
My Venezuela Nightmare: A 30-Day Hunt for Food in a Starving Land - adventured
http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-venezuela-diary/
======
seibelj
I highly recommend reading Life and Death in Shanghai by Nien Cheng [0]. It's
a factual, first-hand account of the China's Cultural Revolution and what
living in a communist / socialist society is really like from an educated
person's perspective. My inlaws escaped Saigon when it fell and say the
picture is very accurate.

The socialist downfall of countries are all unique, but follow similar paths.
I encourage people to understand the causes of them and how brutal and
arbitrary these governments are.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Death_in_Shanghai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_and_Death_in_Shanghai)

~~~
tptacek
I think we need to be more careful with our terminology than using the terms
"communist" and "socialist" interchangeably. Presumably, the real problem
we're talking about is state-controlled economies, regardless of the
ideologies that set them up.

~~~
beloch
Several countries that are fairly socialist have higher living standards than
the U.S., where "socialism" is an epithet for some reason. McCarthy lives on I
suppose.

Venezuela's problem is _totalitarianism_. In a socialist country, it is
possible for the government to be governed by law and have limits placed on
its power. That is not what's been going in in Venezuala.

~~~
adventured
> countries that are fairly socialist

Please describe the ways in which some countries are "fairly" socialist but
aren't actually socialist. I'm not aware of a single example of a socialist
nation succeeding in any regard towards creating prosperity for its people.
Nor am I aware of a successful national experiment in socialism in the last
two centuries of various attempts. Every historical attempt has ended
extraordinarily badly, universally failing to accomplish high living
standards.

None of the Scandinavian nations are even remotely close to being socialist.
They all rely on the market economy, they all embrace Capitalism to
significant degrees, they all have property rights enshrined into the core of
their economies, they all allow for the vast accumulation of wealth without
forced redistribution, they all allow for the private ownership of production,
they all allow for the accumulation of and investment of capital privately,
they all utilize equity and bond markets that can be bought and traded freely
(another critical point to Capitalism), and on it goes. They're all
substantially closer to Capitalism than Socialism, which is course why they're
able to pay for their large welfare states and other actual Socialist nations
universally fail at that. Sweden for example famously had drifted too far
toward being an over-burdened welfare state - circa the 1970s and 1980s - and
had to de-regulate and de-tax their economy, which then resulted in boom
courtesy of increased Capitalism. The nations you refer to, are actually
welfare states, not Socialist - there is a very big difference.

~~~
andrewjl
Is this why IKEA, which is one of the largest non-state owned Swedish
companies is set up as Netherlands-based entity (INGKA Holding), ostensibly
for tax evasion purposes?

Sweden does have a lower corporate tax rate than the U.S., though the U.S. tax
code offsets this by providing a multitude of different deductions for
business expenses. Among other things, government imposed fines are tax
deductible as per the U.S. Tax Code. When it comes to personal tax rates,
Sweden's rate is much higher than the rate in the U.S.
([http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-scandinavian-countries-
pay...](http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-
government-spending))

Not debating the validity of your larger point here, but your assertion re
Sweden being economically free as compared to the U.S. isn't that accurate. It
is a very much a socialist nation that is also very prosperous.

~~~
adventured
I never argued that Sweden was more economically free than the US (although
frankly they may be at this point, US federal regulations have increased
drastically in the last 40 years, the regulatory burden is far larger than it
used to be). I said that Sweden was in a two decade long economic slump, and
only climbed out of it courtesy of de-regulation and de-taxation of their
economy. I'd be happy to link to several articles covering this historical
fact; the Swedish architects of that event have talked openly about how and
why they did it.

Can you name the ways in which Sweden is a Socialist nation? I'm aware of very
few things that can even be argued to define them as such. Quite the opposite,
their overwhelming characteristics economically are that they heavily rely on
the market economy determined by individual business owners and investors
rather than a command economy dictated by the State.

\- Do they allow private ownership of property, including the means of
production? Yes, Sweden's economy is almost entirely driven by private
businesses.

\- Does nearly all of their economy function around private business
ownership? Yes.

\- Do they allow the existence of so called capital classes? People whose
wealth is primarily existent in capital, investment, real estate, etc.? Yes.

\- Do they force the redistribution of wealth, so as to attempt to prevent the
existence of rich and poor classes? No.

\- Do they allow the private ownership of real estate, farm land, etc? Yes.

\- May the government arbitrarily nationalize your wealth, investments, or
business? No, that would be a rare event in Sweden.

\- Do they primarily function via the free market economy of non-coerced
trade? Or is all trade primarily dictated by the State? Right, almost entirely
free trade.

\- Does the State determine all investment priorities for all businesses? No,
quite the opposite, businesses are free to set their own priorities, build new
products at will, choose how they allocate capital.

\- Does the State dictate most allocations of capital? No, the opposite.

Things like healthcare, slightly heavy economic regulation, education - are
the primarily arguments I'm aware of regarding Sweden, however those define
them as a welfare state, not a Socialist state. The US for example has vast
free healthcare, housing, and food systems, along with a massive entitlement
system, which is why the US is also a welfare state (and not primarily a
Capitalist nation as it was a hundred years ago).

