
How to Provide Great Feedback When You're Not in Charge (2016) - prostoalex
https://fs.blog/2016/02/provide-feedback/
======
msluyter
There's sometimes a status/power component associated with feedback. I used to
work with someone who tended to make a variety of subtle power plays --
dominating or "guiding" discussions when not the designated leader of the
meeting, for example. I noticed that he often gave unsolicited advice, and
although it was typically prefaced nicely with "would you mind if I offered
some feedback?" I think it tended to also serve as a sort of power/status
display. I.e., "I'm an authority on this subject, and in some way superior or
more knowledgable than you."

And I had/have quite mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I felt that
this person was generally trying to be helpful and improve the situation
around them. And feedback/advice can certainly serve that end. Who doesn't
want to know how to improve their overall performance, right?

But on the other, to the extent that the power dynamic above was actually in
play, unsolicited feedback of this sort only rubbed people the wrong way.
Perhaps I was reading too much into it, but thinking back to certain times in
my past where I've been the advice giver, I do think there are occasions where
my motivations were suspect, where, at the time I _thought_ I was genuinely
trying to help someone, but which in retrospect were mostly superiority
displays.

I don't have any concrete conclusions to draw from this; just something the
article stirred up. I welcome your feedback. ;)

~~~
supercanuck
Sometimes the difference is doing it publicly versus privately.

Hey, I noticed in the meeting, you did this, have you thought about trying
this?

As someone in consulting for a long period of time, i find people think I'm
more genuine if I provide it privately, that way it doesn't come across as a
power play.

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cloogshicer
In German we have a saying that goes "Ratschläge sind auch Schläge", which
translates loosely to "advice is also a blow/hit/punch".

The word for advice (Ratschlag) literally contains the word for blow or hit
(Schlag).

~~~
gilbetron
Advice also squeezes like a vice ;)

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blackbrokkoli
Not a bad article, but I still want to bring something up that I find
problematic with a lot of communication advice.

How to actually act on it in a real situation? How do you remember and apply
all these rules when you feel like the timing is off, when you're talking to
the person who you know only works here because of weird circumstances and
cares more about the opinion of the coworker next to them who always mocks
corporate lingo? How do you deliver your delicate feedback in a situation
where you both know you own the other guy? This stuff is IMO the thing that
seperates the really good talkers from the rest of us - and I was never really
able to catch up with such articles who seem to assume a limited number of
conditions to adhere to; like an "advice giving robot" to steal their phrase.
How do you improve in being an advice giving human?

~~~
donatj
> cares more about the opinion of the coworker next to them who always mocks
> corporate lingo

Don’t get me wrong here but in my experience the people who haven’t drank the
koolaid can often see the forest through the trees far more clearly.

------
milohax
I try to offer Appreciation when I see something great, or something helped
me. I make a point of that.

But I'm reluctant to offer Coaching or Evaluation, and _never_ unsolicited, or
on a public forum. I find it difficult to not come across as a dick, and
frankly that's how I read anyone else's unsolicited feedback.

~~~
Jwarder
As an alternative idealistic view: you have all this awesome knowledge that
you have built up over a lifetime that you are now hoarding. No one is perfect
and some of your advice might be wrong or otherwise unhelpful; but sharing
knowledge and advice allows others to achieve great things that they might
have struggled with alone.

What is worse: risking someone thinking you are a dick or allowing someone to
needlessly suffer through their problems?

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danieltillett
Nothing works unless the person on the receiving end thinks you really care
about them as a person. If you actually care about the person you are giving
feedback to it doesn't matter what you say or do as any approach works (from
mere grunting to hours long love-ins). If you don't care then nothing works -
that is unless you are one of those rare people who can fake it well.

------
maxekman
Very important topic. If more ppl were aware of how they give feedback we
would benefit a lot; both online and in our workplaces.

~~~
tempguy9999
Not nearly as much as if more people were willing to listen to feedback.

I'm never-endingly amazed at the degree people don't want to hear. I greatly
value the company of those that do, and return the favour.

