
US Lifts Laptop Ban on Etihad, Emirates and Turkish Airlines - Yellow_Boat
https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/05/us-lifts-laptop-ban-on-airline-passengers-flying-with-etihad-emirates-and-turkish/
======
bogomipz
>"The department of Homeland Security initiated the ban in March. It came into
effect covering all flights to U.S. destinations from 10 airports in the
Middle East, including major travel hubs like Dubai, Abu Dabi and Dohar."

So how would a ban at flights originating at these airports prevent someone
from exploiting this on a flight with a layover in this airport i.e while the
plane was in route to one of these 10 airports?

>"While administration officials didn’t comment on any new and specific
threats, ..."

This is used to justify every questionable action or inaction in the "Endless
War on Terror." The claim is always "we can't comment because its an issue of
national security." Do people of that "Nation" have no right to be informed
about decisions being made on their behalf? Especially where safety is
concerned?

Shouldn't this information be shared with the citizens of that nation so they
can make up their own minds and make informed decisions? This level of
infantilizing is just completely unacceptable. Those in the U.S security
apparatus seems to take the view that they are parents and everyone else is a
child.

~~~
marcoperaza
The government has made pretty clear over the last few months that the reason
for the ban was intelligence that jihadist groups had made progress towards
developing a laptop bomb. It is pretty reasonable for them to withhold details
in order to protect sources and intelligence-gathering techniques.

~~~
bogomipz
No they haven' made it pretty clear that "jihadist groups had made progress."
Please provide a citation for that. The official TSA website states:

"Evaluated intelligence indicates that terrorist groups continue to target
commercial aviation and are aggressively pursuing innovative methods to
undertake their attacks"[1]

It says nothing about them making progress. Also that's a pretty nebulous
statement. "Evaluated intelligence indicates"? Why not share the details with
the public in the form of a redacted report?

Could you imagine the Surgeon General in the US issuing a statement that some
food causes cancer and then not releasing any of the details? Of course not.

Withholding details that allow your citizens to make their own informed
decisions regarding their safety and welfare is unacceptable.

Also did anyone ever assume that terrorists had stopped being interested in
damaging aircraft? We are reminded of that every time we fly in the US and are
berated and abused by TSA personal. So this isn't really a new development is
it?

[1] [https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/03/21/fact-sheet-aviation-
secu...](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/03/21/fact-sheet-aviation-security-
enhancements-select-last-point-departure-airports)

~~~
jeremymcanally
I don't get the aggressive tone here?

I think the ban is stupid, but they actually have had significant intelligence
that (a) they have stolen scanning equipment they are using in the development
of explosives so they can avoid detection and (b) they have developed newer
laptop bombs that are more dangerous and harder to detect. It took me
literally 30 seconds on Google to find an article detailing it with links:
[http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/isis-laptop-bomb-threat-
planes...](http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/isis-laptop-bomb-threat-planes-carry-
on-ban-europe-middle-east/)

~~~
bogomipz
I didn't think my tonality was in any way aggressive. It certainly wasn't
meant to be.

Yes I read that story on heavy.com back in May. And heavy.com is not part of
the DHS, the TSA or any other US government agency.

Also the story on heavy.com is reporting about an unnamed source who reported
it to another publication(the Washington Post.)

So in effect you have - someone saying that someone told someone else this.
That's hardly counts as a credible intelligence. That's what I would third-
hand news. It's like the children's game of "Telephone."

~~~
marcoperaza
> _Also the story on heavy.com is reporting about an unnamed source who
> reported it to another publication(the Washington Post.) So in effect you
> have - someone saying that someone told someone else this. That 's hardly
> counts as a credible intelligence. That's what I would third-hand news. It's
> like the children's game of "Telephone."_

This is a rather disingenuous argument. You're making a big fuss about
heavy.com linking to WaPo, but why not just disregard the heavy.com article
and look at the WaPo article? Further, it's pretty standard for news reports
concerning intelligence matters to originate from anonymous sources.

