

Xcode 4 released - grk
https://developer.apple.com/xcode/

======
achompas
"Wow, I'd love to develop for Mac! Let's see...where's Xcode..."

 _Dev navigates to the App Store._

"Ah! Here we are. Now I can make splendid apps for Mac and iOS like I've
always want--"

 _He notices the $5 fee...jaw drops, eyes bug out._

"What is THIS?! A price for DEV TOOLS?! Confound it all, now I can't develop
for the platforms I love!"

 _Buries head in hands, then looks to the heavens._

"JOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBS!!!"

 _End scene._

\--

Working title of this play: "The Story of a Developer That Doesn't Exist."

~~~
jkahn
I know you're being tongue-in-cheek, but it seems like a lot of others aren't.

This is only five dollars folks. You get a hell of a lot of value for that
five bucks. I don't think Apple will even recoup their development and
distribution costs with that. I'm guessing the main reason for the price is to
deter every man and his dog from downloading it - anyone who cares can part
with five bucks.

~~~
jcl
It is a puzzle. At one time, developer tools were priced to extract money from
developers. Then, when third-party free tools came along, platform owners
realized that market share and lock-in was much more valuable and started
giving their tools away for free. But now Apple is neither charging to recoup
development costs nor giving tools away. It is strange that the cost should be
so close to free yet not actually be free.

My working assumption is that Apple is charging to ensure that each developer
must experience the App Store purchasing process at least once, thereby
encouraging them to write apps for it.

~~~
varikin
But, if you pay for the Mac Developer Program, you can download it from the
website. So either $5 or $99/year. But you need to pay $99/year to submit apps
to the app store—at least iOS app store, I assume the same for Mac App Store.
So developers _don't_ have to experience the app store.

I think it is to deter everyone from installing XCode just because they can.
That 4+ GB download isn't free on their side. It is just enough of a pain
point to make sure the user is sure they want it, but not so bad that people
have to save up for it.

~~~
reemrevnivek
Well, each time a single app sells on the app store, they get 30%. If we
assume it costs $5 to host XCode, then if each developer averages 17
downloads, they'll make a few cents off of each one. If we assume that one
developer in a thousand gets 17,000 downloads, they'll still make money.

The argument for covering their hosting costs seems hollow to me, even if we
assume it actually costs $5.

------
starnix17
It's great software, and definitely worth $5, but one thing concerns me.

Most open source software I use requires Xcode to be installed in order to use
GCC and other build tools.

Does this mean you'll have to purchase Xcode 4 in order to (easily) install
these tools from now on?

~~~
cschep
I totally agree that software is worth paying for, especially at 5$, but what
is it that rubs the wrong way about this? It's so irritating. Developer tools
should be free. Charge more for something else!

If I may quote PG: "They make such great stuff, but they're such assholes. Do
I really want to support this company?"

This is only getting more and more true. Stop it Apple!

~~~
jonny_eh
Why should dev tools be free? Adobe's whole business is selling dev tools.
Should Adobe stop selling Flash Builder and instead sell Flash Player?

Dev tools should only be free when the platform owner is desperate for
developers. This used to be true for Apple, but not any more!

~~~
cschep
Adobe sucks.

------
orenmazor
Since when do you have to be a member of the ios or mac developer programs to
download xcode? I'm pretty sure I've downloaded previous versions just using
my apple account.

~~~
originalgeek
Since when do you get downvoted on hn for speaking the truth? Oh, yeah,
always.

~~~
aquarin
Voting has always puzzling me here, but karma is not the pathway to haven.

~~~
originalgeek
It's not about the karma, it's about people attempting to silence those who
simply speak the truth. HN fades one's comments more for each step below 0.
I'm not sure how it works, but I assume eventually your posts fade into the
background color.

------
stevederico
If you are logged in and are trying to download but are getting an access
denied error, go to <http://developer.apple.com/membercenter> and accept the
new terms. You should now be able to download from
<http://developer.apple.com/xcode/>

~~~
msluyter
I also ran across this, and on the error page, neither of the links for Apple
support worked. It sometimes amazes me that a company that's generally as
polished as Apple can still suffer from bugs like this one.

------
alexknight
If you're just learning iOS, you can still download 3.2.6 for free by logging
into the Dev Center with a standard iTunes account.

If you just want to play around, I'd recommend that.
<https://developer.apple.com/devcenter/mac/index.action> is where you'll find
the download (unless they decide to pull that).

~~~
jedsmith
You can get the iOS SDKs without paying? I thought it was only 10.5 and 10.6
you could get without being in the iOS Developer Program.

~~~
frankus
You can get the (release) iOS SDK for free, but can only run your code in the
simulator.

When you pony up $99, Apple will sign your code-signing certificate so that
your code can run on unmodified devices, and they will also allow you to
submit apps to the App Store.

------
rauljara
I know it's not new, but I still get a kick every time I see "Zombie
Detection" listed on the features page and I re-realize it's not a joke.

"Zombie Detection: Hard-to-find application errors and crashes can be trapped
within Instruments when an application tries to access memory no longer
available."

------
phren0logy
No longer available free for those without the $99 Mac or iOS developer
membership.

It is, however, only $5 from the app store.

