
So you’re moving to London - smikhanov
http://www.mikhanov.com/2014/06/15/so-youre-moving-to-london-383
======
peteretep
I've lived for ~8 years in London, and ~8 years in Bangkok, a few years in
Oxford, and a bit of time in some other random places.

The striking thing about London is that EVERYWHERE is an hour away, and that
impacts your social life. Unless you live or work next to your friends,
prepare to see them rarely. In both Bangkok and Oxford, social life was
effortless - someone would SMS you in the afternoon, and you'd swing by some
restaurant or bar on your way home to see them. Oxford, everywhere was
trivially walkable, Bangkok taxis are virtually free, but London? It's an hour
on the tube. Because of this, everyone is BUSY. Busy all the time. If I want
to see my friends, I book 6 weeks in advance - and I live relatively central
(Zone 2, Camden).

Summer in London is amazing - the parks are fantastic, there are some good
bars ... winter is cold, rainy, and grey, and bluntly we're moving from London
because we can't take another winter here.

Just my 2p.

~~~
easytiger
> .. winter is cold, rainy, and grey

Last winter wasn't. We barely had the heating on at all. Year before wasn't
that bad.

I always find the people who care a lot about the weather to be rather idle-
minded. Unless your main intellectual past time is playing golf i'm not sure
how it can affect you. If you are busy doing something awesome the last thing
you are going to care about is the rain.

~~~
JonoBB
What a pejorative statement. If those awesome things involve being outdoors,
then you care a lot about the weather. If you grew up in a country with an
outdoors lifestyle, expect that to be severely curtailed when you come to
London (or the UK for that matter). If you have kids, expect them to be
playing indoors for a disproportionate amount of time.

For someone who grew up in a much sunnier climate (South Africa), it can be
crushingly oppressive at times.

~~~
easytiger
I grew up in one of the rainier and colder parts of the British Isles and I
don't recall any such issues with playing outside. Sure I had to wear wellies
when playing in the fields or local common green areas but I don't recall it
restricting whatever it was I was doing. Perhaps it is the modern need to have
adults oversee everything a child does which actually causes the restriction.
I'd expect most children couldn't care less about the rain and bad weather.

Also I visit South Africa 4-5 times a year and I don't notice my daily routine
change much from London apart from driving more. If anything I walk less
because it is too hot around Dec-Feb. Indeed I'd be pretty worried about
letting kids out for long periods in such unrelenting sunshine.

~~~
Dewie
> If anything I walk less because it is too hot around Dec-Feb. Indeed I'd be
> pretty worried about letting kids out for long periods in such unrelenting
> sunshine.

Oh, so then the weather matters after all. Apparently it matters so much that
it has affected the whole work-hour traditions of Spain. Huh.

"Weather" can be pointless wringing, and it can also be complaints from people
who live in a climate that necessitates both air conditioning in the summer to
avoid heat strokes on the worst days, and heating in the winter to avoid
freezing (both themselves and their plumbing). It involves people who have to
worry about changing tires on their car when the winter comes. It involves
people who sometimes wake up and have to shovel 1 meter height of snow to be
able to get out of the house. It involves urban inhabitants that have to worry
about the level of pollution in the air which varies based on how cold the
weather is and how much it is raining.

Where I live, the weather is probably mostly a slight inconvenience. For you,
who lives in the British Isles? I'm guessing an oceanic climate, which even if
it is pretty cold in the winter it is probably not frigid, no? And in turn,
perhaps overall cool summers. So overall a pretty even distribution of
temperatures over the year; seldom cold, mostly cool to slightly warm. Yeah,
you're probably not inconvenienced by the weather, _compared to a lot of
people elsewhere_.

~~~
DanBC
To be fair about the weather: the M25 - one of the most important motorways in
England (goes around London) was closed for over 24 hours by less than an inch
of snow.

Public transport in London is often thrown into chaos by 2 or 3 inches of
snow.

------
petercooper
_It’s the city of Beatles_

That would be Liverpool, 200 miles north-west :-)

 _or a two thousand year old city, London has no antique palaces or medieval
streets_

It's hard to say what "antique" is in terms of a palace, but I'd argue it has
at least one: the Tower of London (officially Her Majesty's Royal Palace and
Fortress) was founded in 1066 and much of what stands today was the result of
building in the 13th century. This is older than anything in Paris, say, but
hardly on a par with Greece ;-)

 _For a casual stroller London looks like a loosely linked collection of small
villages_

It is. Even when my dad was a kid, even suburbs as far in as Kidbrooke,
Blackheath and Lewisham were essentially considered unique places, often
separated by greenery, and not physically joined to the larger conurbation. A
lot of gaps have been filled in the past 50 years to make it feel like more of
a whole. Heading south, I don't think you even see a field until you hit
Coulsdon now..

