

Tesla Reports a Profit (Sorta) While Elon Musk Regrets Mentioning Hyperloop - rwfilice
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/08/tesla-2nd-quarter-2013/

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revelation
How is this backtracking? Nothing has changed. He made it very clear from the
beginning that this is an idea of his that he wants to release to the public,
not work on it himself.

Somebody then had the audacity to pester him with Hyperloop on the earnings
call for Tesla. It's like asking the president about his veggie garden while
hes giving a press conference on the war on (whistleblowers|drugs|terror).

~~~
noamsml
That's not a fair assertion. Hyperloop has the potential to change the world
far more than tesla and spaceX

~~~
toomuchtodo
Electrification of mobility & GOING TO MARS > Tube transportation

~~~
teeja
Apart from science, which robots can do however slowly, I see little value in
"Going to Mars" \- even if we were prepared, which we're not.

No air, no water, no plants or animals, no fuel, plenty of radiation (on the
trip and while there) and dust and _extreme_ cold. Other than _very_ expensive
chest-beating (for which the Moon is a closer dead body), reason suggests that
continued support of robotic exploration will pay off better for science.

 _In the meantime_ we can invent new technologies which will greatly ease the
burdens and dangers - once we have invented actual goals to make of such
journeys worth the enormous investment.

Long-distance tube transport seems more than a little pipe-dreamish. Regional
OTOH seems inevitable.

------
ajiang
"I'm sorry. I'm too busy revolutionizing the automotive and space travel
industries."

~~~
mparr4
Musk has unquestionably changed the space transportation industry. It remains
to be seen whether he's "revolutionized" the automotive industry.

With self driving cars on the horizon, it certainly feels like a revolution is
looming, but Tesla doesn't seem to me to be nearly as singular of a force of
change as SpaceX is to it's respective industry.

~~~
mtgx
Self-driving may be a bigger revolution in the end, but getting everyone off
oil is also a huge revolution on its own. Yes, I know they're not the only
ones to have an electric car ever, but without Tesla everyone would be
dragging their feet with this.

Heck, they are _still_ doing that. Just look at BMW i3. BMW is still treating
electric cars as some sort of "concept cars" for the mass market, rather than
"real cars" for the mass market.

We could also say touchscreen smartphones would've inevitably arrived, too,
since we already had PDA's with crappy resistive touchscreens, and LG Prada
even launched before the iPhone in 2007. But how much slower would they have
improved to reach they level they are now, if it wasn't for Apple? And how
much worse would they be now?

~~~
mparr4
I'm not quite sure if the _Tesla is to electric cars as Apple is to
smartphones_ analogy works just yet.

Perhaps it will, but I live in the US and have still never even seen a Tesla
vehicle. I've seen Nissan Leafs and Chevrolet Volts. My town even has charging
stations.

Maybe that's how things will shake out, but I don't think they're there yet.

~~~
nrb
FWIW they are all over the place in Chicago, and presumably the other major
metros.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I work for a major broadcast network in Chicago. Our owner owns both a Model S
and Roadster.

I too see Model S vehicles _everywhere_ in Chicago.

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salimmadjd
If you're interested in undrestanding ZEV credits and its impact on Tesla's
bottom line ($5000/car) read bellow [1]

Also, worth noting other automakers are slowly catching up. Remember Tesla had
a big start with their roadster, but expect fierce competition from Japanese
and European automakers. Which is all good for consumers.

1 : [http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/08/tesla-subsidy-
vanishing...](http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/08/tesla-subsidy-vanishing-
amid-electric-vehicle-boom/)

~~~
toomuchtodo
Tesla owns key energy management system patents.

Disclaimer: I'm super-long TSLA.

~~~
taway2012
Patents can often be worked around. Almost all "real" patents can be worked
around (BS "business method" patents are not "real" patents by my definition).

I also think Tesla has a bright future. But I hope they're relying on their
brand value rather than transient advantages like patents. If I hear from Musk
that he thinks their patents are going to be competitive advantage, I will be
factor that (negatively) in my opinion of the company's prospects.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Legal standing > Opinion

Patents can and should be used when they were legitimately obtained through
costly R&D.

Value based on brand value? Bullshit. Value based on innovation? Solid.

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loceng
Title should remove backtracking. I don't think he ever said he'd build the
hyperloop himself - though I don't personally trust anyone other than him to
build it out successfully.

