
Ask HN: How Can I Be More Hardworking? - muzani
I work from home. I make enough money to work about 10 hours a week so I often work 10 hours a week. The rest of the time, I don&#x27;t really do anything. &quot;Nothing&quot; can range from hours on Stack Overflow, spending 4 hours filling a form, vacuuming the office, or having an hour long morning tea.<p>I have a very productive workspace; own room, fast equipment, good workflow. I eat healthy, sleep early, wake early, get enough exercise.<p>I&#x27;ve tried all the major productivity tips - meditation, Pomodoro, gamification, watching motivational videos, RescueTime, nootropics, plain grit, keto. They help for about a week, but then I build immunity to them.<p>I can easily cold turkey something like Facebook but this just ends up replaced by something else like breadmaking or reading books.<p>I tried working full time. I can work 14 hours&#x2F;day full time just fine. But when I&#x27;m done with it, I still go back to working minimum hours.<p>I like my job and I have above average motivation and discipline. I have no willpower issues otherwise.<p>What else is a good way to increase my work rate?
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MaxBarraclough
You've had a _really_ poor response from the HN community here. Barely a
single comment even attempts to speak to your question! HN is normally pretty
good at resisting Sturgeon's Law, but not today.

muzani isn't asking to be talked out of working more hours, everyone.

Anyway, my suggestion: it sounds like you work alone. Maybe try working with
other people, for a day or two per week. (I don't know if that's compatible
with your line of work, or if you'd consider taking on a different one.) The
camaraderie may help you make a habit of it.

Also, a formal commitment to turn up each week is likely to work much better
for you than a take-it-or-leave-it arrangement.

~~~
muzani
Yeah, that sounds like something I haven't tried. I actually work really well
remotely; my most productive time was idling in chat rooms. But unfortunately,
forums like this and reddit are too distracting. I'm not so fond of coworking
spaces as they come with productivity hits of their own.

Oddly enough, it is quite reassuring that there are not a lot of helpful
responses, because it means it's a problem that nobody has a solution for.

~~~
MaxBarraclough
I think arandr0x has captured the reason for the poor replies -- people aren't
clear on what it is you're really after.

If you're committed to work that's fundamentally just _you_ working alone,
there's probably not as much value in my suggestion as I'd hoped.

Even so, perhaps finding some way of turning your planned extra-work-day-per-
week into a formal commitment, would help.

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matty22
Why do you WANT to work more?

You are in the enviable position of being able to work for just 10 hours per
week to support your quality of life. Perhaps you could pick a new hobby and
dedicate your free time to becoming a master woodworker? Perhaps you could
find a cause you care about and volunteer your free time to helping in some
capacity? Perhaps you want to learn to paint or travel or meet new people or,
hell, just sit in the park and feed the ducks.

Or if you really do want to do more income generating work, what do you want
to work ON? Just saying "I should work more" isn't going to cut it.

> It is not enough to be busy. So are the ants. The question is: What are we
> busy about? - Henry David Thoreau

~~~
kanox
Why is the top answer to "how can I work more" always "work less"?

If you don't agree with that the poster is trying to do just don't answer
instead of undermining their motivation.

~~~
geezerjay
Perhaps because a desire to spend more time working is, in the grand scheme of
things, a colossal mistake.

You get top answers advising the OP to work less because some of us lived
through the same problem and in the end realized what a colossal mistake it is
to waste your life living to work instead of working to live.

How many people have laid in their deathbed complaining how they didn't spent
more time at the office pushing some paperwork? Hoe many complained they
didn't spent enough time with their loved ones?

Yes, the top answer is always "work less" because that's alwayd the right
answer.

~~~
maceurt
I disagree with this. Some people do not want to have families, and some
people are really competitive and ambitious. Not everyone's goal is to spend
their time with others or leisure.

Furthermore, I know for myself I feel like shit after a lot of social activity
or leisure, and feel actually really great after working for a long amount of
time. The only hard part is starting.

~~~
muzani
This hits the nail on the head. I feel like shit after too much social
activity, and feel great after working very hard. I thought it was a given
that everyone feels better after it and didn't see the need to mention reason
in OP.

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MiddleEndian
In my experience, you have to build habits. Motivation and willpower can
fluctuate, but forcing yourself to do something for awhile until it becomes
the norm tends to work for me (assuming it's something I value).

Now I have a question for you. How did you end up in a situation where people
will pay you for ten hours of work a week instead of forty?

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tjkrusinski
Surrender to yourself. Acknowledge your limits and accept them. Know that you
are enough and you are not the hours that you work or the effort you put into
things. You are not your works. Through surrender and acceptance you'll allow
yourself to stop focusing on how you aren't doing enough and instead reframe
into a perspective of gratitude for what you are doing and can do.

