
Ask HN: Has iOS irrevocably fallen behind? - aditya42
There is no good place to ask this, since there are loyalists on both sides. I can only hope that Hacker News has enough sane-minded people who will answer this properly (if it gets upvoted enough to show up on the front-page, of course).<p>After watching the complete Google I/O keynote and WWDC '10 keynote, even I have to admit that Android (Froyo) has left iOS behind on features. Articles like [these][1] might say that Apple has given a solid reply, but I don't think they have. When I see features like Android's cloud-to-phone messaging APIs, I long for them to be in iOS. But then iOS 4 has nothing of this sort. Froyo also has APIs to make app data searchable, which iOS 4 doesn't for non-Apple apps. And these are just a few things that looking back at it now makes iOS 4 just seem so much weaker. Gingerbread will be out in October if I believe Engadget, and that will pull Android further away from iOS. People can talk about fragmentation — which will become less of an issue with Gingerbread, and the fact that users don't care about such features. But developers do. If Apple falls behind on features that developers want, the App Store numbers they like to tout to loudly will stop growing so rapidly.<p>To be honest, as a user, iOS 4 adds nothing that truly stands out as "THIS is why I must have the iPhone" except for Facetime and the Retina Display. Being a long time Apple loyalist and enthusiast, it both worries and saddens me to see Apple so blatantly miss the boat. So my question is, has Apple dropped the ball after a solid start and fallen behind so much that the trickle of developers will slowly become a full flow which they won't be able to stop?<p>[1]: www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/06/08/apples-ios-wwdc-strikes-back-after-googles-android-io/
======
TomOfTTB
As a developer I think you're obsessed with features. Whereas users don't
necessarily want those features. Apple's bet is that users will reject the
platform with more features in favor of the platform that works better.

Let's take your examples. When most people search their phone they're looking
for information in either mail, contacts, or SMS messages. They don't want the
data from the other hundred programs on their phone cluttering up the
important results from those areas. So in this case Apple's stance is actually
an advantage for the users.

On the cloud to device API it is nice but it's not like you can't accomplish
the same goal simply by polling. So while this is an area where android is
superior I don't think it's a feature that makes that much of a difference.

All that said the greatest argument against android winning because of
features is the fact that they've always had more features than iOS. I mean if
multitasking wasn't a big enough feature to woo users to android than I don't
think something like cloud to device messaging is going to do it.

~~~
Lewisham
"Apple's bet is that users will reject the platform with more features in
favor of the platform that works better."

For as long as Mac OS X 10.2 (that's when I jumped on board, so I can't
comment about the OS 9 days), this has been how Apple has operated.

Mac OS X is actually pretty feature devoid, out-of-the-box. First thing I have
to do when I get a new machine is install Google Search Box, Growl, Skitch,
MarcoPolo just so it feels like it works right. I don't count these as
applications; I think of them as base OS features. By laundry list of
features, Windows comes out on top.

What is different is that Mac OS X's UNIX underpinnings, coupled with a
thoughtful Cocoa API means that developers can fill in the gaps for power
users, whereas everyone else is happy with the experience they get. I'm not
sure if Apple's strategists really understand this, or if it is just the
engineers. You could be forgiven for thinking the UNIX core is just some
accident of history due to NeXT rather than any conscious effort.

iOS doesn't support extension like this, and it's deliberate and calculated.
The App Store is not there to protect normal users, it's there to protect
Apple. If you gave users the option of App Store apps and also the ability to
install unsigned apps (with appropriate scary warnings), all the people Apple
claims to be concerned about would function exactly as they do now,
downloading from the App Store and avoiding everything else. Why would they
need to do otherwise? Instead, we have an App Store that seems to be all about
sticking it to Google and maintaining some Disney-esque political landscape.
It's nothing like the Apple we used to know.

~~~
GrandMasterBirt
Its simple actually...

1) Apple was first-to-market. And I don't mean the iPhone. The iPod was when
apple just used a rocket booster to jump ahead of the game, and finally their
steam is running low.

