
Ask HN: Have you done / plan to do any basic “prepping” (tinned food etc) - lifeisstillgood
I have half an eye on NZ right now (waiting to hear from some friends of friends) and on the interwebs there are a few articles written by not obviously-insane people about how sensible it is to have a few stocks of this, first aid kits of that and so on.  I feel it&#x27;s next in my list after getting the tax-efficient index savings going.<p>Is this a common thing and any advice?
======
ccallebs
It's very sensible to prep for small or extended periods of supply-chain
breakdown. My wife and I have taken the following precautions:

\- We have a few LifeStraw personal water filters [1]. These things are
awesome -- one of them filters up to 1,000 liters of drinking water. Very
reasonable price too ($20, you can get them for cheaper occasionally on sites
like woot). I'd argue these are the most important items we own.

\- We have an abundance of canned goods. This isn't primarily meant for
"prepping", but we always buy more canned goods than we need when we find them
on sale.

\- This won't apply to everyone, but we have a large amount of heirloom seeds
we've collected over the past few years. We have ~9.5 acres of land, so if
things were to ever get rough (and plants still grew) we'd be able to get food
that way.

[1] - [https://www.amazon.com/LifeStraw-LSPHF017-Personal-Water-
Fil...](https://www.amazon.com/LifeStraw-LSPHF017-Personal-Water-
Filter/dp/B006QF3TW4/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=ketohunt-20&linkId=b2157e3851cfccad175aec7a61c608cb)

~~~
vram22
> we have a large amount of heirloom seeds we've collected over the past few
> years.

Don't seeds get unviable (if that is the right word) after a few years? I've
done gardening in the past, and seen that seeds a few years old sometimes do
not germinate. Might want to test with a few of each kind and date range,
periodically.

~~~
Symbiote
Seed viability is indeed the correct term.

Commercially bought seeds usually have a "best before" date on the packet.

There's some information here, but it's pretty technical:
[http://data.kew.org/sid/viability/](http://data.kew.org/sid/viability/)

~~~
vram22
Had a quick look. Technical indeed :) But good to know - thank you. Heard of
the Kew Botanical gardens in the UK. I guess that site will likely be a good
resource for other related info and will explore it some.

~~~
Symbiote
Kew also runs the Millennium Seed Bank, which is keeping seeds from all over
the world in a nuclear-bomb-proof vault in a relatively remote bit of southern
England -- tests they run there is where the seed viability data comes from.

[http://www.kew.org/science-
conservation/collections/millenni...](http://www.kew.org/science-
conservation/collections/millennium-seed-bank)

------
up_so_floating
One important thing that everyone seems to be missing is a firearm. What good
is prepping if all of your goods can easily be seized? This is in addition to
a firearm's utility as a hunting instrument, which could prove useful if your
supplies began to dwindle. Regardless, owning a firearm is prudent whether or
not your prepping efforts come to fruition.

~~~
Mz
This is terrible advice. I grew up with guns on the wall. My dad grew up on a
farm, spent 26.5 years in the military, was awarded a purple heart. I grew up
with gun culture and eating food dad killed himself.

If you are not actually going to become a hunter and seriously learn to shoot
and become part of gun culture, don't go buy a gun "in case you need it, some
day." That's utter insanity. It will just result in you helping to arm other
people (that you don't want to arm, that will not be your protectors) and
upping the stakes in the process.

I was a fine shot in my youth. I would be perfectly comfortable being around
guns for the right reason, under the right circumstances. This is not it.

Instead of preparing yourself for some Mad Max bullshit scenario where you
imagine you will play hero, having never done it before in your life, just
work on continuing to improve supply chain, emergency response and so forth --
in other words, keep building a more reliable and more civilized civilization.
That is your best bet right there.

If you actually are a part of gun culture and know what the fuck you are
doing, I am not talking about you. So don't give me shit for telling ninnies
to not do this.

Thanks.

~~~
adiabatty
> Instead of preparing yourself for some Mad Max bullshit scenario where you
> imagine you will play hero, having never done it before in your life, just
> work on continuing to improve supply chain, emergency response and so forth
> -- in other words, keep building a more reliable and more civilized
> civilization. That is your best bet right there.

