

Google Wallet leak shows off new physical credit cards - chapel
http://www.slashgear.com/google-wallet-leak-shows-off-new-physical-credit-cards-01255253/

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Firehed
Huh. So I'll have one credit card to carry around that will just pass through
the charge to another card I'm carrying around, because none of this stuff is
yet reliable enough to abandon my wallet entirely.

Sorry for the abrasive skepticism here... it's part of being in the industry.
But I see one of two scenarios playing out here:

1) Google becomes (buys/owns/works with/...) a proper Issuing Bank giving out
real lines of credit for a credit card. They get interchange fees when you use
your card, just like any other card issuer. No real value is added to the
equation, and it's yet another service that Google offers which becomes a
nightmare if you need to speak with a human - which when you're dealing with
people's money is quite often. They may have a decently searchable web UI for
your transaction history, but so does Mint.

2) Google does some clever magic where they authorize one of your cards on
file when you swipe your Wallet card, and just pass through the result.
Because they still need to act as an issuing bank here, they either raise
interchange over the real issuing bank of the actual card (store owner gets
screwed), or charge the same or less and eat the loss. Presumably they'll make
up this way by creepily using your purchase history.

Neither of these scenarios does anything to move retailers closer to NFC
adoption (actually useful for Google/Android), and I'm not sure how many
people are willing to have some "one card to rule them all" thing going on,
which is the only real benefit I see to the consumer here.

Having my wallet 3mm thinner isn't enough benefit for me to not pick the best
rewards card based on where I'm shopping, never mind the fact that I don't
trust Google with my financial data (or, more accurately, I don't see any
benefit in giving them access to it)

~~~
mmanfrin
I got the impression this is a lot like that iPhone writeable card -- i.e.,
you load in all your cards and then you can choose which card your Google Card
represents. Lets you ditch all your cards and Google gets you to use wallet
(which means they can push you in to using it as an actual payment wallet).
And by getting _you_ using Google Wallet, it'll encourage NFC adoption.

~~~
yew
That uses a mounted magstripe writer, doesn't it? Or does the card have some
sort of integrated rewriting electronics? I can't find any technical
specifications.

It seems more likely the card will act like a prepaid 'passthrough' card as in
the existing system.

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shuzchen
I wonder how flexible you are in deciding what card you want their physical
card to charge to? Do you log in and toggle the current card it's a proxy for?
Or can you log in later that night and tell google wallet "charge that latte
on the mastercard, charge that toy on the amex?". I'd be really excited if I
could get one google card to replace some other cards, but one of the reasons
I have multiple cards is to separate personal activity from my small business
activity. It'd be really important for me to have those separate.

~~~
zainny
From my understanding of the EMV payment specification
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV>) a card can actually have multiple
applications and when used at a compliant terminal, you are prompted to select
the payment application. In other words, a EMV compliant terminal should
prompt you to select which card you want the charge to go to. Of course this
isn't a terminal behavior you typically see because pretty much any card you
get issued by the bank will only have the one payment app. In my own testing
though, I've come across cards with more than one.

~~~
wmf
Maybe you're from Europe because I think you're talking about stuff that isn't
even close to existing in the US.

~~~
sounders
The US has been extremely slow to adopt this technology despite, the adoption
rates around the world. Visa and MasterCard have set a date of 2015 to push
merchants to have their checkout terminals be EMV compliant or face higher
fraud liability charges.

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ben1040
So the recent change to Google Wallet to let you use any card you wanted
basically worked by creating a virtual credit card that acted as a proxy, and
transmitting that card number using NFC. When the charge hit that virtual
card, they would then process a corresponding charge to your _real_ card.

It looks like they're going to give you the option of getting a physical
representation of that proxy card.

One thing I'm curious about though is how chargebacks get handled with this
system. Say I have the proxy card pointing at my Amex, I go buy something, and
Google forwarded the charge to my Amex. Now for whatever reason I need to do a
chargeback. Who do I talk to, Google, or Amex? How would that even work?

~~~
jessriedel
Does Google forward the charge to Amex, or does the Google Wallet Apps just
simulate the Amex card's NFC signal, so that the merchant can't tell the
difference? If the latter, you obviously deal with Amex

~~~
sounders
Google creates a onetime virtual card number that it sends to the merchant and
that the merchant can process. The onetime card number never changes for that
transaction, so a chargeback and return can always be processed for that
order. I'm sure Google plays a part in the chargeback process due to the fact
it acquired TxVia in April.

[http://support.google.com/wallet/bin/answer.py?hl=en&ans...](http://support.google.com/wallet/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2740044)

In regards to reward points- This article also mentions "Certain transactions
may not earn your typical rewards or be eligible for certain benefits. Learn
more about rewards. Please contact the seller with any questions about your
order."

Most people seem to use their credit cards to pay for things instead of their
debit cards to get reward points. This will definitely discourage people.

