

Thank PG: For reclaiming the word 'hacker' - user24

It's great to see that the web at large is mostly past that 1990s phase of being obsessed with green text on black backgrounds and lists of copypasted and sometimes just made up 'information' on 'hacking'.<p>I know you didn't start the movement to reclaim the word (that credit probably goes to ESR[1]), but I think between HN and your essays, you've done a huge amount to reinvigorate the hacker scene.<p>It's now acceptable to ask what someone's hacking on without having to worry about strange looks or tirades about script kiddies. This is really good.<p>So thanks.<p>[1] http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html
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raganwald
Hacking is the exploitation of the unexpected side-effects. Hacking absolutely
and positively started with exploiting security "holes" in telecommunications
and shared computing environments. That's exactly what Steve Wozniak was doing
when Steve Jobs met him.

Hacking then and hacking now has an air of subversion to it. Coming up with an
exploit like Firesheep is hacking. Figuring out how to use PS3s as a
supercomputer--and simultaneously subverting the entire business of building
and selling supercomputers for ginormous amounts of money AND the business of
selling gaming consoles--is hacking. Super-logging out of Facebook is hacking.
Renting a botnet and using it to extort money from a business is not hacking,
fine, that's just criminal.

But yeah, calling yourself a "hacker" ought to mean frowns from establishment
types. "Hacker" is almost the antonym of "professional." If you want to be a
super-genius who works within the system, the word you're looking for is
"nerd."

I categorically reject the idea that the word needs to be "reclaimed" from
script kiddies. If anything, I want the word reclaimed from money-grubbing
bourgeois poseurs who happen to be interested in technology businesses.

I respect and admire people who want to start businesses. I respect and admire
people who love to create great software. But if someone is ashamed of being
associated with Steve Wozniak or John Draper, maybe they need to ask if they
are really a hacker rather than asking if the word "hacker" is being
improperly used.

p.s. <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1914498>

~~~
user24
I suggest that figuring out how to use PS3s as a supercomputer would be a
great hack whether it subverted sony's business or not.

There's nothing shameful in being associated with Wozniak or Draper or any of
the great technological innovators.

There is something shameful in being associated with the "l33t h4x0r kr3w" (or
Iranian Cyber Army) and those who participate in mass defacements etc.

edit:

Also, I really don't like the idea that you're pushing, that you _have_ to
work 'outside the system' in order to be a hacker. I completely agree that
important attributes of being a hacker are the ability to see problems from
non-traditional viewpoints, to come up with unusual solutions, to challenge
the _de rigeur_ way of doing things, to disrupt. And those attributes are
shared by many subversives.

But the important difference to me is that a hacker is _constructively_
subversive.

~~~
raganwald
Compare to Sales. There are slimy people who sell products that don't work.
There are great salespeople who transform businesses and people's lives for
the better.

I'm sure lots of salespeople cringe at the thought of being associated with
the slimeballs. But yet... It's all Sales and they are all salespeople.

EDIT: By all means call yourself "constructive." But it is not a requirement
of hacking. How was stealing telecommunications services constructive for the
telecommunications companies?

~~~
user24
This is worrying then. That's a good argument, that phreaking wasn't
constructive. I once started making a Lego robot that could play my gameboy.
That's not constructive at all either.

But I'd like both of those to be great examples of hacking.

Is the important distinction motivation then? That phreaks weren't motivated
by an urge to crash the system but by an undying curiosity about how things
work?

~~~
raganwald
In the 1970s there were these hackers and they did certain things we admire
today. I only fear that we will put them on a pedestal and say that _that_ was
hacking but what kids do today is not hacking.

That's a little like saying that Jazz died with Miles Davis and that we should
call it "African-American Classical Music" and when kids do something
offensive today like slapping a saxophone reed or a tuba mouthpiece with their
tongues (James Carter and John Sass, respectively), it's not Jazz, it's noise.

I just don't trust myself to know how to say that subverting the telephone
system by emulating tones is hacking but routing 15% of the world's IP traffic
through your computers for military purposes is not hacking. I can only say
that I admire the first and deplore the second.

p.s. And yeah, Go Go Lego! I suggest there's an "air" of subversion involved
with hacking, but just a whiff. If it makes you happy, Hack On!

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jgrahamc
I disagree that the word has been reclaimed. In the media and in non-computing
circles the word hacker clearly means someone who breaks into computer
systems. Within the computer world I don't think the meaning of hacker ever
really went away.

Sure, here on Hacker News we all use hacker to mean something, but I think
outside of this little group little has changed.

