
Is the Touch Bar a gimmick? Two years in, I can answer that - okket
https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/19/touch-bar-a-gimmick/
======
gameswithgo
There are many things in the tech world that have gotten fantastically better
in my lifetime (I am 40). GPUs have been amazing, machine learning has made
great leaps. virtual reality is now semi-awesome and improving.

But a few things have been getting worse. One of the things I most lament is
the move to touch interfaces instead of tactile buttons. See phones, cars,
remote controls (apple tv) and now keyboards on laptops. It is a worse
interface most of the time. I absolutely abhor it. The trend shows no signs of
ever reversing though.

~~~
Nursie
> See phones

A touch keyboard on a phone is _definitely_ worse than a physical one, I'd
agree.

But a phone with a bigger screen is also better than one with a small screen.

And there's definitely some sort of maximum size practical for a handset.

Given these constraints, right now I'll go for the big screen and crappy input
method. Even though it annoys me a lot and typing on it is painful, I think of
the choices available to get a physical keyboard on there (larger phone,
smaller screen) I'd take what we have now.

~~~
a13n
The nice thing about a touch keyboard on your phone is you can swipe, which is
way faster than tapping.

------
martinraag
Inspired by a blog post, which I think made rounds on HN as well, I customised
my Touch Bar using a Mac app called BetterTouchTool.

Now I have shortcuts to my most used apps on the left, a Now Playing display
connected to Spotify in the middle and audio controls (including a volume
slider that you don't have to expand first to use) on the right.

This setup is always displayed, regardless of the app currently on the
foreground. This means the controls are once again in a predictable place for
my fingers and has made using the touch bar a much more pleasant experience.

------
nikivi
I love it. I programmed it to show my current TODO task, when I am on break as
well as my battery and time. So I basically replaced my menu bar with it.

[https://github.com/nikitavoloboev/my-mac-
os/tree/master/btt](https://github.com/nikitavoloboev/my-mac-
os/tree/master/btt)

------
byteCoder
I miss a real ESC key. I can’t tell if I’ve pressed it or not, which is
problematic when using vi and touch typing. Haptic feedback would be a nice
add-on to make it a little more tolerable.

Also, Apple’s default configuration with Siri in the upper right was a
horrible design decision. It only took me a few hours of use to decide to
reconfigure the Touch Bar’s layout.

I found it interesting that even an Apple Genius Bar employee was recommending
a third-party app to me: BetterTouchTool.

~~~
ephimetheus
Just remap capslock to escape. It's more convenient for vi anyway.

------
Angostura
To avoid the clickbait:

> "So is the Touch Bar a gimmick? I say yes."

~~~
TrevorAustin
Violating Betteridge's Law of Headlines!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines)

~~~
berbec
"Is the touch bar worth two cents?"

------
beamatronic
I am not a fan of the Touch Bar. I’m one of those who thinks the 2015 MacBook
Pro is the epitome of human achievement.But that being said, one thing that is
cool about the Touch Bar is when you are viewing a video and it puts a
“smeared” thumbnail onto the Touch Bar making it easy to visually seek. That’s
really useful sometimes.

~~~
snuxoll
I really like my 2015 MBP, but outside the dated hardware in comparison I
still think the 2012 model was "the best". Yes, it was thicker and heavier -
but I didn't have to worry about buying as much RAM as I thought I'd ever need
at purchase time, or storage for that matter (because while OWC sold
replacement SSD's for the rMBP they were the only vendor, why Apple didn't
adopt M.2 when it was released is beyond me).

Hell, Dell managed to put SODIMM slots + standard M.2 in the XPS 15 and at
it's thickest it's still thinner than the 2015 MBP. You can't even argue that
Apple does things for the sake of size when the competition beats them on it
while maintaining upgradability.

One day I hope Apple brings back a _proper_ MBP, because at this point I don't
buy their products for the hardware but because it's the only sane choice for
a *NIX-based workstation that doesn't require I constantly mess with things or
give up loads of software to use.

------
writeslowly
I find the touchbar kind of clunky to use (like the author), but I believe
it's partly because it's suffers from a sort of "gorilla arm" problem
ergonomically.