~~~
drivebyacct2
I don't think that's accurate as of a week or two ago.

Er, actually, I think that's just for online purchases. Google Wallet in the
past has used a Masterpaid prepaid card for NFC transactions and my
understanding was that the recent update causes a more direct credit card
emulation as it will allow to use any sort of VISA/whatever.

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AndyIngram
Source with more images: [http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/11/01/introducing-
the-phys...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/11/01/introducing-the-physical-
google-wallet-card-coming-soon-to-google-wallet-and-more-new-features/)

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ablefire
A way for Google to add value would be to distribute transactions
efficiently/optimally among my existing accounts. If they know the terms,
promotions and limits on my various cards and bank accounts then they can
figure out that a particular transaction is most advantageous to me if it goes
against Card A since it gets me a lower rate or a cash back or I have more
head-room. Looking at transactions over time Google can predict and optimize
how my spending gets allocated. I think I'd like that if it was done well.

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stevenwagner
Glad to hear I can just carry one reward card instead of card for every
grocery store I visit. Glad to hear Ill be able to use google for person to
person payments instead of paypal. Perhaps they will even get the same
functionality as the bitinstant card.

[http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/08/20/bitinstant-may-
brid...](http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/08/20/bitinstant-may-bridge-
virtual-real-world-currencies-international-bitcoin-credit-card/)

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moocow01
I'd use this and like it much more than the digital wallet.

The idea of my phone dying and leaving me with no means of communication and
no means of payment sounds like a good way to make a bad day go to much worse.

As someone who travels frequently on business and is in places where I dont
know a soul and arrive at sometimes odd hours - that scenario is terrifying to
me.

~~~
Gustomaximus
Some banks have protection for this. As long as you can get to a phone you
then ring the bank who will issue you with a pin you take to an ATM. This will
give you access to emergency fund while they courier you a new card.

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xoail
I would like to see Wallet Card act as a wrapper of all my cards and
automatically figure out best card to use to charge ultimately based on
balances, reward points and may be split charges between cards if required.
But with this change in Google Wallet, NFC adoption among merchants will
become even harder.

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drjenkins
The card will likely be reprogrammable using NFC to 'become' whichever card
you choose. Several large banks have had this in the works for a while, but it
seems like Google will beat them to it.

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soldermont001
It would be nice if it could generate a new number for each transaction.

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tnuc
Wasn't the (future) physical card one of the things that they went on about
when Google Wallet was initially launched?

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drcode
Note to Google: If the world hears about your new secure payment system via a
LEAK you're off to pretty bad start.

~~~
avree
Uh, what? They have engineers architecting their payment system's security.

The screenshots are handled by possible interns, staff, anyone associated with
the project, etc.

There's no reason why a leak would have anything to do with system security.
That's absurd.

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peppertree
I thought google wallet was supposed to replace the cards I carry, not adding
another one to it.

~~~
mingramjr
In this scenario. You leave all your cards at home and carry the Google Wallet
card. Every retailer does not have NFC.

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blhack
Looks like google wallet is a not-so-well-liked app:

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.walletnfcrel&hl=en)

~~~
dmix
Seems like they deployed a version that broke the app on Nexus S.

The remaining one stars are users complaining about lack of support on various
android phones.

So looks like people are really interested in using it but can't get proper
access to it, those than can do like it,

~~~
Firehed
So:

1) A software update can now render you unable to make payments.

2) You're only able to pay people if you've bought one of a few specific
pieces of hardware.

Traditional payment cards suffer neither of these problems which is probably
why Google's planning to offer this... but overall it sounds like this is just
adding more complexity into the already mindlessly-complex payments
infrastructure.

~~~
drivebyacct2
So we know who the anti-Google-at-all-costs is in this particular thread. Why
don't you stop spreading misinformation about it when you clearly don't
understand the current Wallet offering or the vision for it?

~~~
Firehed
I'm not anti-Google, I just don't see how their product adds value to the
equation in any payment scenario. I use and like a lot of their offerings. But
I'm in the payments industry, know what can and does go wrong, and would never
touch an offering from a company notorious for being so hard to get in touch
with (unless you're giving them tens of thousands of dollars in Adwords
revenue; even with our paid apps accounts I have no idea how to get the
support we pay for)

~~~
drivebyacct2
>would never touch an offering from a company notorious for being so hard to
get in touch with

I find that to be a very reasonable cause of concern.

