
How Richard Stallman Browses the Internet - coconutrandom
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/134979
======
jdietrich
I think a lot of us have forgotten that once upon a time, computers were
considered _thinking machines_ , not just glorified internet teletypes.
Computers were world-changing machines long before we joined them all
together.

Given what RMS does all day and what seems to matter to him, this seems
perfectly rational to me. Consider how old the GNU tools are, or how long some
of them go between revisions. I don't think Stallman needs or wants to keep up
with things in real time. I think Stallman is like Tolkien's Ents - he isn't
slow, he's just operating on a different timescale to the rest of us.

It's the same sort of logic behind Tim Ferriss not answering his phone or Don
Knuth doing his email in six-month batches - if you create enough latency in
your connection to the world, you bring everyone else to your pace and avoid
having to worry about minutiae. It's amazing how many problems resolve
themselves when given sufficient neglect.

~~~
tailrecursion
"Bring[ing] everyone else to your pace" by increasing latency struck me as a
really nice idea. It suggests an additional feature that could be added to a
site like Hacker News, where each reader can choose an update interval, and
have news delivered on that interval.

The key is to use a ranking procedure that is appropriate for the interval, so
that the reader doesn't get new stuff for that day, but the best over N days
(or N seconds -- not everyone is Richard Stallman).

This feature may be silly and unoriginal; but I'm commenting on the internet
so I thought it fit.

[Edit: when I said "delivered" I didn't mean by email! Just "updated".]

~~~
doron
This reminds me of the project SlowMail

i only could find the cache: <http://bit.ly/c9dWWF>

~~~
KERMIT
Don't use shortened URLs here, please. This isn't twitter; post the full URL.

~~~
RevRal
The url goes to a May 20, 2010, google cache.

 _Why?_ [edit: Okay, I didn't see that he could only find the cache. Just for
future reference doron, at the top of the webshot is displayed the URL.]

Here's the URL unshortened and uncached:
<http://www.slowlab.net/slowmail.html>

~~~
doron
I know, the web-server did not respond at the time of posting, that is the
reason why i posted the cache, and therefore didn't see the reason to post the
full URL.

~~~
scott_s
Because I want to know where I'm going before I click the link.

------
jackchristopher
Well, Paul has a similar "quirk". He uses two PCs. Everyone's seen this by
now: <http://www.paulgraham.com/distraction.html> Also Linus disliked using
Google's net connection for his Git talk. Here's one relevant excerpt:

 _When I am here (Google) I cannot read my e-mails because my e-mail goes onto
my machine and the only way I can get into that machine is when I am
physically on that network. So maybe I am a cuckoo, maybe I am a bit crazy,
and I care about security more than most people do._
[https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/LinusTalk200705Transcr...](https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/LinusTalk200705Transcript)

In another part he was about to demonstrates a kernel diff, but stops when he
realized he's disconnected from Google's net. Here's the talk:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8> One of my favorites; a classic.
And I don't even do software.

------
mnemonicsloth
<http://richard.stallman.usesthis.com/>

This isn't the half of it:

 _What hardware are you using?

I am using a Lemote Yeelong, a netbook with a Loongson chip and a 9-inch
display. This is my only computer, and I use it all the time. I chose it
because I can run it with 100% free software even at the BIOS level._

~~~
lsb
Why isn't he mad he doesn't have the chip wiring diagrams? I'm not trying to
be a dick, I'm just wondering, at what point should a FOSS enthusiast be
content not to have the source?

~~~
fleitz
I think thats an individual choice dependent on how you allocate scarce and
valuable resources. For some open source is a moral imperative that must be
upheld at any cost. For others it's a nice to have.

It's a bit like self-reliance, for some it's important to sacrifice more
wealth to increase their self-reliance, in the end it's really what aspect(s)
of your life you want to maximize.

The issue with wiring diagrams is that most don't have a chip fab in their
basement so the benefit they receive from having wiring diagrams is mostly
intangible. I think for most people it's far more important to have a CPU that
executes a popular ISA (ie. x86) than to have wiring diagrams. Similarly, most
users receive intangible benefits from having access to the kernel source, as
they will never modify it.

I suppose if you had access to a chip fab and needed to modify your CPU design
frequently it would be important.

~~~
alain94040
[slightly rephrased] The issue with _source code_ is that most don't compile
their OS so the benefit they receive from having _source code_ is mostly
intangible. I think for most people it's far more important to have a CPU that
executes a popular _OS_ (ie. _Windows_ ) than to have _source code_.
Similarly, most users receive intangible benefits from having access to the
_wiring diagrams_ , as they will never modify it.

I have long argued that software and hardware are the same from a source code
perspective. Have you ever looked at the source code for a CPU? I have (many
CPUs: ARM, Intel, and more). It's just code like if/else statements and
assignments. Just like C (plus the extreme concurrency). Manufacturing? Yes,
it's an issue. In theory, I could wave the FPGA argument, although it's not a
practical solution.

