
A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52 - fortran77
https://gen.medium.com/my-semester-with-the-snowflakes-888285f0e662
======
jl2718
The thing that hit me after coming back from the war, was how absolutely
meaningless the vast majority of life’s required set of petty exercises are. I
understand the elitism and the challenge of conquering Yale. There seems,
however, to be a monumental difference between him and the rest; that is, 26
years of hardship, quiet observation, and directed action in shaping the world
before reaching toward a philosophical understanding of it, versus young
people desperately seeking that relevance for themselves, but only within the
bounds of perfect physical and emotional comfort, perhaps not realizing that
their pontifications are more limbic than neocortical. Downrange was my “safe
space”; it gives a name to that limbic fear and drops a lot of emotional
pretense otherwise. Stanford, not so much. What I found impressive there was
the Sisyphean devotion to transforming ones mind into a perfect vessel of
discovery, creation, and healing. I didn’t really respect it until I started
to see that path as a superior way of being to my own, and made my best effort
to commit to it despite the overwhelming disadvantage of time. Perhaps someday
I too will see the same moral superiority in the screeds of elite youth in the
humanities and social sciences. He was, after all, a far greater man in his
first career than I ever will be.

~~~
ganzuul
The trouble with the term 'elitism' is that sometimes the best is only
adequate, and for many people the best that society has to give is
legitimately not enough. One lifetime of learning is not enough. Another one
is in order.

"We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is
our passion, and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art."

\- Henry James

~~~
sizzle
Thanks for sharing that powerful quote.

------
sequoia
This man's experience & his positive report of campus culture at an Ivy League
school are heartening among all the distressing stories of ideological
conformity on elite college campuses. It certainly is not all students at
elite schools who are trying to shut down discussion, and claims that all
students are doing that are surely exaggerated.

Two things should be noted, however. First, that this is one person's account,
not an examination of broader trends. For a broader, data-supported survey of
anti-free-speech trends on campus and why it harms students, "The Coddling of
the American Mind" is a fantastic and enlightening book. (Incidentally it
cites causes from right & left wing extremists, on and off campus, it's not a
story of "snowflakes bad".)

Second, it's not _necessary_ for authoritarian/illiberal activists to be in
the majority in order to have a profound impact on the culture. "A small group
of dedicated individuals" can affect great change even if they're in the
extreme minority. If 1% of people on campus are willing to publicly condemn
you and do everything they can to destroy your reputation or get you fired,
and 4% are willing to go along with it, that can be enough to convince the the
other 95% to keep their mouths shut.

None of this is to take away from the fact that this is a refreshing narrative
of unity, openness & cultural exchange in the Ivies.

~~~
andreilys
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, everything you say is pretty much on
the money.

Nassim Taleb explores this exact concept in his essay titled _" The Most
Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority"_
[https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-
dict...](https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-
of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)

------
lordleft
Studying with veterans is an incredible experience. I'm lucky that my school
(Columbia) has a very large undergraduate vet population. It adds a dimension
of experiential diversity that many colleges fail to capture, and makes real
what are normally distant and easy to abstract away geopolitical decisions,
like deploying troops in Afghanistan. I hope more universities follow Yale and
Columbia in creating spaces for returning serviceman to integrate into
collegiate life - it's good for all of us.

~~~
rb808
Also hiring. I worked with an ex Army Ranger who was by far the best leader
I've seen.

~~~
op00to
I have an ex ranger on my team who is the most sexist, pompous, self important
asshole I’ve ever met. By far the best bloviator and derailer of projects I’ve
seen.

~~~
fredsanford
Ex ranger...

While I didn't serve, I did grow up with and had close family and friends that
were part of navy, army and air force special forces.

The clown you describe does not last long in special forces unless he's a
modern day Audie Murphy, Roy Benavidez or Chesty Puller.

------
hirundo
From the author's photo his purple heart was not from a minor wound. He
appears to be an amputee. I imagine that the dog in class was related to this.
It is heartening that these students were able to respect this man for his
service, or despite it. I would hope that the same would happen if his
sacrifice was less evident. I'd think it well could have. People are so much
better when they meet face to face without any built in confrontation.

~~~
defen
[https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-seal-dog-handler-how-a-
fai...](https://www.stripes.com/news/navy-seal-dog-handler-how-a-failed-
mission-to-rescue-bowe-bergdahl-caused-irreparable-loss-1.385511)

~~~
ohashi
That story is heartbreaking

------
sillysaurusx
If you want to see what a Navy SEAL's life is like, I highly recommend this
documentary:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvvNKBGgUw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvvNKBGgUw)

"Documentary" makes it sound sterile or clinical, but in fact it's pretty
badass.

