
Amazon to Build Second HQ in North America - martymatheny
https://www.amazon.com/amazonhq2
======
jpatokal
The RFP is rather more interesting than the marketing page:

[https://images-na.ssl-images-
amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything...](https://images-na.ssl-images-
amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf)

The 2nd criterion is basically the total amount of sweet, sweet taxpayer
dollars available to subsidize them:

 _Please provide a summary of total incentives offered for the Project by the
state /province and local community. In this summary, please provide a brief
description of the incentive item, the timing of incentive
payment/realization, and a calculation of the incentive amount._

~~~
grecy
And anyone wonders why the USA does not have money for healthcare, higher
education, high speed rail, etc. etc.

I am in West Africa and everyone continually asks about the corruption.

At least here it's up front and honest. The guy with the AK-47 just wants $5.

In the USA, it's the guys in suits getting billions.

~~~
chrishacken
The thing is, those tax cuts are largely offset by income taxes that those
employees bring in, along with all of the $ that having a huge corporation
like Amazon would bring into the area. It's not corruption, it's business.

~~~
grecy
No.

Those tax cuts should be added ON TOP of the income taxes those employees
bring in.

More business should be more tax revenue = better services for the citizens.

> _It 's not corruption, it's business._

When a business is able to make a deal that gets them out of paying taxes they
otherwise would legally be required to pay, that's corruption. Sugar coat it
all you want, it's regular citizens they are stealing from.

~~~
kemiller
Unless money is being funneled into private politicians’ hands, it’s not
corruption. The choice is between amazon + tax breaks and nothing. These
cities clearly believe that they’re better off, net net, with Amazon and
they’re probably right. This is not at all the same as accepting bribes. There
are certainly bad deals out there, but mismanagement is not the same as
corruption. Now if you can show that the politicians in question are getting
kickbacks, that’s another matter.

~~~
3pt14159
It's a race to the bottom. It results in one state or city that pollutes for
the whole country. Governments should set things up so the whole economy
benefits, sometimes that means banning defections so that game theory doesn't
fuck things up for everyone.

~~~
kemiller
I'm sure that the tax benefits are not the only criterion here. There are
plenty of things cities can do to attract companies that aren't tax breaks —
SF and NY and others are already there. Amazon wants a place that its
employees would actually want to live, too. But that doesn't mean tax breaks
and other incentives shouldn't be on the table. But my point isn't even
whether they're good or bad, it's that they're not prima facie evidence of
corruption.

~~~
rdslw
It's good not to forget the toplevel posts, which quotes that Amazon ASKS
specifically for money amount.

"Please provide a summary of total incentives offered for the Project by the
state/province and local community. In this summary, please provide a brief
description of the incentive item, the timing of incentive
payment/realization, and a calculation of the incentive amount"

Read their RFP for more.

------
Animats
OK, what are the options? Here's the list of the top 50 North American metro
areas over the desired 1,000,000 population.[1] This gets down to the
Nashville, TN area, at 1.8 million, so it's not the full list. Haiti, the
Dominican Republic, and Cuba are probably out, both for political reasons and
being islands. Mexico is probably out given the current administration's
positions. San Juan is on an island and too remote, although the tax deal in
Puerto Rico might keep it in consideration.

Amazon seems to want a city where they would be a Big Deal, maybe the dominant
employer. In New York or LA, they'd just be another big business.

Weather is an issue. They'll want some place that doesn't flood or get
snowbound, since their HQ city will include some distribution centers. That
knocks out Minneapolis - St. Paul, Houston, Miami, and Tampa.

They probably don't want a super high cost area, which knocks out SF-Oakland-
San Jose. Maybe Washington, DC, too.

Extreme high crime areas are out - that takes out Tijuana and Detroit.

Mass transit is a specified requirement. This takes out cities with weak
transit systems.

Not too close to Seattle, since they want to be more geographically
distributed. That probably takes out the West Coast cities.

So what's left?

    
    
        Chicago 
        Dallas–Fort Worth 	
        Toronto 	
        Philadelphia 	
        Atlanta 	
        Boston 	
        Phoenix 	
        Montreal 	
        Denver 	
        St. Louis 	
        Baltimore 	
        Charlotte 	
        Orlando 	
        San Antonio 	
        Pittsburgh 	
        Cincinnati 	
        Las Vegas 	
        Kansas City 	
        Cleveland 	
        Columbus 	
        Austin 	
        Indianapolis 	
        Nashville
    

I'm going to guess Austin or Nashville. Small enough that Amazon can be a big
fish in a small pond, big enough to support the work force, liveable enough
that people will come, good land availability.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_American_metropolitan_areas_by_population)

~~~
jkimmel
As a former Orlandoan, I would pull Orlando from that list based on public
transit.

Transit in Central Florida is basically non-functional, and not likely to
change anytime soon. The region is entirely car-centric, and there is a strong
cultural bias against public infrastructure of any kind.

You can surely look up a map with lots of bus lines drawn across the Orlando
core (Lynx), but the service is so remarkably horrific, I never met anyone who
used Lynx in the 21 years I lived in the region.

~~~
mleonhard
Roads are public infrastructure.

------
jasode
I think we can assume that Jeff Bezos saw how Elon Musk played the game in
2014 to find a location for Tesla's GigaFactory.[1][2][3]

The upcoming stories for Amazon's high-profile decision will probably play out
in a similar way. However, the particular candidate cities probably won't be
the same since Elon was building a site for factory workers whereas Jeff is
building a campus for more software developers. Therefore, a location like
Austin with U.Texas compsci students to recruit is more important for Amazon
HQ2 than a Gigafactory.

The desire to attract tech employers like Amazon appears to be more
competitive than winning the bid to host the Olympic Games.

[1] [http://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-ingeniously-
man...](http://www.businessinsider.com/how-elon-musk-ingeniously-
manipulated-7-states-into-competing-for-teslas-gigafactory-2014-11)

[2]
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2014/02/27/the...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2014/02/27/the-
high-stakes-race-by-southwest-states-for-teslas-5-billion-
gigafactory/#1adf2ed44eeb)

[3] google results of similar stories:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+bidding+nevada+texas](https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+bidding+nevada+texas)

~~~
rtpg
>The desire to attract tech employers like Amazon appears to be more
competitive than winning the bid to host the Olympic Games.

And for good reason! There aren't many companies that people would be willing
to move across the US to join.

People tend not to move around too much after University of their first job.
Having another magnet to bring in people for relatively little (compared to a
university's for example) is a great deal for a city.

~~~
notyourwork
Based on how many have moved to Seattle Amazon is one of them though.

