
America’s once magical, now mundane love affair with cars - DLay
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/style/2015/09/02/americas-fading-car-culture/?tid=sm_tw
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chestervonwinch
I think it's good to keep in mind that America's "love affair" was more of an
arranged relationship [1]. Maybe this is exaggeration, but I can't help but
wonder what the american cultural landscape would look like today without the
early intense lobbying and power-plays made by those selling and manufacturing
the cars... Or perhaps it was just the case that the time of automobile was
ripe (compared other transit) and bound to be picked by _someone_.

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy)

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josai
The article touched on smartphones, but I think missed a point - a huge part
of the recent "acceptability" of public transport is that people have got
something to do during their trip. In fact I kind of get the feeling people
almost welcome bus/train trips now as a chance to get in some uninterrupted
"phone time"! Previously, unless you brought a book, riding public transport
meant a long look out the window. I think that's huge.

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Nav_Panel
It still does mean this on the US public transportation crown jewel, the NYC
subway, as there's no Internet in the tunnels. So, I still do bring a book or
headphones. However, I think you still make a valid point: I certainly value
the stretch of forced "chill out" time in the middle of a city that never
seems to let up, whereas driving I much more often find to be stressful and
aggravating (in cities at least).

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tracker1
It's kind of funny, more at the end of the day, and in my days off, I really
enjoy driving.. even some heavy traffic doesn't phase me... It's when I'm
trying to get somewhere by a certain time that it gets stressful...

The past couple years I've taken a 7-10 day road trip across part of the
country... It's been very fun and relaxing. I'd much rather drive in a
relatively comfortable car enjoying the scenery than flying, but to each their
own.

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mironathetin
I think the self driving car will finally be the death of the car. What's the
point of owning a car, if you don't drive it? You are put out of control, the
fun is gone, so why pay for it instead of using public transport? (I write
this from a european perspective, where public transport is available).

The only thing I think will make it worth while is this: I drove the car (I
drove!) to my destination, get out and then I can tell the car: 'find a
parking'.

Owning a car stopped being fun 20 years ago (at least). Today, in a big city,
it only enhances the stress level. So as a consequence it makes sense not to
own one (let alone the costs). And it also makes sense that people buy vintage
cars. This can be fun, if you like to tinker and don't have to rely on this
thing to bring you somewhere and in time.

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mdorazio
Out of curiosity, when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car?
I live in California where 99% of my driving is dealing with traffic and road
hazards. The last time I had fun behind the wheel was when I went to New
Zealand on vacation. I suspect that most people in major metropolitan areas
would have more fun browsing facebook on their daily commutes than they
actually do driving.

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mironathetin
"when is the last time you actually had fun driving your car"

I usually have fun looking forward to driving a longer distance. Once I am in
the car, stuck in the usual jam while trying to leave the city, the fun is
gone. And it doesn't come back when the road finally gets empty late in the
evening.

I used to own a convertible. It was fun using it on summer evenings and
nights, in the countryside.

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mdorazio
I'd say that matches a lot of people's experiences as well. I personally think
we'll see "driving" split into two categories: your regular errands and
commute you offload to your self-driving car. Your "fun" driving you plan
ahead for and go to designated areas/roads where you can take the wheel and
drive to your heart's content (without endangering anyone).

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dade_
First a nit: 'Now, he says, “cars have become virtual reality boxes,”
infantilizing the driver. BMW even pipes phony engine noises through its cars’
sound systems...' Chevy and Ford do this too with their trucks at least.

Second: 16 years ago I chose a car loan instead of a student loan. I was
living in a small town and it was a ticket out. It was key to getting a higher
paying job as employers required the mobility. In areas with poor or
nonexistent transit, this is still the case. I live in Toronto now, sold my
car 2 years ago, walk to work and telecommute and use car sharing. Why? Roads
are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying), it is so
easy to rent a car today compared to 20 years ago and the big one: Insurance.
It is prohibitively expensive and I have a perfect driving record. I now rent
out my parking stall, and have more money available to travel and I no longer
have expensive surprise costs for car repairs.

These people are describing a hobby and the author seems to have missed that.

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aianus
> Roads are too congested (I consider commuting in rush our soul destroying)

Drive a motorcycle and filter past all the idling losers. Best feeling in the
world :D

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delinka
Except in some places, this is illegal. And because other drivers know that,
doing it is fraught with danger.

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aianus
It's even more fun when it's illegal. Loser cagers get so mad they look like
they're about to burst a vein in their heads.

