
White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods - aaronbrethorst
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/15/17467864/china-tariff-trade-war-trump-white-house
======
rsynnott
> It includes a broad range of components used in electronics manufacturing,
> specifically naming touchscreens, batteries, and electric motors. General
> components like transistors are also named on the list as well as more
> specific components used in televisions, cameras, and radio receivers. [..]
> Notably, the list does not include cellphones or completed televisions.

So, this will, er, serve to discourage companies from making consumer goods in
the US, with buying consumer goods from China becoming relatively more
attractive? Doesn't seem very well thought out.

~~~
everybodyknows
Another reading is that the thought going in to the tariffs was not directed
toward helping Americans, but rather creating headlines big enough to crowd
out reporting on the various scandals of the administration.

Ever seen "Wag The Dog?"

~~~
Perceval
Trump has been talking about the need for tariffs and industrial policy since
the 1980s. This is not some scheme he's cooked up on the spur of the moment.

~~~
noir_lord
When it comes to Trump (as a non-American) the old saying "Never attribute to
malice what can be explained by stupidity" breaks down.

With him and the people he surrounds himself with, inept would be an
improvement.

He managed to piss off the Canadians ffs, Thats the diplomatic equivalent to
punching a friendly puppy.

Also is anyone during or after Trump ever going to trust anything with a US
signature on again... I can't see it.

~~~
cfadvan
There’s an extension to Hanlon’s Razor that too many forget:

“Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity, but don’t
dismiss malice.”

------
luma
I guess my earlier comment was too long, so let me provide a shorter version:
this action actively harms anyone attempting to design, prototype, and
manufacture electronic devices in the US. There isn't a single component in
the projects I'm currently working on which isn't impacted by this. My cost of
goods just went up by 25% across the board today in an effort to help
"protect" American businesses.

I don't feel like I've been protected by this.

The full list:
[https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig...](https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf)

Earlier comment (now hidden) with a list pertinent to hardware developers:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320653](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320653)

~~~
YesThatTom2
NO!! Don't you understand??

Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be
created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to
benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China.

And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids
who are now living in a barren wasteland.

The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to see fail.

By the way... this strategy will work as long as the entire rest of the world
doesn't figure it out, keep their tariffs low, and have the supply chain move
to them instead. So PLEASE don't let anyone in the EU, Africa, South America,
Canada, Central America, or Indonesia see this comment! We only have to keep
this secret for another 49.9 years!

P.S. I'm not joking. That's is the strategy he's following.

~~~
atomi
But isn't the reason these products are made in China because it's inherently
both more efficient and cost-effective?

You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive
way to avoid relying on other countries?

And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway?

~~~
frgtpsswrdlame
>You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive
way to avoid relying on other countries?

In this case yes. This is competition between nation-states we're talking
about, viewing the entire relationship through the narrow lens of economic
efficiency is missing the forest for one specific tree.

~~~
ravitation
And viewing "this" through the extremely more narrow 19th century lens of
competition between nation states completely ignores the entirety of 20th
century economic and geopolitical thinking.

~~~
civilitty
There's no need to bring mercantilism into "this". If you go to France, for
example, most people there buy nicer clothes but less often than consumers do
in the US so there is a large industry of artisans whose jobs don't depend on
the global competitive landscape. Unlike in the US, these artisans make
products that almost everyone has access to instead of catering to the
rich/super rich. It's not a question of efficiency but desire to support local
industries with livable wages - an efficiency of regional wealth distribution
if you will. In this sense, France is competing for the money that the
industry generates with other nation states but it's not a zero-sum game where
France's gain is China's loss.

Unfortunately, American consumers are unwilling to pay the higher prices such
a culture requires so instead economic nationalists try to push the
mercantilist bullshit in the name of protecting domestic industries and
national security.

~~~
ravitation
This is a very confusing comment.

------
kayfox
So, to encourage manufacturers in the US to build more stuff in the US, they
will increase tariffs on components so that it will cost even more to build
something in the US than to build it in China.

Good plan, hello Canada!

~~~
Washuu
I am in the middle of starting a business around a product that will get
slammed by this. I was going to import the components and have the boards
built here.("Made in the USA" labels are huge for my target market.)

Assuming I am parsing all of this correctly it will end up being better for me
to have the PCBs assembled into the products in China and not create jobs in
the USA.

