
Linux Foundation director runs Mac OS? [video] - sammorrowdrums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f8FPnAsIJ4
======
jwildeboer
I am Red Hat's EMEA Evangelist. I do my work on a Lenovo X1 Carbon running Red
Hat Enterprise Linux. I also use a privately owned Macbook for video editing
and an iPad to watch movies when flying.

There's a good tool for every job. For most of my day to day stuff Linux is an
excellent choice. But for some tasks it just is too poor compared to other
solutions.

As I must make choices on what to spend my precious time, it will always be in
favour of an Open Source solution _where the invested time is worth it_ but
sometimes also the pragmatic decision to use something else.

I have always been open about this and I have been attacked, also by Bryan,
who blocks me almost everywhere for that.

So be it. I will always happily sit down with developers to explain why I am
not (yet) using their solution and I will always listen to their explanations
on why I might be having wrong expectations. IMHO especially on the desktop
it's a process to get to better solutions, not a binary switch.

Attacking people for not complying with your criteria is simply wrong and
messed up. You win by convincing, not by shouting down. Simple.

------
DCKing
There's probably good reasons why he wasn't running Linux. I'd imagine for
things someone in his position would need a Mac would make sense, with better
software for making presentations, Office compatibility and video conferencing
compatibility, as well as battery life. It's embarrassing, but understandable.

What this really signifies though is how little the Linux desktop means. The
Linux desktop does not compete with macOS or Windows - at least not in a
business sense. If the Linux desktop suddenly had a dramatic uptick in usage,
it's not obvious to me who would suddenly earn more money. Canonical has
shifted to focus on servers after bleeding money and AFAIK does not make
significant money on the Ubuntu desktop, which is easily the most popular
desktop distro. Many developers do not run it on their own desktops, but
exclusively use Linux based tech on servers.

As a part time Linux desktop user it has become my impression that the Linux
desktop is a community driven (i.e. not profit-driven) project. The only
desktops with significant corporate backing (GNOME and KDE) have this backing
because their major backers (Red Hat and SUSE) do make some small amount of
money selling desktop software, but exclusively in corporate environments
(users of RHEL or SLED workstations don't usually have a choice) to companies
that also adopt their server products. But it's a small thing for both of
them. The Linux Desktop only seems to exist as the result of a gesture of
kindness - big companies continuing to put money into a marginal product, and
a lot of community effort - and using it also tends to feel that way [1].

Making money with Linux is what the Linux Foundation is about. It's the trade
association of people making money with Linux. And that's on infrastructure,
not the desktop. The Linux desktop is not part of making money with Linux. The
desktop apparently matters so little in this picture, not even the director
feels like he should dogfood it.

[1]: Critically: the amount of end users directly paying for their Linux
desktop user experience is close to zero. It's a miracle some desktops are as
nice as they are, given that.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
And why would any company want to invest in desktop Linux when it's a bit of a
toxic community? Even Apple is not really investing in the desktop anymore.
The die hard Mac users are desperate for updated hardware and software these
days.

~~~
stephenr
> The die hard Mac users are desperate for updated hardware and software these
> days.

[Citation needed]

~~~
rhinoceraptor
Just listen to the podcasts (Accidental Tech Podcast, etc.) that talk a lot
about the Mac, they all want updated Mac pros, and before the 2016 MBP,
MacBook pros. Not to mention the poor old Mac mini with Haswell CPUs.

~~~
stephenr
So your argument is basically "before they updated the macs we wanted new
macs".

Apple have released or announced updates to every product line bar the Mac
mini.

------
baldfat
For the last 10 years at all Linux events the number one laptop is a Mac. How
are we to have nice things on Linux Desktop if people don't even know what it
feels like.

~~~
StudentStuff
Whoa whoa whoa, your painting with really broad strokes here! Slow your roll a
bit there, Mac laptops are definitely not the number one laptop at all Linux
events.

From personal experience, I saw very few Macs at SeaGL, there were more at
LFNW, but most people were running some Linux distro on their laptop.

~~~
morganvachon
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the Mac laptops one sees at such events
are actually running a Linux desktop. Apart from EFI quirks, Macs (especially
older Macs) tend to be Linux friendly which extends their life far beyond
Apple's official support lifecycle. You can even keep a PPC Mac alive and
useful thanks to Linux support.

I've got a 2006 era Mac mini that is only officially supported to 10.6 Snow
Leopard; I've managed to install 10.7 Lion via an installer hack, but it's
slow and unstable. Meanwhile the most recent releases of Slackware, Debian,
and Ubuntu all run fine and in Slackware's case, blazing fast on that old
piece of kit.

