
China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says - hkmaxpro
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-of-uighur-minorities-meets-u-n-definition-of-genocide-report-s
======
foobar_
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Zenz)
... the china expert

> Zenz co-authored the book Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be
> Raptured Before the Tribulation which links modern trends, including gender
> equality, homosexuality and bans on corporal punishment, to the power of the
> Antichrist.

The more I look at it, history is one ethnic group against the other. The
winners do what they want, the weak suffer as prisoners of war.

~~~
oefrha
In reply to a flagged sibling: what's there to see in the edit history? There
was an edit war (or maybe I should use the plural, didn't look too closely),
which is common on controversial topics, and judging from the talk page it has
been resolved with a compromise. Bottom line, dude did coauthor that book, and
even the title is telling enough.

Also, unrelated, it's sad that any comment trying to discuss or question
what's specifically in the article is quickly downvoted into oblivion --
except this one, curiously -- and only general threads suitable (or
unsuitable) for any submission loosely on this topic remain. People are quick
to post insinuations about astroturfing too, despite guidelines specifically
banning that.

~~~
foobar_
It seems the comments about iraq, yemen, afghanistan them have been downvoted
/ flagged. I guess this one too. There's a documentary on netflix showing the
13th amendment's relation to the labor camps, shocking to say the least.

I don't think there is anything new in the article. It's the standard rhetoric
used by UK/US media. Also notice the conspicuous absence of Saudis, they too
are involved in messy labor practices. Oddly enough not a single of these
pointless articles will mention that its another country in some sense -
Turkestan ... because if thats the context of the debate then US will have to
give up puerto rico, california and indian territories and UK ireland and
France guiana and so on .... Here's the irony of the whole situation, from
their standpoint the chinese too are liberating the places from feudalism and
they have made some progress in the regions as opposed to the reckless
military interventions of other nations.

The fact of the matter is literally none of the allied powers cared for the
genocides in WWII, they even welcomed it. The POWs were also completely
ignored post war which is one of the unspoken tragedies. In democratically
elected nations it seems the only way to go to war is to paint the other side
as a dictator go to war with it. The lies are just tiring at this point.

~~~
Paradigma11
China did liberate the area from feudalism by killing the ppl living there in
the first place:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide)
China intentionally and resettled the uighurs there in first place after
having killed 80% of the population that lived there.

How can you make an historical argument without mentioning this small detail?

~~~
oefrha
And you failed to mention the small detail that what you linked to happened in
18th century, not post WWII, or anywhere close to 20th century. Not even led
by the same ethnicity — Qing rulers were Manchus. Do we really need to bring
up colonialist genocides?

~~~
Paradigma11
My answer was to a post that brought up "...puerto rico, california and indian
territories and UK ireland and France guiana and so on..." Those also were not
post WWII.

But the parents argument was that from chinese perspective China has liberated
the foreign state Turkestan and brought enlightenment to this region.

Considering the Genocide this interpretation seems somewhat dubious. And yes,
i would expect such colonialist atrocities come up same as with other
countries.

------
AHappyCamper
I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and
economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against
humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st
century.

Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a
species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us
all the things we shouldn't be doing?

~~~
saeranv
I had a professor (a historian who studied Auschwitz) who used to argue the
opposite. Germany was a modern, industrialized nation, with an educated
population - and yet the majority of the population either actively committed
genocide, or were complicit in some fashion. My professor thus argued that the
conditions for the Holocaust are not unique, and there could easily be another
one.

~~~
throwaway6274
~50% of the population continues to support abortion, so I’d say we have a
very long way to go.

~~~
orwin
If contraception worked 100%, or if we were able to disable the libido
whenever we want and prevent all rape from happening, maybe i would agree with
that.

