
U.S. to let airlines limit service animals on planes - hourislate
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-airlines-pets/no-turkeys-no-possums-u-s-to-let-airlines-limit-service-animals-on-planes-to-trained-dogs-idUSKBN1ZL22K
======
sushisource
I remember being in an airport and having a woman I was sitting next to openly
admit to me that her dog she was bringing on the plane she had "just went
online an registered as an emotional support animal so I can take him with
me". Clearly implying she did not, in fact, require an ESA.

I just remember being so blown away that she assumed a stranger would be 100%
on board with this tactic as to tell me about it unvarnished that I was
stunned into silence.

I love dogs, but you're ruining everything for the people who actually need
service animals.

~~~
allovernow
Probably being downvoted because it's just anecdote, but I've had at least two
friends who shamelessly did the same thing with their dogs. I doubt this is
uncommon given how easy the loophole is to exploit.

~~~
chrisseaton
> I doubt this is uncommon

I've never seen _any_ animal in an aircraft cabin, and I fly a fair bit. How
does it work even when it is completely legitimate? Do you just ask the animal
politely not to go to the toilet for 12 hours or however long? What if they
have an accident? How on earth do you clean that up and deal the smell in a
cramped space?

~~~
reaperducer
_How does it work even when it is completely legitimate_

I've done it with cats. They were required by the airline to have a health
certificate from a vet stating that they were healthy enough to fly, to be
kept in their container at all times, and I had to pay a fee. I think it was
$200 last time.

The vet also supplies tranquilizers to give the animal just before the flight.
That keeps it calm and helps prevent it from needing to use the litter box.

Coast-to-coast isn't a problem. 12 hours? Animals shouldn't fly
intercontinental. There's simply no reason for it.

At one time you could mail a cat. I mailed one from Charleston to New York
using Delta's package service. The fee was less because it went into the cargo
hold, but it still needed documentation from the vet. I don't know if that's
still allowed.

~~~
m463
> The fee was less because it went into the cargo hold

This kills pets all the time due to low temperature. Source: friend who used
to work for the airlines.

~~~
jstarfish
There was a high-profile incident a few years ago where a contender for
"world's largest rabbit" died in the cargo hold. Happens to stowaways too.

As much of an annoyance as animals in the cabin are, the cargo hold is not
conducive to supporting mammalian life.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Could you put them in a special temperature-regulating box? But that would be
bulky and perhaps cruel…

------
stared
It seems that flying with pets in cargo space is not only traumatizing to
animals - it can be deadly: [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/is-taking-
your-pet-on-...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/is-taking-your-pet-on-
an-airplane-worth-the-risk-6241533/).

For me it is hardly surprising that people who love their dogs or cats (and
essentially treat them as family members) would go the extra mile to take them
in the cabin, to ensure their physical and emotional safety. The alternative
is to treat them as a disposable piece of luggage (which IMHO is inhumane and
cruel for a life companion, human or not).

~~~
oliwarner
The rest of us know this. We rediscovered a long-forgotten technique that
keeps the animal safe: we don't take them on a plane at all.

We leave them with friends, in boarding kennels and catteries.

Having your pet with you 24/7 is —for most people— an unnecessary kink, an
expression that we've got too used to getting our own way.

It's not healthy. Get a grip.

~~~
asdff
Sometimes you need to travel with your pet. Unavoidably. Maybe you can't
afford to kennel. Maybe you are moving. There are a thousand variables in this
as to why an animal is brought from one place to another, and the way we do
that long distance is through air travel.

Already it's normalized. No one is protesting in the streets about a cat
aboard a plane.

Screeching infant, however? I'd vote to kennel.

~~~
toasterlovin
> Screeching infant, however? I'd vote to kennel.

Babies are humans and I think most people would agree they should be given
preferential treatment over pets as such.

------
easytiger
Completely ban them [ESA] with no exceptions. It's ludicrous and very
illustrative of a very American mindset. Namely to exploit every possible gap
in any process or system despite the clarity that you are operating outside
the intended scope of it.

