
New ThinkPad Guts Bring Intel Core I, DDR4, USB 3 to Cult Laptops - edward
https://hackaday.com/2018/03/12/new-guts-make-old-thinkpads-new/
======
kauffj
I'm currently on my fifth ThinkPad, so you could say I'm a fan. But I'd like
to warn everyone that uses Linux to be careful about buying one.

I bought a T540 3 years ago that shipped with a Bay Trail processor. This
processor was absolutely unusable on Linux due to this bug
([https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051](https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=109051)).
Even setting max cstate to 1 resulted in regular freezes.

Not only would Lenovo not accept a return of the laptop, I could not even get
them to update their Linux compatibility page to warn other users!

To this day:

\- The cstate bug is not fixed, and running Linux on a Bay Trail processor
will cause lockups

\- Lenovo continues to recommend laptop versions that are flat out broken on
Linux
([https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426](https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd031426))

So be careful!

~~~
snuxoll
My W540 is absolute shit running Linux too, the thing randomly locks up and
just running VMWare workstation causes the damned thing to heat up.

The ThinkPad was once venerable brand, but I've lost all respect for it - at
this point I'm probably just going to buy a MacBook Pro and send the W540 back
to the office because I'm tired of playing the Linux compatibility game on
modern notebooks.

~~~
sjellis
"at this point I'm probably just going to buy a MacBook Pro and send the W540
back to the office because I'm tired of playing the Linux compatibility game
on modern notebooks."

Former ThinkPad fan, current MacBook user: I am likely to buy a Dell for my
next laptop. Dell expanded the range of machines that they will preload with
(Ubuntu) Linux last year, and were the first big vendor to sign on to the
Linux Vendor Firmware Service, so that supported computers can get easily get
firmware upgrades.

~~~
gambiting
Former mac user, now Dell XPS user - my first impressions were great, second
not so much. XPS laptops have a horrendous coil whine and a lot of model lines
have an issue where the computer won't go to sleep(instead stays on with the
fan off, resulting in the machine reaching burning temperatures if you just
close the lid and put it in your bag). I've had the motherboard replaced 3
times now - both issues are still present. There's thread upon thread upon
thread about both on Dell forums - and it seems Dell doesn't have an
engineering solution, despite being on the 7th(?) generation of that laptop.

~~~
sjellis
"Former mac user, now Dell XPS user - my first impressions were great, second
not so much."

Yeah, I definitely should have qualified that I probably would not get an XPS,
because there seem to be consistent issues with that line. That's why I'm
pleased to see that Dell have expanded the number of ranges that they offer
Linux support on: hopefully there will be some good models at the time that I
need to buy a new machine. Or I could buy an unsupported model: none of the
ThinkPads that I used had Linux support from the vendor.

------
nine_k
I wonder why the lineup of boxy, built-like-a-tank, serviceable laptops with a
comfortable keyboard and plenty of room for batteries seems to have dried up.
I have trouble finding such a machine with a hi-DPI screen, for instance.

If I could mount a screen from Dell XPS (3840 pixels wide) to a T420, that
would be mostly it. A thunderbolt connector would be a mere nice-to-have.

The next best thing is apparently a Thinkpad Carbon, it seems to retain a good
keyboard, but apparently bids farewell to the "serviceable" part: e.g. RAM is
soldered on.

~~~
djsumdog
Gaming laptops are probably the direction to go. The larger MSIs and
Alienwares (Dell) are bulkier and probably more user-serviceable (although I'd
check iFixit first to be sure).

You do have to deal with the dual-video card craziness, but there are plenty
of guides to show which ACPI setting to changed to ensure they're off when
you're trying to save battery. Some of the MSIs change the color of the power
LED to indicate which GPU is active which helps as well.

~~~
KozmoNau7
If you get the proper business-class models from Lenovo, Dell or HP, you can
still service just about everything with nothing more than a phillips
screwdriver.

Screen replacement on the newer Thinkpads is a little harder than it used to
be, because the front frame is glued on now, but replacements are inexpensive.

------
akkat
I wonder why other competitors don't copy the idea of having a sturdy bulky
laptop with hardware switches, lots of keyboard buttons, trackpoint, and but
battery. Is the market really that small?

~~~
legitster
Dell and HP both have _comparable_ laptops for the enterprise market. But
Thinkpad has done a good job of not diluting their lineup with cheap, crappy
laptops.

