
Facebook Removing Option To Be Unsearchable By Name - austenallred
http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/10/facebook-search-privacy/
======
netcan
I feel like there is something bigger in play. All the various from state
access to "private" communications, social networks becoming more public and
all the different miscellaneous privacy issues are all different aspects or
consequences of the Thing.

The move towards complete availability of all digital information seems to be
a force of history. Privacy advocates are beginning to sound like copyright
advocates, demanding that the universe continue providing for them in the
manner to which they have grown accustomed.

Like copyright/IP, privacy is more about use getting used to (and in some
cases legislating) how things happen to be, not predesigned or derived from
first principle rules or morality. If 99% of your existence occurs within a
community of 150 people, very little is private. When you live in a 20th
center city, you get a lot of anonymity. You can keep private life (even
several of these) separate from your professional life. etc. Those were just
inevitable consequences of how those societies were structured.

The internet was at first an anonymous place. Pre-2000 most people seemed to
share the feeling that if their real name found its way to the world wide web,
serial killers would come. Then 2000-2005 people started keeping online
diaries, online photo libraries, online lots of personal information. Facebook
catalyzed this process with a semi private system of friends that matched what
people were used to in their normal lives.

The force of history that is 'all your data available to everyone everywhere'
feels unstoppable. Data is data. It doesn't care if it's an email, SMS, baby
photo or GPS log. It doesn't get deleted.

Maybe "Information wants to be free" was an understatement.

I feel very awkward trying to describe this, a clear sign that I don't
understand it. I wish pg Joel Spolsky, Chris Anderson (or ideally, Douglas
Adams - I really wish we still had him) or someone else who's good at this
sort of abstract thing would write a good piece on it.

~~~
11001
This is a very interesting take on privacy and the direction of history.
Another direction of history I'd like to compare this to is the unification of
humanity.

No matter what our opinions on globalization, or diversity of cultures are,
the humanity is inevitably moving towards one culturally homogeneous world.
This may not seem obvious if we look at history on the scale of a few
centuries, but it becomes apparent if we look at our entire history as
species. We started with tens of thousands of completely separate "worlds"
that had nothing to do with one another, and slowly, through trade and money,
religion and imperial expansions we have become a single "world" without a
single completely independent culture left on Earth. Slowly we are also all
agreeing on moral and political values, such as "democracy", "human rights" or
"equal opportunities" (incidentally, values spread across the globe by western
imperial expansion). If you want to object that there are still tons of
cultures left that are all so different, that's simply not true. Can you
imagine Indian cuisine without chili peppers? Or the Russians/Irish without
potatoes? Or the Italians without tomatoes? The whole world smokes, no culture
openly accepts slavery, and so on, and so forth. And all these things and
ideas were introduced just in the past few centuries, an almost negligible
amount of time compared to the rest of our history.

Anyways, so the idea of openness of information, free data, etc. definitely
seems to be a similar force. Again, if we look at the evolution, for most of
our history we lived in small bands where privacy was non-existent, the
ability to gossip was what gave us a major evolutionary advantage over other
species. Still, even today most of things we spend our time talking about is
pure gossip (just think about the proportion of HN articles about the
"celebrity" programmers going to this or that company). So this idea of
privacy, secrecy, etc. is something very new and I guess only the history can
show whether it'll stick or not (as you conjecture).

~~~
macavity23
Interesting.

 _No matter what our opinions on globalization, or diversity of cultures are,
the humanity is inevitably moving towards one culturally homogeneous world._

In terms of geographically-based culture, which I think you mean, I agree
entirely - increasing interconnectivity is causing increasing similarity
between different countries. However I think there's a countercurrent to this
at play too: an explosion in non-geographically-based _sub_ cultures, caused
by the same increasing interconnectivity, which allows communities to maintain
critical mass despite their members being geographically disparate.

Take for example, emo subculture, or hipsters, or death metal, or political
activists of a thousand different kinds, a huge (and increasing) number of
distinct communities: but if you go to San Francisco, or London, or Melbourne,
you'll find a very similar mix.

