
Race in Silicon Valley - crdr88
http://www.fastcompany.com/3037940/a-different-kind-of-valley-life?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=fast-company-daily-manual-newsletter&position=erin&partner=newsletter&campaign_date=12102014
======
epicureanideal
I don't mean to diminish the point they're making in the article at all, but
there are some parts that jump out...

"And imagine that the worst happens, that your startup fails. You're still
good, right? You can just go back to whatever school that you decided to take
a leave of absence from . . . or just draw from your trust fund. But when you
start a company and you're a black entrepreneur, in some cases there is no
alternative. It's a much different experience."

The vast majority of people don't have trust funds and family that can write
$50,000 checks on a whim. Obviously in some communities that percent is 99.99%
vs 99%, but we're still comparing economic class rather than race.

~~~
ajross
"Trust fund" is perhaps a bit spun. But if you look at it as a social class
issue (yes, the quote says "black", but it sounds like a point about poverty
to me), the truth is that an awful lot of young "software entrepreneurs" spend
their time living _at home_ : They walk about in their middle class
neighborhoods with quality internet access, solid development hardware
available on their parents' dime, quiet private bedrooms with nice furniture,
and easy access to a private car when needed.

Think of starting the next Facebook in an urban apartment where multiple
siblings have to share the bedrooms and laptop and maybe the point will be
clearer.

~~~
humanrebar
> Think of starting the next Facebook in an urban apartment where multiple
> siblings have to share the bedrooms and laptop and maybe the point will be
> clearer.

Or from a rural trailer park. Racial demographics aside, rural areas are
consistently the poorest areas:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_poverty#Case_study:_Unite...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_poverty#Case_study:_United_States)

...and especially poignant here, poor kids in rural areas have dial-up
internet at best and no city libraries or internet cafes to walk to. And the
smart and driven ones have no access to STEM magnet schools.

~~~
waterlesscloud
Tangential, but I once heard sci-fi writer Bruce Sterling say that he was more
interested in writing about what happened with technology in the hands of
someone sitting in a mobile home eating cheetos than with some guy in a suit
in an office tower.

------
OoTheNigerian
As a black Nigerian (it's another level) that spent time this year in the
valley, I have a different perspective I hope to elaborate more on in future.

Empathy is going to be important in helping improve things and I believe
successful minorities, in my case black (Nigerian) people have a better chance
than a white person (without my circumstance) and should step up more.

With my cold emails, it was easier for me to meet white people in tech than
black people in tech when I spent 4 months there.

There is a reason Indians no longer have this minority problem.

I hope to write more elaborately about it soon.

BTW, here is the main article. It's a great read
[http://www.fastcompany.com/3037933/the-visible-
man](http://www.fastcompany.com/3037933/the-visible-man)

------
a_gentle_autist
Some choice quotes:

"So even for a mid-level or lower-level engineer, they'll tell us, "I only
want someone who went to Stanford," or someone who has started a company
before."

"And most companies in Silicon Valley say, "We hire from these five schools,
period," right?"

"If you go to those five schools, the percentage of minorities and the
percentage of women is X and Y. Let's say it's 3% and 10%. If those companies
hire only 10% of the people they interview, then the number [of minority
hires] you get is zero. Right? It's zero."

Absolutely revolting.

~~~
dustingetz
What? Can anybody comment if it is true that many SV companies only hire from
a handful of elite schools?

~~~
andymcsherry
Well, I can tell you that not only did I not graduate from an elite school, I
didn't even graduate from college. I've never had a problem finding work at
startups. Very rarely does anyone care -- it's always about whether or not you
have the necessary skills.

------
TulliusCicero
> Let me tell you a story. We only had five Fellows in our first class at
> Code2040, but they were amazing. We had one Fellow who had a 4.7 out of a
> 5.0 GPA, was copresident of his school, varsity athlete at MIT. They went
> through the program and excelled. But when they interviewed at larger
> companies, they had to do these "whiteboard" interviews, where you're given
> a coding challenge and you go to the whiteboard and attack it. And our guys
> didn't get hired, right? They had never done a whiteboard interview. So, in
> that case, is there something wrong with the fellow, or is there something
> wrong with the interview process? Folks need to really understand what
> implicit biases they have. Until they do, the numbers aren't gonna change.

Is he implying that the interview was biased because the coding camp didn't
teach people about whiteboard interviews?

