
New airplane seat design to make it easier to sleep in economy - prostoalex
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/interspace-new-airplane-seat/index.html
======
crazygringo
Wow, I can’t believe how dismissive most of the comments here are.

The idea of adding folding wings to _existing_ seat dimensions could be a
_huge, huge improvement_ for sleeping on flights.

No, it’s not changing or solving anything else. Yes the model is tiny. No this
isn’t solving existing recline issues if you’re 6’5”. If you have incredibly
broad shoulders then you might not be able to use the wings but you can still
leave them folded up and it’s the same as now.

But this is still an _improvement_. This is a site for hackers looking to
improve things. This feels like a really clever seat hack to me.

Can we actually just appreciate that it could be an improvement, rather than
just rail on airline seat sizes? This is making seats _better_ not worse.

~~~
rpiguy
Let's say this adds 10 pounds to each seat times 150-400 seats. No way the
airlines would go for it they are trying to cut weight from the planes to
scrape every ounce of fuel economy out of the airframe. It is a non-starter.

Airlines also have zero incentive to increase passenger comfort because most
airlines operate near capacity (all flights full/overbooked) on most routes
because of deregulation. You have no alternative, so why would they spend
money?

The best time to fly was immediately after 9/11\. Airlines were failing
because people stopped flying. Half of every flight was empty, and the
airlines were fighting for your business adding technology, entertainment, and
cutting fares. The airlines cared about you when they had to fight for your
business. Within 10 years they were profitable again, at capacity again, and
massively started to cut services (food, baggage, etc.)

In no way am I advocating another 9/11 just to be clear. I am only reflecting
on my own experiences flying.

~~~
chrisseaton
> Airlines also have zero incentive to increase passenger comfort

Airlines seem in a constant fight for passenger comfort to me! Some have as
many as five cabin tiers, attempting to make as many people as comfortable as
their budgets will allow. There's competition to make the most luxurious
lounges. Out-fitting of power and WiFi seems to have been effective. Whole new
aircraft like the 787 are designed with passenger comfort as a priority.

> In no way am I advocating another 9/11

Well at least you're being moderate then!

~~~
notacoward
> Airlines seem in a constant fight for passenger comfort to me!

Passenger comfort is what they like to _talk_ about. That doesn't mean it's
what they're really trying to optimize. They optimize for density too, but
they're not about to advertise that. It's dangerous to mistake marketing for
reality. So yeah, they'll add another cabin tier. Then they'll charge a fee
for it _and_ reduce the seat pitch elsewhere on their next order. It works
really well when there are a few people who can pay for the upgrade out of
their own pocket (most companies won't reimburse for it), but that's not
really optimizing for comfort. And most people _never_ get to use the lounges.

It's good to be one of those extra-revenue types, but when I take advantage of
those things I'm keenly aware that I'm exercising a form of privilege. For
most people, air travel isn't getting more enjoyable.

------
oceliker
> The designers are considering adding facial recognition technology to the
> design.

Um, what

> In fitting with the trend towards more personalized, data-driven flying
> experiences, New Territory is keen to add facial recognition technology to
> the mix too.

> The idea is that as the seat wing recognizes that you've fallen asleep,
> it'll automatically turn off the movie playing on your IFE.

This could be the worst idea ever. Have cameras pointed at every flyer for the
duration of the flight, for the incredibly minor benefit of stopping your
movie? To me this sounds like they wanted to add facial recognition
regardless, so they found a problem to their solution.

~~~
puranjay
> This could be the worst idea ever. Have cameras pointed at every flyer for
> the duration of the flight, for the incredibly minor benefit of stopping
> your movie

This seems to be uniform across all surveillance technology. The purported
convenience is so laughably minor that it's almost a parody.

Like Alexa - people are willing to have a Big Brother-esque speaker inside
their homes for the convenience of _playing some music_? Is that all it takes?

~~~
chki
To be fair, everybody who has Alexa already has a phone constantly with them
everywhere. So it's just one extra microphone, not something completely
different.

~~~
kumarvvr
However, a smartphone is more transparent, relatively, over what it does. Not
so much with Alexa.

~~~
resfirestar
Not sure what specifically you mean. Most smartphones today come with one of
the assistants (Google, Siri, Alexa, or Bixby) turned on by default.

