
Uber Suspends Its Ride-Sharing Service in Spain Following a Court Ruling - mparramon
http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/30/fiz-pop-ban/
======
Someone
AFAIK, this is a first: _" The company said it is “respecting the law” with
its suspension"_.

Previously, they always said to continue their ways, going so far as promising
to pay fines drivers get (sorry, can't find a link for that, but
[http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-
untolerab...](http://ernstseconomyforyou.blogspot.nl/2014/12/the-untolerable-
ignorance-and-arrogance.html) is an example of what they think laws mean)

They basically are trying to force law changes. There is nothing wrong with
that. However, the changes they try to force go against the social structure
of much of Europe. _" The MP’s there should recognize that Uber is working
according to one of the pillars of the Dutch taxi law: more market-like
circumstances, better quality and lower prices"_. Their spokesman forgets
about the "protect the weak" pillar of society. In a sense, this is a clash
between hard capitalism and the social welfare state (a clash of
civilizations, if you want)

Also, I find that he change they are trying to affect does not warrant the
harsh approach Uber takes.

For that reason alone, I hope that changes, if they come at all, do not come
soon.

~~~
blfr
Who are "the weak" being protected by taxi regulations? Uber is usually
cheaper than regular taxis so more available to poorer people.

~~~
threeseed
I can't speak for Spain but here in Australia there are regulations around
pricing ie no surges, there are cameras present in every taxi and drivers are
vetted and have their names clearly displayed.

All of which are designed to protect women, those who are intoxicated or
incapacitated and the mentally challenged from being exploited.

Taxi regulations are like consumer protection laws. You don't know you need
them until something bad happens.

------
carlesfe
Some perspective from a Spaniard:

The Spanish taxi guild/lobby is very, very strong. Spain has a strong public
transit system, but taxis are widely used nevertheless.

Taxi drivers went on strike this year during specific dates and all hell broke
loose. They have much to lose, since a taxi license is very expensive and
considered an investment, there is a second hand license market, etc. Some
people buy houses, they buy taxi licenses. It is a heavily regulated market,
since free competition would draw prices to a point so low that the business
is not profitable (or so they say)

On one hand, I've never seen a rich taxi driver. I'd argue it's a low/mid-
level job for low/middle class people who have nothing else to do. Similar to
construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as anything
else.

On the other hand, I'm pro-competition, but I respect regulated markets for
some areas (healthcare, transportation, telecommunications, energy, etc). So
why not taxis? I'm just not knowledgeable enough to make a strong point for or
against taxi drivers.

While Spain is known for its political corruption, courts of law have been
pretty professional and their rulings are usually fair and law-compliant. So
if a court has banned Uber, it's because the Spanish law protects taxi
drivers. It's a political matter.

In summary, devaluing or voiding taxi licenses would leave tens of thousands
of people in debt, probably without a job, and with nothing else to work of.
Yes, I know that if it were for ice drivers, we would never have had electric
fridges, but I can also sympathize. It's basically a matter of jobs. The
Spanish government doesn't want our 30% unemployement to be any higher, taxis
to be on strike and in general people to be angrier.

TL;DR: Spain is a heavily regulated country and the EU directives also point
to that direction. Taxi drivers are a low-mid demographic which need
protection or, at least, protection from a total disruption of their jobs from
new agents like Uber. Yes, this is bad for free competition, but this is
Europe, and the level of legal protection is like this: workers > consumers >
companies.

~~~
kartikkumar
> Similar to construction workers; if they lose their job they cannot work as
> anything else.

But this isn't true right? It's not that Uber is eliminating taxi jobs, it's
that they are competing with the status quo. Surely, if current drivers would
lose their jobs, they'd be more than welcome to hop on-board the Uber train
(or I guess I should say "Uber car"). Is there a reason that you think that
these drivers wouldn't be able to become Uber drivers? I only have a cursory
understanding of the whole taxi situation since I hardly ever use a taxi
(although I happened to have called one to take me to the airport tomorrow
morning).

~~~
citricsquid
Uber make grandiose claims about the amount their drivers can earn, these
claims have been demonstrated to be false, Uber drives down the cost of using
Uber which in turn drives down the amount that drivers earn[1]. Driving for
Uber is uneconomical for some drivers in some areas, if the trend continues
more and more drivers for Uber are going to find it uneconomical. If the
concern the taxi drivers have is that they are going to lose their _career_ ,
Uber is certainly not a viable alternative, because while it may provide a job
_right now_ who knows what it will provide in a years time.

