
A man overrides his camera's firmware to bring rare pictures of North Korea back - jorge-d
http://www.m1key.me/photography/road_to_north_korea/
======
Laforet
The pictures are not bad, but the captions are incredibly cringe and
condescending. Of course he would not bother to tell us how to disable the
delete in the firmware. Seriously, I mean, thousands of people have gone on
these state-sponsored package tours in North Korea and we see the same set of
trains, roads, hotels and attractions that they have really got boring.

One photography project I do found interesting is the set below commissioned
by Getty Images. The photographers they hired found a loophole in their visa
conditions, managed enter NK from Russia and reached Pyongyang on trains
rarely used by tourists. They were able to interact more with the locals since
the border guards as well as people en route have not been "coached" to speak
to foreginers and the whole thing came out feeling much more genuine than
these tourist flicks.

Selected pictures featured in Daily Mail:
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210256/Fascinating-...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210256/Fascinating-
glimpse-everyday-life-North-Korea-country-steps-brink-war-South.html)

Photographer's Portfolio:
[http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/search/events/573232783?exclude...](http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/search/events/573232783?excludenudity=true&family=editorial&page=1&sort=best&phrase=)

Photographer's written account of their travel (in Chinese), plus a few candid
shots that Getty refused to buy:
[https://www.zhihu.com/question/19972643/answer/81163727](https://www.zhihu.com/question/19972643/answer/81163727)

~~~
colinplamondon
Condescending? This is an enslaved country with concentration many times
larger than anything the Nazis cooked up. It's hard to condescend to one of
the great evils in history.

~~~
Laforet
Did not expect Godwin's law to be invoked so soon but I will give it a shot:

>The Chinese city where you get to do that is called Dandong. I read somewhere
it was the most humane of Chinese cities, most having become a polluted
nightmare these days...

If he was being ironic I must have missed it. He seems to regard Dandong as
the pinnacle of Chinese economic ascendancy when the city actually has a
reputation for rampant violent crime thanks to smuggling and drug trade that
occurs across the border.

>Pluralism and individualism are regarded as the greatest enemy. I understood
the significance of being able to drive a car anywhere you want, when you
please, where you please - as our guide told us in North Korea you only travel
big distances by bus or train, when you get permission.

Internal visa is an evil system, but this paragraphs just reeks of material
and moral superiority. Hey why don't you just become a rugged individual like
me and save up for a car when there is only three scheduled trains every week?

>North Koreans supposedly believe that the entire world is in awe of their
achievements.

That's a lot to ask for a paddy field in the middle of nowhere.

>The man has some genuine dignity.

Again, really hard to figure out whether it is sarcasm or not.

See, I am not interested in defending the NK regime. However the
author/photographer shows a rather disappointing lack of understanding,
respect or the slightest empathy to for his subjects. Hence his pictures,
while technically sound, are no better than the millions of photos taken by
Western tourists in North Korea.

~~~
disposeofnick9
North Korea is it's own, special form of evil which has developed nukes at the
expense of nearly their entire GDP, most work is compelled, executed a general
by antiaircraft gun, keeps people from escaping, still technically at war
(ceasation of hositilities but still points AKs across the border) with the
South and starves millions to death. Perhaps the mentioning of Godwin's law is
itself groupthink dismissing legitimate "evil" suspects like Drumpf, Assad,
Putin, Daesh, etc., that need more nuanced discussion, not shutting down.
Shutting down is for tinfoil hat "micro-aggressions" and bikeshedding femto-
issues, not ruthless regimes which genocidally-eradicate their own populace to
ensure their own survival.

~~~
kbenson
Godwin's law has come full circle to the point where it's invoked even where
the comparisons make sense. The Nazi party of WWII and the atrocities
committed by them are not entirely incomparable, even if they are _often_ used
hyperbolically. Reserving a special place for those actions and refusing
comparison invites us to ignore when the comparisons _are_ apt, and to see the
connections where they are relevant.

In some respects, North Korea is far worse than Nazism ever was (such as in
its fanatacism), but in others it's nowhere near (such as the Holocaust,
unless the situation there is far, _far_ worse than anyone knows).

