
Twenty-one year old with no pre-existing conditions dies from Coronavirus - rwol
https://www.yorkshirecoastradio.com/news/national/3069302/coronavirus-briton-21-with-no-existing-health-conditions-dies-after-contracting-covid-19/
======
sonicggg
It seems that anecdotal evidence of young people dying of COVID-19 is the
trend of the moment. Not sure if it's just cheap clickbait or the goal is to
make younger generations to actually care about social distancing.

The deal is that we are dealing with the power of large numbers. You can
cherry-pick whatever case you want to fit your narrative. It does not mean its
relevant information.

~~~
spyspy
Anecdotally, my parents keep bringing up this narrative every time we talk on
the phone. I've reminded them that while me and my fiance dutifully haven't
left the house since last Sunday they've happily gone to the grocery store
multiple times, attended a funeral, and had wine at their neighbor's house.
They also refused to stop babysitting my niece and nephew until I called my
brother and convinced him to stop dropping them off. But no, young people are
the reckless ones.

~~~
corpMaverick
As a parent of a young man. I understand why your parents have these fears.
They know what they are doing, but they don´t know what you are doing other
than what you tell them. Even if they trust you, this is a deeper fear. You
could start lecturing your parents about how dangerous this is, so they are
convinced that you are taking it seriously.

~~~
beat
As the parent of adult children currently living at home... one of ours keeps
going out to be with friends. I understand she needs to get out of the house
sometimes, but it's unnerving, knowing the points of contact (she often goes
to her boyfriend's house, with his five currently-unemployed roommates).

Then again, she works in a children's health clinic. I know what vector is
probably going to bring COVID into our house.

~~~
dchichkov
It'd be interesting to understand what evolutionary pressures the combined
behaviors of population have on COVID-19.

Distancing arguably should create evolutionary pressure towards a weaker,
asymptomatic, more contagious virus. And reckless behavior in the segments of
population unaffected by the virus may put evolutionary pressure to make it a
stronger, but not as contagious virus.

(an uninformed opinion of a software engineer / researcher)...

~~~
me_me_me
> Distancing arguably should create evolutionary pressure towards a weaker,
> asymptomatic, more contagious virus

This doesn't make sense to me. Distancing reduces number of cases and chances
to spread infections, reducing chances for successful mutations.

It seems that instead of having multiple strains you will end up with most
resilient strain in the end. But that's probably better as you have to fight a
single strain then.

------
evbpcapfxy
Some quick googling also shows that young people without pre-existing
conditions can die from the regular flu.

[https://time.com/5099042/influenza-deaths-
flu/](https://time.com/5099042/influenza-deaths-flu/)

~~~
jamesrcole
But I don’t think people have been hammered with the view that flu can only
kill older people. Whereas they have been for covid-19.

~~~
teekert
We have a sort of famous person in the Netherlands of 39y/o, he vlogged from
his bed on a breather about his past 8 days of almost dying. That did a lot
for awareness in my country I feel.

------
T-A
Bruce Aylward, senior adviser to the WHO's Director General, in [1]:

One of the things that terrifies me now is, as this is spread in the west is,
there’s this sense of invulnerability among millennials. And absolutely not.
Ten percent of the people who are in [intensive care units] in Italy are in
their 20s, 30s or 40s. These are young, healthy people with no co-morbidities,
no other diseases. We don’t understand why some young healthy people progress
to severe disease and even die and others don’t. We don’t have clear
predictors.

[1] [https://time.com/5805368/will-coronavirus-go-away-world-
heal...](https://time.com/5805368/will-coronavirus-go-away-world-health-
organization/)

~~~
casefields
On what planet is someone in their late 30s-40s considered young? 40s is prime
midlife crisis age for crying out loud. Lumping them in is a clear attempt to
push a narrative.

------
throwanem
It's easy to find an article like this very frightening, if you're young and
healthy and have been thinking there's thus no chance you'll die of COVID-19
if (more likely when, tbh) you get it. I already have it, so I totally
understand that.

But this is the first time we know of that anyone young and healthy has died
of the disease, and we're over a hundred thousand confirmed cases in. Even
assuming the current understanding is accurate, and this person didn't have
some undiagnosed comorbidity, that's on the order of a .001% chance of dying.

For a pandemic disease, those are very good odds.

Yes, it's frightening, and in frightening times. But it's important to keep a
sense of perspective. After all, stressing out over this can only weaken your
defenses.

~~~
jamesrcole
> _this is the first time we know of that anyone young and healthy has died of
> the disease_

It may be the first one that’s been in the news here, but what about in China?
I’m wondering if there have been any cases there, that haven't been officially
reported in the news.

The whistleblower doctor who died was only 34. I don't know if he had any
prexisting conditions. [https://nypost.com/2020/02/09/coronavirus-doctor-li-
wenliang...](https://nypost.com/2020/02/09/coronavirus-doctor-li-wenliangs-
mother-demands-answers-after-his-death/)

~~~
throwanem
Overwork at the very minimum, I'd imagine.

