
Ask HN: Posture – what do you do during work to avoid back pain? - Donmario
Do you use any apps, products that help you stay healthy? Do you work out during work or take a lot of breaks?
======
redsymbol
Doing these two things has worked extremely well for me:

1) Doing deadlifts. This is a strength-training exercise:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AObAU-
EcYE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AObAU-EcYE)

2) Seeing a _good_ chiropractor about twice a month. (You might need to shop
around - I can elaborate on how to select a quality one if people want)

You asked about an app. I actually corrected my earlier posture and lower-back
problems using the above and not any kind of app to remind myself to get up
and move around; the above helped even though I routinely sat 1-2 hours at a
time, in a deep coding trance, without moving around. Recently, though, I
started using BreakTime (a macOS app) to remind me to look away from the
screen, mainly because I believe it's healthier for my eyes. This is a $5 app
I've been quite happy with.

All the above is in the anecdotal "works for me" category. Good luck in your
effort to find what works best for you!

Edit: The video link above gives a rough sense of the exercise, but the fine
details matter greatly, so if you decide to do it I highly recommend studying
the relevant chapter of this book:
[https://www.amazon.com/dp/0982522738/](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0982522738/)

Edit 2: More about chiropractors: Few are MDs; the ones I've worked with all
went through a 4-year, post-bachelors program. In my experience, chiropractors
fit on a spectrum, going from ambulance-chasing quacks to gifted, remarkably
effective healers. You want the latter. Only way to find out is to pay for
about 3 visits; if you and your body are consistently feeling better
physically and emotionally by then, you've found a good one. If not, stop, and
go find another. So far, the best I've found lean towards alternative medicine
(which was really surprising at first... I'm trained as a physicist, and was
REALLY skeptical.) Can't say that's a general rule though. Again, all this is
my experience; better to get your own experience and evaluate based on that,
instead of blindly deciding based on something you read online.

~~~
v64
Is your chiropractor an MD? I've been skeptical about chiropractors after
reading the Wikipedia entry on the practice [1]. As someone with back
problems, I've taken chiropractor recommendations from colleagues, and looking
into them, they were too alternative medicine for my taste.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic)

~~~
dhimes
At the very least, never let them touch your neck. A friend of mine had a
stroke and died after having a neck manipulation.
[http://chiropracticstroke.com/victims.johnhoffman.php](http://chiropracticstroke.com/victims.johnhoffman.php)

~~~
v64
Thanks for sharing this. I was surprised as well to learn that many
chiropractors aren't medical doctors.

------
mherrmann
What helped me most was to get an ergonomic chair and an external
monitor/keyboard/mouse. To avoid wrist pain, I recommend a split keyboard [1],
a vertical mouse [2] and an alternative keyboard layout [3].

[1]: [https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-
us/products/keyboar...](https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-
us/products/keyboards/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000/b2m-00012)

[2]: [https://evoluent.com/](https://evoluent.com/)

[3]:
[http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization](http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization)

~~~
nadezhda18
stretching your wrists and forearms (their inner sides) can also be a good
help in fighting this kind of pain (speaking from experience)

~~~
mherrmann
Yes. And Thera-Band exercises.

------
kejaed
I go lift heavy barbells in the gym. A strong back is a healthy back.

~~~
hmate9
As long as what you life is not _too_ heavy. Than it becomes very unhealthy.

~~~
yoz-y
If you can lift it with proper form, then it is not too heavy. But you
definitely need to watch out for that.

~~~
hmate9
Yes, proper form will be absolutely fine. But as the weight gets heavy for
you, keeping a great form will be very difficult. You see many weight lifting
olympians getting serious injuries.

------
threepipeproblm
As someone who has made huge progress on posture over a long period of time,
my first recommended steps for you would be:

1\. Watch the "Deskbound" Google Talk by Kelly Starett
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfg_e6YG37U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfg_e6YG37U)

2\. Read and do the exercises in _Awareness Through Movement_ by Moshe
Feldenkrais.

3\. Get into the habit of wiggling and shifting your body throughout the day.
And get into the habit of devoting regular time to being more conscious of
where your muscles are and how you are using them.