I agree with this in part. Firearms proficiency is a skill that you need to
acquire _and maintain_ if you want to be able to use a gun to defend yourself
and your family without accidentally shooting them. This is a skill you can
acquire with classes, but merely having the pistol/shotgun won't make you
safer automatically.

~~~
Mz
Thank you for being the first reply that didn't wildly twist out of shape what
I actually said.

------
mathgeek
> I feel it's next in my list after getting the tax-efficient index savings
> going.

I have to admit that I chuckled a bit at the juxtaposition here. The concerns
are both valid, yet they are preparations for two somewhat exclusive
situations.

~~~
christiangenco
Isn't that the point of diversification?

~~~
theseatoms
Exactly. The risk-averse, in particular, should consider and plan for the full
distribution of possible future circumstances, the less likely of which will
sound far-fetched. (Of course)

This is why rich, old white men, with plenty to lose, are the most common
preppers. (In greater proportion than their share of the populace.)

~~~
internaut
Actually I think it is some rich whites, countryside whites but not middle
class city whites with the exception of Mormons and Jews for cultural and
historical reasons.

The great irony is that the people in the cities surrounded by lots of
competing mouths and only a few days supply of food at the shops are also the
least worried about starving to death.

------
swozey
I keep a weeks worth of freeze dried food rations/MREs, a couple of charged
USB powerbricks, flashlights and batteries, body wash wipes, a basic bathroom
kit. As I'm writing this I realized I don't have any water. I need to buy
water and gas and put some stuff in my car.

Anyway, in 2008 I lost power for 15 days during hurricane Ike. It was an
interesting scenario I'd never been in or considered. I still had to go to
work 30 minutes away (Houston) which consumed gas, having to go to work during
this might sound bad; but it was the ONLY place in miserably hot September in
Houston where I could charge my phone and sit in an air conditioner because we
had power. To buy gas I had to find a gas station and they all had insane
lines (hours) if you could even find a gas station that was open AND had gas.
All of those gas stations were 30+ minutes away from my house. Nothing in my
part of the city (Heights, which is nearby downtown) was open at all. This
might not have been an issue for some, but I had lived in the city for about a
month and knew nothing but my neighborhood and now I couldn't use GPS or look
up anything unless I was at work.

I had never really considered that some emergency like that would happen and
that there still had to remain some normalcy of life (like waking up and going
to work). I actually had to have my friend mail me food/items a few times
because I was still able to get packages, I just had no idea when power in my
area would be restored.

It was definitely an eye opener. Also property theft was incredibly rampant.
There were times I had to sit on my balcony and watch my neighbors places
because so many people left town and looters were looking for places with no
people present. If you saw the popular "You loot I shoot :(" picture of the
destroyed house from Houston during Ike, that was a block from my house.

I remember after about a 10 days the CVS down the block from me opened up as I
was driving by. I ran in and left with about 10 boxes of Gushers and other
random fruit chew type foods because all of their perishables were bad and
candy was all that was left. But at least I had something to eat.

edit: TC Jester/Washington you loot I shoot image;
[https://xnomad.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/17-09-08_1931.jpg...](https://xnomad.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/17-09-08_1931.jpg?w=980&h=980&crop=1)

~~~
gremlinsinc
The funny thing is..we lost power during Hurricane IKE too.... the jetstream
went straight north then dropped down into cincy/dayton Ohio... we were
without power for two weeks.. it's the only time I ever remember being touched
by a Hurricane in land-locked Ohio. The nearest ocean is 15 hours away.

~~~
swozey
Ouch. I moved from Florida to Houston, so I was used to hurricanes and didn't
even care. I remember watching the news and that guy in the bear costume
dancing on Galveston beach before my power went out for the 2-3 weeks. The
power went out and I just hopped on my phone and used it until the battery
died. No concern at all for power conservation or anything.

Little did I know the entire TX power infrastructure is above ground and just
ready to be decimated by wind.