Kind of dispels the illusion that we're not pampered.

It's so good I'll probably watch it again today. The diving section is the
best, IMO. Imagine someone spinning you around underwater and ripping off
parts of your dive gear then having to reassemble it basically blind.

Imagine a junior code review that starts like this
([https://youtu.be/AGvvNKBGgUw?t=230](https://youtu.be/AGvvNKBGgUw?t=230)):
"This entire codebase has been a joke. There hasn't been a single module that
you've written during the course of this project that has even remotely
resembled perfection. Everything has been sad, weak, and unreadable. And it's
all because you're inside your tiny little brain, self-defeating yourself."

Admittedly that only happens during the training phase, though.

~~~
anon9001
This kind of training seems like it would cause a lot of injuries. Is that
just an accepted part of it?

~~~
sillysaurusx
Yes and no. It’s not acceptable to overlook safety. During the documentary,
there are situations where you can see the instructors prioritize the well-
being of the candidates (as opposed to saying “no, keep going”). One candidate
complained he was feeling dizzy, and the instructor sent the candidate to get
checked even though he personally felt there was nothing wrong with him. Wish
I could remember the timestamp.

There is also the concept of being rolled back due to injury. If you sprain
your ankle, for example, you can’t keep going. It’s a persistent fear of all
candidates, since it’s a big setback. But the flipside is that apparently you
only get rolled back to when the next class catches up to where you’re at
right now in training. It’s one of the cooler parts in my opinion, since you
can see they truly value the candidates rather than thinking of them as
disposable tools (which you occasionally feel like as a programmer...)

But, ultimately, you’re correct: it’s inherently dangerous. Everyone signs up
knowing the risks.

EDIT: Found the timestamp:
[https://youtu.be/AGvvNKBGgUw?t=2266](https://youtu.be/AGvvNKBGgUw?t=2266)

------
gbronner
The Yale Directed Studies program is no joke -- it tends to attract the most
motivated humanities students and to have incredible amounts of work and
reading.

Impressive that he's taking it, but he's also seeing a somewhat more serious
class of students who, by extension, are less likely to be snowflakes.

~~~
mistrial9
> snowflakes

what does that mean ?

~~~
runjake
Read the article where he describes the meaning? It's a reference from the
book/movie, Fight Club.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(slang)#Unique_or_sp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_\(slang\)#Unique_or_special_snowflake)

------
ProAm
His book 'Touching the Dragon' [1] was an interesting read. I recommend it if
you liked this article, gives you a perspective of where he is coming from
now.

[1] [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/548196/touching-
the...](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/548196/touching-the-dragon-
by-james-hatch-and-christian-dandrea/)

------
lazyjones
This very humble author possibly impressed and changed his fellow students
more than he would admit. Many modern narratives and trends simply fall apart
when confronted with reality.

------
hackworks
Thank you very much for the wonderful and very insightful article.

Developing the humility and truly believing that we are all snowflakes and
willingness to learn from the diversity around us is a big step forward.

I loved the analogy between leaders and bridge builders. I always considered
leaders as those who build a pedestal or platform or ladder for the rest to
use and grow. Very similar.

It gives me confidence and courage to take up a few courses myself and enjoy
learning and not just go after grades.

------
kev009
If you have kids that want to do things in a pretty non-conformant way (with
beautiful irony) I'd recommend taking a look at VMI and The Citadel, neither
requires military service afterward (although it is an option and a good one
to pay for the experience) yet you will be along side some of the best current
and future military leaders as teachers, classmates, and friends for life. The
Federal service academies are also well regarded but there's something a
little bit more rough and tumble at these two that is precious and I say that
with respect even as they two are rivals.

To have you ass kicked every day, in every way imaginable (mentally,
physically, athletically, motivational, trivially, lack of sleep and food,
academically) while still doing a full course load is really a great start on
adult life which can be just as hard and you are always prepared. I doubt the
academics are anything like an ivy, just sharing another option that reminded
me of the bridging of two worlds of physicality and academic pursuit.

~~~
gjkhkldajghl
Did you go to either of those schools?

