
Soylent Closes $50M Series B Round Led by GV - thejacenxpress
http://blog.soylent.com/post/160300733977/soylent-closes-50-million-series-b-round-led-by
======
johnfn
Soylent gets a lot of hate (I'm looking forward to skipping out on this thread
before the inevitable negative comments from people who assume that Soylent
consumers will eat nothing but Soylent for the rest of their lives), but to
me, it's solved a large problem in my life: what to eat when I'm hungry but I
don't have enough time to prepare a full meal. It can happen every now and
then when I'm rushing around, and soylent blows away whatever I'd eat before
(nothing, some Mexican I bought in the Mission, clif bars, etc).

I've actually switched over to a product called Ample which is similar to
Soylent but a bit more health conscious with ingredient choice. Still, I've
got nothing against Soylent.

~~~
milquetoastaf
What advantage does Soylent have over say, other meal replacements e.g.
Slimfast, weight watcher shakes, juices etc that have existed for years before
it and will continue to do so for years after? All I see is SV hype and
marketing. In fact you just showed that Soylent is easily outplayed because
you switched to a different drink already.

~~~
thaumaturgy
You can't go hiking with Slimfast, Weight Watcher shakes, or juices.

What I don't understand: the REI market is the one place where Soylent is
inarguably better than any other product in its niche, and nobody seems to
give a shit about that.

I carry a bag of dry Soylent in my SAR pack. When I get sent out on an
assignment, I have no idea how long I might be out for. For less weight than
any other option, I have dinner and breakfast and lunch if necessary.

If I know in advance I'm going to be out hiking for more than about three
hours, a pre-mixed solution of it in a Nalgene, with a quick chug here and
there, really beats back the fatigue.

The REI market is not small, and it's got a huge focus on ultralight,
ultralight, ultralight now. Soylent really seems to be missing an opportunity
here.

~~~
koolba
What are the acronyms REI and SAR?

~~~
obmelvin
REI = Recreational Equipment, Inc. (essentially a a camping and hiking store
though they do have some general sports stuff like bikes)

SAR = search and rescue

------
rubatuga
Although I was initially brought onto the hype train by great marketing and
the promises of health and complete nutrition, I realize that my initial
reliance on Soylent was actually part of a deeper problem, brought on by
problems such as depression and inappropriate time management. When in reality
I should have had enough time to eat out or possibly even cook a meal, I found
myself relying on Soylent. I didn't leave my room, and had trouble doing
anything. I soon began to lose my appetite and had to force myself to gulp it
down, attempting to make sure I wouldn't starve myself. Drinking Soylent was
ruining my health.

I think many people approach Soylent as a way to solve some of their problems,
but people should realize it won't be and can't be. Another person I knew had
bought a few boxes of Soylent attempting to lose weight. In reality, she did
not change her weight appreciably, as all she did was consume the same number
of calories she would have otherwise.

Lastly I would like to add that there is some debate over the actual
nutritional efficacy of the composition of Soylent. If you look at the
bioavailability of their calcium supplement, calcium carbonate, it is
significantly less than the one found in milk, calcium phosphate. However,
Soylent will still claim that it is possible to have 100% D.V. of calcium with
5 bottles.

Overall, Soylent is probably not a healthy solution to your problems.

~~~
cptskippy
I tried Soylent v1.2-1.4 for about 6 months thinking I could better regulate
my calorie intake and lose some weight. In the end it wasn't for me.

I found that it did nothing to satiate my appetite and that I'd be hungry,
bloated and gassy all day long. The bloating and gas were incredibly
uncomfortable and never really subsided. Eschewing the normal 3 meals a day
routine and doing 5 meals didn't seem to help. Despite the fact that I was
only consuming 2000 calories, 500 less than recommended for my
size/weight/age/sex, I managed to gain weight.

The powder was messy and would coat whatever surface I prepared it on with a
fine dusting. The liquid smelled unpleasant after a while and eventually I
started to smell like it when I sweat. The liquid was basically an oil and
solid particulate suspension so if you spilled it on anything it was difficult
to clean up because the particles would work their way into fabric. Not such a
problem for clothes but more so for furniture or car seats.

From a social perspective it really sucked because meals are a time to
socialize it was awkward to go out with people and not order anything. I
gradually moved to half days which actually curbed the weight gain I was
seeing and eventually motivated me to give it up.

~~~
vidarh
> Despite the fact that I was only consuming 2000 calories, 500 less than
> recommended for my size/weight/age/sex, I managed to gain weight.

2500kcal is only suitable for people living a very active lifestyle or
exercising a lot. Note that going to the gym for 45minutes 3 times a week is
not being active.

When I spent an hour lifting heavy weights 5 times a week, my weight was
stable at around 2500kcal.

The reality is that unless you work as a construction worker or other type of
job that keep you active most of the day and/or exercise a _lot_ (my 5x a week
were heavy compound powerlifting lifts), chances are you need to adjust those
recommendations down substantially.

Ultimatly the only thing you can do is to gradually lower your intake until
you're losing weight. That you were adding weight at 2000kcal is not that
surprising.

I've not tried Soylent, but I've trued Huel, and compared to what you
described it seems a lot more pleasant, and more importantly, if anything I've
found it hard to eat enough on it because it fills me up so much. The biggest
problem for me in using it as much as I'd _like_ is that filling me up doesn't
stop me craving food - it's a reward thing for me.

~~~
cptskippy
Every source I've found indicates that my maintenance caloric intake should be
2400+ calories. Where do you get your information from?

~~~
vidarh
A steady stream of accounts like yours of "it says my intake should be X, but
when I ate X I added weight".

In your own case you've yourself proven that the sources you've found are
wrong or at least have a ridiculous error margin, given that you've measured
that your maintenance intake is much lower than your sources claim it should
be.

Meanwhile it's exceedingly rare to see the opposite.

One of the big issues appears to be that people take advice based on a belief
they are more active than they are. E.g. as I mentioned elsewhere, pretty much
anyone in an office job is sedentary by default, even if they spend most of
their spare time being active.

