
Archaeologists explore a rural field in Kansas, and a lost city emerges - Jerry2
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-kansas-lost-city-20180819-htmlstory.html
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stephenhuey
I visited the Cahokia museum in East St. Louis and although there’s still not
much to see since most of it has not been excavated yet, it’s still
fascinating there was such a vast Native American city in the Midwest. For
centuries, no one had any idea it was even there, and if you’d told Americans
a century ago, they probably wouldn’t have believed it was possible. Now this
new discovery is a city almost as big with over 20,000 people, which
contradicts how we thought the plains had only nomadic tribes chasing the
buffalo. For perspective on how advanced some of these Native American cities
were, I recommend you visit the ruins of Teotihuacan since half of it has been
excavated.

*edit typo

~~~
bunderbunder
Heck, as far as I can tell, even now, a lot of people who live within a few
miles of the place don't really know it was there.

I don't know that it's quite accurate to say that it wasn't recognized as a
major site for centuries. European settlers pretty much immediately recognized
the area as evidence of a large civilization. They just didn't believe anyone
related to Plains Indians were capable of monumental architecture, so they
instead cooked up legends about the "mound builders" that typically insinuated
that they were built by a European culture - one of the lost tribes of Israel
is a popular suspect - that had since disappeared.

~~~
jacobolus
> _one of the lost tribes of Israel is a popular suspect_

As far as I know, this idea is a creation of the Mormon church, which believes
(based on their foundational holy text) that all native Americans are
descended from a lost tribe of Israel, and which has spent significant
resources sending archeologists around North America to prove this theory. (It
turns out that if you lead with your conclusions, it is hard to do science.
Some of the investigations of physical evidence are alright, but the reasoning
and conclusions drawn from them are farcical.)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mo...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_and_the_Book_of_Mormon)

~~~
bunderbunder
The Lost Tribe folklore was already almost 2 centuries old by the time Smith
produced the Book of Mormon.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Lost_Tribes#Native_America...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Lost_Tribes#Native_Americans)

~~~
jacobolus
Aha, fair enough. The Mormons have put a lot more work into trying to
defend/substantiate this theory than its other adherents have, from what I can
tell searching around the web.

~~~
ChainOfFools
it's also not unreasonable to assume that the prevalence of these myths was
itself a major contributing substrate of the theology dreamed up by Joseph
Smith.

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rbanffy
If anyone from the LA Times is listening, even though I am accessing the
website through our US VPN, I'm still fully protected by the GDPR.

The geographic block is futile and ineffective as a liability protection.

~~~
notdonspaulding
How would you expect to impose any injunctions or damages on the LA Times for
disregarding an EU law?

In other words, to what court will you take your case? A US court won't hold a
US company to account for breaking a non-US law. A European court has no
jurisdiction to impose any penalties on a non-European company.

Does the LA Times have EU offices? How are you tying the two together
otherwise?

~~~
hrktb
> A European court has no jurisdiction to impose any penalties on a non-
> European company.

In theory can’t an european court request the US gov. To hand over the CEO for
illegal activities ?

Not that this case would go these lengths and I have not idea of any merit of
OP’s point.

~~~
pellucidar
What illegal activities? Tracking users is not illegal in the US, nor is
blocking access. You could make wearing purple illegal again and ask the US to
extradite folks for it, but we wouldn’t do it so you wouldn’t bother asking.

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ChuckMcM
_French explorers arrived a century later but found nothing. Disease likely
wiped out Etzanoa, leaving it to recede into legend._

That is such a sad thing. While a hundred years might seem like a "long time"
it really isn't. Imagine some city in 1920 (like say New York) with its
population 5 million souls, was now an empty ruin.

~~~
flashman
Certainly archaeology could demonstrate disease if human remains were found.
But like all things that outlive us, we forget that cities aren't permanent.
Perhaps they moved on because the grass was greener elsewhere (there was a
'Little Ice Age' in 1650), or maybe political strife split their loyalties.

What will become of a hundred thousand towns across the world as the
temperatures rise and their water dries up?

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beentherefirst
I live about an hour away and I’ve been down there recently to look for
artifacts. No luck. It’s surprisingly difficult to learn where exactly where
to look for them.

~~~
dforrestwilson
I have to ask since you are the only other Kansan I have encountered on HN.

What do you do and how did you end up there?

~~~
beentherefirst
I get down on the Walnut river a little down stream from Etzanoa. Watching
YouTube clips of artifact hunting says on the sand bars and banks after a rain
is best.

~~~
bunderbunder
Please don't go collecting artifacts like that; leave it to the pros.

Being able to collect detailed records of archaeological finds, including
things like soil stratigraphy that require very specialized knowledge, is an
important part of preserving the heritage associated with these artifacts. An
artifact that's been stripped of its provenance has been stripped of almost
all its scientific value.

It's also potentially illegal - always on state and federal lands, and even on
private land you need to get the owner's permission.
([http://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-antiquities-act-
statute/14587](http://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-antiquities-act-statute/14587))

~~~
flashman
Genuinely curious, how do archaeologists catalogue items found in sand bars?
Through correlation with upstream sites? I can't imagine stratigraphy would be
terribly helpful.

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JKCalhoun
Cool.

And pronounced "Ar-KAN-zes" City for some reason.

~~~
Digory
It's in Kansas, not Arkansas.

Tradition says the English and French pronounced the same Native tribe
differently. Through Wichita, the river is the "ar-Kansas River," but through
Little Rock, it's the "Arkansaw." (I see some others say there are potentially
two Sioux words at issue)

[https://www.businessinsider.com/why-we-pronounce-kansas-
and-...](https://www.businessinsider.com/why-we-pronounce-kansas-and-arkansas-
differently-2014-2)

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ntnn
Does someone have a non region-locked link?

~~~
Firerouge
[https://outline.com/Adhn2h](https://outline.com/Adhn2h)

Lots of news websites seem to think they can't function without tracking
readers. I wonder how they got by when street corner newsstand were the only
way to get views.

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
_I wonder how they got by when street corner newsstand were the only way to
get views._

They got by because people paid them money to buy the newspaper.

~~~
Retric
Not really, newspapers made most of their money from advertising. You still
see people handing out free newspapers in cities, but the advertising is worth
more when someone pays for the paper as it’s assumed someone is going to read
it vs using it as a free stack of paper.

EX:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Express_(Washington,_D.C._ne...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Express_\(Washington,_D.C._newspaper\))

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
Well here's the fantastic thing about newspapers and newspaper websites - you
have the option of not buying them, and not visiting them. It's much nicer for
the rest of us if you exercise those rights rather than complaining.

