

Startups and the “Validity of the Idea” - chendy
http://www.tminusminus.com/startups-and-the-validity-of-the-idea-19.htm

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lux
This hit home on my current project, since we're two founders but I'm the solo
coder. My partner has some basic coding experience, enough to know what I'm
talking about, but he's bringing more of the domain knowledge to the table.
He's also producing the help and marketing material, and usability testing as
well.

But what we found is that having that different perspective in things like the
user interface design has helped tremendously. It's resulted in us thinking
through the interface in a way I know neither of us would've done as well on
our own, and has definitely helped make this project my best work to date.

Really what I've learned is that knowing your strengths/limitations and
finding a partner that complements them is critical, but it's also freeing. I
can see why YC says they don't like solo startups. I've tried that before, and
got pretty far (10k+ users), but while it is too much work for one person, I'm
also seeing now how much better it could have been with the right partner's
perspective.

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webwright
A bit long-winded.

I think the wisdom here is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater--
because most biz types are useless doesn't mean they all are. Every business
is different and has different needs- some can benefit from a biz guy right
out of the gates.

That being said, I'm pretty convinced that MOST web startups need an MBA
sitting around like they need a hole in the head. The first test of a startup
is whether they can builds something anyone wants. It's a lot of work, and
most fail.

Domain knowledge and business wisdom is valuable here, but you can get that by
talking to customers/users. There is 10 hours a day of BUILDING to do, and
there sure as heck isn't that much business wisdom to dispense.

There are plenty of exceptions to this rule-- if you have a business offering,
for example, you need someone who has an appetite for selling stuff.

But at the end of the day, you (as a biz guy) need to be able to answer the
question: "What are you going to do for 10 hours a day while I build a
product?". And you need to be able to answer it in such a way that makes me
say, "Wow-- that's way more important than having someone who can code,
design, and write effectively."

~~~
ssharp
I think a lot of people fail to understand what an MBA is and who MBA's were
in their "former" lives. I don't have any statistics in front of me, but from
what I remember looking over, a higher percentage of engineers/technical
degree undergrads go for MBA's compared with Business undergrads. So a lot of
these "beef-headed" MBAs that people seem to LOVE to stereotype as useless on
here, were probably in a position much like yours at point in their lives. I
just don't understand the blatant inferiority complex that exists in the tech
community with people who do productive things other than code.

~~~
webwright
Totally agree-- that's why I said:

"I think the wisdom here is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater--
because most biz types are useless doesn't mean they all are."

But again-- the question is... What productive stuff is there to do in the
first 3-4 months of MOST web startups besides code/design/write? And if you
can't build something, what are you going to do to earn your equity? If the
value you add is down the road a ways, what are you risking while the builders
work for free for 50-60 hours a week for no pay?

~~~
ssharp
I don't know because every business is different. I'm sure if you're
programming all day long you don't want to deal with lawyers, investors,
vendors, etc as well. Also, you likely CAN'T deal with them as effectively as
someone who might have experience in doing so and WANTS to do so.

Besides that, you don't need to be a programmer to help flesh out a design.
You don't need to be a hacker to help grow, shape or evolve an idea. With an
end-product in site, there is plenty of work to be done away from TextMate or
BBEdit!

~~~
webwright
IMO, if you are talking with lawyers, investors or vendors for any significant
period of time during the first 3 months of a startup, you're doing something
very wrong. Though, as you say-- all businesses are different.

I do agree that design is important (I'm a designer myself-- tho if I couldn't
code a bit, too, I wouldn't have enough work to do).

------
timr
_"Of course software startups will need hackers. But startups who wish to be
“successful” need “validated” ideas- and that’s a huge assumption to make. I’m
not trying to claim that only business minded people can bring validated ideas
to the table, but business people can at least afford tables."_

So as I understand it, the thesis of the article is that:

1) The geeks on Beauty and the Geek lack perspective.

2) You, hacker, are probably like the geeks on Beauty and the Geek.

3) Thus, you need a "business guy" to give you the ability to sell things to
the tanorexic blonde girls (and everyone else).

I'm glad that the level of discussion has risen to such a high intellectual
plateau. Clearly, the special training that business school students receive
must _inevitably_ endow them with the unique ability to validate ideas for
market fit. To wit:

 _"It is also worth pointing out that business minded people have been finding
innovative ways to make real money for as long as there has been money to be
made, whereas hackers are still trying to find some green in the grey zone of
the Internet._ "

Right. Because, if the dot-com bubble, the real-estate bubble, and the failure
of such august business institutions as Bear Stearns and Long Term Capital
Management teach us _nothing_ , it is that "business people," left in
isolation, will inevitably create tangible, permanent value out of thin air.
Truly, they are the alchemical wizards of our time.

(On any other day, I might also point out that the "gray area" of the internet
is _totally devoid_ of "business guys" who are trying to make a fast buck. But
that would be self-evident. The internet will always and forever be the
exclusive domain of poorly dressed men who live in their mother's basement,
and that no person of sufficient technical capacity has _ever_ launched a
successful business venture based upon anything other than computers, robots
or comic books.)

~~~
chendy
"tanorexic." nice.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I said this: "The point of all this is that
there are people with creative ideas in all walks of life."

and this "It’s simply a case of mental economics- we all have our strengths,
and participants come out better by trading."

and didn't YOU quote ME on this part? "I’m not trying to claim that only
business minded people can bring validated ideas to the table"

So really, I didn't really touch on anyone "needing" anyone else. The point
was really for people just to keep an open mind. I apologize if my word hacks
weren't elegant. That's not my primary function.

Thanks for jumping to "any other day" for that last bit as well. Was that
through the gmail "custom time" interface? :)

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ssharp
Excellent. Small amounts of self-righteous can be good. Too much and you
become annoying and dangerous to people actually taking your advise. Applying
your experience and trying to apply it across the board is just plain
ignorance. All businesses vary in needs across different stages of growth.
There is no use trying to derive formulas where formulas don't apply.

Interestingly enough, I think this "my way" approach that super hacker takes
is the same type of attitude he likely resents in "business types". In doing
so, he misses the one major thing that IS needed in startups -- flexibility.

