
Uber rolls out in-app tipping - vthallam
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/06/20/uber-rolls-out-in-app-tipping-for-drivers/
======
whiddershins
I am so unhappy about this change. I tip well everywhere it is expected,
restaurants, bars, cabs etc. I hate the system but it is factored in to the
price and there's nothing I can do about it.

What I loved about Uber when it started was there was no ambiguity. Prices
were predictable, as were wait times.

Zero cognitive overhead. No guilt or internal debate.

Over time every little thing I loved about Uber was taken away in the name of
lowering prices. Agitation about driver wait times. Wildly fluctuating cost of
rides. Wildly varying rider wait times. Drivers canceling undesirable trips.

And now tips.

It's just one little thing, but it's the death of what I valued in their
service.

What if instead of all these nitpicking changes, they kept the fares a bit
higher and simply paid the drivers a bit more? I guess in their calculus that
was unsustainable.

So basically the people who were penny pinching trying to get the cheapest
rides drove lower prices so now I will tip (probably too well) and underwrite
those same people who will likely also not tip because they will decide it is
optional.

~~~
cletus
+1

And Uber is... gone (from my phone). I hate tipping with a passion and despite
Uber's questionable practices I was prepared to use it instead of Lyft based
solely on tipping.

So now I, as a user, have to concern myself with issues like: is the driver
actually getting the tip? Or is Uber taking a cut? Does this mean Uber is
paying the driver less because they can now get a tip?

I don't want to have to concern myself with issues like this. I really don't.

~~~
verelo
Yeah this is stupid. I'm not sure what I'm tipppng for anyway,"good driving" a
"clean car"? These are the comments I can see being assigned to tips. Can I
just, please, have a fixed priced service without frills to get me to and from
places. It's not an experience I care enough about to optimize the time with
my service operator, by bribing them to treat me better than others.

I'm glad it's summer, less taxis and more biking!

~~~
lazerpants
Assuming you're in NYC (based on the last sentence), you should check out
Juno. They take a smaller percentage of revenue for the trip, and that makes
me feel far better about not tipping.

~~~
verelo
Toronto :(

------
pricees
This new direction is backwards.

Pay the drivers what they are worth. How hard is that? Seriously. How hard is
it to just give an honest wage for honest work?

WashPo: "[Uber] recast itself as a company with a conscience and a heart."

Correction: Uber is passing the conscience and heart part onto its users so
that it doesn't have to. Now I am going to feeling like jerk when I don't give
someone a tip. That was my favorite part about uber. Don't make think about
taxes and tip. How silly would it be if Uber was a restaurant? WashPo:
"Restaurant shows magninimity by allowing patrons to supplement the low wages
of the restaurant with a tip of their own!" Progress.

~~~
pm24601
For Uber's price structure -- very hard. Uber's "farebox recovery" is a lower
percentage than most public transit agencies.

------
bpicolo
Why not just raise the prices a bit again? Now I'm worried I'll get down-
starred for not tipping on Uber, which is just kind of annoying. I feel like
not requiring a tip is Uber's biggest differentiator

~~~
RunawayGalaxy
You answered your own question. Why raise prices and risk losing customers
when they can just use widely accepted social pressure to coerce you into
subsidizing their cost of doing business for free?

~~~
savanaly
It's not like they're fooling anyone though...regular users of uber will know
the average outlay from using an uber is $X, whether it's through the fares
charged or a lower fare plus expected tip. I would much rather have a higher
fare than the stress of figuring out how much to tip. I could just decide on a
tip to always give, but what about those times when the service is really
shitty? Do I "get back" at them by leaving no tip? Isn't that the whole
purpose of the tipping process? But that makes me feel like a shitty person,
and the cognitive outlay in thinking about all of this is just annoying.

~~~
londons_explore
I'm gonna guess they'll keep the tips secret until many hours after the
journey (and when both driver and passenger have left star ratings). They
might even aggregate tips for the week/month.

That way, if you leave no tip, it can't come back and bite you.

~~~
savanaly
But it will come back to bite me in a psychological way. I don't want to feel
like the sort of person who doesn't tip when tipping is expected, I want to
use a service where I don't have to think about tipping and can feel like a
decent person. If that service has to cost more then so be it.

------
SilasX
Well, there goes my last reason for using Uber. I had been really excited that
they were the one oasis pushing back against the tipping culture[1].

Particularly troubling is the framing:

>Uber is enabling passengers to tip its U.S. drivers with a tap on its ride-
hailing app for the first time, part of a push to recast itself as a company
with a conscience and a heart.

What? As if anyone preferring that a service be upfront about prices is
"heartless"? Anyone who doesn't want tip jars at the grocery store checkstand
or bus farebox is heartless? All of Europe and Asia are heartless?

As if all of the alternatives for increasing driver compensation are
heartless? (Higher payouts or the Sidecar drivers-set-prices model.)

[1] Before anyone says it, yes I know you have to pay more for a tip-free
service; I'm not an idiot. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the lack of
consistent, clear, compatible expectations it involves, and being stuck in the
position of either a) overpaying, b) making a silent faux pas, or c) having
negative feedback misinterpreted as stinginess.

~~~
linkregister
Yeah, all the tipping advocates are probably not aware that most countries
don't have tipping. Restaurant staff are paid according to local wages. So a
racial minority won't be paid less than someone from the majority race.
European and Australian restaurant staff aren't depending on arbitrary tips.
They know exactly what they are going to make at the beginning of their shift.
They don't feel like they're working for peanuts for rolling napkins or
putting chairs on tables.

It's probably not a bad idea to just select the $0 option when the tip screen
shows up... until drivers start insisting on seeing you enter your tip before
awarding your 5-star rating.

~~~
wcummings
I think most restaurant staff split tips, so no one will be paid less than
anyone else if they get low tips.

