
WLW: America's 500,000 watt radio station (2015) - bb88
https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2015/mayjune/feature/in-the-1930s-radio-station-wlw-in-ohio-was-americas-one-and-only-sup
======
bitexploder
> People living near the transmitter site often got better reception than they
> wanted; some lights would not turn off until WLW engineers helped rewire
> houses. Gutters rattled loose from buildings. A neon hotel sign near the
> transmitter never went dark. Farmers reported hearing WLW through their
> barbed-wire fences.

That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that
level of ambient power just buzzing through the air. Still, quite a feat of
engineering to think about.

I also took some interesting lessons from the story as an entrepreneur.
Crosley's obsession with radio reminds me of my own obsessive periods with a
particular technology. Then he took his existing business knowledge and
manufacturing skills (and capital...) and acted on it. Such a great little
story of being in the right place, at the right time, and having the right
obsessions.

~~~
reaperducer
_That is pretty amazing. I wonder if there were any health impacts from that
level of ambient power just buzzing through the air. Still, quite a feat of
engineering to think about._

It's very common, and becoming more common.

WLW was a special case because it put out so much power it affected homes a
fair distance away. But even stations as low as 1,000 watts have to deal with
this today.

I worked at close to a dozen different AM stations in a previous life. It's
very common for AM transmission towers to be located in flat, moist areas. I'm
not an electrical engineer, but from what I remember, flat is preferred so the
groundwave signal travels farther, and marshy for electrical reasons.

The problem is that when vast majority of AM stations were built, they
transmitters were in the middle of nowhere. Since then, the suburbs have
surrounded these facilities with homes, sometimes building houses right up to
the property line, and people get interference in their electronics. And
they're not happy about it. If they're close enough, everything with a speaker
in the house only broadcasts that nearby station. Radios, TV's, even things
that don't have "speakers," but are able to pick up the radio waves and
resonate.

It's like when people build a house next to an airport, and then complain
about all the damn airplane noise.

For reasons I don't understand from an electrical standpoint, it was
particularly bad at one 1,000-watt station where I worked in the mid-90's. The
General Manager's attitude was along the lines of, "Why would you move next
door to a radio station? Didn't you notice the 300-foot-tall red-and-white
tower with all the blinking lights out front?" Of course, that's a wholly
unsatisfying answer to a new homeowner.

Since I left radio, I've read that there are a number of AM stations that have
gone off the air simply because of the angry neighbors. They get the local
politicians to pass zoning regulations that end up forcing the AM stations to
move their towers, but the stations have nowhere else to go for three reasons:
First, because they have to be located within a certain area to fulfill the
coverage requirements of their license; second, depending on the station's
transmitting characteristics, they may need a pretty large piece of land for
multiple towers; and third, because AM radio doesn't make a lot of money, they
may not be able to afford new land. So for some, they just go dark.

~~~
hueving
>It's like when people build a house next to an airport, and then complain
about all the damn airplane noise.

Not really. Buying near an airport requires explicit acknowledgement that
you're doing it and that's why homeowners don't really have a leg to stand on
when they complain to their local government. IIRC last time I looked at a
home near a bunch of transmitters, there was no such disclosure required.

~~~
wahern
Oh, people complain about airport noise all the time. You even hear about it
in the news: so-and-so investigating 10,000 complaints about noise.
Interestingly (though in retrospect unsurprisingly), the vast majority of
complaints come from a very small handful of squeaky wheels. For example, of
8,760 complaints about DCA, 1 home was responsible for 78% of them! Source:
[https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/dourado-airport-
noise-...](https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/dourado-airport-noise-
mop-v1.pdf)

Disclaimers notwithstanding, noise abatement requirements continue to become
stricter and stricter across the U.S.

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jawilson2
I'm from Cincinnati, and growing up my dad and grandfather would tell us how
you could pick up WLW across the country on a good day. In the 90s we took a
vacation to the Rockies, and were able to pick up WLW a few times, even though
the power had been reduced by then. I can get it regularly and clearly in
Chicago as well. That's the cool thing about AM radio; since it is transmitted
at a lower frequency, it can travel longer distances, and even reflect off the
atmosphere in the right conditions.

