
The Death of Adulthood in American Culture - L_Rahman
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/magazine/the-death-of-adulthood-in-american-culture.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0
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ojbyrne
"Noting that nearly a third of Y.A. books were purchased by readers ages 30 to
44 (most of them presumably without teenage children of their own), Graham
insisted that such grown-ups “should feel embarrassed about reading literature
for children.”"

When I was a kid adults read lots of books that were very pulpy, low-brow,
"genre" kinds of books - mysteries, westerns, etc. I don't see how Y.A. books
are in any way a step back from those books.

~~~
eplanit
I agree that it's not necessarily a step backwards in the sense of quality of
writing or plot, but I do think the subject matter makes a difference. The
detective stories, espionage tales, or even the Harlequin Romance novels were
different in that although certainly pulpy and low-brow, the characters were
_adults_ facing (moreless) adult situations...not wizards, demons, and
dragons.

~~~
hhm
How is that different? There is a lot of "serious / adult" literature that
includes wizards, demons, and dragons, and that is not a recent development.
(Or in older times, ghosts, spirits, and monsters in general).

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AngrySkillzz
I'm pretty sure adulthood has always just been a bunch of people pretending
that they know what they're doing, and being able to convince everyone else
(peers, children) of it as well.

~~~
CamperBob2
That might not make you a "man," but it will at least get you a job at the New
York Times.

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bkeroack
I would not expect the average HN reader (foosball-playing, video gamer, etc)
to agree with this.

Sometimes I think tech is the epicenter of the "permanent adolescence"
phenomena.

~~~
xnull
Given that the tech sector celebrates having fireman poles instead of stairs,
colored ball pits, giant bean bags for chairs and webcomics as regular
features in slideshows and the revealing contents of 'intership swag' posted
to reddit from various tech companies (NERF guns, USB turrets, etc) - I would
tend to agree.

Beyond that, the tech sector is made up of exactly the sort of Louie character
described in the article. Mostly pale pasty males that feel obligated to sex
with women more attractive than them. Boyish-men that try to out-novelty one
other and whose boyish hobby (computers) just happens to be something that
makes a _lot of money_ - it's like if we discovered that LEGO construction
somehow helped corporate bottom lines. A culture that buys into the myth that
computer pioneers,serious and careful mathematicians and technicians all, were
'geniuses' rather than driven and hard workers and that they, by knowing how
to code in Python and Angular, are somehow too in that rank of elite men.

The tech industry celebrates adolescence and arrested development. It claims
with a straight face it has engineers and is doing engineering, but just look
at the difference in ethical standards and responsibility Software Engineering
has compared to, say, Civil Engineering or Architecture. Software Engineers
have no licensure. If your software kills someone (Therac-25, Great Northeast
Blackout) or causes widespread instability (Black Monday, Flash Crash) or has
ethically questionable goals, where are the repercussions? As a tech industry
member you are shielded from your own ignorance, laziness, and carelessness.
(Sure we build software faster. We could build bridges faster without
licensure and regulations as well).

~~~
cafard
Cullen Murphy and one other writer from The Atlantic wrote a book (unless it
was just an article) about the notion of "neoteny", the preservation of
juvenile characteristics into a mature age. They noted that among North
American wildlife the tendency increased as the animals were further from
their (presumed) original range. The biologists argued that the younger traits
added to the adaptability of the animals and enabled them to thrive in
conditions different from those of their ancestors. You could make an argument
for the uses of neoteny in the software business.

(I once amused an (extremely grown-up) immigrant acquaintance by proposing
this as the explanation for the immaturity he saw in Californians, suggesting
that the Eastern US was the home range of the American. But of course he saw
Americans as generally immature.)

I do not blame anyone for enjoying it when his chosen work makes him a lot of
money. I do not blame any man for aspiring to attract women better looking
than he is. (And I think you mean "entitled", in which case, No, nobody's
entitled.) But yes, a little consciousness of what it's about wouldn't hurt a
bit.

~~~
xnull
I've encountered a number of articles and podcasts that extend the thesis that
the process of domestication produces neoteny - that dogs are what wolf
puppies would be if they never attained adult wolfhood. Many left the
reader/listener with the idea that perhaps humanity had domesticated itself;
purposefully weeded out those who become aggressive and self-involved and less
trusting (by prison, execution, exile, cultural norms of fitting partners for
reproduction) and made conditions more favorable for those who remain childish
and collaborative longer. Hardly reproducible, but fun to think about.

------
DickingAround
This isn't the strongest case for the statement (entirely based on media to
represent public will). But let's assume he's right (media is probably a close
enough proxy)...

