
Ask HN: How do you deal with depression? - tokstesla
Please I will like to read your opinions on how to deal with depression.
======
ncmncm
The most important thing to know about depression is that it is an illness. It
has no moral dimension. Get treatment. People telling you to buck up and get
hold of yourself are much, much worse than useless.

The second most important thing to know is that "depression" is a label for at
least a half-dozen, probably more, unrelated illnesses. What helps with one
does nothing for another.

The third is that no matter what else you do, getting enough (but not too
much) sleep, and enough exercise, are essential. Lack of either makes all
varieties worse. But if you can't, do whatever you can. Sometimes just getting
up is a triumph. Savor each.

Psychiatrists have no other way to determine which kind you have than to try
various meds and see if any work. For some varieties no med works. Often a med
does no good below a certain dosage level, or until you have been taking it
for a month. Some work immediately. Most have annoying side effects that may
gradually fade.

Many people have more than one kind, and need to treat both or all. It may be
combined with other problems like anxiety.

Exercising, sleeping, and eating right can be hard, even prohibitively hard,
when you are ill. Don't beat yourself up over being ill. Do whatever you can,
now, and plan to do more when you can.

~~~
anm89
I hear the "depression is an illness" trope repeated over and over but I still
fail to understand what it means.

I'm sure for some definition of the word illness it's true. But it's certainly
not an illness in the way a cold or malaria or shingles or cystic fibrosis are
illnesses. Those things can be objectively diagnosed. They entail physical
measurable changes to a person's body.

Depression is a set of guidelines in a book that ask vague subjective
questions about how someone perceives the world. And then if the person
decides you have it you have it. If they don't you dont. This has very little
to do with the first scenario.

I'm not trying to trivialize depression. I think it is very real and very
serious. But I think the "illness" rehtoric is at best innacurate and at worst
seriously misleading and distracting to people who have serious issues to deal
with.

~~~
ExtremePopcorn
> I'm not trying to trivialize depression.

As someone who has been catatonically depressed for a couple years now, I'm
not so sure about this! People with chronic pain also often can't identify any
physical source, but obviously you would never start posting "is this really
an illness though?" or "aren't we distracting and misleading people??" in a
thread about that.

The undercurrent of your post is that depressed people need to snap out of it,
and falling back on the "illness" label reduces personal responsibility. Trust
me, many people feel like imposters claiming they have depression, despite
being completely non-functional. Thanks but no thanks to this proposed
contribution to the discourse.

Are you really here to understand, or is it just to judge? Want some MRIs and
EKGs of depressed brains?

~~~
anm89
> undercurrent of your post is that depressed people need to snap out of it,

Please point to where I say that. I explicitly do not say that. That's not an
undercurrent because I don't believe it.

I do also believe that people don't have zero agency in this problem. There is
SOME ability and necessity for people to work on these types of problems.
That's what therapy with a therapist is right?

And that does differentiate depression from tuberculosis which cannot ever be
improved by sitting down and talking about it.

~~~
ExtremePopcorn
Okay, my mistake for getting dragged into the archetypal HN argument. It's
clear you cannot be convinced. Your original point - that depression has no
biomarkers and is extremely subjective - has been proven wrong by a couple
others and you've shown no gratitude or interest in this information. Only
replying where you think there's an argument to be won.

Maybe you, some random person on Hacker News, are not in fact smarter than the
medical consensus?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc)

~~~
anm89
And again, I didn't say there are no biomarkers. I belive there are
biomarkers.

The idea that I'm not coddling your victimhood/ helpless mentality is
offensive to you, not any specific argument I'm making.

~~~
ExtremePopcorn
Uh no, sorry, it's the argument. You've been on this site for four years now -
be honest, have you ever seen someone with a lazy armchair opinion enter a
debate, receive strong pushback including scientific citations, and then
refuse to change their opinion? It's literally every fifth thread here. Though
imo, more fun when it's idiots telling tptacek he's wrong about security than
when it's someone a dick to someone with depression (my victim mentality!!)

But sure, let me actually respond to you:

* At no point have you acknowledged or shown any awareness that depression is not "one thing". Like how people discuss "curing cancer" as if that's any sort of meaningful statement. How complex do you think depression is? What point of complexity does something need to reach before you defer to experts? Depression is still more or less a black box (watch the Sapolsky video I linked or look up some starslatecodex articles on ketamine.) Again, no sign of awareness of this on your part, which suggests you haven't done the most basic research.

* Yep, you never said there are no biomarkers. You said:

> Depression is a set of guidelines in a book that ask vague subjective
> questions about how someone perceives the world. And then if the person
> decides you have it you have it. If they don't you dont. This has very
> little to do with the first scenario."

This was your reason for stating that depression wasn't an illness. That it
was based on a list of subjective questions. Sadly you didn't respond to the
person saying that this was equally true for schizophrenia. Is schizophrenia
an illness?

* I said it was an undercurrent, meaning subtext. Do you understand why subtext can't be quoted, and why that's work that you need to do for yourself? (If you somehow can quote subtext, though, immediately switch careers to political journalism, you'll be a wonder.)

