
Why Apple Didn't Use Sapphire for iPhone Screens - darklighter3
http://time.com/3377972/why-apple-didnt-use-sapphire-iphone-screens/
======
Htsthbjig
I don't agree on most of these reasons. Light transmission is really good on
sapphire, so not a great difference with glass.

I believe the number 1 reason is:

1- They want to test it first.

Apple always do tests, but most of the people do not realize it. For example,
do people realize that before making the Ipad big screen they tested it in the
magic touchpad?.

Between the Iphone and the Ipad there is a huge size gap that means lots of
problems when you do things in the millions, so they added a glass screen to
millions of laptops touchpads.

They got lots of useful information from service repairs, and they did hide
their testing in front of their competitors eyes without them realizing.

Competitors used plastic in their touchpads. When they could connect the
dots(it they did at all), it was too late, Apple was years ahead.

If they start selling their watches in the millions, and I think they will,
mass producing sapphire will make cost plumb.

There will be testing early at a scale that nobody had done before. I worked
for a company that manufactured sapphire glass for the military. We made very
expensive SINGLE units for equipment like cameras, and it was only for the
exterior side.

If a market is created, innovation will come. What we did was very expensive
and we did not care about price.

We did work that was so "last century", like creating huge blocks like stones,
then cutting and polishing it.

I am certain that a better method, more energy efficient like growing crystals
in molds, is possible, but it needs to have demand in order to justify the
investment.

~~~
JunkDNA
Apple has been testing sapphire. It has been in the cover for the camera since
the iPhone 5 over two years ago. What is interesting is that they have gone
back to glass for the lens cover in the new phones. My wife had a problem with
her iPhone 5 shortly after purchase. After she dropped it on the floor (not
especially hard) photos had these small, magenta flecks that no amount of
cleaning could get rid of. Apple swapped it out no problem, but when I first
heard that they moved back to glass for the new camera in the 6 series, I
wondered if they decided that sapphire just wasn't going to work for this use
case.

I suspect, they've learned quite a bit from the sapphire cover on the camera,
hence their comfort in deploying it to the higher end watch models.

~~~
CognitiveLens
They have not gone back to glass

> Sapphire crystal lens cover [all iPhone models]

[http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/](http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/)

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seanp2k2
Also consider how thick the crystal on a watch is vs how thick the glass on a
phone is.

Personally, I'd rather have "the new iPhone 6: exactly as thick as the last
one, but now it lasts 2 days on a charge"

~~~
bane
I would be absurdly happy to find a phone like a Note 3/4 that's 2x as thick
and has 2-3x as much battery. Not that the Note has poor battery life (it
easily last a full 12-16 hours of pretty heavy usage).

I really don't care much about thinness in phones, but I do care about having
a forever battery and I'd happily trade 3mm of pocket space for it.

~~~
zmmmmm
If you really don't care about size there are plenty of options, especially
for phones like the Note3 with replaceable backs[1].Even for the iPhone you
can buy a wrap around case that embeds a battery.

[1] [http://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-Extended-Compatible-
Internati...](http://www.amazon.com/Hyperion-Extended-Compatible-
International-Warranty/dp/B00DH0L5ZO)

~~~
bane
Yeah absolutely, but I wish it was just part of the phone model.

A Note 3 with the pack you linked to could _easily_ do 2 full days of medium
to heavy usage.

------
bane
I think the answer to this is that Apple bought half a billion dollars of
saphire for the high-end Watch models, and never intended it to go towards the
iPhone. That's why it didn't end up in the phones.

It might also be a partial explanation for not launching the watch yet,
they're simply waiting for enough yield to manufacture launch inventory.

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jonifico
This video explains the reasons quite well.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVQbu_BsZ9o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVQbu_BsZ9o)

Althought saphire is in fact stronger, it is it's lack of flexibility and
absorption properties that don't make it as viable for phone use.

~~~
nodata
Why did they buy a plant in Arizona then?

~~~
zackangelo
They're using it on the watch.

>On most Apple Watch models, the display is laminated to a machined and
polished single crystal of sapphire.

[http://www.apple.com/watch/technology/](http://www.apple.com/watch/technology/)

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shearnie
This "leak" was pretty convincing when i saw it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R0_FJ4r73s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R0_FJ4r73s)

Is there some trickery, or is gorilla glass as tough as nails like this now?

