
How I Beat Depression - scottcha
http://hackerhmb.tumblr.com/post/45169323236/how-i-beat-depression
======
dkarl
I would say the suggestion to work with a doctor should be struck and replaced
with a suggestion to work with a psychotherapist or psychiatrist. Doctors
(other than psychiatrists) are not trained to deal with mental illness beyond
diagnosis and prescription. You'll need to see a doctor if you want to try
drugs, but the only reason to have an ongoing relationship with a doctor is so
you can try different drugs if the first one they prescribe you doesn't work.

Your doctor _might_ provide helpful counseling, but then again, so might a
teacher, clergyman, friend, or any other untrained person. (I suppose these
are all worth trying if you know one who might help you.)

Psychotherapists, on the other hand, dedicate their professional lives to
EXACTLY what you want: relief of suffering from mental illness. It isn't an
exact science, and your therapist's particular background, talents, and
personality make a big difference, so it isn't like there's a professional
qualification that guarantees good results, but at least their professional
goals, training, and experience aim at what you need instead of at something
else entirely.

~~~
DanBC
In the UK the family doctor (GP) acts as a gatekeeper to other services. Thus,
seeing your doctor is excellent advice for people in the UK who are depressed.
Your general point - don't get the treatment from a regular doctor - is a good
point.

In theory you should get a quick assessment, and then a referral to PCAT team
(Primary Care Assessment and Treatment) - these people will either take you on
for short form talking therapy (probably cognitive behaviour therapy) with
possibly some medication; or they'll refer you on to a community team; or
they'll send you back to the GP.

The doctor may skip the PCAT referral and send you straight to a community
team. They'll do an assessment and either take you on, or send you back to the
GP with advice for treatment.

If a community team take you on you'll get a care coordinator, a care plan, a
consultant (psychiatrist), and access to different meds and different
therapies. Frustratingly, you might not be allowed access to short form CBT
while registered with a community team. If you need hospital you'll get
hospital.

In an emergency the GP will just call the crisis team for you (in theory
crisis teams are available to anyone who needs them at any time, but it's
usually better to go though a GP unless the crisis team already know you). The
crisis team will assess you for a stay in hospital (either informally
(voluntarily) or under section of the MHA (detained against your will to
protect your safety)).

Of course, that's the theory and often the practice differs.

And, you can avoid some of that process by getting a private psychotherapist.
Look for BACP registration. (There are probably other good registration, but
BACP is the one I know.)

About psychiatrist:

I've met lots of psychiatrists.

They've almost always been "odd".

To become a psychiatrist in the UK you need to do the regular medical school.
That turns you from a medical student into a doctor. (But not a doctor that
can practice unsupervised.) You then do Foundation Year One and FY Two. (This
is practice, supervised, in hospitals etc.) You then become a registrar.
Eventually you become a consultant in your chosen speciality, which gives you
the power to practice unsupervised.

All of this means that you have great, up to date, in depth knowledge of
modern treatments and medications. It also means you're a bit of a basket case
to make it through that process. Your bedside manner is likely to be
interesting.

I'd strongly recommend people avoid psychiatrists unless the illness is severe
or resistant to other forms of treatment.

As always: I am not a doctor and I have no training and all of this is just my
opinion and etc etc.

------
dpapathanasiou
Exercise is incredibly important b/c of all the positive neurochemical effects
it produces.

But if you're exercising by yourself, it's easy to skip it, especially if
you're already feeling down.

It's better to take part in some kind of team or class activity where there's
a little bit of social pressure to show up.

There will be mornings when you think, "I don't want to go, but I don't want
to let those guys down," and so you wind up doing it.

~~~
j_baker
Exercise is almost never a bad idea. However, the evidence that it helps with
depression has recently come under question:
[http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120822-does-exercise-
help-...](http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20120822-does-exercise-help-
depression)

------
rip747
this is the biggest misconception when it comes to clinical depression... that
you can or did beat it. You can never or will never beat clinical depression,
only suppress it. Beating something is finite and means that it can never
happen again. The author gives great advice in the article about what steps he
did to suppress this bout of depression, though if he doesn't stay the course
chances are it will come back. The scary thing about clinical depression is,
even if you continue to do the things that worked in the past to suppress it,
it can still come back.

