
How I made money podcasting and why you probably don't want to - jason_tko
https://blog.usejournal.com/how-i-made-8-000-per-month-podcasting-and-why-you-probably-dont-want-to-855966a557aa
======
ggm
A hidden threat in this, is that podcasting can look like journalism to many
economies. If you "report" on current affairs in any way, you can fall into
the trap.

Mainstream broadcasters are always super-careful when staff are _sent_ to the
USA, to get the right visa. If the staffer just _goes_ to the USA, they have
to make damn sure they don't return to work, even if they take that call about
some story, there is a risk: If you entered the US on a tourist visa but
always intended interviewing somebody, you're working as a journalist.

They can, and do, chuck you out of the country. And returns get hard once you
have to say YES on the forms about "...have you ever...."

I don't think the USA is unique in this regard. Lots of economies, western,
democratic, and otherwise do not want people to casually "just do it" -you
need to front up about what you do sometimes.

~~~
Kurtz79
I always thought that a "tourist" visa allows you to do "work" for your non-US
company, it just prevents you to from "working" for a US company, or being
paid by a US company for work done during your visit.

I entered the US dozens of times on an ESTA for work reasons, I always declare
I'm there for "business", offering detail if needed, and never had any issue.

~~~
ajdlinux
As you'll find if you dig into visa regulations in many countries, the
definition of "business" (activities usually permitted on business visas or
visa waiver programs) is typically a lot more detailed than just whether the
company paying you is in or out of the jurisdiction.

For example, in the US case, check out
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Acceptable_and_prohibit...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Acceptable_and_prohibited_uses_of_a_B-1_or_B-2_visa).
The rules for B visas apply to ESTA as well. Journalism is explicitly
prohibited on B visas.

This is why my employer's internal immigration processes, even for short-term
visits like conferences or whatever, present you with a comprehensive list of
different categories of activity you might be undertaking to determine whether
you need a work permit or not. It's annoying, and our internal immigration
systems are very, very much imperfect, but I can see how it came to be.

~~~
Kurtz79
That's great information, thanks.

To be honest, the range of activities allowed it's fairly reasonable.

------
jstandard
I appreciate what Tim has done and continues to accomplish to raise the
profile and acceptance of startups as a viable career choice in Japan.

I've first-hand experience with the many challenges of startups in Japan.
Finding talent who understand how startups are different. Convincing larger
partners you're not simply another "supplier" they can grind margin out of.
Explaining to potential investors the tradeoffs of quality, speed, and
confirming product fit.

Educational platforms like what Tim has built through podcasting are needed to
help close these gaps.

Thanks to Tim for the insightful post on "how the sausage was made" and
looking forward to seeing good things coming out of Tepco's innovation
platform.

~~~
timoth3y
Wow. Thank you for that. I love putting the podcast together, and I enjoy it
more now that I've taken the show non-commercial.

I like to think I'm having an impact on the ecosystem here, and as I mentioned
in the article, four Japanese startup founders have told me that listening to
the guests on Disrupting Japan is a big part of what gave them the courage to
start their own companies. I kind of teared up when they told me that. I'm not
sure exactly why.

These open, personal episodes are emotionally draining to publish. I'm a
nervous wreck right up until the moment they go live. The feedback is almost
always wonderful, so I don't know why it's still so hard to share, but it is.

I guess I'm fine with that.

Maybe part of connecting is just accepting that we are all kind of basket
cases on the inside. And that's perfectly OK.

~~~
jfengel
Indeed, thank you very much. I listen to a _lot_ of podcasts while commuting
and exercising, and I'd wondered about how the business end worked. I receive
an extraordinary amount of great content for nothing more than the price of
ads (which I skip a lot of; sorry but it's true).

I have gone out of my way to purchase products that advertise on podcasts: I'm
typing this as I eat a lunch flavored with hot sauce from FuegoBox.

I don't know how well most podcasters do from that. You had a wonderfully
lucrative target audience; most of what I listen to has a larger market but
with less money. I don't know how many Casper mattresses and MeUndies they can
possibly buy. The impression I get from the IHeartRadio-branded ones hint that
by the time the marketers and support get their cut, it's poverty-level wages.

Again, thanks for the look behind the scenes. That was incredibly informative
and very well written.

