
Amazon’s Alexa Has 80k Apps and No Runaway Hit - kristianc
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-11/amazon-s-alexa-has-80-000-apps-and-no-runaway-hit
======
abakker
The problem is that Alexa is just a consumer voice command line. UI
discoverability is impossible, and everything that you can do is just a
utility that does something else. There are no native apps because everything
that it can do is just an IO to something else. If they actually get
conversational, this will change, but until then, it’s just a command line
with no man page.

~~~
portmanteaufu
> The problem is that Alexa is just a consumer voice command line. UI
> discoverability is impossible, and everything that you can do is just a
> utility that does something else.

In a way, I think it's even worse than that. I've used Alexa since the Echo
was a relatively new product. Back then, I experimented with new phrases and
commands often, but was frequently greeted with wrong answers or "Sorry, I
don't know how to help with that." Over time, I stopped trying those commands.
Skip forward to today--the backend has been improving for years, and many of
those commands now work, but it's too late. Their users have already been
taught that they don't, so folks stop trying to use those features. Not only
can you not discover new commands easily, you might mentally blacklist useful
commands permanently.

Perhaps more frustratingly, the "What's New" emails they send out don't help
with this. They never say "Hey, we know you tried to ask your Echo to report
its volume level before and it didn't work, but it does now." They always say
"Ask Alexa to tell you an Arbor Day joke!" -_-

~~~
darksaints
It would be pretty cool if it could update you on things you've asked for in
the past that were not possible then but are now possible.

"Hey, 3 months ago you asked for the forecast according to the ECMWF weather
model, and I couldn't answer you. But now I can, so go ahead and try!".

~~~
slg
I wonder if that is too far on the "creepy scale". Everyone probably knows
that Amazon has a full record of everything they have asked their Alexa, but I
am not sure it is smart to repeatedly remind people of this.

~~~
oarsinsync
Phrasing comes into play here. Instead of:

> "Hey, 3 months ago you asked for the forecast according to the ECMWF weather
> model, and I couldn't answer you. But now I can, so go ahead and try!".

What might work more effectively is

"We've been improving our weather forecasting and you can now get the forecast
in your area according to a range of new models, including the often requested
ECMWF weather model! Give it a try now!"

~~~
mikepurvis
This attempt to obscure the fact that it's actually super-targeted can also
backfire too, though. It wouldn't take too many of them for a savvy user to be
like... now wait a minute.

Thinking back to this classic where Target figures out the trick to not
creeping out someone they suspect may be pregnant is to shuffle the maternity
coupons in with a bunch of other random stuff:
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-
targ...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-
figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did)

~~~
robocat
Relevant quotes:

What Target discovered fairly quickly is that it creeped people out that the
company knew about their pregnancies in advance.

“If we send someone a catalog and say, ‘Congratulations on your first child!’
and they’ve never told us they’re pregnant, that’s going to make some people
uncomfortable,” [snip] So Target got sneakier about sending the coupons. The
company can create personalized booklets; [snip]

“Then we started mixing in all these ads for things we knew pregnant women
would never buy, so the baby ads looked random. We’d put an ad for a lawn
mower next to diapers. We’d put a coupon for wineglasses next to infant
clothes. That way, it looked like all the products were chosen by chance. And
we found out that as long as a pregnant woman thinks she hasn’t been spied on,
she’ll use the coupons. She just assumes that everyone else on her block got
the same mailer for diapers and cribs. As long as we don’t spook her, it
works.”

~~~
noir_lord
> As long as we don't spoil her it works.

Sounds much closer to hunting, literally targeted marketing.

------
StevePerkins
My Echo was an interesting novelty at first. But a couple years in now, it is
essentially (in order of usefulness):

1\. An alarm clock / kitchen timer

2\. A thing that tells me the weather report during morning coffee, so I know
what to wear

3\. A DJ that my kids yell at to play pop music

If it died tomorrow, I'd probably just go back to using my phone for these 3
things rather than buy a new one. I can't imagine getting into it enough to
explore third-party "skills".

~~~
ryanbrunner
Pretty much the same for me, although I'll add (I have Google Homes but pretty
much the same thing):

1\. Metric / imperial conversions, especially in the kitchen - this is one
feature that is miles better than using a phone or computer if my hands are
dirty cooking something and I want to know how many grams 12 ounces is or
something like that.

2\. Intercom between my 2 google homes, one in my kitchen and one in our
converted attic playroom - it's so much nicer to use Google home to call my
kids down for dinner vs. screaming up two flights of stairs.

3\. Making quick phone calls

4\. Finding my phone - I lose my phone constantly, and it's super handy that I
can get my google home to make it ring even if it's on silent.

~~~
analogmemory
Agreed on the kitchen part. Once I moved my google home (mini) into the
kitchen it got more useful.

* Setting multiple alarms (why can't apple do this??)

* Conversions

* Food questions

I think it would be rad if I could feed it a recipe and then have it read me
the ingredients and instructions for each step. Maybe that exists?

~~~
lancesells
> * Setting multiple alarms (why can't apple do this??)

