
USPS sells nearly $20B worth of money orders a year - saadalem
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/check_postalmosprocqtr.htm
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8bitsrule
In the US, it was possible to do banking at the Post Office until the 1960s.
Given the crappy reputation of the 'Payday Lending' type services, there've
been many suggestions in recent years to make it possible to bank at Post
Offices again.

This would end one part of the deliberate gutting of public services (and the
sorry outcomes which usually result). And it would give the PO another source
of revenue for services ... which in my estimation would a terrific thing.
Once the USPO is gone, watch out.

ADDED: According to Bloomberg (in 2013), "Banks have shut 1,826 branches since
late 2008, and 93 percent of closings were in postal codes where the household
income is below the national median, according to census and federal banking
data compiled by Bloomberg."
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-02/post-
cras...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-02/post-crash-branch-
closings-hit-hardest-in-poor-u-s-areas)

~~~
Thorentis
Many branchless banks have partnered with AusPost to allow banking at any
AusPost branch (of which there are many). And all for free! You can deposit,
withdraw (within limits) send money, exchange currency, pay bills, etc. The US
banking system seems so far behind, and for one of the world's largest
economies it's laughable.

~~~
8bitsrule
Many events in the US since 1980 are certainly laughable from a foreign
perspective, and to many of us, more than painful from a native one. But watch
as the pendulum swings.

(I'm not in a position to understand what 'all for free' means, but I've
learned to be skeptical about that assertion. 'Until when?' for example.)

~~~
Thorentis
I agree that "until when" is usually a good caveat to keep in mind, but in
this case branchless banks basically have to offer free services somehow,
since banks with branches don't charge for any of those things. So in order to
incentivise people to join, offering an alternative way to bank that is not
any more expensive is a must. This is especially true for elderly people that
prefer to bank in person. I never go into a bank unless I want to withdraw or
deposit large amounts of cash, and prefer to hand cash over to a human than
trusting an ATM not to stuff something up.

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burlesona
One of the most annoying things is that some US government agencies still
require payment via money order. For example, we were not able to get our
daughter’s birth certificate without paying via MO. That turned out to be the
most inconvenient $20 I’ve ever scrounged up.

~~~
techsupporter
Before TransferWise became widely available, and would have mitigated this, I
needed to get a birth record from the civil registry (Standesamt) in
Kaiserslautern, Germany. I had the option of using wire transfer, for a $35
international wire fee from my credit union.

Alternatively, I suppose owing to K-town's long association with the US
military, I could mail them a USPS money order. Not an "international money
order," a regular USPS "Postal Money Order" denominated in US dollars. For
$1.25, it was no contest.

~~~
Danieru
TransferWise is incredible. It was cheaper for me to take USD in my account,
forex it to Yen, send the Yen to transferwise when paying a co-creator in USD.
Sending a USD swift transfer would skip 2 forex transactions yet TransferWise
is still cheaper.

~~~
HeavenFox
I'm curious to learn why this is the case. Does your transfer involve non-US
account? If both accounts are in the U.S. there are bank accounts that don't
charge wire fee, or you can use Zelle / Venmo / FB Messenger / Square Cash and
avoid paying altogether if the amount is small.

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Despegar
The Federal Reserve should buy a bunch of stamps from the USPS if Congress
won't bail it out.

~~~
tantalor
The fed doesn't just give away money... they can only loan money out, which
had to be repaid later.

~~~
morpheuskafka
What OP is saying would not be "giving away" anything. The stamps would be an
appreciating investment (the value of a Forever stamp increases every time the
postal rates increase) and could be sold or used at any time.

~~~
hhfy5332
Postage rate increases are capped to inflation, though. So they don't really
appreciate.

But it wouldn't ever lose value and could inject some cash into the USPS.

~~~
dmurray
They likely have a better implied return than Treasuries and many corporate
bonds though, and people invest trillions of dollars in those. Risk-free
investments that beat inflation aren't easy to find.

There are some issues with postage stamps as an investment, though. They're
not as liquid as T-bills, though if they become a popular investment that
problem solves itself. More worrying is that the USPS is not quite as reliable
a borrower as the US federal government - can you really be certain this would
never lose value? I'd like to see where the bond ratings agencies would rate
USPS stamps.

