
Why I took on building a better way to frame any poster, print or photo - jhubball
https://medium.com/@jhubball/custom-framing-is-a-racket-61461b12278d
======
ISL
These sentences in your copy set me up to expect a framing solution that would
let me frame a poster in a nice frame for ~$40: "A handful came from Fab.com,
there was a Ray Lamontagne concert poster I picked up after a show, and
several others I had purchased on and offline. Not one had cost over $40."

I felt let down that the minimum cost for framing 24x36 prints was then $109+.

It's a nifty idea, and the custom-framing market is at least partially ready
to disrupted by a well-executed internet outfit. Good luck!

~~~
jhubball
Thanks for the feedback! Price-wise, there is almost no way a wooden frame of
that size with a framers-grade acrylic could ever get down to that size. Cost
of the wood alone is ~$0.30 per linear inch.

For me, I think it's wonderful that you can get a great print or poster for
$40. That problem has been solved. But you can tell a cheap frame from a
quality one every time.

~~~
bradleyjg
That just doesn't sit right. It is like if you had to pay significantly more
for a belt than for the pants they are holding up.

I get sticker shock every time I go to buy a nice poster, print, or art piece
at what seems like a very reasonable price and then see the cost triple or
quadruple when I add the frame and shipping.

~~~
alaskamiller
It is like having on a dapper outfit, stepping out but then your outdoor
jacket looks bad. A jacket compliments an outfit, like how a frame compliments
art.

------
primitivesuave
Reading the article gave me the impression that this was going to be cheaper
than going to a framer. I plugged in some numbers and settings for an almost
identical 36 x 24 frame I had made a couple months ago, and the price was
about the same ($200). It also seems like you can't make larger frames (beyond
36 x 24), which is where about 80% of my frame expenditures go to. I once paid
that same framer a lot to frame, deliver, and hang a 4' x 9' piece of art. If
you could make a frame and ship it to me for less, and I could use the cute
interface to do it, I'll hang it myself and not have to spend all that time
interacting with a framer.

Maybe I am subject to some sampling bias here, but _people who spend real
money on frames usually have large custom framing needs._

It also seems like shipping contributes a lot to the price, have you thought
about offering an option to deliver the frame unassembled with a lower
shipping rate? I'm sure it costs less to mail a long square tube than a flat
box.

I liked reading about how this idea captivated you - best of luck with it!

------
zorpner
Great idea! Framing is an incredible hassle for exactly the reasons you
describe. Would be cool to partner with small artists to pass out discount
codes on physical cards they could include with rolled & shipped art.

For the future -- provide exact specs on the acrylic you're using to front the
pieces (and consider offering museum glass in the future). UV exposure is
critical depending on the placement of art and, perhaps ironically,
particularly for the more inexpensive pieces people may be wanting to frame
with your service that may have been printed using materials more prone to
fading/etc.

Also, when you eventually offer additional matting colors/textures, put
together a sample pack (using the cut scraps) that can be mailed out. Mats,
particularly colored mats, look very different when actually adjacent to a
piece of artwork than viewed on a screen (much more so than most framing
material).

~~~
jhubball
thanks, zorpner! I am actually starting to work with artists already, very
similar to what you mention. Here is an example:

[https://www.levleframes.com/artists/joey-
roth/frame?levle_id...](https://www.levleframes.com/artists/joey-
roth/frame?levle_id=12)

The best part is that no technical integration is required (drop a postcard
into the shipping tube with the URL or email it with the receipt).

Thanks for the feedback on mat samples and the acrylic. Some details on the
Frames page, but I can be more specific. Museum glass is great but decent risk
of breaking in transit, hence the use of the acrylic.

------
crazygringo
As someone who framed four photos (from small to 3 feet wide) a couple years
ago -- I wound up using cheap $10-30 Blick frames and cropping my photos to
"standard sizes", and spending $200 locally on the one that simply couldn't be
cropped to a standard size.

I would definitely have been interested in online custom sizes, but with
_cheap_ materials -- plastic instead of glass, black faux wood frame. Not just
for quality, but also for weight -- a glass covering over a 3-foot photo is
crazy heavy.

