
An Independence Day thought experiment - Tomte
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/opinion/fourth-of-july-stephen-fry.html
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smoyer
TLDR; Elected and unelected officials in the U.S. government, including the
president, have forgotten that they're "public servants" and would be well-
served by an icon that offered them frequent reminders that their role is to
do the will of the people.

OPINION: The great people of England voted for Brexit - The U.S. citizens
voted for Trump. Both clearly represent that the populations are looking for a
seachange - I'm not sure that advice from England to the U.S. or vice-versa
will contain the wisdom that both countries need.

~~~
actsasbuffoon
Trump received 3 million fewer votes than his leading opponent. A series of
technicalities elected Trump, not the majority of U.S. voters.

~~~
cryptical
"A series of technicalities" also known as "the rules".

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comstock
TLDR; America should have a monarch, who can do all the entertaining insane
things Trump does without also destroying the country.

Couple of key quotes:

"Looking at 10 Downing Street and the American White House now, I wonder which
nation is constitutionally most in danger of allowing a tyrant to arise."

"My modest proposal on this, America’s great national holiday weekend, is that
you choose an Uncle Sam or Aunt Samantha by lottery (which is all the birth of
a monarch is) and give this person the powers of a constitutional sovereign,
with precedence of state over the elected president. To save face, this person
needn’t be called a monarch — “first American” or “sovereign citizen” will do.
A reality TV competition can be held to finalize all the details. Americans
are awfully good at that sort of thing."

From where I stand, things are also trending in a pretty bad direction in the
U.K. too... not sure the Queen really help much.

~~~
rayiner
If you've ever read U.K. media you'd know that they're far worse than us in
terms of political ridiculousness. Not to mention far ahead of us in creating
an Orwellian surveillance state.

~~~
dfraser992
No, the Tories tend to be assholes, but are smarter and not as insane/blatant
as the GOP. Labour... well, we'll see. Corbyn's overturned everything. The UK
is a smaller country so it can consider things that just would not fly in
America. The Blairites are like covert Republicans who say they're Democrats.

Yeah on the surveillance state, but the saving grace is the British tend to be
a bit more incompetent in a lot of things, based on my American sensibilities.
And they end up wasting money which gets things shut down. Especially
government run things. All the jokes about tea breaks aren't exactly jokes
either.

May has no clue at all about much of anything IT related, so they are going to
have to go house to house to ensure everyone in this country isn't using a
VPN. And the British tend to be obstreperous, so that means EVERY house. The
only real solution is to nationalize all the ISPs and what Tory is going to
vote for that?

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weberc2
It seems like this post is implying that Trump is on his way to becoming a
tyrant, but for all of his faults and bad manners I have a hard time viewing
him as more than a temporary setback or perhaps even a wake-up call for the
establishment. Why do some folks apparently perceive him to be a threat to our
democracy or otherwise speak about him in such dramatic terms?

~~~
jbmorgado
Because he seems to be actually creating an oligarchy in the USA, firing and
hiring people for top administration like he sees fit in order to concentrate
power around him.

~~~
weberc2
This doesn't seem plausible to me; it will take him through his first term to
fill a critical mass of these positions; he'll be in his way out before he
gets there.

~~~
jbmorgado
Let's hope so that he doesn't have time, but I think people are fooling
themselves by thinking he will get voted out of a second mandate. If he lasts
that long without an impeachment, history tells us that it's highly improbable
that he loses the election for the 2nd term.

~~~
weberc2
Even if he did get a second term, I have to wonder how much harm he could do.
I have a hard time believing it's as bad as some people make it out to be. For
all the grief our form of government gets, it is pretty robust against
tyranny.

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larrydag
This person needs a better understanding of the US Constitution. There are
clear checks and balances in place. This is one of the main differences
between parliamentary and the US form of branch government.

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l0b0
Basically: The president clearly doesn't respect the people, so why not create
a powerless figurehead they "have to" respect? Because obviously the UK is the
model democracy everybody looks up to.

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Luc
To those who don't know: this is obviously written in jest. It's a bit of fun
light entertainment, a fantasy.

If a humorous movie was made with this premise, would you be taking it this
seriously?

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carsongross
For a more serious intellectual argument in favor of monarchy over democracy,
see "Democracy, The God That Failed" by libertarian theorist Hans-Hermann
Hoppe.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed)

I am neither a monarchist nor a libertarian, but the book is a good read.

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dankohn1
Here is a more straightforward argument for adopting a monarchy, which is that
it may be helpful to treat the head of state as necessarily embodying dignity,
but the president should be seen as just another politician.

[https://thinkprogress.org/the-case-for-a-
king-717ae1eb35f5](https://thinkprogress.org/the-case-for-a-king-717ae1eb35f5)

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johan_larson
It's a nutty idea. America has no king. America needs no king.

But in fairness the presidency is a powerful position and has grown more so
over time. And there are other ways of doing things. In some republics, the
president is a fairly minor figure, largely ceremonial. Does that work better?

~~~
dfraser992
Perhaps the benefit of the Trump presidency will be the average American wakes
up to how non-important the President is in of itself and that the important
thing is the process of politics, or the unspoken norms that Trump is
demolishing, or ... something more abstract than the position and whoever is
the current inhabitant. That was sort of the point of the American Revolution
and all the ideals America is supposed to embody. [i.e. the progressive
libtard ones, not the regressive pseudo-conservative aka almost fascist ones
Trump is a symbol of]

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dfraser992
As an American who has lived in the UK for 10 years now, I can only say:
bollocks!

The fact that the Royal Family even still exists and still has significant
political power is the foundation of the UK's more rigid social structure /
social hierarchy than in America - figureheads like the Royal Family and the
President are, first and foremost, symbols and from this, society's
psychosocial framework is derived. Perhaps it is only my projections / being
an American, but I get twinges that deep down, the English unconsciously still
believe the Royal Family and the unelected de-facto aristocracy like David
Cameron are inherently -better human beings- than the rest of the populace.
[Downton Abbey was complete nonsense] America is not founded upon such a
notion and the fact that even an idiot like Donald Trump can be president says
something. (Yeah, something in the machinery broke down.... the dust filter?).
But living here has made me appreciate aspects of America I never much was
aware of back home though.

The GOP however seem to want to turn America into something like ... well, god
only knows these days. They certainly believe 90% of Americans exist only for
the benefit of the top 10%. Trump is their version of the Shock Doctrine and
we need to take how Italy finally got rid of Berlusconi into account if we
want to get rid of Trump pronto.

Stephen Fry does not understand America's symbols either. Our "Royal Family"
is the Constitution and I would certainly rather have an inanimate object be
that symbol (of the ideals of the society etc) than a actual human being.
Otherwise the chances of personality cults etc - Chavez, Stalin, Putin... -
increases. And there is a personality cult around the Queen, however benign.
And ... Trump has always tried to create and rely upon a personality cult for
his BS. America is falling for it, it seems.

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manishsharan
You insensitive clod! Today is Canada's birthday.

~~~
ygaf
Happy hat-birthday America!