~~~
rgbrenner
You can't use the "Made in the USA" label like that anyway. It must be all or
virtually all made in the USA. At best you could label it "Made in USA from
Imported Parts" or "Assembled in USA."

[https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-
center/guidance/com...](https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-
center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard)

~~~
Washuu
My intention was that the casing and PCBs would be made in the USA. The only
China sourced parts would be the PCB components.(Not finalized/assembled
PCBs.) As far as I know that would qualify for "Made in the USA".

~~~
lozenge
By that reasoning a frozen meal could say "made in the USA" meaning the
cardboard box was made in the USA.

~~~
Washuu
* Case (Plastic) - USA Origin

* PCB (Milled, Drilled, Components Soldered) - USA Origin

* Connectors - USA Origin

* Firmware - USA Origin

* PCB Components (Items affected by the tariffs) - China or Otherwise

As far as I know that would qualify as "Made in the USA" or at the minimum
"Assembled in the USA". Over 75% of the components have USA origins and the
final transformative step is done in the USA.

Please note that I am not trying to be deceptive in my future product's
labeling.(6+ months until launch.) However, with political changes like these
tariffs they are something that can basically change my stance on how I decide
to source in the USA.

~~~
gxs
I think he said that at best you could say "Assembled in the USA", don't think
he was arguing that piece of it.

------
paloaltokid
A family member who's been an electrical engineer for many decades made an
interesting observation: the United States industrialized China. When labor
got too expensive in the US, manufacturing moved overseas. Capital became
available in China to build and build and build because they knew that
American business wouldn't be able to resist the competitive pricing.

I still remember overhearing my engineer family member on the phone with an
American supplier 15 years ago and the supplier saying "all my factories are
in China - the last competitive place left!"

~~~
watertom
It's even worse. In order to do business U.S. companies had to partner with a
Chinese company, and U.S. compnay willingly transfered their IP to their
Chinese partner, their Chinese partner then transferred that IP to their
partner. the Chinese Government, who then transferred the IP to any other
Chinese company that could benefit from the IP.

That's how the U.S. supercharged China'a manufacturing while simultaneously
destroying the USA's manufacturing. Also the U.S. companies never got the
access to the Chinese market they sold their souls to get.

~~~
adamiscool8
And now the same people responsible are extremely upset that someone's trying
to reverse the damage.

------
canjobear
For the anti-protectionists: Can you direct me to extensive empirical evidence
that protectionist policies are harmful in the medium to long term?

I often hear that Asian countries have followed protectionist policies for
decades, and they seem to be doing well. Norway is also highly protectionist
at least with regard to agriculture and as far as I know they have achieved
their desired results. When does it work and when does it not work?

~~~
schmichael
Wikipedia is always a good place to start:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism#Impact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism#Impact)

Edit: It's also worth mentioning that it is unlikely these tariffs are meant
to last in the medium-to-long term. This is a trade war so knowing what's a
long term strategy vs a short term tactical maneuver is intentionally
obfuscated in order to maximize leverage against the opponent.

Each side is just trying to rack up bargaining chips before sitting down and
coming up with comprehensive trade agreements.

Or... that's how things could work. You can never know anymore.

~~~
Buetol
This wikipedia article is a lot more biased than the french version. Here,
it’s clearly anti-protectionism by defending the age-old myth of "comparative
advantage".

~~~
aoeusnth1
Wait, I didn't realize the basic principal of comparative advantage was in
doubt. I'm a bit confused by your worldview - do you think that every person
should produce exactly what only they need and never trade with others? What
is the purpose of trade between individuals or groups?

~~~
Buetol
Except if the others countries are flooding yours with cheap goods to destroy
your industry and economy.

Like I've said, the french version put at least some criticism on this
neoclassical point-of-view of the perfect market:
[https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avantage_comparatif#Objections...](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avantage_comparatif#Objections_au_principe_de_l%E2%80%99avantage_comparatif)

------
stusmall
I used to do a lot more embedded systems work. I've been 100% software lately
and, looking at this list, I'm glad I started on that transition. I don't know
what the exact BOM impact would have been on past projects, but it would have
been rough.

I can't get over this Don Quixote-esque crusade. This just hurts American
competitiveness.

~~~
Spooky23
That is Putin’s point. That’s why there is a lot of investment in influence of
the awful sources of information used by the President.

Hopefully, when this guy is gone we look at reigning in the power of POTUS,
which is clearly too strong now.

