

Give Us Your Geniuses: Why Seeking Smart Immigrants Is a No-Brainer - a5seo
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/give-us-your-geniuses-why-seeking-smart-immigrants-is-a-no-brainer/258451/

======
arjunnarayan
I'm a "highly skilled immigrant".

I moved to the US at the age of 17, to go to college (on full financial aid).
I graduated and stuck on for a PhD in computer science. American private
organizations (i.e. Williams College) have spent $200,000 on my education. The
NSF (which indirectly through my advisor's grant funds my graduate education)
spends $80,000+ per year on my education. ($160,000 so far, and counting)

Let's leave alone the stupid fact that my visa (F-1) is explicitly a non-
immigrant visa (if I say that I have an intention to immigrate to the US
someday; I can be deported or denied re-entry or visa renewal). So time spent
in the US doesn't count for squat. If I hypothetically wanted to stay in the
US, I would have to go to the "back of the line" and get an H1-B.

I'm from India, so unless I qualify for an EB-1 visa (i.e. I get a tenure
track position at a top research university) it's 5+ years on the Green Card
waiting list. During those 5+ years on the waiting list I am tied to an
employer. This, obviously, decreases my negotiating situation. If I get fired,
I have 2 weeks to find a new job or get deported. If I switch jobs, the green-
card wait time can in some conditions be restarted. I am at the whims of a
ridiculous bureaucracy at all times (the few times I've dealt with USCIS for
employment authorization for internships have been a nightmare).

The H1-B is a poor option. Forget startups.

In contrast, due to my youth and education I am eligible for a work-permit not
tied to any particular employer in Canada, and qualify for permanent residency
in a year or two. Same with Singapore. The UK used to be the same before the
Conservatives came to power and halted all immigration.

To the xenophobes, I'm not saying I have a right to enter your country. I'm
just asking whether it's in your best interests to severely discourage me from
entering. I probably will leave when I'm done with my PhD. No. I certainly
will leave, because to state otherwise risks deportation under current
immigration rules.

~~~
rweba
I recently did some informal research and found that Canada has by far the
most positive public opinion towards immigration among "rich" Western
countries.

Many European countries view immigration in almost entirely negative terms
(largely for xenophobic reasons) and have been competing to make immigration
of any kind harder.

The UK has even recently made it harder for foreign graduates of UK
universities to get work visas - a policy which I find to be MINDBOGGLINGLY
stupid. Aren't those the EXACT kind of people that you'd want to stay in your
country?

------
neeson
Well this is interesting. Third story from the top is about how Reddit is
kickbanning a bunch of sites (e.g. the Atlantic) for nasty SEO, then a5seo
submits an Atlantic story, his history is full of submits by the Atlantic, and
he has steady stream of submissions with zero comments. Joke? Art? An SEOer
not paying attention?

~~~
anigbrowl
Yeah, I think OP owes us some explanation.

~~~
a5seo
I'm the OP. So here's the deal... I read The Atlantic daily. I actually wrote
a script to check their feed and score the stories via the sharedcount API and
email me the best-of-the-best.

If something is interesting to me and I believe it would be useful to other
startup hackers like me, I submit it. It's that simple.

If there's something to be gained from doing this (aside from hopefully
spurring an interesting discussion on HN), I'm not smart enough to figure out
what it is.

The people who are anti The Atlantic should re-read the posting guidelines
which describe as on-topic, "Anything that good hackers would find
interesting."

Interested in behavioral economics? Government policy that affects startups?
Human psychology that we should accommodate in our apps? Technology trends?
Yeah, I'm sorry to say but The Atlantic, Salon, Wired, etc. are some of the
best at covering that stuff.

If this content is no longer welcome on HN, we need to get a LOT more precise
about the Guidelines.

~~~
anigbrowl
Look, I like the Atlantic too, but your username looks a bit weird - SEO rubs
a lot of people on HN the wrong way.

~~~
a5seo
> SEO rubs a lot of people on HN the wrong way.

It's too bad. The bottom line is that what SEO means/does is pretty wide
ranging, and my idea of it (making content usable/understable for bots) is
very different from the dismissive circus caricature conjured by the masses.

But my bet is that I'll win the meaning battle in the long term. patio11 and
randfish are good examples of people who are moving the perception toward
reality.

For all of the people on HN who bitch about how MBA types have idiotic
stereotypes of programmers, it might be worth considering the view from our
own glass house.

------
cdooh
For us in Africa the more stupid the US is about immigrants the better because
you educate us on your money then send us back to build our countries.

------
anamax
One problem is that the "admit geniuses" folks keep tying that to "admit
everyone". The former has wide-spread support while the latter has wide-spread
opposition.

