
Why I bought a 2015 Macbook Pro - pier25
https://medium.com/@Pier/why-i-bought-a-2015-macbook-pro-fadf27ab4b
======
simonh
I had a go on a frind's new 15" with touch bar tonight when visiting for
Christmas Eve drinks. The touch bar looks lovely, it's a solid machine
(literally the trademark Apple solid block of Aluminium) and while I found the
feel of the keyboard a little odd it wasn't at all unpleasant. I typed about
300 words and it was accurate and tactile enough to give positive feedback.
The large touch pad felt really good. Overall, it seemed like a very high
quality product. He needs an SD interface because he takes a lot of pictures
for work, so uses a multi-adapter block which he says works fine.

Some of the design choices seem edgy maybe, but nothing that would be a deal
breaker for me. I don't need a new machine right now, but when the time comes
I see no blocking issues with it and in a few years time when I will be in the
market things like USB-C only will be even less of an issue.

I don't for one second buy the idea that Apple is neglecting the Mac. A
neglected product doesn't get an entirely new and unique touch interface
format that's fully supported by the integrated software from top to bottom,
an entirely new keyboard design and a risky but forward looking peripheral
port revamp. These are not choices you'd see made by a company treating the
device as an afterthought.

~~~
gutnor
Counterpoint: Mac Pro. An exiting new design, bold statement and technological
choices. All but dead.

We just have a few more months to know what Apple really has in mind. And by
the end of the year that will be clear if 2 year between updates minimum is
the new best for the mac line.

~~~
simonh
Counter-counterpoint, the 5K iMac now with wide colour gamut displays. They're
still pushing the Mac forward in ways no other computer manufacturer even
comes near, but not in every direction or into every market segment.

I don't know if new Mac Pros are in the roadmap. But if they're not, while
that would suck for those people that depend on them, it would hardly be the
end of the line for the Mac.

~~~
hdra
Counter-counter-counterpoint, the 5K iMac is pretty much a better specced iMac
from all angle. It has all the good stuff without sacrificing anything
important. It simply is a "better"machine.

The complain isn't with the wide colour gamut display or any new feature they
added, but its the other stuff that they sacrificed.

~~~
pier25
Exactly. Like the lack of a proper GPU.

------
wwweston
"I simply hate the new butterfly Apple keyboard. I don’t like the shallow key
travel and it’s super noisy."

Yup.

I started skeptical -- I'm still using a 2012 pre-retina MBP because I can
swap out the RAM/drive myself and it appears to be the last option without a
damn glossy screen. But I have to try the new hardware, because old hardware
doesn't last forever.

The noise and travel from the keyboard is atrocious. Guess if we're all using
the touchbar and the giant trackpad it doesn't matter?

~~~
derefr
I find it funny: nobody complained about the new keyboard design when it was
being used in the 2015 MacBook or in the new Magic Keyboard accessory. But now
that the same keyboard is a part in a product with a halo of negativity around
it, people are much more willing to hate on it.

~~~
SomeHacker44
I am a computer professional. I never even considered using the low end
MacBook. I imagine all other professionals also disregarded it. So, I don't
think this is a reasonable argument. Now that the second generation is being
used on a computer for professionals, professionals will start noticing the
flaws and voicing their complaints.

~~~
gumby
> I am a computer professional. I never even considered using the low end
> MacBook. I imagine all other professionals also disregarded it.

I am a computer professional. I was delighted to get the 2016 MacBook. I
imagine plenty, though not all, other professionals also use it -- in fact I
see them doing so. I'm also not pompous or insecure enough to feel that there
is some sort of magic dividing line between "real" computing folks and mere
"consumers".

I must admit I build only small programs with Xcode, doing most of my
development in Emacs, doing some compiles locally and much heavy lifting
remotely. I have one large simulator that can only run for a few thousand
steps locally, but I can happily run it on AWS.

On the other hand it's super-portable, perfectly powerful for the C, C++,
Lisp, Java and Rust development I need it for; it runs web browsers, various
clients etc perfectly well.

Perhaps if you have to do a lot of image or video editing it wouldn't be
enough. It's hard to say, since I used to do editing on a shared 2.5 MIPS
mainframe; on the other hand you wouldn't make a modern movie on a MacBook
Pro. But you probably write such a program on a machine far less powerful than
the users need.

------
whiskers
I did exactly the same thing. I was waiting for this release and knew I'd be
updating from my 2012 rMBP this time around.

But, in the end, I couldn't accept the large list of compromises. When it came
down to it I specced out a brand new 2015 rMBP on the Apple Store.

I've been using it a couple of weeks now and I'm still glad I made that
choice!