~~~
linkregister
I don't know what percentage of restaurants do that. From my anecdata, few
restaurants do it. Also, California law prohibits it.

~~~
kelnos
I believe CA law prohibits sharing tips with the kitchen staff, not pooling
tips among the front-room staff.

And pretty much every bar/restaurant I know of pools tips, not the opposite as
you suggest.

------
cocktailpeanuts
It is sad that companies like Uber are being pressured into making these
stupid decisions because of "social justice".

For me the main benefit of using Uber (as well as all other on-demand services
like Doordash, Caviar, etc.) was that everything is included and I don't have
to think.

Companies like Uber should be focused on building a product that consumers
want and nothing else. These decisions are nothing more than the company being
bullied (by the media and activists) into making politically correct decisions
that brings NO benefit to any parties involved, including the drivers.

If anyone thinks this will eventually be beneficial for the drivers they're
short-sighted. It's just turning Uber into a Taxi experience.

~~~
veridies
If they're being bullied into this decision (and I don't think they are), it's
not because they're too timid to stand up to the media. It's because their
customers might leave them, because their customers prefer companies that act
more justly.

You're arguing that a company should act only in its own rational self-
interest. That's a reasonable point of view. But there's zero evidence that
this is not in Uber's self-interest.

EDIT: I saw your comment in response to smt88. I do want to pay more for a
taxi. I want to be able to control how much I pay according to how good of a
service was provided, and I want to feel like the taxi driver is getting a
decent pay rate. That's one of the reasons I typically use Lyft, and if it
weren't for a terrible experience with Uber customer service, this decision
would make me more likely to use Uber again.

~~~
nailer
Pressuring consumers into paying more than the negotiated price isn't 'acting
more justly'

~~~
criddell
There isn't much of a negotiation though.

Somebody else said than an early version of the Uber app let customers define
their tip in the app and it was automatically applied. Maybe they should bring
that back and also give drivers the ability to filter on that value.

~~~
nailer
I made a poor choice of words: I mean the agreed price.

No tips. The price is the price and being begged by some asshole won't make
the experience better.

~~~
criddell
You and I have clearly had vastly different rideshare experiences.

I wouldn't describe any of the drivers I've had as being assholes. Every
single one of them was at least friendly. Most were helpful, some extremely
so. Rather than begging for a tip, I was happy to give them a little bit
extra. They appreciate it and I feel good about it. It's win-win.

------
throwaway055
Posting on a throwaway because of tipping stigma.

I take close to 1,000 Uber trips per year.

The biggest disappointment about this change to me is that I won't be having
conversations with Uber drivers anymore.

Uber drivers will now be obligated to make pleasant conversation with me. I
have no interest in speaking to somebody who's obligated to make pleasant
conversation with me.

When you add tipping, you're essentially attaching a financial penalty to
sincerity.

All economic arguments aside, it's just not right to penalize someone for
being in a bad mood that day or not wanting to talk to you. We force these
workers to maintain these totally fabricated upbeat emotional states and we
act like it's normal. It's not normal anywhere else in the world, and I can't
stand it.

Every time I see someone making conversation with a waiter or waitress, it
honestly seems rude to me. They have to talk to you, they have to agree with
you, they have to smile and laugh at your joke. By having a conversation with
them you're forcing them to do all of these things, and if they don't, you're
going to take money off their tab. That is just rude.

Uber will have access to all the data related to tipping, the fare splits will
be adjusted accordingly, and Uber drivers' pay will normalize to exactly what
it already would have been without tipping.

~~~
throwaway056
As someone who literally works for tips, I've found that I make more tips when
I am sincere with guests (of the hotel that I work at).

~~~
kelnos
That makes sense; most people can tell if you're just making conversation in
order to suck up to someone vs. are genuinely interested in talking to them.
So if you genuinely do care about a person and show that through your
interaction with them, they'd be likely to appreciate it more, and show that
appreciation.

I'm curious, though: if you have nothing to say to a person, and don't say
anything, do you get more or less of a tip than if you were to (insincerely)
attempt to make polite conversation?

------
vthallam
The most important feature I liked in Uber relative to lyft was no tipping.
Why not spike the price up a little and compensate them.

When they have started, the motto was, "Uber - Your private driver" and it was
truly like that until today I tip the driver like every other service you get.

~~~
SamLevin88
Why are people up in arms over this? Being able to tip on Lyft is one of my
favorite parts and from what I've read and understood, it generally favors the
drivers. You don't need to tip immediately, a nice little dialog pops up with
pre-configured amounts, and you can go above and beyond if you had good
service

~~~
smileysteve
Because tipping is racist, sexist, and classist --- tips don't correlate with
levels of service and reduce predictability in working and using a service.

~~~
doublevea
> Because tipping is racist, sexist, and classist

Surely this has to be facetious? If not I would love to hear you elaborate?

~~~
_1
[http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...](http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=articles)

> consumers of both races discriminate against black service providers by
> tipping them less than white service providers

~~~
doublevea
This is hardly a scientific study and does nothing to prove that the practice
of tipping in itself is racist/sexist.

------
justboxing
I don't use Uber or Lyft, but if I was, this would drive me away from Uber.

From what I hear from my friends who use Uber, 1 reason they love it is
because all the charges are through the app and there is no "obligation" to
tip, so it's 1 less decision them have to make, i.e. calculate how much to
tip, keep wondering if you tipped the driver too much, or too little, what's a
"fair" tip for the ride etc etc.

