
The Echo Dot was the best-selling product on Amazon this holiday season - devposter
https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/26/the-echo-dot-was-the-best-selling-product-on-all-of-amazon-this-holiday-season/
======
fermienrico
Google is miles ahead in terms of a conversational assistant.

There is a lot of friction in using voice activated services. If I have a
choice of typing "Weather in XXXXX zip" in the address bar vs. asking an
assistant, I choose the former. Therefore, every time I use anything else but
Google, I am afraid it won't recognize my command and I immediately feel like
throwing that thing out of the window.

I need to be 100% sure that I will get a return on my time invested when it
comes to searching or asking for information. When a Google search fails in a
browser, at least I have something to bite on.

For other things such as timers, calendars, game scores, home lights, music -
assistants are nice.

~~~
dilap
Having to say "OK, Google" instead of just "Google" (or "Alexa") is a deal-
breaker.

Google's products don't feel like they are designed by humans.

~~~
saalweachter
Have you ever been in a room with an Alexa unit when people are trying to talk
about it? It's like a comedy routine with the device activating spuriously
over and over.

~~~
dilap
I have, and it's pretty funny. We quickly adapted to just saying "A." or
"her".

Probably in a few years this whole debate topic will seem quant, as devices
will be much at figuring out when we're addressing them than the primitive
idea of a wake-word. :-)

~~~
tjoff
You're assuming that these devices have anything to offer even if they worked.

~~~
toyg
Considering their enduring popularity in mass-appeal science-fiction
constructs (stories, movies etc), I'm pretty sure they do have "something to
offer".

~~~
walshemj
I want one sounding like EDI from massefect II and II or Orac from Blakes 7

------
dopamean
Are there any assistants that aren't connected to the web? Or at least aren't
by default. Here are some things I'd love to be able to do that don't need the
web.

    
    
        Set a timer
        Set a reminder for something in X minutes
        Take a voice note
        Create lists (maybe could be pushed to phone via bluetooth)
        Maybe some home auto stuff
    

I imagine most of this stuff could be shared to my phone via bluetooth if I
needed it on the go (like a shopping list).

~~~
raoulj
As I understand it, all the voice assistants rely on a backend to do the voice
processing, at a minimum.

~~~
melling
There are several freely available voice datasets.

[https://voice.mozilla.org/data](https://voice.mozilla.org/data)

If everyone who reads HN commits a little time to Mozilla Common Voice in
2018, we might have a non-cloud solution in 2019.

~~~
sailfast
This is awesome. Thank you for pointing me in this direction. This kind of
corpus is going to be extremely important to getting a more diverse array of
voice applications out there in the open.

------
m0ngr31
Google might be ahead in some conversational things, but functionality wise,
Alexa is way better.

Probably has something to do with being on the market first, but developing a
skill is a much better experience than it is with Google (imo). I think that's
a big reason why.

I've developed a number of skills for some big companies, and I'm fighting
Amazon right now about getting my open source one published
([https://github.com/m0ngr31/kodi-alexa](https://github.com/m0ngr31/kodi-
alexa))

~~~
donatj
I find 3rd party skills a painful experience to use.

Having to open a skill like an app before asking what I want Alexa to do feels
completely wrong. It leads to me basically never using any third party skills.

If I wanted to open apps I’d use my phone. I want something more natural.

~~~
tedmiston
You can do it all in one command: "Alexa tell SkillX to do ActionY".

------
adjkant
Makes sense, but give me the Google Home. The Chromecast pairing is insane, a
better speaker in the mini, and frankly, I'll invite Google to own my life
before Amazon.

~~~
lgas
Out of curiosity, why Goole before Amazon?

~~~
figgis
Personally I resent the fact that Amazon has done everything in their power as
a company to make it so I cannot stream amazon prime to my chromecast.

That alone has tarnished my opinion of the company.

~~~
darklajid
I hate that Google has done nothing to enable me to stream things to my
Chromecast.

Unless I use Chrome. Which I don't. Or Android. Which is annoying if I look at
something on my laptop.

~~~
nickelbox
I agree it would be nice to be able to cast without Chrome on a laptop (looks
like VLC had experimental cast support but removed it), but it's literally in
the name...

As for Android, I was fairly certain iOS at least can cast as my Apple fanboy
roommate was having fun messing with the volume and pausing playback.