~~~
smichel17
..which you can turn off or disable..

~~~
limomium
Can you?

No matter how many damn Google Assistant settings I disable in how many
fractal menus, it STILL "helpfully" pops up if I say out loud "ok google"!

Like, "heyy I noticed you're trying to talk to me though I'm disabled, would
you like to enable me?"

Stop spying on me you piece of malware.

~~~
gnulynnux
What kind of Android do you have? Are you sure you went through all the
settings?

And, still, I can install LineageOS or other privacy-respecting systems on my
phone. We don't have any custom firmware for an Echo or Alexa yet (to the best
of my knowledge.)

~~~
wongarsu
The number of phones actually supported by lineageOS is a rounding error,
unless you count unofficial incomplete builds by random untrusted people on
some forum.

------
vxNsr
Idk what economy cabins these people are sitting in but those seats look at
least business-sized to me. No US airline will be sticking something that big
in economy. And facial-recog? Airlines are moving away from putting anything
in the seat-backs at all and now you wanna put expensive camera tech in there?

~~~
pavel_lishin
The seats themselves look fine, but the amount of legroom that the model has
is laughable. The only person I fly with who can cross her legs on an airplane
like that is my 3 year old daughter.

~~~
croon
They're isolated in a display booth. so nothing in front of the seat.

It wouldn't sell, but they should've really displayed them with a
delimiter/wall/something in front, in usual economy spacing, if they were
going for authenticity. I understand why they wouldn't/didn't.

------
ccamrobertson
Those look like Premium Economy seats based on their generous width, not the
crushing 17"-and-change width of typical Economy seats.

~~~
singron
All the pictures are of women in the seats. Men often have broader shoulders
and larger upper arms. If I sit next to another man, we sometimes make contact
on the upper arms for most the flight. The wings seem to take up a couple
inches themselves, so it could become too cramped horizontally to be
comfortable.

~~~
grendelt
I laughed at her sitting cross-legged on the bulkhead row. Try that just one
row back, sister.

------
vincnetas
I really liked seats arrangement in Helsinki public buses. Not sure how
popular are they. But basic idea is that in a paired seat you have one seat
shifted a bit to back. Because of that if there are two people sitting they
don't rub their shoulders to one another and it feels much more spacious. Only
picture that i could find :

[https://depressingfinland.tumblr.com/post/59672293951/234937...](https://depressingfinland.tumblr.com/post/59672293951/234937289-bus-
seats-in-finland-for-the)

~~~
0xcafecafe
Is the asocial behavior documented in the blog typical of Finland?

~~~
freehunter
The blog is called "depressing Finland" which is kind of a Finland meme. It's
certainly played up on the Internet but it's got a kernel of truth. I have a
couple of very good friends in Finland and I've visited the country and it's a
lovely land filled with lovely people. But it's true they can be aloof to
other people at first. My Finnish friend joked that Finnish people don't care
about others until you get drunk with them, then you have a lifelong friend.
That's actually true to an extent.

Finns can be very introverted, which leaves some more outgoing people with the
feeling that Finns are anti- (or a-) social and depressed. That's not the
case. The Finnish culture just values introversion, privacy, and polite public
behavior. This contrasts sharply with the European meme of the loud, outgoing,
and rude American, and the two cultures see each other in extremes and play up
the differences for humor on the Internet.

~~~
aidenn0
Germany is that way to a lesser extent. I know my German friends visiting the
US find it very odd that people who do not know each other well (or at all)
will greet each other when passing by. It seems superficial and fake to them.