~~~
comboy
Can you provide some specific models? Because I'd love something modern that
looks and feels like X61 but can't seem to find it.

~~~
dijit
HP's Elitebooks and Dells Latitudes are the "Premium Business" focused line.

[http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-
elitebook-830-g5-notebook-p...](http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-
elitebook-830-g5-notebook-pc-p-3py97ut-aba-1)

[http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-
noteboo...](http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-
notebooks/latitude-7480/spd/latitude-14-7480-laptop/s019l748014us)

------
shasheene
The fundamental issue here is there was never any industry standardization for
laptops like there was for desktop PCs. An ATX case
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX)) from
1995 can still be used as the enclosure for a 2018 desktop. That's 23 years.
(See the "sleeper PC" subculture)

If a few component manufacturers came together and standardize component
dimensions and tolerances based on something like an IBM ThinkPad, and an age
of upgradeable laptops could have occurred.

------
post_break
I have an x230 with a mod chip that steals display port lanes so it can run a
1080p panel. Thinkpad users think outside the box to get laptops that fit
their needs usually. Unfortunately I switched to a new dell XPS 13 because I
need more battery life. Apples and oranges unfortunately, can't afford any of
the new thinkpads with decent screens.

~~~
epanchin
I bought a new battery from Levono for my x230 this year, and the battery life
is now ace. Longer than a work day.

~~~
KozmoNau7
I bought a 9-cell battery (7800mAh) from 2Power, and I get 6-7 hours no
problem, with wifi and bluetooth on.

~~~
post_break
I have a new 9 cell as well. 6-7 hours just doesn't do it for me.

~~~
KozmoNau7
You could get the slice battery, along with the 9-cell that should bring you
to 15 hours at least, and probably up to 20 (provided you get batteries with
accurate stated capacity).

Yes, it'll make the laptop significantly more bulky, but the X220 and X230 are
from before Lenovo started putting ultra low voltage CPUs in their laptops, so
they do have higher TDP than later models. That's just how it is.

The X240 can supposedly go for over 24 hours with the maxed out battery
configuration.

~~~
post_break
I bought an X250 because of that. I hated that machine. It felt so cheap and
weak. It did not feel like a thinkpad. Sold it rather quickly even though it
was much faster and longer lasting than the X230. I'm just done with lenovo at
this point. After they gimped the X280 I said that was the final straw.

~~~
KozmoNau7
I'm a bit miffed about the X280 design choices as well. It should have been an
X280s, with the regular full-fat X280 still having all the good features, like
a removable battery.

I hope they'll make an X280p or something that's more like the older X
Thinkpads.

------
vuln
My x220 with an i7, 16GB of RAM and a 500GB Samsung SSD. The thing flys. Just
upgraded upgraded to the newest Debian release with zero issues. Everything
just works.

~~~
granitosaurus
Don't forget IPS screen that you can get off ebay for $50! The biggest upgrade
I've done to my x220. I think you can even get FHD moded IPS somehow, but it
looked like a bit of work last time I checked.

~~~
ardfie
I bought a used x230 recently. My only gripe has been the washed out display -
I should give this a go. Otherwise the performance is very good for a machine
that was so inexpensive.

~~~
post_break
I'm going to be selling my x230 soon. I've got a mod chip and 1080p IPS
display I could sell you.

------
jasonkester
Ooh! Instabuy.

I have 3 or 4 of these little t60 vintage thinkpads, and they're still the
ideal road machine, 10 years later.

You can pick a used one up on eBay for less than $200, then spend another
hundred or so dropping in a new keyboard, 8gb memory, and a TB SSD. Then you
can stuff it into the bottom of your backpack and sit on it while taking the
slow boat up the Mekong.

Whenever I head off somewhere sketchy enough to worry about the safety or
smooshability of the $2500 dev machine, I'm on eBay grabbing a new one.

