
Raspberry Pi releases an OS to breathe new life into old PCs - praveshjain
https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/22/raspberry-pi-releases-an-os-to-breathe-new-life-into-old-pcs/
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nathan_f77
This will be an interesting one to watch. There's a huge number of tiny Linux
distros, but most of them couldn't compete with something released by the
Raspberry Pi foundation.

I think their biggest competitor is lubuntu. It's just a stripped down Ubuntu
with the LXDE desktop. PIXEL also uses LXDE, and it looks like they've made a
few design tweaks to the file manager. They both have Chromium as the default
browser. Right now I think lubuntu supports way more machines.

I'm wondering why they didn't just use lubuntu, or just fork it and make a few
changes. I've been using lubuntu on a small media PC, and I've been very happy
with it.

~~~
Narishma
> I'm wondering why they didn't just use lubuntu

Ubuntu is compiled for ARMv7, so it doesn't run on the RPi 1 and 0.

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em3rgent0rdr
Lubuntu is worth mentioning as something that has been breathing life into old
PCs while being noobie-friendly and with the access to current ubuntu software
repos.

~~~
Animats
The next step above Lubuntu is Xubuntu. If it will fit, use it. I buy old ASUS
subnotebooks on eBay for about $40 and put Xubuntu on them when I need a
little machine for something.

Drivers can be a problem. However, [UXL]buntu finally fixed the years-old bug
where the cursor goes away on devices using built-in Intel graphics. (You
could make the cursor come back with CTL-ALT-F1, CTL-ALT-F7, which switches
the display to text mode and back.) That prevented anyone not heavily into
Linux from using the thing.

~~~
jlgaddis
It's not just for old machines either!

I've used XFCE for years and prefer it, even on my well-equipped machines
(4-core laptop w/ 32 GB RAM and a new 16-core workstation w/ 128 GB RAM).

It looks "nice enough" and is still flexible enough that I can customize it
exactly how I want. I really liked Gnome back in the "good ol' days" (2.x) but
I can't stand to use it anymore.

~~~
tbronchain
You made me curious.. 128GB RAM on Xubuntu! Why? Which usage would require so
much memory? Found 16cores quite a lot as well. Really wondering what you do?

~~~
seabrookmx
Not the person you're replying to, but we have lots of 64gb workstations at
work for database and BI work, such a testing large queries in Apache Drill.
With the right query, you can use up the 64gb quite quickly. Our servers run
384gb and have 16C/32T.

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calebsurfs
I'm surprised they ship with chromium, I have had a much better experience
with firefox than Chrome on my low end laptop.

Does chromium have a smaller memory footprint than Chrome?

~~~
Klathmon
Chrome and chromium should have about the same footprint.

But IIRC chrom(ium|e) modifies it's memory usage quite a lot depending on the
hardware it's running on.

If it's a low spec machine, it will disable many of the memory-hungry features
and speed improvements.

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crispytx
Puppy Linux has already been breathing new new life into old PCs. I have an
IBM ThinkPad just like the one featured in the article running Puppy Linux.

~~~
JayHost
Headlines like these are always mind bogglin.

I always wished the Puppy project would allow better browsing on the raspberry
pi.

I really dislike the new Raspberry pi toolbar / desktop

~~~
agumonkey
It's sad that they're using the RPI brand to distort reality. Even though in a
way the RPI project was already twisting things (GPIO + python isn't computing
education but I'm nitpicking).

~~~
seanp2k2
Yeah, it'd be cool if they also taught Linux fundamentals, the way the
internet works, networking in general, etc.

~~~
Nexxxeh
I think that may be looking at it in a different way that doesn't necessarily
reflect the impact of all this, in the UK at least.

The way many of my generation was taught IT was Office (with maybe some
Macros), a largely useless high-level overview of networking, an out-of-date
comparison of "client-server", "mainframe" and "peer-to-peer" computing etc.

It was dry. Unless you already had an interest in the field, it was boring.

It taught you enough about Microsoft Office to do your other school work, it
taught you enough about the web and email to get by, and it taught out-dated
terminology that you would unlearn in the real world.

It didn't teach troubleshooting of any kind. It wasn't engaging.

Many of us were already ahead of the teachers. If the teacher had a problem,
it was usually a student that could give the answer. (I only had one IT
teacher who wasn't below the level of a teenager with an active interest in
IT.)

But the worst thing was that it didn't get people interested and didn't teach
the mindsets required. The underlying logic. The basics of troubleshooting.
Binary exclusion. Shit, how to deal with a paper jam!

