
Vanishing Violence - sctb
https://projects.sfchronicle.com/2019/vanishing-violence/
======
kenneth
There is still way too much crime in California and in the Bay Area in
particular. Perhaps violent crime from juveniles is down; but my observation
as a decade-long SF resident is that crime overall is certainly not getting
better, and it certainly seems to be getting worse. Muggings, break-ins,
theft, etc. are absolutely rampant. The authorities couldn't give two shits
about preventing, investigating, or prosecuting it.

Some anecdotes:

I've personally been mugged at gunpoint in Oakland. I luckily managed to hold
on to my cellphone and called 911 right away. The police showed up right away,
but only cared to take a statement and left without going after the
perpetrators, or even giving us a ride to somewhere safe.

The only other time I called 911 because a woman collapsed on the street in
front of me. She was bleeding from the head and making a scary-looking pool of
blood. It took 45min for an ambulance to show up, in downtown San Francisco,
around noon on a weekend day (no traffic).

The authorities are entirely useless and unreliable.

It's almost as if the article is equating less crime being prosecuted as less
crime existing. There's a big issue with that.

I feel like we need much tougher police that actually prevents and prosecutes
all types of crime, including rampant petty theft, car break-ins, muggings,
shootings (which are common), harassment by deranged drug-addicts all over the
streets, etc. etc.

~~~
bjourne
> It's almost as if the article is equating less crime being prosecuted as
> less crime existing. There's a big issue with that.

No, doing that would be silly. Criminologists look at both prosecuted crime,
crime reported in victim surveys, number of arrests and incarcerations and a
whole host of other metrics before drawing conclusions. The good news (which
no one ever believes :)) is that they _all_ point in the same direction. See
this fact sheet f.e
[https://www.ncjrs.gov/ovc_archives/ncvrw/2017/images/en_artw...](https://www.ncjrs.gov/ovc_archives/ncvrw/2017/images/en_artwork/Fact_Sheets/2017NCVRW_CrimeTrends_508.pdf)

~~~
Judgmentality
I admittedly have not looked at the data in detail and maybe it's the cynic in
me, but how much of that decrease in crime can be attributed to manipulating
the data?

For instance, in San Francisco, car breakins have been reclassified as a
misdemeanor. And obviously this is anecdotal, but residents are so blasé
towards the complete fucking shitshow that is SFPD (I actually rewrote that
into something much gentler) that they don't even bother calling the police or
reporting crimes.

If it's gotten so bad that people don't even report crimes, and police make it
difficult to report crimes (there are many stories about this - yes it's
anecdotal), how can we expect the statistics to mean anything?

The only thing I know for certain is I've been assaulted by homeless people
more than once, including one who pushed me into traffic. After the first few
times calling the police and having nobody show up for 30+ minutes I just
stopped bothering.

I've also seen someone rob a store while a cop was stationed at the entrance
of the store for the sole purpose of stopping theft - the cop _literally_
shrugged and said "what am I gonna do, chase after him?"

Obviously I'm biased based on my experiences and I'm referring to the
microcosm that is SF, but I absolutely unequivocally do not trust anything
that comes from the SFPD. And I see no reason to trust other police
departments either.

For something a little less anecdotal, here's an interesting podcast that
basically says once cops started tracking crime they just stopped reporting
it. Goodhart's Law in action.

[https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/127-the-crime-
machine-...](https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/127-the-crime-machine-
part-i)

~~~
matt4077
Just look at homicides. A dead body is somewhat impossible to hide from the
statistics. Then, overlay that data with any other category of crime. Here's a
google image search:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=murder+assault+rates&rls=en&...](https://www.google.com/search?q=murder+assault+rates&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP8qbcppThAhUPyFkKHZT-B2sQ_AUIDygC&biw=1287&bih=826#imgrc=rSbHge7DGraf0M):

What you will see is broad agreements of the trends, often including
fluctuation in shorter terms.

Your theory would thus require (a) some evidence that the police is now
somehow hiding murders, or (b) that murders fell but other crimes (even
attempted murder) were somehow exempt from the trend and the police in almost
any jurisdiction managed to underreport all other crimes with almost perfect
accuracy to reproduce the trend in murders.

The comparisons across jurisdictions is interesting by itself: falling levels
of violent crimes have been observed across a broad swath across North
America, Europe, and beyond. It's somewhat unlikely that all these unrelated
police forces somehow simultaneously decided to and succeeded in embarking on
a corrupt campaign to falsify statistics.

If anything, the prevailing winds should have led to _more_ crime being
reported. Something like rape or assault tend to be taken more seriously these
days. In cases such as Spain, one would also expect today's statistics to be
more accurate than they were in the 70s, when it still was a fascist
dictatorship interested in projecting an image of stability and safety.