Now I have a new final step in the process.

~~~
gnfisher
How is the CPU in these? I have an X220 with the i5 Broadwell (I think, model
2450m) and the CPU is mostly fine. The Core 2 Duo in the T60 seems to be a
quite a step down, though...

------
legitster
Nice.

There are so many of these dream ThinkPad builds. It's a testament to the
community that the fanboys don't just complain, they find ways to build the
things.

------
hendry
I'm loving Archlinux on my new 8th gen T480s
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRvYTLntgv4&list=PLiKgVPlhUN...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRvYTLntgv4&list=PLiKgVPlhUNuz9k0xIp7PGUV5mmDdTS1vJ)

~~~
bproven
lucky! I grabbed a refurb T470, added an SSD + high cap battery. Runs Fedora
like a charm! I did pay 1/3 of the price of a T480s but I do wish I had those
extra 2 cores!!

------
zaarn
For university I got a T450 a while ago. Probably the best laptop I ever had.
It runs linux flawlessly (and I mean it, booting straight from a Knoppix ISO
Image from 2.3 kernel times is no problem as much as booting a modern 4.15
kernel)

It seems they have somewhat fubar'd some of the newer and cheaper releases. I
do however recommend to atleast try the more business oriented variants,
usually they contain less crap.

I also find it disappointing that nobody else builds laptops like the
Thinkpad. All I want from a good laptop is A) sturdy B) nipple mouse and C)
long battery life.

~~~
edwinyzh
I'm satisfied with my T450 too! It's the 256G SDD edition with another 512G
SSD I attached later on.

------
stealthcat
Can I trust them? I have trust issues with Chinese (botnets, backdoor in bios
etc.)

~~~
slezyr
What company/country you trust?

~~~
kerberos84
He trusts in NSA.

------
chx
The article mentions Thunderbolt 3. Let's not get overexcited: these do not
have Thunderbolt 3.

------
mmjaa
I have a GPD Pocket, and I love it. Its a unibody laptop with a great screen,
passable keyboard, and so on.

Its user serviceable - very easy to open up.

What I'd love: if some bright and talented hardware engineer could produce an
upgrade board for it, so I could swap out the existing PCB for a newer CPU.

I'm _sure_ this would be a successful project for some budding hacker!

------
techman9
I hope I never have to do something like this to keep my beloved 2015 Macbook
Pro alive.

~~~
paulsmal
I own 2015 macbook pro as well, and I feel like a have to change it soon.
Mostly due to battery capacity loss and anti glare coverage issues [0]

[0] : [https://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/16/retina-macbook-pro-
stai...](https://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/16/retina-macbook-pro-stained-
coating/)

~~~
ericabiz
The 2013-2016 era Retina batteries are replaceable from independent repair
shops (i.e. not affiliated with Apple.)

The batteries are glued in, but independent repair folks found a way to remove
them with some isopropyl alcohol and old credit cards/gift cards or sturdy
playing cards.

This isn’t for the faint of heart, as they can explode, but repair shops have
experience replacing them.

~~~
paulsmal
Would be awesome if I can find some decent repair shop that can make it like
new but unfortunately I had a bad experience with my previous macbook pro
2011. It was battery first, than some power controller. As they said apple
stops making repair parts after few years and you can find change only in used
laptops.

------
fouc
My first choice was a thinkpad. My second choice was a macbook.

------
godelmachine
I bought ThinkPad in 2013. Highly disappointed. Won't buy again.

~~~
matte_black
Why?

~~~
godelmachine
Even a slight movement caused the laptop to hang, and this has been happening
ever since the day I bought. I dismissed it as something trivial and didn'
took it up to customer service.

A few months later, I got multiple vertical lines across my monitor. The
technician came and while disassembling, he messed the nuts & bolts. When he
assembled later, he forgot to put a few nuts in place. A few days later got
the same vertical lines problem. Took these 2 issues to their customer
service, even escalated, was 4 hours on call. They did not give 2 hoots.

That's how Lenovo treats its ThinkPad customers

~~~
grenoire
Sounds like a faulty HDD on which the OS resides.

------
stanislavb
If only I could have a decent ThinkPad running OSX...

~~~
MatthewRayfield
Ah but you can !

I bought a Thinkpad T420 last year and put OS X on it using this amazing
guide: [http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/285678-lenovo-
thinkpa...](http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/285678-lenovo-
thinkpad-t420-with-uefi-only/#comment-1952283)

Works great :]

~~~
djsumdog
Reminds me of back in the day when I had a hackintosh desktop running 10.6;
really the last good OS X version. Everything since that I haven't really
liked.

