
Dell’s Linux PC sequel still just works, but adds 4K screen and rough edges - martey
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/03/review-dell-m3800-developer-edition-is-a-great-linux-pc-with-a-few-rough-edges/
======
nfoz
Oh interesting, this is the M3800 which is Dell's beefy 15" Linux laptop. Glad
to see it getting some light.

If you're looking for something more portable, the New XPS 13 is in
development and is supposed to launch soon. I follow the project lead's blog
here: [http://bartongeorge.net/](http://bartongeorge.net/)

My hats off to the Dell team; they're very open about what they're doing,
making better drivers etc. before launching the product.

For now I'm trying out a 2015 Chromebook Pixel with Debian GNU/Linux
install..ing. Still working on it. It has a lot of the same problems mentioned
here: \- Suuuper glossy screen (basically a mirror with a dark background) \-
Limited keyboard: no pageup/pagedown.. even more limited than the Dell, it
doesn't have a DEL key, just Power in its place... much key remapping will be
required to make this usable. \- No physical trackpad buttons, and that's a
huuuge problem, because even Google's touchpad driver fails some basic tests
of operation as compared to a Mac (e.g. cursor stutters its motion if you
click while moving the cursor). The lack of touchpad buttons across most
laptops now is shocking. \- Keys are a bit shallow

~~~
eblanshey
I'll be getting a new laptop soon and am interested in the XPS 13.

1\. Is the only difference in the Developer edition that Ubuntu is install by
default, and drivers are made to work with it? Otherwise the build is exactly
the same? (The New XPS has a matte screen which I would like.)

2\. I don't particularly trust an operating system that ships with a computer.
I assume if I wipe it and install Ubuntu from scratch it'll still work the
same as intended?

3\. Will the price be lower due to no Windows license?

4\. Do you have a ballpark figure of when it'll be out?

Thanks.

~~~
nfoz
Afaict it's not yet known if there will be any hardware differences between
the Windows and Ubuntu models.

Yes, of course you can wipe the OS in either case. Dell's Linux extensions are
open-source as far as I know, e.g. their touchpad improvements that they're
working on. But you might have to build your own kernel in order to compile
those drivers yourself, or perhaps wait a long time before they're mainlined.

This is conjecture based on my understanding. I'd look around the Dell-Linux
forums/blogs, the dev team is pretty open about discussing this stuff.

------
jgrowl
I received mine a couple of weeks ago and have been pretty happy so far.
Everything worked out of the box in ubuntu (camera, multimedia keys, trackpad,
touchscreen, bluetooth, wifi, etc). My only complaints are:

\- The Glossy monitor is incredibly reflective. I wish there was a matte
option.

\- I got the UHD screen option but there are still too many scaling issues in
linux. Ubuntu looks fine with some minor tweaks but a lot of programs look
horrible (ie. chrome). I ended up just lowering the resolution for now.

\- The power cable sticks out really far when it is plugged in. It also makes
me worried I'll break it if I forget I'm attached because the input seems a
little wobbly.

\- I like the keyboard for the most part but a few of the keys squeak
occasionally.

\- The trackpad also is pretty good, but it feels overly sensitive and jumpy
compared to my macbook air.

\- WIFI seems a little spotty. It might be that my wireless router isn't very
good but my signal is much weaker than it is on my macbook. I need to play
around with setting a little more before coming to a conclusion.

\- If you open it up on your lap you might pinch your legs!

*edit: I used a 20% coupon I found online somewhere. Not sure how long it was good for: MXPX2T1N9HGH12

~~~
vladev
I have another HiDPI laptop with the same wireless card (Intel 7260). I don't
think your router is the problem, I'm experiencing the same issues. When I'm
not in the same room as the router signal used to drop 50% of the time. Few
driver updates later things are much better, but it still freezes sometimes.
Consider disabling the power saving options - it does help. It seems Intel
totally botched it with this card as the Internet is littered with people
complaining about it, including Windows users. It seems the Windows drivers
have it covered now, but the Linux ones are still catching up.

Regarding the HiDPI - Chrome is the only thing that doesn't play, but since
I'm a Firefox user, that's not a problem. Gnome 3 handles it quite well. Yes,
some apps (i.e. Skype) get their font rendering a bit wrong, but otherwise
it's fine. But the crisp fonts are something I'm not giving up.

~~~
jgrowl
For posterity's sake... I kept having bad issues with the wifi. The problem
seemed to get worse after the computer went to sleep. It would take websites a
long time to load and drop out completely sometimes. I ended up getting a new
router since I saw on a couple of forums that it helped. Specifically I got a
Linksys WRT AC1900. The problems so far seem to have been resolved. Websites
load quickly and no cut-outs so far.