* The only really offensive part was when you said "I do also believe that people don't have zero agency in this problem." Like, cool, a few sentences in and you've also added in a complete strawman to make yourself look reasonable. So this was just debate club to you.

The last point, combined with the fact that you're only responding when it
might let you feel superior, leads me to believe you're not here in any sort
of attempt to learn. How's your own mental health? You're clearly get some
need fulfilled by arguing on the internet, which generally isn't the best
sign. Watch that video, it's good, and absolutely full of things you do not
know.

------
loopz
General advice for a general question: The story often goes, if you're
depressed, you need to shape up, grit your teeth and take it in strides, just
brush it off. This is of course nonsense as a solitary advice.

What people often neglect is that circumstances in your life, sometimes beyond
your control, can in fact trap you into "a life you don't want" or the sort of
life where you're just existing, not really living. And if circumstances are
that powerful, the problems can both seem invisible and insurmountable.
Sometimes, we sort of get trained into living in a box! And then keep on
living like that even though circumstances may change!

So I believe it's important to reflect on what you really want, what interests
you, and pursue that. If that is a big fear to do in practice, no wonder.
Everybody would feel stuck if living on false premises, according to others'
specifications or avoidance of such. Ultimately, people need to feel in
control in their lives, even if just an illusion, when we do what we can we at
least feel better about trying. Failing is then part of learning.

Watching movies, playing games, gaming social media, don't really count, as
those activities become just a proxy for life if you don't pursue and utilize
yourself in some other way that truly count in your heart. And it's a life-
long road, where we often don't see the small steps we take into a bold new
direction leads.

------
thr0w3y
The question is why are you depressed before the question is how to deal with
being depressed.

For me, I was socially isolated, failed out of school, bullied at school, home
and work, unsuccessful with friends or women and kept getting laid off,
fighting with my coworkers and managers.

It wasn’t until I learned about Aspergers and did a detailed study on all the
problems people with Aspergers have that I understood all of my problems
stemmed from me likely being on the spectrum. Once I learned that, I was able
to understand why I was being targeted and why most people seemed to hate me
immediately within one conversation despite me thinking I did nothing wrong.
Then I was able to make adaptations for how to structure my life around the
fact that I was different.

If your problem is a minor chemical imbalance and you just need some vitamins,
a jog and rest - To me this isn’t really depression, as someone who was on and
off suicidally depressed for a decade.

For me: I was depressed because my life sucked. I could make the depression go
away temporarily but it always came back. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy really
Helped me.

After being told by teachers, my family, coworkers, people at school that I
was stupid, unlikeable and ugly etc it took me a long time to undo that
because I really believed it. CBT is about arguing with invasive negative
thinking and changing your filters into better ones.

When I get depressed now, I write down a plan to stop being depressed and go
through all the steps sequentially from simple to hard. Usually works, but
only if I start with easy things first.

~~~
tokstesla
Honestly, I'm sorry people treated you that way. I actually know the cause of
my depression and it's something I can't really solve at the moment unless a
miracle happens (that is if miracles exist). Thanks for your response

------
shade
If you're able (you have insurance/can afford to), the single best thing you
can do here is to see a professional. I've dealt with mild to moderate
depression on and off for most of my adult life; four years ago my wife
finally pushed me into seeing a professional, and I wish I'd done it 15 years
ago. Working with him gave me some of the tools I needed to re-frame my
thinking and break out of the sense of learned helplessness I was dealing
with.

Meditation, diet, sleep, and exercise can all help, but ultimately it was
talking to a professional that made the most difference; all those other
things have helped to sustain it since then.

------
DerDangDerDang
I found these articles incredibly helpful in learning to help myself. I have
no idea if they are factually correct, but the writer's way of reframing
depression as a process or system was a great way to get some distance from my
personal feelings in the moment, and allowed me to bring to bear familiar
mental tools to help get a feel for the complexity.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20050527074357/http://www.kuro5h...](https://web.archive.org/web/20050527074357/http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/9/83936/58483)

[https://web.archive.org/web/20050601015240/http://www.kuro5h...](https://web.archive.org/web/20050601015240/http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/5/16/81428/8007)

The ASCII graphs on the 'stress system' are fantastic, the rest IDK. Caveat
emptor.

~~~
tokstesla
Thanks, I will do well to read and digest those articles.

~~~
DerDangDerDang
I hope they help. For me the main take-away was that your brain needs rest,
which is not the same as recreation. Be kind to your brain and digest in
manageable chunks :)

------
thiago_fm
See a psychologist/psychiatrist.

Some advice here, such as exercising is good for the overall health of a human
being, but depression isn't simple as this. Other advice is quite sad, such as
"I eat a good stake" to avoid having a "dark mood". Depression is a serious
mental issue that needs proper treatment, it isn't a joke.

A professional will be able to give you better guidance about this, with
therapy and medicine.

------
xsmasher
Sorted out my sleep first. I started putting on free audiobooks at bedtime to
drown out "busy brain."

Once I was getting enough sleep, I could sort out my eating/weight and had
energy to exercise, which were big contributing factors.

Then meditation, to learn "you are not the voices in your head" and a touch of
stoicism to put your feelings in perspective.

