
The staggering rise of India’s super-rich - dmmalam
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/10/the-staggering-rise-of-indias-super-rich
======
thisisit
Over time I have started to dislike long read articles. Most of the time
articles all over the place and inundated with useless fillers.Stuff about
length of hair or type of earphones are just fluff.

And the article confuses the message as well. For example,

 _In the mid-1990s, just two Indians featured in the annual Forbes billionaire
list, racking up around $3bn between them. But against a backdrop of the
gradual economic re-opening that began in 1991, this has quickly changed. By
2016, India had 84 entries on the Forbes billionaire list. Its economy was
then worth around $2.3tn, according to the World Bank. China reached that
level of GDP in 2006, but with just 10 billionaires to show for it. At the
same stage of development, India had created eight times as many._

What has number of billionaires have to do with anything? As per Forbes, 100
and 1 billion are the same.

On the Nirav Modi and Mallya saga, India's bankruptcy system was broken and
many times banks were in doldrums trying to recover dues. There is a new
bankruptcy law which should help to smooth things out. But then the article
spends too much time talking about Mallya and reduces an important piece of
legalisation to a mere mention.

So, while I agree to the premise that India's rise has been astounding and
corruption/cronyism is a problem, this article is not worth anyone's time.

~~~
Lio
My least favourite approach to the "long form" article is where the journalist
is intent on launching into a narrative without making clear in the leading
paragraphs what the real subject is.

I'm not a great author by any means but it just seems so self indulgent when
journalists do that.

~~~
brazzy
Oh fuck, yes.

And then everytime it seems they're finally getting to the meat, they jumb
back to describing someone's upbringing.

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kamaal
India isn't just rich in the general top 1% argument sense. India's upper
middle class is quite rich. And more importantly invisible and hides
everything. This has been possible largely due to a combination of real estate
prices going up due to urbanization, conservative spending and a rich
investment driven culture.

The other factor is gold savings. Most families have a large amount of it, and
provide good insulation against inflation.

Pretty much bulk of India's middle class got rich in the post 1992 era, when
the market were opened up making it easy to do business. The software riches
came due to US money flowing in, the salaries were high. And most people got
to travel abroad. And given foreign exchange factor most people made a killing
till 2005. Back then it was easy to get US visas and work there. The dollar
paid 35 rupees a piece and land prices in most Indian metros(especially
Bangalore) were quite cheap. People who bought lands anywhere in peripheral
Bangalore have seen their wealth increase by crazy factors.

The other factor is again opening up of mass private sector hiring, subsequent
growth in economy and the stock market.

And lastly of course, corruption, nepotism and dowry market.

~~~
mockingbirdy
Is the real estate market still good? I have family abroad and want to invest.

~~~
sidm83
Not good. I've been tracking the prices in Mumbai which has the most expensive
market with the least supply in India and prices have not moved since 2014.
There is potential for drastic fall as per the unsold inventory which may take
over 7 years to sell based on current sales numbers. The Delhi-NCR market has
seen drops of 20-25% as its a much bigger market and developers do not have
the financial muscle compared to the ones in Mumbai.

~~~
sumedh
> There is potential for drastic fall as per the unsold inventory which may
> take over 7 years

I have been hearing that for the last 7 years.

~~~
sidm83
Its not quite out in the open yet, but it is happening when you sit on the
table and negotiate. A prime builder in the most prime location (BKC) is
offering nearly 30% off on initial quote after a few rounds. There is
humongous over supply in areas like Goregaon and Worli/Lower Parel. As per
industry sources there is very little movement for properties north of INR50m
which is essentially every apartment >=2br south from Bandra onwards. Builders
like Oberoi have still not managed to sell flats which have been ready for 3-4
years in Goregaon, resulting in the recent 25% * 4 years scheme. It's a matter
of time till they capitulate. Even otherwise, if they stay at old rates,
they're effectively falling on account of inflation every year.

