

Time to toss the floss - CountHackulus
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Time+toss+floss/7772029/story.html

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zeynalov
I'm a dentist from Germany, University of Heidelberg.

As I see, the author of the article has no idea what kind of benefits flossing
has. She saw someone who didn't used floss and has good teeth. Yes, it's true
that some people are more immune to the diseases than others. I saw a 65 year
old women in Azerbaijan, who had never brushed her teeth and has 30 perfect
teeth, without any paradontitis or tooth decay or any lost teeth. They were
just perfect. Scientist found Mandibular Bones which were 600,000 years old,
and they had all teeth on it. And we're sure that they didn't brush their
teeth. - Homo Heidelbergensis (
[http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Unt...](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Unterkiefer_von_Mauer_%28Replika%29.JPG/620px-
Unterkiefer_von_Mauer_%28Replika%29.JPG) )

So why some people don't get tooth decay or other diseases even if they don't
brush their teeth? There are many factors, but for further read you can search
Google. I'll answer the author of the article. She says that there are no
studies showing if flossing is useful for tooth health. I wonder if she
searched PubMed about that. There are hundreds of studies showing how
benefical floss really is. (for ex.:
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22161438>)

I did several studies on myself and on my wife, about effects of floss. One
most important advice that I can give people: Floss is as important as
brushing.

~~~
codva
From the PubMed link you provided.

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:

There is some evidence from twelve studies that flossing in addition to
toothbrushing reduces gingivitis compared to toothbrushing alone. There is
weak, very unreliable evidence from 10 studies that flossing plus
toothbrushing may be associated with a small reduction in plaque at 1 and 3
months. No studies reported the effectiveness of flossing plus toothbrushing
for preventing dental caries."

That doesn't really support your case.

~~~
zeynalov
That's true, but this study shows some benefits of floss even it's weak.
"Flossing plus toothbrushing showed a statistically significant benefit
compared to toothbrushing in reducing gingivitis at the three time points
studied, the SMD being -0.36 (95% CI -0.66 to -0.05) at 1 month, SMD -0.41
(95% CI -0.68 to -0.14) at 3 months and SMD -0.72 (95% CI -1.09 to -0.35) at 6
months."

I just selected random study from the search results, didn't read it entirely.
But there are hundreds of studies about benefits of floss.

~~~
codva
I wasn't questioning the usefulness of flossing. I want it to be useful. I'd
hate to think of all that wasted time over my adult life!

~~~
beagle3
You should question it. If it isn't useful and you found out now, think of all
the wasted time in the future that you would be saving!

I'm not saying it's useless - but the mentality of "oh, I've been wrong for so
long that I'd rather not find out now" is IMHO a horrible philosophy.

For me - give me the hard facts, however inconvenient they are.

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famblycat
The article says no studies show that flossing has any effect on tooth decay.
But what about gingivitis? I know it's anecdotal, but since I started flossing
regularly, I've noticed a drastic reduction in the amount of times I get
inflamed gums.

~~~
Dirlewanger
Exactly what I was thinking. Tooth decay's one thing, gum health is another,
and wayyyy more important than teeth health (if we have to choose). Filling in
cavities, applying new crowns, all relatively simple procedures these days.
Replacing your gums? Yeah, that's probably going to require grafts from
somewhere inside your mouth and will require seeing an oral surgeon if your
dentist doesn't already do it. Overall, the experience won't be as..."simple"
as a cavity filling.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> _Overall, the experience won't be as..."simple" as a cavity filling._

But they do give you date-rape drugs under incredibly monitored conditions,
and then you wake up at home and spend a few weeks poking the stitches with
your tongue!

Floss your teeth, kids, and brush them regularly.

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cshesse
Google cache:
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ottawacitizen.com%2Flife%2FTime%2Btoss%2Bfloss%2F7772029%2Fstory.html&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ottawacitizen.com%2Flife%2FTime%2Btoss%2Bfloss%2F7772029%2Fstory.html&aqs=chrome.0.57j58.1116&sugexp=chrome,mod=11&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

~~~
cshesse
Here is Dr Ellie's recommended cleaning method:
[http://www.drellie.com/pdfs/The-Kissing-System/Complete-
Mout...](http://www.drellie.com/pdfs/The-Kissing-System/Complete-Mouth-Care-
System-Cliff-Notes-Version.pdf)

~~~
Groxx
> _Q: How often should I use Xylitol?

A: 6.5 grams of Xylitol each day has been shown to eliminate harmful bacteria
in about 5 weeks. ..._

And what other bacteria does it kill off? Since they're recommending it in
pill form, it seems highly unlikely it's just affecting "bad" mouth bacteria.

