
Marine Corps Bans Public Display of Confederate Flag - chirau
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/us/marine-corps-confederate-flag.html
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blendo
I'm reminded of the repeal in 2011's of the US military's "Don't Ask Don't
Tell" (despite John McCain's filibuster), as well as President Truman's 1948
directive to integrate the armed services.

The US military has always been remarkably influential, as we see when
important issues of public affairs can be moved by a purely military decision.
Perhaps we shouldn't rely on a warrior elite so much? (ex-USAF enlisted here)

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joecool1029
I have to imagine that the US military is the only military in the world that
has a history of flying a traitors flag after they defeated them. It makes
about as much sense as flying the anarchist's flag while serving in a state
military.

I'm wondering as well if the branches use any of the conquered peoples' flags,
like various Native American nations. I couldn't find anything on the web
about it.

~~~
jariel
One of the poorest imaginable ways to frame the subject.

'First Nations' flags are flown in various capacities all over the world,
sometimes related to the local national forces.

Totems, elements of the local culture, flags are more common than not even in
Colonial regalia.

Of course, castigation 1/2 of a nation as 'traitors' for seceding from a union
is so problematic I wouldn't know where to begin with that.

~~~
Alekhine
We've been calling the Confederates rebels since the Civil War, and we're not
going to stop. Though you could make the legal argument that States have the
right to secede, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid it, and any
rights not forbidden are left to the States. But we didn't care at the time.
Lincoln didn't give a damn about their right to secede, he wanted to preserve
the Union. Who can blame him? It was expedient to call them traitors, because
you couldn't really motivate people to fight for the cause of abolishing
slavery back then. Not large armies of ordinary people, anyway.

So yes, we denied them their right to secede because we didn't care to have
the country split in half. I'm glad we did, because they were slavers. Fuck
them and their 'states' rights'.

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jariel
Holy camole I'm not making an argument about 'states rights' and definitely
not for the 'Confederate Flag' or for the 'South' \- I don't care about any of
those things - I'm talking about the term 'Traitor' as historically objective
terminology.

~~~
Libeste
When has it not been considered treason?

~~~
jariel
So the American revolution was just Treason then, right?

Is how we should plainly describe it in the history books?

And since the movement to abolish slavery in the Empire was already afoot, and
slavery was abolished outside the US (within the Empire) shortly after the
American revolution - and - George Washington & Co. supported slavery,
supported the wide expansion of the slave trade to the point wherein the US
was the last place in the 'modern world' to abolish slavery nearly a century
later ...

Should we commonly refer to Americans as 'Traitors' and Slavers and ban the
Stars and Stripes as well? There are definitely a few who would support that.

History is complicated and has many perspectives. Flags mean different things
to different people for different reasons at different times.

Obviously, the Confederate flag is complicated and divisive enough that it
shouldn't be used relating to public office especially at the federal level.
But to simply imply the Southern states were merely 'Traitors' (as some would
have it), would be to use too narrow a lens and misrepresent that part of
history. I don't think anyone in 2020 is going to miss out on the act it was
largely about slavery.

~~~
Libeste
Yes.

Yes. Maybe you wouldn't have misunderstood it.

Which version of the Stars and Stripes?

Sure, flags mean different things to different people.

No, that doesn't make it complicated, it didn't stop other flags from being
banned.

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Dylan16807
> It was not immediately clear if the ban would apply to clothing and cars
> owned by Marines when they are off base and off duty. The Marine Corps did
> not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday.

Ha. The one thing I was curious about that wasn't in the title, and the
article doesn't have an answer.

Edit: Now that I'm at multiple downvotes, I'm kind of confused, anyone want to
explain? I'm quoting a useful part of the article and making a comment
directly about its content and the quality of the journalism, so what's so
bad?

~~~
joecool1029
Nobody likes the flippant attitude, that's why you're getting downvoted.

As for questioning the quality of the journalism, they requested the
information from the military and the military chose not to respond. What more
do you expect out of them?

If they wanted to speculate in an op-ed, they'd probably write something to
the effect that it's very unlikely that the military (or government in
general) can restrict citizens from displaying whatever they want off-duty.
This is 1st amendment but comes with a strong caveat that it's as long as
there's no association with the US military. Basically nothing to suggest the
military endorses their speech/beliefs or that the message they are
transmitting comes from the military in any way.

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cmurf
Meanwhile, a minimum of six states still publicly display variations on flags
of the Confederacy as their official state flags.
[https://extras.denverpost.com/flags/](https://extras.denverpost.com/flags/)

~~~
twic
Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi certainly do.

North Carolina's is based their own secessionist flag, not the Confederate
flag.

Arkansas's flag is not a variation on the Confederate flag; there is a star
that represents the Confederacy, but then there are stars that represent
France and Spain as well!

Tennessee's flag is not a variation on a Confederate flag. That page says as
much.

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renewiltord
The Commandant's rationale makes sense. One nation, united.

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zrail
Good.

