
You Can Get a Better Job If You Just Ask - nhashem
http://hash-money.com/post/27072947122/you-can-get-a-better-job-if-you-just-ask
======
DanielRibeiro
Many of this advice echoes _The Passionate Programmer_ [1]. However, I believe
it should also echo this one[2]: _Don’t waste your time in crappy startup
jobs_

Maybe more importantly, it should echo _You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss_ [3].

An even more disruptive perspective actually came from Bret Victor[4]:

 _There are many ways to live your life. That's maybe the most important thing
to realize in your life, that every aspect of your life is a choice. There are
default choices. You can choose to sleepwalk through your life, and accept the
path that is laid out for you. You can choose to accept the world as it is.
But you don't have to. If there's something in the world that you feel is a
wrong, and you have a vision for what a better world could be, you can find
your guiding principle, and you can fight for a cause. So after this talk, I'd
like you to take a little time, and think about what matters to you, what you
believe in, and what you might fight for._

[1] <http://pragprog.com/book/cfcar2/the-passionate-programmer>

[2] [http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-
yo...](http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-
crappy-startup-jobs/)

[3] <http://www.paulgraham.com/boss.html>

[4] [http://gumption.typepad.com/blog/2012/03/principle-
centered-...](http://gumption.typepad.com/blog/2012/03/principle-centered-
invention-bret-victor-on-tools-skills-crafts-and-causes.html)

------
jmduke
_Are you a software engineer at a company with a languishing flagship product
where any attempt at innovation is prematurely killed in the name of
optimizing quarterly profits?_

Stuff like this bothers me and I think paints an unfair picture of a corporate
environment. Corporations aren't some Disney dichotomy of either being
incredibly encouraging of change or a supervillain who purposefully punishes
developers in order to line their own wallet.

The reality, I think, is that the vast majority of companies are in the
middle. Change is good; change for the sake of change often goes against
business principles. Why is a company shunning your 'innovation'? Is it
because its unfeasible, or costly? Does it not integrate well with the product
line?

~~~
SoftwareMaven
Products have lifecycles. One of the states is the milking state, where you
minimize investment in that product to maximize profit (put another way, the
incremental value of new work is less than or equal to zero). Anybody would be
stupid to continue dumping money in those.

The problem is that state occurs right before product death. If you aren't
investing that milk money somewhere new, your company is in a death spiral,
regardless of how much money there is coming in today.

So if your company is only milking and not investing, then, yes, leave,
immediately. Personally, I've not seen that happen often, but I have seen it.

~~~
vonmoltke
I'd leave also if the company's definition of "investing" is limited to some
combination of polishing, enhancing, or repackaging the same milk money
projects repeatedly. Its almost as dangerous as just sticking to the milk
money projects (unless your company is a government contractor).

~~~
jebblue
So engineers (coders) at IBM, Microsoft, Apple, HP, Dell, Wal-Mart, etc.
should give up their "dangerous" jobs and seek out startups?

~~~
davedx
Oh, come on, are you serious?

IBM - one of the biggest R&D IT companies in the history of computing.

Microsoft - invented Windows, the XBox, Visual Studio, Silverlight, C#, the
list is endless.

Apple - inventing radically new consumer products every other year.

Those examples are _not_ what he was talking about at all.

~~~
jebblue
If you think my examples are not valid then provide some you think are
representative of what he was talking about.

------
jere
>Think of any reason why you’re tolerating your current job and ask any
prospective employer to beat it.

What about a great team, reasonable hours, lack of red tape, and flexibility
in technical choices? All reasons I love my current job and things I don't
think a potential employer would give an honest answer about anyway. _That's_
the biggest friction, for me at least.

~~~
jaggederest
Yup, I loathe the deception involved in the interview-hire process. People lie
to each other with smiling faces, from both sides.

Just once I'd like to walk into an interview and have them say 'We want to
work you like a dog so that we can make a million dollars and then fire you',
and be able to reply 'That's fine, I am more interested in the color of your
money than your ideological purity'.

~~~
angelbob
I think that line is more for contractors than full-timers. Less red tape to
let you go.

Which sounds snarky, but I mean it seriously.

~~~
jaggederest
The line between contractors and regular employees is virtually nil, at least
in technical jobs. In at-will states you have no protection at all, the only
difference is who pays the taxes and benefits from the employer side.

