
HP is buying Samsung’s printer business for $1.05B - freshfey
https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/12/hp-is-buying-samsungs-printer-business-for-1-05-billion/?ncid=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
======
jwr
> "to breathe much needed new energy and ideas into the industry"

Much needed indeed. The printer industry is a catastrophe. There is zero
innovation, everybody keeps making the same crap over and over again, with new
branding, and new numbers/designations. Is your Samsung X1214LX2 better than
your HP LP19311A?

Also, where are the specialized niche printers? Why can't I print ink on a
copper PCB, so that I can etch it later? Why can't I print soldermasks or
silkscreens? Where is my printer that prints on fabric? All of these could be
sold for much more than the ultra-low-margin generic home office printers, and
yet manufacturers can't be bothered to innovate.

~~~
makomk
I'm pretty sure one big printer company buying another big printer company is
the exact opposite of "disruption" and reduces the amount of "new ideas and
energy" in the industry. Indeed, the press release says something slighthy
different: "Today, HP is investing to disrupt this category by replacing
copiers with superior multifunction printer (MFP) technology." Basically, they
want to replace the copier industry with printers, bringing the exact same
crap you complain about to a whole new market segment. (Most photocopiers are
already just digital scanners coupled to printers internally. They just want
to replace them with cheaper, worse ones.)

~~~
sly010
My mom worked in the printing industry with a company doing refills. She told
me newer printers are hardwired to unrecoverably die after a fixed number of
pages. Depending on the model you can even query how many pages you have left
in the machine (not talking about ink here).

Also my vet once told me he replaces his home printer every time it runs out
of ink, because replacing the cartridge costs the same order of magnitude as a
new printer and this he can always have the latest and greatest.

~~~
wlesieutre
You should let you vet know that the printers ship with "starter cartridges"
that are lower capacity than the replacements. Buying new ink cartridges might
cost $10 more than the new printer, but it'll give him twice as many pages.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
I've figured it makes most sense to have a cheap'n'stupid B/W laserprinter at
home, and just order whatever photo prints I need from a print shop.
Occasional color photo printing at home is more expensive per photo than
getting it from a shop i I'm not printing photos every week.

~~~
kalleboo
The only thing I seem to print these days is a yearly tax form or two. I don't
even waste the space with a printer - I just go to 7/11 for my printing needs
and pay a couple cents per page.

~~~
pmorici
If all you print is sensitive tax documents is 7/11 really the place you want
to do that?

~~~
kalleboo
I'm not sure how sensitive tax documents are to me
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12423891](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12423891)

A valid concern though, it's been shown those MFDs keep junk around in their
buffers forever

~~~
pmorici
In the US very sensitive. Mostly because they contain all the personal
information you would need to commit identity fraud. They also us information
from prior year returns to positively identify you on subsequent years. ie:
your AGI from last years form is used to verify your identity for the next
year.

------
jylam
I worked for some months on the printer industry (on the image processing
side). Innovation is not a word we used a lot. A printer is basically a
microcontroller driving a DSP doing some image processing (scaling and
dithering mostly). The µC then sends that to another µC driving the different
motors. The DSP is a generic component used by half the industry. The other
half used another DSP. Both the µCs are generic components used by half the
industry. The other half, you know the drill.

It was maybe 7 years ago, and I guess now they have a single µC containing the
DSP and able to speak USB, do the dithering, and control the motors all in one
package. There is almost no R&D in those markets. That's how you get a $20
printer (and $50 ink cartridges).

Do no count on printing on PCBs or fabric, that'll be R&D, and that's
expensive, no one cares up there.

~~~
hrktb
To state the obvious, it's an industry that will really have a serious growth
problem in the coming decades.

Right now people are still printing a ton and more every year, but laptops and
tablet are becoming very affordable in most situations where paper was needed
in companies, and paperless is something that starts to become the norm.

I hear the printer in our office like once a week, my printer at home actually
prints twice a year. We used to have whole areas in big supermarkets with
printer boxes, now it's like three models in a corner.

