
Soylent’s Next Chapter - ph0rque
http://blog.soylent.me/post/108074810737/soylents-next-chapter
======
ChikkaChiChi
Soylent is approaching the 'meal replacement' as an outsider to an industry
that is rife with subsidization, existing partnerships, preconceived notions,
and vast mires of bureaucracy. They are dogfooding their product, iterating
based on feedback, publishing their findings and recipes, and still this isn't
good enough for the "disruptive" community of HackerNews.

The two biggest competitors in this realm according to these discussions seem
to be Ensure, a product from a 127 year old publicly traded company (Abbott)
with 90k employees and 40 billion in revenue, and Carnation Instant Breakfast,
a product from a Swiss candy company with a laundry list of other products
that don't give me a lot of faith that they have my health as their primary
interest.

Soylent isn't perfect yet, but neither is our understanding of the human body.
I'm glad to see them get infused with more cash that will allow them to add
more expertise to their roster and shore up better distribution. I'm more at
ease with Soylent and it's backing than I am with the current DIY movement, at
least until things settle down.

I'm glad its an option. I'm even more glad that it's fostering the discussion.

------
berberous
I still am optimistic about the idea and principles behind Soylent, but I got
to say, I was not impressed with their initial product (v 1.0 and 1.1).

It gives users horrific smelling gas, and honestly, I generally felt worse on
Soylent than after any other type of food I have ever eaten, including junk
food. (I didn't mind the taste though.)

They are already at v 1.3 though. Here's hoping that this capital influx
allows them to rapidly improve the recipe.

~~~
collyw
I honestly can't understand the appeal or novelty in it. Ready meals have been
available for years. Vitamin tables have been available for years. Where
exactly does the difference lie?

~~~
Someone1234
It is a completely self-contained eating system. If it works as advertised you
just eat that and you're done, no spreadsheets, no calculating up to make sure
you're consuming what you should be, and so on. You should be getting
everything you need.

You're paying for the 100% system, not 98%, not 99%: 100% that is the USP. The
price is only a little more expensive than eating out ($3.33/meal roughly).

Plus most off-the-shelf "Ready meals" are extremely unhealthy. Many contain
transfats and other foot preservatives which are quite bad for you.

~~~
paulojreis
How can they sell the 100% if we don't have enough knowledge to determine what
_is_ the 100%?

~~~
ChikkaChiChi
I think its based on FDA allotments. I completely agree though that we're
still in our scientific infancy of understanding what the body needs and how
best to get it those resources.

~~~
collyw
Totally agree. People have lived for millennia on completely different diets
due to their geographical location. To say that one diet has the correct
amount ignores this fact completely.

------
jayess
I just wish they would do a low-carb version. I tried soylent for a couple of
weeks. I then had my annual physical and my blood sugar level was much higher
than it had been in the past. So much so that my doctor asked me what I had
been doing and what I was eating. He said I was now suddenly "pre-diabetic." I
stopped soylent immediately. I _really_ wanted it to be a legitimate meal
alternative. I'm disappointed.

As a side note, I now have four boxes of soylent for sale if anyone wants
them... :)

~~~
lucb1e
I have never heard this before. Haven't people tried it for a month with
health checks before and after? Couldn't it be anything else (did you run
exclusively on Soylent)?

I've been thinking of ordering some for when I don't have time for lunch or
don't feel like cooking or something, but this would obviously make it a no-
go.

~~~
jayess
It was not exclusively soylent, I was having it for lunch every day. I was
eating well otherwise for dinner. Of course everyone is different and some
bodies react differently than others.

~~~
smackfu
Seems like the cause / effect here is a little shaky, since you were eating so
little, and were only on it a couple a weeks.

~~~
jayess
I sort of wigged out at the news and bought myself a blood sugar testing kit
afterwards. I tested myself for a few days after ending the soylent and my
blood sugar returned to normal (around 85 in the morning after waking up).

My next step is to try soylent again and test myself to see the direct
effect... every hour or so.

------
ph0rque
I've been reading HN's overwhelmingly negative treatment of Soylent (as the
concept) with some amusement. I'm glad they're successful, and hope they
become even more so.

That said, I was really underwhelmed with the taste of Soylent when I finally
got mine. I understand that I can improve it by e.g. blending a banana into
the shake, but if I need to take out my blender and prepare other food to add
to Soylent, I might as well make a smoothie out of available fruits and
veggies.

The next time I order Soylent will be when their price comes down to the point
where it's cheaper than the food I buy.

~~~
jasonisalive
_I 've been reading HN's overwhelmingly negative treatment of Soylent (as the
concept) with some amusement._

It's interesting. HN is supposed to represent some of the world's most
dynamic, forward-thinkers. However almost every truly disruptive development
is greeted with small-minded negative thinking and parochialism. Bitcoin is
scam money for paranoiacs who don't trust banks. Inflation is good for
economies. The rich are too rich. We need more and higher taxes and more
socialist redistribution of wealth. Soylent tastes bad and destroys
traditional food cultures. Uber is too powerful and going to become a
monopoly. Google is evil. Without the protection of friendly governments
capitalism will exploit the poor. People are too stupid to protect themselves
from predatory opportunists (and the government is somehow a perfect vessel to
counteract them.) Everything is scary and the way things should be is how a
small group of white men who are very good friends with the US government tell
us how it should be, which happens to be very similar to today but with more
friendly government intervention to fix everything white male programmers are
scared of and don't understand.

