
NZ Court of Appeal Upholds Kim Dotcom Extradition Decision to the US - flashfive
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12083480
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Firerouge
I wonder if a time will come when the US will extradite the CEO of a hosting
company for failing to filter content to the satisfaction of the proposed EU
copyright law.

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tedunangst
Generally the alleged activity must also be illegal in the country you are
being extradited from.

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6nf
I understand that Kim didn't actually break any NZ laws though?

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ALittleLight
The explanation I've heard is that he had servers in the US, he paid people in
the US, he made money from customers in the US by breaking the law in the US
and therefore the US government position is that he is a criminal in the US
and should face penalities here. Whether he did anything illegal in NZ or
whether he should be extradited is obviously a question for NZ legal
authorities.

I've always felt conflicted about his case myself. On the one hand I have
natural sympathies for people using software to share information. I also
think American prisons are terrible places and it would be awful to be
imprisoned in one.

On the other hand, MegaUpload did seem like it was brazenly profiting off of
other people's intellectual property. Communications referenced in the
original indictment made it seem like the Mega employees agreed that their
business was based on copyright infringement. That would also match my common
sense intuitions.

Hopefully the NZ courts will reach a wise conclusion.

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thomastjeffery
> MegaUpload did seem like it was brazenly profiting off of other people's
> intellectual property.

As much as US propaganda would like us to see it as a lame technicality, there
is a very important distinction here: Megaupload was not directly profiting
from copyright infringement, they were profiting by being a place for
copyright infringement.

The reason they were so successful is that there wasn't a competing service in
that niche other than BitTorrent.

Megaupload just hosted files. They are seen as some evil copyright-infringing
business simply because they didn't actively filter those files. They
considered the content of their users' data to be none of their business. I
think it's ludicrous to prosecute them for such reasonable behavior.

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ALittleLight
I don't really see this as US propaganda. I think it's likely that MegaUpload
was facilitating for profit copyright infringement. If copyright exists for
any reason it should be to stop other people from selling your intellectual
property for a profit.

MegaUpload did not just host files but they also made it easy to share access
to those files and paid people who hosted files that were shared a lot.

MegaUpload knew about content that was infringing on copyright and did nothing
about it (per the indictment). When MegaUpload was given take down notices
they did not remove offending content but instead deactivated links to the
content. If I torrented a movie, uploaded it on MegaUpload, then generated a
hundred links to share on a hundred forum posts, I could share the movie, make
money from Mega for doing so, and avoid take downs by generating new links.

Do you believe that intellectual property should be defended by law?

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varenc
The key point for me is that even when MegaUpload was given a DMCA takedown
notice, they intentionally made the simplest possible response that barely
addressed the issue.

If they'd simply removed all the shared links for a file that matched an
infringing file's hash, that'd be a huge difference in my mind. Of course, if
they did this, they likely would have had far fewer paying customers...

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thomastjeffery
If they blocked files by hash, users would simply upload slightly corrupt
duplicates, and the situation would quickly get out of hand.

Megaupload's business model was to promote data consolidation (more downloads
of the same file) and to provide good data retention (don't delete users'
data). Now they are seen as evil for favoring that model instead of favoring
heavy-handed DMCA takedowns.

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c3534l
This seems like an awful lot of wasted resources for what is, at worst, a
minor crime that existed in a legal grey area.

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sonnyblarney
The crime was quite sizeable involving millions of dollars, a lot of employees
etc.. It was not so much 'grey' as you can't facilitate the distribution of
copyrighted stuff - and they were brazen about it.

If it were some hacker or kid in a basement, then yes, it would be more
nuanced.

I respect the fact we still need ongoing discussion about the meaning of
copyright beyond our era ... but this guy I think was breaking the law.

I hope he doesn't get one of those 4000-year American style sentences, you
know, where they give you '10 years' for each movie downloaded though ... that
stuff the American prosecutors do is ridiculous.

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ojm
Should Dropbox and other cloud storage vendors also be shut down by the FBI?

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sonnyblarney
The argument could be made for any web site.

Dropbox does not specifically encourage, promote or support the sharing of
licensed content, moreover, they work with authorities where there is a
problem. And of course, their 'boxes' tend not to designed for widespread
public use. They are not hiding out in a jurisdiction wherein they can evade
legal issues.

Obviously the definition for 'the line' that is crossed is going to be
difficult, but it has to be somewhere.

I don't have huge faith that the American legal system is going to do well on
this issue for thus single case, however, it's going to have to work it out
over time.

As cases make it to the Supreme Court, hopefully there will be more clarity.

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thomastjeffery
AFAIK, Megaupload did not promote our encourage sharing of licensed content.
It just filled that niche better than any other site at the time.

Kim Dotcom may have chosen New Zealand for to evade legal issues, but I see
nothing wrong with that. If you don't agree with one nation's laws, that is a
perfectly valid reason to live elsewhere. He didn't just run his business
there, he _lives_ there.

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nimbius
not surprising. We've the expert witness testimony of the RIAA and MPAA.
Unless and until we extradite Kim to the US,we cannot properly dunk him to
complete the tests for witchcraft.

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gst
I'm surprised that he didn't try to relocate back to Germany years ago, as
Germany doesn't extradite its own citizens. Did any of the court orders in New
Zealand prevent him from (legally) leaving the country?

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toomanybeersies
Yes, while extradition proceedings are going on he is barred from leaving the
country, as one would expect.

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wavefunction
I would have sailed away upon the morning tide and let NZ's internal politics
take care of themselves from a safe remove.

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toomanybeersies
Easier said than done.

Where are you going to find a boat? How will you buy it?

Where are you going to sail to? There are exceedingly few countries with no
extradition to the USA.

Who's going to sail the boat? It would be a foolish idea to try and sail
across the ocean with no experience, especially if you have the physique of
Kim Dotcom.

How are you going to access your money, most of which has been frozen?

How are you going to get into the country when you have no passport as it's
been confiscated?

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AFNobody
It wouldn't be the first time someone illegally entered a country or smuggled
something via boat.

And yes, someone like Kim Dotcom has the resources to try.

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guitarbill
“Running” doesn’t make you look great/innocent.

As an onlooker, it is very hard to understand how exactly this is “justice”,
given that he hasn’t been to the US and the US has not been able to prosecute
him under other country’s laws - these are not lawless countries but countries
with robust legal codes and systems.

Every time this goes to court, the US just looks like a bully trying to throw
their weight around.

Either he still has faith in the legal system, or he’s trying to show how
corrupt it is - none of those reflect well on the other parties involved.

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Matsta
His wife and his kids are still in NZ; I imagine that is the main reason why
he wouldn't want to leave NZ.

He still seems to be living comfortably. I see him driving around in various G
Wagons on a regular basis.

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enlightenedfool
The other four minions in the five eyes don't need their own legal system

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mindfulhack
I hope he wins.

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mkhpalm
How could he? He is being forced to play by rules that all of his opponents
are not bound to.

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Nerdfest
He _could_ play by their rules, if he had far more money. Buying policy and
laws ain't cheap.

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sonnyblarney
Google, Amazon, Netflix, Facebook - none of them have been successful by
virtue of some kind of non-market, political influence.

One could argue they avoid breakup by virtue of influence, but that's long
after the fact of 'being successful'.

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senectus1
Is mega.nz still considered somewhat trustworthy atm?

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Raticide
Kim has no part in running it these days and doesn't trust it.

[https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/799275467266105344?lang...](https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/799275467266105344?lang=en)