~~~
andrewjl
> \- Do they allow private ownership of property, including the means of
> production? Yes, Sweden's economy is almost entirely driven by private
> businesses.

Government spending as % of GDP is an excellent metric re size of the
government relative to the private economy. This assumes that as a nation is
more socialist, the size of the government will increase.

Sweden slightly over 50% ([http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/government-
spending-t...](http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/government-spending-to-
gdp)) U.S. 20%
([https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYONGDA188S))

I don't doubt that private property ownership is permissible in Sweden, but
the government dominates GDP as compared to any single private sector.

> \- Do they force the redistribution of wealth, so as to attempt to prevent
> the existence of rich and poor classes? No.

Sweden has higher personal tax rates than the U.S. I dispute your "No." here.

> \- May the government arbitrarily nationalize your wealth, investments, or
> business? No, that would be a rare event in Sweden.

It depends. The Swedish government is a highly functional one and will not act
capriciously. I believe they will step in and nationalize wealth/real property
if doing so was important to the wellbeing of the nation, whereas the U.S.
even during the bailouts of 2008 went through great pains to avoid direct
government ownership / control, even to the point of handing private equity
firms free risk-adjusted money.

> \- Does the State determine all investment priorities for all businesses?
> No, quite the opposite, businesses are free to set their own priorities,
> build new products at will, choose how they allocate capital.

Given the GDP % stated above, this is debatable.

> \- Does the State dictate most allocations of capital? No, the opposite.

Same as the previous point.

------
htaunay
I'm reading a lot of comments exclusively blaming communism, but when I lived
in Caracas during the first years of the Chavez presidency, I witnessed an
overwhelming public support in his favor.

Elections were won with ~70% of the votes, and I also recall various
referendum-like votes which Chavez won easily as well. Another fact that
surprised me was that every Sunday he would give these 4h long speeches, and a
crowd would invariably go to the streets/TV to watch him speak.

Later on I am aware that this scenario changed drastically, but in my layman's
eyes the first years of Chavismo seemed very democratic, and of course also
very populist (e.g. housing for the poor), which only made the governments
approval rates soar.

I'm not saying I'm pro-communism, but before pointing a finger at communism,
maybe the democratically elected Venezuelan government's incompetence,
especially regarding spending all the revenue from it's single main natural
resource on unsustainable populist programs with little ROI, should be blamed.

[Edit] Typo

~~~
willholloway
Chavez was immensely popular. A coup by the army was overturned by mass
protests.

His government was very successful by most economic metrics during his time in
his office. It is his successor that has dropped the ball with his bungling of
the currency mess. And that's the root cause of all this suffering, a bad
currency system, and low oil prices.

You call them populist programs with little ROI, but they were investments and
initiatives that were improving the lives of giant swathes of the nation's
citizens.

If the price of oil was still $100 per barrel the country wouldn't be in this
situation, and we wouldn't have all this gnashing of teeth over the inevitable
downfall of socialism.

From my position, capitalist economies shouldn't be so arrogant right now.
Instead of blaming the economic system of the country, take it as a warning
for what happens when natural resource assets stop producing bounty, or
currency exchange moves against being in your favor.

American Capitalism would not be immune from an ecological recession caused by
plausible threats like warming and ocean acidification and biodiversity loss,
and America might not always have the subsidy of the petrodollar. The dollar's
status as reserve currency is equal to a finger on the scale in all American's
economic favor.

Venezuela's present could be our future.

