

The Rising Appeal of Apprenticeship - e15ctr0n
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/business/economy/a-new-look-at-apprenticeships-as-a-path-to-the-middle-class.html

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micheljansen
Apprenticeships are surprisingly suitable for highly skilled professions as
well.

I work at a creative agency in London and we started taking in apprentices a
few years ago, with great success.

In my opinion, apprenticeships work best for people who either already know
they are interested in a particular craft and want to specialise quickly or
for people who don't know what they want at all and want to try out a career
before committing.

I work in UX myself and while there is definitely a place for solid
theoretical foundations, I have found that it's a field that develops so
quickly that experience is much more important than knowledge. Because of
this, it's very suitable for the kind of on the job training that
apprenticeships offer.

Personally, I loved every minute I spent in an academic environment at
university. I know it shaped my thinking and personality in very real ways and
I enjoyed the freedom of doing research without direct applications (while
getting my practical fix through part time jobs on the side). If that doesn't
sound like your cup of tea because you are more practical, you can totally
skip it if you can get a relevant apprenticeship with solid mentorship and
genuine job opportunity at the end of it.

I work with two people who entered in apprenticeships at my company instead of
going to university (saving a load of cash) and they both have since been
offered permanent positions. I don't know how their long term career prospects
are, but I would definitely hire them over a recent graduate with 0 years of
experience under their belt.

~~~
pstadler
In Switzerland it's common to start an apprenticeship after 9 years of school
if you have an idea what you want to do. Turning just sweet sixteen I did one
myself as an "Application Developer" in the airline industry. This lasted four
years and gave me some kind of diploma - not exactly a degree in CS, but I
gained enough experience to get a well paid job with some responsibilities
afterwards. During the apprenticeship the salary is more or less symbolic. Now
at the age of 30 I've almost 10 years of experience in the real world, and
never had any debt to pay off (although higher education is also very
affordable in Switzerland). The nature of software engineering (e.g.
contributing to open source projects, learning by doing, etc.), a sense of
responsibility and a natural hunger for wisdom is in my experience enough
material for a good position. Many of my friends, including myself, never did
a bachelor or master degree but became great engineers and project leaders
nevertheless. What often matters more than deep theoretical understanding is
actually doing things such as dealing with pressure, deadlines and customers,
getting along with a team and solving complex problems in an pragmatic way,
because that's what actually happens in most of the jobs. I don't say this is
the better way to go, instead I want to say that having a certain academic
degree should not be seen as the only promising career path.

~~~
fla
Same here. It works really well if you are passionate about what you do.

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bryang
It makes quite a bit of sense to go back to more archaic learning methods. I
don't mean that in a snarky way, but only for lack of a better term to
describe very very old. Apprenticeships were how the average population
learned prior to colleges becoming a normal thing. If you wanted to learn how
to make chainmail, you had to get an apprenticeship with a blacksmith -
learning was done on-the-job. You didn't go to college and learn how to make
armor, farm, write literature and then just get whatever job when you got out.
You started at a filthy young age in that one craft.

Nowadays, college educations are worth basically nothing. You're not thought
to be any smarter than the next guy and unless you go to a really well known
institution that provides you esteem and wealthy connections, it's essentially
just an advanced High School degree.

The point I'm getting at is - and I've seen this in the occasional job search
I've done - the Generalist role is dead. In theory, it makes sense, wouldn't 5
people with general knowledge more slowly build a worse product than 5
different experts? Experts are always wanted and that only comes through years
of dedication to that craft. And you simply cannot get that in college. On a
side note... I think College is just a 6 figure right-of-passage into
adulthood and learning how to feed yourself, become responsible enough to wake
up on time, and find good friends.

~~~
Retric
The problem with Apprenticeships is they evolve slowly. AKA, you probably
don't want to be a buggy whip apprentice.

The real advantage of a high level generalist education is it enables on the
job training. Someone with a 2.5 GPA from a reputable collage can do most jobs
in the US with an additional 1 year of training. But, someone with a 8th grade
education plus 8 years working as a landscaper is far more limited should say
a back problem force them into a more sedentary occupation.

