

Ask HN: How much raise should I be looking for when moving to US from India? - legedemon

I&#x27;m a Software Engineer working remotely from India. My current compensation is $200K. My current employer wants me to move to San Francisco. I&#x27;ve read that the cost of living there is very high compared to the other cities in the US itself and several times when compared to India. To address my concern, my employer has promised to increase my compensation to $250K. I have two questions here:<p>1. Does the raise justify the increase in the cost of living there?<p>2. If the answer to 1 is not, what is a reasonable equivalent compensation?<p>While looking for an answer online, I found an equivalent income calculator[0] based on PPP. It tells me that the equivalent salary in the US should be ~$714K. That number looks rather outrageous. Hence, this post.<p>[0]http:&#x2F;&#x2F;salaryconverter.nigelb.me&#x2F;
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elssar
That's quiet a high salary you currently get. Usually when foreign companies
hire developers in India, they do it to reduce costs(for what you get, your
company could easily hire 5 really good developers, or 10 good ones). I'm
guessing that your company believes that compensation should be based on what
they believe the developer is worth and what they are willing to pay, instead
of where the developer lives.

$250k/year is probably twice the median salary for a developer in SF. Yes it's
not quiet the same as it would be in India, but still is pretty good. I
personally would take it, just because I feel it's a better place to live and
work.

To put it into perspective, Google pays it's CFO a base salary of $650K a
year. Of course there are bonuses, and stock options that make it much more
than that, but I doubt you'll get anywhere close to what the converter says.

~~~
legedemon
@elssar: Yes, my company actually pays based on what the developer is worth
and pays the same amount for same work across the world.

>I personally would take it, just because I feel it's a better place to live
and work.

This is what is vexing me. I feel the same but I know that my family would
need to make some pretty big lifestyle changes if I were to move there.

Thanks for the Google's CFO base salary number. That puts the converter out of
equation now.And thanks for your overall perspective too.

EDIT: The salaries in product companies in India have significantly gone up in
the last year and a half with so many FIIs pouring in funds. So, I think $200K
would only get 2 good developers at my experience level now.

~~~
elssar
> my family would need to make some pretty big lifestyle changes

That is something I don't have to consider. That makes the decision harder. I
know someone who chose to work on his own startup in India, over moving to
Mountain View, because he didn't want to move his family there.

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hkarthik
The math will always come out in favor of staying in India with a $200K salary
versus moving anywhere else in the world.

However, based on your other answers about what you do, it's unlikely that
this current $200K salary is sustainable. Your company can easily replace what
you do with a local developer for less than $200K. They are actually doing the
right thing by giving you the option to stay and move to the US.

The bigger question is, do you want to stay in India and can you accept living
there with something closer to a market salary in India?

The way I see it, your savings/spending rate has to go down either way, so you
might as well come visit for 2 weeks and see how you like it, and then decide.

~~~
sbank
> However, based on your other answers about what you do, it's unlikely that
> this current $200K salary is sustainable. Your company can easily replace
> what you do with a local developer for less than $200K. They are actually
> doing the right thing by giving you the option to stay and move to the US.

This is the most important thing to consider here, in my opinion. So OP,
answer this: You're fired from the company tomorrow, and you're out looking
for a job again. Where would you rather be? Which market would you prefer to
sell your services to? You're already making a killing, and you will continue
to make a killing after moving to the US. What happens _after_ this gig is
what's important here. This is potentially a rest-of-your-life decision. You
can always move back to India.

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atmosx
1\. Absolutely not.

2\. That's hard to answer really: That's a life-changing decision. Living in
SF might be liberating for some and very daunting for others. SF has a
(considerably) lower pay-check in your case but it might offer you
opportunities (startups, job offers, career choices, etc.) that you will
probably not have access too in India.

The 714k as a starting salary is out of proportion, you're never going to get
that in cash, but to me at first glance seems rather accurate as _disparity
indicator_ between making 200k in India and 250k in an expensive US city like
SF.

~~~
legedemon
Thanks for your inputs! _Disparity indicator_ is a nice phrase to know. I had
not considered it from the opportunity perspective but will add it to the list
of pros and cons. Some of the cool start-ups I'd love to work with are
definitely in SF.

