
The US Secret Service mistook a cyberpunk RPG for a hacker's handbook - molecule
https://www.dicebreaker.com/categories/roleplaying-game/feature/gurps-cyberpunk-rpg-us-secret-service
======
pmoriarty
This is a charming time capsule from a more innocent age, when us geeks could
chortle smugly at how clueless government security agencies were about
technology.

Since then, with the advent of the likes of Stuxnet, the NSA's ubiquitous
surveillance apartus, and the Great Firewall of China, we've been taught a
hard lesson that governments are perfectly capable of developing technology
expertise or contracting it out, if need be.

It's even a truism now that computer defence against a well funded nation
state is hopeless. This was not the case back in the old Steve Jackson Games
days, when it seemed that the entirety of computer power rested in the hands
of a relatively small number of idealist academics.

Rember John Perry Barlow's _A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace_?

 _" Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel,
I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask
you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no
sovereignty where we gather."_

What once sounded almost like prophecy has come to sound more like a sad,
deluded joke.

~~~
chrisseaton
> against a well funded nation state

Why do people specifically state 'nation state' in these circumstances? What
do you think makes a nation state a particularly notable adversary relative to
countries which aren't nation states like the UK or the US, which seem to have
more capability in this area not less?

~~~
antepodius
When people say country, they mean the whole decentralised group of people,
and the physical area, and a bunch of other stuff.

When they say nation state, the mean a government.

~~~
throw_away
Why don't they just say 'a government', then? The only other rationale I can
think of is that 'nation state' sounds much cooler and cyberpunk.

~~~
dreamcompiler
Because cities, provinces, and states (as in one of the 50 comprising the
United States) all have governments, and most of them do not have the
resources for an international cyber-attack. Nation-states are by definition
country-level governments.

~~~
chrisseaton
No, nation states are states which are also nations. For example Japan is a
nation state but the UK is not.

~~~
sterlind
Specifically, nation states set their own foreign policy and have their own
military. Usually APTs are associated with military or intelligence agencies,
which only nation states have, though some (e.g. the Bears in Russia) aren't
formally tied to the government (as much as being allowed to make money on the
side.)

I favor APTs as a term, since it denotes any actor with lots of technical
means and a political/strategic rather than financial agenda. Many APTs belong
to nation states, but that's not always true!

------
maerF0x0
The whole country has been made criminal by over policing and security
theatre. [https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent-
eb...](https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent-
ebook/dp/B00505UZ4G) comes to mind.

------
jfalcon
aka: Operation Sundevil -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sundevil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sundevil)

which was actually a multi-year hacker crackdown in the early 1990's.

 _-pours one out for all the homies-_

~~~
ObsoleteNerd
They were definitely interesting times. Ripe for a documentary on all of the
ridiculousness.

To a large extent, it never really ended.

~~~
njharman
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hacker_Crackdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hacker_Crackdown)

~~~
ObsoleteNerd
Great book, but I was more thinking along the lines of all the absolutely
insane nightly news clips and TV stuff talking about how hackers can basically
destroy the world if they’re even allowed to touch a computer etc.

The media were absolutely rabid through most of the 80s and early 90s. I
distinctly remember them acting like hackers were worse than terrorists, worse
than anything humanity had ever had to deal with.

Looking back, it’s almost funny, except many lives were ruined and hackers
raided and/or imprisoned because of media hype and fear.

------
vmarshall23
Not really on topic, but Steve Jackson has made great games for years:
[http://www.sjgames.com/](http://www.sjgames.com/)

~~~
CapricornNoble
I've been digging into GURPS Vehicles for worldbuilding. What a great system.

------
ineedasername
It's kind of funny how outsider's looked on RPGs. On the one hand in this
example law enforcement saw a computer/hacker themed game and thought it was a
real pathway to that activity.

Then on the other end of the RPG spectrum, Fantasy based RPGs that dealt with
magic, supernatural, demons, etc were similarly taken seriously by some in the
religious community as actual guides to such activity.

Are there any RPG topics I'm missing here that had the same type of treatment
from their respective antogonists believing the RPG content authentic
material?

~~~
hutzlibu
Then on the other end of the RPG spectrum, Fantasy based "RPGs that dealt with
magic, supernatural, demons, etc were similarly taken seriously by some in the
religious community as actual guides to such activity."

But there is a transition in both areas from just RPG to reality. People
playing cyberpunk hackers often want to be able to hack and crack in the real
world. And some games did at least teach some basic concepts about hacking.

And from the fantasy area lots of people got into real paganism, witchcraft,
occultism. (even though no one did succesfully invocated a major demon as far
as I know ...)

