

Ask HN: Approaching day job's customers about startup? - k123

I'm posting this from a fresh account, hope that's OK. I've been a HN member for 2+ years.<p>I'm in a situation that I hope some of you have been in as well. I have a day job but spend nights and weekends building out different ideas.<p>I've identified a need from my work at the day job, but it's not the company I work for that experiences the pain I'd want to solve, but some of the customers.<p>Now, my question is: what would you think about me approaching my day job's customers about being beta customers for my new app? Is it unethical, business-wise?<p>I wouldn't be competing with my day job, as this is a new offering that they don't have, but I would be using the fact that the customers know me from working with me at company X to sell them on idea Y, while still being employed by X.
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swombat
Yes, it would be unethical. Simply put yourself in the shoes of your employer
- what would you think if you were in their place? You've used the detailed
business knowledge you gained through their business to develop a product that
competes in the same space (it doesn't matter if it's not a direct competitor
- it might be part of their future development plans). And now you're going to
also use the contacts you made through your job with them to sell your new
product!?

Of course they'll think it unethical. I think the only way to do this
ethically would be to leave your employment and either go full-time on your
new product, or do some freelancing in your current industry to support
yourself, or find employment in a different industry before you start
approaching potential customers. I'd go for the second option, myself, if you
can.

~~~
k123
Thanks for the reply. It might just come to that, although like we discussed
on #startups, I don't think there is an ethical difference since I will be
using knowledge and contacts gained through my employment anyway.

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hga
I think it really comes down to the degree in which your idea competes or
potentially does so with the company you are currently work for.

If it's _completely_ unrelated ... to come up with something wild off the top
of my head, say you've noticed something that could improve the landscaping
you see as you go to the targets' front door, and your company sells business
software of some sort, sure, go for it with care and the points that _delirium
made.

But if it's something you could suggest to the company you're working that
they add to their lineup, then you really need to separate from it before
pursuing this. And states have very strong and enforceable laws about using
the customer lists of your old company (note this doesn't have to be codified
in your employment agreement), I'd consult a law library and lawyer for that.
And of course if you live outside of California you may have to wait a year or
two for a non-compete to expire.

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_delirium
What kind of customers are we talking about? I think it's more likely to run
into trouble if the customers are themselves large companies. If the customers
are small---individuals or mom-and-pop restaurants or something---it's
probably easier to reuse the contacts. That's just a guess, though. The
current company would probably not be happy about it either way (though that's
not necessarily determinative, because companies are unhappy about anything
that remotely smells like competition, regardless of whether it's ethical or
not).

------
dkersten
As far as I know, many employment contracts specifically disallow the use of
the employers clients regardless of if you compete or not - but I'd check your
contract with your current employer.

~~~
hga
And get some legal advice. Just because they put it in a contract doesn't mean
the provision is enforceable.

Lots of things employers try in this area are held to be against public policy
(e.g. you can't sign away your right to be employed by anyone or to be
employed in your general field of e.g. programming). Other restrictions are
held to be over broad, i.e. duration and territory stuff, but that would
generally take a court case to hash out.

The contract must also be a real contract, e.g. there must be consideration on
both sides. Signing one when you get a new job is OK, your consideration is
the new job. Being presented one after you're hired with a "sign it or lose
your job" is _not_ , they've got to give you something in return.

~~~
dkersten
Some good points! Thanks for pointing them out.

