
Ask HN: Do coding bootcamps mostly teach JavaScript? - codegeek
I run a bootstrapped SAAS company and lately have been interviewing developers who are entry level. Getting quite a few bootcampers which I don&#x27;t mind but almost none of them have any experience with a backend server side language like PHP, Python etc that are still widely used in real world. I see quite a few of them hitting the whole MEAN stack thing keeping everything in Javascript. This is troubling because it seems like most bootcamps are looking to make a quick buck keeping everything in Javascript and students are oblivious to what actually happens in real world.<p>I have talked to a few and they had no idea that there is anything else other than React and Node and they are hoping to get a job quickly. Am I crazy or what ?
======
codezero
A bunch of my current company’s backend is in JS on node. I’m not sure it’s so
bad.

I’ve had a different experience that most didn’t know much programming, but
understood some typical webapp patterns.

If more bootcampers came out with a solid understanding of programming
principles and software engineering basics, the language they knew wouldn’t
matter as much.

Edit: I’ll also add that yes, they probably are looking for a job quickly, and
that should be OK. Many bootcampers are trying to improve their lives by
making a drastic change in their career. I think bootcamps set students’
expectations too high. They apply for as many jobs as they can without really
knowing if they are a good fit. Often they’re not but there is some company
out there that needs a jr web dev who would love to help them develop their
skills and career. It’s just probably a bad idea to go for early and mid stage
startups.

~~~
codegeek
You have made some good points. I agree that it is not about the language but
more about the programming principles and understanding. I guess I am not
seeing that enough from bootcamp graduates. It seems more like a problem with
bootcamps than the students themselves.

~~~
codezero
Yep, I completely agree. I think that a lot of the folks coming out of the
bootcamps will be fine in a dev job somewhere, just not at at a high growth
startup with a lot of university trained software engineers. It's really
disappointing that bootcamps aren't doing more to help funnel their graduates
into the best roles for their skillsets.

------
DBinCLE
Curriculum varies by the bootcamp. The best ones design and iterate their
curriculums based on feedback from the local job market, as they know they
won't be in business long if they're not putting forward qualified candidates.

Also, a willingness to mentor is important when hiring any entry level
developer. Bootcampers can require different mentoring, but in my experience
so far they're not wholly worse off than a CS grad with no life experience to
lean on. Focus on the fit of the person, first.

To be fair, I am biased - I completed a bootcamp 3 years ago after 15 years in
hardware/networking. Bootcamp tought me the fundmentals of OOO using the
.NET/C# stack. Focus on JS technology was much lighter. I joined a backend ETL
& Data API team with high coding standards and high empathy for mentoring. I
now pass that training and mentality onto others - mostly CS grads.

------
django77
> students are oblivious to what actually happens in real world.

Is Node not happening in the real world? Most job ads I see look for node, far
more than python or php, so it makes perfect sense for bootcamps to teach
that, not to mention keeping everything in one language.

~~~
nawarian
I believe this question is not quite accurate. Node is happening in the real
world, yes. But often companies with a couple of years in the market would
have a different stack that isn't that hyped like JavaScript stuff.

They require actual programming skills, not programming language skills. And
this I think is the most important part. I'm just not sure if we could ask
this from Bootcampers, since their learning process is just sufficient to spit
them out to the market.

------
nawarian
From what I understand it is simply not useful to expect Bootcampers to have
such knowledge. These courses are made to spit people out to the easiest part
of the market: start ups and other (small) businesses willing to pay little
and receive a lot.

Learning PHP, Python or Java for back-end development is ineffective for
Bootcamp courses and bootcampers. They require you to understand programming
instead of programming languages, for a quick and functional delivery.

IMHO: It is the role of such companies hiring these people to actually teach
them how the "real world" looks like and shape them accordingly.

------
vira28
Actually, I am planning to start a service similar to Bootcamp which focuses
purely on Python. I have picked Python after a lot of consideration.

------
PaulHoule
If you were going to teach people one language today that is commercially
useful it probably would be Javascript.

People who are leaning toward scientific or data analysis stuff might do
Python.

Languages with a more static type system or that require OO design to do
anything add a whole new bunch of skills to be learned. That goes double for
real systems languages like C/C++/Rust.

------
jdauriemma
Most recent bootcamp grads I've encountered were taught basic Ruby on Rails
with a small amount of JavaScript (usually some React as well), HTML, and CSS.

