
Returning to analog and putting digital in its place - castlegloom
http://rtalbert.org/return-to-analog/
======
al2o3cr
Quick, what goes in the blank?

    
    
        The free access which many young people have to *BLANK* has poisoned the mind and
        corrupted the morals of many a promising youth; and prevented others from improving
        their minds in useful knowledge. Parents take care to feed their children with
        wholesome diet; and yet how unconcerned about the provision for the mind, whether
        they are furnished with salutary food, or with trash, chaff, or poison?
    

Trick question, it's not "screens". It's "romances, novels, and plays" \-
quote taken from "Memoirs of the Bloomsgrove Family", Reverend Enos Hitchcock,
1790.

I'm all for carefully considering which tools you use every day, but spare me
the moralizing - it was gauche in 1790 and it hasn't improved with age.

~~~
monocasa
Socrates went into a similar rant on the written word in general.

> [Writing] will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls, because they
> will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written
> characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have
> discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your
> disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers
> of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be
> omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company,
> having the show of wisdom without the reality.

~~~
otakucode
John Philip Souza said that recorded music would destroy music, as amateur
musicians would be so disheartened by hearing the performances of virtuosos
that they would feel any practice would be futile. He also described a person
listening to music by themselves as a sort of craven masturbation, using great
imagery to have people imagine an emaciated antisocial hollow person curled up
next to a phonograph.

Next up: VR is craven masturbation, and the increased immersion will turn
children into psychopathic killers incapable of human kindness!

~~~
mwcampbell
And yet amateur musicians are still practicing and performing. In fact,
digital technology is enabling us amateur musicians to practice and get
together in new ways. To give just one example (in which I recently
participated) that's enabled by the Internet and the ease of repeatedly
listening to a recording for reference:
[https://www.festivaloffriendsevents.com/](https://www.festivaloffriendsevents.com/)
Edit: A little more explanation is in order. The event organizer announces a
date, a theme, and a set list. We amateur musicians register, each stating our
primary part and reserving our songs. Then we practice at home, using the
studio recordings for reference. Finally, we get together and just play the
songs. WIth no group rehearsal, sometimes it's not perfect, but it's fun.

~~~
mikestew
_And yet amateur musicians are still practicing and performing._

Of course they, because parent's point was that Sousa was horrendously wrong
(obviously). Sousa's problem was a one-dimensional view of musical
performance. He was foremost speaking from the POV of a professional
performer. Therefore, the goal of all amateur musicians is to become
professional performers, but once they hear a pro on a record they'll get
discouraged and give up. This, of course, is poppycock. I play a _lot_ of
music and have little desire to make money from it. What's that about taking a
fun hobby and turning it into work?

Second, I'm sure Sousa viewed recorded music as a threat to his job as a
professional live performer, while ignoring that records scale and live
performances don't. (Ignore for the moment the part where record companies
keep most of the profits.)

 _WIth no group rehearsal, sometimes it 's not perfect, but it's fun._

Heh, try a bluegrass jam. Someone calls a tune that I might, or might not,
know. They'll give a key, maybe a chord progression. Hell, if I'm lucky, I
might not only know the tune, I might have even played it in the last month so
I stand a chance of coming up with a solo (or "break" in bluegrass terms) on
the fly when it comes my turn. If I've never even _heard_ the tune, but it's
in (say) G with some variation of a I-IV-V progression, I can probably
improvise with something that follows the melody. Or not.

Needless to say, I've had some solos/breaks that only were "not perfect", I
corkscrewed into the ground with my tail on fire. That's the topsy-turvy world
of jamming. But similar to your setup, even when I've completely embarrassed
myself, it's always fun.

(As an aside, though it sounds like something I'd not participate in, your
setup sounds like a fun way to get to play with people.)

------
cmiles74
I have to agree with what others here have said: the moralizing rubs me the
wrong way and, in this case, I don't think it serves any purpose but to move
blame away from the author and onto the technology that he perceives as his
primary problem.

