
A Guide to the Breads of India - Petiver
http://luckypeach.com/guides/guide-breads-india/
======
sean_patel
Nice writeup, but calling Dosa, Appam and Iddiappam "Breads" is more than a
stretch. None of these 3 have the major ingredients of what makes a bread. And
it's missing the most important Indian bread - the Naan (despite the tagline
saying "go beyond the Naan").

1) Dosa - Crepe made from fermented lentil & rice paste

2) Appam - Rice pancake

3) Iddiappam - Steamed rice noodles.

None of these are anywhere close to the traditional Bread as we know them.

~~~
jasim
Only if you believe that there is a canonical definition of bread, which
refers to the things made out of wheat flour, whose only acceptable meaning is
what the western hemisphere thinks of as bread.

Dosa, Appam, and Idiappam are breads, even though even in South India, if you
ask for "bread" from your local grocer, they'd give you sliced loaves. We use
the word bread to refer to these other staple breakfast dishes in an
anglicized context, because it maps better than any other word to the meaning
we want to convey. Which is why restaurant menus categorizes them under
"Indian Breads", and if you accept that language is mutable and responds to
how people use it, this is as good an alternative meaning as it can get.

~~~
sean_patel
> canonical definition of bread.

Love it! Spoken like a true engineer :)

The process of Baking is what makes a Bread a bread. If it's not baked in an
oven, it's not Bread. I didn't make that up, that what has defined a Bread
since the beginning of time :)

Dosa is fried on a stovetop pan. Appam is cooked on a stovetop pan. Iddiappam
is steamed on stovetop using water. None of these are baked at any time in the
process.

~~~
tptacek
The process of baking is almost definitely not what makes a bread a bread. We
had breads long before we had ovens, and we have things that are indisputably
breads today that aren't cooked inside ovens. Even today, we can readily cook
breads that are typically cooked in an oven over a suitably large open fire or
uncovered grill.

A bread is a solid stable foam created by heating a dough made primarily of
milled plant matter and water. There are no breads that aren't foams, and
there are no breads I'm aware of that made primarily of something that isn't
plant matter or that hasn't been crushed or otherwise processed to create a
homogenous dough with a water-based liquid.

~~~
hueving
So would you call a birthday cake a bread then?

~~~
jpatokal
It's common in the West to equate "bread" with things that are savoury, but a
visit to your local Asian bakery will quickly demolish that notion.

So, yes, a birthday cake is a special type of highly decorated, sweet "bread".
Or you can take a leaf from the Swedish/Finnish book and have a savoury cake:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5st%C3%A5rta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5st%C3%A5rta)

~~~
vesinisa
That, and birthday cake, are as bread as pizza is bread (and yes, pizza _is_
bread.)

If you find it hard to believe, it helps to know there are many varieties of
pizza in Italy that do not include tomato sauce (pizza bianca). For example,
quatro formaggi is often without sauce. But the plainer pizze bianche are
actually similar to focaccia, which is a cousin of the world famous pizza, and
indisputably bread.

So at what point along the focaccia - pizza continuum does the dish become un-
bread? At the addition of tomato sauce? Then how come is quatro formaggi so
often served in pizzerias? At the addition of cheese? Marinara, one of the
most classical of all pizzas, is defined by its lack of milk-based ingredients
(which do not preserve at sea, hence the name.)

Clearly, pizza, too, is bread.

~~~
thaumasiotes
Well, pizza crust is bread. Pizza is only bread in the same sense that a
sandwich "is" bread.

------
berberous
I really wish this came with real pictures instead of fanciful illustrations.

~~~
halcyondaze
It will never cease to amaze me how negative the overall comments are on HN.

~~~
sumedh
Its not a negative comment, its a constructive feedback. If they had real pics
of those items I guarantee you that your brain would tell you to go to the
nearest Indian restaurant and get eat all that food.

