
After New York Attack, Congress Wants TSA to Secure Amtrak, Buses - freditup
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-26/congress-wants-the-tsa-to-help-secure-amtrak-and-buses
======
mindcrime
Oh, hell no. The last thing we need is more dumbshits, who couldn't hack it at
McDonalds, groping people and clogging up the transportation networks. We need
to shut the TSA down, not expand its scope.

~~~
jghn
I take the train a lot despite it taking longer and not being a good deal
specifically to avoid dealing with the TSA. This would just keep me from
traveling in general

~~~
sneak
Consider switching to a better country.

~~~
yolesaber
Consider the economic burden and complete lifestyle change to necessitate
that.

~~~
seibelj
Sneak, which country did you move to?

~~~
sneak
I have lived in Berlin since 2008.

Regardless of what laws are on the books of the respective countries, the
state interferes in my day-to-day life vastly less in Germany than in the
United States, and the interactions I do encounter are generally way, way less
brain damaged than the idiocy perpetrated continuously by the TSA, idiot
American cops, et al.

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jrockway
I don't understand how a TSA-like organization is going to secure ground
transportation. To get total safety, you'd have to secure every grade
crossing, bridge, bike-path-near-the-tracks, and so on. Any idiot can be
texting and stall their car at a grade crossing and kill way more people than
most terrorists dream of. Happens quite often. What are some security guards
looking for drugs in your luggage going to do about it?

Air travel is nice because there is basically one area that needs to be
secured; once the plane is in the air, there's not much you can do to it.
(Modulo 9/11!) I don't think the TSA does much (any airport employee can
smuggle whatever they want into the secure area), but at least the task is
theoretically possible. And, with air travel, the risks are higher; you can
hijack the plane and use it as a missile. Trains run on tracks, so there is
really no way the thing can take out the World Trade Center.

Anyway, this pattern of money grabs after botched terrorist attacks is
depressing and distracts us from the real problems in New York City. Kids die
every week walking to school because of people not driving carefully. Actual
deaths. Kids. How do we react? By not filing charges, and by removing traffic
calming devices because they interfere with parades.
([http://gothamist.com/2016/08/29/nypd_safety_west_indian_para...](http://gothamist.com/2016/08/29/nypd_safety_west_indian_parade.php))
Are we going to address real problems, or are we going to waste our limited
money on things that simply don't happen because the possibility scares us?

~~~
gruez
> Any idiot can be texting and stall their car at a grade crossing and kill
> way more people than most terrorists dream of

how? other than the vehicle instantly exploding on impact, the only thing
that's happening to the passengers is a small bump.

~~~
chris_7
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla_train_crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhalla_train_crash)

~~~
tzs
Note that this was quite unusual:

> Since grade-crossing accidents typically do not lead to fatalities on board
> the train, investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board
> (NTSB) were particularly interested in determining why the fatalities
> occurred.

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martey
I think this story buries the lede - it is pretty clear that this is not about
creating TSA checkpoints at train stations and bus depots:

 _" A bipartisan bill introduced Thursday by Senator John Thune (R-S.D.) would
require the TSA to use a risk-based security model for these transport modes
and to budget money based on those risks. It would require a wider use of the
agency’s terrorist watch list by train operators and more detailed passenger
manifests along with tighter screening of marine employees. The legislation
also would increase the TSA’s canine use by as many as 70 dog-handler teams
for surface transportation."_

 _" Lest you begin hyperventilating, it’s virtually impossible to envision
airport-style screening detectors or security queues snaked around America’s
train and bus passenger depots. “This is very much not creating for bus or
rail transportation the [security] model that exists for aviation,” said
Frederick Hill, a spokesman for the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and
Transportation, which Thune chairs."_

~~~
yread
But there already are security queues snaking around train stations?!

EDIT: Philadelphia: [http://travelswithtarc.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/05/DSC013...](http://travelswithtarc.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/05/DSC01363-1024x576.jpg)

~~~
catbird
That's not a security checkpoint though, they're just waiting to board the
train when it arrives.

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caseysoftware
Protip:

If you want to "opt out" without opting out, simply tell the TSA that you
can't lift your arms above your head. They'll let you bypass the scanner -
sometimes even the metal detector - and swab your hands.. and you're done.
I've done it 20+ times in the last year. If they ever ask why, I say "it's a
college basketball injury." I'm a 5'8" (1.72m).

And if you get really brave, you can try my thing "I can't lift my arms like
this" while lifting my arms.

I have yet to be called on it.

~~~
ChrisBland
I have been Opting Out since the backscatter machines were used and they were
"safe". What a boondoggle, wasted $800mm on those. The only downside is
traveling with friends & family you get a few jokes cracked at your expense,
but that never bothers me. Most agents I talk with acknowledge that its
security theatre, only once is a while do you get an agent who thinks they
will be the next rambo and having that extra .5oz of liquid over the limit in
your bag is a threat to national security and treats you as such.

~~~
caseysoftware
When I travel with friends of family, I encourage them to not acknowledge me
for a few minutes and then turn opting out into a fun experience for everyone!
Except the TSA. ;)

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M_Grey
Money money money moooooney... MONEY. There's nothing else that could inspire
the sheer balls for an organization with such a crushing track record of
failure (95% last tested, right?) to imagine that this is a good idea.

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ceor4
If congress and their staff were forced to go through the same process as
everyone else (and not through a VIP precheck line) they might realize what a
clusterfuck it has become.

Last flight I had some water left in my bag which I realized just before going
through the security scanner. So instead of letting it go to waste, I thought
it'd be best to quickly drink it. But I was stopped by a TSA agent saying it's
a security risk and I'd need to either leave or give him the bottle clear
bottle of water.

