
Opera Neon concept browser - napolux
http://www.opera.com/computer/neon
======
StavrosK
This made me realize how little innovation there is in the browser space
today. Opera used to innovate extensively before the sale, and it looks like
at least they're trying to keep doing it. I'm also hopeful for Vivaldi. Chrome
and Firefox are completely stagnant, unfortunately.

~~~
snowwolf
Ahh, the paradox of being the market leader.

Remember when Chrome tried to innovate with how we use bookmarks? [1]

People cry out for innovation, but then freak out when said innovation
happens. This is why disrupters are so successful - they can do something
crazy and people will try it out and think - this is amazing. Because the
mindset/psychology is that this is something new. But the market leader
implements exactly the same thing and people won't give it a chance because
it's a change and they can't handle change.

But I actually disagree that they are stagnant. They may be hesitant to change
the UI, but there is a lot happening under the hood to make them more secure,
faster, standards compliant, stable etc.

[1] [http://www.omgchrome.com/new-bookmark-manager-chrome-
disable...](http://www.omgchrome.com/new-bookmark-manager-chrome-disabled-how-
to-get-it-back/)

Edit - Adding an example of recent Firefox innovation being rejected
[https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/hello-
status](https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/hello-status)

~~~
tomc1985
Why does it have to be constantly changing? What some see as stagnant, others
see as completeness

Honestly I don't want new features on Chrome or Firefox. They are fine how
they are -- though I wish Mozilla would take out the value-added services they
just had to add. Release security updates and that's it

~~~
satysin
With that attitude we would never see any progress with software though.

~~~
tomc1985
How much "progress" is really necessary?

~~~
lazylizard
asked the first human in a cave..

------
dtnewman
I am generally pretty hesitant to change browsers, but I actually really like
the feel of this. It's super clean and the keyboard shortcuts are the same as
what I'm used to so it seems like it should be an easy switch. Definitely
something worth looking at. I'll probably try this out over the next few
weeks.

My only gripe so far is that when I click command+w, I want it to default to
closing the window when I am on the blank search page (i.e. where the browser
goes by default when you open up a new window), but it only seems to close the
window if you have a page loaded.

EDIT: This isn't a big deal. You can close the window in that case with
command+shift+w, but the behavior feels inconsistent to me (that the window
closes with just command+w when a page is loaded, but otherwise you need
shift).

~~~
dgrealy
One thing that bites me occasionally with the current browsers is when I'm
closing a lot of tabs with cmd-w but go too far and accidentally close the
last one and loose the window. Windows close with cmd shift w so this behavior
makes sense to me.

I like your attention to those shortcuts though I think we have similar
standards:)

~~~
ryanSrich
Command shift T will bring back a window that has been closed (at least of
Mac, I'm sure there's some macro on Windows).

~~~
soylentcola
It's CTRL-SHIFT-T on Windows but same idea.

------
skrebbel
OK, I'm giving it a roll. First impression: very positive. It's notably great
on touch screens. The "tabs" and buttons are nice and big - no more
accidentally closing a tab I meant to open by fat-fingering it. It brings back
a bit of the UX goodness that was IE11 on Windows 8 (before you snark, IE11,
despite its terrible engine, had a fantastic fullscreen mode in Windows 8 with
fantastic UX for touch, which got removed in Windows 10).

It doesn't seem to support extensions so I can't replace my normal Opera with
it - that's a shame, I would've.

The fluffy floaty icon bubble is a great start screen. Remove all the
advertised nonsense sites and pin your favourites there (it was easy to
discover how) and somehow I find finding stuff easier than it was in Opera
classic's Speed Dial page. On first impression, at least.

The chrome does take a fair amount of screen real estate though. Not sure I'd
need the address bar to be so big and present.

~~~
bhauer
The full-screen IE11 experience on early-generation Surface models was
fantastic. Yes, IE11 had a meager JavaScript engine and several rendering
quirks, but it was exceptionally quick at plain HTML, CSS, SVG. It used GPU
acceleration for rendering earlier than other browsers; animation and
scrolling were silky smooth. And that tablet-oriented UI was top notch.

It's a shame it was removed in Edge on the desktop/tablet. I would figure Edge
could provide it as an option and maybe even optionally enable it when Windows
10 is switched to its "tablet mode." Maybe some day.

Incidentally, the same touch UI still exists in Edge on Windows 10 Mobile.

------
Yhippa
Split screen mode is such a good idea and I wonder why other browsers haven't
implemented that yet. Would make devices like Chromebooks a lot more
productive to me.

