
An Unexpected Effect of Ultra-Marathons: Temporary Brain Shrinkage - bootload
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/unexpected-effect-of-ultra-marathons-brain-shrinkage-180957450/?utm_source=twitter.com&no-ist
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jackgavigan
It's a pity they didn't normalize/baseline for dehydration, which has been
demonstrated to result in brain shrinkage:
[http://campus.neurochirurgie.fr/IMG/pdf/changement_volume_ce...](http://campus.neurochirurgie.fr/IMG/pdf/changement_volume_cerebral_avec_hydratation.pdf)

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rubyfan
I'd love to do the same study on an 8 hour day of meetings and compare to an
extended period of uninterrupted coding.

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cafard
Goodness. There are ultra-marathons, and then there are trans-continental
ultra-marathons. I have a friend who did a number of 50s, at least one 100 (I
was there to watch), and I think a Canada to NYC run. Her brain seems to fine
as she approaches 60, but her knees aren't up to long distances.

(Full disclosure: I ran a few times over 26.2, only once as far as 50.)

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bootload
_" as she approaches 60, but her knees aren't up to long distances."_

@cafard, know the feeling. Most of the people I know who ran seriously retired
in their 40's, knees smashed. What caught my interest in this article was the
quote:

 _" After about 1,553 miles, the researchers noted that the cartilage that
normally cushions joints showed signs of breaking down. But after that point,
the runners started building their cartilage again, even without rest. "_

What's going on there?

(my disclosure: Keenwalk, 2010 [http://seldomlogical.com/2011/MAR/12/keenwalk-
why-i-went/](http://seldomlogical.com/2011/MAR/12/keenwalk-why-i-went/) cf
Hackernews
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1126078](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1126078)
and regular 2000km/yr PT)

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jacalata
I think recent studies don't support the idea that running destroys your
knees, actually.

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austinjp
This is correct. The true picture is complex and not fully understood.

Distance running tends to increase _surface area_ of knee cartilage. Lifting
weights seems to increase _thickness_ of cartilage.

However, thickness of cartilage seems to have a maximum value beyond which it
will not increase. This may be because the chondocytes (cells inside the
cartilage that produce and maintain it) gain all their nutrition by diffusion,
so cartilage that is too thick would prevent adequate nutrition.

Lack of activity certainly leads to reduction in cartilage thickness, possibly
surface area. It is unclear how exercise should be prescribed to optimally
restore this.

Irregularities in cartilage surface, due to injury or possibly genetic bad
luck, can produce irregular pressure on the underlying bone surface. This
seems to be a driving factor in bone changes in early osteoarthritis.

Everyone's response to exercise is unique to them. It's not currently easy to
say whether distance running is "good for you". However, the benefits of
exercise generally outweigh the risks. Personally I suspect that only a tiny
minority of people are capable of regularly running marathon distances and
benefiting from that.

If you are over 40, don't expect to do then save intensity or duration of your
younger peers, particularly if you are starting a new form of exercise. Your
body has already adapted to your lifestyle, and it will be slower to adapt.
But find what works for you, do what feels good, don't compare yourself to
others, and enjoy yourself.

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mironathetin
"But find what works for you, do what feels good, don't compare yourself to
others, and enjoy yourself."

That sounds good and right, especially 'don't compare yourself to others'. It
is a good Zen training to let others go faster and stick to ones own goals.

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will_brown
I have only recently begun running (18 months) and in that time I have
completed multiple halfs, with my first full in January (actually a 2 day:
half followed by a full). My goal is to beging doing the 5 day desert ultras.

To date it have been an interest learning experience/experiment.

I used to eat Paleo, without any exercise I was fairly ripped. I dropped Paleo
a year ago to incorporate carbs, over the year I have gained 15-20 lbs due to
change in diet, while my overall intake has remained about the same. I don't
think this is unusual for new distance runner who don't change diets as
generally runners will need to increase intake to the point it exceeds what
people burn.

Training in tropical weather (Miami) I have run into the issue of heat stroke
a few times. This is completely distinct from dehydration and pushes me to
train at night.

I developed compartment syndrome and subsequently (thru trial and error)
discovered a topical treatment that does not cure but prevents the symptoms.
Whereas the only solution that appears anywhere online for this phenomenon is
surgery. I would love the opportunity to formally test my topical treatment in
an official clinical lab setting.

Diatance running no doubt has odd effects on the body (short term and longe
term) but from the just based anecdotally on the hundreds of 60-70 years olds
I see in these races who have been running for decades I think it's a good bet
overall distance running has a net positive impact on quality of life.

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austinjp
Hi there. Very interested in your topical treatment for compartment syndrome.
Frankly, I am very sceptical that (a) it works or (b) you had compartment
syndrome. Can you provide further details?

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will_brown
I would simply say this, and if you have CS you should agree, CS is
unmistakable. That said there are 2 types I am aware of, CS as a result of
accidents/trauma and athletically induced, mine being the later.

(b) Within 30 seconds to 2 minutes of running the pressure/pain begins.
Personally I get swelling/bulging in 2 of the compartments to the extent it is
clearly visible to the naked eye (this never happened before the CS or when
using my topical treatment). In the few instances I "power through" the pain,
which I have found mostly impossible, it will lead first to numbness in my
feet (though the pain never subsides in the compartments and only increases)
and then I develop drop foot during the run. Within ~1 minute of ceasing the
run the pain subsides.

(a): I have experimented to the point that I have isolated the CS in 2 out of
4 compartments in each leg. If I don't use the treatment I always have the
pain/swelling/pressure. Additionally, through experiments I know I can target
one of the compartments in each leg and still have the pain/pressure/swelling
in the untreated compartments. Another note, if I apply to topical treatment
and don't run within ~1 hour I will develop the pain/swelling/pressure to a
lesser degree, but when I go running immediately I have had runs as long as 3
hours and do not experience any symptoms.

My discovery was not random luck, as I experimented with rollers, icing,
heating, stretching, shoes, running surface, other topicals, etc... Having
found the treatment I don't employ any other variables such as stretching,
icing, or heating. It really isn't so crazy to conclude there are topical
treatments the body will absorb that could change the fascia viscosity to
accommodate muscle expansion.

As I said, I would love the opportunity to go through clinical testing to
confirm my treatment works. I am not sure how big the CS market is, but I know
that after only 18 months of running I was unwilling to give it up, and
surgery is not practical.

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austinjp
Unfortunately this all sounds highly implausible.

If you have found something that you feel works for you, good luck with it.
The chances that it works by the methods you suggest are hugely unlikely.

Compartment syndrome can be extremely serious. Extremely. If you notice
swelling with numbness or weakness again please go immediately to a hospital.

Good luck! :)

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iSnow
I doubt brain volume shrinkage in itself is alarming - it could well be a
physical effect from the shaking or something akin to dehydration (I know the
brain is suspended in liquor).

Assessing the cognitive capabilities before and after would be more
interesting, but of course much more complicated. Also: 1000+km runs, my
god...

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terryf
> I know the brain is suspended in liquor

eh, a man can dream, but reality be a harsh mistress!

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omginternets
This just in: ultra-marathons are not healthy.

I'm perpetually amazed by the inability of people -- especially Americans --
to distinguish between sport and exercise.

There's a rich body of literature tying high injury rates (unsurprising) and
metabolic dysfunction (more surprising) to extreme competitive sports.

