
The dark $ide of silicon startups - noemit
http://www.noemi.ro/the-dark-side-of-silicon-startups/
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siegel
I agree these complaints are widespread in corporate America. In fact, I think
these issues are worse OUTSIDE of the startup world.

Most of the founders I deal with pay their employees before the founders
themselves get a dime of salary. Sure the founders get the bulk of the equity.
But they also give their employees equity awards, even though the employees
get paid a salary, as well (i.e. they don't take on the same risk).

In comparison, in generic corporate America, the people on top get
substantially more guaranteed cash compensation, in addition to any stock
awards.

In addition, I've had plenty of startup clients who did all sorts of generous
things for their employees that were not required. For example, when getting
acquired, I have had clients give special cash bonuses to employees to ensure
they get a sufficient "upside" in the transaction (beyond what the employee
was entitled to from their stock or options). I just haven't seen that type of
behavior in more "mature" corporations.

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noemit
In corporate America, young people don't get tricked into working severely
underpaid for equity that very often doesn't turn into a lot, and sometimes
the employees don't even realize they have to BUY the options and when it
comes down to it, can't afford them. #Realtalk

In corporate America, it's not great, but it's less of a shill because people
aren't pretending to save the world.

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erikpukinskis
> In corporate America, young people don't get tricked into working severely
> underpaid for equity

No, they just get tricked into working severely underpaid for cash. Unfair
compensation is unfair compensation. Fraudulent valuations are fraudulent. It
has nothing to do with silicon valley vs corporate America it has to do with
fraud and people taking unfair advantage of information differentials.

~~~
siegel
Well, I would say information differentials + a huge power imbalance. And I
would add to that a huge cultural shift vs. decades ago in terms of what is
considered "acceptable" and "moral" as relates to relative compensation of
rank-and-file workers vs. executives. (One can debate the extent to which
these cultural shifts are also the result of policy shifts.)

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tdeck
Did anyone else start reading the text at the top, only to scroll down a bit
and realize it's a two-column article? This seems like a very strange layout
for a web page.

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Clubber
I certainly don't see this as exclusive to Silicon Valley. I think it's
widespread in corporate America.

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noemit
Again - maybe my experience is different, but I was never told in corporate
america that I should sacrifice my free time for my company because we were
saving the world. I was underpaid (ish) but I was never abused. Startups get
away with a lot more because of the stereotype that they are different.

~~~
erikpukinskis
You're generalizing from your anecdotal experience of a handful of specific
positions to "all of corporate America" which I think is a false
generalization. Exploitative salaries are the norm. This is why unemployement
holds firm in the mid single digits, even as the economy grows: to give
employers a tool with which to frighten employees into accepting salaries that
give the employer high margins on labor.

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weirdshape
Dunno how bad it can be elsewhere but even third-rate dev shops using ASP.NET
can be pretty damn bad. I mean staying in the office until 7pm every night,
and getting nasty phone calls on Christmas eve.

~~~
downrightmike
Dealer's choice: [http://www.hubcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/good-
cheap...](http://www.hubcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/good-cheap-
fast-2a.png)

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masterzachary
I've worked with several startup clients over the past year. It is a mixed bag
like anywhere in life there are some jerks, some unethical, some selfish, and
some overly self important arrogant types.Treating workers, clients, your
customers, or anyone badly is not good for business and gets a company nowhere
over the long term. Of course, there are companies that can have success in
spite of having abusive, unethical leadership, but over the longterm no one
wants to work with crappy people for long.

I worked for an abusive, arrogant, child for over two years. I learned much
from witnessing his bad behavior and the negative effect it has on anyone that
works with him or around him. Despite what a pain it was to deal with this
nutcase, in the end I came to pity and feel sorry for him. He is a sad,
miserable, petty, mentally ill, child that lashes out at everyone, and
essentially spends more time trying to figure out ways to screw his clients
and workers out of money than offer anything of value himself. Screwing people
and being a jerk is no way to go thru life. These types need mental help.

Turns out this type of behavior hasn't exactly made him a successful business
leader. It has simply enabled him to piggyback on others hard-work, shiest his
workers, startup clients (and in turn their investors). So in a way he has had
a measure of success at screwing people out of money. But over the longterm no
one respects him and no one wants to work with him (clients included). By any
measure this type is not successful in business or in life, yet crappy greedy
mid 40 types behave this way because they no other way and they would rather
try to screw a few sheckles out of their clients & colleagues than figure out
ways to offer something of value.

Don't let these fools get you down they are a dime a dozen, narcissistic
talentless bozo's apparently grow on trees out here in LA. It is a learning
lesson to deal with one of these types, as you learn what not to do, how not
to act, and how to avoid being sucked into the crappy vortex that is working
with these types.

