
I Can No Longer Recommend Google Fi - hispanic
https://onemileatatime.com/google-fi-review/
======
iandanforth
The lede here is somewhat burried:

"From what I’ve since learned, if a card in your Google Pay is stolen, or
someone uses your Payments account fraudulently, or anything happens that
leads to a security flag being raised, it can lead to your Google Payments
account being frozen.

...

If you can’t use Google Payments, you can’t pay for Google Fi

This, fundamentally, is why I can’t suggest anyone use Project Fi anymore.

...

Getting this fixed is actually impossible, and I say that as someone who
really, truly, loves solving problems and has made a living off getting phone
agents to want to help me.

We have submitted copies of his ID four times, my ID twice, multiple photos of
credit cards, and various credit card statements. We’ve talked to agents and
supervisors at Google Payments and Google Fi. No one is empowered to do
anything, and even a well-intentioned agent doesn’t get the same answer from
the “security department” twice.

I’ve since found hundreds of comments and Reddit threads from people having
similar experiences, with almost zero positive conclusions.

The only suggestion of a solution we’ve been given is that he abandon both his
email address and phone number of the past twenty years and start fresh."

~~~
ronsor
This is a general issue with google. If their system decides it doesn't like
you, then you're out of luck. You'll never get them to fix it.

~~~
ploxiln
This is also a problem with Square, and Stripe, and Paypal ... it's an
unsolvable fraud/scammer problem.

Basically, if there was customer support that could fix the problem, then
skilled scammers can get money and control out of them. They can do it a lot
better than you can get your stuff re-enabled, they know just when to say what
to whom.

Verizon just accepts the inefficiency, and also over-charges random customers,
sometimes hands over control of a phone number to a scammer so they can get
auth codes over SMS, has clueless support, etc. Google hasn't accepted this
way of the world yet (but in scaling up the support has necessarily become
disempowered).

It is very frustrating. It's a nature of things going mass-market. Just a few
people, everything can be nice. Too many people, scams and fraud become big
problems.

~~~
mjevans
I believe these issues could be solved by actually taxing corporations and
providing the service they clearly so desperately need.

An /actual/ (inter)national ID and Identity verification service. One where
disputes about identity and authorization can be escalated somewhere that
makes sense, to the jurisdictions issuing these IDs.

Ideally someone should be able to go to a police station (locally for local
IDs, if on vacation/out of hometown in liaison between departments) and have
their identity verified in a trusted way, and that verification reported as
pass/fail to a third party whom is asking.

This would also be the way of officially disputing fraudulent uses of
identity; they would be reported via the same actions, but as a customer
initiation (and statement of legal testimony taken in a case that would then
be opened and reported to the involved parties).

BTW, such a system SHOULD also include address resolution, for physical mail,
voice, and electronic services (any sub-name actually).

I would LOVE to only update my address in ONE place when I move, instead of
trying to remember everyone I've ever given it to.

~~~
marcus_holmes
I don't have a physical address (I move approximately every 3 weeks). I don't
have a phone number (I move country every 3 weeks and need a new SIM each
time).

I have so many problems with online authentication it's not funny.

So yeah, I'd love a global system of identification, but please let's not tie
it to an address or phone number

~~~
toomuchtodo
Passport number along with cryptographic authentication similar to Estonia’s
ID card. I believe this satisfies the need for authentication of all citizens
at a global scope.

~~~
threeseed
Not everyone has passports let alone valid ones.

And getting one for people can be difficult as many people especially older
ones don't have supporting documentation e.g. birth certificates and so can't
prove identity.

~~~
toomuchtodo
You can’t function as a citizen of a country without identity documents.
Passport national ID cards, in my opinion, the optimal solution to the
problem. Issuance can be streamlined, and cost can be absorbed for those who
can’t afford it.

Society requires foundations.

~~~
dragonwriter
> You can’t function as a citizen of a country without identity documents.

Sure you can. Identity documents exist more to prevent (the “wrong") people
from functioning as citizens than to enable people to do so.

~~~
tooop
If you look young, how can you even buy alcohol or cigarettes (in my countries
case even energy drinks) or get in a club? In my country each citizen must
have an identity document - either a passport or ID card (drivers license
doesn't count). I can't see it any other way as you need to ID yourself in
stores (in the mentioned case if you look young and want to buy
alcohol/cigarettes/energy drink), post office when receiving package, getting
drivers licence, opening bank account, getting loans etc.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> If you look young, how can you even buy alcohol or cigarettes (in my
> countries case even energy drinks) or get in a club?

It is possible to go your entire life without ever doing any of those things,
or having any desire to. And as a general rule, it's the people who _are_ of
legal age who least care to do them. Also, some countries don't have age
restrictions on such things to begin with (or don't enforce them at all).

> post office when receiving package

Who goes to the post office to _receive_ a package? They come to you, and are
then satisfied by the fact that they delivered the package to the address on
the label.

> getting drivers licence

This a major reason why this is pointless. If you're going to have an ID, how
do you identify yourself to get the ID? It's fully circular. You can't prove
who you are unless you can already prove who you are, in which case you
already have an ID.

In the US a large percentage of the population don't have passports. When you
get a driver's license, they nominally ask you for some other ID, most of
which (e.g. birth certificates or company/school IDs they have no way to
authenticate) are trivially forged and useless at proving the person is who
they say. Because it has to be that way -- you can't make having an ID a
condition of getting an ID.

The whole idea is silly. Identity is context. If you create an email address
with Google, you set a password. Then Google knows you're the person that
email address belongs to because you're the one with the password. Your
government "identity" has nothing to do with it, nor should it.

> opening bank account

The _only_ reason banks care about this is that the government requires them
to. Otherwise they would be completely satisfied to give you a numbered
account with no person's name attached and simply put a hold on your deposits
until after they've cleared, as they do for most anyone regardless.

> getting loans etc.

To get a loan what they care about is whether you're creditworthy, not what
your name is. Prove that you have a job and a history of paying back debts, or
post some collateral, that's what they want.

One system by which they automate this is to have credit reporting agencies
that aggregate this information and associate it with your name, but there is
no inherent reason it has to be done that way -- and some good reasons not to.
See Equifax data breach.

~~~
tooop
> It is possible to go your entire life without ever doing any of those
> things, or having any desire to. And as a general rule, it's the people who
> are of legal age who least care to do them. Also, some countries don't have
> age restrictions on such things to begin with (or don't enforce them at
> all).

Yes it is possible but you are describing outliers. Which first world country
doesn't have age restrictions on alcohol or tobacco?

> Who goes to the post office to receive a package? They come to you, and are
> then satisfied by the fact that they delivered the package to the address on
> the label.

Envelopes and small packages (which fit) are left in mail box. In order to get
everything else you have to go to your post office. Courier services deliver
package to you personally and they don't leave it at your doorstep so anyone
can steal it.

