
How I got my Japanese permanent residency - polm23
https://www.dampfkraft.com/how-i-got-my-japanese-pr.html
======
jeffrallen
This was an interesting read. The equivalent story for Switzerland would not
be so rosy, unfortunately. I wish we had a points based system here, they seem
like a useful addition of fairness to the fundamentally unfair global
migration situation.

~~~
namdnay
How do points make it “fair”? I’d say points favour those who already have the
privilege of an education.

~~~
AuryGlenz
Countries exist to benefit their citizens. There’s nothing wrong with only
letting the educated.

~~~
microtherion
It's not clear that points systems like this really select for optimal
benefit, though. They tend to be biased toward the qualifications that are
already well represented in the country.

Looking at immigrants I've met, yes, qualifications count for something, but
sheer hustle and ambition can play a role as well, and often those propagate
into the next generation too.

In hiring decisions, I was told to try to select for potential, not
qualifications. Points systems are the classical "select for qualifications"
move.

~~~
rowanG077
Potential can be a part of the point system. You yourself made some sort of
crude scale of potential when you were interviewing people. Nothing wrong with
formalizing that.

~~~
microtherion
I'm not sure how one would formalize it, even less so for the children of
immigrants.

~~~
rowanG077
If you can't be formalize it is is unfair.

~~~
microtherion
Yes, it's considerably harder to administrate such a system in an objective
manner. A points system has the advantage of being objective. But that doesn't
necessarily make it fair or a well chosen policy.

~~~
rowanG077
I'd say it's impossible to administrate such a system in an objective manner.
If you could administer it in an objective manner then you can quantify and
formalize it.

A point system doesn't mean the parameters are well chosen but by it's very
definition it's more fair then an interview without any formal requirements.

------
sqrt
Thanks for sharing this—I'd heard about the points system but I haven't seen
any personal accounts of going through the process before, so it was
illuminating to read one.

Unfortunately, there's no scheme to allow foreigners to stay as a resident if
they work remotely for a company that doesn't have a presence in Japan, as I
do. (I'd even be willing to pay taxes in Japan!)

Of course, such a provision is pretty rare, but it's still a bummer. I wonder
if immigration policy might ever consider such situations—such a worker is
basically injecting money into the Japanese economy for little cost on Japan's
part. But perhaps there are downsides that I haven't considered.

~~~
flocial
You can try for a student visa for Japanese language school for two years. If
you're willing to pay for a plane ticket to a nearby Asian country, you could
probably renew it in perpetuity every three months. There are also other visas
like entertainment or modelling that you could try to obtain for three months.
You can even teach English part time and try to get a visa that way.

As you make friends and build up a network you're certain to find a way to
make it work.

In practice, visas are easier for people from Western developed countries. The
only major risk of overstaying a visa is getting a random stop from police and
at worst you just get deported. It's really not as restrictive as it seems.
I've met plenty of people who visited Japan on a whim and ended up staying for
years.

~~~
dempedempe
No. Japan has cracked down on "visa runs". You can only stay in the country
for a max of 6 months out of the year on a tourist visa.

------
supernova87a
I'm curious to know -- for people who seek residency in Japan, do they
typically do it with the plan to stay forever? Or do they use it for the
employment, etc, and have the longer term desire to go back to their original
home country?

I ask because from all that I've read, foreigners take even generations to
feel comfortable and accepted in Japan. What's the permanent residency a path
towards, for most?

~~~
forgot_account
>>>I'm curious to know -- for people who seek residency in Japan, do they
typically do it with the plan to stay forever?

I do. It's a "sweet spot" place to live. No threat of violence from law
enforcement, significantly reduced threat of violence from the general
population, extremely high standard of living, and the country is well-
positioned as a base of operations for travel or business across most of Asia.
Also, despite some high expenses compared to America, it's a great place to
own a sports car if that is a major hobby (and it is for me). Many of the
happiest people I know are Western expats in Japan who are small-business
owners. It's important to disconnect from the "Japanese corporate wage slave"
or "English teacher" life experiences. I'll never back to the US if I can
avoid it.