Those cities are all extremely diverse and highly interconnected examples of
course, but I think it's hard to disagree that's where things are headed
globally.

------
JoeCortopassi
That's cute. Guess there's always one other option, for people that don't want
to/can't let themselves be searchable by name

 _delete 's Facebook account_

~~~
snarfy
But all of your friends still mention you, post pictures of you, and tag you
in them. You'll have to delete your friends too.

~~~
selmnoo
That is one of the things that really, really, really bugs me.

I _want_ to tell my friends "don't ever put up pictures that include me on
facebook" but I can't because it's too big of a request at this point, and I'd
end up being too much of a dick if I started making that demand. I really
struggle with this. Facebook, that evil behemoth, has won big. I really just
wish that it would get hacked or something so people stop trusting social
networking sites. Come on blackhats, do your thing.

~~~
ancarda
I go a step further, I generally ask not to have photos taken. Other than
pictures of me as a child, my family and friends actually have no recent
photos of me. For the most part, people are quite compliant of that request.

~~~
pessimizer
I want you to know that I feel the same way, and I've felt that way since long
before the Internet. I actually think that it runs in my family a bit - we're
very private people.

Honestly, I prefer to live life rather than live the process of creating a
record of a life. I also prefer things to be ephemeral, rather then so every-
decision-you-make-is-permanent. I think people are less adventurous when they
feel like they're performing for posterity.

Of course, I also have a healthy dose of paranoia. The news lately has made me
very happy about the choices that I was making before 9/11.

People _are_ generally good about it. If people want to take a picture of you
or write about you in their blog or something, it means they _like_ you.
They'll probably be amused that you're so private. Of course, you probably
will have to give your best friends a picture once every 10-15 years, but they
already know you're a weirdo, and won't be posting it anywhere.

~~~
ancarda
>I actually think that it runs in my family a bit - we're very private people.

I completely agree. I think a lot of decisions I make are based off cultural
reasons. My family has always had respect for privacy, although only
"offline". ie. they'll knock before coming in. However, as they don't know
much about technology, they all use Facebook and tag every photo. I feel like
they seem to believe the privacy they enjoy offline extends online somehow.

------
protomyth
I cannot wait until we get founders / decision makers at these social network
companies that have to hide from an abusive spouse / ex so that safety of
users might be somewhat of a priority.

The "well, don't use it" response is utter crap given how many real life
functions are being tied into these social networks.

~~~
judk
What is a stalker going to do with access to only your public profile data?

Your stalker already had access to that from every tag and mention of you
anywhere on Facebook.

~~~
riquito
The moment that you wrongly publish something as public and he his monitoring
your account, or when Facebook decides that addresses/events are public too,
you are ____ed up

~~~
lelandbatey
I just... What? Do people really consent to share that kind of their
information? I'm just surprised that people would use Facebook as such an
"everything" platform for all the bits of data in their lives.

I guess I've always kept relatively tight control over my data, at least
whether I want aspects of data about me to be public. I say that even though I
make a tremendous amount of information about me very accessible (name, age,
address, family, phone number, email address, etc). However, for other people
who don't have that luxury, I wonder why in the world they're using Facebook?

~~~
protomyth
Yes, they do. A lot of people manage their lives via Facebook. It is scary and
amazing at the same time.

~~~
tedunangst
Are those people trying to hide from stalkers? If you're avoiding an abusive
spouse, some behavioral modifications are going to be necessary. You can't
keep going to the same bar for quizzo night, regardless of whether you post
about it on Facebook or not.

~~~
protomyth
People's behavior is modeled after their peer group. A person needs to be
careful, but total isolation is counter productive.

------
EvanKelly
I certainly support the argument that this type of option should be the users'
choice, but I'm curious by how many people seem to want to subvert this so
that they remain unsearchable.

I use Facebook so that I can connect with people I meet. If I don't exchange
contact info with someone I meet, but they know my name, it's great for them
to search and find me on Facebook. I don't want my Facebook connections to
solely be people I choose to friend.

I guess it boils down to how people use the service.

Real Question: Why do you have an account, but not want people to be able to
find you?

EDIT: Thanks for the responses, some of them make a lot of sense that I didn't
think of initially.

