
The Shut-In Economy - killwhitey
https://medium.com/matter/the-shut-in-economy-ec3ec1294816
======
JohnBooty
I don't feel like ordering things online makes me a shut-in at all - just the
opposite.

I work a lot, and by spending less time on the drudgery of brick-and-mortar
shopping, I have more time to spend on the things that matter to me. Including
socializing.

Yeah, maybe I leave the house less, but are those trips to the store really
"quality time?" Making a run to Wal-Mart or the supermarket to buy toilet
paper is time better spent than playing with my dog or reading a book?

We're missing out on some potential fun times, sure. I have made friends,
bumped into existing friends, and had some good conversations while shopping.
But those experiences were and far between. One positive social experience out
of one or two hundred trips to the stores, maybe.

Retail shopping is usually freaking _depressing_ \- the employees and
customers are often rude, and you're bombarded from all angles with sights and
sounds designed to entice (or scare) you into buying things you don't need. No
thank you.

Lately my wife and I subscribed to a service that sends you 3 ready-to-prepare
meals (for two or four people) per week. These aren't frozen heat-and-eat
meals; they ship you fresh ingredients and easy to follow recipes. Are we
shut-ins? Because cooking these meals together is generally a lot more fun
(and healthier) than dining out for us.

~~~
eigenvector
> Retail shopping is usually freaking depressing - the employees and customers
> are often rude, and you're bombarded from all angles with sights and sounds
> designed to entice (or scare) you into buying things you don't need. No
> thank you.

That's not about retail, that's about urban life. I live in a town of less
than 2,000 people. There's one grocery store, and when you go there you
recognize at least half the people inside (if you didn't already recognize
their vehicle in the parking lot). In 2015, there is less need than ever for
us to all live in the same few places. Remote work can offer you offer the
benefits of small-town life without the loss of economic opportunities that
used to go along with it.

~~~
wutbrodo
> In 2015, there is less need than ever for us to all live in the same few
> places.

That's an interesting perspective. I've heard (and believe) the exact
opposite. In 2015, there's no need to incur the (well-studied) economic,
environmental, and cultural costs of low population density. Not to mention
it's kind of bizarre to assume that it's clearly _better_ that having a
population of only 2,000 people from which to meet people and make friends.

Your environment is what you make of it. I used to live in a smaller town and
now that I live in a dense metropolis, I meet people and make new friends
CONSTANTLY (not even joking, just this week I've (platonically) gotten 2
people's numbers based on meeting, finding mutual interests, and both of us
wanting to hang out).

~~~
mrec
> Your environment is what you make of it.

Alternatively, maybe different people genuinely prefer different environments.
You appear to be an extreme extrovert, so it's no great surprise that you
enjoy living in a metropolis. Other people aren't, and don't.

~~~
lmm
I think that's backwards from the usual definition of "extrovert". I don't
like making small-talk with relative strangers, whether that's the store
clerk, someone waiting for the same train, or what have you. So I love living
in a big city.

~~~
mrec
Yes and no. I absolutely get where you're coming from; I'm an extreme
introvert living in London, and the anonymity is about the only thing that
makes it bearable. The flip side here, and in many (but not all) metropoles,
is the near-impossibility of finding quiet, either at work (expensive
commercial property pushing employers toward open-plan bedlam hell) or at home
(expensive residential property pushing people into tiny thin-walled
apartments).

I think the small-talk-with-everyone-you-meet thing is a characteristic of
very small towns and villages. I've lived in medium-sized places that didn't
have it. The introvert ideal of a blissful hermitage miles from anywhere is
probably impractical, for many reasons, but I still have some faint hope of
finding a liveable middle ground someday.

~~~
lmm
Modern buildings in London seem to have got the soundproofing right; of course
you'll pay for it but it's worth it IMO. I live in a shared ownership (housing
association owns 75%, me 25%) flat and it's completely quiet (the tradeoff is
that I'm living in Tottenham as that's the only way to make it even vaguely
affordable).

~~~
mrec
Sounds nice. I'm a bit further in (N4) and in an older conversion, and it's
not even a tiny bit quiet.

------
hoboon
This is how I feel. I don't watch TV for hours like I did as a child. What I
do now is worse; stay in doors programming, browsing the web aimlessly, or
staring at the ceiling. I don't blame my internet lifestyle for this really,
but I literally don't know what else to do and the internet is so
accommodating to me being a shut-in. I know I'm wasting my life but I don't
know how to stop.

San Francisco is a beautiful city but it is wasted on me and I feel like I
should feel guilty for that. I don't deserve this nice city; it belongs to
creative people.

Trying to leave the house to do anything interesting takes herculean efforts.
I can't find joy or interest in anything beyond an intellectual level.
Everyday sometimes feels like it's worse than the last.

I'm trapped in an un-ending present where I grow older but never grow as a
person.

ps - anything you have to suggest is something i've heard already x10 and have
or currently trying, such as therapy.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Same here. Live in a beautiful city, cool friends, lovely girlfriend. Plenty
of things exist here of which I can objectively say they're awesome, and in
many things I'm genuinely interested, and so I avidly read and follow the
news, whether it's social topics, economics, politics, tech etc. Yet I hold
very little interest in experiencing anything personally.

If I had to describe it succinctly; I've become a dedicated spectator, but no
longer wish to participate.

It's pretty ridiculous and something very strongly tells me it's the wrong way
to live life, and I'd love for that to change. But the passion just isn't
there to get involved anymore for even the simplest things like taking a walk
outside. Again, as a spectator it's great. It's not as if I'm disinterested or
don't like to hear from friends if they call me or want to visit. But calling
them, or visiting them, somehow it's too big of a step.

As it's only been like this for a few years I can see how ridiculous all of
this is. It's like I got the lazy syndrome: still care, but not enough to act
on it. Yet it's not really laziness as I never watch TV or sit on the couch or
sleep all day or get no work done... It's something else but I can't quite put
my finger on it. I wish I could take some kind of hormone injection and
rediscover my lost motivation for life.

Similarish postscript as you btw. Proper food, sleep, exercise, meditation,
social, iteration etc, already covered stuff like that, but I'm open to new
ideas.

~~~
bkjelden
I think we're afraid of being wrong.