~~~
ZeroGravitas
Smartphone glass always has been that flexible and strong, Corning have had
various videos demonstrating that online for a while.

His follow up video was only a few days later, after people pointed this out
to him, and fairly convincingly showed that this was just a newer generation
of glass.

~~~
mhandley
That follow-up video is here:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ANcWQEUI8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ANcWQEUI8)
Pretty interesting (and painful) watching the effects of sandpaper on screens.

------
josefresco
The report they allude to as being "not true" is here:
[http://wallstreetforensics.com/sapphire-screens-miss-
apple-i...](http://wallstreetforensics.com/sapphire-screens-miss-apple-
iphone-6-launch-weeks/)

"By the way, some reports stated that up until a few weeks before the iPhone
announcement, Apple was going to use sapphire but dropped it because of yield
issues. This is not true."

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hrjet
Only the cost reason makes sense to me. Surely the other reasons (such as
transmitivity of Saphire) would have been investigated before putting down .5
billion dollars on the counter. The cost, on the other hand, can be passed
down to the consumer, when in leading position.

~~~
quarterto
It's not that they're not making any use of sapphire. The screen on the Watch
and the Touch ID sensors on iPhones are still sapphire.

~~~
philjohn
And the camera lens cover.

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judk
FYI, as reported on Last Week Tonight, Time had merged its editorial and
advertising groups, and is going forward as a content marketing company, not a
news reporting company.

------
jader201
As much as I would love for Apple to find the "perfect" glass that would
require blunt force impact from a sledgehammer before it would crack, I wonder
if their efforts would be better spent figuring out a way to make the glass
more easily and more affordably replaced. An implementation that would almost
render the screen disposable (but still as durable or very close to as durable
as it is today).

~~~
snowwindwaves
My friend replaces iPhone screens and back glass all the time. I think he
charges people 20-30$ cad to cover the cost of the parts. Takes him less than
10 minutes.

Most screens come with the kit of tools you need for the tiny screws and to
pop off the ribbon cable connectors.

I think that is pretty quick easy and cheap. I feel bad for people who go to
Genius Bar to have this done for $150.

~~~
km3k
If he's only charging $20-30, he's only replacing the glass. The Genius Bar is
probably replacing the screen and glass since that's an easier procedure for
them than just the glass.

~~~
snowwindwaves
I think the screen is one unit and you can't just replace the glass on the
screen. It is a very quick procedure for my friend too. A couple of screws and
a ribbon connector and away you go.

The parts are cheap on eBay. So far the $3 battery has been a dud though.

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mcmancini
I maintain that the sapphire screen rumors were patently ridiculous to anyone
with a basic understanding of materials science.

The only people who took these rumors seriously were pundits who started and
then perpetuated (and now, continue to discuss) the idea.

~~~
seanflyon
I had assumed that the sapphire screens would have a thin film of sapphire and
be made primarily from glass or plastic.

------
swalsh
My own experience with the iphone 5 has been pretty good as far as durability
is concerned. I live dangerously i guess... in that i never really saw the
point in buying a super thin phone then throwing a thick case on it, so I have
no case.

I've dropped my phone numerous times, but I have dropped it twice onto
concrete, once with considerable force. So far, no cracks! Just one data
point, but also demonstrating that what we have now isn't terrible.

------
whillow
I keep hearing that Sapphire is the next hardest gem after diamond by these
sapphire screen manufacturers. But isn't moissanite harder than sapphire?

~~~
dak1
Yes, moissanite is a 9.25-9.5 on the Mohs scale, whereas Sapphire is only a 9.

Moissanite doesn't really occur naturally on Earth though (although it is
believed to form around carbon-rich stars).

~~~
whillow
But there are plenty of other materials that do not form naturally that we
make use of in devices.

It seems misleading to call sapphire "THE" hardest next to diamond when there
is another harder material that we can produce using a similar processes.