To a lesser degree, I felt that way after moving to Southern Californa from
the East coast:
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvzm3sZWAAETO_b.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvzm3sZWAAETO_b.jpg:large)

~~~
freehunter
I'm from the Midwest and I find NYC and LA to be incredibly alienating for
that reason. I'm surrounded by people but none of them acknowledge my
existence. If I'm walking around my own downtown almost everyone who passes by
will nod or wave or say "nice day isn't it?" just to be polite.

I held a door open for someone when I was in NYC last time, which turned into
a big mistake. Everyone else hadn't been paying attention and when they saw me
holding open the door they must have assumed I was a doorman and everyone
flooded through the open door not giving me the chance to catch back up to my
group. Meanwhile in the Midwest, if someone is a few steps behind you and you
let the door close, they're going to be complaining about how rude you were
for _hours_.

------
zhte415
To drop some personal anecdote..

By far the best sleep I've had on an aircraft was an Alitalia flight in the
early 2000s, a 747 from Italy to Hong Kong, economy class. The upholstery was
thin worn-down carpet, the seat felt like plywood with metal reinforcements in
important places, hopes of in-flight entertainment were confined to headphones
operated by a wheel-dial fixed the the seat, there was nothing as fancy as a
button. But it was spacious, spacious enough to allow use of its utilitarian
space having a nice sleep.

An unlikely benchmark, but a benchmark for getting it right. A simple seat,
space to adjust legs, and an adjustable headrest. That's all. I am happy with
carpet, plastic/fake leather padding is sticky and therefore uncomfortable, as
well as taking up precious millimeters which add up. Carpet is fine.

~~~
Nitramp
Actual space on a plane is very expensive compared to making the seat look
nicer (while still the same cramped). So it's unlikely you'll get to repeat
that experience much in the future, unless you're willing to pay for business.

------
jedberg
> In fitting with the trend towards more personalized, data-driven flying
> experiences, New Territory is keen to add facial recognition technology to
> the mix too.

Wow, marketing fluff much? They just want to add something to check for closed
eyes. Not exactly facial recognition.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
It’s tough to defend CNN... but it has to recognize faces to do that right? :)

~~~
jedberg
I think people generally consider facial recognition meaning to recognize
_your_ face, not just that one exists.

~~~
kodablah
This is one of those rare cases where it's helpful to conflate the two since,
when considering privacy implications, the tolerance of one begets the other.
In other words, recognition of individual facial features should be treated
with as much caution as individual facial recognition.

------
jon889
It's really easy to claim to make it easier to sleep in economy by adding a
chair from short haul business class..

This doesn't fit in at all with making the seats as light and thin as possible
to save weight and increase available space (for more legroom or more seats)

A much cheaper, smaller and simpler option would just have to have the head
rest paddings that have small foldable wings that exist already on slightly
more expensive airlines or premium economy.

~~~
isoskeles
I hate those headrests. They force my neck forward into an unnatural position
making it impossible to sleep that way. I’d prefer no headrest at all.

If I am serious about sleeping on a flight, I have to rest forward on the food
tray. This is also impossible sometimes, depending on the space and whether
the seat is reclined.

Anyway, that’s just me. I’m not saying an airplane should be tailored to my
personal needs. I just don’t think there’s a solution that satisfies everyone
or aside from bunk beds, and good luck with that.

~~~
fiblye
Exact same situation. I can't imagine how people can find headrests in
airplane comfortable unless they're leaning back at a 180 degree angle and
just using it as a pillow, or they have a completely flat head.

For people with round noggins, it just pushes our heads forward. Even trying
to lean my seat back with the generous 2 degrees of space given, my head still
tilts forward. Then right when I start dozing off, I get caught in a wake-
sleep 60 second loop where I'm just about to fall asleep, but my head drops
(since it's being pushed forward and my muscles spontaneously relax), then my
body instantly wakes up to pull my head back up. This cycle gives me
incredible neck pain.

They're torture devices. Just give me a flat seat with a slight lean back. The
pictures in the article _look good_ , but I know they're going to find some
way to screw it up. They have to in order to push people to business class.

------
tyingq
What I'd rather see is designs that make the middle seat more palatable.

There are more aircraft with 3 seats on each side now.

It's not perfect, but ideas that make the middle seat better via dedicated
armrests, or offsetting it slightly back, would be welcome.

One supplier with some decent ideas: [https://www.airlineseats.biz/for-
passengers](https://www.airlineseats.biz/for-passengers)

~~~
TuringNYC
+1

It baffles me that non-middle seat passengers try to assert rights to middle
seat armrests and consider themselves justified.

~~~
why-oh-why
I wonder if any of you ever tried sitting on the aisle. It’s a hazard there,
constantly being hit by anything and anyone who passes by. No way I’m
“resting” on that armrest and therefore I’ll lean towards the middle seat.

~~~
isoskeles
Do you prefer the middle seat to the aisle?

