
Research suggests some potential benefits to being a loner - raphar
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180228-there-are-benefits-to-being-antisocial-or-a-loner
======
ravenstine
I have the usual reasons for preferring solitude over socializing, but there's
also a sort of meta-reason that causes me to want to socialize even less:

When I am asked about what I've been up to, and I'm honest in that I spend a
lot of my time in a balance between intellectual pursuits and mundane chores,
I am treated as if I am crazy or deficient. People who don't require my level
of solitude see it as a sign that I'm broken, and they never grasp that I
prefer it because it helps me stay healthy and creative.

I recently took a two week vacation from work; I had been working non-stop for
over a year and needed some time to not code or work on anything. I drove out
to Arches National Park, spent some time in nature, came back, and simply
relaxed at home. Read some books, played video games, etc.

According to everyone, I should have gone out to see the latest movies, taken
a cruise, traveled to cities, experienced night life, seen family and friends,
and filled all my days with "activities". My life is supposed to be exciting,
by their standard of what exciting is.

It's pretty insulting, especially because they don't even attempt to see it my
way. I perfectly understand why others don't want the kind of solitude that I
desire, and I don't deride them of it. To be a genuine person only to be met
with implications that I'm not living my life correctly makes me think "Why am
I bothering with this shit?" So I socialize even less.

To me, socializing for the sake of it is rarely worth the time. It's good
practice for when you want to socialize with people who are worth your time,
but the returns are pretty diminishing. I don't need to continually explain to
people why I'm not filling every moment of my life with "activities" and why I
care about my craft(coding). People who value socializing often talk about
being a good listener, but they rarely do this themselves.

If people were more open in their attitudes, I'd be more likely to want to
socialize with them.

~~~
stinos
_According to everyone_

tldr; try to get to know different 'everyones'

This sounds very, very familiar for me, were it 5 years ago. Then I took up
some new hobbies which involved meeting new people. Which I was first
reluctant to, not being the most social being out there, but then did it
anyway because I really wanted to do new things. Man, did I not regret that
for one moment. Turns out there are other types of people than your standard
'everyone' as well. You just need to find them (well, or you don't, up to you,
but for me it was really an enrichment in life to meet similar-yet-different-
minded people). Like you and me, basically. Not only won't they be quick to
judge, but if I tell them 'oh I've been alone for 4 weeks' they just nod and
say 'yeah, understandable, did the same last month'.

~~~
Will_Parker
Can you be more specific about which hobbies are social but welcoming to
extreme introverts? I'm seriously looking for one.

~~~
stinos
Yeah didn't include that because it's purely anecdotal and I have no idea if
my experience applies in general, in other countrie, etc, and I didn't want to
sound like 'do this and it will work out', and it would take a while to
properly explain it..

But here it goes: main one was volunteering with a local nature/environmental
organization. Got into that after buying a scythe to keep the garden under
control. Because I like proper tools etc. Turned out there was a local group
scything in places, usually nature reserves, where that can make a difference
with regards to preserving/enabling rare fauna and flora etc. And it turned
out they were, almost to a scary extent, very like-minded on the bigger
aspects in life while still having completely different backgrounds than me.
Moreover I learned a ton of interesting things about biology, how current
agriculture/inducstry/... is detrimental, etc. Which definitely creates bonds.

Second: volunteering in an organization helping the poor/disabled/... Same
story as above. You don't do that stuff just for yourself, but because you
want to help. Turns out I'm like that, and only really like others like that.

Third: climbing (mainly bouldering, not sure if that matters). To a lesser
extent than above, but still.. Also interesting: like 1 out of 2 people I
really consider worth my time there (without wanting to sound like an arrogant
f __ck, but that 's just how it is for me), happened to be connected to the
same and/or similar volunteering organisations as mentioned in point 1 and 2.
So the real connection is there probably.

Last: I always liked freaking out on hard, underground music (think goa,
acidcore, tekno, mental, some dnb styles, some metal, ...). Even despite being
older now I still do that once in a while, but instead of just doing my thing
all alone I know tend to talk to people more. Ok there's the occasional
uniteresting drug-heads and drunks, but also a striking amount of like-minded
ones. Seemingly _way_ more than on the more commercial styles.

~~~
Will_Parker
Wow, thank you for such a detailed answer!

------
DisruptiveDave
The best part about being comfortable as a "loner" is that your daily state of
existence moves from one of need to one of curation and choice. Being alone is
where I thrive, so any break from that requires a better return. My social
moments have meaning to them now, because I choose to allow them to happen.
It's very difficult for toxic people to get in my space because I don't live
with the need for company, regardless of whether that company provides actual
value to my day.

~~~
Will_Parker
Serious question, how do you deal with being invited to parties when you don't
have the mental stamina and emotional resources for it at the time?

