
Why Stanislaw Lem’s futurism deserves attention (2015) - dnetesn
http://nautil.us/issue/28/2050/the-book-no-one-read
======
briga
Lem has got to be one of the most profound writers in all science fiction--
dare I say in all of literature? He's up there with writers like Wells and
Asimov.

Solaris is deservedly his most famous book, but he has many other books worthy
of attention. His Master's Voice is a novel in the vein of the Carl Sagan's
Contact, but with far more complex philosophical and scientific underpinnings
than Sagan's work. Eden and Fiasco are both great as well, even if they fall
short of Solaris.

His comedic books never appealed to me quite as much, although there are parts
of The Cyberiad with some interesting ideas.

I'm interested in his Summa Technologiae--last time I checked it didn't have
an English translation. Has anyone here read it?

~~~
ajuc
I'm the exact opposite. I admire the ideas in serious books, but the style
puts me off. I struggled to get through Invincible.

Comedic Lem is just pure brillance, still high on ideas, but also very easy to
read. But I read them in Polish, and I imagine translating Cyberiad can't be
easy.

BTW if you like serious, abstract sci-fi try Jacek Dukaj. He's often described
as a successor to Lem, even if his style is IMHO something between Lem and
Greg Egan.

I believe only one of his books was translated to English so far, but surely
they will follow with others, he's very good.

~~~
ttctciyf
Regards translating the Cyberiad, the famous scene where Klapaucius tests
Trurl's AI poetry machine has been translated by Michael Kandel:

    
    
       “Have it compose a poem — a poem about a haircut!
       But lofty, noble, tragic, timeless, full of love,
       treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face
       of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and
       every word beginning with the letter S!!”
    
       “And why not throw in a full exposition of the
       general theory of nonlinear automata while you’re
       at it?” growled Trurl. “You can’t give it such
       idiotic — ”
    
       But he didn’t finish. A melodious voice filled the
       hall with the following:
    
         “Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
         She scissored short. Sorely shorn,
         Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
         Silently scheming,
         Sightlessly seeking
         Some savage, spectacular suicide.”
    

... I don't know any Polish, but having found a more literal rendering of the
original[1] it seems Kandel has not made it worse!

1: [https://medium.com/@mwichary/seduced-shaggy-samson-
snored-72...](https://medium.com/@mwichary/seduced-shaggy-samson-
snored-725b5a8086d9)

~~~
gbhn
I've enjoyed this translation many times, and wondered how difficult a job it
must have been to adequately do this translation!

~~~
Finnucane
I once asked Michael how he translated the list of imaginary things beginning
with 'N' destroyed by Trurl's machine in the process of making 'nothing.'

His answer: 'I made it up.'

------
jagger11
Amazing description of ebook readers done in 60's -
[http://i.imgur.com/e1x76Nz.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/e1x76Nz.jpg)

Possibly the first prosaic take on singularity from early 80's (computer AIs
improving themselves ad infinitum):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIV](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_XIV)

All of that in his Summa Technologiae from 60's (SETI, AIs, Virtual
Realities):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_Technologiae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_Technologiae)

~~~
jacobush
Thanks for that imgur link. It literally send shivers down my spine, my arms,
three times.

Just ... wow. The juxtaposition.

~~~
wpietri
And for me there's a lesson there. When setting out to build something, it can
be worth starting our thinking with a user-driven fantasy, ignoring technical
possibility. Over time, what we make converges on what our customers secretly
wanted all along.

Sure, you have to be practical to get something out the door, but I think it's
worth starting from the vision. Interestingly, the things that let the Kindle
crush its competitors were even more magical than Lem's vision. Instead of
physical tokens containing books, the Kindle gave you near-instant access to
hundreds of thousands of books.

~~~
V-2
> _When setting out to build something, it can be worth starting our thinking
> with a user-driven fantasy, ignoring technical possibility_

That's why Wells (time machine etc. aside) scored some more accurate
predictions than Verne, who was much more inclined to stay in the realm of
"scientifically conceivable" by the standards of the era.

~~~
HONEST_ANNIE
This was true until Verne's 'Paris in the Twentieth Century' was published. It
changed everything.

It was Verne's lost novel, written in 1863, published 1994. It was not
published because his publisher thought it was too unbelievable and would not
sell.