> Drumpf

Ha! Someone likes their John Oliver. :)

~~~
Chris2048
WW2 was a significant event in world history, it has relevance in many areas.
It's also a great example of unique issues. It undoubtedly has relevance to
many, varied subjects. as such, Godwins law is unproductive memetic junk.

------
easong
I went to North Korea in January as an American (incidentally on the same tour
as the kid who is currently being detained there and in the same group). As
mentioned in the article, Americans can't go on the train, so I can't speak to
his experiences specifically, but I have a few reactions to this.

1\. He probably didn't need to modify his camera firmware - I took pictures of
basically whatever I wanted and they didn't look or care. The only exception
to this was the (singular) grocery store, which I thought was hilarious
because it was actually pretty nice. (With surprisingly good food, too! I'm
still snacking on some of the candies I bought there.) I went on a helicopter
ride and took a bunch of pictures of anti-aircraft guns and the like hoping
that they would make me delete them and I would have a story to tell, but no
such luck.

2\. There's a big difference between the different tour companies. Some of
them really sold the dystopian totalitarian state experience, with extremely
strict guides who yelled at people on the tour and checked everybody's cameras
and so on. The people on those tours seemed to have signed up for that
experience and were, I think, happy to receive it. My group was drunk off our
collective asses literally 24/7, our guides were making dick jokes, a guy
wandered off on his own on New Years Eve and didn't get back to the hotel
until ~3am after getting in a fistfight with a cab driver, and it was
generally a party. It seems to me like the author of this article went in
looking for a dystopia to photograph, and the tour company gave him one.

3\. North Korea is poor as hell, obviously has a horrible government, etc. If
you've been to other extremely poor parts of the globe it's obvious that it's
a poor country trying to pretend to be a rich one. The successful example of
neighboring South Korea makes their failure to provide for their citizens even
sadder. But I would guess total quality of life is comparable or better in the
DPRK than many other places I've been. (Somalia, nasty bits of Bangladesh,
etc)

4\. The citizens and possibly government are (not totally unreasonably)
terrified that the US is going to invade and crush them like ants at any given
moment. I think this drives a lot of their government's malinvestments.

~~~
ekianjo
> 4\. The citizens and possibly government are (not totally unreasonably)
> terrified that the US is going to invade and crush them like ants at any
> given moment.

Are you joking ? The US would never do that since China wants North Korea to
keep acting as a buffer state against America's influence. Plus, the US has
never hinted of any operation in the region.

~~~
easong
The North Koreans are totally obsessed with the Korean War, and seem to think
that the entire world is too. They've convinced themselves that the US started
the first Korean war because controlling the Korean peninsula is vitally
important for some reason that I can't remember (the propaganda drones on a
bit too much). It's a bit silly, but it seems to be what they believe. As an
American I obviously don't think we have an all-consuming desire to invade and
subjugate the Korean peoples or that it's a major goal of our government.

That said, it wasn't that long ago that North Korea was on Bush's hit list
("axis of evil"), we regularly organize large military exercises preparing for
a new Korean war, and we've got all sorts of belligerent rhetoric that a
paranoid DPRK intelligence officer would definitely take as a threat. Even
confirmed war hawks like Bernie Sanders name them as the biggest threat to the
US on the world stage (which is ridiculous, IMO).

~~~
Ripsaw
It's ridiculous to think of the DPRK as a threat at it's current level but
allowing such an antagonistic state to research ICBMs is a long-term threat.
Personally I would rather us a take them down now then let them fall apart in
50 years when they have the capability to nuke Seoul.

~~~
easong
Right, but imagine that you're the head of the DPRK military and you're
reading this comment as the general attitude of America. Now you think that
you have to get nukes ASAP, and you're risking US invasion at any time until
you do (look what happened to Saddam!).

Once you have nukes, you think, you'll have a shred of leverage over the US
since you'll have the capability to nuke Seoul. With that leverage, you can
ensure that your glorious people's republic will continue to prosper without
another devastating war. Who cares if you throw the economy under the bus
until you're nuclear-armed - that's just the price you have to pay for
security.

I personally don't think that the DPRK has any real intention of starting a
war - they know that there's about five minutes between hostilities being
declared and Pyongyang turning into a radioactive parking lot.

~~~
kobayashi
Pyongyang will almost certainly never be nuked by the US, even if the DPRK
used nukes first. The reasons are manifold, and include the political costs
(domestic + international) of using nuclear weapons against a captive and
largely innocent people, as well as the actual nuclear fallout that would
effect nearby neighbours.

Tom Nichols delves deeper into the topic in both article [0] and book [1]
forms.

