

Follow-Up to "YC deadline brings out stupid decisions"  - caveman82

This post is a follow-up to the "YC deadline brings out stupid decisions"  (<a href="http://myphdblogged.blogspot.com/2007/10/yc-deadline-brings-out-stupid-decisions.html" rel="nofollow">http://myphdblogged.blogspot.com/2007/10/yc-deadline-brings-...</a>) post where a fellow YCombinator Applicant, who we'll call the "Accuser",accused me of engaging in "unethical" behavior by saying I attempted to "poach" one of his hackers, who we'll call "Hacker X".  Normally I wouldn't dignify such an ungrounded accusation with a lengthy response, however it might add some food for thought to this forum. <p>The Accuser seems to be offended because I solicited one of his partners.  Allow me to provide some context.  I solicited one of his partners by stating that in the event my application was approved and theirs wasn't I would love to have someone like him as a potential partner.  I never pressured Hacker X to drop out of his own Y Combinator application.  I don't even know what his project is about.  Never asked him.  Never even touched on the subject. Again, I only said in the event that his application didn't get approved and my team's application were approved (a lofty assumption, I know) I would love to have him potentially join our team because I felt he was someone that values the Y Comb experience a great deal and he would also be an incredible value add to the team.  Furthermore, I never expected or asked Hacker X to extend me the same option in return; I will be pursuing my project full-time whether or not it is accepted from YC.  (Sounds like a great deal for Hacker X, if you ask me).   <p>As a result of these circumstances, in a post on this forum, the Accuser likens me to the Emperor from Star Wars as he attempts to seduce Anakin Skywalker to the Darkside . <p>To defend against this negative accusation I have listed below my reasons for soliciting "Hacker X":<p>1) As mentioned above I was looking for a capable backup co-founder in the event that my original partner(who was on the fence) dropped out of the Y Combinator process even if our application was accepted.<p>2) Hacker X and I have a mutual friend (not the accuser) who spoke very highly of the "Hacker X" in question.<p>3) From my recent encounter with him at a local bar, Hacker X seemed like an affable guy and more importantly had a strong entrepreneurial spirit that would have been great for any team.  <p>Now I would like to ask the Accuser, if he would, to enlighten me regarding the following topics: <p>-How does the fact that I just met Hacker X make the solicitation unethical?  <p>-Why do I need to ask your permission before I solicit Hacker X?  <p>-Is he your property?
    
-Is there a timelimit as to how long one needs to know another person before one can approach them about a business proposition? <p>-What happened to free will and letting a person make his own decision? <p>-If I happen to know someone else on your 500+ facebook"friends" list that I want to solicit for my venture do I need to ask your permission as well?<p>You know, I could understand the accuser being upset if I were a close friend of his and I had solicited one of his friends without asking him about it first; but the fact of the matter is, the accuser and I aren't even close friends (if you couldn't already tell) he happens to be an acquantance I've known from my college days.  I think we have spoken twice in the last 3.5 years since graduation.   <p>Now, based purely on the above actions, the Accuser wants to smear my reputation and application with the Y Combinator folks in hopes that they will reject my application .  Honestly, it doesn't even surprise me a bit that he would resort to this petty tactic; he was probably the type of kid that ran to mommy whenever he thought the neighborhood kids were excluding him--and mommy probably told the other kids to play nice or else.  <p>In response I encourage the Accuser to go ahead and tell the Y Combinator folks my real name and how I have wronged him, I'm sure doing so will make him look real mature in the eyes of the reviewing board and help out the chances for his own application.   <p>Btw, Mr. Accuser(last question I promise): Could you let me know how how that works for you in the business world someday?<p>Though I will not apologize for being "unethical", I will apologize to the Accuser for hurting his feelings.  And if he wants to we can even hug it out in person as well.<p>That's all folks as I have a monstrosity of an application I would like to finish.<p>p.s.<p>If there are other hackers who are passionate about creating somethings cool and would be interested in "joining me in the Daaarrrkkk Side..." on a promising venture please email me at rlc3u@yahoo.com.  I will need written consent from former collaborators (or else I may get a barrage of accusations about being "unethical").

