
Ask HN: Should I sell out the startup that misled me? - nocash
Summary: Startup not paying wages or tax on employees, to claim unemployment benefit I have to report them.<p>Hi guys, I&#x27;d appreciate some outside perspective here.<p>I&#x27;ve been working with a startup for about two months as their CTO. Small team, three&#x2F;four developers depending how you count. Handshake deal said moderate salary until series A but with equity.<p>I&#x27;ve been pushing and pushing for a contract stating the terms, but there always seemed to be something else the CEO had to do. However, I met the rest of the team and it all seemed legitimate.<p>Around the two month mark, I dug my heels in and said contract or I walk. Next day I have a meeting with the CEO and it comes out that there&#x27;s no salaries being paid, people are working for equity. I explain that this isn&#x27;t appropriate for my situation, to which the CEO responds with more work for me to do.<p>Obviously, I should walk away at this point (or ideally weeks before), but there are some twists:<p>1) The work that I produced for them is still mine, as no copyright transfer has been signed. They&#x27;ll almost certainly be trying to sell this &#x2F; bring it to investors.<p>2) It&#x27;s not legal to work only for equity in my country, there&#x27;s a minimum wage, and each employee has to be registered and tax paid on them to the government. I went to apply for unemployment assistance and was told that regardless of whether I was paid, I was considered employed, and thus had no entitlements. Furthermore, as I wasn&#x27;t registered the company was not meeting its tax obligations in hiring me.<p>This brings me to the crux of my problem: If I want to claim unemployment benefit while I look for a real job, I must torpedo the old company. This is bad as it not only can hurt my reputation, it will negatively affect the co-workers who have previously worked for low wage and equity.<p>My feeling is to walk away and cut my losses, but  I thought the community may have other suggestions.<p>Thanks for looking.
======
caseysoftware
You have been scammed.

Leave immediately, take your IP, and don't even _consider_ doing anything else
until things are in writing and the backpay, etc are resolved.

I would go a step further and get the hell away from these guys. If they've
scammed you, they've likely scammed others and/or will scam people again. This
could be you again, customers, or your investors. You do _NOT_ want to be part
of a team that scams their investors.

Walk.

~~~
devcheese
I hate to ask for an explanation here, but I can't find what IP means in this
case.. Can you define?

~~~
saganus
I guess he's referring to Intellectual Property, so the code probably.

------
gwbas1c
I don't know what country you're working in; and what the general climate is,
but here's my words of wisdom:

When I was involved in the startup scene in Silicon Valley, there were a lot
of clowns who didn't understand what it means to run a company. They were
charismatic; but at the end of the day, they didn't understand that they have
to pay their employees in exchange for their labor. Often, these clowns
assumed that things would work out in the end, and that hard work will always
reward itself. They wanted everyone to make a sacrifice for their own dreams.

My opinion: I would have walked away at the two month mark. At day one, I
would need to know that everyone under me is working for equity; because that
changes the work dynamic significantly. The demands made on someone working
for money are different than someone working for equity.

Furthermore, a tech startup is a for-profit venture, so you always need to do
what's in your best interest, and your subordinates best interest. Ideally,
you can torpedo the clowns enough so they can't pull this kind of stunt again;
but it's also import to look out for the people working under you.

------
kstrauser
> it will negatively affect the co-workers who have previously worked for low
> wage and equity.

No. The CEO's actions negatively affected your co-workers, not yours. Do you
suppose if you don't report this that life will become wonderful for them,
that they'll suddenly get millions of dollars from their equity in a company
that can't pay its employees? That seems very, very unlikely to me. And if the
situation is this precarious, than _any_ nudge could break the company.