~~~
supernova87a
Thanks for the reply! Did you bring family with you -- and if so, how do they
like it?

Do you feel you've gotten to "neighbor acceptance" level of integration? Or do
you seek to achieve that?

~~~
forgot_account
I didn't bring family with me, I'm building one here. Re: neighbor acceptance,
it's hit or miss but mostly hit. In my last apartment, my next-door neighbor
was an older guy who spoke no English but always wanted to shoot the shit
about my project cars. I think he used to be a bosozoku (young Japanese biker
gangs) back in the day. My Japanese is pretty poor but I can express myself on
certain subjects, especially cars. There's a guy at one of my favorite
junkyards who keeps inviting me to go drifting with him and I barely
understand his Japanese; he has a very heavy local accent. There was also a
young guy who worked at my local Family Mart convenience store who was a
metalhead (he was wearing a band T-shirt one day), so we would occasionally
talk about bands. Him: "Do you know....Fleshgod?" "Fleshgod Apocalypse?
mochiron sa (Eng: of course!) I saw them live in Osaka!" "Ahh, sugoii (cool) !
They are....very good! I like." \m/ >_< \m/

You'll always be "the gaijin" but most people are friendly. I had some good
experiences in Thailand as well, having just the right physical features to
kinda blend in as long as I didn't open my mouth. But that's a longer story...

------
apsdsm
Here’s how I got mine: got married to Japanese national. Worked and paid taxes
for 8 years in a job that wasn’t teaching English. Applied for and paid ¥8000.
Waited half a year. Received the OK to pick up my new perm resident card _the
week before_ my family packed up to move back to Australia...

Seriously one of the most simultaneously exciting and annoying pieces of mail
I’ve ever received.

------
franciscop
I am planning to apply in 1.5 years on the 70-point system. I've had 70 points
for the last half year, in January 2020 I will be at 65 points and in February
2021 I will be back at 70 points again.

I don't speak Japanese though, so there are a couple of things I'm curious
about. For instance, it says "Either graduated from a Japanese university or
completed a course of a Japanese graduate school" and I did a semester in a
Japan university as an exchange student. But it was as an undergraduate, so
I'm not sure if it counts. I'll be contacting the linked company in the
article, thanks for the read!

------
franciscop
Note to self: remember to re-download the guidelines every once in a while.
This has been in my mind for ~3 years and they have changed them (for the
better mostly!) a couple of times. A clear example is that now you don't need
to have the high skill visa for the given time, but you just need to have the
points for the given period (and even that is a bit ambiguous, it says you
need to have the points at the time of applying and 3 years before, but it
doesn't say "for the duration of those 3 years")

------
orthoxerox
TIL Brown University has incredibly pretentious degree certificates. Are other
American universities like that too?

~~~
SpicyLemonZest
I don't know of any others that are quite that bad, but most are pretty
flowery. I'm still waiting to get the "rights and privileges" my university
promised come with the degree.

~~~
jkaplowitz
Benefits based on having the degree in immigration point systems is a nice
example of such a privilege. So is having that university's name on your
resume, in cases like Brown where it's a famous name.

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weiming
A good friend actually used June Advisors Group mentioned in the article a
couple of years ago. The firm (really a sole attorney) sounded very helpful
and got his business set up with a residence card pretty easily. IIRC it took
a couple of months end-to-end.

------
wodenokoto
> Graduation from a university separately specified by the Minister of Justice
> in a public notice

Does anyone have a link to this list?

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CapricornNoble
Hmmm, when I investigated the HSFP in 2016, Immigration told me I had to get a
job at a Japanese company, and THEN apply for said visa. You can't apply for
the High Skill Visa, even if you have more than enough points to qualify
(which I did), while you are job-hunting on a tourist visa, for example.

>>>What changed in 2017 was that if you could demonstrate that you had the
points historically you could apply for a PR without ever having the HSFP
visa. That's the process I used.

Yeah that's a big change.

------
cmod
It should be noted that there are some _incredibly_ onerous and far reaching
global tax and inheritance implications of taking on PR in Japan. Anyone doing
so should fully research before making the jump. (I’ve been a Japan PR for 5
years after 15 years of artist and student visas.)

