

Unlocked iPhone 4 up for sale - steventruong
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC603LL/A?mco=MjI4NTM2NTM

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uptown
"Unlocked iPhones: Why Apple Won't Do It"

By Lance Ulanoff

Editor in Chief of PCMag.com and Senior Vice President of Content for the Ziff
Davis, Inc.

<http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386860,00.asp>

June 13, 2011

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tel
I suppose he was right. They didn't release them on wednesday.

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fmx
When I read the title my initial thought was that "unlocked" was the official
term for "jailbroken". It sounded too good to be true and, sure enough, it
was.

The fact that the phone is not locked to any one network doesn't seem like
such a big deal to me. I believe most telcos in Australia will unlock your
phone for you for a fee.

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mattdeboard
It's a very different deal in the US.

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jedbrown
Depends on the carrier. It took five minutes on the phone with T-mobile to
unlock my Vibrant.

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smallegan
At WWDC they had a lunchtime session that talked about the fact that they are
sending an iPhone into space on the last shuttle launch and the CEO of the
company doing this went to the Apple Store to buy the flight articles. He told
them he wanted iPhones without contract and they said they had to ask him if
it was going "overseas" of course he couldn't tell them how it was going to go
"over and over over and over... seas" :-)

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captaincrunch
Whats the big deal here? I bought an unlocked iPhone4 in Toronto, Canada 6
month ago at the apple store?

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sbalea
It's new for the US. Canada had them for a while.

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yan
Anyone know what the penalty for breaking contract under AT&T is? Sounds like
it's less than $400.

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w1ntermute
$325 right now, IIRC.

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gte910h
It depends on the number of months since you signed up. It goes down quite
significantly.

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nantes
If I recall correctly, mine was $120 for ~6 months.

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mikhuang
Is AT&T happy to assist you in unlocking the phone for usage with other
carriers?

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nanoanderson
I'd be curious about the answer to this one as well. After my O2-UK contract
was up, they were as happy as a clam to unlock my phone. All I had to do was
plug into iTunes and it just said "iPhone now unlocked" and I wept with joy.

I'm skeptical in the case of ATT though.

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Steko
I can see 2 possible reasons for this:

(1) it's more profitable for Apple to sell phones in the US and have them
greymarketed to China then to increase the direct supply to China.

(2) Apple wants to (eventually) expand the iPad data only plan available to
phones and this is a first step towards that. And if they did this I would
jump on it in a second.

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jcampbell1
iPhones are widely available in China now. There is a 20% tax, but it is
hardly worth smuggling phones to cheat the luxury items tax.

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Steko
There's also the repatriating of foreign money.

There's also the craze associated with shortages.

Just an idea.

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martingordon
I wonder what this means for the release schedule of the next iPhone. Why even
bother releasing this so soon when the next iPhone is supposedly on a few
months away? It's possible that it's an attempt to clear out stock, but I
can't imagine there's that much pent up demand in the U.S. for an unlocked
iPhone to warrant this now.

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steventruong
Where are you getting the idea that the next iPhone is coming out soon? Base
on rumors? By definition, normally the iPhone would have been out now if it
was following the old pattern. Rumors have speculated Fall as well as early
2012. It's all speculation at this point.

I think the strategy has more to do with increasing reach and sales and maybe
possibly due to the fact that they're potentially working on a dual GSM and
CDMA compatible phone and may want to sell direct vs through a partner. Could
be part of a larger plan (of course this is all my speculation as well).

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albedoa
>Where are you getting the idea that the next iPhone is coming out soon? Base
on rumors? [...] It's all speculation at this point.

The speculation is the idea. By definition. Some people play it "safe" and
apply probabilities of either 1 or 0 depending on whether something has been
officially announced or not, respectively.

Others are less binary, opting instead to base their speculation on available
information and past trends. martingordon seems to be from this school,
rejecting the idea that something simply cannot exist before its announcement.

He probably speculated correctly about the release date of the Verizon iPhone
in the US weeks before it was officially announced because the amount and
depth of available information made it incorrect to speculate any other way.
The binary folks waited until they heard it from someone official.

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jemeshsu
The governments in many other countries actually have laws that prohibit the
practice of locked phones by telcos. Anyone can enlighten why the US
government is not taking such approach as it is definitely pro consumers. Is
such laws perceived by US as bad for the free market, entrepreneurship and
competitiveness?

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evgen
If your phone is not locked then you paid retail for the phone. In the US
there has been a long history of the carriers subsidizing phones (e.g. loaning
you money to pay for the phone) and keeping the phone locked to that carrier
for the duration of the initial contract. This kept phone prices lower and was
previously not a major issue for most users since there were really only a
couple of options available to them that were all approximately the same price
(e.g. choose between GSM or CDMA and then choose one of two major players in
each group.)

Laws preventing carrier locks are not perceived as bad, but Americans liked
their phones to appear inexpensive and since we had far fewer real options
when it came to the carrier it was not a major inconvenience.

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steventruong
I don't think this is necessarily 100% accurate as to why it's locked. After
all, you were still tied to a contract with a cancellation fee.

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jemeshsu
Agreed. In Hong Kong & Singapore, phones are subsidized by telcos also. You
are locked into telco's contract, and not by phone's hardware.

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bni
Anyone know if this can be used on 3G networks in Europe? I mean for high
speed data, not just speech or EDGE.

Im asking since 3G is on different frequencies in US and Europe. My US version
Palm Pre for example cant connect to European 3G networks for data use, only
speech is possible.

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guptaneil
The iPhone is a global GSM phone, so it should work with 3G networks in Europe
as well, since it is the same hardware that is sold on European carriers.

Was your Palm Pre purchased on T-Mobile's network? T-Mobile phones use lower
frequencies for 3G that make them incompatible for 3G data with pretty much
any other carrier.