~~~
DisruptiveDave
I'm a bit of an edge case, I'd presume, because I'm very very social when I
want to be. Maybe that's not weird, after all. But at the end of the day, I
either a) don't go because I don't want to (adult choices!!!) or b) just try
to reframe my mental state. Check out a podcast called Good Fortune, episode
1, A Festival. It very briefly addresses this challenge from a stoic's point
of view. Worth a listen.

~~~
horsecaptin
I wanted to add to this because I feel that I'm a beginner at being a stoic
and putting value on being alone:

\- I make choices and I learn from mistakes. I'm trying to be better about not
having regrets as in repeatedly reflecting emotionally to mistakes and
misfortune in my past.

\- I try to do things that are important to me when I have the time for them.
I'm choosier with what movies I watch, games I play, and the things I do. This
beats going to parties sometimes.

\- I'm honest about why I can't go to a party. I take my feelings out of it -
if I am genuinely tired and need rest, then I say that. If I'm sick or have a
headache, then that's what I say. If on the other hand I have nothing better
to do, and I'm being lazy - I go to the damn party. 9 times out of 10 I end up
having more fun than had I not gone.

~~~
jrs235
Ditto.

>If on the other hand I have nothing better to do

Ah ha! This requires having something planned or desiring to do something at
that time. For me rather than phrasing it as "nothing better to do" it comes
down to "I don't have any current plans and while I may feel lazy and
unmotivated, there's value in socializing with others". And yes, 9 out of 10
times I'm glad I did!

~~~
horsecaptin
I like it! :)

------
dpflan
Being a loner and socializing seem to occur in proportion to your personality,
which let's say has an inherent value across the spectrum. That value can
shift depending upon your emotional, psychological, and physiological state.
There are times when shifting along the spectrum either by conscious choice or
social coercion (benevolent I hope) is very useful. I think your personality
is constructed through the interaction of waves of perception and
understanding of oneself generated by you and others who know you: this seems
to make your personality whole because others can help you understand yourself
either directly or indirectly through shared experiences. In addition to the
usual self-analysis/introspection, others can act as a mirror or microscope to
examine oneself.

Here is the conclusion of the article:

"Thus, if your personality tends toward unsociability, you shouldn’t feel the
need to change. Of course, that comes with caveats. But as long as you have
regular social contact, you are choosing solitude rather than being forced
into it, you have at least a few good friends and your solitude is good for
your well-being or productivity, there’s no point agonising over how to fit a
square personality into a round hole."

There were articles and discussion yesterday and in the past about the dangers
of loneliness which may be salient as social networking creates a paradox of
socialization: I'm with all my friends (maybe even humanity), but physically I
am alone.

>
> [https://hn.algolia.com/?query=loneliness&sort=byPopularity&p...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=loneliness&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)

------
JasonFruit
This has not been new knowledge for several thousand years, at least. Marcus
Aurelius, from the _Meditations_ :

"Men seek retreats for themselves, houses in the country, sea-shores, and
mountains; and thou too art wont to desire such things very much. But this is
altogether a mark of the most common sort of men, for it is in thy power
whenever thou shalt choose to retire into thyself. For nowhere either with
more quiet or more freedom from trouble does a man retire than into his own
soul, particularly when he has within him such thoughts that by looking into
them he is immediately in perfect tranquility; and I affirm that tranquility
is nothing else than the good ordering of the mind. Constantly then give to
thyself this retreat, and renew thyself; and let thy principles be brief and
fundamental, which, as soon as thou shalt recur to them, will be sufficient to
cleanse the soul completely, and to send thee back free from all discontent
with the things to which thou returnest."

But Marcus was no loner, and neither are the people who are able to use
isolation healthily, for the most part. We should neither over- nor under-
emphasize "the things to which thou returnest."

~~~
adbge
I have been collecting mystic quotes in the same vein.[1] This one, from
Bernadette Roberts, is my favorite:

> _There is a silence within, a silence that descends from without; a silence
> that stills existence and a silence that engulfs the entire universe. There
> is a silence of the self and its faculties of will, thought, memory, and
> emotions. There is a silence in which there is nothing, a silence in which
> there is something; and finally, there is the silence of no-self and the
> silence of God. If there was any path on which I could chart my
> contemplative experiences, it would be this ever-expanding and deepening
> path of silence._

[1] [http://99theses.com/articles/on-awakening-no-
thought](http://99theses.com/articles/on-awakening-no-thought)

------
ianai
In my experience, society pressures many bad decisions on people out of social
conformity or expectations. For instance, it’s pretty hard to live a genuinely
healthy lifestyle in the US. Most jobs are sedentary. Diet options tend to be
heavily animal based and fatty or otherwise nutrient poor and calorie rich.
Everybody loves tailgating the car going the speed limit, etc. simply opting
out of those things will probably result in better health outcomes.

~~~
whichdan
Oh absolutely. Trying to diet in a major city without spending a lot of time
cooking is impossible. And it feels like most cuisines are vegetable-phobic
which I cannot for the life of me understand.

