
To Fix Back Pain, You Might Have To Change The Way You Sit - muzani
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/08/13/636025077/to-fix-that-pain-in-your-back-you-might-have-to-change-the-way-you-sit
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CompelTechnic
If anyone here suspects their mattress is causing them back pain, I have a
mattress buying technique that worked well for me.

Buy a firm or very firm innerspring mattress. This does not have to be
expensive, I got mine at IKEA for $300. Sleep on it a couple nights to find
out if it is too firm for your tastes. Adding a 2 inch thick memory foam
mattress topper can cost about $60 and will take your firmness to about
medium. 3 inches would get you a very soft feel and would cost $100.

Now you have a mattress that won't hardly ever wear out- you can replace the
topper as it wears- and was a good value and is easily adjustable in firmness
depending on your preference. I also added a waterproof mattress protector
sheet, this is probably overkill.

~~~
pcunite
I think your advice would work well.

I've been buying whole beds from one manufacturer (brooklynbedding.com &
dreamfoambedding.com) to find that "sweet" spot for me. I'm on my second bed
and things are getting better but this is wasteful and expensive. Of note, our
bodies change over time, so what is comfortable during the summer (lots of
exercise) might be different during the winter months - also changes that
occur as we age. I think preventing weak muscles from developing around the
spine might be beneficial.

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CPLX
I used to have problems with back pain, neck pain, various aches and pains and
“knots” and so on.

Now I don’t. At all.

The difference is that I started lifting very heavy weights at least twice a
week for about an hour each time. Like a standard strength training or
bodybuilding approach. I’m not actually particularly jacked up, that’s a
pretty laid back pace.

My issues with back pain are now just completely gone. If I have to take more
than about 10 days off they slowly creep back. But a day of deadlifts and
shoulders and so on fixes that.

It’s not science, I have a sample size of one. But it sure seems to make a
positive difference.

~~~
criddell
> I started lifting very heavy weights

I've been thinking about doing this and was wondering how people get started.
Did you hire a trainer? I'm very worried about injury and, as I understand it,
a big part of staying injury free comes down to good form. I think I would
benefit a great deal from having a trainer to get started. Did you?

~~~
bigtunacan
Form is definitely important to preventing injury, but that doesn't mean you
need to hire a trainer. Trainers can be quite expensive, especially when you
are first starting out. Trainers in my experience are a better fit when you
are already pretty serious and need direction to "get to the next level" or
need assistance like rehabilitation therapy.

Most good gyms will have some people on staff that can help you with questions
about good form. If you are unsure about good form, ask someone that works at
the gym if they can come give you a look over and give some pointers.

Also, there is a reason there are mirrors all over in the gyms; it's so you
can watch yourself to make sure you have good form.

One last pointer; start light. Lifting too heavy will lead to bad form and
injuries. A classic example is curls; people lifting too heavy on curls will
throw their back a bit on the lift and injure their back. So start light,
watch your form, and slowly add those weights.

~~~
criddell
This is all great advice, thank you.

> Trainers can be quite expensive

I'm maybe a little embarrassed to admit this, but paying for a trainer will
help me commit. If I'm paying for an hour of time on Thursday morning, I'm
more likely to show up.

~~~
bigtunacan
That's nothing to be embarrassed about. It's hard to commit until you're fit.
Eventually you get to a point where you look forward to going to the gym if
you stay with it long enough.

If you have a good trainer that can help with the commitment issue. If you
have a bad trainer it can make it worse. I've had both. I had one trainer that
wouldn't listen to me and just always pushed to hard; then during a session I
puked from over exertion. I was so angry and embarrassed I didn't go back to
the gym for over 3 months.

Anyway the point there is if you are going to get a trainer then vet them
before you sign an agreement.

A couple of other options to help with commitment is to join a fitness group
or a class like Farrell's
([https://extremebodyshaping.com/](https://extremebodyshaping.com/)).

Some of these have support/accountability groups so if you no show someone is
going to call and ask where you were and in return you do the same thing

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austinjp
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Biomechanics are
only one part of the complex picture regarding back pain.

This article is full of outdated value-laden and fear-inducing language such
as "spine is in an improper position", "should sit better", "stressing their
backs", "think of a disk as a jelly... jelly can squirt out", "bend over
properly". This sort of language has been demonstrated repeatedly to encourage
avoidance behaviours and exacerbate problems.

Of course, a dog has four legs, and some things with four legs are indeed
dogs. Biomechanics are a part of the picture, but only part.

Here's a great summary of the problem:
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736\(18\)30489-6/fulltext)

