
This is what happens when you let Java people write apps for your platform - blasdel
http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201004#09
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axod
It's an interesting idea that the language choice is somehow related to the
quality of apps produced, and an excuse for another "Java sucks!" rant, but
has pretty much no basis in reality.

The article doesn't seem to mention the millions of J2ME games available on
run-of-the-mill phones, which are pretty high quality. So the argument that it
must be Java's fault is completely misguided.

Just one 'top list' of J2ME games available, showing some pretty professional
titles, by big names and small alike:

<http://www.jamster.com/fw/goto/games>

More likely to be the fact android is still relatively new, comparatively
small market size, etc that is keeping more professional game/app developers
away from it. But I'm sure it'll mature if the market size increases.

Please get away from this "Languages are soooooo important!!!" bs. Languages
just don't matter. They don't.

~~~
fleitz
Java is really great for server apps, but I've yet to see a desktop app that
is reasonably performant. Ok, Eclipse is not horrible, but it takes about 2 GB
of RAM. I don't know what it is about the SDK or language, or people who write
software for it, but it seems impossible to produce a reasonably performant
java desktop app.

~~~
matrix
It's quite possible to create responsive Java desktop apps. It's just that it
takes an experienced Swing developer who has learned all the hard lessons
about building that type of app.

That said, yes, many Java developers write bad code, but so do developers who
write in other languages. Java just gets a higher profile because
unfortunately the Java community has a tradition of writing libraries and APIs
that sacrifice usability for flexibility (that's the kindest way I can put it,
anyway).

Slightly off-topic: Am I the only one who feels that Eclipse is the IDE
equivalent of a hair shirt? I find its UI sluggish, its insistence on imposing
its ideas about project management on you irritating, and to be generally
overcomplicated. To me, NetBeans, former versions of IntelliJ, and VS are much
nicer products (mind you, half the time I still just use an text editor
though).

~~~
brazzy
Regarding IDEs, after using eclipse for years, I recently tried Netbeans and
found its UI sluggish, its ideas about project management on you irritating,
and its configurability sorely lacking...

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bad_user
Android is using Java the language, not the JVM and not libraries of code that
were written for the JVM. The platform's API is also totally different than
what you can find in Java SE.

And while I hate Java the language, only shortsighted developers blame the
language for their lack of skill. You're not primarily an artist, you're an
engineer so get over it ;)

Android's development model is also proprietary, so its quality has got
nothing to do with open-source.

The title of this article is "open source is stupid". I beg to differ, this
article is stupid.

~~~
jcromartie
In creative work, tools don't matter. In engineering, they do.

You can't build a F1 car or a space vehicle without amazing tools, but you can
draw a striking picture or play beautiful music with the most humble of
implements.

~~~
bad_user
First of all "amazing" is subjective, and all current mainstream tools are
amazing in some way.

Android has Dalvik, which is a register-based virtual machine (as compared to
the stack-based JVM) that's optimized for solid-state memory (which has slower
access times) and with bytecode optimized for interpreting on ARM processors.
I's questionable if it was the right thing to do, but it's still amazing.

Having a VM on a mobile device is debatable, but it's higher level and that's
one way to achieve portability and to reduce accidental errors (memory leaks,
buffer overflows).

And what language would you propose they should use? Their own? C#? And keep
in mind that it has to be a language that doesn't need lots of magic to make
it run efficiently, like a tracing JIT (a pragmatic choice based on current
real-world constraints).

Your analogy to cars doesn't hold water. You can't build an F1 without proper
knowledge, and all the tools in the world won't help you with that.

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mnemonicsloth
What, the page doesn't load?

~~~
borism
"This is what happens when you let Java people write apps for your platform"
:)

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mike-cardwell
This is what happens when you host a website on the end of a DSL line.

~~~
sailormoon
76-10-167-252.dsl.teksavvy.com

yep.

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huhtenberg
I passionately dislike Java as your average C programmer, but this post is
pure trolling.

Apple was always about the design first and technology second. And Google
always had these in reverse. So their platforms appeal to different types of
developers and it is quite natural that Android apps are _produced_ (in a
Hollywood sense of the word) by the tech people and IPhone apps are produced
by the designers. Hence the obvious appearance and visual polish difference
between two.

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one-man-bucket
Site is down for me =/

~~~
shrikant
[http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://apenwarr.ca/lo...](http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201004#09)
says "It's not just you! <http://apenwarr.ca> looks down from here."

It got news.YC'ed? or HN'ed?

~~~
drtse4
The downforeveryone guys should add a goog cache link. Search
cache:<http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201004#09>

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fleitz
I couldn't agree more. Most of the people I know who write for android are
constantly complaining about the iPhone licensing agreement, and then when I
look at their apps, it looks like garbage. The problem is that with out a
review process the whole platform looks like dreck and because of that no one
will spend money on an android app. It's almost as bad as the apps I've seen
on jailbroken phones, half of them replace the home screen and all of them
look terrible.

I actually had an app rejected from the app store today for inappropriate use
of the Detail Disclosure button. (I was using it as a login button)

Although I disagree and think its ok, I can understand how if people (like
myself) just use buttons for whatever they want it can result in a very
inconsistent user experience.

That said the login button is now a rounded rect.

~~~
blasdel
It's basically the old Windows Mobile modders on a new platform:
<http://www.xda-developers.com/>

The exodus has been happening since Android was released, but now that MS has
finally come to their senses with WM7 (WM7:WM6::Zune:Janus) there's no future
left in doing total UI conversions for manufacturers/carriers wanting
artificial product differentiation.

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rbanffy
Isn't this the troll we fed yesterday?

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rbanffy
Oh boy... Did anyone read TFA? Is the TFA available somewhere else?

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instcode
Haha, just because someone said he's a fanboy, he ignited a controversial
debate on Android & iPhone. Yeah, that's what a fanboy usually be!

