
Lyme Disease Cases Are Exploding - sb057
https://elemental.medium.com/lyme-disease-cases-are-exploding-and-its-only-going-to-get-worse-5d3c3a2de5c5
======
robolange
My father nearly died of [what we believe to be] Lyme disease. A few years ago
he started getting awful bouts of pain all over his body. He couldn't eat, was
losing weight, was losing muscle mass fast. It got the the point where he was
using a walker (he was less than 60 years old at the time) and could barely
lift a 5 pound weight. He went to a bunch of different doctors, had all kinds
of scans run, and only kept getting worse. At one point my mother noticed that
every test any doctor gave for Lyme disease came back "inconclusive". She
pointed out to one of the doctors, who said that it didn't mean anything as
apparently the test is not very reliable. Finally, they found a doctor who
prescribed medication to treat Lyme disease without a definitive test because
apparently there was a low risk of side effects. Within a couple of weeks of
starting the medication, my father was visibly better, within a few months he
was basically back to normal, and is basically fully recovered now. (Sorry
folks, I don't know any of the specific drugs or medical terminology.)

We have no idea how or when he got infected. As far as he knows, he never had
a bullseye rash, although apparently that doesn't always happen. Now I slather
myself in DEET whenever I go into a an even semi-woodsy environment.

~~~
Assossa
I would greatly appreciate it if you could find the name of that medication.
My sister has Lyme Disease and is still suffering health effects from it
despite various treatments.

~~~
spacebatsghost
Most non-Lyme Literate Medical doctors prescribe Doxycyclin. If you are seeing
a Lyme Literate Medical doctor they'll put you on a cocktail (often
Clarithromycin, Doxy, Alinia (anti-parasitic), and a few others. This also
depends if you have co-infections or not.

~~~
twic
The UK NICE guidelines suggest doxycycline, and have a section discussing the
evidence for that:

[https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng95](https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng95)

"Lyme literate" seems to be a pseudoscience term related to the ME-like
crypto-syndrome "chronic Lyme disease" \- for example, see towards the end
here:

[https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/legislative-
alchemy-2014-so...](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/legislative-
alchemy-2014-so-far/)

------
erentz
Unfortunately there’s no way to know that one _currently has_ Lyme disease
unless the symptoms are close in time to a tick bite.

Treatment is with antibiotics, usually doctors will use a combination of two
types of antibiotics (eg doxycycline and cefdinir) for which there is some
research suggesting better results. In rare cases IV antibiotics may be
required, especially if evidence of cardiac or neurological involvement.
Duration of treatment is for 1 to 4 months. There’s next to no evidence you
should go longer than that.

After treatment patients may also need immune modulation treatment due to
autoimmune reaction to the infection. High dose ivig in serious cases. Some
patients also find benefit using low dose naltrexone for this though it can
have a very nasty side effect of causing depression so watch yourself using
it.

Almost everything else is a scam. And unfortunately with Lyme, while the
patients are clearly very sick, there are an aweful lot of quacks ready to
part them with their cash so be weary.

It’s important to know there are other illnesses that people need to rule out
too, check for dysautonomia, POTS, ME/CFS, MS, and aaSFPN for example.

~~~
hnzix
Any advice on POTS treatment avenues? There seems to be poor GP knowledge
around the condition, apart from giving fluids via a port to reduce symptoms.

~~~
erentz
I’m mostly familiar with POTS in patients with other chronic symptoms such as
fatigue. I’ve been on high dose IVIG and it’s been helping my POTS a lot.

Take a look at a video on YouTube by a Harvard doctor Anna Louise Oaklander
called Small Fibers Big Problem about the association they are making with
something they label aaSFPN. Also take a look at some results for adrenergic
and muscinaric auto antibodies, which are showing up in patients with POTS and
other dysautonomias.

~~~
hnzix
Thank you very much for providing this information, those are some great leads
I'll follow up.

------
stupidboy
Surprised to see Lyme disease on HN, since bringing affordable DNA testing for
B. burgdorferi & other pathogens to the public is the startup I've been
working on since 2014.

Relevant Plug: [https://www.tickcheck.com/](https://www.tickcheck.com/)

As mentioned in other comments, serological tests fall short in various ways
(accuracy, time). If you keep the tick that bit you, we can test it for the
presence Lyme, and several other pathogens. If negative, we can effectively
rule out much of the risk. Super quick & accurate, too.

~~~
dheera
Interesting. I got bit by 2 blacklegged ticks in the past 3 months but I
couldn't find any free tick tests, so I never had them tested. Both were
within a few hours so I assumed based on CDC advice that I was still in the
green zone. It sounds like one of those things that health insurance companies
would be out of their minds to not cover.

Separately: Bay Area hikers beware -- change your clothes immediately after
getting home, do complete body checks after hiking -- ideally, shower
immediately.

