
Denied Breaks, U.S. Poultry Workers Wear Diapers on the Job (2016) - marojejian
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-11/poultry-workers-in-diapers-as-bathroom-breaks-denied-oxfam-says
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lukev
This is exactly the kind of thing for which (in my experience), libertarians
of the type common in tech don't have a good answer.

Preventing this kind of abuse involves regulation, either directly or via
unions (which themselves must have regulatory support in order to work.)

The free market can't solve all problems.

~~~
friedButter
>The free market can't solve all problems.

No, the "free market" has decided that the workers have a value below minimum
wage to the company employing them. Remove the minimum wage and the workers
will get more breaks, but earn less overall.

> Preventing this kind of abuse involves regulation

Or it may be a side effect of what regulation exists such as increased taxes
for full time employment or minimum wage?

~~~
lukev
That's just swapping one kind of abuse for another. It is already almost
impossible to survive on minimum wage in many parts of the country.

Stated bluntly: there is nothing stopping the free market from abusing or
killing people if the incentives align that way. If we decide we are better
than that as a society, regulation is needed.

~~~
friedButter
> there is nothing stopping the free market from abusing or killing people if
> the incentives align that way. If we decide we are better than that as a
> society, regulation is needed

Well, thats true. Any "thing" stopping the free market from abusing\killing
people is a form of regulation. Just like you're not allowed to auction off
your own organs, or collect and auction organs of others to pay off debts.In a
"free market", you would have the ability to market your body too.

> It is already almost impossible to survive on minimum wage in many parts of
> the country

Do you feel people should consider this while having children? If you're poor,
most of the time your kids will grow up poor\min wage as well. Should you have
kids?

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why-el
A break should be law-mandated, and it is in VERY FEW states:
[https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/rest.htm](https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/rest.htm).

~~~
24gttghh
Holy shit. I thought that all states (federally) had mandatory regulations for
at least _unpaid_ rest breaks every certain number of hours worked, but this
is horrifying. And only 20 states have mandatory lunch breaks! Even those
aren't required to be paid. WTF. I've lived in two of those states my whole
life so I just assumed everyone had that...

~~~
5555624
There are not paid breaks or lunch breaks in the federal government, either.
On the other hands, smokers get breaks. The non-smokers in my office once took
a single 30-45 minute "smoke break" on Fridays. Eventually, our supervisor's
manager joined in, saying it made sense.

~~~
24gttghh
I mean paid or unpaid, people need to be given some kind (food, rest, or
otherwise) of a break in a 6-8 hour period.

------
zentiggr
Sounds like mandatory video records of the production lines is a necessary
first step... reviewable by anyone at any time and with missing footage
fineable (backup cameras are not prohibitively expensive).

Again, outside independent monitoring and a serious expectation of financial
losses are the only ways corporations are made to follow their own statements
and 'best practices'.

Additionally, this is potential malfeasance in the process of providing our
food supply - there should be a higher standard here.

------
c3534l
Are you sure they aren't being denied _paid_ breaks? I thought being denied
breaks was illegal, but some states let employers force employees to punch out
first. You could argue against that, but it makes sense in jobs where the end
product is objectively measurable and you're being paid for that narrow job.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

~~~
wgerard
It's likely that if they're being denied paid breaks, taking an unpaid break
would result in being fired.

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legitster
I worked in a seafood plant that wasn't this bad, but had similar policies.

\- During rushes, it actually made sense. You can't stop the line because
someone needs a break.

\- You learn to regulate your fluid intake/output to correspond to the
scheduled breaks. Eventually you adapt.

\- These are tough, grueling entry-level positions. There are many, many awful
things about this type of work that you just accept.

\- Floor managers are often some of the dumbest people you will run into.
Anyone smart enough is saving the money for another job/college. The people
promoted to supervisors really don't want to apply themselves to another line
of work. As such, they all have a mentality of wanting their floors to look
busy, even if there is not a lot of work on hand. Having a powertrip over
denying bathroom breaks is often part of this.

~~~
mlloyd
Sorry, this isn't something that should be accepted. The company should have
adequate capacity to compensate for a body break. If they don't, then they
aren't hiring enough people and they should hire more people. I'm sorry that
you had to endure this, but you shouldn't. It's unacceptable working
conditions.

------
jonathanlb
What else but a union could prevent this sort of mistreatment?

~~~
linuxps2
Laws with proportionate fines and regular inspections / reporting. But unions
are really the best way

~~~
dragonwriter
Such laws are usually _also_ a product of union activity, which involves more
than just contract negotiations.

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zombieprocesses
Sounds like brutal work. Does anyone here have experience with this type of
work? Is there a reason why processing poultry hasn't been automated? If we
have automation systems that can put cars together, surely processing chicken
is within the realm of possibility?

~~~
redblacktree
The car problem is considerably easier because it's predictable. Parts have
tolerances. With poultry, you're dealing with a natural product with quite a
wide range of shapes and sizes.

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jordache
de-regulation & free market will make right! Let's have the product labels
indicate whether workers wore diapers and have the consumers decide the
direction of worker conditions.

~~~
imhoguy
That is contradicting - such labels would be regulation. The best free market
are small family run poultries where you can witness meat preparation
yourself, no need for labels.

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martin_bech
As a Scandinavian, the US really seems like a supersad nation.

~~~
dang
Please don't take HN threads on generic ideological tangents. Such discussions
are always the same, which defeats the purpose of this site.

It's not ideological like "taxation is theft" and whatnot, but overweening
national generalization works the same way for practical purposes.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
conanbatt
Thats meta. Start treating the workers as the poultry.

Next, feed them and force them to stay still, so they gain weight and spend
more time taking care of the chickens.

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city41
In order to read this article it looks like you need to subscribe to Bloomberg
Professional Service. I fear that will lead to discussion here solely based on
the title.

~~~
jerf
Based on the title, it doesn't seem to me that HN is a remotely suitable place
for this. If the text isn't even open that pretty much seals it.

I like the generally open HN policy on topics as much as the next nerd, but
folks, if the article is basically "You'll be SHOCKED At How Steaming Mad This
Will Make You!" with no connections to SV or tech or any intellectual topic,
it really doesn't belong here. If you want a steady stream of that stuff,
goodness knows the challenge is more in _excluding_ this crap from your feed
than getting more of it in our modern outrage-driven news culture.

(And for that matter even if you do have a connection to SV or tech and it's
still just an "You'll be SHOCKED and OUTRAGED!" article, leave it off please.)

