
The Best Monitor for Programming: A Cheap 40" 4K TV - masonicb00m
https://masonsimon.com/2017/11/26/the-best-monitor-for-programming-a-cheap-40-4k-tv/
======
Stratoscope
If you enjoy a low density of 110 pixels per inch, then this is for you.

I'm much happier with the high-DPI displays in my ThinkPad Yoga 460 WQHD and
MacBook Pro Retina 15".

I don't _like_ pixels, and I don't want to see them any more. I want to see
the text and graphics I'm working on, not pixels.

So when I wanted a second monitor to go with those machines, I got a 24" 4K
display. At 187 pixels per inch, it's a reasonably close match to the 210-220
pixels per inch on the laptops.

I use this monitor in portrait mode next to the laptop display. A portrait
mode monitor combined with the laptop monitor is great. I've got a wide screen
when I want it, and a tall screen when I want that. It's ideal for reading
documentation and especially PDF files, because an entire page fits on the
portrait screen. Larger monitors are not very practical in portrait mode.

I'm not concerned with cramming the maximum amount of stuff on my screen. I
run the monitors at 225% scaling in Windows, and the default Retina scaling in
macOS. So text is about the same size it would be on a lower-DPI monitor, just
much sharper and crisper.

After I got my first taste of high DPI with that MacBook, I swore I'd never go
back to a low DPI display. It is so nice to not have to look at _pixels_ any
more.

~~~
phkahler
If you were good with a 1920x1080 at 24 inches you get then same pixel
dentsity with a 4K at 48 inches. I've been looking for a 50" curved TV but
might have to settle for a 55" which will be fine for my slightly older eyes.
I grew up typing my code on an analog TV so I'm good with any modern monitor.
Having said that, 2 24" side by side is nice. Turning one of them into
portrait mode is sometimes nice. Having one giant display where I can lay all
my stuff out like a real desktop would be awesome.

~~~
nine_k
I have a 24" FullHD monitor next to a MBP 15". The picture on the former is so
poor compared to the latter that I only use it for reading email and web
browsing, and do all the code work on the 15" high-DPI screen.

Under Linux, situation is not as bad, since you can persuade xft to optimize
font rasterization for readability. OSX makes the choice towards glyph shape
fidelity, though, even at lower point sizes, which results in horrible anti-
aliasing blur.

~~~
sk5t
Possibly related: some Macs render terribly blurry text when the monitor color
profile is not to their liking--look for the "sRBG" toggle, and toggle it.

~~~
kofejnik
Especially so when using HDMI, Macbook often thinks it's a TV. You might want
to google patch-edid

~~~
nine_k
Wow. I wonder if it's a part of common lore which I was somehow oblivious of.

------
morelikeborelax
The TV mounted on blocks and the Hackintosh suggest the author is willing to
compromise and using a TV as a monitor confirms it. Don't get me wrong, I also
run a Hackintosh and have had monitors stood on boxes, crates and books over
the years, but when it comes to displays I really don't think you should
compromise.

I have converted many professionals away from TVs because when you can
actually have real quality monitors to compare them too it's usually a no-
brainer to abandon the cheap TV. No trick, no incentive for me, just the
better choice. It is also why every employee in our company has a pair of IPS
displays.

I've looked at 4K TVs as options for a monitor multiple times, from the early
Seiki TVs that hit at the start of the pricing change to what's been on offer
for Black Friday, don't do it to yourself unless you are spending most of your
time gaming/consuming content on the same system or just using it to monitor
things.

If you are going to be sat in front of displays for 10,000 hours a year
working/focusing (like many of us I am sure) then investing in something like
a pair of Dell U3415W, LG UM95 or LG 31MU97Z-B will give you a much nicer
experience. Totally appreciate that isn't a $300 solution, but as
professionals we should invest in (or demand from your employer) good tools.

To those of you who are using 4K TVs, it is obviously hard to get in front of
these monitors and see the difference, but if you can you should - you've
already made the choice to go for something better than a cheap 22" 1080P
monitor, there are a lot of options to create a great environment to do your
best work.

The article is just pure marketing anyway for referrals, so make of that what
you will.

~~~
masonicb00m
Tough crowd.

I dislike multi-monitor setups. Dunno if it’s the bezels or what. A single
unbroken surface feels better to me.

For a VC company’s web forum, some HNers sure find making money offensive :D

~~~
timlyo
I'm the opposite, I prefer multi monitor. I like that separation between the
things I'm doing, e.g. code and documentation, games and chat.

~~~
Insanity
Right on the spot for me. Having my tasks divided between monitors (and always
knowing which monitor to look at for program x) is great. I feel like it helps
my workflow a lot :-)

------
sz4kerto
Don't buy a cheap TV for programming if you're not constrained by money. You
can get 40" monitors for a bit more, and you won't need to fight the firmware
and also you can get a better panel. Also, PWM is worse if you're sitting
close. Uniformity of backlight (bleed) also matters.

Currently the display you want to get around 40" is the Philips BDM4037UW,
which has no PWM, relatively low input lag and backlight bleed is low.

