
Ask HN: Should a tech founder look for a non-tech co-founder? - BlueSkies
Assume a solo tech founder has all the skills needed to complete a given Web application for a startup.  What would be more valuable in a co-founder - additional tech skills to get to a prototype quicker or someone with seasoned startup experience to help seek funding, work on marketing, business plan, recruiting, etc?
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Mystalic
Your best bet, from my experience, is someone with the startup experience,
business connections, marketing knowledge, and general know-how to execute on
a completely different side of the business while you concentrate on the
prototype.

But for best results, and to avoid the pitfall davidw pointed out, get someone
who knows the basics of hacking too so he/she doesn't ask you to build a
website that can shoot lasers out of the screen.

~~~
BlueSkies
Good advice. I had previously focussed my search on finding a fellow hacker,
but was passing on some qualified business types. One of them happened to be a
VC looking to try something new. I guess I was off track, but better to learn
late than never ...

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edw519
"Assume a solo tech founder has all the skills needed to complete a given Web
application for a startup."

A huge assumption.

If you're wrong about that and you get a non-tech co-founder, you're toast.

Personally, I'd hedge my bets with a second tech and worry about the non-tech
stuff later.

I have been in the exact same situation twice before and here's what happened
both times: I was working 100 hour weeks and my partner was bored. Then he
went out and oversold what I could have delivered. A disaster. Twice. (You'd
think I'd have learned.)

The problem isn't whether you have the _skills_ for what is needed. It's
whether you have the _time_ to do it. I underestimated what it would take and
didn't account for all kinds of stuff. It's a very easy trap to fall into,
believe me. The stuff that bites you in the butt down the line will be
technical; count on it.

I would have traded either non-technical partner for a fellow hacker in a
heartbeat. If I had, who knows, you may have been reading this at Eddie News
instead while I typed it from my yacht. Don't make the same mistake as me. Get
another tech.

~~~
BlueSkies
Perhaps its the fact that I'm in the Boston area (instead of the West coast),
but I've had problems connecting with a good hacker co-founder. Most that I've
met are looking for co-founders themselves for their own ideas ... I'd join a
different startup, but I think I've got a good idea with a rare domain to
boot.

~~~
edw519
I hear ya. Keep at it.

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mrtron
One big concern you should have is this: Can you recognize a talented and
driven non-technical person?

Just as one great developer can do ten times the work as an average developer
with far less problems, the same holds true with marketing, business, etc.

So, it may be more of a challenge than you expect finding someone, and
determining their skill level.

I also catch myself minimizing the value of certain business issues and
maximizing the value of technical issues. I think that is a natural tendancy,
so make sure you keep that in check. Best of luck.

~~~
ScottWhigham
Wow - great advice. People underestimate not only those things but their own
skills at being able to recognize those qualities in someone in a different
industry. I'm a tech person and it is extremely hard for me to evaluate
someone from a marketing background to see if they are like me but for
marketing (in terms of output/production/drive). It's just not natural. As an
entreprenuer, I tend to be the optimist and think, "They are awesome!" b/c I'm
enamored of their education/prior-job-experience. Maybe that's just me...

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mdasen
It's a double edged sword.

On the positive: they're good at marketing, getting in people's faces, getting
the word out, getting people on board, etc. I just can't talk to advertisers
so I'd end up with AdWords getting less revenue. I'd be bad at promoting the
thing so there'd be fewer users.

On the negative: most of them have no f'in clue what makes any sense in
technology. They don't use it enough. Their ideas will be something like,
"maybe we should do something like eBay, but with a better rating system".
They'll come up with a lot of nonsense that isn't useful - but they don't know
that since they just don't use computers and the internet as much as we do. Of
course, they're a bit arrogant (it's why they're good in part one) so they
think you should be following their lead.

You need to find someone that can do part 1 without being so full of
themselves that they think they know how to build a webapp and that you're
just code in human form. It's hard because most of those types like to think
of themselves as the "idea person" rather than doing the work of promoting,
forming partnerships, etc. Their "idea" is crap and been done before. You need
someone to do the non-code heavy lifting.

~~~
dkokelley
I'm conducting a sort of experiment with my own life. I've seen a lot of
threads here about "Hackers vs. Bus. Development/marketing" and so I've
decided that the debate must be settled.

When I was 14, I learned all I needed to build a Battlebot. I wanted to enter
the show. I designed and built a frame, and filled it with the electrical
components to make it work. It was pretty fun actually. I've spent time
passively researching programming but never found the time to take it up to a
usable level. I only know a few things and can understand some programming
jokes. I've built a couple of websites and I have a decent understanding of
how that whole "internet contraption" works. Basically, I consider myself a
form of hacker, at least, whatever form can exist that doesn't know how to
program for beans.

After accepting all of this, and seeing what type of person it appears I am,
I've decided to major in marketing (and possibly double in finance). I've done
a few businesses of my own and have a decent understanding of the marketing
and development involved in making it succeed.

In the end (about 2-3 years from now), I will be what I would consider a well
rounded tech _and_ business focused individual.

Because of my obvious inexperience in programming, I think any startup I
create or join will use me in a business development fashion, rather than as a
hacker (even if I were to obtain a working knowledge of a language).

My goal is to be that marketing guy who also understands and appreciates what
goes into building the product, instead of being the one who is purely an
"idea person" with little experience with computers and the internet.

I want to prove to myself and others that it's possible to have both the right
and left side of the brain working for you to help create something great.

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webwright
Totally totally totally depends on what you're building. B2C? B2B? A business
with lots of bizdev ops or no? Investment required or not? Is the core problem
(or the way you want to attack it) a technology problem or a
sales/distribution problem? Heck, or a design problem?

With the general question, I'll give you my best shot at a general answer.
Building something people want to use is the first order problem where
virtually every startup fails. Select a co-founder who will help you solve
that problem. If you don't, funding, marketing, business plans, and recruiting
aren't going to help much.

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prakash
Whoever you find first that meets your hiring criteria.

Also I would _not_ put it as a tech vs. non tech co-founder; rather hire for
complimentary skills so that as a team you can cover most of the functions.

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davidw
Yes: they'll be able to cover things you aren't as comfortable with, and thus
complement your own skills.

No: since you're 'looking', it'll be hard to find someone you trust thoroughly
enough to really share the work with. It's easy for non-tech types to dream up
lots of hard things to code.