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gtirloni
Payscale shows The top salary for a software engineer in Índia to be around
130k USD. If we are talking about The same currency, and considering India's
economic reality, I'd say you have the sweetest deal ever. Why move to SV and
barely be able to pay the bills with a 250k USD salary? Of course money isn't
everything and it might be a great cultural experience, but since you ate
asking here, I assume that's not your priority.

~~~
legedemon
Thanks for the answer. Yes, cultural experience is not my priority right now
though I like visiting from time to time and interact with diverse
individuals.

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codegeek
Disclaimer: I moved to the US from India as a teenager and now I am in my 30s.
I visit india often. So I have a few things to share.

Moving to US from India should not just be about salary even though a salary
of 200K is decent anywhere in the US even an expensive place like SF. But I
will give you more things to consider than just salary:

1\. Health Insurance. This is a huge one in the US. Very expensive if you pay
anything out of pocket and you are at your employer's mercy for this. OF
course good employers have good plans BUT what if you have to get your own ?
Imagine this. Without insurance, a lot of places will give you a HUGE bill
even for basic things like X-ray which are commodity in India. Yes there are
lot of pluses compared to India but the costs of health in US is a huge factor
to consider specially if you will live here for a long time.

2\. Cultural differences. Another biggie. How open are you and your family (if
married) ? Even if you are from an Indian metro (mumbai/delhi etc), the
culture in the US is very different. People are a lot more independent and on
a general basis, like their privacy. Indian culture is more about sharing. For
example little things like salary discussion to religion to more personal
things. Ppl here like to be left alone (again i m not generalizing but you get
the point).

3\. Access to human resources or labor. This is another biggie. In india, even
if metros, you can hire a nanny real cheap. For like 5000 Rs a month, you can
get a decent nanny for kids. That is less than $100 A MONTH!! Here, anything
less than a $1000 is extremely unlikely to get you a decent service. That is
10 times more. I am sure this number is even higher in SF (more like 2K?).
Want to hire a cook ? forget about it because not happening for $100.

So the point is that there are lot of things that Americans do on their own as
access to labor is not cheap. Not the case in India. If you are used to having
people do work for you in India, you will have to be a multi-millionaire to
get the same service in US.

And last, think hard about the cultural differnces again. Are you willing to
mingle with the local culture ? Are you willing to understand before judging ?
Initially, a lot of things/people will seem weird to you but remember, they
will think the same about you. Take your time, learn the culture and then try
and take the good things out it and ignore the bad stuff. Don't be too one
sided in your thoughts.

In my honest opinion, unless you are ok with all the points above, 200K in
India beats 250K in SF hands down. You are like the top 1% in India and not
even top 10% in SF.

~~~
legedemon
I am going to discuss insurance with my employer. It looks like it is a pretty
big deal in the US.

We've visited several countries in the past. So, cultural differences should
not be a big problem but since so many people are emphasizing on this point, I
think I'll come and stay for a few weeks as a worker rather than as a tourist
and check it out again.

3 is definitely what is troubling for my family which is used to such comforts
now.

Thanks for all your inputs!

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auganov
What about US insurance? Travel costs? Relocation costs? Etc.

The baskets of goods that most PPPs use are usually skewed towards basic
necessities rather than goods that middle/upper class people spend most of
their money on. So wouldn't look at that.

~~~
legedemon
Interesting. We haven't discussed anything about insurance. They are willing
to reimburse the travel cost for me. I'll need to buy tickets for my wife
though. I haven't really considered relocation costs but I think that'll be a
one-time expense.

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atishay811
Wow. Nothing can match a 200k salary for a dev in India. SFO is intellectually
more satisfying but maybe you can do a to and fro for a few weeks in a couple
of years.

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upr0ar
Partly out of curiosity, but it also might help get an accurate answer - what
kind of work are you doing?

~~~
legedemon
That's actually a little hard to describe exactly. In short, I do whatever
needs to be done on the technical side of things - from front-end development
to setting up the servers. There are two particular things that I think I'm
good at - debugging and performance tuning.

I think I'll be able to call myself a full-stack developer in a few years time
but for now I'm happy to be called just a RoR web developer.

~~~
mathgeek
Don't sell yourself short. You're a full stack developer currently. Your
salary reflects that (and then some).

~~~
legedemon
Yeah, at times I like to think so but I've had so many humbling experiences
that I'd wait a little longer before making that declaration.

I had once worked with a senior colleague who would run process traces on the
live Oracle database and uncover bugs in Oracle's code. I am at the level
where I can find bugs in open source code bases about which I've no idea but
not where I can find bugs only with the binary.

Then again, I see so many comments on HN about which I've no idea and which
still seem relevant to what I do.

So, you see where I am right now.

~~~
mathgeek
Seems like you're confusing seniority with your general role. It's alright to
be a mid-level full stacker. :)

~~~
legedemon
Agreed.

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gnurag
I doubt the converter would work accurately beyond the salary bellcurve.

