
Apple - Ergonomics - Introduction - rjim86
http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/index.html
======
saltcod
I wonder why this is on HN today? Maybe others, like me, wish that Apple
produced an ergonomic keyboard?

While I love the keystroke feel of both wireless Apple keyboards, I really
wish they had a split ergonomic version. After a day of coding, my wrists and
for arms just ache constantly.

Or ......maybe this is on HN for some other reason.

~~~
jey
There are many vendors of ergonomic keyboards that are compatible with Apple
hardware. Why do you wish for one to be produced by Apple?

~~~
myoung8
Consistency of (beautiful) hardware design. Existing ergonomic keyboards are
just plain ugly and it's a shame to pair them with Apple devices.

~~~
emehrkay
If this puppy had all of the same keys as apple keyboards, id be all over it

[http://i.microsoft.com/hardware/_base_v1/images/hero/cat_key...](http://i.microsoft.com/hardware/_base_v1/images/hero/cat_keyboard_hero_945_400.jpg)

This one too

[http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/arc-
keyboard/J5D-0...](http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/arc-
keyboard/J5D-00001)

~~~
weaksauce
which keys are you looking for? I use a ms natural multimedia keyboard with my
macbook and love it.

~~~
ajarmoniuk
I use a ms natural keyboard and ms arc and both are great (arc has a mac feel
to it)

------
martingordon
Funny that that page survived numerous apple.com redesigns, considering it's
content is at least ten years old
([http://web.archive.org/web/20010606134728/http://www.apple.c...](http://web.archive.org/web/20010606134728/http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/)).

Here's some trivia: Apple did make an ergonomic back in 1993 and they got sued
for patent infringment over it. See:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard> and
<http://tidbits.com/article/2676>

------
geophile
I've tried numerous Apple mice, as well as the new trackpad. Every single one
of them caused severe wrist pain, and I ended up going back to my cheapo ugly
Microsoft or Logitech mouse within 1-2 days.

More subjectively, Apple's emphasizing mouse input over keyboard input was a
mistake in hindsight. Easier for learning, but harder to use long term.

------
jluan
Is it just me or is it ironic that Apple almost exclusively sells glossy
screens, but writes this:

Eye strain refers to ocular fatigue, eye discomfort and headaches associated
from intensive use of the eyes. Common causes include:

glare on the computer screen

~~~
coob
You have just as much glare on a matt screen, it's just defused. If you angle
a glossy screen correctly, you'll have much less glare than a matt screen.

~~~
jonhendry
A properly-angled matte screen will have less glare than a properly-angled
glossy screen. And a matte screen is less finicky about how it's positioned,
which is an advantage when you are seated in a place that limits your options.

Plus the glossy bezel around the usable area of the screen acts like a mirror.
The brightness of the active region overwhelms a lot of reflections, but that
doesn't apply to the black bezel.

I work on a glossy iMac, and I've been tempted to get strips of matte black
material with which I could cover the bezel, using magnets to hold them on.

------
solipsist

      Cause: Unable to touch type    Solution: Learn to touch type.
    

<http://www.apple.com/about/ergonomics/baksol.html>

------
rfurlan
Apple page on ergonomics? How ironic considering that most of their input
devices are more like torture devices. Beautiful for sure but suitable for
human use.

~~~
rfurlan
"Sent from my iPad" lol

------
jam
I think desks in general stopped being ideal after the switch away from
writing on paper. Nothing new has caught on and it's quite unfortunate.

I like to work with a keyboard on my lap, and there are so few good options
for it that it's incredible. My requirements are:

\- some access to the mouse pointer. 1% of my usage still requires it. \-
shallow keys (like the apple keyboard). This is just preference. \- apple cmd
and option keys. \- no numpad. \- wireless and usable at up to 10 feet or so.

Doesn't sound crazy right? The only decent quality keyboard that meets those
requirements is the Logitech diNovo Edge... the design of which I find just
cheezy enough that I'm not into it.

