
Ask HN - Is it worth joining Mensa? - vijayr
I was discussing this with a friend of mine, he is in favor of it, and I am not sure (assuming of course, we qualify).  Any MENSA members here?  How would you describe the experience?
======
perfectlyfrank
I joined MENSA for the card. When I went to Kinko's to laminate it, I didn't
read the instructions on the wall, and the laminate melted to the machine. I
had to get the Kinko's guy to open the machine for me, but by then the card
was bubbling. When he scraped it out and saw what it was, he laughed. He
laughed so hard.

Is it worth joining MENSA? If you want to belong to a club that would have me
as a member.

~~~
BrentRitterbeck
Is this a true story? Either way, it's one of the biggest laughs I have in a
while.

~~~
perfectlyfrank
Yes. It's so in character that I'm not even able to be ashamed of it anymore.

------
JayNeely
You may find this information helpful in deciding; it's an article called "A
Short (and Bloody) History of the High I.Q. Societies"

<http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/history.html>

An excerpt (Dr. Ware is one of the cofounders of Mensa):

At a 1996 convention celebrating the 50th anniversary of Mensa's founding, Dr.
Ware (now 81 years old) voiced hope "that Mensa will have a role in society
when it gets through the ages of infancy and adolescence ... but at least it
has satisfied its members." Dr. Ware seemed disheartened by the Mensans'
seeming inability to focus beyond self-gratifying pursuits and apply their
collective brain-power to problems facing the world today. "I do get
disappointed that so many members spend so much time solving puzzles," Ware
said. "It's a form of mental masturbation. Nothing comes of it."

------
superjared
It seems to me the only reason to join MENSA is to brag about the fact that
you got in.

~~~
mattmaroon
I think it's kind of gone the other way now too. If someone "brags" about
having joined MENSA I'd pretty much roll my eyes.

------
anigbrowl
No. My sister is a member (in the UK, but it's likely much the same) and I
thought about joining too, until I saw their magazine, which is basically a
heap of self-congratulatory wank... 'will asteroids hit earth, and what should
Mensans do about it?' 'why the world would be better if it was run by
Mensans', 'Why we are special' ...and so on. These were 1000 word articles at
most, not even as interesting or challenging as something in Scientific
American ( _after_ it went into the toilet).

It has as little content as any other kind of social club newsletter, but is
vastly more pretentious. They do hold events and so forth, and they are much
the same as the magazine with the addition of beer or tea, depending on what
time of day they are held. Maybe it's like scientology, where the outer
members talk about how great it is and promote it to everyone else, and the
inner core enjoy a privileged lifestyle awash with drugs, sex and money, but I
wasn't very interested in finding out the rest. Frankly, I was depressed by
how petty and parochial it turned out to be, but perhaps that's because I had
retained my childish impression of how fabulous a special club for only smart
people would be.

~~~
mixmax
The drugs, sex and money part sounds quite good though.

------
jm4
I would recommend getting in contact with your local group and trying to meet
a few members. What you get out of it could depend largely on how active your
local group is and whether or not it's one you fit into. My local group is
made up primarily of a much older crowd so I don't get much out of it besides
a subscription to the Mensa magazine and local newsletter. There's a very
active GenX/GenY Yahoo group, but it tends to be dominated by a handful of
right-wing trolls. No thanks.

You need to coordinate a time to take the admission test through a local
member anyway, assuming you haven't taken another test that could qualify you.
There are quite a few that can be accepted so you'll want to look into it.
It's possible you've already scored high enough on one of their accepted tests
and you only need to submit the results.

If you don't anticipate being active in your local group you could go ahead
and join anyway just to put it on a resume, although there are mixed opinions
on how that's perceived by potential employers. I mention on my resume that
I'm a member and I don't think it's ever been a problem, but I've heard about
managers who toss resumes in the trash for it. As I write this I see that
another commenter has said that they roll their eyes when someone mentions
being a member. The reality probably is that very few people will be impressed
by it.

