
Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show - artsandsci
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/16738748/google-amazon-feud-youtube-pulled-off-fire-tv-echo-show-nest-devices
======
bitsoda
You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired
the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only
seems fair.

~~~
RIMR
Amazon removing the Chromecast from their store was, if anything, verification
at the Fire TV was not a product that could succeed on its own.

I love my Chromecast and I buy new models directly from Google, because no
matter what Amazon says I know the difference between Google's product, and
Amazon's copycat version of it.

~~~
syshum
If they would give me an actual controller for the chromecast I might consider
it

I have no desire to control my TV with my phone.

I may look into Roku as an alternative to FireTV now though,

~~~
Crespyl
I'll third the praise for Roku.

The only annoyance is that they put ads on the homescreen, (but that can be
blocked at the network level), and that different apps tend to have slightly
different/inconsistent UXs, for example pressing "up" while watching Netflix
will show you the timeline without pausing, but doing the same in HBO Now will
take you back out to the show info page.

The dedicated remotes are nice, though sometimes oddly slow to "wake up". Some
models even have headphone jacks on the remote, which can be really handy.

All the versions can be controlled through a really nice Android app, which
lets you directly enter text rather than pecking around in a grid keyboard,
and also lets you forward audio to your phone/headset instead of the speakers
or remote.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Roku, seemingly, accessed my device and disabled side-loading. An unlawful
access (unauthorised access, unauthorised modification, both crimes under the
Computer Misuse Act in UK).

Put me off an otherwise stellar experience.

------
niftich
Last time [1] we speculated, some saying it's a straight tit for tat [2],
others, like me [3], saying it can be because Amazon half-assed the
implementation after getting no help from Google.

At least this time, we know the real reason.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15348063](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15348063)
[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15348063#15349384](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15348063#15349384)
[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15348063#15349084](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15348063#15349084)

------
inthewoods
The big winner in this would seem, to me, to be Roku - one of those rare cases
where being independent actually helps.

~~~
lixardz
roku is freaking terrible. have you even used one? compared to the
seamlessness that chromecast plus the price, why would you use anything else.

~~~
syshum
>>seamlessness that chromecast

how is it seamless, I want a independent device to watch videos on, not a
device that have to connect with my phone, tablet or pc then "cast" video to
it.

I want a self contained video streaming device with its own physical remote,
processor and OS that does not need anything else but a internet connection

Roku and FireTV are different classes of Devices than a ChromeCast

~~~
lixardz
you're in like .01% of the population that wants that. the menu's and remote
with the roku are horrendous, everything about a roku is terrible. You have
log into an account within the 'roku os'. you also have to have the remote on
you. I almost always have my phone on me. I'm already signed into all the apps
that i want, with a much easier to use keyboard for searching. i tap a button
on my screen and it's playing on my tv. The entire experience is 'seamless'
just because you like to have 47 extra steps to watch a video doesn't mean
that anyone else would like that. Roku is for people who don't know better or
are technologically challenged. I mean, if you compared it to the appletv Roku
is probably good?

~~~
stinky613
> you're in like .01% of the population that wants [a self contained video
> streaming device with its own physical remote, processor and OS that does
> not need anything else but a internet connection]

Then why is Roku the most popular brand of streaming device?[1]

> You have log into an account within the 'roku os'

...and with Chromecast you have to log into an account within the Google Home
mobile app. In both cases you only have to log in that first time.

> you also have to have the remote on you

No, you don't. You can use the Roku app on any iOS or Android device.

Most people who buy a device like this are trying to watch Netflix or Hulu;
not trying to cast video files from a local storage medium. Note that the
marketing copy on Roku.com[2] focuses on everything _except_ casting. And it's
the same for Amazon[3].

[1] [http://www.businessinsider.com/roku-vs-chromecast-amazon-
fir...](http://www.businessinsider.com/roku-vs-chromecast-amazon-fire-apple-
tv-most-popular-study-2017-7)

[2] [https://www.roku.com/how-it-works](https://www.roku.com/how-it-works)

[3] [https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Fire-TV-
Family/b?ie=UTF8&node=...](https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Fire-TV-
Family/b?ie=UTF8&node=8521791011)

~~~
Crespyl
And even though it's not a focus, Roku still has a perfectly usable
Miracast/WiFi Display implementation that works with any Miracast source. I've
used it successfully from both my android phone and win10 laptop.

------
joekrill
They were probably actively preventing them from releasing a YouTube TV app
for the FireTV as well, I'm guessing.

I'd love to switch to YouTube TV (I've had MANY problems with PlayStation Vue,
and Sling is decent, but missing some channels). They don't have a FireTV app,
though. But frankly I'm ready to simply ditch my FireTV because of that alone.
Throw in the fact that my FireTV is covered with ads now and it's kind of a
no-brainer.

~~~
peatmoss
I watch the PBS NewsHour on Youtube on the FireTV because it tends to be
available sooner than on the PBS app. After the last round of updates, I've
gotten a lot of video stuttering in YouTube, such that restarting the FireTV
is the only way to fix it. That, and the UI of the FireTV got way harder /
less-logical to use a few months back (along with the ads).

Beyond the recent junking up of the UI and Youtube hiccuping, I'm getting
really, really tired of the Google / Apple / Amazon / content / platform /
device wars.

------
GabrielF00
Is there precedent for a company restricting access to its website by a
competitor's device for competitive reasons?

~~~
tootie
I don't it's blocking the site. They're discontinuing the app. FireTV doesn't
directly support web browsing at all.

~~~
GabrielF00
Echo Show switched to showing YouTube through the web after Google blocked it
the first time. Now it looks like Google is blocking the website.
[https://9to5google.com/2017/11/21/youtube-back-on-amazon-
ech...](https://9to5google.com/2017/11/21/youtube-back-on-amazon-echo-show/)

------
627467
Tech Corps. coming of age. I'm looking forward to the next Google.

------
quotha
But how exactly can you pull a website off, i mean it is a web site..

~~~
jerf
User-agent tracking will work just fine.

In a more non-corporate environment this would be the beginning of an arms
race to try to figure out how to fiddle with headers to either block or not
block the device, but since we're discussing corporate behemoths with legal
teams larger than most companies, it'll stop here, because no legal team would
sign off on the idea of fraudulently identifying yourself in a header in order
to obtain services from a hostile competitor.

~~~
mulmen
Can't I do this with my own home router? Or is this why Google pushed so hard
for TLS everywhere?

------
tzakrajs
They probably want more control over the implementation of Youtube. Maybe it's
not a good experience on the Fire TV and Echo Show.

~~~
now_l93
That's not why. See the article. Google has stated this is because amazon
doesn't sell certain google products through their store, and doesn't allow
prime video on the chromecast.

------
oh-kumudo
Monopoly in action? Anyone familiar with the business here, how is this going
to play?

------
lostmsu
Now we have a new motto: "Don't be Google" (or Amazon).

------
sharemywin
I've been looking for a tablet for my kids without that filth finally a
solution.

it's sucks I have to make a deal with the prime devil to get it.

------
otakucode
Why is this Google's call to make? I thought YouTube was a web site/service
and the web was open?

~~~
gitgud
YouTube is a commercial product. It's Google's choice to make YouTube free to
view. Couldn't they block anything they want?

\- Client app implementations

\- Specific countries

\- Specific browsers

\- Specific users

Is this correct?

