
Toyota invests $50M in Tesla, will jointly reopen NUMMI plant - frankus
http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_15127946?source=rss&nclick_check=1
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xsmasher
OBTAL: "This American Life" produced an interesting (even to a non-car-guy)
history of the plant about two months back:

[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/all/play_music/play_fu...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/sites/all/play_music/play_full.php?play=403)

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MikeCapone
Seconded. I loved that episode (though it made me mad at GM and their
unions...)

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pstuart
Yes, the union doesn't come off very well except for one interesting bit: the
same workers and union went from crap to good when _management_ changed.

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MikeCapone
Yeah, the NUMMI workers really improved. But that was only after they were
fired and could only come back to work if they accepted the change.

In all other GM plants, both the unions and management blocked the changes for
something like 15-20 years.

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Retric
The part I found most interesting is the focus GM had on what you could see.
NUMMI worked because they could get the type of parts they needed etc but they
needed to infect the rest of the organization with the idea before GM could
really benefit.

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dpatru
Seems to me that Toyota recognizes that government is among their biggest
threats. To avoid this, it tries to make itself an insider by hiring citizens.
This makes it hard for government to hurt Toyota without hurting its own
citizens.

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ericz
This is great news both for the future of Tesla and also the workers at the
NUMMI plant!

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volomike
I have been skeptical of the whole electric car movement because of 6 reasons.
1) Running the AC heat or cooling really sucks that longevity. 2) Car wrecks
could become more horrendous because of the acid. 3) Battery pack replacements
are extremely costly. 4) Need more tow trucks fitted with charging kits to
help out. 5) The entire economics of the thing just isn't worked out. 6) Are
these cars actually green, or would they, in whole, including their
destruction, cause more harm to the environment then help?

However, I believe in Elon Musk, an incredible guy, have a desire at least to
see this company succeed, and Tesla's goals are noble goals. So, I'm very
happy that Toyota saw the benefit and decided to invest. This means that Tesla
will succeed for sure.

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frankus
Point 2 isn't really that big of a deal, unless you're using old flooded-cell
lead-acid batteries. Newer lead-acid batteries have the electrolyte absorbed
in fiberglass mats, so it won't spill or splash, even in a collision. An
lithium-ion electrolyte is about as harmful in terms of skin and eye contact
as petroleum fuels, except that it won't catch fire nearly as readily.

All in all liquid fuels are _much_ more hazardous than batteries. In an
alternate reality where electric cars were the norm, I doubt you could get a
liquid-fueled car past the safety regulators.

Point 6 is a valid question. An electric car is still a car, and comes with
all the negative externalities of a car, with the exception of local air
pollution and petroleum dependence. Greenhouse-gas-wise, they are somewhere
between "about the same" and "much much better" than internal combustion
powered cars, depending on your assumptions.

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jacquesm
still on the homepage:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1366138>

twice:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1366106>

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johnyzee
I wonder what makes Toyota feel that car manufacturing in the U.S. is now
attractive again?

Even though the technology is new and different, you would still think that
the economics of mass production remain the same.

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gojomo
Toyota has a lot of manufacturing the US; the NUMMI venture with GM was not
the only toe-in-the-water. See:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_manufacturing_fa...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Toyota_manufacturing_facilities#United_States)

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JoeAltmaier
And of course Toyota wants some GOOD American press for once.

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dmfdmf
I agree and $50M isn't that much to Toyota. Also, there may have been lease or
shutdown and cleanup costs of the NUMMI site that probably would have exceeded
$50M if no one took it over.

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MikeCapone
I wonder how the love triangle between Tesla, Daimler and Toyota will play
out. Does anyone know if Toyota and Daimler have ever collaborated before?

