
The neglected benefits of the commute - dsr12
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20180806-the-neglected-benefits-of-the-commute
======
habosa
Those are some nice benefits, but a commute is still mostly a waste.

I did the infamous SF to Mountain View commute on "The Google Bus" for two
years. It's about as decent as a 1.5hr commute can be, you're on a quiet
private bus with big seats and WiFi.

I spent about 80% of the time reading novels. With a few hours to myself a day
I was reading a book a week no problem. In that sense it was nice.

Then I got moved to the SF office. My commute turned into a 20m bike or
subway. Quality of life went through the roof. My girlfriend told me I seemed
happier all day. I could still read in my saved time, but I was also free to
spend that time on other things. I also get to spend a lot more time with my
friends since I'm available to meet up after work on short notice.

Having this experience, I wouldn't go back to the commute even for a 20%
raise. It's that bad.

~~~
rayiner
I'll chime in with the opposite experience. My wife and I went from short
commutes when we lived in D.C. (5 minutes for her, 15 minutes for me), to a
hour-and-fifteen minute commute from Annapolis to D.C. each day. We found we
were much happier with the commute. Being parents, the extra time at home was
diverted to chores and child care. The commute, by contrast, gave us time to
ourselves to chat.

~~~
mertd
But the commute isn't the thing that absolved you from those responsibilities.
I suppose you either stopped doing them or outsourced them, which you could
have also done in your commuteless life.

~~~
virtuabhi
Work expands to fill time.

~~~
tvh
Only if you let it - with some exceptions of course.

------
iamphilrae
I live in London and a few years ago I used to commute from east to west
(Ealing to Liverpool Street). The trip is normally 45 minutes each way on the
Central Line, however I would regularly miss out on a seat and be subjected to
a cattle-class sweat box that just put me in a foul mood for the rest of the
day.

However, being Ealing, I also had the option of taking the District Line to
rougly the same place (Tower Bridge). My journery was now 1hr 15m, however
with the DL's spacious air-conditioned carriages and guaranteed seat, it was
well worth it. It put me in the best state of mind and allowed me to use my
laptop to work on my own projects. In 6 months of 2hrs to myself each day, I
wrote medistudents.com and still was able to relax at the end of the day and
not let software development impact home life. Without the commute and this
opportunity to work on my own things, I would have either never found the time
for a side project, or p*ssed off my girlfriend for spending all night on the
laptop.

Nowadays I either work from home or commute by car. It's just not the same -
either from looking at the same 4 walls every day, or regarding time spent in
traffic as a complete waste. And my time on my own projects has now
essentially reduced to zero.

So if you commute by a comfortable bus or train, spend your time wisely.
Definitely don't waste it playing Candy Crush. Take advantage of it for
working on a side project, learning something new, or just self-reflection.

~~~
jondubois
I had a similar experience when working in Australia. There was a lot of space
for me to pull out my laptop and do some work.

When I moved to Europe (London, then Berlin) the trains were too small and too
crowded - Also they usually have seats facing other seats which is
distracting. Not private enough for me to concentrate.

~~~
cylinder
Curious which train service are you referring to in Australia?

~~~
jondubois
Sydney.

~~~
cylinder
Was this a while ago? You're unlikely to get a seat on peak services these
days. Even if you do I find them too cramped for actually working.

------
scrumper
The best commute I ever had was a 45m walk from the upper east side of
Manhattan to midtown, through Central Park. I did it every day for two years
in all weathers. What a wonderful way to see change each day, mark the
seasons, feel connected to something approaching nature, and to gear up for
and wind down from work. It isn't strictly productive but it is incredibly
good for mental health.

~~~
kitrose
When I lived in the city I did this same walk, and I've never been happier
going into work in the morning.

------
seanhandley
The commute is a driver for one thing in this scenario: discipline.

You have no choice but to commute, so you either slog through it or use the
time constructively.

As a 100% remote worker, I have no commute to motivate me to fill that time.
But I can get up early and go running, visit the gym, read, prepare for work,
do a side project etc during the exact time slot I would have been travelling
to/from an office.

I don't miss that time spent commuting at all but sometimes I miss the
enforced discipline it provides. If I'm not feeling motivated then that time
just gets eaten up by sleeping late etc. Having an external motivator like
commuting means you can't be lazy.