~~~
uiri
How much of that is hiring straight out of University? I would wager that
Amazon has the largest tech internship program in North America.

~~~
notyourwork
How much of it is senior engineers? The point is they have filled roles of all
levels of experience. What is your point?

------
baron816
You have to consider that this may be a political move by Bezos. The term
"anti-trust" has been brought up a lot lately in regards to 'Big Tech.' If
Amazon becomes a big employer in a lot of low population states, it would
effectively be buying itself those states's Senators and creating an 'Amazon
Industrial Complex.'

On the other hand, Bezos might want to just move the margins and try to make a
purple state blue. For a big state, that might make have a bigger impact and
make more sense, especially since you're not going to find 50,000 software
engineers in Montana.

I think Cincinnati could be a good choice. I don't know much about Cincinnati,
except that it's in Ohio and borders Indiana and Kentucky, and that it's not a
tech hub. But, I don't think it would be that hard to convince a lot of people
to move there. If the move is really successful, it could create somewhat of a
tech hub there, which would have spillover effects in those other states
(giving them 3 for the price of 1?).

~~~
fooey
As a generalization, the people who want to work for Amazon tend to be more on
the progressive wing, and an HQ in a heavily conservative region would make it
harder to hire talent.

I would guess places like Denver/Boulder (where Google has a site coming),
Boston, Portland, or Las Vegas are much more likely than Austin, Charlotte, or
Salt Lake City

~~~
sremani
Anybody who says People's Republic of Austin (ref: Bernie movie:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JREkqCvLzSo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JREkqCvLzSo))
is not on progressive wing is kidding.

Also, Whole Foods is head-quartered in Austin, so there could be "synergy"
there.

~~~
fooey
Progressive islands in conservative states are almost worse

They just get diced up and have no voice in state or federal government, and
you end up with things like the NC and Texas bathroom bills.

Why would a company like Amazon move to a state who's already so wrong on
human rights issues? That's just asking for boycotts and mass resignations.

I'd wager it's vastly more likely Whole Foods will move away than Amazon moves
in. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the main motivations for HQ2 was to move
Whole Foods, and anyone else they acquire, into Amazon proper.

~~~
reaperducer
> Progressive islands in conservative states are almost worse

Progressive islands in conservative states is pretty much all there is, with
the exception of California and New England.

Chicago is the progressive island that turns conservative Illinois blue on the
map. Seattle is the progressive island that turns conservative Washington blue
on the map. New York, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, and a few others are the
progressive islands that turn conservative upstate New York blue on the map.
Houston, Austin, Dallas as the progressive islands that have not yet turned
Texas blue on the map. etc... etc...

~~~
santaclaus
> Progressive islands in conservative states is pretty much all there is, with
> the exception of California and New England.

California is hella conservative the second you get out of the major cities...

------
BatFastard
Come to Atlanta! Great schools, great weather, downtown is under utilized,
decent mass transit. One of the fastest grow tech locations in the country.

We offer, no hurricanes, no earthquakes, no tidal waves, no forest fires, no
flooding, and once every 10 year snow storms. We are on the opposite coast
which protects you from N Korean actions. Plus you can fly anywhere from our
airport!

~~~
leggomylibro
What about Chattanooga? It's in the same area with a rapidly-growing
startup/tech scene, but it has gigabit municipal internet and a slightly
cooler climate.

~~~
BatFastard
Chattanooga is great! Just not sure if they have the infrastructure to handle
that big of a corp. And Gigbit is kinda passe by now.

~~~
leggomylibro
Oh, I doubt they'll be worried about that. Seattle sure doesn't have the
infrastructure necessary to support them!

------
alexval
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Pittsburgh yet. uber did some early
self driving pilots there. CMU is there. Google has a large office there.
Amazon has also started hiring software engineers for an office in Pittsburgh
too. Cost of living is very cheap. Many upsides to Pittsburgh. I don't know
what the city could afford in terms of subsidies though.

~~~
DanCarvajal
PA Corporate tax is one of the highest in the country. Though it's not a
terrible option.

~~~
thinkling
How does that affect a company like Amazon that cam claim its primary HQ in
another state, and its actual realized revenue as mostly in other states? What
part of Amazon's profits would get taxed in PA?

~~~
DanCarvajal
Most states have tax nexus rules where that doesn't matter as much anymore.
They'd certainly pay PA corporate tax on PA income, then PA payroll on every
employee.

------
kogepathic
Why not put HQ2 in Vancouver?

Okay, yes, house prices are unrealistic, but hear me out:

1\. Not in the US (helpful for any non-American employees who can't get a visa
or don't want to live in the current political climate in the US)

2\. Relatively easy for Americans to work in Canada

3\. Close proximity to Seattle

4\. Canadian salaries are typically lower than America, so this could be a
huge boon to Canadians working in tech that they're finally paid similar to US
counterparts and/or Amazon can save a bundle on salary costs by paying the
Canadian market rate...

~~~
martin_drapeau
Salaries are lower in Canada indeed. Plus, their are substantial credits both
at the federal and provincial levels to recuperate developer salary costs
(30%+). Ubisoft and other studios have their R&D in Montreal just for this
reason. There is a big talent pool in and around Montreal. Would be an ideal
location.

~~~
JustAnotherPat
Taxes are too high in Quebec. Also, not sure people in Montreal want to be
dominated by Amazon and have it turn into some new Amazon-centric tech hub. It
is doing relatively well without a megacorp there.

~~~
eniotna
I believe it's the opposite, taxes for companies are lower in Quebec than in
the US (did not factor in R&D credit, etc). Individual taxes are higher in
Quebec.

------
libria
Why I wonder? While they're gobbling up DT Sea, they only have 1 building in
Bellevue. Isn't there room to set up shop in Fremont or Kirkland and poach
more engineers from Microsoft/Tableau/Expedia etc and reducing commute times?
Not seeing the upside. This is a major management overhead, managing culture
between both, all hands, IT infrastructure.

Austin, TX is a good candidate. Very strong engineering university attracting
nationwide talent, better cost of living, they already have an office there so
they must have some relationship w/ local govt, a good climate contrast to
Seattle being much drier (barring the occasional hurricane), a Google Fiber
city. $5B buys a lot more there than most places in the US.

~~~
mratzloff
I think many Seattlites would be OK with Amazon not gobbling up even more of
the local economy.

As far as some of the outlying areas, I think it comes down to signaling
around tax breaks from the governor[1] and available office space inventory.

[1]
[https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2017/07/07/inslee-v...](https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2017/07/07/inslee-
vetoes-manufacturer-tax-break-washington.html)

------
quirkot
> Why is Amazon choosing its second headquarters location via a public
> process?

Because Foxconn got such an amazing deal and we want to get some of those
sweet, sweet tax credits, too

~~~
ceejayoz
Yup. "Amazon seeks a city to provide cushy tax credits in exchange for vague,
unenforceable promises of job creation" would've been a more accurate
headline.

~~~
sanderjd
I understand (and largely share) the annoyance about these sorts of tax
breaks, but as a software developer, it seems obvious that having an Amazon
headquarters in my city would result in lots of job opportunities for me - not
just at Amazon, but at other software companies that locate nearby over time
due to the increased concentration of workers. So I don't understand your
skepticism at the "job creation" part.

~~~
blackguardx
The skepticism is that the US is a place where the government isn't supposed
to pick the winners and losers. If we want to go down this road, we should do
what what many Asian countries do and offer incentives for anyone to open a
facility in a given geographic region.

Skepticism over the job creation part is because there are usually no
guarantees with how many jobs the company ends up creating. In the Foxconn
case, they could make the factory fully robotic and end up employing very few
people. There will still be increased economic activity, but there seems to be
better ways to generate it than singling out one company.

