
Waymo released a 360-degree VR representation of what its robocar sees - NicoJuicy
https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-think/transportation/self-driving/watch-waymos-carseye-virtualreality-view-of-the-world
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Animats
This shows much the same info as Chris Urmson's TED talk in 2015.[1]
Simplified for a non-technical audience, cleaner graphics, and without
Urmson's clips of the vehicle encountering such things as someone in a powered
wheelchair chasing a turkey with a broom. The tech video is more informative.
It shows more of how sensing and planning interact. "Fences" appear in the
graphics showing the keep-away area for a moving obstacle such as a bicycle.

Waymo is going at this right. They sense as much as they can, build a detailed
3D model of the world, and only use machine learning to help classify objects.
Classifier failures aren't too serious; the obstacle still gets avoided, but
you might not get as smooth a ride as the behavior prediction won't be as
good. Compare Tesla's self-driving videos.

[1]
[https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_...](https://www.ted.com/talks/chris_urmson_how_a_driverless_car_sees_the_road)

~~~
amelius
There's still the issue that self-driving cars are too courteous compared to
normal drivers. I wonder how/if they'll fix that. Imagine sitting in a self-
driving car that can't "push" itself through traffic; or imagine sitting in a
car behind that car ...

~~~
andrei_says_
I’m also thinking of how human drivers will quickly learn to exploit this and
get a feel of how to push the algorithm to get a slighgood advantage. Like,
advancing a bit and stopping or getting a bit closer in order to merge in
front of a self driving car.

~~~
amelius
On the other hand, the self-driving car has a lot of cameras, good for
collecting evidence, which may scare human drivers.

~~~
tyingq
Maybe, but there are quirks you can exploit. Getting hit in the back of your
car, for example, usually means fault is with the car behind.

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ChuckMcM
Clearly this is an orientation video that is going to play in the waiting area
for people who are using a self driving car for the first time. Its calm,
everyone around it is calm, and nothing unexpected happens during the entire
video.

I of course want to see the video where the human drivers do things that human
drivers do. They illegally pull out of left turn lanes to go straight, they
fail to stop when they turn right in the intersection you are about to enter,
they make an illegal u-turn when they realize they turned the wrong way. What
does the car do when someone tailgates it? What does it do when pedestrians
step off the curb but then don't cross? Watching how the car navigates those
situations would make me feel a lot better than watching it drive around where
everyone was following the rules.

~~~
ape4
Exactly. Or a car stopped blocking your lane so you need to break the rules
and go into the on coming lane to pass. So many odd situations are possible.

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gregmac
Having the rendered car's view visible to passengers inside is a very great
idea for at least the first couple generations of self-driving cars, and
especially being as prominent as they are in this car. It helps get people
comfortable with the idea, and feel better knowing the car is picking up on
everything in its surroundings.

I'm a bit skeptical about if those are real graphics though -- they look quite
detailed beyond what I feel the 'sensors' can see, but maybe I just
underestimate this technology.

The screens are also (unfortunately) a great place to blast ads at a quite
literally "captive" audience, but I digress.

~~~
thanatos_dem
It wouldn’t surprise me if they were dummy or dramatically simplified graphics
just to make people more comfortable. Planet Money had a show on this topic a
few years back -
[https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...](https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=427467598)

They drew a comparison to the early days of elevators, when everyone was
terrified of them, especially after transitioning away from having a lift
operator controlling it. The solution at the time was the big red emergency
stop button.

~~~
stevenwoo
The first elevators in Europe (mostly legacy ones in Germany now I think) that
never stop and don't have doors still terrify me.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster)

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bitpow
When there’s 1000’s of cars in one area blasting LIDAR and RADAR at each
other, will there be interference issues?

~~~
yaantc
Disclaimer: I'm not involved in AV, but I have a telecommunication background
that let me do some (hopefully) not too stupid guesses on how a LIDAR can
behave here. If some expert in the field can give more authoritative feedback
that's be even better.

Looking at [1], a typical LIDAR uses 10 ns pulses, at 140 kHz for pulse rate.
So one LIDAR uses only 0.14% of air time. A LIDAR is also a rotating device,
looking at reflections only from a narrow angle at any give time (how large
this angle? TBD). That also reduces the risk of looking at another reflection
in the right direction at the right time. Raw collisions should be rare, even
in a crowded environment (you're 1000s of cars is extreme, 100s will already
be very crowded).

Then if it's using the usual techniques for signal detection, each pulse is
encoded with a randomized pattern, so that a LIDAR can recognize its own
pulses reflections using correlation. So a given LIDAR will only consider
reflections using the right coded sequence. That will further reduce the risk
of wrong interpretation, depending on how many bits in the synchronization
sequence.

