
The FBI Director Puts Tape Over His Webcam - molecule
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/08/473548674/why-the-fbi-director-puts-tape-over-his-webcam
======
white-flame
To me, Comey is a man who has lost the goal in pursuit of his particular
mission.

Defense, intelligence, policing, all these things exist in order to uphold the
constitution, protect the "American ideals", etc. Many of his statements
pretty directly show that he doesn't care about the collateral damage to
innocent people's privacy or any founding principles, he just wants his
mission to be unhindered. It's the same mentality behind police forces wanting
to make their job less dangerous and more straightforward, by escalating use
of force and trampling rights.

With this hypocrisy, as has come many times before (congress shocked and
demanding privacy when the CIA spies on them, for instance)... I can only
shake my head. Come on.

Encryption is our webcam tape.

~~~
coliveira
I don't understand why smart people have so much trust on encryption
mechanisms. For any information to be useful, it has to be converted in some
way. For example, if it is an image it has to be unconverted and presented as
pixels in a screen. If you're typing an email it has to come unencrypted from
a keyboard. Encryption only make it difficult to access the information once
it is transmitted, but it is still pretty easy to create a virus or something
that access the data at the moment it is used. In my opinion there are cases
in which using tape on a webcam is far superior than using complicated
encryption strategies.

~~~
diego_moita
I got dizzy by your own confusion on this subject.

You need encryption for the same reason you need locks. Locks are not the only
trick to provide you security but they are pretty much a very necessary tool.
Without solid encryption you can't have a lot of the good things on the
internet: online banking, online shopping, filling taxes online,...

> it is still pretty easy to create a virus or something that access the data
> at the moment it is used

It is not so much anymore. Viruses are getting quite harder to make, even for
Microsoft Windows. And, even if you were right, you still need encryption for
people that are smart enough to avoid viruses.

~~~
coliveira
My point still remains. Even if you have good encryption, pure reliance on
that puts you at risk in so many other ways in which information can be
accessed. Any time you see information, access your bank accounts, create an
email, etc., your information is at risk, and that has nothing to do with the
amount of encryption you're using, because encryption will only work during
the data transfer/storage stages.

------
rdl
I care about audio so much more than video, and text/keys/etc captured from
the machine even more. As long as my screen and keyboard are out of the frame
of the camera, I don't _really_ care about it getting RATed. At worst, you'll
see me naked, or making angry/etc. faces at someone on irc or email. While
embarrassing it would be less bad than most of what you could accomplish by
stealing actual information.

OTOH, carrying around a microphone connected to the Internet which can be
remotely enabled at any time without leaving any real trace (battery
use/network use is the only real sign, although even that could be covered up
to a great degree -- there is probably a way to do either low-fidelity or
infrequent audio pickup, maybe keyed on location and charger state, and on-
device pre-processing) -- people do this all the time Mostly because there's
no real alternative to carrying smartphone yet.

Plus, of course, there's the fact that no modern desktop OS is particularly
secure -- either you give up auto-updates and likely fall to bugs, or use
auto-updates and are at risk to your OS vendor or anyone who can compel him.
So sensors attached to it, as well as stuff processed on it, is also at risk.
You can somewhat mitigate this through a large combination of other
protections, but it's almost impossible for a single user single machine to
solve that problem.

I'd love a custom run of Dell Chromebook 13 or Lenovo Thinkpad 13 Chrome
Edition with no built-in mic/camera, and an EPROM vs. EEPROM, and some special
case features. Would be willing to commit to buy 10k units at ~$800/unit
retail in 8-16GB x 32GB config.

~~~
50CNT
Some laptops already have physical switches for wireless connectivity,
couldn't you just add one of those that cuts power to the onboard microphone
and camera?

~~~
krylon
At work, two of our users have Asus notebooks (I forgot the model, though)
where the "On/Off"-switch for the camera just moves a piece of plastic in
front of the lense. _Maybe_ it also turns of the camera, but once the lense is
covered it doesn't really matter any more. I like the idea, and since it must
be rather cheap, too, I wonder why not more companies do this.

