

Coffee vs. beer: which drink makes you more creative? - kevingibbon
https://medium.com/what-i-learned-today/f7fcb3b786b1

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jlgreco
Obligatory: "Why not both?"

Many of my most productive hours that stand out in my memory were during
binges of "four loko" back when it still had the caffeine (really the only
upside of that beverage. Really horrifying stuff otherwise.) Somehow
vodka/redbulls never really get me to the same place.

~~~
mynameishere
Four Loko also is loaded with sugar. If as an experiment, you really want to
suffer, try this:

[http://www.currentground.com/daily/blackout/blast-
blueberry-...](http://www.currentground.com/daily/blackout/blast-blueberry-
pomegranate)

...it's got to be that flavor. There's an amazing surprise at the end. Like as
in, 24 hours later.

~~~
jlgreco
Hmm, sugar could be it. Now that I think about it I always use diet redbull
with vodka/redbulls...

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mercuryrising
My friend and I have 'Tuesdays'. School used to suck, so we went to the bar
every Tuesday to get away from it. We've been doing this for about two years
now. It's an open time to talk about whatever comes up. We've built some nice
mental structures over the years.

Ideas are so fragile, interruptions often shatter them. The idea 'zen' is off
when there's distractions. You can't really get in the zone. So we go to the
bar alone (where no one can say "I don't know what you guys are talking
about"), get tanked, and talk.

Alcohol absolutely helps with creativity. It makes bad ideas sound better. It
lets you see the world differently (if you're still capable of thinking while
drinking). It lets you gain perspective, although a muddy one. I think it
helps significantly with seeing better pictures in your head. I can sometimes
place where a thought came from (I thought of this, saw this picture, thought
of this, played with this picture), but when I'm drinking, I get the final
picture "HERE, TAKE THIS!". I don't see any of the intermediate steps (they've
gone subconscious or something). It's a pretty fun way to think of ideas.

~~~
mtdewcmu
Even if all it did was make bad ideas sound better, it wouldn't be worthless,
at least if you believe what pops up on HN:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5635461>

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IsaacL
The title might as well be "COBOL vs. FORTRAN: which programming language
makes you more productive?", if you catch my drift. Why limit yourself to 2nd
circuit depressants or 3rd circuit stimulants?

~~~
mkehrt
...circuit?

~~~
tomflack
Referring to the "eight circuits of consciousness" I believe. I'd google it
up, but I'm on the company network right now.

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minimax
I have heard of the Ballmer Peak, but for me even a single pint of beer
totally kills my ability to write code. My creative peak seems to be the first
few hours after a really good night's sleep.

~~~
jseliger
_even a single pint of beer totally kills my ability to write code_

That's probably true, but you might realize what code you should actually be
writing ("I know! A social network for pet owners!"), or some other higher-
level idea. I can't speak much for code, but I can say that I get ideas for
fiction or essays after a drink or two but wouldn't want write new material in
the same state.

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saryant
I used to think that coffee made me more productive, then I realized that
coffee just makes me too hyper to concentrate. Now, when I want to focus, I
either drink ice water or decaf chai tea.

And alcohol? Forget, I can't focus on anything code related after even one
drink. I have no Ballmer's peak.

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duggieawesome

       Always in moderation
       If you decide to drink coffee or beer while you’re working, 
       stick to no more than 2 drinks per sitting and try not to 
       do this more than once or twice per week to prevent 
       dependency.
    

Everything in moderation, including moderation.

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the_economist
There is a great theory that the enlightenment started because Europeans
started drinking coffee for breakfast, instead of beer.

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foobarbazqux
> So while you may feel that coffee is giving you more energy, it’s simply
> telling your body that your energy reserves are good to go even after
> they’re long gone.