There are some cheap 43" 4K monitors (Philips and LG), but they're lower
quality e.g. LGs have PWM.

~~~
bartread
Reviews on Amazon suggest the Philips BDM4037UW isn't a good choice due to
significant ghosting issues:

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-BDM4037UW-00-40-Inch-
Monito...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-BDM4037UW-00-40-Inch-
Monitor/dp/B01KUQJ414/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511768997&sr=8-1&keywords=Philips+BDM4037UW#customerReviews)

~~~
Awaythrov
Big caveat emptor on this one.

I have it on my desk right now and ghosting is really, really bad. Static
contrast ratio is best in class, second only to oled monitors.

If you are looking for large office/work monitor only or you can borrow one
with no strings attached, go for it. Otherwise stay away.

~~~
sz4kerto
Yep, I specifically meant it for programming / office work.

------
neya
I second the author's recommendation. I work with iMacs (5k) all day and I can
tell you there were a number of times I simply wished I had gotten an iMac Pro
with a bigger screen instead. However, one thing to watchout though when
getting these cheap TVs is to be mindful of the color reproduction. Most of
them will enhance the colors to make it appear vivid and pleasing to the eyes.
So, if you're thinking of doing stuff like logo design, Photoshop, you're
gonna find it very hard.

~~~
masonicb00m
Good point. I mainly do programming so color fidelity wasn’t a big concern.

------
gnarbarian
I've been using a philips 4k for a couple years now. previously the 40" and
now the 43" (the 40" died in a terrible VR accident)

[https://www.amazon.com/Philips-BDM4350UC-43-Inch-IPS-LED-
Mon...](https://www.amazon.com/Philips-BDM4350UC-43-Inch-IPS-LED-
Monitor/dp/B01E18XRY2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511741816&sr=8-1&keywords=philips+bdm4350uc)

it's 4:4:4 chroma at 60hz so it's great for gaming too. and has a lower
response rate than you'll get with TVs.

Highly recommended and it's hard to use anything smaller now.

Without using display scaling I wouldn't go lower than 40" and I think maybe
even closer to 50" is ideal in terms of keeping the scale comparable between
other periphial monitors. a 48" curved display would probably be perfect.

~~~
alanfranzoni
Many, too many BDM4065UC monitors suffer from "flashing" black and then, more
than occasionally, starting back at 30Hz instead of 60Hz (dp 1.2 connection).
Fixing that requires 1-2-3 monitor power cycles, and when the display is in a
"bad mood" it can happen 3/4 times per hour.

Source: I own and use a BDM4065UC which I'm about to return, and I've been
able to test another (previously owned) one, where the owner, who had a
totally different setup from me (mbpro retina 2015 is my workstation, his own
was a custom-built desktop with nvidia card); many other people on various
forums complain about that, and Philips support seems to know about the issue
perfectly.

I have been interested in BDM4350UC and/or BDM4037UC as well, but both have
been reported to suffer from extreme ghosting/persistence; I'm now looking
forward to buy an LG 43UD79-B.

What I agree is: a large monitor makes the difference. Not in the workflow per
se, but in how much eye strain, headache, back pain (from slouching to get
closer to the screen) and so on you get at the end of the day - which is
almost inexistent with such large displays. Even if it's $700 for the LG,
that's well spent money.

~~~
majewsky
Huh, I guess I'm lucky then. The only problem with my BDM4065UC is that at the
upper left corner, the leftmost column of pixels is obscured by _something_
(as if the panel was bent slightly backwards at the edge).

~~~
alanfranzoni
Possibly it's a problem from a batch of them, but such batch seems rather
large. I don't like that myself, because the BDM4064UC would simply be a great
monitor for programming work at that price point.

------
Insanity
I actually prefer having dual monitors over one big monitor. I dedicate
certain tasks to certain monitors, and that divide helps me quickly find what
I need.

It's also nice to have the physical separation for some reason I can't really
describe. My brother has a similar setup to the one in the article, and I just
never really liked using it.

Just personal preference I'm sure.

(I also fear my eyesight might be too bad to have a big monitor in 4k, with
things being rather small text)

For my setup, I prefer having (bright) IPS monitors. Not too large, I'm fine
with my 24" 1080p monitors.

------
elnygren
Why are 4K TVs cheaper than 4K monitors (same size) ?

Something to do with marketing and how the two businesses differ (TVs B2C,
monitors B2B)?

Or are there actual major differencies in the tech? Like what panel is used or
something like that?

~~~
wernercd
Economics of scale - many more TVs sold than computer monitors.

Add to that the different features - higher DPI, refresh rate, contrast
ratios, etc. Cutting edge features such as NVidia G-Sync and the similar
feature from AMD don't come cheap.

[https://mybroadband.co.za/news/hardware/145753-why-
computer-...](https://mybroadband.co.za/news/hardware/145753-why-computer-
monitors-are-more-expensive-than-tvs.html)

------
wernercd
Seems very similar to "4K is for programmers" which was written when 4k
monitors/TVs had just been released.

