

Ask HN: Anyone using Blekko instead of Google? - rkalla

With all the anti-Google sentiment welling up, there are usually a post or two about DDG popping up, but I hear almost nothing about blekko (http://blekko.com/) anymore after their launch and subsequent coverage on TC in 2010.<p>The few times I have tried raw Blekko (basic search no tweaks with slash tags) it seemed like very comprehensive search results, but they werent ordered to my preferences so I found myself digging to page 4 or 5 before finding what I wanted. I dont know if Google's personalization is just that good or their search is that good.<p>Is anyone using them? Is anyone giving Google search a run for its money?
======
TheBurningOr
I tried Blekko for a bit this past fall and was not terribly impressed. I,
frankly, don't understand what the /slash notation is doing. is it a filter?
Is it a specific type of search?

However, I have been using DuckDuckGo almost exclusively for the past 2 months
and I'm not sure that I'll be going back anytime soon. DDG is touted as being
for the privacy conscious, but I can't say that was my primary motivation in
switching. I have been increasingly unhappy with Google's 'bubbling' and my
searches there increasingly felt like I was running in circles through crappy
mailing list archives and spam sites and all their new 'features.'

DDG brought back memories of what drew me to Google in the first place, over a
decade ago. It is clean, straightforward, and relevant. Yeah, I know it's
running on Yahoo Search APIs which are running on Bing, but it's still a
drastically different search experience.

Finally, doing a bit of research into DDGs extras and the !bang notation pages
kind of sealed the deal for me. Want to know your IP address? just search "ip"
Want lorem ipsum text, just search for that. Want to search the python
documentation? Just use !python. Want to re-run your last search in Google?
Just add !g Those features alone are enough to make it a true power user's
search engine.

~~~
dmoy
Just to be devil's advocate here, everything you list seems to be easy to do
using any web browser (since we're talking about power users here):

>Want to know your IP address? just search "ip"

<https://www.google.com/search?q=ip>

\--> Your public IP address is 123.456.789.>256? - Learn more

>Want lorem ipsum text, just search for that

Ok that's pretty cool.

>Want to search the python documentation

For me this is a language other than python, but I have queries in
chrome/opera that search by keyword. C++ is c<space>stuff, java is j<space>
stuff. As an added benefit, for any internal documentation I can have keywords
going directly to internal stuff.

>Want to re-run your last search in Google

Ditto with bing b<space>, amazon a<space>, etc.

As a 'power user' my needs go way beyond what any search engine does. Web
browser, scripts, etc pick up the slack.

Also, am I missing something here? Everyone keeps mentioning that DDG runs off
of Bing. Do they do anything in the interim to your queries, or do you get the
same results by going to bing.com? And if so, is everyone just arguing that
bing's results are better than Google's now? (Could be, I dunno).

It is kinda cool that you get wolfram results, etc (wherever they pulled lorem
ipsum from for example) all compiled for you instead of having to keyword
everything I guess.

And that's enough rambling, sleep.

------
btubbs
I hadn't heard of Blekko, so I Googled it, but I accidentally typed it
"blekki". Google autocorrected it, and Blekko was still the top result.

That didn't happen on Blekko. I got a lot of results about Bill Lekki. Then a
few minutes later the results changed and the Wikipedia page for Blekko was
the top result. Weird.

~~~
rkalla
Looks like the Blekko team was watching this thread and probably the traffic
in-bound from it and (maybe) tweaking on the fly.

------
drostie
I've been using Scroogle for a while, which just aggregates Google searches to
its own IPs so that you remain anonymous to Google. There are four problems
with Scroogle, not necessarily easy to solve:

(1) No Google Maps. Honestly I'll probably keep using Google Maps whatever
else happens. I could give up Gmail and I'd still keep Google Maps. (2) No
Google Calculator. This would be more important if Google hadn't changed their
calculator app over the past couple of years, making it much more
difficult/useless for unit conversions. Still, it would be nice if I could get
Google Calculator results through Scroogle, and it shouldn't be _that_ hard.
(3) No image searches. This is one big reason to use Blekko right now; it is
not Google Images and it has a nice image search which can be activated from
the search line. (4) Scroogle keeps going down. This is Google's fault; Google
should have whitelisted Scroogle as not-a-bot and supported their endeavor.
Over the past months the problem has been that Google thinks Scroogle is a
bot; but every couple of months there's also a time-frame where Google changes
the antiquated search pages which Scroogle queries to make its searches.