It launched without that ability but an update sometime last year lets you set
multiple alarms.

~~~
analogmemory
Sorry that should have been timers. If I tell Siri to set a timer (while a
timer is running) it still asks if I want to change the timer or leave it
alone.

~~~
lancesells
You can set multiple timers in Siri. At least on a Homepod.

------
gtsteve
I bought an Echo speaker when they first came out. The sound quality is
impressive (to my untrained ear), but the development experience is not.

The first thing I wanted to do was to add a feature so I could add a task to
my to-do list software which is not supported by Alexa. It turns out that you
cannot construct a sentence along the lines of "Tell Asana to add a task:
<task>". You can't actually have a 'slot' which contains a freeform piece of
text, even if it is the last piece of text in the sentence.

The Alexa API differs between regions, so the North America version of the API
supports this but the EU version doesn't. It was removed from the NA version
for a while but placed back after a bit of an uproar.

I think you could develop some more useful stuff using Alexa if only this
feature was consistently available. I cannot think of a good reason why it
isn't.

I now just mainly have it as a Spotify speaker, and occasionally I use it as
an expensive egg timer. I normally have it on mute because I find it activates
and starts recording private conversations. I don't see it getting better.

~~~
k__
_" You can't actually have a 'slot' which contains a freeform piece of text_"

What about AMAZON.SearchQuery?

~~~
nostrebored
This is the correct solution. The Alexa Skills Kit contains the
Amazon.SearchQuery slot which meets your needs, but Lex doesn't. This is one
of the two missing slots from Alexa in Lex. If you read articles regarding Lex
slots you might get inaccurate info as they are slightly differing products.

~~~
gtsteve
Thanks, I just did some searching and found that this was added in February
2018 - I think I gave up on my project in 2017 so it now looks like I could
program something like what I wanted. I still have the source code so that's
nice.

However I'm just thinking of getting rid of my Alexa devices anyway - I was
discussing political events with my partner last night, spotted the Alexa
device light up (I think I said "a letter") and noticed shortly after that I
was moderating my speech and not referencing controversial topics. I later
just set it on mute.

~~~
walterbell
For research: have another device perform "audio fuzzing" of Alexa, trying
random phrases. Use a camera to look for Alexa turning on. Bonus points, check
the list of Alexa recordings (via web interface) to confirm 1:1 relationship
between device activation and recorded file. Publish the inadvertent
"watchlist" of phrases, monitor over time.

------
steeve
I have several, along with Google Home too. They all suffer from the same
issue: it's awkward to use with third party skills. Unless they are the highly
integrated ones (Spotify, Logitech Harmony) in which case it's great.

It's the same for Siri, the API is so restrictive.

The whole "tell XX to YY" isn't convenient.

One workaround on Google Home is to use IFTTT, and in that case you can
customize the whole phrase and response, and then it's pretty nice, even
though the latency is high.

"-Okay Google, open the blinds -Sure thing Commander" never gets old.

~~~
deanclatworthy
Absolutely. Until the voice assistants become a bit more intelligent with the
language used to activate them, it feels so rigid and un-natural communicating
with them.

I don't see a great future for voice assistants in the near future, until we
truly solve the problem of intent (in a natural way) and accordingly can
respond.

~~~
michaelt
I'm not sure if it's a question of intelligence, or a question of business.

I can't imagine Amazon would hand the "Alexa, order more bread" keyword over
to Instacart/Wal-Mart/whoever without a fight.

~~~
cglace
Hopefully google or apple might.

------
hanoz
Despite often seeming like a thin veneer of natural language processing on top
of a search engine, I'm sure most users think of their voice assistants, or
are willing them to be, a general AI agent. They don't want to have to care
what app/skill/web-scrape is involved in enabling a response.

The whole skills ecosystem feels like an awkward stopgap on the path to AI.
The language required to invoke them feels particularly clunky - "Alexa, ask
ThingFinder about a thing" \- and then, is the user supposed to be talking to
ThingFinder now, or Alexa? She still sounds like Alexa, but she doesn't seem
quite herself.

As developer choosing an invocation name is fraught with difficulty. There are
only so many natural sounding names for something which does a particular
thing, without incongruously inserting some invented branding word onto it -
"Alexa open Tidy Tide Tables". If someone's already using the most natural
name you are free to use exactly the same, but then who knows whose skill will
be launched? And you'd better make sure your skill's name doesn't clash with
anything else in the world at large, like the entire history of music for
example, "Alexa play Wicked Game". It's all a bit of a mess.

~~~
sp332
Yeah, that's a good point. People are good at mentally compartmentalizing
behaviors with personalities. If Alexa doesn't allow each agent to have a
personality, people are going to have a hard time keeping the behaviors
straight.

Kinda reminds me of Neuromancer, where a superintelligent AI was broken into
two pieces to avoid detection. One part was good at personality, and the other
part had to mimic people in order to communicate. It was very unnerving for
people to talk to an AI that was copying the personality of someone they knew.

------
clavalle
Alexa is just an input/output device. It is limited, which is OK but that
means there will not be a 'runaway hit'. There's just not enough of a surface
area for something so comprehensive.