~~~
Alex3917
> Both were within a few hours so I assumed based on CDC advice that I was
> still in the green zone.

I wouldn't trust the CDC data. Notice that there is no primary source on their
webpage.

Here is a paper by someone who took an independent look into it:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4278789/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4278789/)

------
nouveaux
I've recently gotten into backpacking and learned that the most effective way
of dealing with mosquitoes and ticks in nature is Permetherin.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin).

It is intended for clothing and not the skin. The best way to apply it is to
soak your clothes and let it dry. Spray on applicators are also available.
Once it is dry, it is very stable and safe. It does breakdown with UV and
washes, so it will need more applications. It is also available for sale and
the pre-treated clothing does last through more washes.

Note: Permetherin is harmful to cats when it is wet so if you have cats at
home, please read up more on it. Once it is dry, it is safe around cats.

~~~
pmoriarty
Ticks can drop out of trees on your head, or attach to your hair when your
head brushes past some leaves on a tree. Also, if your bare skin is not
covered in insect repellent, that could also be a route that they get to the
rest of your body.

The most effective method of not getting bitten is not to go in to the woods
at all.

~~~
perfmode
> The most effective method of not getting bitten is not to go in to the woods
> at all.

your profile reads:

He who lives without folly is not as wise as he thinks. \-- Rouchefoucald

~~~
abledon
A funny saying I've heard is that "The difference between a smart person and a
stupid one is the smart person knows he is full of stupidity".

------
llamataboot
I may or may not have had chronic lyme disease. I definitely had many many
ticks. (Never cared about em, just pulled them off). And I definitely was sick
for over a decade. And I definitely tested positive on the Western Blot
multiple times. (And chronic lyme is definitely a bit of a catch-all diagnosis
for a host of auto-immune stuff we don't quite understand yet)

It was awful, something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

If you do get a deer tick (they are the small ones, not the giant gross ones)
save it, there are a number of places you can send it for peace of mind that
it was not infected.

Also consider brief antibiotic prophylaxis: 1-3 doses of doxycycline are often
recommended. I'm not in favor of anti-biotic overuse, but if lyme can turn
into chronic lyme and that was indeed what I dealt with for 10 years of pain
and crushing fatigue, then you want to avoid it.

(edit: typos)

~~~
cogman10
Just a note, Chronic lyme disease isn't really a thing.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4477530/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4477530/)

This isn't to say you haven't been dealing with a lot of garbage, just that
you might need to seek different medical care if your doctors are telling you
that you have chronic lyme disease.

~~~
llamataboot
I appreciate your concern. I certainly had something. It certainly sucked. I
certainly shared a lot of symptoms and remission factors with other people who
identified as having chronic lyme. I certainly had Lyme at some point in my
past.

I agree that "alternative medicine" can be a hotbed of pseudo-science and
sketchy treatment, but I also think that in terms of a lot of these chronic
auto-immune related conditions, our evidence base is still pretty small and
there's a lot we don't know. And the dominant Western medical system tends to
do much better with acute conditions with a clear etiology of cause/effect
than nebulous clusters of symptoms (see also, all of mental health).

My hunch is that chronic lyme, just like for example chronic fatigue that
lasts for years after Epstein-Barr, is some sort of auto-immune condition
triggered by the initial infection, even if the initial infection is gone.
With Lyme it is a little more complicated because there are spirochetes
involved.

I assure you I've probably read everything that the NIH has put out about Lyme
all the way to some of the wackiest all caps blinking sketchy sell-me-vitamin
treatment websites out there, as well as chronic fatigue (I spent the first 7
of those years considering it CFIDS). It nearly destroyed all of my 20s.

Treat prophylatically or not, but try not to get Lyme, that's all I'm saying.

