

Reddit founder aims to build bat signal for the Internet  - alagu
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/05/25/reddit-founder-and-activists-aim-to-build-a-bat-signal-for-the-internet/

======
jerf
This is a great idea, but on the off chance they read this, it _must_ stay
focused.

A very common mistake on the internet is to see a group interested in some
topic, and to mistake the group for the mass of individuals that make it up,
to think that the group itself has some sort of individual ontological
existence, and that the individuals are somehow stuck to this "group" thing.
If this experiences any success at all, calls will be issued by the hundreds
to take this platform and group of people and get them to do something else.
Perhaps even something nice sounding. And if you give in, you will in mere
minutes destroy the entire thing, because there isn't actually an entity that
can be led around... instead, there is a whole bunch of individuals who will
rapidly and correctly conclude this thing is no longer what they signed up
for, if they wanted a general advocacy group they'd do something else, and the
whole thing will dissolve in a puff of smoke.

It's a great idea, but it needs to stay laser-focused on the Internet freedom
issues that created it, and nothing else. No matter how tempting. You can not
take the resulting group and use it like a handle to move people's opinions
around in any direction.

~~~
milesskorpen
I could imagine allowing users to opt into certain kinds of campaigns -- an
"I'm interested in: [] Internet freedom [] Reproductive rights [] African
warlords," or alternatively allow certain organizations / sponsors to control
usage: "I'm open to issues promoted by: [] ACLU [] EFF [] NRA"

~~~
fragsworth
This is a potentially huge idea. Allowing users to create and choose topics of
activism they care about, and voluntarily sign up for email alerts, provide
ways to promote their topics, etc. - this could be something people really
want.

~~~
smsm42
Not really new - facebook has causes, I'm sure every other social platform has
something alike. The problem is that most people don't care enough for most
issues interest groups promote. SOPA was an exception because it was
exceptionally bad idea. However as soon as it turns from exception to politics
as usual, it would get the same amount of attention politics usually gets. No
less, but also no more. Whoever is politically active/involved already gets
such kinds of alerts from the sources he is affiliated with. Whoever is not,
won't read them except in, well, exceptional cases.

------
xd
Being from Britain, the term "Internet Defence League" just conjures up images
of the "English Defense League" :/

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Defence_League>

~~~
kmfrk
Yeah, I don't live in Britain, but as a European, it still has some really bad
connotations.

------
kamens
"He cites an idea that he attributes to Cheezburger Network chief executive
Ben Huh, that every Internet user should have their legislators’ phone numbers
saved on their cell phone and ready to use on a regular basis."

@jasonrr and I built a (free) app for this
([http://shipordie.com/post/15463322294/contact-congress-
talk-...](http://shipordie.com/post/15463322294/contact-congress-talk-
directly-to-your)). I can confirm that once you have your congress critters on
your phone's speed dial, you wonder why this wasn't always the case.

------
Dirlewanger
Oh look, a more convenient way to commit slackivism! Now you don't even have
to pay attention to what's going on in the world, just wait to receive an
email with instructions!

I expected better from someone in his position. Why not use his influence to
galvanize people into effecting change by getting involved in the political
process? This slackivist crap isn't going to work every time a major bill is
on the cusp of passing in either legislature.

~~~
crusso
Do we all really need to devote our entire lives to following bullshit
politics?

Can't we just give some people we trust for now a little smite authority? Then
when they see government colluding with big business to take away our
liberties they hit the big red button?

In the meantime, is it really that evil for the rest of us to get back to our
friends, families, hobbies, spiritual pursuits, and such?

I say this as a person who spends his non-working time watching political news
shows... but that's because it interests me. Seems a shame that the default
economical/political/internet framework isn't one that gravitates toward
liberty and eschews those who try to grab power over our lives.

