
Ask HN: I do not enjoy my job, what to do? - plsadvice
Hi,<p>I am 25 years old, and completed a computer science degree 3 years ago.<p>For the past three years I have been in a permanent full-time position as a computer programmer. However I do not enjoy this job. I have very limited time to explore new interests, and in addition due to where I live, it takes me 2 hours of daily travel to get to the workplace.<p>What should I do? I am unsure if I should quit as everyone I have spoken to mentions that I should be grateful that at least I have a job in this economic climate, and that all jobs have some disadvantages.<p>Also I do not know what I would be able to contribute of economic value if I was to become unemployed, or if I could even find another job outside of ICT. To be honest I would rather be outside, meeting people and creating things rather than sitting in an office all day 5 days a week. I feel that I currently only have my programming skills and have no idea how to safely move to something else.<p>Thanks
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impendia
> I should be grateful that at least I have a job in this economic climate,

You should be grateful.

> and that all jobs have some disadvantages.

This is very much also true.

 _But neither of the above implies that you shouldn 't move on._

> I feel that I currently only have my programming skills and have no idea how
> to safely move to something else.

This is a really excellent question. I have no idea how to answer it, as it is
different for every person, but this is definitely worthwhile to think about.

The one piece of relevant advice I've read (from _What Color Is Your
Parachute?_ , which you should probably read) is to try and transition to
something that uses your demonstrable skills, but that also involves being
outside, and/or meeting people, and/or creating things.

Good luck to you!

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pasbesoin
If you are following the "common" advice (e.g. you should be grateful), then
you should also consider that part of that advice particularly "in this
economic climate" is that it is easier to get another job when/while you are
already employed. Some companies (although I'm not arguing that they are
necessarily the ones you want to work for) are actively screening out
applications from unemployed persons.

If you want another job, find it if you can while you are still employed.

If you are looking to make a larger change, save up. Your living expenses may
well _increase_ while you are unemployed, for example due to paying for your
own health insurance (in the U.S., you will likely be eligible for limited
duration continuation under COBRA, but you will have to pay the entire cost of
that insurance out of pocket).

As for the staying in unhappy circumstances: Trust your intuition as to
whether the "balance" is acceptable. If not, don't stay too long -- take it
from someone who did. It becomes self-destructive (passively, if not
actively), even with the best of intentions.

There's difficult, and then there's pointlessly, going nowhere difficult. The
two are different.

You want some upside, whether it's in the job itself, and/or in your personal
life. And even if the job's good, don't forgo a personal life (in my opinion).

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Leander_B
Tough spot..

Maybe tell us a bit more about your background (location, salary, work
conditions, relationship, responsibilities, also social life etc..). As maybe
there is more then just the job which is bothering you? (2 hours of commute a
day would make me hate >90% of jobs)

If you are really sure it's the job, my suggestions would be to try to save as
much as possible the next 5-6 months, quit your job, live frugal as long as
you can and explore other options and then decide to pursue what makes you
happy the most. Also, how 'hard' is your work? I know plenty of developers who
only work 5-10hrs a week at their day job and are busy with other stuff while
working. So if you can, use that time to plan ahead.

For me also, I kind of dislike my job (but I'm paid extremely well at my age,
don't have much alternative, have obligations, have in general a very very
good life so I don't really care of one aspect which is my job) but I just do
it because I have to and don't mind after all compared to the rewards.

Would much rather be a farmer, but then again, I wouldn't want to give up my
comfortable life or get back problems in 20 years of now. So maybe you are not
that bad off after all?

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lgieron
99% jobs are meant to at least kinda suck - that's why compensation is
necessary. Being paid to do interesting stuff is possible only if your
definition of "interesting" differs greatly from the society's (so there's no
competition) or if you're truly great at what you do. For now, there are two
things you can do (at the same time):

1\. Reprioritize. Most people cope with their jobs sucking by viewing them as
just a mean towards living an interesting/satisfactory life, not as a value in
itself. If you can't get satisfaction out of your current job, you might as
well focus more on life instead.