~~~
polm23
I've seen people mention this before but it seems to be based on a
misunderstanding - your tax obligations to Japan are not based on your visa
status, but on the length of your residence. See this official government
page, it doesn't mention visa status anywhere.

[https://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/setting_up/section3/page7....](https://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/setting_up/section3/page7.html)

It looks like in some documents the term "permanent resident" is used to refer
to "residents of more than five years" or similar, but it's not a reference to
visa status.

[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2016/10/30/how-
tos/lo...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2016/10/30/how-tos/long-
term-foreign-japan-residents-must-declare-overseas-assets-taxed/)

Besides the terminology issue, I suspect that part of the confusion may be
that the PR application does require proof you've been paying taxes, and
Immigration can ask for further proof. In my own case my annual tax statements
were enough.

------
flitzekacke
Thanks for the article. With Japanese PR, I know you can leave and reenter on
a special reentry visa. Are reentry visas easy to get? Would repeatedly
getting (by doing a reentry visa-run to japan every 5 years) them while
spending most of your time outside of japan result in losing your PR?

~~~
polm23
You used to have to apply for a re-entry visa. Technically Japan distinguishes
between "entry permission" and "status of residence", which few countries do
and, given it's an island, doesn't really make any sense, but that's the
reason for the policy. With the change to the Residence Card system in 2012
normal travel no longer requires applying for re-entry visas. Here's a notice
from when it changed:

[http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_1/en/point_3-4.html](http://www.immi-
moj.go.jp/newimmiact_1/en/point_3-4.html)

To add to what bojo said, when you apply for it at the airport these days you
basically just fill out a tiny piece of paper and they say "OK, see you when
you get back" if you're going away for less than a year. I don't go overseas
much but if memory serves the process is basically the same for PR and non-PR
visas.

I don't really know much about the implications of only coming back once every
five years or so.

------
mmhsieh
For those interested in foreigners obtaining Japanese citizenship, check out
the story of Debito Arudou. It's a whole higher level of difficulty. At some
point I think only around 16 naturalizations were happening per year, of a
country of 100 million.

~~~
aikinai
There are over 10,000 naturalizations per year with a 99% approval rate.

Your figure sounds like one of those weird Japanese legends. And I haven’t
read Arudou’s naturalization story, but he’s well known for over-dramatizing
everything and has an incredibly biased agenda so it’s probably best not to
take anything he says too seriously.

~~~
mmhsieh
I believe it was in one of Arudou's own writings that I read the 16 per year
figure, circa 2000 or so.

------
laurieg
Good write up with plenty of detail, thanks for sharing.

The gap between highly skilled professional and regular worker seems to be a
huge chasm. You can get PR in 1 year with enough points but you must wait 10
if you are a regular worker.

Also, to apply for PR on a regular work visa you must have a visa length
longer than 1 year. This can effectively be used to block PR applications. I
know someone who had been in Japan for 15 years who cannot apply for PR
because of this rule. As the application is never even allowed to be made,
these people do not show up in statistics about successful Vs rejected PR
applications either

~~~
polm23
If they have been in Japan for 15 years, keep getting 1-year visas, and want
to stay in Japan long-term, they should speak to a lawyer. There are various
criteria that decide how long a visa you get, and while they aren't explicit
there are things you can do to make it much more likely you'll get a long
visa.

At my first job I was a "contract employee", which was a much less stable
position than I realized when I signed up, and I couldn't get more than a one-
year visa either. Later I changed jobs and became a full employee and got a
5-year visa without issue.