~~~
nambit
If there are better ways to generate it, then I'm sure they'll come to the
fore. I agree that the practice is unfair and the government should pass some
laws preventing it, but for the cities themselves, there's no better way to
generate such job/tax growth.

If you've seen Amazon's crazy hiring for the past few years, you wouldn't
doubt that they'll create a lot of jobs.

~~~
ceejayoz
Most of those jobs would've still been created _without_ tax breaks, though.
These incentive packages are a race to the bottom, transferring taxpayer money
into major corporations with dubious returns.

~~~
sanderjd
This is true in absolute terms, but not true at the level of each locality.
Those jobs will still be created without tax breaks, they just likely won't be
created _here_ (for nearly everyone's definition of "here"). I totally agree
that these incentives are yucky, but I don't think down-playing the benefits
to the "winning" locality is the right way to argue against it.

------
nathanmuller
I'd argue Research Triangle Park (RTP) is better choice than Austin. Instead
of using one feeder school Amazon could pull from three excellent schools:
Duke University, North Carolina State University, and University of North
Carolina at Chapel Hill. For those that are unfamiliar RTP is a major tech
center.

Edit: Changed "RTP" to "Research Triangle Park" in initial comment.

~~~
hydrogen18
Forgive my ignorance, what is RTP?

~~~
rco8786
Trying to figure that out too. I assume they're talking about the "Research
Triangle" area, but I can't figure out what the P is.

~~~
not_a_terrorist
P = Park

------
ynniv
If you take their transit and airport requirements seriously, Atlanta and
perhaps Miami are top contenders. I'm biased, but the list of requirements
looks like a description of a currently undeveloped area of downtown Atlanta
that has been targeted for redevelopment:

[https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/6/30/15900526/downtown-
atlan...](https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/6/30/15900526/downtown-atlanta-
gulch-hawks-falcons-photos)

[http://atlantaintownpaper.com/2017/08/lawmakers-want-
revive-...](http://atlantaintownpaper.com/2017/08/lawmakers-want-revive-plan-
downtown-multimodal-terminal/)

~~~
sswezey
Looking at the RFP, minus the mass transit, it seems like it was written for
Atlanta. And Atlanta has so many urban infill areas available for development.

------
devmunchies
Silicon Slopes?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Slopes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Slopes)

\- Population > 1,000,000

\- Serviced by 2 great universities (UoU, BYU)

\- Utah is a top 5 state for # of Unicorn Companies

From the wiki I shared: "The Utah Governor's Office of Economic Development
allows a variety of grants and tax incentives to companies willing to either
relocate or expand their enterprise"

Note: I live in Seattle, not Utah.

~~~
xxpor
Socially, Utah could not be more different than Seattle. SLC is one thing, but
that's one small slice of a much bigger state.

You'd be able to attract people who live there already, but there's 0 chance
someone like me would be interested in living there.

Note: I work for Amazon, but have no input at all in this process. This is the
first I'm hearing about it.

~~~
fooey
I completely agree with that generalization

The people who want to work for Amazon wouldn't like living in Utah, and the
people living in Utah wouldn't like the people who work for Amazon

I've been in tech in Southern Utah for almost 20 years, and it's _extremely_
difficult to find qualified people.

If I didn't have a house I love, and family around, I would have left a long
time ago.

~~~
devmunchies
Southern Utah is way different/smaller than northern. Is there even a
$1billion company HQ'd in southern Utah? I'm in Seattle but my company is HQ'd
in Utah Valley. There is lots of tech talent in Northern Utah. Heck, Angular
Conf and React Rally are in SLC every year for a reason.

~~~
vyrotek
Qualtrics, Domo, and InsideSales are in Utah Valley. Vivnt and Workfront are
down there but aren't quite a billion yet.

~~~
devmunchies
None of those are in southern Utah. Utah Valley and SL Valley are Northern.
Something like St. George would be southern.

~~~
vyrotek
Gotcha. I saw you mention Nothern talent and SLC and assumed you meant
relatively close to that area. I guess my mind was stuck on rational options.
I drive to/from SLC and PHX a lot and there's a whole lot of nothing in
between. :)

------
013a
I'll suggest a dark horse candidate: Indianapolis. Indy is close to two top 5
engineering colleges (UIUC and Purdue) and one top 10 business school (IU).
Purdue has a unique product history with Amazon [1] and Amazon has four
warehouses within an hour drive (though to be fair, that's true of a lot of
cities). The city has seen major investment from outside tech companies like
Salesforce [2], IAC [3], and others in recent years. Real estate and cost of
living inside the city is ridiculously cheap, and there are hundreds of
undeveloped acres [4] startlingly close to city center. The city has proven
itself capable of hosting 400,000 people in a single day at the Indy500 every
year. The state and city has a history of giving large tax incentives to
outside tech companies [5].

[1]
[https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2014/Q3/purdue,-ama...](https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2014/Q3/purdue,-amazon-
to-offer-students-savings-on-textbooks,-provide-first-ever-on-campus-pickup-
services.html)

[2] [http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2017/05/20/why-
salesfo...](http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2017/05/20/why-salesforce-
investing-indy/332181001/)

[3] [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-01/iac-to-
ac...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-01/iac-to-acquire-
angie-s-list-in-deal-valued-at-about-500-million)

[4] [http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2017/05/02/550m-gm-
stamp...](http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2017/05/02/550m-gm-stamping-
plant-site-project-create-new-district-indianapolis/101193674/)

[5] [https://www.ibj.com/articles/58486-salesforce-to-
invest-40m-...](https://www.ibj.com/articles/58486-salesforce-to-
invest-40m-in-indy-expansion-reap-172m-in-incentives?v=preview)

~~~
Slippery_John
Unlikely. One of the requirements is daily direct flights to/from Seattle.
Indy does technically have that but it's exactly 1 flight with poor timing for
business considerations. They list a few other destinations as must-have
nonstop flights, but I'm not sure how good those are. They're also putting a
lot of stress on public transit, which is pretty abysmal in Indiana. They also
don't want to sacrifice on some of their values surrounding renewable energy,
recycling, composting, etc. I lived in Indiana for over 10 years and can't say
I've ever seen a compost bin at a restaurant, and can count on one hand the
number of places with recycling bins (for public use anyway, most places would
recycle their boxes at least).

That said, moving some place in the midwest would be very interesting. Amazon
has a lot of employees that are from those areas, so if they want to start
moving teams it would probably not be too hard.

~~~
logfromblammo
Having lived in Indianapolis for about 15 years, I also say it is unlikely.
The talent pool is too shallow, because tech employers just haven't _been
there_. I had to move to Chicago after graduating in order to get a [decent,
career-advancing] job as a software professional. The majority of my high
school friends also moved out to find jobs after college.