~~~
dagw
_That would be Liverpool_

If you live in London, than you know that London is the only place worth
mentioning, or even acknowledging, in England and thus if it happened in
England and is worth mentioning, it must have happened in London.

~~~
lmm
On the contrary, actual Londoners give plenty of credit to the rest of the
country for things that happened there. It tends to be ignorant foreigners who
assume that anything in the UK must have happened in London.

~~~
vidarh
Having lived in London 14 years by now have led me to think that "actual
Londoners" are about as mythical as unicorns.

~~~
dagw
I hear they all drink at pub in the East End called The True Scotsman.

------
voicereasonish
> This part of England has the same weather throughout most of the year

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. We have seasons over here - clearly defined
seasons. At the moment we're enjoying hot sunny days, rainy nights. We'll
probably have some good snow in the winter, and a variety of things thrown in
between now and then.

If you're a fan of weather, then the UK is a great place to live. If you don't
like weather then somewhere like California is a better option with its
relentless boring sunshine.

~~~
bjelkeman-again
I actually think London gets a bad rep for its weather. It is certainly not as
good as Stockholm, but not as bad as its reputation.

~~~
JazCE
London gets a terrible rep. I come from Wales and the difference in the
weather is quite dramatic. Back home in Wales, it probably rains 150 more days
than it does in London. I have a leather trench that kept me warm in the
winters in Wales, it now has me boiling during London winters.

Yes i agree London can get pretty grey, but it's nowhere near as miserable as
people make out.

~~~
nkoren
Dude, don't tell anyone! The real estate pressure is bad enough already!

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14113
A very touristy, and one dimensional view of London, and very different to my
impressions of London.

The author has clearly only really tried to experience the food and culture of
the very centre, and likely only lived there as well. The only thing that
they've got spot on is that london is essentially a collection of loosely
linked villages. For a permanent resident, that means that where you live
(probably one of the "village" areas) is a world away from what the centre of
London is like.

~~~
k-mcgrady
>> "london is essentially a collection of loosely linked villages. For a
permanent resident, that means that where you live (probably one of the
"village" areas) is a world away from what the centre of London is like."

Any good resources for trying to pick the right area? I'm planning on moving
to London but besides the names of some of the areas I know very little about
them.

~~~
14113
The best thing to do would probably be to ask people on places like r/london,
as (like the article says) London can have great areas right next to less nice
areas.

~~~
k-mcgrady
Thanks for the tip, never thought about r/london

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grey-area
This is an interesting take on London from an outsider. The villages point is
important - to really get to know the town you need to get out of the centre
and visit a few of the villages (Hampstead, Kilburn, Notting Hill, Camden,
Kensington, Greenwich, Hoxton etc) - there's a lot of variety there and as the
author says a lot of very mixed areas, each with their own personality.

This can make travel a chore, but if you have friends in the same area, you
don't have to meet them in the middle of town, and some areas are very well
connected. It also gives the city interest as there's always a new area to
discover when visiting friends. Walking and biking round London is also
rewarding if you like cityscapes because it varies so much.

 _Second, when a fast-food industry adopts some food type in London, it
completely wipes away all other options to try it, leaving you only with a
dull ersatz (this is what happened to sushi, for example). Just like with the
music scene, the competition for a spot in a good restaurant can be fierce._

This is not accurate, though I can see why you might have that impression if
you live somewhere sterilised by big brands like the centre of town or Canary
Wharf where the only option is yo sushi. There are plenty of horrible chains
for every cuisine catering to tourists, but there are a lot of great sushi
places in town, like Jin Kichi in Hampstead or Inaho near Notting Hill. So
this doesn't ring true to me at all - if you're eating in London there's no
reason to entertain a chain restaurant, and thousands of alternatives, even if
the most popular to get busy on weekends.

The analysis of financing rings true though - London does feel divided into
those who work in _the city_ (a different jurisdiction and a different world),
and those who don't. Pay scales, careers and culture all change as you cross
that divide, and unfortunately Canary Wharf is like an island insulated from
the areas which surround it - most of London is quite different from that
though. As the article says, funding for startups outside finance is not
always easy (I'd love to hear contradictions of this).

The things I treasure the most about London, having been here for a decade or
so, are the genuinely cosmopolitan and egalitarian culture, and the mixing of
world culture occurring here in the last few decades. While some resent this
change for me it is the redeeming feature of London, the part which makes it
feel like a world city, not just the capital of a small nation shrinking in
importance. Take a typical bus in this city and you might hear a dozen
languages spoken in the space of a journey, from all over the world. Perhaps
this is something we'll see more of in every city as the world continues to
shrink.

------
highlander
If you want to work in tech in the UK but don't like the downsides of London,
it's worth considering Edinburgh. The tech scene is really taking off here,
with plenty of jobs (see this list of tech companies
[http://www.nobugs.org/deved/](http://www.nobugs.org/deved/)). There is much
more an 'ecosystem' of tech employers than there was a few years ago. Maybe
you will make 75-80% of a London salary (your mileage may vary) but your
living costs are way lower. You can live in a beautiful 2 bedroom Georgian
apartment in central Edinburgh for £800/month and walk to work. The annual
cultural festivals bring some great music, comedy, theatre, film and art to
the city. The only major downside (IMO) is the weather, consistently a few
degrees cooler than London.

------
JazCE
Living in London is to an extent, a young persons game. Many commentators are
talking about being an hour away from people and home. I don't think that's a
big problem. Sure it's not easy, I used to live somewhere where i was
nevermore than 1/2 hours walk from anyone of my friends, now i'm generally on
an hours tube journey.

It's not a big deal and it's about being in an area you like. I love my area
in west London, I could have moved closer to my friends in East London, but
that would put me out with friends in West, South West and North London. I'm
in Zone 2, so cycling to the middle isn't a big deal, but nor is taking a tube
to east London, or south east London. If you don't like commutes and being
within busy places, it might not be for you. You'll make friends with people
who live and work all over london. If you're good friends, you'll make the
time(travel) differences work. It's one of those things people who live in
London deal with. I do think it's about being under a certain age/having that
mindset though.

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darkFunction
I have lived in London for six years. The tech scene is very vibrant, but I
struggle with the 'big city' aspect. Strangers are generally ruder in public
than elsewhere in the UK (not a reflection on them, more a side-effect of
nobody ever having personal space). The commute is miserable, and nights out
in Zone 1 & 2 tend to be overly commercialised, tacky and unfriendly, with the
exception of a few hidden gems.

It's not somewhere you can clear your head by going for a walk, even the
numerous and beautiful parks are crowded with young families on a sunny day.
Quaint, village-type areas are well known and swarming with tourists. "Going
for a walk" means something totally different in London- you're not going to
escape the bustle, and will probably end up spending money.

If you are somebody who can deal with a complete absence of personal space
while outside, don't mind being herded around like cattle, and the constant
drone of traffic/sirens, London otherwise has a lot to offer (good
restaurants, museums and art galleries, lots of tech Meetups).