~~~
have_faith
Ditto. The compromises aren't worth it. I have no interest in "progress" for
progress sake. Achieving a thinner device is not laudable at the expense of
utility.

Planning to order a beefed up 15" 2015 model in the new year. Probably a
refurb.

------
gkoberger
Apple doesn't change anything: "They've stopped innovating and become boring."

Apple does change stuff: "Why did they ruin a good thing?"

Apple's whole thing is simple products that work really well, and they're now
suffering from it. Android or Windows can add 20 new bells and whistles,
whereas that's not Apple's thing. Their initial versions are freakishly well-
done (the current iPhone isn't that different from what was released a decade
ago, and the MBP hasn't really changed either), and subsequent models suffer
from that early level of polish and perfection. They need people to continue
buying (they are a company), but really don't have many ways to entice people
to.

~~~
sjtgraham
> They need people to continue buying (they are a company), but really don't
> have many ways to entice people to.

"What happened at Apple, to be honest, over the years was... the goal used to
be to make the best computers in the world. And.. that was goal 1. Goal 2, we
got from Hewlett-Packard actually which was "we have to make a profit".
Because if we don't make a profit we can't do goal 1. So, yeah, I mean we
enjoyed making a profit, but the purpose of making a profit was so we can make
the best computers in the world. Along the way somewhere those two got
reversed. The goal is to make a lot of money and well, if we have to make some
good computers well OK we'll do that... 'cause we can make a lot of money
doing that. And, it's very subtle.. it's very subtle at first, but it turns
out it's everything. That one little subtle flip... takes 5 years to see it..
but that one little subtle flip in 5 years means everything." \- Steve Jobs
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJKmnKbx-
aE&feature=youtu.be...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJKmnKbx-
aE&feature=youtu.be&t=1783))

------
jwr
Considering doing the same thing. I really do not like the compromises of the
latest models. But -- were you able to get the model with the discrete GPU? I
find the Iris Pro slow when driving an external 4k display, so I wanted to get
a model with the discrete GPU, but it seems only integrated graphics models
are available.

~~~
pier25
Author here.

I got the one with Iris Pro. I was a bit worried about performance but after
using it for a couple of days I'd say it's more than fine.

I haven't connected it to a 4K display though. I will try that and get back to
you.

~~~
jwr
Yeah, well, I _know_ that Iris Pro is slow with an external 4K display. Not
just 3d, even moving windows around is sluggish.

I was hoping it is still possible to buy a 2015 MBP with a discrete Nvidia GPU
in it.

~~~
pier25
I'm using a Dell P2415Q using the provided mDP to DP cable and it works just
fine in 4K at 60Hz.

Maybe you were using it at 30Hz?

~~~
jwr
No, at 60Hz, but we might differ in the definition of "fine" :-)

Moving windows around isn't smooth, resizing large windows is noticeably
laggy, things like expose seem slow as well.

------
kincardine
He makes no mention of how much money he saved by buying last year's model. I
am seriously on the edge of buying a 2016 15" MBP, but with many reservations.
I would definitely consider buying a 2015 model, but I'm having a really hard
time seeing the value in it.

I can get a reasonably well configured 2016 15" MBP for $3100, and a
reasonably "well" configured 2015 15" MBP for $2500. I just don't see shedding
$600 as being valuable for what I lose. I'm stilling paying an Apple premium,
and if I'm spending that much money on a MBP I want the current model.

~~~
ourcat
Add on the dongles/peripherals you'll need to buy. Don't forget the lack of
MagSafe/USB/etc..

I bought a 2nd-hand (from a specialist 2nd store, who test everything)
immaculate MacBook Pro 11,5 (Mid-2015) 2.5GHz i7 - 512Gb SSD - 16Gb RAM for
£1200 (~ $1500) and saved nearly £1000 on the same spec new.

Also, last night, if I'd had a new 2016 model, it would have flown across the
floor onto the hard kitchen floor as someone accidentally tripped on my power
cord.