We live in a society where access to information is greater than it ever has
been in history, and everything we may take an interest in doing has been done
before, and someone has already pointed out all of the flaws and how it's
wrong. We see that first and focus in on it, and we let it destroy something
that a previous generation would've seen as imperfect yet beautiful.

~~~
Terr_
Information overload can be worse than none at all. I recall someone did a
study of employee 401K participation, and above a certain point, the more
choices they were given the fewer people ever signed up.

Our limited capacity for "decision-making" is at least as real a limitation as
time or money.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Absolutely, abundant choice can paralyze.

For me it has to do with opportunity costs. Take a strawberry milkshake
instead of banana, no biggie if it tastes bad. Take a career path and end up
regretting it, and it's a really big deal, usually. And even if your career
path wasn't a bad choice per se, again, opportunity cost, perhaps the
alternative had been much better. At the end of the day you just have to
choose, try it, and if it appears nice enough you double-down, and that choice
can be really difficult.

One of the most frustrating things for me had been having to decide on the
bulk of my professional education before ever having worked in the field. I
think programming is to some extent an exception in that many programmers get
a decent experience on what programming is like as a kid, as a hobby. Being an
engineer in an office is a whole different matter of course, but the notion of
programming for hours on a daily basis is something you can grasp by age 15 or
18 when you decide on a focus in high school and a major in college.

But for so many professions, you have people age 17 having to decide if they
like being a dentist or a lawyer, or a sales person or a government worker,
while having near-zero experience, and fleeting ideas on what it is from
movies and magazines.

Not sure what it's like in the US but in the Netherlands at age 11 you get
tested and go to a certain level of secondary school. The lowest gets you
entrance to community college at age 16. The middle to vocational school (e.g.
university of applied sciences). The highest to university ('research uni').
There's some opportunities to switch after age 11, but it's very tricky for
multiple reasons and generally rare. And then at age 13 or so you decide on a
focus which gets you different subjects. e.g. Physics & Science, or Culture
and Society or Economics & Society. And those give entrance to your tertiary
education. So if you chose at age 13 or so that you liked Culture, you'd have
gotten things like art history and French, and you couldn't go on at age 17 to
pick Computer Science. You'd have to do an extra program, again difficult for
various reasons and rare.

Now at 24 looking back this structure was really frustrating. I liked
economics as a subject, chose that path, always did Computer Science as a
hobby (which wasn't a subject in any of the paths), but couldn't do CS unless
I did Physics (which was a subject I had for years regardless as everyone gets
it, but not to the full extent supposedly required).

~~~
tomp
> Not sure what it's like in the US but in the Netherlands at age 11 you get
> tested and go to a certain level of secondary school.

Wow, that sounds really f*-ed up! I always thought most places were like
Slovenia (or UK is similar, if I understand correctly), where the main
decision point is only at 18-19, when you're choosing your university! (The
earlier is at 14-15, between a "gymnasium" \- general-purpose school - and a
vocational school (e.g. for a hairdresser, cook, ...), but most reasonably
intelligent people go to a gymnasium).

~~~
cronin101
I'm originally from the UK and, while you are correct that university at ~18
is usually the point-of-no-return, "high prestige" universities often have
significant expectations on performance within a predefined set of subjects
(at least within engineering) during the admissions process.

It would be very challenging for someone lacking the above-average levels of
interest/talent in relevant fields at the age of 16 (spurring them to take
related college-level courses) to get into a prestigious STEM course - outwith
extraordinary circumstance.

------
zkhalique
Think about all this specialization.

This is what a "good economy" looks like. Parents who work long hours so they
can afford to rent some great apartment and buy _stuff_ for their family. They
outsource a lot of the childcare to professional nannies or whoever. They
outsource a lot of the elder care to nursing homes _etc._ People are getting
married later in life so they can focus on their career. Individualism, kids
moving out early, trying to impress each other with great apartments etc.

We are materially richer, but what about the social connections?

Similarly with technology. Take birthdays, for example. On their birthday
people used to get personal phone calls, possibly emails. Then facebook made
it easy to just write "happy birthday" on someone's wall, and see who else
wrote it. Then, to increase "engagement" (or the appearance thereof), they let
you write a quick note right where the birthday reminder appeared, on the
right-hand pane. Now you couldn't even see what others wrote, and sometimes
would breeze through, personalizing the greetings slightly "Happy birthday
girl! Older and sexier they say."

Now, people are complaining that they have to get through so many birthday
wishes on their wall and write a semi-personalized "thanks" response to each
one. So the remaining step is to make an app to automate this. So the end
result is we'll have nearly automatic sending and nearly automatic thanking,
basically robots talking to robots, while the whole experience of birthday
wishes is automated away from humans.

~~~
cubano
> We are materially richer, but what about the social connections?

Well...Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn of course.

~~~
onion2k
Those are database records. Social connections are actual interactions with
other people.

~~~
ptaipale
Well, online services are also actual interactions with other people, much of
the time.

They are interactions based on telecommunications, computing, display and
sound reproducing technologies, etc, and they are one way to have contact with
other people. "Real-world" interactions are also involve mediums: sound waves
traveling in air, eyesight dependent on presence of visible light frequencies.
Physical phenomenons like the transport of bits is, deep down.

Yes, there are some aspects in physical presence which do not apply to on-line
social connections. Most importantly, touch.

But (depending on culture), we don't often touch people who are in the same
room, either. On-line interactions have also some aspects that _improve_ our
workings with other people, over physical presence -- for instance, from on-
line you can go off-line and exchange ideas and information, while if you're
in a room and speak, the person who comes in 5 minutes later will not hear it.

~~~
saiya-jin
I am sorry to say but you're so wrong... human interaction is not only
accoustic and touch-based, but also visual, which takes most of sensory signal
feed to brain (correct me if I am wrong here).

If you shun away from human interaction, that's fine. But be honest to
yourself and don't say few clicks/strokes of keyboard are similar to having a
decent talk with anybody. Heck, even video conf call is miles away from real
world experience. I am an introvert myself, but this is simply not true.

~~~
ptaipale
Interaction in the same room is not the _same_ as on-line interaction, of
course; but it is _not better in all ways_. Many ways, yes, but not all. In
some ways, humans interacting over (e.g.) a computer are faring better.

------
Afforess
I guess call me crazy, but I really enjoy chores. They aren't always pleasent,
but they are a diversion. I can listen to NPR podcasts while grocery shopping.
I catch up on the "Stuff you should know" podcast while cleaning and vacuuming
my apartment. And I enjoy a walk around the area in the evenings when the
weather is nice out. The diversions are where I can really think. I often have
too many distractions at the computer, and can't focus on the really hard
problems I am working on. I've found when I am doing something menial like
chores, that is when I can really think and solve hard problems, especially
when I am not trying to at all.

