
Ask HN: Work/life balance – Significant other complains you work too much? - suanmeiguo
I got a lot of complains from my gf about me working too much and not having enough time with her. This leads to a common work&#x2F;life balance question for all the people who want to be success.<p>So how do you handle this balance? and what would you do when your gf&#x2F;bf&#x2F;wife&#x2F;husband complains about it?
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brianbarker
First, I wouldn't get relationship advice from HN, or any pool of nerds.
There's a reason our relationships suffer or are few and far between: nerd
personalities will spend more time coding at work, trying to build a side
project, watch TV or play games than being a healthy, balanced human being.

I work 40 hours a week. If I have work shit poking into my life beyond that on
a regular basis, it's time to talk to my manager.

Don't lose your life to sitting on a computer coding. You can write software
(or whatever you do) until you die, but you can't get back time lost, moments,
relationships, friends and family.

As hokey as it may sound, and as often as I had people around me warning me
about this, it took me awhile to figure it out. Sadly, it will take many nerds
a long time to figure out and I'm convinced most never do.

When I die, I don't want my only memories to be coding on my laptop at home.
There's so much more to try out and discover. Art, music, people, cooking,
travel, whatever. IDK. Find some stuff and do more of it.

~~~
gargalatas
I disagree. I would rather say: Do whatever you want to do. If you wanna code
all day, just do it! This is freedom!

So if you wanna work all day, find a way around your gf's complaints. If you
think your gf is pushing too much then probably she isn't for you.

Sometimes I have the same problem and I try to be very straight: I always
worked so much!

~~~
brianbarker
In the end you can't have both. If you work all the time your interpersonal
relationships with suffer. The original post is asking for advice in a
situation where he is unable to spend enough time away from work and appears
to want to keep a lady friend.

------
ak39
SCHEDULE.

1\. Schedule most times spent with spouse. For _everything_. I really mean
everything. Dinner date? Schedule it in advance. Going house-hunting? Schedule
the visits. Movies? Schedule the evening way in advance. Visiting folks? Agree
on a set date.

2\. Stick to the schedules like a mofo. Integrity integrity integrity.
Promises broken because schedules could not be kept are more likely the reason
for an unhappy spouse (or kids!) rather than the amount of time spent with
them. No one likes getting their hopes up only to be let down last minute.

3\. Never accept an impromptu activity with spouse without agreeing to set off
existing agreed upon schedules. This reinforces your commitment to the
discipline of schedules. They know you are serious about your time and doing
so shows that you acknowledge and respect theirs.

4\. Try to keep one day of the week as a wild card where you don't work and
simply say yes to anything they (spouse/kids) ask. Schedule this day secretly
without telling them. This is the day you can "disrupt" them by saying "Let's
go for ice cream" while they are busy. See what happens.

5\. When complaints are raised against you for not spending enough time with
them, open your schedules - demonstrate the obvious.

6\. Never work on a Sunday. This should be your wild card day.

~~~
DustinCalim
I strongly disagree with this advice.

There is no faster way to suck the emotion out of a relationship than to put a
schedule at the center of it, and hiding behind the excuse of the schedule is
just deferring responsibility.

~~~
ak39
Scheduling time with spouse (and for kids) is the only honest and practical
way of dealing with the question/challenge of "balancing" work life and family
life. It's about setting boundaries. And respectful boundaries are always
healthy for all in the relationship.

And by "balance" I don't mean equal - I mean having both.

~~~
DanBC
Your post made me angry. I just deleted the post I had written. Here's the
replacement.

Not seeing your children unless you have scheduled time to do so is bizarre.
Some people would suggest it's borderline mildly abusive.

Children _must_ come before work. It's really fucking simple. This principle
is enshrined in the internationally agreed (although I know the US never
ratifies these things) human rights for the child.
[http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx](http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx)

Not seeing your children without scheduling time for them has nothing to do
with "healthy" (it soumds pathological) nor "respectful boundaries".

The default must be "all my time is spent with my family. Here's the time I
set aside for work, but if anything happens to my children I can shift that
work to a different time".

~~~
simoncion
> Children must come before work. It's really fucking simple. This principle
> is enshrined in the internationally agreed...

I read through that Convention, but didn't see any language that backs up your
claim. Perhaps I missed it. Can you tell me which part and which article
establishes the principle that you claim it does?

~~~
DanBC
In the pre-amble

"Recognizing that the child, for the full and harmonious development of his or
her personality, should grow up in a family environment, in an atmosphere of
happiness, love and understanding,"

And Article 3, section 1:

"1\. In all actions concerning children, whether undertaken by public or
private social welfare institutions, courts of law, administrative authorities
or legislative bodies, the best interests of the child shall be a primary
consideration."