Nowadays everyone has a smartphone, can follow a YouTube tutorial, can Google
stuff, before they're in their teens.

The Pi and the teaching around it gets kids exposed to the lower levels of
hardware (or at least a simplified version of). It's interesting and engaging.

There's a far bigger pay-off than "my spreadsheet looks nice". A blinking
light gives a greater sense of accomplishment than a ".ppt" file.

The Pi gives the tools and motivation to actually learn the stuff you are
talking about. Hook 'em with the fun stuff while still being useful.

Most kids won't need to know "ls" or "mount". They're never going to
"modprobe" anything.

They are already taught the very high-level basics of the Internet and
networking. But they're never going to use variable length subnet masks.

But many more kids will hopefully be interested enough to pursue careers in
IT. And those who don't will at least have an appreciation for it, and will
have been taught skills and a mindset invaluable in the increasingly digitally
connected world in which we live.

~~~
agumonkey
Good point. Anything is better than the office driven computer classes. The PI
does indeed provide strong educational benefits to improve insights at the
electronic level.

My only complaint, and weighted by the fact that the rpi team did deliver on
most feature, quality and cost while so many ventures failed to even finish
prototypes, is that the SoC is a monster. So no kid will ever use it to go
further than python and gpio. A stupid forth CPU would be as good for
electronics, but also teach some mathematical programming ideas (recursion,
trees), basically the whole computing fundamentals.

Maybe my idea would have failed.

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olegkikin
SSDs are what breathe new life into old PCs. And they are quite cheap. My
wife's laptop turned from extremely annoying to decent, almost pleasant to
use.

~~~
keithpeter
OA uses a Thinkpad X40 as the target machine. A 1.8 inch Hitachi drive with
PATA interface and with 256 or 512Mb of RAM soldered to board with a socket
for one further RAM stick. This is a 12 year old design. Probably best used
with what it has rather than spending any money upgrading. A good test target
for a 'light' OS.

A Thinkpad X60 or later (dual core) with 2Gb RAM can run a 'full fat' Linux
(e.g. Ubuntu or CentOS/Fedora) OK if not slick in my experience (and yes I did
once compile a kernel from source on an X61s - took a few hours). An SSD makes
a difference in that kind of machine.

~~~
IgorPartola
Your comment about the kenrel taking a few hours to compile made me chuckle. I
went through a Gentoo phase. Nothing like compiling your compiler to compile
your compiler to compile your system. Took days.

And before that I had a machine with 24 MB RAM and a terrible habit of
recompiling the kernel or running BSD with ports.

~~~
digler999
> Took days.

at least yours _finished_. Mine would run just long enough to waste most of my
day, only to error out because one lib wanted python-3.2.785.2.r58 but could
only find python-3.2.1435.214.r3

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webwanderings
With 512 MB, there's hardly an Internet browsing experience here. The biggest
reason why old hardware have gone out of use (relatively quickly) is mostly
due to Internet browsers and their need for more memory. So even if you have a
computer with 2-4 GB laying around, and you attempt to revive it seeing the
news here, it will be soon before you give up the idea altogether.

~~~
onesun
A lot of Chromebooks are still shipping with 2GB of RAM and they do a
perfectly sufficient job of running the "Internet" for most everyday users. I
would argue your lower limit of a reasonable Internet browsing experience is
higher than average because of your technical background. 512MB would be
limiting for sure, but a machine with 2GB of RAM running a Linux desktop,
especially with an SSD if possible, would make a fine everyday laptop.

*edit: Forgot to mention also that ad blocking aids tremendously in making the internet more usable on underpowered machines.

~~~
webwanderings
Well, I'd argue that Internet browsing with 2GB is only suitable for reading
news and email. This then is a common denominator for layman user, who then
wouldn't be using Linux or Pi to begin with. However, this thread is not about
Chromebook (and I agree with you there about Chromebook - my wife uses it for
email/youtube browsing, and it works perfectly fine).

There's a big difference between Chromebook and Linux/Pi/etc world of
hardware/software experience for any person. You can throw a Chromebook to
anyone and you wouldn't have to care about it. But try imagining the idea of
giving Linux type OS to anyone...we know what happens next.

This is one reason why tablets (particularly starting with iPad) became
popular among average crowd.

~~~
StavrosK
What happens next? I've given Ubuntu laptops (2010 laptops) to my dad, mom,
girlfriend and sister, and they're liking it a lot, especially the fact that
they don't have to worry about malware. They're fine with it, it's not like
people are born with an innate understanding of the Windows UI and are
incapable of learning anything else.

