

Why Geeks Should Love HP WebOS - unwiredben
http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/05/10-reasons-for-geeks-to-love-hp-webos/

======
noonespecial
I love it simply because its the best SSH experience of all of the
smartphones. One click gets me the phones _real_ terminal and then "ssh -l me
whereever.com". No bogus setup screens, with each server requiring a 5 minute
fill in the blank session to connect to, no menus full of special keys to
transmit (most covered with the orange key), just pure .ssh/id_dsa public key
in my home-dir _win_.

Its 10x easier than the best thing on my ipad and its with me 24/7 because it
also happens to be my phone. Other problems with WebOS and Pre? Sure there
are. This makes up for all of them. Smartphone makers: rent-seek my terminal,
you lose.

~~~
daniel_solano
Have you tried Maemo? With Maemo, I can just launch an xterm and ssh to my
heart's content. For that matter, I can also set up an SSH server and ssh into
the device. I'm guessing Meego probably has the same support.

In my experience, it's the closest experience to have a full Linux box that I
can stick in my pocket.

~~~
rsanchez1
Yeah, I can do all of that with my Pre 2 as well, and I had been doing it on
my Pre for a while.

Heck, with xterm on my Pre 2, I can run a Debian or Ubuntu ARM rootfs and
actually have a full Linux experience in my pocket.

~~~
mahrain
Is there any way to connect a display/keyboard/mouse (the input devices
perhaps over bluetooth) so it can even be a desktop?

~~~
unwiredben
Bluetooth keyboards work on webOS 2.0 and later. The webOS emulator runs as
x86 virtual machine and uses your keyboard and mouse from the host PC. Some
people have boot that image directly on PC hardware with varying degrees of
success.

------
brianwillis
_Just tap on the “Just Type” search bar and enter
“upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart” (the classic NES Konami code!); an
icon appears that lets you toggle this mode on and off._

Wait, really? If that's not a joke, then it's kind of cool.

~~~
gkatsev
Yep, the konami code to get into dev mode has been in webos since the very
beginning. I am talking webos 1.0.

Also, WebOs is great. I really like it and the UI but so far the devices have
been fairly unimpressive. The original Palm Pre was good for about 3 months.
After which android and iphone have gotten so many updates.

If the Palm Pre 3 lives up to it's ideal, it would definitely be worth a look
but unfortunately, as cool as the OS is, the hardware just doesn't match.

~~~
rbanffy
I am quite happy with my Pre 2 (a gift by the developer program - they aren't
sold in Brazil). There are a couple issues, as it appears to have never been
tested here - GPS seems slow and may have a bug in its software, various
reception weirdnesses (hard to get it to use 3G), but, overall, it's a very
solid and responsive phone.

I expect the 3 to up that a notch. Right now, I prefer it over iPhone and
Android, as actually doing things (as opposed as to opening programs) happens
more fluidly.

------
benjoffe
Wow, browsing that site from my phone is a crippling experience, they have
this:

    
    
        <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, maximum-scale=1.0, user-scalable=0" /> 
    

..yet they haven't actually optimized the site properly for a small display,
meaning it's not actually possible to scroll/zoom to see any full line of text
(tested on iPhone).

~~~
lukifer
Strange, it works for me on iPhone 4. You might also try two-finger scrolling,
which is a hidden workaround for independently scrollable divs.

~~~
benjoffe
Tested again, seems yes I can pan sideways (not sure why I couldn't before)
but still can't zoom which makes no sense when the doc is wider than the
viewport.

------
GeneralMaximus
_sigh_

I remember getting excited when the Pre first came out. Sadly, it wasn't
available in India. It still isn't. This is why Android will take over the
mobile world: it's ubiquitous. Also, Samsung and HTC, the two largest players
in the Android market, actually care about markets other than the USA and
Europe. The Galaxy S II, for example, will launch in 120 countries.

~~~
rrrazdan
True, why would I want to get an iPhone when I know it won't be serviced in
India. India is a very smartphone hungry market, and Apple is doing itself a
great disservice by not selling here.

PS:- Apple does sell, iPhone 3GS and iPad 2 in India. Except the iPhone, every
other product is available within a week of the US launch. So the iPhone
situation is quite strange.

------
jsz0
I was hoping Palm would eventually license WebOS to companies that could make
better hardware and offer more desirable form factors. WebOS is nice but the
original Pre was just truly awful hardware. Under powered, fragile, terrible
keyboard, screen was too small, etc. It doesn't look like the other WebOS
devices released since have really improved on this much. Unfortunately HP
would never consider licensing so hopefully they at least look at the
SmartPhone market and realize people seem to like slim devices with high
resolution screens. Big fat sliders with small low resolution screens have a
very limited market these days.

