
Ask HN: I am about to be fired. What should I do? - s_q_b
I am currently a data scientist for a major firm, and I am facing a manager who wishes to fire me.<p>He assigned me to follow the instructions of an &quot;expert&quot; in completing a compliance document (a task in which I am not trained), and the &quot;expert&quot; turned out to be producing documents that are not in compliance with Federal law. The &quot;expert&quot; repeatedly stated in writing that I was doing an &quot;excellent&quot; job, and I am concerned I am facing retaliation for reporting that her work was simply not correct.<p>When I raised that issue, he immediately began the process of putting me on a 30 day review, a necessary step prior to termination. Such programs are ostensibly to give an employee an opportunity to improve performance.<p>When I asked whether this was a true opportunity to improve performance, or simply a formality, he hesitated for a great deal of time before making statements that strongly implied, without directly stating, that it was a mere formality.<p>I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired would place future job prospects in jeopardy.<p>According to my colleagues, I&#x27;m very competent at my position, but this supervisor has been angry with me since I pointed out to him a few months ago that he may have violated firm policy in a severe way.<p>What should I do? I would like to remain with the firm and be transferred to another project, but the steps he will take will prevent that.<p>I do not wish to move, and if fired I will be effectively blackballed from most firms in this city. I have a life, friends, a girlfriend I love very much, and don&#x27;t wish to leave that behind.<p>HNers, whether or not you know it, you&#x27;ve been a big part of my life since this site&#x27;s founding. I value your input and advice tremendously.<p>What do I do? Do I simply begin looking for other positions? Do I report his increasingly erratic behavior, and waste of firm resources? Do I quit before the period expires?<p>What are your thoughts?
======
fsk
I've been unfairly fired several times, so my advice is:

1\. Forget it, that job is over, it can't be salvaged. Knowing it's over, do
the minimum work.

2\. Start actively looking. Even if you don't find a new job within 30 days,
you'll start getting interviews in your pipeline.

3\. If it's so bad that it's making you sick (trouble sleeping, etc.), then
just walk away now. Otherwise, there are advantages to saying on to the end.
They might offer you some salary as severance. You might be eligible for
unemployment. Even if they do fire you, for legal reasons, they'll probably
word it as a layoff rather than a firing for cause.

4\. I'd advise against a whisteblower lawsuit. It's a lot of stress with no
guarantee of winning.

5\. Don't be sure that you'll be blackballed. There's always another job.

~~~
hackuser
> Knowing it's over, do the minimum work.

I strongly disagree with this step. Ensure your performance is exceptional,
flawless, and that everyone sees it. It's hard to do, hard to keep focus and
not slip when everyone else is misbehaving, but it pays off:

1) It keeps your hands clean. Others won't know the inside story of why you
were let go; if they see you slacking, they will doubt your character and work
ethic and believe it's your fault. If they see exceptional performance they
may give you the benefit of the doubt. You want them wondering, 'how could
they fire him/her?'

2) It leaves a strong impression with everyone, possibly even your boss, of
your work ethic and professionalism: 'Even knowing he/she would be fired, look
what he/she did'. A crisis is a chance to show your quality.

3) It keeps your hands clean, which means you can sleep easily in the future.
Don't do anything you will question later. Be proud of what you did and that
you rose above your manager and the situation. Having been in similar
situations, it made a great deal of difference in my self-respect and peace of
mind down the road.

~~~
serve_yay
I think this puts too much emphasis on what people will think at the place
that is about to fire your ass. If it's coming, vamping won't save you, and it
probably doesn't matter much what those people think, in either direction.

~~~
fsk
I meant things like "don't put in unpaid overtime when you're about to be
fired" and "when nobody is looking, scan job ads on your cell phone". You can
still do a solid job, but don't be as aggressive as you would be if you
planned to work there 2 more years.

For example, if you have a choice between doing a 5 minute patch or spending a
couple hours refactoring it correctly, just do the 5 minute patch.

~~~
RogerL
But why? What does this get him?

In two years (say) he will be interviewing somewhere, and sitting across from
him will be the person that had to deal with the aftermath of that 5 minute
patch. Or, it could be the person that had the pleasure of working with his
refactored code. Which situation is better for him?

Not to mention that this situation is not the fault of the company or his
coworkers. Why should they suffer?

I don't see a single thing that this attitude will accomplish other than
"vengence", which in my book is something to avoid, as appealing as it may
seem at dark moments.

------
eranation
My tips.

1\. never criticize your boss, your company or their practices, this is number
one way to get fired. yes even if they are completely wrong. your sole job in
your job is to make your boss look good. I know it sounds unpopular but this
is the way people get promoted vs fired, kind of obvious, but many people
still think that if "They do the right thing" that they are clear. This is not
something HR will tell you and is against all of our beliefs, but it's the
case. If what your boss did is illegal, leave an anonymous tip to the police
with evidence making it hard to link it to you but keep private proof that you
sent the tip so your are not abiding a crime if it later goes to court.

2\. your job quality is derived by 2 factors - a) whether you do something you
love, b) the quality of of your direct manager. In your case your boss is an
asshole, and you should leave the company regardless.

3\. I'm really worried to hear things like "if I get fired, I'll never work in
this town again". Where do you live? How powerful is your boss? As a hiring
manager, I never got an email list with a subject "people who should never
work in this town again".

4\. Reporting your boss to HR is a huge risk, it has very low changes of
succeeding, but if HR really likes you and really dislike your boss, and you
are really a valuable asset to the company more than your boss, than there is
a small chance that you'll "win" and get him fired. 9/10, it's going to be you
who will be shown the door, but YMMV.

I say - go look for another job, find a manager that will not be a jerk, in a
company that promotes openness and good culture. I can't imagine that a data
scientist, one of the most sought after and trending jobs in the US will have
hard time finding a better job. Am I being delusional?

~~~
hnnewguy
> _" I know it sounds unpopular but this is the way people get promoted vs
> fired, kind of obvious, but many people still think that if "They do the
> right thing" that they are clear"_

We need _more_ people to prioritize "doing the right thing" over "getting
promoted", not fewer.

~~~
eranation
let me put it this way, I was doing the "doing the right thing" approach and
it hurt me personally, yet I still try to do the right thing, but not via
direct criticism, there is an art of how to convey improvement suggestions and
feedback to your boss, in tl;dr it is say something good, say constructive
criticism, end with something good, and do it all in private.

I never encountered a criminal violation though, so I don't know what I would
do, if I would I think I might just tipped HR anonymously and if my boss would
like to take me down with him / her, I'll just deny frivolously. Luckily I
have a great boss and a great company, but I'm telling you, even the worst
bosses and companies still want to be good ones, and if you choose how to give
feedback in a way that will not sound too critic, you will win.

~~~
wpietri
Yeah, I second that.

I used to think it was important to "tell the truth" by which I meant saying
the things I thought were important to say. In the end, I recognized that was
more about me and my feelings than anything.

Now my goal in bringing up some unpleasant but important thing is to make a
difference. If I'm going to make a difference, _saying_ the truth isn't the
important thing. It's getting somebody to _listen_ to the truth. That is
definitely an art.

------
kelukelugames
1\. Do not talk to anyone else in the company about this issue. Do not trust
HR or legal.

2\. Document everything. Write down the conversation you had with your boss
word for word. Go do that right now.

3\. Save proof of the violations. Save proof of you reporting it. Save your
"excellent" job reports. It will be harder for them to justify firing an
excellent employee.

Realize that data loss prevention software will tell the company you saved the
examples.

4\. Consult with an employment lawyer. In fact, go see two or three.

5\. This is the most important step. Find a new job. Pretend everything is
okay so you don't come off as desperate.

~~~
EliRivers
_Do not trust HR or legal._

Oh God yes. Everything they do, _everything_ , is about protecting the
company. They will lie to you, they will screw you over, and anything you say
to them will be used against you in some way.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
I'm a little surprised that everyone is saying "avoid HR" (I have no
experience with being on the wrong side of management or HR, yet). Can anyone
comment on whether this is US specific or if it applies equally in western
Europe?

~~~
kelukelugames
Let's say you are a female employee and a college hire calls you a sexist term
during a meeting. Then yes, by all means go to HR.

However, if your manager did something inappropriate in private then whose
side do you think HR will take?

~~~
EliRivers
_Then yes, by all means go to HR._

You will be labelled as a troublemaker. That college hire will be in trouble
as well (not for what he did, but because he has made the company vulnerable
to action), but your record will be marked (almost certainly not literally;
they're not stupid enough to outright leave actionable evidence like that).

------
bdcravens
> I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired
> would place future job prospects in jeopardy.

First of all, you're not going to work here forever. You'll let laid off, or
get pushed out in an acquisition, or find a better gig down the road, or get
fired for cause. No one stays at a job forever.