~~~
cma
It isnt misleading since because it doesn't occur, it isn't something you need
to worry about scratching your phone. If people start wearing rings made of it
or if artificial beaches start using it as sand, your point will rise above
pedantism :P

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HaloZero
So I'm curious don't these same arguments apply to the Apple Watch screen? I
guess the tradeoff is people are more likely to smash a watch face?

~~~
_pmf_
The cheap 349 USD versions will not have sapphire glass, just the premium
watches. See
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Watch#Collection_comparis...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Watch#Collection_comparison)

So be prepared to spend 1000+ USD if you want sapphire glass. Apple's days of
pandering to peasants are over, it seems.

~~~
nicholassmith
Apple has always, always had price delineation across the range. They've also
probably sat down and looked at expected use-cases for their Watch product
range, the Sport doesn't receive a Sapphire display which could be price
motivated as well but as the above article says the Sapphire is likely to be
_more_ effected by drops or impacts. If you're engaged in a sport there's a
higher chance of catching the screen than if you're just wandering around,
which makes sense to be have a screen that's more impact resistant.

~~~
rsynnott
> Apple has always, always had price delineation across the range.

They're likely to be considerably starker with this range than anything
they've ever made before.

~~~
nicholassmith
That still doesn't justify 'Apple's days of pandering to peasants are over'
though. There's going to be a low end, a mid-range and an ultra-high end. I
personally think the Watch & Support will be reasonably close in price, and
the Edition will be incredibly expensive due to materials cost.

------
s4sharpie
Very interesting about the density and energy impacts on sapphire vs glass. In
a watch context (where the chance of dropping is less than the chance of
scratching the face) the use of sapphire presents some additional challenges
for battery life. If the Apple Watch intends to use sapphire, this might play
into some of the rumours that release has been delayed because of battery life
concerns.

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friendzis
Smartphone category is barely competitive. It is a basic economic law of
luxury products: as long as there are people willing to pay - the price will
increase. 25% increase in price can cause 20% decrease in sales and still
result in the same net income.

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dwightgunning
Amusing that the author leads with a reference to his own incorrect prediction
and then follows up with the sage advice that "all of us need to be more
careful before jumping to conclusions in areas like this."

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bobbles
Will be interesting if the 6s (or whatever) comes out next year goes for the
sapphire screen and introduces the apple watch style 'force touch' capability

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MereInterest
As an off-topic comment, when did time.com switch to such an obnoxious layout?
Taking two inches off the side and an inch off the top is absolutely
ridiculous.

~~~
cjfont
Obnoxious is putting it kindly when I can't even seem to be able to scroll
down to read the entire article.

EDIT: Apparently it's happening to me when I zoom at all on the page in
Chrome, I'm surprised no one else has complained.

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jay-saint
Am I the only one who thinks that Corning sponsored this piece?

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personZ
There is a bit of a negative reinforcement recursion going on in the industry,
and this is a great example of it.

Make lots of pieces claiming sources and reasons for why Apple is going to do
something big and new and innovative. Endless pageviews, speculation, etc.

Apple releases a very nice, but completely traditional and incremental
upgrade.

Make lots of pieces explaining why Apple not doing those things you previously
said they would do is actually best, because of contrived justifications and
reasons. Tonnes of pageviews and links.

Rinse repeat. This has happened with every Apple release this decade.

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miahi
With all the downsides to sapphire (cost, thickness, light transmission), you
start wondering if the previous iPhones were using this material just as a
marketing point and not because there was an actual benefit to the users.

~~~
jacobolus
They’ve been using it on the camera lenses and the surface of the fingerprint
sensor, not on the display.

In both of those applications, scratch resistance is extremely important.
Also, those are both small, which makes them cheaper and easier to engineer,
as well as less likely to shatter.

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jokoon
jeez, I don't care at all about that.

what a tale for such a irrelevant detail. iPhone users are such a category of
people of their own, talking about iPhone rumors and truths is like new ways
to make conversations.

do you know you can have a smartphone that has the same functionalities, for
one tenth of the price ? how is that not news ?

~~~
nb1981
What an irrelevant comment about such AN irrelevant detail.

~~~
jokoon
irrelevancy pile up !