~~~
pferde
"(even though no one did succesfully invocated a major demon as far as I know
...) "

There's a Trump joke in there somewhere. :)

~~~
hutzlibu
Well ... possible, but do you know Illuminatus! from Shea and Wilson?

Well, in that book(from 1975), there is an old demon trapped in the pentagon.
And when terrorists blew a hole in the pentagon, he came out ... so, 9/11? And
the ever lasting war on terror that followed? In other words Trump would be
just a minor puppet of the grand demon behind ...

------
rizumu
A discussion with Steve Jackson on the 20th anniversary of the raid:
[http://www.sjgames.com/SS/](http://www.sjgames.com/SS/)

------
caymanjim
This was obviously an overreaction, and 30 years on, the Secret Service looks
laughably incompetent, but it isn't that outlandish in context. Blankenship
was in Legion of Doom, which was deeply inside critical computer systems for
most of the 80s, including banks, military facilities, telcos, and other vital
infrastructure. They published and disseminated how-to guides for infiltrating
systems, and they were active on underground BBS systems. Blankenship may have
moved away from illicit activities, but he still communicated with the same
people, and SJG's BBS was swarming with elite hackers.

Yeah, the Secret Service should have been savvy enough to figure out that it
was a harmless game, but they were still playing catch-up. Given Blankenship's
history and the cross-section of criminal hackers and the SJG BBS, it doesn't
surprise me that they raided them.

During the glory days of 80s hacking, groups like LoD and a handful of others
had access to things that would scare the hell out of the public today.
Imagine what a huge news story it would be today if it was announced that a
single group of hackers had access to systems that control power grids,
telcos, credit bureaus, banks, military bases, and all manner of other
corporate and government entities. That's really what it was like back then; a
bunch of teenagers infiltrating everything plugged in.

Most hackers back then were just exploring and learning. I'm not suggesting
that Blankenship or LoD did anything all that nefarious; they certainly
weren't out to bring the system down, and they didn't take advantage of their
access for any financial gain that I'm aware of (discounting theft of services
to the tune of a few hundred thousand dollars worth of phreaked phone calls).

It's a funny story about an interesting time. I'm inclined to cut the gov't a
little slack for overreacting because the potential for harm (from hackers)
was high, even if few of them harmed anything. If Blankenship had been a known
criminal in meatspace, and was hanging out with his criminal buddies at their
social club, you might not be surprised if the feds raided them once in a
while.

~~~
loydb
> SJG's BBS was swarming with elite hackers.

Untrue. The BBS the hackers all hung out on was the one I ran called the
Phoenix Project. There may have been a couple of people who were also gamers
that hung out on IO, but they were there for the dice.

Source: Hi, I'm Loyd.

~~~
caymanjim
Hi Loyd! I didn't mean that imply that IO itself was a hotbed of hacker
activity, but rather that there was a large number of hackers on it, due to
the intersection of hackers and tabletop gamers. My comment does come off as
hyperbolic.

I'm not sure if you and I ever interacted back in the 80s, but it's possible.
I was active on lutz, QSD, and a bunch of more closed systems/BBSen whose
names escape me. I wasn't a member of any group, but ended up deep into that
scene and others related to NYC's 2600 scene (MoD and other affiliates).

Right around when SJG was raided, the home of our tabletop gaming group's GM
was raided, primarily for more pedestrian phreaking and wardialing activity. I
managed to avoid ever getting into any legal trouble myself, although I don't
know how.

It was a fun time to be a hacker. Ultimately, despite thinking of myself as a
badass cyberpunk cowboy, I was just in it for the Unix. Between the
availability of GNU/Linux (obviating the need to break into other systems for
a Unix fix), the spread of Internet availability (obviating the need to phreak
and hack into X.25/Internet gateways), other legal venues, and being busy in
college, I got out of the scene in the early 90s.

------
trollied
Things were different before the internet was a big thing.

Did anyone else find a BBS file or get passed a disk copy of Jolly Rogers
Cookbook back in the day? Something that seemed so innocent at the time has
got people locked up for terrorism offences recently.

------
neurobashing
I’ve noticed that Cyberpunk games REALLY lean on the mainframe, “hack the
Gibson” model, and it turned out to not be how it all turned out. A few recent
cpunk RPGs (Carbon 2185 comes to mind) basically ignore deckers/netrunners.
I’ve been noodling some ideas but everything is off in terms of balance or fun
at the table.