And parent confirms some of the other problems I have with Indy. Unigov
overwhelmed the urban core with township voters, so city-county government is
atypically conservative for a Midwestern city, which has a major impact on
statewide politics. (Still less conservative than where I am now, though, and
trust me when I say that being liberal or libertarian in a conservative state
is like rubbing a cheese grater on your soul every time you visit the polls--
no good options, and sometimes you don't even get two whole evils from which
to choose the lesser.)

If you want to fly anywhere, you have to connect through ORD (American,
United), MDW (Southwest), or ATL (Delta, Southwest). The direct flight to
anywhere probably only runs once a day or less.

Also, all the tech people with kids will undoubtedly cluster in southern
Hamilton county, and Washington or Lawrence townships, which won't be great
for traffic, because there's no limited-access highway to downtown from
anywhere on the north side. And what public transit? I might have seen a bus
once or twice, while visiting downtown, within a 5-block radius of the circle.
And the hospitals have a monorail since the merger, I guess. Beyond that,
you're driving or walking.

------
bshimmin
It always amuses me how stunningly bad Amazon really is at making standalone
pages on their web site. This one is totally unresponsive, has images for
headings, and a slightly blurry image for the table. Here's Amazon Locker,
which is even more dismal: [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Click-and-Collect-with-
Amazon-Locke...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Click-and-Collect-with-Amazon-
Lockers/b?ie=UTF8&node=2594544031)

I guess they must have to produce all this stuff within the constraints of
their CMS, but it really does make me wonder why they can't build better
standalone pages outside of it if the occasion arises.

~~~
cabalamat
> totally unresponsive

You mean it's not weighed down with tons of JavaShit and annoying transition
effects?

~~~
samsolomon
Most responsive sites use media queries which involve CSS, not JavaScript.

------
relaunched
Minnesota. Budget surplus, tons of F500 companies / large companies to recruit
from and a strong university system, with lots of other states to draw from,
being the largest city in the area, save Chicago.

~~~
ryanmarsh
This is one of the most likely locations I've read of so far. Minneapolis,
Austin, Boulder in that order.

~~~
mkempe
Denver possibly, but absolutely not Boulder. Boulder is a complete failure
when it comes to transportation -- no light rail connection to Denver's
system, although they collected sales tax for years claiming that was going to
finance it; also, adding 50,000 new workers in a city of 100,000 would simply
crush the existing infrastructure. Plus the local city council has been on a
quixotic quest to confiscate electric utilities (distribution without
production). The local developers have been giddy for the last few years that
Google is bringing one thousand workers there, that's how strained housing
already is.

------
dcole2929
I think an East Coast city definitely makes the most sense. Realistically
though, they probably can't get enough land in the ideal spot of NYC/Jersey
meaning the next best options are DC, Philly and Atlanta. Baltimore could be a
dark horse candidate. There's already a lot of construction going on there
courtesy of Under Armour building out a new HQ. Charlotte could be an option
as well.

~~~
dkrich
My money would be on D.C. Lots of access to government agencies that could add
a lot of AWS business, a major concentration of highly-skilled tech workers
and colleges, close to the Washington Post, and a lot of up and coming
neighborhoods in the southwest/southeast quadrants of the city. Also wouldn't
hurt that it's on the opposite side of the country to add some geographic
diversity.

~~~
apendleton
As someone who lives in DC: I'm with you on the DC metro making some sense,
but DC itself is probably out. There's not enough green space to build a
campus the size of their Seattle HQ anywhere in the city, given how the severe
building height limits here would balloon the total required acreage. They
might have some options someplace in the suburbs (maybe Arlington, or out
along the Silver Line), or they could look at Baltimore: still pretty close to
DC, but much cheaper, and with a lot more industrial land ripe for
repurposing.

~~~
dkrich
The height limitations are a good point and also they probably wouldn't get
the tax incentives they're looking for in DC, but Nova a possibility.

I'd be surprised by Baltimore because it would probably be difficult to
attract top talent there in large numbers.

------
clavalle
Thinking about what cities should lay out the red carpet, if I were a city
official in, say, St. Louis or Detroit, I'd be putting together an incentive
plan worth billions. Amazon could turn around an entire mid-size city.

~~~
peterkshultz
Amazon announced plans to open up a Detroit tech office a few years ago [1].

[1]:
[http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/09/2...](http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/09/28/amazon-
detroit-duggan-snyder-technology-retail-tech/72797396/)

------
wpietri
Excellent. I think we've gone too far in trying to put all the tech work in
the spots where early tech companies happened to spring up.

In the long term, I'd like to see VCs not be so provincial in their
investments, so that people can start companies where they are. But in the
short term, having established companies put offices elsewhere is a great next
step.

------
wyldfire
> A stable and business-friendly environment and tax structure will be high-
> priority considerations for the Project. Incentives offered ... will be
> significant factors in the decision-making process.

It's a race to the bottom. Don't fall for it. Pro sports teams, recently
Foxconn, they're all running the same game. You will all end up overbidding in
order to win the deal and your constituents will foot the bill.

~~~
wiredone
This is far from true. Jobs bring sales taxes, property taxes etc etc.
Football stadiums pale in comparison. People in Seattle complain that there
are "too many high income people around spending too much on stuff, raising
the prices". If youre a city wanting growth, adding one of the largest
national employers seems like a good bet.

------
dpeterson
I think it's possible Amazon is not so much shopping for a second HQ as it is
looking to move work from the high rent, pro union Seattle area. Only, they
saw how much negative press Boeing received after making their true intentions
known for moving work to southern states. Amazon is being sneakier. If all
works out, long term I imagine much of their high end development work may
move from Seattle.

~~~
rb808
From memory the reason Amazon was based in Seattle was that it was close to
book publisher warehouses, that is no longer a good reason to remain there.

~~~
fpo
Also the initial business plan of Amazon was in large part trying to benefit
from not having to pay sales tax on out of state shipments.

------
devmpk
To me, this screams Philadelphia.

45 minutes to NYC, 2 hours to DC, two of the biggest talent pools in the
country, in a city of 2 million that has been making significant steps forward
in the last 10 years.

It is cheap, offers all the urban amenities one could desire, it's close to
the beach, I would absolutely move back if I got a good job offer.

If Bezos is into politics, Philadelphia is in a purple state. He will have a
massive influence there.

I used to live in Philadelphia, I really loved my time there. It is a hugely
underrated city IMO, and probably the most urban feeling in the country behind
NYC and Chicago.

Philly is as multicultural as you can get, try taking a walk in Center City
and you'll see what I mean.

Comcast has made a home in the city, and I know that they have made an
excellent deal with the city government considering the massive investments
they are making in Center City.

I know there are other options, I really don't see anything more fitting that
Philadelphia though besides maybe Denver or Twin Cities.

-Current DC resident dreaming of moving back to Philadelphia

------
thinkling
RFPs are due by Oct 19. My first reaction was "there's no way city and state
governments can work together to produce incentive packages that quickly".

On second thought, it makes me wonder if they're shopping for local
governments which can be that responsive with an eye on getting stuff done
efficiently in the future (permitting, zoning).

------
amleszk
I actually hope this is a city where housing affordability is made more
sustainable up front. Something to avoid the way New York and San Francisco
have evolved into landlords and rent seekers drowning the wealth generation of
incumbents

~~~
dopamean
Something tells me housing will suddenly become a little less affordable after
Amazon comes to town.

