
Ask HN: What steps can I take to earn $250K+? - vbtemp
If I were to work backwards from the goal of making a salary at $250K+, what would they be?<p>Given context, I&#x27;m an MS in computer science, about a decade of experience in software development (both in R&amp;D and production systems, embedded to cloud). Currently, I&#x27;m $100K&#x2F;yr shy of my goal.<p>In the end, my goal is to have a strong enough salary to raise a family in financial security, and be in a position such that my spouse works because she wants to, not has to. Look forward to the discussion!<p>(Note, Location is high-COL big-metro east coast city)
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panda888888
Step 1: Move to Seattle and find a job there. Purchasing power there is 38%
higher than NYC. We'll say that your salary stays at 150k, but you'll
realistically feel like you have 38% more. (Source:
[https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-
living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=New+York%2C+NY&country2=United+States&city2=Seattle%2C+WA))

Step 2: Buy a house in Tacoma. Don't buy in Seattle; the market there is in a
bubble. Tacoma is an up-and-coming suburb. Cost will be ~300k for a livable
house, or 400k if you want a nicer one. (Example:
[https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Tacoma-
WA/49299981_zpi...](https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Tacoma-
WA/49299981_zpid/27362_rid/3-_beds/50000-400000_price/199-1596_mp/globalrelevanceex_sort/47.291136,-122.46696,47.259748,-122.522407_rect/13_zm/0_mmm/)).

You'll have an hour commute but that's not too bad if you're used to east
coast commutes and traffic. If you buy a house close to one of the train
stations, you can take the commuter train to downtown Seattle so you won't
have to drive.

Step 3: Save as much as you can for kids' college/retirement/whatever.

Sounds pretty livable to me.

~~~
koolba
$400K for a 1700 sqft house with no yard and a one hour commute sounds
terrible.

~~~
panda888888
A $400k house and a 1 hour commute is better than 1.2 million house and 30 min
commute (comparing living in Tacoma to living in Seattle).

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WheelsAtLarge
Start by looking around you and look at who is making 250k+. You'll see that
they have control of a lot of resources relative to those that don't. They
also have more responsibility than those that don't. Also, some bring in more
cash to the company than those who don't. If they get paid 250k then they
bring in at least that much in profits, directly or indirectly. So look for
those jobs and aim for them. You'll need to plan your strategy to get from now
to the job you want. Get the education you need or the experience you need. If
it's experience you need then look for it in your company or move to another
that will give you the experience.

Always look for a job that will bring you one step closer to your goal. Start
to move up the ladder. Are you a programmer? Then look for a higher level
programmer job. Do you want to be a CTO? Then start managing teams. Remember
experience is more important than pay. If it's a move up then low pay for that
position is ok for a time. As you gain experience you can get a higher paying
job somewhere else.

Network, you need to make sure you're comfortable and friendly with
management. If they know your skills and you then they are more likely to move
you up or even recommend you for a new position. Also, look for friends that
are already doing the job you want. Join organizations where you are likely to
make the right contacts.

Be ready to move, having a broad area to search for a job makes it easier to
get both pay and experience. Also, the higher the pay then the lower the
number of jobs that pay the higher wage.

You can also go the consulting route. 250k regular job with benefits is about
$250/hr as an independent consultant but it's harder to continuously get
companies that will pay that. Also, technology shifts and it's harder to
always be the expert that companies want to hire at that range.

~~~
ramblerman
> Start by looking around you and look at who is making 250k+

Is this common knowledge where you work?

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throwawaymath
Any of these companies will get you to $250k+ annual compensation in 0 - 3
years, depending on your current experience.

Tech:

\- Google

\- Facebook

\- Salesforce

\- Bloomberg

Finance:

\- Renaissance Technologies

\- DE Shaw

\- Citadel

\- Two Sigma

Since you're already on the East Coast, if you're presently located in - or
can easily relocate to - the NYC metro area, getting hired at one of these
companies is probably the most straightforward path to that goal.
Entrepreneurship and consulting can also get you there, but that's a less
straightforward path. These aren't the only companies either, mind you, these
are just the ones I'm personally familiar with.

Particularly towards the financial side of things, it wouldn't be outlandish
to earn significantly more than that in first year compensation if you're
placed on the right team. Considering you already have a decade of experience
and a graduate degree in computer science, if you do well on the interview I'd
estimate you'd reach your goal somewhere between immediately and 1.5 years in.

~~~
minhazm423
But how do you get to the point where you're even attractive to these
companies? Without being from a target school or having an insane number of
years of experience?

Also the finance companies, you mean a job in the front right? Programming
tools or whatever?

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aminotaa
I have no idea about the east coast labor market, but in Bay Area $250k is
what an I4-I5 gets payed at medium/large RSU granting companies.

