
Hong Kong protesters occupy legislative chamber - realitygrill
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/01/breaking-hong-kong-protesters-storm-legislature-breaking-glass-doors-prying-gates-open/
======
jedberg
I'm honestly surprised it took this long to see something like this. I
remember the day Hong Kong was turned over to China. I watched it live on the
news. The Hong Kong people were most definitely not happy.

I'll bet at least 1/3 of the protestors weren't even born when that happened.
But they have access to both oral and written history about how things used to
be.

Information is a powerful thing. I hope they succeed in pushing back on
China's takeover.

~~~
soruly
twenty years ago, many believed in the idea "One country, two systems", "50
years unchanged"

~~~
pishpash
No they didn't. People left in droves to Canada then.

~~~
dan-robertson
I don’t see how this comment (or rather the second sentence of it) and the one
above conflict: Many people didn’t believe it and went to Canada. Many people
did believe and didn’t go to Canada.

These don’t feel mutually exclusive to me.

~~~
khc
Many people didn't believe and weren't in positions to leave

------
NeedMoreTea
You might almost think it was _intended_ to provoke a reaction.

So much so it smells like a false flag op. They were left pretty much alone
for about 12 hours, while they broke windows and shutters, since the first
reports of broken windows came last night.

To justify the "entirely necessary but unavoidable" reaction coming soon?

~~~
dmix
The last time the HK police used force there was a massive backlash and the
police were angry the government put them in that position to take the brunt
of the people's anger.

There are very good non-conspiratorial reasons for the police to take their
time, this time around. Plus there's always a subset of protestors who just
want to destroy property and take a more aggressive stance (usually the
younger ones), regardless of the predictable way it will be spun by opponents
and perceived by the more moderate public. Not every act of violence or
property destruction can be blamed on police provocateurs.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
The last time police used force they used tear gas and rubber bullets, without
warning, against an entirely peaceful demonstration. Like nkoren said previous
demonstrations have been extra careful to consistently keep it peaceful.

This time they wait until the protest has effectively finished trashing the
legislature, then go in with tear gas and have a big sign stuck on riot
shields of "WARNING: TEAR SMOKE". Both police and protest seem to be taking a
dramatically different approach. The peaceful demonstrations that have
continued appear separate.

Maybe it is as presented, but it sure makes me suspicious given history.

~~~
dmix
Sure there’s will always be people that are suspicious which is a good thing.
More eyes watching. But doesn’t mean it’s true or more plausible than
alternative theories.

The evidence you presented could be spun either way.

------
abledon
So protestors wear yellow and white helmets?

Press wear a more heavily reinforced helmet w/ possible other colors? If True,
thats so cool that they are organized enough to agree the protestors wear
helmets!

------
loyukfai
[https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/breaking-tear-gas-
depl...](https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/07/02/breaking-tear-gas-deployed-
police-clear-admiralty-protesters/)

The protesters had left and the police has reclaimed the building.

Apparently the police are also rounding up people leaving via the metro.

------
inlined
Any time protesters start throwing “unidentified liquids” my mind makes some
gross assumptions. Maybe I’ve spent too long in SF.

~~~
calyth2018
Piss is probably preferable to acid.

Throwing acid is not exactly unheard of in HK - often cases against women.

Thankfully there's no indication of that.

------
reaperducer
FWIW, the BBC World Service coverage of this has been... disappointing.

During the time the protestors were raising the British flag in the
legislative chamber, the World Service was doing an in-depth report on Taylor
Swift's latest social media rant, and interviewing some blogger about Ivanka
Trump.

I remember when the BBC was the go-to place for breaking world news.

~~~
rolltiide
What exactly is the sentiment of raising the old British HK flag?

Is it like that would be a preferred status of HK?

Is is like a reference to former puppets running HK, who now report to Beijing
instead of Britain?

Is it just trolling?

~~~
HippoBaro
From what I understand, they largely romanticize the times when Hong Kong was
a British colony. However, it seems clear that what the protesters are asking
for is ideologically more in-line with a British/Western conception of a
democratic society. And because Hong Kong will _never_ be independent and the
CCP _never_ democratic, raising the British HK flag is the last thing they can
hold on to.

I see it as a testament to their desperation.

~~~
rolltiide
Interesting.

When I talk to HK citizens I don't really get the sense of desperation. I get
the sense of complacency and imaging everything is going to be okay. Carrie
Lam has certainly crossed an ideological line, I still think we are projecting
our perspective of how Hong Kong citizens are supposed to feel.

