
Why I'm building Nilai - A simple bookmarking service - cdevroe
http://cdevroe.com/notes/why-nilai/
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kijin
Typo on the front page: "intension" should be "intention". You don't want to
confuse all those philosophy majors out there :)

I'm looking at your screenshot [1] right now, and one question comes to mind:
How are users going to organize their bookmarks on Nilai? The drop-down design
shown in the screenshot reminds me of Gmail's labels, which will turn into a
mess once you go beyond a certain number of tags/categories. Besides, everyone
else uses the same organization system and similar features. Why should I try
Nilai when I've already paid a one-time fee to Pinboard?

Well, here's one possible reason. Just the other day, I was trying to import
my browser bookmarks into Pinboard, but aborted when I realized that Pinboard
would not preserve the elaborate folder hierarchy (270+ folders) that I'd
created over the years to organize my 5600+ bookmarks, many of which I never
tagged. If there's any non-social bookmarking service that allows me to use
_both_ folders/subfolders _and_ tags/labels to organize my bookmarks, I'll
sign up in an instant. This isn't about fancy features, it's about basic
paradigms. So there's a little feature request!

[1] <http://nilai.co/assets/images/screenshot_desktop.jpg>

~~~
cdevroe
Good question. I can honestly tell you that given your needs, Nilai may never
work well for you. I hope you find the exact service you're looking for
though.

~~~
kijin
Thanks. I was hoping that a service that claims it will be around in 10 years
might also come with features that make it easy for people to import and
manage bookmarks from 10 years ago. But it seems that your needs are
different.

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zackzackzack
Glad he mentioned pinboard. idlewords expressed a similar sentiment a few
months back. <http://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/>

EDIT: Correct user.

~~~
joshu
You mean idlewords, perhaps?

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jarofgreen
Why not go Open Source?

It's just that you repeatedly mention that your main aim is to have a service
that will last for ever; but there's nothing different in your service (apart
from your intentions) that will guarantee that. Basically, your asking people
to trust you on that one.

But if it was Open Source, with good import/export features, then if it was
threatened by closure people could just move their data to another service
using the same software (techy ppl could even run their own server).

I'm sure there are already open source bookmarking services; why not just help
one of those instead of reinventing the wheel?

Of course, the business model for making money from Open Source is completely
different. But from your stated intentions, that's not your aim.

~~~
cdevroe
jarofgreen: I've thought a lot about this. I'm a big proponent of open source.
And I intend to giving a lot of thought to open sourcing Nilai sometime in the
future - just so that (as you put it) "techie people" can run their own
servers if they want.

However, I think running the service is where the value really is. If someone
is techie enough to grab an open source project, install it on their own
server, and keep it running - I have little doubt that they could build Nilai.
In fact, they can probably build it better than I can.

That being said, I do hope that Nilai will turn a profit. I'm charging such a
small cost that I obviously do not intend to get rich off of Nilai but I
wouldn't mind it running in the black rather than in the red.

Perhaps you could give mittechie's Bookie a spin?
<https://github.com/mitechie/Bookie> \- I think it looks pretty good.

~~~
jarofgreen
> It's just that you repeatedly mention that your main aim is to have a
> service that will last for ever; but there's nothing different in your
> service (apart from your intentions) that will guarantee that. Basically,
> your asking people to trust you on that one.

You didn't answer this point; and honestly I don't mean to offend you or imply
your intentions are suspect - I don't know you at all, so I can't judge. But
that's exactly the problem - how do you persuade ppl like me to trust you?

Compare the situation to wordpress.com vs blogger/tumblr/closed-source-blog-
platform. I always look to the former first because I know it's so easy for me
to move my blog onto one of many wordpress-supporting hosts or my own server
if I need to, and thus I feel the longeveity of my site is guaranteed much
more.

You could be in the same situation, if you Open Source it and several people
ran your software as a host. That would make it easy for users to switch - and
then you have a much better and practical guarantee for users that it will
stick around in some form.

Anyway, last comment I'll make as obviously it's your choice in the end; but
that's what I think. And I do need to look at an Open Source bookmarking
service soon :-)

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vladimirm
I checked out the site and while the comps you have there seem nice, I don't
see what makes it different from other bookmarking services.

~~~
jroseattle
From the article, it seems the main feature of the service is that it will
exist forever -- no sellouts.

That is are very big claim to make, indeed. While very well intentioned and
honorable, it is very difficult for anyone to say "this will never go away"
and be able to back it up in a meaningful way.

But good for him, nonetheless. In a time when apps and services are treated as
throwaway commodities, his eagerness is refreshing.

~~~
pclark
everyone says this

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sidman
The name got me straight away, i wondered if it was someone from indonesia who
was building it because i recognized the name as having the meaning of "value"
in indonesian (as you mentioned) and what do you know ... its close :).

Good luck with it, hope it goes well. And salam to your dad from one who also
has roots in bandung !

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cdevroe
Just an FYI for anyone still tracking this discussion. Today I released Smart
Labels <http://cdevroe.com/notes/nilai-smartlabels/>

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narad
"... cool to name the service an Indonesian word. Nilai is pronounced (as best
as I can tell) Nee’-lie. It is an Indonesian word meaning mark."

Nilai means "a place" in Tamil, a language in South India. It has also many
meanings.
[http://tamil.indiandictionaries.com/meaning.php?id=12587&...](http://tamil.indiandictionaries.com/meaning.php?id=12587&lang=Tamil)

~~~
bearwithclaws
Nilai is the name of a town not far from (an hour drive) where I'm staying:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilai>

In Malay, it means "value/worth".

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rvrv
Very simple system. It's so simple you dont even need to use any credentials
on login page. Just click login and you ready to go :-)

~~~
cdevroe
rvrv: I've double-checked this claim and I haven't been able to replicate the
issue. I would love any suggestions on how to replicate this as well as
suggestions on how to button it up. Thanks for finding it!

~~~
rvrv
Hmm. Maybe it is intended behavior or i just do something wrong but my way to
replicate this is open <http://nilai.co/> and simply click login button
without entering anything in login form fields. When i do that i click "Your
Marks" and then Archive i i can see sth like this:

<http://imgur.com/93L5J>

Best regards.

~~~
rvrv
In other way... login: Email password: xxxxxxx Its open account :-) I think
You should gimme free account for this bug submiting :)

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toadi
He mentions pinboard. the idea of pinboard is the same: no free users. So we
have more trust in this service sticking around for the long haul. Also it's
simple.

Maybe he should make a small table first listing the differentiating facts
between his service and Delicious and Pinboard.

It's just not clear and I fear he will scratch his itch alone...

~~~
cdevroe
toadi: I understand your concern. And it is valid. I totally plan on
scratching my own itch and I hope that my itches align with other's itches.
But, I'm also excepting as many suggestions as anyone cares to give.

Maybe you could come back to Nilai in a few months, see where it is, and if it
fits.

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jonespen
Protip: Put class "btn btn-primary" on the login button. Ref
<http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/base-css.html#buttons>

~~~
cdevroe
jonespen: It will be in today's release! Thanks. :)

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recroad
I like that you have aspirations here, but can the developer please provide
some points about how this service will be different than the rest in terms of
features.

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mgkimsal
does it necessarily _need_ to be different?

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recroad
For me, yes. It either needs to have features existing services don't have, or
simply execute better than what's out there now.

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redguava
I am too distracted by the N in your logo looking like a Z on it's side.

Is that intentional?

~~~
cdevroe
Not intentional - I'm simply not a designer. Maybe someone would like to
submit a better logo?