I'd easily pay $200 for the right keyboard, but it just doesn't exist. In the
meantime, I'm stuck using one of these:
[http://www.hekseskudd.com/products/abidextrous-wooden-
tray-f...](http://www.hekseskudd.com/products/abidextrous-wooden-tray-for-
apple-wireless-keyboard-and-trackpad.html)

------
joe_the_user
Hmm,

In every flight I've been on lately, I've walked past a middle-age man in
first class unconsciously wincing as he laboriously typing an email on his
iPad with no keyboard...

So, sure the article is a fine general summary of physiological/"ergonomic"
principles. But, having a bit of training in body work and movement, I have to
say that many people are simply unable to notice debilitating situations until
those situations are truly injuring them and then it is often too late - at
least too late for a small change in routine to be enough.

So initial advice like asking one's self "do certain tasks or pieces of
furniture and equipment stand out as awkward, difficult, even painful to use"
are really less useful than they ought to be.

... Which is to say that having some detailed page on ergonomics doesn't make
up for Apple's products flagrantly violating ergonomic principles -
especially, Apple de-emphasizing the keyboard is bad regardless of their
offering alternatives if you look really, really hard. The iPad is a further
ergonomic disaster regardless of the fact "most people only use it a little"
and "you can attach a keyboard to".

Using a pointing device for input is a disaster compared to a keyboard because
it inherently involved more shock-per-byte-enter to the member involved than
using a keyboard. Anyone concerned about ergonomics should stop doing that
before they notice problems, not afterwards - _which is not to say that people
can't have other, serious problems around the other issues mentioned in the
articles other sections_.

Good ergonomics should not be about changing things once people a problem.

~~~
sliverstorm
It's always seemed to me that Apple's view of their users is simply that they
do very little actual typing- and they will be doing less and less as time
progresses.

It doesn't really even seem like that inaccurate of a view. It is exceedingly
rare I see any real typing happening on an Apple keyboard. Usually the most
use I see them receiving, is the typing of a paper- at about 3wpm.

* typing either with a physical keyboard OR with an on-screen keyboard

------
joshuahedlund
There is useful information here, regardless of how old it is. But most of it
relates to a desktop environment, and I've already begun to notice more
repetitive motion annoyances from my mobile phone usage than I ever did from
my desktop usage. Would love to see Apple and others emphasize ergonomic
mobile use.

------
ap22213
I can't wait to get that sexy 5' x 6' Apple cubicle shown in the work layout
area.

------
jimmysilvs
<https://www.google.com/search?q=hockey+puck+mouse>

~~~
laconian
Jobs: Look at this mouse. It's the most wonderful mouse you've ever used.

------
pasbesoin
I'm apparently in the minority and believe this will never be addressed. But
since the topic's being discussed...

Laptop designs such as Apple's place a "ginormous" "shelf" in front of the
keyboard. As a result, whenever I'm working on one particularly on a work
surface whose height I can't adjust (conference room table, table at cafe --
where chair height also isn't adjustable, etc.), I find the front edge of that
shelf digging into my wrists or forearms behind the wrists. This both slows my
typing and quickly becomes extremely uncomfortable.

The Lenovo T420 is about the maximum shelf size I can tolerate (thanks for not
messing that up -- yet -- Lenovo!). I had some older, smaller laptops in the
past that were quite comfortable for typing because they provided enough room
to rest my palms (without hitting the trackpad, by the way) without
interfering with my wrists or my need to bend same when not in an optimal
workspace).

I guess lots of people don't care or actually like that ginormous shelf; I
hate it.

------
georgieporgie
It's nearly 2012 and I'm still contorting my body to fit the computer's
interface.

On a related note, I just found out that the neck injury (bulged/inflamed
disc, pressuring the C6/C7 nerve) I developed three years ago effectively
makes me uninsurable for ten years. Pay attention to your body, folks.

------
ktusznio
This is a joke, right? The design of Apple products make almost no effort to
aid proper/effective ergonomic use. Good luck using an iPad or MacBook without
destroying your neck/upper back.

