

Show HN: I'll help you name your next startup/product for $50 - chaosmachine
http://startupgods.com/
Hey HN. This is a weekend project of mine. It's an idea I had after seeing so many comments here about the lack of available .com names for startups.<p>As PG once said: "Take a luxury and make it into a commodity"[1]. So, I decided I'd try turning name consulting from something only large corporations could afford to something anyone could. I hope you'll take me up on it :)<p>If you'd like to see a few examples of my work, just check out the links in the footer. Thanks for your attention.<p>[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/ideas.html
======
chaosmachine
This is a weekend project of mine. It's an idea I had after seeing so many
comments here about the lack of available .com names for startups.

As PG once said: "Take a luxury and make it into a commodity"[1]. So, I
decided I'd try turning name consulting from something only large corporations
could afford to something anyone could. I hope you'll take me up on it :)

If you'd like to see a few examples of my work, just check out the links in
the site's footer.

[1] <http://www.paulgraham.com/ideas.html>

~~~
middus
Did you take into account how much time it will take you to process a non-
trivial order? $20 seems quite low to me when you want to achieve a good
hourly rate.

Maybe you should bump it up a bit (> $50). It would still be a commodity
price.

edit: By the way, I totally love the design!

~~~
chaosmachine
Thanks, you're right, I've increased the price to $50 for new orders.

~~~
tptacek
$50 is also too low. Price according to the value you generate. You generate
obvious value in three ways:

(1) Company operators waste tons of time coming up with names. SWAG the number
of hours you think people typically take to settle on a name (it took us
several days). Back that out to a dollar figure by dividing the typical yearly
salary of a _funded_ company operator by $2000 and multiplying by hours.

(2) Companies frequently rename. Put a dollar figure on the cost of a company
rename 6 months in, then multiple that by the percentage risk you think the
typical company has of renaming (how many renames do you see? how many
companies do you think there are in your market?).

(3) Better names generate business (or, they ostensibly do). By the way, I'd
probably use Mint vs. Wesabe as my primary example here, since both sides
mentioned Mint's name as a key asset.

There is no way these three factors add up to just $50.

A side benefit of charging something closer to your value is, working with
people who think $20 is OK but $50 is too much will absolutely inevitably
cause you heartache. The people that think $50 is too much are going to be bad
customers (as a group). For any business, be it outsourced order management
for prop trading firms or hobby figurine sales, $50 is a rounding error.

Geeks have a hard time remembering that pricing isn't just about optimizing
customer acquisition vs. customer value. It's also a key component of your
positioning. If you charge hobbyist rates, you will serve the hobbyist market.
Look at graphic design. It is very possible to get good-looking illustration
done near your price point, but _impossible_ to get it done by anyone with a
reputation. Designers that serve real companies charge multiple orders of
magnitude more just for piecework. And real companies wouldn't dream of
slumming with the $50-$100 illustrators, even when those people have more
talent. Pick the market you want to serve, and then tailor the price point to
that.

~~~
sssparkkk
Apparently you missed the part where he quoted PG saying: "Take a luxury and
make it into a commodity"

It's because he's charging a commodity price that I decided to give it a go
and pony up. I would never _ever_ pay the going rate for a 'professional' in
this business.

~~~
tptacek
No, I got that part, and also the part of his positioning where he said "name
consulting was previously only available to big companies and we want to make
it available to smaller companies".

Pricing isn't a binary decision between "cheap" and "nosebleed". This is
another geek pricing pathology.

I think $50 is too cheap. I think, if your market is "people that actually
need names but are smaller than PepsiCo", there are very few three-figure
prices that aren't rounding errors. Why would he want your business? How many
entities are there like you, and how often do they pony up for names, and how
much does it cost to support them?

