
The Problem With The Big Bang Theory - Ashuu
http://butmyopinionisright.tumblr.com/post/31079561065/the-problem-with-the-big-bang-theory
======
nounaut
This again? TBBT is a comedy show. People laugh because it's funny. The
culture that has spawned around TBBT has made nerd/geek culture cool. People
don't buy and wear "Bazinga!" shirts because they like Penny and finds Sheldon
to be a some kind of freak. The general audience love these characters. And
through building that love and care of these guys, Chuck Lorre if anything has
made Science and geek culture more populare than ever. Look at how HUGE geek
and science-related things has become in social media. Look at the following
astronauts are getting. Youtube channels and facebook groups about science.

Yes people find them quirky, just as the characters of FRIENDS were quirky.
People still love them and even identify with specific things they do or
issues they face.

My guess is people who find TBBT insulting are people who project self
loathing. Clue #1: Feeling ANGER towards a TV show.

~~~
Cthulhu_
I guess part of "geek culture" is having been the uncool guy in school, having
been pointed at and laughed at, getting bullied, being an outsider,
andsoforth.

A comedy show where outsiders are being pointed and laughed at will often
bring those experiences back, and really isn't helping.

~~~
danielweber
I wonder if there's an age breakdown for people who hate/like the show. I'm
well past the age where early high school is something I flash back to, so I'm
perfectly OK with the show.

But if I were younger I could see myself hating it. I can say that the
"Revenge Of The Nerds" movies did me no favors at that stage of my life.

------
Renaud
I discovered TBBT through a friend who nicknamed me 'Sheldon' due to my
tendency to be somewhat socially awkward, geeky, and sharing some of Sheldon's
OCDs.

I fell in love with the show, and I don't really agree with the conclusions of
the article.

I don't feel like the writers are making fun of me, and I certainly don't feel
that Penny is the 'normal' and cool character in the show. She's an
underachiever, has a borderline drinking problem and poor choice in boyfriends
before she met Leonard.

Yes, there is a self-deprecating component to all this. The characters are
caricatures of various nerdy personalities, but I find them lovable, and I can
relate to some of what happens to them.

I can laugh at myself, at my fondness for Star Trek, at my awkwardness in
public, at my OCDs, at my love for everything technical and my interest in
sciences. Being able to laugh at yourself is a strength, not a weakness.

What if others are watching the show and believe that it is to be taken at
face value? Why should I care?

These nerds are successful scientists who work on the Mars Rover program, fly
into space and go on adventures to the North Pole while Penny -the supposedly
normal and cool character- is waiting tables in a dead-end job, shows no real
passion for anything apart from shoes and it going nowhere.

Anyway, it's just a show. Some like it, some hate it. I personally don't think
it fuels such a negative view of what nerds are. Maybe it's a caricature that
some may take at face value but I'm not worried about that, the joke's on them
really and they don't even know it.

------
mcphage
I've read theories like this before, and I gotta say, I don't agree with them.
A big part of his argument hinges on "The humour in The Big Bang theory relies
on the audience siding with and relating to Penny, the character coded as
“normal” in comparison to the main four guys."... and maybe we're watching
different shows, but the one I watch has more humor from the guys' standpoint
(and often at Penny's expense). Yes, there is some humor from her standpoint,
for people that identify more with her—but there should be, she's a member of
the cast, and there are people who relate to her. But there's far more humor
for people who relate to the geek characters (since there's more of them).

~~~
falcolas
There's also significantly more deprecating humor aimed at the geeks, which
for me offsets any humor I derive from relating to them.

Plus, the geeks really come across to me as too overly stereotypical to be
relatable.

~~~
lostcolony
And even that would be relatable if it was self-deprecating. The article is
right, the audience is positioned as an outsider; "It's funny because he
mentioned that thing which is nerdy" rather than any realization of the
character that Penny might find that reference impossible to relate to. You're
clearly intended to identify with Penny.

~~~
Dewie
I guess just making it sound nerdy/technical should be enough for most of the
audience to think it's nerdy as hell and thereby funny, even if it is
nonsense? Like "I'll make a GUI interface in Visual Basic to track their IP".
:) I haven't watched the show myself.

