

Ask HN:  Pain Points of Online Clothes Shopping? - Mz

In this discussion http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2726989, three people have already mentioned clothes as an issue.  The OP is not considering getting into this space.  Just wondering if we can have a separate discussion and elaborate on why people hate shopping for clothes.<p>Thanks.
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hluska
I will qualify my response by admitting that I actually enjoy shopping for
clothes, just not online.

Shopping for clothes online is sort of like walking around Manhattan with a
blindfold on. You've got no idea what you're getting into and more often than
not, you wish you could rewind and make different choices.

Consider the variables that go into clothes shopping.

Size/Fit - This one drives me insane - I've got an extra 15 or 20 pounds
around my waistline so size and fit are especially important to me. Some
clothes, while 'my size' don't fit well, to the point that I can't wear them
and have to return them. Change rooms are my friend! :)

Colour - There is a huge difference between the colours you see online and the
colours you see in person. This makes buying a single item from one store to
go with an item from another store rather difficult.

Fabric - Call me a wimp, but I don't like rough fabrics, so I'm on of those
annoying shoppers who puts his hands on everything. When I buy online, I'm
keenly aware that I could be getting a burlap sack...

Then add in two sales forces:

Immediate gratification - When I was in University, I had a part time job in
retail (slanging suits). That was my first taste of working in a mall and I
was amazed by the dynamics of it. Specifically, how many people would walk by,
see something they like, and come in to purchase it. When I saw the behaviour
in others, I became keenly aware of it in myself. Honestly, I'd say that at
least 75% of my clothing purchases are like that - I walk around in a mall,
randomly see something in a window, and make the purchase.

The upsell - A good employee in retail is a dangerous thing because he/she is
the person who will take that immediate gratification purchase and turn it
into two bags full. I think I have found some of the coolest garments I own
through the upsell and I love the process. Unfortunately, I have yet to find
an online shopping site that is really good at this!

Between those things, I would much rather shop in person than online. Is it
just me, or is there an idea in here somewhere?? ;)

~~~
revorad
Regarding size/fit see my other comment.

Colour and fabric - While this will never be the same as buying in person, I
think the situation can be vastly improved by crowdsourcing real photos and
videos (not fake photoshopped catalog ones you see on stores).

Upsell - I fail to understand why online stores (Amazon!) don't have live
help. I bet it would increase conversions.

Most people don't shop online because of various fears and trust issues, which
I think can be addressed if someone really tried.

~~~
sixtofour
"Upsell - I fail to understand why online stores (Amazon!) don't have live
help. I bet it would increase conversions."

That would be more labor, and maybe not enough upside in the upsell to make it
worthwhile. Amazon has staked out the low overhead space for the sweet spot
they're aiming at. They have robots pull orders in the warehouse.

~~~
revorad
But Amazon clearly understands the value of going overboard for excellent
customer service, otherwise they wouldn't buy Zappos.

------
jjk
This is exactly the thing we're trying to solve for guys with Bombfell.com.
The way I see it there are 3 main problems with shopping online (or shopping
for clothes in general)

1) Sizing/Fit: A medium in brand X can be very different than brand Y. So you
never end up knowing if what you're getting is actually going to fit or not
until it arrives at your door.

2) What to get: There's a tremendous number of brands out there with different
styles/patterns/cuts etc. What's the best style that's going to accentuate
your look? What cool brands are out there? It's nearly impossible to know
these things unless you devote a significant amount of time to reading
up/learning fashion.

3) Taking the time out to buy stuff. Certainly this is better online than
offline, but shopping online certainly requires a mental-tax and context-
switching that I'd pretty much rather avoid.

We thought it would be awesome if clothes that look good and fit great just
magically appeared every month and so we're trying to solve that problem with
Bombfell.com.

~~~
revorad
Bombfell looks fun, but I wouldn't sign up unless I saw some photos or videos
of clothes you have/had in stock. It would take a lot of trust for me to hand
over $69 to an unknown company without even seeing what they sell.

~~~
jjk
Take a look at our featured brands section: www.bombfell.com/threads

We also don't charge your card until you decide to keep the clothes we send.

------
eswat
Online shopping for clothes is not sufficient for those that believe that fit
is paramount, both in sizing and material (tailoring and suits aside aside).

As sixtofour said, you can’t reliably shop for size online unless it’s
something that most companies are consistent on, like a t-shirt. Even then I
wouldn’t buy a t-shirt online if I haven’t tried it on before: again, fit is
paramount and I need to be reasonably sure I feel comfortable in it. Anything
below the belt is pretty much out of the question because they are probably
the worst culprit of this inconsistency.

------
revorad
Regarding the size problem, one idea I've had is to create a set of "sizing"
clothes, which you send to new customers for free. They return them to you
indicating which size fits best. You keep a record of that to match all future
purchases based on the dimensions (not just broad size category) of the best
fit. You could probably also do this by asking people to send in their old
clothes which fit them well. You just use the clothes for getting the
measurement and donate them to charity.