\- The iPod was revolutionary. \- The iPod was never quite cloned "correctly"
there was more to the iPod than meets the eye. By the time Apple removed the
DRM restrictions it was too late for consumers, Apple had already made a dent
in the market which others could not recover from. \- When everyone finally
caught up to the iPod... poof there goes the iPhone again darting apple ahead
of the game. For at least 2 years before again anyone even came close. \- The
iPad is another attempt to do the same, but by now it did not dart them as far
as the iPhone did. The competition is now riding on unicorns and are hard to
out-meneuver.

2) Apple literally filled the void of the tech industry. The void was in
usability. It was simple, give users a very friendly UI, and lets do away with
core concepts we find important but most don't. I don't know how to explain
"files" to my grandfather. He asks me "will my programs be there when I leave
home with my laptop?" I tell him yes and no. You need an internet connection
because to him his "programs" are the websites he visits. He can't even grasp
the concept of moving files from hard disk to usb flash drive. To him "files"
are mythical unicorns. And I see this from many people, he is just the best
example. Apple is trying to cater to the audience of people who are completely
lost with computers by making computers behave like "real" objects are inside
them. The ipad is a great example because it makes things tangible. A child
can understand it.

The point at the end is this: Apple never had "features" they had "usability".
OSX is a great OS because it combines user friendliness with unix. That is why
developers love it. Hey I can't get over how awesome it is that uninstalling
an application is dragging it from applications to trash (just got a mac). And
to top it all off its quite easy to find all configurations and such for any
installed application. On top of it all I don't feel like I need to re-install
mac osx every 6 months like I had to with windows xp. AND to make it even
better their keyboard shortcuts are a perfect fit for a laptop keyboard
without having to resort to a lack of home/end/page up/page down keys. I swear
check out those 4 frequently used keys layout in ANY pc laptop. It is
insanity. Look at mac, the defaults are made so that you can use the say
layout/combinations everywhere, brilliant!

In the end apple is running out of steam. I think they will level out in a
year or two taking their place as the new Microsoft of the industry (which is
fine). I just wish macs were not so f-ing expensive. I mean I feel like I am
getting inappropriately touched by Steve Jobs every time I add more ram to my
order.

~~~
rikthevik
If you are paying Apple to add ram to your order, you certainly are being
touched inappropriately by Steve. It's not your imagination.

------
drawkbox
I'll say it again. Apple iOS and the platform is at least 5 years ahead of all
competitors.

Keep this in mind, noone has an answer for the iPod Touch or the iPad yet. The
iPod Touch outsells the PSP and nearly the DS in devices and in terms of
content sales via iTunes (games and entertainment, none come close).

The iPad is another gaming console in a way and a pretty cheap laptop
replacement. Not to mention the book market.

The iPad and iPod Touch make up over 65%+ devices sold by Apple and brings the
total iOS devices to over 100 million.

Other companies keep thinking this is a Phone only market. When in fact the
iPhone is only about 35-40% of Apple's devices that use the iOS and the
iTunes/Appstore platform.

Where is the response to that? How many years will it take others to
understand this. Apple is owning the mobile and handheld market and is making
a ploy for all entertainment devices not just phones. Apple has to love that
the competition looks past 65%+ of their market every new device.

The iPod Touch and iPad are the equivalent of Apple II's in schools and candy
cigarettes when it comes time for kids to grow up and buy a phone. All their
apps and games will be there waiting for them when they get one. This market
is about so much more than phones...

~~~
Tichy
Market share is not the same as technical quality. By that logic MS Windows is
also years ahead of it's competitors.

~~~
mcav
Most people consider Apple's products to be superior technically than
Microsoft's respective products.

~~~
brudgers
That explains Apple's share of the computer market perfectly.

~~~
mcav
That explains Apple's share of the iPod and iPod Touch markets perfectly.

Snark aside, most consumers don't know software and hardware well enough to
understand who has a superior product. They know that they click on the blue E
to get to the internet. That's it.