> This a major reason why this is pointless. If you're going to have an ID,
> how do you identify yourself to get the ID? It's fully circular. You can't
> prove who you are unless you can already prove who you are, in which case
> you already have an ID.

I don't really know how it is done today but in theory you could prove it by
taking DNA/fingerprints at birth and registering accordingly.

> The only reason banks care about this is that the government requires them
> to. Otherwise they would be completely satisfied to give you a numbered
> account with no person's name attached and simply put a hold on your
> deposits until after they've cleared, as they do for most anyone regardless.

We are talking about reality not a situation where government regulations
doesn't exist so there is no way of having a bank account if you don't have
some sort of ID.

> To get a loan what they care about is whether you're creditworthy, not what
> your name is. Prove that you have a job and a history of paying back debts,
> or post some collateral, that's what they want.

This is just plain wrong, they care about the identity in case you stop paying
so they can go after you.

P.S. You also need ID to own property, companies etc. I can't deny that if you
are living in the middle of woods off grid you might get by without an ID but
if you are an average person you will need an ID eventually.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> Yes it is possible but you are describing outliers. Which first world
> country doesn't have age restrictions on alcohol or tobacco?

In many parts of the US the restrictions are not actually enforced, or you can
prove your age using non-government-issued identification.

I also dispute your assertion that people who don't drink or smoke are
outliers. The majority of people don't smoke and a large minority don't drink.
In some major cultures and religions drinking is outright prohibited.

> Envelopes and small packages (which fit) are left in mail box. In order to
> get everything else you have to go to your post office. Courier services
> deliver package to you personally and they don't leave it at your doorstep
> so anyone can steal it.

In the US they leave it at your doorstep so anyone can steal it, because in
practice hardly anybody actually steals it. Who is going to risk federal
prison or getting shot by the homeowner over a mystery box which is probably
just a $25 bulk pack of shampoo?

> I don't really know how it is done today but in theory you could prove it by
> taking DNA/fingerprints at birth and registering accordingly.

This doesn't work for anyone who is already an adult, and isn't already being
done for newborns so won't work for them either, which means you've got more
than a hundred years before something like that could be used without having
living people it doesn't work for. It also fails permanently for anyone born
and raised in another country.

On top of that, it _still_ isn't solving the unsolved problem, which is
identity theft. You can't use DNA or fingerprints over the internet (they're
trivially forged if you control the reader), so they're just going to issue
you a card or a PIN or some other thing you can use and then someone can
steal/hack/forge it and impersonate you. Being able to prove your DNA doesn't
disprove that you're the person who used your card+PIN to buy $50,000 in
already-provided goods and services, or pay for an email account used to send
spam etc.

> We are talking about reality not a situation where government regulations
> doesn't exist so there is no way of having a bank account if you don't have
> some sort of ID.

We don't have mandatory national ID cards either. If the proposal is to make a
policy change to improve things, let it be the one that doesn't double down on
a bad idea.

Also, around a quarter of Americans and half of people in India don't actually
have a bank account, largely because they don't have any money to put in it
and can't afford the fees that come with not having a minimum balance. So they
get paid in cash, or something they immediately convert to cash, and pay for
everything with that.

> This is just plain wrong, they care about the identity in case you stop
> paying so they can go after you.

That is why they require collateral. If you take out a mortgage they put a
lien on the house. If you don't pay, they take the house. If you're on a beach
in Argentina with a million dollars in cash in a briefcase, what does the bank
care as long as the house sells for more than they're owed?

> P.S. You also need ID to own property, companies etc.

There are millions of people who _don 't_ own real property or companies, or
even cars.

And even then, it doesn't require a national ID -- they all exist without it.
They even predate modern identification. Because all of those things are
local. If you want to transfer property, you go to a notary. The notary will
want to know who you are, but that doesn't mean national ID. They could just
take a picture of you and keep it for their records, or accept a non-
government ID or an oath from a person known in the community that you are who
you say you are.

Centralized identification is at the same time unnecessary and actively
harmful.

~~~
tooop
> In the US they leave it at your doorstep so anyone can steal it, because in
> practice hardly anybody actually steals it. Who is going to risk federal
> prison or getting shot by the homeowner over a mystery box which is probably
> just a $25 bulk pack of shampoo?

Nearly 1/3 of of people in USA have experienced package theft and it is only a
federal crime if you steal USPS packages not Fedex/DHL/UPS etc.

> That is why they require collateral. If you take out a mortgage they put a
> lien on the house. If you don't pay, they take the house. If you're on a
> beach in Argentina with a million dollars in cash in a briefcase, what does
> the bank care as long as the house sells for more than they're owed?

I can get a personal loan without any kind of collateral as long as i have X
income. Credit cards doesn't have collateral as well.

Honestly, i feel that we live in different worlds - i cannot fathom not having
an official ID as there are occasions where i must have it (voting, travel,
banking as well as government e-services where you can use bank login or your
ID card certificate to identify yourself). There isn't a lot of press or
reports from Personal Data Watchdog about somebody doing monetary damage from
using other people data, in fact our ID numbers (like SSN) in some cases are
public knowledge. I am not saying that our system can't be abused but right
now i feel like it works just fine and i wouldn't want it any other way.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> Nearly 1/3 of of people in USA have experienced package theft and it is only
> a federal crime if you steal USPS packages not Fedex/DHL/UPS etc.

That statistic is from a survey done by Comcast as a precursor to trying to
sell you a home security system. That is not a reliable source.

And stealing a non-USPS package is still a state crime, so the main difference
is whose jail you sit in. Unless you manage to steal something which is
actually worth a lot of money, or is involved in interstate commerce etc., in
which case welcome back to federal prison.

> I can get a personal loan without any kind of collateral as long as i have X
> income. Credit cards doesn't have collateral as well.

These are small loans, in which case the collateral is your job. They verify
where you work, so if you don't pay they know where to find you. The only way
to avoid them finding you is to quit your job, which they don't expect to be
worth it for you to do over such a modest amount of money. Notice that the
interest rates on those kinds of loans are dramatically higher -- because of
the risk that they're wrong. If it was really your identity doing most of the
work you would expect the interest rates to be much closer to those for loans
with more substantial collateral.

> There isn't a lot of press or reports from Personal Data Watchdog about
> somebody doing monetary damage from using other people data

According to DOJ statistics, more than 17 million people in the US are victims
of identity theft per year.

> Honestly, i feel that we live in different worlds - i cannot fathom not
> having an official ID as there are occasions where i must have it (voting,
> travel, banking as well as government e-services where you can use bank
> login or your ID card certificate to identify yourself).

You feel that way because you live in a place where having an official ID is
required to do everything. That isn't a law of nature, it's just a law of the
place you live. It's completely reasonable to do things a different way.

------
jessriedel
> Google Fi won’t restore service or allow your number to be ported out until
> the bill is paid, so around and around we go.

I'm surprised this is legal. Number portability isn't something phone
companies offer out of the kindness of their heart; it's required by law. Does
the law really allow them to hold the number hostage as part of a payment
dispute?

EDIT: Nope, this is illegal:

> Once you request service from a new company, your old company cannot refuse
> to port your number, even if you owe money for an outstanding balance or
> termination fee

[https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-
ph...](https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/porting-keeping-your-phone-number-
when-you-change-providers)

I looks like the OP should file a complaint (and if necessary sue?) over this
point.

Indeed, this is so clear cut it makes me doubt the OP's story. Does Google Fi
say they do this anywhere?

