
Lenovo Launches Ultra-Thin ThinkPad P1: X1 Carbon Meets Workstation - rerx
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13208/lenovo-launches-ultra-thin-thinkpad-p1
======
anc84
I wish a screen was as good at angles like the fake marketing photo suggests:
[https://images.anandtech.com/doci/13208/ThinkPad_P1_Lifestyl...](https://images.anandtech.com/doci/13208/ThinkPad_P1_Lifestyle_Image_Engineering.jpg)

Images like that have no place in a journalistic article in my opinion. It
turns it into a full ad.

~~~
hyeomans
Agree, it's a photoshopped stock photo: [https://www.shutterstock.com/image-
photo/confident-serious-a...](https://www.shutterstock.com/image-
photo/confident-serious-attractive-professional-architect-
woman-775058860?irgwc=1&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=TinEye&utm_source=77643&utm_term=)

~~~
nathanaldensr
Wow, that's ridiculous. I love how the original stock photo is of a tablet
(iPad?) and the Photoshopped laptop is in perfect focus, unlike all the
objects around it. If you're going to lie, at least _try_ to do a good job.

~~~
gomox
It's plausible that the computer would be in focus at that location as it is
at the same distance from the camera as the main subject in the picture (and
therefore shares the focus plane).

The transition is too hard though, and the screen illumination is ridiculous.

~~~
cwyers
You can do a lot with a tilt-shift lens and selective focus. Not that they did
that.

~~~
psychometry
The fake tilt-shift thing drives me nuts. Usually seen on instagram photos of
a flat piece of paper.

------
phatboyslim
To add some anecdotal experience here, I replaced my 2015 MBP which I loved,
with a 5th Gen Lenovo X1 Carbon and I can honestly say I have no regrets. The
machine is wonderful for development. Light but powerful, very pleasant to
type on, checks all the right boxes. You can use Linux or Windows (which
honestly has come quite a long ways and works quite well). Also, you can game
with these laptops now thanks to USB-C external graphics enclosures, giving
you a work machine on the go, and a gaming machine at home.

~~~
vlunkr
I also recently left a MBP for a Lenovo T-series laptop. One of my favorite
things is the keyboard. It doesn't compare to a mechanical keyboard or
anything, but it's much nicer than anything Apple offers (Which seem to keep
getting worse)

~~~
m_mueller
exactly the same here, 2012 generation MBP to T480s. Never had such a nice
keyboard, mechanical or not. I actually prefer it over the old T series, it
got exactly the right key travel for me. I also like the case design. Light,
robust and nice to the touch, has good port placement and all the ports I need
without those stupid dongles.

Only problem: Windows 10. I‘m slowly getting there setting it up with WSL to
be nearly as productive as with MacOS, but so far the hardware makes up for
it.

~~~
vlunkr
Ah, I'm running Linux on the T480, and it's great for that. I've had no driver
issues.

------
jpalomaki
The specs sure sound quite interesting. Intel i9 or Xeon, 64GB memory (also
ECC), dual PCIe SSD (up to 4TB), 80Wh battery. 3mm thicker than MacBook Pro,
but bit lighter. And since it is part of Lenovo professional lineup, I assume
you can get the onsite warranty for this, meaning the components can be
actually replaced with normal tools.

Interesting to see the reviews on screen. The display has been usually the
weak point on the more powerful Lenovos, but hopefully this is not the case
here.

~~~
torstenvl
ECC isn't available at 64GB configurations.

    
    
      Memory
      Up to 64GB DDR4 2666MHz
      *Up to 32GB for ECC
    

[https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/Thi...](https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P1/p/22WS2WPP101)

~~~
avhon1
I wonder what the explanation for this is.

~~~
gargravarr
Usually available DIMM sizes, 32GB ECC DIMMs may come along eventually. May
also be a power restriction, since (AFAIK) ECC draws more power, so at some
point the DIMM may hit an upper limit (ECC running on each refresh cycle).

------
awiesenhofer
Redhat certified and available with Ubuntu pre-installed, great! Probably will
get one of these to replace my aging macbook pro.

~~~
smacktoward
This is the bit that jumped out at me, too. I would love to see Lenovo start
offering preinstalled Linux on ThinkPads large and small.

Interestingly, however, Lenovo’s own info page on the P1
([https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/Thi...](https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-p/ThinkPad-P1/p/22WS2WPP101))
makes no mention of Ubuntu or Red Hat options. It only list the usual flavors
of Windows.

------
yourapostasy
Are there any HN posters who manage fleets of Lenovo ThinkPads who can comment
on their personal QC trend observations? I've read on forums that the QC is
hit-and-miss these days; when you get a good unit, it rocks, but woe be unto
you if you happen to draw a short straw. Every manufacturer drops a lemon now
and again. But I can't tell if Lenovo is letting their definitely-lax QC on
non-ThinkPad lines leak into their ThinkPad lines, or if we're just hearing
especially squeaky wheels.

