

Gnome cofounder: Desktop Linux is a Chernobyl of Fail - bsg75
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/06/miguel_desktop_linux_chernobyl/

======
codygman
I use debian stable, xmonad, urxvt, vlc, and mplayer. Everything just works
with my setup and never crashes. I can replace xmonad with fluxbox and say the
same.

It might not be pretty, but I NEVER EVER have to change anything at all. I can
leave it on (and have) for a full year and have no problems.

Of course, with xmonad I have xmobar for the time and current desktop. Nothing
else, all that takes up my screen space is windows.

Personally I think it's perfect, and I don't spend time looking at some pretty
desktop eye candy anyway. I've used mac before and it's nice, but the window
decorations just get in the way.

Want to never have to mess with anything? Get debian stable and a non-gnome
window manager. Non-gnome because I've had crashes when gnome was involved
even with debian stable.

------
scmurcott
Personally I think this is just bad press for Linux by the Register and the
article has an agenda.

I do not need to tinker with my Linux environment, my family has been using
Linux on the desktop for years...

Just because some dev prefers a MAC and seems to be using a terribly broken
system with bad package management and dependency issues does not mean the
KDE, Gnome, Unity, Lxde, Fluxbox, E17, Openbox or Xfce... to name a few are
failures on the desktop.

My E17 setup is vastly superior to any boring OSX environment... and yes it
wakes up faster when I open the lid.

~~~
blaenk
Miguel de Icaza is hardly "some dev" though.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza>

> Miguel de Icaza is a Mexican free software programmer, best known for
> starting the >>GNOME<< and Mono projects.

~~~
Shorel
Of course. He's the guy with the agenda to destroy Linux.

With this post he says: 'mission accomplished' to his Microsoft masters.

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metacontent
If you enjoy understanding how your computer works and enjoy tinkering with it
then Linux is likely your dream desktop. I think there are enough people out
there like that to make it viable in that capacity.

However, after spending several years in that situation myself, I eventually
grew tired of it and just wanted things to work, and keep working, and now
I've switched away from Linux on my desktop.

A Linux desktop isn't ever going to be like a Mac, or a Windows machine.

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zdw
Look at how _SLOWLY_ other desktop systems changed vs. Gnome.

For example, is OS X substantially different now than it was 10 years ago? Not
that much - same menu bar, dock, etc.

Similarly, Windows isn't that different since Windows 95 - start "thing", task
bar, etc.

Compare this to desktop Unix. You have lots of choices for everything, and
things tend not to have a mismatch of interface metaphors, or will change each
version. If it's all going to change or be tweaked, nobody has a chance to
catch up.

Also, OS X tended to attract people who were using Unix on the desktop very
quickly - back the early 2000's your likelyhood of having a PC laptop that
would come out of sleep properly when running Linux was very hit or miss. OS X
machines (PPC at the time) worked nearly flawlessly. This alone brought so
many people over that it isn't even funny.

The weird thing is that Unix tends to be decently consistent on the CLI. Most
of the time, a -r will get you recursive behavior, and a -v will get you
verbose mode. Not so on the desktop...

~~~
mariusandreiana
Your comment reminds me of this article written 10 years ago:
<http://freecode.com/articles/too-much-free-software>

------
nonamegiven
I think he's right, for desktops that try to do a lot, or for people who
expect their desktops to do a lot. Gnome and Unity and KDE try to do too much,
if you want what they're trying to do you might think of Windows or Mac and
ssh to a VM or a server. That's fine.

My own view of the linux desktop is just something to give me nicely presented
terminals and a very wee bit of eye candy. I use Lubuntu for that. Some urxvt
terminal windows, a nice basic graphical browser and imap client, I'm good to
go. I don't care if I can watch a movie or not (I can), most of the sound I
want plays and never stops working (can't play midi for some reason, meh).

The tool chain he talks about is right here.

I want minimal things on the desktop, and Linux does that, minimal things,
really well. Especially with something like Lubuntu or vanilla LXDE, it's a
really nice implementation of the screen or tmux idea.

------
killerpopiller
I just switched from ubuntu (after 8years) to macosx (iMac) and I am
disappointed. My Mom uses Ubuntu since 4years now btw., even her Canon printer
works.

Macs don't just work.

I wanted to sftp into my servers. It took me 3 different tuts to implement a
feature linux just have. The CiscoVPN still not working for me, needs a shared
secret, which linux didn't.

And then the finder, wtf? I couldn't believe it - no tabs, no split view -
it's 2013 apple.

iCloud is not intertwined with filesystem as Ubuntu One shows - right click
files/folders and sync it.

And the keyboard-layout is borderlining ridiculous- let's just make it
different than all other established OS do. Key "End" and "Pos1", instead
those 4 (page)up/down keys just seem to jump to absolut end/start. @-kymbol on
L - why? Pipe-symbol, lets just hide that.

~~~
gte910h
I know many people use total finder instead of the native one.