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rchaud
It sounds like you're trying to deal with boredom rather than a need to work
harder. Working from home only ~10 hrs/week, I could certainly see myself
going a little stir-crazy.

Have you considered changing your routine a bit? Maybe try working from a
coffee shop, or rent a co-working office for a couple of months.

~~~
muzani
I've tried working from other places. It's actually a little less effective.
It's tempting to procrastinate other ways - walking a little further for
lunch, taking long walks around the nice co-working building, or just making
small talk with people.

Coffee places tend to cut the internet after an hour, which straight up kills
flow. I have issues starting, not continuing work, and this limited time
brings enough dread to not start at all.

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arandr0x
This was my life in college and I eventually realized I just had an above
average prioritization mechanism. If it doesn't really matter, and I don't
feel like doing it, it's not getting done.

It's actually pretty productive at baseline since I can do the things that do
matter lightning fast, so if you're like that, just try to do more things/more
varied things (for example start a class not related to your job or get a
second job not in the same field). (Also different/more intense physical
activity. I don't know if you're like that but I'm a standard issue adrenaline
junkie in addition to having selective motivation.)

~~~
muzani
This is true. I think I get paid way more per hour than average, and a good
reason is doing things quickly and effectively.

However, the bottleneck is just doing more work. I do secondary less paid jobs
like teaching and mentoring for events, where I can work 10 hours per day just
fine, because it's mostly physical/social. But it doesn't help things and
makes me too tired to be productive coding, which is where the real money is.

~~~
arandr0x
So it _is_ for more money.

At 10h/week I'm assuming you're a consultant. Have you tried accepting more
jobs than you feel you can do (not a lot, a little more) and then giving the
client a deadline? It's not usually recommended because it's stressful but
you're essentially having issues not having a boss and as a freelancer the
clients are your boss.

It seems like your efforts to work more are very self-directed (working on
ideas you had vs things customers are asking for) -- in my experience some
clients will definitely bring you metric tons of coffee and breathe down your
neck for hours if you'd let them, so doing client work may be easier (and
well, more lucrative). Smaller clients are more agile(/annoying). Clients who
are local are more likely to engage in high-pressure behavior to remind you
they're important, like, pick up the phone.

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faceareugly
Have the same problem here.

The only thing that motivates me is the EXTREMELY interesting work.

So I'm starting thinking that I don't need the tools to improve my ability to
work harder, instead I need the work I want to work harder.

If not - then I should not worry about this.

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mooreds
Why do you want to increase your work rate? I find having an external goal can
help drive productivity, at least a bit.

~~~
soared
Similarly, what do you want to work on? (Motivation for working on your job
can be very different than motivation for a side project)

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julius_set
It really takes obsession, you have to be obsessed with what you do to output
> 40-50 hour work weeks. <—- this is excluding extremely high pay which can be
another motivator albeit a short term motivator

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mips_avatar
3 months ago I started waking up at the same time every day, and immediately
having a breakfast with good amount of healthy fat. It’s been a game changer
for my consistency. Some days are more productive than others, but in general
I hardly ever have the useless days I used to have where i couldn’t seem to
get anything done. I initially had a hard time waking up on time, but I got
the philips Hue smart bulbs and the sunrise routine on them has really helped
me wake up. It’s much more pleasant than an alarm.

~~~
rosege
what are you eating for the healthy fat?

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mips_avatar
There are a few good approaches, but an easy one is adding chia seeds. A
tablespoon of chia seeds has 9 grams of fat (omega 3 mostly but not DHA), 4
grams of protein and 11 grams of dietary fiber. I usually soak them for about
5 minutes while i prepare a protein shake or coffee, and then add them into
said protein shake or Greek yoghurt. Most people don’t get enough dietary
fiber, so this is especially helpful to your productivity if it means less
miserable constipated toilet time, like it did for me.

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greenyouse
I think the most important thing is wanting to do something. The problem in
front of you shouldn't just be work - you should actually be interested in
solving it.

That would probably range from something that's so easy you just want to drop
the hammer and knock it out to a massive problem that you'll spend months or
years chipping away at. Either way if you really are interested in working on
it you'll think about it in the background and approach solutions from
multiple angles. When you're excited about working on the problem you'll have
no issues with working more than 10 hours per week if that's what it takes.

Everybody is different but I've found that when a problem is actually fun to
work on "productivity" techniques don't really do much. It's mostly making a
plan for what to do, working a bit, learning more, and either solving or
starting the work cycle over again with new information.

So I think you probably need to work on more problems that you're actually
interested in.

~~~
muzani
This worked well a year into my first job. After several death marches, I've
developed an aversion to work. The problems are still interesting and it's
hard to stop when I start, but starting has become increasingly more
difficult.