------
vasilipupkin
Chicago: Plenty of tech talent, cheap, nice city, convenient transportation,
easy to fly all over. For employees with kids, top notch schools in the area,
both private and public.

------
oblio
I'm not from the US, but as an outsider it would probably be a good idea for
this second headquarter to not be on the West Coast. A little diversity
wouldn't hurt :)

~~~
chiph
That, and somewhere that doesn't have volcanoes and earthquakes.

------
lallysingh
Seriously, they should look in New Jersey. Lots of tech talent from NYC that
doesn't want the commute or insane prices of the city.

~~~
wusher
They probably won't. NJ's corperate tax rate is higher than california's.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_St...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States#State_and_local_income_taxes)

------
thinkling
Amazon is planning to hire another 20,000 people in Seattle within 3 years, on
top of the 40,000 they currently have there. Then another 50,000 HQ office
workers at HQ2, so overall HQ staff is expected double within 5-10 years.
(Even if some of the Seattle headcount shifts to HQ2, it'll still be close to
a doubling.)

It's mind boggling to me that they foresee their HQ staff doubling; I lack the
imagination to guess what all those people are going to be doing. Aside from
physical retail, what markets might they be eyeing?

~~~
mkempe
Transportation, including logistics and deliveries of course, but also
innovative infrastructure to move people.

Also, vertical farming.

------
iagooar
Bezos: Alexa, buy me a city, we need new headquarters. Alexa: City acquired.

It's so crazy to see a company make cities apply for hosting them, instead of
them applying for space in a city. But I guess that given the size of Amazon,
it's actually worth more than most cities in the world anyway...

~~~
amb23
It's all about tax breaks. This is a blatant attempt by Amazon to get years of
taxes abated in order to provide the increased regional economic benefit of...
doing exactly what they'd do anyways if they didn't get the break. US city and
state then competes against other US cities and states in a battle to provide
the larger tax break.

It's an odious practice in my opinion, and I wish lawmakers would do something
to curb it. But being able to tell your constituents "Hey, look at me, I got
Amazon to come here!" makes for great campaigning.

~~~
mathgeek
It's only exactly what they'd do anyway if the chosen location was getting
their new HQ anyway. While I don't necessarily agree with it on a personal
level, this is a pretty basic "supply vs demand" situation.

~~~
ghaff
Companies do sometimes indulge in incentives brinkmanship by threatening to
move if they don't get the right offer. But, assuming this isn't Amazon just
playing that game with Seattle, they do have pretty open options. Like it or
not, companies do go after tax incentives and local job creation is pretty
important to politicians. And it's not clear it shouldn't be given that's
pretty central to the economic health of a city or area.

It's also worth noting that Amazon isn't just a tech company; they're a huge
retailer. Walmart has no particular problem having their headquarters in
Bentonville Arkansas.

~~~
madcaptenor
NW Arkansas airport also has a surprising amount of service for an airport in
that location - American, Delta, and United regional affiliates. serve most of
their hubs from there. Presumably a lot of this traffic is either Walmart
corporate or suppliers that have located an office in Northwest Arkansas to be
close to Walmart. I'm not saying that Amazon would pick a place like that -
Walmart has always been in Arkansas. But air service will come if necessary.

That makes me wonder about Pittsburgh and Raleigh-Durham, which both have
_underused_ airports (PIT as a former US Airways hub, RDU a former American
hub).

------
peteretep
Let's say I'm the mayor of Detroit, and I want this. What incentives are in my
power to offer, if I team up with the Guv'nor? Can I just gift them the land?

~~~
jtmarmon
cost of land is probably the least of amazon's considerations in building a
second HQ

edit: to elaborate, what they care much more about, i'm sure, is ability to
attract and retain talent in the area. which I'm not sure detroit could do
much about. even if you could make it more desirable to live there there's so
little talent in the area you'd have to spend a crazy amount of time and money
relocating people

~~~
wpietri
> there's so little talent

Citation needed. For example, the University of Michigan's engineering school
is well ranked in many areas, grants 3,000 degrees a year, and is an hour
away:

[https://www.engin.umich.edu/about/facts/](https://www.engin.umich.edu/about/facts/)

~~~
barry-cotter
I'd be quite surprised if Amazon hires less than 3,000 software engineers a
quarter. U Michigan may be a good or great engineering school but if it's an
hour away it rounds to part of the national market.

~~~
wcunning
I went there, along with several of my friends. Most of them now work for
Amazon, several in the extant Detroit office and commute there from just
outside Ann Arbor. You'd be surprised at how easy an hour commute is in South-
east Michigan, esp. compared to Cali or Jersey traffic.

------
jamesie
What city would you move to so you can work at HQ2?

~~~
dopamean
I'm already in Austin. I'd stay here. Though realistically they'd open an
office way north and I wouldn't want to commute up there.

------
seizethecheese
While I think it's true that this is at least partially motivated by potential
tax-incentives, it's also a smart diversification move by Amazon. Right now
they're at the mercy of the Seattle voter, which is a dangerous place to be
for a large corporation. Diversifying headquarters creates competition and
gives them leverage.

------
ceedan
Amazon making corporate welfare so sexy. Make those cities beg for it Jeff.
Make 'em fight each other for it Jeff. Jeff, they want you and that hot HQ2 so
bad.

sigh

~~~
conanbatt
You are not the city you live in.

~~~
ceedan
Some of my tax dollars go to the city I live in.

------
pk2200
Austin seems like a strong candidate, since it's a major high tech hub and
Whole Foods is already headquartered there.

------
robterrin
Everybody (except Amazon) will probably end up worse off. See Thaler's famous
paper on the "Winner's Curse."
[http://econweb.ucsd.edu/~jandreon/Econ264/papers/Thaler%20JE...](http://econweb.ucsd.edu/~jandreon/Econ264/papers/Thaler%20JEP%201988.pdf)

I'm not sure what to make of this overall. The Federal Government should
probably regulate this kind of behavior or at least sweeten the payoff of
state cooperation. Our anti-trust regulators are really asleep at the wheel.

------
clarke78
Canada... 'nough said. If we don't do what we can to bring Amazon North then I
have absolutely zero faith in our ability to ever take tech seriously beyond
the wall. I don't care where the HQ ends up so long as it's on this side of
the boarder. #YYZ (Toronto) #YVR (Vancouver) or, the most likely spot, #YGK
(Kingston/Waterloo) are all great options. Talent could once again stay here
instead of the decade(plus)-long brain-drain to the South.

~~~
ihsw2
#YOW (Ottawa) should be considered a strong contender.

