

Ask HN: How can get people to stop gushing at me and, instead, promote me? - Mz

I have had a lot of talented, intelligent, important people gush at me about how wonderful I am, how wonderful my websites are, how fantastic my writing is. Everyone wants to pat me on the head, give me emotional encouragement and crap like that. When I say "Hey, I don't need that. I need money. I need traffic. I need help monetizing my websites." most people spit in my face and tell me the sites have zero commercial value and ther is no money in it, even people who latched onto me and made life changing decisions based on my writing say thhings like that.<p>I am frothing at the mouth frustrated. This has been going on for literally years and has been done to me by people whose names you might recognize. How do I get people to stop telling ME I am wondetful and, instead, get them to tell their five hundred closest friends I an wonderful, they should follow me on twitter, read my writing, donate, buy something, etc?<p>As of yesterday afternoon, my bank account is suddenly at negative a few thou. So my already difficult situation has gotten dramatically worse. I need to solve this post haste.<p>Thanks.
======
prehnra
This is probably going to be hard to hear, but the reason why people say nice
things in private but don't promote you in public is that there is no risk or
cost in saying nice things, but if they endorse you then their reputations are
tied to yours. Or it might even be a level of effort thing (short encouraging
messages are easy, promotion is harder).

Also, I assume we are hearing frustration in your post, but it comes across as
entitlement and bad attitude. I hope you don't use this tone with the people
you are asking to promote you.

Sorry, I know this is not a good situation for you. Good luck.

~~~
Mz
I don't feel entitled. If I felt entitled, I imagine I would not be in such a
mess. But I have helped a lot of people over the years with very difficult
problems. We are not friends. They get advice and move on. It is more like
consulting, but I don't get paid. In some cases, lots of experts already
failed them. So I improve their lives but I am apparently supposed to do that
out of "love" or something, and somehow that translates to they are entitled
to my help and owe me not a damn thing. That's part of why my finances are a
mess.

I am good at solving hard problems. I like doing that. I think it makes the
world a better place. But I need money. I can't keep doing it for free and I
don't see any reason I should.

Thanks for replying.

------
EvaPeron
I feel your pain also as someone who is often called "talented" but seems to
not quite be able to work corporate politics enough to land very overdue
promotions. Unfortunately the IT field seems like any other field - talent is
one thing, but "playing the game" also is needed, something to this day I
neither relish nor do particularly well, not seeming to have the stomach for
it. If there is one thing I could proffer by way of advise (at the risk of
blind leading the blind, ha) - doing websites/IT work for friends / family on
a contract basis I do from time to time to try and cover over some financial
rough spots - i.e. just charge a flat hourly rate (say, $50/hr) to help with
somebody's website/LAN issue/what-have-you. Needless to say the blogosphere,
so-called, is saturated, so it is more difficult than ever to "monetize" any
site, however good. So just going the route of saying, hey, I'll do your
website for you for X amount per hour is at least one way of raking in some
dough, speaking from personal experience. As Socrates might tell one,
sometimes being smart is not enough to get around political bullcrap,
sometimes the smart folks end up with the hemlock. :-) So from personal
experience I really feel where you are coming from. So best thing I can say is
while it is good to continue to think long-term of how to monetize your sites
and so on, for short-term pain, one might want to think of doing individual
contract type of projects, to sort of tied one over the hump as it were,
something I have done more than once. Good luck.

~~~
Mz
Thanks. I am not an IT professional. I am someone who got myself well against
long odds and is viewed as either a great inspiration or a chatlatan. I am
someone who raised two very challengin children and whose advice was valued by
Harvard graduates and similar ilk when I was able to help them deal with their
kids, sometimes after all kinds of paid professionals failed them. I write.
People send me emails and gush at me about how wonderful my writing is and all
this crap. I find out later that they are big names, in the news, etc. Every
last one of them refuses to promote my work. They tell me it is amazing,
awesome, their life is so much better for knowing me etc etc. None of them
will tweet about it, blog about, and so on. I have asked. I have been pissed
on for asking. If I named names, you would likely recognize some of them. If I
do, I am cutting my own throat. If I don't, I am viewed as a delusional
egomaniac and teller of tall tales. If half the people who gushed at me
promoted me eben once, I would have traffic, probably of the kind that crashes
servers. Instead, I get called a troll for trying to figure how to get money
out of something which ckearly has value to people. It is extremely
crazymaking and at the moment I am pretty goddamned bitter about it.