[https://youtu.be/JLykQrCLKE8](https://youtu.be/JLykQrCLKE8)

------
gotthemwmds
Having lived on big fault lines my entire life (Salt Lake City and Seattle), I
have been trained from kindergarten on about what to do in an earthquake.

In the closet of my 7th floor apartment I have 1 small-ish backpack full of a
handful of useful things like a crank weather radio and some flashlights (all
bought on clearance over the years). I also have an orange home depot bucket
full of non-perishable, high-calorie food I got off Amazon. And a few cases of
water. It takes up about 15% of my closet. I bet I could make the food/water
last for a month if I had to.

So the answer is yes! But not everyone did earthquake drills four times a year
during 12 years of public school... I am 33.

~~~
danso
What does your food supply consist of? MREs, or things like peanut butter?

~~~
gotthemwmds
Similar to MRE, I guess. I honestly haven't eaten one. I got them via the
advice of a sorta crazy friend of mine who has a bunker full of similar things
(and guns) on his farmland.

------
jamestomasino
We keep an emergency "go bag" in the front hall closet with tools necessary
for basic survival. Included in that are 6 weeks worth of MREs for the family,
water filtration system, water storage (fill it in a tub), rope, shovel, saw,
first-aid kits, blankets, and so on.

Whatever the situation may be, whether natural, political, or zombie-related,
we can grab that and hit the road knowing we have the basics.

~~~
cschep
How big/heavy is that bag? As someone that doesn't know much about this topic,
that seems like an enormous amount of food!

~~~
Ensorceled
My bag weighs 35 lbs. It's two weeks of food for two people, 3 litres of water
and a bunch of stuff like a radio, flashlight, water purification kit etc.

------
protomyth
I live in ruralish North Dakota so yes as having less that a week's worth of
food in the winter is pretty poor planning. Get some stuff that you can eat
without power. Plenty of places sell kits. Get something to purify water and
get a radio and flash light (or lantern) with a dynamo and get a solar USB
charger. Power bricks for USB are great.

If you own a home, get a Honda generator and keep some extra gas around (pour
in car to rotate).

------
rabboRubble
1) 3 days emergency food and water supply

2) Slowly building up a emergency cash fund. Every time I take money from the
ATM, I peel off $5-10 and deposit in this fund.

3) Have financial, insurance documents with the emergency kit to be evacuated
with me if required.

4) Hodge-podge of other things like caffeine pills, clean underwear, anti-
inflammatory meds, feminine hygiene products, safety gloves, etc.

5) Offsite data back up for complete destruction of technical gear.

6) Recovery plan for loss of living accommodation & technology stored 1,000
miles away in my parents' fireproof safe.

7) Full estate plan in case I'm dead.

These are just some of the things I've got in place.

------
Symbiote
I don't have anything prepared. It doesn't seem necessary, either when I lived
in the UK or now in Denmark. About the only natural disaster in either country
is flooding, and that's usually a slow affair.

Does anyone in boring-no-disasters Europe make any emergency preparations?

I get the impression half the Americans here can't wait for some disaster; a
chance to prove their mettle and lead their family into the mountains to
survive for a week on army rations and purified water, while shooting wild
bears and anyone who approaches.

~~~
alva
I don't do any prepping myself, but I do not dismiss those who do. All of our
systems are unbelievably complex and interconnected that I do not think it
would take that much for things to go sour quickly.

Seems like the cause would be something that initially appears trivial. Less
Zombie apocalypse or rogue government, more like infrastructure hack, big and
sudden recession or drastic oil shortage. In the oil example, much of the
systems of society would be put under sever stress. Perhaps we could endure it
without any societal breakdown, but it would be tough keeping society running
with mass food, transport and power shortages. Our governments make extensive
plans to deal with these situations.

The stability of even first world countries is not so high as we might assume.
"Every nation is about nine meals from anarchy"