~~~
halcyondaze
It didn't do that after I googled a few images

~~~
sumedh
Maybe you didnt see the right images.

------
gumby
The comment about the "North-South/wheat-rice axis" really hit home (though I
grew up, outside India, eating both).

In 1984 I was in Sri Lanka as the civil war was gearing up. It was a rather
exciting time, and not in the good sense of "exciting. From there I flew up to
Delhi to stay with my auntie and uncle. Our entire dinner table conversation
the night I arrived was the following:

    
    
      Uncle: "You were in Sri Lanka?"
      Me: "Yes"
      Uncle: "Sinhalese?" (the Buddhist majority in Sri Lanka)
      Me: "Yes"
      Uncle: "Huh.  Rice eaters."
    

(In the realms of exciting: a few weeks later I was in Delhi when the PM was
assassinated. That whole summer and fall was crazy).

~~~
chewxy
This north=wheat/south=rice axis also exists in China. When I visited the
southern parts of China this year, the cuisine was completely different from
the baozi/bread/noodle heavy cuisine of the north. Very rice heavy. In fact I
was entertained by a story about how Guilin rice noodles were invented because
a governor from the north didn't like rice and ordered noodles to be made from
rice about 1400 years ago.

Spices used were different too - the southern cuisines had spices catered to
warmer weather while in cities like Beijing the spices cater more to colder
weather. I found that interesting.

------
jessaustin
Perhaps this would have undermined the overall snootiness of TFA, but it would
have been nice to have an entry for _naan_ , even if it was "only" introduced
in the 12th century.

I'll admit, though, that the best _naan_ I've had (and I've had a lot...) was
at an Afghan place I used to frequent in the basement of Sim Lim Square,
rather than at any Indian restaurant.

~~~
geodel
I agree. At least in US naans in Indian restaurants are rather sad piece of
bread. Pakistani/Afghani/Turkish places always make glorious naans.

~~~
coldpie
If you like to cook, making naan at home is pretty easy and delicious. I fry
it in a cast iron skillet for a couple minutes per side. Then top with
whatever thick stew you like, Indian or otherwise.

~~~
mholmes680
recipe? I've never tried Indian at home, mainly because its intimidating and
seems time consuming to learn what each of the cooking words means (for this
very limited american palate at least). I dont necessarily have time to
remember when atta or maida should be used (or what they are again), and what
my convenient american-kitchen equivalent of a tava or tandoor could be...

Now... "put some yogurt, milk, water, AP flour and X,Y,Z in a cast-iron pan
and fry it"? Yes that I can handle...and will probably come back to.

I guess I've never found the right "bridge" to Indian cooking... any links
would be helpful.

~~~
coldpie
I might have the quantities off, but I use something like, 14 oz of AP flour,
1/2 cup of yogurt, 3/4 cup of water, 1 tsp of yeast, 1/8 tsp of baking powder,
2 tbsp of olive oil, 1 tsp of salt. Activate the yeast in water, mix all the
ingredients until combined, but don't need to knead. It should be quite wet.
Let rise for 2-4 hours. Then split into 6-8 balls, flatten by hand and/or with
a rolling pin, around 9" wide and 1/4" deep, and fry in a skillet on medium.

As for curries, they're a little tricky to do traditionally (ask me about
burning whole spices in oil!), but you can make plenty delicious "American-
style" Indian food in a crock pot. One of our favorites is crock pot chicken
tikka, google it.

~~~
greglindahl
A trick I was taught in an Indian cooking class is to turn off the heat while
frying the spices. Then turn it back on again when you add more stuff.

------
skbohra123
Inded, a very detailed descriptions of various types of breads of India. Even
being an Indian, I didn't know about many of them.

I would like to add another one in the list, `bajra roti`, which is eaten in
state of Rajasthan. It's made by millet flour[0].

[0] [http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/bajra-roti-bajra-
bhakri/](http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/bajra-roti-bajra-bhakri/)

~~~
bluesmoon
It is quite extensive, though there are still a few missing. Bajri Roti, Akki
Roti, Ragi Roti, Missi Roti, Makki Roti, Rotti (the crisp ones eaten with Kori
Rotti), phulka, tava chappati, poi, dhokli (in dal dhokli), puri, idlis (and
all variations of it), sannas, fugiyas, and this is just what I can remember
from the North & West.

~~~
vram22
Oh mentioning all those other varieties reminded me of methi thepla. Not sure
what it is made of - I first used to think atta (whole wheat flour) but may
have read later that it is of besan (chickpea flour) or a combo of besan and
atta. Anyway, they are so tasty that you can eat them plain. Often buy them
from the neighborhood kirana store and keep, sometimes to have as an after-
dinner snack if working late.