Secondly, don't place so much faith in your "permanent record". Yeah, getting
fired can impact you, but not as significantly as you think. I've had some
jobs I seriously screwed up on, but I'm far from the soup kitchen today. Even
if someone notices, there are laws regarding disclosure, and you will get
interviews. In today's world of high profile ethical failures, your response
to why you were terminated will make you stand out.

People around the world are dying for their beliefs. Don't stand for having
imaginary potential consequences dangled in front of you like a carrot prevent
you from doing the proper thing.

------
evbots
Whatever you decide to do, you really should report the violation of the law
in some way to one of your superiors, and do it in a documented, traceable
fashion (email).

~~~
skylan_q
Pretty much this. And if they don't follow through/follow up on this, the
problem will get much bigger.

~~~
s_q_b
Thanks guys :) There are verbatim notes that I've filed with my legal counsel,
but I am concerned escalating will result in immediate termination.

~~~
rfrey
You have legal counsel and you're still posting to HN for advice? Have you
lost faith in them? Do they know you're posting details of your case on the
internet? Are they ok with that?

~~~
s_q_b
I have not lost faith, and nothing I've said is legally problematic. Truly, I
value the advice given here, and having weighed the risks carefully, I made a
considered decision. It could be totally wrong, but for now, what's done is
done. Thank you for reading this, and your advice is very well taken.

------
socialist_coder
> He assigned me to follow the instructions of an "expert" in completing a
> compliance document (a task in which I am not trained), and the "expert"
> turned out to be producing documents that are not in compliance with Federal
> law. The "expert" repeatedly stated in writing that I was doing an
> "excellent" job, and I am concerned I am facing retaliation for reporting
> that her work was simply not correct.

If that is true, why not escalate this up the chain? Unless there is some big
conspiracy / cover up going on, I'm sure upper management would be interested
in the truth.

~~~
xtrumanx
> I'm sure upper management would be interested in the truth.

I'm not the OP and I'm sure upper management everywhere are interested in the
truth but I'm interested in maintaining the relationship with my direct
superiors more.

If my direct superiors aren't handling an issue I will never go over their
head as it'll probably sour our relationship and nothing will probably get
done anyways.

~~~
jodah
Agree with others - any relationship with your immediate superiors is already
toast. Anyone who would retaliate against you for doing good work can never be
trusted to treat you fairly again.

Considering that you want to stay at the company there are really only two
ways this could turn out good for you: You bring this up the chain,
effectively reporting your supervisor's bad behavior, and wind up reassigned
under someone else, or you bring this up the chain and your supervisor gets
fired. The latter is the only scenario that really gives you a good shot of
remaining at the company without being hassled, and it sounds like your
supervisor's behavior was bad enough to warrant their dismissal.

Some people do horrible things and their companies protect them. Maybe they're
politically connected, well-liked, or valuable for other reasons. The way I
look at this overall is that the company is either good enough to stop this
sort of retaliatory behavior or they're not, in which case you shouldn't want
to work for them anyways.

Good luck.

------
supertruth
Okay it seems like you want to keep this job so that's step one. The goal here
is to keep the job. Now just arrange the chess pieces to accomplish your goal.
Here are two things I would keep in mind:

1\. Do exceptionally good work for the next 30 days. Bust Your Ass. Most
likely this is his way of reasserting his superior status over you since you
went out of line. You need to show him that he's the master and you're the
subordinate. The best way to do that is to bust your ass and do the work the
way he's dictated that he wants the work done. Don't do this passive-
aggressively or in a desperate way, do this with determination, with purpose,
authentically. Like you were born and live to serve him. Once you've pleased
his ego, he'll have a harder time rationalizing firing you.

2\. DO NOT COMPLAIN TO HR/LEGAL. Only say good things about your boss and
how's he's so intelligent and you really respect his leadership and blah blah.
Swallow your pride and openly acknowledge his criticisms of you and say this
whole process is helping you grow as a person and be better. Repeat: DO NOT
COMPLAIN TO HR/LEGAL NO EXCEPTIONS IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU THINK THEY ARE
YOUR FRIEND. If you have negative things to say about him/the company, they
will begin their campaign to disarm you and support the decision to let you
go.

On a meta-note. I think you should actually leave the company and find a
company/manager with a supportive culture. By staying at this company you are
stunting yourself. You seem too dependent and fearful and that is a recipe for
life-long stress and anxiety, both of which will ultimately kill you. Improve
your independence and self-reliance, find another job.

I've hired and fired many people and I can tell you that getting fired is not
that bad. Companies know there are bad companies and that personalities don't
always mix. What matters most to a potential future employer is not if you've
been fired but if you can actually do good work and you fit in. If you do good
work and there are companies where you can fit in, you don't need to fear
being fired from anywhere. You'll find your place.

~~~
mhurron
> 2\. DO NOT COMPLAIN TO HR/LEGAL. Only say good things about your boss and
> how's he's so intelligent and you really respect his leadership and blah
> blah. Swallow your pride and openly acknowledge his criticisms of you and
> say this whole process is helping you grow as a person and be better.
> Repeat: DO NOT COMPLAIN TO HR/LEGAL NO EXCEPTIONS IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU
> THINK THEY ARE YOUR FRIEND. If you have negative things to say about him/the
> company, they will begin their campaign to disarm you and support the
> decision to let you go.

This is idiotic. Yes, HR is there to protect the company. However this advice
relies on you stating that you believe your manager is correct and stating
there is nothing wrong with the way your manager is acting or between you and
them.

Given that, and your manager now recommends firing, since you have openly
admitted your boss was correct in everything he is firing you for and made it
clear there are no personal issues between you and your boss, HR is going to
completely support the decision to fire you. You have shot yourself in the
foot.

Nothing changes if you don't raise issues. HR is protecting the company, but
that would also include not holding onto a manager with a lot of complaints
against them.

~~~
supertruth
Thanks for calling my ideas idiotic. It probably seems that way because you're
missing the subtext of this advice.

At worst HR/Legal will recommend that you get fired, at best you aren't on
their radar. There is a very low chance that HR will go against your manager
and fight for you. They just aren't incentivized that way: their job is to
protect the company, not ensure fairness. HR people are awarded for cleaning
up messes, not for interfering with the management structure. They risk more
downside to support a single employee. In general HR departments are in a
position of weakness when compared to management in companies.

His priority is to stay at the company, not make a change. The best way to
maximize his chances of staying at the company is to not make a ruckus and do
what his manager says. If he wanted to maximize his chances of making a
change, however, the best way would be to go to his manager's manager. His
manager's manager is actually incentivized to ensure his reports are doing
good/non-illegal work. His chances of getting firing go up by taking that
route, but in the slim chance his manager's manager has detected these sorts
of problems in the past and is currently waiting for the straw that broke the
camel's back then he might be successful.

I'm not advocating not making a change in the company, I'm just being logical
w.r.t. to keeping his job right now. The spirit of my advice is "die another
day." Right now he has very little influence to actually make change. Better
to advance those goals once he's in a more stable position in the company. For
him, the stakes are too high to risk martyrdom.

------
davemel37
>"I am facing retaliation for reporting that her work was simply not correct."

>"this supervisor has been angry with me since I pointed out to him a few
months ago that he may have violated firm policy in a severe way."

Is there a pattern here of noticing others mistakes and pointing it out them?
Whether right or not, I know very few people who would want to work with
someone constantly looking for their mistakes and jumping on the opportunity
to point it out to them.

One thing is for sure, you are too much of a straight shooter to work in the
"major firm" or atleast with the department you work for...clearly, they are
less concerned with following every rule to the letter.

My advice, especially if you don't plan on changing, is to leave, and be open
with interviewers about being a straight shooter...this will scare off the
companies that you will certainly run into problems with, and hopefully help
you find work with others who share your values.

------
late2part
You're a data scientist - one of the hottest jobs out there. Go find a place
where you don't work for an asshole, and you can have fun. Email me if you're
having a hard time finding a job, I'll probably hire you.

------
davismwfl
1\. Don't quit before/unless you have another position, let them fire you.

2\. Getting fired will not blackball you, companies do not validate anything
generally beyond dates of employment, salary and sometimes "eligible for
rehire", but that has become more uncommon to ask/answer. I have seen at large
firms even when a person is terminated for valid reasons, and the manager and
executives have said they will never work here again, HR will answer the
question "Yes" to eligible for rehire. This is because they know answering it
any other way can lead to a potential law suit which may unearth unrelated
facts during discovery that would be damaging.