There's definitely a big market of people who are post-college and want proper
frames for non-standard-sized content, but simply want them as cheap as
possible.

~~~
jhubball
You nailed the alternatives on the head: buy cheap plastic or MDF frames that
look crappy and are hard to find in the right size, or spend $$$ at the custom
frame shop for a beautiful, high-quality frame. I wanted to deliver the same
product as the custom frame shop, but in a much more convenient way and at
~half the cost. Could expand into other price point later, but right now
trying to hit that sweet spot in the middle where there is a real pain point.

------
pjbrunet
I tried your widget and I wouldn't really call that "custom" picture framing.
If I was you, I wouldn't call custom picture framing a racket. Your suppliers
won't be pleased to hear you belittle their passion. Your two examples
demonstrate no understanding of color or form. It's like you folded an Origami
crane and you're already calling Michelangelo a hack.

Here's a tip, the shape of the frame moulding can enhance the structure of the
composition. You need a good eye for composition to see something like that.
That's just one of many factors you would consider when choosing frames, mats,
fillets, etc. Your Joey Roth print there would look better with a tapered
frame. Even if you could represent a moulding in 3D, you need a professional
designer to coordinate all the desires of the customer. Custom picture framing
is a personal, intimate, complex business.

Here's my full response: [http://pjbrunet.com/custom-picture-framing-falling-
glass-raz...](http://pjbrunet.com/custom-picture-framing-falling-glass-razor-
blades-rogue-lint/)

~~~
aaronbrethorst
From your blog post:

    
    
        The cheap frame from the discount store
        has unsafe hangers and it’s not sealed
        and it’s barely held together by cheap
        staples and the thin, chipped glass
        inside is a death trap in disguise.
    

I've spend a good deal of time today reading responses from other posters on
this thread today. I think I can bucket them into three groups:

    
    
        "This is too expensive"
    

This represents the bulk of the responses: people who are used to buying cheap
discount store frame you describe. The 80% case.

    
    
        "Are you kidding? This is cheap!"
    

People like me, who represent most of the other 20%. I can appreciate the $300
and the $900 designs you reference, but I'm not willing to pay either amount.
I'm not framing an Ansel Adams or a Henri Cartier-Bresson print.

    
    
        "This doesn't stand up to my expectations"
    

As far as I can tell, only you in this thread. That's not to say that your
viewpoint is invalid. Far from it. But, instead, it fails to recognize that
there is a meaningfully large mid-market that doesn't want a $10 death-trap,
but is also unwilling to spend as much as it would cost to buy a used
Hasselblad[0] on framing a print.

Getting that personalized, one-on-one, high-end experience would be fantastic.
But it's also clearly not an experience that would work well with cutting out
the middleman. Especially when that middleman is incapable of providing the
MFA-requiring experience you eloquently described.

[0] No really, my Hasselblad 501CM, _plus_ an 80mm ƒ/2.8 Zeiss Planar lens,
_plus_ a film back cost me about $950 earlier this year. They're all in great
shape, and produce the best photographs I've gotten from any camera I've ever
owned.

~~~
pjbrunet
I don't know what your market will be, do you? Is $900 for a picture frame
expensive? Depends what we're framing, how big is it and how long will it take
to build? Are we framing a Celtics jersey with a cigar and some tickets? I
always billed six hours of labor for shadowboxes. Not many framers do big
shadowboxes. Then you're talking about cutting a custom jersey insert out of
foam, pinning the sleeves just right (two more inserts) then jig up the cigar.
This was years ago but my shadowboxes were usually in the $600-$700 range.
Obviously bigger frames cost more, especially if you get the museum glass and
spare no expense.

I'm not a camera expert but I bet your camera was made in a factory, not
designed to your exact specifications, just for you. Your camera wasn't
assembled in the US either. Nice camera though.

What you wrote about wanting an app to do this, it reminds me of my freshman
year in art school when I was so excited about programming games, computer
graphics, 3D models, the demo scene, etc. It was really difficult to get out
of my comfort zone which was all this technology I grew up with. I eventually
got into non-objective abstraction and sculpture and oil painting and realized
it was really satisfying to learn from these dead artists who had so much to
offer me. Anyway, I don't know you, maybe we're nothing alike but I hope you
talk with more picture framers and learn as much about picture framing as you
can before you become this huge company crushing artists out of business.