~~~
notatoad
window management is the operating system's job, not the browser's. you can do
split screen in any browser by putting two windows beside each other.

~~~
globuous
That's true but there are counter examples:

For instance, I'm very thankful that my text editor and terminal allow me to
split panes within their window rather than through multiple instances handled
by the OS. I seem to prefer having panes/tabs vs window instances when alt-
tabbing. Especially if I have two browsers splitting my viewport and a couple
full sized browsers. This makes it very annoying to alt-tab only between the
two half screened browser windows. On OS X anyway.

I actually tried using OS X's full split screen, but that creates a new
virtual desktop. And even with reduced motion (which helps a lot avoiding
headaches when working on multiple windows), it's still too slow/animated for
me to switch between my virtual desktop with split screen browsers and other
virtual desktops with editors/terminals etc.

Finally, what's nice about split panes vs window instances is resizing.
Resizing one pane resizes the others. Whereas resizing one window does not
resize the others (at least not on OS X's default floating windows. But even
something like Spectacle. Someone knows of a tiled window manager that resizes
all windows when resizing one btw ? Looking for something like dwm for os x)

~~~
wolfgang42
Isn't that an argument for better window management, not redoing it in a
slightly different way in every single application?

Of course, putting better window management in the OS would require the OS to
offer hooks for 'new tab' etc, and then all the applications would have to be
changed to use that facility instead of their own, which isn't particularly
likely to happen any time soon.

~~~
tornadoboy55
Yeah, sounds what he really needs is i3.

------
dperfect
I really like the concept, and I want to use it in full-screen mode (to make
it feel more like a first-level OS experience even if it isn't), but sadly
once you open a website in full-screen, the rest of the browser chrome goes
away. Of course there are times when I'd want it that way, but there should
probably be a separate option for full-screen _with_ the browser chrome.

I know this is basically just an early prototype, so I can't really be
critical. If anything, it's just such an effective and impressive prototype
that I already want to adopt it for daily use :)

~~~
batuhanicoz
So this is my problem too but somehow I've managed to do it.

I've went into the Mission Control state and dragged the Neon app into a new
screen. It was a pleasant full-screen experience with only the app full-screen
and not an individual tab, which is what I expect from the full-screen mode.

Problem is when I tried it again, it didn't work. Not sure what's wrong but
this is a newly released software so I'm sure they'll fix it.

Apart from that, it's really amazing. I especially LOVED the media control
features.

edit: Got it now. Go into the full-screen mode when there no active tabs.
Works perfectly after that.

------
avar
For anyone hoping for a Presto revival it's Chrome under the hood:

    
    
        Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_12_2)
        AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko)
        Chrome/53.0.2785.21 Safari/537.36 MMS/1.0.2459.0

~~~
pawadu
Opera moved to webkit in 2012 (2013?) and then to Blink soon after googles
announcement.

~~~
jason_slack
does this mean they are using webkit, chrome and mozilla under the hood for
rendering pages? All 3?

What is the benefit? If a page is designed for Chrome then Opera could render
it as intended and not how Webkit might render it, which could be wrong?

~~~
mathw
No, it means that they're using Blink.

User agents are confusing things now. Everyone says they're Mozilla, and have
done since pretty much the dawn of the web (Netscape, IE, everyone). WebKit
claims to be Gecko. Etc.

Why? Because many websites used to look at your user agent and serve you a
different version of the page to try and give you the best experience. So new
browsers, or improved browsers, started pretending to be other browsers so
that they could get these versions of the pages and not the one for their
release from three years ago.

Eventually you ended up with a mess because everyone claims to be everyone
else.

Which is why friends don't let friends sniff for user agents.

------
cataflam
In a hilarious twist, when trying to download Opera Neon for Windows with
Opera for Windows, the download is blocked:

[http://i.imgur.com/5kIyxzw.png](http://i.imgur.com/5kIyxzw.png)