I'm not an expert by any means, but this isn't quite what I learned in my
undergraduate course on metabolic biochemistry. Caffeine simply encourages you
to burn more energy by the mechanisms outlined by the author. However, you
cannot burn energy reserves after they are gone. Where would the energy come
from? You have carbohydrate reserves and you have fat reserves. Carbohydrates
will go first, and once depleted caffeine will cause you to burn more fat than
you normally would. The effect is somewhere around 10% for average consumption
levels. When you have burned all of the usable carbohydrates and fat in your
body, you start burning protein. That is called ketogenesis. It results in
muscle breakdown, and the ketones produced are one of the reasons crack
addicts smell kind of funny. Caffeine will not induce ketogenesis unless you
are drinking way too much and not eating nearly enough. Note that there aren't
super sharp transitions from carbs to fat and from fat to protein.

~~~
legitsource
Ketosis is an alternative method of using fats for energy in the absence of
normal process using glucose. The presence of ketones on your breath makes a
"fruity" smell that can range from minor to fairly unpleasant. It may make
your mouth taste "metallic".

When your body is breaking down protein for energy, you will smell like
ammonia, which is significantly different smelling than ketones like acetone.

~~~
foobarbazqux
Okay, so ketosis (ketogenesis?) is one step before breaking down proteins,
i.e. first you smell like ketones, then you smell like ammonia?

~~~
legitsource
Basically, you don't have to enter ketosis on the way to burning proteins for
energy.

If you stop eating entirely, you will enter ketosis and also be breaking down
some protein for energy as soon as your blood glucose and your liver glycogen
is depleted (your brain still needs about 20 grams of glucose a day even in
ketosis, so gluconeogenesis will occur turning protein into glucose). You
probably won't even smell the ammonia at this rate, since it's pretty low.

After being in ketosis for a while (a few weeks) your body gets better at
producing ketones on demand instead of just supplying them all the time and
the acetone smell decreases substantially, but you still shouldn't be breaking
down protein unless you are low body fat and not eating enough fat for the
calories you need.

I never smell like ammonia unless I'm working out really hard and in ketosis.

If you aren't lazy, you can work hard enough to smell like ammonia no matter
what you eat if you are pushing yourself really hard in an anaerobic exercise
set.

~~~
foobarbazqux
Wow, that was an awesome explanation. Thanks.

~~~
legitsource
Not a problem at all.

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NicoJuicy
Probably beer.

Because when i write code, i always want to extend code to cover all case
scenario's... in the best architecture (DDD-design). I want it to be perfect
and bla bla bla, ...

I think i can extend to infinity trying to cover all possible situations...

When i'm coding on beer, i just don't care and code and ship it...

So beer makes me more productive...

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alariccole
There's the quote "Write drunk, edit sober" that writers are fond of using. I
wrote about this myself not two weeks ago, believing them to be related:
<https://medium.com/editors-picks/f79b411687b9>. Sometimes we have to relax
ourselves to let creativity flow, whether that be writing or coding.

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doug4hn
I've had some creative sessions w/ moderate Yerba mate consumption and haven't
experienced the health issues some say it has.

~~~
hazov
At least for me if I drink too much my heartbeat accelerates, so I have no
reason to drink a lot.

I love Erva Mate (I'm Brazilian, it's how we say "Yerba Mate" in Portuguese)
and try to drink some every morning. I love a beer as well.

