

The DIY Danes planning to launch a man into space - cromulent
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/15/diy-danes-launch-man-space

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jholman
This is awesome, and nothing in this comment is meant to take away from that
awesome, only to contextualize it.

Getting above the Karman Line (100km above sea level) and getting into orbit
are dramatically different problems. In case the name "Copenhagen Suborbitals"
didn't make it clear, they're shooting for the former.

For an amusingly-illustrated take on this, see the recent [http://what-
if.xkcd.com/58/](http://what-if.xkcd.com/58/)

As another piece of context, compare the size of the rocket used by Scaled
Composites (to win the X-Prize) with the size of rocket used by SpaceX. What's
the difference? One can orbit, and the other cannot.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Ship_One](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Ship_One)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9)

~~~
jonmrodriguez
[http://what-if.xkcd.com/58/](http://what-if.xkcd.com/58/)

This xkcd explains this really well. At orbital height, Earth's gravity's pull
is still a full 90% of what we experience on the surface. Orbiting objects
"dodge" this fall by going _really fucking fast_.

I think I saw a comparison once that it takes about 15~20X more energy to
attain orbit speed as it does to attain orbital height.

~~~
barking
So is this centrifugal force counteracting gravity?

So then gravity would be like your hand's grip preventing the bucket from
flying away when you swing a bucket of water?

If this is the case then I think I'd understand the way planets don't fall
into the sun better. The way I've heard it described before as something like
'forever falling into the sun' confusing.

~~~
jacquesm
It's actually a very gradual spiraling inward. This is because the momentum
imparted initially is slowly dissipated (by impacts & interaction with the
gravitational field of the sun), an extremely small factor.

The question is whether the sun will go nova before or after we (or our
sterilized remains) finally arrive :)

That's not the only effect, all of this is counteracted by the decrease in
mass of the sun and the tidal interaction between the sun and its planets
(which slows down the rotation of the sun), both of these should push the
earth outward from the sun.

I'm not sure how it all works out (whether it is a net positive or a net
negative) but it can't be much or we'd have drifted out of the zone where life
is sustainable long ago.

~~~
jlgreco
Tidal forces between the Earth and its Moon in fact result in the Moon (very
slowly) getting further and further away from the earth.

~~~
jacquesm
Yep. The actual experimental verification of this makes for very interesting
reading.

see:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment)

and lots of links referenced from there.

Amazing precision, I still find it quite incredible that such a distance could
be reliably measured to such precision and that meaningful conclusions could
be drawn from those measurements.

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ptrf
Copenhagen Suborbitals Supporter here. I just wanted to let you know that
these guys have an awesome youtube profile over here:
[http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPzFMJIsp2fOQ_ic5a_zXTA](http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPzFMJIsp2fOQ_ic5a_zXTA)

Also, you may find more information on this page
[http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/support_us.php](http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/support_us.php)
(Yeah, shameless linking to the support us-page.

Peter Madsen writes in Danish on his blog on the Danish newspaper Ingeniøren:
[http://ing.dk/blogs/rumfart-pa-den-anden-made](http://ing.dk/blogs/rumfart-
pa-den-anden-made)

Kristian von Bengtson is blogging on wired.com:
[http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/rocketshop/](http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/rocketshop/)

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c10n
For anyone not following the project, here is a small status of where they are
(please note that I'm just lurking - any errors below are mine):

Founded in 2008, as an open source and non-profit project. Currently about 40
people involved on a volunteer basis. The support organisation has about 800
paying members.

The first major success was the flight of the HEAT 1X Tycho Brahe, a 6 meter
65 cm Ø rocket and launch vehicle, which was test fired over the Baltic sea on
3rd June 2011 and was aborted at an altitude of 2.8 km.

The HEAT 1X Tycho Brahe was passively stable and propelled by a Polyurethane
fuel with LOX oxidizer.

After this, the focus shifted towards liquid propelled rockets (75% alcohol
LOX) and currently the TM65 engine has been tested numerous times and is due
for a launch next summer. In the most recent version the rocket is fed by a
H2O2 driven Turbo pump and can provide around 65 kN of thrust.
[http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/tm65.php](http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/tm65.php)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TM65](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TM65)

In parallel, work has been done on a number of other sub projects

\- the launch vehicle Tycho Deep Space II
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Suborbitals#Tycho_De...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copenhagen_Suborbitals#Tycho_Deep_Space))
\- the Launch Escape System (LES) \- the space suit
([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcZOsdoCjqU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcZOsdoCjqU))
\- active stability system tested on the Sapphire rocket
([http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/sapphire.php](http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/sapphire.php))
which was successfully launched to a height of more than 8 km on June 23, 2013
([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcF5xNrb3HA&feature=c4-overvi...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcF5xNrb3HA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUPzFMJIsp2fOQ_ic5a_zXTA)).

Also, the plans for the next version of the rocket (the HEAT 1600) which might
use either a cluster of TM65s or a single engine.
[http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/05/heat-1600-concept-...](http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/05/heat-1600-concept-
development-the-manifestation-of-dreams-and-ambitions-for-download/)

A manned launch is 3–5 years away

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Imagenuity
It's great to see people hacking away at space travel. Not everything needs to
be done on a NASA scale. The hard part will be the rocket engine, access to
rocket fuel and launch facilities where you can launch without risking homes
and lives. Denmark is in a poor location for launches: too far north,
surrounded by populated countries, and their likely launch direction would go
over Russia. You need a heat shield if you're planning on orbiting, it's not
needed to go straight up and parachute down. Wish them the best of luck!

~~~
kalms
They always launch from the Baltic sea, and test the engines in and around
Copenhagen.

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eksith
I wish these guys the best of luck and hope they get to do it quickly and
safely. If anything, our drive for beating someone else into space for
political or economic reasons has really poisoned the well, so to speak. Maybe
it does take the crazy pioneers to get up to the Black Sky... just because
it's there.

~~~
gnerd
> If anything, our drive for beating someone else into space for political or
> economic reasons has really poisoned the well, so to speak.

I assume you are American. If so, I may be fuzzy on the historical facts, but
didn't the Russians beat you guys into space?

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eksith
Yep. Which is why we took enormous risks and end up losing 3 astronauts in
Apollo 1, which wasn't even a proper spaceflight, on our way to beat them to
the Moon.

Russians lost 4 cosmonauts as well on 2 separate missions.

Like I said. Poisoned well.

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bencollier49
I immediately thought "Kerbal Space Program".

This is extremely cool.

~~~
rhengles
This reminded me of the 2006 film The Astronaut Farmer with Billy Bob
Thornton.

~~~
bencollier49
I hadn't heard of that film at all! Will be watching it at some point in the
future, it sounds like fun.