~~~
ianai
Yes, and as I have been trying to go vegan I’ve noticed how many animal
products are put into food needlessly. I shouldn’t have to eat egg or milk in
a tortilla, salsa (animal stock), bread, burrito, McDonald’s French fries (!),
cupcake, etc.

~~~
mywittyname
It's not needless, the reason for all of this is flavor. Meat fats/proteins
have a very appealing flavor for most people. So when companies perform taste
tests, the richer, meatier flavors have more broad appeal.

I absolutely understand your frustration with this. Especially because it's
certainly not obvious that many of these items contain animal products. I hope
that one day the US adopts the green/red mark system for distinguishing
between vegetarian foods, but for now, it's probably best to assume that all
ready-made food in the US contains meat products, unless it's explicitly
labeled otherwise.

~~~
ianai
I doubt anyone can taste the difference in a tortilla. You probably can in
French fries, but that’s hardly a common practice outside of McD. Umami
definitely wins approval, but I doubt meat would provide umami in so many
foods without the subsidies in place.

------
cvaidya1986
“Those who really want to be Yogis must give up, once for all, this nibbling
at things. Take up one idea. Make that one idea your life — think of it, dream
of it, live on that idea. Let the brain, muscles, nerves, every part of your
body, be full of that idea, and just leave every other idea alone. This is the
way to success, and this is the way great spiritual giants are produced.
Others are mere talking machines. If we really want to be blessed, and make
others blessed, we must go deeper. The first step is not to disturb the mind,
not to associate with persons whose ideas are disturbing. All of you know that
certain persons, certain places, certain foods, repel you. Avoid them; and
those who want to go to the highest, must avoid all company, good or bad.
Practise hard; whether you live or die does not matter. You have to plunge in
and work, without thinking of the result. If you are brave enough, in six
months you will be a perfect Yogi. But those who take up just a bit of it and
a little of everything else make no progress[…]”

Excerpt From Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda Swami Vivekananda
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/complete-works-of-swami-
viv...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/complete-works-of-swami-
vivekananda/id1253889202?mt=11) This material may be protected by copyright.

------
osrec
This resonates with me, being a bit of an introvert. There is something rather
lovely about encasing yourself in your own thoughts without the pressure or
prejudice of other opinions. I do enjoy company as well, but I really feel
alive and free when I can think clearly, which happens most often when I'm
alone - it actually gives me a profound sense wellbeing.

------
wufufufu
There's an entire genre of science clickbait where the title is extremely
noncommittal, and it gets upvoted because it jives with users worldview and
self-rationalization.

"See, it's ok to be alone. That one study from 2011 of pizza chain efficiency
suggests there could be potential benefits to being alone."

"See, it's actually a good thing to drink alcohol everyday as long as I do it
'in moderation'."

~~~
ksk
Not only that, this is based on self-reporting and then coming up with some
model that fits their own beliefs. Wasn't there recently an article that said
how people don't really know themselves that well? How ironic. I have seen a
lot of nerds falling for this kind of fake-science. IME the people who claim
to be logical are most likely to believe this kind of BS.

------
vinceguidry
Historically, the ability to spend time alone with one's thoughts has always
been a luxury, available only to those with the means to own or rent their own
living space. Everyone else in the world dealt with highly-communal living
spaces where you didn't have any choice but to socialize with virtually 100%
of your non-sleeping time.

You simply didn't have an option to develop introversion unless you were
extremely lucky.

~~~
chepaslaaa
Maybe in cities, in rural areas it's pretty fucking easy to end up alone for a
while, even in the middle ages or antiquity.

~~~
Will_Parker
You've made a great point easily dismissible with the word "fucking". (Sorry
for being annoying but it's a key point I wished I learned when younger.)

~~~
Broken_Hippo
While that is true, it was the most efficient way to state that while putting
emphasis on how easy it was. "Freaking" or some other substitute for the word
"fucking" is the next easiest. Simply leaving out the word completely changes
the meaning a little.

~~~
Will_Parker
I'll eat the downvotes without caring, in case it makes one person think,
because it's the advice I needed 10 years ago to be a more effective
communicator, which I didn't take.

Consider "In rural areas, which reflect the dominant lifestyle of human beings
for 10,000 years, it was common to have many hours alone to think while
performing labour. Hence it's obviously not a privileged mode of thought."

