
Tim Draper defends Theranos and its disgraced founder and CEO, Elizabeth Holmes - aj7
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/check-out-this-surreal-chat-with-theranos-investor-who-says-hes-thrilled/
======
colmvp
> “Why is [Theranos] worthless? It’s worthless because this writer was like a
> badger going after her, like a hyena going after her, and then it became a
> bigger and bigger thing,” he said. “She got bullied into submission,” Draper
> explained, adding that if it weren’t for Carreyrou and other opponents,
> Theranos “could have been one of these big, huge winners.”

And we would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling
journalist!!! _shakes fist in the air_

~~~
arcticfox
Tim clearly has some screws loose. I just learned today that he has a
fabulously wealthy father; that explains a _lot_.

~~~
sarreph
While it's clear that the vast majority of us do not agree with Draper's
comments here, let's not attempt to discredit someone based on their (wealthy
or otherwise) financial background.

~~~
twic
I took this to mean something like "that explains how he has been able to
become and continue to be a high-profile venture capitalist despite having a
screw loose", rather than "that explains why he has a screw loose".

------
pg_bot
Listen to the full interview here: [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/early-
theranos-investor-tim-...](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/10/early-theranos-
investor-tim-draper-defends-elizabeth-holmes-and-her-vision.html)

As the founder of a healthcare company, Tim's statement here is the one that I
found the most dangerous

"If all she had to do was say this was a beta or whatever and all of us would
be using it, would be loving it."

When it comes to people's health you must have concrete evidence that your
product works and is robust. Blood testing is not a field where people accept
mistakes. Anyone working in this field is used to scrutiny, it is your burden
to prove that what you are working on is safe and useful.

There are a lot of quacks, hucksters, and fakes out there proceed with
caution.

~~~
johndevor
> Blood testing is not a field where people accept mistakes.

I don't think this is true. There are blood tests that don't always work. Lyme
disease is one that is not accurately detected.

~~~
pg_bot
To clarify, a mistake is an error which causes the tests to be invalidated.
Theranos had to throw out all Edison test results for 2014 and 2015. Clinical
decisions were made as a result of these tests and it is not unreasonable to
believe that patients may have been harmed as a result of faulty information.
This would be the equivalent of a plane crash for an airliner.

False positives and false negatives will occur with all testing and there are
protocols in place to detect false readings. While most tests are accurate, an
inaccurate result is not considered a mistake since the tests themselves are
not perfect. (Given that you followed proper procedure)

------
a-dub
The Drapers are weird. I guess the family has been rich for a long time and
they've made a lot of investments, but I don't really see a clear track record
of being particularly good at picking winners.

I was at a Bitcoin trade show a few years ago and his son was there pumping
his Bitcoin specific venture fund. Quite honestly, he struck me as an enormous
asshole. He was on a few panels with people who actually knew how that stuff
works and he would just talk right over them again and again in an almost
derogatory capacity. It was like zany high school shit.

Also these are the crazy people that want to split California up, well you
know, just 'cause.

~~~
perl4ever
According to the BBC, Russia has been funding and promoting the California
secessionists, among other similar movements.

See: [http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-
trending-41853131](http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-41853131)

Edit: This is a direct explanation of why "just 'cause" is misleading or
incomplete, based on public information from mainstream media.

~~~
zasz
Dunno why you're getting downvoted. It's true, and it only adds to the Drapers
being enormous assholes; it doesn't contradict that. The leader of the
#calexit campaign was an American who was living in Russia. Plus Russia's been
funding far-right parties in Europe.

~~~
icebraining
_Dunno why you 're getting downvoted_

Because splitting up into multiple states is not the same as seceding.

~~~
perl4ever
This is true. On the other hand, just because it is well publicized the
Russians are promoting one movement to disrupt California is not a definitive
argument that they aren't involved in another. The pattern has been to promote
multiple sides of any possible conflict. Draper was reportedly going to get
some assistance[1] from Nigel Farage, of Brexit fame, and Farage has been
denying[2] Russian connections recently.

[1] [http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-
alert...](http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-
alert/article141291273.html)

[2] [http://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-
brexit-69...](http://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-
brexit-698486)

------
bertjk
Tim Draper probably understands, privately, that Theranos is an unrecoverable
loss. Privately, he has probably learned a lesson about doing better due
diligence going forward. Publicly, he is doing what he thinks will benefit him
the most: he is signalling to all prospective future investments, that, "If
you take my money, I will stand by you through thick and thin." Some future
founders might be turned off by this, but some will probably see it as
invaluable.