~~~
why-oh-why
I think so.

Aisle lets you get up anytime you want, but also _forces_ you to get up twice
as much as the middle seat. But mainly in the middle seat you never have to be
afraid of people bumping into you, which affects you for most of the flight.

------
ggm
Looks like a fundamentally acceptable design change, which will probably be
white-anted out of deployment on cost, or fashion grounds.

I think seating in airlines demands regulation. I don't think we will see
change here without it, because unlike Premium Economy and Business, where
pricing differentiation justifies the spend (the increase in revenue outweighs
the engineering costs significantly: Aircraft would be viable long haul solely
based on Business and Premium already) there is no pricepoint increase in
economy the airlines are willing to make, without being obligated to make it.

~~~
qnsi
I dont see the point of regulation. Do you want to force everyone to pay
higher plane tickets, so some people get more comfort?

Some people prefer to pay less and survive in economy class.

~~~
quadrifoliate
The problem is that IMO things are slowly getting to the point where it's a
medical problem, especially for older people. And the median age of people in
the US is slowly ticking upwards. Consider things like Deep-Vein Thrombosis
for longer flights:
[https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/travel.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/dvt/travel.html).

"Some airlines suggest pulling each knee up toward the chest and holding it
there with your hands on your lower leg for 15 seconds, and repeat up to 10
times."

Most modern economy class seats have absolutely no room to do even these
limited sorts of movements. And don't even get me started on how bad they are
with someone with a disability. Plus, as someone else mentioned, some
employers, etc. _make_ you take the lowest cost flight as a matter of policy.

I think in a way this is like healthcare (the analogy is loose, I admit).
Sure, some people, maybe even a majority of people can do fine with the
unregulated version. But if it is actively dangerous to a smaller segment of
the population, regulation will help bring it more in line with normalcy for
that smaller segment.

------
soapboxrocket
Either they hired a very petite woman for the photos are these seats are way
wider than the current standard. But I do have a fun fact as to why airplane
seats are too narrow.

When they first started standardizing the seat width, the measured individuals
hips to determine the seat width. The idea was that: ass goes in seat. The
problem was that our shoulders tend to be wider than our hips. By the time the
issue was discovered it was too late to make the seats wider.

I have no valid reason for why seats are still getting more narrow other than
the airlines are greedy bastards barley making a profit.

~~~
smnrchrds
She is the reporter who wrote this column. She is hired by CNN, not the
manufacturer of the seats.

[https://twitter.com/fl_street?lang=en](https://twitter.com/fl_street?lang=en)

------
wstuartcl
They need to get rid of the recline or have laws governing a sane distance
between seatback and the next seats worst case distance. As someone that is
6'5" I literally have my knees fixed to the seatback in front of me and feet
off the ground in most airlines economy seats -- the person in front of me
choosing to go back even an inch means my kneecaps are bruised.

~~~
mattferderer
I've found most people don't enjoy being knee'd in the back constantly every
time I move. I tend to more more frequently when uncomfortable due to my no
leg space becoming negative leg space.

------
danans
Any improvement to airline seats is welcome, but this won't address the
biggest comfort issue for me which is the prolonged pressure on the posterior
caused hours of sitting. I feel like airplane seats could benefit by using
elements of office chair design.

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
If that's your main issue, you're very lucky... I wish I could worry about my
posterior, but the constant pressure on the knees by the seat in front and the
desperate search for a position where my legs will fit keep all my attention.

Sleeping is a pipe dream, of course. When I see headlines like this I don't
know whether to laugh or cry.

Airlines need a seat pitch regulation.

(and before anyone mentions that I could just pay more... no, I work at the
public sector and our regulations don't let us to pay for any extras in planes
because "austerity" and all that).

~~~
samstave
How tall are you?

~~~
Al-Khwarizmi
197 cm (6' 5"). Very tall, although there are still people who have it
worse...

~~~
nostrebored
Also 1.97m and it's truly miserable flying in most planes. I've come to terms
with the fact that I will not sleep on flights.

------
WalterBright
I've tried leaning my head against the window frame, but was worried that the
vibration would scramble my brains while I slept.

All the seats need is wings for the headrest so I don't wake up as my head
falls the instant I go to sleep.

