
Anti-vaccination stronghold hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in decades - beat
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/19/anti-vaccination-stronghold-hit-with-worst-chickenpox-outbreak-in-decades/
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bogle
A little info for any carers of children with chickenpox. The scabs can allow
skin bacteria to infect the child. This may present as a swelling around the
scab. It can become life threatening as it can quickly progress to septicaemia
(sepsis) in a matter of hours.

It's rare enough that Accident & Emergency may not recognise it as they'll
only have a handful of cases in a year in a middle-sized city. There could be
a delay in giving that huge cocktail of antibiotics that are going to be
required.

The high-dendency unit is a scary place.

~~~
burfog
That has essentially nothing to do with chickenpox.

Suppose the kid skins his knee. The scabs can allow skin bacteria to infect
the child. This may present as a swelling around the scab. It can become life
threatening as it can quickly progress to septicaemia (sepsis) in a matter of
hours.

Yep. Same with mosquito bites, paper cuts, and slivers. You could DIE!!!!!
Well, you could. You really could.

~~~
bogle
Think about: (a) the number of wounds, (b) the age of the child and (c) that
they are already ill. Also consider the very serious consequences (death).
That increase in the hazard _and_ the potential for serious illness is what
makes this a real risk.

In the UK we don't find it economic to vaccinate the whole population for
chickenpox but if it's an option to pay for it then it would be sensible.

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berbec
It's sad that people look at this and just say "silly anti-vaxxers". The
proper response is "How can parents get with endangering the lives of their
own and their neighbor's children?"

~~~
lentil_soup
or even further, "what is making these parents make the choice to not
vaccinate children?". Is it education? is it distrust of the system?

~~~
burfog
In this case, parents are educated by experience actually getting chickenpox.
Although horrible complications are indeed possible, the risks are really
being blown out of proportion. Chickenpox vaccination is more about
pharmaceutical companies and missed school days.

There is also plenty of distrust. This is to be expected, given the well-known
existence of lobbying by for-profit pharmaceutical companies that are legally
protected from all liability. Specific complaints are that vaccines are
manufactured using tissue cultures from aborted babies, that some of the
diseases aren't even present in the USA (can vaccinate if they come back),
that disease risks are overstated (given modern care and general health), that
vaccine risks are understated (the window of time for a vaccine injury to be
legally accepted is too narrow), and that pharmaceutical companies refuse to
offer some of the vaccines in single-disease form.

For example, one of those combo vaccines (I think the MMR or DTAP) is a
problem for somebody I know. A single component of the vaccine is made from
tissue culture that originates from an aborted baby. The kids would be
vaccinated for the other diseases if it were possible to get separate
vaccinations in the USA. Japan has separate vaccinations available, but a trip
to Japan is a major undertaking.

Some people are resistant to a hard sell. The supposed "education" to push for
vaccination is always very one-sided. People can see it. The harder the push,
the more suspicion is generated. It's sort of like the car dealer experience.

~~~
berbec
Good points and well laid out. I don't quite get the DVs.

One point I'd make, about the "tissue culture that originates from an aborted
baby" vaccine. According to [1], the MMR vaccine:

"The viruses are cultured in aborted fetal tissue cells. The cells were
obtained more than 50 years ago, as a result of elective abortions"

There are no new fetal tissues being "harvested" (I know that's not the proper
term, forgive me) to make more vaccines. They are keeping cultures donated
fifty years ago growing.

I can understand people not liking the hard-sell on vaccines, but what I can't
wrap my head around is how much effort should have to go into the argument
"give your kids these shots so a horrific number of children don't make it to
15". The CDC has a broad info page, but one point comes across crystal clear
to me (even specifically about the MMR vaccine):

"An epidemic of rubella (German measles) in 1964-65 infected 12½ million
Americans, killed 2,000 babies, and caused 11,000 miscarriages. Since 2012, 15
cases of rubella were reported to CDC." [2]

1: [https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-vaccines-contain-
aborted-f...](https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-vaccines-contain-aborted-
fetal-tissue-260337) 2: [https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-
gen/whatifstop.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm)

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herodotus
The article is pay-walled. Here is an alternative:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-
canada-46267038](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46267038)

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jriot
Love seeing all the hate here. Pretty sure all of us grew-up in the era where
we contracted chicken-pox. We took an oatmeal bath, spent a few days at home,
and all was well again.

