
Bye Bye Ubuntu, a sad Christmas - slasaus
https://gist.github.com/4380430
======
ch0wn
My parents are on 12.04 and will be as long as the long term support lasts.
I'm pretty sure forcing them to use Windows would mean a lot of telephone
support for the next months. If anything, I would migrate them to another
distribution.

I also don't really dislike the Amazon ads. I'm not so much concerned about
privacy, but I find them very distracting and awfully implemented. However,
it's only one ``sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping``. That is not going
to make me change my default distribution.

~~~
hanula
Similar here, but Xubuntu (12.04). Old laptop previously running Ubuntu 9.04
which this time just worked out of the box. Everything they need. Internet
connectivity, browser, Skype (no webcam though). They are happy as it's enough
for them (parents over 60). New installation doesn't brake, no viruses, very
safe for them to work with it. I can't imagine giving them Windows (which will
not run smoothly on this laptop) worrying they will have lots of spyware,
viruses, etc. after few months.

On the other hand my personal laptop runs Arch with DWM. I don't look back at
Ubuntu for professional use. I'm so much happier.

------
garrynewman
It's pretty stupid to expect everything to just work. Your parents should have
grabbed the source code, learned how to program, deciphered the problem and
then fixed it themselves. Then they could have shared the code to help
everyone else's parents fix their problems.

Or just get them iPads.

------
neya
I'm so glad that someone is writing about this issue. It is important to
understand that 12.04 and 12.10 both SUCK.

Here's why: Previously I was on 10.04, the best thing that happened to me
ever. Boot speed was amazing and shutdown speed was the fastest among the
three OS'es I had then (Windows Vista, OSX, Ubuntu 10.04).

Then something happened. I purchased the Windows 8 Upgrade edition and I had
to partition my drives (because I wanted to) and I thought "you know what? Let
me upgrade my Ubuntu, it's been sometime since I upgraded it." I upgraded it
to 12.10 and I used it as my only OS before installing Windows 8 (because the
setup was corrupted and I had to re-download it).

It was a nightmare. Unity is a nightmare. Before using 12.10, I was on 11.x
and 12.04. I don't see why they have to thrust Unity onto your face.
Everything was really fine before Unity came.

Unity is one of the poorest experience one could ever experience on any
operating system. I'm not sure if it was inspired from some other OS, but
whatever it is, it's a poor implementation and clearly no proper research has
gone into designing Unity. For example, switching between open program windows
is a nightmare, if you have auto-hide enabled, it just gets worse. If you are
a developer, nothing could get even worse than trying to switch between a text
editor and a web browser, for instance.

Now to the core, the OS itself is painfully slow. Post installation of Windows
8, I compared the boot and shut down times of both the OS'es. I'm not
exaggerating here, but Windows 8 shuts down much much quicker than 12.10. The
only reason I loved Ubuntu was for its speed, let alone security. Now what
Canoncial has done is taken the only reason for me to use Ubuntu and
bastardized it as much as they could. Video drivers are another issue. Back on
10.04, I had to manually install Nvidia drivers myself, but it would work well
once installed. 12.10 just fucked it up big time. It would automatically try
to install something and you will have to spend sleepless nights trying to
remove it and install the correct driver only to realize that it wouldn't work
either!

I know you can bring back Gnome using some terminal commands, but the speed of
the OS itself is still slow. Try switching between tabs on Chrome, you'll
realize what I mean.

Ubuntu's target audience has always been developers and power users first, and
everyone else next. With Unity, they're _trying_ to push Ubuntu towards
general users, which will be a difficult task. Moving away from your target
audience to attract a newer audience is the worst strategy I could ever think
of.

Hence, here's another Bye-bye from me to Ubuntu. Hello Windows 8! (single
boot!).

~~~
PommeDeTerre
It saddens me that people who liked earlier Ubuntu releases jump straight to
Windows or OS X, without trying Debian or Linux Mint first.

They both offer the good parts of Ubuntu, without the junk and without the
poor experience.

~~~
neya
<http://linuxmint.com/>

If this is the official website of the distribution you're talking about, then
the site doesn't inspire confidence as much as the original Ubuntu site does.
Anyway, I'll give it a shot, thanks :)

~~~
FireBeyond
It's not the best website, certainly, and it's not the "perfect OS".