~~~
stusmall
We'll see. The reason why the president has this power is congress also abused
it. The ideal countermeasure for this is an educated electorate who doesn't
fall for the false promises of trade barriers. As long as people buy into the
lie of protectionism, there will be someone selling it.

------
natvert
This is insane. The ppl it is going to hurt the most are the tinkerers and
innovators. As long as you assemble your completed phone / tv in China it
doesn't matter. But for hackers trying to build cool stuff or develop ideas
into products, they have to pay 125% more...

~~~
overcast
25% more, 125% total.

~~~
natvert
sure... price * 1.25 :) still... crazy.

~~~
Jyaif
You said "125% _more_ ", which is incorrect.

If you had said "125% of the price", then that would have been correct.

~~~
natvert
yes, i don't disagree. this is all beside the point though -- the tariffs will
have the opposite of the desired effect though: pushing more assembly to China
and making it harder for innovators in the US.

~~~
dqpb
It's important to be accurate.

------
hugh4life
[https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-
office/fact-s...](https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-
sheets/2018/june/section-301-product-list-fact-sheet)

"The 284 product lines being proposed will now undergo further review in a
public notice and comment process, including a hearing. After completion of
this process, USTR will issue a final determination on the products that would
be subject to the additional duties.

USTR will provide an opportunity for the public to request exclusion of a
particular product from the additional 25 percent duty. USTR will publish the
details of this product exclusion process in a subsequent Federal Register
notice."

------
tfolbrecht
Try to understand it strategically.

If there's a 25% tariff on Chinese components, it makes Japanese, Taiwanese,
Korean, developing-economy players more competitive. If the tariff is
projected to last it will cause a sizable diffusion toward other players.
Consider also that tech goods growth is projected to continue and China wants
to start fabbing silicon. China doesn't want the brakes pumped on that
exponential curve.

------
fallingfrog
I'm by no means a trump supporter, but let's play devil's advocate here.
Suppose that China's leadership had a long term plan to build up their
manufacturing base while wrecking ours. So they set up a monetary policy to
keep their own wages suppressed and their goods cheap and they heavily
subsidize the industries that they want to establish. American corporations go
along with this since in the short term it allows them to bust their unions
and reduce labor costs. And it's still US companies that own many of the
Chinese factories, so from the CEO's point of view they haven't lost anything.
Then years later when the job is done and the industries in question have been
captured, the Chinese government kindly informs the us companies that they no
long own the plants, they have been nationalized. How else could the us
respond other than by its own protectionist policies?

------
vtange
A lot of argument against tariffs seems to assume that prices in the US will
rise and stay increased permanently assuming production stays in China.

Wouldn't the downsides of tariffs actually only remain until production moves
to say, Vietnam, etc.?

~~~
hangonhn
No. It's not that easy to move. Factories don't work in isolation. One of the
major advantages of China is that all the suppliers are located very close to
each other so you can get very fast turn arounds. Some people have the
mistaken notion that it's only because of cheaper labor, which is only partly
true. But in the area where a lot of the manufacturing is happening, Shenzhen,
labor cost isn't that cheap because the cost of living has skyrocketed.

This is an old but really insightful article on why manufacturing happens in
China: [https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-
an...](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-
squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=1&ref=charlesduhigg&pagewanted=all)

It's similar to why tech startups largely start in or move to Silicon Valley.
It's the ecosystem of VC, pool of talent (Stanford, Berkeley, the other UCs,
and tech companies), and existing large tech companies.

This all can change but not overnight.

Wendover Productions did a nice video on manufacturing in Shenzhen:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Jfrzkmzyc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Jfrzkmzyc)
(Highly relevant to the big picture and issues around the tariffs)

~~~
dv_dt
This is similar to the the original dynamic that allowed Silicon Valley to be
Silicon Valley and produce ICs, then computers, home computers and game
consoles, etc.

------
mrobot
Can anyone speculate as to how this changes the landscape with respect to
Foxconn and their new electronics manufacturing presence in the United States?
They do manufacture a lot of technology. What might be different after the
tariff vs before for this new United States presence? Will it work just like
other United States corporations or is it different because it is
international with a Chinese presence?

------
mcbits
Does this apply to small quantities imported for personal use?

~~~
kayfox
Yes.

~~~
mcbits
Where can I verify this? As I understand it, we already have a bunch of
tariffs in the 5% range that only apply to commercial/industrial imports.

------
yohann305
Is there a list of which American companies directly benefit from this?

~~~
noobermin
Trump's ego.

