
Why Do People with Depression Like Listening to Sad Music? - charlieirish
https://digest.bps.org.uk/2019/04/24/why-do-people-with-depression-like-listening-to-sad-music/
======
swombat
My experience of this was that the sad music could connect to where I was, and
once I had connected, I could actually slowly shift my mood by gradually
changing the music (had to be gradual though).

I kind of stumbled on that, and it worked for me, though in hindsight I can
see how it could be seen as a form of musical therapy.

The really essential point though, is that in order for this to work I had to
begin with songs that actually matched my low mood (Radiohead and Portishead
seemed to consistently do the trick)... trying to shift out of a low mood by
playing a happy song directly did not work - it was just jarring.

I imagine that in doing so I was unconsciously reproducing one of the best
impacts of certain kinds of therapy: creating the acknowledgement that yes, I
feel the way I feel, that is mirrored by my environment in some way, and it’s
not something I need to hide or feel shame about. The music helped me feel
that without needing to reveal anything about myself.

~~~
yathern
I've been doing this for years! I have a dozen or so playlists that start off
with very sad music, become melancholy, then bittersweet, then hopeful, and
finally happy.

Almost always does the trick! But you have to have time to kill.

The way I see it is like rescuing someone stuck on the ocean floor. You can't
just bring them up! Your body has to adjust to the changing pressure. Slowly
and slowly you change the mood, allowing time to ease in.

~~~
marssaxman
This works in conversation, too. There's something powerful about the
experience of diving down to meet someone in the low place they're sitting in,
while keeping a bit of yourself apart as a lifeline - you can sync up with
them by observing and validating the way the world looks to them from that
hurt or scared place, then, step by step, help bring them closer to the
surface by suggesting a little bit of a broader view at each turn in the
conversation.

But yes: you really do have to have some time to kill, and it can be tricky to
set up an environment in which a sustained, unpressured conversation can
occur.

(What you are describing with your playlists sounds like the soul of DJing.
Perhaps you might try playing with a controller sometime, if you haven't done
so already.)

~~~
neuralRiot
Not only in conversation, it's the way to bring people where you want
emotionally, be it music, poetry, cinema or any form of art.

------
e12e
My first thought seeing the headline was of this quote:

"What came first – the music or the misery? Did I listen to the music because
I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to the music? Do all
those records turn you into a melancholy person?"

\- Nick Hornby, High Fidelity

Also relevant from the book:

"People worry about kids playing with guns, and teenagers watching violent
videos; we are scared that some sort of culture of violence will take them
over. Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands - literally thousands -
of songs about broken hearts and rejection and pain and misery and loss."

~~~
b_tterc_p
Maybe I’m wrong but broken heart sad seems a lot more transient than older
generations of sad music like, say, Pink Floyd’s The Wall and The Final Cut. I
would wager it’s really not a problem.

~~~
coldtea
Floyd have their own broken heart sad songs (Wish you where here, nobody home,
and lotsa others). Though the Final Cut was a flop, and barely listened
to/mentioned today, so kind of transient itself.

But of course tons of 70s and 60s era music are "broken heart sad" as well --
it's not like some unique today phenomenon. Broken heart sad takes a good 50%
of all songs since time immemorial...

If anything, today it's not "broken heart sad" anymore, but some hip-hop/pop
version of "how cool/rich I am" or "how badass I am", looking at the charts.

~~~
rednerrus
Wish you were here is not a broken heart sad song. It's about disillusionment.

~~~
coldtea
Not broken heart from a lover, but broken heart about a friend. Still a broken
heart.

~~~
gb221
Syd Barrett supposedly

------
ravenstine
In my experience, music that matches my mood makes me fee less alone.

I had some tough times when I was a teenager, and didn't seriously get into
music until I discovered Rammstein(my favorite band to this day). To most
people, it's very brutal sounding, often angry, sometimes depressing. My
parents had no idea why I listened to some German guy growling in front of
"rock music".

My whole world was changed because, finally, _someone else expressed how I
feel_. Now, the lyrics themselves are often grotesque or even silly, but I
didn't understand most of it and what they were saying didn't matter to me
anyway. I was comforted by the fact that these guys could put into music what
I could fail to put into words or deal with in my own life.

Simply speaking, I find such music to be _cathartic_. Actually, lots of
different moods of music can be cathartic, but negative music sticks out in
that category because we're expected to listen to music that "lifts us up". I
think that's why I actually become _more_ depressed by listening to happy
music when I'm sad; it's as if the world is telling me that I _shouldn 't_
feel the way that I do. Having my feelings recognized by music is about as
good as having someone tell me that it's okay to feel bad about my situation.

