
Tza'ar Ba'alei Chayim - quantumwoke
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tza%27ar_ba%27alei_chayim
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tinyhouse
I don't really understand why this wiki article is a HN post... but since
kosher slaughter was mentioned let me give you some more details. BTW, I'm
Jewish myself.

1\. Based on Jewish holidays and traditions, I doubt "Tza'ar Ba'alei Chayim"
was ever a factor. For example, in Yom Kippur one of the traditions called
Kapparot is about swinging a live chicken over others' head. Example:
[https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2013/09/f111007...](https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2013/09/f111007DV041-e1378973790967.jpg)

2\. The main reason today for kosher slaughter and kosher food in general is
money. It's how the orthodox community in Israel makes money. It's a big
industry that employs many orthodox people. Kosher restaurants in Israel need
to pay money to get a kosher certificate. There are multiple organizations
that can certify a place as kosher (some have more strict requirements than
others). Those places usually visit those restaurants to inspect their
kosherness similarly to food inspection everywhere else. (but their focus is
only the kosher part, not the food quality). A restaurant can be 100% kosher
but most religious people won't visit it unless it's certified kosher by
somebody that meets their requirements.

For secular people in Israel the worse part about kosher restaurants is that
they must be closed during Shabbat (Friday afternoon till Saturday evening).
Basically, the religious parties in Israel want everything to be closed during
that time (no public transit, no entertainment, restaurants, etc.)

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caiocaiocaio
I quit Reddit about a year ago, and the straw that broke the camel's back was
me mentioning this in passing, and having literally hundreds of neo-nazis
flood my inbox with all kinds of indescribably insane messages.

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jeswin
I used to be non-vegetarian until two years back. Today it's difficult to
imagine sentient animals being separated from their families and taken to be
slaughtered. There really is no excuse for this cruelty.

~~~
weregiraffe
>Today it's difficult to imagine sentient animals being separated from their
families and taken to be slaughtered. There really is no excuse for this
cruelty.

What is your opinion about predators in the wild, murdering and eating
sentient animals?

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colanderman
As humans, we have the means (in most, though not all, parts of the world) to
thrive on a vegan diet, and ethical frameworks to understand the implications
of our diet. Those traits distinguish us from almost certainly every other
predator on the planet. We therefore cannot project our ethical obligations
onto them.

~~~
vharuck
But what if the life of an animal is better when raised for slaughter than in
the wild? This isn't true for all farms, of course, but what about the animals
raised with plenty of food, space to roam, and others of their species to
socialize with?

It's tempting to say "Killing is always wrong," but the meat industry is more
than just the moment of slaughter.

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sterkekoffie
Animals are not captured from the wild and brought to farms. They're produced
on farms in highly industrialized breeding operations. The alternative to a
farm animal living in captivity is not for the animal to live in the wild,
it's for the animal to not live--that is, to have not been bred by humans--in
the first place.

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intellectronica
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shechita#Animal_welfare_contro...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shechita#Animal_welfare_controversies)

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mmanfrin
Interesting -- this likely explains why Tel Aviv has such a high concentration
of vegans.

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harel
No, i doubt that is the reason. It's just higher level of global awareness and
a touch of hipster that is the likely cause. Israel is still largely a country
of meat eaters. And personally, as a former vegetarian/current carnivore, I
don't see how kosher slaughter is related the welfare of animals. Surely a
swift instant death is better than letting the animal suffocate and/or bleed
to death.

~~~
cat199
> I don't see how kosher slaughter is related the welfare of animals.

not jewish so commenting outside of my area, but, I think that when the
practices were installed, the methods were the 'best available' (and so in
line with this thinking), but the problem is that now there is so much
tradition bound up with the practice that it's hard to install an alternative
practice if one indeed is better (also not up on butchering, so cant comment
here either)

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harel
I think you're right (I am Jewish by some default, but very much non-kosher).
The practice itself is what makes the Kosher "Kosher". If the animal was
killed in a different way, it's not Kosher. I know that as a carnivore I might
be frowned upon by militant vegans for saying it, but I'm very aware i'm
eating dead animals, not apologetic about it, and would rather eat animals
that had a good healthy life and a swift painless death. Kosher slaughter to
me is not a swift painless death (not to mention I have a lot of "beef" with
the whole "Kosher" rabbinical institute).

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29athrowaway
Show this to someone at the Weizmann Institute of Science.

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ngneer
I was wandering with a friend at night at the Weizmann and was curious to see
the view from atop one of the buildings. The next thing we know, campus
security is ordering us to come down, concerned we were there to liberate the
animals. Anecdotes aside, not sure what the wikipedia article is doing on HN,
seems highly unrelated.

~~~
howard941
Surely it has aspirational merit?