~~~
codingdave
It might be worth asking why they don't want to hear it. Do they feel
attacked? Are they suffering from imposter syndrome, and any feedback sets
them down a path of low self-esteem? Do they simply not trust that their team
has faith in them and is trying to build up a higher level of skills? Or is it
actually a flaw, where they think they are right and everyone else is wrong...
so you need to address that before you can hit any other points in your
feedback.

Almost all communication, and really almost everything in business, go better
when everyone thinks about how people on the receiving end will take it. Which
is almost always about empathy for their perspective, and understanding the
personal drivers and goals of your team.

~~~
tempguy9999
Let's put aside my own failings of sensitivity and similar. I acknowledge them
and that they are a barrier to criticising other people.

If they have rejected what you say then in many cases they don't want to
explain why because that gets at the very reason they are rejecting it.

"I wrote it" isn't a valid reason for rejecting an offer of a code review.

"We're using this tech" even though the boss-man mandating it doesn't
understand its cost or benefits. He just read an article on XSLT and we have
to use it.

"If you run this script every night it'll report those errors in the morning
and you can fix them before they hit the customer. Response: "no", and no
system was put in place to prevent them.

All real examples. There is no obvious reason for many rejections, and I
suspect a lot of the time that's because there is no good reason. If there is,
tell me! then I can understand better. But that's rare.

(Another rambly answer I'm afraid)

~~~
codingdave
Reasons for human behavior aren't always good reasons... but they are reasons.
If you are putting a judgment on their reasons, that in itself is a barrier to
good teamwork. Their reasons might be bad, and might stem from their own
personality flaws. But they are still the root cause of the problems, so you
need to deal with them no matter how silly you may feel they are.

Sometimes people don't even know their own reasons, or don't realize what they
are doing. This is where the squishy/warm fuzzy conversations help, as you can
talk about what people are really feeling about the team and the work.
Analytical folk aren't always good at such conversations, but think of every
conversation with your co-workers as if it were a retrospective on your
working relationship with them, and it will help.

So let us go through one of your example -- the boss mandates using a tech
because he read an article. And you find it to be a bad choice for valid,
analytical reasons. So you likely are approaching him with a "I'm right,
you're wrong" attitude, and he may be responding with an underlying attitude
of "Screw you, I'm your boss.", because he has a strong ego and you challenged
it. So you both are annoyed and ungiving. Instead, maybe go in with a
different approach of asking to understand why that tech helps the business,
and truly listen to the answers, then compare/contrast your preferred tech
with the reasons given. Then the conversation isn't about "Tech X is wrong",
it is about underlying reasons and business needs. Which will be less likely
to trigger defensive reactions from the boss.

Ultimately, you cannot change other people. But you can change your own
approach to other people.

~~~
tempguy9999
> But they are still the root cause of the problems, so you need to deal with
> them no matter how silly you may feel they are

I simply cannot disagree. I just do not know how.

> Analytical folk aren't always good at such conversations, but think [...]
> and it will help

I'll chew over that carefully, thanks.

> So let us go through one of your example...

that was a particularly nasty example for me to give because there was no
solution. He would not listen to what I had to say. He thought XSLT was a sort
of magic. The cost is still hitting the company years later as they transition
away from it. Over that and a related issue, I resigned. Sometimes you must
take it on the chin.

I appreciate what you say, and the decent intent behind it and as mentioned
will chew it over. Thank you.

------
tonycletus
Great Article @prostoalex. In our company, we make the Feedback process easily
done by using Happierco (www.happierco.com) to keep track of everything than
to performance management. And there's always a room to improve the process.

~~~
high_derivative
I mean great if it works for you, but the happierco website gives me
impressions of dystopian micromanagement on the management end, and
performative happiness on the receiving end.

Maybe disclose that you work for them, too.