~~~
pfarnsworth
There's still no obligation to tip whatsoever. After your ride, when you next
open the app (which could be days later) you are presented with a screen
asking you to rate your driver (this already occurs). I think if you give a 5
star, then the option to give a "compliment" is given, which is similar to a
badge or a Facebook like. As well, now, a tip button is also presented. You
don't have to click on it if you don't want to.

I will never tip with zero guilt.

~~~
kelnos
> I will never tip with zero guilt.

I suspect you're in the minority. Most people (in the US, anyway), when
presented with an explicit option to tip, will do so out of a sense of
obligation, or out of a desire not to be seen as a cheapskate -- even if the
decision whether or not to tip is anonymous! Unfortunately that's how
ingrained tipping culture is here.

~~~
TheArcane
This 'feeling' doesn't exist in Europe or a big part of Asia.

~~~
kelnos
I'm well aware of that and acknowledged I was only talking about the US, which
is where Uber is (at least initially) rolling out this mis-feature.

------
opportune
Now I'm going to start using Lyft again. The tipping model is terrible and
given the option I'll always shy away from it. Even though Lyft has the same
feature, they pay better, so I don't feel bad for not tipping them.

Also having to deal with some of the shadier/creepier drivers expecting tips
sounds like something I'd rather not deal with.

~~~
seattle_spring
You're going to switch to Lyft, which has had a tipping model for ages,
because a competitor is just now adding tipping?

~~~
mikeash
Sure. If Lyft is otherwise better, and Uber is getting rid of the one thing
that keeps me using it, doesn't it make sense to switch?

------
BoiledCabbage
For something that is supposed to be friction free, tipping really runs
against that.

We all know that next there are going to be the subtle and not-so subtle
encouragements from drivers to tip. Then the expectation to tip.

This move seems to only confuse me as a consumer, create something else for
drivers to be annoyed about (the tips they receive vs what uber claimed
they'll see), and adding an additional cognitive layer in payments.

I don't see the lasting benefit here. Just increase prices or increase driver
share of payout.

~~~
prostoalex
Lyft seems to have nailed it - the tip is not necessarily immediate (and can
be added 3 days later), and the payout to the driver is in a single anonymized
chunk, so it's not easy (or too late) to track the rider to the tip amount.

~~~
furioussloth
Uber is giving you 30 days to tip the driver . They will also be giving single
aggregated chunk at the end of day or week.

------
linkregister
I used to abhor the in-app tipping option in Lyft. But increasingly I would be
asked to tip cash by drivers when I used Uber. My rating started to get lower
as the cultural expectation to tip cash took hold.

It turns out the Lyft model, where the driver doesn't know whether or not the
rider tipped, is better for the rider. The rider doesn't have to carry cash in
order to avoid getting extorted for a 5-star rating.

Tipping culture in restaurants is subsidizing substandard wages for servers.
Tipping culture for taxis and the gypsy cab apps (Uber, Didi, Lyft, etc)
doesn't have to take hold. Maybe now that the option is in-app, riders will
eventually stop using it.

I hope, at least, that the tipping option is confined to U.S. rides. The rest
of the world doesn't need to get infected with it.

~~~
kemitche
I usually avoid making comments like this, but I'm surprised I had to go down
so far to find a mention of Uber's existing tip culture. It's far better for
passengers for tipping to be app integrated, and thus optional with less
pressure from the driver, rather than Uber's prior system which resulted in
many drivers effectively begging for cash tips.

~~~
wutbrodo
> I usually avoid making comments like this, but I'm surprised I had to go
> down so far to find a mention of Uber's existing tip culture

This may be because of the markets that HN readers are skewed towards and the
fact that they may not have this culture at all. I live in San Francisco, have
used Uber for about 5-6 years (since well before UberX), and have probably
taken hundreds of rides: I've literally not once ever had a driver ask me for
a cash tip, let alone the ridiculous experiences others on this thread are
describing of drivers holding your rating hostage until you tip.

~~~
linkregister
It wasn't until 2016 until I was actively asked by drivers for cash tips.

Just wait until you want a ride into Sausalito or Oakland.

Either that or you'll get a text from the driver pretending to be official
Uber/Lyft:

    
    
        Notice: this driver's area is restricted to [geographical area].
        Cancel this ride and request again or face a $5 cancellation fee.
        --Lyft/Uber dispatch"

------
clamprecht
Don't Make Me Think. Charge me more if you must, but don't make me think.

~~~
HappyTypist
Exactly. Add $1 to every fare and remit that without taking a cut. There!

------
dwg
Not having to deal with tips is THE reason I never bother checking Lyft. Now I
guess I have no reason not to check both. Smart move Uber?

Aside from that, this is terrible news to me. The tip system is so flawed. 99%
of people in America do not consider tips optional, but service here is no
better for it. I want to pay a fair wage. I don't want to tip. Is there simply
no market for this?

------
djyaz1200
Tipping sucks because then the driver wants to build a relationship with me
instead of letting me just zone out or check email or something. I don't want
to have a single serving friend every time I need to go somewhere.

~~~
rrradical
I actually really enjoy talking to my driver. They usually have a very
different background than me. Maybe they recently immigrated from another
country, for example. And it's neat to hear a bit about their life.

If you think of interacting with another human as a chore, then it will be a
chore. But if you think of it an an opportunity to learn, then it can be very
rewarding I think.

~~~
isatty
I enjoy talking to my uber drivers as well but I don't want them to be obliged
to talk to me. I'm an extroverted person and I enjoy chatting, but there are
times when I'm busy and want to check my email etc; but with tipping there'll
be more drivers who start the conversation and it'll be rude to not reply.

Honestly though, I don't see the need for tipping to make people interact with
each other. I've been taking uber for years (both in southern California and
Singapore) and I don't see the need for this.