------
joncrane
What's more likely:

\- other countries ramp up their cheap, robust manufacturing capacity to
compete with China \- design and prototyping moves to other high knowledge
worker, high innovation countries without a 25% import tariff on Chinese tech
goods

~~~
et2o
Now items will be completely assembled in China before they are imported. This
will just shift even more production to China.

------
jessaustin
If we assume that this sort of thing is of short-term detriment and long-term
benefit, isn't _now_ the best possible time for it? Admitted unemployment is
lower than it has been in a long time and admitted inflation is still quite
low. Complaining about protectionism now and calling for it when the economy
is in the crapper would be reminiscent of the _Arkansas Traveler_...

Of course we don't have to make those two assumptions, but they're built into
common arguments for protectionism.

------
growlist
Surely this will just encourage closer ties between those outside the tariff
area?

------
oliwarner
The idea is to get the US making their own stuff. If you can tip the scales to
the point it's cheaper to make it locally, somebody will...

... Eventually. That takes a lot of time, and raises prices across the board
leading to inflation and unemployment. It's a very risky roll that could
easily backfire in the most spectacular way.

------
azurezyq
Not sure how long this can last. But factories need time to be built. If the
tariff got repealed in less than a year, it's just net negative for US economy
and nothing will be really changed.

I think generally trade war makes sense as a short time lever for something
else, but may be a bad idea for long term growth .

~~~
nerfhammer
lol you would need 800% tariffs for it to be worth it to build US factories to
make these things

------
forkLding
Wonder how Apple is taking this

EDIT: Interesting, didn't know Apple manufacturing policies until now.

~~~
mreome
Apple doesn't assemble their devices domestily. This tariff does not include
complete phones. I'm sure they are perfectly fine with these tarrifs, they are
a barrier for potential competitors who don't already have established supply
and assembly facilities in China/Tiwaian.

~~~
rsynnott
They assemble Mac Pros in the US. They've also apparently been considering
assembling some other stuff in the US; I assume those plans have come to a
screeching halt.

~~~
mreome
Thanks for the clarification. As you say though, this will likely stop further
domestic assembly operations from being established. It will be business as
usual for the big players who do assembly in China, the rest will be
encouraged to move them back there. In no way does this seem like it could
have the intended effect.

~~~
brodie
Could this policy actually be the result of Chinese politicians and/or
businesspeople engaging in pay-for-play with Trump?

Or is there another explanation for why this policy doesn’t affect certain
completed products from China? I just don’t get that part of it at all.

------
jeffdavis
Question:

What effect does domestic tax policy have on international trade, and is it a
bigger or smaller factor than tariffs?

For instance, if you have very high taxes on things required for production
(e.g. wages, etc.) and low taxes on consumption (e.g. sales tax, etc.) then it
seems to make sense to try to produce elsewhere and import even if there is no
comparative advantage and you have to pay a tariff. Does that explain the U.S.
trade deficit at all?

------
triviatise
The strategy he is following is hitting them hard and making them come to the
table to actually negotiate.

The chinese have abused us for quite a long time.

------
Fjolsvith
So what happens with the tariff when it is collected? Does it go to subsidize
the industries hit adversely by this?

------
randyrand
This is the thing I was least looking forward to with trump. So disappointing.

~~~
kadenshep
I thought the normalization of Nazi principles while debasing the U.S.
government was pretty bad. But electronics costing more does really suck.

------
Aloha
I guess its harder to make a rationale that a tariff on TV's is for national
security - that said, you need to return the assembly work, before you can
return the component lines.

------
jaimex2
Can someone explain the motive behind something like this?

------
089723645897236
If your company relied on some sort of margin related to commodity electronic
components: congratulations you were doomed anyway, this just hastens it.
Let's face it, hardware is not where the money is. Hardware is a tool of
software now and forever. If you can't figure out how to make the money with
software to pay for the hardware then forget it! I hear Amazon is hiring
again.

------
thewileyone
Just wait until China imposes tariffs to services from US headquartered
companies.

------
ggg9990
A Chinese tariff would have been great policy 40 years ago. Now it is just
stupid.

------
noonespecial
Sure does smack of tossing ol' Briar Rabbit into the briar patch. "Punishing"
them by making their finished goods a ton more competitive by kneecapping our
own industry? Wha?!

Forget Russia, should we maybe be looking into what _China_ may have done to
get this guy elected?

