
You Can’t Look for a Job from a Remote Location – It Doesn’t Work - mschaecher
http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2010/05/28/you-cant-look-for-a-job-from-a-remote-location-it-doesnt-work/?awesm=bothsid.es_6WU&utm_medium=bothsid.es-twitter&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_content=site-basic
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dennmart
I disagree with this, since I was able to land a job in cities hundreds of
miles away not once, but twice. I was able to land a job in New York City
while living in Puerto Rico. I do admit, however, this was partially due to
some plain ol' luck - One of the startup's co-founders was actually travelling
to Puerto Rico on vacation, so I was able to meet him personally and have an
impromptu interview at the San Juan airport.

Two years later, I got laid off due to economic factors. This led to getting a
job in the Bay Area. I had multiple phone interviews and a short programming
test before getting the job, but I didn't have to fly over to California once.

The author does raise some good points, though. While I obviously don't have
any proof, I have always suspected that some job offers were passed over me
due to my location at the time, especially while in Puerto Rico (two
prospective employers strongly suggested that I get a visa to work in the U.S.
- ignoring the fact that Puerto Rico is a U.S. territory, making me a U.S.
citizen). So while I would say it's a bit more difficult to go job-hunting in
remote locations, it's definitely not impossible.

~~~
dannyr
"Two years later, I got laid off due to economic factors. This led to getting
a job in the Bay Area. I had multiple phone interviews and a short programming
test before getting the job, but I didn't have to fly over to California
once."

Personally, I'd be wary of a company wanting to hire me without having to meet
me in person. Inversely, if I'm running a company, I won't hire somebody I
haven't even met.

~~~
dennmart
Granted, it can be a crap shoot, as the author of this article pointed out on
his site. But I suppose this need has diminished a bit recently, with so much
information - both work and non-work related - about people and companies
available out there now. As soon as my current employers showed interest in
me, I went through the Internet to grab any piece of information about the
company I could find. I wasn't going to move 2500+ miles away without getting
a good idea what I was getting myself into. The company had been recently
well-funded, seemed stable and was heading in a good direction that interested
me. Three months in, it seems I was correct.

I asked one of the higher-ups this same question after being hired, and they
said that they scouted my blog, Twitter and Github accounts, among others, and
with what they heard over the phone, they felt I was a really good fit in
their company. Had I not taken the time to build my online persona, I doubt I
would've had been hired. This doesn't just apply to job-hunting in remote
locations, but nowadays it should be a big part of it.

------
ewjordan
Before getting upset about this, make sure you read what the author says (in
an update) near the end:

 _I specially carved out “young people” from my argument. Most young people
are infinitely mobile. Also, I need to carve out mid-level developers. They
tend to be fairly mobile. Finally, I should carve out international people. I
talk about that in the comments.

So that leaves senior execs: Directors, VP, CEO types. This is the group I’m
mostly talking about._

...in other words, this article is specifically targeted at well under 1% of
the viewership of HN (I suspect we have many aspiring "CEO types" here, but
mostly they are building up companies from scratch, not attempting to get
inserted into them once they're up and running), and explicitly excludes the
rest of us from this advice.

~~~
_delirium
It seems even for those, it must be a particular range of company types and
sizes? Large companies, from what I can tell, pay almost no attention to
location in hiring execs, and it's common for high-level execs to jump from
company to company in different cities (say, to pick an example in the news
lately, Carly Fiorina being hired as CEO of Palo-Alto-based HP, when she was
living in New Jersey at the time).

~~~
matwood
This has been my experience also. I have a friend who is a SVP at a very large
company. She lives in one state while managing offices in 6 other states and 3
other countries. This means she is either working out of her house or
traveling to the various offices. The only real requirement (and mainly to
keep her sanity) is to live near a city with a major airport.

------
janj
I just moved from Montana to San Francisco for a job I got while in Denver
looking for a place to live.

I was leaving MT and thought it'd be great to move to the Bay Area but figured
I couldn't afford it without a job lined up so I decided on Denver. While in
the process of moving, a job opportunity came up in the Bay Area (I wasn't
looking but it's the exact job I wanted) so I pursued it, not thinking I would
get it but for the interview experience. Well, while trying to figure out what
area of Denver to settle in I got a job offer. I repacked the U-Haul and
headed West. Now I'm here and loving it!

I think it's silly people still say things like "You can't do this, it'll
never happen and here's why." It might be unlikely but "never" is a pretty
strong word.

------
brown9-2
_Finding the best jobs takes a lot of commitment to taking many different
networking meetings with executives, recruiters, entrepreneurs, VC’s,
investment bankers, etc._

What type of position does he think his readers are looking for?

~~~
msuster
Director, VP, COO or even CEO roles at startups. To find these jobs the best
sources are the ones I mentioned. You don't have to agree with me: but my
empirical evidence suggests this is true. Now ... I'm clearly not talking
about developers, who seems to be the main readers of HN so I know that this
advice may not apply to many of you.