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pg
Airing your dispute in a public forum like this makes you both seem like
damaged goods.

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rms
Welcome to to the banned for life club.

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pius
Sheesh, what could you have possibly said on TechCrunch?

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falsestprophet
Could it also be that he is selling illegal drugs over the internet (and
linking to the site from his news.yc profile)?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom#Legal_Status>

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rms
No, that has nothing to do with it. If you reread that link, you would find
that Kratom is only illegal in Thailand, Australia, Malaysia, and Burma and I
don't live in either of those countries.

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menloparkbum
It has been rumored that Y-Combinator favors younger teams, but I wasn't aware
that hackers as young as 12 are seeking seed capital.

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falsestprophet
This episode was an enormous mistake. I think that both of you have a very
poor understanding of how business must be conducted.

Whats more, the "accuser" is immature in the most troubling way. I could not
imagine working with him, least of all as his "hacker".

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henning
Drrrrama! Also, tl;dr.

More seriously, one of the few positive things the business world values is
clear, concise communication. Get thee to a copy of Strunk and White, post
haste.

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plusbryan
Unless you and your accuser are asserting that Hacker X is a man slave, I
don't think he can be owned.

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plusbryan
"I will need written consent from former collaborators"

Oh no, this won't be met with any blank stares _at all_.

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steveplace
This all seems to be remnants of office politics and fossils of typical
bureaucratic behavior. Which is what we're trying to escape from, right?

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kyro
I can't wait for the next episode!

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nickb
caveman82, you really need to adjust your moral compass. In the event the
other team doesn't get accepted and you do, that's when you should talk to
people about joining. Not during the application process. The other guy, who
wrote that blog post, is justified to be pissed off. You should have
apologized and not posted this nonsense here.

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gnaritas
There's nothing wrong with his moral compass, and there's nothing wrong with
offering a talented hacker work, no matter how you know him. The other guy was
pissed because he doesn't seem to have any talent of his own and considers the
hacker _his_ , an obviously absurd position.

This isn't high school, it's business, and if you're going to cry every time
someone approaches your talent, you don't belong in business. If your hacker
leaves you for another position, it's your fault, not the guy who hired him.

Though responding publicly was a bad move.

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nickb
Nothing wrong with trying to destroy other team by stealing their members?!

Oooooooooooooookay.

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gnaritas
"destroy", "stealing", what world are you living in? You don't steal people,
they leave or stay of their own free will. They're not trying to destroy you,
they're trying to succeed for themselves, and making an offer to a talented
hacker _at any time_ is perfectly legit. To think otherwise is silly, the
other team doesn't owe anyone anything. If I offer a hacker from another
company 20% more $$ to come work for me and he takes it, that's called
business, not "stealing and destroying". Besides, you can always match the
offer.

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Tichy
It's probably fair game to make an offer to anybody you like, but to expect
friendly responses from their colleagues would be asking too much. Think about
other men hitting on your girl-friend. It is certainly legal to do so, but you
probably wouldn't welcome it too much yourself.

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gnaritas
No one likes being out competed, that's a given, but no one should cry about
it publicly like they were wronged, especially if they actually won by not
losing their partner. More to the point, never act like you _own_ another
human being and are somehow _wronged_ by someone making them an offer, the
same would apply to a girlfriend.

Fair game is exactly the right phrase, in business offering anyone _more_
money or a better opportunity is _always_ fair game, hell, that is the damn
game. Want to keep your talent, then make sure you give them a fair deal and
don't begrudge them a better deal than you can offer should it come along.

It's unbelievably arrogant to continually refer to someone as _my hacker_ in
such a possessive manner, you may as well be saying _my ignorant slave_. That
hacker is likely much smarter than you are, give him some respect and stop
talking about him like property.

No one is ever _stolen_ in an adult relationship, only children think that,
adults _leave_ , there's a world of difference.

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curi
Calling him immature isn't a good way to come off mature. Making fun of him
regarding hurt feelings and hugging isn't a good idea either. The comments
about his mommy were in bad taste.

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BrandonM
Agreed. I sympathized with the "poacher" until s/he started taking needless
cheap shots like that at the end.

