
Found: A Drug Catapult at the U.S.-Mexico Border - bcaulfield
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/drug-catapult-us-mexico-border
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std_throwaway
The Mexicans should educate themselves about siege weapons. There is a much
superior design that could launch heavier projectiles over a greater distance
without sacrificing firing rate.

~~~
civilian
The trick is that you want your payload to be intact on impact. :3 Staining
the Arizona desert with marijuana mulch doesn't help anyone except the
jackrabbits.

~~~
Normal_gaussian
Time delay air cushion or parachute could resolve those problems pretty
cheaply.

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M_Grey
This may come as a shock, but the drug dealing world is not full of rocket
scientists.

~~~
dsacco
The drug dealing world is resourceful. I would be shocked to the point of
incredulity if the primary obstacle to implementing basic improvements
casually mentioned in HN comments was simply that they didn't have anyone they
could consult on the matter.

They're not going to be developing in-house nuclear weaponry, no, but cartels
can _and do_ find intelligent, experienced and competent people who can help
optimize their supply chains.

I don't think it's a matter of them not realizing there are superior designs;
I think it's a matter of superior designs not being worth the extra cost or
somehow having an unintended result.

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mirimir
They've been known to kidnap "consultants" :(

One cartel had a large-scale meshnet.

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M_Grey
You're not going to find a specialist in "Whole sub designs and manufacture"
anymore than you could kidnap one person who would teach you how to build the
space shuttle. You'd need to kidnap teams of specialists, which I would assume
might draw international attention.

~~~
mirimir
True. I recall reading that they kidnapped people to build their meshnet.

~~~
M_Grey
That must have been a terrifying and hopeless situation to be in.

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mirimir
Indeed :(

They were also co-opting local ISPs to identify activist bloggers.

All driven by the US drug war.

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M_Grey
Insane. I don't doubt that legalizing drugs would have relatively short-term
impacts as _some_ people who would have otherwise never tried them, try them,
and some of those become hooked. How anyone can look at that, and compare it
to the insane and eternal war we've chosen instead, and find the war a better
choice is baffling to me.

~~~
mirimir
Yes, it's been a disaster for several South and Central American countries :(

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pingou
I love the ingenuity of drug dealers. Not as sophisticated as the drug
submarine though [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-
submarine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine)

~~~
ra1n85
So cool.

Love the following engineering problem and fix: "The newer models pipe their
exhaust along the bottom to cool it before venting it, making the boat even
less susceptible to infrared detection"

~~~
yourapostasy
The cat and mouse between these guys and the naval/Coast Guard units of the
involved nations might in the far future see the introduction of full-blown
diesel-electric, liquefied oxygen-bearing, water-cooled exhaust submersibles.
Battery-powered and make the legs of the run only at night. Diesel plant is
fed stored oxygen, gas expansion powers compressor-free air conditioning.
Metal-oxide-based CO2 scrubber is regenerated from diesel generator heat while
engine is run during day-time to recharge, as the smugglers stop and snorkel
stationary to avoid wake-detection. Noise-isolating mounts reduce detectable
range of running diesel generator. At or near the destination port, a
disguised tender trans-loads the shipment, and resupplies diesel/food/reverse-
shipment-goods. Between those technologies and operational discipline, it
would be a big PITA to detect.

It's a good thing these future submarines would be immensely more expensive,
and narcos are not known as good employers guaranteeing solid operational
secrecy, as such an unusual setup would bound to get disgruntled/prideful
operatives blabbing/boasting. By the time they get around to it, involved
nations will probably litter the nearby ocean floors with a SOSUS-style
dragnet, and that will likely put this smuggling route out of reach of all but
nation-state-grade narco-cartels willing to spend about multiple billions in
R&D and $1B US per construction unit to upgrade to military-grade diesel-
electric submarines with their more advanced acoustic signature mitigation
systems and protocols.

~~~
M_Grey
You also have to consider that the US at least would be strongly inclined to
bomb that kind of thing out of existence... it would after all be a huge
potential threat if used for something other than smuggling drugs. We're not
trying to fight the cartel subs like we would an invading military, and if we
did, they'd have no chance. The payoff stops being worth it when fucking up
means you lose the sub and the cargo without warning.

~~~
yourapostasy
The US Navy is already involved a fair amount, as the article described the
torpedoes getting detected by their acoustical signatures. That is not US
Coast Guard-built skills, equipment, and expertise, so I wouldn't be surprised
if it turns out the military is involved way more than we are let on.

This presents an interesting operational challenge for the US Navy. Say they
are authorized to engage and terminate without warning any submarine operating
within US territorial waters that is not a registered civilian submarine
broadcasting its presence, or another US military submarine. Just how would US
naval underwater assets know who each other are without compromising their
mission if it involves staying undetected? The closest approximation I can
think of is encrypted sub ID and anticipated operating theater within the next
24 hours, using a Gertrude-like system or some other two-way submarine
communication (and there aren't any good current choices for systems in that
field).

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enimodas
Makes me wonder how a modern catapult or spear thrower would look like and be
able to do with our current material science and engineering.

