
U.S. Airport Pat-Downs Are About to Get More Invasive - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-03/u-s-airport-pat-downs-are-about-to-get-more-invasive
======
citruspi
I've opted out every time I've flown in the US since June 2014.

Last Sunday when I flew out from Boston, I opted out as usual and the TSA
officer mentioned that I'd be subject to a new pat down, called the universal
pat down. (I was not subject to this version of the pat-down the day before,
on Saturday).

Honestly, the only difference between that pat-down and all my previous pat-
downs was the way they approached my groin area.

Previously they'd put one hand on each side of my leg and go up until they
made contact with my genitals. Then they'd repeat with the other leg.
Sometimes, but this was rare, they'd push up a bit into the area.

This time, in addition to the normal pat-down procedure, the officer
interlocked his hands and then rubbed my genitals, first vertically, moving
horizontally, and then horizontally, moving vertically.

~~~
cheez
This sounds like a bad handjob...

~~~
citruspi
I enjoy messing with the officers.

Once, an officer mentioned that my jeans were very stiff and I said that I'd
just run the laundry before coming to the airport. I offered to take them off
for him but he quickly declined my offer.

Anyways, I'll occasionally moan softly if I want to fuck with the officer a
bit, as if I might be enjoying my pat-down a bit too much. :)

I'm flying tomorrow and next week, so I think I'm going to be moaning quite a
bit more in the near future.

~~~
cheez
I opt to drive. People don't understand why, but the freedom of not being
molested physically or technologically is important for my mental state.

~~~
citruspi
Totally fair. And I love road trips. If I could do more, I would. However:

1\. I don't own a car.

2\. When I've rented cars, it's cost me ~$100 USD a day. I normally travel for
anywhere from two days to a month at a time. On average, probably a week to a
week and a half. So then this quickly becomes a very, very expensive trip -
~$700 to $1000 USD compared to $300 to $500 USD for a flight. On top of that,
I travel an average of once or twice a month. So car rentals are simply out of
the question for me for most trips.

3\. I live in Boston, but places I've visited in the last year include New
York, Rochester, Vancouver, Lincoln (Nebraska), Montreal, Las Vegas, Mumbai,
Hyderabad, Doha, and Reykjavik. It's simply impractical (if not impossible) to
drive to most of those places from Boston. The three that are manageable are
New York, Rochester, and Montreal (and I did do the Boston to Rochester and
back drive in a rental instead of flying twice).

I've considered purchasing a car explicitly so that I'd be able to travel
without flying a little more, but leasing is impractical due to limits on
miles per year and I'm not ready to outright purchase a car. Either way, a car
would come with additional costs (the cost of the car, maintenance, parking,
etc.) and wouldn't be able to replace even ~15% of my flights, so I think it's
just impractical for me at this point of time.

~~~
ryanhuff
At $100/day, you must be renting premium vehicles. Last week, I rented a
"standard-size" car for a business trip (Saturday pick-up, Wednesday return).
It was about $150 total.

~~~
citruspi
Nope. That's what happens when you're under 25 (or in my case for one of the
trips, under 21) and you need to purchase insurance and all the other fancy
stuff and then also pay fees for convention center surcharges, airport
surcharges, etc.

I've got one receipt[0] on hand for $202.98 for 1 day.

I've also reserved a car for four days (4th to the 7th) for around $130 but
when I picked it up, I ended up paying $450+ after insurance and the toll
device was added on. The device was required because the state I live in
(Massachusetts) has removed toll booths, so you can't pay by coins/cash. I was
required to pay a fixed fee per day for four days for the device, despite the
fact that I actually only drove on two days. The fee includes unlimited
charges, so it might have made sense if I was on the highway everyday, but I
was not.

The frustrating thing is that there's a lot of rental companies where you'll
make the reservation for like $130 and they don't tell you how much insurance
and the other stuff costs because it's different in each location. So you
don't know you're getting fucked until you're signing the paper at the pick up
area and it's too late. If I'd known it was going to be $450+, I'd have just
booked a flight in the first place.

[0]: [http://imgur.com/a/UmkcI](http://imgur.com/a/UmkcI)

Edit:

And then if you're wondering why I didn't just switch to two one-day car
rentals instead of one four-day rental to avoid paying for insurance, the toll
device, etc. for the two days I wasn't driving, it's because then the price
goes up significantly because it's a one way car rental - see[0].

------
koolba
The best solution to all this bullshit is the simplest: Ban precheck and
subject everyone to the same rough groping when they go through security.

Any by everyone, I mean EVERYONE. From able bodied adults, to 75 year old
grandmas, to 3 year old toddlers. Most importantly of all, any government
officials should get the maximum possible delay and most secure of gropings.
That way they don't just hear about this nonsense from their constituents,
they feel it first hand.

Only then will we have representatives that stand up to this crap and call it
out for what it really is.

~~~
nojvek
America is a lobby driven govt. Some corporation will make big bucks on
Something, they'll legally bribe (donations) to pass it through.

------
trendia
Sometimes I think agencies like the TSA have an incentive to be a little
inefficient--they can use the ineffectiveness of their process to justify
requesting additional funding.

"Oh! It looks like a few weapons got through our procedure. We told you our
budget was too small -- our failure is because we don't have enough money to
do it right!"

