
Is there logic behind France’s rumored €1 Billion Google Tax? - liam_boogar
http://www.rudebaguette.com/2014/02/05/logic-behind-frances-rumored-e1-billion-tax-google/
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Shivetya
I had to kind of laugh at the seeming distress expressed in the article the
Google merely passed on the taxes to the consumer, as in who do politicians
and journalist think pay all taxes? Business taxes are merely an indirect
means of taxation on the populace, it is done to fool the general population
into believing someone else carries the load.

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yodsanklai
Can you elaborate? how google being taxed has an impact on my own income?

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colechristensen
It's a bit of a stretch but it has some truth...

On one extreme, Google keeps it's prices static and it's customers don't
change their buy resulting in the tax coming only out of Google's profit.

On the other extreme, Google raises it's prices exactly proportional to the
tax, it's customers buy the same amount of ads and raise their prices exactly
proportional to the increase and you pay them for service or good $x. Your
income stays the same but it buys less because everything is more expensive.

The real result is in the middle, google eats some of the loss from tax,
raises it's prices and customers somewhat lower their ad spend and somewhat
raise their own prices eating some of the loss from tax. Which extreme any
individual believes is more accurate has more to do with political bias than
truth.

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flyinglizard
Then, of course, Google has shareholders which are none other than the public
(either by direct ownership of stocks or through funds of various sorts).
Whatever taxing Google can not offset by raising prices, is passed on to the
shareholders in the form of reduced EPS.

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digitalengineer
_" For now, the tax is just a rumor, A rumor that is a symptom of a very real
problem. And that problem is Taxation on Internet Companies. Expect this
problem to be solved in the next 10 years."_

A very real problem indeed. But it's not a Google problem. It's a
France/Hollande problem. France is in recession (agian or still).

French private sector contracts as Germany’s grows Business activity in the
eurozone’s two largest economies is diverging sharply, with France’s private
sector contracting after two months of growth while in Germany it accelerated
to a 10-month high, according to a survey.
[http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/87e4a572-5285-11e3-8586-00144feabd...](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/87e4a572-5285-11e3-8586-00144feabdc0.html)

French officials warn of social tinderbox as economy contracts again The
latest data show a continued erosion of France’s industrial base and export
share. It risks shattering the credibility of President François Hollande, who
has been talking up recovery for months.
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10450889/...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/10450889/French-
officials-warn-of-social-tinderbox-as-economy-contracts-again.html)

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tgautier
Find another article to comment on with your fucking french bashing.

This article is about International Companies avoiding taxation in Europe,
which is, believe it or not, a real problem in terms of finance and ethics.

They make money out of EU citizens and get out of it with 0% taxes when EU
business have to pay between 15% and 35% of their benefits in tax.

~~~
digitalengineer
Thank you for your kind words. Were you a waiter from Paris by any change? I
read the article is about _France’s_ rumored €1 Billion Google Tax. Not a
European Tax...

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tgautier
I thought this article was more about the fact that "some" non EU companies
are making huge loads of money and evade tax.

I'm not a fan of this french government but I have to admit that it's not an
heretic idea to say that a company should be taxed on its revenue.

Sorry for the tone but I'm so used to the comparison with Germany by people
who seem to forget that the Euro is tailored for countries with an strong
export oriented economy, like Germany.

Euro is more the core problem than France/Hollande or the fake North vs South
Europe fight.

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digitalengineer
No worries. I agree with you this one-size-fits-all euro is hurting our
country's abilities to rule over our own fate. We no longer control our own
money… Be it French Francs or Dutch Gilders. This, combined with no
representation makes for a lousy combination.

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lepouet
The problem for Google which might cost them 1 Billion is that they say that
all sales to french customers are done in Ireland but in the same time Google
has 100+ employees in france whith title like "sales manager" who talks about
theirs "clients" in internal emails.

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liam_boogar
I don't think that is true.

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lepouet
This is what this article [http://www.bfmtv.com/economie/enquete-google-
france-sorganis...](http://www.bfmtv.com/economie/enquete-google-france-
sorganise-echapper-fisc-703022.html) ( in french ) explain.

Realising this was a mistake everything was renamed in 2011, apparently.

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mercurial
The article is not replete on details on how this supposed tax would work.
Personally, I'm in favour of taxing Internet companies, but I believe tackling
such a complex issue affecting many countries on a national level is a
mistake.

Disclaimer: I'm French too.

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sillysaurus2
_Personally, I 'm in favour of taxing Internet companies_

Why?

EDIT: I was just curious to hear more.

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mercurial
Why shouldn't they pay their fair share? Normal companies who make profits get
taxed. Giant companies funnel their profits through Holland and Ireland, and
pay a paltry amount.

Back in the days, the nobility had also exempted itself from taxes. I see no
reason for this state of affairs to continue.

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davidw
So the solution is for .nl and .ie to close their loopholes, not create new
taxes, no?

They recently passed a similar tax in Italy, and the whole thing was about how
the big bad American companies are making money and not investing in Italy.
This, at the same time Fiat is decamping from Italy because the business
climate is so shitty. So what's their creative answer to improve things?
Another tax!

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nl
_So the solution is for .nl and .ie to close their loopholes, not create new
taxes, no?_

.ie _is_ the loophole, most of the time.

