
Allowing voting down of YC comments leads to group-think, Nazi-ism and suppressing of unpopular points of view. Do you agree? - juwo

======
Goladus
I agree, the downmodding of Juwo is a bit out of hand. He shamelessly self-
promotes and seems to have some difficulty communicating sometimes, and many
of his downmods are probably earned. But it seems overboard to me. It really
feels like people are singling him out to evaluate bad comments, in cases
where other posters' bad comments would just be ignored. He is getting an
unfair level of attention.

It's not like he's a slashdot-digg swarm drowning out reasonable discussion.
He's enthusiastic, respects this community a lot, and the site won't
particularly be any better if he leaves.

It seems to me a lot like the cool kids not letting Juwo sit at their table.

<http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_79.php>

<http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html>

~~~
Sam_Odio
Agreed, I've personally been in Juwo's position too many times to count. As
entrepreneurs, I'm would guess we've all had that experience where we've been
labeled outsiders, ridiculed and "written off."

I've even developed a saying: "When they call you crazy, you're either
extraordinarily stupid or extraordinarily smart. You can only hope for the
latter."

~~~
juwo
I am definitely not "extraordinarily smart", So perhaps by your saying, I am
"extraordinarily stupid"!

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far33d
Nazi-ism? Congratulations, you've just godwin'd YC News.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law>

~~~
papersmith
Nice one. This law seems to also stretch quite far beyond the internet.

~~~
juwo
see <http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=16631>

------
veritas
dramatic much? I haven't seen unpopular viewpoints voted down on YCNews yet,
and perhaps your comment(s) were voted down because of reasons other than just
being an unpopular point of view.

Lastly, using sensationalist terms like "Nazi-ism" and "klansman" detract from
any point you're trying to make and equating (or attempting to) any members of
YCNews with such terms is beyond ridiculous to put it nicely.

~~~
juwo
<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=16631>

------
gyro_robo
Funny you should bring that up! Today when I was jogging I realized your
chosen project name sounds like an antisemitic breakfast beverage: Jew-O, for
Nazi astronauts. Cf. The Toyota Incubus (there's a story floating around about
a product named Incubus which had to be recalled at the last minute. The
culprit is alternately either Toyota, Nike, or Reebok).

~~~
juwo
that is funny!

juwo used to stand for "Julie's World", a 6 year old orphan in Mother
Theresa's orphanage in Bangalore, India.

see <http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=16631>

~~~
gyro_robo
_I_ don't personally have a problem with the name, just pointing out that
other people might not react to it so well. Sometimes they can't quite put
their finger on it but they know the name makes them uneasy for some reason...

Also not recommended:

Snigger.com for a joke site

------
gyro_robo
We're just a bunch of people who want to do a start-up so we don't have to
slave away for The Man. We're not, like, Gandhi, you know.

------
Tichy
It's an opportunity to learn a lesson: people in general are mean, or at least
they are often different from you. While it can be frustrating, maybe it's
better to know the truth than to live on in an illusion. Especially as an
entrepreneur you have to harden against rejection, because you will face a lot
of it. In general, nobody will understand you - otherwise, somebody else would
already have done the thing you are going to do.

Overall the whole karma thing is a bit weird, as I realized yesterday when I
submitted the link to Steve Jobs speech in Stanford. I found the speech really
touching and felt somehow bad for getting karma for his achievement - as if I
am leeching karma. Probably karma is an unlimited resource in the universe
(and especially in a LISP application, as the integer type doesn't seem to
have a limit in LISP) and it doesn't quite work in that way (to gain karma,
you don't need to steal it from someone else). But still...

~~~
staunch
_"...felt somehow bad for getting karma for his achievement..."_

You're getting YCNews points (karma) for giving us a link to good content, not
for the content itself. And of course it's not like they mean much or there's
a limited supply.