Definitely get a lawyer. Ethically, though, you have no reason at all to feel
bad about reporting them. You'd be doing the right thing.

~~~
giltleaf
You can always give them a heads up too.

------
korginator
I've been in a similar situation some years ago. My contract was not signed on
time, and I started working some weeks before the contract date, with a
"gentlemen's understanding". I was also owed back pay for consulting work
done, plus reimbursement for office expenses, and travel expenses to fly to
and from the company's other office across the world.

I kept asking for the reimbursement and back-pay promised earlier, some months
later they just refused, and I was not paid. I was offered stock options (not
even stock/equity) instead of money. That's when my team and I saw the crap
going down and started preparing for the worst.

You need to have _all_ your communication about this problem documented,
including if possible the responses from the CEO and others.

You may need to consult an employment advisor or lawyer for advice, if your
department of labour can't provide this to you. You need to be crystal clear
about your situation and repercussions if you choose to torpedo this company.

If things are really as bad as you say they are, you don't need to be too
worried about your reputation - I have been through this situation and it is
not hard to manage. As for co-workers, I sympathise with their plight, but you
need decide for yourself how much you value your career (or don't) by not
taking action now. Also, your co-workers ought to be smart enough to see
what's happening.

In my situation, I went and spoke to a government officer in our department of
labour. She told me that I needed to engage a lawyer in my situation. Legal
fees would have been greater than the money I was owed. In the end, I filed a
police report for the record, with complete documentation on everything that
happened and details of the compensation owed to me.

I lost a few thousand dollars, chalked it up to experience and moved on. The
company's office in my country had to close, their hardware and other
equipment was seized for non-payment of rent, and they wasted many times the
money they could have just paid me to build a great product. As for the
product, their launch was delayed 20-24 months but I believe they did get
something out.

What's even more pitiful is that they had a few million in funds, were already
cash-flow positive on a previous product, and could easily afford to pay
what's due.

Bottom line - if the company is run by a money-grubbing skinflint with a
tendency to shaft his employees, you have every right to do what's good for
you.

~~~
nocash
Thanks for sharing your experience. I don't expect to see any of the back-pay,
but as this is blocking unemployment benefits it's currently costing me. I
think I'll follow your example unless a new job is hard to come by.

~~~
korginator
Sure, glad to share.

Keep everything professional, and unemotional. Document facts.

Whether or not a new job is hard to come by, you are in a toxic situation, and
if you are anything like me, your physical and mental health is already being
affected.

Even if there is an offer of compromise by the CEO, I would be very suspicious
given his past history.

------
dragonwriter
First off, IANAL and this is not legal advice, you absolutely should consult
an attorney.

> The work that I produced for them is still mine, as no copyright transfer
> has been signed.

That is likely untrue. If it was made while you were an employee, during the
scope of your employment, in the US (rules in many other places on this point
are likely to be similar, but may differ in important ways) it would seem to
meet the definition of a "work made for hire" which would be owned by the
employer unless there was a signed agreement to the contrary. [0]

> It's not legal to work only for equity in my country, there's a minimum
> wage, and each employee has to be registered and tax paid on them to the
> government.

Depending on the laws of the jurisdiction where you are working _and_ the laws
of the jurisdiction where the firm is incorporated, as a person with knowledge
of this violation, and/or as an _employee_ with knowledge of this violation,
and/or as a _corporate officer_ with knowledge of this violation, you may well
have legal obligations to (1) bring the violation to the attention of the
government, and/or (2) bring the violation to the attention of the
corporation's board of directors. You may be liable for sanctions if it later
becomes discovered that you knew (and maybe even, as a corporate officer,
reasonably should have known) about the violation and did not fulfill those
obligations.

For that reason, I would recommend consulting with an attorney as to your
options, and the risks and benefits of each, in this circumstance.

[0] See the definition of "work made for hire" at 17 USC Sec. 101, and 17 USC
Sec. 201(b) for ownership of such works.

~~~
jacquesm
If he's an employee there ought to be an employee contract somewhere and
employer taxes paid. Since he's not being paid, a contract never got signed
and likely the taxes did not get paid OP can either go and enforce his
position as an employee _or_ opt to be treated as a freelancer, in which case
a whole pile of other legal issues kick in (even then you need some
paperwork).

As it is I think the hardest thing for him to prove is that he worked there at
all.

Lawyer up and get them to commit to something in writing to the lawyer. All
this very much depends on the location he's in (and the location of the
company, might not be the same), so any references to actual law would need
more information.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If he's an employee there ought to be an employee contract somewhere

The existence of an employment contract, in many jurisdictions, doesn't
require that contract to have been reduced to writing or other physical form.
Contracts exist in law, documents just provide _evidence_ of the existence of
contracts and their specific terms.

> and employer taxes paid.

 _Once_ the employment contract exists, wages are due on the terms in the
contract and employer taxes are due under the conditions set in law (often,
based on wages paid), and failure to pay those things may be (in the first
case) a breach of contract and (in both cases) a violation of the law for
which state action is warranted, but is probably irrelevant to whether a
contract exists in the first place.

> Since he's not being paid, a contract never got signed

Contracts often, as noted previously, don't need to be either reduced to
writing or signed to exist, and, in any case, its quite possible for one to
exist (and even be in writing and signed) without required payment under the
contract taking place (that's a breach of contract, of course, but the main
point of contract law is to deal with breaches.)