~~~
tokstesla
Thanks

------
zwilliamson
I would recommend reading Michael Pollan's book, "How to Change Your Mind"
[https://michaelpollan.com/books/how-to-change-your-
mind/](https://michaelpollan.com/books/how-to-change-your-mind/)

He explores the new and old science behind Psychedelics and their ability to
cure depression, addiction and other aliments of the mind.

Another active study in this field; Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies (MAPS) [https://maps.org/](https://maps.org/)

------
egypturnash
I examined the rhythms of my depression and left Seattle for a much less
expensive, and much sunnier city. The number of times I have to take that
little inner voice who thinks suicide is a valid solution to my problems, pat
her on the head, and say "thank you for your lovely contribution, I will treat
it with the same seriousness I treat all your other suggestions"* has dropped
from one or more times a day to... I think maybe once or twice in the entire
half a year since I left Seattle?

A sun lamp helped some. So did lots of vitamin D. So did exercise. Pole dance,
to be precise, I need to get back into that now that I'm settled. But it
helped less and less every year, to the point where I felt like I only had a
few years left before I'd be at serious risk of acting on that voice's
suggestions.

Previously I also dealt with depression by staring my gender dysphoria in the
face and taking a lot of hormones to persuade my body to get to the point
where nobody thinks twice about giving me my preferred pronouns. Things were
pretty good until I moved to places where there was Real Winter.

Dissect your depression. Analyze it. Listen to it - maybe even name it, that
suicidal urge had a name borrowed from an old RPG character who did a lot of
self-harm stuff. When you come to the conclusion that a lot of your depression
comes from trying to deal with a particular Horrible Thing, then work on
changing your life so that Horrible Thing is not part of it any more.

Oh yeah. Meditation can be valuable too. Just sit and watch your thoughts pass
through you, if you catch one running away with you then just shrug, remind
yourself "silence!" and get back to trying to empty your mind. Do it every
day, or as close to every day as possible. This will give you a lot of
training in recognizing different parts of your brain, detaching from unwanted
trains of thought, and otherwise managing your brain. You will probably suck
at first. Allow yourself to do this, celebrate getting better.

* which is to say "dismiss it and get on with my life as best I can despite being pretty miserable"; this little mental exercise of treating that urge as a separate personality and telling her that I did, indeed, hear her idea helped me dismiss it when it came up instead of spending ages going around in a mopey rut.

------
RoyTyrell
For me, exercise and trying to re-frame my situation helps. I believe even if
your exercise is just a 30min walk, it's better than sitting at home
ruminating about things.

By re-framing I mean trying to rethink my situation from a third party or what
I'd say if a friend told me about their life and how they feel. I think for a
lot people, they can be their own worst critic.

I have used meditation in the past with Headspace. It helped me a lot during
some really low points. I started therapy a few weeks after meditation and my
therapist was very supportive of it. I'm not going to claim mediation is a
cure-all but it definitely helps the "re-framing" and rumination.

Also if you have some friends or family to hang out with, try do it. Even if
you have to force yourself to go and you don't interact with them much, I
believe it's better than being alone in your darker times.

------
clSTophEjUdRanu
Don't self-medicate. Not with pills, not with CBD, not with weed, not with
anything.

Talk to a mental health professional.

Take care of yourself.

~~~
tokstesla
I just tried looking myself in the mirror and giving myself reasons to live.

~~~
trumbitta2
Talk to a professional and ask them the same question. Find a professional
that operates under this branch:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_psychology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_psychology)

------
derrick_jensen
Cardio helps a lot for me personally. I'm a firm believer that most people
(myself included) don't get enough exercise when compared to hundreds of years
ago. It gives me a dedicated hour or two block of time to listen to podcasts,
and exercise in general is healthy anyways so its a win-win.

~~~
jammygit
What style of cardio do people like? Some people have knee issues for example,
or long winters. What do they do?

~~~
murm
I skip rope. I like these muay thai-style jump ropes[0] with thick pvc-tube
because I find it annoying when a slim rope gets tangled and I have to stop
and start jumping again.

Maybe not the best style if you have knee issues though...

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Fairtex-Thai-Style-Jump-
Rope/dp/B009Q...](https://www.amazon.com/Fairtex-Thai-Style-Jump-
Rope/dp/B009QYOWZK)

------
xupybd
This is from my personal experience, I have no qualification or experience
that would allow me to help someone else.

First what depression was for me was a lack of positive emotion. Not that I
felt sad all the time or that I was always down. It was just nothing felt
good. I could eat something nice, do something for someone, watch a great
movie and I felt nothing.

This was not so bad at first but as the months rolled past it got very hard to
live with. Nothing motivated me. I didn't want to get up and do anything. Why
do anything there was no positive feedback to do anything.