You're probably right in that productivity techniques don't work. They treat
the symptom but not the root.

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arcaster
IMO, any response to this question is tightly associated with specific
contexts of your current workspace and only gets more complicated when
considering what kind of company you work at / where your current goals for
the next 2-5 years stand.

You want to maintain progress and improve your output, but not at the cost of
compensation or burnout. This is very hard to answer without those contexts.

From your post I think you're going about this the wrong way. External acts
like meditating or "optimizing time" are easy ways to burn yourself out doing
stupid things and end up flat out not enjoying your life. I tried this during
a gap year I took to work at a startup in college while I was considering
dropping out and one other time after I'd graduated.

Genuinely wasn't worth it.

My best simple advice is to just focus on work while you're at work or set
4hrs aside each day to really focus. Otherwise, live your life. In time if you
follow these simple rules I think you'll find surprising gains.

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d-sc
Find a purpose that drives you. Volunteer your time, start a business, have
kids, get another degree, build a house start to finish. From the purpurse,
the desire to get thinks done and associated time management will follow. Jobs
can serve the function of having a purpose, but can also not be sufficient. Do
something hard, not easy.

~~~
d-sc
Heck: for what it’s worth. If you or anyone else on HN is interested: I’m in
college right now working part time, so I’m low on spare time, but I come up
with seemingly profitable business ideas pretty regularly. If you want
something to work on, drop me a line and we could discuss starting a side gig.
I contribute leadership / project management, you contribute operations/
getting stuff done, split 50/50.

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maceurt
Getting into a flow state is most important, at least for me. Starting is the
hardest part, but if you force yourself to start then it becomes much better.
That being said, some people don't ever seem to hit that flow state or have
trouble hitting it for certain things. In that case, I would advise doing
something like a Pompadour clock type of thing, 30 minute sessions (or
whatever time limit you want) of continuous work, then break, then another
timed session.

Like others have said, a lot of it is just developing the habit of doing it.
Habits are defined by cues, so you want to be in an environment that is
associated with work, so you should avoid trying to work at home or any place
you have associated with leisure.

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alphagrep12345
One thing that I've realized over years is that discipline beats motivation.
Motivation to work on something hardly lasts a couple of weeks, but if you are
disciplined enough to wake up every morning and work on it, you'll work on it
longer.

Now coming to the main question - You need to have something to work for. I
did the mistake of wanting to work more without having a solid goal. Unless
you have a pressing deadline or a challenging goal, human mind always tends to
slack off. Think by asking yourself this question - "What is the problem you
want to solve?" and then work backward and allocate time to things.

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andrei_says_
I’d say you _think_ you should want to work more but what you actually want is
do the things that you do instead.

So I’d explore these thought patterns “I should work more” — maybe use Byron
Katie’s “the work” process?

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new_guy
That's called living your life. I think you need to work on your mental
blocks. i.e the fact that you feel the 'need' to work as opposed to 'wasting'
time by living your life.

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beaconstudios
you haven't mentioned your goals here anywhere - do you have any that you're
pursuing? Working harder should be a means to an end (pursuing a passion,
advancing a career, etc) and it's much harder to work hard on something
without having a reason to do so. Also, arguably pointless.

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xxxanony
You might find it helpful to make to-do lists and only work on one thing at a
time. By limiting your work in progress and context switching you might find
that you don't need to work as many hours in order to get the same results.

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billman
Can I ask why you think you should be more hard working? Social norms?

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sinnet11
TBH bullet journaling has been great for me. Making monthly, daily, and future
logs has dramatically increased my productivity/anxiety.

I used to keep all these thoughts cluttered in my head and then they became
blockers because if I did one I'd be thinking about the other.

While I use it to organize my thoughts and put plan to action, some may use it
just an outlet for whatever.

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gentran
Not to get off topic, but what do you do out of curiosity?

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headsclouds
Change nothing. You are living the good life.

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mac01021
Get a mortgage.

~~~
smidgeoncoup
And 5 kids, in metro California

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ackfoo
You need to not work more. The bug numbers out of Luquillo are terrifying: 98%
gone in the forest floor, 80% gone in the canopy. These are supported by
numbers elsewhere.

Productivity is a self-destructive idea. Forget climate change; if the bug
numbers are correct, we're going to lose the pollinators within a few years,
and all your money won't another minute buy.

We all need to do the absolute minimum necessary to survive and stop
reproducing until our numbers and lifestyle return to a sustainable level.
This is now a dire and desperate matter of survival of our species.

~~~
ramblerman
I have to ask, why does HN seem to have a high number of these weird
conspiracy-esque ramblings.

It almost seems as if they are generated by a neural net, and not a person.

~~~
beaconstudios
California.

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RantyDave
Go see a doctor and discuss ADD.