~~~
masonic

      Our governments make extensive plans to deal with these situations
    

Really? Look how long it's taken multiple layers of government (especially the
Federal government) to deal with the Flint water crisis or the Animas river
disaster... despite having no disaster-introduced transportation or resource
barriers.

~~~
alva
I certainly think they make plans thinking it will help. Whether or not their
plans are any good, especially in regard to supreme complexity, is my point. I
have serious reservations.

------
Yetanfou
We have fruit trees and berry bushes, the produce of which ends up canned and
jarred and dried. We bake our own bread and as such generally have about 30kg
of wheat flour in storage. In the barn there is about 100kg of oats, meant for
horses but edible to humans. Add to that another 20-30kg of rice and pasta and
we're set for carbohydrates. Cheese and eggs and (extruded) soy provide
proteins (my wife is vegetarian so we generally don't eat meat, even though
I'm the one mostly responsible for food preparation) but the forest is full of
additional protein (deer, elk, boar, etc.) ready for the taking in case of
emergency. Water comes from our own dug well which is not dependent on
electricity. The house is heated using a wood-burning stove and a wood-burning
cooking stove, also not dependent on electricity.

If power fails - which it does quite often here in the Swedish woods - we can
live more or less like we're used to. If the power failure lasts longer than a
few days we'd have to empty the freezers (containing fish and some venison,
vegetarian wife notwithstanding - Bambi got stuck in the fencing so what could
we do?) and salt the contents. Yes, we have a 30kg bag of (road) salt handy
for those occasions, it doubles as dishwasher salt.

I don't consider what we do 'prepping', just common sense in that we reduce
the amount of external dependencies to a minimum.

Someone mentioned guns but failed to mention his domicile. I assume that to be
the USA given the insistence on having such. Sweden also has a fairly high
number of guns (a bit more than 30 per 100 inhabitants) but the USA is in
another league (more than 110 per 100 inhabitants) [1]. Most guns in Sweden
are hunting rifles, the number of hand guns is relatively small. A hunting
rifle is good for hunting but not that useful for threatening a group of
people as the first shot fired will most likely also be the last. In the USA
the number of hand guns is a lot higher and with that it is more likely to be
confronted by someone carrying such, possibly necessitating a defence against
this threat. Having a gun is not the same as being able and willing to use a
gun. Having a gun but not being willing or able to use it carries the
potential of having said gun being used against you. In that case you'd be
better of without one.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_c...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country)

------
sleet
Here's a site published by the NZ government. The advice seems fairly
reasonable.

[http://getthru.govt.nz/how-to-get-ready](http://getthru.govt.nz/how-to-get-
ready)

~~~
protomyth
North Dakota DOT [https://www.dot.nd.gov/divisions/maintenance/winter-
preparat...](https://www.dot.nd.gov/divisions/maintenance/winter-
preparation.htm)

North Dakota Department of Emergency Services
[https://www.nd.gov/des/get/severe-winter-
weather/](https://www.nd.gov/des/get/severe-winter-weather/)

The photo on the last link tends to point out the problem

[edit: you haven't truly driven until you've attached a red flag to the front
of your car (at an angle pointing forward) to warn people at a 4 way that
there is a car]

------
niels_olson
I evacuated a family of 4 for Katrina, handled antiterrorism for an aircraft
carrier after 9/11, and deployed to Japan for Fukushima.

This will not be a 'canned food' sort of catastrophe. That's sillyness. People
on this thread haven't thought through real catastrophes. Democracy works when
we work together. Go talk to people. Make friends. That's what you're going to
need. That's what we allneed.

------
sjtgraham
This will get downvoted into oblivion, but here is some advice:

\- Don't talk about prepping openly, you're making yourself into a target if
things go south.

\- If you're going to prep make sure you have firearms, or don't bother. Know
how to use them or you'll just be prepping for someone else.

~~~
driverdan
> If you're going to prep make sure you have firearms, or don't bother.

That's foolish. Most scenarios you prep for (eg extended power outage) do not
require firearms. That is an extreme situation.

------
elevensies
Personally I have some canned food that I just don't find all that appealing,
which I could eat if I needed to. Probably enough to get through a week. What
I don't have, but I'd like to have, is a reserve of fresh water. A plastic 5
gallon carboy would be enough. I also have my hiking, camping, and skiing
equipment which I could use inside my apartment if the heat went out in the
winter for an extended period ... although after a day at -20 I'd probably
start burning books and furniture. I also try to keep at least 1000 cash on
hand at all times, and try to refill my meds when I still have 1 week left.

------
eachro
The easiest thing to do is to get in the habit of buying an extra can of food
every time you go grocery shopping. After a few months of this, you'll have a
decent stockpile for emergencies.