What saddens me is that scanners haven't evolve much as well, at this time
where they are more needed that anytime before. I deeply regret not having
bought a snapscan, but then the software that drives them seems so limited
(last time I checked it was coupled with evernote, and nothing like dropbox or
gdrive integration) it doesn't feel that much better than other scanners
coupled with a always on home server solution.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
It's already happening, there has been increasing consolidation in the printer
market, this announcement is just another example of that.

------
__michaelg
LargeCorp foo division buys BigCorp's foo division in order to disrupt the foo
business? That seems... unlikely.

------
Johnny555
The best printer decision I ever made was to quit buying disposable inkjets
and purchase a cheap Brother laser printer instead.

I've had it for about 8 years now and it's still going strong. I don't print
much (which is why the inkjets kept clogging up stopped working), but about
2000 pages later, it's only on its second toner cartridge and will probably
not run out for years.

I'm kind of hoping that it breaks so I can replace it with a color laser, but
it's been extremely reliable.

~~~
djfergus
For what its worth, the cheap Brother printers use a binary blob driver for
Linux which only has x86 drivers. So don't get caught thinking you can use
your ARM Raspberry Pi or Synology NAS as a low power print server...

------
znpy
Hopefully we'll now have good Linux support for Samsung printers.

Last time I bought a printer I went straight to hp ones and ignored all the
others (Canon printers above all), and recommend HP printers to all who ask
me.

Hplip is awesome and often don't get all the praises it deserves.

~~~
radicalbyte
I'd stay away from their InkJet printers. Mine has a chip which forces you to
replace coloured ink when it's empty.

I've not printed one color page, yet I recently had to install a new yellow
ink cartridge in order to print in black/white.

~~~
gbl08ma
Most printers do - at least that's what I found out after I realized both of
my Epson printers wouldn't print in black without color cartridges. Color
cartridges are still used when printing in black and white, because the black
ink alone will look terrible. Granted, it would be better if printers offered
an option to print with just the black ink and get the terrible result, for
emergencies. However, I'm sure lots of people would just click the
warnings/confirmations away and then complain about the bad quality of the
results.

I should mention that if you do mostly black and white printing it may be more
economical to get a laser printer, even just a grayscale one.

~~~
CaptSpify
> Color cartridges are still used when printing in black and white, because
> the black ink alone will look terrible.

Source? Also, how do B&W printers solve this problem then?

~~~
gbl08ma
I know that when the color heads on my printers are obstructed, black text
will often come washed out (as if you printed in economy mode, or worse). I
have looked at black text, printed with my newer Epson, with a magnifying
glass, and I can see a few color dots near the edges of the text (these are
not photocopies, it's text documents printed in B&W mode). I suppose it works
a bit like anti-aliasing in some font rendering systems.

I'm not sure how B&W inkjet printers solve it, but it's probably by spending
more ink to avoid the wash-out. As other people pointed out, some color
printers allow for printing with just the black cartridge in. I don't have one
of these to compare, so it's possible the text doesn't look as crisp on these
because of the lack of "anti-aliasing".

I suppose part of the reason for this limitation to apply to some printers but
not others has to do with the business model (ink is expensive and for some
brands/model lines it's the main source of revenue), and perhaps the
technology used - some printers have disposable headers on the cartridges
themselves, and others (like the printers I own) have non-disposable headers,
which basically means the printer is ruined if ink dries up in the headers.
This may be why some printers require the cartridges, even if empty, to be in,
so the headers are not as exposed to the air.

Unfortunately manufacturers don't like to give extensive explanations (see my
business model point above...), but on user forum threads like [0] and [1]
there are some suggestions for why things are the way they are.

[0] [http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/224699-28-print-black-
co...](http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/224699-28-print-black-color-empty)
[1] [http://superuser.com/questions/409473/how-to-print-in-
black-...](http://superuser.com/questions/409473/how-to-print-in-black-and-
white-when-a-color-ink-cartridge-is-out-of-ink)

------
samfisher83
Printing happens to be HPs most profitable group. They make more money selling
ink than software. They made 3.8B on 21B in sales in 05.

[http://h30261.www3.hp.com/~/media/Files/H/HP-
IR/documents/re...](http://h30261.www3.hp.com/~/media/Files/H/HP-
IR/documents/reports/2016/2015-form-10k.pdf)

~~~
rhaps0dy
>They make more money selling ink than <activity>

I'm not surprised. At all. With the prices ink has...

