
Ask HN: Is it poor form to clone a startup with little to no competitors? - duplicater
If you find a startup that seems to have little competition and you feel capable and inspired, does it make sense to create your own version?<p>There are many assumptions here, but I think we can start with the broad question.<p>&gt; Assume that the startup to be duplicated has validation - via funding or discernible growth&#x2F;activity.<p>&gt; Assume that the startup is in a growing&#x2F;nascent&#x2F;not-well-
served space&#x2F;industry.<p>&gt; Assume you are technically capable of creating a clone in X amount time, where X is &lt; 1 year (or with help, even less).<p>&gt; Assume the startup is primarily providing a connecting service for groups with different interests, like Meetup (admins organize groups).
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freerobby
Second Mover Advantage is a well-documented business strategy. Many companies
will specifically look for such opportunities rather than try to be the
innovator. See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-
mover_advantage#Second-m...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-
mover_advantage#Second-mover_advantage)

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davidgh
Since you already know what you are going to build (the existing business is
the model) I would spend a fair amount of effort thinking about how you are
going to take it to market. Assume you already built it - what are you going
to do tomorrow morning to get it out there? If the answer to that question is
not clear - spend a lot of time until it is.

Posting to HN and Product Hunt most likely won’t cut it, especially if a
clone.

Cloning an existing business seems a lot more interesting if you have some
unique method or access to penetrate the market where the current business is
falling short.

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duplicater
That is a great idea - going through the exercise of imagining if you were
leading a company like the one you are cloning. Can you devise an effective
GTM strategy that perhaps could scale more quickly (or convince yourself of
that ;))?

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delton137
Cloning seems pointless to me - they will be ahead of you time-wise. You need
to have a good case you can do it better, then it makes sense. Just be
prepared to be called a knock-off. Differentiation is normally what people do
even if its pseudo differentiation.

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duplicater
Completely agree, in cloning the company one would add his/her own
interpretations and approaches to problems and features just by implementing
as a engineer who is not at the cloned company. The twist is the
differentiation that one intuitively feels exists or can be created that makes
the pursuit of cloning that much more meaningful and perhaps effective. (just
re-posting this comment as it applies to yours).

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top256
I started a company doing email delivery 2 years before Sendgrid. Sendgrid
appeared and raised tons of funding (we were based in France so it was not
possible to raise money at that time).

I got really really scared. Fast forward, 2 years after:

\- product becomes cheaper \- product becomes more reliable \- we were making
tons of money \- we had more customers

I studied microeconomic a little bit after this and this is exactly what they
predict.

TL;DR; it's probably poor form but all participants of your market will be
better out of it.

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duplicater
Definitely, there appears to be market validation. How big is that market?
Perhaps big enough for one more...

And congrats on your venture!

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Mz
Whatever you do, it will end up having your stamp on it. There will be ways in
which this product is different from the product that inspired it. This may
not be obvious to you, especially at first, because your perception or mental
model of the problem space will both influence your concept of what they are
doing and create those differences.

The only way to know if it is a difference that makes a difference is to have
a go at it.

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muzani
Why not? It's like someone opening a grocery store a few blocks away from a
Walmart. Let the customers decide.

They already have a head start in terms of both loyalty and grabbing the easy
market, so it's not immoral.

I would actually look for much less time. Maybe about 3 months to clone. If
you can't go that fast, you could try resegmenting that market and focusing on
something smaller.

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matchmike1313
I think it does sometimes. Right out of the gate I feel more optimistic about
you as a developer / founder to clone it as you claim to have "inspiration"
for the market. I think clones that come from a place of passion and
inspiration for the market. Also, if there is little competition the market
still has room for additional players and I assume is not overly saturated
yet. Some competition could actually be good for the businesses in the space.
I would say yes overall. Before I would clone the product though, I would try
your best to search social media, forums, etc, and find any complaints or
wants for the current products serving the market and try to at least one-up
on some level the existing solutions, both in terms of features, but also in
design and marketing.

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toomuchtodo
Forget poor form. If you can be profitable, go for it.

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RepressedEmu
Instead of a direct clone you should try to find your own "twist" on the idea.
That way you can still get buzz and be seen as a competitor and not just a
knock-off. Finding a good twist is the hard part though. Also, remember that
"good artists copy and great artists steal"

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duplicater
Completely agree, in cloning the company one would add his/her own
interpretations and approaches to problems and features just by implementing
as a engineer who is not at the cloned company. The twist is the
differentiation that one intuitively feels exists or can be created that makes
the pursuit of cloning that much more meaningful and perhaps effective.

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Nomentatus
Is your name Zuckerberg? Cause if it is, it's a bit late to ask now, wouldn't
you say?

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duplicater
OK. Not Z, but good anecdote. What are some other good ones?

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Nomentatus
If you're confident that you can call on so much expertise that the quality of
their execution hardly matters, go for it - but it's traditional to wait a bit
to see if that potential competitor stumbles or misses out on a market.

I'd also be wary if there's any network effect that could favor them (unless
you've got bags of money.) Also factor in the chances that a really large
competitor will also decide to be competition if the sauce isn't that special
but the service is very useful and complements what the big guys are already
doing - although this could work in your favor if you're cool being an acqui-
hire.

As for ethics, everyone understands it's a competitive market (at the bottom);
but bystanders might wonder about your judgement for a while: "me-too"
companies often fail, since those who lack the acumen to find their own idea
often have little else in their quiver, and so fail to add the innovative
improvements that are needed along the way in order to create a truly viable
product.

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mapster
Measure the market. If there is bleed and you can market/reach paying
customers/convert etc., go after them, assuming costs to ROI math works out
and you aren't over leveraged in case of loss.

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dragonwriter
If you have no plan to offer something distinct that gives you a moat, you are
just commoditizing what the existing firm is offering, which drives out both
your and their profit opportunity.

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subpixel
It's not the cloning part that you should worry about, but the acquiring
customers part. How will you communicate your service to their customers, and
to new ones?

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duplicater
Good idea - similar to this reply -
[https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=15488168](https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=15488168)

Creating a GTM strategy and establishing your competitive edge are crucial. It
may be interesting and work to improve even the original service. If the
cloned company has little competition, perhaps they may not be thinking as
much about the influence of competition.

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codeonfire
poor form old chap...

Nobody cares about form. I heard on a podcast that Ring has 100+ copycat
competitors. If anything, no competitors might be a warning sign.

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NumberCruncher
Rocket Internet answered this question already.

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romanovcode
It's slightly different tho because they clone startups from U.S. and bring
them to EU.

I don't think they would have success using same method if they were just U.S.
based.

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cujic9
If they are executing well, then I think it's poor form and foolish to clone
them. Think about joining them instead. You will all be better off.

If they are not executing well, then business is business. Sooner or later
someone will clone them, may as well be you.

Also, I firmly believe that every startup idea under the sun has already been
done before. And either it failed due to poor execution or poor timing.

So the loophole is to find the prior art -- the thing that came before them,
and failed -- and clone that instead.