~~~
tome
This is a fallacy that I'd like to see removed from arguments about free
software.

It doesn't matter if _you_ don't have the skill to modify it as long as others
do have the skill and freedom to modify it. They'll make changes for you!

See: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1351656>

~~~
alain94040
I agree it's a fallacy. Just note that I wasn't falling into that trap. The
original author to whom I was responding was.

My point was entirely about whether hardware source code should be treated
differently from software source code.

------
waxpancake
I wasn't sure if he was joking or not, so interviewed him back in 2008. Here's
the complete text of the interview. (I should've used the VERBOSE command.)

Q: I'm fascinated with a message I read about how you read the web with a wget
demon. Could you elaborate on it?

A: It is a program that runs wget and mails me back the result.

Q: Do you then convert the HTML to plain text and read it by email, or do you
load the retrieved file in a browser? (If so, which browser?)

A: I can do either one.

Q: Finally, is it free software, or something that you'd be willing to
release?

A: I did not write it, but our sysadmins say it is kludgy.

Original entry: <http://waxy.org/2008/01/personal_ads_of/>

------
wwortiz
I suggest reading some of the other responses higher up in that thread if you
want to see what RMS thought of openbsd at the time, I say thought as I don't
know if his view has changed.

A quick summary is that RMS does not recommend openbsd because the ports tree
contains links to non-free software and because these links are there openbsd
is recommending non-free software.

Sometimes his ideals seem to just do more harm than good for free software and
even though I do respect that he is so willing to follow his ideals to the
letter he is eccentric enough to hurt a following.

~~~
_delirium
The thread doesn't actually make me come away seeing anyone in it in
particularly great light. There seems to be a lot of bitter sniping from all
sides, and compared to Jan Stary and Theo de Raadt's thread contributions,
Stallman actually comes out sounding like the calm and reasonable one (in
relative terms).

~~~
astrodust
When you're the pope of open source, you better be a true believer, that much
is for sure. Unfortunately, that does lead to a bit of a contradiction when
you have situations like this. Live free or die, he'd probably say.

I wonder if he eats open source food.

------
JustinSeriously
I love the message that prompted this:

    
    
        http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.misc/134756
    
        I don't understand "send mail to try to find the message the URL refers to".
    
        How do you browse the web?
    

It's like peering into the entrance of the rabbit hole.

------
gokhan
Whenever I read a story on RMS, something he said or done, it's always about
something beyond the comfort level I can imagine.

I wonder if he refuses to drive because of the closed source on-board
computer. I wonder how he feels about the flight control system of the Boeing
when he's flying.

I deeply respect him for his dedication but find him lunaticly extreme in
almost all the cases.

~~~
donaq
He sets an unrealistically high standard that others can fall short of but
still be somewhere good. Not everyone can be a superhero (to borrow Steve
Yegge's description of RMS), but just knowing that they exist can inspire
ordinary people to behave better. Free software is not as important to me as
it is to RMS, but it would be even less important if I didn't find him
inspiring.

------
maw
If you frequently travel to places where connectivity is spotty or expensive,
or if you're under heavy time constraints, doing that sort of thing is far
from unreasonable. In fact, if you're travelling often, regardless of what the
connectivity's like at your destinations, it's probably a good way to get some
use out of time in planes.

------
pronoiac
If you follow his lead, you could have your own personal Wayback Machine, as
indexed & searchable as you want.

 _That_ strikes me as somewhat nifty.

------
ZeroGravitas
Sounds like Instapaper.

~~~
hvs
Agreed, although it would make online shopping a bitch.

------
wicknicks
I often wondered why Linux did not start a UX revolution. I suppose attitudes
like Stallman's is the root cause, where attitude is given to "be-like-
historical-me" rather than "lets-move-towards-the-future-together".

~~~
dmm
You have the source. You have the toolchain. If you want something different
make it or pay someone to make it. Stallman made something that suited him and
was nice enough to share it. Other than criticize the attitudes of others,
what have you done?

------
blumer
I ... I can't tell if he's serious ...

~~~
tjr
I suspect he is. In every email conversation I've had with him since 1998, I
get this auto-reply (or something like it; it has likely morphed somewhat over
the years):

 _I am not on vacation, but I am at the end of a long time delay. I am located
somewhere on Earth, but as far as responding to email is concerned, I appear
to be well outside the solar system.

After your message arrives at gnu.org, I will collect it in my next batch of
incoming mail, some time within the following 24 hours. I will spend much of
the following day reading that batch of mail and will come across your message
at some point. If I can write a response for it immediately, the response will
go out in the next outgoing batch--typically around 24 hours after I collected
your message, but occasionally sooner or later than that. As a result, you
should expect a minimum delay of between 24 and 48 hours in seeing any
response to your mail to me.

If you are having a conversation with me, please keep in mind that each
message you receive from me is probably a response to the mail you sent 24 to
48 hours earlier, and any subsequent mail you sent has not yet been seen by
me._

~~~
zephjc
Might as well just write by post

~~~
tomhogans
Not feasible. The software used in the mail sorting machines is not open
source.

