
Over twenty percent of cable TV bills are bogus fees, study says - elorant
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmjqa5/24-of-your-cable-tv-bill-is-just-bogus-fees-study-says
======
6gvONxR4sf7o
There needs to be regulation here, and not just on cable. If you're going to
charge it to me, you shouldn't be able to wait until checkout (or even worse,
the first month's bill) to tell me what the price actually is.

Comparison is the mechanism by which competition drives a healthy economy.
There's less value in competition the harder comparing them is. It's really
hard to compare when you have to dig all the way to checkout to find what
you'd pay.

Imagine you're at the supermarket and different brands of milk were listed at
one price, but each had different fees when you get to the cash register. No
one but the cashier can tell you what each option actually costs. How many
people are going to get out of the line and go back and try another brand of
mystery milk when they find out they chose one with a $1 "cattle fee?" It
makes competition weak and needs to be illegal.

~~~
sys_64738
It's not regulation that's needed but competition. A good start would be to
separate the infrastructure from the data delivery portion of the service like
is done for Electricity and Gas. Introducing competition for the delivery
portion will drive down rates.

~~~
zbentley
> separate the infrastructure from the data delivery portion

How is that achievable without regulatory action?

------
time0ut
The whole (US) cable provider industry needs to change. It is so anti-
consumer. I was a Comcast customer for over 15 years. Once or twice a year I'd
have to spend a couple hours talking to their customer service because they
raised my rate, snuck some bogus charge on the bill, or signed me up for
something I didn't want. They are borderline criminals.

My experience getting rid of the TV portion of the package was so painful, I
cancelled everything instead and switched to AT&T. Luckily, they had recently
laid fiber to my house. I was wary as they weren't the best company to deal
with back when I had a landline. I figured they couldn't be worse than Comcast
though. To my pleasant surprise, they've been perfect. 10/10\. Their pricing
was transparent and stable. The service top notch. No idea what customer
service is like because I've never had to call.

I suspect it is only this good because there's competition here though. So
YMMV. I'd love to see a heavy regulatory hand smack the whole industry.

~~~
Ascetik
Same. I have AT&T gig fiber after switching from Comcast. 3 Years in, no
complaints. My 2yr old son ripped the fiber line out of the house, and they
came the next day and fixed it in like an hour, no charge. Been very satisfied
with AT&T.

~~~
jrnichols
I recently switched from a 1000/50 package with Suddenlink (would rarely get
over 400, even wired) to 1000/1000 with AT&T Fiber. I now easily get 950/950
wired consistently. It's $73/mo. The bill has been easy to understand. AT&T
really surprised me with everything.

------
itcrowd
Forget the bogus fees for a moment. $150-220 for cable TV per _month_ is
preposterous.

~~~
johndubchak
The other point, that the article fails to mention, is that oftentimes these
providers have local monopolistic markets where the opportunity for consumers
to choose a competitive provider are nonexistent.

That allows them to increase fees 600%. I would dump Comcast in a heartbeat if
I had an alternative. Their service is unstable and inconsistent in my area
and we are forced to pay very high rates.

~~~
ghaff
For cable _TV_ specifically, lack of competition is a harder case to make than
for Internet given that al least most people with houses have the option to
get satellite TV instead. (Or streaming TV services assuming they have
broadband.)

~~~
joshuaheard
Lack of competitive choices is the reason they get away with this. My choices
are 1 cable provider, Dish, and DirecTV. Not much competition. I have tried
cutting the cord and streaming TV, but it's not ready for prime time yet. I
also tried DirecTV and they had their own set of junk fees. At this point, I
just pay the fees and hope technology improves enough to have ubiquitous
choices.

~~~
ghaff
I'm finally dropping cable TV entirely because my TiVo with lifetime
subscription finally died. But I basically don't watch it so it's not that
hard a decision even if the alternatives aren't perfect.

------
Macha
This kind of thing makes me glad not to be an American consumer.

The article cites the example of CenturyLink's "Internet Cost Recovery Fee",
which is a $4/mo fee not listed in your price that is supposed to cover
CenturyLink's costs of network expansion. I don't know how you can argue this
is not part of the rate which CenturyLink themselves are charging for the
service. Some of the other examples, like Comcast's passing on of government
fees outside of the headline price I could understand as political
differences, the same way you do not include sales tax in advertised prices
(which annoys me every time I'm in the US), but I don't see how the "Internet
Cost Recovery Fee" is not actionable fraudulent advertising.