Since we're not, until someone convince me the violinist argument is not
receivable[0], i would continue to support women wanting early abortion.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Defense_of_Abortion)

~~~
totetsu
I'd like to see some of Thomson's thought experiments made into VR minigames
and released on steam.

------
wcerfgba
For UK citizens, there is an open petition to Parliament asking the UK
Government to impose sanctions on China as a response:
[https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300146](https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300146)

~~~
ReptileMan
UK cannot simultaneously piss off Brussels and Beijing. Not going to happen.
And UK is 1/6th of China economy.

~~~
oliwarner
The UK _was_ 1/6\. Back when we had a financial services sector, before we
brucked it all up for blue passports.

Strange how we ever punched that high. We only have 1/23 the people, and
barely make anything ourselves these days.

~~~
magicsmoke
Gunships + British Raj. Would have lasted longer too if the UK didn't start
the road to bankruptcy by entering WW1.

~~~
Johnjonjoan
Britain joined to stop Wilhelm making a blue water navy that could rival the
royal navy. I don't think it's a given British hegemony would have lasted as
long without joining ww1.

~~~
magicsmoke
Germany's navy was never going to be more than Wilhelm's pet project because
Germany's main threats were land based France and Russia. Britain joined
because of honor over protecting Belgian neutrality, which shocked Germany
diplomats who thought Britain would never fight over something with so little
material gain for it.

~~~
Johnjonjoan
Without Britain I don't think Germany would be required to transfer resources
from ship building to the land campaign. As far as I'm aware Wilhelm was very
serious about developing a navy and they were fairly close to parity with the
RN in some aspects even in ww1.

------
balola
#VICENewsTonight China’s Vanishing Muslims: Undercover In The Most Dystopian
Place In The World

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ)

~~~
agakshat
Thank you for sharing that. Really strongly recommend everyone to watch this
video, a rare glimpse at the people inside this nightmare

------
wcerfgba
> SIMON: People need to be careful using the word genocide. Why do you think
> it's justified and important to use it now?

> ZENZ: I have long argued that the atrocity in the region is a cultural
> genocide, not a literal genocide. I do continue to believe that, generally
> speaking, the Chinese government does not intend to physically eradicate the
> Uighurs and Kazakhs, just to integrate, subjugate, dominate and assimilate
> them. However, this is coupled with a policy of ethnoracial domination, as
> the government has brought millions of Han Chinese settler in the regions
> with promises of high salaries, jobs and free housing.

> The reason why now this has changed - we do need to probably call it a
> genocide - is quite simply because the evidence now, for the first time,
> very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United
> Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of
> Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth.

~~~
dleslie
This is similar to what happened to indigenous peoples here in Canada. For the
most part, and while there are clear and heinous exceptions, the intent was to
wipe out indigenous culture and society. Because it wasn't gas chambers it's
been harder to get the general population to recognize what was/is happening.

Also, forced sterilization is still a thing, particularly outside of urban
health authorities.

[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-
la...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-lawsuit-
could-expand-1.5102981)

~~~
hkmaxpro
In Canada, it’s due to the lack of proper or informed consent, and a class-
action lawsuit is trying to correct that.

[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-
la...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/forced-sterilization-lawsuit-
could-expand-1.5102981)

In China, “[t]he population control measures are backed by mass detention both
as a threat and as a punishment for failure to comply”:

[https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c](https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c)

And Uyghurs have to flee China just to speak out against this practice. Do you
see a lawsuit coming in China?

Huge difference.

~~~
dleslie
Canada had sterilization laws up to 1972; and the link I provided was to an
article about that class action lawsuit. ;)

~~~
hkmaxpro
I don’t think it’s fair to compare China today with Canada almost 50 years
ago.

A lot of things have changed since then. Boston Marathon didn’t have women’s
race until 1972.

Our expectations today should be higher.

~~~
dleslie
The last residential school didn't close until the 90s. There are far too many
communities without clean drinking water, let alone access to quality
education and health care. We still struggle to maintain obligations regarding
indigenous land rights and safe guarding indigenous culture.

Our expectations today should be higher.

------
gabaix
As of right now, the post is 3-hour old, has 391 votes, second only to another
post in the top 60 posts, and yet is is ranked... #59.

HN mods have likely flagged it as flamewar, or non relevant, or both,
effectively contributing to the soft censorship on the topic.

Content platforms have many challenges ahead of them.

