
“Learn C the Hard Way” is no longer available for free - striking
https://learncodethehardway.org/c/
======
AdmiralAsshat
If memory serves, the web version was always sort of an "alpha". The book now
has a physical print edition, so I guess he wants that to take priority.

Kind of a bummer, but fortunately I already worked through the book when it
was in alpha and saved a copy of all of my exercise solutions in case I need
to refer back to them in the future.

EDIT: Looking at an Archive page reinforces my view on this:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20150203094342/http://c.learncode...](http://web.archive.org/web/20150203094342/http://c.learncodethehardway.org/book)

"This is the in-progress free version of Learn C the Hard Way."

So my understanding is we were basically beta-testing his book for him and
providing feedback in exchange for his making it free. He's finished it,
smoothed it out, and finalized it with some additions and videos, so now he
wants money for it. Seems fair enough to me.

I've seen the physical edition at Barnes and Noble a few times. I might thumb
through it one day and see if there's enough content beyond what I pulled from
the alpha to be worth buying.

------
krat0sprakhar
I just bought this book two days ago and I'm loving it so far. Apart from the
last few chapters that are now complete, you also get videos of Zed discussing
the code and exercises.

For the insane amount of work Zed's put in the material, I consider it a very
worthwhile purchase. Given the tremendous amount of value I've derived from
Zed's other free books, parting away with the $30 is the least I could do to
support his efforts.

Thanks Zed for this excellent resource!

------
Narann
The one in "Stuff that should be avoided"?:
[http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Books#Stuff_that_should_be_avo...](http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Books#Stuff_that_should_be_avoided)

~~~
lj3
IMHO, that's the best endorsement for the book I've ever seen. Zed had a knack
for pissing off people who spent too much time in theory and too little time
building things.

I don't blame him for finally charging for it either. It's a good book and
giving it away for free got him nothing but harassment and libel.

update: Beej's Guide to C[0] is also on that list.

[0]:
[http://beej.us/guide/bgc/output/html/singlepage/bgc.html](http://beej.us/guide/bgc/output/html/singlepage/bgc.html)

~~~
zouhair
This is the reason they gave to avoid it:

Too many factual problems and a presentation that gets you to do things
wrongly before being shown how to do it correctly, and not even always
then.[0]

[0]:
[http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Main_Page#Stuff_that_should_be...](http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Main_Page#Stuff_that_should_be_avoided)

~~~
qwertyuiop924
Yeah, but this is ##c: when they say "factual problems," they mean that at
some point Zed said that a function took an array as an argument, or that the
book didn't match up to the letter of the C standard. And "doing things wrong"
means not checking the return value of every single syscall you use.

~~~
mixedCase
>And "doing things wrong" means not checking the return value of every single
syscall you use.

There are people who think not checking every syscall is a good idea?

~~~
qwertyuiop924
No, of course not, but they're a bit extreme about it.

------
jorgecastillo
[https://www.gnu.org/software/gnu-c-manual/gnu-c-
manual.html](https://www.gnu.org/software/gnu-c-manual/gnu-c-manual.html)

This is my favorite C related documentation online. The first book on C I read
was a PDF of K&R, I liked it. I used to think the paperback was way too
expensive. Instead I bought C Primer Plus, never read it. Few books capture
the gist of a language as well as K&R in as little space. Though Modern Perl
and Programming in Lua also come to mind. If they ever make an updated version
of K&R I would definitely buy it.

~~~
vram22
>I used to think the paperback was way too expensive.

How much was it?

~~~
jorgecastillo
Around $50 USD in Amazon, like today. I just thought it was too much for the
quantity of pages. But really, few programming books are as good as K&R. I
still think the editorial is particularly greedy when it comes to this book.
Still I don't recommend any C book, other than K&R.

~~~
AlexeyBrin
If you want to buy a cheap printed version search on abebooks.com. They
usually have _international editions_ at competitive prices. I used to buy all
my college textbooks from there.

------
latenightcoding
I really enjoyed reading this book when I was re-learning C. I don't
understand why It gets so much hate, the book gets you coding complex programs
in a couple of days, unlike other C books where you have to read 300+ pages to
finally start learning about pointers.

~~~
banachtarski
What C book has 300+ pages before you learn about pointers?

~~~
SyneRyder
I went and checked - the book I first learned from, "Using C" by Clint Hicks,
didn't introduce pointers until page 232. Not quite 300+, but not too far off
either.