I know a woman who flew with her dog as an emotional support animal to assist
with her anxiety. Her day job was as an air stewardess.

The attitude is, if they don't stop you, it's not my fault I can exploit the
system. You see it everywhere in America. Less so in Europe.

Some examples of ridiculous behaviour by the owners:

[https://youtu.be/a5AzlCEagFY](https://youtu.be/a5AzlCEagFY)

[https://youtu.be/jCxE8BskmPE](https://youtu.be/jCxE8BskmPE)

[https://youtu.be/WkcxESqKlno](https://youtu.be/WkcxESqKlno)

[https://youtu.be/AO_mAfYM1Vo](https://youtu.be/AO_mAfYM1Vo)

[https://youtu.be/qJpREAfeluo](https://youtu.be/qJpREAfeluo) @17min

[https://youtu.be/-moq55oH5ro](https://youtu.be/-moq55oH5ro)

[https://youtu.be/GtPRrW3strM](https://youtu.be/GtPRrW3strM) \- yes. It's a
horse

What you won't see on these videos is when the dog or pig needs to crap and
piss. Which it will

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> Completely ban them [ESA] with no exceptions.

And what of the people who need them?

~~~
easytiger
Apparently it's impossible to differentiate between someone who does need them
and someone who is exploiting the system.

Id argue they perhaps don't need them and the whole thing is a farce

------
steelframe
I've fostered a dog that was fully trained as a service dog, but it was
disqualified from being put into service because the vet found a hip
dysplasia. The dog never pulled on its leash while I was walking it, and it
immediately obeyed a bunch of commands (come, sit, heel, side, quiet, leave
it, etc.) without the need for me to repeat. When I eventually got a dog of my
own, I worked hard to train it because it was just so awesome to have a dog
that was well behaved.

The last time I saw a "service dog" on a plane, it looked like it weighed
about as much as its owner. As soon as the plane door opened after landing,
the dog lunged toward the door, banging back and forth in the aisle. The owner
could barely hold it back, and they weren't giving any commands to the dog.
The flight attendant made a snarky comment, "What a wonderfully trained
service animal!" I'm sure they know exactly how a genuine service animal
behaves, and they are probably completely fed up with the widespread abuse of
the service animal exemption.

~~~
kohtatsu
This jumped out at me like an easily solvable problem because of what you
describe; we could have dogs complete an obedience test to earn the service
dog designation.

I didn't even think pets could be "upgraded" to service dogs, I figured they
all came from licensed training camps.

~~~
AdamJacobMuller
Not that I would do this, but, my dog would easily pass any of your service
dog tests and he's only one year old.

While there's lots of abuse by people bringing obviously untrained and
unqualified animals on a flight, there is just as much abuse by people who
take well trained dogs on flights and simply don't want to subject them to
cargo transport -- the abuse is just much less noticed for obvious reasons.

Personally, I would prefer to simply adjust the system so that any
sufficiently capable dog can travel in the cabin for a fee, which would of
course be waived for people with disabilities.

~~~
amerine
I find your solution wonderful, but I’m curious how to detect such trained
dogs. Tests? Certifications? Licenses? Who’s and where from?

~~~
throwawayjava
There's a "canine good citizen" test:

[https://www.akc.org/products-services/training-
programs/cani...](https://www.akc.org/products-services/training-
programs/canine-good-citizen/)

It's a pretty low bar for any dog that doesn't have major behavioral issues;
I'd expect any dog with a non-dumbass owner and a good home from birth to be
able to pass. Even many hard-core rescues could probably pass after a few
years in a stable home.

A variant of this test for airline travel would probably not be too hard to
design.

One of the problems with making any particular test mandatory is that the test
operator can price gouge and then genuine service dogs will become even more
expensive. So, such a rule would have to be paired with price controls on the
test.

------
nordsieck
My understanding is that service animals are already limited to just dogs and
miniature horses. It sounds like this is just allowing airlines to ignore ESAs
as a privileged category.

Edit:

After some digging, apparently the Aviation Carrier Access Act[1] does not use
the ADA definition for service animals, but instead uses its own definition,
which is more expansive [2].

___

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Carrier_Access_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Carrier_Access_Act)

2\. [https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-
consumer...](https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer-
protection/service-animals-including-emotional-support-animals)

