
Taking stock of startup innovation in the Netherlands - century19
http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/05/the-netherlands-a-look-at-the-worlds-high-tech-startup-capital/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29
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jacquesm
The Netherlands is quite a few things, one thing it isn't is "The World’s
High-Tech Startup Capital".

We have some (very) neat start-ups but we're very far still from reaching our
potential and compared to countries around us and of course the US we need to
make significant moves if NL is to remain a player in the future.

On the plus side: access to capital is getting easier all the time (but there
is still a long long way to go before we can begin to claim parity with the
real High-Tech Startup Capital, Silicon Valley), on the down side, the big
companies are just as effective (if not even more effective) here in
recruiting Dutch talent to work for them directly or to emigrate.

Yes, we have a bit of an advantage being small on the language front (just
being able to speak Dutch is pretty much un-heard of, at a minimum the Dutch
will typically speak passable English and probably either German, French or
both).

The 'success story' when it comes to funding is heavily skewed by two very
large deals totalling 275 million out of the 500 million.

The majority of the deals here is sub $1M!

So even if all the information out there can be used to paint a rosy picture
the fact is that we're definitely not a leader in much of anything and a ton
of work remains to be done.

The good news is most people in the start-up scene here are painfully aware of
this and working hard at improving it.

So that one day we may be able to do justice by the title.

~~~
davedx
It's funny. This article paints a picture of incredible industrial innovation,
but if you look at dutchstartupjobs.com, the majority of the startups here
seem to be social media or marketing related, just like the rest of the
country.

It's the service industry capital of the world.

Of course, some of the high tech startups/SMB's that do exist here can be
pretty damn impressive! The list of Dutch startups on this site gives me hope:
[http://www.climate-kic.org/start-ups/](http://www.climate-kic.org/start-ups/)

~~~
ht_th
There are two very different "startup scences" in the Netherlands. The
social/cultural/financial startups seem to aggregate around Amsterdam. For the
more interesting and high tech stuff you have to look at Delft, Twente, and in
particular the Eindhoven areas. For food and agricultural stuff, the place to
be is the Wageningen area. Often, from an international or Hollandish
perspective, the Netherlands is equated to Amsterdam and vice versa, but that
results in a very skewed image of the Netherlands and the startup scene in
particular.

(For example, on the website you refer to, there seems to be only one
Eindhoven area job and that's for front-end development to boot. Apparently,
this website does not give a good representation of start-up jobs in the
Netherlands, but focuses on Randstad webdevelopment jobs instead.)

~~~
ValleyOfTheMtns
Anything interesting happening up in Groningen?

~~~
goddabuzz
HackerOne is located in Groningen

[http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/24/hackerone-bags-25m-as-
secur...](http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/24/hackerone-bags-25m-as-security-
info-sharing-mainstreams/)

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Hhefferman1989
I'm getting very bored with the start-up cheerleading industry in Europe: a
small but very vocal number of publications (Tech.eu, The Next Web, TechCrunch
EU) and event organisers constantly championing random cities in Europe as up-
and-coming technology epicentres to rival Silicon Valley. Even London, which
is by any reasonable measure the largest hub of start-up activity in Europe
and has seen the most significant exits, comes nowhere close to Silicon Valley
in terms of deal volume, capital availability, density of senior talent, etc.
Sure, tech start-ups exist in Amsterdam and in Berlin, and in Stockholm, and
in Barcelona, but these cities aren't technology hubs, creating self-
sustaining economies driven by meaningful exits and the development of world-
leading domain expertise: many of the start-ups in these cities are only
sustainable because VCs in Europe are primarily funded by European
governments. That's what a "hub" is; take away the hype and the government
money and it still exists.

~~~
nraynaud
I agree with most of the message, but remember that in the US everything is
funded by the government too (direct investments, state contracts, research
contracts, tax-breaks etc).

~~~
fennecfoxen
Well... there is a lot of tech stuff in the US funded by the government, but
the wildly successful Silicon Valley style "startup scene" usually isn't
really where that money is sent. More like SpaceX/Tesla/etc, a few solar panel
manufacturers, and large businesses.