~~~
jessriedel
This Reddit thread concluded that because a T-mobile account was suspended for
non-payment and the number is unportable while suspended that the customer was
out of luck.

[https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/4wotw8/tmobile_won...](https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/4wotw8/tmobile_wont_let_me_port_my_number_due_to_overdue/)

I don't see how that matters legally. The FCC requirement doesn't make
portability conditional on some account status defined by the carrier. But
IANAL.

~~~
pxeboot
Since T-Mobile holds the primary numbers for Google Fi accounts, going from
T-Mobile to Fi legally isn't a port, just a change in T-Mobiles billing
system.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Yes. You’ll want to force a port from Google to AT&T or Verizon, and then back
to T-Mobile if that’s who you want to end up with.

If your port is delayed or denied, file a complaint with the FCC, as this
starts the regulatory review clock ticking.

~~~
slenk
Does that clock still tick with the government shutdown?

~~~
mattnewton
IANAL but I assume so. It’s just the enforcement that would wait.

------
rroblak
Google is, fundamentally, an engineering company. Despite their size and
breadth, they still don't understand customer support. Their approach is to
use software to solve problems, and they insist on doing so even when it's
clear that software isn't up to the task.

Unfortunately, customer support is a hard problem. Despite all of the advances
in NLP, I still abhor automated customer support systems when I have a complex
issue. Just let me talk to a human.

Google long ago ran the numbers on providing human customer support and
realized it's not the sort of ultra-scalable business function that they like
to invest in. Rather, they'd like to believe that they can build software
systems that don't require human customer support. As an end user, this feels
like too much hubris and not enough empathy. It may work from the perspective
of a product manager looking at percentages on a dashboard, but it sucks as
someone in the real world trying to get something done with one of their
products that's not functioning as it should.

I use the full suite of Google Products, including Project/Google Fi. This
article describes one of my nightmares— getting locked out of my Google
account. I'm fortunate that I have good friends that work at Google that could
help out in such a worst-case scenario. This blogger is fortunate, too.
Undoubtedly, some Googler will read this post and help them out.

But the average person isn't so lucky. If you're Jane or Joe Schmoe in Middle
America, you're going to be screwed when your Google account goes haywire.
I've had friends whose Google accounts have gotten into weird states that
prevented them from using Google services for no obvious reason. I suspect
this is due to an unfortunate consequence of Conway's Law [1] at work in
Google's identity implementation.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law)

~~~
wpietri
I don't think engineering is the problem here. As an example, Toyota, a very
engineering-driven company, is also famous for customer focus.

I think the problem is that Google is mostly about selling users' eyeballs to
their real customers, advertisers. That's not a business of making individual
users happy; it's essentially statistical in nature. With a search engine, if
something works for 80 or 90% of people, that's great. If it's bad for the
rest, well, tough luck for them. It's very hard to go from that to seeing each
individual as valuable and important.

~~~
ehsankia
it costs $xxK to buy a car. It costs 0$ to use Gmail, Drive, Youtube, etc.
These two are not gonna have the same level of customer support. Fi is a paid
service, and I do expect it to have a better support (which in my own
experience, they do), but to compare Google as a whole to Toyota doesn't seem
fair.

~~~
dhimes
Your parent's point though is that with the free offerings, you're not the
customer. Google's advertisers are.

With the paid offerings you _are_ the customer and comparing Google's CS to
Toyota's or anybody else's is entirely fair.

~~~
ehsankia
To which I agree. Fi should and (normally) does have much much better customer
support than average free Google products.

------
dstaley
Stories like this make me incredibly wary about the future of my Google
account. I've been using it for almost twelve years. It has a copy of every
photo/video I've taken for almost eight years. It's what I use to download
apps, listen to music, and pay for things, and get around. I'd be absolutely
devastated if I suddenly lost it. I've been planning for a while now a sort of
contingency plan where I regularly backup my emails and photos, but from what
I've read even that's difficult to do.

~~~
8ytecoder
Every time a comment like this comes up I say the same thing: Your email
address is very very valuable and everything in the digital world is tied to
it one way or the other. Own the domain so you can port it to another
provider. Keep a copy of your emails somewhere - a mail app on your laptop?

If you use drive, sync it fully to a laptop.

It's not just Google, any service - paid or free, can and will shutdown your
account. It's something you have to assume will happen to you - not just some
random stranger on the internet. I don't know about you but I definitely don't
want to deal with losing all my digital documents, pictures and most important
all my accounts by losing my email address.

No one should be complacent about this.

~~~
EduardoBautista
You know, I currently use my own domain for email.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I worry about that when I die, my domain will expire,
and then someone will register that domain and set up email accounts with it.

They would be able to access so many services that I would have left open
after my death. I still don't know how to handle this apart from leaving a
fund to someone I trust to have my domain renewed for a few more decades after
my death.

~~~
dstaley
You don't even need to die for this to be an issue. Your registrar could just
screw up and sell your domain to someone else. Or your registrar could have a
security breach resulting in your domain being transferred. There's a myriad
of ways the "own your domain" solution could fail, so it's really about which
risks you're willing to take.

~~~
EduardoBautista
Yes, I have thought about this as well.

One of the reasons I am in the process of moving all of my domains to Gandi is
because they appear to be the only reputable domain registrar that supports
U2F. I take security extremely seriously when it comes to my domains.

~~~
techsupporter
> One of the reasons I am in the process of moving all of my domains to Gandi
> is because they appear to be the only reputable domain registrar that
> supports U2F.

I use Gandi and am quite pleased with their security settings. Not only is my
account secured with an absurdly long password, I have U2F enabled and I have
enabled the IP restriction list so that authentication only succeeds when
coming from one of them. They even fixed my only quibble. In the past, if I
logged in with valid credentials but from an unlisted IP, the error message
would say "you're coming from an IP that's not permitted." Now the message for
all types of failures--bad password, wrong IP, incorrect TOTP code--is the
same so an attacker can't confirm valid credentials.

------
sithadmin
I abandoned Fi after a trip to western Europe, where I was billed for 6 GB of
usage in a single day on one of my data-only SIM cards, despite that the
device the SIM was installed in (a 4G hotspot) registered only 200MB of usage
that day.