4\. Trigger Point Therapy is amazing for self-treating body pain, if you are
willing to experience short bursts of pain during the treatment.

~~~
andrei_says_
Ditto on the Feldenkrais method. Worked with a practitioner to resolve an RSI.

Rewrites how your body perceives itself and addresses the movement / freezing
habits which cause injuries.

------
saturdaysaint
I've had few/any complaints since strapping one of these to my cheapo office
chair (at the recommendation of a spine/back specialist):

[https://www.amazon.com/Original-McKenzie-Lumbar-Roll-
OPTP/dp...](https://www.amazon.com/Original-McKenzie-Lumbar-Roll-
OPTP/dp/B000H48WYA/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1475764233&sr=8-3&keywords=lumbar+back+roll)

The extra lumbar support is really comfortable, and it sort of subtly nudges
you to stay in a healthy position. Even when I'm completely unmindful of my
posture, it keeps a healthy arch in my back.

I also take a 20 - 30 minute walk at lunch several days a week.

~~~
robbyt
I agree. Get a good chair.

Years ago, I had to sit in one of those leather OfficeMax chairs. I developed
all sorts of back pain. I realized it was the chair when I changed jobs (and
chairs) and the back pain went away.

People have a lot of opinions about chairs, but I really like the Aeron chair.

~~~
throwanem
They're worth the price, even new. But if you poke around a little and don't
mind being less able to customize than the Herman Miller site makes possible,
you can probably find gently used castoffs for half retail price or less.

------
nadezhda18
everyday stretching + yoga for 15-20 min in the end of the day has eliminated
my backpain pretty much completely

I do not do anything special DURING the day except occasional (1-2 times a
week) yoga sessions for 30-40 min at lunch

I was surprised to see that so little exercise had such a big impact on my
well-being.

~~~
adamqureshi
Yes on the YOGA. I thought it was for girls. BUT THEN i took a yoga class, AND
"WOW". 1-2 times a week at the very least. Yoga works for real.

~~~
nadezhda18
the other good part is that after a while, your body gets used to it and you
kinda get addicted. If I skip my yoga sessions, I start craving for them.

~~~
adamqureshi
Yeah. So if i miss a week, my body craves it. I try to go every sat morning
and another night during the week. Your WHOLE body feels liberated! after a
yoga sessions.

------
jerelunruh
I added a function to my bash that forces me to do pushups every 30 minutes
(by turning off my monitor and keyboard).
[https://gist.github.com/jerel/1fc7686263c9427522f945f755e0a7...](https://gist.github.com/jerel/1fc7686263c9427522f945f755e0a724)
An hour after I start work in the morning a cron job reminds me to start a
terminal and run `work 8` (or however many pushups I want to do that day). I
do the pushups on my knuckles to avoid aggravating my wrists.

I also have a Kinesis Advantage keyboard, go to a good chiropractor, and do
cycling. All of which seems to contribute to a (nearly) pain free existence.

------
overcast
Exercise, and if you had to limit to just one thing. Pushups. They work your
whole body, especially core, and back. You can do them anywhere. I like to
take random breaks throughout the day, and just get down and do ten pushups.
Secondly, a good chair. Currently using the Herman Miller Embody, and love it.
Third, a good mattress. Just picked up a Saatva, and for $1000 delivered, it's
by FAR the best mattress I've ever had.

Pushups, and don't skimp on the two things you spend the majority of your day
in. Chairs and Beds.

------
PaulHoule
This book is the best one on the subject

[https://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Back-Robin-
McKenzie/dp/095...](https://www.amazon.com/Treat-Your-Back-Robin-
McKenzie/dp/0959774661)

The core idea is that most back pain is caused by the shortening of the
muscles in your back. "Posture" is not a productive way to think about it
because you don't have the flexibility to be in the correct posture. If you
try to improve your posture without addressing flexibility you will feel more
pain.

The exercises in that book will help, also try the "Cobra" position from yoga,
and also this exercise

[http://reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Practices/Grounding/...](http://reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Practices/Grounding/bow.html)

If you stand up and do the "bow" whenever you have back pain you will probably
feel better pretty quickly (1 to 2 weeks)

If you are popping NSAIDs or tylenol, also consider the antidepressant
Venlafaxine. It is often highly effective on chronic pain, particularly things
like back pain that definitely have a stress-related component.

------
mccada
I started getting chronic back pain last year after being in a desk position
for quite some time. I even considered switching jobs as I was that
uncomfortable sitting. Some things that have helped:

Movement. Try to get up and move around at least once every hour or so. Going
for a couple of 15 minute walks on breaks helps as well. It is the lack of
movement and tightening of muscles that causes most of the pain.