~~~
scbrg
I haven't kept up to date with recent RPG:s, but I played Cyberpunk 2020,
GURPS Cyberpunk and a few local non English equivalents back in the day quite
a bit. The main problem with deckers/netrunners wasn't how (un)realistic they
were - but that they were simply... _boring_. It's an enforced split party
model where one player has a very limited role and virtually no interaction
with others.

I can see why modern games (hopefully wise from the mistakes of their
predecessors) ignore that part.

~~~
acdha
I was thinking about that while playing that recent Shadowrun cRPGs: you’re
right on with the boredom factor. It added a separate combat system which was
both obviously not how it’d really work and not more fun than the primary
system.

I disagree a little on the split-party aspect but that requires careful DMing:
it can be an interesting goal to synchronize real-world activities or need to
protect someone who is completely exposed while they work. If you don’t
overuse that and have a good mechanic for why the hacker needs to be in the
combat zone it can work, but it’s easy to fall short.

------
sbisson
As documented (among other events) in Bruce Sterling's _The Hacker Crackdown_.
The book is online here in various formats: [https://github.com/bdesham/the-
hacker-crackdown](https://github.com/bdesham/the-hacker-crackdown)

------
webel0
> ate jelly beans off someone's desk.

Bush might have been President but this was Reagan-era stuff.

------
karmicthreat
Hah! This is what originally got me interested in learning to program at 12 or
13.

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dunsany
Yeah, anyone remember this book about it?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hacker_Crackdown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hacker_Crackdown)

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protomyth
They put out a game called Hackers[1] that was inspired by the raid. Its a
pretty fun game, but it does inspire some ribbing and directly adversarial
moves. The currently ahead player is called the "Net Ninja". Our group called
the currently losing player "Net Poser" (thanks Tom). That set the correct
attitude at the table.

1)
[http://www.sjgames.com/hacker/deluxe/](http://www.sjgames.com/hacker/deluxe/)

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anikan_vader
I can't be the only one who finds it disturbing to abbreviate the Secret
Service as the SS.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Ironically enough they're probably the branch of federal law enforcement that
has that comparison made the least frequently.

Compared to ATF, FBI, DHS, ICE, etc, the Secret Service seems to run a pretty
tight ship. When you hear about them doing dumb things it's usually just
unprofessional shenanigans as opposed to completely neglecting to do their
jobs properly and killing or imprisoning people in the process which is what
the others are known for.

~~~
thephyber
Note that the a Secret Service, ATF and ICE are all sub-departments within
DHS, although there was talk as recently as this month to move Secret Service
back to Treasury Dept. It does seem clear that some of these departments have
lesser tarnished reputations than, say, CBP (which generally struggles to
recruit anyone literate, let alone the standards of the FBI or Secret
Service).

------
codesections
Rick Cook's book Wizardry Quested (2002) depicted a fictionalized version of
this raid/resulting lawsuit — I had no idea it was so closely based on a true
story!

------
tempodox
> The Secret Service agents ... ate jelly beans off someone's desk.

I would sue the government for the unlawful acquisition of jelly beans.

~~~
loydb
They also put a quarter-million copies through the crazy expensive (at the
time) laser jet printer that I'd just bought a few months prior, paying over
$3,000. They kept it for 4 years, 364 days, the longest they could legally
hold on to it without charging me with anything.

------
pg_is_a_butt
I ran an online multiplayer drug dealing game in the 90s similar to dope wars.
The DEA contacted me to let me know they spent a month investigating me, and
that it was probably not smart for me to do something like that, but that a
lot of the agents were playing the game and enjoying it and I was cleared.

~~~
perl4ever
I read about something the other day where someone had a bag labeled "big bag
of drugs" or something like that, and it was in fact full of drugs. But it was
actually a commercial product intended to be ironic.

This is why the police are always going to seem dumb and literal, because if
something is "obviously" a joke, it can be used as cover, and even if most
criminals are more conventional, it will look particularly bad if they ignore
something obvious when it was real.

------
mgarfias
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