
Did President Obama just order the government to study video game violence? - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/01/did-president-obama-just-order-the-government-to-study-video-game-violence/
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alwaysinshade
As someone who loves playing violent/FPS games, I'd say he's being reasonable.
From the article:

In the more than 3,000 words President Obama and Vice President Joe Biden
uttered during their nationally televised address today, only 16 dealt with
video games in any way. Here are those words, highlighted in the context of
the speech:

And while year after year, those who oppose even modest gun safety measures
have threatened to de-fund scientific or medical research into the causes of
gun violence, I will direct the Centers for Disease Control to go ahead and
study the best ways to reduce it. And Congress should fund research into the
effects that violent video games have on young minds. We don’t benefit from
ignorance. We don’t benefit from not knowing the science of this epidemic of
violence.

This section of the speech refers to the fourteenth of 23 proposed executive
actions Obama introduced today, regarding an "end [to] the freeze on gun
violence research."

~~~
mindstab
I feel like this joke quote provides some wider context

"Scientists baffled by Canadians' ability to watch movies, play video games
and not shoot each other"

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jsz0
It's definitely worth studying. I'm not sure I've seen any real data on the
subject. Just lots of extreme opinions from people convinced they do cause
violence and those who believe they do not. Chances are the truth is somewhere
in the middle. My guess is they will conclude there are certain individuals
with existing psychological problems who are very influenced by video game
violence. If they can be identified it may be possible to educate parents
about the risks. Are there any doctors who are even looking for this type of
thing now? Does a doctor ever suggest to parents they should limit exposure to
violent video games/entertainment because their child happens to be in a high
risk group? Maybe they do I honestly don't know.

~~~
dolphins
There was a lot of experimental psychology research in the last fifteen years
or so in this field. It generally concluded that exposure increased some
measured antisocial behaviors and decreased some prosocial behaviors, but
whether that translates into actual aggression against others is unclear.

A longitudinal study following about 1500 children for three years was
recently published that claims "sustained violent video game play was
significantly related to steeper increases in adolescents' trajectory of
aggressive behavior over time."[1] Again, whether this translates into real
world violence is unclear.

[1]Willoughby, T., Adachi, P. C., & Good, M. (2012). A longitudinal study of
the association between violent video game play and aggression among
adolescents. Developmental Psychology, 48(4), 1044-1057. doi:10.1037/a0026046

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MartinCron
I love video games, both violent and non-violent. I'm not afraid of having
rigorous scientific study of any links between video game violence and real
violence.

Related: if violence in the real world were caused by popular media, wouldn't
we have seen a spike in archery attacks last year? Between Brave and the
Hunger Games and the Avengers and Skyrim, bows were _everywhere_.

~~~
taligent
> wouldn't we have seen a spike in archery attacks last year?

But there has been an increase in people taking up archery.

You seem to be missing the point though. People who commit mass killings are
trying to kill as many people as possible before they are caught. Bows are
ill-suited for this purpose.

~~~
cheald
Anecdotally, there _has_ been an increase in people taking up archery. I know
several friends who have gotten into it primarily because of The Hunger Games'
glorification of it.

Google seems to suggest an increase in interest, as well:
<http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=archery>

~~~
jclos
I remember reading (although I can't seem to find the reference) that there
was an increase in med schools registrations when the tv show House began. If
there is such an influence is there a way to use it for good purposes, like
funding games and tv shows that could raise interest in issues, while still
being actual games and tv shows that are worth playing and watching?

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chromaticorb
Thanks for Obama for exhuming the world's most boring debate. Again, evidence
will appear inconclusive and even if it does or does not have a warping effect
on children, there is already a good regulatory body in check for age
classifications.

It is very easy to blame these things, but finding out how parents can be
better educated and supported in communicating and dealing with problem
children (which does include not buying them violent video games they are too
young for) seems to be more of an important question. of course this is always
going to be a no-no for conservatives since any solutions are almost certainly
going to mean an increase in tax.

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maqr
Let's assume the absolute worst: video games have caused mass shootings. Do we
ban video games?