~~~
rrradical
I use Lyft, which has always had tipping, and I don't find this to be an
issue. Usually I am the one that starts the conversation. And I'm no fan of
tipping in general, but there's a lot more to a ride besides conversation that
someone might want to tip for.

------
mrslave
I have gleaned - from such authoritative sources as TV - that tipping appears
to be a large part of customer service culture in the USA. (Though I wouldn't
be surprised to learn that it varies by region. Because the USA is just New
York and California, right?)

I think this will have a negative effect on the experience of both driver &
rider in countries where tipping is unusual, due to the increasing ambiguity
of the fee. Especially if ratings become contingent upon tip.

It also seems to not fit the model. In a dining establishment there is a three
party arrangement (restaurateur, customer, and server) and the assumption that
the best way to motivate servers is to create a separate financial
relationship between them and the customer. Uber already has well defined
payments for all three parties, and channels for rating drivers and riders.

~~~
baddox
My impression and experience is that it's pretty widespread in the US,
although I've heard that the specific per-service expectations vary. I've
never been anywhere in the US where tips weren't expected for sit-down
restaurant waiters.

~~~
mercutio2
Extremely fancy restaurants are moving away from tipping. Everywhere else in
the US, tips are expected and depended on by restaurant staff.

In California workers are at least paid minimum wage, ignoring tips, but in
most states, restaurant workers are almost entirely dependent on tips to earn
a living wage.

It’s a terrible system for a variety of reasons.

------
sambe
This seems like a complete inversion of the service incentives. The initial
reason to use Uber was huge convenience and service quality. Uber Lux/Exec (or
whatever they call it now) offered a vastly superior service to taxis for a
~20% price increase. Service is kept honest via ratings, prices are acceptable
for that quality increase. Drivers were polite and looked after you (no music,
water etc.). Uber X then comes in to compete with mainstream taxis (fair
enough) but overall quality drops across the entire service.

Now _you_ get rated (for sitting?) and must compete with other passengers on
tipping, whilst service quality continues to drop. Not tipping for bad service
lowers your rating dramatically, so you have to tip for mediocre/bad service
and sneak in a bad rating, which increasingly has little effect. It used to be
that I could not find an Uber with less than 4.8, because you couldn't last
like that as a driver. I now regularly getting mediocre service from ~4.5.

My immediate feeling is that I should stop using Uber almost completely, risk
normal taxis ripping me off occasionally (knowing your city helps) and only
use Uber when really needed (no taxis around, urgent etc), tipping then.

------
colept
I'm happy for drivers but not a fan of this change.

In Los Angeles I booked a ride and the driver never showed up. After
cancelling the ride I got the $5 charge and luckily their support took care of
it.

But tipping is something that needs to go away. I liked Uber despite their
troubles because I was paying for a service and the minimum viable product is
that the driver gets me from point A to point B safely.

Now what's in a fare? An opportunity to get in a car to pay more money for
them to do their job.

------
kneel
Tipping in the US is guilt driven and has very little to do with service.

This is Uber's attempt pass on the burden of compensation to their passengers.
Uber rides just got a little more awkward.

~~~
Simulacra
..and apparently originated with slavery.
[http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/04/restaurants-t...](http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/04/restaurants-
tipping-racist-origins-saru-jayaraman-forked/)

------
xutopia
I hate, hate, hate tipping!

Just charge me what it costs to give them a living wage and I'm happy!

------
andrewmutz
I really don't like our tipping culture and enjoyed avoiding it with Uber. I'd
be happy to pay 20% higher prices across the board in order to avoid tipping.

~~~
wcummings
You can just tip 20% every time, its done through the app so its not really
any more work, maybe one additional finger tap when you're rating the driver.

~~~
thereare5lights
and that removes the social pressure how?

~~~
wcummings
Maybe I'm just oblivious but this isn't a problem for me.

~~~
thereare5lights
welp, time to pack our bags, if it's not a problem for wcummings, then clearly
it's not a problem for anyone.

------
nxsynonym
Tipping culture needs to die. It's gross and unfair to put the burden of
payment on the customer. It does not improve service, only lets business
owners skate by with paying their employees like dirt.

Restaurant workers, drivers, doormen, valets, whatever - they are doing real
work and should paid as such. If they have a bad attitude then they should be
fired. It should be not up to the customer to 'reward' good behavior.

Uber was already dead in my eyes. I don't love that Lyft even has a tipping
option, but at least it's optional. Why not cut the salaries of the execs
(who, as it's been proven, are worse than useless) and compensate the workers
better?

~~~
deer
> Why not cut the salaries of the execs

I'm afraid that's an executive decision.

------
BoiledCabbage
I love this tidbit

> Riders will be charged by the minute if they keep an Uber car waiting for
> more than two minutes.

And will riders also be reimbursed for waiting for drivers? it seems all to
frequent now that Ubers arrive significantly after their estimated time. Other
times I get drivers that somehow don't move for 5 mins after reserving and yet
accepted a ride.