~~~
chrisjc
> Forget Russia, should we maybe be looking into what China may have done to
> get this guy elected?

You don't think they could be related?

------
anon23423532
It's punishment for stealing hundreds of billions of dollars of IP, illegally
subsidizing businesses to steal market share, and general national security by
not outsourcing knowledge and infrastructure critical to national security to
save a few bucks.

It's easy to let someone push you back inch by inch instead of fighting back,
but eventually you're on the edge of a cliff and have nowhere else to go.

I'd take short term pain over one day waking up and realizing that China has
total control over manufacturing for everything essential for modern life and
in exchange we got cheap consumer goods for a few years.

~~~
EpicEng
I don't know why you're being downvoted; China absolutely does all of those
things. They are not playing fair in the global market and never have. One can
debate whether or not the tariff is the right approach, but let's not pretend
that China is a victim.

~~~
pjc50
Whereas the US has always played fair in the global market and never used its
dollar position, tarriffs, sanction, invasions etc for market advantage?

~~~
merpnderp
You're comparing apples and oranges. When has the US government stolen trade
secrets from foreign companies and then bootstrapped new domestic companies to
compete against them?

China has surely done all the things you're accusing the US of, but they
aren't being punished for that.

~~~
pjc50
[http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/airbus-germany-nsa-
spyi...](http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/30/news/airbus-germany-nsa-
spying/index.html)

(I'm not sure anything has been proven definitively in the open, but I'm not
sure that applies to all these China allegations either)

~~~
merpnderp
So you would have had a problem with the EU retaliating if they’d felt they
had enough proof for a case?

------
NeonVice
I wish that congress would stop delegating authority to the executive.

~~~
craftyguy
I wish countries would sanction Trump's companies.

~~~
ceejayoz
Canada appears to be considering it.
[http://thehill.com/policy/international/392281-canadian-
fore...](http://thehill.com/policy/international/392281-canadian-foreign-
minister-wont-rule-out-sanctions-targeting-trump)

~~~
sdhgaiojfsa
FWIW this is exactly why Presidents are supposed to divest themselves of
business interests. It is a very bad thing that foreign powers have the
ability to apply leverage specifically to his private interests. He's suppose
to act in the interests of Americans, but if he were to exempt Canada after
they threaten to sanction the Trump organization, that would be the very
definition of a conflict of interest.

~~~
craftyguy
Exactly. And this would be an excellent test just to see how much he has
actually 'divested'.

------
keo93ndn
You’re considered a consumer of the things this targets

Their real concern is protecting the supply side folks. Basically themselves

You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent
30 years shutting them all down

Because no one in this admin has a damn clue

Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos
because of this

The ignorant are shooting themselves in the foot as the ignorant do

~~~
kinsomo
> You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just
> spent 30 years shutting them all down

> Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos
> because of this

If you wanted to reverse the trend of all the American suppliers getting shut
down, and re-build the American manufacturing base, what actions would you
take to accomplish that?

~~~
s73v3r_
What's with this "rebuild the American manufacturing base" part? The US is
already one of the top manufacturers in the world.

