
What if the Secret to Success Is Failure? - wallflower
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/what-if-the-secret-to-success-is-failure.html?hp
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6ren
Currently reading "Learned Optimism", and some thoughts on that book:

A causal explanation for failure like "I am stupid" is pessimistic and
hopeless, because it is both permanent (stupidity doesn't change) and
universal (it affects everything you do, and is not confined to the specific
thing you failed at nor even to the type of that task). A belief in this
causal explanation leads you to believe that next time you attempt this task,
you will also fail (because the reason for failure - stupidity - is still
there); and that if you attempt any other task requiring intelligence you will
will also fail (because stupidity undermines all of them).

In contrast, a causal explanation like "I wasn't trying hard" is optimistic
and hopeful, because it is not permanent (you can try harder) and it's
confined to that particular attempt (it's not about an unchangeable trait, but
a one-off).

It seems to me that hope and optimism, when personal (about yourself), really
put the responsibility on you. They _blame_ you - but because it's in a way
you can do something about, they are energizing.

 _Note:_ the book also says that blaming external circumstances and other
people, instead of yourself, is an "optimistic" causal explanation - but
"hopeful" is only the other two, non-permanence and non-universal. It also
expresses misgivings about the irresponsibility of blaming external factors.

singlepage: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/what-if-the-
secre...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/what-if-the-secret-to-
success-is-failure.html?hp=&pagewanted=all)

~~~
noonespecial
I prefer "I didn'd know enough". I 'm not a slacker who doesn't try or a
simpleton who can't learn, I just didn't have all the facts this time around.
I will next time.

~~~
epo
Is this something you have said to yourself repeatedly or a pre-prepared cop-
out for the next time you fail?

~~~
noonespecial
I say it to myself precisely to avoid "copping out" or being discouraged. A
reminder that there are things to learn from each failure.

Kind of like fear.. the mind-killer.. little death, yadda yadda.

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americandesi333
The article also reveals that as Americans now that our country has evolved
over past around 300 years of democracy, there is a sense of 'entitlement'
that has come with it.

This entitlement is in opposition to fostering curiosity and risk taking
mentality. People that feel they are entitled to have food, shelter and
clothing will never work creatively towards it and will be reluctant in taking
risks or understanding failure.

This needs to be fostered at a young age, when kids should be working on
projects and understanding the value of resilience instead of having things
handed down to them. I came to this country at a young age and had to fend for
myself. Thats when I learned the real meaning of 'resilience'.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
When I look at various techniques used in special forces training in the
United States -- waterboarding, hypothermia, near-drowning, psychological
torutre, etc -- I'm left with the counter-intuitive observation that taking
stuff away from people and making life really tough on them has a tendency to
make them much more able to handle all the "normal" stuff that many times
tangles up the rest of us.

There might be something there which these schools could harvest.

~~~
scott_s
The primary "technique" that special forces training uses is just simple
exhaustion. It's humbling how much being exhausted can make you re-asses your
priorities - and even if you _don't_ quit, you know that you _wanted_ to.
Being that exhausted and knowing that rest is nowhere near in your future can
be psychologically devastating. The things you listed are probably used, but
they're not the primary training method.

I have never been in the military, but I've training Brazilian jiu-jitsu and
some mixed martial arts for many years now. Practices can be tough.

~~~
zwischenzug
s/special forces training uses/having children works on you/

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mathattack
This is a Different spin than "embrace failure like silicon valley." It is
about developing resilience. Recovering from failure can't be taught to kids
protected from it.

I recall a conversation post-graduation with a (the?) top student from my high
school. He naturally assumed that every parent intervenes on their kids
grades, and couldn't believe mine never did. Perhaps this is why the
classmates who had the most professional success were the workaholics not
quite at the valedictorian level who used bad grades as motivation.

And to those complaining of cliches.... At least they didn't quote the
marshmallow story.

~~~
libraryatnight
Failure is also a pretty good indicator that you're trying to do things.
That's not to say there aren't success stories where someone tried something,
got lucky, and it went off from the very start. I just mean that, in my own
personal experience, I wasted a lot of time waiting for something to happen.