And there is now no way to cancel out of this within 5 mins. Now you need to
do so within two mins.

~~~
Simulacra
I encounter this problem all the time in the suburbs. Finally a driver let
slip why: He was asleep. They park their car outside their homes, and they go
to sleep. Then when the phone alerts them to a fare, they open their eyes,
accept the fare, then they get dressed, etc. go put gas in the car, maybe some
breakfast, and then come and get you.

------
bengyusf
Tipping does not increase the service you get from someone. It just makes the
customer feel guilty or pay more. Look at Publix: Rated No. 1 in the Temkin
Customer Experience Ratings and No. 2 for Customer Service. But Tipping their
baggers, even if they help you out to your car, is against company policy.

------
DanielBMarkham
How do people describe Uber? Hey look, it's an app. You push a button and a
car shows up. There's no fooling around with calling a company, figuring out a
tip, carrying the correct change, worrying about the quality of the ride. You
just push the button.

They are destroying their unique selling proposition. I can already push
buttons and screw around with cab companies and drivers. I was looking for
better than that. Uber's supposed to be no hassle. What the fuck, guys?

------
bogomipz
I ask this because it is my understanding that drivers can and do rate
passengers on Uber(not sure about Lyft.)

Is it possible that someone who doesn't tip what the driver believe is enough
or if they don't tip at all they will receive a bad passenger rating now, even
if they are courteous and respectful?

I had some hope that the tipping parts of the world would maybe move away from
the practice and just pay people what they are worth:

[https://www.eater.com/2017/1/12/14250128/danny-meyer-
tipping...](https://www.eater.com/2017/1/12/14250128/danny-meyer-tipping-hoax-
slavery)

~~~
mikeklaas
Usually these systems are set up so the driver rates before they find out what
the tip is

~~~
bogomipz
I see, that would make sense. Thanks.

------
withdavidli
They're charging teens more?? The people who earn the least if any at all...
is there a special teens services that I'm not aware of?

And who asked for tipping besides drivers? Hate the concept. Charge us more or
split the fare with them better.

~~~
mtanski
The Uber driver in my neighborhood complained that the teens call up the cab
to go 2 or 4 blocks. They are trying to emulate their parents and seam like a
baler to their friends.

~~~
lojack
They need to raise the minimum fare for that then. Making teens pay more seems
ridiculous to me.

~~~
mtanski
I don't know if that is the cause of it; it's just one data point I heard
(last year).

I'm actually curious what drove the increase. Since they are still in cost
undercutting and competing mode I doubt it's just "because they can". I wonder
if it has anything to do with economics (higher insurance rate) or what.
According to this article: [https://www.geekwire.com/2017/uber-drivers-sound-
alarm-teen-...](https://www.geekwire.com/2017/uber-drivers-sound-alarm-teen-
rider-program-call-additional-protections/)

"Uber says teen rides will only be booked with experienced drivers who have
received consistently positive reviews."

So maybe the pool of drivers is smaller for teen accounts.

Also, teen accounts are not teens paying for it. But an account a parent can
designate for the teen and they pay for it.

~~~
withdavidli
Drivers have to retain a 4.5 star rating to remain drivers I thought. I think
that's a good enough bar. But I guess understandable if they're limiting to
4.9s+

It would be a good business model, like women can request women only would be
a premium.

------
always_good
I used Uber to move across the city recently. Since I don't have much, I just
needed a few SUV trips.

Each time the Uber driver got out and helped me load up his car, and then he
helped me unload. I tipped them with cash except in one case where I just
didn't have bills small enough (wasn't thinking).

This is nice.

~~~
kimsk112
I agree that this is nice. I travel often with big luggages and always
appreciate when drivers got out and helped loading in and out of the car.
Tipping via the app makes my life easier as I don't need to worry about
carrying small bills anymore. But if I have small bills, I will give them cash
instead.

------
mtgx
Terrible decision. Tipping is harmful culture in the long term. It leads to
employees (drivers in this case) being paid less than they should be "because
they will be tipped anyway" and it gives customers anxiety about tipping.
Plus, the employees will start to _expect_ tipping or treat you badly,
especially if their employers consider tipping as part of their salary.

Just a lose-lose situation.

------
nym
One of my favorite things about Uber was not having to deal with tipping. Pay
them a fair wage with fair prices.

------
drzaiusapelord
The main reason I use Uber is so I dont have to get into this weird passive-
aggressive social situation with drivers over tips. Just raise the prices.
Tipping my uber driver is like tipping my McDonalds teller. If pay is an issue
just raise prices.

Tipping is just something abused to keep base prices low. It makes no sense
outside of dishonest pricing schemes.

Also do these drivers really want me to base my tip on the quality of their
driving? I find most uber and cab drivers are unsafe and frankly, shitty
drivers.

------
wolco
I don't like the idea. Many will feel like they have to tip.

This is one of the orginal features that helped drive customers away from
cabs.

------
mabbo
This is a really terrible idea.

It's not that the drivers don't deserve money- far from it. It's that you now
have a company that is desperate for cash, and it is the one who tells the
drivers how much they made in tips. What's to stop them from skimming the
tips? Oh, not too much, not enough that anyone can really point it out, but
just a _little_ bit, right?

And let's not all pretend that a company as morally grey as Uber isn't willing
to do it either. They'll write some legal bullshit into the contract, force
all drivers to either agree to it, or stop driving, and then claim that
everything they did was legal and therefore ethical.

~~~
briffle
They don't need to skim off the top of tips, just follow what restaurants do,
and cut back on wages, since 'they get tips too'

------
blizkreeg
A rhetorical question: what would it take to build a not-for-profit but
'capitalist' platform like Uber with all the features that exist today
(reviews, ratings, scheduled rides etc) where drivers just pay a monthly
subscription fee (say $25-100 based on earnings?) and take the entire earnings
of the ride?

I understand the marketing costs of getting drivers and riders on the platform
but end of the day, if the drivers are going to make more and riders get a
similar experience, it would be an obvious choice to switch, wouldn't it?

Put another way, why isn't anyone doing it? I hardly believe that Uber/Lyft's
model has a wide defensible moat.