The one piece of advice that he doesn't give (or he might have and i'm just
not catching it) is realizing that you have to listen to the people around you
when they tell you that you look depressed. At that point, you need to get
help immediately so you don't fall further down the hole.

btw... I'm not a doctor or anything. Let's just say that I have extensive
experience with clinical depression and bipolar disorder.

~~~
pragone
I came here to say something similar - you do not "get over" clinical
depression caused by a biochemical imbalance in your brain. It does not get
fixed without making biochemical changes to your brain.

The advice the author gives is very sound advice (exercise, for example, does
indeed induce biochemical changes in your brain), but without first becoming
convinced of the advantages of getting treated, and taking the time to
understand how those treatments effect you and how you need to actively
participate in them, the rest of his suggestions are near impossible to follow
through on.

The stigma around psychological and psychiatric care do not help the
situation; however, the numerous stories on these issues here on HN I do hope
shed some light on those that are still suffering without help to know that
there always is a chance to get better, and it can be as easy as calling your
doctor or telling your friend you need help. Or even talking to one of us here
who have been suffering from depression and suicidal ideations for many years
- I certainly would be more than happy to talk with anyone who is struggling
with these issues.

~~~
darkxanthos
Except exercise _does_ make biochemical changes in the brain. One example:
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3311131/>

~~~
duaneb
I don't know why someone downvoted you, that's an excellent point. I think
that in some subset of people currently requiring medication, some may be able
to replace it with exercise to successfully treat it. I don't know about other
people, but though I need both medication and exercise, the latter makes me
feel discernibly much better. The medication just gets me out of bed and into
my running shoes.

------
michaelwww
There are different shades of depression, some more manageable than others. I
don't think medical science (or anyone) has figured out the worst of it yet.
Author David Foster Wallace before his suicide: "The so-called 'psychotically
depressed' person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote
'hopelessness' or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not
square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in
whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself
the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a
burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows.
Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would
be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out
the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is
the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling
to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring
the fall; it's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk,
looking up and yelling 'Don't!' and 'Hang on!', can understand the jump. Not
really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really
understand a terror way beyond falling."

------
petercooper
Cognitive behavioral therapy is also very effective in many cases (and can
work on its own without medication, depending on the situation).

~~~
richardlblair
I'm a huge fan of CBT. Recent studies have shown that if a person is dedicated
to CBT it can actually have the same positive effects on the brain as
medication, without the negative effects of medication.

It is important to note, however, that the person must commit.

~~~
rip747
and its also important to note that just because it worked for your buddy
doesn't mean its going to work for you. it also means that just because it
worked one time doesn't mean its going to work the next time. the best thing
to do is to be monitored by a doctor so you can get the medical help right
away if you need it.

~~~
richardlblair
If you are working with any competent professional they should be able to
identify when you will need medical help right away.

There is a huge movement in north america to through drugs at everything. In
Europe they take an entirely different approach on a lot of front and are
seeing more success than us in those areas (ADD immediately comes to mind)

I'm not against medication, but I am against rushing to medication. I'd much
rather someone try various forms of therapy first. CBT is just one of them,
and happens to be working at a rate equal to or greater than prescription
medication.

Edit: I wanted to thank you for the reply. Discussion surrounding the topic is
critical to progression.

------
Xcelerate
What if you're depressed because you're afraid of death?

(I wouldn't say I'm depressed -- not in the clinical sense anyway; but I do
spend what I imagine is an abnormal amount of time thinking about it because
of mother's passing away when I was younger).

~~~
cbs
_What if you're depressed because you're afraid of death?_

In that case, you shouldn't take any advice from HN unless that advice is to
talk to a professional.

It's a lot like legal advice, sure people on the internet can talk about the
issues, but they're probably wrong and even if they're right it's still unwise
to take what they say at face value. The people with the professional capacity
to help you can't do it well online for all the obvious reasons.

