
I was a multi-millionaire by 27–here's what I learned - kschua
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/28/i-was-a-multi-millionaire-by-27-heres-what-i-learned.html
======
noam87
You know how these articles never end? "So I've decided to give away all my
riches to the less fortunate and go back to scraping by for a living like
everyone else."

Give me a break.

Don't like managing your wealth? Just let it sit in your bank account (after
all, it doesn't really matter that much if it grows or not right?).

Don't like mistrusting people? Live a humble lifestyle and there's no reason
they'd ever suspect you're wealthy. I've met plenty flip-flop and $10 shirt
millionaires.

Can't figure out your "purpose" in life? Sounds like you have too much time
and too little imagination; join a charity they'd be glad to keep you busy.

~~~
wolfgke
> Can't figure out your "purpose" in life? Sounds like you have too much time
> and too little imagination; join a charity they'd be glad to keep you busy.

I openly say that this would probably something that is to me very far away
from giving a purpose - quite the opposite. Perhaps because I am a nerd and
charities typically "do something social involving humans", while I think all
the time when, say, teaching children from disadvantaged background (just an
arbitrary example) of how one can scale the impact by a factor of 10 (or if
this is too simple) by 100 - for example using modern technology.

So my hints for finding a purpose:

1\. Study mathematics: So many hard, important and unsolved problems to solve
- many of them having a deep impact on humanity if someone would tackle and
solve them.

2\. Learn programming and solve deep problems that you find. For those for
which 1 is too hardcore. This is HN, so I hope I don't have to write anything
further about this.

3\. If you still into charities, found one that has "how can we scale our
impact by a factor of 10 as soon as possible" in mind all the time instead of
"doing something social with humans" (no experience with this, though, but
this is the only kind of charity that I can imagine having fun working at).

------
anothercomment
He mentions the "basic necessities being taken care of", but I just want to
mention again that a certain amount of money can make a surprising amount of
problems go away. I don't think that aspect should be underestimated. As I am
scrambling by these days, I often run into these problems.

For example recently our dishwasher broke down. I spent a lot of time deciding
whether to get it repaired or buy a new one, and then researching the latter.
With money I would have saved lots of time by simply buying a medium priced
new one off the internet.

Health issues, accommodation, travel plans, lots of worries can go away and
they wear down people who don't have the cash. For example we often stress out
about travel plans because we have to book far in advance or it gets too
expensive. (I know these sound like luxury problems, but when it is a strain
on the marriage it can escalate into real problems quickly).

On the other hand, it seems a lot of people feel rich when they aren't yet.
For example, 5 Million $ doesn't seem that rich to me, more like a slightly
higher pension prospect.

I have friends in the tech industry who have some money (not super rich) and
take it slow, not taking into account that one day their needs might change
and they might suddenly need a lot more money, and have less opportunities to
earn it (for example because they get a family, or health issues).

~~~
holri
A dishwasher and travel bookings are not basic necessities.

When I had no money I did not have a dishwasher at all, but washed by hand. My
travels where in the woods nearby, very relaxing and enjoy full at no cost at
all. No booking required.

Reading stoic philosophy help me a lot more than money.

~~~
charlesdm
Maybe not, but having, say, $100k in the bank does resolve a menial amount of
issues that are not worth thinking about.

Do I want to think about buying a dishwasher? Not really. Do I want to do the
dishes by hand? Not really either.

If you want to read stoic philosophy, having basic things like a dishwasher
will save you hours. That's the only reason why I would get one: less time
wasted on things I don't like.

~~~
tudorw
This is not directed at you personally, an open question if you like, so, what
is not to like about washing dishes? What is it that you do like doing? Would
that still be enjoyable if you spent ALL your time doing that ? Perhaps
happiness is as likely found in a stack of clean plates as a Pilates class...

~~~
charlesdm
Clean plates are awesome, but I just don't like it. I'd rather take a walk
outside in nature / read a book / etc.

If I had more money, I imagine I would probably pick up a new hobby. When my
cousin sold his company, he bought himself a helicopter because he has a love
for flying (studied to be a pilot, etc). It's good fun, but obviously also not
a basic necessity.