I have a child and they have access to a Kindle, our television (with Netflix,
Amazon Prime, etc.) as well as our Nintendo 3DS. These all (in my opinion)
serve much the same purpose: entertain, distract and in some circumstances
help people relax. Since the beginning my partner and I have been clear that
it's not okay to sit in front of one (or cycle through them all) for hours at
a time. At this point our child is seven and they rarely exceed more than 30
minutes at a time of screen interaction. For the most part, they move onto
something else on their own.

Clearly part of it is personality, but I do think some part was the
establishment of clear boundaries from the start. Perhaps when my child hits
the teen years, I'll have to revisit this battle but for now keeping screen
time at a minimum is a fairly low friction activity.

As this author demonstrates, there's a very real challenge as parents to make
the time to schedule activities or to encourage children to get out and play.
This strikes me as eternal problems: no seven year old is great at planning
ahead or has the ability to schedule their own play dates. But, unlike when I
was a child, there are more options than staring at a blank wall or digging
deep holes in the backyard.

~~~
nicoburns
> Clearly part of it is personality, but I do think some part was the
> establishment of clear boundaries from the start. Perhaps when my child hits
> the teen years, I'll have to revisit this battle but for now keeping screen
> time at a minimum is a fairly low friction activity.

I think this is absolutely key. I see screens like I see sugary foods. Not
inherently bad for kids, but best consumed in moderation AND something that
kids will over-consume if left to their own devices.

------
naoru
Based on title I first assumed that this is about signal processing, but then
came the disappointment.

~~~
sguav
I thought it was about analog computing like [1] but sadly not...

[1] [https://blog.degruyter.com/algorithms-suck-analog-
computers-...](https://blog.degruyter.com/algorithms-suck-analog-computers-
future/)

~~~
supermdguy
Yeah, that's what I was expecting as well.

------
mwcampbell
> Vinyl records, board games, paper notebooks, brick-and-mortar bookstores

All of which are less accessible to people with disabilities than their
digital counterparts (at least when the digital counterparts are done right).
For the latter three, I'm thinking in particular of blind people (and people
with severely limited vision like me). True, a lot of computer and mobile
games are not accessible to us, but some are.

All of these tools are also inaccessible to people with mobility impairments.
For example, in his book _Hit Refresh_, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella writes
about how some high school students helped his oldest son, who has severe
cerebral palsy, more easily enjoy a wide range of music, by developing a
Windows app that uses a sensor in the wheelchair. That would have been
impractical with vinyl records.

> Using analog tools in teaching

This is where the author's preference for analog may inadvertently exclude
some students that are there in the room. True, putting something up on a
screen doesn't automatically make it accessible. But at least there are
possibilities, without requiring someone to transcribe. For example, when a
teacher has prepared a slide deck in advance, they can make it available to a
blind student by email before the class period, and the student can then
review it with a screen reader. Accessibility for content being shown on a
screen in real time is still a largely unsolved problem, but a solution is
feasible.

Having said all that, I certainly agree that we need to moderate our content
consumption for our mental and social well-being, and moderate screen time for
a good night's sleep if nothing else. I spend a lot of time in front of a
screen, though I can only read it up close and use a screen reader most of the
time for web browsing. I think I'll start spending some time away from the
screen before I go to bed. Yes, I'll be listening to music in digital format,
but as far as I know, the ear can't really tell the difference.

------
thriftwy
My issue here is that screen content today often of very low quality.

It's even worse than TV was 25 years ago (actual TV became worse too during
that period).

Even what I'm having on my screen, non-work-related, is information equivalent
of trash food.

I now have doubts whether I am comfortable in letting my kid on this crapfest.
Case in point: games that have no gameplay, no difficulty, no plot, no
information, and exist solely to make spend money via in-app purchases. This
of course lets them kill off everything else on market by putting half of that
money into advertising.

~~~
cableshaft
There's still plenty of really excellent tv and games out there, there's just
also a lot more crap too.

~~~
thriftwy
It seems that I am unable to navigate the offerings.

There used to be forums, there used to be communities, there used to be
journals if it comes to that. Now it's nothing of that. It's awful tops from
Google Play and even awfuler advertising. I don't understand how one searches
for something of value.

With TV it's easier because there's at least IMDB.

