
Rat had 'no brain' and somehow lived a normal life - respinal
https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/01/22/this-rat-that-had-no-brain-it-somehow-lived-a-normal-life/
======
blight
[https://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=6116](https://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=6116)

same case but in humans, he had a "normal" life.

~~~
JamesBarney
[https://www.gwern.net/Hydrocephalus](https://www.gwern.net/Hydrocephalus)

Gwerns very detailed write up on the conditoon

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anonytrary
> It was only after they traced chemicals in the brain that they were able to
> verify that, indeed, the hippocampus was that squished, displaced object
> pushed toward the back of the brain.

Main takeaway (misleading title) is that this rat had a brain, but a region of
fluid developed and pushed the brain towards the edges of the cranial cavity.
The rat was still able to do most of the other basic tasks as the other rats,
but may have suffered from anxiety.

And that's the extent of this article. I don't think we know how higher order
functions were affected. I would guess that these (like what humans have) are
not necessary to sustain life. A species can exist indefinitely as long as
they can feed and reproduce faster than they die. These things are easy to do
without higher order functions if food and reproductive mates are readily
available.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lab rat without 99% of their brain didn't change
much or could still complete basic tasks. I would be surprised if a human
without 99% of their brain could function normally in society today, which
requires relatively heavy higher order brain function.

~~~
saurik
Huh. I had a memory of reading about a human who had the same issue you quoted
(I honestly have not clicked through to the article about the rat) and found
an article about it with images I am finding extremely familiar.

> A man with an unusually tiny brain manages to live an entirely normal life
> despite his condition, which was caused by a fluid build-up in his skull.

> Scans of the 44-year-old man’s brain showed that a huge fluid-filled chamber
> called a ventricle took up most of the room in his skull, leaving little
> more than a thin sheet of actual brain tissue (see image of the patient’s
> brain, above left).

[https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-
tiny-b...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-
shocks-doctors/)

~~~
FeepingCreature
But see also /u/gwern's excellent writeup on these dramatic images:
[https://www.gwern.net/Hydrocephalus](https://www.gwern.net/Hydrocephalus)

~~~
foobar_
Goddamn, that is the stuff of nightmares. I think it makes sense to think in
terms of smaller neural networks that can do more.

It makes sense. I don't know how Game AI Enemies are scripted but they seem to
use very minimal code.

This should also imply that the spinal cord is more important, as the brain is
just 1/10ths ? of the nervous system.

~~~
RankingMember
I don't understand why you and Gwern consider it to be the stuff of
nightmares. It's a medical abnormality, but I don't understand the fear
response.

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greendude29
The title is very click-baity. It's another demonstration of the plasticity of
the brain, which the author has called 'no brain'

------
mkl
Things like this have happened in people too. E.g.
[https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-
tiny-b...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12301-man-with-tiny-brain-
shocks-doctors/) and [https://www.irishtimes.com/news/remarkable-story-of-
maths-ge...](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/remarkable-story-of-maths-genius-
who-had-almost-no-brain-1.1026845)

Gwern has a good summary, including criticisms:
[https://www.gwern.net/Hydrocephalus](https://www.gwern.net/Hydrocephalus)

~~~
ptha
Similarly the story of Noah Wall, _The parents of a boy born with only 2
percent of his brain have spoken out about their son 's "extraordinary"
development._

 _Shelly and his father Rob Wall spoke of how their six-year-old son has since
gained function in 80 percent of his brain._ [1]

[1] [https://www.newsweek.com/miracle-boy-born-no-brain-grows-
bac...](https://www.newsweek.com/miracle-boy-born-no-brain-grows-back-1338637)

------
jaclaz
Similar (but different), Mike, the headless chicken:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken)

~~~
andai
> It was determined that the axe had missed the jugular vein[7] and a clot had
> prevented Mike from bleeding to death. Although most of his head was
> severed, most of his brain stem and one ear were left on his body. Since
> basic functions (breathing, heart rate, etc.) as well as most of a chicken's
> reflex actions are controlled by the brain stem, Mike was able to remain
> quite healthy.

~~~
mLuby
"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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firethief
From this article it's not clear if the rat has many fewer neurons than
normal, or small neurons compressed together. Given its high level of
function, I'd be more surprised by the former.

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nabla9
Humans with the same condition and most of their brain 'gone' can also live
normal life:
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(07\)61127-1/fulltext)

------
_Microft
Here is a case of a woman missing her cerebellum who also showed less effects
than expected: [https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329861-900-woman-
of...](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329861-900-woman-of-24-found-
to-have-no-cerebellum-in-her-brain/)

------
Ardren
Paper here:
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53042-3](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53042-3)

------
fctorial
For a rat, the spinal cord could be just as big, or bigger than the brain in
mass. It's possible that the spinal cord does majority of processing for rats,
like cockroaches.

~~~
interfixus
I wasn't really aware of cockroaches possessing spinal cords.

Flippancy aside, rats are sophisticated mammals with basically the same set of
higher order functions as ourselves, although of course in different
quantities.

------
sneak
See also:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage)

~~~
bobmaxup
Phineas Gage did not live a normal life.

~~~
catalogia
Well, no. But maybe he could have. He died young from a seizure that I'm
_guessing_ had something to do with his injury, and he famously became a
complete asshole after his injury.

But that said, wikipedia suggests that he began recovering his social skills
in the years after his injury. Perhaps if he hadn't died young, he could have
returned to some sort of normalcy.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage#Social_recovery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage#Social_recovery)

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kalium_xyz
More and more do I get convinced one of the primary functions of the brain is
filling up space in the skull.

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m3kw9
It says it may have “heightened anxiety”. It probably knows his own brain was
limited in some sort of abilities, so it subconsciously limited risk taking

------
dang
Url changed from [https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/this-
ra...](https://www.technologynetworks.com/neuroscience/news/this-rat-had-no-
brain-and-it-somehow-lived-a-normal-life-329774), which points to this.

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zaphirplane
I read that as redHat and re-read the heading a couple of times thinking what
! New NY resolution spend less time reading about tech

~~~
psnosignaluk
I somehow read that initially as RedHat as well. Curious as to how my habit of
skim reading and incorrectly logging information has filled by brain with
bitrot over the years.

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konstmonst
Am I the only one who red "Red Hat had 'No Brain' and Somehow Lived a Normal
Life"?

~~~
js2
You are not the only one. After I realized my mistake I figured I couldn't be
the only one and searched and found your comment.

~~~
cbron
ditto

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hkt
See also, most layers of middle management.

~~~
winrid
As an ex-manager, I laughed.

~~~
cambalache
HN is nice, but it is too humorless, people take themselves way too seriously
here. Banter and humor are great social lubricants.I miss that coming from
Slashdot. So thanks.

~~~
RankingMember
I agree, but I think there's a fear that people will take it too far and we'll
end up in Reddit hell with endless chains of worn out puns and unfunny
copy/pasted jokes.

