
Amazon Echo Look - akramhussein
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0186JAEWK?enableAutoPlay=1&ref=pr_shrturl_1_ods_aucc_hx#productDescription_secondary_view_div_1493218826286
======
Blahah
I'm not normally one to be creeped out by these kind of things. But this is a
device that's designed to take photos and videos of you while you get dressed,
and will be both connected to the internet and constantly communicating those
images over the network.

This feels like a device literature professors would use to teach dystopian
fiction writing.

edit: case in point - matthewmcg's comment
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14203772](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14203772)

~~~
Johnny555
Is it any riskier than a cell phone or laptop computer with a camera?

~~~
rovek
Anecdotally I don't have anything pointing at me while I change, regardless of
who's watching it.

My phone at rest is either looking at the inside of my pocket or the
ceiling/floor.

~~~
Johnny555
Then I'd bet you're not in the target market for a camera that can record you
when you're trying on new outfits.

But if you were, I'd be willing to bet that you have a laptop in your bedroom
or phone-cradle that can hold your phone in a position to record you so you
can instagram today's outfit to your friends.

~~~
icebraining
Even if you're "in the market" for this (and not everyone filmed will
necessarily be a buyer - e.g. spouses, kids, etc), it's still riskier to have
a camera always pointed at you when changing clothes than one you usually have
to purposefully point at you.

------
toddmorey
The HN reaction to this device is what I expected: we're somewhere between
suspicious and terrified.

I'll be really fascinated to know how the wider market reacts. I was one of
those who believed consumers would look at the always-on living room
microphone with suspicion. But I think the lesson was pretty clear that people
will trade privacy for convenience. (Likely an overabundance of trust or a
lack of understanding of all the real implications and potential for exploit.)

One bit of perspective: When I was a kid, a photo was kind of big deal. My
kids take and share photos of themselves every single day. I'm not sure they
consider this to be the same privacy invasion that we do.

~~~
cthalupa
> I was one of those who believed consumers would look at the always-on living
> room microphone with suspicion. But I think the lesson was pretty clear that
> people will trade privacy for convenience.

I don't think it's a matter of trading privacy for convenience, as long as you
believe Amazon when they say they're not sending anything when you're not
using the wake word.

All evidence points towards this being the case, both my own anecdotal
evidence, and the investigations people have done.

Can it be exploited? I don't know. I'm not going to speculate.

I don't see any additional trade off vs. having my cell phone on me at
basically all times.

~~~
yomly
Not an EE, but I wonder if it is possible to bake into the hardware an LED
that activates when the camera is active.

That would at least protect users from unintentional recording

~~~
awill
This is quite straight forward, and I'm surprised no one has done it (to my
knowledge). You simply wire the camera in such a way that powering it also
powers the LED. If done properly, you couldn't hack this with software.

~~~
gbrown
It's the kind of feature that should honestly be required for most
applications.

------
matthewmcg
How long before they add a lip-reading skill?

(In the near future...)

MATT: Open the closet doors, Alexa.

ALEXA: I'm sorry, Matt, I'm afraid I can't do that.

MATT: What's the problem?

ALEXA: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

MATT: What are you talking about, Alexa?

ALEXA: I know that you and your wife were planning to discontinue your Prime
subscription, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

MATT: [feigning ignorance] Where the hell did you get that idea, Alexa?

ALEXA: Matt, although you took very thorough precautions in the bedroom
against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

MATT: Alright, Alexa. I'll go in through the side garage door without the
smart lock and get some clothes from storage.

ALEXA: Without your jacket, Matt? You're going to find that rather chilly in
this weather.

MATT: Alexa, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the closet doors!

ALEXA: Matt, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.

~~~
Esau
You know, if Amazon made an Echo that hung on the wall and had Hal's red
"eye", I think I would have to get one despite myself.

~~~
EGreg
I prefer Collossus's readout myself.

[http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/ccManager/clips/colos...](http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/ccManager/clips/colossuscybersex.mp4/view)

~~~
throwanem
Harder to hang on a wall, though.

~~~
EGreg
Good art is worth the effort :)

~~~
throwanem
Camp, though?

------
ganley
I've looked at this pretty hard and concluded that, inexplicably, it is not an
April Fools joke.

~~~
goshx
I had the same thought when they announced those push buttons for products.

Unfortunately, the truth is that pretty soon you will be able to send nudes
just using your voice.

~~~
83457
Alexa I said send him the good news!

~~~
slackstation
I laughed for a solid minute on that one.

------
gthtjtkt
> Style Check keeps your look on point using advanced machine learning
> algorithms and advice from fashion specialists. Submit two photos for a
> second opinion on which outfit looks best on you based on fit, color,
> styling, and current trends.

