
Argentina says abnormal noise heard after submarine's last contact as hopes fade - wslh
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/23/argentina-says-abnormal-noise-heard-subs-last-contact-hopes/
======
nwrk
Let me express deep solidary and hope for the crew and families.

On technical note, I keep wondering with all the technology available
(satelites, sonars, airplans, thermo, etc.), how is it possible that they are
not able to find / detect it ? Understand weather conditions are rough.

And this is the case of multi nations collaboration (best of the best ?).

Looks like submarine is very very powerfull attack vector. (?)

EDIT: Update from Guardian

"Justifying the delay, navy chiefs said that military protocol advises a
48-hour waiting period before beginning search efforts for submarines lost at
sea."

[0][https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/22/search-for-
mis...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/22/search-for-missing-
argentinian-submarine-enters-critical-phase)

~~~
Cyberdog
> how is it possible that they are not able to find / detect it ?

The ocean is a very large thing, especially when it needs to be searched in
three dimensions.

~~~
icelancer
>>three dimensions

This is definitely the big snag people lose themselves on. They are thinking
about the search being in two dimensions, like a map. They aren't thinking
about lost ships or planes in three dimensions; a formula squared vs. a
formula cubed and how much faster the latter gets out of hand.

~~~
averagewall
But we know it's either on the bottom or the surface right? It needs to use
power to balance in the middle somewhere.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
It doesn't need to use power. Ballast tanks are a thing.

But irrelevant to the point. Submarines are designed to be hard to find in an
environment which very nature already makes things hard to find due to there
being so much "stuff" in the way

~~~
tbihl
But realistically it's not going to be neutrally bouyant while submerged.
Nonetheless, a much harder task than 2-D x2...

------
squarefoot
As someone who knows nothing about submariners, I wonder if they could have
"reprogrammed" a torpedo to explode at a safe distance shortly after launch,
that is without a target, in order to produce enough noise and attract
attention in their area. Could seismograph networks or satellites pinpoint
such an event?

~~~
tbihl
The biggest issue I see with this: they presumably suffered a loss of all
electric, and in that case they're going to have limited pressure in their
hydraulic systems. Hydraulics are probably responsible for both steering and
torpedo launches, and you're going to give priority to maneuvering in this
situation.

------
nasredin
This reminds me of Kursk, the Russian sub.

Specifically the third-world government fumbling the response to the missing
submarine.

Considering the USN had two deadly above-surface collisions recently it is
either a miracle or speaks to the professionalism of the submariners in
avoiding these deadly accidents. (Unfortunately not in this case)

~~~
nradov
During the Cold War there were multiple underwater collisions with Soviet
submarines.

[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/nuclear-
subm...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/25/nuclear-submarine-
collision-cold-war-cia-scotland)

[http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/1992-russian-
nucle...](http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/1992-russian-nuclear-
attack-submarine-slammed-american-sub-18735)

~~~
cmdkeen
Usually because the Western submarine was tailing them at the time, a
fundamentally risky business.

There was a collision between UK and French SSBNs on patrol a few years back,
and indication as to how quiet they can be - and SSBNs warrant the absolutely
best ASW technology and techniques. An SSK, like the one missing, that has
lost power isn't going to be making any sound at all unless the crew are doing
it. If it is on the bottom you're essentially going to have to do a sea bed
survey. The UK's Holland 1 submarine was lost under tow in 1913 only 1.5 miles
outside Plymouth breakwater and remained undetected until 1981.

------
teniutza
My total knowledge regarding submarines is practically 0. I have a (somewhat)
technical question that I hope my better qualified fellow readers can answer.

Are there any "distress call devices" which are/could be used in such
situations? If not, what would the technical difficulties be, for creating and
vertically launching a torpedo equipped with a beacon? If the sub is unable to
move and/or broadcast, the beacon would begin transmitting when reaching the
surface. I would imagine that launching such a beacon (visual & GPS & ...)
would reduce the search area.

~~~
koliber
There is a device called an EPIRB that is often carried on sailboats. It is a
floating radio transmitter that contacts a global satellite network in case of
emergencies. It transmits a distress signal as well as its location.

It can be manually activated. It also activates automatically on contact with
water.

I would imagine it would be possible to create an EPIRB-like device for
submarines.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
Submarines do have the EPIRB. This submarine was also confirmed to be equipped
with one. One of the reasons that this disappearance was weird was that there
wasn't even a trace of the EPIRB activating on this sub so we're not even sure
if it "sank"

[https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/us-
na...](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/us-navy-sends-
underwater-robots-to-assist-in-search-for-argentine-sub/)

------
Boothroid
Whatever happened I hope for the submariners' sake it was quick.

------
averagewall
For those of you who feel sad for strangers that you never knew existed until
now, why not direct your feelings to something productive like looking through
local obituaries and contacting their survivors to show some support and
kindness? There are real human beings dying all around us but they don't have
dramatic movie-style deaths so we don't care. Even better, don't wait till
they're dead. Go and seek out old, sick, and lonely people and make them feel
better.

I think news-cycle internet sadness drains our capacity to care about others
while also doing nothing for those who died or who're genuinely sad about it.
The sinking submarine is interesting, the people on it aren't.

~~~
cgmg
That sounds like a false dilemma.

~~~
averagewall
Not false - we have limited capacity to care about people so we have to make
tradeoffs. If anything, just because of the time it takes up. More people die
each day than we could even name if that was our full time job. That's not
even counting the possible emotional limits on people.

So why not spend your limited caring on someone who's ignored by the world and
didn't even put themselves in danger, even better if it's someone who's not a
professional killer like these victims were.