~~~
potatolicious
I agree, but this is a problem that plagues Android too, though it's slowly
getting better.

Even now though, hold an iPhone 4 in one hand, and hold the Nexus S in the
other. Both are fine, fast phones with a wide array of features... but one
feels plasticky and cheap, while the other feels solid, almost as if it was
hewn out of a solid piece of glass.

Samsung, LG, et al really need to get their shit together. Apple sets a _very_
high bar for manufacturing precision, materials use, and industrial design. I
feel like the OEMs are slowly getting the design aspect sorted out, but every
time I see a new Android device I can't help but be disappointed at the cheap
materials and generally good-but-not-great assembly.

~~~
trezor
_Even now though, hold an iPhone 4 in one hand, and hold the Nexus S in the
other. Both are fine, fast phones with a wide array of features..._

But one feels dated, awkward and like it belongs 5 years ago with some light
finishing polish to cover it up. Seriously dated. Do. Not. Want.

Samsung doesn't need to get their shit together. Just look at the Samsung
Galaxy S II preorders. They are the highest ever recovered for any device. I
think Samsung is doing just fine with their so-called "cheap-feeling" phone.

So sure. If things like the physical finish matters more to you than the
actual capabilities of the device, then sure, continue buying Apple stuff. In
a world where every competitor is cheaper, more open and offers more choice,
this is really the only reason one could possibly have for choosing Apple
these days.

~~~
jodrellblank
Are you saying the iPhone 4 feels like it belongs 5 years ago and is
"seriously dated"?

You realise that's a year before iPhone 1 was released and at a time when the
"Best smartphone" category (
<http://reviews.cnet.com/4321-6452_7-6600061.html> ) had Nokia N95 and Windows
Mobile 6 in it and mostly no touchscreen, no multitouch devices?

 _this is really the only reason one could possibly have for choosing Apple
these days._

Untrue and inflamatory trolling. The app store or specific apps, iTunes store
integration, familiarity, preference for iOS, loyalty to Apple corporation,
integration with Apple TV, fashion,

~~~
trezor
_You realise that's a year before iPhone 1 was released_

My bad. So 4 years ago it was the best, despite lacking 3G. 4 years later and
next to nothing has changed. I honestly think it warrants being labeled
"dated".

 _Untrue and inflamatory trolling. The app store or specific apps, iTunes
store integration, familiarity, preference for iOS, loyalty to Apple
corporation, integration with Apple TV, fashion,_

The app store is in my opinion inferior to Android Market. And the constant
changes which Steve goes about with ensures that fewer and fewer developers
will put up with it. The iTunes integration _and requirement_ is for most
people a bug, not a feature.

Preference for iOS is like you said, a preference, but it's hardly warranted.
This thing haven't moved an inch since launch.

Loyalty to Apple corporation is a mental handicap to everyone not bitten by
Steve Jobs RDF. Why on earth would you be loyal to a corporation? I'm loyal to
me and my needs, and I want the best. The iPhone isn't.

Integration with Apple TV, a product useless in most parts of the world. Gee
thanks. I'll consider it once Apple opens its TV/Movie store where I live,
something they haven't done 3 years after they launched the music store.

Fashion? Are you serious? It may have been fashion a year ago, but right now
everyone are getting Android phones. Apple haven't gotten any successor to the
iPhone 4 out, and most Android phones in sale now, not to mention the dual-
core models coming out as we speak, surpass the iPhone 4 on every metric.

The iPhone was a success based on it being the king of the smartphone game,
and now it is slowly but surely lagging behind. Unless Apple does something
unheard of with the iPhone 5 (including a near-complete rewrite of iOS) they
will still be lagging when it comes out. They will release a device with dated
software on day one and then they have lost. They will no longer be the better
or premium option, they'll just have a glossy look.

I realize I'm an iPhone owner gone Android-fanatic. Yes. I am biased. But
right now, the iPhone objectively has very little appeal unless you are
burdened with the loyalty-handicap.

