
Ask HN: How do you transfer money internationally? - BigCanOfTuna
I&#x27;m an independent developer living living Canada with some clients in the US. I am paid monthly by cheque in $US and I am looking for the most cost effective way of converting that money to $CAD.<p>I&#x27;m interested in hearing about banks, brokers or even using something like bit coin as a means of currency exchange.
======
throwaway_32948
If you are converting large amounts and you are comfortable with purchasing
and selling stocks online then a viable option is to use Norbert's gambit.
This involves buying stock in companies traded on both Canadian and US
exchanges, such as TD. You buy on one exchange (in your case on a US
exchange), journal over to the other exchange, and then sell on other
exchange. With the right online broker, journaling is automatic, and the
entire process takes a few minutes to complete.

The final costs for the exchange are the trading fees (typically $10 per
transaction for an online broker), the bid-ask spread, and any fluctuation in
price between the buy and sell price (this can be in either direction---gains
are taxable). Fluctuations over periods of a few minutes should be small for a
highly liquid and stable stock. Always use limit orders to protect against any
unusual events such as a flash crash.

There are lots of links found through a web search that describe the process
and which Canadian online brokers make this easy to do. Also see
[http://www.northernraven.ca/financial/NGcalculator.php](http://www.northernraven.ca/financial/NGcalculator.php)
for a calculator that helps you select which stock to use. You want to select
a stock with high liquidity (typically translates in a low bid-ask spread) and
also a high unit price (to minimize the relative bid-ask spread cost).

The calculator at the link above shows that using today's prices to convert
$10k can save about $80 versus a 1% currency conversion cost by using one of a
number of stocks.

~~~
ashray
Why not just use a forex broker instead? Better rates, lower spreads, and
higher liquidity. I would personally recommend Interactive Brokers.

~~~
throwaway_32948
For large transactions, I don't think it's true that rates are lower using a
forex broker. In the limit of large transactions, Norbert's Gambit fees
approach the bid-ask spread cost, which should be lower than any forex fee.

For example, according to the calculator, converting $100k saves about $350
versus a 0.3% conversion fee. Even converting $10k is cheaper than 0.3%. What
are Interactive Brokers fees?

Another reason is that you don't have to transfer your money out of your
accounts to a third party. Everything happens within your brokerage accounts.

~~~
ashray
Interactive Brokers is your own brokerage account, they are a regulated broker
that offers Forex in addition to the other stuff (stocks, options, etc.).

I'm not 100% sure on the fees but they are not even close to 0.3% for forex.
It's pretty much around $2 for most trades (their example covers: USD 50,000
daily volume for EUR = USD 2.00). Here are the details of the fees:
[https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=commission...](https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=commission&p=fx1)

I think the reason IB charges are so low is because they deal with very large
customers (banks, trading houses, etc.).

~~~
throwaway_32948
I looked into Interactive Brokers in more detail and you are correct that
their fees are extremely low. They do not seem to charge a hidden "spread"
fee, which is they usual method that forex traders hide their fees.

Based on some googling, there are secondary fees to consider such as minimum
monthly fees and wire transfer fees, which might make it more or less
attractive than alternatives depending on conversion amounts and regularity of
transactions.

You mentioned that you use Interactive Brokers. Are you a Canadian citizen
living in Canada that transfers money into and out of an Interactive Brokers
account, exchanging USD and CAD?

~~~
ashray
No, I'm not Canadian living in Canada but I'm sure they have deposit options
(local banks) in Canada. I have used it to convert small amounts of money
before.

My email address is in my profile if you want to get in touch with more
questions :)

~~~
throwaway_32948
I asked if you are a Canadian living in Canada because the devil is in the
details when dealing with cross border transactions as a Canadian.

After some further research, it does seem like Interactive Brokers is a good
option for the OP. For posterity, here are two blog posts by a Canadian
describing how he uses Interactive Brokers:
[http://blog.plsoucy.com/2012/11/best-way-to-convert-usd-
to-c...](http://blog.plsoucy.com/2012/11/best-way-to-convert-usd-to-cad-save-
on-fees/) and [http://blog.plsoucy.com/2013/03/converting-usd-cad-
interacti...](http://blog.plsoucy.com/2013/03/converting-usd-cad-interactive-
brokers-howto/)

------
namenotrequired
I'm honestly happy with Transferwise.com. You can get a free transfer with an
invitation link, here's mine:
[https://transferwise.com/u/5d78](https://transferwise.com/u/5d78)

~~~
kcorbitt
I'm living in the UK and am paid in USD in the US. My wife and I investigated
a bunch of options on how to bring the money to the UK as cheaply as possible
and this was the best one we've found so far.

