
Ask HN: How can I realize my dream of working for Google with a limited resume? - GugelGui
I'm a talented 20 year old developer from portland with 10 years of programming experience, but only 2 years of realistic things to put on my resume. I've known for a very long time that working for Google was one of my biggest life goals, but feel right now that I'm stuck worrying about ruining my chances by applying with a resume that truly doesn't showcase my full talent or ability.<p>I'm currently working for a portland startup where I am not undervalued, but I feel somewhat trapped.<p>I know where I'd like to work for Google, I know what I'd like to work on, but I can't seem to get any google employees to give me any solid direction beyond "submit your resume".<p>What do you guys suggest?
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throwaway420
You're just 20. You have a long time to fulfill your dream. Don't stress out
over this or overthink this. If you want to, apply. If you don't make it,
apply a few years later. They won't reject your application if you eventually
become experienced enough to contribute there.

Also, I wouldn't recommend putting Google on a pedestal. Working at Google is
nice and prestigious and all, but you'll deal with a lot of dumb bullshit at
any big company you work at, including Google. Google might be very
prestigious and all, but having an important role in a startup in Portland can
lead to a much nicer overall lifestyle.

~~~
eplanit
To the OP -- the below (and above) is well-stated, and cannot be
overemphasized.

"Also, I wouldn't recommend putting Google on a pedestal. Working at Google is
nice and prestigious and all, but you'll deal with a lot of dumb bullshit at
any big company you work at, including Google. Google might be very
prestigious and all, but having an important role in a startup in Portland can
lead to a much nicer overall lifestyle."

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mindcrime
First of all, I absolutely agree with what throwaway420 said about not putting
Google on a pedestal. I wouldn't advocate making _any_ company (other than one
you start yourself) such a "huge life goal". Yeah, Google have a lot going for
them, but I'll bet you there's plenty of negatives about working there as
well. And as big as they are now, there's no way there isn't a significant
level of bureaucracy and typical corporate B.S. Just read some of
michaelochurch's comments[1] here on HN sometime for a different view of
Google from the inside.

Anyway, that said, if I specifically wanted to target Google, I'd do this:
Find one of the many OSS projects that Google run, and get involved. Start
submitting patches, get your patches accepted, and become a valued contributor
to the team. Make it a point to follow Google emmployees on G+, Twitter,
whatever, and pay attention to what they're sharing and discussing. If you see
an interesting topic, bone up on it. Read the various Google blogs. Stay on
top of what topics Google are showing an interest in and become knowledgeable
on this stuff. Post share stuff on G+, Twitter, etc. that demonstrates your
knowledge in these various areas. Network with all the Google employees you
can (without doing any creepy stalkerish stuff!) and build credibility with
them. At some point, if you do all this right, they'll probably start trying
to recruit you!

Bonus option two: Start a startup that gets acquired by Google.

[1]: <http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=michaelochurch>

~~~
argonaut
Just a side note: I'm not sure if I really trust michaelochurch's comments
anymore. Any time I begin reading a comment bashing Google's hiring practices,
with the bashing done in a very specific way, I play a little game with myself
by telling myself "this was written by michaelochurch." 9/10 times I'm right.
There was one thread where several other commenters said (claimed) they had
worked at Google during michaelochurch's time there, and that basically a lot
of the trouble that occurred was partly his fault.

So I don't know who to believe anymore.

~~~
mindcrime
Sure, I wouldn't say to take everything he says as "gospel" truth. But he
certainly provides another perspective to counter-balance the "Google is
amazing, everything is perfect here and the streets are paved with gold" kinda
fanboi'ism that sometimes crops up.

~~~
argonaut
Ok, agreed.

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tatvamasi
It seems like what you need an external validation of your talents which can
be put on your resume. Some examples of such validation include: \- Start
contributing to open source. Start with small bug fixes but quickly move to
some real, solid work. You'll lean a ton along the way and will get the
validation you need. \- If you are a frontend engineer, put out some demos
publicly accessible on the Internet. Let people know what you can build. To
add on the top, put the code on github and help others who want to reuse it.

In parallel, start cultivating relationships with Google employees in the area
of your interest. Attend meetups where they may be present. Tell them things
that you are working on and get their advice on how you can improve.

Somewhere along the way in this path, you will be a better and well-networked
programmer that great tech companies won't afford to ignore.

------
michaelpinto
I think the real problem is that you feel "somewhat trapped". From what I can
see in tech circles working at Google is like getting into Harvard. So my
thoughts are if that's the case:

1\. Network and find a google employee or ex-google employee (they all hang
out on G+ by the way) and ask anyone to look at resume and tell you what the
weak points are, and ask if said things can be improved. But be ready to hear
the truth.

2\. I think your real problem is that you feel trapped. Maybe the way to solve
this is to work for an A level company in Silicon Valley? Maybe you can't get
a job with Google, but maybe you can get a job with some other company in the
Google orbit (example: Samsung is opening a campus). Also I'd be open to other
companies because at least if you aren't at Harvard you can still go to
another Ivy League school if you know what I mean.

