

Asia's new aristocrats - dangoldin
http://www.economist.com/node/17929037?story_id=17929037

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contravert
This story reminds me of my experience. I immigrated from China at a young
age, but the impression I got from my family is that even in the 70s, 80s, and
90s, people were almost universally poor. I remember my dad telling me that
even if you had the money, buying a television or refrigerator required
connections.

My father and mother both came from rural areas, where mud huts were not
uncommon. Even in China, my dad didn't eat rice until he was in his teens. My
father did extremely well on the national exams and managed to get into a
university with most of his expenses paid by the socialist system at the time.
After getting a PHD, he immigrated to the US with me.

Having visited China a few times with my family, I met some quite successful
businessmen, all of whom have humble roots in poor countryside villages. Some
of them didn't even graduate from elementary school, but due to connections
with the government (the military for example), they managed to start
businesses and acquire factories during the time of China's economic growth.

There are a lot of rag-to-riches stories in China, but at the same the time,
the sheer size of the population means that there are even more stories of
poverty. In my father's family, only he and one of his brothers out of a
family of 6 or 7 managed to escape the rural area. Although life is getting
better even in the rural areas, it seems there is a massive difference between
the skyscrapers of Shanghai and a traditional farming village.

~~~
theoneill
_Even in China, my dad didn't eat rice until he was in his teens._

What did he eat?

~~~
contravert
He said that he mainly ate sweet potato or yam (I'm not really sure of the
difference).

------
gnufied
I am surprised no one is talking about "hukou" system? Heck, I didn't know
that!

In India obviously we do not have anything like that, but there is a hint of
resentment towards outside people who throng cities for jobs. North Indians
were beaten up in Mumbai. You will hear faint _sigh_ of a Bangalorean, how
city has lost its culture and beauty. A Bank clerk in Chennai - for example
can no longer afford auto rickshaw fair.

~~~
garply
Learning about the hukou system disturbed me at first, but the longer I live
in Beijing, the more I approve of the system in some form. There are too many
people here. Live with Beijing's traffic for a couple of years, or push more
people than you can imagine can fit into a crowded subway train. There are not
enough resources to go around. How would you deal with it?

~~~
kevinskii
Perhaps deporting you to the countryside would be one small first step. Or is
restriction of personal freedom only okay when it isn't applied to you?

~~~
Charuru
Wut? hukou is just a citizenship system. Much like how mexicans just can't
wander into the US, or Chinese can't wander into Korea. Every country operate
the same way, just that in China it's more local because of its feudal history
persisted longer.

------
bediger
Help out a poor, ignorant American: what's a "social class"? One of the
Gazillionaires mentions that "everyone in his social class" lost someone they
knew in the Mumbai terrorist attack. In 25 words or less, what's a "social
class"?

~~~
retube
Oh come on, I know everyone in the US is judged by where they're going, not
where they're from, but you do have the concept of working and middle classes
right?

~~~
bediger
Not so much. Almost everyone claims to be "middle class", the definition is so
vague as to be meaningless. People who are obviously very, very well off claim
middle class status.

Only a very few would claim "working class" status, and typically, that's
claimed for ideological reasons, not actual tradesman or craftsman membership.

~~~
hugh3
... but you obviously understand the concept then, and that it may apply more
readily to India?

~~~
noblethrasher
I think he was wondering what the concept means to Indians since the
referenced phrase is not at all idiomatic for U.S. English. Upon my initial
reading, I wondered whether or not it referred to a caste.

~~~
bediger
Thank you! That clarifies what I meant, as I was indeed struck by the "social
class" phrase as out of place or something.

------
smysore
What's interesting in India is that you'll often find a slum right next to a
super luxurious hotel like the Oberoi or the Taj. I've never been able to
understand why squatting "sticks" there but not here (I've seen police trying
to "clean up" the slums -- you'd think the violence would scare people away).

~~~
gnufied
Because it is political. Besides I find nothing strange about a slum next to a
5 star hotel, but I am an Indian. :)

~~~
yummyfajitas
In a country with rule of law and transferable property rights (most of the
western world), one would expect market forces to prevent this. Underutilized
land (such as a slum) would be purchased from it's owners by investors hoping
to make more efficient use of it. Both parties would wind up richer because of
the transaction.

The phenomena of nontransferable property rights exists only in a few parts of
the US, so most Americans are unfamiliar with it. NY is one such place -
claims on public housing or occupancy in a rent control apartment are a form
of property rights (it's very difficult to deprive you of them) which is not
transferable. NY is also one of the rare places where we have land used by
very rich people directly adjacent to land hugely underused by it's occupants
[1].

Most of the US is better run than NY, so phenomena like this are absent from
most people's experience.

[1] Most of the value of the land is caused by it's proximity to institutions
like GS or Bloomberg, but the lower middle class occupants of public housing
and retirees living in rent controlled apartments do not make use of this
proximity. Thus, the land is underused.

------
malnourish
So can we conclude that parts of Asia, primarily China and India, are
experiencing what the US went through in the early-mid parts of the 20th
century?

A development of the middle class and a wider gap between said middle class
and the upper class?

------
javanix
_Some Indian gazillionaires are flashy_

I wasn't really expecting to read the word "gazillionaires" in an economist
article. Has to mark some sort of a first for the publication.