~~~
Judgmentality
> Just look at homicides. A dead body is somewhat impossible to hide from the
> statistics.

Actually it's been posited before that Japan reclassifies murders as suicides
in order to skew the data, and some believe other countries are doing this as
well. There is a correlation between countries with low murder rates and high
suicide rates.

[http://freakonomics.com/2009/10/29/fewer-murders-more-
suicid...](http://freakonomics.com/2009/10/29/fewer-murders-more-suicide/)

~~~
Pfhreak
Is that what you believe is happening in the parent post?

~~~
Judgmentality
I think it's one of many confounding factors that detracts from the ultimate
conclusion "violent crime is down." As others have pointed out better trauma
response could also be a factor in this trend.

In fact, the suicide rate in the US is the highest it's been in decades.

[https://psmag.com/news/the-suicide-rate-is-at-its-highest-
in...](https://psmag.com/news/the-suicide-rate-is-at-its-highest-in-a-half-
century)

I know at least one instance where there was a lot of controversy over the
police ruling it a suicide and stopped the investigation there. Not everybody
in the victim's family agreed but they decided not to challenge the police.

------
jayess
The peak in the late 80s seems to correlate well with the global phaseout of
leaded gasoline. In the US, the phaseout began in the mid 70s and leaded
gasoline was completely banned by 1996.

> A 1994 study had indicated that the concentration of lead in the blood of
> the U.S. population had dropped 78% from 1976 to 1991.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#Controversy_and...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#Controversy_and_phase-
out)

~~~
bluedino
Leaded gas was in use since the 20's or 30's. Crime/Murders didn't to spike up
until 1965. Murders started going down around 1994 or so. And then in the late
2000's, many cities have started to see it go back up.

I would wager the reasons for the increase in the late 60's is similar to the
recent rise, and that it has nothing to do with lead.

~~~
jahewson
Leaded gasoline was for many years a premium product, patented and produced
initially by a single manufacturer. Production really takes off after WWII (3x
the amount before the war). Assuming a child takes 20 years to grow up then
1945 + 20 = 1965. That's exactly when we start seeing a sizable jump in crime.
Furthermore, lead use increases until a peak around 1970 with violent crime
peaking around 1990, 20 years later. In other words, the pattern of violent
crime follows the pattern of lead usage +20 years, including a small dip in
lead use in the early 1960s which corresponds to a small dip in violent crime
in the early 1980s. This isn't just about the start - their entire histories
are remarkably correlated.

------
DoubleCribble
How much of the precipitous drop in SF juvenile crime is simply because there
are fewer juveniles in the city? SF used to have a large middle class
population that has largely vanished with the rise in the cost of housing
combined with a reduction in the number of kids per household. While once
pretty common, those big families with 4-5 kids are as rare as 4 leaf clovers
these days.

~~~
jahewson
The arrest rates at least are given _per 10,000 juveniles_ , not as an
absolute number, for exactly the reason you mention. Some of the other numbers
aren't adjusted though.

~~~
toomanybeersies
I think that GP's question still stands though. Has the reduction in density
of juveniles (either per capita or per square mile) had an effect on juvenile
crime?

~~~
DoubleCribble
It seems to me like it would be harder for many juveniles to get into trouble
if there just aren't that many other juveniles around. It's hard to form a
gang if there's nobody else around to join.

------
harmful_stereo
I wouldn't limit it to smartphones, or the elimination of physical education,
or the mainstreaming of online couch potatoing, or any other part of that. But
overall, and there is more than one reason, domestic existence has become
nearly universally white collar in the way time is spent. Desperate people can
resort to using social media instead of taking things into the streets. And if
you do go outside, you're in a much smaller minority, and the cops don't have
to contend with a whole generation that will be there between you and them.
That raises the encounter rate. In fact it's only in extremely wealthy
extremely poor neighborhoods that i see children playing outside nowadays.
That exacerbates the psychological strain on poor communities, especially
black, because of the difference in how and where black communities are
located versus the methodology of Hispanic and overseas immigrant population
distribution. I think this is a reflection of the shift. Humans have become
housepets to a society-changing extent. And housing geography has changed to a
new phase of post-suburban internal migration. Police still exist to keep poor
people from troubling the rich, but now the distances and physical barriers
are greater and have systems built on top of them by the declines in
population growth.

------
bjourne
The trend is global and not limited to the US. For example, violent crime has
dropped dramatically in Sweden since the mid 90s. Of course you would never
believe that by only reading the headlines!

One of the causes pointed out by criminologists is the decrease in alcohol
consumption. Among the general population it has decreased slightly, but
enormously among youths. For example, the average alcohol consumption in
liters per year for 16 year old boys has decreased from 7.4 l in 2004 to 3.0 l
in 2018.

When young males aren't drinking there are much fewer incidents of unnecessary
violence. Less of these "misunderstandings" in nightclubs and pubs that always
caused fights in the decades prior. RE: Clearly, people high on cannabis
doesn't get nearly as violent as some people get when they are drunk. However,
the Swedish statistics doesn't indicate that young people are switching from
alcohol to cannabis. Cannabis use remains fairly low as it has always been.
The kids are just partying less it seems.

