
OS X 10.7 “Lion”: The King Of The Apple Jungle, The Last Of Its Kind, Or Both? - ssclafani
http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/13/os-x-lion-10-7/
======
zdw
I hope this is a sign that Apple is going to focus more on their desktop
experience, if only because there aren't any new/hot/rumored devices to
release.

Apple also has it's own tick/tock of releases, between developer features and
end user features - 10.4 and 10.6 being the former, and 10.5 being the latter.
Thus, we're probably going to see a lot of new whiz-bang end user features in
10.7.

"Unification" already exists - iOS and MacOS X core OS and kernel code is
fairly similar, as is much of the userland API. It's different for obvious
reasons (many to do with touch/hardware limitations), and unless those
differences go away (which I don't see happening - touch on an iMac form
factor = serious arm pain), I don't see much point to the talk of unification.

~~~
sachinag
There is a rumor of a substantially redesigned MacBook Air.

~~~
easp
Which is probably as much driven by the fact that the air hasn't been updated
in quite a while as it is by any facts. But who knows, it will be true at some
point.

~~~
jonursenbach
Aside from the novelty value, I never really did see a point to the Air.

~~~
derefr
The Air was half-way to the final simplicity of the iPad—if they had knocked
off the bottom half of it, that would have been what everyone had actually
pictured the iPad as before it was released. I don't think it really has any
place in the modern product line, lying in an uneasy position somewhere very
near "iPad with the keyboard dock attached."

~~~
loewenskind
I don't agree. I think the advantage of iOS devices is that they're instant on
"appliances". Air is more of a computer with no moving parts, i.e. a full
computer but many of the benefits of instant on. I think that will have a
place until SSD gets to the point that it's a viable option on the pro line.

------
thought_alarm
I'm hoping the next version of OS X will finally bring us true resolution
independence, to correspond with some high DPI "Retina" MacBook displays.

I also expect they'll provide new ways for developers and/or users to leverage
both iOS and OS X; perhaps that's where cloud computing will come into play.

Other than that, I don't think we're going to see any more huge innovations in
desktop computing, from Apple or anyone else. All the action is in mobile (and
development tools).

~~~
j_baker
I can't help but think of "640k should be enough for everybody" when I read
this. Desktop computing isn't as sexy as mobile computing, but it isn't dead
yet. There are plenty of innovations left to be made.

~~~
jseliger
This is fair, but I also think about an essay I read (from Kevin Kelly? It
might be in his new books, _What Technology Wants_), in which he points out
that, basically, we've hit a plateau of about 60 MPH landspeed for most
journeys. If you chart a graph of "how fast people get around on land" from
1715 to about 1950, you see a steady rise. After that, you just see... us
being steady.

Ditto for air flight: from the dawn of aviation to about 1960 or 1970, you see
steadily increasing speeds. Today, most planes still fly at about ~500 MPH (I
think), just like they used to.

Although there are still lots of micro-innovations going on with cars, rail,
and planes, they've basically hit a maximum airspeed.

I suspect something similar might be going on with the current paradigm of
desktop operating systems. Since around ~2005 (when Windows XP's service packs
finally caught up to virus / worm writers and OS X Tiger brought stability and
full text search), nothing in operating systems has made a tangible difference
in my life.

Compared to the jump from DOS to Windows 95, or from 95/98 to XP, or the late
versions of Mac OS to the early versions of OS X... the current changes in
operating systems just aren't that great. Which isn't to say "consumer OSes
are dead"—but they've probably hit a spot where the major problems have been
solved. The innovations are smaller than universal protected memory, fast,
full-indexed search, and the like.

The key words above are "for this paradigm." Mobile represents the next
obvious computing paradigm, and that might be a good thing. For better or
worse, Microsoft has "won" the desktop and will probably never lose it. The
company appears to mostly be competing with itself these days (I say, writing
from an iMac).

~~~
easp
Yeah, mobile is great and all (I say that as I type this on my iPad) but there
is still much that can be done with larger form factors and more powerful
devices. But then I'm the guy who still doesn't understand why no one even
tried to come up with ways to use two mice. Imagine using one hand to grab and
hold, and the other to manipulate. It's not like we haven't had USB for over a
decade, and both Microsoft and Apple make and sell mice. You'd think that
doubling e market would be attractive.

~~~
JonnieCache
Two mice means two cursors, this would require window managers and the UI
libraries on on of them to be largely rewritten. As they have been, for the
mobile space.

Multitouch in desktop OSes has been tacked on as a layer over the traditional
cursor-oriented APIs, which is why it feels that way when you use it.

~~~
derefr
> Two mice means two cursors

Not necessarily. It could also mean one cursor that operates in four spacial
dimensions.

