are best served by what other customers like/bought (so
number of orders would rank better). Also, products have plenty of opportunity
to surface in search results. We have some top ranked items and Amazon
constantly rotates products through all parts of the search results. Probably
the reason that you're seeing lower cost items ranked lower is that they're
not very good products. The listing copy and images are probably bad, so the
listing doesn't convert. Or there are lots of returns. Stuff like that.

~~~
nikolay
Not really. When I'm looking to buy product A at the lowest possible price, I
don't care what somebody with totally irrelevant to my needs have purchased.
Also, the quality of product names and description with Amazon is below any
decent standards! They shut down my Amazon Pay account as I had an out of
stock item, which didn't have Nutrition Facts. But, tell me, how many of
Amazon products have those labels? Most of blury pictures, often outdated,
etc. If only they apply the same standards to their stuff!

------
hrdwdmrbl
I feel this problem as both a buyer and a seller. The fake copies are
everywhere and it's really hard to fix them. I am forced to buy my
competitor's fake product, receive it and then file a complaint that it's
fake. That is the only way I have to deter the fake sellers. As a buyer,
prices are also crazy sometimes. I never buy with confidence any more on
Amazon having faith about getting the lowest price. I now always double-check
Walmart and often Walmart is cheaper!

------
praptak
They seem to be aware of this. Amazon Transparency, if successful, will banish
fakes. In its essence it's about provable origin of each item, back to the
owner of the brand.

~~~
bloopernova
Amazon created the problem, and now they're selling a service to fix the
problem. That they created. Heckuva business model.

~~~
ilamont
And charging vendors for it. You have to buy the codes (5 cents per, no volume
discounts) and then pay one of their preferred printers up to 15 cents per
Transparency sticker.

~~~
rbarnes01
You don't need to use their preferred printers.

------
mindfulplay
I am a bit glad to see this come from WaPo and not NYT given the implication
of ownership....

------
lashieloo
This must be intentional on Amazons part. Other e-commerce companies like eBay
completely removes these sort of counterfeit luxury goods from appearing on
their site. Amazon could easily do the same thing if they wanted to. Also eBay
has even less seller verification than Amazon. So that excuse doesn’t work.

------
menacingly
I'm surprised Amazon hasn't taken action on the dicey quality problems,
because I've watched it grow from obscure topic of online conversation to
complaints from people I know personally who aren't particularly picky. This
must be costing them money, and it isn't getting smaller.

------
siruncledrew
Suddenly, Amazon's massive presence is also Amazon's weak point of entry to
encumber the experience.

Chinese sellers flock to Amazon to assert their seller positions in Amazon's
marketplace by doing whatever is necessary to ensure product ranking and
profit. They have the means, labor, and production at their disposal, which is
a competitive advantage that will only further cement their dominance.

Amazon contractors like warehouse workers and delivery agents couldn't give
less of a shit about the packaging or delivery of items.

The only thing from stopping sellers from going full-Taobao and just openly
selling/promoting every kind of brand-name fake, like replica North Face,
Louis Vuitton, and Apple, to US consumers is the legal attitude of IP in the
US compared to China.

------
a3n
Newegg deserves your dollar for what they sell, for being an anti-patent troll
warrior.

------
wcfields
Beyond counterfeits as mentioned another huge issue is getting someone else's
return.

I've been shopping for a bed frame and it's shocking how many people got bed
bugs from a bed frame they bought from Amazon. Mattress covers/protectors are
just as bad with people complaining of fleas and stains.

I brought this up at work and I was speaking to some of my co-workers with
kids, ditto goes for buying a high-chair to have one come with crud and food
all over it in the box.

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DayDollar
Just imagine, if you had a local person, who would wade through the muck for
you, combing the flea market for valuables and offer them to you. That
resident amazon shopping expert, could even open up a residency near you.
Where he would defuse planned obsolescence in cheap electronics and spread
happiness all aroudn for a small fee. That residence in a street near you - i
should patent this- we could call it a shop. What a concept.

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reiichiroh
What about when Amazon copies the product you make and sell?