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kriro
Interesting article but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the
excellent school system is the cause of the good English skills of the Dutch
(which undoubtedly exist). It's far more likely that the major reason is the
non-subbed TV/movies imo (well a combination of both)

I've always associated the Netherlands with being a tech saavy nation. They
always had a vivid hacking scene for example. Additionally the Dutch tend to
be citizens of the world and pretty open minded which is a good mix. I
completely agree with the assessment of Amsterdam. Nice city, not overly
expensive, pretty great for youngish people -> good competitive edge (Berlin
is similar but Amsterdam has more of a startupy general vibe imo).

~~~
codfrantic
>It's far more likely that the major reason is the non-subbed TV/movies imo

For the current set of people in their twenties I agree. However, a lot more
kids TV these days is dubbed instead of subtitled. I notice that English with
14 year olds these days seems less advanced then ten years ago.

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kartikkumar
Having studied in Delft I can attest to the change occurring on campus.
YES!Delft has changed significantly over the last few years and there are
quite a few disruptive companies coming out of the incubator program. I
regularly talk to a few of the resident entrepreneurs and I get the feeling
that it’s the lack of capital that’s really hindering growth. For a previous
startup that I abandoned, the advice I got was to prepare my pitch and fly out
to SV, only because investors seem to be following instead of leading in The
Netherlands.

I’m not working on another startup and I’ve gotten some great advice. It’s
made me realize that certain sectors are probably easier to raise money for.
In this low-interest rate environment, there’s probably a lot more capital
seeking investment across the board.

Curious if anyone in Delft or elsewhere in the country has an investors
perspective on what the fundraising environment will be like within the next
12 months.

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jsumrall
I've interviewed with some startups in Amsterdam, and many seem to want to pay
below market rates with no equity. I think this is hindering the startup scene
in the Netherlands. Philips and other big companies are taking all the entry
level talent because they pay more, leaving startups with less offerings. For
example, of all the talented students graduating CS at TU Eindhoven this year,
I'm not aware of any who are considering startups (Except me! PM if you know
of openings!). When Philips and KPMG and the other big players offer 2x
salary, it's hard to turn them down.

~~~
makeitsuckless
Even at traditional companies software engineering salaries are not
particularly high.

That's why most CS students choose to go towards consultancy job, and never
write a line of code in the rest of their careers. (Those who want to do
engineering choose hardware, which is much more respected and better paid.)

As a result, most software startups are started by MBA's and rarely by
engineers, which perpetuates the circle of undervaluing software engineering
skills.

~~~
davedx
I dunno. What's particularly high? Salaries here aren't on par with Silicon
Valley for sure, but they're not bad either in a lot of the places I've looked
into or worked at. It's easy to get 50k+ EUR/year, sometimes up to 70 or even
higher for senior roles.

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amelius
Not sure if we should give most software companies the label "high tech". I
think that should be reserved for really innovative companies in the fields of
energy or biology, or... software if it is truly innovative.

If a company is working with HTML and CSS and perhaps some tools pulled of
github, then, imho, that's not high-tech. Or what would we call a company
working on nuclear fusion, or on protein synthesis?

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realrocker
Interesting. Was wondering how hard it is to get a work visa?

~~~
nothrabannosir
If you are from the US or Japan you should absolutely check out DAFT: the
Dutch-American Friendship Treaty:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_%28treaty%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_%28treaty%29)

[https://ind.nl/EN/individuals/residence-
wizard/work/working-...](https://ind.nl/EN/individuals/residence-
wizard/work/working-on-a-self-employed-basis)

It allows you to be a freelancer in Holland. No citizenship, but you do get a
residency permit that is up for renewal every 2 years, as long as you satisfy
the requirements (no social benefits, only freelancing, &c).

~~~
melvinmt
Unfortunately the "friendship" is not mutual :(

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paultnylund
One thing I noticed while touring the university in Eindhoven was that
students are pretty much brainwashed to serve the lighting industry. I really
disagreed with the sentiment that there was any so-called "innovation" to be
made in the field. This might sound ridiculous, but if The Netherlands wants
to create actual change, they'll need to move beyond LEDs.

