
Increased sedentary behaviour alters metabolism and body composition (2018) - bookofjoe
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29671031
======
mrzimmerman
"Walking good, sitting bad."

But seriously, I think this sort of adds to the pile of evidence that even
small amounts of exercise on a regular basis has marked health impacts.

I'm a Type 1 diabetic so I have the benefit of a sensor that continuously
tells me my blood glucose, so I can see the difference between when I'm
walking on a daily basis to and from the office, and when I'm working from
home. Same breakfast, very different blood glucose averages on those days.

It is worth noting that exercise of almost any kind causes my insulin to
potentiate, so that is part of why my glucose levels are lower. But I wouldn't
be surprised to hear that my over all insulin sensitivity is higher on walking
days (as I gather from this study) which helps to drive my lower glucose
numbers.

~~~
johnchristopher
What kind of sensor do you have ? I am not diabetic but I'd like to monitor my
sugar level somehow.

~~~
mrzimmerman
I use the Medtronic Guardian Plus because it ties into my insulin pump which
then regulates how much background insulin to give me. Dexcom, as mentioned in
another comment, is a standalone sensor that doesn't tie directly into a pump.

All sensors that I know of are invasive though, so they have to be replaced
every 7-10 days, which requires a needle and other things to cover it.

You could also just buy a glucometer (though you'd need a prescription for the
test strips, at least in the US) than test once or twice a day and keep a log.

~~~
dhruvkar
>>you'd need a prescription for the test strips

I've bought them on Amazon before, no prescription required. This is to
monitor blood sugar right?

~~~
vo2maxer
To be covered by health insurance, glucometer testing strips have to be
prescribed.

------
DoreenMichele
Walking and the lymphatic system

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551311](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20551311)

The underappreciated role of muscle in health

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8748147)

I live without a car. I have no desire to change that fact. My condition is
incurable. Running errands on foot plays a critical role in staving off
deterioration that, among other things, puts me at risk for a form of
diabetes.

~~~
justinator
Right on. Strength to you.

------
viburnum
Rebuilding the world for the comfort of cars was probably a mistake then.

~~~
_jal
Don't worry, that lesson has been learned. Now, the plan is to rebuild the
world for the comfort of robot cars.

------
Bootwizard
"Public health recommendations promoting physical activity should incorporate
advice to avoid periods of sedentary behaviour."

How do we interpret and apply information like this? Many people work in front
a computer these days so it can't actually be applied to them (read us).

~~~
hombre_fatal
Where there's a will, there's a way.

At first I was known as that pushup guy at the office, then all the guys did
it with me. It was almost a joke. "Alright, it's pushup time!" and my group
did pushups. We even got a pullup bar installed. Some people preferred to take
those times to walk a lap outside.

If we're going to generalize about what can/can't be done at a software
developer job, punctuating the job with some brief exercise is in the "can"
camp.

~~~
ravenstine
Unfortunately, there are workplaces that will remove things like a pullup bar
because it's seen as a distraction.

~~~
sterkekoffie
I would be pretty distracted if there were people using pullup bars and doing
pushups in my office...

~~~
hombre_fatal
If your office consists of just one big room where everything must happen,
then pullups/pushups are probably the least of your distractions.

~~~
Nuzzerino
As someone who worked in an office with these exact characteristics (complete
with a pullup bar), I can vouch that in my case, the pullups were indeed the
least of the distractions. The pool table next to all of us was the big
problem. High quality noise cancelling headphones did not help at all.

------
JohnJamesRambo
I love the phrase metabolic derangements. It accurately conveys how completely
abnormal the changes are.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
It seems melodramatic to me. And these abnormal changes can be mitigated by
walking those 10,000 steps a day they reduced their activity by. That requires
a conscious effort, but it's not an onerous burden.

~~~
ska
It is not melodramatic, it is a technical term being used properly.

You are perhaps thinking about the psychiatric usage implying a significant
mental disorder, but here it just means that the system (i.e. metabolism) has
been disturbed in its function, e.g. that it is out of normal range.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
Pendantically yes, and yes, it describes the problem, and used medically it's
not melodramatic, but looking at the original comments text:

> It accurately conveys how completely abnormal the changes are.

that would make no sense in the medically accurate context. Derangement being
used as "something disturbed in its function" is literally anything being
wrong, no matter how minor. It doesn't have to be "completely abnormal",
merely abnormal by some means. The post I was responding too clearly doesn't
believe it to be a minor dysfunction and wasn't understanding it in the
technical context either.

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
It's not a minor dysfunction.

>Pooling data from both groups, following step reduction there was a
significant decrease in whole-body insulin sensitivity (Matsuda index) (p <
0.001), muscle insulin sensitivity index (p < 0.001), cardiorespiratory
fitness (p = 0.002) and lower limb lean mass (p = 0.004). Further, there was a
significant increase in total body fat (p < 0.001), liver fat (p = 0.001) and
LDL-cholesterol (p = 0.013), with a borderline significant increase in NEFA
AUC during the OGTT (p = 0.050).

