

Ask HN: What's better for long-run productivity: caffeine or no caffeine? - Lorenzo45

I&#x27;m a 19 year-old iOS developer and just starting to get a taste of the &#x27;work grind&#x27;. I&#x27;ve been trying to minimize my caffeine intake to avoid building a tolerance and dependency on caffeine, and instead try to get a good night&#x27;s sleep and nap whenever I need to and can. However, I&#x27;ve noticed that many of my coworkers at my internship consume multiple cups of coffee daily, and recently read the Stackoverflow 2015 survey that said programmers drink an average of 2.75 cups of coffee a day.<p>I&#x27;m starting to wonder if avoiding caffeine or just letting myself become a regular coffee drinker is better for my productivity in the long run. I have noticed that coffee does give me a slight productivity boost, but I&#x27;m not sure if it&#x27;s worth the tradeoff of becoming dependent on it.
======
nikdaheratik
Getting enough sleep is the most important factor in productivity for
programming or other "brain" work. Caffeine is not a real substitute for
sleep.

When and whether to take in caffeine depends somewhat on your own situation. I
am not a morning person. Morning caffeine helps a great deal as far as getting
into the correct mindset, and I end up drinking a few cups of French press (or
a double espresso) in the mornings and don't usually need to take any for the
rest of the day. I sometimes take tea in the afternoon, but some of that is
because I enjoy the break rather than a need to manage alertness.

I also worked previously at a company where half of the programmers would take
an actual 30-60 minute lunch together everyday and this break in the middle
did alot to help both the desire to be at work and actual productivity as
there was rarely an "afternoon slump."

IMO, the best way to ensure productivity is to get enough sleep and take small
regular breaks of ~5-10 mins every couple of hours, whether to get coffee/tea
or just a drink of water and a short walk. A lunch break is also good if you
can manage it. The mind works more efficiently if you don't force it to tackle
too much at a time. Stepping away from the screen for a few minutes and just
walking lets your conscious mind rest while still letting subconscious mind
work on the problem.

------
davismwfl
If you haven't started it yet, I say don't. I am effectively addicted to
caffeine and while it has its purposes it isn't a good think. In the past,
every few months I'd stop drinking all caffeine for 1-2 months then I'd slowly
wind up starting to drink it again. I haven't done this in the past year,
which has sucked.

You can be highly functional and productive without caffeine. Taking a nap and
getting better sleep is far better then being addicted to coffee or pop.

~~~
Lorenzo45
Thanks for your insight, this was kind of what I was hoping to hear. If you
wouldn't mind, could you expand a bit on the negative effects you've
experienced due to regularly drinking caffeine, and possibly even some good
ones?

~~~
zamalek
I was previously borderline addicted and one big negative is: I found it
impossible to concentrate. After 3 cups my mind would become restless. It's
the reason I quit because I couldn't get any work done.

Get citrus fruit on your desk, as well as bananas. That will keep you going
for _ages._

~~~
davismwfl
Thanks for that info. Citrus eh? Hadn't heard that one, bananas I have just
started eating more regularly. I'll try the citrus too and see how that goes.
I wonder sometimes if the caffeine I consume is part of the reason I sometimes
have trouble focusing.

------
joeevans1000
You never get anything for nothing. Regular coffee drinking adds nothing to
your productivity. I can tell you this from years and years of drinking it.
Any increase in productivity will be compensated for by an exact opposite
later.

Even worse, regular drinking makes you dependent on it, and, although I've
been spared this one, stopping can lead to headaches.

I have noticed that some of the most successful programmers I know don't drink
coffee at all. I think they also likely lead moderate lifestyles with the
right amount of sleep.

Now, that said, the occasional use of coffee can be a great thing, in my
opinion, for short term boosts. These moments might be for things like jet
lag... that sort of thing. Also, it can be great for safe driving if you are
tired. Used in this way, caffeine can be beneficial.

~~~
Menge
> Any increase in productivity will be compensated for by an exact opposite
> later.