~~~
sheepmullet
Then why are people in this thread so convinced they can't compete with China
on components even with 25% tariffs?

~~~
orf
Likely due to the reasons they have outlined numerous time in their comments.

------
luma
As a basement hacker selling goods on Tindie this tariff schedule covers
nearly every tool, consumable, and component parts I use in everything I do.
My cost of business just went up by 25% today across the board.

The full schedule:
[https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig...](https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf)

Example items of interest to people designing electronic goods in the US:

\------------------------------------------------

8532.10.00 Fixed electrical capacitors designed for use in 50/60 Hz circuits
and having a reactive power handling capacity of not less than 0.5 kvar

8532.21.00 Tantalum fixed capacitors

8532.22.00 Aluminum electrolytic fixed capacitors

8532.23.00 Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, single layer

8532.24.00 Ceramic dielectric fixed capacitors, multilayer

8532.25.00 Dielectric fixed capacitors of paper or plastics

8532.29.00 Fixed electrical capacitors, nesoi

8532.30.00 Variable or adjustable (pre-set) electrical capacitors

8532.90.00 Parts of electrical capacitors, fixed, variable or adjustable (pre-
set)

8533.10.00 Electrical fixed carbon resistors, composition or film types

8533.21.00 Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type
carbon resistors, for a power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W

8533.29.00 Electrical fixed resistors, other than composition or film type
carbon resistors, for a power handling capacity exceeding 20 W

8533.31.00 Electrical wirewound variable resistors, including rheostats and
potentiometers, for a power handling capacity not exceeding 20 W

8533.40.40 Metal oxide resistors

8533.40.80 Electrical variable resistors, other than wirewound, including
rheostats and potentiometers

8533.90.80 Other parts of electrical resistors, including rheostats and
potentiometers, nesoi

8535.10.00 Fuses, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V

8535.21.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage of less than 72.5 kV, but
exceeding 1,000 V

8535.29.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage of 72.5 kV or more

8535.30.00 Isolating switches and make-and-break switches, for a voltage
exceeding 1,000 V

8535.90.40 Electrical motor starters and electrical motor overload protector,
for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V

8535.90.80 Electrical apparatus nesoi for switching, protecting, or making
connections for electrical circuits, for a voltage exceeding 1,000 V, nesoi

8536.10.00 Fuses, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V

8536.20.00 Automatic circuit breakers, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V

8536.30.40 Electrical motor overload protectors, for a voltage not exceeding
1,000 V, nesoi

8536.41.00 Relays for switching, protecting or making connections to or in
electrical circuits, for a voltage not exceeding 60 V

8536.49.00 Relays for switching, protecting or making connections to or in
electrical circuits, for a voltage exceeding 60 but not exceeding 1,000 V

8536.50.40 Electrical motor starters (which are switches), for a voltage not
exceeding 1,000 V

8536.50.90 Switches nesoi, for switching or making connections to or in
electrical circuits, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V

8536.69.40 Connectors: coaxial, cylindrical multicontact, rack and panel,
printed circuit, ribbon or flat cable, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V

8536.90.40 Electrical terminals, electrical splicers and electrical couplings,
wafer probers, for a voltage not exceeding 1,000 V

8541.21.00 Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a
dissipation rating of less than 1 W

8541.29.00 Transistors, other than photosensitive transistors, with a
dissipation rating of 1 W or more

8541.30.00 Thyristors, diacs and triacs, other than photosensitive devices

8541.40.20 Light-emitting diodes (LED's)

8541.40.70 Photosensitive transistors

8541.40.80 Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesoi, optical coupled
isolators

8541.40.95 Photosensitive semiconductor devices nesoi, other

8541.50.00 Semiconductor devices other than photosensitive semiconductor
devices, nesoi

8541.60.00 Mounted piezoelectric crystals

8541.90.00 Parts of diodes, transistors, similar semiconductor devices,
photosensitive semiconductor devices, LED's and mounted piezoelectric crystals

8543.20.00 Electrical signal generators

8543.70.60 Electrical machines and apparatus nesoi, designed for connection to
telegraphic or telephonic apparatus, instruments or networks

8543.70.80 Microwave amplifiers

8543.70.95 Touch screens without display capabilities for incorporation in
apparatus having a display

8543.90.65 Printed circuit assemblies of flat panel displays other than for
reception apparatus for television of heading 8528

8543.90.68 Printed circuit assemblies of electrical machines and apparatus,
having individual functions, nesoi

8544.11.00 Insulated (including enameled or anodized) winding wire, of copper

8544.19.00 Insulated (including enameled or anodized) winding wire, other than
of copper

8544.30.00 Insulated ignition wiring sets and other wiring sets of a kind used
in vehicles, aircraft or ships

8544.49.30 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, of copper, for a voltage not
exceeding 1,000V, not fitted with connectors

8544.49.90 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, not of copper, for a voltage
not exceeding 1,000V, not fitted with connectors

8544.60.20 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, for a voltage exceeding 1,000
V, fitted with connectors

8544.60.40 Insulated electric conductors nesoi, of copper, for a voltage
exceeding 1,000 V, not fitted with connectors

8544.70.00 Optical fiber cables made up of individually sheathed fibers

9011.10.40 Stereoscopic microscopes, provided with a means for photographing
the image

9011.10.80 Stereoscopic microscopes, other than those provided with a means
for photographing the image

9013.20.00 Lasers, other than laser diodes

9013.80.70 Liquid crystal and other optical flat panel displays other than for
articles of heading 8528, nesoi

9014.10.70 Electrical direction finding compasses

9026.10.20 Electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking the
flow or level of liquids

9026.20.40 Electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking the
pressure of liquids or gases

9026.80.20 Electrical instruments and apparatus for measuring or checking
variables of liquids or gases, nesoi

9026.90.20 Parts and accessories of electrical instruments and apparatus for
measuring or checking variables of liquids or gases

9030.20.05 Oscilloscopes and oscillographs, specially designed for
telecommunications

9030.33.34 Resistance measuring instruments

9030.33.38 Other instruments and apparatus, nesoi, for measuring or checking
electrical voltage, current, resistance or power, without a recording device

9030.39.01 Instruments and apparatus, nesoi, for measuring or checking
electrical voltage, current, resistance or power, with a recording device

9030.40.00 Instruments and apparatus specially designed for telecommunications

9030.90.68 Printed circuit assemblies, NESOI

9031.90.54 Parts & accessories of measuring & checking optical instruments &
appliances of subheading 9031.41 or 9031.49.70

9031.90.59 Parts & accessories of measuring & checking optical instruments &
appliances, other than test benches or profile projectors, nesoi

9031.90.91 Parts and accessories of measuring or checking instruments,
appliances and machines, nesoi

9032.10.00 Automatic thermostats

9032.89.20 Automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, designed for use
in a 6, 12, or 24 V system

9032.89.40 Automatic voltage and voltage-current regulators, not designed for
use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system

9032.89.60 Automatic regulating or controlling instruments and apparatus,
nesoi

9032.90.21 Parts and accessories of automatic voltage and voltage-current
regulators designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system, nesoi

9032.90.41 Parts and accessories of automatic voltage and voltage-current
regulators, not designed for use in a 6, 12, or 24 V system, nesoi

9032.90.61 Parts and accessories for automatic regulating or controlling
instruments and apparatus, nesoi

9033.00.20 LEDs for backlighting of LCDs

9033.00.30 Touch screens without display capabilities for incorporation in
apparatus having a display

