
The Art of Getting a 3 Letter Domain Name - bavidar
http://blog.lob.com/post/55544977604/the-art-of-a-3-letter-domain-name
======
CyrusL
It would be cool if you were more reserved with your usage of "squatted" to
describe domain names. Amateurs commonly use it to mean "he has something I
want," but in domainer lingo, a squatted domain is used specifically for
trademark infringement:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Pro...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act)
.

I think it's an important distinction to make when describing domain name
disputes.

~~~
markdown
In general lingo, domainer = squatter.

If you bought a domain name for the sole purpose of sitting/squatting on it
until you can find a buyer who will pay significantly more than you did, than
you're a squatter.

~~~
ohashi
Squatter implies no legitimate rights. I've bought a lot of things with the
sole purpose of selling it for more. Nothing wrong with that.

~~~
markdown
> Squatter implies no legitimate rights

We aren't talking about land here, we're talking about domain names. A domain
squatter has legitimate right to the domain names (s)he owns. Domain squatting
is neither illegal, nor contrary to any rules.

I happen to despise the practice, and wish ICANN implemented measures to
prevent it occurring.

> I've bought a lot of things with the sole purpose of selling it for more.

Try buying a lot in a modern real-estate development in a developed nation and
see if you can sit on it. They won't let you, because your empty lot lowers
the value of all the properties in the vicinity. They won't let you just throw
up a lean-to and call it a building either. You'll actually have to build a
proper house that not only follows all relevant codes but that actually looks
good.

Generally speaking, domain squatting is a shitty practice by shrewd business-
people who found a way to conjure big bucks out of thin air... ie. without
creating any value whatsoever.

> Nothing wrong with that.

That's like, your opinion, dude.

------
adventured
My suggestion would be to seek out a generic tld other than .com (unless you
have a lot of money to burn). Here's Google's list of what they consider to be
a generic tld:

[https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/1347922?hl=en](https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/1347922?hl=en)

I recently picked up a useful .fm three letter domain for a new service. It
perfectly matched the service, and I think the negatives of alternative
generic tld's can be overcome very well these days.

~~~
larrys
Let me put this as clearly as I can. This is very bad advice. I've been in
this business since 1996 and I deal with end users and customers on both the
buying and selling side. For everything from a standard domain registration
(at normal pricing that you can get at your registrar) to high value sales
(let's say hundreds of thousands of dollars).

Anything but .com is almost always going to be problematic and will more than
likely cause problems. You can get a reasonably priced .com you just have to
be creative.

Let me give you an actual sale today that I handled.

I bought both the .com and the .org of the same domain name for a customer
(someone who sold their company to google iim)..

The .com went for $70,000. I was able to get the .org for $1,500.

Domains are all over the place and despite what the OP says (I will try to
address that in a separate post) there are domains that can be had and sellers
who are reasonable.

Getting anything but a .com for a serious site is going to be a problem. If
anything makes more sense to tack on a word to what you want (pre or suffix)
than it does to get anything but a .com

~~~
adventured
It's not very bad advice. I've been building web businesses for 16 years. You
have no advantage over me on time.

The end of the dominance of .com was always inevitable, and is already
occurring. Sites as varied as ask.fm, twitch.tv, minecraftwiki.net, foods.tv,
formspring.me, php.net, about.me, imageshack.us, last.fm, mega.co.nz,
rapidgator.net, popads.net, speedtest.net, ustream.tv, prchecker.info, who.is,
all.biz, jsfiddle.net, justin.tv, bit.ly, scoop.it, snap.do and vine.co are
proving that every day (or already proved it in the past). And that's ignoring
the rest of the vast array of .net and .org sites. There will be a lot more
big alt sites in the next five years. Instagram didn't start out as
instagram.com. Clearly Vine didn't need the .com to succeed at all. Different
use case than your typical 1998 .com? You bet, and that's exactly the future.

The proof is already in place: you don't need a .com to succeed any longer.

Among the top 5,000 global sites, .com addresses are in the minority now.
Apparently other entrepreneurs and businesses in other countries are also
having no problems building global, world class businesses without using .com.

In fact, over the last decade as the web has become dominated by non-English
speaking and non-American businesses and users, I'd argue that everybody
outside of America is already very accustomed to the use of alternative
domains. Just another reason .com is the past.

Saying that something is going to be problematic, doesn't mean that it is
actually so.

Only $70,000 for that .com? You mean in other words very few startups could
actually afford that. You're talking about an elite class of startups - the
top 1% - once you're talking about spending $70k on a domain.