~~~
GordonS
> I've tried leaning my head against the window frame, but was worried that
> the vibration would scramble my brains while I slept

Hah, yeah, I've tried this too, but the vibrations make my nose and the inside
of my ears tickle like hell!

> All the seats need is wings for the headrest so I don't wake up as my head
> falls the instant I go to sleep

Hmm, so, I've sat in seats that have had small "wings" at the side before, but
the seats were still so upright that my head would still fall - what's needed
is "wings", _and_ a slight recline.

------
greggman2
wish they made double or triple decker capsule hotel style beds for long
flights.

~~~
ObsoleteNerd
I’d love a capsule-hotel-style option. I don’t care how cramped it is. I feel
like you could stack some bunks that take up the same cubic-space-per-seat as
existing seats. I only need enough space to lie sideways with my phone in
front of my face and a USB port and I’d travel a lot lot more.

Context: Physically disabled and have issues sitting on chairs for longer than
1-2hrs before my legs are in excruciating pain, but also, before I had this
issue I would’ve loved a submarine-bunk option.

~~~
fivre
You could, and you'd likely create an evacuation pathway nightmare in the
process.

~~~
d33
Ignorant question, but: do we actually have at least one (preferably more)
documented cases of where the evacuation happened and was successful?

~~~
jcranmer
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549)
?

------
mberning
No way that is an economy cabin. And they chose a very petite model to sit in
the chair. Economy is only going to become more miserable over time as people
become taller and wider and airlines continue their war of attrition for low
fares.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
International long haul economy can be a bit roomier than domestic. Can see
this workin really well for someone like Air New Zealand whose routes are
almost all long hauls.

------
Ericson2314
I always lean forward on the tray table. I find resting my head / getting it
horizontal is far more important than anything for the rest of my body.

Is this just me? I get the sense that very little is optimized for this. The
next person reclining their seat makes it harder to fit my head on the tray
table, for example. Conflicting resting positions!

~~~
Zarath
I do the same thing, but eventually it becomes uncomfortable on my folded arms
and they fall asleep. Or the person in front of me leans back and crushes my
head...

~~~
yibg
What if there was a cushion on the back of the seat in front of you? Something
that you can rest your head on at an angle. I’ve though about this and
although I haven’t tried it I feel like that’ll be more comfortable for me.

------
crispweed
How about something like this:
[https://www.asailorslifeforme.org/educator/primary/PS-
Plan-o...](https://www.asailorslifeforme.org/educator/primary/PS-Plan-of-
UpperDeck.pdf) ?

------
crimsonalucard
The sitting position occupies a cubic volume with dead space below the butt
and above the lap. If you want to put more people in the plane, make them lie
down and place the lie down spaces on top of each other and side by side. I'd
be down to fly in an airplane like that which by logic should have cheaper air
fares because of more people on the plane.

It's the perfect sleeping position. The problem is Would you rather be lying
down all the time or sitting down all the time? Overall I prefer lying down
because I have the option of sleeping and staying awake while lying down;
while when sitting, I have the option of staying awake and a really hard time
getting some shut eye.

~~~
zaroth
FAA regulations require the ability to evacuate the cabin in _90 seconds_.

~~~
jeffwilcox
90 seconds as measured by non-realistic volunteers in Toulouse and/or Everett
who aren't actually afraid for their lives :(

~~~
saagarjha
I'm not sure if you think that people afraid for their lives would be faster
or slower.

~~~
eberkund
They would most definitely be slower because of the panic and people pushing
and shoving each other compared to an orderly and rehearsed exit

~~~
eitland
I learned the other day that to simulate panic at some point they started
giving money to the passengers who got out first. They said nothing about the
amount, but as far as I could understand it actually worked.

Edit: this was in a program about the Manchester plane fire in 1985 where 55
people died. The details are from the part about the investigation after the
fire.

------
rsp1984
On long distance flights I always use the following hack in economy: I take
the armrest separating me from my neighbor and tilt it almost fully up, so it
forms about a 15 deg angle with the seat back. Now it's a headrest! Then I
take the pillow, fold it and stick it in between the armrest and my head so I
can lean comfortably.

Of course this requires kindly asking for permission from the seat neighbor.
But most don't really care about the armrest as it doesn't provide enough
space for two arms anyway.