Support was completely unhelpful, and after escalation reported back that the
Fi team has zero visibility into chargebacks from their carrier partners and
ergo could not diagnose the cause of the usage discrepancy. The lack of
accountability on Fi's part, in addition to various annoyances (handset
tendency to select Sprint coverage despite poor performance; handset tendency
to override manual carrier selection to the detriment of service reliability;
generally worse reliability and coverage than my previous carrier) led me to
move back to Verizon. I pay an arm and a leg for my service, but at least it's
highly reliable and available.

~~~
magduf
I just went to western Europe (Germany specifically), and spend 15 Euros for
phone service there. It's simple: I just bought a SIM card at a shop (O2) and
put it in my Verizon phone. I got a prepaid card that had unlimited text/calls
(within Germany only), and 3GB of data, which was far more than enough for my
2 weeks there.

Cellular service is much cheaper in Europe than in the US, so you might as
well take advantage of it. International calling plans for American phones are
horrendously overpriced.

Of course, the downside is that I couldn't call or text anyone in the States,
but who cares? That's what apps are for. I was able to talk to and message
friends/family in the US using Facebook messenger and LINE. While on my
hotel's free WiFi, my VoIP calls cost me nothing.

~~~
brewdad
My son will be traveling to Europe this summer for a school trip. He'll be
spending time in 6 or 7 different countries (UK, France, Germany, Switzerland
and a couple more I can't remember right now)

Is there a better option than Fi for this type of trip?

~~~
theintern
Definitely get a cheap sim card wherever he lands. The EU abolished all
roaming charges for data and calls so he'll be able to use whatever data and
calls he has in all EU countries.

Some countries have extremely good value pre paid sim cards with 20 gigs of
data often coming in under €20 a month.

~~~
pbalau
No roaming charges between members of EU. So, if he lands first in UK, don't
buy the sim from there

------
aaomidi
Companies like google shouldn't be allowed to just ban someone's account and
leave it at that. We actually need to regulate how OUR data is handled and
managed by companies. Google thinks just because they provide an email
service, they own all the emails in their service. This should not be the case
and with all our reliance on cloud services, we need to be assured that our
accounts are safe and we won't be denied access over stuff that isn't in our
control.

~~~
fastball
Email is a federated system.

If you don't like how Google handles it, run your own mail server.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
That's kind of a ridiculous statement these days. It's a bit like saying
"Worried about e coli contamination in your food? Run your own farm."

These days, running a mail server is a complicated business, and the very fact
that you ARE running your own server makes it much, much more likely that all
the _other_ mail servers consider you a spam relay unless you are very, very
careful about how you have configured things.

~~~
username223
This is a pet peeve. SMTP goes to insane lengths to ensure that messages are
never lost, but spam filters have broken those guarantees. I don't manage my
own SMTP server, but my mail is hosted on a personal domain not backed by
GMail, and I can never be sure if it has been delivered.

------
buf
I just traveled to Japan, the Phil, Bulgaria, San Francisco, and Boston
without having to change sim cards or worry about my data situation. I'm going
to keep it until someone else can do the same at a lower price.

~~~
faitswulff
Why not T-Mobile?

~~~
mcrae
TMO only gives 2G internationally which, while it doesn’t sound terrible, it
ends up being unusable in practice. Your experience may vary though I guess.

~~~
teraflop
T-Mobile's throttling does a great job of highlighting how bloated a lot of
modern websites have gotten.

The last time I tried using it overseas, text-heavy sites like HN loaded
almost as fast as normal. Reddit was mostly usable, but certain subreddits
were painfully slow due to image-heavy custom styles. But try to load an
article from a typical news website, and the connection would time out before
it managed to render anything.

~~~
chris11
It's not a horrible solution though. I'm kind of cheap, I don't want to pay
for unlimited data. So I have an inexpensive plan with T-Mobile that gets
throttled. But I can still have some internet access for free once I go over
my limit.

------
CPLX
She should sue Google. Serious response. This kind of thing is bullshit, and
she has a legal right to have the number ported, especially if she’s been
willing to pay the bill and has not been able to due to Google’s technical
problems.

File a lawsuit for the value of the time she’s had to spend on it and an order
to show cause or temporary restraining order type motion for them to release
the number to her.

It’s too bad the legal system is so intimidating to people because more people
doing this might one day wake companies up a little.

Needless to say this doesn’t contradict the advice to not use the service in
the first place.

~~~
hojjat12000
I have no idea what you just said. To understand that I need to see a lawyer,
pay hundreds of dollars to be told what my right is, and how I can proceed.
Then probably invest thousands of dollars in a lawsuit. At least that's how I
see it. Unless there is an app that you click a button and you sue Google for
free that I don't know about.

~~~
CPLX
I mean, you could look up those things and read a few blog posts and then do
them. I’m not a lawyer either it’s not that complicated.

You have to do a little research to figure out how to use the subway system or
buy a car too. It’s just another system, isn’t this a board full of people
who’ve taught themselves how to handle extraordinarily complex rules based
systems?

There’s something about legal stuff that makes people freeze up. Go to the
courthouse, ask them, sign up for whatever volunteer lawyer help desk program
they have (they almost always do) and figure it out. Takes an afternoon or
two.

Use Google. Harness the enemy’s powers against them.

------
netinstructions
This really hits home. Probably 99.999% of users won't have issues with
Google's products / services, but if you're one of the unlucky few, you're
helpless.

All you can hope for is to make enough noise on the internet to get a
Googler's attention. None of the normal escalation channels work.

My issues with Project Fi / Google Store were not resolved via their online
chat, nor their phone support, nor emails to their product support, nor any of
my posts on their product support forums, nor any tweets at various Google
accounts.

Only after a blog post received attention on Reddit did I get a call from head
of support who was able to resolve my issue.

------
AlexB138
She's definitely right that the quality of their support has tanked. I've had
significant connection issues where people on other carriers have none and
their support personnel sent me useless boilerplate questions after I
requested support. They then followed up with a multi-page incoherent trouble
shooting doc that seemed aimed at their own engineers. One of the worst
support experiences I've had, even from Google.

When I first signed up they had fantastic support, now it's worse than what I
expect from Comcast.

~~~
jahabrewer
She _

~~~
AlexB138
Ah, you're correct. I mistook the top poster here, iandanforth, as saying they
were the author. Edited.