~~~
falcolas
That might help. Instead, it's something like "... I would do this like Spock
<pause for laughtrack>"

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JonnieCache
I thought the problem with the big bang theory was it's inability to explain
the low entropy starting condition?

EDIT: btw if you want a comedy show that's rooted firmly in the geek world,
dig up the TV version of the dilbert cartoons. superb.

~~~
raverbashing
I was going to upvote you but it's "its" instead of "it's"

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pmelendez
> "We aren’t laughing with Leonard, Sheldon, Raj and Howard. We’re laughing at
> them"

Well, here is my confession... I do like the show, and I guess it is a guilty
pleasure.

I like it because I feel identified by the characters (my wife even call me
Sheldon when I am being pedantic about something). But the author is right,
when I watch the show I laugh at them and by transitivity I laugh at myself,
which I have learnt is the best way to keep a good humor.

~~~
davidw
Sure, you laugh 'at' them, but they're still portrayed as good people who are
worth hanging out with, as Penny finds out with time over the first few
seasons.

------
tlarkworthy
Big Bang Theory is a depiction of what idiots think intelligent people are
like. Those characters do not exist in real life.

IMHO UK's IT crowd is a much better and funnier depiction of geeks (albeit
Moss is a bit exaggerated too).

~~~
tzs
> Big Bang Theory is a depiction of what idiots think intelligent people are
> like. Those characters do not exist in real life.

I've known people in real life similar to all the main characters of BBT. The
BBT characters are more concentrated, so I'd have to use maybe 7 or 8 people
to span the characteristics of Sheldon, Leonard, Howard, and Raj, but I don't
think that invalidates the point.

In fact, I knew such people at Caltech, which is where BBT is set.

As a Caltech graduate, I see no problem with their portrayal of Caltech
people. It is the portrayal of the facilities that bugs me. They have
geologists in the same building as theoretical physicists!

The "likes BBT" (x axis) vs "viewer intelligence" (y axis) curve seems to be,
as far as I can see, convex.

~~~
tzs
Oops. Axislexia.

~~~
tptacek
Wait, now I have absolutely no idea what you think the correlation is between
BBT appreciation and intelligence.

~~~
tzs
The intent was to say that ordinary people and extremely smart people seem to
like BBT [1], with the dislike coming from those in between. Among BBT fans
are George Smoot, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Stephen Hawking--they aren't doing
speaking cameos on it to boost their resume for a career switch to acting. :-)

I probably should have just went with the original quip I had, which was
"People you consider idiots like it, and people who consider you an idiot like
it", but that seemed a little insulting so I dropped it.

[1] or at least ordinary people and extremely smart people who do not like it
do not seem to complain about the show online.

~~~
tlarkworthy
Sorry, your attempt at condescending me does not work. I am a smart person
with a PhD in Artificial Intelligence from University of Edinburgh's School of
Informatics.

While I am no Hawkins, I do have first hand of experience of these levels of
genius. I have met three nobel prize winners. I have never met anyone as
dysfunctional as Sheldon. From what I have read, even Erdos had a sense of
humour.

------
marknutter
I think Apatow's Freaks and Geeks was the best representation of what it's
like to be a nerd/geek/freak/outsider.

~~~
blakesterz
Somewhere in the DVD commentary he calls out a scene as what killed the show
because it was just so realistic no one liked it. Everyone was making fun of a
kid and he fell and broke his arm or something. They said after that scene
aired the ratings dropped off and never recovered. So yeah, best
representation, but it would seem people don't like things to be "real" they'd
rather watch something like Big Bang and it not being so realistic.

------
cstuder
Note that this is about the tv series, not the physical theory.

~~~
mnw21cam
Please could someone change the title. I was disappointed, and wouldn't have
clicked through if it had been clear that the article was about a TV show.

~~~
marknutter
It would just get changed back. The powers that be at HN usually like to make
sure the original title is preserved.

------
skriticos2
It's a damn TV show, not a documentary. If you don't put your brain into low
power mode and stop pondering about stuff, you won't enjoy it. It's a sequence
of light jokes and a very loose story-line.

