
Psychedelic mushrooms put your brain in a “waking dream,” study finds - bjchrist
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/07/03/psychedelic-drugs-put-your-brain-in-a-waking-dream-study-finds/?tid=sm_fb
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catshirt
"It’s still not clear why such effects can have more profound long-term
effects on the brain than our nightly dreams."

maybe because it's not really like dreaming at all?

calling a psychedelic trip a "waking dream" really undermines the way your
consciousness is altered during a trip. as a matter of fact, your
consciousness is one of the few things that seems consistent through the real
world and dream world.

calling it a "waking dream" also kind of undermines how insane dreaming
actually is and how little we know about it.

~~~
lucastx
I like the way calling it a "waking dream" hints that, during a trip, the
subconscious (whatever it is concretely) expands its connection with the
conscious mind.

The fact that lucid dreaming is a way to explore your mind ("psychonaut" is a
name that both psychedelic users and lucid dreamers use) is more evidence of
that, for me.

~~~
catshirt
good point. i'm just hesitant to throw lucid dreaming, meditation, and LSD
into the same bucket. it's like comparing a hammer to a paintbrush to a belt
sander.

i mean, they may very well all belong in exactly the same bucket. i am just
hesitant to jump to that conclusion.

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iammyIP
I am looking forward to a time where the existance of these psychoactive drugs
becomes more widely accepted for scientific studies and medical treatment
without any of the current demonisation. There seems to be too much to learn
about the function of the self that it almost seems irresponsible to wash this
aside and criminalise it with a last centuries mindset.

~~~
Retric
There is a ton of psychoactive drugs proscribed every year, so I am not really
sure what your suggesting?

People also use alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine vary frequently.

If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem
to be that medically useful. There where a few appetite suppressants which
where discontinued and Nitrous oxide still sees some use but it's risky.

~~~
thatswrong0
> If you mean Hallucinogens, they have been studied extensively and don't seem
> to be medically useful.

Eh? Studied extensively? Last time I checked they're all schedule I and
haven't really been studied since the 70s. On top of that, in the few recent
studies that have focused on them, hallucinogens _do_ seem to be medically
useful. MDMA for PTSD, psilocybin for terminally ill patients, etc.

~~~
contingencies
MDMA's most infamous use that I am aware of, and which you didn't mention, is
for the temporary but complete relief of the symptoms of Parkinsons. In
addition I'm sure it would also be ideal for fostering empathy and discussion
to come to terms with the imminent loss of terminally ill loved ones. I
believe the Swiss have looked in to it for marriage counseling.

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balbaugh
Here is a link to the actual research article, "Enhanced repertoire of brain
dynamical states during the psychedelic experience."

[http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1002/hbm.2256...](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/enhanced/doi/10.1002/hbm.22562/)

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tptacek
Pretty sure those are morels, not psilocybin. Delicious, but not psychoactive.

~~~
jessaustin
Yeah the caption is "a man displays dried mushrooms", as if that had anything
to do with anything. Their file-photo folks really mailed it in on this one.

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Alex3917
For what it's worth, this article was written by a mycologist, not a drug
expert. That's why some of the explanations sound a little off. I also don't
know anyone who would describe psilocybin as being like a waking dream.

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dutchbrit
I like how this guy explains it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrYl9krZksk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrYl9krZksk)

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model500
I've taken them a few times, and all have been positive experiences that let
you explore existence. I remember at the time I was reading Flow the
psychology of experience. And while I was under the influence at work, I
started thinking about how that book applied to what I was doing, and was
seeing it happen all around me ( auto assembly), no loss in motor skills
because my skill level of that job was higher than the amount of thought
actually needed, so my unused thought energy seperated from my actions, I
started looking at things differently, mainly myself and that point of
response to stimuli for action or whatever. The point where if you notice it
can lead you towards or away certain goals with some sort of common thread.

words cant explain, because it will help each individual upgrade their mental
operating system differently.

there was a two week span where I took a small dosage each day, and i felt
better than any anti anxiety or anti depressant I've taken previously. Have
never taken another "mental" rx medication since, that as about 4 years ago.
marijuana excluded ca-legal

~~~
shawnz
That is incredibly dangerous. It is very likely that you were underestimating
how impaired you were.

~~~
goldenkey
It's far more likely than you are unaware of how much our daily tasks are
unconsciously automatic and how little credit you give the brain.

~~~
shawnz
Auto assembly, though? That is the kind of thing that requires full attention
to prevent injury.

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crimsonalucard
I often hear that these types of drugs can change the way you see the world.
As someone who has never taken a psychedelic I wonder if my highly
scientific/atheist view of the world will shift after taking a shroom? Can
anyone relate?

