
Where Is Nokia Now? - rbanffy
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-06-29/they-built-the-first-phone-you-loved-where-in-the-world-is-nokia-now
======
wolfspider
My paranoid brain often thought that Microsoft not only acquired their stake
in Nokia for Windows phones but also to control some aspects of Qt as it was
quickly unloaded from Nokia after Microsoft entered the picture. A sort of
power play which we all saw later on with Xamarin without the feel-good
outcome that Xamarin eventually had. Qt Creator is a joy to work with for open
source software in my opinion for even just non-Qt projects. Back then I was
using it on my BSD desktop before switching to XCode for vanilla C++ projects.
Anyhow, it was extremely portable I could code with MinGW on Windows and then
move the same project to BSD and then move it into XCode with minor changes. I
would imagine Nokia at that time would seem extremely unique to Microsoft for
just Qt alone. Just some food for thought...I still have Qt built ANGLE libs
in my GH repo I think. Yeah, it was also an OpenGL ES 2 emulator that ran on
DirectX which you could optionally run Qt Creator on top of and I remember
Nokia's name was all over it. It was possible to do cross-platform Windows and
Android code this way with just a JNI wrapper. It was a hot mess and I loved
it! Here are a couple links that back up this strange tale:

[https://wiki.qt.io/Qt_5_on_Windows_ANGLE_and_OpenGL](https://wiki.qt.io/Qt_5_on_Windows_ANGLE_and_OpenGL)

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_(software)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_\(software\))

~~~
pjmlp
Even in 2017, with several uses across Symbian, Blackberry, Ubuntu and Jolla
SDKs, Qt is lacking in regards to mobile OS API support.

Unless one is doing GUI apps required without integration with OS APIs or
their native UIs, replicating everything in QML (C++ widgets are not
supported) and writting JNI and Objective-C++ wrappers isn't that much fun.

Xamarin gets more love from app developers, because even before Microsoft's
acquisition they had a whole set of teams dedicated to doing nothing else
other than achieving parity with iOS and Android native APIs.

------
wwweston
Sometimes when I'm in the mood for a little self-congratulation, I look back
on a blog piece I wrote shortly after the Burning Platform memo and subsequent
move towards Windows Phone:

[http://weston.canncentral.org/writing/index.php?2011/02/18/0...](http://weston.canncentral.org/writing/index.php?2011/02/18/00:00/Why-
Nokia-is-Doomed)

I was pretty ignorant of the rest of Nokia's business outside of mobile
devices, and there are some particulars that differed a bit, but I think I
called basic trajectory they traced in the mobile market from that point
pretty well: premier hardware maker loses lead in market shift, turns to
Microsoft for software partnership, finds itself _still_ struggling in a
competitive market, now working with _another_ failing software platform whose
destiny it can't control on top of its other problems, eventually is "married"
by Microsoft.

Now divorced, and looking to make a new life, it would seem.

~~~
jpalomaki
Can't help thinking that selling the phones to Microsoft was the plan-B all
along and one of the reasons why they brought in Elop and decided to go with
Windows.

Selling to Microsoft when things went bad was a pretty big thing. If they had
not been able to sell the mobile phone business for decent price, it might
have taken down the whole company. Considering what happened, the outcome for
Nokia was (IMHO) pretty spectacular.

~~~
rbanffy
I have the feeling it was plan-A for Microsoft all the time. Shuttling someone
loyal to your company to the top job of a struggling acquisition target is a
genius move.

Nokia _was_ struggling to differentiate itself by making their own OS, which
is, in retrospect, a huge mistake. Had they gone with Android, they'd leverage
all their knowledge of the Linux kernel on their own hardware. Getting Android
to run on the N9 would probably have been trivial and they would have a
compelling product in no time.

The whole model of the handset market changed - instead of courting telcos,
they needed to court end-users and they totally blew that up.

~~~
hajile
The N9 was probably the most successful unmarketed and unavailable (not in any
primary markets that could afford it) phone in history. It's big brother was
only available as a dev device.