2\. Try to develop a skill in a field that interests you. If you'll keep
pushing, you will eventually get paid to do that (of course it's easier to get
paid well as a machine learning specialist than as a contemporary dancer, so
don't totally disregard market realities).

Also, I'd do something about that commute. Move closer to the job if you can.
Or start searching for a job closer to home. Or try doing
freelancing/contracted work (ideally from home) - that's the best way to have
enough time left for 2).

~~~
Casseres
> 99% jobs are meant to at least kinda suck - that's why compensation is
> necessary.

Not necessarily. If you have someone that loves their job and does it
extremely well, you still need to pay that person so that person can pay
his/her bills and stay there. Otherwise, that person will leave for a job that
he/she likes less and is not as good at, just to be able to pay the bills.

I know several people that LOVE their jobs, but they have a family to support.
If those jobs didn't pay, they wouldn't be working there because loving a job
doesn't put food on the table.

------
allenp
Sorry you're feeling discontent. I've written some advice on this in the past
and am linking to it here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1843266](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1843266)

No matter where you go and what you end up doing, businesses ebb and flow and
your interests and motivations will also change and you will find yourself
here again.

The key is for you to build an internal toolset (mental, emotional) to assess
and proactively work towards your goals.

You mentioned that you would rather be outside, meeting people and creating
things - there are absolutely jobs that incorporate both software and these
other aspects - think of things like greenhouse automation (outside) or
positions writing software for coffee shops or ?? There is an entire world of
software.

Good luck!

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k0t0n0
I'm 21 right now and i felt that same thing 6 months ago. Then i left my job.
i still think i mad a great decision.

Stop killing your self and follow your <3\. (this line is bull shit)

based on my experience

pro: happy as fuck life. 0% depressed life. no shit from boss. you can code
only when you want. infinity amount of time to do new things. you can work on
startups, cool. you can freelance. (i only do freelance now)

cons: you will need money, which is kinda hard. (if you are not a rich basted)
Unemployed tag feels like shit. (if you are not doing freelance) slowly you
will go away from programming. (programming is not fun when you do it too
much) you will make less money, and 25 age is for marriage in my country. i'm
21 so i don't care about that right now. but you are fucked.

~~~
chris_wot
_i 'm 21 so i don't care about that right now. but you are fucked._

Truly, the voice of wisdom and experience!

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andrewcooke
is this your first job? jobs vary _hugely_ within the industry and that can
really affect how much you enjoy work. so if this is your first (or second)
programming job, you should really try just changing. my first programming job
was horrible, but my second was pretty awesome.

second, 2 hours of commute is wasting a huge amount of time. that's not a good
way to live. why are you doing that? move closer to where the jobs are. you
don't need to be living in the suburbs unless you have a wife and kids (and
even then, you still have options).

you may find that simply fixing those two things gives you a good life without
any other big change.

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willcode4equity
Consider moonlighting for equity rather than salary... I need coders to
develop different business plans and am willing to share equity in leu of
monetary payment. If the business-plan you are assigned to is successful, or
generates revenue, we both win. If it fails (most do), you gained some
entrepreneurial wisdom and stepped outside of the box for a short period of
time—and you still have your day job; no harm no foul. You will need to
confirm there is no conflict of interest of course. You can email me at
WillCode4Equity a_t FTL d_o_t COM

------
ig1
The first thing you need to ask is if it's programming you're not enjoying or
the role in the particular company that you're not enjoying.

There are many roles which combine technical skills with people skills if
that's what you're looking for. For example consultancy, sales engineers, dev
evangelists, etc.

You should build a list of what you'd want from a role and then finds roles
that meet that criteria. You can always wait until you get a new job offer
before quitting your current job if you're worried about unemployment.

