Ask HN: What are good tech jobs that don't require being good at interviewing? - ccdev
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lprubin
Nepotism can be your friend. Meet people through meetups, open source
projects, conferences, non-profit volunteer work, etc. When people know and
respect you already and you have an internal champion, the interview process
often is much smoother. You'll be more confortable too when you know them. You
might even bypass some of the process as well.

~~~
bshimmin
I think the word "networking" (not usually a negative) would fit better than
"nepotism" (almost always seen as a negative) here. Hiring your friends -
ahead of other candidates who might be better qualified - might well be
considered nepotism, but going out of your way to make friends with people in
the hope that they might hire you probably isn't nepotism as most people would
understand it.

~~~
CoolGuySteve
The problem is that "networking" as a term has been diluted to mean "introduce
yourself to powerful strangers" as opposed to "build a network of people in
your industry that respect you".

With a good network, you can find a job. With good networking, you have a nice
Rolodex without much influence.

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sotojuan
Wrong question - the right question is "which companies don't have the typical
whiteboard interview". Mine didn't, and it's a regular software engineer job.

Here's a list of some - never used it but was on here a while back:

[https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-
whiteboards](https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards)

~~~
ccdev
_Wrong question - the right question is "which companies don't have the
typical whiteboard interview"._

Wrong assumption - the majority of my on-site interviews don't even use
whiteboards. They involve discussing real world problems and work experiences
with me. I still do not get offers from them.

~~~
martijndwars
To be honest, I agree with the parent that the question is wrong. No company
wants employees that are bad at interviewing. No company wants employees that
are bad at anything, in fact.

Maybe it helps to contact the company that rejected you and ask them why they
rejected you. This would allow you to narrow down your weaknesses and improve
these skills. I've never tried this myself, so I'm not sure how common such a
request is, but it seems like a sensible thing to do.

~~~
bjelkeman-again
I don't think you will get very straight answers from most.

~~~
Clubber
Or even a response for that matter.

~~~
dabockster
Or, if you do get a response, it's usually a "can't sue me" copout like "not
enough experience" or "wrong cultural fit".

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redleggedfrog
This might sound a little strange, but I would say programming. I have worked
in the industry 25+ years now, and I've never had what I would call an
interview. I've had informal lunches with the CIO, met the team at BBQ's, like
that, but never anything more rigorous. On top of that, I'm fairly
introverted, and don't have many friends, but I do have a large number of
acquaintances, I'm known to be a good and loyal employee (I don't switch jobs
near as often as the norm) and have kept up my skills (I hope) fairly well.
I've gotten jobs because people knew about me, essentially, so it can be done.

I kind of fear when I actually have to do an interview. I'm hoping I make it
to the end of my career before that happens.

~~~
dsuth
This is similar to me, but for engineering. Getting jobs via networking is
much, much easier than cold-calling an interview.

Talk to your friends and workmates, ex-managers etc. If you've done good work
in the past, people will be happy to get you in on the fast track. Companies
hate doing interviews, so anything they can do to streamline that process they
will generally do.

I'd broaden that to networking in general. Tech presentations also raise your
profile, especially with manager types who attend.

~~~
ccdev
Every friend, colleague and former manager that I talk to has either lead to
an interview (so I still don't skip interviewing) which I don't pass, but most
of the time they just give me the same basic reply of: "I don't know of any
job openings but I'll keep an eye out". No matter what time of the year, no
matter how they're doing.

I am at a loss for networking ideas.

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yesimahuman
Starting a startup. Honestly, the lack of control I felt at interviewing at
the top tech firms back in college and my only average GPA was a big motivator
for me to start my own business. I hated the idea that my career was out of my
control and would depend on whether I could answer challenging interview
questions under stress or my GPA/school. This was also at the peak of the
ridiculous mythical word problems Microsoft, Google, et al were known for, and
those were not my forte whatsoever.

Best decision I ever made

~~~
tedmiston
For another perspective, my GPA was at the top of my graduating class in CS
but I still had a similar train of thought as you. I fundamentally
philosophically disagreed with how broken interviewing in the tech industry is
especially at the bigger companies.

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RickS
Depends on what part of the interviewing process is slowing you down.

Your other comment indicates that your question is not "what jobs interview
with day-to-day challenges rather than google-scale hypotheticals"

>They involve discussing real world problems and work experiences with me. I
still do not get offers from them.

The question should not be "how do I run from this problem"

It is first "how do i get a credible assessment of why I didn't receive
offers"

and then "how do I build or repair that area of my skills"

This applies equally if not especially to "soft skills" aka "how am I
perceived by other humans".

edit: I poked back into your history and it seems that you figured this out
with your question from ~20 days ago. That's the right thread to pull IMO and
it looks like that post got some responses. I'd say keep pushing in that area
- sub one month is a very short timeline for both personal growth and varied
interview rounds.

~~~
ccdev
My soft skills are good enough on the job. I hardly get complaints about
communication issues with co-workers and also have taken part in client
meetings at some companies, discussing their goals and requirements. I keep on
track with everyone that is needed for a project.

But almost everything about soft skills on a job interview feels too
orthogonal and dissimilar to my applied work soft skills. Interviews like that
are more suited for sales jobs, I think. Sales skills seem like they have been
put on a pedestal. Therefore I cannot see these interviews as an accurate
representation of most soft skills at work.

Edit: Also about my older thread, are you referring to the one about returning
to an office job after 2 years of being away from it? I really do feel like
this is what I need and almost all the jobs I apply to require daily 9-5
office work. I'm a homebody and hang out only with 3 people regularly. It
remains to be seen on the "when" of I'll get that kind of job.