~~~
clarke78
Totally! Space & cost might be the biggest issues or reasons against putting
the HQ in #YYZ or #YVR; #YOW might be a great location.

------
brightball
Should be interesting to see if they decide to go with an east coast presence.
Something like Atlanta would make a lot of sense with Georgia Tech there.

------
VeronicaJJ123
Make it in Canada please.

~~~
kohanz
Kitchener-Waterloo?

edit: just thought it would be a suitable talent hub. Not sure why I'm getting
downvoted. Maybe Toronto would be more suitable?

~~~
obstacle1
Wouldn't really make sense, an HQ would need to be in an actual city, not a
sprawling suburban bedroom community. Toronto, Vancouver, Ottawa, Montreal.

~~~
trevyn
The RFP explicitly states that they prefer "Metropolitan areas with more than
one million people", but that the site does not have to be "An urban or
downtown campus".

~~~
obstacle1
Great. The population of Kitchener, Waterloo, and Cambridge combined is just
over 500k [1]. Disqualified, then.

[1] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-
Cities_(Ontario)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-Cities_\(Ontario\))

------
wdr1
> In choosing the location for HQ2, Amazon has a preference for:

> * Metropolitan areas with more than one million people

There are 10 cities in America with one million people:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population)

~~~
dragonwriter
> > * Metropolitan areas with more than one million people

> There are 10 cities in America with one million people:

Metropolitan areas are not the same as cities. By one definition (MSAs), there
are 53 such areas with a population over 1 million.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statist...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas#United_States)

------
ktorvald
Portland, Philadelphia, Atlanta based on what Amazon wants / needs.

~~~
omosubi
I'd also say the research triangle, Salt lake city, Austin, Chicago, the twin
cities, Pittsburgh, and Cincinnati

~~~
mywittyname
Cincinnati isn't a good choice. It has a modest tech scene and no great CS/CE
universities. Columbus is a far better choice.

~~~
ceejayoz
> modest tech scene

 _Anywhere_ Amazon puts a HQ is going to have a pretty decent tech scene
pretty rapidly.

> no great CS/CE universities

Columbus is 90 minutes away, and Amazon recruits internationally. Close
proximity to a good CS program is hardly a strict necessity.

~~~
mywittyname
Sure, but having a great university down the street means they get first crack
at interns.

The biggest problem with recruiting tech people to live in Cincinnati is that
most people are unimpressed when they visit. Cincinnatians like nasty food and
get excited over utterly boring events. So when visitors come, people
recommend they try Skyline and go to the fireworks or something and it
generally leaves a bad taste in the visitor's mouths.

Columbus seems like a better choice.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Sure, but having a great university down the street means they get first
> crack at interns.

I can't imagine an Amazon HQ in Cincinnati would have trouble recruiting
interns from Columbus, Cleveland, etc. They already attract interns to Seattle
from all over the country.

For every Skyline rec (which is, indeed, a shitty thing to do to a visitor),
there's a Graeters one. :-p

------
chrismealy
CEOs always locate headquarters were they want to live.

~~~
bryanlarsen
IIRC, about 80% of the time that a company moves its headquarters, the
headquarters move closer to where the CEO lives.

~~~
ianai
I hope something like that is the case. He was born in Albuquerque. That city
does have some tech talent and support but would hugely benefit from an HQ.
plus the sunsets are amazing and the COL low.

------
squozzer
I will "officially" hope AMZN chooses ATL (as leverage for a bigger raise) but
ATL has problems.

1) traffic -- not sure it's possible to get to ATL airport in 45 min during
rush hour, without using MARTA rail.

2) transit -- how much "developable" land has a mass transit stop on-site?
AMZN would either have to buy a developed site or have a MARTA rail spur
built.

3) ATL airport -- a certain airline has way too much power there.

But anyway, I found the perfect spot for AMZN if they can swing it - it meets
their core requirements (it's even built over a MARTA rail stop) --
[http://www.midtownatl.com/view/atandt-
building](http://www.midtownatl.com/view/atandt-building)

~~~
madcaptenor
"ATL airport -- a certain airline has way too much power there."

And that airline is increasingly big in Seattle as well.

------
rb808
I wonder if this will eventually be the main HQ. Amazon is a mass market
company which competes on the lowest costs. Seattle is too expensive now. Most
big retail stores are not based in expensive cities Walmart is based in
Arkansas, Target in Minnesota etc.

~~~
francisofascii
But isn't Seattle expensive because of Amazon being there?

------
ianai
I wish it'd go somewhere in the Deep South. It seems where tech jobs are most
lacking.

------
jamesie
The RFP says that sustainability is important. I would think Amazon would
consider climate change as a factor. Miami and other South East coastal cities
would be affected in the future by the increasing risk of flooding and
hurricane winds.

------
empath75
Given how important the Dulles corridor is to aws and how big their presence
is there already, and how important amazon's interaction with the federal
government is getting, it seems like Northern Virginia should be in
contention.

------
bane
Why not in the D.C. area, perhaps near Amazon's own data centers in Ashburn?
It's one of the richest, most educated places in the U.S., has huge quantities
of technical talent and plenty of high quality nearby schools with strong
technical programs and lots of people looking for opportunities outside of the
Fed space but don't want to move to the West coast. It also is within the
D.C./Baltimore/Philadelphia/NYC mega-city/region.

Ashburn hits pretty much all of their RFP requirements right away with the
development of the new metro line as well.

~~~
kerbalspacepro
If I had to guess, the D.C area might already be too big? They'd be competing
with all the military contractors/consulting groups that exist out here for
talent, housing, and transit access. Their best bet is a city that hasn't been
"techified" to having exorbitant rents.

------
nogbit
Also, any city willing to participate must have the following...

Top of the line medical centers, big ones! Fantastic sports teams, many of
them. Amazing universities, state college required. Seasons, a little of
everything for everyone. A small traffic problem, so it can get worse. Cheap
real-estate, so it can get more expensive. A port, you know, the ones with
access to shipping lanes. Land for more suburbs, so you can run out of land.

I'm sure the list is longer for the reasons why Silicon Valley and Seattle are
what they are, but that's a start.

------
tinduck
The federal government should pay Amazon to open an HQ in either Memphis, or
New Orleans.

Or let's say any metro area over 30% African American and over 1 million
people.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_area...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_with_large_African-
American_populations)

The major issue is that typically states ignore the needs of critical
infrastructure in those cities like Tier One Carnegie Classification
Universities.

------
losteverything
This could be aimed at a specific powerful senator/congressman that can change
policy.

What federal rule hampers Amazon, and if unleashed would cause great profit?

Privatize USPS Internet tax? Transportation (own roadways)

What policies?

------
cabalamat
> We are looking for a location with ... [a] business-friendly environment

Translation: we want lots of subsidies to move to your city. Because only the
little people should pay taxes.