3\. If you get fired and are on an interview, don't lie about being terminated
if asked, and don't plea your case to them, they don't care and will not look
fond on you pleading a case or dishing details on a former employer. If
directly asked if you were terminated, just say yes I was let go. Generally
most people won't push for why, but if they do, you could say something along
the lines, well over the past few months (or whatever time period) my manager
needed a different skill set on the team then I posses and so I wasn't a good
fit any longer. Frankly, his/her skill set you were lacking is dishonesty or
questionable morals however you want to look at it. So you aren't lying, just
framing the conversation so it isn't negative to the company or really
yourself.

4\. Even in small towns you can find another job, larger towns is even easier,
don't panic. It is scary but don't panic.

5\. As for the situation, you can send an email to your manager or the the
director in charge of your department again. Do it not with the goal of saving
your job or making enemies, but with protecting your ass so that if something
shady really is found later you are insulated. Make sure you keep a copy of
the email and while likely not ideal, I would bcc my personal email as well as
print a hard copy.

~~~
pekk
It's simply false that companies do not validate anything beyond dates of
employment. Supposedly all companies are so terrified of lawsuits they won't
do anything, but actually there is no mechanism which will allow the candidate
to discover what was mentioned on the back channel, and the good old boy
network is very much alive. If someone wants to make sure you don't get hired,
there are ways.

When it comes to your own life, please don't trust this Pollyanna advice from
HN which is coming from people who have not had any problems like this.

~~~
HillRat
"Back channels" are exceptionally rare between HR departments -- I've only
heard of one significant network of HR departments willing to back-channel
pejorative data about possible employees, and that was a set of industrial
companies that had an ongoing problem with employees getting fired for failed
drug screens, then cleaning up just long enough to go to the next firm. (Meth
heads playing with 2000°F furnaces is a legal and operational nightmare
scenario.)

Even so, it took years for the companies to start sharing _anything_ , and
even then the HR heads would do things like meet in the parking lots of rural
truck stops to exchange names of problem employees. Basically, sharing
pejorative employee info between companies is something that no competent HR
professional is willing to do absent very good reason, executive direction,
and a lot of attempts at tradecraft.

Having said that, ref checks _can_ communicate quite a lot without
communicating anything in particular; pregnant pauses and careful word choice
can certainly say a lot. However, this is more a concern in SMBs where the ref
check might land on the manager's desk instead of HR.

Now, if a company _leader_ wants to screw you over and you're looking for
employment in the SMB market, then, yeah, change cities. YPO is a freaking
henhouse for gossip, and bad reputations move fast in those circles.

------
steven2012
I've been in this same situation as you.

You can and will not win against your boss.

You can either try to transfer into another group outside of the reach of your
current boss, or you need to leave. But the fact you are on performance review
means that transferring might be very hard, unless you've made good
relationships with other groups that would take you on.

Those are your only two options so act quickly. There is no way so salvage the
situation. 30-day performance reviews are really just a way to fire you but to
avoid a lawsuit.

I find it hard to believe you will be blackballed in the entire city unless
you work in a very small city. But you have no choice. And next job you get,
you should consider the things you say and who you are saying them to. Some
people take criticism well, and others like your boss will try to fire you.
Learn from this experience.

~~~
jqm
"You can and will not win against your boss."

That is certainly not necessarily true. But it is a probably.

------
heldtogether
It sounds very much like you're a whistleblower of some crime, which gives you
protection against the sort of retaliation you're describing. See
[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower)
for more information about legal protection.

Now, you're not immune to workforce politics so there may still be reasons why
you'd be fired but I definitely wouldn't accept it without finding out a lot
more about your situation and potentially escalating the complaint.

~~~
s_q_b
According to my counsel, whistleblower protection laws wouldn't necessarily
apply in this case (IANAL, so I'm unsure as to why.)

Also, this industry does not treat whistleblowers well, so I'm hesitant to
take this route, yet. But I want to make sure I follow firm policy very
precisely regarding these issues, so I'm consulting closely with legal
counsel.

------
dmethvin
My thought is that you should speak to a lawyer who is experienced in these
kind of disputes. Bringing in a lawyer to represent you pretty much burns the
bridge but it sounds like you will either want or have to leave anyway. If
this is a large company, they do not want to get involved in a protracted
dispute, especially if it might become public. This is true regardless of what
you have done that might legitimately make them want to get rid of you. Yes,
you don't want to ruin your own reputation as an employee for a future
employer, but they have much more to lose in most cases.

You would be surprised how far companies will go to avoid outright terminating
someone. In past jobs I have been in management and had to deal with people
who had anger management problems, drug problems, and sexually harassed co-
workers. Despite the documentation for these issues they were given up to 6
months to find other jobs and/or terminated with several months of severance
for signing an agreement they wouldn't sue.

A lawyer will generally give you a free consultation and could write a letter
on your behalf for a few hundred dollars. If your case seems to have more
merit, they may be willing to take it on contingency.

~~~
walshemj
And also turning up with lawyer will increase the chance of getting a
compromise agreement and will get your managers card marked by more senior
people.

------
junto
In summarising many of the excellent advice here you should:

Maintain your professionalism

Seek independent legal advice

Avoid HR like the plague

Assume that you will be fired. You cannot win.

Start looking for a new job immediately.

Document everything for any legal proceedings later.

Ask colleagues you trust if they would provide you with a reference once you
have secured new employment.

Do not fear leaving your job for another. Opportunity knocks.

Good luck and remain positive. Don't let this get you down.

~~~
late2part
If this is * fait accompli* and it is going to happen, then by all means, I
would involve HR, under the advice of your counsel.

I would tell HR that you're being punitively punished for bringing up an
ethics violation with your boss.

I would tell them that your counsel has advised you that you have certain
rights, and you expect to be treated fairly.

I surmise that will force them to offer you more to get you to leave quietly,
or maybe force them to investigate the asinine behavior of your boss, assuming
we perceive the situation correctly.

Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night!!!!

------
lightlyused
"When I raised that issue, he immediately began the process of putting me on a
30 day review, a necessary step prior to termination."

Document document document. Don't quit your job and when and if they do fire
you. Sue. It sounds to me like your manger is retaliating against you because
they are trying to cover something up. That is never ok and if HR is not
handling it, than stand your ground and let the lawyers handle it.

------
alexryan
Whatever you do, do not allow yourself to feel like a helpless victim. That's
what losers do. You are not a loser. But if you allow yourself to think like a
loser you are finished. Not just in this job, but in life.

Decide what you really want first. Do you really genuinely want to stay?
Sounds like the place is a little corrupt. I wouldn't want to stay there. But
if you do, then own that choice and don't let anyone else tell you to run
away.

There are an infinite number of ways in which you can manifest the future that
you desire.

In workplaces that have been infested by people who care more about getting
for themselves than giving something amazing to the world, you're going to
have to play the political game.

I avoid those kinds of workplaces because I find doing so repulsive, but if
you really want to stay, that's what you're going to have to do.

That means forming alliances and destroying your enemies. This guy who has
taken action against you is doing so because he feels threatened by you. You
could try to repair your relationship with him. Or you could take action to
destroy him. Decide which you want to do.

It sounds like you are in the right. Know that a man who has right on his
side, and who is absolutely confident and determined to do what is right no
matter the cost is absolutely terrifying to the typically cowardly types who
climb the corporate hierarchies at most companies.

Most will bend under the slightest threat you intend to stand up for yourself
and take action against them.

You wield a lot more power than you think you do. Just believe in yourself and
do what is right because it is right and people will rally to support you.

------
codegeek
Let me say this very clearly. If your manager has decided to get rid of you,
you cannot fight that battle. Do not fight that battle. You will lose. Doesn't
matter who is right or wrong. I have seen this so many times in my 11 years of
professional experience that I will say this with conviction.

Now, if you are really sure that your manager is preparing to fire you, then :

"Do I simply begin looking for other positions"

Yes, right away. Keep it only to yourself.

"Do I report his increasingly erratic behavior, and waste of firm resources?"

Don't. At least not yet. It will be a waste of your time and until you are in
a strong position (have already found another job etc), you will most likely
weaken your position further. Remember, the company will have more interest in
keeping the manager and not you. This is not the time to be a whistleblower
etc and think about doing the right thing etc. The right thing to do is to
look out for yourself by finding another job asap. All the other things can
come later if you want.

"Do I quit before the period expires?"

Find a job if you can within the period and quit then. Do not quit on your own
before finding another job.

Here is my overall take on this. You need to put yourself in a strong position
before doing anything. This means that you have another job lined up. Don't
worry about being blacklisted because if you do need a reference, you can
always use other colleagues and not necessarily your manager. Remember the
saying "most people quit their bosses not the company". And if you can find
the new job before getting fired/quitting, then you anyway don't have to use
current boss/company as reference because no one does that. You also will not
have to explain the details of why you are really quitting.