~~~
comice
article available here as pdf without registration:

[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323920714/download](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323920714/download)

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superasn
I read about this a long time ago in a book by Esther gokhale called lose the
back pain. I think she called it stack sitting iirc.

There was another thing in the book that has really helped me over the years
and it's called the shoulder roll. The way to do it is to roll your shoulders
in counter clockwise motion and leave it when they move back. It really does
help while sitting.

That book was full of such things like hip hinging, walking properly, etc and
pictures incidentally also of Indian men who do hard labor much like the loom
guy in the article.

Here is a relevant video from her:
[https://youtu.be/k1luKAS_Xcg](https://youtu.be/k1luKAS_Xcg)

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salex89
It would be really much more helpful with a proper illustration, instead of
explaining how to sit with words. Or to put it differently: instructions
unclear, leg stuck behind neck.

~~~
muzani
The photo of the man explains it. But agreed that it could be better.

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andygcook
Has anyone had success for trapezius muscle pain and found a good fix? Part of
my problem with sitting at a desk is my shoulders/neck always hurt. I think
the issue is that I need my wrists fully rested on my desk to avoid wrist
pain, which then forces my shoulders to always be outstretched and flexed. I
do have my monitor eye level and a solid adjustable chair. Have bought all
other ergonomic equipment too and now looking into getting a contoured desk
top to help as hopefully the final piece. Would love to hear your experience.

~~~
amelius
I have two tips.

One is yoga, and in particular the "cobra pose", to flex your back in the
opposite direction. You can do it several times a day, also at work.

The other is to increase awareness of your posture. Download a time-lapse
video app for your phone, and make a time-lapse movie of yourself sitting at
your desk during a day. You can show this movie to a therapist, so they can
comment on it.

~~~
YouKnowBetter
Your tip on the timelaps will make its rounds here in the office since many
people suffer and this is an excellent tip to get real help.

Bikram yoga is my poison of choice BTW. I found that really easy for a
starter.

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abrowne
It says "There's a perception that we sit way more than any other culture out
there", and then they say no, the Hadza sit a lot (" 'The Hadza are in resting
postures about as much as we Americans are' "), but if you search for photos
of the Hadza sitting, _they are always sitting on the floor /ground, or
crouching_, not sitting in a chair. That's not the same thing at all!

Then there's a photo of the Indian weaver they mention with the caption "No
special chair required" (compared with the kneeling chair the author had
bought, I guess). But the weaver is sitting on a low, (backless) bench! I've
never seen an office/computer worker sitting like that.

So it's all about how you sit, but never that sitting in _chairs_ might be
(part of) the problem?

~~~
bionsystem
And look at how pianists sit, they stay on a bench similar to the guy in the
picture for hours, often with great posture as well. Pretty sure most office
chairs are terrible.

~~~
misja111
There are a lot of pianists with back problems.

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yboris
Is anyone else similarly frustrated with journalism? This article is 2,300
words - yet it could have transferred the important information in less than
20% of that.

At least the last few paragraphs included the summary: "[it's good when you
are] sticking your butt back and creating this little curve at the lower part
of your spine"