~~~
joncrane
Agreed. When I am optimizing to minimize time spent driving, I have to be very
disciplined with when I wake up, when I leave for work, and when I leave work.
It's definitely an effort, but worth it.

------
alexgmcm
I find it massively depends on the commute. Previously, I often had to travel
to visit my SO which was an hour away by train. As I almost always had a seat
I could watch Coursera videos on my phone.

However, I have a 20-30 minute bus ride to work everyday in which there are
never free seats and you are often lucky if you even have room to reach into
your pocket let alone watch videos on your phone.

It's hard to see any benefit to the latter commute as being rammed in like
cattle doesn't aid self-reflection either.

~~~
sundvor
Yeah I've done public transport, car and cycle. I far prefer the latter, which
doesn't make me fat and stressed the way driving a car or squeezing into an
overfilled train does. (Well except for those moments when someone is trying
to kill us, but you get used to those I guess...)

------
havocbolt
I'm doing a compulsory end of studies internship in a big IT company in
France, now I live in the other side of the paris area, and I refused many
internships because they didn't allow remote work.

So I started with this company and asked for remote work for 3 days a week and
they accepted, but when I started they sent my supervisor to work on a
different project and the new one refused any form of remote work, and it was
too late to change since it's a long process between the company and the
school etc...

So now I do 2x2h of commute a day, and most of it is standing in a train or a
subway filled with people, I tried every form of entertainment or podcasts or
videos but nothing does it, I only have 1 month left though but it was the
most soul crushing experience of my life.

The irony in all of this is I'm a developper and their VPN works flawlessly
and I'm the only one working on the project so there are at most one meeting a
week and it's done over Skype since most employees work remotely, but not
interns. I now believe that there are no actual benefits to commute (as in big
city commute with subways etc...) and they're the ones losing manhours, since
I could have put those 4h a day working on the project.

~~~
bitL
Sorry, they screwed you. Insist on your 3 days a week, tell your new
supervisor to get their head checked. You really want to waste 4h a day? Check
the "REMOTE" keyword on 1st September @ HN and work on your escape already.

~~~
havocbolt
I only have one month left, plus it's a huge company and they can be really
rigid, so I talked to HR but she said since the interview wasn't written or
recorded then they can't do anything haha, plus she said interns get to learn
so much more coming to the site than they would working from home, which is
total bulls*it since they give you assignement and you do them, you're
basically an employee who can't work remote and gets paid a fraction of what
an employee does.

------
overcast
You're NEVER going to convince me that you're gaining any benefits over being
five minutes from my house. Home to eat lunch, and take a nap in silence is
worth more than any perk on this planet. I pity you all with hellish travel.

~~~
astrodust
Five minutes is too short. Ten to fifteen is ideal. That usually means you're
living and working in different neighborhoods.

~~~
overcast
Until Winter in the Northeast hits, and commute times multiply by 4x. Five is
perfect yo.

~~~
praneshp
I pity you all with hellish winters.

Sorry, could not resist. I envy your commute (I used to do that, now I do
mountain view -> SF)

~~~
overcast
Seasons are everything, I couldn't do the 70 degrees and sunny west coast
climate every day of my life.

------
fpoling
As a child I used to commute to the school in an overcrowded public bus of
late Soviet Union type. And overcrowded meant that one had to literally
squeeze oneself into the bus. As it was often impossible even to look at the
window as that was covered in frost the only thing that I could do was to
either observe clothes of other people or listen to what people say around.
One often realized that if friends or couple are loudly talking about
something interesting, then the whole bus was silent trying to listen despite
the noise of the engine. On many occasions the stories or talks were so
fascinating or weird that it was disappointing to leave the bus.

------
emodendroket
I think the ideal distance is probably like 15 to 30 minutes. Enough to make
"work" and "home" different places and not feel like you never get away from
work, but not enough to resent all the time you're frittering away listening
to imbeciles chattering away on the train while you try to read.