But Linux Mint, to me, has always been my favorite derivative of Ubuntu (as
someone who is not particularly keen on Ubuntu natively, and definitely
dislikes Unity).

~~~
christianmann
Linux Mint has moved away from Ubuntu, incidentally. It's now solely based on
Debian.

------
codva
I'm on Xubuntu 12.04 and don't seem to have any of these problems. Unlike
Windows, where you are stuck with the corporate decisions, Ubuntu still
provides many options if you don't like the flagship distro.

------
bbayer
That is what I thought for a while. I was really a Ubuntu fan since early
releases. I always encourage people to use Ubuntu. I am really disappointed
after last release because of this Amazon stuff.

I can understand, how hard to maintain this kind of software without any
revenue but in Linux world there were always good business models. Also Ubuntu
for Android is very good idea and I believe in near future we will be hearing
it so much.

While trying to expand market share, let's say trying to access more users,
making a move against user's liberty really hurts previously gained traction.
It was going good but now I am not sure how can I trust a Linux distro that
send my search terms to Amazon by default.

I don't want to be part of this anymore.

------
hippich
Recently I decided to play some game and had to boot windows partition which I
did not use from the date of laptop purchase. So I went through Windows clean
installation process and then it all started - scrolling on touchpad not
working, directx not working with pre-packaged drivers (had to download over
600 megs of video drivers - have no clue what take so much space.) While
downloading it, I browsed some news and got my Internet Explorer crashed - I
would not be surprised if this was some trojan stuff delivered through null-
sized iframe.

Since I do not have DVDROM, I had to find some ISO mounter. Again, downloading
megs of software from some website and hoping it is not packaged with some
trojan.

After installing this iso mounter, it asks me to install .NET framework. After
googling it - it says ~1 meg to download. Fine, downloading and running it
from microsoft website. After it run it starts downloading something else form
somewhere.... Done.

Video drivers downloaded - installing. Asks to reboot. Rebooting - blue screen
every time I restart machine.... In the end - whole evening was spent to play
single game and I end up with BSOD. Saying "FU" and return back to my Ubuntu
to continue coding.

After couple hours of coding my machine randomly freezes... this started to
happen after installing AMD proprietary drivers...

So two things I learned that evening: \- We are all screwed no matter what OS
we use! :) \- I need to buy xbox/ps/wii to play games :)

~~~
kevindication
You might also have a hardware problem.

~~~
jiggy2011
Yes, if you are getting actual BSOD under a recent version of Windows it is
almost always the result of a hardware problem.

Make a note of the error message at the top of the BSOD and google for it.

If you want to do some tests , download something called "Ultimate boot CD"
which is a boot disk with a combination of DOS and Linux based hardware test
programs. I've used it to find faulty memory on many a misbehaving system.

~~~
hippich
I am pretty sure it is not hardware problem since I am using it for
development and do all kinds of crazy stuff for last half a year. :) The thing
about windows - you get more support from hardware manufacturer, but you get
screwed by the fact it is all proprietary and often stuff from one
manufacturer is not working with software from different one. And due to
closed source approach there is no way to peek into it to see if it can be
fixed or there could be workaround.

Another gem from this fresh windows install - headphones will work only if I
boot into Windows while headphones are plugged in. If I boot without
headphones and then plug headphones after I log in - no sound in headphones :)

My point is - there are all kinds of bugs in all popular OSes. I bet MacOS
have bunch of them too. You just getting used to ones. Like it is never a
problem for me to fix a webcam in linux, but it frustrates me to download 600
megs of drivers software to get my video card functional. The same way OP
really frustrated by broken webcam and not really concerned about windows
needs to update drivers, constantly monitor for viruses, etc.

One thing I noted tho - most frustration with Ubuntu (or any really linux
desktop) I see comes the fact that some particular hardware is not working.
The same hardware often have problems on Windows platform. And more often than
not drivers/software for this hardware are closed source with bugs which never
get fixed (because manufacturer's business in selling hardware, not software.)
So apparently we would not have most of these issues with any OS if software
required to run hardware would be open sourced. This will never happen
probably tho..

~~~
jiggy2011
To be fair, most of those things you mentioned sound like issues individual
drivers rather than the OS. You are likely to have closed source drivers under
Linux too, a variety of GPUs and Wireless cards do not offer open source
drivers (or at least with full features).

You might not need 600MB of drivers for your video card, it's that the
manufacturer packages it with 600MB of software. On a modern HDD 600MB isn't
so much anymore.

BSOD really does overwhelmingly indicate some hardware failure, it is not
uncommon for a PC (especially one that is highly used) to develop failures
later in it's life. I would suspect common culprits to be your power supply,
memory or HDD.