As a software developer at I4+ you have to

\- Be able to independently complete start-to-finish large features in
reasonable time

\- Drive resolution of complex problems (fix any bugs with your code and
medium bugs elsewhere)

\- Deliver high-quality work (low bug rate, low failure rate, high
flexibility, great coding style, automation, documentation)

\- Introduce improvement ideas and get them implemented (gets harder the more
people get involved)

\- Own a functional area end-to-end

\- Have product-wide technical and functional knowledge (know everything that
your department is working on from both developer and customer perspectives)

\- Mentor junior engineers

\- Excel at communication

\- Participate in recruiting

If you can demonstrate the above, you should have no problems getting hired at
$250k+ in Bay Area.

Getting to above $500k is another story. Took me 20 years.

~~~
ryanx435
RSU is "restricted stock unit"?

so basically you get equity worth 250k. But what is the actual take home pay
amount?

~~~
aminotaa
For individual contributors, equity and bonus range from 50% to 100% of base.

For leadership, equity and bonus are from 100% to 300%.

For senior leadership you might as well have your base at $1 if you are into
those kinds of stunts.

------
makingbank
My experience:

20+ years in specialized field.

All of that at large well-known tech companies in high COL areas.

Took about 15 years to break though $200k total comp.

Doubled to $400+k by moving to a company with large RSU grants relative to
base pay, and got that by negotiating hard.

My refresh grants have been declining because my performance has been good
rather than outstanding, but with moderate stock price growth I don’t see a
problem continuing to report $400k total comp in my current position.

I’m considering moving to one of two other large tech companies where I have
been told I should easily be able to increase that to $500k, and probably
$600k+ if I am seen as successful.

At $200k in the Bay Area I felt like buying property was out of the question,
but at $400k it was very doable with enough spare cash to feel like I can
enjoy the area.

Having said that, a lot of the delta between those two points goes to taxes.

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sloaken
To restate your goal: It is to be able to easily afford to raise a family. The
250K is all relative.

If you still think you need $250, search for the Highest COL area, (like
switzerland etc) and get a job there.

If you desire to raise a family, then I would recommend

1) find a low Cost Of Living area and try to find a job there. You will take a
paycut, but try to make it loss less than the COL delta.

2) when comparing COL be sure to plug in what you really spend money on. Back
25 years ago I was going to move from Orlando to Raleigh, but the company
offer said the COL delta was enough of a raise (10%). Researching the data
used, it was true, if I smoked 2 packs and drank a quart of whiskey each and
every day. Otherwise the cost of living was equal.

3) Re examine what you think you need to raise a family and what you really
need. If you do, you will find you can live on a lot less.

<soap box time> Over the years people talk about this person or that person
being rich. And how they need to pay more in. Odds are if you are reading
this, you are rich. If your choice each day is: what do I want to eat,
followed by where can I find that food - then you are rich. If your plan is to
eat something at home, or maybe buy at the store and then fix it at home -
then you are middle class. If you are not sure if you can afford to eat, and
not because you are too lazy to get the food - then you are poor. <end soap
box>

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throwaway713824
If you're already making $150k, get a remote job for $100k. Remote can be a
bit more competitive to land, but there are some low paying companies out
there who's hiring is comparatively loose.

Ideally, your main job is low effort giving you time during your day for some
moonlighting. Or get two remote jobs. Yes, I'm proposing working too jobs
concurrently. Some people find this objectionable, but for salary positions I
don't. IF neither job keeps you busy, why not?

Edit; Low performing teams in low performing organizations rarely require 4
hours of effort per day. If you do get 4 hours of good effort in these places,
you're still a super star. One could easily do 40 hours a week and excel at
both. Check your assumptions.

Bottom line is if you're capable in this profession, you're leaving money on
the table.

~~~
throwawaymath
The creativity coming out in this thread in order to sidestep the _spirit_ of
OP's question is remarkable. First we had comments talking about reframing the
problem as one of cost of living, now the top comment is recommending working
two jobs concurrently as a remote employee...what the hell.

OP clearly meant $250k at a single company. It would be nice if we didn't
respond to that request by trying to interpret it as some sort of shitty X-Y
problem like StackExchange. OP is (probably) an adult. Let's give them the
benefit of the doubt that they don't need a weird lecture about how they're
leaving money on the table and should abuse remote employement in response.

On a more practical note, there are two problems with your recommendation.
First and foremost, many (most?) companies have an employment agreement
forbidding freelancing or full time work with another company. Intellectual
property gets very tricky if an employee is working for a company with a
substantially similar product or market. If you're found out, you'd likely be
fired.

Second, you're asking us to check our assumptions but _your_ assumptions are
frankly ridiculous. "Low performing teams in low performing organizations
rarely require 4 hours of effort per day"?! How are you quantifying this? It's
not just about net hours, it's also about _contiguous_ time. What if you have
consistently conflicting meetings? Your plan is to be someone sufficiently
capable to excel at two jobs simultaneously with 40 hours or fewer per week,
but this is a more sane option than reaching $250k at one company? Really?

~~~
vbtemp
Thank you!