But thank you for the feedback.

~~~
brandoncordell
Have you tried any other forms of traffic building than asking for someone to
spread your name? If you're as good as you say you are (I've never read your
writing) then I would try getting a guest spot to blog on large parenting and
family blogs, the type that gets thousands or tens of thousands of hits per
day. Try getting in touch with bloggers for these types of sites, or the
people that run the site, and point them back to your blogs. Tell them that
you're interested in guest writing blog posts for them.

That should get you some good traffic if you could pull that off with a few
big blogs.

Don't rely on word of mouth advertising, go out there and research
alternatives that may be more attainable to you.

I hope you find something that works.

~~~
Mz
I am trying to figure it out and work on it. I am getting some increase in
traffic but a lot of the things people suggest do not really work. Someone
suggested I do an AMA on Reddit. I did. It was largely ignored. Promoting
myself in the ways people suggest seems to never work out. I mostly have not
asked these people to promote me but when I have I get told that even if they
found my writing personally life changing, they say "but it has no commercial
value" and then refuse to help me turn it into something with commercial
value..and so on. So amazing people with connections etc. tell me I am amazing
and made their life better but bite me bitch if you want anything in return.
Um, what? WTF???? It makes me crazy. Then if I try to talk about my
frustration, other people say I am delusional and egomaniacal. Can I gnaw my
left arm off and escape this trap already?

------
helen842000
Hey Mz, I've read a lot of your blog posts in the past. I can totally see why
this is happening.

The design and layout of your blogs don't present you as the subject matter
expert that you are. Blogging & blogging platfoms have changed a LOT over the
last 10 years since you started some of your sites. Making your sites look
professional will present your free work in the right light.

You're not making it easy for people to :- 1)consume your writing & remember
you 2)know instantly what you're about & what your aims are 3)move from post
to post 4)find specific posts relavent to them 5)promote you, your newest work
or product

I know it sounds shallow and that folks should just look through the
formatting & design to find the value in your writing but if you're competing
for attention and eyeballs with all the other sites out there, then the shine
matters. Also you've got to consider some kickstarting some income streams
that are both value to your customers and value for your time.

Just visit some of your favourite blogs and compare and contrast layout, style
and design.

You've got a great body of work and I know you can start making the income you
want from this.

I can see you're totally frustrated with how it's going so far. If I can help
in any way or if you want to discuss this my e-mail is in my profile.

~~~
Mz
Thank you very much. This is very nice to read. I may contact you later in the
week. I am currently hipdeep in trying to contact lawyers and straighten out
the latest financial drama. My mother is a former maid and financial genius.
One call to her and I now have a path forward. Though there is work to do,
this drama might fizzle out in a few days.

I have also gotten a lot of good feedback on metafilter. Between freelance
work and my websites, I have made something like $1200 online this year. I
just need to be making that more like monthly. But it is the first year I am
actually making money online. I have possibly failed to convey that given how
stressed out I have been. There is clear evidence this _can_ work. I just need
to improve on what I am doing.

Thank you so much for posting this.

------
bdfh42
There is a saying - "No good turn goes unpunished".

If you genuinely help people and they think that help has given them some
leverage in life then most (not quite all) will downplay your contribution.
Anything else and they are diminishing their own self esteem.

None of your users will help you moneterise what you have - they want it for
free. You have to do it yourself.

Physician - heal thyself.