~~~
glomph
Lots of people need that. Teachers, doctors, social workers, care workers,
people who work in/out of prisons, people who have had violent spouses/family
members and this is just off the top of my head. The list goes on.

It is frustrating that the largest social media network is darn right hostile
to large swathes of people.

Lots of events and groups solely exist on facebook. I think it is kind of
awful that we let a company cut people out of their real life social networks
just because they have stronger privacy requirements than 'normal' people.

~~~
superuser2
Many of my high school teachers' profiles were easily located, but it was
pretty easy for them to keep their information protected and simply explain
that district policy prevents them from friending students. The only
information you leak is the fact that you _have_ a Facebook profile.

If someone has interacted with a public page/event, you don't need to see the
person's profile, you just need to see the public/page event (which is indexed
by Google).

------
erbo
It seems that GTAV's parody of Facebook as "LifeInvader" was even more spot-on
than Rockstar Games realized.

(I wasn't among those that objected to the "Friend Request" mission. After
all, who _hasn 't_ wanted to blow Zuck's head off at one time or another? :-)
)

~~~
joeblau
You've gotta preface this with "spoiler alert"

------
k-mcgrady
I've always defended Facebook and found it really useful. However recently
I've noticed how little I use it and that I could (and would like to) delete
my account.

There is one thing holding me back though. Photos. When I'm out with friends
etc. I don't take photos. There are usually one or two people who do and I can
rely on those photos being made available to me through Facebook/tagging. If I
delete my Facebook account I lose the opportunity to view/save those photos.

~~~
visakanv
I deactivated my Facebook profile for several months. Didn't miss the photos.
Came back. Photos start to look silly, pointless, trivial. If I really, really
want to see something, I'll ask a friend to show it to me over his/her phone.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I personally enjoy looking back on old photos every now and then. It's not
really so I can look at them the next day. I know for sure I would miss that
every now and then.I guess the solution is just for me to take more pictures
instead of relying on other people.

------
b1daly
Not exactly on topic, but related: with all the revelations around the NSA
spying, I've started thinking about the internet as basically a non-private
space. It's a distributed network, and data passes through myriad corporate
and governmental infrastructure. Anything you want to keep a secret, you just
can't put it on the internet. On some level, the power of the internet is
connected with this non-private nature.

I've never understood what the argument for widespread adoption of encryption
on the internet was. To get the same utility, you'd have to have a huge
"private" network, which would quickly become non-private again.

In light of this, it is disturbing that more and more systems of society are
being moved on to the internet. Health records being particularly omninous.
You can choose not to post or have profiles on social networks. It looks going
forward we will no longer have the option to keep private medical info
private.

------
hawkharris
In case this saves anyone some time...
[https://www.facebook.com/help/www/224562897555674](https://www.facebook.com/help/www/224562897555674)

~~~
k3n
I don't think they know what "permanently" means.

~~~
thex86
"Then, if you'd like your account permanently deleted with no option for
recovery, log into your account and fill out this form."

So it is possible to delete your account "completely". I did this once and I
have never been more happier. I actually spent time being tense when Facebook
rolled out a new privacy blunder and would rush to check all settings. Imagine
the time wasted.

So to all those who are contemplating deleting the account but can't - do it.
It's totally worth it.

~~~
k3n
What I was referring to is the fact that they likely never delete your info,
they just set disabled=1, recoverable=0. I have heard anecdotal accounts[1]
and read the writing on the wall[2], along with a hunch, that they would
rather not delete data unless compelled to. Disk space is probably the
cheapest its ever been, and there's a lot that you could learn from one's
profile data, and they undoubtedly data-mine (and probably sell) it regardless
of your disabled status. A 3rd party might be _more_ interested in your data,
say maybe if they determined that their demographic shows a strong inverse
correlation with FB activity. Or maybe the 3rd party feels that they've
already saturated the FB market, and is looking for leads in new markets.
Facebook themselves would stand to gain from crunching numbers to try and
determine _why_ people leave, since that is lost revenues for them.

