
Volkswagen's U.S. head: individuals engineered emissions cheating - m_haggar
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/08/volkswagen-emissions-congress-update-1-p-idUSL1N1281B720151008
======
kimdouglasmason
Nope, definitely systemic within the company. The engine is a system that must
meet certain requirements. The standard way of meeting those requirements is
to have a urea injection system. That's what the competitors in the US do;
it's also what Subaru, for example, don't do, and they don't sell into the US
market.

In order to pull off this little 2-person hack that Horn alleges, those couple
of software engineers would have to have a major say over the entire engine
design. I call bullshit. This little hack ONLY makes sense in the absence of
other major engine components.

The company culture is clearly absolutely rotten and their execs are liars.
Employee morale, especially in engineering, must be through the floor.

~~~
rconti
Actually, the Passat has urea injection and is implicated as well -- though it
didn't exceed emissions by as much as cars without aftertreatment.

And the "couple of engineers" was in reference to the head of engineering and
another guy. It wasn't implicating rogue low-level engineers.

[http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-the-real-cause-of-
the...](http://www.businessinsider.com/this-is-the-real-cause-of-the-vw-
cheating-scandal-2015-10?op=1)

~~~
andor
The current scandal is only about the "EA189" engine family with NOx traps for
exhaust treatment. The new "EA288" engine family with urea injection was
designed from scratch, and, I hope, doesn't need cheating software.

Edit: the EA288 is/was -- at least in Europe -- also sold with NOx trap, but
VW still claims it's free from cheating software.

~~~
caskance
Considering all we've learned in this saga about the industry in general and
Volkswagen in particular, I would say it's more than likely that it had
cheating software anyway.

~~~
rconti
I think this is part of the problem. The EA189 without AdBlue needed the
cheating software. The Passats with AdBlue also had the EA189 and likely could
have been tuned to work without the cheating software, but likely have it
anyway.

It's a bit of a shame that EA288 cars are stacking up at dealers nationwide
and will apparently never be certified for sale (VW said they would not ask
for certification), even though they almost certainly don't need the cheat.
(Although it's possible that it's still present, which is of course still
illegal, need it or not).

------
taylodl
"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason,"
\- I'm not buying it. What would be their motive compared say to VW's motive?
VW has a heck of a lot more motive for falsifying emissions than do "a couple
of software engineers." Even if you were to argue the engineers were somehow
fearful for their jobs that's still VW's problem because they're the ones who
created that work environment instilling that fear.

I really expected VW to do better in handling this. Some business analysts are
saying VW may be out of business within five years time. Based off this
testimony I say good riddance.

~~~
somebodyother
Also, it implies a couple of engineers could slip through arbitrary code to be
executed under selective conditions. That's terrifying.

~~~
theli0nheart
And, supposing this is true, would you actually be surprised by this? This is
a car company, not a CI and code-review obsessed software company in Silicon
Valley.

~~~
mrighele
I found products made by car companies to be in general more reliable than
those made by software companies (either in Silicon Valley or not). I trust my
life to my car (software included) every day. I wouldn't do that with any
software of my smartphone, not even the OS.

~~~
Laaw
Doesn't it blow your mind that there are no "standards of engineering" or
whatever for software? There's no licensure body for software engineers who
build software running your car, and therefore no accountability on a personal
level.

When an engineer builds a bridge, she has to personally sign off on the
bridge, saying it's safe, and is risking not only her professional career, but
I think she can also be jailed and held criminally liable if the bridge kills
people due to negligence.

It blows my mind, at least, that no such thing exists for software.

~~~
dogma1138
Does any one really thinks that true?

[http://www.ldra.com/en/software-quality-test-
tools/group/by-...](http://www.ldra.com/en/software-quality-test-
tools/group/by-industry-standard/automotive-iso-26262-misra)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Industry_Software_Reliab...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Industry_Software_Reliability_Association)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_26262)

~~~
Laaw
None of those are what I described, though.

~~~
dogma1138
> Doesn't it blow your mind that there are no "standards of engineering" or
> whatever for software?

ISO, IEC, etc.

> There's no licensure body for software engineers who build software running
> your car, and therefore no accountability on a personal level.

MISRA, SCSC, etc.

