
Members of Congress Demand Answers for the Unjust Domain Name Seizures - mtgx
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/members-congress-demand-answers-homeland-securitys-unjust-domain-name-seizures
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DanielBMarkham
It used to be that if you wanted to corrupt your government so that you could
gain a business advantage, it took a while. You met some politicians, you made
some donations, you "entertained" folks. Legislation was introduced. It might
take several tries before it was passed.

What I see now is that the system has granted itself so much _administrative_
discretion that you can use government as a direct agent in trying to kill
your competitors. The threshold for getting the big stick of the government
out and whacking your competition is so low that you're presented with
multiple choices: go for their domain name. Find a violation of the thousands
of various codes they must comply with. Use your patents to start a patent
war. And so on.

The beauty of this way of doing things is that the more you either screw
somebody else over or get screwed over, the more you end up doing all the
corruption activity that you used to have to do on the front end -- but this
time it's to be left alone. So in this case we have people pleading with their
Congressmen to try to get the system to work correctly. We've switched from
corrupting a somewhat honest system for your own purposes to paying off a
somewhat corrupt system in order to be left alone. Based on this, I predict
political campaigns will continue to draw exponentially more money as things
progress.

Interesting times to live in. We obviously need a secure, private, P2P domain
name system.

~~~
greenyoda
"We obviously need a secure, private, P2P domain name system."

We obviously need the government to respect the laws and the Constitution.
Technological fixes are not the solution to corrupt government. If the
government can't seize someone's domain, they can still seize their assets (as
in the Megaupload case).

~~~
joe_the_user
We need to get the government to respect our rights and the Constitution and
we need to make it hard for the government to violate our rights. The two
aspects go together. Much as one might like this just to be about convincing
politicians and bureaucrats to do the right thing, making it harder for these
politicians and bureaucrats to do the wrong thing needs to be part of the
process. Oddly enough, I think the framers of the constitution understood
this.

And Megaupload had the technical problem of a single point of failure. Peer-
to-peer is more robust - it still can be shutdown too but it's still
worthwhile to make things hard for would-be censors.

------
jballanc
There's a well known technique used by cops (relayed to me by a handful of
retired NYC cops that worked security at a former job): you let the small time
offenders go, so that they are more willing to help you with the big problems
down the line.

One cop explained it like this: "We'd find guys smoking dope on their stoop,
say hello, and just keep walking," he told me. "But we'd remember their names
and faces. Then, when there was a murder or rape in the neighborhood, we would
drive around, pick them up, and say 'Remember when you were smoking dope and
we didn't say anything? Well, now we need you to repay the favor. Give me some
names...'"

In one sense, it was a way to coerce inside intelligence contacts. In another
sense, it was cops recognizing that in a city like NYC, there are bigger
problems than someone smoking pot on their doorstep.

Now the internet is the city, and these cops are arresting every jaywalker and
litterer they can find. Somehow, I doubt it will turn out well in the long
run...

~~~
fffggg
It's much, much worse than what you describe. They are seizing domains based
on the preference of a private entity. There is no allegation of criminal
infringement against dajaz1.com -- not even a little bit.

This is not an issue of harassing minor offenders, this is an issue of
harassing those who have not offended in the slightest. Who are guilty of
nothing more than saying something (in the form of links) which the RIAA does
not wish to hear.

~~~
GFischer
I remember having heard about dajaz, yes.

Rojadirecta is an interesting case, in that they were infringing on copyright,
but they were found legal in Spain (different legislation), so the U.S.
government seized the .com and .org anyways.

~~~
dalke
They were not infringing on copyright. That is, the US Justice Department and
Immigrations and Custom Enforcement - after 20 months - dropped the case.

There was no trial, no judgement, not even a settlement with a "fine but with
no admittance of guilt." There was nothing.

So, how are you sure that they were infringing on copyright?

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antidoh
Article says the material was legal, and that the govt was delaying while it
waited on the _RIAA_ to conclude its investigation.

A proper investigation _prior to seizure_ would have uncovered this, and a
self-respecting prosecutor or investigator would not have gone forward with
seizure after learning that there was no violation.

This is what due process is for, to prevent injustices resulting from
vigilantism, whether by citizens or governments.

This kind of thing makes us look like a banana republic. How fortunate that we
don't have to send troops outside the country to prop ourselves up; we're
already here.

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Bill_Dimm
So, three members of Congress did the right thing, and the rest probably don't
know what a domain name is.

Seriously, though, this is a step in the right direction and the three authors
of that letter are to be commended. Our country seems to have forgotten the
whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.