~~~
coherentpony
Hmmm, this
person<[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137337>](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8137337>)
seems to have trouble doing exactly what you're doing. I wonder what the
difference is.

------
cik
I have the same exact problem - living in Canada, with the same conditions.
The reality is that it depends on the client, but here's what I do.

1\. RBC has a USD account for $9/month. It's the cheapest in the country. For
clients who insist on paying by ACH or cheque, that allows me to take USD
inbound and hold them as needed.

2\. I use a money changer (persepolis work, as do several on King Street)
simply because the DIFFERENCE on the exchange can be as high as 1.5%, which is
a little nuts. It's not automated (sadly), but companies like Freedman will
pick up cheques from you - if you're not already downtown.

3\. BTC + Coinbase. Some people are more than happy enough to pay in BTC. That
in turn makes it easy to get other currencies without the pain.

#3 is by far the most cost effective - especially if you deal with the
occasional non-US currency, as I do. The reality is that items #1+#2 combined
helped me shave hundreds of dollars in exchange fees.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Is that for a linked account? I'm currently paying $0.50 per month for my CIBC
USD account.

~~~
mr_november
$9 is for a USD business account - your $0.50 is likely for a personal
account.

------
footpath
How are you currently depositing the US cheques? Both TD[1] and RBC[2] offer
cross-border banking accounts, meaning that you can open a TD/RBC account in
Canada and a TD/RBC account in the US and link them together, which should
allow you to transfer funds between them at an optimum rate. You should be
able to deposit US cheques with their smartphone apps. The issue with this
approach is that you will have to maintain two bank accounts that you may have
to pay monthly fees separately or maintain a minimum balance.

There should also be some banks in Canada (including TD and RBC) that offer US
Dollar accounts, such as this one from Scotia[3] that seems to offer direct
deposit, so maybe look those up as well.

Otherwise, foreign exchange sites like XE or Xoom may be an option as others
have mentioned here, but I'm not too familiar with them.

[1][http://www.tdbank.com/personal/cross-border-
banking.html](http://www.tdbank.com/personal/cross-border-banking.html)
[2][http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/cross-border-
banking/index.html](http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/cross-border-
banking/index.html)
[3][http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/0,,59,00.html](http://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/0,,59,00.html)

~~~
graeme
I use RBC US (RBC Georgia) + XE Trade. Results in 1-2% more money. As long as
you can wait 3 weeks to receive it, it's a good option. Transfers are free.

~~~
psychometry
I recommend XE as well. You can transfer using EFT, which saves you money in
wire transfer fees a bank would normally charge you. You'll also get the best
exchange rates from them.

~~~
preinheimer
We've also had tremendous success with XE.

Cheaper (lower fees + better exchange rate) than the bank, I can do it all
online.

I've blogged about our experience here:
[http://blog.preinheimer.com/index.php?/archives/418-Paying-a...](http://blog.preinheimer.com/index.php?/archives/418-Paying-
across-borders.html)

------
rb2k_
I use three ways for Germany <\--> US transfer:

1\. Charles Schwab

I didn't know that before signing up, but my US Charles Schwab account has
Banks all over the world that I can just wire money to, use my US account
number as the "subject" of the transaction and it will magically appear in my
US account. No fees, good exchange rate. That way I can get the Money from
Germany to the US

2\. Currencyfair(.com)

They have great exchange rates. You basically send money from Country A to one
of their bank accounts in the country A area (e.g. SEPA) and then buy the
foreign currency on their site (quick or marketplace) and transfer it out.
Very minimal fees, great rates.

3\. Debit Cards

My German credit card and my US debit cards (among them: Schwab) allow me to
deduct money from ATMs for free. Both of them don't charge any fees (no cash
advance for the German ones) and allow me to do so internationally.

I'd say just get a US Bank account from Charles Schwab the next time you're
over there. I got mine 4 years ago without having a SSN or a work visa, just
using my passport. I guess this is just possible if you do it "in branch"
though.

------
mmesh
I've used TransferWise ([https://transferwise.com](https://transferwise.com))
several times to move money from SEK to USD, but it seems they don't support
CAD yet.