~~~
Laaw
Combine my individual sentences, as I did, and try again.

------
lordnacho
It's an utterly brazen lie to say the company didn't know about this.

Anyone who's ever built anything as part of a team - whether the Linux kernel,
a space shuttle, or a Lego set - can tell you design decisions like this
cannot be secreted into the final product.

So let's say a software guy decides to make this fix. How do you do that?

\- You'll have a version control system, won't you? At the very least someone
will see it. There's some interesting if statements referencing the speed of
the rear wheels, which you can explain at code review.

\- How do you test it? I doubt your normal office happens to contain the
entire running setup of a diesel engine, with nobody around to notice, and
nobody needed to tell you about the details. Because you know, an engine test
rig wouldn't have details, right? You just turn it on yourself, spin the car
up to speed and debug, right? And I'm sure there's nothing complicated about
gas measurement, even though it tends not to be a part of CS courses.

\- What do you tell the cluelessly naive good guy engineer about his results?
Would he really only test the car under test conditions? Does any engineer
with even the slightest grain of curiosity test only the one mode that he's
supposed to?

~~~
branchless
I guess they are worried about significant legal action against the top-brass
and are throwing off some chaff. Will the legal system go after the little guy
again or land the big fish?

~~~
lordnacho
Well it's cases like this that cause people to win/lose respect for the
system.

If they throw some engineer under the bus, I don't want to live on this planet
anymore.

------
droithomme
How is Volkswagen's US head, who lives and works in the US, able to issue
proclamations with such certainty about the non-existence of private
conversations and directions taking place among the engineering staff and
management in Germany, where he spends almost no time?

It is as if a US diplomat stationed in New Zealand used his authority to
declare that Bush had never authorized any torture, and it was rogue
individual interrogators who did it. How would he know given he was on the
other side of the world when the conversations would have taken place.

~~~
bpodgursky
I would assume he is speaking on behalf of Volkswagen, not testifying as an
individual on his own experiences. Volkswagen's current story is that it was a
couple rogue engineers, so he is conveying that. Congress isn't going to get
the CEO in to testify, so it's reasonable to assume he is speaking as a proxy.

~~~
jacquesm
When speaking under oath take great care to not exceed the domain of
verifiable facts.

~~~
eru
As long as you don't enter the domain of falsifiable facts, you should be
fine.

------
greggman
This pass the buck attitude really pisses me off. You're the head of the
company, department, whatever, it's your gawd damn responsibility if your
subordinates do something wrong. If you hired bad people it's still your
responsibility. If you hired people that hired people it's still your
responsibility. I don't care if you knew or not. You set the tone, you set the
impossible deadlines or requirements. You fostered a culture where someone
thought that would be okay to do. Own up!

~~~
outside1234
My favorite manager ever told me when I took my first management job that "you
can delegate work but not responsibility"

~~~
rasz_pl
He was very old or simply lying. Very first thing University of Washington
Center for Information Assurance and Cybersecurity (accredited by U.S.
Department of Homeland Security, whatever that means) teaches you about
becoming a CIO is precisely delegating responsibility :)

~~~
outside1234
Thanks - I understand the healthcare website debacle now better. :)

------
PeterStuer
If you think this hasn't been endemic in this industry, let me take you back
to 1998: 'Car manufacturers can use modem electronic equipment to adapt the
engine to any type of test cycle. They can even tell the computer of the car
how to recognise when the car is being driven according to a specific test-
cycle and adjust the combustion accordingly. It was this kind of software that
six truck manufacturers, including two European firms (Volvo and Renault),
recently used in the United States to defeat the EPA's pollution control. As a
result emissions of nitrogen oxides from highway driving increased by 300 per
cent. " extract from: 'Cycle Beating and the EU test cycle for cars' \- Per
Kageson - European Federation for Transport and the Environment - November
1998

~~~
PeterStuer
Which further begs the question: if I could dig this up with literally 60
seconds of Googling form vaguely recalling having heard something like this
before, how come this hasn't been brought up by any of the 'journalists' on
the case?

------
artumi-richard
I just today listened to the BBC Bottom Line Special [1] on this, and their
guests, one who used to run Jaguar, and an expert on VW, don't buy it. Their
argument is that the engineers in VW could have done a proper job, but the
technology would add another $500 to each vehicle, and VW must have been
looking for a way not to spend the $500. And all the other VW engineers would
ask "How did you do it?".

[1]
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06jt518](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06jt518)
9mins 15 onward

~~~
mzs
They actually did have an answer to "How did you do it?"

