
Microsoft stirs suspicions by adding telemetry files to security-only update - rlv-dan
https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-stirs-suspicions-by-adding-telemetry-files-to-security-only-update/
======
Someone1234
We don't know if this is a security update or not.

This is an article, about an article, about a blog post, about a random
comment. Someone grabbed the update's file change list, spotted files used by
the Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) and then said that because
those files were updated that this security update "added telemetry."

Problem is that those files previously exist on Windows 7 as part of CEIP and
may require legitimate updates (inc. security). You still need to opt into the
CEIP so that telemetrics are sent to Microsoft, and there's no proof that this
update has changed that.

I guess what I am saying is: There could be a story here, hypothetically, but
this article lacks enough information to say that there is. This could be a
legitimately security update to an unpopular part of the Windows 7 OS.

~~~
tinus_hn
They’ve pulled these tricks so many times before they are not getting the
benefit of the doubt from me.

~~~
TimTheTinker
> benefit of the doubt

OP's point was that ZDNet is stooping a bit low here by journalistic
standards. In this case, it appears there's not enough evidence to publish a
"question headline" \-- much less question whether they deserve some benefit
of a doubt.

We all know MS and others have engaged in questionable behavior - but at least
wait until there's something substantive before publishing.

~~~
fartcannon
No, publish now, and let Microsoft's PR machine reveal itself. We could learn
so much.

~~~
darkcha0s
So you'd rather push fake news, rather than see if the report substantiates.

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mirimir
The last time I helped my wife with a Windows 10 install, I was utterly
grossed out. I've always been suspicious about snooping and covert logging,
and spent years playing the game about blocking it all, but Windows 10 is
crazy invasive.

I mean, by default, it wants to send every keystroke back to Microsoft
servers! For "diagnostic purposes", I guess. And every URL that you visit.
That's arguably worse than Google. Which is saying a lot.

~~~
pilif
_> I mean, by default, it wants to send every keystroke back to Microsoft
servers_

do you have any proof to substantiate this statement? I don’t believe for a
second that Microsoft is getting away with an OS-wide keylogger

~~~
tallanvor
Of course he doesn't, because it's obviously untrue. Newer versions of Windows
10 gives you the option to save all diagnostic data and view it, so that you
can actually see what they send back.

~~~
eps
Got a link for the instructions on how to do this?

~~~
tallanvor
Here: [https://www.thewindowsclub.com/diagnostic-data-viewer-
window...](https://www.thewindowsclub.com/diagnostic-data-viewer-windows-10)
Or here: [https://www.onmsft.com/how-to/how-to-see-the-diagnostic-
data...](https://www.onmsft.com/how-to/how-to-see-the-diagnostic-data-
windows-10-is-sending-to-microsoft)

Quite a few sites have listed how to do this.

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Causality1
You know, I would do quite a lot to get full granular control of Windows
Update back. I'd sign and mail a liability waiver. I'd send Microsoft a box of
chocolates. I'd take a training course and pass a standardized licensing exam.

In the meantime I'm stuck dealing with Windows Update breaking things every
week. I've completely given up on ever using my convertible laptop as a tablet
again because every day I have to replace the updated broken drivers for the
orientation sensor with the good ones from a fresh install of Windows and
every night it dutifully installs the broken updated ones and there's not a
damned thing I can do about it without disabling Windows Update entirely.

~~~
herpderperator
I've been running Windows with Windows Update disabled for many years. I
enable it and update when I feel I should, and assess risk on an as-needed
basis. I'm aware that running outdated software is bad practice, but I like
not getting interrupted on my PC... for 154 straight days so far:
[https://i.imgur.com/1RTpIBY.png](https://i.imgur.com/1RTpIBY.png)

~~~
oauea
Can you visit my website? I need some new nodes for my botnet.

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sverige
Since I have very clear memories of the first time MS did something like this,
it kills me that no one publishes articles with quite the same degree of alarm
about the massive amounts of telemetry that Google, Facebook, Amazon, et al.
have successfully deployed. I mean, I don't like MS, but they're kind of like
the annoying acquaintance who always pushes their latest MLM scheme while we
all live in a neighborhood full of gangster thugs.

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infiniteseeker
Yawn. That would only be a problem if you choose to run Micro$oft software.
And it is in your hands to fix the problem by going with Linux etc. (key word
is choose...i realise it is imposed on many, specially in the enterprise
world).

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reilly3000
How on earth is MSFT supposed to maintain comparability for quintillions of
iterations of hardware across millions of machines with no data on what works
and what doesn't? Unlike FAANG they aren't out there pushing listening devices
or trying to build exclusive data sets; they are trying to maintain the
stability and security of 78.43% of the world's desktop computers. I don't
care for the alarmism here when there are blazing infernos of actual
malevolence burning in every direction.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
They could start by being honest and open about what data they gather and give
users simple, easy-to-access tools to restrict it if they want. (Most modern
users won't care, anyway.)

If MS has built an OS that _cannot_ be effectively maintained without being
sneaky and deceptive about their data gathering, that's their problem. Don't
ask me to sympathize with them just because doing things right is hard.

~~~
rstat1
There's a tool that been in win10 for a while now that shows exactly what data
is collected. It shows exactly what component of the OS is collecting it.

Go in to the Settings app > Privacy > Diagnostics & Feedback and scroll down
to the "View Diagnostic Data" section.

Its not really all that sneaky or deceptive or dishonest or any of that. Its
just being portrayed as such by anyone writing about it in the press for some
reason.

~~~
tgragnato
It should be possible to have a single, giant button for the _complete_ opt-
out, and the assurance that no updates, inconsistencies, individual settings,
or else could cause analytics to get out of your pc.

~~~
rstat1
I personally don't see the big deal, but to each their own.

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dilawar
If no one is paying you, is there still any good reason to use Windows?

~~~
kungtotte
Gaming is still better on Windows.

It's improved greatly with Steam's work on Proton, at a guess I'd say at least
75% of my library is now playable with no extra work from my side.

On Windows it's still 100% though.

~~~
waddlesworth
I tried gaming on Linux awhile back, my biggest problem was how spotty the
nVidia drivers are. I realise nVidia is mostly to blame here, but it's
definitely still a problem that's preventing me from ever really being able to
game on Linux (Ubuntu.)

With a goal of 1440p@144hz, and someone who appreciates visual fidelity, I own
an RTX 2080 Ti, and there's just far too much of a performance penalty for
linux gaming.

~~~
Fnoord
> I own an RTX 2080 Ti

Why did you buy that if you planned to game on Linux? I got a Vega 56 and it
works great. Right now I'd opt for one of the newly released cards. With a
Ryzen 3... AMD is back!

~~~
acollins1331
Maybe he does other stuff too. CUDA cores are worth their weight in gold and
AMD has none. (Ryzen + RTX Titan user here)

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bprasanna
Not sure what happened lately, Microsoft is having a stint of bad news as
well! They must always remember that the faith now is hard earned through lots
of good decisions and generosity.

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devoply
wolf in sheep's clothing, the "new" microsoft.

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craftinator
I don't have this problem on Linux.

