

Google tech talk on Node.js - mcantelon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6k8lTrAE2g

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sh1mmer
I think this says a lot about Google, from the intro:

 _"The first time I heard about Node.js I thought, What a crazy guy he's
trying to put JavaScript on the server when everybody is trying to put Java on
the client"_

Personally, I stopped trying to put Java on client in the mid-90s.

~~~
adolph
I think the comment was very Google specific. A couple of example projects
there are GWT, which compiles Java into JavaScript, and Android, which uses
the Java language compiled into Dalvik byte-code. In both cases, the Java
language is being used although they aren't attempting to place or use Java
(tm) VMs on the client site.

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pkulak
Node looks so promising. Every time I hear something about it I hit Google
hoping that by now there's a Rails or Django for Node, but there always just
seems to be a mass of 200-line projects, none of which I would be comfortable
starting a project on.

EDIT: Look what I found: <http://geddyjs.org/>

~~~
weixiyen
I really don't see the point of using frameworks (libraries are fine). You
should write your own. It's a lot easier than you think and you get full
understanding and control of your request/response cycle. Learning and
mastering somebody else's framework usually takes longer, and it may not solve
your specific use case all the time.

~~~
jacquesm
I really don't see the point of using cars (parts are fine). You should build
your own. It's a lot easier than you think and you get full understand and
control of your vehicle. Learning and mastering someone else's vehicle usually
takes longer and it may not solve your specific transportation needs all the
time.

Besides it being flat-out wrong that mastering a framework takes longer than
building one (you _will_ have to support it), the typical framework is a lot
larger than the code of the applications built on top of them.

Building a framework is a bit like writing a DSL, a good framework abstracts
out the work that would otherwise be duplicated many times over and will help
to standardise the codebases of various projects and will help to allow
integration of bits and pieces from different projects in a re-usable way.

There is a reason why rails, django, drupal and a bunch of others are wildly
popular, they save people oodles of time.

~~~
hackoder
Both the framework and no framework approaches have merit.

Choosing a framework limits your choices. If I'm using Django, it won't work
(or work well) with a non-rel backend. If I'm using jQuery and I need to
update one of the libraries (say jQuery UI) I might have to update jQuery as
well, etc.

What you think saves oodles of times doesn't always. The odd bug, the odd
crash etc that keeps popping up may have roots in the framework that you chose
and that you're using without having knowledge of its internals. The framework
might make your app much slower and cost you in terms of hardware.

Not using a framework is harder work initially, but with the right libraries
it isn't that big of a leap. Picking up a smaller framework with libraries can
be a surprisingly easy and a lot more flexible when your needs end up being
different from what the framework intended.

Ofcourse, there is a flip side to it all and I understand your point :) Micro-
frameworks are the best IMO, not the beasts that Rails/Django are.

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rafaelc
This is awesome. There's also a great virtual panel on some of the most
popular Node.js projects on GitHub. Here's the link:
<http://www.infoq.com/articles/nodejs-frameworks>

~~~
js4all
The InfoQ panel gives a great overview. Thanks.

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jacquesm
I'm all for the wild explosion of new tech, that said when the time rolls
around to pick a toolset for building a new application I'll invariably do a
step back and I'll pick something that has been around for a couple of years.

The reason is fairly simple, new stuff usually contains tons of bugs and it
remains to be seen if it is still going to be around a few years down the
road.

I'm a coward that way, but when my income is on the line I don't want to be
beta testing someone else's code without having a very good chance that the
problem I'm trying to find is mine and not some bug in underlying code.

For hobby stuff and learning I love to play around with new things, as soon as
it is 'business' I'm a lot more conservative.

~~~
bnoordhuis
I'm somewhat involved in the development of Node. It's a fast-moving project,
with the occasional bug and an API that is still in flux. You might not want
to build your billion dollar enterprise on it and one could hardly blame you.

That being said, Node has a strong community and a lot of momentum. There are
some big name companies like Yahoo and Plurk that use Node today to build
stuff that matters.

~~~
jacquesm
Ok, I'll take it for a test drive.