~~~
ReverseCold
Isn't that your local antivirus? I know that's how that works in chrome.

~~~
cataflam
That's from Opera. See
[http://help.opera.com/opera/Windows/1781/en/private.html](http://help.opera.com/opera/Windows/1781/en/private.html)

"If you are browsing on an encrypted connection ([https://](https://)), Opera
checks to ensure that all parts of the site are encrypted. If Opera detects
that any live elements of the page, for example scripts, plugins, or frames,
are being served by an open connection ([http://](http://)), it will block the
insecure content. This means parts of the page may not display properly.

Opera advises against allowing insecure content to load into an encrypted
connection. The best way to protect your sensitive information is to interact
only with secure content. When Opera detects insecure content and blocks it, a
warning will appear in the right side of the combined address and search bar.

If you do not care about the security of your connection with the site, you
can click the warning to show an Unblock button. This button will allow the
blocked content to be loaded onto the page, and the security badge will change
to show an open padlock, reminding you that you've allowed insecure content to
display on an encrypted connection."

------
konart
Opera 12: [http://i.imgur.com/ItevlTB.png](http://i.imgur.com/ItevlTB.png)

Just saying...

------
julienmarie
I switched from Chrome to Opera a couple of weeks ago and I don't see myself
switching back. Little details make the difference: Better ram and battery
consumption ( for now ), better tab management, integrated ad blocker and
turbo mode when I'm using my phone as a hotspot ( living in a country with
awful internet, it's really useful for basic browsing ). And as it's chromium
inside, it's compatible with Chrome extensions.

------
martinstartsup
Interesting bubbly new browser! Just the blog post says: "Some new features
you won’t have seen in a browser before: (...) A vertical, visual tab bar on
the right side of the browser window that makes it easier to distinguish
between tabs." Really? I use it everyday in Vivaldi Browser :)

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
And it was in "their" own Opera 12 as well.

------
febed
So should one be concerned about private data ex-filtration since Opera is now
owned by a Chinese consortium [0]? This is a major reason why I gravitate
towards Vivaldi inspite of being an Opera power user back in it's heyday.

[0] [http://tech.eu/brief/group-chinese-firms-acquire-opera-
softw...](http://tech.eu/brief/group-chinese-firms-acquire-opera-
software-1-2-billion/)

~~~
toyg
Probably in the same way you should be if you're keeping your files on
Dropbox.

------
mtgx
I was beginning to like Opera (again) right before it got acquired by a
Chinese company. But then I saw how they ruined the Opera Max [1] app, and so
I expect the same to happen to the Opera browser in the near future.

[1] [http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/10/31/opera-max-turns-
nagw...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/10/31/opera-max-turns-nagware-now-
prompts-users-re-enable-every-12-hours/)

If you want to experiment with a new browser that also uses Chromium and has
native ad-blocking, try Brave:

[https://brave.com/](https://brave.com/)

~~~
thewhitetulip
I don't understand why everyone hates add so much, I understand that excessive
adverts are bad, ads are the reason that the Internet is what it is now, if we
hadn't had ads to monetize content, then everything would cost money + be
inside paywalls.

------
sprokolopolis
This is a really neat concept that seems to be inspired by some of the mobile
browsers out there. Flynx, Flyperlink and Link Bubble all use the (facebook-
chathead-style) bubbles that sit over other apps and the UI. They are very
convenient on mobile and allow you to do other things, while pages are
loading. In my opinion, this browser consumes too much screen space with the
browser windows being smaller windows inside the Neon container. I would
prefer if they ditched the outermost container window and let the bubbles
handle the hiding/moving of the browser, like the mobile browsers I mentioned
above. Maybe there is a bubble that lives in the top right that sucks up and
hides all browser bubbles and interface elements, then invokes them all when
the user wants to show the browser again. I welcome any experimentation and
innovation in the browser space. I do really like the idea of easily-tiling
browser windows. In the future, I would love to be able to adjust the size and
padding of the bubbles to allow more viewing space in the browser windows.

The original Opera had cascading, individual windows within the browser,
before switching to tabs. They have sort of come full circle.

I currently use opera as my primary browser, but I really miss the tab spaces
that Firefox had. I feel like the bubble concept provides a great opportunity
for pinned bubble groups that contain groups of websites that I use together.
I could have a meta bubble for sites that I use specifically for work, or for
my favorite news sites.

------
rahilb
I thought it was interesting that they specify the Desktop Wallpaper is free.

I wondered if anyone had ever paid for desktop wallpaper: apparently people do
[http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=desktop+wallpaper&LH_Com...](http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=desktop+wallpaper&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc)

I wonder if I could write a script to sell royalty free wallpaper on ebay, if
all the sellers have the rights to the images they are selling, and what kind
of person pays for wallpaper.

~~~
JadeNB
> what kind of person pays for wallpaper.

Non-technical users. I think that technical users often forget how lucky we
are that we can make the assumption that often good, and sometimes even the
best, tools are free.

------
Sir_Cmpwn
No source, no deal (let alone no Linux support). With projects like Vivaldi
and now this, are we really heading back to the dark ages of non-portable
closed source browsers?