~~~
matwood
When I go to the office, my commute is currently ~30 minutes. It is definitely
right on the edge of being too long.

My main problem with a commute is not that it's 30 minutes, but that it's 30
minutes _by car_. I despise driving. It seems like such a complete waste of
time in general. Plus, it's dangerous dealing with a bunch of idiots on their
phones. /rant over

~~~
gambiting
It's funny, because I specifically didn't want to live too close to the office
for the exact opposite reason - I like driving, and living within walking
distance would mean that I don't get to drive every day.

~~~
emodendroket
I enjoy driving... but driving during rush-hour?

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Not everyone who lives in a city lives in one that is massively over populated
relative to its transportation infrastructure.

~~~
emodendroket
Even if you do not live in a major city it is often miserable to, for
instance, use the interstate. Previous major infrastructure attempts to
eliminate congestion have happened in, for instance, Los Angeles... try going
for a drive there at 5:00 in the afternoon and see how much you enjoy it.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
I didn't say "major city", I said "one that is massively over populated
relative to its transportation infrastructure" (which just so happens to
include most cities that most people would consider major cities). Most medium
cities are nowhere near that bad. The person I was replying to said "cities".
Not "major cities that many people on the internet assume everyone who lives
in a city lives in".

~~~
emodendroket
Unless you're quite familiar with New England you've never heard of the cities
I've lived in. Nevertheless, driving still sucked. I really don't see that
"people have heard of the city" has much to do with it.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
I'm saying that big "brand name" cities that everyone has heard of are a
clusterfuck with regard to traffic (and whatever public transit they have is
equally bad). Many of the medium and small cities that compose a large amount
of the population don't have this problem. Except for the state capitals,
Worcester, New Haven and maybe a couple others you'd be hard pressed to be in
traffic for more than 30min in Southern New England unless your commute
involves the same routes in the same directions as the commuter traffic from
those cities. For example, if you left work at 5pm in Lowell or Fall River
traffic conditions on your way to wherever you're going would be fine by 5:30.
In northern New England the only way to be stuck in traffic is to travel on a
Friday or Sunday afternoon in the summer in which case the roads will be full
of Massholes but one could make the argument that you're really just in Boston
traffic in that case. Maybe if you get out of work in Marlboro and need to
take the highway in the same direction as all the Boston traffic you could be
in traffic for more than 30min but once again I'd argue that you're really
just sitting in Boston traffic.

~~~
emodendroket
Yeah unfortunately some dumbass built all the roads so they go through
multiple cities.

------
superqwert
I live in London and have a 1 hour commute by tube. I read even if I have to
stand in a sweaty, crowded space. It helps with distracting me from the
horrors of the journey.

It also means I get ~10 hours reading done a week, which has come to ~50
books/year for the last few years.

I read mostly non-fiction and usually they are textbooks on varied subjects
(often not related to work). I feel this has vastly improved my understanding
of the world and has meant I can talk to people about many various subjects,
ones I would know almost nothing about otherwise.

~~~
Kiro
> I feel this has vastly improved my understanding of the world and has meant
> I can talk to people about many various subjects, ones I would know almost
> nothing about otherwise.

Inspiring! I often feel uneducated so would love to get in a similar position.

OT but any books you recommend?

~~~
teekert
Haha, definitely stick to books on topics you like, feeling uneducated does
not mean you are. And if you just want to feel educated, trust me, it might
never come because the more you know the more you understand that you know
very little. I think it is the hallmark of the educated mind to feel a bit
uneducated.

------
rerx
The article points out measurable health benefits from having to walk a little
to and from bus and metro stops. They totally neglected talking about the
advantages of commuting by bicycle though.

It would take a lot to make me switch to a job that I would not be able to
reach in half an hour or so on a bike.

~~~
2T1Qka0rEiPr
I thought this. As a cyclist, I actually find cycling to work generally very
beneficial. Though, now I am a cyclist I think I'd also be reluctant to take a
job which I either a) couldn't cycle to, or b) couldn't cycle to within a
reasonable time (e.g. 30 minutes as you said).