~~~
hippich
Yeah, I totally agree that major problems comes from closed-sourced drivers.
And it doesn't matter what OS you use - Linux or Windows. MacOS it is a bit
easier since Apple controls both hardware and software. It is not a case with
PC platform in general.

------
bobdvb
For those saying "why not try Debian, mint, etc", I've been running my mother
on Debian for the past 18 months and it hasn't been at all easy and I am
starting to wonder if I shouldn't move her back to Windows. I gave her fairly
simple hardware (an Atom PC) with enough RAM and disk space. I migrated her to
Picassa and Libre Office. She's surviving but supporting is a little tedious,
there doesn't seem to be a convenient alternative to LogMeIn (any VNC requires
mapping ports on the router and teamviewer needs user intervention at the
target). I was also running Ubuntu with KDE on my main laptop at home but I
recently bought a new laptop and my wife was delighted that it came with
Windows 7 pre-installed. I haven't yet decided if Linux will go back on.
Possibly not.

So much in domestic Linux is unprofessional, that is why the professional
Linuxes command such money. Linux seems to remain a hobby system with similar
process control because it allows everything, if you don't constrain your
model then you can't ensure quality. For example: how much testing is done
against the kernel? I don't mean beta testing, how about instituting some
standards regime with unit testing and interface compliance measurement? Linux
depends almost entirely on peer code review, in critical parts that is
reviewed by 'experts' but it remains a manual process.

------
Elhana
How come researching hardware first is bad thing - you are not going to a shop
and buy first thing you see.

Also windows is not perfect either, my old scanner doesn't have windows 7
drivers and will never have it seems. It works just fine in XP and Linux.

Sometimes things break, they even break in software that cost shitloads of
money too. Six month old Oracle EBS SR with localization(!) problem - not
critical, but surely half a year is enough to swap two strings. Sometimes it
doesn't work well with some server vendor too (I don't know all details about
this one).

Don't blame canonical for all the software in the distro, all they really do
is adding eye candy and try to make it nicer, but they can't fix everything.

I find it silly when people try to force other people to migrate to Linux -
show them around, tell about ups and downs and let them decide if they want to
try it.

I use linux not because it open source, but because it does most of the stuff
I need better. My parents use windows PC, because they can just install that
thing which came with new printer and it works without calling me, despite I
could probably make it work in linux just as easy since I know how to.

And for God's sake, don't install linux if you play games most of the time,
but you read linux is better on the interwebz. Stop hammering nails with a
microscope already!

------
S4M
For fuck sake, please stop acting as if Ubuntu was the only Linux distro! Last
time I tested Bodhi Linux, I found it quite simple to use and yet not flashy.

------
ecaron
I'm encountering something similar this Christmas. We'd given my wife's
grandma a Chromebook - and it has died of its own accord after just 14 months.

After talking about the replacement, she nearly begged for a Windows or a Mac.
By name. This same woman that doesn't think she can run the microwave while
being on the cordless phone.

We (Linux, and I'm lumping ChromeOS into this albeit a different beast) aren't
going to win the marketing battle. With sites like Netflix not working on
Linux and "you'll get it if you try it for two weeks" UX mentality (looking at
you Unity), we're not going to win the experience battle - the only one where
we stood a shot. Short of a product that thoroughly feels superior we just
can't expect consumers to cope with a product just to "fight the [men]". And
until that happens, I (and I suspect many fellow nerds) are following this
round of the cycle and moving our families away from Linux (again, for now.)

~~~
jiggy2011
I don't know if it's so much about UI. For a total novice I'm not sure if
Unity would be harder to learn than say Windows 7, assuming unfamiliarity with
both.

It's really down to compatibility and of course with a more common OS there
are more friends and relatives that you can ask for help.

Compatibility with old software can be a big deal for some people too, for
example my mother struggles to understand why she can't just keep using the
same version of Wordperfect that she learnt in 1994.

------
a3_nm
Why move your parents to Windows rather than to some other Linux distribution?
(Fedora, Linux Mint, Debian...)

