

Psychological manipulation - what I learned trying to save money on a sandwich - nate
http://blog.inklingmarkets.com/2010/05/psychological-manipulation-what-i.html

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GeneralMaximus
For those interested in social psychology, I recommend _Influence: The
Psychology of Persuation_ by Robert B. Cialdini. The book elicited facepalm
after facepalm after facepalm as I figured out exactly why people behave the
way they do. It even helped me explain my own (often erratic) behavior.

If you're into sales or marketing, you're probably familiar with a large
number of "compliance tactics" Cialdini talks about. But if you're a confused
student like me, you have an eye-opening experience ahead of you.

~~~
AngryParsley
If there was a feature that let people mega-upvote a reply at the cost of some
of their own karma, I would have just used it.

I cannot recommend _Influence_ enough. It does a great job of explaining
persuasive techniques and mentions some ways to defend against them.

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grellas
The discussion about ordering a sandwich reminded me of the exchange in _Five
Easy Pieces_ (1972) between Jack Nicholson and the waitress who would not
allow him to deviate from the choices on the menu.

He basically wanted a side of wheat toast but this did not come with the menu
item he wanted.

Jack: "What do you mean you don't make side orders of toast? You make
sandwiches, don't you?"

Waitress: "Would you like to talk to the manager?"

Jack: "You've got bread and a toaster of some kind?"

Waitress: "I don't make the rules."

Jack: "OK, I'll make it as easy for you as I can. I'd like an omelette, plain,
and a chicken salad sandwich on wheat toast, no mayonnaise, no butter, no
lettuce. And a cup of coffee."

Waitress: "A number two, chicken sal san, hold the butter, the lettuce and the
mayonnaise. And a cup of coffee. Anything else?"

Jack: "Yeah. Now all you have to do is hold the chicken, bring me the toast,
give me a check for the chicken salad sandwich, and you haven't broken any
rules."

Waitress: "You want me to hold the chicken, huh?"

Jack: "I want you to hold it between your knees."

The whole exchange is found here:
<http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Five_Easy_Pieces>.

~~~
atarashi
Here's a clip of that exchange: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wtfNE4z6a8>

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boredguy8
There's a McDonald's near where I work that charges for some condiments
(barbecue sauce, for instance) if you didn't order specific food items. If you
ask for the condiment at the time of order, they almost always charge you. If
you ask at the time of pickup and you paid with a card, they rarely do. If you
ask at the time of pickup and you paid with cash, it's about 50/50. I think
they're more likely to ask when you pay with cash because it's less hassle for
them compared to charging the card a second time.

~~~
nostromo
Plus, if you run a card for that small of an amount, you're actually losing
money.

~~~
ryanelkins
Actually credit card purchases are usually batched and sent out at the end of
the day, so they could edit the charge to the customer without incurring any
additional charges to their own merchant account.

~~~
reitzensteinm
Is that really the case? There has to be some kind of a transaction going on,
since the card can get declined with insufficient funds. Do they check whether
a transaction can proceed when you pay, and only then actually process the
transaction at night?

~~~
codyrobbins
Yeah, you can run an authorization transaction which only checks for
sufficient funds. It's what happens in a restaurant when you pay with a credit
card, get a receipt to sign, but can then add a tip to the total: a pre-auth
is done on the card when you give it to them initially, for the amount of the
bill plus some standard percentage, and the charge is actually run once they
have your signature and know the amount of the tip.

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nate
For the folks thinking about the "they just don't want the hassle of changing
the order"/cash versus credit card thing, I could have also shared a very
similar example at Chipotle. Same girl, Stephanie, wanted a burrito bowl, but
wanted the onions and peppers added on top. Back then (not sure they still do
this) they always said, "that's a fajita burrito without the tortilla" and
instead of the $5 for the "bowl" she'd have to pay $7.

So I reminded her about the sub place. The next time she went to chipotle she
ordered the bowl, and then waited as they were making the thing and while it
was in the middle of the line, this time she would ask as an afterthought can
they add peppers and onions, and they never again raised the $7 versus $5
argument.

And if you know Chipotle, you pay AFTER your order is complete, so they could
have easily charged her extra without any hassle. But I believe just like the
ice cream example, since they already started making a bowl, they had it in
there head that they were committed to making the $5 bowl.

~~~
quellhorst
I think you mean a veggie bowl? According to their online ordering app,
peppers & onions are included. They charge extra for meat, but that wouldn't
be a veggie bowl.

~~~
nate
Yes, it was for a veggie bowl. But i didn't bring the example up originally
because I think the veggie bowl changed. This example was about 6 years ago
when I believe those peppers and onions weren't included with the veggie bowl.

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ck2
That is NOT why modifying your order-in-progress works.

