
Summary of Donella Meadows' “Thinking in Systems” (2009) - musha68k
http://www.consciouscapitalism.typepad.com/conscious-capitalism/2009/10/summary-of-thinking-in-systems-by-donella-meadows.html
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erdevs
RIP Donella Meadows, a great thinker.

The interested reader may also like this slideshare overview of Thinking in
Systems ch. 1-3: [http://www.slideshare.net/sandhyajohnson/thinking-in-
systems...](http://www.slideshare.net/sandhyajohnson/thinking-in-systems-
donella-meadows-chapters-1-to-3)

Another of her well-known works is Leverage Points, which is also great and
goes into more detail on some of that which is summarized in OP's linked
article. [http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-
to...](http://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-
in-a-system/) ,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_leverage_points](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_leverage_points)

Having worked in automated systems analysis and optimization across several
fields, I think Meadows' thinking is very instructive. Some of her notions
which stand out in particular to me:

* The importance of the effect of feedback loops in complex system. When unexpected or counterintuitive behavior occurs, a hidden or misunderstood reinforcement feedback loop is often at root.

* The requirement that systems that seek to automate or optimize complex interactive systems be constantly-adaptive because the system itself will interact with the observation/analysis/optimization acts. This can seem like crazy voodoo at first, but it is undeniable when you start to experience it in action.

* Understanding of cost externalities vs benefit rewards for system actors and how they relate to system sources/sinks (or "stocks and flows"). This drives so much of our economy, as well as the subsystems which feed it and she has some illuminating thoughts and analyses on addressing these issues broadly.

This all of course goes well beyond the more basic material on
oversimplification vs complexity in simulation or interventions, limits of
rationality in system-actors, nonlinearity vs linear thinking, boundary
conditions/non-boundary conditions, etc.

------
ArthurN
For those intrigued by Systems Thinking but want to explore it in context of
startups (or business in general), consider reading Scaling Lean by Ash Maurya
[1]. The whole Customer Factory [2] is based on a causal loop diagram of
McClure's Pirate Metrics (AARRR); Ash also incorporates a lot of Theory of
Constraints into the book. Highly recommended.

Systems Thinking was also part of Intel's culture under Andrew Grove (at least
at the leadership level, from what I can tell). You can see evidence of that
in his super-acclaimed book, High Output Management [3], especially the first
couple of chapters (though he doesn't refer to it directly). Rich Jolly,
another executive @ Intel, actually has a PhD in Systems Science and also
wrote a book, Systems Thinking for Business [4], although it's definitely a
bit more advanced and more theoretical than the others listed here.

And, I whole-heartedly agree - Meadows' book is simply an AMAZING treatise of
Systems Thinking. It's a great place to start regardless of your background
(the beauty of ST is that it is applicable to a broad range of fields and
disciplines).

As an aside, does anyone know of any good/free/open source tools for drawing
causal loop diagrams, or better yet, running simulations?

[1] [https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Lean-Mastering-Metrics-
Startu...](https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-Lean-Mastering-Metrics-
Startup/dp/1101980524/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470183661&sr=8-1)

[2] [https://leanstack.com/customer-factory-
blueprint/](https://leanstack.com/customer-factory-blueprint/)

[3] [https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-
Grove-e...](https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove-
ebook/dp/0394532341/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1470183992&sr=8-4)

[4] [https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Thinking-Business-
Capitalize-...](https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Thinking-Business-Capitalize-
Structures/dp/0692353348/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1470184395&sr=8-5)

------
llamataboot
System Dynamics remains a woefully underused theoretical system for modeling
complex systems and understanding the feedback loops involved and the way the
structure of the system influences the outcome. I know of no one that explains
it more clearly than Donella Meadows (RIP).

~~~
mk89
I just finished reading her book, and I am trying to dig into this field to
learn more about it, as I consider it pretty interesting.

I am still surprised that we don't teach it at school (high school). I want to
believe it will happen in the next 20-25 years.

~~~
theoh
Isn't it 50% New Age pseudoscience though? I mean, how would you respond to
that criticism? Particularly at the level of detail that might be taught in
schools, I wonder about its falsifiability.

I say this as someone who is prepared to consider the idea of systems thinking
as a "second tier" cognitive strategy, as advanced by Wilber etc. I can't
imagine that idea getting mainstream traction.

~~~
mk89
The world is changing, as it's becoming evident that everything is more and
more interconnected, and while studying History can help you figure some of
these connections out, I believe that System Thinking gives a better insight
about broader domains. After all, it's engineering applied to a broad field -
not just maths, computers, and biology, but it's about finding out the
connections that make our society/behaviors the way they are.

It's like psychology. Some people nowadays still don't consider it a science,
although it applies similar principles to human/animal behavior, but it's a
science, isn't it? I believe it's a good way to discover new patterns to build
more sustainable societies, as psychology is a good way to improve human life
and relations among humans.

------
mk89
In case someone is interested, there is a list of related books on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3277457](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3277457)

------
rymohr
The Systems Thinker [1] is another great resource.

[1]: [https://thesystemsthinker.com/](https://thesystemsthinker.com/)

------
dredmorbius
George Mobus & Michael Kalton's _Principles of Systems Science_ is another
resource people might find useful.

[https://www.worldcat.org/title/principles-of-systems-
science...](https://www.worldcat.org/title/principles-of-systems-
science/oclc/899567001&referer=brief_results)

------
tunesmith
This has really influenced my thinking as a strategist and architect,
particularly around when to introduce and remove process in teams. In
particular, trying to figure out how to engineer reinforcing loops so that
your teams and groups experience virtuous cycles of productivity.

------
signa11
there is an old book called "sytematics" by john-gall, which also talks about
similar'ish things.

~~~
gmt2027
Great book but IIRC that should be "Systemantics."

~~~
fermigier
Indeed:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemantics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemantics)

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copperx
I haven't read "Thinking in Systems," but I'm wondering if it's similar in
spirit to Mindstorms, which advocated teaching in terms of thinking in
microworlds, or systems.

