

Culture of exclusion (2012) - diN0bot
http://old.ryanfunduk.com/culture-of-exclusion/

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benaiah
God, you're whiny.

If you want a conference without drinking, organize one without drinking. The
vast majority of people clearly enjoy the drinking, and they're the ones that
are organizing them.

I live in Alaska, so I can't go to meetups or conferences or such without
spending an additional $300+ on a plane ticket. Am I being "excluded" by my
choice of location? Sure. Am I writing whiny blog posts insisting people
should do meetups up here? No - and they won't happen, because there isn't a
demand. Same thing with you and your strange aversion to other people enjoying
themselves in the way they see fit.

Don't get me wrong - I personally wouldn't drink as much as seems to be
typical at these events. But that's a personal choice, just like your desire
not to drink is a personal choice. I actually get better at programming and
technical discussion after a beer or two, generally.

If you don't want to go, don't go. But stop whining about it.

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foolfoolz
I like this post a lot, thank you for doing such extensive research. I agree
with about 60% of it. Yes i think drinking is glorified in the tech industry.
Yes the place I work at prides itself on company happy hours and every company
event has alcohol (and we even have a new rule, no hard alcohol at large
events because well.. you know). Yes it's backwards that a major part of
conferences is the party scene, and somewhat disconcerting to hear JSConf was
selling party-only tickets. This perpetuates a drinking culture that no
industry needs.

However, even with those flaws, but I don't see it as mandatory, exclusive, or
a barrier to entry. Maybe it's just where I have worked, but there are people
I work with who are teetotallers - lets not kid around though they are in the
minority. When my team celebrated a huge event, we had a bottle of champagne
accompanied by a nice bottle of non-alcoholic sparking lemonade / beverage. It
wasn't about the drinking, it was about sharing the celebration.

I do drink on my own time during the weekends, but I do not drink at the
office or at most work events - If I have a drink, it'll be A drink, not
multiple. It's mostly because I go to the gym at night and it's a lot harder
after drinking. So I avoid it, pour myself a glass of whatever else is
available, and haven't had anyone ask me why I'm not drinking alcohol.

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SnakeSupply
Drinking beer does not equal binge drinking. Few people I know are truly
talented enough to binge drink on purely beer.

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tzs
Here's what the author picks as his lead off example of how conference culture
revolves around binge drinking:

> Graham Lee says that, as a speaker, he doesn't want to be in some private
> 'speaker room', he wants to be in the 'attendee room'. He qualifies what he
> means by 'attendee room': the bar. Sounds about right.

He cites this tweet of Graham Lee:

> Conferences: don't put me in a speaker room. The speaker room is the
> attendee room and is usually also known by the name "bar".

Seriously...a guy preferring to be in the bar than in a "speakers room"
indicates binge drinking!?

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taylodl
There's also a strange obsession with bacon, which as a vegetarian, I just
don't get. But that's alright, I figure I make up in drinks for what I don't
eat of the bacon!

But seriously, every conference I've been to has always had 'birds of a
feather' or 'gray beard' meetups at night where there's moderate drinking and
very good discussions.

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sklivvz1971
It's not a culture of exclusion when you choose not to do something...

Also, basically he's complaining because a bunch of 20 somethings drink.
Nothing to do with computers. He would find the same "culture" anywhere else
(except religious groups, muslims, etc. but you get my meaning).

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secstate
Seems to me this is more an aspect of programming ... especially amongst such
trendy topics as JS or Rails, which are full of 20-somethings who have a lot
of disposable income and generally small, if any immediate family
responsibilities.

Sorry if I'm overly generalizing the field here, but I just got back from
DjangoCon where there was one bar night, and one architectural boat tour of
Chicago night. So a little of everything, which was awesome.

I think at least part of that is that, at least in my limited experience,
Django is not a hot property in the world of web development, and a fair
number of people had interests that went beyond undergrad. Again, sincere
apologies to folks in all areas of development if I'm being overly general.

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HillOBeans
I think the OP has a point - and its much harder to see when you're a member
of the majority. There IS a culture of drinking in the programming profession.
And some comments I see here remind me of comments I have seen when when other
demographics complain about feeling excluded in this profession: "stop
whining," "deal with it," etc. I think that there is some fear that these
complaints will somehow "ruin the fun" for everyone else. I do think that the
average age of conference attendees has much to do with it (and probably has
more than a little to do with some of the other issues i.e. sexist treatment).
A little maturity can go a long way towards easing these issues....

~~~
marssaxman
Is this "culture of drinking in the programming profession" any different than
the general culture of drinking in other business environments? It does not
seem that way to me.

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cdmoyer
I don't think this is a tech industry specific thing. In a previous career in
sales, all the conferences and events ended each night with a boozefest. The
most common way to celebrate a sale was... to go out drinking.

Friends that are doctors or lawyers talk about conferences, which as I'm led
to believe, are some possibly interesting talks during the day, and then a
party/drink-up at night!

(I didn't drink during the sales phase of my life, and generally found there
were other people drinking soda or able to handle their liquor and hold a real
conversation at most events.)

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wmf
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3788497](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3788497)

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kweinber
I am completely in agreement with this. I am very tired of the emphasis on
drinking. Most of the best engineers i know aren't heavy drinkers and
conferences would be way better if the heavy drinkers had to get their fixes
off-premises.

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fleitz
Other people like doing stuff I don't like, they're excluding me by not doing
what I want! Wah!

Bars are far less exclusionary when it comes to gender than the tech industry,
so perhaps we have something to learn from alcohol culture.

There's nothing wrong with drinking, if specific people can't not act like
sexist assholes while drinking, then _they_ have a problem which _they_ should
fix. Watch what happens in a bar when someone disrespects a woman, you get a
tweet to the face.

~~~
hrkristian
I would hardly think bar culture is a good example of gender equality of any
sort. As you say, in fact, disrespect a woman in any way and a stranger will
probably knock you out. That's barbarism, right down to the preferential
treatment and free speech oppression at best.

Even so, why is gender brought up? The author only used it initially as an
example of issues in the tech world.

If you want to go there though, bars are the least inclusive (of non-
stereotypes) because of the effects of alcohol; promoting our more "savage"
traits. Personal experience.

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yetanotherphd
"What could be more enticing than the insightful conversation being had by 50
drunk introverts telling "that's what she said" jokes?"

That's nice, remember to be inclusive of everyone except introvert beta males.