~~~
htaunay
Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I am not against populist programs to
aid humans in deplorable life conditions. But these have to be sustainable,
and in 3rd world South American countries, this probably and unfortunately
involves not being able to help everyone on the short term. Otherwise, you end
up inflating government spending leaving little space for maneuvering when
facing an economical crisis.

My point originally was intended at NOT blaming communism, or capitalism as
well. IMHO this seems more like a problem involving a government spending all
of it's USD100-a-barrel income like a lottery winner, and when the prices fall
to less than half of that (which by the way, most countries would welcome
happily the amount of petro Venezuela has even at USD40 a barrel) and no other
significant investments were made in alternative sources of revenue, they act
as if it was solely a natural disaster and absolve themselves of all
responsibility.

~~~
willholloway
I didn't express myself clearly, running on very low sleep, I was trying to
agree with you and elaborate on your point, except for the one statement about
the low ROI of the programs.

------
elgabogringo
And Chavez's daughter is now reported to be the Richest person in Venezuela:

[http://www.latinpost.com/articles/71424/20150812/maria-
gabri...](http://www.latinpost.com/articles/71424/20150812/maria-gabriela-
ch%C3%A1vez-net-worth-hugo-ch%C3%A1vezs-daughter-richest-woman-in-venezuela-
worth-4-2-billion.htm)

~~~
randiantech
Florencia, Cristina Kirchner's Argentinian former president daughter, had 5
million dollars in its bank account. Being daughter of a former president
seems to be the more rewarding job in our countries.
[http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/218148/florencia-
ki...](http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/218148/florencia-
kirchner%E2%80%99s-money-frozen)

------
laacz
Actually, this somehow reminds me of my childhood here in ex-USSR.

No groceries (deficit on everything worth buying), no money to by anything in
reasonable quantities, extreme inflation, state-issued coupons for different
amounts of items (you still had to pay for them, these were used for
rationing).

We were large family, so we got a right to stand for a few hours in line every
few weeks at a distant shop where families with four or more children could
shop for items not available elsewhere.

Crime rates were through the roof, but not kidnappings. Muggings, burglaries,
extortion, plain and simple beating up because you looked the wrong way. These
were the days when gangs started forming, so old rules (stand up and fight
even if you'll lose) did not work.

This story gives me shivers. It was extremely hard to provide for your
children back then. I cannot imagine how people from countries with much worse
conditions can manage.

Edit adds this paragraph. I was a child then. I thought that everything around
was a norm. I, actually, did not care much. Now I do.

------
throw89234
I grow-up in similar conditions. It is always funny when some spoiled kid with
$500 handbag calls me privileged cis-gender white male.

~~~
MaxfordAndSons
That's an odd turn... care to elaborate on the connection between government
caused economic crises in South America and identity politics among (what I
assume are) North American urbanites?

~~~
CamonZ
Marxism, Frankfurt School.

------
doozy
As someone who lives next door to Venezuela, it seems to me the situation over
there has really hit the proverbial fan.

Venezuela has been in a disastrous economic situation for years, but nowhere
as bad what we are seeing these days.

Just yesterday their government opened the border with Colombia for 12 hours
(they have kept it closed for a year) and about 125 thousand people crossed
into Colombia to buy basic groceries and medicines. 30% did not cross back.

~~~
huherto
Are people in Venezuela allowed to leave. Can you explain ?

> 30% did not cross back.

Not surprisingly. It can easily become a humanitarian problem for Colombia.
What is the political sentiment in Colombia about this ?

~~~
doozy
Venezuelans have been leaving the country for the last decade or so. There are
huge numbers of them here already.

It's not easy for them to leave because their currency is basically worthless
and access to hard currency is restricted to the well-connected.

