
On Working with White People – Part One - tantalor
https://terencemcghee.com/Articles/Social/2017/07/21/9D100A42BE6B22CEF42C2C2EE23C6E45.html
======
mugenjin
It’s fucking disappointing reading all the comments here. Why is the majority
consensus discounting this article because of some street vernacular? I’ve
read comments before on HN stating that the majority of the HN commenters are
white people, and I’ve discounted those comments. But man. Seems like it’s
true. Ya’ll getting uncomfortable with some street vernacular and invalidating
the author’s perspective.

The dude grew up in a poverty-stricken black community dealing with white
communities, so of course he’s going to have street vernacular in his writing.
Of course he’s going to write about his perspective of culture shock and
interacting with white people. He grew up dealing with that shit. It just all
makes sense. Dude’s article is true to his character and upbringing. Nothing
surprising but some street talk. Ya’ll failing to understand black culture
here when ya’ll discounting his article because of a reference to Drake or
some street talk. The fuck.

If ya’ll just get over that uncomfortableness, ya’ll can actually see a new
perspective. “Wow. I’ve never seen ‘uncomfortable’ being used like that. Next
time when I hear someone say they’re uncomfortable, I’ll dig deeper and ask
what specifically makes them uncomfortable.”

TLDR: majority of HN commenters are people who might be white that fail to
become aware of social issues from a black person’s perspective because dude
used some street vernacular.

~~~
newsbinator
Street vernacular aside, my guess is the article would have been better
received if the author weren't "one of the world’s greatest software
developers" who "paid a substantial price to achieve my high level of
greatness".

It's that extreme arrogance coupled with calling all these coworkers bitches
and hos that makes me "uncomfortable".

Also being broadly racist against white people isn't strengthening the
message.

> "In a later post I will certainly discuss how White people have this extreme
> need to identify with suffering."

Change the word "white" to "asian" or "women" in the post, and you get
something that'll immediately get flagged and removed.

I think a lot of us here would love to read, discuss and dissect a post about
the different working and social cultures that majority white people set up
that lead to barriers for minorities.

But this post ain't it.

To quote the author:

> "Nawl muhfukka. You just don’t like looking at yourself for what you really
> are… a petty-minded ho with a fukked up perspective on life."

~~~
mugenjin
Your response exactly proves my point and show that you are not really trying
to understand the author’s perspective.

> “Street vernacular aside, my guess is the article would have been better
> received if the author weren't "one of the world’s greatest software
> developers" who "paid a substantial price to achieve my high level of
> greatness".

I agree. It’s damn obvious that he’s not the best programmer in the world. But
man, he made it out of a poverty-stricken environment. Don’t you think he’s
allow to brag? I think so. Him being arrogant still doesn’t mean you should
disregards his perspective.

> It's that extreme arrogance coupled with calling all these coworkers bitches
> and hos that makes me "uncomfortable”.”

Calling people bitches and hoes is definitely part of street vernacular in a
poor black community. He had to adapt. I’m sure if he used proper english,
he’d probably be called out for trying to be white. It’s one of the vicious
cycle that most black communities are trying to combat within their own
communities. So yeah, he’s gonna call people bitches and hoes.

> “Also being broadly racist against white people isn't strengthening the
> message.”

Again, you refuse to understand his perspective. He’s black. He grew up in a
poor black community and based on history, white communities haven’t really
been nice to them. So yeah, dealing with “white” is a big social issue for
him. He tells you this at the beginning of his post.

All I’m saying is why is everyone disregarding this guy’s perspective just
because he used street vernacular that’s consistent with his upbringing and
character? Why is his perspective less than any one else? Sure he called some
people bitches and hoes. Sure he has an ego almost as big as Kanye. It still
doesn’t discredit his point.

I mean, have you never experience what he pointed out about ‘uncomfortable’? I
have definitely experience what he’s saying. I have even used the same excuse
as well in the past. I’ve seen colleagues use the same excuse. He’s not wrong.

It’s just fucking disappointing that everyone here is so privilege that they
can’t even conceive his perspective.

~~~
ominous
Just to be clear: do you want to read more or less texts where it is ok to
call people bitches and hoes?