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humanrebar
Modern mass launchers are canons, guns, and rail guns.

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Mithaldu
Rail guns maybe, but cannons and guns rely on explosives and play in a very
different field than the things mentioned by OP.

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Sharlin
Is being propelled by the release chemical potential energy qualitatively that
much different than by gravitational or elastic potential energy?

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eigenvalue
It's certainly much louder, which matters a lot in this application!

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slacka
I wonder how much is moved by drones?

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Chilinot
Not much I would reckon. The catapult is probably a more efficient device for
getting the drugs to the other side.

Having to fly a drone back and forth takes time. Unless they have a very large
drone capable of carrying large quantities of drugs, I don't see the benefit.

~~~
prodmerc
Multiple small drones, single control point, flying in formation? Would be a
sight to see heh

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walshemj
which could probably be knocked out by a simple jammer

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prodmerc
Fallback to pre-programmed route on signal loss? :D

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nv-vn
I wonder if they had a catapult to send the money over to the other side.

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cm2187
And what happens when the drug and the money collide just above the border?

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Waterluvian
Higgs Boson?

~~~
glennos
10 points for Gryffindor.

~~~
adiabatty
You should have posted this right under the GP, not the parent.

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isaac_is_goat
The wall just got 100 feet higher.

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6stringmerc
Local child with protractor assists re-calibration...

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loeg
Shoot, trial and error would be fine.

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ChuckMcM
Clearly the cartels need to set up a "punkin chunkin"[1] contest where the
winner takes home some cash and the cartel gets their device. Then every year
they get an additional 'chunking' machine and they can drive them back and
forth along the border periodically sending their payloads several thousand
feet inland.

[1] [https://www.punkinchunkin.com/](https://www.punkinchunkin.com/)

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tlow
I just hope that I'm never kidnapped by a cartel because I think there are a
lot of rather low tech (but tech) means for them to circumvent border control.
I'd never ever want to associate with these groups, but I imagine it's a bit
of a nightmare trying to prevent movement of desirable and valuable goods
(drugs, objectively have value according to most news reports on seizures,
street value estimates are quoted). Seems like decreasing demand might be a
higher ROI investment than trying to prevent said smuggling.

One thing that worries me is the potential for wildlife to be abused as a
means of smuggling.

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KON_Air
Wouldn't a ballista with hollow projectile filled with the stuff work better
and be mobile or should I stop giving them ideas?

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masklinn
Ballistas are no more (or less) mobile than catapults, are harder to maintain
and have a lower payload if you use them for transport. They have a good
precision and piercing power, but much less payload, even if you include the
entire bolt.

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failrate
Walls don't work to stop contraband; good economic policy does.

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williamle8300
I disagree. Walls stop physical objects from passing through it. Good economic
policy has the primary function of building the national economy––economic
policy has no role in curtailing contraband.

~~~
failrate
Counterexample: the lack of regulations around pharmaceutical prices in the US
leads to illegal imports of identical pharmaceuticals from Canada.

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williamle8300
It's not lack of regulating prices that causes it... it's the proliferation of
intellectual property laws in America that were written to protect
corporations. This is what creates the need to get knock-off drugs.

~~~
failrate
Canada has intellectual property laws as well.

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Pica_soO
Wouldnt a Lastensegler drone design be far more efficient?

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dispo001
The technology question should probably be:

Would it work with people?

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stephengillie
Would you put your brain inside a robotic trebuchet?

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hungrygs
It's going to take quite a wall to stop people from catapulting over it, onto
an airbed-like structure.

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coss
Just wait till they hear about drones.

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rb666
Making Trump's wall even more pointless!

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xienze
I mean yeah, we really should just leave the border wide open since after all,
if you can't stop border shenanigans 100% you shouldn't bother at all. Might
as well remove all our border patrol agents as well since a non-zero number of
people still get through despite their presence.

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adekok
$21 Billion for a wall is a lot.

Penn & Teller did a show on Immigration. Tthey got a bunch of Mexicans to
build a wall. And yes, after it was built, they asked the workers to try to
get across it.

The wall slowed them down by about 2 minutes. Which isn't really worth it.

Any wall built along the border will likely be similar in efficacy. And even
if the wall is perfect, tunnelling under it won't be a problem.

TBH, You'd probably be better off increasing _detection_ along the border.
Leave it open, but make sure you catch everyone $21 billion will buy a lot of
equipment that can be hidden, and a lot of border patrols.

~~~
xienze
I think it would be interesting if the internet were around 50+ years ago so
we could hear everyone respond to news of the Berlin Wall being constructed
with "LOLOLOL ever heard of a ladder?"

Walls do work. Not 100% because nothing is, but they absolutely do. Ask
Hungary how it's been working out for them:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier)

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lobotryas
The Berlin Wall worked because it was backed by fear and guns. The Soviets had
no problem arresting and torturing or outright shooting anyone who tried to
cross. I think you understand what I'm trying to point out here.

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xienze
How about Hungary's current wall?

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jimjimjim
I was expecting a trebuchet