------
0_gravitas
I think it goes further than just music.

There is something that I have noticed in my life, when it comes to the people
I'm drawn to and the people that are drawn to me. We all tend to share a
particular similarity, in that we end up being 'darker' people in one way or
another. When I say 'dark' I dont really mean like 'emo' or 'goth', but in the
way that our humors are usually darker, and we all have either dealt with or
are dealing with some kind of despair. I think it's a feeling of 'not being
alone' when you are with someone who 'gets it', and it's a sort of warmth that
you dont come across much in the day to day. I dont think dark people just
like dark music, I think dark people like other dark people.

~~~
_jal
That's generally been my experience, too. I have had depressive stretches and
pulled out of them, but have always been consistently a "dark" person. Dark
doesn't mean unhappy.

It isn't that I "only see negatives", as I've been told endlessly, or just
have a dark sense of humor. It is also related being relatively good at
security analysis, architecture and troubleshooting - I tend to naturally
focus on faults and limits, and reach for a systemic view first. And any time
you look at human systems, that's depressing. (That was a joke, there.)

Musically, I used to be more exclusively "dark". That's changed as I've gotten
older, but I still find most pop grating. The last few months I've been more
on an active listening jag, after thinking I noticed Erik Satie-ish influences
on Brian Eno, and then Laurie Anderson and Robert Fripp. (Eno acknowledged
this in something I read, I'm less sure about Anderson. Fripp may have just
been responding to Eno.)

~~~
randcraw
I think the emphasis on faults and limits rather than on the peak of the bell
curve (where 'normal' people reside) is the hallmark of critical thinking in
general.

Circumspection isn't a 'dark' perspective per se, but one that deliberately
resists 'going with the flow', which is assumed by all promotional efforts
like PR and advertising. The conventional 'embracing of the light' is
inseparable from groupthink, IMHO.

Any excess of optimism or advocacy raises my inner defenses and sets off alarm
bells. In this, The Age Of The Internet, that thinking isn't 'dark'; it should
be common sense. But it's all too uncommon, I fear.

------
CiPHPerCoder
Responding to the headline: Because depression isn't sadness, it's a mental
illness that causes a numbing, hollowing feeling that robs you of joy. In my
experience, it's more akin to _despair_ than sorrow.

Feeling _anything_ (even sadness) can help make it easier to cope with it if
you're unable to seek effective treatment.

Which is most people, probably. Most people I know who have depression can't
(or won't) seek effective treatment, usually because of cost prohibition.

------
pmx
Purely anecdotal but when I'm feeling down / sad I find that happy music
annoys me where as sad music soothes me. Music too far out of my current
mindset clashes with it and causes negative feelings in me.

------
beat
As a songwriter, I wonder why I write so many sad songs. Like, a _lot_ of
them. Really, really sad songs.

I just wrote one last week, inspired by a scene from a science fiction novel.
It tells the story of a small fleet of spaceships fleeing a doomed Earth for
the stars, and one ship attacking the rest and killing their crews in order to
steal their fuel and spare parts. It's not just that what they did is a
crime... they knew it was wrong, did it anyway, and feel terrible about it,
but they also knew that if they didn't do it, another ship would have done it
to them. So it's all guilt and shame from making a totally selfish decision.

Why would I write that way? And it's not like this is an unusual subject for
me.

Part of it, I think, is that I do a very good job of covering up some deep
depression in my day-to-day life. I'm a much sadder person than I appear to
be.

~~~
moosey
> they knew it was wrong

I know which book series this was part of, and this action was the correct one
to take. I feel as if the entire point of the book is that at some point, we
need to make collective decisions, and when we do so, we all need to share in
the responsibility of those decisions.

The decision not to protect each human life as some kind of infinite well of
value is an unusually narcissistic form of collectivism, I think, and only
possible in highly developed nations. I believe that at some point, the
reality of resource depletion or pollution, possibly war, will come to a head,
and we will have to abandon this view.