------
wooptoo
Such a shame. Samsung printers were among the best in the industry. I feel
that HP were pretty mediocre in the last few years and they're just riding the
hype train.

What we need are printers which are more "open". Cheaper to run, easier to
service. Just like the ones Brother makes. Their toners are refillable and the
drum is a separate unit. And they have Linux drivers out of the box.

~~~
Ar-Curunir
Brother printers are great. My black and white laser printer has been great
fit 4 years so far.

~~~
noja
And since Samsung region encodes their toner/ink now, Brother are about to get
a lot more business.

------
kronion
> "Samsung will make a reciprocal investment of between $100 million and $300
> million into HP’s business."

Is this a standard M&A term? Why not acquire Samsung's business for $100-300M
less?

------
Kequc
That's too bad, I bought a cheap Samsung laser printer that thing was a tank,
I bought one for my mother too and it's still going. HP on the other hand make
the worst printers I have ever used anywhere.

~~~
kristopolous
I only buy samsung. The laser printers are cheap, durable and resilient. They
remind me of what HP was, in 1989.

Now they are a scam. They do a better version of the hustle Gillette does with
its razors.

Somewhere in the 90s they realized higher profits were available if they
hoodwinked people by coercing them to become a victim to a proprietary ink-
cartridge dependency racket. With that, their integrity and quality were
summarily abandoned. What a crooked morally bankrupt company.

------
sly010
Let me ask this: How much would anyone here pay for a quality printer that
lasts virtually forever, has great software support across all platform and
got cheap ink/toner that fits automatically replaced?

~~~
pcurve
I have a wireless Brother printer that I paid $120 for 8 years ago and still
on the 'starter' toner. Worked fine through XP, Windows 7, 8, 10, and Mac. I
have a replacement toner that I bought 4 years ago because the printer said
toner was running low, but I must've printed out at least 1000 sheets since
then and still it prints fine.

Bottom line... no more than $150.

~~~
paulmd
Yup Brother is the way to go. I have one of their MFP units and it's been rock
solid. My parents have been using a printer unit for about a decade now.

I wish I had a color laser but it's at least $300 more for an equivalent unit
and I just don't care that much anymore. Most of what we'd print are photos
and it's cheaper to just go to the supermarket and have them run on a Kodak
machine. A couple cents per print = oh well. An inkjet system would probably
end up costing us more anyway once you factor in wastage like ink lost to head
cleaning.

Inkjets are really only economical for people who are using them for color
photo prints on a daily basis, and those people are moving to bulk-ink/inktank
systems and getting bigtime savings. For everyone else, B+W laser is by far
the best solution for "occasional printing" and has really nice bleed/smear
resistance, and the Brothers are best-in-class.

------
thorntonbf
Samsung has a printer business? Who knew?

~~~
makomk
They make pretty decent laser printers, from what I can tell.

~~~
osullivj
They do. I got a Samsung C480 colour laser printer, scanner, copier a few
weeks back to replace a broken Dell. The cartridges are far more accessible
than the Dell. All three functions are reliable so far; so it's been a good
buy for 208GBP. I'm becoming something of a Samsung loyalist. My Ultra laptop
is still going strong after nearly four years, as is my 3 yr old Galaxy S4
phone and 10 yr old flat screen TV.

------
grabcocque
I suppose somebody has to make printers. And it's not like HP are good at
anything else, so...

~~~
KevinEldon
I've used by EliteBook 8570w for about 4 years. It's a powerful, rugged laptop
with a decent keyboard and good screen. I've upgraded the memory and hard
drive over time and don't plan on replacing it any time soon.

