
Ask HN: In what countries can you legally get a long term teleworking visa? - empath75
My current job allows me to telework &quot;from anywhere&quot; (we have employees in several countries in Europe, as well as in asia and the middle east), but it seems like it&#x27;s impossible to get info on whether it&#x27;s legal to move to a country while teleworking with a company in the US.  Is there a list of which countries allow this somewhere?
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jpatokal
If you're a citizen of a Svalbard Treaty signatory (including the US), the
answer is... Svalbard!

[http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/45092/where-
can-i-...](http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/45092/where-can-i-travel-
for-prolonged-periods-of-time-while-legally-working-remotely/45131#45131)

~~~
mkj
It's even got a line to it on [http://cablemap.info/](http://cablemap.info/) !

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mark-ruwt
A pair of friends just moved to Paris to do just this. They had to travel to a
French Embassy (Houston was closest) and prove they had a States-based job,
and that they were financially secure. They're allowed to stay for one year,
and then have the opportunity to re-up for one more.

I don't know of a master list, unfortunately.

~~~
hartator
I don't think you are allowed to work if it's a tourist visa. It might be not
enforced, but teleworking is still working.

~~~
kijin
There's a big difference between teleworking for a French company (i.e. taking
a French job) and teleworking for an American company while staying in France.

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percept
It's all about the visa, and a lot of folks don't understand that working
under the tourist variety is usually verboten.

Perhaps begin with countries in which you're interested in living and working,
and see what sort they offer...

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tzs
Out of curiosity, do countries usually prohibit all work on a tourist visa, or
is there some minimal amount allowed? For instance, suppose in the middle of a
two week vacation you want to participate in a conference call with the office
back home to resolve a business issue, or perhaps you want to respond to work
email for a half hour each evening, or something like that.

~~~
gbog
If you're seriously asking, you're misunderstanding the purpose of this law
and of the legal system in general.

This rule is there to avoid foreigner to renew indefinitely their tourist visa
while they're actually working for good. It's not there to prevent anyone
checking emails.

On a wider scale, laws are defined to give a real world shape to the general
principles. If you understand the principles, you can usually avoid being
scared by the laws. If you deeply agree with the right of ownership, you
shouldn't need a lawyer to know what to do with the fallen leaves of your
neighbors tree that are in your garden.

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davismwfl
If I understand, you work for a US company remotely and are curious about
moving to a new country that is not the US (regardless of where you live
today). I am by no means an expert, but if you are permanently relocating I
believe most Countries will require you to prove you have sufficient stable
income (or wealth) to make reasonably certain you will not become a burden or
nuisance. Depending on your current citizenship the requirements will vary,
e.g. a UK citizen going to the US or Canada or vice versa is totally different
then other Countries.

If it was me, I'd consult an immigration expert for the Countries I was
thinking about going to, mostly because the requirements seem to have multiple
ways they could be interpreted. I do have a few friends that do this, and each
time they have told me they talk to immigration experts to figure it all out
(generally an attorney). One has done it all himself from what I understand
just by doing all the research etc, but that seems quite hard and potentially
error prone.

~~~
gokhan
So, you don't actually have an answer.

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charlesdm
This is highly dependent on your nationality. For example, if you're an EU
citizen, you can work from wherever in the EU due to free movement of people
laws.

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pault
Teleworking is a bit of a gray area, but Belize allows you to stay
indefinitely on a tourist visa. I've been living here for just under 4 years
now. My email is in my profile if you have any questions.

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nfriedly
I read this and then looked up the cost of living in Belize vs my nearest city
in Ohio... and Ohio is cheaper! Just made me laugh :)

[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+Belize+...](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cost+of+living+Belize+vs+dayton+oh)

~~~
pault
The islands are definitely closer to Caribbean cost of living than Central
American cost of living, but a single number is always going to be an
oversimplification. You can live a quite comfortable gringo lifestyle here
(condo on the beach, going out for meals and drinks 4-5 times per week) for
less than $3,000 USD/mo. And you don't get the same view in Ohio. [1] There
generally isn't a language barrier (former British colony), and the weather is
80 degrees and sunny all year round. If you live on the mainland it's half as
expensive, but there's no beach. My advice is to fly down and check it out!
It's only 2 hours from Miami or Houston, and you can fly to Guatemala for $200
if you want to meet the neighbors. :)

