
Phosphine gas in the cloud decks of Venus - perihelions
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-020-1174-4
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molmalo
Previous discussion:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24463423](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24463423)

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codethief
> Previous discussions

FTFY :)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24467635](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24467635)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24471024](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24471024)

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vitorbaptistaa
If you haven't yet, I highly recommend watching to the Royal Astronomical
Society Press Briefing [1], where the main researchers present the results of
their research. It's just 30 minutes and pretty well explained (although I'm
not an astrophysicist).

One of the researchers, Dr. Clara Sousa-Silva, also have a 2-min video on how
they know about the elements in other planets' atmosphere [2], and a great
explanation about what is phosphine [3]. Her personal website is one of the
best I've ever seen.

2020 doesn't cease to surprise me.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1u-jlf_Olo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1u-jlf_Olo)

[2]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt7UBhYdM_o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt7UBhYdM_o)

[3]
[https://clarasousasilva.com/phosphine](https://clarasousasilva.com/phosphine)

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codethief
> Her personal website is one of the best I've ever seen.

Wow, it's really good indeed!

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pvaldes
Yep, clean and well structured

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baybal2
It would be interesting to see if they also found H3PO3.

If so, then the inorganic synthesis pathway turns obvious, but the question
where from H3PO3 comes on Venus arises.

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joedevon
It would be even more interesting if they found C3PO IMO.

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jkingsbery
Yes, but the odds of that are approximately 3,720 to 1.

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pks016
Suppose we find primitive life forms after sending probe. What's the next step
gonna be? Should we manipulate things or let the life form as it is?

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whatshisface
We don't have the ability to manipulate that kind of ecosystem.

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elihu
We do if there exist microorganisms on Earth that can survive and multiply in
the atmosphere of Venus. (The upper layers aren't nearly as harsh an
environment as at ground-level, though I don't know if it's survivable by
anything Earth-native.)

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chrisco255
How? If there's no water, how could there be an ecosystem of microorganisms
thriving in the atmosphere?

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elihu
It has water (according to wikipedia), just not very much in comparison to the
Earth.

In theory, some hypothetical life form could convert sulfuric acid to water,
but I have no idea if such a thing is possible or currently exists on Earth.

> Water vapor 20 ppm

(from
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Venus))

> The concentration of water vapor (a greenhouse gas) varies significantly
> from around 10 ppm by volume in the coldest portions of the atmosphere to as
> much as 5% by volume in hot, humid air masses, and concentrations of other
> atmospheric gases are typically quoted in terms of dry air (without water
> vapor).

(from
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth))

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fredley
Phosphine on earth is only created as a product of biological chemistry. This
might be the case on Venus too, which would be a first sign of extra-
terrestrial life.

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juancn
It's interesting, but the conditions on Venus are of such high pressure (93
bar) and temperature is so high, that using the fact that phosphine does not
appear naturally on earth (by that I mean by non biological means) doesn't
mean there is a biological process. Venus is quite a different beast as
environments go.

There could be a relatively simple process at high pressure/temperature that
produces it in abundance (it's not a complex molecule).

My point is that until we have evidence of an actual organism, we cannot jump
and say "life created this".

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epicureanideal
I think they've already thought through the high pressure/temperature
situation. These are professionals and the videos seem to show that they've
taken many variables into account.

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chrisco255
From one of the scientist's personal site: "I found that, if detected on a
rocky planet, phosphine can only mean life."

For one, this assertion seems too certain to be scientific. That they
attempted to create phosphine using a non-biological method and were unable to
do so does not appear to be proof of anything except perhaps it does indicate
likelihood. However, we shouldn't be fooled into believing that nature's
creativity does not often exceed our own, even our brightest minds.

Jupiter and Saturn are able to produce this molecule and while they don't fit
the assertion's limitation of "rocky planet"...Venus certainly has many unique
characteristics that may produce this molecule. Professionals get things
wrong, too. As Feynman said, "you must not fool yourself and you are the
easiest one to fool."

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andrewflnr
The point about Jupiter and Saturn is specifically addressed in the press
conference. The processes that produce phosphine on gas giants rely on a very
high partial pressure of hydrogen, whereas Venus has a critical shortage of
hydrogen.

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hutzlibu
Randall made a good comic again, covering this topic:

[https://xkcd.com/2359/](https://xkcd.com/2359/)

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salutonmundo
also an amusing one from SMBC [https://www.smbc-
comics.com/comic/phosphine](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/phosphine)

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commonturtle
We might be weeks / months away from finding aliens, even if they are only
microbes :) Exciting times.

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valuearb
So much for terraforming Earths “Twin”.

