
The Workman keyboard layout (2010) - cmyr
http://www.workmanlayout.com/blog/
======
markbnj
I love to see attempts at new keyboard layouts because they are at the same
time wonderfully optimistic and utterly hopeless. Good post for a Friday.

~~~
voidz
Have you ever tried an alternative layout, like Dvorak?

I wrote about Dvorak a while ago on HN:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8705543](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8705543)

Calling it hopeless, well, our opinions differ, that's for sure!

~~~
sswezey
I used the Colemak layout for a little over a year and eventually switched
back to QWERTY. I had the same problem that many other people had with
alternate keyboards - it's great if only you use only your own computer(s).
Whenever you have someone else use your keyboard or you use theirs, you have
to remember to switch physically (for them) or mentally (for you). You can
argue for maintaining both layout proficiency, but what's the point of an
alternate layout if you have to continue to practice the old one. I also never
really had a health problem typing in QWERTY and Colemak didn't solve that
(non-existing) problem.

Also, so many things are built with QWERTY in mind. Games default to WASD and
some don't even have the option to switch. Shortcuts are created with QWERTY
and are sometimes awkward to change (vim) to match the design goals of the
shortcuts.

All in all, it was a fun experiment. But seeing as I don't have any RSI/other
hand reasons to switch, it's not worth the extra effort to use.

~~~
spain
> so many things are built with QWERTY in mind

I found this to be the biggest issue with using Colemak or any other
alternative layout. I use my own computers exclusively so I had complete
control over using my layout, but it just got so tedious having to rebind
everything all the time and I would often run into games and programs where
you _couldn 't_ rebind keys at all. Trying to rebind keys to work in a sane
way in Emacs was an uphill battle that never ended.

~~~
dorgo
Why not just buy a keyboard with a layout switch button. No program will force
you to use qwerty if your keyboard manages layouts. But seems like no such a
keyboard is out there. Couldnt find it on Google or Amazon.

~~~
srgpqt
The TypeMatrix has such a button (Dvorak Key). It remaps the keys at the
hardware level. It's accessed with Fn+F1 and has a LED indicator on the left
side.

[http://typematrix.com/2030/features.php](http://typematrix.com/2030/features.php)

------
kasey_junk
I wish one of the tests was the doom codebase.

------
0942v8653
Every time I see one of these alternative keyboard layouts it almost scares me
into switching—look at the QWERTY stats for all books, they're horrendous. I
always decide against it because it seems like one of those things that's hard
to unlearn. This one does seem to be an improvement, but I don't think I could
ever switch. The most I've really switched around my keyboard layout is
movekey[0]; it's much more useful than switching layouts (in my opinion,
anyway) because the arrow keys are what slow me down the most.

[0]:
[https://github.com/0942v8653/movekey](https://github.com/0942v8653/movekey)

~~~
voidz
You don't forget the old layout when you learn a new one. This has been widely
misunderstood.

In fact, it's more like learning yourself to write with your other hand. Say,
you try this with your left hand -- you don't forget how to write with your
right hand -- you can do both, but after a while you'll realise you got better
with your left hand than your right!

~~~
Chattered
I switched from QWERTY to Dvorak over ten years ago, and I am crippled going
back to QWERTY. I apologise routinely to students and colleagues whilst using
their keyboards, explaining that I'm no longer used to the QWERTY layout.

~~~
voidz
Hey, I didn't say you should stop typing in QWERTY! Wink. My point is that
people who want to learn it won't replace their QWERTY skills -- They'll just
learn another one. A brand new superpower.

------
mankyd
Why make caps lock into backspace? Control has always felt a much more natural
option to me.

Usually, when I am pressing backspace, I am taking a mental break anyways
(even if only a tiny one), so I am ok with having a bit of travel to press it.

~~~
voidz
First thing I do on a linux machine:

setxkbmap -layout us -variant dvorak -option ctrl:swapcaps,compose:rctrl

(You can leave -variant dvorak out; the -option stuff will still work.)

The compose key, used to compose all kinds of characters from æ to ż, is one
of those smart and fantastic options, and it works really intuitive. Just hit
that key, then guess two characters (like a and e, or z and .) and voila.

It's also pretty neat that it supports stuff like ™ and ©.

Yeah, the other setting switches ctrl and capslock. My left pinky just really
doesn't like the original place of ctrl, and caps is something I use only
rarely.

~~~
mankyd
Indeed. I set caps to ctrl. I don't even bother swapping them. I've simply
eliminated caps all together. I so rarely type in all caps that I simply suck
it up and hold shift when I need to.

The only time it really comes up is if I'm typing out constants in code. Yet,
I have to type each only once and then autocomplete deals with it from there
on out.

------
nwah1
I'm a colemak user. Out of all the changes that colemak provides, the best is
the optional replacement of capslock with backspace.

I do like that all of your fingers are used on the home row, but ultimately
all the other changes are much less important than the backspace thing.

If you're on the fence about changing your keyboard layout, just make that one
change.

Capslock takes up very valuable keyboard real estate but is essentially
unused. I move my hands much less because of that change. It also seems more
logical.

If you're a vim user that uses it as an escape key, well... at least you
already kinda understand the uselessness of capslock.

~~~
dllthomas
I use capslock as my Compose key.

------
melling
This article is from 2010. Xah Lee has a comparison of different layouts:

[http://xahlee.info/kbd/dvorak_and_all_keyboard_layouts.html](http://xahlee.info/kbd/dvorak_and_all_keyboard_layouts.html)

I keep a bunch of .org file notes for keyboards, etc. I don' t have much on
alternate keyboards:
[http://thespanishsite.com/org/ergo/keyboards.html](http://thespanishsite.com/org/ergo/keyboards.html)

So, I'd love to hear other people's experiences.

