
Tesla Roadster - franl
https://www.tesla.com/roadster/
======
wintermute2001
Am I the only one who's worried that Tesla is really starting to bite off more
than they can chew? Right now their finances are a mess, they are publicly
struggling to produce their most important car ever, their CEO is spending
time figuring out how to dig holes underneath LA...and now they're announcing
a semi truck and a roaster in the same day? Don't get me wrong, Teslas are
incredible cars. But this seems like an overreach considering they are
struggling to figure out how to meet demand on the Model 3. It's also insane
to announce this car with what boils down to a bunch of CGI! These are some
very bold announcements and there isn't much explanation for how these goals
will be met. I hope this all turns out as advertised, but I'm very skeptical.

~~~
dkhenry
You have been reading too many finance blogs. Their finances are far from a
mess, they are just not what finance people like to see. They have cash on
hand and a roadmap to execute on. If they don't execute they will go out of
business, and they will take my money as an investor with them. I'm OK with
that and as long as they continue to have a path to profitability I am all on
board. I want to see them burning money to get market share, especially as
they do something new. The idea that companies must always operate within a
specific set of financial metrics is why GE is going out of business

~~~
PunchTornado
Exactly. As a small investor in them I fully support them. Even if I lose all
my money I know it went to cool research that has benefit the progress of
science in a cool way.

~~~
zymhan
I mean, that's fine and dandy, but then you're really just donating your money
to "science" and not investing it. Which goes back to the original claim that
their finances are a mess.

------
Unklejoe
Has the 8 second quarter mile been confirmed to be done in stock trim (i.e.,
no special tires or other modifications)?

The reason I ask is because that is EXTREMELY impressive. I tune EFI systems
on race cars as a hobby, and any car in the 8 second range usually needs to
run slicks or drag radials to have enough traction.

Even all wheel drive cars (GTRs, DSMs, EVOs, etc.) usually run 4 slicks once
they get to that speed.

It seems very hard to make a pass like that on regular street tires, even with
AWD.

EDIT: To add, I'm not knocking Tesla here, as there are very few cars that can
actually run an 8 second pass off the showroom floor without any modifications
at all. Even if they had to put slicks on the car to reach that time, that
still puts it on par with 1000 HP dedicated drag cars.

~~~
neom
I'll be amazed, _amazzzzed_ , if that car, stock, can create enough down force
to keep itself on the road with stock tires, I don't care how good your TC is.
Look at the size of the wing on the new Zr1 [https://youtu.be/O_adY_b-
aLQ?t=3m14s](https://youtu.be/O_adY_b-aLQ?t=3m14s)

~~~
wallace_f
Downforce is more than the wing. You see those giant diffusers in the back?
Those work as venturi tunnels, creating a sucking force, sticking the car
down.

As a matter of fact, F1 cars in the 70s-80s were using venturi tunnels that
extended the entire length of the vehicle. This is impractical in a modern
gasoline-powered car.

Theu were even getting so good with their aerodynamics that they were rumoured
to be generating more downforce with ground effects than from wings.

In an electric car, you could do what they were doing back then.

~~~
mallaidh
And the Roadster doesn't have real side skirts to seal up the tunnel, which
significantly degrades any diffuser downforce.

~~~
wallace_f
Just pretend, the same way they do with the claims about the GTR's ~0-degree
wing, and most all aero claims on street-legal cars.

Aero at street legal speeds is basically worthless and range-destroying. Many
supercars don't have more aero than the Roadster, just go look at them, they
usually either have no wing, like the Lambo Huracan, or a wing with virtually
no angle of attack.

------
ardit33
The Tesla roadster specs are insane! No exotic carmaker will be able to match
it (taking price as a consideration). (no Ferrari, or Lambo, can get that
close. This is Formula 1 acceleration speeds).

Plus 620 miles of range, and it is a 4 seater. Expensive as hell, but this is
exotic car territory.

Base Specs

Acceleration 0-60 mph1.9 sec

Acceleration 0-100 mph4.2 sec

Acceleration 1/4 mile8.8 sec

Top SpeedOver 250 mph

Wheel Torque 10,000 Nm

Mile Range 620 miles

Seating 4

Drive All-Wheel Drive

Base Price $200,000

Base Reservation $50,000

Founders Series Price $250,000

Founders Series Reservation

(1,000 reservations available)$250,000

~~~
Jdam
> No exotic carmaker will be able to match it.

Did you fact check that? Actually, Bugatti is pretty close and partially
outperforms, although at a way higher price point.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Chiron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Chiron)

~~~
ardit33
Yes. The Chiron matches it in speed, but not acceleration. 1.9s vs 2.4s to
60mph. Since the roadster has a 250+ mph figure, the tires are probably going
to be one of the limiting factors. (same with the Chiron).

" The Chiron can accelerate from 0–97 km/h (60 mph) in 2.4 seconds according
to the manufacturer,[4] 0–200 km/h (120 mph) in 6.5 seconds and 0–300 km/h
(190 mph) in 13.6 seconds. In a world-record-setting test, Chiron reached 400
km/h (250 mph) in 32.6 seconds, after which it needed 9.4 seconds to brake to
standstill.[14]

The Chiron's top speed is electronically limited to 420 km/h (261 mph) for
safety reasons.[2] The anticipated full top speed of the Bugatti Chiron is
believed to be around 463 km/h (288 mph)."

