
Citymapper is what happens when you understand user experience - ryanwhitney
https://medium.com/@zmh/bye-google-maps-ea3ea10f84dc
======
bonaldi
Citymapper has this bizarre flaw (in London at least) where it relies on
average times to give you journey times.

So, for example, if your train takes 10 minutes to reach your destination,
leaves your local station every 30 minutes and you've just missed one,
CityMapper will show an estimated journey time as 25 minutes (avg wait 15
minutes + 10 min journey), instead of the actual 39.

On multi-train journeys like many Londoners have, that error compounds
quickly, and it can make choosing the fastest route near-impossible. And I
don't know why they do it, because they have all the timetable data (including
live timetables).

~~~
EmilLondon
This isn't a bizarre flaw. We favor routes with higher frequencies, as
typically users don't want to take routes immediately.

(I work on Citymapper's routing.)

~~~
scoot
Thank you for your work on CityMapper. However may I respectfully suggest you
stop developing for a bit, and go out and actually use it for real, 'in the
field'?

Head out the office, pick a spot to get to (say a meeting in another part of
town) and see if you can figure out which route is actually quickest. It's
seldom the one suggested. Trying to figure out the real trip length for
upcoming departures for a number of travel options is a head-wrecker.

I use CityMapper frequently, and I _love_ it. But this 'feature' is
_infuriating!_

~~~
Brakenshire
> see if you can figure out which route is actually quickest

On this question, there's a balance between possible maximum speed, and
reliability. If I want to go to point B, the quickest possible route will
often be made by stringing together a serious of improbable connections. For
instance, the route could rely on taking three infrequent buses, with little
leeway for transfer between one and another, on the assumption that they won't
be slowed down by traffic (or just slow customers, stopping more than normal,
etc). But if an app sends me along this route, and one of the buses is behind
schedule, and I miss the connection, that then becomes a big problem. So there
definitely is good sense in prioritizing frequent bus routes to some degree.

~~~
wrikl
When dealing with (London) tubes and train lines, most of the time it should
be possible to indeed work out which route is actually quickest. I agree that
buses do complicate things.

~~~
Brakenshire
Yeah, I agree it doesn't make sense for train times, where there is a
meaningful, rigid timetable (all jokes about British Rail aside).

------
bhouston
Slow page. Ah, I see. One of the gif's in that page is 24MB:

[https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*rjIGH2VNUxDe...](https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*rjIGH2VNUxDerHiGBSydIA.gif)

And this one is 32MB:

[https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*a7_PF64-SfAd...](https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*a7_PF64-SfAdCLVtVYYDgQ.gif)

Total size of gifs in this page: 149MB.

Is Gfycat embedable? We should encourage its adoption.

~~~
snowwrestler
Gfycat is just a service that provides h.264 video versions of gifs. Yes,
h.264 videos are embeddable. So is WebM, but native support for it is worse
than h.264.

That said, embedded videos will limit your browser compatibility unless there
is a fallback. On the other hand, older browsers are also likely to have
problems with 150MB webpages heavy on javascript.

~~~
untog
That's what's needed - an iframe embed that detects and loads accordingly.

... but you couldn't embed that on Medium, anyway.

~~~
dublinben
You don't need to use an iframe. HTML5 video tags natively support multiple
formats. Between WebM and H.264, you support every major browser.

~~~
untog
But with no inline playing on iPhones.

~~~
MBCook
Some of us consider that a feature. If you go inline then either your video is
distracting and hard to scroll past or tiny and hard to see. Neither of those
is a good experience.

~~~
untog
No matter how you feel, the end result is everyone using GIFs when targeting
iPhone. So you end up downloading much bigger files.

Doesn't seem like a win for anyone.

------
buro9
Google Maps is for car drivers.

CityMapper is for multi-transportation within a few metropolis.

The UX of Google maps for routing when driving is incredible and beats
everyone: Apple, TomTom, Garmin... everyone. Down to showing labels on side
streets "3 minutes slower" allowing you to evaluate every decision you could
make when faced with traffic.

But... for public transport, or mixed transport solutions like crossing a city
when so many external factors are at play... CityMapper wins.

It's not an either/or, and it's not that Google Maps don't understand UX.
Google Maps just has a different focus... the car.