There's plenty of evidence that there was demand. I'd love to see them
relaunch a similar device with updated specs today. I'd certainly get one.

------
dijit
Every time the fall of Nokia is mentioned I always retell the feelings I had
sitting in Ruholahti, Helsinki on February 2011- the Friday of my first week
at the company; and hearing the news that R&D was shutting down in favour of
Windows Phone.

Many considered it an inferior product, many had just lost the work of their
lives. Most just went to the bar across the street.

I feel the heart and soul of Nokia, just like those engineers, is off of the
main building somewhere. Getting drunk and telling stories of how great things
were and could have been.

~~~
vesak
Ruho = cadaver

Ruoho = grass

You were in Ruoholahti, although I suppose there's some irony in that typo.

~~~
type0
This is just marvellous

------
newobj
Where are they now? Acquiring and aggressively ruining my Withings Body
Composition scale, that's where.

~~~
clamprecht
Yep... it's amazing they could screw that up. Can anyone recommend a
replacement for the Withings scale? All I want it to do is record my weight
every time I step on it, send it up to the Internet, and let me view it in my
browser and iPhone.

~~~
wvenable
I've built a such a scale using a raspberry Pi 3 and a Wii balance board. Step
on the scale and it sends to my phone where an app records it in Samsung
health.

It's still a work in progress but it's functional.

~~~
reitanqild
Nice! Have you shared it somewhere?

(No judgement if not, but awesome if you have : )

~~~
wvenable
I haven't shared yet but I'm planning on it. I used a lot of code and
information available online but some of it is out of date and/or wrong now.

------
heisenbit
Nokia is now primarily doing networks, something they were doing before doing
mobile. A long while ago Nokia was a conglomerate and one of key reasons it
was raising to the top spot in mobile phones and networks was a relentless
focus over a decade where all non-core businesses were sold off or shut down
and the money plowed back to the core. This focus part of the Nokia Group
strategy was not sustainable. The networks part of Nokia peaked with the 3G
networks where their base station was a real hot seller due to superior
performance.

The network side of Nokia is heavily dependent on big buyers. It used to be
that telecom service providers were national and fragmented. That allowed many
companies with localized services to serve them. Of course there are
efficiencies to be gained by running networks across borders and buying in
bulk. The consolidation on the service provider side prompted a consolidation
on the network equipment provider side.

Nokia's networks part merged with Siemens Networks part in a "merger of
equals" imho. not the most effective manner to do these things. Then Alcatel-
Lucent was folded in as well. It is worth contrasting Nokia's strategy with
it's Nordic arch rival Ericsson who went through a consolidation and
rejuvenation a few years earlier and pursued a more organic growth path.

------
Theodores
This article confused me on the reality of today's 'Nokia' phones. The
recently released and 'back to basics' phones are not legitimate Nokia in my
estimation, they are some generic OEM phones with a Nokia label slapped on
them.

I am not sure why this badge engineering bugs me, to make me think they are
not real Nokia. More generally, why is it that badge engineering sometimes is
seen as okay and sometimes not?

To take an automotive analogy, in the VW group there are various high end
brands, e.g. Bentley and Bugatti. Both these marques are seen as having
heritage even if the engines are 'glorified Golf engines' to a certain extent,
even if built in heritage locations (e.g. Crewe, UK) rather than straight out
of Wolfsburg. Same with the BMW brands - the Mini and Rolls Royce cars aren't
seen as badly styled BMWs, but with heritage intact.

Perhaps the reason that these auto brands are okay is that there really has
been innovation, the product line has evolved and the reputation survives.
Getting back to the Nokia 'phones', there is no innovation in bringing out a
ten-year-old product, OEM made by some randoms. This product makes 'Nokia' one
of those fake brands in my estimation and obfuscates the real Nokia that is
innovating with the backend hardware.

