
With cops away, it’s like Capitol Hill is slipping back to the Pinkerton’s era - Plasmoid
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/with-cops-away-its-like-capitol-hill-is-slipping-back-to-the-pinkertons-era/
======
cft
I recently took two years off and drove from San Francisco to Panama. I spent
a lot of time in El Salvador and in Honduras and made some observations.
Police in those countries are invisible (non-existent?). You can pretty much
do what you want- Honduras just built a new highway system, you can drive as
fast as your engine allows. But when you get to know people, the owners of
small businesses will tell you that there's another kind of protection. I
would call it racket. In San Pedro Sula especially, when you stop paying for
protection, your troubles start. Even on the smallest personal level: there
are no meters in the center. We parked on a public street, and a 15 years old
teenager came and asked 20 Lempiras for parking. My very experienced German
companion wanted to ignore him, but then the teen's "supervisors" showed up.
They looked like people you don't want to mess with. They politely offered the
schedule: 1h is 20, 30min is 10 and left. We opted tor 30min, and the teen
timed us to a minute on his watch. In exchange, he "guarded" my California
plated car and blocked the upcoming traffic so that I could leave the parking
spot (and that he could get another "customer"). I believe some people would
actually prefer that system, but so far I liked the American system better.

~~~
yardie
Similar happened to me in Morocco. Parked in a public park. Guy came over and
told me it was 20 dirham. I Argued with him a little bit pointing out it’s a
public parking lot and there is no meter. Spouse told me to pay the man or he
may cause trouble. I relented thinking of the damage he could cause to our
rental. He did guard our car and stopped traffic.

Police were prevalent, just setting up speed traps and shaking down tourists.

~~~
X6S1x6Okd1st
I had that happen in Capetown. It was cheap enough I was happy to pay the guy
and be done with it. I'd feel differently if I was local, but I also obviously
looked like a tourist, had an American accept etc.

~~~
6nf
This is everywhere in South Africa. It annoys people but it's not worth making
a fuss over. It's clearly extortion but it's so widespread for so many years
that it's de-facto legal.

------
reidjs
I really have no idea who to believe when it comes to the CHOP zone because
there’s so many incentives to lie. I’m curious if anyone on HN lives nearby
and can comment on their experience. Thanks.

~~~
lykr0n
I lived above it. I can answer some questions.

Proof: [https://imgur.com/a/7hKqmUe](https://imgur.com/a/7hKqmUe)

Authoritative Sources of information:

\- [https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/](https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/)

\- [https://twitter.com/Omarisal](https://twitter.com/Omarisal)

To kick things off:

\- Local business hired a PMC/Local Armed Security group (don't remember the
name) to provide real security after Car Tender was attacked. On the night
that happened, they had a dude with an AR15. What happened was some junkie/non
protester jumped a fence, started a fire, took some cash, and keys to
vehicles. The owners (dude with a gun) detained him, but protesters started
mobbing and forced them to release the dude who broke in. Some stuff was
recovered by the mob.

\- There was at least two armed groups of volunteer security. One organized
one (the gun club mentioned and the now well known picture of the dude with
the ar15, vest, and green bandana- this dude:
[https://libertyunyielding.com/wp-
content/uploads/2020/06/arm...](https://libertyunyielding.com/wp-
content/uploads/2020/06/armed-guard-ar-CHAZ-1200x630.jpg)) was part of it.
From what I've been told, they were organized and mostly on the roof providing
overwatch and sniper support in case something happened. The other group was
possible gang bangers- these are the people who shot the white jeep and most
likely executed one person. Then there is "Raz." I am unware of his
involvement other then breaking multiple state and federal firearms laws.

\- Towards the end, a majority of the population was a mixture of homeless,
gang members, and non-local people who came to support the vision of CHAZ.
There was protesters, but their numbers deminished

~~~
_bxg1
I support drastic police reform, but anyone who thinks pure anarchy will work
clearly doesn't know much history. It's been tried time and again and again.
The sad truth is that it always implodes.

~~~
lykr0n
I do as well. 100% we need reform.

There are more then a few "for sale" signs in Capital Hill that I've walked
past in the past few weeks. I watched a few people move out of my building and
I'm planning on leaving shortly when I land a new job (or I don't)- just gotta
find out which.

------
Aloha
I'd like to note, this is from before the Mayor ordered the cops back in to
break it up.

This quote however is a worthy take away:

"As for “Defund the Police,” that slogan doesn’t mean get rid of the police
completely. It’s to cut their budget and demilitarize their roles while
boosting social services. This is a rational goal, but we can already see one
possible unintended outcome if the people of Seattle perceive that traditional
police services are declining. Those with money will just hire their own “high
threat private protection services.” They’re already doing it.

There’s a ton of work to be done reforming the police. But going back to the
Pinkerton’s era has got to be one of worst ways to reduce inequality in a city
already riven by it."

~~~
_bxg1
It's hard not to think there's also a "we'll take our ball and go home"
attitude going on here. People call to reign in the police, so instead of
learning to de-escalate the situation they throw their hands up, stop policing
an area altogether, and say "see what happens when we don't get to do things
our way?"

------
bpodgursky
This is a bit dated:

\- It misses the part where the CHAZ "security" murdered a black teenager, and
tried to kill another: [https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/night-of-
gunfire-...](https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/06/night-of-gunfire-at-
capitol-hill-protest-zone-sends-at-least-two-to-hospital/) (topical to the
article, though)

\- The camp is gone, swept up by the SPD re-occupying the precinct. Wrapped up
a couple weeks ago.

If you want on-the-ground reports from people in the neighborhood (not really
the camp itself), there are a LOT of threads about the CHAZ/CHOP on reddit:
[https://reddit.com/r/seattle](https://reddit.com/r/seattle). Lot of trolling,
lot of flaming, but also a lot of people who live on cap hill who talk about
their experience living next to it.

~~~
lipstone
They did mention his death, they just didn't mention it was CHOP security that
murdered him, or the video evidence of the execution ("Oh you're still alive?"
followed by a gunshot), or the fact that he was black (ironically making CHOP
the greatest per-capita rate of police killings of unarmed black people). They
did however mention the very incredulous rumor that the murdered teen and his
friend were shooting, which there is no evidence for and a lot of evidence
against.

Honestly, it's weird that an article criticizing the CHOP security debacle
would decide to leave out pertinent details that help bolster the critique.

As a side note, there is both/r/seattle and /r/seattlewa. Both of them are
seeing heavy traffic from out-of-towners right now, but the general divide is
/r/seattle is the left-leaning one and /r/seattlewa is the right-leaning one
(at least within the context of Seattle).

~~~
bpodgursky
Yeah, I check out both, but didn't feel like wading into that hairball. And to
be honest, just picked the one less likely to inspire downvotes and
complaints.

------
pcstl
Who'd guess that advocating for less policing without providing a clear
alternative would be terrible for everyone except for those who can pay for
private security.

Even bad cops are better than no cops.

------
rayiner
Unintentionally libertarian.

~~~
ezluckyfree
the fundamental problem with trying to be ancom inside an unrelentingly
capitalist system

------
Gangbusters
In a new post-police era:

The rich will have private securty.

The middle class will have good guns and good ammo.

The poor will have nothing and suffer.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
Your imagined new era in Seattle is already over, we are back to the police
acting normally.

~~~
lipstone
Considering they're likely to defund police budget by 50%, I'd say that's very
wrong.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
I'd support major changes in the police funding and move more to social
services, but I'm really skeptical it will happen. The mayor doesn't seem like
a rock the boat kind of person.