~~~
rayalez
Did you get better? What treatments did you use, what did you do?

~~~
llamataboot
I got better. I also struggled with severe depressive tendencies, panic
attacks, social anxiety, and obsessive-compulsive tendencies. I got better
from those as well.

All these things were linked, yet separate. You cannot tell me the chronic
fatigue was just my depression, as I can tell a difference, but neither was my
depression just from not being able to be active for more than about 2-3 hours
each day. Mental health issues pre-dated chronic fatigue, but chronic fatigue
intensified them.

I did many treatments, though I chose to never have a PICC line installed for
months of IV antibiotics - that seemed like chemotherapy to me then and now,
and not without its own risks. Everything from antibiotic regimens to
homeopathy to humming with crystals in my hands. Sometimes I was raw vegan,
other times I smoked heavily, drank heavily, because nothing worked anyway,
why not have fun, etc.

Too long for one comment here, but find me privately if you are struggling
with chronic immune stuff.

I'm unsure what eventually worked, and what was time. A lot of it, cliche as
it is, was the very strong love of a very supportive partner that saw I could
still live, even if I thought I couldn't.

I would say the following things all had major effects, though I don't use any
currently - many of them provide symptomatic relief for some things, I'm not
sure why things shifted underneath it all.

#1) regular injections of methyl-B12 even with normal cyano-b12 levels

#2) low dose Abilify and modafinil and (sparingly) stimulants

#4) regular yoga practice that provided low-impact exercise, mindfulness
amidst the fear that my life was over, and a way back into an awareness of my
body that didn't only have me think it was the enemy that was killing me, and
of a self that transcended whatever I thought I was

#5) treatment for orthostatic hypotension including low dose steroids, salt
pills, compression stockings, etc

#6) psychotherapy

#7) A few times rounds of abx when I was at my worst seemed to help a lot

#8) supplemental testosterone for 2 years when mine was low-normal (is normal-
normal now without supplements)

#9) eliminating all processed anything from my diet for about 4 years, all
gluten for about 5, all refined sugars for about 5 (can eat anything now
without ill-effect) and drinking home made bone broth regularly

(I also know some people will read this and hone in on a few things and be
like oh! he just needed some psych drugs, therapy, and exercise! Those can def
all be helpful things, but I assure you it was a strange and complicated
journey through the mindbody, I still have no sample size other than me, and
the methyl-B12 was by far the most helpful even though that largely falls
under the pseudo-science perpetuated by people searching for autism cures...)

------
cmrdporcupine
Explosion of deer and rodent populations is definitely not helping. We were
walking with our dog at a local natural area we frequent. A deer crossed the
path and we all stopped to take photos, and then moved on. That day we found
ticks all over our dog. The deer are literally swimming in them.

Both rodents and deer are part of the lifecycle of the tick. Suppressing deer
populations and encouraging red foxes and other rodent predators would have to
help.

~~~
rb808
Most people still see deer as cute, but its starting to change. When I see
deer I just see disease carrying vermin. Deer populations have exploded. I
wish they were systematically culled. Time talked about this a while back, I
havent seen anything since. [https://time.com/709/americas-pest-problem-its-
time-to-cull-...](https://time.com/709/americas-pest-problem-its-time-to-cull-
the-herd/)
[https://vet.uga.edu/population_health_files/scwds-150wtdeer5...](https://vet.uga.edu/population_health_files/scwds-150wtdeer507080-2012.jpg)

~~~
gerbilly
I know what you mean.

However we might not be awash in deer if we hadn't first 'culled' all the
predators. Wolves for example.¹

1:
[http://www.uky.edu/OtherOrgs/AppalFor/Readings/leopold.pdf](http://www.uky.edu/OtherOrgs/AppalFor/Readings/leopold.pdf)

~~~
Tharkun
The wolf population is slowly increasing in western europe.