~~~
msandford
> Someone with a 2.5 GPA from a reputable collage can do most jobs in the US
> with an additional 1 year of training.

Oh really? Which employers will pay to train you for a year?

~~~
msandford
Further, let me list the jobs that probably this doesn't apply to: doctor,
nurse, engineer, lawyer, programmer (probably), scientist, actuary, machinist,
welder, etc. This represents a lot of jobs in the US.

Now a list of jobs that you can train for in a year, but which don't need a 4
year degree: truck driver, construction worker, retail employee, many
restaurant staff, janitorial, basically anything in the general service
industry. This is also a lot of jobs.

Maybe you could name 10-20 jobs which do fall under the general degree plus a
year of training?

~~~
Retric
Edit: in the general case, I would replace on the job with 1 year job specific
training. Companies may or may not offer this as on the job training depending
on the demand, but 6mo-1yr retraining is not a major issue.

There is a huge realm of office jobs that take basic collage level skills. EX:
Software tester, receptionist, Manager, etc. (Substitute) Teaching is another
huge area that often takes collage education, but many states have a 3.0 GPA
requirement.

Many companies will higher programmers without the background, granted you’re
not going to make much but it's a start.

The US military for example will train you to be a welder or machinist in less
than 1 year. Depending on demand the same thing can happen in private industry
but you’re starting doing true grunt work.

Nursing is something of a grey area. You can quickly become an orderly without
a related background and there are various levels of certifications necessary
to do various types of nursing. EMT takes collage level general skills + 6
months training though again you don't need a degree just that level of basic
skill.

The Police are another area that takes people without any background training
and may require a degree.

PS: That's not to say some high school students could not succeed at these
jobs with similar training. However the demonstrated skills associated with a
collage degree are significantly higher.

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thirdtruck
I would _love_ to apprentice someone at my next job but please, theoretical
future employer, leave me time and energy enough to actually train them.

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abakker
Hiring skilled labor in the cabinet business is quite difficult, also. In many
ways, our industry now relies on what are essentially apprenticeships where
you start as a basic worker and learn skills on the job. Unfortunately, the
"learn skills on the job" isn't necessarily part of the employment contract,
but an unspoken perk. And the employers frequently need part-time work, or
can't afford to maintain full-time employees under training.

Having a system that produced trained woodworkers would make this labor market
much better, since most small businesses can't really afford apprentices. They
could, however, likely do well to have fully trained employees available. Of
the handful of cabinet makers I know, all but one of them were hobbyist
woodworkers first. The one who wasn't is Swiss where he grew up and was
trained in cabinetmaking instead of university.

~~~
dublinben
As usual, it sounds like employers are unwilling to actually pay to train
their employees, but still expect all prospective employees to have real-world
training. This applies to pretty much every industry right now, the skilled
trades are no different.

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abakker
If anyone is interested in some vocational training in metal fabrication,
check out The Fab School - [http://thefabschool.com](http://thefabschool.com)

I've not seen any equivalent programs in the US for woodworking.

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mildweed
Years ago I wanted to make an apprenticeship locator / pairing service
website. It also was going to have apprenticeship certification mixed in
there. I believe apprenticeships done well can replace the majority of (but
certainly not all) college degrees. Completing a certified apprenticeship
should be as good of an endorsement as a college degree (or better!). So many
fields, it would probably be better: advertising, insurance, journalism,
programming.

If anybody wants to take this and run with it, please do. Just hit me up to
brainstorm at some point, I'd love to flesh out the idea more with like-minded
entrepreneurs.

~~~
eropple
_> Completing a certified apprenticeship should be as good of an endorsement
as a college degree (or better!)._

It could be good way to turn out trained people. Maybe, anyway; I have my
doubts. But consider that _training_ will never provide the same kind of
endorsement as a liberal _education_ \--while reasonable, if perhaps short-
sighted, people may disagree, for my money that's a worse endorsement for
creating well-rounded people who can be dropped into a foreign situation and
thrive.