The recent trend seems to be if you want laptop reliability, you only select
from the business-class product lines of the major OEMs, or Apple.

~~~
bluedino
We have a bunch of T-series from 440 to 480 and 540 to 570, a few W and P
series...they're all problem free except one screen replacement on an
almost-3-year-old W540 (which I think was physical damage)

~~~
lmilcin
I have been using ThinkPads, exclusively, since the year 2000. I never had ANY
failure of any kind of any of my 5 machines.

I currently use T440s which I bought immediately after it became available in
2013 and I wish it broke so I had a pretext to buy a new one, but the sucker
will not die.

I had to hack firmware to get LTE modem to work and the screen probably aged
and is not as bright as it was. Other than that everything works perfectly.

------
bufo
Reminder that Lenovo has been struggling with quality control lately (they're
not the only ones) [https://www.ultrabookreview.com/21014-dr-servicelove-
learned...](https://www.ultrabookreview.com/21014-dr-servicelove-learned-stop-
worrying-love-site-warranty/). It's really frustrating to read glowing
reviews, buy a brand new laptop, and then feel you lost at the lottery. At
least it feels like Macbook related issues get a lot of press so you know
where things stand.

~~~
agumonkey
I wonder if a mobile ATX is possible. Today IC size is so small you can have
mainboard and daughter boards of average dimensions.

The lack of swapping and replacing is also an economical dread because people
feel bad whenever a thing fails.

~~~
chx
You will have an issue with thinness. Even with thin ITX you'd struggle to
build a computer with a decent GPU thinner than say 2". In theory, the Galaxy
"Katana" GTX 1070 makes it not impossible, in practice you'd need to create a
chassis utilizing a PCI Express riser which can house exactly one video card
so it'd be expensive and very niche. Currently the only slim gaming desktop I
am aware of is the MSI Vortex G25 8RD / 8RE at 1.7".

~~~
agumonkey
Personally I don't mind non thin laptops. Thin is tempting but I'm sure a
sturdy easy to fix/upgrade model would overcome the desire for beauty.

~~~
chx
I don't care that much for the current craze with thinness -- but on the other
hand even the slimmest off the shelf part accomodating cases are way beyond
laptop territory, I do not think it could get any smaller than
[https://www.sfflab.com/products/nfc_s4m](https://www.sfflab.com/products/nfc_s4m)
and it's 64mm.

------
JoshTriplett
Impressive specifications, and nice to see a lightweight larger laptop, but
personally I've been hoping for an upgrade to a 4K screen in the X1, not a
laptop that's several inches larger.

I also hope this has the option of a 4K non-touch screen (rather than a choice
of 4K touch or 1080p non-touch), and that it's possible to get the 4K with
integrated graphics.

~~~
zem
yeah, i'm unsure whether i regret having just bought an x1c or not :) on the
whole i think i prefer the 14" form factor.

------
peterwwillis
Lenovo, come on, it's mid-2018. How hard is it to add USB-C charging? Hasn't
it been around for like four years? Do we really need more proprietary
chargers?

~~~
rerx
I believe all the T and X series laptops now come with USB-C charging
(definitely enjoying this on my X1 Yoga Gen 2). One problem with USB power
delivery seems to be an upper limit of 100 Watts -- maybe that's a reason they
don't use it for _this_ machine.

~~~
stephengillie
My Carbon X1 came with a 65W USB-C charger. It can output up to 20V. It
rapidly charges my Pixel 2 as well as the Lenovo.

~~~
rerx
At times I also use the charger that came with my X1 Yoga to charge my Samsung
S9. It works great!

------
appleiigs
Glad the haven’t phased out the USB Type-A, HDMI, SD Card ports. Looks like a
real “pro” machine.

Dell, HP, etc., can’t copy Apple fast enough... including Apple’s blunders.

~~~
4ad
They have phased out real Ethernet port for the mini-Ethernet which requires a
dongle. If they can't put in a real Ethernet I would have preferred an extra
USB port, or something more useful. I can use my own USB->Ethernet dongle, I
don't need the special Lenovo one.

Still, pretty minor complaint. My main complaint is the 16:9 screen. Why is it
that only Apple can put 16:10 screens in laptops...

A 3:2 screen would be better yet. The Microsoft Surface has (had?) a 3:2
screen, but it came with too many tradeoffs to seriously consider it.

~~~
appleiigs
Dropping the ethernet is more reasonable to me given how common wifi is now.
Also, the latop form is expected to be mobile and not tied to the wall.

~~~
lmilcin
There are real reasons to have Ethernet. For one, many companies don't allow
access to their resources over WiFi. I also do large part of my work on remote
VM and lower latency of Ethernet makes it more smooth.

------
colanderman
They left out the most important property of the display: is it matte or
glossy? Can't find it on Lenovo's website either. Anyone know?

