
PCB design now supports LEDs and Matias switches - rpilgrimr
https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/blog/2016/02/18/2nd-uhk-post-campaign-update-pcb-design-now-supports-leds-and-matias-switches
======
scribu
I switched to a split keyboard last year (Kinesis Freestyle2). While it's
definitely better than a flat keyboard, it's still incredibly awkward to
execute some basic combos with one hand. Chief example: Cmd + T.

I'm still waiting for someone to mass-produce the
[http://ergodox.org/](http://ergodox.org/) \- here you can press all the
modifier keys with your thumbs!

~~~
qihqi
You can always press Cmd and T with different hands... (assuming there is Cmd
in both side of your board).

~~~
verisimilidude
Took the words out of my mouth. You've gotta teach yourself to do this on a
split keyboard.

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asciimo
This reminds me of the open source keyboardio [1], which isn't yet in
production. They key mapping and LEDs are controlled by Arduino and fully
customizable. The creator blogged in detail about its creation from concept to
manufacturing [2]. A maker triumph.

[1] [http://shop.keyboard.io/](http://shop.keyboard.io/)

[2] [http://blog.keyboard.io/post/77078804805/building-a-
keyboard...](http://blog.keyboard.io/post/77078804805/building-a-keyboard-
part-1)

~~~
ptomato
Yup. It solves my main complaint about the ergodox, which is the poorly
placed/uncomfortable thumb cluster. It also has out-of-band communication with
PC for e.g. LED or layer controls, which, well, I've thought of a few
interesting things for that already. At minimum, indicators for e.g. vi insert
mode, running shell as root, &c&c...

------
nwah1
This one looks interesting.

I tried the Truly Ergonomic keyboard and while it was innovative, it was hard
to get used to the middle row and the build quality was not so good.

I ended up buying from WASD Keyboards and I absolutely love their product.
Complete customization, a tenkeyless option, excellent build quality, the most
durable key caps around, but familiar IBM style key placement.

[http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/](http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/)

This one seems to be something in between these two.

In my opinion, the most important ergonomic improvements are to buy a
tenkeyless model and set the capslock to a backspace. Having a heavy keyboard
with sturdy grips at the base is also important.

Exotic features like a split keyboard, matrix layout, and strange thumb
controls are just annoying and non-standard. I also somewhat regret having
switched to colemak, but not entirely.

~~~
Fillipoman
What do you not like about different thumb controls? It seems odd to me that
the thumb is really only useful for hitting the space bar on standard
keyboards.

~~~
nwah1
If you use any other keyboard for any other purpose, the more removed from the
standard layout you are, the more disoriented you'll be when switching between
the two.

I think if keyboards originally were designed for thumbs to press Ctrl and
Alt, in addition to Space, it would be the standard, and it would make sense.

As of now, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V are so standard that I wouldn't want to
switch, and am glad that even Colemak doesn't force me to.

But pressing Ctrl+C requires much less hand movement than pressing a
traditional backspace. If minimizing hand movement is the goal then backspace
is the biggest offender. It is also one of the things that tends to skew the
results for Colemak in studies regarding hand movement, making it appear
better than it actually is.

Colemak would've been a better standard. But it is not the standard. Don't
learn it. Just learn how to type correctly on QWERTY and get a keyboard with
the features I mentioned.

~~~
verisimilidude
> If you use any other keyboard for any other purpose, the more removed from
> the standard layout you are, the more disoriented you'll be when switching
> between the two.

I don't find this to be true. At all. I use standard QWERTY on my Macbook. At
my desk, I use an Ergodox (tented, split, columnar/matrix, thumb clusters,
etc.) with a custom Dvorak-based layout. My job frequently requires I switch
between desk and laptop usage. It's not a problem and not something I need to
think about. My brain and hands just do what they need to do wherever I happen
to be typing.

