
Training exercise boosts brain power, Johns Hopkins researchers say - theSpaceOctopus
https://hub.jhu.edu/2017/10/17/brain-training-exercise/
======
pdog
Do you know the best exercise for your brain? Actual exercise. Running
increases neurogenesis[1] more than anything else.

[1]: [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/well/move/for-your-
brains...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/well/move/for-your-brains-sake-
keep-moving.html)

~~~
taeric
Amusingly, I would not be surprised to find some people need both. In
particular, exercise is boring. Very very boring. Anything that can help with
concentration during boring tasks is useful.

Obviously, that is my experience. Ymmv

~~~
harbie
This was how I felt about lifting weights. I know about all of it's amazing
health benefits, but you've got 3-5 minutes rest between sets, with most
programs having you do at least 9 sets total. That's not even counting the
time added on if someone else asks to work in sets with you. Plus the need for
a spotter when benching.

Point is, I ended up getting into bouldering. If you want to send a bouldering
problem, you have to spend a while actually planning out your movements,
because if you waste time trying to figure out your next move in the middle of
all but the easiest problems, you'll run out of energy before completing the
problem. Like lifting, you need rest time between climbs, but you can spend
that time planning out your next attempt. Only downside is that indoor
bouldering walls tend to be crowded most of the time, and outdoor bouldering
can require a bit of a drive depending on where you live.

Still, I find it a lot more stimulating than lifting; I actually look forward
to bouldering, while lifting still felt like a chore even after 8 months of
doing it.

edit: I should add that I've only been bouldering regularly for about 2
months, and mostly at an indoor gym.

~~~
pm90
On the contrary, lifting weights has been one of the most fruitful additions
to my life. I started around 5 years ago and it visibly changed my body in a
year; something which I've wanted for a long time. Every time, its a thrill to
be able to lift more weights, to complete the reps and know that I'm stronger
than I was a month ago.

I'm guessing what bothers you the most is the idea of doing the same thing
over and over again, which is a fair criticism. Generally I listen to a
podcast. In the beginning, I used to go with a friend so it didn't become too
boring.

~~~
mandeepj
> idea of doing the same thing over and over again

You can change your exercises every 2-3 months otherwise your muscle will hit
a saturation point or start facing fatigue due to same type of work out

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JamesBarney
When the first studies by Jaeggie on IQ came out a few years ago I hit dual n
back pretty hard trying to improve my IQ. I don't think I got any smarter, but
I did notice a few things.

Pros

My attention got better, I was less easily distracted.

My executive function was better, I made better choices in life.(less junk
food, fewer beers)

My thoughts slipped less often, I had those "what was I just talking about"
moments less and less frequently.

Cons

Sometimes I felt overly focused for social situations. Like the feeling you
get when you've been studying for 4 hours, and then try to the shoot the shit
with someone, and you end up being too rigid/serious and instead of
playful/fun.

~~~
vtail
James - that's pretty interesting. Could you please share what SW (or other
tools) did you use to train for dual-n-back?

~~~
JamesBarney
I used [http://www.soakyourhead.com/](http://www.soakyourhead.com/) and this
one which is linked elsewhere in the thread.
[https://sourceforge.net/projects/brainworkshop/files/brainwo...](https://sourceforge.net/projects/brainworkshop/files/brainworkshop/)

I doubt the subtle differences between different dual-n-back matter.

------
z0r
paging gwern!

* for context, he's got a lot on his site about n-back:

[https://www.gwern.net/DNB-FAQ](https://www.gwern.net/DNB-FAQ)

[https://www.gwern.net/DNB-meta-analysis](https://www.gwern.net/DNB-meta-
analysis)

------
Bartweiss
This is interesting, and kind of odd.

The article claims the failure of previous brain-training studies came from
choosing the wrong techniques, but the evidence on dual n-back specifically
has been conflicted for quite a while; this isn't the first study on it.

