
Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today - janober
https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/15/europe-mostly-ends-mobile-roaming-fees-from-today
======
endijs
This idea was good. But in reality what happened in Latvia was very simple and
expected move by telcos - all three of them raised prices for all
subscriptions by about 3€-4€ monthly (which is ~30% increase). Yes, now you
can feel better while traveling, however everyone now pays extra every single
month. For some situation now is better, while others pay for it even if they
do not need such freedom. Those who are in first category are happy, others
not so much.

Edited: It's interesting to see how comment which states facts, can get
upvoted and downvoted this much. Sometimes voting in HN does not make any
sense (to me). I understand that upvote is "thanks for letting us know those
facts". What are downvotes representing? That I should not write at all, that
price increase for all 3 telcos is fine, that everyone should be happy?
Rhetorical question.

~~~
czr80
This doesn't really make sense - what was stopping them from raising prices
before, if people are really willing to pay 3-4 EUR more?

~~~
Certhas
It's good timing because it will have the customers "blaming Europe" for the
cost increase rather than the Telcos.

------
rekshaw
A lot of people complaining here. I am based in Luxembourg currently, and went
to London last week. The peace of mind of landing in a foreign city and being
able to use your phone as if at home truly is incredible. I could really feel
the barriers to traveling fading. (Ironic that it was London, I know). BTW, my
Luxembourghish telco actually aligned with the EU directive ahead of time
(June 1st).

~~~
dheera
Agreed. I now use Google Fi (free roaming in 150 countries) but that didn't
use to exist.

When I was doing an internship in Switzerland about 9 years ago I often
travelled to nearby countries on weekends and internet access was always a
problem. Free Wi-Fi was largely nonexistent back then, and roaming charges
were upwards of USD15 per _megabyte_ (yes, _mega_ ). Simply trying to use
Google Maps to get to a hostel might cost more than the cost of staying at the
hostel. And being on a prepaid plan, there was always the risk of accidentally
clicking on an ad and burning up all of the quota that I purchased, leaving me
stranded without internet access.

I relied mostly on printed paper maps that summer.

I always thought it made zero sense in a part of the world where crossing
country borders could be an everyday occurrence especially if you live close
to a border.

I also thought it made absolutely zero sense that the various Oranges and
various T-Mobiles of different countries don't have free roaming plans with
each other. Why didn't Orange UK, Orange France, Orange Switzerland, Orange
Egypt, Orange Romania, etc. work together to give free calls and free internet
access on each others' networks, routing everything over IP? They could have
won over a bunch of business customers by doing that and killed some
competitors.

~~~
acchow
> Why didn't Orange UK, Orange France, Orange Switzerland, Orange Egypt,
> Orange Romania, etc. work together to give free calls and free internet
> access on each others' networks

Because they made boatloads of profit from charging their customers for
roaming.

~~~
dheera
Sure, but they could instead sweep all the customers away from their
competition since the same parent company has a foot in multiple countries.
They could have even undercut business from Skype by offering almost-free
roaming.

Also, if roaming charges are prohibitively expensive, people just stop using
roaming. If they are at least reasonable, they will profit significantly more
because people will actually use it. At $15/MB I just shut my phone off.
They're not making any money from me.

~~~
mschuster91
> At $15/MB I just shut my phone off. They're not making any money from me.

They didn't need you. Their real customers back at the time were businessmen
with next-to-unlimited travel funds.

These days it has changed because especially young people demand being able to
Instagram/Snapchat their travels from anywhere... but still data in Germany is
horribly expensive.

------
eXpl0it3r
Here in Switzerland we have some of the highest mobile prices ($30+) [1], yet
our mobile providers will not remove the fee like the rest or Europe. Our
politician try to enforce every single new EU-law, but when there's once
something that would benefit the people, they come up with many excuses why
this couldn't be applied and how Switzerland isn't part of the EU and doesn't
have to follow through...

[1]
[https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/mobile/subscription-t...](https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/mobile/subscription-
tariffs.html)

~~~
geoka9
Amazing, $30 is considered high for a mobile plan. In Canada it's the price of
the lowest end plan from the lowest end provider. A plan from a big name
provider will be at least $60 with capped data.

~~~
eXpl0it3r
Is that USD or CAD?

$30 is also among the lower prices you have to pay for a plan in Switzerland.
But it's kind of hard to define, since there many variables (data speed, data
cap, phone call prices, coverage, etc).

Most people I know are running on $60 to $100 plans.

I'm looking forward to when my company is paying my mobile bill.