Also the Venezuelan government closed the border about one year ago. They also
kicked out all Colombians from Venezuela. According to the Venezuelan
government everything bad that happens there is consequence of the vast
Colombian-American right wing conspiracy.

Colombians are generally cool about Venezuelans, as the two countries are very
similar to each other and have a long history together (at one point they were
part of the same country). Neither the people nor the government opposes
Venezuelan immigration, as far as I can tell.

But Colombia ain't exactly the land of milk and honey and Venezuelans know it.
If they are not rushing in greater numbers to the border is because they know
that, while there may not be any shortages or blackouts here, jobs are also
few and far between.

~~~
heyzeusalmighty
A little late to comment on my part but all but a handful of my Venezuelan
cousins have emigrated and ended up in Miami, Colombia and Argentina. And I
know its not only them who have left. Venezuela has lost an entire generation
of young professionals to their neighbors.

------
junto
Venezuela is on the brink. It has a socialist majority because previously the
rich bleed them dry. Now the boot is on the other foot and the socialists are
starving out the middle and upper classes who traditionally voted for the
elite that controlled the media in Venezuela.

So sad. At some point it will flip again and the cycle will repeat itself.

Meanwhile the US continues to pressure the socialist government through
sanctions in order to break a government that they don't approve of. Whilst
the oil price remains low, the socialist government can't profit enough to get
back on track.

The innocents, including children are going to starve, because the USA refuses
have any kind of socialist leaning government in its back yard. it's been
going on for decades. Rinse and repeat. Meanwhile the socialist "elite" make
sure that they have good on their tables and punish the middle classes for
their refusal to accept their ideology, happily lining their own bank
accounts.

It is somewhat ironic that their neighbour Colombia, that for years was the
black sheep of the region, has swapped roles with its previously rich sibling.

~~~
CamonZ
>It has a socialist majority because previously the rich bleed them dry

BS. The system was always open enough that you could make something of
yourself.

>Now the boot is on the other foot and the socialists are starving out the
middle and upper classes.

Except the upper and middle classes still have money to buy products at
exorbitant prices. Who do you think are the people who are starving to death,
having to kill wild dogs and pigeons to be able to eat something?

>Meanwhile the US continues to pressure the socialist government through
sanctions in order to break a government that they don't approve of. Whilst
the oil price remains low, the socialist government can't profit enough to get
back on track.

There is no track to get back to, Chavez,his XXI century revolution and his
cronies have always been about stealing as much as they can.

>The innocents, including children are going to starve.

Pero tienen "Patria" (but they have "Homeland").

~~~
junto
I suggest you read these for an shedding viewpoint. I'd hazard a guess that
the truth lies somewhere in between the propaganda from both sides.

[http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/13-years-after-
foi...](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/13-years-after-foiled-us-
backed-coup-right-wing-opposition-wins-venezuela-election)

[http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/20/venezuelas-
opposition...](http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/20/venezuelas-opposition-
attacking-its-own-people/)

~~~
rafaelm
As someone born, raised and currently living in Venezuela, I can tell you
that, yes, previously the elites ruled the country and created massive amounts
of poor people.

But 40 years ago, someone like my father,who came from a very modest and tiny
town in the east of the country managed to go to school, study and buy a house
and a car with my mom who also came from modest upbringing.

They managed to buy an apartment with their salary and put my sister and I
through school and college. And just like them, thousands of venezuelans had
some hope to get ahead through work.

Right now, I'm an electrical engineer thanks to them and I could work my whole
life and never be able to afford the tiniest house. I'm scraping by with less
than $100 a month and I already make more money than most people.

Why do you think most young people here have plans or have left the country?
Because they have ZERO hope of ever moving out of their parent's house or
buying a car. That was not a reality before Chavez came to power.

------
techcode
That's similar to how it was in 90's Yugoslavia during international
sanctions.

We didn't have so much crime (definitely no violent stuff like kidnaping), and
cellphone was still big grey brick Fox Mulder would pull out of his jacket ...
So sharing knowledge you've found bread or milk was spreading slower.

For those asking how come farmers aren't making huge money in such cases -
they still need to buy other stuff and that's equally/proportionally
expensive.

