
The Lie Behind the Lie Detector [pdf] - WestCoastJustin
https://antipolygraph.org/lie-behind-the-lie-detector.pdf
======
tokenadult
From this very interesting book-length article: "Professors William G. Iacono
and David T. Lykken of the University of Minnesota provided important comments
on our chapter on polygraph countermeasures." Professor Iacono is an
occasional, always thoughtful, participant in the "journal club" on behavior
genetics in the University of Minnesota Department of Psychology that I join
during each school year. The late Professor Lykken himself wrote a whole book
on why polygraph examinations are a bad idea,

[http://www.amazon.com/A-Tremor-In-The-
Blood/dp/0306457822](http://www.amazon.com/A-Tremor-In-The-
Blood/dp/0306457822)

and his writings helped convince the Minnesota legislature not to allow
polygraph results for any judicial or employment-screening purpose in the
state. It's ludicrous that the federal government and some state judicial
systems still rely so much on such an inherently unreliable, unvalidated
technology.

"We are especially grateful to retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent Dr. Drew
C. Richardson for his suggestions regarding the second edition of this book."

Yes, after being burned by false polygraph results many times, SOME (but not
enough) federal law enforcement agents are recognizing that polygraph
examinations are useless for finding the truth.

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EllaMentry
I would have thought this would be common sense by now - don't submit to a
polygraph ever - it cannot help you, only hurt you. And don't submit to any
kind of interrogation without a talking to a lawyer first. Relevant video:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc)

~~~
thret
It can still help you if you are actually guilty and know you can pass it.

~~~
jbjohns
No, because the people who administer them know that they're pretty much
worthless for establishing guilt/innocence so if they don't get the damaging
report they want they'll just throw it out.

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1337biz
Bruce Schneider had a short comment linking to an article of FEDs targeting
companies that expose the polygraph sham. The comments are worth reading:

[http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/08/feds_target_po...](http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/08/feds_target_pol.html)

[http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199590/seeing-
threats-...](http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/199590/seeing-threats-feds-
target-instructors.html)

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rdtsc
> While DoD claims that “[t]he purpose of the [Counterintelligence- Scope
> Polygraph] Program is to deter and detect espionage, sabotage, and
> terrorism,” it seems that the only spies, saboteurs, or terrorists who will
> be deterred or detected by it are those who are stupid enough to make
> admissions.

Bingo. Polys are used to catch gullible people who admit mistakes. Probably
the people you want on your team (unless this is a counter-intelligence unit),
because they are honest enough to admit mistakes and are forthcoming. Unless
they made horrible mistake worthy of termination, using polys will eventually
leave only perfect people who are honest, make not mistake and have a
predictable physiological stress response to interview and also liars and
psychopaths. I posit that there is a large percentage (larger than average) of
psychopaths in intelligence agencies, if anything simply due to the routine
application of the polygraph interview filter.

It is funny that in light of Alrich's disaster, they intensified polygraph
testing, while it clearly showed that he was passing his polygraphs without a
problem (because he was trained by KGB to do it).

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zeteo
This may seem odd but mostly harmless for the public, until you realize the
polygraph is an important tool among the NSA's much-vaunted anti-abuse
safeguards [1].

[1] [http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/23/nsa-officers-
someti...](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/23/nsa-officers-sometimes-
spy-on-love-interests/)

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dthunt
The polygraph is a stress interview tactic, full stop. It's the bad cop in the
room.

That's why the very first part of the polygraph if where they are
'calibrating', and inevitably announce that the polygraph machine is working,
but only sometimes offer to show you 'proof' that it works.

An skeptic would do well to announce as much, announce that she is a 23-ton
hippopotamus named Wilfred, consumed a gallon of paint-thinner before coming
to the interview, and ask to see the output after that extraordinary claim by
the interviewer.

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moocowduckquack
So, if you force a polygraph engineer to submit to a polygraph test and then
during the test ask them if the machine can accurately detect lies, would that
cause a loop in the fabric of causality and could you then cook a burger with
it?

~~~
gizmo686
Couldn't the engineer just lie? The test won't detect it, and the engineer
knows that.

Also, no one is claiming that the polygraph actually determines the truth of
what someone is saying, only that it determines if the person believes what
they are saying to be the truth; and most polygraph examiners likely believe
that the polygraph works.

~~~
westicle
See also:

Homeopaths Acupuncturists Most broad-stroke psychometric testing

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cafard
The more conscientious one is, the better chance of flunking the polygraph.
Sociopaths pass with no trouble.

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obtino
It's fairly easy to beat a polygraph test if you have access to certain
benzodiazepines. One of them being Klonopin (clonazepam).

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jhart3333
from Slashdot: "...I'm a co-founder of AntiPolygraph.org (we suggest using Tor
to access the site)..."

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akandiah
The farcical nature of the polygraph is satirized best by this scene from The
Wire:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ5aIvjNgao](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ5aIvjNgao)

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pasbesoin
The phrase that comes to mind: Cargo cult security.

There are effective means of security. Perhaps critical to understanding them
is that transparency is not anathema to them. Rather, it plays a crucial role.

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Snowda
Relevant The Wire
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ5aIvjNgao](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ5aIvjNgao)

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sh2eyas
Great document. Thanks for sharing. :)

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kashnikov
step 1) get diagnosed with ADD\ADHD step 2) take large amounts of legally
prescribe stimulants

~~~
mistercow
That will not help. To pass the polygraph test, you need to create a large
difference between the "control" questions and the "relevant" questions.
Raising your baseline will not improve your chances.