~~~
sssparkkk
Well, in our case we would normally just come up with a name ourselves. But
because 50 dollars is worth a shot we're giving him some business. And
something tells me there might just be more people in the same situation as we
are. But I guess we won't know until he lets us know how many from HN decided
to give it a go.

~~~
tptacek
If DHH went with HN's take on what Basecamp should cost, he'd be racing Honda
Civics instead of supercars. Is my point.

------
perlgeek
It would help if you showed some project descriptions, and the names you have
found for them (of course with consent from the customers), as a kind of
portfolio.

~~~
jdp23
Agreed. Eventually you want to get to something like
<http://www.thenameinspector.com/portfolio/>

------
PanMan
Maybe I'm cynical, but because you emphasis the "money back" part, it feels
more like a scam. I was sort-of half expecting an auto-name-generator:
"$randomstring.com is still available!" If only 10% don't ask their money
back, you make a profit. I once heard about a "baby gender predictor", with
money back guarantee, which just always emailed you "Congrats, it will be a
boy!". About 50% right :).

~~~
shou4577
Maybe a bit off-topic, but this scam has always intrigued me. You can, in
fact, do better than just "Money back guarantee!" You can do as much as, say,
"We'll give you your money back, plus an extra 50% of the fee!" So your
"customers" pay $50, and if you are wrong you give them back $75. You still
make $12.50 on average per customer by guessing randomly, so long as you scam
sufficiently many people.

~~~
waterside81
This is precisely how sports handicapping services work. Every week, 50% of
your customers are happy and return, the other 50% are unhappy and _might_ not
return.

------
huhtenberg
> _Finding a good name is hard. Finding an available domain name is even
> harder. Fortunately, we do both. Really well._

and then you probably meant to say...

> _Here are the examples of the names we created:_

followed by a list of really good names.

------
dbro
You could do more to get the potential customer comfortable with your product.
7 days and $50 is a lot to request of people, when there is competition for
this service. It looks like one of those competing tools was created by you,
<http://impossibility.org> . And for full disclosure, I am working on a domain
name suggestion tool too: <http://domainjig.com>

During testing, I learned that many different opinions exist about what makes
a good domain name. So while you may have settled the matter in your own head,
you should take care to set expectations for your customers. A quick list of
domains you think are good (perhaps also domains you think are not good) would
help people see if they agree with your priorities.

For instance, I've heard differing opinions about the importance of these
characteristics:

.com only vs other Top Level Domains

fewer characters vs simpler concepts

distribution mechanisms: SEO, ads, word of mouth

misspellings, or non-obvious spellings

similar style to recent successful startups

country-specific registrar risk

combine TLD letters into the word

non-english languages

adjective + noun

rhyming / puns

describes the product and/or a tone

As an example, this article describes priorities baked-in to the domain name
suggestion tool at domainjig.com : <http://domainjig.com/ideas/great-domain-
names.html>

btw, I like the eyebrow raise on mouseover.

------
Ygor
Did you read the naming philosophy section? This bit is interesting:

"Think about this scenario: You're at a party and someone asks you where you
work. If you say "I work for shoes.com," it's pretty obvious that you work for
a website that sells shoes.

But, if you say "I work for shoe.ly," then you have to go on to explain it to
them: "It's a website that sells shoes." If you owned the .com, everyone would
already know that."

------
Jun8
This is a very cool idea, but I would lose the whole Zeus thing, it gives an
air of adolescence to the site. Also,

* Saying you'll find the perfect name is a bit of a stretch, what does "perfect" mean in this context? Is _google_ a perfect name?

* When you say results are guaranteed, you mean the customer will like it. However, in most cases, the founders liking the name has little bearing on how good the name resonates with customers, that's what's important (read pg's discussion about their initial agony when their cool name for their startup was taken, their original choice sounds horrible) . I think you should provide a methodology, even a simplistic one, to help people decide which one is better.

* If you don't have a portfolio yet, which I assume since you say this was a weekend project, do analysis on 5-10 company names (if YC the better), and explain why they are good using your methodology. This will give you credibility. Show that you are the expert in this field. Right now, it looks like another name guessing site.

