
Drinking behind 1 in 10 deaths of working-age adults - tokenadult
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/26/drinking-alcohol-alcoholism-binge-deaths-fatal-cdc/11384335/
======
noname123
While we are at it, can we list some other addictions that we use to cope with
life. Me personally, it's gambling, pornography, sulking alone, facebooking
acquaintances to see how they're doing better than me or worse, checking
sports score and living vicariously through the lives of professional athletes
on and off the field, checking TechCrunch/Hack News and doing the same with
tech billionaires, making up lists and goals alone or with other people that
will never come to fruition due to excessive wishful thinking and ambition to
overcompensate but fun to preoccupy my mind for the time being. Window-
shopping online and offline for the perfect couch, jewelry, fragrance or other
consumer goods that is marketed to me. Reading self-help books, attending
wellness workshops, "social intelligence" workshops to help me with my
awkwardness, tech-meetup's to mingle. Wasting money at pubs, lounges and clubs
hanging out with friends by shallow association of work, school, social
network where nothing of importance is said and egos are stroked and
reciprocated.

Going home alone. Or accompanying a date back home but feeling alone. Or
sleeping int the same bed, wondering how I got here and still feeling alone.
But I'm just doing what I'm told to find someone, don't be picky, "you're not
getting younger." Forging intimate moments like taking a trip to Montreal in
July, go visit a botanical garden or go skydiving like what I'm told by
Hallmark and merchants of the USA, I feel nothing but my CC swiped to the max.
Keeping an overpriced apartment in downtown like a dumb bird nest-building for
the sole purpose of mating and trying to fit in.

So I have to keep working and running round and round in the hamster-wheel to
pay for my student loans, car loan, credit card debt, insurances, save up for
a mortgage so I can take on even a bigger loan to convince someone that I may
or may not like to start a family with me, so that we can both be indebted for
the kids' college education loans.

But still everyday I wake up, and I keep braving it through. Because I'm
hoping maybe just maybe, I can be like Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs or Bill
Gates. Hit it out of the ball park, that is the American Dream, work hard and
if things don't work out, keep working even harder and harder, and one day
freedom will come for me. I have to believe and try, after all this is the
American way.

~~~
andruby
Thank you for sharing the honest evaluation of your life. The only advice I
can give you after having lived in the, from my point of view, shallow
American tech world: move to Europe.

The people in most European countries will be less welcoming at first, but I
can tell you, if you stick through you will find them to be more profound.

It helps that we don't have an American Dream which focusses on financial
prosperity through hard work, but rather a joy of life (joie de vivre) which
encourages us to enjoy the beauty of life and nature.

Travel to Tuscany or Portugal and see for yourself.

~~~
taway
I was born in Portugal and lived there for most of my life. Virtually
everything the OP said could describe some portuguese person just as well.
Hell, I could have written it at some point and it would be a surprisingly
accurate summary of my life back then. These are symptoms of problems that
live in you, that consume you from the inside, they will follow you wherever
you go, you can't just run away and escape them all. I don't have any
recommendations, but you have my empathy and understanding. I believe you will
find your way out, maybe by finding some deeper meaning to your life, maybe by
finding your place in the world or maybe by just stop giving a fuck.

On the other hand I have a feeling that something is pretty fucked with
western society in general. And as the western model of society is pretty much
expanding everywhere it is becoming a global problem. I can't quite put by
finger on it but maybe it has to do with ever growing expectations, the idea
that we can be or do everything, that is all in our hands and only depends on
us puts an immense pressure on our shoulders and leads to immense pain. The
truth, I think, is that luck plays an huge part in our life, on our successes
and on our failures.