~~~
w1ntermute
By that logic, they also "know" that if they want a smartphone, they should
buy an iPhone, and if they want a tablet, they should buy an iPad.

~~~
moe
I'd argue that most people know that an iPhone or iPad will buy them the best
experience currently available in their respective markets.

But they also know the figure on their weekly paycheck. And as the difference
in user experience between iPhone/Android is narrowing, many[1] seem opt for
second-best at half the price.

[1] [http://moconews.net/article/419-android-sales-exceed-
iphone-...](http://moconews.net/article/419-android-sales-exceed-iphone-but-
not-blackberry-in-q1/)

------
yurisagalov
I'm not particularly an Apple fan boy, but I do admire their design decisions.
Apple has an _uncanny_ ability to take a block of marble (a set of features
for a phone) and grind away at it until what's left is a minimally complete
set of features that are (in general) perfect.

I was definitely the first to gripe and complain when the iPhone didn't have
cut and paste, but I'll also be the first to admit that they _did_ get it
right when they finally released it.

I was also one of the many loud voices complaining that I couldn't run
backgrounded apps, but when you look at the HTC phones coming out right now
running Android and full backgrounding, and you hear the stories of how the
battery runs out by the early afternoon, you start to realize that, it is
true, "it is easy to add <feature x>, but it is hard to get it right" (or
whatever it was that jobs said in his announcements)

I'm not saying that the features in Android aren't impressive, they very well
may be, but Apple's design decisions don't just go after "impressive", they
try to go after "perfect", and sometimes getting features perfect means
cutting them until you're ready

Your entire post is targetted as "features that developers want" and you're
right, you need a healthy ecosystem of developers, and Google is certainly
building one. However, you also need a healthy ecosystem of consumers who love
the product, and at the end of the day, I really think most developers will go
to the platform where they can reach the widest audience. Apple cares about
their consumers first, and their developers second (and sometimes it feels
like second last), but it seems to work for them...

edit: of course, sometimes apple's PR doesn't respond to consumers as best as
it could (i.e. the "you're holding it wrong"), but I'm trying to focus on
design/product decisions

~~~
srbloom
"However, you also need a healthy ecosystem of consumers who love the product,
and at the end of the day, I really think most developers will go to the
platform where they can reach the widest audience."

This is exactly what I was thinking. It is an interesting question- do
consumers follow developers or do developers follow consumers? It seems that
those agreeing with the OP would argue the former while those disagreeing
would argue the latter.

~~~
steadicat
Unix has developers but no consumers. Android is the same. The iPhone was a
huge success before it got any developers. The Wii had very few games on
launch compared to competing platforms. And the recent resurgence of the Mac
seems to have been led by consumers. There were not that many Mac apps in 1998
when the iMac came out.

History seems to suggest that developers (especially those who want to get
paid) go where the consumers are.

The only exception is, perhaps, DOS/Windows? I'm not sure I remember the
history right though. It could be that consumers switched to Windows because
of the cheaper hardware, and developers followed.

~~~
enjo
Android has no customers? Seriously? There are thousands of Android devices
shipping every day. I still see no way that this doesn't end with Android in a
(far and away) market dominant position. They're already well on their way.

~~~
gamble
Do Android users buy even a tenth of the apps that iOS users do? If simply
having the greatest number of handsets in circulation supporting a particular
platform equalled victory, Java-based feature phones or Symbian handsets would
have trounced the iPhone years ago.

~~~
moe
_Do Android users buy even a tenth of the apps that iOS users do?_

Probably not yet.

I'd blame this mostly on the low number of "killer" apps in the android
market. Many good apps have arrived, but the number is nowhere near the
appstore, yet.

Here's the kicker, though: This will inevitably change. It _is_ already
changing. When you compare the android market today versus a few months ago
then you'll notice quite a number of high-profile apps have appeared.

As a developer you can't ignore android anymore. You're not building an iPhone
app nowadays, you're building an iPhone app _and_ an android app.

And it won't be long before the priorities reverse.

Once android devices outnumber iPhones by 10:1 the question will be whether
you build an iPhone app along with your Android app - not the other way round.

Remember Apple is at its absolute peak today. There's nowhere to go from here
in terms of features or polish.

Sure, they can add voice recognition, brush up the hardware even more and
perhaps they'll even find another killer-feature or two to add. But HTC and
Google are breathing in their neck now, the gap in user experience is closing.
From there the primary differentiating factor becomes price. And competing
with HTC on price will be tough[1].

[1] [http://moconews.net/article/419-android-sales-exceed-
iphone-...](http://moconews.net/article/419-android-sales-exceed-iphone-but-
not-blackberry-in-q1/)

~~~
jodrellblank
_Remember Apple is at its absolute peak today. There's nowhere to go from here
in terms of features or polish. Sure, they can add voice recognition, brush up
the hardware even more and perhaps they'll even find another killer-feature or
two to add._

There's nowhere to go in features or polish unless they add more features or
polish more - what kind of argument is that?

 _From there the primary differentiating factor becomes price._

Because Apple have always been driven out of markets by competitors with lower
prices...