~~~
zygen
HN should add a "report troll" link for comments like this.

~~~
trezor
I think Apple is starting to lose the mobile war where they used to be kings.
I don't think that telling people with the loyalty-handicap that their
misplaced corporate loyalty is not a globally shared opinion nor truth
qualifies as trolling.

But while I (obviously) disagree with your opinion, you are entitled to yours
just as I am to mine. Have an upvote.

~~~
sigzero
There is nothing to indicate definitively what you state.

------
mdiep
If HP made an iPod Touch competitor, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I don't
want to buy another phone, but I'd love to have a WebOS device to play with.

~~~
mgkimsal
Agreed - been saying for years that Palm screwed themselves over by trying to
get in to the phone market with the Pre. They should have gone after
reinventing the "PDA" market which they'd invented years earlier. Something
like ipod touch with webOS 2 years ago would have, imo, allowed Palm to be a
much different beast today.

~~~
Apocryphon
Agreed agreed! I don't care for a smartphone, and don't need a tablet- bring
back the PDA! Palm needs to find its roots, not try to compete with Apple and
Google/HTC head-on. If HP was smart, they'd step out of the fray and let
Microsoft/Nokia/RIM try to deal with it.

------
michaelpinto
You know what's lacking from this list? A killer feature that both Android or
iOS lacks. And that doesn't just have to be software, it can be the backing of
other high profile manufacturers or a super low price point. The problem is
that when you don't have market share you have to have bells and whistles the
get geeks excited. I love HP as a company, and they're great as making stuff —
but making an operating system is a different ball game of sorts.

~~~
unwiredben
Good point... if I was writing this again, I'd mention the Synergy system that
ties in data sources from email, contacts, and calendar sites online into the
core webOS PIM apps, giving you a unified view of everything. I didn't list it
because it's a bit hard to build on, but I feel like it's the stand out
feature.

Oh, and really nice multitasking. Effortless app management... but those are
more user concerns.

~~~
newman314
Well, now that the Google Tasks API is out, that should get integrated too.

Synergy is a great idea and it works for the most part. Still needs
improvement though as some calendars have issues syncing.

------
slowpoison
If HP really wants developers behind it, they should consider giving away
these devices to the developers. Even a $500 phone is a cheap investment with
high returns, when made on a developer who's going to invest time (and money),
is going to learn mostly by herself, and release an app in the market, even if
in the hopes of making money for herself.

With Android already doing well, I don't see a developer risking her time as
well as money on Palm, when it's uncertain how much success she'll achieve.

~~~
rsanchez1
They were giving away Pre 2's. They probably still are giving them away if
they still have them in stock.

~~~
jackson71
According to the HP webOS Developer Forums' Hardware Section, the offer's
done. In fact, a lot of developers who took part are still waiting for theirs
from back in February/March. The Pre 2 giveaway to developers really could
have been executed better, IMO. Some folks who were approved back then don't
even know if they'll still get one, which is disconcerting. Google can drop
5,000 special-edition Samsung tablets in _a day_ , and HP's had almost _three
months_ to fulfill.

I respect that they could have just not given any away in the first place, but
HP's in a critical spot right now trying to keep webOS relevant with
developers--especially given that many in the first wave of webOS developers
from '09-'10 have already long left the platform. Better communication on the
status of the program and fulfillment would have gone a _long_ way. I'm really
hoping they can work the kinks out of the system when it comes to things like
this with the resources HP has on-hand.

~~~
yardie
This is just anecdotal, but I signed up and received my developer Pre2 in
about 2 weeks. I assume I must have gotten in before the rush because I signed
on as soon as I heard about it.

On the other hand, I've been waiting 4 and 6 months to get a Cr48 laptop from
Google and not a peep. So its not like only HP is the only one bad at
communicating.

~~~
slowpoison
Did Google promise to send you one? Or did you fill out a questionnaire in the
hopes of them sending you one?

------
moeffju
I really want to like WebOS. I did when the original Pre came out, but the
hardware was only so-so and the marketing was too little.

Now, the new hardware looks really slick and the Enyo framework is super
powerful. Again I was happy... Until I tried to sign up in their dev center.
It's a many step process during which you have to register with the IRS, for
example. Then you have to email them and ask for access to the Enyo SDK. Then
they send you a form letter back. I have lost almost all interest by now.