~~~
simoncion
Article 3, section 1 has no bearing on the actions of the individual. Notice
that the language that targets institutions and governments.

The preamble speaks only of the environment that a child should be placed in.
If it is necessary that both parents work 120 hours per week to provide such
an environment for their children, then that is behavior that is supported by
that Convention.

------
issa
Part of a successful relationship is having compatible goals in life. There is
no correct answer to how much work is too much. Some people want to never work
and spend all day on the beach. Others think the beach is boring and would
much rather be creating something. Most people are the middle.

If your girlfriend thinks you work too much, you probably either need to work
less or get a new girlfriend.

One thing that is definitely not "quality time" is fighting over how much you
are working. Everyone loses.

Good luck!

~~~
danielrhodes
This kind of black and white thinking is just going to cause you to lose your
girlfriend. If there's a happy medium, take it.

~~~
issa
Your comment is totally reasonable and I'm certainly not suggesting dropping
someone the first time compromise is required.

But I don't see why there needs to be so much emphasis on couples staying
together. The OP doesn't say, and it is certainly possible that I am making
incorrect assumptions, but it sounds like they are young and don't have
children together. (no one over 30 would say "gf", right??)

So who cares? If they are meant to be, the work/life balance won't be a big
issue. If they are incompatible, better to find out now, before they are older
and DO have kids.

I want to add that the readers of this site probably put way more time into
work (and work-related activities) than the typical person. If your
significant other expects work to be 9-5, you should probably disappoint them
sooner rather than later.

------
personlurking
I think it's about setting aside quality time with your SO, so that she feels
heard and paid attention to. Quality time isn't watching a tv show together in
silence, nor going out with the same group of friends, rather it's more about
no distractions, just you and her. But if your work schedule takes up so much
of your time that you rarely see her, then that's a problem (and would be for
just about anyone). LTRs are like a plant, gotta water it.

------
codezero
I went from academia to a startup after being married. My wife was worried
this would mean I work way too much. We came up with a specific plan. Three
days a week I would be home at no later than 6. I could go in as early as I
wanted. The other days I could stay as late as I wanted. Weekends were for us
to spend time together. If there was a one off or some important thing, she
wasn't worried since we had a clear agreement in place. Later the three days a
week was made two days and this was also Ok.

Separately, just listen. If your SO wants to spend more time, make time. If
you can't or won't then ask what is important to you and make a decision.

Another thing that helps is to plan specific things to do. Go on a hike, go to
the beach, these kinds of memorable moments are more significant than going to
a restaurant or hanging out on the couch.

This may not apply if you are in a relationship with dependency or trust
issues. If you are go see a counselor and work that out first.

------
rmcastil
> what would you do when your gf/bf/wife/husband complains about it?

When my wife complains about it, I just listen. She's also a working
professional who works a ton more than I do so it's usually a red flag if she
brings it up. A lot of times it's not about coming up with a resolution but
just trying to understand what she is frustrated with.

> So how do you handle this balance?

When I first started working remote about 10 years ago I didn't think it was
an issue. It was supposed to be the dream setup.

But then I eventually had kids and started my own company and saw the lines
between work/life blur. At first I told myself this was natural since it was
one of the side affects of being remote but I quickly became dissatisfied with
that answer. This was especially the case when I felt like I had to start
choosing between time with my family and time for work.

I eventually came to realize that life stuff (i.e. family, relationships,
etc.) aren't a time suck from work but a healthy constraint.

For me, success does not come from pouring every ounce of energy I have into
work but from embracing the constraints of my life. I use these constraints to
focus on the most important things I have to do for work so that I can get
back to my family as soon as possible.

For more of a practical standpoint the following are the things I do to manage
the balance (especially since my home is where I work).

\- Have doors on the office.

\- Family time, is strictly family time. No emails on the phone, github
issues, harvest invoice, etc. I'm not perfect at this but I try to go with the
distraction free iPhone methodology [[https://medium.com/life-hacks/my-year-
with-a-distraction-fre...](https://medium.com/life-hacks/my-year-with-a-
distraction-free-iphone-and-how-to-start-your-own-experiment-6ff74a0e7a50)]

\- Have strict business hours.