If anything, I think the opposite of your statement is true. The further away
from the standard you get in your exotic preference, the easier it is to
compartmentalize that layout, the easier it will be to switch as needed.

~~~
evancordell
> If anything, I think the opposite of your statement is true. The further
> away from the standard you get in your exotic preference, the easier it is
> to compartmentalize that layout, the easier it will be to switch as needed.

This has been my experience as well - even with very muscle-memory intensive
things like vim.

------
randlet
This looks very nice. Switching to a split keyboard (Kinesis Freestyle)[1] and
a trackball placed in the middle of the split so I can use it with either hand
(pic of my current setup [2]) was a complete game changer for my RSI problems.
It hasn't eliminated it completely but I am managing much much better now.

My only complaint with the Freestyle is that it doesn't have mechanical
switches but it's still quite pleasant to type on imo.

[1] [http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-
us/](http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/)

[2]
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzAsjQaobJuoQllYbTVGYlc2b2s...](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzAsjQaobJuoQllYbTVGYlc2b2s/view?usp=sharing)

~~~
DanielStraight
What trackball is that? Does it have scrolling capability?

~~~
randlet
It's a Kensington Orbit and yes it has a great (smooth) scroll wheel
surrounding the entire trackball.

~~~
melling
I have the Kensington Orbit and a Logitech Marble. While I love the scroll
wheel on the Kensington, I find that the left button requires a bit more force
than the Logitech when clicking. No such thing as a gaming trackball?

[http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/trackman-
marble](http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/trackman-marble)

~~~
digikata
I still miss the Logitech Marble FX (out of production)
[http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-FX-
Trackball/...](http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-TrackMan-Marble-FX-
Trackball/dp/B00000JBUI)

But it would be a terrible 'center' trackball.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
I use a Marble FX at home, they are wonderful. Hope it never breaks. At work I
use an M570 which is also quite good (thumb-only trackball).

------
farnsworth
I've never been able to use a non-split keyboard comfortably for long periods
of time. I used a Kinesis Ergo for awhile and generally liked it except that I
still have to be able to use other people's keyboards from time to time and it
was just too different. The Microsoft Natural 4000 has been my favorite for
around 8 years but I wish I could get one with mechanical switches. It has a
slight curve - the "flat but split" form factor of some others feels a little
off to me.

~~~
noir_lord
Mine as well, I'd very much like a mechanical version with the exact same
geometry, I even loved the massive removable rest once I got used to it, been
able to use a keyboard in a neutral position had a massive impact on my
wrist/arm pain (it pretty much went in about 6 weeks between the keyboard and
tennis ball exercises).

------
melling
How ergonomic are Matias switches compared to Cherry switches? My
understanding is that the Matias' bottom out to register a keypress like the
cheap rubber domes. I don't have much about Matias in my notes:

[https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/keyboa...](https://github.com/melling/ErgonomicNotes/blob/master/keyboards.org)

~~~
papercrane
I haven't used them personally, but according to Matias all three of their
switches actuate at 2.2mm and bottom out at 3.5mm.

[http://matias.ca/switches/click/](http://matias.ca/switches/click/)

[http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/](http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/)

[http://matias.ca/switches/linear/](http://matias.ca/switches/linear/)

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mmgutz
How is this different than this?
[http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/](http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/)

~~~
mtourne
This is my daily driver and I really love it! It's mechanical, split and the
layout is really not esoteric. The major upside from the UHK would be total
firmware configurability, not an option on the Matias Ergo pro. I would have
to remap 'Mouse' though as this is the place for my 'Ctrl' key (I use Emacs a
lot).

------
redtuesday
Why are they using staggered keys? Because it's cheaper to produce and more
familiar for most people? I can't go back to staggered keyboards after using
one with a columnar layout. But I never liked staggered keyboards to begin
with. For me it felt awkward to touch type (maybe a problem with my small
hands, idk).

But the config looks beautiful.