[http://tiamat.tsotech.com/4k-is-for-
programmers](http://tiamat.tsotech.com/4k-is-for-programmers)

I, personally, own one of those TVs (Seiki 39") and both love and hate it.
I've always seemed to buy TVs for day to day computing because you generally
get more cutting edge features for better prices (My first flat screen was a
27" WestingHouse TV. First 4k, Seiki. ETC).

Economics of scale factor in heavily - more TVs will be sold than computer
monitors leading to better prices. Which is why I could get a Seiki 4k for
$400 when similarly sized 4k "Desktop" monitors were going for $1000+.

The most annoying thing has been "Turn of monitor, Computer considers it
unplugged". So you go from 2 monitors to 1 - and all the icons rearrange.
Computer goes to sleep? Monitor turns off... disconnects... Annoying.

The price of saving $600+ for 4k (At the time).

I've recently upgraded to a smaller "computer" monitor that's better suited
for gaming and desktop use... and the Seiki is now my computer room Plex
Player.

------
cpr
Funny, I was just pondering this yesterday: whether to "upgrade" to the LG,
Phillips or Dell 40+" IPS monitors, or whether to stay with my Samsung 40" TVs
(UN40JU6400, 2015 models--later models have annoying misfeatures), which I
have in all 3 home offices.

These Samsung TVs, once configured properly (Source > HDMI 1 > Tools, select
device type as PC, turn off HDMI UHD Color (which blurs), turn on Dynamic
Color as well), are excellent, and at the 28" viewing distance I use, are
absolutely crisp (no pixels visible) in Retina mode under macOS.

And I'm using it over HDMI 30Hz with absolutely no flicker, and no
(discernible) mouse lag.

The 2015 models don't lose their mind when the Mac goes to sleep, unlike the
later models, which require re-configuring each time (the TV "forgets" the
HDMI port).

Can't recommend them more, especially since you can get these older models
refurbished for $400.

~~~
MikeTV
FWIW I have the 6290 (2016 model) and haven't run into any annoying
misfeatures. Crisp and smooth at 60Hz, UHD color mode. Was stuck at 30Hz and
perceptibly laggy until I forced it to 4:4:4 in the nVidia control panel.

Everything online tells me the display lag is unacceptable, but I haven't
noticed it personally even when FPS gaming. Maybe it's the conditioning from
gaming on an underpowered PC growing up :)

------
rawnlq
For a compromise, there are now 32" 4k monitors meant for computer use for
around $300 if you look for the black friday and cyber monday deals:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/7ehzic/monit...](https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/7ehzic/monitor_acer_et322qk_32_inch_4k_uhd_4ms_3840x2160/)

40" is roughly 1.5625 times in area of a than 32" though...

~~~
Bromskloss
That's a VA panel. Is that really acceptable?

~~~
Tepix
What's wrong with VA panels? Beats a TN panel any day.

~~~
Bromskloss
> Beats a TN panel any day.

Yes, TN is even worse. One must have an IPS panel! :-)

(I hear, though, that TN, and maybe VA, might be preferred by some for high-
performance gaming situations, due to a lower latency.)

------
Tepix
The article states:

"You need to elevate this beast vertically otherwise you’ll be craning your
neck down to look at it."

A 40 inch TV is at least 50cm high. You should not be looking up - it's very
bad for your neck. Looking down is no problem. The upper edge of the monitor
should be at eye level.

~~~
roryisok
I read that this is because we evolved as hunter gatherers, walking and
scanning the ground ahead for possible food. Our optimum standing posture is
looking straight ahead or slightly down

------
positr0n
I wonder how that TV performs for "monitor" tasks like automatic input
switching.

I have a Sony x720e for my macbook for work and my PC for light gaming. It has
graphics and gaming modes that have low input lags, but there is a really
annoying quirk where when you turn the tv on it has normal (high) input lag
until you switch to another mode then back to graphics mode. This means every
time you turn on your PC (or plug in your laptop) you have to:

1\. Turn on the TV

2\. If necessary, switch inputs

3\. Options -> Scene Select -> up arrow, down arrow

1 and 2 are annoying since monitors do that automatically but the TV doesn't.
3 is really annoying but hopefully is fixed in a firmware update...

Other than that the screen looks great.

I'm hoping for time to hack on an arduino with an IR LED to automate those
steps, haha.

~~~
naoru
Offtopic, but this is very interesting. I have this sort of problem as well,
but with color rendering. Not on a Sony, but on a Philips (50PUT6400). Makes
me think that they might use a common platform for their entry-level TVs.

------
gavanwoolery
I've been using a 55 inch 4k TV [1] for the past year. Its a matter of
preference, but I prefer more usable space over DPI. I have found at this
resolution pixels are small enough that they do not bother me. It takes some
tweaking, but if setup right, text quality is indistinguishable from a "real"
monitor. Its the rough equivalent of 4 27-inch 1080p monitors arranged in a
square.

To get an idea of the size, here is a picture of me sitting next to it. [2]

[1]
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EV2094Y](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EV2094Y)

[2] [https://imgur.com/a/9uBCG](https://imgur.com/a/9uBCG)

------
petecooper
I'm curious about the mentions of Hackintosh. As I understand it, running
macOS on non-Apple hardware (the essence of a Hackintosh) is a violation of
the EULA.