It works because they would rather modify why you just ordered, rather than
you canceling your order entirely.

It works the same way in the supermarket when I use a coupon that is one day
past the expire date or not quite exactly the same item, etc. They don't have
to take the coupon but they realize they CAN take it and if they don't, I will
likely not buy the product in the first place.

If you ask them ahead of time, before you even get the item, they can
circumvent you hassling them. Afterwards, it's easier to just give into you.

~~~
ellimist
I'm wondering, how does that work from the store's end? Would they still be
able to get the coupon amount back from the manufacturer even though the
transaction was made past the expiration date? Do manufacturers even check
that?

~~~
ck2
The store has two weeks to submit the coupons to their clearinghouse. They
also make (a small amount) of money on the coupon vs. you paying in cash
(unless they do doubling where they lose).

Technically they are not supposed to accept a coupon that expired 24 or 48
hours ago. But if you ask in the middle of checkout, you'd be surprised where
3 out of 4 times they will say no problem (if you have a decent cashier).

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staunch
We need a word for this technique where you get a customer to _up_ their
purchase by _sell_ ing them on additional things.

~~~
migpwr
Isn't that known as an "upsell" or "upselling"? It's what the guys at the
sneaker store do with socks and laces, no?

~~~
tomsaffell
Socks and laces is actually 'cross-selling'. Up-selling is getting the buyer
to buy something more expensive than the thing they are currently
buying/contemplating buying.

------
char
I've noticed this kind of thing at many food establishments, most notably
Jack-in-the-Box. They actually have a system which lets you order any meal
exactly how you want it a-la-carte style, i.e. you can order 1 sourdough bun +
1 grilled chicken patty + 1 slice of cheese, and they charge you JUST for
those items. It's amazing.

However, whenever I ordered a sandwich this way, the employee would almost
always enter my order in as a Number 6, which actually, is a TOTALLY different
sandwich and includes bacon, sauce, etc., none of which I requested. It is
also, not surprisingly, much more expensive. At first I would have a long
dialogue with the employee, explaining that I just wanted those items and that
he could enter them individually into the computer (sometimes a manager would
have to explain how). Eventually I figured out that if I just prefaced my
order with, "I'm ordering these items a-la-carte.", most of the time I get
what I want with little or no confusion.

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paulgb
> This is what GoDaddy does in spades. Love or hate GoDaddy, they are kicking
> ass at it.

For what it's worth, I dropped GoDaddy because I got tired of the upselling.
So while it may work on average, you can't expect to retain every customer.

~~~
abstractbill
I let a domain expire, about two years ago, that I had registered using
GoDaddy. To this day they still email me every couple of weeks telling me this
is my "last chance" to renew it.

------
metamemetics
Obligatory TED talk:
[http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_o...](http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html)

Countries with low organ donation rates are simply countries where the box
isn't checked by default, and in countries with high organ donation rates the
box IS checked by default. Basically the decision of whether or not to donate
your organs is such a complex decision that the majority of people do not
waste the mental resources on it and just go with or justify the default
choice.

edit: if anyone is interested in cognitive biases and heuristics, wiki Daniel
Kahneman. Only psychologist to win a Nobel Prize (was for Economics). Also
heuristic mentioned in the original link is an example of Anchoring &
Adjustment: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_and_adjustment>

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nostromo
Virgin America is king at this. My $300 fare always manages to cost me $500 by
the time I return from my trip. And magically, unlike when I get upsold by
Continental, I don't mind the extra cost at all.

~~~
nate
Ahh yeah. And Apple too. It's just a little prettier than GoDaddy :) After you
configure your $3000 laptop it's do you want this for $25, or how about this
for $50 kind of stuff.

~~~
nostromo
I've probably spent over $200 on Mini DisplayPort Adapters alone.

~~~
harpastum
You might want to check out the mini-displayport -> hdmi adapter from
monoprice[1]. $8.55, and I've been using one without any problems for over a
year.

(disclaimer: not at all affiliated with monoprice.)

[1]
[http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&c...](http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2)

~~~
nostromo
awesome, thanks!

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euccastro
So, I guess I am the only jerk who, after losing all hope to get the fair
price, would just order the special, then pick out the meaty parts in front of
them and politely ask for the garbage bin?

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dejb
The vege sub is a ripoff.

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AGorilla
When a sandwich/ice cream/big mac artist concedes to this, its most likely
because they've already rung you up and don't want to go through the hassle of
canceling the order and then re-inputting it correctly.

I don't get the logical leap from vendor to customer here. Impulse purchases
are not exactly the same as an underpaid worker not wanting to have to deal
with a hassle. It's still a valid technique for getting what you want, but not
directly applicable when you are the seller.