He had nonchalantly took it, he had no doubt it was plain water and threw it
in a trash container full of other bottles. Kind of ridiculous, if they really
thought a clear liquid was a liquid bomb or something, why would they give me
the option of leaving it with it? And how could it possible be a bigger
security risk for me to ingest it, than give it to them to put in the open

While it's not like it ruined my day, it's certainly enough to convince me the
whole thing is a joke.

~~~
joering2
Well, if TSA checks through diapers of babies just in case - you know - you as
a parent might have put a bomb there, why not swallowing some sort of magical
liquid that let you live for next 45 minutes, and explode/destroy aircraft
once you get aboard and in the air?

/s

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-uKemWVFeY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-uKemWVFeY)

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pcl
The thing to remember here is that we gave up some of our liberties at the
airport because airplanes were demonstrated to be credible weapons for
attacking any location in the nation.

Trains and buses (to a lesser degree) do not share that attack vector. Trains
ride on externally-controlled rails, and often depend on externally-provided
power. Buses are slow, depend on roadways to reach any targets, and don't
really offer any novel attack vectors vs. trucks.

~~~
trendia
Not only that, but the TSA was created because there was a threat, and not
because the TSA provided any actual defense against that threat.

Major difference between intent and outcome.

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spodek
Federal money is a gravy train for contractors. They lobby congress to get it.
The New York attack is a benefit for them, sadly.

~~~
cloudjacker
(become a contractor)

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jackyinger
Can we just have martial law with curfew, checkpoints, and papers already? I
don't know about you but having no rights would make me feel so much safer.

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
People are easier to control when they think they have rights to begin with
and imagine the government is legally subordinate to their power.

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Kenji
It boggles my mind how certain countries are becoming safer day by day, yet
people feel compelled to vote for pervasive surveillance and control. I think
it is a mental disorder, a complete disconnect from reality, bordering on
schizophrenia.

~~~
cmurf
I call them scared little bunny rabbits. People freaked out over a statistical
0.0% increase in the _local_ population let alone nationally, for refugees
coming into the country. And these people are all, "no they're dangerous,
they're not vetted, we're being stupid..." And when I say, "no we're being
generous, because we can be and should be." And these types just cock their
heads and frown. Yep, scared little bunny rabbits. Life contains dangers,
there is no life guarantee, but so many people are scared of bullshit. Go put
some sunblock on, or stop smoking, or something useful.

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barisser
The country is simply too large to physically secure everything.

We'd have to become a police state to even begin to protect every potentially
sensitive area. You can kill people with almost everything and it is
infeasible to prevent it altogether by force of arms.

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x1798DE
Why does anything need to change? This is another in a long line of
ineffective terrorist attacks, and if anything strengthens the case for
keeping on as usual (if you want to argue that security at the best targets is
already so good that people are resorting to random dumpsters). No one died
and as far as I can tell no one even has serious injuries.

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l3m0ndr0p
Next up, TSA at your local interstate Toll booth. If you have EZ-Pass or
similar, then you will automatically be enrolled into TSA - Precheck.

This is needs to stop. Contact your representatives and tell them hell no.

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abz10
I remember when they wanted TSA to grope children at high school proms.

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EGreg
Next up - TSA securing entrances to your own buildings.

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IndianAstronaut
Meanwhile I accidentally left a switchblade in my bag and still managed to get
through airport security twice.

~~~
thesmallestcat
As in an automatic knife? If so, you might be lucky. Those aren't just
forbidden on airplanes, they're illegal in many jurisdictions.

~~~
paulddraper
Holy crap, you're right.

The US Switchblade Knife Act of 1958 prohibits the import or interstate
commerce of switchblades. Plus a bunch of state laws about possession and
carry.

Add a button to a knife, and _now_ it's dangerous.

~~~
dlgeek
Note that almost all knives people consider to be switchblades are actually
"assisted open" knives instead.

The law very specifically requires a switchblade be opened by pressing a
button on the handle. (They're generally implemented by a spring pushing on
the blade and a catch released by the button). An assisted open knife has you
start opening the knife by applying pressure to a stud on the /blade/ which
causes a spring which had been holding it closed to continue opening it
instead. These do not meet the definition of "switchblade" and are not illegal
in most jurisdictions.

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homero
Bullshit that doesn't help anyone but the govt and terrorists ruining society

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rco8786
Uggghhhh

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BillAtHRST
Because they're doing such a good job at the airports ...

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h4nkoslo
Explanation: only a few congressional districts have airports, but a lot more
have bus stops & train stations. TSA are the kind of shitty patronage jobs
that appeal to them.

~~~
rayiner
It's not really a "patronage" job. Nobody gets their TSA gig because they know
a member of Congress.

~~~
tsomctl
It's the opposite way around. People that have cushy government jobs support
members of Congress that maintain those jobs.

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psyc
Who is this "congress" I keep hearing about? It sounds like they have a lot of
power.

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maverick_iceman
One more reason never to take public transport.

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KC8ZKF
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're
evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.

~~~
eth0up
Further expansion of the TSA seems a pretty universal nightmare to me. Maybe
it's a bit out of place here, I'm not sure - their presence at train and bus
stations wouldn't be a "new phenomenon" though[1]. I do think the TSA/DHS et
al encourage unhealthy forms of paranoia[2], and my own experience with them
warrants loathing. They've also hard-earned a pretty bad reputation, which
doesn't exactly merit additional responsibilities.

1\. [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-
beyo...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyond-
airport-security.html?_r=0) 2\.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/05/07/iv...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/05/07/ivy-
league-economist-interrogated-for-doing-math-on-american-airlines-flight/)