~~~
humanrebar
I think he's fairly explicitly stating that whiteboard reviews are probably
bogus. I don't think that's too controversial of a position to hold these
days.

I think he's also saying that whiteboard interviews probably disadvantage
people from atypical backgrounds. I think that's probable. I've seen people
with good resumes struggle in whiteboard interviews due to what I guess are
communication and confidence issues.

~~~
TulliusCicero
> I think he's fairly explicitly stating that whiteboard reviews are probably
> bogus. I don't think that's too controversial of a position to hold these
> days.

There has been a lot of criticism of whiteboard interviews, but they're still
used because nobody has come up with a good alternative. Larger "take-home"
programming assignments are vulnerable to cheating, and "Work with us for a
week" only works for people who either freelance or are unemployed.

I also wouldn't say that they're "bogus". Flawed, certainly.

------
itchyouch
"Right, and I want black people to be massively, undeniably successful..."

Contextually, the sentiment of wanting black leadership to pave the way and
inspire black youth that success is possible is a noble cause. However, this
sentiment exists everywhere regardless of race, religion, sex. People are
proud to identify with successful group identities.

The elephant in the room to be tackled in the face of "diversity initiatives"
is in the unspoken, unwritten, virtually-non-litigable personal biases. The
interviewee touches on it with how individuals can get a culture pass (e.g.
sharing a love for the same band). The reality is that ethnic diversity is not
a priority and a real risk factor in the beginning of a startup. It is the
last thing people are thinking about. The focus is on building a great,
productive team with relationships that work. Unfortunately, black and white
culture has typically not worked in concert with each other to build social
synergies, thus not having the culture pass becomes the unspoken tipping
weight.

Of course, this cyclical cycle does not make for very virtuous feedback loops.
Up till now, we end up with having predominantly black companies(FUBU,BET,Sean
Jean) and predominantly white companies or predominantly black/hispanic/etc
groups operating within white companies.

Many examples of successful non-white minorities who have overcome the typical
challenges of their respective races appear to have assimilated to being white
as well.

The real conversation to have as a society is to ask how can we blend the
elements of black and white culture together such that being black or being
white allows for a mixed team to be comfortable in their skin with each other?

Getting more successful black engineers, black executives, black CEOs, etc
sounds great in an interview, but in the presence of real biases, all we can
hope for is many wildly successful black companies where the white kids goto
Stanford then Google and the black kids goto the black Stanford and goto the
black Google with a small sprinkling of whites and blacks in the respective
institutions.

~~~
dabockster
The other elephant in the room is the growing number of developers coming from
working class families failing to enter the workforce because they don't meet
the standard of someone who can afford to relocate every time their business
doesn't do well. Many of my friends have failed to get programming jobs even
with qualifications because they were almost always beat by someone who either
went to a fancy school or had connections to money.

------
eLobato
> It's frustrating. People are "big upping" each other because they look like
> each other. People are big upping each other because they are white. And if
> I big up somebody because they're black it's a problem somehow. [...] We
> have a similar skin tone, and in fact, I do want to support somebody who
> looks like me. I think that's a good thing. Let's encourage that. I don't
> see why that is frowned upon. I don't see why that's reverse racism.

I'm really sorry but if you're 'big upping' anyone in any job because their
skin tone matches yours, it is a big problem no matter the RGB of that tone.
I'd be embarrassed every morning when I see my face in the mirror if I
treated/hired some of my peers better just because they 'look like me'.

Great article overall, but I cannot say I agree with this 'we take care of our
people, you take care of your people' attitude. Whether in a minority (hint: I
am) or in a privileged position, I believe you should treat everyone equally,
reflect on how you've been doing so and try hard to overcome your biases. I'd
love to hear other people's comments on this.

