
Ask HN: Is it possible to create something significant without being a jerk? - tablet
It seems almost all famous leaders of IT companies had quite bad personality and squeeze people to get shit done. Do you believe it is a must for any great company?
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adventured
You can absolutely create something amazing without being a jerk. Take a look
at what James Goodnight and John Sall did with SAS. They're worth a combined
$12 billion.

"SAS ranks No. 2 on 2014 Fortune list of Best Companies to Work For in the US"

[http://www.sas.com/en_us/news/press-
releases/2014/january/gr...](http://www.sas.com/en_us/news/press-
releases/2014/january/great-workplace-US-Fortune-2014.html)

Or take a look at what David Duffield has done, with both PeopleSoft before
and Workday now. He's known to be an exceptional nice guy.

"Workday Named #1 Best Place to Work in the Bay Area"

[http://www.workday.com/company/news_events/press_releases/de...](http://www.workday.com/company/news_events/press_releases/detail.php?id=1579582#.VYRNvkbc1kg)

Gordon Moore was the President and then CEO of Intel for years, and is a nice
guy.

Pierre Omidyar founded and ran eBay early on, and is a nice guy.

Jan Koum and Bryan Acton are not jerks, they created a vast success with
WhatsApp.

Jerry Yang and David Filo are nice guys.

Kevin Systrom of Instagram isn't a jerk.

Nick Woodman of GoPro isn't known for being a jerk.

There are a lot of good examples.

~~~
tablet
Then I am not doomed... Good.

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davismwfl
I second the being a jerk and making tough calls isn't the same thing. But
when you are learning and younger the difference is less clear. I would think
the Steve Jobs of the 1980's while he was learning to lead was a bit more of
an asshole then he was in his later years. That doesn't mean he still didn't
push people etc but my bet is he learned and became less of a "jerk" without
giving up on his visions. Mind you I know nothing specific other than what I
have read about him.

The truly amazing leaders are the ones who you will not only follow into the
fire, but when you come out burned you are already signed up for the next
round. They aren't abusive, jerks or anything of the sort. Unless they do this
to you needlessly and repeatedly, then they are not even respectful of
themselves.

I personally have lived by this rule, I won't ask anyone to do something I am
not willing to do or help them do. Doesn't mean I can do it necessarily, but I
would do my best. For me, this generally removes people feeling squeezed, they
may feel I am a pain sometimes, but they know I will do it too. I do my best
to listen as well, but I do feel that people have taken advantage of me at
times because I will generally give them the benefit of the doubt for a little
to long.

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meesterdude
Yes, it is possible. DHH and Jason fried, creators of basecamp, are nice guys.
Is that "significant"? I don't know.

What you need is to deliver. An easy way is to treat them poorly, and it works
to some degree. The hard way is to treat them with respect and support, but
that takes more work; although offers better results.

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atmosx
Being a Jerk and making tough decisions are two different things.

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college_rules
You have to be risk-averse, yet bold. And you have to watch your back all the
time. My first attempt at business at the age of 22 ended up with someone I
trusted stabbing me in the back and filing a lawsuit for $25k. I had to file
personal bankruptcy to get out of that one. Business will make you tough and
assertive or it will kill you.

~~~
college_rules
One more thing. I don't like the phrasing of being a jerk. Not everyone who is
successful is a jerk. What more successful people have is a drive towards
product and operations perfection that trumps everything else. The idea of
excellence and the pursuit of it causes leaders to fire people, expect only
the best results, and really throw any inefficiency in the trash. It sounds
ruthless and it might be, but that is where this jerk persona lives.

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rifung
Yes, Notch made something significant (Minecraft) and as far as I can tell is
very far from a jerk.

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mrcold
No, it's almost impossible without being a jerk. This personality trait is a
requirement for succeeding.

And it's mostly because of the way capitalism works. Once you enter the
market, you're automatically forced to turn a profit or get investments. If
you don't, you die. Competition is also pretty fierce. You may choose to play
by the rules, but others choose not to. So you can easily get killed.

Customers also become your worst enemy. They are forced by the market to buy
cheap instead of good. So you're now in a race to the bottom. Plus, the entire
market is volatile. Things can change almost instantly. One well targeted
review or article can either make you or break you.

So when your entire success is built on a tower of cards, only by being
ruthless can you make the climb. We could have had megabit internet 30 years
ago. But instead we got AOL and Comcast. People can spin it any way they like.
But in the end, actions talk louder than words.

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dylanjermiah
>No, it's almost impossible without being a jerk. This personality trait is a
requirement for succeeding.

Every successful person is a jerk?

>Customers also become your worst enemy. They are forced by the market to buy
cheap instead of good.

Price is not the only metric by which people buy a product. There are a large
amount of variables which play into a purchasing decision. Also, no one is
forced. You choose what to purchase.

>So when your entire success is built on a tower of cards,

Another large and untrue generalisation.

>We could have had megabit internet 30 years ago. But instead we got AOL and
Comcast.

Please explain this further.

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romanovcode
It's not about IT, it's about running a company.

You start a company and become a success - you get a lot of enemies that want
to destroy you. Overtime you try the best you can but you cannot please
everyone.

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joe563323
What about Elon Musk ? Jerk or Not ?

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lgieron
Just look at Steve Wozniak.

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anon3_
Can you elaborate on some examples of those famous leaders and what they did?

~~~
tablet
Jobs, Musk, Kalanick (Uber CEO)

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dylanjermiah
Three data points(whether they're true or not) is not any indicator of the
necessity to be a 'jerk'.

