
Tell HN: I quit my job to bootstrap my startup by myself. - chr15
I'm 24 and worked as a developer for a consulting company working on custom enterprise apps. I got tired of watching the startup world from the sidelines, so I took the plunge and quit my job to work on my own projects.<p>I don't have paying customers, thousands of Twitter followers, a large presence here on HN, or even a cofounder. I'm starting from absolutely nothing and will be building from the ground up. All I have is 12-15 months of savings and my hacking skills.<p>I moved back home with my parents to save some money and build the product out, but will hopefully be moving out to San Francisco sometime this year.<p>I started a blog (www.itschris.me) if you would like to stay up to date on what I'm up to or get in touch.
======
presidentender
Don't move to SF before you're making the money to afford it. Those savings
will stretch a lot further living with Mom and Dad.

~~~
ryancarson
Don't move to SF at all. It never ceases to amaze me how 1st time web start-
ups think moving there is the only way to succeed. Grrrr.

We're located in Bath, England. That's right, not even London. We launched our
new startup in June 2010 and we just hit $600K in yearly recurring rev. MRR
grew by almost 20% this month. Don't believe the TechCrunch hype about funding
and the Silicon Valley scene.

~~~
merrick
Ryan I am impressed with all of your achievements including
<http://thinkvitamin.com/> but I am not sure your advice is as sound as your
business. Your team has built a great brand globally over many years with the
conference business, and in my opinion you have done a nice job leveraging
that brand equity for your new startup.

I do agree that if you are building a revenue focused company, you don't have
to go to San Francisco.

But it's hard to argue against how easy it is to raise money or get acquired
in the valley vs anywhere else in the world. Look at how easy it was for Path
and Instagram to raise money and to get cheap money at that. In other markets
many VCs want to see revenue not just traction and that revenue can work
against you and lower your valuation - making the money more expensive.

For reference to Instagram, see this Chris Dixon interview with Kevin Systrom

"He also talks about how the serendipity of Silicon Valley contributed to the
formation Instagram, remembering a party that Dixon once threw in San
Francisco where Systrom ended up meeting his key angel investors."

[http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/02/founder-stories-
instagram-l...](http://techcrunch.com/2011/02/02/founder-stories-instagram-
launch/)

~~~
il
It does make me a little sad that there are companies that are not "revenue
focused". It would be a shame if the word "revenue" started getting thrown
around with the same disdain as "lifestyle business".

------
sudonim
Firstly, best of luck with your startup! That's an exciting move. I'd also
recommend moving somewhere like New York, SF, Boston, Austin where there is an
active community of technologists with whom you can bounce ideas.

I wanted to point out though that your startup's name brings forth strongly
negative connotations.

Your startup is photo sharing site called Hard Candy.

There's a movie called Hard Candy about a 32 year old pedophile photographer
who gets castrated by Ellen Page's (Juno) character and then kills himself.

Something to be aware of as people see your site.

~~~
chr15
Thanks. Yeah, I'll change the name. It's not intended to be the final name.
Just until I can think of something better. I've never seen that movie.

~~~
runjake
And you don't want to. Trust me. But yeah, I agree with the OP. The name "Hard
Candy" immediately inspired thoughts of castration.

~~~
ojbyrne
Why not? I enjoyed the movie.

------
ww520
Congratulation. Good for you to save up 12-15 months for expenses. Try to
stretch that out to 24 months. Enough financial reserve will give you peace of
mind to pursue your startup goal.

Spend your biggest asset, time, wisely. Block off HN/Reddit/Facebook/etc. Turn
off IM and set your email polling to a hourly basis. Try to contract yourself
to do the work. Set up a hourly rate for yourself and bill yourself to do the
work. It's easier to see the value of time once you translate it into money.
But don't get burned out either. Exercise. Jogging or walking in the park or
along the beach is free.

Try to work at home, or go to library and cafe if need to go out. No need to
rent office space or share-workspace. Most libraries and cafes have free net
connection. Get a Google Voice number as your work number and route it to your
phone.

If you are in the SF Bay Area, there are events you can go to for learning and
socializing.

Hackers-and-Founders, <http://www.meetup.com/Hackers-and-Founders>

BAYCHI, <http://www.baychi.org/program>

SFBayACM, <http://www.sfbayacm.org>

ETL, <http://etl.stanford.edu>

Android Developers Meetup, <http://www.android-android.net/events/>

Search the web or wiki for other interest groups.