Here's some wolf news for those who enjoy that sort of thing, in Dutch:
[http://www.welkomwolf.be/node/238](http://www.welkomwolf.be/node/238)

~~~
rb808
I'd love wolves roaming around my local forest, but my neighbors with pets and
local farmers wouldn't let it happen.

------
lkrubner
I was bit by a tick and I got sick. No doctor could figure out what was wrong.
I tested negative for Lyme. I took antibiotics (Biaxin) and 3 months later I
was fine. I stopped taking antibiotics. Within 2 months I was sick again. I
took Biaxin for 6 months. I felt great. I stopped antibiotics. Within 2 months
I was sick again. I took Biaxin for a year. I felt great. I stopped taking
antibiotics. Within 2 months I was sick again.

This time, the symptoms were completely different. I assumed it was a new
illness. Doctors were mystified. One said it was psychosomatic. I was off
antibiotics for more than 6 months. I got sicker and sicker. I was in bad
shape when I decided this illness was the same as the previous illness. I took
a combination of Cipro and Zithromax for 1 year. I got better. Then I stopped.
I got sick again.

I was eager to get back to my career so I tried a few antibiotics that might
be light, cheap, easy and sustainable. A friend of mine, as a teenager, had
acne and the doctors had them on antibiotics for 4 years to deal with the
acne. They’d taken something similar to doxycycline. I tried it but it did
nothing for me. I tried hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which gave me great energy
but did not cure me. Then I tried Amoxicillin. That worked great. I took that
for 11 years. Then I quit and got sick again. I went back to Biaxin, and took
that for another 2 years. My business was going well so I could not focus on
my health. I was busy. The simplest thing was to take antibiotics, which kept
me healthy so I could focus on work. So long as I took antibiotics the illness
kept its distance. In that sense, the illness was similar to leprosy — I could
live a normal life but only if I took antibiotics every day.

But I was irritated with my business partner (I’ve written about that
elsewhere). So I sold my share of the business.

Now I had time to focus on my health. What had I not yet tried? What about
fasting?

I went 2 weeks without food. I took antibiotics the first week but not the
second. I felt sick. The fast ended. I had a vegetarian meal. I fell asleep. I
woke up the next day and had a large vegetarian meal. That night I felt funny.
The feeling was similar to that moment, if you have a flu, when the fever
breaks. With a flu, you get sicker and sicker till a moment the fever breaks
and then you know that your immune system has kicked in. That was exactly the
feeling that I had then.

I have not taken any antibiotics since that fast, and I’ve been blessed with
excellent health.

~~~
Galaxity
Now I'm no medical expert but antibiotics resolve an infection after a certain
amount of time. Even for Lyme and leprosy. There may be health after-effects
but those would not be resolved by antibiotics since the infection is gone.
What could possibly outlast 20 years of continuous antibiotics that isn't
either completely killed or mutates and renders the antibiotics ineffective?
And then be resolved with a fast?

~~~
lkrubner
Teenagers with acne often take antibiotics for many years. I had one friend
with severe acne who took antibiotics well into adulthood.

Those teenagers, who take antibiotics, with a microscope at home can do this
simple experiment: prick your finger with a needle and put a drop of blood on
steriled glass, then put that under a microscope. Do you see bacteria? Yes, of
course you do. Even if you take antibiotics for 20 years, your body will still
be seething with bacteria. There is no way to get rid of the bacteria on your
body. That isn’t what antibiotics do. Antibiotics work with your immune system
to bring bacterial load back to a reasonable level. If antibiotics killed all
bacteria then people with compromised immune systems could be kept safe from
bacteria with antibiotics. But there isn’t a doctor in the world who thinks
that’s possible.

~~~
mrfusion
I’m under the impression that blood is very sterile. That’s the point of your
immune system.

~~~
lkrubner
" _that blood is very sterile_ "

Please, if you can find a microscope, go look. Use your eyes. Your blood
system is absolutely not sterile, that is a wildly non-scientific thing to
say. Your immune system can not possibly go after ever protein it meets,
otherwise you would be allergic to all food, and you would die. When you see
an article such as "The dormant blood microbiome in chronic, inflammatory
diseases" ask yourself, what is a dormant blood microbiome?

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4487407/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4487407/)

------
chris72205
Even if there's only one mention of it in the article, I'm glad they included
it: alpha-gal syndrome. Not a ton of people seem to know about it and yet I
continue to meet more and more people that are affected by it.

For those unaware, it causes a person to develop an allergy to red meat and
there's currently no treatment for it other than to wait. Granted, it's not as
serious as Lyme Disease, I hope it gets to be well known so there's increased
chances of finding a cure for it.

~~~
_sword
My friend's brother was bitten by a lone star tick on Long Island and since
has developed that syndrome. It's been pretty funny trying to figure out what
we can cook for him at our BBQ's since apparently the meats he's able to eat
now are essentially chicken, fish, duck, and human.

------
thorwasdfasdf
I read about this issue in a runners World article. Most people assume that
the tics jump from trees down onto people. But that's not how they said it
goes.

They said that the tics which spread Lyme disease get spread onto runners from
Tall Grass that people run through as you make contact with the grass they get
onto you.

~~~
w8rbt
I had a friend who was in the Marines and he told me once that they wore panty
hose when training in areas with ticks. He said the only downside was that
they can be hot in the summer time.

~~~
utexaspunk
...but is that the _only_ downside?