~~~
bogomipz
Please read the entire context. I was originally responding to the statement:

>"The government has made pretty clear over the last few months that the
reason for the ban was intelligence that jihadist groups had made progress
towards developing a laptop bomb."

A Washington Post article citing an anonymous source is not the government
making it "pretty clear." I'm not being disingenuous at all. The US Government
making it pretty clear would be via a press briefing or some other such
official statement.

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clamprecht
I'm not sure if this has hit the US news, but from a few days go in Argentina
news, the US is going to require special scanners in the airports in other
countries (Spanish article, English translation below):

[http://www.iprofesional.com/notas/252113-computadoras-
tecnol...](http://www.iprofesional.com/notas/252113-computadoras-tecnologia--
Sumaran-mas-escanners-en-Ezeiza-tras-las-medidas-que-impuso-EEUU)

"The United States government will strengthen security measures for people
traveling to that country with computers and tablets. Official sources from
that country confirmed that you can still travel normally, with personal
electronic devices. However, they said that in three weeks the stricter
controls will apply.

....airports and airlines flying to the United States from 105 countries of
the world, including Argentina, will be asked to install state-of-the-art
scanners that detect traces of explosives in electronic equipment....From the
moment they request it, passengers traveling to the USA from airports or by
companies that do not have them, will not be able to carry either computers or
tablets on board. Nor in the cargo hold....

....In this context, the transport authorities, representatives of the
airlines and PSA [airport police] officials met urgently this Friday at the
headquarters of the Ministry of Transport to discuss the issue. "What we
defined is that this Tuesday we are going to communicate to companies a
procedural plan: from what types of scanners to how to get them and how we are
going to train those who operate them," explained Oscar Rubio, director of The
Airport Security Police, Clarín.

In three weeks, passengers of companies or airports that do not have them,
will be unable to bring the computers and tablets on board, and perhaps also
in the hold because of the current restrictions on equipment containing
nickel," added the official...."The truth is that it is not a difficult
technology to get, it can be bought, acquired by leasing or through a
supplier, it is not impossible, and we are moving with the fastest speed
because we want to prevent the restriction from being applied. Therefore, we
are not facing a prohibition, but before a new measure. If it is not
fulfilled, then the impediment can come."

~~~
tehlike
This is making me worried. When i was a student at mit, we had trips to boeing
facilities in seattle. One time, i was again selected randomly for explosive
trace sample collection from hands. I dont know what it was, but when they put
the tissue in the machine, the machine showed a blinking text saying explosive
detected. The tsa agent(iirc) paniced, tried to call out his supervisor while
trying to keep an eye on me.

Now usa probably has more experience with false positives, i am curious how i
will be treated when i go visit my parent :)

~~~
leesalminen
Happened to me about a year ago flying DEN to LGA. I had one of those thermal
receipt printers in my carry on. Those set off the bomb swab machines. Luckily
Mr. TSA knew that thermal printers could set the machine off so nobody
panicked and I was allowed through.

~~~
waqf
So now all a terrorist needs to do is carry a thermal printer!

~~~
yellowapple
Soon: "Serengeti In Uproar As U.S. Travel Ban Extends to Zebras"

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sschueller
I don't understand why these bans are only for specific airlines. Maybe if the
flights originate from specific airports which may have lax security. However
the ban is also for flights to those destination originating from the US.

If there was a way to turn a laptop into a bomb I am sure the terrorist would
just jump on a local US aircraft.

~~~
vxxzy
I don't think it is so much about it being a "bomb". I'm gonna take a stab and
say it may be related to the ability to take over the control system of the
plane via a laptop/wifi [1]. It would make sense to some degree if the US knew
that an airline had planes that were "unpatched".

[1]: [http://observer.com/2016/02/midair-hack-shows-the-dangers-
of...](http://observer.com/2016/02/midair-hack-shows-the-dangers-of-in-flight-
wi-fi/)