~~~
bornonline1
Use SodaPlayer.

~~~
darklajid
I didn't know that app.

But it's a crutch AND doesn't allow the same stuff: If I watch a YT video,
it's in my browser. No way to throw it at the TV. If I watch Twitch, it's in
my browser. No way to throw it at the TV.

Maybe it can handle URLs. But if I have to copy the URL, paste it somewhere,
fiddle to get to the same spot in the video ... then I can just launch Chrome
and curse just as much.

(Highly ironic that the player offers the option to install a Chrome extension
to open movies in SodaPlayer. For me the whole selling point of the thing
would be to .. not need Chrome ofc)

------
ferongr
Who could imagine that people would install telescreens voluntarily, and pay
for the privilege?

~~~
CamperBob2
It's long been clear that Huxley's vision has won out over Orwell's.

~~~
thg
It's more a mix of both than an either-or. In the western world we can see
Huxley's vision much more dominantly, while in China / NK it's not far a
stretch to full Orwellian.

However, Orwell's envisioned surveillance apparatus is ubiquitous all over the
planet, no matter what nation you live in.

------
simonjgreen
Several times this last week I got essentially a "sorry, we're busy" message
from my echos. I assumed quite a few must have just come online, but of all
companies I expected Amazon to have made scale work.

~~~
tedmiston
I've been seeing this a lot the past few days as well, even just with some
skills while others continue to work: "I'm having trouble reaching Skill X
right now".

------
francisofascii
As a Star Trek fan, it is pretty cool. I would not have bought it if
"Computer" was not a wake word option. I showed my young girls a few clips
from TNG when Geordi is asking the computer to play music and dim the lights.
The experience is pretty similar. Aside from that, playing music and podcasts
is how we use it. It beats having to find the song you want on a phone.

------
hota_mazi
Hard to tell how significant that news is since Amazon doesn't list any Google
Home product.

And with Google Home Mini priced at $29, it's easy to speculate that it sold
quite a few as well.

~~~
whoopdedo
Also that the Echo can essentially "only" be bought on Amazon. While they
advertise them there, a very small supply was sent to stores. Amazon uses the
retail space for advertising but they're out of stock which drops you in the
lap of Amazon. With other products sales will be split between retail and
online (and retail is up about 4% this year). Or something that is only
advertised online doesn't attract impulse buyers or people who want to see a
demo before they buy.

~~~
mikeash
I saw a huge stock of Echo Dots (Echos Dot?) in at least one local store.

------
gruglife
Am I the only one that thinks these are useless? I got one last Xmas and stop
using it after a month or so.

~~~
mulletbum
I got new tires, but didn't buy a car, so they are worthless.

That is basically what you are saying here. We both agree, it will tell you
the weather, your commute, and play some music. Those are the things you grew
tired of, but many people have their entire homes wired to these devices (me
included). I don't use them daily, I use them hourly at home. It runs my
sprinklers, lawn mowers, vacuums, lights, alarms, timers, starts my car, on
and on. You have to invest in things to get the most out of them.

