
Single malt Scotch whisky targeted by United States tariffs - luu
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-49915034
======
crazy1van
The EU subsidized Airbus, which hurt the American company, Boeing. Therefore,
all Americans have to pay 25% more for european wines, cheeses, and whiskey.
How does this make any sense?

~~~
shantly
Drops demand for same items, hurting the producers and the countries they're
based in, while maybe also diverting consumer money to domestic alternatives
(or at least other countries that aren't quite so tariff'd). Right?

Not siding with the tariffs, but that's the idea, no?

~~~
lettergram
That’s actually what happens when tariffs are imposed yes.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
The only thing we can be certain of, when tariffs are imposed, is that the
price of _those goods / services_ go up.

------
DollarGuru
Maybe a silly question but it seems these big high ticket businesses like
Boeing and Airbus cannot provide affordable aircraft and survive without some
government intervention and the bar to entry is too high for new players so
why not come to some international agreement on how they are supported by
government instead?

It's seems better to have 2 manufacturers supported by government than to have
only 1 that essentially owns the whole market.

~~~
defertoreptar
Boeing contends otherwise:

> Myth: Aerospace is different from other industries and requires some level
> of government support.

> Fact: Boeing has proven otherwise. We have financed all of our new airplane
> programs without the kind of government handout that launch aid represents.

[http://www.boeing.com/company/key-orgs/government-
operations...](http://www.boeing.com/company/key-orgs/government-
operations/wto.page)

~~~
inferiorhuman
Do you expect Boeing to come out and say they accept subsidies when their
whole business model is to sue the competition?

[https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-
boein...](https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-boeing-
washington-20170503-story.html)

[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/boeings-
historic-t...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/boeings-historic-tax-
break-from-state-even-bigger-than-thought/)

Boeing doesn't necessarily get direct subsidies but they get hefty tax breaks.
Boeing will almost certainly get bailed out by the feds if the MAX or 777X
come close to bankrupting them.

~~~
defertoreptar
> Do you expect Boeing to come out and say they accept subsidies when their
> whole business model is to sue the competition?

I don't have to, since Boeing already came out and said as much on the URL I
posted. They make a distinction between legal and illegal subsidies recognized
by the WTO.

------
inferiorhuman
The list[0] goes way beyond food and liquor.

0:
[https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investig...](https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/enforcement/301Investigations/EU_Large_Civil_Aircraft_Final_Product_List.pdf)

------
bbanyc
On one hand, you have a sclerotic political establishment that at best hasn't
figured out that the '90s free trade playbook doesn't work on China and at
worst only cares about the WTO for its handy role in policy laundering.

On the other hand, you have this ridiculous flailing, which actually makes the
establishment look good. There really is no alternative.

Makes me want to start drinking. But since tariffs are up on scotch, I'll have
a bourbon instead.

~~~
sremani
Is it wrong to set the table for the upcoming negotiations with UK and EU. If
you list the tariffs against US in EU, it is not even a debate who is holding
the short end of the stick.

~~~
mads_ravn
Do you have any sources listing total tariffs on each side? I tried searching,
but couldn’t find anything.

~~~
defertoreptar
> The EU imposes a 10 percent tariff on passenger cars, compared with the 2.5
> percent U.S. duty on European autos.

A study by the CESifo Institute in Germany found unweighted average EU tariffs
of 5.2 percent, compared with the U.S. rate of 3.5 percent.

“The EU is by no means the paradise for free traders that it likes to think,”
Gabriel Felbermayr, director of the think tank’s Center for International
Economics, told the German business newspaper Handelsblatt.