What's interesting here is that a lot of the best results on dual n-back in
the past have concluded that it's mostly promising to fight cognitive decline
or boost recovery. Previous work on boosting memory in young, mentally-healthy
people has come up with basically nothing.

I'm hoping that this is the better and more-powerful study, and that n-back
does boost general working memory. But the cynic in me is wondering if the
chosen working-memory metric was simply more vulnerable to training effects
from n-back than from complex span.

[https://www.gwern.net/DNB-meta-analysis](https://www.gwern.net/DNB-meta-
analysis)

~~~
arkades
My understanding of the literature is largely that n-back training doesn’t
generalize effectively, mostly just improving ones ability to perform n-back
exercises.

~~~
Bartweiss
Mine also. This article implied they _did_ see generalization, at least to
other working memory tests - but I can't find the full text to check what they
used.

~~~
arkades
The only paper I’ve seen so far with any generalization used timing feedback
to incentivize closer attention. Generalized Outcomes were believed to be due
to improved executive function/attentiveness, not memory, which is what the
time pressure aimed for.

------
gorpomon
This is actually a really common improv warm up. The group that's about to
perform circles up, and one person says a word to someone else in the circle.
That second person then passes the word to someone else, and so on.
Eventually, after around 50 words, someone spontaneously passes what was said
to them back and you start trying to go back down. The benefits are many,
everyone practices focusing, listening and trusting their teammates. It can
also be funny, as near the bottom opinions on what the true order is can vary
quite a bit.

~~~
Kiro
I don't understand. Isn't it just the same word you started off with?
Actually, I probably misunderstand since it sounds like the whisper game but
with public passings which obviously would make no sense.

~~~
mohn
I haven't played this game myself, but from the description I suspect that
"passes the word to someone else" should have been "comes up with and passes a
different word to someone else". You end up with a stack of words where no two
adjacent words are the same. Players might also try to avoid adding non-
adjacent duplicate words to the stack.

Eventually, someone decides it's time to start popping backward through the
stack. They respond with the same word that they were just passed and the
group tries to remember the right words to continue popping back down the
stack, one person and word at a time. This gets harder "near the bottom" of
the stack because it's been longer since those words were spoken.

~~~
dhimes
But this way you would only hear one word- the one that was passed to you.
Unless it went through several rounds, in which case everybody would have
their own stack.

~~~
mohn
Ah, I should not have stuck with the original post's use of the word "pass". I
was envisioning each word being announced publicly, and the speaker
designating the next person with eye contact or pointing or something.

In this way, everyone does have their own stack and if their hearing and
memory are perfect, everyone has the same stack contents. In practice, memory
corruption causes the players' stacks to disagree more at the bottom as time
goes on, but agree reasonably well toward the top. If a word is misheard, some
players might even disagree about the current value at the top of the stack.

Since they used the word "pass" maybe the OP does mean it's private, in which
case it's a pretty different game than what I'm guessing at here. In my
version, during the second half of the game, the current speaker could
designate any player to be the next to pop and announce their top of the
stack.

If the passing of words is private, then players need to remember who they
interacted with at various points in the first half so they can try to form
those same pairings again in reverse. And I guess the signal for the mid-game
reversal point would require whispering the word they just got, back into the
ear of the same player who just gave it to them.

Edit: Ohhh, I neglected the fact that they "circle up" in the OP. That solves
the problem of getting the pairings right. You know exactly who you interacted
with if you're all in the same spots in the circle and only interact with your
neighbors. Okay, the word passing must be private. Which makes sense if you're
hanging out behind the curtain at a theater and you need to be quiet. I wonder
if the game that I've imagined would be any good.

------
garuuk
I don't know where the articles source is but this linked study says there are
no improved affects with with dual n back training.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4820261/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4820261/)

This meta analysis says there's a small affect

[https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13423-014-0699-x](https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/s13423-014-0699-x)

------
flavio81
When I see these exercises, I think it would be more fun to just play the
drums to boost my brain. Here's an article collating studies on rhythm playing
and brain effects:

[https://www.google.com.pe/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/89363...](https://www.google.com.pe/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/89363/science-
shows-how-drummers-brains-are-actually-different-from-everybody-elses)

(i do play drums, synth, and guitar.)

