

Depression's Evolutionary Roots - mmt
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary&print=true

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tokenadult
The submitted article makes an interesting evolutionary argument that
depressive realism

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism>

is to be expected rather than puzzling.

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chaosmachine
Puts an interesting spin on antidepressants.

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tokenadult
Yes, Kay Redfield Jamison, author of Touched with Fire: Manic-Depressive
Illness and the Artistic Temperament,

[http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Manic-Depressive-
Artistic...](http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Manic-Depressive-Artistic-
Temperament/dp/068483183X/)

and co-author of the definitive text on manic-depressive illness

[http://www.amazon.com/Manic-Depressive-Illness-Disorders-
Rec...](http://www.amazon.com/Manic-Depressive-Illness-Disorders-Recurrent-
Depression/dp/0195135792/)

has thought out loud in her writings over the years about whether treatments
for depression that help suffering people may also deprive society of creative
output. Her current thinking on the issue--and she takes lithium herself every
day--is that the best-evidenced mood-stabilizing treatments for mood disorders
are helpful to patients and increase rather than decrease their ability to
contribute useful work product to society. Her co-author, Frederick K.
Goodwin, M.D., is still deeply skeptical of some antidepressant medications
(e.g., the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) because of their capacity
for inducing mania in many bipolar patients.

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bkovitz
Interesting idea, that depression is useful for ruminating. But, the reasoning
seems premised on the idea that depressions are triggered by stressful events
like discovering that your spouse has been unfaithful. Doesn't most depression
occur due to seasonal changes such as the length of the day? (Hence
depressions that occur at the same time each year, the effectiveness of
treatments involving exposure to light at certain times of the day, etc.) The
noteworthy, puzzling thing about depression is that it comes "out of the
blue", for no apparent reason, _not_ in response to circumstances that would
explain a negative emotion. Also, when it lifts, there is similarly no
apparent explanation. A problem did not get resolved; a rumination did not
complete.

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bkovitz
Another problem with the theory: a major symptom of depression is inability to
concentrate. When you're depressed, it's like your IQ takes a 30-point hit.
You become much worse at thinking things through.

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Figs
Depends on what you're trying to think about, and what kind of depression you
have, doesn't it?

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roundsquare
That seems to fit the article. If someone is depressed about their cheating
spouse, and the person is spending all of their thought process cycles on
that, you wouldn't expect them to be good at math problems, or even other
social problems. The article describes depression as very focused thought, so
the ability to do anything else would presumeably suffer.

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azgolfer
The problem is that what you are ruminating over is probably not something
that can be fixed by thinking. For instance if her husband is cheating on her,
the woman should confront him. So depression would be adaptive only for
certain kinds of problems. Perhaps we over use it because in more primitive
conditions we would be constantly reacting to life and would be acting on
instinct most of the time.

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aurora72
This explanation of depression makes sense: My wife, who owns a gas station
went into a depression when I told her about the latest developments in
electric vehicles and how it would turn her job into a nonsense in the near
future. Because she could not object to the situation, she had no other way
but adapt to it and later came a real clinical depression, all because of what
I reminded her.

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lionhearted
One of my dreams is to write an article worthy of being published in
Scientific American, and getting it published there. SciAm consistently
impresses me - they'll break new and groundbreaking things, but what's more
impressive to me is how they avoid not giving into fluff the way many other
publications do. And they make science pretty accessible and interesting. I've
never written as more than a semi-professional hobby, but I'd love to put some
of my research together well enough to get into the magazine at some point.

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bkovitz
SciAm is indeed amazing, but this particular article seems like pure
speculation.

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rjprins
It's speculation with logic. You don't always need make measurements to get
accurate conclusions.

The points in this article sound logical to me and also useful. Dismissing
them as "pure speculation" does not seem justified.

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bkovitz
Don't get me wrong. I love speculation. Speculation drives science, and I
don't think any interesting scientific idea can ever be conclusively "proven".
Just, what's this article doing in SciAm? For an idea to get into SciAm is a
big score because the idea has matured and seems significant. This one just
sounds like something a couple guys would kick around over a beer without
really knowing much about the topic. See my comments elsewhere on this page
for specific, well-known problems that the article doesn't address.

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livgiv
Depressions/recessions are like forest fires, necessary evils that purge old
models to make way for new ones. It's the best time to innovate and impact the
world.

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gjm11
Wrong meaning of "depression", as you'd have found if you'd read even the
first two sentences of the article.