I would never outsource my chores. I just enjoy them too much.

~~~
ryanSrich
Yup. I don't even think of them as chores. I mean, maybe cleaning, but grocery
shopping? I enjoy that shit. I'm too anal retentive to let someone else pick
out my produce. Aside from that, if you're in a city why do you even need
these services?

Are these people so glued to their work that they can't take 30 minutes out of
the day to walk to the grocery store and pick up a few items? This article was
very sad to read imo.

~~~
saiya-jin
that couple situation, whether imaginery or not, seemed almost desperate - she
comes home at 9, he at 1 am. This might work for years (it would be a sad
story if they had kids in this regime though), until something changes and
they end up having more time for each other. Who they discover living with
might be pleasant or nasty surprise...

This might be just me, but being in relationship is always a strong bond for
me, that works only if both parties have similar attitude towards each other
and can actually be present in the relationship.

------
campers
The most 'jarring' part in the article was "But when the Homejoy app maid
shows up at her apartment, she feels uncomfortable. The class implications of
someone cleaning her toilet are jarring."

Income inequality will always exist in capitalistic society and to a certain
level that's ok. Whats not so cool it to feel as if they are inferior just
because thats how they're making the best of their life circumstances. As one
of the workers said “This is a job I need, but I actually love,” Some of them
come from tougher times and appreciate the work they have. Being polite to
them and treating them equally as another human goes a long way.

When our cleaner is over we always have a good little chat to her. She moved
from Colombia to Australia by herself, is studying English. Respect to her
drive to move to a foreign country and work hard to get ahead. She wasn't born
in a middle-upper class first world country like I was.

~~~
sliverstorm
I think it's more along the lines of Katy's own sudden perceived elevation of
status is jarring to her. "The wealthy" as a group come with a lot of
stereotypes, responsibilities, & judgments. Katy doesn't think of herself as
wealthy, but having hired help is generally a sign of considerable wealth in
the USA. So, Katy is unsettled by how her social status seems to have changed
out of the blue, and how she now needs to behave.

Particularly, there is a pervasive stereotype of the wealthy mistreating or
dehumanizing hired help, so any suddenly-wealthy middle class person is going
to be panicking, "Oh shit, how do I not become _that_ wealthy person, I've
never done this before"

I don't think judgement of the worker was even on the radar.

~~~
danans
There's another, perhaps US-specific dimension to the discomfort:

The self-sufficiency and egalitarianism of doing one's own chores used to be a
note of middle class pride, at least in the once strong middle-class
industrial areas of the country.

These values were further facilitated by the post-war boom in home-labor
saving appliances (washing machines, etc.)

Many of us who grew up in such a cultural context have a more difficult
relationship with others serving us, and we don't feel it gives us an increase
in status, but rather it feels almost like a moral failing. Of course, with
the ever busier nature of our lives and the availability of low-wage workers,
it's quite hard to stick to those morals, hence the inner conflict.

People I know who grew up in US cities or other countries where a significant
service-employed underclass exists don't seem to have issues with being
served. From what I've seen, being able to afford service labor in those
places is actually a status symbol that people strive towards.

------
tomphoolery
So for all of you people who withstand the bullshit of the bay area but stay
in all the time...why are you wasting all your money living in a city and not
taking advantage of being urban? You could, instead, move a bit further
outside the city and live around trees, grass and the best part? There's like
no people around! It's great!

I mean...you don't even need to live in the bay area. You could just move to,
oh I don't know, one of the other 20 massive major cities in America and live
much cheaper. Is being amongst all of these startups really that important if
all you're doing is going to the office and coming home? Never going out and
being a part of the social scene? I just...don't understand this idea at all.
Seems like a fairly illogical way to live life.

FWIW this is precisely the reason why I moved away from the suburbs and live
in a city. I just like living in the city more, I like walking around and
having conversations with people. Not talking to my neighbors makes me afraid
of what I don't know about them. Not seeing anyone or knowing anyone exists
seems scary to me, and the Internet is just 70% there because the social
interactions you can have on here are limited at best.

Saying you have a social life because you're on the Internet is kinda like
saying you're a total stud because you have a lot of phone sex. It's not
really the same thing, but you might feel the same way about it.

~~~
ryanSrich
> So for all of you people who withstand the bullshit of the bay area but stay
> in all the time...why are you wasting all your money living in a city and
> not taking advantage of being urban? You could, instead, move a bit further
> outside the city and live around trees, grass and the best part? There's
> like no people around! It's great!

Right!? When I saw that the concierge said they have a lot of "work from
homers" I was like "wait...what". Why on earth would you live in SF if you
could work from anywhere?

~~~
robryan
I would imagine that a lot of them have jobs that may be from home but require
frequent meetings in the area.

Other than that it might be for networking, or they might have all their
friends in the area.

------
sowhatquestion
I don't have the historical knowledge to do it myself, but it would be
fascinating to read an in-depth comparison between these services and the
economy of servants in the 19th or early-20th century.

The image in my head (from movies and books and reading [about] Piketty) is
that the wealthy in earlier eras were more idle, living off rents rather than
incomes. I imagine servants would have been more of a status symbol for them,
whereas today's upper-middle-class strivers see them as more of a necessity
"to dedicate more time to working." I wonder, is that as close as we get to
progress, under capitalism? I.e., if we're going to have servants, the people
employing them today have a somewhat less dubious reason for doing so than
their ancestors?

~~~
ninguem2
I don't think servants were just status symbols. Cooking, cleaning and laundry
without appliances was a very time consuming job which probably occupied the
days of the wife and daughters of a family with no servants. Add to that
inconvenient shopping, clothes mending, child care.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Yep, your comment reminds me of the $3500 shirt:

[http://www.sleuthsayers.org/2013/06/the-3500-shirt-
history-l...](http://www.sleuthsayers.org/2013/06/the-3500-shirt-history-
lesson-in.html)

------
anigbrowl
_Van Ekert’s answer: “It’s more to dedicate more time to working.”_

With the arrival of every functionary serving as a reminder of what could
happen if you slow down your pace on the treadmill.

This article makes me glad I don't live in SF any more.

