
ReactOS 0.4.4 Released - return_0e
https://reactos.org/project-news/reactos-044-released
======
DominoTree
ReactOS is one of the most impressive software endeavors I've ever seen, both
from the scope of the task _and_ the progress that's actually been made,
especially from such a small core group of developers.

Many of the comments here are saying they're surprised it's still alive, or
that it's sad someone would work on it, or that it should have more features.
You're all missing the point.

~~~
selestify
What is the point?

~~~
jdietrich
Do you remember IBM's OS/2? It turns out that a lot of really important
systems still rely on OS/2\. ATMs, ticketing machines, industrial control
systems. Stuff that still has plenty of lifespan left, but would be
prohibitively expensive to replace from scratch. A company called eComStation
produce an OS/2-compatible operating system, with full support for modern
hardware. Their clients include Boeing, Fujitsu, Alstom and Siemens.

I know of many vitally important systems that are still running on DOS,
Windows 3.1 and a variety of even more obsolete platforms. I expect that
Windows XP will continue to be a significant platform for several decades. If
ReactOS ever gets out of beta, it'll be a boon for huge numbers of users.

~~~
wruza
It is interesting what exactly does eComStation support. Is that really
mission-critical or just rarely used processes that no one wants to upgrade.
Given the size of 4 companies you mentioned, there is non-zero probability
that they allow entire eComStation to exist as a rounding error.

------
remir
There's 288 Linux distributions currently listed on DistroWatch, multiple DE,
package managers, and yet, Windows is still dominating on desktop.

Having an open source clone of Windows makes perfect sense. Imagine if, after
all those years, this project received more support from the open source
community. Today we would have a free and open source OS that would be able to
run Windows drivers and the Win32 apps people want to use. Adobe's stuff,
AutoCAD, AbletonLive, games, MS Office, etc.

In the end, the average person doesn't care about operating systems. What they
care about is their apps.

~~~
ftlio
Windows 10 isn't too bad OS wise either though. I don't know, maybe I'm just
too old now because I'm already tired typing about it. I still scratch my head
when I see people developing non Windows apps on Windows. And I run Nix on
everything. But I'd accept 'I like Windows more even if I could run my
expensive industry specific software on Linux' without feeling the need to
explain why they're wrong.

~~~
leadingthenet
You're missing the point about criticism of Windows 10.

Almost nobody could claim that it's a bad OS from a technical standpoint,
though there are certainly significant improvements to be made. The real issue
is lack of any semblance of privacy, user unfriendliness, and frankly the
closed-down nature of it is never going to do it any favours.

In my view, apart from gaming, it has nothing going for it.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
_> In my view, apart from gaming, it has nothing going for it._

What Windows has going for it is that it supports a lot of different
desktop/laptop hardware very well.

macOS doesn't support a lot of hardware. Linux supports a lot of hardware but
much of it not very well.

If I list my desired specs for a laptop or desktop and then go ahead and buy
the one that best meets my criteria, chances are pretty high that Windows will
run best on it.

I have been a Mac user for many years. I'm using a Mac mini right now. But if
I had to replace it today I wouldn't know what to replace it with.

~~~
silky
> What Windows has going for it is that it supports a lot of different
> desktop/laptop hardware very well.

I don't think that's the case. It's not that Windows itself supports more
hardware, but the fact that drivers for said hardware are built only for
Windows. It could even be seen as a vicious cicle: 1) HW manufacturers create
drivers for Windows because It's more popular; 2) Users use Windows because
"It Just Works (TM)" and so userbase grows; 3) goto 1

> Linux supports a lot of hardware but much of it not very well.

Hence I think Linux supports more HW but driver support isn't as good.

I get what you're saying though.

~~~
digi_owl
A lot of the crap in Linux hardware support comes borked hardware that under
Windows is papered over by the OEM drivers.

Damn it, Foxconn managed to ship a desktop motherboard that would produce junk
ACPI data unless the OS identified itself as Windows on boot.

------
voltagex_
Wow - while looking at the changelog, I found that there's a working btrfs
driver for Windows/ReactOS.

[https://github.com/maharmstone/btrfs](https://github.com/maharmstone/btrfs)

Of course, Microsoft's driver signing changes make it a very expensive
proposition to run on Windows 10, unfortunately.