~~~
undersuit
If you buy the business version of my webcam you get a plastic cover for $2
over the cost of the consumer variant. One day I might spend $15 for a cover:
[http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I005TPS](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I005TPS)

~~~
krylon
On the one hand, for a price difference of $2, I would go for the version with
the plastic cover.

On the other hand, with an external webcam, I can simply disconnect it. If you
have a laptop built into a laptop that is not so easy to do. At least, you
have to trust the laptop's manufacturer to do that, while a builtin plastic
cover is so simple one does need to "trust" it; at the same time, you can't
retrofit it on a laptop... :(

------
kobayashi
>"I saw something in the news, so I copied it. I put a piece of tape — I have
obviously a laptop, personal laptop — I put a piece of tape over the camera.
Because I saw somebody smarter than I am had a piece of tape over their
camera."

Such a telling statement. It's my belief that this man does not adequately
comprehend the magnitude of the issues at hand. General Hayden, on the other
hand, is a man whom I believe to actually understand the technology that he
was charged with professional addressing.

~~~
jd3
Hayden understands technology like a politician understands rhetoric. He's a
snake.

~~~
dsl
I recently had the chance to meet Gen. Hayden. He is quite competent and could
hold his own in a technical discussion at a high level. He understood the
minutiae of the Clinton email scandal and shared some insights that made me
reconsider my view on the issue.

~~~
wavefunction
What was your view on the issue?

I had read that they didn't even have SSL on the box for some time after it
was up and running.

------
jandrewrogers
This can't be unfamiliar to the director of the FBI. I have tape on my laptop
cameras placed there by intelligence agencies as a prerequisite for bringing
my laptop inside their security perimeter, albeit in a quarantined space.

The reason I was given for the tape when asked was interesting, since they
obviously didn't care about the microphone. Supposedly it was possible for the
camera to capture people in the facility in the background and through glass
that could be matched with facial recognition. The very fact that certain
people were seen inside their facility could be sufficient to expose secrets
they wanted to protect. Audio, on the other hand, just captures ambient noise
in quarantined spaces which isn't that interesting since the discussion is not
classified. In that sense, the camera has much greater range than the
microphone. Which makes some sense.

But surely the Director of the FBI would know this.

------
a3n
> "absolute privacy" hampers law enforcement.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that
they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among
these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed, ..."

Sorry man, you were instituted to serve me, at my consent and pleasure, not
the other way around. You have the make the case to me to do what you want,
not the other way around.

------
tlrobinson
EFF sells a sticker set specifically for this purpose:
[https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-
set](https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set)

~~~
NelsonMinar
They're really nice, too. Thick enough to block almost all light. And Post-It
Note-like glue, so you can remove and replace the sticker occasionally.

------
dublinben
So does my mother. She is able to coherently explain why, though, and isn't a
massive hypocrite when she does so.

------
everly
I'd be interested in finding out how many people do this with the front facing
camera on their phone. It seems to be a much lower percentage than those who
do it with their laptop webcam (from what I've observed at least).

~~~
Kenji
I recently did it with the front facing camera of my phone. The back facing
camera always points into the table. I feel uncomfortable undressing myself
with that 'eye' staring at me (crazy times we live in ;p). I mean, this is one
of those security measures that cost you basically nothing (a sticker) and can
save you a huge ache in the unlikely case that someone is actually recording -
why not do it?

~~~
Digit-Al
That seems a little silly to me. A laptop camera is normally facing into the
room, but the camera on your phone will normally be facing upwards, so surely
you have nothing to worry about unless you are standing naked over your phone.

Actually, that's given me a great idea to secure my phone from hackers. Stand
over it naked and waggle my sack about - that's one camera they'll never ever
hack again lol

~~~
alanwatts
Every time you use your phone your camera is on your face. Facial
microexpressions could be automatically detected and analyzed based on the
content the user was viewing at the time. This information could provide a
detailed emotional picture of the individual as it relates to different
stimuli.

~~~
kuschku
Starbug (CCC hacker) recently found something even better.

You can use the reflection in the eye as keylogger for, say, PIN entry
dialogs.

~~~
alanwatts
If you've already got access to the camera, would it not in many cases be
trivial to have access to the keyboard?

~~~
kuschku
Not when apps implement their own keyboard, for example, PayPal.

------
comboy
I don't really understand the webcam paranoia. If my computer is completely
compromised, somebody watching my face is the least of my worries.

~~~
jws
The first Apple iSight cameras, back in the days of Firewire, had this nifty
mechanical iris that covered the lens. A twist of the bezel ring and it
opened, another and it closed.

Granted, just that feature was 6 times the volume of a modern webcam and
probably three times the cost, but it did perfectly address people's
discomfort with the eye staring at them.