Palm... I really want to like you. Don't make it so hard.

~~~
deepGem
You need to fill in the tax crap if u want the developer access and the Enyo
early access. In other words if you are hoping to get any revenues from your
apps. You also need a paypal account. Just for the SDK you can stick to the
community member level.

------
comex
"You don’t have to jailbreak or root your device. What other platforms call
jailbreaking or rooting, we call entering developer mode."

As an iOS jailbreaker, _< 3_

I mean, it removes a bit of the fun, but still.

I ought to get a Pre.

~~~
jackson71
Having had a Pre since the day Sprint launched it in 2009, it's truly a
hackerphone for those that want to customize their experience, and one of the
primary reasons I've evangelized the platform and my experience developing for
and tinkering with it to all the developer friends of mine that'd listen.

They got it right from the start. No bootloader crap or jailbreaking
necessary. Preware from webOS Internals is just icing on the cake.

~~~
firefoxman1
And all user-made the patches available make the phone so much better

------
zcid
I loved my Pre when I was still with Sprint. By far the most enjoyable to use
out of all the phones I've had. My biggest complaint was (and still is) the
lack of applications. If HP is able increase their app library, they will
quite possibly find me buying another WebOS device.

I really hope they succeed if only because of the openness of their phones. It
feels amazing to have full access to your device out of the box without having
to jump through 1.5 million jailbreak hoops.

------
Argorak
Why Geeks should hate HP WebOS:

Only one recent device (at the moment) and it is carrier exclusive in most
countries (for me, in germany). I like the new devices and the operating
system, but sadly, I also have a good contract with a different carrier.

So: sorry HP, but i'll pass. I never bought a locked phone and I will not
start because of your hypergeeky operating system.

~~~
p1itopre
You have been able to buy the unlocked Pre2 for quite some time:
[http://www.shopping.hp.com/store/product/product_detail/FB32...](http://www.shopping.hp.com/store/product/product_detail/FB324AA%2523ABA/)

There are lots of reasons to avoid webos; but this is not one.

~~~
Argorak
I said recent device. I am not interested in buying last years model if all
they push at the moment is the new line of products. How should I develop
applications for their new and shiny line, if I cannot even get a fully
working device on my contract?

~~~
aidenn0
Pre2 is the most recent phone you can buy with any carrier in the US right
now.

~~~
Argorak
You surely haven't missed the fact that the current advertisement push of HP
is not about the Pre 2 though, but about the new lineup which starts to be on
sale from next sunday on (starting with the HP Veer, followed by the Pre 3 and
the Tablet which integrates with those two).

So yes: technically, it is the most recent. Practically, only for 3 more days.

------
jallmann
I love WebOS because it has the only sane development model of all the
smartphone platforms on the market.

edit: I actually think wp7/silverlight might fare well too from a dev
perspective, but i haven't spent time with it yet.

~~~
jackson71
WP7's suffering from its own developer adoption woes. The only problem with
webOS' adoption, from my perspective as a webOS dev, has been marketing and
hardware. Developing for webOS has been fun from Day One and continues to be
nearly two years later.

The hardware part they look to have taken care of based on the Pre 3, Veer,
and Touchpad I got to see and mess with back at their Dev Reception in
February, and I'm pretty sure they have the money to market the product line
now.

~~~
barkerja
While the entry point is low, there are still many API's lacking which has
prevented a lot of applications from being on webOS (for example, there was no
mic API for the longest time).

------
lukifer
WebOS keeps getting more and more compelling. If the hardware becomes
sturdier, this could do very well, especially in the tablet space.

------
plainOldText
I think WebOS is great. But all the Palm devices are sliders which kinda
sucks. I wish they'd come up with something comparable with Nexus S or iPhone
4. A simple, but cool nice little piece of smartphone. But, that's just me.

~~~
DaveBowman
The Palm Pixi is not a slider, and I love it.

~~~
jackson71
The Pixi is nice as a form factor, but 1) it's incredibly old comparatively,
and 2) will not officially run webOS 2.x, and especially 3.x.

I know others who loved the form factor and feel of the Pixi; I'm hoping HP
decides to throw them a bone in the future to get them back.

------
treorock
1\. Ares 2\. Cards 3\. Notifications 4\. Just Type 5\. Exhibition 6\. OTA
updates 7\. Gestures 8\. Synergy 9\. The WebOS community 10\. WebOS Internals

~~~
firefoxman1
Wow, I hadn't seen Ares before. An in-browser SDK. Sweet.

