

Basecamp Breeze - Private Email Mailing Lists from 37signals - yesimahuman
http://basecamp.com/breeze

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tptacek
_Your messages are private and won’t show up on Google, Yahoo, or Bing._

In other words, HN, this product is not targeted to people like you, because
people who read HN don't say things like "will my emails show up on Google
Yahoo and Bing?"

~~~
dmix
This is pedantic. Copywriting has to reach a broad audience. Not all products
designed for the layman are useless to the technical.

~~~
tptacek
No, I think this is the opposite of true. It is very easy for copy that
attempts to include nerds to alienate normals, or, for that matter, for
products that would be more lucrative if targeted to normals to lose
marketability by trying to include nerds.

People trying to get traction with new products should be unembarrassed by
featuresets and supporting copy that targets normal people and irritates
nerds. 37signals offerings are a great example of that technique executed
well.

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alberth
Does anyone else find 37signals competitor comparison dishonest/disingenuous?

For example, when 37signals compares Breeze to Google Group [1], Google Group
steps #3-6 are all the same "step" but 37signals breaks it out to multiple
artificial steps to give the illusion there's more work in the sign-up process
for Google Groups (when there's not).

What 37signals did was make each form field on the same sign-up page into
multiple "steps".

If this same logic was applied to 37signals Breeze sign-up process, then their
process would in fact be nearly 10 steps as well since a "step" is required to
input your List Name, another "step" for credit card info, etc.

This seems a bit shady ... just saying.

[1] <http://basecamp.com/breeze/compare#google>

~~~
sktrdie
Absolutely. Also I usually have to get up and search in my pocket for my
credit card, and then type it in. Time wise that counts for at least 3-4 steps
on basecamp's "timescale". Only companies with really good reputation can pull
off such a simple product and make some money out of it - and I'm not even
sure they'll be successful at it.

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MrAlmostWrong
I'm curious as to why they put this under the Basecamp brand. While it can be
used by teams, it sort of gets lost on the homepage and its target market
probably won't even discover it. Why not make it a separate product that can
handle its own marketing and brand without trying to be interchanged with
Basecamp?

~~~
ricardobeat
If they did, it would be just another mail group provider, charging ten bucks
instead of zero. I think they are selling the Basecamp/37signals brand image
as much as the service itself.

~~~
ForrestN
They have lots of products that aren't branded as Basecamp. I think the
likelier implication is that we're going to start seeing more bite-sized
Basecamp apps like this. The pricing model for this one is very app store.

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akmiller
Not sure why anyone would pay 10.00 for this. We offer this functionality free
in our app at <http://teamloopapp.com> and not only that the people on the
receiving end can choose to get via SMS as well. I'm sure you can find it for
free in many other places too.

~~~
bdunn
Basecamp Breeze is targeting people like my mom, who would want to setup an
email "club" for her church prayer group.

Pretty positive she'd have no idea what to do after reading "simple team
management for coaches" — even if you offer the exact same functionality as
Breeze.

(product messaging > feature lists)

~~~
akmiller
True, and I didn't mean to suggest that people should just use my application
instead of this. I guess I was just pointing out that this to me is a simple
feature (one that I think I added in less than a days time to our app) and
they've turned it into a full-fledged product that they are charging for. As
the commenter above stated, I guess once you have the rep of a 37signals you
can charge for this sort of thing.

------
pestaa
This seems to emphasize the wrong features.

> _No need to remember email addresses._

In the last couple of years, I had to copy-paste a few addresses to send an
email and that was the worst case.

> _No important announcement is missed._

Hm, have you seen my father managing his email? Also, when you take email
overload into account, this is clearly weaker than nagging alerts in a
collaboration software.

> _If you can send an email, you can use Breeze._

Certainly I can _send_ posts to a Breeze list, but what if a misbehaving user
needs to get removed from the list? What if I need to rename my group email?
There are a few more tasks involved for a list administrator than a regular
end-user. The premise might be good, the phrasing is not.

> _Your messages are private and won’t show up on Google, Yahoo, or Bing._

Unless someone leaks it, yes, so this is a false sense of security; and what
implicit publicity do people expect from email anyway? They are trained to
trust their email account too much already.

And what if my group works just fine until I need to add the 51st member?
Darng, now we have to migrate. It definitely smells like a limitation just for
its own sake.

Overall I don't think this fits well into the well designed product line of
37signals, but then I welcome _anything_ that keeps people from using Facebook
for simple group communication.