I'm not here to argue the pros and cons, and I am not a lawyer, but I'm
intrigued about the author saying -- and I paraphrase -- "I'm doing this on a
computer that's breaking the licence agreement". That's an admission. I'm not
judging, it's an observation. Hackintosh admissions on a personal site where
they can be traced back to a person seem a bit risky to me.

I have no knowledge of Apple legal circling. Perhaps I'm just paranoid.

~~~
mikeokner
EULAs in general are somewhat of a farce. Most companies use them as scare
tactics but wouldn't want to risk them being scrutinized in court, especially
when the only damages they could point to would be lost revenue in small-
claims territory.

------
d--b
I'm much happier with 4 small screens than a big one. 4 screens means I can do
4 x full screens rather than having to arrange my windows in a big sandbox. I
also prefer having them in a long row, rather than 2x2, I put the code on one
side and emails on the other, so that I don't see notifications when I code...

~~~
spyder
[https://maxto.net/](https://maxto.net/)

[https://www.online-tech-tips.com/free-software-
downloads/spl...](https://www.online-tech-tips.com/free-software-
downloads/split-or-divide-your-desktop-screen-into-multiple-parts/)

And there are 4k monitors that can work with 4 inputs at the same time:

[https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/5/2/15513200/lg...](https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/5/2/15513200/lg-4k-monitor-42-inch-
ips-freesync-43ud79-b)

[https://www.pcworld.com/article/3074246/displays/dells-4-scr...](https://www.pcworld.com/article/3074246/displays/dells-4-screen-
multimonitor-setup-looks-like-one-enormous-43-inch-display.html)

------
balabaster
I think best is a relative term.

For me, as long as my code is readable, it doesn't particularly matter. I'm
not doing graphics 95% of the time and when I _do_ graphics, it only really
becomes necessary to have a high contrast, high pixel density screen. I run
dual Samsung 2770HD TVs at home as my monitors, they sit 2ft from my face and
they're perfectly adequate for me and the price was right. I guess if you're
anal about picture perfection, then you're going to have a very different
opinion of what is "best" and mine are certainly a loooong way from the
"best."

When I watch a TV show or movie though, I don't get too hung up on the picture
quality to just watch the movie and enjoy the story line. Of course, I grew up
with a black and white TV in my room until I inherited the colour one that we
had to tune with a dial and you got some snow interfering with the picture if
the aerial wasn't just right. Oddly, it didn't spoil my enjoyment of the show
or movie that I was watching even slightly. The story line is _way_ more
important than the picture quality.

For coding, the story line is the same... it lives in my head. The screen is
really just a means to share that. I get no less enjoyment coding on a screen
with a slightly lower pixel density than I do coding on the latest retina.
Even after I've sat in front of one that's truly high quality, it doesn't take
long to adjust back to a lower quality screen.

------
danso
Since people seem to be lukewarm to the TV suggested by the OP, I did an
Amazon search for 4K TVs under $600:

[https://www.amazon.com/s/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_n_size_browse...](https://www.amazon.com/s/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_n_size_browse-
bin_3?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A%21493964%2Cn%3A1266092011%2Cn%3A172659%2Cn%3A6459737011%2Cp_36%3A-60000%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_three_browse-
bin%3A7688788011%2Cp_n_size_browse-
bin%3A1232882011%7C3578042011&bbn=6459737011&sort=review-
rank&ie=UTF8&qid=1511789771&rnid=1232878011)

Anyone have any experience with the top TVs on this list? The top entry from
TCL seems to be the leader, by far, in terms of average customer review, but
the price point seems almost too good to be true: $379 for the 55' version,
though that may have been a sale price, and the TV is currently out of stock.

[https://www.amazon.com/TCL-49S405-49-Inch-Ultra-
Smart/dp/B01...](https://www.amazon.com/TCL-49S405-49-Inch-Ultra-
Smart/dp/B01MTGM5I9/)

~~~
The_Hoff
I have the 55" TCL and it's great! Reminds me of the early Vizio days where
they had to be priced closer to production cost in order to compete with
bigger players. My one con is that the HDR doesn't seem perfect. The blacks
don't seem "true black" and based on the comparison lower on the page I wonder
if this is because it's not "Dolby Vision HDR"

~~~
viggity
I have the 43" TCL 4k. I highly recommend turning off HDR when using it as a
monitor. Up close it kinda creates this ghosting effect where black text on a
gray background will get this light halo kind of thing, ugh, it looked
horrible. once you turn it off it is much nicer to look at.

------
keredson
yep! it's the standard now for new dev boxes where i work. the samsung mu6300
40" is the best option from our experience. how to config:

[https://medium.com/@keredson/using-the-samsung-
mu6300-40-4k-...](https://medium.com/@keredson/using-the-samsung-
mu6300-40-4k-tv-as-a-computer-monitor-8582390bb824)

stay away from the LG TVs. they don't have true 4k RGB.