My switch a few years back has been almost universally positive, though I do
read less as a result.

------
tjansen
Years ago I worked within walking distance to the office. It took only 10
minutes to walk there. I hated it. You spend all day and night in the same
neighbourhood. At lunch I went to the same places I would go to at the
weekends. Life just felt so repetitive, seeing the same things every day.
Today I drive 15-20 minutes to the other end of the town, with just moderate
traffic, and for me that's perfect. Less stressful than public transportation,
and more variety than in the old office.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
See, I like that sort of distance. 10 minute walk? Yes please. I'll walk up to
30 minutes to work and back and be fairly happy, though with the upper limits
I'm more likely to take a bus or drive on really cold days or days with heavy
rain, especially if there is also wind. With these distances, taking the bus
usually means I leave at the same time anyway.

I have more free time that doesn't concentrate on work this way, which means I
have more time for hobbies (I draw and paint). Plus bonus physical activity.

~~~
bovermyer
My favorite commute ever was when it took me 30 minutes to walk to work. Most
of that mile and a half was in the Skyway, so even in winter it was pleasant.

As a result, I lost 40 pounds.

Now that I don't do that walk anymore, I've gained half of that back.

~~~
Broken_Hippo
I've always rather enjoyed 20-30 minute walking commutes. So long as I dress
correctly, winter is usually not a big issue.

I had some weight loss at first, but I do gain a bit when I stop doing so much
walking. I know I should just get out and walk anyway, but walking is so
boring when I don't have somewhere to go.

------
saiya-jin
I recall some article mentioning people get used to most positive or negative
things in their lives, and after some time level back to their original base
level of happiness.

There are 2 exceptions - positive one being a good pet with feedback (ie dog,
or maybe even cat), and negative being longer commute. It just drains our
positive energy, one bit at a time, continuously.

I used to commute to work 70-90 minutes each way with many types of transport
(usually bus-train-tram but sometimes more), every day. I didn't come home
drained from work, that I can handle easily, but commute was soul crushing, no
matter what I read/did (and mostly I could have a seat).

Eventually enough was enough, I moved to the city where work is, and having 15
minute commute saves me freakin' 2+ hours of my life, every single work day.
You can't put the price on that. And the move was positive change in my life
for other reasons as well.

Many people around me tell me they can handle long commutes, but they don't
appear to be very happy in their lives. Honestly, if you can, do a change in
your life. You won't regret it.

~~~
sokoloff
For most of my 20s, I lived ~35 miles north of the city and drove to/from
work. I self-reported/self-convinced that I enjoyed it most times and "didn't
mind it" most other times. It made socializing, playing sports, and going out
more difficult.

I then moved smack into the city, had a walking commute to work for many
years, and absolutely loved that.

Now, my commute is 8 miles (each way) driving and while I'd prefer a walkable
commute, I definitely can't imagine going back to driving 75 miles per day.

I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute.
You can, but try not to...

~~~
jaclaz
>I think "can handle" is the best description I could use for a long commute.
You can, but try not to...

I concur.

In my experience there is a phenomenon (in driving generically, not
necessarily in driving for commuting), that I believe is connected to the fact
that kms/miles driven "add up".

For me this happened on or around the 1,000,000 kms mark.

I know it sounds obvious/a truism but after one has driven for a (large)
amount of kms in his/her life, he/she has "enough" of that.

The 10/15/20 kms/minutes remain "ok", but longer commutes start to be
"annoying".

I am now living at a 8 km (please read as 8 minutes) drive away from work, and
it is just fine, when I have to go to the nearby city (35-40 km away), and I
have to do that 1 or 2 times per week, I try to avoid the car and take the
train if I can.

Longish trips (200-300 or more) kms are still OK (because they are not
common), but I wouldn't stand the daily commute for 40 kms.

------
bitL
If a commute takes longer than 10 minutes, it's a complete waste of time. One
can try to find a "hidden pearl" there and bend arguments why it can be
beneficial for improving discipline etc., nevertheless, those virtues could be
achieved more efficiently without commuting while saving the most precious
resource - time.

~~~
jusssi
Working itself wastes time so much more than the commute, so it's better to
free oneself from that altogether. Have all that time for yourself instead.

Just drop a couple of mil * to stock market and live off the dividends.

*) Not an option for most people, I know. But so is commuteless life.

