

261 MPG Volkswagen XL1 diesel plug-in hybrid - MikeCapone
http://www.treehugger.com/slideshows/cars/261-mpg-volkswagen-xl1-diesel-plug-hybrid-be-produced-limited-quantities/

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mhurron
I like my Jetta. I'll probably get another one when I look to replace it. I am
leaning toward a TDI. If VW made a Diesel Hybrid it would probably be a "Shut
up and take my money" moment.

What I'm saying is I would really like VW to come out with a Diesel Hybrid.
Given how they push their diesel cars as 'Clean Diesel' I'm surprised they
haven't already released one.

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buss
I bought a 2012 Golf TDI a few months ago. I really like the diesel engine
(that pull you feel when accelerating up a hill is exhilarating). It was the
only car I drove (in my price range) that actually made me enjoy the
experience.

A few drawbacks, though:

* The DSG transmission has a weird bug that causes some lurching at low speeds, like the transmission suddenly up & down-shifts repeatedly. Many drivers report this same issue but my dealership won't acknowledge the problem. They have been unable to reproduce it. I can reproduce it every morning when leaving the parking garage.

* Diesel is an oily fuel that does not evaporate. Most pumps I use have a nice layer of diesel coating the handle that never goes away. I now have to wash my hands after every fueling.

* The TDI engine adds a bunch to the price of the car. Hopefully the claims that the engine needs less maintenance will be true and will help offset the initial extra cost. I easily get 32 mpg with combined city and brief highway every day. On long trips it's easy to get up to 42-46 mpg, so that should help offset the extra cost too.

* Diesel is currently more expensive than gasoline, but I'm betting on that changing in the future. Diesel powers industry which should have a more constant and predictable demand curve. It shouldn't be subject to the drastic price fluctuations that gasoline sees. We'll see how that works out.

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ajtaylor
Until late last year (when I totalled it), I had a 2009 Golf TDi which I
_adored_. As you mentioned, the powerful pull of the diesel inspired many a
late night ride. IMHO the TDi is the perfect combination of power, fuel
economy and driving fun. My overall average fuel economy was ~5.5 L/100 km.

Sorry to hear about your issues with the DSG. It Just Worked for me. The 1-2
and 2-3 shifts were flawless and I could barely feel the loss in power as it
shifted. Until the last few months before my accident, I never used the manual
mode. But I discovered that switching to manual mode and leaving it in 4th
gear kept the diesel in the perfect power range (3500-4000 rpm) for fun drives
through the local mountains of northern Sydney. And even with the harder
driving, I would still end up with an average of about 6.5-7 L/100km. Very,
very impressive!

Here in Sydney, diesel is a bit more expensive than petrol (0.05-0.10 AUD/L).
But I was shocked how much more diesel cost on a trip back to the US over
Christmas. Differences of 1 USD were not uncommon. I still think that long-
term even with that price difference the diesel would work out better.

The only draw back about the TDi was the lack of immediate power from a stop,
while the turbo spinned up. I had forgotten what it was like to move
immediately until I rented a petrol car (2012 Audi A1 - and clearly inferior
to the VW Golf) for 6 weeks. You can't have everything I guess. :)

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betterunix
What's really annoying is driving a Golf TDI in an area where everyone expects
you to speed up quickly from a red light. We're talking about a second or two
of difference, yet people honk, tailgate, and otherwise behave as though there
is something wrong with you around where I live.

Not that I personally care about appeasing such people.

~~~
r00fus
As a gas-hybrid owner, I always thought that a diesel-hybrid would be the
ultimate combo - a flat-torque-curve of electric motor for snappy starts and
the thrumming late-curve power of a diesel.

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jjcm
With hybrid plug-in cars becoming more standard, I think MPG is no longer an
accurate or clear measure of efficiency. Are they saying that it gets 261
miles on the same amount of joules contained in 1 gallon of diesel? Or are
they saying that with 1 gallon of diesel and a full charge it goes 261 miles?
Needs more clarity.

~~~
coin
They are saying it gets 261 miles for one gallon of gas plus some unstated
electricity. They are counting the electricity as free. It's a completely
bogus metric. I see a lot of Chevy Volt owners claim they get 400 MPG when
they run on electricity 90% of the time.

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veemjeem
Maybe they need a new measurement like GP100M (gallons used per 100 miles). So
for the tesla, that number would be zero, but for the Volt it would be
something like 1.7 (first 40 miles is zero, but last 60 would be at 35mpg).

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coin
The electricity needs to be factored in, it's not free.

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akandiah
Why aren't more car companies to using a diesel-electic powertrain? They've
been used in the locomotive industry for decades!

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duaneb
Pressure from gas companies?

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ajtaylor
Given that hybrids have added complexity and cost, I wonder if the double
premium of hybrid + diesel is worth it. The standard VW diesels already
deliver amazing performance and economy. I would much rather see engineering
talent focusing on improving the diesel even further than moving to a diesel-
hybrid.

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xutopia
Any more information on this car? Is it in production? Just a prototype?

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mpweiher
It's the third iteration of a prototype, though IIRC it was always billed as a
prototype that _could_ actually be produced or at least be very close:
"Seriennahes Konzeptstudie".

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car>

<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ein-Liter-Auto_von_VW>

It says that they're planning a small production run of 100-1000, price
expected in the € 30-50K range (not the $600 rumored), components are quite
expensive, for example a carbon fibre body. My guess would be that they're
limiting the production run because they're losing money even at those prices.

<http://www.zeit.de/auto/2012-03/volkswagen-ein-liter-auto>

On the other hand girlfriend's several year old Polo regularly gets 3L/100km,
so around 78mpg. Every time we actually have to fuel up is a bit of a shock
:-)

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Shivetya
I figure a lease with no option to buy.

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tlrobinson
Seems a bit disingenuous to call it 261 MPG when you have to plug it in.

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coin
I agree. They are treating the electricity like it's free (cost and
environmental impact). I see a lot of Chevy Volt owners bragging about their
"300 MPG" economy. If you have a dual fuel source vehicle (hybrid) and ignore
one of the fuels, the numbers will always look good. Using their methodology a
Nissan Leaf (pure electric) gets infinity MPG. What we need is a distance per
fuels used, where fuels is all the gas and electricity.

~~~
salem
Different sources of electricity have different environmental impact, but at
least you can have a good idea of where your utility gets power from. At the
same time, you don't know if your gas came from tar sands or easy to get (but
dwindling) shallow Californian oil.

There is an electric equivalent mpg called mpg-e:
[http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/decoding-electric-car-
mp...](http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/decoding-electric-car-mpg.html)

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grumps
I believe they have been talking about this for a while. It's absurd that they
are used today. They could be ran on SVO or bio-diesel. However the USA isn't
a fan of a diesel engine unless it's in a pickup.

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cfos
Am I the only one who thinks the design of the car is retro-futuristic?

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thoughtcriminal
Nice, but I can one-up it. I've got 2X Turbo Legs that don't require plugging
in and run completely on food energy. Talk about eco-friendly!

Mind you, it runs a little slower, but I choose the planet and my children's
future over convenience and luxury.

~~~
betterunix
In some places, you cannot survive just by walking everywhere. My girlfriend's
job is miles from the nearest house, and she is not going to spend 2 hours
walking to her office each morning. Bicycle would be workable _if it didn't
involve cutting across a 55MPH highway_.

A lot of US towns and cities are not really designed in a way that promotes
non-automobile transportation.