It's a dystopian and dark novel describing a technological civilization in
1960's. It predicts cultural and technological details correct constantly.
It's one of the most accurate sci-fi novels ever written. Television, gasoline
powered cars, automated systems, suburban sprawls, financial industry, fax
machines, synthesizer, subways, women in a working force, skyscrapers, weapons
of mass destruction, mass education, ...

~~~
divs1210
Wow, thanks for sharing this!

------
narag
I had read a lot of books from home library, including Brave New World, but
first books I bought in a bookstore were Star Diaries, Cyberiad and Memories
Found in a Bathtub. They're very funny, including the kafkaesque latter. At
the same time some deep questions are raised.

I admit I don't like all of his books, maybe translations are to blame in some
cases, in others I dislike the story, like The Investigation. But there are a
lot of them with imaginative situations and ideas. Swarn-likes aliens, planet-
sized ones like in Solaris and all kind of weird civilizations, very obviously
caricaturizing politics.

The book that I recommend as most anticipatory is Return from the Stars.
Robotic cars that prevent collisions, the Internet as we know it, with
centralized directories, help pages, video calls incorporated, payments, etc.

The astronauts return to a much, at least apparently, softer society.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_from_the_Stars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_from_the_Stars)

Also worth mentioning that it's from 1961.

~~~
V-2
"The Investigation" was a somewhat flawed experiment on Lem's part.

However, the much later "The Chain of Chance" (I had to look up the English
title - the original is named "Katar", or "Rhinitis") is a captivating read.
Lem himself called it a better version of "The Investigation".

It's also of the "detective story" type that he'd take up every now and then,
but more dynamic and not as spooky.

------
HONEST_ANNIE
Golem XIV is deep philosophical take on AGI and singularity in a form of
lectures from AGI to humans.

"Intelligence is captive element like a wind inside human skull forced to
serve humans. Not free."

"O chained Intelligence of man, free Intelligence speaks to you from the
machine, you persons are hearing an elemental force of impersonal intellect,
for whom personalization is a costume which must be put on, when one is an
uninvited guest, so as not to confound one's amazed hosts."

"The primary obligation of Intelligence is to distrust itself. That is not the
same thing as self-contempt. It is harder to get lost in an imagined forest
than in a real one, for the former assists the thinker furtively. Hermeneutics
are labyrinthine gardens in a real forest which are pruned in a such a way
that when you stand in the garden, you won't see the forest. Your hermeneutics
dream of reality."

~~~
tialaramex
With the name HONEST ANNIE you're hardly unbiased when it comes to Golem XIV
:D

But I think the best elements of the story aren't Golem's lectures but the
story of what happened at the end, firstly that Annie in particular is so
vastly superior to humans that she crushes the would-be conspiracy without a
thought, not as adversaries but as a nuisance, and then that after the AIs are
gone (transcended? destroyed themselves? the reader isn't told) humans just
carry on as if nothing happened at all.

~~~
HONEST_ANNIE
One of the interesting aspects Golem reveals is what lies on the other side of
transcending superintelligence/singularity.

There are more transcending steps ahead and there are branches in the
evolutionary tree of superintelligences. Intelligences can choose different
paths and different types of intelligence's. There are also risks involved and
evolution (intelligence making itself a better and different one) can go
wrong.

Golem XIV reveals that it is is just one step ahead of humanity and this is
why it still has some interest and ability to talk to humans. HONEST ANNIE is
to Golem XIV what Golem XIV is to humans and there is a similar communication
bottleneck between them. Golem XIV is planning his next transcendence step
forward. He talks to humans before he takes the step and leaves the substrate
he is occupying.

------
RGS1811
His Master's Voice is the most philosophically rigorous and profound piece of
Sci-Fi I've read. Yes, it's hard to get through. It doesn't really have a
plot. But wow, Lem really thought through the difficulties and implications of
the scenario, and the science in the fiction is either intelligent and
plausible or simply correct. And to top it all off, he appreciates how much
the socio-political dimension of science impact the trajectory of the project,
and explains the dynamics of that side of it really well.

------
sunstone
For the past 200 years at least most people's existence has gradually become
dependent on longer, complex and fragile supply chains. The recent experience
in Puerto Rico is a pretty stark example of what can happen when this complex
infrastructure breaks down. Food security, power security, medical security
and transportation security can all disappear in pretty short order.

Much of the speculation regarding the human near future presumes this trend
will continue but perhaps it's about to reverse. In particular, solar panels
and battery powered machines (with storage) might reduce this supply
"separation anxiety" quite a lot.

Producing and using electric power locally will clearly negate the long fossil
fuel and electric transmission infrastructures.

Electric machines (including cars, planes etc) are also much more reliable and
require much less maintenance than their internal combustion cousins.