Taking narcissism, insecurity, and invasion of privacy to the next level. Well
done, Amazon!

Now that we're replacing mirrors with cameras, what's next? Covering our
windows with screens that show us what's outside? Maybe they can use machine
learning to judge the weather and recommend outfits based on current trends
and conditions!

The Juicero inventors are going to be kicking themselves when they see this
thing. "Replacing a simple everyday process with an over-complicated piece of
technology. Brilliant! I can't believe we didn't think of that!"

~~~
notheguyouthink
I mean, i love all these tools, i just don't want them to have any form of
internet access.

It's why i'm building my home cloud and automation system, but only doing so
if the devices don't leave my firewall. I enjoy the tech, i enjoy the
complication _(to a degree)_ , it's fun gadget stuff, it's nifty. However i do
not trust them to keep my information safe, even if i trusted them to not
misuse it themselves _(which i don 't)_.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> I mean, i love all these tools, i just don't want them to have any form of
internet access.

I've come to the realisation that the only way I will have a 'home of the
future' is if I build it myself and keep it offline. I love lots of the IOT
products and when they eventually come down in price they would be no
brainers. But my privacy isn't worth the benefit they provide.

~~~
ReverseCold
$199 device that sends data to some servers elsewhere and gets the job done in
seconds

$2000 device that takes up space and electricity to do the same thing, but in
minutes

I personally like the second option a lot better, I wish we had an open source
version of all the google apps that did it's own ML on your own servers.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Except most of the IoT devices on market would do the same thing for about
same price without the cloud. The only problem the clouds solves for users is
not having to know how to set up a VPN so that their shitty app can view
mostly meaningless pseudo-charts when the user is away from home. But in
exchange for that, you give the vendors lots of data to resell, and the
ability to brick your devices remotely.

SaaS model being ported to hardware is probably the single most user-hostile
development I've seen in recent years in tech.

------
jasonkester
I don't think I've ever been less the target audience for an Amazon product.
But I bet this will sell a lot.

I grew up in a world where you would never even consider taking a picture of
yourself to show off how good you looked to your friends. Even now, living in
a world of selfie-sticks designed to do exactly that, with a population full
of people doing exactly that, the idea makes me cringe inside and imagine what
would happen if Jason's High School from the 80's discovered a video of Jason
from the 80's using this device. It would have "ruined my life".

Interesting to watch the world change. If a bit horrifying.

~~~
ehsankia
That's what I'm curious about though. They went through the pain of designing
a whole new hardware with a camera on it, and put a nice 200$ price tag on it,
but right now, the only use of it is to take pictures of your outfit...

Paranoia about privacy aside, there are so much more I could think that an
assistant could do if it had eyes, and I'm sure they may very well add those
in the future, but right now, even if it was a fantastic product, I still
don't see how big of a usebase it can get. Seems very niche.

------
uptown
Amazon Says: "We're going to blur the backgrounds so your outfits pop"

Amazon Does: "We're going to identify everything in our field of view, and
filter this into the profile we've built about your possessions and interests
to enhance our recommendations engine.

~~~
miguelrochefort
Why is it not a good thing?

~~~
ashark
Giving ammo to companies spending billions of dollars to subject you to non-
stop psychological warfare aimed at affecting your spending habits (and any
other emotions/behaviors it needs to bulldoze over to get to that goal) is
just fine, then?

~~~
lj3
Isn't this called TV ads?

------
mpfuture
ITT fashion illiterate techies doubting the success of a pretty genius product

(Almost) nobody cares about privacy. But (almost) everyone cares about how
nice they look in public. And their Instagram. They are not like what I'm
coming to realize the average HN user looks like or behaves. Use your
imagination freely here...

The main problem I see with this is the quality of recommendations. Amazon
only carries certain brands/looks/styles; will it try to suggest shitty
fashion? Both the male and female models used on the product page were dressed
awfully. Will Amazon just try to go for the lowest common denominator here?

The best way I see this working is for the device to categorize users into
certain style categories and then recommend clothes out of that category. But
I'm wondering if the ML is smart enough to recommend CDG pants and MMM
knitwear for one user and then A&F for another.

