
Ask HN: Depressed HN - lorenzopicoli
I&#x27;m fairly new in HN and I have realize that it&#x27;s fairly common post of people depressed, and even a case where a guy wanted to commit suicid.<p>My question is why are hackers so depressed? I frequent some forums and I&#x27;ve never seen this amount of people seeking this kind of help. Is it because HN is so evolving that it is the first place to come in cases like that?
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ser0
From my experience the problem is generally short lived, and manifests around
our (meaning my group of friends) mid-20s.

My assertion is the problem stems from hacker types being more introspective
(I hesitate to use the word "smarter") than your average person, which leads
to the following realisation for most of us: We are not normal enough to enjoy
a simple life of working 9-5 and partying on the weekends, but not brilliant
or lucky enough to achieve the success we would like to attain.

Realising the above means deciding to "settle" for a life of drudgery or
toiling forever with the prospect of ending up like a failed delusional
"wannabe". Both thoughts being rather depressing as we essentially struggle
with our unfulfilled ambition.

The thing is though, as I'm in my early 30s, now find that my friends have
generally found other interests in their life to find pleasure in; rather than
just being focused on career or success as a metric.

We find peace in being slightly above average, reaching mid-level management
or senior technical positions, and enjoying the stable financial environment
we are able to provide our partners/families.

Although the point is a bit after-school-special, but when you stop focusing
on what you can/cannot do for yourself but what you can do for others, there
can be tremendous fulfilment in that, which alleviates our otherwise
depressive tendencies.

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lorenzopicoli
> We are not normal enough to enjoy a simple life of working 9-5 and partying
> on the weekends, but not brilliant or lucky enough to achieve the success we
> would like to attain.

It says a lot about what I think sometimes

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lutusp
> My question is why are hackers so depressed?

Consider the possibility that this conclusion results from a sampling error.
Hackers may not experience depression at rates different than the general
population. Your observation may depend on the fact that hackers are willing
to post about this issue anonymously, where if they had to identify
themselves, they wouldn't express the same ideas.

Also, because of their technical knowledge, hackers are more likely to access
and use online discussion forums, which may make them seem to have a higher
depression rate than people less able and willing to make posts in social
media.

So maybe this is a non-issue.

~~~
jacques_chester
Like you, my suspicion is that more intelligent people spend more time
introspecting and are more open to seeking out information about mental
health. Hence they'd be overrepresented in the statistics.

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dictum
A few guesses: social isolation, physical isolation (spending all your time in
the same places, e.g. living alone and only leaving your house to go to work,
or working at home), burnout, unemployment, unfulfilling jobs, childhood
traumas (e.g. bullying, abuse), worries about the future (fear of ageism in
their fields of work, fear of losing touch with technologies or current
practices)...

HN's getting more of those posts partly because you can create a throwaway
account easily, and also because HNers have been warm and understanding of
posters who may be depressed. In other communities there's a greater chance of
trolls and griefers replying with personal attacks or suggesting suicide.

~~~
VierScar
All true.

I just want to add that even though OP may see it in HN - that doesn't mean we
have a higher-than-average depression rate. Every career will have a few
depressed people, our community is online a lot though, so it's a natural
place to ask for help.

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dutchbrit
Working on a startup isn't always as easy as it seems. You have to put so much
time and effort into it, which can burn out/depress people quite a bit. Then,
once 'completed', if you find your idea has failed, this can add a lot of
additional depression. You can also find yourself having to do all kinds of
different tasks which you don't enjoy, which take up more time than you'd
want.

Life can be tough, but being in a startup, which should essentially make your
dreams 'come true', can be even tougher.

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27182818284
Startups are hard.... (Insert your Snow Clone about shopping here)

HN has a lot of Founders_

Often when you talk about founders, you're talking about people who are
putting it all on the line. These are people who quit salaried day-jobs with
scheduled amounts of vacation days and health care for the unknown. If they
fail, not only do they go down, but their family goes down, so the stress is
very high. For that reason, I try to do a hello-world type of check with
founders at least once a week. Sometimes something as simple as "Hey, are you
OK?" can snap people out of an otherwise spiraling-down depression. Sometimes
it takes more.