------
wazoox
I've got ticks a few times a year just running in the woods (the last one was
Saturday). During holidays in the Pyrenees with my family, we had to scan our
bodies for ticks every day, and every day we found several -- up to a dozen --
on each of us.

Now the article is very light on the main question: why did ticks multiply
that much recently?

~~~
HarryHirsch
_why did ticks multiply that much recently?_

It's because of warmer winters and an exploding deer population. People need
to take up hunting again to reduce the numbers of those tick motherships.

~~~
ethagnawl
> People need to take up hunting again to reduce the numbers of those tick
> motherships.

... or, as others have said elsewhere in the thread, restore a balance to the
ecosystem by reintroducing and protecting natural predators (wolves, foxes,
etc.).

~~~
HarryHirsch
You'd think that putting wolves and bears into suburbia would attract even
more resistance than bowhunting from tree stands. Something must be done about
the deer overpopulation, they raid peoples' gardens, they prevent forest
regeneration, they are a pest. Maybe we could start by withdrawing from the
suburbs.

------
kaycebasques
I remember standing in line at a coffee shop, after walking some dogs on a
nature trail. I felt a sharp pain on my hip flexor and knew right away it was
a tick bite, even though I had never had one before. I rushed into the
bathroom and lo and behold, it was a tick. In a panic I asked all the women in
the coffee shop if they had tweezers. They must have thought I had a screw
loose. None of them did so I rushed home to pull it off. I kid you not, as I
pulled it, I heard its jaws (or whatever) snap. P.S. you don’t need to burn
them unless they’ve already burrowed.

~~~
bryanlarsen
I had dozens of ticks as a kid. Lyme disease hadn't spread to Canada yet, so
it wasn't a big deal. I never once felt them bite; they produce an anesthetic
so you don't feel it. Sometimes you could feel them crawling on you, but most
of the time you didn't even feel that.

And you didn't hear the jaws snap when you pulled it off, you heard the mouth
parts tearing. You have to be careful pulling a tick off or the mouth parts
will stay in your skin, causing irritation and inflammation.

~~~
nicolaslem
You should avoid pulling, instead hold it with a tool and turn it. After about
two or three turns it usually comes right off.

~~~
nate_meurer
I've heard of such a tool, but never seen one. Otherwise, twisting a tick
using tweezers or your fingers is a great way to break its head off under your
skin.

~~~
_Microft
There are "tick cards", sized like a credit card with narrowing cuts which you
move long the tick until it comes off. Also very practical.

[https://www.amazon.de/s?k=tick+card](https://www.amazon.de/s?k=tick+card)

------
toss1
Might be time for a CRISPR Gene Drive to eradicate ticks in some zones.
Plausibly more critical than mosquitoes.

Obviously we need to be very careful about trying to rebalance what we've put
out of balance, and study to be sure that we are not eliminating a critical
food source for other links in the food web.

[https://psmag.com/magazine/deleting-a-species-genetically-
en...](https://psmag.com/magazine/deleting-a-species-genetically-engineering-
an-extinction)

------
4restm
The advice we were given in my veterinary entomology course was to tweeze as
close as you could from the base and pull perpendicularly to the skin.

You shouldnt yank it, more along the lines of the force you'd use to open a
zipper.

~~~
yread
I've had 100+ ticks always removed them using wet cloth with a tiny bit of
(solid) soap turning counter-clockwise. Somehow clockwise never worked for me,
counter-clockwise it was out after the 2nd rotation. We had both lyme and
tick-borne encephalitis in the family, not too bad if caught early.

------
TimTheTinker
Shout-out to Nicholas Zachas (@slicknet,
[https://humanwhocodes.com](https://humanwhocodes.com)). Thanks for the great
JavaScript books, and praying you feel better!

~~~
hinkley
CTRL-F Nicholas

Yeah, he's mentioned once or twice that his is so bad that he can't even write
reliably, let alone do speaking gigs or consulting work. Stuff like this
scares the shit out of me.

------
Chazprime
This isn't a joke. In New England where I live, in the early 2000's, car
accidents involving moose had become so common that Vermont attempted to halve
the moose population by increasing hunting permits.

Today, the population in New England has been shockingly decimated by ticks...
researchers are pulling upwards of ten thousand ticks off of dying moose.
They've been bled dry, thanks to warmer winters and reduced tick dormancy
periods.