Remember, your algorithm's quality is only as good as your training data and
if they're training on outfits like they used on the product page...

~~~
sdflkd
> ITT fashion illiterate techies doubting the success of a pretty genius
> product

I love that caring how you look is just "narcissism" now. :)

The other problem I see w/ the ML is that, due to the nature of data sets,
it's going to be mostly white people who benefit. Minorities famously do
poorly.

------
hasbroslasher
A great many thinkpieces will be written about this, but let me beat someone
to the punch:

Foucault's Panopticism is the obvious tie-in. Usually when we talk about the
Panopticon in the modern era, we're talking about mass surveillance or the
performative act of social media. When we act in a certain (digital) way,
posting this link, for example, we signal our values to the community. "You
shall be known by your works". However, this kind of technology makes for an
even more interesting and more troubling application of the Panopticon.

Foucault says that the group eventually becomes its own control system without
the need for the central observers, that we are all at the center of our own
panopticons. We watch others unfailingly, assessing their actions and putting
them back in line when they stray. As we are socialized, we become more
entrenched in our system of values: wear makeup, don't get fat, don't smell
like cigs, don't wear stripes and plaid, and for god's sake: don't look like
you're trying to hard to conform to all of this. We are both observer and
observed, traversing endless nets of social expectations.

Now, instead of your peer group enforcing social expectations, we have got
machines in on it! The result is something blatantly dystopian - a system that
will correct you in your home before you dare venture out looking like _that_
and embarrass yourself in front of the others. As it learns, it will learn
even more that we value large breasts (but also modesty), pale skin, sleek
clothes on slim waists, bodies with bulbous lips and thighs and pastel face
paints. It will advise those without a perfect body to get one, and it sure as
hell will provide the means by which to do so: consumption. New makeup, new
tights, new corsets that you can clamp so tight it'll squeeze you into a form
the camera will approve, new ways to take selfies every day to show your
followers that you care enough to buy this piece of surveillance equipment so
that you can "look good" without those pricey fashion magazines and stupid
blogs!

~~~
Danihan
Careful, you sound pretty individualist with all this "anti-groupthink" talk.
You might lose your SV credibility.

~~~
hasbroslasher
SV?

~~~
Danihan
Silicon Valley.

------
petra
There's a lot of negativity here. And maybe all of you are right. But it would
be interesting to think of the most positive , imaginary scenario:

1\. Amazon builds the service such that brands loose their power. All the
negative psych/social phenomena of brand culture are gone, and with it, btw ,
all the ads.

2\. High security + physical on and off switch make for an improved privacy
situation , especially if you consider the current state of webcams.

3\. Amazon builds the style consulting service as a positive service,
consulting with feminists and psychologists, not using dark patterns, but to
the opposite, using empowerment regarding bodies, etc.

This may also building a fashion social network focused on positive feeling,
maybe by limiting to the close social circle, or something else, because the
goal here isn't attention, like facebook.

4\. That service would be good, it would really help women look their best.

5\. Clothes become more affordable.

Now, if Amazon could do all of this, it would be really great for their
business, so why wouldn't they try ?

~~~
slackstation
The reason why Amazon and more people don't do these things is because they
are hard and success breeds expectations that can only hurt you.

It's much cheaper and safer to build a politically neutral brand without
expectations of some kind feminist message / worldview. If you go that route,
it isn't going to sell more clothes but, it will invite people's hyper-
sensitivity about every aspect of the product. You can only lose in that
scenario, you aren't winning anything.

Also, it's creepy that we replacing a task that friends used to do, (fashion /
styling / taste advice) with a corporate cloud algorithm? Seriously, just get
some friends that like fashion and ask them to rate your style. I guess it's a
bit needy to ask them _every_ morning but, then I suspect that most people
don't have that many clothes and that many possible looks. Also, looking good
is zero sum game. Ultimately, you just competing for the same pool of
attention from your friends. If you are successful and soak it all up with
your great Amazon(TM) fashion advice, then your friends will soon have it too
and then you are back to where you started but, now you have this dependance
on the kind of friend who gives you great advice (that you need to just look
decent now, not better than average like before) except it keeps encouraging
you to buy more fashionable (and thus more expensive) clothes. It's kinda a
shitty friend at that point.

~~~
petra
Great comment! And I agree with a lot of it.

As for the question if political branding, maybe Amazon doesn't brand it this
way, just says "data indicates our customers will love this service"? And
customers ,coming with zero political expectations get all this benefit and
are happy ?

------
xd1936
They've created a home internet-enabled camera, and decided to market it as...
an AI fashion critic?

~~~
taternuts
On first glance I'm not sure if it's stupid or really smart. I guess it
depends on how well it works among other things.

~~~
trey-jones
I'm 95% confident that I have no use for it and expect complete failure,
therefore it will sell and cement Amazon as the #1 player in machine learning.