For some reason, the ear listening to them doesn't seem to evoke the same
reaction. I don't know anyone that tries to deafen their microphone.

~~~
comboy
Exactly, microphone provides much more useful information and requires similar
permissions. Not many people seem to be unsoldering them.

Regarding webcam, led is OK, but it shouldn't be driven by some firmware, it
should be a simple circuit - when there is a voltage on the camera Vdd, the
led is on. I don't know how it is with the newest macbooks and if the led is
still hackable.

------
x0054
How stupid do you have to be to doubt the security of your laptop enough to
put tape over your webcam, but not enough to stop using it all together. If
you are concerned that your laptop might be compromised, then you should stop
using it. If hackers have access to your webcam, they most certainly also have
access to your keyboard, mic, and every file on your system as well. So, what
you are basically saying to the world is you don't care enough about your
personal communication, files, and speech to properly secure your laptop, but
by god, no one shall see you in front of your laptop. It's like sitting in a
car that's on fire and saying to your self: "I know, I'll turn on the air
con!"

~~~
leereeves
"Stop using it altogether" isn't a viable option, because it's not _this
particular_ laptop whose security is questionable, it's _every_ laptop.

~~~
x0054
That may be true, but again, what do you care about more, your files and key
strokes, or your webcam. If you have tape over your webcam but you still use
online banking, you are a fucking idiot. You either have faith in the security
of your computer, and log into your bank (risking hackers stealing all your
money) or you don't. But if you don't think twice about saying anything you
want in front of your computer or logging into your bank, but still chose to
have type over your camera, I am sorry, but you are a idiot.

~~~
leereeves
If you have that much faith in the security of your computer, you are "an
idiot". That's not within your control.

It's not dumb to take whatever precautions you can.

And people do worry about having their pictures taken. Remember the scandal
when a school took pictures of children undressed at home with their laptops'
cameras?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District)

~~~
x0054
Yes, I read that story. But you are missing the point. I do not trust in the
security of my laptop implicitly, or any laptop for that matter, but I weigh
my risks proportionally. I care a lot about the security of my laptop because
I care about my bank accounts, my files, and things that I discuss in the
privacy of my own house. Out of all those things, people stealing pictures of
me in front of my computer are not even on the horizon of my concern. If you
have my bank account, all my passwords, and all my files, why the hell would I
care if you also happen to have a picture of me in my underwear? The problem
with the tape over camera "solution" is that people feel safer when they have
tape over their webcam, and they should NOT feel safer, because, unless you
are a celebrity, no one gives a flying fuck about your pictures. Tape over
webcam my FEEL safe, but it's dangerous when it's "implemented" instead of
actual diligent computer security. I know, anything can be hacked, no matter
how careful you are. But some tape over your webcam isn't going to stop it, or
mitigate the damage in any significant way when it does occur.

~~~
leereeves
You may not care about naked pictures, but many people do.

They aren't idiots for realizing that humans are, above all else, sexual
animals.

~~~
x0054
If putting tape over your camera makes you feel safer, by all means go for it.
My guess is though, given that you are on HN and such, that your security
efforts didn't stop at pealing some electrical tape and applying it to your
laptop. The problem is (anecdotally, in my experience) many peoples efforts
stop right there. The FEEL safer without actually being safer. This boils down
to perception of safety vs. reality of safety. This is how they sold us the
patriot act, because it felt safe. We need to stop feeling safe and actually
make efforts to be safe.

~~~
leereeves
Getting back to the context of this post:

I'm sure putting tape over the camera isn't the only security precaution the
director of the FBI has taken.

------
throwaway0209a
I used to have a piece of tape on my webcam. But I figured that it couldn't
possibly be so interesting to see my face, so I took a different strategy, and
moved the tape piece 1cm to the right, so it covers the led indicating if the
camera is in use. I don't trust that LED anyway, and if someone should peek at
me, I do not want to be made aware of it (and thereby distracted)

------
StanislavPetrov
I've been telling friends and family to do this long before the Snowden
revelations (as well as disabling their computers internal microphone). Many
of them mocked me about the shine on my tinfoil hat. They don't do so much
mocking anymore.

------
livus
Honest question. Not to ignore any flame wars

I have been following this surveillance and privacy debate. I understand that
encryption cannot go both ways. We cannot create back doors that are only
available to the good guys. Add to this that the 'good' guys are known to
abuse power.

