
The US says Chinese spies are targeting Boston for its tech secrets - alanwong
https://www.inkstonenews.com/politics/federal-officials-say-boston-companies-universities-are-potential-targets-chinese-espionage/article/3005150
======
Leary
The problem with these efforts is that the FBI often does not consult with
technical experts before indicting Chinese nationals and have resulted in a
number of false cases that have damaged the reputation of regular Chinese
Americans. The rate at which Asians are falsely accused are twice those of
other races[1]

[1][https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/study-suggests-
as...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/study-suggests-asians-most-
likely-be-charged-espionage-n771836)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/us/politics/us-drops-
char...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/us/politics/us-drops-charges-that-
professor-shared-technology-with-china.html)

[https://qz.com/1116990/the-aclu-says-the-fbi-is-accusing-
chi...](https://qz.com/1116990/the-aclu-says-the-fbi-is-accusing-chinese-
american-scientists-of-espionage-because-of-their-race/)

[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
srv/national/daily/aug99/sp...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
srv/national/daily/aug99/spying26.htm)

[https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-
reads/arti...](https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-
reads/article/2144652/spying-charges-against-chinese-american)

~~~
arcticfox
Surely the FBI should be held to account when they make mistakes or behave
unfairly, but it seems absurd that they shouldn't consider connections to
China when looking for Chinese espionage.

~~~
Eric_WVGG
If you’re wondering why you’re being downvoted, read up on Soviet espionage
during the cold war. Money talks.

~~~
arcticfox
I wasn't downvoted, and surely Chinese tactics will evolve over time to match
those of the Soviets, but the majority of the Chinese espionage cases that
I've seen so far have involved ethnic Chinese.

For example, Walter Liew stealing the titanium dioxide formula (with help from
paid off non-Chinese), or the engineering student in Chicago sending off
recruiting profiles...all Chinese or Taiwanese.

------
cryoshon
of course they're targeting the Boston area; our city is the country's nexus
of research and development in a plethora of fields, our culture is welcoming
to foreigners at a time when most areas of the US are positively hateful, and
we're large enough that expats can find at least a few others from their home
country if they so choose. it's the perfect place to learn and network whether
you're a spy or a jobseeker.

my main question is what can we realistically do about the problem of chinese
spying while preserving the integrity of our institutions here. we have
chinese expats sprinkled heavily into all of our research groups, tech groups,
you name it -- and it is my assumption that the overwhelming majority of these
people are innocent of any crime, so it wouldn't be acceptable to subject them
to additional scrutiny. these people are valuable members of our teams and
we're lucky to have them in the quantity that we do.

i'm not sure what the right move is here -- it's just my nightmare that the
federal government / FBI implements some hamfisted policy that damages
Boston's primary economic activities.

------
brixon
This is nothing new. The defense contractors working with the university have
clear rules on how and what they can share with which people.

~~~
alanwong
What's new is perhaps the China Initiative, something that the US Department
of Justice announced late last year to focus on curbing Chinese economic
espionage. Now the leader of this initiative has named Boston as a "target-
rich environment."

Here's an official factsheet (PDF):
[https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/file/1107256/download](https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/file/1107256/download)

------
ravenstine
China has some areas where they innovate, but they primarily excel at
_copying_.

~~~
jhpriestley
All innovation starts with copying what came before. This is why liberal IP
laws are so important to innovation. HN readers seem to understand this basic
point quite well unless China is involved.

~~~
jplayer01
Except China as a state isn't our ally or friend. Their interests lie
primarily in furthering their own political and military power, and
secondarily benefiting their own population. They're more than eager to steal
technology, then use that new-found knowledge and ability combined with
massive government subsidies to drown out foreign competitors locally and
abroad.

~~~
magduf
>Their interests lie primarily in furthering their own political and military
power, and secondarily benefiting their own population.

How exactly is that different from the US? I don't see US politicians in power
trying to do things to benefit their own population, such as by providing
universal healthcare.

~~~
seppin
You're not wrong, it's a common criticism of democracy. Except China is not a
democracy, they act only to protect their own grip on power (and keep their
stolen party wealth).