~~~
WillPostForFood
This chart suggest Rapes/Sexual assaults are way up, Assaults are up,
Murder/Robbery are the same or up a tiny bit. The only number in decline from
the 90s looks like burglary.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#/media/File:Nu...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#/media/File:Number_of_crimes_reported_per_100,000_population_in_Sweden,_1993-2013.svg)

And if you go back earlier than the 90s, crime looks like it has broadly
gotten much worse:

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Sweden-c...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Sweden-
crime-1976-2016-robbery-sex-murder.svg)

~~~
bjourne
First of, we're discussing _violent_ crime here. Rape and/or sexual assault is
often non-violent and hence a different type of crime.

Second, Wikipedia is an incredibly unreliable source for anything
controversial and since the Orange Man decided make an example of the country
("Last night in Sweden..."), it's crime statistics became incredibly
controversial!

It is correct that the number of _reported_ crimes has increased, which is not
the same thing as an increase in the actual crime rate. If we instead look at
homicide and manslaughter (dödligt våld) per 100 000 inhabitants, it paints a
different picture:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/5lr3u6/mord_per_cap...](https://www.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/5lr3u6/mord_per_capita_per_%C3%A5r_i_sverige/)

Note that the y-axis begins at 0.5 so it looks like the increase and decrease
was larger than it was.

We can also look at victim surveys. The number of people who claims to have
been the victim of violent crime:

[https://www.bra.se/images/18.221265bc145ae05f27a1831/1400769...](https://www.bra.se/images/18.221265bc145ae05f27a1831/1400769979758/BU2014-Andel-
utsatta-f%C3%B6r-n%C3%A5got-v%C3%A5ld.png)

Blue line is for young people 16+, purple line for the adult population
(16-79) and green line also for the adult population (16-84). In reality,
violent crime has decreased much more than what those graphs indicates. The
reason is that the threshold for what constitutes violent "crime" has lowered.
For example, 30 years ago someone who "lost a streetfight" likely wouldn't
have considered himself a victim, nor would a woman who was slapped by her
husband. But today they would because attitudes change. Therefore, counter-
intuitively, the number of crime reports increases as crime decreases.

------
scythe
>As he pulled the trigger, Monroe said, he flashed on an image of his
alcoholic father beating his mother.

Well, I think I found a possible explanation. Domestic violence has always
been shameful, but it only became unacceptable with the rise of second-wave
feminism. The first generation of kids raised under the new rules hit
adolescence in... you guessed it, the late '90s. Unlike other trends, this one
was transnational.

------
Nition
Same where I am, in New Zealand[1]. Youth crime starts to drop off rapidly
after 2007.

[1]
[https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/yo...](https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/youth-
prosecution-statistics-data-highlights-2017.pdf)

~~~
youraimanager
I can't quite understand the difference here between the crime classes.
Burglary (the victim is absent) and robbery (the victim is present) are
somehow separate from theft?

~~~
HarryHirsch
Theft is taking off with something that is in plain view. Burglary includes
breaking in, and robbery involves violent force. Lawgivers the world over
especially detest violence, so no surprise that the latter two traditionally
attract stiffer penalties.

~~~
derefr
"Cat burglary" isn't a violent crime, though.