~~~
throwaway30yo
That is the creepiest thing ive ever read on HN. I am 25 so maybe I am just
getting jaded but that seems incredibly intrusive.

~~~
adventured
It's about increasing productivity, which saves time (hassle, etc). Time is
among our scarcest of resources.

Imagine not having to chop wood for your fireplace. Wouldn't that be amazing,
to save such time? The natural gas and or electricity company is going to
learn something about your lifestyle.

Imagine if you could tap your smartphone and easily get a taxi. That seems
like it could be extremely useful. But then the company is going to learn
something about you.

Imagine ordering a pizza or other takeout and giving them a form of payment
other than cash. That'd be super convenient, not having to only carry cash all
the time and being able to order online. But then the company knows something
about you, such as what food you like to order and when.

Imagine buying a car from Tesla or a dealer and getting it routinely serviced.
Of course now they're going to know how many miles you put on it and they'll
learn something about you from how you treat your vehicle, the condition of
its interior, etc. The gas station and charging station too, is going to know
how often you fill up. But geez it'd be amazing if we had automobiles.

Imagine if we had trains, airplanes and buses that could haul large numbers of
people very efficiently. That'd be pretty cool, what a hassle it would save
not having to walk or ride a horse for 1,000 km. Of course, then lots of
companies and government agencies are probably going to learn something about
you every time you purchase a bus ticket, every time you get on a plane.

Imagine going to the blacksmith, the store, or Amazon.com, and ordering
cookware and not having to craft your own. What a staggering savings of time
that would be. But then the blacksmith might learn something about your
lifestyle.

I don't see much creepy about what the parent said. It's a concentrated form
of the types of technological productivity gains you're using on a constant
basis in modern life and throughout your day, and humans have been using since
the beginning.

Nearly every single thing you touch on a daily basis that is made by people is
conceptually similar to what the parent is doing in terms of boosting
automation / productivity. From using a pencil you bought at Target to the
drink you buy at the convenience store, you're doing the same thing, and they
all involve some trade-off (most of which are entirely meaningless).

~~~
dingaling
To take one non-Tesla example:

> But then the blacksmith might learn something about your lifestyle.

But once the blacksmith has sold me the pot, that's the end of the data-
exchange. He doesn't receive a continual feed of data about my usage of the
pot. Maybe I'll go back five years later to get the pot repaired; that'll be a
surprise to him. Perhaps he'll ask how I broke it, and I can fib to him.

Home automation is a great convenience and time-saver. That's not the concern.
The concern is that megacorps are in the loop and are monetizing our lives.

An Amazon Echo _should_ in an ideal world be able to operate just fine on a
LAN without an Internet connection, or with just a web-server front-end for
the owner to use. Just like my wifi AP or my weather station.

------
paultopia
That happens when you lower the crap out of the price. For 30 bucks with a
freebie, I even bought one. And a google home mini. In the same room.

~~~
melling
Someone put an Echo Dot in my stocking. I’ve been ranting about these devices
for a while and even recently wrote a little blog post:

[https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/voice-as-a-user-
inte...](https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/voice-as-a-user-interface-is-
almost-here/)

Is it worth getting a Google Mini too? I’m told that it’s actually smarter.
I’m going to set up my Echo so I can reorder all the stuff I hate to shop for.

We’ve been waiting half a century for “Voice as a User Interface”. Now we’re
only a decade away?

~~~
StevePerkins
I would say that the Amazon Echo is generally better at DOING STUFF (e.g.
setting alarms and reminders, playing music, adding stuff to your Amazon
shopping cart ( _of course_ ), controlling your TV if you have a Fire stick,
etc). Supposedly controlling smart home gear, although I haven't dipped my
toes in those waters yet.

The Google Home is generally better at ANSWERING QUESTIONS and providing
information. Random queries that pop into your head a thousand times a day
(e.g. Who starred in such-and-such movie? Who won the _last_ time the Atlanta
Falcons played the Carolina Panthers? etc).

Occasionally though, Alexa will surprise you by answering a question where
Google flopped. Either way, like others in this thread, I now have both since
they discounted them so low for the holidays. But for the Google, I get by
with the "Mini" version... whereas I sprung for the full-size Amazon Echo
because I use it for music, audiobooks, podcasts, etc and want the better
sound.

~~~
gh02t
I actually find ghome to be better for smart home use. The app is a little
more intuitive with organization and it is a _lot_ better with recognizing the
names of your stuff. Alexa would have trouble recognizing arbitrary names
while ghome almost always gets it right.

I started with Echo but ended up replacing it with Google Home because I like
it so much more.

~~~
pythonboi
Thankfully I am not the only one who thinks this! I had an argument with my
brother over IoT devices with Echos vs Google Home products.

Google Home still requires you to use 3rd party apps but you are forced to set
up the device in a location in your home/apartment. I can walk into my
apartment and say "Ok Google, turn on all lights" and not have to worry about
which brand of lights turn on.

When I used my Echo Dot my brother got me last Christmas, I had so many issues
with the same command.

~~~
dylanfw
You can create “Routines” on the Echo (like IFTTT procedures). You could
easily create one for “Alexa turn on all lights” that triggers all of your
smart home lights regardless of brand.

