
BufferBox: Amazon Lockers? We Had That Idea First - mmccauley
http://blogs.wsj.com/canadarealtime/2012/08/08/digits-bufferbox-amazon-lockers-we-had-that-idea-first/
======
icegreentea
I actually worked with BufferBox this summer as part of my design class. They
mentioned that while they and Amazon Locker were breaking new ground here in
North America, this type of service is pretty old-hat in Europe. For example,
DHL runs their PackStation service in Germany (and apparently in the rest of
Europe too) [<http://www.dhl.de/en/paket/privatkunden/packstation.html>].
There are a bunch of other fairly large and developed competitors all over
Europe as well.

~~~
aristidb
Wikipedia also has an English article about Packstation:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation>

(You might think it's only on the German wikipedia, that's why I think this is
worthwhile to post.)

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pisipisipisi
In Estonia we've had two-way boxes (where you can also send stuff) for a few
years now. For example local eBay clone osta.ee uses it for quite convenient
parcel service, as you sometimes don't really want somebody to ship to your
home address.

~~~
pisipisipisi
Forgot the mandatory link: <http://smartpost.ee/>

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zhuzhuor
These lockers are good, but what I think we should really improve is the
quality/performance of our mailing/delivery systems. The lockers are just a
patch to the existing lame systems.

If a company can deliver all days in a week (including weekends) and all time
in a day (including evenings and nights), and the delivery men _really_ called
before they left a note, that company would win the game.

~~~
capsule_toy
I actually think lockers are more convenient because I don't even have to
think about the day and time. I just pick up my package when it's convenient.

I also imagine customized delivery times would increase costs and make
logistics more difficult. The only place I know offhand that has customized
delivery times is Tokyo, so I wonder how they manage. Probably more affordable
in a high density area with couriers.

~~~
kalleboo
They do customized delivery times all over Japan, not only in Tokyo. Amazon
same-day delivery is only in Tokyo though.

------
adg
I always thought there were laws against running a service like this in the
US. For example the rules for registering a USPS P.O. box are very stringent:

> To rent a PO Box, two different forms of identification are required. At
> least one of them must be a valid photo ID. [1]

This way they can actually track you down if you have something illegal
shipped to the box.

A service like this where you can easily sign up without properly verifying
your identity is just waiting to be used as a temporary drop-box for people
shipping drugs from SilkRoad, people shipping goods they bought with a stolen
credit card, etc.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-office_box#United_States>

~~~
ryanhuff
That Wikipedia article described USPS PO Boxes. Private companies (Mailboxes
Etc, etc) have offered similar services in the US for years, although they are
not technically a PO Box. They may have similar requirements, but the link
that you provided does not discuss it.

~~~
adg
Right. USPS PO Box was just one example. It's my understanding that the other
services have the same requirements.

E.g. I checked and UPS offers a service called My Choice:

> The UPS My ChoiceSM enrollment process uses public record information to
> verify your identity.

[http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/sri/ups_my_choice...](http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/sri/ups_my_choice_recognize_identity.html?srch_pos=14&srch_phr=UPS+My+Choice&WT.svl=SRCH)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
The CIA could just set up cameras facing a locker location (and possibly fit
cameras in the lockers). Add some very expensive computing for facial and
image [of the goods] recognition and you might be doing them a favour???

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flurdy
The Norwegian postal service have been offering locker facility for parcels
for awhile. Mostly in train/tube stations. I dont think they have been used
much.

While interested I never did use one when I lived there as they cost much more
than a normal delivery to your door and are very limited on for how long they
are stored. Useless if you are away for the weekend or week, when such a
locker service would be ideal.

<http://www.posten.no/17889/postautomat> [http://www.postennorge.no/nyheter-
og-media/nyhetsarkiv/gamle...](http://www.postennorge.no/nyheter-og-
media/nyhetsarkiv/gamle-nyheter/nyheter?contentKey=6732)

~~~
flurdy
.... And as it turns out they were abandoned in 2011. (Google translate to the
rescue for most of you)

[http://www.postennorge.no/nyheter-og-
media/nyhetsarkiv/nyhet...](http://www.postennorge.no/nyheter-og-
media/nyhetsarkiv/nyhetsarkiv/postautomatene-legges-ned-fra-nytt%C3%A5r)

[http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en...](http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.postennorge.no%2Fnyheter-
og-media%2Fnyhetsarkiv%2Fnyhetsarkiv%2Fpostautomatene-legges-ned-fra-
nytt%25C3%25A5r)

------
rplnt
When someone says they had an idea first, it's almost always not true. I
didn't know any similar technology but I was sure that statement was bullshit.
Comments here proved me right. Just say "before them" instead of "first" and
you won't end up looking like a douche (well, a smaller douche because it's
still bad to cry about things like this).

PS: It might be that the writer came up with the word "first" as it is not
cited.

------
capsule_toy
Installing lockers is something that I would get into if I wasn't already
involved with a company doing something very similar but not for package
deliveries. Once you build out the infrastructure, you have an asset with good
ROI and a moat against potential competitors. I know someone doing exactly
this right now and is basically trying to expand as quickly as possible.

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ttunguz
Same day delivery services like these have existed in Japan for years. They're
wonderful.

But they lend themselves to low weight/high value goods that are easily
shipped. And to highly concentrated population centers where the higher costs
of same day shipping associated with operating a warehouse or retail store in
an expensive environment can be amortized over higher margin goods.

------
ddt
It'll be interesting to see Amazon square off against a startup. They've been
doing battle with B&M stores, Google and Apple. It'll be interesting to see
how they deal with a company several orders of magnitude smaller than them.
With the amplifying effect of YC behind them, it'll be interesting to watch.