~~~
gsnedders
Chiron is traction limited for most of its run; I presume to beat the Chiron's
time the Tesla Roadster has better tyres for initial grip.

~~~
usrusr
Very unlikely. With power you weight beyond useful (this has basically been
"solved" since the day someone built a cat around a ww2 military aircraft
piston engine), acceleration is determined by aerodynamics (drag and
downpressure), tires _and the time spent shifting gears_. It's pretty evident
where Tesla has the advantage.

~~~
thinkloop
Shifting gears? Why does it have an advantage?

~~~
cheeze
Teslas don't need gears since they use electric motors. So there is literally
no time spent shifting gears.

See [https://www.quora.com/Why-don%E2%80%99t-Tesla-cars-need-a-
ge...](https://www.quora.com/Why-don%E2%80%99t-Tesla-cars-need-a-gear-system-
Why-does-a-gear-system-make-sense-only-for-combustion-engines)

~~~
gsnedders
The original Veyron could change gears in 8ms, and will, IIRC hit 60 in 2nd.
Changing gear isn't going to be a considerable part of the time here.

~~~
PeterisP
Wikipedia
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron)
states that the original Veyron gearbox could change gears in 150ms, so it is
a considerable part of the time.

------
speeq
Close up video of Tesla Roadster launching from zero:

[https://twitter.com/DavidHodge/status/931391188065705984](https://twitter.com/DavidHodge/status/931391188065705984)

~~~
davidwhodge
Hey folks. I was the one that took that video. let me know if you have any
questions.

~~~
usaphp
Why did you sped up the video instead of posting the original? You can see it
by the movement of people around the car at the moment of acceleration.

~~~
GijsjanB
Probably not sped up. What you're seeing is a sudden acceleration of the
camera's viewpoint when panning to the left in order to keep up with the 1.9s
to get to 60mph.

------
nodesocket
200K is actually good value, seeing as gas supercars that are near it in terms
of performance (except slower) often cost over $1M.

EDIT: Tesla probably should fix their homepage going to a what appears to be
the live stream page. I'd have to imagine they are losing valuable pageviews
and sales. Tesla.com should be redirecting to either the Semi or Roadster
landing pages.

Screenshot: [https://imgur.com/a/L9oN5](https://imgur.com/a/L9oN5)

~~~
lafar6502
I dunno. check the value of previous model of tesla roadsters and if their
owners want to keep them

~~~
Sohcahtoa82
Yes, we should totally judge the next gen Roadster based on the first gen one.
Ignore the advancements in battery tech and other lessons Tesla has learned in
the nearly 10 years since the first Roadster.

~~~
lafar6502
They haven’t learned how to produce cars, that’s sure. And judging by the
past, your car will become outdated and obsolete in 5 years.

------
Animats
Does this mean that Tesla is pivoting from their attempt to produce a medium-
priced car in quantity and going back to hand-building high-end cars?

Tesla is good at high-end, low volume products. But the Model 3 production
fiasco shows they don't know how to do what Detroit and Wolfsburg and Toyota
City do. This is in a way a step backwards. Tesla is going back to targeting
the 1%.

There are lots of little supercar companies. It's not that hard to build an
electric supercar in tiny volume. I know some people who've done it. It's fun,
and there are idiots with too much money who'll buy the thing. But it's a
waste of engineering talent which should be getting the volume product out the
door.

~~~
samhunta
Toyota owns Lexus, Ford had Jaguar and Land Rover, Hyundai owns Genesis,
Volkswagon has Bentley, Fiat owns Ferrari. Just like other car manufacturers,
Tesla does it all.

edit: Ford didn't start Jaguar.

~~~
Animats
Tesla doesn't run a volume production line. All the major players have
production lines that make about one car a minute. Tesla isn't able to play in
the big leagues until they can do that.

~~~
samhunta
Fair enough, but how will they ever achieve that without first trying to
compete in this outrageously competitive industry?

~~~
fma
By solving their biggest problems first, rather than create new distractions?
Kinda the same thing any company would do.

------
jsight
I would really love to know how they are getting such a large battery capacity
in a vehicle of this size.

Is this a generational leap in energy density? What kind of materials are
being used here?

~~~
thebluehawk
My brother pointed out that other Tesla cars (even the semi they announced)
have a "front trunk". This one's hood is seamless. Our theory is that under
the entire front hood is batteries.

~~~
kijin
I wonder what happens when one of these cars crashes head-on into something.
The front of a car is supposed to act as a crumple zone. Batteries aren't very
good at crumpling.

