
If I could pay by card in your shop - I'd do shopping here - karol_zielinski
http://blog.karolzielinski.com/if-i-could-pay-by-card-in-your-shop-id-do-shopping-here?sms_ss=hackernews
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mbateman
There is currently an attempt to pass a bill limiting the fees banks can take
from merchants when someone buys using a debit card. The supporters of this
bill tend to myopically ignore points like this (among other things).

Edit: Recent story on this:
[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870425660457529...](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704256604575295072627703504.html)

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sounddust
I wonder how much of this policy has to do with tax evasion? It's hard to
avoid reporting credit/debit card income.

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bonsaitree
For the shop owner(s), making the economic case for having a card merchant
account comes down to several factors:

\- Size of typical transactions \- Volume of transactions per billing cycle \-
% of charge-backs per billing cycle \- Charge-back volume compared to revenue
\- Anticipated volume & revenue gains with the additional card buying channel
\- Comfort level with dependency on 3rd-party accounting \- Comfort level with
3rd party data mining \- Comfort level with necessary technologies \-
Additional management overhead due to accounting and card accouterments

Offhand, there are a variety of scenarios, esp. for boutique businesses in
urban environments with ready access to ATMs, where a cash-only policy makes
good business sense.

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karol_zielinski
Sometimes it doesn't have a sense to install terminal for card payments.
However it's a very rare exception.

In most cases not-only-cash policy makes good business sense. Especially when
the competitors from the same street or at least competitors from the same
industry have such terminals.

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zalew
_competitors from the same street or at least competitors from the same
industry have such terminals._

Same street or same industry doesn't mean focusing on the same clients. If
most of your clients come for milk, bread & butter, it doesn't make sense to
install hardware just because 2 dudes want to pay card for a pack of cigs.

I have 2 shops like that near me and both run well. The one which has more
products and card payment obviously earns more and you can see that, but it
doesn't mean that it's not a win-win situation, nor that the main reason of
one's bigger success is the presence of a terminal.

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zalew
Like OP, I also often don't carry cash, and I'm from Poland, however I assume
certain rules apply to other countries too.

TINSTAFL. Shop owner pays for the POS terminal, pays for the phone connection,
pays some percentage of the transaction and even for the printed logo on the
bill. I don't believe any business owner would pay for that without charging
clients for the cost, so in the end, it's split out onto the products prices.
Specifically in Poland there's a law that f.ex. cigarettes cannot be charged
more than the MSRP, but the rest of products obviously can, so in the end, you
are the one who pays for the comfort of paying with plastic.

Also, cash is billed directly, money from bank transactions come with a (afair
2-3 days) delay, so obviously paper gives the business owner a better cash
flow than plastic. Oh, and a very-cheapo Polish 7-11-alike Biedronka after
many years of operation afaik still doesn't accept cards, and besides slave
labour I think it's also a matter of being able to drop prices a bit more. So
there's probably some common sense there. I don't like being unable to pay
with card though.

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karol_zielinski
Biedronka is a discount shop. We can't require from these kind of shops that
they may want to pay extra money for using terminals for card payments.
Remember that in many of these stores you could find an ATM next to the till.

Most of the shops are not discount stores. They have normal products, with
normal prices. They can (and should) pay some extra money for a possibility of
card payments, because if they want to exist - they need to meet customers'
needs. Today, most people expect that they will be able to pay by card.

~~~
zalew
_in many of these stores you could find an ATM next to the till._

which probably charge you for the transaction a lot, if it's not your bank or
euronet.

I'm generally with you, I expect that services meet my needs and if I have a
choice, I choose the ones that do. Personally it's sometimes hard to believe
that someone can run a business excluding me as a target client ;) but somehow
it's possible. And surprisingly, lots of the shops we assume they would
struggle to exist, still run very well.

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robryan
It really depends on location. At my uni, most of everything is pay with cash,
all the shops are close to an ATM so it really isn't a big deal and can help
move things along if there are a lot of people around.

Other stores though it is frustrating, the thing that frustrates me the most
is news agents with a $10 minimum when a newspaper is probably less than $2
and the average magazine comes in under to. I've offered to pay $10 for a $8
magazine before to avoid the hassle just to be told that they won't let me so
I have to buy something I don't want to make the $10.

I understand the transaction fee problem, but I think the goodwill you get by
allowing pay by card no matter how small the purchase offsets this.

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karol_zielinski
I agree that paying by cash can help move things along, but that's the only
one (in my opinion) argument for this kind of payments. I don't want to say:
'don't take cash', just: 'give your customers a choice. give them a chance to
pay at least by cash, or by card'.

As for an amount of purchase... I understand transaction fee problems related
to these kind of things. That's why I think that people need to realize that
if they want to pay by card - they need to buy something more then just a
newspaper. Unfortunately we can't jump over the bank charges.

However... it would be a really good idea to build a system, which would take
money from your bank account or a credit card once a month for all the things
you bought in that month.

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nnash
I've recently moved to NYC for the summer to work at an internship and I'm
surprised at just how many places here take cash only. For the first time in
years i'm walking around with cash in my pockets, whereas back home my wallet
is always empty except for my credit cards. It isn't just small towns but big
cities as well. I will agree that visa is easier for the consumer, but I won't
avoid shopping/eating somewhere that takes only cash.

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cooltoon
Certain shop owners fail to realize that managing cash (instead of plastic) is
expensive too -- probably even more expensive than AMEX extremely high fees.
If you factor in: counterfeited currency, risk of robbery, lost business, trip
to bank to deposit/withdraw cash etc,, it's easy to see how expensive managing
cash is. Here in Holland i'm actually starting to see shops that only deals
with plastic and don't accept cash.

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pbhjpbhj
We actually find in our bricks&mortar that it's least expensive to deal with
cheques (but only very very rarely does someone pay with a cheque). Customers
believe that it is better to pay cash and that we must be charged a lot for
card payments (they offer to go to the cash machine down the hill). Reality is
that the bank screws us either way^W^W^W^W charge us for cash and card at
about the same rate in our case - they make cheques free as we're an SME.

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Tichy
Maybe the shops have their reasons. Don't know - I never run a shop. But I
have a feeling the author of the article doesn't really know either.

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karol_zielinski
True. I've never run a shop.

However I know few of the shop owners. All of them are saying the same thing:
problem is money or sometimes technical issues (e.g. someone doesn't know how
to use computer or a terminal for card payments; doesn't want to learn new
things; is afraid of new technology).

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dalore
It the same mentality that cabbies are against taking cards in taxis.

They did studies and found people tip more when using a card. And I know if I
don't have cash myself and I know the cabs will take a card I'd catch one
rather then find some alternative.

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karol_zielinski
Absolutely agree. Good point.

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kunley
Actually having a cash buffer and paying with it is quite healthy habit.

You get this understanding after a while though, for me it was past 30.

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bitslayer
Pay with cash: keep the fat cat bankers out of the deal.

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dangrover
Unless you have to go to an ATM and pay a fee for using cash that's much
greater than what the merchant is charged for the transaction.