~~~
0942v8653
I just got a mechanical keyboard (Cherry MX Blues) and I have to say, the
actuation force is much, much lighter, and it definitely is taking some
getting used to. Right now I'm trying not to bottom out as I type and it's
actually really hard. Just as a warning before anyone goes out and buys a
mechanical keyboard. It can get expensive too—I bought mine from Max Keyboards
on their Black Friday sale.

~~~
voidz
Ha - Coolermaster brought out a CM Storm with Cherry MX Green keys. They're
like blue, but the springs are thicker, requiring more force. I found it on
Amazon.

I'm crazy about that keyboard, love it very much. Usually I switch between
that one, and my TypeMatrix 2030 USB. Cause they're both so nice. :-)

------
song
I use colemak and I love it but I do agree with him about the he bigram in
colemak. At this point though, I don't think his improvements would make it
worthwhile for me to learn Workman.

Switching to Colemak was very good for me but it also was a big time
investment since the loss of productivity when learning a new keyboard layout
is not negligible. I had wrist problems which stopped after switching to
Colemak so I really had an extra incentive to slog through the tranaition.

------
programminggeek
I did a lot of work once to learn Colemak and I got pretty good. It is not a
bad way to type at all, but it fails pretty hard once you switch betweeen
machines.

A better optimization is getting a great ergonomic keyboard, like the the
Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop keyboard. It's really fantastic and can be
had for like $70 if you shop around.

~~~
to3m
I bought one of those. I quite like the feel (except for the F keys, and Esc,
which are a bit nasty - still, unlike some keyboards, at least it has them)
but for my money the layout wasn't quite right. As always with chiclet
keyboards, there's a gap between keys. But the keys are about the same size as
an ordinary keyboard - e.g., my MS Natural 4000 - and so the distance to the
Return key is much greater than normal.

For US users, with the fat 1-row Return key, this probably isn't too much of a
bother, but I found it rather uncomfortable with the European-style inverted-L
Return key. The Left Shift key is also a bit on the small side. I'd definitely
advise a test drive before purchase.

(Shame, because the chiclet keys are pretty nice, it feels nice and solid, and
it's nice to have a removable number pad.)

------
jliptzin
"[Dvorak] was created in the 1930’s and promised to be vastly superior to
QWERTY. I went ahead and tried it out and soon enough after doing “ls -latr”
on the terminal, I had to shake my head and sadly walk away from it."

Because, obviously, Dvorak was optimized in 1930 for typing things like ls
-ltar on a typewriter.

~~~
voidz
Heh, yeah, that's a silly argument. But in that case I'm very glad for him
that linux doesn't have a command called "hypolimnion"! Just type it in to see
what I mean.

(Heh. I just realised that I never even bothered to change the 'hjkl' keys, in
vim, as navigation keys, on the dvorak layout. It took about no time at all to
get it into my system. I just stopped thinking about it.)

------
jph
Norman layout ([https://normanlayout.info](https://normanlayout.info) ) is
similar to Workman.

In my experience Norman is a bit faster and easier because Norman preserves
C/Copy and V/Paste shortcut keys in the same positions.

------
gear54rus
Does something like this have even a slightest chance to kick in (mainstream)?

Computers are now used everywhere: defense, business, entertainment, you name
it. I don't think anyone's gonna bother changing the layout everywhere.

~~~
anon4
If you need to do a lot of typing you can ask your employer for a better
keyboard, or buy one yourself. High-end mechanical keyboards allow you to
reprogram their firmware and rearrange their keys, so you'll get a new layout
without any involvement of the OS and, if you buy the keyboard for yourself,
you'll be able to carry it with you whenever you move.

~~~
mcguire
This is the greatest disappointment of the new crop of Cherry-based keyboards:
you can't physically rearrange the keycaps because they're shaped differently
for the different rows.

The good, old IBM Model M keyboards made switching the keycaps to your
preferred layout trivial.

------
dangerlibrary
Why would you just barely move the "D"?

If you want to encourage adoption, why would you move a commonly used letter
less than an inch from it's original position?

------
valarauca1
I like how the units are presented in meters and centimeters not percentage
improvement. 65,000cm sounds like a HUGE deal, but it was only ~2.29%
improvement.

------
angkec
Any one has any experience using an alternative keyboard layout in a qwerty
world? How does it fit?

~~~
lumpypua
I've typed in dvorak day to day since about 2004. I type in querty on my phone
without any issues—the devices are different enough that my nervous system
doesn't get confused.

On library computers and such I'm reduced to hunt and peck. It's really hard
to switch between dvorak and querty and type both well. I like dvorak enough
that it's worth not being able to type full speed on random computers.

~~~
lewaldman
This is true for me as well.

On my phone everything goes well, but on other computers or on my iPad's Zagg
keyboard... It's a mess.

------
pfortuny
I guess symbols should not need shift in any case for a programmer. Like {} []
<> #%^ etc

------
pherocity_
Not a vim user I see.

~~~
lincolnq
I use vim with alternate layouts. The only keys that don't make sense are
hjkl, but I never really learned those ones anyway -- to get around the file,
I use search, 'w' and 'b', 'A' and 'I' mostly, and only occasionally do I use
the arrow keys.

~~~
alxndr
I actually like hjkl in Dvorak: my left pointer and middle finger handle
up/down, and my right pointer and ring finger handle left/right.

------
geophile
A possible solution to what is not even a first world problem.

~~~
nkantar
The numerous people with all sorts of typing-related issues may disagree...

