
E-Cigarette Maker Juul Just Gave Its Employees an Average 1.3M Bonus - ahakki
https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/juul-13-million-bonus-employees-altria-investment-2-billion-dividend-talent-wars.html
======
a_bonobo
In somewhat related news, the US almost managed to get rid of teenage smoking,
but Juul has been so successful that teenage smoking is back at the level of
roughly 15 years ago.

[https://twitter.com/themehakvohra/status/1076433054099492864](https://twitter.com/themehakvohra/status/1076433054099492864)

This is not a 'good' company.

~~~
jf-
I think we're in danger of attaching the stigma of tobacco to something which
is far less damaging. Vaping need not be zero harm for it to be socially
acceptable; research shows that there is no safe level of alcohol consumption,
that red meat is carcinogenic, and I imagine that despite recent legalisation
efforts marijuana poses a health threat.

Let's not become the 'no fun allowed' society.

~~~
smallnamespace
> far less damaging

 _E-cigarette vapor disables key immune cells in the lung and boosts
inflammation: Effects similar to those seen in regular smokers and patients
with chronic lung disease._
[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180813190148.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/08/180813190148.htm)

 _E-cigs shut down hundreds of immune system genes—regular cigs don’t_

[https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/e-cigs-shut-down-
hun...](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/e-cigs-shut-down-hundreds-of-
immune-system-genes-regular-cigs-dont/)

 _Widely used e-cigarette flavoring impairs lung function_

[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180523172310.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180523172310.htm)

It may turn out that e-cigarettes are, on the balance, safer than cigarettes,
however it's way too early to make that claim with any level of certainty.
Realistically, we're probably going to find out through long-term longitudinal
studies in a few decades.

~~~
__blockcipher__
Unpopular opinion: you shouldn’t be allowes to link studies the way you did
without contexualizing them. The first study was in vitro, not in vivo. They
exposed petri dishes to massive quantities of condensate.

Based off the headline/intro I thought they were going to demonstrate that
inhaled ejuice leads to macropahges being disabled (which would be very bad).
That’s not the case however.

FWIW, I don’t think vaping is harmless to the lungs. I do think it’s an order
of magnitude better than smoked tobacco.

Personally, I never smoked tobacco seriously (took occasional hits of a
cigarette while drunk and that was it). Meanwhile friends of mine would smoke
tobacco out of a bong 10-12 times a day. (One of the craziest sights ever to
see someone smoke so much tobacco at once that they lose muscular function for
60 secs).

OTOH, I did become dependent on vaporizing nicotine. So please don’t think I’m
saying there’s no harm of addiction/damage etc. But let’s please actually
analyze the scientific studies from a critical perspective rather than link
dropping to make an argument look more well founded than it is

~~~
mosselman
> Unpopular opinion: you shouldn’t be allowes to link studies the way you did
> without contexualizing them.

Ehm, but you should be ‘allowed’ to post source-less claims like the parent
did?!?

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untog
> Juul just got a $2 billion dividend payment from its new investor Altria. It
> decided to give that money to employees.

From _tobacco giant_ investor Altira. This feels like kind of a "sorry that
you now work for a tobacco company that kills people" bonus.

~~~
walrus01
Notably, Altria changed its name to escape from the absolutely abysmal
reputation of its previous name, Philip Morris.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Morris_International](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Morris_International)

~~~
solarkraft
Oh. I see.

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syntaxing
It's pretty interesting to read how concerned society is about vaping.
Personally, I put caffeine and nicotine on the same "drug" level. Though
caffeine is so ingrained in our culture (in the US) that kids at the age of 16
drink 3-4 cups of coffee and no one is concerned about this. I agree that
there needs to be regulation for the marketing of vaping (like any other
substance) but I am way more concerned about opioid usage (like during wisdom
teeth removal) and NSAID abuse than vaping abuse. I wish we can prevent all
kids from using any sort of drug since their brain gets permanently hardwired
before the age of 18, but that's life and you sometimes gotta let a kid live a
little. I rather have my kids grow up in a place where they can make their own
decisions as long as they're educated about it rather than all of us being
tiger parents leading our kids towards a dystopian society of all health but
no fun.

~~~
skinnymuch
That’s crazy. Would people really not be concerned with 4 cups of coffee at
16?

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shadowtree
Philip Morris and other old tobaccos always paid extremely well. Had to.
Something to attract and retain talent despite actively killing people.

Coming from say, McKinsey, was a lottery jackpot - and a ticket to hell.