~~~
originalgeek
I'll pony up the $5 but I have to say, Apple sure is ignoring past lessons of
the industry. Namely, those with free dev tools have little problem attracting
developers.

~~~
tptacek
A gobsmackingly weird comment considering that for the majority of the
lifetime of the most popular application development platform on the planet,
its development tools cost hundreds of dollars.

~~~
originalgeek
That's a very Windows-centric comment. The cases I am referring to are in
regard to non-dominant platforms. Compare OS X, NetWare, Linux to the likes of
OS/2, MacOS (8/9), Solaris.

~~~
tptacek
During their dominant periods, dev tools on Solaris and OS9 cost money.

~~~
originalgeek
Yes, that is precisely my point.

------
DeusExMachina
I have been using it since the first developer preview, and I have to say that
is really a leap forward. Apple seems to have learned from good features in
other IDEs. Still not perfect, but much better than version 3.

But it surprises me to see the final release this soon. The GM seed 2 still
had some issues, especially with syntax coloring/code autocompletion, which is
now tied do LLVM. I hope they addressed this in the proper way, since the last
GM seed was just 5 days ago. When the syntax indexing broke, it rendered XCode
totally unusable (I had to reinstall version 3 since I was not able to solve
the problem in any way and I found a thread in the Apple forum where people
where complaining about this issue).

EDIT: some grammar.

------
jtdowney
I wonder if they will package the toolchain sans IDE for free as a download.
Otherwise in the future package managers on OS X (homebrew, macports, fink,
etc) may have a $5 entry fee.

~~~
CJefferson
I really hope the toolchain is released for free.

Even if it is not, the various apps are open source, so I imagine someone will
knock together a free downloadable toolchain.

------
cmaggard
It figures that this would come out just when I let the latest version
download overnight for a new computer.

That having been said, I'm excited to give it a spin. I've heard a lot of
great things about it.

~~~
alextgordon
Hah! My developer membership expired a few hours ago (ok they did give me 15
days' notice). So I have to spend $5 or wait a day for them to reactivate it.
_sigh_

------
callmeed
FYI, I was getting an error when trying to download (I'm a registered dev).
Turns out I had to agree to their updated license agreement first.

In case anyone else runs into errors downloading.

~~~
jedsmith
P1?

~~~
callmeed
I don't follow ...

~~~
jedsmith
The error page had a code, and I asking if that code was P1 for you too. I
accepted the new license on behalf of my company and it went away, so it's a
moot point now.

------
KevinMS
Now I'm baffled. I downloaded Xcode yesterday, and today I was going to start
mac programming for the first time, and now Xcode is 5 dollars or join? Do I
need to join now? I seem to have access already to their documentation so I'm
completely baffled. I think I'll try development for all three, iphone, ipad
and mac apps. I think you also need a license to develop iphone apps? Ugh,
Help!

Am I going to lose access to this page soon? Or is there more I need?

<http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/navigation/>

EDIT: found this

"Basically, $99 gets you access to beta software, 2 tech support incidents,
and access to developers resources - videos and forums."

So I guess the docs will still be free at that link.

Also, you seem to be able to develop iphone apps and run on the simulator, but
to transfer to a actual iphone, you need a type of license, which I assume is
included in the ios developer program.

------
jrnkntl
Wow, what a pleasant surprise. Didn't think it would be released before Lion.

------
zppx
Will there be a way for me to install the developer tools for the command line
(a C compiler, the C library headers, linker, assembler, and debugger) without
using the App Store?

------
Poiesis
I'm kind of wondering what drove this move to a paid app. Driving away
pathological customers? Increasing app quality? Somehow tying every OS X and
iOS app--for sale or otherwise--to an identity/credit card? If it's a signed
app, they could in theory attach some signature to everything you build, even
for Cydia or the like.

------
lordgilman
I wonder if the price is motivated by the cost of bandwidth. A free, multi-
gigabyte Xcode that can be downloaded easily off the App Store would bring in
many downloads from people with no use for it. Maybe the $5 price is just
enough to cut back on the quantity demanded and impulse downloads.

------
rbarooah
Apple believes software is worth money.

I guess a lot of people here don't. Which I find odd.

------
waffenklang
It looks like Embarcadero's Delphi, even with that own debugger stuff. All in
one.

------
cardinalblue
Suppose I have 4 Macs but only 1 developer account ($99 per year). Can I
download Xcode 4 for free on all 3 machines, or is there a limit on the number
of Macs per developer account? Has anyone tried this?

------
martythemaniak
Looks heavily inspired by Eclipse, and I mean that in a good way.

~~~
noarchy
Yes, but Eclipse is still free.

~~~
jkahn
And Eclipse still sucks.

~~~
vetinari
Still less than Xcode.

~~~
jedsmith
So, never used Xcode for any length of time, then?

------
tvon
I can't dig anything up, does anyone know if there are officially documented
ways to build extensions for xcode? Say, to support other languages?

------
rbarooah
Apple believes software is worth money.

I'm not sure why that surprises people. What does surprise me is that _people
here don't_.