~~~
jnorion
That only partially makes sense. For comments/suggestions found on HN that
have potential side effects, absolutely take them with a grain of salt and
consult a professional... i.e. medication, psychedelics, etc.

But for some of the suggestions, the advice is fantastic. Exercise more? Eat
healthier foods at regular intervals? Practice positive thinking about the
world and your life? Any one of them could help. ALL of them could help. And
they can't hurt. Take every piece of "no-strings-attached" advice you can...
and then ALSO consult a professional.

------
bpatrianakos
I don't think one can actually _beat_ depression but instead only really cope
with the symptoms. I know that sounds awful and kind of defeatist (and I could
be wrong) but I think the idea that you can actually conquer this disease sets
you up for failure.

I first noticed my own depression when I was just a 13 year old kid and first
sought help just before the end of high school. I've been through the entire
range of emotion from hopelessness to being suicidal and through it all I was
always most upset that I couldn't actually beat it. I would try and fight so
hard to make it just go away permanently and be like "normal" people but it
just never happened. I eventually took to self medicating and became a
polydrug abusing heroin addict for about 5 years.

Five years later I realize that, for me, there is no "beating" it. There's
just learning to cope with it. Before I realized this my main focus was trying
to make the terrible way I felt just go away and to be happy. Now, rather than
fight it, I work around it. I realize that a negative mood or feeling of
worthlessness is not objectively true but instead just part of the sickness
just like the author here says.

In addition to most of what this post talked about I would say the most
important thing is knowledge of self. To recognize and realize that what
you're experiencing at any given time is really a complete distortion of
reality is step one to recovering. Then to know what triggers those thoughts
and knowing what works best for you in terms of mitigating them is the
ultimate goal (with the understanding, of course, that you may not be able to
completely defeat the experience but certainly minimize it). I learned these
things and now, five years later, I still have depression but it's not
debilitating. Whenever it decides to come around I'm able to push it aside
completely or mitigate those symptoms and I've been able to do that because
I've built the kind of lifestyle where people rely on me and I'm often running
from one activity to another. Some might say it sounds like running from the
disease but really my busy lifestyle is what keeps it at bay. Rather than
having the time to dwell on how awful life is and how worthless of a person I
am, at worst I'll have thoughts like "shit, now I have to go do this thing and
I totally suck at it and everyone hates me" which isn't exactly a great
thought but certainly beats being alone thinking of killing yourself and when
I finally reach my destination and do whatever I need to do I've proven to
myself that whatever I was thinking before was just plain wrong. Again, that's
a worst case scenario. I've gotten to a point now where thoughts like that are
the minority thankfully.

So I'd just hope anyone else struggling with clinical depression is able to
take a step back and evaluate their own thinking, understanding their own
vulnerabilities and coping mechanisms in addition to seeking out lots of
professional help (and yeah, exercising is amazing for this disease).

~~~
davidtanner
I've suffered from MDD and tried to kill myself several times, the last
attempt was very serious and I almost did die.

Now, almost a decade later and I think I can say I _have_ "beaten" depression.
The cure? Time, therapy, loving intimate relationships and judicious use of
psychedelics.