The admission test itself is surprisingly simple. There are actually two of
them and you only need to pass one. The first test is the Wonderlic and the
second is a test designed by Mensa. If you fail both you don't get to reapply.
You never learn your score. You're only told whether you passed or failed.

The tests contain nothing like those ridiculous Mensa brain teaser books.
They're the types of questions that most reasonably intelligent people can
answer fairly easily. They're not unlike the questions you see on the online
Mensa practice test or one of those tickle.com IQ tests. What makes it
difficult is that you've got insane time constraints. You end up with about
12-15 seconds per question. One test is fill in the blank and the other is
multiple guess scantron. You basically have to be writing your answer while
reading and solving the next problem. The person who proctored my exam said
that there's about a 60% failure rate. It probably says more about the people
applying than the actual test, but I thought it was interesting.

Is it worth it? I don't know. I don't get much out of the membership. I was
interested in meeting up with similar minded people to have discussions, etc.,
but I think more than anything it was a personal challenge. I wanted to know
if I could do it. As for the interaction with smart people, I think I get more
out of HN than I could ever get out of Mensa.

~~~
vijayr
Thank you so much for the detailed reply. The topic just popped up while
talking; its definitely not for bragging, or adding it to the resume.

12-15 seconds is insane. Would need some practice, if the time constraint is
going to be that hard.

~~~
jm4
The time constraints are doable. Like I said, the questions aren't terribly
difficult. The most important thing is that you bring your A game. You could
be more than qualified, but if you get up in the morning and don't feel 110%
ready there's a good chance you won't pass. I felt great the day I took my
test. There are plenty of other days that I don't think I'd pass.

The best advice I can give for the test is if you don't feel like you're ready
to kick some ass you're best off rescheduling. Once you show up and see the
test you can't take it again.

The Wonderlic is probably the harder test because the questions get
progressively more difficult. The first few are a joke, but the ones at the
end are pretty tough. You won't finish. Almost no one does. I think I answered
43 questions and there's no way I got them all correct.

------
metachris
That's kinda interesting, crazy and funny at the same time:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_IQ_society>. To me it mostly looks like
this is to make the members feel somewhat outstanding, making up for their own
social deficiencies.

# Top 5% (95th percentile; 1/20; IQ 124 sd15, IQ 126 sd16): International High
IQ Society

# Top 2% (98th percentile; 1/50; IQ 130 sd15, IQ 132 sd16): Encefálica
Society, High Potentials Society, Mensa International, Mysterium Society

# Top 1% (99th percentile; 1/100; IQ 135 sd15, IQ 137 sd16): Intertel, Top One
Percent Society

# Top 0.5% (99.5th percentile; 1/200; IQ 139 sd15, IQ 141 sd16): Colloquy
(Society), Poetic Genius Society[2]

# Top 0.37% (99.63rd percentile; 1/270; IQ 140 sd15): Infinity International
Society, HispanIQ International Society

# Top 0.3% (99.7th percentile; 3/1,000; IQ 141 sd15, IQ 144 sd16): Cerebrals
Society

# Top 0.2% (99.8th percentile; 1/500; IQ 143 sd15, IQ 146 sd16): Exactiq High
IQ Society, ePiq

# Top 0.13% (99.87th percentile; 13/10,000; IQ 145 sd15, IQ 148 sd16): CIVIQ
Society

# Top 0.1% (99.9th percentile; 1/1,000; IQ 146 sd15, IQ 149 sd16): Glia
Society, International High IQ Society Milenija, International Society for
Philosophical Enquiry, Iquadrivium Society[2], One-in-a-Thousand Society[2],
Triple Nine Society

# Top 0.07% (99.93th percentile; IQ 148 sd15, IQ 151 sd16): ISI-Society

# Top 0.003% (99.997th percentile; 3/100,000; IQ 160 sd15, IQ 164 sd16):
Prometheus Society, Tetra Society,Homo Universalis Society

# Top 0.001% (99.999th percentile, 1/100,000; IQ 164 sd15, IQ 168 sd16):
Eximia High IQ Society, GenerIQ Society, The Ultranet