~~~
moe
_There's nowhere to go in features or polish unless they add more features or
polish more - what kind of argument is that?_

I meant to say that they're about to hit a wall with that. What do you think
they could add or change to prevent android from catching up?

 _Because Apple have always been driven out of markets by competitors with
lower prices..._

Depends on your definition of "driven out". They have about 10% of the desktop
market - which may be considered "driven out" by some.

------
angrycoder
Go tell your mom about the new features that Froyo has. Watch her eyes glaze
over as you talk about "cloud-to-phone messaging APIs" and "APIs to make app
data searchable".

Now show her the iphone 4 retina display.

~~~
orangecat
_Now show her the iphone 4 retina display._

The Droid has been shipping for 8 months with a 265 ppi display; funny how
that was a meaningless spec that only geeks care about until recently.

~~~
pedalpete
But that is part of the very intelligent marketing of Apple. Your mom doesn't
understand what 265 ppi is. Retina Display is the clearest display your eye
can see. That she understands.

------
pedalpete
As an unabashed Apple hater who thinks the company is little more than hype
and marketing, I have to say strongly NO, iOS has not fallen behind the other
OSs.

You point to Android specifically, but I don't think anything you've mentioned
is a selling point on the device/os specifically.

is 'cloud-to-phone messaging api' really something that a customer is going to
be looking at when comparing devices? And if so, is it actually a feature that
can't be replicated in any OS quite simply?

I think the market share challenges in the mobile space are less about OS
feature capabilities like you describe than the more basic requirements like
battery life, screen quality, design and brand perception.

Using your cloud-to-phone example again, is this really that much different
from app notifications in iPhone (I'm pretty sure that is in the api). You say
it's the features that developers want, but developers need to focus on the
needs of consumers, rather than just what's the geekiest thing I can build.

If Apple is falling behind anywhere, I suspect it is in the UI design, which I
don't find particularly compelling. It does a decent job of getting out of the
way, and it is nicer than blackberry, but it very quickly seemed to have gone
from cutting edge to ho-hum. I don't look at an iphone and think that it is
beautiful and easy to use. The home screen with all the buttons and no way of
organizing them seems clutter, and the grid is bland without any character.

~~~
chc
Just a small correction: Apple actually has introduced the ability to organize
your apps in iOS 4. Nothing revolutionary, basically just folders, but it is
something.

------
bonaldi
1\. That I/O keynote was something else in terms of mindshare. Before, Android
was an ugly also-ran where devs were making a tenth of the income they made on
iOS. After, Android was still ugly and making a tenth of the income for devs,
but was transformed into an inevitable iPhone-killer. The facts were the same.
If you bash Apple for hype, take Vic with a pinch of salt.

2\. iOS 4 is packed with features for devs. Some of the new APIs and block-
based animations have taken hundreds of lines of code out of my apps. Doing
common tasks like throwing a new view on the screen are massively simpler
compared to doing the same on Android.

3\. Feature comparisons impressed IT managers in 1989 as they sat choosing
between Word and WordPerfect from a list in Byte. Users don't care; they want
things that work. They didn't care that the iPod didn't have wireless or as
much space as a Nomad, and they still don't.

4\. Seriously, features don't factor into it. For 8 years companies were
trying to best the iPod by ladling in features, and each time the market told
them to go zune eggs.

5\. The phone companies are absolutely destroying Android. They're still
launching devices with hacked-up versions of 1.6, with no promise of when
Froyo will ever make it on there -- that is if the carriers decide to allow
it. Imagine if Microsoft had been launching XP but Dell decided it would keep
on shipping Win 98, and AOL wouldn't let users even upgrade to Win 2000.
Ludicrous.

------
albertzeyer
Don't use words like "irrevocably". They kind of tag your post as FUD. (Along
as statements like "being a long time Apple loyalist... it saddens me...".)
And, why do you really think something like this should be irrevocably? How
can it be?

Then, when I read the title, I just thought 'wtf'? Behind? So I read your post
because I was curious about what you mean. Again, I even more wonder what you
mean by irrevocably. And how those few missing APIs should be the reason that
iOS is behind Android.