We can wonder all day about any number of things. Does it help, though? Does
it make you less likely to contract COVID-19, or more likely to have a mild
case if you do get it?

Your odds of that are pretty good, by the way; based on what apparently
reputable information I've found, assuming no risk factors like advanced age
or comorbidity, it's about 85% likely you have an uncomplicated disease
course, with no serious symptoms and requiring no medical support to resolve.

What beneficial influence on those already good chances do you expect to see
by worrying yourself halfway into a panic, about something over which you have
no control in any case?

~~~
jamesrcole
You don't mention anything about potential (permanent) lung or organ damage.
That seems to happen though I don't know if there's a clear picture yet of how
frequently it occurs.

> _What beneficial influence on those already good chances do you expect to
> see by worrying yourself halfway into a panic, about something over which
> you have no control in any case?_

I am amazed by how often people will accuse others of being panicked or
hysterical in relation to covid-19 when they've demonstrated no such traits.

Pretty much everyone who took it seriously earlier on, got told they were
panicking or being hysterical, when it was just that they were informed of
what was coming and took it seriously. Taking something seriously does not
equal being panicked.

Where is the panic in this thread you are referring to?

------
derision
Her aunt is the one claiming she had no pre-existing conditions. I'd like to
see a statement from a medical professional and an autopsy

~~~
tallanvor
Yeah. No known preexisting conditions is very different from no preexisting
conditions. That being said, it's certainly possible that she was just unlucky
and the virus hit her harder than normal for people her age, or she caught
some other bug at the same time.

~~~
8fingerlouie
She could have a specific mutation in her DNA that protects against other
things, that somehow makes COVID-19 worse.

Like the CCR5-Delta32 mutation makes 10% of Europeans resistant to HIV
([https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050325234239.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050325234239.htm)).

There are other mutations that appears to combat virus more effectively, but
who's to say that there are not mutations that are beneficial for some
disease, but catastrophic for others ?

------
bionhoward
Biased as an immunologist, but this sounds like HLA type differences. The
cells chop the virus proteins and stick them out using MHC1 to notify the
immune system. This response is partly determined by genetics (HLA TYPE) and
if we cluster outcomes vs HLA types we could learn a model to predict who’s
gonna have worse outcomes. Could help with triage if it were a decision tree
model

~~~
nullc
Somewhat distantly related, have you seen
[https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fjzjpc/relationshi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fjzjpc/relationship_between_the_abo_blood_group_and_the/flct9wh/?context=3)
? (also see the old sars paper my comment cites and the surrounding thread)

------
jhayward
I'm puzzled by the intense focus on whether someone who dies had a pre-
existing condition. It's like people want to convict the person for their own
death, make it look like they were irresponsible, as a denial mechanism.

By blaming the person for succumbing to the virus they can fall in to the US-
centric mindset of blaming people for their own disfortune, poverty, illness,
accident, lack of whiteness, etc.

It's really stupid, unless you are a physician treating cases, to focus this
way. It keeps us from dealing with the reality of the pandemic.

Edit: for those objecting to my observation, see the responses linked below,
which were the only ones present when I replied. I've seen this pattern often
enough over the last few days to realize that it's not simply people seeking
information about the nature of the disease, it is something else, more
reactionary and emotional.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684440](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684440)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684570](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684570)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684817](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684817)

~~~
Afton
I don't think that's it at all. It's the 'normal' person being concerned
whether _they_ are at risk.

While lots of people 'know old people' or with pre-existing conditions, many
people have youngish parent with already passed grandparents, who have trouble
understanding why this is a fuss _for them_ , since they imagine that it'll
just be a cold (for them). Cases like this one are 'scary' because it shows
that they might still be at risk. Which, in some sense, is good if it makes
'normal people' scared enough to actually stay home/self-quarantine.

I _really_ don't think this has anything to do with the "US-centric mindset of
blaming people for their own [snipped]".

~~~
venantius
I think they're related; healthy people often (implicitly) assume they are
healthy because they have done nothing wrong to _deserve being ill_. This then
causes them to act with unexamined cruelty towards people who are ill.

------
kingkawn
This type of Virus can cause respiratory failure by infecting the central
nervous system even without infecting the lungs significantly. Latest
interesting theory I’ve seen is that cases like this young woman (if truly
otherwise healthy) could be because of this CNS disruption.

[https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/15/7264](https://jvi.asm.org/content/82/15/7264)

------
chrisseaton
> this so-called virus

It _is_ a virus, isn't it?

~~~
swsieber
The pedant in me says technically the name of the virus "SARS-CoV-2" but lots
of people are referring to the virus by the disease name of "COVID-19". Maybe
that's why?

The pragmatic side of me says "Yeah, what the heck. It's clearly known"

Edit: Rereading it, the quote is directed at people who are skeptical of it's
existence. So it makes sense in context.