Once you actually start trying out ideas and trying to do something, you often
also start encountering failures - big and small- and I try not to take it as
a bad thing, but rather as a lesson in whatever it was I was doing and also as
a personal reminder that "hey, I had an idea and I ran with it and worked at
it. I tried to do something, let's try again or work harder at a different
idea."

I really identify with your top student comment, thanks for sharing.

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littlegiantcap
Well if you aren't failing you're not trying. I think we as Americans, I can't
speak to any sort of European or other experience, have grown up with this
attitude that makes us very afraid of putting ourselves into situations where
we could potentially fail. For instance, a few months back when I began
working on my startup when I would tell people about it one of the biggest
responses I would get is "I wish I had the guts to try and do something like
this" or "Aren't you afraid".

One of the best quotes I've ever heard about failure comes from the Teddy
Roosevelt "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs,
even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who
neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows
not victory nor defeat."

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aridiculous
If this piece reveals anything about the larger educational picture, perhaps
it's that the pendulum is swinging back to more austere forms of upbringing.

It is peculiar, however, that the austerity would be growing out from Positive
Psychology, which traditionally was more laid back and unrestricted. This
mash-up of seemingly opposite worldviews makes sense if you consider the trend
of the last 20 or 30 years to reconcile differences in cultural. I invite you
to read David Brook's Bobos in Paradise for an incredibly lucid account of the
convergence of Bohemia and Bourgeois values in the last few decades.

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ShabbyDoo
The article doesn't question the poorer school's choice of measured outcome --
college graduation. Does becoming a college graduate correlate well with a
good life outcome, or do the skills required to graduate from college (both
academic and character-related) lead to success and/or happiness?

~~~
cpr
Even more, 'a stable career' as the supposedly positive outcome seems like a
rather '50s concept these days.

I think what people are going to be learning the hard way in the near future
that 'careers' are over, and 'making value for which someone will pay you' is
the only way forward. Of course, that's much more nebulous to both target and
to measure, but that doesn't change the reality of the current situation.

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elliottcarlson
A while back I read a book called Geography of Bliss [1] which covers the
authors attempt to find the happiest country in the world (with statistics etc
to back it up) and find out what makes it such a happy place. One of the
countries covered is Iceland, and the author explores Iceland's notion that
you are a failure if you have not experienced failure for yourself. There is
(supposedly - since I am taking this knowledge from a book and not first hand
experience) no societal qualms about failing at something, and it is highly
encouraged to try and find yourself and what you want to do in life - whether
you succeed or not. I think having this mentality allows people to try without
worrying about how society might perceive them - not that there aren't risk
takers out there (obviously this forum is a grand example of plenty of those
people), but you also have a big part of society who would look down on
failure, even if it's their own kids, and instead of encouraging them, they
tell them they have to succeed at everything they do.

Failure is an option, but do what you can to prevent failure. If you've
failed, just learn from your experience and let it make you stronger for the
future.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Bliss-Grumps-Search-
Happiest...](http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Bliss-Grumps-Search-
Happiest/dp/0446580260)