~~~
TallGuyShort
And all 3 of them are very familiar names from the SOPA opposition...

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001sky
Intangible "property" is Non-exclusive. The idea that it can be "stolen" is
hilarious[1]. "Oh, I'm being infringed...call 911 and blow the doors off the
house???" WTF. Arguably, amongst the strongest cases _for_ copyright is that
it _protects the integrity of free speech_ , by managing how other people
treat your work. Which is a bit Ironic in the cases here, where we are
trampling over free speech to protect strictly monetary interests.

Edit:

[1] In a logical way, not a ha-ha sort. If you have rights, they are still
your rights. The _rights_ are your economic asset. Your _rights_ have not been
stolen. This raises the crux of the matter: the enforcement of your rights. In
particular, the cost. So as a society, we need to ask ourselves who pays for
all of this? "Damaging" the economic value of your rights is a problem if the
_cost of enforcement_ is high.

------
Shank
It's definitely refreshing to see someone speaking out against blatant abuse
of power by Homeland Security on these effective takeovers with no due
process.

------
smartkids
Are domain names overrated?

If I understand the reasoning correctly, someone who really wanted to access
whatever is at "dajaz1.com" would not be willing to type 108.162.192.76. It is
a non-starter.

For example, if an announcement was posted on the web that some great music
was at 108.162.192.76, giving users a link that is an IP address would not be
sufficient to allow people to access the site? While, on the contrary, if it
was posted on the web that some great music was at "dajaz1.com" then that
would be different. How? Why? Facts, not speculation.

I know there are theories about how people evaluate domain names in search
results. But how about IP addresses? And what if the context is not a SERP?

"dajaz1" as a string really tells me nothing. I could make some assumptions
based on the string if it was somehow descriptive, but then anyone could be
controlling that domain name. It might be a copyright infringer, it might be
DHS, it could be anyone. Even if the string was "music.com". Again, facts not
just assumptions.

And if I'm diligent and look up the whois record and it's privacy protected,
then what?

The truth is, I could probably get a better idea of who is running the site
just by the IP address and using rDNS and IP registry lookups.

The point I want to make is that "domain names", for sites that have decent
content, might be overrated. The key word is "content".

If the content is good enough for people to _keep coming back_ to the site
(i.e. the site is not just looking to fool people once with the lure of false
content based on a descriptive domain name), then users will do what they have
to do to access the content. Whether it's clicking on a link that is an IP
address, bookmarking it, or even writing it down. Writing down a 4-12 digit
number!? Who would do such a crazy labour-intensive thing? A user who wants
decent content, that's who.

If this use of IP's becomes infeasible because the site wants to play constant
musical chairs with IP addresses without giving its users advance notice (this
is relatively rare in my experiments but not unheard of), then it's probably a
good thing. Because users will be alerted that the site is jumping from IP to
IP. There may be legitmate reasons for it but it's also what copyright
infringers and other criminals typically do.

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dreamdu5t
If it was an illegal seizure than the victim should sue. That's the only way
to make change here.

~~~
dangrossman
You generally can't sue the federal government.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_Unite...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States)

~~~
sp332
Sovereign immunity is waived in some situations. Tresspass (during execution
of a search) is often sue-able. Some courts as well as some members of
congress support waiving it for improper seizures as well but it's less clear.

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ten_fingers
But, but, but, just think of the progress! How much progress we've made! I
mean, in Germany in the 1930s, when one newspaper wanted another newspaper
shutdown, the solution was Brown Shirts with clubs! Since the police
leadership was all Nazi, the police looked away.