> and likely the taxes did not get paid OP can either go and enforce his
> position as an employee or opt to be treated as a freelancer

I am aware of no jurisdiction where failure to pay required wages or employer
taxes would give a worker to _option_ to elect to be treated as an employee or
a contractor (and certainly, if, as you suggest, no contract for their work
exists, then they don't have that option as they are _neither_ an employee
_nor_ a freelancer.)

~~~
lsaferite
Wouldn't there need to be some consideration for an implied contract to be
legal though?

~~~
dragonwriter
There needs to be consideration in the _contract_ (that is, what is agreed
to.) Actually _providing_ the agreed payment is _performance_ of the contract
(or, if it fails, breach of the contract), not a prerequisite for the
existence of the contract (unless its a contract, that, by its terms, is
accepted by performance.)

------
eli
You're asking specific legal questions from people who don't even know where
you live. Please please talk to a local lawyer. Initial consultation are often
free and just because you talk to a lawyer doesn't mean you have to sue
anyone.

~~~
wallace_f
I understand your point, but I think part of his question also involves advice
from a business ethics, and a 'what would you do -- is this normal?,'
perspective. I'm just saying I think it's a reasonable question before/while
pursuing a lawyer

~~~
carapace
The only sensible advice here is "Consult a lawyer." And the reasonable
question to ask is, "How/where do I find a good lawyer?"

The rest of this thread is basically noise.

(Also, don't ever start work without a contract dammit. That's the first sign
to walk away.)

------
module0000
No one wants to be the "bad guy", but blowing the whistle does not make you
the bad guy. It prevents this company from screwing over countless people in
the future.

------
droithomme
You should file for unemployment. You also should send them a letter formally
requesting they pay the wages they owe you based on your verbal agreement
regarding salary and equity. If you are uncertain how to phrase this letter,
see an attorney that specializes in employment issues.

------
norswap
They're purposefully misleading you. Have no shame. Consult with a lawyer,
then issue them an ultimatum: wages and taxes paid, or you'll rat them out and
prevent them (via lawsuit if necessary) from using your IP. I bet they'll
miraculously find money somewhere. Be sure to fix a deadline, otherwise they
might just try to delay this forever. (IANAL)

~~~
gwbas1c
When I encountered clowns that ran companies like the post described, there's
probably no money for back wages and taxes.

My guess is that the founder is three steps out of the poor house himself (or
herself.)

~~~
throwaway090909
It's almost certain the CEO is under major duress and has little cash. Most
people are dishonest not because they like to be, but because they have their
backs up against the wall.

1\. Decide you are going to leave, be confident it's the right choice (it is)

2\. Protect yourself, by understanding the legal implications with your own
research or with a lawyer.

3\. As the person in the position of power here (you are) have compassion.

4\. Explain that you cannot stay, but you don't want to hurt them
unnecessarily.

5.Make a plan for equity compensation, full rights to all of your work (at
least for your own and further commercial use), while allowing them to use it
under a license that doesn't blow up their lives.

6\. Write your letter of recommendation for moving on to the next thing, and
have it be clear that you finding job security is a necessary condition for
things to proceed.

...Or, blow it all up, while trying to minimize the negative consequences for
yourself. Which could be fair enough.

~~~
norswap
> Most people are dishonest not because they like to be, but because they have
> their backs up against the wall.

This is not my personal experience.

> As the person in the position of power here (you are) have compassion.

He just got robbed of months of wages. Sure, he has the hand, but he's still
undeniably the victim.

I'm all for compassion, and understanding but sometimes things are quite clear
cut. I'm not arguing for vendetta, just reparation.

------
athenot
Send them a formal letter reminding them that the Intellectual Property is
yours. If they have any investors, you might want to copy them on that letter
too.

Regarding the government compliance, I think it's safer to err on the side of
the law than on the side of someone who is only promising future rewards, with
no commitment on their part.

If you're in a different country than the company, it may be hard (and costly)
to assert your rights, so keep that in mind: it's a liability for you to do
too much for free. You're basicaly extending them a line of credit hoping to
be paid back but with a non-certain process to recover your investment if they
don't stay true to their word.

------
MatthewWilkes
Think of it this way, "Do I want to be a C-level employee of a company I know
is cheating tax"?

~~~
gaius
Chief Going To Jail Officer doesn't look so good on the ol' CV...

------
znpy
Basing on my experience, there is no such thing as "gentlemen's understanding"
(or "gentewomen's understanding").