The idea was that only DEP and EGR was needed for the smaller TDIs simply
because they burned less fuel so produced less emissions across the board.
That's not enough to meet current limits, but VW claimed they had better CDI
that solved it. They got many patents related to that and other companies even
licensed it. But how did they get such good performance, the lines was due to
the turbo and the tests did not really spool that all that much.

Turns-out it was baloney, but that's how they explained it at least.

------
kevinalexbrown
"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason,"
Horn said

Except when obviously true, companies that make public statements like this
will have difficulty recruiting the best engineers.

------
bsder
Uh, right. I don't think so.

I'm sure it went like this:

"Now, I'm not telling you to do anything illegal, but if you don't pass those
emissions standards on the next deadline, you're fired."

At each level down the chain.

I actually saw this in action at a big company subcontracting division to two
younger employees (one male and one female): "We need that contract. Period.
Your expense account on this unlimited and unaudited. Make sure you go pull
enough cash that you don't have to put anything embarrassing to the company on
the card. I'm not telling you to do anything illegal, but if you don't close
that contract, you don't have a job Monday. Anyhow, make sure the client has a
good time this weekend. See you Monday. Maybe."

They closed the contract. No one asked what it took. I left that job post
haste.

------
kabdib
"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason"

This was a system. A complex one. No way it was done by a couple of guys at
2AM, or whatever. This has to have been inter-group collusion, and management
is in CYA mode and shoving individuals under the bus.

VW has gone from being a cravenly stupid company that is going to be fined
billions of dollars, to a place where I suggest it is in every engineer's best
interest to resign, and the earliest opportunity they can manage.

~~~
maxerickson
Say the detection for the emissions testing is something like a flag in the
software that says the car is on a dyno, or some other factors that the ECU
has legitimate reasons to keep track of.

In that case, the defeat system is just a quick if else predicated on those
state variables and swapping between a set of engine parameters that is
emissions test safe and another set that provides better performance.

I don't mean to insist that this must be the case, I'm just trying to
illustrate that the cheat could happen at a level where much of the complexity
has already been abstracted away.

~~~
kabdib
Okay, imagine you're working on the hardware of the engine. Pistons, bolts,
lubrication. One Friday afternoon you leave work depressed because the
emissions suck, they've sucked for months, and they won't get better without a
major redesign.

On Monday morning, the emissions tests are suddenly passing.

"Ha, just one of those things," you say, "I thought we had emissions problems,
but I guess we don't after all. Let's ship the engine and have a party!"

There is no way that this happened.

~~~
maxerickson
I'm not arguing that it was a few people working in secret, just that it would
be possible for the changes to be done at a high level (in the engine system),
without pulling in all the people that were involved in developing the vehicle
(or even the powertrain).

------
a-dub
That's like blaming an illegal addition to your house on rogue contractors.
It's such a poorly conceived lie that it is actually insulting.

~~~
mfoy_
"On tonight's episode of Punked: watch as we add a second floor and backyard
porch to this man's bungalow while he's away for the weekend! You won't
believe his reaction!"

------
dohertyjf
What a classic terrible management move. I worked at a ski shop in college
that also sold (really bad) used ski equipment on eBay. One time the lead
manager accidentally let a lot of stock go live with a $1 minimum. They
realized it and went back in under different accounts and bid them all up.
When eBay caught them, they blamed the employees for it (myself and 4 others),
who all had nothing to do with it.

We all quit the next day. Who wants to work for someone like that?

------
austinjp
Do we think VW are the only car manufacturer doing this? I very much doubt it.
They're just the first to get caught.

Where rules stand in the way of profit, they get bent or broken. Banking,
automotive industry... which next? Oil? Housing? Pfff ... come on, we all know
they're rotten, it's just a question of how rotten and whether it comes out.