~~~
bloogsy
What book series is this from? Or even better, what specific book? I'd be keen
to read it.

~~~
beat
_The Three Body Problem_ , by Cixin Liu. The scene is actually from the second
book in the trilogy, _The Dark Forest_ , but they are really meant to be read
in order, and I don't think _The Dark Forest_ would make much sense without
reading _The Three Body Problem_ first.

Outstanding books, highly recommended if you like old-school hard science
fiction. I'm currently reading the third book in the trilogy. But when I read
this one scene... I had a song a day later. It really knocked me out.

------
soylentcola
Because "sad songs say so much" as Elton put it. It's probably considered a
bit corny now, but it's dead-on.

"From the lips of some old singer

We can share the troubles we already know

...

If someone else is suffering enough oh to write it down

When every single word makes sense

Then it's easier to have those songs around

The kick inside is in the line that finally gets to you

And it feels so good to hurt so bad

And suffer just enough to sing the blues"

~~~
PavlovsCat
When I write lyrics, it's only ever because something frustrates me. And I
love serious lyrics in general... but I'm also _really_ grateful for people
who just see the good in the world and sing about it, like Bob Ross, but for
music. That's just not me though.

> _If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for
> comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful
> thinking to begin, and in the end, despair._

\-- C. S. Lewis

> _Altogether, I think we ought to read only books that bite and sting us. If
> the book does not shake us awake like a blow to the skull, why bother
> reading it in the first place? So that it can make us happy, as you put it?
> Good God, we 'd be just as happy if we had no books at all; books that make
> us happy we could, in a pinch, also write ourselves. [..] A book must be the
> ax for the frozen sea within us. That is what I believe._

\-- Franz Kafka

> _You don 't write those books because you hope those things will happen. You
> write those books because you think they might happen.. but you'd rather
> they didn't._

\-- Margaret Atwood

Such are the thoughts with which I console myself, but still, this is the kind
of person I make my stuff, which is solely "against", _for_ :

> _To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on
> the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of
> compassion, sacriﬁce, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this
> complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it
> destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places
> — and there are so many — where people have behaved magniﬁcently, this gives
> us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning
> top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small
> a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an
> inﬁnite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings
> should live, in deﬁance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous
> victory._

\-- Howard Zinn

------
MlkedChocolate
If something hurts, we usually stop doing it (feedback loop), unless there is
something else at play: some short term positives, like taking drugs. So
depression (even without music) persists because it actually feels good in the
short term. I remember when I was a child, and was crying, I could cry myself
even more, by just thinking negative thoughts, it kinda felt good to
'release'. Music amplifies this, so I would say this is why depressed people
'enjoy' sad music. Then, I was taught not to have self-pity, and didn't really
care to be sad any longer. Instead I chose to solve the problems or move on if
they're not solvable.

It's helped me. What do you think?

------
misterman0
I can relate to pop music just fine but those tunes are shallow compared to
the information packed songs from Radiohead. But I've never loved Radiohead
for their melancholy. Only for their outstanding musical abilities. They also
seem to be bright, clever, intelligent even, judging from their lyrics and
interviews. I don't consider them dark. I consider them bright.

I've been depressed tons of times. I'm bipolar, they tell me. But even outside
of a depressive state I return to those artists that try a little harder than
those who aim for the top lists.

I think most other people who are depressive by nature, when they feel good
about themselves they shy away from things that remind them of themselves in a
depressive state. But I love being depressed. It's a much better feeling than
being manic.

~~~
benc666
Electric Light Orchestra. Music with a futuristic, but mixed pessimistic and
bright outlook. And the orchestral contribution makes the backbone of it.

If you like Science Fiction (especially reading it) you might like this too.

------
AdmiralAsshat
It always seemed self-evident to me that people who are depressed generally
dislike being entrenched in "happy" settings (e.g. seeing happier people
around them) because it reinforces feelings of isolation. I don't see why
music would be any different.

Put another way, misery loves company.

------
maxxxxx
Same with depressing literature. When I am in depressed mood then
listening/reading depressing material gives me peace. When you have depression
you generally don’t get much acceptance so it’s nice to be allowed to be as
you are and not constantly being told “lighten up”.

------
pavon
When I'm fairly depressed, my goal is just to get to neutral. Trying to skip
strait to happy is counter-productive. In that state of mind, happiness
doesn't seem attainable or even real, it is a lie and a facade. Trying to talk
myself into being happy is at best empty hype, as I can't genuinely embrace or
believe the words I am saying. Happy music, or happy environments are likewise
unembracable. When surrounded by them when depressed, I inevitably just
retract into my head. This is a waste of time at best - being around people or
participating in an activity but not present or enjoying it. At worst it can
lead to spiraling negative thoughts that drag me deeper down.

Listening to "sad" music on the other hand can be very theraputic. Sometimes,
it intensifies the feelings, confronting them, pushing through them, burning
them inside of me. Othertimes, I melt into the music, letting go of my
thoughts and feelings, letting them seep calmly out of me. I think it partly
depends on exactly how I'm feeling: self-hatred or hopelessness or numb.
Either way I come out the other end with a sense of relief, and evened out.

At this point I can move onto activities that are enjoyable, but not ones that
are taxing (eg socializing) or which require lots of decisions to second-guess
(eg coding), or can be frustrating (eg video games). For example, reading or
whittling are good stepping-stone activities for me. Listening to upbeat music
at this point can also help to continue the progression to a happier state,
but I have to be careful not to overshoot with music that is too happy or
driving.

------
formalsystem
My impression is that sad music tends to have more substance than happy music.
Happy pop music is especially guilty of this where: "it's the summer, everyone
is having a good time etc..."

I'm really drawn to metal because it creates something beautiful out of
difficult emotions. I actually don't get the association to anger at all, it's
like saying people who like watching action movies are psychopaths.

I would argue that more art is rooted in pain than in happiness.

