
Wine Tech Upstart Drops Smart Bottle on a $300B Industry - acdanger
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-28/kuvee-to-be-keurig-of-wine-smart-bottle-meets-300-billion-industry
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ThePhysicist
So if I understand correctly, I would not only need to buy the 200 $ "smart
bottle" to drink wine, but could also only use it with specialized "wine
cartridges"? Honestly, this sounds more like something that the printer
industry would come up with.

And it keeps getting better: Using Wifi (!), the bottle sends me information
about the wine that I'm about to drink to my smartphone. You mean, like a
label? And it also knows when I opened it so that I can rate the wine I'm
drinking, again using Wifi?

Probably I'm just getting too old for all this, but I think some things are
just fine they way there are and don't need to get any "smarter". A glass
bottle with a cork (be it wooden, plastic or glass) is an almost perfect
solution for storing wine already: It can be produced at mass and at very low
cost, can be kept for decades and can be recycled. It is also easy to
transport, hard to break, (reasonably) opaque to UV light and still allows the
wine inside to "breathe" (again, depending on the type of cork used).

If you are really worried about your wine starting to oxidize and ferment
after opening it, simply put it in the refrigerator, which will slow that
process significantly. Alternatively, you could transfer the leftover quantity
to a smaller "dumb" bottle (make sure it's compatible with your bottle's
interface though ;)), which will minimize the amount of air in the bottle and
keep the wine from going bad.

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danieltillett
I am with you all the way except for the cork. Here in Australia we have
almost 100% converted over to the far superior Stelvin screw tops [1]. The
only time I have to get out my corkscrew is when I drink European wine.

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_cap_(wine)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_cap_\(wine\))

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ThePhysicist
Yes that's a valid point, glass or screw caps are also used increasingly in
Europe now, but cork remains in heavy use especially for the pricier wines. In
France (and many other countries) it would be very difficult to sell a "good"
wine with a screw top, as people just expect the cork as part of the "user
experience".

~~~
danieltillett
There was quite a lot of initial consumer resistance when first introduced,
but over time we all got used to it. Even very expensive wines uses screw caps
these days - not getting wine that is “corked” (i.e. tastes like wet
newspaper) anymore is fantastic. Screwcaps really are a superior way to seal
wine.

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crygin
This is bizarre. Insofar as this is solving a "problem", it's essentially
solved by a Coravin, and I never thought I'd say this about the Coravin, but
cheaper given that anyone who wants to do this will want to do with multiple
wines (aside from overenthusiastic hobbyists, Coravins are mostly used to
serve very expensive wines by the glass).

EDIT: I think I misread initially -- you can use it for multiple bottles, but
only their prepackaged wines? No one with this money to burn on wine
accessories is going to want the narrow range of wines they're going to be
able to offer.

~~~
jasonjei
I agree. Plus, the Coravin argon cannisters are very inexpensive compared to
what these will sell for.

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x0054
If this is a serious problem, what about simply packaging Wine in 6-12 oz
bottles? Single serve glass wine. This looks like a really over engineered
solution to a rather simple problem.

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mattmanser
They have these in larger supermarkets in the UK. Usually 1/4 of a shelf
compared to the 20 odd shelves of normal wine.

There's not much of a demand.

~~~
toyg
There would be if the wine were decent. Typically, smaller bottles are from
rubbish brands and cater mostly to alcoholists. Same in Italy.

I guess the main costs for wine producers are not the bottle nor the wine, so
there would be little price differentiation (which is essential) and moving
larger quantities of 1 format is better than moving smaller quantities of 2. A
lot of producers struggle as it is, so supporting another format is hard.
Still, if a cartel of producers agreed on a secondary format, pooled costs and
launched a "tasting" line, maybe it would be viable.

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nxzero
Of the hundreds of people I've seen drink wine, never once have I heard this
as an issue.

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nickff
Many bottles are only partially consumed, which is why some wines (such as
delicate dry sherries which can spoil in a matter of hours) are often packaged
in half-bottles. That being said, I think the product in the OP is not a good
solution.

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rdl
Is this really a widespread problem? A bottle of wine is...3-6 glasses. For
one person, yes, that's a lot for one night, but for two people, not really.

Every time I've seen one of these new packaging options, it was actually a
better value to open a bottle of reasonable wine, drink 1-2 glasses, and throw
away the rest. (I am fine with the vacuum pump cork thing for a day or two,
too)

~~~
prawn
Don't throw away the rest. Keep it aside and check the quality the next
evening or cook with it.

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eldude
Or buy a nitrogen or argon system[1] for about the same price ($200 v $300),
but which instead is compatible with any bottle and lasts indefinitely after
opening instead of 30 days.

Or just buy the gas directly for $20[2], which in theory works just as well as
long as you leave the bottle upright, or at least inject enough heavy gas to
create a layer covering the air/liquid surface area.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Coravin-1000-Wine-System-
Black/dp/B00G...](http://www.amazon.com/Coravin-1000-Wine-System-
Black/dp/B00GOH28S0)

[2] [http://www.amazon.com/Private-Preserve-Wine-Preservation-
Spr...](http://www.amazon.com/Private-Preserve-Wine-Preservation-
Spray/dp/B0000DCS18)

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knightofmars
You're not going to be able to "touch screen" a new bottle of wine if you live
in any number of states that won't allow wine to be shipped to you from out of
state unless the distributor is willing to pay what effectively boils down to
a tariff on wine imports.