~~~
tudorw
I agree, getting out into a forest is always more rewarding than I expect and
something I aspire to do more of, as is reading books from fields I know
nothing about (which gives me lots of options...). I have not seen creative
output mentioned much either, I love to make music, write, those things take
time, so it's a luxury for sure, a rewarding and low cost one too if it has to
be.

------
madmax108
This is so contrastingly similar (yup, that's a phrase) with an equally
thought provoking set of tweets notch put up a couple of months after selling
minecraft:

"The problem with getting everything is you run out of reasons to keep trying,
and human interaction becomes impossible due to imbalance.

In sweden, I will sit around and wait for my friends with jobs and families to
have time to do shit, watching my reflection in the monitor

When we sold the company, the biggest effort went into making sure the
employees got taken care of, and they all hate me now.

Found a great girl, but she's afraid of me and my life style and went with a
normal person instead.

I would Musk and try to save the world, but that just exposes me to the same
type of assholes that made me sell minecraft again

People who made sudden success are telling me this is normal and will pass.
That's good to know! I guess I'll take a shower then!"

Really puts a light on the whole, money will make you happy spin that so many
technologists seem to have fallen into.

References:

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637562496056995840](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637562496056995840)

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563038258868224](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563038258868224)

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563226755067904](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563226755067904)

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563481139638272](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563481139638272)

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563733124980736](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637563733124980736)

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637565210266570752](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637565210266570752)

[https://twitter.com/notch/status/637569407208849408](https://twitter.com/notch/status/637569407208849408)

~~~
weq
This is totally not at the same scale, but still applicable. Coming from am
immigrant family, jumping from 20k a year to 150k @ the age of 20 felt to me
like i had made it. I traded in my civic for a sports car, bought a house, all
the whisky a young man could want etc etc. Did i feel content? At first.
Happier? At first. Then the realisation that there will always be someone
wealthier dawned apon me. Those people work longer, harder, have more
pressure, responsibility and usually dont even have the time to enjoy their
wealth. Managing wealth? You do stupid shit like getting into more debt to try
and "save money from the tax man".

The more money u earn, the more money u spend, the more stress u have.

I quite my job 8 years later, sold everything and travelled the world for 2
years, trying lifestyles i never imagined. In the far reaches of the amazonian
rainforst where i vonunteered to help study the pink dolphins, I saw the
poorest people were actually the happiest people. They had "nothing", but
everything at the same time. Everywhere i went this was true. All my ailments
that followed me while i was in civialisation suddenly dissapeared. Did they
suffer from depression? nup. Poverty? from the outside we assume this was a
bad word, but at the ground level, nup. If u live in a place that provides u
with everything u need natually, u dont need money.

That was just 1 experience of many. Everyday was saturday and i had a purpose
- looking for the meaning of life. I found it everywhere i looked, and money
was never part of the equation.

So now im back; i love coding. Im already living the dream. I dont choose work
based on pay, i choose it based on my moral compass. What did i discover? Well
i think the meaning of life is a little different for everybody, but at our
core, its love, connections, and experiences. No matter how much money you
have, you cant buy the above.

[http://www.avvx62.dsl.pipex.com/boto/br_about.htm](http://www.avvx62.dsl.pipex.com/boto/br_about.htm)

~~~
developer2
Points of note from your comment:

>> stupid shit like getting into more debt

>> The more money u earn, the more money u spend, the more stress u have

The key to more happiness for anyone who is not dirt poor is to live with the
means of someone 1-3 tax brackets below. If you make $100k/year, live as
though you only make $60-70k. If you make $300k, live like you make $120k. It
really is that simple. Stop trying to attain the "next lifestyle bracket",
because it will NEVER "be enough". You will be miserable your entire life,
trying to scrape your way to the "next level". "Unfulfilling" does not begin
to describe that path.

I used to pay $1300/month rent, with a $700/month car financing, a $120
internet package, etc. I now live in a cheaper neighborhood with $640 rent,
gave up the car (ie: $0/month financing), with $40 internet, etc. I went from
$40k in debt and $0 savings account 3 years ago to $0 debt and 5-digit savings
today. The difference in quality of life that makes on a day-to-day basis is
enormous.