Hackers in general_

It is anecdotal, but smart people in general are depressed. It is also an
anecdote shared by many—even the Simpsons made fun of this so there is a
common thought in society that smarter people are often more depressed.
Hackers typically want to solve problems. Often hackers have a better solution
to a problem, but that solution will be ignored by society. That leads to
frustration and multiple instances of frustration leads to depression.

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AznHisoka
Because we realize at the end of the day that we spent 8-10 hours a day to get
more people to click ads, buy virtual farms, help big financial conglomerates
make more money, etc.

And we have little to no control over your circumstances. Starting a startup
and getting funding relies on getting the approval of investors. Getting a
dream career depends on persuading a few gatekeepers, etc.

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thejteam
I've been here a year and a half or so. I think it is a pretty recent trend
that I've only noticed in the past 6 months or so, but I could be wrong.

My hypothesis is that an isolated post or two really resonated with people and
received good responses. People then hope that others will respond similarly
to their situation.

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mattm
From the book "Learned Optimism": "There is considerable evidence that
depressed people, though sadder, are wiser"

HN has a lot of smart people on it. It also highlights very different lives
from the average person. Sometimes, HN is not much different from
entertainment gossip magazines in that people read them and feel depressed
that their lives aren't like famous people. On HN, it's possible that people
read stories of "successful" entrepreneurs and get depressed because their
lives aren't like that. I say "successful" in quotes because it's very easy to
make anyone look successful if you just look at a tiny portion of their life.

Having dealt with this issue as well, I've developed a course that hopefully,
helps hackers to deal with these issue. It's available at
[https://www.programmingspiritually.com](https://www.programmingspiritually.com)
I'm changing it to a freemium model later this week so there's no need to
purchase it. If you want to be notified when it's available for free, just
email me and I'll let you know.

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karolisd
My guess that hacker depression some combination of social isolation and lack
of self-esteem.

For an intelligent, logical person, there are few places to turn to. And they
can post here anonymously.

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DanBC
One point not mentioned is that there are higher rates of ASD among
programmers, and that ASD is a risk factor for depression.

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retrogradeorbit
"Ignorance is bliss". Is this the opposite?

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benched
I am depressed due to social isolation, which others have mentioned, and
constant career struggles. Past attempts to strike out on my own have failed,
or just not succeeded enough. Software jobs pay extremely well, but at a cost
of having to do someone else's crap work, including having to follow
development practices that I'd never endorse myself.

As for the isolation, I'm introverted, mostly involved with a lot of reading,
learning, and thinking. I get outside to exercise, but don't have much to talk
to others about. I have no interest in the things that occupy the biggest part
of shared reality, like sports, popular TV shows, or politics. I've had many
girlfriends in the past, but could only get them and keep them by playing up a
fake personality that was funny, tough, daring, sociable. It's been my
experience that women respond best to a combination of theatrics and measured
acquiescence, and that they will give you a lot of feedback on how they want
you to be. But as soon as I "be myself" \- they're bored or annoyed and then
they're gone.

So, now I spend almost all my time by myself, and that's depressing. I wished
I belonged to something. Also, I'm 35 and my life is almost identical to what
it was a decade ago, except that my body is older and hurts more, so I always
wonder why I don't feel a sense of progress.

~~~
mb_72
I don't know if this might work for you, but what has worked for me is playing
music; as a form of meditation and especially as a form of social interface.
It might be worth a try learning an instrument, then - once you have gained a
certain level of capability - joining a band or community music group. Even on
days when I feel depressed or not like interacting with others, the social
obligations associated with learning songs, rehearsals, gigs etc force me to
look 'outside' myself. And I find my introverted personality comes across more
as 'interesting' or 'quirky' when set against a creative background. There are
many other benefits - learning an instrument is a lifetime discipline, and
there are endless depths of musical history and appreciation to investigate.
You will also come into contact with a number of interesting and inspiring
people. Music is a good counterpoint to and distraction from 'nerd programming
life'. If music isn't for you, why not something else creative in the arts
arena?

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benched
This is really good. I actually play piano and guitar. In fact, 15 years ago a
lot of my social life was incidental to guitar playing. It hasn't occurred to
me to use music this way lately. Thanks for reminding me.

~~~
mb_72
I'm happy to hear that. Music has been a constant for me throughout career /
software / relationship up and downs. Best of luck moving forwards!