Although, I hear that the EU (or maybe just the UK?) has strict provisions
around keeping data, and so those users who choose to delete their account
really do have their data wiped. But not the rest of us.

1\.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3145987](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3145987)

2\. [http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/08/29/facebook-reminds-
user...](http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/08/29/facebook-reminds-users-all-
your-data-is-fair-game/)

~~~
ecdavis
"When you delete an account, it is permanently deleted from Facebook. It
typically takes about one month to delete an account, but some information may
remain in backup copies and logs for up to 90 days. You should only delete
your account if you are sure you never want to reactivate it. You can delete
your account here.

Certain information is needed to provide you with services, so we only delete
this information after you delete your account. Some of the things you do on
Facebook aren't stored in your account, like posting to a group or sending
someone a message (where your friend may still have a message you sent, even
after you delete your account). That information remains after you delete your
account."[1]

"Maybe that was true in the past, but today when you delete your data it is
gone. Trust me, I wrote it myself. The law enforcement guidelines that have
been circulating recently corroborate this."[2]

I do wonder what sort of "things you do on Facebook" aren't stored on your
account, though.

[1] [https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy/your-
info#deletion](https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy/your-info#deletion)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3320240](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3320240)

------
recursive
I know several people that misspell their own name on Facebook for this
purpose. I imagine that if people still want to be unsearchable, this is what
they'll do.

~~~
antocv
I know several people that are quite bright in real life but only post cat
pics and unfunny quotes on facebook, then like random useless uninteresting
crap. They are ruining the "experience of facebook/social networking" for
everyone on their friend-list willfully as a slow sabotage.

That is kind of the best thing one could really do to subvert the facebook. It
isnt enough to change name, or to misinform or deactivate etc, the best thing
is really to offer the lower the quality of everything below crap, to drive
others away too. To more fertile and free lands of networking. Whatever that
is, it will be somewhere soon enough.

~~~
jstalin
I love it. I'd sign up for a service that automatically posts inane crap.

~~~
jamesbritt
How inane are we talking about here?

I'm thinking of a script that grabs a random YouTube comment more than N
characters long and posts it someplace else completely out of context.

I'd expect the results to be like _@Horse_ebooks_ , where "horse" refers to
heroin.

~~~
jstalin
I was thinking more like random sentences from a gutenberg book... and of
course cat pictures.

------
ape4
Facebook's main advantage over Twitter was the private-amoung-friends thing. I
wonder why they are trying to kill the thing that sets them apart.

~~~
lmm
No, facebook's main advantage was that you had enough room to write messages
with some content in. And that there was a dedicated events-organizing system.

------
adrr
Can't wait for the influx of friend invites of people i barely know. The
feature was great to keep my profile hidden except to my close friends.

------
pasbesoin
For many who have exited an abusive relationship, this represents nothing less
than a complete betrayal by Facebook.

I have a family member in such a situation. Fortunately, they have stayed away
from Facebook and other social media out of fear of something like this.

Congratulations, guys (and I choose that term somewhat deliberately, with
reference to gender bias in domestic violence statistics): You've just branded
yourselves as well as your product assholes.

------
logicallee
a big "fuck you" to anyone with an unusual name.

~~~
lelandbatey
How is this detrimental to those with an unusual name? I ask because I have an
unusual name (I've never met another "Leland") and I never set my name to be
unsearchable, and I've not had any problems because of this. What bad things
are going to happen?

~~~
auctiontheory
If your name is Mike Smith or Chris Wong or Jane Lee, you can murder and rape
and pillage with the confidence that once you are out of prison, you'll be
"anonymous" on social media - you can hide in plain sight.