~~~
aditya42
Blame that on the time I posted the question (2 in the morning). But it's not
FUD. This was just a question, not a statement. By irrevocably, I had a deeper
meaning:

Android is shooting for share, and they will get it eventually, because of the
number of devices it ships on. Once they have that, most (if not all)
developers will follow. Missing APIs can be added, but users are hard to
convert back — Apple and we know this from the PC vs. Mac days. My question
was, has this shift already been set in motion fast enough that Apple will not
be able to catch up.

(Of course, tech news on the Internet is very US centric, but those of us who
are outside the US can see how non-existent Android is here. I haven't been
able to factor in the whole "Android for world domination" theory just yet.)

------
alanh
> _When I see features like Android's cloud-to-phone messaging APIs, I long
> for them to be in iOS. But then iOS 4 has nothing of this sort._

Isn’t that exactly what push notifications are? Apps like Notifo, and Boxcar
for that matter, allow you to implement push notifications for anything (c.f.
Github integration) without even a dedicated iPhone app.

> _users don't care about [fragmentation]._

While Joe Consumer may not grok fragmentation, it definitely impacts his
experience. E.g. the official Twitter app not being available on Droid or the
Incredible, last I heard.

I don’t see Apple as missing the boat so much as taking their time to do
things right. Just like copy-paste and multitasking. Patience for the polish,
or yeah, go to Android.

To answer your question, iPhone will, yes, always lack features Android has,
for the foreseeable future, but the experience is smoother and more
consistent. Strictly in this sense, it it Android that will never catch up.

(This is pretty much what Gruber has been saying:
[http://www.macworld.com/article/151235/2010/05/apple_rolls.h...](http://www.macworld.com/article/151235/2010/05/apple_rolls.html))

~~~
stanleydrew
Am I the only one who absolutely prefers Android's copy/paste to the iPhone's?

~~~
masklinn
Could you explain how/why you do? I just can't get how you could prefer
Android's three-taps-deep switch to text selection mode (for non-editable
text), and the text range selection seems so damn imprecise.

------
drewcrawford
> After watching the complete Google I/O keynote and WWDC '10 keynote

I was at WWDC. There are a lot of things I saw there that I'm not supposed to
talk about. Suffice it to say that the cool stuff was NOT in the keynote.

I came out of WWDC thinking that Google may very well never catch up. They
don't seem to care about Android like Apple cares about the iPhone. Apple
cares enough about the iPhone to learn how to do cloud services (see Push) and
advertising (see iAd) better than Google, things that Apple has no experience
doing well. But Google doesn't care about Android enough to invest into build
quality or UI, things that Apple does well.

~~~
dieterrams
> But Google doesn't care about Android enough to invest into build quality or
> UI, things that Apple does well.

Build quality, probably not, especially since Google doesn't really do
hardware. But it's been widely reported that they're making a big UI push. I
expect them to do well on usability: they've got the talent to catch up to
Apple on that. Aesthetics are another matter, however.