------
throwawayqdhd
> Politicians spend the money to fund campaigns, but also on handing out
> favours, jobs and cash to constituents. “It’s sort of an unholy nexus,” as
> Raghuram Rajan put it to me during his tenure as head of India’s central
> bank. “Poor public services? Politician fills the gap; politician gets the
> resources from the businessman; politician gets re-elected by the electorate
> for whom he’s filling the gap.”

I know this will never be popular opinion, but as a citizen of a poor,
developing country with widespread corruption, I sometimes have to wonder: is
democracy really the best model for poor nations that don't have the
foundations to foster it?

~~~
thisisit
I hold an even more unpopular opinion - socialism doesn't help the poor which
it actually tries to. Take a look at how China, Russia and even India's elite
have amassed wealth. Purely through a socialistic system which is supposed to
help everyone by giving too much power to a handful of people.

To paraphrase someone on HN - laws tend to made for David to fight Goliath.
But with time Goliath comes to understand the rules and uses it to shut down
the Davids.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
I believe this is the comment you are referring to:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17480914](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17480914)

 _This is an evergreen story. Regulations sold as weapons for davids to defend
against goliaths are instead used by goliaths to fend off davids. It turns out
that Goliath can learn to use a sling too, and can hurl bigger stones with it.
This is why goliaths like regulations so much, and why patents may be more
disease than cure._

~~~
thisisit
Yes, thank you. Tried to find the relevant article using algolia but couldn't
remember the exact thread.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
FYI: I used algolica and limited the search to comments in the past week and
searched for the term "davids" (without quotes).

------
achow
What makes England (London specifically) a desired locations for all the
financial fugitives? I don't hear these kind of cases for any other country.

[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
natio...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/list-
of-14-fugitives-given-to-uk-again/articleshow/62516856.cms)

~~~
tim333
It's got remittance basis taxation which is very easy going on rich foreigners
compared to say Paris or New York, and it's low crime so they don't get
kidnaped and the like. And there's a large community of Indian, Russians and
many other nationalities unlike say Monaco. Good for flights too.

------
sidm83
Not surprising to see such an article in Guardian, known for its left of
center leanings. Most of the billionaires in India have public listed
companies, and have multiplied their wealth with the resultant growth in the
stock markets, hence also contributing to wealth of investors. India's stock
market is far superior and far open, to the ones in China, helping in faster
monetization of their business. I do remember reading here about the crazy
patterns in stocks in China last year, hitting the circuit every day for weeks
and months, because they were allowed to list at a much lower value with very
low circuit breakers, growing at 5% everyday like clockwork. The same happened
in the opposite direction earlier this year and the Chinese market regulator
actually stopped trading in many stocks trying to prevent their fall.

The much maligned demonetization exercise carried out in end 2016 had at least
one major positive - people started putting their money into mutual funds
rather than buying gold. The size of Indian funds has grown manifold since
then, and their contribution has bypassed that of foreign funds. With growing
number of people entering the middle class with disposable incomes, this is
only going to go up.

As for the people like Nirav Modi and Vijay Mallya, an Insolvency and
Bankruptcy code was introduced in 2016 which has started showing results.
Previously banks would spend years trying to get loans back from defaulters
with very little coming back. This law allows quick bankruptcy and sale of
assets while they still hold value.

There is certainly no harm in rise of billionaires if there is reasonable
trickle down effect. And comparing the numbers with China is a bit apples to
oranges as its a far more closed society with potentially many more unknown
billionaires in the ranks of the Communist Party.

------
intended
Wealth inequality is always the problem.

------
known
There is no Inheritance Tax in India;

1% people in India cannot own 60% wealth unless they're running Pyramid
schemes [https://qz.com/843902/1-of-indians-now-hold-nearly-60-of-
the...](https://qz.com/843902/1-of-indians-now-hold-nearly-60-of-the-countrys-
wealth/)

------
known
When will the Brahmin-Bania hegemony end?

[https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/3u2QUPuXBEFPaBQXU2R8mJ/When...](https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/3u2QUPuXBEFPaBQXU2R8mJ/When-
will-the-BrahminBania-hegemony-end.html)