~~~
drumdance
I'm curious about the psychedelics, can you share more? What drugs? How often?

~~~
davidtanner
If you explore my previous comments and submissions you'll find some
information about these matters.

In summary, there are a great deal of published resources about psychedelics,
but they tend to be inaccessible to those without a good deal of psychedelic
experience coupled with a penchant for reading academic or esoteric
literature. Thus, for largely sociological reasons, most 'typical' modern
users of psychedelics are not at all schooled in academic knowledge about
them. On the other hand, the vast majority of systematizing, intelligent,
intellectual types do not have sufficient experience with these compounds to
really understand or effectively critique the literature about them.

So I'll mention a few quality sources that, if you study them, will almost
assuredly arouse your curiosity:

* The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide (published book)

* The Antipodes of the Mind (published book)

* The Journal of Psychoactive Drugs (not just about psychedelics)

* Tryptamines I Have Known and Loved (published book, of particular edification and interest are the essays that precede the synthesis portion of the text)

* The research done by the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)

LSD has proven itself to be quiet beneficial in social situations many times
in my life. For example, while 'up' on a moderate dose of high quality LSD, I
watched a very attractive guy play guitar and sing at a house show. This led
to me having an amazing fantasy experience days later where I finally started
to deeply connect to my sexual desire for other men. This precipitated my
decision to affirm my bisexual inclinations and pursue them, thus overthrowing
years of internalized shame and confusion regarding this issue.

DMT and other very potent tryptamines have also proven to be potentially
valuable in my experience. For example, while under the influence of a
powerful dose of an orally administered research chemical tryptamine, I
literally was able to relive my previous suicide attempt and forgive myself
for such self destructive violence in a very deep and healing way. Words
literally can't describe the true magnitude of the experience and the positive
after effects are still in my life and personality years later.

Not very often but not infrequently either.

~~~
drumdance
Thank you for sharing this.

------
RockofStrength
There are reasonably priced sunlamps that I hear good things about in the
treatment of depression. Also, use common sense: pursue positive people (and
avoid negative), exercise (no matter how lightly), eat healthy, pursue goals
(no matter how trivial). There are multiple avenues to happiness, and pursue
the ones that your body responds to.

------
djan92
Hello,

Can anyone provide any advice on how to help a friend through depression? I
met this friend about a month and half ago and he recently opened up to me
about his depression. He's been in and out of depression since high school
(about three years I think; he is currently on medications and getting help;
he's reached out to me first (we're studying abroad in Asia) and I would like
to help in anyway possible. My questions are:

1) How much do I reach out and ask to hang out/eat/etc.? 2) What are the
boundaries I should be aware of? Should I bring up the depression and ask him
how he's doing every day? other day? week? 3) Any general advice (I went
through semi-depression for about 6 months, but it was not anywhere near as
drastic) (I also helped a friend through depression last year which was almost
suicidal)

Thank you. I appreciate any advice you can provide.

~~~
newplagiarist
Having a strong social support network is a good foundation for dealing with
depression. My best advice to you is just be available for when he wants to
talk. Let him know that if he ever needs to talk, be it day or night, you're
there for him and that he can call you. Thoughts of suicidal ideation or self-
harm can come at any time and he will need someone to talk to during those
times.

Onto your other questions. The amount of time that he spends hanging out with
any individual won't matter too much; having him be in company with people he
enjoys several times a week is what is key. What this means is, it doesn't
have to be you particularly but if he is hanging-out with others at least 2 or
3 times a week it would be beneficial.

The only boundaries that exist are the ones he implements. Generally, you'll
just need to ask him how he's doing and not 'remind' him of his depression
everyday, but how often you do that should be down to him to decide.

The best piece of advice I can give, is to observe him. If there is a drastic
change in behavior or energy level, that is when you need to intervene and
either try to get him to talk or just get him out of the house.

Overall, the above article is a good basis for coping with depression. The
author hinted at, but never explicitly said, two key points that I feel the
need to reiterate. If your friend is taking medication or is thinking about
medication it can take awhile to take effect, on the magnitude of weeks or
months, and that not all depression medication is the same - if one pill isn't
working move onto others. Second, if your friend is seeing a therapist, again,
not all therapist are the same. If he is not connecting with the therapist
personally then his treatment is going to be much less effective.

I hope that helps.

~~~
djan92
Thank you very much - I really appreciate your advice. He recently switched
medication, and I'll ask him if he's noticed any changes yet. Thank you.

------
gesman
It's impossible to "think yourself" out of depression or "do something good"
out of depression, unless it's just a temporary down mood.

The way I beat depression is by doing pure mental exercises on focusing on the
actual physical areas of the body where depression is felt, without trying to
change/fight/eliminate the feeling itself.