Forget the white picket fence and the $50k+ car. Nobody gives a crap where you
live or what you drive - including yourself, whether you believe that or not.
Live somewhere with great public transit or, if you really need - not want - a
car, buy used for $500-$2,000 that gets you from point A to point B. Stop
trying to impress people with your lifesteal. Live cheap, and use the
incredible amount of disposable income to lead a happier life.

~~~
yakshaving_jgt
> Nobody gives a crap where you live or what you drive - including yourself.

Nope. Cars are one of my passions in life. I love driving my sports car. It's
not about impressing people either. I don't understand why nerds _never_
understand this.

~~~
developer2
Of the four people I know who make < $120k/year who are paying $1,000+/month
to finance a > $60k car, only one of them is a real "car enthusiast" who does
it for _himself_. The other three are trying way too hard to prove that they
are living the rich life. They don't give a single damn about the car; their
only concern in the world is that other people notice they have an expensive
car.

If owning an expensive car is what brings someone _personal_ joy, I'm all for
that. When a friend tells me he can't come watch a movie with me or come on a
cheap local road trip because he's behind on his car payments, and he says it
with a depressed facial expression that clearly shows regret for the car...
yeah. I don't know how else to take that other than "stupid life decisions".
And no, I don't drop my jaw in awe over their car - I just see them as a moron
who has misplaced priorities.

~~~
yakshaving_jgt
Ok. I will concede that the above two responses to my comment are fair.

------
ddalex
Cicero - the famed roman author - explained very clearly the difference
between being wealthy and not.

The wealthy are able to control how they spend their time. The not wealthy
have somebody else control what they do with their time. The Romans had a word
for the time period that you control - 'otium'. It was the ideal state for the
Roman nobleman, as they were supposed to have enough income coming from their
properties so that they don't have to work out for it.

The time that you didn't control was the opposite state of 'otium':
'negotium'.

It's more than just a matter of how much money you have and your believes.
Having more money lends you a greater power to bargain on what you do with
your time. Personally, I have enough of a rainy day fund so I am not compelled
to stick around a job I don't like. But I still have to go to a job each day,
and I feel really lucky that I can choose a job that I like. The vast majority
of people are not as fortunate as myself.

------
pipio21
I was never into luxury cars, with the exception of a Tesla that I love I
bought because I was interested in the technology more than in the car itself.

But I always dreamed about having a good yacht so after selling my first
company I bought one. The person who sold it to me joked about two greatest
days of owning a yacht: the day you buy it, the day you sell it.

I did not understand at the time the second part deeply. But it did not take
too long. The thing was a pain in the ass. Turns out the more beautiful the
yacht, the more maintenance it needs, the bigger problems it has, the weaker
it is against the elements and the bigger the storage you need to use, the
more people it needs.

After a while I realized instead of giving me happiness it was giving me
frustration, anger and pain. Instead of me owning this thing it was the
opposite, the thing owning lots of my time and money.

In the end I just sold the thing and I felt like 100 kgs(200pounds) were taken
off my shoulders and it was an amazing moment.

In the future if I need sailing I will lend it instead.

Being wealthy could be a trap. It is a good thing to have some psychological
training first and prepare. Also learn about investing your own money, never
trust others with your money, specially if they are the experts.

~~~
charlesdm
Not sure where I read this, but you're better off chartering something if you
are unsure whether you'd like it (e.g. to try it out).

I have a friend, and his family owns a pretty large yacht. Finding a suitable
and capable skipper that will stick around (e.g. more than a year or two) has
often been a major source of frustration for them.

~~~
dilemma
>Finding a suitable and capable skipper that will stick around (e.g. more than
a year or two) has often been a major source of frustration for them.

They must not be very good employers.

~~~
charlesdm
I think they're actually quite good employers (from what I've seen) and they
pay well.

The issue is that the yacht is used by people all year around, and there isn't
much opportunity to not work. You're away from your family and the people you
love, and so, by default, it's a limited time gig for most people.

------
askafriend
It sounds like a fun challenge. Someone sign me up please. The average
downsides of wealth are far better than the average downsides of being poor.