------
stormbrew
Why in god's name does a laptop that large not have independent
home/end/pgup/pgdn keys. This trend drives me nuts.

~~~
dima55
Or a second windows key. Or separate mouse buttons. Sigh

~~~
jgrowl
Why do people use a second windows button? I've never understood how it is
useful.

~~~
organsnyder
I like to remap those keys to AltGr and/or compose. Makes it much easier to
type accents, proper punctuation…

------
bluedino
Dell has achieved feature parity with the Retina MacBook Pro, and has made
huge improvements on their last 'MBP competitor', the XPS 15.

However, looking at it objectively, the article pretty much sums it up:

    
    
      Thunderbolt port doesn't really work in Ubuntu
      Application-level 4k scaling issues are pretty much all over the place
      If all you're after is Linux on a laptop, you can do it for cheaper than the M3800's starting price
      I kind of hoped the Dell logo on the back would light up, but sadly it doesn't
      Battery life with the Nvidia GPU enabled is far too short for a day's worth of working
    

Not quite a MacBook, but if you absolutely must have Linux instead of OS X,
and don't want to fiddle with installing and tweaking it, it's very
serviceable. But if you don't need the NVIDIA GPU there are cheaper options.

~~~
stormbrew
Note that the first two would also be issues running linux on a macbook.
Thunderbolt support on linux is extremely weak.

------
shmerl
I wish all manufacturers would just allow buying computers without an OS.

I recently tried to check if Lenovo offers Windows refund for those who reject
the EULA. No dice. They still claim Windows tax is mandatory even if you don't
need Windows.

What I never understood though is how can they legally do it. Doesn't it
violate product tying laws?

~~~
Mikeb85
When I bought my Thinkpad, they gave me a significant ($150) discount when I
said I didn't want Windows. It still came with Windows, apparently doing the
actual refund process is more difficult than just giving a discount code...

~~~
shmerl
Was country was that store in? Did you buy it straight from Lenovo or from
some of their retail partners?

~~~
Mikeb85
Strait from Lenovo in Canada. You need to speak with a rep though. I didn't
ask for the discount, just mentioned I didn't want Windows and asked about
Linux options.

~~~
shmerl
Just spoke with the rep on the phone. She is claiming Lenovo isn't offering a
refund for Windows and one has to contact legal department for any further
questions.

Is there a phone for calling the Canadian store?

------
rayiner
Really disappointing that it only gets 5.5 hours of Wi-Fi browsing with a 91
watt-hour battery (on integrated graphics). The rMBP pushes 9-10 hours under
those conditions.

~~~
Mandatum
Denser displays use much more power.

~~~
rayiner
It's only slightly denser: 235 versus 220 ppi.

------
moron4hire
How do these ones hold up over time? I haven't had a Dell PC of any kind,
laptop or desktop, last longer than two years (and thanks to switching jobs a
few times and being the family PC tech support, I've seen quite a few Dells).
I had given up on the brand completely, but this is a very tempting piece of
hardware.

I hate how hard it is to find the specs I want in a laptop computer. Some
sites will let you filter by specs, but sometimes I'd be willing to compromise
on some specs if other specs hit certain thresholds. And then, it seems like
some products get selected by the filter that should be, and others get
filtered out that do match the specs, so I'm just back to reading pretty much
every product page until I find what I want.

~~~
Greed
[http://notebookcheck.net](http://notebookcheck.net) is pretty good for this,
they have a solid breakdown for laptops and a search function that allows you
to filter on a more granular level than just price.

------
lhl
Sadly, the Sputnik version of the XPS 13, the one I was more interested in,
still has issues/hasn't come out yet. This 3rd-party article/thread seems to
be a good place for tracking those developments:
[https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell-
xps-13-9343-2...](https://major.io/2015/02/03/linux-support-dell-
xps-13-9343-2015-model/)

Issues w/ the XPS 13 include keyboard repeat issues (fixed w/ BIOS A01
update), trackpad issues (kernel patches, switching from I2C to PS2 mode),
sound (switching from I2S to HDA, requires ACPI jigger-pokery including
another kernel patch since the BIOS breaks sound init when ACPI is sent
properly
[https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/3/12/149](https://lkml.org/lkml/2015/3/12/149)).
Also the XPS 13 uses a somewhat flakey Broadcom wireless card as well. And
people have reported some S3 sleep issues.

My main goal was to replace my MBA11 w/ something about the same size w/
better battery-life (my Yosemite battery-life is pathetic, about 4hrs even
just web browsing). The FHD XPS13 claims 15 hours, but I couldn't wait anymore
and ended up going w/ the new Lenovo X250 - slightly less sexy but more or
less equivalent and only a tiny bit larger, largely works OOTB w/ Linux, and
has 20 hours claimed battery life w/ the 6-cell battery option.

------
jamesblonde
I have had the previous m3800, with 3.5K screen, and a 512GB SSD. I'm running
dual-boot windows 8, but with Ubuntu 14.10 as my primary OS. The touchscreen
and scaling of windows is great. On Ubuntu they are non-existant. I can't use
my finger to scroll, but can launch apps with my finger. Using my fingers is
something i'm really getting to like. Things like getting a putty connection
to my server in 2 seconds works now with three quick touches. The big problem
has been that suspened doesn't work now - both on windows and ubuntu. I
"upgraded" to 15.04, still no joy. I assume it's a motherboard problem, but I
don't time to leave it back. Killer for my productivity, though. Pity, as it
ruins an otherwise nice laptop.