~~~
ygra
Neither are internal combustion engines. What crumples are structural
supports, not all the components within. And if they go that route I guess
they'll go with slightly different battery chemistry as well to avoid a fire.
They might have to do so anyway to sustain power output.

~~~
jsight
Yeah, and Tesla has talked about this extensively in the past. It would be
pretty surprising if they switch to using this area for battery, but it is
possible.

------
bwang29
I'm thinking what this means to gas car makers.

Wave 1: "It's all about legacy and prestige, not speed/acceleration".

Wave 2: "The track handling isn't all that good, how can drivers take that
corner at full power without losing traction".

Wave 3: "Alright, we will go electric too".

~~~
kirse
Gas will always have sound. The growl of an Aston Martin V12 on startup, or a
Lexus LFA screaming through a tunnel, or the flat-plane V8 burble from a
Mustang GT350. EM cars only have a dull whine the faster they go. Motorheads
are secretly all musicians who happen to love driving.

The best combination is ultimately both though, hybrid systems are already
used quite frequently in everything from LMP1 WEC racers to modern hypercars.

~~~
audunw
The thing is that sound is associated with speed because a bigger/stronger
engine is usually louder.

Electrics will break that association. Or it will create a new expectation
about what a fast car sounds like. Because from now on, they will always be
faster than ICE vehicles.

I think there will be a niche of people buying ICE cars for their loud sound,
just as there are people who buy the loudest possible motorcycles even though
they're not very fast. But I think this will be a niche, and they will
probably be considered obnoxious people.

I think we'll also see more sound engineering in EVs. They'll perhaps get a
more satisfying sound, but will still be quiet.

~~~
rkangel
The sound is satisfying for reasons that are entirely separate with its
association.

~~~
dEnigma
Do you have any sources for that? Personally, I don't find sports car sounds
satisfying at all, so I guess those reasons don't apply to everybody.

~~~
fma
It's kinda why someone would buy a Harley Davidson...they have a distinctive
sound associated with power.

~~~
dEnigma
Yes, but this might just be a cultural phenomenon, not a universal quality of
the sound itself.

------
DenverR
They clearly learned the power of the preorder with the Model 3! This is a
great way to raise funding without going back to the equity markets.

Say they can fill up all the founder series slots along with 5,000 regular
slots, that’s $500,000,000. Smart :)

~~~
scott_karana
The S and the original Roadster had highly publicized pre-orders too...
nothing new for them. ;)

------
yoda_sl
Stumble on this video from last night where a few lucky invitees could feel
the experience of riding in the new Roadster. [https://youtu.be/C6nN-
GlghAc](https://youtu.be/C6nN-GlghAc)

------
gok
Love it. Perfect showmanship to hype up the truck then announce this.

Hope they stay solvent long enough to ship it.

------
sxates
Taking reservations for 1000 founder series cars at $250k each up front means
they're pre-selling $250,000,000 worth of product at least 2 years out. Kind
of smart.

~~~
rottyguy
I thought the same. These consumer "loans" along the way are a brilliant
marketing tactics. Anyone know if this is refundable?

~~~
zionic
With the M3 all deposits were refundable.

------
tdiggity
I wonder what the handling will be like. Teslas on the track have had over
heating issues, and cornering performance has been just average at best.

Not every exotic car owner (Ferrari, Lambo, Mclaren) brings their car to the
track, but I feel like a good % do. When you own a 200k car, you don't drive
it to the grocery store because it attracts too much attention, and you worry
something bad will happen to it.

Edit: For more clarification on the grocery getter comment: As an owner of an
older exotic car, I've seen that most do not drive their exotics that much.
1-5k miles max/year. The cheapest insurance policies won't let you drive it to
any public parking lots. And policies from the normal companies will cost
$3-8k in large metropolitan areas for 40-50 year olds. So where do you go? You
make excuses to drive it. Cruise to a friends house, drive in the mountains,
or to the track if you have time. Daily errands are for your other car. Why
risk it. Elon's a pretty good showman, and he makes me feel like I could do
anything with this car! But, alas, 200k, I want it to be perfect forever. Even
used in 5 years @ 130-150k.

~~~
smitherfield
_> But, alas, 200k, I want it to be perfect forever. Even used in 5 years @
130-150k._

The good/bad thing about electric cars is that they're sort of like computers
right now (they're getting twice as good every 1-2 years), so I expect they'll
depreciate more along the lines of used smartphones than (the existing market
in) used cars.

~~~
Already__Taken
Something like this I bet the value evaporates just like the manufacture
warranty on the battery.

------
dmode
Bold prediction: if they manage to produce a battery capable of 620 mile range
promised, it will essentially be game over for ICE cars. My bet is that next
generation of Model S and X will easily be in the 400-500 mile rsnge.

~~~
chrismcb
When the battery can be refilled in minutes, it will be game over. Until
then...

~~~
thebluehawk
As a Tesla Model S owner, you really don't need to fill your car in minutes.
It's a totally different (but not bad) mindset.

Every morning my car is full, because I plug it in in my garage. So if I don't
go more than 260 miles that day, it's plugged in the next night. It doesn't
matter that it takes a few hours. My gas car was just sitting in the garage
each night anyway doing nothing. How many hours does your car sit idle per
day? Probably way more than enough to charge it for your daily driving.