~~~
GaryNumanVevo
Only users can flag posts, mods can only unflag

~~~
gabaix
There is an option for mods to accelerate or slow the decay function of the
post.

This is a practice that all content platforms use and few know about. Burying
content down, or removing from feed (for Facebook/YouTube) is a soft censoring
that avoids user and regulatory backlash.

I would like the platforms to be more transparent about the practice. They
could display a ‘derank’ or ‘delisted’ label to all users.

------
ReptileMan
A lot of international politics/treaties enforcement boils down to - are you
willing to bleed and die for that cause.

Unless we are willing to go to war - there are no viable ways to prevent China
from doing whatever they feel like in the territory they control. Even the
tiny Iran and Cuba survived decades of sanctions.

~~~
JadeNB
> Unless we are willing to go to war - there are no viable ways to prevent
> China from doing whatever they feel like in the territory they control.

This just seems false. There are no ways to _guarantee_ that they won't do
something, but China, like everyone else, is vulnerable to international
pressure. An optimistic historic parallel to which one could look is the
Helsinki Accords, where diplomatic measures far short of war wrung what turned
out to be dramatic human-rights concessions from the Soviets.

~~~
ReptileMan
It seems but it is not. China is ascending power whereas USSR was in the first
stages of decay. The only game the big boys play is Realpolitik.

And they were not binding anyway. And I can assure you that USSR and the
eastern bloc didn't comply at all.

~~~
JadeNB
> And they were not binding anyway. And I can assure you that USSR and the
> eastern bloc didn't comply at all.

Of course, there is no such thing as a binding international agreement—a state
that feels itself empowered to abrogate an agreement will do so, regardless of
anything that it has signed. As you say, in the end, the only sure-fire tool
of enforcement is war, and even that is not sure fire, because victory in war
is not guaranteed. Nonetheless, despite the many and flagrant violations of
the Helsinki Accords, it is plausible to trace the beginning of the
dissolution of the Warsaw Pact directly to the accords.

------
totetsu
Don't worry people, according to the Chinese media, It's all western media
lies.
[https://www.jfdaily.com.cn/news/detail?id=261301](https://www.jfdaily.com.cn/news/detail?id=261301)
[https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cgjed/chn/zt/xjfk/t1767376.htm](https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cgjed/chn/zt/xjfk/t1767376.htm)

------
yellow_lead
A database of Uyghur victims is maintained here, with over 9000 entries. The
site is also low on funds and in desperate need of donations.

[https://www.shahit.biz/eng/](https://www.shahit.biz/eng/)

------
thatiscool
Europe Portrays Both America and Iran As Rogue States At the UN

[https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/europe-
portrays-b...](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/europe-portrays-
both-america-and-iran-rogue-states-un-163851)

------
thatiscool
“Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth”, - that is a
propaganda technique.

Some countries so desperately want chaos in Xinjiang as in HongKong.

------
sadmann1
Whataboutism seems to be the key feature linking many posts here. It's not a
convincing argument

~~~
codekansas
Is it just me or does this happen for every article about anything China-
related?

