
Ask HN: Will you ever eat meat that is grown in lab? - Arthanari
What are all the bad events that can come along with any progress in this direction?
======
Spoom
Sure. I like meat, but if there's a version that I can eat that doesn't
involved slaughtering animals, that's a net positive.

~~~
Arthanari
If it's not slaughtering animals then its not meat.

Its like suddenly some one comes and calls some thing meat n then we order 2
of those.

Vegetarian is a reasonable alternate if we don't want to slaughter meat. Meat
like tasting vegetarian alternate is also reasonable. But lab grown meat is
the most unnatural thing. How does eating a thing which is 99% unnatural
constitute as eating food. Its just eating a thing.

There is a crowd which wants to avoid as much artificial things in food and
eat natural food and there is a crowd which wants to eat 100% artificial thing
like lab grown meat.

I wonder which crowd will win in the end.

~~~
atonse
Arthanari, I've noticed you're pushing this idea of artificial ingredients
being added to the meat.

Genuine question, are you talking about certain lab grown meat products vs
others? Look at this excerpt from a wired article [1]: At Finless Foods, they
take a bit of fish meat and filter it for a particular kind of cell, not so
much stem cells but stem-like cells, what they’re calling progenitor cells.
“We're looking for cells that have the ability to differentiate into different
lineages,” says Selden. “So we're looking for cells that are stem enough.”

The idea is to trick these cells into thinking they’re still in their owner.
So by feeding them nutrients like salts and sugars, Finless can get the cells
to turn into muscles or fat or connective tissue. Think of it like sourdough
yeast: Once you’ve got a starter strain, you can keep making a distinctive
bread. “Once each of these companies has a cell line going,” says Selden,
“they never have to go back to the initial animal.”

[1] [https://www.wired.com/story/lab-grown-
meat/](https://www.wired.com/story/lab-grown-meat/)

~~~
Arthanari
The whole process is artificial.

~~~
atonse
But with that rationale, so is our current factory farming process.

Animals don't naturally graze, they are fed all the food they need. They don't
naturally die. They are killed. They aren't naturally conceived, they are
inseminated.

Where does the "natural" absolutism end?

~~~
Arthanari
So instead of working on improving this process we are totally jumping ship to
a artificial process? So basically we have given up on such a simple task of
raising good cattle which our ancestors have been doing for centuries because
some scientists found some cool trick to multiply cells in the lab and are
looking for ways to push their cool inventions on the masses to feel good and
important?

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truesy
I am not a vegetarian, but I would happily pay double to eat meat that doesn't
result in an animal being killed. But it'd have to taste okay, at least, for
me to make that jump. Doesn't have to be perfect, but has to satisfy a craving
for a burger or something like that.

~~~
Arthanari
Why settle for the at least? when we can have the perfect one.

I think there are things beyond just craving, Y isn't it about eating the most
healthy food?

If we care so much about "an animal being killed" then what to do to tigers
and lions and other carnivores.

I think a lion eating a deer feels more natural than a man eating a lab grown
thing.

Why this much push into loosing our nature? Apart from capitalism could there
be any other reason?

~~~
agitator
I think it comes down to progress. Most of the meat we consume has a heavy
toll on the environment. And with many other countries developing, gaining
wealth and having the purchasing power to consume meat regularly, it's going
to be a disaster. We innovate in so many respects, why can't we innovate with
tasty, satisfying ways to consume proteins and fats that don't have the
destructive nature that our current system has?

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drchaos
If it is tasty and affordable, why not? Almost everything we eat nowadays is
already highly optimized through selective breeding over thousands of years,
so adding lab-grown meat does not make our food less "natural" than it is
already. On the other hand, lab-grown meat will probably use much less
resources compared to traditionally produced meat, while not causing any
issues with regard to (bad) treatment / killing of actual animals.

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atonse
Yes, without a doubt. It takes many of the downsides of meat out of the
equation (animal cruelty, environmental impact, use of antibiotics).

I don't know how the health effects would change though.

~~~
Arthanari
Don't you think a lab grown meat is something that is 100% antibiotics?

It is odd how one says Yes without a doubt to something that one eats, but
also is aware of being unaware of its health effects.

It is very scary though...

Don't you think we should eat something that is guaranteed to bring good
health to us...

~~~
d0lph
Wouldn't lab grown meat have no antibiotics since they probably won't
encounter any random diseases.

~~~
Arthanari
Any idea why they wont have any disease? Because they are not even a living
entity. they are just a non living thing, like a stone or sand or plastic or
shells in the ocean. Would humans be inclined to eat a non living thing? As a
living being i think we should be eating other living beings, like a vegetable
or organic salmon...

If we can easily believe that eating lab grown meat and real living natural
food is same then why don't we believe fake news as real? They also sound
real, they also have words, they also have websites they also appear to have
likes...