Never been more thankful for MagSafe.

Buyer Beware.

------
marksamman
I did the same and I'm also sticking with El Capitan. I have no use of Siri,
Sierra broke Karabiner (Karabiner Elements mappings are not sufficient for my
keyboard), and mouse scroll was also behaving weird on Sierra. f.lux is
showing artifacts with fullscreen video. It feels like this will be my last
Mac, which sucks because I bought my first Mac three years ago and completely
stopped using Windows last year. It might be time to embrace Linux for desktop
when it's time to replace the 2015 MacBook Pro.

------
CommanderData
May do the same. Quality wise I can't find anything comparable to Mac and I
find the latest one has too many quirks.

A 2015 model or a Thinkpad. Still deciding.

~~~
pier25
I wanted to get a Thinkpad too but the monitor may come with PWM which is a
deal breaker for me.

~~~
CommanderData
Is this the same with Lenovo Yoga series?

------
wuiuhwuihwghuv
I also did the same and I'm very happy. I added a permanently-in microSD card
too for backup. Always buy last-generation.

------
gothy
I've got the very same thoughts.

My 2014 15" MBP is mostly fine, however it needs some cleaning and anti-
reflective coating issue has become really annoying lately. 2015 vs 2016 was
hard since there's so little feedback from actual users(power\professional
ones) and this post is really helpful. I haven't heard anything more
annoying(to my ears) than this new keyboard.

Still buying smth 1.5 years old(instead of 2.5 y.o.) not to satisfy your
expectations, just to meet your needs(old ones, but with no stain issues)...
Is it the world that "pro"+"mobile" Apple users should live from now on? :\

------
shams93
Yeah especially for developers there's never a need for the latest and
greatest. For creative professional they never upgrade the os on a piece of
hardware, that's another reaso they choose Macosx over Windows for things like
making hit songs or doing movie editing or soundtracks. For creative
professionals they need the latest hardware to test their entire setup with
the next version of MacOsx. As developers its moree cost effective for us to
buy these second hand systems from creative professionals doing their upgrade
cycle than going brand new.

~~~
dblohm7
If you write software using a language with a compilation step, you certainly
need the latest and greatest.

~~~
pier25
Except that this time the "latest and greatest" doesn't really offer better
compilation times.

------
ourcat
Did exactly the same thing here. Bought 2nd-hand. Immaculate. Saved £900!

------
eiriklv
Did the same thing. Then I went even further and bought a maxed out 2011 17"
MBP.

------
perfmode
I did the same and I have zero regrets.

~~~
jjawssd
+1

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caycep
this is sort of my modus operandi...every time they do a new form factor I
usually wait till the second release.

I for one, do like the new direction of the MacBooks Pro - I think the ideal
would be a 13" as 1) all the dedicated GPUs in the mobile space that I have
used have always crapped out due to the combo of heat and bad BGA array solder
(maybe things are better now than the fiascos with '08 vintage nVidia and ATI
chips but that instilled a healthy amount of paranoia), and I have been moving
towards wireless everything, dongle-free workflows. External storage and
gizmos are through bluetooth or 802.11ac, or Apple TV airplay when possible.
Assuming hardware v.2 gets some polished and the fancy contoured batteries,
that will probably be good for me.

I suspect the Mark Gurman article was right - could have used a little more
polish. Now that Jony Ive and Bob Mansfield's attn turned elsewhere, Apple has
to find good successors to their roles...but this is something a successful
corp has to do or else fall by the wayside.

------
amelius
These recent articles about the MBP make me wonder: am I the only one who
dislikes working on laptops in general, and refuses to buy one?

~~~
ux-app
I think very few people _choose_ to work at a laptop when a desktop is
available.

~~~
macspoofing
A docked laptop is as good as a desktop.

~~~
vacri
No, it really isn't. Desktop cpus blow mobile cpus out of the water (same with
gpus, of course), and can use _far_ more RAM and disk storage. Laptops simply
have the rather massive advantage of portability.

~~~
lmm
Does the horsepower give you any extra capability these days though? My laptop
(Surface Book) is plenty powerful enough for development, even a certain
amount of 3D rendering.