~~~
marban
You're mixing up the importance of a .com for an app- vs. web-centric
business.

~~~
adventured
No, I'm talking about the future. The .com argument is about the past.

And I've listed tons of web centric sites that have had no problems succeeding
without .com.

~~~
marban
Perhaps for a web-savvy audience/product but thisisthefutu.re wouldn't pass
the bumper sticker test for a regular user.

------
Fjslfj
Disappointing. There's no discussion of how much they paid, or how they
actually got their domain name. From the article, it makes it seem as though
they are in a lease to buy situation.

~~~
larrys
Really good point which I had thought of as well. I will try and see if I can
find out the price. (Hopefully this thread will still be going when I find the
answer).

Found this (in the mean time) (doesn't mean it was posted legitimately):

[https://flippa.com/2939130-ultra-premium-3-letter-
dictionary...](https://flippa.com/2939130-ultra-premium-3-letter-dictionary-
word)

------
GoodIntentions
Three things jump out at me in that post:

1\. Using any online 'appraisal service' or what have you as a pricing
guideline is not something you can depend on. There have been numerous tools
like this and sometimes their results are so wrong it is funny.

2\. People who own domains get do get a lot of mail, often of the "let me scam
you" variety. Standing out from these is the trick.

3\. A good domain name is worthless without good content. Don't pick a bad
name, by all means, but what lives at that name is much more important than
the name imho.

~~~
larrys
"Standing out from these is the trick."

It's not hard to stand out. You just have to be realistic about the price you
are willing to pay.

Domain sellers are all over the map. Some are highly rational and some are
gamblers. The gamblers are willing to wait for the big fish to come along and
pass up an offer that could be 5 times the amount that another domain owner
would accept.

Agree with the domain appraisal service comment it can easily mislead you in
either direction. The problem is if you know nothing about this you won't know
which direction that was.

------
cliveowen
The domain name market is completely broken. It shouldn't be allowed to
register a domain name if a legitimate business isn't going to use it. It's
just a corrupt practice and I feel sorry for everyone who plays ball and
shells out top-dollar for this things.

------
greenyoda
Duplicate. Prior discussion here:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6048851](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6048851)

------
ChrisNorstrom
I sold RebelSpirits.com for $500 to a winery business owner last year. We
scanned and emailed each other our drivers licenses and he sent a check for
$500 in the mail. I released the domain to him after I deposited the check.
His check was from a major bank.

Can some one tell me if my method was smart or stupid? What could have gone
wrong other than check fraud?

~~~
GoodIntentions
If someone had stolen ID _and_ checkbook, it might not have been the person
you thought you were dealing with. I don't know if you looked into the winery
/ called it or whatever, but I'd have wanted some way to establish with fair
certainty who I was dealing with beforehand. ( and probably would have
accepted a check like you did given the amount. )

A surprising number of people don't know a check can be pulled back out of
your account weeks after the deposit. Paypal or credit cards aren't much
better. So far as I know using escrow, wire transfer or bank draft are the
only "sure" ways payment can't be revoked