------
dreammakr
Long-time lurker, first time commenter. I've seen several people mention that
there have not been meal replacement products like Soylent ever. The
nutritional profile reminds me of EAS Myoplex + additional vitamins. Myoplex
has been around since the mid 90s and was always marketed as a meal
replacement. Learned about it from a bodybuilder website when trying to gain
weight and easily "eat" extra meals. They have never marketed in the way
Soylent has but it serves the same purpose. I took it to replace at least one
meal a day for about two years. Blood work during that time period was normal
and it worked well imo. Nothing against Soylent but the product is not a new
concept.

~~~
jimmar
Soylent does look similar to EAS Mypolex (comparing the nutrition from here:
[https://www.amazon.com/EAS-Myoplex-Original-Protein-
Chocolat...](https://www.amazon.com/EAS-Myoplex-Original-Protein-
Chocolate/dp/B00148RKFU)). One issue is that to get 2,000 calories of EAS
Myoplex you'd have to drink about 7 bottles. If you drink 7 bottles you'd be
getting way too much of some vitamins and not enough of others.

~~~
dreammakr
The purpose is not completely replace all of your meals with it. I realize
some use Soylent as such but in general having one item be your sole food
source is probably not the best idea. If I'm not mistaken even the packaging
of Soylent state that it's not intended to replace every meal.

------
tommynicholas
The new cacao Soylent is so much tastier than I expected it would be. Despite
all the mocking Soylent gets, the product is excellent. Maybe it's
groundbreaking and maybe it's not, but it's definitely helpful to my life.

~~~
akcreek
The cacao is pretty good, but the other new flavor, nectar, is terrible IMO.
Tastes like liquid pez. I still prefer the original flavor for meals. Cacao
tastes more like a treat than a meal.

~~~
robbiemitchell
It's my favorite. Tastes like the milk leftover from a bowl of Fruit Loops.

------
Afforess
The crowds here saying that Soylent is "just" rebranded Ensure/Slimfast/etc
sound like the same voices that said Dropbox was rebranded rsync/scp/ftp. The
arguments are cookie-cutter and wrong for the same reasons they were with
Dropbox.

~~~
callmeed
Ok, so what are those reasons exactly?

I actually don't believe your analogy holds. My mom uses Dropbox but she would
never use rsync. But my mom can drive to Target or open her Amazon app and buy
Ensure just as easily as she can order Soylent.

I _do_ think Soylent is just rebranded Ensure/Slimfast and there's nothing
wrong with that. For the most part, Ensure targets baby boomers, Slimfast
targets gen-xers or people who want to lose weight, and Soylent targets
millenials/professionals. Again, nothing wrong with it (so long as you don't
act like Soylent is some revolutionary/brave-new-world product).

------
stevenwu
On the topic of raising/burning $:

I remember seeing that they had a position open for a software engineering
role. If I remember the job description correctly, they've built out their own
online store?

I recently saw that you can buy their products through Amazon - I wonder if it
was money well spent to roll out their own web store versus using
Amazon/Shopify. As a past customer I don't remember seeing any particularly
unique feature that made hiring in-house staff for this aspect necessary.

~~~
jeffshin
If you order through the website, they have a subscription product with a
decent set of features, like different pricing and pausing subscriptions.

------
tonydiv
It amazes me that VCs find this type of business interesting because it's not
defensible in many of the ways a software company is. I am also not sure why
the company wants to raise this much money -- they need to continue growing
like crazy (outside of tech regions where engineers who are unwilling to cook
live) or go bust.

Nonetheless, the drink is ok. I tried it for a few months. Instead of avoiding
cooking, I have embraced it, and now cook incredible meals for $3-$4 using my
Joule sous vide. Eating real food has changed my mood significantly.

If anyone in SF wants to buy a whole box of Soylent Original (white bottles),
I will sell an extra I have for 40% off. Must pick up, located at
Chavez/Bryant.

~~~
tedmiston
> it's not defensible in many of the ways a software company is

As a customer, I don't think about that at all. They may open source their
recipes and products, but buying bottles from them is still relatively cheap
and by far the most convenient option. Also, whenever mistakes do happen,
their support is excellent. This is why they'll continue to get my business.

~~~
tonydiv
you will begin to consider alternatives when they are available, and at a
lower cost

~~~
tedmiston
I'm not so sure — alternatives at a comparable price are already on the
market. I could make it myself and save more but it's not worth the tradeoff
of time and inconvenience to save $1–2.

Personally my price sensitivity for it is pretty low. At $2–3 per meal, it's
cheaper than any other meals besides breakfast throughout the week.

~~~
mod
There's a lot of DIY recipes and some are supposedly just as complete and a
whole lot cheaper: [https://www.completefoods.co/diy/recipes/brets-soylent-
oat-r...](https://www.completefoods.co/diy/recipes/brets-soylent-oat-rice-
complete-low-price)

~~~
tedmiston
Do they solve the shelf life problem though?

This is the biggest pain point I experienced with the powder version of
Soylent — it's inconvenient that the taste goes off and it starts going bad
after just 2–3 days whereas the bottles are good for months or more.

------
Karunamon
To hopefully short-circuit a lot of pointless debate, the product you're about
to mention is not equivalent to Soylent unless all of the following conditions
are true:

1\. It contains enough calories for an average healthy adult to live on
(2000/cal/day, give or take)

2\. The sugars used are high glycemic index

3\. You will incur no major nutritional deficiencies/toxicities by long term
use

4\. It costs no more than $14/day (or $8/day for the powder) while satisfying
all above conditions

Most diet drinks fail on condition 1, most meal replacements you're aware of
like Ensure fail on conditions 2 and 3, and the leftovers usually fail on
condition 4.

------
zorbadgreek
I'm trying to understand what Soylent's business moat is. My inclination is
economies of scale to drive cost of goods down, like many food companies.

To that end, I don't see their product as all that unique or difficult to
replicate, and I also foresee headwinds for them if/when they try to market to
a broader base of consumers who already have powders, shakes, bars, and
hundreds of other meal substitutes to choose from.