------
andr
I had a few unsuccessful back and forths with different Fi agents about an
issue, and after a couple of weird remarks, I developed the theory that first
level agents get their performance scores penalized every time they escalate
an issue. I would have them go through the same script over and over for over
an hour, and even sometimes admit that I had an issue, but refuse to press
that button. I have no hard evidence, but that was my read from the
conversations, and would explain the bad support experience overall.

~~~
Merad
Close, but not quite. Call centers are designed to make the general support
(tier 1) agents effectively flesh and blood robots. These are jobs that might
start at $10 an hour if you’re lucky, have little training, and typically very
high turnover rates. Even if you get a competent/experienced agent who has
literally seen your problem a thousand times and knows that step 3 of the
script will always fix it, they will be penalized if they skip the first two
steps. Likewise, they will be penalized if they transfer you to tier 2 until
they get to the step in the script that says, “transfer to tier 2.” It doesn’t
matter if you’ve had this exact problem 5 times before and every instance
required tier 2. Doesn’t matter if you were just talking to another agent who
ran the whole script and screwed up your transfer. The only way you might get
lucky is if you’re lucky enough to have some kind of open case or note on the
account that instructs them to transfer you directly.

------
honkycat
> We have submitted copies of his ID four times, my ID twice, multiple photos
> of credit cards, and various credit card statements. We’ve talked to agents
> and supervisors at Google Payments and Google Fi. No one is empowered to do
> anything, and even a well-intentioned agent doesn’t get the same answer from
> the “security department” twice.

This was my EXACT experience with the google store. And Google Cloud gold
level support. And google payments.

Google just doesn't make good products. I am consistently astounded at how
SHITTY the google home is. It STILL can't make a to-do list.

The Google store sold me a defective pair of headphones. But the defect was
due to a design flaw, so the headphones broke AGAIN after they sent me a new
one. I then replaced my phone on warranty. Same headphone defect.

So I was going through about one pair of headphones a month for four
months[0]. I kept doing it because I enjoyed wasting google's money and
abusing their bureaucracy, but I also REALLY wanted a working pair of
headphones. Just a total nightmare. I once lost my tempter at the poor guy on
the phone, and his response was: "Don't worry about it. You are handling this
way better than I would."

0: Sometimes two!

------
mcrae
Despite everything else said, I’ve gotta say that there’s no better feeling
than touching down in a new place, turning on your phone, and having it _just
work_.

No stupid voip apps. No managing prepaid balances. No switching sims. Just
direct dial and go.

Fi service is incredible for the mobile roaming alone and I’m not quite sure
why nobody else can do it. I love it so much and it’s my favorite product. It
makes a measurable positive impact in my life.

~~~
rootusrootus
Is that not normal with other carriers? I've made multiple trips abroad and
aside from an occasional delay of a few minutes, my phone just works wherever
I go.

~~~
ufo
For many carriers the roaming costs are so outrageous you may as well pretend
that it is not an option.

------
drewg123
I'm going through something similar with Lyft. I got a new pixel phone, had to
re-setup my account in an airport added my cards, and was unable to hail a
ride due to some "oops, there was a problem, try again" error with both the
cards I entered. That was 9 months ago. To this day, I've been unable to use
Lyft, and I can't get anybody to really look at the issue.

I'm not sure why they don't want to take my money, but for now, I just use
Uber. Hopefully they won't decide they hate met too.

~~~
SamWhited
Please look up information about Uber's business practices and don't use them.
A few minor technical problems are _nothing_ compared to how bad Uber is.
Disclaimer: Austin resident who is still mad at both of them for all the
massive lies they published all over the city and the huge amount of our money
and time they wasted with their stupid campaign to not have to fingerprint
drivers.

~~~
strictnein
> "A few minor technical problems"

If they're literally unable to use a service because of a glitch, it's not a
"minor technical problem".

~~~
SamWhited
So? There are plenty of other alternatives anywhere.

------
devicenull
I've been trying to get Fi to resolve a billing issue.... I'm stuck in a loop
with support where they keep asking me for a security code, then the next day
they'll respond back saying it expired and they need another one. The codes
only seem to be valid for 30m, so I don't have any idea why they keep asking
for them...

------
Sodman
Came here to echo the drop in service quality complaint. I joined Fi in the
early days. The first time I called in it was about some rather complex (to
me) networking issues where the phone was rejecting a WiFi direct connection
because it couldn't detect internet service on the other side or some such. I
could swear I was talking to a network engineer - he was super helpful and
very technical. And that was the guy who just picked up the phone, no
escalation needed!

Fast forward a few years and I had a minor question about a special promo they
were running, connected to an offshore support team with broken English and
copy/paste template responses that may as well have come from a chatbot.

------
bane
I can. I don't want to take away from Google's user hostile practices etc.,
but Fi is kind of a must have for people who travel overseas frequently but
don't stay in a particular country long enough to subscribe to the local
mobile system.

You can almost always find a better local deal that works great if you don't
move around too much, but Fi is a fantastic "common denominator". Since I've
had it I've traveled to...maybe 15 countries in Europe, Central America and
Asia and it's worked amazingly well and turned otherwise expensive roaming
charges or juggling of sims into normal operations.

It has a weird kind of "global citizen" feel to it that I've never felt any
other way. Step off the plane, turn your phone off airplane mode and you're
good to go.

Driving across Europe and I received "welcome to <country>" while using Google
maps just like driving across the U.S. where it says "welcome to <state>".

It's also pretty cheap, even if you blow your usage caps and try to go
unlimited (Google will cap the charges at some point).

If you stay in one place or travel abroad rarely, I'd say skip it, you can get
a local provider with more service cheaper. But if you might end up in an
unknown country and just don't want the hassle, it's pretty awesome.

------
ndiscussion
Google Fi sucks, it's way too expensive. The last several years have seen an
explosion of MVNOs, mobile virtual network operators. I use Mint Sim and get
3gb LTE/month with unlimited talk and text, and unlimited throttled internet
after the 3gb, for $15/month.

~~~
el_benhameen
Are there any downsides to Mint? I thought I was getting a pretty good deal
with t-mobile, but damn, $15 a month is pretty tempting.

~~~
holidaygoose
Only two things I noticed when comparing on their website. 1) lock in
contracts, and 2) they piggyback off the T-Mobile network while Google Fi
dynamically uses the best of 3 networks. Otherwise seems like a pretty frugal
option.

~~~
sithadmin
>they piggyback off the T-Mobile network while Google Fi dynamically uses the
best of 3 networks

This happens only in theory, not practice with Fi. As a Fi launch customer
that stuck with Fi through late 2017, Sprint (and later US Cellular) service
was always terrible and frequently unusable, no matter what metro area I used
it in. My experience improved dramatically when I just kept my Nexus device
around as a spare, and moved my primary SIM to an iPhone, where it was
permanently locked to using TMO.

------
shhun
I'm a bit concerned about all the people here that tell they've been using
Google services for decades and are afraid to loose their
pictures/documents/etc... I mean how is giving such control over your data to
one company a good idea in the first place ? I'm not saying that in
patronizing way, but this should not be considered as normal behavior. I think
that Google has already access to way much more data than it should and I
really wouldn't want to hand them my phone bill. Even if you're not concerned
about your privacy (and I really think you should), centralizing everything
will only make problems worse if something happens with this one service,
should it be Google, Apple or anyone else.

------
sogrady
I can understand why people criticize it, but I personally like Fi. The
multiple carriers give me coverage in areas I don't expect it like Maine
islands or the Sangre de Cristo foothills, and the price is reasonable if not
the lowest available.

Additionally, the one time I've had to contact support, I had an email reply
in 27 minutes.

Throw in perks like the seamless international support (if you travel
internationally at all this is tremendous) and the data SIM for an iPad, and
I've been pretty happy with the service.

That could all change the next time I need support if they're still
overwhelmed with new users, but so far so good.

------
drewblaisdell
Maybe someone on HN will know the answer to this: is it easy to enable/disable
service with Google Fi? My use case is to use Fi while traveling
internationally for a few months out of the year while switching back to my
existing plan in the US. I only want to pay for Fi in the months when I'm out
of the country.

