
Suing the US govt over searching laptops at the border - ColinWright
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/technology/aclu-border-patrol-lawsuit.html
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merricksb
Discussed 2 days ago (540 points, 117 comments):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15240781](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15240781)

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bambax
> _In March, Joseph B. Maher, the acting general counsel for the agency [the
> Department of Homeland Security], defended the practice in a USA Today
> opinion piece. “These electronic media searches have produced [...]
> convictions for child pornography, intellectual property rights
> violations..._

How are child pornography or IP rights violations a matter of national
security? If they are then anything is -- which is probably their idea, but
they shouldn't be let run with it.

~~~
joering2
Of course. Besides they can say that pedophile is a criminal so she/he might
also want to bomb the capital. Or something.

Another stretch I know of is someone who is a US-citizen but did not want to
give out their laptop password. So they try to wait him out at the airport for
as long as they can - 8 hours I believe. No water (I mean who knows maybe you
can build a bomb from water) no ability to stand up or walk (you might run).
Sit in one spot for 8 hours. After which he still didn't want to give out the
password and they had to let him in because he is USC and 8 hours ran out. So
guess what they did - they packed him in a car and drove him to another
airport (!!!) and told him the 8-hour clock resets (first amendment supposedly
does not apply to airports on any ports of entry). After 2 hours the officer
smiled and told him they can do it endlessly, because they will just come back
to the previous airport. My friend gladly gave up password and was let go 45
minutes later.

Edit: no, my friend has not been anywhere with this. I asked him about this,
he said that he is afraid of going anywhere since he had whole laptop hard
drive with music that he cannot prove (anymore??) he has bought it, so it
might be assumed illegal downloads. Its been almost 2 years. I think he moved
on.

~~~
jacquesm
That sounds as if some crimes were committed against your friend. He/she
should definitely speak up or go to the press or a lawyer with this. If
substantiated this would be a pretty big deal.

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botverse
> “These electronic media searches have produced information used to combat
> terrorism, violations of export controls, and convictions for child
> pornography, intellectual property rights violations and visa fraud,”

One thing people don't realise is that it's very difficult to be completely
sure that all the data cached in your device is completely legal in every
country. The best is to travel with wiped out devices and load them on the
other side.

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ssijak
Business idea : service that backs up your whole phone, like an image of the
disk, then you wipe the phone and "install" the image from the services cloud.
It could maybe be doable on androids, or only rootes phones.

~~~
raarts
What's wrong with iCloud?

~~~
ioquatix
All your data is "safe" in a USA-based data center?

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zizek23
These are authoritarian fascist policies that are brazenly infringing on
people's personal effects, content whether a diary, phone or laptop is your
inviolable personal effect.

They can search the physical books and laptops all they want but not the
content, that is crossing a huge red line that simply cannot be crossed in any
free state and raises serious questions about our constitution, the rule of
law and the court system.

When it comes to China or Russia we automatically presume the moral high
ground to point fingers, but then do not detect the contradiction in this
quiet acquiescence or being reduced to seeking workarounds in chrome books and
such.

There is a dissonance of principles observed more in posturing and
grandstanding that makes criticisms of other states not a commitment to
principle but the worst kind of denial and jingoism.

It really is time to stop reacting and quietly reflect on what we have become.
Are we simply a society of income and access to products with everything else
open to expediency and pretension.

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beefield
Out of curiosity, as I have not crossed the us border for a while, what are
currently the odds that an average HN reader is required to disclose
computer/phone contents? These discussions and news kind of imply that it
would be quite common, but somehow it feels unbelievable that it would be that
common...

~~~
dx034
I travel to the US frequently as do many of my colleagues. I've never heard of
such a case. You usually see the door to the interview rooms and last time I
could see it while I was in the queue, I believe no one except employees
entered it while at least 200 people entered the country.

Not significant but would assume it's very rare. Considering how many people
enter the country each day, even a 1:10000 chance would produce a lot of
cases.

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yami2yami
How can one be sure that an unlocked device won't be manipulated in order to
make a false conviction?

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chris_engel
I dont understand that behavior - what if I just send the device via
fedex/dhl? It will cross the border unchecked and I can pick it up on the
other side.

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joering2
?? Who told you packages are not checked? Of course they are. Twice I ordered
harddrive from USA to be shipped to Europe (10TBs are much cheaper than buying
in EU) and twice it had attached huge brochure that my electronic device was
inspected and images might be done and while they don't believe they damaged
it, if I have issues with it, I should call.

~~~
Zak
They can image the device, or possibly even refuse it entry if they can't read
the contents, but they cannot detain, harass or otherwise coerce the owner of
said device while it's in the mail. Mailing an encrypted hard drive is likely
reasonably safe with regard to unauthorized access to its contents.

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Havoc
About time someone calls them out on that BS

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Lxr
What is the actual motivation for doing these searches?

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bn127
The last time I have been searched for written or published contraband was at
the East German border.

East Germany was an all-encompassing state with the desirable (parasitic) jobs
being government jobs.

"Western" governments currently expand in similar fashion. Unless someone
works in a hot field like web development, government jobs are the safest bet
with guaranteed pensions.

The government takes care of its own, inventing useless work for the people on
its payroll and sucking dry the productive parts of the population.