Crude! SO crude! Now we have progress! A MUCH better way!!!

Just call your local campaign bundler, pay the price, and then get fast,
effective action via the DoJ, DHS, FBI, etc.! Progress!!!

------
ten_fingers
I hope most of this post is wildly wrong. To decide is for now heavily a
judgment call. However, it may be crucial that we decide quite soon. In case
of doubt, for something like domain name seizures, there is a two word
solution -- 'due process'. More generally there is a one word solution --
'vote'.

Yes, a good candidate for the most important problem facing the US and
civilization is the citizens having too little information to monitor their
government as well as is crucial. The good news is that we are now at the
beginnings of by far the best solution so far in history -- the free and open
Internet.

We're beginning to understand: For the most important players and purposes,
PIPA and SOPA were actually not about 'protecting content'. Instead PIPA and
SOPA were to be some new laws that could be selectively enforced to build a
political machine and get power. So, if make your campaign contributions "on
time", then you are free to do business. Else, the FBI may knock down your
door, trash your offices, and take your computers.

PIPA and SOPA are just small potatoes: So, make your campaign contributions on
time, and continue to operate your coal fired electric generating plant. Else
the EPA may shut you down. In recent years coal has been the source of about
49% of US electric power. So, the EPA is a means of a shakedown of essentially
all of the US energy industry.

Look, to the important players and purposes, reducing CO2 emissions to stop
'global warming' is just an excuse to execute a shakedown and build a
political machine and get power. Those players care about 'climate change',
'global warming', 'rising sea levels', 'more frequent hurricanes', etc. less
than a spit to windward.

We've already seen the shakedown of the Internet. The "National Broadband
Plan" would give more such power over the Internet for more shakedowns and
power.

Having the DHS run 'Internet security' would be another case -- more
opportunities for shakedowns, building a political machine, and getting power.

Then there's the takeover and shakedown opportunities of 17% of the US
economy, i.e., all of US health care. Believe me, to the important players and
purposes, health care is just an excuse.

Then with control over all of US health care, essentially dictatorial control
directly by appointed bureaucrats in the Executive Branch, unionize the 21
million health care workers and have them as a source of 'Brown Shirts'. Did I
mention, it's not about health care. Instead it's about building a political
machine and getting power.

Then there's the same for transportation, i.e., play nice and get help with
your hybrid electric car project to try to satisfy the 50 MPG standard; not
play nice and go broke.

Also if go broke but play nice, then get a bailout like GM did and, presto,
have the US Treasury holding some of your preferred stock with someone
appointed by the Executive Branch on your Board. Play nice and some 'stimulus'
money can go to local governments to buy your cars, and now you have money
enough to pay your unions what they want. Not play nice and you're out'a
business.

Besides, another proposal is much more in passenger trains instead of private
cars and, thus, more Federal Government control and more opportunities for
shakedowns, political machine building, and power.

Another proposal is to do for all of US manufacturing what was done for GM --
under the control of the Executive Branch.

Look, the real objectives are not to do good things about energy, health care,
finance, manufacturing, communications, transportation, the environment, or
the economy, all of which are being used just as excuses. Instead, there are
other objectives. And the step now is toward just one word, power, based on
essentially a political machine based on new laws, regulations and, then,
selective enforcement, shakedowns, payoffs, and kickbacks.

Then for the real objectives, that subject needs a revolution, and a standard
prerequisite is a 'rotten door' so that the revolution is kicking in the
rotten door. So, on the way to revolution, work to make the door rotten. So,
the goal for now is not to make things better but to make them worse.

Then with the power of a political machine and a rotten door, kick in the
rotten door and have the revolution.

What will be the goals of the revolution? We have to guess, but we have a lot
of hints.

Look, guys, the risk is not just to your domain name.

But there is a solution: Become informed and, then, just one word. May I have
the envelope, please (drum roll): Yes, here it is, "vote".

