
North Korea Owes Sweden €300m for 1000 Volvos It Stole 40 Years Ago - niccolop
http://europe.newsweek.com/north-korea-owes-sweden-eu300m-1000-volvos-stole-40-years-ago-still-using-267043?rm=eu
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misja111
1000 Volvo's for 300 million, that's 300,000 euro per Volvo. Granted, the
article says 'adjusted for interest and inflation'. But that seems wrong, if
you had the choice in the 70's to buy a Volvo but instead you put the money on
the bank, you would have only the accumulated interest by now, not anything
else to offset the inflation.

Calculating backwards with an average 4% interest rate for 45 years gives an
original price of about 55,000 euro in 1971. For that money you could buy a
villa in Sweden around then.

~~~
paganel
The Swedish Government are as good as professional loan-sharks at getting back
what they are due, and sometime using similar tactics.

Case in point, my country was paid $28 million in 1929 by the Swedish
Government (or a specific Swedish company, not sure) so that the Swedes would
take over control over the entire matches market in Romania, becoming a
monopolist, in fact. This by itself is no thing to brag home about, but that's
how capitalism works.

20 years later a new regime is installed, the communists, who don't have a
pretty view on capitalism much less so on monopolistic practices in which they
are not the main actors, so they decide to nationalize the Romanian matches
industry from under the Swedes' control.

Come 1989 and the fall of Communism the Swedes become active again and now ask
us for $800 million as compensation, never mind that most probably the initial
investment had most certainly paid by itself in those 20 years in which it had
monopolistic control over a quite big market. To make sure that they get their
money back a Swedish official even bribes one of our economy ministers with
around $600,000 (for which said Swedish official had some issues at home,
probably nothing came out of it), and it all got settled down for "only" $120
million in 2003.

This only happens because countries like Sweden have a disproportionate
influence on the world stage. We (Romania) also got swindled out of $1 billion
by Saddam's Iraq, the cost of us selling things and services to them in the
1980s. After Saddam fell the Iraqi Government and its babysitters (the US)
never felt the urgency of paying us back, our Government also closed their
eyes because the US is "actively protecting us against the bad Russian Bear
from the East", plus, if a country like Romania would ask for such a big sum
of money back you can be pretty sure that no-one in the Western media would
pick the story up like it happened in Sweden's case.

~~~
berntb
Come on, there were lots of cases in Eastern Europe where previous owners
wanted compensation for property that was stolen by the communists. (This gets
extra weight when demands come from inside the EU when the country wants to
join the EU, of course.)

Not saying the official Swedish policies aren't disgusting in their shameless
double standards, of course.

References to that bribe would be interesting for me, to put on FB for my
Swedish friends? (I'm Swedish and have been quite a bit in Romania. This is
the first time I hear about it. I don't doubt you, news like that don't really
show up in Swedish media -- see previous paragraph.)

I should add -- if you want to talk compensation, talk about how the whole
western Europe left the eastern Europe to rot as slaves for generations. :-(

Edit: After the 1980s, the US and Saddam weren't on the best of terms. :-)

Edit 2: lostlogin is correct. Forget previous Edit please, I read sloppily.
The comment talks about after 2003, not after the 1980s.

~~~
DominikR
> if you want to talk compensation, talk about how the whole western Europe
> left the eastern Europe to rot as slaves for generations.

You've got that wrong, western European countries have no responsibility to do
anything for eastern Europeans aside from being respectful partners.

It is the eastern Europeans responsibility to improve their own societies if
they want to.

Astonishing how anyone could even claim victimhood about that.

~~~
berntb
The point is -- Eastern Europe was in practice left under occupation by one of
history's worst dictators as part of signing the peace after the 2nd world
war.

It is shocking, when you read up on the subject and see how many percent of
the population ended up in horrible jails in the "less" bad places like
Romania.

And yeah, you don't risk global nuclear war over other people's liberty. (A
good reason why places like Iran and North Korea want to go nuclear.)

~~~
DominikR
No, no one "left" someone under occupation, it wasn't the decision to make for
the West in the first place. The responsibility for the US is primarily for
what happens in the US, the same is true for the UK and Romania.

Romanians ran the Gestapo like security apparatus called "Securitate",
Romanians ran the Romanian army and Romanians ran the Romanian government.
Whatever happened in Romania is primarily the fault of Romanians. Don't tell
me how I should have fought or even died for your freedom, better ask yourself
why your people didn't do it.

There are examples of other countries (like Socialist Yugoslavia) that fought
for their freedom against the Nazis, and who then stayed independent from the
Soviets. (even though Stalin threatened to invade)

When the Nazis came the Romanians went along with them and submitted (not only
that, but they also supplied hundreds of thousands of soldiers), when the
Soviets came the Romanians went along with them and submitted. (again supplied
soldiers to fight for their cause)

What you are essentially doing by calling them victims is asking for some
higher authority that should make things right that you don't want to fight
for yourself. Maybe some United Nations Socialist world government? I can tell
you with absolute certainty that we are not going to have any of that. Maybe
you will though, it is your own choice. But don't blame us when it doesn't
work out the way you hoped.

