

Microsoft's big Windows 8 secret? It's actually about advertising. - Reltair
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/11/24/microsofts-big-windows-8-secret-its-actually-about-advertising/

======
SquareWheel
They even put ads in Minesweeper. Minesweeper!

I used to pop open Minesweeper and play a game in 30 seconds. Now it takes 30
seconds to get through loading screens and all this "Xbox live integration"
crap. I hate it. Who really wants "achievements"? I just want a fast loading
game that I can throw on a USB stick.

For all the improvements they've made in the Desktop space, the direction
they're heading with Metro is so awful for power users.

~~~
Encosia
That doesn't match my experience at all. Just to check my sanity, I flipped
open Minesweeper and played a game on easy. Between the loading time and my 23
second win, I spent about the 30 seconds you mentioned from start to finish
entirely. I didn't notice any ads at all, and the only Xbox Live interaction I
saw was the non-modal growl-like notice that I was signed into Xbox Live as
Encosia.

Also, there's nothing about Windows 8 that prevents you from running an older
Minesweeper.exe from a USB stick like you mentioned.

Speaking of ads, here's a panorama of the entire app:
<http://encosia.com/i/minesweeper-wide/>. The ad only takes up about 4.5% of
the landscape, in the least conspicuous possible spot. That ad is like putting
a small banner ad in the footer of a website. If you're jumping into the app
to play a game of Minesweeper, you'd never even see the ad unless you're using
a 4,850 pixel wide display.

~~~
SquareWheel
I find the ad more offensive than obtrusive. This is an operating system I
paid for, one where Minesweeper has traditionally been bundled - for free, and
without advertising. This also changes the dynamic where now Microsoft has a
vested interest in learning everything they can about me to deliver more
relevant ads to improve click-through rates. The whole idea of my OS tracking
me sends shivers up my spine.

    
    
        Also, there's nothing about Windows 8 that prevents you from running an older Minesweeper.exe from a USB stick like you mentioned.
    

For now. It's clear the direction that MS is taking Windows though, and I
don't know how long I can reasonably expect to have such control. And if I
want to throw that older exe onto a new WinRT machine, it would not function.

~~~
Encosia
It's an incredible stretch to extrapolate from WinRT and suggest that x86
Windows will disable running arbitrary executables anytime in the foreseeable
future. Surely no one actually believes that Microsoft is planning to turn
away the huge mass of customers currently doing that with Enterprise apps,
random Shareware, etc in Windows 7/8 any time soon.

We aren't going to agree about the ad. I literally never saw it in Minesweeper
until I went looking for it today, and it's clearly a generic CPM based
display ad instead of something invasive based on your activity. Focusing on
these nearly-hidden ads in ancillary apps seems like the pinnacle of
bikeshedding to me.

edit: Not to say that your opinion is wrong or mine is better. I just can't
get on board with all of the fuss I've been seeing lately about these ads.
Having been using Windows 8 as my primary desktop OS for about a year, I never
see the ads. I have to hunt for them to even verify that they're still there
when another blog post pops up about them.

------
kvb
I really think this issue is overblown. Someone could literally use the
Weather app for years without realizing there's an ad in it, for instance,
because you have to scroll _way_ over to the right to see it (past the daily
forecast, the weekly forecast, the hourly forecast, national weather maps, and
a historical weather chart). Since I typically care about the local weather
over a short period, I _never_ see the ads in the app.

~~~
CamperBob2
About all that can be said in response is that if true, your experience will
be treated as a bug report, and promptly assigned to someone to fix.

~~~
kvb
Take a look at the images in this article by Ed Bott:
[http://www.zdnet.com/how-outraged-should-you-be-about-ads-
in...](http://www.zdnet.com/how-outraged-should-you-be-about-ads-in-
windows-8-apps-not-at-all-7000007223/) (also linked from this story). You
think maybe it was a mere oversight that the ads all appear where they are
completely unobtrusive? Seems more likely to me that Microsoft is trying to
get some ad revenue while intentionally presenting the minimum possible
annoyance to users.

~~~
CamperBob2
Yeah, I remember when cable TV worked that way, too.

------
Metrop0218
It's actually about services. By having services like Xbox music, video, and
live come bundled with the system they're trying to increase subscriptions and
purchases. Ads no doubt will play a role but this article exaggerates it.

~~~
notatoad
Most of the 'ads' in windows are actually just promotion of those services, or
content available through those services. It's something that every other
commercial OS does with their first party apps - iTunes is full of promos for
iTunes content. But an article titled 'Windows 8 is about services' doesn't
get as many pageviews as 'Windows 8 is about ads'.

~~~
recoiledsnake
Google "Play: Store does this too just to download an Android app.

[http://www.androidpipe.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/06/Downlo...](http://www.androidpipe.com/wp-
content/uploads/2012/06/Download-the-new-Jelly-Bean-Google-Play-Store-
version-3.7.11.jpg)

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Isn't an app store literally just a wrapper around advertising though. Yes the
ads there seem particularly low on instructive content but the rest of Android
OS doesn't have advertising like that does it.

------
barrkel
_Every day, we’re bombarded with advertising. Billboards. TV. Internet.
Flyers. Cereal. Shoes. Advertising comes in every form and flavor, and it’s
impossible to get away from._

This isn't true. I seldom see billboards (I live in the city, looking at the
traffic is more than enough); I don't have a TV, I don't get flyers, don't eat
cereal, and use adblock in my browser. It's very very rare for me to see ads
outside of free apps for my android devices, and those generally go away once
I buy the non-free versions.