Gentlemen/Gentlewomen take responsibility for their actions/agreements and
sign contracts.

Again, basing on my experience, if somebody does not want to sign a contract,
they're already planning on taking advantage of you. In this cases, my
approach is to backtroll and say: "okay, I'll work for you without a contract,
but you have to pay me in full, upfront and in cash". This suddenly puts them
in _your_ position (all risks and no guarantees) and usually ends the
discussion, with them either agreeing for reasonable terms and signing a
contract or stopping wasting your time (in any case, it's a win).

Note: I have to admit that "they" agreeing to pay in full, upfront and in cash
never happened to me, and if that happened I don't think I would agree.

------
svetob
A company that steals your time on the basis of a vague promise of payment
that they have no intention of keeping? That is both illegal and immoral, all
over the world. Yes, burn them to the ground.

------
HeyLaughingBoy
I really don't understand why this keeps coming up. In any other industry, the
answer would be obvious: don't work for free.

What is it about software developers that makes them think there's even a
question about this?

~~~
narag
Nothing. I don't know a single programmer that works for free in Spain.
Graphical designers, on the other hand, I've heard dozen of stories of them
working for nothing "to assemble a portfolio" for big advertisement agencies,
the kind that put ads in tv or in giant billboards.

Also anything art related: rich family fine arts graduates that work for
peanuts in semi-public institutions to "make a name".

~~~
toyg
I totally agree, same in Italy and to an extent also in UK. I think webdevs
used to be caught up in the same dynamics up to 10 years ago, and they've
since wised up (all those "Fuck you, pay me" slides eventually must have had
an impact); but I'm sure it still happens here and there.

------
throwaway8695
Very difficult stuff. Only a lawyer can answer this. What I can say is get out
- now - and don't do another second of free work for this clown.

I've been in a similar situation myself up until very recently (hence the
throwaway)... Was initially (briefly) paid as a contractor, money supposedly
running out, volunteered to take equity instead to help keep the project
afloat, equity never materialised. After 2 years the whole enterprise is now
in the final stages of falling apart. Speaking to employees of another of the
owner's companies, they're in a similar situation of being massively underpaid
with vague promises of equity that have also failed to materialise. Any
attempt to confront the owner on this is met with a lot of hand waving and/or
an abrupt change of subject.

Thankfully in my case I maintained some independence and kept up enough other
contracting work to stay afloat, but it still leaves an awful taste in the
mouth. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the employees of the other
company who are still being strung along day by day.

------
efriese
If you really need the unemployment I would blow the whistle. Your livelihood
is always more valuable than a reputation. I doubt your reputation will take a
huge hit for reporting what sounds like a dishonest company.

~~~
RIMR
>Your livelihood is always more valuable than a reputation.

I can't say I agree. There are plenty of instances where your short-term
financial situation could be a whole lot less important than your long-term
reputation within an industry.