[0] [http://nationalinterest.org/feature/if-america-could-
rebuild...](http://nationalinterest.org/feature/if-america-could-rebuild-its-
nuclear-weapons-force-scratch-11272?page=show)

[1]
[http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/15090.html](http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/15090.html)

~~~
ekianjo
> Pyongyang will almost certainly never be nuked by the US, even if the DPRK
> used nukes first. The reasons are manifold, and include the political costs
> (domestic + international) of using nuclear weapons against a captive and
> largely innocent people, as well as the actual nuclear fallout that would
> effect nearby neighbours.

On second thought, if the DPRK were to nuke New York or something, I can't see
how the US could afford not to nuke back without looking weak. At the same
time, that would probably trigger a nuclear apocalypse scenario pretty quickly
with retaliation from China and the like.

~~~
kobayashi
A strong response would definitely be necessary, but that response is unlikely
to be nuclear in kind. The USA and its allies have enough conventional
firepower to permanently end the DPRK regime without needing to resort to
nukes. Nichols spells it out in more detail.

------
lingben
NK is really a surreal place, no matter how much you learn about it, something
new will still shock you

for example, I watched a documentary about a Western eye doctor who went there
pro bono to do cataract surgeries

the thing was, when he gave people their sight back they didn't thank him,
they went up to a picture of 'Dear Leader' and wept and prostrated themselves
in a cathartic show of gratitude

~~~
InclinedPlane
Camp 14: Total Control Zone, it's a heartbreaking movie about what life is
like in the gulags of North Korea. Shocking to think that sort of thing is
still going on just a few miles away from the developed world.

~~~
bjornsteffanson
The principal subject of this film recanted much of his story in 2015.

~~~
InclinedPlane
Do you have a source for that claim?

~~~
verisimilitude
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/prominent-n-korean-
defe...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/prominent-n-korean-defector-
shin-dong-hyuk-admits-parts-of-story-are-
inaccurate/2015/01/17/fc69278c-9dd5-11e4-bcfb-059ec7a93ddc_story.html)

~~~
InclinedPlane
And you think that backs up the claim that he "recanted much of his story"?
Did you read it?

------
jonah
A couple rail fans booked a train from Vienna to Pyongyang in 2008.

Their travelogue is fascinating although it can take some effort to wade
through the train-schedule minutia and whatnot if you're not into that but
well worth it for the uncensored images.

"The forbidden railway: Vienna - Pyongyang 윈 - 모스크바 - 두만강 - 평양 36 hours in
North Korea without a guide..."

[http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/](http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/)

EDIT: Direct link to skip the European and Russian part of the trip and go
directly to crossing the border:

[http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/irkutsk-
skovoro...](http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/irkutsk-
skovorodino.html)

~~~
Laforet
Very interesting read, thanks for posting this.

------
sveiss
The photographer shared this set on Reddit around a month ago and included
some additional commentary in the thread.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/46ahkv/illegal_photo_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/46ahkv/illegal_photo_offlimits_shop_in_north_korea_i_had/)

It was, and is, a fascinating series of photos.

------
hohohmm
Pictures are okay if not just generic NK photos, definitely not rare, and the
captions, wtf?

"At night, the elderly Chinese dance in the streets in unison avoiding any
displays of individuality." What is this? To avoid any display of
individuality??? I just marvel at this wishful thinking. They do that in
unison because it's fun to do activities with other people sharing the same
interest. If i'm playing Starcraft with a bunch of friends, am I avoiding
display of individuality? Why can't the biased eyes just state the obvious
that the elderly are just enjoying themselves.

Honestly I've seen way better NK photos and way better wishful NK journalism.
Why is this even on Hacker News?

~~~
jecjec
Be less hateful. OP has done a wonderful public service.

------
x1798DE
What a weird title for this. He doesn't even say that that actually happened,
just that you _can_ override your firmware to make the delete button not work.

~~~
userbinator
The title reminds me of this article:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6980058](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6980058)

Why not create a SD card that doesn't actually delete data (until it gets
completely full and there's no other way, of course) but instead encrypts it
in such a way that only those who know can retrieve it; sort of like an NSA
backdoor, but one you control...

~~~
0xffff2
>sort of like an NSA backdoor, but one you control...

So... just a backdoor, then?

~~~
schoen
Or maybe just public-key cryptography!