------
rheide
It's just not true. Not for everyone. I've worked with people in the past who
would shine in a new role, and I keep telling them to quit their job and move
on to something better. But I've also worked with people who think they're
good programmers but really aren't, and those people should thank the lord
with both hands that they got the job they have now.

------
readme
Alternate title: How to become delusional and get fired from your solid job
that pays all your bills and allows you to save for retirement and invest,
too.

~~~
angelbob
In silicon valley we dislike the term "delusional."

It's our "reality distortion field" :-P

~~~
readme
I don't have anything against dreaming big.

My main observation, also from personal experience, is it's possible for
someone who is otherwise content and on the right track in life to become
confused by the kind of rhetoric utilized in this article.

I'm all for saving money and working on side projects until you have the
stability to undertake a dream without significant risk.

------
Ralith
This seems to be nothing more than a long-winded advertisement for Persway.me.
Which doesn't even serve areas other than NYC and LA.

------
temphn
This is sort of reminiscent of those billboards proclaiming "Life is short.
Get a divorce."

Go talk to some people who've made the leap to founding their own companies or
going for that bigger position. The pressure increases and the race never
ends. Sometimes it's nice to just be able to knock out code on interesting
problems without constantly worrying about your next move. Engineer comp is
going up, way up. I don't think the right next step is to turn engineers into
hyperpolitical MBAs.

~~~
hkmurakami
Ironically I believe that we need technically competent people on the business
side more than ever. When an industry gets "Hot", it attracts pretenders, and
that can only hurt us.

------
kunj2aan
The article starts by listing a couple of problems, at least one of which most
software engineers will identify with.

Most of us have sometimes had our ideas turned down and a lot of companies do
that for wide variety of reasons - not just to maximize quarterly earnings.
Most of us have had our projects cancelled midway and usually the
communications may not have been as you would have expected.

These don't make your jobs "crappy". Any company will have to make tradeoffs
between the longterm vision and the short term earnings. I think quitting is
not a good reaction to any of the above problems.

I would also try to address some of the allegations he makes about a company
being "crappy".

Being profitable and stable means a lot of things. They are not a crutch that
people hold on to. It means that there are people who are paying for what you
make. It means that your team mates are doing a good job of selling what you
make. It means that you are made something what people want. For most of us
the pay is a small part of the equation on the job satisfaction. If I am
making something that is profitable with people that I like and the company is
trying its best to provide me some small perks,the low pay may hardly matter.

He also goes on another tangent expressing different frustrations about
working in a company namely having "idiots with no technical background ...
just because they have an MBA".

There are two different and unrelated points here. Why would someone without a
technical background be an idiot? Why wouldn't he be competent to lead a team?
Is your company hiring managers solely based on degrees? Does your company
hire engineers just because they have a computer science degree? Would you
have a person run a team just because he has a technical background?

There are a lot of reasons why people hate their companies. There are a lot of
reasons why people love their companies. It is a good thing that the authors
is trying to minimize the hateful relationship through your startup. However,
he has provided no convincing argument to why some of the things that he
listed make the company "mediocre" or "crappy" and why it is worth leaving the
company.

~~~
nodemaker
>Why wouldn't he be competent to lead a team?

IMO you need to have a technical background in order to lead a technical
team.Otherwise you will fail to distinguish between making software and
shoveling snow.

------
snorkel
I fully support leaving a job that is not satisfying, but I can't recommend
creating a profile on a web site that implies that you regard yourself as a
rock star who requires a leather furnished tour bus and a bathtub filled with
chilled champagne before you can consider joining an unworthy enterprise. I
assume any employer desperate enough to scope out talent that has this
attitude is probably the kind of place I don't want to work at.

------
xonev
Why persway.me and not persuade.me?

~~~
photon137
someone has parked a domain there

~~~
libria
I think he's asking why they haven't bid for a domain name that appears to be
dormant.

~~~
ricardobeat
Cost? Squatters will ask for $2k as soon as you demonstrate interest.

~~~
josephcooney
Which is a piss in the ocean if you're looking to start a real business.

~~~
ricardobeat
Right, I forgot we were on HN where everyone's salary is $10k/month and
investors throw piles of cash at you.