~~~
taligent
I personally don't think so. But it could just mean adjusting ratings and
making sure that proof of age is required when purchasing classified content.

I think everyone would agree that certain types of content should not be
available until you have reached a certain level of maturity.

~~~
mistercow
>But it could just mean adjusting ratings and making sure that proof of age is
required when purchasing classified content.

For the government to do that would entail amending the constitution, since
SCOTUS has already ruled that doing so violates the First Amendment.

~~~
TheMiller
Various exceptions to freedom of speech have been upheld by the Supreme Court;
this constitutional right is not absolute. If significant new research results
appeared, it would not be surprising if the court to revisited the issue to
consider whether another exception is warranted.

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batiudrami
The main problem I see is if there is a demonstrable correlation between real-
life violence and video game violence, it'd be very difficult to tell which
proceeded the other. I would think, for instance, that those predisposed to
violence would be more likely to enjoy the violent aspects of video games.

The media's claims that the secluded white guy who shot up a school did it
because they played violent games is ridiculous (for instance, I'd say a good
95% of secluded white guys played counter strike when I was at school -
perhaps they also enjoy eating food and listening to music), but I don't think
that we, as gamers, should be so averse to studies being done as to the
potential effects of video game violence.

There is a habit (obviously not unique to gamers) of dismissing any studies
they disagree with as being 'inconclusive' or having 'stupid methods', while
shouting the results of studies that we agree with from the rooftops.

~~~
khill
Studies like this can be valuable and useful. However, we need to be careful
to use the scientific method in interpreting results and remember that
correlation does not imply causation.

My main concern around studies like this is that the media outlets (and many
people in society) don't apply scientific method and want to draw conclusions
from such studies regardless of cause-effect scenarios.

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deelowe
Yes and it was a direct response to the NRA. He intends to use this as a means
to deflate their arguments on the whole gun control debate. My guess is that
the study will come back saying games aren't the cause of violence. The public
will breath a sign of relief and then he'll continue with the proposal. The
NRA's argument will be invalidated and he'll use their words against them to
win the debate. Man, I don't agree with most of his policies, but Obama is one
smart cookie.

Ohh, and I hate politicians. Nothing about the above has anything to do with
the good of the nation. Where's the study into the state of mental health care
in the US? Sigh...

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sswezey
If he really wants to get serious, look at movie ratings and what is shown on
TV not video games. TV pervades more houses and influences from an earlier age
than video games. If being exposed to violent media is the hypothesis, limit
the amount of violence on television (and from movies).

R and PG-13 movies with lots of violence run all the time on cable television
with little to no settings to limit it. Unfortunately, the people who like the
status quo for films and television have large amounts of political sway and
would rather deflect towards video games instead of revising their beloved
MPAA ratings.

~~~
taligent
Video games are interactive. TVs are not. Now I am not a behavioural
psychologist so I don't know to what extent interactivity affects changes in
behaviour. I doubt you do either.

That is why studies are important.

~~~
sigzero
While TVs are not interactive, when you watch TV your mind goes into passive
mode and absorbs what it sees. I agree, studies (careful studies) are needed.

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ams6110
It's all a huge distraction from solving our real problems. It's made to order
for a politician. Something emotionally charged that can consume attention, so
our real problems which would require real leadership can be kicked down the
road or under the carpet for a while longer.

~~~
jostmey
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. There is a need to understand what
causes certain crazy individuals to kill large numbers of people. Research
into these causes, such as studying the effects of violent video games, would
seem warranted. Even if we ban military assault weapons & require background
checks on every gun purchase, the violent acts might still remain. Take for
example the 2011 shooting in Norway, a country where guns are banned.

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kevinconroy
Yes, he did. Without solid research, it's far too easy for movies/TV/video
games to get blamed for gun violence. It's a brilliant move as he's not saying
if the NRA's claims that video games are to blame is true or not. He's just
saying let's figure it out and go from there.