------
avenoir
If they're after tax breaks and cheap land they can follow companies like
Sprint and Garmin and build open headquarters somewhere in East Kansas.

~~~
mratzloff
Small qualified developer pool to draw from and hard to attract outside
talent. I grew up in eastern Kansas and left in part because of dismal career
prospects.

They'll end up choosing an up-and-coming city (i.e., positive population
growth).

~~~
avenoir
Perhaps many years ago? Eastern Kansas has a pretty massive tech sector now.
So do some parts of Kansas City metro.

~~~
mratzloff
To be clear I'm not saying there's no tech economy in eastern Kansas (though I
think all involved would dispute a description of "massive"). Just saying that
dropping Amazon there won't magically make 50,000 qualified applicants appear.

“There are simply not enough workers in the area with the technical skills to
meet the demand of our region’s companies,” the report commissioned by the KC
Tech Council said. “This number will not decrease unless our region does more
to support tech workforce development.”

[http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/technology/article14...](http://www.kansascity.com/news/business/technology/article148948664.html)

------
xy55
I'm too late for anyone to see this, but they could probably take the Qualcomm
Stadium site in San Diego's Mission Valley. It's right on a trolley line and a
very easy drive to the downtown airport, not to mention an easy flight from
Seattle. UCSD is a great supplier of young talent and Qualcomm and Viasat
offer engineers they can poach.

------
ldp01
Wow, $25.7 billion total employee compensation / 50,000 employees is $514,000
per employee.

Err, that's not all in one year, right?

~~~
brantonb
That's in the "Direct" section which has this footnote:

>From 2010 (when Amazon moved its headquarters to downtown Seattle) to 2017.

------
ctvo
The research triangle[1] feels like a strong candidate. Excellent schools,
close enough for flights to the North East, accommodating southern state
government.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Triangle)

------
saikit
Newark, NJ.

Audible is already located there. Easy access to NYC and their many
distribution centers in New Jersey.

------
akhilcacharya
I hope RTP bids for them! It would be great to have 3 of the Big4 in the area.

------
MicroBerto
Texas has the inside track, too.

Wonder what city though... Austin's already too crowded as it is but has a
great talent pool. Could be better off somewhere like San Marcos or
Georgetown.

~~~
Cshelton
Dallas/North Dallas (Plano/McKinney/etc.)

Haven't seen it listen much but it is probably one of the top contenders.
There is a reason Toyota, along with many others, moved their (U.S.)
headquarters here.

~~~
sjm-lbm
North Dallas is getting crazy crowded, though. Enough that housing supply for
their potential workers really should be a concern for any additional company
looking to relocate there.

That said, engineer availability should be fairly good when compared to most
places outside of more traditional tech hubs (the area is served by
TCU/SMU/UTD directly, UT/Texas A&M/additional Texas schools indirectly, is
already near EDS and Perot Systems/whatever those two call themselves these
days) and the local authorities have shown both a desire and ability to
attract major company retractions. You would have to think the North Dallas
area is on the shortlist.

~~~
no_one_ever
While North Dallas is exploding (huge growth in population for the past
decade, maybe the most in the country?), it is far from being overpopulated.
There is absolutely _no_ shortage of land/property.

------
mudflaps
I think when all is said and done this will be less about tax credits and more
about choosing a city that's easy to work with on core issues like transit,
development, and infrastructure. There are only a few cities who can really
qualify in terms of having existing talent pools and being an attractive relo
destination. This isn't putting an auto plant in bumf __k. But working with
Seattle 's leaders ain't easy for anyone--sure, would be nice to get some tax
credits, but ultimately those are just one way a new HQ partner could signal
that they're seriously motivated to work well together. We'll see.

------
dbot
My guess is that Amazon will want to effectively "own" whatever city it
selects. Not only will they get incentives from government, but they'll want
to have primary influence over the business and educational communities. So
that when Amazon wants something, the city will go along. This will give them
a laboratory for all sorts of experiments, which is both fascinating and
scary.

While a city like my hometown Atlanta makes sense on paper - transportation,
great schools, awesome cost of living - there are too many other big players
here. I think they want a next-generation "company town."

~~~
DerfNet
They can come to St. Louis. Everybody else left. They can have the AT&T tower
downtown, it's empty.

~~~
leggomylibro
Already claimed by the Free Republic of Annheuser-Busch-land. How about East
St. Louis? I think the Spivey Building could use a new tenant...

------
rm_-rf_slash
Buffalo NY.

Pros: -Dirt cheap, so lots of land for Amazon

-Also means employees can afford their own houses, practically unthinkable for a new hire in Seattle. Bigger perk than foosball tables!!!

-Scores of Upstate/Midwest colleges and universities to recruit talent from

-Proximity to major markets of the East Coast, the Midwest, and Ontario.

Cons:

-Snow

-New York State taxes; abatement not as likely as in other states

-Erie County population not quite 1 million

-Snow

-The Bills always blow it, it's like they're cursed.

-Did I mention snow?

Buffalo might not be the best location for Amazon, but it very well could be a
good place to grow a company without spending half of your money on expensive
property, and the other half on salaries high enough to afford exorbitant
rents.

------
gadders
"A stable and business-friendly environment and tax structure will be high-
priority considerations for the Project. Incentives offered by the
state/province and local communities to offset initial capital outlay and
ongoing operational costs will be significant factors in the decision-making
process."

I'm no fan of high taxes, but holding this sort of reverse auction to see who
will provide the biggest bungs rubs me the wrong way.

------
kharms
I think they'll end up in Providence. Very close to Boston & NYC, cheap land,
reasonably close airport.

~~~
meddlepal
Doubtful. Just like Worcester is also doubtful. Amazon's not hurting for money
to lease or buy land and TF Green is too small (not enough direct flights)
compared to Logan.

------
vyrotek
The Phoenix area would be a great option.

~~~
stdgy
To add to that, they already have an engineering office in Tempe.

I suspect both Phoenix and Tempe will be strong contenders.

Positives: \- Affordable housing \- Affordable corporate real estate \-
Construction boom in both cities \- Local governments interested in wooing
corporations

Downsides: \- No deep CS university pipeline \- No strong tech presence,
complicating hiring \- Will need to offer incentives to get people to move \-
Public transport is lacking

------
m23khan
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada is probably the best place for Amazon to place
its HQ.

It has a huge international airport which has _tons_ of undeveloped land, good
road networks (HWYs, well-built roads), rail road connections, a harbour (Port
Credit) that can be expanded and the land prices aren't surreal. Combine all
this with a well educated local populace and a low crime rate.

------
mrep
wow, that only leaves 10 cities with a population over a million:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population)