In case of Yugoslavia, I think pretty much all petrol/gas was smuggled in
(because international sanctions) from nearby countries.

Once you consider that mass producing food means you need to power machines
(like tractor) and ultimately transport it somehow to consumers ... Imagine
how many jerry cans had to be smuggled ...

And IMHO you're mixing cause and effect when you mention state-controlled
economies as a cause of this. It mostly fails because (for one reason or
another) country is effectively blocked from trading with the rest of the
world, and doesn't have enough variety in materials/resources to be on it's
own.

~~~
techcode
Instead of "And IMHO you're mixing cause and effect ..." I meant "And IMHO
you're mixing causation and correlation ..." making final paragraph:

And IMHO you're mixing causation and correlation when you mention state-
controlled economies as a cause of this. It mostly fails because (for one
reason or another) country is effectively blocked from trading with the rest
of the world, and doesn't have enough variety in materials/resources to be on
it's own.

------
ChuckMcM
I'm curious about the pictures of stores with "good selections at high
prices". Is there split market like the former USSR where stores without price
constraints are selling at higher prices but have a wider selection? One of
the challenges there was that suppliers would divert their supplies to the
"open price" stores because it made them more money, is that what is going on
in Venezula?

~~~
ColinCochrane
One of the captions says:

 _Store shelves that are well-stocked, like those in this bakery near Zerpa’s
house, are typically full of non-essential items set at sky-high prices_

~~~
ChuckMcM
Yes that is the caption but the picture shows a store with ample bread
products, cereals, meat selections, canned vegetables, oils and other cooking
supplies. When the discussion of the article is a "hunt for food" those things
all seem like stuff you'd consider "prey".

My question is whether or not that store is accessible to everyone (as
described by my father, in the USSR the 'diplomatic' stores were not open to
regular citizens) and if the prices are extortionate or merely market priced.

The root of those questions are whether or not an actual economy could be
bootstrapped underneath the current mess or if it is too late for that. It is
a sad story either way.

~~~
mzs
In Poland you could exchange hard currency like US Dollars and German Marks
for PeKaO bony (like coupons from national bank) and then use those in stores
like Pewex to buy everything. Later it was streamlined like all at one window
in the same store or even at check-out. I suspect that is what your father
meant by diplomatic stores. The gov wanted hard currency so that it could
import from outside the iron curtain, regular folk had no means outside of
black market and family and friends living in the west to gain hard currency,
so the stores were for tourists, foreign scholars, and diplomats essentially.

Another interesting situation in Poland was fuel rationing. Many things were
rationed, but if you were a foreigner entering the the country in the mid '80s
you could by coupons for X liters of gasoline. Then you did not even have to
wait in the long lines at fuel stations. It was not unheard of people buying
stolen fuel under a bridge or in a forest.

Most stores were bare because when inventory came-in it was quickly purchased.
Since the prices were controlled people had enough zloty but not enough to
spend it on so buying items like paper was desirable because later you could
barter it for items you needed on the black market.

------
acd
Venezuela tries to impose price controls on items below market prices.
According to the book Economics in one lesson chapter 17 government price
fixing does not work in the long run and leads to shortages of goods.

Economics in one lesson is available for free from the Ludwig von Mises
institute. [https://mises.org/files/henry-hazlitt-economics-one-
lessonpd...](https://mises.org/files/henry-hazlitt-economics-one-
lessonpdf/download?token=xBmgeDG7)

------
daxorid
Looking at this disaster, I have to wonder why most people regard "preppers"
as crazy.

~~~
internaut
I agree, keeping 'food insurance' is far from crazy.

You can buy MREs that last five to ten years.

They won't solve all problems but they will certainly give you time to react
appropriately e.g. escaping an area or growing food for the following year.

Does anybody remember James Burke's Connections? The very first episode on how
to live in a global downturn?

~~~
_delirium
I agree, but that doesn't really require being part of the whole "prepper"
subculture, which seems to focus more on scenarios where you're surviving a
complete breakdown of society for decades in a bunker. In countries where
infrastructure has historically been prone to interruptions, it's fairly
common for people to store a good amount of preserved food, but they aren't
seen as preppers, just people with a storehouse (which is basically an
oversized pantry). My Greek grandparents always had a fairly large supply of
food, for example.