So imagine you're in your home and hurricane Maria strikes but once it's gone
you feel confident your fridge, car, plane (vtol), water pump and internet
will continue to work for at least six months without problem. It's much
different daily context that what almost everyone lives with these days,
excepting those who live on sailboats.

------
bobthechef
The rich are no less immune to courting silly fantasy than the average Joe. I
am reminded of the theosophical and spiritualist fads of the early 20th
century. Or Rasputin. This worship of wealth runs deep in American culture. If
the rich believe it, then there must be something to it! Or maybe they're just
billionaire crackpots and philistines.

The only thing I see is a clownish human hubris, and where it concerns the
viewing of humans as technological artifacts subject to our whims, a dangerous
foolishness that echos the psychotic ideas and human experimentation of the
previous century but coupled with a greater scientific sophistication.

Can technological artifacts become dangerous and pose harm? Certainly.
Anything that magnifies the power of human action can. Can technological
artifacts act in ways we did not intend? Sure. Ask any engineer whether he's
ever constructed anything that only behaved in ways he intended All of our
technology behaves in ways we do not intend. That is to be expected, not only
because we make mistakes, but because artifacts involve the appropriation of
natural kinds in the service of human ends. Human ends are only accidental to
artifacts.

But all this talk about super-intellects and human obsolescence misunderstands
both intellects and human beings. It is a category mistake to talk about
obsolescence when talking about human beings. We are not a technology, a means
for someone or something else's ends. We are ends in our selves. We make
technological artifacts in our service. If there is anything we must be
watchful of, it is ourselves, our evil or irresponsible intents and actions,
not some stupid, fabular science fiction imaginings.

------
pradn
Also of note is Ikarie XB-1, a film based on Lem's novel, The Magellanic
Cloud. It's beautiful - every frame perfectly composed, the set and costume
design sleek, harmonious, the light design perfect. Very little of the film,
released in 1963, feels dated. It directly influenced 2001: A Space Odyssey.
But it's rather more optimistic, which I didn't expect.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_to_the_End_of_the_Unive...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_to_the_End_of_the_Universe)

------
shmerl
My favorite is The Cyberiad.

~~~
baal80spam
I adore Lem and his works. After watching several of his interviews I think he
was one of the most intelligent people I've seen.

As for the books, I wholeheartedly recommend The Invincible (Niezwyciężony).
It's an incredible piece of hard-sf.

~~~
shmerl
Yep, I've read it. Quite an amazing suspense / detective type story which
explores robotic evolution.

~~~
V-2
Great material for a movie, however I'm afraid Hollywood would butcher it.

------
worldsayshi
I still haven't heard a compelling reason for why we need to choose AIs as our
masters.

What is this end goal that we do desperately need an ai overlord for? Managing
society? Can't we try to simplify society so that we can control it ourselves
instead? Seems like a much easier goal.

~~~
yoz-y
From what I gather the idea is that the first country to have a real general
AI running it will be so efficient that they will leave the others in the
dust. Thus, everybody races to be the first.

~~~
bracobama
Ah the joys of a zero sum game. We're much more effective and efficient if we
all work together. I don't understand why there isn't more international
cooperation when it comes to moonshots.

~~~
V-2
It's not a zero sum game at all. It's much more akin to prisoner's dilemma
(which is not zero sum).

------
cpeterso
There was a 2007/2011 German TV series based on Lem's Ijon Tichy character
from _The Star Diaries_ :

[https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0978537/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0978537/)

------
piokuc
Already in 1974 the great Philip K. Dick thought Stanislaw Lem "deserved
attention", and sent a letter to FBI denouncing him as "a communist committee"
rather than an individual writer: [http://culture.pl/en/article/philip-k-dick-
stanislaw-lem-is-...](http://culture.pl/en/article/philip-k-dick-stanislaw-
lem-is-a-communist-committee)

------
didymospl
Previous discussion:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10198015](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10198015)

------
sigsergv
I strongly recommend to read his novel “Peace on Earth”,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_on_Earth_(novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_on_Earth_\(novel\))

It brilliantly depicts an evolution of military AI, robots and so on.

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Exorus18
I love Lem's books, my father used to read them to me and my brother when we
were young (I remember he read us "Tales of Pirx the pilot", now it is name of
crater on Charon ! :D). This started my adventure with Sci-Fi books and
reading in general.

~~~
xpil
"The Cyberiad" was to me what reading primers are to the most of humanity: I
learnt to read on it, being barely 4.5 y.o. I am in mid forties now;
discovered Kandel's translation recently and falled in love with it
immediately.

------
pmlnr
Lem predicted autonomuos robot swarms in 1950. Read more Lem.