It's like saying 'There are 80k mouse enabled apps and no runaway hit'.

What it can do is have an app for nearly anything, though, that makes sense
for the form factor. It's on its way. The next step of its evolution is to
look at what apps work and what conventions can be pulled from those as a
general standard. Users will be much happier when they can nearly instantly
download an Alexa enabled interface for an app and have it work intuitively.
And this is doubly important for Alexa because there isn't deep feedback like
you have with a mouse where you can see the things you aren't doing to gather
hints at what's possible -- you just have to know or, at least know how to
find the answer, like a command line.

Which gives me an idea 'man for Alexa'. At least we can standardize a help
menu.

~~~
Taylor_OD
I don't believe your comparison really works. A mouse is useless on its own.
An Alexa device can operate on its own.

I do agree with your latter sentiment. It does feel like a command line at
times. More so like trying to figure out a text adventure game. Zork would be
very difficult if you didn't know the basic functions/words. That's what Alexa
feels like most of the time for me. I'd love a help menu.

~~~
deadbunny
> An Alexa device can operate on its own.

Only if you conveniently ignore the AWS services it uses.

~~~
Taylor_OD
Pedantic. I conveniently ignored the electricity it uses as well. :/

------
lbacaj
Anecdotally a developer friend of mine strongly suspects, most people, are
like him and not actually using these home speakers very much.

I’ve been working on a an Audio App that reads any articles to you for
iOS/Android and planned to bring it to the Echo and he seems to suggest my
efforts are totally wasted. Although their market reach seems to be massive,
likely related to their cheap price, not surprised by this article that their
actual usage is incredibly low. Most people seem to buy them and then forget
about them.

As a shameless self plug, if you would like to check out my app that reads
articles to you using beautiful sounding AI/ML, find it here:

[https://articulu.com](https://articulu.com)

~~~
sigi45
I'm using the timer, alarm, hue integration for my lights, music and weather.

Those are by far my killer features why i use it and why i like it.

I haven't looked at any amazon skill store as i don't see any reason for it.

~~~
ssnistfajen
Playing songs/podcasts from Spotify on Echo while controlling it from my
phone/computer is my favourite use of the speaker now. Ironically this action
involves no voice commands whatsoever except occasionally telling the speaker
to pause/resume/adjust volume when I'm away from my phone/computer.

------
drsim
Alexa needs a PageRank and an 'I'm feeling lucky' that is successful the
majority of the time.

I would like it to work as a room of human experts works with a moderator.

Alexa, how long will it take me to cycle to Netto?

Alexa sends this parsed query out to all apps it thinks can answer.

They respond with a confidence level and answer / follow up question.

Alexa decides which app to choose (the 'PageRank') based on a number of
factors like has the query been seen before and how did each app perform for
it, the app's answer success rate, has the user been given a response from
this app before etc. etc.

The user should not have to install apps. Alexa should know all of the apps in
the room and what they're good/bad at and select one to respond.

Surely discovery is the wrong way to think about this problem and Alexa needs
to be elevated from a good speech parser.

~~~
cheez
Oh I like this twist on things. The difficulty is how do you prevent your
data/query going to a place you wouldn't want it to go to?

~~~
drsim
Very true, the privacy implications would need to be carefully considered.

------
zwkrt
I was taking with a friend who said ,"people use Alexa like a toaster, we
haven't found what this interface will be really good at"

But what if it /is/ just a toaster? Tech people tend to have high hopes for
technology but technology must serve a purpose and it will go the way of the
dodo if the purpose of not strong or clear. For me, having a voice interface
for music and calls is enough justification for such a device, and I assume
this is true for others as well. It's a classic case of over-engineering and
then shopping around for a use case for the 25-use Swiss army knife that no
one asked for.

~~~
taco_emoji
I don't think it's enough justification--you can get a "dumb" bluetooth- or
wifi-enabled speaker to hook up with the voice-enabled smartphone you already
have in your pocket. The value proposition for an Alexa or Google Home has to
be over and above that functionality.

~~~
oarsinsync
The smart speaker is always fixed in place, always listening, always ready to
play and independent of anything else.

Your phone needs to be in range of the 'dumb' speaker, needs to be paired to
it / connected to the same wireless network, can't be used for any other audio
functions, and probably can't be in your pocket if you want it to be listening
for voice commands. It now also can't be trained to your voice specifically if
you have others in your home who want to use it, which makes it ripe for abuse
whenever you leave the home.

------
agrippanux
I've written 15-20 Alexa apps, some public, most for running parts of my life
/ house.

A big part of the problem for a long time with developing Alexa skills is that
if you needed to know where the user was, having them enable location
permissions was insane. It required the user to have the Alexa app installed
(which almost no one does), then navigate 3-4 fairly technical looking screens
and finally flip a switch.

I recently wrote a demo app for a friend's company that needed to know where
the user was, and I jumped through a bunch of hoops for an otherwise simple
task to avoid the app-permissions-dance. The app I wrote was demoed to the
Alexa team by my friend (his company was doing a deal for the company's data
to be supplied to Amazon), and the feedback he got from the Alexa execs was
they know the location permissions process was a big issue.

I _think_ it's gotten better recently with the redesign of the Alexa app, but
I haven't checked it out yet - I don't have any desire to release a public
Alexa app. I just to keep my stuff in developer mode and customized to my
needs.