I suspect it's the tip of the iceberg for the auto industry. Whether we give a
damn, and whether we can or will do anything about it remains to be seen.

~~~
robotcookies
Why are so many people keen on defending VW with the claim "if VW are doing
it, everyone else must be"? That dilutes the severity of this problem. I've
seen several threads on HN meant to do this.

~~~
idbehold
> That dilutes the severity of this problem.

No, it actually increases the severity of this problem. One car manufacturer
cheating emissions vs. most car manufacturers cheating emissions.

------
tdicola
Mental note, never buy a VW car again. Cheating on emissions is bad, but
passing the buck down to the rank and file is deplorable.

~~~
rdudek
Don't forget Audi, Porche, Bentley, and others that VW owns :)

~~~
joshrotenberg
Yeah, remember to not buy that Lamborghini as well.

------
S_A_P
Expect VW US to play dumb until something out of Germany is officially done.
VW wont go out of business, but they are 10 years from growth in the US and
probably most other markets. I think the real fallout will come if the
prestige brands are made to look bad. Audi and Porsche have much more to lose,
and those are the profit centers for VW.

------
superuser2
I heard (total hearsay) from a friend in Detroit that GM spent millions of
dollars over several years trying to replicate VW's diesel technology. They
couldn't make the numbers work. Now we know why.

------
tailrecursion
By the way Mr Horn is head of VW Group of America, a subsidiary which besides
operating a factory in the U.S. is more or less a distributor of cars for VW
and related brands in the U.S. As other people have said Horn doesn't know
what's going on at VW AG.

Also, judging from an earlier article it appears it's common to refer to
various higher-ups on the product teams as Engineers even though they are
quite old and were clearly acting in a managerial or even executive capacity.
When Horn says "software engineer" he's making a leap and it's the wrong leap.

Horn is making these statements after being pressed by members of Congress,
he's not volunteering these misleading statements.

------
andmarios
How could some engineers cheat the entire VW corporation?

Germans are known for their ridiculously meticulous standards and testing. VW
should have many in-house and external-independent labs performing tests.

The engineers who write the ECU code have a great distance from the mechanics
who test every engine and car batch from their production line.

How did they never tested and engine entirely; power, emissions, consumption?

You may fool the regulators but you can't fool your own mechanics.

~~~
happyscrappy
This is even more unreal given their ad campaign "Truth in Engineering".

~~~
madez
The engineering was solid, it worked as intended, in contrast to the software
of other car companies.

------
ihsw
Volkswagen just ensured software developers would avoid them like the plague.

Why write code for a company that won't protect you from the mistakes of upper
management?

------
Retra
"For whatever reason" indeed. They must have just flipped a coin on the issue.
Really, it's just bad luck at work here. /s

~~~
Yhippa
I'll add an /s

"I'm sure there was no pressure on individual performers to make the results
look favorable for VW."

~~~
ino
Internet sarcastic comments are much better when people don't add /s at the
end.

------
jacquesm
He may come to regret testifying under oath with these particular sentences,
which are very much falsifiable. I'm not sure what the penalty is for lying to
congress but this could very well backfire. There is absolutely no way that
anybody within VW is able to put limits on the scope of the fall-out of this
whole affair at this point in time.

Not smart to still be in 'damage control' mode when the only way out is total
transparency.

I'll be very surprised if there won't be a mass resignation of engineers
working for VW for being thrown under the bus like this.

The mere suggestion that 'a couple of engineers and their managers' could get
away with deception on this scale speaks volumes about VWs perceived internal
lack of process - something they shouldn't be able to get away with - and
their lack of documentation for the development track of the engine.

If they've shredded documentation or if they suddenly find their version
control systems and email audit trail blank there just might be jail time for
some execs after all.

The thing that bugs me is that they are still somehow in lala land about how
they're going to cover this thing up, digging a deeper hole in the process.
You'd say the VW brand has sustained enough damage but clearly the execs don't
agree with that.

"for whatever reason"... quote of the day, as if engineers put stuff in
production without reasons, specifications or instructions.

------
woodpanel
_OT:_

I think VW gets a bit of an unfair beating. Yes, your car probably looses in
value, but

\- the cars could be upgraded (which VW seems to be willing to do for free)
and

\- no one was physically hurt (not like the General Motors ignition that
actually killed drivers).

