
Total.js Messenger – A small alternative to Slack - michaltakac
https://www.totaljs.com/messenger
======
kr0
I already spot an inconsistency on the first image

Some posts say Members / Developers like a full path, but the likes just say
"Developers" with a link

------
petersirka
Total.js is free now: [https://github.com/totaljs/premium-
messenger](https://github.com/totaljs/premium-messenger)

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Etheryte
Why did you change the title to such a weird one? The page makes no claims of
"killing Slack" or anything similar.

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anc84
What benefits does this have compared to using matrix.org rooms?

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alnitak
Many comments here seem to miss the point. This is a sort of a template for a
full-blown app based on their framework to speed up development amd illustrate
using Total.js, more than a competitor to Slack, or even a "product". They
seem to have other templates such as a CMS.

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maxwin
It needs to have mobile app for teams to take it seriously

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mtrycz
I remember using Totaljs (the framework) for a pet project a couple of years
ago when I was willing to check out the nodejs hype for myself. Websocket
support was nice.

I should have probably gone for something more "traditional" like Express (to
learn proper node), but I have to say that coming from Java/Spring, I felt
quite at home with it. Also, learnt a lot about callback hell.

Nice to see they went on with the project and built some stuff on it. Open
source looks like the way to go for them, which is a good thing for everyone.

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holtalanm
"An alternative to Slack"??

More like "Slack Clone that pretends to be open source, but requires you to
pay to see the source code"

~~~
davidcollantes
It is free: [https://github.com/totaljs/premium-
messenger](https://github.com/totaljs/premium-messenger)

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guiomie
Im trying to add messaging to a platform I'm building with a friend, this
looks like a good potential fit. Im currently using Twilio IP Messaging, but
the fact I need to implement the UI and doesn't supports attachements/pictures
is aslo not great. Anyone has tried other good alternatives? One of our main
requirement is that we keep control of who can be added to a contact list
based on a transaction.

------
shaqbert
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to
greatness.” --Oscar Wilde

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throwasehasdwi
Open source slack clone is more accurate, but still cool. Might take a little
wind out of their billion dollar sails :)

~~~
tajen
I disagree with all the hope of a naive programmer: It's _awesome_ that
closed-source UIs get replicated as open-source and become a commodity.

Paid software is great, I don't mind that, but software that you don't own
doesn't become legacy. Infrastructures like Linux, Eclipse, Nginx, Java will
be legacy, SublimeText and .Net won't.

~~~
_JamesA_
Legacy in the context of software is generally used to refer to something
obsolete, outdated or abandoned.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_system)

------
vinceguidry
What's the business model here? Can they really build a sustainable business
from 70-150€/month enterprise support? Are these guys funded?

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DorothySim
Looks very good and I like that they have a screenshot right on the home page.
I wish there was an anonymous instance to try it out without the tedious login
process...

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Taig
I kinda like the idea of pre-filling the email input fields with "@" and have
never seen that before. It's pretty easy to remove or type my login address
around your provided @ (which a recurring visitor rarely does, as you stay
logged in). But every once in a while I find myself in a foreign environment /
keyboard layout / device having no idea how to type that character.

~~~
bluedino
I don't find this advantageous at all. Easy to start typing after the @
symbol, then you have to go back and fix it, just seems to waste time.

~~~
orthecreedence
Agreed, a placeholder="your@email.com" works just fine.

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penpapersw
I'm afraid that at this point Slack has too strong a network effect to be
replaced with something better except in niche circles.

~~~
brudgers
A few years ago, I might have said something similar about MySpace or Usenet
or GeoCities.

~~~
pishpash
The difference is no companies were using MySpace, Usenet or GeoCities
internally. Companies are using Slack. It's easy to switch when it's just
chatter among unassociated individuals.

~~~
brudgers
That's a good point about Slack being B2B. Thinking about B2B lockin, Slack
has lockin to the degree that businesses are heavily invested in its unique
features rather than just benefiting from improved communication.

Maybe fax machines make a better technical comparison. Email replaced their
intra-company use in a few years. What kept them in use is that they are
customer facing. Similarly, Skype and such replaced copper telephone lines for
internal conference calls and in many businesses cell phones replaced
landlines for intracompany communication and the phone system exists because
it is customer facing.

