
The gig economy of the 18th Century - happy-go-lucky
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170721-the-gig-economy-of-the-18th-century
======
albertgoeswoof
The worker protections we have that the gig economy strips employees of are
actually really important.

The protections we have in place e.g. 40 hours work week, time off (4+
weeks/year in developed countries), termination periods, redundancy pay etc
enable a market place where individuals employees can compete fairly with one
another. Without these restrictions we open up a fast race to the bottom,
where only those who are willing to work multiple jobs (gigs), extreme working
hours at minimal pay can compete (see freelance websites and other "gig"
platforms for examples).

The gig economy allows some unique companies (e.g. Uber, Deliveroo) to operate
right now when they are backed with massive VC funds and operate at a loss -
but we can't all expect to have a personal driver + food on delivery every
day, without either seeing massive technology efficiency gains (which aren't
there yet, e.g. drone delivery, self driving cars etc.) or alternatively we
deregulate and push some people into poverty (gig economy).

~~~
conanbatt
I don't subscribe at all to the race to the bottom concept honestly.

It is senseless to believe that it is worker regulations that isn't grinding
workers. When someone wants to work more than what they 40 hour work week
offers, he would go into contracting and work a lot more. Our society is
filled with people choosing to work more, and no-one is richer by forcing
those people to work less.

Not only that, the race to the bottom you mention would not dock pay as much
as you think. In fact, it would increase riches. This is related to the
classical problem of confounding money with value.

Lets say you work 40 hours a week and make 1 fork an hour, and get paid 1
dollar for it. A contractor shows up and he makes 1 fork an hour and works 60
hours a week. The new influx of 60 forks will drop the price of forks, and
hence you will be paid less per fork you produce: but the entire system now
has 100 forks. You will be paid less but you can buy more forks with the
lesser pay. In a real world example, you would lose money, because your entire
income is devoted to forks but not your expenditures: but this effect happens
with almost anything that is produceds and requires labor. So basically
advocating for the restrictions in name of pay, is advocating for higher
nominal salaries for less goods.

~~~
njarboe
The people at the top competing companies seem to end up conspiring to
suppress wages even when it is illegal and their companies ROI and profits are
the highest of any other companies on earth.[1] Adobe, Intel, Google, and
Apple were convicted (edit:actually, just paid money to prevent a trial)
mainly on the fact that Jobs, Schmidt, and Otellini actually sent emails to
each other discussing it that were revealed in discovery. I can imagine wink-
wink agreements that would be far harder to successfully prosecute and thus
never (edit: threatened to be) brought to trial.

[1][https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/13/7542371/apple-google-
inte...](https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/13/7542371/apple-google-intel-adobe-
settlement-poaching-lawsuit)

~~~
conanbatt
Are you suggesting that workers should get together and conspire in return?

~~~
notfromhere
That's what unions do, since companies have disproportionate power in
negotiations

~~~
conanbatt
Im implying that two wrongs dont make a right.

------
henrik_w
Some people argue that software development will move more and more to a gig
model. In some cases it may make sense, but in many cases it doesn't. Mostly
because of the knowledge you build up about the product and because software
is never "finished".

[https://henrikwarne.com/2017/01/22/software-development-
and-...](https://henrikwarne.com/2017/01/22/software-development-and-the-gig-
economy/)

~~~
dalbasal
One of the more interesting and accessible modern economists (published int he
30s, died recently) is Ronald Coase.

A few years ago (before his death) he interviewed on econtalk where he
complained about economics teaching "Coase theorem" with the exact opposite
conclusions to the ones he intended. I was taught "coase theorem" so I went
back and read his old papers.

His perspective is all about examining transaction costs. He starts with
absurdities, that exist but shouldn't given standard economics. If free
markets and incentives are so important to economies, why don't they exist in
companies. Companies are centralized bureaucratic organizations. Incentives
are highly distorted and the structure is non dynamic. No internal exposure to
"market" results, no competition, no creative destruction.

Why don't contracts and dynamism yield an emergent company-like-thing where
individuals contract with eachother? His answer is transaction costs, and the
friction inherent in free market transactions.

A side effect of the theory is that there is a tremendous amount of potential
wealth lost to inefficiency and transaction costs.

~~~
arethuza
Charles Koch has a management theory called "Market-Based Management" that
claims to run the internals of organisations as markets with internal
competition:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market-
Based_Management_Instit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market-
Based_Management_Institute)

[NB I'm in the middle of reading "Dark Money" so don't take this as a positive
recommendation.]