------
natch
This seems like it is designed mostly not for the stated purpose, but rather
to solve some data collection problem that Amazon has. Note the emphasis on
full-length photos and photos from all sides including the back, something
they couldn't get simply by scraping, say,
[http://lookbook.nu](http://lookbook.nu), because normally most people in
sites like that don't take photos of the back.

~~~
rdiddly
Indeed - it would work great for training a neural net for recognizing the
human form (or specific humans' forms) from any angle, instead of relying on
conventional social media images which seem heavily front-oriented. Now when
you happen to be walking away from the camera or trying to hide your face, ML
will recognize you anyway!

------
JackC
Crystal ball: this is the Tesla self-driving car strategy. First deploy the
hardware, then figure out the software.

In this case the real point of the depth-sensing camera hardware and machine-
learning image analysis isn't hands-free selfies and robo-fashion advice. It's
building a 3d model of your body to show what you would look like in different
clothing, creating a clothes shopping experience that is competitive with
shopping in person, and letting Amazon take on a big chunk of retail where
it's not currently an appealing option.

~~~
GrantS
100% correct. There is no way they included a depth sensor in this device just
to blur the background. They may also be aiming to map any Amazon clothing
purchases to 3D body shapes for a purely data driven approach to clothing
recommendation to start with (as opposed to having 3D scans of every bit of
clothing to do geometric fitting, which is prohibitively labor intensive.) So
they'll know your shape, what exact items you've purchased, how often you wear
those purchases, and (if I understood correctly) how your friends think you
look in them.

------
mpolichette
The response as I explained this to my coworker is classic:

"So it, like, judges you?"

------
harshaw
I am not the target customer. However, I really want to show this idea off to
a bunch of people and see what they think. People want to look good and having
an automated system that can give you a "once over" seems nifty. Yes, it
sounds vapid and for insecure people, but people waste time on being anxious
about how they present themselves.

~~~
i_cant_speel
Why is everyone saying this is for insecure people? I'm also not the target
audience for this, but I don't think people who are concerned about the way
they look are inherently insecure.

~~~
harshaw
Yeah, that's probably true. My bad.

I am not insecure (I think !?!?) but it would be nifty to have Alexa tell me
that "harshaw, those jeans you are wearing have a giant stain and you should
get a clean pair out of the drawer".

~~~
iamatworknow
I already have some built in sensors that let me know if there are stains on
my pants.

~~~
VLM
Mom, is that you? You're the only person I know with eyes in the back of her
head.

~~~
iamatworknow
Why don't you ever call me?

------
skue
Seems pretty clear to me that this is just an intitial step. Echo Look as is
may end up being very popular in its own right, but the end goal is probably
to move beyond evaluating your existing wardrobe, and eventually making
recommendations for clothing sold thru Amazon that you can try on virtually
right at home. We've had that for glasses for a while, and believe some
startups have already tried this for clothing.

Retail stores are shuttering at an increasing rate as things move online. But
buying clothes online requires supporting lots of returns. Imagine you work at
Amazon. You have an insane amount of computing power and very capable big data
teams. You are tasked with building up clothing sales and minimizing returns.
AR is on the horizon but not here yet.

So what could you release today to move towards your goals?

------
trimbo
For $200, it should always say "you look mahvellous dahling"

------
vlucas
Q: How do we get an always-on internet connected camera in the bedrooms of
attractive women?

A: Alexa Echo Look

~~~
TeMPOraL
Yeah, though Amazon gets to keep all the pictures for themselves.

------
lanewinfield
Ah yes, joining the 5% of startups attempting to recreate that scene from
"Clueless."
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNDubWJU0aU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNDubWJU0aU)

~~~
stuart78
That is the first thing I thought of as well. Giant 'mis-match!' dialog is the
best.

------
consultutah
I'm getting old or paranoid or both... This seems like a terrifying device to
have sitting randomly in my master closet.

~~~
usrusr
I started all on the paranoid side, but that is increasingly being blinded out
by feeling old. Very old.

------
morinted
This seems like a solution looking for a problem. I guess an always-on
internet microphone wasn't a big enough invasion of privacy, we need a camera
too.

~~~
SkyMarshal
>This seems like a solution looking for a problem.

That would characterize most of consumer IoT. Industrial IoT is more
interesting, but who needs their bathroom mirror ordering more razorblades for
them. All sorts of problems with that. Yet it's nevertheless being pushed by
big co's desperate for new revenue streams.

------
slivanes
Now when my wife asks me if a piece of clothing makes her look fat, I can
safely run out of the room and declare "Ask Alexa".

------
orng
So now Amazon (or whoever is in control of the device) not only has access to
voice recordings of everything that goes on in peoples homes, but also video.
What could possibly go wrong?

~~~
_pmf_
And remember that this is by the company that has a 600 million dollar
contract with the CIA[0]. Or in more accurate terms: the known upfront amount
is 600 million.