~~~
protomyth
....and be a smart person and throw away what is expired. Check regularly.

~~~
Yetanfou

       ....and be a smart person and throw away what is expired
    

I understand what you mean but the advice to 'throw away what is expired' is
just plain silly. Throw away what has spoiled, use the rest. Make sure to
rotate your storage - first in first out - and use what you rotate out. Expiry
dates are theoretical limits, not absolute cut-offs. This goes for not only
food but also for medicines, most pharmaceuticals work just fine after the
expiry date [1].

[1] [http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-
expiratio...](http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/drug-expiration-
dates-do-they-mean-anything)

~~~
protomyth
I had a friend who used a couple of cans in his emergency stash a while after
the expire date. He then had two problems. It does pay to look after what you
stash. If nothing else just rotate stuff so you don't run into problems.

~~~
Symbiote
Unless the seal is broken (and then you'd really know), old canned food is OK
to eat. It might taste a bit dull, but it won't harm you.

At least in Europe, canned food is labelled "best before [date]" rather than
"use by [date]".

------
driverdan
You might want to check out /r/preppers, they're generally rational
[https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/)

Evaluate the risks for where you live and have the appropriate supplies. In
the Bay Area, for example, you should be ready for a large earthquake. You
should also be ready for common scenarios such as extended utility outages.

------
DanBC
I do a minimal amount of prepping. I always have 1 weeks worth of bottled
drinking water. I try to always have one weeks worth of tinned food. I'm
thinking of buying MRE style long lasting self heating packs.

I have a couple of boxes of candles, and a couple of boxes of matches.

I have a very basic fist aid kit.

My county flooded a few years ago and it caused a bit of havoc, even for
houses that were untouched by floods.

------
eip
People could learn a lot from Mormons. They haven't forgotten the importance
of planning for survival. In the US the 3 main disaster scenarios with high
likelihood are:

1\. New Madrid earthquake. If a 7.9 magnitude earthquake (same as quake in New
Zealand today) hit's the New Madrid fault quite a few links between east and
west would be severed that could take months to repair. Up to 15 nuclear
reactors would go offline possibly permanently. This would cause long term
power outages on a wide scale.

2\. A Carrington level CME.

3\. The end of the petrodollar slavery system.

Any of these events would cause major and probably permanent lifestyle changes
for the survivors. Having food and water is important but having a plan to get
more food and water is more important. Having a gun is useful not only for
self defense but also so you have an easy way out should it come to that.

------
slr555
Preparing for natural disasters and emergencies is a reasonable facet of life
strategy. Disaster preparedness can be useful when more conventional
strategies for dealing with life needs (education, a good career, saving) are
temporarily less viable in the face of extreme conditions. I say this because
prepping is part of a life plan not the entirety of a life plan.

Many of the lists that exist are useful places to start. 3 days of food and
water, utility shut off tools, flashlights (don't forget the extra batteries)
and the like are good basics. Prescription medications are often overlooked in
preparations. Waste disposal and sanitation can also be issues if one has to
shelter in place in an urban setting.

This post could turn quickly into a TLDR nightmare so let me throw out a few
more specialized items I like that are beyond the basics:

1\. Auerbach's Wilderness Medicine. This massive two volume text is the gold
standard for medicine in austere environments. It comes with online access
which makes wading through it much easier.

2\. Powerfilm solar collapsible solar panel. The US military uses these
panels. They are well made and durable. They are expensive but it's better to
have one of these that works instead of a cheapy that doesn't.

3\. Multi-tool and sturdy folding knife. The ability to cut and shape things
as well as apply torque can be extremely invaluable.

4\. There are a lot of engineers on this site. A basic HAM license is easy to
get and in some areas HF is a reasonable alternative to modern networks.

5\. A friend who went through Katrina as a surgeon at a level 1 trauma center