------
colmvp
No mention of Hispanics or Asians on a topic about race?

------
malandrew
There are many valid points they raise, but this one is pure malarkey:

    
    
        But when they interviewed at larger companies, they had to do 
        these "whiteboard" interviews, where you're given a coding 
        challenge and you go to the whiteboard and attack it. And our 
        guys didn't get hired, right? They had never done a whiteboard 
        interview. So, in that case, is there something wrong with the 
        fellow, or is there something wrong with the interview process?
    

I hate whiteboard interviews as much as the next person, but it's not like
it's a secret that whiteboard interviews are standard practice, and pretty
much everyone I know that is good at them became good at them the same way;
they studied.

It's pretty common advice everywhere on the internet that when you need to
prepare for such interviews that you go grab yourself a copy of the well-
regarded "Cracking the Code Interview" by Gayle McDowell or one of the other
code interview prep books.

Failing at a whiteboard code interview is not a race or gender thing. It's a
failure to do some basic research on what to expect in the interview or a
failure to spend the time preparing for what you're going to encounter in the
interview process.

------
ivan_ah
> _Most students decide at a very young age whether or not they 're good in
> math and science._

Do they decide or are they told so on exams? Isn't being "good at math" just a
function of how many math-knowledgeable adults surround you whom you could ask
for help? Could educational technology (think books---not iPads) make "math
help" more accessible and ultimately boost the percentage of "good in math"
people to 100%?

~~~
Cookingboy
"Isn't being "good at math" just a function of how many math-knowledgeable
adults surround you whom you could ask for help?"

That point is debatable, just like many different form of talents, different
people do have different inherent interest and capability at learning certain
set of skills, math is no different.

Getting support and easy help can be crucial, but it's not the only
bottleneck.

~~~
ivan_ah
I agree with you that everyone has a different "innate ability" for math, but
I think the variations are much smaller compared to the average. In other
words, there is a bell curve, but it isn't where you think it is:
[http://sigeneration.ca/images/Diagram2.png](http://sigeneration.ca/images/Diagram2.png)
via [http://www.sigeneration.ca/home/resources/jump-
math/](http://www.sigeneration.ca/home/resources/jump-math/)

> _different inherent interest_

That's very true, and this is why it never made sense to me how all kids are
pushed through a standardized progression of grades. What would be cool is if
you can "focus" your studies on one area during one or two years of school,
and then "catch up" on the subjects you left to the wayside.

------
nraynaud
I'm slightly distraught by the idea that some companies in SV are choosing
their candidates by the schools they went to. They are actively working
against meritocracy.

~~~
malandrew
Not necessarily if we assume that the schools themselves admitted candidates
based on merit, which is a pretty safe assumption. The only attendance
criteria that creates a bias against merit is affordability, but my
understanding is that at the very top schools there is ample scholarship
funding available for the underprivileged, such that finances should never be
the reason for not attending if you are accepted.

~~~
nraynaud
merit is assessed on continuous basis, not one time when you were young. You
have merit because you are good at taking test when you're under 18, and then
you'll have it easy for life, doesn't sound like the american dream to me.
Moreover those schools are balancing the number of full scholarships and the
number of full tuitions for economical reasons, some people are there for
their parent's money.

------
malandrew

        If you go to those five schools, the percentage of 
        minorities and the percentage of women is X and Y. 
        Let's say it's 3% and 10%. If those companies hire 
        only 10% of the people they interview, then the 
        number [of minority hires] you get is zero. Right? 
        It's zero. And to the extent that they are unwilling 
        to go outside of those five schools, it's going to 
        stay zero.
    

No, it's not zero, it should be a number that corresponds to 3% and 10%,
respectively. Yes, those numbers suck, but it helps to get the math right.

If the number is only 3% and 10% from those schools, then the problem starts
at the funnel that feeds those schools [1]. More minorities and women need to
apply to those schools, so that the percentage goes up.

Should companies look beyond those five schools? Yes, but...