~~~
WhiteDawn
This is the true story here. How does putting tariffs on parts that
hackers/innovators use to prototype new products help the American people? If
you don't have enough funding, and a large enough customer base to get your
electronics manufactured offshore, you get hurt by the tariffs.

I feel like China may welcome this with open arms, bolster their own
manufacturing by cutting out DIY'ers.

~~~
hiram112
> How does putting tariffs on parts that hackers/innovators

Who said tariffs were supposed to help hackers / innovators? It is to protect
manufacturers.

------
will_brown
Since my prior comment was downvoted into obscurity, I’ll jump on yours and
reiterate my point and ask...

What do you manufacture? Would you be interested in a startup that offered you
a waiver of these tariffs?

My prior point was you will start seeing start ups pop up left and right
offering “tariff free imports/importing for US manufacturers as a service”.
Somehow that is controversial enough to be downvoted without a reply I’m not
sure why.

~~~
kec
How on earth could a startup provide that service legally?

~~~
jerkstate
by manufacturing in the US, perhaps

~~~
odorousrex
How does that dodge the tariffs? (Legally)

Let's say I'm Apple. I make MacPro's in Ft. Worth, Texas. The parts come from
China.

I now have to pay 25% more on those parts.

However, since I'm Apple, I have manufactures making iPhones in China.

So rationally, my best bet is to shut down my US based plant in Texas and move
MacPro manufacturing to one of my factories in China.

That way I legally dodge the tariffs since the finished MacPros are NOT taxed.

While this is good for China, and a net zero for Apple, it kind of sucks for
the poor American workers in Texas who are now out of a job.

~~~
will_brown
Say you are Apple...

You create a Foreign Trade Zone, ship your components there and manufacture
there...you don’t pay tariffs on those Chinese components.

Now the idea with political cronies/tech start ups that can raise SV funding,
they will create one and turn around and offer manufacturers the opportunity
to use the zone for their manufacturing (a la the Uber of Foreign Trade
Zone/Free Trade Zone)

Edit: Just checked, and as one might expect Apple already operates out of
Foreign Trade Zones

~~~
odorousrex
That is actually rather clever, and will probably work for many smaller US
manufacturers but it will still cause them to have to raise their prices
slightly, as there is now another middle man they have to pay.

However enterprises like Apple will still find it cheaper to move to China.

VC may be reluctant to invest in such startups due to the fact that the
current administration has been, how shall we put it...inconsistent? They are
just as likely to revoke the tariffs in a month as they are to change the
goods covered under it or expand it. Either change could make such a startup
completely obsolete in no time at all.

------
R_haterade
Surprisingly, I'm okay with this.

------
csense
Americans have been told that globalization was the key to prosperity. And
yes, today we have wondrous cheap smartphones and all manner of goods made
overseas.