# Top 0.00001% (99.9999th percentile,1/1,000,000; IQ 172 sd15, IQ 176 sd16):
The Mega Society, The Omega Society

# Top 0.000003% (99.99997th percentile; IQ 175 sd15, IQ 180 sd16): OLYMPIQ
Society, PARS Society

Oh, and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination>

~~~
baddox
Interesting. With the most restrictive category, only 200 people in the world
could be admitted. Most people are somewhat skeptical of IQ tests, but does
anyone actually think that any test could be accurate enough to pick the 200
most intelligent humans in the world?

~~~
tokenadult
_does anyone actually think that any test could be accurate enough to pick the
200 most intelligent humans in the world?_

Not a chance. None of the tests used for admission to such high-IQ societies
have ever been properly validated.

------
alanthonyc
An ex co-worker was partially obsessed with the topic of joining mensa. He
used to bring it up in conversation all the time, mostly about how close he
was to getting in and how much he wanted to get in.

One day, the director of the company for whom we worked heard us talking about
it. She said, "You know what mensa means, right?" She's a native Spanish
speaker.

My co-worker never brought it up again after that.

EDIT: Aw, c'mon...googling the definition is half the fun. ;)

~~~
madars
For those who don't know Spanish: <http://www.merriam-
webster.com/spanish/mensa>

~~~
diego
BTW, that's Mexican slang. For most Spanish speakers outside of Mexico mensa
has no meaning.

~~~
hailxenu
At least here in Chile, when somebody calls you 'menso' it is understood that
you are being called dumb. But it's connotation isn't too negative, it's
rather familiar and cutesy, probably because we got it from El Chavo del ocho
:)

------
mixmax
A developer I worked a lot with is a member, and he has lots of fun trolling
their forums. Apparently a lot of mensa members are easy prey because they
think they have to come up with a clever answer when in fact they're being
pwned.

That's the only thing he uses it for though.

------
edw519
I once had a girlfriend that had joined MENSA to meet smart guys, but gave up
dating them because they were all such geeks.

She ended up with me. Talk about irony.

------
philelly
the people here seem so self-motivated that i would be surprised if many of
them would want to pay yearly fees to be told they are smart, as opposed to
simply telling themselves they're smart or, better yet, not really worrying
about it at all.

those looking for a new, ultra-stimulating social circle may think mensa
offers more than their local universities or alumni associations, but i'm not
so sure. i would also worry that mensa might select for a unique type of
person who is highly invested in his perceived intelligence (which is often to
the detriment of friendship and productive conversation). i wonder if anyone
can tell us more about the organization...

------
Eliezer
No. Mensa is about the intellectual level of a small regional SF convention.

~~~
paddy_m
what is SF an acronym for? Science Fiction, San Francisco ?

~~~
philwelch
Science Fiction.

Though a San Francisco convention is a surprisingly interesting idea. Where
would you hold it? Oh, right...

~~~
psawaya
Well, he said it would be "regional", so I guess it could just as easily be in
New Jersey.

------
tilly
My opinion is that MENSA is for people whose main accomplishment in life is
doing well on an IQ test. And who are insecure enough about it to pay someone
else to validate that accomplishment. This opinion is shared by a number of
people that I respect.

If you actually do something that requires using your brain, you should meet
plenty of other people who have good brains and have done something with them.
The "have done something" bit makes them into more interesting people to be
around. Plus you don't have to pay for that privilege.

Random disclaimer. I am not a MENSA member. However my GRE scores qualify me
for membership in most high IQ organizations, including MENSA.

------
endtime
My dad signed me up for MENSA and Triple 9 when I was seven years old (doubt
I'd get into Triple 9 today). Never really participated in anything, so I
don't have much concrete experience, but part of why I've never bothered is
because I'd rather spend my time using my intelligence than sitting
congratulating myself for it.

If you want to meet bright people, I guess it could be worth it, but keep in
mind that they're drawn from the subset of bright people who are terribly
fixated on how bright they are.