------
ta2384428
I had a 28/27" 4k monitor, but like the author I found it far too small (the
pixel size) to use comfortably. Unfortunately I was working with legacy
applications that didn't support scaling and couldn't adjust the DPI. I have
no doubt it would be much nicer at 125/150%.

One thing that is certain is that people have different preferences. Certainly
some people would enjoy the tiny pixels of the 27" 4k monitor at 100%.

My current setup is 2x24" 1920x1200 monitors. I have considered 3x24, 1x Ultra
wide or 2x Ultra wide, but I'm not convinced I'd get the same comfort. I think
that 3x 24, or 2x ultra wides would require to much head rotation to be
comfortable.

I prefer the vertical break in the screen since it makes snapping windows
easier. I'm starting to think that I might prefer a bit more real estate, as I
often collapse the vertical file menu in my editor for a little extra room.

------
pixelbash
Went from 3x 1920x1080 monitors to a 43" 4k IPS display a little over a year
ago and has been great once used to it. Tiling 6 apps using divvy works
nicely.

Lately I have found myself wishing there was a wider format 5760 x 2160 screen
of about 37-43" for 6 full HD screens-worth. But can't have everything I
guess.

~~~
ianhowson
Agreed -- I find that a single large high-res display works better for my
purposes. 32" at 4K is exactly right for three side-by-side 1280xY windows,
which means that browsers will display full desktop-sized sites. Text isn't
_too_ small with the 32", so no scaling required. Divvy makes window
management much faster, with little mouse interaction required.

I have two 27" 2560x1440 displays at work, but I find it counterproductive to
look side-to-side constantly to see what's on the other screen.

------
corruptbytes
Interesting enough, over the summer at Microsoft, they were actually switching
out for the 4k TVs. It wasn't that bad tbh. Definitely different. The Surface
Books couldn't handle it very well (they didn't have GPUs) but the work
stations did great.

------
dawnerd
I just see an article to push an affiliate link for a pretty bad tv let alone
the best.

~~~
masonicb00m
3 affiliate links actually. It’s probably not the absolute best, but nuance
makes for tedious writing. The general pattern of a 40+ inch 4K display is
definitely worth a shot. If you find a better one for price/performance, I’d
love to hear.

------
bondolo
I've been using a 100cm/39" Seiki 4K for about 3 years and wish for a
physically smaller 4K screen. Using eye glasses with progressive lens I have
to move my head too much with this screen and after long periods of use I find
that I have neck strain.

I love the 4K pixels but 100cm/39" is simply too much surface area for a
monitor used for primarily small text. My next monitor will probably be a
69cm/27" 4K and hopefully OLED if they fix the burn-in issues that make OLED
unsuitable for computer use.

~~~
regulation_d
Interesting. I used the 39" Seiki for a couple of years and moved up to a 49"
for my next monitor, but mostly just so I could push it further back on my
desk.

------
dugmartin
I've been using a 44" 4K TV for around two years as my main monitor and it's
been great. The only very minor pain point is having to manually turn the TV
off and on via the remote in the right order so that Windows 10 doesn't reset
my window layout. The Visio TV I use has 1 of the 5 HDMI ports set aside to
not route through its image processor which means text stays very clear.

~~~
christophilus
My biggest concern is that TVs generally don't have a good refresh-rate
relative to monitors. Have you noticed any lag/annoyances in that department?
Do you have a link to the TV you use?

------
mneubrand
I just got myself a TCL 43S405 43" as a monitor. It supports Chroma 4:4:4 and
I'm really happy with it so far. Target has it on sale for 299 right now:
[https://www.target.com/p/tcl-43-4k-hdr-120hz-cmi-roku-
smart-...](https://www.target.com/p/tcl-43-4k-hdr-120hz-cmi-roku-smart-led-tv-
black-43s405/-/A-52177069)

------
jcadam
I've been thinking of going to 4k for a while, just been waiting for prices to
drop :) I'm currently using 2 24" dell 1080p monitors, and I have to admit the
low DPI is getting to me and I want more screen real estate in general -- I
can never have enough code listings open at one time :).

OTOH, upgrading my home setup (which I use for side projects, etc.) will only
make my work setup seem worse - they gave me 2 22" 1680x1050 monitors. I've
only been here for 2 weeks and haven't been given any actual work to do yet,
so I don't know how annoying that low resolution is going to be (but I'm sure
it will be). Not nearly as annoying as the loudly buzzing/rattling vent and
the headache-inducing blazing fluorescent tubes directly over my head, I'm
sure (though, combined with the gray carpet, the gray walls, the gray ceiling,
and the lack of any and all natural light, I must say, they've really nailed
the office environment from "Joe vs the Volcano")...

------
peterhajas
I have been using 3 inexpensive 4K 40” TVs for my home computer for a year
now. I love the insane amount of real estate and the accessible price (<$1K is
great).

I’d love it if someone made extremely large format displays (100”+ at 3:1
aspect ratio) for computer use. Not sure how large the market would be, but
one giant display is nicer than 3 separate one so.