~~~
sithadmin
You can pause Fi service for a few months at a time.

However, Google will catch on to your proposed usage pattern and will
eventually boot you from the platform. Majority usage outside the USA violate
ToS.

There are plenty of stories on r/projectfi about this. I've also had a
personal friend that was booted after he subscribed to Fi, then moved out of
the USA month later for a temporary work assignment, and was booted from Fi a
few months later for violating ToS.

~~~
saagarjha
> Majority usage outside the USA violate ToS.

I'm not seeing this listed here:
[https://fi.google.com/about/tos/](https://fi.google.com/about/tos/). What are
the guidelines behind this?

~~~
splonk
"The Services are offered only to residents of the United States. The Services
must be primarily used in the United States and are not intended for extended
international use. Further, the Services are designed for use predominantly
within our network. If your usage outside our network is excessive, abnormally
high, or cause us to incur too much cost, we may, at our option and sole
discretion, suspend your Google Fi account, terminate your service, or limit
your use of roaming."

------
tarikozket
I switched to Google Fi from Verizon last month. I tested it in the Bay Area,
Southern California and Florida. The service quality sucked unimaginably. I
literally had to use my iPhone like an antenna in the office in San Francisco
to have a phone call. The internet sucked badly as well.

I switched back to Verizon and Google Fi made me feel thankful to have
Verizon.

------
exabrial
Yet another reason why "your phone number is your identity" (aka sms "2fA") is
a horrible horrible horrible idea, especially for payment companies.

If you're paying your cell bill with your credit card, and your credit card
requires sms authentication, you've entered an infinite loop.

------
roland35
I am happy with Fi, and have been a customer for 2.5 years so far. There are
certainly many use cases in which Fi is way more expensive, but that is the
case with any carrier.

I think as far as customer support I have had more problems with Verizon than
Fi, but your mileage may vary!

------
ta1234567890
About a year ago I tried getting Google Fi. Ordered a phone online, paid about
$300. Then it never arrived.

When I talked to support, first they made me wait for about a week to confirm
on their end that the phone was lost. Then their only solution was to process
a refund (which took them another week to do), after which I would've had to
purchase the same phone again.

Talked to a bunch of their support staff to no avail. They just would not send
another phone. Seems like completely the opposite of what Amazon would have
done (and probably the main reason why I'm a happy Amazon customer after over
a decade, whereas I never looked back after the bad experience with Google
Fi).

------
overtmind
Anyone notice a theme here?

Every failure of google has _something_ to do with the fact that they're
automating so far that it ends up being downright harmful. Youtube, Google
Pay, Google Cloud, etc

I've even heard of similar stories about using Google Cloud, where the system
can flag your account and basically your entire business is _deleted_ due to
an automated process!

[https://medium.com/@serverpunch/why-you-should-not-use-
googl...](https://medium.com/@serverpunch/why-you-should-not-use-google-
cloud-75ea2aec00de)

Though they seem to have reigned that in a bit here:
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/18/google_cloud_platfo...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/07/18/google_cloud_platform_account_suspensions/)

I get the feeling in the short term they'll double-down on automation/AI until
it's good enough nobody notices.

I wonder if they have a pulse on how their businesses are suffering because of
that perception, though. When your company has a stigma of it being nearly
impossible to reach a human being to get things done - is it really a surprise
that my colleagues and I won't recommend google cloud as a service provider?

------
rmason
I've had accounts with Verizon, Sprint and tMobile. On their worst day Google
Fi is head and shoulders above them, it's not even close. I've used cell
phones for thirty years and my time on Fi is the most stress free in all that
time.

Having said that Google needs to do a better job at customer service. But so
do Facebook and Amazon, both of which have caused me major problems.

~~~
aidenn0
Sprint support was incompetent, but they were at least as likely to make an
error in your favor as not, so you could just call a couple times until you
got the result you wanted.

Verizon's support was mediocre, but it idn't take too much persistence to
escalate things to someone who could actually make a decision.

The recent stories I've heard of Fi's support make it sound like when
something goes wrong, the easiest thing to do is to just open a new gmail
account and switch to using that, which is a bit mind boggling.

~~~
rmason
I was in a Verizon store and was asked to leave or they'd call the police. My
crime was to insist they honor a deal they advertised on their website.
Offered to bring it up on one of their own computers when they insisted that I
was wrong. Then I was asked not so politely to leave.

------
xibalba
I have had a similar recent experience with Fi after having used their service
for three years now, and I would also no longer recommend Fi. This is very
disappointing because Fi's customer service was once _fantastic_.

I had many time consuming and useless interactions via phone, chat, and email
with Fi's support reps over the course of a month to solve a simple issue.
After growing increasingly frustrated, I requested that the issue be escalated
to an employee with actual sway, but the reps refused to escalate it beyond
one level up to a "specialist" who was of no help. I finally tracked down on
LinkedIn a Fi higher up who works at the mothership in Mountain View (all
contacts thus far were with what was clearly an offshore team). I DM'ed them
directly via LinkedIn to explain my issue. This action resulted in a complete
resolution of my problem within 5 days. This _absolutely_ shouldn't be
necessary to address what was a very straightforward problem, and does not
augur well for Fi's future.

------
tinyhouse
I can relate. We have two Fi phones and there are bunch of problems: 1\. If
you use the max 10G every month it's pretty expensive. 2\. Support is indeed
bad. I once contacted them via the app and was told someone will reach out to
me within 24 hours. No one did. 3\. There are technical problems such as
people calling me when I'm on wifi and they cannot hear me when I answer and
instead go directly to voice mail. I was told to clear the cache but it's not
always helpful.

Things I like about Fi: 1\. It's really nice that it works pretty much in
every country. I travel often and it's supper convenient. (it's more expensive
than getting a local sim in many countries but more convenient). 2\. I don't
need to listen to messages since they get transcribed automatically. (I'm
assuming this is not a Fi only thing)

So overall the main differentiation for me is the travel part. For people who
don't travel out of the country the Fi doesn't provide anything special.

~~~
1024core
> _1\. If you use the max 10G every month it 's pretty expensive._

How can that be? They cap your bill at $60 (which you hit after using 6GB).
[https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/17/googles-project-fi-now-
cap...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/17/googles-project-fi-now-caps-data-
bills-at-60/)

~~~
tinyhouse
It's 10G for two lines.

