
The Forgotten Soviet-Japanese War of 1939 - redwood
https://thediplomat.com/2012/08/the-forgotten-soviet-japanese-war-of-1939/?allpages=yes
======
Tharkun
Another interesting one is the Battle of Tsushima of 1905, where the Japanese
navy all but destroyed the Russian navy. This affected the power balance in
Europe and ultimately contributed to the start of World War 1. It also gave
the Japanese an incorrect impression of their military strength, which helped
set them on a course to Russia again in 1939.

edit: sausage fingers.

~~~
icebraining
The podcast History of the Twentieth Century[1] did five episodes on the
Russo-Japanese war of 1905 (ep. 31 to 36). I fully recommend the whole show!

[1]
[https://historyofthetwentiethcentury.com/](https://historyofthetwentiethcentury.com/)

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JadeNB
This article comes after one a few days ago on "The influence of railways on
military operations in the Russo–German war 1941–1945" (the article's title,
not mine)
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17486415](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17486415)).
At the time I thought it was just because the intersection of programmers and
railroad enthusiasts is high, but I wonder if it also indicates a hidden cache
of WWII / Russian war history buffs?

(Anyway, although I run the risk of the usual "it's whatever's _interesting_
to hackers" retort by wondering about the place of this here, I don't
complain! I think it's interesting, and certainly hadn't heard about the war.)

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phobosdeimos
This war accomplished 2 things: Japan decided to turn their attention to the
Navy and attacking Americ. The Soviet Union didn't have to fight a war on two
fronts thus beating Germany.

What wars and battles are remembered rarely reflects their importance.

~~~
nickik
Threwout the whole fight with German the Soviet Union had enough troupes in
the East to fight Japan.

Japan had some great divisions and a great navy, but going up against the
Soviet Union in 1941 would not seen them defeated.

So this "if Japan jad attacked the Soviet would change everything" meme is
mostly wrong but every couple of years it comes back because somebody that
doesnt know the history well digs it up.

The reason Japan did atrack was because they knew they had no chance.

~~~
m_mueller
I had the impression that the Soviets were forced to pull troops from the East
to the West in 1941, enough so that a combined German/Japanese attack would
have likely succeeded in one of the fronts.

~~~
phobosdeimos
Zhukov himself was in Siberia when the Germans invaded. Being able to redeploy
troops equiped with full winter gear and combat experience saved Russia in my
opinion.

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lionhearted
Yeah, this was a lot more important than most people realize. I wrote about it
here, in the context of Zhukov's rise as a general and what he'd later do on
the Eastern Front after Hitler invaded —

[https://medium.com/the-strategic-review/background-
ops-5-the...](https://medium.com/the-strategic-review/background-ops-5-the-
nature-of-operations-eb8555059e48)

Incidentally, Zhukov's Autobiography is extremely insightful and the
uncensored version has only been out in English for ~20 years now:

[https://www.amazon.com/Marshal-Victory-Autobiography-
General...](https://www.amazon.com/Marshal-Victory-Autobiography-General-
Georgy/dp/1781592918)

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baybal2
A good read.

Another popular hypothesis why Germans were so confident attacking USSR is the
"Japanese unkept promise." It suggests that somebody in German supreme
leadership was assured by Japanese diplomats that they will "surely will
attack USSR," but personal opinions of their generals were moving orthogonal
to their diplomatic efforts

~~~
xeeeeeeeeeeenu
In August 1941 it became clear to everyone that Japan has no intention to
attack USSR, see
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sorge#Wartime_intellig...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sorge#Wartime_intelligence_supplied_by_the_Sorge_Ring)

------
beerlord
There's a good book on the topic if you want more:

[https://www.amazon.com/Nomonhan-1939-Armys-Victory-Shaped-
eb...](https://www.amazon.com/Nomonhan-1939-Armys-Victory-Shaped-
ebook/dp/B007WSNQBS/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=)

~~~
Bendingo
Yes, this book is a very thorough and detailed account -- highly recommended.