Honestly, WebOS itself is way better than android or iOS, it's just that Palm
sucked at marketing it, the Pre was only available on Sprint, they didn't
attract many app developers, and they only sold 2 WebOS phones. I hope it's
not too late for HP to fix it.

Between the gestures, notifications, card-based multitasking, and JS/CSS/HTML
apps I'm in heaven.

~~~
martingordon
Not only can you design and code your app from the browser, you have full
debugging support in the browser that can remote debug on a physical device
that's plugged in to the computer.

I love iOS and its SDK, but Ares sure beats 4 GB Xcode updates.

~~~
firefoxman1
Wow. I will definitely be making a WebOS app now. It's really too bad Palm
didn't think of Ares. It could have definitely changed the game.

~~~
unwiredben
Actually, Ares has been available for over a year now -- the technology team
behind it has been building our new Enyo framework for websOS 3.0.

------
bfrog
Maybe if they made a good device that was available for my carrier of choice
I'd be more willing to consider it.

As it stands I have half a dozen android phones to possibly choose from and
the venerable iphone. I'd love to have a webos phone if it was closer to the
iphone in terms of form factor, resolution, speed, battery life etc but from
what I've seen its not even close.

Top it off with the fact that it seems like HP hasn't advertised a penny for
the thing compared to verizon's droid adverts plastered everywhere.

Honestly HP needs to team up with a carrier and make it happen in terms of
marketing. Windows Phone 7 might beat out webos in terms of mindshare at this
point.

------
azakai
WebOS is definitely very cool.

I doubt WebOS can overtake Android or iOS at this point, but it should be a
solid third place in this market (I don't think other competitors like WP7 or
Bada can make it).

~~~
irons
Nokia makes WP7 #3 by default. A respectable #4 by volume would be fine if
WebOS has a shot at #2 in quality.

#1 in quality is, I trust, sewn up for practically everyone reading this,
though with disagreements at great length and volume on which name to fill in.

~~~
azakai
> Nokia makes WP7 #3 by default.

I don't get this argument. Nokia is big now, but why would it still be big
with a completely different product, some time in the future, and after the
market has changed quite a bit?

------
antihero
Is there any way that WebOS could be ported to Android? If they're both linux
then the drivers should be fairly compatible with the respected kernel mods,
right?

~~~
wazoox
The interface (Luna) should be quite portable to Android, I suppose.

------
blinkingled
webOS sorely needs Galaxy S2 class hardware. HP should stop all else and get a
slick device out like yesterday.

~~~
evangineer
One of my main issues with WebOS from day one has been the lack of what I
would regard as decent hardware.

Another issue in the past, which I hope has much improved since is the
developer outreach which really sucked when I tried to engage. This was pre-HP
acquisition. The fact that @unwiredben is active in this discussion is a good
sign.

~~~
warthogkernel
The Pre actually had decent hardware except for being light on mem. The OMAP
chip was particularly overclock friendly and once overclocked along with some
additional tweaks was nice and fast.

The problem was the earlier webOS versions had no GPU acceleration at all and
ended seeming sluggish sometimes.

~~~
blinkingled
It needs a bigger form factor in slicker package - CPU/GPU matter but not as
much as form factor for the Pre atm. Having the tiny Pre screen does little
justice to webOS.

If they could get a SGS2 or Atrix type device out with GPU accelerated webOS
UI and may be ship Android compatibility until webOS apps catch up - it would
become a really credible player.

~~~
evangineer
Yes, I should have been more precise. I've never liked the form factor and
packaging of the WebOS devices. TouchPad looks like it might be up to scratch,
but still nothing that looks good to me on the horizon in terms of the
handset.

------
m0hit
if only there was a good (and hopefully cheap) hardware device to go with
webOS, it would definitely be cool to hack with. The Palm Pre, however, in my
opinion did not function as a useful device, mostly because of the hardware
(and lack of applications compared to iOS and android devices).

~~~
mhd
Care to elaborate on the hardware? Speed seemed decent enough (compared with
e.g. the first iPhone) and I personally really liked the "pebble" form factor.
Sad that it'll never see webOS 2...