------
rch
Before leaping to vehement criticism (as I almost did), recall that Opera's
market includes televisions and video games. A physics engine for browser
chrome and a name-recognizable designer actually make some sense here.

Still missing the old Opera though - I use neither televisions nor game
consoles.

\--
[http://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/devices/giving-g...](http://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/devices/giving-
gamers-two-windows-to-the-web-the-opera-browser-for-nintendo-dsa)

~~~
stonogo
Opera's embedded browsers still use Presto. I wonder if this is an attempt to
replace that.

------
dvcrn
I like how this feels, but sadly without 1Password and AdBlock I can't
consider using it for now.

It looks like it's running pretty much on the same tech as normal opera and
chrome. Here's to hope that extensions are coming soon!

/edit: looks like extensions is still available in the menu, it just doesn't
resolve to anything.

------
andrepd
Why for Mac? It seems to be available for Windows too, at least?

~~~
vflagr
When on the download page for Mac it doesn't mention Windows download
anywhere. I assume OP doesn't realise it's available for Windows, I didn't
realise at first either.

------
V-2
Very basic (no extensions and thusly no adblocker, no LastPass, no mouse
gestures etc.), but it's a concept version, I get it. Certainly worth
considering as a light-weight browser number 2 for me. I like it as a fresh
take at browser UX design that's been more or less settled for a while now.

------
satysin
This is what Microsoft Edge should be doing (innovating) and not just trying
to cram in Microsoft services like OneNote. Honestly Edge is still such an
awful browser and it is the default browser in Windows 10 which has been out
for 18+ months now. Shocking.

~~~
FlorianRappl
I wouldn't call it horrible, but starting from their promised solution (IE
without all the crap; lightweight + innovative) not much is delivered. The
browser feels buggy and slow and I do not see much innovation.

~~~
taivare
SVG brakes badly in Edge , I check all the time , they'll run fine in Chrome
and Firefox but not Edge !

------
zerr
I see a lot of C++ books in the background :)

------
glomph
So many of these new features seem like really they should be window manager
features. I am a user of tabs but I occasionally think they also should really
be a feature of the window manager and not the browser.

------
tatoalo
If you want to download it while using another OS you can actually use their
download link and just edit the last part of the URL string with the
destination OS name.[1]

I've actually tried from windows using the 'mac' parameter and it actually
downloads .dmg extension, I don't think there's a linux version at the moment.

[1]:
[http://www.opera.com/computer/thanks?ni=stable_neon&os=mac](http://www.opera.com/computer/thanks?ni=stable_neon&os=mac)

~~~
poshus1984
Yes I read their blog about it they do not release linux version.

------
mkhpalm
Well this is kinda cool. I wouldn't use it (in its current state anyway), but
it's cool. It seems like they're trying to turn a browser in to a type of
desktop, kinda like Chrome OS I guess. My first impressions though are the
left sidebar is incredibly unresponsive, and both the left and right sidebar
need to be able to be hidden so the browser window isn't so small.

------
isaac_is_goat
A closed source browser owned by the Chinese? No chance.

~~~
aphextron
Completely agree even if it's downvoted

------
roryisok
I use Opera as my main browser right now because I want a webkit browser
without google using it to spy on me. Glad to see they're still innovating

~~~
hackuser
Does Opera collect data on users?

Also, what about Brave?

~~~
roryisok
Maybe Opera collects data on users, I don't know. Probably. Maybe I'm naive
but I trust them more than Google.

I'd forgotten all about brave since the launch, must try it out.

Both brave and opera have built in ad blockers. I admire the effort but in
practice the opera one is not as good as ublock. Ublock blocks ads but also
blocks trash like taboola, which is not technically advertising, but is far
more insidious.

And ublock is available for opera, not sure about brave. Must try it today

------
robertoestivill
It reminded me of LinkBubble, and android application to open links in a
background webview, see the loading progress and have them accessible as a
floating bubble while doing something else.

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.linkbubble...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.linkbubble.playstore&hl=en)

------
agumonkey
The in-browser split is good. The tab -> home too. The presentation is sub par
to me, wasteful and cut for no reason.

Good ideas, pretty sure all browsers could copy that quickly but still, good
ideas from Opera.

------
cwyers
Mods, can we get the title changed? It's for Windows too (and maybe Linux, I
can't verify that).

I downloaded it. It's... interesting. It may be a few days before I have a
real opinion of it, though.