I am not sure if I made any sense, if I did not, please accept my apologies ;)

~~~
noname123
You makes perfect sense, taway. I appreciate your sentiment regarding
traveling somewhere will not solve one's problem. I want to travel to Macau or
Goa and eat the fusion of traditional Indian or Cantonese-Portuguese cuisine
and maybe plays Gaopai at the casino's there but pretty sure that'll only
obliterate my anxieties for a few days.

I also appreciate your empathy and stating that you also felt the same once.
At least for me, there's more to a person who is willing to make fun of
themselves or admit freely to their shortcomings than someone who offers eager
advice.

Re: Western society criticism; as someone who grew up partially in Eastern
society (China), I believe that traditional Buddhist practice is in practice
and effect more similar to the Catholic Church than different. And people in
China and South Korea see the same alternative appeal in Christianity as
people in the West seek Yoga or Zen Buddhism. So perhaps it's not the
religion/philosophy content but the person doing the seeking.

------
ryanmim
I drink way too much. I've accepted this. What stops me from drinking way too
much? Not much, because I'm able to rationalize my drinking with the many
beneficial effects touted. There's a lot of information about how drinking a
bit is helpful for heart disease and how it basically reduces mortality across
the board. More information is needed about how drinking is HARMFUL beyond
cirrhosis and the short term effects (violence, drunk driving). I don't drive
while drunk and I'm not a violent drunk, but I drink too much. I know I'm at
risk for cirrhosis but I also think there are more dangers than simply that.
These other negative effects need to be more prominent for those of us who are
these "contributing to society" drinkers.

~~~
teddyh
You are not the same person while drunk. If you think that the person you are
while sober is a better person, you have a perfectly valid reason for not
drinking.

I’ll just leave you with this:

[http://www.cracked.com/blog/9-youtube-videos-that-prove-
anyo...](http://www.cracked.com/blog/9-youtube-videos-that-prove-anyone-can-
get-sober/)

Not so much to prove that you _can_ do it, but more for the _change_ that
anyone can see. You could hardly tell that it’s the same person in the first
videos as the last ones.

P.S.

I found the more relevant article I was looking for:

[http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-things-you-dont-realize-
about-...](http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-things-you-dont-realize-about-
addiction-until-you-quit/)

It goes into more detail about what I mentioned above – how you are a
different person while drunk, but you might not realize this until you quit.

~~~
morgante
> You are not the same person while drunk. If you think that the person you
> are while sober is a better person, you have a perfectly valid reason for
> not drinking.

What if I think the tipsy me is a better person? He's much more outgoing,
interesting, and far less socially awkward.

~~~
nisa
It's an illusion. I, too share this thinking through.

Beside doing things you regret when drunk - like making an ass out of yourself
when talking to more sober people in bars or feeling shitty the next day... it
does not make you experience yourself as a better person when sober. You have
to be drunk to be that better person. So you drink. It does not help - at
least that's my experience. Getting drunk can be fun but...where to stop?

Being outgoing for me is strongly connected to my self-esteem and feeling of
self-worth. If it's down the drain I hardly leave the house and run away from
social interactions without alcohol. If I accumulated some self-worth and
feeling fine with myself I enjoy going out and being social in a sober state
even more.

I doubt that you are more socially awkward for other people when sober but
your anxiety makes you so uncomfortable that you have this urge to grab a
drink and have a feeling of relaxation. After a few beers you feel better...

Be careful it's a vicious circle and it's worth to spend some energy into
forcing yourself into social situation in a sober state. It can be fun to sit
sober in a bar and watch all the people getting more and more drunk.

------
Zigurd
You have to wonder what the economic impact would be if government policy were
driven by a top ten list of quality-of-life issues. Would there be PSAs on TV
suggesting a bong hit instead of a drink? Would soda pop be locked up behind
the counter? "Got more milk than you can digest?" How many points of GDP would
it be worth to do the necessary social engineering?

The other side of the coin is: What is the total cost of successful industry
lobbying that makes harmful products seem normal to the public?