~~~
wl
AM broadcast travels a long way not because it tends to reflect off the
atmosphere (skywave propagation), but because it tends to hug the earth
(groundwave propagation).

~~~
wl
Too late to edit: I was confused... groundwave during the day, skywave at
night.

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mschwar99
Was randomly recommended a video on YouTube a few weeks ago which was a
recording of a tour of the WLW broadcast transmitter facility. You get to see
the high power equipment in detail accompanied by lots of history about the
facility. Was a fun watch.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHjcwIoTiY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHjcwIoTiY)

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simmons
_The station’s once groundbreaking transmitter is long retired but preserved,
on-site, beside its modern counterpart._

I wonder if they ever offer tours. It would be neat to see some of this
history the next time I'm passing through the Cincinnati area. On a related
note, it looks like there's a "National Voice of America Museum of
Broadcasting" just down the street from the WLW site.

~~~
fignews
Here is a tour on YouTube
[https://youtu.be/CbHjcwIoTiY](https://youtu.be/CbHjcwIoTiY)

~~~
jacquesm
100 KW tubes, those are monsters. Watercooling?

~~~
EvanAnderson
Yes. There's a pond on the site that was used for cooling the tubes.

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Udo
_> enough power to supply a town of one hundred thousand coursed through an
831-foot tower_

That would mean 5W per inhabitant. In 2020, this would barely be enough to
charge a phone, and in 1934 that would have been a light bulb per 20 citizens.

~~~
donarb
The power input to the transmitter is much larger than the power coming out of
it. All those tubes generates a lot of heat.

~~~
Udo
So let's say this is 10% efficient, that means 50W per citizen. Clearly, there
is something I'm not getting. Do power companies really budget 50W per user? I
mean it's possible but that seems very low to me.

~~~
dredmorbius
In 1934, electricity use was limited, and still fairly novel in many places.
Utterly unavailable in much of the rural US (look into the rural electrical
cooperatives).

Principle household uses would have been lighting and refrigeration, possibly
a few clocks, a radio, and perhaps appliances.

Averaged over a day, draw per person could well have been only a few tens of
watts. 50W per person for a household of four would be about 150 kWh per
month, which sounds roughly reasonable.

The 2018 US average was 914 kWh/mo:

[https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3](https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3)

In 1930, direct electrical use was only 1% of total household energy
consumption. Coal was 69%, fuelwood still 23%. Expressed as kWh/mo (the source
below has graphs giving nationwide trillions of BTU/yr electrical equivalent)
the number looks closer to 80 kWh/mo, or 110 watt constant, about 28
watt/person assuming a family of four.

[https://aceee.org/files/proceedings/1992/data/papers/SS92_Pa...](https://aceee.org/files/proceedings/1992/data/papers/SS92_Panel10_Paper17.pdf)

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caymanjim
_Of course, for most broadcasters and regulators debating these broad delivery
systems, “listeners” meant Americans who were white and middle or working
class. Programming reinforced presumed middle class values. While some local
stations offered programming targeted to ethnic groups, occupations, and even
political beliefs, black Americans and other minority groups were largely left
out of national radio, except as caricatures—usually played by white people—in
comedy programs._

Why is this paragraph in the article? Do we have to make everything a wokeness
contest? The article is about engineering, and this paragraph is a non
sequitur plopped in the middle of it for no reason.

~~~
scblock
This is a history article, not an engineering article. It's published on the
Magazine for the National Endowment of the Humanities. The article spends time
discussing the perceived cultural potential of radio, as below:

"Since radio’s beginnings in the early 1920s, industry and government leaders
promoted it as the great homogenizer, a cultural uplift project that could,
among other things, help modernize and acculturate rural areas."

The paragraph you take such objection to follows that statement, and is
entirely relevant in the context of the article.

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Ballu
Current most powerful is 2000 kW in France. How these modern ones are
different from old times.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roumoules_radio_transmitter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roumoules_radio_transmitter)
"..The longwave transmitter at Roumoules, which was inaugurated in 1974,
transmits at 216 kHz (until 1988: 218 kHz) with a transmission power of 1400
kW (until 1976: 2000 kW)...."

------
gullywhumper
Grew up listening to the Reds on WLW - it's current slogan is "The Big One"
and it used to call itself "The Nation's Station".