~~~
copsarebastards
There's an episode of the show _Black Mirror_ that makes this very very
obvious.

~~~
unfunco
For those wondering, I think the episode that copsarebastards is referring to
is called 15 Million Merits.

------
anupshinde
I started working from home as an employee and then moved out of the job to be
an independent consultant working from home. I enjoyed the freedom, there was
so much I could do apart from work after saving on daily travel and lesser
restriction on time.

Slowly, it turned the other way round - I got shut-in. Started from not having
to go to local store daily - because it was a waste of time. I could not
relate to a calendar-day. Sometimes I would start my work at 6pm in evening
and sometimes at 3am in the morning. I tried to discipline myself, but it did
not work out for valid reasons. And I started introverting due to lack of
social contacts. Health wasn't an issue - because home gyms were good enough
and I think those kept me off any depression. The shut-in introduces pretty
bad habits. The "freedom" was out, I was working most of the time - it almost
felt like a self-imposed prison in the name of discipline and saving time.
Sometimes I have wondered if my life was any better than placing my brain in a
box bionically connected to a computer.

Now, I make it a habit to go out once every day or couple of days, same time
for 45 mins-1 hour a bit after the busy day starts for most. It is a HUGE
waste of time but it acts as a tether for my work day, makes me feel grateful
for what I have and surprisingly, results in better productivity.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
Oh god this is so familiar. Work from home, too, pays the bills just fine but
I've lost any semblance of schedule. Barely need to go out anymore, just for
groceries but my gf who goes out daily and loves to cook likes to do this
part, only occasionally do I run to the store to get some things for her. So I
barely get out.

Been meaning to go out on a daily basis but I think I have DSPD [0] and so I
tend to wake up late, sleep really late (or early in the morning). It's
terrible really, I feel like a bum or a teenage kid sleeping like this but
it's like I'm programmed to act like a 3 year old in the morning, the self-
discipline required to get out is insane while I've generally always had a bit
of a spartan lifestyle haha. It boggles my mind how hard it is for me to get
up. And I absolutely can't sleep at night consistently. Even if I wake up at
8AM, work out heavy for 2 hours, spend a day draining my brain concentrating
for hours, meet people for hours and go around town doing groceries and am
physically tired, I can't sleep. And then at 4-5AM it hits me like a train.
Sometimes I'll power through, not sleeping because I know if I sleep at 4,
I'll wake up at 12. So instead I'll try not to sleep and power through until
the evening, and then yes I can finally sleep at night that day.

But then that next day I generally still wake up at 12. Even if I ease into it
and change my sleeping schedule by 1 hour every two days, at some point it
gets reset. Anyway the point of all this is that I tend to wake up shortly
after noon and I just don't want to go out for an hour at that point, all I
want to do is get some work done before I need to clean up, help prepare
dinner, spend time with my gf etc. After sleeping in so late, the last thing I
want to do is spend the first hour walking around outside. So I postpone going
outside to the evening and I never really do, especially if it's dark and cold
like now. In that way it's exactly like you said, a self-imposed prison in the
name of work and saving time. And then a little later it's 12PM and I've still
got hours ahead of me, but there's no way I'm going outside at 3AM. (I used to
as a teenager, but now as an adult I'd just feel like a freak and my gf would
get super worried and want to have 'a talk' if I started doing that haha. Also
I'd be bored out of my mind if it's dark and deserted. Also, no Vitamin D at
night!) Writing all of this down is confronting haha, looks like my life is a
mess.

Still trying to find some balance to all of this. I've been meaning to just
get a regular job again, but I'm genuinely afraid I couldn't do the 9-5
schedule, as I basically went straight into freelance work out of college and
both college and freelance work allowed weird schedules. The hope is that the
pressure to conform to this model for fear of getting fired etc forces me to
keep to the schedule.

Would love any more ideas or experiences if you want to share :)

0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder)

~~~
bigdealjim
This is crazy! I've never heard of DSPD before, but I've explained to my
girlfriend several times (as recently as a couple weeks ago) that no matter
what time I go to bed, I don't really fall into a deep sleep, or fall asleep
at all, until around 4am. I'll either be fully awake tossing and turning or
I'll have a really light sleep. I'll wake up by myself around 11:30 or noon.

I have the same guilt about it as you do, and I'm a total baby about being
woken up early. It's been this way my whole life.

------
tsotha
>So here’s the big question. What does she, or you, or any of us do with all
this time we’re buying? Binge on Netflix shows? Go for a run? Van Ekert’s
answer: “It’s more to dedicate more time to working.”

Meh. It's specialization. It's been happening since everyone figured out Og
makes better clubs than everyone else and he'll make you one if you give him
food. Most of the people reading this site have a skill that brings in $50+
per hour. Why _not_ pay someone to clean your bathroom and use that time for
working?

~~~
timepiece
Now you make $50/hour, wait till commoditization hit your profession and see
your wage dwindle before your own eyes.

~~~
krschultz
If that day comes, who will be better prepared, those that cleaned their own
toilets, or those that used that time for something more productive?

~~~
michaelchisari
Don't underestimate the value in a multitude of skills. When Argentina's
economy collapsed in 2001, I'd prefer to know how to write code, do laundry,
and wash toilets than only knowing how to write code.

~~~
tsotha
>Don't underestimate the value in a multitude of skills.

I'm sure pretty much everybody who hires a cleaning service _knows_ how to
clean a toilet.

~~~
ForHackernews
I went to university with a girl who didn't know how to operate a dishwasher.
At first, I assumed it was because her family had not been wealthy enough to
own a dishwasher; later, I found out it was because they were _so_ wealthy
they had servants who loaded and ran their dishwasher for them.

~~~
wutbrodo
The problem I have with people who say things like this is that these things
are easily Googlable. I didn't "know" how to do laundry until I went to
college (my sister and I had specific chores and laundry was one of hers).
During a fight with my sister when I was still in high school, I recall her
using that as an insult: "You don't even know how to do LAUNDRY".

I needed to do laundry my first week of school: I couldn't (and to this day
can't) even fathom what the phrase "know how to do laundry" meant. Separate
whites and colors (or don't), put the clothes in the machine, and press the
button.......what kind of mental deficiency is required for someone to think
there's an actual gap between "knowing how to do laundry" and "not knowing
how".

