
It's Gibberish, But Italian Pop Song Still Means Something  - danso
http://www.npr.org/2012/11/04/164206468/its-gibberish-but-italian-pop-song-still-means-something
======
JasonFruit
I'm amazed at how well he has the sounds down. I'd never peg him as Italian,
and I probably wouldn't realize it was gibberish until the backup singers did
it slowly; I'd think I was just failing to get it, like listening to Dylan on
a bad day.

I'm amazed at the contrast with British actors trying to do American accents,
which never fool me; is it easier to do it with gibberish, or is he just
unusually good at mimicking American sounds?

~~~
DanBC
> which never fool me

Really never, or do you just never notice?

There was a great YouTube video here
(<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cAnFbEXY0>) - but it seems to have been
removed by the user. Not sure if there's any way to find it now. It was
Americans speaking gibberish, and it sounded pretty convincingly like
language.

~~~
CKKim
"Really never, or do you just never notice?"

Indeed. Folks seem unbelievably harsh on accents they know not to be the
native one, which is _every time a famous actor does an accent_ , but all
those no-names doing even not very good ones fly straight under their radar,
making me highly skeptical it's not just confirmation bias.

Christian Bale often keeps his American accents for interviews and press.
There might be something in that...

~~~
derleth
> Folks seem unbelievably harsh on accents they know not to be the native one,
> which is every time a famous actor does an accent

Either Hugh Laurie isn't famous, or you don't have any idea he's British. ;)

Every time he plays House, he's doing a fake American accent. He just does it
really, amazingly well.

Here's Hugh Laurie as the Prince of Wales (the total idiot) in a short segment
from the series "Blackadder the Third":

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSYiT2iG08>

~~~
CKKim
Great example, and I believe complementary to my observation. If talk show
interviews are to be believed then when Hugh Laurie began on House he _wasn't_
famous in America, and most people _didn't_ have any idea he was British. The
show was a hit, everyone loved him, and then it's far too late for anyone to
erroneously pick apart his flawless accent.

It's almost impossible to imagine, but if Hugh Laurie had been popular in
America, and his natural voice widely known, then the reception to that series
could have been very different, purely from unfounded criticism of the accent.
And if this is starting to sound a little far-fetched, let's not forget it all
began with someone saying "British actors trying to do American accents,
_which never fool me_ ".

~~~
mgkimsal
Well... I knew he was British, as did some of the people I know that watched
the show, and it really didn't have any impact on how we watched it (at least,
nothing we noticed ourselves noticing).

------
joezydeco
Anyone else remember that latin pop song "Asereje" by Las Ketchup? You're
probably dancing to it on your game console right now:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFzyYYZsxGc>

The chorus is a nonsense, a spanish-sounding reproduction of Sugarhill Gang's
"Rapper's Delight"

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masonlee
This song made its biggest splash three years ago on Boing Boing:
<http://boingboing.net/2009/12/17/gibberish-rock-song.html>

(Google trends graph
[http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Prisencolinensinainci...](http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=Prisencolinensinainciusol)
)

------
stcredzero
Pretty much the entirety of the Cocteau Twins discography is this. A few Enya
songs as well.

Also: "Bork, bork, bork!" <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY_Yf4zz-yo>

EDIT: Let's be honest here, quite a few ordinary pop songs are also gibberish
masquerading as coherent language.

EDIT: Richard Feynman even got into the act once as a young man. Ironically,
he was an English speaker doing gibberish Italian:
[http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-surely-youre-joking-mr-
fe...](http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-surely-youre-joking-mr-
feynman/chapanal005.html)

~~~
DanBC
> Pretty much the entirety of the Cocteau Twins

Well, there's some discussion whether she invented a language to sing in or if
she was just off her tits on heroin and LSD.

For the young 'uns:

Early, not pleasant to listen to - (<http://youtu.be/AF-hic7hNpk>) Later,
nicer - (<http://youtu.be/WORzTWzwtho>) Her singing 'live' recorded from VH1
to show it's not just post-production (<http://youtu.be/Xo-vh_q1xQQ>)

Very listenable - (<http://youtu.be/EIs6uc440Z4>)

And again - (<http://youtu.be/iD0STDHNM8A>)

~~~
stcredzero
_> Well, there's some discussion whether she invented a language to sing in or
if she was just off her tits on heroin and LSD._

The difference?

------
Aardwolf
Reminds me of when I was a child, didn't understand English (not my native
language) yet, and heard American songs on the radio!

