

Breaking up with America - edward
http://www.earth.li/~noodles/blog/2014/09/breaking-up-with-america.html

======
kelukelugames
Rough.

I know a handful of talented developers stuck at a large company because of
visa issues. They are too afraid to look for a better job because of
immigration.

~~~
billbrown
Every time I encounter the way our immigration policies treat various co-
workers of mine, I'm ashamed and scandalized.

They are the last people to be a "drain on our economy" and they're
effectively chained to their jobs, which seems so archaic.

~~~
owenmarshall
Reserve some blame for your company: the reason H-1B programs are so widely
abused is because industry can't give up cheap labor.

~~~
zabraxias
That's an oversimplification since the valley is the leading proponent of
immigration reform (yes since the companies there will get better access to
foreign workers) but every other developed nation seems to have a more
sensible policy like allowing "work status" and not tying it to a specific
company. Green cards effectively do that but unless you're Bieber or can
afford the $1M investment visa you don't get one on day 1.

~~~
syntern
Green card is not a work permit, it is a residency status. People focus on the
work part, but with choosing the green card, one is choosing between the US
and the rest of the world for a very long time.

First of all, it requires you to reside in the US, permanently (hence the
official name). You don't move home for longer periods (e.g. years), as
getting back in the US is not automatic. I understand that the US sees
entering in the US as privilege, but these people usually help the US economy,
and not burden it, so there is that.

Second, it really limits your options. Suppose you decide to go outside of the
US in just a few years after the green card, giving it up, and suddenly, for
the rest of your life, whenever you enter in the US, you need to tell you
life's story to the immigration officer and why you have applied for
immigration status and what happened with it.

And if you have connections, properties or investments in Europe, you will be
always in limbo whether the European bank will decline business with you based
on your US tax status.

Going for a green card is a no-brainer for everyone who is going for US
citizenship. Everyone else, take a better look on it, before you go for it.

~~~
CodeMage
> _Going for a green card is a no-brainer for everyone who is going for US
> citizenship. Everyone else, take a better look on it, before you go for it._

So what's the alternative? I'm asking out of honest curiosity, because H-1B
seems to have at least two serious drawbacks: 1) if you want to switch jobs,
you have to go through the lottery again (as far as I understand), and 2) your
dependents are on H-4 visa, which means that they aren't allowed to get a job
(except as a volunteer).

~~~
abraham_s
1) Is not true. If you change jobs you don't have to go through the lottery
again. It is just paperwork. 2) Is true and it is a big issue. It is sad to
see educated spouses wasting their time here in the US

------
jrmg
If you were born in Northern Ireland, you are eligible to apply for the
Diversity Visa lottery, if you want to try that route. 'Winning' nets you a
green card (yes, this is a real thing; the US immigration system is crazy).
There's a low chance of success - looks like 1.25-2% for Europeans, according
to Wikipedia.

[https://www.dvlottery.state.gov](https://www.dvlottery.state.gov)
[http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/dive...](http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/diversity-
visa/entry.html)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa)

Britons born in other parts of the UK are not eligible.

The next lottery takes place next year, applications can be made from October.
The only qualifications needed, other than nationality, are a high school
education and two years work experience
([http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/dive...](http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/diversity-
visa/if-you-are-selected/confirm-your-qualifications.html)).

------
chishaku
Question: How do "free market" proponents support the free flow of (financial)
capital across borders but not the free flow of (human) capital across
borders?

I appreciate any insight/references regarding this topic.

EDIT: I know this is a loaded question but I think it hits to the heart of
this immigration issue. I trust there are many smart (and civil) members of
this community from across the politecon spectrum who could provide more
insight on this or related debates.

~~~
x1798DE
What free market proponents are in favor of free trade but against free
immigration? In my experience part of the libertarian ethos is about opening
up immigration.

The only way I can imagine a free-market proponent who is in favor of free
trade holding consistent beliefs which are also against immigration is if they
are for immigration from a trade perspective, but against it on some other
grounds such as national defense or national identity. You can imagine that
the justification for at least the national defense reasoning is that if you
let in a lot of people, you'll end up allowing some sort of fifth column or
something to develop in the heart of the nation. Frankly, I don't buy _any_ of
the objections I've seen to basically unlimited immigration, but there are at
least some that are intellectually consistent with a free-market position.

You can find a laundry list of anti-immigration positions (many of which are
at least intellectually consistent with a free market philosophy), alongside
their specific refutations over at
[http://openborders.info](http://openborders.info)

~~~
chishaku
Thanks, [http://openborders.info](http://openborders.info) looks like a great
starting point.

------
SeoxyS
You could always try for the O-1 visa. When everything else failed me, that's
the route I went. I've now obtained an O-1 twice. It costs more, and the
requirements are more stringent; but if you are able to get it, it's extremely
efficient. The entire process only takes ~a month.

~~~
timtamboy63
Hey! I'm actually going down this route as well. I'd love more information and
maybe chat if you have a few minutes. Any chance you could shoot me an email?
I'm chintan@capp.io.

~~~
randunel
Guys, don't go private. Do request and share in the comments please :)

------
juggling-engine
I'm in the exact same situation. I wasn't selected for the H1-B lottery twice
in a row, and have to leave after seven years in the US. Oh well, I hear
Vancouver is nice :)

~~~
CodeMage
Are H-1B extensions also subject to lottery?

~~~
potatolicious
No, but there is a 6-year limit to being under the H-1B status.

~~~
tricolon
Can't it be extended for a year at a time as long as a permanent residency
application is pending?

~~~
juggling-engine
I think so, but you can't apply for permanent residence if you came to the US
to study. You have to first transition to a diffenrent visa status, usually
H1-B. However if, for example, the cap has been full since you graduated
college...

------
mathattack
Why not an L1 if you have a job with the same company? Seems relatively easy.

------
drivingmenuts
Man, I would _love_ to work in some other country than the US, but getting
approval to work elsewhere is apparently harder than getting approval for
people elsewhere to get approval to work here.

------
pm90
Why isn't the author getting another L-1 Visa? Since his company has a base in
SF and Belfast, that should be possible, right?

~~~
hlieberman
L-1 visas are non-immigrant visas, and they require certain periods of absence
from America in order to renew them, as well as lengths of employment at the
company before you are eligible.

------
lordbusiness
I'm not sure this is particularly interesting for Hacker News?

Not trying to troll, and I apologize if I'm way off the mark on this. I don't
intend to cause offence.

~~~
tehwalrus
Hi! thanks for contributing to Hacker News.

If you don't think an article is HN-material, please use the "flag" link on
the post, rather than posting a comment to that effect. You may not see the
flag link if you don't have a high enough Karma score yet.

Personally, I've seen advanced discussion on US visas on here before, and I
would assume that this would be of interest to many in this community.

~~~
lordbusiness
Thank you for the welcome. :-)

It's not really an advanced discussion or even jumping off point. It's just
one person saying they don't live in the US anymore.

And yah, I don't have enough karma. Though it appears I lost a point for
positing my original comment. :-) C'est la vie.

~~~
artmageddon
It's not an 'advanced discussion' in terms of technology but we have to face
the fact that there are many people who work here in the States and _want_ to
work in the states that get hampered by immigration rules. My girlfriend is
working on her PhD in CS and has faced huge uphill battles to get into for
internships simply because of where she's from. She just wants to work on
tech, but the hurdles she has to go through are ridiculous compared to what
citizens or even immigrants from other countries have to face.