------
Shalle135
Moving more freely in EU why are people against that? Sure LT, LV, Poland,
Romania etc probably got a slight raise. At the same time these countries are
heavily subsidized by the rest of the countries already. What they also have
is alot of people working abroad… so then they are allowed to surf with their
cheap plans in not so cheap countries.

I can also note that this law has resulted in alot more unlimited plans. I
myself have just gotten one which includes 30gb of roaming. Is it cheaper than
before? Hell no. Do I have to care about how much I surf, when or where? Not
anymore - and freedom is worth the extra €20.

~~~
tdeck
As an American I was shocked at how cheap cell phone plans already are in
Europe. You can get a great 4GB data SIM for like 10 euros, where it would
easily be several times that in the US. My Verizon unlimited plan is $86/month
per person, and even that is a special thing that's grandfathered in.

~~~
untog
It's not so bad if you shop around. T-Mobile has a PAYG SIM card that is
$30/month for 5GB of data, unlimited texts and 100 minutes of calls.

I suspect part of the difference in price is due to geography - the US has
vast, vast areas of unpopulated land that people still want to receive cell
coverage in. Europe has less of that. It would be interesting to see the
customer response to a new US network that I'd cheaper but only covers major
metro areas.

~~~
asmosoinio
USA has twice the population density of Finland, for which Sami_Lehtinen
quotes prices in the sibling comment.

So it's not that, or not just that at least.

------
_miroz
I'm wondering why the regulation was necessary and why the free market forces
didn't bring the prices or roaming down? What are the forces in telecom
industry that kept the prices so high (assuming that the prices were higher
then necessary)?

~~~
gmac
Because it's a confusopoly[1] and roaming charges (like data overage charges)
weren't part of the headline offer, which was generally _UNLIMITED calls and
texts and a FREE phone when you pay £X per month_.

Same as 'free' banking in the UK, which is in reality heavily cross-subsidised
by the poorest customers paying overdraft penalties.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusopoly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusopoly)

~~~
mamon
Roaming is relatively niche, but very expensive product, compared to other
telecommunication services, so in my opinion it was fair to charge additional
fee for that.

Now that EU regulation is in place mobile operators are no longer allowed to
charge the additional cost to people actually using roaming, they have to
spread it across all their customers. So, net effect will be: poor people who
do not use roaming (e.g. because they cannot afford vacations abroad) will pay
for the convenience of middle and higher class people who travel a lot.

~~~
patrickk
> So, net effect will be: poor people who do not use roaming (e.g. because
> they cannot afford vacations abroad) will pay for the convenience of middle
> and higher class people who travel a lot.

You'd have to be fairly destitute to not be able to afford to travel within
Europe[1]. For example, even people on social welfare in the UK and Ireland
can afford cheap sun holidays to Spain or wherever.

[1] [https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/cheap-flight-
destinations](https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/cheap-flight-destinations)

~~~
ptaipale
However, people on social welfare in Spain hardly can afford a cheap... (ok
not sun) holidays in UK and Ireland.

Not to mention Latvia or Bulgaria.

------
mstade
This is great, now I can ditch my UK Three SIM that I've had for years simply
because they implemented a "feel at home" kind of policy long ago, where
roaming within the EU is free. There was always a data limit, and you can't
tether your phone to your laptop which was annoying, but it's been great for
me who's been travelling in the EU frequently. Now I can drop that extra
£30/month cost and don't have to carry extra SIMs. I love it.

~~~
Angostura
As far as I know, the data limit is whatever your tariff normally gives you -
no more, no less. I wouldn't be surprised if the other carriers have a no-
tethering-while-roaming rule too.

~~~
nikon
EE are good with tethering and roaming speeds.

------
unsigner
Result around here: roaming disappeared from all mobile plans except for the
most expensive ones, which got nudged a few euros up.

The frequent travellers (presumably wealthier) get subsidized by the
infrequent travellers (presumably less wealthier).

~~~
dx034
Infrequent travelers will also profit. If you're from Northern Europe going to
Spain for vacation you now don't have to change money, don't have any border
checks and can use your phone like at home. Using Facebook, Instagram & Co on
holiday is important to many and will make people feel more "at home" in
another EU country.

This was never supposed to save money, it was to bring the EU closer together
and make borders disappear further.

Business travelers had fees paid by their employer anyway, not that much
changed for them.

