

Why I hate Flash - muriithi
http://haineault.com/blog/56/

======
hobbs
Why _I_ hate Flash: outside of youtube, 95% of all Flash content is just
advertisement - including flashy corporate home pages. Very little actually
affords any utility to _me_.

Flashblock is by far the most valuable Firefox extension that I use.

~~~
jcl
In that case, you should actually _like_ Flash. Several commenters here say
that standard, open technologies like Javascript should be used instead,
because they can do everything Flash can do. But if that happened, all the
annoying stuff that is currently in Flash would simply be ported to
Javascript. And it is much more inconvenient to block Javascript than it is to
block Flash.

What we have now is an almost ideal situation: Much of the stupidest stuff on
the web is in Flash, little of the important stuff needs Flash, and Flash is
easy to block.

~~~
hobbs
True enough. Though if it weren't for Flashblock, it would be a whole
different situation. (I'm often surprised to find out how much I'm "missing"
when forced to use IE)

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tx
Yea... think of anybody trying to create a new web-enabled hardware. In
addition of getting a browser working right, they would be at Adobe's mercy
for providing a flash plug in for it. Now imagine if Silverlight becomes hot
together with JavaFX. How many private corporate interests will you have to
deal with to support your platform then? Because you'll need A LOT of runtime
support to be a useful web surfing tool. Yet another obstacle towards truly
mobile web.

Flash, Silverlight, and other proprietary "extenders" all need to be replaced
with extended _standard_ CSS/JS/XML solution, supported by all browsers out of
the box.

~~~
tokipin
hey silverlight is actually pretty cool. at least, i don't need a $600 program
to develop for it

~~~
sanswork
You don't need a $600 program to develop flash either. osflash.org has one
alternative ide and there are a few others.

~~~
breck
Out of the dozens of IDE's listed here, what's your recommendation?

~~~
oz
OpenLaszlo can create rich internet applications in its own LZX format, which
can compile down to Flash or DHTML. Cool stuff.

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poppysan
I am so sick of flash haters. Flash, like anything else can be used to create
a horrible site. But it can create some kick-ass sites as well.

I disagree with half of the column.

I use swfadress and index not only my pages in google but my assets. also each
can have a seperate url for bookmarking.

You can copy and past any text on a flash site, if the designer wants you to.
its as simple as pressing a button when designing the site.

If you want to hate flash for a few badly designed sites, answer these
questions:

How many times have you had to hack css or html to work cross browser?

Bad design ---> sparkles following your mouse!!!

i can pick on anything that i disagree with, but flash is popular because it
works, is eye catching and small.

Flash's main problem is being easy enough for a novice to pick up and create a
garbage site.

~~~
aflag
You are sick of flash haters, flash haters are sick of you. And people who
simple don't use or like flash -- like me -- choose to live on the side of the
web where we can read the information we want and move on. We can even use the
web without a full blown gui, and it works just fine.

There's clearly demand for people who use the web for playing games, watching
movies, etc. Anyhow, you have to understand that there's people who's on the
web for the information. That kind of people will be annoyed by poping flash
screens messing up their reading experience.

~~~
Breath
Try delivering this "information" in text:

<http://www.lecoqsportif.com/#/us/all/>

------
marketer
"Last fall, I quoted on a website contract for our city college"

You don't have to read past that first sentence to realize that this is
heavily biased opinion from a person who earns his living doing web design.
Many of the issues are completely independent of whether or not flash is used
-- like improperly configured domains, accessibility, background music, rest
interfaces. With a little creativity you can solve most of the issues on that
site.

~~~
anonym
"You don't have to read past that first sentence to realize that this is
heavily biased opinion from a person who earns his living doing web design."

Absolutely! Really, who could be less qualified to comment on web design?

------
paulgb
I'm not the grammar-nazi type, but I have this problem where when people use
the word "literally" I assume they are not being metaphorical.

"it's literally a scrollbar orgy"

Thanks for that image.