~~~
ecspike
They don't really have one. If you go to
[https://www.completefoods.co/](https://www.completefoods.co/) , you can find
a bunch of meal replacement recipes many of which are soylent inspired because
they couldn't get soylent shipped to them. Some people also ship their custom
blends.

/r/soylent is a popular place where people talk about meal replacements.

I think they are kind of like Kleenex, they will become the common name for
the genre.

As for taste, I tried Soylent and it tasted like wet cardboard to me. I ended
up switching to Schmilk (you mix the powder with milk) and the now
discontinued 100% Food.

------
NathanCH
Soylent as a company has been run terribly. They've had numerous recalls and
the recent price increase for Canadian customers is highway robbery.

That said, Soylent has improved my diet significantly. My entire life I have
struggled to consume enough calories. Adding one serving of Soylent per day
has allowed me to do two things:

1\. Increase the number of calories I consume so I am in a daily surplus (I've
gained a healthy 13 pounds since 2015 thanks to Soylent).

2\. More importantly Soylent has accustomed me to eating larger meals. I can
actually go to a restaurant and eat a full meal. I'm sure you can understand
how much that has improved my social life.

Prior to Soylent I was consuming Ensure daily for more than five years but
it's not enough calories to make a difference plus it's way more expensive.

~~~
jessriedel
> the recent price increase for Canadian customers is highway robbery

Could you explain? I just checked the prices for 12-packs of original soylent
is CAD$3.56/bottle in Canada and USD$2.69/bottle in the US. That's an
effective exchange rate of 1.36 CAD/USD, and the current exchange (as I type
this) is 1.37 CAD/USD.

Or are you just complaining about an overall recent price increase? I have
been paying CAD$29 per 12-pack since April 2016.

~~~
throwaway8800
The $3.56/bottle you see on their website when switched to Canada as your
location is not CAD, It's USD.

I just ordered a 12 pack at $3.75 a bottle ($45/case - the price shown when
you're not subscribing) and was charged $45USD which turned out to be $61.64
on my credit card, or $5.14CAD a bottle.

~~~
jessriedel
Wow, jeez, the ratio was so close I just assumed. You select a Canadian flag
on the website, pay with a Canadian credit card, deliver to a Canadian
address, and they charge you in US dollars without mentioning it anywhere (and
all prices unmarked USD vs CAD). Unreal.

------
mks40
A question to Soylent customers:

Do you use it as the occasional convenient meal replacement or how far do you
go into replacing all real food?

I suspect there is both, but what I am getting at is how much Soylent's long-
term success depends on people seeing eating as a nuisance that should be
optimized away versus something that should be savoured and enjoyed.

To me this is in the context of the larger question of personal utility
maximisation. In the grand scheme of things, we have just started being able
to really monitor and improve all aspects of our lives (in terms of time
spent, convenience), and there is the question of how far we (most
people/potential customers) ultimately want to go. It has become clear that
there is the potential to optimise away friction/time spent in almost all
human habits, but it is not yet clear if we really want to keep going down
that route.

Will we keep optimizing things like meals just because we can until there are
(conceivably) nutrient implants that make eating unnecessary, or will we sort
of revert and see that maximising utility of every interaction does not lead
to overall greater satisfaction?

In one world, Soylent could eventually dominate, in the other, it will remain
a niche product because eating and food is too important too most, also
culturally speaking.

~~~
plus
>Do you use it as the occasional convenient meal replacement or how far do you
go into replacing all real food?

I replace the majority of my meals with Soylent, but the point isn't to
replace all meals...

>I suspect there is both, but what I am getting at is how much Soylent's long-
term success depends on people seeing eating as a nuisance that should be
optimized away versus something that should be savoured and enjoyed.

In my opinion, eating real food is an indulgence, not a nuisance. People who
are very busy frequently cannot find the time to prepare nutritious, healthy
meals from the bare ingredients, and purchasing ready-made food that is
nutritious and healthy can be prohibitively expensive for some people.

Soylent is meant to replace a fast food burrito or a McDonalds breakfast
sandwich, not a home-cooked steak dinner or a meal at a restaurant with
friends and family. In my view, Soylent is not about minimizing the amount of
time spent on preparing and eating food, it's about providing a convenient,
nutritious, and (relatively, compared to fast food) cheap source of nutrition
for those times that I don't have social obligations and I don't want to/don't
have time to cook something for myself.

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
> People who are very busy frequently cannot find the time to prepare
> nutritious, healthy meals from the bare ingredients, and purchasing ready-
> made food that is nutritious and healthy can be prohibitively expensive for
> some people

I'm sorry, but I'm getting really tired of reading people use this as a
justification for soylent; I'm not saying there is a convenience to it, but
phrasing it this way is kind of sad. It does not take a lot of ingredients, or
time, to make a set of meals for the week.

~~~
plus
It does require forethought, planning, a knowledge of how to cook food, and
the ability to source and store ingredients, however. All of which sounds like
too much of a hassle for me, to be perfectly honest. Rob Rhinehart, the
creator of Soylent, doesn't even own a refrigerator (not that I'm suggesting
people should be more like Rob...). While you may find it sad that others
don't have the time or patience to cook, for a lot of people it's just one of
those things they'd rather not have to deal with -- and for those people,
Soylent isn't an alternative to cooking real healthy food, but rather to
buying a burger at McDonalds.

~~~
TarpitCarnivore
> and for those people, Soylent isn't an alternative to cooking real healthy
> food, but rather to buying a burger at McDonalds.

I'm aware of food deserts and the issue of meal costs for low-income families,
but then advocate for soylent in that manner and how it can improve
downstream.

------
tdees40
It's a food company, and its product is fully baked. Why aren't they
bootstrapping? Are they not profitable? If so, how do they have a business? If
I sold ketchup at a loss, would I be able to close a $50M financing round?

~~~
camillomiller
If you call it Ktchp.io, you pretend you're using a better recipe generated
through machine learning, you create an AR solution to serve it better and
more effectively, [insert easy quip about startup culture here], then maybe
yes.