------
devonkim
I’m all for crisp text however I can get it and avoiding any eye strain and
squinting. I’ve got a AW3418DW 34” ultrawide to avoid needing two monitors
with a bezel in the middle, and I also use a 24” 4K in portrait mode on the
side for reference material (IPS because viewing angle matters when you go
into portrait mode). Ergonomics and good habits matters a lot more beyond this
point though.

My rule has historically been to spend more on the peripherals like chairs,
desk, etc. than a computer because my body is a lot more expensive than my
computer and accommodating my body’s needs comes first. With that said, I use
a $60 medical stool per spine surgeon’s recommendation and I have a $80 IKEA
desk to support $6000 of hardware because I don’t get much more utility beyond
a certain point and because I move so frequently a heavy desk would be a
bigger problem for me than helpful.

------
chrissoundz
I have been using a 4K 40" TV as a monitor for maybe two years now, it's
great! Windows tiling managers work really well on a large monitor. I keep
thinking a curved TV would be better suited though.

Also, don't forget to turn on a possible 'gaming mode' (on the TV) which
significantly improves the input lag.

Here is screenshot of a layout I use
[https://camo.githubusercontent.com/79de6fc01f5370345d4b9c4c9...](https://camo.githubusercontent.com/79de6fc01f5370345d4b9c4c927af1af09d11c45/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f754644383757522e6a7067)

The above uses XMonad and a custom layout available here
[https://github.com/chrissound/XMonadLayouts](https://github.com/chrissound/XMonadLayouts)
if anyone is interested.

------
wnevets
I actually did this for a couple of years but recently switched back to a dual
setup. The dual setup is just better for web development IMO. One screen for
chrome dev tools or the website and the other screen for sublime.

Also the 4K TV I was using only had a 30hz refresh rate, really bad for eye
fatigue.

------
georgewsinger
In the future, people will be able to use VR for programming work.

[https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula](https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula)

This is a modern project which is attempting to pull this off in Linux.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
It isn’t clear that headset VR will beat eventual direct brain connections or
the singularity where programming is no longer a human activity.

------
greenbush
Quick question for those that use a 40" monitor: how far away do you sit from
it?

~~~
red75prime
Let me measure it... 77cm (30.315") from the center. 42" TV.

------
nottorp
That only goes if you're willing to fight the firmware all the time. Bonus,
crap colours if it's a cheap TV. Doesn't matter for programming, but if you
occasionally do anything else besides shuffling text around...

~~~
masonicb00m
I thought this would be the case, but I have been really pleasantly surprised
by the quality. I watched some 4k60 videos on YouTube on this thing and
thought they looked great. I have not done any gaming with it though. A
photographer or graphic artist could probably find fault, but for me, it is
very satisfactory.

~~~
nottorp
So I said until i had an older cheap monitor and an IPS monitor side by side
;)

Tech specs are an easy way to compare stuff, but they don't always say
everything.

------
cat_plus_plus
Why only 40 inch - get whatever fits on your desk. 4K monitor will not be
painfully pixelated up close. If you coded through the past decade, you will
likely see an improvement from some of your recent monitors. At the end of the
day, it's about getting the work done, not DPI competition. Although you may
use only the center for an IDE, sides are perfect for e-mail, calendar, IM,
device emulator, stackoverflow, other source files for reference. A quick side
glance is way better than moving windows back and forth. I wish I had attached
side panels at an angle for more space.

------
arca_vorago
There is some really good discussion in this thread about the ergonomics of
monitors. As a sysadmin, one thing I've learned is that ergonomics of
workspaces, at home and at the office, are far too often overlooked or
compromised on, so please, for your own future health, take a moment to review
how your workspaces affect you physically. That means monitor setup, keyboard
and mouse position, chair height and back support, etc.

For those who have been neglecting these things, a good stretching routine and
daily posture work is probably the best starting point.

------
luckydude
Old guy here who disagrees. My neck/eyes get tired moving over that much real
estate. For me, work spaces work better. I find it helps to use the same
number and place stuff the same way. I use 5.

mail

work

work

slack

firefox

Been doing that for years and I can find stuff fast.

------
tluyben2
And I find my 13 inch laptop too large :) I loved the 11 inch Macbook but the
res was too low; 1920x1200 as I have now is nice, but 11 or 10 inch screen
would be better.

------
loudandskittish
Don't sit too close to the TV, you'll hurt your eyes.

~~~
ioquatix
As long as you are at least 1cm away, your eyes should be fine.

~~~
Tepix
As long as your eyelashes don't touch the display, it's ok. Some people have
cut their long eyelashes to be able to get a larger field of view in Virtual
Reality...

------
makkesk8
I've tried so many monitor setup's for programming and I always ran out of
screen space. Went from 1 24" 1080p to 3 and finally landed on 6 and I now
feel like I have enough room. A side benefit of having 6 monitors is that it
looks damn cool. Reference:
[https://i.imgur.com/rjO3bLw.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rjO3bLw.jpg)

~~~
bllguo
What are you putting on 6 (!?) screens when you code??

Does look cool though.

