
The Latin America WikiLeaks Files - cryoshon
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/latin-america-wikileaks-hugo-chavez-rafael-correa-obama-venezuela-intervention/
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jayess
As an American I am disturbed by my country's foreign policy as it relates to
Latin America, largely over the last half of the 20th century. But propaganda
cuts both ways. I have a hard time taking an article like this seriously when
it simply hand-waves away the complete meltdown of the Venezuelan economy as a
result of "right-wing student protests" and not the complete failed socialism
and soft totalitarianism of Chavez.

\---

"In Venezuela, where a dysfunctional currency control system has generated
high inflation, _violent right-wing student protests seriously destabilized
the country._ The odds are extremely high that some of these protestors have
received funding and/or training from USAID or NED, which saw its Venezuela
budget increase 80 percent from 2012 to 2014."

~~~
asgard1024
> But propaganda cuts both ways

You are absolutely correct. But wouldn't the U.S. behave badly, people in
Venezuela would perhaps have little reason to vote for soft totalitarians like
Chavez.

(I also think Hitler rose to power partly because he was one of the few
politicians who were willing to call BS on the Germany's WW1 debt.)

I am not actually sure this will 100% prevents rise of authoritarians (given
what is going on in Hungary), however, there is some difference in ideology,
and also success, if you compare Marshall doctrine to Washington consensus.

Nations get a free pass on behaving badly abroad because of nationalism. Then
they get more that they bargained for. Actually, when I think of it, this
dynamic is not just between states, it also happens in different social
classes as well (for example, policy of being tough on unemployed or drug
users, which ultimately makes things worse).

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marcoperaza
The article completely ignores the real reasons for US opposition to Castro,
Allende, Chavez, Correa, Morales, et al. They were and are autocrats with
programs of economic and social destruction. Critics are beaten and thrown in
jail, wide swaths of the economy nationalized, wealth destroyed. Their
economic programs lead only to empty shelves in supermarkets and widespread
destitution and crime. In Venezuela, the murder rate is up 400-500% from when
Chavez first took over. They can only find allies in the world among other
enemies of human prosperity.

I think JFK captured the guiding principles best:

    
    
      Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill,
      that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any
      hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the
      survival and the success of liberty. [...] Let all our
      neighbors know that we shall join with them to oppose
      aggression or subversion anywhere in the Americas. And let
      every other power know that this Hemisphere intends to
      remain the master of its own house.
    

Sometimes it's led to difficult and morally dubious decisions, like US support
for Pinochet's coup against Allende in Chile. But we should consider the
counterfactual. What if Allende had stayed in power? Chile would not be the
beacon of stability and growth that it is today. Based on Allende's
relationships with Castro and the Soviet Union, it would probably be a lot
like Castro's Cuba, a society totally hollowed out by communism.

As an aside, the characterization of the situation in Greece is completely
inaccurate too. Membership in the euroclub requires fiscal responsibility;
governments can no longer rely on running the print presses to pay their debt.
Greece continued to waste money it did not have, and was refusing the demands
for budget discipline from the countries that were keeping it afloat.

~~~
retrogradeorbit
Aside from the fact that you seem quite ignorant of history ("success of
liberty", are you kidding me?), what business is it of the US? When will the
US stop sticking it's nose in other's business? What would be it's reaction if
the reverse were happening, if a foreign global power were constantly meddling
in American affairs? Why does America always think it knows what's best for
everyone else? And why is what's best always more US corporate intervention?

Like ok, we get it, the US is your country, and you can completely fuck up
your own republic and turn it into a surveilled and controlled human zoo
dedicated to the worship of mammon. But stop going and fucking everyone else's
country.

~~~
marcoperaza
If not America, then who? The Soviet Union would have turned a lot of Latin
America into their imperial possessions, like they did in Cuba and Eastern
Europe. Today, the regimes that would fill the void left by an American
retreat from leadership are hostile and much less concerned with elections and
human rights than the US.

On a personal note, I can only wish that the US had intervened more
successfully against Castro in Cuba, the home that my family and millions of
others have fled to America from.

~~~
saint_fiasco
>If not America, then who?

How about the people who actually live there? I get that sometimes the people
of a country can be helpless against an oppressor and need foreign aid, but
people in Chile actually voted for Allende. It's not the same as Cuba.

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mschuster91
Nothing new, it's just solid confirmation of what pretty much everyone
suspected since long ago :/

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tremols
So this joke repeated through decades never gets old. Its been like 50 years
since the times of nationalist dictators, its 50 years ruled by U.S backed
leftists, yep.. the same who have created the skirts of misery: ghettos and
fabelas.

It should be obvious by now that USA will support the left wing if it fits
with its agenda. There you have WW2 and polpot to mention just a few extreme
historical cases.

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werber
I personally love the Jacobin, but I wish their tone and vocabulary was more
populist..? I always feel like I need to find another article that says the
same thing written differently to pass it on to the more conservative people
in my life.

~~~
Altay-
I'm subscribed to Jacobin and the writing style certainly feels as though they
are preaching to the choir rather than trying to persuade anyone.

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dep_b
Pretty heavy if this is true. How reliable is this site?

~~~
onli
That describes normal US-politic in latin-america since at least 60 years,
nothing is new.

The site seems solid, see also
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_%28magazine%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin_%28magazine%29),
and the facts described are correct (for example the initial description of
what happened with Greece is spot-on).