This criticism extends to the glorified tech-school approach of many bachelor-
of-science degrees, thinking about it; I have a B.A. in computer science, not
a B.S., and the most valuable classes I ever took, not just in my work life
but my personal one, were microeconomics and political science. I wouldn't
have had _time_ to take either within a B.S. program.

~~~
civilian
Agreed. I've got a B.S. in Biochemistry and I'm sad about all the liberal arts
classes I missed out on. I audited a philosophy class and I still think about
it often.

However I've found that if you want to continue learning, being a programmer
is a good place to be. It's pretty acceptable to read wikipedia during your
breaks and we get paid enough to have guitar tutors.

~~~
eropple
Remedial work's always there, sure. But you have to know what you don't know,
at least in outline.

A lot of my liberal arts classes were things I didn't necessarily like. But I
know enough to have a framework to learn more about them and about related
topics.

------
roymurdock
I have an old, 1970's era mechanical watch that I've been trying to repair
recently.

I called around a couple of stores in the area (Boston) and many of the
clock/watch shops have backlogs anywhere from 8 weeks to 8 months. They were
all basically family-run (old husband/wife couples) and most said they were
struggling to keep up with demand and that there were simply no young men
entering the business.

The one guy who had an apprentice later clarified that his apprentice had been
working for him for 20 years!

I wonder how/if tech might be applied to these craft-heavy markets to make
things more efficient.

~~~
logfromblammo
Open case. Dump out the cams, cogs, and gears. Insert custom PCB, e-ink
display, battery, and user input devices.

The 555 was first sold in 1971. Why the hell would you still rely on complex
mechanical linkages to track the time when you could just start believing that
digital watches really are a pretty neat idea instead?

~~~
qq66
The same reason that people still paint, sail, ride horses, read books...

~~~
logfromblammo
And do people still paint by spitting ochre against the edge of their hand
onto rocks, or has painting evolved with technology? Does perspective count as
painting tech? If a new cyan pigment is discovered for printer ink, could
painters use it too?

Is a coracle made from animal skins stretched over wooden frames equivalent to
Cousteau Society's turbosail ship _Alcyone_? Could anyone sail at 65 knots
without advancements in tech ( _sailrocket.com_ )?

Could I fit an entire library of books in one pocket without the technology in
my Kobo?

I'm not familiar enough with horse riding to provide a better example, but the
high-backed cavalry saddle and stirrup were, at the time, considered
advancements in military technology. Even the fact that you can ride horses
for pleasure rather than by necessity is thanks to technologies such as the
automobile.

People continue to do these things, but they have not always done them in the
same way. And when the newer way is better, the old way rarely survives,
except as a historical curiosity. Mechanical timepieces are objectively
inferior to both electromechanical timepieces and purely electronic
timekeeping. There's a reason why no one has to go up twice a year to wind the
mainspring on the GPS satellites.

------
fsloth
And the wheel of history turns. The bleak view is that first industrialists
got rid of the apprenticeship because they wanted to pay only skilled
craftsmen. The need for craftmanship was reduced when processes where
dehumanized through splitting work into trivial tasks and workers became - not
masters of a trade - but replacable cogs in the machine.

It's nice to see this becoming more mainstream again. Learning by doing - and
observing skilled workers - is a great way to learn most of the practical
aspects of a trade.

------
Apocryphon
So what's the state of apprenticeships in Silicon Valley? Certainly, there are
internships galore, though how often do they actually provide training for the
intern, as opposed to expecting that the intern already know everything aside
from the specifics of the firm's codebase? And you normally are only an intern
if you're a student, so.

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chipgap98
I think it would be interesting to see apprenticeships become more popular as
a post college option. As someone who just graduated and is seeing friends
struggle to have enough experience for entry level positions, it would be cool
to have opportunities to do this in a variety of industries like tech,
finance, ect.

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aristus
That's how I got my start: two unlikely ad-hoc apprenticeships in applied EE
and CS.

[http://carlos.bueno.org/2013/06/apprenticeship.html](http://carlos.bueno.org/2013/06/apprenticeship.html)

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beat
My daughter is doing informal apprenticeship toward being a chef, working as a
line cook under a famous chef. It's a better learning experience than culinary
school, and she's getting paid rather than paying for it!

