
Endgame: how Australian preppers are bugging out and hunkering down - gpresot
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/29/end-game-how-australian-preppers-are-bugging-out-and-hunkering-down
======
radoslawc
> Earlier this year the hands of the Doomsday Clock moved to two minutes to
> midnight, as atomic scientists announced that the world is closer to
> annihilation than it has been in decades.

> As global anxiety takes hold, an increasing number of people are preparing
> for the worst-case scenario

Am I the only one not in the loop whith this?

And if we're really facing 'global nuclear annihilation' I don't think grownup
men running around the bush with plastic compass and god damn bow, roleplaying
Metro 2033 are solution to this.

~~~
lolc
Prepping is an individual solution to the threat of societal collapse. In the
grander scheme of things, it can be seen as an anti-solution. It gives some
people the idea that they've got an escape hatch. If you think you can run
away, you'll be less inclined to fight for a solution that avoids collapse.

Luckily, the article differentiates here and doesn't feature hardcore
fatalists only. And in my view, just thinking about what living outside modern
society encompasses will actually help people understand what they got. And
why they should fight for it.

Personally, I need insulin. So I'm committed anyway. I can't just go hide in a
bush for years on-end.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>In the grander scheme of things, it can be seen as an anti-solution. It gives
some people the idea that they've got an escape hatch. If you think you can
run away, you'll be less inclined to fight for a solution that avoids
collapse.

It comes off like you're saying "well if shit really goes south I'm screwed so
these people should be too". A few thousand preppers who are too busy prepping
to "fight for a solution" isn't gonna make the difference between shit going
south or not.

Not to be an ass but the kind of people I picture saying something like that
are stuffy politicians who likes to use phrases like "antisocial behavior",
"community norms" and "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the
problem" and who is completely out of touch with what shapes the decisions of
everyday people.

If someone wants to prep for something that's highly unlikely to happen then I
see no problem with that. If anything their prepping stands to be useful in a
hurricane Katrina type situation. What's the problem with that?

~~~
s_kilk
> It comes off like you're saying "well if shit really goes south I'm screwed
> so these people should be too"

I think it's more a recognition that we are social creatures, and that the
minimum-viable unit of social reproduction is the village cluster, not the
lone-wolf individual.

The notion that these folk are going to "survive" in any meaningful sense is a
fantasy.

------
scotty79
> “We live in an era that, within 15 minutes’ notice, nuclear weapons could be
> crossing the continents bringing about great devastation. Yet we deny this,
> go about our business.

Also every person you pass on the street can end your life in minutes or less
with few dollars worth of steel. Yet we go about our business.

That possibility is just the cost of living near people. With nukes "near"
means "on the same planet".

~~~
gumby
And the irony is that though in theory your local _n_ is smaller than that of
the entire globe, in reality the number of people who _could_ launch an ICBM
is miniscule while, as you point you, you typically are in proximity to quite
a few on a given day (even in Australia).

------
bentona
I am completely unprepared for any degree of civilization collapse.

Articles like this, however, make me wonder if there is a strategy that will
leave me more prepared than the average person, but not involve devoting my
entire life & pool of resources to a bomb shelter in the outback. We insure
against other unlikely but catastrophic events through various types of
insurance - are there any demi-preppers out there?

~~~
czechdeveloper
I still believe that this is 90% of "preppers". They study it for a week, make
some arrangements an then just let it go. Revisit those arrangements once a
year or so and you are golden.

Generally you aim at basics.

* About 3 weeks worth of food (2000 kcal/person/day)

* Week of water (gallon/person/day), some basic water filtration (Sawyer squeeze)

* Some preps may be more in line with local climate (backup heating for cold environments)

* Evacuation bags are very common and are also known as BOBs (but most are garbage with lots of guns and no water). Still good to make some with copies of important documents, some water and spare clothes. Just get your old spare bag and unused clothes, no need to overthink it.

