
Lenovo announces laptops using new mobile Xeon processors - ChuckMcM
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo-announces-powerhouse-laptops-powered-by-new-mobile-xeon-processors/
======
chuckup
Lenovo is now using rootkit-like techniques to install their software on CLEAN
Windows installs, by having the BIOS overwrite windows system files on bootup.
Someone detailed this here:
[http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29497693&sid=dd...](http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29497693&sid=ddf3e32512932172454de515091db014#p29497693)

I had this happen to me a few weeks ago, on a new Lenovo laptop, doing a clean
install with a new SSD, Win 8 DVD + wifi turned off. I couldn't understand how
a Lenovo service was installed and running! Delete the file and it reappears
on reboot. I've never seen anything like this before.

Something to think about before buying Lenovo. I searched and found almost
nothing about this, so it may be something they started doing in the last few
months...

~~~
ilurk
This is getting increasingly disturbing with each new generation of hardware.

You no longer have the right to own the hardware you buy. Now it has become a
service subject to their terms.

That Windows Platform Binary Table sounds disturbing and is ripe for being
exploited.

Interesting info found [1]:

> Lenovo Service Engine (LSE) is a utility in the BIOS for certain Lenovo
> desktop systems. It automatically sends non-personally identifiable system
> data to a Lenovo server one time when the system is first connected to the
> internet and then does not send any additional data.

> The system data that LSE collected includes machine type and model, system
> UUID, region and date. No personally identifiable information is collected.

> Once this data is sent, the service is disabled automatically.

> LSE uses the Microsoft Windows Platform Binary Table (WPBT) capability.
> Microsoft has recently released updated security guidelines on how to best
> implement this feature. Lenovo’s use of LSE is not consistent with these
> guidelines and so Lenovo has stopped shipping desktop models with this
> utility and recommends customers with this utility enabled run a “clean up”
> utility that removes the LSE files from the desktop. Instructions on how to
> download and run this program are below.

> The LSE functionality has been removed from newly manufactured systems.

When some people insist on having a Libreboot/Coreboot supported laptop, they
call them crazy and idealistic. Now this is what happens.

It's just a shame that with Intel ME the Libreboot/Coreboot devs have given up
on Intel machines. I'm very interested in the Purism Librem laptop but I have
low hopes. Maybe the future will be ARM.

[1]
[https://support.lenovo.com/nz/en/product_security/lse_bios_d...](https://support.lenovo.com/nz/en/product_security/lse_bios_desktop)

~~~
cbd3
> It's just a shame that with Intel ME the Libreboot/Coreboot devs have given
> up on Intel machines. I'm very interested in the Purism Librem laptop but I
> have low hopes. Maybe the future will be ARM.

This isn't true. Libreboot is the fork that only works with completely free
platforms, which the newer Intel chipsets make impossible. Coreboot is still
very much committed to supporting new Intel chipsets, although the mainboard
availability of course depends on what developers have time and interest for.

Google Chromebooks all ship with Coreboot, so they're fully supported and a
great choice if you're trying to make the most free usable computer you can
get. They can all run Linux, and some of them even Windows with a little more
effort. They also have ARM-based ones, some of which are completely blob-free.

Also, if you're putting your hopes on Pursim this may be of interested to you:
[http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/08/09/the-truth-about-
pu...](http://blogs.coreboot.org/blog/2015/08/09/the-truth-about-purism-
behind-the-coreboot-scenes/)

------
4ad
Finally ECC memory in a laptop, I've wanted this for years!

However, I am seriously unimpressed by the maximum memory specifications.
64GB?! I had 32GB in my ThinkPad W510, which was released over _five_ years
ago.

I've also had 16GB in my _seven_ year old T400. 16GB was enough for me back
then, 64GB now is barely enough for me, it will certainly not be enough in a
few years, although by then maybe we'd get larger memory modules, which might
work just fine.

Since this is such a huge machine, they should have put more memory slots
inside.

I also hope they release a 13''-14'' machine with quad-core Xeon CPUs (or some
other CPUs that support ECC, some i7 chips do as well).

~~~
jmnicolas
What do you do on a laptop that requires more than 64 GB of RAM ?

~~~
dagw
I use more than 32 GB of RAM all the time for ad hoc data processing, analysis
and transformation and personally I'd like to be able to do the same work on
my laptop that I do on my workstation. Especially since I often divide my time
between a couple of different offices.

~~~
riquito
> I'd like to be able to do the same work on my laptop that I do on my
> workstation

I'm afraid you will never get what you want as long as you keep upgrading both
your laptop and your workstation.

~~~
dagw
I don't know. With this laptop I'd probably pretty much be there, assuming
this new mobile Xeon CPU can post numbers in the same ballpark as a desktop
Xeon from a year ago.

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kev009
The entire premise of modern computing is built around deterministic memory.
ECC in laptops very long overdue.

~~~
vardump
I'm very excited about ECC in laptops, and want to buy one as soon as
possible, but...

Shame it's released by a company which cannot be trusted anymore. I know the
bigger blunder (SuperFish) happened in consumer laptop, but all things
considered, I can't trust Lenovo any more. That means I won't buy anything
they make. I miss old Thinkpads.

Is there any serious laptop manufacturer left at all? A company that builds
good hardware, allows user replaceable battery / memory / disk, and doesn't
include any crapware, or things you can't disable (like secure boot, Lenovo
style hard disk file replacement, etc.).