For road trips, there are super chargers.

I was a bit worried, after hearing all the fuss about range anxiety and all
that. Overall, charging has just been such a non issue.

~~~
erik_seaberg
I've never had a private garage, much less a locked one I could rewire. If
Tesla wants to go mainstream they need to handle apartment parking.

~~~
tazjin
Here in Norway it's common for apartment buildings that have parking spots to
have electric chargers outside and that seems to be working fine.

~~~
oblio
Your population density is minimal, though.

~~~
Robotbeat
Not relevant. In fact, electric infrastructure is cheaper to deploy at high
density than low.

------
hu3
0-60 mph in 1.9 sec

This might sound really stupid. But isn't performing such acceleration on a
daily basis close to the limit of harming one's health? I mean micro
concussions for example.

Really curious because that acceleration is amazing!

~~~
shaneos
Yes, that's a real problem. I took my Model S P85D to the track (fun, but felt
really heavy in corners) and had a concussion for 3 weeks afterwards. And that
was just Insane mode, not even Ludicrous.

The Roadster should come with a health advisory

~~~
Devthrowaway80
F1 cars accelerate faster than the Roadster's advertised numbers and the
drivers don't wander around constantly concussed.

I am curious how you managed to get a concussion in a heavy sedan that can
only maintain 0.87g of lateral grip. Were you in a collision?

------
pwaai

        1.9 seconds
    

That's what caught my attention the most. This is unheard of in a production
car. I'm also generally very excited that Lamborghini is also experimenting
with electric power.

We might be entering a new breed of electric supercars. the 3 second line used
to be the gold standard but it seems like electric cars are aiming for sub 1.5
second range....that is insane acceleration.

~~~
DKnoll
The production Dodge Demon can do 0-60 in 2.1-2.3s. Good, yes, but not unheard
of.

------
the_rosentotter
There has _got_ to be an astroturfing campaign going on here, or the HN crowd
is a lot more naive than I thought. Seriously, no one is concerned that Tesla
is announcing, not one, but _two_ new products, while they are failing to
deliver on all three they are currently producing (in terms of production
ramp-up)? What matters more than anything to Tesla is production at scale, but
they are busy promising ever more fantastic new products that will distract
even more from hitting core goals. Every announcement from Tesla seems more
like flimflam at this point, hardly better than an ICO (with preordering and
everything).

That's not even getting into Elon Musk's ever expanding personal commitments
with Tesla, SpaceX, Boring company, Solar City and what have you, _each_
making bold new announcements every other week, like saving Puerto Rico (and
Australia too, while we're at it).

~~~
AndrewDucker
Tesla seem to be doing ok in Puerto Rico:
[http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-
puert...](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-puerto-rico-
electricity-childrens-hospital-san-juan-solar-power-restored-elon-musk-
project-a8021716.html)

Australia work is 80% complete: [http://reneweconomy.com.au/musk-says-tesla-
big-battery-now-8...](http://reneweconomy.com.au/musk-says-tesla-big-battery-
now-80-complete-20896/)

There are definitely issues with the Model 3 - but I'd imagine that the
production line for the Semi will ramp up significantly after the Model 3 is
working, and will involve an entirely separate team.

[https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/11/teslas-hell-threatens-
its...](https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/11/teslas-hell-threatens-its-future/)

~~~
icc97
Elon Musk said it himself with the Model 3:

> Assume the worst [0]

So sure we should be skeptical about the actual deadlines. But they're trying
to compete against BMW & Mercedes (plus numerous other brands, but it seems
like those two are their main competition). It's not like those are terrible
companies, they've produced cars and engineering discipline of the highest
quality for nearly a century.

I'd be more worried if there's some major flaw in the car, like if it's got
the reliability of an 80s Jaguar (of which the stories about breakdowns in the
gizmodo article are the biggest concern). The issues coming out about panel
misalignment are bad (but I noted that my VW Golf I'm just buying wasn't
perfect either), but not end of the world.

Still though my inner child doesn't care, it still gets very excited when car
manufacturers show unrealistic made up cars [1]. But it seems like the
Roadster might actually happen and it's nice to see the Roadster getting some
love after being the car that started it all.

[0]:
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/916407361899708416](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/916407361899708416)

[1]:
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-07/lamborghi...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-07/lamborghini-
terzo-millennio-concept-self-healing-electric-supercar)

------
microtheo
Those acceleration figures are meaningless. The Chiron isn't the best car on a
circuit for example. I would be interested to see this car compete against say
a gt3 on a track like Nürburgring :)

~~~
StavrosK
Circuit performance is meaningless. I'd like to see the gt3 accelerate to
100km/h under 2" for example :)

~~~
microtheo
I mean what's interesting is handling, behavior in curves, power consistency,
steering accuracy. Weight could be a drawback. Acceleration isn't the only
metrics. Those are some reasons Porsche is considered to be making good cars.

------
gargravarr
The specs are astonishing, and I believe they can deliver. The original
Roadster is the iconic car that made electric vehicles cool.

Would be nice if they could get production of the Model 3 properly ramped up
so us peasants who've been drooling over performance electric cars since
before we had our driver's licenses can actually get our hands on them...

------
ukulele
0-60 in 1.9 seconds is ABSURD

~~~
cperciva
To be precise, 1.44 g.