I understand where this article is coming from though and it does a good job
of making the point it intends to.

~~~
donkeyd
I went from being in a 'poor' household to being above average, but not rich
by any standards.

Luckily, poor in the Netherlands is not the same as poor in the US, also, my
parents knew how to handle money quite well, so we managed. A lot of my
neightbours, however did not. I've seen what being poor does to health. What
it does to behavior towards others, who seem to 'have more', but just spend it
differently. What it does to expectations and opportunities of their children.

I'm sure that money doesn't make you happy, it often does make you happier
than being in the exact same situation without money.

------
Johnny555
_I have become aware that I tend to worry about not having enough money in the
future, and that this fear has been with me all of my life._

Less affluent people have that same fear, the difference being that "in the
future" can mean next year, next month, or even tomorrow.

While wealthy people may worry that they won't be able to keep up their
lifestyle forever, they know that they will still be able to buy food and
shelter (and medical care) even if they lose nearly all of their wealth.

~~~
RangerScience
I think the point he's trying to make is that that emotion doesn't go away
just because it should.

This isn't about what's actually going on, it's about what's being felt.

Comparative suffering is really only suitable for comedic flirting.

------
sudhirj
Was expecting a humblebrag puffpiece, but there is a lot of experience there
worth sharing. Dealing with friends / family, self worth / image / confidence,
investing, the luxury treadmill were all quite interesting and thought
provoking.

~~~
the_cat_kittles
yea i really liked the tone. its tough not to piss people off when you
complain about being rich, but he does it in the right way, not too
melodramatic, and very matter of fact.

------
vcool07
While i don't necessarily agree with the overall dystopian tone of this
article (almost a version of - richest person in the room is also the saddest
one), I have to agree on some of the points. Below is my take on this :

1\. Having more money does present you with complications. You can't just keep
it in a Savings account and ignore it. You just can't , especially for long
periods of time. This adds a significant amount of stress, much more than you
would've imagined !

2\. You start making investments (good and bad). With bad, you learn a lesson
and move on. With good, you again go back to the first point.

3\. Worst problem is when you invest in expensive/market-risk assets (Ex:a
house). After your purchase, if the market goes bad/you don't want to maintain
it etc., it becomes a burden like no other. There are many a sleepless nights
to be had in anticipation of the outcome.

4\. I've a friend who goes to a 9-5 job, stays in a rented house, has a small
piece of land he has bought as an investment for his old days, and spends most
of his free time watching movies (basically doing what he likes). He doesn't
have a fancy car (he actually doesn't have any car), or a fancy house, but he
seems quite happy with what he has. That's the crux of the article I presume ?

~~~
gutnor
1\. You definitively can leave all your money on a saving account.

The worst that happens to it in the first world is inflation eating it away
which really isn't going to make a practical difference on a few millions.
That's like the cost of a cleaner to clean your house.

2-3. That's self-made problems. You don't need to make that kind of investment
unless you want your job to become "investor". In any case a lot of the more
traditional investment like real estate have countless middlemen to take the
stress out of it.

4\. That is something you can definitively do with a lot of money too. I know
people that retired just after Uni or later in life and did just that.

This is an attitude problem. It is very common here on HN or in the tech
community in general, even the one with 9-5 jobs. The obsession to make every
minute of your time productive, self-convincing yourself that's what you
really want to do or that you must do it in order to stay relevant is
destroying a lot of people.

Unlike the lawyer, doctor, ... the tech community is its own enemy. The other
communities tries to get the member to cope with the pressure, the tech one
openly encourage it: "So your brain surgeon is not volunteering as a knee
surgeon nurse over the weekend to extend his skill and does not run mental
health practice in the evening as a hobby business ? What a loser."

~~~
croon
Fully agreed.

Also, 1-3 can easily be solved with a Vanguard/ETF/S&P500/etc. While
technically not risk free, it practically is in the long run.

Having money doesn't inherently create any problems for you. Having no money
however definitely limits your options of living.

Having these problems (mentioned in the article) is completely unrelated to
money.

------
sametmax
So he learned literally all bottom lines from all holywood movies about wealth
ever ?

Kudos man. I'm glad it took 5M$ to get you to that point. I paid a netflix fee
for the same result but hey, tomato...

~~~
anothercomment
Hm, I don't trust those Hollywood movies. They are always about how money
doesn't make you happy, but the producers are probably laughing about the poor
people paying for the movie tickets all the way to the bank.