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delinka
I'd like a response to the last part of my statement. You do this in my state,
and some other driver 'accidentally' cuts you off, they're not liable because
you shouldn't have been there and they had no [legal] expectation that a two
wheeled vehicle _would_ be there. They get off, you're injured and out a whole
motorcycle, and your insurance is paying for the damage to their vehicle.

~~~
aianus
Never seen it happen, and even if it did it would be worth it for the overall
time savings ($50/h * 50 minutes every work day = $9,000 a year in time
savings).

I would also be very surprised if they're not liable. What if I had been a
bicycle? It's not hard to do reasonably safely.

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nucleardog
> "People talk about the open road," she says, "but in my experience, the road
> is tolls and traffic cameras."

There was a time when if I was having a bad day I'd hit up the highway, roll
down the windows, open up the throttle and just drive for an hour. The sound
of the engine, some wind in your face, isolation and freedom.

Now there are speed cameras everywhere and everyone's driving 25mph under the
speed limit. There is no open road, only frustration.

They complain that our relationship with cars has become very utilitarian...
But that's what our culture has made it. There will be no risk taking. There
will be no excessive pollution. There will be no fun.

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tempodox
Believe it or not, I don't use a car (and never have) in the city where I
live. You may call me a troglodyte, but I call it “ahead of my time”. I get
around without the noise, the exhaust, the waste of space and the gratuitous
danger.

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gadders
Maybe it's a generational thing, but I know several people that have never
bothered to learn to drive. When I grew up in the UK, passing your driving
test was an important rite of passage.

I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit
like never learning to swim.

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dingaling
> I can understand never owning a car, but never learning to drive feels a bit
> like never learning to swim.

The difference being you don't need a license to swim. I can drive a car ( and
agricultural tractor ) but I'm not licensed to do so on the public highway. It
simply isn't worth the cost to me.

In my part of the UK one must take lessons with 'approved' i.e expensive
state-vetted instructors as well as computer-based testing. Then hire of a car
for the actual practical lesson, plus its cost. All-in here it costs about
£3,000 to receive a license in your hand.

And then you can't actually drive on the highway without some form of
insurance, starting at around £900 liability-only for new drivers.

Learning to swim cost me around £90.

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laurencerowe
It shouldn't cost anything like £3,000. I finally got around to learning to
drive 3 years ago as I was moving to the US. All in all it cost maybe £600.

Driving license: £50 Theory test: £25 Practical test: £62 20 lessons @
£20/hour: £400.

Look for an independent instructor, they're cheaper and usually have more
experience than the ones in the big chain driving schools.

Even if you don't plan to own a car straight away, a few years down the line
you'll find your insurance is cheaper just because you've held your license
for several years.

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DanBC
[http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/the-
cost-...](http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/the-cost-of-
learning-to-drive/)

> The average cost of a driving lesson is now £24, and with the DSA (Driving
> Standards Agency) recommending 47 hours of tuition under the supervision of
> a professional instructor, the total cost of lessons for a learner will be
> £1,128.21 Mar 2013

That's not a bare knuckle minimum, but even this is less than the additional
suggested 22 hours private practice (and the learner needs to be insured).

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makosdv
I'm not a car connoisseur like the guys in the article, but I appreciate
beautiful cars. I'm an 'old' Millennial though... I drive a 2011 Synergy Green
Camaro 2SS. I got my license as soon as I turned 16. I've always lived in
smaller towns/cities though, so public transportation is not a very useful
thing and having a car is still very important. I just like the freedom it
provides though as well. I don't fit the 'Millennial' mold though in lots of
other ways, so I'm probably just an outlier.

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oneJob
This is from the Washington Post. If it were from the L.A. Times, maybe it'd
carry some weight with me. Having grown up in south Texas and Arizona and
then, post college, moved to NYC and now Baltimore, I can attest to an
enormous culture divide in car culture between, at least in my experience, the
two regions.

One, it's just not practical to do without a car in the southwest. In many
places, Lyft style services aren't a viable, reliable option for things like
driving yourself and your sisters to school every day and then a part-time job
after. I've yet to come across a smartphone that has this functionality. And,
I'm going to risk making a sweeping generalization here, the stereotypical
Texan parent would look at you sideways if you suggested they be your full-
time chauffeur.

Two, car culture in the southwest is not just about the classics. I mean,
everyone loves a classic, but there is a certain love reserved for your
beater, for the freedom it affords you, and the memories you end up
associating with it. One of my best friends had a '68 Mustang, and it was all
beat to hell. There was a hole rusted through the floor in the back that was
perfect for emptying any beverage should the need suddenly arise. My other
friend in our clique had a Dogde Neon. And I had a wood paneled, 1980's
station wagon, clearly nicknamed "The Woody". Now, the guy in the Mustang
clearly had the coolest vehicle, but the guy in the Neon was the most fun to
be in the passenger seat with, and I was the only one with a car that
basically had a twin bed in the back for making out in. It was high school,
and we placed emphasis on the fun times, not the cars, and the cars ended up
embed with those memories such that I'd never have traded "The Woody" for the
Mustang.

Third, road trips. Honestly, people on the east coast seam to just not be as
familiar with this concept. And, if I have to explain it, well, you won't
understand it. But, some highlights... Calling parents from a pay phone to ask
permission to borrow car for road trip, but, calling from California. Being
tailgated through three states because we pissed off some guy when passing him
in Florida, and hoping we didn't run out of gas before he did, or New Orleans.
Meeting a person from the UK in San Diego, and them taking unplanned road trip
to San Fran, then back to Phienix, AZ. Taking a photo of the speed gauge cause
your going 110 mph, the laughing your ass off cause you somehow didn't notice
the fuel needle was deep into E, and now you're hitch hiking to a gas station
in the middle of nowhere on I-8. The calming emerald glow of an oil refinery
in the middle of a cool South Texas night, windows down, because it's pretty
much always a road trip going anywhere in Texas. Round trip from Tucson, Az to
Charleston, S.C to pick up a friend just getting out of the military, making
sure to stop to bar-b-q on the beach any chance we could afford. I could go
on.

Phones will not replace that. Phones will not replace tailgating. Parents are
not a substitute for a drivers license. Public transit could never have
provided me such memories. And I'm saying all this as a fierce advocate of
bike commuting and public transit. Gas cars will certainly go the way of
hitchhiking, but America is too big and has too many amazing pockets of
culture and adventure for the car, or whatever fills its role in the future,
not to have a place in our lives that is far, far from mundane.

