
From file-sharing to prison: A Megaupload programmer tells his story - nols
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/06/from-file-sharing-to-prison-a-megaupload-programmer-tells-his-story/
======
nulagrithom
> I had to be made an example of as a warning to all IT people who were
> intending to work in similar companies.

That's scary. I'm supposed to police my employers actions? To some extent I
can understand, but that puts a lot of IT people in awkward positions. Do
Dropbox employees need to worry that infringing content is being taken down
fast enough, lest the face prosecution?

I didn't follow Megaupload too closely, so I hope I'm blowing this out of
proportion...

~~~
cm3
> Do Dropbox employees need to worry that infringing content is being taken
> down fast enough, lest the face prosecution?

Not as long a Dropbox doesn't offend the wrong people.

~~~
TobbenTM
Not as long Condoleezza Rice is on the board.

~~~
letitleak
If saying an employee acted without authorization and/or tampering with the
papertrail will save a few million in fines then you better hope no one like
that is on your board. But your stock options will be safe.. though you
probably wont be entitled to them.

------
jondubois
So basically employers/entrepreneurs get all the rewards if their companies
succeed but if they fail, it's the employees who take the fall.

And then, when things do work out, these 'entrepreneurs' are the ones who
boast about how they overcame adversity in the face of impossible odds.

Now I understand why Donald Trump is so popular in the US. People just lost
all faith in the system; so they might as well get some entertainment out of
it.

~~~
chris11
I wouldn't exactly say that the system has let Kim off at all. Sure, he hasn't
spent any serious time in jail, but it's just because the U.S. hasn't been
able to get him extradited. In fact they've pursued him so aggressively that
it's helped his fight against extradition.

~~~
jerguismi
And the other employees and Kim probably didn't come voluntarily to US. The US
government would be happy to have Kim thrown to prison as well, but they
haven't been able to catch him.

"Like Dotcom, Nõmm next spent a significant amount of time fighting
extradition. But eventually in 2015, he voluntarily traveled to the US and was
arrested in Virginia."

------
cm3
Some of the coders from Lovoo (dating site/app) may be next. They created fake
bots for male customers which the german IT magazine c't reported on last year
based on a set of Outlook mailbox dumps they were handed. Now the police
raided Lovoo HQ.

[https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/razzia-grossaufgebot-
polizei-s...](https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/razzia-grossaufgebot-polizei-
stuermt-firmenzentrale-von-lovoo-69557)

[http://www.heise.de/forum/c-t/Kommentare-zu-c-t-
Artikeln/Int...](http://www.heise.de/forum/c-t/Kommentare-zu-c-t-
Artikeln/Interne-Mails-bekraeftigen-Abzock-Verdacht-gegen-Dating-Plattform-
Lovoo/The-LOVOO-SCAM-BEWARE/posting-24557526/show/)

[http://onlinedatingsoundbarrier.blogspot.de/2016/06/fraud-
wi...](http://onlinedatingsoundbarrier.blogspot.de/2016/06/fraud-with-fake-
profiles-police-raid-on.html)

What's the thought process behind documenting the illegal activities in email
threads? It makes you wonder if they honestly thought they were just
developing test bots for QA purposes.

~~~
petercooper
What's the actual law/potential charge behind the Lovoo situation? Creating
fake users to make a Web site popular is hardly new:
[http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-reddit-got-huge-tons-
of...](http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-reddit-got-huge-tons-of-fake-
accounts--2) .. In the UK, at least, I believe what Lovoo appears to have done
would be treated as false advertising which generally results in fines for the
company, but not jail time for employees (at least, in my limited experience
reading about such cases).

~~~
cm3
IANAL, but tricking paid users to believe they're in contact with real humans,
with whom they have the hope of getting into some relationship, is on another
level.

------
eel
I do not understand how the US can charge someone with copyright infringement
if that person is not a US citizen and has never been to the US. Is there an
international agreement on how to handle infringement? Can Americans be
extradited for infringing upon copyrights from other countries?

~~~
waynecochran
I assume if you are involved in stealing property from folks in the US (I
assume many of the owners of the stolen material are American companies), the
US has the right to extradite you. Seems reasonable to me.

~~~
DanBC
Sure. Is that reciprocal? Would the US extradite a US citizen from the US to
eg France to face prosecution for copyright infringement?

~~~
brokenmachine
Haha, thanks for the good laugh!