------
snarfy
The stands on a 4K TV suck compared to a monitor. There is no height or tilt
adjustment. They also generally have higher input lag.

------
LIB53
I've been using a 4k 49" TV as a monitor for a few weeks now. It was just a
lazy stand in for my defective 27" monitor at first, but it's pretty
convenient. Lower DPI is the only thing that isn't too great, but now that I
have this setup, I think I was overrating DPI. I'm thinking I'll just stick
with this.

~~~
regulation_d
I like that with a monitor that big I can push it to the very back of my desk,
freeing up a good bit of desk space.

~~~
LIB53
Me too! I feel like it's a really versatile setup, and definitely de-cluttered
my desk at home.

------
z3t4
I actually prefer sharp pixels when programming. Seeing the pixels doesn't
bother me. But blurred pixels does bother me.

------
friendzis
TVs have very different matrices compared to monitors (and mobile displays
too) in physical pixel layout. TV matrices tend to have much larger "border
width" and colored cells more prominently spread, which pushes closest optimal
viewing distance further. I personally find text on TVs very tiring for the
eyes.

------
theelous3
If you're ok with switching to linux, or are already using it, a tiling wm is
easily a better investment (5 mins to learn, orders of magnitude more space
and time efficient) than buying a big monitor with low dpi etc.

A bad 720p laptop with a tiling wm has more available screen real estate than
a 4k monster regular setup.

~~~
oblio
... how?

~~~
keenerd
Simple, most other window management paradigms are terrible. The author
agrees:

> _On a laptop screen or normal-sized desktop monitor, I end up putting these
> different windows on different macOS spaces, but then half the time I swipe
> the wrong direction to switch spaces and end up going to the wrong space. By
> the time I get to the correct space my short-term memory is blown and I’ve
> forgotten what I was doing._

I've never had this issue on a tiler. You get 10 (maybe 20) screens accessible
with a single key combo. You can thoughtlessly toggle back and forth between
any two as fast as you can blink. "Swiping" between a few desktops sounds
terrible by comparison.

I'm do embedded development, PCB CAD, some graphic design and manage a fleet
of servers all from a single 10" laptop screen thanks to tiling.

Unless you were asking how a 720p screen can have more real estate than a 4K
screen? 4K is 3840x2160 or 8.3M pixels. 1280x720 is 0.92M pixels. So with 10
virtual desktops the 720p screen gives you 9.2M pixels. Slightly more than a
4K screen.

You also get the benefit of not having to move your eyes or head from one
corner of the screen to the other. What you are working on is always front and
center.

------
drewmol
Does anyone use a projector for this? I have occasionally used a macboook
monitor and 10' projector + screen(made of Fomrica countertop) as a duel
screen setup, but I have always wanated to rig up some kind of multiple mini-
projector office setup with duel or tiple screens.

~~~
fsiefken
You could also get the Pimax 8k VR headset and position your virtual screens.

~~~
drewmol
Thanks, I think the thing I like about the projector is for me I notice much
less eye strain

------
chendragon
I have a 50" Sharp (well, made by Hisense) TV I got for C$469.

99.8% sRGB coverage and 81.3% DCI-P3 and very little input lag. It's also a
Smart TV. So far, I'm happy with it. I run 100% scaling and don't see any
pixels when I sit far enough so I do enjoy it.

------
PeterStuer
Televisions aren't optimized for interactive use. They often have a very high
latency path from input to display, often over 10x that of the same panel used
in a monitor. Depending on the application, this might be a showstopper.

------
VectorLock
I tried this and 40" was just too large. I suppose if you get yourself an
extra wide desk but the regular IKEA desk and height adjustable Multitable I
used it simply too close to use comfortably.

------
keithnoizu
I'm holding out for my Pimax 8k X and infinite size 4k monitor.

------
hyperpallium
Monitor legs on each side drive me crazy, because that's where my mouse wants
to go. There's no mouse in this picture.

~~~
masonicb00m
There’s an Apple trackpad in the middle between the split keyboard.

~~~
hyperpallium
Thanks, I thought that was a paper notepad.

------
singularity2001
40'' is too much. it just makes it painful to push your mouse and windows
around

~~~
ianhowson
Get Divvy and never waste your time moving and resizing windows.

~~~
shoover
Hmm. I’ve been using WindowSpace for years for snapping and centering, but it
doesn’t support customization beyond sizing sides and corners. I will check
out divvy.

------
NamPNQ
I used monitor 27" and it's large with me, how about 40"

------
dharma1
Anyone spot any UK cyber monday deals with this in mind?