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sunsetSamurai
I wish my own country was so strict when granting visas and protecting our
borders. Every week thousands of people cross are border illegally to stay,
making my already poor and indepted country even poorer.

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james_s_tayler
Probably easiest thing to do would just be to coach and olympic team to
victory and get a medal from the emperor.

edit: interestingly I get 70 points, so maybe I don't need a medal from the
emperor.

------
morninglight
Does your Japanese permanent residency allow you to avoid paying American
income tax, or are you still required to pay BOTH Japanese and American income
taxes?

~~~
CapricornNoble
As long as you are a US citizen you are expected to pay Federal income tax, no
matter where you are in the world, and no matter where you earned it. The US
and Eritrea are the only 2 countries on the planet with this policy. I _think_
you can get your tax burden reduced if you can prove you've paid taxes to
another jurisdiction, but don't quote me on that...

~~~
hopia
Actually, I think Japan also technically taxes worldwide income of non-
resident nationals. And even permanent residents, regardless of where they
reside.

Moreover, some countries like Finland require you to pay taxes on worldwide
income for a number of years after you're no longer a resident of the country
and only then granting you tax freedom from income sourced outside of the
country. And there's no amount of income you can exclude like the USA's $108k
or whatever the figure is currently.

------
benguild
Japan is honestly desperate for these types of PR candidates. I almost went
for it but they have a large death and exit tax, if I’m not mistaken.

A friend did it and left afterward for Australia because he realized he didn’t
want to be middle-aged in Japan as a foreigner, and also regretted it in the
end due to the tax liability.

------
raverbashing
> That presented another problem - I had forgotten, but my degree was in
> Latin. All documents submitted as part of an application have to be
> translated into Japanese, and I don't speak Latin.

Wait, what?

I wouldn't expect such quirkiness from an American university, though being
founded in 1764 kinda explains it.

(The translation, while correct, is also extremely literal and a bit outdated)

~~~
bhickey
Here's a picture of the diploma if you're interested:
[https://i.imgur.com/CYHm5sM.png](https://i.imgur.com/CYHm5sM.png)

~~~
raverbashing
Thanks, I had looked it up to check the latin (not that I'm an expert, far
from it) but it certainly looks more "conversational" than the English
translation

~~~
jkaplowitz
The university president at the time the author graduated (and and also at my
own graduation few years earlier) was a classics professor who has good Latin
ability, so she conducted most of the ceremony overall in Latin. Of course
some bits of English were included, such as when honorary degree recipients or
students selected to speak at the ceremony were doing their bits. Yes they
provided translations and I think subtitles too.

The current university president is less proficient in Latin, so she does most
of the ceremony in English, only using Latin for the few bits that the
University rules require to be in Latin (including the moments when the
degrees are formally conferred).

------
ausjke
there is no way you can do point-based immigration reform in USA, because it's
not politically correct, not diversified, unhuman, etc.

Combined with all those looting these days I'm actually very interested in
countries like Japan or Singapore via immigration, enough bullshit here
indeed.

Learning Japanese is the largest challenge, I can do English in Singapore,
maybe Australia.

And no to Europe, both Europe and USA are on their death road to socialism.

~~~
harpratap
Japan is more socialist than US- stricter worker rights, universal healthcare,
lots of government funded programs for young kids and their parents (they
recently made daycare free upto certain age) and ever increasing taxes (the
recent one was 2% hike in October last year).

------
muralimadhu
What have you liked/disliked about working in Japan? Why did you pick Japan?

------
Razengan
Does anyone have experience with an investment-based path to residency there?

------
mohit888
This was an interesting read. Really appreciate the effort!

------
jniedrauer
> In 2011 I graduated with a Master's degree from Brown University and then
> moved to Japan and got a job as a software engineer.