[https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jul/22/europe-
resist...](https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jul/22/europe-resists-
donald-trumps-zero-tariff-trade-off/)

~~~
mads_ravn
Thanks for the link. But isn’t it sort of meaningless to talk about unweighted
percentages? If either side applies an extremely high tariff for a product
that is rarely traded, then it would have a large effect on the unweighted
average, but no real effect on trade (though I suppose you could argue that it
can affect single sectors in a devastating matter).

The best numbers I could find are more comparable, namely total US tariffs of
7.1 billion USD on imports worth 684 billion which approximately equals 1% vs
EU tariffs of 5.7 billion USD on imports worth 575 which is also roughly equal
to 1% [1,2]. To me that seems pretty fair.

However I think the biggest issue (as an EU citizen) is the US insistence on
not adhering to EU regulatory regimes, which is what I think made a lot of
people oppose the TTIP. Also note that this has not been an issue when
negotiating a EU-Japan trade deal.

[1] [https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/unfree-trade-
tru...](https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/politics/unfree-trade-trump-may-
have-a-point-about-eu-tariffs-ifo-
says/23581496.html?ticket=ST-21874344-CeOdaGjCT0TJWcvTs9YW-ap3) [2]
[https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-
east/europe...](https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-
east/europe/european-union)

------
lettergram
Note, This is a WTO imposed fine basically. The WTO sided with the U.S. when
it claimed the EU subsidized Airbus with below market rate loans. The US won
the case. The outcome is basically this.

It’s amazing to me the EUs solution to this is to increase tariffs themselves
(at least that’s their threat). It would be much cheaper to just stop
subsidizing airbus or reduce it to a level where it’s not undercutting Boeing
(which is the real target).

~~~
berkut
The EU have a corresponding case against the US and Boeing as well.

They can also apply tariffs based on the fact they didn't do so last time they
won a case against the US and Boeing:

[https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/29/eu-ready-to-instantly-
reta...](https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/29/eu-ready-to-instantly-retaliate-if-
us-imposes-tariffs-in-airbus-wto-case/)

~~~
lettergram
... then I guess the bet is Boeing took less aid? Seems like a pretty bold
move, with no gain.

Honestly, from Trumps perspective it’s probably a win either way. A less
integrated world appears to be his goal

------
XMPPwocky
If the UK leaves the EU while these tariffs are still in place, are they still
valid under the WTO ruling against the EU?

~~~
rob74
EU or no EU, Britain is a prominent member in the Airbus consortium
([https://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-
presence/uk.html](https://www.airbus.com/company/worldwide-presence/uk.html)),
and that's unlikely to change despite Brexit. Although I wouldn't put it past
Trump to ignore that in order to encourage Brexit, of course...

------
caf
Since Scotch whisky has a very long shelf life, it seems like if you're in the
US then now might be the time to buy a couple of cases of some reasonably in-
demand mid-market single malt with a view to flipping them for a quick profit
when the price goes up 25%.

------
siruncledrew
> _" The US was given the go-ahead to impose tariffs on $7.5bn (£6.1bn) of
> goods it imports from the EU following a World Trade Organisation (WTO)
> ruling on Wednesday."_

After reading this, I had the stupid question:

Couldn't producers of tariffed goods in an EU country send their goods to a
shipping hub of a nearby non-EU country to change the country of origin to
avoid the tariffs?

Example: Could or could not Scottish whisky producers send their bottles to be
shipped from Iceland to America to avoid the tariffs?

My presumption of the article is that places matter more to the tariffs than
the actual goods themselves sourced from anywhere else (?).

~~~
caf
It's the production location. Maybe you could ship it in barrels and bottle it
in Mexico or something though.

~~~
p2t2p
If they “sell” it to a firm in Iceland and then said firm sells it to US does
the same apply?

------
pvaldes
Plus Spanish wines, olive oil, cheese and iberian ham exports valued 1270
million Euro.

I assume that Canada and Russia will keep gladly buying this products as
before, and that new channels will open with China and other Asian countries.
Is not impossible also that the raise in prices for US citizens would be made
permanent after trump interlude by the increase of demand. Is uncertain what
will happen.

Interesting times to be alive ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
ghostDancer
Canada buying and then selling them to the USA more expensive than direct but
cheaper than with the penalty.

~~~
pvaldes
Is a probable outcome, yup. Or US citizens smuggling products across the
frontier, The Simpson's style.

Taking in mind that those are among some of the most faked products in the
world I would not surprise if a black market emerges to overcome regulation
and somebody became pretty rich selling counterfeits.

Maybe US now will need a wall also in the North, who knows?. Other probably
scenery is that a lot of US citizens start self-restricting themselves to
consume only US products that is a perfectly respectable option also (but
would increase pressure against US nature).

------
throwaway010718
Does the U.S. president claim that the Chinese are paying the tariffs on the
EU products too ? I still can't tell if our all tactics and no strategy
president understands how tariffs works.