~~~
pinaceae
No, it should have a 400$ wifi-enabled ketchup squeezer with the force of a
hundred 747s.

~~~
camillomiller
Or the company doesn't really sell ketchup but it offers a platform that lets
you share ketchup with your neighbors for a small fee (initially subsidized by
investors).

------
ckastner
I find it odd how popular Soylent has become. I always considered it to be the
product that it was in the movie: the absolute minimum of nourishment given a
lack resources. A dystopian nightmare.

A popular argument seems to be "I don't have time eat something proper". To
me, that just replaces the lack of one resource (the ones in the movie) with
another (time).

------
victorhooi
I just completed the Everest Base Camp trek with my wife - I used Soylent
(version 1.4) for the hike. So I basically subsisted on Soylent for 2 weeks of
hiking/climbing up to 5,500 metres above sea level.

I did 1 packet per day (2000 calories), supplemented with some snack food on
the trail (dried nuts and fruit, Stinger-brand honey waffles, muesli bars
etc.).

Motivation was firstly as an experiment (to see how I would cope), secondly
because I wanted to accurately control/measure my caloric intake, and thirdly,
because I was somewhat paranoid about getting food poisoning on the trek. (I
used a MSR Guardian to provide clean filtered water for mixing up Soylent).

I didn't really notice any odd effects - and it went better than expected
well. Didn't get food poisoning (wife got diarrhoea, but she ate local food) -
was a bit hungry on some days (in hindsight, 2,000 calories was a bit low - I
upped it to 2,500 calories on the day I climbed Kala Pattar).

All I can say was, Soylent was great for this use-case, and I'm a firm
believer now. At home, I only use Soylent for when I have no time to cook, and
need a reasonably healthy/complete meal - if your alternative is going out for
a late-night kebab, or 24-hour fast-food, it's not a hard choice for me =).

~~~
lioeters
That was a great review of the product, demonstrating real-world use case and
benefits. It was fascinating to read, even though I have no personal interest
in Soylent at all as a meal replacement (happily married to a wonderful cook),
I will remember your story next time we go hiking and I'm complaining of the
weight of all the food I'm carrying.

------
matthewrudy
I've never tried Soylent, but I do have to drink Ensure many times a day.

Ensure has a massive market, $billions in annual sales, and medically proven
results.

The medical market is not where Soylent is going right now, But it is massive
and proven.

If they could market to younger, hipper folks who've been prescribed Ensure,
but would spend their own money for something nicer... That'd be me.

(BTW: I finally ordered some huel just now... Really sick of Ensure, will give
that a try)

------
mastarubio
I have been using Soylent for breakfast for roughly 1.5 years and it has been
great. I've lost weight and I feel healthier. I haven't got sick during this
time either from a flu or serious cold. It's a great time saver when used as a
breakfast food and will help save you precious time in the morning before you
go to work. Time that you could spend sleeping rather than stuck in a drive-
through or making something. Works for my busy lifestyle. And I like the fact
that I am getting all those nutrients. While I realize it's not perfect now,
it's nice to know that they are continually trying to improve it with the
different versions. If it's at least half as nutritious as Soylent claims it
is, that's a win in my book. And to think it might actually get to that holy
grail where it's genuinely great for you then that will be something special.
Realistically, this is probably a slow march, but one that I am proud to be a
part of. Mixes great with fruit, peanut butter, honey and other food items too
which I know is healthy for me.

~~~
epmaybe
I too have used soylent for breakfast, for maybe the last 4 or 5 months. And
funnily enough, I've gained more weight! Which was the goal for me, as I'm a
little underweight and needed to stop skipping breakfast.

I've been using their coffiest drink, and kill two birds with one stone. I do
sometimes miss the experience of making my own coffee though, so I may try the
powder instead.

I will say though, at the beginning I was not a fan. Bowel movements changed,
felt weird and bloated, and so on. But it stabilized after a few weeks.

------
VikingCoder
Soylent was fine. I maintained weight, and was eating better, and the food was
easy.

But I'm in a medical weight loss program now, and I'm loving it. It's doctor
supervised, I started out at 400 pounds, and I'm down to 360 after five weeks.
It's medically supervised because I'm in ketosis, which can be very dangerous.
So best to have blood drawn regularly, etc.

But the food is great. You can also get them as your own supplements /
replacements.

[http://www.robard.com/products/](http://www.robard.com/products/)

Right now I'm eating 1,000 calories a day. I'll be going down to 800 calories
per day. And I'm burning about 2,000 calories of my own fat every day (that's
a pound). Again, this is a dangerous diet, but it's medically supervised.

I feel great, I don't feel "hungry" all the time. It's awesome.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Again, this is a dangerous diet, but it's medically supervised.

I'm glad it's working well for you, but I'd just caution that plenty of
quackery is "medically supervised", as were fen-phen
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenfluramine/phentermine))
and the Tuskegee trials.

~~~
VikingCoder
There's a ton of research on reduced calorie diets, and my physician referred
me to this program, and it's run by my hospital system. I meet with
dietitians, physical trainers, social workers, and physicians monthly.