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medius
And what's up with "$300B industry"? It's like someone opening a deli and
saying they are disrupting $X00 billion food industry.

~~~
carterehsmith
Yup, exactly :)

VC approach to these silly "disruptive enterprises" is statistically sound:
throw 1000 pieces of shit (disruptive enterprises) on the wall, see what
sticks. 95% of them will just slide down; but they won't cost too much ("grow
big or fail fast"), and some % might get some traction, and hopefully cover
for the other 95%.

This also works with books and movies and computer games etc, it is fun.

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pinot
As someone who actually works in the packaged beverage industry and has had a
lot of wine experience... no.

The last thing we're looking for is a way to make our package more expensive
and limit the number of customers we can reach.

~~~
toyg
A smaller form factor (not necessarily this particular one, which looks
stupid) could give you _more_ consumers though. Coke sells more cans than 2-L
bottles, after all. If I could buy something like a half-bottle at 75% of a
full one, _packing good wine_ , I would buy loads of different ones.

As it is, I know that I would overspend for a couple of glasses, because my
wife doesn't drink; or I would have to limit myself to the industrial plonk,
the only stuff that comes in smaller formats. So I buy a beer or soft drink
instead.

~~~
tcdent
375ml 'half bottles' have been around for a very long time. The claim from
those with a discerning enough palate is that the wine develops differently
inside the smaller container, and thus the 750ml is ideal.

I recently tried a few canned (12 oz) wines that were surprisingly nice.

Like wine, the breadth of beers sold in smaller packages is growing, but for
the full variety you have to purchase larger 22oz bottles.

~~~
glenra
> _The claim [...] is that the wine develops differently inside the smaller
> container_

Is there some reason they couldn't let it "develop" an appropriate amount of
time inside the larger container, then divide the result into small beer-sized
containers (cans or bottles) for sale to end-consumers?

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pklausler
Better solution: a smaller reusable container for storing your surplus wine
overnight.

Even better solution: friends.

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nickff
Trying to convince people to spend $200 + markup on each cartridge to save
money on spoilage seems like a challenging proposition, especially when some
(such as myself) would see this as a worse user experience.

E-readers such as the Kindle seem to have succeeded at convincing a large
consumer segment to make a small capital investment, but only by offering some
additional features and reducing incremental costs (i.e. book prices).

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kruipen
Private Preserve [1] is a good, inexpensive solution to this problem.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Private-Preserve-Wine-Preservation-
Spr...](http://www.amazon.com/Private-Preserve-Wine-Preservation-
Spray/dp/B0000DCS18)

------
toyg
The real "solution" is for wine producers to sell half-bottles. It's something
that most others food producers have adapted to, but somehow the upmarket wine
sector is stuck on wasteful multi-person formats.

~~~
prawn
Wine producers already sell half-bottles. I imagine they prioritise what they
sell more of.

FWIW, my wife buys sparkling white in 200mL bottles.

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jt2190
Many of the comments here are about the technology, which isn't that
revolutionary.

Wine drinkers are highly ritualistic, especially in the U.S. Despite decades
of science and engineering around better packaging, drinkers still hold on to
the idea that wine must be in a corked bottle. While I'm not sure that Kuvee
has found "the" solution, I think it's interesting that they're taking a
"build a more luxurious bottle" approach to convincing consumers to switch.

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pdq
Is this "technology" just a fancy version of Franzia, aka inexpensive box
wine?

~~~
c0brac0bra
This was my response. There are lots and lots of different boxed wine brands
nowawdays, with different levels of quality and price.

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seibelj
Do you buy a single one of these as a consumer, then put a bottle into it? Or
is every bottle like this? Or do you buy a unit, then special bottles which
only go into the unit?

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orky56
From the article:

The core of the system is a decanter that sells for $199 and looks like an
oversize wine bottle. Ranging in price from $15 to $50, the canisters slide
into the bottom and click in place. Equipped with a bladder and special valve,
the wine can be poured without any oxygen seeping in, and drinkers can swap
out a Pinot noir for a Syrah by ejecting one canister and clicking in another.
After an initial pour, Kuvée wines will stay fresh for about 30 days.

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solnyshok
devil is, as usual, in details. while wine industry could be 300bn, wine
bottle industry is significantly smaller, as in, my guess, 100 times smaller.
And if you really worry about oxidation - vacuum pumps are significantly
cheaper, around 20usd. and you can use those now, on any bottle. I think their
small niche could be lonely restaurant goers, who would appreciate fancy
bottle and taste without having to buy it for 200$

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placeybordeaux
Given the same choices of wine I would choose a card board box and a plastic
bladder every time.

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beedogs
I'm sure I'll see this on Internet Of Shit's twitter feed real soon.