But I did. For some reason I kept my routine. I worked as hard as I could.
Probably about 70% of my normal. But I just kept going. There was something in
me that said this can't last forever. I was getting suicidal and was
struggling to keep going but I just kept one foot in front of the other. Not
thinking about much other than the day ahead.

Relationships were hard, I didn't have much patience for others. But I lived
in close quarters with people, kept my job and maintained church commitments.
I just kept going.

My hope was that one day things would get better and I didn't want to wake up
one day finding I'd walked away from everything just to find things had gotten
better. You know what they did! They got so much better. It took a year or so
and little things started to feel good again. I was so happy when they did
that things just spiraled upwards.

I've learnt a thing or two about my emotions and thoughts. Trying to keep from
becoming fed up and down seems to stop me rolling back to that depressed
state.

Looking back I think it was the routine that pulled me out. It was the keeping
on going that gave me something to think about, instead of the negative
thoughts. I couldn't create positive feedback but I could stop the negative (a
little bit).

Other people have it way harder than I ever did and I don't want to say they
could do the same thing but I do think that there is reason to have hope. Hope
wont make you feel better but it can keep you going 'till you do.

------
Trias11
My depression ended when i found a fullfilling, well paid job.

Then i remembered a wise one said that opposite of depression = expression.

So when you express yourself fully - depression falls off.

That is exactly what happened to me after ~10 yrs of depression.

~~~
dmos62
Beware of expressing built-up anger. Contrary to mainstream thought, it can be
a really big problem in various areas of your life, especially your
interpersonal relations.

Usually, the real cause of the anger evades us (that's why we've so much of it
built up), and we can't express it constructively (if that's possible at all).
A big realization for me was that even though I feet somewhat better letting
my lid blow off and unloading on a person, it's very destructive (before I
persistently ignored that, justifying my anger as righteous), and it's not a
treatment for what caused it.

I guess if I had to summarize my realization in one sentence, I'd say that I
realized that there were things I didn't want to acknowledge and feelings
about myself and others that I wanted to push out of myself, and that this
resistance was what caused the inner turmoil and anger. When I started
consciously trying to stay with the "bad" feelings, instead of reject them,
things started to change.

------
badrabbit
Ok,so the answer is simple but difficult:hope.

I won't tell you what to hope in or how but hope cures depression. And by that
I mean psychological depression,as I understand clinical depression has more
to do with neurological and biochemical imbalance (for which you should seek
out a legitimate psychiatrist).

I was actually thinking of submitting a similar question but about mental
health in general(will do that another time).

But yeah,what I've learned is that hope is easy to come by but it carries with
it risk where you hope but what you hoped for does not turn out well. If you
can accept that risk,it will resolve what most people call depression at it's
root where most other medication and therapy address symptoms first and maybe
get to the root cause later.

I think educated and technical people are more susceptible to depression
because they rationalize and analyze away hope much more readily than less
educated people.

Other people mentioned getting enough sleep,excercise,hydration,good diet. And
I'd also like to add on that a healthy relationship with your ownself and
others. These all help but as someone who has struggled most of my adult life
with depression and having desparately tried all these things my opinion is to
prioritize hope.

A few years ago I had so much hope and as a result I lost a lot of weight,ate
healthy all the time,slept better and relationships with people started to
improve. I had a goal,something to look forward to,something I needed to get
ready for and improve myself.

It was amazing,I may have had been sad once in a while but the horrible
crippling depression went away.

I am not an expert,I just know I spent years isolated,not wanting to clean up
after myself or even maintain basic hygeine at some point. It was unreal how
this mental issue was causing physical pain and so many other side-effects.
And I also saw what helped me,and it turns out actual psychologists also
support my hope theory. Even if the hope is irrational ,is rational depression
better? Of course everyone has a different story. I hope sharing my experience
will help you and do let me know if you have any questions,this sickness stole
most of my life,I hope you fight hard so you will never be in my shoes.

------
altsyset
Here is what has worked for me. But beware, I am not a psychiatrist so take my
suggestion with a grain of salt.

First, let me tell you about my living situation and environment. I believe
those two are very important in making these kinds of decisions. I live in a
very tightly neat society. I meet my parents, and friends most often. But I
was really good at hiding my situation. That made my problem worse. Why?
Because, no one knew what I was dealing with. Everyone would realize I'm
missing for a couple of days but they all figured I was busy. But I was going
through hell.

I have tried various ways of threatening myself. Seeking professional advice
is out of the question for me as I live an average life in a developing
country.

So I gave up. But one day I decided to take a walk. It gave me a breather. So
I did it again, this time longer. By the time I came up from my long walks I
would be tired so I would eat and fall asleep.

This continued for months and years. Each time making my walks longer and
longer, untill I would get so tired that all I wanted to do was eat and sleep.

I have been doing that for more than 3 years now. I feel active now and I have
added Taekwando to my exercise too. At the same time period, I got the courage
to marry my girl friend. Now we are having a baby.

I don't believe that I don't get depressed any more. Or may be I was never
depressed in the first place as bad as other people. But I don't lock myself
in my room for days thinking about death anymore.

------
lxwyndxl
Hey tokstesla, I've helped people overcome depression.

It depends on how depressed you are and also evaluating whether it's clinical.
A combination of medicine and extracurricular activities will get your life
back on track!

I know you mentioned that you were looking for non$$ solutions but hear me
out:

An overly simplified analogy to depression is like diabetes. Your body does
not produce the right chemicals to process things. In the case of diabetes,
it's insulin. For depression, there's some imbalance of serotonin or dopamine.

With diabetes, you must control your sugar intake via exercise, eating fewer
carbs, fewer desserts, etc. With depression, a lot of same applies such as
more exercise, meditation, journaling, etc.

If you had diabetes and all you did was limiting your sugar intake, then most
doctors will say that's not enough. You must take insulin. Depression is
similar. If it's clinical, behavioral therapy will definitely help, but you
need to balance your chemicals.

If you need to chat more, let me know! I don't see a chat feature here, but we
can find a way.