~~~
bitL
I meant it the way that it's better to accept that commuting is a net negative
for many reasons instead of trying to put a lipstick on a pig and spin it in a
positive way. Necessary evil, most of the time.

------
glitcher
In a sprawling US city with poor mass transit, I don't see how sitting in
traffic solo in my car along with thousands of others is helping anybody's
health.

I'll take the time and money savings of working from home any day. By a very
conservative estimate, commuting to work used up about 12 full days of my life
every year.

------
mlcrypto
I drive about 1.5-2 hours a day and I'd like to think there are benefits for
my eyes as well. My eyes get to experience all sorts of depths and colors that
aren't possible while coding or playing games or TV. Kind of like a muscle,
use it or lose it. I'd like to see a study done about commuters and eyesight

~~~
emodendroket
I mean, you could just go outside independent of your commute

~~~
mlcrypto
I could but I probably wouldn't since most of my hobbies are digital

~~~
emodendroket
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I probably wouldn't read as many books if I
didn't take the train to work. But does that make it worthwhile to suffer
through every morning? Tough call.

------
murph-almighty
My commute lasts anywhere from 1.5-2hours (NJ-NY). While I respect that this
article found that Taiwanese commuters who used public transport tend to be
slimmer than those who use cars, I personally find that spending 3-4 hours a
day commuting interferes with my ability to actually get in physical exercise
that would allow me to be slimmer in the first place!

I don't dispute the accelerated learning bit- I've recently started taking out
my laptop and trying to learn Go while commuting and it's been mostly
productive. I had to block reddit on my phone first though...

------
option
I live in CA and often comute on my motrcycle. It’s a joy - carpool lanes,
lane spliting, and a motorcycle I like. About 15 mins by motorcycle and could
easily be 40 by car (because of carpool lanes and lane splitting, not speed)

~~~
Schwolop
We are the 1%... :-)

Specifically, I do this in Melbourne, Australia where it's free and legal to
park a motorcycle on the pavement (aka sidewalk). A 2012 study found that we
make up almost exactly 1% of all commuters:
[http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf](http://atrf.info/papers/2013/2013_rose_delbosc.pdf)

------
alex_hitchins
I've commuted long distances (over an hour each way) by train and car for
nearly two decades. When driving I try to get through my podcast backlog
mainly on technical things, but also now more general stuff. Sometimes I miss
the ability to bring the laptop out and do something fun, but then I remember
when I did train in, I ended up working most of the time, and it became an
extra two hours of work per day. Like all things, it's down to self-discipline
I suppose.

~~~
dagw
_it became an extra two hours of work per day_

I have a friend of mine who commutes an hour+ by train each day and he has
basically agreed with his boss that if he works on the train he can leave
earlier/show up later.

~~~
alex_hitchins
I've had similar arrangements too, it's nice when it's an available option.

------
lvturner
"In the UK, for instance, he calculates that a 10% increase in the use of
public transport could result in 1.2 million more people reaching the
recommended levels of physical activity."

I suspect that's partly because our public transport has been utterly
decimated to the point that you have to walk several miles a day to get to
work.