~~~
Mz
This kind of assumes that people don't change size. In my experience, this is
not true. I'm female and for women this seems especially problematic,
especially once they start having kids. This also sounds to me like a fairly
expensive solution for the business. But thanks for the feedback. It's good
food for thought.

~~~
sixtofour
"create a set of "sizing" clothes, which you send to new customers for free.
They return them to you indicating which size fits best."

That sounds brilliant on first reading. I think it would take a lot of work
and research to make it work, but man what a killer if it does work.

I don't think people change sizes that often, but that's solved by "Does Item
XYZ still fit well, or should we send you another set of sizers?"

Note: this has been a surprisingly interesting thread. I really don't care
about clothes, as long as I don't look like a derelict. But it's been fun to
read and comment.

~~~
Mz
Actually, my line of thinking has been more along the lines of an online
sizing tool that could be implemented by anyone who owns a tape measure. I
can't sew, but I did learn to take measurements as a kid (and I'm handy with a
seam-ripper...and a few other things).

Also, I get away with grabbing stuff off the rack in part because of the types
of clothes I buy. I strongly favor knits, jersey, and stuff with a smidgeon of
spandex. I have a serious medical condition and I suffer edema. I can bloat up
so bad overnight that people will congratulate me on my pregnancy (probably in
part because they all think I am in my thirties and I am so NOT). So I can't
wear anything too fitted because it may not fit from one day to the next.

As I get healthier and these issues resolve, I am finding that I no longer
qualify for "women's" sizes and am beginning to have some of the pain points I
had in my youth: Tall, thin women have a tough time finding clothes that fit
properly. (Men get "big and tall" shops. Women get "petite" (short) and
"women's" (fat).) When I was younger, I sometimes fantasized about learning to
make my own clothes. That never happened. These days, I fantasize about
starting a factory to make the kind of things that work well for me and, oh,
turn a tidy profit at the same time. Time will tell if such thoughts lead
anywhere. In the mean time, I am contemplating how to address such topics on
various websites I own.

Thanks so much for your generous contributions to the thread.

------
tirrellp
Unless you already know how the sizing runs for a particular brand/model, its
a crap shoot in terms of if it will fit. This kills the incentive to choose
'something new'. Most often I end up buying replacements for or variants of
stuff I have already.

------
sixtofour
You cannot reliably shop for a size. No two shoes are sized the same, no two
shirts or pants. Except for Tshirts and underwear you MUST try something on to
be sure it's comfortable.

~~~
Mz
Yes, this is a significant issue, both online and off. But what if there were
an informational solution to this issue? What if a site could give you
sufficient data/means to determine the answer?

Thanks for replying.

~~~
sixtofour
Then I'd probably buy online more often. Certainly the available choices would
be better.

I buy a particular model of athletic shoe in part because so far (third pair)
the manufacturer hasn't messed with the model, so the sizing hasn't changed.
But I still go to the store to try them on.

I will try on five or more pairs of shoes in a store, and sometimes still
won't buy a pair. Free shipping both ways doesn't fix that for me.

~~~
Mz
Hoping this is not taken as offensive, but do you do that with all clothes or
with shoes in particular? If it is only shoes, do you have some foot issue.
(My oldest son has one foot slightly larger than the other and this makes shoe
shopping a challenge for him. He sticks to sandals in part for that reason.)

Thanks for the feedback.

~~~
sixtofour
My feet may be slightly wider than manufacturers want to fit. It seems like
shoes don't come in widths anymore, "just the sizes you see here mate."

I also try on shirts and pants a bit before buying, but shoes seem to be my
bigger problem.

~~~
Mz
It's actually not an uncommon problem. When I had a zillion clothing books and
fantasies/aspirations of becoming an image consultant, I read that one thing
that at least one image consultant did was hook people up with specialty folks
to address specific problems. One of these folks: A woman who made custom
shoes for like $300/pair to fit your feet properly if you had foot issues. And
people who bought those shoes felt they were well worth the big ticket price.
(And this was some years back when $300 was a bigger sticker shock than it
would be now.)

Thanks for replying.

------
Mz
I want to thank everyone who has replied so far. I have a huge blind spot in
this regard. I was born with the proverbial silver spoon in my mouth when it
comes to clothes:

My mother sews beautifully and made a lot of my clothes as a child. She also
has crazy mad shopping skills and routinely bought things for me as a kid
without me trying them on. I would come home from school and there would be
something hanging on my bedroom door and the question was not "does it fit?"
it was "do you like it?" She still routinely buys clothes for some relatives
without taking them with her. I do this kind of thing for my sons as well. My
sister routinely bought clothes off the rack for ten years without necessarily
bothering to try them on (I think this changed after she had a baby). When my
sons were little, my mother sewed a lot of their clothes and mailed it to us.
I occasionally took their measurements and let her know the updated
measurements. She can buy you a winter coat for Christmas one year, mail it to
you in another state and not see it again and buy gloves the following
Christmas that are a perfect match in color (I don't have such amazing perfect
color memory -- and the woman is blind in one eye).

I tend to give clothes short shrift, because it's not a big deal for me. A
recent conversation with a friend made me realize that. I would like to do
something, of some sort, in the clothing space. Still not sure what.

The feedback here is much appreciated.

~~~
sixtofour
Hire your mum as a consultant.

~~~
Mz
:-)

Yes, that thought had crossed my mind. Still contemplating where I want to go
with this.

Thanks.