In comparison, my ISP's advertised price is €80/mo. I pay €80/mo. In exchange,
I get 400mbit/s broadband with no extra fees. This is technically a business
plan, but the only extra price weirdness for consumer plans is the 6 month
introductory rate.

~~~
chongli
_do not include sales tax in advertised prices_

I live in Canada and we do the same thing here. I think it’s a good thing to
remind everyone of sales taxes at checkout time. Sales taxes are regressive
taxes. We should get rid of them in favour of a more progressive tax, such as
land value tax.

Laws that mandate hiding sales tax by including it in the advertised price
only serve to entrench a tax that should be repealed.

Edit: I just wanted to note that the vast majority of people I see defending
sales taxes (i.e. VAT) are Europeans and the people opposed are North
Americans. Putting aside the argument over whether it’s a good idea or not, I
think this is good (albeit anecdotal) evidence that hiding/showing the tax in
the purchase price at checkout affects people’s opinion of the tax.

~~~
madsbuch
VAT is only regressive if you assume that everybody have a constant spending
regardless of their income. In practice I think people with a higher income
also spend more, however, probably not linear to their extra income.

In practice, sales tax is probably progressive, but not to the same extend as,
eg. income tax.

Furthermore, we should probably consider increasing the sales tax as it limits
the consumption. This is highly necessary given our current ecological
situation (In Denmark, where i live, the sales tax is 25%).

~~~
gnicholas
Sales taxes are definitely regressive (as that word is used by policy makers)
because low-income people spend closer to 100% of their income than high-
income people. The definition of regressive is a tax that takes up a larger
percentage of income for low-income than high income.

Source: I used to be a tax lawyer.

~~~
ceejayoz
It should be noted that VATs can be implemented in a progressive manner. Give
everyone (or anyone under a certain income) an exemption that covers VAT for
necessities, exempt items like rent/utilities from it, etc.

~~~
chongli
Giving an exemption for necessities turns VAT into a Pigovian tax on luxuries.
In effect, this is an attempt to modify the behaviour of the poor and so it
can be construed as a form of social engineering which exempts the rich. Given
that some people view poverty as a moral failing, I think this is a bad thing.

In reality, it doesn’t even work. Poor people spend money on luxuries in order
to gain status which they need to attract a partner. Rich people don’t need to
do to spend their money to gain status since they already have it by virtue of
being rich.

------
the_mitsuhiko
The US love hidden fees. After being charged an “Urban” and “Resort” fee that
was not advertised I learned that there seems to be neither regulation nor
interest in requiring a customer to be presented with the final price on
advertisements. It’s bizarre.

~~~
lotsofpulp
If the final price was different that a written quote I was provided before
(such as an email confirmation), I would dispute it with credit card.

However, I’ve always seen all the fees listed in email confirmations along
with a final total price.

~~~
the_mitsuhiko
The email price had a disclaimer about extra fees being charged on checkout.
So that does not help. The resort fee i had to pay was for a gym in the hotel
I did not use and probably could have negotiated, the urban fee was for the
“SF urban experience” which I can only assume is non negotiable given the
location of the hotel.

You can’t dispute partial fees either and no bank lets you dispute a charge
that is on your bill as far as I’m aware.

~~~
lotsofpulp
The way a credit (or debit) card works in the US, is that the onus is on the
merchant to prove the transaction was legitimate. This includes notifying you
what the total price is and you accepting that.

No bank in my experience (as a merchant or customer) would stand behind
undisclosed or unspecified charges.

~~~
the_mitsuhiko
My point is that they can easily proven that.

~~~
lotsofpulp
I assumed you meant the email said “extra fees”, but did not specify how much.
If the email didn’t explicitly state how much you will pay, or a formula to
figure out how much, then I believe the banks would side with you.

------
dplgk
What stops McDonald's from doing the same? Advertising 99¢ burger and then
charging 25% handling fee? Competition, I'd say. Seems that these abusive
practices are evidence of a monopoly.

~~~
drewg123
Less friction.

Switching to a different fast food chain is as easy as walking next door in
most cases.

Switching cable providers is impossible for many (Comcast is my only choice),
or may require hours lost from work while dealing with customer service,
returning equipment, waiting for installers, etc.

~~~
johndubchak
Wendy’s, Carl Jrs, Burger King, local places that sell quality burgers.