But if you ever visit the Rust Belt, you'll quickly realize that entire local
and regional economies have been shattered by the decline of US manufacturing
and haven't yet recovered.

Donald Trump won the election in part by recognizing and promising to address
this economic problem. This move is an attempt to do exactly that: Fix things
by reversing the free trade policies that got us into this mess.

Almost everyone here seems united in saying that this attempt by Trump to cure
our economic problems will only make the situation worse.

If you were the PoTuS, you want to help the Rust Belt become economically
viable again, and you have both houses of Congress and the American people
behind you, what would you do?

Bashing Trump's solution is all well and good, but what's the alternative? Do
nothing and let the American heartland's economy rot for another 30 years?

~~~
krapp
>If you were the PoTuS, you want to help the Rust Belt, and you have both
houses of Congress and the American people behind you, what would you do?

I wouldn't lie and tell people we can force the world to give a damn about
American cars like it was the 1950s all over again, because the world has
moved on from that economy, and thanks to automation, even if we brought the
factories back, there would be few if any jobs for human beings. We can't look
back, we have to look forward, and prepare for the actual future. The coal
mines aren't going to open, the days of lifetime employment at the steel mill
or auto plant, two cars in every garage and a chicken in every pot are dead.

Beyond that, I don't know. It's a complex problem, but failing to recognize
complexity, as the President seems to, doesn't actually make it simpler.

------
sheeshkebab
Great list - industrial, mechanical, electronic equipment and finished
products - they frankly should have put 100% tariffs on that or require
manufacturing in US.

------
oneshot908
On the bright side, at least MAGA hats are made domestically...

[https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-made-in-
america_u...](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-made-in-
america_us_596f9be6e4b01696c6a24918)

------
delbel
Here is the list
[https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig...](https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/List%201.pdf)

Tractors, fork lifts, agricultural equipment

Lathes

Milling Machines

LED's

Lithium batteries

Touch screen

Not a lot of electrical "tech" goods besides these three above, maybe PCB and
GPS equipment.

About the tractors, milling machines, and lathe. I like this, because the new
products that are available ... are chinese crap. But they are so cheaply
made, and impossible to fix. Every small farmer knows you want an old one, and
rebuilt. They built the Massey Ferguson 35 , which came out I think in 1955,
made up until 2002 a great small 44hp tractor. You want a new small tractor,
it'll come from India or China and it'll break down fast with electrical
issues. Maybe not a Japanese one, however. I was asking my mechanic why we
don't just start building the old ones here, they said they just can't
compete. It would be great if we started making them here again. The same goes
for Lathe and Milling machine, if you want a good one, you need to find "old
iron" and rebuild it (if it needs it). It doesn't appear that CNC parts are on
this list, so you can still buy cheap chinese CNC parts to upgrade it.

The other stuff on the list, coincidentally, I am very interested in.
Basically I am getting into hemp products and wanted to, at a hobbist level,
build some of these machines for personal use. Now I want to investigate if
there is a market for american made agricultural machines for hemp.

I don't see a lot of "tech" on this list, might be overblown. These are things
we need to make here, make them right, and of high quality.

~~~
luma
Did you not read the list, or are you unfamiliar with electronic components?
Every single component commonly found in consumer electronics is covered in
that document. That includes the individual components (passives, actives,
everything), the circuit boards, the wires, the power supplies, the
connectors, displays, switches, fuses, sensors... everything.

~~~
delbel
that stuff is not on the list. I re-read it three times. Can you point out the
cut and paste? PCB, cases, and LED for displays and touch screens,yes I did
see. I guess next time you go to harbor frieght for a $900,000 industrial PCB
it'll be 25% more. Better use the 20% off coupon

~~~
delbel
the stuff isn't on the list. downvote this doesn't put it on there.

~~~
detaro
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320653](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17320653)
already made a list of a bunch of interesting ones. It might not literally
cover "everything", but it's a lot of common parts.

~~~
delbel
I was hoping for a list like this, but again it isn't specific to what he
said. Reason is, I wanted to do an emergency last minute order on Aliexpress
if it was. I was sincerely worried that it was true. But the reaction is
totally overblown. That and I already have a large inventory of touch screen
displays, and LEDs -- the only things that were on the list. So I am not
worried.

~~~
luma
It is specific to what I said, and the link goes to my post.

~~~
delbel
Thanks you are correct