~~~
wallflower
If Google cared about UI, they would buy Phonegap or Titanium. Overnight that
would release developers from the unholy mixture of Java and XML and free up
the development platform to millions of web developers.

~~~
honopu
you sure? I've taken an armchair perspective at google overall, and they seem
to be moving toward things that "look better"...

They can afford good UI and to think they don't understand the value(if it
does exist) would be incredibly naive.

------
mikecane
You don't know what Apple is working on. Nor do you know if any of those
Android features will work properly or will be "all that." This is just the
typical hopscotching that happens all the time in the industry. In a few
months, you might be doing a post about webOS vs Android vs iOS. Buy something
and just enjoy it.

------
GiraffeNecktie
As much as I dislike Apple as a company and love the idea of the Android, I
think Apple has totally nailed the concept of the handheld as a sweet and sexy
little unit that the average person can take great pleasure in using. It's got
very little to do with "features" and everything to do with the experience. So
yeah, Android might have features that make the average geek go weak at the
knees but Google, at least so far, hasn't shown the ability to get past the
engineering and into the joy of the interface. I'm hoping that Gingerbread
will get there, but it takes a supreme focus to do good UI. Apple's got it,
Google needs to get it.

------
OoTheNigerian
I do not think that iOS' weakness versus Android would be based on its quality
But on reach. The iPhone is on a single form of Phone while Android is
available on various forms of phones.

Android will be to Phones what Windows is to PCs (personal computers).

Its added advantage is Google is more open than Microsoft will ever be.

One more thing, Android competes favorable with iOS. Much better that Windows
does with OSX

------
slashclee
Are you joking? The iPhone has been behind on "features" since before the G1
even came out.

Let's roll back the clock, shall we? When the first iPhone came out, the OS
didn't have support for copy/paste, or MMS, or video recording, or any way to
install third-party applications, or a whole ton of Bluetooth devices, or a
dozen other random things that everybody claimed were totally necessary.

It is absolutely not the case that iOS had a huge head start and Android has
just now caught up (from a feature perspective). Android has been banging the
"We have more features!" drum since before the G1 even launched. But here's
the thing: even with all those awesome features, the Android software is still
nowhere near as well-designed as iOS or the apps that ship with it.

------
drivingmenuts
It doesn't matter - iOS and Android both have features that will require at
least 5 years for the mass of consumers to catch onto. Most people still want
to make calls, check their email, surf the web and play a game on their phone.

So, as long as phones can do that, anything extra is developer wankery.

------
ErrantX
_If Apple falls behind on features that developers want, the App Store numbers
they like to tout to loudly will stop growing so rapidly._

Highly unlikely; unless they lose their consumer market too.

Because, at the end of the day, developers will jump through a few hoops (and
rightfully gripe) to sell to the biggest user base.

~~~
codingthewheel
Not once they realize how hard it actually is to make any money on the
platform.

[http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/06/full-
an...](http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/06/full-analysis-of-
iphone-economics-its-bad-news-and-then-it-gets-worse.html)

~~~
glhaynes
Is not the story worse on every other mobile platform?

------
gord
I'm moving from native iPhone to web apps for mobile. The tools will catch up
to flash rapidly. The browsers will kick themselves into line, so its viable
to have one code base. But most of all... Javascript is just less verbose than
Objective-C, and you go straight to market, bypassing appstore/signing
madness.

I don't think its iOS4 specific, once you have geo-location + offline +
appdata + GPU graphics you've got the killer features you need, so why go
native?

WebGL will happen, theyll have to support it & its easy to do so. Now I guess
you might want to do AI in-game as the device gets more powerful, and write
effects shaders for rich games.. But a lot of that can be deferred to server-
side, so I think even for 3D games it will soon make more sense to go web app.

What apple have is slickness and consistency... but I think the slickness of
web on Android will approach that asymptotically. The web dev platform is more
scaleable, less pain, and wont go away.

What is missing is a good appstore + billing system for web apps [and google
will probably be there in a year]. I think it needs to support a SaaS model
where I rent a group of apps at a discount on a yearly basis. That way you
have people invest more effort over time, innovate, and reach beyond the iFart
apps.

------
jsz0
There's good arguments to be made both ways but you're doing a lot of
speculation/editorializing about the future instead of addressing more
specific examples of how you think iOS is falling behind in a more concrete
way. I don't think that's a good approach to get substantive opinions. Besides
this cloud-to-device feature, which sounds a lot like Apple's Push
notifications to me, can you cite a few more examples? You mention Gingerbread
is going to address fragmentation but Google has stated <2.2 will remain in
use for lower end/legacy devices. How does that solve fragmentation anytime
soon? If Gingerbread is coming out in October there is a pretty good chance
50% (at least) of Android devices won't even have 2.2 by then.

------
jarsj
"To be honest, as a user, iOS 4 adds nothing that truly stands out as "THIS is
why I must have the iPhone" except for Facetime and the Retina Display."

I am confused. You started your post as a developer and end being an user.

There are some big things in iOS4. Multitasking (done properly), iAds, Game
Center and 1500 New APIs and tonnes of improvements that apple has put in
after taking experiences of millions apps created by thousands of developers.
And That's HUGE.

------
lleger
I think the important thing is that Apple doesn't include features for the
purpose of having them. It's frivolous to have a feature that doesn't work
properly or can't effectively be leveraged by developers. Apple patiently
fleshes out everything before it's publicly released. So while Android's OS
might technically be more advanced than iOS, in practicality and
implementation iOS is the best mobile platform. For example, look at the front
facing camera. iPhone 4 wasn't the first to have a front facing camera, but it
was the first to have one that simply works — and that's what consumers want.

So, to answer your question, no: iOS hasn't irrevocably fallen behind. Has it
fallen behind, technically? Yeah, probably. Irrevocably so? No.

------
zokier
Nothing is irrevocable. This reminds me of the people telling
"AMD/Intel/nVidia is doomed" when competitor happens to release a bit better
product. AMD did manage to get a profitable quarter after being unprofitable
for many many years.

------
cageface
Apple does better frontend. Google does better backend. It will be interesting
to see which makes the difference. The transparent, sync-free integration with
Google services is the main reason I prefer my Android phone but if Apple
steps it up with Mobile Me and bundles it with the phone they might be able to
catch up.

My hunch is that Google will have an easier time staying close enough on the
UI front than Apple will catching up on services but we'll see. Lawsuits might
make the difference.

------
fleitz
Probably, but also BaseCamp has fallen incredibly behind MS Project in terms
of features. Apple doesn't compete on features they compete on profit margin.
When Google has something that will convince people to stop paying Apple's
margins then I'd start worrying about iPhone's viability as a platform.

If you want to develop on a platform where people are willing to pay premium
prices for premium products then you have nothing to worry about with Froyo.

