
OpenVMS on x86 - gjvc
https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/
======
jabl
So VMS has gone full circle in terms of target architecture type. CISC (VAX)
-> RISC (Alpha) -> VLIW (IA-64) -> CISC (x86).

~~~
doctor_eval
So... given what’s happened to most of those architectures, should we take it
as a bad omen that it’s been ported to x86?

~~~
doctor_eval
Well yes I should have said “a bad omen for x86”. I’ve never been a fan of the
ISA but then the last time I tried it was 8086...

Let’s just hope they don’t port OpenVMS to ARM and RISC-V :)

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aap_
My (not quite serious) hope is that this will kill x86. After all every other
architecture it ever supported died a mysterious death.

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082349872349872
Does OpenVMS still support logging out via 'DISCODUCK'?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWhozyOoZQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWhozyOoZQ)

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malux85
Please, I hope this is a thing. If not, I'll code the implementation.

~~~
082349872349872
Looks like it ought to still be a thing:

[http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/odl/vax/opsys/vmsos73/vmsos73/648...](http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/odl/vax/opsys/vmsos73/vmsos73/6489/6489pro_005.html)

> "You can abbreviate a command as long as the abbreviated name remains unique
> among the defined commands on a system. DCL looks only at the first four
> characters for uniqueness."

and since max command line length seems to be a few K, the masochistic could
try instead:

    
    
        $ DISCIPLINEOFPROGRAMMING
    

(are there any other 1976 things in the equivalence set of DISC _ONNECT_?)

~~~
unixhero
What is this thing? What is this for?

~~~
geraldcombs
DCL is VMS's command line interface. Commands start with full-on verbs (set,
copy, define, print, ...). You can use partial strings in commands as long as
they are unique (e.g. "set def" instead of "set default"). Imagine being able
to type "pyth" at a bash prompt and it running python.

What I think the previous posts are referring to (and which I don't remember
from my DCL days) is that apparently DCL only checks the first four characters
for uniqueness, so "disc", "discoduck" and "discgolf" match the "disconnect"
command.

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tyingq
You can still occasionally find a Vaxstation 3000 for under $300 on eBay, if
you're interested in being a purist.

~~~
rst
However, current VMS releases won't run on a VAX, and there's no plan to
change that. See their FAQ (which links to the product roadmap for projected
future releases):

[https://vmssoftware.com/about/faq/#faq5](https://vmssoftware.com/about/faq/#faq5)

(I dimly recall reading someplace that they haven't done a VAX build in so
long that some of the build chain has suffered bitrot, and some VAX-specific
innards might have been misplaced.)

~~~
tyingq
Sure. I'm in the space that doesn't care about that. This whole COVID
isolation thing revived an interest in retro computing for me. So I've ordered
and repaired/hacked 8+ old CPM, classic mac, RISC Unix, etc computers since
March.

It's a little out of control (space/attention wise) now, to where I need to
sell the things I've fixed and start a new batch. VAX/VMS might be a good next
candidate.

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synack
Is there a case to be made for developing new software on VMS or is this
purely for legacy applications?

~~~
throw0101a
> _Is there a case to be made for developing new software_ […]

I think one decent case would be to keep yourself honest.

Linux started out a 80386 only, but someone ported it to DEC Alpha. By
deciding to run on both 32- and 64-bit platforms in the 1990s, it kept the
kernel developers agnostic. Then when the x86 world went 64-bit with amd64,
there was probably a lot less 'cleanly up' to do for it to be ported compared
to if it had been focused on pure-x86 (see also SPARC and endianness). It's
said that NetBSD has a very clean code base because of it's reputed high
portability.

Similarly Solaris was very scalable. Partly because in 1996 Sun released the
SPARCcenter 2000, which could handle 20 CPU sockets. That was _a lot_ , and
I'm guessing not many folks bought one, but they had to deal with it in an
official capacity, as time when on more CPUs (and cores) became prevalent
Solaris was good to go as that situation became more mainstream.