~~~
tantalor
Why? Is it making you uncomfortable?

~~~
ominous
No. And as for my question "do you want more of it"? While we are at it,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors)
should we advocate for restaurants that cater to people who had to resort to
cannibalism to survive extreme situations?

Or is cannibalism something you want less of, not more?

------
meri_dian
I have no problem with him writing about what he assumes to be biased or
racist behavior he's encountered. But the racist stereotyping and
generalization he indulges in is baseless and drains his entire piece of
credibility. It has no place on HN or in any sort of discourse.

~~~
Mz
My therapist used to say "If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one
that yelps is probably the one you hit."

When criticisms from an oppressed underclass comes in, there is usually some
polite and politically correct reason to dismiss them. In many cases, if the
oppressed could somehow magically find the right words to say it
"appropriately," it still would not be acceptable because the truth in such
situations is very often that the real problem is criticizing the status quo,
not the manner in which those criticisms were framed.

Or, to use the terminology of this post, it makes people _uncomfortable_ and
they play _the comfortable card._ Because the comfort of privileged peoples
matter. The discomfort of the oppressed never does, no matter how much real
and genuine suffering is involved for the oppressed compared to the minor
annoyances the privileged group can't tolerate for themselves.

~~~
mugenjin
What an eloquent explanation. 100% agreed.

------
newsbinator
> "Do you think that Deb had to list valid reasons why the organization
> shouldn’t make the hire?"

> "This dumb bitch just didn’t wanna have to say it."

> "This ho did all sorts of shit to try and make sure that “her man and this
> new bitch” didn’t spend any time together."

Maybe because the hire thinks of people as dumb bitches and hos, sees every
interaction through a racial lens, and can't seem to go a paragraph without
cursing.

Or maybe I'm racist. It's probably that.

~~~
ivanbakel
>sees every interaction through a racial lens

As opposed to all those non-racial interactions you have as a minority in the
workplace, or life in general? It's easy to suggest that there exists this
social state where race isn't important and everyone is equal, but the
material reality, of peoples preconceptions and sub/conscious assumptions is
different. As a minority, your experiences are defined and informed by your
race - how are you meant to have interactions without a racial aspect?

~~~
komali2
I don't remember where I heard it, but it went along the lines of

>As a black dude, racism can make you crazy. You have a white guy walk in the
room, and he says hello to everyone, but not to you. Did he just not see you
cause you were kinda tucked in the corner, or is he racist? The girl at the
coffee shop shoots you a funky look, is it because she's racist, or did she
just have something in her eye? Maybe your haircut is just weird. It adds up,
day after day after day, it makes you crazy.

~~~
newsbinator
I've got some experience being an immediately visible minority, and once you
start to go down the "because she's racist" rabbit hole, there are no brakes.

There's a ton of negative interactions that we all experience in any given
week. If you start seeing every interaction through a racial lens, it does
indeed make you crazy.

You go from "she's having a bad day so the way she treated me is about her" to
"she's racist so the way she treated me is about me".

~~~
owebmaster
> If you start seeing every interaction through a racial lens, it does indeed
> make you crazy.

This usually happens when you "start" interact with the world with a racial
black skin color.

------
vowelless
I just might be oblivious, as a middle eastern immigrant, but how is this not
a racist piece ? Am I missing something ?

~~~
skndr
Racism is more than just calling out race in a specific dynamic:

 _... "racism" is defined not only in terms of individual prejudice, but also
in terms of a power structure which protects the interests of the dominant
culture and actively discriminates against ethnic minorities._[0]

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Popular_usage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Popular_usage)

~~~
dragonwriter
> Racism is more than just calling out race in a specific dynamic

This is a _very_ hotly contested point (one on which there is no clear
consensus on the Left and utter rejection ofnthe idea on the Right.)

The “power structure” concept of racism was, historically, a deliberate
invention to invalidate the specific idea that black people (the racial group
of interest in the context in which the concept was developed) could be
racist; it's deeply problematic because _the mere adoption of it as a popular
viewpoint_ alters the power structure, creates (or enhances an existing)
context in which people in groups perceived to be disadvantaged in a broader
context are privileges for that reason, and thus ends up negating its own
basic purpose and making itself irrelevant.

It's much more useful to view the specific power dynamics applicable to a
particular case as a factor in the significance and impact of racism than to
take more generalized power dynamics as an factor in deciding whether there is
racism.

------
maxxxxx
I am white and I am often weirded out by the "uncomfortable" thing too. Fun
read.