~~~
baskire
I’ve noticed it to be the primary defense mechanism of China sympathizers.
Funnily enough USSR used similar arguments

~~~
Can_Not
> Christian Christensen, Professor of Journalism in Stockholm, argues that the
> accusation of whataboutism is itself a form of the tu quoque fallacy, as it
> dismisses criticisms of one's own behavior to focus instead on the actions
> of another, thus creating a double standard. Those who use whataboutism are
> not necessarily engaging in an empty or cynical deflection of
> responsibility: whataboutism can be a useful tool to expose contradictions,
> double standards, and hypocrisy

> Others have criticized the usage of accusations of whataboutism by American
> news outlets, arguing that accusations of whataboutism have been used to
> simply deflect criticisms of human rights abuses perpetrated by the United
> States or its allies. They argue that the usage of the term almost
> exclusively by American outlets is a double standard, and that moral
> accusations made by powerful countries are merely a pretext to punish their
> geopolitical rivals in the face of their own wrongdoing

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism)

------
contingencies
Objectively, it may be relevant to note that the rich history of the Silk Road
includes numerous cultural genocides, the largest of which was contemporary
with the coming of Islam.

We have yet to even comprehend the vast trove of materials recovered from the
region indicative of those past cultures, which includes a trove of languages,
scripts and religious affiliations.

An amazing international digitization project hosted by the British Library at
has full document search capabilities. [http://idp.bl.uk/](http://idp.bl.uk/)
... scholars are desperately needed to sort and interpret the material, which
crosses the Chinese, Indian, Central Asian and Tibetan worlds in addition to
endemic kingdoms.
[https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/73/5d/59735daf093ccb7787c7...](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/73/5d/59735daf093ccb7787c7deae823fd8f3.png)

A fact little known amongst modern Chinese is that one of China's most
celebrated poets, Li Bai, actually hailed from Central Asia (Kyrgyzstan). He
relocated to Sichuan.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Bai)
Other popularly remnant modern Chinese cultural links to this region from
China include the coming of Buddhism and the fictionalized account _Journey to
the West_ , the romanticized export of silk technology, former military
significance of 'blood (sweating) horses' and no doubt various contributions
to medical, astronomic and scientific knowledge.

The Uighurs, like hundreds of ethnic and cultural minorities globally, and
dozens within China, are facing a difficult integration with the modern world
surrounded by far more significant economic and cultural spheres. It's also
objective to say that a minor Uighur-affiliated violent separatist group has
been operating with a distinct anti-government position since at least the
early 1990s, and prior to that the region was a victim of the Great Game:
[http://pratyeka.org/books/kazak-exodus/](http://pratyeka.org/books/kazak-
exodus/)

China historically allowed members of registered minority groups to be free of
the one child policy, which otherwise affected all Chinese. The linked article
asserts it is still being applied in Xinjiang and specifically against the
Uighurs which is different to the rest of the country at present, but not
historically. It would be good to see what the primary sources are on this.

There are potentially reasonable grounds for an international relations
argument that nominally recent anti-Uighur measures might be, at least in
part, traced to immediately contemporary post-911 "anti-terror" rhetoric by
the US providing global laisser-faire on rights suspensions and heavy-handed
tactics.

Conclusion: There is more to the story than a timely and simplistic
villification, none of which excuses the actions being taken, but all of which
add context.

------
MintelIE
Oh come on, China's a big powerful profitable country. And genocide has a
special meaning, we can't just call any ethnic extermination a genocide,
that'd be improper.

China will just keep on killing their Uighurs and companies will keep doing
business there. There's perks, too, I bet CEOs can get organs if they need
them, CHEAP, these days, if they bring manufacturing into China.

------
pozdnyshev
>Adrian Zenz is a senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism
Memorial Foundation

HAHAHAHA

------
geogra4
I don't think it's "whataboutism" to question the validity of a source as
cartoonishly biased as the victims of communism foundation. These are the
people that claim every covid death is a victim of communism.

------
apta
Another holocaust is being committed right in front of everyone. What will the
world do now? Sit back and keep taking advantage of the benefits of cheap
Chinese labour? Isn't it time to wake up and cut this barbaric behavior if
we're going to claim we moved past what happened in WWII?

~~~
refurb
Are you willing to die or have your countrymen die to stop it? Because that’s
likely what it would take.

~~~
apta
Many Muslims are willing to fight to save their Uighur brothers and sisters
being genocided.

