Ask HN: What would you do with $5k/mo basic income for rest of life? - throw99887
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Cshelton
If assuming that everyone was also receiving $5k/mo "UBI"...

Nothing different, because the cost of everything I buy will go up by a total
of $5k/mo. Hence why UBI is flawed. My total purchasing power will be
unchanged.

Edit: Maybe I missed it but... I can't find this post anywhere on the
HackerNews pages anymore. That's rather funny. It was quickly pointed out how
flawed a theory UBI is by multiple commenters and then _poof_. Funny...

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ronilan
It will most likely be worse as inflation will hit widely consumed products
(basics) harder than least consumed ones. Quantitive easing 2.0.

Anyone said housing?

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eesmith
Including all the cheap housing available in the small towns which have lost
population because people are leaving for the big cities for jobs?

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SilasX
Pay it all to keep up with rent increases that resulted from everyone having
$5000/month.

(When you call it a "basic income", that suggests everyone is getting it;
"free money" would be more appropriate if you didn't mean that.)

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throw99887
Thanks for clarification. It's "hard-earned money"

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briga
Quit my job. Travel the world.

Although one thing that's always bothered me about the UBI idea is that if
everyone else is getting this basic income, wouldn't it effectively make that
5k worthless? Perhaps someone with a greater understanding of economics could
enlighten me?

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encoderer
It is not necessarily inflationary, just redistributive

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andai
Where does the money come from in the most common UBI scenarios? Is it the
richest people subsidising the entire rest of the world?

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djrobstep
It would come from the entire rest of the world subsidising the rich slightly
less.

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andai
Could you elaborate?

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martygwilliams
I'd probably take six months and do nothing at all, except for maybe work on
the house. Then I'd start picking up every online college degree that tickled
my fancy. At some point I'd probably find some places to volunteer and help
out the community. Also, maybe I'd have time to get around to music and art...
probably not, but maybe.

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db48x
Try to hedge against the inevitable inflation, as suddenly there is more money
chasing the same amount of goods and services.

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inputcoffee
For those worried about the inflation risk: it depends on how the money is
generated.

Theoretically, if it is created by, for instance, taxation (redistribution
over people) or bonds (which is redistribution over time), you shouldn't risk
too much overall inflation.

It will, however, change which goods increase in price. I suspect restaurants
will become more expensive and yachts will be cheaper if it happened by
taxation.

Having said that, inflation itself seems to be blind to the theory and does
whatever it feels like.

For the purposes of this exercise, let's suppose I get $5k/mo and others
don't. I think it depends on when I got it.

In my 20s -> Travel and grad school

In my 30s -> Supplementing my meager income to enjoy myself

In my 40s -> Investment

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andai
Wouldn't it be better to start investing as early as possible? I'm in my early
20s and have been thinking that if I got a time machine the first thing I'd do
is go back ten years and tell myself to get a job.

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linsomniac
Agreed. In my early 20s I was tempted to take my "signature loan" account of
$10K and put it into investments, as a sort of enforced savings, and pay that
off. In some ways, that's stupid, but 20+ years on, I wish I had done that.

I mean, not as much as I wish I had held onto those bitcoins I sold for $15,
but still... :-)

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partisan
I have about 7 different business ideas in my queue. I would pick the first,
related to increase charitable giving, and would commit myself to that.

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throw99887
That's my plan too (charitable open source software). But, something else
besides just work? I worked so hard past 6 years I almost don't know how to
find other stuff to do.

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partisan
I can relate. I've thrown myself into work and family in the past 4 years.
It's been a while since I read a book or drew a picture. I was browsing around
B&N today thinking I should get back to doing that.

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seorphates
Is it taxed?

Do we have healthcare?

Will a spouse have the same benefit?

Rent takes a fifth of that net, minimum, and you guys are talking about
retiring, travel, lounging around and lives dedicated to charity?

It's not 5k a week. Am I missing something?

Given what I see here, a stinkbutt stance of a question, I'd say the greatest
impact to myself would be some stress reduction, slightly relaxed job
requirements and a helluva better outlook for a tired, aging body.

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stuffaandthings
Start investing $5k/mo while keeping my day job.

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ajross
Probably quit my job and spend time pontificating on how someone managed to
provide a BMI at a level which is above the US median household income.

Sorry, that number just doesn't work, even granting a government willing to do
redistribution on that level, you're looking at an outflow that is something
like 3x current total government tax revenue.

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cellularmitosis
Spend the rest of my life writing FOSS all day

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dopamean
Move to Jamaica to be closer to my family. Write code for small businesses
there who need it badly but cant afford it.

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reustle
I wouldn't be surprised if most types of UBI require you to spend most of your
time in the US. Otherwise they be pouring free cash into other economies.