Remember people only choose McDonalds because of the consistent quality, for
whatever definition of “quality” you want to ascribe to them, and low cost.

~~~
oarsinsync
> people only choose McDonalds because of the consistent quality

Indeed, this is the only reason I eat McDonald's when I do - it doesn't matter
where in the world I am, I know exactly what I'm getting, and I can pay in USD
cash (although change is returned in local currency)

~~~
LeoPanthera
McDonalds accepts USD in other countries?

~~~
oarsinsync
It's part of the terms of the franchise. Greenback accepted globally.

~~~
LeoPanthera
Do you have a citation for that? A quick Google doesn’t reveal anything
obvious.

~~~
oarsinsync
I do not. However I’ve spoken to a franchise owner after visiting 7 countries
where they accepted USD who explained why. Don’t take it as gospel, but try it
yourself next time you travel and see what happens.

------
seanalltogether
It's pretty refreshing now that I live in the UK that I see full prices for
anything I purchase. Even airline flights and other EU hotels bookings show
full price throughout the transaction.

~~~
stevesimmons
On the whole, yes, the UK is way better.

My current battle, though, is with Travelodge. I discovered the hard way their
'Flexible rate + Breakfast + Wifi' packagee refunds only the room and
breakfast parts if you cancel. Despite the wording 'Cancel up until noon on
arrival date', they withold the wifi charge if you cancel.

This isn't mentioned on the confirmation email, nor at the T&Cs link. The
agents who answer the booking phone number can't do anything. There is no
email contact. And their customer service phone number costs 13p per minute.

So anyone in the UK thinking of staying at Travelodge, don't! They are
predatory scum...

~~~
ghaff
How awful.

Unfortunately, hotels are also generally tightening up cancelation policies to
require 48 to 72 hours notice--which of course does you zero good if the
cancelation is due to travel disruption of some sort.

(You also see a lot more pre-pay/no cancel rates which I admittedly have less
trouble getting upset with although it's very annoying that there's often no
refund window at all if you fat finger something when you make the reservation
even if you notice immediately.)

My most recent bitch with Travelodge--which I basically never stay at but it
was the only last minute room I could get--was that they _really_ didn't want
me to check in without a government-issue photo ID which I lost at the
airport. This was even though I had a wallet full of other cards and I had an
online reservation.

------
thecardcheat
Comcast may add a modem rental fee to your bill automagically even if you have
your own modem (even if you have always had your own). This happened to me and
the phone support told me they do this intentionally and they expect people to
call and resolve it if it is not an appropriate fee.

------
simonster
The DOT Full Fare Advertising Rule requires that airfare prices include all
taxes and fees. Perhaps the cable industry needs a similar rule.

~~~
oarsinsync
Perhaps retail generally needs a similar rule, so we don’t face this problem
again in the future.

------
cpwright
Cablevision/Optimum (now Altice) added a modem rental charge and network
expansion fee, which was the impetus for me to switch to Fios after having
Optimum for 15 years across 3 different homes. I ended up paying almost half
for the triple play (it will go up after a year, but is still significantly
lower overall even after the discount expires).

~~~
rdschouw
Call FIOS just before the 12-month anniversary and ask them for a discount or
you walk. I always got to keep my "discount".

~~~
op00to
Just cycle names, cancelling every time the discounts end. New FIOS customer
discounts are always more than retention.

------
NearAP
Comcast is quite guilty of this. I’m on a 2 year contract but within one year,
Comcast has increased my bill by raising the Regional Sports Fee and broadcast
TV fee TWICE.

In the last 4 years, they have consistently raised these 2 fees each time
effectively raising the final amount I pay which is higher than what is on my
contract.

When I call to complain, they point me to a section of my contract (in small
letters) which say broadcast and regulatory fees may change within the
contract duration.

I wish the government would crack down on this (they are just being plain
deceptive) or that they get some competition

------
norin
Why does the American consumer allow these companies to get away with it?
Extortion like this won't fly in any EU country.

~~~
radicalbyte
In the USA they tend to have monopolies which have been exasperated by lack of
action from the regulators.

~~~
weberc2
This is pretty much only true for cable companies. For the most part, we have
lots and lots of competition, and things are generally more affordable here
than in Europe (and salaries are quite a lot higher as well, even factoring in
the social services that Europeans enjoy).

~~~
NicoJuicy
Not agreeing with: even factoring in the social services that Europeans enjoy

Nobody goes broke here when you get sick.

And still, ISP for me is 43€/month, fixed, unlimited and stable.