\- Don't blur the line between work and personal health. Which means eating
appropriately and getting the appropriate amount of sleep.

~~~
issa
This is all great advice. The key (over time) is in working more efficiently
and productively, not working more hours.

------
robg
I've been with my now wife for 17 years. Most important rule:

 _Make dedicated time for her_ every day for a minutes, every week for a few
hours, every month for a few days, every year for a few weeks.

That basically means dedicated listening for one short conversation a day, one
dedicated dinner each week, one dedicated weekend together each month, and one
dedicated vacation together each year.

Any by dedicated, I mean no phones or computers or texts. Give her your time.
It need not be huge amounts. But show she is important.

Of course you will fall short. But the goal is to try. She will see that.

------
gmays
This is a difficult question because you're the only one who can answer it. Do
you really work too much or is your girlfriend just needy and need to get a
hobby? Maybe you're in your early 20's and working a lot right now is more
critical to your future than a relationship with a girl who's not the love of
your life. Maybe you're in your 30's, work 100hrs/wk, you've been dating this
girl for 5 years, love her, and she's your last real chance at a relationship
for you. How many more at bats do you have (some function of age and how easy
it is for you to get women)?

Only you know the answer to this, so what do you think? Ask yourself, 1) if
you worked less and made her happy or 2) your continued working at this pace
and let her leave, what would you regret more in 5 years? Maybe you won't know
how you really feel about her until you leave her. That's what happened with
my wife and I.

I understand the draw of work. To this day I still work too much because I
absolutely love what I do and the feeling it gives me. But I've been married 6
years and I love my wife more. If my work got in the way of our relationship,
I would change things. But this is only because I _know_ she's worth it.

So look over the advice here, but you're the only one that can really answer
that question. The answer isn't at the end of some math equation, it's in your
gut. Honestly, IMHO if you have to ask us just let her go and get back to
work.

------
thom
If you're asking for relationship advice on HN, I strongly suspect your mind
is already made up and you're just looking for useful rationalisations.

------
koonsolo
Imagine yourself having reached the 'success' you are currently pursuing.
Imagine how much you will have to sacrifice in order to reach it. It certainly
gives a thrill reaching the goals you set in you life. But there is one big
question you have to ask yourself: what will you do after you have reached
your success? Do you think _you_ will be different? Do you think you will be
happier? I can give you the answer: after reaching your goals, you will still
be the same person as before, and you will still be as (un)happy as before.
But you will have 1 extra question on your mind: why am I not happier now that
I have reached my goals?

I hope you play games, because my answer is this: life is like a video game,
it gives a thrill when winning it, but the real joy comes from playing it.

Enjoy your time at work, and enjoy the time you spend with your girlfriend.
Your personal success is not measured by reaching some goal, but it's measured
by how much fun you're having in your life (and yes, work should be fun, but
spending time with your girlfriend should also be).

Sorry that I didn't gave a practical answer, but I hope it helps.

~~~
suanmeiguo
You brought a very good point. Thank you.

------
tkt
If you're driven to be successful either for financial reasons or because
there's something you're passionate about and your partner isn't supportive of
that vision or goal, then there will always be a tension when you're pursuing
something they don't think is valuable. Is your definition of success the same
as their's?

------
tootie
I leave the office before 6 almost every day to pick up one or the other kid.
Wide does the same. Always have dinner together. Never work weekends unless
it's a serious emergency. You'd be amazed how easy it is to just get up and go
and finish what you're doing tomorrow. Hasn't slowed my career much at all.

------
AndrewDucker
Look at your priorities. What level of work makes you happy. What level makes
them happy. Which is more important - your success, or your relationship.

Work out what the effects of your choices will be, and then consciously make a
decision that will work best for you in the long run.

------
DustinCalim
This is about Priorities–

I suggest you spend a few minutes and do a deep session of introspection and
meditate on what your true priorities are.

It's not nearly as easy as it sounds...

Here are some questions to get you rolling: Why are you working so much? For
you? For someone else? For the money? If so, why? What will you do with that
money? Is it for you? A family? Do you find yourself enjoying your girlfriend
more than your work? What do you get out of your relationship? Why are you
with this person? Why are you working on your specific project?

The idea is to discover what you truly value and align your priorities with
that– Good luck!

------
HeyLaughingBoy
It may be a common problem but each solution is going to be different. Before
you have a solution, you need to understand the problem. Listen to her. Why
does she think you work too much? What would she prefer you do (spend time
with her is too generic: she most likely has specific issues in mind. ASK).

I can't stress this enough: listen to her. Listen to what she's saying, not
just what you expect her to say or what you think she's saying. Actually clear
your mind and listen. Then the two of you can start to figure out what to do
about it.

------
texthompson
Some ideas: * Listen to them, have a conversation about optimal work life
balance. * Think about your habits, ask if you're working too much, too
little, or just the right amount. * Ask yourself every hour that you work if
you think that hour had been productive, or if you have been unproductively
"working" due to exhaustion. * Consider having all of these conversations
after a vacation or some other form of time off, because it's easy to be
myopic when you're in the middle of working.

------
shearnie
Run a time tracker and log every task you are doing. Cracking the 40 hour mark
means you are not prioritizing your time properly or you are meant to be
single for a while.

Time tracking is also perfect for accountability in your performance, and also
how reasonable your employer is. If you're on a salary for a 40 hour week but
end up in the 50 hour territory you are sacrificing precious family time that
you'll never get back, for your boss. For free.