~~~
codingdave
And if this were in a newspaper, they probably would have. But NPR is like the
New Yorker - they are storytellers as much as they are journalists.

~~~
phakding
I enjoy reading the storytelling if it is for an article based on the events.
For example, there were few articles I read about Steele dossier. The articles
did lot of flash back into Steele's early life as MI6 agent and his harassment
in the hands of FSB etc etc. That was a fascinating read. In an article about
science though, I am not looking for a story, I am looking for data and the
conclusions/recommendations.

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mmcgaha
It feels like I am putting too much pressure on my male parts when I do this.
Am I doing it wrong, or could it be the chair that I am using?

Edit: After looking at the picture from the article, it is obvious that the
man has his legs spread wide, and this position is much more comfortable. I
also lowered my chair to bring my elbows back to desk level.

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man2525
This sitting style worked fine for me for a decade. It takes the pressure off
your lower back. However, I'm now starting to get shooting pains where you
least want them since all the weight is on the seat. Sit straight in
moderation, I guess. Sit straight in work seating, slouch in overpadded chairs
maybe.

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WhompingWindows
No discussion of weight loss, injury, mobilization techniques, foam
rolling/self-myofascial release (i.e. self-massage), no discussion of massage
or PT. These are all huge for back pain and the author manages to brilliantly
avoid these while discussing one-on-one sitting training sessions.

The reality for most people is that nearly all of these things can affect
their back pain. Once again, an article attempts to reduce a multivariate
model to a univariate model, reducing many variables to one is simpler but not
more true, just easier to dispense in a news post.

~~~
scott_s
I don't think the evidence for foam rolling or massage is good for long-term
benefits. It feels good and people like it, but I don't think it's associated
with long-term relief.

~~~
WhompingWindows
The article is "To fix back pain", for which regular massage therapy and foam-
rolling have been shown to be beneficial in some ways. More work for longer-
term benefits must be done, however:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637917/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637917/)

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madeuptempacct
Here is what I do, which barely helps (I focus on managing anterior pelvic
tilt):

• Toe-touch stretch to stretch lower back • Kneeling hip flexor stretch •
Glute bridges (I don't do these enough) • Crunches (the "right" kind where you
don't go all the way up) • Rows and deadlifts to keep shoulders back •
Wallsits at work with hips tucked in • Planches at work to help straighten out
core

I still get pain once every few months.

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saturdaysaint
I tried a number of solutions to sitting back pain, and the one that's worked
the best is a $20 cylindrical pillow that attaches to my crappy office chair
with an elastic band. It makes sitting in a slouching position subtly awkward
and subtly encourages me to tuck my tail and sit up, as recommended in this
article.

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dagoat
I suffer from various back ailments. I’d suggest to people that if your back
pain is bad enough, and it’s been around a while. Provided you can afford it,
see a good orthopedic surgeon and get an MRI (w/o contrast). This will help
diagnose or at least rule out a lot of things - it’s all guess work otherwise

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anentropic
> I've mastered Pilates, increased flexibility and strengthened muscles. At
> one point, my abs were so strong my husband nicknamed them "the plate."

still not doing the right thing

you need to strengthen the lumbar muscles, eg with a specific weight machine
(see Kieser Training, MedX) or other programme that can do that

~~~
anentropic
sitting differently won't help much in the long run unless you fix the
underlying weakness

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sus_007
I think taking frequent breaks during long hour sitting session is also
equally, if not more important than how we sit. I usually set a "Pomodoro
Timer" for 25 minutes and walk around the room for at least a minute during
the breaks.

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kbad1000
Did not understand the tail tucking thing in the article. Can anyone explain
with pictures?

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ben_utzer
Anyone has pictures or examples?

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redmaverick
Has anyone tried massage for lower back pain. Did it help?

~~~
mccada
Massage helps with loosening and relaxing the muscles, usually those muscles
get tight and sore with trying to compensate for posture etc. But I've found
it's just a temporary fix. Things like massage or chiropractors help a little,
but if you don't fix the underlying issues the pain will keep coming back.

You need to combine with either strength training, movement and stretching, or
adjust the way you are sitting to feel longer term relief.

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cosmolev
or to start attending swimming pool

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jasonkostempski
Too long, don't read, sit up straight.

~~~
muzani
That's what the article is telling to be careful with. "Sitting straight"
means the butt is curved, back is straight, not thrusting chest forward. Also
the weight of the body should be supported by the thigh and not the lower
back.

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TaylorAlexander
Honestly it’s my feeling that all this stuff about sitting better is missing
the point. I am beginning to feel like sitting or standing at a desk all day
is just bad for your body. It’s hard for us to swallow and our economy isn’t
set up for this, but I think we just work too much.

