
Five years with Rust - doppp
http://words.steveklabnik.com/five-years-with-rust
======
Buttons840
I don't know Rust very well, but hope to learn it better soon. steveklabnik is
the only person from the Rust team I recognize by name. He's always leaving
detailed and positive replies in Rust related forums across the Internet.
Thanks for all your hard work Steve.

~~~
StavrosK
I'm also always positively surprised by the people in the #rust-beginners IRC
channel. No matter how dumb my question is, someone will _always_ helpfully
point me to the relevant documentation. They're so helpful that sometimes I
worry that I'm inconveniencing them with my incessant questions.

~~~
steveklabnik
It’s no inconvenience! That’s why we’re there :)

~~~
gaurangagg
Wow! I will join the IRC channel right away. I always wanted to learn and
explore Rust.

------
doomrobo
The Rust project would be very different without Steve's efforts. One of the
greatest things about the project is the coherence, clarity, rigor, and ease-
of-use of the documentation system. The Rust Book has also been a massive aid
in attracting new users. I only hope that Steve continues to lend his talent
to the project in the future.

~~~
aaron-lebo
Every great language needs a Steve.

If you don't read anything else programming related next year, read the Rust
book. Even if you don't need Rust, there's a lot you can learn from it.

[https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/second-edition/](https://doc.rust-
lang.org/book/second-edition/)

~~~
ksec
While it is great that Rust has Steve, sadly this is at the cost of Ruby
Rails. I wonder if he will ever comes back to the Ruby communities.

~~~
steveklabnik
I still really love Ruby! I come to conferences sometimes. There's just not
enough hours in the day.

------
madez
> Five years in, I think my journey has been successful so far. I’m proud of
> how far Rust has come. That said, there’s a lot more work to do. I’m still
> committed as ever to getting that work done, (...)

It's good to hear that people behind Rust intent to continue working on Rust.
One thing I'm missing, however, is what exactly is considered important to be
solved. There are many things how Rust could be made more viable or attractive
for a variety of scenarios.

For example, I don't consider it important to be able to compile Rust to
JavaScript, because I don't think JavaScript is a good thing.

On the other hand, downstream packaging of Rust and libraries is important.
There are scenarios where rustup and cargo are not acceptable. Is this on the
radar?

Another issue is target/host support and independent implementations. Rusts
only Tier 1 platforms are of the backdoored x86-family. Is this not considered
an issue to be solved to make the world a better place?

I don't intent to blame, shame or finger-point anybody, but just point out
critical remarks that come to mind.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> For example, I don't consider it important to be able to compile Rust to
> JavaScript, because I don't think JavaScript is a good thing.

Seems to be confusion here between "I'm not interested in using that
technology" and "Nobody should use that technology".

If you're saying the first, fine. I often feel that way too, it's not that
important a statement since you can just not use it and move on.

Someone has to do Javascript though: targeting the web browser client is
important and here to stay although it is evolving, and wasm is part of that
evolution.

If you're saying the second then that's not in line with existing reality. The
ship has sailed on whether we're going to have apps running in the browser or
not.

~~~
StavrosK
> Someone has to do Javascript though: targeting the web browser client is
> important and here to stay although it is evolving, and wasm is part of that
> evolution.

WebAssembly has nothing to do with Javascript, though. I don't think that's
what the GP means.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> WebAssembly has nothing to do with Javascript

They are different VMs in the browser alongside each other, I was wrong about
that (1)

However, this comment says more about the ways that they are and aren't
equivalent (2)

Both are for "targeting the web browser client" so they have that in common,
and a lot of the logic about their place in the world is therefore the same
for both of them.

1)
[https://github.com/WebAssembly/design/issues/219](https://github.com/WebAssembly/design/issues/219)

2)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15982036](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15982036)

~~~
steveklabnik
> They are different VMs in the browser alongside each other

My understanding is that this is not true; wasm is more of a particular mode
or API of interacting with the existing JS VM rather than having its own. You
want to re-use the JIT, etc, for wasm. Note that that issue is from 2015.

That said I don't work on these implementations so maybe I'm wrong as well.