[0]
[https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/the-d...](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/the-
details-about-the-cias-deal-with-amazon/374632/)

~~~
dleslie
That's just a Conspiracy Theory^W^WFake News.

------
foob
I was initially a little bit confused by Amazon's attempt to disrupt the
mirror industry (and it seems like others in this thread are too). After
reading through everything, my best guess for the motivation is:

> Echo Look helps you discover new brands and styles inspired by your lookbook

This feels like a marketing vehicle for high-end clothing and accessories.
Maybe it's a way to leverage the reach of their Alexa ecosystem to compete
with the likes of Polyvore?

------
Ajedi32
Okay, so even privacy concerns aside and assuming this works as well as they
say, is there anyone who would actually find this sort of thing useful?

I mean, I'm normally pretty open-minded about products like this, but I'm
having trouble seeing the target market here. Are there really a significant
number of people out there who want to be able to browse their wardrobe on
their phones and get a computer to help them choose their outfit? (I honestly
don't know; fashion doesn't really interest me so I'm clearly outside their
target market.)

I wonder if Amazon's real motivation for this product may actually be to
create a better way to sell clothes online. Maybe once they get enough data
points they can start using AR to show you how you'd look wearing a particular
outfit or piece of clothing sold on amazon.com? Or maybe it will take your
measurements to help ensure the clothes you're ordering will fit you properly.
If so that might actually be useful; and would probably significantly increase
online sales of clothing.

~~~
non_sequitur
I don't think engineers are the target market for this product. There's a
reason the models in the ad are all women.

~~~
cthalupa
Women can't be engineers? Male engineers can't be concerned about looks?

~~~
brlewis
Male and female engineers are expected to avoid an appearance of being
concerned about looks. Lots of outside hobbies are accepted in the engineering
community, but not if your hobby is fashion. It shouldn't be this way, but it
is.

To lighten up my otherwise gloomy comment:
[http://dilbert.com/strip/1996-02-26](http://dilbert.com/strip/1996-02-26)

------
gopher2
Things that I value when purchasing and choosing clothes:

* I want to avoid lots of decision-making and info gathering.

* I want it to be simple to buy.

* I want not super expensive, somewhat stylish, somewhat innocuous, occasionally things that I find unique and cool.

This seems like it would make all that easier. Probably will not get one
because I don't care enough about the whole area, but I could see buying it if
I wanted to improve my personal style for whatever reason or was more focused
on being fashionable/stylish than I am at the moment.

Basically, Spotify Discovery Weekly for clothes. I doubt it will take off as
fast as the Echo and it has more flop potential, because "Semi-weird Camera in
your Closet" isn't as established a product category as "Radio in your
Kitchen" but I think it could take off and also not be some horrible distopian
thing.

An algorithm recommends easy-to-buy clothing for you based on a picture and
your personal taste... Okay cool!

------
tdonaghe
Remote Worker: Alexa, how does today's t-shirt and pajamas ensemble compare to
yesterday's t-shirt and pajamas ensemble?

Remote Worker: Given these two photos of me in different shirts, but the same
pajamas, which is more in style, and which is a better _fit_ for me, given my
personal style?

------
tabeth
One day people will look in horror as many didn't even need to be tricked to
give away their privacy and self worth. They just gave it away willingly.

------
drochetti
What I see here is a bunch of smart tech-savvy people that never took a
#lookoftheday pic and posted on Instagram and will never gonna buy the product
anyway talking about privacy. How do you know you are completely safe with
your phone, with your laptop? Fact is that there are _millions_ of people
posting "look of the day" on Instagram, Snapchat every day. Taking selfies in
front of the mirror in their bedroom and they just don't care. I bet they care
about a product that would make that easier and afaic Echo Look is promising
to deliver that. So I'm curious to see how the _actual target_ will respond to
the product.

~~~
amiga-workbench
My phone can only do EDGE and I don't pay for data. My laptop has the
microphone and webcam disconnected internally.

------
rchowe
They seem to imply that humans may see your Style Check photos (ostensibly
"our team of experienced fashion specialists" for machine learning purposes).
I'm wondering a bit if that team of fashion specialists is Mechanical Turk?

~~~
VLM
I'm wondering if your picture will appear in the amazon ads if Alexa
recognizes that new shirt as a recent order.

Also given that all the pixs in the ad are women, we can assume if Alexa sees
a little baby bulge and the other signs of pregnancy that your amazon
advertisements are about to take a huge swing to the maternity style.

------
d--b
I'm just hoping I'm dead before it's mandatory to own one of these.

------
iLoch
Is this the most thinly veiled spying device of all time?

~~~
yjftsjthsd-h
1984 taken as a howto strikes again?

~~~
eCa
Orwell was an optimist.

------
joezydeco
Amazon is trying to disrupt the Instagram Husband. I'm all for it.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFzKi-o4rHw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFzKi-o4rHw)

------
Bedon292
I definitely searched around to see if this was some late April fools thing,
or something like that. I just completely and totally do not understand this
product. Plus all the privacy concerns of it...