~~~
smsm42
If one doesn't want to follow politics, one should not complain that people
who do follow politics beat you at it and make it according to their
interests. Somehow people have no trouble following latest exploits of some
Hollywood starlets, latest developments of TV soap operas or the intimate
details of the careers of their favorite sports personality, but when it comes
to things that directly influence their lives, their prosperity and their
liberty - they don't want to know shit, just give them some red button and let
somebody else decide when to push it, anything more is demanding too much.
That doesn't work if you want to have liberties. Society of free men can not
be built by only delegating your civic responsibilities to somebody else.
Otherwise pretty soon it would turn out you are not free anymore but
completely dependent on those to whom you delegated your responsibilities.

~~~
crusso
> can not be built by only delegating your civic responsibilities to somebody
> else

I'm not suggesting we "only" delegate our civic responsibilities. I'm saying
that every citizen shouldn't have to make politics his life's study and sole
devotion in order to not get screwed out of his liberties.

Otherwise, our society's only point is to bicker endlessly about politics.
What a sad society indeed.

------
feralmoan
It would be a more credible initiative without the insular, indignant reddit
circle jerk attached to it. yaddyadda-Defense League? Bat-signal-in-the-shape-
of-an-internet-cat? Really, take this seriously? No.

~~~
kitsune_
We are living in times where comic book movies dominate popular culture. It's
a great and prudent way to engage younger people. You call it insular, but
"serious" organizations such as the EFF already signed up for it.

By the way, the stalwart of free software named his pet project after an
African antelope. Linux uses a penguin as a mascot, BSD a cartoon devil.
Github has a cartoon "octocat", half octopus, half cat.

------
toemetoch
I would like to suggest that he looks at how real immune systems [0] operate:
layered, decentralized, innate and adaptive immunity, ... Some of these
properties already conflict with the comments in this thread.

[0] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immune_system>

~~~
smsm42
Immune systems are also prone to serious problems - see autoimmune diseases,
for example, or problems with transplants, organ donations, etc.

~~~
toemetoch
If he looks at his bat-signal is a synthetic immune system he'll be able to
anticipate common pitfalls. I fear that in a few months/quarters the bat-
signal will be gamed or beaten by a mechanism that could have easily be
avoided. Meta-moderation, for example, is also a primitive immune system that
is prone to auto-immunity issues.

------
joejohnson
This seems ironic. In protest of internet censorship legislation (some of
which intends to create an "internet kill-switch"), website owners can opt-
into a system where their website can be temporarily blacked out (albeit, with
a protest message).

~~~
nostromo
That was the original point actually.

It was a way to make the dangers of the law immediately tangible to regular
internet users.

~~~
alttab
If we instrument it ourselves, we can use it to galvanize action before its
too late. Human nature and technology.

But I can also fully understand why other commenters here at HN have opinions
about how Reddit builds community.

------
gouranga
I think a better approach is killing core routers.

Governments won't listen to a few people whinging unless it costs them
something.

It will cost them a lot if people cannot access their online services.

------
swombat
My response (I'm signing swombat.com up to this "even though I'm not
american"): <http://swombat.com/2012/5/26/bat-signal>

------
antithesis
Footnote: ACTA is in fact older than SOPA.

------
aresant
On the conversion side seems like they should include a "What will the alert
look like?" or let us know if we can customize the alert itself on the site up
front.

I get why they're using the cat but lots of sites that I think would host this
may be turned off by the format?

------
Drbble
Why link to Forbes and not the original source?

~~~
swombat
Because Forbes gives a lot of additional background and external validation to
the story...

Why link to a story about the latest SpaceX exploits rather than directly to
the SpaceX website?

------
adventureful
All that will accomplish is to dumb people down even further. Automated
activism, isn't activism. If you sign on without knowing specifically what
you're fighting for in any given instance, all you've done is prostitute your
voice.

------
xbryanx
Am I the only super-internet-nerd who hates cats?

------
cmer
Looks like he's giving them the finger! I assume not intentional but still
funny.