~~~
cvlasdkv
How many pre-dominantly Muslim countries have come out in outrage to criticize
China's policies?

~~~
apta
The people are genuinely and deeply upset. Just because they don't go out on
the streets in protest, it doesn't mean it's not the case.

------
pozdnyshev
"I have long argued that the atrocity in the region is a cultural genocide,
not a literal genocide"

Headline is extremely misleading.

~~~
hkmaxpro
> The reason why now this has changed - we do need to probably call it a
> genocide - is quite simply because the evidence now, for the first time,
> very specifically meets one of the five criteria set forth by the United
> Nations Convention for the Punishment and Prevention of the Crime of
> Genocide from 1948, which specifically says the suppression of birth

------
chvid
"Adrian Zenz is a senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism
Memorial Foundation."

Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation? Ah ok.

Just as there is no prejudice or bias of any kind slipping into your
scientific research ...

~~~
steffandroid
The Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation counts all COVID-19 deaths
worldwide as victims of communism, in case anyone was wondering how credible
this organisation is.

~~~
infinity0
Source?

~~~
Semaphor
[https://www.victimsofcommunism.org/voc-
news/2020/4/5/blame-t...](https://www.victimsofcommunism.org/voc-
news/2020/4/5/blame-the-chinese-communist-party-for-the-coronavirus-crisis)

It’s a hilarious read:

> If Beijing had given the real number of infected people and deaths, other
> countries would have recognized the danger, and taken necessary steps.

No matter what transpired, eventually there was a warning, and most countries
still took no steps until they had high numbers themselves. Hell, Italy could
have been the warning and it would have helped.

~~~
hkmaxpro
A Nature paper [0] suggests that 66 or even 95 percent of the cases could be
avoided, had China acted on the coronavirus 1 to 3 weeks earlier [1].

[0]
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2293-x](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2293-x)

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/research-
finds...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/research-finds-huge-
impact-of-interventions-on-spread-of-covid-19)

~~~
Semaphor
But that paper, at least in the abstract, talks about preventable deaths _in
China_. The anti-communists talk about China being to blame for the deaths in
other countries because those countries had no warning.

~~~
hkmaxpro
The paper was posted on March 13 [0], before Covid-19 peaked outside of China.
Of course it didn’t focus on other places.

The abstract shows the authors believe its findings have relevance elsewhere:

> These findings improve our understanding of the effects of non-
> pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19, and will inform response efforts
> across the world

[0]
[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.03.20029843v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.03.20029843v3)

~~~
Semaphor
But what does that have to do with countries having plenty of warning and
doing next to nothing? I feel like you replied to the wrong poster.

------
resters
Yet American prisons don’t meet the UN standard? Abu Garson, etc.

All this hubbub about China’s human rights record is paving the way for Trump
to stir up a fake conflict just before the election.

------
dis-sys
Seriously, suppression of birth?

According the exact same logic used by this ZENZ guy, China's majority group
(Han) has been subjected to such "genocide" for decades. As a result of such
"suppression", only 400 million Han Chinese were born in the last 30 years
rather than the estimated 800+ million.

~~~
prrls
I may be mistaken but Han Chinese weren't forced to undergo sterilization. If
you had a second child, you were fined and your child wouldn't be recognized
as a Chinese citizen. Still horrible though.

~~~
yorwba
Sterilization was standard procedure for Han Chinese women for decades:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/world/asia/after-one-
chil...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/world/asia/after-one-child-policy-
outrage-at-chinas-offer-to-remove-iuds.html)

~~~
hkmaxpro
But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps?

> The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces
> intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of
> thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and
> sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang.

