
Ask HN: My iOS app got pirated, what to do now? Raging? Nothing? Partying? - sippndipp
Hi today I've discovered that my iPad app watchlater (checkout the website here: http://watchlaterapp.com/ - basically it's InstaPaper for Video) got pirated: http://goo.gl/xM05Q<p>What to do now? Raging? Nothing? Partying? Is it an accolade? Would you contact the filehoster to take it down? Can I technically detect within the app that I'm running on a jailbroken device?
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stanmancan
You can't stop people from pirating your app. Not to mention, I'm sure most of
us have pirated something, at some point, as well. I'd personally let them
keep the files up. As it's been said, another user is another user. He'll show
it to his friends who might buy it instead of pirating.

Another option to help fight people pirating would be to offer a free version.
Maybe limit how many things they can add to their list, and have it ad
supported. The full version you pay for and gets unlimited items in their
list.

If you _do_ find a way to detect someone using a pirated version, instead of
disabling the application, why not do something fun like create a "pirate
theme" that gets applied so they know they've been busted. (The only drawback
is if the pirate theme is awesome you might get people pirating it just to see
what it looks like).

There's no sense in fighting pirating, it's never worked. As far as I know, no
industry has had any real success stopping it. I say embrace it and try to use
it to your advantage.

~~~
mborromeo
That's ok if you application is "standalone", but what happens when your app
needs some backend webservice to properly run?

We pay for servers, we can't pirate them. I read articles from developers
telling that most of their users are pirates. How could we use this situation
to our advantage?

~~~
bradleyland
You have a couple options there:

* Require simple registration and validate against app purchasers

* Make the app free and charge for premium features that work with the web-based back end

If something is priced reasonably and provides good value, users will pay for
it. iOS buyer statistics are a great case study.

------
prestia
I think one of my favorite approaches is reaching out to the individuals
pirating the software. Post a comment on the page explaining that you are the
developer of the program. Explain why you made the application and that, if
people download and enjoy it, you would appreciate them supporting future
development by purchasing the application through the AppStore.

You really can't stop people from pirating your application, but you might be
able to convert a few would-be pirates just by reaching out to them with your
story. It's easy to steal a piece of software from a nameless entity, but it's
much harder when there is a human element involved.

Going into "legal mode" rarely solves these problems because it just puts
people on the defensive (and this is coming from a lawyer).

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runjake
I would say "party". It's one more user to add to your user base. One more
user who (if your app doesn't suck) will end up showing it to someone who
doesn't want to bother with the immense fuss of pirating and will just
purchase it.

~~~
sippndipp
Hehe... yes that's what I'm thinking too.

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wccrawford
Celebrate! People like your app enough to pirate it.

Because the alternative was that they wouldn't like it enough. There is no
'wanted it but didn't pirate it' option for bored, unethical hackers.

~~~
wccrawford
Oh, and you might be able to tell if the device is jailbroken, but that has no
relation on whether the person paid for your app or not. Don't confuse that.

~~~
sippndipp
What do you think? Should we try to track that in the backend?

~~~
wccrawford
Tracking data that isn't useful for serving your customers is a bad idea.
Heck, even most of it that -is- useful can make the customer upset.

------
someone13
If you want, you can try sending a DMCA notice to the file hosts to try and
get the software taken down.

Here's the page for FileSonic: <http://www.filesonic.com/report-abuse>

Wupload: <http://www.wupload.com/dmca>

BitShare: <http://www.bitshare.com/abuse.html>

That won't stop the pirating, but it's something...

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jbrennan
Whatever you do, don't try to limit your app just if it's running on a
jailbroken device. There are many legitimate reasons for Jailbreaking an iOS
device. I've done it countless times to my devices (fellow iOS developer
here), and I've never done so to pirate apps.

In order to pirate apps, you must jailbreak. But in order to jailbreak, you
needn't necessarily pirate apps.

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janl
You can't stop pirates and converting users of the piratery is not worth the
effort. I hope this doesn't drain your revenue, but if you can just push
forward and make paying customers happy and find new ones, that's where I'd
spend my time.

~~~
sippndipp
Probably yes. I'm just curios. I've seen people probing for files outside the
sandbox to detect if someone runs on a jailbroken device. Wonder if Apple
would reject those because of "hacking".

~~~
albedoa
I imagine that if you disable the use of your app by paying customers, the
damages you will incur will dwarf the pain you feel from piracy.

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yzhengyu
Actually, if you have spare time, you should include those who pirate your
apps in whatever usage measurements you already do.

With luck, you can probably discover why people pirate your apps. Maybe due to
price, or that your nearest competitor has a better user experience, etc.