Equally, I think stressing about this is a total waste of time. The average
joe thinks of a hacker as someone who breaks stuff. Oh well. I've got better
things to do then have a silly argument about the meaning of a word.

~~~
user24
I'm starting to see it breaking into more common usage[1]. I agree that we've
a way to go yet, and I agree that it's not hugely important. But I still think
there needs to be a word for 'innovative tinkerer', and that 'hacker' is that
word, and I don't want that word to be associated with criminality or
unethical behaviour.

[1] - hackaday, lifehacker, hackathon, etc etc. Still a specialist audience,
but I can't see lifehacker being born while hacker still meant 'the
manifesto'.

edit:

> Within the computer world I don't think the meaning of hacker ever really
> went away.

I'm not so sure about that at all. I've only been a developer for ten years
(which isn't that long really), so perhaps it's just that I've moved into more
aware circles, but when I started web dev work, 'hack' meant 'break into a
computer'. The word hack in terms of 'a hacky solution' or 'put a little hack
in there' wasn't so popular, but I concede that it was around back then.

But today I can talk to almost any developer and talk about hacking on such-
and-such a project and they know exactly what I'm talking about. So I think
progress has been made.

------
updog
I still think hackernews is inappropriately named. It should be called startup
news, but that doesn't have the same ring to it. Hacking is now a security
word. It hasn't been reclaimed at all, it's just confusing to everyone that
doesn't read this site (and still many that do).

~~~
smackfu
The misnaming works well though. The hacker part covers all the technical
posts, and the fact that it's on the YC domain covers all the startup posts.

If it was called startupnews, everyone would complain about the technical
posts.

~~~
aquateen
It used to be called Startup News, not much has changed w/ regard to
submissions.

~~~
gloob
If accuracy was the highest priority when choosing the site's name, it would
be called "Web Pages Voted on by a Reasonably Polite Community with a Curious
Taste for Speculation About What Might Eventually Become News, Rather Than
News Itself".

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runjake
This revisionist hacker/cracker thing is an ESR fabrication, and seemingly,
it's never going to go away.

To paraphrase raganwald, "Hacking is the exploitation of unexpected side
effects".

There are good hackers and bad hackers.I have been on both sides of the fences
since the beginning of the 80s. We were always known as hackers. Crackers were
always a subclass of hackers that "cracked" software protection schemes, but
_they were hackers, too_.

Virtually everyone inside and outside of the OSS community uses it correctly,
but still this small element of ESR followers try to ram it down our brain
stems. And then a new, young crowd discovers ESR's essay and attempts to
repeat the same with false authority.

------
pg
Nice of you to say so but I don't think I've had much effect on usage. The
greatest change has come from sites like lifehacker, or popular journalists
starting to use the word hack.

~~~
user24
True to a degree, but also you've made it more 'ok' for people to describe
themselves as hackers, which has rubbed off into the popular consciousness.

Reading Hackers and Painters (the essay not the book) was the first time I'd
realised that what I did had a _name_. I now take it for granted that other
developers consider themselves hackers. I'd argue that the term filtering down
to lifehacker and popular journalists is a consequence of that kind of mindset
change. Which you have helped with.

------
mcculley
What's wrong with green text on black backgrounds? That is how I have always
had my terminal configured. I think that may be because that is what I became
comfortable with on my VIC-20.

~~~
marssaxman
I set up the xterm on my netbook with a green/black scheme because it was so
charmingly retro, but have come to really enjoy the look; it's also a great
way to confuse (or amuse) people when I'm writing code at a bar. Some people
get the reference; others just wonder what the hell I'm doing.

------
KirinDave
While PG & ESR have each played a role in re-claiming the word hacker from the
stereotypes of old, there is a lot of lingering damage.

Once upon a time, a hacker was more like what the Maker/MAKE
Magazine/MakerFaire scene is now. It was people with a passion for creating
and tinkering and creating and tinkering some more. While much of that spirit
still remains, it also seems to have gained an air of entitlement about it,
and a fixation with legal issues like licensing. I think that, impressively
enough, RMS is the main driver behind this, but I think a lot of poorly
behaved businesses helped drive his point home.

Don't believe me? Think that the hacker ethos is inextricably or necessarily
tied to the free-as-in-speech and open software movement? Counterexamples:
Apple and Intel. Both these companies are very closed, but you'd find few
people willing to revoke the title of hacker from the hardworking
software/hardware engineers and designers at Apple or Intel. These companies
are successful, and they are that way in no small part because they manage to
tap their employee's passion for doing the the best work they possibly can and
effectively channeling that into a product.

------
ssp
The word hacker never meant "good programmer", it meant "good programmer from
the culture around MIT". I doubt Brian Kernighan or Dennis Ritchie or Doug
McIlroy ever refer to themselves or their peers as "hackers".

But even the MIT meaning of the word is diluted now to the point that it just
means "someone who possibly knows how to write programs".

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hasenj
While my terminal color is not exactly green, I still use the terminal and vim
for pretty much all my hacking endeavors. What do you have against the
terminal?

PS the people who can't use the terminal probably can never create a facebook
(imho).

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Goladus
This is also hacking (or rather, the result of hacking):
[http://metaboston.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452322d69e200e553965...](http://metaboston.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452322d69e200e5539654908833-500wi)

~~~
user24
context:
[http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/life/hacks_traditions/ha...](http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/life/hacks_traditions/hacking.shtml)

(thanks tineye)

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kreek
While it has one meaning for hacker news, at my company a 'hacker' is someone
who hacks around a problem. They do absolutely no design before hand and bash
away at something until it "works".