~~~
cube2222
And then another one for "dim all lights" and another one for "brighten all
lights" and another one for "set all lights to warm white" and another one
for...

------
neves
Ok, it is cheap. It is also cool. But does the techies here find it really
useful? If so, why?

~~~
icelancer
It gets OK use I've found from people who are between 28-40 adopting new
technology like voice commands.

I have two kids. You should see how they use Alexa. A ton.

Like we adopted technology in ways the generation before us could never
imagine, so will the next. Never forget that we have decades of bias cooked
into our souls; the mouse and keyboard being the primary instruments of UI and
email being the main method of communication.

The next generation has no guarantee of using the same tools we did... and in
fact is very likely to be using something entirely different that seems
unproductive to us.

~~~
melling
Must be a small window of people. I’m over 50 and have no problem wanting to
use voice.

I started with computers as a teenager before the Mac was released. Growing up
watching the original Star Trek in reruns, I thought we’d all be talking to
computers by now.

~~~
corobo
> Growing up watching the original Star Trek in reruns, I thought we’d all be
> talking to computers by now.

I thought the same, but I also thought the computer would be a massive box
somewhere on site like the Enterprise's computer

------
djhworld
I have an original Echo, it's fine.

I use it to listen to the radio via TuneIn, to turn lamps on and off and to
set timers. That's about it really.

Sometimes I use it to convert American imperial units to metric, which is
handy when converting recipes in the kitchen (e.g. "what's 2 cups in
millilitres")

I'm at my parents house at the moment, my Mum primarily uses it to set timers,
and reminders (e.g. remind me tomorrow to do X). Although our pet dog
absolutely hates it though, which is amusing.

~~~
amorphid
I have a Google Assistant. I use it for timers, playing music (on my
Chromecast), and playing the news. That's about it. I can't find another use
case where it seems like the best tool for the job.

~~~
ehsankia
Same here. For $30, it's great value. Some people try to make it more than it
is, or try to use it for absolutely everything. Not all workflows work well
with voice, but the few that do bring great value. Same thing with Chromecast,
for 35$, it's just decent value.

------
andy_ppp
Can we be absolutely certain that everything before “Ok, Google” or “Alexa”
isn’t being recorded, by the companies or by back doors created by the
security services? Seems too much like a telescreen for my liking.

The problem is I would love one I could trust!

~~~
craftyguy
>Can we be absolutely certain that everything before “Ok, Google” or “Alexa”
isn’t being recorded, by the companies or by back doors created by the
security services?

It's all proprietary, so the answer is: no.

~~~
wepple
Correction: it’s all proprietary, so the answer is: yes; you could reverse
engineer firmware

~~~
twblalock
That won't help you find out if Amazon is storing the recordings in a
datacenter somewhere.

~~~
ehsankia
The question here is if the data is being sent back at all or not. If you can
show that either Google or Amazon is saying voice data _outside_ of the
command after the hotword, you already have yourself a huge scandal.

No voice data without hotword should ever even leave the device.

------
tinyhouse
Drop-in is another great feature. If you have more than one echo you can use
them as an intercom. You can also use it to make calls to/from it. This is
very useful if you have kids at home that don't own a phone yet.

------
garybro
I bought my parents five Dots for Christmas to use as intercoms. They live on
a farm, with multiple outbuildings, so if something happened, they can yell at
the Echo in the building they are in for help. Any other use they get out of
it (my dad uses the music feature a lot) is just an added bonus.

~~~
tedmiston
Do they have wifi in all of those farm buildings?

~~~
garybro
Yes.

------
Pica_soO
Given amazons spotty history when it comes to quality- product-piracy e.g. -
this will be hacked and used to plan burglarys and during extended periods of
absence. I shall be interested to see what PR Guns amazon has laying in store
for that day.

------
WalterBright
I don't need that, I already have The Clapper.

~~~
melling
If you weren’t Walter Bright, I’d downvote the comment. You’ve been waiting
half a century for this:

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NM4yEOdIHnc](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NM4yEOdIHnc)

Of course, we aren’t there yet but it’s a step in the right direction. There’s
nothing like a few multi-billion dollar companies in an arm’s race to get us
to the next level.

