
“May You Live in Interesting Times” - Anon84
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/12/18/live/
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dwohnitmok
There's a somewhat closer Chinese saying from Mencius, although it is not at
all a curse and is advocating non-ironically for an "interesting" life.

生于忧患，而死于安乐也

In troubles and worry is there life. In peace and satisfaction is there death.

Yes by that sentence alone there's some ambiguity; it could be by living in
troubles and worry [you shall] die in peace and satisfaction, but the
preceding sentence in the work makes me lean away from that interpretation:
出则无敌国外患者，国恒亡 (if from without there are no opposing nations to worry about,
then a country inevitably dies).

EDIT:

The whole preceding passage from the Mencius is an interesting paean to
struggle.

故天将降大任于斯人也，必先苦其心志，劳其筋骨，饿其体肤，空乏其身，行拂乱其所为，所以动心忍性，曾益其所不能。

人恒过，然后能改。困于心，衡于虑，而后作；征于色，发于声，而后喻。

A rough translation:

Thus when Heaven is about to place such an important mission on the shoulders
of these people, it first must hardship their hearts, tire their sinews and
bones, famish their skin and flesh, impoverish their bodies, and foil their
actions. Through this Heaven can move their hearts and impart patience upon
their personalities, thereby improving their weaknesses.

Humans shall always make mistakes, but afterwards they can improve. They shall
be hindered in their hearts and confounded in their thoughts. Afterwards shall
they spring to action. They shall wear this pain on their face and express it
with their speech. Afterwards shall they understand [or perhaps be
understood].

~~~
schoen
This reminds me slightly of the passage in Cicero of which the "lorem ipsum"
text is a mangled version.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum#Source_text](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum#Source_text)

(but I'm not sure that the philosophical position advocated is _that_ similar)

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rdiddly
Here's an unexpected gem, from John Francis Davis: “The Chinese: A General
Description of the Empire of China and Its Inhabitants” (1836):

 _The Chinese have lived so much in peace, that they have acquired by habit
and education a more than common horror of political disorder. “Better be a
dog in peace than a man in anarchy,” is a common maxim. “It is a general
rule,” they say, “that the worst of men are fondest of change and commotion,
hoping that they may thereby benefit themselves; but by adherence to a steady,
quiet system, affairs proceed without confusion, and bad men have nothing to
gain.”_

Kind of says something about our beloved "disruption."

EDIT: Awww, boo hoo!

~~~
monocasa
>“It is a general rule,” they say, “that the worst of men are fondest of
change and commotion, hoping that they may thereby benefit themselves; but by
adherence to a steady, quiet system, affairs proceed without confusion, and
bad men have nothing to gain.”

Chaos is a ladder.

~~~
bhouston
The Shock Doctine by Naomi Klein sort of talks about that.

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frogpelt
And Gandhi did not say "Be the change you want to see in the world."

Instead, he apparently said:

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to
be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the
tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so
does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery
supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not
wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi

But did he say it in English? I don't know.

~~~
jackbravo
So sounds like "Be the change you want to see in the world." is a nice summary
of the whole phrase, right? :-)

~~~
syrrim
It's a funny tendency that these fake quotes always manage to capture the
essence of what they are misquoting.

~~~
Kaiyou
It's just compression, since nobody wants to bother repeating the long version
frequently.

~~~
J5892
The long version is a lot harder to put on a coffee mug.

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smartbit
_May You Live in Interesting Times_ is the name of the 2019 edition of La
Biennale Arte in Venice [0]:

‘The 58th International Art Exhibition, titled _May You Live In Interesting
Times_ , takes place from 11th May to 24th November 2019. The title is a
phrase of English invention that has long been mistakenly cited as an ancient
Chinese curse that invokes periods of uncertainty, crisis and turmoil;
"interesting times", exactly as the ones we live in today.’

Not withstanding the discussion what the origin of this years phrase is, I can
highly recommend _La Biennale Arte di Venice_ as a bi-yearly reflection on the
_zeitgeist_. Besides the main exhibition, the 78 participating countries are
represented with an exhibition by their finest artists, eg in 2011 the US
pavilion featured a military tank turned upside down with a treadmill on top
[1]

Venice can be reached from Paris by sleeper train [2] and from many other
european destinations by train & air.

[0]
[https://www.labiennale.org/en/art/2019](https://www.labiennale.org/en/art/2019)

[1] [https://youtu.be/-0Dmptetj1s](https://youtu.be/-0Dmptetj1s)

[2] [https://www.seat61.com/thello-train-from-paris-to-
italy.htm](https://www.seat61.com/thello-train-from-paris-to-italy.htm)

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bkyan
So, it's kind of like the fortune cookie thing, where people actually living
in China have no clue what Americans are talking about?

~~~
rectangletangle
Kind of curious what the counterpart to this would be. What things are
typically ascribed to Americans, that Americans are often unaware of?

American Sauce in the Netherlands comes to mind.

~~~
lordnacho
In Denmark when they want to make fun of American self-importance, they call
it "guds eget land" or "God's own country". I've never heard the expression in
English.

~~~
CamouflagedKiwi
I've heard it used referring to New Zealand (by NZers, although often now
abbreviated to just "Godzone"). The equivalent term we'd use to make fun of
the US is "land of the free".

~~~
selimthegrim
I used it when the police there let me off a speeding ticket in the mail - I
had no idea it was a common thing

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fractallyte
I read a long time ago that this quote was originally (and surprisingly)
coined by the science fiction writer Eric Frank Russell. It certainly fits his
humorous style, and the type of stories he used to write.

Unfortunately, I can't remember the source of this claim. However, this
article does quote Arthur C Clarke's reference to the 'curse': _As the old
Chinese curse has it: “May you live in interesting times,” and the twentieth
century is probably the most “interesting” period mankind has ever known._

Clarke and Russell were (as far as I recall) friends at university in the
1930s, which certainly fits the time period attributed to the quote.

So, I go with Eric Frank Russell, a writer who definitely had the finesse to
create something so enigmatic and seemingly-authentic.

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mrbonner
During the 2008 subprime mortgage crash, JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon wrote an
email to the world-wide staff about the acquisition of Bear, I remember he put
"May you live in interesting times" in the email but I couldn't find any
relevant explanation of the meaning of the quote. I asked a few
Chinese/Vietnamese friends and they didn't seem to know the origin of it,
either.

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Sir_Cmpwn
There's also a book based on this quote by the legendary Terry Pratchett:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interesting_Times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interesting_Times)

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smacktoward
Quote Investigator does indispensable work.

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headsoup
I don't understand why Chinese historians don't seem to have been engaged
here? I get finding the American reference source, but then the research just
seems to leave it at that.

Is this the scope of the site - just investigating local sources for quotes?

~~~
schoen
I think the site editor is a native English speaker, and I don't think the
site has a team of speakers of other languages to help investigate non-English
quote origins.

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ncmncm
The Clinton quote, "Are you having an Interesting Time yet?" also brings in
Bill Griffiths's Zippy the Pinhead catchphrase, "Are we having fun yet?".

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dengsauve
100% a quote by Harry Kim in Voyager

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ferMM
J.L. Borges: "Le tocaron, como a todos los hombres, malos tiempos en que
vivir."

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knolax
Just goes to show that the self-proclaimed "experts" on some foreign country
are usually charlatans and peddlers of disinformation. Take that into account
the next time you see anything on the news by some "investigative journalist"
or "$country expert".