~~~
fsckin
Bitcoin is exceedingly unlikely to be reversed after 6 confirmations (45
minutes or so).

~~~
GoodIntentions
Good point. Dinna think about BC

------
larrys
As someone who both buys and sells domain names (and particularly 3 letter
.com's since 1996) let me point a few things out. I might also mention that I
am the go to guy for a few well known VC's that you have heard of although
that is not my main business at all (although it could be it just doesn't pay
that well compared to other things I spend time on.)

This statement:

"Within a day or 2 we started getting responses. All the responses were the
same and were in the format of “Sure we are willing to sell, we expect a bid
in the mid to low 7 figures."

Is total BS and hyperbole. People in the business can be jerks and
unreasonable for sure but it would be more likely for someone to "ask" for
100k or simply say "domain is not for sale" than to say "7 figures" (2 letter,
possible, 3 letter, specifically "all of the responses", no. Unless of course
you emailed the same people (they may have different email address for the
same owner) and they were pulling your chain.) Exaggeration.

"When the price for a domain you like is really high, consider lease-to-buy
options to give you flexibility."

I never recommend this it's normally a way to make sure you pay an exorbitant
price for a domain.

"Don’t get attached to any domain name. "

Great advice. This is absolutely true.

"When you find something you like, move FAST and close it as soon as possible.
Often times you might not have a second chance."

I can say that I have closed a number of sales by simply making the buyer feel
that someone else wants the same name, coincidentally the same day someone
else inquired! Total bullshit. Good leads are extremely infrequent. Possible
but more likely you are being played with.

"Good domain names get offers many times a week. Think about how you’ll make
your email stand out from the rest."

In general not true. There is no serious bidding war going on for good domain
names every day. There are people for sure that email everyone and anyone with
non serious offers and to people who own many names it appears to be that you
are getting offers all the time. But you might get no inquires on a particular
good domain name in 1 year or 5. The only way you need to stand out is to
appear to be a real buyer and act like a real buyer. Unfortunately if you are
sending a bunch of emails that's going to be hard to do.

"Use domainworth.com to get a rough idea of how much their domain is worth."

Totally meaningless. By the way never try to negotiate with a seller quoting
any estimate value. With very few exceptions means nothing. Very few
exceptions means there are always outlier cases.

"Use instantdomainsearch.com and leandomainsearch.com to help you check your
desired names or come up with new ones.

Both good ideas.

~~~
mietek
> People in the business can be jerks and unreasonable for sure but it would
> be more likely for someone to "ask" for 100k or simply say "domain is not
> for sale" than to say "7 figures" (2 letter, possible, 3 letter,
> specifically "all of the responses", no.

FWIW, here's an email I received when enquiring about a 3-letter domain name:

 _Thank you for your interest in this domain name_

 _This domain name is among our most prized and sought-after domains. It is
the online equivalent of prime, downtown real estate, and we get purchase
inquiries about this domain every week._

 _Based on what comparable domain names are selling for, this domain name
commands a premium price tag in the five-figure and higher price range._

 _This may come as a surprise to you since not everyone is aware that domain
names of this quality regularly sell in this price range (and higher). Please
visit the Domain Name Journal website below to see a current summary of
recently sold domains and their selling prices:_

(omitted)

 _After you’ve viewed the Domain Name Journal Sales Chart (above) and seen the
current selling prices, we’d be delighted to discuss your interest in
purchasing this domain name from us. Also, to avoid giving you ‘sticker
shock’, we want to make sure your domain acquisition budget will support this
domain’s five-figure and higher price range. We’re always respectful of our
customers’ time and try very hard not to waste it with negotiations that can
never get off the ground._

 _If your budget will support the five-figure and higher price range, please
reply with a serious offer to begin the negotiation process with us. Any offer
of less than five-figures won’t be taken seriously by us, and due to the
volume of email we receive, will not be replied to at all. Thank you._

~~~
underwater
Are you sure you talked to a person and not a robot? I'm sure that each and
every domain you ask about is one of their "prized and sought-after" domains.

The "five-figure and higher" line (repeated four times!) is pretty funny. I'm
not sure of any other market where price estimates span multiple orders of
magnitude. It is just a transparent way to get you to name a figure first.

~~~
ddeck
_> The "five-figure and higher" line (repeated four times!) is pretty funny.
I'm not sure of any other market where price estimates span multiple orders of
magnitude. It is just a transparent way to get you to name a figure first._