------
smhaziq
Second gallery:
[http://www.m1key.me/photography/ostensibly_ordinary_pyongyan...](http://www.m1key.me/photography/ostensibly_ordinary_pyongyang/)

------
Blackthorn
In case anyone was wondering some of the ways rural Chinese were dealing with
the aborted-their-baby-girls problem...

> If you're caught escaping by the Chinese, they send you back if you're a
> man. But the captured women are referred to as "pigs", and sold to Chinese
> men

~~~
rgbrenner
According to these links:
[https://www.hrnk.org/uploads/pdfs/Lives_for_Sale.pdf](https://www.hrnk.org/uploads/pdfs/Lives_for_Sale.pdf)
[https://www.nknews.org/2015/02/when-north-korean-women-
becom...](https://www.nknews.org/2015/02/when-north-korean-women-become-
brides-in-china/) [http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/february/north-
korean-...](http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/february/north-korean-bride-
slaves-sold-into-misery/?mobile=false)

Women and men caught by China are sent back to NK.

Traffickers in China however will sell NK women.. and will make trips into NK
to recruit women.

In fact, once they are in China, it's the threat of being sent back to NK,
that prevents them from going to authorities for help.

Wikipedia has some info on human trafficking in NK also:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_North_Kor...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_North_Korea)

------
eulji
WOW. What an ignorance.

1) NK's ICBMs program is much more advanced than SK's 2) Young generation is
openly doubting the regime 3) There's a lot of smuggling of SK's soap operas
and music 4) Their nuclear research is top-notch considering the circumstances
5) All other parties involved (US,China,Japan,South Korea, Russia) are all to
be blamed for suffering of 25 millions of people living in an artificial
skansen of communism. 6) Praising the great leader is one way how to protect
yourself and your family when the "democratic, cool westerners" are not going
to help you.

And the guy is openly preaching China for being much more advanced ? NK's
regime is scary but the one in China is even scarier. They are pragmatic
criminals that embraced the art of trade.

US and SK should have invaded and liberated the NK long time ago. They are as
much part of the problem as the NK's leadership is.

~~~
justabystander
> All other parties involved (US,China,Japan,South Korea, Russia) are all to
> be blamed for suffering of 25 millions of people living in an artificial
> skansen of communism.

> US and SK should have invaded and liberated the NK long time ago. They are
> as much part of the problem as the NK's leadership is.

I'm glad you're so high on your own morality that you're willing to condemn
thousands of people that aren't you to death in starting a war. There's the
possibility that economics and the changing international climate will bleed
over and convince the populace to change. That's what people have been hoping
for - a chance for change with a minimum of bloodshed. A chance to convince
rather than force.

Yes, there's debate over whether a long-term peaceful approach or a short-term
decisive strike would cause the least "suffering". I get that. But it's not as
simple as the US going over to free the shit out of them. China has previously
committed to at least partial protection of NK in an armed conflict. And while
NK's military power is relatively anemic compared to most of the world,
throwing down with China isn't exactly an attractive opportunity. Plus,
there's already a lot of negative perception about US intervention in other
countries. It doesn't always go well, and it's certainly rarely perceived
well.

And then there's all the naive kids that would be dying because you think it's
their fault for not doing something about every single thing that goes wrong
on the planet. Exactly why should those kids get embroiled in a war as opposed
to living their own lives? Even the ones who survive likely won't be able to
integrate and function well in society afterwards. Not to mention the harsh
effect on the NK and SK populace. Yeah, you can think of it as being like
quickly pulling off a band-aid until you realize all the dead people and
ruined lives it costs to take the shortcut.

Maybe you should try not condemning other people for ignorance when you're
asking thousands to die for your naive internet opinion of global politics. If
war's the solution you want, go do it yourself instead of trying to get the
rest of us to do it for you.

~~~
eulji
Are you perhaps joking ? My naive view of global politics is as naive as your
moral standard towards poor NK's children.

US is a superpower and if it wants to keep its allies alive it needs to do
something for them as well. Your double standards really surprise me.

US cannot afford to loose SK but if the US keeps ignoring the NK/China problem
that will push SK more and more to the hands of Chinese.

Sooner or later you will realize that koreans are the bffs of China, Japan
feels threatened and there is nothing you can do about that boiling hot pot
that formed in the Pacific.

It's not about NK's suffering population at all. Nobody cares about them and
that is what's scary.

~~~
justabystander
> My naive view of global politics is as naive as your moral standard towards
> poor NK's children.