~~~
tokstesla
Thanks for your concern. I think my cause of depression is just my inability
to meet up with my financial responsibility. My Skype ID is okehdom

------
friendlybus
Very broad question. Go to therapy or call a hotline and see if it helps you.

What worked for me is letting go of therapy and focusing instead on what
matters to me, or my self/character/personality/whatever you want to call it.
There are some things in the world you can't control so focus on what you can
control. Win your own small battles one at a time, they build up.

------
nightchalk16
I used acetylcysteine.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3044191/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3044191/)

This stuff helped very well.

Depression is a biochemical problem in your brain. It needs a biochemical
solution. It is impossible to rationalize your way out of a depression. You
cannot cure a depression by choosing behaviour.

Thinking about gyroscopes will not enable you to walk a straight line when
drunk! Trying to cure a depression by choosing thoughts or behaviour is
futile.

Also have a look at Amber O'Hearn: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhxeVU-
vT3Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhxeVU-vT3Q) Her mood disorder went away
when she changed her diet.

~~~
tokstesla
Thanks

------
sdiq
This is for those saying depression is not an illness.

[https://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november9/videos/653.htm...](https://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november9/videos/653.html)

~~~
ncmncm
Robert Sapolsky wrote the most astonishing book I ever read. It had a dumb
title, something about zebras, but it was a tour of endocrinology.
Endocrinologists have thd hardest problem in all biology.

------
in3d
Assuming you’ve tried conventional anti-depressants and you’re in the US, have
a look into ketamine treatments. Studies show dramatic results for a good
percentage of people and a good safety profile (shorter term at least). They
are expensive.

~~~
tokstesla
Thanks for your contribution! It's just that I will be more appreciative if
the solution doesn't involve spending money.

------
samuraiseoul
I would for sure talk to your doctor about it. Normally your doctor can
recommend medicine and services such as a psychologist(more talk therapy) or
psychiatrist(more prescription based) that will work with them and be in your
insurance network if that's a thing you need to worry about.

That said, I would do a lot of research before going in, but do see your
doctor for sure. I say do research because depression can be a symptom of
other things such as Bipolar type II or Cyclothymic disorder. Hypomania is the
main hallmark that you would look into with those. I would also read and be
prepared to talk to your doctor about anxiety symptoms as well as panic attack
or ptsd symptoms. You may not have them but knowing the signs can help as
depression can easily present with those, and you may need treatment for more
than one thing to feel better.

Knowledge is power in this case. Jobs in IT and doctors are similar in some
regards. Someone comes to us with a problem and we need to fix it. The more
they know(symptom identification) and the better they can articulate why they
think they may have some condition the easier it is to diagnose and fix a
problem. Also both professions start with 'safe' treatments. We reboot the
computer first, they try for pills or treatments with few to no side effects.
We also go for the most obvious diagnoses first before getting into the
esoteric,(the power is unplugged rather than the cable to supply power to the
motherboard being bad) just like a doctor would go for depression rather than
bipolar II for instance as that's the more common path.

I ran across this when I was suffering from some depression and was trying to
see how other devs deal with it. It outlines some emotions and feelings about
it, but also talks about bipolar type II and adhd.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFIa-
Mc2KSk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFIa-Mc2KSk)

I hope this helps and feel free to reach out if you have questions. I'm still
dealing with it myself so I get how hard it can be. It's not a failing of
character or anything like that. It's a medical condition and should be
monitored and treated as such by your doctor.

Hope you feel better soon!

------
nashashmi
Lots of exercise. Gets a whole bunch of chemicals in your brain to flow again.
Some of those chemicals cause depression. But they need to come out of the
system (eventually).

Lots of water. Drink water when you are tired. When angry. When sad. When
bored. When excited. When energetic. Removes toxic chemicals in the body.

Good thoughts. Great thoughts. Speak to a psychologist. Read a book. I did.

Arrogance hides away anger. Anger hides away sadness. Sadness hides away
attitude of helplessness. Helplessness is lack of resourcefulness. So be
resourceful.

Forgive. Forget. Move on.

Lower expectations of yourself.

Increase appreciation of others, and of yourself.

Lots of sleep. Depressed people sleep a lot. But your sleep needs to be
strictly regulated.

