
Turning minor-key songs major - renaudg
http://theweek.com/articles/467109/sad-songs-made-happy-amazing-art-turning-minorkey-songs-major
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adrianh
Shameless plug for my own minor version of the Beatles' "Blackbird" — my own
guitar playing mashed up with the original Paul McCartney vocal (which I
extracted from the Beatles recording by abusing the stereo spectrum).

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAb9V08zcBE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAb9V08zcBE)

~~~
ageitgey
For those who don't know, Adrian is both an excellent jazz/acoustic guitarist
AND the co-creator of Django :-)

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_mhr_
Ah, that would explain the inspiration for the name.

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Nition
A classic of this sort is this Star Wars major/minor swap:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ppoRHBtwCY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ppoRHBtwCY)

No editor magic, just some really good live Electone playing.

~~~
microcolonel
It's like hearing the other side of the music. The majorized version of the
Imperial March sounds the way the empire must think of themselves to justify
their actions.

~~~
rangibaby
You'll like the soundtrack to Tie Fighter. It has plenty of heroic imperial
music (and a Star Wars theme that would have been perfect for Rogue One!)

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WorldMaker
There are some interesting musical nerd breakdowns of the music that did make
it into Rogue One on YouTube. Giacchino only had a couple weeks to put that
soundtrack together, and did a remarkable job given the huge time crunch.
Because Giacchino is himself a music nerd, there are some interesting
major/minor swaps in it from well known Star Wars leitmotifs.

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renaudg
It may be worth clarifying that these are _not_ covers (which would be
musically interesting, but not technically impressive like what we have here)

It's likely that most of these versions are not even reconstructed from the
original multi-tracks : it's possible to get this result with nothing more
than the original song audio + editing in Melodyne.

This is of course related to yesterday's story about Auto-Tune
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15483145](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15483145)),
of which Melodyne is a more capable competitor these days.

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_mhr_
Are there papers anywhere on how Melodyne works?

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_mhr_
I found the Melodyne patents (translated from German into English):
[https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininvent...](https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=ininventor:"Peter+Neubäcker")

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dizzystar
I'm so conflicted on these at times. I mainly dislike the original title: "Sad
songs made happy."

There is nothing that says a major key _must_ be "happy" and there is nothing
that says a minor key _must_ be "sad." It's also interesting to note that
google claims that Losing My Religion is in the key of C Major:

[https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=key%20of%20losin...](https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=key%20of%20losing%20my%20religion)

The chords are, according to Wikipedia, Em, Am, D, G.

~~~
emerged
Ionian is not the only Major mode, and aeolian is not the only minor mode. For
the former you also have Lydian and Mixolydian. For the latter there are
Dorian, Phrygian and the rarely used Locrian.

~~~
meggar
Mixo is usually considered dominant instead of major. There's also Lydian #6
for those times when Lydian just isn't major enough.

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fmihaila
How about no key?

[https://youtu.be/4niz8TfY794?t=278](https://youtu.be/4niz8TfY794?t=278)

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peterburkimsher
Can someone recommend a good tutorial for key shifts in Melodyne? I wish I
could learn how to do this for other songs.

I'm also interested in chord progressions. I wish I could tag my iTunes
library with the Roman numerals for each song. But I don't know of any
automatic way to do that.

Read the SuspiciouslySimilarSongs list, or watch the 4 chord song by Axis of
Awesome to know what I'm talking about. The pop-punk chord progression is
famous, but there are other songs that sound similar.

(e.g. Hall & Oates - Maneater, and Stevie Wonder - Part Time Lover, or Linkin
Park - New Divide and The Offspring - Gone Away).