~~~
shawnz
You could sign it yourself and install that certificate into your system. A
certificate that will work for everyone would cost about $200/year, which I
don't think is too unreasonable.

~~~
NegativeLatency
If the software is open source Microsoft should be good enough to have a
pathway for people to get it out for free.

~~~
wila
There's relatively cheap code signing [0] certificates specifically for open
source. There might be completely free alternatives too, not sure about that,
but EUR 28 is not a lot.

[0]
[https://www.certum.eu/certum/cert,offer_en_open_source_cs.xm...](https://www.certum.eu/certum/cert,offer_en_open_source_cs.xml)

[1] [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1177552/code-signing-
cert...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1177552/code-signing-certificate-
for-open-source-projects)

~~~
poizan42
I think you need an EV certificate from one of 5 providers to sign drivers
that works on Windows 10 now.

~~~
wila
Yes, you are correct. This has been enforced now since build 1607. So no way
to get a driver signed cheaply anymore.

[0]
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/windows_hardware_certificat...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/windows_hardware_certification/2016/07/26/driver-
signing-changes-in-windows-10-version-1607/)

~~~
poizan42
I think there is something about "getting the driver signed from the
dashboard", seems like Microsoft will sign it if it passes WHQL certification.
But it is really hard to find any coherent information about how it all works.
Seems that everything is kept obscure if you are not a big hardware company.
Something as simple as getting a list of which certificates that will work
seems practically impossible. The only useful information seems to be from
blog posts and forum discussions at osronline.

Of course malware authors don't care much about all this since they just find
some old version of a driver with a known vulnerability, so the only it
accomplishes is keeping a high barrier to entry.

------
boznz
Being able to install from USB Flash should be a top priority as CD's and DVDs
are becoming less common and a lot of newer embedded boards (which would be a
good target market) don't even have SATA or IDE connectors.

Windows Embedded versions (7 through 10) are impossible to get a licence for
without jumping through a shit-tonne of hoops, paperwork and scrutiny (been
there recently and its almost like Microsoft don't want your custom even when
its genuine) so there is a market but more of us embedded people are moving to
Linux so you need to be quick.

Anyway Watching with interest and keep up the progress

~~~
em3rgent0rdr
according to
[https://reactos.org/wiki/LiveUSB](https://reactos.org/wiki/LiveUSB),
installation from USB used to be possible, but some USB-stack rewrite commit
broke it.

------
m-p-3
I'm surprised the project is still ongoing. Agree they cooperating with the
wine team on their progression?

~~~
mastazi
Yes, the relationship with WINE is described in this page from the ReactOS
wiki: [https://www.reactos.org/wiki/WINE](https://www.reactos.org/wiki/WINE)

~~~
yellowapple
On a related note, the Arwinss subproject (which restructures ReactOS a bit to
more closely match WINE's architecture) is pretty interesting:
[https://www.reactos.org/wiki/Arwinss](https://www.reactos.org/wiki/Arwinss)

------
smcl
What does Microsoft think about the ReactOS effort? Looking at the gallery[0]
the screenshots are pretty much indistinguishable from Windows 2000-ish (or XP
with "Classic" theme) so I assumed they'd at least have something to say about
that

[0] = [https://reactos.org/gallery](https://reactos.org/gallery)

~~~
userulluipeste
ReactOS supports themes since before 0.4 series. The gallery is full of old
screenshots.

Microsoft doesn't publicly show any signs of attention.

------
gspetr
It is certainly impressive that they've modernized their website and made it
friendlier.

For a project like this it goes a long way towards staying relevant.

Just a few years ago it still looked like something I made for a school
project with quick and dirty hacks in PHP in early 2000s.

Glad to see they took care of it.

------
nimrody
Would be interesting to implement a Linux compatibility layer on top of
ReactOS -- just to get the benefit of using binary drivers supplied by
manufacturers for Windows. Perhaps Wayland could run on top of ReactOS and
benefit from native DirectX drivers?