[1] [http://uk.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-say-theyre-
making...](http://uk.businessinsider.com/uber-drivers-say-theyre-making-less-
than-minimum-wage-2014-10?r=US)

~~~
kartikkumar
That's interesting, and at the same time perplexing. This seems to be a market
that is opening up, with multiple options for drivers. If it's truly the case
that a significant number of Uber drivers are struggling to make ends meet
when working full-time, sure this should lead to an exodus? This is suggested
right at the end of the article:

> There's no way you will stay with Uber if you want to make ends meet. So
> either Uber will fix things, or drivers will leave."

I don't know what contractual obligations are forced onto drivers so maybe
they're tied up for a certain period of time. The following quote from the
article though suggests that it shouldn't be the case:

> Uber is not obligated to pay its drivers minimum wage; the drivers aren't
> employees, they're independent contractors.

Neither do I know if there is a "non-compete" clause of some sort that
prevents them from working for Lyft, Sidecar, or even reverting back to
traditional taxi services. The article suggests that at present this is not
the case:

> "Right now, the TLC is open, so you can work with multiple bases," Diallo
> tells us. "

All in all, I find the business case for Uber intriguing because I don't fully
understand the fuss. Admittedly, this is likely to my lack of understanding of
the powerplay behind all of this, but I struggle to understand how drivers
have gone from the "no-Uber world" to the "I-rely-on-Uber-and-can't-get-away-
and-can't-make-ends-meet-world".

------
pinaceae
Spending a lot of time in Barcelona each year - what exactly is there to
disrupt? taxi service is excellent, at all times of day. prices are
reasonable, they know where to take you. cars are ok, clean.

i get it in the US, with all those shitty cabs and foreign drivers who don't
know their areas, but Europe is different.

Apps like mytaxi.com are closing the payment/booking gap - backed by some
powerful companies like Daimler.

Uber-like services are needed in the US where the government is unable to
actually do its work due to a culture of distrust and paranoia.

There is no electronic health record, Google could not make it work. Sci Fi in
the US. Austrians have had it for years now. Awesomely simple, proven. No
startups needed. Also less chances for creating the next billionaires, but
maybe it's ok if the rest of the population can enjoy working public services.

~~~
DrDimension
Blaming government incompetence on a lack of public trust in government is...
fallacious to put it kindly.

~~~
pinaceae
not at all.

you make the government the source of all evil. blame regulation, blame the
people working in government, don't pay them well. what happens? public
service will suck. no one qualified wants to work there. a self fulfilling
prophecy.

the people get the government they are willing to pay for, they deserve.

the whole starving the beast rhetoric of the GOP, etc in the US is what
ultimately makes the government dysfunctional - outside of Defense of course,
the holy cow. if the DoD would be in charge of healthcare and public
infrastructure, maybe then there would be progress in the US.

~~~
DrDimension
It's too bad you're unaware of the calculation problem and its consequences.

Also, let's reverse your argument -

"you make the free-market the source of all evil. blame a lack of regulation,
blame the people working in corporations, regulate their pay as well. what
happens? free-market service will suck. no one qualified wants to work there.
a self fulfilling prophecy."

------
enigami
I think Uber will find a way out of this situation. I am an Indian and am
really feel sad for what happened in New Delhi. But, what happened after that
incident is an example of how Uber handles such kind of unfortunate challenges
[1]. Now the company is taking every possible step to be a socially
responsible company which is committed to the safety of its customers.

Whenever a new and disruptive business model is introduced in a market, people
(making a living out of the existing business) might show some resistance and
even the governments will take some steps to safeguard the votes (I mean the
affected people). However, in the due course things will settle down and the
new entrant will emerge as winner (with an understanding of the local culture
and regulation).

I personally feel, country like India definitely requires Uber like services
to ease the pain of millions of travelers who are literally looted by the
unfair taxi drivers and ineffective fare system around the country.

[1] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-
life/11315782/Uber-I...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-
life/11315782/Uber-India-to-roll-out-new-safety-measures-after-Delhi-
rape.html)

~~~
mobiplayer
Do you know why Uber wasn't invented in Spain? Because it is illegal. People
giving rides for money have existed always and they've been punished because
they were breaking the law.

Now they're telling us it is "disruptive" to make crime more organized? Hey,
we've got this nice app in order to receive your illegal service in an easy,
trackable and convenient way.

I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it is illegal. There's a huge
difference. I'm all in for an open taxi market as a side business to cheap
public transportation like we have in most places in Europe.

~~~
vbezhenar
What's wrong with people giving rides for money? That's ideal model of open
market IMO. I have this model applied in my country and 5 kilometers taxi ride
would cost around 1-2 euros, depending on time (bus costs 0.4 euro). That's
nice for customers, if you ask me. There's other side of the coin, it might
not be safe enough to ride with unknown driver at night being in unconscious
state. But we have public taxi services with slightly higher prices for that.

I was at Spain in my vacation and transportation costs shocked me, TBH.

~~~
mobiplayer
Hey vbezhenar,

I don't see nothing morally wrong on their business model. I'm just pointing
out it is illegal under the current law and that's why there's no Spanish
Uber. Also, we all know this is not ride-sharing, just a cheaper and
unregulated taxi company. Blablacar is ride-sharing :)

Transportation costs in Spain are far from free, but if you were shocked I
would recommend you not visiting Britain for your health's sake. Well, I
actually recommend visiting the country because it is beautiful, but just
don't hop on a train.

------
chippy
Can we clarify: is it just the Uber Pop service (normal people's cars,
irregular costs) which is suspended, not the standard Uber taxi service
(licensed booked hire by authorized driver) ?

Does Uber operate in Spain using it's other services?

~~~
fesja
No, they don't. They just had Uber Pop.

There is a Spanish Uber competitor called Cabify that does comply with the
law. They have professional drivers and cool and clean cars. So yes, Uber
could be legal if they want (it implies more effort though as every driver has
to have a license)