~~~
timoth3y
I think the same basic strategy could work for any true niche podcast. But
"niche" is different than "small."

Two guys talking about the NFL to 3,000 listeners would be very hard to
monetize, but a sports podcast that focused on local HS sports teams, or one
that talked about MLB from the LGBTQ perspective? Those would be pretty easy
to monetize using the same basic strategy I used.

I think the biggest advantage I had was not my specific audience, but the
decades I've spent selling new products and starting companies. Of course,
that _is_ also my audience, so I can't be completely sure.

------
gringoDan
This author really practices what he preaches with regards to being vulnerable
himself to get others to open up. Check out the about page [0] of his site.
It's an honest reckoning of his entire life, not just a list of the
highlights, as so many other people's bios are.

[0]
[https://www.disruptingjapan.com/tim/](https://www.disruptingjapan.com/tim/)

------
personlurking
Great post

Is there a general ratio for how much audio you record per session vs how long
your average podcast episode is? Do you cut, say, 25% or something like that?
They seem to run 40-50 minutes, from checking your site.

Would going the Patreon route (since your podcast is ad-free now) be viable?

~~~
diN0bot
I'm interested in this, too.

Also, it seems like there are still ways to receive some revenue from creating
useful content that thousands of people are interested in. Not because the
money is so important, but because there are parts of community engagement
that are fun to do and feel rewarding, and there are other parts that can be
contracted.

I didn't understand the "make a media company" or nothing aspect considering
he is still podcasting as a fun hobby anyway.

~~~
michaelt

      I didn't understand the "make a
      media company" or nothing aspect
    

If I quit my BigCo job to bootstrap a business from my savings, I'd want to
recognise if the business was failing _well before_ it lead me to personal
bankruptcy. So I'd have a deadline and success criteria.

Presumably his success criteria for the become-a-pro-podcaster experiment
wasn't being met selling his ad inventory alone, and selling extra inventory
to his existing sales prospects got him closer.

------
hashberry
Loved the ending. Self-disclosure is a big part of humanistic psychology.
Sidney Jourard[0] explored this in depth:

 _You cannot collaborate with another person toward some common end unless you
know him. How can you know him, and he you, unless you have engaged in enough
mutual disclosure of self to be able anticipate how he will react and what
part he will play?_

 _If we want to be loved, we must disclose ourselves. If we want to love
someone, he must permit us to know him. This would seem to be obvious. Yet
most of us spend a great part of our lives thinking up ways to avoid becoming
known. Indeed, much of human life is best described as impersonation. We are
role players, every one of us._

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Jourard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Jourard)

~~~
JDiculous
What a fantastic quote.

------
z3t4
Trying to create a market is like being stuck in a sailing boat in the dead
calm. Easier to just sail with existing market winds.

------
ravedave5
The end bit about parties is so true. That's the best when you meet someone
and get them to really open up and tell you about some crazy thing they are
working on or they had happen to them.

------
alexashka
This was an honest, down to earth look at realities of podcasting.

Well written and sincere, great stuff.

~~~
timoth3y
Thanks! It was great to see my article posted. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It
took me about six months to get ready emotionally to write that article.

Podcasting was one of the best (non-financial) decisions I ever made.

------
lacampbell
It's behind a sign in wall for me because I've read too many medium articles,
apparently.

Bring back blogspot!

~~~
timoth3y
Here is a link to the original. I posted on Medium because it seems more
people will visit Medium than a blog they've never heard of before.

[https://www.disruptingjapan.com/how-i-made-8000-per-month-
po...](https://www.disruptingjapan.com/how-i-made-8000-per-month-podcasting-
and-why-you-probably-dont-want-to/)

I wish it weren't so.