Even though you cannot say with certainty, but whenever a manager puts someone
on a "30 day review", it is most likely because they want to get rid of you.
Officially, they have to do a bunch of bullshit documentation for HR and legal
purposes but your hunch is almost always right.

Get out of there if you feel like you are no longer wanted. Do not confront
your boss or say anything verbally or in writing. Keep it simple. Find a job,
give notice to your current employer/boss in writing which should just say "I
am quitting effective xyz date". Be prepared to be fired right away on the
spot after your notice if they were anyway going to get rid of you. SO before
sending the notice, make sure you have your desk ready to go just in case. I
have seen this many times when someone is walked out of their office right
away after giving notice when they were anyway going to be fired.

~~~
saboot
> if you do need a reference, you can always use other colleagues and not
> necessarily your manager.

Is it okay to do this while still being employed at a company? Would you
consult the colleague and ask him to not reveal you are looking for a new job?

This isn't for OP, but my own knowledge.

~~~
codegeek
you are right. I edited my comment further on this. No one uses/should use
their current colleagues/company/boss for reference anyway.

~~~
Jailbird
Really? In my experience, across (software/tech) in multiple industries -
people (work friends, and work friends who you keep as real friends) help each
other out if they're leaving (again, assuming we think well of each other and
the references are honest) We don't assume interviewing equal disloyalty. A
fair bit of caution is required, of course - but I see this happen all the
time. Heck, I've had executives who will help you if want to leave (again -
it's not disloyal), and I've carried that same approach to those who reported
to me.

------
throwaway426
> Do I quit before the period expires?

If you're fairly certain you'll be fired (and it sounds like you are) wouldn't
this be the most sensible solution?

When asked in interviews why you left saying you quit usually goes over a lot
better than saying you were fired. And explaining why you quit would certainly
not be considered a poor reason - at least not for the companies you would
_want_ to work for.

~~~
notahacker
A short, honest answer would be best. "I raised concerns that they might be
asking me to handle data/documents in a way that wasn't compliant with Federal
law. Unfortunately I'm not able to elaborate on the details, but the result
was that I felt moving on would be best"

Companies really _shouldn 't_ pry any further when there's good reason to
believe you're legally obliged to shut up. Plus refraining from the
opportunity to rant about their dubious practises and coverups also implies
that you're a sensible professional with high standards rather than a
troublemaker.

The possibility that your most-likely-soon-to-be-ex-employer might feel
compelled to offer you some kind of settlement in return for you agreeing not
to mention alleged non-compliance or unfair dismissal to anybody else actually
probably still exists. But you ask your counsel (or two or three different
lawyers) about that, not HN.

~~~
FireBeyond
This is a good answer if directly asked. It doesn't imply guilt on either
party, and as you said, this really isn't something that should be discussed
further.

------
guyzero
Why would you be blackballed? I've been fired twice and it never really did
anything for my job prospects. It sucked but it wasn't terminal. There's a
strong demand for data scientists. And most organizations won't discuss why
you left for fear of being sued - because if they do slander you to other
companies, a lawsuit is a real possibility.

So maybe you're right. If you think it's a real possibility than quit,
certainly. And it's not an either/or option - you can escalate the issue to
senior management and quit at the same time.

Anyway, overall it sucks but you will survive. Good luck.

------
someoneElse123
Let's assume that you somehow don't get fired at the end of the review period.
Do you still want to work for this person/company?

get out while you can.

------
cryodesign
I'd get advice from an employment lawyer right away, sounds quite dicey your
situation, I'm sure your manager had to fill out a bunch of forms and give
specific reasons to put you on a 30 day review. Can you find out what those
reasons were? Questioning the work of an 'expert' (was that person a
contractor?) surely can't be an official reason to put you on review.

Also get your previous performance reports, that will hopefully show that
whatever reasons he put down for placing you under 30 day review are out of
character and unusual.

Edit: typos

~~~
mdesq
This is absolutely essential advice. Consult with a good employment lawyer as
soon as possible. They will know the legal issues at play and can counsel you
on what steps to take / not take. Unfortunately, it sounds like you may be in
a situation where a single misstep could be used against you. You need an
understanding of what your rights are, and what your protections may be under
the law. A good employment lawyer will be able to help with that.

In the meantime, I would begin a journal and start taking notes (with
dates/times) on what you have been told, observations you have made, etc. This
may be helpful both to the lawyer as well as anyone else when you are asked to
recall things. This way, it's contemporaneous note-taking as your reference,
and not some attempted recollection from some time considered long past.

------
stillsut
I'd offer the example of the intern dataminer at the Potti lab which was found
to have committed a particularly egregious form of model fitting and led to
its erroneous use in actual cancer patient treatment: by splitting obs from
the total study into fit and test sets to give perfect agreement with the
already trained model. Here the impact on ethical issues - life or death
medicine - was pretty high. The guy who quit personally sacrificed his
medical-school career to draw his foot in the sand, and received empty thanks
only years later from Duke [1].

In data science, ethical issues seem to be present in all the interesting
applications. But the life or death impact is often much less, like Netflix
movie ratings - where a public datamining competition was cancelled due to a
compliance-based class action lawsuit for the potential to de-identify
anonymized account data [2].

It's hard to where on this ethical spectrum your particular case lies. If it's
something that effects others, quit and try to make things right. If it
effects lawyers v lawyers let your boss take accountability for that decision
and the freedom to make it.

[1]
[http://www.cancerletter.com/articles/20150109_1](http://www.cancerletter.com/articles/20150109_1)
[2] [http://www.forbes.com/sites/firewall/2010/03/12/netflix-
sett...](http://www.forbes.com/sites/firewall/2010/03/12/netflix-settles-
privacy-suit-cancels-netflix-prize-two-sequel/)

------
cryptoglyph
The most important task you need to accomplish in the next week is this:
Consult with criminal defense counsel with experience in this area of federal
compliance—particularly because of the possibility that the documents you were
helping to create were contrary to law. 18 USC § 1001 is a frightening statute
with exceptionally broad applicability. Even if it wasn't you signing the
form, if you were helping to complete the form, an Assistant US Attorney might
see you as a target for a conspiracy charge. Although conspiracy requires
proof of intent, that doesn't mean your life can't be wrecked by a wayward or
overly zealous AUSA, even if you are exonerated later.

You may need, under whatever area of law applies here, to whistleblow to
remove any potential taint on your activity. Or maybe counsel would advise you
to lay low. Hard to say. That's why it's important to talk to counsel in this
area of law.

Secondly, you may have cause of action for a whistleblower lawsuit. You may
end up deciding not to proceed for several reasons already mentioned in other
comments (expensive, time consuming, etc.), but you should seek competent
legal advice from an employment attorney as well.

------
codezero
Find a new role as fast as possible and get out of this situation without
burning too many bridges on the way. Your quality of life will improve greatly
when you are far away from a supervisor who's actively diminishing you and
your work.

------
pswenson
Tough situation.

If you want to stand up for yourself you could go over your boss's head.
Risky, could get you fired immediately, but could get your boss
fired/disciplined and save your position.

You could consult with a lawyer for advice...

The safest thing to do is go with the flow and quit (finding a new job first
if possible). But just because something is safe doesn't mean it's the right
way to go...

------
grecy
> _but I am most concerned that being fired would place future job prospects
> in jeopardy_

In sounds like your colleagues know you're doing a great job and are an asset
- use them as references on your resume for any future jobs, and there is no
need to mention you were fired - you can just say you're ready for new
challenges.

------
jfoutz
Most companies provide nothing beyond verifying employment dates - start and
end. Providing more opens them up to lawsuits. I didn't get hired at
$NEW_PLACE because $OLD_PLACE told them i watched cat videos all day.

You're working for an organization that's broken. Perhaps someone can fix
their legal and ethical problems, but fixing that is not data science. There's
nothing wrong with letting people higher up know, so they can perhaps resolve
the issues. But remember, it takes a long time to turn a big ship. if there's
already a culture of willfully avoiding ethics and the law, thats a long long
process. Do you want to spend your valuable time fighting that fight, or doing
good work?

I'd start looking for a new place right now.

------
kfk
Most big firms have a concern line/department you can report to in case of
ethics or internal policy compliance issues, check, but maybe they won't even
reveal your identity. If there is no such a line, I would start looking for
another job if the felony is not a serious one, otherwise I would ask advice
to a lawer. You seem to be somewhat junior? It seems to me you don't have
enough experience to navigate the political landscape of your firm and a wrong
move there might really hurt your carrier, so probably changing job is the
best long term strategy here.

------
elxavit0
It does sound like a 30 day notice. I'd start looking elsewhere right away. To
that end, there's a job fair being put on by EdSurge in Redwood City where a
bunch of EdTech companies will be sending reps. There are 12 spots currently
left for job seekers. Pretty sure your skills as a Data Scientist are valuable
to many EdTech companies.

