
List of screw drives - gasull
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives
======
blhack
As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems
like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this.

Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx _drivers_ than I have torx
heads.

I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over
flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out.

Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point that they are self-centering,
and make industrial manufacturing easier. I guess that makes sense.

~~~
micheljansen
As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads:
you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion.

Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension
and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep
sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle.

Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting movement in two
dimensions and force the screwdriver to always be in the center, but they slip
easily and wear quickly.

Torx are superior because they fit much more "snugly", though at the (minor)
cost of being less forgiving of using the wrong size of screwdriver.

~~~
kbrosnan
An advantage of flathead is that it is easy to unfoul the screw head. A minute
with a utility knife or a flathead screwdriver will clear the channel of dirt
or paint. I would not want to deal with a torx that has several layers of
paint dried into it.

~~~
dalore
Break out the drill and drill a tiny hole down the centre to crack the screw.
Now pull it out and can put in a new clean one.

~~~
atom058
Using a reverse drill (if you have one) might also be helpful

The drill will bite into the screw and start unscrewing it

------
joshu
Do you find yourself stripping Phillips head acres frequently? That is because
you are confusing Phillips and Pozidriv heads. They look similar but have a
different head and different amount of engagement.

I just bought myself some Wiha drivers after years of using shitty tools. I am
so much happier now.

~~~
SAI_Peregrinus
Even using the correct drivers Phillips head screws tend to strip. I have both
drivers, and the Pozidriv screws seem to strip quite a lot less frequently
than the Phillips. Of course neither strips as rarely as Torx, Allen, or
Robinson. Hex bolts are also great.

~~~
slededit
Phillips screws are design to have the driver leave the socket if it is over-
torqued. Frequently people keep going after this has occurred which results in
stripped heads, but if you listen to what the tool is trying to tell you then
it shouldn't happen.

~~~
stephen_g
I’ve mainly had the problem when getting them out. Especially when the
application requires thread locking compound and has been out in the field for
a few months or years - even when they had been properly torqued with a torque
wrench.

We abandoned Phillips and Pozidriv completely and went to Torx for the screws
(we were already using hex for bolts). Haven’t really had any issues stripping
out screws since.

~~~
magduf
>I’ve mainly had the problem when getting them out.

Yeah, that's your problem right there. Removing an old Phillips screw will
take more (usually much more) torque than it took to install it, so it'll cam
out. The problem is that you're trying to get them out. Don't do that.
Phillips screws were never designed for removal that way. They were meant to
be used for installation only, and to limit torque on installation. If it's
been installed with thread-locker, that should be a sign to you that it's
never supposed to be removed. If you want a screw that's meant to be removed
after years of service, pick something else; Phillips is not designed for
this.

~~~
Ajedi32
Unfortunately, if you're trying to remove a screw after years of service,
chances are you weren't the one who originally decided what type of screw head
to use.

------
nfriedly
When my wife and I bought our house, I thought the previous owner had stripped
the hell out of some Phillips screws... then I learned what Robertson (square)
screws were.

After getting the proper bit though, I’ve started to really appreciate them. I
don’t think I’ve ever stripped a single one.

~~~
mikepurvis
Robertson is excellent but they seem to be a uniquely Canadian phenomenon. My
company ships robots to the US in big crates, and we've had to switch to
building them with Philips screws instead because of issues with local
availability.

~~~
sophacles
Maybe it's a regional thing? Here in the midwest US the hardware stores carry
them and Phillips, in about 50:50 proportion -- At least for construction
screws (decking screws for example) this is true. Most of the contractors I
know locally prefer them as well.

~~~
linsomniac
They are around here, but I'd say star point (not sure if they are double
square or Torx), seem to be as prevalent at Home Depot as Robertson. I'm in
Colorado, so on the cusp of the West.