But mammals work that way, we have a sleep and wake cycle because in our
average state we would be luggage. Similarly, many engineers have a few
fruitful hours a day together with meetings and administrative things where
sleepiness and passivity are better than awareness that could lead to
aggressiveness and impatience.

My own experience is that colleagues that strategically drink lots of caffeine
are good on new development projects. I would be more cautious on other roles
as caffeine inhibits peripheral thinking. For example, on caffeine, you may
too quickly discard causes in a core analysis or overlook a compatibility
issue in a change. You may also make mistakes in new development but mistaken
progress is on average better than over caution in new development.

------
delbel
I recently went 60 days without coffee and had only one cup of tea or chai a
day. Basically my productivity went down. Then one day, out of desperation to
get work done, drank a single cup of strong coffee and subsequently had mild
insomnia that night, but, my productivity levels went up. I really enjoyed the
coffee so I went out and bought some very light trader joe's beans and some
decaf. I mix the two. I don't have sleep problems and enjoy my coffee in the
morning. I try to not drink coffee on Sunday but I find I have a cup right now
while getting some client work done.

~~~
Lorenzo45
This is what I'm afraid of, missing out on potential productivity. There may
be a difference between people who stop drinking coffee regularly versus
people who never started, but I agree that there is a good balance that can be
attained with coffee.

------
goldbeck
Preeeeetty much everyone in our society drinks caffeine [citation needed].
Personally, I find a significant difference in my level of focus between a day
in which I had a cup of coffee in the morning and one in which I did not. This
is true for me regardless of any dependence.

My advice is to keep tabs on how much you're consuming and consider to giving
yourself off days when there isn't work to be done. Definitely try and get a
good night's sleep too (coffee late in the day isn't great for this, so worth
keeping that in mind).

Most importantly, figure out what works well for _you_.

~~~
Lorenzo45
This is the answer I was looking for, thanks! I'm thinking the long-term
productivity increase from small amounts of coffee is certainly attainable
without developing any major side effects.

~~~
altcognito
Remember that the productivity will tail off as your resistance increases as
well. You're probably better off exercising and taking in moderate amounts of
caffeine from time to time.

~~~
mcgoo
This. For me, exercise is the gift that keeps giving.

Caffeine works for a couple of days and then becomes a requirement. Any
ongoing benefit is difficult to discern.

There are other things that make a huge difference to productivity for me :-
\- have a plan for the day \- make sure to work on stuff that is actually
important \- look back at the day and see where time was wasted or I went off
track and think about how to do better next time \- stop working at a fixed
time (with a little leeway if I am really in the zone and enjoying it.) This
leaves me excited to get to work in the morning. Scheherazade effect :-)

------
caw
I'm going to add my anecdata in here -- mid 20s, and I do not consume
caffeine. I don't drink coffee, tea, or soda regularly. Nor do I drink energy
drinks. No caffeine isn't a new thing, I've just never really drank it.

I haven't tried drinking caffeine regularly enough that I can tell whether
there's a productivity boost to taking it. I'd like to say I'm pretty
productive -- previous job was ranking me in top review buckets for my pay
grade(s) for multiple years.

One thing I've noticed is that I'm a morning person, my best hours are
8am-12pm. Most of my coworkers (coffee drinkers) are afternoon people. Not
sure if that's a trend or just programmer biases. I have noticed that pretty
much all of my caffeine consuming co-workers need to have their coffee before
I can ask them anything mildly complex. That could just be ritualistic
behavior (get into work, make coffee, don't think about work until then), but
could also be caffeine dependency.

------
ivraatiems
I'll add my voice here to those who don't drink caffeine. It's not that I have
specifically avoided it, but I never picked up the habit, and I've never found
a particular benefit when I have tried it.

In my opinion, the idea that more work is better work is one of the great
misconceptions of modern, Western culture (it's not a universal one, I know,
but it certainly applies in a lot of places). If caffeine would allow me to do
some not insignificant but not enormous amount more, but otherwise makes my
life less pleasant through reliance on it, withdrawal symptoms, lack of sleep
and cost, then I'm not terribly inclined to bother.