~~~
efriese
Livelihood encompasses more than just financial. If it were just money most
people could get by. The stress on a person and their family while job
hunting, especially at the CTO level, can be pretty huge. I would much rather
have some runway to find the gig I want rather worry about my reputation.

~~~
gwbas1c
I get the impression that this is a young guy. CTO of a startup means
something different than CTO of an established company.

Most likely, it's a bunch of recent college grads working on someone's pipe
dream, but there's no real leadership that would translate to a company.

------
logfromblammo
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do
nothing." \--Edmund Burke

Immediately consult with a local attorney familiar with employment law in your
locale.

What you are describing is both crime and tort. Even if you decline to attempt
to recover your personal damages in a civil action, you do have a moral
obligation to your fellow workers to report the crime. And your own attorney
will help you report it to the state's prosecutors such that it is crystal
clear that you were not a willing conspirator.

------
jonnathanson
You are most likely an officer of the company (unless you are "CTO"
informally?). You know the company to be violating local employment law and
taxes. You probably have an obligation to attempt to do something about this
if your CEO will not. Conversely, you may (?) bear some responsibility if you
do not take action.

IANAL, and this is not free legal advice. My advice is to talk to a lawyer
ASAP. Your inital consultation is likely to be free of charge. Consult.

------
kerryfalk
Stop working. Consult lawyer. Seek alternate employment.

------
gizmo
They didn't just "mislead you", their behavior is outright criminal.

If you don't report them more people will be victimized by their antics. So
you have a moral duty to stop that from happening.

------
MaulingMonkey
> If I want to claim unemployment benefit while I look for a real job, I must
> torpedo the old company.

No IP assignment contracts, broken verbal contracts, broken laws... you're not
the one torpedoing the company.

> it will negatively affect the co-workers who have previously worked for low
> wage and equity.

You've already established that it's actually "no wage" and effectively "no
equity" \- the only thing guaranteeing equity is a verbal contract / handshake
deal, and they've already reigned on one of those. What will negatively affect
your co-workers is continuing to work for this company.

And while I might hesitate to take unilateral action on behalf of others - I
_hate_ people making decisions for me - taking action on behalf of yourself is
entirely reasonable. Hell, taking action on behalf of others is sounding
rather reasonable here.

------
nocash
Update: Please upvote this for future readers.

Thank you to all who commented. The general advice of get a lawyer is
absolutely correct, I had not considered the potential backlash this could
have on me if my name is associated with their illegal practices.

Calls to 'name and shame, while cathartic, probably aren't going to be very
useful. There isn't a database of bad actors that has any reputability, and
the legal consequences may be dire.

I'm just about scraping by without wages, so the ideal course of action seems
to be to try and get a cheap/free initial consultation from an appropriate
lawyer before deciding on what to say to the unemployment services. I think,
however, getting a new job pronto would be a better use of my time, though
both may be possible. Luckily, I have no dependants so the mistake is mine.

I don't expect to see any wages from this company, the CEO appears to be
living in another world to the point of giving me more work to do after
bluntly being told I couldn't make rent this month, and I'd borrowed to make
last month's. As many have said, never work for free, never work without a
contract in place (or cash in your hand). Why assume other people's risks when
there's information asymmetry?

With respect to the code, IP suits are probably the most painful type of suit,
so I'll hold off on pursuing them unless they happen to hit it big. And if
they don't, there's nothing to claim for anyway.

I'm not happy about the prospect of ruining the equity of my co-workers,
worthless as it may be, so unless I'm really having a hard time getting
another job, I won't apply for unemployment benefit. Painful as it is to
continue to suffer a loss for this, I think the relatively small amount might
be worth avoiding the fallout.

For those requesting the country, as this has quietened down a little I can
tell you it's Ireland. The laws on employee/contractor and IP assignment are
relatively clear here, but, obviously, a lawyer is required.

I have been taken for a fool, please learn from my mistakes.

------
GFK_of_xmaspast
You're not selling them out, you're reporting a crime.

------
gtlondon
I am a developer and have been seen many similar "positions" in the past
(particularly 10 years ago, .com boom).

IMO they are intentionally trying to screw you. Do all you can to protect
yourself, but be formal / polite where possible.

------
xutopia
You would do all the employees (and society) a favour by calling them out.

------
LoSboccacc
run. if they get you options, you're gonna get diluted to hell anyway. if they
get you equity, you gonna get ruined by taxes for something which may very
well still be worth not enough in the end. it's probably not even worth
litigating for those. but you can take your ip away and demand a contract for
its transfer, which could at least recap some of your losses. whatever you
decide, I'd suggest having a lawyer write out the details and not acting until
the agreement is in writing.

------
paulsutter
Focus your energy on your next position. These guys are clowns and plotting
retribution just drags you down to their level. Just walk away.

------
BackOfNapkin
I strongly encourage you to consult with an attorney well versed in local
employment law before making any additional statements (either publicly or to
your 'employer').

Certainly do not take any actions or issue any ultimatums until an attorney
has approved of said actions.

------
geofft
If the company is this bad at money so early, are they really likely to get
_better_ at it? This is what a dying company sounds like, not a growing
company.

I have trouble believing you'll be hurting your coworkers. If no salaries are
being paid, they'll be in the same boat as you very soon when they start
trying to claim unemployment.

------
dgtlmoon
do nothing about something that is wrong is evil itself, don't be like
everyone else.

------
CyberDildonics
It sounds like the situation is well within the threshold of complexity that
would benefit from an attorney. You might be able to consult for about 30
minutes and pay around $100 to clear up a lot of questions in a sticky
situation like this.

------
oliwarner
I'm apalled when HN threads like this pop up.

Here's the outside perspective: You're working for them for free. No, sorry,
you have a handshake but good luck taking them to court with that.

If you _want_ to continue work for them and do it just for equity, you can get
around minimum wage rules by being "self employed" on paper and contracting
out to them. You'll have to do your own paperwork but this is also a good
thing. You can invoice them for equity.

A handshake is only worth the paper it's written on. An unpaid invoice is
something you can action.

------
evanwolf
1\. IANAL.

2\. Document everything. Go through your calendar since you first met them and
write up notes for every conversation. What was said and what you thought it
meant, and any artifacts from those meetings (emails, chats, texts,
documents). In a you-said vs. they-said contest, it's often the best
documentation that wins.

3\. Don't leave until your lawyer tells you to. Leaving may cause you to lose
rights to compensation or your IP. Ask...

4\. A local lawyer for yourself and, if the company isn't headquartered in
your country, find a lawyer where the company is based.

Good luck.

\- Phil

------
bhouston
> Startup not paying wages or tax on employees, to claim unemployment benefit
> I have to report them.

They could be considering you as a contractor. Research the difference between
contractor and employee. Depends on your working relationship with them.

EDIT: You can only be a contractor if they are actually paying you. If you are
getting no money, not sure what that means.