~~~
Zuider
The Linux Unified Kernel project had similar aims of providing binary
compatibility for both Linux and Windows applications and drivers. The last
release was in 2014.

[http://www.longene.org/en/aboutproject.php](http://www.longene.org/en/aboutproject.php)

------
pmarreck
This could be a PERFECT "gaming OS", with a little love. So tired of having to
use Windows for my gaming machine.

------
nym
Does this have anything to do with ReactJS or React Native?

~~~
marvy
Just the name is similar; these folks are just trying to rewrite Windows, no
JS involved.

~~~
nym
Thank you.

~~~
marvy
you're welcome :)

------
miguelrochefort
ReactOS is the saddest thing.

Why would anyone do this? For 13 years? Why?

~~~
nxc18
Operating systems are cool.

Just about every popular general purpose operating system is some variation on
UNIX. That is sad, just like it would be sad if JavaScript, TypeScript and
Coffescript were the only popular programming languages. The only difference
in scenarios is that the OS is much more significant and critical than the
programming language.

Windows is fundamentally different from Linux and UNIX. ReactOS is a clean
room reimplementation of that, bringing NT's many excellent ideas to the open
source community. That is a good thing, even if you never get to use it. Don't
forget that, just like in every other part of life, different != bad.

~~~
theamk
Agree, NT has many excellent ideas. But re-implementing it today seems silly.
Are you going to have messages with take two integers only, then stick two
16-bit fields into second one? Look at these articles, do you think anyone
should be implementing API like this in 21st century:

[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20070710-00/?p=...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20070710-00/?p=26083)
[https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20120913-00/?p=...](https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20120913-00/?p=6613)

I am all for variety. Hurd, L4 -- these are fundamentally different from Unix
and very interesting. ReactOS? well if you enjoy debugging windows kernel
drivers without source code...

~~~
chris_wot
That's the Win32 executive subsystem, which is only a small (albeit important)
part of Windows NT. The ReactOS project aims to get binary driver
compatibility with Windows, amongst other things.

And yes, lots of people enjoy reverse engineering things like drivers.

------
cocktailpeanuts
How can something that was released 13 years ago still be alpha and has 0.4.4
as the version?

I am curious what the story is, is this backed by some company? Was this
almost abandoned along the way but picked up?

~~~
Sanddancer
It's a rather huge effort by a fairly small group of people not backed by any
corporations [1]. They are aiming for bug-for-bug compatibility with Windows,
including the driver model. One of the reasons for it taking so long, though,
was it was discovered that a previous developer had written code garnered from
disassembling pieces of the Windows kernel. Thus they had to perform a rather
long process of auditing all of the code that had already been written to
ensure that no Microsoft code was in the codebase.

[1]
[https://reactos.org/wiki/People_of_ReactOS](https://reactos.org/wiki/People_of_ReactOS)

~~~
copx
What a waste of time. ReactOS is illegal anyway. Microsoft must have a million
patents on Windows technology, no way you could re-implement Windows without
violating them.

Fact is the moment ReactOS becomes a threat to Microsoft's business interests
they will sue it out of existence.

Even if you ignore the patents issue, any re-implementation of Windows will
inevitably be full of code looking similar to the Microsoft one, even if the
authors never looked at the Microsoft code. And as the recent Oculus court
case has shown, such a similarity is all Microsoft needs to successfully sue
them.

I like the idea of project but I would never contribute to it because of the
reality above.

~~~
wtallis
It sounds like you're commenting within the context of the worst excesses of
US IP law, but the project seems to be most closely tied with Germany and
Russia. It's definitely not illegal everywhere.

And even within the US, ReactOS in its current state is perfectly safe:
Microsoft has nothing to gain by suing them, but they would risk an extremely
harmful precedent should they go to trial with their precious IP. Microsoft's
patents and copyright FUD are effective tools against corporations, but not
loosely organized collections of free software users.