I do think many Americans are too far to the unprepared extreme, where a two-
day interruption of normal services caused by e.g. a tropical storm sends
everyone panicking, because they in some cases literally don't even have one
day's worth of food in their house.

~~~
internaut
Yeah I think that Hollywood has done a number on some people. Surviving isn't
that glamorous in real life.

I think for most people having 1 to 3 months of food is ample but if you're in
a political troublespot you should triple or quintuple that. It's all about
using your wits while not going over the top.

------
jtlienwis
Suffering from the disease of central government. We need a telethon to stamp
this disease out. Look how many were killed in the 20th century because of it.
Ideology infects a people then gets turned to government implementation, and
when things go badly wrong, it can't be fixed until it collapses and the
people finally start to learn their lesson.

------
joesmo
Sounds like communist Romania in the 80's. The main difference there was that
the state had a near monopoly on violence, which they used constantly. Even
people who were starving were mostly too scared of the government to
contemplate violence.

Sounds like it's time for new elections or executions of the assholes in
power.

------
the_vzlan
Venezuelan here. Feel Free to ask me anything.

I am in a privileged position, though, I understand the situation of 'common
people' as I work closely with them as a local business owner.

This journal is really close to the reality.

To those wondering about 'side markets' and 'farmers marking a killing', let
me explain.

There is a black market for food and any other good. Shortages are real,
especially when it comes to medicines. It's easy to find pasta or rice
comparatively. People with chronic diseases are dying - the patients that have
the medicines they need require foreign help either from family or friends.

About 5 years ago the minimum wage was about $300. Today it's $40. You can
find in any major city people looking for food in the dumpsters. [1]

Why are farmers and producers not making a killing? It's not that simple, but
there's definitely people making a killing: black market traffickers which are
mostly politicians and military men in strategic positions.

I know a few farmers, so I will speak from experience. This farmer friend I
have - let's call him Jose, produces milk and his family has been doing so for
more than 40 years.

Jose is the vet in the farm. Venezuela was suffering a long drought due "El
Nino" that also affected the electric service. Cows were producing less milk
due this - medicines for cows are really hard to get (probiotics, antibiotics,
etc), food for animals is mostly imported - just like medicines. The biggest
problem, though, is what's brought us here: The government economic policies.

The market for foreign currencies is regulated. Only the government and
through the government currencies can be exchanged. Since the government
depends heavily on oil for foreign currency we've seen quite a dip in imports.
In other words, the government lacks liquidity. Which is why it's really hard
to legally obtain imported goods, so if you produce in Venezuela and sell your
product in Bolivares (local currency) you would have to get Dollars (foreign
currency) to import anything - the government is basically saying no to 95% of
requests for currency exchange.

The market for [most] producers is highly regulated. No milk producer can
produce milk higher than the fixed price given by the government. For most,
there's no incentive.

The government is printing money like crazy making inflation soar (we have the
highest inflation in the world! [2])

As you can see, most producers have no incentive as they will not see profit
in their ventures since they have a cap for what they can sell the product
for.

Imagine that the U.S government says by law "1 pound of rice will cost $1 or
less" and anyone selling for more is breaking the law. If the cost of
producing rice is $0.1c this would be fine, however, for the rice producer
each pound of rice costs $1.5 - how many people do you think are going to
produce rice? This happens in Venezuela in almost all product categories
(milk, coffee, beans, rice, pasta, flour, and I could keep going, the list is
really long).

What has the government done to fix the issue? Basically, nothing since their
policy "fixes" is to control more and more our economy.

The government solution to the food shortages and I must say, this is really
hard to explain, is to give out bags of food with goods distributed by the
"own people in the community". I don't see how will this ever work, since
while it's not free they're giving out a bag for $1 that in the black market
can easily go for $10, a golden goose for the corrupt. The government is
completely ignoring, what in my opinion is far worse, which is, the lack of
medicines of any kind for the most part.

The government controls the media, the military, and all forces but one - the
legislative power, though through political tricks they've found ways to
mostly neutralize it. This year - 2016 - we could potentially have a
referendum, though the government is making everything it can to avoid it and
I must, sadly say, I believe they're succeeding.

[1] [http://www.el-nacional.com/sucesos/Venezolanos-
desesperados-...](http://www.el-nacional.com/sucesos/Venezolanos-desesperados-
buscan-comida-basura_0_850715221.html)

[2] [http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/12/news/economy/venezuela-
imf-e...](http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/12/news/economy/venezuela-imf-economy/)

~~~
internaut
This will sound like a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway.