You can try to fight it, by making your most used features something which
needs App Store authorization, but I suspect that will just piss off your
customers who already paid for it and they will start putting 1-star ratings
in the App Store.

------
mkorfmann
Maybe some people just want to test your app. I heard of plenty of people who
download a pirated copy first, to see if it's worth buying. You could release
a test version of the app, so these people don't need to download it
illegally. Otherwise, people who pirate software wouldn't buy it otherwise
also. So, consider this as an indirect PR for your awesome app.

------
dexen
Make the app forever free and provide in-app transactions for some premium
content/functionality.

Perhaps paid-for import/sync of bookmarks with some other movie bookmarking
service -- with something comparable to MyAnimeList [0]. Or ability to
exchange movie bookmarks and comments with friends over FB or G+; if you make
it go through your central server, you can collect some fees for such service.

They say you can't beat free (`pirated'), but `pirates' can't beat your free
version either.

Compete on quality.

\----

[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanimelist>

------
yllus
My sympathies. I'm about to launch a PlayBook app and am fervently hoping that
piracy is less of an issue with BlackBerry users.

Also - I came across <http://getdenso.com/> a few days ago which appears to do
roughly the same thing as your app - have you heard of them? I inquired with
them for an API that I might utilize to bring a BlackBerry PlayBook app into
existence, and I'd like to extend to you the same offer. If you've got an API
I could use, I'd love to bring this functionality to my preferred tablet.

~~~
sippndipp
Hi, just contact me by email: contact _at_ watchlaterapp.com

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vidyesh
I would suggest get a free app account limitation for 10 videos or so. This
way you would get more users too and also some good exposure too as many would
download you app being free. :) Free user Conversion is your App magic ;) IMO,
app is awesome ;)

Also check this, there might be an udpate on iOS5 and you might be lucky.

[http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/12/jailbreak-
detectio...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/12/jailbreak-detection-
api-mysteriously-disappears-in-ios-42.ars)

~~~
sippndipp
Nice idea, thanks for sharing the link.

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Tomek_Kopczuk
Party, mate!

We had our app pirated a few weeks ago, it didn't have any impact on the
sales. People who pirate your app wouldn't buy it anyway I imagine. Unless it
was really well-known and great - but then there's no chance of it not being
pirated.

You can verify if the device is jailbroken, but as @wccrawford said couple of
comments below - they might have paid for it. And I know many people using
jailbroken devices and not pirating one thing.

Party! Your app was deemed worth pirating.

------
mborromeo
Apple introduced an API to check if the device is jailbroken, but after 6
months removed it without any explanation.

However you can still make some check, like to check if the path
/private/var/lib/apt/ exists or not. Since many package managers for cracked
apps are apt-based, you should be able to get most of jailbroken devices.

Sadly (afaik), no way to understand if your app on a device has been cracked
or purchased.

------
jodoherty
I wouldn't worry about it. With iOS apps, it's much easier for people just to
buy your app and have it installed and running on their device than it is to
try and pirate it, so unless you're seriously overcharging for your app, most
people will continue to just legitimately buy and use it.

You could also charge a small recurring service fee for accounts and then give
the app away for free.

------
mirrorskin
As you already have the link to one site spreading your pirated app, I'd
contact them and ask them to remove the link. Sure, this won't stop the
pirates (or other folks sharing the file on other platforms), but it's worth a
try.

Of cause, it would be interesting to see how many people are using the pirated
version of your app, if it can be achieved with little effort.

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beej71
Probably worth a toast, but not worth worrying about. Your target market is
and always has been the people who buy apps through the app store.

We have some free and some non-free apps in the store, and we've never given
the piracy stuff a second thought. We were actually pretty stoked when we saw
the first game pirated. It made us feel legit. ;-)

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amdev
Don't sweat it. This happens to our app, BillMinder, every release. Typically
pirates won't use your app long and probably wouldn't have paid for it anyway
so there isn't much lost revenue. Annoying but not the end of the world.

------
agento
In this case I wouldn't worry too much. The app itself is only really useful
for registered users who have paid through in-App-Purchases.

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path23
Rage! Hunt 'em down. Consequences will never be the same...

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shareme
OKay,

1 the pirate your app act tells you these things:

    
    
        -in their geographical area fro some reason they cannot but it or the price might be too high
        -they love your app

2\. Easier to turn those into paid conversions if paid app gets free updates.

Most of us here can not tell you not take legal action. However, can you turn
this into conversions? I think you can.

On the android side I run into when I sell apps through non Google android
Market stores as those do not have infrastructure of me checking a license api
like Google Android Market does..the things above is my thought process and
steps I will be using..

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them0rtn
damn.

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alfbolide
open source it, which you should've done at the first place anyway.

