

Fedora 20 released - drill_sarge
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/20/html/Release_Notes/index.html
Download: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dl.fedoraproject.org&#x2F;pub&#x2F;fedora&#x2F;linux&#x2F;releases&#x2F;20&#x2F;<p>More mirrors here, but not all servers are synced with 20 yet:
https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mirrors.fedoraproject.org&#x2F;publiclist&#x2F;Fedora&#x2F;20&#x2F;<p>No announcement yet, link in title leads to release notes.
======
wcchandler
Here are the torrents:
[http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/](http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/)

x86_64 DVD:
[http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-x86_64-D...](http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-x86_64-DVD.torrent)

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:724bcc8a53b854daa844e6bc204b95124a1074d6&dn=Fedora-20-x86%5F64-DVD&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.fedoraproject.org%3A6969%2Fannounce

i386 DVD:
[http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-i386-DVD...](http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Fedora-20-i386-DVD.torrent)

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d6d123d9a9b108971ecb09ca6593d2593cd564a4&dn=Fedora-20-i386-DVD&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftorrent.fedoraproject.org%3A6969%2Fannounce

------
Sanddancer
Seeing the removal of syslogd, getting more than a bit grumpy here at the
continuing direction Redhat is dragging the Linux world. Journald may serve
the basic user well, it can't do half the stuff a good syslogd configuration
can do; it can't pipe messages to other processes, it can't send messages to
remote servers, it can't send messages to multiple places. If redhat had put
in services to let journald do the things syslogd's been able to do since
forever, I'd be more ok with its direction, but as it stands, it's proprietary
in all but name.

~~~
andor
It's not a direct replacement. Journald does stuff that syslog can't do, but
it doesn't reimplement everything. Instead, you can pipe to syslog if you want
syslog features.

\- Journald logs the whole boot process

\- Journald can make sure that an item really came from some process. It also
tries to seal the journal so that it can't be tempered with.

\- It's built into the other systemd tools. For example, when you notice a
daemon doesn't start through systemctl, it'll show you the error messages in
systemctl status.

~~~
hdevalence
Note that the second point is quite important -- it provides a rolling hash of
the journal contents that you can send to another machine, so that in the
event of a break-in, you can detect any tampering with the syslogs. As I
recall, this was inspired by the break-in to the kernel.org servers, where the
attacker tampered with the log files. That would be impossible with journald.

~~~
Sanddancer
There are syslog daemons that can provide cryptographic security as well.
Alternatively, they can also log directly to an SQL database, use SSL client
certificates, etc. Modern syslog daemons are quite powerful.

~~~
mateuszf
Yeah, but journald works even on plain stdout, stderr. It's hard to beat that.

------
jops
With Gnome 3.10. Nice. Even nicer with the Phosphene theme:
[http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png](http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png)
\- [https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene](https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene)

~~~
cones688
Looks really nice! How jarring are non flat designed windows such as
chrome/evolution etc? Do they look a bit "too" ill fitting?

------
gary4gar
Ruby Devs, Take note, Fedora 20 has ruby 2 & rails 4 available. to get started
with rails, all you need to do is:

    
    
       yum install rubygem-rails
    

and Bam, it will install latest ruby, rails & other dependencies. That's not
all, they have more than 2thousand ruby related packages(all recent versions).

Fedora seems to have one of best ruby support. Way to go!

[https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby](https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby)

~~~
yapcguy
How does one decide whether to install from a package repository, or directly
via gems?

What's the typical time lag before a package get updated after a gem does?

~~~
vinceguidry
I avoid package gems like the plague. It makes dependency management a
gigantic pain in the ass and forces you to target your code to a specific
version of an operating system. You can't take a system that works just fine
in Fedora and move it to Debian without making sure the gem version
differences don't break anything.

In today's cloud-based hosting environment, you want to preserve mobility
whenever possible, and Bundler does a better job of managing Ruby dependencies
than dpkg/yum does. You can then use configuration management to get a system
bootstrapped to a base where all your Ruby projects can run, then Bundler can
take care of project-specific dependencies. It's not perfect, a lot of times a
project gem will require system dependencies, like MySQL, but the separation
of concerns does help a bit.

You should, however, use system Ruby because using RVM / Rbenv in production
vastly increases complexity, and because the system dependencies that your
gems have will be the right versions. It's much easier now that the latest
Ubuntu packages Ruby 2. It took me all of an afternoon to redo the
configuration management and provisioning and migrate my projects when Ubuntu
13.10 came out.

------
dschiptsov
''syslog is no longer included in default installations. journald logging
serves most use cases as well as, or better than, syslogd.''

I think it has lots in common with this:

"Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the
JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very
fast, modular and lightweight server."

keep producing more and more bloatware, without any other reasons than
"because we have done it".

I think that blindly allowing freedesktop guys to mess up all the traditional
Unix startup and now logging tools with some MS-inspired crap for a very
questionable reasons is quite a step back.

It is also an example of an over-engineering bias (which comes from OO-only
approach) - building up an unnecessary complexity. syslog and shell script
based startup procedure are good-enough (and still good enough for sane
systems such as BSDs or Plan9), while those who need a specialized logging (or
startup) service could create it for themselves, as so many do.

Changing reasonable defaults just because someone is cocksure that we need
more xxxxctl and xxxxx-bridge instead of plain old text-files looks like
ignorant over-confidence. Those who cannot live without journald could install
it manually, why to cause a headache to the rest of us.

I do remember that commercial variant of Suse Linux have tried "an innovative
approach" to what a Linux server is. They introduced a set of some in-house
made utilities (inspired by Netware I suppose) with non-intuitive logic and
millions of command line options no one knows (which cannot be googled). Why,
it is a way to success, now you could teach courses, do certification, issue
meaningless titles, etc. Thank god its dead. ESX servers, btw, were (or still
are) even bigger mess.

I doubt that Fedora is going this way, but the signs are bad.)