If you develop for the odd ball situations and corner cases, it may force you
to be less lazy as a programmer.

~~~
bcantrill
You are absolutely correct; anyone who worked on Solaris scalability and
performance back in the day will have plenty of Dragon war stories -- and
Solaris did so well on Campfire (a.k.a. UltraSPARC Enterprise 4000, shipped
1996) exactly because so much time and energy had been spent on Dragon (a.k.a.
SPARCcenter 2000, shipped 1992).

~~~
throw0101a
> _Campfire (a.k.a. UltraSPARC Enterprise 4000, shipped 1996)_

My main gripe with the various 'E-series' systems (IIRC, we had some E3x00s)
was boot-up time, especially the RAM check on power up.

I was in an academic environment, and so every so often we had to power down
our lab for electrical/fire code inspection power outages by Facilities. The
first time we rebooted one (with 4GB of RAM?) it kept booting and booting and
booting and booting and booting and booting. 17 minutes later we got the login
prompt on the console.

We put the 17 minutes as a note in our run book so that we knew not to worry
if took 'forever' and to move onto the next step. Otherwise we'd start
freaking out about something being "broken" with the system(s).

(This was in the 2001-2001 timeframe.)

~~~
icedchai
Yes! I worked at a startup with an E3500, around 1998-99, and those machines
took forever to boot. Nice hardware though. I think ours had a whopping 512
meg.

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non-entity
From my understanding there used to be a OpenVMS hobbyist license available
for people to use. However the parent company seems to be abandoning it and I
had trouble discerning if there was going to be some sort of replacement for
it at the time I read about it. Does anyone have any better info about this?

~~~
vladvasiliu
The website has a page about a community license [0].

> VMS Software Inc. is excited to announce the availability of the OpenVMS
> Community License that allows the OpenVMS community members (hobbyists, non-
> commercial software developers, and others) to obtain an OpenVMS license
> free of charge.

> OpenVMS x86 licenses will be available later as more stable versions of
> OpenVMS are released for this architecture.

[0] [https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2020-07-28-community-
lice...](https://vmssoftware.com/about/news/2020-07-28-community-license/)

~~~
non-entity
Ah nice to see they kept something going.

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chmaynard
Interesting that their FAQ doesn't mention that VMS source code is
proprietary. The name 'OpenVMS' is ambiguous to say the least.

[https://vmssoftware.com/about/faq/](https://vmssoftware.com/about/faq/)

The Wikipedia article about OpenVMS clarifies this in the second paragraph. My
point is that the OpenVMS FAQ should address this question because it keeps
coming up.

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paulsutter
VMS was renamed OpenVMS in 1991[1]

The term “Open Source” was coined in 1998 by a group of people in the free
software movement[2]

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVMS](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVMS)

[2] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source-
software_movemen...](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source-
software_movement)

~~~
chmaynard
Hence the ambiguity.

~~~
coldtea
Well, it's the Open Source that is ambiguous then, as it came later as a
term...

(which, co-incidentally, is one argument of the free/libre software guys too)

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1vuio0pswjnm7
Will it be faster than in SIMH? Many years ago I tried one of the SIMH VAX
simulators on a Windows PC and it was blazingly fast.

~~~
fredoralive
It's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison, as the last VAX VMS was
released in 2001, and stopped getting support in 2012. I think the main target
for x86 VMS is people with Itanium (or Alpha) hardware wanting some sort of
supported future path.

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unixhero
Is a hobbyist license generally available?

What are the facts?

Price?

How do I get it?

~~~
voxadam
HPE announced the end of the hobbyist program. IIRC the licenses expire at the
end of 2021.

~~~
unixhero
Sad

What a pointless decision. How else shall people learn anything about the
system, besides work exposure.

~~~
icedchai
Anyone who wants to experiment with VMS still can. Right or wrong, old OpenVMS
releases may as well be free, for anyone who can do a google search.