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audiometry
Today I see a new episode of Dan Carlin 'Hardcore History' that specifically
covers this time in Japan/Russia/China history.

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imbokodo
> The German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact - the green light for Hitler's
> invasion of Poland and the outbreak of World War II

How about the earlier Munich Pact where France and England handed
Czechoslovakia over to Hitler? In my eyes, that was the "green light" for
Hitler's imperial ambitions.

Speaking of the Munich Pact - Stalin wanted to move Soviet troops through
Poland to defend Czechoslovakia, but Poland refused passage. So if you're
going to say the Ribbentrop Pact green lighted the invasion of Poland, you
could say Poland green lighted the invasion of Czechoslovakia, which
ultimately led to its own invasion.

The Soviet Union wanted self-defense pacts with England, which were not given.
The Soviet Union had a very weak one with France in 1935, which former UK PM
David Lloyd George said justified Hitler's Rhineland militarization.

Any how - Japan and the USSR staying at peace had an effect on WWII. From the
time of the Pacific lend-lease, Russian flagged ships sailed from Vladivostok
to Seattle and back, carrying needed supplies, unmolested by German
submarines.

The Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact was signed two months before Operation
Barbarossa. Stalin went to the train station to see Foreign Minister Matsuoka
off, which is something he never did. Obviously he saw it as crucial. So too
did the Japanese probably, as it saw the western powers encircling it in 1941.

~~~
macspoofing
>So if you're going to say the Ribbentrop Pact green lighted the invasion of
Poland, you could say Poland green lighted the invasion of Czechoslovakia,
which ultimately led to its own invasion.

Wow. That's one interesting interpretation of history.

Soviet Union presented an existential threat to Poland, a country that only
gained independence from Russia (amongst others) post-WW1 and fought off an
Bolshevik invasion a few years after. And with our 20/20 historical hindsight,
it is only a few years later that the Soviet Union annexed the eastern half of
Poland (which lead to mass murder of civilians and of course the Katyn
massacre), and followed by 50 years as a Soviet vassal state ... but yeah, if
only Poland had trusted Stalin's good-will.

Honestly ...

~~~
sbmthakur
Poles(at that time) had territorial ambitions wrt Czechoslovakia. So it isn't
a surprise.

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gok
This misses a pretty key point that the western powers embargoed Japan right
before the Nazis invaded the USSR. The “move North” strategy stopped being
practical when they didn’t have a way to get oil for that invasion.

~~~
nine_k
Speaking of oil, there was another forgotten war, when in 1941 both Soviet and
British troops invaded Persia / Iran, secured the oil fields, and replaced the
then-current Shakh with his son. Significant Soviet forces stayed in Iran
until 1945, to prevent Germans from attempting to capture the oil fields.

~~~
gandhium
> Significant Soviet forces stayed in Iran until 1945, to prevent Germans from
> attempting to capture the oil fields.

Significant Soviet forces stayed there until 1946 - and they've tried to annex
parts of Persia/Iran.

~~~
nine_k
Soviets were always eager to annex something.

Though in 1942-43 when Soviets had to expend an enormous effort and spared no
resource to annex back places like Stalingrad, the Soviet forces in Persia
still stayed put. Their mission was seen utterly important.

~~~
gandhium
Officially they were protecting western lend-lease route and fending off
possible German incursions.

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Dramatize
Did you just listen to the latest Hardcore History?

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unclebucknasty
Not too dissimilar from The Unnoticed American-Russian War of 2015-2018.

~~~
JadeNB
Except that it's completely different …? This was an actual 'hot' war, with
soldiers firing weapons in the field.

~~~
unclebucknasty
Yeah, I didn't mean that literally. Sorry if that wasn't obvious.

Just pointing out the irony of these historical references while there is near
zero interest here in what is clear and present.

But, you know, carry on with the downvotes and confusion.