~~~
gknoy
Now if only I could easily set up waypoints on my navigation, so that I can
plan a trip. (Leave in the AM, stop at X in 150 miles, stop at Y or Z in 2
hours, stop at Q for lunch, arrive at destination)

~~~
SixSigma
Oh yes it please. I ride a motorbike and I usually don't want to go on any of
the suggested routes. I have to pick a waypoint, go to that, stop, take my
gloves off, get the phone out of my jacket, pick another waypoint, put my
phone away, put my gloves on, repeat.

The other annoying thing is it uses street names as in "turn right on to Main
Street" but often the streets don't have name boards and there could be two
close together.

Still, first world problems eh?

~~~
smt88
I don't know about the mobile app, but Google Maps on the desktop has
supported multiple waypoints for many years.

Edit: as someone else mentioned, the app does support it.

~~~
SixSigma
I just double checked, in case of update, no such option.

------
josephschmoe
Honestly, the biggest fault of Google Maps is that I can't find something
"along the way" to something, just nearby. I'd be much happier if I could
specify "TGIF's on the way to Alice's house" or "Gas stations along the way to
Las Vegas near the halfway point."

I can't get too mad at it, since I can just zoom out and it'll search from the
center of the map - but it's not very effective if the distances are long or
if I'm using the text interface.

~~~
dwynings
Checkout Waze. It calculates time off your current route.

~~~
pdaddyo
Since Google now own Waze, hopefully these features will be heading to maps
soon.

------
mcphage
It's fantastic that they understand user experience, but they don't seem to
understand that 95%+ of the world doesn't live in 8 specific cities. Google
Maps might be an obnoxious app (it is!) but at least I can use it.

~~~
zo1
" _Google Maps might be an obnoxious app (it is!)_ but at least I can use it."

You know, you're going to have to actually elaborate on that.

~~~
mcphage
Elaborate about which part—Google Maps app being obnoxious? The linked article
makes a strong case for that—common actions are a number of slow steps, the
information that people are actually looking for is missing or difficult to
discern, etc. Or that I can use it? That's because I don't live in one of the
8 cities that Citymapper supports, whereas Google Maps works on, I dunno what
% of the world, but I'm guessing it's pretty high.

~~~
EpicEng
Except it's really not designed for that. It's designed for people who know
where they're going and how they're going to get there. I don't know, I get in
my car, punch in an address, and GMaps does a pretty darn good job of finding
a route. That's what 95% of us want.

------
TD-Linux
OpenStreetMaps has begun to add routing information, and it's becoming very
good lately. It would be nice to see Citymapper work with them, as both sides
could benefit - OpenStreetMap quality in citymapper's supported cities would
improve (though OSM is already quite good in those cities), and citymapper
could gain support for more cities. This is the route MapQuest has gone with
MapQuest Open.

Still, I'm glad to see Google Maps competitors alive and kicking. Google Maps
is one of the main lock-in apps that keeps people inside the closed Google
Play Services ecosystem.

~~~
zo1
" _Google Maps is one of the main lock-in apps that keeps people inside the
closed Google Play Services ecosystem._ "

I can't speak for others. But as someone that tried the Apple "ecosystem"
after being on google, I have a big appreciation for it. A lot of
websites/apps these days use google for single sign-on, pretty much meaning
that I don't have to type my damn login every time I install a new app, etc.

But, on the Ipad, I had to type my password in so many times. And my password
is 25+ characters long, with mixed upper and lower case. Easy on a keyboard,
but on a touch-screen keyboard it is a _PAIN_.

~~~
rational-future
Apple has 99 faults, but your lack of touch typing skills ain't one :)

~~~
zo1
I can touch type, just not on a touch screen :)

------
keehun
Great, but the fact that Citymapper is only available in eight cities makes it
completely useless to those outside of those cities. From this post, however,
it does seem like a very well put together experience.

------
austenallred
Not everyone has the same needs.

When I use Google Maps all I really want is for it to take me from point A to
point B in my car.

I type the name of a place and It loads directions, time, traffic, and guides
me there using the best route possible. One click. Quite literally the best UX
I could imagine.

For most of Google Maps users (the ones who don't live in those 8 cities),
Google Maps is almost perfect. It's not that Google Maps doesn't have a good
UX, it just wasn't built for you.

------
solutionyogi
I love Citimapper! I live in NYC and it's the only app I use for navigation
now. Highlights for me:

1\. Get me Home/Get Me To Work quick links. It takes your current location as
starting point and tells you your options for going home/work.

2\. You can configure it to monitor your subway line during commute time (7AM
to 10AM and 4pm to 6pm) and it will notify you if the subway is delayed for
any reason. I use line 6 which breaks down more often than I want and thanks
to the App, I can take N/Q/R if Line 6 is down.

3\. The way 'Get Me Somewhere' works. In addition to being able to type an
address, you can move the map around to point the destination pin to a
particular point in map. It's hard for me to explain but it works amazingly
well especially in NYC where people often go by cross streets and don't have
the actual street address.

I completely agree with author that Citiymapper has an exceptional UI/UX.