~~~
w1ntermute
Neither is a lot of the software used by the network hardware of the
internet's backbone, but that hasn't stopped RMS from using the internet.

------
franck
The Internet and the Web are not synonymous. I'm surprised that this title
doesn't seem to bother anyone on a site like HN.

------
sliverstorm
I hate to imagine what it'd be like to browse a forum like that. Of course, I
imagine RMS doesn't browse any forums.

It seems Craigslist is an example of about the most browsing you could really
do, as it's only ever 1 link deep (if you form your own search URL's). Only
problem there is time is always a factor on Craigslist. Well, that and
Craigslist probably isn't open source. (I don't know the man very well. Would
he refuse to use something like Craigslist if the code is private?)

~~~
jacquesm
Craigslist is interesting because it functions in spite of the fact that it is
technologically unsophisticated. I can't imagine that there would be earth
shattering trade secrets in it.

------
scscsc
I do not think it's a matter of connection speed. This way of "browsing" is
not "browsing" -- you're just getting what you want. It's really about
efficiency (in the sense of not wasting _your_ time).

------
rokhayakebe
On a couple of occasions I surfed a site from my gmail account. Very
nice/different experience. I am not sure how this happened. I tried to do it
again but it wouldn't work. I would love it if I could browse HN from my email
just as I do on the site itself.

------
againstyou
this is a good example of productivity

probably this is the reason that he is going to release GNU HURD soon!
<http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html> (this is a joke guys, he is going
to release HURD soon since 1990)

------
joubert
that's just crazy

~~~
jcl
No crazier than Donald Knuth: <http://www-cs-
faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html>

Or all the people who self-impose IP blocks against popular timewasting sites.
Or people who have "noprocrast" enabled on HN.

We are not logical creatures, but we cope.

~~~
dimitar
DK: "Email is a wonderful thing for people whose role in life is to be on top
of things."

Most of the time I like to be on top of things and I use email, IM, the web.
Its not a distraction, because it is important for me to see whats happening
around me.

So, horses for courses :-)

------
papachito
Stallman travels a lot, South America, Asia and in these conditions the only
way to get internet is to go to a net cafe where they only run windows XP full
of virus with IE6. It is a really slow, frustrating and annoying experience,
believe me. More than once I wished I had exactly that, a daemon that would
download all my stuff so I could get them on my laptop and get the hell out of
those net cafe asap. So yes, what Stallman is doing here is not political,
it's actually a great, useful hack that unfortunately always gets quoted out
of context. It's actually the best way to surf the web when you're travelling
in those countries.

~~~
Shorel
Three years ago, sure.

But now he can get one of those 3G USB modems and change the simcard in each
country.

I don't think he is hacking the network or whatever. He is hacking his time,
and his attention, and that's more like meta-thinking.

~~~
papachito
RMS doesn't use cellphones 3G/GSM for privacy reasons.

~~~
AngryParsley
If that's the case, can't he use a 3G card but just send all his data over a
VPN/ssh tunnel/ssl proxy/whatever?

~~~
kragen
No, that doesn't help.

~~~
AngryParsley
Why not? With a VPN, anyone capturing data on the wire would see encrypted
traffic to a single server owned by RMS or someone he trusts.

~~~
tjr
I believe that the issue is that he doesn't want the network service provider
to know where he is.

------
dnsworks
Reading the title alone was enough to expect a bit of paranoid schizophrenia
to pop through.

~~~
dnsworks
Over the past 12 hours I've watched the rating on this comment go from 0 to -2
to +3 back to -1 Apparently we're divided on how we view Mr. Stallman.

------
hackermom
Poor man.

------
unclebob
To each their own, I guess.

------
Shorel
However, that method is not getting him lots of girlfriends.

------
Mathnerd314
And I submit this months ago... clearly, title is everything.

~~~
miri
Not sure if it is a contributing factor, but it was also posted on Reddit a
day ago. But title probably helps if you want to catch eyes :)

------
ComputerGuru
RMS doesn't browse the internet. He has his own version of the internet that's
made up of sites that give the user complete rights to fork, reuse, recycle,
or modify the product without any previous permission. Anything else is
illegal, a scourge to tech, and must die.

(I'm willing to "spend the karma points" on this one)

~~~
alnayyir
This isn't Reddit, nobody cares about your vitriol. Take this nonconstructive
commentary elsewhere please.

~~~
KERMIT
Please take your anti-Reddit vitriol elsewhere.