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jedbrown
T-mobile uses different frequencies for 3G, but some of their phones (e.g.
Vibrant) also have 3G in Europe.

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csomar
Why is it much more expensive (by around $200) in other countries?

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JackWebbHeller
Firstly, it originates from the US, so I suspect they can make savings like
that.

Secondly, US stores typically don't include Sales Tax or VAT in their listed
prices. So I'm sure you'll pay 10-15% more on top of the price that's stated.

I'm from the UK where we pay an extortionate 20% on everything - however,
every labelled price always includes this, which does help judge prices far
better!

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jonknee
Sales tax depends on the location. It variess from nothing in states like
Oregon to over 8% in some areas. It's about 7% where I am. Online puchases
from companies without a presence in your state do not charge sales tax, so if
Amazon starts selling these that would be a good way to get one without paying
tax.

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steventruong
9.25% to 9.75% in NorCal

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ComputerGuru
I predicted this a few months back when news about the upcoming AT&T/T-Mobile
merger first leaked. I'm guessing that they've already settled (tentatively)
on the price they'll be charging, and at this point with no other (real) GSM
competitors in the States, there's no real reason to keep Apple from selling
an unlocked version in the States.

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rkudeshi
Does this mean you can now buy an officially unlocked iPhone, take it to AT&T,
and activate it WITHOUT a data plan?

(Better yet, can I do the same with a secondhand iPhone purchased from
Craigslist that's already filled its 2-year quota?)

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technomancy
Better yet: does iOS have a SIP client yet? Using a data plan without voice
would be a lot more useful. (Been doing this for years on Android.)

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afterburner
There have been SIP clients for the iOS for a while now. Been using one for a
year. I recommend Siphon, which is available on Cydia, but there are several
in the Apple Store too.

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danenania
How good is the carrier participation internationally? I'm relocating to
Buenos Aires in a couple weeks. Anyone have an idea how difficult it might be
to get connected with this when I arrive?

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porteno
It's trivial. You can buy a SIM outside Retiro for like AR$5, or in a proper
store for maybe AR$10. Might take a little more finagling to find a micro SIM,
as most phones are still on the old SIM standard.

Here's what will kill you: getting data. Under what circumstances are you
relocating to Bs As? If you are official, like you will get a DNI and
everything, great, otherwise, this is the problem area. Most prepago plans in
Bs As price data at piratical rates, like...a AR$20 card may include say 5MB
data (on Claro). You open Google Maps and there goes your data allowance. I
haven't found a provider with a decent deal on prepaid data.

There is, of course, normal postpaid accounts with more reasonable data
allowances and pricing, but you can't get a postpaid account without a DNI,
usually. Occasionally, you hear about someone wandering into a Personal or
Movistar store and the clerk giving them a plan and saying its no problem, but
that's rare.

Alternatively, if you're company or something is sending you there, you can
see if they can get a phone plan taken out in the name of someone else at the
company, with the company guaranteeing the payments. Because getting the DNI
takes forever anyway.

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danenania
Thanks for the great info! I'll be doing remote contracting, so no company
connections. I'm going for a change of scenery, the experience, lower cost of
living, etc. After reading about what they put people through for this DNI
(first I've heard of it), I'll probably pass on the whole thing and accept my
inconvenient status. Sounds like my best bet for data is making friends with
someone who will sign up for me, eh? Now there's some motivation to be
sociable... :)

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CrazedGeek
Presumably, this still won't work on T-Mobile USA's 3G bands. Sigh.

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stcredzero
I've had a Canadian phone for awhile. 2G works great for me, with a mobile 4G
hotspot when I need faster network.

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whatusername
$649

Or you can buy it in Australia for $859AUD. I guess that includes GST so
that's about $780.90 AUD + 10% GST. Which is about $830USD + GST.

:(

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babebridou
Try France & Germany: €629 all included, that's $910 USD.

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whatusername
:) $859AUD is actually $920 USD at the moment. The Aussie Dollar is crazy
high.

Still much lower than Brazil though.

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chopsueyar
How many years did this take?

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jcampbell1
Can anyone suggest a discount carrier that this phone will work with? My
understanding is Tmobile uses a different frequency, and all of the discount
carriers use T-Mobile or Sprint's networks (Boost, Virgin, etc.) Are there any
discount carriers leasing the AT&T network?

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aikinai
I also use an iPhone on T-mobile. As jrmg said, you'll only get Edge since the
3G frequencies are different, but the speed is fine for most use. I also
highly recommend T-mobile overall. Let's just hope something stops AT&T's
buyout.

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steventruong
As someone who has used the iPhone on both, not having certain features
enabled as a result were annoying as well. Such as visual voicemail (as one
example). Sure you can live with it but its still an annoyance.

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emeltzer
if you bought one without a contract, will you be able to legally unlock it?

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enneff
It depends on your provider.

If you got one in Australia under contract from Telstra they will unlock it
for you for free. Handy for frequent travellers.

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Kudos
US store only?

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DrJokepu
It's been available in the UK store since day one and that's probably true for
most other countries. The US was exceptional in the sense that you couldn't
directly buy an unlocked iPhone from Apple.

UK Store:
[http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iph...](http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone)

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officemonkey
No doubt it was part of their deal with AT&T. U.S. telcoms (especially AT&T)
are big bullies. Apple needed to play ball when they were first getting
started.

Now of course, they don't need AT&T, so they're dropping all the restrictions
as soon as they're legally able to.

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rmc
_No doubt it was part of their deal with AT &T_

Possibly. Another factor is that in some countries mobile phone networks are
legally required to unlock phones after a certain date.

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officemonkey
That doesn't explain why in the UK and France you were able to buy an unlocked
phone pretty much from the get-go.

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hackermom
Finally.