But I also cannot deny that at certain times there are legitimate reasons for
law enforcement. What solution, maybe political if not technical, can we adopt
to meet the legitimate demands of law enforcement?

~~~
diego_moita
> What solution, [...], can we adopt to meet the legitimate demands of law
> enforcement?

One big problem is how to distinguish "legitimate" from not. In ideal
conditions you'd have a court order to do so. But what good is a court order
in places where it is very hard to know the difference between a gangster and
a police officer (e.g.: Latin America, Eastern Europe, Africa, ...)? How do
you protect the "solution" from the bad guys when you are not sure who the
good guys and the bad guys are?

------
sreenadh
Is it just me or is there at least one other person laughing their ass-off.
Honestly, I am not sure to know if I am laughing at or feeling sorry for the
FBI director. I felt that the director of FBI would not be scared of anyone
monitoring him.

~~~
beardog
Nation state spies, criminal groups, insiders that want to whistleblow, etc.
etc.

------
downandout
I think it's a big stretch to compare this to uncrackable encryption. While
the piece of tape makes one avenue of surveillance impossible, it doesn't
block them all. If law enforcement needed to surveil him in the same way that
a webcam could, they could get a court order and place a camera in his home.

Uncrackable encryption, on the other hand, blocks all possible avenues of
surveiling the desired communications. That isn't a bad thing, but it is
different than placing tape over a webcam. I am definitely a proponent of
government-proof encryption technologies, but grasping at straws trying to
call this guy a hypocrite seems like a wasted effort to me.

------
zhte415
Every corporate laptop I've worked with has the camera and microphone
physically removed.

If needed for a function, a USB camera and/or microphone is applied for
through various chains of approval, and plug-in pull-put tracked.

~~~
rhizome
I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad 450S about 6mos ago and configured it without a
webcam/mic.

------
cm3
There are actually smartphones and laptops where you can close the camera with
an integrated sliding window. I don't know of such a thing for integrated
microphones, but Thinkpad's bios allows disabling mic and camera, though if
you don't trust bios's software switch, I'd recommend pulling the internal
cables. Then you can connect a USB headset and/or camera on demand, knowing
there's no always-on mic.

But, since even Windows desktop edition has Cortana these days, I'm afraid mic
will be harder to disable in newer machines.

------
irixusr
NPR suggests people in the director's position have a more legitimate need to
cover their webcams "... It's certainly not unreasonable to worry about
webcams, _especially for someone as high-profile as Comey_ "

And teenagers?

There is no mention in the article of the "Lower Merion School District" case
where school officials were spying on teenagers through their webcams in their
rooms.

Call me old fashioned, but I think that's an important case for the general
public to know about when discussing webcam privacy...

------
giardini
Comey: "Because I saw somebody smarter than I am had a piece of tape over
their camera."

Snowden?

------
daveheq
Wait, is he also blocking the microphone on his laptop? That seems like a much
bigger security risk than his face.

------
mwti
All these little wires [0] emit electromagnetic radiation that be intercepted
and turned back into whatever you see (and more).

Despite what you read on Hacker News no amount of encryption or software
trickery is going to stop this.

[0]: [http://imgur.com/IHXKlNw](http://imgur.com/IHXKlNw)

~~~
colejohnson66
I like to believe that converting those EM signals back into something useful
is beyond the ability of current technology, but I'd be happy to be proven
wrong

~~~
rdl
This has been a known/practical attack for decades. OTOH, it does require
physical proximity, although you could probably do it with a remotely
controlled sensor at an intermediate location near the target.

What would be terrifying would be if someone could figure out how to do this
attack via software compromise of some hardware sensor system already present
throughout the environment; say, a way to repurpose a wifi chipset to pick up
nth-order harmonics off a keyboard bus or something. Then, remote-root of some
lesser machine could be used to spy on a hardened machine.

~~~
gregpilling
That was done a couple years ago

"IN THE AGE of surveillance paranoia, most smartphone users know better than
to give a random app or website permission to use their device’s microphone.
But researchers have found there’s another, little-considered sensor in modern
phones that can also listen in on their conversations. And it doesn’t even
need to ask."

[http://www.wired.com/2014/08/gyroscope-listening-
hack/](http://www.wired.com/2014/08/gyroscope-listening-hack/)

------
dsmithatx
If I were director of the FBI I'd have an internet device secured by the sharp
minds I hire. Probably more than one to route through and log packets,
especially outgoing ones. I'd think as director of the FBI you could even get
something like that setup on your personal laptop. I've been using OpenBSD,
Snort, and also FreeBSD/PFSense to monitor my networks for at least 16 years
even my own personal ones. The fact such a high profile target (and his team)
can't figure out technology in this way seriously let's us know how inept and
incompetent they must be.