~~~
JshWright
Yeah, the word 'backtrack' doesn't appear anywhere in the linked article, and
is clearly editorializing in the title.

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gregpilling
Interesting production numbers. The model S is now outselling the Chevrolet
Corvette,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_(redirect)#P...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_\(redirect\)#Production)

~~~
tptacek
That's not too surprising; the Corvette's sales figures have plummeted in the
last 10 years or so. That milestone is a little like outselling the PT
Cruiser.

~~~
yid
An even easier task now: [http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2010/07/end-
of-the-r...](http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2010/07/end-of-the-road-
chrysler-builds-last-pt-cruiser/index.htm)

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nchuhoai
Commentors point out that Elon is not really backtracking, though I would
still be curious what he means by shooting himself in the foot. The article
says he regrets mentioning the Hyperloop. So despite his intentions to open up
his designs, there must be some downsides he is considering, whether
outstanding personal profit or otherwise.

~~~
jack-r-abbit
Maybe the downside is that now everyone is watching him, waiting for the next
update, speculating, criticizing, etc. Shooting himself in the foot may have
been just talking about it prematurely.

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Expeck
There is interesting article about hyperloop desing, based on Musk's hints:
[http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/how-elon-musk-can-build-
the...](http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/how-elon-musk-can-build-the-
hyperloop-in-10-days-for-a-tenth-the-cost-of-high-speed-rail)

~~~
kbenson
I just read that yesterday.

I think it's sad that Musk doesn't have (public) plans to actually work on the
hyperloop. As many here have said in the past, him being behind the project is
what moves it from fantasy to actually having a shot in a lot of people's
minds.

It's probably smart of him to not start it himself though, as it's risky, and
a failed venture of that sort could bleed uncertainty into the minds of
investors when regarding his other ventures.

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amalag
Link-bait title. Is interesting the Musk said on twitter that a particular
design was "the closest he had seen", but didn't say it hit the bullseye.

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Fuxy
It's more like he's trying to sell a car while publishing plans for a high
speed people mover. You can just hope it won't displace the electric car in
the inner city until Tesla become really profitable but you never know. It's a
risky move that could potentially affect Tesla later on.

~~~
Retric
From what has been said a Hyperloop is closer to vary high speed rail than
inner city transport so if anything it complements the electric car. AKA who
cares about range limitations if you never bother to drive 500+ miles for a
trip.

Assuming boarding time was 30 min and your going 500MPH a 500mile hyperloop
trip would take 1.5 hours vs 7+ by car. And presumably drop you closer to mass
transit / the center of the city than an aircraft.

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mathattack
I like that he is willing to open source it. A patent would be the surest way
to be sure that it dies.

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TeMPOraL
There's a hangout with Elon Musk and Sir Richard Branson going on now; the
host asked Elon about Hyperloop, and he spent nice 5 minutes avoiding to
answer it :(. He only confirmed that it's a tube (but not evacuated), with
little friction, and that you'll have to go a little bit faster than sound. He
also said that details will be posted on-line.

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InclinedPlane
Specifically: he realizes he has no time to work on it no matter how promising
it is.

~~~
stcredzero
That's not exactly "backtracking." Also, there's something strained about the
structure of the article, like they were trying really hard to put as much
negative spin in before they had to say "Tesla is doing well." They could have
out and said: Tesla's doing well, but GAAP...etc, and left out 3 paragraphs.

~~~
revelation
They make it seem as if Tesla is doing shady accounting, but they explain in
the very beginning of the shareholder letter:

 _In this letter and going forward, we will report our results on a GAAP basis
as well as on a non-GAAP basis, excluding lease accounting. We believe these
non-GAAP financials are useful as they align with the underlying cash flow
activity and timing of vehicle deliveries, and because we use such information
internally for operational management and financial planning purposes._

~~~
benjamincburns
Further, reporting non-GAAP figures alongside GAAP is fairly common practice.
In some cases I view it as an increase in the honesty of the reporting.
They're adding information here, reporting things they don't otherwise need
to.

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totalforge
The hyperloop will never work due to a non-engineering problem known as the
NIMBY. The California species is particularly nasty.

~~~
bluthru
Time savings + environmental savings = I think it'll have an easier time than
a new highway.