It's a touchscreen, so you can't lay your fingers on the buttons before
pressing something (unless they add pressure-sensitive controls), and you have
to reach across the keyboard, so you can't brace your hand on the computer
chassis while hitting buttons. Instead you have to awkwardly hover your hand
over the touchstrip to use it correctly, which is really awkward

------
vondur
My wife has one, and she only uses the touchID capabilities of the touchbar.
Other than that, she doesn't like it.

~~~
Reedx
Same here. Though it helps a little to customize it - in particular removing
Siri from the bar, heh. No more accidentally calling Siri. Another improvement
was realizing that you can change volume/brightness with one continuous move
(touch -> hold -> slide).

In any case, I'd like to keep Touch ID, but drop the rest.

~~~
beamatronic
I would like touch ID if it worked more than about half of the time. I don’t
understand how it can just go dark and just not be responsive at all.

------
mthoms
I'm still not in love with it, but there are two things that make the touchbar
much more tolerable.

BetterTouchTool and HapticKey.

The advantages of BTT are obvious but HapticKey has been a really pleasant
surprise. It gives every interaction with the touchbar haptic feedback. I now
use the touchbar much more frequently.

------
baxtr
I’m I the only one who is neutral or even slightly positive about the Touch
Bar? I definitely can’t understand why so many people hate it. Take the two
points of the article: 1) he uses an external keyboard 80-90% of the time, so
he doesn’t care. Well, it’s called Laptop for a reason. 2) errors: I’ve been
using the bar for quite a while and wouldn’t say the error rate is any higher
than for any other key on my keyboard. I delete a lot of text because I hit
the wrong key on the physical keyboard

I wonder if I’m the only one who doesn’t understand where all the hate is
coming from

~~~
zzzcpan
It's physically impossible for it to be better and faster to use than the
keyboard. People who spend a lot of time on computer interaction care about
wasting too much of it and of course hate it. Those people who learn keyboard
shortcuts for all the software they use.

------
frou_dh
Not every iteration of a beloved product series ends up a classic. This is a
down period for the MBP. I hope the clout of some decision-maker within Apple
has taken a hit.

~~~
rhardih
It's a down period closing on three years, and Apple have yet to even indicate
a change of course.

------
0xCMP
I would be surprised if they don't start phasing it out. This along with the
keyboard issues are major reasons I won't just buy a new MBP today.

------
NoblePublius
I use a new basic 13” MBP because the Touch Bar is such garbage. God willing
Apple releases a 15” model with no Touch Bar later this month.

~~~
mathewsanders
I’m in the same place with my personal laptop, however I did use a work-issued
15” with touchbar for a couple months before changing jobs and I actually
liked the touchbar shortcuts for Xcode because it exposed stuff that for some
reason I’ve never been able to remember the keyboard shortcut. Everything else
(especially changing volume) I remember being a pain in the ass

------
dean177
I like having touch id and the brightness / volume sliders and do miss those
on my non-touchbar laptop, but thats all i use it for.

------
photigragraphy
Having used a touchbar MacBook Pro for the last year daily (both for
developing and casual use) I also agree with the article. For the most part I
ignore it as I usually have a tethered monitor and keyboard setup. However for
those times when I do work directly off the keyboard I more often than not
accidentally hit a button (the worst being accidentally triggering a build and
being tied up for 10 seconds trying to frantically cancel).

I think it would transcend gimmick into useful feature if they added haptic
feedback of some kind when it is used. I have plenty of memorized keyboard
shortcuts so that I do not need to avert my eyes from the screen when typing,
something that the touchbar requires to actually properly use. With some kind
of physical feedback I would be more easily able to integrate it's use into my
workflows, especially so if you could customize haptic feedback based on
virtual buttons.

~~~
Klathmon
I was surprised they didn't use force touch from the iPhone as the way you
interface with it.

It would feel so much better if you had to _click_ the buttons, and it would
cut down accidental brushes against it to basically nothing.