For all that, I still like Scroogle and will probably continue to use it for
the next couple of months. But Blekko is where I go when I want to do an image
search.

------
pilom
The SEO links on Blekko are really useful but I could never go without my
!bang syntax. DDG and chrome are my default with google just a !g away.

~~~
w1ntermute
You can set this up at the browser level to work with any sort of search. Look
up Firefox Quick Searches (a similar thing exists in Chrome).

------
notatoad
what's blekko?

"all the anti-google sentiment" is nonsense. it's not really anti-google.
people get emotional about products and companies they care about. the people
who whine about every little change google makes are the same ones who whine
about every little change facebook makes: the biggest fans of those products.

~~~
somestuff
No its rather apt in my opinion.

[http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB1000142405297020462420...](http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052970204624204577176964003660658-lMyQjAxMTAyMDIwNTEyNDUyWj.html)

"Google acknowledged in the settlement that it had improperly and knowingly
assisted online pharmacy advertisers allegedly based in Canada to run
advertisements for illicit pharmacy sales targeting U.S. customers."

Oh hello whats this? Google execs knowingly assisting illegal operations
peddling illicit drugs from manufactures unknown? Since when does their 'lets
not be evil overlords' policy include knowingly taking cash to help peddle
drugs coming from illicit sources.

"By the end of the operation in mid-2009, agents were buying Google ads for
sites purportedly selling such prescription-only narcotics as oxycodone and
hydrocodone. Agents also got Google's sales office in China to approve a site
selling Prozac and Valium to U.S. customers without a prescription.

"Google's employees were instrumental in bypassing policy regarding pharmacy
verification," Mr. Whitaker told the Journal. "The websites were blatantly
illegal."

At the agents' direction, Mr. Whitaker said he signaled his illegal intent to
Google ad executives, including Google's top manager in Mexico. As a tape
recorder ran, he walked Google executives through the illegal parts of the
websites. He said he told ad executives that U.S. Customs had seized
shipments, for example, and that one client wanted to be "the biggest steroid
dealer in the United States.""

Seriously what the fuck? The anti-google sentiment is nonsense?

"The government's case also contained potentially embarrassing allegations
that top Google executives, including co-founder Larry Page, were told about
legal problems with the drug ads.

Mr. Page, now Google's chief executive, knew about the illicit conduct, said
Mr. Neronha, the U.S. attorney for Rhode Island who led the multiagency
federal task force that conducted the sting. "We simply know from the
documents we reviewed and witnesses we interviewed that Larry Page knew what
was going on," he said in an interview after the August settlement.

Mr. Neronha declined to detail the evidence, which was presented in secret to
a federal grand jury. Other people familiar with the case said internal emails
showed Sheryl Sandberg, a former top Google executive who left in 2008 for
Facebook Inc., had raised concerns about the ads."

I'm sure it was just a rogue employee of one of their far off subsids, oh wait
nevermind I guess it went to the top, lulz. Sorry for posting so much of the
article but your simple ignorant line deserves all the filth contained in the
url, I'd rather not depend on you clicking to read it.

The actions listed in that article even at their most innocent leaves me with
such a foul feeling that it can be nothing else but Evil.

~~~
kennywinker
I agree with the sentiment, but "Google execs knowingly assisting illegal
operations peddling illicit drugs from manufactures unknown?"

I think it's more like Google knowingly helping people bypass the
pharmaceutical equivalent of DVD Region-coding.

The drugs people were buying were the same stuff you guys get down there in
the states, they were just available for cheaper because Canadians pay less
for drugs. It's also my understanding that Canada has stricter regulations on
drug safety than the US, so your portrayal seems a bit FUD-y.

From wikipedia (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacy#Internet_pharmacy>)

"Canada is home to dozens of licensed internet pharmacies, many of which sell
their lower-cost prescription drugs to U.S. consumers, who pay one of the
world's highest drug prices.[11] In recent years, many consumers in the US and
in other countries with high drug costs, have turned to licensed internet
pharmacies in India, Israel and the UK, which often have even lower prices
than in Canada. In the United States, there has been a push to legalize
importation of medications from Canada and other countries, in order to reduce
consumer costs. While in most cases importation of prescription medications
violates Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations and federal laws,
enforcement is generally targeted at international drug suppliers, rather than
consumers. There is no known case of any U.S. citizens buying Canadian drugs
for personal use with a prescription, who has ever been charged by
authorities."