------
jgibson
As a teenager I stripped nearly all the screws holding the crankcase of my
motorcycle together before realizing that JIS was different from Phillips.
Didn't help that most of the old steel screws had seized against the aluminium
crankcase. After a few unsuccessful attempts with an impact driver, I ended up
just welding nuts to the heads, waiting for the heat to soak, then then
wrenching them off. Then threw the lot out and replaced them with something
sensible - stainless internal hex head screws. I guess the original theory for
JIS was that its easier to replace a screw you've mangled then it is to
replace the internal thread you stripped by over torquing it.

~~~
barrkel
Stainless will sieze in aluminium much easier than plain steel due to
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion)
. Anti-sieze copper paste recommended if stainless is used, and it's often not
a bad idea in any case.

~~~
jgibson
Yeah, I definitely had some of that around, although I think I used the nickel
stuff as it was cheaper. Reminds me of this quote:

"The key to motorcycle maintenance is knowing when to use anti-sieze and when
to use thread-locker"

------
thought_alarm
In Canada there is a saying: Anyone who doesn't use a Robertson head is just
being an asshole.

~~~
bdickason
Stupid question but I've been doing alot of construction lately and using Torx
(25 I think?) for everything. What's the advantage of Robertson screws? (in
particular for woodworking)

~~~
theluketaylor
Robertson has a really nice taper that makes one handed operation really easy
even when the screw metal isn't magnetic. The large size of the recess also
means you can work Robertson screws even after they have been painted or
varnished over. Robertson sizing is also incredibly simple so you grab the
right tool every time. Each size has a colour name so you can easily call out
each size to a tool fetching assistant (always my role as a kid) and there is
no ambiguity if the screwdriver is the right size or not.

Not a ton of advantages over Torx for initial assembly, but if you ever need
to repair, especially someone else's work, Robertson is second to none.

------
joncrane
Interesting historical point: Apple started using the pentalobe fasteners in
their iPhones in order to make it more difficult for end users to service
their phones.

[https://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-
pla...](https://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-plan-to-
screw-your-iphone/)

~~~
ddacunha
Is this the reason they have switched to Pentalobe screw. I have googled for
material but couldn't find anything. Pentalobe screws are not that hard to
find and considering the popularity of Apple devices, they will get easier to
find. When I compare them to Torx screws I suppose the points rounder shape
makes the screwdriver more resistant, which may be an advantage when assembly
millions. I am no expert, and I would appreciate if someone has an informed
opinion.

~~~
joncrane
Well, let's try the counterargument approach.

Given what we know about fasteners (you need look no further than this
thread), why _else_ would Apple choose Pentalobe, of all the options?

------
toomanybeersies
Not sure how common in the rest of the world it is, but in New Zealand it's
quite common to have screws that are a combo-bit, and accept Phillips/pozi
drive and also Robertson drive. The construction industry is a bit split
between Pozi and Robertson, or at least it was a few years ago.

Robertson drive is an amazing drive for construction work. The screws stick
nicely onto magnetised drivers, so that you can screw them into awkward
locations, and they're really resistant to stripping the head. In this day and
age, you can set the maximum torque on most electric screwdrivers/drills, so
there's no need for a drive that intrinsically limits the torque like Phillips
drives.

~~~
linsomniac
I first noticed this on electrical components like switches, receptacles, and
breakers here in the US, a few months ago. All the screws on the devices
themselves are flat, Phillips (maybe Pozi, didn't check) and square. I was
remodeling my kitchen and adding some circuits, replacing all the devices, and
pigtailing all the old Aluminum.

Those multi-driver heads are pretty wonderful!

------
askvictor
I'd like to see the development of these on a timeline, including the rise of
power tools. I suspect that hex, torx, and similar are only feasible due to
torque-control being available on modern driving tools; prior to that the
screw had to be able to disengage (cam out) to prevent it breaking.

~~~
dugditches
This touches on what you're talking about. If you have the time the entire
video's a gem of history screw history touching on Nails going into screw
coatings, drives, etc.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jG5xtSQAo#t=5m05s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jG5xtSQAo#t=5m05s)

------
jimnotgym
In the UK construction industry the pozidrive has long been the most used,
followed by some special purpose designs using torx. Sometimes kitchens would
come with the same crappy phillips screws as flatpack furniture.