~~~
asark
Fundamentally, there's no _narrative_ , in the sense of a story or an
emotional journey, without conflict. Luke may blow up the Death Star, but
Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru got BBQ'd, Obi Wan died, and a lot of friendly pilots
were vaporized along the way. And that's a relatively _happy_ movie.

Moreover, to the extent that art is to help us grapple with difficult things,
well... happiness isn't that difficult. Now, good circumstances but unhappy
anyway? Then you've got something to build a story on.

------
markbnine
My dad often said, "When you are cold, eat ice cream. It lowers your mean
temperature."

That said, we always knew he just wanted ice cream.

------
egypturnash
Personally I find that I can use certain sad music to push _through_ vague
mopey depression into a state where I can _do_ something about it.

If I just sit there being sad and useless I’m gonna start feeling sad about
how long I’ve been sitting there _moping_ and it’s a horrible downward spiral.

If I lay there on the floor in the dark with headphones on listening to a
double album full of exquisitely constructed instrumental crystals of
particular flavors of sadness then I am likely to actually start _crying_ and
find some _release_ from the endless circles around the mental drain. Or I
might also start laughing at what a caricature of an emotion I’m being by
doing this - and then the sadness is banished in another way.

Aphex Twin’s “Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2” is my go-to album for this.
That or Nine Inch Nails if I want to be more angry. Which probably tells you a
lot about my age.

~~~
mediaman
Getting sad enough to cry is a good technique, because tears from strong
emotion have been found to carry stress hormones with them out of the body.

Crying also releases endorphins which can help you recover from a feeling of
sadness.

So yes, it's pretty reasonable to feel mopey but unable to extricate yourself
until and unless you can push yourself far enough to cry, at which your body's
own biology lifts you out of feeling mopey.

------
TaupeRanger
As usual in reporting and PR around brain/mind science, the "why" question
posed in the title is not even remotely addressed or even approached by the
study. That would, of course, require a theory about why people feel things at
all, and why the feelings feel like they do and not some other way, which we
are still woefully ignorant about.

The greater (and more general) question here is: why do humans seek out things
that make them feel negative emotions? People watch horror movies wanting to
be scared. They watch romantic comedies knowing that they will cry sad tears
at some point. They read stories containing evil villains who kill and cause
great suffering.

------
massung
Doesn't this presume that "sad music" is - in fact - sad?

There's plenty of music I will sit and listen to that my daughter asks me to
turn off because it makes her sad, but I find very uplifting. Examples:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUpvEgJEn94](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUpvEgJEn94)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIcR7Xkysds](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIcR7Xkysds)

There are plenty of other examples as well. All the studies reveal to me is
that we're all wired a little different. Shocker.

~~~
jplayer01
Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. "Sad" songs make me feel better. I'm not
sure why.

~~~
randcraw
I think music is a mirror that provides contrast.

If the music is more depressing than you are, you feel less depressed. But if
the music is happier than you are, you appreciate that you're more unhappy,
and that makes you feel worse.

------
Zaphods
Is this that people with depression crave sad music, or that music meant to
elicit pathos has found its target audience?

> The controversial implication is that depressed people deliberately act in
> ways that are likely to maintain their low mood.

How is this remotely controversial? Finding something you like is not the same
as liking your state or disposition for depression.

> “… may reflect a desire for calming emotional experience rather than a
> desire to augment sad feelings.”

So, we've basically confirmed that people get pleasure out of liking things?
This study seems weird.

