
E-cigarettes around 95% less harmful than tobacco, estimates landmark review - troydavis
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review
======
LinuxBender
My son grew up with my ex. The entire household smoked. When he moved in with
me, he switched to vaping. I am very thankful for that. While vaping has some
risks (shady vape juice vendors, low quality coils that give off toxins), I
gladly accept that over something that we all know causes cancer for the
consumer and those around them.

Any time I see discussions or articles about vaping or e-cig being dangerous,
I automatically assume it is funded by a part of the tobacco industry that has
not invested in vaping. There is no logical reason otherwise. The vape juice
quality can and should be addressed by the FDA and consumer reviews. By all
means, educate people on risks, but every attempt to keep people on cigarettes
needs to be nullified.

~~~
verdverm
We do need to get rid of flavored Vapes, kids don't even realize they are
using nicotine and becoming lifelong addicts.

~~~
exolymph
1) That only matters if nicotine itself is substantially bad for you, which is
far from clear: [https://www.gwern.net/](https://www.gwern.net/)

2) Adults like flavors too. We shouldn't ban anything appealing that kids
shouldn't have just because it might appeal to kids.

~~~
wahern

      “The whole problem with nicotine is that it happens to be
      found in cigarettes,” she told me. “People can’t
      disassociate the two in their mind, nicotine and smoking.
      It’s not the general public that annoys me, it’s the
      scientists. When I tell them about the studies, they should
      say, ‘Wow.’ But they say, ‘Oh well, that might be true, but
      I don’t see the point.’ It’s not even ignorance. It’s their
      preconceived ideas and inflexibility.”
    
      ...
    
      “To my knowledge, nicotine is the most reliable cognitive
      enhancer that we currently have, bizarrely,” said Jennifer
      Rusted, professor of experimental psychology at Sussex
      University in Britain when we spoke. “The cognitive
      enhancing effects of nicotine in a normal population are
      more robust than you get with any other agent. With
      Provigil, for instance, the evidence for cognitive benefits
      is nowhere near as strong as it is for nicotine.”
    

From [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-a-
nicotine-p...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/will-a-nicotine-
patch-make-you-smarter-excerpt/)

I've never smoked (though I tried and _failed_ to be pick up vaping 10 years
ago), but I think it should be abundantly clear that for _centuries_ many
smokers have been effectively self-medicating, either to blunt some mental
disorder (Schizophrenia, etc) or for what today we might call a cognitive
enhancer. It's just that the addictiveness of smoking has masked that
phenomenon. Vaping is unmasking it because nicotine _alone_ is not nearly as
addictive as smoking. (Seems unclear if vaping is as non-addictive as, e.g,
nicotine patches or gum. Probably not, but we'll see.)

~~~
icanhackit
It's worth noting that tobacco contains harmala alkaloids [1] which are
monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs). So it's possible those who persist with
smoking in place of vaping or other nicotine delivery mechanisms might be
doing so because they're (unknowingly) self-medicating for depression.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmala_alkaloid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmala_alkaloid)

------
jmcgough
The entire public health crusade against e-cigs reminds me of the anti-pot
crusade in the 80s and 90s. Lots of decisions made by the government based on
emotion instead of based on evidence.

In the 19-29 year old demographic, e-cig vaping is cannibalizing cigarette
smoking. That's a net public health gain, since e-cigs have dramatically fewer
carcinogens.

------
bitxbitxbitcoin
Yet we'll still have people saying that that 5% is just too much.

~~~
Jonovono
E cigs are physically healthier than normal cigarettes but I still think they
are worse for you.

~~~
code_beers
What on Earth does that even mean?

~~~
verdverm
It means that there is a psychology component. That people who are addicts,
nicotine or whatever, spend significant portions of mental energy focussed on
the object of addiction.

~~~
moftz
Great thing about e-cigs is that you can wean yourself off the nicotine while
still keeping the simulation of smoking. You can buy progressively lower
nicotine concentrations until you feel comfortable with no nicotine. Once you
don't have a physical addiction, giving up the e-cig entirely becomes easier.
I used to smoke cigarettes and drink caffeine whenever I was staying up late
to study. School got harder so more late nights meant I smoked more up to the
point I was smoking during the day just to smoke. I switched to a vape with a
high nicotine concentration instead. I found that I used it much more often, I
could get a nicotine fix indoors but at least it wasn't a real cig. I started
backing down the concentration and the use (mostly due to the public image of
looking like a douchebag blowing huge clouds) and now I'm at the point where I
only use the lowest concentration when I'm in the car alone. Nicotine
addiction is barely on the radar for me anymore. Smoking really doesn't have
that "volume knob" that vaping does. You can make that responsible choice of
buying lower concentrations that isn't really possible when you buy a pack of
cigs.

------
spaceprison
It's good to see studies like this.

To my knowledge addiction to nicotine poses no known health risk. Its
interesting that the anti-smoking movement that was motivated by the public
health risk associated with smoking has gradually turned into a puritanical
drive to eliminate addiction.

It seems to me that identifying less harmful alternatives to smoking (ecigs)
is a more realistic path to smoking cessation than saying it's all bad.

------
verdverm
From 2015, also curious who "funded" the study?

~~~
troydavis
Here's a 2018 URL affirming the same estimate:

[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-
independent...](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-independent-
expert-e-cigarettes-evidence-review)

That page has tons more detail. The first footnote is a report commissioned by
Public Health England, the British equivalent of the US FDA.

Here's a joint statement by 13 of the most influential - and most neutral - UK
public health organizations, including the Royal College of Physicians (US
equivalent: American Medical Association) and the British Lung Foundation (US
equiv: American Lung Association):
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534708/E-cigarettes_joint_consensus_statement_2016.pdf)

These aren't obviously biased studies or people and they aren't easy to
dismiss.

Whether the health difference is 20x ("at least 95% healthier"), 10x, or 50x,
there's now a nicotine delivery method - vaping - that, while far from
healthy, almost everyone agrees is far healthier than traditional smoking. The
difference may be large enough to justify removing paper cigarettes from the
retail market entirely.

------
marsrover
I don’t smoke cigarettes but I’ve been exclusively vaping weed since 2012.
Hope I’m getting some similar benefits.

------
verdverm
Challenge to vape users, go 3 days without and evaluate the effects on your
mood. Nicotine withdrawal is the part about giving up smoking that suuuucks!

Do you want to be dependent upon this particular chemical? Do you want to
permanently change your brain? (I highly recommend against)

------
WMCRUN
The study makes broad claims about physical health but was conducted by
psychologists.

Also, the heavy metals in vape liquid and the spiking addiction rates in
teenagers and children beg to differ with their conclusions.

~~~
folkrav
> The study makes broad claims about physical health but was conducted by
> psychologists.

Where did you see anything about them being psychologists? Closest I could
find was a handful of authors being associated with the Institute of
Psychiatry, Psychology & Neuroscience - neuroscientists and psychiatrists are
very far from being psychologists...

> Also, the heavy metals in vape liquid

Very curious about your sources about the "heavy metals" in e-juice.

> the spiking addiction rates in teenagers and children beg to differ with
> their conclusions.

Addiction is caused nicotine, which hasn't been found to be particularly
harmful by itself. Addiction rates speak nothing about harmfulness.

You're making a whole lot of unexplained claims here.