~~~
peterwwillis
Aren't all touchscreens glossy and non-touchscreens typically matte?

~~~
limeblack
No. Lenovo actually sells basically a matte touchscreen thinkpad known as anti
glare(much better then the consumer glossy displays). They are fairly uncommon
but do exist in the Thinkpad line. I have used one.

~~~
strmpnk
Typically their non-touch FHD displays are matte (I think that's what the
parent was pointing out). I opted for that in my recent T480 build over the
glossy HiDPI display with the face detection cam. It's definitely very nice
not having sharp reflections on screen.

------
mastry
Why does Lenovo persist with the Quadro GPUs? None of their workstation models
have the option for a GTX 10-series. I recently bought a gaming laptop (not a
gamer) so I could have the GPU power for ML. Surely there's a big enough
market for this to warrant a ThinkPad option by now?

~~~
Rotdhizon
I think it's because lenovo really isn't a brand you buy for gaming. Sure they
have a gaming lineup, but they are more business and production oriented, and
the Quadro cards back that. The Quadro cards aren't bad for gaming per say,
you can still do quite a bit with them. I have a P51 mobile workstation with
what I think is NVIDIA Quadro M2200 4GB GDDR5, and it lets me play anything
I've tried so far without issues. Granted the CPU and GPU get extremely hot on
these things if you so much as think about loading up a game. My internal
temps are constantly between 80-90 degrees.

Also, gaming rigs and mobile workstations have differences in how the hardware
functions. I don't have an intimate explanation, but gaming laptops are not
meant for virtualization. If you have a gaming rig and mobile workstation with
the exact same specs, the workstation will host VMs smoothly while the gaming
laptop VMs will be slow and clunky.

~~~
gargravarr
Workstation-class machines seem to focus on executing multiple tasks in
parallel and sharing resources fairly among them. Gaming laptops focus on
giving one task 100% of the power.

------
gargravarr
Apple: "it may have a neutered processor, no upgradeability, limited GPUs and
a REAL heat-dissipation problem, but the MBP is SO THIN!!"

Lenovo: "here, have a Xeon in your razor blade"

------
datenwolf
And again a 16:9 screen aspect ratio on a clam-shell device. Seriously, I
can't stand this aspect ratio.

Microsoft and Google got the message and put 3:2 aspect screens into their
notebooks. However the servicability ratings for the Surface Book and the
Chromebook Pixel are terrible. Also the lack a trackpoint pointing device (and
the keyboards are sub par); I usually disable the touchpad on my laptops, so
having a trackpoint is a must.

Lenovo _does_ have mobile computers with a 3:2 aspect screen. But those are
tablets, with the keyboard being an accessory. If Lenovo took that 3:2 screen
and put it into a clam-shell design notebook computer it's an instant buy. The
notebook computer I currently use as my day-to-day device is closing in on
being 10 years of age: The display bezel is broken, the hinges worn out, yet
only recently I bought a new battery, because quite frankly, in the past 5
years, there was not a single hardware offer that ticked all the "must" boxes
I want to be checked for the next notebook computer I buy.

------
iliaznk
What I find with potential macbook replacements is that while specs can be
higher, or even much higher, which is quite easy to achieve, it is the build
quality that starts to drag behind, and even if something is comparable in
that respect – cooling is what can easily spoil the entire picture.

Like Dells, for example, whose fans never stop event when you're just
browsing. At leas the ones I've seen. Does anybody know a performant laptop
that can compete with macs in terms of quietness?

~~~
fyfy18
Build quality of Thinkpads is usually a lot better than Apple in terms of
robustness, and if something breaks it is usually easy to replace just the
part that’s broken (Lenovo offer on-site repair option for most machines).
This is their testing standard for most Thinkpads:

[https://www.lenovo.com/hk/en/thisisthinkpad/innovation/think...](https://www.lenovo.com/hk/en/thisisthinkpad/innovation/thinkpad-
mil-spec-tested-to-the-extreme/)

------
undoware
Ok, but can it run Ubuntu 18.0x?

Could someone who knows their chipsets please hazard a guess?

~~~
strmpnk
Yes. From the spec sheet, you can order it with Ubuntu pre-installed as well.

------
ChuckMcM
Where once again we see it isn't "lack of suitable parts" that prevents Apple
from producing a decent Macbook pro.

I particularly like the ECC dimms available as I'm the weird guy who worries
about bit flips :-). In general (caveat the Lenovo spyware stories) looks like
a good candidate to replace my MBP2015.

------
bubblethink
>Cheaper versions could potentially rely on Intel’s UHD 620 iGPU, but Lenovo
is not announcing any such products today.