------
staunch
Juwo: You're clearly hurt by the feedback you got from your announcement. You
were brave to put yourself out there and solicit feedback, it was very
respectable and ballsy. But you did a very poor job of accepting the _honest_
criticism (that _you_ solicited) gracefully.

Your outbursts are disruptive and you shouldn't be surprised that people don't
enjoy being disrupted. For example: Did you really need to call Livingston a
thief? How does that relate to startups -- even if it was remotely true?

Please just stop the bitterness and the lashing out. Put that energy into your
product, where it belongs. This is a place of learning, not politics and
grudges.

~~~
juwo
"you did a very poor job of accepting the honest criticism"

I think you are completely mistaken! I love honest criticism - that way, I
learn. Can you please tell me where I did not accept the honest criticism?

I never called Livingston a thief. Can you point out where?

1)

------
juwo
I lost 30 points in three and a half days. When I look at the fate of my last
comment, I realize what's going on

<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15510>

Not that I care too much. These karma points make monkeys in a cage scrambling
for peanuts look more intelligent than us (future blog material for me!).

~~~
jward
I really like the fact that comments count for something here. In fact I'd be
happy if posts counted for nothing and only comments did. It promotes and
rewards discussion, which is what I come here for. Articles are good and all,
but the real value of this site is in its users.

I like to believe that the majority of people are like myself and vote up or
down on things for the same reasons. Disagreeing with opinions never enters
into my mind as a reason to vote down. I vote comments down when they are
highly off topic, rude, or personal attacks. I use this in hopes that it sets
the tone for YC News. That is, as a place for mature discussion and education
about startups, not one where kittens with pancakes on their heads or flamers
with four letter vocabularies are welcome.

To be blunt and honest, it is the content of your comments that is causing
them to be voted down. The comment in specific that you linked to came across
as a personal attack and quite rude. I'm sure this was not your intent, but
that's how it came across. This comment you posted referring to members of the
community as monkeys also comes across as rude. You may have valid points and
questions, but you need to find better ways of saying them. When you attack
the people rather than the idea, it doesn't reflect well.

~~~
juwo
personal attack? rubbish!

To say my comment was "quite rude" baffles me.

I was directly commenting on something she said in the video. Would you
disallow that?

"referring to members of the community as monkeys"

Where was that?? Do you not understand my point?

\-------------------

Actually it sounded like a confession and she said 'stealing'. If they are
there for her to take, why hide them in her purse? I am not faulting her at
all for 'taking' the granola bars. I am certain, I might have done the same as
her - but I am unrich and I would have taken them openly, in full view and so
I might be justified - I think.

My comment was solely a wonderment, an observation, that a wealthy millionaire
needed to do that.

I must be the worst communicator - judging from my product (juwo).

Seriously, can you look beyond what was an unpopular comment? I was trying to
understand why an intellectual and financial millionaire from the cream of
society did that.

Do millionaires behave differently, or do they stay the same? Or worse?

~~~
omouse
See my reply here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15593>

------
rms
One thing I like about YC News is that it's rare for comments to get voted
down, whereas on reddit and digg it happens like crazy.

Oddly enough, it seems like juwo is the only community member that gets voted
down a lot. I'm not sure what that says. It takes a lot for me to vote a
comment down and I don't think juwo really deserves it.

~~~
joshwa
juwo gets downmodded because he posts comments on nearly _every_ article, and
his posts are frequently off-kilter or ill-considered. As he says himself, he
"must be the worst communicator"
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=15510> )-- e.g., witness the really
inappropriate Nazi reference in the title to this thread.

Sometimes I find myself wondering if this reflects a major cultural difference
he's just not grasping fully? Or just a strange variation on John Gabriel's
Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (the "Mahir Corollary?")?

~~~
dfranke
What is the Mahir Corollary? Google doesn't seem to know...

~~~
joshwa
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahir>

I just coined it.

------
brett
No.

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dejb
What a ridiculous proposition! I disagree strongly! I'm going to vote this
article down...

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omouse
I vote up the submission that asks for voting down of submissions.