Unless you live somewhere like London, I suppose.

~~~
4ndr3vv
Hardly! if the daily level of physical activity is 30 minutes exercise per
day, then this is only 7.5 minutes walking each end of the commute.

------
KozmoNau7
I commute around 25 minutes by bike or public transit. Biking nets me daily
exercise, and on the bus I can read the news or a book.

Would I rather avoid the commute and have a job within walking distance if
possible? Hell yeah! I'd much rather spend my commuting time at home doing
something interesting.

------
iliaznk
I have to commute, but not for long, about 20 minutes by subway and some about
20-25 minutes of walking to and from subway. There're some small buses riding
back and forth from and to the subway stations as well, but I deliberately
walk, because nowadays you really don't get to walk much as long as you don't
do it on purpose.

And the subway ride - that's one of the sparse opportunities to read a book.
Though, 20 minutes is not a very long while for reading, but still. Earlier
the ride would take me 30-35 minutes – even more time for reading! That's what
allows to me to read a lot. Relatively a lot, of course. If I was driving a
car or walking all the way I wouldn't have read even half of that amount,
that's for sure.

So, for me, I believe, commute is definitely a useful thing, I'd say.

------
ensiferum
These are not benefits of the commute.

To use the examples from the article "Accelerated learning" is really not the
benefit of a commute but doing "work-related prospection" (whatever that is).

------
yawz
It's not always possible, but commuting by bicycle is great. Burning extra
calories and listening to audio books (continuous learning) make the commute a
productive time for me.

~~~
markc
I also bike commute full time (even through Boston winters) and love it. I
know I couldn't bike to music safely though. Are audiobooks different? Can you
still hear approaching cars etc.? Or do you have an unusually safe route?

~~~
yawz
Ah! Almost my entire ~5 mile (each way) is on bike paths. But audiobooks are
definitely different than music. Much easier to hear around as there's only a
single person speaking instead of various continuous channels.

------
zwieback
I had a 70 minute commute each way for a couple years but I joined a carpool,
the type where you call a number posted on the freeway.

The psychological benefits of carpooling with people otherwise unrelated were,
for me, surprisingly high. On the way to work we'd discuss the day ahead, on
the way back recap stuff or talk about our plans for the night or weekend.

I don't want to go back to long car commutes but would happily sign up for a
carpool again if needed.

~~~
irrational
What did you do if a project required you to stay late that day?

~~~
zwieback
Generally that just wasn't an option. I cleared it with my manager and there
were only a couple of times that I can remember where we had either a customer
visit or total crunch time and I'd drive myself on days where I wasn't the DD.
This was in the early 90s so remote internet login wasn't even possible and we
didn't have laptops either, sounds hard to believe even to myself now.

------
pouetpouet
The benefits drop precipitously after the 15 or 20min mark. A 10-20min walking
or biking commute is good. 30min of driving in traffic is not.

~~~
stronglikedan
> 30min of driving in traffic is not.

Unless you like to drive, or in my case, _love_ to drive. I.e., it's
subjective.

~~~
sincerely
I love driving.

I absolutely hate driving in traffic.

------
k__
Somehow I have the feeling that all the pros agains remote work are either
only cons in disguise (you miss the water-cooler-talk -> we don't bother to
set up a process) or stuff people simply don't manage to do on their own (meet
people, excercise)

I know people who commute over 3h a day, that makes multiple weeks a year just
being "in transit"...

------
benzesandbetter
Honestly, if it takes a commute for you to get these benefits, you're doing
life wrong...

If you're somehow in a situation where you _have to_ commute, you can
certainly make the best of it. But, let's not exalt it as some sort of
healthy, zen, practice.

------
skate22
My commute often leaves me feeling exhausted & annoyed (2 hours each way, half
on the train)

The main positive thing that came from this commute was reading for pleasure
(somthing I was not doing beforehand)

I don't try to max productivity on the commute, and my mental health thanks me
for that

~~~
Rainymood
That's half a work day spent in commute man ... why?

~~~
skate22
Less than half, i spend 9 to 10 hours at the office, and I'm saving towards a
house (extra cash from cheaper rent)

------
graeme
I work from an office right around my home. I suppose I don't have to commute,
but in practice I go for am ambling walk around the nearby park every morning
before work. I find I work veterans this way, even if I have less time.

------
chrisweekly
I'm mostly remote, but when I do commute it's podcasts / work-related non-
fiction on the way in, and "attitude adjustment hour" music or audiobooks
(usually fiction) for pleasure, on the way home.

------
antoniuschan99
A job I had took 7 minutes from leaving the apartment to sitting on the seat
at work.

One of the benefits was being able to go home and take a nap at lunch time.

------
alunchbox
I don't miss my commute by a long shot (Niagara to Toronto) all day, every
day... about 2H on a good day each way during rush hours.