So essentially movies made by rich people to teach the poor masses not to be
envious.

~~~
sametmax
The point is not saying movies are a good source of information. Just that the
guy is stating the obvious. We all know that money don't make you happy. We
all know that not having enough money will make your life difficult. We all
know having enough money will make your life simpler. We all know that human
relations get twisted with money. No point in writing an article that is just
the clone of most movies/songs/books about people getting rich.

------
SloopJon
From the end of the article: "This article originally appeared on Medium."

[https://hackernoon.com/multi-millionaire-at-27-what-i-
learne...](https://hackernoon.com/multi-millionaire-at-27-what-i-
learned-7df8153f5425)

~~~
iokevins
Second the suggestion to move original link, from CNBC, to Medium.

The former has added a number of CNBC content ad links which the author didn't
seem to have in the Medium source.

------
dkns
"In fact, wealth can actually make life worse. We can use wealth to distract
us from our deeper issues by spending money on things we don't need, or
worrying about losing our wealth."

You'll have those 'deeper issues' when you're poor as well. The difference
will be you'll be anxious because you won't be sure if you'll have the money
for all of your bills or you'll have enough to feed your family and not
worrying if you can afford next luxury car.

I see blogs/articles like this pop from time to time. A rich guy (who probably
didn't ever experience in his life how it's like to be poor) saying "being
rich isn't a solution to all of your life problems". Well, I'm sure it isn't,
being rich doesn't equal being content in life, but it sure as hell beats
being poor.

------
palerdot
>I have a very strong impression that what defines how much money or income
anyone has is almost completely defined by their limiting beliefs.

This one really struck me. Repeatedly this point comes up in all the new age
money related philosophies, and I'm kind of starting to agree with it. Nice
write up.

~~~
nerdponx
Try telling that to the homeless guys I pass on my way to work every morning.
Especially the one guy who can barely talk; I don't think what he _believes_
matters at this point in his life. Maybe, if he believes in his ability to
overcome being homeless and unable to speak, one day he'll find that his life
is turning around. But to suggest that the amount of money he "has" is limited
only by his belief is absurd.

~~~
RangerScience
Huh. Actually, I would bet money on that kinda working, if you could actually
convince him?

Remember when that one guy in New York, I think it was, gave a homeless guy a
deal: money now, or programming lessons - and they made an app, and the app
made money... that the guy couldn't collect because he couldn't get a bank
account because he couldn't Deal with going into the government offices to get
an identity?

Or that thing that happens when you give someone who's been homeless for
awhile an apartment and they camp out in the apartment like they were still on
the street?

It's like... min(x, y, z). It makes sense that belief does not get you money,
but it also makes sense the lack of belief leads to lack of money.

I'm not saying that everyone is in that boat. That is definitely not the case.
But I would say that most people are in that boat.

