

Show HN: My new project - Making Ads Fun - ashraful
http://ashraful.org/play/

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corin_
Truthfully (and, sorry, quite bluntly) I can't imagine this seeing any success
or going anywhere. There are already places for people who want to do things
(e.g. answer surveys) to earn points (aka prizes), if I want to do this then I
will go to those sites, not wait hoping an advert appears.

~~~
ashraful
But would you not consider this to be a better alternative to a plain ad.

Also, the sites you talk about are rather shady. You need to fill out lengthy
surveys that collect your personal information. Here you are simply presented
with tasks that are designed to expose you to the brand, not steal your
information.

~~~
corin_
I wouldn't consider it better, no. For one thing, I don't think it will
improve user engagement. For another, I think users who are enticed by these
adverts are not the users you want to engage (not to say they aren't worth
anything, just not much).

~~~
ashraful
Can you please elaborate a bit more?

~~~
corin_
More than anything right now it's a gut feeling. Digging into why I have this
feeling, the first few thoughts that come to mind include:

\- Let's say you are offering me a free starbucks, and I have to click 5
adverts to get it. When I walk past a Starbucks do I buy a coffee, or do I
think "that reminds me, I need to click more adverts before I go into
Starbucks"? Perhaps even bigger, let's say it's for a graphics card, I decide
I want it, but I don't want to buy it until I've seen enough adverts to get
that 5% discount I was offered... What if I never see those adverts again?
What if I forget about it, or see a different product before I've got there?

\- I assume your tracking is based on cookies/etc rather than a login, and a
huge number of people browse from more than one device, so that would be
annoying

\- Interactive "get something free" adverts are generally assumed to be scams,
how do you get around the association that people will have between "get a
free iphone" and "get a free starbucks coffee"?

The concept of engaging users, rather than just shouting at them, isn't new,
and it does work, but I'm just not convinced that through banner adverts is
the way to do it.

From your site, _"If you’re an advertiser or publisher who is interested in
trying out PLAY..."_ I'm a publisher / work in digital advertising, and while
(as you might have guessed) I'm not sold on it, I'd certainly be interested to
hear more as you move along. So if you fancy trying to change my mind any
time, corin.c.cole(gmail) :)

~~~
ashraful
Thanks so much for elaborating. I agree that each point you raised are quite
valid, and each of them are drawbacks that PLAY has.

1\. Its true that there's a chance that users may delay purchases in order to
get discounts, and its a common issue for deals site like Groupon (where
instead of going back to the business they wait for other similar deals from
the same or other businesses). One reason I feel it'll be less of an issue for
us is that we are using points, and these points can be used up now, or
accrued to get larger rewards. So if you have 4 points and you need 1 more to
get a free cup of coffee from Starbucks, you don't feel the need to wait,
because you can always either get another cup of coffee for free later or
simply keep the points and save it up for a bigger reward.

In case of the graphics card, even if you wait for the 5% discount, the ad has
been effective because you are paying attention to that brand and favoring it
over others. Its up to the advertiser to not put up deals that would hurt
themselves (like offering the graphics card for free).

2\. Both tracking cookies and having the user log in are clumsy and deters
people from engaging. We are opting to have the user log in, and we're trying
to do it in a very elegant way (after the user collects the first point, they
are asked to "save" their progress). However, we will experiment with all
possible options and see what works the best and provides the least friction.

3\. This is another very critical issue we face. To counter this we will have
to start out with trusted publishers and advertisers. Basically, the ads would
have to be seen on websites where you know they wouldn't put up fraudulent ads
or scams. Good design would also play a role, since most scam ads are overtly
flashy and are poorly designed.

Having said all that, its all based in hunches and gut feelings now. We are
building the first prototype and we hope that once we complete that, we can
run some test campaigns, to better understand the issues. We know that this
platform will have major flaws but we feel that we can also find the solutions
for them. The flaws may or may not be the ones you pointed out, and the
solutions I presented may or may not work, but we think this idea deserves to
be tried and tested. And I personally feel that I can make it successful
(otherwise I wouldn't be working on it).

~~~
corin_
How many people are involved in this, and is it a "in our spare time" or a
"this is our new life" thing?

