

Tell People What You Like (Not Just What You Don't) - osuburger
http://www.zachboerger.com/post/30038227593/tell-people-what-you-like-not-just-what-you-dont

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lmm
I think our culture has evolved this as a defence against shills. If positive
low-content comments ("I just had a great experience with x") were an accepted
and normal thing to post, pretty soon we'd fill up with astroturfers. If
you're posting in support of something, you have to go into depth about what
made it good.

I think this is good; HN is optimized for signal/noise even at the cost of
missing out on some content. It would be better to have a culture that frowned
on shallow criticisms (“Why don’t you have X, Y, or Z?” and “Why would you
waste your time on that? 12 things like that already exist!”, as the article
puts it).

Above all HN (to me) is the antitwitter; it's a place for serious, in-depth
discussion. I wonder whether a minimum of 161 characters would lead to better
posts.

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hammock
In-depth useful comments are key. The best analogy is Amazon product reviews-
the high-star rating serves as an initial screener, but the real test comes
with the reviews. Positive but empty reviews are ignored, the useful ones talk
about specifics of the product. Finally a quick glance at the negative reviews
to see if they are about something substantial, or are just about a bad
shipping experience or something.

~~~
SparksZilla
This is a really interesting comparison to draw. What do you think of the
'movement' towards more transparent commenting systems like Disqus?

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casca
People tend to feel more strongly about things they dislike than things they
like. When things work, they tend to drift past without being noticed. Think
about the things that provoke reliable positive comment - they often are in
scenarios where a negative experience is expected.

Consider Apple. Why do people love the brand and products so much and are so
willing to discuss it? Perhaps because their expectation of those fields is so
low and Apple surpasses it. Compare a normal retail stores with an Apple
store. Compare a pre-iPhone with an iPhone. Compare a Mac with a PC. Apple
have consciously taken negative customer experiences and made them positive.
And as such they get extensive positive comment.

~~~
osuburger
That's a really interesting point. So maybe we're likely to comment on
something positive that far exceeds the normal experience, but not say
anything where "good" is already expected. I'd never thought of it like that.

~~~
shanelja
In my job, my boss expects everything to be fantstic, for him 'good' simply
won't do and he tells me so every day, but occasionally you have to push
something which is merely 'good'.

It can be a downer, but when I do 'fantastic' I know I've deserved the praise
which is a massive moral boost.

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yew-right
Well, this article is doing what: telling us what he doesn't like. He doesn't
like too much criticism.

Personally, I like honesty. As in honest opinions.

But... the source matters. To be criticised by a fool means nothing. To be
criticised by someone who has good taste is different. It may be hurt but it's
extremely valuable.

Without criticism, you simply cannot improve. I guess there are some people
who do not want to improve. They just want things to stay as they are.

~~~
osuburger
That was not the point at all. Criticism is totally fine and often valid, and
it certainly aids in improvement. The point I was trying to make is that
people are quick to criticize, but slow to compliment. We share our honest
opinions when they're negative but not nearly as often when we have something
positive to say.

I'm always open to criticism and am willing to improve. Sorry if that wasn't
clear enough in the post.

~~~
yew-right
I shouldn't have said you can't improve without criticism. What I meant to say
is you can't improve without _feedback_. That feedback might be positive
and/or negative.

People are quick to criticise and slow to compliment on HN. But ask yourself
why.

Is it really so surprising?

Here are some of my observations. These could be wrong.

1\. Computers have always been difficult and at times frustrating to use. I
recall a story of someone throwing a PDP-10 out of a window at Berkeley,
immediately after successfully porting some code to it (a wonderful
achievement but incredibly frustrating- this was before C and portability). If
you are spending your time working with computers, you are going to build up
some frustration. It just goes with the territory. That will eventually have
to be vented. (Exhibit A: Slashdot.org)

2\. The web as a medium of business is full of scammers and criminals. It's
also full of garbage "news" and other faux "content" trying to draw traffic,
internet VC looking to take advantage of young programmers and naive
investors, and "companies" formed of morally-challenged people who aim to make
money by selling people's personal information or access to people's own
content as a "business". There is a lot to make people jaded if you follow
business on the web.

3\. Computers do have a positive aspect. When they work well, it's amazing.
Like magic. Computers are addictive. People enjoy them. When you write
programs it can you give you a feeling of great satisfaction. ... However...
the way we use computers, e.g., our personal preferences, often differ widely.
So If you start singing the praises of something computer-related to other
users reading the web, they may not all agree. In fact, the idea of the
"fanboy", e.g. one who loves some absolutely terrible and stupid piece of
software or hardware, can be even more disturbing than people who are
constantly making negative comments about things which might actually not be
all that bad.

4\. HN if the estimates are accurate is _primarily_ an audience of 18-24 males
who are are likely to be social outcasts. Would you really expect them to be
overflowing with positive energy? In my experience, negative comments get
upvoted. The most upvotes I ever received have been from negative comments.
Who would upvote negativity? (I should really not even post negative things. I
know better) So who the heck would upvote negativity? 18-24 males who can't
get laid. Just a guess.

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loganfrederick
This is pure speculation, but I wonder if only providing an upvote button
discourages positive comments, leaving only negative ones left to actually be
posted. The purpose of the upvote is intended to mean "I support this
contribution to the discussion", but is too often simply used as an "agreed"
vote. There have been plenty of other related comment thread discussions along
these lines as well.

~~~
jonathanjaeger
Maybe in part, but I think for the majority of people thinking positively
about a situation results in a nodding of the head and moving on. Most don't
find it interesting or adding to the conversation to just write, "I agree
because of what you said or because of X, Y, and Z."

If you disagree, however, there is an emotional tendency to want to argue or
lash out(especially under the guise of partial or full anonymity). Arguing
makes for a more interesting read or prevents the 'yes' mentality.

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j_baker
"Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting."

\- Emmet Fox