I came up with this technique during lowest point of my life and was almost
shocked how fast I moved from suicidal to almost fully content state.

This proved to be very powerful technique as it dissolved pain at it's roots.
The speed of that approach for me was like taking antibiotics compare to
taking vitamins.

I can also second advice on exercise and better eating habits.

~~~
bithive123
It sounds like you independently discovered mindfulness meditation. Good for
you!

~~~
gesman
I actually practiced mindfullness meditation with, lets say it, zero results.
The method I used is more, like: "love your enemy" or rather "love your pain",
or more precisely be aware of the areas of the body which are feeling pain.
Negative thoughts are just light energy sparks causing pain within the body.
This bodily pain is heavier, more resident energy that could become alive on
it's own, even without further thinking. It was really frustrating to me to
wake up in the beautiful morning and within 2 seconds feel heavy wave of
depression dawning on me again. I didn't even had time to think and was
wondering why it is happening to be. Until i realized that depression lives in
the body, not in the mind. Once I started paying attention to the body, the
depressive thoughts and depressive emotions starts to disappear. This is more
what Eckhart Tolle was writing about, albeit without specifics that I added to
my practice.

As i started to see results - I started having fun with it, like looking for
negative emotional reactions within me on different thoughts or situations and
then frying and washing these emotions off and away by applying the method.

------
ohwp
Maybe this will help someone: A lot of times suicidal thoughts are not about a
death wish but about a wish for silence in your head. I think realizing this
can make a difference. Whatever the case: don't be ashamed, get help.

------
richardlblair
I'm really happy that these posts are getting onto the front page. They are
very important.

I want to add one thing. Working with a doctor is important, but work with a
psychologist as well. Especially if you are resistant to going on meds (and I
don't blame you if you are...). A good psychologist may be able to offer you
treatment options that better suit your needs.

Also, if you aren't getting what you need from your Dr or Psychologist then
move on and find a new one. Keep doing this until you find someone who
genuinely cares about you, and wants to work with you to get you feeling
better.

~~~
roflc0ptic
Medications obviously aren't for everyone, and certainly there's no one size
fits all medication, but as someone who tried several medications that
interfered with my clarity of mind, finding Wellbutrin has made a real
difference for me. It works along a different pathway than other anti-
depressants. It's known to increase focus. Rather than feeling like I was
experiencing the world through gauze, I feel more... like me, sans the
crippling depression.

YMMV, but I find that every (exceedingly legitimate) objection I have towards
medication simply became immaterial in the face of feeling better.