I'm not going to speak for any other curriculums, but the truth is that most
computer science curriculums in the US are absolute garbage. Many CS programs
are just java schools [0]. What these companies have done is identified the
schools whose programs have a reputation for not being java schools.
Historically, you could figure out which programs are not java schools by
looking for those that use books like SICP, K&R, CLRS, TaoCP, PAIP, AIMA,
EOPL, the dragon book, etc. as the basis for their CS curriculum. If there are
schools out there with a much greater percentage of minorities and women that
use such books for foundational courses, then you should suggest those schools
as places to recruit from.

Simply put, the criteria for spending time, effort and money to recruit from
other schools needs to be based primarily on the rigor of the curriculum, with
demographics of the student body being a secondary goal.

That all being said, a lot of the best software developers I've met that
didn't go to those top schools didn't graduate with a degree in computer
science at all. Pretty much all the others are auto-didacts. Assuming this is
generalizable, the only actionable you can extract from it is not to recruit
based on school at all.

[0]
[http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchool...](http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html)

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8593277](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8593277)

[2] FWIW, I didn't graduate from a top school (NCSU) and double majored in
textile technology and apparel mgmt and psychology, so I'm not even advocating
a position I myself gain from.

------
YesImBlack
It becomes clearer and clearer when reading an article like this why black
people have so many problems. This group of black "tech leaders" are full of
bigotry and have severe victim mentality. Much of what they believe as fact
isn't even the truth. Things will never improve in the black community as long
as these attitudes prevail. Most blacks blame everyone but themselves. They
don't take personal responsibility. This is really the issue. Sad how obvious
it is, yet this PC country won't just stand up and say ENOUGH. No more
handouts, work or starve. A pass is given to blacks on so many levels because
of some non expiring slavery guilt card they incessantly use. Even blacks
whose ancestors never even were slaves use the race card. Lower expectations
of blacks combined with their willingness to accept such a thing is another
reason they cannot succeed.

Black immigrant comes to America today with nothing to his name. He sees a
successful person and asks "how did that person get to where he is" after
being told, he works hard and becomes successful himself.

Black kids born in America today asks the same question and his (usually
single) mom tells him. "Son, you have to be white to get there (your never
going to amount to nothin)...

or

Mom says, "You have to study every day in school, get good grades, go to a
university and study every day there, graduate, get an entry level job, and
work, work, work your way up (pay your dues). Kid thinks for a second and
says... Naw, ill just be a pro athlete if that doesn't work out I will make it
big selling drugs or pimping, that sounds a lot less boring.

These two scenarios are what I have heard directly in 25 years as a career
counselor working with thousands of blacks. Blacks continue to embrace a
culture and attitude of failure in this country. Black culture in America is
just that. Why not leave that behind?

------
a_gentle_autist
"I have a slightly different view. In the report that Google published, they
said they've spent roughly $40 million on diversity efforts over the past 10
years.

They've spent, I'll guess, several hundreds of millions of dollars in the past
two years on self-driving cars. If companies like Google truly wanted to solve
this problem, they'd spend more than $40 million over 10 years and make a much
more significant effort.

So my conclusion is that right now we actually don't want to solve it."

Stunningly frank observation, dumping money into a project that will never see
the light of day. Ah, Google.

~~~
chroma
These priorities seem sane to me. Vehicles kill over a million people every
year. Self-driving cars can drastically reduce that number.

~~~
a_gentle_autist
Ones that get to market, like those from Mercedes, VW, Tesla.

Google's car tech, and software, will never be adopted by an auto
manufacturer. And Google will never sell cars.

~~~
swashboon
I am wondering why you think that Google technologies will never be adopted.
From what I have seen of the industry there is a good chance they will be
adopted.

Google also does not have to sell cars to consumers, it could modify cars to
sell a service.

~~~
bduerst
That seems like the more appropriate market approach, right?

Cars are these large depreciating assets that spend 22 hours a day doing
nothing, save for that one long road trip vacation you take.

Factor out driver salaries and driver insurance, you should save money with an
on-demand fleet vs. making payments on your own vehicle.