There's also a big difference in if the boat has three off-board motors and a
Jacuzzi, or paddle... But if you don't believe there's someplace worth going
that you can get to...?

~~~
nerdponx
I would take your bet, and you would lose.

The things you aren't describing are "lack of belief." They're "serious
emotional problems brought on by seriously hard life situations."

Do people still really believe in this pull-yourseful-up-by-the-bootstraps
stuff?

------
sundvor
"Deeply enjoying whatever it is you're experiencing right now is the ultimate
wealth."

This. Finances are currently a struggle for me, and work hasn't been all easy
either, however I still have the ability to deeply enjoy whatever I'm doing -
not all the time, but often enough that I feel happy in light of everything.

I feel a sense of gratitude* for that.

*) [http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-my-life-so-hard/](http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-my-life-so-hard/)

------
petard
The content ads in the article like "Rich people use these 6 mental tricks to
make more money" or "How rich people save" are kind of funny - and sad at the
same time.

------
nunez
On one hand, I appreciate the insight and advice from people much wealthier
than me on how being wealthy isn't as cracked up as it's made out to be.

On the other hand, they are wealthier than me and _can_ say that. I can't. It
is difficult to take their advice at face value because of it.

I think that the only two solutions to this problem are (1) Fore-go wanting to
become wealthy and being content with what you have, or (2) Try to attain
enough wealth to see for yourself whether the sacrifices made were worth it.

If staying where you're at doesn't seem right to you, then you're only option
is door (2).

To be clear, I don't think that doing everything you can to make more cash is
the right way to go. From what I've seen, it is very difficult to attain
massive amounts of wealth without getting in really early on a business
opportunity that rocket ships. I think having core values (i.e things you
cannot give up) helps. But if the expected reaction from reading this piece is
"Well, being rich doesn't sound much better than having to worry about money
all of the time, so I guess I'll just keep working at okay salary levels until
I retire 60 years from now," then I can't feel ok with that.

That's where my head's at right now.

------
rl3
I love how the author bears resemblance to Russ Hanneman from _Silicon Valley_
—even warning the reader of the perils involved in buying exotic sports cars.

------
mattfrommars
I've noticed something which I refuse to believe might be the case. I rather
deny the fact then accept it around the people I am with because if I accept
it, I feel I don't know what I'm doing in my life and all might have been a
lie.

I've been living in a developing country [my home country] after moving away
from a the first world country for family reason. As a 25 year old, introvert
and someone who has social anxiety without ever knowing it, I just can't
understand what is happiness.

I have observed people out in the street, at stores, at restaurants just doing
their jobs and happy. They laugh and go to small parties and look as if
content. This observation was made even by a working at a small local company
which wasn't much that people just worked. They did not have any desire to
make more money as to gain skills. It boggles my mind they just 'keep
churning'. They go back to their home living with family and come back, rinse
on repeat. Even small shops, really small shops/restaurants who might think
they need money to survive, they don't have any real check and balance. It's
literally "I want this". You go off someone else where the cook might be, you
pick up it up after it's done and you head back to the cashier. The cashier
doesn't have any idea what I ordered, the quantity or anything. There is
possibility just walk away without paying.

Whereas what I believe at the moment, I need skills and wealth to achieve
happiness. I sometimes question, am I even unhappy? Yes I'm unhappy because I
don't have a career, I don't have a home, I don't wealth etc. But in reality,
the way families work here, they want everyone to live under the same roof,
making small amount of money to 'run the kitchen', share family car. Why seek
an independent life when all the needs can be provided by entire families
working together.

I fear the life I'm striving for might lead to loneliness. I.e moving away
from my home, starting a career, moving to a different country from developing
to develop, getting into corporate life and eventually becoming wealthy. In my
eyes, I would feel I'm the most successful with most money in the bank, but
what would other think?

------
jankotek
> _It 's really challenging being wealthy. Approach with caution._

------
d--b
Well, this is more about what the OP unlearned. He has yet to learn how to
live with moeny, now that he's kind of stuck with it.

I have some very wealthy friends who do not fit that pattern at all. They know
what to do with their money (and no it's not about buying luxury cars). They
know how to keep a sense of purpose in their lives. They know how to keep
healthy relationships despite the money imbalance.

What's interesting is what comes AFTER the realization that money doesn't buy
everything. It still buys you a lot of freedom, the question is what you do
with that!

------
fiftyacorn
The section "Most financial advisors know nothing" made me laugh

------
tudorw
Not much patronage mentioned, if you have the cash and are lacking inner
beauty, why not find an auteur, artist, student, anyone who will create beauty
and bring joy, throw money at it joyfully and if you are lucky you are
creating cultural wealth and financial opportunity for others. Commission some
art, buy your own orchestra! (Email address in profile... ;)

------
1ba9115454
TLDR

The best things in life are free.

------
ensiferum
Boohoo... poor you.

Sorry no sympathy.

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Kenji
>Most financial advisors know nothing

I worked at a bank and can confirm. Most financial advisors even lack the
basic math skills, they can do linear functions if they are above average.
Needless to say, I'm outta there and in tech now. Just do your homework and
decide what to do with your money yourself. You'll save time and lots of
money.

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andrewclunn
"Limiting beliefs" eh? God damn, I hate how wealthy people love their
therapists so much and all need some simple dogma or narrative to explain
their success. Though I guess I see poor people doing the same with finding
externalized reasons for their lack of success.

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behnamoh
This coming from the guy who's already _rich_.

I doubt he had the same opinions before he got rich.

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nagyf
Yeah, that's the point of the whole post, you know. It tells you what is it
like to be rich, which most people won't be, ever.