~~~
xauronx
The thing I’m missing is location within the house. If I’m in the bedroom I
should be able to tell my bedroom Alexa “turn on the lights”, and the same for
the kitchen Alexa. Having to repeat the same incantation over and over is
frustrating.

------
king_magic
Alexa is a glorified lighting management system for me. Given it’s current
capabilities, that’s all it’s going to be for the foreseeable future. Oh, I’ll
ask it the weather sometimes, but come on - what can Alexa really do that’s
all that compelling, that already isn’t a capability of Siri/Google?

~~~
aqzman
I don't have an Alexa myself, I'm a Google Home user. One thing that's always
impressed me is the ability of Alexa to order things from Amazon just by
issuing voice commands. Although, I'm sure that comes with its own host of
problems, especially if you're not just ordering a generic product.

~~~
sykic
You can order things from Amazon using Alexa but you can’t delete items from
your cart using Alexa. For me this makes it useless. Not being able to delete
items makes it user unfriendly. Unless Amazon changes this I’m not going to
use Alexa.

~~~
yourapostasy
Nor add to wish lists, or move to saved items, or move from saved items to
cart, etc. The UI interaction model is in early days for sure.

------
Balgair
The Alexa's timeline is likely much longer and deeper than a lot of the
commentators here are aware of. Specifically, the lives of disabled people
have been greatly enhanced with the Echo-dot specifically. The vision
impaired/blind community has been very receptive to voice command tech [0][1].
Though these devices are not the commercial hit that many expect them to be,
any nod towards the disabled community is greatly appreciated.

Personally, I think that the challenges that disabled people face are great
for all people. Thinking through all the permutations that real people with
disabilities face opens up tech to new ways of interaction and design. The
canonical example is the little ramp on the street corner, where the side walk
and street interface. It was designed for wheelchairs originally, but the
elderly, bicyclists, delivery men with trolleys, and all manner of people use
them as an improvement in their lives.

If Amazon focused on the disabled and their use cases for the Echo-dot, I
think that they would find many other applications that enhance all of our
lives. It may not be an 'essential' thing for the fully-abled, at least not
consciously, but the enhancements are enjoyed by all and well worth the costs.
Perhaps tech that focuses on the hearing impaired (the number one disability
in the world), or the voice impaired, or amputees, may help all of us lead
richer and fuller lives.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDcvqfwOxOE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDcvqfwOxOE)

[1] [https://www.pcmag.com/news/358338/why-amazons-alexa-is-
life-...](https://www.pcmag.com/news/358338/why-amazons-alexa-is-life-
changing-for-the-blind)

~~~
giggles_giggles
But what about the privacy concerns of this technology, especially from
Amazon? My fiance needs voice-to-text software for accessibility reasons --
does that mean that in order to get her the best accessibility software, we
have to sacrifice our privacy by placing Amazon's always-listening microphones
around the house? I know she won't let me do that; even if I'm willing to
compromise on my principles for her sake, she won't compromise hers.

------
casper345
When I turn down the Alexa because of music but then I ask Alexa what is the
weather, it is the same volume as down and I cant hear it. Then I have to say
increase volume and then ask Alexa again.

This is small but I think defines the missing design principle of Alexa. Yes I
want the music to be low when Im doing active 1, but the introduction of new
action of knowing the weather I need to hear it. These are the little "smart"
features that are needed for a product that Amazon is striving for needs.

Edit: I actually say Echo because I think we should stop personifying
technology.

~~~
fallous
How is the device or software supposed to deduce your wants without your
expressing them? How does it know what you can and cannot hear, and that you
chose to turn down the music (rather than explicitly turn it off) because it
was distracting to some other activity rather than because that was the
optimal setting for hearing the music while not waking a sleeping baby in your
arms? And when it decides to shout the weather rather than voice it at the
same level of the music which results in waking the baby, how "smart" is that?

------
wtmt
* Setting a timer or an alarm

* Asking for the weather

* Play some (desired) music

Are there other things that these devices ("smart speakers") are really useful
for?

A voice activated browser or computer, on the other hand, is extremely useful
for those who don't know to type or to use a browser (or a computer). It could
be people who are not privileged enough to learn or people who find these very
difficult to learn or even small kids. These systems allow the user to
accomplish what they want (like searching or opening a website or a game, for
example).

~~~
nothis
I'm very skeptical about this as well but an argument I saw on here that I
found kinda convincing was a comparison to the usual job of a "secretary".
Most interactions are verbal and there's a wide variety of tasks that can be
solved that way. The real problem is trust in an automated system handling
those correctly, which is solvable.

Think, for example, sorting your email inbox by "importance", not based on
some flags or fixed heuristics but an actual, intelligent scan of the
contents. Think of having reasonable phone conversations that result in
scheduling appointments and answering concrete questions.

