

Caffeine Spray, Brought to You by Peter Thiel’s College Dropout Challenge - mysterywhiteboy
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-21/caffeine-spray-brought-to-you-by-peter-thiel-s-college-dropout-challenge#r=hp-ls

======
Someone
Homeopathic, indeed.
[http://www.unboundmedicine.com/harrietlane/ub/citation/15135...](http://www.unboundmedicine.com/harrietlane/ub/citation/15135208/In_vitro_predictions_of_skin_absorption_of_caffeine_testosterone_and_benzoic_acid:_a_multi_centre_comparison_study_)
states about 2 microgram/cm^2/h absorption of caffeine.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine)
gives about 100 milligram per cup of coffee.

Assuming 100 cm^2 exposure area, you would need a milligram per cm^2 for a
"cup of coffee equivalent". That's 500 hours ("three weeks")

And that is assuming that this spray is equivalent to whatever van de Sandt er
al used to get caffeine on the skin (I would guess they applied way more than
a spray would apply)

On the other hand, high pressure spraying (better called jet injection; see
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_injector](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_injector))
might work. I think that would require FDA approval, though.

~~~
dvmmh
Everyone that buys this is going to spray it in their mouths. This has nothing
to do with skin absorption and everything to do with getting around the FDA.

~~~
jotm
the taste is pretty bad and lingers for a while - why not just get pills?

~~~
revelation
You can also just buy pure caffeine powder and mix it with your favorite
drink, or buy capsules seperately and make your own pills. Probably much more
cost-effective.

And yes, from personal experience, I can attest to the fact that pure caffeine
has an extremely bitter taste.

(Which begs the question, does it taste bitter because it is after all a
neurotoxin and we have evolved to find those lacking in taste?)

------
desigooner
For me, it's really easy to dismiss the product as snakeoil when I hear
something like Homeopathic energy being used to promote the product.

~~~
300bps
_He calls it “homeopathic energy” and says they’ve invested around $50,000 in
it so far._

Maybe it's time he gives back the $100,000 and enrolls back in college. For
anyone unfamiliar why it's such a red flag that someone voluntarily associates
themselves with homepathy:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy)

 _Homeopathy is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel
Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of similia similibus curentur ( "like cures
like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease
in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people. It is widely
considered a pseudoscience._

 _The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in
alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body,
called succussion.[7] Each dilution followed by succussion is said to increase
the remedy 's potency. Dilution usually continues well past the point where
none of the original substance remains._

Basically, if you have a cold:

1\. Start with a poison that causes cold symptoms

2\. Dilute it with water

3\. Repeat diluting it with water until the most sensitive scientific
instruments can no longer detect the original substance

4\. The water then has an "imprint" or "spirit" of the original substance
which will cure the cold

~~~
cma
He's a businessman, not the head of a charity. In 2007, the homeopathic
industry did $3.7 billion in sales. It is probably higher now.

On the other hand, if this thing works, it surely does so by placebo, but due
to the harmful effects of actual caffeine usage, placebo might actually be a
major benefit to the consumer.

~~~
mead5432
$3.7 billion in sales is not a lot when you are talking about an industry or
market.

Now if you spread the $3.7 billion over the different product options, one
option alone is probably not going to bring in a whole bunch of revenue.
Afterall, it isn't $3.7 billion for Caffeine sprays only...

If you give them 1/1000 of the total market, that is only $3.7 million in
revenue for a company. That isn't what most would consider high potential.

------
inspector-g
_[His] father, who has a Ph.D. in bioorganic chemistry and owns his own lab in
China, helped develop it._

I love the irony. Peter Thiel was trying to make a point with his "College
Dropout Challenge", but this product was really developed by someone with a
graduate-level education.

~~~
mikeyouse
It's an inspiring message though;

    
    
        Anyone can drop out of school, find a partner,
        and start a business. 
    

I suppose with context it reads a bit differently though;

    
    
        Anyone can drop out of Harvard, take a expedition to
        Antarctica, meet a venture capitalist on the boat,
        and use your dad's PhD-level chemistry knowledge and
        infrastructure to start a business selling snake oil to
        gullible people.

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rthomas6
>The big idea is to make caffeine palatable to people who get the jitters from
coffee and energy drinks. Four sprays, the recommended dose, has less caffeine
than a cup of coffee, Yu says.

I guess they've never heard of tea?

~~~
JonSkeptic
Tea isn't everyone's cup of .... nevermind

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mtinkerhess
It sounds like the main benefits from the spray as opposed to coffee / tea
are: 1) Cost 2) Convenience.

