
Apple, Influence, and Ive - aaronbrethorst
https://www.hodinkee.com/magazine/jony-ive-apple
======
oflannabhra
I have an iPhone and an Apple Watch, both of which I greatly enjoy.

I've never felt more out of touch with both sides of an interview as I did
while attempting to read this.

I realize that Hodinkee is a site essentially about incredibly expensive men's
jewelry, but _sheesh_. When the author regretted _not_ bidding more that
$42,000 to buy Steve Jobs watch, I realized I am very, very far from the
target audience.

------
aetherson
"As I did, I looked down at the small section of my life situated at that
airport dining table: my new Nike Air Max sneakers, my cashmere swacket
(that’s 50% jacket, 50% sweater, 100% cozy), my almost-too-soft-to-be-taken-
outside leather duffel bag, and my iPhone. All of these objects were central
to me – I felt like they defined me."

These sentences are severely misaligned with my "take this author seriously"
algorithm.

~~~
vl
But this is exactly what is expected from Hodinkee. Their audience are people
who define themselves by buying expensive watches they love as objects. If you
want different perspective, read different publication.

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the_rosentotter
The self-conciousness, the fawning... This was a toe-curling read. And then it
turns out ultimately Steve Jobs did not give a flying fuck about watches but
happily wore a cheapo Seiko on the few occasions that he did use one. Ouch.
Yet the author's great regret is that he did not get to spend ~$50,000 on
_that_ watch, as if it is has some special significance, rather than being a
statement of the opposite, that takes missing the point to another level.

I'm not saying there is not a finer point to extremely expensive watches,
beyond the status symbolism, but this article kind of makes me think, no.

------
ThJ
The writer of this article is comically reverent of Apple and John I've, and I
say this as the owner of multiple Apple products.

~~~
dpkonofa
Yeah... it's kind of embarrassing.

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melling
i love my Apple Watch. I’ve been greatly disappointed, however, that Android
watches haven’t caught on. Every company needs a strong competitor to spur
innovation.

Given Google’s lead in AI, i’m sure they’d quickly offer features that’ll take
Apple years to implement.

~~~
wlesieutre
Maybe Fitbit Versa will be the one. They've got people from Pebble, and Pebble
was great up until they shut down and sold the useful bits to Fitbit.

I think I knew one or two people with a moto360 back when those were newish,
but you really don't see them anymore.

~~~
rhodysurf
I have a moto 360 and an Apple watch.. The apple watch is sooo much better at
what I actually care about, looking at the face and seeing real time data
alone with the time (complications).

I never use apps, just use it for notifications and glancing at complications
to see what the latest wave buoy data is.

~~~
wlesieutre
For the most part I'm using it for activity tracking, notifications, and a
couple of complications, but there are a handful of apps that I've found are
handy to have around:

1Password or Duo for TOTP codes. Visual Codes lets people scan my watch to
join my wifi network. Dark Sky to check for upcoming rain. Remote to control
an Apple TV. Huemote to control a few lights.

I only got it recently, but I get the impression that a lot of companies
(Amazon, Twitter, Ebay, and Instagram, etc.) came up with Watch apps and then
killed them because they were pointless. Those are things that are better done
with a phone. But for small utility tasks, it's handy to have them right here.

------
jgh
I have a first-gen apple watch and I almost never use it. The only time I've
really put it to much use was while traveling, but then I bought a cheapo
spanish automatic and now I wear that instead. I have an FP Journe that I wear
regularly, and it's a watch that I love. It's my only expensive one. I'm not
really a "watch guy", I enjoy wearing watches and obviously have spent some
money on them, but I can't say that I like the apple watch.

~~~
rauhl
About two years ago I decided that it was time to get a smart watch. I’m a
developer, I’m a geek, I love my smart phone — a smart watch is the perfect
accessory, right?

Well, actually it’s not. After spending quite a lot of time looking at the
different options out there, I realised that a smart watch is a dumb purchase:
it’s another computer with a 3-year lifespan, but a price tag like a luxury
watch.

So I ended up buying some automatic watches instead. They’re less expensive
and sharper-looking.