/shrug

I don't really know how to evaluate it much better than that.

~~~
Greenisus
There is a massive amount of info supporting ketogenic diets and fasting. I'd
recommend you look into the Keto Talk and Fasting Talk podcasts and read Jimmy
Moore's books: Keto Clarity and the Complete Guide to Fasting. Also, congrats
on your progress and keep it up! I dropped over 60 pounds (started at 215 lbs,
now at 152 and very lean) doing what you're doing.

But ceejayoz's advice is good advice... always do your own research!

------
md2be
This is a play on the large soft drink beverage companies who are literally
thirsty for companies to replace their soda portfolios. Bai was recentesly
aquifed by Dr Pepper for almost 2 billion. So a 10x return for this round is
certainly possible.

------
shas3
I am one of those people who got horrible nausea eating a couple of batches of
the Soylent bar. I really liked the taste and the nutrition profile. But I
simply cannot tolerate any Soylent products after the episodes of nausea.
There is only one other food (an obscure Indian snack) that ever created a
similar aversion in me. I don't know when, if ever I'll get over the
association of Soylent with nausea in my head. I wish it had never happened so
that I could have continued using their products.

------
joshjkim
What people gloss over about soylent on their way to the oft-repeated "it's
just like slimfast wtf" point is that it's not the specific product that's
interesting/innovative/valuable (it is kinda like slimfast...), it's taking
that product to an entirely new and arguably larger market - I have no idea
many 20 to 30 somethings working in tech were out there buying slimfast 10
years ago, but I'm guessing (and I could be wrong!) it's fewer than the number
of folks who buy soylent today. assuming it can maintain appeal to "hard-
working tech folks", then it's arguable that they can also successfully appeal
to other professionals in other markets who, again, I would guess were not
buying slimfast or other meal/diet drinks. it's all about marketing and
"telling a new story", and i don't mean that in a bad way at all - sure, any
company can quickly copy the ingredients, but they will also have to sell the
same story, which is totally possible but arguably harder to do as well. that
all being said, marketing IMO is only so good of a moat and there's only a few
co's who really dominate relying mostly on it (coke, hermes, nike to name a
few), so i'm not sure the new market and their story is worth this large of an
investment, but who knows it very well could be!

------
Rudism
I've been trying out alternate-day fasting (alternating between 500-600
calorie "fasting" days and normal eating days). Primarily to help me lose a
few pounds, but also in response to all of the recent publicized studies about
how fasting and calorie restriction may have other overall health benefits.

Usually on my 500 calorie days I'll just drink a couple Boosts. I'd like to
consider Soylent as an option for the fasting days as well, but from a cost
perspective it can't really compete with the other alternatives out there
(Boost, Ensure, and various no-name store brands available from places like
Sam's Club and Costco). Liquid Soylent runs between $2.69-$3.09/400kcal,
whereas high protein Boost (which is not even the cheapest option if you're
willing to go with no-name brands) runs at $1.93/400kcal. Going with Soylent
Powder can bring your costs down more in line at $1.54/400kcal, but the added
hassle of having to mix it yourself doesn't make this a very attractive option
in comparison.

I guess what I'm ultimately getting at is, assuming you are just using Soylent
to supplement an otherwise normal diet, I don't understand its appeal over
other less expensive nutritional meal supplements like Boost and Ensure.

------
wakkaflokka
I've been drinking Soylent every day for breakfast for the past year (the
bottles). I find it really convenient, and unlike SlimFast and other shakes,
it doesn't seem overly sweet to me. It gets rid of my hunger with no fuss, no
mess, and no fanfare. Ideally, I could eat a healthy breakfast, but in reality
I know that I'd just be pounding down some cereal bars or something, which
would arguably be worse nutrition-wise than Soylent.

------
datashovel
Because of all the negativity in Soylent threads I always feel obliged to add
my opinion. Soylent has been an extremely positive addition to my life.

------
kingkawn
The idea that nutrition can be boiled down in this way feels that it will
inevitably be missing something severely important that the modeling doesn't
account for. The modelers afterwards will excuse the oversight by saying look
this thing was so small, who would've thought to measure in such and such a
way? Nature.

~~~
dualogy
They just bundle the known "essentials" for actual _survival_ (plus carbs),
based on the _current_ status quo medical majority opinion. However, _thrival_
(the next strival after survival ;) is more subjective and much less well-
studied in terms of: micro-nutrients, co-enzymes, certain protein-chain
configurations, _preformed_ vs substitute-for-own-conversion fat-soluble
vitamins (DAKE) or ascorbate, etc. Another "complete food that you can drink"
would be raw eggs, but in this age and place, that idea freaks folks out a lot
more whereas such soy concoctions don't in the least. So, go for it ;)

------
Animats
Does this mean they're going to make their own product? Currently, Soylent,
the company, is just a marketing operation. Everything else is outsourced.

That's not an unusual strategy for hype-based products. Skyy Vodka and WD-40
were completely outsourced. Skyy Vodka was originally made by Frank-Lin
Distillers Products in San Jose, the company that makes most of the low-end
booze on the West Coast. Frank-Lin buys bulk ethanol by the tank car load
(they have their own railroad sidings), does a little post-processing on the
ethanol, takes in tap water and runs it through a deionzing plant, mixes them,
adds flavoring, and bottles. They have a really fancy automated bottling line
which can handle about a thousand different bottles and can change bottle
types automatically. This is called product differentiation.

~~~
nether
They don't outsource their formula development or testing, which is the
difficult part. You could say they outsource the manufacturing, but that's
common in every industry these days.

------
JohnnyConatus
Did anyone else have this problem: you enjoyed the product at first but after
X number of bottles (like case 2 for me) your body started to react poorly to
it and the taste became repulsive?

Not trying to badmouth soylent, I had a similar experience with a brand of
granola bars.

~~~
ThrowawayR2
I never was particularly a fan of the taste myself and what helped me was
drinking it ice-cold. The colder it is, the less pronounced the flavor is.

------
Balgair
Oh boy, another Soylent thread.... Here is how the comments are going to go:
Half the commenters are going to say Soylent is not supposed to be for every
meal, it's just for when you are too busy to eat. The other half cannot fathom
ever using Soylent because if they are too busy to eat they will quit their
job first, no exceptions. Neither side can bridge the gap, as food culture is
_very_ unique to each person. Let the market sort it all, props to Soylent for
letting that happen and not wringingtheir hands over all of it.

(For the record, I would quit my job before skipping meals; they are actually
that important to me staying sane)

------
hvmonk
Is there any long term effect medical study about this product?

I think our body has organs which releases various gastric juices to digest
the food we eat. It is not only about how much calorie/protein one is
consuming, there are also some useful by-products which helps in overall
functioning of the body as well. A very simple analogy is only drinking fruit
juice instead of eating them raw. We are not taking in fibers which helps in
digestion, slow decomposition and good bowl movement.