Maybe an open source version is more your cup of tea? First, we need good
speech recognition:

[https://voice.mozilla.org](https://voice.mozilla.org)

------
paul7986
I’m eagerly awaiting when either Google Home or Alexa show/display your query
via projection on your various walls/surfaces in your house. The info
appears/projects onto walls and other surfaces and remains for a few minutes.

They have the Amazon Show but you have to be up close and it’s only in one
room. I want my digital info/queries to be seen and accessible by just looking
up wherever i am in my home.

------
SN76477
Is it just me or do none of these voice products seem like they are ready for
the consumer? I have never seen one work properly on a consistent basis.

------
mwexler
3 months from now, let's see how many of those purchasers or recipients use it
for something more than "play a song", "what's new", and "timer, 2 minutes". I
hope it's a lot.

Otherwise, we can imagine the next headline: "The Echo Dot was the most-
returned product on Amazon this post-holiday season."

------
sjg007
The echo is great. Hands free control of lights, switches, radio, shopping
cart, recipes really makes it great. I was on the fence about getting one but
I can’t imagine not having one. Same with voice control for the tv.

------
nepotism2018
Thanks to some great third-party plugins I easily linked my RPI:3 with
echo...not ground breaking...to be able to link to separate devices is pretty
cool

------
TheYcMaster
Fun fact: in Italy there's no Alexa products at all. There's simply no market
/ will to spread it there

------
bovermyer
I don't really care why other people buy Echo Dots.

I bought one because it's a useful companion to my Echo. /shrug

------
kyriakos
Alexa is supported in way more countries than Google Home. Personally I have
no option its either Alexa or none.

------
31reasons
Title should be this:

"An always listening device that record all your private conversations, that
may or may not have been compromised (or will be compromised) by the private
and government entities for surveillance and profit purposes has been the best
selling product in the USA (where people refuse to give-up rights to own guns
because they don't trust the government)"

~~~
wepple
Ok, I’ll bite. How does Alexa/home/whatever differ from your laptop? your
laptop has a 10x more dangerous attack surface with a full featured web
browser and a load of internet-connected apps, and yes it has a microphone
too.

~~~
tkxxx7
Laptop will differ in how much control you have over security. Attack vectors
are less likely to be replicable across all users. Smart phone/watch would
work better in your point vs Alexa.

------
beriaanirudh
Funny the article doesn’t say whether it was because echos Dot was sold damn
cheap during the sale

------
pteredactyl
‘Amazon says bestselling product made by Amazon’

------
JulianRaphael
Very revealing discussion. Most of the participants just argue about Amazon
vs. Google here, some fear surveillance, some consider the devices useless, a
few want to understand if the HN crowd finds it useful. This is something I
notice here on HN in product-related discussions more and more: people just
say what THEY think about product X (typically a negative opinion or
complaint), rather being creative, constructive or inquisitive.

Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not
from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that
seem to see value in this product?

~~~
bamboozled
Might I suggest some simple reasons for the increase in sales for the Dot?

* Novelty value, it's a fun idea. It looks cool to buy an "edgy" product for your nephew / niece etc.

* The marketing team worked hard to direct prime customers to buy one for their family / friends as gifts.

* People are out of ideas and it's something new, novel and affordable.

I really don't think people put much thought into presents in general, if
there is something new, kind of affordable and in your face, it's a given
you're going to buy it.

~~~
notahacker
The aggressive price cuts in competition with Google also put it at the
perfect price for "novelty electronic good that may or may not be useful"

(We bought one for a pretty tech savvy 89 year old who we thought might
actually get practical benefits from IoT plugs as well as enjoy the novelty
value of something that interacts vaguely like a human since he doesn't go out
so much these days. But that's something of an edge case)

~~~
wmeredith
> But that's something of an edge case

The Baby Boomers are retiring in droves right now. It's becoming less and less
so (in the USA).

~~~
lev99
I have retired baby boomers for parents. I can confirm that they are both
somewhat tech savvy and enjoy the dot.