------
zodPod
Anyone know what that keyboard is? I need that.

~~~
masonicb00m
Kinesis Freestyle2 Blue ([https://masonsimon.com/2017/11/26/the-best-monitor-
for-progr...](https://masonsimon.com/2017/11/26/the-best-monitor-for-
programming-a-cheap-40-4k-tv/#comment-22))

------
z3t4
Meanwhile most users are using a mobile device ...

------
mdip
To each his own, I guess. In my case, I find advantages to both _so much_ that
I routinely switch between them.

My main workstation is connected to a 55" Vizio HDTV (a model that supports
Chroma 4:4:4 and represents text of various colors very well) that I picked up
last year during a post-Thanksgiving sale. While I love it, I do the lionshare
of my development using a 1080p display connected to a laptop. Is the 4K
screen superior? Absolutely -- in almost every way -- except for portability.

I made the switch from multiple 1080p monitors to a single laptop monitor a
few years ago and ditched the multiple monitors for the single 4K (which had a
total resolution about equal to my multi-monitor arrangement). The transition
was tricky at first, though, and coupled with a visual studio extension that
aided in navigation/visual identification of important code points (something
I wrote for myself), I found _downgrading_ to the 1080p single display to take
far less time to get used to than I expected.

The one drawback turned out to be a positive thing in the long run: by not
being able to see so much code on-screen at all times, it forced me to write
code more carefully. Where I could have gotten away with not splitting a class
up into smaller pieces, before, because I could see the whole thing on-screen,
I couldn't do that any longer and continue to be productive writing code.
Sticking with small methods that "do one thing" and small classes that have a
single purpose is a best practice and it's one I was pretty religious about
_before_ , however, there are times when it's necessary to "get the code out
the door" and corners get cut, mostly out of a false-sense that writing it
dirty will be faster[0].

There's one place where the 4K screen is _vastly_ superior, though --
debugging. You can get your code, the locals/watch and the application visible
in one screen. This, too, turned out to be a double-edged sword. It was easy
to skip seemingly unimportant unit tests when I knew my debugging environment
was pristine. But the reality (for me at least) is that the _moment_ I have to
hop into the debugger and check locals/watch to see what's going on, I can
expect to waste an hour fixing a problem 80% of the time. Here's the thing,
though, writing tests to cover my code rarely takes more than an hour or two
but the simple act of doing so causes me to _rethink the problem_ from a
testing standpoint. I'll often find the bug before I've ever run the test to
validate that it passes -- and about 1/3 of the time, that bug was _subtle_.
Less often, but still frequent, I'll discover during the act of writing the
test that the code could be refactored in a more logical manner, which results
in better code. These facts mean I write tests _regardless_ of having a great
debugging environment, and I'm obsessive about it -- covering code that seems
obvious[1] -- so I end up rarely needing the benefits that a 4K screen offers.

Being handicapped by the smaller screen on my laptop does come with advantages
beyond just those introduced by the constrained environment. I'm not tethered
to a room or location to code. Sometimes walking away or changing my physical
environment ends up allowing me to avoid an actual "break" \-- just moving
from the office to the kitchen (when I worked at home) or from my desk to the
office-kitchen couch (now that I'm an office dweller) causes enough of a shift
to get me thinking correctly again.

All of that aside, one area where the 4K screen shines is anything to do with
multimedia, 3D and image editing. Being able to do detail work, zoomed in on a
screen that accurately reproduces color -- and at a cost that's a fraction of
4K monitors -- is simply fantastic. I also find the brightness of the 4K TV I
purchased to be excellent -- the IPS monitors that I own tend to default to a
brightness setting that is almost excessive (yes, adjustable, I know). I
purchased a TV that was evenly backlit and once I got everything configured
properly, I don't mess with it. The size and amount of light it outputs is
pleasant; it's large enough that I can use it with the lights turned off in my
office (if I have a headache) and it keeps the room reasonably lit while not
blasting so much light out of the display as to be obnoxious. Despite not
being IPS, being large and me sitting a couple of feet from it, I didn't
notice any issues with edges looking dimmer due to the angle -- though I
mostly ignore the edges because I rarely have _anything_ maximized on that
screen. It's just not necessary when you have all of that realestate -- you
tend to simply move less important things off to an edge and put what you're
working on in the middle in a smallish window.

[0] And it sometimes is in the short-run, but if that code has any importance
to the program, you pay for it.

[1] I'm not "Test Driven" \-- I write tests "second" because I started writing
code quite a bit before "Unit Testing" was a common practice and I find the
act of doing "Tests First" to feel backward. Writing tests afterward seems to
have the same benefits as doing it the other way around, though it sometimes
drives code changes. I've been doing it this way for too long to switch and be
as productive as I am. But I cover _everything_ \-- I once wrote tests to
cover a configuration lookup class that was basically a bunch of retrievals
from a dictionary. A coworker chided me for it until I informed him that I
found four bugs (and the best part is that said coworker was the one who wrote
the buggy code). Because of the way the configuration routine worked --
cascading from a set of values in the database with fallbacks to values in a
file and then finally constant values, all of which would _always_ be set
correctly from top to bottom in our development environment, the issues I
unearthed would have _easily_ gone unnoticed until a customer discovered them.

------
megaman22
I was just thinking about this, since my girlfriend bought a 50" 4k TV for
under $250 on black friday. That's about the same size and resolution as my
current array of 27" monitors, without having to use four outlets and every
available video-out on my desktop.

------
eighthnate
I personally prefer 2 or 3 monitors rather than one large monitor. One monitor
for code. Another for debuggin. Another for servers,VM, testing,etc.