~~~
aaronbrethorst

        I hope you talk with more picture framers
        and learn as much about picture framing
        as you can before you become this huge
        company crushing artists out of business.
    

I'm not the OP. Levleframes.com isn't my website.

And I'm not questioning the value of paying $900 for framing _in some cases_.
But, I think it's ridiculous to assume that someone who bought a poster
reproduction of some Klimt painting would spend $900 for a custom frame.

    
    
        I'm not a camera expert but I bet your
        camera was made in a factory, not designed
        to your exact specifications, just for you.
    

This is true. And not particularly relevant. A custom camera designed just for
me wouldn't be able to take advantage of the rich ecosystem of V series
lenses, backs, and accessories that I can use. Incidentally, every film camera
is slightly different, which is why tutorials like this exist:
[http://stephengrote.com/teaching/courses/files/storage/Zone%...](http://stephengrote.com/teaching/courses/files/storage/Zone%20System.pdf)

    
    
        Your camera wasn't assembled in the US
        either. Nice camera though.
    

How is this relevant?

    
    
        Anyway, I don't know you, maybe we're nothing
        alike but I hope you talk with more picture
        framers and learn as much about picture
        framing as you can before you become this
        huge company crushing artists out of business.
    

Again: this isn't my website. And a framer charging $900 will either be able
to differentiate their services from an $80 frame ordered off the Internet and
a $20 frame bought at Ikea, and their business will do fine, or they won't.

~~~
pjbrunet
Sorry, I assumed you were the OP because you were talking about the market,
etc. So I was writing in Levleframes general direction ;-) I agree, he could
succeed with the right marketing, especially with a lot of tutorials for the
DIY market.

As far as a Klimt poster, it's surprising what people spend to frame posters.
Ordering online is nothing new and tons of people order posters online, but
people don't frame online because it's time-consuming work that takes practice
and a lot can go wrong. You would be surprised how many people have a lot of
difficulty using a ruler! Even professional framers. Which leads to returns &
recuts for this website. Did the customer drop the frame, did the moulding
warp from humidity? How do you know?

If you brought me a poster and you're not telling me you're on a budget, I'd
work with you to choose frames for you and the art and depending on your level
of involvement, I'd pick colors that we both agree look awesome. Often cost is
the last thing discussed. Some stores, maybe you're spending more time to dial
back a design to save money. It's like selling anything, what seems like a lot
to me is affordable to somebody else. There are ways to save money but that's
a long tangent.

Cost mostly depends on the scale, the quality of glass and your taste. Some
frames are just expensive because of the labor involved, the country it's
from, etc. You can also go crazy with fabric mats, stacking fillets,
raising/floating elements and on and on. For prints 20" wide (just reading
your website) that's going to be more affordable because you're using smaller
sheets of glass and standard mats. But maybe with medium format film, those
prints could be huge. Larger scale means larger glass, oversize 60" mats,
shipping gets more expensive, everything is more difficult and cost goes up
exponentially.

There's no typical scenario, that's why custom framing is so interesting. A
microchip manufacturer could spend the same framing chip designs as the cigar
bar framing ads for urinals.

------
drone
To the OP, have you seen Pictureframes.com? I ask, because if you spend a few
minutes here:

[http://www.pictureframes.com/personal-frame-shop/set-
size](http://www.pictureframes.com/personal-frame-shop/set-size)

... you can quote a custom frame for a 20x16" print, with no mat, a black wood
7/8" frame, and "standard glazing" (which by that, I presume you mean acrylic)
for $61.55.

If the effort is just to be inexpensive, I think long-time online custom
retailers like pictureframes, and related (whom I've been buying my frames and
mats from for years) may be able to beat you there. Certainly, if I switch to
a metal frame, the price starts dropping.

Now, if you're focusing on a better user experience, that could certainly use
some improving with existing sites, but I don't know that you're really
disrupting the price of online custom frames?

~~~
cptskippy
I was excited when I saw the OP's post but completely crestfallen when I
quoted a frame.

For me at least, price is the primary consideration by a large margin followed
distantly by ease of purchase. The user experience of designing the frame
doesn't really even come into the equation.

------
aaronbrethorst
This looks fantastic, but I have one request: I do all of my own photo
matting, and would love to have a 'power user' interface that would let me
simply specify the size of the custom frame that I need.