~~~
abledon
Wow, "first dominated by dinosaurs, then humans, the third age of the earth
arrived in 2050, dominated by ticks"

------
khawkins
Bullshit, they're not exploding. Lyme disease confirmed cases are occurring at
roughly the same rate in 2017 as 2007. Look at the CDC data yourself:
[https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/graphs.html](https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/graphs.html)

~~~
switch007
You can call "bullshit" by picking a random year, sure.

I can pick 2010 (22,561) vs 2017 (29,513)

Their data set begins at 1997 and ends in 2017 though:

1997: 12,801

2017: 29,513

~~~
khawkins
Exploding doesn't just mean increasing, it means accelerating. No one would
look at that graph and say the rate is increasing. No doubt they excluded it
from their article, and instead chose to cherry-pick years like you're saying,
because it discredits their title.

------
biohax2015
Lyme disease is awful, and ticks are truly evil creatures. The intellectual
disabilities it causes are especially scary to me as a knowledge worker. It's
about time we start treating this as the public health crisis that it is and
targeting concerted efforts towards eradicating ticks.

------
baxtr
When we go hiking, we won’t leave the house without a tick card or something
similar, e.g tick squeezers. When we get back we scan everyone from head to
toe for ticks. At least Lyme disease can be prevented quite successfully if
the tick is removed within the first 24 hours.

[https://www.cdc.gov/features/lymedisease/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/features/lymedisease/index.html)

------
brainflake
It's too bad LYMErix was taken off the market due to anti-vaccine marketing in
the 90s...

[https://www.vox.com/science-and-
health/2018/5/7/17314716/lym...](https://www.vox.com/science-and-
health/2018/5/7/17314716/lyme-disease-vaccine-history-effectiveness)

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/)

~~~
castratikron
Surprised this isn't well known. I found out on my own a few months ago and
nobody I've talked to about it since knew that this was available.

I would definitely pay money for this if they brought it back. Probably up to
hundreds of dollars.

------
emmp
I grew up in a Lyme hotspot. Every early outdoor memory of mine involved
checking for ticks afterwards.

My younger brother had the bullseye as a very young child. My mother had a
different very debilitating tick borne illness, Babesiosis, but was only
treated for Lyme for months.

I had a blood test when I was 20, and was told I was positive for Lyme. I had
zero symptoms of Lyme, and had been spending most of my time living out of the
region at college, though I had complained of some general fatigue. They put
me on doxycycline, and I dutifully took it. I still don't know whether I
actually had Lyme. My father, a chronic hypochondriac, was put on a Lyme
regimen at one point too, though it was never clear exactly what symptoms he
had.

I'm not entirely sure the point I'm getting at with these anecdotes. Doctors
in Lyme hotspots may diagnose Lyme too readily. More specifically, they may
order too many blood tests, which from my naive research do not look to be
especially accurate for Lyme.

------
Willson50
[https://outline.com/CXBe5a](https://outline.com/CXBe5a)

------
joyjoyjoy
Don't know about US products. But in Europe, this is one of the few ones
guaranteed to work:

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anti-Brumm-
Forte-150-ml/dp/B006ZL4H...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anti-Brumm-
Forte-150-ml/dp/B006ZL4HNY)

~~~
curtis3389
OFF! Deep Woods

[https://www.amazon.com/OFF-Deep-Woods-Insect-
Repellent/dp/B0...](https://www.amazon.com/OFF-Deep-Woods-Insect-
Repellent/dp/B019ZTXU2G)

------
L_226
One of my neighbours when I was growing up in Australia had apparently chronic
Lyme disease, however every doctor she went to told her that there was
indisputably "no Lyme disease in Australia" [0]. This went on for years.
Eventually she had to go on a trip to IIRC the UK to get prescribed the
relevant medication, which she smuggled back to Australia.

[0] -
[https://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Conte...](https://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/ohp-
lyme-disease.htm)

------
beenBoutIT
Foley's wrong about California's tick problems getting worse as the climate
gets hotter and drier. California's western fence lizard has a protein in its
blood that kills the bacterium responsible for Lyme and shares the exact same
climate requirements as the ticks. California doesn't get the tick unless the
lizard is there and the combination keeps Lyme disease in check.

[https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-xpm-2013-aug-20-la-ol-
lym...](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-xpm-2013-aug-20-la-ol-lyme-disease-
lizard-20130820-story.html)

------
switch007
A few years ago I got bitten by something after being close to a deer but
never saw any kind of insect. I had a large inflamed area (one circle IIRC)
for a while, experienced mild flu symptoms for a few weeks, and then some
wrist pains a few weeks after that. Doctor wouldn't give me antibiotics.