~~~
psv1
I think that this kind of advice is based in stuff that's actually helpful
(like taking care of your body) but is ultimately useless to anyone who is
actually struggling with depression.

> Good thoughts. Great thoughts. ...

> Arrogance hides away anger. Anger hides away sadness. Sadness hides away
> attitude of helplessness. Helplessness is lack of resourcefulness. So be
> resourceful.

This reads like Trump and Yoda merged into one.

------
LeonB
Here’s some preventative ideas (that are still worth doing when you have
depression) — [http://wiki.secretgeek.net/protective-factors-for-mental-
hea...](http://wiki.secretgeek.net/protective-factors-for-mental-health)

Also CBT/ACT are worth studying. (Cognitive behavioral therapy/ Acceptance and
commitment therapy). I’ve written a little bit about them here:
[http://wiki.secretgeek.net/cognitive-behavioral-
therapy](http://wiki.secretgeek.net/cognitive-behavioral-therapy)

------
samsudden
I found David Burns' 'The Feeling Good Handbook' an invaluable resource while
coping with depression and probably the factor that helped the most. Others
probably were removing stress (changed from a job which was just not working
for me), getting longer sleep hours, regular exercise, getting more sunlight,
5-10 minutes meditation and reading books encouraging a positive outlook and
gratitude such as 'Search Inside Yourself'.

------
murm
There are many ways to depression, and my depression seems to stem from my
constant nagging feeling of existential meaninglessness. This has been going
on for varying intensity for something like a decade now, but I feel like I'm
finally coming to grips with it.

For all my adult life I feel like I haven't got a clue why I'm here on this
planet, and as a result been just slowly drifting to places in life where I
don't want to be. The resulting depressed mood certainly seems to make the
world look a lot more bleak than it really is, and making changes to my life
has felt like an impossible task. However, these past few years I feel like
I've been getting some real progress. I've been trying to follow all the usual
advice to a tee, and in my case they have helped:

    
    
      * precise sleep patterns, 8h of sleep same time every day
      * stretching, regular exercise (both cardio and lifting)
      * fixing diet: removing sugar, grains, excess carbs, all the common "bad" stuff. Basically something like a vegetarian-mediterranean diet.
      * daily 20 min meditation
      * daily journaling
      * very little alcohol, only couple of drinks now and then and preferably in a social setting
      * no smartphone
      * no social media
      * no porn
      * trying to avoid reading news
      * spending time in nature when possible
      * no cannabis (I tried to use this as a crutch but for me it didn't help, only makes things worse)
      * no other drugs[0]
    

I haven't sought professional help, but watching Jordan Petersons lectures
have given me some ideas and tools what to try out (he is a clinical
psychologist, after all?). Specifically, right now my goal is to figure out a
clear plan for a life that I would like to live, which would hopefully end
this existential dread and give my existence a clear sense of purpose.

[0] Only exception to drugs has been psilocybin mushrooms, which I microdose
when I feel like I'm especially deep in the hole. This really helps for a
little while, but I hold no delusions that I could just continue living my
life like this and endure it with drugs.

------
throwawaydeptr
I suffer from depression and anxiety.

I have never sought professional help, mainly because of the cost, time, and
shame. If you can, of course, get professional help, but since you asked me
how I treat it, here it is.

First, one of the main reasons why I felt that depression was not meeting my
parents' expectations. There is always someone better than me and my parents
always compared our successes, directly or indirectly.

Then I had a great religious crisis when I learned about truly evil and
disgusting human behaviors. It simply made me lose my faith in God and in
humans.

And finally I was never good with the opposite sex. Although I had many
friends, I still slept alone.

At one point, in my life I simply didn't see any point in it. I realized that
I can never make my parents proud, there is no God and humans are evil, and I
will never find love.

I exercised regularly and ate decent. There was no need to add more exercise
to fight depression.

I had some thoughts about suicide but nothing serious. It scared me though and
I began to enter Buddhism and meditation. But Eastern philosophy did not work
for my logical mind. The meditation was too boring for me.

That's when I discovered stoicism, it seemed to click better with me. Almost
at the same time, I also found an online CBT software that also helped my
anxiety.

Then, after trial and error, I developed an external observer mentality. I
think of life as a boring video game. I think of money as points of video
games. And I only focus on getting the maximum scores. I know this sounds
superficial, but it helps me on difficult days.

Before this mentality, I was changing jobs without thinking about career
change in general. Now I am very strategic and I progressed a lot in my
career.

I really don't care about my parents' approval anymore and they seem to
respect me more. When I stopped chasing the opposite sex, I started to attract
them and now I am happily married. I still see the world as a dark place and
this is something I still struggle with.

