
Oracle sues its own star sales rep after she wins back $200k in pay fight - Dotnaught
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/26/oracle_sues_employee_undo_arbitration_loss/
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salesguy222
hi everyone,

i'm a sales guy at oracle. feel free to AMA, i'm here for a bit (5:45 NY time)

i wanted to add that a yearly commissions earning of +800k would put you in
the top 50 of all 80,000 global sales people (we have 139k employees)

so when the article says that her contribution is minor in the eyes of oracle,
it really shouldn't be seen that way, because they are screwing one of the
company's best sales people 10x harder than they screw the rest of us

also, they screw us in the following ways: withhold payments, late payments
for months, improperly calculated profit margins (we are paid on profit not
rev), changing our rates mid year, data entry errors that assign commissions
to wrong sales reps...

you name it, they do it. all about cost cutting. no desire to retain employees
or customers.

EDIT: i appear to be rate limited so i will will either comment with edits or
just wait until it expires :)

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solipsism
_i appear to be rate limited so i will will either comment with edits or just
wait until it expires_

This "you are posting too fast. Please slow down" BS is a real mistake on HN's
part.

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grzm
It's likely put in place to prevent abuse by using new accounts to spam. I
think it's a reasonable measure. I believe I've seen at least one case where
the mods have exempted a new account used for legitimate purposes from this
restriction. 'salesguy222 may want to contact them to request such an
exemption. See the Contact link in the footer.

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salesguy222
it was a bit frustrating to deal with because it was actually rate limited by
IP, and after only what, maybe 5-6 posts in a 30 min period

but i guess it isn't really a big deal because i am able to post now and at
least i have a throwaway

~~~
grzm
Thanks for the clarification. The IP rate-limiting makes sense from a spam
prevention perspective. If spammers can get around the limiter just by
creating additional accounts, it would defeat the purpose of rate-limiting.

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salesguy222
i agree with you on this, surprisingly posts on this site are a bit durable (a
few days at the top pages?), so the urgency of commenting with a new account
isn't as severe as something like 4chan

I think if my opinion was truly valued urgently and anonymously, I should just
make a paste bin or github post and let my writing stand as its own topic

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protomyth
So, sold $10,456,055 and Oracle is mad about $257,335.79. I seem to remember
stories of other companies screwing their sales people (e.g. Perot).

Seems incredibly short sighted and carries a valuable lesson to the other
sales people.

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salesguy222
yes, you absolutely nailed it. oracle actually does it on purpose, since cost
cutting will always be more important than employee retention in the eyes of
the company

oracle wants all of its best people to quit, especially if they are walkin
away from a high spending account. they will put a younger employee to service
the account at 50% cost, and whether the relationship gets better or worse
they don't care, because they've realized the cost savings...

... and any revenue growth the company needs comes from acquiring other
companies, not from happy customers

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chrisabrams
Is this to say they acquire other companies for their customers?

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salesguy222
yes i would say that is correct. oracle (we) make most of our money from the
fortune 500, and specifically oracle database SUPPORT CONTRACTS from those
companies

since then we have not been too good at innovating, so we buy companies
technology + customersfor the explicit purpose of soaking up as much of their
existing revenue as we can, to pad the falling sales of our databases, hw etc

then, inevitably, after we have abused our relationship with those customers
and the sales reps on those accounts, we... buy more companies and start the
process all over again (see netsuite), rather than fixing the abuse (see
hyperion, peoplesoft, jdedwards)

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lovich
Is binding arbitration not binding? Why would a court take this case when
Oracle is the one that brought the arbitration clause

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pm90
See the end of the article:

> Oracle doesn't want to pursue the case in open court. Rather it's asking to
> have the case re-arbitrated, with a different arbitrator.

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gozur88
I had a laugh at that. Apparently binding arbitration is binding only when the
company wins.

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mannykannot
Exactly, and it is not a laughing matter. Have you noticed how common
arbitration 'agreements' (that you cannot in any practical sense avoid) are
becoming?

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gozur88
To be fair, Oracle is suing but they haven't actually won. The courts may
decide to let things stand as they are. We shall see.

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hunterjrj
Could someone familiar with these kinds of arrangements please explain why the
commission rate would drop so precipitously when quota is exceeded above 250%
for a given customer?

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salesguy222
made an account just to comment. i'm a sales guy at oracle and this case is
absolutely common at the company.

i am not surprised that oracle used our sales contract (which is stuffed full
of every self serving rule under the sun and changes almost every quarter
actually) to screw a hard working sales employee arbitrarily

it really is as bad as it seems. they want to lower cost of sales in every way
possible, including illegally. if you sue, they sue back. if you quit, they
hire a younger person at 50% pay to service the relationship

EDIT: sorry about that, was rate limited for a bit

i took this job because oracle hired me and 200 of my colleagues at the tender
young age of 23 straight out of college with no experience selling technology
or to enterprises. for many of us, this was our best and only offer, so it
made complete sense in 2013

75% of my colleagues quit for other sales jobs/grad school within the first 14
months (!)

those of us who stayed have done so because this job is a relatively palatable
way to make 80-120k per year with very little skill/experience that would make
us attractive to more discerning companies

i myself will last 1 more year and then be laid off most likely, and i hope to
be a technical account manager at a smaller place that values my specific
sales and technical abilities that i've honed from all of the bullshit i've
slogged through in this, my first "real job" :)

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chrisabrams
How many of Oracles competitors have sent an offer letter to this sales
person? This is the easiest resume advertisement ever and doubles as a stab at
Oracle's profits.

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rockdoe
She might have a non-compete agreement. In fact this thread makes it sound
likely.

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salesguy222
I don't know this sales rep and I haven't looked up her online presence, but I
would say it's unlikely oracle made her sign an NDA or non compete, even at
her position (field sales on a key account i think? which is as high as you
can get at the company)

oracle would definitely never hire her back considering the legal history
between them, because oracls is relentless and ruthless in replacing
"outspoken" employees with cheap obedient ones on a systematic basis

I do think some other competitor that sells old world enterprise tech to
enterprises would have some reservations about her background as a "litigator"
(that stigma wrongly exists in sales)

but clearly she is excellent at her job and i would be surprised if she was
having a hard time finding another sales job