Super easy to get started, and very low fees.

~~~
jasonkester
I just tried this yesterday, but ran into a wall: To transfer USD to GBP, you
need to get your bank to initiate an international wire transfer.

If I could remotely trigger a large international wire transfer from my bank,
I wouldn't need a 3rd party service.

Living abroad, requests to transfer money are usually met with "just step into
a branch and we'll take care of that". But my nearest branch is 2,000 miles
away and I'm not planning to step anywhere near there in the next year or so.

The best I've gotten is "then just overnight us a notarized letter", which
works, except for the part where Notaries are mostly a US invention so the few
existing overseas ones will happily charge you $150 to put their stamp on the
document. ... which the bank will then find some tiny flaw with (when the
FedEx package trickles through their mailroom a week later) that can be
corrected by simply overnighting a new notarized letter.

It's infuriating.

~~~
mseebach
With all due respect, are you sure you're doing it right? The entire raison
d'etre of Transferwise is cutting their bank-run international wire transfers
out of the loop.

~~~
jasonkester
That's how they work everywhere except the US. For us, we have to do a
BIC/IBAN transfer to an account in Estonia. (Just re-checked the instructions
they mailed me yesterday to verify that's the case.)

If they had a US account you could do with ACH, life would be easy. But they
don't.

------
abhididdigi
I am surprised nobody here use XOOM
([https://www.xoom.com](https://www.xoom.com))

~~~
KevinBongart
I've been using Xoom to send American dollars to France every two weeks for
three years now, it works great, reliably, the interface simple, polished and
offers a lot of useful features, the pricing is cheap and there's no surprise
fees. Highly recommended!

------
vilius
OT, but may be useful if someone is looking for cheap ways to transfer money
within the EU. [https://transfergo.com](https://transfergo.com) \- offers
transfers to bank accounts for a fixed fee of 2,5 GBP.

It works by issuing local payments, which are much cheaper. You make a local
payment to TransferGo account in your country. In turn they use their foreign
bank account to make local payment to your recipient.

------
yrral
I've heard co-workers using interactivebrokers to do so. I found a blog post
about it here [http://blog.plsoucy.com/2012/11/best-way-to-convert-usd-
to-c...](http://blog.plsoucy.com/2012/11/best-way-to-convert-usd-to-cad-save-
on-fees/)

The fees are essentially max($2.50, 0.01%) but there's some restrictions (min
$10k deposit, $10 monthly fee)

------
tsyd
I've been happy with XE Trade
([http://www.xe.com/xetrade/](http://www.xe.com/xetrade/)) for USD/CAD
transactions.

------
hellodevnull
Back when it was beginning to get difficult to buy Bitcoin in the UK (when
MtGox and Intersango stopped accepting bank transfers) I used TransferWise, a
p2p currency exchange, to send money to European bank accounts as an
alternative. For example, BitStamp was based in Slovenia, so I'd send money
directly to their European account. Without a service like TransferWise I
would have to spend £25 with every Bitcoin purchase (that's how much my bank
charges for an EU transfer), versus £1 with TW.

Unfortunately now you can't even deposit into European bank accounts that are
related to Bitcoin... but anyway it's a really cheap way of sending money, not
all currencies are available yet though (no CAD) but keep an eye out.

[https://transferwise.com/](https://transferwise.com/)

------
Someone1234
I use a company called "XE Trade." It is an absolute nightmare to set up (due
to all their anti-fraud stuff). However once you do it is pretty straight
forward to utilise and they're paid via a "spread" (i.e. imperfect exchange
rates) rather than a fee.

It appears cheaper than both PayPal and my bank, however it is up to you if
the savings is worth the hassle of setting it up. Once it is set up you
transfer money to their local bank account (within your origin country), and
then at the destination country they deliver it via bank transfer from an
account there, so you need a normal bank account in both source and
destination (i.e. no Western Union style use).

I believe HSBC also offer free intercountry account transfers as long as you
own both accounts.