~~~
berntb
In principle I agree for the 1940s, a pan European brotherhood was probably
not so important at the time. [Edit: And when they saw what they had done, it
was a MAD world...]

But Yugoslavia was a special case, there the new government didn't come in,
riding with an occupying tank army that broke the back of the population with
hunger, Siberia and torture.

Hungary 51, Czechoslovakia 68, the forest brothers of the Balkans... They did
try. Hard. (Edit: Note -- when it was clear that Soviet tanks wouldn't roll in
over the borders any more, the dictators went out quickly.)

Democracies _should_ try to spread the liberty. It is the modern missionary
statement. If nothing else, it is good for everyone.

Edit: Where I would put the disagreement: History shows that a brutal enough
junta _can_ keep a population down for generations. 1984, with history as a
foot stomping in a face. (The junta probably needs control over the
information for that to work.) So a population have an impossible time freeing
itself from a pack of criminals without external help. And it is the moral
duty for free societies to aid in this. (I hate idealism. But this is one I
can stand for.)

~~~
DominikR
I'm not in any brotherhood, I'm not a missionary and I'm not waging some kind
of Jihad to spread my ideology in the world.

You seem to not recognise that freedom cannot be obtained without self
responsibility as you are constantly seeking to minimize the responsibility
that people had for their own bad decisions and the bad outcomes that resulted
from it.

~~~
berntb
Soviet literally sent most of a troublesome population (and large parts of
others) to Siberia. After 1945, a few percent in prison with torture was mild.
Troublesome countries/populations could be _permanently_ cured.

You really write I " _minimize the responsibility that people had for their
own bad decisions_ " \-- when I note that the populations knew that if they
rocked the boat it would end with mass deportations to Gulag and/or genocide?
(In many cases -- again!)

Seriously... Enough.

Edit: A large fraction of Lithuania did try and paid the price. Deportations
and political prisoners in Gulags was 15+% of the population of around 2
millions in total then (see Demographics_of_Lithuania on wikipedia). The point
was made that Soviet had no problem continuing up to 100%.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Lithu...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_deportations_from_Lithuania)

~~~
DominikR
It is one thing what I personally dislike (for example what happened in
Romania) and what I'm vocal against (Communism, Socialism) and what my country
is responsible to fight for. (especially if the adversary was the Soviet
Union)

You are not going to convince me that the West is responsible for what
happened in Romania unless you prove that the West forced you into Communism
and actively helped to keep this Gulag system running.

The only case you seem to make is that countries like Romania and Lithuania
are no real sovereign nations because they are too weak. Am I right? What's
your suggestion to solve this? You submit to someone else who is not the
Soviet Union? Or you hope you'll find someone who will risk his safety for you
for free?

~~~
berntb
1\. I am not Romanian, be careful with personal details in personal attacks.

2\. Most of the world's countries will be weaker than some neighbour.

USA have not gotten enough credit, I'll agree with that, but I'll also dismiss
you by hoping that you're a troll.

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clarry
I have a 20-year-old swedish car that I wouldn't mind keeping in mint
condition for another twenty years. But how do I do that (while still keeping
it in service)? Rust in particular seems to be a big killer. It doesn't help
that the manufacturer is no longer around and spares are likely to become hard
to obtain. Did the North Koreans buy spares for their Volvos?

~~~
jbmorgado
They have total access to a lot of industrial equipment to create proper parts
replacements in case they need it.

------
pscsbs
Ah, the power of compounding.

------
caf
(2014)

It's probably more now!

------
mzs
NK seems to have a thing for MB, exhibit A - Kaengsaeng 88:

[http://www.caranddriver.com/features/cars-from-north-
korea-f...](http://www.caranddriver.com/features/cars-from-north-korea-
features)

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cagataygurturk
Communism always liked volvo. East german officials also had volvo's while
their people was waiting 10 years for a Trabant.

------
jwatte
"Then the Swedes nuked everybody." \-- Now we know how it comes about!

~~~
mrweasel
Interesting, and a little scary: Sweden did actually have a nuclear weapons
program during 50s and 60s.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nuclear_weapons_progra...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_nuclear_weapons_program)

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mixermf
What about statute of limitations?

~~~
roel_v
What statute of limitations?

~~~
peteretep
Unacknowledged debts expire in most jurisdictions

~~~
roel_v
Huh? No they don't, that'd be an easy way to get rid of debt - just ignore it!

~~~
philjohn
They do in the UK. If you don't acknowledge a debt for 6 years, and during
that 6 years the creditor doesn't take legal action against you, the debt
becomes unenforceable - statute barred debt is the technical term.

The debt still exists, they can still harass you about it, but you cannot be
taken to court and made to pay.

Now, in most cases, that doesn't happen that frequently, as most creditors
would take you to court well before the 6 years are up.

~~~
roel_v
Sure if the creditor doesn't take action. The Swedes have been taking action
for decades.