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anonaut
Can't view the source code without registering? No thanks. Wanted to check if
this supports web-hooks, doesn't look like it does.

~~~
petermcnister25
Not only that, you also have to pay to see the source code even after
registering (which is okay with the OSS licenses). Any paying customer cares
to clone it to github and show us? Since it's MIT licensed there should be no
problem.

------
bluedino
So, would using something like this eliminate most of the issues of 'not using
Slack for FOSS'?

 _is closed source_

 _has only one client_

 _is a walled garden_

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halestock
From the installation instructions on the github readme:

>Premium Messenger (v2.0.0) needs latest Total.js from NPM +v2.5.0

What does this mean exactly?

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ajross
The problem with trying to clone slack isn't slack, it's that for anyone to
care about using it, it had to be better than IRC. Even slack hasn't beaten
IRC.

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raesene6
hmm, one of quite a few slack-a-likes out there.

One thing I wasn't too fond of in this case is that the Download: Source-code
link on that page which has a github logo on it, doesn't actually go to a
github page if you click it, it goes to a login/sign-up page for Total.JS and
looking at the Total.JS github repo. page, this messenger app. doesn't appear
to be there
[https://github.com/totaljs?tab=repositories](https://github.com/totaljs?tab=repositories)

~~~
edu
There're a couple of links in the top bar and down in the page to
[https://github.com/totaljs/framework](https://github.com/totaljs/framework)

~~~
egeozcan
The messenger itself seems to be an (allegedly) open-source product that is
only available to "premium members". Nowhere could I see a license nor source.

[http://i.imgur.com/tUteVRV.png](http://i.imgur.com/tUteVRV.png)

Price seems to be low enough not to matter but I'm not paying if it's not
MIT/GPL or any other O.S. license (I'm not saying it isn't, I just can't find
it).

~~~
davidcollantes
The repo is at [https://github.com/totaljs/premium-
messenger](https://github.com/totaljs/premium-messenger)

------
Chris2048
Nooooooo(de)

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ajarmst
Is there an unserviced market for people who like Slack, but worry that it has
too big a resource footprint, that I'm unaware of?

~~~
tombh
I'm at least one of them. I'm travelling so use a cheap 2GB laptop, it's
almost unusable.

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tobyhinloopen
It's not a slack killer, it is a free clone

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ziikutv
Looks like the website is down.

~~~
mekicha
Yep, I'm getting a 408 error here.

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franciscop
> Benefits: No NPM dependencies

While excessive dependencies is a problem and a liability, reinventing the
wheel is even a bigger problem! NPM is there to solve a problem and when used
correctly it brings HUGE benefits in many ways. Listing this as a benefit is
clearly not understanding what NPM is for and part of the classical Not
Invented Here.

~~~
mbel
Not relying on package manager does not imply that they rewritten all the
functionality provided by relevant packages. They may still use 3rd party
libraries but instead of adding dependency to package manager, they may pull
their sources in build script or copy the sources into their own source tree.

~~~
ezekg
Seeing as the index.js file is _15,482 lines of code_ [0] all attributed to a
single author, I seriously doubt it.

[0]:
[https://github.com/totaljs/framework/blob/master/index.js](https://github.com/totaljs/framework/blob/master/index.js)

Edit: apparently that's not the right repo… looks like the comments are right
that the source code for the _messenger_ app is not on GitHub.

~~~
nulagrithom
Took me a bit to figure out that Total.js is a framework and the Slack clone
(Messenger) is built on top of it.

Total.js itself appears to be 15k lines in a single file with no dependencies,
built and maintained by one guy (for the most part). Insanity.

~~~
KajMagnus
In which way is that I insane? (I might be a tad bit more insane :-/ )

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kolme
Does anybody know how it compares to mattermost?

~~~
ourcat
Mattermost is to Twitter as TotalJS is to Slack.

~~~
CCing
Why you compare mattermost to twitter ?

~~~
ourcat
Argh! I'm sorry. I just realised I typed 'Mattermost' rather than 'Mastodon'!

I meant: "Mastodon is to Twitter as TotalJS is to Slack".

:)

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mentos
Anyone recommend the most feature complete open source version of Slack?

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haskaalo
Or just use Discord. Yes it is "meant" for gamer. But it does everything Slack
already do. And better. My team use it.

~~~
rublev
If only it didn't have the whole gigantic material-y 2.0 UI with gigantic
everything. I want a tiny tiny customizable window with everything compact and
anything non necessary gone.

~~~
perezdev
I would be curious to know which things you're referencing. Because I'm
looking at it right now and it mostly seems fine. No icons or anything seem
overly large.