If he worries someone is watching him through his webcam I wonder how he feels
about the microphone? Does he talk about top secret things in front of
laptops?

------
robertkrahn01
Ever seen Whitfield Diffie's Laptop? ;) [http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-
sticky-tape-can-secure-your...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-sticky-tape-
can-secure-your-macbook/)

~~~
tlrobinson
It's not that uncommon. EFF sells a sticker set specifically for this purpose:
[https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-
set](https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set)

------
make3
Genuinely funny song on the issue : The Government Knows \- Knower :
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zH9Zca1vRM&app=desktop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zH9Zca1vRM&app=desktop)

------
awqrre
So even the FBI can't protect their networks?

~~~
nitrogen
From HN 3 days ago: "FBI Says a Mysterious Hacking Group Has Had Access to US
Govt Files for Years"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433178](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433178)

------
ww520
I put a tape over the camera on all my laptops. It's just basic security
measure.

~~~
chrisper
Or is it basic paranoia? Who draws the line where?

------
workerIbe
If it's a company laptop, put tape on it.

~~~
mrep
What are you doing while using your company laptop???

~~~
elchief
you don't wanna know...

------
grumble1234
While it's not reasonable to ask this of everyone, it would seem to me that if
anyone should strive to have "nothing to hide" it would be politicians and
people in positions where they are definitely under foreign surveillance.

Like okay, they have to do deal with classified material and sensitive things
- but there is a time and place for that and I trust the FBI director doesn't
use his personal laptop for work.

He should be basically streaming his video camera on the internet for everyone
to see - b/c the people that want to see it probably will

------
jff
For a while there, when built-in webcams weren't quite as common, my employer
would either remove the camera completely or, if that wasn't possible, they
would smash the lens and sensor with a metal punch.

They eventually quit (now we can use Lync to do video calls, even) but a lot
of people now put little sliding windows over their cameras (you can get them
at conferences these days, branded with the Splunk logo or whoever's giving
them out)

~~~
randominion
I use vinyl cling material to cover up the cams, but what you described is
much better and exactly what I want. Got any pics?

~~~
jff
Like this: [http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/21g%2Bop3AZBL.jpg](http://ecx.images-
amazon.com/images/I/21g%2Bop3AZBL.jpg)

------
asab
At 25:20 Comey cites "liberty and security" as American founding values,
rather than "liberty and justice"

------
dandare
Isn't mic of much bigger importance than camera?

------
strooper
I wonder what he uses as a (Smart)phone, if he uses any at all. Since there
are very few with physical lens cover for the back camera, and probably none
covering both (the front camera and the back).

Recently, I have got back to feature phone after decade long struggle with
several smartphones, keeping all on my desk for app development purpose only.
I hope Comey would follow me. If not doing it now. ;)

------
zekevermillion
In Russian FSB top officials use only typewriters, and physically destroy the
ribbons when done. Compare to our security officials, current and former. The
political appointees who helm our security state bureaucracies bring to mind
one's kindly uncle who still emails from AOL and forwards pop econ items from
yahoo news.

------
CullingTheHerd
So 21st century.

If this was 20 years ago, headline would read: "The FBI Director Puts Electric
Tape Over His Blinking VCR Clock"

------
themartorana
Trust me, I wouldn't.

------
thorin
Best surveillance film ever
[http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/](http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0071360/)

------
daveheq
The FBI knows how bad hardware and software security is, as well as how
they're being exploited, and doesn't want the same things he wants from you.

------
billhendricksjr
Don't almost all cameras activate their "on" light when being used?

~~~
JohnTHaller
Like phones, most laptop webcams have no "on" light.

You have to trust that the software you have on your device isn't using the
microphone and camera without your permission.

~~~
nyolfen
you and i have very different experience with webcams. i have yet to see a
webcam without an indicator led in my life.

~~~
JohnTHaller
My just retired Acer laptop has no such light. My HP Windows tablet I use with
a bluetooth keyboard doesn't either.

I checked and my new(ish) XPS 13 does have a tiny light when you use it as
does my ASUS 2-in-1.

So I'm at 50-50 in my collection. I asked my girlfriend and she doesn't recall
there being a light on her Toshiba laptop and she does Skype with it semi-
regularly.

------
known
He should NOT represent FBI as long as he puts tape over his webcam;

------
ck2
no-one tell him the mic is still always on

------
dschiptsov
I am using a small sticker from some apples brand.)

------
trollian
tin. foil. hat.