* Think about having more first aid material and skills

* Hygiene can be pain once your toilet does not flush anymore and you can't wash your hands, make some arrangements for that too (ie. bucket and plastic bags are way better than nothing)

* I'd also consider tools, such as headlamp per person, other depends on location and needs. Axe can be useful even in city in case of earthquake. Fixed blade knife is probably most versatile tool and Morakniv companion for 15 USD is usually sufficient. But I would suggest some practice here too, you don't want to get cut during temporary service disruption.

Good luck. As German governmental pamphlet states "Germany is ready, when
every German is ready". Replace with your own country :).

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
I don’t care about the overly sensitive downvotes because HN has been turning
more into Reddit anyhow but - you left out firearm.

In any “without rule of law” scenario you need a real means of protection.
While this may be a shocker to some people if you try and fight with a knife,
even if you have edged weapons training, there is a great chance you are going
to bleed as well.

I hope people who have had the state tell them they don’t need a firearm never
have to figure out that should have been their own choice to make.

~~~
3chelon
And this is the problem with preppers in general. I don't know if it's too
much Walking Dead or just a mindset they have to start with, but as someone
else pointed out they seem to be far more obsessed with guns than with clean
water, sanitation and heating.

Guns aren't very common in my country so I'm not worried about gun-toting
locals rampaging around. Sure, a few might raid a military base or a farmer's
shotgun cabinet, but statistically I think my family would be under _far_ more
threat from hypothermia, cholera or an infected scratch.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
What is it you think happens to your police and government guns when there is
no rule of law?

I’ll give you a hint, there’s a reason the Taliban was walking around with
Soviet era AK-47s, and Isis was walking around with US-made M-16s.

~~~
pjc50
I'm going to post this elsewhere in the thread, but a comment on Metafilter
from someone who survived the siege of Sarajevo:
[https://www.metafilter.com/78669/What-if-things-just-keep-
ge...](https://www.metafilter.com/78669/What-if-things-just-keep-getting-
worse#2430771)

"Guns and weapons helped no one directly and were even of little to no use in
the defense of Sarajevo, since they were toys compared to the shells, bombs
and high-powered armaments of the attacking forces."

~~~
manfredo
There's a broad category of social turmoil that is life threatening but not
quite the magnitude of "professional military starts attacking citizens." Say
bands of political extremists of whatever flavor start attacking towns, or
other smaller-scale (in comparison to outright civil war) acts of violence
erupt. I don't dispute your anecdotes from the Balkans, but using it as
blanket proof to say that firearms won't ever be of benefit in times of civil
unrest is not effective.

~~~
3chelon
You are right, but that's not really an apocalypse but a localised civil war.
Admittedly, it would be good to be prepared for that, but I think leaving the
area altogether would be a more optimal solution than grabbing weapons.

~~~
manfredo
Sure, but leaving the area means abandoning a place of shelter, community, and
potentially a decent chunk of supplies. I agree, plenty of disasters wouldn't
warrant use of firearms, but having them and not needing them is considerably
better than needing them and not having them. Seems like one is strictly
better than the other. I suppose possession of unnecessary firarms could risk
having them stolen or otherwise ending up in the hands of people doing harm -
but seeing as 30-40% of US households possess firearms, this is a moot point.

------
dudul
A blog post I ran into a while ago and found very sensible:
[http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/](http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep/)

You don't have to be a nutcase to prepare for disasters.

------
georgeecollins
The irony of this is that what I have seen from modern societies in collapse*
is that people band together more with their neighbors or tribe and there is
less place for individuals. So maybe it is not going to be you running around
in the woods with a bow, but instead a big group from a nearby camp (or a
wandering tribe) dragging you out of the woods to pump water or prepare food.
Collapse may be disappointing for prepers.

* I am thinking Katrina, Iraq, Syria-- modern places where things have really fallen apart.

~~~
pgruenbacher
yea if you want to prepare for a doomsday, #1 priority is meet and know your
neighbor.