~~~
nopal
This is the sort of over-critical analysis that is too prevalent on HN.

There's a counterargument to any decision, and it seems like you're trying to
find ways to disparage something you don't like.

I'm not sure any value was added beyond stating the obvious limitations (read:
design decisions).

~~~
pestaa
Yes, it's a simple product and my review was probably too in-depth, although
if there's any one place to submit it I thought HN would be it.

Perhaps stating the obvious is not counter-productive if the product in
question is not well thought of, and considering 37signals' history
(especially Basecamp Next) I'd argue it applies to Breeze.

I tried to phrase my opinion not to be overly cynical and I'm sorry if my
comment still remained offensive.

~~~
wissler
For heaven's sake, don't apologize for giving an honest opinion. If we had to
apologize every time someone in the world found something to get offended by
then half our speech would be apologies for the other half.

~~~
pestaa
If it matters, I stood completely by my statements. It is not always easy to
evaluate whether my tone is appropriate or not, which is why I followed the
path of the least resistance.

~~~
wissler
I thought your statements were insightful and relevant. Some of the the time
the HN community is right that somebody is being gratuitously critical or
missing the point, but rest of the time they are just touchy and don't want to
hear any good criticism.

Apologizing for _their_ unreasonableness only encourages it.

------
codva
How many times can somebody monetize listservs? Good on them for seeing the
opportunity. Now I've got to get started on my paid Gopher app :)

------
lukethomas
Does anyone else find the cursive (Narrative) font tough to read?

~~~
mpyne
For once my org's third-world IT infrastructure (IE 7) comes in handy.
Everything is gloriously degraded down and readable and with only slight
layout breaks.

------
greattypo
I wonder how this compares to Google Groups (which has gotten awfully bloated
lately).

It's interesting how 37s continues to eschew using high value domains
(breeze123.com, campfirenow.com, highrisehq.com).

~~~
mikle
I get daily / weekly digests for all of my Google Groups. I didn't need to see
the UI in months.

Looking at it it is a bit feature heavy, but since it doesn't interfere with
my day to day I don't think I will be using breeze...

------
okhudeira
Who is the target audience of Basecamp Breeze? Is it meant for business use or
personal use?

Based on the example emails addresses (my-book-club, classic-movie-club etc.)
on the front page, I assume it's meant for personal use; after all, most
business have email servers that can easily handle/manage email lists.

On that note, I believe the "Company Announcement" images on
<http://basecamp.com/breeze/compare> should be replaced with a non-company
email (@37signals.com), something more similar to the email examples on the
front page (my-little-pony-fanatics@breeze123.com).

Lastly, if it is targeted at non-businesses, using the Basecamp brand, which
is primarily used by businesses, is a bit confusing.

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eberfreitas
I would like to know the reason why they used the "basecamp" brand for this
instead of releasing it under the name of "breeze" alone, like any of their
other products. I'm sure there is a very good one!

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instakill
Is this a joke? I'm really struggling to understand if this is an actual
thing.

Seriously, who would subject themselves to this reply-all hell?!

~~~
mpyne
Open source developers do, almost by definition (this is just a listserv, but
explained in terms the target audience would understand).

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shabda
This must be a new pricing for 37signals. 10$ One time - access forever. Is
there any other product where they have a one time payment?

~~~
codva
Pinboard is a one time fee - that gradually goes up as they add members. It's
currently right around $10.

~~~
Argorak
Half-half, the archive account costs a recurring fee.

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webwanderings
Yahoogroups and Googlegroups are hugely used on daily basis. It is just that
there is nobody else credible out there to take over their market. Yahoo has
locked in user's archives so it is even impossible for people to move.

------
webwanderings
I guess that $10 does not provide a migration utility to move Yahoo/Google
content out. Nope, not going to work for me.

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ricardobeat
I'm curious what the long-term plan for this service is. Surely it won't be
sustainable at a one-off $10 fee?

~~~
rbchv
I totally agree. I don't get why 37 signals would be at all interested in
taking one time $10 payments from Moms and Pops when they have monthly
recurring revenue coming in from a bunch of companies. Even if they have the
infrastructure, just the support overhead from un-tech friendly folks will be
a pain.

------
smnrchrds
Dear 37signals,

Thank for your detailed step-to-step guide for creating a Yahoo or Google
group! I'm making my first mailing list in Google Groups right now.

Sincerely, grateful user

PS: With apologies to <http://dearblankpleaseblank.com/>