However belt feed drywall screws were always phillips. In fact most drywall
screws were. It always infuriated me if you wanted to put some extras in with
a drill (or take some out) that you had to go searching for a PH2. I wondered
if there was some special reason for it persisting with drywall screws,
especially when screwing drywall is relative new to the UK, with most being
nailed up until maybe 15 years ago? Auto feed drywall guns cam out like
crazy...

Now I also wonder why we would always call the drywall "plasterboard" yet call
the screws for it "drywall screws"!

~~~
bluGill
drywall is the only place where phillips still makes sense: you will never
remove them anyway and the cam out feature cams out at the right place.

Note that drywall screws are brittle and worthless for anything other tan
drywall even though people use them for almost anything. On the rare case you
need to remove drywall you break it out, and then break the screws off.

------
SwellJoe
I had to buy a set of tripoint drivers to open up and work on Gameboys. That
was annoying (I've never seen them anywhere else).

For some reason my RV (an old 1984 Avion) uses Robertson screws nearly
everywhere, which is actually nice. The big chunky square holds up to rust and
corrosion better than Phillips. Kinda wish more things used Robertson.

------
hungerstrike
It seems like choosing a screw drive is almost as difficult as choosing which
programming library, framework or environment to use.

Well, maybe not. New ones probably aren’t added quite as often.

~~~
analog31
I work for a company that makes scientific equipment. We apply a few basic
criteria, which narrow things down a lot.

First, a lot of those fasteners are either really specialized or just rare or
obsolete. So they can be ruled out.

We look for something that will be easy for our assemblers, and for our field
service technicians. They have given us feedback on what they like and
dislike, including what kinds of tools are common in different parts of the
world. They hate flat head screws. Hex socket screws are really easy, and it's
also easy to make them look nice on an assembly.

To an increasing extent, we want tools that can be used with a torque handle.
For instance hex drive is better than Philips in that regard.

I hate to say that it's still a work in progress, but we are heroically trying
to get away from fractional drivers, especially for our field technicians who
presently have to carry full sets of US and metric tools. We even have
mixtures of US and metric in some products!

If something is meant to be serviced by a customer (e.g., a lamp or filter
that gets replaced), then we stick with Philips, which we are told is common
worldwide. Or we use a captive knurled fastener if it's in a place where
there's finger access.

So these are just a few thoughts. Other considerations are whether you're in
an industry that has already standardized on a particular tool set, such as
metric allen wrenches for bikes.

~~~
kazinator
> _We even have mixtures of US and metric in some products!_

In North America, tire sizes are given in millimeter width, but imperial
mounting diameter. E.g. 175-65R14: 175mm width, 65% aspect ratio (sidewall
height to width or something like that), for a 14" wheel.

~~~
nlawalker
I just learned about Nominal Pipe Size, in which the number that precedes the
word "inches" does not refer to any actual measurement on the pipe. The
specific characteristic of the gas grill pipe hookup on the back of my house
that makes it a "half inch pipe" is that it has a .84 inch outer diameter;
there is literally nothing about it, including the inner diameter, that could
be described by the words "half inch".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_Pipe_Size](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_Pipe_Size)

~~~
anamexis
Then of course there's North American dimensional lumber, where the actual
dimensions are either 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4 inches less than the nominal
dimensions. A 2x4 is 1.5 x 3.5 inches.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Basically people using numbers as symbols. Quite annoying.

~~~
grzm
The history is a little more interesting than that:

