

The Irish Post Office Has a Plan To Tell One Murphy From Another - coloneltcb
http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-irish-post-office-has-a-plan-1411777137

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Someone1234
Two quick things:

I want to first off say that while on paper US Zip codes are more precise than
UK Post Codes, the reality is often very different. The majority of people
write their zip code without the "+4" which only gives you a city block, or
roughly the same precision as a UK Post Code.

Secondly, I feel like Ireland missed an opportunity here. If they are only
adding zip codes now then, yes, going with a US-style system (with the +4) is
the correct decision. However why not invent a "person delivery code" rather
than a "location delivery code" system?

I know, I know, crazy. But imagine this: Each address is assigned a unique
code (e.g. starting with 0-9) and each person is also assigned a unique code
(e.g. starting with A-Z) which is this mapped to a address when a letter is
routed.

When someone moves house they give the post man a card, which says "Bob Smith
(A123456) has moved from 87654 to 838449, please forward my mail indefinitely
to that address."

That way when you move house your mail automatically follows you.

PS - I am suggesting that the "people codes" be an add on, so traditional
"send to address" mail methods would work (e.g. sending "remember to vote" to
every house on a street, rather than every individual would still work).

PPS - Calculating shipping would be no harder than today, just select your
city and enter your "person code" or zip-code/house number.

~~~
javaru
I had the same thought, but then what about people who have more than one
house? Where would you bring the mail for a homeless person? Do they even get
a number? What about mailing to a business vs. a person at that business?

~~~
ceejayoz
No reason businesses couldn't receive a code when they incorporate, and you'd
presumably allow homeless people to set their location as their local post
office for pickup (just like they have to do currently, I'd imagine).

~~~
dalke
Many businesses have multiple offices, each of which might receive deliveries.

~~~
ceejayoz
Gee, then maybe they could apply for more than one. This is hardly an
insurmountable issue.

~~~
dalke
The problems with the existing system are not insurmountable either.

This proposal, which isn't going to replace the geographical based system,
ends up greatly increasing the number of issues, for seemingly little gain.
Each objection, and proposed solution, is an example of why there are issues.

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dfc
Can anyone from Ireland comment on "ambulances having trouble finding the
right house"? This seems to be the most compelling and succinct argument
against the staus quo.

Addendum: I got throttled but I wanted to comment on the "everyone has an
iPhone with GPS" idea.

I think "we" need to step out of the tech bubble for a little bit. The GPS
alternative assumes that everyone has a cell phone. This is problematic as it
is but it also assumes that the cell phone will never damaged in the
emergency, always charged, it is not on the second floor of your house that is
on fire, never travels within urban canyons or inside buildings that interfere
with signal reception, uses an address format that everyone is familiar with
and is easy to read/speak unambiguously, etc.

~~~
leoc
Confirmed. I have stood at the side of the road to flag down an ambulance for
a critically ill person. That has at least as much to do with unmarked
entrances on semi-rural roads as the lack of a postcode, though.

~~~
fennecfoxen
With all due respect to the proposed postal code system, in the modern era of
cheap, remarkably accurate GPS devices, couldn't you just send a service like
an ambulance your latitude and longitude?

~~~
CanSpice
Quick! Your partner has just keeled over and isn't breathing! Give me your
latitude and longitude!

Your phone probably knows what your lat/long are, but can you quickly look it
up in a high-pressure situation? Probably not. And emergency call systems such
as 911 don't get that information either. Maybe they will in ten or twenty
years, but they don't now.

~~~
BorgHunter
E911 in the U.S. does include lat/lon when it comes from a cell phone,
accurate to within 50-300 meters. It's part of the FCC guidelines, phase II,
which went into effect at the end of 2005.
[https://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-911-services](https://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-911-services)

~~~
JshWright
That is surprisingly less useful than you might think... There can be a _lot_
of residences in a 300 meter circle.

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leoc
Oh, the time I spend standing at the side of the road, flagging down Amazon
deliveries and tradesmen. And Safari Books Online doesn't want my money
because their CC validators won't accept an address without a postcode.

~~~
dave84
I'm not sure if you're serious about Safari Book Online, but they happily take
my money each month. Zip code: 00000.