I haven't had any physical symptoms since, but I'm pretty sure my mood and
cognitive ability has taken a hit. There are of course so many factors not
controlled for, but it's always at the back of my mind.

------
staunch
I was bitten by little nymph/larval (not sure which) ticks on Bay Trail in
Mountain View, CA. Had to stop riding my bicycle there (which I absolutely
loved) because I just can't afford to be debilitated by Lyme's disease.

I've become violently genocidal towards these little bloodsuckers. If it was
up to me, I'd wipe them out with almost any means, and at whatever cost ;-)

After looking into the anti-tick options I actually started fantasizing about
some kind of super lightweight "earth suit" (like an astronaut's space suit).

Something that you could put on, fully seal yourself in, and then just enjoy
the outdoors with reckless abandon. I know it sounds a bit crazy but I think
it could potentially be a transformative way of exploring the outdoors.

I love the idea of being rattlesnake/tick/spider/thorn-proof. I could sleep
outdoors in the middle of fields, under trees, in puddles, etc.

~~~
jerkstate
FWIW, lyme disease is exceedingly rare on the west coast..

~~~
staunch
Yes, but there are other infectious diseases spread by ticks. And most
importantly, I really don't want to be one of the unlucky few!

[https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/datasurveillance/index.html)

------
coopernewby
This new book, Bitten, describes some of the mystery surrounding the origins
of the disease in the US in the 1960s. [https://www.amazon.com/Bitten-History-
Disease-Biological-Wea...](https://www.amazon.com/Bitten-History-Disease-
Biological-
Weapons/dp/006289627X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1H1E4KW1SW0I1&keywords=bitten+kris+newby&qid=1561500221&s=gateway&sprefix=bitten%2Caps%2C402&sr=8-1)

------
tolmasky
We actually have a vaccine for Lyme disease that was pulled due to the Antivax
hysteria. I believe an article was posted here on Hacker News before, but here
is a link to one otherwise: [https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-
health/2018/5/7...](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-
health/2018/5/7/17314716/lyme-disease-vaccine-history-effectiveness)

We now live in a world where you can vaccinate your dog for Lyme disease but
not yourself.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
We don't vaccinate dogs for lyme disease. We give them a topical or oral
systemic insecticide that permeates their skin and bloodstream so as to kill
ticks on contact.

Dogs have short, and I guess less valuable, lives. So this is considered an
acceptable practice for prevention. And there are many many dogs with severe
reactions to these medications, including some fatalities.

Would you really want to do that to yourself?

~~~
ceejayoz
[https://www.zoetisus.com/products/dogs/vanguard-
crlyme/index...](https://www.zoetisus.com/products/dogs/vanguard-
crlyme/index.aspx)

> For vaccination of healthy dogs 8 weeks of age or older as an aid in the
> prevention of clinical disease and subclinical arthritis associated with
> Borrelia burgdorferi.

------
pastor_elm
The CDC says post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome or 'chronic lyme' doesn't
exist. While i am suspicious of this claim, I know people who say they have
it, and have subjected themselves to every treatment under the sun without any
success.

~~~
ceejayoz
> The CDC says post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome or 'chronic lyme' doesn't
> exist.

You're conflating two terms. PTLDS exists, in patients who had Lyme but
experience post-treatment symptoms.

"Chronic Lyme" is different, and is largely problematic because the folks who
believe they have it tend to have never actually _been_ exposed to Lyme in the
first place.

[https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/chronic-
lyme-d...](https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/chronic-lyme-disease)

------
richcollins
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4920391/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4920391/)

------
ajudson
Are these all real cases or some psychogenic ones? I was under the impression
that a lot of "chronic Lyme" cases were something else.

~~~
msla
There's no such thing as "chronic Lyme disease":

[https://www.fasebj.org/doi/10.1096/fj.10-167247](https://www.fasebj.org/doi/10.1096/fj.10-167247)

[https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/does-everybody-have-
chronic...](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/does-everybody-have-chronic-lyme-
disease-does-anyone/)

~~~
megous
I didn't read the links, but I've read a lot here
[https://lymescience.org/](https://lymescience.org/)

and I also almost fell for "chronic Lyme" few years ago. There's something
seriously unsettling around websites/online communities dedicated to chronic
Lyme. From Lyme friendly doctors, to people doing and interpreting their own
tests, to people ascribing all kind of ailments to this "condition", etc.

~~~
ajudson
If you want to go down another rabbit hole, read about Morgellons

~~~
megous
Uh. Interesting one.