------
pwthornton
A lot of people are mentioning discoverability as an issue. That is a core
issue. Same with understanding (the idea of once you discover something
exists, how easy is it to understand how to fully use it?). Beyond that, we
have issues with memorability. It's hard to memorize how to properly even use
these voice apps once you learn for the first time.

Here is a full rubric for whether or not a product is well designed:
[https://uxdesign.cc/the-design-critique-rubric-how-to-
determ...](https://uxdesign.cc/the-design-critique-rubric-how-to-determine-if-
something-is-well-designed-9421db59f982)

The hardest part might be that most apps for Alexa aren't privledged. You
can't just ask Alexa to do the new skill. You have to first open the skill and
then ask that skill to do something. "Alexa open the Food Planner app." This
hitch in the process makes memorability very poor.

I am an advanced Alexa user, and I almost never use any skills. They just
aren't integrated very well. The one I do use is Sonos (and Spotify to power
it), which is given priveldged access and allows me to attach an Echo Dot and
Sonos speakers to the same room in my house, so that when I say, "Alexa, play
The Beatles," Alexa plays the Beatles in the room it hears me in on my Sonos
speakers with music from Spotify.

When you use a combo like this, it feels pretty magical, but most of Alexa
can't operate like this, so it feels really stitled, and the user experience
is quite poor.

------
gdne
The problem is the interface. Voice commands and their responses are linear,
one dimensional. It’s difficult to represent complex interaction within that
scope. Think of all the investment that has gone into telephone based
automated customer support. The best interface conceived so far is the dreaded
phone tree. That’s essentially the same interface smart speakers are exposing.

The opportunity is to figure out how to better utilize the voice based medium.
No one has done it yet. When they do, it will also likely improve the
experience around screen readers and accessibility.

~~~
jessriedel
The medium of voice is very rich and capable when talking to a human, so this
is something limited by the intelligence of the system you're interacting
with.

~~~
taeric
Is it? I mean, some folks do great talking. Lots of them. Most are in
narrative communication. If you get much beyond that, you jump to physical
interesting quickly. Even telling is benefited with gestures. Consider how
vague most spoken directions are. When you can augment with pointing, things
are easier.

------
i_am_nomad
Maybe the problem is with the entire concept of distinct, discrete apps. Voice
as an “interface” is based around conversation, not functional blocks and
clickable items. A truly enjoyable and useful Alexa would have a conversation
with you - even if a practical and transactional one - and the various
functions and “apps” would be woven seamlessly into that, just as a human
assistant might learn a new skill and work it helpfully into the conversation.

------
ravenstine
A lot of people don't even realize the Alexa mobile app _even exists_ ,
despite the fact they must have installed it at one point in order to set up
their Echo device. Hence, discoverability is pretty low. I don't know why
Amazon still hasn't attempted to address this issue. If all they want is for
people to buy shit from Amazon through it, why bother with all these custom
"skills"?

Generally, however, I think we've overestimated the utility of a voice command
line with no actual intelligence behind it. Unless you are using Alexa to
control actual devices like lights or a Roobma vacuum, most of the apps for it
are either useless or better suited for a visual interface.

~~~
argd678
I think it could be incredibly useful if it wasn’t like talking to someone who
is hard of hearing, comically misinterprets similarly sounding words and can’t
understand basic logic in sentences (what’s the weather _and_ traffic, then
find my phone and turn off the lights).

I’d like to ask it the meaning of Latin phrases or other words, but it just
hears the words used 99% of the time despite being clearly pronounced
differently.

Ask it what bus and at which time I should leave to go somewhere. It doesn’t
have any transportation info and can’t do basic logic.

Duolingo would be a great integration for conversations while learning another
language, but it can bearly understand English.

------
mikob
I think voice is underutilized as a 3rd, powerful complimentary interface;
mouse and keyboard being the first and second. A smart speaker doesn't enable
me to be more productive on the tool I use most, my computer.

I'm building something that I think is much more powerful than smart speakers
for the following reasons.

1\. It's software and lives on the hardware that you already have... your
computer. It's not a standalone hardware device silo'd from the existing
tooling you use daily.

2\. It provides visual feedback (live transcription, with colors indicating
what's understood), because it can. Smart speakers can't.

3\. It's a browser extension, so it easily integrates with all the webapps
that you use daily: gmail, google docs, hacker news... any webapp you want it
to.

4\. Plugins are intuitive to develop and open-source so anyone can build off
and improve them
([https://github.com/lipsurf/plugins](https://github.com/lipsurf/plugins))

It's a work in progress, but in case anyone is interested:
[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lipsurf-voice-
cont...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/lipsurf-voice-control-
for/lnnmjmalakahagblkkcnjkoaihlfglon?hl=en)

------
max76
I've spent a lot of time thinking about monetization on voice-assist apps.
This is a challenging problem, and I suspect it's holding AAA quality 3rd
party support for the platforms behind. There is no stand alone (from a
mobileapp/webapp) voice-assist app that has brought in significant revenue.
I'm going to break down some of the most common attempts at revenue and
describe their pitfalls.

* Sell Audio (Spotify, Audible, MP3 style): If the goal is to get into this business than you'll have much better reach if you sell on smartphones. The voice-assist app will be supplementary at best.

* Sell products (Amazon/Ebay style): People aren't generally comfortable buying products with voice-assist. You'll have to compete directly with Amazon.

* Market products (In-line advertising style): You'll have to generate a lot of original content to plug sponsored products. The original content will have to be very compelling. It's probably more appealing to host the original content somewhere else primarily.

* Sell audio advertisement: What make the voice-assist platform compelling for content consumption? How can you create a very engaging voice-assist app? Will people tolerate audio advertisements? They tend to consume more time and be less interesting than visual ads.

------
apricot13
I find it quicker to enter commands on my phone for most things. One skill I
thought would be really useful was "Alexa, hows my commute?" but without a way
to go in and 'star' specific trains it would tell me about trains leaving in
the next few minutes which isn't helpful!

I also cant often remember what I'm supposed to say and I sometimes forget my
words as if I've been put on the spot somehow. Overall its not a pleasant user
experience.

------
vertis
Disclaimer: I haven't played with this since 2016, so may be out of date.

Having played with the Alexa and Google home. My take on why there are no hits
is that it's very clunky to invoke apps, especially for one-off queries.

"Hey, Alexa/Google, Ask <keyword> to do <blah>" or some variation on that.
Starting an app and then interacting with it works fine for some use cases but
not all.

It really needs to be a flow of install app for given type of task, say
searching for a hotel, and then like Android, there are defaults. So I say
"hey alexa, find me a hotel room in blah" and it just knows to hand off to
whatever my favourite is.

So long as all the core easy commands are only accessible to Google/Amazon,
this is going to continue to be a problem.