Also when seeing the top 3 bestselling cars in the US being sheer gas guzzlers
(Ford F, Chevrolet Silverado and the Dodge Ram), the word 'hypocrisy' seems
like a fair description to the public reaction in the US.

 _That being said:_

Companies being social constructs and thus complex in their decision making
process, framing this scandal as an orchestrated scheme by VW's complete
management is ridiculous. What impresses me is, that this Scandal was in the
making for months and they did not do anything in advance. Somehow, to me this
proves the statement, that they weren't involved in this.

VW's _old_ leadership was notorious for being hands-on on even slightest car
details. Specifically Ferdinand Piech - who was nicknamed "Fugen-Ferdi"
because of him insisting that VW car's "Spaltmaße" (clearance?) be the
industry's best - is very unlikely to not have known about this.

IMO some did know, and choose to not inform those that didn't know - not even
when it was clear to them what this would cause to the company.

(edited for formatting)

------
acd
In my country Audi says the cars using the engine are "technically safe to use
and drive". I did report that to the consumer oversight board. I believe it's
false marketing, the cars are a danger to pedestrians and cyclists outside the
car.

I believe it's lies upon lies from the upper management seems like a corporate
culture going wrong.

~~~
illumen
There's clear evidence that many cities throughout Europe have too high air
pollution, and that it kills close to what smoking does. Cities have been
ordered by the EU to clean up by the end of the year, or face harsh fines.
Over 80,000 people die in the UK per year (smoking kills 100,000). Mostly from
diesel engine pollution.

Now try to think how many people it kills in the rest of Europe, the USA and
the world?

Cars (and buses) stink, are noisy, and worse -- they kill on a massive scale.
There is alternative tech available for order now that doesn't kill as much,
and provides better service.

Demand that the killing machines are replaced, and the makers, and the users
are brought to justice if they don't!

[http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/15/nearly-95...](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/15/nearly-9500-people-
die-each-year-in-london-because-of-air-pollution-study)

~~~
Karunamon
That's evidence of _pollution in general_ being a problem, which isn't even in
the same ballpark as establishing culpability for any amount of deaths for an
extra amount of one kind of pollutant by one carmaker over a fixed time
period.

~~~
illumen
See what was published just days before the VW scandal in Nature.
[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v525/n7569/full/nature1...](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v525/n7569/full/nature15371.html)

~~~
Karunamon
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that article talks about particulate emissions,
something which even the cheating VWs don't have a problem with - the
datapoint that led to this whole thing coming to light were high NOx
emissions, not particulates.

------
yitchelle
These are worrying times for VW if the new CEO to say something like this.
Many VW engineers will be considering leaving if VW is going find a couple of
engineers as scapegoats, and not be back them up.

~~~
Uhhrrr
Presumably there are a couple of engineers who deserve some of the blame, but
wow, what better way to say "Our culture is poison". Both because they're
throwing independent contributors under the bus, and because he's saying the
culture is such that the engineers would think it's OK.

To be fair, I think he might not have meant it to come out that way.

EDIT: Looking again at the article, it seems like the US CEO isn't even aware
of this: "The German automaker has suspended 10 senior managers, including
three top engineers, as part of its internal investigation." So VW doesn't
necessarily have a poisonous culture. But they do have a US CEO who doesn't
prepare when he testifies to Congress.

~~~
yitchelle
Unfortunately, we may never know the truth in the scenario. The way that
automotive world works with the multi-tier supplier chain, anyone who is not
close to the source, will never know where the real blame is.

Behind the scenes in VW's HQ in Wolfsburg, it must be chaos.

------
weasel40
"This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever reason"

In other words, it's the programmers, the "geeks," the "code monkeys" that
should take the fall for all of this and not the non-technical, MBA-holding
managers to whom they answered and who almost certainly enjoy better
compensation and more respect.