I guess it'll be entertaining to watch people changing their tune over the
coming decades.

~~~
TheCapn
You're using this as a platform to address other issues than what I think the
OP is hinting at.

Soylent isn't "new". It isn't "disrupting" anything. Meal replacement
alternatives have existed for decades and there are numerous brands out there
that have a medical proven trackrecord that can be obtained for _cheaper_ than
the Soylent we're seeing pushed today.

What we have here is a case of "forward thinkers" believing that some crackpot
idea from the startup culture is suddenly revolutionary because they marketed
it best to this subculture of life. You're a sucker to believing Soylent
offers anything revolutionary yet paying above market to have them feed you
that lie.

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tLIC_oIeeORWgna6kbpW1...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tLIC_oIeeORWgna6kbpW1ug/htmlview#gid=0)

~~~
jasonisalive
Hey, pretty good! Let me have a go. Ahem:

The iPhone isn't "new". It isn't "disrupting" anything. Smartphones have
existed for years and there are numerous brands out there that have a
commercial proven trackrecord that can be obtained for cheaper than the iPhone
we're seeing pushed today.

What we have here is a case of "forward thinkers" believing that some crackpot
idea from Apple is suddenly revolutionary because they marketed it best to
this subculture of life. You're a sucker to believing iPhone offers anything
revolutionary yet paying above market to have them feed you that lie.

How did I do?

~~~
jschwartzi
Smartphones did exist for years before the iPhone. Take a look at Windows
Mobile sometime.

The main problems with them were that the screens sucked.

~~~
Decade
The whole system sucked. Those things has little memory or CPU. Windows Mobile
didn't have memory protections or preemptive multitasking. Pocket Internet
Explorer sucked even worse than Internet Explorer 6. It was challenging to
find apps for them.

But the real disruption was the disruption in the carrier relationship. A lot
of smartphones didn't have WiFi, and the carriers would nickel and dime you
for every kilobyte. Apple convinced them to do the flat rates and big chunks
of data. Apple introduced manufacturer control of the user experience, instead
of Verizon disabling every feature that would allow you to avoid the carrier's
fees. When the iPhone was announced, the feature I was most impressed by was
the visual voicemail. Voicemail was so tedious and inefficient before iPhone.

------
kyleblarson
People in their 80's have been "hacking eating" for quite some time now. It's
called Ensure. I think I know what's next. Depends (adult diapers) for the
young tech set so you can just go to the bathroom and not disrupt that epic
coding session. Because disrupt.

~~~
jasonisalive
What if Ensure had a cool name and didn't carry connotations of age and
disease? What if it was sexily marketed? What if it was easy to flavour and
make delicious? What if you signed up for a subscription and never thought
about it again? What if you got it from vending machines that were everywhere
you went and recognised you as you approached, having a glass perfectly
formulated to your tastes and needs at that precise moment ready? What if it
came out of a tap? What if your home 3D printer could form it into a multitude
of shapes and textures (bar, cookie, cereal) and it would still be
nutritionally balanced? What if it was surrounded by a devoted and inventive
community of DIY hackers? What if the creator of Ensure was rapidly iterating
it and discussing engineering microbes to produce pure versions of it?

Oh, or is it easier, instead of using your imagination and a bit of
enthusiasm, to point to how it's similar to a crappy product that nobody
bothered to market, and imply that it won't be sucessful - because we all know
the success and impact of a product has nothing to do with the creativity,
perserverance and vision of the creators, right?

~~~
DanBC
Ensure is heavily marketed. It is not irresponsibly marketed. Ensure does not
claim to put you in good health. It doesn't claim o be suitable for everyone.

By the way: Ensure is available in unflavoured versions to allow users to add
it to other food or add other food to it.

~~~
jasonisalive
Cool story. It's not vegan though so it's useless for me. Plus I would far
prefer to buy from a company (eg Soylent) that has a vision of clean,
futuristic food production, rather than a company that stupidly accepts the
dirty, nasty way we make food now.

------
dankoss
Maybe they can use some of their millions to ship orders faster than, I don't
know, 3-6 months? Get it in the Amazon supply chain and have next day
delivery. I'm still waiting on a reorder from a month ago and haven't heard
anything since I emailed customer support.

~~~
nateberkopec
Amazon just "picks and packs" your product. They don't manufacture it for you.
I'm sure 90% of Soylent's supply chain issues aren't in the shipping process
but in raw material procurement and manufacture.

------
nateberkopec
Soylent's website claims they've shipped "over 3 million meals" (1 million
bags) since launch. From what I can tell, the first bag was shipped in May
2014.

That's roughly 111/k bags per month since launch. For the first nine months of
a company, that's operationally extremely impressive.

The delays for new customers (3-6 months, yikes) seem ridiculous, but if you
do the math, I'm surprised it isn't more.