------
jsz0
Apple didn't put a mouse driven UI on a tablet. Why would they put a touch
driven UI on a computer? Jobs has said he views PCs are trucks. Based on that
statement I think 10.7 is more likely going to be about keeping the truck
drivers happy.

~~~
easp
Apple didn't put arrow keys on the first Mac either. A couple of years later,
they did. You know why they waited? Because they wanted to make sure apps that
were written to take advantage of the new UI, rather than ported from purely
keyboard driven UIs. Why would they put a mouse UI on their first tablet,
particularly when Microsoft has demonstrated what a mediocre result that gets
you.

I see no reason why, having established touch UI patterns on iOS devices,
Apple would have any reason not to start introducing such things on the
desktop.

And really, have you been in a pickup lately? They have a lot of car like
amenities, like antilock breaks, air conditioners, decent stereos, etc.

~~~
enneff
Right, because it's _really_ ergonomic for me to reach out and touch my
display.

~~~
carbon8
Desktop touch functionality wouldn't necessarily be added to the primary
display. Apple has filed patents for using touch screens for keyboards and
trackpads. Even if it was for the primary display, apple has a patent for a
movable display that is oriented horizontally when used as a touch screen.

It's not clear how or whether would add desktop touch features, but they've
clearly considered it.

------
newsfu
The user interface elements in MacOS are supplied by AppKit, in iOS it's
UIKit. What I expect to see is a marriage of the two with AppKit perhaps
reimplemented with UIKit classes.

Fracturing UIKit isn't unprecedented, it's already done on iOS with the iPad
having widgets and features not available on iPhone.

UIKit is cleaner having been redesigned after so many years and with so many
other technologies baked (CGLayer & CoreAnimation for example).

AppKit would continue to exist for some time with developers having the option
of mixing the two (as not all features will be available at the UIKit layer to
start.)

A good example of where UIKit bests AppKit is the seemingly simple "Put an
animated progress meter in a table row". This is easy in UIKit because table
cells are UIViews. However, in AppKit, a table cell is a NSCell which is -not-
a view.

On MacOS nearly everything has a NSView and a NSCell component (i.e. NSButton,
NSButtonCell) On iOS there are no cells. (UIButton, no UIButtonCell.)

Other AppKit classes will be implemented using their UIKit counterparts
(NSView to UIView, NSWindow to UIWindow).

The result will be a much cleaner development environment for applications
that favors animation, multi-touch, and code reuse with the iOS platform.

------
qq66
Apple: "We ran out of cat names, let's use Lion." Press: "Apple is changing
their OS architecture!"

~~~
aaronblohowiak
You don't think Lions are cats?

~~~
qq66
I meant, "ran out of cat names except Lion, which we were avoiding for
precisely this reason" :)

------
allwein
TRIM.

Even if that's the only new feature in 10.7, I'll be ponying my money up for
it. I completely love the SSD in my MBP, but the occasional stuttering does
get annoying at times.

------
gamble
Predictions:

* 10.7 "Lion" (obviously)

* iLife 2011 (with FaceTime in iChat), iWork 2011

* New Mac replacing MacBook Air with a swivelling touch screen

* iOS app support on OSX, utilizing said touch screen

~~~
jeremymcanally
This is purely made-up dreaming, but I hope your last point comes in the form
of a Dashboard-like thing that lets you easily launch iOS apps. Pop it up and
launch when needed, hide it when you don't.

~~~
X-Istence
Personally I never use Dashboard, it was cool to play with for a couple of
hours and after that the novelty wore off. It really hasn't seen any
innovation at all, and overall feels out of place.

If they put iOS support in Mac OS X that would be awesome, but I hope they do
it in a way that they are just like other apps on my desktop that can be put
in the dock. That way I am much more likely to use the apps.

~~~
cubicle67
I use it (dashboard) almost daily. most used app is a great javascript based
calculator (can eval almost any js), and iStat for viewing processes

FrontRow, on the other hand, I use rarely. When I do, I'm glad it's there
though

~~~
gamble
I use it regularly as well, (calculator, calendar, weather, stocks, and iStat)
but I agree with the previous poster than developer interest in dashboard
widgets is pretty minimal these days. It would be great if I could run
arbitrary iPhone apps in the dashboard alongside my widgets.

I think it makes sense for Apple as well, since the value proposition for iOS
to developers is shaping into an argument that, yes, there are a lot of
Android phones out there, but there are a huge number of iPod Touches, iPads -
and perhaps now Macs - in the hands of customers that can run the same iOS
apps.

~~~
easp
Apple has something going for iOS relative to android, even without running
iaoS apps on macs: people actually install apps on iOS devices, not only that,
they'll pay for them.