Loading a dishwasher and cleaning a toilet would seem to be similar. The only
gap between "knowing" and "not knowing" is perhaps three seconds of Googling
(in case there's some pitfall about what you can and can't put in there).

~~~
michaelchisari
_The only gap between "knowing" and "not knowing" is perhaps three seconds of
Googling_

Have you ever worked tech support and had to help a lawyer or doctor set up
their router?

It's not about mental deficiency.

~~~
wutbrodo
That example is not relevant in the slightest. Setting up a router quite
clearly requires prior knowledge, even if that knowledge is something implicit
like "familiarity with navigating Web UIs" or "general familiarity with basic
networking concepts".

Neither of those are applicable to doing laundry. There's literally no
knowledge required other than "clothes and detergent go into machine". Hell,
you don't even have to know WHERE to put detergent because machines are
variable enough that they usually just tell you where to put detergent.

~~~
michaelchisari
So nobody has ever shrunk clothes before? Or ruined whites? Or mixed ammonia
and bleach to clean a floor?

~~~
wutbrodo
Honestly, that stuff is a lot harder to do than you seem to think it is. My gf
has never even bothered separating whites and colors and she's never ruined
any article of clothing in the laundry. By contrast, setting up a router is
not something you can just feel your way through without _any_ prior knowledge
(even prior knowledge unrelated to that specific model). Shit, without prior
knowledge you couldn't even get to the router config page.

> Or mixed ammonia and bleach to clean a floor?

The first part of your comment was a reasonable point, but what the hell are
you talking about here? You do your laundry using bleach and ammonia....on
your floor?

------
rdlecler1
Most of these benefits are being subsidized by VC money (and pension fund
LPs). The only reason I enjoyed my $2.25 LyftLine rides last month was because
Lyft was burning through their VC money trying to build enough supply/demand
to get better scale. Thank you California Teachers Pension Fund! Even with
20-30% markups these companies will not make money without big assumptions
about moving down the cost curve. When the VC party end for these companies,
it will end for us too, and then we'll have to go to the store to buy our own
damn gluten free kale! Until then ladies and gentlemen, we live like
aristocrats!

------
postmeta
I think the intelligentsia do better when they have some manual labor in their
lives too. I posit that the gig economy is just a modern take on classism and
indentured servitude. We would be better served to improve robotics,
automation and efficiency rather than grow a servant class (again).

~~~
zem
whenever i read articles like this, i can't help but think how much beneficial
pressure a basic income would exert on a system like this. when no one _has_
to do your unpleasant/tedious tasks because it's that or starve, there's
suddenly an incentive for those jobs to pay much more, or be automated as
efficiently as possible. i can see a post-basic-income equivalent of
instacart, for example, being the one person who goes out and does grocery
shopping for an entire building, but gets a lot of their other chores done for
them as a quid pro quo.

------
physcab
I think people are vastly over-estimating how much time they are saving using
these "on-demand" apps. For a mom who is trying to juggle 2 children, yes, I
can see this as a huge help. But for the vast majority of the target
demographic (young, single-ish, urban upper middle class folks), we're not
gaining hours in a day. We're experiencing instant gratification. We're
stimulating the reward centers in our brain that remind us how great it is to
be 2 again: press a button, get a prize.

I recently started coming to the realization that the "on-demand" lifestyle is
having a much more detrimental affect on my life enjoyment. When I'm consumed
with messaging, pressing buttons, working, social media, filling my head with
anxiety of the next thing, I am losing myself in the future. It takes an
enormous amount of effort to be mindful. Cooking, engaging with others,
sitting in silence and letting thoughts bubble up, and even chores. These are
all little moments that keep me grounded and self-aware and I've think that
has made me a better person.

~~~
wutbrodo
> For a mom who is trying to juggle 2 children, yes, I can see this as a huge
> help. But for the vast majority of the target demographic (young, single-
> ish, urban upper middle class folks), we're not gaining hours in a day.

Wat. The mom in this example may find apps like this more _necessary/useful_,
but how does it save her more time than it saves the single person? I got back
from the symphony a couple of hours ago and need to get some laundry detergent
and other sundries: instead of wasting a good chunk of the part of my day that
overlaps with regular hours (when concerts, restaurants, parties, parks,
meetups, shows, etc are all open), I spent 4 minutes at 11 pm ordering that
stuff before going to bed. Perhaps if your free time consists of sitting on
your couch staring at a blank wall, then maximizing free time is not
particularly useful, but for those of us who actually do things in our free
time, making chores more efficient is a no-brainer. (Though in my case this
particular example is a little less salient because I live within half a mile
of multiple walgreens so I can usually pick sundries up on my way home. The
general principle still applies).

------
lnlyplnt
As a Current Alfred customer in NYC I can say that the service has been a huge
help, and not in the "shut in" way suggested by this article.

Having my laundry, groceries and packages taken care of for me allows me to
maximize my weekends.

I think one of the other reasons Alfred is so useful is that it removes 100%
of the cognitive load of chores. Services like flycleaners and instacart are
actually only marginally helpful since the user still needs to think about
laundry and groceries.

~~~
blackguardx
This is such a glowing review that it almost seems like an advertisement.
If/when I get customers, I hope they are this positive about my business.

~~~
lnlyplnt
I can assure you that I am no shill. One thing I will say is that it took a
few weeks to get everything "in the flow" (socks go in this drawer, wash this
but not that etc) , but once they know your routine it's quite incredible to
watch everything happen on autopilot.

------
beachstartup
_> “We’re trying to remove the taboo and the guilt that you should have to do
it,” says Alfred’s CEO_

every time i use one of these services i feel a bit guilty. twofold; guilty
that i have someone literally serving me, and that i'm too lazy to do it
myself.

i still use them occasionally though. laundry every 2 weeks because i don't
have in-unit, and occasional food delivery when i'm feeling especially lazy -
i try to just call local restaurants directly though. i also stopped using
homejoy because quite frankly it felt too weird to have someone cleaning my
tiny place for me.

> _When signing up, customers can choose the option of not seeing their
> Alfred_

haha. wow. i guess that's one way of dealing with it.

~~~
Turing_Machine
This isn't criticism, just curiosity: do you feel guilty when you pay someone
to cut your hair or dispose of your garbage (assuming the latter service isn't
included in your housing... that varies, of course).

Those are both things that would have been done by servants in the past, but
that most people still have done today rather than doing themselves.

One advantage of having a buzz cut is that it's easy to cut my own hair, but
when I had another hair style I didn't feel guilty about getting it cut. I
hated that it consumed my time, but that's another thing.

