

Jonathan James and Aaron Swartz-Two Obituaries One Prosecutor  - cekanoni
https://thehacktimes.com/jonathan-james-and-aaron-swartz-two-obituaries-one-prosecutor/
Worth remembering and reading!
======
stephen_g
There are some really strange ideas here -

> "He was accused of stealing the International Space Station’s source code
> controlling critical life-sustaining elements worth $ 1.7 million."

This makes for an exciting sentence, but doesn't make sense - as far as I can
tell he didn't deprive them of their $1.7 million dollar code (I assume he
just made a copy), and there is absolutely no opportunity cost here - it's not
like he had a space station or was going to give it to someone else with a
space station, stopping NASA getting revenue that they may had...

I find it very hard to see any way that that could be called 'stealing' or why
the $1.7 million figure is relevant at all...

That doesn't excuse messing around in other people's systems of course.

> "His actions put NASA on hold for three weeks, costing them $41,000 because
> they had to check and of course fix the system."

Surely it was NASA's bad security practices that cost them $41,000 - do they
really think if he hadn't found the problem, they wouldn't ever have had to
fix their insecure systems?

~~~
rayiner
> Surely it was NASA's bad security practices that cost them $41,000 - do they
> really think if he hadn't found the problem, they wouldn't ever have had to
> fix their insecure

Why is blaming the victim so uniquely acceptable when we're talking about
hackers?

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> Why is blaming the victim so uniquely acceptable when we're talking about
> hackers?

"Don't blame the victim" comes from the context of sexual assault. Blaming the
victim for dressing provocatively is unjustifiable because dressing
provocatively is not misconduct.

Maintaining insecure internet-facing servers _is_ professional misconduct.
Someone else's wrong doesn't retroactively make your wrong right.

~~~
rayiner
I left my car door unlocked once in my apartment's parking garage, and someone
stole my iPhone out of it. Am I engaging in professional misconduct? Maybe the
garage is, for failing to take adequate security precautions, but not me.

~~~
dctoedt
> _Am I engaging in professional misconduct? Maybe the garage is, for failing
> to take adequate security precautions, but not me._

Depends on what you mean by "professional misconduct." For lawyers like you
(and me) the analysis by a bar-association ethics committee might be fairly
strict. A lawyer's smartphone likely contains non-public client information
such as contact info and perhaps even documents. In that case, leaving the
phone (or worse, a laptop) in an unlocked car might be regarded as a failure
to take prudent precautions to protect client confidences. That in turn could
mean exposure for the lawyer, even though the thief was clearly the most-
culpable.

ADDED: The same, negligence-based analysis might apply to security
professionals as well: Even though others might be equally- or more-culpable,
a failure to take prudent measures in accordance with "industry standards" (a
vague term that would have to be [expensively] litigated) might lead to civil
liability. See, e.g., _The T.J. Hooper_ , a 1932 case in which the court held
that a tugboat's failure to have reliable radios on board was negligent, even
though that was not the prevailing practice among other tug operators [1].
It's a case with which all first-year law students (presumably) become
familiar.

[1][http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/T.J._Hooper](http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/T.J._Hooper)

------
themartorana
We've talked about prosecutorial misconduct, trumped up charges,
classification of computer hobbyists as terrorists, 7 felonies a day, hyper-
aggressive (and borderline illegal) pushes to force settlements pre-trial, and
so on, and so on, innumerable times here on HN.

It's no surprise that unchecked power to ruin individual lives no matter the
severity of supposed crimes would lead to things like this. Either we should
be surprised this doesn't happen more often, or shouldn't be surprised when it
continues to happen.

And I certainly have zero faith that we'll see federal prosecutors reigned in
any time soon.

~~~
sobkas
>borderline illegal

It's only illegal when someone is willing to prosecute you for that.