Here's the link to sign up for the job fair:
[http://www.meetup.com/sfedtech/events/221583848/](http://www.meetup.com/sfedtech/events/221583848/)

------
dboreham
Little late to this party, but a couple things to add:

1a. The fact that the manager showed up with the "30 day performance review"
speech means that for sure they want to fire you, and also that he has already
has this signed off by HR. Therefore going to HR, at least about the specific
issue of being fired, is not useful.

1b. There is some very small chance that 1a is not true and in fact the
manager is a total loose canon, or is bluffing. Up to you to assess which is
the case but 1a is much more likely.

2\. A trick I've used myself in the many situations I've found myself in over
the years is this: imagine they make a movie about what goes down. Imagine you
being played by some big name actor in the movie (the movie "Margin Call"
might be a good concrete example here). Now: play time forward and consider
what the guy playing your character in the movie would say when he testifies
in court. Here's the important part: make sure that your actions today are
consistent with that guy looking good and ending the movie not in jail :)

Put another way: think about how you would fare if you have to stand up in
court at some later date and explain your actions. Think about the emails you
send, the letters you write particularly.

In your case, "looking good in the movie" might involve taking the advice
other folks have given here: seek legal advice and then follow it.

------
RomanPushkin
Start looking for other positions asap. Don't rely on things beyond your
control.

------
operat0r
Going to run counter to the stream here - don't quit and don't give up on the
company.

Every firm has crappy managers and your references to "compliance" tell me
there's a fear of lawsuits. This sounds like you are being thrown under the
bus by an ineffective and frightened (those two usually go together) manager.
There may be a sense (which may or may not be coming from that manager) that
it's cheaper to fix the problem by fixing the blame.

1\. Do not check out. You don't have to quit. The PIP is a process. Lots of
people come through PIPs, don't believe it's a one-way route out of the
company. It's not. It is a flag that you and your manager are not on the same
page about expectations and is more like a DUI or a divorce - one is
unfortunate but happens to more people than you think. You find the problem,
make changes and continue. More than one..that's a different problem.

2\. Understand and use the PIP process. If the manager is doing all of the
documenting and you are not, that's what we call a no-contest. You don't want
to fight or offer opinions - focus on facts, emails, ccs, phone calls, meeting
notes. Document this as your side of the PIP process. This will probably not
get your manager to back down, but 1) establishes your position for anything
else that's about to happen and 2) gives some back and forth to the process,
which slows it down long enough for you to get to #3.

3) Are there options for a transfer? This is a discussion that you can have
with HR (yes, they are there to keep the company from being sued and not for
your well being, BUT remember they are also not there for your manager's well-
being either; they are partly there to try and retain people who are good
contributors because it costs more money to get a new employee than it costs
to keep a good one). The key is how you are perceived by people other than
your manager - especially your manager's peers. They are the ones who can find
a new home for you inside the company if they think you are worth the
investment. It's best if they thought that before this happened, but it's
still not too late - you just need to know the room.

Anyway, best of luck and I hope you're hearing the majority of comments here
that says this is not the end of your life or your career. It happens
sometimes, and people move on if you are professional and can look at this
more as training than misfortune.

------
yason
Before proceeding with the steps to ensure your personal future, spend some
time thinking why it's you who's involved in this? Why are you put in such a
situation, possibly in the role of a whistleblower? Is there something greater
that is screaming to be done regardless of how you will personally survive?
Don't literally think but take some time to listen to something inside of you.
Maybe there's a call for you.

If you're sure there isn't, the next step is to go practical.

Stop thinking you will not get a future if you get fired. The future is not
set. There's very little, if anything, a manager or even a company can do to
prevent you from getting another job in the same city. Getting fired because
of not agreeing to unlawful practices trumps bad-mouthing any day.

Make a local copy of the evidence and store it safe. If someone wants to play
hardball you don't want your position to rely on your word or anyone else's.
I'm not a US citizen but if there's something done not according to the
Federal law I could imagine some Federal authority might be very interested in
it.

Start looking for a position elsewhere. Consider your job done: don't look
back. You can do that later when you're safe in another job but now is not the
time. You can take a "lesser job" because you can explain it away as being
fired because of not tolerating unlawful practices. At least you have your
feet on solid ground again.

Then escalate the matter to your manager's boss or his boss. There should be
someone in the company (or someone who's invested in the company) who's
interested in unlawful compliance documents. If there isn't, run fast and
don't look back.

If the compliance matter reaches parties outside the company and nobody in the
company wants to do anything about it, go talk to the police if non-compliance
could cause harm to other people. If the matter is company internal, leave it
there: the company will eventually sink with all their baggage if they
tolerate such practices.

Once you've made a plan to survival, cherish the opportunity. What would you
have wanted to do if only things hadn't been so good as for your employer
earlier in time? What could you try now that you're off the hook anyway and
have no reason to hold back to something? What are the things are have been
impossible but could now be chosen?

~~~
wwweston
> Make a local copy of the evidence and store it safe. If someone wants to
> play hardball you don't want your position to rely on your word or anyone
> else's.

Quoting for truth.

What companies with formalized processes like "30 day review period" are doing
with their time is trying to produce a paper trail, usually to defend a
decision that's already been made on some level.

You want to be doing the same thing (and, if possible, finding out what kind
of trail they're possibly producing)... not necessarily to defend your
continued current employment (though that's an option if you want to and
you've got good enough evidence), but in case this issue ever comes up in the
future.

------
mpdehaan2
I would definitely mention this in a short email to your bosses direct
supervisor, or if you don't trust him, as far up the chain as you would like
to go, if this involves violating law, you obviously need to not violate that.

However, the chances that they will side with you are low, so remain very
civil, and be ok if that happens. There is a chance they won't terminate your
boss - and will try to get you to "patch things over", which probably won't
work. Still, you're nicely on the record for having reported it. If they don't
respect you for nicely reporting it, it sounds like you don't want to be there
anyway.

While it may be unwise to say "don't get a lawyer", I don't think you want to
win that fight, as then they really will not want to have you aboard.

I'd also consider the matter of the compliance document - if this is just
something like import/export compliance, it's really not that hard, and your
boss _may_ have been reacting to the tone in which it was brought up, rather
than what you brought up. Sounds like it's a bit more than that though.

Companies are very likely to lay people off these days, especially so they can
get them to sign agreements that limit their ability to converse on topics
(i.e. severance or at least mutual non-dispargement agreements, waiving
ability to sue, etc). They are unlikely to actually fire you, and if they do,
I'd just be very up front about what happened when talking to companies you
are interviewing with. They are likely to understand.

It's all in your emotions and how you talk about it. Having good positive
references at that company is of course a good thing to have as well.

Do be looking for a job now though.

------
ashleyp
DO NOT give into this person because of fear!!! The moment you do that, he has
you.

Out of curiosity, why stay in a place where they clearly feel they can just
fire people at a moments notice like you're some statistic?

Could you hand in your job notice and quit before going through being fired?
Do that and report the guy at the same time? If he's done this to you, who
else can he do this too?

------
spiritplumber
If you are not passionate about your current projects: Find the big boss of
your company, and explain the situation, then note that you're trying to avoid
starting a whistleblower lawsuit by going directly to the person in charge. If
that fails, keep doing your job well until day zero, but document everything
illegal on a SD card or similar, and then take it to the law the moment they
kick you out. It may be useful to talk to the appropriate regulatory agency
NOW.

If you are passionate about your current projects, I have no real advice to
offer... What I would do is probably something odd, like explaining to people
that me being fired will not prevent me from finishing said projects and that
anyone who has a problem with it is likely to be ignored or physically kept
out of my way with whatever means I may deem necessary. However, I cannot in
conscience recommend that anyone do this, it's probably one of those things
that only work with me.

------
bedhead
I think it depends on a few things, but perhaps two of the most important are
these.

Be 100% honest with yourself about the situation. Has your performance been
_demonstrably_ good? A consistent record of good reviews, raises, bonuses,
promotions, etc? Importantly, is it documented?? Were there maybe some
performance issues in the past that would cause a manager to try to find an
excuse to fire you? Or truly, is this just a petty reaction from a loathsome
supervisor?

What about the senior managers above your immediate manager? Are they cut from
the same cloth or are they more reasonable? Will they hear you out on this
issue or just say "not my problem" and defer to your manager?

If your honest-to-god performance was demonstrably good, and you think the
senior managers can handle this better, I would recommend going above your
manager's head. That relationship sounds irreconcilable anyway, so I don't
think there is any additional damage done.

Good luck.

------
chdir
Unfortunately in such situations there's little you can do legally unless you
have a good trail. Regarding reporting up, do read some of the advice here as
to whose side HR would take :
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8600716](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8600716)

Since the damage has already been done (putting you on a performance review),
the rest is just a matter of time. By damage, I don't mean any damage to your
reputation outside the company though. It's better to start job hunting while
you weigh your options about a legal case or talking to higher-ups. In most of
the cases I've seen, it's easier & cheaper to just walk away. However, if you
are very confident that someone higher-up would be genuinely interested in
knowing the truth, then you should get in touch with them. Whatever you
decide, start searching for jobs.

------
lordnacho
Lots of good advice in here. My 2 cents:

1) Don't worry about the future. Unless your city is really, really small,
there will be other work for data science people.

2) Don't worry about your record or questions about why you were let go. You
can always plead politics. It's a big firm, and people know there's politics
in there.

3) Don't focus on the boss. Your new boss doesn't want to hear that you're
uncooperative. Just stick to the politics line (boss couldn't get the budget
for our group, blah blah).

4) Why on earth would you be blackballed? People do not generally use their
networks like this, save for the closest friends. Have you ever looked at
LinkedIn? Every post is happy happy. Or anti corporate politics.

5) Definitely start looking for a new job. It won't be strange why you've
suddenly got a lot of half days or sickies.

6) Get a lawyer. The angle with the boss violating policy could help you. Also
lawyers are generally useful in confrontations.

------
6t6t6
Please, fight back.

Companies are f __* up because good people just run away when there are
problems, while this kind of managers get promoted.

Keep a record of everything, bring a recorder with you _, if they claim you
did something wrong and you thing it 's not true, say that what they say is
not true. If they say they are not happy with your job, ask what you have to
do to improve.

Contact a Lawyer. And ask the Union. They probably know quite well what are
your options. With the history you explained, you should be able to beat them
in court, but you need to be able to prove it.

If one day things get ugly, you'd better have a lot of ammunition to fight
back. And remember, it's your job. They don't have the right to fire you to
cover their mistakes.

_ If in your country it is not legal to keep a hidden recorder, at least you
can put it on the table if one day they call you to communicate that you are
fired.

------
NicoJuicy
Can you go over their heads? If you have any problems, there is almost always
someone to raise issues to. If you love your jobs, your collegue appreciate
you ( 3rd party references inside the company you can mention) and your
previous peer reviews have always been positive, any boss can see there is
something wrong...

I'd go over their heads, be bald. If it doesn't work, you have lost NOTHING...
Don't threat the company, because then they will take it personal. Specify
what is the problem and that you love working there.

Mention the raised issue about the legal problems to your boss. Say that you
mentioned it as a good employee and only had negative or no feedback about it.

Other companies know that there can go something wrong, because there is
always a "people" aspect in a company.. Don't worry about that.

------
freedevbootcamp
Break out the resume and polish it up. Use all 8 hours a day to find a job
while at work. Connect to recruiters on LinkedIn and use every job search
engine to get yourself out there. Resign on the 29th day. You will be
penalized for 2 weeks of unemployment but it will be worth it. Good Luck.

------
brudgers
A lot of compliance is just going through the motions and then doing whatever
it is you want. If it's any consolation, that's something I wrestle with
regularly in my professional life.

Ultimately, only a court can determine what is or isn't in compliance with
Federal Law. Everyone else just has a non-binding opinion. That's the nature
of our adversarial system, and different from what is and isn't against one's
ethics.

Any company big enough to have a 30 day review process is big enough that HR
doesn't really want a mess on their hands and neither do the people
responsible for other aspects of compliance. Talk to HR. Ask them to transfer
you. Polish your CV. Look for other work. Don't quit because you will give up
unemployment benefits.

Good luck.

------
vonnik
Firms care a lot about their reputation, and good data scientists are hard to
hire when you have a bad reputation. You should try to work out a deal with
the firm where they support you in your job search with recommendations while
keeping you employed for a couple months.

------
jedanbik
Well, if you are in North Carolina, you should email me, as we are hiring data
scientists. :)