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pan69
I can't remember where I read this, but I really liked the idea that UBI was
compared to VC funding. I.e. most startups fail, yet investors still invest in
startups because the few that succeed compensate for the ones that fail,
making investment in startups still worth while.

What I read was that UBI can be seen as a government investing in it's people.
Not everyone will be doing brilliant and innovative things, but, the person
who'd normally would get a secure job at big corp might now feel secure enough
to undertake starting something or working on an idea living in the middle of
nowhere and when successful, adding an enormous amount of value to the rest of
society.

So, to answer your question. I'd also be more than happy to live in the middle
of nowhere working on ideas and open source etc.

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arithma
Since this is talking about basic income, please allow me to digress a little
and ask a few things that have been on my mind for a while. World GDP per
capita is $1,400 Only need to make all people capable of 3.5X more productive,
and we'd all be able to live at that rate with some universal income +
universal work. Maybe the UBI idea shouldn't be decoupled from universal work.
If we truly believe humans are worth giving $5K a month, surely we can devise
a way that they can be given that no for free (without inflation, or whatnot,
just plain old more distributed production.) Should making people more
productive (distributing the means of production) be concentrated on much more
than just redistributing the already existing wealth.

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ghaff
Consider how stable it is. Save it for now. Consider whether I might move up
retirement.

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hysan
Work on the many educational and political tool ideas that I have kicking
around in my head. Then get involved in local volunteer work in those areas
(primarily teaching).

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mistermithras
If it was a viable option and not a flawed economic theory, I'd return to
school and learn more languages/arts to go with all the STEM stuff I already
know.

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ben_w
Assuming $5k USD per month _with current purchasing power_ to avoid the
concerns about rent inflation. $5k per month is what I’m expecting in my next
job, except my next job will have (hopefully German) taxes.

I’d save as much as I can to buy (another) house, write more, and start a
family.

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tomasien
I would do exactly what I'm doing now (building for profit companies and doing
non-profit work @ spreadthevote.org) except I would be much more thoughtful
between for-profit projects. I would likely work on slightly bigger problems.

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DonCullen
Start a business. Until then, it’s debt management, making ends meet, and
hopefully get enough handle on finances to be able to sufficiently save/invest
for retirement. Survival vs thriving, pretty much.

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deweller
Spend a little of it, save most of it.

I would quickly adjust to my new standard of living and continue doing
everything else the same.

$60k/year is not near enough for those of us with a family.

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cannonedhamster
Depends where you live. My wife and I lived on less than $50k. I know some
families that live on $40k. We live well above that now, but our standard of
living is drastically higher.

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jmcgough
Quit my day job, work on ideas for companies, build OSS.

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LinuxBender
Retire. Relax. Perhaps tinker and work to better the internet, after I have
recovered from being a desk jockey for quite a few decades.

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jepler
Retire.

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andai
I'm already quite comfortable living off less than $1,000, so I would split
the rest among four of my best friends.

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reustle
But won't they also get $5k/mo?

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quxbar1
Write open-source web app platforms that enforce transparent administration of
schools, prisons, and local governments.

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Overtonwindow
Absolutely nothing. Live happily ever after.

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drivingmenuts
Woodworking.

Start small with a few tools and work my way up to a shop area.

Possibly start a shared shop area with interested friends.

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thex10
Live somewhere great, have myself chauffeured everywhere, donate to some
choice people.

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alphabettsy
Go back to school full-time through Grad school and keep working on side-
projects.

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cdancette
Work part time for a NGO

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abakker
Start a business making tools and machinery for makers.

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Casseres
Volunteer full time.

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SirRhosis
Finish some novels, work on a side business perhaps.

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jshaqaw
Pay some of my rent

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justin1364
Get involved in local politics.

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blacktulip
Start going to the gym!

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andai
Why would you need basic income for that?

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drivingmenuts
Presumably, 5K would cover income lost from time spend at the gym vs time
spent working.

Also gym membership and insurance (just in case).

Plus, those t-shirts aren't going to rip themselves.

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king07828
I would consider retiring so that I could write and open source robot trading
platform that utilizes the latest advances with neural networks to analyze and
_successfully_ trade in the stock market that is simple enough for any high
school graduate to use so that UBI would no longer be needed

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djohnston
wouldn't this fail as it became ubiquitous in the market?

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king07828
If it failed, and it would not meet the criterion of _successfully_ trading.

A successful algorithm would likely need to be able to adjust based on the
amount of capital being controlled using the algorithm and the number of
parties that are using the algorithm

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djohnston
Is it a paradox then? At 100% ubiquity you couldn’t satisfy the criteria.

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king07828
Is Alpha Zero is a paradox when it plays itself, since it can never truly beat
itself?