For comparison, a Falcon 9 v1.1 rocket -- without payload -- at takeoff mass
has 1.19 g of thrust.

~~~
avar
For those that are unaware, all rockets then rapidly increase their G. For
example the Saturn V had 1.20 g at takeoff but climed up to 4-ish:
[http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/saturnV.htm](http://www.braeunig.us/apollo/saturnV.htm)

Someone on the Saturn V started experiencing more G than the Roadster about a
minute into the launch.

When you move a building-sized fuel tank under its own thrust it's going to
start off slow, but accelerate as more fuel is burned.

~~~
saagarjha
Plus I'd expect thrust to be kept low until clearing the lower atmosphere so
it's not all lost on drag.

------
mschaef
It'll be interesting to see if they can keep the battery power output up for a
sustained length of time. Acceleration numbers are all well and good, but
racetrack performance is about sustained high-load operation, and Tesla has
had some trouble there:

[http://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-
that...](http://www.thedrive.com/news/5207/this-video-reminds-us-that-the-
tesla-model-s-is-an-awful-track-car)

[https://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-
nurbu...](https://insideevs.com/expected-tesla-model-s-fails-lap-nurburgring-
full-power-video/)

Then again, how many people actually care? I don't think they'll have trouble
finding buyers.

~~~
crispyambulance

        > Then again, how many people actually care? I don't think they'll have trouble finding buyers.
    

You're right, the actual performance doesn't matter for the buyers of such
cars. All supercars are playthings for folks with money burning holes in their
pockets. Pure luxury, thrill and ostentation. The vast majority of these cars
will be slogging it out in mind-numbing stop-and-go traffic just like the rest
of us. Sure, there may be an occasional opportunity to make a dramatic passing
maneuver on a pristine highway against a driver that doesn't think he's
racing-- big whoop.

------
agumonkey
So basically Musk unveils future products of lesser demand but probably higher
profit so he can raise Tesla stock value a bit and also grab some preorder
cash flow and help Model 3 while it's stuttering ?

~~~
le-mark
Seems obvious now, I wonder why he didn't do this sooner. The first Tesla was
a high end sports car after all.

------
kibwen
_> 0-60 MPH in 1.9 seconds_

For comparison, a top fuel dragster does 0-60 in 0.5 seconds.

~~~
robotresearcher
And then needs its engine rebuilt. Also, the tires are lit on fire before
launch...

------
bigboy678
While the specs of this car are no doubt impressive i wouldnt say no one can
compete with them. Porsche is/has been working on a high end electric car for
quite a bit and they have specifically said they would challenge Tesla with
it. Porsche also is someone who knows how to build high end cars and with
their racing heritage i wouldnt be suprised if in 2020 they take some wind out
of Teslas sail

------
Gravityloss
Anybody know why Tesla didn't solve model 3 production scaling issues by
subcontracting to someone who could do a "running start"? I would imagine a
large portion of the car is relatively standard, being made of steel, mass
produced components etc.

~~~
Robotbeat
Because Tesla's real value is production scaling innovation itself.

------
dmcginty
I'd really like to see a clearer shot of the steering wheel (steering device?)
I'm curious why they decided to go with something that looks more like a
plane's yoke than a normal wheel. Is this something that's common with
supercars?

------
pilingual
It would seem over 200 mph isn't useful, except the Boring company could
change that. A private tunnel could enable such leisurely travel for only cars
that had level 3+ autonomy safety features.

~~~
kayoone
200mph top speed is just a consequence of the base abilities of the car, it
does not really matter in practice, but the fact that the car is capable of
doing it shows that it is really powerful and very aerodynamic. Besides far
away niche uses like tunnels under LA and autonomy, in Germany you could drive
200mph if you find a good stretch in the early morning ;)

------
dsfyu404ed
A lot of people seem to have an electric car fetish that is blinding them to
the amount of work that went into the chassis and suspension design which is
the real achievement here.

If you have 1000hp available at any speed not going at least reasonably fast
would be an achievement.

Putting 1000hp to the ground at really low wheel speeds in a semi-production
ready (let's not kid ourselves, nobody is going to be sending a $200k+ car off
the line in high volumes) chassis is the interesting thing here.

------
ascari
Electric motors are absolutely better compared to combastion engines. But
Guys, please don't compare apple to oranges. Tesla is no match to Ferrari nor
McLaren. Ferrari's main intention is to build a car that has a good cornering
on track. 0-60 is for muscle cars which you can compare to SRT Demon. All
these Bugattis, Koenigseggs are a bunch of unsteerable rockets on tracks. Last
but not least you know how Koenigsegg ended up in Nordschleife.

------
bigboy678
While this cars specs are no doubt impressive I wouldnt say no one will be
able to challenge them. Porsche has been working on a high end electric car
for a while and they specifically said they would challenge Tesla. Porsche can
build some nice high end cars, and with their racing/electric technology i
wouldnt be surprised if in 2020 they take some wind out of teslas sail

~~~
dalbasal
I guess that kind of language is always going to represent some hyperbole.
People _like_ porsches.

