
China’s Plan to Build the World’s Biggest Supergrid - shalmanese
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/chinas-ambitious-plan-to-build-the-worlds-biggest-supergrid
======
jcoffland
I must say, as an American reading this, I've got a bit of infrastructure
envy. In the mid 20th century, the US was building out massive infrastructure.
Now it seems we are no longer capable of such projects. It may be an
oversimplification but I think the focus on running every organization like a
corporation has led to an inability to handle projects that extend beyond the
fiscal year effectively. Instead our largest infrastructure projects are
collapsing before completion due to cascading delays, political turmoil and
failed private contracts.

~~~
whatshisface
What's the benefit in modernizing the US's grid faster than it is being done
already? Nobody wants to pay more for electricity, and while the Chinese
government is motivated by the economic stimulus effect the US doesn't share
that goal. If they started tearing down and replacing power lines that today
are good enough you would have to pay for it.

~~~
jdavis703
I would gladly pay double for the price of electricity (or more precisely
double for the transmission component of the bill), maybe even triple if you
give me a hard sale. The past few falls I've been breathing in air that's more
polluted than Chinese air. The reason is because PG&E doesn't have enough
money to invest in infrastructure because the rates are kept low by state
regulators who only see "cheap power" as their mandate.

~~~
learc83
>that's more polluted than Chinese air.

What city is this? The US doesn't have a single city in the top 500. China
makes up about half of the list.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-
polluted_cities_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-
polluted_cities_by_particulate_matter_concentration)

~~~
kenneth
SF during the recent wildfires caused by faulty PG&E infrastructure (local
power utility) had the worst air quality index in the world, far beyond any
Chinese (or Indian/Pakistani for that matter) city.

~~~
snowwindwaves
If PG&E didn't start the fire something else would have.

------
Taniwha
I flew over North West China about a year ago ... at one point there were
windmills as far as the eye could see, 100s at a time ... many were clustered
around what looked like open cast coal mines and coal powered thermal plants
(likely some of the source for Beijing's pollution problems) - they're being
really smart using the same grid infrastructure for the wind energy that
they've built for coal

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melling
That will help with the maglevs, tens of millions of electric vehicles, and
tens of thousands of miles of bullet trains.

We don’t have any of that in the United States...

~~~
seanmcdirmid
China has a lot of clean energy capacity in the west, but needs it in the east
to get away from coal, where a those transportation needs are as well.

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8bitsrule
As I read the (excellent) article, I noticed that there's quite a bit of
dissention regarding the overall design of what they're building out.

"power engineers are struggling to master the resulting hybrid AC-DC
transmission system.... What has blocked full implementation is an intense
debate over the future of UHV ... State Grid’s monopolization ... the
centralization of grid planning and operation that UHV requires.... unifying
China’s grid would make it far more vulnerable to cascading blackouts..."

Probably we, on a smaller scale, should have been doing something like this at
least 10 years ago. OTOH, China is pushing the envelope ... and when we
finally decide to get off the dime, we'll know better what works. So far (I
think), we don't have any cities like Shanghai that run 'short of power for
several weeks each summer'.

------
jjcc
The title doen'st highlight enough about UHV. It's probably one of the most
underestimated game changer technology that US and Canada also should have.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Can you expound on why?

~~~
jjcc
There were many coal burning power plants generate tons of dust and smog
around increasingly electricity hungry developed areas in east and west coast
of China. Those plants are gone because the powers are transfered from far
away. Without UHV 's efficient long distance power transfer capability that
could not happen.

~~~
jjcc
Yes, that's debatable. The party and its supporters could be wrong. But that's
another topic on different premise.

The real issue here is many people make verdict based on strong belief based
on what they know from media which could be totally fabricated illusion and
insist their version of reality is only correct one cause problem.

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rb808
Is it normal for grids to be segregated? I assumed the whole of North America
was one grid, Even Europe & Asia I assumed it was all connected. Now after
reading this I'm not sure.

~~~
slashcom
Interestingly, we have 3 in North America: East, West and Texas.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Interconnection)

~~~
igravious
The article you linked to says: “The two major and three minor NERC
Interconnections, and the nine NERC Regional Reliability Councils.” and it
also says, “The Texas Interconnection is one of the three _minor_ grids in the
continental U.S. power transmission grid. The other two minor interconnections
are the Quebec Interconnection and the Alaska Interconnection.”

------
rawmodz
Wow. New York City only uses 11 megawatt/hours/day.

"It’s like we’re all still pedaling our bicycles, while the Formula 1 race car
goes flying by.” - Gregory Reed

------
jaabe
New public management and low taxation of the wealthy has been the bane of
western society for almost 50 years.

~~~
CryptoPunk
Government spending as a percentage of GDP has grown rapidly over the last 50
years. Most of that growth has been in social welfare spending.

Meanwhile, the effective tax rate that the rich pay has decreased only
slightly since 50 years, despite a very large decrease in the top income
bracket tax rate, due to fewer loopholes and deductions available in the tax
code. Their relative contribution to total tax revenue has increased on
account of growth in their share of national income.

~~~
Retric
Depends greatly on how you count. Is the Veterans Administration under
Defense, Heathcare, or social welfare? At what point does a highly targeted
tax break count as spending? How about loans? Do you count debt interest as
it’s own thing or part of what caused the debt in the first place etc etc.

The US tax code and spending is designed to allow politicians to tell very
specific narratives, making this stuff very difficult to measure objectively.

~~~
sien
For reference.

[https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-
bud...](https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-
budget-101/spending/)

60% of US government spending is on Medicare and Health and Social Security.

About 2.3 Trillion.

Interest on debt 230 Billion.

~~~
nilskidoo
Counterargument: That is a blunt lie.

[https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-
room/news/259476-ex-...](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-
room/news/259476-ex-gao-head-us-debt-is-three-times-more-than-you-think)

[https://fpif.org/americas-global-military-bases-actually-
und...](https://fpif.org/americas-global-military-bases-actually-undermine-
national-security-heres-how/)

I'd imagine maintaining ownership of 95% of all military bases on the planet
costs a little more than the 15 bucks per month my mom got in food stamps.

------
appsonify
China certainly has very challenging and unique problems when it comes to
infrastructures. The sheer size of the population, land mass, the scale of it
is staggering.

If only they could open their eyes to democracy and freedom of human
rights....then and only then will China be equipped to challenge the
American/European hegemony, ushering in a new age of pan-east asian
propserity.

In other words, same words, different empire.

~~~
nneonneo
The average Chinese today would not agree with you. Tell them about American
democracy: they see Trump and a mess of irrational, petty infighting. Tell
them about European democracy: they see Brexit and a perpetual stall in
economic development. Now look to China’s leadership: while they may lack the
freedoms of Western societies, the trade off has been such an incredible
increase in quality of life that people born in 1990 to abject poverty can be
living in solidly middle-class conditions nowadays (I know many such folks
personally!).

The Chinese people as a whole are only going to agitate for democratic reform
when (or if) their system of government stops serving them. Maybe a poor
leader will emerge and shock the country into realizing they’ve centralized
too much power; maybe the level of corruption will begin to significantly
impede growth; maybe a rise in fortunes will make people yearn for freedoms
they don’t have.

~~~
themacguffinman
They may see it that way but I'd argue it's a pretty myopic view. The US and
the EU do most things better despite their political issues. Only focusing on
their flaws is like rejecting free cash because some of the notes are dirty.