------
edw519
startupgods.com? I dunno, you look like a plumber with a leaky faucet. I'd
have a little more confidence if you had a name more like
"PerfectNameFinder.com" or something like that.

~~~
chaosmachine
I own PerfectAlias.com as well, but I felt StartupGods.com was more brandable,
and would capture the attention of my target audience.

~~~
xutopia
StartupGods > PerfectAlias. Perhaps it is because my first language isn't
English but French. To me alias means second name.

~~~
Dobbs
It means the same to those of us with English as a first language.

------
goombastic
How about an India price? I'll do it for 20$. As a starter, here is a free
name for anyone to register:

nameonic.com: rhymes with mnemonic and is a great name for a names company.

Let's see how long the name lasts.

UPDATE: The name was just registered. Thanks Guys. wow that was fast. 32
minutes standing.

~~~
subbu
Looks like the negative feedback about the name didn't stop someone from
registering it. Any other good names?

~~~
goombastic
Lots. Just ask. Having registered serial sites with clever names, this is a
hobby.

------
fezzl
Have you heard of <http://www.pickydomains.com>?

------
kgtm
Thank you for this post, as it inspired me to charge myself $50 and come up
with a name for a venture of mine. Just bought instarchive.com, neat!

------
tomeric
We were John's first customer. It was mostly an impulse buy because it was so
cheap.

We have a restaurant guide in The Netherlands with a dutch name (eet.nu,
translates to eat.now) with a big community of reviewers. We want to expand,
so a international name is required.

If we brainstorm about names, it takes up a lot of time and we're never
completely satisfied with the results. Naming stuff is hard, and it's even
harder if English is not your first language.

After 4-5 hours of waiting, John gave us a list of 14 names (we got 7 bonus
names!), and we picked the name HungryJury.com. Registered the .com and
twitter account a few minutes ago.

We're pretty satisfied with the service and will probably use it again in the
future!

------
cnu
You should also try to do twitter handle availability.

I think I saw a website long time back which checked a username availability
across many websites and social networks. Can't remember it. Can someone help
me out here.

~~~
thehodge
<http://www.usernamecheck.com> :)

------
shazow
Wish you were around when Jen and I were wrecking our brain coming up with
imoveyou.com (from getupandmove.me).

We kept asking ourselves "surely there are people who are good at naming
things, WHERE ARE THEY?!"

------
shrikant
Was it always $20 as the HN headline says? The website says $50 now...

~~~
derrida
... and he just changed the HN headline to $50!

I did the same double take, thinking the price changed. They changed the
price! Sneaky!

~~~
Maakuth
You have to appreciate though, that $50 is still a modest price if the service
is as good as it claims. Just look at domain squatter prices, you get pretty
much nothing with $50.

------
xutopia
Alright I'm testing you out. 50$ for a great name is an awesome price point
imo. It's just enough that I find it expensive but small enough that I'd pay
for it. With a money back guarantee I'm glad to test the waters.

~~~
xutopia
I'm replying to myself to give you some feedback. After the checkout process
it would be nice to be given a time frame that I can expect an answer by.

~~~
chaosmachine
You should have received an email within a few minutes of your order with
timeframe information, can you let me know if you got it?

------
acabal
I'd like to use this--I have a site I soft-launched recently that I'd like to
rebrand--but without examples of names you've come up with in the past, it's a
hard sell for me.

I know I can get my money back, but I really would rather not do that... I'd
rather only make the buy if I can be reasonably sure I'll be happy, instead of
having to make you work and then ask for my money back if it turns out we have
separate styles.

------
mise
I spent $900 naming on a non-profit startup. F __k.

------
redstar504
I think startupgods.com is a cool name for this business. Nice layout also. If
I had a new business in mind I wouldn't hesitate to try your service. The
money back guarantee makes me feel comfortable, but I am just curious on the
amount of refunds you will be processing - I guess it depends on how creative
you are at naming. Please report back with results.

------
hucker
Will you be publishing any names you come up with, so potential customers can
see for themselves if they like your "style" or not?