~~~
LyndsySimon
Ditto here, Virginia.

------
mvkel
What makes you think you'll be blackballed from most firms in the city? So you
don't get to use them as a reference. Who cares? The company isn't allowed to
disclose why they fired you. You can just say "it wasn't a good fit for me" in
your next interview. If they do pry and you acknowledge you were let go,
explain the reasoning (and remain objective without placing blame), and they
might see your side, too, or understand that you'll be a good employee.

I think you're way over-thinking this. Being terminated from a job doesn't
ruin your prospects for any future position.

------
drchiu
If your firm did indeed commit a unlawful offence, you should call them out on
it.

Your career at this firm is over either way.

Last thing you want to do is to be dragged back in when their offence is
revealed and they use you as a scapegoat.

Be on the offensive.

------
hobarrera
> I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired
> would place future job prospects in jeopardy.

We all fear that, but usually, being fired is never an issue with getting a
new job.

> According to my colleagues, I'm very competent at my position, but this
> supervisor has been angry with me since I pointed out to him a few months
> ago that he may have violated firm policy in a severe way.

If he did severely violate firm policy, point it out to whomsoever is on top
of her. They should be grateful for the violation report, and that should help
keep your job.

------
learnstats2
Is whistleblowing a serious option? Given your evidence that your boss is
producing illegal documents, you should consider taking this higher up - _if_
they will care. Of course, it's possible that the boss is covering for company
policy.

The boss currently thinks that firing you is the most effective way to make
the problem disappear. For the reasons you set out, you should act to change
that.

My suggestion is to make it clear (strongly imply, without directly stating)
that you will whistle-blow if you remain on probation or are otherwise
mistreated.

~~~
woah
Sounds like pretty bad advice to blackmail the manager. Find a new job, then
blow the whistle if it is what needs to be done. Don't try to blackmail the
manager to keep the job, because if you succeed you will be an accessory to
whatever the crime is.

~~~
learnstats2
If it was up to me, I would have whistleblown already. I said that first.

I guess the manager understands that the OP will not whistleblow. Indeed, the
OP doesn't seem to have considered it an option. This is exactly what allows
the manager to treat the OP this way. The OP needs to show the manager
otherwise.

Even if the OP finds a moderately nicer job later on, which I am sure they
will, they need to do more to avoid reaching such a position in the first
place. Or, this will happen again.

~~~
s_q_b
Just to be perfectly clear, blackmail is not an option, as it is both illegal
and unethical, and I will not do anything of the sort.

I would also like to ensure that I correct the original comment in that I do
not have sufficient legal knowledge to be certain that anything illegal or
improper was done, which is why I am consulting with counsel before acting.

~~~
drchase
Not much to add given that you are consulting with counsel, but be aware that
one extremely valuable attribute of legal counsel is that is where you deposit
any documents that you think might be relevant -- you will surely be required
to surrender all employer IP if fired, if you think there are legal issues
that require you to retain documents, it's almost necessary to have them in a
lawyer's care (and the lawyer will tell you what to say). I _think_ and
(IANAL) it would be something like "I was concerned about the circumstances of
my termination, and I felt I needed to consult a professional to be sure I
took the right steps." Which is true, yet vague, yet also not overtly
threatening.

I would be wary of whistleblowing, but I would also be very wary of saying
anything more to your employer than what is legally required (or than your
lawyer advises). I don't see that we have socially made whistleblowing worth
the risk to you, therefore, you should not take that risk, but if it helps
your case, your severance, whatever, for your soon-to-be-former employer think
that you might make trouble for them if they piss you off even more, that
might be okay (if they're certain that you might make trouble for them, that's
another matter and maybe a problem).

For the non-legal and probably more useful advice, this does not sound like a
job that is worth keeping. You can't fix a bad boss, you're not paid enough to
fix a bad boss (it ought to be the case that you would get a massive bonus for
fixing a bad boss, but sadly the world does not work that way) better to look
out for your own sanity and well-being. Don't burn bridges, don't slack off, I
also don't recommend knocking yourself out in an attempt to save your job
because (you wrote here for advice, here it is) it's not worth saving, DO
prepare a resume and send it out, and follow the usual recipe of applying to
as many places as you can stand managing all at once. It ought to take a few
weeks for the sent resumes to turn into interviews, so it's not that likely to
take too much of your (not-slacking-off) time. Ask your lawyer exactly what to
say if a potential employer asks why you're leaving, because it's a delicate
dance and there's things you probably cannot safely say (for example, what
you've said here...).

------
anonbanker
You have been constructively dismissed[1]. You need to be talking to a lawyer
immediately to begin your wrongful dismissal lawsuit. Don't wait until you're
fired. start finding a lawyer now.

if the lawyer you talk to doesn't want to do it, or drags his feet, find a
lawyer who will. You have a straightforward case, and your odds for settlement
will be rather high.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal)

------
aagha
> I have no desire to lose my job, but I am most concerned that being fired
> would place future job prospects in jeopardy.