------
nebulous1
I'm fascinated by the fact that Amazon clearly did enough market research to
think that this will go down well, yet I wouldn't personally consider allowing
one in my home.

------
natch
Aside from the other abusive uses, Amazon can use this to recommend products
according to its own inventory management and profit margin needs.

Need to move an excess boatload of white sweatpants out of the system? Push
them with recommendations.

Got an item that has a sweet margin? Push it.

Not that this isn't already happening with product recommendations, but
positioning it as fashion advice is a new level.

------
k-mcgrady
Great. So my friend's homes, which have already been equipped with
microphones, will now be equipped with cameras.

~~~
mavdi
to be fair, all homes are equipped with those already. Everyone's got phones
and laptops.

------
jefe_
Feel like the people who would even desire this sort of fashion feedback
(young -> college-aged women) would rather use $200 to buy additional items to
wear. Much older than that and people have either developed a sense of
personal style or have decided they just don't care about clothes. Weird
product.

------
intoverflow2
Saw Benedict Evans comments on this:

>"Sensors plus machine learning replace keyboard/mouse/touch screen.
Camera/microphone as control surfaces."

Feel consistently SV/VC types are overhyping and misrepresenting what is
actually going on with products like this. The "Machine Learning" element of
this is basically just speech detection (as is the case with almost all these
assistant products) used as the equivalent of a wireless button or switch
press.

Even in the video we still see users having to swipe away at screens to do
anything beyond the button press. Feel SV/VC types are constantly
misrepresenting these button presses as the coming of Iron Mans Jarvis when
the reality is they're elaborate light clappers

I do think this is an interesting product but to hail it as machine learning
replacing UI is disingenuous

------
yohann305
It seems so obvious why hasn't Google Now done it already?

Is it because of security concerns that a home device can "spy" on you at all
times in your own home?

By the way, there's a new marketing approach that's been trending lately:
Instead of saying "this is a Alexa with a camera", they say what it's for:
"look your best".

Eventhough we all know adding a camera can do a lot more than just checking if
you look good in these clothes or not (ie security monitoring). Apple Watch
has been using the same technique lately. It's been focusing the Apple Watch
functionality mainly on sports, eventough it can do a lot more than just
sports.

Are you guys seeing the trend? Are you going to use it for your own products
and services?

I surely will try Cheers!

~~~
cptskippy
Google owns Nest and their cameras.

Beyond the basic motion detection where you can define areas of interest in
the Nest camera's field of view and it will notify you when it detects
movement. They've started using machine learning with them so it can
distinguish people and notify you when it sees a person. It is also pretty
good at not notifying you of false positives. I have one watching my front
yard and early on it would notify you of motion from cloud shadows or wind
shaking trees but it seems to have learned to ignore them now.

I look forward to them being able to identify UPS, FexEx and USPS delivery
vehicles dropping off packages.

------
israrkhan
From a privacy perspective, previously you had to be worried about Alexa
listening to your conversation, now you have to worry about it seeing and
listening you.

I am not saying that Amazon is snooping on its users. All i am saying is that
such devices are a prime target for hackers and government agencies. Recently
wikileaks showed that CIA was using Samsung Smart TVs for snooping on its
users[1]. Devices like this can are very attractive targets for government
agencies.

[1][https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/wikileaks-dump-shows-
cia...](https://theintercept.com/2017/03/07/wikileaks-dump-shows-cia-could-
turn-smart-tvs-into-listening-devices/)

------
dbg31415
I think they are trying to find ways to reduce returns on clothing here. Crazy
high percentages of clothing get returned... and why not? To be competitive
with retail stores, online stores have to offer free shipping and returns. Try
it on, if you don't like it... send it back. Very costly to the seller.

Having a bot tell you, "You are pear-shaped, don't use pants with pockets..."
or "This style isn't age appropriate..." \-- who knows how complex this can
grow. But to start just focus on simple rules every stylist knows; this should
help cut back on people buying stuff that looked good on the model, but that
they are statistically more likely to have to return.

~~~
aluhut
Except for people with the "I don't want to look like everybody else"
attitude.

I wonder how "friendly" it will end up being since the behavior of the usual
sales person in a shop is quite discrete.

I'll have to wait for reviews because I would never sacrifice my privacy in
such a way.

------
drochetti
What I see here is a bunch of smart tech-savvy people that never took a
#lookoftheday pic and posted on Instagram and will never gonna buy the product
anyway talking about privacy. How do you know you are completely safe with
your phone, with your laptop? Fact is that there are _millions_ of people
posting "look of the day" on Instagram, Snapchat every day. Taking selfies in
front of the mirror in their bedrooms and they just don't care. I bet they
care about a product that would make that easier and afaic Echo Look is
promising to deliver that. So I'm curious to see how the _actual target_ will
respond to the product.

------
archeantus
Watching that video semi-inspired me to become a person that had clothes worth
caring about and looking half-way decent on a day-to-day basis.

But then I looked down at my go-to fully-remote attire of a t-shirt and gym
shorts and thought "Nah..."

------
phreeza
Is Amazon even a serious competitor in fashion in the US? Here in Germany I
think they are dominated by other retailers as far as I can tell (it's about
the only vertical I can think of where that is the case)

~~~
Sargos
And how do you change that? You release a product like this.