~~~
criddell
Just my opinion, but the original sentence containing the vulgarity is more
clear and concise. It feels more human because that's how lots of people talk
when they are in an informal setting (which an internet message board
certainly is).

~~~
Will_Parker
It's much more concise, and much less persuasive to someone entering the
discussion with preconceptions.

~~~
criddell
I try to not judge an argument by it's language. It feels close to ad hominem
reasoning to me.

~~~
Will_Parker
That was my argument ten years ago. I'm just challenging people to think of
communication primarily in terms of how an aggregate of how hundreds or
thousands of people will perceive it, because this was a key that led to me
being much better at making my points and getting what I want. Letting go my
ego that it violates a core value of being true to myself.

In other contexts I just want to fucking vent about some stupid shit that dumb
people say. But I'd suggest this site isn't the best place for that, and I
wouldn't expect such a tone to help people consider my point of view more
carefully.

------
mauserx
I think the term "loner" sends mixed signals. It has a negative connotation
and to me at least, it means that you want to socialise but find it difficult
or awkward.

Instead, I think what this article is getting at is simply setting time aside
in your agenda for yourself. That's it. Whether it be to hone some skills,
relax, meditate, plan your future, whatever. It's super helpful. I live in a
small village and commute every day by train or car. Sometimes I take one hour
walks with my dog and talk with myself. I look forward to it sometimes. It's
like catching up with a friend after a busy week.

Tiny definitions like these can really make a difference. I wish we were more
careful, specially in an era where people only read headlines and feel they
gained knowledge.

------
vezycash
In either Age of empires, or Rise of Nations, soldiers take steady attrition
damage operating on enemy grounds. And, gain health just by being on home or
ally territory.

I think this analogy works for introverts vs extroverts.

Introverts take attrition damage dealing with others - especially extroverts.

Extroverts take attrition damage when alone or on slow paced periods.

------
blackrock
What I like about being a loner, is that no one can influence me.

My decisions are all my own.

I used to live with roommates, and it was too mentally exhausting. Once I was
able to afford my own 1-bedroom apartment, I moved out. And I found serenity.

No more mess to deal with that wasn't my own. No more roommates bailing on me,
causing unnecessary drama. You now have better control of your life and
destiny.

When I traveled for work, I had to travel alone. I found the best place to sit
was at the bar. The sports game on TV provides distraction. And sometimes, you
get to strike a conversation with another fellow traveler.

~~~
ilamont
_unnecessary drama_

That's the thing I dislike, along with needy people.

------
discreteevent
Reminds me of Crocodile Dundee having come to the city from long walkabouts
alone in the outback - "Must be real friendly people to all want to live
together like this!"

------
tsumnia
I'm curious if there is any research in Computer Science Education / Software
Engineering that looks at some of the more holistic aspects of group work. One
of the supporting arguments for things like paired programming is the idea
that software developers, previously stereotyped as being isolated basement
dwellers, need to be able to socialize in the business world. It seems then
counter-intuitive to do these types of activities if they work stump
creativity in problem-solving.

Furthermore, what about isolation while learning/homework? NCSU requires
introductory CS students to work in groups for lab assignments. Research my
lab currently is doing shows collaborative students can have good learning
gains, as well as a person who "does all the work". How does this article's
points align with these types of findings?

------
beersigns
I'm not sure I'd classify myself as a loner(married, fairly large social
circle) but I definitely value my self reflection time. I do think I tend to
be more 'dense' in my social interactions as the article suggests. Ie if I"m
gonna spend a lot of hours doing something social(parties, meet-ups etc), I'd
prefer there to be some observable benefit. There are plenty of ways to I know
of it improve/expand my knowledge on my own: skunkworks projects, reading etc.
Think it's pretty much like anything else in life: find the balance of alone
time and socialization that works for you and you'll be healthier and happier
for it.

------
dwighttk
My category of clickbait includes almost every single "Why X may be Y"
headline

~~~
vinay427
That's great. It doesn't even apply to this title, however. Furthermore, I'm
not sure how you can convince yourself to read studies in psychology (among
other fields) if you hope for certainty and absoluteness in every implication.

~~~
dwighttk
article title is "Why being a loner may be good for your health"

I don't avoid lack of certainty... I've just found that article titles that
conform to "Why X may be Y" are what I consider clickbait enough of the time
that I only read them occasionally.

~~~
vinay427
My apologies about the title. I saw the HN title ("Research suggests...") and
ignored the BBC title when I went to read the article.