Why can't they just drop the price controls?

I expect it is ideological, but surely being alive trumps ideology (in that
you'll starve or else people who have decided to become more flexible will
kill you).

~~~
the_vzlan
I have given a lot of thought to this question. It seems fairly simple but
given that they've taken the other route, that is, force more controls, the
government would look bad.

I think there's a lot of internal problems within the ruling party in regards
to what should be done. Unfortunately, the president is the one unwilling to
see differently or "betray" his ideology (or so it seems).

There are also subsidies to most products (as the government solution to some
of the price caps) and last thing that has been said (in an informal setting
by the VP) was that "the subsidies have been a mistake" and that they will try
to fix it with some sort of "basic income" but only for the poor rather than
for everyone - which opens another HUGE opportunity for white collar
corruption - something the government seems to love and cherish.

In short, the president preaches a radicalism that would go against taking
"neo-liberal economic policies" and by doing so he (I assume), perceives that
the public will find him weak. Which, paradoxically, he already is. In my
view, Nicolas Maduro (our president) is in an impossible situation in which
the best he can do is to step away - but this opens another pandora box that
he seems unwilling to go for, as such he's doing everything in his power to
avoid a referendum or any sort of democratic solution.

~~~
internaut
If yourself or rafaelm could do with a food supply package and the postal
system is working correctly, then email me with an address and list of hard to
source foodstuffs. My email is my HN username AT fastmail.fm

~~~
rafaelm
Thanks a lot I really appreciate it! If you want to help, I'll see if I can
find a trustworthy organization that is helping kids that need food and
medicine. They are the most vulnerable right now.

In their sick political games, the venezuelan government is not receiving any
foreign aid because they say we don't need it. I'm not sure if there are any
private organizations receiving donations. I know some of the door-to-door
shipping companies the_vzlan mentions are receiving medicine and food packages
but I really don't know if they are to be trusted.

~~~
internaut
> I'll see if I can find a trustworthy organization that is helping kids that
> need food and medicine.

Sure, just pass on some information to my email address.

------
ensiferum
Why is it that all the ex Spanish colonies are pretty much 3rd world shit
holes and all the ex British colonies are doing pretty well. Any causality??

~~~
nikdaheratik
Since both countries "owned" a good part of the world real estate at some
point in their history, it seems pretty easy to cherry-pick and find something
to support whatever point you're trying to make.

The only real insight I've found is that colonialism is a bad idea and you
shouldn't do it anymore.

------
gscott
There is another article that mentions Venezuela is fully making their debt
payments rather then defaulting. This crisis could be avoided

[http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/29/venezuela-is-making-
surreal-s...](http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/29/venezuela-is-making-surreal-
suicidal-debt-payments.html)

------
aianus
Shouldn't rural farmers be making a killing in these conditions? (eg. give me
USD or your old iPhone/car and I'll deliver you homemade milk and bread for X
months)

~~~
GFischer
They probably have ways to divert some supplies to the black market, but most
is seized by the military or outright stolen.

[http://www.breitbart.com/national-
security/2016/07/13/venezu...](http://www.breitbart.com/national-
security/2016/07/13/venezuela-deploys-army-keep-people-limited-food-supply/)

[http://www.wsj.com/articles/crime-wave-lashes-venezuelas-
alr...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/crime-wave-lashes-venezuelas-already-
battered-farms-1456871545)

------
goombastic
Sometimes I wonder if all of the online computers, internet, apps and other
stuff makes any sense. We have complicated our lives unnecessarily and
multiplied beyond the capacity of our plant to hold us meaningfully or have a
life with any semblance of contemplation.

~~~
icebraining
What makes online computers & etc different? You could say that about many
technologies, even about agriculture. Life was much simpler and sustainable
when we were hunter-gatherers (I'm being sincere, not facetious).

In my opinion, whether they are "necessary" is irrelevant (by objective
measures, most things aren't) and simplicity is not a meaningful goal in
itself.