------
satysin
I read it a while back and didn't think it was very good. I wouldn't pay $30
for it IMHO. There are better books out there.

~~~
tptacek
I don't really give too much of a shit about this particular book, but this
logic is, to me, amazing.

It's a book about programming --- a very specific kind of programming. The
only reason for normal people to read is to acquire some new set of skills.

I am having a hard time thinking of any --- literally any --- new C
programming skill I would value at less than $30.

That doesn't mean you can't reasonably warn people off a book! It might not be
worth the time to read. It might be totally inaccurate, or fail to communicate
any new skills. But otherwise, "I wouldn't pay $30 for it" wouldn't make sense
even if the book were just 5 pages long.

~~~
appleflaxen
it does if there is a better book available on the market for $20.

~~~
tptacek
If I offered you a BMW M5 for $2000, would your first thought be, "hmm, I
should check to see if someone is selling the same car for $1800"?

Programming book preferences are fine, useful even! Complaints about book
_prices_ are silly. Take your career more seriously.

I guess my point is just: pretty much all technical books are fantastically,
comically underpriced.

~~~
parennoob
> If I offered you a BMW M5 for $2000, would your first thought be, "hmm, I
> should check to see if someone is selling the same car for $1800"?

Firstly, probably yes. If you're selling way below the market price, there's
something wrong with your BMW. But leaving that aside...BMW M5s are not nearly
not as easy to produce or copy as books. I could probably generate a
(horrible) learn to program in C book in a matter of days and put it up for
sale for $30. I would appreciate someone telling the world "Don't buy this,
it's a bad idea."

Now I maybe you have already read the book and know it's not particularly bad,
or you think Zed's reputation as an author is good, or something else like
that – and it's fine to offer those as rationales for buying the book. But the
argument that " _Any book about C is likely to change your_ career* and you're
quibbling over $30?" is a terrible argument IMO. The likely thing that happens
with the average C book is that you read the first 10 pages, can't grasp some
point that the author is particularly bad at explaining, and wander off to
watch a Youtube video or something.

Now if your book is so engaging that it prevents this sort of attention
wandering, _that_ is a book where you can reliably present this argument. One
example (from my perspective) are the _Feynman Lectures on Physics_. I can
read them for ages and ages without getting bored. If you or anyone else in
the thread knows about _that_ kind of C book, let me know. K&R (surprisingly)
is the closest I've come.

~~~
tptacek
Just to be clear/pedantic:

If I offered you a $100,000 car for $2000, your first instinct would be to see
if you could get it _cheaper_?

~~~
appleflaxen
You are saying the value to the buyer is far, for more than the cover price.

I agree completely; it's a really important point.

But not everyone on HN is a professional programmer, and there are students,
self-improvers, and individuals in other countries for whom the sentiment of
"just buy it; it's sufficiently valuable to you" is tempered by the
opportunity cost (yes; the opportunity cost of $10) and the need to get the
best value/dollar.

This is probably why poverty is so self-sustaining: because you have to burn
ridiculous effort over trivial nonsense. Your thin budget gets even thinner,
and now you're stuck.

------
MatekCopatek
Ironically, the first customer testimonial I got on that page started with
"Thanks so much for putting your book online."

I generally like stuff by Zed E. Shaw, though. Is there an official statement
about this? Will he be making other books unavailable too?

------
sjroot
I actually emailed the author about this. He is in the process of revising the
site for C. It will be available for free, or so he told me.

------
partycoder
For C++, there is a book called Accelerated C++ by Koenig and Moo. It was very
enjoyable to work through it.

~~~
petercooper
Their _Ruminations on C++_ book formed out of Koenig's columns is also
excellent, if anyone is looking for an extra read. I have it on my desk right
now :-)

~~~
partycoder
How would you compare it to, for instance, Meyers' series of books?

~~~
petercooper
Meyers is undoubtedly the master. Koenig certainly gives his own slant on
things though and is enjoyable to read.

------
awkward_yeti
I've seen this referenced few times as a resource for learning C beyond the
basics.

And my question for anyone who has gone through it, Is it worth the tag ?

------
kristofferR
Wasn't this partially crowdsourced?

------
jrcii
From what I've seen the author sounds like an asshole that can't take
criticism so I'm not sure I'd patronize his work either way.

------
segmondy
[https://github.com/davout/lcthw](https://github.com/davout/lcthw)

it's still available for free in other locations, just search.

~~~
icebraining
Yes, you can usually find illegal copies of recent books. HN tends to frown on
such links, though.

