
Inside China’s surveillance state - olivermarks
https://www.ft.com/content/2182eebe-8a17-11e8-bf9e-8771d5404543
======
abhiminator
"China starts from a different point of view — that a strong empowered state
is necessary, in order to drag the nation forward."

I highly recommend Martin Jacques' Ted talk [0] on this very subject from over
7 years ago. I believe this aspect of Chinese culture -- of treating the state
as being a BIG part of your daily life -- is super important to grasp if one
wishes to get a sense of Chinese thinking and way-of-life.

It's also a starting point if one wishes to imagine how a future China might
turn out to be.

[0] [https://youtu.be/imhUmLtlZpw](https://youtu.be/imhUmLtlZpw)

~~~
rqs
> I believe this aspect of Chinese culture

Well, for me, it's just like to saying "Oh, Chinese people just do that
sometimes".

It's a quite ignorant view actually, because when you look at Taiwan and
Hongkong, it's very easy to found that Chinese people can adapt to many
systems rather than the 'good' old authoritarianism.

Mainland China current running by the Communist Party is actually because of
many historical reason, rather than a choice of Chinese people.

Also, one thing some people from the west don't understand that the Chinese
government lead by the CCP also generates many many benefits to the Chinese
people, and doing a not-bad job protecting their citizens. And those benefits
are not easy to be ditched away.

Another thing that I want to mention is, China will never be 'Westernized', it
will instead to be 'Modernized'. And you can clearly see modernization
everywhere in China during these 7 years.

In fact, for me, the word 'Westernized' is pretty arrogant: It assumes the
'West' should set the rule and standard for the world. And you just can't
assume that, just like you can't assume all your neighbors one day will follow
the exact schedule like you do. They just don't.

Also, about Han[0]'s superiority: First thing is, you maybe don't know that
the Chinese government provide better benefits[1] to those ethnic minority
groups than Han people did.

As a Han myself, I personally don't feel like that I'm superior than others.
In fact, start from the kindergarten, we been educated to respect other ethnic
groups and at least know what not to. For example: Don't eat pork in front of
Hui[2] people.

Yes, many people still don't completely understand all those rules or just
don't care about it after they grown up, but you can't deny the education is
there.

Even there is superiority between Han and other ethnic groups, then that would
be very similar as in C++ programmer vs PHP programmer, rather than black vs
white.

Then, about Uyghurs[3]. To be honest, I don't fully understand the problem
there. But I think the tight control that the government has implemented there
is at some part due some terrorist attacks[4][5][6][7][8](are originated from
Xinjiang). And you can think of how many pressure the center government has
pushed on Xinjiang's administration, so maybe that's why they did something
that not so civilized.

I'm not saying it's understandable or forgivable, they are not resolving
problem from the root there. What I'm trying to say is: Maybe things happened
in Xinjiang was not about ethnic superiority as some west people may think it
is.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China#Gua...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_minorities_in_China#Guarantee_of_rights_and_interests)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hui_people)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China)

[5]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Kashgar_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Kashgar_attack)

[6]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Tiananmen_Square_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Tiananmen_Square_attack)

[7]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack)

[8]
[https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E5%B9%B4%E6%96%B0%E7%96%8...](https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E5%B9%B4%E6%96%B0%E7%96%86%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%97%E8%A2%AD%E5%87%BB%E6%A1%88)
(No English version available)

------
olivermarks
'...Some 530 camera and video surveillance patents were filed by Chinese
groups last year, according to the research firm CB Insights — more than five
times the number applied for in the US. Unhindered by worries about privacy or
individual rights, China’s deepening specialism has attracted global customers
and investors. “The surveillance industry is still in the growth phase,”
proclaimed analysts at Jefferies, the New York-based investment bank. '

In a way I'm relieved the West is lagging behind on this but I found the whole
article very worrying indeed. Individual digital rights have never been more
urgent or important in the West to delineate 'free' society, life, liberty,
pursuit of happiness etc...

------
stcredzero
"Panopticon?"

Sesame Credit:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI)

------
f00_
non-paywall link: [https://outline.com/ejH8Nf](https://outline.com/ejH8Nf)

------
notveryrational
Waaay more interested in the American surveillance state, which is global,
penetrating, the best funded, attached to a global propaganda system, and sits
in the hands of the world's premiere superpower. I'm also a citizen there.

These Chinese surveillance state stories are all really tame compared to the
abuses of the American program.

~~~
dnomad
You will never see Western journalists go after their own surveillance state
even though it is far more extensive and aggressive than China. What's really
strange is they accuse China of doing things like exporting compromised telcom
equipment -- things that we now know that the NSA actually does. (See eg NSA
interception of outbound Cisco routers.) Given this very particular blindspot
you really do have to wonder who they think they're fooling.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
> You will never see Western journalists go after their own surveillance
> state...

False. You see it all the time.

> ... even though it is far more extensive and aggressive than China.

Not sure I buy that, either. The US may be more aggressive in terms of
information collected, and in terms of global scope. It's less aggressive than
China in terms of being used to control the lives of the entire population of
the country, though.

~~~
dnomad
Nobody outside of the American fantasy believes this even for a second. In the
US you have local law enforcement running around with cell trackers, public
and private organizations deploying widespread facial tracking, and let's not
even get to the absolute zero data protections Americans enjoy so literally
all their data, from location history to purchase history, is available to the
highest bidder. But hey, it's not the government doing the tracking so it
doesn't matter! Anybody with even half a brain understands that Americans are
the most surveiled people on the planet. (Though the Brits are a close second
and it's not for lack of trying they're just less competent.)

But really keep focusing on China. Have a feeling this strategy will work
great for you.