Decent Office Chair. The one I have can lean back quite far, and I find this
more comfortable. Try to change positions in your chair to keep your body
posture and muscles moving.

Chiropractor. When my back starts acting up more than usual I'll see a
chiropractor. This can help loosen up really tight joints and crack your spine
or ribs back into proper position.

I've heard both swimming and yoga can both work wonders as well, but have yet
to try these. Goodluck!

~~~
v64
Since you mention a chiropractor, can I ask you the same question as I did in
this comment [1]? Is your chiropractor an MD?

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12653040](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12653040)

~~~
mccada
I'm not sure if they use the same terminology in Canada, but the four
chiropractors at the place I go to all use Dr. and DC as their title, so I'm
guessing so.

------
woah
My posture improved and my occasional back pain went away entirely after I
added "roman chair"[1] to my exercise routine. This is a machine at the gym
where you lie on a pad a few feet off the floor and your legs are held in
place, and you raise your upper body by contracting your lower back. Reading
online now that it can be dangerous if you're too gung ho about it, so do it
without weights at first. There are also a lot of other lower back exercises
like deadlifts, etc, but this one works best for me.

I like dealing with this stuff through exercise because it avoids the
annoyance of having to remind myself to sit a certain way or buying special
chairs or desks.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_chair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_chair)

~~~
another_account
To add to this, the hyperextension you are describing can be done in reverse
too. There is a proper machine for it, called, unsurprisingly, the 'reverse
hyper' but they are rare.

Here are a couple of videos showing different ways to do it without the
machine

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef4noCz83A4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef4noCz83A4)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9_W--
eUcI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d9_W--eUcI)

As with the standard hyper. Start slow, good form without any weight.

Give it a try!

------
another_account
Stretch hamstrings, piriformis, possibly quad lumborum for lower back. Get up
every 15mins and give those poor hamstrings a break. Strengthen core, and not
no, not just abs! Shoulder and scapula work is needed for upper. Good posture,
no internal rotation. Shoulders back, pecs to the sky.

Myofascial release ball and or foam roll glutes, rhomboids and rotator cuffs a
lot.

Lifting regularly has really fixed my posture. Bar the odd injury due to bad
form and tight hamstrings. Work on core and mobility before starting to lift
heavy.

Seeing a physio every so often is worth its weight in gold. There are lots of
prehab things that can be done but its still worth seeing an expert. You only
get one body and it is not meant to sit all day.

~~~
Tharkun
Don't have the relevant links handy on my phone, but stretching hamstrings and
foam rolling glutes are frowned upon when you spend all day sitting.
Strengthening the glutes+abs and gently stretching the lower back+hip flexors
is a better idea. If you spend all day in a chair, your hamstrings might be a
bit tight, but they'll also be weak as hell.

Foam rolling is a bit controversial, because the direction matters and the
proper direction (to me) is non-intuitive.

A good physio is definitely a good idea. So is moving around as often as
possible.

~~~
another_account
Is that frowned upon possibly in people who have pelvic tilt from bad posture
sitting down? I know it can exacerbate some existing conditions. And yes, very
good point, un-trained hamstrings are going to be very weak.

Foam rollers and myofascial balls definitely have controversy around them!
But, anecdotal as it is, they work wonders for me and have been recommended by
every physio i have seen.

------
brendoncrawford
I have been working at a standup desk for about the last 10 years. To combat
fatigue, I add a walk around the room every 20 minutes. This system has mostly
eliminated all aches and pains for me.

------
adamqureshi
10 min PLANK. First thing in the AM. Then before Bed. On Elbows.

~~~
djkrudy
Ten minute static front plank? Video or it didn't happen. I've heard if you
can do 3min front and 3 min each side (on elbows) without rest or movement,
you'll never have back problems. I believe it, but I've never met or seen
anybody capable.

~~~
Tharkun
The world record is eight HOURS. Ten minutes is well within the realm of the
easily achievable.

Link: [http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/longest-
ti...](http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/longest-time-in-an-
abdominal-plank-position)

~~~
adamqureshi
Yeah! that chinese dude is straight gansta! LOL the marine before him is very
tough too.