------
alanh
Working in San Francisco and living in Oakland, I have to imagine that to a
significant degree, it is not (just) that there is less crime, but that there
are fewer arrests. I see crime every day — literally every day. My co-workers
have been sent to the hospital by random street violence. I have not heard of
any resulting arrests.

~~~
baby
Oakland is pretty different from San Francisco though, it's on the list of
highest number of crimes in the US:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate)

~~~
alanh
To be clear, I am saying that personally I see crime daily, whether I am in
San Francisco or Oakland, and my co-workers have been sent to the hospital via
attacks right in front of our offices on Market Street in San Francisco.

I will also add that I rarely report crime. This is somewhat learned
helplessness as I do not expect any results. For example, calling Oakland's
non-emergency number has resulted in me eventually giving up after getting
nothing but a busy signal over and over. I was attacked by one of San
Francisco's street addicts, but as I did not suffer any serious injuries, I
did not waste my time reporting it. (I regret this on principle as surely that
person has attacked others and will continue to do so.) I also do not report
the obvious dealers hanging out on corners by our offices because I know from
following the local (Tenderloin) police force's Twitter account that even if
they make the arrest, the dealer will be released within weeks (possibly hours
or days; not sure) back onto the streets. It is common for them to arrest the
same dealers three times in two-month periods. (And no, they aren’t pot
dealers; they are arrested with meth, crack, heroin, and other hard drugs
ready for sale.)

------
SigmundA
Correlation ins't causation of course, but not one mention of video games in
the article:
[https://66.media.tumblr.com/6e0d3c2533b37df820432f5e6d929c83...](https://66.media.tumblr.com/6e0d3c2533b37df820432f5e6d929c83/tumblr_inline_mx9peioujI1r7b0fw.png)

I have always though video game especially violent ones were an outlet for
aggression and could actually curbs those tendencies, not make them worse, it
sure seemed like that way for me growing up, playing Doom and Carmageddon
later Battlefield and GTA. Time line matches up pretty well with violent crime
decline.

~~~
throwaway6766
I think the most important thing here is whether or not the person consuming
the violent media has fantasies of violence. Purely anecdotal, but in my own
life, I'm convinced certain types of media have pushed me over the edge from
fantasy for reality. For example, ever since I was a young child, I found
smoking women to be sexy. I fantasized about it in my adolescent years. Then I
discovered smoking fetish pornography and that really got me going and I
started to think maybe I should actually date smokers. Then I did and I
started to think it might not be to badd to try smoking myself.

I doubt I would have made it this far down my current road had I never taken
that initial jump from purely in my mind to consuming smoking fetish media. In
other words, I think the smoking fetish media helped me take a harmless
fantasy and turn it a ruinous reality. I wonder if the same could happen for
other people with other (not even necessarily sexual) fantasies.

~~~
chaostheory
Opposing data to your anecdote. The rise of porn's accessibility has
supposedly reduced the occurrence of rape

[https://slate.com/culture/2006/10/proof-that-internet-
porn-p...](https://slate.com/culture/2006/10/proof-that-internet-porn-
prevents-rape.html)

[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-
sex/201601...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-
sex/201601/evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault)

~~~
hopler
Rape is a bit of a different category because there is the component of
ejaculation which has a substantial affect on short term desire for sex.

------
rusabd
this quote caught my eyes: ``In San Francisco, said Gascón, prosecutors moved
away from incarcerating children for low-level offenses like truancy or petty
theft as research showed that even one stint in juvenile hall led to a higher
likelihood of recidivism.``

This effect was known from the beginning of the traditional prison system.
Here is the quote from "Discipline and Punish" by Michel Foucault: ``. And,
just as the project of a corrective technique accompanied the principle of
punitive detention, the critique of the prison and its methods appeared very
early on, in those same years 1820-45; indeed, it was embodied in a number of
formulation which - figures apart - are today repeated almost unchanged: ...

\- Detention causes recidivism; those leaving prison have more chance than
before of going back to itl convicts are, in a very high proportion, former
inmates 38 per cent of those who left the maisons centrales were convicted
again and 33 per cent of those sent to con-vict-ships (a figure given by G. de
Rochefoucauld during the debate on the reform of the penal code, 2 December
1831 Archives parle-mentaires, LXXII, 209-10); between 1828 and 1834, out of
almost 30,000 convicted of crime, about 7,400 were recidivists (that is,1 out
of 4.7 of those convicted); out of over 200,000 correctionels, or petty
offenders, almost 35,000 were also recidivists (1 out of 6);in all, one
recidivist out of 5.8 of those convicted (Ducpdtiaux, 1837,276ff);in 1831, out
of 2,174 of those condemned for recidivism, 350 had been in convict-ships,
1,682 in maisons cenffales, 142 in four maisons de correction that followed
the same regime as the centrales (Ducp6tiaux, 1837, 276ff). And the diagnosis
became even more severe during the July monarchy: in 1835, out of 7,223
convicted criminals, 1,486 were recidivists; in 1839, 1749 out of 7,858 ''

Keep in mind, "Discipline and Punish" was published in 1975 which is whooping
44 years ago.

P.S sorry for typos, scanned version of the book is not very good quality

------
Eliezer
I claim not that it is the whole effect size, but certainly the massive drop
in testosterone must account for some of it. Would be interesting to see the
state-by-state, year-by-year correlation.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Going off topic, but: Does anyone know what's causing the drop in
testosterone?