~~~
anitil
Wow I like the way you think! Hit me in a blind spot I never knew I had.

~~~
mlevental
that people have public and private opinions and they know when and where to
express both?

~~~
anitil
You've stumped me here, I've been wondering what I meant for a day now.

I think its more a combination of the fact that he was simultaneously saying
things to both parties, and the fact that he was willing to look foolish in
the process. I'm not expressing it well.

------
erik_landerholm
Remember this gem: [https://www.quora.com/What-is-your-review-of-Draper-
Universi...](https://www.quora.com/What-is-your-review-of-Draper-University)

I know people that did it, total joke/scam.

------
apo
_Amid his mind-boggling defense, the investor did admit that Theranos was now
in the “loser column” of his investments list, a list that also includes Tesla
and Bitcoin._

The Silk Road assets are likely up 10x or more:

[https://www.coindesk.com/tim-draper-revealed-silk-road-
bitco...](https://www.coindesk.com/tim-draper-revealed-silk-road-bitcoin-
auction-winner/)

If Draper has lost on Bitcoin, it would mean he's done an abysmal job of
investing in cryptocurrency since the government auction.

~~~
Aditya_Garg
Since Tesla hasn't dipped or crashed recently, Im assuming that the "list"
refers to his investment list, not the loser column. It's just a poorly
written sentence.

------
NelsonMinar
Theranos' fraud endangered peoples' health. It's shameful that someone like
Draper would defend that.

~~~
michaelcampbell
He's only defending his money. That it was Theranos is just a minor side
effect to him.

------
jgalt212
Kind of a flyer here, but perhaps Draper has been advised to stake out this
position as still being a "true believer" because it minimizes his litigation
exposure in the case he sold some of shares before the SEC case/investigation
became public knowledge.

------
kemiller2002
From what I understand about biology (which is little), there was no real way
this was ever going to work. Am I missing something?

~~~
amacbride
What they promised is _theoretically_ possible, but they ran afoul of the huge
practical problems that made people with actual biology and engineering
backgrounds (like myself) very, very skeptical.

~~~
dnautics
it's not theoretically possible, due to the statistics of small numbers. You
can resolve the nanotainer problem by collecting many of them, but by the time
you can measure a statistical difference, you might as well have collected a
large volume of blood in the first place.

------
sk5t
Even doomsday cults find ways to rationalize their mistakes when the
apocalypse misses its schedule--why should an investor born into his money be
any different?

------
matchagaucho
I still believe in the Theranos _vision_ of walking into a CVS Pharmacy (or
7Eleven) and letting a machine instantly tell me my iron is low and
recommending certain supplements.

The _approach_ to achieving this vision, unfortunately, used the Silicon
Valley "fake it till you make it" playbook that clearly crossed both ethical
and moral lines.

------
luckydata
Man, every time I think I ran out of reasons to think poorly of Tim Draper he
opens his mouth and gives me one more.

------
marcoperaza
Just because someone has a lot of money or a fancy title doesn’t mean they’re
smarter or more capable than anyone else. Time and chance happen to them all.

------
md2be
Tim Draper and the VCs of his generation were born on the technological
equivalent of 3rd base.

------
nova22033
John Carreyrou's book is coming out end of May. Already pre-ordered. Can't
wait.

~~~
sus_007
May 21st, already pre-ordered the audiobook too. I've never listened to an
audiobook this long. 11 hr 36 minutes.

~~~
sitkack
[https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Blood-Secrets-Silicon-
Valley/dp/1...](https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Blood-Secrets-Silicon-
Valley/dp/152473165X)

------
al2o3cr
"And I woulda gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!"

------
dhimes
There is so much I'll never understand about business, business people, and
people who remain loyal to them. I wonder if I s/business/<different
category>/g will I see the same thing?