~~~
LesZedCB
Kurzgesagt had a really great video[1] on loneliness that described the
downward spiral that people find themselves in.

> > The controversial implication is that depressed people deliberately act in
> ways that are likely to maintain their low mood.

> How is this remotely controversial? Finding something you like is not the
> same as liking your state or disposition for depression.

i think that is controversial because it assigns agency to the person
experiencing the depression, that they are causing their own depression. but
the most common complaint from people with depression is that people are
always telling them to "just cheer up" etc etc. this is the same sentiment in
a specific context. "if you just didn't listen to depressing music all the
time, maybe you wouldn't be so depressed."

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA)

~~~
Zaphods
Now I think we're running into the strange alleyways in our concept of
depression. Do people with depression have _no_ agency in their depression? I
think it depends.

Depression can be a disposition, ie. someone is disposed to being depressed
but not _always_ depressed.

Depression can be a mental state, ie. I'm depressed right now.

Depression can also be a clinical diagnosis, ie. you are lacking such and such
chemical balance and _that_ is your depression and you require such and such
to "fix" it.

Depression can be an emotion or a feeling, ie. I feel depressed, or that poet
is describing or manifesting their depression in their words.

Depression can be a _cause_ and a _reason_ , in the sense that one (an agent)
gives a reason for their actions.

The concept of depression has different degrees of agency. In some clinical
cases, none at all. That seems controversial until you realize depression is a
complex and flexible concept.

This study seems to have not clarified what exactly they are talking about
when they describe people as depressed.

~~~
LesZedCB
from the paper's abstract:

> In three studies, _clinically depressed_ participants were more likely than
> nondepressed participants to use emotion-regulation strategies in a
> direction that was likely to maintain or increase their level of sadness.
> (emphasis mine)

~~~
Zaphods
That clarifies a lot, then, thank you.

In this case, then, I don't think the article from the BPS accurately
presented the research in the paper. The fact that they specified that it is
clinical depression in the abstract is pretty important to the importance of
this study. To elide that seems to bury the lede.

------
pdfernhout
Here is an excerpt from an interview with a music therapist about grief and
music (written by a wise and caring friend of mine from long ago): "Music: A
Natural Accompaniment to Grief Work: An Interview with Music Therapist Lauren
DiMaio, PhD. (Story by Katherine Caldwell)" [https://missionhealth.org/wp-
content/uploads/2018/03/October...](https://missionhealth.org/wp-
content/uploads/2018/03/October_2018.pdf)

"During grief, many aspects of our life are raw and painful. It’s common to
believe we’re better off avoiding them. But magically, on invisible waves of
sound, a piece of music can penetrate into pain we swear was carefully locked
away. Within a few chords we can go from “doing just fine” to a searing
confrontation with heartache. Of course you might ask: why would we purposely
want to do that to ourselves? Grief is tough enough without exposing ourselves
to tunes that leave us emotionally wrung out. Perhaps it’s only to say that
music is strong medicine. “If a certain piece of music is unbearable, don’t
listen to it.” says Dr. DiMaio, “Acknowledge that it’s not helpful at that
time. Accept that the piece is only useful in gauging your place on the grief
journey at that time.” When confronting the heaviest part of grief, that
certain song or hymn, or even a whole genre of music may be impossible to take
in. Sad songs of heartbreak or loneliness may, out of respect for our
vulnerability, need to be avoided at certain times. Trust your instincts, but
don’t turn your back on music completely. Fortunately, music takes infinite
forms. If sad tunes are off limits, go on a search for a more joyful noise.
Surround yourself with music that speaks to another part of you: songs of
celebration and gratitude, or melodies that uplift the spirit. If the music
you once loved brings you down these days, it might be appropriate to explore
new types of music, things you’ve never listened to before. Changing our
internal vibration is what grief recovery is ultimately about on a molecular
level. Exposure to inspiring vibrations, even externally, can help us change
internally. Finding new music has become easier than ever. Internet searches
and downloads make everything published in the music industry readily
available, including lyrics."

While grief and depression are not identical, there is a lot of overlap.

------
baddox
I’m a bit confused with the premise. It seems like the article is assuming
that sad music makes people sad, then wondering specifically why depressed
people would listen to sad music.

But why would anyone listen to sad music if the premise was true? Isn’t it
much more likely that the whole reason sad music exists is that it helps
people deal with their sadness, not that it _causes_ sadness? Under this
hypothesis, it’s not surprising at all that depressed people would listen to a
lot of sad music.

------
algaeontoast
As someone who has experienced this firsthand, I think deep / sad music is a
depressed person's form of white noise. It satiates the part of your mind that
wants you to actively think about why you hate life and allows you to be
neutral for a short while. I'm still perplexed by this going through playlists
I made while in college during the deepest depths of my depression.