> _Lumber 's nominal dimensions are larger than the actual standard dimensions
> of finished lumber. Historically, the nominal dimensions were the size of
> the green (not dried), rough (unfinished) boards that eventually became
> smaller finished lumber through drying and planing (to smooth the wood).
> Today, the standards specify the final finished dimensions and the mill cuts
> the logs to whatever size it needs to achieve those final dimensions.
> Typically, that rough cut is smaller than the nominal dimensions because
> modern technology makes it possible and it uses the logs more efficiently.
> For example, a "2×4" board historically started out as a green, rough board
> actually 2 by 4 inches (51 mm × 102 mm). After drying and planing, it would
> be smaller, by a nonstandard amount. Today, a "2×4" board starts out as
> something smaller than 2 inches by 4 inches and not specified by standards,
> and after drying and planing is reliably 1½ by 3½ inches (38 mm × 89 mm)._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber#North_American_softwood...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber#North_American_softwoods)

~~~
ken
It seems bizarre to me to define the standard 'size' of an item based on some
aspect of the manufacturing process that is not part of the final product the
user will ever see, or could measure.

Shoe sizes often measure the size of the _last_ , not the foot. One shoe
company I've bought from in the past had a warning on their webpage that they
use different manufacturing processes for different models, so the same
numbered size of two similar-looking shoes actually differ by quite a bit.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I also find shoe numbering bizarre. How could such a numbering system survive
to this day? Why not use goddamn centimeters?

(Fortunately, e-stores selling shoes were bitten enough by the ridiculousness
of that problem that they ended up providing scales translating shoe numbers
to centimeters.)

Ultimately, the best workaround I've seen was the one the father of my SO used
- he would measure the foot of his child, then cut a wooden stick to
appropriate length, and go with that stick to the shoes store.

~~~
kazinator
US shoe numbering for men is simple.

There is a bit of insanity in that women's and children's sizes are derived
from that in more than one way.

There are two ways of determining size, but they are supposed to coincide,
theoretically.

Manufacturers use the "last length" as the basis for shoe size. However, that
is not the foot length, and how a shoe with a given "last length" fits a given
foot is a variable and so the fit ultimately requires testing. The last length
is supposed to be about two shoe sizes larger than the foot length.

The last length formula is L _3 - 24. So a last length of 12 inches (one foot)
corresponds to size 12. From there, surrounding sizes are 1 /3 of an inch
increments. Which is the odd thing: where else you do you see increments of
1/3 inch?

Thus, in any case, if you have a 12" foot, that's a US men's size 14.

The foot measuring instrument you see in stores, Brannock's Device, accounts
for this and so its formula is L_3 - 22.

So these sizing systems are intended to coincide, but are different
estimators.

You can see that using centimeters doesn't solve all the problems. Suppose
centimeters were used, but the manufacturers used last-length centimeters
rather than foot centimeters. You'd have to convert your foot length to last
length according to some rule of thumb, and then ultimately resolve things by
trying the shoe. If manufacturers had to use foot centimeters, they wouldn't
be able to measure some trivial property of the shoe like last size to
determine size. Foot centimeters aren't absolute; they would have to use some
representative model of a foot and base it off that: still no guarantee that a
27cm size based on a representative model foot fits your 27cm foot.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Yeah, I meant "foot centimeters" \- the issue isn't about metric vs. imperial,
I'm just writing from European experience. The issue is about "foot" vs "last"
vs "shoe numbers".

I'm not fully convinced by the argument that manufacturers (or at least
distributors) can't use foot centimeters - after all, somehow I can
successfully buy shoes on-line by measuring my foot and then using vendor-
provided foot-length-to-shoe-size conversion scale to pick appropriate size.
From the experience of myself and everyone else I asked around, this works
reliably.

------
I_complete_me
There's a lovely little book called "One Good Turn" by Witold Rybczynski
subtitled 'A Natural History of the Screwdriver and the Screw' A pure delight
for those interested in such things like me.

------
tlb
It's remarkable that pretty much every feasible design has some traction. You
might expect it to be winner-take-all.

~~~
pacificmint
I suspect the tool industry has a strong incentive to keep as many of them as
possible in use.

I have a feeling that they push new designs to manufacturers as being 'tamper-
proof', then once sufficiently adopted, push them to the sales channel to be
open to open these tamper-proof screws. Repeat as needed to keep revenue up.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Not to mention they could also have metric and imperial systems like hex
keys...

------
bluedino
I was kind of hoping this was going to be about ball screws -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_screw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_screw)

~~~
namibj
Rest assured, I was hoping for a detailed comparison and explanation of the
differences between them and e.g. Roller Screws. Advocating for Torx seems to
be nice though.