After looking at the watches shown off in this article: I made the right call.
I’m fairly certain that in a decade we’re going to look back on smart watches
the way we do digital watches: as an odd fad that noöne will be able to
explain later on.

~~~
microtherion
"luxury watch"? I've never seen any particularly compelling sub-$1000
mechanical watches, and I'd say the "luxury" segment for watches starts at
more than $2000.

~~~
rauhl
> I've never seen any particularly compelling sub-$1000 mechanical watches

I guess it depends on what you mean by ‘compelling.’ Ævig, Lew & Huey, Nivrel,
Hamilton, Christopher Ward, Melbourne and many, _many_ more have some very
attractive options for under $1,000.

You do have a point about the word ‘luxury’ though — I should have just stuck
with ‘mechanical’ or ‘automatic.’

------
olivermarks
I don't think Ive is 'the greatest designer of our generation' at all. Apple's
innovation has fallen off a cliff, they are now a financialized company
focusing on essentially being a bank, and watch fashions are not something I
have any interest in from them. I wish they would get some of their old mojo
back and get back into the spirit and excitement of Apple circa 12 years ago
when everyone was waiting to see what they'd come up with next...

/written on an ancient macbook air because they haven't come up with a good
replacement yet

~~~
Analemma_
If you believe the motto "design is how it works" (and Apple should, because
the phrase was coined by Steve Jobs), Apple's design in the Cook era has been
abysmal: charging your Apple Pencil by sticking it out of the lightning port.
The mouse that has to charge by flipping it upside-down. The beautiful trash
can that couldn't be upgraded. And this fucking keyboard that dies and sets
you back $700 if it gets so much as a speck of dust in it.

Jony Ive is way overdue for a re-evaluation as "the greatest designer of our
generation". Left to his own devices without Jobs as a moderating influence,
he produces hot garbage.

~~~
Clubber
Don't forget removing the mag-safe power connector. Having said all that, what
company and what person designs better stuff? Most of the crap we buy is
garbage.

------
Gorbzel
“The thing that struck me was the vitriol from some commenters. It is not
surprising, but it is unnecessary.

It’s just that we’ve been here so many times before, and we’ve sat through
people pouring scorn on us with the iPhone. I don’t understand the reaction –
while others haven’t been critical and have been more curious and inquisitive.
And I think they will do well because of it and the others will fail, partly
as a consequence of that dogma.”

Describes 90% of comments re: Apple on this site. Keep ignoring them Jony.

------
L_Rahman
I don't appreciate often enough how many of the profiles and interviews I read
are composed by people who've spent years honing the very specific craft of
talking to a person and trying to put them on paper.

But reading this amateur effort really puts all of that into perspective.
Regardless of what you think of the actual views Ives communicates in the
piece, the writing is so bad it's hard to keep reading. Apparently all you
have to do for an exclusive is be a mawkish fanboy with a lot of money to
spend on men's jewelry.

~~~
wmeredith
Eh, Hodinkee may not be to your taste (it's not entirely to mine), but your
dismissiveness of it seems misplaced. It's a hugely trafficked website and has
been consistently putting out a lot of quality content about watches and men's
fashion for almost 10 years now. That's is what got him this access. Not being
a "mawkish fanboy with a lot of money to spend on men's jewelry."

~~~
L_Rahman
I apologize for making my comment so hyperbolic and you are right to call me
out for dishing on them unfairly.

I'm familiar with Hodinkee and in general I think favorably of them.

They've brought some necessary web polish to an industry where publicity has a
very grubby old school feel to it. Personally, I've used Hodinkee as a jumping
off point to do some research into watches I might want to own some day and
the site has only made firmer my love for the Nomos house.

That being said, as a journalistic outlet the site is still very much a show
run by amateur enthusiasts. This is not inherently a problem, plenty of fields
get covered by people early in their career. But there is something specific
to luxury watches that makes it unable to feed in or out of the ecosystem of
writers and limits the people working there to the kind of people who can be
interested in very expensive jewelry.

Compare this profile to one's done by people who specialize in the craft - Ta-
Nehisi Coates at the Atlantic on Obama, Caity Weaver at GQ, or closer to the
tech world Adrian Chen at the New Yorker and Steven Levy at Wired - and you
can see the core editorial and writing skills simply aren't there and likely
never will be.