[https://www.geek.com/news/amazonbasics-is-copying-all-the-
be...](https://www.geek.com/news/amazonbasics-is-copying-all-the-best-
products-on-amazon-and-selling-them-for-less-1652879/)

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novaRom
I stopped using Amazon because they sell mostly junk as recently: the same
pictures but different names, incorrect overemphasizing statements and fake
tech specs, mostly made in China objects. Examples: binoculars, microscopes,
telescopes, monoscopes, digital amplifiers, bluetooth headphones, etc.

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Akababa
It's the same as Wish and all the other "third-party" online marketplaces.
They don't give a shit because they're making so much money from the
"unsuspecting consumer" segment.

~~~
i_am_nomad
Most people using Wish are well aware of what they’re buying and how authentic
it is.

~~~
Akababa
That might very well be true for the repeat customers and people who buy
clothing, but I doubt anybody wants a 2TB USB stick that starts overwriting
itself after 100MB.

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tyjen
On one hand, it's interesting to see how sellers adapt to the rules set in
place by Amazon, but on the other hand, it's annoying to sift through hundreds
of items with questionable reviews or sources.

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a3n
> [All of the comments here that say "How can Amazon not be aware/not fix/not
> police this?"]

Amazon has learned from Google that past a certain size, it pays to be a non-
servicing opaque monolith.

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sharadov
Ironic that this appears on the washington post, Bezos's newspaper!

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ctingom
I've started ordering from other companies because of all of this. Walmart,
Home Depot, Target, and small businesses. Lots of good vendors out there that
ship quickly!

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bigbadgoose
It's sad and brilliant how they _look the other way_ while launching Amazon
Basics as a trusted brand

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sunstone
Selling fakes has been Amazon's business model from the beginning hasn't it?

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vernie
Should WaPo's coverage of anything related to Amazon be allowed here?

~~~
wyldfire
They do disclose the potential conflict in the article and FWIW it's a pretty
negative review of Amazon's business.

------
kilo_bravo_3
>Hermès’s $640 Clic H Bracelet is one of those luxury baubles that’s
financially out of reach for most shoppers. So how is it that Amazon shoppers
could recently search for the Hermès piece by name and find a bracelet for
just $24.99 on the e-commerce giant’s website?

I think this is why I've never received anything fake from Amazon.

I'm not stupid enough to think I can get something priced at $640 for $25.

>Still, Philip Thomas recently bought a counterfeit Novel Duffle bag from
Herschel Supply Co., which generally retails for $85. The New York-based tech
executive didn’t care much about color as he browsed, so he scrolled through
the various options to pick a black version available for $45.10, even though
it meant waiting three weeks for delivery.

I also am not stupid enough to think that I can get something priced at $85
for $45 and I know that three weeks means a "China ePacket" full of shit.

Even the people who complain about getting fake SD cards must know that a
256GB "not eligible for prime", 2-3 week delivery time, SD card that only cost
them $9.99 has got to be a scam, right?

Right?!??

I must either be using Amazon wrong or have some magical superpower that
causes me to be able to comprehend what is going on around me.

~~~
rasz
This is one side of the equation, the other is people ordering the real thing,
repackaging it with fake from aliexpress and returning for full refund. More
enterprising folks sign up as Amazon supplier, register for some expensive
products, ship real thing once or twice and then start throwing more and more
fakes into their shipments, all nicely co-mingled by Amazon.

~~~
DownGoat
Was it not also a thing that if you let Amazon keep your stock as a supplier,
customer might get another suppliers item as they were kept together? So if I
ordered a book from Amazon from AmazingVendor, Amazon might actually send me
an item from ScummyVendor's stock which sold the same book.

~~~
ss64
That only happens when one or more of the 3rd party sellers are part of the
"Fullfillment by Amazon" program (FBA). If I was a lawmaker I would make FBA
illegal, it is an open door for untraceable counterfeits. I think its the
primary reason we are seeing major brands like Nike and Birkenstock walking
away from Amazon.

~~~
nkrisc
Or just hold Amazon accountable for the products they ship and sell through
their website. As a consumer I don't care about the logistics of fulfillment;
I went to Amazon.com and paid money to Amazon.com, ergo I bought it from
Amazon.com and they should be accountable.

Then let Amazon sort it out with their suppliers if they're receiving
counterfeit goods from them. If Walmart was receiving counterfeit goods from
supplier for their stores, they would probably cut ties with those suppliers.

This problem exists because Amazon is not being held accountable for what they
sell to consumers.