But I have to play this video game, control my character, and try to get a
high score. My character needs sleep and exercise to keep its mind sharp for
work. My character must do chores and do nice things for spouse or spouse will
leave it.

Life is just a video game.

------
cannaceo
In my work life: Shove that shit down deep and keep going. I used to let my
emotions ruin my consistency but I learned to ignore my emotions at work.

In my personal life: A combination of medication(light dose Adderall and
depakote), exercise, and appropriate sleep. See a therapist weekly.

I'm diagnosed bipolar and spend almost all my time in depression.

------
smacktoward
Exercise. Therapy. Medication.

There are other ways to cope with depression (alcohol, for instance), but
these are the healthy ones.

------
cairo_x
Best thing I did was give up coffee.

edit: Eases up the mood swings (TBH, I'm probably just in a stable phase
(which gave me the will to stop coffee in the first place), but stopping wild
upswings in mood with coffee cessation seems to have greatly muffled the back
swings. touch wood touch wood touch wood.)

~~~
throwaway1954
What do you drink now instead?

I'm also in the process of quitting coffee, I used to drink coffee very
heavily (3-4 cups per day) and lots of soda, but it was affecting my mood too
much.

~~~
cairo_x
Cocoa in hot water with stevia. I still need something black in the morning.
Cocoa does have caffeine, but it's really not that much, even compared to tea.

I'll also have a tea in the middle of the day if I start feeling super dopey.
The problem, as far as I can tell, isn't the caffeine, it's the amount in
single+closely followed consecutive doses... I guess.

Other than that, Camomile and mint. There are a bunch of other fancy herbal
alternatives but, those three are a good enough variety for me.

------
akeck
Best general advice I've heard:

Get professional help if possible: Get meds and find a good counselor

Get the Big Three in order (Food, Sleep, Exercise): Eat healthy (e.g., DASH
diet), get 8-9h sleep, get daily aerobic exercise (with a little anaerobic)
and at least weekly strength training.

~~~
tokstesla
I will really appreciate an advice that won't come with spending money. Thanks
for your response.

------
garrickvanburen
I have a portfolio of things that I’ve found work for me. Provided I do any 2
each day, I’m in good shape.

\- Regular long distance runs (5-10miles), \- morning pages, \- meditation, \-
zinc, magnesium, fish oil, \- professional help.

------
Simulacra
Cannabis. It helps me forget thoughts of loneliness, failure, and suicide.

------
trumbitta2
There's just one way of dealing with depression: speaking with a psychologist
or - if the psychologist suggests it - going to a psychiatrist.

------
jammygit
Make your bed nicely every day. Whatever else happens, you’ll have a made up
bed whenever you glance at the room and at the end of the day

~~~
tokstesla
Have always made my bed properly. Thanks for your contribution.

------
fargle
I eat a good steak. I'm not kidding or trivializing. But if I get busy and I'm
always stressed out maybe trying to cut calories, after I while my mood gets
dark. Sometimes, I have found its not just stress. I just need a good steak or
burger. My metabolism does NOT liking going more than a few weeks without a
serious protein hit. And it needn't be an unhealthy frequency or amount.

So YMMV, but sometimes a big part of metal health can be adjusting what you
eat and drink.

~~~
tokstesla
I usually use the "eating therapy", but I can't really afford eating what I
want and stuff. Thanks for your response.

~~~
fargle
Just to be clear, I'm not say comfort eating. It's that I need protein. If I
couldn't afford a steak, the cheap option is liver and onions.

~~~
tokstesla
Ok

------
Maxtylor
Just think about different things, but if you still don't, you'll be
depressed. Someday time will be solved.

------
ssxxaa
Inflammation has a lot to do with depression. The most anti-inflammatory diet
you can follow is a whole food vegan diet.

------
chukione
since i decide to end my life, mi thoughs are more paceful and less
disturbing. im planning in december take a lethal dose of nembutal. all in my
life is shit, and i get tired of.

------
rdiddly
Exercise is pretty much the number one thing.

------
billconan
the most effective thing I have tried is leaving social network, focusing on
personal growth.

drawing is also therapeutic.

~~~
tokstesla
I recently cut off from social media to try focusing on fixing my life. Thanks
for the response. Will try drawing

------
sixothree
Not very well.

~~~
richardknop
Similar here.

------
chimichangga
1\. Listen to Van Halen 2\. Regular Positive Affirmation aka Cognitive
Behavioural Therapy 3\. Exercise / Sports 4\. Practice Stoicism

~~~
mythrwy
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYN7mTi6HM)

It's hard to be depressed when you are doubled over with laughter?

------
pmoriarty
One thing that's helped me is journaling. I used to write by hand, but find
doing so too slow, even when I type.. so in recent years I've taken to
recording my thoughts in on a voice recorder (though a smart phone with a
voice recording app would probably serve just as well). What I say is
completely private, and meant for no one's consumption but my own, though I
very rarely even review what I said. I talk about what's been happening in my
life, my concerns, and my thoughts on various subjects.