~~~
warthogkernel
webOS 2.1 can be installed on the Pre if you make use of the Meta-Doctor.

Some additional hoops to jump through but it's entirely doable along with
overclocking, you end up with a pretty snappy device.

<http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_2_Upgrade>

~~~
jackson71
You want to be working on current-gen hardware if you're baselining future
development efforts at 2.x going forward.

What you don't want to be using as your sole dev/test unit is a two year-old
device using an unofficial workaround to get an OS version installed that was
never intended to be used on it.

It's fine if you want to support those people that decided to use the
workaround by having one of these franken-units around as a secondary edge-
case device to test on, but it should _never_ be the only device you use to
develop and test with. I have a 1Ghz overclocked Sprint Pre at 1.4.5 as my
"daily driver" and another Sprint Pre I've upgraded to 2.0 for testing such
cases.

------
raghava
> There’s no cost to become a developer.

But there is, to submit (signed) apps?

[https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_register&...](https://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_register&view=register&info)
says

"Benefits include:

    
    
        Enroll in the webOS Developer program ($99/year; covers up to xx application submissions)
        Submit you webOS application(s) for review and approval by Palm"
    

Am sure am missing something. Also, these devices are too costly for geeks on
other side of planet, if at all they are launched here.

~~~
unwiredben
Thanks for pointing out the old text. When we originally opened the dev
program, there was a fee for submitting apps, but this has all be eliminated
in the last year.

------
johnrob
Why haven't they made a tool/framework for porting WebOS apps (non-native) to
iOS & android? This would be a great way to leverage their superior developer
experience to get more apps on their platform.

~~~
Xuzz
Their next app (web?) framework, Enyo, does exactly this (in fact, apps are
developed in Chrome). They haven't announced the licensing options (i.e. if it
will be legal to use on other platforms), but I've run the betas of it on my
iPad and they work quite well.

When webOS 3.0 comes out, it's really up to HP Palm if they want to allow
this.

------
jinushaun
I've always had a soft spot for WebOS and still prefer it over Android and
WP7. However, Palm gimped themselves by making it Sprint exclusive and putting
the OS on cheap plastic hardware.

~~~
rsanchez1
They released all their phones to AT&T and Verizon shortly after the Sprint
exclusive. The Pre 2, vastly improved over the Pre, was formerly available
only as a GSM unlocked device, and now on Verizon. The Veer is an AT&T
exclusive. Sprint distanced itself from webOS a long time ago.

~~~
strmpnk
By "shortly after" you mean 1 year after, I take it? Which also makes that
available just under a year on AT&T today as well. So it hasn't really been
that long and now we are hearing about a new OS and new hardware. Not sure I
know anyone that would pay $150 for an outdated phone.

~~~
rsanchez1
The point was it's not a Sprint exclusive.

------
billmcneale
Pretty much every single point applies to Android as well, and if you have to
pick based on mind share and momentum...

------
wazoox
I love WebOS. My DSL line just dropped this morning, and I'm using the WiFi
hotspot built into my Pre to read HN. The 3G link is only slightly slower for
web browsing (2.3 Mbps down, 330 kpbs up).

------
freshrap6
I too am a big WebOS fan. So much so, I'm learning web development so that I
can write some apps to help populate its market.

------
barkerja
#5: The source is easy to find.

Does this mean that all apps' source is accessible, or just Palm namespaced
applications?

~~~
unwiredben
PDK application are compiled C++, so you only have object code. Most of the
apps HP ships on device are JS apps, so source is there. A developer can
choose to only ship minified/obfuscated source code if they want, but there
still has to be something for V8 to parse and execute.

~~~
barkerja
Right, I understand that but what I'm getting at is: if I create an
application that is purely JS/HTML/CSS based, will my source be available to
other developers that put their phone into "developer mode"?

If so, is there any way to make it not publicly available?

~~~
unwiredben
No, there's no way to completely hide the source. However, we do have a key
manager API that can be used to hide encryption keys so they're not exposed in
your source.

------
hrabago
If I love one device over the other because it gives me more potential
earnings, does that make me less of a geek?

~~~
spitfire
No. It makes you more of a man.