The problem is that you're asking us to kill people in order to "save" people.
You're asking us to choose who lives and who dies while imposing a different
standard of government and living upon others. That's what's naive - the idea
that you and others are somehow so moral that you're allowed to pick when it's
right to go kill people.

The last few invasions where the US stepped in to do this went rather poorly,
and it has received mostly negative feedback for this in international
politics. It's a bit unrealistic to believe that we're doing the right thing
in forced liberation operations when everyone is so upset about it. Us
stepping in is just asking for another international gripe session of "who's
the US bullying today?" Thanks, but no. We'll wait until we're officially
asked.

> It's not about NK's suffering population at all. Nobody cares about them and
> that is what's scary.

People care. Just not enough to die and make others die for them. Which was
the exact level of consideration you exhibited towards everyone who would die
in the war you want to start. We want NK to change, but to force them to do so
with munitions isn't really the best idea.

We don't particularly like the way things are going over there, but we've got
enough of a warmongering reputation as is. Everything suggests that while we
can maintain the peace, we should. At least until the situation is conducive
for intervention without a significant loss of life. The real question isn't
why someone halfway around the world doesn't want to send people over there to
die, but why the countries right next door think it's somehow our job to do it
when any one of them could do it easier and cheaper. They could probably even
do it alone, given NK's anemic economy, but they could also start and then ask
for help. Waiting for us to do it seems like people want the results without
having to get their hands dirty.

> US is a superpower and if it wants to keep its allies alive it needs to do
> something for them as well. Your double standards really surprise me.

SK has gotten plenty of support in the face of potential attacks _targeting
them_. That's what allies do. Supporting the invasion of a completely separate
country to "free" them of a dictator and killing thousands in the process is a
totally different story. NK and SK were once one. And there are still families
across both borders. But they are _separate_ countries. And thus have separate
political relationships.

NK is not our ally. SK is. They happen to be in conflict, though not actively.
We can help protect SK without engaging in proactive slaughter of all
conflicting parties.

> Sooner or later you will realize that koreans are the bffs of China, Japan
> feels threatened and there is nothing you can do about that boiling hot pot
> that formed in the Pacific.

Yeah, no. Korea, China, and Japan all have hundreds of years of history
between each other. Many of it is not pleasant, such as Japan's mass slaughter
of millions of Chinese and Korean people in WWII, forced prostitution, etc.
And there is plenty of conflict even today around shared resources such as
international waters, islands, Taiwan, etc. Korea's tech industry and China's
rampant disregard of corporate IP also make for uneasy international meetings.
Even modern fictional literature contains racist and nationalist messages that
causes conflict. At the end of the day, they manage not to shoot each other,
but they're hardly all BFFs. At most, they have strategic peace treaties to
help deal with more volatile relationships.

Asking a third party to jump in the middle with weapons is just asking for
problems. Especially when the largest superpower which lives right next door
has already said not to, because it would retaliate.

------
jorge-d
A lot of people expressed concern about the title. I just would like to say
that it does come from a misunderstanding about the original article I read
the story from [1], as I expressed in another comment [2].

I've discovered plenty of North Kore related stories in HN that people already
cover in the comments section [3] or other submissions [4] [5].

I thought that given these two points this story would be quite interesting
here in HN. As of the title, knowing now that it's not exactly true I let the
mods choose a more appropriate one if needed.

[1]
[https://twitter.com/Dimitri_Jorge/status/709705048150949888](https://twitter.com/Dimitri_Jorge/status/709705048150949888)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11288584](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11288584)

[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287297](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11287297)

[4]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5091962](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5091962)

[5]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2541189](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2541189)

------
ZoeZoeBee
It is amazing what a generation of brain washing and isolation can do to the
perspective of a nation. Amazing to hear a quarter of the population is
mentally deficient due to malnutrition, no wonder they believe the world is in
awe of their accomplishments. I chuckled when I read they believe payments
form other nations (International Aid) are their spoils from war.

Topographically what a beautiful country, I hope some day the North Koreans
are afforded an opportunity at freedom.

~~~
viraptor
While this is what they're told, it's not necessarily what they believe. In
the socialist eastern europe people have been regularly told lies on the radio
/ TV. Most people knew. And others knew they knew. That doesn't mean the
propaganda stopped.

Lots of old movies, songs, comedy shows, etc. referenced that fact subtly, and
often they managed to get it through the censorship.