~~~
pmjordan
Give him some credit, English isn't his first language:

<http://haineault.com/about/>

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AndyKelley
One of the comments on that page ("Jeremy") kept going off on how terrible
YouTube is: 'Obviously it was forced on them by the giant failure "YouTube".'
What is he talking about? I thought YouTube was extremely successful, so much
so that Google bought them out?

~~~
asmosoinio
He was being funny by saying A, but actually meaning B, where A = !B.

Sarcasm might be what it is called. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm>

Or maybe you wanted to be funny as well? Oh the joys of textual communication
and vague jokes. :)

------
gibsonf1
The lack of cut and paste annoys me greatly (from the user's perspective when
viewing a webpage)

~~~
Breath
Flash does have 'cut n paste'. Its developer choice to implement it or not.

------
Breath
The article is about why he hate that particular Flash website, not Flash.

Flash is THE best way to deliver heavy weight rich internet applications on
web.

With Javascript, you would:

if(ie 5){ //do stuff.. }else if(ie 6){ //do stuff.. }else if(ie 7){ //do
stuff.. }else if (IE generic fail edition){ //do stuff.. }else if(Opera){ //do
stuff.. }else if(Safari){ //do stuff.. }else { // do stuff }

With Flash you would just "do stuff"..

Now, this doesnt mean Flash is better than Javascript.But when delivering
heavy weight RIAs, its better to stick on to Flash.Why overload client side
with untargeted code?

~~~
axod
You don't do that sort of thing in javascript :) There's a couple of areas
where things are different - event handling for example. Either you use a
library, or you feature sniff. Certainly not browser sniff.

Flash is pretty slow and inaccessible. I'd bet my money on javascript every
time. The only thing missing is video/audio. Which should be there soon afaik.

~~~
poppysan
flash is actually very much like java in the event handling dept. And
javascript is changing to adjust to the superior features that flash has. The
argument about people just use the web for information is rediculous, as the
majority of ppl play online games, share video via youtube, have
myspace/facebook and want VISUAL STIMULATION.

As a programmer, sometimes we have to step our of our comfort zone to see how
the rest of the world uses the web. The average consumer responds well to many
flash sites. This can not be denied from a developer standpoint.

Companies are making millions on those flash ads, and many of us are dying to
get the user base so we can attract those tacky ads. Our stance as developers
that this technology, which is on 90+% of computers is useless, may need some
reevaluation.

------
pxlpshr
Why is this poorly written article getting front page attention? Oh, because
the internet reads headlines... forget the important substance or in this
case, lack there of.

------
astine
Who doesn't?

Seriously, flash is only good for two things:

\- Embedding movies and animations

\- Delivering Internet games

Both of these things can usually be done without flash. Doing anything else
with flash does positive harm to the usability of the site. If all your site
does is provide information, don't use flash. I shouldn't have to have some
proprietary, third-party plugin to read text or view simple images. In the
long run, it will be you who loses out.

~~~
angstrom
_I shouldn't have to have some proprietary, third-party plugin to read text or
view simple images._

Would that make <http://www.scribd.com> the antithesis to your statement? It
solves the problem of viewing documents that would otherwise require a special
plugin or application.

~~~
technoguyrob
No, because he preceded his statement with "If all your site does is provide
information." It is fair to assume if you provide information, you can choose
the format for providing that information. That is, you don't have to provide
PDF's, you can put it straight into the HTML. In fact, that's his entire
point. Whether it's a PDF or a Flash file, that's not necessary. It's just
text, so it should be rawly embedded into the page.

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TrevorJ
I can't read French, it is true and so my ability to evaluate certain aspects
of the site are compromised, but as an ad piece I do find it compelling to be
honest.

------
paul9290
If you are creating a site that has a lot streaming audio or video the
embedded player must be flash, just as youtube does! There is no other way in
this instance! 99% of net users use flash to enjoy audio and video through
their browser.

A entire site in flash... well that does suck!