~~~
baldfat
Linux runs pretty poorly on Apple Hardware. I have tried 2 times and the rule
of thumb is 2 generations back has the best support since it takes a while to
iron out the bugs. I laugh at people when they say they use Linux on their new
Macbooks and they say they have a partition but don't really use it due to
something.

Macbook 2016-2017 Not Working

\- Input and Output Sound - Doesn't Work

\- Suspend - Doesn't Work

\- Bluetooth - Doesn't Work

\- Touch Id - Doesn't Work (Not surprising)

\- Wifi on 13.2.and 13.3; 14.2 and 14.3 - Doesn't Work

[https://gist.github.com/roadrunner2/1289542a748d9a104e7baec6...](https://gist.github.com/roadrunner2/1289542a748d9a104e7baec6a92f9cd7)

[https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux](https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux)

~~~
morganvachon
_" the rule of thumb is 2 generations back has the best support "_

That's exactly what I said, older Macs (as in those no longer supported by
Apple) are great candidates for Linux.

------
sethammons
Plausible reason: required productivity or meeting software. As a director, he
may need to regularly interface with people who don't run Linux friendly
software. At work, I was one of the last Linux hold outs. I still had to have
a Windows client to connect to many meetings because that software only worked
with Windows or Mac. Eventually I gave in and now use a Mac like everyone else
at my work.

~~~
simonh
But if you absolutely need to be using a Mac or Windows to do stuff like that,
and cant function at that level on Linux, how can it be the 'Year Of The Linux
Desktop'?

I'm all for the right tool for the right job, but giving a presentation on the
Linux desktop from a Mac is a bit odd. I can see how it could happen though.
Maybe he got a Mac a few years ago when he thought the Linux desktop wasn't
ready for prime time, now he thinks it is but his personal device update cycle
means he's still using the Mac on momentum.

~~~
dkarl
This is the year of the Linux desktop? I thought that was 2002. With KDE3 and
GNOME 2, for the first time you could mail your elderly relatives unsolicited
stacks of CD-Rs and they were running Linux in no time!

On Reddit, someone else with a longer memory thinks it was 1998. [1]

Sadly, I think we're past the peak unless some major new development shakes
things up. And, since major new desktop UI developments are more likely to
come from Microsoft or Apple than from Linux developers, they are more likely
to put desktop Linux further behind rather than breath new life into it.

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3038d4/when_was_the_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3038d4/when_was_the_first_year_of_the_linux_desktop/)

~~~
soneil
I don't think anyone here is seriously calling it 'the year of the linux
desktop'. They're more calling out the hypocrisy that this is what Jim was
actually saying at the time.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x1r3Osu1Kg&t=3m26s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x1r3Osu1Kg&t=3m26s)

------
crypt1d
meh... I'm a Linux Ops person, and I shift between Linux/Mac/Windows all the
time, depending on what I'm doing at that moment. Sometimes Linux is a PITA
(ever tried setting up Bluetooth on it?) so I end up using my macbook and I'm
not ashamed to admit it. I still love my Linux though.

There's plenty of space for all OSs to fit in this ecosystem. I thought we
were over the 'linux rulz, windows/mac sucks' debate. Guess not.

~~~
soneil
I didn't read this as "linux rulz", but more a reminder of "optics" when you
place yourself in a position to represent .. anything.

If Tim Cook had absolutely no idea what the competition were doing, you'd
start to wonder if that were negligent. But if he showed up for his keynote
wearing an Android Wear watch, you'd start to wonder what was wrong with the
dogfood.

This is the conflicting signals they're complaining about. If you proclaim
that this is "the year of the linux desktop", and do so from an iPad, I think
it's fair for me to question why you thought an iPad was the best tool for the
job.

(aside: Please let "the year of the linux desktop" die. It's a running joke
that's nearly 20 years old now.)

------
INTPenis
Clickbait in my HN?

I advocate open source. I build systems with open source for clients, saving
them tons of money. I run Mac OS at work. My personal laptop runs Fedora
though.

I use KVM as a hypervisor. I run Turris Omnia for wifi at home. I've made my
own OpenBSD router at home.

I'm not a director. I'm a techie-nerd. I still run Mac OS.

This video is complete BS.