Imagine if IBM, when they sold their PC hardware, decided to let Lenovo use
not just 'ThinkPad' but 'IBM' on the products. You would have no idea as a
casual observer that 'IBM were still going'. Nokia just had numbers for their
product line, no household name for that, as per 'ThinkPad'.

I am most amazed that Microsoft could not make this work and I think it was
the death of the evil Microsoft that cowards used to love and the rest of us
used to hate. The once fearsome Microsoft were humbled by it. Even today there
is definite scope for being able to carry your office PC around in mini-form
in a phone in some seamless way, as hinted at with 'Continuum' and so forth.
But whatever happens on the Microsoft Phone platform is negated by things like
'not being able to play YouTube' on it.

~~~
cakedoggie
Has there been innovation in car brands? Apart from electric batteries, a lot
of minor unimportant stuff.

Compare that to computers which have changed dramatically in a short amount of
time.

~~~
acdha
That seems like a very limited view: a lot of that “unimportant stuff “ has
been massive improvements in safety, durability, fuel economy and emissions,
ride quality and comfort, etc.

The other thing to remember is that you're comparing technologies at different
parts of their life-cycle: automotive technology matured half a century
earlier so it's unsurprising that there's less room for dramatic change, just
as the computing market has had periodic plateaus where the annual changes
were far less significant to users – how many normal people even know what
CPU/GPU they're using?

(and, of course, for awhile they've been moving together as we're seeing
manufacturers shipping cars which have things like the ability to stop when a
kid jumps in front of the vehicle. That's not just a car thing or just a
computer thing but it'll save tens of thousands of lives, which seems a lot
more significant than most of what's in an app store)

------
hourislate
Some of the most talented people I have ever met in my 30 years in IT worked
at Nokia (USA and Finland).

There was something about the culture there that just made it an incredible
place to work for everyone. An environment where people were treated with
dignity and respect and rewarded with generosity.

The Fins are incredibly hard working and talented along with their US
counterparts. I imagine any company that hired an ex Nokia employee was
rewarded well.

The company has greatness in it, would not surprise me at all if it rose like
a phoenix from the ashes.

~~~
flyovercow
That feeling is called socialism.

~~~
pyroinferno
OP said Finland and USA.

Also, as far as Socialist countries go, there are plenty that come short when
it comes to business (Italy, Spain, Greece,etc...)

------
zw123456
Nokia bought Alcatel-Lucent who previously bought Timetra which was a silicon
valley start up that at one time was meant to compete with Cisco, a pretty
bold move for sure. They had some pretty amazing stuff (IMHO) but I think one
acquisition after another ruined them, sad I think.

~~~
swiley
Wait, Microsoft owns bell labs now? That's pretty weird.

~~~
pjmlp
Nokia!

~~~
smallhands
Nokia? own bell labs? when did that happen????

~~~
detaro
Last year, when they bought Alcatel-Lucent.

------
agumonkey
Funny just yesterday I was discussing Nokia history. As a simple westerner I
only new Nokia telco, early GSM glory and recent demise. But Nokia was founded
in the 19th century, dealing with wood and rubber. Later they moved into
military equipment and telco.

They also did consumer electronics (VHS, TV) and PCs (desktop and laptops)
using sub brands though.

~~~
likelynew
Read about samsung too if you want to be surprised.

~~~
agumonkey
I actually knew about them but never about Nokia.

------
canada_dry
There are certain brands that I will go out of my way to purchase... Nokia is
one of them.

