

WP7 will render microSD cards useless on other devices - Retric
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microSD-ATT-Windows-Phone-7-Focus-WP7-certified,news-8819.html#comments

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Legion
Link that _doesn't_ skip the article and anchor down to the comments:

[http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microSD-ATT-Windows-
Phone-7-Focu...](http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microSD-ATT-Windows-
Phone-7-Focus-WP7-certified,news-8819.html)

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runjake
This is rather embarrassing for Microsoft. They rushed the initial release.
Now, they need to really accelerate WP7 development and get these warts fixed,
and turn the existing consumer beta testers into actual end users.

That said, even with its warts, WP7 is surprisingly elegant. I've spent quite
a bit of time with various WP7 devices and I'm very impressed: 1) It's a good
UI experience, and 2) What?! Microsoft designed this?!

~~~
contextfree
How is it embarrassing? WP7 was never claimed to support removable SD card
storage. And it doesn't.

~~~
rbanffy
It's embarrassing because each and every smartphone on the market that has an
accessible SD card slot can deal with removable and expandable storage without
requiring special, non-existent, "WP7-compatible" cards and without destroying
incompatible cards users insert.

~~~
Splines
WP7 isn't destroying the cards. It's locking them to the handset.

WP7 doesn't use the card in the SD slot like your computer would. It's more
synonymous with adding another disc to your RAID array.

More info: <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831>

Microsoft/AT&T have done a poor job of messaging this to the users. The fact
that AT&T advertised these phones as having "expandable memory" doesn't help
any.

~~~
wvenable
How does an SD card get locked to a handset? That doesn't seem like
functionality that exists in SD cards.

~~~
Splines
It's part of the SD specification. See section 4.3.7.1:
[http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdcard/pls/Simplified_...](http://www.sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdcard/pls/Simplified_Physical_Layer_Spec.pdf)

There are WP7 devs that are poking at this problem as well: <http://forum.xda-
developers.com/showthread.php?p=9247202>

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Tomek_
"It's not a bug, it's a feature". SD slot is to be "hidden" underneath the
battery cover and it's not actually intended to be used by end-users, most of
them nor will know about the existence of it, nor will care. It was announced
a while ago (in a specs for WM7 phones I think). For more tech-savvy people it
is indeed strange that there is an SD card there that you can't use as you are
used to, but that's a minority, and when one actually think about it a little
it comes out as not being that big issue: "MS decided to use SD cards for
internal data storage, OK, fine".

More info: <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831>

~~~
adolph
Are they covered up by warrantee stickers, etc? If not, then putting them
under the battery is a signal to consumers to not remove/exchange when the
device is on, like a SIM card. Non-technical people seem pretty adept at
changing SIM cards, why would they think memory is any different?

[Yes, yes, removing the SIM while in operation won't hose the typical phone's
OS, yada-yada-yada.]

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smackfu
Isn't the card on those phones behind the battery, so you are expected to just
buy it once and leave it there forever as added storage?

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contextfree
You as a customer are not expected to replace the card at all. It's intended
for the manufacturer.

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fragmede
In at least one case, you can't replace the card without voiding the warranty.

[http://www.gadgetvenue.com/dell-venue-pro-wp7-microsd-
card-s...](http://www.gadgetvenue.com/dell-venue-pro-wp7-microsd-card-slot-
covered-warranty-sticker-11102024/)

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kogir
As an application developer, I applaud effective rights management. The OEMs
should not have exposed the slot, and were cautioned against doing so.

~~~
rbanffy
As an end-user, I will remember being treated as a criminal.

~~~
kogir
Honestly, in most of the WP7 phones the SD card isn't accessible, so you'd
never know. Does the locked hard drive on your xbox make you feel like a
criminal?

I have mixed feelings about DRM. As a developer I like the protections it
offers, but as a user I try to avoid it when I can. I'll freely admit it's not
a consistent stance. Color me hypocritical.

~~~
rbanffy
> Does the locked hard drive on your xbox make you feel like a criminal?

I don't own an Xbox. And it's different - I don't create content with a game
console. I don't even read e-mail on one. I most certainly don't write on one.

A phone is a different beast, much closer to the "general-purposeness" of a
computer. On my phone, I browse the web, write e-mail, take pictures and
transfer them to various different services. I keep music on it and subscribe
and listen to podcasts the phone downloads directly.

It bothers me to see such a device locked down with DRM.

I too write software for a living, but I don't sell software for phones. If I
had to, I would probably aim for a low price and treat pirates as a form of
promotion.

~~~
kogir
I wasn't speaking literally about the XBox.

Other approaches would limit the utility of the SD card (in the phone) and
needlessly expose to users the difference between "flash" and "SD" storage.
This is awkward and counterintuitive for users, who will wonder why they can't
install more than x GB of apps on their phone sold with x + y GB of storage
(where x is flash and y is SD). Such is the current state of Android.

I'll stop here, but basically, in this case none of the activities you
mentioned are hindered (all can be accessed via USB). The DRM simply helps
ensure that all storage on the phone can be treated equally as trusted. It
allows the OS to assume all storage is the same, and enables it to use all the
storage on the phone for all purposes.

Luckily, there are many options in the market, and users can vote with their
money :)

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kylec
Curiously, the only known device that can format the SD cards back to a
useable state is the Nokia N8:

[https://twitter.com/#!/joshuatopolsky/status/418339383096115...](https://twitter.com/#!/joshuatopolsky/status/4183393830961152)

~~~
rbanffy
So, all Nokia has to do is to ensure WP7's success and they will have a steady
revenue from the N8 line...

~~~
stuaxo
good old noki noknok

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rbanffy
It serves as a reminder end-users are not Microsoft's clients. Their clients,
the ones they gather requirements from, are the telephone manufacturers.

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kleiba
Sometimes you wonder how Microsoft could ever become that successful. But then
you take a minute, think again, and understand.

~~~
rbanffy
> But then you take a minute, think again, and understand.

It chills your heart, doesn't it?

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dstein
Okay, who else read that as "Wordperfect 7" and got really confused for a
second or two.

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ergo98
The S in SD stands for secure. The technology was to placate media and
copyright owners.

As an Android user and developer, I appreciate why Microsoft did this. With
Android the SD is treated entirely as a free-for-all, untrusted grab-bag.
There are no ACLs enforced on the SD storage.

Android 2.2 finally added the ability to move installed apps to the SD, but
only those apps that essentially give up any pretenses of security (meaning
extremely few).

In an ideal world if I added a 32GB SD to an 8GB Android device, I would have
40GB of first class storage. In the real world it is nothing of the sort, and
instead you have 8GB of first-class storage, and 32GB of steerage.

~~~
WiseWeasel
I think you just coined a brilliant new technical term. We should totally
start using it.

Steerage: n. A computer storage pool with more limited characteristics than
the device's primary storage, commonly with inferior throughput performance
and an inability to store a boot partition or executable software.

~~~
carbocation
This is probably an intentional allusion by ergo98. On ships, "steerage" is
the cheapest possible accommodation, which provides a stark contrast to
"first-class."