~~~
karlgrz
Also, suspend works perfectly on XPS 15 with Ubuntu 14.04 and 14.10, although
I had to add a couple of statements to rc.local to prevent it from waking in
my backpack:

    
    
      echo EHC1 > /proc/acpi/wakeup
      echo EHC2 > /proc/acpi/wakeup
      echo XHC > /proc/acpi/wakeup
    

After this, the only two devices enabled in /proc/acpi/wakeup are power button
and the lid (exactly what I want):

    
    
      cat /proc/acpi/wakeup | grep enabled
      PWRB	  S4	*enabled 
      LID0	  S4	*enabled
    

Don't know if that helps...would probably need more detail on what isn't
working with your model's suspend.

------
billconan
looks like a good notebook. but I have lots of issues with nvidia gpu under
linux. everytime the kernel gets updated, I get a black screen.

~~~
jewel
I have three Desktops with an nvidia card that haven't had a problem. On
Ubuntu DKMS recompiles the nvidia blob loader whenever the kernel is updated.

What operating system are you on? Did you install the proprietary drivers by
hand?

Given what you've said, my guess is that you're on the proprietary driver but
it isn't being recompiled properly.

~~~
billconan
desktop is a different story. the issue happens when you have both intel and
nvidia gpus.

see for example:

[https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/790089/linux/nvidia...](https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/790089/linux/nvidia-
on-ubuntu-14-04-1-64bit-black-blank-login-screen-not-freeze-/)

[http://askubuntu.com/questions/372686/after-installing-
nvidi...](http://askubuntu.com/questions/372686/after-installing-nvidia-
drivers-i-boot-into-a-black-screen-13-10)

~~~
cpbotha
On Ubuntu this problem is caused by the gpu-manager that keeps on rewriting
xorg.conf incorrectly for the Optimus NVIDIA / Intel setup.

I analyse the problem and present a hacky work-around in this post:
[http://vxlabs.com/2015/02/05/solving-the-
ubuntu-14-04-nvidia...](http://vxlabs.com/2015/02/05/solving-the-
ubuntu-14-04-nvidia-346-nvidia-prime-black-screen-issue/)

~~~
billconan
Thank you so much! has this issue been filed to ubuntu? I will do it if it
hasn't.

------
ChikkaChiChi
Apple announced the 2880x1800 Retina display in June of 2012. It has been
almost 3 years and only 2 of the 4 desktop operating systems have an interface
that works reliably at pixel doubling resolutions: Apple OSX and Google Chrome
OS.

------
harel
That's all great, but I have a bundle of cold hard cash here waiting for the
XPS 13 developer edition. All this time I see lovely things to spend it on but
still I wait...

------
likeclockwork
I have an XPS 13 from 2012 that I run Fedora on. I sometimes wish for a
larger/newer/faster laptop (even though I do most of my serious work at a
desktop with 2x27" 1440p monitors).. I wish to be more comfortable when
working in various places. I'm seriously eyeballing this one, because I love
the feel of these contraptions. Aluminum upper, carbon fiber lower, shark dick
interior..

------
adamc
I'll be interested to see how these work out. There were two issues that
scared me away from the predecessor: Reported wifi issues and coil whine. If
they can avoid significant issues, then it's a nice laptop, although the
battery life could be better.

------
puppetmaster3
[https://system76.com/laptops](https://system76.com/laptops)

~~~
joshuapants
Aren't these simply overpriced Clevo/Sager rebrands?

------
mjcohen
How do you do a middle click on the pad?

~~~
tpeaton
Three finger tap.