~~~
nocash
A lot hangs on this distinction in the law, but the guidelines for determining
seem to strongly favour and employee interpretation. Definitely lawyer
territory though.

~~~
rogerhoward
Being a CTO and being a contractor seem like mutually exclusive conditions, at
least where I'm from (California). It's not B&W entirely, but it's far more
likely than not (at least here) that you should be an employee with that
title.

------
jrgifford
Seems sorta similar to this post I saw a few years ago:
[https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/23920/](https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/23920/)

Best of luck. Definitely leave, should probably talk to a lawyer, and 100%
follow their directions.

------
ses4j
From a personal/financial perspective, you're probably best just walking away:
hiring lawyers is expensive. But walking away silently enables them up to
repeat their crimes. Reporting them criminally and giving them a record will
make it harder for them to victimize more people.

~~~
Silhouette
Careful, please. If the business has been involved in potentially illegal
actions, and OP is or has been involved with the business in ways that aren't
necessarily entirely clear or documented, then OP might have all sorts of
reporting requirements and/or responsibilities in relation to those actions.

This is the kind of situation where you really do need at least an initial
consultation with a suitable lawyer to know where you stand. It might well be
best to have the lawyer also write the appropriate letters to notify the
appropriate people of appropriate things in the appropriate ways and without
saying anything inappropriate that will get OP in trouble unnecessarily.

------
stangeek
Can you be specific about the country? Where I live a similar thing happened
to a friend of mine, and he finally managed to discuss with the employment
agency who agreed to grant him assistance in the end. He didn't have to
mention the company's name in the end.

------
pbreit
It's not clear to me from the summary whether or not you are currently getting
paid. If you are, perhaps an option is to keep working while you find a new
job. I don't totally understand torpedoing the company so you can get your
unemployment insurance.

------
dmuth
Being paid for your work is a basic human right.

Walk.

------
st3v3r
Absolutely report them for breaking the law. If not just for you, but for
everyone else they've fucked over. And don't call it "selling them out". You
have absolutely no obligation to cover for their shady shit.

------
Gabriel_Martin
I think your gut is correct in this case. You're likely not going to get much
out of this other than stress, move on and chalk it up to a learning
experience.

~~~
gk1
This type of reaction just reinforces bad behavior by the people leading these
companies. They'll continue running a shady business and screwing people
because they figure nobody will bother confronting them about it.

------
_Codemonkeyism
Interesting side note, "crux of my problem" let me bet the country is Germany.

~~~
throwanem
How come? I've seen native anglophones use that idiom often enough - pretty
sure I've used it myself, in fact.

~~~
Tenhundfeld
Agreed. I don't see anything Germanic about that phrase. It's part of my
everyday vocabulary, as a native English speaker, and FWIW, crux comes
directly from Latin, meaning cross.

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Annatar
When in doubt, consult a lawyer.

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panlana
If you're young, take it as a life lesson and move on. Whatever financial gain
you get from "going after them" will not be worth the time and emotional costs
of suing. Not to mention the cost of an attorney.

~~~
cmdrfred
In the US the state government will often handle going after them for you. I
imagine other countries have this as well as the US is about 50 years behind
in labor laws.

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meeper16
What's the company name?

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gojomo
Emigrate.

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bitrotburner
Definitely throw them under the bus, immediately.

No good can come from allowing criminals to go about their crimes without
justice.

Perhaps you should name this company here, since this has made the front page
of HN.

~~~
mjevans
Consult a lawyer first. I'm not one, and am not a legal expert but such a
statement sure sounds like potential defamation to me. Make sure you have
proof to back up any statement you make.