~~~
clarkmoody
Simpler, yes. But everyone lived near subsistence, and maximum population
density was enforced by war, human sacrifice, and starvation.

~~~
icebraining
Yet, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-
primitivism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-primitivism)

------
nolepointer
But this isn't real socialism ... _obviously_.

------
madengr
Wow, reads like Atlas Shrugged. Could easily happen in this country. I feel
bad for the 45% that didn't support the socialists.

~~~
sxcurry
Well, not exactly like Atlas Shrugged, because the article is well written and
coherent.

~~~
angersock
And short.

~~~
vixen99
All of which goes to show that a novel can be highly influential and immensely
successful albeit that it's badly written, incoherent, very long and subject
to scathing critiques as in:

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The
Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often
engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an
emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real
world. The other, of course, involves orcs." \- John Rogers.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged)

~~~
ktRolster
That's not a scathing critique, it's a joke. It resonates well with people who
already dislike Atlas Shrugged (including myself), but it doesn't convince
anyone. Those who like Atlas Shrugged will read it, maybe laugh, then
correctly point out that it's not a well-reasoned argument, it's a joke.

~~~
xenadu02
True enough. Plenty of legitimate criticisms are available... The main
character is apparently great though she built nothing; her father did all the
work. The complete discounting of the workers who do the actual laying of
rails and running of trains. Galt steals IP that rightfully belongs to his
employer (and was developed with his employer's resources). The fact that
they'd all die of starvation or be reduced to subsistence farmers in Galt's
Gulch.

The book is a hilarious caricature of reality.

------
cowardlydragon
This is of course getting a ton of press in Commie hating USA, but how much
worse is this than narcostates or right-wing deathsquad-enforced regimes set
up by the US?

And of course since the US/CIA loved to plot overthrows and juntas, how could
the country trust aid offers? And the wire recordings of Henry Kissinger
trying to deliberately collapse the Argentinian economy before their
takeover...

I get that this is site is often a huge capitalistic libertarian O-jerk, and
I'm not naive to the logistical failings of authoritarian socialism, but I
wonder what the full story is here...

~~~
clock_tower
The people didn't starve under the US-backed dictatorships, so those regimes
have that much going for them. But they didn't starve under Castro either, and
living conditions were probably better under Castro than in any country in the
Warsaw Pact (see Anthony Daniels' _Utopias Elsewhere_); so I'd guess that most
of the story is that Chavez was just that dumb.

~~~
Aloha
An Island like Cuba is just small enough to make actual communism possibly
work - it has just slightly less people that the Los Angeles Metro area does -
it also has a very homogeneous cultural background. Cuba however isn't quite
rich enough in natural resources to actually reach autarky however, if it was,
Cuba might be a very different story.

I'm not a proponent of anything Authoritarian, but communism on a small scale
does fascinate me.

~~~
CWuestefeld
_just small enough to make actual communism possibly work_

This is an important distinction. Humans evolved in tribes, and many of our
instinctual responses to how we _think_ we should work together are optimized
for such a setting. But these things just can't scale upwards. There are many
things that work well at a community level that fall apart with larger groups.
So when we see a problem in the world and feel our heart-strings tugged, we
should be suspicious that our emotional response is something that can really
make sense in the big picture.

I do agree that such things might be able to work at small scales. But I
suspect that the threshold is well below the size that you're citing here.

~~~
Aloha
I suspect the threshold is actually about 450 people - but if you scale that
up, and have multiple units of 450 people each - then you start to have
something workable. The long term problem with planned economies is the
inherent inflexibility and immovability in the face of changing realities.

Markets work because they are irrational, and move with people as situations
change - like a subconscious reflex - planned economies require conscious
effort to reapportion their efforts in the face of change.

The solution to socialism is collectives - lots of little ones from 50-500
people, which then interact with each other using market settlement and price
adjustment mechanisms.