On the other hand, if the spelling of your name is unique in the digital
world, as mine appears to be, everything you say and do online can be traced
to you individually. (By employers, for instance. Who want to know how old you
are, or whether you're married, or how you spend your spare time. To pick a
bland example from among hundreds.)

~~~
yeukhon
I find your idea pretty shock. I never thought of that. But then again, if
there is a crime, there is certainly an evidence. The thing is that evidence
is hard to trace. For example, hair and dead skin. it's just hard to find -
you can end up with 10000 individual hair sample on the crime scene.

------
tonyplee
Looks like a class action lawsuit in the near future for anyone harassed by
ex-boy/girl friends, lovers, husband/wife who find such info via FB.

Lawyers can now test market your class action lawsuit with $100 of FB ads.

MVL - Minimal Viable Lawsuit. Like/G+ by Eric Ries. :-)

------
tekk
To be honest, I don't think they are going to go through with this. They are
feeding news sites with this, people will "outrage" and then facebook will
pull back and it'll seem like they actually care about privacy. Nice publicity
stunt.

------
TheLoneWolfling
So does anyone have an alternative? I've seen various suggestions of upcoming
alternatives, but nothing concrete.

------
neya
Many people are suggesting that we delete our profiles. Don't, if you ask me.
I will explain.

1) Because, certain information can be considered valuable - For example old
comments from friends/family on relevant photos, semi-private get-
togethers/events, etc. Because all these can be considered as good
memory/archives of your personal life and the stuff that reminds people of
their relationship with you. For me I consider, these valuable, so it's a no
no to delete my profile as I will end up losing these. I can technically take
a back up if I want, but who opens their backed up index.html once a week, if
not daily?

However, leaving your profile undeleted means you lose a lot of privacy. So
how am I going to hide my profile if it's publicly searchable?

First, understand that your live profile is not only searchable, but also
indexable by google.

Facebook ALSO hands over the stuff you 'like' to search engines. So, you now
like a famous pornstar's fan page/even her post? Well, good luck getting it
removed from Google!

All I need to do to find out what you've liked on facebook is search for your
name in quotes:

    
    
        "<insert your name here>"
    

or even:

    
    
        site:http://facebook.com "<insert name here>"
    

While this heavily depends on the uniqueness of your name, it also means that
it sucks if you are a professional seeking a job or in a similar situation and
all Google returns for querying your name is a list of pornstars you've liked
on Facebook. Pornstars are probably an over-rated example, but in many cases
it could really be awkward - your views against a particular ideology
(feminism/masculism/atheism, for example) and sensitive stuff like that.
Because if you like something, it means you "support it". That's how it's
perceived, atleast.

2) So, back to my point. Deleting is too extreme. Why? Because deleting also
makes you lose control of what's out there. If I am correct, I've observed in
the past that even deleted profiles are not actually deleted, but are assigned
an empty profile with just your name and the default profile picture and this
stuff is still sent to search engines. So, if you delete your profile, you
lose control over this.

What I may suggest doing is temporarily deactivate your profile (There's an
option for this.). This will actually make your profile totally invisible
(from search and indexing) and also from my observations, temporarily un-index
you from search engines. This is good because you still have control over your
profile, you own your data and search engine visibility.

So, what I technically do is, login into Facebook to check what my friends are
upto, say once or twice a month, and then deactivate it. For example, I like
to keep additional family and friends separate and hence I maintain multiple
additional profiles for them, distinctive from my main profile, instead of
using Facebook's unreliably stupid privacy system (circles). Now, I wouldn't
want my friends to discover my family profile and vice versa. Then, there's
the list of dudes whom I will never want to add me, ever. So, maintaining
multiple profiles also, helps me maintain a fake presence on Facebook, while
also masking my search engine visibility of my real profile with the fake
profiles. This works well for me, ymmv. So, just think twice before deleting
your profile.

Cheers.

~~~
spectrum
Downloading a backup from your Facebook account before deleting it let's you
save all of your valuable information. If you then choose to never open this
backup, well I guess the information is not THAT valuable for you.

Deleting my Facebook was very easy and straightforward. 1) downloading the
backup. 2) permanently deleted my account, not deactivate . 3) communication
to my friends I no longer use Facebook and how they can reach me. I still
recieve invitations and photo's via IM and mail, no big deal!

------
joeblau
Is there a tool to purge your Facebook profile?