------
erikb
The best strategy I (German) use with Chinese friends is giving money to one
person in Germany and letting a family member of them transfer the
corresponding amount inside China. This way you can save on most of the fees
and your ability to transfer money basically gets down to how much Guanxi
(relationship value) you have.

~~~
statguy
The good old hawala
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala))
:)

------
myhf
I used to use CurrencyFair, and loved the easy, fast, transparent process
(with a view of how much money is available to buy/sell at each price point).
But they closed to US residents.

Now I have to use XE Trade, and never really know how long a transfer will
take or what exchange rate it will settle on.

------
eduardo_f
I'm very happy with Kantox for B2B transfers. It has a matching option that
side-steps banks and brokers:

[http://kantox.com/en/how-it-works-kantox](http://kantox.com/en/how-it-works-
kantox)

------
shenoybr
1) You could opt for a plain old wire transfer between accounts, I think the
banks charge $15 for that, but its almost immediate. 2) Or you could deposit
the check in your Canadian bank account. Although, in this case you'll have to
wait for the banks to clear your check. 3) Or if you have a bank account in
the US, you could use an online service like Xoom.
[https://www.xoom.com/canada/send-money](https://www.xoom.com/canada/send-
money)

------
tim333
I use Interactive Brokers. I have an account with HSBC Canada and a UK
account. It was the cheapest way I could find to transfer ~ $500k but might be
overkill for smaller amounts.

------
melvinmt
I use Xoom.com every month to transfer money back "home" (US -> NL) and it's
way cheaper than an international wire transfer ($5 vs $40) and more
convenient too.

------
MargotT
Transferwise would be great for you. I've used it for a couple of years now
transfering money from pounds to euros. It's super quick, cheap and easy to
use. This service uses the exchange rate which is quoted on reuters and asks a
tiny 0.5% fee.

With the below link you will get your first transfer for FREE:

[http://transferwise.evyy.net/c/88623/126664/985](http://transferwise.evyy.net/c/88623/126664/985)

------
pearkes
BMO has American dollar accounts[1]. That way, you can convert only what you
need. Or, when you feel is the best time due to rate fluctuations and so on.

Additionally, if you ever travel and spend money in the US, you can spend in
US currency, again avoiding exchange rates.

[1]: [http://www.bmo.com/home/personal/banking/bank-accounts/us-
do...](http://www.bmo.com/home/personal/banking/bank-accounts/us-dollar)

------
jdtb
We're in this exact situation. Canadian Company with mostly US clients. We
have a USD and CDN account through TD which allows us to deposit checks and
receive wires in US funds if needed. From there we use TDFX to transfer funds
between the two accounts as needed. TDFX gives pretty good rates on the
exchange and there is no transfer fee. For example the spot rate I just got
was 1.0916 USD --> CDN

------
Sambdala
If you can have both US and Canadian accounts, I'd deposit the USD in your US
account and use TransferWise to get CAD which should save you on fees.

------
Spoom
I use CustomHouse (
[http://onlinefx.westernunion.com/](http://onlinefx.westernunion.com/) ) to
transfer money to my Canadian account when necessary. That said, I live in the
US so I don't have to transfer a huge percentage of my income, just enough to
pay my Canadian student loans and credit card.

I would look at the RBC USD accounts if I were you.

------
ericol
Bitcoins. I live in Argentina (yep, right) and work for an UK based company. I
recently set on buying bitcoins in Europe (using localbitcoins.com) and them
selling them to Argentinian buyers on the same site.

There's a huge gap between the regulated dollar rate and the street price, so
the loss is negligible (I used to just extract the money from an ATM)

------
JoshTriplett
The simplest solution would be to find a Canadian bank that will accept check
deposits denominated in USD. Second easiest would be to have banks in both
countries, deposit into the US bank, transfer, and withdraw from the Canadian
bank. In both cases, ideally you could set up direct deposit.

------
vehementi
I'll be in this situation soon and was hoping to be able to use Norbert's
Gambit: [http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-
th...](http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-the-complete-
guide/)

------
brentm
I use FX Payments from American Express
([https://fxpayments.americanexpress.com](https://fxpayments.americanexpress.com)).
It's "only" $35 per wire. It's a bit of a process to set up but works well
once up and running.

------
mlakewood
I've found citibank, apart from thier not great website, have a pretty good
deal. I have a US account and an Oz account and transferring between then is
instantaneous. The obviously take a cut on the exchange rate, but its been
pretty good IMHO.

------
Lunatic666
I'm looking for an affordable way to transfer money from Singapore to Germany,
but so far the cheapest is sending the money to a VISA or Mastercard. It's
fixed S$10 per transfer and it's instant transfer, very handy.

------
refurb
You live in Canada and get paid in USD? Just deposit the check in your bank.
It take a while to clear (up to 30 days), but the big Canadian banks give
pretty good exchange rates since they exchange a lot of USD -> CAD.