~~~
slasaus
There were also all these other complaints like "I've got this book about
photo editing from a friend of mine, can you install that software for me?"
where I have to say, no, sorry mom, that only works on Windows.

Same with watching video's of a certain TV-channel (Silverlight 4, not
supported by Monolight yet) and a dozen other things. Like I said, I always
had faith one day all (most) will be good. But now that I've lost this trust,
I feel all I can do is give in and no longer ask patience from them (with yet
another Linux distro).

~~~
mgkimsal
You say you started in 2009 - I'm assuming you started with linux a bit
earlier than that. I started using linux on the desktop in 1999 part time, and
moved 'full time' by ... 2003 I think.

I gave up around 2008. Gave up trying to migrate friends/family; gave up being
an evangelist. The number of things that wouldn't work on someone's hardware
was always greater than my ability to help/google/patch/whatever. And I got
sick of:

    
    
      1) works for me.
      2) research your hardware first(!)
      3) build your own machine
      4) this latest release version X "just works"
      5) other tired canards you've already heard.
    

I've no doubt that for some people, some distros 'just work'. They never did
for me.

Perhaps it was my hardware (the 6 different laptops and desktops I rotated
through during 5 years apparently just never hit that magical elusive sweet
spot of 'just working').

Perhaps my expectations were different - I'd like to have two different apps
running at the same time and both play sound at the same time - pidgin/gaim
would constantly lock the sound so that nothing else could play, causing no
sounds and sometimes crashes.

I've got other stories - everyone does - but got tired. I went mac full time
in 2008 and have a good balance of a system that lets me run osx with windows
and linux in virtual machines when I need them. It's certainly not perfect - I
have occasional crashes, that stupid beach ball, and I miss the FISH protocol
in Konqueror something mad. But... I get far more actual _work_ done on this
system than I ever did on Linux systems.

Other people will have opposite experiences - good for them - I just wish
people would quit blaming the "linux on the desktop" defectors as if they'd
done something 'wrong'. The only thing most of them did 'wrong' was to believe
the hype for too long.

~~~
slasaus
I largely agree, though I'm willing to research my hardware as long as I have
the idea we move in the right direction of software that is more stable and
intuitive to use (and where user liberties and rights are central).

I just got disappointed in the seemingly new direction of Canonical not
sharing my values. The vision and hope was exactly the energy I needed to
fight all the non-working stuff.

~~~
mgkimsal
I had wireless issues 10 years ago on laptops - things like "driver X works
with card foo version Y.ZZ". I went out and bought card foo, version Y.ZZ,
only to find it didn't work, and then would be told "well DUH, driver X
doesn't work with Revision D, only revisions A,C,B and F". Basically, stuff
that was impossible to find out before a purchase - laptop companies would
ship different revisions of the same card out, and just ship the appropriate
windows drivers on a CD - no linux drivers (of course).

I got way too tired of having to deal with that, and even moreso of people
replying "I've never had to deal with that - you were doing something wrong"
or even better "Oh, it's not like that any more". Yeah, it might _not_ be, but
I was also hearing that it wasn't like that _10 years ago_ , when clearly it
_was_ like that.

So... after a while, you become numb to the claims of fanboys who've been
using one linux distro for 9 months and think linux is the best thing ever and
"M$ sux" and all that, and you just get on doing your work with a platform
that fits your needs. When your needs change, and your platform can't meet
those needs anymore, fighting the platform to change when it won't doesn't
make sense.

------
xauronx
Good work. I understand the stance you were taking but it's equivalent to "I
think wooden bats are better for baseball, so I make my tee-baller use a
wooden bat." You were fighting the right fight but on the wrong field. Don't
let people make you feel bad. When it comes to an OS for a non-saavy family
member ease of use and keeping those phone calls at bay are the only things
that matter. Installing antivirus and running an anti-malware application when
you visit for holidays is much easier than the nagging calls. Also, Mom won't
get those weird looks in best buy when she asks the 16 year old girl if this
copy of Microsoft word runs on Ubuntu.

------
xradionut
I had the opposite experience. Notice the out-of-band patch that Microsoft
released Saturday? Yes, Viginia, if you run Windows, you better apply it and
update your malware scanners. I spent a small chuck of free time this weekend
scanning, cleaning and in vain before restoring from backup.

Vexed by the ease that malware slash through my defenses, I switched to
running Linux as the main OS on my laptop and every other OS as a VM. It's
amazing that Linux can deal with my hardware better than the OEM recovery
disk. And if I need to reinstall or migrate, I can just copy the VMs from
backup. I was using VMs on the other OSes, now Windows 7 joins the crowd.

------
w1ntermute
A lot of people doing this will quickly learn that Windows is not perfect
either. On my Windows box, Chrome regularly crashes, the NVIDIA driver control
software has a memory leak that causes it to balloon to using 3+ GB of memory,
and DirectX 10 didn't work at all (games crashed) until a recent update. There
are also intermittent problems with the screen going blank, requiring me to
Remote Desktop in and reboot the machine.

I would much rather have a bug in Ubuntu than in Windows. I had no way to fix
that DX 10 bug or communicate with the developers. I was just lucky that it
got fixed.