~~~
mikestew
_It seems that I am unable to navigate the offerings._

I don't navigate them at all. I hear about shows from coworkers, or
occasionally trip across something right here on HN. As a recent example, I
present _The Orville_.
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15333242](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15333242))
I mean, I'd _heard_ of it, but it didn't sound like it was for me. As the
thread shows, I was wrong. Now my wife and I are hooked. Or sometimes a show
will just get mentioned in passing here, I'll look it up, watch an episode to
find out if we'll like it. Once in a great while Netflix or iTunes will come
up with something "you might like, mikestew!" that's worth watching. Not very
often, though.

That's it, we just watch what I've tripped across serendipitously. And we
can't keep up (just now getting to the third season of _12 Monkeys_ ).
Granted, our viewing habits might not match most (if there's nothing on, then
we do something else). But if we want to sit down and watch something, we
rarely lack for something of quality.

Contrast that with the "25 years ago" you use as a comparison. My memory of TV
in the 90s was using the TV set to watch movies and ST:NG. I don't think we
watched much, if any, actual TV shows because I recall that there was nothing
worth watching except ST:NG.

Games are the same for me, whatever my circle mentions, and whatever Bethesda
has put out recently. That might or might not work for others, especially if
you don't like RPGs like Bethesda puts out. I've tried paying attention to IGN
and the like, but, yeah...

That's not to argue that it isn't a crapfest out there. It's partially why I
quit paying attention. Let's take _Modern Family_ as an example. Seems to get
rave reviews, it's been on for a while. Hmm, might be decent. I didn't even
know that shows still _did_ laugh tracks. And the jokes were recycled versions
of what was on TV 40 years ago in the 70s. Drop an episode in a time machine
to 1978, and the only difference viewers would notice are those strange glass
hand-held devices the characters keep staring at, and wow, their microwave
sure is small.

~~~
thriftwy
With shows it's easier. With apps it's harder because it's now what usually
gets discussed and tastes vary a great deal.

------
combatentropy
Analog beats digital for some things because it's only 2017. In 2047, our tech
will seem as clunky and limited as 1987 looks to us today.

Paper notebooks still beat computers in some ways. Acknowledging this is the
key to keep moving forward. Computer screens are rigid, paper is flexible.
Computers take Wi-Fi and batteries, paper doesn't. Screens often cut up their
space with sticky navbars at the top, disclaimers at the bottom, ads on the
right and even in the middle. Computer input is by a rigid and limited
keyboard or by a blunt stylus across a slippery screen. Pen on paper provides
friction for feedback and control.

Relevant quote from article: " [...] I got out an unused Moleskine notebook.
[...] I instantly remembered how much I love writing, just the physical
sensation of it and the flexibility of analog tools. [...] It's been a
revelation to use a paper notebook for this. Before [...] I would try to take
handwritten notes using my iPad, or use Evernote. It was always fussy and
frustrating: The wifi wouldn’t connect, for example. Or, the pen would lag on
my iPad and the resulting notes were illegible. Or, I was using Evernote and
couldn’t easily hand-annotate what I was typing; or using OneNote and
experiencing horrific data corruption and sync issues."

------
Stenzel
Am I the only one having a problem with the term "analog" for everything non-
digital? First of all digits can very well be analog to something, e.g. a CD
contains digits analogous to sound pressure in a similar way a vinyl records
has grooves analogous to sound. Furthermore analog means quite the opposite of
the "real thing" \- as the name says, it is an analogy of something, not the
thing itself. I could just let go and accept the new meaning of analog, but I
think the implication of using it this way leads to the false impression that
everything digital is just fake and a mere approximation of the-real-thing. As
someone who breathes digitally, this makes me a bit sad.

------
cableshaft
I would argue that while there's nothing wrong with digital and I still do
plenty of things digitally, there's something to be said for the analog as
well. Digital still doesn't offer a few things that can be valuable: in-person
social interaction (pretty much by definition), flexibility (I can write
literally anything on a piece of paper, it doesn't have to conform to any
particular structure or require I load a drawing app to make a diagram, etc),
and having a physical artifact of your efforts.

I used to make a bunch of attempts at keeping journals digital only in the
past, and in the past year I started keeping a physical design diary where I
recorded all my game design ideas. It's hard work keeping up with it, but
seeing the result of those efforts is very much worth it to me. Then in
addition to that I spend a little extra time digitizing it (basically when my
brain is mush and I don't want to think about things), so I have both the
artifact and a digital copy of it for reference on the go.

I have a gazillion files on my hard drive, and all those things can easily get
buried into archives or deep nests of folders and become 'out of sight, out of
mind' for me. But I can pick up the diary, browse through it, go "Oh yeah,
that thing! I should think about that some more", and if I happen to die, I
bet most of my digital files will be completely overlooked, whereas people
will see the design diaries and potentially do something with them.

It is a lot more work to write everything physically though. I seem to be
perpetually a month behind on recording in it nowadays.

Secondly, I used to work in video games, and I really got tired of everything
I worked on eventually being unable to be enjoyed by friends because it was
trapped on an old platform, or the company no longer supported it, it
disappeared from an app store (sometimes after only two years), the format
stops being supported (in the case of my old Flash games), etc.

Meanwhile, most of my board game designs are all cards, tokens, etc that are
completely self-contained, don't require system or platform upgrades, and can
easily survive 50 years or more (I know, because I own board games still in
excellent condition that are that old).