~~~
jonheller
My sister was sick enough from chicken pox that her doctor told her to take
aspirin. She died about a week later from Reye's Syndrome. So no, we were all
not well again.

~~~
burfog
Blame that death on the doctor being unaware of problems with aspirin. (many
decades ago?) Chickenpox barely had anything to do with the death; many
ordinary illnesses would give the same result.

~~~
bogle
A quick check of what Reye's Syndrome was would have told you that it is both
associated with chickenpox and the first paper to make the link to aspirin was
in 1989 (add time for that information to be fully understood and
disseminated).

~~~
burfog
It's also associated with the flu and, generally, with upper respiratory tract
infections.

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dannytip
Theres a chickenpox vaccine? It's not part of the childhood vaccination
program here in the UK.

~~~
bm98
Interesting - it's part of the routine childhood schedule in the US but not in
the UK. From NHS: "Why isn't the chickenpox vaccination part of the routine
childhood immunisation schedule?"

[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/chickenpox-
vaccin...](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine-
questions-answers/#why-isnt-the-chickenpox-vaccination-part-of-the-routine-
childhood-immunisation-schedule)

~~~
LitFan
Paraphrased: Herd immunity created by most people getting the chicken pox
vaccine would make it less likely for people who did not get the vaccine to
get chicken pox early in life, leaving them susceptible to contracting it
later in life.

It sounds like those people should _also_ get vaccinated, rather than not
requiring anyone to be vaccinated.

------
danw1979
meanwhile in the UK we have actual chickenpox parties to try and spread the
infection to as many children as possible while they are still young enough
that it doesn’t cause the complications it does when you reach adulthood...

[https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/childrens-
health/...](https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/childrens-health/why-
are-children-in-the-uk-not-vaccinated-against-chickenpox/)

~~~
orev
It was the same in the US until the vaccine came out. Seems these parents
aren’t only dumb enough the be anti-vaxxers, they’re also dumb enough to not
even do the things everyone did before the vaccine existed.

------
maeln
> "We find that our parents are highly motivated to choose exactly what they
> want for their children. We, as a school, do not discriminate based on a
> child's medical history or medical condition."

Being French, this seems really mindless to me. If schools truly care about
the children they are educating, they should require vaccination and explain
to the parents why not vaccinating their kids is dangerous for them and the
others. School is a place to learn and acquire knowledge, it shouldn't be
complacent with anti-scientific belief.

------
woliveirajr
I couldn't find if the outbreak is also affecting people who were previously
vaccinated. This would give details on how effective vaccination really was,
i.e., if vaccination alone was sufficient to prevent some people from getting
infected and how many of the unvaccinated was infected.

~~~
bogle
I don't think that's the point of the article. For efficacy you'd need a
properly controlled trial comparing vaccinations, _not_ deliberatly failing to
vaccinate and thus endangering children.

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r00fus
There's no way we can reach these idiotic parents or help their unfortunate
kids.

For those of us with sense, how can we find out if we happen to be in one of
those "strongholds" and make sure our school district doesn't go that way? Are
exemption% publicly listed?

I may not be able to stop someone endangering their kids and others nearby,
but if I can stop it happening near me (or move away in worst case), I want to
know.

------
Rjevski
Glad to see natural selection working as intended.

~~~
djohnston
eh, it's usually not the anti vaxers, but their children, who suffer. so it's
not some cosmic justice, just a sad case of parental neglect

~~~
6t6t6t6
Well, if you offspring don't make it until the age they can reproduce, it's
still natural selection...