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lnanek2
Google will actually hire people right out of school if they are good enough.
One Googler I talked to phrased it as, they have enough money to hire someone
who will only hit their stride several years later. Most companies don't have
this ability, they need to hire someone with maximum experience for their
dollar immediately.

It probably helps Google in another way in that their culture is kind of cut
off and different. Most of my experience is in enterprise Java and it's always
weird talking to Googlers who were never really a part of the rise of
Dependency Injection with Spring, unchecked exceptions with Hibernate, etc.,
etc.. Sort of like how they don't use C++ exceptions if you are a C++ guy. So
growing their own talent has advantages in that the talent won't expect the
more common public practices that Google missed out on.

------
alfasin
You should read this: [http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-
at-goog...](http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-
google.html)

------
kgc
Do a startup and get acquired by Google, or any decent public company really.
This is what I would have wished someone told me at your stage in life.

------
keefe
I'm a talented 32 year old with 24 years programming experience, but only 16
years of realistic things to put on my resume :] So, I was in a similar
position back in the days of dinosaurs where we had to learn our coding
primarily from dead trees...

I'd like to offer you a few pieces of advice that would have saved my ass if
I'd listened to the numerous people telling me them at your age :

1) Don't rush, google's not going anywhere, take a long term view of your
career and don't get too identified with your job. If you're not a founder,
this isn't your magnum opus - you're there to help someone else realize their
dream and learn in the process. Every month you stay there is more money, more
experience, more credibility. If you are feeling trapped, try to find
something you can learn from what you are doing and recognize that you're
experiencing something very common. When we first start on a new software
project, we are learning at a very high rate and once we get into the daily
grind, that thrill goes away. If you push through it, you may find a kind of
beautiful zen calm that is just one of the best feelings in the world and you
can find it almost anywhere. that being said...

2) There's nothing wrong with looking for a new job while you have a job,
provided you make it clear why you are looking and that you will need time to
organize your current work if you choose to change. Don't tell your company
about it - it feels weird at first, but it's your private business. Staying
professional and detached while doing creative work is one of the many
secondary skills you will need.

3) It my be different for your generation, but in my experience talented
programmers that are passionate about the craft are rare and valuable and are
often the mythical high productivity multiple engineer from the mythical man
month. The question is, how can you prove your skills to someone else? It's
important to note I said skills, not (so much) potential - it's about what you
can build. The real answer imho is you can show code, you can show demos and
you can get vouched for by other people in the high productivity club. I've
found a great sense of community with other early childhood programmers, which
is why I took the time out of an overscheduled work day to try and give you an
advice.

4) Where's your code? Any open source contributions? TopCoder? I want to see
artifacts. A particularly useful artifact is a git repository for a project
that would be reasonable to complete in one week. This shows how you solve
problems and what you can accomplish in a typical work week. If you're highly
productive, this will be impressive. If not, then you can show it to people
and learn where you can improve.

5) As far as google specifically, google employees aren't going to give you
much insight because they have to sign NDAs and they work there and actually
you have to sign an NDA just to interview. Plus, those people that don't make
it aren't as likely to volunteer information on the process. They apparently
care very much about your fit in their culture and your enthusiasm for the
company and interest in their products. Next, it's about your problem solving
abilities and particularly data structures and algorithms - checkout a course
on coursera or algorithmist. You really need to hit those hard for their kind
of work and also learn how to answer questions like this : Given {data
structure} execute {algorithm} but do it with {very large data set, very low
latency requirements, using a large cluster}.

6) Remember, be just aggressive enough! Once you are all prepped so you know
that you will do well in a phone conversation, start sending emails, making
calls and talking on linked in. Be polite but persistent, send links to your
work and resume and request 30 minutes of an engineer's time for a phone
screen because you're passionate, you're talented and you're exactly what they
are looking for. If that doesn't work, find some people somewhere that work at
google or that used to work there and send them a note offering to take them
to lunch for an informational interview and make your goal understanding not
just the hiring process, but the company, it's technology and its
organization. (this is a common technique where you are just asking to meet
with them for their expertise, most people say yes to flattery and free lunch)
Google has their engineers spend their first bit of time reading papers, so
try and find that paper list and start reading it. Keep on doing this, build
and maintain those relationships and pretty soon you will strike up a
friendship and then it's time to leverage that to get an on sight interview.

I don't know you at all, but it seems like you are doing very well. You could
be concurrently enrolled in college, launching your own project, networking
with other engineers and building a web presence or polishing skills that must
need some of that at your age. If you are feeling trapped, I'd separate that
feeling from the decision about whether to stay at your current job.
Professional decisions should be made heartlessly, as much as possible.

If you are unhappy or just really into google, well find a way to make your
code demonstrable in any of a million ways : Write some weekend project that
uses a google API, win a topcoder contest, contribute to open source, continue
your education and get involved in research projects.

anyway, I have spent far too much time on this, so obviously my altruism is
leaking into procrastination... I hope somebody finds it helpful and it just
doesn't go into the black hole :]