~~~
T2_t2
Propaganda exists not to convince. Propaganda exists to define what the rules
are, so they can spot people who deviate. If "dogs" was an illegal word, then
anyone that says "dogs" becomes an way to spot people prone to illegal
activity.

Dictatorships really don't care what you think, they care what you DO, and
more importantly, they care what you can openly discuss and with whom. Making
it easy to spot those likely to rebel is the goal of propaganda, who gives a
hoot what anyone thinks.

~~~
etangent
> Propaganda exists not to convince. Propaganda exists to define what the
> rules are, so they can spot people who deviate

Exactly that. Surprising how many people misunderstand this; but then most of
us live in a free country (so far).

~~~
mdpopescu
If by that you mean "we can say anything", you might need to reconsider. [1]

For example, saying "the Holocaust is a hoax" in Canada or Germany can get you
in jail. [2] Saying something that even hints that women are different than
men in the UK will probably result in you losing your job. [3] I'm pretty sure
the same is true in the US, at least on the East Coast.

[1] [http://paulgraham.com/say.html](http://paulgraham.com/say.html) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel)
[3] [http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/15/i-was-hung-out-to-dry-
claims-t...](http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/15/i-was-hung-out-to-dry-claims-top-
scientist-fired-for-sexist-speech-5245921/)

------
hellofunk
Most interesting comments by the photographer:

>"Anyone who composes a work that has not been assigned to the writer through
this chain of command is by definition guilty of treason. All written works in
North Korea must be initiated in response to a specific request from the
Workers’ Party."

>"After the Korean War, North Korea was economically a more attractive
destination than South Korea, and many people, including 100,000 ethnic
Koreans from Japan, were welcomed into North Korea."

>"in North Korea you only travel big distances by bus or train, when you get
permission."

>"This was one of the most strange moments - when we finally arrived in
Pyongyang. Through the courtains of the compartment window, we looked at a
surreal scene that appeared like something out of a theatre in its perfection
and artifice. Elegant men, beautiful women, walking in a simulated hurry,
travellers without a reason (ours was the only train that day), all to impress
us and so that the station doesn't look empty."

------
sakopov
North Korea looks like the Soviet Union of the 1950s. It's just amazing how
stuck in time this place is.

------
hnfmr
This looks very much like late 1970s, early 1980s in rural areas of China. For
me they are reminiscent of my childhood, when rural areas were still not
affected by air/land/water pollution.

~~~
rasz_pl
or any Warsaw pact country under Russian occupation at that time.

------
nether
When my cousin visited the DPRK, she said that all the paper there was like
tissue, and that anything made there of plastic would shatter when dropped.
Really limited manufacturing abilities.

~~~
derefr
> anything made of plastic would shatter when dropped

So, they can make plastic, but not plasticizers. I always thought those had
the same feedstock.

------
ivanb
Nice. Here is what I see if I just consider the pictures: very clean cities
and countryside, disciplined and healthy people living their simple lives.
People work and serve their country. Everyone is poor but equally so. No
apparent inequality. People get education and perform arts. Of all poor places
on Earth it doesn't look like it is the worst.

So this is how it looks to me if I put aside the usual "North Korea is evil"
media context.

------
rdl
I wonder if the North Koreans who get killed for letting a device slip by them
which then is used to mock their security will be told exactly why they're
being tortured/murdered, or if it will just happen. :(

------
yequalsx
Visiting a country with concentration camps is morally reprehensible. His
visit helps to finance and prop up the deplorable North Korean regime.

~~~
ars
You don't deserve to be downmodded for saying that.

But it's not so black and white - I totally understand your position. But if
people _don 't_ visit no one will really understand how bad it is.

There is no good answer.

I feel so bad for them, I want to do something. War even. I have no ability
to. And in any case I don't know if war is even a good idea or not.

But the truth is I only think about it when I see photos like this, then I
move on and continue my regular day. These photos need to be constant to have
people remember all the time.

~~~
yequalsx
I understand your sentiment and sympathize with it. I would agree with it if
tourists did actually interact with average citizens. They don't though. So I
see no benefit to visiting the country. It does nothing other than bring money
to their leadership and this is why I have the view that I do.