~~~
koolba
In case you’re like me and didn’t believe that “miniature horses” are a real
thing:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_horse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_horse)

Man those things are cute! No idea how you’d travel with one in a cattle class
US economy seat though.

~~~
frosted-flakes
They sit in the bulkhead row in front of the person.

There's more in this NYT article about miniature horses being used as service
animals (including photos): [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-
horse-service...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/17/travel/mini-horse-
service-plane.html)

"For some blind people [...] guide horses serve as a compelling alternative to
guide dogs. The animals are mild-mannered and fast learners, with nearly
360-degree vision. They may also offer balance support to individuals with
physical disabilities."

Also, dogs only live for 8-10 years, while miniature horses live for 35-40
years.

They can easily fit in the back seat of a hatchback.

~~~
User23
The main downside for the blind guide horse user is having every single person
that sees them run up and say some variant of "OMG IS THAT A HORSE!?!?!?!"
Even with a dog blind persons just trying to go about their business get a ton
of unwanted attention and a horse draws an order of magnitude more.

One also needs to be able to pasture it. It doesn't take a ton of land, but a
guide dog can live in an urban apartment and a horse can't, at least not
without being miserable.

------
someonehere
Good. It cheapens those with real service dogs and real needs. Taking
advantage of the system with improperly trained “emotional therapy” animals
who misbehave makes it harder for legit service dogs to have credibility in
the real world. I have a friend with a legit service animal need who always
gets crap from the public or employees at restaurants/businesses. My friend
reminds employees of businesses about discrimination and then politely lets
them know vaguely what the dog is for. But this is all because people are
abusing the system with emotional ponies, therapy snakes, etc..

I took an international flight a few months ago and overheard the flight
attendant talking to a passenger and mocking how lenient our service dog rules
are.

------
coldtea
How we got from an era of common sense, to an era where everyone can declare
all kinds of bizarro pets as a "service animal" is a mystery...

~~~
CivBase
Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Everyone is willing to abuse the system to an extent for personal gain (some
more than others). Many systems provide special exceptions for emotional
needs. It's a social taboo to question someone's assessment of their own
emotional needs. Naturally, this means many people fake or exaggerate their
emotional needs to get what they want.

This isn't a _new_ phenominon. The increased awareness of emotional health
issues just means we keep seeing more systems implementing those exceptions.

Hardening systems against exploitation is difficult and at some point not cost
effective.

~~~
coldtea
Well, I'm not surprised about the "Everyone is willing to abuse the system to
an extent for personal gain" part.

I'm surprised about the above:

> _It 's a social taboo to question someone's assessment of their own
> emotional needs._

When common sense gave way to such a taboo about everybody's touchy
"feelings", however far-fetched they are?

~~~
CivBase
People often confuse skepticism with dismissal.

Regardless, we do not have the means to accurately disagnose someone else's
mental health without relying on their own assessment. We know mental health
problems are real, but anyone can get themselves diagnosed with almost any
mental issue if they're a convincing liar. What can we realistically do about
it?

~~~
tpmoney
With severe enough issues, it's not necessarily a matter of confusing
skepticism with dismissal, it's that either one is extremely anxiety inducing
on top of the main issue. I've known people with serious anxiety disorders,
and for them, one of the worst parts about going out in public was not dealing
with their anxiety, but dealing with how others would react to their anxiety.
The last thing they wanted or needed at the time when their issues were
flaring up was an interrogation from some stranger, especially if that
stranger was in a position to deny or delay them access to the help they
needed.

ESA abuse definitely makes it harder for people with real issues and real
ESAs. And while I understand the issues it causes when people abuse the
system, like most "public outcries" over abuses, I worry that we're going to
overcorrect on this one.

------
elamje
The most shocking thing to me as a consumer is just how difficult it really is
to fly a pet somewhere. This summer, my wife and I plan to go to Europe for a
while, and want to bring our dog, so we don’t burden a friend with him for a
month.