Everyone I know who does serious computer work uses brew for stuff like cli
sftp

iCloud is quite meh

------
emeraldd
I've run Linux exclusively for the last 10 years or more both at home and on
work machines. The last 6~7 of that have been various install of Gentoo. I'll
admit that I run into issues every so often with a broken upgrade or some
other little thing that I need, but overall, I've found that the machine just
works when I need it too. Of course, I'm not looking to change things every
time I turn around either. Once I have a configuration working smoothly,
keeping it that way seems much easier on Linux than just about any other
platform I've used, without the Apple walled garden.

~~~
na85
Do you run Gentoo on a laptop or a desktop?

Because my last experience with Gentoo was, to be mild, fucking frustrating.
And that was on a desktop. I would be very afraid to try to run it on a laptop
where thermal tolerances are tighter and battery life is a thing.

~~~
emeraldd
I run it on both, but I don't do much on battery on the laptop.

------
Shorel
I still think he's one of the primary causes of the Desktop Linux failure.

We all would have a standard based on Qt/KDE but his project destroyed that
while offering nothing but another license for years.

------
Executor
This is 2013 - these issues that the author states are very non-existent. I've
used Ubuntu (before their switch to Unity and Amazon search) and Linux Mint
and am happy with my experiences overall.

What the author misses is that it is unprincipled to use closed ecosystems
like Apple since it helps to support them. Vote with your wallet.

------
maheart
Your title is wrong, it's not what he said at all. Why would you write such a
sensationalist title? The quote is "To me, the fragmentation of Linux as a
platform, ..., were my Three Mile Island/Chernobyl"

What he's saying is as clear as day: these are the issues (catastrophes?) that
caused me to leave and not come back.

~~~
bsg75
Its the tile from the article. Its also The Register.

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hdra
Link bait title. So, putting words in other poeple's mouth is what considered
as journalism nowadays?

~~~
bsg75
From TFA: '"To me, the fragmentation of Linux as a platform, the multiple
incompatible distros, and the incompatibilities across versions of the same
distro were my Three Mile Island/Chernobyl," he writes.'

And its from The Register, known for a certain sense of humor. Title as is
from article, minus the caps shouting.

~~~
hdra
Sorry, I didn't mean to say you are putting up a bait link title. I was indeed
referring to the The Register for making something sounds different from what
it actually meant.

That aside, I am not familiar with The Register or its sense of humor, but I
do feel that the article is filled with hyperbole. I guess I just overreacted
because journalism today seems are always filled with way too much spices.

~~~
bsg75
> I guess I just overreacted because journalism today seems are always filled
> with way too much spices.

It is. In this case I appreciate The Register's approach, taking itself none
too serious. Not everyone appreciates it.

------
michaelwww
"Linux just never managed to cross the desktop chasm," he concludes [Xamarin
CTO Miguel de Icaza]. Surely he doesn't consider Ubuntu a failure on the
desktop. Sounds like FUD to me now that he has ramped up his commercial
interests.

~~~
dylangs1030
That's complicated. In one sense Ubuntu has not failed because of how user-
friendly it is. It certainly is the flagship distribution nowadays.

But it's not a success in the context mentioned in the article. It's simply
not as easy to use as a Mac environment.

~~~
michaelwww
But he concludes "Linux just never managed to cross the desktop chasm." Direct
quote in conclusion. That's a far cry from saying Ubuntu is not as easy to use
as a Mac.

~~~
dylangs1030
Do you find Ubuntu as easy to use as a Mac?

~~~
michaelwww
No. But it did manage to cross "the desktop chasm" and it is usable
<http://www.edubuntu.org/about>

------
pragnesh
with ubuntu, situtation is better, one rarely need to fight with binary,
almost everything just work

~~~
dylangs1030
True - to an extent. But things bend or break still. A lot of things don't
work out of the box - video, audio, etc.

And it's still an absolute _pain_ to configure webcam drivers and make audio
work 100% of the time.

~~~
camus
How do OSX manages to make make external sound devices or cameras work out of
the box by the way ? i'm a musician and it is always a pain to install a new
sound card on Windows , on Mac , you just plug it and it works...

~~~
na85
OSX has a very narrow band of hardware and peripherals to worry about
supporting, so they can afford to spend person-hours on device drivers and
compatibility layers.

------
dylangs1030
This is so true. GNOME came a long way for Linux, as did Ubuntu and Canonical.

But there are so many times when you suddenly hit a wall and are immediately
reminded of that time you installed something you really wanted/badly needed
in a few minutes...as opposed to an hour (or more). I'll admit it, I started
to even miss Windows at one point. But I still use Ubuntu and before that,
Debian.

It's truly a beautiful system for understanding what's "under the hood" - but
it's _nowhere near_ accessible to the average user. I think every programmer
should know how to work his way around at least one Linux distro though. In
terms of programming (and server) functionality nothing else compares.

The bottom line is, while I've always enjoyed hacking on Linux the most for
its freedom, it's infuriating to try to debug your own code when your
_computer_ is having its own issues. Sometimes you just want things to work.
And macs _just work_.

~~~
Executor
But the programs in mac suck - consider xcode (or x-crap). Random crashes, a
stupid paranoid public-private key environment (for iphone dev and the horrors
of code signing), groups that don't 1-on-1 map to source folders, etc.

Also finder sucks compared to windows explorer. :)

------
recoiledsnake
Previous discussion <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5327247>

Looks like it was flagged down <http://hnrankings.info/5327247/>