------
coldcode
Clearly our prison system in the US is terrible. Of course most other
countries are even worse but you'd think we would be more civilized. It's also
embarrassing that the only person they were able to put in jail was a simple
programmer.

~~~
ArkyBeagle
I don't know if it's available any more but there was a series on The History
Channel ( from back when it had, y'know, history on it ) called "The Big
House" with Paul Sorvino narrating that covers how this came to be.

I realized a massive high school being built in my (then) home town had an
architecture based on prison design. Not only were prisons a political
innovation, but they had a lot to do with how architecture developed.

~~~
lostlogin
Have you more info on this? That is a pretty amazing observation. Did you
mention it to anyone?

~~~
ArkyBeagle
I did now :)

------
ocdtrekkie
It's a little sad specifically his own government didn't provide him much
help. Numerous other issues with the US aside, I've always been reasonably
confident that if I'm out of the country, the American embassy will help me.

And going after the IT staff is pretty awful. Generally speaking, we're just
there to make it work. While I make a point to work jobs and clients I think
do good work and are moral entities, the reality is, IT doesn't generally
decide what a company does or what messes they get themselves involved with.

~~~
lisivka
See case of John Demjanjuk[1] . USA citizen was extradited twice: to Israel
and to Germany as "nazi". After his death, FBI confirmed that they know that
he is innocent.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk)

~~~
Xylakant
> After his death, FBI confirmed that they know that he is innocent.

Nitpick: The FBI confirmed that according to their opinion one piece of
evidence was a fake.

~~~
lisivka
Major evidence is fake. Do you know any other evidences?

Throughout three decades of US hearings, an extradition, a death sentence
followed by acquittal in Israel, a deportation and now a trial in Munich, the
arguments have relied heavily on the photo ID from an SS training camp that
indicates Demjanjuk was sent to Sobibor.

Claims that the card and other evidence against Demjanjuk are Soviet forgeries
have repeatedly been made by Demjanjuk's defense attorneys. However, the FBI
report provides the first known confirmation that American investigators had
similar doubts.

[http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4056137,00.html](http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4056137,00.html)

------
Steeeve
I have heard about the "Diesel Tour" before. It's a little disturbing.

------
hrbrtglm
So this guy was jailed because he coded an advertising platform and a video
hosting service. I know Mega was on a thin shady line, but what has he done
wrong to be jailed in USA ?

~~~
FilterSweep
The UK has a law called "Joint Criminal Enterprise" which is oft critiqued[0].
In America, this same concept is a de-facto legal and social standard to apply
"Guilty by Association" wherever it can.

So, in the USA, it can be (incorrectly) argued - by very, _very_ high powered
RIAA legal team - that this was aiding and abetting.[1] It's absolutely wrong,
but this is the legal world we live in as developers.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_purpose)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiding_and_abetting)

~~~
hrbrtglm
All right, in fact, I think the law you explained is even fair and needed to
prosecute some "Joint Criminal Enterprise". But in this specific case, how
could it be "incorrectly" argued, "absolutely wrong" and not dismissed by a
judge. I mean, how can you trust the justice if only the poor chap is the one
going to jail. Yeah, I'm naive, I know.

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gcb0
why not a interview with fbi or the DA? the "reporter" dont even mention if
they were reached for comment.

yeah the little guy was screwed. we got that from the tittle.

~~~
jontas
This was an interview telling one person's side of the story, and it was
presented that way I am all in favor of fair, honest and balanced reporting,
but in this case I don't think anything was done incorrectly. This was not a
"straight facts" piece, it was a subjective interview and clearly labeled as
such.

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anc84
I was hoping this would have some more detail about the actual allegations
against him and his testimony and verdict.

------
aaronchall
> I don’t believe the US will help Estonia in any war. They also promised to
> help Ukraine, but did they really?

No. No we have not, and it is to our shame.

------
moyok
As someone working on a side project that allows people to upload data
publically (think something like codepen), what can I do to stay away from
trouble like this?

------
superobserver
"All Kim ever cared about was how to promote himself on Twitter."

In sum, he's a total scumbag. I thought he was a cool guy, but now I think
otherwise.

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ensiferum
Crazy how the FBI has become the biatch of the american copyright mafia even
to a degree of tromping and violating people's rights in other continents. GO
USA!

What exactly was the claim against this software eng? By this article it
almost sounds like the FBI (guided by the copyright mafia) fabricated a case
against some defenseless software dev just to gain more leverage on dotcom.

~~~
jsprogrammer
Remember when GS got the FBI to arrest and prosecute a programmer who did
nothing wrong? The arresting agents couldn't even articulate why they were
arresting the programmer.

------
k__
So this guy is in prison, but Dotcom is free?!

~~~
webkike
They're both free now.

