
Show HN – Apptimize: A/B testing for native Android, iOS apps - jorlow
http://newton.apptimize.com/
======
sync
For folks interested in mobile A/B testing, also see an open-source
alternative by Clutch:
[https://github.com/clutchio](https://github.com/clutchio)

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jorlow
For what it's worth, using Clutch was one of the reasons we ended up making
Apptimize. We ran into several bugs including one that was crashing the app we
were working on and issues with its probability distribution. And the
reporting was very simplistic.

Are you using Clutch now? If so, it'd be awesome if you could give us a try.

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philbarr
This looks interesting - although having never really considered using A/B
testing on native apps before I did spend a few minutes looking around the
site for examples of things to track. Maybe you could show an example project
on the site showing what was changed and how that affected sales, etc.?

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nancyhua
Part of apptimize team here. We want to do that! We will add more to our site;
currently it looks deceptively slick bc our designer is awesome but it's
really a first iteration.

Right now if you sign in, you can see an example experiment. How does it look
to you?

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philbarr
Yes the example gives a much better idea of what's going on. Although I did
have to create an account to look at it...

Would be nice to have that accessible from the main page.

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Rezo
I couldn't find any pricing information even after registering. It only says
its free to try, but no further clarification in the docs or the FAQ.

While it looks promising, I can't go and integrate this into my app without
knowing if, when, and how much you're going to be charging for it.

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nancyhua
We haven't announced our pricing yet because we're constantly adding new
features our users request. Email me at nancy at apptimize dot com and we'll
give you a special deal we've been giving to early adopters.

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hrabago
The lack of information on pricing is an instant back-button-trigger for me. I
have no idea if you (eventually) plan to charge $5 per month or $200 per
month. If it's in the lower end, then it can be worth evaluating. If it's a
few or several hundreds per month, then I have to pass until I'm earning
enough to afford it.

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gailees
Do people actually do A/B testing on iOS apps? I feel like the two-week
development cycle really hinders your ability to conduct valuable A/B tests
with your users in time to actually make any change.

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jasonlotito
Take a look at [http://useartisan.com/](http://useartisan.com/)

Basically, it removes the 2-week development cycle, and you can essentially
make changes in real time. I've seen it demo'ed, and it's much more impressive
than the website makes it out to be.

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SupremumLimit
It sounds interesting, but how do they get around the app store approval
process?

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jasonlotito
You compile once, and change the app as needed. You don't need to resubmit.

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xoail
I would like to see some code examples.

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jorlow
If you register (takes 2 seconds) there's an example project where you can see
the integration steps with the exact code you need to paste in. You're right
though, we should definitely add examples to the main site.

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tjbiddle
I'd recommend not forcing people to register to see generic information like
this - I know HN is biased towards "Connect with Facebook to login", I would
assume most are also biased towards registering to see content - I know I am.

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nancyhua
Ok you guys are right. We're adding this to our site right now.

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jorlow
Updated:
[https://newton.apptimize.com/faqs.html](https://newton.apptimize.com/faqs.html)

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theelfismike
It'd be nice if the text were selectable instead of an image.

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MaxGabriel
It also looks _really_ bad on a retina screen

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chrisalvino
Our organization often comes up with its own secondary metrics based on user
data (not just CTR or usage). Is this possible when using Apptimize?

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nancyhua
Part of apptimize team here! We let you track whatever goals you want, so
people measure stuff like "user returned within a week" and "user used app."
What goals do you want to track?

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chrisalvino
That really depends on what we find to be important metrics. Flexibility is
important since we need to be flexible too.

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jakestein
Interesting, Artisan mobile is also in this space
[http://useartisan.com/](http://useartisan.com/)

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igorsyl
Why should anyone choose to use Apptimize over a free open-source alternative?

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jorlow
One of the biggest reasons is probably the reason behind using any software as
a service rather than doing it yourself: you can concentrate on what you do
best and not spend time managing things yourself. A couple of our users
switched from using open source alternatives for that reason. We've put a lot
of time into our infrastructure and decoupling things so we're very resilient
against outages so you don't have to. We've also put a lot of time into making
our library more robust and well tested than any alternatives we've seen to
date.

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huhtenberg
I've got some karma points to burn, so here comes something.

A list of your clients would be nice to see. So that I'd know to never install
any of their apps.

I _hate_ apps that phone home. I hate apps that phone to some random analytics
companies even more. I don't like companies that enable, entice and profit
from this sort of behavior, a behavior that _every single user would opt out
from if they were asked upfront_. So, unfortunately, the only thing I can wish
you at this point is a speedy demise so that you'd be free to focus on
projects that are less ethically questionable.

/rant

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Rezo
How does the anonymous gathering of statistics harm you? As an app developer,
this data allows me to measurably improve my apps.

I have several free (no ads either) apps in the Android market, and even in
the most trivial of apps I will include Google Analytics to receive crash
reports, see what screens are most popular (so I can improve my apps where it
matters most), where the app is being used (for some reason one of my apps was
really popular in France, I then added a French translation and the adoption
really took off), what devices are most/least popular etc. If I add a new
feature, I want to know if its being used or if I wasted my time, if I need to
improve the discoverability of the feature etc.

Last but not least, the usage data is really motivating to me as a developer
of free apps. If I release an app, and I see it being used daily, that makes
me happy and motives me to keep updating it.

As far as I know, the GA data is anonymous and only shown to the developer in
aggregates.

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huhtenberg
> _As an app developer, this data allows me to measurably improve my apps._

I don't give a flying f#ck about that, sorry. This is my device and I don't
like _my_ device connecting god knows where at a whim.

As I said, if you were to tell your app users upfront that you will be
tracking their usage, anonymous or not, and gave them an option to opt out,
very few would _not_ opt out. This is the exact same inherent need for privacy
that is fueling current NSA debacle. It may be irrational, but it pretty damn
real. People don't like to be tracked or watched.

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jaegerpicker
I think that frankly you are roundly wrong. Most users just don't care that
they are anonymously being tracked or monitored. Most users what good, ease to
use, reliable apps that do something interesting. If it phones home to google
most people just don't care. The NSA scandal was mostly met with a loud "meh?"
from most people. The media is pushing it as a story but really only techies
give a shit about it. I'm not saying it's right but I'm pretty sure that's the
general feeling about it with the general public. Anon analytics make better
apps. It's a good thing for users all the way around. Better apps == a better
user experience, that doesn't happen without better data.

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pbsdp
> _Most users just don 't care that they are anonymously being tracked or
> monitored._

Most users don't know, because you didn't tell them.

> _Anon analytics make better apps._

Highly debatable.

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smtddr
>> Anon analytics make better apps.

> Highly debatable.

How can that be debatable? If you see 45% of crashes happen on the photo-
upload screen, isn't that some kind of clue where to look? I really don't
think anyone can argue that analytics are not helpful in improving app
quality. Please, if anyone can even play devil's advocate on that... please
do. But you better make a throwaway account 'cuz I suspect you'll be buried
into oblivion and ghost-banned.

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pbsdp
The crash report backtrace can be gathered on-demand, after asking the user's
permission.

On-demand user-approved crash reporting is not usually what people mean by
phone-home 'analytics'.

> _But you better make a throwaway account 'cuz I suspect you'll be buried
> into oblivion and ghost-banned._

That's pretty rude.

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pr0filer__
I really like the flat design. Nice and subtle. Also, Optimizely reference?