> But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the
> abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many
> children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and
> data show. Some rural Muslims, like Omirzakh, are punished even for having
> the three children allowed by the law

> Leaked data obtained and corroborated by the AP showed that of 484 camp
> detainees listed in Karakax county in Xinjiang, 149 were there for having
> too many children - the most common reason for holding them. Time in a camp
> — what the government calls “education and training” — for parents with too
> many children is written policy in at least three counties, notices found by
> Zenz confirmed

> Seven former detainees told the AP that they were force-fed birth control
> pills or injected with fluids, often with no explanation. Many felt dizzy,
> tired or ill, and women stopped getting their periods. After being released
> and leaving China, some went to get medical check-ups and found they were
> sterile

[https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c](https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c)

~~~
luckylion
> But are Han Chinese sent to concentration camps?

All of them? Certainly not, China would look pretty empty. Some of them? Yeah,
unless you have a special definition of concentration camp.

The organ harvesting also does not seem to have an ethnic component. You tend
to be targeted if you're loudly critical of the government or engage in
unwanted religion, your ethnicity does not spare you.

~~~
hkmaxpro
> The organ harvesting also does not seem to have an ethnic component. You
> tend to be targeted if you're loudly critical of the government or engage in
> unwanted religion, your ethnicity does not spare you.

If Surgeon Enver Tohti’s testimony is to be believed, then Uyghurs are indeed
targeted for organ harvesting.

[https://chinatribunal.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/03/A15_Sub...](https://chinatribunal.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/03/A15_Submission_ID459T_EnverTohti_PD.pdf)

~~~
luckylion
Most likely, my point is: so are Han Chinese that are imprisoned for a variety
of reasons. It's not an ethnic thing, it's primarily an authoritarian-regime-
with-little-regard-for-human-rights-thing. Falun Gong practicioners for
example are also heavily targeted, and they are predominately Han.

------
newen
Hahaha, Zenz. People, please look at the sources before you go blindly
believing the latest anti-China scare story.

[https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-
millions-...](https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-
uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/)

> The second study relied on flimsy media reports and speculation. It was
> authored by Adrian Zenz, a far-right fundamentalist Christian who opposes
> homosexuality and gender equality, supports “scriptural spanking” of
> children, and believes he is “led by God” on a “mission” against China.

> As Washington ratchets up pressure on China, Zenz has been lifted out of
> obscurity and transformed almost overnight into a go-to pundit on Xinjiang.
> He has testified before Congress, providing commentary in outlets from the
> Wall Street Journal to Democracy Now!, and delivering expert quotes in the
> International Consortium of Investigative Journalists’ recent “China Cables”
> report. His Twitter bio notes that he is “moving across the Atlantic” from
> his native Germany.

[https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1208837915687706624](https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1208837915687706624)

------
oefrha
It’s not like China didn’t have mandatory birth control on the ethnic
majority.

~~~
balola
The difference is now the population growth is collapsing, even after they
loosened the limit to 2 kids per family, China desperately needs more babies.

~~~
oefrha
> loosened the limit to 2 kids per family

Still a limit, and a low one at that, so doesn’t sound “desperate” at all.

TFA says “I uncovered evidence that the Uighurs are subject to internment in
camps if they violate birth control policies, have too many children.”
Presumably too many is greater than 2, but who knows.

~~~
balola
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/250650/number-of-
births-...](https://www.statista.com/statistics/250650/number-of-births-in-
china/)

The trend is clear, the limit was loosened late 2015, and it's not working coz
people don't want/can't afford 2 kids.

China didn't care minorities having 10 kids before, why bother now?

~~~
oefrha
> why bother now?

Of course I can’t answer that question, it’s not like I’m particularly
perturbed by minorities having 10 kids. (I am in general perturbed by people
giving birth to many children without the means to properly support and
educate them, though. This is a problem in many parts of the world.)

My point is either one child policy was a genocide against the ethnic majority
(which would frankly be ridiculous) or this one is not a genocide against an
ethnic minority. Pretty sure whether the two occurred at the exact same time
isn’t a factor in the cited definition.

------
knolax
Why was "report says" just removed? It's in the headline of TFA and it was in
the HN headline a minute ago. I'd consider it a salient piece of information
given that the report isn't authored by the UN but by some christian
fundamentalist.

EDIT: it's back now.

~~~
dang
It was never in the HN headline until I added it a minute ago (before I saw
your comment btw—this is standard moderation).