~~~
cptskippy
I think in general people revel in the mood they're in and listening to music
that supports or amplifies that mood seems common. In a way it legitimizes and
validates the feelings they're experiencing by sharing the experience with the
music.

------
johnchristopher
> The second part of the study used new music samples: 84 pairs of 10-second
> clips of instrumental film music, contrasting happy, sad, fear-inducing,
> neutral, and also high and low energy tracks. In each case the same
> participants as before indicated which music they’d prefer to listen to
> again later. They also heard all the samples again at the end and stated
> what effect they had on their emotions. The researchers found again that
> people with depression had a far greater preference than controls for sad,
> low-energy music (but not fear-inducing music). Critically, though, when
> they heard these clips again, they reported that they made them feel more
> happiness and less sadness, contradicting the provocative idea that
> depressed people are seeking to perpetuate their low mood.

Could we control for the musical complexity structure of the samples ?
Something along the lines of "complex musical structures pleases depressed
people because it requires concentration and cognitive skills that aren't
available for negative thoughts pattern" ?

------
sdegutis
If you're interested in some philosophical perspectives of depression, you may
find these pages as interesting as I did:

[http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2038.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2038.htm)

[http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2037.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2037.htm)

------
altendo
As a volunteer at a crisis center, I can tell you that the thing that people
most want to hear when they are sad, depressed, or otherwise in crisis is that
they want to validate what feelings that they have. In a word, they are
feeling awful and want to sit in that feeling, and the music helps listeners
process that feeling.

------
RandomInteger4
Boomerang effect. You go fast enough into a depressive state to actually feel
something, have a good snotty sobbing cry, perhaps with that semi solid yellow
stuff coming out of your sinuses, and then come out feeling refreshed and
slightly embarrassed hoping you don't enter that state of mind again for a
while.

------
fabricexpert
I'm a really happy person but I love depressing music

------
hirundo
As miserable as it is to be depressed there may also be something positively
reinforcing about it. Anger and hate clearly have that going for them, would
it be surprising if sadness does too? If so, listening to sad music may be
attractive in that it helps people feel sad.

------
ZeroFries
Music with harmonic frequencies is pleasing. The brain itself has frequencies
which can be consonant/dissonant. As other commenters have mentioned, "happy"
music is clashing/jarring (which is exactly what dissonance is like) when too
far out of that mind-state. I think it's likely that the sound inputs are not
harmonic/consonant with the brain's frequencies when the mind-state is much
different. Thus, it's not just a matter of the degree of consonance of the
input, since music sounds better or worse depending on the state of mind one
is in, but the degree of consonance that the input induces in the brain's
frequencies.

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
> but the degree of consonance that the input induces in the brain's
> frequencies

That sounds incredibly pseudosciencey. Why would the inputs of audible sound
compare to your brainwaves? Given that light is also composed of frequencies,
is there a link there as well, or because the numbers don't align as well, is
it disregarded?

~~~
ZeroFries
> Why would the inputs of audible sound compare to your brainwaves?

Why wouldn't they affect brainwaves?

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6130927/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6130927/)

> Given that light is also composed of frequencies, is there a link there as
> well

Sure

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17050390](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17050390)

Not saying this is hard-science yet, just a hypothesis (not my own). You can
read more here, if interested:

[https://qualiacomputing.com/2017/06/18/quantifying-bliss-
tal...](https://qualiacomputing.com/2017/06/18/quantifying-bliss-talk-
summary/)

~~~
SketchySeaBeast
There's no doubt that light and sound affect the brain, our sense wouldn't
function otherwise, I just have doubts about there being particular resonances
or harmonics.

------
Zenst
I find that actually embrassing the depression and be that music or a sad film
and letting those negative emotions have focus in a form of distraction. The
upside is that after such exposure, the contrast of reality helps raise the
mood. Obviously it's not a golden solution and the level of improvement varies
as long-standing life issues are still there.

But instead of fighting the depression and feeling more down as you end up
failing your own standards - fueling the depression. I find embracing it, have
a dam good cry, have no shame in expressing such emotions and with that cut of
much of the fuel that whilst does not soley instigate the depression but more
prolongs it. Just helps.