I am very skeptical about approaches like this where we measure our food just
in terms of calories, vitamins, protiens and then consume them directly in
that format.

~~~
scarlac
That would be extremely interesting, indeed.

Soylent has said they were looking into having studies done, but I don't
recall what the details were or when it was planned for.

While anecdotal evidence isn't enough, it's fairly common to see people
posting results of their blood work after a few months of Soylent. But I'd
personally love to see some more details and unbiased tests in an "official"
study.

------
costcopizza
Ensure wrapped up in a nice minimalist package.

------
rexreed
There's no saying more true than you are what you eat (or drink). Soylent
drinkers are definitely Soylent people. I prefer a world of flavor, spice, and
variety. I also wonder if it's a coincidence that the funders of the Juicero
(solving a problem no one knew they had for people who clearly have too much
disposable income) are the same as the funders of Soylent. I know there's a
high overlap of HN readers and Soylent drinkers, but I think there's a big
disconnect with the rest of the non-Silicon Valley populace.

------
gavanwoolery
As an anecdotal/tiny success story, I drank Soylent exclusively for a month
and lost 10 pounds - of course, this was by dramatically reducing my calories
and exercising, not by virtue of Soylent alone. That said, I did find Soylent
to be great on two accounts - it is not something you will consume for
fun/pleasure/killing boredom, and it is easy to measure your calorie intake if
you are consuming it solely. Side note: I am not a doctor or nutritionist, do
not take my story as scientifically-grounded advice.

------
muratmutlu
Anyone know the difference between Soylent and a good quality weight gainer
like Reflex Instant Mass Pro?

Nutrition Facts

Reflex Instant Mass Pro [https://www.reflexnutrition.com/instant-mass-
pro/](https://www.reflexnutrition.com/instant-mass-pro/)

Soylent [http://files.soylent.com/pdf/soylent-nutrition-
facts-1-8-en....](http://files.soylent.com/pdf/soylent-nutrition-
facts-1-8-en.pdf)

------
Kattywumpus
I wonder how long it will be until some VC forces the inevitable rebranding of
the Soylent name.

"We need to reach out to a larger demographic with a name that communicates
the value proposition of the product. Liquid Lunch focus-groups well in the
demographic of females 18-30, which is where we see our growth trending in
future..."

I've always liked the cheekiness of the Soylent name and it's really the only
thing that's made me pay the slightest bit of attention to the product.

~~~
domenicd
Serious question: how many people in that demographic group do you think have
ever seen the movie/read the book that it's based on? I'm approaching 30
myself and never heard of the source material before all the news
articles/comment threads on this new powder I was buying.

Which is to say, I don't think the name is as problematic for the real-world
target audience as some people make it out to be.

------
bcaulfield
Coffiest easily exceeded my modest expectations. Quick, easy to digest when
I'm nervous, and the combination of caffeine and theanine is... nice. My diet
is trash, and it's vastly better than not eating or stopping for an Egg
McMuffin at the drive through.

Soylent has gotten me off fast food entirely. I keep a few bottles at home and
at work, so that I can get a meal during my commute that doesn't come from a
drive through.

------
akvadrako
I can't stand reading these posts about Soylent. There is so much irrational
hate backed up by nothing more than incomplete and irrelevant arguments.
People recommend virtually any other product even if it misses half the
qualities of Soylent; things like nuts + fruits, whey protein, ensure, clif
bars or even cooking.

I'm fairly certain it's due to an astroturfing campaign, but I don't know who
would pay for such a thing.

------
mikro
I drink a lot of coffee, and for me the Coffiest product is cheaper and
healthier than your average Starbucks drink. I also really like the taste of
the Cacao drink, which satisfies my sweet tooth whenever I feel like reaching
for a bar of chocolate. I don't necessarily view it as a meal replacement, but
rather an upgrade to unhealthy things I already eat regularly.

------
aomix
I still don't understand the strong reactions Soylent gets on either side.
There's plenty to criticize and to like but reactions to it cluster around it
being the end of the world or solution to all your problems.

I'm a fan of the breakfast Soylent (Coffiest). To me it's the best form of the
Soylent idea.

------
ebbv
If Soylent were a good idea it wouldn't need a $50M funding round at this
point. People know about it. Most people I know who've tried it after a while
didn't like it any more and abandoned it.

And now they've brought out flavors, basically turning it into an expensive
meal replacement. It's ridiculous.

------
venture_lol
Live a restrictive life, careful, watching, planning and get life expectancy
of 85yrs ? A bad turn of luck could be the end is right around the corner

Live a wild debauched, taste everything, free for all, no care whatsoever and
get a life expectancy of: 80yrs? A somewhat lucky draw could see you beyond 90

Hard choices :)

------
awl130
I'm reserving judgement until I know exactly how Soylent affects our
microbiome. This study seems to just have gotten started:
[https://mycrobes.berkeley.edu/the-study/](https://mycrobes.berkeley.edu/the-
study/)

------
eddieone
As a person who has researched Soylent, I would not describe it as cheap or
healthy. Most of the people with opposing opinions seem to think it's a magic
weight loss supplement. In reality, the properties that cause weight loss seem
to be the low quality ingredients.

------
epmaybe
One thing I'm curious about: do liquid diet like Soylent change the brush
border in our intestines in an appreciable way? If I went completely soylent
for a few months, and then tried to eat something more...raw, would there be
any changes in digestion?

------
sebringj
"Everything the body needs..." \- the Matrix next we get implantable nutrient
packs that last for a year. Hey, YCombinator idea? Go fund that. (this might
classify as a troll post as its not particularly relevant but just had to,
sorry)

------
sachinag
If Forerunner didn't participate in this, then Soylent doesn't have a chance.
I'd trust Forerunner over GV (or anyone) on a new consumer brand - and that's
what Soylent is, going up against everything from Hint water to Ensure.

------
arzt
I'm curious about the naming choice as the end of the movie with Heston
reveals that eating "Soylent Green" is a form of cannibalism. Does the term
"Soylent" signify something outside of the movie?

~~~
luhn
No, the name is directly referencing the movie. It's a tongue-in-cheek and
self-deprecating, much in the spirit of programming culture.