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coolswan
Definitely don't quit right away unless you have the bank account to do so.
I'd first find someone that is doing what you think you want to do and get
their advice. Beyond that, spend any free time you have trying to "meet people
and create things." If this becomes infinitely better than find any job that
recreates that, even if it means less wages. Start from the bottom, work hard
and get to the top.

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strick
First - your commute is insane and is the first thing I would fix.

I recommend saving 25x your annual spending and retiring. Until you have the
true freedom of not serving others you will always be trapped to some extent.
Search for 'mr money mustache' or 'early retirement extreme' to learn more
about this mindset.

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FurrBall
"I should be grateful that at least I have a job in this economic climate"

Really? How about you test that theory by seeing what hits you get in a job
search or with a recruiter. You don't need to quit your job to start your
search.

"Also I do not know"

Start a job search then you'll know.

------
kaonashi
My first programming gig was in a windows shop in a small market doing plug-in
programming on a proprietary platform. I stayed way too long, but my next gig
was really interesting and paid over twice as much. I had to move to a bigger
market, though.

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neekb
> I feel that I currently only have my programming skills and have no idea how
> to safely move to something else.

That's a pretty damn good skill to have. I often think the opposite "If only I
knew how to program I would..."

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staunch
1\. In your free time find something that you genuinely like to do and start
doing it. Figure out how to make money at it.

2\. Save up a bunch of money.

3\. Quit and go do #1 full-time.

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wing328hk
Well you're only 25. I strongly recommend you to try something that might
interest you. If you never try, you will never know. Good luck!

------
meerita
Leave. Search for something more motivational. Freelance remotely for a time.

------
bf_1
Find a new job.

------
Arjuna
I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling. Hopefully the following will help
you.

As with many things in life, it is vital to break problems down into their
component parts, so that you can fully understand and appreciate the nature of
the problem. This will allow you to see all of the available options as you
work toward a solution.

Let's break out 3 important areas in your post:

 _1\. The commute._

Commutes can be quite an emotional drain, particularly if you have to drive.

Try to separate your feelings about your job from the feelings about your
commute. For example, if you lived 5 minutes away from your job, would that
change how you felt about your job? In my estimation, this is an important
question to ask yourself, because it is possible that there are aspects of the
job that you like, but the commute is destroying any goodness that exists for
you about your job.

On the other hand, you may find that even if you lived 5 minutes away from
your job, that you simply do not like it. This is, of course, fine as well,
but it is an important exercise; that is, break the problem down into its
component parts.

2\. _The job._

I agree with the practice of gratitude, and it is true that all jobs have both
advantages and disadvantages, but none of this means that you should not try
to grow and better yourself. I do not believe that you should "suffer in
gratitude". If you are truly unhappy and want something more out of life, then
my advice is to strive toward making a change.

One place to look is, perhaps surprisingly... your current job. That is to
say, you might be in one area of the business, but with your contacts at your
current job, perhaps you can make a move into another area of the business.
This may or may not be possible, depending on your circumstances, situation,
size of the business, etc., but it is worth considering if you have not
considered it before.

Otherwise, if you know that your only choice is to move on, then you need to
go to a quiet space, perhaps on a hike as I like to do, and ask yourself:

 _" What kind of job do I really want?"_

What I mean here is, you are in ICT now, but do you want to be in something
else entirely? Mobile? Game development? Web? You have to answer that question
so that you can formulate an "exit strategy" from your current situation to a
new situation.

If you want to stay in ICT, then the transition to a new job will be easier,
because you already have experience and skills in that field. In that case,
you could just start looking and going on interviews that interest you.

Otherwise, if you want to switch into something new, then you have to get up
to speed in that new area, so that you can give yourself a shot at getting an
interview in the new area, while simultaneously being able to discuss the new
area with someone during an interview. Ideally, you want to develop a
portfolio. For example, if you wanted to move into games, you would want to
have a portfolio of games and graphic demos to show your potential employer.
This will help give you credibility in your efforts to switch gears into a new
career field.