~~~
adsfqwop
Try and squeeze discord into a 400x400 window (or something similarly small
and out of the way) to put in the corner of your screen. Mission impossible.

Squeeze an IRC client into 400x400, and you'll still have plenty of room to
read what's going on.

IRC sample (it's not 400x400, but you should get the idea):

[http://www.ubuntugeek.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/07/smuxi-0...](http://www.ubuntugeek.com/wp-
content/uploads/2010/07/smuxi-0.7.2-linx-main-window.png)

Discord sample for comparison:

[http://static.filehorse.com/screenshots-mac/messaging-and-
ch...](http://static.filehorse.com/screenshots-mac/messaging-and-chat/discord-
screenshot-01.jpg)

I think there's a lot that could be done to make Discord more desktop real
estate friendly. It's one semi-dealbreaker for me too. I can't have one single
chat app require almost one whole new monitor.

~~~
notamy
If you're willing to mess with the CSS, there's always things like
beautifuldiscord:
[https://github.com/leovoel/BeautifulDiscord](https://github.com/leovoel/BeautifulDiscord)

~~~
rublev
YES! Awesome thank you. Going to give this a shot.

------
thraway2016
Another, and better, alternative to slack: IRC.

~~~
ptman
Or [https://matrix.org/](https://matrix.org/) /
[https://riot.im/app/](https://riot.im/app/)

~~~
pishpash
Until they figure out a better way to bridge to Slack and other popular walled
gardens, it will remain in the realm of those universal IM chat programs of
yore, always chasing proprietary protocol changes.

~~~
Arathorn
what's the problem with the slack bridging btw? the fact it needs webhooks? (a
puppeted bridge is on the horizon that logs you in natively as your slack
user)

------
chrisfinne
How did this link rocket to the front page so quickly and get a bunch of
points, but the comments are mostly pointing out aspects/criticisms of this
product that show it is not in alignment with the HN community?

Astroturfing?

~~~
throwasehasdwi
It was posted at the best time day for a US audience (5 am CDT) and the
marketing for it is pretty solid. But yes I think so, it had around 10 upvotes
in a minute or so.

Minor astroturfing (having real people you know with real HN accounts) rocket
you to the front page is pretty easy and hard to detect. It only takes around
5 votes as long as you get them quickly and they're judged to be high quality
votes. However if you don't keep getting votes (your post is totally horrible)
you will drop off FP fast.

------
unicornporn
Or just go with [https://riot.im/](https://riot.im/)
([https://matrix.org/](https://matrix.org/)). It's federated, support E2E and
kicks ass.

~~~
IshKebab
Can you do all the useful user-friendly things slack does perfectly?

* Drag-and-drop file uploads. * Paste images from clipboard. * Search previous file uploads. * Video uploads with inline preview.

They're the sort of thing I always find open source solutions never get around
to.

~~~
firewalkwithme
What do you work with, that you need these functions so frequently ? I never
once even thought about needing or wanting any of these features

~~~
Frondo
Oh man, all of those things are so convenient once you start using them. If
you've never used them, great, irc is probably fine. For me, I could never
ever go back to irc, having gotten accustomed to all that stuff on slack.

For example, want to share a screenshot? Hit print screen to capture it, click
to the browser, click to the tab, hit ctrl-v to paste, done. Instead of, what,
uploading an image to an image-sharing site? I wouldn't even know how to do
that at this point.

~~~
CCing
How slack copy from the source ? I'm missing something or you never do ctrl+c
?

~~~
notamy
PrintScreen copies to the clipboard.

~~~
CCing
Oh thank you!

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amval
"Built on NoSQL embedded database"

Honest question, why is this a benefit?

~~~
jpalomaki
Easier to setup if there's no external dependencies to install and maintain?

~~~
cmrx64
This is equally true of SQLite, so why call out NoSQL specifically? And which
flavor NoSQL is it anyway :)

~~~
jedimastert
Genuine question, why does SQLite get so much hate? Is it because it's SQL, or
it's embedded, or what? I've used it for a lot of projects where I have to
move the server around a lot and it's super convenient

~~~
vlunkr
I don't know that it gets a lot of hate, it's just generally not considered to
be an adequate production server database.

~~~
lillesvin
Huh? Not sure what you mean but it's not intended as a "server database". It
is however used a lot in production as an embedded DB in applications. E.g.
I've seen SQLite in lots of Android apps.

~~~
vlunkr
Right, that's what I mean.