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knodi123
What's really weird is that I don't know anyone who's ever bought one. It must
be really confined to specific cultures or economic classes.

~~~
tjohns
I've used them for four main reasons:

1) You're paying for something already going through the mail (e.g. sending a
form to the government).

You can usually send a check, but some banks don't issue checkbooks anymore.

2) You're sending a payment to an individual online (e.g. eBay, Craigslist),
and who won't accept online payments. Some merchants do accept PayPal, but
raise the price to account for the merchant fee; a money order may be
significantly cheaper for large purchases.

If it's a scam, it also becomes mail fraud and you have the Postal Inspection
Service on your side.

3) You need to make a deposit payment to someone like a landlord. They often
won't accept checks, because they can bounce. Money orders and cashiers checks
are sometimes the only accepted payment. Of the two, a money order is usually
cheaper than a cashier's check.

~~~
greenyoda
> a money order is usually cheaper than a cashier's check

My bank (one of the big U.S. banks) issues cashier's checks for free if you
have an account there - you just hand them a withdrawal slip and they'll give
you the check instead of cash. (I just have a basic checking account, not some
kind of fancy "premier relationship" with my bank.)

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maxwell
Peaked at $60B in Q1 2001.

Edit: Looking again, appears _items_ peaked at 60B, dollar value peaked at $9B
in Q1 2007 (but inflation).

~~~
gowld
That column is 60M orders. The dollar amount was $30B.

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raincom
In other words, $20B is untraceable to origin. Not bad, considering how much
physical currency in circulation $20B/330M population = $60 per capita. Uncle
Sam must be happy.

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EE84M3i
Why is this surprising?

~~~
teruakohatu
It is surprising that in the day and age of online/phone banking so much money
is transferred via. the post office. Postal orders have stopped being used in
many other countries. My country (NZ) stopped them in 1986.

In New Zealand every few months another bank stops issuing and accepting
checks.

~~~
drocer88
Some people in the U.S. don't have bank accounts and may need to pay a bill.

~~~
thecureforzits
More like many. About 6.5% of US households do not have a bank account.
There's also the concept of the "under-banked", which covers people who have
them but still use non-bank fiscal implements such as payday loans and money
orders. That number is about 19% of US households.

[https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/](https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/)

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codezero
Curious if there are any obvious reasons for the total value to rise from
3bn/q to 7bn/q only to stabilize around 5bn in 2010?

~~~
dubcanada
Competition? MoneyGram and Western Union kind of picked up then.

~~~
protomyth
It's easier to go to Walmart and get a MoneyGram money order. I would imagine
that is the biggest competition. I'm also pretty sure Walmart is cheaper.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Walmart money orders are about $1 cheaper than USPS money orders, but there
are geographies where USPS is more convenient than Walmart for purchasing or
cashing said money orders (my local post office is closer than a Walmart, for
example).

Also, USPS money orders never expire. Those from other providers start to
incur fees after a duration of time.

~~~
projektfu
Wal-mart often also has bilingual employees and the post office may not, in my
experience.

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Something1234
I for one am glad that the postal service sells money orders especially if I'm
out at strip mall sushi place with a broken credit card machine and I don't
have cash, but there's a post office nearby to get a money order to pay the
bill. (This actually happened).

~~~
mrtnmcc
According to the USPO website, they don't accept credit cards anymore to
purchase a MO but they do accept debit.

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rasengan
Lots of money laundering it sounds like.

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supernova87a
I would hope that the Fed is investigating (along with FBI/SS/etc), but there
is a whole lot of shady shit happening through money orders and gift cards
these days...

~~~
kccqzy
If you are referring to people gaming the credit card points/rewards system
using gift cards and money orders, I don't think there's anything shady about
that.

If you actually think people are doing that for money laundering, now that
probably deserves an investigation but I doubt money launderers are dumb
enough to use money orders.

~~~
Spooky23
Postal money orders are probably pretty low fraud targets given their
relationship to the federal government and pretty harsh penalties,

Gift cards are a whole other universe. There are many many grifts, from
scammers looking to rip off people, to moving cash, avoiding payroll taxes, or
other frauds. There’s a pretty active market online for gift cards from places
like Home Depot or Walmart.

~~~
gonesilent
People are paying employees in gift cards to avoid payroll taxes.....reminds
me of the Nevada guy who was paying employees in face value of gold coins.