said sat phones lose utility quickly as media outlets tend to lock up
bandwidth.

6\. Plastic sheeting - A few rolls of 8-10 mil plastic sheeting

7\. MSR Dromedary Bags - Love them. You can go a long time without food. Water
not so much.

Don't forget your brain. Lots of smart people here on HN. Think about
contingencies. How will I leave if there if there is no gasoline? Where will I
meet my loved ones if we are separated? What do I have that will be valuable
if for some period of time cash is not so valuable? Are my preparations easy
to access and have I practiced with any items that require skill such as fire
building or water purification?

Don't get lost in the rabbit hole. List the conditions you are realistically
likely to encounter and plan for those. If you live in Hays, Kansas plan for
tornadoes not terrorism.

------
pmoriarty
Just out of curiosity, what percentage of preppers do you think would share
their horde of supplies with their neighbors?

How many of them would stick around and volunteer to help others in need
rather than run away to their shelters to save themselves?

------
50CNT
One thing that's really useful is Weck Jars[0]. They're reusable glass jars
with a rubber seal you put food in, then you boil them in water. This
disinfects the food, and creates a hermetic seal. From what I've heard they've
found Weck jars that were decades old, and when opened, they were still edible
(even though taste suffered a little). They're also generally handy, because
with some jars and a large stockpot for canning, you can have any dish within
15 minutes (cook noodles, drain, add butter to pot, add noodles back in, pour
in 1 jar of goulash).

Disclaimer: They were founded in my home village of 150 people, so I'm a bit
of a Weck shill.

Then there's staples that keep for a while. Rice, Beans, Flour, dry Noodles.
Special mention to potatoes, which are delicious and rich in Vitamin C. Salt
is also very handy.

Then, cans you can buy pre-canned. Sauerkraut, Pickles, etc.

Without using too much space, this can easily last you a month or two, and you
can set up a revolving pantry. Most important, it adds convenience even
without a disaster occuring.

Water prep is something that you generally don't have to do till there is a
disaster. It's prudent to keep around some water disinfecting tablets or a jug
of Chlorine. Interesting fact, if you're in a pinch, your hot water heater
will contain up to 50 gallons of potable water. Shut off the inflow valve and
open a faucet to access it.

Medical supplies are also something to think about. Antibiotics, gauze,
suturing kits, disinfectant.

Tools. A full set of tools may come in handy in case of supply-chain
breakdown. They're also handy in case of other breakdowns.

Power. You could look at getting a small gasoline powered generator. Or
installing solar with some kind of powerbank. If you're going for full off-
grid power, cooling&heating generally use the most power. Ditch the AC,
install ceiling fans, replace your fridge with a chest freezer and a brewing
thermometer.

Arms. You got yourself a gun, yo I'm living in these times behind enemy
lines...decide whether that's something you need.

Knowledge. Go buy some manuals, keep them as physical copies or on an e-reader
with a solar charger, or both. The entirety of the English Wikipedia can be
compressed down to about 55GB[1]. Go take some courses.

[0][http://www.weckjars.com/products.php](http://www.weckjars.com/products.php)
[1][http://wiki.kiwix.org/wiki/Main_Page](http://wiki.kiwix.org/wiki/Main_Page)

~~~
DrScump
What about oxidation (if you aren't doing something like nitrogen flushin)?

~~~
50CNT
Flavor may suffer after a year, or 10. But there's no bacteria left to go
through with the usual rotting process.

------
internaut
Order some boxes of MREs. I think most people in the world should have have a
month's supply or more.

~~~
gravypod
You definitely don't want to eat MREs every day for a month. You can't only
have MREs.

Just ask any guy who was stuck in some shithole in their service about what
happens after you eat MREs for 2-3 days strait.

Commercial MREs should be fine, not military ones.

~~~
danielvf
I took only ex-military MRE entrees with me as meals for six days of hiking in
the wilderness. I'm alive, but I'm never doing that again. Yuck!

~~~
gravypod
It's not so much what goes in, or what comes out.... more what doesn't come
out.

MREs are for combat situations. Lots of the things you need to stay awake,
run, fight, and survive. Not much of the stuff you need to live a day to day
with.