~~~
Bootwizard
He's running the US like he runs all his businesses: into the ground.

~~~
cobookman
“The US first filed the case in 2004, arguing that cheap European loans for
Airbus amounted to illegal state subsidies.“

“The US was given the go-ahead to impose tariffs on $7.5bn (£6.1bn) of goods
it imports from the EU following a World Trade Organisation (WTO) ruling on
Wednesday.”

The WTO imposed the tariffs against the EU due to a recent ruling.

~~~
belltaco
The US did not _have_ to impose the tariffs under WTO but chose to.

------
johngrefe
This is an excellent move, as it'll be removed as part of a UK wide FTA post
Brexit. Puts the US in the position of "giving something up".

------
andrei_says_
I am wondering if someone is keeping track of laws in a git repo so we can see
diffs and possibly undo damage in the future?

------
asciident
I think this could be a good moment for us to pause our consumption a bit, and
think about buying only what we really need. Not just because of the tariffs
but as a signal that we as consumers can pull back when necessary.

~~~
hannasanarion
Parmasean isn't an extravagance.

~~~
snagglegaggle
Parmesan cheese from Parma is. That was one of the shocking things to me about
European stores: there was only Parmesan (or yes, Parmesan-style) cheese from
Italy due to food provenance laws, and yes, it was some of the most expensive
cheese in the store.

~~~
riffraff
You can actually get many kinds of cheese which is similar to parmigiano in
Europe. Grana Padano is a much less expensive protected hard cheese, and many
producers have similar non-protected cheese (Biraghi is a very large producer,
for example). There's usually plenty of mixed pre-grated cheese bags too.

The point is: it's not called parmigiano or parmesan, as that would be
cheating the consumer.

~~~
molmalo
> as that would be cheating the consumer.

That's the excuse, it's more about pleasing the local producers, as
Denomination of origin laws generally are. As a consumer, I care much much
more about taste and price for the same type of product.

That is, if it tastes the same or better, and is cheaper.... I don't care if
it was produced 100 meters from my house outside of Europe, or in the basement
of a 1300-year old church in a specific region of Italy. With today's
technology, it's perfectly possible to emulate the ambient conditions from the
original place in the super controlled food producing facilities.

But the local producers in said region might lose competitiveness or would
have to stop pricing it as a "premium" product just because of where it was
produced.

So, in my opinion, the concept of Denomination of Origin ends up being a
legalized scam, as it end ups cheating more on the consumer, because in
reality it doesn't necessarily mean the product is of better quality (as it's
often advertised).

~~~
riffraff
> As a consumer, I care much much more about taste and price for the same type
> of product.

that's great, as you're free to buy any of the things not called "Parmigiano".
There's plenty of awesome stuff which is not PDO/PGI.

The only reason you would call something unrelated "parmigiano" is if you
wanted to attach yourself to the concept of "premium" without having to follow
the same rules.

You can absolutely make a great _succesful_ product and not give a damn about
denomination of origin rules.

Bolgheri Sassicaia[0], for example, established itself as a fantastic wine
without having an italian DOC(G) classification, until one was defined
explicitly for it.

> So, in my opinion, the concept of Denomination of Origin ends up being a
> legalized scam, as it end ups cheating more on the consumer, because in
> reality it doesn't necessarily mean the product is of better quality (as
> it's often advertised).

But that is true of any advertisement. I agree that the basic denomination of
origin does not imply quality, but I don't see how removing it improves
things.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenuta_San_Guido](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenuta_San_Guido)

~~~
snagglegaggle
My experience is that it's basically impossible to find an equivalent product
without allowing the use of the place name as a general adjective.

In the US origin is separate and required. So, if you want Parmesan from Parma
you can still be sure you'll get it.