~~~
londons_explore
It does have a wide defensible moat: Critical mass. Drivers won't use the app
if there are only a handful of rides per day, and passengers won't use the app
if the nearest car is 15 minutes away.

~~~
blizkreeg
It appears as a wide moat but I'd wager that in reality it's not. The key
factor being unlike most networks, economics rule Uber and Lyft's platforms.
That's a massive incentive. If as a rider, I can get a $5 ride for $4 with a
similar experience and the driver knows he can make every last penny of that
$4 (instead of $3), I don't see why eventually it wouldn't convince them to
switch.

------
ProfessorLayton
I really liked Uber's no-tip policy as it really did make the whole experience
frictionless.

That being said, I believe Lyft pools tips from riders to avoid a tit-for-tat
ratings, and drivers to not know if a rider tipped for a particular trip. If
Uber follows that model, then perhaps this is a reasonable middle ground.

------
inverse_pi
Unpopular opinion: I hate the tipping culture but I love this change. Here's
why: I never rate the drivers right after the trip unless the ride is REALLY
good or REALLY bad. If it's really bad, I want to express my anger. If it's
really good, I want to give the driver compliments. 90% of the times when I
get out of an Uber, I just ignore the app until next time I use it. So to me
personally, this is completely different from regular tipping.

------
cft
I always preferred Uber to Lyft because of no tips.

~~~
myko
I agree - like many commenters here I'd rather see higher prices than tips.

~~~
Simulacra
Wasn't there some court case where Uber was told they could not ban tips?

------
ryan-allen
I think I'd just rather 'tip' the taxi directorate instead. This completely
changes the Uber experience.

------
sidcool
Ah. Tipping enforcement everywhere. And those who oppose the compulsion are
branded cheap.

------
abvdasker
If you've ever talked to a driver this is the thing they always say they want
Uber to change. Props to Uber for listening, even if it took them a while.

~~~
nym
What if they just got paid more?

~~~
abvdasker
Tipping, if done right, is a better solution. Some fraction of customers today
want to tip without being prompted as an expression of gratitude or
appreciation. Some fraction of those customers don't have cash and are then
unable to tip their drivers because the app didn't provide a mechanism to do
that.

This gives riders that option without hurting Uber's bottom line. Paying
drivers more is all well and good, but an increase in fares on the rider side
would reduce marketplace demand and might actually hurt drivers more than it
would help. The alternative is for Uber to eat the cost of paying drivers
more, but that simply isn't viable for a company that's already losing as much
money Uber does. Put simply, Uber is a business that can't really afford to
pay drivers more.

There's a lot that could go wrong with tipping and it remains to be seen
whether Uber rolls this out everywhere, but it's possible that this could end
up being a feature where everyone wins.

~~~
ck425
Everyone wins except the riders. And possibly the countries where there's no
absurd tipping culture and that starts to encourage it.

------
Lanzaa
If this is Uber's way of being more like Lyft I don't think it will help.

~~~
criddell
It can't hurt. The ability to tip was the first reason I started using Lyft.
Uber being a terrible company is the reason I stayed there.

------
davidf18
Because of political restrictions of the number of taxi medallions to only
13,000 for a city of 8.5 million, taxi rates in NYC were extremely high
compared with the rest of the nation. Taxi medallions were worth $1.2 million
benefiting owners of medallions and credit unions that offered mortgages on
them.

For example, Uber is 90 cents per mile in Chicago, but twice that at $1.75
mile in New York.

When Uber/Lyft came along to relieve the politically induced shortage while
easily able to improve customer value by offering more vehicles and at lower
prices, the value of medallions went to $700,000 or less and drivers stopped
driving Yellow Cabs choosing Uber/Lyft instead.

Apparently, people are not required to tip, nor can they receive a bad score
if they don't.

But Uber sold customers a bill of goods which said that tips were
automatically included in the fare, not that there are no tips.

------
jdc0589
screw this; charge a fair price and pay people a fair amount. Relying on the
random generosity of customers to pay your employees/contractors/indentured-
servants a fair wage is a bullshit business model (yes, I am aware this is how
the restaurant industry in the US survives).

------
rasz
Tipping is the consequence of making your working class earn below the living
wage.

------
imgabe
Look, you can't have demand based pricing AND tipping. If you think I'm adding
20% onto a 2.5x surge fare, you're out of your damn mind.

The pricing is dynamic based on supply and demand. If the fares are too low,
that means there's too many drivers and not enough riders. So, if it's not
worth it at that time...don't drive. Prices will go up until drivers decide
it's worthwhile to drive. If they're out they're driving, that means they've
decided the price available at the time is worth it to them.

------
m1sta_
This news has ruined my day. The sooner we get autonomous cars the better.

------
ajarmst
Just to get this straight: people were OK with the abductions, assault and
stalkings; opposition research and personal threats against journalists;
distasteful and probably illegal practices against competitors like booking
fake rides; illegal surveillance of officials charge with regulating them;
predatory surge pricing; classifying workers as independent contractors to
avoid paying benefits or following fair employment laws; ties to Trump;
rampant sexual harassment and toxic bro culture...

But tipping is a deal breaker.

------
sr2
"Why Tipping Should Be Banned", by Adam Ruins Everything is worth watching if
you are of the school of thought that tipping is bad:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vivC7c_1k)

The gist of the video is that if you're tipping, then a waiter/waitress for
example is not being paid enough, and tips are deliberately designed to
bolster their unfair income.

------
hungerstrike
This change probably won't make me any more or less likely to use Uber. The
main thing that keeps me away from Uber is their terrible UX.

Getting a ride is way too streamlined - every single time I have used the Uber
app (infrequently), I was not sure if I had committed to requesting a ride
yet. This is the most annoying thing. Also there is no obvious means of
scheduling a pickup time.

Lyft UX is a lot better and the company seems to not be run by assholes, so I
like to support that whenever I can.

------
nullnilvoid
How does this make Uber the nice guy if the riders tip drivers, not Uber? Uber
still takes a cut of up to 25% of the fare. Anyway, riders can always tip
drivers with small cash.

------
fullshark
Hate this as a consumer.

------
sirteno
I can see this potentially leading to a lot of poor ratings for riders who
don't tip enough. And "enough" in cities like New York is IMO totally skewed..
I hope they implement it in a way that prevents this behavior; e.g. show
aggregate tip stats to drivers, make tip amount visible only after rider
rating.

------
Animats
Then there will be a "suggested tip". Then Uber will try to take a cut.

------
ilaksh
They were winning by just screwing the drivers out of tips -- it was never
actually factored into the fares. I have no car and always use Uber so this is
not good for me but it is less unfair to Uber drivers.

------
ahallock
Was tipping included for Uber Eats? That's where it was definitely needed. I
don't think it's a great feature for the ride service, though.

------
joelrunyon
Is there a non-washingtongpost link?

The fact they block their entire site if you use an ad-blocker is ridiculous
and makes me want to have an alternate source every time.

