
Dean Karnazes: the man who can run for ever - pg
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/aug/30/dean-karnazes-man-run-forever
======
ramblerman
"but in his entire life he has never experienced any form of muscle burn or
cramp"

Having read his book "Ultramarathon man" recently. I grabbed it and here are
some quotes:

"My legs throbbing and cramped" ... "Then without warning the quadriceps and
calf muscles of both muscles seized in wicked cramps" ... "The cramps were
still so severe that..."

I'm gonna stop there, but ctrl-f finds at least 10 more references.

Really shows how far these pseudo-journalists go for a story. The rest of the
portrayal of him being some super human is also completely in opposition with
his biography.

~~~
JPKab
As is typical, he is portrayed as being a genetic freak, someone capable of
things nobody else ever could aspire to.

It actually takes away from him. The reality is that many, many people WOULD
be capable, if they displayed the level of dedication that he does.

~~~
slipperyp
Many, many people _are_ and do it all the time right now, every day. There was
a video where Scott Jurek talked candidly about Dean a while ago - it was
great. The site took it down (or the site is down?) but in a nutshell, Jurek
was very super critical of Dean because Dean for goes around like the
ambassador and greatest ever athlete in ultrarunning when he's never been one
of the top 10. Dean's a pretty great athlete - there's no question about that.
But he's only a fraction of the god that he thinks he is or that the media
empire he's built around himself makes him out to be.

(for background: Scott Jurek is definitely one of the top ultrarunners of the
current generation)

~~~
bfe
"...when he's never been one of the top 10."

Not correct. He has won the Badwater 135 Mile and the Vermont 100 Mile ultras,
and has come in fourth place in the Western States 100 Mile (iirc).

Jurek has a more impressive record than Karno as an ultra runner, and a
history of being negative about not being as well known as Karno. Karno is a
great runner who also wrote a great book and got a lot of people to read it
and has a history of being positive and encouraging about everyone running.

Edited to add references:

First place at Badwater 135 Mile, 2004:
[http://www.badwater.com/results/index.html](http://www.badwater.com/results/index.html)

First place at Vermont 100 Mile, 2006:
[http://vermont100.com/html/2006_results.html](http://vermont100.com/html/2006_results.html)

Fourth place at Western States 100 Mile, 2003:
[http://www.wser.org/results/2003-results/](http://www.wser.org/results/2003-results/)

~~~
Retric
Athletes are generally not ranked on the performance in individual events. Aka
after wimbledon the #1 men's tennis player is rarely the guy that just won.
Simply because individual events are to random and often based around who
shows up, what the weather was like etc.

PS: [http://xkcd.com/852/](http://xkcd.com/852/)

------
mipapage
There are lots of people who can do what he does; I'm curious how and/or why
he gets this kind of press or seems to be the more mainstream example.

Ray Zahab [1], Lizzy Hawker [2], Kilian Jornet, Anton Krupicka and countless
other well known (in running circles) and lesser known people (your neighbor)
have run just as long or longer and often faster...

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Zahab](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Zahab)

[2] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-
life/10087146/Lizzy-...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-
life/10087146/Lizzy-Hawker-Somewhere-it-just-became-normal-to-run-14-hours-a-
day.html)

~~~
csmeder
In the wired article he gives some advice:

"10\. PROMOTE THE HELL OUT OF YOURSELF Before he became Superman, Karnazes was
the Clark Kent of the PR world: a humdrum marketing executive at a
pharmaceutical company. But in the past three years, he's published a memoir,
nabbed a sponsorship from the North Face, appeared on Late Show With David
Letterman, and gotten himself on the cover of a handful of magazines. The book
and the North Face contract generate enough money to support his family, and
the high profile translates into maximum motivation: Failure is scarier when
the family income is on the line."

\-
[http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html)

~~~
mipapage
Its interesting that he is sponsored by tNF, but doesn't seem to run their
prime Ultra races, UTMF, UTMB... Perhaps he does San Fran?

------
feral
I've done a few long endurance events, though never at elite level. That
article left me confused.

Aren't most people doing ultra endurance sports performing well below their
lactate threshold? As such, its not our lactate threshold that tends to stop
us 'going forever'. Once our LT is above a certain point, our limiting factor
will something else, such as muscle endurance.

If his unique feature is that he doesn't have a lactate threshold, wouldn't
that mean he'd be an ideal sprinter, or middle distance, because he'd be able
to go all-out without cramping, rather than an ideal endurance athlete?

~~~
bluedino
>> If his unique feature is that he doesn't have a lactate threshold, wouldn't
that mean he'd be an ideal sprinter

They never said he was fast

~~~
daleharvey
If you can sprint slowly for 1600m, you will do pretty well.

~~~
recursive
"sprint slowly"

I must not understand what sprinting is.

------
becauseracecar
Reading about ultrarunners is quite fascinating. The angle of the story which
is that Dean Karnazes has some kind of magical DNA which lets him do these
things effortlessly definitely seems like a misrepresentation.

These guys are amazing athletes but they experience fear and doubt just like
everyone else, and don't run these distances effortlessly. Imagine the
discipline required to push yourself to your limits for hours or days at a
time.

That it is such a taxing endeavor both physically and mentally is what makes
it all the more incredible. One of my favorite stories about ultrarunners is
the time Scott Jurek ran the Badwater Ultramarathon for the first time.

There were a bunch of reasons it was objectively a terrible idea. Half way
through he collapsed vomited and seriously considered giving up. He managed to
keep going though and made up a ton of time in the second half of the race and
ended up winning and set a course record despite being behind at the half way
point: [http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Seattle-man-
amazes-e...](http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/Seattle-man-amazes-
everyone-in-135-mile-1178926.php)

~~~
fsckin
You reminded me of Cliff Young [0] who won an ultramarathon (544 miles) at the
age of 61 in 1983 by not sleeping... it's a tortoise vs hare story tale come
true.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_(athlete)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_\(athlete\))

------
iandanforth
While cool, the article left me wanting more _science._ It suggests that a
highly alkaline diet might be related to his performance?! Low body fat? A
significant difference in gene expression due to childhood activity?