------
marze
So I haven’t really followed this, but were tests performed that directly
compared Theranos blood testing vs existing blood testing? What were the
results?

~~~
MS-DDOS
The Theranos folks discussed some results using the mini-lab vs Siemens
equipment during a presentation to the AACC: [1]

My understanding is that their ability to perform __some tests __, and to do
it accurately was real, such as their FDA approved herpes test. However the
number of tests they could perform on a single sample (primarily due to
volume?) was drastically lower than they claimed. They were also found to be
diluting samples, and had poor lab practices in a number of instances: [2] [3]
[4]

When dealing with people's health there is no room for inaccuracy as other's
lives and well-fare potentially hang in the balance.

[1]: [https://youtu.be/n6JRG733ReQ](https://youtu.be/n6JRG733ReQ) [2]:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/study...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/study-
raises-questions-about-accuracy-of-theranos-blood-testing-services/) [3]:
[http://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-study-compares-
blood...](http://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-study-compares-blood-tests-
to-quest-and-labcorp) [4]: [https://www.wsj.com/articles/theranos-devices-
often-failed-a...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/theranos-devices-often-failed-
accuracy-requirements-1459465578)

------
aerovistae
> "Theranos is now in the loser column of his investments, a list which
> includes Tesla"

What? WHY IS THAT SLIPPED IN THERE? Tesla hasn't crashed nor dropped
substantially in value. I am just so confused by this statement.

~~~
Zhenya
Possibly, the writer meant that Tesla is one of his investments.

------
onetimemanytime
_> >“Why is [Theranos] worthless? It’s worthless because this writer was like
a badger going after her, like a hyena going after her, and then it became a
bigger and bigger thing,”_

He has a point: if it weren't for the press discovering her fraud, Theranos
would still be going and still be valued billions. WSJ should have stood back.
Yeah, maybe thousands would have died due to bad blood tests but hey, it's a
great idea that decades from now might work. And Tim would have made even more
money.

/sarcasm, if it's not obvious

------
Molaxx
Why is this an AMP link and not a direct link?

------
pkaye
"And I would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids."

------
jl2718
“Loser” doesn’t mean “lost money”. His shares were liquid and increased ~1000x
in value. If he hadn’t sold already, he would have held a board seat at the
end.

Tim Draper understands the hype machine better than anybody else. He knows how
it works, and when it will stop working.

------
TelAvivHacker
Can’t blame him for trying. It puts a seed of an alternate story into our
minds. How do other streams of “alternative facts” get started? And many
people want to believe that Big Medicine is keeping breakthroughs from us.

~~~
dhimes
_Can’t blame him for trying._

I can. I can definitely blame people for being amoral unless they have some
brain damage/dysfunction whereby they don't know the difference.

------
guiomie
Am I not the only one who feels like Tim Draper is like the Trump of the VC
world?

------
fred_is_fred
I'm guessing this is basic psychology. It's easier to blame a reporter for
something you invested in so heavily than to admit on national TV that you
screwed up. None of these big shot investors want to admit that they got
defrauded, it makes them look foolish.

~~~
charlesdm
They only got defrauded because they couldn't flip their stake to the next
fool..

~~~
jl2718
Ha! Why would you assume he didn’t?

------
josephjrobison
> “Amid his mind-boggling defense, the investor did admit that Theranos was
> now in the “loser column” of his investments list, a list that also includes
> Tesla and Bitcoin.“

Interestingly, at Collision Conf this year, while on stage being interviewed,
he was pumping up Bitcoin like it was going to the moon. Strange investor I
guess.

------
allisterb
Can't people stop beating this dead horse already. She screwed up, her company
is dead, just let her be.

~~~
perl4ever
I think "screwing up" has an incorrect connotation that she didn't commit
fraud deliberately. People who have never been anywhere near a coal mine
express anger at Don Blankenship for contributing to the deaths of dozens of
people via deceiving inspectors. So it doesn't seem strange that people would
continue to be angry at Holmes, when everybody depends on medical services
such as blood tests that they can trust. Ordinary people almost always die in
circumstances that only amount to statistics and not a newsworthy outrage, but
surely it is an injustice if casualties are deemed irrelevant in a situation
like this.

~~~
hycaria
I thought they didn't release products?

~~~
icebraining
They were making blood tests on some Walgreen stores. I'm not exactly sure if
those were using their (flawed) process or faking it by using existing
processes.

[https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/2018/03/20/5952049...](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
shots/2018/03/20/595204989/reporters-notebook-theranos-and-the-mysterious-
walgreens-fire-alarm)