I do not expect an OS I pay for to show me ads, and I'll reject any such OS as
maliciously attacking my attention span.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
> _I don't have a TV, I don't get flyers, don't eat cereal, and use adblock in
> my browser._ //

Don't visit shops?

We don't watch broadcast TV and having used adblock for many years I find the
messiness of un-filtered internet almost unbearable. However we get flyers
posted through our door and I still occasionally buy things online (which come
with flyers and adverts either at checkout or in the box) and I go shopping
where advertising and marketing interfere at every shelf with the buying
process. Then there's vehicle wraps, hoardings, posters and billboards,
clothing based advertising, and all the usual paraphernalia of the street.
Letters home from school, the inside cover at the back of the book you
finished, the start of a DVD with its no-skip "feature". The rich host of a
BBC program plugging their book (they're supposed not to allow advertising¹)
...

Where do you live, not in "The West" surely?

\- - -

¹ But they let very rich people advertised on there anyway whilst being
fastidious about removing any semblance of a logo for small companies or when
the advert would be entirely incidental.

------
dmix
> Ten years ago Microsoft was in trouble for bundling Internet Explorer, but
> now bundling applications laden with advertising is okay?

How are those two even correlated?

Adding ads to your product is not breaking anti-trust laws.

~~~
mtgx
It might if they're only using their own ad network for those ads, and
competing ad networks are not allowed to get inserted in there. They would be
leveraging their OS monopoly to push their ad network.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about them only using their own ad network,
and not allowing developers to choose other networks for their apps.

~~~
inerte
You can chose any ad network [http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/apps/jj19359...](http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/apps/jj193599#options_ads)

------
radley
I'm predicting Metro's primary home screen will switch over to M$ ads within 3
years to match the XBox.

~~~
recoiledsnake
I yearn for the early days when the juvenile 'M$' was against HN etiquette and
was properly dealt with. Now HN is more like Slashdot and that's reflected
into the story selection, comments, moderation and flagging.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I won't downvote him because he made a reasonable point and I can't see what
level of score he has. In the past with scores visible one could (if desired)
vote towards a goal, so keep his comment positive because he added to the
conversation but not too high because of the mode of speech.

Arguably downvoting based on a particular manner of conveying his dislike of
overt money grabbing like this would be as juvenile, if not more so, than
expressing oneself in the manner of the GP.

------
lumberjack
All these changes from the traditional Windows DE to this new thing they have
with Windows 8 prompts the inevitable question: What are they going to do for
corporate and businesses? Are they going to try to push the same interface for
the typical office working environment?

------
meaty
Yes if you've seen Xbox music app, its a big advert which is annoying.

~~~
kvb
The Xbox music store serves as both a music player as well as a music store. I
don't consider showing content from the store as advertising. Is iTunes also
"a big advert"?

~~~
shinratdr
> The Xbox music store serves as both a music player as well as a music store.

Yet it's called the "Xbox Music Store" making it very clear where their
priorities lie. iTunes is iTunes and can also access the iTunes Store. It's
not "iTunes Store, Play Music Also".

> I don't consider showing content from the store as advertising.

Many disagree.

> Is iTunes also "a big advert"?

Nope, because the line between the iTunes Store and iTunes is quite clear. It
ends when you click that "iTunes Store" link in the sidebar. Up until then,
you'll see no advertisements or artists promoted.

Is the iTunes __Store __a big advert? Definitely. However it's a store, most
are plastered with advertising. That is normal.

Ads in your music player isn't normal. If you're willing to accept it, that's
completely different and entirely your prerogative. Many others feel they
already absorb plenty of advertising and aren't interested in providing new
avenues to reach them, especially ones through products that they paid for.

~~~
meaty
Spot on.

Plus we already paid for the operating system. Taking ad revenue on top is
just fucking greedy.

------
blahedo
Sci fi authors have, for decades now, envisioned a future with ubiquitous,
pervasive advertising. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it, but we
shouldn't really be surprised....

~~~
evo_9
"Transmitting" advertisement/commercials into our dream ala Futurama cannot be
far off (I hope I'm wrong). Perhaps this would be something a hotel could
offer to reduce the cost of the room? Trying to think of a positive
application of this idea.

~~~
Evbn
_Brave New World_ : learn a foreign language while you sleep, as well as
subliminal indoctrination.

------
majormajor
Ads in desktop software have seemed on their way for a long time, but the only
high-profile bundled-with-the-OS example I can think of before this is Apple's
Sherlock that came with Mac OS 8.5 and 9.

That was a bit of a special case, for similar reasons to the ones in Metro
apps. Search engines had ads anyway, so ads in a program that gave you search
results in a desktop app wasn't a huge leap. (There was still significant
backlash, though.) And ads in mobile apps are fairly commonplace, MS has just
gone a step further integrating them into their first-party ones. Which is a
curious decision—how much revenue are we really talking about?

I also feel like there's an interesting parallel between Sherlock—a
specialized program for getting results from the internet—and "apps" in the
mobile sense. They're both ways to get around at-the-time-limited web user
experiences. Desktop apps like Sherlock, though, did not last particularly
long as the web itself got more usable.