~~~
zackmorris
After working out for 20 years, here's what I've learned anecdotally:

* Testosterone is proportional to lean mass and inversely proportional to fat mass.

* Cholesterol is a precursor to testosterone, so gen x being raised with the "eggs are bad" mentality lowered testosterone.

* Sugar and carbs cause body fat increase, not fat/saturated fat/cholesterol.

* High weight, low reps like the 5x5 workout seem to raise testosterone and strength better than 3x8-12, but power lifting fell out of fashion in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s due to injury concerns which were unjustified. Luckily, this is reversing due to the instruction available on YouTube.

* Lower and misallocated funding for public education has resulted in poor school lunch programs and no money available for extracurricular activities like strength training during adolescence when testosterone is highest.

* Phytoestrogens in factory farm foods like soy antagonize testosterone in boys and cause early puberty in girls.

* Our economy moved from industry to information, so gen x and millennials are far more sedentary than baby boomers and previous generations. I'll let other commenters expand on that!

~~~
ZeroFries
* Testosterone increases lean mass and decreases fat mass. I think you have the relationship backwards

* Your body creates cholesterol, dietary cholesterol hasn't been shown to increase hormone production AFAIK, might want to link some studies if you can find them

* Calories increase body fat, no particular macronutrient has been shown to be disproportionatelly fattening. The insulin hypothesis is mostly incorrect.

* Different workouts produce different hormone reactions in different individuals. Even so, the effect is transient and unluckily to modify average testosterone levels

* Phytoestrogens in normal dietary amounts likely have minimal effects on testosterone

My personal hypothesis is that the environmental load of various endocrine
disruptors from plastics, pharmaceuticals, hygiene products, clothes, etc, has
increased dramatically.

~~~
UnFleshedOne
Re: calories increase fat -- this can't be full picture, I can eat pretty much
anything and not gain weight (I never tried a sugar loaded diet of coke and
cookies though), and I understand this is not so for many people.

I think "calories increase body fat" is a correct, but a very low resolution
statement. One can say that it will rain in the summer sometimes when there is
more water in the air than the air can hold. But what else affects it? Can you
say that today the chance of rain is 20% and tomorrow it is 40%?

------
chrisbrandow
This trend is very real. My wife works with juvenile delinquents and a couple
years ago remarked how surprising the change in occupancy in central juvenile
hall in LA is. Entire units are just closed off now.

This is happening all across the country.

I still don’t see anything as compelling as the elemental lead hypothesis that
Kevin Drum has been pushing for the last couple of years.

~~~
tropdrop
Given that this trend is global, doesn't increased access to safe abortion
make more sense than claims about lead specifically in the United States?

In the US, the sharp reduction in crime happened 18-24 years after the
legalization of Roe v. Wade. Unwanted children who would have been juvenile
delinquents were simply never born. This would fit in nicely with the claims
other commenters have made about some places that have had an _increase_ in
sexually violent crimes, since again, the children who would have been
products of those encounters are never born, so the overall trend is still a
decrease in violent crime.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_e...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect)

~~~
chrisbrandow
It’s not precisely global. Throughout the world it correlates best _by far_
with the year that a given country, state, or region phased out leaded
gasoline.

I.e. declines did not start in same year in every country. They almost
entirely began 18-30 years after phase-out of leaded gasoline.

------
jonathankoren
Just from a graphics design standpoint, the shadow of Snow Fall[0] still looms
large.

[0] [http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-
fall/index.html#/?...](http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-
fall/index.html#/?part=tunnel-creek)

------
tropdrop
What about Steven Levitt's proposal that legalized abortion is the cause of
suddenly vanishing juvenile crime, 20 years after Roe v. Wade?