------
analog31
I suspect that aside from tamper proof designs, most screw head development is
driven from the manufacturing or assembly side. After all, most screws will
never be unscrewed.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _After all, most screws will never be unscrewed._

That's because they don't want _you_ to unscrew them. There's a bit of a
feedback loop here - the less user-serviceable stuff you make, the less users
expect to be able to fix things themselves, so there's less need to make next
things user-serviceable.

~~~
agumonkey
Totally. I'm a bit shocked how effective this is. For years the sight of a
torx or rarer socket would stop me from even thinking about opening a device.
I don't know if it was impossible to find before but today you can buy most
heads easily. And when you think about it, it's just a damn contact surface
for a lever.. don't stop (unless there's a real safety hazard)

~~~
lsc
I find this to be really weird... Anyone who has worked on vehicles knows the
importance of getting the exact right tool to unfasten a fastener (and the...
consequences of using something that "almost works" \- usually meaning you
have to spend hours trying to get the fastener out)

I mean, sure, you need tools to open things up... but the right bit is about a
thousand times more important than an expensive bit, and for $10, you can get
a huge assortment of cheap bits that are good enough for the home gamer.

This always baffled me about the apple pentalobe haters... I mean, using a
different screwdriver head is not the unfriendly part of taking an apple
apart. The glued-in bits are the unfriendly part.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _Anyone who has worked on vehicles knows the importance of getting the exact
> right tool to unfasten a fastener_

If you're a pro auto shop, you can probably get your hands on all of the
exactly right tools. If you're an individual, it's another story...

It's a matter of lag in the supply/demand loop. The moment Apple introduced
pentalobe screws, or in general, the moment a different company introduces an
unusual screw head, is the moment when you're very unlikely to be able to get
your hands on appropriate drivers. As more and more products use the new head,
the demand becomes big enough that eventually, appropriate drivers get
available and cheap. From what I've seen, this can take years - longer than
the lifetime of the first iteration of a product using the new screws. Enough
to destroy end-user repairability for a whole category of products. After a
while, the company will change screw heads again, rinse and repeat.

And the glue. That's just companies being assholes.

(Yes, I know there are technical benefits of using glue. They're especially
pronounced if you don't consider end-user or third-party serviceability in
your design process, and even more so if you explicitly try to eliminate it in
your business strategy.)

~~~
lsc
>If you're a pro auto shop, you can probably get your hands on all of the
exactly right tools. If you're an individual, it's another story...

Meh, I'm mostly talking about getting the right socket for the job... I mean,
don't use the ASE socket that is almost the same as the metric bolt you are
working on, go down to the hardware store and get the right tool.

That's the thing about automotive work; as far as I can tell, automotive tools
are very widely available and cheap, compared to other tools I've worked with,
and not only that, but you go to the auto parts store, and the people are
helpful and knowledgeable. I mean, if I need some SAC305 on the weekend, well,
fry's might have that, maybe, but nobody there will know the difference
between SAC305 and sn99. If I need any sort of server-grade parts, I'm almost
certainly stuck waiting for monday. Fry's has a very small selection of ECC
memory or enterprise-grade disks, for example. And you aren't going to have a
Fry's in a small town, but you will have a Napa auto or similar.

I mean, part of it is that I know a fair bit about computers and really not
all that much about cars, but when I show up even at the chain auto parts
stores, they can answer even relatively difficult questions. This is not, in
my experience, true of Frys.

When it comes to tech support, be it a computer or a car that needs fixing,
the difficulty of a question is directly proportional to it's vagueness.
Newbies are more likely to ask difficult questions than more experienced and
knowledgeable people who actually know enough to tell you what the actual
problem is.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>I mean, don't use the ASE socket that is almost the same as the metric bolt
you are working on

Just use whatever fits tightest. Fasteners get smaller from rust.

Some people organize their sockets by size and ignore which unit they're sized
in.

> they can answer even relatively difficult questions. This is not, in my
> experience, true of Frys.

This is only because you don't know what you don't know and don't have reason
to ask complicated or very specific questions at the auto parts store whereas
you do at the computer store. The median parts counter person has the same
depth of knowledge across basically all industries.

[https://seekerblog.com/2006/01/31/the-murray-gell-mann-
amnes...](https://seekerblog.com/2006/01/31/the-murray-gell-mann-amnesia-
effect/)

------
andrewaylett
I find it interesting that so many people here see the choice as being between
Phillips and Torx -- all the time I was growing up (in the UK), Torx bits were
incredibly difficult to get hold of while Pozidriv became more and more
common, to the point where I don't think I've any loose non-Pozidriv screws in
the house, and I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone selling Torx screws.

------
burfog
I like the connectors that were used on the Capsela toys. The two mating parts
were identical, each with three prongs. It looks like a radiation symbol that
is missing the center dot.

An interesting property is that there would be no need to carefully match the
diameter.

------
walrus01
If you work with wood/carpentry construction in Canada, a higher percentage of
things are square drive (Robertson). They were less common until recently in
the USA due to patent licensing issues.

------
jammi
The only real reason for Phillips screw heads were the old electromechanical
industry robots that would rely on auto-centering and spring tension to pop
the driver out of the screw against a switch at the set torque. Modern (since
1980s or so) industry robots are computer-driven and torque-sensing. Phillips
(and Pozidriv) needs to die in favor of modern superior screw drive designs
like Torx.