~~~
BlueSkies
My thinking was to continue to lead the technical vision for the service, with
the non-tech co-founder sharing learned experiences and leading other aspects
of the company startup.

~~~
davidw
All things considered, I think what I've picked up from the books and articles
like 'founders at work' is to go with whoever you're really comfortable with,
and trust, on a personal level. Someone that you "go way back with". (Yes,
that's a catch 22 if you're looking for one now:-/ )

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richesh
Google: Larry Page + Sergey Brin (both technical) EBay: Pierre Omidyar & Chris
Agarpao (both technical) Microsoft: Bill Gates & Marc McDonald (both
technical) Apple: Steve Jobs & Steve Wozniak (both technical) PayPal: Max
Levchin & Luke Nosek (both technical) (Yes, I know Peter Thiel is not
technical, at least not on paper) Amazon: Jeff Bezos (technical) and probably
hired a technical person at first.

I'm not saying its not possible to grow a company with a non-tech person,
there are many examples where this has worked (PayPal could count as one). My
point is that two tech-founders can get a product out fast if you work well
together.

Although finding a hacker co-founder, is a whole another ball game. You really
need to find someone who will take ownership of your idea as their own and
move forward. This is soooo hard to find...soo hard...Good Luck!

~~~
aneesh
Steve Jobs is definitely not technical. He is, however, a marketer-par-
excellence.

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tom
All of the skills you mention are valuable if you can find someone with
"seasoned startup experience". They're not growing on trees (last I looked
from my perch). A couple of questions for you to think about.

Do you have the experience in the space you are trying to attack? If not, you
best be looking for someone, either technical or not, who does, who can speak
to the market, and investors about the market (or angels FROM the market).
Also, what's your next milestone? Is it your first paying customer, or is it a
demo that will not be launch ready? What will his/her first milestone be? Is
there enough work at present to keep a biz person busy in exchange for the
equity? There will ALWAYS be enough todo's on the list of the developers... In
short, are you sure you're ready for a non-technical founder?

BTW: my cofounder is non-technical (I'm sure he'd love to see me describe him
as such). I asked him aboard before I'd written even a hundred lines of code.
Why? Because he knows the market well and has professional experience /
knowledge that I, or likely any other hacker, couldn't hope to pick up in any
reasonable amount of time. If that's what you need - then get looking ... they
are worth their weight in gold and very, very hard to find!

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rokhayakebe
Get a Business Graduate with Hacking skills. They exist.

When hiring for a startup you can afford someone with A or B. In the worst
case scenario you need someone with A and B. In the best case you need someone
with A and B (assuming both are skills), and Passionated about what you are
doing.

It turns out that the majority of talented people are not "willing" to
startup, but you can find one if you look hard enough.

~~~
ScottWhigham
But the mere fact that you felt the need to include "... They exist." shows
how rare they are. If you waited around until you found a "Business Graduate
with Hacking skills" that also fit all the other things needed to be an
entrepreneur (and that you actually liked) you might never get going...

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clb22
I had this question many times. I think is better to have a tech co-founder,
because you need to tryout your product and make buzz on the market. Then, the
right people for marketing and business plan will come to you.

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poppysan
Marketing and funding can be a connections game. in my opinion, it's best to
substitute years of sitting on a project with no connection to funding with
giving a cut to a connected person with previous startup funding experience.
Saves time and headache...

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menloparkbum
From personal experience, I'm going to say no, don't get a non-tech cofounder
(exception made for clones of Steve Jobs.)

There is a lot of nontechnical stuff to do in a startup but it doesn't make
sense to start most of it until you actually have something working.

~~~
yankees1
Non-technical stuff like having a clue on how to actually make some money,
maybe some domain expertise so you can actually solve a problem instead of
just doing something cool? Yeah those can wait.

Hackers who dismiss the importance of being able to pull together and organize
this type of work are just as bad as idea guys who think they can just get
anybody to do this "really simple thing"..

~~~
menloparkbum
I had the same experience as edw519.
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=215204>

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adrianwaj
You'll need both soon enough, then the question is who becomes the CEO out of
the tech founder and the business founder and when. If you can make the
business founder a CEO comfortably then that would be a plus.

~~~
BlueSkies
But who should come in at #2 versus #3? My thinking is that the business co-
founder might end up as CEO, but from what I've learned the simple title of
"co-founder" for everyone might work best at the early stages.

~~~
adrianwaj
Hire them both simultaneously if you can, and make the business person CEO.
Make sure he can pitch well and that he can manage you through growth having
shown such experience elsewhere.

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aneesh
1) Build the product 2) Sell the product

In that order. Get whoever you need to do that well.

~~~
ehedberg
That works great, unless you want to survive. The right order is 1) Build the
product 1) Sell the product. You won't know for sure what you're actually
building until you're trying to sell it and have prospects looking at it. And
if you're done building before you start selling, you a) won't have anything
somebody wants to buy and b) will be flat broke. Just sayin.