~~~
jcheng
It's not, it's referencing the book that the (apparently very different) movie
is loosely inspired by. [https://faq.soylent.com/hc/en-
us/articles/201541809-Why-is-i...](https://faq.soylent.com/hc/en-
us/articles/201541809-Why-is-it-named-Soylent-)

~~~
dragonwriter
Given that Soylent in the book is an apparently commercially successful
product that rides the wave of a Malthusian catastrophe, it's still an odd
choice (or a revealing Freudian slip) given their early hype about solving
world hunger.

------
zenkat
Does anyone know the valuation of the company? And more importantly, what
justifies that valuation? I have trouble believing that the meal replacement
market is all that lucrative.

------
ceejay
I used to get annoyed by all the negativity Soylent received from people. Now
I just get amused by it. Soylent has been nothing but a positive addition to
my life.

------
skdotdan
The future is food that tastes and feels like real food but with the nutrients
that your genetics and physical conditions tell that you should eat. One
day...

------
grandalf
I've been wanting to try Soylent but have not done so b/c of the price. Is
there an HN promo code or something? I'd try it for a full month.

~~~
andrewmunsell
Soylent offers 50% off if you "refer a friend", so you can get it for ~$16.

[http://soy.lt/r/bbyysMpsFN](http://soy.lt/r/bbyysMpsFN)

Note, though this is a "referral link", I do not get anything out of it, but
they do donate to World Food Program USA:
[https://www.soylent.com/refer/](https://www.soylent.com/refer/)

~~~
grandalf
Thanks :) Just ordered some.

------
intrasight
How is Soylent better than buying a quality blender and fresh veggies and
protein powder and coconut oil? Or is for folks who live in a food desert?

------
theprop
The best food advice I've read: don't eat or drink anything that humans
haven't been eating or drinking for at least 500 years.

------
vthallam
Off topic, but have anyone tried 'Soylent Coffiest'? How do you like it for
breakfast + coffee replacement for few days a week?

~~~
dmerrick
I couldn't stand it. It tasted bitter and fake to me. I have colleagues who
swear by it though.

------
b1gtuna
Congratulations.

I have been drinking Soylent 12 bottles a month. This alone has freed me up
from thinking about what to eat for lunch.

------
mtw
Does anyone know of any clinical trials showing health benefits of Soylent? or
adverse health consequences?

------
rubyfan
Have they figured out the vile angry flatulence problem?

------
vernie
Maybe... you're not as busy as you believe you are?

------
zzzzzzzza
personally I love soylent. Curious what the hard numbers are on sales
growth/units shipped per month.

------
aanet
Soylent and Juicero

Rather surprised that nobody, as yet, has made a connection between Soylent
and Juicero.

* 1st: Juicing & Nutrition \- There’s very little evidence that liquid food / juicing has any benefits for most adults. Most nutritionists worth their salt will advise _against_ juicing. Juicero (and other juice makers) take perfectly good,healthy, nutrient-rich fruits and vegetables and make them _less healthy_. Ditto for Soylent. Crushing natural foods (vegetables, fruits, any other in their natural form) together to seek out their nutrients, and reconstituting them in powder/liquid form is, by any other fancy name, a juice. “The skin on an apple, the seeds in raspberries and the membranes that hold orange segments together — they are all good for you. That is where most of the fiber, as well as many of the antioxidants, phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals are hiding. Fiber is good for your gut; it fills you up and slows the absorption of the sugars you eat, resulting in smaller spikes in insulin. When your body can no longer keep up with your need for insulin, Type 2 diabetes can develop.” [1]

\- I wonder if people who see the benefits of Soylent/juicing have read
Michael Pollan or Marion Nestle. See [1], [2], [3]

* 2nd: Silicon Valley and investments Both Soylent and Juicero are funded by marquee investors. Here’s a brief list for Juicero (Total $118M raised) [4] GV (nee Google Ventures) KPCB Abstract Campbell Soup Thrive Capital

Here’s for Soylent (Total $70M raised):[5] GV (nee Google Ventures) A16Z Tao
Capital Index Ventures YC Lerner Hippeau Initialized Capital

What do these have in common? Apart from being in the food business? It is the
_Food-as-a-Service_ business model. That is the essential ingredient (no pun)
of the business, not the nutrients per se.

In effect, both Soylent and Juicero are products targeted towards high
disposable income, busy professionals who want convenience, and perhaps the
glow of “save the world from hunger”. (whatever that means). Any health
benefits are inconsequential at best in the grand scheme of things.

If you value your nutrition and health, you are far better off relying on the
tried-and-tested advice from Michael Pollan: Eat Food, Not Too Much, Mostly
Plants.

All other rationalization of time/effort/nutritional benefit of
Soylent/Juicero in “save what world from hunger” is, well, just plain old
rationalization by any other name.

[1] [People think juice is good for them. They’re wrong. - The Washington
Post]([https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/04/26/...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/04/26/people-
think-juice-is-good-for-them-theyre-wrong/)) [2] [Books | Michael
Pollan]([http://michaelpollan.com/books/](http://michaelpollan.com/books/))
[3] [Marion Nestle -
Wikipedia]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Nestle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Nestle))
[4]
[https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/juicero/investors](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/juicero/investors)
[5] [https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/soylent-
corporation#...](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/soylent-
corporation#/entity)

------
catenthusiast
Nerds will buy anything if trendy Silicon Valley ‘thought leaders’ endorse it.

------
accountyaccount
Aside from brand, how does soylent differ from ensure?

~~~
pyrophane
There isn't an Ensure product that is formulated similarly to Soylent at the
moment. Ensure has two products with a similar calorie count compared to
Soylent (Ensure 350g vs Soylent 400g). Here's how they break down:

Soylent Drink: 400cal, 21g fat, 20g protein, 36g total carb. 9g sugar.

Ensure Plus: 350cal, 11g fat, 13g protein, 57g carb. 22g sugar.

Ensure Enlive: 250cal, 11g fat, 20g protein, 45g carb. 22g sugar.

As you can see, Soylent has more fat, which provides 9 cal/gram compared to
4cal/gram from carb/protein. This allows it to hit its calorie goal without
adding nearly as many carbs and sugars.