My mom just bought a Windows 10 laptop from HP for under $200 including tax;
that's an amazing price point... sure there will be bloatware and it's a
cheaply made laptop... but for under $200 that's pretty impressive.

~~~
protomyth
My counter example is we bought 120 of their cellular equipped netbooks from
Verizon and had 100 hard drive failures. They got tired of us shipping them
back and just sent us hard drives to replace. Our techs did not like the
headache.

------
mathattack
_HP is buying Samsung’s printer business for $1.05 billion in a move aimed at
“disrupting” the dusty and stale printing industry._

By "Disrupting" do they mean monopolizing?

------
mindcrime
I guess office use is one thing, but I haven't bothered keeping a printer at
home for at least the last 8 years or so. On the rare occasion I need to print
something, I use Fedex' online print service and pick up the prints at the
Fedex store near my apartment.

I can't help but feel that traditional paper printers are a dying breed in
general. Yeah, it'll be a long, slow death, but paper definitely seems passé
in general.

Now if we're talking 3d printers and specialty printers like others have
mentioned, that seems like an area where there could be some room for growth.
Heck, if anything, I can't help but wonder if a company like HP shouldn't
generalize the idea of "printer" even more and introduce a line of desktop CNC
milling machines and the like.

------
Bino
All I can say, congrats to Samsung.

------
jimjimjim
the problem is us (in the general population usage of 'us').

The bulk of people are going to buy a $79 printer instead of a $89 because
they are unable to see the differences (not their fault).

Therefore each and every manufacturer will find ways to lower the price and
end up making the shittiest piece of knocked together crap that still looks
shiny.

------
JoeAltmaier
Hm. My printing volume is down tenfold from a few years back. Pretty much all
I print now, is card stock for my game club (draft copies of new card games).
And my printer has a hard time if it gets very thick.

I wonder, has paper sales volume tanked? Is specialty printing all that's
left? Why don't printers do a better job there already?

------
sandstrom
Ink already cost about $4000 per liter ($16,000 per gallon). More
consolidation isn't what this industry needs.

[https://www.fastcodesign.com/3021290/why-printer-ink-
should-...](https://www.fastcodesign.com/3021290/why-printer-ink-should-be-
packaged-like-chanel-no-5)

------
mjmasn
Samsung printers are awful, and their customer service is non-existent.
They'll have a lot of synergy with HP ;)

------
codeulike
Please let me know if anyone makes a wifi home printer that actually works.

~~~
ashmud
I have a Canon Pixma MG7520 that works fine over wifi with a Win 8.1 client.
Quality of the prints are scans are pretty much inline with the price I paid
(i.e., mediocre). It sees very light use, so I have no ideas about how long or
well it will last. I got it to scan contracts and for the occasional color
print (not photos).

------
tome
Does HP do anything other than buy and sell vast business units?

------
gjolund
I've been thinking about investing in the cable tv industry, this seems like
as good a time as any.

------
alanbernstein
HP will also be buying Samsung's ink business for $10B in approximately three
months.

------
agumonkey
It's a weird business. Kinda like taxi cabs with the advent of Uber / SDV.
Printers are from the era of paper day offices, nowadays most prints are not
that useful and mostly mandatory for rare official documents. Most of things
are now mailed.

The business model is also odd, a entry level wireless scanner/printer is only
worth 2 packs of cartridges.

methinks..

------
nobrains
So, its going to be HP vs. Brother now in the home printers industry.

------
reiichiroh
HP has their ink subscription thing. That's innovation, right?

------
nfriedly
Yea, but how much is the ink going to cost? (</sarcasm>)

------
ashitlerferad
Where is my book full of e-ink pages?

Where is my stack of A4 e-ink pages?

------
jbverschoor
Good luck with "Deve Home Sensor Error" hp.

------
pipio21
Ohhh, man. With negative interest rates companies have it easier to buy the
competition that actually competing with them.

Innovation is never obtained from big companies buying other big companies. On
the contrary.

~~~
shostack
How does that work exactly? Does the bank pay you to borrow money?

------
roflchoppa
lemme just slap a ball point pen into the printer, use that things ink. ill
buy that printer. ill pay top dollar for that.

------
camiller
Samsung has/had a printer business???

~~~
protomyth
They're not bad printers, its a little weird with the circular toner
cartridges on the model we bought, but it hasn't broke and the drivers worked.

------
PanosJee
What is a printer?

~~~
Kequc
They use them to make paper with words on it.

------
jkk4y
breaking news - samsung made printers?

------
moomin
I would be quite surprised if the EU didn't take a pretty dim view of this
deal.

~~~
urda
Who cares, the EU has no jurisdiction on this matter.