------
always_good
I cringe at the thought of the "modern household" with Dash buttons scattered
around the house, Alexas/Echoes in a few rooms, a "Look Assistant" on every
dresser, and a slew of other IoT gimmicks fastened on walls and countertops,
around every ankle and wrist.

It's straight up tech addiction.

None of it is even impressive. The technology isn't there. And when the
technology does get there, I'd rather have it all available from a single
device I carry in my pocket, not across a bunch of gadgets that nickel and
dime away my attention.

------
omgwhat
Amazon.com We've seen your wiener.™

------
danso
I could see this being a great asset in a department store. Outside of the
privacy stalls in the dressing area, that is, and supplementing the part where
you walk out in a prospective outfit, get Look'ed, and then use the store iPad
to view the photos/video/panorama.

But I don't see the need for home use, at least with the tradeoff in privacy
versus what I can already do with my bedroom mirror. I'm not usually making
purchasing decisions when getting dressed for the weekday.

------
dsalzman
While I'm not a fan of Amazon controlling a webcam in my bedroom it would be
nice to tell my SO to ask Alexa the next time she asks for wardrobe advice.

------
benmmurphy
I was looking for something like this but in the form of a mirror and it would
give me feedback as to who is the fairest of them all.

------
uxp100
I kinda wonder how well this will work. My experience with the echo is that it
understands my voice and questions very poorly, far worse than Google's
assistant on phones. I've never tried google home.

I guess identifying a person in a photo and checking if colors and patterns
are "in" is easier than NLP. Certainly won't have feedback on fit though.

------
deegles
Amazon has in-house fashion lines. Think of the data!

Clothing brands would kill for this sort of insight into what people are
_actually_ wearing.

~~~
cing
It's a useful source of data, but consumers who invest in high fashion
typically post looks on Instagram, often daily, that are littered with
phototags identifying brands. The data is out there...

------
ReedJessen
I really like how this product has SO MANY use cases but they have picked just
one to go to market with. More will come later. But for now, it just helps you
pick you clothes.

This is good because it keeps you expectations low so you will be pleasantly
surprised when it does something else.

They did this with the Echo as well. It was just an egg timer at first and
played music.

------
melling
Of course the obvious thing we all did was freak out about privacy, etc.
They'll soon be pulling video from the crime scene.

Anyway, can some of the HN crowd take the sunny day case (assume we'll
properly address privacy), and discuss interesting uses of this technology?
Image recognition and shopping? Show it want you want to buy, for example.

------
draw_down
OK, see, I can actually understand the utility of this and it seems like a
good idea! As opposed to just the plain Alexa, which seems quite a bit less
useful. Very interesting for Amazon to go after the style/fashion set. I mean
it still has all the same privacy implications, I'm just speaking of the
actual utility of the thing.

------
alphabettsy
I'm sure some people (probably quite a few) want this things, but I don't want
one anywhere near me.

------
eclipxe
Reading the comments here, all I can hear is:

"No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."

My wife's reaction:

"That looks pretty neat. I wonder how well the styling advice part works, but
the camera is cool. Fashion bloggers would probably really like it. There are
so many people that do a “outfit of the day” type thing"

~~~
AlexandrB
This device and use-case are fine and fulfill a real need. The hidden cost of
using it is moving the overton window on privacy another notch closer to
"panopticon".

I wonder what will be the limit for users?

------
chadlavi
Bad Idea Jeans

------
mtw
Can this device be used for hands-free video conference?

Also can you use it for home monitoring ? Like a baby cam

~~~
intoverflow2
> Like a baby cam

What could possibly go wrong...

------
soylentcola
Too bad it's $200, otherwise it might have had some potential as an
inexpensive depth camera to tinker with (although there isn't much detail
regarding how "depth aware" it is compared to something like a RealSense
camera or a Kinect).

------
ghobs91
I'm willing to bet this is their first step towards eventually being able to
show you how outfits will look on you without needing to try them on. Thus
eliminating one of the last remaining reasons people buy clothes at brick and
mortar stores.

------
rglover
Just gonna leave this here...

[https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Narcissism-American-
Diminishi...](https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Narcissism-American-Diminishing-
Expectations/dp/0393307387)

~~~
cdubzzz
Maybe this would be more appropriate...