~~~
kev009
Yes, G Co 2011 at El Cid

------
calderarrow
Tangentially related anecdote:

As an undergrad, I got to spend a semester in the ROTC capstone for second
semester seniors called “Leadership and Ethics.” I remember walking in on my
first day in cargo shorts and flip flops as the only civilian and non-senior
student. Everyone else was in full uniform. The class was taught by a Marine
Officer.

As a business student, I realized how similar the military and business can
be. Most of the theory of leadership and management aims to address a
fundamental goal: how do you get people to do something they may not
necessarily want to do. Whether that’s making widgets or killing someone, the
underlying theories are quite similar.

The main difference I noticed between the two fields was the military’s
emphasis on trust. You were to respect a chain of command because you could
trust your commanding officer. You were expected to perform your best because
you could trust your teammates to do the same. The reason soldiers could rely
on this trust was because their superiors had gone through the bullshit and
could manage from a seat of positional and experiential authority.

In the business world, they taught management as if having positional
authority would automatically create trust and inspire subordinates. MBA
students graduate and come into supervisory roles without any prior experience
in the underlying work and get mixed results. Part of me wonders whether this
is due to ineptitude or simply inexperience.

I remember finishing that course and thinking I really should study
engineering because I knew that wanted to play a role in managing and leading
technical teams working on innovative problems.

Fast forward a few years and I left my role in public accounting to go into
industry, but instead of going into finance or internal accounting I chose to
learn development and spend a few years experiencing what it’s like to be a
developer, so that one day when I’m managing a technical team I can actually
know when they’re giving me a legitimate justification for something, and when
they’re just bullshitting me.

Having been a developer for a couple years now, I don’t know how I could have
managed a technical team without this experience. I think back to my “career
plan” before I took that class and remember thinking that I’d not only be able
to find a managerial position upon graduation, but that I’d be able to lead
effectively as a 22 year old. What a foolish 20 year old I was!

Anyway, this is really just a roundabout way of saying I loved my class and
have tremendous respect for military leadership. I would have loved to have
more classes with officers and veterans, and hope my kids get that opportunity
someday.

------
haecceity
He shouldn't be too impressed by his younger class mates. Having discipline to
do the work and problem sets would put him ahead of most of them.

~~~
sanj
Based on the article, I'd expect that he disagrees with you.

Strongly.

------
duelingjello
Don Shipley should check for this guy’s name in his database just to verify.

Meeting a SEAL is like getting struck by lightning because there are so many
phonies out there stealing valor. I hope it’s not the case.

~~~
wetmore
It's not hard to find more info about the guy, just Google his name.

------
tantalor
"infamous YouTube video"

No link.

~~~
aidenn0
Maybe this one?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiMVx2C5_Wg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiMVx2C5_Wg)

------
Merrill
I hope we hear from him again as a Senior at Yale.

------
exabrial
I loved every part of this. This is true leadership.

------
ganzuul
HN is not a safe space by this definition.

~~~
dang
HN is certainly not a safe space. No large anonymous internet community can
be.

~~~
ganzuul
It annoys me. Smart people should be able to deal with subjects outside their
comfort zone but what I see here is the intellectual version of footguns
employed more as a rule than an exception. - _People downvote things they don
't understand._ \- It's crazy. They can't even stand up for their opinions but
do it anonymously, like cowards.

~~~
dang
I think there's a confusion here:

 _Smart people should be able to deal with subjects outside their comfort
zone_

"Smart" is a cognitive trait; dealing with what is outside one's comfort zone
is a different developmental axis altogether. Smart people are no better able
to do this than anyone else, and may even have a harder time.

~~~
ganzuul
I see. I mean a different smart. General intelligence. It implies you learn
the traits required to solve a hard problem. It's a habit of self-
optimization.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
I don't actually know if general intelligence is a thing the way you're
describing it. There's no reason why an insanely smart algo PhD-from-MIT
person could take their algo smarts and intuitively apply it to being a
compassionate human being dealing with others whose existence and experiences
may be drastically different from themselves for practically no feasible
reason (fate/gods/random chance).