~~~
Pxtl
Curious, for the "Ubuntu for Grandma" box, do you use the default partition
plan? Because I find that stock Ubuntu has the infuriating habit of filling
the boot partition with linux kernels and then freaking out unhelpfully during
later updates about the lack of space.

~~~
seanp2k2
Run purge-old-kernels on an @reboot crontab:
[http://news.softpedia.com/news/here-s-how-to-remove-old-
kern...](http://news.softpedia.com/news/here-s-how-to-remove-old-kernels-from-
ubuntu-16-04-lts-and-free-disk-space-505348.shtml)

------
ImAGirl
It's wonderful how the RaspberryPi foundation achieved everything the OLPC
initiative--backed by huge names--tried and failed to do.

~~~
johansch
The details around the commercial relationship between Qualcomm and the
Raspberry Pi foundation is lacking quite a bit in transparency in my mind.

I guess that one of my suspicions here is that some people are making lots of
money on something that is billed and marketed as a selfless charity.

([https://www.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFoundatio...](https://www.raspberrypi.org/files/about/RaspberryPiFoundationReport2015.pdf)
is not nearly detailed enough.)

OLPC is a whole other kind of (a very academic kind of) disaster.

~~~
pjc50
Any specific allegations you'd like to make, despite having got the related
company name wrong, or just nebulous smears?

~~~
johansch
(Yeah; I meant Broadcom, not Qualcomm.)

No specific allegations. I just find it odd that Broadcom apparently still
sell these chips at a low price only (?) to the RasPi foundation - just
because of a personal relationship - someone who worked at Broadcom then
created the RasPi foundation.

What does Broadcom get out of this exclusive relationship? (Is it still
exclusive?) It just smelled odd when I first heard about this way back in 2012
or so when it first launched. Four years later there's lots of volume, but the
same arrangement is still going strong. I find this peculiar.

~~~
dispose13432
Well, what _do_ you think Broadcom gets out of this?

And more importantly, what do I (as a RPi user) lose out?

~~~
ZenoArrow
>"And more importantly, what do I (as a RPi user) lose out?"

If nothing else, you miss out from the benefits of stronger competition. The
Odroid-W is one example of a product that appeared to be cancelled because of
the Raspberry Pi Foundation's close ties with Broadcom:

[https://liliputing.com/2014/08/hardkernels-raspberry-pi-
like...](https://liliputing.com/2014/08/hardkernels-raspberry-pi-like-odroid-
w-discontinued-month-launch.html)

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mysterydip
The more lightweight OSes, the better as far as I'm concerned. I've tried all
the usual suspects over the years and each has pros and cons. I'm sure this
fits the use case for some people out there that others don't.

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pulse7
Clean, simple PIXEL UI is attractive...

~~~
onesun
Just installed it on a Zero I had laying around and I'm surprised by the
general responsiveness of the UI. Of course, now that I played with it for
five minutes I'll turn off the GUI and go direct to CLI like every other Pi I
have. Trying to get weewx up and going on my Zero.

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rocky1138
I installed PIXEL on my Raspberry Pi a few days ago. It looked really good,
and I was impressed how clearly everything comes out over the composite video
output.

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bartvk
I bought an old PC with an Intel Atom 330 @ 1.6 GHz. I equipped it immediately
with a SSD and 4 GB RAM but found out that the second bottleneck is really the
CPU. It's most obvious when using Firefox. Opening a tab takes a second or
two. Even scrolling and clicking a link is a bit exasperating.

What browser does the Raspberry Pi use?

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squarefoot
DietPI (.com) already runs on a lot of embedded platforms and is incredibly
fast (despite its terrible webpage). Sadly there is no x86 image and it seems
it will never be due to excessive hardware fragmentation, but the VM image is
so fast that it makes one wonder how good it would be if run natively. It has
become my choice for very small systems, followed by Armbian for ones with
less constraints.

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dispose13432
Practically, what's the difference between this and Debian+LXDE/fvwm/icewm?

Is it only eye-candy or more substantial advantages?

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SixSigma
Do the power equation before you get your old PC out and include kWh for your
future TCO.

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seabrookmx
Looks great.

Not sure I like the name though. I can see people newer to the ecosystem and
other consumers getting confused between this OS and Google's line of Pixel
devices.

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holtalanm
im looking at
[https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3](https://www.neverware.com/#introtext-3)
to breathe new life into my older laptop. Anyone use it yet? I'm curious if it
is as slim as ChromeOS.