The perils of our profession's relatively low prestige are on display here for
all to see.

~~~
dagw
_and not the non-technical, MBA-holding managers_

Not that it changes your overall point to VW/VAG is a pretty big on having
engineers in senior management. Both their former and current CEO have a
serious technical background (metallurgy and Computer engineering
respectively). As does their chairman of the board.

------
xirdstl
Well, is there any surprise they've chosen a couple of fall guys to blame it
on?

------
afro88
Let's assume what he says is true. Then the managers of those engineers are
incompetent and their managers also. If you hire people who do this sort of
thing, and you don't even notice, then the problem is yours. There's no
scapegoating here.

Still assuming this is true: If a few rogue individual engineers can do this,
imagine what else could be lurking in that codebase.

------
lightlyused
Meanwhile here in the US we let people mod their diesel engines and nothing is
done about it.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal)

------
bcantoni
I'm assuming the development process for embedded auto software like this
would be pretty rigorous, meaning it would be fairly difficult to sneak in
code like this.

I also assume that testing of emissions software like this would involve a lot
of lab/road testing with the vehicles against the EPA test profile and
therefore a lot of people would be involved. Suggesting this is the stealthy
work of just a couple of software engineers is very hard to believe.

Can anyone who's worked on embedded software in the automotive environment
comment?

~~~
cnvogel
The investigations regarding Toyotas(?) unexplained/unintended acceleration
suggest otherwise. The code was apparently pretty bad, halfheartedly reviewed
and just unmaintainable. While there the software seemed to have (a huge
number of) errors put in by mistake, of course most independent reviews should
also spot intentional mischief.

I don't claim that VW had comparably crappy code, but "industry practice"
likely wouldn't have caught it either way.

~~~
joezydeco
Here, this link will help:

[http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-
unintende...](http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-unintended-
acceleration-and-big-bowl-%E2%80%9Cspaghetti%E2%80%9D-code)

~~~
cnvogel
Thanks for adding this!

------
tedmiston
I've always wondered how something like this plays out legally: Can the
engineers be somehow held accountable for writing something they were forced /
asked to by their managers?

~~~
JustSomeNobody
Yes, they can. Most engineers (in the US) have to take an ethics course that
covers this. Just because your boss says do something, doesn't give you a
pass.

~~~
ohpea
Do you have a source for ethics education and engineering? I've never heard of
this being something that most engineers are taught (in the US).

~~~
csarsam
My CS program contains a 1 credit hour course on ethics in computing. I
believe this is required as part of the ABET accreditation process:
[http://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-
criteria/cri...](http://www.abet.org/accreditation/accreditation-
criteria/criteria-for-accrediting-computing-programs-2015-2016/)

------
jondubois
Even if that was the case (which I doubt), it's the executives' fault for
creating a culture which fosters cheating. It's their fault for not being
aware of what's going on in their own company. They probably have a culture of
"Don't ask, don't tell".

These execs get paid huge salaries/bonuses for being responsible for stuff.
But when things go wrong, the first thing they do is shift the blame back down
to their workers.

------
lawnchair_larry
The "engineers" that these stories refer to are kind of like saying the CTO is
an engineer. These weren't rank and file employees.

------
tastynacho
Related side question. A few months before this leaked out I bought a brand
new Golf TDI(diesel) and I'm in California where it sounds like my car is
technically now illegal?

I have no idea what I should be doing at this point. I've been significantly
overpaying on the note but not sure I should now. Does anyone have an idea
what this means for the owners of the vehicles in question?

~~~
thebrettd
Your car is still legal to drive. edit: Source is the apology letter I got
from VW a couple days ago.

------
CyberDildonics
What a total fucking asshole.

~~~
joshrotenberg
Seriously, well put.

------
bertil
If what he is saying is true (which is about as likely as me getting
pregnant), that would be far, far worst than cheating for a test: he is saying
two people can put a chemical storage, undetected, and release it according to
a complex plan, without any tester, QA, manager finding about it.

If that blatant lie even makes sense to him, he should not be let near an
anything industrial.

------
paulus_magnus
Yeah, an intern did this in his spare 20% time.

[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/volkswagen-
em...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/volkswagen-emissions-
scandal-vw-was-warned-four-years-ago-its-emissions-test-software-was-
illegal-a6669376.html)

#enron #pinto #oilspill

------
dsfyu404ed
It's quite possible that the "company" didn't actually know about it because
they built a culture where people know what when to break rules and when not
to ask.

It's not all that different of a culture than a government agency that doesn't
need to be told to do things that benefit the party of the current regime.

------
hoag
I actually suggested this theory a few weeks ago:
[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/volkswagen-different-
theory-w...](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/volkswagen-different-theory-what-
happened-marc-hoag)

~~~
crpatino
I don't understand. Why would software guys fear the results of some
chemistry-based process? They don't seem to have any control over that.