~~~
bluesmoon
Yes, methi thepla is made of a mix of besan and atta. My wife's mom makes the
best theplas and chundo.

------
shripadk
Just a few corrections for fellow travelers:

1\. Kulcha and Paratha is available in any North Indian restaurant in any part
of India. It is not restricted to Kashmir / Punjab or North India as the
article suggests.

2\. Vade originated in South India and not Western India. It is available in
any South Indian restaurant in any part of India. It is typically eaten with
Idlies. If you pick any menu in a South Indian restaurant you'll find that it
is written as "Idly-Vada" (not to be confused with Vada-Pav).

3\. Thalipeth is also available in North Karnataka apart from Maharashtra.

4\. Bhakri is also available in North Karnataka.

5\. Pav is available in any North Indian restaurant in any part of India. Not
restricted to Mumbai/Goa.

~~~
bluesmoon
Vade and Vada are different things. Vade is a very Maharashtrian thing (think
daal vadi) and looks nothing like either medu vada or aloo bonda (vada pav)

Also, if you're in the US, you can get most of these frozen in any medium
sized Indian store.

~~~
shripadk
Ah ok I get what you are saying. The thing is, in Karnataka, we use Vade/Vada
interchangeably for "Medu Vada" even though it is not the same as "Vada" in
"Vada Pav". Hence the confusion. Thanks for the correction!

~~~
bluesmoon
I hear you. I've lived in both states. I also think it's cool that the Medu
Vada is different in Coastal Karnataka (Mangalore/Konkan region), Inner
Karnataka, Goa & Tamil Nadu.

------
geooooooooobox
Malabar Porotha for the win!!!!!!!!! Fellow hackers, malabar porotha + fried
beef -> foodgasm

~~~
harichinnan
Malabar Porotta and beef has become a symbol of resistance for us Keralites.
The central governmemt has tried to enact beef bans across the country as cow
is holy in North Indian version of Hinduism.

------
pritianka
HUGE Bhatoora and Rumali roti fan. I really wish more restaurants in the US
served rumali roti. I haven't had much success finding. For those who love
bhatooras, I've found that even if it it's not listed on the menu, if you ask
for it they have it :-)

------
fareesh
There used to be this Pakistani run diner across the street from the rear
entrance of Hotel Pennsylvania on 7th avenue in NYC. Their breads were
delicious - better than most that I've eaten here in India. Gave me the
impression that our long lost fellow countrymen across the border have an
enviable time at the dinner table by comparison. Unfortunately, haven't had
the chance to sample the "real thing" in its natural habitat. Maybe someday!

~~~
ketpat
As an Indian guy who grew up on curry, I tasted a Lahori Karahi dish a few
years ago, best curry I ever had.

------
frandroid
> is really a foreign dish, prepared using refined flour, which came across
> the Himalayas from central Asia in the twelfth century, along with Muslim
> settlers.

It would be nice of Indians to stop considering the bread of settlers who came
9 centuries ago as _foreign_...

Edit: The writer seems to be American, but it's an attitude that's pervasive
of the Hindu Right anyway...

~~~
clock_tower
At least speaking for myself, I can't complain; an invader or conqueror can
still feel foreign after centuries have passed. If the Irish can throw off the
Saxon yoke after "Eight Hundred Years of Oppression" (roughly 1250-1950), I
think the Indians can do the same. (EDIT: Not with the literal Saxon yoke,
although they _did_ have occasion to free themselves of England...) Islam in
the Subcontinent is at least as much an invasive, alien presence as England in
Celtic Britain (or England in all of Britain, when you consider Anglo-Saxon
origins), or Germans in the Slavic world -- or the US in the US, for that
matter.