~~~
weberc2
Yep, if you’re sick and poor, Europe is the better bargain for sure. I think
it would be good for the US to have a stronger social safety net, but
nevertheless, most things are more affordable in the US (my Internet is
$60/month for fast speed as I live in one of the regions with ISP
competition).

~~~
NicoJuicy
Lol, if sick and poor...

We have much better benefits here :p

I would never want to work in the bv US actually ( personal opinion)

~~~
weberc2
“The bv US”? Europe has shorter hours and more vacation, but after factoring
in everything else (healthcare, taxes, etc), my salary would be at least 40%
lower in even the wealthiest European countries. And as mentioned elsewhere,
the cost of living is higher in Europe. I can’t justify it, which is a shame,
because I really like European culture and history and would like to live
there for a few years.

~~~
NicoJuicy
Most people do it the other way around here.

Some years abroad and then come back.

------
newguy1234
I have a friend who works as a tax auditor and audits telecom companies to
verify a specific tax. When he does the audit he gets the ENTIRE billing
information. What is interesting to note is that there are certain taxes where
the law allows the telecom to determine how much cost is required to comply
with the tax (employees expenses) and then offload that cost on to the end-
user. So the tax that the customer pays is actually the tax going to the
government and some of that tax is also going to pay the employees hired by
the company to comply with the tax. Without much surprise, the amount of
employees required to comply with the tax seems to increase each year and most
of these employees are never fired or let go. There is no incentive for the
company to cut costs when the taxpayer is paying for the employee's salary.

------
sys_64738
The craziest fee I saw was with Verizon where they charged you ground rent for
the poles they had at the side of the road.

FWIW, keeping just Comcast internet leads to no fees. Not sure how that's
managed to stay that way.

------
petilon
Another egregious example: Frontier Communications adds a $3.99 "Internet
Infrastructure Surcharge" for internet service, on top of the advertised
price. But internet infrastructure is what the advertised price is for, so why
isn't it already included in the price?

The underlying problem is that the US does not have a true democracy. The
government here works for big businesses, not "of the people, by the people,
and for the people". EU is much closer to being a true democracy.

------
paul7986
I would say it's a small minority of readers here who actually still have/pay
for cable. That industry hated and took/takes advantage of its customers
that's it's finally getting what it deserves!

Myself since I'm in a ATT family plan I pay $60 for unlimited data and it
comes with ATT TV formerly called Direct TV now. I do use it but wouldn't pay
for it or use it if it wasn't bundle in cheaply as it is now.

------
golover721
To be fair Comcast these days shows you a breakdown of the full cost of the
service you are signing up for, which you have to accept. So the fees should
not be a surprise. Would I prefer it was all included in the advertised price,
absolutely.

------
mjfern
Does anyone know why cable companies are able to tack on all these fees to TV
service but not to broadband service?

~~~
dillonmckay
So, a cable television franchise has special protections enumerated in state
and federal law.

They use this as a guise to provide internet, while only being responsible for
the tv portion.

Additionally, the FCC has specific rules which exempt cable modems from
regulation at the municipal level, which is why you see fiber convert back to
DOCSIS to attach a cable model at the end.

------
danielrpa
What is "Cable TV"? :)

~~~
Porthos9K
It's read-only, video-only internet that doesn't provide pornography used
mainly to deliver advertising and propaganda.

------
patientplatypus
Fuck'em. Just torrent whatever you want to watch.

~~~
shrimp_emoji
Do that because it's a more empowering, tangible, and DRM-free format, but
that argument also holds against streaming services who don't swindle you, so
it's orthogonal to this.

~~~
patientplatypus
If movie stars want to get paid and I can get their products for free then I
will. Maybe they should fight for a society where not only the rich can get
by.

------
grecy
Of course, this is capitalism. A company will charge whatever they can get
away with for a product or service. It's not "bogus fees", it's simply
"profit".

The fact it costs Nike ~a few bucks to make a pair of shoes has absolutely
nothing to do with the selling price.

~~~
tomohawk
The pressures at play here have more to do with cronyism and politics than
capitalism.

They can charge what they want because: no competition.

There is no competition because the regulators have decreed that the lack of
competition constitutes competition in their view.

~~~
p1esk
There’s no competition because of lobbying (aka corruption).