------
xenostar
Tried it out, app stopped responding within two minutes of use. Had to force
quit. I think I'll wait for it to mature a bit before trying again.

------
panic
They should bring this to tablets! Tabs on the side would be a natural fit --
your fingers naturally rest near the side of the touchscreen.

~~~
skrebbel
Or just get a Windows tablet / 2-in-1 :-)

------
MarcScott
I just want a browser that I can use without taking my fingers away from the
home row, but I guess I'm in the minority of users.

~~~
hackuser
This Firefox add-on helps with one such issue, navigating tabs:

* Single Key Tab Switch

[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/single-key-
ta...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/single-key-tab-switch/)

I configured mine to use Vim navigation keys (h for left, l for right). As
long as the focus isn't in an input field, it works great.

------
Zelmor
I like the screen-cap utility. All the rest seems useless, knowing that people
already litter their desktops with a million icons.

~~~
leadingthenet
But why duplicate the screen-cap utility already available on your OS (which
works exactly the same way)? Do I not get it?

~~~
sp332
It does save the original URL with the screenshot, which I guess is
convenient. I prefer Firefox's version which lets you snap individual elements
precisely, but it's hard to use. ("Inspect element", then right-click the node
and "screenshot node".) They do have an experimental first-party extension
called Page Shot that makes this easier to use, and adds full-text search to
boot! [https://testpilot.firefox.com/](https://testpilot.firefox.com/)

------
SloppyStone
I don't understand vertical tab bars at all. Why not give an option to change
it to horizontal?

Also, seems quite resource heavy.

~~~
wongarsu
The line length of readable text is quite limited, yet our monitors are wider
than they are high. Since websites still contain a lot of text they profit
more from getting the full screen height than from getting the full screen
width. Hence vertical tab bars.

I'm not a fan of the giant pictures they use as representations of tabs when
my tab bar fits ~40 tabs in one screen height. But I guess that heavily
depends on user preference.

------
iplaw
Snap-to-gallery is an awesome feature addition for casual users, and I'd use
it but-for having a Snagit license.

------
fullofit
This doesn't make sense until the browser and the OS shell are combined into
one thing.

------
Advaith
They didn't use the Macbook pro with the touchpad in the video :P

------
pknight
Try clicking on the lock icon in the address bar, very neat!

~~~
vflagr
That's default Chromium behaviour :)

~~~
pknight
I don't have site specific permissions showing in the other chromium based
browsers I use, like this:

[http://imgur.com/a/ApCfK](http://imgur.com/a/ApCfK)

That's new to me

~~~
yathern
That's been in chrome for a quite a long time now I believe.

------
agounaris
Very nice ideas on this!! I love it!

------
aakarpost
Neon is fast compared to Chrome.

------
nialv7
Funny how they are using Mac in their demo video, while the browser only
supports Windows.

~~~
TobbenTM
The browser supports both platforms, just shows you a OS-specific site based
on what you're on.

------
kevinSuttle
That logo is BRUTAL.

------
cpmsmith
The caption to [https://www.xkcd.com/934/](https://www.xkcd.com/934/) is
finally coming true.

------
the_duke
Wow. You can open websites with icons. And you can take screenshots.

Pretty amazing.

(There might be more to Neon, of course, but if there is, the video is
horrible in showing it off).

~~~
Nagyman
Why start with snarky sarcasm if you admit there might be more to it than the
video? There's also a bunch of copy on the page if you scroll past the video.

* The tabs are represented by little screenshots; nice for navigating. Yet to determine how this scales with MANY tabs (I see, it scrolls vertically... hrm)

* The split screen is pretty cool; many times I need to work between two tabs and alternating between them in Chrome is generally a pain

* Videos can be played outside of the tab; cool if you want to continue browsing while having a video visible (think tutorial while visiting documentation pages)

* All the dev tools are seemingly available – sweet

* The page URL and title are big and nicely visible

* It looks awesome for touch. I don't have a touch laptop though :(

* Screenshots ... meh. I use OSXs built-in tools.

------
skrebbel
On Windows, the page title is "Opera Neon concept browser for Windows".

Maybe rename to [for Mac and Windows]?

~~~
jedimastert
Or maybe take out the operating system

~~~
Aaargh20318
If you look at the page with $OS it looks like there is only a version for $OS
available. I can see how that might lead to headlines like this. I also
initially assumed it was a mac-only app.

~~~
cbr
In Chrome on Linux it reads "Opera Neon concept browser for Windows"

~~~
pluma
... with no mention of Mac. So the point is still valid.