------
agumonkey
Interviewee is wrong about movies. They exist and they're high grade Z movies.

------
pfdietz
Well that's certainly an alarming symptom.

------
hanniabu
Maybe it's wrong, but I'm happy that cases are exploding because that
(hopefully) means there will be more research into better treatments and
preventions.

------
jaequery
This scares me.

------
Kenji
Why is nobody eradicate ticks with genetic engineering? Ticks are a species
that deserves to be eradicated. The health implications are vast and they
don't contribute much to the ecosystem. They're a literal plague.

------
newswriter99
Jack MacReady: It's obvious the bastard's got lyme disease!

Bill Pardy: What?

Jack MacReady: Lyme disease. You touch some deer feces, and then you... eat a
sandwich without washin' your hands. You got your lyme disease!

Bill Pardy: And that makes you look like a squid?

------
gregoryexe
This article blames sprawl and climate change, but neglects the connection to
the Plum Island Animal Disease Center right off the coast of Lyme CT. Borrelia
has been in the US for ages, but wasn't known for causing the debilitating
symptoms this modern strain causes.

~~~
ceejayoz
[http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/04/02/lab.257/index.ht...](http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/books/04/02/lab.257/index.html)

> Moreover, a Department of Agriculture spokesperson, Sandy Miller-Hays, told
> the news service that -- counter to Carroll's claims -- Lyme disease was
> never studied at Plum Island.

As for symptoms, it was described in the 1760s as "exquisite pain [in] the
interior parts of the limbs", neurological symptoms in the 1920s, etc. That it
took a while to recognize the _cause_ of these things doesn't mean the disease
didn't exist.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#History)

~~~
ColanR
I think that a government spokesperson should not be considered a reputable
source when speaking on potential misdoings by the same government. Is there
an independent source that can speak to the Plum Island claims?

~~~
ceejayoz
Given that it's impossible to prove a negative, the onus is on conspiracy
theorists to provide evidence that Lyme research was performed there.

~~~
ColanR
15 years ago, conspiracy theorists were being asked to prove government
spying. It's hard, and the coverup might leave only circumstantial evidence,
but it doesn't mean its not true.

Either way, if you're trying to provide a source against the point being made,
it needs to be better than that one. Is there any other?

Edit: I did a bit of looking into it.

Tick-borne diseases were definitely studied there, which means general subject
was being researched. (a bunch of pubmed studies are listed here [1], and
pubmed shows in the author information that they were from Plum Island. Ignore
the site if you like, just look at the pubmed articles.)

The geography of the disease also fits a spread from the Plum Island facility.
See the same article for a map.

I obviously can't go order and read a physical book off the cuff, but it seems
like the Lab 257 book by Carroll is decently reliable, as far as can be
expected when making claims counter to an official government position. From
wikipedia: "The review in Army Chemical Review concluded 'Lab 257 would be
cautiously valuable to someone writing a history of Plum Island'".

Anyway, in summary, there is enough evidence to ask a reasonable question:
which puts the onus back on the government, or you, to provide credible
evidence that Lyme was not developed there.

~~~
ceejayoz
> The geography of the disease also fits a spread from the Plum Island
> facility. See the same article for a map.

No, it doesn't, considering it was documented in Scotland in the 1700s. The
Plum Island facility was started in 1954.

> From wikipedia: "The review in Army Chemical Review concluded 'Lab 257 would
> be cautiously valuable to someone writing a history of Plum Island'".

The _actual_ quote is:

> The review in Army Chemical Review concluded "Lab 257 would be cautiously
> valuable to someone writing a history of Plum Island, _but is otherwise an
> example of fringe literature with a portrayal of almost every form of
> novelist style. "_

In other words, "it gets the biographical stuff mostly right, before it goes
nutty".

> Anyway, in summary, there is enough evidence to ask a reasonable question:
> which puts the onus back on the government, or you, to provide credible
> evidence that Lyme was not developed there.

Lyme's historical record predating the very existence of the lab is fairly
conclusive proof that it wasn't developed there.

~~~
gregoryexe
> No, it doesn't, considering it was documented in Scotland in the 1700s. The
> Plum Island facility was started in 1954.

Yes, it does. This strain was before unseen in the US so much so it's very
name references where it was first seen in the US, regardless of where it may
have been elsewhere in the world.