~~~
danans
I can't speak for the GP, but I think some of the guilt from realizing that
the people who perform these jobs often have a very low standard of living and
very little job security or life prospects.

Of course there have always been poor service workers in that situation, and
as a society we've haven't really cared much about it (i.e. decades long
minimum wage stagnation). People are talking about it now because of the stark
contrast against the VC-fueled valuations of these companies, and the rapidly
growing inequality of places like the Bay Area and NYC.

~~~
nknighthb
Median garbage collector income in the US is close to median personal income,
and they don't even get out of the truck on most stops anymore. They're also
widely unionized with substantial benefits.

I haven't bothered having anyone cut my hair in years, but yeah, people
working at SuperCuts make crap, in much the same way and for the same reason
that people working at McDonalds make crap.

------
invalidOrTaken
From the other side:

I worked for one of the on-demand valet services in SF for a few months a few
months ago. Basically I loitered around on the street all day, waiting for my
company-issued iPhone to send me running or biking to either pick up someone's
car or return it.

What was driven (ba-dum) home to me was how buildings in a city are built
defensively, to keep out the riff-raff (myself being a member of such).

The implications are somewhat worrying.

------
normloman
"Mallon is a 26-year-old in New York City who works as a branding sales
consultant to tech companies, regularly working from 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. "

What? Who the hell thinks this is healthy? This person is literally filling
all their waking life with work. Even if you love the shit out of your job,
you're neglecting your mental and physical health by working that long. (And
in all likelihood, she doesn't love the shit out her job. You'll be pressed to
find just one person on Earth who'd be happy spending every hour of their day
"branding". And I'm a marketing manager!)

And it's not like this person doesn't have other options. She makes enough
money to live in a fancy San Francisco apartment and hire on-demand services
to do everything. So she's making bank. But all that money's just going to
keep up an expensive lifestyle that she doesn't even have time to enjoy.

I just hope she's got a plan. Maybe save as much as possible and retire early.
Otherwise, what is she doing with her life?

~~~
unimportant
Welcome to NY, where everybody outside of Brooklyn is a high achiever who
thinks it's necessary to fill his life with as much work as possible, as
otherwise someone else might get his job / he might miss out on a promotion.

------
femto
> Many services promote themselves as life-expanding — there > to free up your
> time so you can spend it connecting with > the people you care about, not
> standing at the post > office with strangers. Rinse’s ad shows a couple
> chilling > at a park, their laundry being washed by someone, > somewhere
> beyond the picture’s frame.

A case of letting the destination (free time for socialising) overrule the
journey (social interaction in your everyday life)?

For example, if you go to a laundromat regularly or catch a bus regularly, you
eventually end up seeing the same people and might even end up making friends
with them. Maybe even good enough friends that you coordinate your
journeys/tasks in order to catch up?

Getting philosophical, an awful lot of things, including life, can be viewed
in terms of "nodes and edges". In the case of life, why put so much emphasis
on the nodes (the goal) whilst most of your time is spent on the edges (the
journeys)?

~~~
JohnBooty

      > For example, if you go to a laundromat regularly or   
      > catch a bus regularly, you eventually end up seeing the
      > same people and might even end up making friends with 
      > them. Maybe even good enough friends that you coordinate 
      > your journeys/tasks in order to catch up?
    

You can make friends anywhere. Even in stores! My mother met one of her best
friends when she was a customer at the supermarket where her friend worked.

And that's cool when it happens, but come on. It's pretty rare. Even in a
small town, everybody-knows-each-other kind of place. Stuff like that has got
to be one of the worst ways to make friends _ever._

Compare that with the amount of friends one makes by doing volunteer work,
joining a book club, going to local meetups, going to a dog park, etc.

You want to make friends, do volunteer work. The sort of people who do
volunteer work are (duh) generally great people. The worst thing that can
happen is that you don't make any friends but you still do some good stuff for
the world.

~~~
yojo
I think it's not just friendship, it's a feeling of connectedness and
community that comes from knowing people in your neighborhood and being known.

For five years I lived in a rundown SF unit with no laundry on site. Every
week my wife and I would drop our clothes at a nearby family run wash and
fold. Over years of little interactions we started to develop a semblance of
friendship and real fondness for the owner. Twice a week I got a nice
pleasant/personal experience, and that was from outsourcing a single chore.

I also use services like Sprig/Google Shopping Express/Amazon Prime, because
they are awesome, convenient, and cheap. But as a result I rarely buy from the
nearby corner store, and have not developed personal connections from any of
these transactions. I have saved money and time, but it has cost me in social
satisfaction. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

As you point out, there might be active interventions to try and replace this
connection (e.g. volunteering), but the default has shifted from "get to know
the people around you through transactions" to "receive goods and services
anonymously."

~~~
JohnBooty

      > As you point out, there might be active interventions 
      > to try and replace this connection (e.g. volunteering), 
      > but the default has shifted from "get to know the people 
      > around you through transactions"
    

I grew up in (and recently bought a home in) a place where we were very close
to our neighbors, but we were a mile or two away from the nearest retail
stuff. I'm completely into the idea of "get to know the people around you" \-
it's actually the "through transactions" part that doesn't resonate with me!

In my head I'm like, "I shovel my neighbor's snow and build snow forts with
their kids. Why would I need to be friends with the dude who works at the
convenience store too? If I am, great, but it's not exactly a pressing need in
order to form a connection with my surroundings..."

But I realize that's not everybody's situation. I have lived in places where
neighbors didn't typically befriend each other. I _definitely_ realize that
friendly neighbors are a luxury. In my experiences, renters don't typically
attempt to form friendships like homeowners do since renting is more of a
transitory thing. And owning a home is definitely not advisable for everybody,
nor attainable for everybody.

------
marcosdumay
As a Brazilian I can say: welcome to an unequal society, US. Yes, that's one
of the symptoms, and if you look at the lives of those people serving, it's
hearth-breaking.

------
nether
If anyone in the Los Angeles area wants to stop being a shutin, I'm open to
take people on hikes. There's everything from short nature walks with nice
waterfalls, to epic mountain death marches in the area and I'd be happy to
guide anyone: nodus3@gmail.com

------
Procrastes
It seems the obvious unserved need here is a way to outsource the actual work.
Maybe I can create a business model around sending someone to your job to act
as your proxy.

InstaLackey.com and ImposterPool.com are both available...

* I have to admit that I just spent five minutes struggling with the urge to build a MVP instead of hitting "Add Comment."

------
sixQuarks
This video called "Seamless: No Human" was made as a parody of the shut-in
economy, and showed up on Reddit the other day. It's actually pretty funny,
but the craziest thing is that the top comments on Reddit all said it's a
service they would want to use in real-life.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD13GrccRPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD13GrccRPw)

------
igonvalue
In a sufficiently frictionless economy, people will hire each other to do the
things they'd rather not do themselves. This is generally acknowledged as a
net positive for society[0], and surely the author doesn't manufacture her own
electronics, build her own house, or grow her own food. What's so
extraordinary about delivery services?

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage)

------
joezydeco
I'm curious as to what's going to happen when this group starts having babies.
Time to write a business plan I guess.