------
antichaos
Google Fi's international data service used to be great. Now it's completely
dysfunctional in countries such as Croatia, China, etc, and very spotty in
Austria, Iceland, Philippines, Ecuador, northern Japan etc. I can no longer
rely on Fi when I travel abroad.

------
throw7
I think this is a very good example of PRIVATE vs. GOVERNMENT.

Google has set up a service that is usable/payable by their own rules.

This is something we (U.S.) take as verboten as a private business. They can
discriminate on any reason except as dictated as against
governance(race/age/religion/etc).

If you've been detected by google as "fraudulent" by google, then there is
zero recourse for you. Goodbye to your google account.

If the U.S. government is not going to do anything about this (it has not
shown any interest in this type of problem) then YOU need to be proactive. Be
ready to change services to the private businesses that you interact with
AND/OR speak with your representatives of your government.

------
BuffaloBagel
US citizen here. I was in Mozambique, England, Romania and Denmark with my Fi
phone in 2017. Despite being listed as a country Fi covered, I could never get
service in Mozambique (Beria), despite spending a few hours with several
courteous Google Fi customer support people. My experience in the European
countries was satisfactory. I don't recall any issues and it was nice to have
my US phone number just work in those places.

An earlier trip in 2016 to Tajikistan in central Asia with my Fi phone
required purchasing a local SIM card.

I've since given up on Google Fi and switched my number back to Verizon and
have been happily using a $200 Moto G5 Plus purchased through Amazon.

------
andrewaylett
For all that "legal tender" as a concept is so often misused, this is actually
pretty much the poster-child case where it's necessary: you one someone money
and they're refusing to accept payment. Offer them some legal tender, they're
required to accept _that_ in payment of your debt.

Of course, Google being a tech company that might not motivate them to solve
their tech problems so it might not fix their other account issues. But it
really should fix the phone company side of the problem, allowing the number
to be ported out.

Or maybe I'm overly optimistic.

------
jayalpha
I love my Fi. But I did not activate it in the US and activating abroad was
not trivial. Their "Service" called this "buyers remorse" since I could still
use Wifi. Long story.

------
bubblethink
Isn't a more fundamental reason to not use fi is that it's not a real phone
network ? Nobody other than google can operate a client as intended on the fi
network. The network switching stuff isn't a standard or open source AFAIK.
It's not a part of AOSP. Only google's licensed devices get that logic as a
part of google play services. All other devices will operate in degraded mode
where you are basically using a single carrier just like other carriers. So
why bother ?

------
pcpcpc
Anecdotal evidence, but service was getting worse and worse with google fi (in
San Francisco) over the past few months and I just switched to another carrier
a few weeks ago. Calls were regularly dropping and data would cut in and out.

(I scrolled through the comments and didn't see this anywhere else. I think
it's worth mentioning. I will miss the international coverage and included
hotspot... And as someone who is on WiFi most of the time, it was cheaper than
any of the major carriers.)

------
m0zg
It always seemed like a rip-off to me, given that there existed a $120 per 4
lines T-Mobile plan with _global data_ for free and unlimited domestic data
(well, speed is capped after 4GB per line, but still pretty decent). When
abroad, data speeds aren't going to impress, but it's enough for email and
maps and it works nearly everywhere. I'm not associated with T-Mobile and
don't hold any of their stock. Just a satisfied customer.

------
ogn3rd
I quit a couple years ago when my phone left me in a position where I could
not get any connectivity from the TMobile or Sprint towers, nor wifi. They
tried to use the excuse that it was tower maintenance yet couldn't explain why
wifi connectivity wouldn't work. As someone who is on call 24/7/365 it was
unacceptable and I moved to another provider. Their phone support was
absolutely useless.

------
TheMagicHorsey
If you want a cheap, fairly good mobile plan ... try Mint SIM. You can choose
Verizon, AT&T, or TMobile networks. You prepay for your plans. A 5GB,
unlimited call, unlimited text plan is about $15/month. The cheapest I've
found.

Only downside is my texts don't always download when I'm on Wifi, so sometimes
I have to disconnect to download my texts, and then reconnect to wifi.
Annoying but not a deal breaker.

------
kuroop
This post is not surprising to me. Google product support team lacks empathy
at a very fundamental level. Last year in middle somehow google's system
decided to get me locked out of the old gmail account. I have all the phones
which have ever been connected to it, and all emails I have had ever connected
to it. But no! The only message I have got is, our security team will take 3-5
days to get back to you.

------
hi41
I had a lot of issues with getting Google Fi. On Wi-Fi the calls wouldn’t go
through. If it did the quality of voice was not good. When receiving calls
there was a delay after I accept the call when the caller couldn’t hear me.
When my wife was in Manhattan her phone stopped working completely. she had to
use the phone of her friend to call me. And we moved from iPhone to android
and we hated the experience.

------
godelski
Since switching to Android 9 has anyone else noticed that their data usage
went up? Or rather that their phone disconnects from Wifi frequently?

------
sammycdubs
FWIW re: cell carriers in the US, I've found prepaid has worked really well
for me at a much lower price than even something like Google Fi. I've been
using Mint, and I pay $25 a month for a 10GB plan and it's worked great so
far.

I've heard their support isn't the best, but fortunately I've not had to deal
with them yet.

------
maslam
I've been a Fi customer for two years. Sometimes it 'just works' when you
travel internationally, which is magical. Most times however it just ok. It
was dismal in Pakistan last year. In Netherlands it's barely ok. I'm ditching
it in a few days since the Dutch have better, cheaper carriers.

------
supernova87a
One of the realizations of operationalizing an algorithm / system is that
designers / programmers rarely think of every way in which human beings do
unexpected things with their system. And usually the enthusiasm is never as
great to mop up the customer experience problems after the 99% is solved for.

------
hogu
Is anyone using GCE? This is making me pretty worried. I'm operating a jupyter
notebook service where every user gets their own volume. If my account was
suspended and we no longer have access to user data that would be terrible. We
can try backing data out to AWS but the egress fees would add up

------
TheMagicHorsey
Holy shit! So Google has turned into the Comcast of 2019.

Wow, it took just 19 years to go from the darling of the year 2000 ... DO NO
EVIL ... to the WE DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT RUINING YOUR DIGITAL LIFE BECAUSE WE
HAVE A POLICY AND PROCEDURE.

I guess it really is inevitable. You either die a hero or live long enough to
become the villain.

------
jlmorton
The service is tremendous, the support is terrible. My experience signing up
definitely gave me pause about the service, but I have no complaints since.

When I signed up for Fi on Black Friday, taking advantage of a great deal with
$200 off the Pixel 3, and $200 in Google Fi credits, I mistakenly used a pre-
populated shipping address to my work address in my order. That address was no
longer valid, as my company had recently moved.

When I got a shipping notification, I realized my mistake. I contacted FedEx
to change the shipping address, but Google Fi had placed a restriction on
their shipments that didn't allow recipients to change the shipping address.