~~~
revelation
That is a time honored tradition in intelligence agencies all over the world.
Well that and drugs smuggling.

The TSA of course isn't _a little_ inefficient. It is entirely ineffective.

------
shostack
So I think everyone realizes this won't stop anything, which means the real
question is what is the motive?

Is this an attempt to nudge people to Pre-check and the other related services
that are privately owned? The former seems like it would be a great recurring
revenue source for the agency and the latter would be an opportunity to pad
someone's wallet.

Are there any financial conflicts of interest that are known about the various
privately held Pre-check type companies? I believe Pre-check itself is an
official government program.

Follow the money.

~~~
xapata
Pre-check is so cheap, it probably costs more than it brings in revenue.

~~~
tsycho
Pre check is institutionalized racism. Given the criteria for qualification,
it's not surpassing that predominantly white people are able to use it.

~~~
sitkack
I didn't have time to snap the picture, but I was in the pleeb lane standing
behind some very dark skinned Africans and two lanes to the right in the Lexus
lane was a large group of shinning, twinkly blonde Australians. If someone
wanted to fabricate a story about apartheid being instituted in America, this
would have been it.

~~~
nojvek
Some people are more equal than other people.

------
smaili
_TSA officials didn’t immediately address whether the new universal pat-down
protocol will mandate touching of passenger genitals._

Even if the TSA tried, would they really expect the public to allow it? There
has to be some limit to how far they can "search".

~~~
CaptSpify
I don't think so. If you had told anyone 20 years ago that our current system
would be as bad as it is now, people would have never believed you. But here
we are. In the next few years, I only see it getting worse and nobody still
caring

~~~
MegaButts
It's not that people don't care. But what are they going to do? Arguing with
the TSA is an exercise of futility.

------
DIVx0
Anecdote; I just went though Denver TSA earlier this weeek and managed to make
it though the scanners while wearing my belt with a very obvious metallic belt
buckle. Was waved though with no extra screening. Incidentally I was flagged
aside on my way out of Minneapolis because I had a parking reminder ticket in
my back pocket.

These scanners are so inconsistent that they are useless.

------
Neliquat
So their approach is failing, and they don't change, just double down. Typical
security theatre.

------
itchyjunk
I full body scanner[1] they use costs about $180 k[2]. It surprises me that
there is no way to figure out if you're hiding something based on those fairly
expensive device. How many cases are there where the scan has shown nothing
and a quick pat around the crotch has. I understand in some cases, the scan
itself might indicate "area of interest." (An officer showed me an image with
red areas marked and said he would have to pat me there and if I wanted to go
into a room or if it was okay right there.)

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_body_scanner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_body_scanner)

[2] [http://www.digitaltrends.com/home/tsa-will-finally-remove-
co...](http://www.digitaltrends.com/home/tsa-will-finally-remove-
controversial-naked-full-body-scanners/)

~~~
brianwawok
You can opt out of the scan and get a grope instead. That was the deal that
was used to sell the scanners. Personally I have opted out of every single
backscatter. Consider it my tiny form of protest at the corrupt system. Just
think what would happen if even 10% of people opted out.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> You can opt out

At least that's an option. When they first introduced the body scanners in my
local airport (UK) I checked if that was a possibility. If you opt-out, you
don't fly.

------
Johnny555
I think any terrorist that wanted to sneak a weapon or explosive device
onboard would just smuggle it in on one of the thousands of service trucks and
catering vehicles that enter the airport every day.

~~~
cypherpunks01
Shh... you'll ruin the whole show! :)

~~~
ChristianBundy
It's called "security theatre" for a reason!

------
rebootthesystem
There's a component of this that screams for root cause analysis. And the
answer is obvious (at least I think so): Terrorism.

Before 9/11 I could fly with a beefy swiss army knife in my carry-on. Even
tools like screwdrivers. No issues whatsoever. I used to do a lot of flying
with equipment within the US, back and forth to Europe and within Europe
selling and supporting our hardware. For example, I've flown to London with a
carry-on full of tools, soldering irons, FPGA dev board, DSO's, etc. No
problems.

9/11 changed all of that in an instant. Now I have to take off my shoes and
carrying a screwdriver set is unthinkable.

Why? These people changed our way of life. And I am not talking about the US
only. This is a mess.

The Neanderthal part of my brain wants it simple: The roles ought to be
reversed. We should be able to live exactly as we did and they, the bad guys,
ought to be the ones living in fear of what we might do to them.

This requires an approach to dealing with the bad guys that is, well,
Neanderthal, brutal. People in fear of the consequences of their actions think
twice about doing stupid things.

Bush had an opportunity to go after the right people and create that "don't
you ever dare fuck with us" mental shift. Instead, well, I won't go into it.
Here we are.

Not sure how this problem is solved without violence. Maybe I haven't given it
enough thought. We (the world) shouldn't have to live like this. This isn't
just about being inconvenienced, this is about all sorts of abuses and about
every single citizen of the world being treated like criminals with no
justification whatsoever other than "what if".

Does someone have any good non-cave-man ideas?