I suspect that fascination with experiments in optimizations is what drives
interest in things like Soylent.

~~~
adwf
The tricky part in my mind is determining what exactly a quality of life issue
is in the first place. I know plenty of moderate, sensible drinkers who would
consider their quality of life lowered if there were any more restrictions
placed on alcohol.

It's not just a price issue, but all sorts of things like not being able to
buy alcohol on a Sunday, despite not being religious. Or one that I personally
_still_ experience from time to time - being asked for ID despite being 12
years over the age limit.

These are all quality of life issues in my mind. If we were to solely go on
doctors guidelines, life would be pretty boring. No sport - too dangerous. No
drinking - too much liver damage. No sailing, no cheerleading, no mountain
climbing, etc...

There comes a point at which you just have to tell the doctors that it's all
well and good pointing out the risks, but ultimately, life is about risks. I
can barely see the point in living if we deny ourselves all the slightly risky
things just because of the potential downsides. It's cowardice wrapped up in a
fresh new label for the modern age.

~~~
Zigurd
The threshold for binge drinking described in the article is well into the
"I'd be smashed" territory, so there's no alcohol scaremongering in this case.

Also things like free-soloing (corrected as per comment below), and for that
matter things society frowns on like needle-drug use, are self-limiting and
have orders of magnitude less impact than binge drinking. That's where
prioritization washes out pursuing ineffective optimizations.

~~~
j_jochem
I suspect that what you understand the word free-climbing to mean is not what
it actually refers to:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_climbing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_climbing)

------
ggreer
The actual study is:
[http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0293.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0293.htm).
It's also available as a PDF:
[http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/pdf/13_0293.pdf](http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/pdf/13_0293.pdf)

~~~
mtdewcmu
Someone will have to parse the study to find out what's really happening. My
guess is that most of the deaths that are being called alcohol-related are not
chronic alcoholics; most are probably accidents and violence in which alcohol
had been consumed at some point. So, I would be cautious about reading
causation into those statistics.

~~~
lostlogin
There was a document published not too long ago about Auckland City Hospital,
New Zealand which would possibly support what you're saying. A huge percentage
of the emergency department admissions had been drinking. The below link is
similar, but related only to accidents. The gist being that people admitted to
hospital following an unintentional injury are often under the influence of
alcohol. Small study, 2000ish participant, 20% ish screened for alcohol, 50%
were under influence.
[http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2417/content.pdf](http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/120-1249/2417/content.pdf)

------
hga
I'm not sure this is all that surprising.

Turn it around: what do we expect to be the causes for those adults between
age 20 and 64 who die? I really should read up on the relevant actuarial
facts, but isn't it the case that by and large those from 20 to, say, 50 plus
or minus are fairly healthy?

~~~
mikegioia
I think what's surprising is that 1/10 is pretty high for something that
technically could be prevented entirely. It has nothing to do with other
causes of death.

~~~
rwmj
"Technically could be prevented" .. how? Prohibition didn't work out well, and
people can make booze with some fruit juice, air and a radiator even in the
most extremely regulated environments[1].

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruno](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruno)

~~~
ufo
Prohibition is not the only alternative out there. For example, tobacco was
never outlawed but now many countries place heavy taxes and advertisement
restrictions on it. Overall its become a much less acceptable habit than it
used to be and cigarrete related illness has gone down.

~~~
chrischen
That's also do to teaching the kids at a young age. Social acceptance was the
main factor, and will be the main factor in limiting alcohol usage (if it does
happen).

------
rimantas
Having in mind how many deaths are caused by health issues related to obesity
what number should be in headline "Eating behind _ in 10 deaths of working-age
adults"?

~~~
SoftwareMaven
_Obesity_ alone is not the _cause_ of those deaths; it is just another
symptom. In fact, when fat is stored subcutaneously, there appears to be
little to no increase in mortality, and, for some (middle aged women at
least), it is actually protective. The real disease is _metabolic syndrome_ ,
which affects both thin people and fat people. It is a constellation of
disorders including abdominal weight gain, fatty liver disease, high blood
pressure, dyslipidemia, and high blood sugar or diabetes.

Metabolic syndrome is the killer (often leading to cardiovascular disease,
liver or kidney failure, blindness, amputations, and, perhaps,
dimentia/Alzheimer's [the studies on this are early and not yet cinclusive]),
but our society is so focused on weight that thin people automatically assume
they are immune to it and everybody carrying any extra weight is assumed to
have one foot in the grave. If you eat like crap (a sugar-laden, high trans
fat diet of processed food-like substances), you are at risk unless you won
the genetic lottery (and those genetics may just buy you time, not immunity).