~~~
opminion
Perhaps Gangnam Style is more of a novelty in the English-speaking countries,
where foreign pop music is uncommon, than in those countries where it is
common: Italian teenagers might not care that much whether it is in Korean or
English, whereas English teenagers will notice that they are dancing to a song
whose lyrics they cannot possibly understand.

~~~
pretoriusB
I am a European, and it depends on the country (and the age).

In a lot of European countries young people (up to 30+) have been taught
English and they can follow an English song quite easily. Even in France,
despite never admitting it in public. (This is especially true for music
fans).

They might have some trouble with heavy stuff, like some lyric heavy Dylan
songs or 500-wpm rap, but they can get most pop/dance songs alright.

~~~
opminion
Note that I didn't say that European teenagers wouldn't understand the English
lyrics, but that they won't care that much about the language, if only because
they are used to listening to music in other European languages.

~~~
Aardwolf
That makes it seem as if English is the same as just another European language
for a non English European. That is not really the case.

Most music and movie culture, especially for teenagers, is in fact English.
Less often it's your own native language, and even more rarely (but still
existant!) other European languages.

English is also the one non-native language you kind of learn automatically
(unlike other languages we had to learn at school), due to being surrounded by
it so much, and the internet.

Slightly off topic: When seeing one of the extremely rare movies made in my
own country, I'm always surprised by how awesome it is to see something I
actually can relate to, e.g. when they speak some juicy dialects or show some
typical living room in a house as they look here. American movies always seem
"fake" or something to me, and also always use the same dialect, but I wonder
if for Americans they can actually relate to that just like I can relate to
native movies of my own country :)

------
sdfjkl
Thanks to APD (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_processing_disorder>),
most songs sound like that to me (I can only understand fragments of most
lyrics unless I google them). I love music and listen to a lot of it, but most
of the time I like the sound and not the words.

~~~
vecter
That's pretty interesting. I feel like I have a hard time understanding people
in group settings. It's not uncommon that I have to ask people to repeat
themselves, and I feel I do this much more than other people. I'm also not
great at understanding song lyrics, but I feel like most people can't figure
them out either (based on all the faulty lyrics out there).

In one-on-one conversations, I'm usually fine though. Is this what you
experience, or is it much more dramatic?

~~~
Mz
People with auditory processing problems are negatively impacted by background
noise and tend to supplement their understanding of what was said with lip
reading, often without consciously realizing it. So they tend to do much
better in one on one discussions, which tend to have less background noise and
are typically more conducive to lip reading than group settings.

~~~
sdfjkl
This. Inability to separate out speech from background noise. I cannot have a
conversation in a pub, club or bar where there's loud background music or
noisy chatter. I can understand people perfectly fine in a quiet setting.
Therefore I avoid noisy places, which does negatively impact social life
(especially in younger years).

------
noonespecial
I've always been fascinated by "near language". Its an odd feeling as my brain
recognizes the basic sounds and tries to find a foothold but fails.

There was a story posted here quite a while ago about a short movie made
entirely in "english-like" language. I think it featured a couple arguing.
Maybe someone can help me out here? It gave me the eery feeling of being a
young child again listening to adults talking around me.

~~~
alnis
You're thinking of "Skwerl": <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4Dfa4fOEY>

~~~
noonespecial
Thank you. That was it.

------
CKKim
A similar effect can be heard in "Skwerl (How English sounds to non-English
speakers)": <http://youtu.be/Vt4Dfa4fOEY> (speaking starts at 0m30s).

It's not quite as good, is it? I wonder if this effect is easier to achieve in
a song or if it's more a case of how much time, talent, and effort goes into
making it.

------
loupeabody
That last quote about American English sounding like "anger born out of
resignation" is a bit ominous.

I'm fairly sure this Japanese band, White Ash, has nothing but pure gibberish
as lyrics. I'm aware that some Japanese musicians, despite not really being
able to effectively pronounce English words, will sing in English. Here
though, I cannot pick out any English:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5RmmIS1AIQ>

If I'd only heard the music, I would've assumed it was an American band.

*fixed "gibberish", had it spelled wrong

~~~
pyre

      "I sang it with an angry tone because the theme was
       important. It was an anger born out of resignation.
       I brought to light the fact that people don't
       communicate."
    

He sang it with an angry tone because he was angry. Nothing there says that
"American English sounds like anger born out of resignation to non-English
speakers."

~~~
loupeabody
Note that immediately after that point in the article:

 _But is that really what American English sounds like?

"Yes," he says. "Exactly like that."_

I apologize if it's not totally clear in my original comment, but I was
referring to Celentano's affirmation that American English sounds like anger
born out of resignation.

~~~
riffraff
From what I understand, he's not saying that, the anger is towards the lack of
communication. English sounds the way he speaks, but the tone (and the
question) is unrelated.

As an italian, I can tell you American English may sound many ways but I'd
never define it "angry".