~~~
majewsky
I am white and I've never heard anyone argue on the basis of "I'm
uncomfortable with this [person|choice]". They at least try to weasel around
and present faux arguments.

Could be because I'm from Germany. Is this an American thing, or maybe just
something that's not happening at my workplace?

~~~
maxxxxx
I am German too. From my experience Germans are much more direct than the US.

------
owebmaster
> had a very odd combination of thug background mixed with highly valuable
> software development abilities

This is my experience, too. And it is very good to read this here. Great
article, thanks for the writer and the one who brought it here. We are a
minority in tech compared to women but it is difficult to not think that HN is
as racists as the article describes when you see articles like "Women in Tech"
getting a whole day into the #1 and this one flagged with a lot of racists
comments that aren't flagged.

------
4b11b4
I keep my statement about Drake. However. It was a good read. This shit is
true. I can picture this exact shit happening in my old work team if a dude
with some thug tendencies walked in. People would be uncomfortable.

~~~
newsbinator
Yup, generally speaking professional environments and thug tendencies don't
mix well. That's because thug tendencies put people on edge instead of letting
them concentrate on the work.

I don't bring much of my personality into my relationships with clients
either. It's one thing to expose the human side a bit when starting
conversations. It's another thing to fly blindly down the aggressive and self-
aggrandizing tunnel of "Keepin It 100 For All My Real Software Ninjas".

To quote the author:

> "In case you’re an ignorant muhfukka and can’t grasp the significance of
> this or can’t see what’s so bad about it, then pay attention you bastard."

~~~
rexicus
It sounds like one of his friends didn't get hired so he went on a rant
confusing corporate culture with all white people.

------
aosmith
This whole post just makes me cringe. Anyone who has to say they're an amazing
engineer that many times is probably over compensating for something.

~~~
Mz
Or maybe he is saying it because no one else will because that would make them
uncomfortable to admit that someone with such a foul mouth and the wrong skin
color actually has mad skillz.

------
g00gler
Isn't the "uncomfortable" thing something he and others can learn to use to
their benefit?

That's my takeaway. Can't wait to flex this new privilege, tell my manager
meeting with users/stakeholders makes me uncomfortable.

Like, instead of being negative about it, he could have said "Hey everybody,
check it out, all you have to do is say something's making you uncomfortable
and everyone caters to you".

------
ibejoeb
On Working with Black People: It was cool. We all got shit done together.

------
drivingmenuts
He lost me the moment he claimed to be the greatest software developer in the
world. Anytime someone brags, I very much want to see them forced to admit
they aren't.

------
mirimir
Damn, this article reminds me why I've loved working with Black people :)

------
nunez
I'm black-Latino and this was cringey as fuck to read

------
hordeallergy
Incredibly low quality piece of writing. Is this an indicator of the direction
of hn? I won't stick around. Aside, I'm white and went to boarding school in
Africa - does the author think I should write a blog post explaining black
people?

~~~
Overtonwindow
No, I don't think you should write a blog post, that is possibly what the
author is hoping you will do. Then they can use it to claim you're being
insensitive to important racial issues, etc. It's a trap.

------
bigpoppa
garbage

------
4b11b4
If you quotin Drake in the first few paragraphs, I'm done.

~~~
komali2
Done as in not wanting to read the rest? How come?

~~~
jboles
So many spelling/grammatical errors too. It was difficult to parse.

~~~
komali2
Really? You must have a keener eye than me, I only saw swear words misspelled,
which I believe is on purpose.

~~~
komali2
Why downvotes? I just ran a spell checker on the post, there are literally no
spelling errors. There are, however, non-standard words that you may not find
in a scientific publication, but you will _certainly_ find in common
discourse, and the spelling of all of these is _perfectly consistent_.

Stuff like "ya boi," "fukk," "nawl," "ho," and "skillz" are words we can find
millions of examples spelled exactly like that. They are not mispellings, they
are members of the English language that may or may not have been captured yet
in some dictionary we all happen to point to and agree is "right."