------
crispinb
Quite uncanny. Jony 'wanky' Ive is precisely as vapid as you'd imagine a
person who makes his design decisions would be.

------
natch
I'm surprised that Ive did an interview with such a bad writer (as evidenced
by overuse of needless adjectives) and one who so obsessively namedrops
designer brands as if it's the brand, not the substance, that matters.

Fortunately after the inane introduction, the questions were real questions
and not just the interviewer taking the opportunity to make points. So still a
good read.

------
089723645897236
"The greatest designer of our generation."

Pffft. Greatest stylist maybe.

Once again the distinction between design and styling is lost on journalists.

~~~
tzaman
Ok, I'll bite - enlighten us.

~~~
freehunter
There is a difference, even if I disagree with 089723645897236 that the
distinction matters here. Design incorporates function as well as looks. A
sports car can be beautifully styled, but if the electronics don't work and
the engine is underpowered and the transmission has too few gears and the
seats don't sit at the right angle, it's certainly not well designed despite
its good looks.

What they're saying is that Apple's products are nice to look at but do not
function well, which is a very arguable statement.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Apple's products have been increasingly driven by form over function after
Jobs died - most obviously slimness over practicality, and gimmicks like the
TouchBar over user delight.

To some extent the change started while Jobs was alive, but there's certainly
limited evidence of commitment to beautiful friction-free computing at Apple
now - as there was, more or less, when Jobs was in charge.

Watch is a low point, because the case design is far from a classic, and the
functionality is crippled by poor performance and limited battery life.

So I agree with those who think Ives is overhyped. He can make hits under
supervision, but if he's left unsupervised, he's the design equivalent of an
architecture astronaut.

The fact that Jobs had zero interest in a watch speaks volumes. I suspect -
but can't prove - that he would also have had zero interest in Hermès
branding, and the rest.

------
exodust
Cringey long-winded ass kissing pile of Apple worship. He sure loves his Apple
products, they touch him on a deeply emotional level.

He elevates 'Sir Jonathan Ive' beyond mere human to a realm where normal human
behaviour is worth writing about...

" _As Jony posed for our cover shot against a scrim, the photographer, a
friend of his, made a few jokes. Jony laughed. Not because he had to, but
because he thought they were funny._ "

Apple fanatics are getting worse.

------
lisper
My iPod Touch died (expanding battery syndrome) and Apple authorized service
centers won't replace the battery. Instead they give you a new iPod for the
same price as a battery replacement. So I am going through the process of
setting up a new Apple device for the first time in a long time.

It's a nightmare. The default home screen is a garish combination of clashing
colors. The default wallpaper is a horrific polka-dot pattern. If you don't
like polka dots, and you just want a solid color, you have one option: black.

The new look-and-feel does not have any consistent visual distinction for
active areas of the screen that should respond to touch. There is no visual
feedback for a successful touch. Responses to touches are often delayed. The
net effect is that it is often impossible to tell whether you are poking part
of the screen that isn't actually active, or if the system is just slow to
respond, or if you finger is defective. (That's not a joke. My wife
consistently has trouble activating touch screens.)

~~~
1123581321
What are you trying to do that requires a touch, but gives no visual feedback?
I can’t think of a situation where a touch would do something and not change
the screen in some way. I agree the design is a little flat, though. The flat,
minimal design benefits sophisticated users at the expense of new, unpracticed
users.

If you’re having trouble because of how hard you press, take a look at the
Accessibility settings for touch.

As mentioned, it’s easy to change the wallpaper. If you want a solid color, I
agree a native picker should exist, but there are plenty of free native apps
that do this.

~~~
lisper
> What are you trying to do that requires a touch, but gives no visual
> feedback?

It happens to me regularly that I touch something that I happen to know is an
active control and absolutely nothing happens. I have no idea if my touch
registered and the app is just hung, or if it didn't register.

> it’s easy to change the wallpaper

I shouldn't have to install an app to make my wallpaper solid grey instead of
black.

But that's not really the point. The point is that all those polka-dot
patterns are just visually atrocious. They're about as tasteful as plastic
pink lawn flamingos.