------
wooyi
Do what you love. Balance is not quite possible. I work a lot. I probably
spend an hour or so a day with my kids. But I love my work. They will
understand. As for dealing with SO, if they are not on board or understand
your passion then you got bigger problems than time management. You are on a
mission. Your SO should understand that. It is who you are.

------
soupajoe
Listening to them deeply and finding out their core frustrations is key, just
like how you would interact with a user to discover their pain points. In my
experience, when my partner claims I work too much it isn't always because I
literally work too much.

Of course, sometimes my work/life balance needs to be readjusted and brought
back to an acceptable equilibrium. However, the frustration often comes from
not conveying my love for her in a way she recognizes and receives it.

The book The Five Love Languages[1], by Gary Chapman, opened my eyes to this.
I'd recommend it to everyone. The premise of the book is that we all have
unique preferences for what we find satisfying when it comes to love. Your
love language is the way that you feel most loved. People usually love their
partner how they want to be loved, and that doesn't tend to align with how
their partner wants to be loved. You need to convey your love in a way that
matches your partner's love language [2].

In my situation, I've thought deeply and talked with my partner about this
concept and determined our Love Languages. I now fill the time I spend with
her to the brim with activities and behaviors that convey my love for her
effectively. I've found that no matter how much time I end up spending with my
her, the actual amount of time becomes a non-issue when she feels loved in a
way that really resonates with her.

It might help to think about it in terms of the 80-20 rule[3], doing the 20%
of effort necessary (conveying your love in a way that actually gets received)
to get 80% of the return (a satisfied and loved partner). That may sound a bit
cold when applied to relationships- to try to minimize the effort required to
convey your love, but it's actually the nicest thing you can do for them.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/The-Love-Languages-Secret-
Lasts/dp/080...](http://www.amazon.com/The-Love-Languages-Secret-
Lasts/dp/0802473156/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)

[2] High level overview of the five love languages:

\- Words of Affirmation \- If this is your love language, you feel most cared
for when your partner is open and expressive in telling you how wonderful they
think you are, how much they appreciate you, that their world is a better
place because you are in it, etc.

\- Acts of Service \- If your partner offering to watch the kids so you can go
to the gym (or relieving you of some other task) gets your heart going, then
this is your love language.

\- Affection \- This love language is just as it sounds. A warm hug, a kiss,
touch, and sexual intimacy make you feel most loved when this is your love
language.

\- Quality Time \- This love language is about being together, fully present
and engaged in the activity at hand, no matter how trivial.

\- Gifts \- Your partner taking the time to give you a gift can make you feel
appreciated.

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle)

~~~
judk
What if your partner's love language is Quality Time, and OP knows it?

~~~
soupajoe
Then OP would have to work on finding more time to spend with them, and a lot
of other comments address possible ways to improve this.

Personally, when my partner complained about not spending enough time
together, I increased the time I spent with her, and it didn't help alleviate
the frustrations she was feeling. She thought that what mattered to her was
Quality Time, but it was really hearing Words of Affirmation that was
important (I see a similarity with users who say they want a particular
feature, but really just want to solve a certain pain point). Only when we
figured out how she feels maximally loved was I able to use the time I spent
with her effectively.

I thought maybe OP could be in the same boat.

------
jordsmi
I think the best thing is to be with someone who understands your work life,
and either doesn't mind it or has something similar on their own.

There is nothing worse than having a SO who is the type of person who barely
works and then wants to party and do things nonstop, while all you want to do
is work on that project you have yet to finish.

------
mrkurt
This is rarely about time, and more about relative importance. Work can be an
obsession, which is easy to confuse with "more important than me."

I doubt your girlfriend is asking for work/life balance, exactly. She's
probably just saying she wants to feel as important as work seems. That's a
thing you can work on.

------
sylvinus
You should have in mind that the time you spend on your startup is not
linearly correlated to its success.

~~~
suanmeiguo
Interesting. I never thought it this way. They're still correlated though
right?

~~~
sylvinus
Definitely correlated! And the function must be different in each case, but
I'd bet it's never linear :)

------
nc
Is every extra hour you're spending working _really_ worth it? I'd figure out
how to minimise the time required to accomplish tasks, defer them, delegate
them and then also scrutinise the actual tasks themselves.

Once you're done with that do you still not have enough free time?

------
damon_c
My GF rarely complains that I work too much because sometimes _she_ works too
much. That helps a lot!

------
rayiner
I married a woman who works in my field and understands my hours because she
works them too.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Understanding doesn't add any hours to the day. So you're not seeing much of
each other, and don't yet resent it. But its easy for that to start happening.
And I don't know any cure other than 'spend more time together' which means
working fewer hours.