All of those are topics that I'd love to read about, but the article is very
light on details.

~~~
mathattack
The article sent me searching for real science. He's a phenom but if he
doesn't get tired why isn't he an Olympian?

~~~
tantalor
Because he's 51?

~~~
mathattack
How about in his 30s then?

------
revelation
That article is one big landmine for people without the scientific background.

 _Genetics can give you the propensity for a natural advantage but you express
your genes differently depending on your environment and your lifestyle._

 _Years of training will improve both your enzymes and mitochondria_

I also thought the lactate buildup comes from _anaerobic_ exercise, which is
not what any long-range runner relies on anyway.

(I wonder how you replenish electrolytes, not to mention _energy storage_ , on
a multi-day run without eventually getting stomach cramps and other GI issues?
From the picture, he already has very little body fat)

~~~
lutusp
> That article is one big landmine for people without the scientific
> background.

I would have said quagmire, but yes.

------
nhangen
I love this guy. I can't vouch for his moral character, but I do know that
reading his book launched me into a running frenzy that changed my life. I've
been running 2-3x/week since, and don't plan on stopping.

------
beatboxrevival
You see a lot of articles with Dean in them that make him out to be some sort
of human anomaly. In all fairness, he's had some great achievements, but he's
far from an elite ultramarathoner. Most people can run the distances that he
does with the right training. If there was a real "ultramarathon man" it's
probably Yiannis Kouros. He holds almost every record over 24 hours.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiannis_Kouros](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiannis_Kouros)

------
grannyg00se
"I've run through three nights without sleep and the third night of sleepless
running was a bit psychotic. I actually experienced bouts of 'sleep running',
where I was falling asleep while in motion, and I just willed myself to keep
going."

That sounds quite dangerous. Not only mentally, but I'd be concerned of a
sudden lapse of physical control and smashing my skull onto the pavement. Then
again, I'd never have to worry about that because I don't have that level of
extreme determination. Very impressive.

~~~
steverb
I've experienced sleep running while in the military during training
exercises. In one they kept us going for a week on minimal sleep (four hours
of "rest" out of every twenty-four). On day four I fell asleep while running
in formation at night and woke up 5 or so hours later as I was being roused
for my guard rotation.

My "battle buddy" said I didn't behave any differently than usual, just quiet.
All told, I blacked out for about a half-hour. My experience wasn't uncommon,
I'd say about 10% of us experienced something similar during that particular
exercise. The human body is an amazing machine.

------
VikingCoder
I'm one of the few that REALLY liked the movie Unbreakable.

This guy reminds me of that movie.

And if so, then I am his Mr. Glass. I pretty much hit my threshold for running
when I finish tying my running shoes' laces.

------
waffle_ss
Reminds me a bit of Diane Van Deren, who became an ultra-runner after having
brain surgery that disrupted her ability to judge the passing of time:
[http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-
blog/2011/apr/05/in-r...](http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-
blog/2011/apr/05/in-running/)

------
dylangs1030
> _Next, they performed a lactate threshold test. They said the test would
> take 15 minutes, tops. Finally, after an hour, they stopped the test. They
> said they 'd never seen anything like this before."_

I'm not a biologist, but that seems like a bad reason to stop. He cleared an
hour on the test. Why not maintain the test for several hours? Four times the
theoretical maximum is not "forever"...

This article seems highly sensational. I'd like to see more science behind
this.

------
mathattack
Fascinating story. Of course the Wired version of the story is a little more
sensational. There he does the 30 miles for his 30th birthday drunk in his
skivvies.

[http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/ultraman.html)

------
bfe
Karno's first book changed my life. After reading the first couple chapters, I
had to put it down to go outside and go running that minute. I was soon doing
marathons and ultramarathons, and I am still setting new personal records. To
put his book into three words: determination equals fun.

------
oskarth
My favourite ultrarunner is Yiannis Kouros. Look him up. He uses Greek epics
to motivate him when he's running. His attitude boils down to: mind over
matter. No genetic freak or such bullshit. Willpower and love.

------
carsonreinke
Was on this: [http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees-
superhumans/episodes](http://www.history.com/shows/stan-lees-
superhumans/episodes)

------
bluedino
Could he do something like 20,000 pushups in a row as well?

------
bitwize
This guy is a candidate for _Stan Lee 's Superhumans_. That's an honest-to-
goodness mutant power right there.

EDIT: I see he's already been on that show.

------
programminggeek
Shouldn't it be forever and not for ever?

~~~
gaustin
"for ever" is consistent with British English usage. It's a UK site.

Edited to add: Sure it's on the "US" section of the Guardian but they don't
appear to change any other spellings to match US English.

------
gcb0
What the urss failed to accomplish with highly studied hormones and drugs,
California managed by accident with all the pollution in the air and water

