

Most and Least Affordable Cities To Live In - nathanwdavis
http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/18/real_estate/most_affordable_cities/index.htm?postversion=2009051907

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roc
Headline should probably be corrected to "Most and Least Affordable Cities to
_Own a Home_ ".

That's notably different than overall cost and quality of living.

Given the aim of this 'study', it's hardly surprising the rust belt owns the
top spots.

And at some point it would probably be useful if we drew a line between
-cities- and uncomfortably populated suburbs. Because a -city- of a couple
hundred thousand and a -suburb- of a couple hundred thousand are very
different beasts.

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nathanwdavis
Yes, owning a home is different from renting, but really cost of home
ownership is a pretty good measure of overall cost of living. In almost any
city, rent prices will sit just a tad bit lower than a mortgage on an equally
comfortable home - the two markets are in competition because they essentially
meet the same need (a place to live).

Secondly, most other costs of living (transportation, food, utilities) don't
have the huge variance that the cost of a place to live does, so it becomes
the most statistically meaningful measure.

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pg
_really cost of home ownership is a pretty good measure of overall cost of
living_

Not true. In some places there's a big gap between the cost of owning and the
cost of renting. In Silicon Valley, renting is much cheaper than buying,
because there is still so much expectation of future growth built into house
prices. So you can't use house prices as an index of how affordable the Bay
Area is for e.g. someone who's 25, because they probably don't want to buy a
house yet anyway.

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nathanwdavis
You may be referring to the average rent compared to the average mortgage on a
home. But they are not equal. The average rented place in the valley does not
have the amenities and comforts of the average owned home. If location,
comforts, size and all other factors are equal, you will probably find that
the cost to rent is almost equal to the cost to own.

~~~
pg
If you buy a house in SV and rent it out, you get about half the after-tax
return that you'd get in the rest of the US.

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dangrover
I realize they have a metric that takes into account multiple factors, but I
don't think "median home price" is the best thing to think about here.

For instance, you can live in the San Francisco area and have access to things
there without buying an entire property in the city proper. An apartment in
Oakland, etc.

Also, I think you can find affordable housing in just about any city,
depending on what you're willing to put up with.

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nazgulnarsil
which is why a standard of living metric that takes housing into consideration
(among other things) gives you a better picture of the living situation in
various places.

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nathanwdavis
Does cost of living translate into cost of startup? Does it matter much?

I think if you can pay yourself (startup owner) less but still maintain the
same standard of living, that's a great advantage.

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byrneseyeview
Expensive cities encourage less skilled people to leave. You can get by in
Ohio if you're unable to make more than $20K a year; it's much harder to
survive on that in New York, so the low earners leave. So the people you spend
time around are all there because they have a good reason to be there. SF and
New York are Meatspace Metafilters.

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ssharp
There are tons of people in NYC that are "low earners". Do you think everyone
walking around in that city makes 6 figures?

There is some truth to what you're saying but your argument doesn't hold up to
defend it at all.

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byrneseyeview
It's a statistical argument. On average -- this is hard to deny -- New Yorkers
are wealthier than non New Yorkers. Someone deciding where to live has to ask
whether they'd be happy there, and whether they could afford their lifestyle.
Someone who says "I could only be happy in New York earning $200K.
Fortunately, in New York I can earn $300K" will be happy; someone who decides
they can't earn that much will go somewhere else, even if that place doesn't
have the wage and skill levels of NYC.

This is also why people here walk and talk fast. With the rent so high, you
can't spend time drawling or shuffling around. You have to get to the point or
destination _fast_.

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byrneseyeview
I used to live in El Paso; it's the cheapest part of the US I've ever been to.
Perhaps the problem is that it's non-comparable cheapness; you eat for less,
because so many hole-in-the-wall diners serve awesome food, for example. The
chains are still there, and still expensive.

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cakeface
I'm kind of surprised Boston isn't on this list. I've always felt like it is a
fairly expensive city for what it is, especially with regards to real estate.

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run4yourlives
Yeah let me know when they get a global perspective. Downvote if you will, but
if I'm going to be continually subjected to this same article every 3 months,
I'm going to make the same comment until they start to broaden their
perspective a little.

There is a whole world out there people, start thinking that way, because your
customers already are.