Right now, it's not obvious to me how I can simply say: "I need a frame that
has a 18x18" opening," or whatever.

Let me do this and I will happily spend $200 on your website today, and will
probably keep doing that every month or two in perpetuity.

~~~
NSAID
> "I need a frame that has a 18x18" opening,"

That's just the poster size that you enter in, right?

[https://www.levleframes.com/frames/new?height=12.0&width=12....](https://www.levleframes.com/frames/new?height=12.0&width=12.0)

I punched in 12"x12" and it's showing me various frame/matte combinations that
result in a 12"x12" opening.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
No, punching in 12x12 gives you a 13x13" frame:

    
    
        Customizing a frame to fit a 12.0" x 12.0" print
    
        13 x 13 x 0.75" Black Maple frame with No mat
        and Standard glaze. $43.50
    

I'm saying that my matted print is 12x12 (or whatever), and I don't want to
futz with making the numbers come out right.

~~~
NSAID
I would expect 13x13x0.75" to be the exterior dimensions of the wood, given
that 3 dimensions are listed.

Maybe I just misunderstand how frames are described and sold, but I would
fully expect to receive a frame with a 12x12" opening ("to fit a 12.0" x 12.0"
print") if I bought that frame, and would feel misled if I ended up with a
13x13" opening. Again, maybe that's just how frames are sold, but if that's
the case perhaps the site could explain that better.

~~~
aaronbrethorst
> if that's the case perhaps the site could explain that better.

The ambiguity is a concern for me. Also, I was a _little_ wrong on the $200
figure earlier. The number is actually $150 for two matted prints of mine that
I have sitting at home waiting for me to frame them.

------
Yen
Trying out the site, I'm really liking the frame editor, UI-wise. Particularly

* actually shows the expected price, in-line, without having to go to a new page. * shows both the low-detail, big-picture information (a picture of the actual frame), and the high-detail information (exact specs of the frame) * can quickly switch between options, and the display updates

This combination of features lets me quickly iterate through options, and
evaluate tradeoffs (does this look better with no matting or 1" matting? The
thicker frame width looks nice, but it bumps the price up. How much do I value
that aspect?)

Feature wishlist for the future - the ability to handle multiple items in a
frame, for a series of photos/triptych/etc.

~~~
jhubball
I got triptychs on the roadmap - huge fan of how those look!

------
delgaudm
When I needed to change dimensions, I started over. The first step did show
0/8 but the fractions of the inch were present on the second step.

Edit: Now that I've been through the process, I also found that your pricing
was $14USD _more_ for the same materials and dimensions than the first site
that came up when I searched "online framing" ($46 vs $32). Its not clear from
your site how you differentiate on that markup.

~~~
jhubball
thanks for taking a look, I will look into the fractions change.

I'm guessing that the competitor was not using materials that were as quality
or archival. I'm also trying to differentiate on the UI/UX. Most of the sites
I've tried (and I've tried a lot) take dozens of steps to order the frame and
have way too many options.

~~~
altcognito
You will make money, but you won't be "disruptive"

------
donall
This has great potential. I plugged in some random numbers and the basic
offering seemed to cost around $100, though, which is still significantly more
than the cost of a cheap poster. Can you talk a little about the price
breakdown here? Or perhaps that would reveal the secret sauce?

~~~
jhubball
Thanks donall! Yes, these are not cheap frames or Ikea offerings. They are
what you would get from a high-end custom frame shop. I'm able to bring the
prices down by going direct, removing the need to handle the artwork (you do
that part, but it's not hard) and eliminating the retail overhead.

~~~
solipsism
Maybe I'm cheap. I want cheap frames and Ikea-like offerings, but I want
custom sizes and combinations, and I want it for like $20. It seems ludicrous
to me to spend $5 on a cheap thing but $100 if I need it custom-sized.