~~~
jerf
Out of curiosity, how _would_ you describe it? As a American I can't get
enough distance to tell.

~~~
riffraff
ah, good question! I think "boasting" is the correct word. Loud, self-
important, maybe pretentious? But not in an unfriendly way, rather in a silly
one. Think of an overdone John Wayne gag.

To be honest, I think this has more to do with subconscious cultural
references, rather than the sound itself.

E.g. the sound of en_us always evokes Italians speaking in gibber-american-
english[0] rather than some martin luther king jr's speech.

[0] stuff like this <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1joXNHs4_ME>

~~~
jerf
I didn't want to excessively prejudice the answer, but to me English sounds
like a relatively harsh language. Every other language always seems to sound
smoother, except maybe really fast Spanish and to some extent Russian, which,
if not "harsh" per se, often sounds angry to me, or with all the slurred-
soundings Zs in it, drunk. No connection to the stereotype of drunk Russians
intended; one wonders if there is a connection there, though. (Though it could
also come from reality; from what I've seen of the statistics "drunk Russian",
alas, has a lot of truth to it.)

What really opened my eyes was German; if you read German with English
phonetics, it sounds _awful_ , though it's sort of fun to do. But when it is
read or spoken correctly, it's a more soft, flowing language than English.

------
donretag
This Italian band, which have a nonsensical name, should cover that song!
<http://www.supercanifradiciadespiaredosi.it/>

The difference between Celentano and Enya/Sigur Ros/etc is that Celentano was
trying to sound English and imitate a true language. The other bands were
using their voices more as another instrument; going for sounds that fit the
music.

------
Steko
Keisuke Kuwata doesn't sing gibberish but he has a very distinctive vocal
style based on the American blues/folk/rock singers he grew up on. The lyrics
are littered with English of course but even the Japanese lyrics are delivered
with a pseudo-English rhythm.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p3iNFsiv9Y>

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danso
I can't for the life of me remember where I had originally seen this video,
but the version I remember seeing was this, which looks like a (visual) remix
and is the far more nonsensical (and memorable) one, IMO:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZXcRqFmFa8>

~~~
StavrosK
You saw it on reddit, a while ago.

~~~
danso
No...it was bakadesuyo [http://www.bakadesuyo.com/what-english-sounds-like-to-
foreig...](http://www.bakadesuyo.com/what-english-sounds-like-to-foreigners/)

I knew what site, just not how to spell it

------
delibaltas
In case anybody is interested, the blond singer is Raffaella Carrà.

EDIT: I just noticed that it is mentioned in the origival YouTube page. Anyway
I am not removing the comment, because she was really a sex symbol, for all
southern Europe in the '70s!

------
spideyunlimited
The trilled 'r' sound at 0:29 is definitely not American English. Native
English speakers from America can hardly pull that off, which is why it's
funny to hear them try speaking spanish.

------
nostromo
Songwriters should use this as a designer uses lorem ipsum.

~~~
pretoriusB
Songwriters do use their version of lorem ipsum.

That said, they cannot use one and only set of lyrics (such as the above) for
all songs they write, because the appropriate "lorem ipsum" for each song
depends on its form (melody, rhythm, number of verses, etc).

They (well, we) use those "lorem ipsum" placeholder lyrics when they first
compose the music, to mark the phrasing they want to achieve. It can be either
gibberish or meaningless rhymes.

In one famous example, Paul McCartney famously wrote Yesterday's lyrics based
on the placeholder: "Scrambled eggs. Oh my baby how I love your legs.".

~~~
joezydeco
More infamously, Phil Collins "Sussudio" was a placeholder lyric that never
got replaced.

------
sp332
I think it helped that the dance video is pretty awesome :)

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jordanb
This reminds me of Charlie Chaplin's Nonsense song:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0daS_SDCT_U>

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patton01
There is a band called Fantomas that does something very similar. The voice is
more of an instrument that moves the listener through the music.

~~~
masklinn
Sigur Rós regularly does that, including all vocals on their 4th album "()":
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vonlenska#Vonlenska>

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siscia
Yeah English listen by an Italian sound exactly like that... (I am Italian).

Well, also other artist tried to do the same years early, but it was written.

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83457
Reminds me of hearing pop songs in Asian restaurants that sound like English
but I listen more closely and understand none of the words.

~~~
illicium
They may have been partly in English. Lots of K/J-Pop songs nowadays have
English hooks, or use loanwords.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Heeeeeeey sexy ladeh :p

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J_Darnley
I would have sworn that this would be the story of "We Drink Ritalin":
<http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/ritalin>

If I recall it correctly its writer was Japanese and the performer(s) were
Italian making for one rather unintelligible song.

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tagliala
Hi guys, you definitely got your revenge here: <http://youtu.be/9JhuOicPFZY>

:)

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ck2
It's amazing how entertaining that was without color or cgi.