I have gone on most major airlines websites, blogs, etc. and there is really
no good source of information out there! In fact most US -> Europe airlines
won’t even allow an animal in the cargo hold during summer months due to the
heat. Okay, fine.

So let’s bring him in the cabin. Is he under 15lbs? Nope, you cannot bring it
with you. Instead we are currently exploring this very loophole because there
is simply no other alternative. When you cross oceans there is really no way
get your animal there without the help of other people. I guess the reason a
solution doesn’t exist is because it’s somewhat a niche problem, and airlines
are focused on volume.

Any and all suggestions are welcomed. If you have a large dog that has flown
internationally, please email me.

~~~
philliphaydon
Why can't you put him in a doggy hotel.

You would never be allowed to take a non-service dog to New Zealand, any (non-
service dog) Animial going to NZ is put in quarantine for 1 month on arrival

------
projectileboy
Unfortunately this is a crummy situation for those who really need, say,
emotional support animals, but sadly this is a situation where the bad apples
ruined it for everyone. Two days ago I watched a “service animal” pee in the
corner at Schiphol, and on a Delta flight I once put my bag under the seat in
front of me, only to discover that I put it in a puddle of urine from yet
another “service animal”. At this point it mostly feels out of control.

~~~
parliament32
The funny part is nobody "needs" an ESA. Real service animals are put through
a grueling multi-year training program, have a high wash-out rate, and cost
tens of thousands of dollars. ESAs can be "registered" for free online with
absolutely no training or assessment of any kind... because they don't
actually perform any kind of "service" like real service animals do.

------
nyolfen
plenty of fun stories like this:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/28/an-
emotiona...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/02/28/an-emotional-
support-pit-bull-mauled-year-old-girl-an-airport-terminal-lawsuit-says/)

~~~
topspin
what that dog actually did:
[https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/5163350_030119-gma-
emotio...](https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/5163350_030119-gma-emotional-
support-pitbull-attack-vid.jpg)

~~~
mrnobody_67
that needs a strong warning

------
vector_spaces
I have a take on this that I suspect is going to be unpopular.

I had a close friend who obviously had various mental health problems --
probably PTSD from a brutal childhood, major social anxiety -- but no
diagnoses. I mean, I'm not a doctor, so feel free to take that with a grain of
salt, but he quite clearly had issues, and limited means to go see one.
Anyway, he regularly used cannabis. Although he probably would describe his
use of cannabis as recreational, I think for him, and for a lot of people who
use it with undiagnosed health problems, cannabis "feels good" because it's
actually therapeutic.

I think something similar can be said for pets and animals in general. Some
people have disabilities that prevent them from living their lives to the
fullest. Some people have pretty severe anxiety around travel. And some people
in those categories don't even have diagnoses. All they know is their animals
provide comfort.

Sure, if you're someone with autism, bad social anxiety, or PTSD, it's known
that there can be a lot of safety inherent to a relationship with a creature
who won't judge you cruelly for being who you are. But on the less extreme
side, some people are dealing with anxiety or depression driven by grief,
shitty jobs, financial insecurity, or other issues, and having a loved pet
close to you -- especially when you're traveling, which sucks for a lot of
people -- can make an enormous difference.

One thing that I see missing from discussion here is that airlines and
businesses in general have a financial stake in limiting what's required of
them with regard to accessibility, and historically they've fought and
continue to fight tooth and nail to reduce such requirements, and even when
they lose, their actual implementation is often minimal and piss-poor. So I
don't think their "wins" are to be celebrated

Further, I'd argue that the headline itself is sensationalized: turkeys and
possums on planes are red herrings, as are the anecdotes in the comments
around "so-and-so said they got their dog registered just so he could fly with
her". Why did she want him to fly with her then? Sure, a passenger with a
turkey or a possum might cost the airlines more money -- but to what extent is
the average consumer even impacted by someone bringing a possum on the plane?