They could be selling euthanasia kits and I'd get in line for one.

~~~
ptaipale
Well, euthanasia is one of the things where you really like that things are
done properly.

Though unfortunately Nokia isn't going there.

------
prions
I currently work at Nokia/Alcatel-Lucent/Bell Labs/foo and there's a lot of
restructuring going on. Lots of layoffs and org changes which is making
everyone's head spin and adding a lot of uncertainty into the workplace.

A big part of the Alcatel acquisition was acquiring their customers - in a
recent All Hands meeting, Nokia stated they were planning to move away from
"nuts and bolts engineering". In America at least.

------
Nanite
Nokia fits in a bigger picture of large European tech firms which stumbled
over the last 20 year, sold off and shut down divisions before radically
restructuring and reemerging as a smaller but more nimble companies. What is
very worrying however that unlike in the US, which had similar scenarios with
HP and IBM, hardly anything close to new giants of the likes of Alphabet,
Facebook, Amazon appeared during that timeframe in the EU

~~~
jamesblonde
We haven't done software right in Europe. Really, we only have SAP and
computer games companies as massive software companies. We have been terrible
at software. It's very worrying for the remaining industries that software
will soon eat: automobiles and trucks. We're way behind there. Deja vu all
over again, maybe?

~~~
wolfgke
> We haven't done software right in Europe. Really, we only have SAP and
> computer games companies as massive software companies. We have been
> terrible at software. It's very worrying for the remaining industries that
> software will soon eat: automobiles and trucks. We're way behind there. Deja
> vu all over again, maybe?

As a German I say: I would not say we can't do software or we are bad at it.
"Getting really big" is not the typical German culture - so instead we have
software companies from mittelstand that are quite successful in their niche,
but if you don't work in the specific industry, you surely have never heard
of.

What we are _really_ bad at is internet-based (cloud-based) services. On one
hand in Germany there are strong data protection laws which make some kind of
monetization harder - but only people from Germany and neighboring countries
seem to care about what is done with their data. On the other hand there
existed German companies that tried to provide similar services to GMail,
Dropbox etc., but they simply did not have the large financial backing that is
necessary to provide such a service with large capacities for free in the hope
that some time in the future they will make money on it. So they had to do
monetization attempts much earlier on which did not work out well.

~~~
jamesblonde
I never said we can't do it. We educate good enough people - just look at some
of the key technical people at the american giants - Amazon CTO Werner Vogels,
Urs Hölzle at Google, Johnny Ive at Apple. There are technical reasons - lack
of deep VC capital markets and data protection laws as you point out. There
are also cultural reasons - we sell out at 100m and then go enjoy life instead
of building a global giant.

~~~
cJ0th
> data protection laws as you point out

I don't think data protection is our problem. For one thing, if our government
really meant it (which they don't), we could build businesses that attract
customers from all over the world who need strong data protection laws they
can't find anywhere else.

For another thing, there probably is a huge, unexplored market for all kinds
of software which would be in line with the current law.

However, there are many roadblocks that hinder people from experimenting, like
too much bureaucracy and financial dangers (UBI might come in handy here)

And then there are "the little things". Take that law which urges you to fully
disclose your address on your website. If I had build twitter, without knowing
how it is going to turn out, I would not want my boss to be able to find out
what I do in my spare time. In other words, I wouldn't have put it online.

------
Yellow_Boat
It seems that Nokia is trying to make up for their missed shot at smartphones
by aiming at every emerging, cool market.

I know Nokia is a strong brand, but I doubt that is the proper way for them to
get back to being loved company.

~~~
jpatokal
The Nokia of today is first and foremost a business-to-business network
supplier: even its name is back to Nokia Networks. All the consumer
investments on the side are only side bets that may or may not take off.

~~~
Geee
Their brand name everywhere is Nokia, not Nokia Networks. Networks is a
division (and subsidiary) of Nokia. They have networks, health, virtual
reality and phones.

------
zeveb
> As part of the euro zone, Finland was also unable to devalue its currency to
> stimulate spending.

I see this a lot with respect to poorer eurozone countries like Greece. I
wonder if it's part of the reason why some U.S. states like West Virginia are
(apparently permanently) poor. Would the U.S. economy be more dynamic and
productive if each state had its own dollar?

~~~
Wildgoose
Quite possibly. The idea is that there is an Optimum Currency Area, i.e. a
region over which a single currency makes sense.

