

Is it possible to design a better stop sign?  - cwan
http://www.slate.com/id/2254863

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lutorm
The better stop sign would be no stop sign.

The preponderance of stop signs on US roads is one of the most infuriating
parts about American road engineering. (Along with such a large number of
signs that it is not humanly possible to process them all when traveling at
vehicle speeds.)

It really does condition drivers to look for signs instead of other people. If
you run a stop sign, you'll get fined even if nothing happens. If you stop at
a stop sign and then in blissful ignorance ram someone who didn't, no harm
comes to you (unlike to the other person).

The book "Traffic" by Tom Vanderbilt is an interesting read about some
counterintuitive things about how traffic works and about how differently
engineers in different countries approach safety. I can highly recommend it.

EDIT: One of the most fascinating stories in the book is about how they
redesigned some big 5-way intersection with a traffic light in some central
square of a Dutch city by just removing everything and leaving a big empty
square with some lines painted indicating the roundabout. Crashes went down,
and traffic flow improved, because drivers were _forced_ to pay attention to
figure out how the whole thing worked.

Experience seems to indicate that the "safety" measures usually taken in the
US (widening roads, removing pedestrians, etc) are totally counterproductive
because they send subconscious signals to the drivers that this is a speedway
which causes everyone to drive faster and pay less attention, which makes
crashes more severe (not to mention relegates pedestrians, bicycles and other
alternative means of transport to second-hand status.)

~~~
thrdOriginal
Completely anecdotal: a friend of mine moved here (US) from Germany ~ 5 weeks
ago, and she was driving my car with me in the passenger seat. Just as I was
thinking "she is a safe defensive driver," she approached a stop sign and to
my shock did not stop, but slowed down only to continue on her way much like a
yield sign. I freaked out a little in the vein of "Stop signs here are not
suggestions!" She responded with points simiar to yours (and the articles'):
there are way too many stop signs in the US, it is the most expensive part of
driving (fuel-wise), and it essentially teaches people not to be thoughtful,
cautious drivers. Now while driving I'm constantly thinking "what a wasteful
stop sign."

~~~
83457
I stop at signs because of people like her.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
And she stops on green lights because of people like her.

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lukev
When I drive I look as much for shape and color as the actual words.

To sell me on the idea of a new stop sign, you'd have to demonstrate that not
only was the new design objectively better, but it is objectively better by a
large enough margin to offset all the _additional_ errors caused by drivers
who aren't trained to look for a different design.

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lincolnq
Wow, I didn't know that roundabouts are more efficient than other intersection
types. That's really cool. (Now I want to build a traffic simulator that can
simulate that effect...)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Hm. We have one in town - 3 roads, 2 lanes, one of which doesn't go all the
way around. A "map" posted 100 yards in front listing all the options. I've
seen people stop to look at the map before going on. This is not more
efficient.

~~~
nitrogen
Take down the map and it probably would be. We had an intersection in my city
with three roads/six entrances. Originally it was a 6-way stop, but it had
very poor visibility and there were numerous accidents. Now, it's a
roundabout, and traffic flows much more smoothly (I've never seen more than
three cars waiting to enter, and it usually takes about 5-10 seconds per car).
Multi-lane roundabouts are probably more confusing than single-lane, as well,
but if the street is primarily traveled by locals, give them some time to
learn it and speed should pick back up.

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btilly
I'm curious. Stop signs are red. A lot of the environment around them is
green. And about 10% of men have difficulty telling red from green.

Would a different color work better?

~~~
ubernostrum
_And about 10% of men have difficulty telling red from green._

No.

"Red-green colorblindness" is an inaccurate and misleading name; "green
weakness" is a better description, and is what every doctor I've talked to
uses as a casual name for the condition.

The best explanation I know of is to imagine the following: you're looking at
a screen onto which is projected a square of pure red. Then, gradually, green
is added, which will eventually cause the square to appear yellow (yes, red
and green make yellow). When a person with "normal" color vision sees it as
yellow, a person with the common forms of green weakness would still see it as
a bit orange-ish.

In other words, the common form of "red-green colorblindness" doesn't cause a
red sign to look green, or a green light to look red, or grass to look red, or
any of that stuff. It mostly causes problems in the yellow part of the
spectrum (one reason why I tend to avoid earth tones).

~~~
BoppreH
It might have been a different condition, but I could swear I saw a page of a
guy who made a side by side comparison of images that for him looked the same.

I clearly remember two pictures, one depicting very bright red berries on a
bush and other with the berries colored green, almost invisible now.

~~~
zephyrfalcon
Maybe this page: <http://critiquewall.com/2007/12/10/blindness>

~~~
BoppreH
Exactly that one. Thanks.

So, is that a different condition?

~~~
zephyrfalcon
Hmm. I'm not sure. I am R/G colorblind myself, and I don't confuse red and
green traffic lights; they look completely different to me. On the other hand,
some devices use LEDs that can be red or green (like the Nintendo DS; red
means it's time to charge the battery), and I can't tell them apart at all.

Also, for what it's worth, on my MacBook the images in the aforementioned blog
post look almost the same to me. But I looked at them on a different computer
as well, a netbook where I tweaked the color settings, and there they don't
look the same at all. (I still can't pass the Ishihara test on that one
though... :-)

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JoeAltmaier
Keep designing and we'll end up in a hole. Look at brake lights. First just
two little lights. Then big, reflective lights. Then another light in the rear
window. Then one on the mirror. Soon every car will look like the Vegas strip.
Why all this inflation? Because we get lazy the more obvious the light
becomes? How about one tiny bulb, that you have to really strain to see.
Cheaper, keep us all "in the drivers seat" instead of making our way to work
in a zombie state.

~~~
potatolicious
The big, reflective lights are there partially due to the fact that we're
using LEDs for brake lights instead of bulbs. The advantage here is that LEDs
respond _much_ faster than bulbs, which have a significant delay between power
applied vs. light generated.