------
transfire
I suspect, the salient fact that the CDC is leaving out is that many, if not
most, of these are from car accidents.

Also, by qualifying it as "working-age" it skews the results heavily. What
about all the people that did all that drinking and managed to make it past
working age?

Lucky for us, automated cars are going to solve most of this problem in a
decade or two. So a more honest assessment would answer how many _adults_ are
dying from non-vehicular drinking causes.

~~~
biehl
So, try to regulate drinking until automatic cars save us?

~~~
nilved
Yes, prohibition showed us that regulation is an effective way to prevent
people from doing things

------
tluyben2
Many of my most gifted employees, partners and colleagues are/were heavy
drinkers (not alcoholics; I know those, but in other professions); I see a lot
of programmers drink heavily simply to 'forget'. For many there simply are not
a lot of ways to leave the problem solving of the day for the next day or, god
forbid, over the weekend. The only way to lift it over a period is dope (or
burnout) for them. I see it as a big issue but I don't know how normal it is;
I would say very normal as I witnessed it in 100s of programmers, but that
might be restricted to the regions (EU/RU) I mostly worked in. I can
understand it though; I have been working for 13 hours today on a hard coding
issue and in the end I found a bug in the solution. But that was 'enough' I
thought and closed the laptop 4 hours ago. I cannot stop thinking about it and
I just opened my computer to type this and solve the bug (It is 00:30 am
sunday morning here). Booze would've let me forget. What ways are you all
using to do that? I tried meditating which works but after that it just pops
back.

~~~
purringmeow
Exercise. You are focused on reps or breathing and you zone out. Really
effective way to shift your focus and improves mental condition too.

~~~
tluyben2
Agreed. That's also a good way and I do that too, actually today for an hour,
but after the cooldown I want to still solve the issue today... Mind you ; I
really _love_ what I do and it's my work and hobby and passion, but sometimes
I want to shut it _off_.

~~~
purringmeow
Going out with people who aren't in IT helps too. I too have had that problem
of just wanting to stay until 05:00 to do something, but I tell myself that's
not the effective way and go to bed regardless.

I don't know you, so I don't know what else to say. Just experiment - try
mixing exercise with active social life and new experiences. Go skydive or
something like that :)

------
mullingitover
I've often wondered why we can't replace alcohol with a less damaging
recreational drug. We could take a tranqilizer like valium, make a dilute
solution of it, add flavoring or whatever it takes to give it alcohol's 'kick'
and end up with an acceptable substitute. This isn't to say that valium is
'safe' but it's far less toxic to the body than alcohol.

~~~
Scoundreller
I suspect a lot of the anti-drug[1] lobby is heavy supported by the legal drug
lobby[2]. There's just so much to lose by so many people if safer alternatives
emerge (ignoring the fact that new industries will emerge).

Dr. David Nutt is working on this:
[http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-
nu...](http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2014/feb/27/david-nutt-drink-
alcohol-substitute-safer-intoxicant) but there are already a large pile of
options, just a lack of political will.

[1] Anti-drug referring to anti-illegal-drug. [2] of which consist of drugs
that would never pass the medication approval process, but solely exist due to
a history of use and grandfathering

------
dbrannan
I remember asking my father why he never drank alcohol. He said, "My dad (your
grandfather) and three brothers couldn't leave it alone, so I figure I
wouldn't be able to either. If you are wise you will do the same." I'm 46 and
never had an alcoholic drink.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I admire your resolve. Keep it that way.

I drank my first beer when I was 18 years old. That was the only beer that
year. When 19 I drank two. When 20 I drank four. When 21 I drank eight (yes,
really!). Around 23 I started drinking like everyone else. It's funny because
I initially didn't drink by choice - thanks to religious upbringing + the
general distaste for beer I refused to drink (and, sadly, partying[0])
alcohol, opting for coke instead. What I learned then is that alcoholic
beverages just start to taste more the more you drink them.