Unlikely. Firing, head-count reductions, etc. are a normal part of business
today. If it happens, it happens--there's no shame in it. Sometimes, being let
go can be a blessing in disguise.

Take steps to make sure you're safe and mentally happy. It's a job, not your
life. If it's your life, you've just learned a lesson: Don't make your job
your life.

You will bounce back. It's what (most) people do.

------
pknerd
In my last job I had faced similar situation. The HOD wanted to get rid of me
to colleagues and higher-ups. Unlike you I did not hesitate termination. Once
my dues were clear I wrote an email to entire department, HOD, HRM and CEO and
shared everything. The end result, I felt satisfied and some other pals saved
themselves by quitting themselves.

Moral of the story: Be Courageous. If you are skilled you will get a job
anyway. Who knows someone from HN already has approached to you?

~~~
pekk
"If you are skilled you will get a job" implies that the only people who
aren't getting jobs are unskilled, and that is very much false.

------
ScottBurson
In your position I would be looking for another job the moment I was put on 30
day review, if I hadn't already started.

It's easy to find another job when you have one. While, given your specialty,
I wouldn't expect you to have a lot of trouble even after getting fired, it's
still not going to be quite as easy as it will be while you're still in this
job. Start tomorrow!

------
geoelectric
Look for the job now. While you're still employed, you have an airtight excuse
for not providing a manager reference from your current job ("They don't know
I'm looking."). That lets you provide either your last manager, or a
sympathetic coworker instead.

Wait until you're gone and it gets much sketchier. People will assume the
worst if you don't provide your previous manager.

------
joshribakoff
Whats more likely, that your boss "gets off" on wrongfully firing you, or that
there's some attitude problem you don't recognize about yourself?

I'm going to say something that'll probably be unpopular & rude, but you want
an honest answer. I don't know the full story, but from your own accounting of
it - it does sound like you have a problematic attitude & the problem may be
with you & not the company.

Your boss told you to follow someone's instructions & work under a person.
Instead of helping, you went above that person's head & above your bosses head
& consumed time auditing your superiors. You also called them an "expert"
(backhanded compliment).

Personally I'd rather hire someone less skilled who follows instructions. If
someone asks me what I think about a person's work, I'll be honest & say its
not in compliance, but it sounds like you're going around actively telling on
people for trivial stuff. They have a right to weed that type of attitude out,
and you have a right to seek employment that values that type of attitude - so
stop fooling yourself with this talk about "fair" & "not fair". If you're in
an at-will work state there's no such thing as "unfair" termination. They
don't want you anymore. Either make them want you (by being honest with
yourself about what they disliked), or accept it & move on.

~~~
s_q_b
I've thought that through deeply, but the reality is that this isn't about
fairness, this about a very specific set of actions. I didn't "go around
telling on" anyone. I simply told my project manager that we couldn't use the
document I was instructed to write for the purpose he was asking, because
ethically I did not feel it would bring us into compliance with a mandated
standard.

I am sure your intentions are good here, and certainly this a time to reflect,
but I am not complaining about fairness of anything.

It's simply not ethical to put someone on review for raising an issue after
months of careful consideration, especially given that my superior concurred
with the judgment, and cut ties with the "expert" under whom we working. (I
put "expert" in quotes not for snark, but because I want to be clear that this
is the firm's terminology, not mine.)

I should also note that my colleague with whom I worked on the project, but is
outside of my superior's chain of command, concurred with my concerns and
stated so as well.

------
atlih
Don't worry about it. There's plenty of need for Data Scientists and the need
is growing exponentially in the months to come.

------
mavdi
Mate my two cents: move on. I see a lot of comments urging you to fight this
tooth and nail but it really isn't worth it. It's a losing battle, the job is
lost and whatever you do to try to win it back will not work unless some
miracle happens. Save your energy for a new job, a better job working for
people that value honesty and integrity.

------
pkaye
Main thing is make sure you have collaborating evidence against your manager.
Like good past reviews and coworkers who would support you. HR loyalty lies up
the management chain so normally it is an up hill battle. But if you are a
good performer and have others who support you, HR can be turned around.

------
tberghane
If you're about to be fired, I advocated saying NEXT and moving on to
something better. We work with about 25 tech startups here in NYC, and
currently have a handful of Data Sci Roles that could be more than happy to
chat. Feel free to shoot me a note: taylor@singlesprout.com. Happy to help!

------
mbrubeck
My sympathy; this is a tough situation and you don't deserve to be in it.

Some words of hope: In a surprisingly short time, you will be able to look
back at this with some much-needed distance. You'll have moved on to better
things, and the problems of your old firm will no longer be your problems.

------
yegor256a
Check this, maybe it will help you: [http://www.yegor256.com/2015/03/02/team-
morale-myths-and-rea...](http://www.yegor256.com/2015/03/02/team-morale-myths-
and-reality.html)

------
jms703
You don't want to work for this kind of company. Start interviewing now. If
you're really worried about the fallout from termination, then quit.

If you're as good as you say you are, your departure will have an impact and
you'll have your choice of jobs.

------
arbre
Don't worry too much about the impact on your career. People know that these
things can happen. The recruiters might have had similar experiences
themselves. Fight if there is an injustice and then move forward. I wish you
luck !

------
zerr
>blackballed from most firms in this city

Why? Do you have some kind of Public Hall of Shame where you put those who
have been fired? Or do you live in some small village where everyone knows
everyone and everything? Really interesting.

~~~
alexqgb
The problem is that while prospective employers can't ask your companies HR
dept. to verify anything beyond the most basic facts of your tenure, they can
make note of whether your direct manager is included in your list of
references.

The fear (perhaps unjustified) is that any signal indicating a less-than-
amicible seperation will be treated as a red flag by potential employers, who
would prefer to give the position to someone who is either recruited for that
spot in particular, or is trading up cleanly.

This is less of an issue for people with a specific and clearly demonstrable
skill set that's in high demand, but to the extent that finding a new position
demands some growth on your part (i.e. an employer willing to place some faith
in having you develop on their dime) this can add to the potentially crippling
sense of self-doubt and insecurity that a situation like the OP described will
engender.

There's a school of thought that says your optimal career moves should be
based on you getting yourself into places you want to be, not running from
places you don't want to be. If you know this, and you're in a situation like
this, you already feel you're having to make the most of a bad hand, and that
where ever you go next may end up being a severe compromise you have to live
with for some time.

~~~
cromulent
a) Hi, I'm calling to check the references of your ex-employee named Ted.

b) We have a company policy against giving references but I'd be happy to
discuss the weather with you.

a) Okay.

b) The clouds are moving lazily across the sky and everyone thinks they're
stupid.

[http://assets.amuniversal.com/bcdb80c06d5101301d7a001dd8b71c...](http://assets.amuniversal.com/bcdb80c06d5101301d7a001dd8b71c47)

------
DanBC
What does your union rep say?

------
moron4hire
I think you're grossly over estimating the impact of getting fired.

------
eweise
Contact an employment lawyer. Are you over 40? Do you work overtime? Are you
covered under whistle blower laws? You are probably going to lose your job but
you may have a solid lawsuit.

------
CodeWriter23
I believe rejection is the universe's way of helping you find out where you
truly belong. It is hard to see that in the present; it really can only be
observed in hindsight.

------
2390902390
Throwaway for some reasons.

I would like to be fired, but I was never lucky enough:

1) in my country you get 3 months redundancy (unless you steal or make other
crime on company).

2) you get 1 year unemployment support. Not gonna happen if you resign on your
own.

3) as alimony slave you can not quit your job. Being fired is opportunity to
find less demanding job.

Anyway for your issue I would recommend two things:

1) go to your boss, tell him you do not care about his screw ups, and ask to
be reassigned far away from him to different department, or different company.
Explain him how bad your situation is, and that he is going down with you.

2) Discover that you are gay or your great-great-great-great grandfather was
from Africa.

------
SEJeff
Have you considered reporting your supervisor to his supervisor? Talking to
HR?

------
walshemj
Can you file a grievance against your boss using the company's procedures?

------
a3n
It's 30 days notice. Start looking. Resign before being fired if you can.

------
remyp
Even if you get "blackballed" in your city (which seems unlikely) that doesn't
stop you from finding a remote position with a firm in another city.

------
DevKoala
Start looking for a new job now.

------
funtober
Hi. Nights & weekends startup founder with a day job at a whistleblower law
firm here. [1]. The following comes with all of the standard caveats about
this not being legal advice. [2]. I'm going to talk generally and you can draw
your own conclusions. But my advice is to call an employment attorney tomorrow
so they can give you specific advice. Most will do a free initial
consultation, and anyone good would take a look at whether you should be
reporting this to the government under one of the whistleblower programs.