~~~
dwighttk
Yeah, the BBC probably has like 3 other titles too.

~~~
Izkata
The original BBC title is in the URL:

> there-are-benefits-to-being-antisocial-or-a-loner

------
SubuSS
I am fine with choosing a 'loner' path, but the hitch comes when they want
civilization / society to come to rescue whenever they feel like it or are in
danger or stuck etc.

I did and do pride myself for being able to be on my own but over time, I have
come to see what my family adds to my existence. What I don't realize and
appreciate when they are around, I completely feel it when they aren't. The
social part of me is like a cat I guess: when others are watching, it just
wants to hide under a counter, goes for snuggles once in a while.

As in all things, it is good to keep a moderate involvement. You can't expect
them snuggles without giving something in return to
family/society/country/whatever.

Time for another one of my dumb theories: The system has enabled us to be
alone more and more without actually putting ourselves in the path of physical
labor/danger - but I believe it is also fraying at the seams exactly because
of the same. It is hard to care for your fellow man / schools / community etc.
when you hardly participate and if you only react when personally impacted.
Social contracts need social involvement.

------
factsaresacred
I replaced going out with staying in after realizing that much of the
activities weren't all that great. 'Hanging out', drinks, chasing girls,
spending cash, and then back on the treadmill making cash in order to rinse
and repeat.

To be fair, these things _are_ fun but as you get older the opportunity cost
is way too high for them to be worthwhile at the expense of self improvement.

Instead I work for 3 months at a time everyday in almost total solitude on an
online business then spend two weeks travelling Asia or on a roadtrip. Those
two weeks make up for whatever mediocre activities I missed the last 12
weekends. (The goal is not solitude, it's freedom. Solitude is simply what's
required to get there).

In today's always connected world, being alone is a gift. Your time is your
most valuable asset and most commitments are not value-adding so filter
accordingly.

One important point: Don't use solitude as an excuse to neglect oneself. Time
spent alone should be a space to grow not atrophy.

------
nunez
You know, the only time that I almost regretted not making a lot of friends
was when my wife and I got married recently. She had a few friends there and a
ton of family. I only had family. While I'm cool with all of her friends and
family, it would have been nice to have had people on my side to talk to, too.

It isn't a thorn in my side; it just would've been nice.

------
ericmcer
I think many people revel in their ability to be alone, almost as if it is
some special ability they have. For me, truly being alone means: no
television, no video games, no internet. It is not really some special ability
to watch 4 hours of Netflix while browsing the internet on your phone
occasionally.

------
isaacNOW
The only way to solve a problem is to first create a problem.

1\. How do do social skills influence happiness?

Answer: The potential to influence could be mathematically described as 1 + 1
= 2. Happiness, on the other hand, adds up to a single solitary state of mind:
1 + 0 = 1. Potential relies on variables.

------
Bizarro
Sometimes I get the feeling that there's too much over analysis of things and
too often they lead to bad unintended consequences.

Not everything needs to be "researched". Can we redirect some "research" money
of this nature to things like cold fusion and curing cancer?

~~~
castis
Do you think there isn't already ongoing research on cold fusion? on curing
cancer?

Do you think money just gets allocated to these projects by some black box of
a process?

Do you think there are things that humanity should just flat-out not know?

------
zitterbewegung
I bet if I google I can find the BBC refuting this statement in the past.

~~~
vanadium
Everything in moderation. When I worked from home for 5 years (in a company
with the same distributed ethos as Basecamp 10 years back) it was easy to
become extremely socially isolated if I wanted to. And it happened a couple of
times over that span, but recognizing the balance of good mental health spun
that back into a balanced state. (To be sure, my wife was immensely helpful
about recognizing it and forcing me out the door more.)

I've been working in offices again for the past, I don't know, 7-8 years now
which initially gave me some whiplash as an introvert finding himself working
in a position where extroversion tends to rule the day. Nowadays, however, I
have a little electronics workshop in my basement where I can scurry off to
and think with clarity all to myself after the day is done. It's rejuvenating
and gives me a stronger sense of worth and balance in my overall mental
health.

~~~
deltaumlaut
>Everything in moderation.

I was thinking exactly this when I saw parent's comment. Has anyone attempted
to describe this theory scientifically? Is it equivalent to the "bell curve"?

~~~
freech
It follows from the law of marginal utility.

------
chrisweekly
>"Research suggests some potential benefits to being a loner"

... says loner.

~~~
chrisweekly
It was a joke! (facepalm)

------
tabtab
A better lawn ;-)