~~~
davidw
I think it'd be fair if companies like Google that have their corporate EU
base in Ireland were taxed in the EU at Ireland's corporate tax rate, in full.
It's low, but higher than what they effectively pay.

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dmoo
To be fair, they do pay their tax in Ireland. It just seems that there isn't a
whole lot of profit earned due to 'admin-charges'

[http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-
wi...](http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-
ocarroll/2011/mar/24/google-ireland-tax-reasons-bermuda)

Disclaimer: I am Irish

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atmosx
The article is kinda poor, but the subject is interesting. Once again
technology is way ahead of the justice estates all over the world (for good or
bad).

Google and Apple (among others) are renown in Europe for paying virtually no
taxation[1]. And while once upon a time no one really cared, now it's hard to
swallow for voters being crashed by the financial crisis, so either this will
change or some political figures might lose additional points in the next
elections.

I'm not angry with Google. I'm angry with our corrupted politicians who've
done nothing to fix this, all over Europe, not just in France and not just for
Google.

Since we have the technology to tackle the issue at hand, everything else
sound like an excuse.

[1] [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549379/Fresh-
questi...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549379/Fresh-questions-
raised-Googles-tax-avoidance-tech-giant-announces-profits-3-4-billion.html)

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pms
Maybe this kind of taxation could be a way of coping with NSA surveillance of
European citizens? (That's just a provocative sentence, so please keep on
reading.) Currently, Europe is at data disadvantage comparing with USA, and
this disadvantage is used by USA not only for security reasons, but also to
protect interests of USA. (That's what Snowden claims himself.) In such case,
shouldn't Europe also protect its interests? I think the only two ways out
are:

1\. Imposing taxation on foreign Internet giants in Europe. Needless to say,
that would lead to divisions of the Internet, which we all want to avoid.

2\. There should be an international act signed between Europe and USA
providing Internet companies certain degree of independence from national-
level surveillance, which would protect privacy of citizens of each country
involved in the act to the same extent.

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lispm
Most of these US companies are huge tax avoiders. They use very trick to avoid
paying ANY taxes. For some reasons these companies have tricked the countries
to be able to. About time they get taxed at all.

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Doublon
The answer is "no". Disclaimer: I'm French.

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louhike
The fact that you are french does not make your opinion meaningfull without
any explanation on why you disagree with this tax. Please, explain us why or
do not leave this kind of comments.

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vvvVVVvvv
Another French there, but with hopefully more insight on the why.

If France alone stands up for this one, it's meaningless because they'll find
a loop (or carry on with the Double Irish and Dutch sandwich) and we'll just
look like communist heaven (hyperbole) while not reaping anything.

We need to do it at the EU level, with a law which overrules local business
taxations settings if the company is owned by a non EU entity.

Of course, the only way to push for it is to have champion country doing the
dirty work, so I guess we're stuck with that.