EDIT: But there are entries here about "Indian breads" that originate at the
Mughal court, derived from Afghan or other Islamic traditions. _Those aren 't
Indian breads_ if naan isn't!

~~~
tptacek
They're Indian in the same sense that New York City pizza is American and not
Italian --- it would be silly to call NYC pizza "Italian", as it's an
indigenous American dish that is merely inspired by an Italian predecessor.

A good acid test is, did Indian culinary culture substantially alter the dish?
In the case of naan, no, it probably didn't. In other cases, more so.

~~~
ZenoArrow
> "it would be silly to call NYC pizza "Italian", as it's an indigenous
> American dish that is merely inspired by an Italian predecessor"

What makes NYC pizza its own food type? There might be some minor differences
like the type of dough commonly used, but I remember NYC pizza being fairly
conventional (larger than average slices, not much else to distinguish it).

If NYC pizza is American, you could use the same logic to state that curry was
British. There are regional variations of curry that were popularised in
Britain. However, it doesn't seem right to claim them as solely British,
considering most of the culinary innovation that led up to these dishes
happened elsewhere.

~~~
shostack
What makes NY pizza unique to NY? The grease, lack of good crust and soaked
cardboard consistency mostly.

I'm from Chicago though so I'm probably not the best person to ask about NY
pizza since we have different preferences there ;)

~~~
tptacek
We make a fine pizza-flavored cassarole.

------
nojvek
If you're around Seattle area, small Hindu temples sometimes have a festival
event called annakut, usually in oct-nov where they make 100+ Indian dishes.
Sometimes a 1000. A good time to explore the variety of different foods.

I'm not religious but I absolutely adore the Indian rituals and festivals.

~~~
contingencies
Though Sydney is pretty damn good and I lived right near Brick Lane in London
(with a Sri Lankan boss), the overseas subcontinental community I've most
enjoyed culinarily is that of Bangkok. There are some absolutely amazing
restaurants there, and you can take your pick of country of origin, north or
south, state or region, religious variant (Muslim, Jain, Hindu, etc.), etc.
Typical _thali_ prices are ~100-200THB (~3-6USD). There are even free meals at
some of the temples. Leaves Singapore in the dust.

------
arjn
Some comments including what some have already pointed out :

\- Naans are not usually made in Indian homes. They are much more common in
restaurants. They are also not considered to be as healthy as rotis or
phulkas.

\- Indians (mostly North Indians) eat rotis, chapatis , phulkas (basically an
inflated chapati) or parathas.

\- A well made phulka or paratha can be absolutely delicious.

\- There are many kinds of parathas and the food has long ago spread south
where they have their own kinds.

\- I don't think dosas or appams can be considered breads. I think they're
closer to crepes.

\- There seems to be much missing from this list including some Goan breads
(can't recall the names) and some other South Indian types.

~~~
vram22
> some Goan breads

Sanna or sanas is one - someone else mentioned it in this thread, the comment
that has akki roti, IIRC. Sanna is a bit like Kerala appams, I think. Had it
only a few times. I think they put some palm juice in it too. Tastes and feels
like a light extra-fluffy idli, except a bit sweet.

Also that reminds me of bajra roti. Tasty but also heavy - just one can make
an average person feel full. Mainly had it in Maharashtra but may be there in
some other states too. And there is makke ki roti - a standard Punjabi
favorite. Only had it a few times (it was good); a lot of people swear by it -
with sarson ka saag (mustard greens).

~~~
bluesmoon
Sannas are made with Palm Toddy, which MUST be used before 7am (it's collected
overnight and ferments quickly).

------
hashhar
Wow, this managed to teach me a lot about my own country and now I can't wait
for my exams to end and get a taste of some of them.

I really like when someone puts in this much of effort in creating content.

------
neeleshs
Great article and introduced me to some interesting new ones! This is still
scratching the surface. With such a broad view of what a bread is, some more
south indian stuff :

# Idly - steamed buns made of lentil/rice batter

# Rava idli - Spiced semolina steamed buns

# Paddu - small griddle fried buns made of spiced lentil/rice batter

# Tellevu - crisp & thin dosa made of cucumber & rice batter

# Todadev - sweet, crisp & thin layers of jaggery/sugar cane juice, cardamom
and rice baked on top a hot inverted pot

The last two are really a speciality from my community from the Western Ghats

------
ashayh
I had to do 10 google queries to find "Randnya roti" as there is no canonical
English spelling.

[https://glutlust.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/nagpurs-native-
bre...](https://glutlust.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/nagpurs-native-bread/)

There is another central Indian bread called "pahile" or some such, google
cannot find it.

------
bandrami
Man I miss a good pav.

------
ohstopitu
I find it funny that I've tried almost all of them (without giving it another
thought) in Dubai when I was growing up, but I've been missing this ever since
I moved to Canada.

