

Ask HN: A recent graduate, how do I get over regret of not doing internships? - tuscarok

I have just graduated with a PhD in CS from a top world university. I never did any internships during my studies because I always thought the PhD should take priority. Now I&#x27;m beginning to realise that this was a mistake. My friends who did internships with the likes of Google&#x2F;Microsoft are now walking into top notch, high-paying jobs, while I am being rejected at every turn. This is probably because I have little interview experience and also because I just don&#x27;t look as good as someone with top name brands on their CV. I feel I&#x27;m being left behind in the dust.<p>I guess I&#x27;m just looking for some motivation here.<p>I don&#x27;t really have a portfolio, but I have expertise. Unfortunately that expertise is not taken into account when trying to get a foot in the door of one of these tech companies. But having one of the big names on your CV acts as a springboard to a great career.
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gumby
Don't worry about it. As notahacker said most people didn't get those
internships either. And really what you're saying is that those internships
helped people get their first real gig. You have a gig, so you can make use of
it too.

Three things you can do: 1 - Ask your advisor or other profs from your
department for referrals. These should be better even than a big company
internship 2 - Keep pugging your CV out, and when get the rejection, ask why.
Most people won't tell you (either can't be bothered or, in the US, fear of
legal reprisal) but some will and you can use that to improve process 3 -
Build a portfolio (yes, same as a new grad or even an undergrad). For many
people a PhD is a _negative_ because many PhDs have excellent theoretical
knowledge but no actual implementation skills (what's needed for a thesis can
be harder but also a lot simpler / easier than what's needed to write
something used by actual users). So turn that around: "I did my dissertation
on compilers/OS/network routing/XXX and look, here's a project that some
people are using and that is real and solid"

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Mimu
First I would say that having a big name surely help to start land a first
job, however once you're in, you can definitely have a great career
nonetheless.

I did not have a PhD and I don't know the US equivalent for what I have -
Master - (I'm french), however even though I did some internship, I chose them
poorly and it did not allow me to get relevant experience. Note to students:
Don't choose your firsts internships poorly, you'll regret it.

So I started doing personal project and phone call started to ring after I put
Nodejs and Angular in my resume even though I just did some useless shit with
it, and wasn't ready at all for productive work. Luckily enough, a recruiter
working for a startup pass me along a test that wasn't for me, and I did it
better than the original dude so I got my first job.

TLDR: Use your expertise to make some work that you can show / advertise. It
doesn't have to be professional work, I would assume most people will not go
in depth before calling you if it's relevant to them.

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BrandonBradley
I had this problem after undergrad in 2008. I did no internships during my
college years, taking summer courses instead to 'catch up and graduate early'.
Big mistake? Maybe. But I'm having a good career nonetheless. You are likely
to have a much different experience than your friends (who are probably also
your CS peers). Your comparisons of yourself to them will only take you so far
in evaluating what you should be doing. And not very far.

You do have a portfolio! You have eight years of schooling with possibly
interesting projects. You may have even worked on a project in that course of
time in collaboration with a real company. Congrats, you may have some real
world experience!

From this point, landing your first job is the most important thing. Local
companies would love your expertise and can train you to work on their
systems. Tell us your local area and maybe someone can help.

Want to chat more? I work in the cryptocurrency space. bradleytastic@gmail.com

------
notahacker
Don't forget, if you had set your sights on getting an internship with
Google/Microsoft there was a significant chance you'd have failed to get the
internship there too if they preferred others' cover letters or had met their
quota by the time they saw your application. Just as with paid work, they're
not short of applicants.

Good news is, they need the full time employees more, they won't care at all
about internships when you've got valuable real-life experience, and you get a
lot of opportunities to reapply to companies that size in future.

------
temp-reply
If you're a top flight PhD it's more likely that people are saying "meh" than
"Lord, no" to your application. Lack of relevant experience can often be
completely compensated for by (1) enthusiasm and (2) good fit, especially at
the the smaller, more intimate companies. If you're seriously facing constant
rejection it's more likely that you have one or several of a host of generic
problems that plague applicants and bring on the "meh", such as:

\- Cover letter too generic. Fails to identify (1) the company, (2) what it
does, (3) why you specifically are a great fit for the specific position you
are applying to

\- Forgot to sculpt your CV to fit the narrative of your cover letter. The CV
isn't some static life scoresheet, it's a short story that changes between
applications.

\- Responds to questions designed to test the outer limits of your knowledge
by getting anxious, inventive, and defensive, instead of taking it as an
opportunity to (1) acknowledge your lack of expertise, (2) describe a creative
application of related relevant experience, and (3) state your eagerness to
learn the specific topic they were asking about.

\- Apologized for yourself in the interview in any way. Why don't you have
more internship experience? GOOD: "Well, I was interested in really focusing
on my thesis at the time, but now I want to work in the private sector, and
this role in particular really intrigues me. It's actually relevant to what I
was doing before in that..." BAD: "Er, well, I don't know, haha, probably
should have? Sorry..." Apologies are off-topic. They interrupt your narrative.
Don't apologize.

\- No proofreading + chance encounter with grammar nut. (But your comment was
really elegantly written, so I doubt that's your problem.) Sloppy dresser +
chance encounter with sartorial nut. Etc. Don't give some meanie a reason to
reject you. Don't break the spell of your story.

\- Didn't have any good questions at the end of the interview. Questions
traditionally go at the end and in some ways it's unfair to do this to people,
because by then they're usually enervated and ready to bolt... but this is the
GRAND FINALE, the point where you REALLY need to drive the narrative home.

Lots of people are going to tell you to practice technical interviewing and
that's important, but be sure not to neglect the NARRATIVE element of the
application. Identify the company, identify you, explain why it's a perfect
match. Repeat the same narrative in the CV, the resume, the interview, and the
thank you note. That's how you defeat "meh".

~~~
tuscarok
Thank you. Just to confirm, I have a good job (in my research field), but it's
paying half as much as I'd get from the top tech companies, and that's what's
killing me. I guess I wish I had started on a much higher salary, because it
can only go up from there. It's the top tier companies that are rejecting me.

~~~
Bahamut
It's up to you to put in the effort to make yourself a compelling hire.

I have a MS from a top math program, and I languished for 2.5 years
unemployed. I was fortunate enough to land a first job in frontend web
development & invested countless hours learning & experimenting on and off the
job. I do quite well now financially, and am satisfied with where I am at.

Since you're employed, your career is up to you. Some people luck into high
powered salary tracks off the bat - for the rest of us, hard & smart work is
necessary to compensate.