------
Markoff
this is all nice and dandy but it's still only half job, since this doesn't
mean there are no charges for international calls

so yes receiving calls or using internet will be same as home, you still have
to watch what number you are calling, if it's from country of your carrier or
different

please correct me if I am wrong

EDIT: so I was right, now it's even more insane than before:

For example: If you have a Belgian card and you travel to France and call
either a hotel in France, back home to Belgium, or to any other country in the
EU and the EEA, you are roaming (refer to legal text on the regulation on
roaming) , and you will pay Belgian internal domestic prices (refer to legal
text).

However, if a Belgian SIM card holder calls from Belgium to Spain, she/he will
pay the international tariff. Calls from home to another EU country are not
roaming and are not regulated.

source: [https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-
market/en/faq/frequently...](https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-
market/en/faq/frequently-asked-questions-roam-home)

TLDR: there are no fees for international calls while you are in roaming, but
when you return back home enjoy fees for international calls, using your SIM
in foreign network is cheaper than using it in your own network at home

------
danmaz74
It was about time; it will also help a lot with short-term mobility around the
EU.

------
billpg
Cool, just as Brexit looks to be falling apart under its own incompetence.

~~~
stuaxo
Whether this gets reversed after Brexit remains to be seem. Given mobile
phones behaviour it seems likely.

------
simion314
I am wondering how much extra cost the operators for a roaming call, in both
case A where both phones are on same operator and in second case where second
person is on a second operator.

~~~
dx034
I'd guess that there's no extra cost for an operator like Vodafone if they
have a roaming client using data. Mobile data will not go back to the home
country and peering costs are similar throughout Europe. Phone calls have to
be routed to the home country but that's not a significant cost item.

------
timwaagh
well that's nice. at least i can call from belgium now when i will be there on
saturaday. however if it is true that all the phone bills go up now then it is
just a policy that lets poor workers subsidize rich travellers. that is an
ethical problem. however we need to move on with european integration. the
current system allows far too many loopholes for rich tax avoiders (who mostly
move their money where tax is low) so any integration is a good one.

------
k-mcgrady
From reading this thread it seems that telecoms companies and the EU need to
make it much more clear what is actually happening. Half the people commenting
here have one experience and the other half have the complete opposite. It's
probably difficult to know how this will all shake out for a couple of years
considering most of us are locked into multi-year contracts.

------
WillyOnWheels
Prepaid wireless plans in America are marketed as being cheaper than long term
contracts. San Francisco tacks on a 23 percent fee to prepaid wireless plans.

[http://www.prepaidphonenews.com/2016/03/california-boe-
relea...](http://www.prepaidphonenews.com/2016/03/california-boe-releases-new-
prepaid.html)

~~~
dx034
You should move to a more densely populated country ;)

------
rdl
What is the correct European SIM to buy for data/voice/etc. (prepaid)?
Presumably best to get one from a country you don't actually visit much, so
you're always roaming, and thus don't pay the home to foreign number charges?

~~~
panzer_wyrm
Uk three. Uk is the only sane (at least on this topic) country left in the EU
in which you could buy a sim card without photo id.

~~~
Strom
This seems incorrect. I've traveled around in EU and haven't seen a single ID
check for SIMs yet. Where is this happening? In my home country of Estonia we
even have SIMs being given away for free on the streets as advertisement.

~~~
rdl
Germany (O2) had an obnoxious check. The dude bitched at me because I had a
copy of my passport "saved in the cloud" (it was in 1Password local on my
phone; given that the US, RU, CN, JP, UA, MY etc governments all have copies
of my passport already, it's a whole lot less sensitive than anything else I
have in a local-only encrypted database on my phone. It took about 30m to go
through the process.

------
codecamper
I wonder if prepay will work with same rates while roaming. I'm in Italy now
with 20GB of data from TIM... I'd like to continue using it in Slovenia, but
somehow I'm doubting this will work.

------
bajsejohannes
The article lists the 28 EU countries, but note that this is true for the
countries of the European Economic Area too: Iceland, Liechtenstein and
Norway.

------
bane
Does anybody know what this might mean for Phi users?

------
matteuan
Unfortunately, there is still one important limitation: we will keep the fees
for the traffic from our home countries.

~~~
JoeCamel
No, calling foreign numbers costs the same in both your country and abroad.
And it's usually more expensive on mobile networks, but that doesn't have
anything to do with roaming.