For the purposes of moving forward with the debate on gun safety, I think it's
great to apply the scientific process and see what it says. Based on the
results it may open up a rabbit hole around censorship, but at least we'll
have some solid research to read on it. I suspect the initial research could
point to follow up studies that would pinpoint specific factors that we as a
society should be concerned about, rather than just "violence in video games".

I honestly have no idea what they'll find, but I'd wager that if there is a
link that there are specific triggers or contextual combinations that make
them a concern. The good news if that happens is that as an industry we can
address those specific things rather than doing all out bans.

~~~
blakehaggerty
Who's pocket are these researchers in though?

~~~
anigbrowl
Good studies document their methodology so the conclusions can be replicated
by independent researchers. The peer review process is not immune from
failure, but overall it works very well. It's not the case that researchers in
general simply sell their conclusions to the highest bidder.

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gnosis
I wonder how sincere the US government is at wanting to end violence, when at
the same time it nurtures the largest military in the world -- a military
which has managed to kill the most people since WW2.

It also has one of the largest police forces and prison industries in the
world, for whom violence is a very useful tool.

I'm not sure if the US government wants to end violence so much as monopolize
it.

Nurturing violent tendencies in people can be quite useful to the US
government, as long as those people can be persuaded to use their violence
upon command, and at targets of the government's choice.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
Really? You don't think that is a bit of a stretch? You think people in the
White House cabinet are sitting around thinking about how theu can instill and
nurture violence in people so they can have "kill bots" in the military?
You've got to be joking -- that's tin foil hat stuff.

Besides, the military has a pretty straightforward program for training
civilians to be soldiers, it's not this great big conspiracy as you suggest.

~~~
gnosis
I recommend reading Dave Grossman's book _On Killing_.[1]

From the blurb:

 _"The good news is that most soldiers are loath to kill. But armies have
developed sophisticated ways of overcoming this instinctive aversion. And
contemporary civilian society, particularly the media, replicates the army's
conditioning techniques, and, according to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's thesis, is
responsible for our rising rate of murder among the young._

 _Upon its initial publication, ON KILLING was hailed as a landmark study of
the techniques the military uses to overcome the powerful reluctance to kill,
of how killing affects soldiers, and of the societal implications of
escalating violence. Now, Grossman has updated this classic work to include
information on 21st-century military conflicts, recent trends in crime,
suicide bombings, school shootings, and more. The result is a work certain to
be relevant and important for decades to come."_

[1] - [http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psychological-Learning-
Soci...](http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psychological-Learning-
Society/dp/0316040932)

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WalterBright
Remember, in the 1950's comic books were blamed for violence.

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digikata
While we should shy from studying anything, someone should first explain how
the modern, massive expansion of video games in realism and reach doesn't
correlate with overall increases in violent crimes. Both violent crime and
homicide rates in the US have been in decline since the early 1990's. If
correlation isn't causation, anti-correlation should have a much higher bar
for causation.

~~~
baddox
Also, while I don't have any statistics on hand, I suspect the portion of the
population playing video games has risen drastically since the early 1990s.

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dinkumthinkum
This is just poppycock, Obama may be playing into the hands of the NRA here.
Why don't we study effects of religion. I suspect more minds have been
influenced to kill because of religion than Call of Duty, thanks for playing
though.

Honestly, these tragedies are no reason to overreact and reduce freedoms. I
don't think there is much evidence that these rampage shootings have
precursors in movies and video games. They seem to be related to delusions and
mental illness. Look at Lanza, Gabbie Giffords shooter, Virginia Tech, and
Holmes, all clearly mentally ill. There was a school shooter named Luke
Woodham, very ill. Besides rampage shooters, gun violence occurs in concert
with other crimes related to drugs, domestic altercations, etc.

I don't think we should take this film and game link seriously. Of all the
gamers, there are so few rampage shooters and probably a small percentage of
then are even "gamers." It's hard to take seriously.

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orionblastar
Those rejoicing that we are going to have new gun laws to ban guns, better
think again when they also make new laws to ban violent video games, movies,
and TV shows.