------
SolaceQuantum
I watched (on reuters) the police come in with tear gas and beat sticks and
riot shields and beat/gas the entire crowd away, with a sign reading 'WARNING:
TEAR GAS'. Even though the legislative chamber seemed relatively empty
compared to the large crowd outside milling about and continuing the peaceful
protest...

~~~
loyukfai
Those protesters, trying to avoid arrest, left before the police re-occupied
the building.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
Yeah, it was just strange to see the police marching on the streets like that.

------
djsumdog
I really hope Hong Kong gains independence from China. They do not want to be
part of that regime. Hong Kong currently participates in some United Nations
committees, but is not recognized as a country.

Have there been any political leaders in Hong Kong who have publicly opposed
returning to China or who have requested recognition by other UN member
States?

~~~
lordnacho
This sounds like a complete no-go. Would the rest of the world accept HK as an
independent state? Look how they're accepting Taiwan. Now add that China has
actual agreements on the status of HK and Macau.

~~~
sandworm101
>> During talks with Thatcher, China planned to invade and seize Hong Kong if
the negotiations set off unrest in the colony. Thatcher later said that Deng
told her bluntly that China could easily take Hong Kong by force, stating that
"I could walk in and take the whole lot this afternoon", to which she replied
that "there is nothing I could do to stop you, but the eyes of the world would
now know what China is like".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Hong_Kong)

The eyes of the world indeed do "know what China is like". They do not care.
Should HK move towards independence, tanks will roll south and the world will
do nothing.

~~~
inlined
It amazes me when suddenly something matters or it doesn’t. There were
outcries over Crimea until there suddenly weren’t. There were no outcries over
Syria until there suddenly were.

~~~
filoleg
I feel like the situation at hand is very different. Crimea, unlike Hong Kong,
isn't an alpha+ city that is one of the most important financial hubs in the
world. While capturing Crimea by RF was extremely reprehensible, there was not
much at stake there for any side not directly involved in the conflict. All
there was in Crimea situation is just a geopolitical projection of power. With
Hong Kong, the stakes are way higher, and I don't think that straight up
capture of Hong Kong (Crimea-style) will go over nearly as well.

P.S. Also, not that it makes the situation any less reprehensible, keep in
mind that heavy majority of Crimea population at the time of capture was
ethnically Russian and was supportive of RF actions. Hong Kong residents, on
the other hand, seem to be way less supportive of PRC.

~~~
jedberg
The unfortunate truth is that Hong Kong isn't nearly as important to global
banking as it once was. China has a done a really great job handicapping them,
for this very reason. So that it would be easier to absorb them.

~~~
filoleg
That's the real leverage. Hong Kong's true potential is still there to be
uncovered, and people remember how flourishing it was back then. Imagine how
it could all blow up to even higher highs if the PRC rule was completely gone
from Hong Kong. I feel like if that gate opens in the near future (i know,
wishful thinking), HK will have its new golden age, as companies and
individuals will not need to worry about PRC influence on HK anymore.

~~~
bllguo
HK used to flourish because it was the access point between China and the
West. If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition
anymore... what "higher highs" are you anticipating, exactly?

~~~
filoleg
>If they completely severed ties with China there is no value proposition
anymore

Becoming independent from China != completely severing ties with China. Also,
I think these days a better served purpose of HK is as the access point to the
whole Asian/SEA region, rather than the access point to China alone.

Also, HK seems to be (from an outsider perspective) one of the most (if not
the most) "westernized" cities in the region, with the proliferation of
English language and all, so I can totally see it becoming the central hub in
the Asian/SEA region for a lot of companies from the west.

~~~
pishpash
What is it about post-colonial westerners that makes them not able to grok
that the world, but especially Asia, no longer exists to serve westerners?

Should there be a most "easternized" city in the heart of Europe that should
have a prolific Mandarin speaker base?

~~~
dang
You've been repeatedly crossing into flamewar on these topics. We've asked you
many times before not to do that, and even told you we'd ban you if you did it
again. Would you please stop doing this on HN? It's abusive, no matter how
wrong and ignorant others' comments are or you feel they are.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
soruly
"To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society
are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say
that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of
our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious
or tragic." \-- Assassin's Creed

------
dirtyid
These kids fucked themselves so hard. Entering LegCo will enable the
government to identify (and punish) the most radical elements under HK riot
law. Covering their faces won't stop the government from identifying every
mobile device that entered the building via cell tower, GPS and wifi router
records. Throwing bricks in the public and blending in with the crowd on the
street is one thing, entering an easily geofenced government building with
identifiable mobile devices is another.

~~~
pasabagi
They probably used burner phones. At least, that's what people do in Germany.

~~~
4ad
German people break into the German parliament?

------
craftyguy
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're
> evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or
> disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's
> probably off-topic.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

This is 1) political, 2) on TV news constantly, 3) not really new since
they've been protesting for days now