~~~
collyw
Out of interest what is better about Torx?

With "normal" screws you can usually improvise something when you are without
tools.

~~~
blhack
They don't strip, or at least it would take a _tremendous_ amount of torque to
strip them. My experience has been that the driver strips before the head
does.

~~~
jammi
Usually the screw snaps in two at over-torquing before either the head or tool
strips.

~~~
hvidgaard
I've had that happen a few times. It's super annoying, but that what you get
when not paying for the quality screws.

~~~
jammi
Happens with the better ones as well, it's just a matter of setting the torque
limiter of your screwdriver/coordless drill to match the job. Sometimes takes
a few mistakes, but it's safer to start with a low setting and adjust up until
you have the right torque for the screw.

------
droidist2
It's interesting that a lot of these variants were/are being created as
security or tamper-proof mechanisms, a real world type of "security through
obscurity" (although a different type of obscurity than is usually meant by
that phrase). Then it becomes not obscure enough and they make a new type of
screw.

~~~
Deestan
Security through inconvenience?

------
B1FF_PSUVM
Once I found that a simple, cheap clothes iron was defended against would-be
worn wire fixers (me) by a flat screw slot with a protruding center pin.

Fortunately I had a small sharp file to cut a notch in a cheap flat-bladed
screwdriver, and all was well. The device doesn't seem to be listed here.

------
dsfyu404ed
It's all about force and material properties. The drive type doesn't matter as
long as it can handle the force it will see. If the tool and the fastener fit
well the limitation is usually whatever has the smallest minor diameter.

------
devy
I like Steve Ramsey's Woodworking Basics 101 on this topic:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GiYrFyNVUU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GiYrFyNVUU)

------
floatboth
In Russia, no one knows what "philips" and "pozidriv" are, it's all just
"cross" lol

------
bhaavan
Will this data make it to a Sheldon dialog in The Big Bang Theory?

------
lamename
# of arguments about screw drives = # screw drives !

Great fun

------
mauvehaus
If you keep stripping Phillips head screws, and they _aren 't_ Pozidriv (or
JIS)[0], it could be that you should buy better screwdrivers. Well made screw
drivers engage the head much more postively than poorly made ones.
Unfortunately, virtually everything available in the muggle tool aisle is
poorly made. This includes Kobalt, Husky, and Craftsman. I've owned
screwdrivers made by all 3, and none of them can hold a candle to a truly good
screwdriver.

If you want good screw drivers, Klein makes excellent ones. Klein's target
market is electricians, and you can sometimes find them in the electrical
aisle in muggle stores. Alternately, an electrical supply house (i.e. a wizard
store) will probably stock them (or something equally good). Expect to pay $10
USD per screwdriver. It's worth it.

The other option I can personally vouch for is the Snap-On. Their market is
principally mechanics. I haven't bought any, only used a friends, so I can't
comment on how to buy them (online or find a truck, I'd imagine), or what to
expect to pay.

TL;DR: Shop where the pros shop if you want good tools. For most pros, the
most expensive part of a job is their time, so it's worth not having tools
that take up a lot of it because they aren't good.

Quick and mostly accurate test for is a store a wizard store or a muggle
store: Are they open on weekends? If so, odds are it's a muggle store.

[0] JIS is also superficially similar to Pozidriv and Phillips, and also
mutually incompatible. Honda apparently uses them. I found out when I
mentioned I destroyed a P2 impact bit on a stuck screw (from America's leading
purveyor of single-use tools, admittedly) on a Honda form. I was educated.

ETA: Not a pro in the domain of electricity or mechanics, but as a woodworker,
it's important to have good screwdrivers to avoid stripping brass screws,
which are much softer than steel.

------
ktosobcy
it misses _sonic screwdriver_

(sorry, couldn't help myself)

------
oneeyedpigeon
This is like the first-panel setup for an xkcd strip.

------
Lionsion
Important FYI for any Americans who don't know:

Ikea screws are _not_ Phillips, they're actually _Pozidriv_ , which is
different enough to matter. Do not use a Phillips screwdriver to assemble Ikea
furnature, as that combination will _easily_ cam out and ruin the (typically
soft metal) screw. It's easiest to buy the correct Pozidriv screwdriver bits
from Ikea, but they're also available online.

My understanding is that Pozidriv is as popular in Europe as Phillips is in
America. They look so similar that you probably won't know the difference
unless you're told about it.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pozidriv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pozidriv):

> Pozidriv and Phillips are not interchangeable. While Pozidriv screwdrivers
> fit Phillips screws, they may slip or tear out the Phillips screw head.
> Conversely, while Phillips screwdrivers will loosely fit and turn Pozidriv
> screws, they will cam out if enough torque is applied, potentially damaging
> the screw head or screwdriver.