~~~
jasonkostempski
I don't think the same parts of the brain are used. I can play Simon pretty
well but the short examples given in the video were mentally taxing for me.
With drumming, in what situation would you need to remember the nth last drum
you hit and what would the second variable be? And who's gonna tell you if you
got it right or wrong?

~~~
flavio81
> _With drumming_

Drumming, in a band context, is all about remembering certain drum patters,
combinating them mentally so they fit the music as well as possible, and then
playing them with perfect timing...

... all of this in real time, and as an endless while(song is not over) loop!!

> _And who 's gonna tell you if you got it right or wrong?_

You don't want to make the bassist, the singer, the guitar player, and the
keyboard player all get angry at you at the same time for making the group
sound bad!

------
heyheyhey
Anyone have tricks to boost their memory?

Lately, I've felt my memory has been a little off. I feel like I'm not
remembering things I would normally easily remember.

Like the other day, I was trying to remember what they speak in Iran (Farsi)
or who the head coach of the Boston Celtics or what was the name of the
Scorsese movie with Wahlberg/Damon/Nicholson. These are all subjects I'm very
familiar with so it bothered me that I couldn't remember the answers
immediately.

~~~
troupe
Make sure you are getting enough sleep and at least some exercise.

------
briandw
I'll make a shameless plug for my side project, IQ boost. The first Dual
N-Back iPhone app. I launched it about 2 weeks after the app store opened.

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iq-
boost/id286574399?mt=8](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iq-
boost/id286574399?mt=8)

------
baxtr
Cool. Does anybody know an app where I can exercise like in the video?

~~~
nkozyra
Found this, but I'm sure any N-back will work:

[http://brainscale.net/dual-n-back](http://brainscale.net/dual-n-back)

Also, if you feel like working off of someone else's source:

[https://sourceforge.net/projects/brainworkshop/files/brainwo...](https://sourceforge.net/projects/brainworkshop/files/brainworkshop/)

Though it seems relatively simple to design.

------
defined
I may have missed seeing a mention of the work done by Dr. Michael
Merzenich[1], professor emeritus at UCSF and an expert on neuroplasticity, who
has been showing for many years that mental (and physical) exercises can and
do remap parts of the brain to our benefit.

His 2004 TED Talk[2] on neuroplasticity is IMHO well worth watching.

[1]:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Merzenich](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Merzenich)

[2]:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_merzenich_on_the_elastic_b...](https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_merzenich_on_the_elastic_brain?language=en)

------
racer-v
The training exercise is Dual N-Back
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back#Dual_n-
back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-back#Dual_n-back)

------
Vernetit
I think that the changes of n-back comes with a 30 day training 20 - 30
minutes a day. I create a Melody position n-back Link:
[http://competicionmental.appspot.com/router?page=melodynback...](http://competicionmental.appspot.com/router?page=melodynback3)

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wodenokoto
Did subjects improve their dual-n-back scores significantly during the
exercise regiment? Did they improve on other memory tests? Did they improve in
learning tasks?

I get that they got increased brain activity in areas associated with learning
and memory, but I'd like to see subjects also improve when directly tested.

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thatonechad
Is there any online game for this like shown in the video?

~~~
vixen99
[http://brainscale.net/dual-n-back](http://brainscale.net/dual-n-back)

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excalibur
The first few paragraphs of this article read exactly like spam email. It gets
better as it goes, but I still wouldn't trust any links in it.

------
jonbarker
Wasn't the issue with n-back previously that the Jaeggi study was not
replicable?

------
AlmightyGrant
Did you know that reading on the internet trains your brain to be smarter??
This article is trash.

~~~
djohnston
that's not what the research (or the article) was saying.

