
GM’s new series of Ultium Drive electric motors - rbanffy
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/this-family-of-electric-motors-will-drive-gms-new-electric-vehicles/
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codeulike
The news is always [major car manufacturer] will have a huge range of EVs
available in [3 to 5 years - pick one].

I mean, good luck to them, but I'm getting tired of all the years of
announcements and then not much actually happening on the ground. This
announcement shit has been going on for a decade or more.

The GM Bolt was pretty good, so credit for that, but they couldn't manufacture
it to make a profit. And it was never available in my country (UK).

As another classic example, here's a VW press relase from 2013, when they
declared they would lead the world on EVs by 2018.

 _September 9, 2013 /PRNewswire/ \-- The Volkswagen Group has set its sights
on global market leadership in electric mobility. "We are starting at exactly
the right time. We are electrifying all vehicle classes, and therefore have
everything we need to make the Volkswagen Group the top automaker in all
respects, including electric mobility, by 2018", Prof. Dr. Martin Winterkorn,
CEO of Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft, said on the eve of the 65th
International Motor Show in Frankfurt am Main._

[https://tass.com/press-releases/700457](https://tass.com/press-
releases/700457)

I think Kia and Hyundai are the only people genuinely giving Tesla a run for
their money at the mo. Last time I checked they were constrained by battery
supplies, maybe they've fixed that now. Oh and the long range Renault Zoe is
pretty good. And maybe the long range Leaf but its a bit pricey and skimps on
battery cooling.

(edit: my unspoken assumption here is that only EVs with 200+ mile range are
really worth talking about at this point)

~~~
clouddrover
> _As another classic example, here 's a VW press relase from 2013, when they
> declared they would lead the world on EVs by 2018._

Volkswagen is the biggest BEV maker in Europe today:

[https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/april-2020-european-
elec...](https://www.schmidtmatthias.de/post/april-2020-european-electric-car-
market-top-sellers)

Give them a couple more years and they will be the biggest BEV maker
worldwide. Here are some BEVs you can buy from them either right now or soon:

\- Porsche Taycan

\- Audi e-Tron

\- Audi Q4 e-tron

\- Audi e-tron GT

\- VW e-Golf (being replaced by the ID.3)

\- VW ID.3

\- VW ID.4

\- Skoda Enyaq

And more to come each year. Volkswagen is walking the walk.

~~~
codeulike
Biggest BEV maker if you include PHEVs, but thats not what I'm talking about.

Which of those models actually exist and which ones are any good? Because the
last electric Audi I heard about was feeble. The Porche has good handling
going for it but not much else.

~~~
clouddrover
No, biggest BEV maker in Europe right now. The chart is a bit confusing.

~~~
codeulike
Hmm ok, just scraping ahead of Nissan/Renault. OK well thats something.

What have they been selling 30k of between Jan and Apr then? e-Golfs and
e-Trons?

edit: WAIT, your chart is 'Western Europe'. If you look at all of Europe, YTD
sales (up to July) you get:

Renault Zoe - 46259

Tesla Model 3 - 34014

VWe-Golf - 21794

Audi e-Tron - 16643

Kona EV - 15971

[https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2020/08/europe-july-2020.html](https://ev-
sales.blogspot.com/2020/08/europe-july-2020.html)

Strong showing by the e-Golf (how are they selling that many of a car with 125
mile range??) and e-Tron but even if you add them together Renault are still
way ahead. Well deserved, the Zoe is a great package.

Edit: WAIT WAIT didn't go far enough down the list to catch the e-up

E-up - 9975

So that does indeed put vw in the lead, and mostly with sales of previous-gen
EVs with 100/125 range. How are they shifting those?

~~~
reitzensteinm
You missed the e-UP, so parent's assertion is actually correct. But Europe
this year isn't representative, Tesla lost a quarter to covid and their sales
ramp for Q3 hasn't happened yet.

On the other hand, the ID.3 and ID.4 are going to provide serious competition
in the near future, and on the other, other hand, GF Berlin will come
eventually. Exiting times.

------
MichaelZuo
Ultium sounds like the ultimate element name! Certainly better than Oganesson
or whatever wacky names IUPAC chooses.

In seriousness, this is an exciting time for electrification, GM put serious
engineering effort into this lineup and from the looks of it they expect to be
going all in this decade.

~~~
geodel
Perhaps they could not get their hands on Unobtanium otherwise that would be
better.

~~~
MichaelZuo
Unobtanium Drive could be reserved for their corvette hypercar.

------
fit2rule
I wonder when we'll see the rise of drop-in replacement motors to convert
combustion cars to electric? It seems to me that, done properly, this would be
a major market for someone to enter and engage.