~~~
wishinghand
Among the Hacker News crowd the sentiment is going the other way.

------
puranjay
As an aside, when I landed on this page, I had a sticky sign-in bar from
Medium, a sticky menu from Noteworthy, and a sticky bottom bar asking me to
sign-up.

The text - what I came to the page for - occupied just 60% of the screen.

What a horrible UI!

~~~
Causality1
That much? I only see the first two lines, and that's with a 16:10 monitor.
From the "use a bookmarking system that only works on our website" to the
astonishingly poorly-framed author photo to the "clap for this story" social
media button which is a term I've never heard before in my life, the poor page
layout choices are really dragging down an excellent article.

~~~
asimilator
[https://i.imgur.com/Kz5JHuJ.png](https://i.imgur.com/Kz5JHuJ.png)

I get only 2/3rds of the headline on mobile.

I guess it’s nice that the Medium app is made for readers, cause their website
sure as heck isn’t ...

~~~
trqx
Is it recursive day? This is what I get when I click on your link.

[https://tmp.shroom.party/joy.jpg](https://tmp.shroom.party/joy.jpg)

~~~
TeMPOraL
imgur seems to have this weird and annoying habit of detecting you're browsing
from a mobile device even on links direct to the image, and then redirecting
you to their site _and_ lowering quality of the image you're looking at. At
this point I just don't open imgur links when browsing from my phone.

~~~
Causality1
Imgur has become actively hostile to anyone who browses the mobile website
instead of using the app. They've spent years slowly pruning functionality out
of the mobile site and just recently announced that in August users won't be
able to log into the mobile site at all.

------
jakegold
There are many uses for podcasting for the classroom. They can be used to
convey instructional information from the teacher or trainer, motivational
stories, and auditory case studies. Podcasts can also be used by the learners
as artifacts and evidence of learning; for example, a student might prepare a
brief podcast as a summary of a concept in lieu of writing an essay. Podcasts
can also be used as a means of self-reflection on the learning processes or
products.[11] Podcasts can help keep students on the same page, including
those that are absent. Absent students can use podcasts to see class lectures,
daily activities, homework assignments, handouts, and more.[citation needed] A
review of literature that reports the use of audio podcasts in K-12 and higher
education found that individuals (1) use existing podcasts and/or (2) create
their own podcasts. Students can create their own podcast to share their
learning experiences with each other and also with other students from other
schools.

------
Causality1
There's usually a distinct change in tone when podcast hosts start keeping
"revenue stream" at, if not the front, at least the back of their mind. I'm
certain there are exceptions and I certainly don't begrudge anyone the desire
to make money, but at the same time there are no podcasts I listen to whose
best episodes weren't at the beginning of their run before the advertisers
came.

------
caser
Great post Tim! Crazy to see how far things have come since the Venture
Generation days :)

~~~
timoth3y
Thanks! It's amazing how fast things change.

------
danielscrubs
Reads way more humble then what the podcast name would suggest.

------
radcon
The title doesn't mention it, but this only applies to Japan where podcasting
isn't nearly as popular or economically viable as it is in other countries.

~~~
toyg
My view is actually the opposite - that this likely applies to _most_
countries except the ones with a large and established podcasting ecosystem,
of which I only know one (the US, with UK scene piggybacking on it).

------
dmje
Superb piece, really well written, and a great underlying story about personal
change. Brilliant.

------
kirillzubovsky
If you are looking for a TLDR, I've got it summarized here.

[https://smashnotes.com/p/disrupting-japan-startups-and-
innov...](https://smashnotes.com/p/disrupting-japan-startups-and-innovation-
in-japan/e/how-i-made-8-000-per-month-podcasting-and-why-you-probably-don-t-
want-to)