Finally, to the folks who suddenly care about animal welfare when we're
talking about folks with mental health related disabilities, you don't
_always_ have to fly with animals in cargo. A number of airlines allow animals
to fly in the cabin with you, with certain restrictions.

~~~
NhanH
I have some combination of OCD and generalized anxiety disorder. In general,
pets make me very uncomfortable, so your argument cuts both way too. Others'
emotionally support animal is my emotionally distressed animal.

------
djohnston
Yeah I'm fine with this. People have been abusing ESA and IMO only actual
service animals, those trained to perform a specific set of functions, should
be allowed in the cabin.

~~~
gamblor956
Airlines have allowed dogs and cats on planes and in cabins for decades...but
they charge for it.

ESA classification is being used by pet owners to _avoid paying_ for
transporting their pets.

~~~
djohnston
I guess I was mistaken. I thought there was a separate compartment for pets
aboard flights. That's what I assumed people were doing when they passed their
dog-in-crate to the airline employee

~~~
kingbirdy
Animals that are small enough can travel in-cabin for an extra fee, generally
in a crate under the seat, while larger animals fly in hard crates in the
cargo area.

------
mannykannot
"[The U.S. Transportation Department] also wants comment on whether it should
allow miniature horses to serve as service animals."

Putting aside my instinct that this proposal is just too ridiculous to
contemplate, has anyone considered the safety implications of a 70-180 kg
strong-legged hoofed animal flying around the cabin in turbulence? Or running
around after a crash?

~~~
EdwardDiego
Miniature horses are used as service animals in Muslim countries, as they have
religious biases against dogs. [http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30155540/ns/health-
health_care/t/s...](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30155540/ns/health-
health_care/t/seeing-eye-horse-guides-blind-muslim-woman/)

~~~
mannykannot
To be clear, the only thing that strikes me as ridiculous about the proposal
is having them in the cabin of airliners.

------
heelix
Good. I can't even believe they would allow a (mini) horse on an airplane...
much less back in meat space.

[https://www.thedrive.com/news/29332/us-dept-of-
transportatio...](https://www.thedrive.com/news/29332/us-dept-of-
transportation-rules-airlines-must-allow-miniature-horses-as-service-animals)

~~~
quartz
I thought this was weird too but my understanding is that miniature horses
actually make fantastic service animals. That article touches on some of the
reasons, including that they're housebroken, intelligent, capable of leading
the blind, can be trained to have a very calm demeanor, are often more patient
than dogs, mitigate issues with allergies because they don't shed and they
can't get fleas.

Also the big one: miniature horses live significantly longer than dogs,
reducing the number of times an owner has to re-pair and form a new
relationship with a new service animal.

~~~
EdwardDiego
And some people have religious objections to dogs.

------
Cofike
If we fly home for a few weeks for the holidays we'll often bring our dog with
us. We pay $125 to bring them in the cabin and they must remain in a carrier
under a seat for the duration of the flight. Cheaper than paying a kennel/dog
sitter and just easier for everyone all together. No problems at all so far
after years of doing this.

The last time I was checking in at special services (due to the dog), the
employee told me she registered her dog as an emotional support animal to
bypass the fee. This was the airline employee giving this advice. At that
point it was clear this was just a big joke. From what I understand now you
need to have a doctor's note from a mental health professional and a bunch of
other paperwork in order to bring your emotional support dog without a
fee/carrier. I figured that would stop a lot of tom foolery, I guess not.

------
Zelphyr
A member of my family is a medical professional and they told me that they
frequently see people who either come in because they want a work excuse (that
they don't really need) or want their animal classified as an emotional
support animal. I think the most absurd one I heard was they wanted their
chicken classified as an emotional support animal. It's definitely time to
draw a line.