~~~
Turing_Machine
Hmm... it seems to me that childcare is another of the "formerly done by
servants" things that people have never stopped outsourcing to others.

That's not saying there's not an opportunity there. Daycare operations still
seem to be mostly "artisanal", or at least operating on a fairly small scale.
The big problem you're going to face is that people are incredibly protective
of their children (and rightly so... those who aren't haven't left their genes
behind :-)). Food is pretty personal, but most people will think nothing of
stopping into a strange restaurant and eating the food, but they would never
drop off their kids at a random storefront.

~~~
saiya-jin
seeing its parents so rarely, they wouldn't be exactly a role model parents
for their kids. could be much worse, or course, but having kids is arguably
the most important thing in lives of many people, so if doing it, let's do it
properly and raise (at least try hard, i mean HARD) a confident, balanced
issue-free happy people. i've got the feeling this planet & mankind needs more
of those compared to uber-competitive self-centered workoholics.

------
Lancey
Having worked as a delivery guy, I always find it weird that everyone points
to this "shut-in economy" as representing some sort of classism. You can do
deliveries for Amazon or drive for Uber while also utilizing these services
yourself. It'd depend a lot on tips (techies don't tip well so this might be a
problem in San Francisco), but it's not like you're stuck on one side of the
fence here.

------
irascible
I was a shut in before it was cool...

~~~
saiya-jin
it's not cool...

------
jaza
It's an eye-opener to me, seeing the extremes at which this way of life has
apparently arrived... for one group of people in one place in the whole world.
Seriously, this article pretends all of humanity in 2015 lives this way. It
doesn't! There are approx. 7 billion people outside the Bay Area bubble
universe! (Perhaps the author, a resident of the bubble herself, has forgotten
this?).

Sure makes me feel old-fashioned, that I and everyone I know still make 95% of
purchases offline, still buy groceries at a physical supermarket, still go to
the park for a walk every day, still meet new people offline every day, still
do household chores, etc. And I live in Sydney (also mentioned in the article
- and incidentally, also SF's sister city), not a backward or a disconnected
place either.

SF, like Sydney, has good weather and a beautiful outdoors. Pity that so many
SF'ers don't seem to be making the most of it.

~~~
kilbuz
Many anecdotes here, and no real data. Much like all of the world does not
live this way, I assure you all of SF does not live this way.

As one who does "get out" from time to time, I can assure you there are a
healthy number of people socializing all over the city. There are also plenty
of people who make the most of the outdoors. Try visiting a well-marked trail
within 20 miles of SF on a weekend. Not exactly "away from it all."

Agree with you that this article picks a very narrow view and creates false
dichotomies.

------
prawn
I feel like this is a natural response to our lives having us interact with so
many people. Some might like the atmosphere that comes from crowd experiences
(sports, parades, etc) but we're generally not especially comfortable around
strangers.

I enjoy interacting with family, friends and colleagues, but less so random
people passing on the street.

We evolved in groups in which you might recognise or know detail about
everyone around you. People often talk about tribes or townships of 150
people.

We're shutting in not from everyone, but from those outside that circle of 150
people.

I think our future virtual lives (building on current social networks) will
allow us to very carefully manage our interactions with others. We will be
somewhat insulated from the masses whether they are abroad or down the street.

------
jamesknelson
This article made me think of the short story Manna:

[http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm](http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm)

The only difference being that instead of being directed with headsets, people
are now being directed with apps.

I wonder how long until the world reaches chapter 3?

------
nether
Wow, the meal delivery is like American dabbawala:
[http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/indian-food-
delive...](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/indian-food-delivery-
service-envy-fedex-n156291)

------
nazgulnarsil
Shaming introverts. Nothing like hitting someone who can't fight back.

~~~
saiya-jin
I am an itnrovert, but believe me, what this article describes (albeit maybe a
bit overblown) is a sad story even from my perspective. Introvert != being
inside surrounded by 4 walls. In fact, for people like me, being in nature &
mountains, alone or with friends, has amazing mental soothing effects

------
moultano
Instacart, Handy, and DoorDash have totally changed the experience of being a
new parent. Nothing makes you want to pay someone to solve your problems like
not sleeping for a month.

------
prostoalex
> They released a study monitoring the social behavior of 169 people making
> their first forays online. The web-surfers started talking less with family
> and friends ...

Does that factor in the amount of communication happening online via
messengers, chats or just Facebook comments on someone's live events? It seems
that at least portion of this communication has shifted online, not got
supplanted by online.

------
halov
From my perspective, it's generally the working culture (long working hours)
of the country/city/communities that make people "shut-in" \- not the fact
they order online. What choice you have if you work from 8 am to 9 pm? I
assume delivery guys would be "shut-in" as well if their job obligations
wouldn't take them outdoors.

------
graeme
I dislike the sharing economy term. I'm an occasional Airbnb host, and
frequent guest. That, to me, is sharing, or frequently is, especially if
you're only renting a room.

Almost all of the rest is now. "Spare capacity" economy, "arbitrage economy"
or "serving economy" would be better terms.

------
jmzbond
I agree with many of the points in this article, though I think it's
interesting that this strikes a chord. Because this is just a more micro
version of the macro-economic chase for comparative advantage and efficiency,
where we outsource production to developing countries, whether it be clothing
or call centers, or whatever. Same end goal right? Cheaper than doing it
yourself, implying that you free up your own resources to do... well more
[service oriented/ white collar] work. I guess the one thing about the shut-in
economy is that if we can think about these social issues, then there's hope
we can also think about slave labor, or child labor, etc. when they are
employed by major businesses (the original "apps") we buy from all the time.