~~~
HNJohnC
" but the big Canadian banks give pretty good exchange rates "

 _Not_ this sadly.

~~~
plsoucy
They really don't (unless you compare them to PayPal, I guess). They take 2-3%
of commission to convert your funds, which would mean that they charge you
$200-$300 for currency exchange on a $10,000 payment.

If you want to convert your funds at a "Big" Canadian bank, please do so at
Tangerine, which has the best rate I found (they take 1.45%) - otherwise,
there are plenty of other suggestions in this thread that could help. The best
rate will most certainly be with Interactive Brokers (max(0.01%, $2.50)), but
the account set up is a bit tedious and they have a few restrictions.

~~~
refurb
Of course you have to comparison shop, I have no doubt some of the big banks
will take advantage of the uninformed.

That said, it's much easier to convert USD to CAD in Canada, then CAD to USD
in the US. I had an account at a small regional bank and if you were
converting less than $100 of CAD, you'd be lucky if you got 2/3rds of the
actual exchange rate.

------
eswat
For Canadians that have looked across all the banks, why did you choose the
one you’re now with?

I have both a CAD & USD account with Tangerine but the lack of wire transfer
is hurting now, so looking to switch over to another bank.

------
aharonovich
I do my best to stick to Paypal, since it has the majority of my international
financial history it saves me the trouble of reconciling several accounts. If
(when) they support Bitcoin/Ether it will be perfect.

------
goodJobWalrus
I have found the best one for GBP to CAD to be:

torfx.com

When I had actual physical cash that I needed to hand in, I found the best
rates withL

[http://www.interchangefinancial.com/](http://www.interchangefinancial.com/)

------
kourt
I have used ozforex.com.au for business; they have a consumer-oriented branch
[http://www.tranzfers.com/](http://www.tranzfers.com/)

~~~
faster
A friend of mine used ozforex.au while he was living in France, working for an
American company, and wanted income to show up in his Australian bank account.
He said it was quite painless.

------
maaku
Bitcoin.

When that is not an option, I use a bank that has zero foreign transaction
fees, and refunded ATM fees. First Republic Bank's ATM refund account, in my
case.

~~~
Xophmeister
BTC seems a bit volatile as a vehicle for transferring between currencies. I
personally would want something much more stable if I were transferring any
significant amount. If it was just on the order of holiday cash -- and it was
convenient to find buyers and sellers -- then maybe, but it seems a lot of
trouble to go to!

~~~
maaku
Volatility means that sometimes you make money on the float as well.

------
marcosdumay
Have you tried asking your bank manager?

Yes, there'll be fees, and it's not as interesting as bitcoin. But it's not a
hard thing to do.

~~~
mseebach
He probably has, which is why he's now asking for a _cost effective_ solution.

~~~
marcosdumay
Does he want to transfer it in $10 transactions or what?

Even here in Brazil, where external commerce is completely disincetivised, my
bank asks $50 a transaction (the most expensive one).

~~~
mseebach
$50 might be the best price on offer, but I would consider it infuriating to
pay a $50 tax to the bank on each and every pay check _on top of the 3%_
currency spread they probably already charge.

$1200/year in bank fees just to get paid every two weeks? It's real money in
comfy western Europe, in Brazil it's surely a fortune?

------
canterburry
Western Union: One of america's oldest companies and does one thing only:
money transfers all over the world!

------
alagappanr
I've been using Xoom for money transfer to India. For amounts larger than
1000$, there is no fee.

------
himanshuy
I use India specific services which are ICICIDirect and XOOM.

------
Thiz
Bitcoin or any cryptocoin.

------
chroman
I use Paypal + Payoneer.

~~~
fractallyte
I used Paypal _once_ (UK -> Canada). The rates were better than any bank could
offer, and I have a verified account. The transfer - not a large amount - went
without a hitch.

But then a week later, out of nowhere, my account was suddenly 'limited', with
the requirement that I send a copy of my passport and latest bank statement to
the US. I enquired and got a canned response.

I have not complied. Two years later, my account is still locked, and there is
no way to shut down my account. Never used Paypal since; and I never again
will. I hate them intensely.

