
SaveTheInternet.eu – the EU vote on net neutrality tomorrow - kmfrk
http://www.savetheinternet.eu/
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siddMahen
I'm reading the bill right now, I don't know why there's such a fuss. The
people who drafted this document are aware of these issues, and have taken
active measures to make sure they aren't taken advantage of.

For example, this site says:

> The current definition of "specialized service" (Article 2.15) increases
> costs and risk to internet users, and must be changed or deleted.

However, if you look at the actual definition in the bill [1], this has
already been taken care of:

> (15) "specialised service" means an electronic communications service or any
> other service that provides the capability to access specific content,
> applications or services, or a combination thereof, and whose _technical
> characteristics are controlled from end-to-end_ or provides the capability
> to send or receive data to or _from a determined number of parties or
> endpoints_ ; _and that is not marketed or widely used as a substitute for
> internet access service_ ;

(Emphasis is my own.)

Similar arguments can be used for the rest of the sites' points. To be clear,
I'm all for net neutrality, in fact, as a student I've personally benefited
from this enormously. But it's unfair to say this bill is "threatening
internet freedom". Rather, it seems like a big step forwards for consumers and
telecom companies alike.

[1] -
[http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/cf/dae/docu...](http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/cf/dae/document.cfm?doc_id=2734)

~~~
higherpurpose
What about the one where ISP's can unilaterally censor stuff?

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mercurial
Sounds like the gateway to "think of the children" "voluntary" policies.

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shdon
I wrote to every single one of the Dutch MEPs, trying to explain to them what
NN actually is, why a lack of it is a bad thing, and reminding them that our
Dutch national laws _do_ protect NN. Several have e-mailed back that they
agree and will do their bit to protect NN.

I suppose the good thing about Euro-politics is that, even though many
citizens don't seem to care about what Brussels and Strasbourg do, that means
MEPs are more likely to listen when people _do_ voice their concern.

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workhere-io
For those in Denmark, the people you should contact are
[http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/da/28153/BRITTA_THOMSEN_h...](http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/da/28153/BRITTA_THOMSEN_home.html)
and
[http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/da/96710/JENS_ROHDE_home....](http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/da/96710/JENS_ROHDE_home.html)
(there might be others - the full list of Danish members of the European
Parliament is here: [http://www.eu-
oplysningen.dk/guide/alle/vejviser/](http://www.eu-
oplysningen.dk/guide/alle/vejviser/)).

~~~
higherpurpose
It's annoying that the EU site doesn't even allow you to see the MEPs by
country. Nobody thought that would be needed? I had to look for them one by
one and get their e-mails.

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masklinn
La Quadrature du Net has them, FWIW. Here's for Denmark:
[https://memopol.lqdn.fr/search/?q=country%3ADK%20is_active%3...](https://memopol.lqdn.fr/search/?q=country%3ADK%20is_active%3A1)

Not all MPs have contact information filled in though.

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contingencies
If Europe falls, the world is beyond hope.

~~~
Vlaix
Europe fell decades ago. The Marshall Plan we call it.

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ginko
Why do I have to play the one-armed bandit until I possibly reach one of the
19 MEPs from my home country Austria?

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sentenza
They explained the algorithm in a recent episode of Logbuch Netzpolitik [1].
They weighted all MEPs according to their current stance on the issue, so
you're more likely to get the contact info of an opponent of net neutrality
than a proponent.

Nonetheless, I also find it slightly frustrating that they didn't include
country-matching or at least a language preference setting. After all, the MEP
might be more inclined to listen to me if I'm one of their constituents (or if
I am at least able to communicate with them).

[1] [http://logbuch-netzpolitik.de/lnp094-internet-zero](http://logbuch-
netzpolitik.de/lnp094-internet-zero)

~~~
Silhouette
_After all, the MEP might be more inclined to listen to me if I 'm one of
their constituents (or if I am at least able to communicate with them)._

This is something I don't quite understand at EU level.

In the UK, there is a convention that MPs _only_ act for and respond to their
own constituents. Randomly e-mailing the MP for somewhere else is extremely
unlikely to achieve anything useful at all.

I don't know whether the European Parliament has a similar convention, but
even if not, it's hard to see why a random MEP is -- _or should be_ \-- swayed
in their position by representations from anyone other than the voters to whom
they are responsible.

I don't understand why anyone would ever advocate lobbying anyone but their
own representatives. Does this actually achieve anything at EU level?

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binarray2000
We have the same story again, and again, and again... No matter if it's called
SOPA or if it's wrapped in some other cloth, the intention is the same: Big
business wants to preserve its cash cows (interests) by fending off pesky
competition.

We think that our representatives need more information, so we educate them.
But, as much as I think that is true, at the end of the day they'll vote along
their party line, no matter if we educate them or not.

We're fighting with words (educating), big business with money (buying
lobbyists). And they are prepared to ruin their vocal opponents, even drive
them towards suicide (Aaron Swartz).

Sorry for being pessimistic.

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killerpopiller
I've called the Office of Mr. Bütikofer (German Green Party). They are not
optimistic that Trautmans (Social Parties) draft will prevail since the
Liberal Parties will probably vote against net neutrality :(

Although there is hope.

Fuck the EU, btw.

I am sick of the EU Commission - they need constant supervision and try
everything to ruin our freedoms in favor of coporatism. The EU needs to end.
It can't be controlled democratly.

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masklinn
Your comment seems at odd with the site itself, according to which the
commissionner's text, while definitely falling short, was not that far from a
binding NN legislation before being significantly worsened in committees (that
is, outside the commission you rant about):

> While we welcome the intention to enshrine net neutrality into law across
> the EU, the proposal fails to deliver the promise of net neutrality as it
> contains several problematic loopholes. However, _the text itself is not far
> off the mark. With the right improvements, the European Union could have
> binding net neutrality legislation_. The proposal is now in hands of the
> Parliament and will be reviewed by several committees, with the Industry,
> Research and Energy (ITRE) committee as the lead in charge of this dossier.
> _The modifications introduced in some committees have regrettably worsened
> the problems_ in the Commission proposal.

([http://www.savetheinternet.eu/#regulation](http://www.savetheinternet.eu/#regulation),
emphasis mine)

Also not sure what the relation is between your basic assertion that the EU
commission is bad and the EU itself needing to end.

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killerpopiller
it is not about that specific fuck up about to go down, but about all the many
proposition coming from the commission. Propositions which couldn't be
introduced in a normal parliament, because they would be discussed and
citizens would be at alert. E.g. the data retention laws.

The EU distanced itself so far from it's citizens, most topics things don't
reach the people here and this "regulation" is the best example.

The EU is not democratic at all. The parliament members can't even propose new
legislations and EU laws are not always compatible with nation constitutions
which renders it's purpose close to illegitimate.

Instead we have a far away bunch of "politicians" or better "soldiers" ready
to legitimate everything with enough money and power.

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Vlaix
You guys across the Atlantic need to understand than nobody in Europe ever
cared about what the EU votes, unless they're a EU employee themselves.

