
Native Virtualization For macOS - izik_e2
http://www.veertu.com
======
LeoPanthera
Last time I tried Veertu it was _crazy_ buggy. I emailed them a bunch of bug
reports which, to their credit, they did acknowledge. It will be interesting
to see if they're fixed.

Edit: No, they're not. The Ubuntu image, on my iMac, just flickers its window
horribly and is unusable.

Edit 2: There are some improvements. The Debian image now boots! It boots into
the installer, which is interesting. Doing a full GUI install right now.

Edit 3: The same flickering problem affects Debian after a GUI install. Shame.

This is a video I made earlier, demonstrating the problem:
[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4419997/Flicker.mp4](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4419997/Flicker.mp4)

~~~
marora
ubuntu 16.04.1 works fine. Very good graphical experience. Have you tried it?

~~~
LeoPanthera
Yes, that's what I was referring to. It seems to be hardware specific. On some
Macs it's fine, on others (particularly newer ones, it seems) its unusable.

~~~
izik_e2
It is interesting, are you using the latest version from the App Store?

~~~
LeoPanthera
Yes.

------
mthoms
Okay so it says "free" on the App Store. But the App store says there is
$39.99 "Premium" version available.

I'm either an idiot or there is no obvious way to find out how the free
version is crippled (without downloading and playing around with it). Nothing
on the App store listing and nothing even on their website (!)

I'm so sick of these scummy tricks. Just be upfront with your value
proposition and I'll either give you my money or I won't. Don't waste my time.

~~~
api
It's a trial that lets you install a number of OSes from pre-built images.
It's $39 to unlock the ability to install from ISOs or import from Parallels,
etc.

But I agree. Better to just charge for the damn thing.

~~~
oddevan
They have a version that is just $40 for the whole thing called "Veertu for
Business". But on top of that, $40 is a lot to pay for an app sight unseen, so
they wanted to have a way of offering a "free trial" or test mode for free.
They are VERY upfront about what the whole price is, and it's not a hidden
ongoing charge. This is the best use of in-app purchases IMO.

Though to be fair, I've got an iOS app with the exact same business model, so
I'm biased. :)

~~~
mthoms
>They are VERY upfront about what the whole price is

You're kidding right? It doesn't mention the price _anywhere_ on the site (but
it does say "Download for free at the app store" front and center). In any
other business that'd be considered a bait and switch.

There is a vague mention of the premium version in a single paragraph.
Elsewhere they appear to go way out of their way _not_ to mention it:

 _Developers can download various Linux distributions from Veertu Cloud Image
Library and run VMs in few minutes, for no charge. Alternatively, they can
also setup Windows VMs with ISO files. Windows 7 and higher version are
supported. Users can also import existing VM images from VirtualBox, Fusion
and Parallels._

That's weasel wording, plain and simple.

I agree though, it's better than a subscription pricing model. But to be
honest I have no real quarrel with the model itself anyways - I just think
they should be up front about the offer.

------
DanielDent
I bought Veertu through the Mac app store on an early 2009 MacBook Pro. The
CPU instructions used for native virtualization are not enabled on the
machine. Despite not being compatible with the machine on which I was
purchasing, and despite not having documentation on the app store purchase
page about the limitations, it let me buy the app - which refused to function.
When I requested a refund - after trying multiple times through Apple's
horrific broken iTunes refund process - they denied the refund without
explanation as to why they did not deem me worthy of a refund for the
defective product they sold me.

Possibly if I had the time to spend hours phoning and finding someone to
listen I could have gotten a refund.

My takeaway from the experience was a reminder that I was a terrible person
for supporting the apple app store business model - a model which inches
closer to being mandatory for developers every day.

~~~
LeoPanthera
I can't explain why you didn't get a refund, but there is a free version of
Veertu you can try first, to make sure it works.

~~~
DanielDent
But it's crippled. I didn't want to waste my time evaluating a product other
than the one which was interesting to me.

~~~
coldtea
Well, seems like you ended up wasting even more time AND money.

------
binaryanomaly
The lean approach is interesting - I like.

Unfortunately veertu is way behind Parallels and VMWare in terms of features,
compatibility, comfort, etc. I wouldn't recommend it for productive workloads,
yet.

------
RantyDave
It's a trap! Also, VirtualBox is a _lot_ better than you remember it.

~~~
NEDM64
Doesn't use the native and fast hypervisor.

~~~
LeoPanthera
The native hypervisor doesn't support connecting USB devices to the VM,
though.

~~~
coldtea
Web (and other) developers usually don't connect USB devices to the VM anyway,
through.

~~~
coldtea
I'm not sure why the downvotes. Do web developers using VMs for development
connect USB devices to them?

Does the majority even run something like vagrant linux image with a GUI and
mouse?

~~~
seabrookmx
I don't think the downvotes were warranted. That said, I will be devils
advocate here. I tend to develop on multiple machines, some of them windows..
so I like having a consistent experience. Jetbrains tools on a Linux desktop
(in a VM on each host) offer that. I then keep my working git repos on a USB
stick and mount them into the VM.

There's ways to work around that though.. such as host the USB over SMB and
then mount the share inside of the VM.. or use a cloud service of some kind..
but it's a bit more clunky.

USB passthrough seems like a basic feature of a hypervisor IMO.

------
r3w
Last January [1] there was a report of Veertu violating QEMU's GPL license.
There seem to be quite a few users in this thread, could anyone confirm them?

[1] [https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-
devel/2016-01/msg057...](https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-
devel/2016-01/msg05730.html)

~~~
marora
I am from Veertu. We don't have GPL code in our hypervisor. We have BSD And
LGPL, and if you are interested in the source code, we are in the process of
open sourcing our core hypervisor.

~~~
r3w
How do you get the source to the LGPL components?

~~~
izik_e2
As part of the process of open sourcing the core hypervisor we are updating
the site with the lgpl library sources.

~~~
acathrow
It's about time, Veertu has been using a lot of LGPL code without attribution
or any visible attempts to comply with LGPL license requirements for the many
components used. Hopefully you guys did a true clean room implementation of
the GPL components of QEMU.

------
nwrk
Happy Veertu user + plus nice vagrant integration [0]

The performance is on par with native Docker for OSX and for sure faster than
VirtualBox / VMWARE.

[0] [https://veertu.com/knowledgebase/vagrant-setup-
instructions/](https://veertu.com/knowledgebase/vagrant-setup-instructions/)

~~~
seabrookmx
That's because "native" docker for OS X uses the same built-in Apple
hypervisor under the hood to host the Linux kernel.

Virtualizing Linux in Veertu and then installing Docker on it is basically the
same thing.

------
sscarduzio
downloaded ubuntu gnome 16.04 and it's hogging my CPU really badly. VMWare is
way more light weight than this, at the moment. Lots of work to do.

------
bluedino
How does this work, being able to be downloaded from the app store and all?

~~~
LeoPanthera
It uses Hypervisor.framework, much like xhyve does, the Mac port of bhyve.

[https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Driver...](https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/DriversKernelHardware/Reference/Hypervisor/)