------
45g
WebOS is not open source so I fail to see why a "geek" should love it. On the
contrary - they should avoid it!

~~~
tintin
You sound a bit like Stallman. Even if you are using open source software you
still use closed source hardware most of the time.

What's really wrong with closed source?

------
blub
Just as Intel's AppUp, they require Paypal, which I've canceled and don't want
to use any more.

~~~
VMG
If you are trying to convince others to cancel paypal, you are not doing a
good job.

------
Tomek_
So when those new phones they showed some months ago at Mobile World Congress
are coming out?

~~~
rsanchez1
Veer is coming this Sunday. The other devices are probably coming next month,
but probably a little later.

------
harvestgrand
Are you stuck with the hp app store or can you go to places like apptown?

~~~
unwiredben
For purchasing apps, you use the HP App Catalog, but you can easily sideload
applications using the developer tools, and that can install alternative
catalogs like PreWare.

------
dpio
Looking forward to the Pre 3.

------
eekfuh
#7: You can try cutting edge stuff.

Yet you can't even do css background gradients. Real cutting edge.

~~~
DougReeder
CSS background gradients are visually appealing, but I'm not sure that's what
users want to spend the ergs in their mobile device battery on.

~~~
keyle
I think it's about having the choice.

------
thisuser
but does it tether?

~~~
newman314
Yes.

There is even a free tethering solution. Install via Preware.

------
diamondhead
I would love it but I can't make myself like an HP product because HP has been
selling thousands frozen WindowsXP + IE6 computers to the universities in my
country.

~~~
viraptor
Considering how many management changes ago it was and the number of different
divisions in HP, that's almost like not liking Germany today for WWII. How
many years ago that happened? (IE6? must've been ~2004)

~~~
diamondhead
I wish it had been ~2004 but it has been happening since 2008. They sold that
crappy computers to one of the biggest and newest university libraries in
Europe.

So, I have a real reason to ignore HP products even if they have great
platform.

~~~
eropple
Because they sold them something they were willing to buy? Sorry, that doesn't
make any sense.

~~~
diamondhead
As a coder, ethical behavior of the company behind the platform I use is very
important to me.

~~~
eropple
Where's your proof that this behavior was unethical? I know nonprofits and
educational institutions that still require IE6 _today_ due to various
reasons, and some on XP because they haven't okayed an upgrade cycle even if
they're not using it. No offense intended, but your claims are difficult to
take seriously. This sounds significantly more like "I don't like that they
use Microsoft" than anything to do with what kind of Microsoft software they
sold.

In the overwhelming majority of these cases that I've seen, there is _much_
more going on than "derp, we're gonna give them IE6 because we're eeeeeevil."

(And if that "ethical behavior" is really so important to you, you might as
well just stop using computers because each and every one of them are, on one
level or another, not fundamentally opposed to screwing the next guy to get
ahead. Don't use Google or Yahoo. Don't use Twitter or Facebook. Don't send
network packets over Cisco hardware. Don't buy Intel hardware. Don't buy AMD
hardware. Don't buy nVidia graphics cards. The list goes on.

Even everybody's favorite guys over at Canonical have demonstrated a
willingness to screw people over, viz. the Banshee project.)

~~~
diamondhead
Eropple, selling thousands of frozen computers with IE6 sounds ok for you?
it's clear that there is nothing to talk about.

~~~
eropple
There's nothing "frozen" about a computer that has IE6.

I would respectfully suggest that you look and see if you're upset because
they've got IE6 on them or because they've got Microsoft software on them.
Your phrasing and behavior suggests the latter.

~~~
diamondhead
It seems you've been commenting without trying to understand what "frozen"
means. I'm not surprised, go on

~~~
eropple
If you are using words in a non-standard way, it behooves you to actually
clarify and explain what you mean.

You are doing little to change the impression of "upset Linux fanboy" that you
created in your first post and have strengthened since.

~~~
diamondhead
I'm a fanboy of nothing except six things;

\- freedom \- freedom \- freedom \- wtf public license \- good software \-
user friendly business models

You're right, I'm an upset linux fanboy. I'm upset about the time we've lost
because of recent internet explorer versions and the companies supporting junk
software instead of the modern ones.

------
gcb
adoption is so low gsmarena doesn't even list on the advanced search OS
list...