~~~
somestuff
When medication does not go through legit supply channels you cannot trust the
product, accountability is gone. Trusting illicit pharma spammers to source
legit medication is laughable.

Edit: Not laughable, horrific and sad.

~~~
kennywinker
I don't want to conflate the whole Canadian pharmacy thing with criminal
activities related to buying drugs online. The fact is there are Canadian
pharmacies that are licensed by the gov., and only sell legit products, and
they do it online. As a Canadian, if I buy them it's basically the same as
popping down to the Pharmaprix and shopping there.

If an American buys from one of them they are making a safe purchase IMO, but
breaking drug importation laws put in place more to protect the bottom lines
of drug companies then to protect the consumer.

Now if a canadian or an american buys drugs online without reasonable
assurances they're dealing with a reputable company... well that is
stupid/sad/dangerous as you said.

~~~
somestuff
That is where Google crossed the line into being evil, bypassing their own
internal checks and regulations accepting cash for ads to sites that never
were associated with any real pharmacy or any product at all. Judging by
Glavmed's success and shadier sites with shop fronts calling themselves
"Canadian" this is totally not isolated to one paid snitch.

These rogue pharmas source from India for generics, wherever they can to buy
branded narcotics, and lord knows where for counterfeit opiates/benzos. Real
Canadian pharmacies used to be more directly involved selling to the US,
including narcotics, but that was years ago. The dirty bit is not at the
pharmacy selling to people with prescriptions but those knowingly diverting to
unscripted use, or the mules who use doctors to fill out scripts that then get
sold. Then at the pharma affiliate networks paying spammers for traffic.
Spammers paying google for adverts pointing to shop fronts. GOOGLE ACCEPTING
CASH AND BYPASSING THEIR CHECKS THAT SEE IF ALL THE ACTORS MENTIONED
PREVIOUSLY ARE LEGIT who then post the adverts to the shop fronts who may or
may not be listed as Canadian who may or may not be sourcing via legal means
from what may or may not be a Canadian pharmacy.

Krebsonsecurity.com has multiple write-ups on these types of operations which
use advertisers like Google for traffic. In this case though Google employees
at multiple levels went beyond just being a provider of traffic to being an
co-partner in the conspiracy.

------
yalimkgerger
Funny you asked. I signed up couple of days ago, deciding that slash tags
should be the best way to get rid of all the crap in google's search results.
I was a little confused though. Does Blekko expect me to choose which slash
tag I want to use for my query? If that is the case, I think it will be hard
for them to go mainstream. I can do it, no problem. But an average user will
not be able to. I was expecting some sort of an intelligent algorithm which
would decide which slash tags to use with my query. I think it all should be
seamless to the user. They should curate the slash tags themselves and apply
them to the search queries when relevant.

They've been around for a while. So I think it is fair to expect more powerful
features from them. Color me worried. It would be a shame if they don't get
more momentum. I think their idea of slash tags is a killer one. I just think
they have not implemented enough or going to the wrong direction.

To sum up: 1) slash tags are just brilliant. 2) slash tags should be seamless
to the user and be applied by Blekko automatically to each search query. 3)
They should build their own slash tags, not relying on crows sourced ones.
They should go crazy about this. Doesn't seem like they are. 4) More power to
them. I love them

~~~
greglindahl
Have you tried blekko? We suggest slashtags as you type, we suggest more
slashtags after you've searched, and we often automatically add slashtags to
your search if you didn't specify one. Most of the /blekko slashtags (the most
visible) ones are build by a combination of our in-house content team, and
subject-matter experts -- the /health slashtag has an outside editor who's a
medical librarian at a major teaching hospital.

Great suggestions! :-)

~~~
yalimkgerger
Yes I did. And I will continue using it. I guess my point is that a user
should not even be aware of the fact that you use slash tags. I mean who cares
what technology you use to give better results? Let that be a power user
thing.

I also don't get the Facebook integration. Especially in your case. Your focus
is on great content. Facebook is junk as far as content is concerned. Before
Facebook I used to receive stupid emails with links to funny videos, cartoons
and jokes that I'd immediately delete. I have not been receiving them for a
few years because all of that stupidity went to Facebook, thank God. What
valuable result do you expect to retrieve from there?

