
Spanish soldiers find bodies in Madrid retirement homes - thdespou
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0324/1124967-spain-coronavirus/
======
genezeta
Some additional details from other local sources. Details are scarce, so...
sorry, but I think I can add a couple of things to the linked article.

The UME (Military Emergency Unit) has been disinfecting retirement homes for
some days now (about a week IIRC). Initially they were only allowed to do
this, disinfestation, and it was the homes' responsibility to "ask for help"
on anything else when needed, and some didn't.

The news referred to in the article is that "at least 2" undeclared dead
people have been found by the UME and also a number of cases of abandonment.
Besides these "at least 2", there have been some other deaths but, generally,
they have been declared. (What I know from friends: Most homes have secluded
people in their rooms and many are understaffed to check on them frequently
enough.)

A related problem seems to be that funeral services are overwhelmed: they
don't have enough space to store the bodies, and they do not have protective
gear to deal with the bodies correctly (added note, see below comment). This
has led to an announcement yesterday that a local ice-skating ring is being
arranged to store those bodies temporarily while they wait to be disposed of.

~~~
alfonsodev
Funeral services rejected to get bodies with covid-19 because the lack of
materials to deal with it properly, and therefore it would be irresponsable.
Not saying they might not be overwhelmed as well.

~~~
yomly
A friend working in the hospitals in Paris intimated that the morgues are full
and portable freezers are now being used to store all the dead...

------
mrleiter
That is just utterly sad and reprehensible. I cannot find better words. They
are stuck in my throat.

~~~
alfonsodev
This is how lack of planning and saturation looks like, workers in those
houses might have been positive of SARS-CoV-2 and put in quarantine at their
homes, in some places volunteers are helping to cover those positions, we
don't have all the information of every house, it is a drama, I want to think
and attribute it to incompetence rather than evil. Other countries should
learn from this and don't let the system saturate, It is sad, and unthinkable
in the 21st century, I think that's why most countries will be caught by
surprise, they might think this won't happen to them.

~~~
mnl
They have to show up at work by law, but there are unscrupulous people making
a lot of money with shady nursing homes that simply have shown their lack of
any human decency with this.

I'm pretty sure they'll get their due retribution, people are aghast at this
criminal behaviour here.

------
enriquto
Spain is an inherently dysfunctional country. A ridiculous ghost of an old
evil empire. Its territory must be split and given to neighboring countries
and new countries that are created.

~~~
PopeDotNinja
Maybe delete your comment? You aren't doing yourself any favors by saying that
kind of stuff.

~~~
mPReDiToR
Are we supposed to only say popular stuff?

All ideas are worth discusding, even if only to explain why they are not going
to be implemented.

~~~
x__x
"Are we supposed to only say popular stuff?"

I've noticed a lot of censorship on this site

~~~
gindely
Governments censor. I really wish I could read the "flagged" posts sometimes
but the rules are the rules.

~~~
krapp
Everyone censors.

A community is defined by a common set of values and cultural norms, which are
a means of censoring those of outgroups in order to maintain a cohesive
identity. People censor themselves constantly in order to stay within the
boundaries of the law and the norms of public decency.

An online community which has a specific purpose by definition censors content
which falls outside that purpose. Hell, the fact that we can't post illegal
content is, itself, a form of censorship.

Not everything is, or should be, /b/. Although that site censors as well.

~~~
gindely
choosing what not to say isn't censorship. Censorship is when the someone with
power forces you to refrain from saying something - not just in a particular
forum, but in any effective way. This place tells you "if you want to spread
certain ideas on the internet from the comfort of your chair, consider twitter
or wordpress". Censorship is when the government tells you "if you want to to
spread certain ideas on the internet from the comfort of your chair, please
consider the gulag or child porn charges". The difference is stark.

Diluting words of meaning doesn't help maintain free speech. It helps destroy
it. If we don't know what free speech is, we can't defend it.

(The fact that you can't post illegal content is a form of censorship. But
that's not hackernews censoring you, it's the government. The fact that some
content is illegal is literally the definition of censorship.)

~~~
krapp
>Censorship is when the someone with power forces you to refrain from saying
something - not just in a particular forum, but in any effective way.

Choosing what not to say based on a fear of the consequences of that speech
means that society, or whatever group you're communicating with, has exercised
some form of influence or social authority over your speech, which is
censorship. The oft-expressed axiom that "The right to swing my arms in any
direction ends where your nose begins" is censorship. Who are you, or anyone,
to say where my rights begin and end?

>This place tells you "if you want to spread certain ideas on the internet
from the comfort of your chair, consider twitter or wordpress". Censorship is
when the government tells you "if you want to to spread certain ideas on the
internet from the comfort of your chair, please consider the gulag or child
porn charges".

And the consensus on Hacker News seems to be that those are perfectly
equivalent, that a platform rejecting certain kinds of speech or users being
told what sort of speech is acceptable and what isn't inevitably leads to
Orwellian fascism. Terms of service and codes of conduct are routinely
considered censorship. Amazon banning the sale of Mein Kampf is censorship.
Twitter banning anyone for any reason is censorship. Youtube not showing
extremist videos in recommendations is censorship. Why is there suddenly a
grey area where there never was before?

>Diluting words of meaning doesn't help maintain free speech. It helps destroy
it. If we don't know what free speech is, we can't defend it.

Attempting to "thought police" the meaning of words in such a prescriptivist
manner is censorship. Who are you to say what words mean? When I use a word,
it means precisely what I intend it to mean, no more, no less.

Government censorship is one form of censorship... and the only form of
censorship relevant to the first amendment, but "censorship" itself is a much
broader and more complex phenomenon.