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gregoryseattle
I go camping once a year at the base of a 1.2 Mega Watt transmitter (It is a
Navy Camping ground). Not AM, and at a Very Low Frequency, but still
impressive! So far, I have not noticed any ill effects. Fingers crossed.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Creek_Naval_Radio_Station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Creek_Naval_Radio_Station)

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rmason
For those of you too young to remember the Crosley automobile:

[http://www.classic-car-history.com/crosley-cars.htm](http://www.classic-car-
history.com/crosley-cars.htm)

I remember in the sixties and seventies people dropping a small block V-8 into
them to use as dragsters.

~~~
dredmorbius
I came across a Crosley Shelvador, mentioned in the article, the first
refrigerator with built-in shelves, apparently.

Built in the 1950s, by the early 1990s, the unit was 1) still functioning, 2)
in absolutely beautiful condition, and 3) as or more efficient than modern
"energy-efficient" refrigerators.

------
vonzeppelin
Home of the Reds. Been listening to it my whole life.

~~~
gullywhumper
The last couple seasons were difficult for me to listen to Marty calling games
because I thought he came across as very negative and embittered, but then his
final season (this last season) was so much fun as he seemed to be enjoying it
again even though it wasn't a good season for the team. I listened to games a
lot more throughout the last season and then listened to parts or all of his
last 20 or so games and it was so much fun. Really glad we still have the
Cowboy. Baseball is such a great sport for the radio if you have good
announcers.

------
Pigo
I drive past this transmitter every day on my way to work, passing through
Mason. Several times my son has asked what would happen if someone snapped on
the support cables.

~~~
EvanAnderson
I grew up in western Ohio listening to WLW, and to this day, when I drive down
I-75 and pass the Mason exit I say (to myself, or whoever is in the car w/ me)
"Home of the transmitter" (as was the wont of 700 WLW personality Bill
Cunningham to say any time Mason was mentioned on-air).

------
dang
Related from 2016:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11095038](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11095038)

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noarchy
On a related note, here are actual recordings from WLW on the day of John F.
Kennedy's assassination.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J75BAx4W3Zo&list=PL0O5WNzrZq...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J75BAx4W3Zo&list=PL0O5WNzrZqINoVDIEsnoZvorXVcc8MRSF)

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wglb
A tour of the WLW faclility:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=CbHjcwIoTiY&...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=CbHjcwIoTiY&feature=emb_logo)

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viggity
For point of reference, the max power allowed in the US is 50kW

~~~
andrew_n
I don’t believe this is correct; when I look up the details of transmitters,
they’re often 100kW+, e.g.,
[https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=62331](https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid=62331)
for an arbitrary example in Montana

~~~
texasexile
Different power levels for different frequencies/services. Your arbitrary
example is an FM station broadcasting at 94.5 MHz. AM broadcast stations are
limited to 50KW. The FCC regulates ERP based on a number of factors including
minimizing interference with other frequencies and a frequency's propagation
characteristics. For example, UHF TV full-power transmitters power limit is
one megawatt.

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atsjie
Can't remember ever closing an article I was interested in reading simply
because I had difficulty processing the font. The narrow font face on the
white background just makes it unbearable to look at, it's so narrow. It
actually hurts my brain after a while.

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mmhsieh
for national security it would be best to shut this puppy down because it is
broadcasting our position to extraterresterial civilizations, not all of whom
may be friendly.

~~~
paulirwin
At AM radio frequencies, most of the radio waves are reflected back to earth
or absorbed in the ionosphere. Same concept as how amateur radio HF/MF
propagation allows individuals to communicate with people around the world,
past the horizon. (The 160m ham band nearly backs right up to the top end of
the AM radio band.) You can even sometimes hear your own echo, apparently, as
the signals travel the entire way around the earth, although I've yet to
experience this. (Recent Extra class licensed ham radio operator here. 73.)

Higher frequencies, on the other hand, are not reflected back by the
ionosphere and go straight out into space. That's why you typically use VHF
frequencies (30-300 MHz) for things like EME "earth-moon-earth" or
"moonbounce" communication, or communication via satellite. So if your concern
is about radio waves making our planet a beacon for aliens, you should be more
concerned about FM radio towers than AM ones.

~~~
mmhsieh
that is a good point, i always forget about the ionospheric plasma. however,
there is going to be some amount of outbound re-radiation from the plasma. the
sound quality by the time you get to alpha centauri is going to lousy but any
alien civ capable of coming over here and sucking up our precious atmosphere
is probably going to have good enough spectroscopy and computing to
reconstruct our morning zoo broadcasts and judge that we are not worthy to
have nitrogen.