~~~
veeti
What the fuck are you going on about? WildFly is now included as an _available
package for install in the repositories_. This is why it is in the release
notes.

This is like complaining that any disto is "bloatware" because their
repositories include software that you happen to dislike and think is "bloat".
$distro is bloated because KDE/GNOME/whatever is an option, right?

Get a grip.

~~~
dschiptsov
Please, let's not discuss Java EE.)

~~~
meddlepal
I don't know what experience you have with modern Java EE, but it's incredibly
modular these days and is no more than a collection of components that can
operate independent of each other.

~~~
dschiptsov
Of course, I am nobody to criticize the sacred things, so there are few links
to the people who are worth of paying attention to (and who gave us golang).

[http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/java](http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/java)
[http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming](http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/OO_programming)

~~~
factorizer
So with a handful of out of context citations and some rather retarded points
of view (Greenspun WTF?) you are trying to convince people? Really? At least
give it _some_ effort. This way it is rather boring...

~~~
meddlepal
I just gathered that he's a PL design and theory zealot.

------
rogerthis
Just for the record:

\- I've been using Fedora (VM, test, production server) since release 4 or 5.
\- I have a VM that has been updated without full reinstall since release 11.
It will be destroyed soon, as I'm reinstalling the host. \- I've been using
Fedora as my main desktop since Fedora 16.

My experience varies, depending on the sh*t they decide to push (like Gnome 3
or systemd). It takes time so that things get stable (or I get more used to
them).

As a full stack developer, I almost never use distro packages like gems or
python libs or java libs. Even tools like Eclipse I prefer to install them
separated.

Overall, I'm satisfied.

------
broodbucket
What excellent docs, I don't think I've ever read all the release notes like
that. I'm wooed, gonna install this on something.

------
reidrac
"Syslog removed from default installation" and "Users accustomed to checking
/var/log/messages for system logs should instead use journalctl."

I'm sure I'm going to forget about that... I can't wait for the first WTF :)

~~~
brokenparser
It's quite an audacious release note. As if millions of users are suddenly
going to forget about cat, head, tail, more, less, grep, awk, sed, fmt, etc.
etc. that are only still useful if you learn how to journalctl and convert
those binary logs back into plain text.

I'd like to install Fedora 20 and use it as my main desktop, but both systemd
and journald will somehow have to be avoided and worked around because I don't
want to touch those with a ten foot pole.

As far as mainstream Linux distributions go, it's like choosing between 2
evils nowadays:

* Ubuntu: decent base system, lousy desktop

* Fedora: lousy base system, decent desktop

The former is almost fixed by Elementary OS, but the latter I'm still looking
for a spin or derivative that fixes it. What attracts me most to these
mainstream distributions is the vast amount of available packages and their
ease of maintenance.

~~~
reidrac
I don't usually have the need to check syslog in my desktop, unless I'm doing
development, and in that case I will install syslog-ng (and systemctl enable
syslog-ng). Not a big deal.

As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora. Each release is supported for only 13
months and upgrades are not as seamless as in Debian.

So for me Fedora is a very decent desktop if you want the new shinies with
ease of use. Most of the time works and it's great (even with the "Gnome 3
surprise factor", that keep _breaking_ things every now and then).

~~~
cones688
> As for servers, I wouldn't use Fedora.

That's what RedHat (or CentOS) is for...

~~~
brokenparser
Or Scientific Linux.

------
kolme
Also note, this is the first Distro (that I know of) that is resolution-
independent out of the box -- thanks to Gnome 3.10.

Retina and retina-like users rejoice!

~~~
aeroevan
OpenSUSE 13.1 released with GNOME 3.10 already :P

~~~
adrianlmm
OpenSUSE renders the fonts horrible, I don't know why is that.

------
drill_sarge
Download:
[https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/](https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/)

More mirrors here, but not all servers are synced with 20 yet:
[https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/](https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/20/)

No announcement yet, link in title leads to release notes.

------
adrianlmm
Quick question:

Anyone has succeeded dual botting Fedora 20 with Windows 8.1 in a UEFI system
with secure boot?

When I tried the beta it made Windows 8.1 unbootable.

~~~
voltagex_
Are you sure it didn't just replace the UEFI default boot entry? You should
still be able to boot Windows after getting into GRUB, but if it messed up
your EFI partition, that's a bug.

~~~
adrianlmm
That's what it did, it messed with my EFI partition, so, that's why Im askin
if someone has succeded with the latest reléase.

------
brokenparser
Direct link to ISO:

[http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/...](http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/20/Live/x86_64/Fedora-
Live-Desktop-x86_64-20-1.iso)

(Might still give a 404 until your mirror is in sync.)

------
tux
Alternative Mirror;
[http://fedora.mirror.nexicom.net/linux/releases/20/](http://fedora.mirror.nexicom.net/linux/releases/20/)

------
justincormack
Better update, I am behind. I run Fedora on my powerpc machine (Mac Pro) as it
is the only distro (well and RH itself) with decent ppc64 support, as IBM pays
Redhat still.

------
_sabe_
While on the topic, does any one have a good strategy for building the
gstreamer-bad/ugly plugins on Fedora? I don't like the rpmfusion repository as
it always seems to mess up the system sooner or later.

~~~
rwmj
I always have rpmfusion ([http://rpmfusion.org/](http://rpmfusion.org/))
enabled, and I've never seen it mess up anything.

------
chatman
This is great. :-) This is still in beta.