My dream keyboard would be something like this:
[https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-
or-k80cs-k...](https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/katy-keyboard-or-k80cs-
key80-contoured-split-t8524.html)

~~~
jluxenberg
You might like this layout better:
[http://shop.keyboard.io/](http://shop.keyboard.io/)

(disclaimer: I'm an investor in Keyboardio.)

~~~
redtuesday
Yes, when the kickstarter launched I actually thought about backing the
project, but I don't know if I can go back after experiencing the concave key
wells of my Kinesis Advantage (I can't even decide what's more important to me
- a columnar layout or concave key wells). But I will certainly give it a try
when one of my friends or co workers get it (if they let me ;o). I especially
like the key caps, the look beautiful and comfortable.

------
gravypod
buying a new keyboard would be very easy for me if I hadn't gotten used to USB
ports being built into them.

That's a feature fee manufacturers build in but damn is it useful.

~~~
lallysingh
Kinesis Advantage - mechanical key split keyboard, 2 USB ports in the back.
They're updating it, so if you're in no hurry, they'll be releasing an
improved version at some point (AFAICT, months, not years, from now).
[https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac/](https://www.kinesis-
ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac/)

~~~
kvcrawford
Really?? Do you know if they'll make it wireless?

I love my Advantage. My only wishes are that it would be wireless and have
room for Cmd, Ctrl, and Alt on both sides.

~~~
redtuesday
I believe they have not said anything about that yet. You can read a bit about
their plans here:
[https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36195.0](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36195.0)

------
shiftpgdn
How is this different than an Ergodox other than it joining together? I can
buy an Erogdox today for $199 shipped from China with cherry greens.

~~~
roel_v
I have an ergodox yet preordered this one too. It's less non-standard (for
better or for worse), has optional modules for trackpoint, touchpad, thumb
cluster etc. I'm curious how it will compare. Also I don't know which ergodox
you have, but for that money with cherries the build quality can't be all that
good. Uhk has a steel base.

------
kentt
I'll buy the split first keyboard with Topre switches. Matias is not enough of
a step up from Cherry to make a difference.

~~~
kod
So buy a utron?
[http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html](http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html)

~~~
randlet
Keyboard layout looks good, but it doesn't look like the two halves can get
far enough apart for me. Also $420USD !!!

~~~
arm
400 USD and up seems to be the general price range for such keyboards in
Japan. See also _The Esrille New Keyboard − NISSE_ ¹ (my personal dream
keyboard).

――――――

¹ — [http://www.esrille.com/keyboard/](http://www.esrille.com/keyboard/)

------
leoc
Good: Split spacebar. Extra thumb button: only one of them per thumb, but
that's a lot better than nothing.

Bad: No pointing stick, thumbable trackpad or other means of mouse-pointer
control, so you still have to move your hand over and back between keyboard to
mouse every time you need to switch between typing and pointer movement.

~~~
rpilgrimr
check the add-on modules: [https://www.crowdsupply.com/ugl/ultimate-hacking-
keyboard/up...](https://www.crowdsupply.com/ugl/ultimate-hacking-
keyboard/updates/addons)

~~~
leoc
Very nice, and as they say quite exceptional. But pointing controls should
really come as part of the default configuration (if not necessarily the
minimal one): they're more important than the keyboard split, let alone clicky
key actions.

~~~
rpilgrimr
You can control pointer with mouse button (left button on 3rd row) and ijkl
for direction + sdf for mouse clicks. works quite well.

------
ebbv
I dunno, I think the ultimate hacker would sometimes reach over to the other
side with her left or right hand. Split keyboards seem like kind of a walled
garden to me.

~~~
rhinoceraptor
It's not as bad as it seems to make the switch. I switched from a regular
QWERTY layout to an ErgoDox. It's split, and it's a columnar keyboard whereas
standard keyboards are staggered like a typewriter.

It took me a week or two be able to touch type comfortably, and now I can
switch back and forth without too much trouble.