I fully acknowledge I may be asking too much. Just saying that if you can hit
that price point I will probably become a customer. No idea if I'm unique.

~~~
jkaunisv1
I'm definitely the same use case as you. I feel like there will be a lot of
people who feel similarly. Post-college but still frugal is how I think of
myself.

Doesn't sound like what OP is going for right now - seems like he would have
better margins to start out on the high end. I don't have experiential data
but I've read in many places that low-price products can have more difficult
consumers because they expect so much for $20.

------
earlyriser
What I'd like is to be able to enter the dimensions of my print, let's say
10x10in and no more options: a kind of ikea product, -4 sides of the frame,
the sides are made of wood alone, that I can assemble like legos, the cheapest
wood with a natural feeling -matting (calculated on the size of print)

You could decrease production costs because you won't be making frames by
order, just having a bunch of "sides" with different dimensions.

If you can deliver this under $20 it would be perfect for me.

------
nayton
This is becoming a very competitive space recently, We launched
[http://www.mountary.com](http://www.mountary.com) in March (yes I am a
founder) to address the same problem and have been shipping orders across the
US for that amount of time. A lot of people we have dealt with wouldn't know
where to start when looking to frame a piece. We are making it super easy.

------
anigbrowl
Good concept, needs work.

Hated the step-by-step user interface, I like a form I can fill out and click
one button, not least so I can view all options at once. The inches + '0/8'
widget was extremely confusing and unintuitive. Simple text box and labels
would have been fine or text box + dropdown. Annoyed not to have a metric
option.

Prices are OK for custom woodwork, but I think you need to play up the 'high
quality' angle more on the landing page, because otherwise many people are
going to be expecting cheapish frames and get sticker shock. I like nice
frames, but more and more I print on canvas with a built-in frame or other
'frameless' options because I have no wish to spend hundreds of dollars on
frames. I'm not sure I agree about the mid-price pain point - but I do think
your prices are competitive and a slight adjustment to your positioning is all
that's needed.

------
demoran
Just tried a random size (24x36, + 3 inch matting, other things default) and
tried to match it in a German manufacturers webshop.

Prices: 180 $ (+ sales tax depending on state, correct?) vs 180 € (= 240 $,
includes 19 % tax)

Options: Very similar, german site offered more detailed options for materials
(neutral, since to much can be to much) and also for different mounting
methods and artwork thicknesses (can be relevant depending on artwork)

I feel like you need to work on presenting why I should go with you as someone
new to the market at not-that-much-better prices than an established, well-
regarded company which gives me more options and information about their
product. Maybe your materials or craftmanship are better, but I have no real
indication that this is the case, or the difference is on a level a might care
about. Right now I have you calling your competition criminals and then
charging more or less the same.

------
DanielBMarkham
Related sidebar: last week I was on holiday and took some nice landscape
photographs. They were nice enough that I had a few people on my social
networks ask if I could frame them.

Being a computer nerd and not a professional photographer, I was at a bit of a
loss. I ended up googling for professional print services online and ordering
some sample prints.

Here's the thing: contrary to this article, they offered backing. Not sure
about the rest of it. I included a couple of oddball-sized prints just to see
how they did.

Why couldn't they offer frames? Is there some technical reason this isn't
already done? I confess to quickly scanning the second-half of the article,
but is there some barrier to entry that I'm not aware of?

~~~
stan_rogers
Well, here's the thing: "backing" is considered antithetical to proper
framing, for the most part. That may be less of a concern with digital prints
(no matter the medium), since those prints can easily be recreated as
necessary, but full-surface mounting to a rigid substrate is not a reversible
process; once it's done, it's done. And while that may be good enough for most
people most of the time (for decorative applications or commercial display)
it's not something that anyone who is selling into the "fine art" world would
touch with a ten-foot (or three-metre) pole. Conservationally-sound framing
(with reversible hinges, etc.) is fiddly, time-consuming stuff and requires a
lot of horizontal storage space for drying, etc., between stages. And you'd
have to deal with expensive and easy-to-break museum glass if you offer glossy
prints. Since the market is largely dry-mount _or_ frame, and framing is the
fiddly, expensive and (relatively) low-margin part of the trade, that's the
easier option to drop.

~~~
DanielBMarkham
There's a fascinating amount of detail here that the home/prosumer
photographer is unaware of. There's also an impressive amount of manual work.
I'm not sure, but that kind of sounds like a startup opportunity to me.

------
conductr
I just dropped a couple $k on framing. So I love this idea And agree it's
crazy over priced. . Although I do wish I could do more customizations. Like
matte color. The matte with the color stripe. Stuff like that , hope you get
there

------
vinceguidry
It's rapidly becoming a pet peeve of mine whenever someone calls an
unexpectedly hard domain and the appropriately high-priced businesses that
grew around servicing problems in that domain a "racket". It's just plain
intellectual laziness.

My mom recently finished a framing seminar that cost her a lot of money to go
to, invested a ton in equipment, and talked my ear off for two hours about why
custom framing costs so much and why there's only a handful of framers in any
area, and it gave me the impression that this isn't a market that's going to
be disrupted any time soon.