The spray will cost about $0.38 per dose.

The competition isn't coffee or tea but caffeine pills, which are cheaper and
about as convenient. It looks like you can get 120 100 mg pills on Amazon for
$5, or $0.04 per dose. I don't see the benefit of a spray as opposed to pills.

~~~
300bps
_It looks like you can get 120 100 mg pills on Amazon for $5, or $0.04 per
dose. I don 't see the benefit of a spray as opposed to pills._

You have a good point, but 100 mg is a good dose of caffeine for people that
are sensitive to it. They would find themselves cutting the pills down for
lesser doses. The 100 mg caffeine pills I bought on Amazon are very tiny and
would be very difficult to cut without a specialized device.

~~~
mikeyouse
The specialized device for cutting pills costs about $3 and is available at
every single pharmacy on earth. They are generally designed to be used by the
elderly and infirm.

~~~
300bps
How small of a pill can they accurately cut? The caffeine pills I got off
Amazon are about the size of 2 pinheads and are kind of soft. I don't think
they would be easy but I've never used a pill cutter.

~~~
mikeyouse
Some of them are designed for such small pills, those might run a few more
dollars. I worked in an inpatient pharmacy for awhile and we regularly cut
tiny pills.

They are fairly ingenious for how simple they are, basically you put the pill
in a V-shaped compartment so it would settle down to the base of the V. Flip
the lid over and a razor blade would apply even pressure and split any size
pill perfectly in half.

Some were more amenable than others to the splitting, while some would explode
into a chalky mess, but I think that had more to do with the filler than the
ingredients, which gives the opportunity to shop around.

------
JacksonGariety
> "The world's toughest problems aren't going to solve themselves!"

What problem does this solve? Sleep deprivation for people who don't drink
soda, tea or coffee?

~~~
karnajani
Seriously. All I could think is,this is one of the world's toughest problems?

I get the spirit behind the idea of giving kids money to tinker, but this
creates what's equivalent to a programmer who has only learned from
stackoverflow and w3schools. There is a lot missing that's still part of the
standard college curriculum, and the worlds problems will most likely need
just as much theory as practical understanding.

~~~
JacksonGariety
Maybe this isn't because the kids were given freedom from school.

Maybe it's because the person funding them came from Stanford.

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swamp40
This is sure to be successful. The Indiegogo campaign _already_ went over its
limit, with 41 days left to go. Kudo's to young Ben Yu.

I can't help but be reminded of the Caffeine Patch scene from _Meet the
Robinsons_ , though.

 _Mr. Willerstein: Dr. Krunklehorn, I know you 're very busy at Inventco Labs.
And we're just so happy to have you as a judge.

Lucille Krunklehorn: It's my pleasure, Mr. Willerstein. Hey, you never know,
one of your students may invent the next integrated circuit, or
microprocessor, or integrated circuit. Oh wait, I said that already. Well, I
just don't get out of the lab very much. Is that a bowtie? I like bowties. I
haven't slept in eight days!

Mr. Willerstein: Uh, well then, can I get you a cot or something?

Lucille Krunklehorn: Nope, I have the caffeine patch. It's my invention. Each
patch is the equivalent of 12 cups of coffee. You can stay up for days with no
side effects. AHHH!!! Sorry._

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR4DzHo5hz8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR4DzHo5hz8)

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sp332
This is interesting because it's an end-run around the FDA's current
regulations on caffeine intake. Reminds me of when Five-hour Energy claimed
they weren't an energy drink but an energy "shot" and shouldn't be held to the
same regulations.

~~~
alanctgardner2
It's completely uninteresting because it's an end-run around the FDA's
regulations on caffeine. Let's just brainstorm all the ways to ingest
caffeine, eliminate the ones the FDA has explicit regulatory power over, then
target what remains. Unsurprisingly, the FDA will start to take notice if
you're obviously trying to sidestep them, and then they'll legislate you out
of existence.

Frankly this is really disappointing to me, it seems like Thiel is supporting
people who support his libertarian views more than actual visionaries. There
are lots of people who would be well served by this program, and this guy
doesn't really fit the bill in my opinion. It may as well be the 'Peter Thiel
drop out of school to create trouble for regulatory agencies I don't agree
with' scholarship.

~~~
swamp40
I don't agree with your opinion, but I love your last line.

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matmann2001
This seems like a waste of potential. The kid needs to go back to college and
make something great.

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aray
The "How it Works" page looks very clip-art-y to me:
[http://sprayable.co/pages/how-it-works/](http://sprayable.co/pages/how-it-
works/)

Reinforces the homeopathic points I suppose.