That said, the stats posted here are faster than any car you can currently
buy. Porsche _have_ a very fast supercar at the top of that list now, but it's
not as fast as this roadster (again based on the table in this link) and costs
3-4 times as much.

The kind of cars that approach the performance suggested here are generally
very expensive, very low volume "Sheikh" cars. Tesla is claiming that they
beat all of them, for a lot cheaper. If so... I wouldn't want to be a Porsche
dealer in 2021

------
macns
I'd like to see this kind of battery tech on a lowest-end, lowest-cost mass
production car with a 2-3k mile range on a single overnight charge. For my
usage in the city, this would mean I'd charge every other week.

How far are we from such a feat I wonder, and, can't help but speculate as to
why we're not.

~~~
sjwright
Because nobody wants a car that doesn't have enough range to drive to the
nearest hospital?

~~~
maxymoos
2-3k miles. Not 2-3 miles.

------
wpdev_63
It's a bit unbelievable they were able to double the range of the already
highly efficient model S...

Maybe a significant reduction of weight + increase in battery? Whatever it is,
it's amazing that they were able to pull it off.

------
ccozan
All nice and good. We see the EV revolution in front of our eyes.

But nobody speaks about the EV infrastructure.

~~~
zerostar07
At least for the roadster, it doesnt seem to matter that much. The people who
will buy this will do it for the flashy logo and the ridiculous (And
dangerous) speed of course.

~~~
ccozan
True.

But the revolution is simply the battery. They claim ~1000km on one charge.

This is impressive and might do something about the missing infratructure.

------
convery
I'm curious about the claim that it fits 4. Because my friend has a late 90's
firebird that while having 4 seats, it's clearly made for children / teens. So
any information if the backseats in this model is made for adults?

~~~
ZeroGravitas
He was relatively clear that it will be 2+2 rather than four full size seats:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2_(car_body_style)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B2_\(car_body_style\))

So, it'll be cramped back there for larger adults.

------
averagewall
Oh no, they're doing what all the other carmakers do and reuse the same name
for completely different cars whose only thing in common is to target the same
market segment. We'll have to call this the 2020 Roadster.

------
nepotism2018
I'm hoping they actually tested that 250mph+...I'm no expert but that car
looks bit too light and short to do that speed...can't see how it will stick
to the road...unlessssss...they want it to fly away :)

~~~
puranjay
I'm no engineer, but if you generate enough lift with some add-on wings, will
this thing go airborn?

~~~
mnw21cam
Mostly, you want to generate a load of lift _downwards_ to keep the thing
attached to the ground.

But to answer your question, if you define "enough" as "enough to make it go
airborne", then yes. You would then have to be very careful to make sure it is
actually stable in the air, or the results could be very non-pretty. And then
you also have the problem of keeping it going fast in the air, when previously
your only forwards force was provided by the wheel contact with the ground.

------
evo_9
Great another car for the super wealthy. I thought Tesla's mission was to take
on the GM's and Toyota's of the world. I'd personally be more excited if they
announced an affordable Tesla SUV.

~~~
zionic
Oh wow, I had no idea a company Tesla's size can only focus on one thing at a
time!

Meanwhile in reality they're ramping their most affordable car ever.

------
maxxxxx
This doesn't really makes sense as a sports car if you want to do anything but
go straight. If they had wanted good handling they should have gone for half
the range and saved the weight.

------
fivesigma
3 motors.

Some kind of torque vectoring deal in the rear wheels? Like the Electric AMG
SLS.

~~~
robotresearcher
Musk says so, yes.

------
csomar
0-60 in 1.9s for $200k that is affordable by a good range of people. I can see
disasters happening with this car as young dudes lose control when they
accelerate.

There has to be some serious A.I to prevent this.

~~~
largote
You don't use AI for that, you use a bunch of sensors and adaptive power or
braking vectoring. Calling some heuristics "AI" is a massive stretch.

~~~
alkonaut
It could use some image recognition perhaps. "Detected male driver 18-25".

------
grkvlt
It's interesting that people are so quick to dismiss this as merely a
rendering, with the videos being CGI. Is that because the videos are 'too
good' perhaps, or it just looks too much like a racing game car on the X-box?
You'd have to deliberately ignore the fact that there were real cars presented
at the announcement, for instance. Also interesting is that because the
acceleration is so fast, there were accusations of the video being sped up at
that point - people couldn't believe it was real. Are HN readers getting more
skeptical of TSLA because of its recent financial and production issues, and
this is showing in the cynical comments here?

~~~
bllguo
Oh please. I should hope that people aren't so intoxicated on the Kool-Aid
that when Tesla claims the Roadster outperforms the fastest production cars in
the world, people want to dig deeper.