~~~
slasaus
I guess you're right, but not having to say "sorry, you're not on Windows so
that's why I can't make this software work for you (software from friends
etc.)" saves me a lot of explanations that an end-user isn't really interested
in.

~~~
w1ntermute
I usually give some explanation about how to open source is all about
"fighting the man". I know plenty of gamer friends who have bought Macs,
because they want to be hip. They put up with not being able to run all their
games on their Macs (no, Parallels and/or Boot Camp are not viable for these
people). You turn the lack of application choice on its head and make it seem
cool. This isn't a real "issue", since it happens with every OS. Even Windows
is missing software used by some "creative" types (or so they say).

And what I've found is that more and more stuff is on the Web now anyway, so
OS doesn't matter as much.

~~~
TillE
> They put up with not being able to run all their games on their Macs.

It's quite easy to install Windows with Bootcamp, though if you have an SSD,
space is an issue. If you're a remotely serious gamer, you're surely enough of
a nerd to handle dual booting.

The problem is that every [desktop] OS is crap. I've been attempting to use
various Linux distros in that role for over a decade, and I've yet to have an
experience that wasn't riddled with bugs and annoyances. Windows 7 is
generally the least frustrating option, though OS X has cool features to
compensate for its own issues.

------
foolme
It's sad to see what ubuntu have become.

~~~
nical
I would rather say that it is sad to see Ubuntu going in a direction that
doesn't align with your tastes/needs. I personally think Ubuntu is better
today than ever before (for the most part).

~~~
4ad
Personally I think Linux on the desktop is in a far worse shape than it was 12
years ago. Sure, _Linux_ works much better on laptops then it used to, but
what good is that since the software provided by _distributions_ is less
stable and of a lower quality then it was 12 years ago. It's all anecdotal
evidence, but I've had far more success 10 years ago introducing Linux to non-
so-technical users, previously exposed only to Windows 95/98, by using a
default Gnome/KDE environment then I'm having now introducing them to recent
versions of Unity/KDE/Gnome.

Linux became worse when the commercial alternatives only got better.

This website under Chrome under Ubuntu 12.10 (Unity):
<http://i.imgur.com/oUTwi.png>

This website under Chrome under Mac OS X 10.8.2:
<http://i.imgur.com/UwTl8.png>

This is completely unacceptable as a default experience.

(edit: grammar; screenshots)

------
raverbashing
Yes

And the worse thing is that Ubuntu is moving away from 'common users' BUT ALSO
away from 'traditional linux users'

Sincerely, it's been getting worse and worse by every release. Under the
banner of 'making it more user friendly', they're adding more useless clutter,
more 'funny pictures' but have no clear direction or desktop concept.

Yes, I believed it was going to be great as well.

I am much more productive in a linux distro with XFCE/IceWM, half of
'infrastructure' turned off (network manager, pulseaudio, etc) or I just go
with Mac OS X

------
deanclatworthy
Those people who claim Ubuntu is ready for parents, brothers, sister, and
those with little computer experience to use are kidding themselves. I
understand the work that has to go into supporting devices that don't ship
with nix drivers, but the amount of issues I've encountered as a slightly
experienced Linux user puts _me_ off, let alone anyone who hasn't a clue about
the stuff you need to perform on command line.

I completely agree with OP.

------
odranoelson
Out of curiosity: you gave Windows 7 to your parents, what are you using right
now? Another flavour of linux?