~~~
matteuan
I misunderstood, I read things again and you are right.

~~~
martinald
This isn't correct - these regulations only apply when roaming. In your home
network the operator can charge what it likes for intra-EU calls.

------
WillyOnWheels
for people like me who don't understand how the fees work

[http://prepaid-data-sim-card.wikia.com/wiki/European_Union](http://prepaid-
data-sim-card.wikia.com/wiki/European_Union)

------
throwaway-1209
As a TMobile customer in the US, tongue in cheek question: what's a "roaming
fee"? It's kinda cool when your phone just works worldwide. That's the way it
ought to be, imo.

------
Radim
Ah! Central regulations brought us inefficient telco monopolies and cartels.

Surely some more central regulations will remedy the situation! "To each
according to his needs." What could possibly go wrong?

~~~
Brakenshire
Well, the reason why there is so much telco competition in Europe, and the
prices are so low, is that the EU set common standards for mobile phone
protocols from the start. Each company cannot keep its customers from going to
the competition, I have been able to buy one phone which works with every
company everywhere in the continent for decades. Everyone I know buys a phone
(often second hand) then moves from one company to another to get the best
deal. The problem with the US is not regulation, it is bad regulation.

------
mrweasel
Yeah, the telcos have already found a way out. They simply remove EU roaming
from their standard subscriptions and it now becomes an add-on.

So if you want to use your phone in a different country during the holidays,
you'll need an EU roaming subscription.

The politicians once again failed to be sufficient precise in formulating a
law that would produce the decided result. They should have added a clause
that state that all subscriptions are to cover the entire EU.

~~~
imartin2k
You are probably way too negative. Yeah, some telcos are looking for ways
around it, and some plans will become a bit more expensive, temporarily.
However, there is healthy competetion in most European telecoms markets. So it
is very likely that over the mid term, competition will push prices down.

Why is it so damn hard to be happy about a giant step forward, just because it
doesn't happen in the most perfect way? (what does?!).

~~~
mrweasel
Competition in the Danish market isn't actually health. It's good for the
consumers, but the providers are running on extremely low margins compared to
pretty much anywhere else.

It's basically the world's toughest market for mobile telephony.

~~~
dtech
This sounds exactly what the free market is always sold on: lowest prices for
consumers, only the most effective businesses stay afloat...

~~~
mrweasel
True, but the same free market allowed the phone companies to charge
exorbitant prices for EU roaming.

Telenor and Telia wanted to merge in Denmark last year, but wasn't allowed to,
because it would hurt customers, so the free market isn't really in play
anymore.

------
blibble
I never saw why this interference in the free market was needed when it was
making progress, and in some circumstances already provided solutions to the
problem

on Three I've had free roaming for years, at no additional cost, across the EU
and a good chunk of the rest of the world

[http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home](http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home)

~~~
tskaiser
iirc 3 introduced this service when it was announced that these regulations
were underway.

~~~
hav
Correct. It's difficult to see if that was causation though, as Three had
already had "Feel at home" in 2013 when discussions started in the EU about
this legislation.

~~~
vidarh
The first steps towards this happened in 2005, with the first regulations
passed in 2007. 2013 is just the last tightening after the providers once
again dragged their feet enough to finally get the Commission to accept they
wouldn't do it voluntarily.

~~~
hav
Ah, my bad! I was under the wrong impression then. Thanks for informing. :)

------
halloij
So the cost incurred will be passed on to everyone in higher fees.

eg people who never "roam" are going to be subsidising those people that do.

A negative move spun as a positive... clever EU, clever.

~~~
glebm
Roaming costs are price gouging, the associated costs of providing roaming are
nowhere near.

~~~
ptaipale
However, now EU regulates the price to consumers to be lower than the
wholesale price of roaming charges between operators. That is a failure. They
should regulate the wholesale price.

In practice: I pay 20 € per month for unlimited mobile data. If I go to Italy
and use my subscription there, I still pay 20 € per month for unlimited mobile
data, but my operator has to pay 7 € per gigabyte to the Italian roaming
partner.

Because there are more people traveling from north EU to south EU than vice
versa, and competition of mobile operators works much better in northern EU,
this is practically a monetary transfer to support the economies of southern
Europe. And then there's the possibility that an Italian person acquires a SIM
from my operator, because local Italian ones don't sell subscriptions with
unlimited mobile data...

My operator has to counter this by a price hike and/or disabling of roaming.

~~~
JoeCamel
You should check if your unlimited plan applies to roaming. I have a unlimited
data plan in Croatia, but in roaming it's limited to 10 GB.

~~~
ptaipale
EU was planning to explicitly regulate against such caps. If you provide
unlimited data in your local operator's network, having caps when roaming
would be in breach of this regulation.

Has that changed?

~~~
tonfa
Yes, the rule is based on how much you pay for your unlimited plan compared to
wholesale regulated rates.

(tho they plan to lower the regulated rates over time)