~~~
ajg1977
I think it would be beneficial to mention that context more clearly in the
article. As it is written the advice seems to be very generic which is why
many people here are disagreeing with it.

------
callahad
_If you really care about having the “perfect” job (not everybody does) then
being in-market increases your probability 100x._

That presumes that you already know _where_ that job is. The rest of us have
to do some remote searching and be willing to move when we find it.

------
kylecordes
A lot of people pointed out counter-examples to the message of this article,
and it is obviously much easier to get hired in another city in the actual
world, vs. a hypothetical world where every hiring company thought like Mark
Suster.

However, he still has a good point, which is that you're better off (more
likely to get a better job) if you move first. That leave room to succeed
without moving first.

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nhooey
At the University of Waterloo just west of Toronto, almost everyone gets a job
from a remote location during their CO-OP terms while in university, and then
also when they graduate.

I got a job in Boston from Toronto, and then one in New York from Boston.
Getting flown out to Silicon Valley or Seattle for the bigger companies is
also pretty common. It's even easier when you have a friend working in another
city. The best places to work don't care where their candidates come from if
they're good and willing to move.

I think the guy who wrote this article meant to say that it's easier to find a
local job. But he's seriously out of touch with reality if he believes it's
really hard to find a job in another city.

------
strlen
I think that may be true of executives (I've never hired an executive, so I
can't say) (1), but I don't know a single big name tech company (including
high growth start-ups) that doesn't fly talent out from all over the country
and relocate them.

That being said, the bar is always higher (even if unconsciously) for
candidates that require visas or relocation. If you're good, however, that's
not a worry.

(1) OTOH, Wernel Vogels had certainly been relocated from Cornell to work at
Amazon. I'd definitely say he has "the" job. One anecdote doesn't make a
counter example, but this example shows that if you're great, you can find a
job anywhere.

------
Mankhool
I landed a job in Dubai while living in Vancouver. I landed a job in Vegas
while living in Dubai. Then I landed another job in Dubai while living in
Vegas. If you are willing to go the distance (even on your own $) there are no
borders.

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latch
I'm just finishing up the process of getting a job in Hong Kong from east-
coast North America.

It was a successful process for the two most often cited reasons: timing and
connections.

I was specifically targeted by someone who followed my work
(blog/twitter/github)..which means I didn't have to work so hard to sell
myself on technical merits to people half-way around the world.

Also, personal changes in my life suddenly made me mobile for the first time
since graduating (a decade ago). Had the recruiting happened a few weeks
earlier, I would have said no.

------
sjsivak
I think this really depends on your situation. I was able to get a job in
Boston during my final semester at CMU, mostly because it was clear I planned
to move by a deadline no matter what.

~~~
msuster
That's because you were a student. I carved young people out of my argument.
It's mostly about senior hires.

~~~
sjsivak
I suppose, but many of my friends completing their MBA's at the time had the
exact same experience going into executive positions. I guess those people
would still be "young executives", so they don't fit your argument either. Is
this just applicable to a very small audience?

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ig1
For people involved with recruiting be aware that a lot of the questions he
describes as using may well be illegal depending on your jurisdiction.

In most of Europe asking questions about where someone grew up or family
connections to the locality can be considered as discriminatory (against
married people, against people who grew up in the "wrong" neighbourhoodm etc.)

~~~
tzs
I don't see why an employer would need to ask those kind of questions in the
first place. Can't they just check the candidate's Facebook page, Twitter
profile, blog, etc.?

Enough people have that kind of information out there on the net nowadays that
I'd expect the company to be able to find it for most candidates.

~~~
stevenbedrick
I wonder- is it the asking itself that's illegal, or is the ban on asking
simply a convenient and easy to enforce proxy for the real legal issue (using
a job candidate's personal situation or background in a discriminatory
fashion)?

If it's the asking that's issue, then, sure, Facebook/Twitter/whatever is fair
game (although I'd be curious to learn what a judge would say on the matter).
If it's the discrimination itself, however, then I'd expect the same rules
(i.e., don't touch it with a ten-foot pole) to apply.

Personally, if I were doing hiring, I'd go out of my way to remain as ignorant
as possible of any candidate's personal status, simply as a "covering my ass"
tactic. That would (of course) include avoiding the standard verboten
interview questions, but I would take it a step further and actively avoid
looking them up on Facebook or whatever. If I avoid ever learning whether or
not they have kids, I can't be accused of not hiring them on account of of
their family obligations.

------
Encosia
Considering how many traditional companies commonly offer relocation
assistance and how often we read about peoples' experience flying cross-
country to interview with tech companies like Microsoft and Google, it was
hard to take this article very seriously beyond the introduction.

------
pavel_lishin
So the advice is to move somewhere new without a job and hope it works out?