Lastly, at 140 kHz you can do quite a lot of filtering and still have a fast
update. If by extraordinary bad luck another reflection comes from the right
direction in the right time window with the same sync pattern, this would
create an odd input that's unlikely to fit with one's own echo pattern, so
could be filtered out. And it's not likely to last long considering all that
has to align.

That's my armchair analysis based on a quick search and a single set of slides
;) But it's enough to see that interference is not likely to be a problem. And
I would expect this question to have been considered by AV LIDAR experts in
much more detail.

[1]
[http://web.pdx.edu/~jduh/courses/Archive/geog481w07/Students...](http://web.pdx.edu/~jduh/courses/Archive/geog481w07/Students/Marcoe_LiDAR.pdf)

~~~
davrosthedalek
I think the problem is more the analog side: If your sensor is saturated by
too much light, it might not be able to pick up on your signal anymore. Direct
LOS to another high-powered source is probably a lot brighter than what LIDAR
normally detects. Then, all the reduction from sync pattern etc don't apply,
and the sensor might be blinded considerably longer than the actual signal
length if driven to saturation.

~~~
yaantc
Possibly yes. I was assuming an RF-like behavior where there is indeed
saturation of the A/D converter but the blinding doesn't last more than the
interfering signal (or negligibly so). But these are for timescales in
multiple of us not ns. For ns level time scales maybe it's a bit different,
but if it's not too different the low air time usage would avoid problems here
too. The blinding pulse would mean an angle between two circles in space
(angle from the interfering direction, circles corresponding to distances
associated to the blinding pulse start/stop with respect to the last
interfered LIDAR own previous pulse transmission) would loose any echo and
become blind. With the vehicles moving such a "lost patch" would not be fixed
either, and interpolation based on past and surrounding data is possible.

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ecesena
Direct link to the 360 video:
[https://youtu.be/B8R148hFxPw](https://youtu.be/B8R148hFxPw)

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m3kw9
Drives fine on what seem like a perfect looking place in perfect weather and
perfect drivers

------
hallman76
Does anyone know if these types of vehicles have special power requirements to
support the onboard CPU/GPU? Just curious.

~~~
gpm
A quick google search [0] suggests that the alternator can provide 200 amps of
power at 15V, so I doubt it (but I don't know).

[0] [https://www.quora.com/How-much-electrical-power-do-cars-
supp...](https://www.quora.com/How-much-electrical-power-do-cars-supply-while-
the-engine-is-running-Will-anything-be-damaged-if-other-devices-are-operated)

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SlowRobotAhead
Maybe I’m just skeptical of the SDC hype...

But I’ll take all of this a LOT more seriously if there was a serious effort
in V2V / V2I (vehicle to vehicle/infrastructure) systems - AND - if semi
trucks that take known and constant routes were being deployed.

It seems obvious to me for SDCs to be a Railroad v2 at first. Vehicle takes a
long distance and known route back and forth. Seems far easier and immediately
makes money.

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crusso
Have they solved the issues around navigating through the drive-thru lane at a
restaurant?

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dmead
You can see something similar in the computer history museum in mountain view

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hawktheslayer
All I can think of when watching this is the crime fighting potential.

~~~
908087
"Halt and stop resisting, citizen 9874653792! Google has observed you engaging
in the consumption of unauthorized plants. Prepare for re-education factory
enrollment."

What could possibly go wrong?

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lurkeyloo
Since the video said the robocar could predict where other object were
going...any chance of a video where the robocar swears and call another drive
a f*cking idiot? I would watch that video...

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dbg31415
The Tesla video with "Paint it Black" was much cooler.

Tesla Autopilot Full Self-Driving (Paint It Black soundtrack) - YouTube
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyH734JQD0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeyH734JQD0)

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mtgx
I understand Google/Alphabet is doing the "absolute regulatory minimum" here,
as it usually tends to do in everything else, but what's the point of having a
self-driving car with a wheel you can't access in case of a self-driving
system breakdown?

The manual control should be easily accessed by the passengers. Will Waymo
even allow people to sit in the front seat at the wheel and allow them to
control it whenever they want?

~~~
benjaminl
The reason why the steering wheel is there is due to these cars being modified
Chrysler Pacifica minivans. It is easier all around just to leave the wheel as
it.

There is no need for a passenger to take manual control. If the car or the
self driving system has a problem. The car will pull over and another Waymo
self driving call will arrive to allow you to complete your journey.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If the car or the self driving system has a problem. The car will pull over
> and another Waymo self driving call will arrive to allow you to complete
> your journey.

So if a (perhaps malicious) environmental configuration consistently causes
Waymo cars to fail, you’ll just collect an ever-increasing number of them at
that point?

~~~
saurik
A lot like ants encountering the inside of a freezer. In this case, though, a
human is going to be told "there is a broken car here someone has to come
collect", and they will hopefully notice if they see two or three of them at
the same location (seeing as how cars don't travel instantly so there is time
to notice stuff in general).