------
dag
No.

Groups within a community are generally good ways to meet new people and make
connections, but I haven't seen any benefit in Mensa specifically. Go join a
*UG or some group oriented toward finishing projects, not self-celebration.

------
neilk
I have no experience with Mensa myself, but generally, you don't want to hang
around people who _have_ a lot (money, intelligence, looks), what you want to
do is to hang around people who _do_ a lot (entrepreneurs, hackers, writers,
artists, physically active people).

And, for the inevitable objection: yes, you could be a do-er who also ended up
having a lot. But the reverse is not necessarily true.

------
lurkinggrue
Obligatory Dilbert: <http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/1992-02-03/>

------
cortesi
Not in my experience - in Australia, Mensa is a sort of lonely-hearts club for
single, middle-aged programmers. The few meetings I went to were as tedious,
awkward and onanistically self-congratulatory as you would expect, and I let
my membership lapse soon after.

I've heard that in other parts of the world membership can be very worth-
while, as long as there are active SIGs within your field of interest.

Oh, and whatever you do, please don't put Mensa membership on your CV, unless
you want to look like a prat. Joining Mensa is not an accomplishment - if
you're applying for a job in the upper tiers of any white-collar profession,
being in the 98th percentile is pretty much a given.

------
psawaya
As Stephen Hawking said, people who boast about their IQ are losers.

~~~
tokenadult
Yes. Primary source for the quotation:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12QUESTIONS.html>

------
Mz
I would say it depends on your reasons for joining. I have a much older cousin
who belonged at one time. We haven't kept in touch, so I don't know if he
stayed. He apparently got a lot out of it socially, but I think that was back
before the Internet became such a convenient hookup for like-minded
individuals. He once suggested I try to get in because I wanted to go back to
college and they apparently have a small scholarship program. I never got
around to it.

But if you are looking primarily for a social experience, I think it's best to
participate in something which happens to be "intellectual" in nature but is a
genuine personal interest -- an astronomy club, an online forum with a topic
of interest, etc. Although close friends and married couples (supposedly) tend
to be within about 10 IQ points of each other, just being roughly equally
smart doesn't guarantee you will have similar interests or compatible
personalities. I have found that certain topics online tend to attract bright
people. If you are genuinely interested in the topic and are there for that
reason, it is one of the better means to find folks you have a good shot at
hitting it off with socially. I even know of people who met that way and ended
up married.

------
jlees
I joined when I was around 14, and left (if you can ever leave?) when I was
17. One of those precocious-gifted-child things; and the child subscriptions
are fairly low. It was worth it to get the validated IQ score, and bizarrely,
the child-MENSA magazine that circulated at the time led to my first real job.

So it can pay off, both if you've ever been curious about your IQ (not that
anyone believes such things, but it's still great fun trumping an arrogant
arse at a party) and because it's yet another way of networking. But the sort
of people who join MENSA might not really be the sort of people you want to
network with.

The job story:

An advert had a programming puzzle and an address to send solutions to. I
solved the puzzle and realised it was a fiendish form of recruitment for a
summer job at a fairly boring, run-of-the-mill web development company (oh,
the glory days of 1999).

I also made a few 'friends' through it at the time, but I thought they were
all up themselves. (They were. One later turned up to Cambridge, a year after
me; can you spell 'socially awkward'? I bet he could.)

~~~
metachris
> but it's still great fun trumping an arrogant arse at a party

lol. to 'trump' with the score on an IQ test... i think i'd laugh so hard i'd
shit my pants if someone says "hey, i have 150 IQ, i'm right dammit"

~~~
nostrademons
Thing is, IQ matters to the arrogant arses that you might want to trump. So
for a normal person, the response to "hey, I have 150 IQ, I'm right damnit" is
"Oh my god, I can't believe he just said that. Or thinks it matters." But to
the person with the 150 IQ who's sure he's right because of it, it may be
somewhat more effective to say "Yeah, I have 170, can we talk about something
else now?"