It's much like therapy, though of course without a therapist's comments or
insights, so it's not quite as good, but I still find it very helpful to talk
through what's been going on with me.. and sometimes I even come to novel
conclusions and insights through this process.. thoughts and perspectives I
did not have before I started.

Othre things that help are listening to positive, energetic music, going
outside on bright, sunny days, spending time in nature, eating a healthy diet
(including supplements like D3 and B12 that I don't get enough of in my life
otherwise), and exercise. Talking to interesting, friendly people helps, as
does having a fulfilling job that pays enough to pay for the basic necessities
and keep me from living on the streets. Occasional treats that make me feel
better afterwards (as opposed to ones that feel good in the moment but awful
or guilty afterwards).

I like to visit libraries a lot (particularly academic libraries), and often
feel at peace there, lost among the greatest minds the world has ever seen,
all at my beck and call, willing to share their experience and wisdom as I
become ready to learn what they have to teach.

Computer games can also be de-stressing and distracting, thought when they're
really good it's too easy to slip in to addiction, which could have adverse
consequences if one plays them to the neglect of other important aspects of
one's life.

Something else that helps is meditation (of the simply focusing on one's
breath type). Avoiding toxic people who try to drag you down with them helps.
Learning to enjoy your own company and like yourself instead of loathing
yourself helps.

Sometimes talking to someone at a crisis hotline helps (if you're lucky enough
to get someone good on the phone). Finding a good therapist you like, respect,
and trust, and to whom you can do the hard work of opening up to is of course
wonderful as well.

That said, some days nothing helps (or you are just too depressed to do any of
those things that help, or forget about them), and you just have to ride out
the feelings and try to take comfort in the recognition that those feelings
are not permanent, and you will feel better sometime in the future. Having
ridden out many such days in the past helps. As the saying goes, time heals
all wounds.

------
ta0987
here's a thorough blog post "Things That Sometimes Help If You Have
Depression" from a (pseudonymous) psychiatrist:
[https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-
sometimes-...](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-
help-if-youre-depressed/)

(The less medical-system dependent stuff is in the last section, not that you
should avoid the medical system but if you're asking here on HN and not in a
doctor's office that seems like what you might be looking for)

------
seventhtiger
Depression can be divided into two categories: with cause and without cause.

If you're depressed with cause, because you're unemployed, in a difficult
position, you broke up, a loved one died, you fought with your friend, etc.
then the usual advice does actually work. This depression makes sense and is
totally normal. First, give your grief time, and second, actually force
yourself to smile, go for a walk, or get a puppy. This depression is
inherently temporary and you can speed the recovery along.

The thing is about depression with cause is that the cause may be ongoing. If
you feel unfulfilled, if you're anxious, if you're suffering from addiction or
illness, if people are abusing you, then of course you're depressed.
Depression is a symptom. You don't need antidepressants you need to remove the
cause.

Depression without cause is completely different which is why most people's
advice is bad. They really did overcome depression, but a different kind. If
your depression happens for no reason, even when things are going well, just
randomly, or on a cycle, then you have to think about depression management.
There is no total recovery but you can minimize it until its interference with
your life is minimal.

The biology and psychology of depression including the two types above are
discussed in Stanford's Sapolsky on depression (50 min lecture on YouTube).

Here's my personal ongoing experience with depression:

medicine worked for others but not for me. The side effects were worse than
the depression. Things like sleep, exercise, time with friends, and nutrition
seem to shorten the depressive episodes but they do not eliminate them. I plan
around my inevitable next episode.

I have leave days set up, an understanding doctor's phone number, and my
boss's understanding that I may suddenly take a couple of days sick leave for
medical reasons. I call my friends and cancel way ahead of time. I have at-
home hobbies to keep me busy. I eliminate my obligations because I wouldn't be
able to keep them anyway and failing all my obligations every episode makes it
worse every time. If I get depressed on vacation at least I don't feel guilty
on top.

Speaking of which I get more depressed during vacations and weekends. Routine
and commitments at work generally work against depression. So when I have
nothing planned to do and I was expecting to myself to motivate myself to do
something fun this is when depressive episodes happen most commonly. So even
when I have nothing to do I keep a routine and I create commitments. I know
this is in contrast to cancelling all my commitments when I'm depressed but
it's true. When I'm not depressed my commitments keep me going so I make sure
I'm always committed and I never have to rely on self-drive in the moment. I
make plans with friends and book events and schedule things.

Anyway it's an ongoing thing and I've accepted it's never going away. I'm
going to try a course of ketamine soon and I'll see how it goes but I'm not
very hopeful. Even though I'm not depressed any less, more and more I am
learning how to live my life despite depression.

------
not_a_cop75
Keep up on Fish Oil Supplements. I forget where I read it, but there was a
publication which attributed depression to living far from the coast. From
there the idea circulated that a fish based diet would be beneficial. Omega3
fats are generally beneficial, but have as I have experienced acted as a mild
anti-depressant.

Also, exercise. Do something outside of work that requires physical exertion,
even if it's just walking.

