
The Unfortunate Fallout of Campus Postmodernism - aq3cn
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-unfortunate-fallout-of-campus-postmodernism/
======
Theizestooke
"Students are being taught by these postmodern professors that there is no
truth, that science and empirical facts are tools of oppression by the white
patriarchy, and that nearly everyone in America is racist and bigoted,
including their own professors, most of whom are liberals or progressives
devoted to fighting these social ills."

What's the source for this? Why should I take this article more seriously than
a random screed on social media?

~~~
mizzack
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars#Postmodernism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_wars#Postmodernism)

~~~
gedy
Also: [https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-
philosophy](https://www.britannica.com/topic/postmodernism-philosophy)

------
brad0
I find myself thinking how much technology has had an influence on
polarisation of viewpoints, particularly political ones (conservative vs
liberal).

There is a correlation between young adults coming of age in the era of
"Recommended for you" playlists and "People who bought this also bought"
recommendations. I feel that these algorithms followed for long enough cause
you to end up in one extreme or another.

We have young students who are exposed to a single viewpoint for such a long
time that it becomes part of their identity. Either for the right or the left.

Now at university these two sides sometimes clash. Neither side is willing to
hear the other argument as listening to them will invalidate a core part of
their identity.

This all seems to be a side effect of technology companies trying to maximise
profit. The longer a user stays on the site the more money they make (ads,
products, etc).

As techies, how can we be socially responsible while also profiting? Is it
possible as a public company?

~~~
ebola1717
Eh, conservatives have been making this complaint for ages. It’s really not
new. Take the Vietnam war and civil rights protests of the 60s and 70s for
example. Tech has changed some dynamics, but in this case, it hasn’t
introduced something completely new.

~~~
brad0
Could you clarify what the complaint is they're making? I'm confused.

~~~
libertyEQ
I think, but don't know for sure, they are arguing that "elite, progressive
professors are indoctrinating our kids." Limbaugh has been making this claim
since '89 at least when I first heard it.

------
ebola1717
Richard Spencer held a rally at UF last week, and they had to arrest 3 of his
supporters for firing shots at protesters. I don’t have much sympathy for this
“college kids are overreacting” argument these days.

~~~
aaron-lebo
Spencer and his ilk are just going where they know they'll get attention and
reactions. They feed off each other.

------
sandworm101
"In response, an angry mob of 50 students disrupted his biology class,
surrounded him, called him a racist and insisted that he resign."

Students have been doing that for thousands of years. This isn't about racism
or post-modernism. This is about longstanding mob dynamics. Communists in pre-
revolution Russia and asia. Religious zealots in Scotland. Romans in their
ancient senate. This is simply a group of young people storming an office to
shout down an established member of an older generation. Once discovered, this
power feeds upon itself. It may be how revolutions start but more often than
not the young people get older/bored or things burn out as the movement grows
and internal power structures destroy themselves. You cannot stop the movement
by arguing its politics because those politics are beside the point. You stop
them by redirecting their energy towards something new, something more cool
than yesterday's politics.

~~~
alexanderstears
This is why we have to ban welfare for anyone with any sort of post-secondary
education. Nothing deradicalizes someone like a job and nothing radicalizes
someone like too much free time.

------
gtoast
This is a fine opinion piece but for learning anything substantive on this
subject it’s absolutely devoid of any facts or sourcing for any of its claims.
Also seems woefully, out of touch given recent profiles on Milo Yiannopoulos
and the arrest of three white supremacists on attempted murder charges for
firing guns on student protesters following a campus speech.

It’s possible the situation is slightly more nuanced then “college students
hate facts/white people”.

------
festidious
The author should tread carefully... I think the crisis of irreproducibility
and the publishing bubble extends to the heart of scientific disciplines as
well.

Like a lot of things in life, reality is probably more complex than the
postmodern humanities scholars or the realist scientific scholars would
suggest. There is some level of reality underlying discourse, but it's also
filtered through social processes at every step.

------
mintplant
> Students are being taught by these postmodern professors that there is no
> truth, that science and empirical facts are tools of oppression by the white
> patriarchy

Oh brother. Here we go again with another rant that cherry-picks a few
instances and pads them out with Orwell quotes and shrill claims like this.
I'm a current college student, and compared to my experience and the
experiences of my peers, the author is describing another reality. Very "kids
these days, get off my lawn".

------
kingkawn
Performative criticism of the devoted humanitarians for the sake of social
flagging oneself as a centrist is the problem.

~~~
aaron-lebo
Devoted humanitarians don't commit acts of violence or intimidate other people
through it.

~~~
kingkawn
I think they do those exact things when up against fascists. The people
they’re fighting are those who espouse racial superiorities and commit acts of
cultural and physical violence to intimidate the populations of people they’ve
chosen to see as inferior.

Appeals to the centrist middle are only meaningful insofar as that same center
is willing to act to protect the people being targeted by hate speech. If the
center is frozen by its own obsolete sense of propriety in the face of this
socially destabilizing hatred then I think it is not unreasonable to see a
small group take the call to action on themselves.

------
LexAckson
Much better article on postmodernism in USA.

[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-
ame...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-
its-mind/534231/)

------
cjjuice
Can someone explain to me why this was flagged?

~~~
grzm
There are two levels to answering questions like this. The purely mechanical
is that enough HN members clicked the "flag" link to cross the "[flagged]" tag
threshold. The second level answer is to speculate why those members chose to
click "flag". That's tougher, though in my experience one of the reasons is
because some members observe that unfortunately some topics are difficult to
constructively discuss on HN, regardless of the importance of the topic. I
think the current discussion is a pretty good example of that, in generating
more heat than light. Note that this doesn't mean these topics shouldn't be
discussed, just that there are likely better places (both online and off) to
do so.

------
samcodes
Ok but... While reading that, did you at any point wonder the ethnicity,
gender and approximate age of the author? Because I was less than surprised
when I saw him at the end of the article.

~~~
aaron-lebo
The sum of identity politics: ignore valid points because of who said them.
Sounds like prejudice, which you are probably against.

~~~
Apocryphon
On one hand you're right, ad hominem filtering on the basis of demography is
self-limiting.

On the other, it's ironic because the author is a specifically controversial
character:
[https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer#Accusations_of...](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer#Accusations_of_sexual_misconduct)

------
alexanderstears
The dissident right holds that this is a good thing - we can't get segregation
and a very comprehensive freedom of association from Constitutional
conservatives, but progressive leftists are more than happy to do the legwork
to erode protections around the 'protected classes'.

But it's something we see playing out across the anglo world - left learning
"right thinkers" break down some boundry and hand the keys to people who lean
right. Obama took the imperial Presidency to new heights and now Trump gets to
reap the rewards. Trump really wouldn't have been possible without Obama.

The sad irony is that leftists need the rule of law and impartial justice much
more than right wingers.

~~~
zimpenfish
> Obama took the imperial Presidency to new heights

By what criteria?

~~~
alexanderstears
[http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/443799/obamas-
imperial-...](http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/443799/obamas-imperial-
presidency)

~~~
zimpenfish
My fault; I should have said "by what quantifiable critera as compared to
previous presidents".

Woolly opinion pieces mean nothing.