~~~
rdl
So, if Amazon loses here, they still get to ship lots of products to people
who might otherwise buy from a B&M store? Seems win/win for Amazon.

------
jenntoda
What a perfect solution for peer-to-peer delivery and selling/buying stuff
from craigslist! Amazon may have their lockers, but there's plenty of room for
this take on use cases that Amazon wont (yet) - run fast!!! :)

~~~
ConstantineXVI
I don't think this is viable for Craigslist style transactions, meeting in
person lets you verify the listing is what you expected and still leaves room
for haggling if necessary. Picking up from a locker would require complete
trust in the vendor and leave little room for recourse if something went
wrong.

This could still be good for small transactions, Craigslist is just too small.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
It may be possible to reduce some of the risk with escrow tied to locker
opening and probably with added ID requirements and maybe recording of locker
contents.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
Which adds complexity. The CL model works as it's requirements are so simple,
two humans that:

\- Can communicate in the same language

\- Can use a web browser

\- Are able to make transactions of some kind (cash, check, Square, barter, CL
doesn't care about the specifics)

Which makes their available market a rather large majority of the entire
population of the Internet. Each extra restriction or requirement makes it
less likely a given person will get involved.

Be very careful about "innovating" away simplicity.

------
46Bit
Saw one of these outside Y Combinator the other week - seriously cool idea.
Best of luck with it, hope you expand to the UK soon enough.

~~~
rdl
It would be awesome if YC became a locker location.

~~~
mikeknoop
My understanding is that it is. There's been a box inside (and now out front)
for a few weeks now.

~~~
mmccauley
There is now a kiosk outside YC and FedEx and UPS are now delivering to it.

~~~
rdl
You should get OnTrac to deliver to it as well, since Amazon often uses them.

~~~
mmccauley
It seems like Amazon uses OnTrac for delivery to certain areas. We haven't
seen any deliveries come through OnTrac as of yet so Amazon may stick with UPS
for the particular zip.

------
fraserharris
Any idea how fast will Amazon Lockers be rolling out across the US? Which
metro's are they hitting first?

~~~
rexf
"Amazon Lockers are currently located in Seattle, New York, the Washington, DC
area, and London."

[http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=200689010)

~~~
vampirical
I was offered local locations (all 7-11s) for an order I placed to the SF Bay
Area yesterday, so it looks like SF can be added to that list.

~~~
tdeitch
Did you end up getting your order shipped there? I was given the option ship
an order to one of the lockers in SF on Monday, but when I tried to select it,
I got an error. In any case, it suggests that they should be available in SF
soon.

~~~
mmccauley
They are available here in the Bay Area (I went to go see one last week). Only
products fulfilled by Amazon can be shipped to locker locations.

------
oldgregg
this has huge potential if they do it right. Let vendors pay with bitcoin. Let
them pre-ship product that can be unlocked with a qr code. suddenly the silk
road gets a lot more interesting.

~~~
michaelt
If you're going to pre-ship products and customers are going to leave home to
pick them up, why not just stock them in a conventional retail store?

~~~
darklajid
So, I ordered a Google Nexus 7 from a seller in the UK (not available in
Germany). I really, really wanted to have that thing in my hands.

Unfortunately the guy used the Royal Mail and their daughter TNT for shipping,
so no 'PackStation' for me.

Due to the totally useless tracking information I couldn't be at home, the
thing was delivered to a nearby (just 200m!) shop. This shop opened at 10 and
- due to summer holidays and reduced staff - closed at 15 again during that
week. How braindead is this concept? Even a post office is more reliable and
I've come to expect the PackStation service. The packet arrives as soon as
possible (no 'customer not present' loops, no 'delivered to a neighbor' crap
where I need to hunt that guy down and hope that he's home/available/opens the
door, no trip to a weird shop (an antique furniture shop in my case), relying
on their opening hours), I'll be notified instantly (SMS as soon as they close
the door of that locker) and can pick it up whenever I want (like, drunk on a
Sunday morning at 4 am - given I remember my PIN).

If you consider that these boxes are available ~everywhere~ in larger cities,
you usually can schedule the delivery to a place that is on your way to work,
home, the gym or near your favorite restaurant.

tl/dr: The service is worlds apart from 'You can pick up your thing in a shop
at this address'.