~~~
Mz
I have reason to believe some of it is embarrassment or shame or not wanting
to admit publically why they think I am fantastic. If you had a kid who was
headed for jail or a mental institution or something and I helped turn it
around so that was not the outcome, first, you can't prove that jailtime was
averted by better parenting and, second, you probably don't want to admit it
even if you feel people would believe it.

------
dangrossman
If you think your content is amazing and helping to change lives, then turn it
into a product. Don't give it away in a blog and hope for some AdSense
pennies. Self-publish a book, list it on Amazon, and use your blogs and
contacts as marketing channels for the book, not the thing to be marketed.

~~~
Mz
I don't think that. Other people tell me that. Then I get called an egomaniac
for wanting to find a way to monetize it etc. Given my current situation, it's
pretty crazymaking. Thanks for the feedback.

------
smartwater
Being a good designer or coder isn't the same thing as being good at making
money. It can be a part of the money making equation, but your code/design
won't make money alone.

Monetization of a website is a problem that a lot of businesses struggle with,
even Facebook.

I took a look through the websites in your profile. Your peers might be afraid
to tell you this, but I'll give it to you straight: they are awful. The color
schemes are bizarre, the code doesn't follow any standards, and they don't
provide value. At least that's how they appear to me.

~~~
Mz
The main sites are old. The blog portion is the newer part. The value I bring
to it is the content. I am not a designer. But thank you for the feedback.

------
zalew
it would be easier for people to give advice if you linked your actual
websites. in case anybody is interested, here are the links
<http://www.metafilter.com/user/153873> (grabbed from your another comment).

~~~
Mz
Links:

<http://www.healthgazelle.com>

<http://www.kidslikemine.com>

<http://www.novemberwest.com>

<http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/>

<http://www.astrologygorilla.com>

~~~
hcho
How's your retention rate? I'd bet your numbers are really bad and that's
probably why you're not building any traffic.

Your content is just not consumable. I clicked one of your links, it's just a
wall of text. I couldn't bring myself to read it. The first couple of
sentences did not make me want to read the rest of it. I can't skim through
and get an idea what you are talking about.

I will probably never be a returning visitor to your blog. That's because I
have the attention span of a 5 year old when I browse the internet in
discovery mode. Most people are like me.

Maybe you can work on making your writing more consumable. Use more pictures,
bullet points, sub headings, shorter paragraphs...Maybe you can A/B test how
you present your articles.

Just my 2 pence...

~~~
Mz
My retention sucks. I only recently have been able to work on this
consistently. In some sense, I am starting from scratch. But in another way,
there is existing content so ... I don't quite know how to express my
frustration with that. The sites are still up because people give me just
enough money to pay web hosting but then I get dissed for wanting to turn it
into income. Given my health issues, I need it to become my income. I am
basically not employable and I am too healthy to qualify for disability. This
is my only real hope of supporting myself and solving my financial problems.

~~~
zalew
If I'm to be completly honest, most people around here are kindly saying that
you're stories aren't engaging. Seriously, you probably lived/suffered a
shitload of stuff that can be turned into a heartbraking story. Read f.ex.
this <http://davidpeter.me/stories/being-deaf> It's a story, it's emotions,
it's not being afraid of sharing what you feel. People around here are skeptic
about your content not because they are assholes, but because they know how
the web works - you engage your visitors you don't, it doesn't matter if
you're sick, it works the same for every website on the internets. Good luck.

~~~
Mz
Thank you.

------
zoowar
Man can not live on trolling alone.

~~~
Mz
I am not trolling. I am frustrated. My websites exist due to interest in the
information. I am making inroads into getting more traffic. But it is too
little, too slow.