------
DeusExMachina
A job posting from Apple a couple of months ago metioned a "revolutionary
feature" that will "truly amaze everyone":
[http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_seeks_en...](http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/07/29/apple_seeks_engineer_for_revolutionary_new_mac_os_x_feature.html)

I really wonder what this feature could be.

------
bch
How did this even end up on HN? It says nothing. Save your two minutes.

~~~
lovskogen
Like most articles, I only read the HN comments, that's where the good stuff
is – not in the articles themselves. For this kind of articles, anyway.

------
zppx
I was expecting the new release to be named Maine Coon or Cougar, jokes apart
I hope some new improvements in Finder, file searching, some cool features for
new hardware and a complete system compiled by clang. Maybe a bunch of small
new software, I particulary would love a serious package manager, a interface
to deal with launchctl and a working useradd that works with DirectoryService.

------
dfj225
> The computing world is shifting into the age of mobile, and iOS is now seen
> as Apple’s major operating system. Perhaps OS X Lion will represent the
> beginning of a unification between OS X and iOS. And if Apple is giving it
> the Lion moniker, which they won’t be able to top, perhaps they mean this to
> be last version of OS X? (Though they do say “next” version of Mac OS X and
> not “last”.)

It seems that it would be fundamentally stupid for Apple to try and merge OS X
and iOS. They are operating systems that target different types of devices
with wildly methods of user interaction.

Do people really see the iPhone and Mac being equivalent devices so soon? Or
is this TechCrunch article just full of shit?

------
robchez
Just because they are obviously calling it "Lion" doesn't mean it wont be just
another iterative update (Although it might not). Look at iTunes 10. They had
the chance to do something huge with revision number 10 (like make it work on
Windows!) but it was just another version of iTunes with a horrible icon and
Ping!

------
ThomPete
I am hoping that "Lion" will have a serious look at workflow integration.

As apple have now made a consumer product (iPad) I hope that they will return
with an OS more catered to professional need.

Things such as creating workflow history is really something that have taken
way to long to get around to.

------
brisance
My wild-ass guess is that Apple is going to let the apps from iOS run in a
sandbox environment on OS X 10.7, which really shouldn't be that hard to do
since development code runs on emulated iOS devices. This would broaden the
reach of the iOS ecosystem.

~~~
thought_alarm
> which really shouldn't be that hard to do since development code runs on
> emulated iOS devices.

That's incorrect. Apps that run in the iOS Simulator are compiled to i386 code
and run as a native OS X processes. They are essentially OS X apps that link
to UIKit instead of AppKit.

Edit: That's not to say Apple couldn't support such a scenario. Many App Store
apps are already fat binaries that include ARMv6 and ARMv7 code. No reason why
they couldn't include i386 code as well to facilitate running on Mac hardware.

~~~
brisance
Yes, and the "not that hard" remark was in reference to their deep experience
moving from 68K to PPC to x86. So, having fat binaries is not a foreign
concept to them at all.

Apple has filed a patent on OS-level advertising.
[http://ipwatchdog.com/2009/10/22/jobs-and-apple-seek-
patent-...](http://ipwatchdog.com/2009/10/22/jobs-and-apple-seek-patent-on-
operating-system-advertising/id=6761/)

Integrating iOS apps (where users are already conditioned to being exposed to
advertising) with some version of OS X would not be a big leap from a
technical or business strategy perspective.

------
jsz0
What about OSX 10.7 for ARM? There are some impressive high end ARM SoCs in
the pipeline. We know Apple isn't afraid of big architecture transitions.
They've got a lot invested in ARM via PA Semi & Intrinsity. Sounds very
plausible to me.

~~~
protomyth
If there was a 64-bit version of ARM. I would believe it, but I am guessing
not.

------
parka
I wish they would include voice recognition for keyboard shortcuts or
commands.

There are so many occasions I wish it's there.

------
plemer
Techcrunch makes me wish I could bury stories.

------
cake
What's the feature you expect the most in Lion ?

------
dasil003
The event isn't for another week. Are we going to be subjected to a steady
stream of contentless speculation from the Apple pundit set for the next 7
days? I'm actually really excited for the announcement, but I couldn't care
less what MG Siegler's opinion of it is.

~~~
gabrielroth
The speculation should be pretty easy to avoid, if that's what you want to do.

~~~
dasil003
Right, I'll be ok. This was just my attempt at discouraging people from
upvoting the next 20 such articles without resorting to the this-isnt-hacker-
news-please-sandblast-me meme.

------
pilif
I really hope OSX won't be the first release of OS X that only starts
applications signed by Apple and bought in the Apple Desktop App Store (or
whatever it's going to be called).

------
angstrom
Or just a sudden switch to Thundercats character names to throw everyone off.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ThunderCats_characters>