You're seriously implying that blindly accepting what they say is better?

~~~
grkvlt
No, no - it's just the 'only exists in CGI' I have an issue with, since people
are arguing against factual evidence. But, this is a prototype, so of course I
expect the performance figures are going to change, and speculation about
_that_ aspect is par for the course and I have no problem with that.

~~~
bllguo
Ah, fair enough. Apologies for an unintentionally hostile tone.

------
hsnewman
In my humble opinion, the 1st roadster was much, much better looking.

------
sergers
I'm a Tesla skeptic for model 3 success, but this is badass.

If I was in the market for a car that I couldn't take advantage of driving
legally, and had 200k laying around, would definitely buy lol

------
jesusthatsgreat
Why is it that concept car designers insist on _not_ adding wing mirrors or
else tiny little stalks that are significantly smaller than production wing
mirrors? Every damn time...

~~~
JohnGB
In this case, it's probably due to aerodynamic considerations.

------
gist
Multiple Porsche owner here. The acceleration on the Roadster is great
obviously, however the sound of a car (or in this case lack of it) is
definitely a factor in the experience.

------
jxramos
I was wondering recently what happened to all the first generation roadsters?
I used to see them frequently enough but they've been hiding from the road a
long time it feels.

------
wybiral
"quickest car in the world" is an interesting choice of word.

Is that to stand out from the slogan tropes like "fastest car in the world" /
"fastest in its class"?

~~~
delish
“Quickest” in auto-journalism typically refers to acceleration. So 0-60.
“Fastest” typically refers to top speed. So e.g. 250mph.

~~~
wybiral
Thanks. I didn't know that distinction.

------
badloginagain
At what speed/acceleration can you put wings on the thing and be able to fly?
I wouldn't put it past Elon for his master plan to include flying cars.

------
jfoster
I don't see autopilot or any sort of autonomy mentioned for the new Roadster.
That sort of makes sense, but I'm also a bit disappointed about it.

~~~
grkvlt
Today, the fastest lap time of the Nurburgring by an electric car was set by a
Tesla Roadster driving itself round the track in 8m30s. The autopilot software
developers are said to be 'very proud' of the achievement.

------
jsoltren
No side view mirrors! That helps tremendously with aerodynamics. I wonder if
they used cameras and displays. Even the new Ford GT has mirrors.

~~~
jabretti
Let's see if that makes it from prototype to production, though; if you could
meet the legal requirements with cameras and displays I think someone else
would have done it by now.

Concept cars often lack mirrors, or have ridiculously small mirrors that
wouldn't be legal. Apparently car designers really just don't like adding
them.

------
hw
Would ludicrous mode for the roadster go 0-60 in 1 second?

the 620 mile range is super impressive. How??? Or is it just that the roadster
is super light?

~~~
jabretti
You'd think that the ability for the wheels to deliver power to the ground has
to be the limiting factor at some point.

~~~
travisjungroth
Most sports cars are at that point at low speeds and either need a skillful
foot or an electronic system to prevent burning out. A 1.9 second 0-60 is
pretty much the limit on street tires (and requires AWD). Someone will take it
even further by putting drag slicks on there.

------
Hurtak
Are people just not testing their websites on non Apple devices or why are
there 2 vertical scrollbars next to each other?

------
lafar6502
Hey, how do you call a guy who takes people money for future orders without
delivering on the ones already taken?

------
urda
Tesla can barely ship the Model 3, and now they're adding yet another consumer
vehicle to the lineup?

Tesla's vision is completely scattered. I have little faith in them at this
time since they can't deliver the "economy" Model 3, but now suddenly have the
bandwidth to develop, engineer, ship, and maintain yet another car?

Tesla, ship the Model 3 at scale and then we'll talk.

~~~
jsolson
That was my initial reaction, but it leads to a question: do you stop doing
R&D (and shed talent as a result) because production in another part of the
company is blocked by some (hopefully transient) supply chain issue?

~~~
urda
Preface: I don't have any stake in Tesla's success or products.

If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be _pissed_ that
they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at
scale.

This makes Tesla look like they care little, because after all they already
have your Model 3 money.

~~~
ktta
>If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be pissed that
they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at
scale.

I mean, by the same reasoning, Model S owners should be pissed, Model X owners
should be pissed too. But the money from both seems to have made Model 3
possible.

~~~
urda
True I haven't even touched on them either! Tesla has yet to prove they can
build cars at scale, they are nothing compared to current auto manufacturers.

I think they are biting off more than they can chew.

~~~
ktta
>I think they are biting off more than they can chew.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you about that. But we sure as hell
want to see them succeed.

~~~
urda
Same here! I love their tech and I can't wait to see Model 3 after Model 3.

... but damn it Tesla ship it!

------
api
Well here's my "exit event" car, should such a thing ever happen. :)

------
amelius
4 seats, but somehow I doubt it has more legspace than the average budget
airliner.

------
ender89
Putting a license plate on that would be like putting braces on the mona lisa.

------
_pmf_
I wonder how long the trick of masking problems with announcements will work.

------
danappelxx
Sorry, 10,000 nm of torque? This can't be real. edit: misunderstood

~~~
oppositelock
That's wheel torque, not engine torque. Existing high power cars, like the
Hellcat, exceed that number, at least in first gear. Hellcat makes 10875 Nm
(8021 ft-lb). That's 650 engine torque at peak, * 4.71:1 first gear ratio *
2.62:1 rear axle ratio.

