
U.S. Lawmakers Seek to Criminally Outlaw Support for Boycotting Israel - joveian
https://theintercept.com/2017/07/19/u-s-lawmakers-seek-to-criminally-outlaw-support-for-boycott-campaign-against-israel/
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Animats
That's bad. The US has never criminalized a political position before. Even at
the height of of anti-Communism in the 1950s, there was a Communist Party of
the USA, and its leader, Gus Hall, wasn't in prison. He lived until 2000,
outliving the USSR, and died at age 90, in the US.

Support for Israel is getting weird. AIPAC is no longer the biggest supporter
of Israel in the US. Christians United for Israel, which is an operation of
John Hagee, the evangelical preacher, is. They have around 3 million members.
(The US has only around 4 million Jews, many of whom don't support AIPAC.)

There's a theological basis for Christian support of Israel.[1] It's kind of
strange, but some people take it seriously.

[1] [https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-10-24/why-american-
evangeli...](https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-10-24/why-american-evangelicals-
are-huge-base-support-israel)

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al3xnull
I think the fact that both the left and right agree on this is insane and goes
to show how little regard either wing has for actual liberty. Although I
support Israel, trying to "protect" their country by stop individual actions
is mind-blowing how backwards that action is.

For me, it just reiterates that politicians needs less time in office with
less things to govern. I hope that this bill receives the attention it
deserves to defeat it.

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barking
It's like when Israel says jump, the USA asks how high.

The USA's unconditional support for Israel despite its oppression of the
Palestinians has poisoned its reputation in the entire Muslim world.

~~~
Spivak
Given what's be happening recently I don't think that supporting Israel even
ranks in the top 10.

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gregw134
There's a good write-up here, which claims the bill only applies to
corporations and not individuals. (Which is still inexcusable of course).

[http://www.thedailybeast.com/pay-no-mind-to-the-fake-
ruckus-...](http://www.thedailybeast.com/pay-no-mind-to-the-fake-ruckus-about-
a-phony-israel-anti-boycott-law)

~~~
tptacek
What makes you think this is a good writeup? It seems pretty incoherent.

* It claims that the Office of Antiboycott Compliance explains that the law affects only corporations. Setting aside the fact that a prohibition on commercial boycotts is no more constitutional than one on individual persons, _the OAC explains no such thing_ ; it in fact says the opposite: "The term "U.S. person" includes all individuals, corporations and unincorporated associations resident in the United States... (and so on)".

* In pointing to OAC, Michaelson is relying on Commerce's regulatory authority to explain the meaning of a statute. But the whole point of regulatory authority is that the executive branch controls it: the "Foreign Boycotts Prohibition" yields to President Donald J. Trump the authority to issue regulations within his Foreign Boycott authority as he sees fit and without Congressional approval.

* It says the proposed law is a "nothingburger" because similar regulation had already been on the books since the 1970s. Leaving aside the fact that the new law makes it statutorily unlawful to respond to a foreign or UN call to boycott Israel, _the old law is also horrible and unconstitutional_. We don't worry about it because it's rarely enforced. The Senate proposes to breathe new life into it.

* The notion that the law will in reality only bind on corporations is undermined by the fact that the law has been used to prosecute labor unions.

* Even the specific correction about "furnishing information" makes little sense. The ACLU claims the law penalizes requests for information about boycotts. Michaelson corrects the ACLU: the law only penalizes asking the UN for information about the commercial activities of others --- in other words, the law targets boycotts arranged by the UN and penalizes requests for the UN to supply information... about boycotts.

In other words, everyone is wrong: the ACLU, Greenwald, AIPAC and the bill’s
sponsors, and Jay Michaelson. But things still appear to be extremely bad.

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jacobwilliamroy
When U.S. politicians do crazy stuff like this its typically because they're
making a concession over something (they think) is unimportant in exchange for
something they really want - trading favors for favors.

What's the context here that I'm missing out on? I'd like to know what we're
getting out of all this blind pro-israelism.

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DanBC
> What's the context here that I'm missing out on?

Votes from US Christian extremists.

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duality
Even if passed, could this law withstand a challenge in court?

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dogma1138
Considering that boycott won't as it violates WTO rules and and the bilateral
trade agreements between the US and Israel it can.

Canada's court just a few weeks ago had to strike out few BDS pushed
resolutions because the boycott violated the existing trade agreements.

For the most part boycotting is already illegal this is just a political
statement that won't change the reality on the ground.

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detaro
What specific WTO rules apply to private citizens?

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glbl
Regardless of what the US might do towards duplicitous policy making, there
will never be peace in Isreal while they are acting in a hostile manner.

Two wrongs do not maketh a right!

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pasbesoin
Well, on the other side, we could simply stop paying for Israel. U.S. tax
dollars, and preferential treatment, that keep them there.

I'm not saying we do that. I _am_ saying that some of Israel's positions and
lobbying do not engender my favorable attitude.

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mcappleton
I clicked through to the actual bills decsription and would agree this is
pretty ridiculous. However us support for Israel is important because they
will do a much better job of handling the Iranian threat than the us
government.

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bootlooped
There are a lot of legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government. If you
think these are all just because it's a Jewish state, I don't think you're
being intellectually honest.

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bsaul
there is some kind of exceptional treatment regarding israel at every un
organizations that makes you wonder what is this state doing that is so
repulsive that no other country in the world deserve such finger pointing.

The fact that this state is the only jewish state and that the jewish people
historically never truely had the same rights except for some exceptional
times and places, could be a hint that antisemitism does in fact play a role
here...

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SomeStupidPoint
You're one of those people who thinks "Muslim" is code for "Arab", aren't you?

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dang
That is uncivil and crosses into personal attack. We've had to ask you before
not to do this.

Please don't take a thread further into flamewar.

We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828732](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14828732)
and marked it off-topic.

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madaxe_again
How can they force citizens to spend their money on Israeli goods and
services? Or is it rather a ban on the promotion of such a boycott, rather
than the act of boycotting?

If the latter, surely this can be still promulgated through a call to boycott
apartheid states, or states that engage in illegal occupation, rather than
explicitly naming Israel?

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thrill
How can they force citizens to spend their money on health insurance?

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trendia
The Supreme Court argued that it's cobstitutional to impose a tax on everyone
and have a deduction if you have health insurance.

It's entirely equivalent to a fine for not having healthcare, in that the
result of both policies is that it forces people to pay a private company for
a good to avoid paying the government a set amount.

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ars
I'm not in favor of this law at all.

But when groups use pressure tactics to try to get stores and organizations to
boycott Israel, it goes to a whole new level.

And that level is virtually indistinguishable from anti-Semitism. And
outlawing that, that I _would_ support.

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mikeash
Boycotting Israel is completely different from anti-semitism. Israel and Jews
are separate things, and there are more of us outside of Israel than in it.

~~~
ars
It can be separate, yes.

But in the real world it virtually never is.

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MaxfordAndSons
That's an outrageous statement. The majority of jewish people I know do not
support Israel's policies/actions (which, by the way, not supporting its
policies/actions does not equate to not supporting its right to exist), and I
know many. Are they all anti-semites? I've been to Israel, and many (jewish
and not) Israelis I met don't support their nation's policies.

So, can confirm, in the real world it sometimes is and sometimes isn't.