~~~
jlees
Yeah, this is the context I mean, though more so on IQ scores themselves,
rather than "I'm right because my IQ is x". In some wannabe-intellectual
circles, the "My IQ is.." dicksize contest _does_ come up, and it's fun being
able to quietly speak up and shut them all up.

------
olefoo
If you are looking for seeds for a social life in a strange city, then yes.
But remember that membership in Mensa is not an achievement, it signifies
nothing other than that you scored well on a standardised test.

------
amrith
I was a member of Mensa till I found that it was totally useless. Your mileage
may vary so it is worthwhile understanding what you want to get out of it.
Here are some things that I have found:

* a benefit to put it on your resume: NO

* a place to meet like minded people: MAYBE but you may have better luck at your local pub/bar/gym/grocery store

* a group that sends out an interesting newsletter: MAYBE but it depends on your local chapter

* a valuable recognition similar to "Won Nobel Prize", "Went to the Moon", "Climbed Mt. Everest": NO

* an indication of "superior intellect": NO, Mensa is the 98 percentile group, in theory the membership could be 2% of over 5 billion. Not really superior. If you want that, try for TNS (Triple Nine Society)

* a good way to get a credit card: NO, the people at Mensa International and the people you have to talk to when you get this card are not members of Mensa :(

------
jey
What's the point of being a Mensa member?

~~~
CamperBob
The first rule of Mensa is you have to talk about Mensa.

------
tvon
Not unless you need to be a member to get the puzzle books and magazines. I
don't know what the materials are like these days but growing up we had a few
MENSA books around the house full of brain teases and logic problems, I used
to love going through them and trying to solve (or rarely, actually solving)
the problems.

I don't know what the point of actually being a member is though, unless
you're going to get a T-shirt, an "I'm with MENSA" truckers hat or something
along those lines...

------
keefe
I qualified with my GRE scores in the last batch of GRE scores what was
accepted by MENSA... I hear it lets you get car insurance discounts from some
places? Logically, it seems like one more small trinket to enable in the
equipment of Keefe (sorry for the dorky WoW analogy) but I have always been
resistant to doing it.... maybe it's a good way to meet like minded people
though?

------
srn
Almost nobody knows I'm a member.

While my accomplishments are respectable from an objective standpoint, I
joined to talk about my relative underachievement. Probably anyone outside of
mensa thinks that's crazy.

The people at local meetings seem nice enough to me. Even if the local groups
suck where you are, there are online SIGs which might be worthwhile. The
online SIGs cover a very wide range of topics.

------
jff
I once thought I wanted to join Mensa, then when I hit about 14 I decided,
"nawwwwww".

I came to this decision partly because I discovered that it's often easier to
hate intelligent people, something which has only been reinforced in my years
at college.

------
zmonkeyz
Maybe you'll meet Asia Carrera.

------
vijayr
I found this one, similar to MENSA <http://www.triplenine.org/>

Haven't heard of it before, just found it while looking for MENSA related
info.

------
kirpekar
I am a MENSA member. I've been to a few meetings and regularly enjoy reading
the Intelligencer. Other than that, nothing much, life as usual.

------
sown
Why not join a hackerspace instead?

------
nazgulnarsil
is it useful on resumes considering that college degrees are already a stand
in for IQ?

~~~
rw
> considering that college degrees are already a stand in for IQ?

 _What?_

~~~
tokenadult
Economists of education think much of the purported value of a college degree
comes not from what college study adds to the value of a job-seeker, but from
what a college degree signals about characteristics the job-seeker had to have
to be admitted to college. One thing a college degree signals is a THRESHOLD
level of scholastic ability (the better term for what IQ scores estimate). In
the United States, there are severe legal difficulties related to using mental
test scores to screen job applicants--the same difficulties don't relate to
requiring all job applicants to have a college degree.

------
cmos
It's a fraternity.. don't waste your time.

(disclaimer: never had anything to do with it nor do I know anyone who has)

~~~
mal
I joined to get laid. Worked well for me, YMMV :)

