
Tesla Model X owners finding car doors won’t shut, windows won’t close - outworlder
http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/20/tesla-model-x-owners-finding-car-doors-wont-shut-windows-wont-close/
======
zhoujianfu
I got one on March 29th, and it's been in the shop for the last two days (they
haven't been able to find the problem yet!) because all of the sudden it gave
eight errors and the power steering went out.

Hopefully they fix it soon... And get the driver's window to roll all the way
up. And get the passenger side falcon wing door to close without always
thinking there's an obstruction. And figure out where a piece of plastic that
popped off a chair is supposed to go. And get the autopilot to stop seeing a
"ghost car" (that causes it to slam on the brakes) when driving on the 10.

But, I still love that acceleration, with three car seats across the middle
(because we're waiting on the recall for the rear two)!

~~~
beachstartup
_> And get the autopilot to stop seeing a "ghost car" (that causes it to slam
on the brakes) when driving on the 10._

this all sounded like normal luxo-car post purchase pain, except... that.

metro expo line downtown to santa monica opens on may 20th though, so you may
be in luck while your tesla's on the lift!

~~~
zhoujianfu
Yeah! I'm pretty stoked for that! But then the tesla autopilot kind of
obviated the need (since bumper-to-bumper traffic is its specialty)... but
thanks to this glitch, I'm happily stoked again!

------
ams6110
Reliability problems in exotics/supercars in the $150K+ price range are not
uncommon. It's somewhat more tolerable for most as those cars are not bought
as daily drivers, but I get the sense that's not the case with most Tesla
owners.

Rather funny to read all the excuses. "We all expected a few bugs, like beta
testing software" \--- I'm not buying it. Beta testers usually don't pay six
figures for the privilege.

Compare to my $2,500 secondhand Ford that has had no faults in several years
of ownership. Yes it does need occasional oil and filter changes. I'll take
that compared to doors that won't open or brakes that activate upon sensing
ghosts.

~~~
argonaut
The Tesla is not a supercar. It's a luxury car. Its competitors are
BMW/Mercedes-type luxury cars. Just because a car is $150k does not make it a
supercar.

~~~
qaq
Well it's in top trim 0.5 sec faster to 60 then Porsche cayenne Turbo S and
just a bit slower then Lambo Aventador. Tesla model S p85d is faster then
Aventador and same time to 60 as Lambo Veneo (costs over 4 million USD).

~~~
kuschku
And on the Autobahn it’s slower than most family sedans, actually obstructing
traffic.

~~~
imtringued
Maybe those "most family sedan" drivers should try to obey the speed limits?

~~~
t0mas88
Big parts of the German autobahn have no speedlimits...

~~~
CroCroCro
I'm German and that's just a false statement.

~~~
gambiting
What's false about it? I drive through Germany regularly and there are
stretches of the autobahn where there's no speed limit, I've driven at 130mph
past police cars and it's absolutely fine - are you saying that the "big" part
is false?

~~~
wibr
quick fact check via google: 40% of the German Autobahn have speed limits, I
guess 60% can count as "big parts"

~~~
talmand
There's a difference between "most" and "big parts".

------
tptacek
_In fact, after trying numerous approaches and trying to work through the
car’s software controls, Deeter found himself driving to a board meeting with
one hand on the steering wheel and one holding shut the driver-side door. “It
wasn’t terribly smart, but I didn’t have time to call an Uber.”_

Don't do things like this.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
He's not driving a '55 mack truck. The Tesla has power steering. You don't
need two hands to turn the wheel. As long as he's willing to not screw around
with the touch screen for the duration of the drive it's barely less safe than
driving a manual and resting your hand on the shifter.

~~~
beejamin
The Tesla has power steering, which is controlled by the same software that
decided that the door doesn't need to stay closed while driving.

------
blt
No big surprise here. The design screamed "second system effect!" I'm
surprised nobody at Tesla was able to reign in the feature list. Big
management failure IMO. Tesla should have focused on the electric drivetrain +
control software and avoided all the needlessly complex tangential mechanical
features. The Model X showed that Tesla's engineers lack wisdom.

~~~
mehrdada
I'm not sure lack of wisdom is a fair characterization. It does not look like
they have functionality regressions caused by new features in other sections
of the car. Had the new features ruined some old ones, I would have agreed
with you, but these issues are all centered around the new features
themselves. With that in mind, your characterization of wisdom in this context
will be a prescription of never changing anything radically. They took a risk
and they'll likely make it work just fine in near-term updates despite the
embarrassing v1 and then we'll look back and see they have made a _great_ car
which wouldn't have existed had they been _wiser_.

~~~
tmptmp
>>With that in mind, your characterization of wisdom in this context will be a
prescription of never changing anything radically.

Your parent has said they should not spend too much on "tangential mechanical
features". Can you explain what was radical in such features?

~~~
mehrdada
Falcon wing doors.

~~~
rdiddly
They open like this, not like this.

~~~
SixSigma
> one customer whose falcon-wing doors wouldn’t open

or not

or if they do

> owners finding car doors won’t shut

------
joshmn
So this is what the future is like.

Imagine you're on the freeway when suddenly a chip malfunctions and your doors
open. How exciting!