Out of curiosity, are you from South America?

~~~
npsimons
The one time I've gotten my heart rate to 192, I had about two liters of Mate
in the in the morning, then ran up our local training hill (approx. 1200ft
elevation gain) in about 30 minutes. No problems with arrhythmia, though.

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semerda
Coffee definitely! esp the first few minutes after consuming it when the
altered state (caffeine high) kicks in. My belief is that your mind needs a
state change to create a moment of insight/s. Like Einstein said, “We can not
solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them”.

Not sure if I would classify a “eureka moment” as creativity. Eureka moments
are bursts of solving/finding answers to something. I agree that they happen
during relaxed states (non beta waves). Creativity is something that feels
like it is more associated to a state of flow achieved when one is in the
moment.

The best “eureka moments” I've had were always in an isolation tank when
floating like a cork all relaxed in 1/3 epsom salt. Such a powerful yet under
used tool!

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popee
Question. How cat focus help in creativity? If you want to make new
connections in brain -> creativity -> isn't that opposite of focusing? Hmmm,

Sorry on bad english, 4 beers + not primary language :-)

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sp332
Looks like the Ballmer peak was about 2x too high. <https://xkcd.com/323/>
Unless... the Microsoft programmers already had a tolerance to alcohol? :)

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jpreiland
What about us water-only folk? Do we miss out on the super powers?

~~~
gee_totes
Go water! I find it helps me stay focused and energized over the long haul. My
drinking routine is based on the assumption[0] that thinking burns as much
energy as physical work, and thus I need to stay hydrated.

[0] Related comic: <http://wondermark.com/930/>

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icebraining
As an espresso drinker, I found the "little 14-ounce mug" funny. That said, I
don't really feel their effects, even if I take an extra shot. Sleeping
definitively works, though.

~~~
tonylemesmer
Espresso

~~~
icebraining
Thanks, fixed.

------
twasfm
LSD for creativity mixed amphetamine salts for productivity

~~~
krapp
With what programming language does that even work?

~~~
emidln
All of them. Which can you read at the end? Maybe your Python. Definitely not
my Common Lisp or C.

------
Uhhrrr
TFA has coffee as being bad for creative thought and good for doing stupid
things fast. I would bet that the various effects are bi- or n-modal. For me,
it's GREAT for creative thought and pretty bad when it comes time to get
things done, since I don't focus as well. It took me at least a decade to
realize I was being less productive because I was enjoying the amped-up
feeling from the caffeine.

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edw519
For sprints, either. For marathons, neither.

Knowing which is which is half the battle.

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dageshi
Sipping away on rum + energy drink as we speak. Alcahol + caffeine + sugar all
in one small glass for sipping. For me it's a kind of magic combination that
really helps me focus although that's not necessarily the same thing as
creativity I suppose.

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RossP
Surely a coffee-infused stout can provide the best of both worlds?

That said, unless it's a side project that isn't in real use I don't tend to
work after drinking alcohol, but it's a rare day that I don't work "under the
influence" of espresso.

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mosqutip
The author should credit The Oatmeal for that awesome caffeine picture.

~~~
sp332
The word "illustration" in the sentence above it does link to the The Oatmeal,
but you're right it should probably be clearer.

~~~
mosqutip
Yep, just noticed. I clicked on that link originally, but it didn't load for
some reason.

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wturner
I would like to see an article of this nature written about Kava Kava

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koshak
Green gunpowder FTW!

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ecuzzillo
It wants me to log in with Twitter. Why?

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beachstartup
wait

this bacterial issue in the water can't be fixed by boiling your water before
you make coffee???

~~~
sliverstorm
Coffee is usually brewed a little below boiling, and in any case blasting
water to 212°F and then serving it doesn't always kill all the bacteria- you
need to boil it for a couple minutes. I forget how long though.

~~~
dagw
If bacteria are a problem where you libe you can simply boil your water for a
few minutes, take it off the heat for it to cool down to the temp you want,
and then use it to brew coffee.

~~~
sliverstorm
Right, but if the office has a coffeemaker and no stove, you can't do that.

~~~
tmarthal
You can get an LED bacteria pen. Those will kill most of the bacteria in the
water before using it to make coffee.

Something like this: [http://www.amazon.com/SteriPEN-Adventurer-Opti-Handheld-
Puri...](http://www.amazon.com/SteriPEN-Adventurer-Opti-Handheld-
Purifier/dp/B003A1MURC)

~~~
sliverstorm
Those aren't LED. It's an unshielded UV lamp.

------
whiddershins
coffee.