~~~
cdjk
Feeling "more like yourself" is one of the more common descriptions of what it
feels like to be on a medication that's working. I'm glad you found something
that worked and you're feeling better.

~~~
Evbn
I always feel like myself, and myself is always changing. I just prefer the
versions of myself that aren't bleeding profusely or have eye-burning headache
or dizziness when I stand up or lower back pain or etc etc

------
adfadf
Just a couple of notes on the medication part:

Yes, you will probably feel worse during the first couple of weeks of the
regimen. This is common enough that your prescribing doctor should warn you
about it, and s/he should set up some way of monitoring your progress -
appointments twice a week for the first month or something like that. It
should also be clear from the documentation that comes with the pills.

Second, you should only change your medication after consulting with your
doctor. In this case it looks like the course was "I took the meds for six
months, and then I felt better so I stopped", which is not recommended. The
relapse rate is significantly lowered if you take the meds until you have no
symptoms + 6 months (or longer, if it isn't your first depression).

Third, it really is very recommended to slowly taper of the medication and not
go cold turkey. The side effects will be much worse if you just stop. Also,
the relapse rate. Once again, discuss any planned changes in your medication
with your doctor.

------
pawnhearts
I've been fighting depression since one year ago and I'd like to share my
story with you guys and hope to get some warming advices. Quick introduction:
I've always been a self-educated about computer science, but my mother always
wanted to see me studying in a _regular/acknowledged_ way. When I turned 25, I
started feeling very bad: my career in information technology was going really
good and since I didn't passed through the academical stages (exams,
graduation, etc) I felt like I didn't really deserve such professional "glory"
(sorry for quick and dirt english).

So I decided to join the university: I started passing exams, and finally I
could go to bed with a clear conscience! One year ago I received a job offer
from a big enterprise, a job that could have change my life. This job (9h/5d)
would not allow me to continue my university career and they gave me one week
to decide. It was really hard, and in the end I refused that job.

My odyssey begins from this point. I had a panic attack on the first day of
university after my choice, a huge panic attack that I thought: "I'm gonna
die". After that event, my condition degenerated: I was no longer able to go
out from my house, neither going downstairs to feed the dog. Everytime I went
outside, I had a panic attack, it was a nightmare. Because of this hard form
of agoraphobia I was neither able to go out and see a psychiatrist. I also
developed tinnitus in my left ear and a painful hypochondria.

It took about 4/5 months before I realized the actual cause of my depression:
in this age of economical crisis, when people commits suicides for not being
able to pay debts, I rejected a permanent full-time contract. After this
realization, my condition started going slightly better: I had no more panic
attacks and I was able to go out with my gf and my friends.

At the time of this writing, one year after my first crisis, I'm still not
able to go to places with many people, ot taking a train, or staying away from
home for too long.

I see that such a condition is common to many computer programmers, I think
that alienation caused by working on computers make things worse. At some
point, I also considered the option of giving up with computer science, but
it's not possible, it's really the only thing I can do.

I'm still fighting depression, I'm still not able to answer the questions
"where would you be now to be happy?" , "what would you be doing now to be
happy?". It's really sad when you can't answers these questions. Is it ever
happened to you? How did you behave?

~~~
ZenoArrow
I'm sorry to hear about your predicament pawnhearts. Have you managed to get
to a counsellor yet?

~~~
pawnhearts
Not yet, ZenoArrow.

I'm "fear of fear", and I can't be strong enough to face up regular life
situations. And I have to find a solution, I have to find the strenght to do
something before summer comes. Hot wheter increases depression.

At the moment I'm trying to work less and study/read/distract more. I spend
great time on the road by car on my own or with my girlfriend, going nowhere
and listening to some music I used to listen when everything "was fine".

Some times I can't even remember "how I was" before the whole depression
thing. I look at my old pictures and I think to myself: "I was this guy.
Really? I used to go to concerts, meet a lot of people, everybody used to love
me. Who am I now? And why?"

~~~
ZenoArrow
I'm sorry to hear you have had tough times recently pawnhearts.

I understand that the road to recovery might feel hard to find, but you'll
maximise your chances of finding it if you can get help from others. Please
contact a counsellor. Reaching out for help is a humbling but often vital part
of emotional recovery. If you can please do it today or tomorrow.

One piece of advice I can give you now is that looking back at who you were
and trying to recreate that isn't likely to be helpful to you. Instead,
consider what you can do now to help improve things in the future. If you're
not sure where to start (apart from contacting a counsellor as discussed), can
always start with improving your diet, finding time to exercise and getting
into good habits with your sleep pattern. It's surprising how much our mood is
influenced by these things, and they are simple tasks to focus on.

Best of luck with your recovery. :-)

------
pshin45
_Stay open and allow others to help. Realize you need people around you to who
can be a support network. This is the hardest thing to do when you are
suffering from depression._

Couldn't agree more. When I was suffering from depression, I was so stubborn
about wanting to face it alone and not "force" my friends and family to get
involved, because I'd be becoming even more of a burden to them and to society
than I already felt I was. I just felt this burning sense of shame and
worthlessness at the mere thought of asking for help.

Hackers are admired more than ever, but I think it comes with a price. When
everyone sees you as this superman who can make and do anything and knows
everything, it's gotta make it that much harder to reach out for help.

------
Debugreality
Having read a lot of the comments here there seems to be two main thoughts.
That depression isn't something that can be beaten and that it can be beaten.