~~~
dj-wonk
It is hard for people to understand why custom framing costs so much. Can you
explain _why_ it is often so expensive?

~~~
jhubball
So it's traditionally been a very high-touch service with the need for retail
overhead. Most frame shops carry way too many supplies/options, and outsource
a portion of the work (which accounts for the delay). They are also
geographically limited in terms of the business they can do, and get most of
it on the weekends when people have time to stop by. So there's a lot of
margin in the price above the cost of the components. Having said that, custom
framers can do amazing things, and the word "racket" was used mainly for the
headlines. The fit for Levle is creating a super high-quality and great
looking frame for that $20-$60 print or poster that doesn't need the expertise
of a master framer.

------
analog31
This is a problem that I've experienced myself. I came up with a practical
frame recipe for me and my ol' table saw, but it isn't for everybody. And it
never occurred to me that it could be the basis of an Internet business. So,
hats off to you, and I hope it's successful.

I wonder if polystyrene is cheaper than acrylic. I don't know its UV
protection properties.

I didn't look too closely at your site: Can people upload a picture of their
artwork to display in your frame design UI?

------
williamsharkey
Challenge - Upload a photo of the print, see it in frame.

Extra credit - Take some photos of your frames in natural room settings.
Inside the frame, place a color calibration sheet. Find the transformation of
the color calibration sheet (EG - how the room affects color, glare, and
shadows), and then apply it to the user-uploaded images. Perhaps this could
sell the difference between normal and anti glare.

------
noir_lord
Have you considered letting the customer upload an image of their artwork so
they can get an idea of what it will look like even better?.

Love the UX btw.

~~~
jhubball
yes, working on it, and right now can do it manually if someone emails the
site or uses the chat box. very nice and richer experience when you have the
image (e.g. - [https://www.levleframes.com/artists/joey-
roth/frame?levle_id...](https://www.levleframes.com/artists/joey-
roth/frame?levle_id=12))

~~~
noir_lord
Yeah that is pretty much what I was thinking.

Also might be cool to have a variety of stock images of different types for
those who don't have the image but can try it with something similar :).

------
stevelosh
Will these frames work with mounted photo prints like styrene or masonite
mounted prints from [https://www.whcc.com/products/prints/photographic-
prints#det...](https://www.whcc.com/products/prints/photographic-
prints#details)? All I can find in the FAQ is "Artwork should be paper-based".

~~~
jhubball
Haven't seen that yet but we can probably accomodate -- would just need you to
email/chat and specify what you are framing.

------
ultimatedelman
Your post made me immediately go measure a print I have hanging on my wall by
binder clips because I got excited to finally put that print in a frame for a
reasonable price...

...and was immediately let down when the price was pretty much just as
expensive as a regular framer. Womp.

------
jmuguy
I prefer to get a standard size from IKEA and then a custom mat from
www.americanframe.com

------
strict9
Clicking on the upper left logo (I was trying to return home) opens a new
browser tab--not cool at all.

Other than that and a few other trivial issues, the site looks great. Can't
wait to try it out.

------
joshfinnie
Thank you for this... what great execution to an issue you wanted to solve!

One question, where do you source your "best bet" suggestions from?

~~~
jhubball
So framing is mostly subjective, but there a fair amount of science and best
practice can be applied. Based on the size of the artwork, there are some
"golden ratios" around how thick the mat and the frame should be. The Best Bet
button employs a simple algorithm that will give you the recommended
configuration. More room to optimize this, but main goal was to have one
button that would get you to something good looking if you are not an
experienced framer.

~~~
Theodores
I have an upsell for you to consider. However, a small word of caution
regarding artists - they are like herding cats and as the legendary Paul
Graham discovered, quite hard to base a start up around! However...