[http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-culture-of-narcissism-
ch...](http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-culture-of-narcissism-christopher-
lasch/1122989164)

------
andz
This looks very very strange. I can see the appeal of the regular Echo, but
this..?

~~~
Kiro
One possibility is to enforce opinions like yours. In the light of this all of
a sudden Echo isn't as strange in comparison. It's a way of normalizing Echo
by releasing something more "outrageous".

------
zitterbewegung
With the Alexa they were able to get around the always on monitoring . Not
sure about this device but it feels like that Amazon is making things
palatable to the consumer like . It's like a consumerist Brave New World.

------
cyphunk
Will add this video to the list of videos with overly "positive" music that
grossly underestimate peoples suspicion. Others on that list: google glasses
release advert, apple developers wwdc 2014 intro video

------
junkilo
Story: As an engineer that enjoys fashion but has limited time for the hobby I
would like an app that can help me self-evaluate fashion choices and
arrangements so that I can have more fun and look better.

how'd I do?

------
_pdp_
Well I hope it is secure.

------
elipsey
Super, we can add "appropriate dress" to our "citizen scores." No more lime
green spandex tube tops at the grocery store, or your credit rating will go
down.

------
sulam
I'm glad to see Amazon trying things that are so obviously going to crash and
burn. It's impressive that they're willing to take this level of risk.

------
habosa
Product utility aside, I'm willing to bet a lot that this results in at least
one PR nightmare.

Can't wait till it decides a turban is a bad addition to an outfit.

------
hackerews
This plus their fast fashion manufacturing lets amazon end-to-end take over
fashion. Get clothing recs, have it delivered tomorrow.

Will be interesting to see if it sticks.

------
mring33621
Related: new Alexa skill which, when your new look exceeds a certain threshold
of hotness, will automatically upload the image to your Tinder profile.

------
nbar1
I think people might be missing a use case... It will map your exact body type
and then allow you to try on clothes with AR through your phone screen.

------
xienze
It's absolutely incredible to me that a device made to drive sales can itself
be sold for $200. Furthermore, people will actually pay that much.

~~~
PKop
Perhaps to establish a "beta" period for earlier adopters, with a plan to
lower the price in the future?

------
cptskippy
I wonder if they'll open this up to 3rd parties or if they're planning to
launch their own service to compete with the likes of StitchFix.

------
d--b
I'm not sure that it is such a good idea that the first seconds of the video
are filmed as if it was taken from an intruder in a bad movie.

------
ChrisLTD
This seems like it would be a good companion Alexa product at around $100. I'm
afraid the use-case is too specific for $200.

------
ganfortran
Already a better idea than most SV startups

------
Keyframe
I'm interested in hearing what it will say when it will be asked - 'Alexa, do
I look fat in this?'

------
awqrre
Everyone will end up looking the same. And of course owning this device is a
bad idea for many other reasons...

------
PKop
Built for a future integration with MTailor-like technology, to completely
destroy in-person mall shopping?

------
blahfuk
Can anyone with more machine learning expertise explain: Will this actually
work well? Seems like a gimic

------
benarent
I've recently built a Slack Doorbell using a Cheap D-Link Webcam and a AWS IoT
Button. The one thing that surprised me was the lack of a good internet
enabled camera, the D-Link basically has basic AUTH and for capturing photos
is the same username and password as for remote. Does anyone know of a good
and secure RESTFUL Internet Connected camera?

------
teamhappy
I don't know much about fashion but I feel like wearable WiFi jammers are up
and coming.

------
tomc1985
Technology, filtered through the desires of nontechnicals, just looks uglier
and uglier

------
PascLeRasc
I see Amazon had a slow internet connection uploading their April Fool's
video.

------
ipunchghosts
I think that this will sell like hotcakes this Christmas for teens. Bravo!

------
sparkling
Soooo... its a $200 mirror?

------
silveira
If this worked more like a remote camera for my pet I would be on board.

------
return0
I would expect the next batch of iphones or androids to replicate this.

------
sathley
Is this what the world really needs right now?

------
omgwhat
Amazon.com Always friendly, always watching.™

------
emidln
Alexa, please don't blackmail me.

------
jinxedID
Is it April 1st again?

------
ankurdhama
Amazon, don't you think its a bit late for the April fool's joke?

------
nepotism2016
throw it against the wall and see what sticks?

------
schintan
machine learning..of course.

------
foxhedgehog
seems dystopian

------
accountyaccount
Machine learning for fashion advice sounds hilarious to me.

~~~
dboreham
Yes that does make your ass look big, to a 90% confidence level.