~~~
a_bonobo
My parents used to have an Audi A5 - sometimes, when you've hit a decline just
right, it would shut off completely, no steering, nothing, all you could do
was to let the car roll and reboot it.

This is a known software problem:
[http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-a5-s5-rs5-coupe-
cabrio-...](http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-a5-s5-rs5-coupe-
cabrio-125/very-strange-concern-engine-shut-off-twice-while-driving-2722655/)

I.e., the future is already here and it sucks

~~~
vecinu
Honestly, I wouldn't classify 8 forum posts as a "known software problem".

I think if this was as wide spread as you make it seem, there would have
already been a recall made by VW as this is clearly a huge safety hazard.

~~~
qaq
Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of
failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B
times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
(Fight Club)

~~~
rangibaby
It's actually a paraphrasing of the Ivey (GM) and Grush-Saunby reports (Ford)
from the 1970s. This was several years after Ralph Nader's famous book, Unsafe
at Any Speed (1965)

1\.
[http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/tortsprof/files/FordMemo.pd...](http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/tortsprof/files/FordMemo.pdf)

2\.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed)

------
jonah
I just rode 80 miles in a friend's Fiat 500e tonight. The regenerative braking
and the stability control are both inoperative with the dash lit up like a
Christmas tree with warning lights. They've had it to the dealer multiple
times and they reflash the software or something. It'll be good for a day but
then fail again. Apparently the workaround is to disconnect and reconnect the
12 volt battery before you start it every time. They're going to try to Lemon
Law it.

~~~
forgetsusername
> _I just rode 80 miles in a friend 's Fiat 500e tonight._

So, what's your point? That some cars are lemons? That's well understood.

The consumer reports article isn't about one car; they systematically review
complaints from all kinds of owners and report a score. In this case, the
overall score is below average.

~~~
jonah
"Apparently the workaround is to disconnect and reconnect the 12 volt
battery..." It's a known and common issue that seems to be unfixable.

Not having regen cuts 10 - 15 miles off the max range.

------
overgard
Maybe I'm a total Luddite, but with how fast cars depreciate, and with how
fast electronics become obsolete, right now I have zero interest in the
marriage of the two. You might as well just take the 138k it costs and start a
bonfire.

I'm totally sure it's the future and all that, but when I bought a new car in
2013 I got a stick shift with the most advanced electronics being pretty much
the radio (and even that could be mistaken with a cassette player from 1980 if
you don't notice the bluetooth connection). You know how many problems I've
had with the car so far? ZERO!

~~~
vessenes
Tesla Roadster values have dropped about $30,000 in 6 years, or 5% a year.
That's pretty great for a car of any sort.

~~~
kagamine
That may be because not many roadsters were sold and the rarity makes them
more desirable. The newer models sell in larger numbers and (i assume) will
fall faster in the used market.

~~~
vessenes
It's possible. The P85, for instance seems to have depreciated more rapidly.
But that might be because Tesla keeps pushing the line out on their top of the
line model.

By comparison, though, the 2011 Mercedes SL500 cost around $105,000 and is
currently worth (depending on mileage) right around $50k. That's more typical
depreciation for high end sports cars.

------
usaphp
Guess what - my 5 series bmmw just won't open a trunk becaus there is a broken
latch mechanism in the trunk, no big deal, things like this happen, especially
to a new company like tesla

~~~
kylec
You've probably already checked this, but there's a switch in the glove
compartment of BMWs that will lock the trunk and prevent it from being opened.
Try flipping the switch and see if your trunk opens.

~~~
1024core
Funny anecdote time: my first car was a used Honda Civic. The owner was
selling it much below KBB price, because it had a problem: the rear doors
would not open from inside.

I take it home, and was going over the car with some friends, and one of them
finds a switch on a rear passenger door: hmm, what does this do? He flips the
switch, and we try to open the door from inside, and voila! The door opens.
Flipped the other switch too, and the doors were functioning fine. I think I
saved 20% of the cost of the car simply because the owner didn't know about
child-proof switches. :D

------
unclebucknasty
This is why I don't understand people who are ready to rush headlong into
autonomous vehicle world. I especially don't get it with tech people, and more
especially with software people.

We know what can go wrong. I've heard the arguments that "yeah, but software
is less fallible than humans". Maybe, but what happens when a situation arises
that requires human judgment beyond what mere sensors can provide?

And, what happens when an OTA update regresses some safety feature or
conflicts with another?

~~~
exclusiv
I tried the auto driving in a Model S and I hovered the brake closely for a
long time with some anxiety about trusting it for the reason you noticed.

It was quite amazing and for long trips on the highway and in traffic it
really is remarkable. That's why people are getting excited I think.

You still have to pay attention of course and take over fully at times because
the sensors don't have what they need.

------
vessenes
I don't own a Tesla, although I'd like to.

These sorts of expensive problems are not unknown in top-end cars from long-
time manufacturers either. The list of problems an S-class Mercedes will have
over the course of its life is long, and can be very, very expensive.

So, not to say this isn't a problem, just that buyers of fancy, super-fast
'super-car' type cars do put up with a lot of maintenance issues.