This effort to make the boundary between nature and artificial disappear isn't
it like making ourselves disappear, are we humans not natural beings?

~~~
d0lph
I was thinking because they don't need to be exposed to farm conditions, with
disease being able to transmit from animal to animal.

Because meat isn't true or untrue, it provides things your bodies need, things
it doesn't need, or things that are harmful to it.

I'll be honest, I'm not totally on board, but I don't see any reason we
shouldn't grow meat in a lab, and probably many benefits.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
But vats can still support bacteria colonies, just like cows can.

 _Ideally_ , they'd be sterilized between batches, in a way that left no
residue on the product. In practice, though, I wonder if they won't need to
use antibiotics (or something like them) in order to ensure a safe product.

The advantage will be that all those antibiotics don't run off into the
soil... except for the plant's wastewater. Still, it ought to be more
localized than the current practice.

~~~
drdeadringer
Reading your comments in this post, by now I must ask: what is your continued
interest here? Are you honestly interested in "keep Humans natural" or
similar? Are you in the meat industry?

~~~
AnimalMuppet
My daughter has significant food sensitivities. Certain foods cause _dramatic_
behavioral changes. Dyes are a problem. Corn is a problem. Soybeans are a
problem. Chemicals in the food are a problem. We've learned the hard way to be
_very_ careful about what she eats.

So I'm suspicious of "it's just the same". Yeah, it is, except for the traces
of stuff where it's not. Those traces may not matter to most people. (Then
again, they may - prions, anyone?) But to at least some people, the small
differences _really matter_ , not because of their taste buds or their
feelings about their food, but because they legitimately react strongly to
some things.

But you, why are you so eager to discredit someone whose viewpoint (I assume)
differs from your own? Why are you so eager to ascribe bad faith or ulterior
motives to someone?

~~~
Arthanari
Just wondering what could be the reason many think lab grown meat is a food
when no other food falls in that criteria. Haven't got any convincing point
yet. Only some distracting ones which become clear on the second read.

Is there any other lab grown thing that we have eaten?

~~~
d0lph
Hydroponics comes to mind, replace soil with water, provide nutrients
artificially, pretty similar really.

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sidyapa
I am waiting for the day when I can buy lab grown meat. I am a vegetarian
since March 17, 2012 and boy do I miss meat. I had to give up meat because I
couldn't stand killing animals for my taste but now lab grown meat will give
me the pleasure without the guilt!

~~~
Arthanari
What if all the lions in this planet think I couldn't stand killing a deer?

~~~
drdeadringer
Where on this planet do lions naturally live alongside deer? This what-if
seems as unnatural as the lab meat you seem so concerned about.

~~~
Arthanari
Don't lions eat meat?

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SHOwnsYou
I'm not interested in lab grown meat.

I don't each much meat anyway, but the meat that I do eat is grass fed &
finished and raised semi-locally. I prefer the path closer to nature than to
the lab.

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danielovichdk
Absolutely not.

It's not about the meat, it's about how poor judgement peope have in terms of
sustainability.

Meat is meat. And meat is ok.

Whats not okay is mass production of it, or any other kind.

Instead of growing anything in a lab, think about what you consume. This goes
for everything. I would much rather eat a chicken that is produced locally
than one I have no idea what went through.

This goes for everything I eat. Even though I am not even close to being
fanatic.

Its okay to consume but please do it respectfully and reflect upon it.

Lab grown food is simply to futuristic for me

~~~
agitator
Thats a great, but naive mindset. The average person eats what they can get at
the lowest cost. The market dictates consumption for the majority of the
population. The populous won't stop consuming unsustainable, anti-biotic
ridden, polluting meat until there is a cheaper but equally satisfying
alternative.

~~~
charlesdm
Yes, I agree most people don't care. But I won't be eating lab grown meat
either.

I have the money, and when I consume things, I'd rather they be of good
quality (i.e. certain organic foods that are locally produced). Personally I
don't mind paying double, triple or even quadruple the price on something if I
know it is of better quality and/or healthier.

Then again, I also don't eat meat every single day, while many people do.
Probably great for the masses, but not for me.

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wemdyjreichert
I may be a bit old-fashioned in this regard, but no, I (probably) wouldn't. A
lot of "fake meat" includes soy, which is known to simulate estrogen iirc.
Also, it's kinda for the same reason I won't eat bugs (even if safe and
tasty): it's just not to my taste, and that's okay.

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AnimalMuppet
No, at least not for a fair amount of time before it comes out. I want to wait
for real (independent) data on health effects and nutrition. I want to wait
for data on long-term health effects.

By independent, I mean not just independent of the grower, but perhaps also of
the FDA.

~~~
yellowapple
I wouldn't mind being that data.

~~~
Arthanari
What gives you so much motivation to be that data?

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Arthanari
[http://realfoodmedia.org/lobbyists-distort-our-idea-of-a-
hea...](http://realfoodmedia.org/lobbyists-distort-our-idea-of-a-healthy-
diet/)

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jadeydi
No, can't believe that.

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06rg11
Yes if it tastes the same and is much cheaper than it is at the moment

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cypherg
As soon as possible.

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Arthanari
What if we stop eating chicken and then they go extinct?

Would those who caused this by switching to lab grown meat feel bad about it?

And if they go extinct then is there any net benefit in we stopping to eat
them?

~~~
davman
> What if we stop eating chicken and then they go extinct?

People keep chickens as pets.

Also eggs.

~~~
AnimalMuppet
Sure, but the world population of chickens probably still crashes...