------
unknown_apostle
I'm studying Rust as we speak, took 3 weeks off for it. The documentation is
absolutely top notch, thank you Steve & team!

It won't be easy to find a project in Rust or to get a customer to start a
project in it, but I sure would like to.

~~~
zerr
There are no Rust jobs apparently?:
[https://rustjobs.rs/](https://rustjobs.rs/)

~~~
steveklabnik
That requires someone to actually post a job; I'm not sure how well people
know of that site. I forgot it existed until you mentioned it.

Most of what we're seeing in the "Rust jobs" space is companies hiring people
to do Rust work, but also other work, and so they're not pure "Rust jobs". For
example, take Dropbox, one of our oldest production users. They have a job
opening for a Senior Software Engineer right now:
[https://www.dropbox.com/jobs/listing/735139](https://www.dropbox.com/jobs/listing/735139)

Nowhere in this listing do they mention any specific technology. Will you get
to use Rust in this job? Maybe! Maybe not. They tend to hire good programmers,
and expect them to be flexible, in my understanding.

Another genre is stuff like Amazon, who used to have a job posting up here,
that now 404s: [https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/559813/sr-software-
developme...](https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/559813/sr-software-development-
engineer)

This posting said that knowing Rust was a plus for the job. Does that mean you
get to write Rust? I can't say, as I don't know the details of what that job
entails, but it might be a good way to differentiate yourself from the crowd.

Anyway, I think jobs using Rust are extremely important, and want to see more
of them. It takes time though :)

~~~
unknown_apostle
Btw Steve, do you see a role for Rust in web development?

~~~
steveklabnik
I was going to answer your first question, but you edited it out. The short
answer is "yes but it's very fiddly".

I do, but with some caveats. Rust is pretty great at spitting out JSON, so I
think it fits in best as either the backend for an SPA, "middle end" style
services, and/or background jobs that need to do intense processing.

One area that's under-appreciated about Rust in the web space is its low
memory footprint: crates.io is written in Rust, and uses about 30MB of RAM,
resident, all the time. Lower memory usage means saving $$$ on servers. At
least one production user has reported being very happy with this.

Second, npm has stated that they enjoy Rust for their middle end stuff because
it's "operationally boring". The Rust service (and soon to be services) is
never what triggers pager duty. It just does its job.

------
steveklabnik
Hey all,

I don't wanna spam comments with just "<3", so please consider this a
collective reply.

I can see how some may have read some of this as me leaving, but I can assure
you, I'm not. I'm more committed than ever.

------
Danihan
No offense, but I'm not sure I understand the point of this post or why it's
relevant / upvoted.

~~~
steveklabnik
My personal stuff tends to end up here, as I've been a part of Hacker News for
quite a while now. My account is almost nine years old!

That said, I understand this sentiment, and it's why I didn't submit it
myself. I think it's fine, as people do seem to be interested, but can also
understand the opposite view.

~~~
weberc2
I can't help but laugh at the commenter below who made a new account just to
troll you. Part and parcel of being a prominent part of a community, I guess.

~~~
steveklabnik
They come in waves. dang and crew are generally pretty responsive in taking
care of it. 4chan/8chan on the other hand... It's just a part of my life at
this point.

------
saghm
Although I can't speak for the rest of the software industry, Steve's hard
work and talent have certainly made a huge impact on the Rust language and
community. If you read this, thanks for everything you do to make Rust great!

------
foota
I didn't really understand ownership until I started working in c++, now I
think I understand it a lot better.

------
chewbacha
Your contributions have helped me gain and appreciate much of the rust eco
system. You have helped build a strong community with an even stronger open-
source mentality.

Thank you!

------
nixpulvis
Can't wait to see Rust for embedded development become more mature over then
next few years!

------
hckr1292
Wait, are you leaving Mozilla or your day-to-day responsibilities with Rust?
I'm confused about the message here.

Either way, your help in providing documentation and mentorship to me
personally on IRC and thousands of other aspiring rust devs is something I'm
profoundly grateful for. Thank you, Steve!!

~~~
staticassertion
Nothing in the article seems to indicate him leaving Mozilla or rust. It ends
with "here's to 5 more years".

