
ByteDance plans TikTok IPO to win U.S. deal as deadline looms - adventured
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tiktok-china/bytedance-plans-tiktok-ipo-to-win-u-s-deal-as-deadline-looms-sources-idUSKBN2682NL
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someelephant
Why hasn't twitter relaunched vine? The market is very different now from when
they shut it down. I'm surprised that investors haven't demanded it yet.

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gman83
Dom Hofmann, one of the cofounders of Vine launched Byte which is basically a
new Vine:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_(app)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_\(app\)).
I don't know if it's catching on though. I guess if TikTok does get banned
we'll see a mass migration somewhere.

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iamcreasy
I don't keep up with the new social media - but I am wondering why TikTok
succeeded where Vine failed?

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umeshunni
I also think 30 seconds is just long enough to tell a meaningful story rather
than Vine's 6 seconds which was only useful for short-form comedy.

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adjkant
And note it's 60 seconds, so even more so

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AcerbicZero
Its interesting how DonnyT ran his 2016 campaign on trade with China, and now
by virtue of opening his mouth, more people than ever are aware of certain
questionable actions taken by semi-nationalized Chinese companies. I'm not
sure thats a bad thing, all things considered.

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MangoCoffee
i think someone in his administration understand China better than all the
previous. American have this belief that if you bring China into WTO. the open
trade with China and free flow of commerce should transform China into a
democracy. after 40 yrs, we see none of that. 8 yrs of Obama/Biden soft on
anything China to the point of appeasement. (Chinese expansion on South China
sea) Chinese CCP have only grow stronger and Xi have consolidated all powers
into himself. Xi is more powerful than Mao.

what we are seeing from Trump admin is 1. seperate Chinese people from CCP. i
think that hit hard to the point that Xi have to come out and said CCP is UN-
separable from Chinese people. 2. trying out how to use National security to
hit Chinese companies like what we are seeing right now and with Huawei.

it will be interesting to watch geopolitics in coming years if Trump win re-
election. if Biden win, then it just back to Obama's era policies.

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tmpz22
You make a very weak argument that Obama’s administration was soft on China.
Your only point is strategy in the South China Sea and unless you’re privy to
US Navy posturing and what our coordination with Japanese naval forces was at
that time, you can’t definitively say that it is any different now.

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MichaelZuo
Too many parties in this whole drama are too incentivized to spread FUD, or at
least not debunk it, for anyone with only public information to really
understand what’s going on.

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dforrestwilson
Does anyone think this plan actually works for the US Government?

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duxup
Depends on what you mean, there are a lot of ways to look at this.

If somehow they do get the apps banned from app stores... I suspect that would
constitute a fairly large chunk of the US cut off from tiktok.

On the other hand if you look at it from the POTUS's POV where just saying
your doing stuff means you can claim victory... he might feel he already won.

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bmitc
There is only one way to look at this, and that’s what it is. It’s the
president and his administration searching for any route to re-election and
thus abusing any power he has towards that goal. It could also be collusion in
which Trump is trying to personally profit or have supporters profit.

The security angle is theater. Many American corporations gather and abuse
much more data than any allegations against TikTok and WeChat. And if people
are really worried about foreign monitoring, then there are millions of
cameras and microphones embedded in baby monitors, pet feeders, home security
cameras, and other smart devices, all foreign made and networked. Some claims
of influence could be made in TikTok, but there’s literally nothing stopping
that from happening on platforms owned by U.S. companies, where it’s been
proven to have happened and is still currently happening. So that argument
doesn’t apply. If it does apply, it applies to a much broader app landscape
than just TikTok and WeChat.

So in the end, everyone debating this thing as if it is an actual intelligent
thing to be discussed is just adding legitimacy to Trump grasping for re-
election and another one of his chaotic moves. There are actual problems but
those are only plastered onto this whole deal by externals. The president
literally tried to treat this thing as if it was an episode of The Apprentice,
demanding payment from the sale. It’s ludicrous.

This is exactly what Adam Curtis means by Hypernormalization.

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asquabventured
How exactly does this move help him win reelection? I'm genuinely curious, I
just don't see how this action would move anyone into a Trump vote who was
previously not already planning to vote Trump.

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bmitc
No one said it is an intelligent move. Just because it is a move doesn’t
necessarily make it a good one. Trump is, hopefully, grasping for straws. He
has tried to use the virus and now trade to tie into hate brooding in the
country and use anti-Chinese sentiment to his advantage. Trump has
specifically attacked Biden as being soft on China. It’s all a ploy, just like
his shenanigans on the U.S. treasury being sent a cut of the sale of TikTok.
The fact that there are legitimate issues external but related to Trump’s
actions and proclamations does not legitimize them.

I think it’s dangerous because people are underestimating just how hateful a
lot of the U.S. is against foreigners and how whatever Trump is anti at the
moment spreads like wildfire. Americans in general do not understand China or
even how similar our government can be, and so it is easy to rally people
against it.