~~~
blutgens
1\. native behaviour in Google Now 2\. native behaviour in Google Now 3\.
native behaviour in Google Now

None of these requires additional configuration, it just does it all
automagically.

~~~
Bud
Nobody knows what Google Now is. It's hidden away in the Google Search app in
iOS (who uses the Google Search app? Nobody I know. You search in a browser.),
accessible only if you happen to know to swipe up from the bottom of the
screen. Because that's a really obvious place for a mapping app to be.

------
xwowsersx
I agree that the UX of Google Maps isn't great, but one thing that might not
be quite fair in the critique is the point about having to enter the origin
destination. On mobile, I'd venture to guess that most of the time you simply
want to get somewhere from where you are right now. So I personally don't see
the origin destination as something that I need quickly accessible. I enter
address, click when it auto-populates, and click to navigate. It's usually 2-3
steps for me on Android and I'm ready to go in 5 or so seconds.

------
darren_
It's nice to see a thoughtful critique/comparison (dev on iOS gmaps here).
Interestingly I don't think anyone who works on iOS maps lives in a
citymapper-enabled city.

Couple of points that might be helpful if the writer reads this:

\- you can switch off the shake-to-send feedback (it even prompts you to do so
if you dismiss it a few times without leaving feedback).

\- I'm not sure how the Citymapper UI in scenario 2 (getting directions from
a->b) differs from using the directions search screen in googlemaps (reached
via the little button with arrows next to the profile button). It presents the
directions search screen immediately and would cut down the time in that
scenario drastically. (But I guess if the person writing the article doesn't
know about that button that's rather a UI smell. I wonder how many people
don't know that our things that don't look like buttons are buttons?)

\- Scenario 5 is also fixed by using the directions non-button, your previous
searches show up in the zero type suggestions there.

I am however going to try and convince the powers that be that Citibike
integration is a must, so I can have a holiday to new york.

~~~
jfim
I don't think adding the integration would be hard. For example, the Montreal
bike system (and other Bixi deployments) has all the information you'd need to
add the integration, including the lat/lon of all stations and their current
bike count[1]. Citibike has a different endpoint[2] and data format, due to
the contractual dispute between Bixi and 8D, so they had a different system
deployed than other Bixi rollouts.

A simple implementation would simply walk between the endpoints of the route
and the closest bike stations. A better integration would also consider more
complicated multimodal routes (walk, bike, metro, bike, walk) and historical
usage patterns to predict empty/full stations.

If it helps convince the PTB that public bike system integration is a must, I
use it as my sole means of transportation during the summer months, relying
exclusively on bike navigation (it's great!), then awkwardly fumbling with
another app to find a bike station near my destination.

[1]
[https://montreal.bixi.com/data/bikeStations.xml](https://montreal.bixi.com/data/bikeStations.xml)
[2]
[http://appservices.citibikenyc.com/data2/stations.php](http://appservices.citibikenyc.com/data2/stations.php)

------
smackfu
I would sure hope that a site that only works in seven cities would be better
than a site that works worldwide. Otherwise what's the point?

~~~
zo1
What about a site that only works in one browser? _(Ok, just trying to be
catchy there. It works on 2 /3 of the browsers I have installed to test
with.)_

------
Jabbles
"OK Google, how do I get to X?"

"It takes 22 minutes to get to X, here are your directions."

I guess that's an unfair comparison. Fair enough about actually using the app
though.

