
IBM confirms layoffs are happening, but won’t provide details - dsavant
https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/22/ibm-confirms-layoffs-are-happening-but-wont-provide-details/
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dang
From yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23268191](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23268191)

Since that thread took for granted that the layoffs were happening, I see no
SNI here.
[https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...](https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20%22significant%20new%20information%22&sort=byDate&type=comment)

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azinman2
It’s unclear to me what IBM is even about these days. Feels like they’ve led
themselves off a cliff.

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xyst
Legacy main frame technology, homie.

Banks, hospitals, aerospace industry, retail operations, states and
governments mostly run on IBM main frames.

These entities refuse to upgrade because “it just works”. IBM charges an arm
and a leg to these companies because they know they can’t migrate off.

I happened to come across an invoice from IBM to our company and each
server/appliance cost $250K or more. I believe the total cost for the order
was a few million dollars. This doesn’t even include the support contracts.

~~~
curiousllama
Actual quote from a major insurance company CIO to me: "We've tried to migrate
off the mainframe every few years for two decades. Every attempt has failed."

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blackrock
Why has it failed? Because of technology?

Even building your own fault tolerant Linux cloud seems cheaper. Granted, an
insurance company does not have the expertise to build massive computer
operating systems.

Or because of money, and other vendor lock-in’s? Then, with all the
proprietary stuff, I can see how a migration can easily fail.

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bronson
It's usually because the software accrues warts, procedures, and special cases
that get baked into the company's very core. They're all different and all
valuable. Replacing them requires someone who fundamentally understands why
it's all screwed up before they can find a workable fix (Chesterton's Fence).

But that's boring, awful work. It takes zillions of meetings trying to pry
information out of unwilling participants who just want to do their jobs. And
Reports! Acres of impenetrable reports trying to document what you found.

Nah, it's more fun for consultancies to roll in and rewrite everything, and
then send every department through crazy change management. Suddenly there's a
showstopper that nobody noticed until now, the project is already millions of
dollars over budget and years late, so it craters.

A few years later another CIO does it all over again.

~~~
blackrock
Good to know. This provides job security for the CIO. If this project is
canceled, then just jump ship, join another company, and do the same thing all
over again.

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2OEH8eoCRo0
Could the last one out of IBM please hit the lights?

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godzillabrennus
They own red hat. They have mainframes.

There will be something left of big blue if those two pillars alone hold the
decrepit house up.

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curiousllama
It's important to remember that IBM isn't really one entity. They're not just
mainframes, or Red Hat, or Watson, or any other one thing. To butcher a TV
quote: "IBM is just a convenient name for a group of unrelated corporate
interests."

So of course they're doing layoffs: at least SOME of the orgs that operate
under the brand name have to be struggling. It gets a lot less impactful when
the news just bubbles down to: "someone made a bad bet somewhere."

It was always coming at a company like this. Now is just the time when these
things happen.

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CydeWeys
Aren't there supposed to be reporting requirements for mass layoffs?

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verdverm
Yes, and they will come out, this sounds more like an inside info leak

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gtirloni
Every other month, IBM is laying off a lot of people. Is this still news?

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stakkur
Many years ago, I worked at Intel. Layoffs/restructuring/reorging
were...common. Often affecting thousands of people. It's brutal.

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bluetwo
Didn't intel also have a "lay off the bottom 2% yearly" culture? I recall
reading about that years back.

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stakkur
Without risking some random Intel lawyer reprisal, it was often worse than
that. At one point, Intel had the 'ranking and rating' that was once used at
Microsoft. I think this is called 'forced ranking' today. My god.

~~~
Exmoor
At least at Microsoft it was called "stack ranking."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve)

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gentleman11
A family member of mine has to deal with their Phoenix payroll disaster
regularly and directly because they work for the government. The rest of
Canadians still had to deal with the price tag in terms of noticeably
affecting the national debt.

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trekrich
Prob more senior engineers again.

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sunstone
It's a business decision. With the economy tanking they'll be able to hire
better grads and a recent grads than they normally could, work them like dogs
for twenty five years and then wait for a convenient recession for a big
layoff. This has been going on since the '80's at least. Rinse and repeat.

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halfastack
How does that make sense? Can the "grad" do good enough job compared to a
senior? I've seen my fair share of "senior" developers, who had insanely high
salaries for some strange reason yet their output was mediocre at best. Laying
off these people I can understand.

That said, management is notoriously bad at spotting these people. Chances are
they lay off the only person who knows how some crucial piece of SW works...

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madengr
"Essentially, you lay off some of the people without the skills you need and
who can’t be re-educated and you bring in people with certain skill sets".

So what's the criteria for who can't be "re-educated"? Too old?

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jimbob45
Outsourceable. Anyone can be re-educated.

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ycombonator
Welcome to on demand remote IT Labor. Pretty much anyone one IT can be
replaced with a cheaper offshore resource thanks to the acceleration of remote
work.