Of course, electric engines have much flatter torque curve, so they'll be at
torque peak all the time until they exceed pack wattage limts.

~~~
danappelxx
Ahh, that makes more sense, then. Thanks for clarifying!

------
rkowalick
An 8.8 second 1/4 mile is crazy for any car, let alone a stock one.

------
namlem
Tesla should make a Formula E car. Clearly they have the tech.

------
petsagouris
No rear view mirrors ?

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Tesla has been trying to get laws changed to allow them to replace side
mirrors with cameras, as it's a major pain point for aerodynamics.

------
ChicagoDave
I thought this was hacker news. Not gearhead news. (:

------
anonytrary
This is half the top speed of a plane. Insane.

~~~
Robotbeat
Higher top speed than a Cessna.

------
johnwheeler
0-60 in less than 2 seconds. that’s insane.

------
mcs_
0-60 1.9 Why is this still a thing?

------
lost953
This feels like slide ware to me, and I know Tesla has achieved its goals in
the past, but color me at least a little skeptical.

------
largote
Still to see if it can do it over and over again like the sports cars it's
billed to compete against.

------
gigatexal
Want! Man. This is so cool!

------
erikb
Why are they introducing a new car? Have they solved the model 3 deployment
problems already?

------
zabana
That front-end tho

------
romanovcode
Wow, 200k for a car is pretty expensive.

~~~
oblio
The cars this model competes with are at least as expensive, if not more.

~~~
romanovcode
Gotta be honest here, if I would won a lottery to pick a car for 200k I would
choose between Porche GT, Mercedes AMG or BMW M3 any day over this tesla.

------
tomcam
What would be even cooler is if they could build the cars they’ve already
taken money for, and service the ones they have already sold.

------
mali9
How are they going to keep up with production on Roadster when Model 3
production itself is slow and low ?

~~~
steego
Are you asking how they're going to prioritize manufacturing a car with huge
margins over the low margin car?

I guess we'll never know.

------
Beltiras
I don't need to live in a house when I have a car like this do I? Think the
wife will buy that argument for selling the house and buying this car?

~~~
walru
Sell the wife. Buy the car. Best of both worlds.

~~~
Fraterkes
Funniest people on reddit right here

------
shmerl
_> 250mph_

Metric system, where are you?-)

~~~
perilunar
Everywhere but the US, apparently.

~~~
shmerl
It's supposedly "in progress", but there is no end in sight:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_Stat...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication_in_the_United_States)

------
gersh
Are they selling the reservations now? Is this about getting more cash to keep
funding their operations?

------
gt2
Off topic, but really nice website.

------
azifali
The specs are insane but it would be better if Tesla focuses on getting its
mass market car out in the market, in the hands of consumers.

------
ssijak
Is today 1. April?

~~~
acchow
I didn't hear any rumors about this at all. Is Tesla more secretive than
Apple?

~~~
kondro
Not hard to keep a secret when all you have are 3D renders.

~~~
samhunta
Also, an actual video of the Roadster in all of it's glory.

[https://twitter.com/DavidHodge/status/931391188065705984](https://twitter.com/DavidHodge/status/931391188065705984)

------
staunch
Apple needs to buy Tesla and run it better than Elon Musk can right now. He's
overloaded himself with responsibilities.

Apple could do a lot of good by applying their skills to such an important
problem. And Tesla's have been called "laptops on wheels" which has some truth
it. They have the money, people, and management skill to do it well. Tesla has
the industry lead that Apple needs to get in the race.

First thing Tim Cook would do is cancel the semi project, I'd guess. But maybe
not.

~~~
doug3465
> First thing Tim Cook would do is cancel the semi project, I'd guess.

Why?

~~~
johansch
It's too utilitarian and not aspirational enough.

------
evanlivingston
solving the world's important problems.

------
beedogs
$250k and it looks like a Nissan Z. Honestly, the old model roadster looked
much more distinctive.

~~~
pasta
Distinctive like a Lotus?

------
didess
Tesla is true leader in car.I just love it.

------
RickJWagner
Hmmmmm. Tesla seems on the edge of imploding, financially.

Then they announce this. (With reservations starting at $200k.)

I wouldn't put retirement money on that one.

------
kwhitefoot
But you have to get out of the car and remove the roof to use it as a
convertible. Then I think I'd stick with a BMW 438i convertible which takes
the entire roof down at the push of a button in about 20 seconds. Driving
isn't all about acceleration.

~~~
scott_karana
Modern Corvettes, and classic Porsche 911 Targas all have similar roofs. They
are less practical, but lighter, and sell well.