Personally I think both camps are right, in many of the cases where people
have beaten depression I think there is a common element be it Cognitive
Behavior Therapy or psychedelics these practices can change your brain.
Meditation can also change your brain significantly and this is how I believe
I have 'beaten' depression.

So no you can't beat depression without changing your brain and changing your
brain can be a risky business and perhaps when you do change your brain you
are no longer the you that was depressed...

------
nasir
The points are good however usually the depressed person can't do anything by
him/herself. In my own case, I was not going out of my house for very long
time and I avoided seeing any people I knew. I did not admit that I am
depressed so I was blaming myself so much which was draining me as well. The
only thing I knew was 'Realize you can get better' and I knew if my certain
problem gets solved then I will get better but I did not have any energy to do
that. After a year I found a girlfriend which helped me a lot on that problem
until it was finished. It was such a tough time!

------
borski
This is a really important post. Something I've noticed is that more people
climb in the Bay Area than anywhere I've ever been before. I wonder if its at
all related to the stress and personalities contained there?

~~~
sbhere
The West is also a great place for climbing (geographically speaking) - far
better than many places I've lived... but I'll also vouch for climbing being a
great activity. Ultimate Frisbee as well.

------
ThinkADRIAN
I think the key to dealing with mental conditions is to
identify/diagnose/recognize it, accept it and work with professionals to learn
to manage it. My own struggle was with acceptance. In my mind, my depression
was due to the label placed on me via diagnosis. It took over a decade to find
the right support system. My advice to those with mental conditions is to
"Never give up!" May sound cliche... Yet although these conditions may not be
curable, they can be manageable.

~~~
ThinkADRIAN
here's an account of my own bout with a mental health condition:

[http://adriancunanan.com/blog/2013/3/12/heres-to-the-
crazy-o...](http://adriancunanan.com/blog/2013/3/12/heres-to-the-crazy-ones)

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beersigns
I'll agree with the working out regularly being good for your health, both
mental and physical. Exercising has gotten me through some tough spots in my
life and it has always been a major coping mechanism.

Another thing that has always worked for me has been laughter. Whether it's
watching a classic movie like Dumb & Dumber, reading reddit/r/funny, or
catching The Colbert Report, laughing eases all the little things that
otherwise might eat you up.

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realsuperman
Everything that makes you happy or sad is in your mind. So I would suggest
that it is not about beating depression but achieving a balance of the two.
One cannot completely eliminate depression type or extreme joy type feelings
from one's life. So it is good to develop a balance that leads to the
understanding that shit happens. But this too shall pass.

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j_baker
One other thing worth noting: consider whether you might actually be bipolar,
especially if antidepressants aren't really working for you or make you worse.
A lot of Bipolar II cases (where manic states aren't as dramatic and
depressive symptoms dominate) are misdiagnosed as unipolar depression.

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zenogais
Walking definitely helps. Last year was a particularly rough one for me in a
lot of ways and just going back to the mountain town where I grew up and
hiking for a few hours in the forest really helped me to change my outlook. I
consider it the most important thing I did.

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zindlerb
Thank you for this post. Your post really rings true for me. I have been
suffering from depression for the past year, but this week has been especially
bad. I hadn't sought help until recently. I have been encountering many of the
things you describe.

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hackquer
Fischer Wallace Cranial Stimulator + Neurotransmitter Supplements (5HTP, etc)

This is worth a try for anyone with depression. There are many different
causes, but brain chemistry can be an issue caused by your lifestyle alone, as
well as other stuff.

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the_economist
Don't forget natural sunlight.

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ko6tas
I am wondering if anyone has tried any online intervention for anxiety or
depression. Some of them have strong theoretical background (like CBT that is
mentioned in another comment). Any impressions?

~~~
mhunts
Online access would make it much more accessible, especially for those who are
introverted and have social anxiety like me.

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pstuart
Matches well with this:
[http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2011/07/18/how-i...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelellsberg/2011/07/18/how-
i-overcame-bipolar-ii/)

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markhall
Great perspective. Question for the HN community: Why/How is it that small
communities like HN have removed the stigma attached with mental health while
larger society has not?