~~~
ryandvm
You might be interested in his recent interview on Freakonomics:

[http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-hate-koch-brothers-
part-...](http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-hate-koch-brothers-part-1/)

~~~
clutchdude
Just finished it. Much like Koch would say, I walked away with some good
things and bad things.

I agreed with the ability to not shackle workers with arbitrary social crimes
but, in the end, fell flat.

It seemed like there is no stance too severe that will cause the Koch brothers
to not work with you if you support less regulation and restrictions on trade
and production.

I had hoped that the podcast would bring up the idea that maybe there is a
higher cost being incurred by their activities and relate it to tragedy of the
commons. I assume Koch would have dismissed it as speculation and that you
can't pin their work to causing environmental damage.

------
dalbasal
I really think we need pro-labour political voices to take a different view on
Gig economy jobs.

I realize that most activists and politicians see this as part of the
"contractor problem." IE many worker rights and protections are built into the
permanent employee structure. They see employers shifting work from this
structure to less protected structures, like contracting.

I think this is a narrow view. Other employment structures have benefits too.
The gig economy is not going to replace the majority of work. It's a segment,
like day labour, casual shiftwork, etc.

There are features to the gig economy that benefit different people. For some
people, the low barriers to entry, no gatekeeping, no committment features of
these gigs are valuable.

There is no reason not to legislate worker protection laws to cover these
jobs, as they are. Currently, most pro-labour voices talking about legislation
seem to be trying to effectively ban it, and force more conventional labour
structures instead. I think this is misguided.

~~~
kasey_junk
For many people not having set hours is a tremendous boon. Something I don't
think nearly enough people are aware of is the all night daycare. Its a
feature of many lower income neighborhoods that is fairly unheard of
elsewhere. If the parent gigging means that kids don't have to spend the night
away from home, I'd say thats something to be encouraged.

TLDR - couldn't agree more. Lets find ways to provide worker protections for
the next labor market not the last one.

~~~
maxxxxx
You just need flexible and predictable working hours for the benefits you are
describing. There is no need for gigging.

~~~
kasey_junk
Of course, but thats not what the pre-gig market was providing, especially at
the lower income space.

~~~
maxxxxx
I doubt the gig economy will provide that either.

~~~
kasey_junk
If the gig economy does not provide for self control of hours then I'd say the
central pillar of the gig economy's value proposition to labor is gone and at
that point it needs to be readdressed.

To date, thats literally the way people are attracted into the gig labor force
and is central to what it means to be gigging.

~~~
maxxxxx
The control is only there if people have a fallback to making money another
way. Once they become more dependent on gigging they will have to do whatever
they are told to do. They are easily replaceable cogs that have no market
power.

~~~
kasey_junk
Lets say I agreed with you. In what way is that worse than the non-gigging
market? If I take a job at a Gap, I am an easily replaceable cog with no
market power, I'm dependent on that job and have to do what I'm told, but I
can't set my own hours. _Regular shifts_ are virtually non-existent in most
low income jobs today. Gigging as it currently exists improves on that.

~~~
maxxxxx
"Regular shifts are virtually non-existent in most low income jobs today. "

This is a really bad trend that gigging will even accelerate.

------
madaxe_again
A more apt term than "gig economy" would be "crumb pecking" \- as in "pecking
at the crumbs that fall from the luxuriant table of the plutocracy".

How governments can be enthusiastically cheering on a return to pre-
industrialisation labour practices is beyond me - unless they have a vested
interest in doing so, or are doing their damnedest to mollify an increasingly
agitated populace while toeing the line their donors and lobbyists demand.
Trump & Brexit are both symptoms of the increasingly widespread anger and
despair, and if nothing fundamental changes (UBI?), a descent into a
totalitarian/terrorist (where the terrorist is anyone who opposes unfettered
state power) dichotomy is inevitable.

You already see the rhetoric in the press - traitors, saboteurs, etc. - and
the political and economical landscapes are inseparable, despite what many
wishful thinkers believe.

~~~
RobertoG
"How governments can be enthusiastically cheering on a return to pre-
industrialisation labour practices is beyond me [..]"

This is only surprising if you think of the system as a happy place where
everything is automatically optimal.

For me the reason is obvious if you accept the old (and now unfashionable)
idea that there is an ongoing conflict between capital and labour for who keep
the profits.

Government is the rope that those forces are pulling in order to get their
goals and, it seems, one is pulling stronger than the other now.