~~~
leoc
That's good to know; they consistently refused to accept NO CODE.

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donalm
Here's the site for the new system -
[http://www.eircode.ie/](http://www.eircode.ie/)

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brianbreslin
How will people selling to ireland have to update their web forms? lots of US-
centric sites have Zipcode as a number or 7 digit serial. How do irish people
fill them out now? I'm really curious.

When I drove around ireland in 2009, I used a trusty paper map + the car had a
GPS which sort of worked.

~~~
dave84
Usually 00000,XXXXX or 90210.

~~~
aestra
Haha! 90210 is my default fake zip code. I worked at a retail store one summer
in college and they started making us put the customer's zip code in before
ringing them up. At first I asked them but often time they'd get all annoyed
or mad "Why do you need that?" I got sick of it so instead I just decided to
enter 90210 for all my orders (on the east coast mind you). Or sometimes to
change it up a bit I used Scruff McGruff's zip code of 60652[1]. Hey, it was
catchy!

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XxnSHig0wc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XxnSHig0wc)

~~~
JshWright
I like 12345 (it's more convincing if you know how to spell _and_ pronounce
Schenectady, NY)

~~~
aestra
Zip code 12345 is only used by General Electric though. :(

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chiph
How is it structured? In the US, zip codes starting with 0 are in the
northeast, and those starting with 9 (like the famous 90210) are in the
southwest.

The article mentions Dublin having codes starting with D1..D24. Will addresses
near Limerick start with L?

~~~
SlashmanX
Well Dublin is structured so that the even numbers are south of the Liffey and
odd numbers are north.

The proposed system is tremendously confusing though and I've no idea of the
structure behind it (there is one though):

[http://eircode.ie/what-is-eircode](http://eircode.ie/what-is-eircode)

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HeXetic
If they're assigning each domicile its own effective GUID as a post code, this
should certainly make delivery unambiguous, but the headache of filling in
online order forms would remain, as rural houses would still have no street
names nor addresses.

~~~
zaroth
Please enter your shipping information: A65 F4E2

Not very charming or easy to remember, but that sounds pretty convenient as
far as filling out the form goes.

Kind of like sending mail to your license plate.

~~~
wanderingstan
A minor point, but I've hated how postal addresses are always broken up into
many fields. It'd be wonderful to be able to copy-n-paste a postal address as
easy as an email or, as you said, license plate.

(I'm surprised that Google or Apple hasn't come up with an auto-parser for
pasting in a contact's postal address and have it automatically segmented into
street, city, zip.)

~~~
epochwolf
That's because you can mail a letter with just a name and a zipcode if your
name is unique enough. The city, state, and a description of the location also
works.

There is some standardization of addresses but even those formats can be
troublesome.

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s_kilk
It's great to see this finally happening.

I grew up in Ireland and always found the lack of postcodes to be puzzling,
with the address of a house often being no more specific than "go back the
road there about two mile and hang left".

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adaml_623
The most important thing about this system ( I guess after the question of
whether it succeeds or not ) is whether or not the information is freely
available or whether the public get screwed like with the UK post codes?

~~~
adaml_623
Sorry I've answered that for myself. And the answer is....

The government is supporting a new closed monopoly service! Congratulations
"Capita Business Support Services Ireland".

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dave84
The main thing I want to see is this integrated into GPS systems and Google
Maps, but I'm sure that An Post will charge for access to the database.

~~~
leoc
Signs are on it: [http://www.eircode.ie/business/become-a-
provider](http://www.eircode.ie/business/become-a-provider) . With enough
public support it should be possible to undermine this, though. You could
either ask people to submit their EirCodes to OpenStreetMap (and perhaps send
them confirmation codes by post), or try to get them to write their 10:10 code
[http://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/1010-code.html](http://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/1010-code.html)
(or something similar) as their postcode instead.

~~~
duibhneach
Unfortunately "An Post" have had a GPS location for every address in Ireland
for the last 15 years and have happily been charging businesses for this.
Called "GeoDirectory" I think. Pressure hasn't made it free yet.

~~~
leoc
That's why I'm suggesting that an end-run may do better than direct political
pressure. I'm not making any promises of success of course.