EDIT: They told me that 99% of the time they say no to the latter request and
will only give a work excuse if that person is genuinely sick. They also told
me that they work with plenty of providers who just don't care and hand out
the work excuses and emotional support certifications upon request.

~~~
jaclaz
As a side note, and to be fair to chicken, my dad used to have one who was a
"real" pet (of course at the time even the idea of "emotional support" by a
pet or else was unknown).

This chick used to come when called, jumped on my dad's lap on command, made
"special" sounds for my father only and (it lived with the other chickens) for
some reasons was always the first one to come out the henhouse in the morning
and the last one to get into it in the evening.

So - bar defining it an ESA for not paying something - that particular chicken
actually was companion to my dad.

------
busterarm
This needs to be more widespread. People really abuse their animals and whole
emotional support concept and I remember a few years ago the hundreds of
people who thought it was okay to bring their emotional support pet to New
York Comic Con.

This shit has to stop.

------
crag
I was on a flight from FTL to NYC and saw some guy bring a duck on the flight.
The duck was classified as his emotional support animal.

It was a good idea, but once again people ruin a good thing.

------
Simulacra
It’s about time! The practice has been abused so much that it has depreciated
the publics perception of actual service animals.

------
Causality1
It's baffling to me that there's no federal or state licensing system for
service animals.

------
cafard
The best bakery I know of in Washington, DC, is run by a lawyer of
considerable experience. He takes a very firm line against emotional support
animals. Anyone wishing to argue the case finds out that he knows the law.

------
code4tee
Legit service animals are very well behaved and never a problem.

There’s no question though that this issue of pets masquerading as service
animals has become a big problem. Makes sense that places are starting to
crack down.

------
warmfuzzykitten
The modern definition of service dog is a dog you want to bring into places
that restrict dogs. Cheating is rampant.

------
fortran77
Misleading title. Actual service dogs, like seeing eye dogs for the blind, are
still allowed.

Other, self-declared "emotional support animals" are banned.

> "The U.S. Transportation Department on Wednesday proposed giving airlines
> the power to bar emotional support animals from cabins and limit the
> definition of a service animal to a trained dog."

------
randyrand
Seems like we just need some small percentage of flights to allow dogs.

------
bthomas
Yes there is rampant ESA abuse, but note the airlines all charge $175 each way
for a pet. Isn’t that obvious collusion?

It’s $350 to take my small dog to LA for the weekend when the round trip
ticket for a human is $100. She is great on planes and has never had even a
minor incident.

~~~
reaperducer
_Isn’t that obvious collusion?_

No, because people have been flying with pets for as long as there have been
planes. The difference now is people are abusing the system.

~~~
bthomas
The problem is they all magically arrived at an exorbitant price that seems to
reflect monopoly pricing. Also fees have standardized recently.

~~~
vageli
> The problem is they all magically arrived at an exorbitant price that seems
> to reflect monopoly pricing. Also fees have standardized recently.

Playing devil's advocate, if the market determines prices then isn't settling
on a price to be expected across practically indistinguishable providers of
the same exact service?

------
asdff
This whole song and dance is absurd. People are currently flying with their
cat or whatever as a 'service animal'. It's pretty normalized and to be
expected to see while traveling anywhere. Why not just let you fly with your
pet to begin with?

------
devpts11
Entitled people who make the lives of actual disabled people harder are the
worst kind of selfish. It's also why Social Security hearings take several
years to get for some people who aren't visibly disabled. This is because
whole extended families apply since they have shady lawyers and doctors to
help them invent conditions. It's a game to them, taking help away from people
who need it.

~~~
fastball
Which is why, when the goal is to guarantee rights, universal programs are
generally better than discretionary / means-tested ones.

------
blackrock
This culture with dogs and animals have reached nonsense proportions. It has
gone to the other extreme, and it needs to be reigned back in.

I was in an elevator, and some guy brought his dog to work, or something. I
was surprised that I might have flinched, said WTF, and the dog flinched, and
growled. At that moment I thought the dog was going to attack me, or the
others in the small elevator cabin. And this was a medium to large sized dog,
that was also beyond the owner’s ability to easily control.

And I see more often now, people walking their bulldogs, as if they are nice
and friendly pets. They are not. They are vicious attack animals.

These dogs are not professionally trained. There is no certification that can
guarantee that the dogs are safe to the public. And the owners are typically
incompetent and irresponsible morons that shouldn’t have a dog to begin with.

And there are those idiots that brings their large dogs into department
stores, and walks them around as if it’s perfectly ok. It’s absolutely
abnormal to be shopping at a Target, and to have to avoid some idiot’s large
dog.

It’s also irritating to walk through a store like Nordstrom Rack, where people
bring their small dogs into the store, and let them sit inside the cart.
There’s nothing worse than placing your new clothes into a shopping cart
soiled by a dog’s urine or poop. But I digress, Nordstrom Rack must have a
policy to allow these people that privilege to bring in their small dogs. I
try to avoid the place if I can, because of this. I’ll vote with my wallet.

I’m all for letting people have service animals, if they are blind, or
physically handicapped. At least those service animals are professionally
trained (or at least I hope there is a valid certification for that).

But for all others with their supposedly “emotional support animals”, then
they are just abusing the system, and taking advantage of the good graces of
others. It is only a matter of time before one of these dogs violently acts
out and attacks someone or a child in public.

What will it take to outlaw this? Do we have to wait until one of these dogs
kills a child in order to ban them?