~~~
cthalupa
Do you have Indian supermarkets where you are in Canada? My freezer is often
full of of various types of bread that the GF has brought home.

Honestly pretty tasty if you throw them in a pan with a little ghee or butter.

... I actually sub a few types of them in if I'm making a quesadilla and don't
have reasonably fresh tortillas.

~~~
ohstopitu
There are a few shops an hour away. However, like I've always said "it's not
the same".

As an example, try having Maggie noodles (or even indomie noodles) from India,
Middle east and North America - all taste different.

------
SippinLean
I mostly eat roti/chapatis and puris; are they in this article under a
different name?

Is uttapam just an appam variant?

~~~
vram22
>I mostly eat roti/chapatis and puris; are they in this article under a
different name?

They are mentioned in the first paragraph of the article:

"Before that, North India’s unleavened wheat-based flatbreads—rotis, chapatis,
and puris—would have been made from whole grains"

but don't seem to have separate entries, on a quick search of it.

>Is uttapam just an appam variant?

No. Appam is a Kerala dish. Uttapam and dosa are in the whole of South India
(and of course now a lot of the world, at least dosa is). The dough for appam
might be the same or similar as dosa/dosai and uttapam, though they may add
other things to it, like toddy or neera (fermented or unfermented palm juice),
for the consistency and a bit of a sweet taste. But uttapam is a cousin of the
dosa, just thicker and often with a good amount of finely chopped onion and a
bit of chopped green chili sprinkled on top, and flipped over so the top side
is fried too (same with dosa, (shallow) fried on both sides).

~~~
SippinLean
>They are mentioned in the first paragraph of the article:

I saw that, I more meant did they have a detailed description like the other
ones, just under a different name?

Thanks for the info on the uttapam!

~~~
vram22
>I saw that, I more meant did they have a detailed description like the other
ones, just under a different name?

Not much. I think I searched for all three in it just before commenting.
Though other forms of roti like rumali roti are mentioned.

>Thanks for the info on the uttapam!

NP.

------
whistlerbrk
A good paratha stuffed with something like peas dipped into a slightly
sweetened yogurt is revelatory.

~~~
vram22
Agreed. Any good paratha, with a stuffing and/or a side, actually. Some common
stuffings I've had parathas with: radish (mooli), peas (matar), potato (alu),
fenugreek leaf (methi), Indian cottage cheese (paneer), ... And a hot (aka
spicy) chutney to go with it is even better.

------
aidenn0
I had a college roommate whose family was from Punjab (though he was born in
the US). His mom would send Parathas regularly and it was _delicious_. He
reserved the potato & onion ones for his own study food so I never got to try
those though.

------
myrandomcomment
The Bhatoora should be a Puri.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puri_(food)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puri_\(food\))

My favorite when done right. Keeping it from being oily is key.

~~~
rv11
both are different. poori is wheat and bhatoora is maida.

------
mehulkar
Shouldn't naan and generic "roti/chappati" be in the list also?

------
pksadiq
Also note that most of us usually eat by hand (though this is changing due to
the influence of west).

I find any food less tasty when eaten not using hand.

------
rvalue
The website didn't do a good job at all with the images it used to describe
all the items

------
pixel05
Where is my beloved uttapam?

------
wonks
Thank God you posted this; my office ordered Indian food today.