------
lucio
The point of view of the author is left-depressive. Maybe that's the reason
why the comments get into depression issues

Having an easy job-opportunity as a delivery-person, or Uber-driver or
freelance-(anything) is a good thing, not a bad thing. If you enjoy doing
shopping maybe is a good thing that you can make shopping for others as a
living.

Who is a happier? The person cleaning the apartment while you're working or
you?

If you're getting home at 1am, stressed, unhappy, already thinking of
tomorrow's work, and he/she is getting home to share a nice family dinner...
Who is happier?

------
niels_olson
The Albert service seems ripe for abuse. People unknown entering your home? At
least a full time maid is a traceable person... Seems like the opportunities
for an airbnb-style break-in are rampant.

~~~
etjossem
As I understand it, these are actual employees of Alfred. No different from
any other person you let into your home to do work.

------
cafebeen
An interesting article, but I wonder about the parts about social class. They
argue that "social class can be defined by the chores you don’t do" and that
"luxuries usually afforded to one-percenters now stretch to the urban upper-
middle class". Presumably these people are still working jobs to pay for their
lifestyle (perhaps spending their freed up time working), and one person's job
is another person's chore. Is the difference is that tech workers tend to
enjoy their jobs?

------
jeffyee
Obviously these services are useful and can save you time now, but they are,
generally speaking, rather expensive. That means you end up saving less and
probably will be working for more years rather than retiring early.

I think it's a fallacy to think these "saved hours" translate directly into
additional paid work. Most of the folks using these services are in salaried
jobs, and don't benefit financially by working an extra few hours a week.

------
jokoon
Urbanization, clerk type jobs and the information age discourage us to have
human contact. But it's expected since in apartment buildings you tend to be
overwhelmed with the amount of people who are around you: you wish you could
talk and meet with some of them, but it will never happen, because urbanism
tend to de-socialize people: apartments are build like prison cells.

Other services like uber, couchsurfing, airbnb, meetup, want to do the
opposite.

------
KathrynShantz1
What happens when shut-ins have families - and consequently don't know other
parents or kids? Things start to go downhill from a life experience
perspective.

~~~
eddy_chan
I actually think a lot less people would be shut-ins if they had kids.

All those 'menial chores' are actually become interesting because you're 'not
just doing the grocery shopping anymore'. You're taking you kids shopping so
they can explore the supermarket with them. They'll ask questions about what
you buy and why you buy it. Of course they'll nag you to buy something for
them as well.

Kids will nag you to go out to the park, to the museum or whatever other local
attraction there is and along the way you'll get social interaction which
helps balance things out.

------
unimportant
I'm living in a developing country and I'm glad online grocery delivery
exists.

The nearest supermarket is 30min walk away, taking a cab would cost money and
time too (I don't have a car) and the nearer wet market (about 15min walk
away) is just a huge mess with everybody looking unhappy, prices needing
haggling and quality being much lower.

My quality of living has gone up a lot since then and I'm saving a lot of time
as well.

------
mooreds
How is this different than me hiring a handyman to put up the shelves bought 2
months ago that I never found the time to put up?

Is it different in scale or in kind?

~~~
IkmoIkmo
In kind... probably not. Perhaps if you'd have said 'fix some electric work
that I couldn't do', in that case it'd be different as this article describes
work that anyone could do. e.g. they'll talk about expensive $5.000 a month
apartments having awesome functional kitchens installed, yet everyone orders
food.

In scale... well the handyman is a one time thing. But it seems a lot of new
tech workers making $100k a year are fine spending $5k on ordering dinner 5
days a week for $20. That's kind of weird compared to all the centuries
before. But at some point it might become more like the drycleaner: a service
outside your home that's more expensive, but more convenient and not
necessarily much fun. Perhaps cooking will become a once a week hobby type of
thing, with everyday food not becoming a case of preparing lunch or dinner,
but rather a case of choosing fashionable and exotic lunch or dinner, much
like shopping for clothing. Who knows.

~~~
krschultz
Plenty of non tech workers order food every night for dinner. Plenty of non
tech workers have cleaning services. That has existed for 40+ years. Changing
it from phone ordering to online ordering doesn't change it that much.

Grocery delivery and some of the other things are a bit newer, but they are
also more niche.

What has changed is the employment relationship between the people doing the
work and the companies. You used to hire a cleaning company and they had
employees that came out, now you hire an independent contractor via Handy. To
me it seems all supply side and not really demand side. This article is all
about the demand side.

------
bfrog
How sick Capitalism can be in twisting what we think we need away from what's
actually good for us. The Rat Race is so very very real.

------
serve_yay
I prefer to just not be so busy. Busyness is not a virtue. But then, I guess
with that attitude I'll be working for Alfred one day.

------
raverbashing
Yes, I'm afraid the world is going on a direction where there will be two
kinds of people: those serving coffee at Starbucks and those going there to
order coffee and work off their laptops.

(Or maybe it's even worse and they'll stay at home and order their cups
online)

It's a dystopian analogy, but one that's sounding more real every day.

------
roghummal
You'd think that ordering from one service ("WindowRun") around the same
times, the same days, would deliver a familiar face now and then. Nah.

People are abundant, flexible, and most of all disposable.

------
jhoechtl
“NEVER LEAVE HOME AGAIN.”

[http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html](http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html)

------
redwood
Anyone else having trouble with Medium articles this week --- menu items
transparently displaying _over_ the article? (Android/"internet" app)

------
natmaster
But then when the 'servants' are replaced by robots people will complain that
'jobs' are lost.

------
zby
It was not in that article - but I wander how do the guys using it feel about
the security implications of it.

------
Tsugumo
VR headsets will exacerbate the issue, and make it more popular in media.

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BadassFractal
Any Alfred users in SF yet? Thoughts? Seems interesting.

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lucio
Please, please stop the freaking vacuum cleaner...

why, god, why?

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seeingfurther
We are becoming a society of eloi and morlocks

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carsongross
A truly interesting article. Thank you, killwhitey.

Wait, what?

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timepiece
Good job Lauren ... I really enjoyed reading the article ... NYT caliber
indeed but I wish that you could give more space to workers so they could
express their points of view regarding the whole situation.

~~~
pauldbau
Seconded - there are some interesting/challenging social dilemmas ahead for
the 1st world in particular.

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timepiece
The lingering question for me now seems to be if these people can afford
purchasing the services of Alfred & Co, why didn't they pick or hire a maid to
do all the domestic chores & errands for them???