~~~
rigden33
No it's almost certainly due to the recent intel that found that ISIL had
developed a way to hide bombs in laptops to evade airport security.
[http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/31/politics/terrorist-laptop-
bomb...](http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/31/politics/terrorist-laptop-bombs-may-
evade-security/index.html) [http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/isis-laptop-bomb-
threat-planes...](http://heavy.com/news/2017/05/isis-laptop-bomb-threat-
planes-carry-on-ban-europe-middle-east/)

~~~
jbg_
Let's see... they developed a way to hide a bomb powerful enough to bring down
an airliner inside a laptop, but not a way to buy tickets for flights other
than a few specific routes on a few specific airlines? If you believe that,
I've got a bridge to sell you.

~~~
rigden33
I admit it's a little odd. Relatedly, the UK also instituted a similar laptop
ban as well. If not the laptop bomb threat, then what do you think it is?
[http://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-laptop-ban-flights-
explain...](http://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-laptop-ban-flights-explained)

~~~
jbg_
I know some (maybe even most) of the affected airlines have significant
government ownership. It could therefore be a way of gaining political
leverage.

It could also be a leg-up to American carriers competing on those routes.
Another commercial option is a tactic to require implementation of security
practices that involve American-made equipment.

I'm sure there are many other possibilities that make more sense than the
public explanation, which only seems to make sense if we assume the people
protecting us are incredibly stupid. I don't think they are, so the public
story is probably just a cover.

~~~
sqeaky
What if instead of being stupid they were artificially limited in some other
way?

Perhaps, they wanted a more comprehensive laptop ban but were stopped by
someone.

------
utucuro
On related news, Millimeter wave scanners are being installed in Turkish
airports after the lifting of the ban...

~~~
donquichotte
Made by an US manufacturer?

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demarq
is this a thank you token for putting pressure on Qatar?

~~~
Quarrelsome
I'm not buying that as part of US strategy. Saudi vs Qatar seems to be part of
the standard Saudi vs Iran stuff that the West tries its best to ignore.

~~~
bogomipz
Except that the West isn't trying to ignore it, at least not Trump:

[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/tr...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/06/trump-
qatar-saudi-arabia-terrorism-corker/529479/)

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paulpauper
Laptop bans are such a horrible idea. Yes, entrust a $2000+ dollar piece of
hardware (with important software and files) to someone who is barely paid
enough to care what happens to it.

~~~
NelsonMinar
Not just don't care, also deliberate theft. It's been a big problem with TSA
agents in the United States.

~~~
waqf
That doesn't _necessarily_ mean it would have been a problem with middle-
eastern airlines. They knew that the entire profitability of their US routes
depended on well-off business travellers continuing to trust them — and unlike
the TSA, they operate in a competitive market.

~~~
unknownsavage
There are plenty of opportunities for things to be stollen from checked in
luggage at the arriving airport.

This actually happened to me on a flight into the US, with an expensive set of
german kitchen knives in checked-in. In the US my suitcase was taken out of
the normal line for extra checking (I guess because the knives showed up in an
xray?).

They then later gave me my suitcase, but the entire knife set was missing. No
documentation that it was taken. No one even cared. No recourse. And nothing
came of it.

If I have something valuable that I couldn't take in my carryon again, I'd
rather just DHL than trust the TSA to not steal it.

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amorphid
This makes me happy. I flew from Istanbul, Turkey to San Francisco, CA, USA
while the ban was in place. The actual surrendering my laptop didn't bother me
much. What did bother me was the humiliation the Turkish Airlines workers had
to endure, and how hard I had to work to suppress my desire to complain about
the process. Treating a few airlines differently never appealed to me. I
"like" "necessary" suffering to be ubiquitous.

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paulpauper
The solution to the laptop bans is portable hard drives .Let the $15/hour
worker lose your laptop. the software and files are more important

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tehlike
I am looking forward to the day where global entry is applied worldwide :/
breezing through security is pretty nice after being aelected randomly so many
times :)