~~~
jabl
I'm skeptical. Electrical cars have much different internal layout and weight
distribution, as well as being heavier overall.

If the goal would be to switch the vehicle fleet over to electric, makes more
sense to aggressively introduce it with new cars (say, a moratorium on new ICE
cars, or fleet fuel efficiency / emissions standards that would in practice
allow vendors to sell only a small fraction of ICE vehicles), and let existing
ICE cars run to the end of their lives as is.

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watersb
I read this headline, and thought it was really weird that General Motors
would be building magnetic tape cartridge transport motors, or why that would
be newsworthy.

Ultium != Ultrium

------
rkagerer
What's holding back in-wheel motors like the Protean?

~~~
roland35
In wheel motors have high unsprung mass, which has negative effects on the
performance of the vehicle and ability of the suspension system to keep the
wheels on the road in particular. It is difficult to actively cool a motor in
the wheel as well, although you would have an easier time with radiated
cooling at least.

Also, wheels are the most exposed part of the vehicle! It is much safer to
keep the motor inside where there is less dust and road debris.

~~~
rkagerer
Thanks. Wasn't there a study done regarding unsprung mass that suggested the
effects may not be as bad as feared and vehicles could be tuned to compensate?

------
blueblisters
What's the state of the art in motor design? In terms of range or power, is
there any innovation boundary we are yet to push?

~~~
fluffy87
Probably whatever motor is Bosch selling to the highest bidder.

You don’t really hear much about Bosch because it’s not on the stock market.
But they have a couple of huge research centers worldwide and their tech is
used by every auto manufacturer in the industry.

------
Animats
Are these liquid cooled? There's what looks like a fill cap on top? Do they
need a separate radiator?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
If it’s like a Tesla, it is liquid cooled but the system is much more sealed.
Tesla recommends changing your coolant once every 150k miles.

~~~
sbierwagen
Chevy Bolt (a GM EV) has three cooling coops, with three water pumps.
(Electronics/motor, cabin heat, battery)
[https://www.searchautoparts.com/sites/www.searchautoparts.co...](https://www.searchautoparts.com/sites/www.searchautoparts.com/files/images/Figure%207%20-%20The%203%20coolant%20loops%20of%20the%202016-2019%20Chevrolet%20Bolt%20EV%20BEV.jpg)
Identical 150k coolant change interval.

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mulmen
So is this the LS of electric motors?

~~~
serf
probably, if GM sticks it in everything.

mass adoption of the same series' of motor over an entire line-up will
definitely increase the amount of parts that are available for folks to tinker
with outside the GM models -- one of the big factors that lead to the success
of the LS in the car-hobbyist sector was that one could find one at the
nearest junkyard.

but, really, that trend started earlier with the 4" bore small block motors
from 1962 onwards; the same family of engine the LS is from, anyway. They were
produced forever, put in everything, and could be had by any hobbyist for very
cheap from the closest junkyard.

~~~
bigdubs
also was keeping with a dated technology (pushrods) to keep the motor small
and relatively simple (and arguably more reliable).

not sure what the analogue would be in electric motors.

~~~
RedShift1
Electric motors are much more reliable than any combustion engine. The only
thing that really wears out are the bearings and those are easily replaced. So
the electric analogue of the LS will probably be _any_ electric motor.

~~~
mulmen
This really misses the point of why the LS and previous variants were and are
so popular with gearheads.

GM is more than willing to sell parts to anyone and they don't really care
what you plan on doing with them. Fix your car and keep it stock, modify it
with more power, put a GM motor in a Toyota, they don't care.

It's a very hacker friendly mentality actually.

Tesla is actively trying to prevent people from even maintaining their own
cars, forget about trying to put a Tesla drivetrain in a 1990 Corolla or
something.

~~~
Johnythree
Why use Tesla components? There are now a wide range of components available
for electric conversions.

And if you want to use Tesla bits, they are readily available at auto
wreckers. And most have been thoroughly reverse-engineered by now.

~~~
34679
Some of us are dreaming about the day when we can order a robust EV drivetrain
and slap it in whatever we have on hand, without having to disassemble a wreck
and retrofit aftermarket control boards. Just like GM crate motors. I really
want to see a website like the following, but with Ultium instead of LS:

[https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/connect-
cruise-p...](https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/connect-cruise-
powertrain-systems)

------
saltedonion
How do these compare to what Tesla is using?

~~~
anoncareer0212
"Kwiatkowski wouldn't be drawn more on the specs other than to tell me that
both power and torque density (i.e. the amount of power or torque divided by
the volume of the motor) will be industry leading."