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paradox95
Seems to me like a good way to farm start up ideas. Willing to sign an NDA
before I give you my idea?

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anthonys
I was about to give this one a try but it seems the price has gone up to $100
now!!

I hope thats as a result of demand because $50 was at a level that I didn't
think twice, but $100 has made me reconsider. Hopefully for your sake I am the
minority then!

------
jwomers
This is super cool. I haven't signed up yet, and obviously haven't seen the
quality of the results, but it's a great idea, and definitely something I
would pay for for my next project. (Naming is definitely one of my weak
points)

~~~
AndrewS
I agree, although I'd love to see some results or examples (and I must admit
I'm a little pessimistic). I hope to see some on the website soon :)

~~~
jwomers
That's true.. When anyone gets some results page from this, would be great to
post them here for the rest of us to see.

------
kingofspain
This sounds like a great idea. I find shortish domains all the time and try
and squeeze an idea into them, but I have real trouble finding something
properly appropriate (for .com anyway). I've signed the forms :)

------
mindcrime
Sounds cool. I have a company name already, but I may need (a|some) product
name(s) later... when I get to that point, I may give you a shot. I mean, it's
$50, with a money-back guarantee, what's the harm?

------
kevruger
Wow, ok $100 now? Must be getting some pretty serious orders to jump from $20
to $50 and now to $100? Good for you. I'm with the rest of them though, I'd
like to see some results/examples!

------
VladimirGolovin
Do you check candidate names for possible trademark conflicts? (I understand
that you are not a lawyer, but at least some preliminary checking would be
nice.)

------
ZoFreX
So what happens if I pay, say I don't like the name you come up with, and then
buy the domain and launch with it anyway?

~~~
minus1
I presume you get a free name and an unpleasant nagging feeling from your
conscience. It's probably not worth the effort to try to prevent this in the
beginning.

~~~
dagw
I suppose they could take $10 of the $50 you paid them and register the name
before sending it to you, and if you like it they'll transfer it to you. If
you don't they'll give you your money back and try to sell the name to someone
else. But, yea I guess the hassle of doing this probably isn't worth it in the
beginning.

------
sheats
Great idea! I was just racking my brain last night for a good name so this is
a great service to have available!

------
jmacd
Tried to order. Not working. Got an error and now I get "state not valid" when
I try to place the order again.

------
jules
You should give some example names you came up with. This is like going to a
designer without a portfolio.

------
reason
I'll do it for $40, and have a few who can attest to the awesomene-ness of the
domains I suggest.

Email is in profile.

~~~
roel_v
I don't see your email in your profile?

------
listrophy
<http://www.namingthingsishard.com>

------
sagacity
Cool!

At this price, I'm sure many will go for it.

One quick question:

Do you check/ensure the .com domain availability of the names you find?

~~~
chaosmachine
I do. Dot com availability is one of the major items on my checklist.

~~~
sagacity
Double cool!

One suggestion, though: A quick look through your home page did not reveal
this. You might want to revise the copy to mention this (prominently).

HTH

~~~
edanm
Don't know if it's already been changed, but it's pretty prominent right now.
It's the 3rd sentence of the "What do I get" section (and it's in bold).

------
jsatok
Just signed up for a project of mine, excited to see what you come up with.

------
thesis
Just submitted our order. Should be interesting to see the results.

------
sjaakkkkk
ok, anyone actually got a good name? Would like to do this if it ain't a scam
and i can verify someone got their money back when not satisfied..

------
Mankhool
Why not just crowdsource names on HN?

~~~
tomotomo
There's a site for that: <http://www.needanym.com/>

------
RyanONeill1970
I was so impressed, I bought one!

------
jorkos
point me to a few happy customers and i'd be happy to try it

------
Tyrant505
I will too!

------
someguy777
lol... you do know people pay branding companies $10,000 per name to do this
right?

~~~
AdamTReineke
Hence his comment about making a luxury a commodity.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2257574>