~~~
mdorazio
I'll over some rebuttals to your points:

Which parts of Texas/Arizona are we talking about? Remember, over 70% of
Americans lived in Urbanized Areas (high density metro areas) in 2010, and
that number is growing year over year [1]. There is definitely a cultural
divide between these areas and more open/spacious areas with respect to cars,
but I think it's easy to make the case that for the large majority of
Americans (especially those in younger demographics), self-driving cars will
be a relief.

I'm pretty sure there is a strong generational divide with respect to car
love. I can't quite pin down where the split is, but I suspect that somewhere
between Gen X and Gen Y, a lot of people stopped having a fondness for their
cars in the way that you're expressing. That's not to say there aren't car
lovers/gear heads in younger generations, but a lot of younger drivers just
don't see cars as major status symbols, or see their own cars as more than
commodities.

I'm with you on road trips. That's one of the great american vacations, and
there are a lot of beautiful things to see from the road. I think what we'll
see is services pop up that specifically cater to this market, with unlimited
miles and specialized routes/options that let you stop anywhere you want along
the way.

[1] [https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/urban-
rural-2010.htm...](https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/urban-
rural-2010.html)

~~~
douche
They did stop making cars that could be considered in any way stylish or
beautiful. It doesn't help that modern cars are almost impossible to work on
for anything but trivial repairs, now that they are so complex and
computerized. In high school, I drove an old beater of a '85 F150, which was
almost completely electro-mechanical. With a little know-how, a high-lift
jack, and a basic set of mechanics tools, you could take the entire thing
apart to the frame and put it back together. Many modern cars, you can't even
change the oil without taking it to a garage with factory certified
technicians. My '07 F150, you can't even change the spark plugs without taking
half the engine apart, and then you need to have the proprietary computer
system to re-calibrate the electronic timing.

~~~
WWLink
My 2015 wrangler seems to use the same torx screw for almost everything there
is, and the best part is it came with a nice torx driver wrench with several
heads in a little canvas tool kit lol.

I think you have to shop around to find cars that are easy to work on, but
it's not impossible. On my chrysler 300 the spark plugs are right on top of
the engine lol

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timonoko
It is weird they always mention Linus Torvald's car in American interviews. We
frequently learn it is a German brand, one preferred by European taxi drivers
and drug pushers and with somekind of personalized license plate. Did he have
a car in Finland, or did he even have a driver's license? -- Nobody cared.

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aianus
> Plus, there’s the sky-high cost of car insurance, an average of $1,800 a
> year in the Washington area and $1,100 nationwide.

Haha that's nothing. I paid $4600 liability-only on my first car in Waterloo,
ON, Canada. Could have taken taxis everywhere for half that but I was young
and wanted to show off :P

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tyoma
The article mentions a decline in teeneger licenses. A big part of this is
graduated licensing programs that most (all?) states introduced. Why get a
license if you can only effectively use it to get to/from school?