~~~
drharris
> And what other bacteria does it kill off?

I don't think it's that Xylitol kills off bacteria, just that it makes it more
inhospitable. To be fair, it should still be cause for worry; while some
bacteria do cause acid production that can lead to tooth decay, other bacteria
are part of our immune system. There is little reason to suspect that a mouth
inhospitable to bad bacteria would still allow the good bacteria to thrive.

~~~
Groxx
It just reeks of "bacteria BAD, <x> GOOD" mentality. Like giving everyone
broad-spectrum antibacterials for minor diseases without realizing that it
slaughters the bacteria in your gut, which you generally need to be healthy.
Or the claims that magnets or cell phones or ionized water will only kill good
/ bad bacteria, leaving you infested / healthy, 100% guaranteed*!

The suggestions are interesting, and I might look into them more carefully,
but it has seriously tripped my they're-using-overly-religious-reasoning
alarm.

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commentzorro
My dentist has repeatedly said flossing is for your gums, not your teeth.

~~~
lobster_johnson
This is confirmed by my dental surgeon. (I had a minor graft to fix the
receding gum above one of my canines.)

Plaque is something you need to remove with the toothbrush, by massaging the
area where the gum wraps around the teeth.

On the other hand, my surgeon doesn't believe in mouthwash and says it's a
waste of money.

------
kitcar
This is syndicated from the Time of London: See
<http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/article3606527.ece> here is a daily mail
article with a similar thesis
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2237205/Is-
flossin...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2237205/Is-flossing-
teeth-waste-time--An-expert-says-theyve-got-wrong-.html)

~~~
webwanderings
Does the above Ottawa Citizen article seems like a plagiarized version of what
is there at the Times UK? Lots of similarities.

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codva
I read the article, then tried to go back to it to grab the URL to share. It's
gone.

The flossing conspiracy is apparently deep and quick to act!

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golgo13
I guess the corn in between 8 and 9 has a new home! In all seriousness, keep
those gums healthy, folks.

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shock
Thank you for submitting this. I enjoy articles which challenge popular
"wisdom" very much, especially those related to health. I hope one day we'll
have a computer system to validate all of science's assumptions and when one
of those assumptions turns out to be false by later research, to automatically
correct conclusions drawn based on those assumptions.

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JeffL
The wikipedia info sounds a bit less promising than the claims made in the
linked article: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol#Dental_care>

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nopal
It's 404ing.

~~~
rkowalick
Try <http://www.readability.com/articles/ap1ukxbk>

~~~
codva
That is also a 404

~~~
grayrest
use the 'Readability View' banner at the top for cached version.

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mistercow
This is fascinating. I had read before about xylitol's dental benefits, but I
had not heard that they were so pronounced. I want to do some more independent
research before I jump to any conclusions, but you can get pure xylitol pretty
cheap online. It's a lot more expensive than sugar as a sweetener (~4x) and
_way_ more expensive than sucralose (~20x), but factor in dental bills and it
starts looking downright cheap.

~~~
verisimilitude
When you search on xylitol, use "futile cycle" in the query --essentially,
bacteria take xylitol up because it looks enough like a genuine, useful sugar,
but can't do anything metabolically useful with it. It would be like humans
spending all our energy chewing wood.

~~~
npsimons
Interesting. Reminds me a bit of the parts in Greg Egan's "Permutation City"
(fiction) where the protagonist is trying to force simulated bacteria to
evolve to digest a "sugar" analogue that is poison. Hope our real world
bacteria don't evolve to do anything useful with xylitol.

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tocomment
So do I have to buy the book to learn the recommended procedure, or is it
online somewhere?

~~~
kaila
She has a pamphlet here with the procedure:
<http://issuu.com/zellies/docs/zellies-cmcsbooklet>

And her website with more information here: <http://www.drecoaching.com/>

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thinkling
Ah, toss the floss, not the FLOSS.

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jongold
But what will people use Lift for now?!

------
wissler
Note: this article is about a substitute for flossing, not simply stopping
flossing.