~~~
vertexFarm
Ugh, except Pozidriv will still cam and tear up their own screws, and same
with Phillips. That's the secret to this tidbit of information that is never
included. They're both trash fasteners when used with a slightly different
driver, but they're also trash even when used correctly.

Robertson for life. When I was young I had a job assembling furniture and
that, along with a couple Allen socket fasteners, was the only thing we used.
Phillips fasteners that came with assemblies went straight into metal
recycling to hopefully get born again as something worthwhile. You can
practically drive a Robertson head straight through the center of the Earth
with the amount of torque it handles. Never have to waste time drilling pilot
holes.

If I was made dictator for a day, I'd immediately outlaw Phillips and
Pozidriv. Even flat head is better than those pieces of junk.

There are a lot of Phillips fasteners that will also fit a Robertson bit. Just
try both with the same screw. It's ludicrous how instantly you'll realize the
Robertson is better.

~~~
antisthenes
Last time I tried to use a Robertson screw from Home Depot in a heavy duty
application (building an AC frame and decking), it cammed out and the square
opening in the screw literally became round. I tried compensating by applying
more downward force, but eventually it was still camming out and the bit
itself became a cylinder.

It maybe better, but if the manufacturing quality is garbage, it's just as
useless as the other ones.

I've only been using torx screws from 2012 onward. Never cammed out once and
I'm still using 5 year old bits (they work like new)

~~~
vertexFarm
Huh. I've never had that happen once out of literally thousands of screws from
all kinds of different sources, including HD. Should be impossible for it to
cam because the walls of the cavity are perpendicular. There's no thrust force
being generated.

Maybe it was just a really bad batch?

~~~
mindslight
I have some R2 stainless "decking" (read: general construction) screws, and a
standard consumer cordless impact driver generates enough transient torque to
actually deform the cavity. Which even then results in the bit being "sticky"
to pull out. I would imagine after several use cycles, the drive would be
completely stripped.

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HaifaHacker
My favorite is the skrillex head.

------
DEFCON28
I like the skrillex

------
appleCored
What, no pentalobe?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_security_screw)

~~~
grzm
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pentalobe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Pentalobe)

------
geofree
I'm partial to Mortorq, or at least drawn to the name...
[https://yarn.co/yarn-
clip/ccaafc61-fd54-4904-aa97-e73e532da9...](https://yarn.co/yarn-
clip/ccaafc61-fd54-4904-aa97-e73e532da986)