"Data indicates that crime in the United States started to decline in 1992.
Donohue and Levitt suggest that the absence of unwanted children, following
legalization in 1973, led to a reduction in crime 18 years later, starting in
1992 and dropping sharply in 1995. These would have been the peak crime-
committing years of the unborn children... states that had abortion legalized
earlier should have the earliest reductions in crime. Donohue and Levitt's
study indicates that this indeed has happened: Alaska, California, Hawaii, New
York, Oregon and Washington experienced steeper drops in crime, and had
legalized abortion before Roe v. Wade."

[1] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_e...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect)

------
mirimir
TFA mentions some interesting possibilities. Reduced lead exposures. Increased
prosecution of drug dealers who use minors as soldiers. And non-punitive
management of nonviolent crime, leading to reduced recidivism. [Except maybe
more broken vehicle windows :(]

But maybe it's also the availability of recreational drugs from online dark
markets. That'd be quite the trip, no?

------
DrScump
Fewer _arrests_ != Fewer crimes.

When no arrest is made, the crime is not counted as committed by a juvenile.

------
ppeetteerr
I bet it was due to video games. Kids who play video games don't join IRL
gangs.

~~~
zackmorris
Ya I was just thinking that the arrival of the internet around 1995 should
show up as a drop in violence (by increasing connection and reducing angst for
young people).

Also I wonder if widespread use of marijuana and magic mushrooms in the
relatively prosperous late 90s would have led to a drop in violence, like what
happened during the free love era of the late 60s.

Of course, coming from the Napoleon Dynamite region of southern Idaho, I could
very well have no idea what I'm talking about.

~~~
ppeetteerr
> Of course, coming from the Napoleon Dynamite region of southern Idaho, I
> could very well have no idea what I'm talking about.

Don't be so hard on yourself, in the grand scheme of things, none of us do :)

------
herostratus101
Pretty misleading title. US homicides are up significantly since 2013 (they
rose by almost 25% from 2014 to 2016 before leveling off in 2017 and dropping
perhaps 7% in 2018).

~~~
rhcom2
The article is specifically about youth crime in California.

------
KorematsuFred
That presentation has ended with a question that ends most of the discussion
on anything related to California. "Why does California spend so much ?"

------
DarkWiiPlayer
"451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons" Annoying as that may be, it's nice to see
that it was implemented using the proper HTTP Status code.

------
mirimir
Another GDPR hater, so:
[https://web.archive.org/web20190322023033/http://projects.sf...](https://web.archive.org/web20190322023033/http://projects.sfchronicle.com/2019/vanishing-
violence/)

Edit: Except that all of the images are extremely low resolution. Maybe an
archiving artifact?

------
dgellow
From Berlin:

> 451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons

> Sorry, this content is not available in your region.

:(

~~~
baxtr
GDPR has served as very well so far by limiting our choices. Thanks EU!

~~~
umvi
Well, seems to me like a case of having your cake and eating it too. Which
would you rather have: greater choice or greater privacy?

EU chose the latter at the expense of the former.

~~~
gr__or
Number 3, please. A world in which there's other ways to give back then
selling out your privacy, thereby having great choice and privacy
simultaneously. I know, I'm naive.

------
ucaetano
Damn millennials, ruining juvenile crime!

------
draw_down
Other causes of death have grown. I just saw this headline, "Fentanyl deaths
skyrocketed more than 1,000% over six years in the US"
[https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/21/health/fentanyl-deaths-
increa...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/21/health/fentanyl-deaths-increase-
study/index.html)

~~~
jandrese
6 years ago hardly anybody had heard of Fentanyl. % growth is a misleading
statistic when you're starting out on the bottom of the S curve. I'm not
saying it's not a problem, just that the summary is sensationalized.

~~~
patfla
Still, opiate deaths now outnumber vehicular deaths, although vehicular death
has been dropping. Opiate deaths probably skew young and one might ask: just
what percent of, on average, poor impulse control young people are now killed
by opiate death?

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shambolicfroli
What about countries where there is still a lot of violence?

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danso
What about them? Are you suggesting that the entire world be documented in an
article that has this as its subhead?

> _Serious youth crime has fallen off drastically since the 1990s, leaving
> juvenile halls emptied. So why is California still spending so much?_

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nickelcitymario
In a different HN thread, people were discussing how racially diverse
California has become, largely due to the tech industry.

I wonder if that could have anything to do with it? As youth see more and more
people who look like them find success, maybe they're less inclined to turn to
a career in crime?

(Pure speculation here. I'm not from the area.)

