

Continuing pro-Wikileaks DDOS actions, Anonymous takes down PayPal.com - mcantelon
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/08/in-pro-wikileaks-act.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29&utm_content=Google+International

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CPops
I support Wikileaks. I support 100% free speech.

These actions seem very counterproductive to me.

* These attacks harm innocent people who are trying to log into PayPal to do their business.

* It pushes people on the fence with this whole thing towards the government's side.

* These attacks on businesses ignore the real enemy of free speech which is always the government.

* It makes it very easy for the talking heads to associate supporters of free speech with these actions and cast what's a very positive movement as a bunch of annoying lawbreakers.

Is Anonymous trying to do Joe Lieberman's PR for him? I can't understand this.

~~~
Encosia
PR and public sentiment have become meaningless in these things. People may
moan about right and wrong, but they don't alter their behavior. Just look at
how little impact the outrage at child-groping has ultimately had on the TSA.

Companies like Amazon, PayPal, Visa, and MasterCard made calculated decisions,
assuming that no reasonable amount of e-outrage would result in enough damage
to their bottom line to outweigh the ire of the government. These outages are
changing that equation. The next time they're about to glibly kick someone off
their network for political reasons, you can bet that they'll at least pause
to consider the potential consequences.

Is Anonymous doing the right thing? Maybe not; I'm torn between the importance
of freedom and the stability that the rule of law provides. It's not about PR
though.

~~~
karmawhore
I've tried to keep my mouth shut as I believe I am probably the only
dissenting opinion that reads HN.

I work in Intel. My name appears on several FISA orders issued in the last 10
years. My rewards for doing my part to keep the USA free, may land me behind a
desk as an analyst the rest of my life. On Dec 2, I was pulled out of my
assignment and returned to the States. I had 35 minutes notice to pack two
suitcases - no contact with friends, no ability to communicate - ghosted.

I've lived a good life, I've done my job, I don't agree with everything my
employer has done, but, my belief is that it was all done for the greater
good. If I didn't believe that, I would have quit years ago. I don't make a
rockstar programming salary though I do have good benefits. Does that make up
for the money I could make? Maybe.

You know what I was offered? A desk or a new identity, relocation benefits and
early retirement because of the possibility that my name could be released.

Do I agree with Wikileaks? I believe there should be some accountability for
things the government has done. I believe Wikileaks should follow through on
their promise for Bradley Manning's defense, though, I think what he did was
reprehensible. I hope the money he made was worth it even though I doubt he'll
ever see it. Maybe that 11 digit number will hold some solace for him that he
was that close to the money.

While I may not agree with what you are saying, I'll fight to the death to
protect your rights to say it. I get extremely irritated when I see the US
Flag being burned in protest, but I wouldn't have you arrested for it, and
would fight to protect you should the police try to arrest you.

Freedom of Speech is a right that we have. Taking classified documents and
handing them to someone to have them released doesn't fall under Freedom of
Speech nor does it really fall under the Shield Law.

There are things that were kept from the public that I believe should be kept
private. Releasing the cables will do nothing but embarrass the USA with the
dealings that they have to do on a daily basis to keep other countries happy
-- and it cost me my job. Is it important to know what concessions were made
with one country to get inspectors in to view another country's nuclear
reactors? The bulk of the 250k cables is just backdoor dealings with other
countries.

If you applied for a job with two tech companies and the recruiters from each
talked with each other and opted to trade you for someone they wanted more,
even if you were happy with either one, do you really want to know that you
were worth less than the other person?

The DDOS attacks really do nothing. Paypal would have released the funds
eventually, even though the account probably pointed to the Swiss bank account
that was shut down. Visa/MC probably did get pressured but made a business
decision to shut down a proxy company where you don't even know what
percentage made it to Assange. Will the DDOS make Visa/MC turn on the merchant
account? Doubtful. Will it make it harder for small businesses to get merchant
accounts? Probably. Companies that take any donations will probably need more
tax forms, etc. If they aren't selling a verifiable service or product, I
think the rules just got tougher. Posting the 2000 credit card numbers during
their protest surely didn't help their cause.

Who will step forward and start a new payment system with the safety and
security of the existing systems that won't terminate organizations that are
political dynamite? Summer YC 11 perhaps?

What did the DDOS do? In my opinion, it will bring the very thing that no one
wants... government regulation. The days of the anonymous internet are coming
to a close. For a group of people that don't want laws controlling what they
can and cannot do on the Internet, they have certainly pushed things in the
wrong direction.

Will you sleep better at night once these cables are released? What if
countries we made backdoor deals with decide to embargo the USA or worse, we
decide to stop supplying Foreign Aid? What if that action leads to the USA
reducing immigration or leads to more stringent borders? What if a regional
conflict takes place because two countries we dealt with decided they didn't
like the terms of the deal they accepted for peace? What if one country got
shortchanged in a deal and now feels regret and decides to take action? What
if that country decides to disallow US Citizens to leave the country and holds
them as Political prisoners because they didn't like the deal they got? And
this guy was there building a hydroelectric dam, or an irrigation system to
help a country and is now held until the US meets that country's demands.

Why haven't the four newspapers that have complete copies been DDOSed for not
releasing more cables? Why hasn't Assange released the password to his
insurance file now that he's been detained and held without bail?

Sure some of my examples are on the edge of being realistic, but, none are a
huge stretch from what could happen.

~~~
mcantelon
>On Dec 2, I was pulled out of my assignment and returned to the States. I had
35 minutes notice to pack two suitcases - no contact with friends, no ability
to communicate - ghosted.

To be clear, was this because of a leaked cable?

~~~
loganfrederick
"Releasing the cables will do nothing but embarrass the USA with the dealings
that they have to do on a daily basis to keep other countries happy -- and it
cost me my job. "

Sounds like it.

~~~
mcantelon
Ah, thanks! You are correct.