------
n72
Serious question: Do they have any actual nutritionists working on the product
yet or just a bunch of hybristic 20-somethings who think they can "hack" the
nutrition space without any real education, cause, you know, "disrupt!".

~~~
kuida0r3
Per [https://faq.soylent.me/hc/en-
us/articles/200789315-Nutrition](https://faq.soylent.me/hc/en-
us/articles/200789315-Nutrition) \- The Soylent recipe is based on the
recommendations of the Institute of Medicine (IOM) and is approved as a food
by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Soylent 1.2 was developed under the close guidance of our nutritional advisor,
Dr. F. Xavier Pi-Sunyer, M.D., MPH. Pi-Sunyer is professor of medicine at
Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in New York City. At
St. Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center he serves as chief of endocrinology,
diabetes, and nutrition, and is director of the New York Obesity Research
Center. Dr. Pi-Sunyer is also a senior attending physician at St.
Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital and New York-Presbyterian Hospital.

~~~
Someone1234
Being created by a nutritional advisor and a professor of medicine is
legitimately credible.

I just want to add that this:

> is approved as a food by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

Is utterly meaningless. All that means is that everything that goes into the
product is "food grade" and that it was prepared in basically sanitary
conditions. Nothing more. I highly doubt the FDA has examined their health
claims (namely that you could live exclusively off of it). And likely won't
unless there is public or political pressure to do so.

As an aside, I wonder if they could get a military or relief effort contract?
Seems like the type of product perfect for both, as you "just add water!"

~~~
tbrake
> As an aside, I wonder if they could get a military or relief effort
> contract? Seems like the type of product perfect for both, as you "just add
> water!"

A lack of readily available clean water may be a challenge for use in relief
efforts. There are also already products out there e.g.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy%27nut](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumpy%27nut)

~~~
Someone1234
The relief will have to bring in water regardless (so people don't die). If
they add it to the product that isn't "wasted" water as your body just re-
extracts the water and uses it like normal.

------
mwill
Hoping this includes eventual international shipping. I'm an Australian, been
eager to give Soylent a whirl. I've ordered a batch from a 3rd party to see
how I go with it, but would be nice to have access to the genuine article.

~~~
nateberkopec
I'm guessing they're so overwhelmed by domestic demand that they don't feel
the need to open up the market even further.

------
ryanseys
I hope that, as an international customer, they will expand not only their
manufacturing and shipping capabilities in the time-domain but additionally in
the location-domain. There are a number of competing products that have come
to market since Soylent became huge, and their one advantage over Soylent is
they are offering a similar product but will ship nearly world-wide,
effectively beating Soylent "by default" which is kind of sad considering
these products originate in Europe. This also means potentially setting up
manufacturing facilities in other parts of the world so that shipping and
customs costs remain low for everyone, regardless of location. I love the idea
of Soylent but haven't had the chance to try it out because I live a 1 hour's
drive outside the US border in Canada. Congrats to the team on their funding!

------
thebiglebrewski
Great time for me to say that I'm selling all of my Soylent! 6 soylent bags, 6
fish oil canister guys and the original pitcher. zachfeldman (at) gmail dot
com. Make me an offer!

------
schnable
Lots of GMO soy and carbs, this does not seem healthy at all.

~~~
ARCarr
You say "GMO" as if it's a bad thing.

~~~
jeffreyrogers
I think there is a valid argument against GMOs, but it revolves more around
the dangers of creating a monoculture (i.e. one bad crop disease could then
wipe out a large fraction of the food supply), rather than health risks, since
as I'm sure many HN readers are aware, humans have been genetically modifying
food since they've been cultivating it.

~~~
stolio
I know even Neil DeGrasse Tyson has been pushing the "we've been genetically
modifying food for thousands of years!" line but I think it's a bit
disingenuous.

Crossing a tomato and a deep sea fish is fundamentally different from crossing
two strains of corn and we should expect different risks.

~~~
shawn-butler
Are you engaging in hyperbole or is there a link you can provide where someone
has spliced fish genes into a tomato intended for human consumption?

~~~
stolio
It's a thing, though it didn't work. (Wiki links to more in depth sources):

> An early tomato was developed that contained an antifreeze gene (afa3) from
> the winter flounder with the aim of increasing the tomato's tolerance to
> frost, which became an icon in the early years of the debate over
> genetically modified foods, especially in relation to the perceived ethical
> dilemma of combining genes from different species as the tomato gained the
> moniker fish tomato.[18] The antifreeze protein was found to inhibit ice
> recrystallization in the flounder blood, but had no effect when expressed in
> transgenic tobacco.[19] The resulting tomato was never commercialized,
> possibly because the transgenic plant did not perform well in its frost-
> tolerance or other agronomic characteristics

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_tomato](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_tomato)

~~~
shawn-butler
Thanks for info. Yes I would have been surprised if such a radical transfer
would have been found not to actually harm the agronomic viability. Skeptical
a promoter could even be found, but anything is possible.

Helpful characteristics approaching commercial reality involve nothing of the
kind such as the recent StAs1 and StAs2 Simplot potato or the AquAdvantage
salmon opAFP-GHc2 construct.