~~~
brentm
And it hasn't really changed since 2016 so that is still mostly spot on.

I think the real problem though is that people aren't good at remembering
voice commands, either how to invoke the command or that the command even
exists. Without visual cues it's easy to forget everything.

You're not going to have a runaway hit when it's predicated on everyone
remembering that special thing to say. It's like trying to have a runaway hit
that had to be based on a keyboard shortcut.

All of those services are great for the basics, e.g. How's the weather / set a
timer / remind me in N minutes / order toilet paper ... Everything else is a
bit tougher in my opinion.

------
jonplackett
The problem is that the trigger for 3rd party skills sucks.

Saying "Alexa, ask [Whatever skill name] to do something" is really unnatural
and ruins the whole user experience.

They need sort out the grammar to make it actually feel conversational.

~~~
ajford
Yep. It's a pain to have to say "Alexa, ask Chevrolet to start my car". Why
can't I just say "Alexa, start my car". Clearly it's the only car related
skill...

------
grkvlt
The problem seems to be there is no barrier to entry. Say what you like about
Apple's app store, at least they have standards that are enforced, and to a
certain extent Google as well. Windows, and the Microsoft app store, on the
other hand, suffers the same problem of quality control and lack of curation
as Alexa skills. There are _some_ gems, and Amazon have put effort into making
Alexa and the Echo devices useful out of the box with their default
skills/commands. I've also never had issues with the smart home skills for
various devices I have around the house. However, it's a telling statistic
that there are over 50 'fart' skills, [0] half of which are rated at three
stars or above.

And of course, although stricter curation and quality control would fix this,
it would cut the number of skills down hugely, maybe even to 1% of the current
size, so the app store looks tiny and people don't bother with the platform.
See also Metcalfe's law [1] and network effects...

0\.
[https://www.amazon.com/s?k=alexa+skill+fart&crid=2KFJ9DO3N51...](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=alexa+skill+fart&crid=2KFJ9DO3N51JM&sprefix=fart+alexa+%2Caps%2C207&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_11)

1\.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law)

~~~
xauronx
Amazon constantly runs “hackathons” with thousands of dollars of prizes to the
winners and free echos just for playing. When I did it there were probably a
hundred projects that were along the lines of “hi Alexa my name is John” “hi
John I like you” (or similar effort). And all of them got into the store and
all of them got free echos.

------
darrenf
I couldn't name a "runaway hit/killer app", but my gf and I get plenty of use
from our Echo(s). Nothing we couldn't or didn't do prior to getting them, but
we genuinely find the voice interface often wins out over reaching for our
phones. We use it:

• as an alarm clock

• as a radio in the morning, podcast/audiobook player in the evening

• arithmetic - e.g. when planning trips we might ask "Alexa, what's 100
Malyasian Ringgit it pounds sterling?", more conveniently than flipping to
xe.com or a phone app and an answer we both hear. When cooking we might ask
for weight conversions, during DIY we might ask for cm to inches, etc

• to control Hue lighting in two rooms

• to control our TV/amp/satellite ("Alexa, pause|mute the TV/set TV to channel
503/etc"). I used to love my Harmony universal remote but found it pretty
cumbersome to manage, and my gf could _never_ get the hang of it like she can
"Alexa, turn on/off Sky"

• to play music when I'm wfh

Rather than a hit skill/application, I'd say voice is a superior interface
when doing other, dextrous stuff - getting dressed, using the hair dryer,
feeding the cat, cooking, washing up, gardening, DIY, etc. Asking for the
lights to turn on (the switches are not near the front door) when arriving
home in the dark, saying "Alexa, goodnight" rather than turning off 4 lights
and 3 devices, etc.