~~~
Larrikin
I don't think they do? I use ABP and the only time I can't view their site is
when I've used up my 10 free articles for the month.

------
amelius
In restaurants, when a waiter is tipped, the kitchen gets part of the money.
How would that work with Uber? Will programmers receive part of the tip money?

~~~
smeyer
>In restaurants, when a waiter is tipped, the kitchen gets part of the money.

That practice is highly dependent on the restaurant and locale. In many
places, it's illegal to require the waitstaff to pool tips with the kitchen.

[https://www.eater.com/2016/2/26/11119264/restaurants-tip-
poo...](https://www.eater.com/2016/2/26/11119264/restaurants-tip-pooling-
banned-ruling-court)

~~~
Simulacra
Not always. Depends on the restaurant.

------
creepydata
Awful, absolutely terrible.

Translation:

"We will no longer pay our drivers, we will guilt you into doing it."

------
j4kp07
Wow. There are a lot of people in here that have never worked in the Services
industry or done the math for an Uber driver's take home pay after
taxes/gas/maintenance.

It's ironic how the same people who say they don't mind paying a higher price
vs tips, are choosing Uber because they are cheaper than a Lyft/Taxi.

~~~
magic_beans
I'd easily use NYC taxis if they had an app and payment system as convenient
as Uber's. I HATE having to tip, but wouldn't mind paying higher to have it
included in the price; I also abhor the taxi TV nonsense blaring in NYC cabs.

~~~
wcummings
I never used Uber when I lived in NYC, its actually more work than hailing a
cab there IMO.

------
adrianmonk
Well, there goes the only thing I thought Uber did better than Lyft.

------
dbg31415
Tipping ruins the rating system. Just flat out destroys it.

------
pm24601
If people want to tip -- use cash.

------
horsecaptin
Now that we can track driving habits, would it not make sense to put them all
on salary and set standards for employment?

~~~
manigandham
After thousands of uber tips, 100% of my drivers have said they enjoy the
freedom and ability to work when and where they want without commitment.
Employment destroys all of that and would mean many of them would lose this
income source.

If people do want to drive full-time, that job already exists. There are
numerous places to work as a commercial driver. In fact, Uber Black leverages
exactly this and is routinely serviced by companies that employee full-time
drivers.

The fact that many drivers don't choose to be full-time professional drivers
is far more telling than the tiny but whiny minority that seem to not realize
what rideshare driving is.

------
creepydata
Cute little narrative you got going there but I don't see any evidence from
the article to support it.

Since tipping is not actually "politically correct," it's racist, sexist, and
classist (1), it's a big lose for the advocates you blame.

It seemed they were under pressure from regulators, not social justice
activates. I think this is the money quote

>Conigliaro said the guild forced the introduction of tipping by putting
pressure on regulators. New York’s Taxi and Limousine Commission is weighing a
proposal that would require in-app tipping, and is expected to hear reaction
from riders and drivers at a public hearing on July 13.

They also introduced some sort of surcharge for teens as part of this change,
so you believe thats also the fault of "social justice" too?

(1)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dar...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-
you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/)

[http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...](http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1110&context=articles)

[http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-activists-
cal...](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/minimum-wage-activists-call-tipping-
racist/article/2619073)

~~~
cocktailpeanuts
I think you make great points, thank you.

Only regrettable thing is the phrase "cute little narrative" you used. The
comment would have been excellent even without pulling me down.

I think the point i was trying to make was that it's sad that Uber is making
decisions that are against user experience. They used to be able to push
through all this because users loved the product. But nowadays they've lost a
lot of power because of all the controversies. The reason Uber became popular
in the first place was because they built something that was great for the
users. If they cared about these little regulations back then, they wouldn't
be here and we would still be stuck with the shitty taxi system.

I remember when startup people used to look up to Uber as the poster child for
being ruthless just to provide great user experience. Now the narrative has
changed even though they are not doing anything different. The new narrative
is that Uber is a law breaking sexist organization, and everybody likes to
hate Uber.