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Traster
I'm so confused about what's going on now. First it was Microsoft, then it was
a technology deal with Oracle, now it's Walmart? and Oracle taking a majority
stake, spinning out the global operations? Oh and Trump thinks MS are still
involved despite them saying their offer was rejected? Oh and the IPO is
planned for long after the election so wouldn't? happen if Trump loses. Oh and
meanwhile the likelihood of China letting themselves get bullied out of one of
their biggest tech successes. How much of Google, Apple, and Facebook will
have to spin off to Chinese corporations in return?

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loceng
It's more complex and nuanced than this what you've stated of course, why it's
so confusing. Arguably, aside from security risk of the CCP having access to
the data, banning apps is an leverage against the CCP having economic access
to Americans to help influence the CCP to stopping their human rights abuses.

If the CCP had allowed the United Nations to visit the prisons/concentration
camps to interview prisoners (etc) then this could have all quickly gone away,
assuming the CCP was being honest about what was happening at these
concentration camps and the UN could confirm that on the ground.

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puranjay
> CCP having access to the data

Wow, CCP will be able to slide into 17 year olds' DMs. Massive security
threat.

So much of the TikTok hysteria has been built on "CCP will have X". Is there
any verifiable proof at all that CCP is actively and illegally accessing user
data through TikTok?

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gabruoy
The chinese being able to use data to influence 100 million American lives by
determining what content is shown to people within a chinese app is a national
security threat.

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rapferreira
I'd argue it's already happening, too.

In March and April, all I saw were Trump's worst moments- his blunders, his
viciousness, his arrogance. My distaste for Trump heightened; I became more
reactive and further triggered by his incompetence. Then, back in early June,
_every_ last thing I saw on TikTok was insane forms of rioting and the worst
police brutality there was. TikTok effectively increases national attention to
things like this.

The algorithm, of course, is reacting to my behavior- behavior which surely
suggests that this is the type of content I " _want_ " to see. If I go
searching for basketball videos, I can teach the algorithm to populate my feed
with them quite easily. But I never used the search bar.

The danger of the echo-chamber, rabbit hole aspect of the algorithm _combined_
with TikTok potentially hand-selecting the types of content to push by default
to American people to stir political dissension is very much there.

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woeirua
Yeah, I'm struggling to see the connection here... _All_ social media was
absolutely inundated at those same times with those same events. Twitter was
the worst by far. I had to uninstall the app after a while because it was just
so full of negativity it was really starting to affect my mental health.

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Mountain_Skies
$50 billion market value, 25,000 employees? This is for a short video sharing
app, right? I'm confused both by the apparent market value of the company and
the number of employees proposed for the US operations. Seems orders of
magnitude off for what the app does, even at the scale that it does.

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abc-xyz
The value TikTok brings to the CCP cannot be understated.

> ByteDance has had a party committee since 2017 and is headed by CCP
> secretary and company editor-in-chief Zhang Fuping (張輔評), reported Human
> Rights Watch. Members of the committee hold regular gatherings at which they
> study speeches by Chinese Chairman Xi Jinping (習近平) and "pledge to follow
> the party in technological innovation."

> In addition, ByteDance on April 25, 2019, signed a strategic cooperation
> agreement with the Ministry of Public Security's Press and Publicity Bureau
> (公安部新聞宣傳局) in Beijing. The agreement was billed as "aiming to give full play
> to the professional technology and platform advantages of Toutiao and Tiktok
> in big data analysis," strengthen the creation and production of "public
> security new media works," boost "network influence and online discourse
> power," and enhance "public security propaganda, guidance, influence, and
> credibility," among other aspects.

[https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3982027](https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3982027)

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verdverm
CCP has increased oversight of more private companies this week as well

[https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-
tak...](https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-take-control-
of-chinas-private-sector)

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m3kw9
How does the IPO help?

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chrisjc
Potentially distributes the pain to US shareholders.

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acjohnson55
I'm about as anti this administration as they come, but I'm not altogether
opposed to some semblance of reciprocity in what China allows of US internet
companies, and vice versa. I haven't followed this specific case closely
enough to have an informed opinion of how it's being handled.

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ilaksh
I guess I am in the "crazy conspiracy-theorist" minority here but I see it as
an actual security situation.

And I believe the reason they are talking about Microsoft and Oracle is
because the intelligence agencies are suggesting that it would actually be a
good outcome if they were able to effectively access that userbase. Whereas it
is not tolerable otherwise.

Monitoring and controlling millions of people's information streams is a
national security issue. And whether people want to believe it or not, all
countries have propaganda programs.

What you see in your feed becomes your reality.

And just in case the above isn't enough to get buried, I will throw out an
even crazier theory. TikTok is such mindless garbage it's reducing attention
spans of kids even more. It may actually be making American children even
stupider.

So, to sum up, I think WWIII started with Covid and TikTok is just part two.

Just kidding. Sort of. I hope.

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dilap
You think it's dangerous to have access to social networks not under US
control?

Many governments would, of course, agree, but this is traditionally the domain
of governments seen as "authoritarian", such as, e.g., China. (Is it
reasonable China does not let its citizens access Facebook?)