~~~
ehnto
I guess that comes with having the new toys in low production runs. Fewer
testers and technologies or implementations that are yet to be run through
their paces, I wouldn't be too surprised as an informed buyer.

An uninformed buyer would be pretty annoyed though!

~~~
vessenes
For sure. If your last cars were good production year Volvos, the high end car
thing can cause some heart burn.

------
ec109685
Same thing happened with Model S when first released. Mine had window that
wouldn't rollup, door that spontaneously opened, noise from engines and noise
from sun roof. All fixed, but annoying. Thank goodness cars have longer
warranty than other tech and tesla stands by car.

------
puranjay
Ha. From what I've seen, the more expensive the car, the less reliable it is.

My brother's BMW needs about 5x more maintenance than his Nissan.

------
blubb-fish
I long to return to those days when a car's panes where adjusted by means of a
simple mechanical crank ... I despise this obsessive compulsive digitality.

------
dawnerd
But at least their resale value "is holding up well"

[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/722891148126060545](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/722891148126060545)

~~~
forgetsusername
I know people who sold beanie babies on the secondary market for thousands of
dollars because they were "limited". That says more about the buyer than the
product.

Obviously, in this case, Ford ($8BB in profit) overspent to look at a leading
product. I fail to see the humour.

------
kinai
Modern car: When you need a debugger instead of a mechanic to fix your car.

------
Spooky23
Fail fast!

------
electriclove
It is true. There are issues but they have been minor and Tesla is fixing
them. My guess is that they were pushing these out by March 31st for quarterly
numbers and quality control slipped in their haste.

~~~
FireBeyond
It's a "minor issue" that your door slams into overheads because the proximity
sensor fails? Is Tesla repairing the damage to whatever was hit too?

I've heard of a whole lot of "glitches" excused away that, frankly are not
particularly excusable for a car that costs more than many people's homes.

~~~
morganvachon
If a large percentage (by that I mean 10% or more) of that model car were
having the same issues, I'd be concerned. Hell, even if 1% were it would be
grounds for a model-wide recall. But this is two anecdotal reports. TWO. I'm
not saying there aren't a few more people with these issues, but neither is it
a widespread issue (that we know of yet, based on this article).

It's my understanding as an admittedly sideline spectator, that Tesla stands
behind their vehicles and is always quick to address any issues. Granted,
these are safety issues and should receive the fastest attention possible, but
there's no indication (other than an indirect inference by one of two affected
people) that Tesla is ignoring this. They can't ignore it, because they are
too young to afford to.

I'm calling it a hit piece, or at the least, poor journalism for now.

~~~
Taek
It's like the story of the Tesla catching fire. It was a big deal, and then it
turns out that, statistically, Teslas catch fire at like 1/4 the rate of your
average car, and harm their passengers even less often.

These stories aren't interesting to me until you can statistically compare the
incidents to the malfunctions of equivalent vehicles.

~~~
brianwawok
You shouldn't get a job for a newspaper, they would go under :)

~~~
function_seven
That's not true. As long as _someone else_ writes the headline :)

    
    
        You won't believe how a flaming Tesla proves their superior safety!

------
dsfyu404ed
Doors and windows have opening and closing problems...such is life when you
swap a 460 into a foxbody or jump your XJ a lot...

------
FireBeyond
"I bought a $140,000 car that I can only get in through the passenger door. Oh
well!"

(if you didn't read, this is pretty close to a synopsis of one of the affected
customers quotes).

~~~
imron
Not quite, you left out the part where he had to drive to a meeting with one
hand on the steering wheel, and one hand holding the door closed. Oh well!

------
x5n1
Ahh growing pains. We'll see many more of these from Tesla.

------
rasz_pl
>huge infotainment screen in his Model X has repeatedly frozen.

Dont worry, Tesla put CTRL_ALT_DEL right on the steering wheel just for the
occasion (not a joke)

------
kunai
This is the pitfall of not having manual backups for critical systems.

I hope this "do-fast, shiny, fix later" culture hasn't spread to SpaceX too.
From what I'm seeing Musk wants to prioritize the look and feel of Dragon
instead of the raw functionality that's necessary in case something goes
wrong. That'd be a very, very bad idea if something were to happen. Space is
not a forgiving realm.

~~~
aerovistae
Really ridiculous connection. SpaceX has spent _years_ working on redundant
safety systems for Dragon, testing them, refining them. That's a large part of
why it's taking so long.

And if you haven't forgotten, Tesla reigns over all other manufacturers for
safety ratings. Trying to imply their cars are aesthetic and not functional
exhibits a level of ignorance on the topic that renders your contributions
essentially meaningless.

And, lastly, are you inferring this from the fact that Musk spent 5 minutes
explaining that the interior was actually pleasant and modern and well-
designed? From that, you jumped to the conclusion that most functionality at
SpaceX was taking a backseat to the interior design? I'm sorry, have you
noticed what they've accomplished? Do they seem to be slacking on core
functionality to you?

~~~
rdiddly
"Tesla reigns over all other manufacturers for safety ratings."

Is that with the doors open or closed?

~~~
aerovistae
I laughed.

