

Show HN: Laminated Bus Schedules - ChrisNorstrom
http://www.chrisnorstrom.com/2011/07/creation-laminated-bus-stop-schedules-my-weekend-experiment/

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almost
Well done for doing something to make the world around you a little better. If
only everyone did little things like this how much better the world would be.

Im very supprised the bus companies dont do tgis though! Here in the UK nearly
all bus stops have the schedules displayed, its very common to see route maps
though. I would imagine the bus system wpuld be next to useless without them!

Here in brighton we even have electronic signs which show the time to the next
bus, theyre pretty useful!

~~~
AndrewDucker
Here in Edinburgh I can get the bus times on my phone - there are iOs and
Android apps, plus a mobile and desktop website.

<http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/>

It's incredibly handy, particularly as there are two bus stops I can take to
get me to work, so I check the times as I'm leaving home and head to the one
that's coming sooner.

~~~
almost
That sounds very useful. Theres a not-very-good web interface here. I keep
meaning to write a scraper and use it to present the data in a more web and
people friendly form.

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aw3c2
All over Germany the companies do this. Almost always there is also a network
map and other information. I am flabbergasted at the state of public transport
in your vicinity. How were you supposed to use it conveniently without that
information prominently displayed.

~~~
eru
Though inexplicable, there's actually a law dating from 1934 against long
distance travel by bus on a regular schedule in Germany.

~~~
antiterra
I don't know about inexplicable. A bit of research shows that it was intended
to favor the development of rail and possibly automobiles (Hitler's Volkswagen
project was declared in 1933.) It appears it also allowed for an exception
when the bus service was a substantial or significant improvement (
_wesentliche Verbesserung_ ) and, just recently, a young business called
Yourbus ( _DeinBus_ ) emerged successfully from the court system with a permit
because a lower price counted as a significant improvement.

edit: It occurred to me that it was possible what you found inexplicable was
why the law was still on the books. It seems from Deutsche Bahn AG's
opposition to Yourbus, that interests such as the (now privatized) state rail
and other industries would simply lobby for an advantageous status quo.
Especially so, considering that Deutsche Bahn operates its own bus service,
and has for a while, in a comfortable niche carved out from and protected by
that very law.

~~~
eru
> It occurred to me that it was possible what you found inexplicable was why
> the law was still on the books.

Yes. Or more: That the lobbyists carry so much weight, where the public
interest is very clearly to have more competition.

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petercooper
An interesting little project! I often wonder how different neighborhoods
would be if people did beneficial things like this routinely without either
relying on, or being held back by, civic institutions or businesses.

For example, the UK had a "big freeze" in November and December of last year.
I cleared the ice from the sidewalk outside our house and kept it salted. No-
one else on the walk into town did and it was a death-trap walk. If everyone
else had spent 10 minutes a day doing their bit, walking around would have
remained pleasant.

~~~
eru
In Germany you would be legally obliged to keep the pavement outside your
house ice and snow free.

~~~
iaskwhy
South European here (thus I have no idea what it's like to deal with ice)! So
what happens if you go on holidays for a couple of days?

~~~
fhars
That's your problem, should have planned better.

~~~
iaskwhy
I don't get it. Are you the owner of the sidewalk?

~~~
fhars
No, but just like you have to pay property taxes, you have to keep the
sidewalk adjacent to your lot free of ice and snow.

~~~
iaskwhy
I guess it would never work like that around here...

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terhechte
Great Idea. These kind of laminated bus schedules are normal all over Germany,
so it's easy here to find the right bus and to understand where it goes. But
whenever I'm in the states (and that's rather frequently) I'm always grateful
about Google Maps on my iPhone because it actually gives me a chance to use
U.S public transit. Otherwise I'd probably end up in dark nowhere and never
ever get back home since there is no information whatsoever at the bus stops.

I was always wondering why you guys had no maps at the bus stops.

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tnorthcutt
Great project. Hopefully you're able to collaborate with the metro department
to get more stuff like this done.

 _The swagging tool and bolt cutter cost me $42.37 but it’s ok I returned them
later._

I was really disappointed to read this.