Nothing worse than feeling down, and then feeling even more down because your
expectation is that you should not feel down. It's a vicious circle of fueling
and depressive period. That and worry about how others percieve it and the
whole social stigma's of it being a weakness. So being mindful of such a mood
and embracing the mood with a good solid cry, whilst not intuitively what you
feel will help, actually does. Real key part is that you take control of the
depression more than letting the depression take control of you, and by
embracing and accepting it you take that step back into a driving seat.

But music is really useful for fixing moods, equally in todays noise poluted
enviroments that cause micro-stress (stress you hardly notice but all add up),
headphones work wonders. As I have found that stress can and does impact and
induce depression. It is identifying those area's of micro-stress and dealing
with them that help keep stress in check and with that, depression.

But everybody is an individual, so no solution will work for everybody. Though
the side-effects of music are far less than any pharmaceutical offering.

I'd also suggest, try an old album from better times, For me Blondie Parallel
Lines does the trick.

Equally some emotionally cold electronic music like some John Foxx renditions
help to focus the mood, for me at least. Not what I'd call sad music (though
some could), more what I'd class as totally emotionless in many ways.

------
mapcars
Because it supports how they feel, this is pretty much how the liking works in
general.

------
okmokmz
I've always found "happy music" to be boring, annoying, and/or aggravating
while what most people would consider angry or sad music is uplifting and can
positively affect my mood and energy.

------
gnode
I think music has appeal because it's information, albeit processed at a low
level, not because it's a mood-altering drug. As with all media, consumers
want to feel it's "true". When consuming new information, we need to find
something that resonates with our existing understanding to believe its
meaningful, and not noise. Somber music feels more like it contains meaning to
a person with a somber outlook. Joyful music in that case feels meaningless to
the listener, because it fails to connect with what they already understand.

------
G4BB3R
It's math! -1 * -1 = 1

------
krupan
Wait, is it only depressed people that like sad music? What about stories with
tragic endings? There must be a lot of depressed people to have made these
things so popular over the years.

~~~
okmokmz
Nowhere in the article did it state that only depressed people like sad music,
just that they are more likely to choose sad music than the controls

------
jaydestro
Type O Negative and reboot everything

~~~
battletested
They were one of the very best ever. It's a shame Pete Steel died already.. I
heard he was heavily inspired by Lycia, pretty deep too, but not the
production level of Type O Negative unfortunately.

------
pjmorris
In the throes of what was, in retrospect, probably depression, I made a
playlist of my 'blues', the saddest songs I knew, to try and get a handle on
what I was feeling. Somehow knowing I wasn't unique in sorrow helped, as did
hearing how others dealt with it, even in such a packaged form.

Lots of other songs hit closer to home, but, somehow, 'Everybody Plays the
Fool' by 'The Main Ingredient' always puts me in a better mood when it comes
on.

------
b_tterc_p
I’m of the belief that a lot of depression is addiction and accumulated
tolerance to the pleasure of being sad. Feeling intense sadness feels really
good as your brain releases chemicals to make you feel better.

When feeling sad, a lot of people will tell themselves the worst possible
worldview they can conceive to get a surge of deeper sadness and thus relief.

That being said, people tend to listen to music that validates their feelings
regardless of the feeling so this isn’t surprising.

~~~
okmokmz
This is absolutely ridiculous. Feeling intense sadness does not feel really
good. People do not do things to "get a surge of deeper sadness and thus
relief". This reads like someone who has never truly experienced depression,
or even known anyone who was genuinely depressed. The implications you are
making are offensive, unfounded, and incorrect

~~~
b_tterc_p
I’m not saying people seek out being sad to attain pleasure. I’m saying that
when people are already sad, pushing the buttons in your brain to explore that
sadness results in a positive feeling. Science is already on board that crying
releases oxytocin and endorphins. I’m merely suggesting that crying is not
absolutely required for the brain offer a similar comforting response when
sad.

I further posit that given humans have a tendency to get addicted to any
source of endorphins from phone screens to spicy peppers, they can and do get
addicted to this one.

If you want to triple down on strictness and say only crying gives pleasure
from sadness... sure whatever. I’m not going to make that my hill to die on.

Edit: and note that if someone did accumulate tolerance to natural calming
emotional counteragents, that sounds like a very compelling setup for
depression.