The question was simply what steps should one take (in tech) to become
valuable enough to earn a highly-substantial premium in earnings -- to cross
the next threshold so to speak -- using approx $250K as a benchmark.

Responses about changing lifestyle, location, or ponderings on the meaning of
wealth in our modern age are simply not responses to the question posed.

------
paulddraper
> Location is high-COL big-metro east coast city

Well, since half the comments here are referring to California, I'll go ahead
and make my off-topic location suggestion too.

Live in Austin or Kansas City or Las Vegas or Boulder or Salt Lake City.

I live in Salt Lake and you can easily buy a brand new 4k sq ft house with a <
30 min commute for less than $600k. There are tons of software jobs, it's
family friendly, and it's an hour to world-class skiing or three hours to some
of the most beautiful national parks.

I'm 28, have three kids and a house and an RV camper, my wife has never worked
anything more than fun hobby jobs, we vacation to NY/LA as much as we want,
and in general we live rather comfortably.

It's nice to tell yourself you earn $250k. But does 30% more pay make up for a
300% more expensive mortgage?

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spraak
This is side stepping the answer you're looking for: can you change locations
with your current salary? The net effect could be living as if you had $250k.

Otherwise, the best way I think reaching beyond the $150k/year salary as a SWE
besides becoming a senior Engineer at Google etc. is creating your own startup
and keeping the head count small, e.g. like many of the people on Indie
Hackers. Of course, I haven't done this yet myself, but that's what I've come
to when thinking about this.

Other options I haven't explored as much could be investments of some kind
(crypto? traditional stock market? real estate?)

------
bsvalley
Where are you located? $250k in San Francisco for example with 10 years of
experience is very doable. How? RSU's. Look for big and hot tech companies and
that's it. If you're talking about $250k as a base salary, then I'd say forget
about it unless you move into management. Even then, it would take you years
to get there. If your wife starts working then your total monthly income will
definitely make it easy for you to raise a family in the Bay Area. Again, I'm
totally guessing, you could be located in Nebraska or Canada I don't know..

Long story short - RSU's in big companies.

~~~
godelmachine
Does RSU mean restricted stock unit?

~~~
bsvalley
My bad, I forgot to specify... Yes, Restricted Stock Units. A new grant
usually vests over 4 years. It starts with your one year anniversary when 25%
of your grant vest. Then after it's every 6 months you get 12.5%. Every year
they may give you another round of RSU's (on a new 4 year vesting plan)

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arisAlexis
if you want financial security and health care and many other things that make
up the quality of life I suggest to relocate in Europe. The dalary will be
lower but what you will get what you are asking for.

------
govr
answer your question for those of us trying to make $150k, thanks.

~~~
vbtemp
1\. Find a company or startup that desperately needs someone with your
skillset ASAP

2\. Negotiate hard

3\. Have a good reputation

~~~
godelmachine
Thanks for the three points :)

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King-Aaron
$100,000 per year and you don't feel that this currently gives you financial
security.

Can we please step back for a moment and reflect on that.

~~~
ChristianGeek
I make more than that, live in a high COL area in CA, have a family of four,
live relatively modestly, and still live paycheck to paycheck.

~~~
King-Aaron
Yeah, my point being that considering the sum of money we're making, it really
shouldn't have to be a case of living paycheck to paycheck. The general costs
of living are getting out of control.

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VSPrw3C1yK
I was in your situation a couple years ago and I doubled my salary. Identify
an essential but unmet need in your organization. Satisfy it. This makes you
essential, but also demonstrates you can manage yourself, execute and provide
strategic value. Renegotiate compensation. Rinse and repeat.

~~~
byebyetech
Can you give an example. It sounds bit general and non-actionable. Example
will help understand how as a SWE you can find unmet need within organization?

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cm2012
Seconding consulting. I'm in marketing but I went from 100k - $400k a year
with the same hours.

~~~
byebyetech
Please tell your story. How did you 4x your income? Didn't know people in
marketing make this much.

~~~
cm2012
Most marketing people don't. Basically, I have a lot of experience growing and
managing high spend ad accounts at this point. Once you have that experience
and skill, you're in much higher demand. I have a lot of references saying I'm
good, so I can negotiate hourly + % of ad spend. Pareto's law is in full
effect in online marketing, so 10 hours a week with a client can get them very
similar results to if I worked for them full time.

For example, one of my clients I grew from $0 Facebook spend to 6 figures
Facebook spend. They're happy because it's profitable (printing money for
them), I'm happy since I get 15% of ad spend. It doesn't take that many
clients like that before you're making $30k+ a month.

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hitsurume
Just to clarify, you're in the Bay Area or somewhere else?

~~~
vbtemp
High COL east-coast city

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segmondy
Move to San Francisco, get a job with a well paying company.

Move to NYC. Become a quant that can code.

Start your own business.

Move into VP/CTO role.

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Something1234
Any ideas on where to go if I want to reverse engineer software?

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jryan49
Become a consultant.