I wrote a longer version of this on metafilter but I am on a tablet so was
unable to copy and paste it. People there are taking the question seriously.
Here is the link: [http://ask.metafilter.com/219448/Please-dont-tell-ME-you-
thi...](http://ask.metafilter.com/219448/Please-dont-tell-ME-you-think-Im-
wonderful-Instead-tell-your-five-hundred-closest-friends)

However, have an upvote for replying as that is more respect than most people
bother to give me.

~~~
bmelton
In lieu of telling 500 friends (for reasons I'll mention later), I'll be as
constructively critical as I am able.

It takes how long it takes, largely depending on how effectively you can
increase retention and how presentable your content is. You have to
acknowledge that yours is a niche audience. That means that 1) Even if you
have helped me with your content, I almost certainly don't have 500 friends to
hawk it to. At best I have 1, or a handful. In my life, I am thankful to have
no one I know that could benefit from your content. (Not meant to be a dis,
but at least at this moment, knock on wood, all my friends and family are
whole and healthy.)

Looking over your sites, I see content that was likely written over a long
period of time derived from a wealthy knowledge store, but that contains typos
(goes to credibility) and are put forth in an unattractive format with a giant
wall of text that is largely unbroken by a good narrative.

Break your content up into more bite-sized pieces. Create 'teaser' headers in
intervals that people can see them from the paragraph they're on and want to
get to the next section. Include high quality pictures to make the content
look more appealing and for the love of anything holy, get a much more
attractive theme to your content.

You need to follow every piece of advice Patio11 gives out so that you can
master SEO. You need to have people be able to painlessly opt in to email
updates when you post new content. ALL content is initially forgettable, and
it takes a long time before any site becomes a site you visit every day, so
you need to find ways to allow interested parties to be notified when you post
new content. You also need to post content much more frequently. You also
probably need to be paying for clicks, but that means that you'd need to
attract relevant, high-paying ads -- they exist, and for your type of content,
they are exceedingly high, though as your mantra seems to be "do not use
anything my advertisers would be presenting", it may be an uphill battle.

One of the guys I learn from (Marty Schwartz) teaches guitar, and I subscribe
to his site and newsletter because he is great at giving solid guitar advice.
He also makes a living off of doing this, and he has a few tricks he uses that
I should also share:

\- Your blog posts are 'teasers'. You should have much more comprehensive
information that you can sell, in either ebook, video or whatever tangible
format that people feel as valuable. Marty has a set of DVDs that he sells for
a hundred or so dollars (depending on the week) that are basically video
lessons he has compiled.

\- Make videos. I realize that while homeless, that may present a challenge,
but since you seem to be able to so actively post on HN, I figure it's
probably doable in some way. Post those videos on YouTube and hope to get an
audience. Embed those YouTube videos in blog posts so that you are cross-
promoting. Do not reveal all of your secret sauce in one video, but lure
people in with helpful tips and techniques that, over time, will be a part of
your grand strategy for wellness or whatever. As you compose these videos,
include them as part of your 'tangible' sale thing.

\- Release content to new users regularly. You need to be on their minds. If
they genuinely need your advice, they'll welcome the emails, and return. You
can track the return rate with MailChimp (and probably other mailing list
managers.)

\- Track everything. Split test everything. Test, test, test. Throw away what
doesn't work, and re-split and re-test everything that does until it works
better, or at least enough that you're retaining people better, or you are
making money.

You're basically starting a startup, which is what all "things trying to make
money" are. It's a content startup, which is especially hard in even the
easiest genres, but you're also in a very very niche genre arguing a fairly
contrarian viewpoint. Don't expect a huge audience, but do try to maximize the
experience for every single person that gives you a minute of their time. Ask
for a minute more. Ask for an email. Ask for the ability to reach out to them
when you make new updates. Make the content worth their while, and make it
easier to use / consume / interact with.

I'm out of steam, but those are basically your steps. I know that I
specifically ignored the topic at hand, but I _believe_ this to be better
advice than to expect others to publicize for you.

~~~
Mz
Thank you. Very much.

Given my health issues and current other challenges, things can go pretty
slow, which frustrates me. But I have been gradually acting on some of
feedback I have gotten in recent months. And I am seeing progress, I just need
to find a way to step it up.