~~~
vidarh
> It's not somewhere you can clear your head by going for a walk, even the
> numerous and beautiful parks are crowded with young families on a sunny day

So go a bit further out (and consider moving further out). Bromley or South
Croydon is full of actual countryside and the occasional bit of woodland with
far fewer people, and still in London, for example. You'll find quiet or
quieter parks dotted around the outer edge of London if you just look a bit.
If you don't need completely quiet, there are plenty of _quieter_ places
closer to the centre too. Like the river walkway from around Imperial Wharf
(on the north side of the river) towards Barnes, and further towards Richmond
(Barnes and Richmond and the area in between also have plenty of quiet areas).
Especially if you walk into residential areas instead of near the commercial
districts.

The solution of going further out applies to pretty much anything in London:
Avoid zone 1 and 2 unless you want big, loud, expensive and commercialised.
It's fun now and again, but there are so many alternatives.

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lukasm
I'm in London (2 years in total) and it's really great. You can really
complain about 4 things: \- It is really hard to find a nice flat in a good
condition (no mold etc.) with reasonable price. \- Some good&services are
overpriced (e.g. trains) \- Taxes are a bit too high \- Weather :)

It's in top 5 big cities to live in the world for sure.

------
mherrmann
I lived in London for three years as a student. I can't comment on the
tech/startup scene but I can confirm that quality of living isn't great.
Coming from Vienna, supposedly the city with the best quality of life, I am
spoiled though.

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secfirstmd
I'm from Dublin and it pains me to say it but London is the best city in the
world. I've lived here for over ten years at various times and my god do I
love this place.

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cliveowen
What I'd like to know is how to move there with 0 experience and without
knowing anyone who lives there.

~~~
alexbilbie
I moved to London a year ago and only knew about 3 people here at the time.
One of things that threw me initially the most (having moved from Lincoln) was
that everyone here seems to plan everything way in advance, I missed the
spontaneity of my former social life.

Anyway to make some friends I went to a few different meetup nights for
technologies I was interested in. I joined an online dating site to try and
make some friends; I had mixed results with this but it has resulted in some
great friendships. I also made friends through colleagues and friends of
friends.

A year later I have about 10 close friends who I see regularly, plus
colleagues and other people who I see semi-regularly and I do feel like I've
gone a lot social spontaneity in my life again.

All in all it was a bit lonely at first but I'm loving living here and really
can't imagine wanting to leave any time soon.

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frobozz
> If everything above sounds like a description of city made for the rich,
> this is not the case.

...

>There’s one thing that all districts of London have in common though: they
are all expensive to live in.

Make up your mind.