What's interesting to think about is that not everyone is failing to become an
adult. I'll assert that a big difference between a 'responsible' adult
behavior and childish behavior is delaying gratification and getting the
outcome you want. If many people are acting like children now, the few that
are acting like adults are going to run circles around them. Perhaps the
people acting like children don't realize that they're still under heavy
selective pressure, just from the 0.1% and not from nature?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Your speculation presupposes that 'adults' will be more successful than 'non-
adults'. It is an interesting experiment, and everyone who is raising kids is
participating in it, I think it is too early to guess on which will be the
people in control of the knobs next.

------
denova
I know lots of people who don't want to get legally married, hate that their
lives are built around making money, and can't stand the thought of staying in
one place for too long. Traditional adulthood is obviously not very appealing
to them, and for good reason. We also aren't too keen on abandoning our
childhood dreams, hobbies, and aspirations. Some of them want kids, but having
kids tends to make living an alternative lifestyle a lot more difficult. I
don't know if any of this has anything to do with patriarchy or feminism, but
I suppose the people I surround myself with do hold rather egalitarian views.

------
cafard
Arrested development has seemed for quite a while to be a main source of movie
humor. "Sideways" comes to mind that way.

Considering the way adult male authority appeared in a lot of TV shows (60s
and 70s) led me to think that the screenwriters were enacting their own
conflict with their bosses, men who made them cut down on risque jokes, nixed
plot lines, etc. And those weren't great years for adult male authority in
politics.

~~~
bitwize
In many "teen movies" of the 80s you can feel the scriptwriter working out
his/her issues with authority. John Hughes was pretty bad about this, however
iconic those movies may have been. I learned to be thankful for movies where
teenagers were depicted as whiny, know-nothing, irresponsible _kids_ \-- and
celebrated for it.

------
DanielBMarkham
Reading this was like watching a kid make a snowman on top of a mountain, then
the snowman fell off the mountain and created a landslide that destroyed the
nearby town. The consequences and grand implications seem a bit far-ranging
for the central premise.

Kids buy movies. You get the teenagers and young 20-somethings doing your
thing, whatever your thing is? They'll drag the rest of society along with
them.

Enough with the comic book movies already. I think after 50 or so we should
have exhausted the genre for a while.

I think the key question is whether or not eventually people, including
teenagers, wise up to this nonsense. Do you really want to be consuming the
same old regurgitated boy-who-thinks-he-has-nothing-is-actually-a-great-wizard
storyline that grandpa did? At some point, I would think, this edifice has to
collapse under its own weight.

~~~
seanflyon
> the same old regurgitated boy-who-thinks-he-has-nothing-is-actually-a-great-
> wizard storyline

How many comic book movies actually follow this formula? surely not most of
them.

~~~
seanflyon
Try to actually think about it. What movies fit that formula?

Iron man - no, an arrogant man built his own powers Thor - no, an entitled boy
temporarily had to cope with the absence of his powers to earn them back The
Hulk - no, he is not a great wizard, he is trying to cure himself Captain
America - you could make an argument for it, but no, he auditioned for his
powers Batman - no Guardians of the Galaxy - no Spider-man - OK, especially in
"The Amazing Spider-man" they played the destiny card Superman - sort-of, but
he grew up with his powers Green Lantern - yes Daredevil - sort-of, but his
wizards power is "not actually blind" X-men - sort of, but their powers are a
civil rights race analogy

Most comic book movies do not fit the boy-who-thinks-he-has-nothing-is-
actually-a-great-wizard formula and those that do tend to be less successful.

------
devindotcom
Interesting, if rather woolly, little essay. The subversion of adult
authority, especially male authority, in media is an interesting topic, though
it has (as Scott notes) been happening for a long time. Before it was the
successful father figure, it was something else that succumbed to a good hard
look that asked whether it had any actual authority, or whether we were
choosing to submit to it. That goes back a long, long way.

------
ArkyBeagle
In American movies and television, there is this uncomfortable silence where
the western used to be.

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happyscrappy
This is pompous drivel. Instead of lamenting the reading habits of people that
work hard and take care of their families maybe we should try to get everyone
with children to be responsible parents. The author mistakes the hard won
victories of modern society for some nondescript juvenilism.

~~~
sebular
Not only does it sound like you didn't read the article to the end, it sounds
like you didn't even bother to skim past the first 1/3.

~~~
happyscrappy
Updike dealt with infidelity and so did Don Draper. The author contradicts his
thesis in the last paragraph. Did you have a point, he didn't.