If Uber still had the same reputation as back then, I don't think they would
be introducing features like this, which a lot of people will hate.

~~~
creepydata
You're the one who started with unjustly accusing a completely unrelated group
of _bullying_ , of all things; you deserve to be called out for it.

------
Simulacra
WOW! This must've taken a monumental amount of effort, thought, and
engineering. Why else did it take so long to add tipping? Bravo, Uber. Still
goes to show a massive startup can still innovate. -slow clap-

------
CiPHPerCoder
I've already been tipping Uber/Lyft drivers in cash since I first used either
service.

I'm not sure how I feel about Uber being able to collect data on tip
collection.

------
avdempsey
I'll break-down tipping for the neophytes.

Yes, by George Orwell's account, tipping was considered repugnant by no less
than the anarchist defenders of Catalonia in the Spanish Civil War. But you
feel bad not tipping when expected and you want to know what to do.

1\. Tip your bartender at least $1/drink. Maybe tip $3 if you got two drinks.
Maybe $2 for one of it's something fancy. 2\. In SF, tip your waiter 20% for
good service, 15% for adequate service. 3\. Tip at least $5 for delivery. If a
bartender gets $1 for handing you a beer, the delivery person deserves $5 for
driving to your home and bailing you out of cooking. 4\. Tip $2 for an
adequate Lyft/Uber. $1 if you feel pinched.

When to tip more? Like being in love, you'll just know.

~~~
avdempsey
Trying to decide if you should talk to your driver? Let them take the lead. If
they launch into talking, and you feel like talking too, go for it! If they're
quiet, let them work. Worried they're only talking to you for the money? Try
to find out what their interests are and engage them. None of this should
impact your tipping decision.

------
losteverything
Tipping helps people who need it.

It is simple. Voluntary. Binary.

A $1 or $2 tip may not seem like much, but if it gets saved (which often tip
receivers do) it adds up. Like found money.

Do uber drivers make a lot? Could $1 $2 $3 help them?

It is not about guilt. It's not about service quality. It is not about greater
things. It is about helping someone who most likely needs it.

You could get on a high horse and make grandiose statements - all for a few
dollars!!

Tip receivers know the types that never tip. And types that tip big. And types
that cant afford to tip.

Dont over think Tipping.

I never wish anyone financial hardship but if you ever experience it you will
know how greatful a small or large tip helps.

~~~
snowwrestler
I wish this comment was higher.

I think it's a bummer to see developers who make way over the national median
income complain they "don't want to think" about maybe giving a couple extra
bucks to people who could use it.

~~~
askafriend
It's not about a few extra bucks, that's not the big issue with tipping. I
would be completely fine if a service costed 30%-50% more if that meant the
employees would get paid a decent wage.

The onus should be on the employers -- not on the employees and the customer
to figure it out.

I hate tipping. The whole experience of it just sucks in every way. It doesn't
bring joy to anyone. Both parties lose. The service provider constantly has to
worry about tips and have no consistency in income. If they were paid a normal
livable wage, then they wouldn't have to worry about this. For the customer,
the whole process of purchasing a product is made more painful and more
complicated - unnecessarily.

~~~
snowwrestler
It's literally tapping one extra button in the app UI. I'm really surprised at
how hard this seems to people.

~~~
ck425
How do I know what to tip? How do I estimate before getting an uber how much
it's going to cost? Tipping is the worst part of visiting the US. You go to
restaurant and the menu for your meal says $x, but it's not $x, it's $x plus
taxes plus tips. As a consumer I just want to know up front how much something
is going to cost. No other country in the world makes this as ridiculously
hard. And if you screw it up your "cheapskate".

~~~
snowwrestler
This thread is full of people who work in technology, who think of themselves
as smart capable people, complaining bitterly about choosing between 15%, 20%,
or 25% in an app.

Just tap the middle option. You can't go wrong, and your driver will have a
slightly better life than otherwise.

~~~
askafriend
Why not just increase prices by 30% and pay the driver more? That was it’s a
better exper for everyone involved.

------
adjkant
I find it quite ironic that the majority of comments here seem to be against
this addition and switching more people to Lyft who haven't already switched
for moral reasons. By trying to become a better company and treat drivers
better, they scared off the customers who didn't care about that. I'm sure
this will get downvoted because I'm implying that people already should have
switched for moral reasons, and a lot of people don't care apparently, even
when many here can financially afford to pay more.

All of these anti-tipping comments clearly have not used Lyft. The Lyft
culture versus Uber's from a passenger perspective is so much better. No, you
don't have forced conversations like people here think will happen. People
forget that Lyft was originally pushing being the more authentic company from
the start. In my experience, the drivers respect this too, and almost every
driver I've talked to prefers Lyft riders (even when I'm taking an Uber due to
Lyft unavailability).

The tipping option means I can pay my driver more if he helps me unload a
bunch of luggage/boxes (I've had to take an Uber to a storage facility years
ago and had to use a 3rd party credit swipe app to tip my driver for all the
extra work) or some other scenario. There's no tipping mention in Lyft rides,
while I've seen it often in Uber rides. It's there for when you need it, and
isn't something I really consider much. Is 1 second of thinking really too
much? Efficiency isn't that important people.

I agree that tipping ambiguity is a pain sometimes. The remedy is taking the
3-5 min to learn the culture for common tipping scenarios. If you spend that
time, the answer is pretty clear here. The feature comes in handy far more
than it causes pain, speaking from the epxerience of myself and others.

~~~
wutbrodo
> By trying to become a better company and treat drivers better

If you actually read the complaints here, the vast majority are against the
manner of the pay increase, not the increase itself. If you're going to
pretend that complaints against this are complaints against drivers' benefit,
you need a reason that an across-the-board, no-Uber-commission pay rise
wouldn't have done the same thing without making the product shittier.

~~~
adjkant
I did read the complaints here, and many seem to be missing the point of why
they added this. I don't think it was to increase driver pay directly, but to
add a feature that Lyft has that many enjoyed. That and probably a perception
of treating drivers better for PR reasons. Obviously they could also pay them
better, but this is a positive step.

A better tipping system is better than nothing at all. A drop in the bucket
far too late, but as a Lyft user, I find the tipping system to be better on
both sides.

Furthermore, a lot of comments are just against tipping in general, and a
worse experience on both sides with tipping in this case. My post is arguing
against that notion from experience.