In fact, they nailed the haptic feedback on the macbook pro's touchpad so
well, i'm still shocked they aren't doing more with it. A touchscreen that has
buttons that only "click" when you click right on them, or being able to drag
your finger slowly over the pad and feel "taps" when you hit an edge of
something. I'm sure there's something i'm missing on why they aren't using it
more, but it seems like they have all the ingredients for an awesome
experience but just aren't using them all together!

------
aequitas
I fully agree. Even though I don't own a touchbar MBP. I even choose to go
with the older model because the touchbar could not be incorporated into my
current workflow, even if it was great, as there is no separate keyboard with
integrated touch bar (and frankly it would be to expensive if it was).

------
Justsignedup
I wish I had an option to buy a 15 inch mbp without a touchbar.

~~~
beamatronic
Agree. I found out that the small MacBook Pro without the Touch Bar still has
an escape key and still has a headphone jack! So that is at least something to
be excited about.

------
mFixman
The author used the touch bar for two years and didn't think of removing the
Siri button he accidentally clicked so much, or of adding volume controls to
the expanded touch strip.

This review is worthless.

~~~
choward
That's what I want to do: configure something that I used to not have to
configure before. The touchbar replaced a row of keys that was fine before and
required no extra effort. Once you configure something and it's no longer the
default then you have to reconfigure every one you use or you have an
inconsistent experience. I'm okay with this for many things but for a keyboard
is ridiculous.

------
kmlx
the biggest issue i’ve had with the touch bar was touching it by mistake.

i solved it by having a static set of buttons and an app that vibrates the
touchpad when i touch the bar.

the touch bar is the force touch of macbooks.

------
onemoresoop
It is a gimmick to satisfy novelty seekers. But it creates problems for old
time users, it messes with muscle memory and having to look down is downright
unproductive, it steals microseconds and takes you out of the context for a
fraction of time. While kids love this, I know that it's less deficient than
tactile buttons that are always there!

However, I think this could be great for new users, it is intuitive if you're
new to computers: kids and old people who were never power users.

------
Xixi
I agree with the article. When I bought my MacBook Pro I was actually rather
enthusiastic about the Touch Bar, and very cautious about the butterfly
keyboard. Two and a half years later I love the Butterfly keyboard and dislike
the Touch Bar. I don't _hate_ it, but I'd rather have the physical function
keys back.

------
bitwize
My new work laptop has an idiot bar. It's constantly offering me unwanted
autocomplete items and the like. I have sensitive peripheral vision and am
easily distracted by "squirrels" that lie outside my field of focus, and that
fucking bar is like a constant squirrel generator. Thanks, Apple.

~~~
j_koreth
You can set it to just show your function keys too.

~~~
bitwize
If you have to _set_ your _keyboard_ to _not distract and annoy you_ ,
somebody somewhere fell off the good industrial design train.