~~~
codingthewheel
What platform are you talking about? The App Store is one of the (by the
numbers) worst places to actually try to make real money as a developer.
Average app price, by the numbers: around $1.90. Average sales $ per annum:
around 3K. Half of all devs will earn less than $700 per year.

The App Store is in a bubble and that bubble will burst, not because the App
Store is evil, but because it's in the nature of bubbles to burst.

You'd literally have gotten better traction developing ActiveX controls for
IE5, back in the day.

~~~
matwood
You keep saying this like it's news. Any platform, and not just mobile, is
going to end up with winners and a long tail of losers or those that are not
as successful. The current iPhone sdk and app store gives the lone developer a
decent chance at making something that is successful though.

~~~
biafra
But only if they are not competing with current or future unknown products of
Apple. Or if they disobey some other of Apples (un-)written rules.

The problem here is not the AppStore, the problem is that developers have to
distribute their apps through it.

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tlrobinson
Us nerds care about obscure nifty features, but 99% of people don't.

In fact, I think in some ways iOS 4 is a step backwards, in that it adds half
baked "features" like folders and the multitasking UI (my gripe is with the UI
only). They aren't nearly as well thought out as the rest of the OS.

Android does have some well implemented features which I like though,
specifically Facebook integration with the address book, etc.

~~~
zygen
What makes the folders/multitasking UI less well thought out? I don't have
anything that can run iOS 4 yet, so I haven't tried them out.

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wglb
So I am wondering why you would particularly care, unless you are just an
observer.

If you are a developer, you want to ask 1) is it programmable 2) is there a
market for something that I create.

It seems that the answer is yes for both of these.

Bullet points are for bystanders.

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joeynelson
I just wish Apple would fix this: <http://jnjnjn.com/161/ipad-volume-
indicator/>

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ww520
"Perfection is achieved by nothing else to remove, not adding more."

------
natch
When did Froyo become available?

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ashr
yes

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c00p3r
Apple already won consumer mobile market, while Google with its Android will
dominate emerging so-called enterprise one.

If you want to write some module or extention for your corporate system for
mobile devices - Android is the obvious choice.

The history repeats itself, Google will be to Apple what Redhat was to Sun,
Data General, SCO, and other now dead UNIX vendors. It just a matter of a
time.

~~~
zygen
I thought RIM was the obvious choice for enterprise, though.

~~~
c00p3r
There are a lot of life outside US.. ^_^

------
napierzaza
The store is a selling point for users. That's the one unique thing that's not
going to be written off by people (like design). It can change, Google might
start getting decent quality apps. But so long as the users are there, and
developers can make money, I see no reason for either the user or the
developer to leave.

Yes, there is intense competition now and each player has to keep up with its
OS features. We'll see who can keep their OS up to date with features that are
important enough.