The upsell is for the artist's market. They need to get their pride and joy
off to galleries and shows. So even if they are driving the stuff to the
gallery themselves, it still needs to be packed and made transportable.

The solution - 'art bags'. These are tailored to the frame with a few inches
to spare and are made of that bubble-wrap that has mylar film backing in it -
heat welded together, rip-proof and good for shifting framed artwork around
without it getting damaged. A simple flap - add velcro if you must - closes
the bag. Prominent on the front is an enclosure to add a picture of the
picture with the expected fragile notice, artist's name, name of the piece,
phone number etc.

Obviously such bags can be used for shipping the frames so you can sell on
your packaging :-)

There is an un-developed market for this in the UK, as in a cottage industry.
As a standalone business it is a hard sell, however, as part of a framing
business it could work out quite nicely. Plus the start up costs for the
materials and welding device are not great. Trade building supplies places
sell the mylar film bubble wrap stuff so it is not hard to get.

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bking
when entering dimensions the warning box for it being too high or too low will
not close. I can't figure out how to do it?

I am using Chrome.

Possibly check for if the cursor is in the box as well as if the value is
outside of the range. If the range changes or goes back to 0 and the cursor is
not in the text field, have the warning go away?

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CarVac
I was hoping to be able to frame a 51" wide panorama I have...but I was
disappointed.

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jastr
This is a great problem, that you simplified a lot, but it's still expensive!

~~~
aaronbrethorst
No, it's really not. It's about 50% more than you'd pay for a shitty, cheap
frame, and half the cost of a custom frame.

The OP may not have found product-market fit yet (I'd argue this should be
targeted squarely at the pro and semi-pro markets, instead of consumers), but
the product itself looks fantastic and the pricing is terrific.

~~~
jkaunisv1
It may be cheaper than similar offerings, but it is still expensive. The thing
that jumped out at me from his writeup is the initial problem he was trying to
solve - framing a piece of art without paying 10x the price of the art or
more. It doesn't _feel_ like he accomplished that, even if he technically did
by bringing it down to 3 or 5x.

My inner consumer doesn't want to pay more for a frame than I did for what's
going in the frame. It makes me angry. It feels wrong. That's the benchmark
I'm evaluating against.

There will definitely be a big difference in desires and perception between
the pro/semi-pro and consumer markets. What makes a shitty frame to you anyway
(this is an earnest question)? I've never had a wooden frame disappoint me.

Personally I'd rather have the cheapest possible wooden frames that don't fall
apart so that I can frame as much of the art I have lying around. To me a
frame should be a cheap purchase that gets out of the way of the art it's
highlighting.

~~~
aaronbrethorst

        It may be cheaper than similar offerings,
        but it is still expensive.
    

Fair point. I'm framing hand-made photographs (i.e. made in a wet darkroom)
with a retail cost measured in the hundreds of dollars, not posters or prints
purchased from art.com. It's totally reasonable that you wouldn't want to pay
more for the frame than what's in it.

    
    
        a shitty frame
    

Chipboard, particle board. That sort of thing.

~~~
jkaunisv1
Makes sense. Most of my art is $20-40 prints bought to support artists at
conventions and a simple pine frame would do the trick. Eventually I'll just
cut my own.

I'm glad to see OP is targeting the higher end market with the possibility of
expanding to the low-end later. It's not what I'm after, but it clearly has
value and at least he's not trying to do it all.

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DanielStraight
Just a note: On your website, numpad keystrokes are rejected as not numbers.

Win7, FF32

~~~
avidal
Same on OSX, Chrome.

~~~
alsocasey
And Windows 8, Chrome.

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pavel_lishin
I'm still vaguely annoyed at what the term "hustler" has come to mean. I still
associate it with the same definition as "charlatan."

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kuni-toko-tachi
Very glad to see this. The profit margins for framing were ripe to be
targeted. Would like to see similar services for lampshades and curtains, both
of which have unwarranted high markup.

~~~
jhubball
Exactly. The two products you mention are similar also in the fact that a
traditional e-commerce paradigm (thumbnails and drop downs) don't quite map to
the way you want to preview and select them. So much room for Levle to grow
and become more intuitive/helpful to getting the right frame for your art up
on the wall.