So I contacted Google Fi support. After waiting on hold for nearly two hours,
I was told that since the product had already shipped, the issue would need to
be escalated to their Shipping Specialists, who would contact me. Great.

Two days later, the package arrived in my city, and FedEx noted a delivery
exception, since the address was not occupied. I called Google Fi support
again, and after waiting on hold for an hour, was told the issue had already
been escalated.

Several days later, after no progress, I chatted with Google Fi support again.
No update, no ETA, they simply said the Shipping Specialists would get to it
when they can. I contacted them again two days later. Same drill. No update,
no ETA, no information, no ability to do anything except tell me to wait.

About ten days after I first contacted them, and seven days after the package
arrived in my city, FedEx returned the package to the sender. I contacted
Google Fi again, and asked if they could send a replacement, now that the
original was being returned. No dice. I'd have to wait for the Shipping
Specialists.

A few days later, the Shipping Specialists cancelled my order and refunded my
payment, without ever talking to me. They advised me that I could place a new
order. I replied asking if Google Fi would honor their promotional pricing,
since the phone was now $200 more expensive, and the Google Fi credits had
dropped from $200 to $100. They said they might, and they would escalate it to
a manager if I purchased a new phone, and sent them the order details.

So I did. Here was their reply about a week later:

> Hi XXXXX,

> My name is XXXXX and I'm a higher level Specialist here with Google Fi. I'm
> working directly with our Promotions Team to determine your eligibility for
> our "Pixel 3 / 3 XL $400 Back" promotion that was ongoing from November 22nd
> @ 11:00 PM PT - November 27th @ 11:59 PM PT.

> After thoroughly reviewing your account, we have determined you are
> ineligible for an exception to this promotion.

> Per the promotion terms: "Limited time offer available from 11/22/18 11:00
> PM PT through 11/27/18 11:59 PM PT, or while supplies last"

> Since your original order GS.XXXXXXXX was returned to shipper due to an
> incorrect shipping address, we are unable to provide an exception.

Pretty amazing. I called Google Fi support five times over a 10 day period to
try and get the shipping address changed. The original mistake was mine, but
no one at Google Fi support was able to do anything about the problem until
the phone was returned, and then they made no effort to rectify the situation.

With that said, I'm quite happy with the phone and service - just not the
support.

------
sbr464
I’ve tried it and overall found the service spotty in Denver, and typically a
notch lower (technical term) on whatever speed compared to Verizon etc, when
traveling internationally. I will admit that initial tech support experiences
were unsustainably amazing.

------
b212
I'm always amazed how expensive mobile plans in the US are.

Google Fi Unlimited + 6 GB of is $80 a month. In Poland you get the same for
around $6.5, prepaid.

On the other hand AT&T Prepaid $40 Monthly Plan has everything unlimited and 8
GB of data, so why would anyone use Google Fi?

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rkagerer
I've had edge case service nightmares with Google as well. Hate to say it but
for a company that prides themselves on being smart, sometimes (just like in
any other bureaucracy) they come across as really stupid.

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saagarjha
Just switched to Google Fi, and while I haven't had any issues to the extent
to which the author did, the I do agree that the support experience is not
great. It's in line with most Google products.

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ryanmercer
I've been with them for 3 years and change, the entire time it's very much
been an iffy beta-feeling product. _shrugs_ the price is worth the
inconveniences I've experienced.

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killjoywashere
Ah, I live on a small island in the Pacific and just got back from Thailand.
Having Google Fi has been an absolute game changer.

Would having a back-up payment method set have solved something like this?

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camdenlock
Things like this are why I've recently bailed on my Google account (including
my decades-old gmail account). There ARE alternatives out there. I've been
enjoying ProtonMail.

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skolos
Throughout years Google showed that if you make any of their products
essential for you, there is big chance you are going to be screwed. In the end
all they care is web search.

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duxup
I'd leave Fi, but who am I going to use after that? Verizon, ATT? Granted Fi
uses ATT (and roams on Verizon once in a while) but I'd rather not pay them
directly....

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eisa01
The EU should introduce some Digital Consumer Rights to put a stop to these
arbitrary black holes you can get into with internet giants.

Would surely be a positive measure?

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gus_massa
Just to be sure, the gmail account was also locked?

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wittedhaddock
FWIW I started a Google Fi competitor focused on providing competent service
quickly: CommunityPhone.org

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8ytecoder
Well, it will be fixed with the next rewrite of Google
Payments/Wallet/Pay/Whatever.

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mattfaus
Would adding multiple payment methods to your google payments account mitigate
the risk here?

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TomMckenny
Is there some disadvantage to using a dedicated Google account solely for
Google Fi?

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x0x0
tl;dr:

* all payments through google use google pay

* poster's husband bought a pixel 3 at the same time there was fraud on their card.

* the pixel 3 shipped even though the payment was reversed because of the fraud

* google shut down his google pay account hard, and that broke google fi, hangouts, access to his phone number, etc.

* google support has been super googley about this (ie foad)

* if you ever have fraud problems with google pay, prepare for all google stuff to break with 0 resolution or help

* as a side note, poster bought a pixel 3 and they have improved their support from the pixel 2 to be more googley. The phone remains basically broken.

~~~
tramGG
This is why consolidation of power is bad. You can't out run their influence
and consideration. Competition is great in both tech and state because you
have options (barring collusion).

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chisleu
It routinely cost me so much in data that it was cheaper to get a Verizon
unlimited data plan. That was the end of it for me.

~~~
bduerst
What is Verizon billing you? Verizon's "unlimited" plan is capped 22 GB and
slows you down after. You get true unlimited data with Fi at $60 + $20 per
line.

~~~
chisleu
When did they start that? I was paying $10/GB plus $20/mo. Also Google Fi
slows data after 15GB...
[https://fi.google.com/about/plan/](https://fi.google.com/about/plan/)

My Verizon plan is under $70 w/ the taxes/fees.

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ben509
Just my luck, I start seeing all the horror stories after I've _just_ signed
up for this. Pucker intensifies...

~~~
titanomachy
99% chance you'll be totally fine, so probably not worth losing sleep over it.

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your-nanny
on plus side, Google asked the cell companies not to cell Fi customers
location data...

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pdx_flyer
A credit card pushing post veiled as a Google Fi review. Awesome.

My wife still loves Fi, and I love having a Fi data sim.

~~~
metalliqaz
You're not wrong, but you don't have to point it out like it's a revelation.
The disclosure is prominently displayed at the head of the article.

~~~
pdx_flyer
Every post is marked with that disclosure. I just find the content hard to
read when it is so blatantly there to try and get you to sign up for one of
the cards that happens to be mentioned.

The whole post could have been 150 words.

~~~
Dylan16807
The whole post had quite a lot of useful setup for how support has changed and
the current state of it. Don't be so taken aback by a _single sentence_ of
advertising that it taints your view of the rest.