~~~
mdtusz
On any plane I've been on, the armrest barely reaches my shoulder when in the
up position. I have no idea how you can manage this.

------
luxuryballs
“As long as you can make it cheaper and able to fit more total passengers than
the boring regular seat then we have a deal.” - Mr. Airline

~~~
Animats
That's the stand-up seat.[1]

[1] [https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/standing-up-airplane-
seat...](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/standing-up-airplane-seat-
testing/index.html)

~~~
loeg
I'd go for a bunk-bed cabin myself. I wouldn't mind lying on my back all
flight with limited headroom if I could read a book and my knees weren't being
jammed by the seat in front of me.

~~~
dangus
Yes! I can’t understand why we can’t have this, like a sleeper bus.

If I were to guess it’s probably because of aircraft evacuation and/or safety
standards.

Or maybe it’s just not straightforward to make bunk beds fit with potential
need for more aisles, or dealing with the cylindrical shape of the aircraft.

~~~
loeg
My guess is some combination of tradition / not having enough people able-
bodied to climb into the top bunk / evacuation speed. Pure speculation,
though.

------
khazhoux
These better-seat design exercises have popped in the news for 20 years, at
least. I'm not gonna hold my breath.

~~~
gefh
Exactly. Everyone's taking this article at face value, but it's an empty
design exercise, not linked to any airline, with no cost constraints, that
will never see the light of day.

------
cpcallen
I'd love one of these wingback armchairs to sleep in—but I'd settle for more
widespread use of the circa-2000 British Airways economy class seats with
their three-part headrest, the outermost parts of which would fold down and
forwards to create a very effective side headrest:
[http://benjaminjtravel.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/05/Trip-R...](http://benjaminjtravel.com/wp-
content/uploads/2017/05/Trip-Report-British-Airways-Economy-Class-Boston-to-
London-Heathrow-LHR-7.jpg)

Their newer planes (and those on many airlines) have headrests that fold with
a vertical hinge, but these invariably cause my head to tip forward when I
fall asleep, waking me up again (if the hinge is even stiff enough not to just
fold flat again when I lean against it).

~~~
cmonnow
I have a smaller than average head. The 2 vertical side folds are too wide to
prevent my head from sagging off to left/right, not to mention forward of
course.

Lack of static head position is the biggest hindrance to sleeping seated.
Back-Inclination, Leg-Space, Arm-Rest are all secondary. If you're tired
enough, a head-harness is enough to catch a solid 4-hr nap.

------
fortran77
It also keeps a passenger of size from spilling over into another person's
seat. I think this is an improvement. And even if the passenger of size can't
use the flaps, the passenger next to him can use them as a barricade.

------
andrewfromx
isn't the real issue the space is limited because jet fuel is too expensive?
Both in dollars to get it and cost to planet earth. Seems like the space
available for seats per dollar spent will get much better with EPA or NPA
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21436838](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21436838))
and NPA with the stuff happening at places like
[https://terrapower.com/](https://terrapower.com/) seems very promising.

~~~
wp381640
I once worked with someone who was perviously a consultant to a large airline
and they dropped the size of their inflight magazine ~20 years ago to save
weight and then were amongst the first airlines to drop it all together for
the same reason

They figured out the $ they would save p.a with every change of page length,
paper weight, etc. (it was partially offset by advertisers and onboard sales
but not enough)

I can't recall the exact numbers but they were significant enough to warrant
expensive external suits who eat their lunches at their desks doing the
calculations and going ahead with it

~~~
mcbain
There are listicles with these kinds of stats every now and then (and I’m
usually a sucker for them), like this one:
[https://www.traveller.com.au/airline-weight-reduction-to-
sav...](https://www.traveller.com.au/airline-weight-reduction-to-save-fuel-
the-crazy-ways-airlines-save-weight-on-planes-h14vlh)