~~~
jnorion
There's a lot less stigma attached when it's a (relatively) anonymous forum,
when you're not face-to-face with the people responding, when you have a large
support group because people who understand and care find YOU (via your
headline) rather than you having to find them, and when someone who responds
in a negative way is likely to get downvoted and called an asshole.

There are probably still people on HN who respond negatively to an admission
of depression, but they're (wisely) keeping quiet.

~~~
cdjk
I've never considered my username here to be particularly anonymous.
Apparently it is, as I just discovered, but anyone who knows me would
recognize my username.

To be honest, the number of people who are open about mental health problems
in posts like this is fairly surprising to me.

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systematical
Try 2+ years of it, unfortunately (for them) someone is going to 1 up me now.

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geldedus
powerful tools for fighting depression: 1) learn to dance and go dancing
regularly (for ex. salsa or tango) 2) take cold showers daily 3) exercise

~~~
mhunts
Why cold showers?

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drivebyacct2
These can be very hard things to do when you're depressed. It helps if you
have someone motivating you. I'm on my way out of a pretty serious slump and
the same things have helped me as this article has described. I've been
surrounded by positive family members, I've been on a generic of Lexapro, I've
been running/jogging/fast-walking two miles a day and I've been reminding
myself that I _didn't_ feel this way a year ago and that in a year I might
feel completely better again.

Anyone who's ever been depressed knows that even on a good day, just
_thinking_ about your depression can evoke panic and sadness and a "relapse".
I'm using the Seinfeld calendar system. I try to keep up a streak of good days
and use that to motivate and reassure me. (Frankly, the fact that I even
clicked on this topic and wrote a comment means I'm feeling better. I had to
skim and mentally skip over much of HN during the weeks after Aaron's suicide.
:( )

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umphetico
Heroin helped me beat my bouts of depression, although the downside being
extremely addictive which seems to bring you right back where you started but
in all honesty, depression is caused by fixation, ironically heroin taught me
how to relax and "let go" of the angst caused by fixation while at the same
time my mind was completely fixated on it. To each his own, you gotta stop
reading about how to cure an illness, you have to act, find meaning even
though it's meaningless.

------
umphetico
Also a more interesting question would be, are people working in startup,
especially single software vendors more susceptible to depression? Look at
Aaron Schwartz guy, all those times he was depressed, look at his increasingly
erratic and tendency towards martyrdom. The pressure from idiot zealots
finally tipped him.

~~~
scottcha
I'm the author of the article and I asked myself this question before I wrote
it. I posted some data here which came out of that research:
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5272763> but it didn't get much
traction. When I compared across disciplines in the original dataset (using
software programmer as the discipline) there wasn't a strong indication that
they were more prone to suicide than other professional jobs. I don't remember
exactly but doctors, lawyers, dentists were toward the top of that list.

One challenge is that the dataset I reference doesn't have data post 1998.
Since our discipline has grown and changed since then a more recent dataset
might show something more interesting.

~~~
umphetico
I think the actual software programmer job working for a company is different
than someone working alone erratic hours, building apps, marketing, selling,
and breaking even. It's quite challenging in itself to produce good software
product let alone selling it and breaking even so it'd be interesting to see
some statistics for single founder startups or micro software vendors.

I would say the stress is the biggest for SaaS type of software products, as
someone posted a video here about "Constant Contact", it's described as the
slow ramp of death because it takes so long and hard to reach that magic
upward slope.

These are all just my magical assumptions based on my own situation and
experience. I'm sure there's ton of positive, empathetic, emotionally
intelligent coder/hacker/entrepreneurs although there's lot of Aspies, who
studies have shown to be greater risk of depression.

~~~
Evbn
Stress (and financial instability) has its own set of health problems, but
that's not depression. Depression has more mundane physical and neurological
causes, whereas stress disorders are caused by the pressures of difficult
lifestyles like running a business on your last nickel or being
ultraompetitive in your career or being a soldier at war.