The ones fired would have been the mechanical engineers that designed the
engine, aren't they?

~~~
steego
You know how those software guys are always trying to impress people with the
performance of their software...

------
mtgx
Let me guess - was this a 2-person mistake, too?

[http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/major-security-flaw-
lea...](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/major-security-flaw-
leaves-100-6595166)

------
bryanlarsen
An earlier article said that the two who engineered the cheating were the
chief engineer and the guy in charge of engines. So whether they engineered it
or not, they (and the CEO who has already been fired) are responsible; that's
their job.

------
Animats
OK, Volkswagen AG, release the source control log for the software. Let's see
exactly who put in that code, and the change log for it. I'd really like to
see the unit tests for the defeat code.

------
rdancer
It's a good thing that there are stiff penalties for perjury during
congressional hearings. Few examples just during this past year, when people
lied under oath, got caught, and... Oh, never you mind.

------
mbesto
> _" This was a couple of software engineers who put this in for whatever
> reason,"_

I'm not a lawyer, but establishing motive is like the most important and basic
thing to establish, right?

------
dacox
It is a crime that Top Gear is no longer on the air during these times.

------
rasz_pl
couple of software engineers, just like a couple of low ranking employes
decided to do the _same_ thing at Peugeot, Renault, Citroen, Volvo and Ford!

[http://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/kosten/unregelmaessigkeite...](http://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/kosten/unregelmaessigkeiten-
nicht-nur-bei-vw-abgas-rueckfuehrung-mehrere-stunden-nicht-aktiv-vorwuerfe-
auch-gegen-ford-und-peugeot_id_4998888.html)

------
ck2
Funny how this coming down to software vs "hardware" departments.

Except not so funny as scapegoats will lose their jobs and benefits.

No way software people did this in a bubble.

------
ascendantlogic
Yes, this was the work of individuals. Hundreds, if not thousands of
individuals that did it with the blessing of some reasonably high up people.

------
funkyy
"Software Engineering department will get bonuses depending on emission
results!" \- legal way to push department to cheat.

------
poofyleek
But who merged pull request to master?

------
sjclemmy
I just heard this on the radio - "it was down to a few software engineers".
What nonsense.

------
lxfontes
Bob: Hey guys, we didn't pass emissions tests.

Jay: I think we can adjust the ECU parameters.

Bob: Oh, nice. let's try that.

Mechanic James: By doing this you guys lowered the lifetime of a few
components. We might need to re-engineer the whole thing :(

Bob: What if we detect we are undergoing tests and tweak it? This way we still
can deliver the project on time.

Some manager: Yeah, do it.

Now Bob and Jay are in trouble.......

------
DonHopkins
Fraudvergnügen: It's what makes a car a Volkswagen.

------
tn13
Does not matter. The people at top are responsible.

~~~
rconti
He's not at the top of the corporation, just of the US operations. He might
well not have known.

------
twblalock
Even if this is true, and I doubt that it is, it's not really that important.
The real question is why people in positions of responsibility didn't prevent
it from happening.

------
s73v3r
See, this is why I can never believe anyone when they try to justify executive
level compensation. They always say it's cause the executives are "taking
risk" and "responsible for the company." And when things are going well,
they're quick to take credit. But when stuff like this goes on, suddenly the
CEO still gets his golden parachute, and none of the remaining executives know
what's going on.

------
happyscrappy
This ridiculous story is not going to hold and they know it so watch for
higher ups trying to divest. I mean Bosch told them it would be illegal to use
the way they were intending. I surely hope someone is watching who at the
company is selling shares.

------
epx
Haha!!

------
mattexx
...and monkeys might fly out of my butt. :-D

------
fithisux
How predictable. Personally I am hesitant to buy anything ever from them.

------
spectralblu
Lets throw our own people under the bus and see what kind of juicy leaks come
out!