[0] - It's not the booze I didn't drink that I regret; it's the connections
with interesting people of various trades I could make, but didn't, because I
haven't attended the university grills, etc.

------
freditup
Good reminder I think that we should never pressure anyone to drink. Whether
for health, family, religious, personal, or any other reasons, there's
absolutely nothing wrong with choosing not to drink alcohol. I enjoy a drink
now and then, but I get quite upset when people pressure others to drink.

~~~
cclogg
I go through that quite a bit lol because I've made the conscious decision not
to drink ever (I don't care to spend the money on it nor do I care for the
taste). But my vice is drinking soda heh... darn sugar!

------
bluehazed
I've pretty much resolved myself to slowly drinking myself to death, I'm
pretty sure I'd have killed myself due to boredom or stress otherwise.

Hopefully maybe getting out of my current field (devops) and going back into
school (have a CS degree to finish) will help a bit.

~~~
logicallee
lol @ going to college so you can _stop_ drinking. Only the engineering
department... :-)

~~~
frozenport
After what happened when Facebook came to our campus, I would assume CS
degrees don't fall into this category. Perhaps the folks in Electrical
Engineering still got it.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Nope, EEs also party hard. Try maybe some theological university.

------
millstone
A woman who drinks a glass of wine a night and two on Friday is a "heavy
drinker?" Having two mixed drinks within a three hour period is a binge? I
don't know if the science supports these numbers, but they certainly do not
agree with common definitions.

~~~
saulrh
If you can tie a definition of "heavy drinker" to "causative factor in 1 in 10
deaths of working-age adults", I don't care whether it agrees with the common
definition, it's still useful. If anything, it's the reverse - if some
quantity is enough to cause that much loss of life, then it's probably
"heavy".

------
Spooky23
You need to pay careful attention to statistics for stuff like this.

A drunk guy sleeping in a bus shelter who gets struck by a driver who wasn't
drinking is still labeled as an alcohol-related car accident, for example.

------
aaron695
I would suspect suicide is a significant part of this figure. The fact this
isn't mentioned is a worry.

Even the concept of singular occupant motor vehicular accidents(Drunk or not)
are not quite what they necessarily seem.

------
anovikov
One in 6 - sounds like too much - what is the definition/threshold for
'excessive drinking'?

------
nawitus
It's about 16% in Finland.

------
quasque
Headline should be modified to indicate that the study was carried out in the
USA. It's not generally applicable to the world population, or necessarily to
all high-income countries.

------
indlebe
Does anyone else find it strange that the definitions of binge and heavy
drinking vary so much between the men and women groups? I would think that
only body weight would be the heavy influence on this.

Is USA Today just being sexist?

~~~
freditup
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but assuming you're not...

But first, 5 drinks in 2-3 hrs for men vs. 4 drinks in 2-3 hrs for women isn't
that different. Second, women on average weigh less, so that contributes to
the difference as you mentioned. And third, there are other ways alcohol
affects men and women differently.

Edit: Just saw the 15 drinks/week for men vs. 8 drinks/week for women which is
a larger difference. However, to call USA Today 'sexist' because of that is
kind of out there. These numbers aren't just made up out of thin air: for
example,
[http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/De...](http://www.icap.org/PolicyIssues/ExtremeDrinking/tabid/91/Default.aspx)

~~~
indlebe
>if you're being sarcastic

what's "sarcastic"?

>there are other ways alcohol affects men and women differently.

sources please?

:)

~~~
lostlogin
I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give a few of the answers.
Basic anatomical differences like a uterus and breasts are part of the
equation.

[http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-
use.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm)
[http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/women_alcohol.htm](http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/women_alcohol.htm)

~~~
indlebe
>I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give a few of the answers.

How does thinking produce answers?

>Basic anatomical differences like a uterus and breasts are part of the
equation.

But what about hermaphrodites?

I would have thought that 30 seconds thought would give you the impression
that I'm being super serious.