~~~
accountyaccount
Interesting. Thank you for the detailed breakdown.

------
maverick_iceman
Don't know why GV would invest in Soylent after so much fiasco. Seems like
they earn money so easily that they are content to throw it away.

------
Questron
Weird. You need food during an eight hour shift?

~~~
malnourish
Lots of people prefer eating smaller servings more frequently, some people
need a snack to get through the day. Yet others have varying schedules that
cause may fall between meals in a way that makes them hungry.

~~~
protomyth
Knew a weight lifter that was doing 5 to 8 small meals per day. She was pretty
darn fit. I wonder if anyone has done an actual study on the subject?

~~~
toomanybeersies
Here's a meta-study that claims possible positive effects for small, frequent
meals:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26024494](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26024494)

On the side bar there's a bunch more.

------
CPLX
That's quite a chunk of change for rebranding SlimFast for the urban
millennial set. I wonder how many other eight figure venture-fundable concepts
could be exploited by lurking in the grocery store aisles with a label maker.

~~~
Karunamon
You don't quite understand what the deal with Soylent is.

You couldn't live on SlimFast if you had to. It's an appetite suppressant/meal
replacement for short term use, given that it's not nutritionally balanced.

Neither is it similar to Ensure or most other meal replacement drinks for the
same reasons. They're usually absolutely loaded with fast, low-index sugars
that'll spike your blood sugar.

Basically, it's the food equivalent of water. Neutral, nutritious, has what
your body needs and nothing more. The carb source they're using is high-GI,
meaning it won't cause that spike. The idea being that when you CBA'd to cook,
when you'd normally run to the local burger joint's drivethru, you shake up a
glass of this stuff, and you're back to doing whatever you're doing for
cheaper (about $3 a meal) and in less time.

Basically, it hits all of the right notes that most of the on-the-shelf
competitors do not. It's relatively cheap, it keeps a long time, it's actually
good for you, it's convenient as food could ever possibly be.

I personally love the stuff.

~~~
MiddleEndian
It was hard to find the right nutrition data, but:

Slim Fast:

[http://www.livestrong.com/article/125563-slim-
fast/](http://www.livestrong.com/article/125563-slim-fast/)

[http://www.fathead-movie.com/images/slimfast.png](http://www.fathead-
movie.com/images/slimfast.png)

[https://tamafitness.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/shakeology_v...](https://tamafitness.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/shakeology_vs_slimfast.jpg)

Sounds like you could probably survive entirely on Slim Fast. It's got Iron
(which the original Soylent didn't have), Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin B,
Vitamin D, and Iodine, and a bunch of other micronutrients. You probably
wouldn't have a great time but I doubt you would on a Soylent-only diet
either.

Solyent doesn't seem to differ much:

[http://files.soylent.com/pdf/soylent-drink-nutrition-
facts-e...](http://files.soylent.com/pdf/soylent-drink-nutrition-facts-en.pdf)

~~~
Karunamon
You overlooked the calories: 180 in Slimfast, 400 in Solyent. And that's just
the premade drink. One pouch of the powder is a flat 2000, something I don't
think Slimfast even has an answer for. Also, pay attention to the ingredient
list: Milk, water, sugar, in that order.

Slimfast is a diet drink as the name implies, while Soylent is a meal
replacement. If you wanted to get a reasonable (non-starvation) amount of
calories from Slimfast to live on it and it alone, Soylent then wins on
balance and cost.

~~~
MiddleEndian
You'd have to drink more slimfast, sure, but that challenges the assertion
that you cannot survive entirely on SlimFast.

They also seem to have a protein shake drink
[http://d8m5oga7foiu.cloudfront.net/wp-
content/uploads/2016/1...](http://d8m5oga7foiu.cloudfront.net/wp-
content/uploads/2016/11/NF-50012-2-AdvStrawberry.jpg) which seems similar but
obviously lower in calories, better protein:carb ratio though. They also seem
to sell some powder you can mix with milk, presumably you could put more than
one scoop in.

Not saying Solyent doesn't work for you and I don't want to sound like I'm
promoting Slimfast. It's just not the first or only meal replacement shake.

------
moat
I feel like I'm the only who has ever read the nutrition facts. It's a garbage
product full of ingredients I wouldn't aim to put in my body. Love the idea of
it all, just not the science behind it.

~~~
skciva
Can you elaborate a bit? What exactly is garbage about the ingredients?

~~~
moat
First off ingredients on labels are listed in order of most prevalent to
least. So what stands out specifically is the unhealthy oils. Sunflower and
canola. I'm mobile or I would paste links, but read up on them. Horrible omega
ratios, and sketchy by-products are usually found in them (hopefully Soylent
at least has quality versions of this).

Also maltodextrin is always one of the main ingredients. Super high gi, and no
nutritional value.

~~~
ajmurmann
The maltodextrin is needed to bind the oil into a powder.

~~~
snowpanda
It's only needed if you want to drink soylent.

------
pinaceae
Soylent - We've put SlimFast on the Internet.

And this after JuiceBro. Amazing.

------
metaphorm
I feel like more people should read this book

In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan

[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/315425.In_Defense_of_Food](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/315425.In_Defense_of_Food)

------
joering2
Serious question -- do they have an FDA approval?? Can they produce and sell
it without it?

Recently learnt about some Amish selling home made honey without FDA approval;
now awaiting trial on a 20 years jail charge.

~~~
protomyth
Can you point to that story? I know some got caught putting "cures cancer" on
the label and that is a big no-no.

~~~
joering2
Yes that was the one. He had a client cliaming she got cancer free.

[http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-02-23-amish-farmer-
facing-68...](http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-02-23-amish-farmer-
facing-68-years-in-federal-prison-for-making-homemade-products.html)

~~~
protomyth
Yeah, that's a whole different thing. The FDA is a bit nasty to anyone
claiming any health benefit without a study. Ask the cereal companies, they
got sued quite a lot. Soylent and others just have to put labels on the food
and that can be done without some prior approval.

The killer FDA rule that is going to impact a lot of people goes effective for
enforcement on May 5.