------
shshhdhs
Short answer: yes, especially when the author has the laptop on the desk with
a wireless keyboard/trackpad.

~~~
rhacker
Yeah that's all I was thinking about - what about for people like me that's in
front of the laptop 100% of the time?

------
sigi45
I love it for brightness and volume control.

Besides that, it would be really cool if i could program it with microapps.
Temperature would be cool and/or clock and upcoming events.

Otherwise i'm not using its app specific features. Just realised that there is
a fav button when i have chrome open.

------
sxp62000
I have a feeling that Apple has been testing the feasibility of adding
multitouch to OSX with the Touch Bar gimmick.

Physical controls are so much better! I mean just look at the things musicians
and DJs are doing everyday with a keyboard, sliders, dials and a little
practice.

------
village-idiot
The touchbar is a gimmick, but that’s far from the worst sin of that laptop.
For me the credit goes to that keyboard being complete and utter garbage.
Typing on it cramps my hands up really badly, and instantly makes me want to
go back to my Ergodox.

------
sicnus
Yes it's a gimmick, I knew the second I saw it. I hate it. It is a nightmare
when using VIM. Ugh... When my work said they were going to buy me a MacBook
Pro I was stoked. When I found it came with that crap... _cringe_

------
carlospwk
The TouchBar has its uses but I think gimmick status has been confirmed since
it never made its way to external Apple keyboards. Like the author, my MBP is
mostly docked so I can’t actually use it. That being said, I managed to create
useful shortcuts with BetterTouchTool. There is potential.

------
aetherson
You can, and very much should, remove the Siri button.

------
redial
Yes. Two years in and it is only available in one out of six models; even
Apple has no faith in it.

------
xoa
I think a real fundamental issue (and one that has led to major Apple blowups
before too, albeit impacting fewer users) is that Apple made it a zero-sum
game unnecessarily, and one not following a strict-superset pattern. They
_forced_ an either-or adversarial situation, which of course will drive up
emotions more since it by definition dramatically raises the stakes for how
useful the new thing must be.

It's true that simplicity is itself a virtue, and cutting old stuff is often
at least as important as adding new stuff. It has too often been the case in
the tech world that there is always a push for adding new features but not for
subtracting old ones at the same time. This has and will continue to cause
anger and has been a bone people have picked with Apple since the start of the
modern era with the iMac, yet has served them well.

However any virtue can be taken too far or become a bromide, applied as a
superficial cultural practice without an understanding of the foundation that
previously made it work. Take Apple's aggression on ports for example: a lot
of people are (with some justification) upset about having all TB3 ports and
thus needing a lot of adapters for older gear. But at the end of the day TB3
is a superset of what came before and then some, it can do everything the
older ones did, and the USB-C form factor is genuinely good. How exactly that
plays out long term and whether 10 years later everything uses it and it will
have all been worth it can be debated, but nothing is _lost_. But the touch
bar simply lacks the features of tactile feedback and muscle memory the
function keys offered, so it's not a superset, it's a tradeoff. It offers
something new, but it also takes something important away. So whatever is new
can't just be "oh that's kind of nice sometimes" and get an easy on-ramp with
users, it must immediately be so good it justifies losing what they had
before. The Touch Bar doesn't meet that standard, and worse suffers from the
fundamental issue of attention requirement. Granted it's not entirely useless,
but I don't see how it could ever meet the same ROI particularly for a pro
system given that it doesn't really seem to support productivity scaling.

Going back to the start the big tragedy is it's not as if there isn't plenty
of vertical space in even a 13" (or 11" for that matter) system on the
opposite-screen surface. There was no need to get make it zero-sum, they could
have just offered the Touch Bar as a new feature above the function keys. If
they had all the angst would have been avoided, it would have been something
cool and occasionally useful, and since nobody would lose anything that's all
it'd need to be to justify itself. Sure there'd be some grumbling about BOM
but that's pretty minor in the scheme of things for these systems.

Incidentally I think this same effect has happened elsewhere for Apple.
Consider the reception of the Mac Cube vs the Cylinder Mac, which was
effectively the Cube 2. Both tried to do an Apple take on an SFF system, which
in the PC world are quite popular, and tried to cram a lot in. Neither
ultimately was very successful. But the Cube had some fond users and was
generally regarded as "well that's pretty neat even if I don't want one",
whereas the Cylinder was awful. I think that's because with the Cube Apple
kept the Power Mac. Nobody was forced to use it, so only those who wanted it's
unique tradeoffs got it and everyone could be happy. If Apple had killed the
Power Mac and said "oh yeah the Cube is totally what all you want" the
reaction would have been at least as much (or more) then what happened when
they killed the Mac Pro. I appreciate what a horror the 90s were for product
line proliferation, and I still hate going to a lot of OEM sites and trying to
navigate their multi dimensional product matrixes and a hundred minor
variations of the same basic thing. But Apple has cut so much that they've
reached meat and bone in some cases and have created problems for themselves
unnecessarily and without getting any payoff in return.

------
bg4
Yes.

------
nailer
Apple's in an awkward spot right now: macOS isn't being iterated on, iOS is
where they're putting all their engineering effort, and they're marketing iOS
devices s being better than computers.

There is no way they will retrofit proper touch into macOS. Instead, in a few
years time, you'll run xCode on an iOS device like any other creation tool,
with the whole lifecycle on iOS.