I'm curious why you would do this. In any other occupation, I could understand
it. In many respects, Japan is a more advanced civilization than the United
States. But as a SWE, there is nowhere else in the world that you can make a
higher salary than the United States. Even if your long term ambition was to
move to Japan, wouldn't you be better off becoming financially independent
first and then moving?

~~~
gas9S9zw3P9c
Not everyone is optimizing for making money. I left a Silicon Valley FAANG for
another country more than five years ago, even though I was making ~3x there
compared to what I made in the new place. Even with the higher living costs,
that's still a lot more money.

I regret nothing. I'm so much happier here than I ever was in the Bay Area,
and I doing this early in my life allowed me to have a lot of fun and stories
to tell. Why would I "waste" my precious 20s and early 30s being miserable and
retire at 35? Who even wants to retire? I wouldn't even know what to do with
that money? Buy a house and sit in the garden the whole day? :) Not the life I
wanted.

This whole "make a lot of $$$ and be miserable in your 20s to optimize for the
future" is such a common thing I see in SV and HN as part of the narratives
that these VCs are pushing. I think you have it all backwards. You can make
money any time. You can never back to your 20s and 30s where you don't have
health problems, are full of energy, and have an easy time making friends.

~~~
foepys
> Why would I "waste" my precious 20s and early 30s being miserable and retire
> at 35? Who even wants to retire?

A few months ago I read a comment from somebody on a documentary about people
optimizing for retirement in their 30s and it stuck with me:

"Live like a caveman until you are 35, then retire and live like a caveman
until you die."

~~~
gas9S9zw3P9c
Another illusion is that these are absolute numbers. They're relative. When
you're young, $100k is a lot of money. Enough to be happy and worry-free. Once
you have that, you need $1M in cash to be happy and retire. Once you have $1M
but realize everyone around you is making $1M/year to retire at $10M you
suddenly need $10M. This will repeat itself, and you'll never have enough.
You'll just become more miserable realizing how much more everyone else has.
Yeah, platitudes. We all know this, right? Turns out, this cycle is totally
unconscious and incredibly hard to break once you're in it and surrounded by
such people. Get away while you can.

At least for me, this was one of the reasons why working at FAANG where
everyone is striving for $$$ made me miserable. It gave me such a warped view
of the world.

~~~
nip180
The common term for this is lifestyle inflation. As you make more money your
“needs” keep increasing. It’s incredibly challenging to reserve this trend but
very easy to follow it.

~~~
RandomBacon
I think the best way to prevent this is, whenever you get a raise, open a new
bank account and have the difference direct deposited into it. That way, the
main bank account that you work with regularly, always sees the same amount
deposited.

------
reiichiroh
Don’t forget you’re still a second-class citizen as a foreigner:
[https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/19/national/social...](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/19/national/social-
issues/japan-foreign-residents-stranded-abroad-coronavirus/)

~~~
makx
I can understand that people are personally upset when they are affected by
travel restrictions, but this whole outrage about "foreigners are second class
citizens" (often even: "this shows Japans racism") is just just silly.

1- The restrictions are not about race, but about which countries have
mismanaged the pandemic. People from Taiwan and some other south east asian
countries are allowed to enter. (Ironically, exactly those people are / have
been much more commonly the target of Japanese racism).

2- They most likely would prefer to also ban Japanese citizens (whatever race)
from returning from hot-spots like Florida or Brazil. They just can't because
of legal reasons. Citizenship gives you certain rights.

3- You can call PR and other visas "second class citizenship" if you want, but
the fact is: you're just not a citizen. You also can't vote. You also can't
become prime minister. You're not a citizen and don't have the rights of a
citizen. That's the same in every country, including yours. Why didn't people
with PR complain about being "second class citizens" for years about those
other rights?

~~~
wonderlg
I think that many of those with PR would rather be (first-class) citizens;
it’s not always just a personal choice to not be one.

I think it’s pretty clear that if you plan your life in a secondary country,
and they allow you to via permanent residency, you would not want them to lock
you out at a whim.

