
How Wavee Makes Money: The Math Behind The Startup - ajaimk
http://www.ajaimk.com/2010/05/01/how-wavee-makes-money-the-math-behind-the-startup/
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jat850
The difficulty with this (and any other sites it resembles - quibids, for
example) is that there is absolutely no good reason to believe that there
aren't bots behind the scenes driving up the bids.

As an exercise in curiosity one day I watched a few auctions on quibids for
about 45 minutes - with a number of them, immediately after a bid was placed
by what may have been a "real" user, nearly instantly another user - always
the same one - placed another bid.

After a time watching this, I began counting the number of bids placed (at 60
cents per bid, which is quibids rate), the questionable bidder placed over 300
bids in the span of 45 minutes - each time in immediate response to someone
else's bid.

The item in question was a $100 gift card from Target. At 300 bids (60 cents
each), that was $180.00 - grossly in excess of the value of the card itself.

Yes, it could be claimed that this was just a very dumb bidder, but the speed
and rate at which they were entering bids was nearly unbelievable.

The auction ended at $15.40. At one cent increments, that was 1540 bids - at
60 cents each. Quibids made 924 + 15.40 - $100 for that card. Sick.

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clavalle
There is no reason to think that the bots are from the site itself (though, no
reason to think they are not, either). It seems to me that it would be almost
trivial to bot this up...but then you have a bot war trying to get the last
possible profitable bid -- or at least one that the bot programmer is
comfortable with.

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mikeklaas
Yes there is good reason to think that. An outsider would have to pay .75c/bid
to run the bot, which is lunacy.

A bot run by wavee would pay nothing

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blehn
This type of auction model is really just a brilliant scam. It's 100 people
subsidizing the cost of the item for one person. So, one person gets a great
deal, 100 people throw their money away, and Wavee brings in profits that may
be even greater than selling the item at MSRP.

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moe
_may be even greater than selling the item at MSRP_

Orders of magnitude greater, look at one of the finished games and do the
math.

It's quite an old scam, first described in 1971 according to Wikipedia;
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_auction>

The first mainstream'ish implementation I know is swoopoo.com (2008). Since
then a large number of clones have popped up, likely motivated by the fact
that, for some reason, gambling laws in many countries don't seem to cover
this scheme.

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pak
Do gambling laws in the US really not cover dollar auctions? For some reason I
always thought such laws would be why every promotional sweepstakes in the
States, e.g. McDonald's Monopoly or Coke bottle codes, etc. have a rule in
fine print about "No purchase necessary to enter. To enter, send a self
addressed envelope to... " etc. so it could be argued the sweepstakes is not
pay-to-enter. Even then, such promotionals usually have further notes about
not being able to enter in three or four out of the fifty states.

It would seem regulation would be desirable for such auction sites, since the
consumer has to place a significant about of trust in the auctioneer not to
bid up his own products to make more money, or throw non-profitable auctions
to a self-owned account... the end-user currently has no practical recourse if
this happens.

Hopefully grellas or another IAAL can throw in some knowledge.

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jamesshamenski
bigdeal.com does this too. TechCrunch sponsored their jump into America and
ultimately pulled out. It's super confusing for people and 99% of bidders get
screwed.

The reason why bids happen so fast is that they over bid a high amount and not
the next increment. And those super bidders usually have 'won' bids in a
previous auction thus receiving a discount on the bid value.

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clavalle
In essence a sniper auction where only one person who paid to bid actually
gets the item. Is this still legal?

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mst
I'm not entirely sure it's a lot different to ebay bid sniping with multiple
contestants, except for the fact that it's all automated and the profit margin
is centralised with the auction house itself.

Of course, that doesn't mean that said centralisation is legal.

But I think my only real disagreement with their existence is that they aren't
covered by gambling regulations. As a slightly weird form of gambling,
presented clearly to the public as such (and regulated as such), I don't
believe I'd have any objection to them.

Sadly, borderline misrepresentation of the truth is not illegal and probably
couldn't effectively be made so.

 _shrug_ one way or another a fool and his money will be separated - the
important thing is to make sure he enjoys the process. Value for money can
come in excitement/fun as well as goods.

(why, yes, I'm feeling cynical today, why did you ask?)

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wrs
Just to confuse you further, they auction off "bid bundles" (e.g., 300
credits, worth $225, just sold for $7.23). So they're even making tons of
money from their own virtual things.