I watched this interesting interview(1) where the interviewed (around 6
minutes) mention how the view of the system as an ideal system (as something
apolitical) without conflict appeared.

(1) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTDei-
dAKW8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTDei-dAKW8)

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Government is the rope that those forces are pulling in order to get their
> goals and, it seems, one is pulling stronger than the other now._

This is a very insightful metaphor. I haven't seen it before. Thanks!

------
Mz
I do freelance work. I don't think Gig Work needs to be a race to the bottom
at all. I have a serious medical condition. Gig Work has been a better answer
for me than a regular job. The short version is that I can take off as much
time as I need to when my health requires it without living in fear of losing
my job.

Yes, there are problems with it. I certainly wish I had more money and more
stability. But the real root cause of my instability is my medical situation.
Freelance work has been a far better answer for me than regular employment.

There are a lot of people who have many other things on their plate beyond
just trying to make a living. From parents of small children to parents of
special needs kids to people with a sick relative or people going to college,
there are a great many reasons why one might need to arrange for life to
revolve around some other priority and have _earning income_ take a back seat
to that. Our expectation of a serious career actually is very problematic for
such people.

Historically, the family was the organizing them for most of the world. This
is become less true. Families have a lot of flexibility that full time jobs
typically lack. If the family is no longer going to be the primary way that
people are taken care of, then work needs to become more flexible.

I don't think it _has to be_ a race to the bottom. We can intentionally design
gig work so that it is not. I think this is the key to not only maintaining
the high quality of life we expect, but improving it.

------
em3rgent0rdr
The gig economy has been getting a lot of criticism by politicians who are
fixated on "jobs" or who complain about the lack of "protections". But the gig
economy is a very efficient way to allocate resources in a dynamic
environment. The fact that the gig economy was widespread hundreds of years
ago and today lends credence to its utility.

~~~
ThomPete
The problem is that effective allocating of resources might benefit society
but not the individual.

~~~
dmurray
Then politicians should encourage it. The entire reason to have government is
to improve society at some cost to individuals.

~~~
sattoshi
Hello there Stalin!

Jokes aside, we should throw away the fundemental luxeries of western
civilization for the future. We can compromise on them but not to the degree
of going back a century or two.

~~~
sattoshi
Should not* throw away

------
mr_tristan
It's hard for me to get a bead on how skilled any prior patterns of work were,
though. It seems like there is an increasing skills gap, and that the gig
economy just caters to less skilled work. And the prior examples mentioned in
the article all struck me as unskilled.

So, was there any prior pattern of using highly skilled labor in any kind of
flexible "gig" system?

------
leggomylibro
If you're interested in this sort of thing, you might take a look at the work
of Thomas Mayhew:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20080923195808/http://etext.lib.v...](http://web.archive.org/web/20080923195808/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu:80/toc/modeng/public/MayLond.html)

He catalogued the work done by the poor in the early 19th century extensively,
and I do mean EXTENSIVELY. He gathered details not only of the types of 'gigs'
being performed, but the specific costs and potential profits involved. He was
actually trying to estimate how much these London hustles were contributing to
the broader economy at the scale of hundreds of thousands of people.

It's a little dull, racist, and sexist, but the subject matter is fastidiously
catalogued.

Some examples:

Of Oyster Selling In The Streets:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20021129180421/http://etext.lib.v...](http://web.archive.org/web/20021129180421/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu:80/etcbin/toccer-
new2?id=MayLond.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=60&division=div2)

Of Roasted Chestnuts And Almonds:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20021129184309/http://etext.lib.v...](http://web.archive.org/web/20021129184309/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu:80/etcbin/toccer-
new2?id=MayLond.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=71&division=div2)

Of The Cries, Rounds, And Days Of Costermongers:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20021129180440/http://etext.lib.v...](http://web.archive.org/web/20021129180440/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu:80/etcbin/toccer-
new2?id=MayLond.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=42&division=div2)

Of Coffee-Stall Keepers: (I learned about 'saloop' from this one)

[http://web.archive.org/web/20021129180034/http://etext.lib.v...](http://web.archive.org/web/20021129180034/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu:80/etcbin/toccer-
new2?id=MayLond.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=135&division=div2)

And of course, Of Street Piemen:

[http://web.archive.org/web/20030127022056/http://etext.lib.v...](http://web.archive.org/web/20030127022056/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu:80/etcbin/toccer-
new2?id=MayLond.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=146&division=div2)