------
debt
I recently made a lil app that tracks how long you've been sitting at a
computer using facial recognition. It's actually encouraged me to get up and
off my computer when I've been sitting for too long; I can see I've been
sitting in front the computer for like five hours. The time stops when you
walk away. Super helpful.

[http://overworked.io](http://overworked.io)

------
tugberkk
There is no "proper" sitting. The best thing you can do is to change your
sitting position like every 30 minutes or so. Of course, standing up and doing
some basic stretching would help too.

I am not recommending exercising for this specific reason, we should all be
exercising regardless :)

------
henrik_w
I am using MacBreakz [1] to remind me to take breaks and do some stretching
throughout the day. I have not any back pains, but had severe RSI several
years ago. A break program was the most important component to get better,
along with an ergonomic mouse and keyboard.

[1]
[http://www.publicspace.net/MacBreakZ/](http://www.publicspace.net/MacBreakZ/)

~~~
Donmario
What do you think of [http://www.curie.me/](http://www.curie.me/)?

------
jib
Work out in the morning every day (strength stuff with dumbbells as the gym in
the office doesnt have barbells).

I get up and walk around every couple of hours at least.

Slouch in the chair the rest of the time. Any time I've tried to sit according
to "recommendations" (i.e. more straight up), my back hurts. Slouching at a
135 degree angle means no back pain for me.

------
Overtonwindow
This may not work for everyone but I got one of those large rubber inflatable
balls like you see in gyms and put it in my office. I lay on it and stretch my
back. Also side note, check your shoes and chair. All of my back pain could be
traced to either my shoes, or my chair. Consider buying your own chair if you
have to.

------
clint
My team takes a scheduled break (its completely optional tho) at 3pm and we
get a conference room open up a google hangout for remotes and go around the
circle. Each person present picks a stretch and everyone tries it out. You get
about 5-10 good stretches over about 10-15 min and its a nice break from the
day.

------
BooneJS
My lower back pain all but vanished after we tried one of those foam mattress
startups (we chose Leesa). We bought one for my father a few months later, and
it worked for him as well.

It takes courage to throw away a 4 year old $3k mattress that required
special-order extra-deep fitted sheets. ;)

------
andrei_says_
Standing + adjustable standing desk do I can sit or stand.

Moving my feet - "fidgeting" to avoid frozen body patterns. Taking frequent
breaks and rigorous walks at the advise of my father who is a cardiovascular
surgeon.

------
shiny
I use a Humanscale Freedom chair w/ headrest.

[http://www.humanscale.com/products/product.cfm?group=Freedom...](http://www.humanscale.com/products/product.cfm?group=FreedomTaskChairWithHeadrest)

------
mwidell
Try this exercise:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT_dFRnmdGs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT_dFRnmdGs)

I've been doing it for a few days now and it is quick, easy and seems to help.

------
Taylor_OD
I elevated my laptop with a 2ish inch folder holder. It's saved my neck from
bending as much. The trade off is that my hands have to be elevated to type
which might not work if you are typing extensively during the day.

------
polskibus
At least 10 min daily exercise for the back. Push ups, rolling on the back,
back and forth while keeping your knees close to your chest, etc. The
essential bit here is _daily_ . Use alarm or sth to remember, never skip it.

------
e19293001
I've read somewhere that Donald Knuth had suffered back pain. His doctor
adviced him to swim three or four times a week and he eventually confirmed
that swimming is an effective excercise to cure and avoid backpain.

~~~
cableshaft
Makes sense. When I had bad back pain I only really felt comfortable standing
while in a pool, thanks to its buoyancy effect. I'd get out and almost
immediately have back pain again. Thankfully I don't have that problem
anymore.

------
1123581321
Standing at work and losing weight have eliminated my back pain.

~~~
dereke
+1 for standing, it is hard work but does make you feel better. on the
occasions I am in an office without a standing desk I find I have all sorts of
aches and pains

~~~
demosthenex
I'm considering a treadmill desk. Any thoughts?

------
dminor
Sit/stand desk, stretching.

~~~
Tharkun
Got any tips on convincing my employer to OK a sit/stand desk? Not allowed to
bring in my own desk, sadly:-(

~~~
dminor
Get a better employer? :)

More seriously, having a note from your doctor might help. When I was having
back pain I saw a physiatrist, who recommended a sit/stand desk and physical
therapy (both effective), and I asked for a note for the desk which she
happily supplied.