The Nvidia tax is really annoying. Once you get to up a certain CPU (i7 or
Xeon), Lenovo forces you to buy Nvidia. I just want a good powerful laptop
without Nvidia.

------
Rotdhizon
I have the Lenovo p51 and I'm mostly satisfied with it. The biggest drawback
to me is the battery and the weight. Just using business apps the battery can
go a few hours, but I like to get in some gaming on it and when gaming the
battery drains so very fast. The charger for it is very flimsy. The piece that
plugs into the brick falls out if you so much as cough in its direction.

------
TD-Linux
I'm disappointed this didn't launch with the i7-8809g as was rumored - having
an AMD GPU would be far better for a Linux machine.

------
api
This is the kind of hardware Apple would be shipping for "Pro" if they cared.

~~~
DKnoll
ThinkPad hardware and Apple hardware are very different, from a design
perspective and also repairability. Similar specs maybe.

~~~
walrus01
The first generation Macbook Pro that used an Intel CPU (2006) and the later
ones (2009 15 and 17 inch) were the same idea as this Thinkpad, in terms of
industry standard ports and I/O. They put as many I/O ports in it as they
could fit. Wired gigabit ethernet, firewire 400/800 which was state of the art
at the time, dual audio jacks, three USB ports, etc. The 2006 model even had a
full size DVI port which could drive a 2560x1600 display.

If Apple had continued the same design philosophy from the 2006 Macbook Pro
and put it in the 2018 Macbook Pro, it would have as many ports as this
Thinkpad and probably even more.

~~~
api
I don't care so much about ports, but a Xeon with 64GB RAM would be quite
nice.

~~~
walrus01
At a certain point it's far better to ssh into a remote xen or kvm host system
that has some ridiculous amount of ram like 512GB, and develop stuff on a VM
there...

------
kentosi
If I buy the non-4k model, can I still hook it up to my 4k monitor without any
loss in quality? Or is it that the 4k model is built to handle this better?

I'm kind of embarrassed to be asking this because I feel like I should know
this.

~~~
izacus
The integrated (and both discrete, whichever you choose) graphics will handle
4K output just fine. It has HDMI 2.0 port which supports 4K output.

------
beenBoutIT
Does anyone know when Lenovo's patent on the TrackPad expires? I'm looking
forward to seeing the TrackPad replace touchpads on laptops outside of the
ThinkPad line.

~~~
bubblethink
You mean the trackpoint ? Not sure about the patent expiration, but Dell and
HP also license it and include it some of their products. So it is not that
exclusive.

~~~
beenBoutIT
Yeah, I meant the trackpoint. Didn't realize it was used on other products.

------
enahs-sf
This is a sweet machine but the price is eye watering.

------
rc_bhg
This looks really nice.

~~~
nkg
I am amazed

------
segmondy
I have a ThinkPad X1 carbon and it's crap. At least running Ubuntu on it is
garbage. Battery life is terrible, sometimes the screen flickers which I
suspect is video driver, suspend doesn't work and locks up the machine. Had to
return 2 of them due to hardware issues when we ordered one for everyone on my
team. I like the portable form factor, display, keyboard. But
stability/usability has not been the best experience. Which is strange because
the thinkpad are often well behaved when running Linux.

~~~
beefield
For battery life you likely want to install tlp.

[https://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-
ma...](https://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-
management.html)

~~~
davidandgoliath
This! I had 15 minutes remaining one day in battery life, installed tlp & was
good for another 45. Massive improvement.

If you don't want that carbon though, I'll buy it off ya if it's a gen5.

------
zeveb
Sounds very appealing, but combine Intel ME with the fact that the laptop is
made by a Chinese firm _and_ the fact that Lenovo has previously snuck spyware
onto its machines — I don't think one can really trust it to be secure, even
running Linux.

~~~
smacktoward
_> made by a Chinese firm_

So are MacBooks. _Designed_ in California, sure, but they’re _made_ in China.

~~~
snerbles
Beyond that though, Lenovo has a track record of cramming pre-installed, hard-
or-impossible-to-remove malware on its machines. On some models, it's even at
the BIOS level [0].

At a minimum, I would be very suspicious of anything pre-installed on a Lenovo
laptop and that includes the ones that ship with Ubuntu.

[0]
[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/)

~~~
diffeomorphism
Entirely different part of lenovo though.

[https://www.infoworld.com/article/2616335/techology-
business...](https://www.infoworld.com/article/2616335/techology-
business/lenovo-to-create-thinkpad-focused-business-unit-to-compete-at-the-
high-end.html)

So, while tangentially relevant, it is like bashing samsung washing machines
for touchwiz on samsung phones.

~~~
gruez
>it is like bashing samsung washing machines for touchwiz on samsung phones.

those aren't really the same. in lenovo's case was breaching the consumer's
trust, whereas in your example, it's purely a design decision.