~~~
icebraining
Me too, I thought tool libraries were common in the 'States? Luckily he didn't
have to pay to use them only for a couple of hours.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
What's a tool library? If it were something that gets damaged in use then yes
I'd buy it, but a swagging tool can't get dull, and the bolt cutters I used to
cut cable wire like butter didn't dull either. The closet entrepreneur within
me would never allow myself to buy a tool I only need to use once. Gotta make
little cuts to save money here and there, capitalist style.

~~~
icebraining
>What's a tool library?

A library, for tools instead of books. Like Vancouver's:
[http://www.granvilleonline.ca/home-and-
garden/home/vancouver...](http://www.granvilleonline.ca/home-and-
garden/home/vancouver-tool-library-takes-storage-problem-out-home-renovations)

------
sschueller
In Switzerland every stop has something like this posted:
[http://online.fahrplaninfo.zvv.ch/pdf/01/ah_01011a/ah_01011a...](http://online.fahrplaninfo.zvv.ch/pdf/01/ah_01011a/ah_01011a_j11_a_03039.pdf)

Sometimes there is even an electronic sign which states how many minutes until
the next bus,tram,train etc.

Also almost all have several of these inside to tell you where you are:
[http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3077018448_0b2162659f.jp...](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3077018448_0b2162659f.jpg)

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mmatey
Nice project! Just needs a little bit of design and color?

Color coding the North bound and South bound grids (From what I can see?)
would be helpful.

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ben1040
I saw this post and thought "Man, I should do this in my town," because my
local transit authority makes no effort at making it easy for people to take
the bus.

Then I looked at the route names/numbers and realized you _are_ in my town!
Thank you for making my part of the world better.

My coworkers and I were just talking about how difficult it is to navigate the
public transit system here if you don't have a smartphone with Google Transit.

St. Louis is not like Chicago, NYC, or SF where people of all walks of life
take public transit to work, either because it's highly convenient or because
parking costs more than their car payment. Transit here is not convenient and
the people who rely on the bus here are the ones who can't afford a smartphone
with Google Transit, let alone a car payment.

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jshort
As a student at the University of Waterloo taking the bus is standard. You are
able to text the bus stop number to the bus company number and then it replies
with when the next 3 (ish) buses are coming. I wish you were able to find out
more information then just when the next few buses are coming like when is a
bus coming at 4 o'clock, or some real time data about buses running late. No
smartphone is required which is a bonus as it is for public transit, and on a
side note I like that you can text Google and get search results texted back
to you.

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rmason
Great idea but what about graffiti? In most major East coast cities those
schedules wouldn't be around for two weeks before getting tagged.

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cdcarter
This is a fantastic idea, my city has similarly bad bus schedule postings. I'd
love to see some usability studies on what a bus schedule should look like
though. Usually the actual schedule design is just as awful as the way it is
posted.

Also, using wire rope may have been a bit overkill, but I always support
people informing the world of swaging tools.

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petercooper
I just remembered a project along similar lines to this. A guy created a
'guerrilla' sign for a freeway in LA to reduce confusion amongst drivers:
[http://www.good.is/post/the-fake-freeway-sign-that-
became-a-...](http://www.good.is/post/the-fake-freeway-sign-that-became-a-
real-public-service/)

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
Yes, I remember him. He's my hero.

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warwick
Are you planning on maintaining these? In my city the route timings change
depending on school schedules and time of year, so the transit schedule's that
are posted at stops have to be swapped out three or four times a year.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
My mom works at Metro, for popular routes the schedules don't change for years
and years.

~~~
warwick
That's superb then. My big concern for any project like this is that
maintenance and upkeep costs end up outstripping the initial layout by a
considerable amount.

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djangodjango
Next step: Get the buses to actually follow the schedules.

~~~
viraptor
I think that's pretty much unrealistic, considering buses are affected by
things out of driver's control. However you can still improve the situation by
tracking the buses and providing a live estimation instead of the static
schedule.

So, next step: get the schedules to follow the buses?

~~~
fhars
I expect busses to be mostly on time, and most of the time they are. It's not
that the evening rush hour comes as a surprise every day, so it can be
accomodated in the schedule. Of course, on really dense lines, time tables may
just look like

    
    
      16  5 minutes
      17  all 3 to 5 minutes
      18  all 5 to 7 minutes
      19  08 18 28 38 48 58
      ...
    

And on the main bus stops there are the real time displays you want:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_bellin/5305848773/>

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frankdenbow
Cool! In NYC at many stops this is already there, but I can see how this is
useful outside of those places.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
Oh, I'm curious, are they laminated and attached like mine or are they
different. How did they do it?

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Mz
I would be really interested to see some kind of follow-up data on this in
terms of did it actually promote bus use. I love this but I wonder if it
genuinely accomplished something.

EDIT: Or I would also be interested if someone posted comparison data for
places that already have this versus those that don't. I am seeing some
anecdotal comments here that some places already do this "officially" rather
than as a guerrilla tactic.

~~~
ChrisNorstrom
The KNOWN immediate benefit is financial and environmental. People won't need
to take as many bus schedules and the company won't need to waste money
printing as many.

~~~
Mz
Thank you. That had not occurred to me.

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jsavimbi
Very nice; I like it.

In Boston, they'd send a fella 'round to cut your schedules down. Public
workers don't like being shown up.

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4J7z0Fgt63dTZbs
...if you think laminating is worth $10 per each sleeve, you should probably
acquire the skill for yourself - it will pay for itself in long term. descent
laminator costs <50 USD.