~~~
matthewmacleod
That's not really a comparable experience in a city where you have multiple
modes of transport, many different options for a single journey, and so on.

~~~
teach
But I'd wager that the vast majority of Americans don't live in cities like
that. It sounds like Citymapper is nailing its niche, so for people that fit
that profile it's a much better experience.

But I live in Austin, TX. No one is taking a bus or train or bike anywhere.
Especially not in a hurry. Virtually everyone drives everywhere; with Google
maps on Android I can often do that in a single voice command and zero clicks.

------
Peroni
Citymappers founder, Azmat Yusuf, gave a talk at the Hacker News London meetup
earlier this year and it was categorically one of our most popular talks in a
long time. Unfortunately Azmat (very politely) requested that we not record
his talk for our vimeo page (vimeo.com/hnlondon) which is a shame because it
was incredibly insightful.

If you get the opportunity to attend a talk by Azmat or any of the team, take
it. They are an exceptionally clever and humble bunch and I'm thoroughly
enjoying being a witness to their growth and success.

------
itisbiz
"Scenario 3: What are the trains near me?" is great feature.

Even better would be "Where do trains/buses go from where I am?"

It would be very useful to see all route lines radiating out from my location,
with next times and freq.

This would help understand the multiple ways to get to another location.

One route might get me directly to location, but leave in 15 min.

Another route me get me 2 blocks from location, but leave in 2 min.

------
crazygringo
I use Citymapper to use Citibike, and it has the following big flaws:

\- Reloading the app, it never remembers I was on the biking screen, and
always goes to the main screen. Minor detail, but annoying, and so easy for
them to fix!

\- Every time I move the map even slightly, it removes all bike stations from
the map and queries the API again for a new set of stations, even if the last
request was only five seconds ago. If there's any wireless interference, it
complete destroys the functionality. I mean, cache the station _locations_ at
the very least! And don't hide the old data while waiting for the new data, if
it's less than a couple minutes old.

\- The screen real estate devoted to the map is only ~50%! The bottom third is
taken up by a totally unnecessary textual list of stations, which can't be
hidden

\- And you can't even rotate the map!

Granted, it's a million times better than the default Citibike app. But it's
still got a ways to go to achieve "ideal" UX.

------
rumble_king1
Bye Google Maps? It uses Google Maps...

~~~
chippy
indeed, I was expecting...

"...Hello OpenStreetMap"

~~~
Vik1ng
They could probably do this for the cities in Europe, but the US cities have
still some work to do.

------
EmilLondon
I'm a backend engineer at Citymapper. Just to let everyone know that we're
hiring...
[https://citymapper.com/london/jobs](https://citymapper.com/london/jobs)

~~~
tacticus
Needs more Melbourne already :P

(sorry about the pain and suffering if you do decide to build out melbourne
and look at PTVs API docs)

------
VikingCoder
[https://citymapper.com/](https://citymapper.com/) is down. Google Maps is up.
I don't think I can say "Bye, Google Maps" just yet...

------
djhworld
Citymapper is okay, it sometimes screws up with its notifications feature
though. I live in London and have it set to notify me if my "favourited" tube
lines are suffering problems.

A signal failure happened earlier this week on my line and I received no
notification of it, only finding out when I got to the station.

It's probably an issues to do with Androids background notification system or
something, but I dunno

------
yid
I was in London recently and was astounded at how prevalent Citymapper has
become there. So I'm now taking bets on who will acquire them:

1\. Google --> unlikely, they have a large maps team already, and have
recently gorged on Waze

2\. Apple --> most likely, IMO

3\. Facebook --> who knows why? But probably in the running too.

~~~
smackfu
Google did buy Waze, so they are open to maps acquisitions.