~~~
arthur_pryor
deal with the systemic inequality and lack of opportunity that make terrorism
an attractive option?

~~~
rebootthesystem
That's a false narrative. Terrorism isn't a natural consequence of inequality.
It's deviant behavior that can only exist in the context of life-long
indoctrination by twisted minds who dedicate their lives to creating even more
twisted minds.

Notice I have not mentioned a religion. Terrorism, in general terms, exists
and has existed in many cultures both with and without a religious foundation.

Terrorism is also about power, the quest for it by people far smarter than the
pawns strapping on suicide vests.

If inequality were a true root cause the poor of the world would be engaging
in terrorist acts in every single country.

Inequality is a natural phenomenon.

I would love to be a better dancer, but I suck at it. I would probably enjoy
to be able to swim faster, but my body doesn't have --and will never have--
the right shape to challenge those who do.

Beyond that, while I've done very well in life, I would love to launch and run
a company at the Apple/Google/Facebook/Tesla/etc. scale but that hasn't
happened for me yet. And it might never happen. Not because of some grandiose
conspiracy to oppress me but because of a range of reasons, including the
possibility that I am simply not good enough to do make that happen.

Utopia does not exist. Equality is utopia.

Inequality is not a root cause for terrorism. Sure, it can be used to convince
weak minds that they've been wronged and as one of many ingredients to
convince them to strap on a suicide vest, but, no, on it's own it isn't the
problem.

------
josscrowcroft
I am fortunate that neither work, family, nor leisure compel me to fly to (or
through) the USA at any point. I intend to keep it that way.

------
rl3
At least we can opt out in the U.S. Well, maybe.[0]

Australia doesn't let you opt out last I checked, and I don't think Canada
does either. Unsure about European countries.

There should really be a site with a list of available opt-out policies
worldwide.

EDIT: Canada appears to allow opt-out.[1]

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/23/tsa-
electronic...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/23/tsa-electronic-
body-scans-opt-out-policy)

[1] [http://www.catsa.gc.ca/full-body-scanner](http://www.catsa.gc.ca/full-
body-scanner)

~~~
citruspi
I'm not entirely sure about Canada. I found some news/posts/comments on the
Interwebs that lead me to believe that you can opt-out, but I'm struggling to
find anything from the last 3-4 years or anything on the CATSA website.

I'm flying out of Vancouver tomorrow morning, so I'll try and report back.

~~~
uiri
Chances are unlikely that you will be subjected to anything beyond a normal
metal detector. I've never seen the full body scanners used as a primary
screening step in Canada.

[https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/infosheets-
menu-7669.html](https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/mediaroom/infosheets-menu-7669.html)

------
__derek__
> The agency doesn’t track how many passengers are subject to pat-down
> searches after they pass through an imaging scanner.

This is the most basic data thay they would collect if any of this were
actually about effectiveness.

------
ceejayoz
Were these weapons getting through the less-invasive pat-downs? Or were they
getting through the non-pat-down flow?

~~~
pedalpete
This question only matters if effectiveness of the procedures is what the TSA
is measured on. However, if that were the case, the entire thing would likely
be thrown out.

I'm not going to pretend to really understand the TSA's game. But if items
were getting through, and those items were doing no harm, isn't the entire
thing worthless if you're adding more security or less?

------
cjensen
Article says there was a report that showed weapons could get past the TSA,
and the TSA is responding by checking the groin more carefully.

Missing from the article: did the report say that the TSA was only failing to
detect weapons smuggled in the groin area?

------
jmspring
Cancelling the policy of allowing non-Precheck into the precheck lanes will
be, personally, beneficial in the short term.

I wish there was actually a comparison of effectiveness of DHS agents vs
private contractors like those at SFO.

~~~
tbihl
Two flights in a row returning to SFO, I had knives (~1 inch blade) found and
had to check my bag, after passing through SFO with no problem. So I guess if
that's your metric of effective, they don't do so well in my anecdotes.

However, I like my security theatre to be fast, and that's definitely
something I've found to be strong at SFO. So I'd say the contractors are very
effective.

~~~
jmspring
Oh, I've had the same. And return trip finding and complaining about wine
opener.

Which is cheaper / effective DHS or private contractors?

------
prashnts
At all the Indian Airports, Malls, Train Stations, and Subway stations, they
use a metal detector wand all over you despite of the Metal Detector gate.
It's kinda weird.

------
Pica_soO
Can i request for the officer to be female and good looking at least? And if
im a evil-doer stupid enough to engage with security symbolism acts, can i
escape this procedure, by pretending to enjoy it too much? Search me, do it-
oh, yeah Baby, that's the spot, dont stop, that could be everything.

Sometimes i wonder why there is no "Border guards for dignity at the working
place" Movement. What a job. Might even save a live or two, by getting that
oncology feeling for tumors.

------
ChefDenominator
I don't know about you guys, but I feel safer already!

------
nickhalfasleep
TSA: "Reach out and Grope Someone"

Just wait until someone intentionally or not puts their quadcopter through a
jet engine on takeoff, I'm sure they'll know us better than our proctologists
for that.