~~~
chrisseaton
Ah it's like HIV and AIDS, isn't it? SARS-CoV-2 causes COVID-19, and COVID-19
is not the virus but the disease. She's right.

~~~
GuiA
Easy mnemonic: COVID-19 stands for COrona VIrus Disease 2019.

~~~
marcosdumay
Yes, it's very easy to remember that the disease is named by the virus, and
the virus is named by the disease :)

I still wonder who got that brilliant idea.

------
dogma1138
Without a proper PM it’s hard to know, when a 20 something footballer died in
Italy it was initially without pre-existing conditions then some results came
back and they found he had a undiagnosed leukemia.

However even without pre-existing conditions there is still a non-zero chance
of complications that could result in a fatality regardless of how low the
chances are.

This both means that people shouldn’t be careless but it also doesn’t mean
that the news should abuse this to spread irrational fear.

Comments like this:

> "Clinicians who care for adults should be aware that COVID-19 can result in
> severe disease among persons of all ages," said the report, published on 18
> March.

Serve little to no clinical value, clinicians understand very well that there
is always a chance; however it is quite clear that currently the likelihood of
younger patients to die is still extremely slim compared to the current high
risk groups which includes pretty much anyone over 60.

The number of deaths in the 18-24 group specifically is still a rounding
error.

------
cavisne
The source for no pre existing conditions is her aunt, this is not ideal and
obviously no one can contradict her without violating privacy.

------
devy
There was a 18-year-old died in L.A. appeared to be youngest death due to
COVID-19 in the U.S. so far.

[https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/24/los-angeles-health-
officials...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/24/los-angeles-health-officials-
say-a-child-under-18-has-died-from-the-coronavirus.html)

------
davesque
Seems relevant (from 2017): [https://people.com/health/20-year-old-mother-
dies-after-flu-...](https://people.com/health/20-year-old-mother-dies-after-
flu-diagnosis/)

------
ekvilibrist
Smoking? Vaping? From what I've heard about other cases its highly unlikely
but not impossible to die from Covid-19 if otherwise young and healthy...

~~~
sjg007
Occam's razor: what you've heard is simply incorrect.

~~~
dreary_dugong
I'd argue that Occam's razor would state that this article is inaccurate
rather than the plethora of sources about age and pre-existing conditions.

~~~
klyrs
I'd argue that this is a single datapoint out of nearly 20k deaths. Are the
odds of dying young with zero pre-existing conditions on the order of 1:20k,
or _exactly zero_? Is death from covid _rare_ or _impossible_?

~~~
derision
Most of what I've seen so far seems to suggest it works more like AIDs, where
it weakens something (in this case, epithelial cells in the lungs) which
allows other opportunistic issues to arise (bacterial pneumonia for example).
So rather than dying "from the virus", you die from another underlying issue.
Similar to how AIDs doesn't kill you, it just makes it easier for everything
else to kill you

~~~
klyrs
We have a choice here: strongly hold onto generalizations derived from early
analysis, or keep an open mind about new developments in the rapidly growing
data. By all means folks should scrutinize these developments as they arrived,
but we should keep Dunning-Kreuger in mind: there's a whole lot we don't know
about this virus.

~~~
sjg007
Yep and everyone underestimates the systemic risk.

------
superkuh
This is a very rare (in terms of percent) outlier for now. But as the first
big wave comes and health care systems are overloaded this will become normal.
Even as young people's lives are saved by triaging and letting old people die.
Hospitalization is required in almost 30% of cases of 20-54 year olds and 5%
of that is critical.

If it takes abusing the properties of huge numbers to get younger people to
wake up then do it. Because pretty soon this isn't going to be rare.

------
doitLP
No known pre-existing conditions != no pre-existing conditions. Besides in a
large enough dataset this isn't surprising.

~~~
nicky0
But how many people know they have no pre-existing conditions? Most of us are
in the no known conditions camp.

------
greendestiny_re
Anecdotal data reliable? One case says "yes!"

------
sunseb
It seems the Spanish flu first targeted old people, and almost disappeared
during summer, before returning during fall and targeting young people. I hope
it won't be like that this time.

------
werber
I hope these kinds of articles go viral. I know too many people about that age
that aren't isolating and distancing. I don't care that it's sensational if it
saves some lives

------
throw1234651234
There is also that whole getting no food, no sleep, and otherwise compromising
your immune system thing.

~~~
rob74
On the other hand, there is evidence that some of the patients die due to an
excessive response of the immune systen:
[https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/21176783/coronavirus-
covid-19-...](https://www.vox.com/2020/3/12/21176783/coronavirus-
covid-19-deaths-china-treatment-cytokine-storm-syndrome)