Scaling any kind of issue changes things dramatically.

~~~
spyckie2
thanks, appreciated this article more than the parent.

------
pulse7
It would be even better if those "padded wings" would be positioned just in
the head range and not in the elbow area. (In elbow area we are much wider and
those "wings" would limit us.)

------
ian0
Id honestly be happy with a headband attached the headrest that would stop my
head from dropping when I fall asleep.

The cushions on either side only work if the seat is very reclined, else you
just keep slipping forward.

------
mattferderer
I like it but how about some other easy random wins that don't effect required
space but due increase user experience.

A vertical tray that comes out under the arm rest to prevent "man spreading"
of legs & allows both passengers to rest their leg against without awkward leg
touching.

Get rid of the reclining seats. They piss off whoever is behind them. It
screws with their video & trays. I don't even need to mention the poor
person's knees if they're above average height.

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goseeastarwar
Those seats with wings better be vinyl, otherwise there's going to be a lot of
drool that's impossible to clean between flights.

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cryptozeus
I have given up on airlines doing right by the customers, I simply pay more
for premium economy seats now.

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kelnos
This would certainly make things more comfortable for me in general, but I
doubt I'd be able to sleep: the real issue for me is that I just can't sleep
in a seated position unless I'm exceptionally tired (like, have been awake for
more than 24 hours straight tired).

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secfirstmd
As someone who travels a lot long haul for work and always in economy. I
highly recommend the J-Pillow. It solves one of the major problems of sleeping
on flights which is that your chin drops forward and wakes you up. Also that
you often get neck strain.

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chooseaname
Wait, how are they going to get the wings on these economy class seats?

[https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1419537](https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1419537)

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aj7
Those seats are way wider than economy, whether it’s 3-3, 2-3-2, 3-4-3, or
whatever.

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phil9987
Love it. Finally somebody questions the status quo of the economy class. I
wonder how this new design competes in terms of price and weight? In the end I
doubt that airlines are willing to pay more for economy.

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ShakataGaNai
I know it's been bashed to death, but it's funny they'd think the facial
recognition thing would be "OK". Just a few months ago there was a big uproar
( [https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airplane-seatback-
cameras...](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/airplane-seatback-cameras-
letter/index.html) ) when someone finally noticed a bunch of the in-seat
entertainment systems had a camera lens. This wasn't anything new (and they
didn't even work) but the antics even got senators involved.

So why do some IFE have cameras that aren't used? Because the manufacturers
are just slapping android tablets (sans case) into the back of the seats.

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Topgamer7
I would love for some seat innovation in the airline industry, although I
don't think sitting off kilter leaning to the side will feel good in the long
run. I am pretty sitting posture sensitive.

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ChuckMcM
Interesting but they should try them with oversized passengers as well. I’m
guessing that it will increase the level of discomfort for passengers that are
wider than the typical narrow seat even more.

~~~
diego
If you're too big then you just don't fold them forward and it remains a
regular seat. I don't see the loss.

~~~
ChuckMcM
If the person beside a large person deploys the wing, how does that work?

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yalogin
My only worry is airlines will make this an upgrade. Economy "special" or
something like that to charge $100 more per seat. We already have quite a few
sub classes in economy.

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mnw21cam
Some pictures would help. Most airline seats I have used for the last few
years have had wings - how are these different?

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ehnto
The real reason I take the window seat is so that I can rest my head with a
blanket on the plane's interior panels.

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vernie
I wish airlines would just pump knockout gas into the cabin so I can skip the
whole flight experience.

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rock_artist
This pretty much seems like a fragile 'patch' that workaround small issue that

concerns: \- People that having hard time sleeping in couch would most likely
be more sensitive even in 'premium' seats.

\- This still not solve the REAL debate of whether bending your seat should be
event allowed since it reduces the other passengers space unless he's also
going with the domino...

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excalibur
If it weren't for the screens on the back of the seats these photos could be
40 years old.

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chadlavi
as a very broad shouldered individual, I suspect I will viscerally hate those
"wings" on the seat if I ever encounter them. That small woman looks quite
comfortable in the photos, but what about a 2m tall man?

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pdx_flyer
I think the seat is meant to be a Premium Economy seat, not regular coach.

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mapcars
Hahahah, no way, I never thought I would live to this day :D

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MEGMAIL
Sometimes small changes can make a big difference!

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fnord77
the models show a 2x2 seat configuration. Most cattle-class seating is 3x3.
Will this work with 3 seats across?

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SubiculumCode
6'4" and miserable knees.

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meremortals
I'd sit on someone's lap every flight to replace roomier seats with a massive
parachute and airbags