Another example that comes to mind: I like SciFi. If I'd analyse every movie
for scientific credibility, I'd have a horrible time and would hate the genre.
Just put your brain in error correction mode and switch on your creativity and
you'll have a great time.

And if you don't like it, watch documentaries.

------
SifJar
As someone who considers themself (and many of their friends) a nerd, I have
to say I thoroughly enjoy the show. I study physics, I love Sci fi, I read
comic books etc. I don't feel genuinely insulted by the show. Yes jokes are
made at nerds' expense. But if you can't laugh at yourself and your own
"culture", there's something wrong.

If you don't like the show, that's fine. Don't watch it. But don't try and
turn me against it just because you don't like it.

------
chippy
IT Crowd - Non-nerd characters are the actual clowns.

The Big Bang Theory - Nerds are the clown characters.

In IT Crowd, the nerds are put into hilarious situations because of an insane
normal world. In Big Bang Theory, the nerds are put into hilarious situations
because they are insane.

~~~
AndrewDucker
If you don't think that Moss and Roy are both also clowns then you haven't
been paying much attention.

~~~
chippy
Of course they also are. This thought has to be seen in the context of the
subject of the thread - The Big Bang Theory, and the actual article which also
deals with the outsider (non-nerd), the audience and the nerds.

In other words, Penny or the people at the university on the whole are not
clowns, rather the nerds are the primary clown characters. Jennifer, her
boyfriends, Mr. Renham or most other non-nerd characters in the IT Crowd are
the primary clown characters. We (the general audience) sympathise with the
nerds more in the IT Crowd in the same way that we sympathise more with the
non-nerds.

------
billyjobob
I watched an episode of this show once. It wasn't very funny. I don't think
it's part of some grand conspiracy to belittle nerds. It's just a crappy show
that anyone with an ounce of sense won't waste more than 20 minutes of their
life on.

~~~
SifJar
Just because you don't enjoy something, doesn't mean you should belittle those
that do. I like to think I have plenty of sense, and I quite like the show.
Just because you didn't enjoy that particular episode, doesn't mean you
wouldn't find another hilarious.

------
corobo
The problem with it is that you're watching it as if it's a show for nerds
when it's a show about nerds as seen by people who are not nerds. You're not
the target market for this show.

As a side note on your page layout - My screen is massive. Please don't be
afraid to use the space available!

------
sharemywin
A doubt most people idenity with to hot, farm girl in big city, little slutty,
stuck working at cheese cake factory because acting isn't going so well
stereotypes. Comedy is funny because they take quirks people see in themselves
and others and magnify them. The jocks aren't cool and relatable in TBBT
either.

------
holograham
Disagree with this authors sentiment. I too am a nerd and relate to the
caricatures of nerds on the show.

I collect comic books, was obsessive about magic cards, star wars vs star
trek, dressed in nerd costumes rather than sexy costumes, and have a mild case
of OCD.

I like those things but I still see the humor in pointing out their absurdity
on some levels.

Many shows do this -- even the mainstream comedies. They make fun of binge
drinking, hookup culture, being stupid, etc.

Penny is made fun of constantly for her poor life choices, lack of degree,
poor job, loser bfs, etc. AND the audience laughs at her constantly for it.
Quite frankly I am proud that I relate with Sheldon more than Penny.

------
mickdarling
I saw a reference recently that summed up why I dislike The Big Gang Theory:
"Nerd Black Face." It is treating the nerds and geeks on the show as unself-
aware fools for "real" society to laugh at.

~~~
theorique
Agreed. It is literally a minstrel show where comical, exaggerated "nerds"
parade their comical, exaggerated neuroses and yet it is somehow one of the
most popular shows in the nation.

No other social group or category would stand for this - it's basically
blatant racism, but because it's not applied to a specific racial group but
instead a social category, it's "funny" rather than "bigoted" or "mocking".

Can you imagine the outcry if there were such a show about blacks or Chinese
people? The NAACP or Chinese community groups would sue the network so fast
that their heads would spin!

------
RougeFemme
Interesting perspective that I had never thought of. . .I totally get it. .
.but I still enjoy the show, only now I may feel guilty about it. Maybe I was
so nerdy/naive I never perceived that the audience could be laughing more _at_
them than _with_ them. And honestly, I've been wishing we could see less of
Penny. I get why Leonard is _supposed_ to pine after Penny, but I keep
thinking "get over her and move on to someone better". . .And I'm speaking as
a female nerd.