~~~
dpcx
They bought Waze "mostly" for the userbase, but the fact that they have some
of the best traffic data is useful too.

~~~
fidotron
. . . and is interesting as it's almost completely orthogonal to this.

Google's existing offerings fail most spectacularly for knowledgeable people
in urban environments (I cannot overstate how much GM's handling of subways
drives me insane), which is the niche this lot have successfully found. Apple
seem to have a lot of customers in that bracket so they are the better fit.

------
dazbradbury
Feature Request / Suggestion - So I tried the "Share Destination / Meet me
sonewhete" feature the other day and thought this was going to do something
completely different.

How it worked: sent a link to the end location to a friend.

Expected / Hoped for usage: Citymapper would separate who clicked the link
(allow you to add a name perhaps), then show where everyone else was on the
map, and their ETA.

So I can say, let's meet at this place, send the link, and know everyone's
ETA. A bit like latitude, but smarter. Once there, or on my way, I can track
progress.

Sure, people might shout about privacy, but it would be insanely useful and
save constantly being punished for being on time!

Any Citymapper devs out there fancy championing this one?

------
matthewmacleod
Citymapper's UX is really awesome, and I always use it as my example of the
degree to which attention to detail is so absolutely vital in this sort of
app. Like, first-class, best-app-I've-ever-used level of UX.

I'm still not totally sold on their routing algorithm in London, but I'm not
sure exactly what's wrong with it - all I know is it often suggests routes
that no same person would take. It definitely seemed to get a little worse
maybe 6 months or so ago; it's possible it's just been tuned in a way that
doesn't get on with my usage pattern.

~~~
wjoe
I find that it's become a bit worse as I've become more familiar with London.
For someone who doesn't know the city at all it's perfect, but once you know
the tube map and various local details, some of the options do seem a little
odd.

One of the devs posted in this thread that they favour routes with more
frequent services, as people often don't want to travel immediately. I'm not
entirely sure I agree with this thinking in a mobile app, but it could explain
some of the less optimal routes.

~~~
jarek
Yeah, it doesn't really get all the tiny things that you have to know the
system to know. For example, on trips where multiple lines travel on the same
tracks, the average wait calculation looks to use only one line's frequency
(Liv St to Edgware Rd, "5 min avg"). Time to change between lines at
interchange stations also feels unrealistic (1 minute Northern-Bank to
Victoria at Euston and 2 minutes Victoria to Piccadilly at Green Park?).

------
HugoDias
Btw, Citymapper website doesn't load in Firefox Aurora, v33.0a2 :/
([https://citymapper.com/apps](https://citymapper.com/apps))

~~~
jarek
I found that occasionally their Javascript won't load, at least in Firefox.
Usually works after a reload or two.

------
gburt
This looks great. It needs more coverage and I don't think the silly options
are a good selling feature for a real map app. It's just more visual clutter.

------
dalek2point3
"Turn-by-turn directions"

One of the reasons Im guessing it doesnt have this is because the Google Maps
API prohibits building turn-by-turn applications quite directly. If only they
trusted OSM, they could have this up and running pretty quickly.

------
omouse
I don't understand why they can't use Google Maps or OpenStreetMaps or some
other API to grab city data for other cities. It only covers NYC, London,
Barcelona and a few other cities. Nearly useless for anyone else in the world!

------
kin
If I hit "snap to location", Google decides it needs to auto-zoom to a default
zoom-level. It's annoying to have to re-zoom to whatever zoom level I'm
actually interested in.

------
pthreads
Meh! I find these features just incremental improvements. Most apps these days
quickly catchup on UI/UX features. Even OSes are mostly the same these days.

------
hnriot
I wanted to try it but it doesn't seem to support San Francisco! What kind of
app doesn't start with San Francisco, let alone not even include it :)

------
serve_yay
Yes! I've really been wanting something like this, maps apps are only good at
doing one thing at a time and not good for comparing.

------
alttab
I havent ever tried Citymapper. That said, if Google Maps re-routes me one
more time during my transit I will kill an innocent puppy.

------
eli
It would be interesting to compare to Ridescout, which seems like a more
direct competitor than Google Maps.

------
bundaegi
Anyone know what screen recording software might have been used to create the
gifs/vids in this post?

------
robot
I hate the popup in google maps when I search for a location. It takes up
1/3rd of the screen.

------
farmdve
And yet Google maps has mapped the world, has my little town mapped,
Citymapper is but a fraction of what Google maps has done.

------
qxmat
How do I buy you a beer?

------
blutgens
I suppose when you're on an iOS device it doesn't take much improvement in the
UX department to get you fired up.

~~~
lern_too_spel
The ability to just drop a widget on the home screen that instantly brings up
directions home or to work (or any other destination you want) in the
preferred mode of transportation would blow this guy's mind. 10 seconds? How
about 1 second. That's been around since _2009_.

Now, Google Now automatically shows directions to these places together with
expected travel time on preferred mode of transport without any configuration
at all. 10 seconds? How about 0 seconds?