The only thing I dislike about it is how it fires up I'm watching WWE and the
commentators use Alexa Bliss's name.

------
jv0010
I think the whole voice activation hype inflated itself where people are
naturally wanting to see the next big thing and of course people used this as
an example - the title says it all.

Furthermore we need to look at what makes voice less restrictive and that’s
making it instant. They are still reliant on it being cloud / web based which
creates a lag and makes it awkward and nothing like ‘talking to something or
someone ‘

------
sherlock_h
It does. Skyrim for Alexa.
[https://youtu.be/BQl3T0uD5Aw](https://youtu.be/BQl3T0uD5Aw)

------
giarc
I followed and even used the tool StoryLine (which is now the enterprise tool
[https://www.invocable.com/](https://www.invocable.com/)). They had a very
active Facebook group that I watched for awhile. The problem I found was that
the tool made it too easy to build apps for Alexa. People would put out really
junky apps that were the equivalent of fart apps long ago. Now some may argue
that all app platforms need to go through this stage but I'd argue Alexa is
different. The iPhone, pre app store days, provided other utility that was the
driving force behind buying the phone. Alexa is seemingly reliant on 3rd party
apps (with a few very minor exceptions ex. timers, weather etc) and therefore
if there is no "killer app" what is the motivation to buy one?

------
eric_b
"Alexa, set timer for 14 minutes." Great for keeping my iPhone clean while I'm
cooking. Otherwise I'd have to try and convince Siri to set a timer...

(But yeah, i agree - definitely nothing very innovative about it. I don't
really think voice control is ever going to be the next big thing)

------
jsgo
This is looking at Alexa, most likely in smart speaker or some variant form,
as the endgame which I don't think it is.

My guess is that it and its competition is more or less a MVP to use audio for
input and output and to understand how users interact with this "new" form of
input. In a similar way to how Google Search and the various add ins they
implemented for it along the way informs Google Assistant, so too I think
these are stepping stones for something else.

So I don't think the expectation is to have a runaway hit app, but rather to
have a product that users will actively engage with. And considering they're
making huge pushes into smart home product integration with Alexa, I really
don't see how any of it could be viewed as cautionary... from Amazon's
viewpoint anyway.

------
ssnistfajen
For nearly two years since me and my family owned Amazon Echo speakers, the
Android app was practically just a browser wrapper that frequently loaded
slowly or wouldn't load at all (this issue is now mostly addressed wtih a
redesigned native-ish Android app but I'm afraid it may be too late). Looking
for new apps was an excruciating experience and navigating menus inside the
app was bad. I gave up soon after and have since only used the app to
reconfigure network settings for the speaker.

I only use the speaker for casting music/podcasts, listening to news
briefings, and timer/alarm/weather queries. Amazon Echo and Google Home do
these basic functions well but I'd imagine they weren't the only actions these
companies wanted us as consumers to do.

------
huffmsa
It's a utility device, not an entertainment device.

A good toolbox is filled with balanced tools. That there isn't some hyper-
addictive time-suck application isn't a bad thing.

However, if it's a case of no one actually using the device, then there might
be cause for concern.

------
snowwolf
The most frequent use cases for us in order of use-fullness:

1\. Spotify

2\. TV control (with Harmony) - great for the kids so they don't break the
remotes

3\. Home monitoring when we are away (drop in on the echo spot).

But for me home security seems to be an unexplored opportunity for Amazon (and
Google). Those microphones are very sensitive - and if paired with motion
sense on other devices (a Nest or something) start to give you powerful
intrusion detection tools and alerting. How hard would it be for them to
recognise the sound of breaking glass or the presence of someone in the room
at a time they shouldn't be there?

Obviously solving the pet issue is a challenge, but I think it's an
interesting use case to explore.

------
jxdxbx
Voice is mostly inconvenient and slow unless you have certain disabilities, at
times when your hands are otherwise occupied (driving, doing the dishes, maybe
when out-and-about via Siri or Google Assistant) and for the basic in-home
stuff that people have already discovered (music, home automation, news,
weather, timers, random fact from wikipedia).

At this stage I'd be very surprised if there was some new amazing use case.
There are always going to be niche uses that some people really like. I create
notes in Drafts on iOS via Siri all the time, for instance.

------
chiefalchemist
> "The advent of the smartphone triggered an app gold rush. So far that hasn’t
> happened with Alexa."

While gold rush is an accurate analogy, I'm not so sure that's a positive. I
remember a couple+ years ago the NYT doing an article / series on (native) app
developers and how - contrary to the hype - there were significantly more
"losers" than winners.

So has Alexa made it worse? Now there are no winners at all? (Editorial: Well,
sans Amazon and its shareholder.)

------
ppierald
We use it to "set a timer for 10 minutes" when cooking something and "what's
the weather for tomorrow" to know whether to bring a coat or not.

~~~
908087
Either of which could be done just as quickly by setting a timer on your
oven/microwave or pulling out your phone.