------
green-in-gold
I'm investigating this very question myself. I think it's probably something
each person has to figure out for themselves. Anecdotally, the mathematician
Paul Erdos took amphetamine (not coffee but same idea) every day and
considered it crucial to his work. Also, I've been trying drinking only small
amounts of coffee: 10g beans + 160g water that I make myself every morning
with pour over. And it's great! I can definitely feel it, but I don't get
jittery/anxious/unable to focus like I used to gulping down big cups of
coffee.

------
dustinls
If you decide to go the caffeine route, take 3:1 mg of l-theanine with it, (so
50 mg caffeine, take 150 l-theanine).

It helps counter any nervousness, restlessness, and jitteriness caused by
caffeine.

Naps, exercise, and a healthy diet are a better alternative though. When you
are using caffeine your productivity will be riddled with peaks and crashes.

I quit caffeine, cut out gluten, and even meats (except fish) and was more
productive than ever, but eventually got back to old habits, but I do plan on
quitting caffeine as soon as I can take a break from working for a week.

------
Bahamut
I intake a lot of caffeine, but I also do something novel - there are days
where I consume no (or very little) caffeine. Caffeine is useful, but I don't
like to rely on it.

~~~
Lorenzo45
I've been considering doing something like this as well, how are you able to
prevent yourself from becoming dependent on it?

~~~
Bahamut
Being addicted to anything is simply something I dislike strongly - I have
learned to control addictions by simply taking control of doing only what I
want to do.

------
partisan
I usually drink a couple of cups of green or black tea per day, usually with
honey. At some point, when I was in the office, I was drinking up to 4 cups of
tea per day. I was miserable at work, tired for other reasons, and felt like I
needed it. I was probably pretty dependent on it at that time.

I understand very well how you might end up drinking a lot caffeinated
beverages, but I wonder if you can have a placebo effect by drinking water and
taking a quick walk outside instead?

~~~
Lorenzo45
Yes tea is a good option, I've done a bit of reading on L-Theanine and tried
some caffeine pills paired with L-Theanine with fairly good results.
Supposedly it negates the negative effects of caffeine and you don't build a
tolerance to it, but I'm not entirely convinced.

I really like your water and exercise idea though, that would certainly be a
nice substitute!

------
mydpy
I work out every morning and don't regularly drink coffee unless it's in my
morning protein shake (it may sound gross but it's yummy and efficient).

This produces two nice effects: (1) I have no caffeine dependency but still
feel energized throughout the day and (2) the effects of coffee are stronger
when I really need a boost.

I promise if you take care of your body your work will improve in the long-
term.

~~~
mydpy
Note: I don't think there is anything wrong with a daily cup of coffee.
However, many people in our field abuse our mind and bodies in order to meet
deadlines. I don't advise this.

------
neilellis
This may illuminate the discussion somewhat:

[http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm](http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm)

Productivity is not the amount of work you produce it is how fast and well you
achieve your goals. Worth remembering that too.

------
methodover
Are we starting to worry about freaking coffee intake now?!

If you like coffee, drink it. If you have problems with insomnia, try cutting
it. If it helps, there you go, you get to decide if coffee is more important
to you than insomnia. Most people probably won't get insomnia from drinking
coffee.

------
iovar
Drink tea.

It has a milder, but longer lasting effect. It's also less likely to cause a
'violent' bowel movement :) .

Personally, I used to drink coffee day and night, while now I only drink tea
after 7 or so, PM.

------
PebblesHD
I'm not sure about the environment you work in but the enterprise office
(Bank) I'm in at the moment has a monumental caffeine intake. I've had a
problem with energy drinks since high school which has carried on into my
later life but this is just me. I find I work best on an if needed basis, I
won't just have a coffee or Rockstar or something if I don't need it, just if
I feel myself dropping off, usually in the afternoon.

------
Gustomaximus
Something which seems benificial is not have a morning coffee, and have one
after lunch. I found the morning good coffee would give the peak/slump effect.
While after lunch a coffee seems to be a good way to avoid lunch coma.

