
The end of Schengen - johnchristopher
http://www.politico.eu/article/the-end-of-schengen-germany-border-controls-austria-check-points-temporary/
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bwindels
I see Germany's move to reinstate border controls as a way to pressure Hungary
and to some extent Slovakia to agree to a quota spread of refugees. I think
the german electorate would be easier to convince if they have a feeling all
EU-members are pulling their weight.

Hungary has responded with policies (detaining refugees, also working on laws
to allow police violence against illegal border crossings) that are likely not
compatible with international law and I can imagine a EU court will convict
them in a few months. Unfortunately, the refugees will be the victim of this
in the meantime.

Also, I find the article overly dramatic, stating that "Free movement around
26 countries for 400 million Europeans is now seriously threatened.". Schengen
has very little to do with the free movement of EU citizens, this was arranged
by the Treaty of Maastricht and others.

I do agree though that this is further evidence that solid european
integration is still a far away dream and for now national interests take the
lead when the shit hits the fan.

~~~
aries1980
> Hungary has responded with policies (detaining refugees, also working on
> laws to allow police violence against illegal border crossings) that are
> likely not compatible with international law and I can imagine a EU court
> will convict them in a few months. Unfortunately, the refugees will be the
> victim of this in the meantime.

The issue here is hard to define who refugee and who is not. There are offices
at the major border towns where refugees can register. They show their paper,
give fingerprint (which is mandatory for Hungarian citizens as well to receive
a passport). The issue is as a British (ITV) reporter tweeted:
[https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/639703633794351104](https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/639703633794351104)
is some of the refugees are "interested in" wealthy countries only, so they
refuse to register in Hungary. There are laws and international agreements
that binds the border countries to behave like Hungary.

Also "police violence" means you are referring to is the European way of
police violence: web and in worst case tear gas and water cannon.

~~~
pas
police violence means using that nasty steel baton that is absolutely not part
of the official police toolkit:
[http://40.media.tumblr.com/e19f9630bcbbb5699b4d3f1c23308a57/...](http://40.media.tumblr.com/e19f9630bcbbb5699b4d3f1c23308a57/tumblr_nutguyPf9D1qauqxso1_1280.jpg)

the migrant vs refugee issue is moot. anyone can clam to be from Syria or
Afghanistan. the problem is - again - simple economics, or how to hillclimb
from this local optimum to a globally higher one?

currently people living in the million-populated refugee camps in Turkey are
not allowed to work (as it would likely crash the local labor market). so we
have a completely devastated economy (thanks to a long drought driving farmers
out of work and subsequently into the cities where authorities harshly
responded when these people voiced their problems, and bamm! you have a civil
war, which is bad for business), and a lot of unemployment with extreme
mobility/flexibility (after all, why would they stay in a war zone? so their
preferences are driven to the extremes, which means they are not picky - see
the people going through countless bags of small pepper and clean them of that
small stem part that remains on them after picking from the field)

distributing the people (the proposed quota system) will probably help, and
the migrants-refugees will at least participate in a more efficient economy,
so if I want to be really deadpan and cold-hearted I can just state that
globally things are going to be better, we just have to ride this temporary
setback through while Assad & Co. goes through their bankruptcy process with
their lenders (the people).

~~~
aries1980
That image is about anti-terrorist officer (TEK), and baton is their regular
sidearm. I guess they will be there until the regular army and the newly
formed frontier companies arrive.

~~~
pas
I just looked up the relevant ordinance/statue, and it only describes a
"police stick" without going into details.

Their regular sidearm is not the expandable steel one. (They usually carry
submachineguns, after all, they are usually targeting armed criminals, not a
mass of people trying to force their way through a border crossing.)

Naturally, the problem is not the intent, but the incompetence of the
execution.

------
riffraff
> Many Europeans look enviously at Britain and Ireland, which were granted
> opt-outs when the treaty was signed, and still retain full border
> inspections — with some notable success in stopping terrorists and catching
> illegal immigrants.

I don't see the "notable success" as being substantiated. What does this refer
to?

~~~
johnchristopher
It probably refers to the neutralized terrorist threat they can't tell us more
about because that would give out details and crucial information on what they
know of the `enemy'.

------
Silhouette
_Many Europeans look enviously at Britain and Ireland, which were granted opt-
outs when the treaty was signed, and still retain full border inspections —
with some notable success in stopping terrorists and catching illegal
immigrants._

Meanwhile, some of us in Britain look enviously at the rest of Europe, where
international travel, particularly by train, is altogether more efficient and
friendly than it is to leave or re-enter our own country.

I also can't help noticing that those notable successes were apparently so
noteworthy that the author felt no need to note any specifics that would
identify them.

------
fukusa
Why do they have to call it a human tsunami? It's very disrespectful to the
people fleeing from war zones.

~~~
grp
In 1992 (3 years before Schengen) there was just 15 states in UE and 672'000
migrants. Last year, 626'000 migrants for 28 states.

Yes, 23 y.o. tsunami really exists!

------
raverbashing
The UK and Ireland were given a waiver mainly because of their geographical
situation (and there is a similar agreement beween them, the Common Travel
Area)

------
generic_user
Schengen was conceived by the post WW2 generation, perhaps the most materially
wealthy in history who view free trade radicalism through rose colored
glasses. Like almost all policy they have conceived it is hopelessly romantic
and self serving. They have the economic position to capture the gains from
exportation of skilled labor to third world countries which increase dividends
and form importation of third world immigrants to lower domestic wages.

If the Western world is to retain any semblance of an enlightened reasoned and
prosperous set of nations free trade policy including free movement will have
to be revised to ensure economic and social stability for the citizenry as a
priority. Unless this is done civil unrest and division will only continue to
grow as more and more people are thrown under the bus in a race to the bottom
system.

Importing a permanent underclass provides the perfect scapegoat for civil
unrest to deflect attention away from trade policy which is designed to
benefit only the top few percent of the income and skills pyramid.

------
PaulHoule
The Germans have been highly unwise to throw Greece under the bus. Greece is
positioned to be a bulwark against ISIS, Russia and a whole lot of other
trouble and a strong Greece aligned with the west is key.

~~~
johnchristopher
Aren't such thing mainly NATO matters and funding ? Europe defense is only at
the embryo stage today.