I find apt-get and the huge amount of troubleshooting information available
the main reasons I'm still using (K)ubuntu. I have tried other distros but
always came back...

~~~
slasaus
I have a netbook with Ubuntu myself but only use it on holidays.

I'm using OS X as my main OS. I did try Ubuntu but really got crazy of the bad
multitouch support (hovering over the touchpad was seen as a click, so I
constantly lost the focus of my terminal while typing and having my palms near
the touchpad)

So I'm waiting for good multitouch support for my Macbook Air and mayne switch
then (not that sure anymore but I do have a little hope for those following
Ubuntu's moves closely and the ability of apt-get like you pointed out).

------
Shorel
I downloaded Ubuntu 12.10 by mistake. Nothing worked that were not already
included in the DVD.

I then downloaded Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and all my hardware (with the proprietary
AMD driver) and preferred software (Opera, Blender, Skype) works there.

Lesson learned.

------
code_chimp
Why not Kubuntu or straight Debian? I remember a few problems when KDE went
Plasma on us, but they pretty quickly worked out the kinks and we have been
pretty happy with Kubuntu for several years now.

------
lake99
Bye bye Linux! Hello viruses, trojans, and ever-increasing bloat!

~~~
klibertp
This is so unfair...

Viruses, trojans and bloat are not a part of Windows, it is what users make of
their systems. I use both FreeBSD and Windows (as desktops) and I haven't had
an issue with any of them for the last two years.

~~~
mattdeboard
It's not really "unfair", imo. It's obvious the GP poster is just
regurgitating some garbage he heard somewhere else without doing any critical
thought.

~~~
lake99
The most absurd things seem "obvious" to you. What is obvious is that you have
not had to support friends who keep getting viruses, keep running out of free
space on their massive disks, keep complaining about slower and slower
performance.

~~~
mattdeboard
But that's not the fault of the OS. That's the fault of the user.

~~~
slasaus
I tend to develop more and more by the "it's never the users fault" pragma in
order to build software that is perceived as "it just works".

------
d--b
It's always been the same story. Of course you shouldn't give Linux to your
parents...

~~~
w1ntermute
My parents have been running Ubuntu since 2008, when I finally got tired of
uninstalling spyware. It's been running like a charm ever since. Once Unity
came out, I moved them to Xubuntu and never looked back. I do a clean install
every year or two of the latest version.

The trick is to use compatible hardware. I gave them my old ThinkPads.

~~~
slasaus
Maybe a full reinstall gives less regressions than upgrading, but I didn't
have the time to do full reinstalls.

~~~
w1ntermute
Oh, that's the most likely cause of your problems then. There are all kinds of
issues with upgrading Ubuntu installs. I always do a clean install for that
reason, never an upgrade.

------
darec1
So. Your updating your parents to a now obsolete operating system? Why not
Windows 8?

~~~
slasaus
For what I've read Windows 8 flourishes on tablets but can be a bit
annoying/split minded when controlled by a mouse. This combined with the fact
that most businesses will probably skip Windows 8 and stay with/move to 7
gives me the trust it will be maintained for a while.

~~~
ditoa
That is a pretty spot on summary of Windows 8. I use it on a laptop (no touch
screen) and really like it but it can be a little bit disjointed to use.
Saying that I never use any of the Metro (Modern UI) apps and uninstalled them
all as soon as I installed Windows 8. They are not the kind of applications I
want to use on a general purpose computer. A tablet? Yeah ok but not with a
mouse. The 'old' desktop way of doing things is far better than the new way
for 'old' input devices.

------
3amOpsGuy
This story stinks, what an obnoxious sense of entitlement.

How dare they break YOUR webcam, and why should you invest untold hours in
learning how to contribute and then fixing it.

World on a plate with no effort to give back? Meh.

~~~
skrebbel
Nonsense. The "it's open source, fix it yourself" argument only holds if your
target audience is developers.

Ubuntu is intended to (also) target non-powerusers. They intend to be a
competitor to other "normal people" OSes such as OSX and Windows. The fact
that they give it away for free is entirely Canonical's own choice, and it
does not magically take away users' right to criticize them.

Canonical puts a product in the market with claims to certain qualities, such
as openness but also ease of use. The OP feels that some of these qualities
have disappeared, and chooses a different OS for that reason. How is that
obnoxious?

~~~
3amOpsGuy
Straw man.