Either way, look forward to hearing more, and cheering for you despite my
doubts.

~~~
ashraful
Its sort of in-between.

Its under a startup lab (inlith.com) I created, and we are (or rather will be)
working on multiple projects. We are also doing consulting work
(madebyargon.com) on the side to bootstrap them.

PLAY is our first project, and our number one priority, and currently we are
focusing all our energy into this. We are fully prepared to "make this our new
life".

edit: Inlith has two founders, me (designer) and a friend of mine (business
guy). We are based in Bangladesh. We plan to hire 4-5 developers initially, as
employees, to work on our projects. PLAY is being managed by me and two
programmers (all equity-holders), so there are three people working full-time
on PLAY.

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nollidge
The example screenshots are almost unreadably small, even with the little
zoomed-in area. I realize you can click on them, but why not just zoom the
inset full-size to begin with?

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revorad
I generally hate ads, but I see some educational value in this. Hope to see it
in action. Are you going to put it on Facebook?

~~~
ashraful
I used Facebook and Starbucks as arbitrary examples. I would love to have
Facebook as a publisher, but I don't think they'd abandon their own ad
platform and integrate a third-party one.

~~~
revorad
I'm sure I have seen ads in the form of polls on Facebook.

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swlkr
I suppose this is a DoubleRecall competitor? If I were going to put my money
on either of these projects/products I'd go with double recall, looks like it
takes less effort on the part of the person viewing the ad.

~~~
tadruj
Thx for the vote of confidence for DoubleRecall. I think that this is an
interesting idea but there are lots of obstacles to cross with any engagement
ads, so it's definitely an agility test for the concept and the team, not so
much about which product is the best. The one who gets the flag with any
engagement product will be big bucks :) and we're running and jumping hard.

~~~
ashraful
Hey. I'd love to talk to you, both about your product DoubleRecall, and about
your experience as a non-US based startup.

Please email me at inltih@gmail.com

~~~
tadruj
mail does not work

~~~
ashraful
sorry, it's inlith@gmail.com

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pstuart
Bah! I don't want ads that are fun. I want ads that are selling me things I
want.

~~~
ashraful
There are two ways in which we plan to do this.

1\. Your friends can "share" ads with you, so you get to see ads recommended
by your friends.

2\. Some ads will have rewards you want and so you'll interact with them. Some
will have rewards you don't want and so you'll ignore them. We will learn from
your interactions what type of ads and offers you like the most and try to
serve you ads you are more likely to interact with.

Plus we'll also use information you share with us to present ads to you. For
example, if we know your location we'll be able to show ads from local
businesses.

~~~
pstuart
#1 and #2 are still more of the same "social advertising" bullshit. The last
bit is where it gets interesting.

~~~
corin_
Number two is nothing to do with social at all, it's simply analysing what
adverts you click on to work out what you're interested in. Just like Google
do.

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Hisoka
I don't like this at all. And I wouldn't consider this fun. Where exactly is
the game in this? You're just answering poll questions.

~~~
dkokelley
I don't think you truly understand the concept presented. This is not about
answering poll questions (although that is one example). This is about making
ads more rewarding to the audience. Now, ads are obtrusive, obnoxious, and act
as roadblocks to the things you really want. (Want to watch this TV show? You
must pay 7 ads worth of your time.)

By making the ads engaging, the audience actually enjoys the interaction. The
ad is no longer an obstacle, it's a reward (or at least, the path to one). The
ads don't have to be about answering poll questions. What if you could play
the McDonald's monopoly game from Facebook? I love the monopoly game.

~~~
Hisoka
No, I do understand.

It's a fake engagement experience - I know they're trying to sell me
something. It's like a car salesman who invites you to dinner so he can
secretly establish rapport and sell you a car afterwards.

As for playing Monopoly from Facebook, that's totally different than what your
screenshots were implying. That's a more interactive ad experience, but that's
not a new concept. People have been doing that for years.

~~~
dkokelley
To be clear, these are not _MY_ screenshots. I have no affiliation with this
project.

I don't think establishing rapport is something done in secret.

To make sure I understand correctly, your objection to this project comes from
the fact that it's not new ( _"but that's not a new concept. People have been
doing that for years."_ ). I mention that because the article clearly implies
more than what is shown in the screenshots. Is that correct?

I agree that advertisers have been trying to increase interaction for a long
time. This project seems to be a new attempt at achieving that. it looks
promising, and I wish them well.

~~~
Hisoka
How is it new though?