~~~
Ghjklov
>Do we have to wait until one of these dogs kills a child in order to ban
them?

I doubt even that will be enough. I share a lot of your fears. It hasn't
happened yet, but one day someone is going to lose track/control of their pit
bull here in California where even small women can take them on walks and it
will attack me while I'm walking/running home. So I have to make sure to walk
on busy streets so if I do get attacked, I at least have someone who can help.
There was one time I was walking somewhere and two different pet owners
crossed paths and their dogs started barking and aggressing each other, one of
the owners even fell but on the bright side he didn't lose grasp of the leash
and the girl with the big ass dog was able to keep her dog under control.
Another time recently, I was going home with my sister and we walked past a
house where some dog owners lost control of their dog which started running
for us, but luckily it was friendly and wasn't out for blood. Small cute
breed. But what about when it isn't? It's fucked.

------
lxmorj
I had an ESA certificate for a while and may get one again soon. I never lied
to get one, either. That said, the online certification basically amounts to a
long-form version of needing to answer yes to two questions: 1 - does flying
stress you out? 2 - does your dog make you feel better?

I never once used it for anything but flying, because things like bringing
your dog to the groceries or the movies or a restaurant is just unnecessary.
If you find yourself splitting your time between two cities that are >1 day
drive apart, you have only a few choices: 1 - Don't have a dog over 18lbs 2 -
Leave dog half the time 3 - Risk dog's life and guarantee a Very Bad Time
under the plane 4 - Get ESA certificate

I think airlines are leaving money on the table and should just have a
relatively expensive travel-certification obedience course and charge a
boatload for it. I'd happily pay $500 per year to have my dog authorized to
fly in the cabin without an ESA (which incidentally cost less than half that).

To pre-address the typical objections (and to steal from my own HN comment
almost 3 years ago):

"People are allergic!" For $100 a tiny shedding dog can ride in a very-not-
dander-proof container. My dog is non-shedding.

"They can be noisy!" So can your toddler. So can above tiny dog. Mine isn't.

"It's like parking in a handicap spot!" No silly, my dog takes up my foot
space, no one else's

"The airline is losing money!" My dog & I weigh less combined than plenty of
people who pay the same fare. I've also offered to buy a seat for my dog and
leave her in a large crate on the seat. Not an option.

"The guy next to you doesn't want a dog around!" See answer 1. Also, 90% of
people are happy to be distracted from the horror of flying. Anyone who isn't
can easily trade seats, since most people are happy to sit by the pup.

~~~
matchbok
Imagine being so selfish and incapable of doing normal human things, like sit
in a chair for a few hours, that you are willing to put a whole plane full of
people through a bunch of nonsense and potential danger.

~~~
lxmorj
I'm genuinely curious if you read the comment or just 5 or 6 words. What
exactly is the potential danger?

The way the system is set up is very stupid. It does in fact allow untrained,
large, dangerous, poop-on-the-plane dogs onto planes with an online BS
certificate. That doesn't mean that anyone who uses an online cert is putting
people at risk on getting eaten by a Rhodesian Ridgeback. It is in fact
possible to just train your dog properly...