~~~
bjork
Ask the uk or the netherlands if they are happy with iceland failing as a
nation.

~~~
jisaacstone
Not a fair accusation and out of place as well.

Iceland did not "fail as a nation." Simply the financial sector was too large
a percentage of the economy. When the financial sector collapsed (as it did in
the UK as I recall) so did the economy.

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jamespitts
Fantastic article.

Here's a useful take-away: Christopher Peterson's set of strengths that are
especially likely to predict life satisfaction and high achievement:

zest grit self-control social intelligence gratitude optimism curiosity

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davidwparker
Single page, for convenience:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/what-if-the-
secre...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/what-if-the-secret-to-
success-is-failure.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all)

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schiptsov
9 pages of crap to mention The Marshmallow Test, The Never Give Up principle,
fruits of Delayed Gratification and importance of Self Control, things that
every amateur sportsman or musician have learnt after trying to achieve a mere
average level? ^_^

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dkrich
I think failure can be extremely valuable on the path to success, provided you
learn from your mistakes. But very often people erroneously assign blame or
put too much weight on the wrong causes for the failure, and that leaves them
no more likely to succeed.

If something doesn't pan out, it is very important to make an honest
assessment of why the failure occurred, so the next time around you can make
the necessary changes. Doing this is also likely to increase your confidence.

That said, I did find the article interesting because I have always wondered
about the incentive system in place in our education system. I think too many
parents and teachers put WAY too much emphasis on grades, test scores, and
constantly feel compelled to compare performance with other students. To me I
am tempted to believe that the most important traits in anybody are enthusiasm
and optimism for one thing. What thing? It doesn't really matter. I would much
rather see a kid who is enthusiastic about doing something they believe in
than obsessively studying to outperform their peers so they can get their
ticket punched to move on to the next round and repeat the process.

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huherto
"The Learned Optimism" book is great. I purchased it because somebody here
recommended it. I wish I could give copies to all my friends.

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tsieling
Is this meme still going around? zzzz. It's not about failure, it's about
detecting it and learning from it. Lionizing failure is a feature of an
industry so desperate for the next buzz concept to promote that it's kind of
embarrassing.

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rads
The tape installations in the photos are so cool. I looked up the designer,
Stephen Doyle. His firm has an impressive portfolio:
<http://doylepartners.com/>

Some of my favorites:

<http://doylepartners.com/project/hypertext/index.html>

<http://doylepartners.com/project/david_byrne/index.html>

<http://doylepartners.com/project/thinking_fingers/index.html>

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MarkMc
Here's something I don't understand: One reason for introducing the KIPP
'character report' was that only 33% of their students were graduating from
college. But the following article from 2009 says that "KIPP’s [college
graduation] rate so far has been over 90%":
<http://www.economist.com/node/13938869>

So has the focus on character been enormously successful? If so, why not
mention that in the New York Times piece?

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Tichy
I guess it takes true grit to read through nine pages of that, which I
unfortunately do not possess :-(

Somebody should make a business out of shrinking NYT articles.

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EREFUNDO
Failures and mistakes are good if they are numerous and quick, preferably not
committing the same ones over and over again. You learn faster and move on
this way. The worst kinds of mistakes are the protracted ones. Sometimes it
takes too long and the damage is irreversible. The key is keeping an open mind
and always be vigilant. Listen to those around you and ask for advice.

~~~
nickfromseattle
This. I've recently realized I learn best by minimizing consequences and
failing quick. I think it comes down to being able to separate critique from
my feelings and also assessing why I didn't get what I wanted, and applying
what I've learned to get what I want next time.

I'm sales for a new b2b saas startup with no sales background, but I'm great
with people and I can handle cold calling and rejection. I fail all the time,
I'm not able to get a response from first contact, I lose contact after a
couple emails, on the phone/in person I cant answer a technical question, I
provided poor customer service, I went down on price to soon, I sold features
not benefits, etc.

The point is, every time I'm successful, I get a response from a cold email,
or move a customer further down the pipe towards a sale I take a mental note
and also write in my CRM. I'm constantly evolving my pitch as my product and
industry knowledge grow. There are dozens of thousands of potential customers
so my risk is minimized because any mistake will be between me and them only,
and I'm able to fail fast by reaching out to a lot of potential customers.

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amirkhella
I personally believe that the secret to success is doing. Whether I am failing
or succeeding, I keep doing and improving what I am doing.

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jnw2
Would the founders of a startup who are willing to pivot as needed get
something lower than the highest possible grit score?

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jawns
... then I should be way more successful than I am. :)

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ginzasparrow
If the secret to success is failure, NYTimes should be the #1 newspaper on the
planet.

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michaelochurch
_On the discussion boards of UrbanBaby.com, worked-up moms from the Upper East
Side argue over whether Riverdale sends enough seniors to Harvard, Yale and
Princeton to be considered truly “TT” (top-tier, in UrbanBabyese), or whether
it is more accurately labeled “2T” (second-tier)_

Xoxohth posters are now having kids?