Those are incredible p values to find in a human study.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
But, as I original pointed out, it's mitigated by maintaining a non-extreme
level of activity - throwing on ~10,000 steps is the difference here.

~~~
ska
The fact that the fix is relatively easy is not really a measure of how far
off things are - some pretty terrible disorders have easy fixes...

------
conistonwater
Does anybody understand why some of the numbers are so out of proportion with
the length of time spent in the study? They say they lost 0.2-0.3kg of muscle
mass in the lower half of the body. But that's a very large change; when you
exercise and train properly, the maximum amount of muscle you get is like
0.5kg/month (the study's reduction in activity was two weeks long), and when
you gain weight some fraction is always muscle (they didn't gain weight but
they gained fat mass and lost muscle mass, IIUC from Table 2).

I remember reading that when you start/stop exercising, your muscles retain a
different amount of water depending on how much work they typically do. So is
what they got an actual change in body composition?

When they report lowered VO2max of 2.2ml/min/kg, that's ±4.7 according to
Table 2. Isn't 2.2ml/min/kg an improbably large change for two weeks, compared
to how quickly your VO2max will improve if you, e.g., start running? And why
is the SD on that so large?

------
vincent-toups
There is a good chance you aren't being paid enough to sit at that desk all
day.

------
bbeckerman
I don't have access to the article - does anyone know what they mean by
"sedentary"? From the abstract it looks like there was an 80%/10k reduction in
steps taken, which would mean these are people taking ~12.5k steps a day. Is
that what they mean by active, or was there a requirement for, e.g., vigorous
cardiovascular exercise?

~~~
throwaway8941
It's open access.

[https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00125-018-4...](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00125-018-4603-5.pdf)

>Physical activity was assessed in participants’free-living envi-ronment. A
mean daily step count >10,000 was required forparticipants to be eligible.
Screening was blinded and consistedof monitoring from midnight to midnight on
4 consecutivedays, including 1 weekend day. If eligible, participantsunderwent
their initial assessment visits before being instructedto reduce their
activity to ~1500 steps for 14 days

>Mean daily step count was similar between the two groups at baseline: FDR+ve,
12524 ± 2137 vs FDR−ve, 13036 ± 2481 steps (p= 0.391).

>During the step-reduction period, average daily step count decreased by 10285
steps(95% CI 9389, 11182;p< 0.001), a reduction of 81 ± 8%. Inparallel, daily
sedentary time increased by an average of223 min (151, 295;p< 0.001) and daily
total energy expen-diture (TEE) decreased by an average of 2697 kJ (3008,
2385;p< 0.001). All activity >1.5 METS (i.e. light, moderate andvigorous)
decreased during the step-reduction period (allp< 0.001).

------
nradov
If you can handle owning a dog, that's a great way to force yourself to get
out and walk or run a little every day.

~~~
justinator
If you can't afford a dog, a full sized mirror could be a wise investment.

~~~
tmb
A full sized mirror that leaks onto your carpet if you’ve not walked enough
could be a venture.

------
bigmit37
I wish these articles tried to look for a solution. Would standing and waking
every 45 mins be good enough? Would standing and then moderate intensity at 45
mins be good enough etc.

What about eating less and more fasting to combat sedentary.

What about a balance board while standing?

~~~
jp555
I wonder if your time would be better spent progressive-overload deadlifting
2x a week?

I don't think you can undo sitting 50-100 hours a week with a few hours of
walking any more than fasting a few hours would make up overeating for a
month. I'm thinking we need a BIG acute stimulus to counteract a sustained
chronic stimulus of inactivity. The dead lift is a VERY BIG stimulus.

~~~
762236
Similarly, if you are cycling, rowing, running, cross-country skiing, etc.,
with high intensity, you need to recover. You can recover while sitting at
your desk working on your computer. How much recovery can be estimated with
TRIMP, and TSS if you have measured your power output.

------
kingrazor
I'm a living example of this.

------
notadoc
Obvious studies crack me up.

It is a shame that PE is continuously being removed from many K12 school
curriculums. If you get people into the habit of exercising and being active
when they're young it's much easier to maintain that habit into the future.

~~~
viburnum
The only thing most kids learn in PE is that exercise is awful and sports are
only for jocks.

~~~
notadoc
Most? Sounds like your own experience, but that is not the norm

------
jbverschoor
So when do we get danger money like troops and guards?

------
iikoolpp
On one hand, my body is probably fucked from laying in bed for 18 hours a day,
every single day, a year.

On the other hand, moving about is exhausting and hurts so why would I want to
do it? I fully plan on killing myself before 30 so it's not like I'll see the
knock-on effects.

~~~
WhompingWindows
Why are you lying in bed for 18 hours a day? Is it depression or another
illness? Don't kill yourself just for turning 30, I am 30 and life keeps on
keeping on, just as decently as before. Sure my hair line is a bit receded and
I get a bit more aches and pains, but by and large it's the same as before,
except I have a stability and future set up that I had only dreamed of at 23.

~~~
brbrodude
31 and skating almost everyday, strongest, most handsome & probably most
youthful I've ever been since beginning adolescence. Do Recommend.

------
adameast1978
I am all for science but I am really curious why we need studies to prove
things that are this obvious and simple. Hell just with thought experiments,
basic thermodynamic principles and a little Anatomy and Physiology alone you
conclude most of these things.

~~~
ska
Thought experiments based on basic principals and our still too weak
understanding of bio-phys can (and have, time and time again) lead you to an
awful lot of plausible but wrong conclusions.

There is no real substitute for doing the science.

~~~
adameast1978
Really we need to do a study that says when you exercise less and sit around
your body fat increases specifically in your internal organs. I think this is
common sense and how fat accumulation works. This has been proven in the past
and should be common knowledge. Insulin dependence related to this makes a
little sense for a study but it is pretty well accepted that being obese
increases your risk of type 2 diabetes. The fact that if you create a calorie
deficit you will lose weight/body fat and if you don't you will increase
weight/body fat is simple yet there is a diet industry built on fads and a
bunch of over educated people with too many degrees in non physical science
fields pushing their ideals so they can make money.

