
Why did Vikings have 'Allah' embroidered into funeral clothes? - tosh
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41567391
======
fetbaffe
This research is a complete fraud. What is was about was to get funding for
exhibition about Islam & Sweden, it was not qualified research.

What the researcher Annika Larsson did was to take a piece of Viking cloth,
made a cut & folded it 90 degrees & matched it together from the original cut
& then read some ornaments backwards to get the word Allah. This is the
equivalent of seeing Jesus' face in a toast.

~~~
foogazi
Yes this was disappointing to read - feels like I was click-baited

------
lawlorino
I'm disappointed there's no counter argument presented in the linked article,
especially given this interpretation of the embroidery is highly subjective.
This other article gives some rebuttals from others in the field

[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/vi...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/viking-
couture-allah/543045/)

------
Stranger43
It's widely known to academia (but often ignored by popular history works)
that the vikings (especially the Swedish vikings) spend more time trading with
the Arabs then raiding England to the point where several sultan's had viking
mercenaries as their private bodyguards.

In fact the best contemporary description of an viking burial comes from an
arab trader who observed one in what is today Ukraine.

~~~
lowdose
Did the vikings travel through what is now called Russia?

~~~
goodcanadian
Yes. Arguably, they founded what is now called Russia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27)

------
Yetanfou
1) they didn't [1]

2) ...but the current political climate in Sweden is such that there is a
frantic search for anything and everything which can be used to 'prove' that
Sweden has always been a melting pot of different cultures (which it hasn't,
it used to be one of the most homogeneous mono-cultural countries in the
world) so that those who decry the current efforts to make it so can be
countered with those arguments. Truth or fiction does not really matter here
as those who tend to proffer these 'truths' also tend to adhere to the school
of thought which does not hold with 'absolute' truth, instead posing that all
truth is relative and should be seen in context of 'alternative' explanations.

[1]
[https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/vi...](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/viking-
couture-allah/543045/)

~~~
sfjailbird
Funny, I see just as many attempts at proving the opposite points, often
twisting current news and historical events to fit the narrative.

As a sibling comment pointed out, it would by no means be impossible for
Arabic cultural items to have found their way into Viking possessions, given
the vast trade networks. And even so, how in the world does 1000-year old
interactions threaten your world view of Swedish cultural/racial purity and
its relevance in modern times? Getting triggered like this indicates the
opposite of the trend you're pointing out (not that they are mutually
exclusive).

Also, in Sweden today I could be in actual danger if I made this comment
publicly in my own name, for whatever that's worth.

~~~
Mikeb85
> And even so, how in the world does 1000-year old interactions threaten your
> world view of Swedish cultural/racial purity and its relevance in modern
> times?

So what, it _must_ be true because if you don't think it's true, you're a
racist?

This particular article points out a specific piece that apparently spells
"Allah" only when viewed in a mirror, in a style that didn't exist for another
500 years, with a spelling error.

And no, it's not problematic if it were true. It's problematic that this is
being passed as real archaeology when the methodology is extremely biased.

~~~
mumblemumble
Don't forget that you have to assume they were using some sort of special
Tardis textile that's bigger on the inside. That, to me, is the most
compelling criticism. Everything else is arguably circumstantial, but it's
kind of hard to look past a hypothesis apparently resting on a physical
impossibility.

It's hard for me to see this as a big moral loss, either. A more compelling
poster child for Vikings' relationship with Islam would be the examples of
Vikings converting to Islam that are documented in the historical record. The
garment, even if you accept for the sake of argument that it does read Allah,
could still just be a prized souvenir.

------
Mikeb85
> Enlarging the patterns and looking at the reflection in a mirror revealed
> the word 'Allah' (God) in Arabic

That's really grasping at straws.

Not that it would be problematic if they really did find Arabic writing.
Vikings traded with and had conflict with Arabs and were well known to take
religious artifacts as bounty.

------
anovikov
Lol, it was just the cloth. It was typically made in Syria and sold worldwide.
As recently as in 1990s, Patriarch of Russia was hinted by the late ex-Prime
Minister Primakov, who was a specialist in the Middle East and could read
Arabic very well, that he wore one garment with the inscription "There's no
God except Allah", and it turns out that Partiarchs of Russia wore those for
centuries never having an idea. Just because the traditional ritual cloth have
been for centuries bought in Syria.

I would be highly surprised if Vikings have been Shia Muslims :D

~~~
jjdredd
That story is just a myth, joke.

~~~
anovikov
Not a myth. Yes it has been exaggerated by later stories, as if the print was
clearly visible, while in fact it was 'white on white' (letters were pressed
into cloth, as watermarks on the money) and difficult to even mention let
alone read.

------
tboyd47
Probably because some of them converted to Islam as ibn Fadlan reported.

~~~
boreas
Possible, but it seems simpler that they included luxury items from the
Islamic world in their burial practices without understanding or worrying
about the religious connotations of the script on them.

Ibn Fadlan observed the "viking" Rus in southern Russia. It would be more
surprising if there was a significant community of Muslim converts in the
Scandinavian homeland.

Fascinating stuff.

Edit: and another guy posted a link that makes a great argument that this was
fake news in the first place

------
teunispeters
I've never seen the originals but I've seen some of the research...

Likelihood some knew what it said? High. Lots of trade history, going back
thousands of years. (really confirmed for King Tut, but yes, goes back a
while) Likelihood aesthetics over worrying about what it said? Who really
knows... with enough evidence to suggest the range between "some did care" and
"as secular as a modern atheist" all being not unheard of. Likelihood of it
saying what the researchers said? Middling, but there are other finds like it
which are a bit more consistent...

------
simonblack
For the same reason the Western people have tattoos of Japanese or Chinese
characters inked onto their body. They think it looks great and it's
affordable.

I venture to say that 99.9% of Vikings had no idea those pretty designs in
gold thread said anything at all, much less the word 'Allah'.

------
AdmiralAsshat
(2017)

------
new_guy
It was the 'Calvin Klein' of the day, really that simple, just a label on
imported clothes.

~~~
netsharc
TIL the origin of Calvinism...