[1]
[http://ambergriscaye.com/images/slides/weather1.jpg](http://ambergriscaye.com/images/slides/weather1.jpg)

~~~
nfriedly
Yea, I'm sure you're right. I have some friends who spent time in Belize and
they loved it. I'd definitely like to go visit some day.

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bugshideout
As far as I know, in Croatia you can stay as long as you want if you can prove
you make at least 4000 EUR/month. In Brazil you can stay as long as you want
as well if you invest about 25.000 USD in your own Brazilian company. That
does mean paying 25.000 USD, but opening a company and putting that amount in
it's bank account. You can always close the company an take you money with you
afterwards.

The thing about tourist visa is about working in the country. That means
"stealing" a job from a citizen of a country.

Nobody cares if a person during his/her holidays answer emails from his/her
job in his/her native country.

From another perspective, even if there is not law saying so, for the guest
country it's nice to have telecommuters. They spend money on the country, they
(probably) won't use the health system (an maybe must have their own private
health insurance), and they don't "consume" any of the country's jobs.

But the best part about having a telecommute job is country hopping. A big
plus of switching countries at least every 179 days is that unless you are
from the US or Eritrea, don't have to pay income taxes nowhere.

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thecupisblue
>A big plus of switching countries at least every 179 days is that unless you
are from the US or Eritrea, don't have to pay income taxes nowhere.

Was just discussing this, is it really possible? We're in Croatia and for
example if we start to move to surrounding countries, how would we manage it?
Would we need to go to the gov office and say "we're moving", travel away
across the border to slovenia, say "we're moving here" and repeat that process
all the time?

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gregjor
Short answer, almost no country allows working unless you have a work permit.
People working remotely are usually on a tourist visa or maybe a retirement or
marriage visa. Available visas and enforcement vary by country. Sitting in a
hotel room or apartment or coffee shop working is not likely to attract
attention from immigration authorities, the laws are to prevent foreigners
taking jobs from locals. Keep your business to yourself and don't blab to
everyone that you are doing online work, no one will know.

I've heard from a few people who have had their papers and laptop examined at
immigration for evidence that they are working but this seems to be rare. The
reports I heard were Canada, UK, and Thailand. The more computer stuff you
cart around the more suspicious it might look. Everyone travels with a laptop
these days. Keep your work stuff in the cloud, look like another tourist
posting to Facebook, you'll be fine.

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wprapido
argentina, costa rica, peru, paraguay, mexico, malaysia, spain, austria and
germany issue visas even if you don't have a local job

i'll be happy to answer more questions about argentina, paraguay and spain

~~~
zod50
I'd be interested in knowing more about Argentina, and Spain. How does one go
about getting a permanent visa? Should I be well versed with Spanish?

~~~
codecamper
spanish non lucrative visa (was a thing, not sure if it still is)

~~~
wprapido
yes non lucrative visa in spain and rentista in argentina

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eru
A friend of mine has set up a simple company in Hong Kong to invoice his
remote working for an American employer. He is living in Japan and has a
Polish passport.

It seems the Japanese authorities don't really seem to care. But I don't know
how kosher the whole arrangement is.

In any case, Singapore and Hong Kong are worth a look. They are very business-
friendly, and you can probably make something work there even legally so. (And
even if you had to leave Singapore every three months, that wouldn't be too
much of a problem.)

~~~
lokedhs
I moved to Singapore a decade ago, and I can definitely recommend it.

If you'd like to try this, all the relevant visa information is available from
the Singapore Ministry of Manpower: [http://www.mom.gov.sg/passes-and-
permits](http://www.mom.gov.sg/passes-and-permits)

I think the OP could possibly be able to get the EntrePass, if he sets up a
local company in Singapore and makes sure his work is billed to it. Singapore
corporate taxes are probably lower than where he's from, so it would likely be
better to do that anyway.

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CyberDildonics
He is talking about moving but still working in the US, Singapore's taxes have
nothing to do with it.

~~~
lokedhs
It does. If you live and work in a country (even if it's for a foreign
company) you can be sure that country wants you to pay taxes.

That said, Singapore taxes are very low, so it's likely a much better deal
than paying the taxes in your home country (unless you're a US citizen, in
which case everything becomes a lot more complicated, to the point where many
banks in most countries won't even give you an account).

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rtpg
Isn't the thing to do is set up a sole proprietorship under your name and
become a contractor for the US company?

At least in Japan I know several people with that sort of arrangement

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dvcrn
In Japan the company has to receive most of it's income sources from within
Japan so unless you are telecommuting for a Japanese company or a Japanese
branch, this should not be ok with the immigration.

~~~
rtpg
Really? My impression was that immigration mainly cares about having a stable
situation, and the gov't generally wants to make sure you're paying taxes. Do
you have a place explaining this in more detail?

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afarrell
If you'd like to live in Prague, This blog explains one path to getting a
freelancer visa in Czechia: [http://www.wandertooth.com/zivnostensky-list-
work-in-prague-...](http://www.wandertooth.com/zivnostensky-list-work-in-
prague-not-eu/)

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rrecuero
Japan recently released this program for highly skilled workers.
[http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/](http://www.immi-
moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/)

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wprapido
if you work remotely staying there short term (up to 6 months), it's not
illegal

~~~
hartator
I think it is actually. It might not enforced, but if you are working in a
country - even fully remotely - you have to abide by local laws and probably
have a work visa.

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eli
You are asking for specific legal advice. You really really should talk to a
lawyer (and maybe a tax accountant) and not the internet. Many lawyers offer
free consultations.

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GavinMcG
Oh, come on. He's asking for a list of places that have a program for this
sort of thing. He's hardly asking for "specific legal advice".

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deskamess
If you can tele-work from country A then I see no reason you cannot work from
country B unless it is subject to US export control restrictions and your job
deals with such matters. You/your lawyer may also want to look at any
tax/banking/financial restrictions that the US may have placed on country B as
it could affect salary reaching your account. Even more so if you are a US
citizen.

~~~
GFK_of_xmaspast
"Failure to imagine existence of laws" is not usually a valid defense.