~~~
fenomas
You might want to check out HookTheory -
[https://www.hooktheory.com/trends](https://www.hooktheory.com/trends)

It's a big database of songs and their progressions, with a lot of other stuff
(a snazzy composing app, a set of music theory ebooks which I've not read,
etc).

~~~
peterburkimsher
Thanks! It's good, and is correctly showing some similar songs.

HookTheory doesn't use Roman Numeral analysis though. I like that language,
because it's easy to compare songs that are modulated to different keys. For
example, Forget December - Something Corporate (D F C1 G) and New Divide -
Linkin Park (Em G D A) are both ii-IV-I-V.

[http://vjmanzo.com/clicheprogressions/index.php?title=Catego...](http://vjmanzo.com/clicheprogressions/index.php?title=Category:ii_IV_I_V)

HookTheory says that Fm Ab Eb Bb in the key of Eb is also like Closing Time -
Semisonic. But vjmanzo's site correctly notes that it's shifted over 2 places:
Closing Time is I-V-ii-IV instead of ii-IV-I-V.

I've figured out how to get the real notes out of an MP3 using Melodyne, which
is how I found the notes for Forget December. But I had to search online for
the key, and then look up the Roman Numerals in a table. I wish I could just
throw in an MP3 and get a Roman Numeral chord progression out of the other
side.

~~~
fenomas
Hey, sorry for the late reply. HookTheory _most definitely_ uses Roman Numeral
notation. In the link I posted, change the "Key" pulldown to "Rel", and then
you can choose each numeral in sequence.

Or, for example, to see all the songs HookTheory thinks use ii-IV-I-V, the
link would be:

[https://www.hooktheory.com/trends#node=2.4.1.5&key=rel](https://www.hooktheory.com/trends#node=2.4.1.5&key=rel)

> HookTheory says that Fm Ab Eb Bb in the key of Eb is also like Closing Time
> - Semisonic. But vjmanzo's site correctly notes that it's shifted over 2
> places: Closing Time is I-V-ii-IV instead of ii-IV-I-V.

I don't know what you're referring to here, but it sounds like HookTheory was
just suggesting similarities. HT's actual entry for the song you're referring
to is here, and has the same progression you mentioned.

[https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/semisonic/closing-...](https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/semisonic/closing-
time)

How this relates to your link I have no idea, it shows 404 for me.

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jasonmp85
These pieces make me viscerally angry. It's grating like Neil Cicierega but
without the glee in doing it. Jeeeez.

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tmm
I guess I'm not very good with music. These all sound basically the same as
the originals to me.

~~~
crispinb
You'd probably hear the differences played side-by-side. There are few truly
'tone-deaf' people. Music is much like anything else -- capabilities
(including memory for a song's tonality & chords) are increased by interest,
exposure to a wider range, close study, etc.

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MycroftJones
The one that really did make a dramatic difference is notable because it
didn't have the human voice involved. I'm talking about the Star Wars theme.
In that one, the difference between major and minor was dramatic. But for
vocal music, the emotional cues seem to override the major/minor distinction.

~~~
crispinb
To me all of them sounded dramatically different. Then again I'm a musician of
sorts. I'm sure there are all sorts of variables, including what sort of
music(s) a person typically listens to.

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modosc
my favorite is the happy version of "careless whisper":

[https://soundcloud.com/majorvsminor/careless-whisper-
george](https://soundcloud.com/majorvsminor/careless-whisper-george)

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mathgenius
It's a pretty standard classical music trick to switch from minor key to major
(or vice-versa), just for variation purposes, and repeat the theme in the
major key. So this is what this sounds like to me, like Beethoven got a hold
of REM.

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code_duck
I have done this manually on guitar for years, playing around. I would play
major key 'Bad' somewhat differently than that.

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ereyes01
When you change early 80s thrash metal from minor key to major key, you get
something that's pretty close to punk rock. Metallica's Kill 'Em All in major
key is a fun listen:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98v54fPYxU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98v54fPYxU)

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ddinh
One other interesting example: Mahler's first symphony, third movement
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5A5tFyXQio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5A5tFyXQio))
which incorporates a minor-ized version of the classic (major) Frere Jacques
tune as a motif.

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dharma1
Giant Steps in C. Jazz musos will appreciate

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYzYpb1MY0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYzYpb1MY0)

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kansface
The Nirvana sounds so utterly bizarre to me - I suppose because I don't hear
the original as tonal to begin with.

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moomin
There’s no love song finer but how strange the change from major to minor
every time we say goodbye.

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gpvos
This is so 2013.