Quitting is almost always a bad idea unless you have enough savings to last a
ridiculously long time. If someone quits, they forfeit unemployment in most
situations. Future employers will ask you why you quit, and you will be in
essentially the same position as if you were let go.

Interviewing: Everyone should always be interviewing. Most employment is at-
will and you can be fired for almost any reason. It's easier to find a job
while you still have a job.

Internal Reporting: Frequently doesn't end well for the person reporting
compliance issues. Be especially sure that the violation is a real issue
before continuing to report it.

Retaliation Lawsuit: There is no catch-all law protecting people from
retaliation. There are piecemeal statutes that cover a number of popular
situations, but they also depend on your state and the specific issue that you
reported. If you are covered, you are looking at several years of litigation
in order to receive a maximum of what is usually 1-2 times your lost
compensation while they attempt to prove that they fired you for a legitimate
reason. If the company is legit, they would probably offer you severance that
eliminates this possibility.

Whistleblower Rewards: There are a number of federal programs that offer
rewards for bringing information to the government. The two that would be most
applicable to a data scientist I think are the False Claims Act (health care,
etc) and the Dodd Frank Act programs (SEC & CFTC for violations of securities
laws). If you take information to the government and they fine the company as
a result (greatly simplified as there are lots of other terms and conditions),
then they offer between 10 and 30 percent to the whistleblower.

Sorry this has happened to you.

[1] Feel free to track me down if you want to chat. For those considering
downvoting this as solicitation, I will say up front that it's unlikely that
my firm would be interested in the situation as described.

[2] This is general information that you can find elsewhere on the internet.
It isn't specific advice to your situation. This answer does not form an
attorney-client relationship. We would only have one if you signed a written
retainer agreement with my firm. Each state has its own laws/rules and I'm
only licensed in one state, which is likely not yours. So you should seek
legal advice from an employment attorney in your state immediately. Sorry that
this is even necessary to say.

------
NicoJuicy
Ca

------
michaelochurch
_What do I do? Do I simply begin looking for other positions?_

If you mean external other positions, the answer is yes.

Looking for internal transfer is not going to be effective. Once on a PIP,
your odds of moving are effectively zero. No one will say that transfer's
impossible (legal/HR reasons) but it's basically over. It sounds like you were
a good worker but broke the #1 Rule of Corporate Employment: make the boss
happy. Don't worry; this is a common mistake.

 _Do I report his increasingly erratic behavior, and waste of firm resources?_

I wouldn't. It's not worth your time, and it won't get you your job back. You
have 30 days to live, and it takes months to beat a bad boss. Not only that,
but it takes reports from about 3-5 subordinates and most people aren't
willing to risk their jobs. Corporations value consistency over correctness
and his being a manager means that they trust him over you. You won't win.
You'll hurt him a little bit, but that shouldn't be your goal.

I know someone who actually beat his boss. He had a bad boss, he got a bad
performance review for something that wasn't his fault, and he managed to get
five or six people to hit his boss with the same story in "360 reviews" and
take him down. It took months and, while his performance reviews were amended,
he was still screwed. Even though he had taken out one of the worst managers
in the company, managers (like police) tend to protect their own, at least
when it comes to the outside world, and no one wanted to promote him or take
him on. He ended up getting laid off a year later.

 _Do I quit before the period expires?_

Only if you find another job. You might get a severance if they fire you. If
you quit while you don't have a job, you get nothing and the result (you're
unemployed) is the same as if you'd been fired.

You are going to get fired at the end of the 30 days, but getting fired isn't
(except in a few overly chatty/cliquish industries) a big deal at all.

 _I do not wish to move, and if fired I will be effectively blackballed from
most firms in this city._

Why? Most people, by age 40, have been fired at least once. It sucks, but it's
not the Scarlet F that you might think. If you pass the siege test (6 months
of savings) then it may be expensive, but you'll survive it.

As for reputation issues: I think the firm will be good to you unless it's run
by idiots. You have knowledge of illegal activity. You absolutely cannot
leverage that in asking for a cash severance (it's extortion) but, if they
don't agree to a contractually-guaranteed positive reference, it might be time
to bring up the fact of the need to reach mutual agreement on a story that is
beneficial to both parties. You'll probably get an arrangement in which you
can represent yourself as employed during your job search. You may get a
contractual written reference and an agreement by your manager not to
contradict it.

They would rather let you go in a way that doesn't blackball you than have you
blow the whistle. Trust me.

Use your colleagues as references and have your manager's reference checked by
a third party, even if you have a contract. Unless his reference is glowing,
don't use him. Say that your manager went on a mission to Uganda and that's
why you can't use him, or that you were managerless due to bureaucratic error
but colleagues X, Y and Z can speak for your ability. Or, take the risk and
tell the truth: you refused to do something illegal and were fired for it.
(Say as little as possible; bad-mouthing an ex-employer is generally a no-no,
and it's usually seen as better for both sides to tell a mutually face-saving
lie than to expose an ex-employer's bad behavior.)

You should reach out to me (michael.o.church at Google's email service) if you
still have questions.

Getting fired is bad-- three months of joblessness is expensive, especially if
they fight your unemployment claim-- but it's not catastrophic and the
likelihood that any of this follows you is low.

Also, it's actually pretty hard to blackball someone. I've had people try to
blackball me and I ended up winning. In some cases, I've made the attempts to
do so very expensive for the people involved.

~~~
marktangotango
>> You have knowledge of illegal activity.

I'm surprised you bought this as well. The OP claims there are compliance
issues contrary to federal law, but he's not a lawyer (at least the OP did not
state he was) or a compliance expert (indeed a novice needing traingin), and
anyone who's dealt with compliance knows there are vast degrees of wiggle room
when interpreting regulations. So, the claims of illegal activity are hollow
and unstubstantiate, imo.

------
Firegarden
Listen man. There is a certain power in walking away. Don't give that away.
Think about your power for a minute. How much power would it be to hand in a
written letter CLEARLY outlining the issue described using MINIMAL WORDS?
Somebody would have to look at the situation in detail and if you really
deserved to be commended for your honesty then it would come out.

The tables would be completely turned.

1\. You would have officially quit. HUGE WIN 2\. You would have an opportunity
for others to see your side of the story FIRST 3\. You may have some chance of
coming out on top and even staying with the firm if your letter was written
with "much regret" that you absolutely have no other choice because of the
hostility and actions of retaliation etc. 4\. You can take that letter to the
next employer and say I stand behind my actions in a tough situation.

Stay with your power man. You don't want to risk carry around the victim chip
forever more you will either be telling this story as a sore loser or as a man
with a power and sense of right that can never be taken from you by a
"superior".

Bottom line it's victim vs empowerment perspective. In your question post (no
offense) you sound like a victim of some one else's actions against you.
Really it's just one perspective. Assume the self empowered perspective and
they will have no choice but to recognize. Tell the story of how you don't
take BS you throw it in the trash.

Fu _k you, fu_ k you, your cool, fu*k you im out.

[EDIT] P.S. If you really want to step it up and become movie ending cool. You
get that letter done up and you walk in with it. You show the envelope to the
bad boss and you say in a private way to only him "I am handing this in to
watch you suck tomorrows dick".

~~~
dllthomas
_" 1\. You would have officially quit. HUGE WIN"_

Until you have to collect unemployment, or sue for wrongful termination.

~~~
a3n
If you're fired for cause, you probably can't collect anyway.

~~~
dllthomas
Possibly. It all depends a great deal on jurisdiction and circumstance.

[http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-
benefits...](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefits-
when-fired-32449.html)

 _" In many states, an employee's misconduct has to be pretty bad to render
the employee ineligible for unemployment benefits. An employee who is fired
for being a poor fit for the job, lacking the necessary skills for the
position, or failing to perform up to expected standards will likely be able
to collect unemployment."_

To be fair, quitting in this instance may fall under "constructive discharge",
but generally speaking for this kind of thing you have significantly better
odds when the other party needs to demonstrate that you're an exception than
when you do. I know a place I worked once caught someone with their hand in
the till, and wound up paying unemployment because proving it was going to be
a bigger hassle.

[http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-
benefits...](http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unemployment-benefits-
when-quit-32450.html)

~~~
s_q_b
If fired, I would be eligible for unemployment benefits essentially no matter
what. The employer would have to prove gross or serious misconduct for
benefits to be denied, and that would only result in a delay of eligibility,
not an outright disqualification.

Also, the onus is on the company to demonstrate the misconduct, and the price
of an attorney to make that case would far exceed the cost, and creates risk
of litigation. So I mostly likely won't be begging on the street, which is a
tremendous relief.