~~~
Shengbo
Not really, I think we can say goodbye to user-replaceable hardware with the
rise of the Ultrabook form-factor. A couple of months ago I was looking for a
laptop to buy and I wasn't in a hurry so I checked out literally every
manufacturer I could find. In the end I defaulted to Macbook Pros. The
hardware is great and OS X doesn't really get in my way. If you want
customization and prefer matte screens, System76 is pretty neat but they
weren't available with the keyboard layout of my choice.

~~~
vardump
Yeah, also using a 2015 Macbook Pro. 256GB SSD is already full and 16 GB non-
ECC RAM is small and unreliable.

At least 2015 Macbook Pro 13" is pretty fast and light. I also love the
display. Wifi is pretty snappy, download speed from internet is over 250 Mbps,
which is enough for me.

I'll swap the internal SSD to 1 or 2 TB model once they become available.

~~~
Shengbo
Well, their SSD pricing is pretty ridiculous but other than that I've been
really happy with mine. Good keyboard, really nice screen, best trackpad I've
ever used. And the thing feels really sturdy compared to most laptops I've
tried.

~~~
vardump
Oh yeah, the trackpad is sweet! I don't understand why other manufacturers put
those crappads in their products, they're often borderline unusable.

Its ability to drive 4k monitor at 60Hz is also nice. I know it's not enough
for everyone, but 4k is all the resolution I'll ever need from a computer
display.

------
ChuckMcM
Ok, call me skeptical but I did not think Intel would get these out for Q4 of
2015. That 15" laptop is probably way over kill but it has some really nice
specs. I think what I really want though is one of these bad boys in the NUC
form factor.

~~~
jcr
I love seriously over-powered "luggables" and these machines might have
impressive specs, but there's a big problem; a lot of open source folks won't
buy NVIDIA gear due to the need for non-free binary-blob drivers. NVIDIA makes
some impressive products, but they seldom play well with others, and they seem
to have a real vendetta against supporting open source efforts by simply
providing the necessary documentation. With luck, other vendors will also
implement the mobile Xeon chips, but make a more friendly and compatible
decision about graphics hardware.

~~~
SamReidHughes
That's not a big problem, because most people aren't "open source" people. The
"open source" people won't even get wifi working. The real problem for Linux
users is that the Linux drivers aren't good, or don't support Optimus (do they
now?), and you get poor battery life or poor performance or you have to
manually do configuration just to get a basic working system.

~~~
vetinari
When did you see the Linux distribution like that? In 2000?

Specifically Thinkpad laptops are known to work out of the box with popular
Linux distributions.

~~~
SamReidHughes
The rule of thumb for Thinkpads and Linux is that you'll be fine as long as
you get an Intel wifi card (or some other known quantity) and integrated
graphics. For example, the NVS 4200M gpu hasn't really worked out of the box
for me even on Ubuntu on a T520, nor the Quadro 2000M on a W520, without
having to do some fiddling, or (later) knowing what specific packages to
install. Optimus or certain multi-monitor setups was a lost cause, so when you
do get it to work, the battery life hurts. (I've read things have improved
since a couple years ago.) Wifi drivers (such as Intel's) carry proprietary
blobs, which you have to install manually on Debian, but they work reliably --
that's only a problem for true open source radicals, or normal computer users
that were tricked into using Debian.

~~~
froward
I don't know whose rule you're referring to, but Atheros has always been far
more celebrated in terms of their support and openness towards Linux
consumers, appliances, etc. than Intel. They had such an impact on the Linux
world that Broadcom ended up opening its drivers as a result.

~~~
SamReidHughes
Thinkpads typically come with two kinds of configuration options, when it
comes to wifi: Intel, and "Thinkpad" wifi cards where you don't know what
you're going to get.

------
adulau
Could someone share the binary downloaded from
[http://download.lenovo.com/ideapad/windows/lsebios/win8_en-u...](http://download.lenovo.com/ideapad/windows/lsebios/win8_en-
us_32_oko.json) ? I'm curious the files are properly signed and if the LSE
tool is properly checking signature and so on.

------
bitL
If only they had a non-chiclet keyboard... I guess I have to wait till retro
ThinkPad :-(

~~~
creshal
That's very likely still going to have a chiclet keyboard – they didn't ask
for user preferences on it –, but it will at least have a proper seven-row
layout.

Personally, I don't mind the chiclets – the mechanic is the same as in the old
keyboards – as long as the layout gets fixed…

~~~
kawsper
Do you know if they are going to change the touchpad? I tried all the
touchpads on the current Thinkpad generation in a store, and I was so
disappointed that we chose to buy something else.

~~~
chao-
For me the biggest issue is the lack of discrete buttons for the touchpad. I
felt betrayed when Lenovo finally went the way of the "clickpad", which is the
only name I have heard for the style of touchpad where the whole pad's plane
depresses to click. I can't be the only one who:

1\. Doesn't like tap-to-click on touchpads.

2\. Prefers two discrete, easy-to-feel buttons over awkward clickable regions
in the bottom corners.

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DanielBMarkham
Being a bit of a bit-head, I love reading those specs.

Something caught my eye, though: "Screen options are 1920×1080 with optional
touch screen or a 3840×2160 non-touch screen"

Is there a reason for this? Is anybody doing quad-HD touch screens? I never
see them.

~~~
morsch
Yes. The excellent Dell XPS 13 (2015) is available with a quad-HD touch
screen. (In fact, it's either QHD touch, or FHD non-touch.)

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zx2c4
Finally, ECC memory on a laptop!

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merb
They should provide Linux support on these..

~~~
pwnna
They do! The product spec PDF show RHEL and Ubuntu as officially supported.

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jokoon
I just ordered yesterday and did a wire transfer for a thinkpad L450. Hope
thinkpads are not concerned by this.

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mtgx
AKA "lap-warmers".

~~~
Qwertious
Isn't that a cat?