Given Blekko's focus on content quality and relevancy, I'd expect integration
with Twitter if you really feel like you must do something on that front. Or
integration with anything that people subscribe to for great content. RSS
feeds come to mind. I don't know if this is possible but an integration with
Google Reader would be beneficial for me. You may also try to add social
features to your site such as an RSS reader that you can use to integrate to
your search results. Again, I don't think this is such a big deal but if you
are spending resources on integrating to Facebook, you might be better off
spending them on integration with Twitter and the like.

Just my two cents. Like I said, I love you guys and I think categorizing and
curating content on the Internet is the way to go.

~~~
greglindahl
You can turn any search result into an rss feed with /rss, and put that into
Google Reader or your favorite rss reader (I use NewsBlur.) This works best
with date-sorted searches.

If you survey your friends about Facebook, you'll find that many of them like
the idea of seeing their friends' likes and comments in searches. Personally,
I don't like it, so I clicked "No Facebook" in the prefs.

~~~
yalimkgerger
Turning search results into RSS feeds pretty cool but it is something entirely
different. What I meant was, to include the pages in my RSS feeds I am
subscribed to, to the search you are doing just like you include Facebook to
your search.

Regarding Facebook integration. Can you give me a use case where this
integration is helpful and improves the search results? I don't think the
survey argument is a valid one because our friends are usually not qualified
enough to make an informed decision on this.

~~~
greglindahl
Ah, we've run some experiments with that kind of RSS or history search, but
haven't shipped anything.

The use case for Facebook is people who want to search for stuff their friends
like. As I said, that's not me, and you said it wasn't you, but you probably
know some friends for whom that sort of thing matters.

------
ElbertF
I was surprised to finally see my own blog showing up in the results when I
googl-, err, searched for my own name. But then I searched for "name /blog"
and my blog disappeared. It did however show an irrelevant GitHub page with a
pull request I once submitted. So it seems to work for rough searches but
refining needs some... Refining. I won't be making the switch today.

~~~
greglindahl
Assuming you mean elbertf.com, I filed a bug. We did recognize it as a
WordPress blog, but for some reason the front page is getting a poor rank with
/blog and is OK without it. BTW, you can send bug reports like this to
support@blekko.com.

~~~
ElbertF
Thanks, that's the one!

------
thegyppo
Alexa data would suggest that their popularity is increasing:
<http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/blekko.com#>

I really like some of their services like "Grep the Web" however I'm too used
to Google to change (plus I don't see any other search engine drive anywhere
near the volume they do).

~~~
Achshar
alexa is HIGHLY unreliable. you might as well ask duckduckgo about blekko's
performance.

------
jiyinyiyong
I tried to use it months ago while I found Google was slow here. But Blekko's
Chinese search results are quite bad.

~~~
greglindahl
We're concentrating on the US and English for now. A startup can only do so
much, so fast.

~~~
NipponBill
Using it from Japan I had some issues as well. Even in English it's not quite
global yet. I guess Blekko might be good to see what's going on in the US
market...

------
Intermediate
I tried to use blekko, but I found their search results not very relevant.
However I using them from time to time just to show my support and to check if
there is any improvement in search relevance.

~~~
greglindahl
Our last big step up in relevance was launched on December 15, have you tried
us since?

------
gootik
I find it a little ironic that I had to Google "Blekko". Aside from this,
Blekko's results are not as good as Google. For me at least.

~~~
greglindahl
We'd love to hear your feedback at support@blekko.com, thanks!

------
zaknanny
What are Blekko's thoughts on 'do no evil'? If they get popular, would they
fall into the same trap that Google has, or would they stay pure?

~~~
rkalla
This is an impossible-to-answer question. I do NOT speak for the Blekko
company, but while they are small and making $100,000s or millions it is easy
to say "We are free, no spying!" (same for DDG).

As soon as you take Blekko public and they are making _BILLIONS_ and beholden
to stock holders, they won't have a choice but to slowly roll that back just
like we are seeing with Google.

The market won't let Google stay ambivalent; not with all that potential for
profit.

------
zeroboy
Yes, I use Blekko regularly. I'm often (but not always) pleasantly surprised
with it's search results.

The slashes take some getting used to, but Blekko is worth an honest go.