~~~
CharlesW
Using Alexa for tasks like this is a qualitatively different experience.
Hands-free/voice control can be very useful in that your hands can be busy,
and you don't need to find or walk to and manipulate a device or remote.

~~~
908087
If you're cooking, the timer on your oven should literally be right in front
of your face.

Every use case I hear parroted to justify the installation of audio
surveillance devices in our homes sounds like a solution desperately in search
of a problem. What do you plan to do with the milliseconds of time you may
have saved?

------
rafiki6
I disagree...the killer app is a smart speaker (i.e. Amazon Music + voice
control). That in an of itself is pretty useful, especially when you can get a
reasonably good one for under a hundred bucks now.

Outside of that, Alexa isn't the platform the industry thinks it is but rather
the equivalent of the touch screen on a smart phone. It's another form of
input.

There needs to be much better and more seamless integration with 3rd party
apps for it to really be useful.

~~~
phil_folrida
You are right, I would say (Music + Voice Control) as you can configure other
services (Spotify for instance), there are a lot of negative comments here, I
wonder if it is not due to the population of Commenters on Hackernews that
would tend to be younger.

If you have a child it is nearly a nanny that helps your child doing his/her
homework, plus you can connect several Alexa (from friends) and interact with
them, if you have also several Alexa you can communicate in different rooms
(speaks/broadcast)

------
hathawsh
It may not be a runaway hit, but if you have kids and an Echo device, you
should ask Alexa to "Open the Magic Door". It's essentially a text adventure
with fun sound effects and good storytelling.

I can imagine a future where Magic Door or something like it becomes a big
hit. BTW, there's a web site for the game:
[https://www.themagicdoor.org/](https://www.themagicdoor.org/)

------
walterbell
Alexa is useful to visually impaired and people and seniors:

    
    
      - landline dial by name
      - radio station by name
      - TV channel by name
      - play/resume audiobook by name
      - microwave for duration 
      - device power on/off 
      - time, weather, etc
    

It takes some setup to get all devices integrated, but once it all works, it's
borderline magic to a non-technical user.

------
dalbasal
I think we still don't have a good model for how voice UI needs to work. The
equivalent of GUI for mouse-and-keyboard machines or tap-and-swipe interfaces
for mobile.

If we did have a UI model, I imagine we'd be controlling car stereos and
driver-mode mobile phones with voice already.

I wonder if any of these 80k apps have the "magic sauce" but just haven't
applied it to the right problem.

~~~
camtarn
Controlling a mobile phone while driving while using your voice is definitely
a thing.

And I suspect if you have your phone hooked up to your car stereo, or
integrated using Google or Apple's in-car docks, then using your voice to play
music is also possible.

I think your point about not having a good model is correct, though, for
anything other than basic uses (phoning, messaging, playing music, navigation,
weather, etc)

------
elif
I think the proper solution is to go old-school.

That is, provide a traditional desktop PC experience that is augmented and
improved by Alexa. It should always be more productive to ask an AI than to
Google, if this is to have a chance of success.

The problem was jumping immediately to a new modality instead of bridging
toward it from the present.

Android assistant has the right idea.

------
pnw_hazor
I bought an echo on an Amazon sale to explore making "skills" for it.

But (at least then) there was no real way to monetize anything using it.
Making an interesting skill that people use will just cost you money.

BigCos or VCCos can use skills for generating good will I guess. But
independent developers, not so much.

------
melling
Linking my Apple Music to Alexa was huge for me. It’s nice to be able to play
my playlists or pick an album.

~~~
barranger
Shame that we can't do the same in Canada

------
theaccordance
While I feel Alexa has a lot of potential from the couple POC apps I've
developed, the device class itself simply isn't where I need it to be to fully
capitalize on it yet.

------
ram_rar
As a techie, I have barely used it for weather , NPR, WSJ thats about it. May
timer sometimes. But thats about it. I guess, dialogue as an interface is a
little ahead of its time.

------
mark_element
If you have an Alexa you really need to try playing Jeopardy on it. The
Jeopardy Alexa skill and Akinator skill are fairly quick casual games that are
very worthwhile.

------
irrational
I don't know anyone that has one of these assistants in their home. If you
have one, do you like it and why? What are the main benefits to having one?

------
spectrum1234
Alexa was pretty mediocre. I use my Google Home to play Netflix on my tv
including rewind, play music, turn off my tv, and pre heat my Tesla.

------
bemmu
How is the discovery of Alexa apps? Other platforms often had hits because
they had some viral component that helped the apps spread.

~~~
mcny
Skills targeted at children are the worst. I am not a child! Why should I have
to jump through hoops because other people have children?

------
CWuestefeld
_Amazon’s Alexa Has 80k Apps..._

Perhaps, but by eyeball, no less than 95% of those are stupid useless trivia
games.

------
b_tterc_p
“Computer Play ____” from Spotify is great. Everything else feels like tedious
novelty.

------
_Codemonkeyism
Today we use several echos only as a time/voice activated watch/spotify. They
well be thrown own if we move and replaced with non-cloud wlan speakers.

------
scarejunba
The runaway hit is probably Amazon buying. Miss that so much on my Google
Home.