------
pyython
I had an epiphany a few years ago related to this while in the midst of a
depressive episode. A friend commented on my music selections: "Why do you
listen to such sad music?" It caught me completely off guard because to me
these were not sad songs but very comforting. I had no awareness that these
songs could be interpreted as sad at that time. Looking back it's obvious, but
at the time it was just what I felt drawn to...

------
mikorym
I've always liked sad music.

But I have to say that I don't associate such music with sadness. Rather more
with overcoming things? I am not sure.

When I compose music I focus a lot on half intervals, especially things like
major 7th chords and their derivitives.

Obligatory self promotion here: [1].

[1] [https://soundcloud.com/philliplyznav/sonic-
safety](https://soundcloud.com/philliplyznav/sonic-safety)

------
RichardCA
Funny I was just thinking about this...

I'm actually more productive with music that has a melancholy tone. But it has
to be instrumental, human voices are extremely distracting.

Some Chopin works. Some Boards of Canada works. I also get good results with
Studio Ghibli soundtrack music:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LEmer7wwHI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LEmer7wwHI)

------
telesilla
I've always considered sad music a kind of ally - in lieu of a friend you can
be quiet with and share your moment. It's a form of communication, and sad
music is sharing, well, sadness. I think it makes isolated people feel less
lonely.

I'm also keen to hear the mentioned sad piece "Rakavot" by Avi Balili but it
doesn't seem to exist online, does anyone have a reference?

~~~
rowlf
Here it is:
[https://avibelleli.bandcamp.com/track/trains](https://avibelleli.bandcamp.com/track/trains)

It's from a film soundtrack, used in the opening scene:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoC2PHu5f4I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoC2PHu5f4I)

Apparently, they transliterated the guy's name incorrectly (it's Belleli). I
found it by searching in Hebrew at which point google managed to correct my
spelling.

------
i_am_proteus
When you feel completely disconnected from society, the right kind of music
gives you something to connect to. Which is something.

------
david-cako
The album Lateralus by Tool goes a step further for me. It strikes a balance
between depressed and optimistic unlike any other.

------
wccrawford
As a generally-happy person, I quite like happy songs. I tend to like them
more than sad or angry songs.

I'm guessing this is because I identify with them so much more. And I'm
guessing that sad people identify with sad things strongly as well.

Perhaps "like" is the wrong word in the title. Perhaps "prefer" is better.

------
battletested
Maybe because when you are depressed you want to hear something that resonates
within you? But what is 'Sad' in music? I think you crave for depth in musical
emotions, not particularly 'sad' when you are depressed.

------
salamanderman
In my case, one of the symptoms of my anxiety and depression is to seek out
things that make my more worried and sad. It confirms and amplifies my
catastrophic thinking. I gather this is a fairly common mode.

------
ktran03
Depressed people feel lonely. When you hear a sad song, you relate to the
artist. Knowing someone else out there has also been in your situation, makes
you feel less lonely.

------
bumbledraven
In order to successfully replicate, the depression meme must get you to feel
depressed in the future. Encouraging an interest in sad music can be a part of
that cycle.

------
DINKDINK
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily)

------
PaulHoule
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X23v5_K7cXk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X23v5_K7cXk)

------
topicseed
I love the title and then... "This study is unable to speak to why depressed
people find low-energy, sad music uplifting"

------
randyrand
Why do sad people like to cry? I think it’s the same answer.

------
newnewpdro
Misery loves company.

Music, films, books, they're virtual companions.

------
smrtinsert
I find musical experience is sometimes push or pull. Occasionally a sad piece
will push into that space, but sometimes you are already sad and you search
for music to pull into that place with you.

------
OldFatCactus
catharsis

------
rainhacker
So Google/Youtube knows when I'm sad.

~~~
HNLurker2
No joke this article came in rescue at the exact time. I don't know if you are
aware of the "doomer meme" (painfully relatable) but there are this videos
with gosh damn songs that makes you fall in bottomless pit with others and
then in the comment section where people discuss their misfortunes. E.g video:
[https://youtube.com/watch?v=TNVqOmJc-
YY&t=2s](https://youtube.com/watch?v=TNVqOmJc-YY&t=2s)

I think the only way I can fix this is too make videos too and gradually, just
like the guy above said make them
uplifting:[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19743173](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19743173).
1:48 Also Sprach Zarathustra, Op. 30 - Strauss and then uplifting music.

------
nickelcitymario
TL;dr: "This study is unable to speak to why depressed people find low-energy,
sad music uplifting [...]"

------
grwthckrmstr
LoFi