3\. _On quitting your job._

I would advise that you not quit your job without an exit strategy. Of course,
it may look like an attractive option compared to where you may be currently,
but, unless you have a lot of stacks put away, you will quickly become
stressed about financial issues, which will result in being unproductive and
possibly depressed, neither of which will be beneficial to you, your life-
goals or anyone around you. Also, this may force you into a position where you
may be desperate to take any job after you burn through your cash reserves,
which will likely land you in the same position as the one that you are asking
about in your post. So, plan it out. Try to remind yourself that the pain of
staying at the current job while you figure all of this out is going to be far
better than the pain of simply quitting without an exit strategy and "hoping
for the best."

Finally, I wrote some similar thoughts in a previous post to someone else.
They are slightly different, but they might help you as well:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220534](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6220534)

In summary:

1\. Do not quit your job without an exit strategy.

2\. Think about your commute (i.e., Do you like your job, but dislike your
commute?)

3\. Can you make a move into something better that you like at your current
job?

4\. If not, figure out what kind of job that you want.

5\. If you decide that you want to stay in your current field, then start
interviewing.

6\. If you want to change fields, develop an exit strategy to get you there
(i.e., a portfolio, start researching the new area, etc.)

I hope this helps. Best of luck!

------
dorfuss
I'd like to tackle the issue differently.

I'm in a similar situation but on the other side of the spectrum - I did a
degree in cultural anthropology which is neither recognised nor appreciated by
the job market, virtually impossible to monetise the skills I learned. Here in
my country nobody knows what anthropology is. The only hope for those who want
to stay in the "business" is to beg for a lousy scholarship and starve for
years doing a PhD and waiting for some old professor to retire and make a room
for a young and aspiring researcher (who by the time it happens won't be young
anymore).

Still, I've been very lucky compared with my friends from the university. I've
got a decent job in a large insurance corporation, doing a little bit of PR
and mainly monitoring the work of debt collectors abroad.

Mostly it's a very repetitive, limited, not creative, nine-to-five kind of
job, with a very annoying, over-controlling, nosy, bipolar colleague.

I've had enough, although my salary rose by 36% in the last year.

I would like to move abroad, but I am limited by my predominantly soft skills
and lack of serious experience (I'm 27). And I'm not a native Englih speaker.

During my studies I was researching new technologies in education and I am
very much interested in human-computer interacion, usability and design. I
know I cannot compete with so many great wizzard programmers, I am not an
alogorithm genius, but I do not intend to be. Nowadays there are so many great
software engineers all over the world and the market becames more and more
saturated with sophisticated devices I believe it is the client's research
which will make the difference and help to turn a good idea into millions.

However, at least here in my country, in order to get into R&D one has to
graduade in some computer science related subject.

So next month I am starting a new degree in applied computer science :)

But going back to the core problem of not enjoying your job:

I agree with Arjuna - you should consider relocation. I live just 10 minutes
walking away from my office. I pay high rent, but the comfort of life without
having to commute anywhere is beyond description. I highly encourage all to
consider it.

Secondly - if you are having a problem with a colleague, or with some aspect
of what you do, then treat it not as an offence ("the world hates me!") but
rather as an intellectual, personal challange ("hmm, it's interesting - why do
I react in such a way?"), an opportunity to grow, an excercise that will make
you stronger. As others said: there will always be things and people you don't
like in your future jobs, but the goal is not to strive for a perfect
environment without these problems, but to develop strategies to deal with
them.

I hate reporting. But I knew it was something I have to turn into an
interesting challange and to learn something new, or it would kill me. Now I
must say I make the best reports our clients ever received. In the course of
doing so I turned myself into an advanced user of Business Objects, automated
the process to the furthest extent and delegated the manual stuff to my
colleagues - what in the beginning took at least 2 days of solid work on the
reports alone now takes just about 1 hour!

We're young. And I believe everything is possible. If I am able to turn myself
into a mediocre computer scientist, working full time and having to pay for my
studies, you are able to become whatever you want.

Cheers!