Larger countries (including the UK) are not necessarily Optimum Currency Areas
but can mask the effects by using fiscal transfers between richer areas (or
states) and poorer areas (or states).

Some smaller countries do better sharing a currency even without the fiscal
transfers, (such as Switzerland and Luxembourg I believe).

The Euro is a classic example of far too large an area, encompassing widely
disparate economies, and without sufficient balancing fiscal transfers - hence
the considered opinion of many people that the Euro as it is currently
constituted is not viable over a longer time period. To survive, the Euro
requires one of: (a) Strong Political Union and Fiscal Transfers (b) The
Departure of Weaker Economies (such as Greece) (c) Breakup, into for example a
"Northern" Euro and a "Southern" Euro

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_currency_area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_currency_area)

------
jpalomaki
I haven't figured out the actual arrangement behind HDM Global, but can't
helping thinking this is just some temporary arrangement and Nokia will
acquire it if the phones turn out to be a success. I would say they are
definitely planning a real comeback to consumer market.

------
bmn__
ctrl+f Elop … Well, thought so. Only a few years later, history is already
forgotten.

[http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/07/the-
sun...](http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/07/the-sun-tzu-of-
nokisoftian-microkia-mirror-mirror-on-the-wall-whose-the-baddest-of-them-all-
waterloo.html)

[http://communities-
dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/11/nokia-u...](http://communities-
dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/11/nokia-under-elop-his-3-years-performance-
review-worst-ceo-of-all-time-all-the-facts-in-pictures.html)

------
Apocryphon
Interesting how Blackberry-née-R.I.M. is also making driverless vehicles a
major priority now.

------
EliRivers
They have been an absolute star of my portfolio since shortly before they sold
a whole load of stuff to Microsoft. Doubled in price, fantastic dividends.
Whatever they're doing, I hope they keep doing it.

------
jawngee
Hmm. First phone I loved is a toss up between the Treo 600 and the Startac,
though leaning mostly towards the Treo. I still miss that keyboard.

------
6stringmerc
Probably still in Finland.

Source: I went to school with a Son of a Nokia employee who informed me the
origin of the name wasn't anything exotic, but a specific town in Finland.
Thus, I gather it's still there.

~~~
vurpo
The Bloomberg article said that Nokia was founded near the city of Tampere. In
fact, it was founded in a smaller town near Tampere, called... Nokia.
Originally it would have been called something to "the Nokia wood pulp
company" or whatever, but they kept the name Nokia when they expanded and
moved.

Nokia's headquarters have been in the city of Espoo for a long time (near
Helsinki). The area in Espoo where they have their office, Otaniemi, is home
to many Helsinki-area tech companies, Aalto University, and many science and
engineering institutions.

------
5_minutes
I can't help but thinking that Nokia is horribly managed. The amount of
inferior products they sold to their loyal audience over and over again, until
we were all so fed up with it: different proprietary cables on same-years'
devices, stagnant software development and replacing durable with cheap
plastics and materials.

Much of the nostalgia connected with this brand is from its early phone days,
it's been an utter mess since.

To that extend, there are very little highlights since then.

~~~
wolfgke
> Much of the nostalgia connected with this brand is from its early phone
> days, it's been an utter mess since.

In the early times there were great phones by Nokia, but also among the later
ones there were great ones. Just mention "Nokia N900" on HN and get detailed
explanations... ;-)

~~~
dolson
I'm afraid I cannot let a mention of the N900 pass by without babbling about
it. I _still_ use my N900, from 2009, every day. It's a full pocket Linux
workstation. I can't believe any company actually made such a thing; it'll
never happen again.

~~~
tunap
Am using mine ATM. It may lack "elegant design" and 4g but it makes up for it
with usability, physical keyboard, swappable battery & expandable storage. It
also can be reassembled and used after _most_ falls up to 20 feet onto solid
surfaces(my Nexus 4 failed after dropping from my pants pocket onto carpet).
It is the only smart smartphone I have encountered since 2007.