------
necessity
Beautiful colors. If you didn't mention "firmware" I'd have guessed some
professional grade film was used.

~~~
taneq
That'd be one way to do it, just graft the circuit board from a digital camera
onto the back of a film SLR. Why yes, sir, I've deleted all of my photos!

------
ReedJessen
This is the craziest thing I have the read in this recent memory: "Anyone who
composes a work that has not been assigned to the writer through this chain of
command is by definition guilty of treason. All written works in North Korea
must be initiated in response to a specific request from the Workers’ Party."

------
b123400
I went to NK few months ago, while they do check cameras on train, they didn't
check anything at all when I leave the country via airport. They call this
"internationalization", I felt a little bit stupid for encrypting all the
photos I took.

------
swang
Wait, NK women are sold off to the Chinese if they're caught in China? Is this
well known?

------
ksrm
Also check out this person's many photos from all over North Korea:
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/kernbeisser/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/kernbeisser/)

------
forgetsusername
I was mostly struck by a "civilized" backdrop (used loosely) with nary a
billboard or piece of litter in view. If I didn't know better, I'd say it
looked quiet nice there. But I know better.

------
dominotw
I am on my way to get my US Citzenship in couple of years. I've been dreaming
about visiting NorthKorea almost everyday for past 3 yrs.

Would visiting NK cause me any trouble getting my US citizenship?

------
l33tbro
Admittedly an aside, but why the author's little jibe about Sigma lenses being
amateur? My 18-35mm outperforms Zeiss and Canon glass that is 3 times its
price.

~~~
jonah
I think he was saying they _look_ amateur. An excellent lens from a "cheaper"
brand would be exactly what you'd want to bring to get excellent images
without flaunting your wealth/professionalism with the fancier brands.

------
jecjec
I can't do it right now but I plead to those of you with the resources and
skill to spin up mirrors of this website to do so. I expect imminent problems.

~~~
chipperyman573
Just archive it on archive.org boom instant mirror

------
tiatia
If you plan to visit:
[http://www.youngpioneertours.com/](http://www.youngpioneertours.com/)

------
sriram_iyengar
all i see is \- less population \- no traffic \- clear air and very less
pollution \- farm and live easy \- walk and cycle and stay fit \- great
childhood of enjoying countryside

Overall, they are 117th in life expectancy with 65years+. My greatest and
largest democracy as well offers just the same.

Don't get any of this living in the greatest democracy's top Urban city !

~~~
saiya-jin
farm and easy life - in reality often famine and extremely oppressive regimes.
wtf are you writing about?

~~~
sriram_iyengar
I'm definitely not writing about wtf

------
lfam
People are carrying heavy things around the city. They don't even have carts
or wagons with wheels.

------
sedeki
I am still amazed that NK actually tells people to look like busy travellers
at the train station.

------
a_c
Next time north korea with be confiscating the camera instead..

------
jecjec
OP produces possibly the greatest work of North Korean photography;

Comments: "This isn't that big of a deal. I've seen better."

~~~
EliRivers
I've seen better photos. Some of the people on my trip took better photos (I
took some pretty clumsy photos; these are better than mine in terms of framing
and light and all that sort of thing). These are fine, but to call them the
greatest work of North Korean photography is simply incorrect.

------
jaseemabid
1984?

------
topspin
True paradise. No commercial billboards. Few cars. Obesity cured. Low energy
use. Cooperative domestic politics. Free healthcare.

And all it takes is a couple gulags. Brilliant.

~~~
nikolay
People think that a more complicated life is better. I like the simplicity of
the North Korean life. As I'm Bulgarian, it reminds me about Bulgaria during
communism. Choices were simple, life was good, but it wasn't sustainable
without the support of the USSR. So, in that regard, I admire NK for managing
to cope till now given Cuba pretty much gave in. Don't get me wrong, I'm not
supporting the regimes, but I love the simple life that's becoming extinct due
to corporations taking over our lives!

~~~
sakopov
Life in USSR has never been as tough as it is in NK. Maybe in the 30s, 40s and
early 50s. Maybe... My grandmother who was born in 1924 in the Soviet Union
used to tell me that the Soviets would laugh at the brainwashing that was
happening in NK even back in the time when she was a young woman. But I do
agree with you. As someone who grew up and lived in USSR for a good portion of
my life I often think about the simplistic life of those times. People didn't
have everything under the sun as most in Western societies, but it was enough
and it was cherished.

~~~
contingencies
Countryside Romania still has a bit of that simplistic charm. I've been
further east along the China/NK border, speak Chinese, and the Chinese I met
there generally said NK now is like China in the 50s. That was 10 years ago,
though.