------
fsloth
Could someone explain the dynamics and incentives of this aggressive
prosecution to a non-US person? One could draw the conclusion that the
prosecutors are after political points for going after "easy prey" in an
impressive sounding case but I have no idea if this 'opportunist prosecutor'
model represents any practical facet of reality.

~~~
a3n
Resume building. A better annual review.

We are merely resources to those in law enforcement, sources of tickets,
arrests, asset seisure, prosecution and incarceration.

------
Maxious
"Carmen Ortiz, Boston Marathon [and Aaron Swartz] Case Prosecutor, Known For
Aggressive Record" [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/21/carmen-ortiz-
boston...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/21/carmen-ortiz-
boston_n_3129232.html)

~~~
asmithmd1
She ruined the life of a small town doctor who was acquitted of all charges
after living under a cloud of suspicion during a 7 year "investigation"

[http://needham.wickedlocal.com/article/20150515/NEWS/1505171...](http://needham.wickedlocal.com/article/20150515/NEWS/150517160)

------
csandreasen
So, Jonathan James was indicted and accepted a plea bargain in 2000 for 6
months house arrest and two years of probation. He then committed suicide 8
years later. How can you rationally come to the conclusion that his death is
the prosecutor's fault?

~~~
lovelearning
As I understand it, he was suspected of involvement in the 2007 TJX case and
allegedly harassed for it.

“I honestly, honestly had nothing to do with TJX. I have no faith in the
‘justice’ system. Perhaps my actions today, and this letter, will send a
stronger message to the public. Either way, I have lost control over this
situation, and this is my only way to regain control.” James’s suicide note.

~~~
csandreasen
But he was never charged, so there was no prosecutor involved.

EDIT: Now that I'm looking a little further into the case...

He was apparently raided by the FBI two weeks prior to the suicide during an
investigation in the TJX hack. During the raid, the police found another
suicide note that James had written several years prior. His suicide note[2]
spends the first page and a half talking about something that's been redacted,
then the next page and a half talking about some background on the TJX case,
denying that he had any connection and noting the fact that one of the other
suspects (Chris) had been arrested and subsequently released. He believed that
meant that Chris had tried to pin the blame for the hack on him, and he
believed that the FBI would be looking to arrest him for a crime he didn't
commit.

[1]
[http://www.wired.com/2009/07/hacker-3/](http://www.wired.com/2009/07/hacker-3/)

[2]
[http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2009/07/jamesn...](http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2009/07/jamesnote.pdf)

------
chris_wot
And what of Carmen Ortiz?

------
Arzh
Whenever hackers talk about the systems the break into it just reads as a
rapist saying "Well if she didn't wear such a short shirt I wouldn't have done
it." They know what they are doing is illegal and they do it anyway just for
the hell of it. I have no sympathy for that kind of asshole.

------
DanBC
> Years after the suicide of two hacker geniuses, Jonathan James and Aaron
> Swartz, one question is still circling the online community: How come those
> two hackers both committed suicide after being charged by the FBI, and what
> is even more interesting, they had to deal with the same federal prosecutor?
> Two obituaries one prosecutor?

In America one person dies by suicide every 13 minutes.

I'm kind of surprised that only two people being prosecuted by her have died
by suicide. The computer industry is mostly people with some risk factors
(male; single), although they do have some protective factors (ability to
solve problems; money; health insurance).

[https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-
figures](https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-figures)

[http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/Suicide-
DataSheet-...](http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/Suicide-
DataSheet-a.pdf)

[http://www.cdc.gov/Features/PreventingSuicide/](http://www.cdc.gov/Features/PreventingSuicide/)

I am particularly interested in anything that can help men seek help,
especially for suicide or other mental health problems. (Please do send me
email if you're aware of good work). I like these Australian sites:

They don't censor the word on their website:
[http://softenthefckup.com.au/](http://softenthefckup.com.au/)

[http://www.beyondblue.org.au/](http://www.beyondblue.org.au/)

~~~
facepalm
"In America one person dies by suicide every 13 minutes."

Odd statistic to cite. Could you help us out and tell us what percentage of
young people commit suicide?

~~~
extra88
The first link had some age-based information [1]. The rate for people 15 to
24 is 10.9 per 100,000. The highest rate is people 45 to 64, at 19.1. The next
age bracket they use is 25 to 44, a much broader range which includes both
Jonathan James (25) and Aaron Swartz (27), it's rate appears to be
15.something.

[1] [https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-
figures...](https://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/facts-and-
figures#eztoc667_0_1)