~~~
wycs
Vaporizing nicotine is unlikely to be as harmful as smoking long term.
Nicotine itself is only moderately addictive without the concomitant
administration of MAIO inhibitors. However, the incentive structure being what
it is I somehow doubt vape companies will be able to resist creating similar
cocktails.

~~~
jondiggsit
Sorry, I don’t know MAIOs are, but a JUUL is 100% as addictive, I’d argue more
because of its accessibility and the fact it doesn’t have other side effects —
a casual smoker turned JUUL-addict.

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im3w1l
I feel the median would be a more interesting statistic. Could be a few people
getting most of it.

~~~
ahakki
It is based on a mixture of tenure and equity. I’ve seen reports of new hires
apparently getting between 300K-500K.

~~~
huac
I've heard that the median is a magnitude of order less than that; most of the
bonus is going to management.

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p1necone
A lot of people in this thread seem to be under the mistaken belief that
nicotine is the harmful thing in cigarettes. While rather more addictive,
nicotine in isolation is really no more harmful than caffeine.

~~~
kevindong
This study argues that nicotine is indeed harmful [0]. This study argues that
caffeine is harmless in healthy adult populations (although pregnant women and
children shouldn't consume caffeine) [1].

[0]:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4363846/)

[1]:
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0265203021000007...](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0265203021000007840)

~~~
newen
You just linked to some random study from some random journal in order to
support your statement, to make your statement sound like it's truth. [0] is
an article from Indian Journal of Medical and Paediatric Oncology. No idea
what the reputation of this journal is. No idea what the study does,
experimental methodology, bias of the authors, reputation of the authors, who
is funding the authors, etc. etc. More generally, why has internet discourse
detiorated to linking to random studies to make a statement and asking people
to link to random studies to support their statement.

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craigkerstiens
Tying this to tenure at the company as well as their existing stock holdings
means it's mostly an opportunity for some form of liquidity for current
employees. I don't expect it will result in immediate attrition, and likely
will work as a great recruiting tactic. But, the details in the article make
it fairly clear that most employees are not getting 1.3M.

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apexalpha
I don't understand this debate in the comments. Yes, vaping is less dangerous
than cigarettes, but it is still waaay more damaging than simply not smoking
at all.

Juul sells itself as a way for smokers to quit or change to something less
damaging but it is mostly introducing it to kids who didn't smoke anything
before!

~~~
solarkraft
> but it is mostly introducing it to kids who didn't smoke anything before!

Eh.

I personally know people vaping to quit. What's your stance on nicotine
patches?

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miguelmota
I know a few people on the Juul and they're addicted to it. They do say it
helped them quit cigarettes, but at the same time, people who never smoked a
cigarette are also addicted to Juul. So it's a 'better' alternative for
cigarette smokers but a gateway drug to others.

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thoughtstheseus
Curious what the median was.

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rhegart
E cigs are the “cool” thing now. Used to be weed when most of us were growing
up. Last 15 years it was weed. Seems like whatever society condemns becomes
the cool thing for young people.

~~~
kevindong
Weed is definitely still "cool" to people my age.

-21 year old college student.

~~~
StavrosK
Just wait 21 years until you're born, then the fun starts!

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Dowwie
Gonna have to see the variability associated with that average.

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GreaterFool
If anyone uses Juul in my proximity I get very jumpy. The amount of nicotine
this is delivering must be staggering. I’d stay away from this stuff.

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im1983
Who said that money can’t clear your consciousness...

Evilcorp

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aviv
We live in a sick (figuratively and quite literally) world where people who
create an addicting, health damaging product easily accessible to and abused
by kids are celebrated for some kind of "success" and rewarded financially as
a result of their immoral creation.

~~~
altperspective
Are you speaking of an e-cig company or social media? Is physical health less
important than mental health?

~~~
komali2
The evidence of the negative health effects of smoking far outstrip those of
social media in both quantity and impact of those health effects. I'm not sure
we're even in the sent ballpark right now. I'm not sure even the same game.

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kizer
Fuck this company and any other that sells a product with an addictive
chemical. That’s not “innovation”. That’s Donald Trump tier snake oil.

~~~
Crosseye_Jack
Next time you go grocery shopping, check how much sugar is in everything.

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kizer
[https://imgur.com/a/i9rWJbb](https://imgur.com/a/i9rWJbb)