~~~
vacri
It depends what you're doing as to whether the CPU is enough, but RAM is still
a frequently-cited constraint in the laptop world. Obviously with the immense
rise in popularity of laptops, mobile CPUs are now 'fast enough' and have been
for a while, but when you do need the grunt, desktops are nice. I imagine most
developers these days have 'forgotten' how nicely desktops perform, simply due
to lack of access.

My own anecdata: I work in two places, one where I have a 'nice' laptop (some
old-but-beefy Alienware thing) and one where I have a 'nice' whitebox desktop.
When I'm on the desktop, I find that I'm not keeping my computer's limitations
in mind as I do my work, whereas on the laptop I do. It's not at the forefront
of my mind, but it's there to some degree. Before I moved to the Alienware
(16G ram), I was on an 8G laptop, and I had daily issues with that constraint
- even though all I used daily were terminals, about 15-20 browser tabs[1],
and maybe a screencap program.

Then I go home and play games, and in that realm, laptops really are the
middle-child if the game has any GPU or CPU heft (though again, laptops have
the benefit of portability).

[1] not all website are created equal, of course...

------
davidf18
I own the basic 2015 15" model and it works really well. The discounted price
difference between the two models is $400. The 512 GB 2016 model (as opposed
to the 256 GB model) has SSD read benchmarks that are considerably faster than
the 2015 model if that is important. The 2016 model is somewhat smaller and
lighter and the battery life is about 2 hours longer. I like the keyboard on
the 2016 model and many seem to like it after they get used to it. For me the
MagSafe adapter is annoying because after a short time it start to fall off if
it is hanging over a table edge. The power adapters on the 2015 and earlier
models have problems with the insulating material coming off. The 2016 model
has a replaceable cord that detaches from the power brick. The 2016 models can
drive 5K displays.

------
iagooar
I got an MBP 13'' last year, and after reading many of the internet reviews
and reports, I'll be sticking with it for at least a couple more generations /
years, if not many more.

I have to admit, that I find the touchbar to be a gimmick - but a gimmick with
lots of potential. Once Apple has ironed out the current issues, it might
become a pretty neat enhancement to the rather static, traditional, physical
keyboard.

The dimensions and weight of the new MBP are a huge step forward, indeed. But
one can live without it, as 3.02 pounds (1.37kg) is not THAT much of a
difference, as compared to 3.48 pounds (1.58kg). I mean yes, you notice the
thinness and lightness of the new MBP, no question about that. But believe me,
it's not even close to the previous jump (which I won't Google now).

Now for the controversial part: at most 16GB of RAM for the new MBP, really
Apple? It almost sounds like a joke. And the CPU, well, I guess Apple is not
the one to blame here, since Intel probably is the culprit here, but there
really is pretty much no noticeable improvement over the previous generation
AT ALL.

USB-C? Yeah, I like it. Don't have any devices that support it, but I can
understand that it is the future. Really. But how on earth does Apple think
that it is a good idea to just not have Magsafe anymore?! If there is one
thing that even Apple haters have considered amazing, it is Magsafe. Now it's
gone, and it doesn't look like it's coming back. This makes me sad, as I don't
think there is going to be something similar anytime soon...

Now listen Apple. There is this company that you've been ahead of for many
years. Yeah, I'm taking about Microsoft. They are BACK. And as much as I
dislike their OS, they are improving their hardware AND software much, much
faster than you are. If I was you, I would start to at least TRY to be a bit
more revolutionary again. Because in 5 years from now, people might find your
hardware a scam, and your software not that good anymore.

Sincerely, a software engineer that likes his MacOS and MBP.

------
ctvo
The 13" non touchbar version is the MacBook Air I've always wanted: thin,
light, great screen and 16gb of ram. I bought one and couldn't be happier.
They're priced more reasonably than the touchbar versions too.

------
shiny
Man, that keyboard sounds really bad. Can anyone with the new MBP confirm it's
as noisy as that video makes it sound, even after you adapt to it? As a Vim
user, a noisy keyboard scares the hell out of me.

------
dlee12
any links to a cheap 2015 MBP?

~~~
tim333
Amazon?

------
debt
Apple is clearly gearing up to sunset the MacBooks. You can be in denial about
it, but it's inevitable.

The quality has been declining for some time because engineers are being
usurped for bigger, money-making endeavors.