------
SagelyGuru
Well, there is some sense to this. Supposing TSHTF event happens and it is a
nuclear war, there is a good chance that Western Australia will be passed over
in everyone's haste to kill off more threatening enemy targets first.

------
ThinkingGuy
"He acknowledges there might be stigma attached to the word 'prepper' but
stresses it is just about being prepared – whether that is for the armageddon
or just for a flat tyre is up to the individual."

In the US, at least, I recall the term 'prepper' coming along relatively
recently, as a softer, more friendly-sounding replacement for the previous
term, "survivalist," which had acquired a connotation of "irrational, paranoid
gun hoarder type."

Is this a case of the "euphamism treadmill" in action?

~~~
manfredo
I guess one should reserve whatever connotation that comes with the word
"prepper" until after hearing about the event for which this person is
preparing. Preparing for many natural disasters (earthquake, tornado,
hurricane) is very sensible for people who live in said areas. Some man made
situations (infrastructure failures, fires, etc.) as well.

I don't know if it's a case of euphemism treadmill. The older term,
"survivalist" doesn't seem to have the same negative connotation (but does
have the different connotation of focusing more on survival in nature rather
than survivng disasters in society).

------
gumby
The nice thing about urban preppers is _that 's_ the place to go in a
doomsday. They have a ready supply of water, canned goods, and ammo.

I am sure some preppers will in fact be ready, guns loaded, and should not be
approached. These are also likely to be the ones avoiding urban areas anyway.
But the ones I know (fortunately none of whom read HN AFAIK) well enough to
know their prep...are unlikely to actually have their guns readily available.

------
esotericn
Everyone has a hobby. This seems like a pretty bloody useful one.

------
rdiddly
I hear people say they're ready to survive off the land in a remote location,
and I wonder why they don't just move there now & start doing it.

~~~
3chelon
What's more, how are they going to make it out of the city on clogged
highways? Especially when the ICBMs are already airborne?

I live in the country already. We have chickens, and a well. We won't get
murdered in the urban panic. We will probably last a few months... and then
die of disease or starvation like the rest.

~~~
briffle
I used to live in the country, and had to re-assess my assumptions when we had
a several day power outage due to a blizzard. We had propane at the old
farmhouse, but with no power to run the furnace/blower, I could only run the
range (and a small portable propane heater with some spare tanks). There was
no power for the well either. After that, every time the power would go out,
Wife or I would immediately fill up the bathtub with all the water that was in
the pressure tanks. We looked into solar, but the power spikes needed to start
a well pump (or furnace fan) can be pretty high, and need quite a bit of
amperage to get going.

~~~
3chelon
Yes, electricity is a massive problem. You need solar or a wind turbine, and a
lot of car batteries too.

------
edoo
A government report estimated 90% die off after 1 year if the lights go out
due to solar flare or EMP. You can get a basic 1 year supply of food that will
last 20 years in cool storage for under $1000 shipped. That is 3 months for a
family of 4, cheap insurance and peace of mind.

~~~
adrianN
You also need a cool place to store that food, which probably costs a lot more
over twenty years than the food.

~~~
TeMPOraL
And enough people skills and/or guns, ammo and training to protect that food.
After all, all that 90% of people aren't going to just lie down and die.

~~~
edoo
To each his own. Just because someone doesn't believe in guns or defending
their own property doesn't mean it isn't prudent to have a small emergency
stash of food.

~~~
t1540825608
But also, just because some people don't believe in guns, doesn't mean we
should avoid mentioning it. Defense is still an important part of preparation,
and guns are the best tools to accomplish that. If someone wants to reject
that form of defense on philosophical grounds, they're welcome to, but it's
still worth mentioning them as resources for people who may not have such
fixed philosophies.

------
gcb0
didn't expect theguardian to report on oddballs as if they're the norm for
something bigger. everyone have hobbies

------
sambull
The preppers hunker down the un preppered become migrant caravans / climate
based migration is already happening

