

Does Java need a "Linux moment"? - Garbage
http://dotneverland.blogspot.com/2010/10/does-java-need-linux-moment.html

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angusgr
WildUtah made the main point I had (that Apache Harmony represents this very
concept), but I also can't help but address the concept of a "Linux moment"

GNU is the real project to talk about here. It was started in the mid 1980s in
response to proprietary Unix tools. It was created for the explicit purpose of
freeing users from AT&T's licensing restrictions.

Linux was started in 1991 as a side project, not from any ideological reason
and not to be "big and professional like gnu"[1]. Although the source was
always available, it was not until a year later that it was GPL licensed and
became what RMS would call "free software".

Not trying to be a RMS fanboi here, obviously both pieces of software have
evolved into something very different in the past 19+ years. However, the root
"moment" was the reason for GNU, not for Linux.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux>

~~~
nailer
I agree with what you're saying, but the term 'Linux' is commonly used as a
shorthand for GNU, X, GNOME, the Linux kernel and more.

Yes, people should credit GNU, not 'Linux' for replacing Unix. But those of us
that understand the difference know the author is talking about GNU, and those
that don't think Linux is GNU anyway.

~~~
angusgr
_but the term 'Linux' is commonly used as a shorthand for GNU, X, GNOME, the
Linux kernel and more._

I know, I use that shorthand myself. But only one of the components you
mention (GNU) was created for the explicit reason that the article describes.

 _those of us that understand the difference know the author is talking about
GNU_

I'm not sure even the author actually realises he was talking about GNU. The
"Linux or GNU/Linux (sorry Richard Stallman)" quote gave me the impression
that he has heard of RMS's pedantry about the term GNU/Linux, but he doesn't
understand why RMS is pedantic about it, or any of the other relevant history.

 _and those that don't think Linux is GNU anyway._

... which would seem to justify the comment, in itself. :)

BTW, _Why_ does this have more upvotes than WildUtah's comment?!? Their
comment is far more to the point than my one.

------
WildUtah
That's what Apache created in the Harmony project. And Oracle is suing Google
over that very same thing.

Oracle claims that they own the copyright on Java API, including clean-room
reimplementations of the Java API. It's a novel legal theory that didn't work
for IBM or AT&T so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Oracle also has patents that pretty much prohibit anyone from writing any kind
of JIT VM. That's just one more pathology of a system that allows software
patents at all. It's literally illegal today to write any kind of software in
the USA because of the breathtaking quantity of basic techniques patented long
after their first use by our broken patent office. Oracle is just the one
seeking to enforce that prohibition today.

~~~
nkassis
"Oracle also has patents that pretty much prohibit anyone from writing any
kind of JIT VM"

That's the biggest issue I see with this suit, so they want to own the
language and syntax, whatever. But if I have a language X lets call it D# and
I want to build a vm for it, I can't because of those patents? It's not like
VMs and JIT are new, I'm sure someone was doing it before Sun.

------
lygaret
The problem, in my opinion, is that unlike Linux, recreating the important
parts of Java as open source wouldn't be fun.

The issue isn't the VM, or the compilers or anything like that (which exist
and _are_ open source) or the standard libraries (which IIRC are also open
source as much as is possible), it's the patent portfolio and the JCK and JCP.
If someone wants to fork Java, they'll have to replace the JCK to get any sort
of traction.

Hackers enjoy hacking on software, not fixing compatibility test suites and
setting up standards bodies. Java's dead, and it's because it's gotten to the
point where it really, really needs a large player behind it, paying for
lawyers and politicians (more lawyers).

------
eitland
We already have decent implementations of javascript, python and ruby running
on all three major platforms.

It's not hard to guess that we'll see a rapid decline in interest for creating
and maintaining Java libraries now that Java is owned by someone who totally
don't get the Java community.

------
rexyo
Does the world need its Linux moment? The USPTO is a real mess for anybody
believing in open source technologies, everybody knows that..

Java cant have a bright future within Ellison's hands, who is only trying to
beat Google by buying up revenue streams: Market cap Oracle: $144.28 Billion
Market cap Google: $196.24 Billion

There is also news that Oracle might be invloved in large scale fraud:
[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870357810457539...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703578104575397573983263294.html)

Keep your head up Java, you'll never walk alone..

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rabble
How the hell does this end up on the front page of HN? There are several free
and open implementations of java and the JVM, the problem in this case is not
copyright put patents.

Has somebody been gaming HN to get insubstantial and uninformed pithy blog
posts like this on the front page?

~~~
goodside
I meant to upvote you. Touchscreen syndrome. Somebody please upvote the parent
and downvote me. Thanks.

------
st3fan
Yeah Miguel de Icaza had that moment six years ago.