~~~
sillypuddy
Looks like Amazon is looking at metropolitan area instead of city limit.

~~~
mrep
your right. 53 is much more reasonable:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistic...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas)

------
protomyth
They got tax breaks with their customer service centers, but that might have
been a bad bet for the city
[http://www.inforum.com/business/3978404-questions-linger-
aft...](http://www.inforum.com/business/3978404-questions-linger-after-amazon-
moves-employees-out-grand-forks-facility)

------
LyalinDotCom
It should be in NYC, there I saved them a ton of time asking for proposals.

------
3pt14159
I'm going to make the case for Toronto, for New York, and for SF / SV. The
reason I don't make the case for Vancouver is that it's essentially just a
Toronto with a smaller talent pool to draw on from Amazon's perspective. It's
like buying the non-M version of a BWM when you're a multi-millionaire. I
guess you could do it, but why? Also, I don't understand the Texas or DC tech
scene but there might be options here too. Lots of NSA programmers running
around and they're working on some complicated datasets.

I think the Toronto case is the strongest, but I think any of the three are
good choices.

1\. Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world. It is in a country
with a flexible, predictable, but different, immigration system, and with a
fairly robust financial sector and infrastructure. If Amazon can't get a
candidate into America, they can try getting that candidate into Canada
instead. This is key. America makes up only 5% of the world's population and
politics aside, is no longer an ideal place for a large percentage of the
world's population due to racism and hostility towards immigrants /
immigration. To attract international talent (including from New England, a
short flight away which can be critical for taking care of aging parents)
Toronto is by far the best choice in North America. It's more expensive than
Ottawa, but more fun and has a number of high quality Universities near by
(Waterloo, Toronto, Queens, and others) and compared to NYC or SV much, much
cheaper. Vancouver wouldn't be a terrible choice, but there's less of a talent
pool to draw from and the housing market is worse there. Toronto's current
mayor is very friendly to tech companies, and there is growing focus on bike
lanes and mass transit which means commuters from all corners of the GTA could
make it into work. Most of the cultural elite (influential journalists,
actors, etc) in Canada live in Toronto, which has subtle benefits like getting
Amazon into TV shows or interviews through personal connections. Playing
outside in the winter kinda sucks in Toronto though, Vancouver area has it
made here.

2\. New York has a huge pool of highly skilled developers with experience at
firms where microseconds are critical. Nobody outgrows New York. It's also a
place that has international prestige. An immigrant moving to Seattle or
Portland is "moving to America" according to their family whilst an immigrant
to New York is "moving to New York" Americans might not understand the huge
distinction between the two, but to people in Pakistan or even Canada being
able to make a living in New York is proving that you're one of the best in
the world. It won't completely make up for the Trump presidency, but it would
be a meaningful difference. Also, right next to banks and many important
regulators and press people. Tons of American cultural elite as well. One
downside of going NYC is that Amazon would have less bargaining power. The
city is so huge that the injection of cash and talent matters less than in
Toronto or Vancouver, so special concessions are harder to come by.

3\. SF / SV is the easy, pricey case. The best machine learning developers
live here. Machine learning is critical to Amazon's survival. They have
success hiring here, but it would be better if they had HQ2 here. Salaries are
much, much higher here, however.

------
sjg007
I think the Twin cities has a strong chance to get this.

~~~
gyc
I don't think the city or the state would be too interested in giving the type
of incentives that Amazon is looking for, unfortunately.

------
dgf7hsonoh
>We expect to invest over $5 billion in construction and grow our second
headquarters location to be a _full equal_ to Amazon’s current campus in
Seattle

Is this laying the groundwork for Amazon to pull a Boeing?

------
Multicomp
If Atlanta gets it I'll eat my shoe polish

------
the_arun
SFO Bay Area - You will get everything world class. More importantly, great
talent from your competitors!

------
widowlark
Who else thinks they might just put the second headquarters in Redmond? It
meets all of their criteria.

------
mikmeh
It's gonna be Denver

------
suyash
Let San Francisco win!

------
johan_larson
Is there a place that is so appealing it doesn't need to offer a discount?

NYC? Boston?

~~~
sillypuddy
Probably depends on priorities, the big cities will give you greater access to
talent, but would require flexibility on how a campus could be built out and
how quickly it would happen.

It's likely possible to build out a campus the way you want in a large urban
center. Universities do it, but they do it opportunistically over a long time.

------
dionidium
Fun round-up of local city subreddit threads:

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/6yn4lz/amazon_seek...](https://www.reddit.com/r/StLouis/comments/6yn4lz/amazon_seeking_locations_for_2nd_headquarters/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/6ymtng/imagin...](https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/6ymtng/imagine_if_this_was_philly_amazon_is_looking_for/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/6ymz3i/amazon_in_s...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Atlanta/comments/6ymz3i/amazon_in_search_of_a_2nd_hq_will_atl_make_the/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtondc/comments/6yn1ni/amazon...](https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtondc/comments/6yn1ni/amazon_is_looking_for_a_2nd_headquarter_city_a/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/6ymtgy/what_are_th...](https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/6ymtgy/what_are_the_chances_of_bringing_the_amazon_hq_ii/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/baltimore/comments/6ymu85/amazon_se...](https://www.reddit.com/r/baltimore/comments/6ymu85/amazon_seeking_2nd_hq_could_it_be_baltimore/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/kansascity/comments/6ynkoh/amazon_s...](https://www.reddit.com/r/kansascity/comments/6ynkoh/amazon_soliciting_proposals_for_new_north/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/6ynba4/amazon_annou...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/6ynba4/amazon_announces_plans_for_huge_new_north_america/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cincinnati/comments/6yoew7/could_ci...](https://www.reddit.com/r/cincinnati/comments/6yoew7/could_cincinnati_be_the_place_for_amazons_hq2/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/6ynqbr/amazon_s...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pittsburgh/comments/6ynqbr/amazon_seeks_new_city_for_headquarters_why_not/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/indianapolis/comments/6yo34a/amazon...](https://www.reddit.com/r/indianapolis/comments/6yo34a/amazon_hq2_propsal/)

\-
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Cleveland/comments/6yn5p3/amazon_is...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cleveland/comments/6yn5p3/amazon_is_looking_for_a_second_hq_city/)

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revmoo
My city (Louisville) would be a prime candidate due to proximity to UPS
WorldPort, and Amazon already has a bunch of facilities here.

That said, screw these guys. I'll make sure to have my voice heard if my city
tries to offer them tax rebates to come here. Everyone needs to pay taxes,
especially gigantic corporations. I hate that companies like this even have
the nerve to expect these sorts of breaks.

~~~
mhb
_Everyone needs to pay taxes_

Why is this different than New Hampshire competing with other states by having
no income tax?

~~~
mywittyname
Honestly, because it's a race to the bottom. On top of that, there have been
many instances of companies negotiating massive tax breaks only to relocate
again after a few years.

Those tax dollars are better spent making the city more attractive to people
and improving the universities. This will provide for more organic growth
through startups founded by people anchored to the city by their social
network.

~~~
mhb
I could see why a city wouldn't want to pay real money and then have the
company move, but what's the problem if they agreed not to tax Amazon and then
Amazon relocates?

------
omarforgotpwd
Translation: Whoever gives us the biggest tax incentives gets some of dat
amazon internet money