------
ben7799
Kind of puts getting recruiting emails from Huawei about their imminent Boston
office opening in a new light.

Just seeing their executives get charged with international crimes is enough
to avoid replying.

~~~
sitkack
I wouldn't want to work for a corp that doesn't have the right political
muscle to avoid the charges. Halliburton, Exxon, Boeing, HSBC, etc, won't be
charged.

~~~
magduf
Yep. Huawei didn't do anything except probably insert spyware on their
devices, and they're being charged with crimes. Boeing _killed_ hundreds of
people through criminal negligence, but I'm sure we won't see any executives
there charged with crimes in the US.

------
SketchySeaBeast
All my fears of knife wielding robot snake dogs chasing me down hallways are
becoming realized.

------
slackfan
Inkstone News, owned by the South China Morning Post, which is owned by
Alibaba Group writes an article about what a US official says.

Hmmm...

~~~
sandworm101
Yup. An article is only on part of any media campaign. I think it also safe to
assume this HN discussion is being cataloged, if not actively manipulated, by
those who created this article.

~~~
alanwong
I created the article! Trust me when I say I'm not cataloging this discussion
or actively manipulating it.

(EDIT: deleted "with my colleagues" because another commenter says it sounds
like something other than reporters working with editors to put out an
article.)

~~~
sandworm101
>> I created the article! Trust me when I say I'm not cataloging this
discussion or actively manipulating it.

I don't see any version of "alanwong" on the article. We have a political
piece written by a journal/website/news source that is apparently owned by a
Chinese company and authored by a woman named "Viola Zhou". Now we have
someone calling themselves "alanwong" claiming to have created the article but
whose name appears nowhere on said article. This looks like team effort to me,
a badly executed one.

(Alanwong claims to be the editor, not author, but I don't see the editor
listed on the website)

~~~
alanwong
Few sites list editors of an individual article these days. Here's my author
page. [https://www.inkstonenews.com/author/alan-
wong-0](https://www.inkstonenews.com/author/alan-wong-0) My role is also
listed in my hackernews profile. Try searching my name and Inkstone. You'll
find me and my relations with Inkstone. It's all one search away.

------
neilv
I'm a bit uncomfortable with ideas like this being promoted in the popular
press so much recently.

Spy-vs-spy is something that, for better or worse, nations do. It seems a
complicated and delicate matter, and outside the experience of most of us.

In the Boston area, we have a wealth of colleagues, neighbors, and friends who
arrived here from around the world. We welcome and appreciate them.

Ordinary people suspecting others, because of something they heard in the news
(or amplified in some right-wing outlet), seems unfair and toxic. We've even
seen recently that it can be deadly, when a violent mentally ill person is
inspired.

I think the international spy business can best be left to the professionals
(diplomats, intel agencies, law enforcement, corporate security), to handle
discreetly, and the rest of us can just get along.

~~~
sailfast
I agree that general "All Chinese are spying on you!" is not a helpful
message, but nation-state espionage, generally, is not a bad thing to be aware
of overall. The article also doesn't seem to fear-monger so much as call out
recent espionage attempts while also citing the difficulty of detection
because most folks are here for the right reasons.

As for "leave it to the professionals", you left out a key component from your
list - the people doing the work - doing the research, building the devices.
Engineers, professors. The people doing the work are the first line for any
social engineering or simple vector attacks. Anyone that works with this
information reads and signs things but if they haven't really been tested or
understand the consequences, maybe they forget.

Having a reminder that it's OK to be impolite when somebody you don't know
asks you overly specific questions you're not supposed to share is not always
a bad thing.

~~~
neilv
When I said "leave it to the professionals", I meant to cover the workers
indirectly when I said "corporate security". Corporate security personnel
shouldn't be getting operational info from popular press.

~~~
sailfast
Agreed, but corporate security is also not out at the bar on a Friday. One
would hope that facilities security folks would at a minimum be briefing
people, but that stuff costs money, and probably doesn't happen as much as it
should.

------
Hillsborough
As part of the discussion, the following article may be interesting too:

[https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-
too/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/)