I presume they are targeting an anchoring effect:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring)

~~~
larrys
Part anchoring and part weeding out people who don't know the value and
setting expectations.

Let me give you an example.

We are getting out bathroom redone. The first step is the contractor is going
to come out and "take a look and get an idea of where we will be at price
wise". He will then (he said) give us a rough idea of the cost. After we hear
that and we look like we are both in the same ballpark he will proceed further
to get an actual design in place and we will get down to specific prices.
There is also anchoring involved in this as well (say he gets us to agree to
30k for the bathroom won't be hard getting us to 35k, right?).

Had the same just happen with putting in a backup generator. Guy on the phone
stated "most systems like you need will cost $15,000". Said "ok". Came out,
job priced out below that he had shot high. Didn't want to waste his time
quoting if we thought the price is merely what you see for the equipment at
Home Depot.

------
larrys
By the way there are plenty of 3 letter .com's that you can buy in the 20k to
40k range. Anyone who is interested can email me and I will point you in the
right direction of people that I know that are selling in that price range.
Below 20k gets a bit more difficult. But possible sometimes.

Wholesale price for people buying crappy 3 letter .com's (that you probably
don't want) is perhaps in the 5k level (but they are not a good set of letters
generally). These people will buy any 3 letter .com for 5 to 7k since they
know that if a law firm needs those initials (one that has not opened yet)
they can triple or quadruple the money.

------
bencollier49
I wish there was a rule which freed up a domain as soon as it could be
confirmed as having been bought for profit and nothing else.

Whilst I can get a squatted domain if they're sitting on my trademark, there
are so many great company names which haven't happened because some bugger
bought all the dictionary word combinations and runs ads and a GoDaddy auction
link on them.

Goodness knows how you do that in a way which didn't require huge teams of
people. It'd have to be automated. Anyone got any ideas?

------
jtheory
There's a problem to be solved here -- is there a way to buy/sell domain names
ONLY to people who will actually use them?

I have a bunch of domains that I've registered over the years, with plans for
side projects that haven't yet been realized. Some of them are probably
moderately valuable.

Over the years I've let some expire that I was sure I wasn't going to use, and
those are all registered nowadays... but NONE of them are actually in use.
Just squatted. That's not nice to see.

I've sold a few as well, for reasonable prices, once I was confident that the
purchaser was going to use them -- e.g., wishmash.com. I've had offers for
others where we couldn't work out a deal -- not because I was asking too much,
but because I wanted to sort out a way to ensure the domain was actually used,
not just resold, and that got too tricky.

I'd love a way to have a sort of long-term escrow for a domain name, so I
could let someone use it for an actual project... and if they get some
traction, I'll sell it automatically for a fairly low price, and if they
abandon the project, the domain reverts back to me instead of going to
squatters.

~~~
dcuthbertson
How on earth does one distinguish between someone like yourself, who buys a
domain name with a plan to use it in a project, from someone who just wants to
sit on it until a high bidder comes along?

> I'd love a way to have a sort of long-term escrow for a domain name, so I
> could let someone use it for an actual project... and if they get some
> traction, I'll sell it automatically for a fairly low price, and if they
> abandon the project, the domain reverts back to me instead of going to
> squatters.

How is that different behavior from a squatter? You're just sitting on a
domain until someone comes along who meets your criteria (project traction and
some cash), instead of another's criteria (big bucks, and no cares about how
it will be used).

I don't think there's any reasonable way to vet people who want to buy a
domain. Nor would I want to see a vetting policy established. Part of the
beauty of the current system, is that anyone can buy an unused domain on a
whim.

~~~
jtheory
> How on earth does one distinguish between

By asking them?

> How is that different behavior from a squatter? You're just sitting on a
> domain until someone comes along who meets your criteria

I don't register the domain in the first place unless I have a good idea for
what I'd like to do with it. I'm not registering them to sell... but I
recognize that someone else may well also have a solid project idea, and the
time _right now_ to execute on it.

I'd like a way to graciously give way to those people.

If there is no such way, then I'll just keep the domain until I have the time
to do the project _I_ had in mind.

> Nor would I want to see a vetting policy established.

I think you misunderstood. I don't want a _general_ vetting policy, just a way
for (the minority) of people who feel domains should actually be used, to
transfer domains among themselves.

> Part of the beauty of the current system, is that anyone can buy an unused
> domain on a whim.

Sure, I'm not talking about changing that. I'm just trying to create a third
choice, beyond "I don't have time for my idea yet, so I'll sit on this domain
until I'm ready" vs. "I'll let this domain expire and it definitely will be
squatted when I'm ready." I want a 3rd option that recognizes that _other_
people have project ideas.

------
jval
I think the most important advice I saw here was to not get attached. And this
is probably a basic piece of advice that applies in all negotiations - always
have an alternative (where possible).

I recently got my four letter domain for a very reasonable price when I made
it clear that the domain seller that I was willing to change the name. When
people know that you're an emotional buyer, that's when you get screwed.

------
lnsignificant
I have a two letter .ca if anyone is interested.

~~~
jaredstenquist
nobody is interested in garbage. that's why garbage trucks come by once per
week.

~~~
lnsignificant
That's not very nice, dude...

------
eigenbom
I was stoked to get the two letter domain name bp.io a few years ago, and
hopefully it'll be my online home forever.

------
TazeTSchnitzel
I just searched for my initials, found ajf.net and ajf.com were taken, so I
took ajf.me. No squatters. :)