~~~
sammorrowdrums
I actually wrote the link title differently, as I didn't like the clickbait
question mark. It was edited by a mod, to be the actual title of the video
which is fair, but I can see why it would irk you!

------
davexunit
This is one of the lesser reasons why the Linux Foundation is terrible. The
Linux Foundation as a whole couldn't give less of a shit about free and open
source software. They welcome companies that violate Linux contributors
copyright with open arms.

------
peterbonney
When Alan Mulally took the reins at Ford, he famously kept driving his Lexus
at first [1]. It delivered a message - maybe not one that Ford employees
_wanted_ to hear, but probably one they _needed_ to hear.

Of course Linux devs aren't employees and the director of the Linux Foundation
isn't their CEO. Nonetheless, perhaps there is a challenging but important
message here that one could reflect upon quietly rather than ranting about.

1\. [http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-ford-ceo-drives-a-
lexus.html](http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-ford-ceo-drives-a-lexus.html)

------
hs86
Linux is used by these members of the Linux Foundation [1] because they earn
money with it and not because the world is going to be a better place. Among
these significant members do you see any company that is building products or
services around the Linux desktop and is having a major success with it?

There is no money to make with the Linux desktop and therefore the director of
the Linux foundation does not need to promote desktop Linux by using it
himself. Just who is going to build the next AWS or Cloudfare with Linux just
because he saw the latest Gnome/KDE on some dude's laptop?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#Members](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Foundation#Members)

------
Thoreandan
Can't find a link right now, but Steve Jobs, when he was acting as Interim CEO
at Apple, used a NeXT computer for his own desktop -- it was a significant
event (maybe the Power Mac G4 Cube?) when Steve changed over to running OS X
for his own use.

Perhaps the twelve Platinum Members could donate 1 engineer each (for a team
of 12 -
[https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/](https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/)
) to spend a year focusing on the issues (Codecs? Desktop tweaks?
Interoperability?) to get people like the CEO able to function with 100%
Linux. I wonder if SuSE would be functional for the job.

------
peterkelly
The kind of extremist religious zeal exhibited in this video is the worst
aspect of the Linux community.

~~~
talaketu
extreme zeal is the worst aspect? ok, great.

~~~
StudentStuff
If you don't feel supportive of that zeal, or are on the wrong end of it,
extreme zeal can be quite off putting.

That being said, it is far from the worst part of the community, that is by
far reserved for the bullshit that some community members have pulled on those
of us that are female. I've seen talking down to active Ubuntu Local Community
heads at conferences and local happenings put on by said Ubuntu LoCos and it
is HORRIBLE. Why the fuck do certain people feel the need to repeatedly harass
a volunteer?

------
tomrod
I appreciate the call out's intent, but I don't agree that having an OS
preference is a negative, even in this case. At work I am required to use
Windows even though I have a strong Linux preference. The cross platform
experience makes me all the more aware of the differences in use and
productivity.

Anyhow, my $0.02

~~~
Sir_Cmpwn
He's... the director of the _Linux Foundation_. It's like saying Nadia uses a
Mac or Cook uses a Windows machine. I mean, the Linux Foundation is hardly a
respected entity, but they could at least try to appear legitimate on the
surface!

~~~
tyingq
In a way, there is a similarity with Tim Cook. Anything he demos that has a
backend server (iCloud, etc) is running on Linux.

Though the "optics" is less of an issue since it's not visible.

~~~
zeckalpha
iCloud is running Linux?

~~~
tyingq
Yes, Apple appears to be using Linux as their standard server for anything on
the back end.

Here's an iCloud engineer job posting.

[https://jobs.apple.com/us/search?#&ss=Linux&t=1&so=&lo=0*USA...](https://jobs.apple.com/us/search?#&ss=Linux&t=1&so=&lo=0*USA&pN=0&openJobId=58243185)

Edit: Or perhaps you meant the errant typo where I should have said "on
Linux"? Fixed.

------
jasonkostempski
Mac is really the only choice for someone that has to be able to develop and
test for everything because Apple products can only be developed and tested on
Apple hardware and software, everything else can be run in VMs or dual booted.

------
neo4sure
Wel at least he wasn't running a windows machine....