------
jaxomlotus
That entire (mostly valid) point could have been made in 1 paragraph.

~~~
stoolpigeon
Then you wouldn't have been able to spend as much time reading text against
that background.

------
Jare
Every mass-media depiction of an activity or group will be simultaneously
exaggerated and incomplete. In particular, TV comedies will emphasize anything
that can make you laugh. They'll portray as idiots and make fun of: nerds,
geeks, musicians, politicians, assistants, policemen, scientists, managers,
presidents, models, spies, secretaries, firemen, astronauts, unemployed,
lawyers, extraterrestrials, students, depressed, celebrities, immigrants,
writers, and even the dead ones if need be.

------
viraptor
I'm not sure which side I'm on really. There are both good jokes there and
some really mean episodes that are laughing about really nasty behaviour.

But to see how depressing some of the scenes actually are, search for "big
bang theory without laugh track" on youtube. Once you listen to it like to a
real situation... it's just terrible.

------
Fuxy
I knew I hated that show for some reason I just could never put it into words
like he did.

To be honest i never even got into it it a lot of people wanted me to watch it
but after a few episodes it was clear this is not something worth my time.

I couldn't help it cringe when the main characters put themselves in a
socially awkward position unlike regular geeks I values social interaction as
much as technology so my social skills are quite high for a geek.

Plus i didn't find any of the jokes in the show funny frankly i found them
quite insulting to geek culture.

There's no one you can identify with the guys are just too awkward and the
girl seems more like an extra that happens to be sexy and the guys are
drooling on her.

I know this is supposed to be a exaggeration of the typical geek but it just
doesn't work for me.

------
lostcolony
I quite like this writeup. I've seen a few episodes of The Big Bang Theory,
and could never quite put my finger on why I didn't enjoy it, when I knew
people who claimed it was the cleverest thing on TV and absolutely hilarious.

Clearly, though, I need to check out Community.

~~~
mattgreenrocks
'Cheap' is the best adjective that describes TBBT. The jokes, the characters,
the situations, all of it feels cheap. And that is because it is less about
the character of the four guys and more about this one specific aspect of
them: being nerdy. And it gets old really fast.

Community has more interesting characters. They're still neurotic (the old guy
gets a bit tiring), but they're much easier to care about.

------
poopsintub
He doesn't produce it, but "Two Broke Girls" being picked up from a pilot,
nevertheless going into its third season, pretty much solidifies the point
about Lorrie thinking.

------
Tycho
I can't quite put my finger on why I find this article annoying.

------
j2kun
I find black on brown extremely hard to read.

------
dsschnau
It's TV, what did you expect?

------
Dewie
I had the impression that the whole embracing of being a geek/nerd was self-
deprecating. But it seems that some people are being so ironic these days that
it's hard to see where the meta-irony ends and the genuine feelings start.

It seems that people who aren't nerds respect (that is, dis-respects) nerds
just as much, just that now they can do it with more general social approval,
and the nerds can't really talk back if these are relatively small slights
because of all the seeming self-deprecation from nerds themselves; you don't
want to be seen as humour-less and overly sensitive. Journalists can refer to
working adults as _nerds_ because, you know, self-irony and all that. Never
mind the subtle put-downs; don't be sensitive.

I think that people who have nerdy interests while also being a well-rounded
person (a trait nerds aren't known for) are the biggest winners in this case.
They already have social status, and then get even more respect for having
interests that are associated with intelligence. Plus, since they already
"have a life" in the mainstream sense, you know that they are being nerdy out
of genuine interest and not because they were socially awkward and had to
"find comfort" or whatever in some nerdy pursuit.

I don't really consider myself a nerd, nor really a "normal" person. I think I
have a lot of the negative traits of a nerd, while lacking some crucial
traits/skill of a "normal" person. I don't really fit in anywhere in this
dichotomy.

------
dgoujard
Very interesting points of view. I share the analyse.

------
dlsym
_sigh_ not the shitty TVshow again.