~~~
reificator
> Then in addition to that I spend a little extra time digitizing it
> (basically when my brain is mush and I don't want to think about things), so
> I have both the artifact and a digital copy of it for reference on the go.

That's why I use LiveScribe, it handles that step automatically.

It's not an either or...

~~~
cableshaft
So it detects your handwriting pretty well? I don't have any experience with
smartpens.

------
devmunchies
> _For the kids, they get their screens back before they leave for school_

Is this the norm now for kids to have smart devices? Are there more benefits
than dangers in letting a pre-teen/early teen have a smart device?

------
learn_more
Analog is more intimate than digital. When I look at the night sky through my
binoculars, the photons of distant stars land upon my retina. They touch me,
and I touch them, despite the stars being light years away.

When I look through a digital camera, I see the stars but I know the photons
are fraudulent. The information is there, but it's lost something.

With analog, if I could focus better, I'd see more and more detail, until it's
inseparable from noise, but it's still in there somewhere

With digital, if I zoom, I know I'll find just a pixel or a cold dead square
wave.

------
otakucode
Does the author have children... or pets? Because it doesn't sound like he
acknowledges his children as people at all. Perhaps the reason the children
resort to screens is because it's the only way he's made possible for them to
have any degree of autonomy or independence? He makes it clear that he walks
around the neighborhood WITH them, he goes to visit their friends from school
WITH them, etc. The reason many kids don't like to go outside isn't because
outside isn't interesting - it's because the parents expect to go WITH them.

Back. Off. The kids are 8, 11, and 13. The 8 year old might still need some
hand-holding, but the 11 and 13 year old should be developing independence and
autonomy and figuring out who they are going to be. They're PEOPLE.

~~~
Aloha
I'm a child of the 90's, I'll preface this with that.

The problem isn't the freedom from the screen - its the societal expectation
that parents need to go outside with their children, and that children cannot
be left alone for a fear of the unknown.

At 8, I spent hours away from adults, I listened to the radio, to music, read
books, spent time with my cohorts - at age 10-11-12 - I was riding my bike
miles from home alone - and this was in the age before kids had cellphones
too, I always carried change for a payphone, and had phone numbers for my mom
at work, and my grandparents (who lived about 6 miles away) memorized.

I see nothing wrong with reducing to eliminating screen time - digital devices
are pervasive and have a stunting effect on socialization and people skills
(in my opinion) - the issue is, is the presumption that children shouldn't
otherwise be left alone unsupervised.