~~~
abeyer
> My soft skills are good enough on the job. I hardly get complaints about
> communication issues

This isn't about you, I don't know you, and you may well be the exception to
this. But, given that; in my experience everyone I've ever met in person who
claims that their social skills are not why their (not just coding) interview
skills are lacking is wrong. Often they're wrong because they don't even
realize it, because their peers know that communications skills are lacking
and then don't even raise the issue to avoid the possibility of a (quite
common) poor reception of the feedback. Don't assume the lack of criticism as
an endorsement. If someone thinks you lack something technically but have
strong communication, they'll tell you that. If someone thinks you lack
communication skills, they'll do their best to avoid treading on the viper,
because they don't know how you'll respond.

> But almost everything about soft skills on a job interview feels too
> orthogonal and dissimilar to my applied work soft skills. Interviews like
> that are more suited for sales jobs, I think.

I'm not even 100% sure what you mean by that, but I read it as "I don't really
need the skills you think I do." Again, I'm not sure that's what you meant,
but as a disinterested third party, if I read it that way, I'd be surprised if
some interviewers don't.

~~~
ccdev
> their peers know that communications skills are lacking and then don't even
> raise the issue to avoid the possibility of a (quite common) poor reception
> of the feedback.

That's an interesting thought. It never occurred to me that feedback on
technical skills is more commonly given than feedback on communication skills.
How did you discover that?

Also, withholding certain kinds of feedback because of fear of reprisal does
not seem like an effective way to manage or improve your employees. So they'd
rather fire you without telling you how you needed to improve? That doesn't
sound like good management to me and it sounds like these are the types of
managers I should avoid.

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drumttocs8
You are being interviewed to see if you have the technical skills to do the
job, and to see how you well you interact with other people. You must learn to
be confident and friendly. These are foundational skills.

~~~
ccdev
Why do some people (which includes me, I guess) have poorer foundational
skills while being better at certain specialized field-specific skills, such
as programming?

~~~
fundingshovel
You most likely work on your field specific skills orders of magnitude more
often/intensely. What have you done to develop your foundational skills in
general? Where are you weak? Where are you strong? What have you studied
recently to make them better?

~~~
ccdev
I am weak in closing the deal with job interviews, mainly. However I don't
know what is the average ratio of offers to interviews for developers applying
to mid-level jobs.

So I guess you're saying I should be studying people skills, I guess? I often
hear that I need to get mock interviews but there are few official sources for
it. Also it's not very instructive to tell someone to just find any friend.
Most people do not have experience interviewing programmers, so they wouldn't
be good for mock interviews. And mock interviewing with friends would
introduce too much of a positive bias you won't have from strangers.

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tiggybear
Work for yourself?

Whenever we need to hit consultants for some work, we NEVER make them do
technical exercises. We just trust their word.

However, the people that want a steady paycheck are put through much more
tedious tasks for less pay.

~~~
brianwawok
The last place I worked with consultant hiring.. an employee hire was like a
full day of interviews.. consultant hire was 30 minute phone screen "Do you
know what an ArrayList is"?

Logic being it was very easy to fire bad consultants. Employees it was more
work.

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sandworm101
The armed forces are screaming for tech people and really dont care about your
interview skills. The US marines are even talking about dropping thier basic
training requirements IOT get more tech people.

~~~
jarsin
Don't they have low age requirements?

~~~
abeyer
Yes. That said, most military recruitment requirements are requirements in the
same way that "10 years of React experience" is a requirement... They ask for
the world and make exceptions to get the people they want. But the bigger the
exception, the more bureaucracy you should expect to wade through to make it
happen.

~~~
ccdev
Well I'm not certain what that age limit is, but their requirements sound
strict. FWIW I am 34 years old.

------
brianwawok
I would get better at interviewing. I know sounds not helpful but its a useful
skill.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Pretty much this. Once you get to the point that interviews are fun, you look
forward to them.

~~~
carlmr
I'd phrase it this way. If you're nervous and fumble interviews, don't stop
going. Go to more interviews instead. After a while you'll be so used to it
that your body stops reacting that way.

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tiredwired
Startups and companies where technology is not their main product seem to have
easier interview processes. If you can find a company that is contracting out
their tech and wants to start developing in-house then they do not necessarily
have a rigid tech hiring process.

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kclay
I was just going to post something along this line.. I've been to the 3-4th
stage many times it it all falls when I have to do a video call.. every time (
about 25 interviews so far over the course of 4months). At this point I'm
starting to think its more of a "culture" fit then anything else which I
really dont like to think about. All of these are remote jobs which is odd
cause they dont even have to see me or know my race. Even tried to apply to
local jobs, no luck.

But after having pass tech tests, multiple calls and had people very impress
about my 10year career its hard to see anything else then the word "culture"
in these instances.

~~~
busterarm
At any in-person shop or gig you'd have to relocate for, that video call would
be your 2nd stage.

I think you're a victim of the process and sheer numbers, tbh. Keep at it and
you'll probably land something remote.

~~~
kclay
I guess so, but in one instance I had 2 video interviews in one day with a
total of 4 devs( all of the devs of the team). So it seems like it was both a
tech interview (which I answered all their questions and was impressed) and
then a "culture" test.

Thru take home test passing, inital 2 calls with people then video calls
afterwards just to fail just seems odd but maybe I'm overthinking it. Local
interviews havn't been well either. They tend to fall apart in the second call
(not video). Seems like most people dont do in-shop interview but all over the
net now.

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muzani
All my jobs were from people I met. Even when they have some interview, I get
offered the job before the interview, and the interviews are rigged to let me
pass.

I normally get filtered out of phone interviews for some reason, with no
technical questions. I do perfectly fine when it's a technical interview. I
guess I just don't have an attractive personality.

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jmcminis
Founder, CTO. Lots of other requirements though.