~~~
tluyben2
The first time I took mushrooms (over 20 years ago) I was walking home when
they kicked in at 2 am on a winter night. Looking around me, I saw the snow,
trees, grass, buildings very differently than normal; they were all exactly
alike. When looking at grass, it looked, literally, like the same texture
pasted all over the field. Same for snow, trees, houses. So I sat down with my
friend and started talking how the world must be built up of a much lower
resolution substance than we think and our minds add randomness to make it
seem as if it's more diverse. Shrooms are great in that you remember
everything of the trip and it is like you are awake and dreaming; I apparently
am more susceptible to it than others; I actually see things which are not
there which is more common with LSD. My friends usually saw only some
vibrations on the wall and felt funny (and after that paranoid) while I was
seeing the armada falling from the sky while hearing orchestra's play. I would
recommend anyone at least trying a few times; it changes things long term, but
like others said, I don't think you'll move to religious or something like
that; if you're scientific, it is more likely to explain things to totally
eradicate that last sliver of paranormal stuff in the world. As in; then you
actually know what they ate before they saw the holy spirit descend.

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the_cat_kittles
what if some of the lasting effects are really just the powerful insight
gained from the temporary perspective shift?

~~~
kristofferR
Hasn't that always been "known" to be the case among the sane rational users?

~~~
shawnz
Sure, "known" in the sense of "highly suspected", but of course that doesn't
absolve the need for real science on the issue.

~~~
kristofferR
I completely agree. The way the_cat_kittles phrased it though made it seem
like he thought it was a new concept.

~~~
model500
new here and somehow I separated this comment from my comment he responded to,
thought the upvote was like a thanks button. But I think it was a rhetorical
question, because it was true.

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stephenitis
“Except for some naïve users who go looking for a good time…which, by the way,
is not how it plays out,”

Shrooms and LSD is not a party drug. I repeat. not a party drug.

~~~
llllllllllll
Really depends.

Absolutely not for a first time, you're right. For me though, as I became more
comfortable with the altered psychedelic state of mind, being around people
became much easier. I wouldn't want to be trapped at a party, but I've stopped
in at them for 30-40 minutes, had fun, and then left to move onto the next
thing.

The important part for me is to have options, whether that's a ride back home,
a nearby park, someone to take a walk, an Ipod and some headphones, etc.

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TallboyOne
"Psychedelic mushrooms put your brain in a “waking dream,” study finds"

This sounds like an Onion headline, heh. They needed a study to figure that
out? Just take 1/4 oz and call me in the morning.

~~~
boyaka
That's basically what Vice did:

[http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/hamilton-and-
the-...](http://www.vice.com/hamiltons-pharmacopeia/hamilton-and-the-
philosophers-stone-part-1)

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kazinator
I don't know why, but I suddenly feel like watching Altered States. (1980
flick starring William Hurt).

~~~
MichaelAO
Almost positive that movie is based on John C. Lilly
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly))
If you're remotely interested, I highly recommend reading his books.
'Programming the Human Biocomputer' and 'The Scientist' were great.

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swayvil
now we just have to figure out what a dream is

~~~
pessimizer
I don't even think that there is such a thing. A dream is what you think just
happened when you wake up with your brain in an inconsistent state, and it
rationalizes how it arrived there. People's subjective experience of their own
dreams changes based on cultural expectations:

 _Why Did We Think We Dreamed in Black and White?_

[http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~eschwitz/SchwitzAbs/DreamB&W.htm](http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~eschwitz/SchwitzAbs/DreamB&W.htm)

edit: "In the 1950s, dream researchers commonly thought that dreams were
predominantly a black and white phenomenon, although both earlier and later
treatments of dreaming assume or assert that dreams have color. The first half
of the twentieth century saw the rise of black and white film media, and it is
likely that the emergence of the view that dreams are black and white was
connected to this change in film technology. If our opinions about basic
features of our dreams can change with changes in technology, it seems to
follow that our knowledge of the experience of dreaming is much less secure
than we might at first have thought it to be."

~~~
pessimizer
I've never been downvoted for my lack of belief in dreams before. It's a
strange experience:)

~~~
tritium
There's an odd mix of people in possession of downvote powers, and not all of
them are particularly discerning in their use of the downvote button. I think
a lot of people past the 500 point mark got their because of one lucky
submission (or a small handful of decent picks), and not necessarily because
of the quality of their character.

Anyway, I think, at a cursory glance, people (or maybe just one narrow-minded
person) are assuming that you intend to dismiss the significance of the
interpretation of dreams.

I think your concept is pretty insightful though. Considering the distortion
of time we experience during sleep, where dreams can seem to span decades, or
seconds, yet transpire within hours or fractions of an hour, that aspect holds
up well with the premise that we reconstruct the context of the dream based on
the state we're confronted with when awakening.