~~~
ganzuul
A lot of traits commonly seen as benevolent can be attributed to evolutionary
pressure. Healthy human emotions associated with these are not necessary for
them to work, although they are important for living a fulfilling life.

Cooperation and diversity are both optimal so being complex social creatures
we go to lenghts to communicate as widely as we may. I think it all works out
quite nicely, thankfully.

------
asdfman123
More people need to learn that if you leave your bubbles and talk to people,
you'll find that they are actually indeed people too, and not caricatures you
read about on outrage-bait new articles.

~~~
tareqak
I’ve mentioned an idea to a friend of mine: a sort of welfare/basic income
program where people are paid to talk to others. There is no restriction as to
the topic as long as the other person consents to having the conversation: it
can be as mundane talking about the weather. My reasoning behind it was just
to get people who otherwise would not talk to each other to do so to actively
reinforce my observation that everyone is the same in different ways and
different in the all same ways.

~~~
philwelch
This is the social value that we used to get from churches, fraternal
organizations, bowling leagues, block parties....

~~~
AaronFriel
Some of those things are more inclusive and diverse than the others.
Fortunately there exists a modern equivalent that exposes people to a lot of
different folks all at the same time: universities. For many rural teenagers,
a university will be the first time they meet people from another country, who
don't speak English as their first language, or a sizable number of people
with a different skin color. Speaking from experience, growing up in Iowa.

~~~
philwelch
And that brings us full circle back to OP.

Most university students are in their late teens and early 20's and once they
graduate they never go back. Churches and other social institutions are more
lifelong.

------
forgotmylogin2
The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against
"safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of
his classmates.

> What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an
> environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the
> risk of disrespect or harsh judgement.

If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice, there'd be
little backlash against them. The primary criticism against safe spaces is
that they are an excuse to censor dissenting opinions. A common example is
that people opposed to sex-reassignment surgery are not allowed into
discussions about trangenderism because their opinions are considered
"disrespectful" or even "violent" to transgender people.

~~~
luckydata
Put this way, it really makes me think you don't like safe spaces because they
hinder your ability to hurt transgender people.

It always seem that the only people complaining about systems designed to
respect others is the people that are doing the dis-respecting, haven't seen
much proof of the contrary so far.

~~~
hellomyguys
Safe spaces is a phrase people use when they don't want to call it these
environments for what they actually are, which are spaces for vulnerable
members of society to have a place to discuss issues that are relevant to
them, without having the already dominant voices in society interjecting,
usually in a disrespectful manner.

~~~
manigandham
That is not at all the definition used in the article which is the point of
the OP's comment.

If the membership and topics are exclusive based on comfort then it is, by
definition, not a safe space for any kind of difficult conversation. It's just
a private club.

~~~
hellomyguys
I think you're misunderstanding who these spaces are for and what purposes
they serve.

Are also you saying difficult conversations cannot be had by people sharing
similar interests or beliefs? And since when are all private clubs bad?

~~~
manigandham
We're talking about the literal definition used in the article, and that does
not match up with what you're claiming. There is no limitation on membership
to "vulnerable" people, whatever that means, nor is any voice "dominant" by
default.

> " _Are also you saying difficult conversations cannot be had by people
> sharing similar interests or beliefs?_ "

No, but freedom for difficult conversations are the qualifier for a "safe
space", not the identity of the individuals and their comfort which would be
antithetical to free discussion by all.

> " _And since when are all private clubs bad?_ "

Nobody said that. The point is that a safe-space as defined in the article is
not the same as a private club with limited identities and discussions.

~~~
hellomyguys
> > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an
> environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the
> risk of disrespect or harsh judgement.

The quote literally says difficult subjects (read conversations) can be had
within this space. Obviously we have different interpretations and my comment
is adding my own perspective to it.

~~~
manigandham
I'm not sure what your point is here. The definition of space space in the
article is only limited to discussion, not identity or comfort. You claim
that's not what they actually are, so you are agreeing with the OP then in
pointing out how the article uses a different definition than the common usage
in reality.

~~~
hellomyguys
You’re conflating several distinct points into one. By expanding on how I see
the term safe space being used doesn’t mean I disagree with the article and
therefore agree with the OP. I don’t think that’s that hard to understand. I
don’t really find it productive to continue this discussion.

~~~
manigandham
You literally disagree with the article (and agree with the op) on _the
definition of a safe space_.