Good Luck!

------
jhrobert
Are we seeing "The Rise Of the Solo Founder"? Being solo myself, I wonder if
we, solo founders, should build a league? "The League of the Solo Founders".

As a solo founder, I feel like an "only child", there is always that suspicion
that something might be wrong...

~~~
keeptrying
Created this: <https://convore.com/single-founders>

~~~
rokhayakebe
Convore needs to let me join by emailing (maybe they do, but I couldn't find
how) and without signing up.

~~~
keeptrying
I have to add your email. Whats your email? Email me railsnoob at yahoo dot
com.

------
huntergdavis
Hey Chris,

Good luck! I know where you are coming from. Normally I'd suggest you read my
book on the topic (LFF - free on www.hunterdavis.com), but it sounds like
you're already over the first hump (saving for the startup). I'm 29, and last
June along with a co-founder quit my 9-5 to start www.discursivelabs.com.
We've got some upcoming products and some sites in active beta. The best three
pieces of advice I would give you:

1\. Be open to contracts when they come up. Seriously, just being open to the
possibility of contract work and attending appropriate trade shows can get you
through the lean times. 2\. Betas. Always beta, beta often. Don't rush to go
public with your beta. We've gotten so much valuable insight into our product
from our beta testers It's staggering the difference in quality feedback
between 100 motivated private beta testers and 10000 mediocre public ones. 3\.
Build your word of mouth with useful information and verify it exists with
site analytics. I was lucky in that I had a fairly active community of
programmers and hackers reading my personal website, but I had a fairly good
number of folks email after a good StackExchange reply I posted. People
appreciate useful information, and it's a good chance to mention your product.

------
cappaert
There's an increasingly-active startup community in DC -- consider staying
here and saving money staying with the rents.

Here's a quick overview of the major spaces to meet-up with other tech folks
in DC:

Best Resources for Web & Software Product Startups
<http://www.socialmatchbox.com> <http://dcstartupwiki.com>
<http://www.meetup.com/DC-Lean-St..>. <http://meetup.hackernewsdc.org/>

Best Resources for Social Media & Consulting Startups
<http://www.techcocktail.com> <http://www.meetup.com/socialweb/>
<http://www.meetup.com/DCSPOTTER/> (also misc. startups)

General Networking <http://ngagedc.org/>

Best place for events all around: <http://www.meetup.com>
<http://www.dctechevents.com> <http://www.baltimoretechevents.com>

Note: this list came directly from Quora. Be sure to follow and keep updated
with any new groups/sites: [http://www.quora.com/Business/Im-24-living-near-
DC-working-f...](http://www.quora.com/Business/Im-24-living-near-DC-working-
full-time-and-want-to-be-involved-in-the-entrepreneurial-community-Whats-the-
best-way-to-get-started?__snids__=13704336#ans381629)

~~~
bigsassy
Don't forget <http://proudlymadeindc.com> to see all the MANY different active
startups in the DC area.

------
qas1981
I'm 29 and thought about quitting and doing my own and was talked out of it by
my older peers at my corporate job. I was about 24 for then. In hindsight it
was by far one of my regrettable decisions. I see products and ideas being
created that were all in my personal incubator. Not to mention they are all
profitable. So I say this, if you have internet, time & a mind anything is
possible. Good luck on your ventures. I'm sure success will find you.

~~~
borski
Out of curiosity, why not still do it? If you regret it, what in your mind is
convincing you it's too late to try?

~~~
qas1981
Really its out of comfort and fear of the unknown. I do freelance development
and it scratches the itch I have to do interesting work for now. I also have
decided to wait until I stumble upon a great idea. Really I'm to the point now
I'm just working for healthcare. Meaning I'm paid well but spend nada.

------
jasonmcalacanis
Good luck, and come to the launch conference next week as my guest, ping me
@Jason

~~~
sammville
Awesome Jason!! I really love your interest in helping people..

------
gaustin
Good for you.

I promised myself I would give notice today. I don't think it's going to
happen. Maybe it's just because I'm older (28) and have more inertia (wife,
dog, a bunch of stuff to pack or get rid of and moving) to overcome.

~~~
gaustin
I hate to reply to my own post, but in this case I think it's good form.

I'm going to give notice as soon as my boss is back from wherever he's gotten
off to.

I do have another job offer that I'm debating. I think it's probably better to
turn that down and finally get out of this backwater (a city of ~40k people in
a mountainous US state).

That means moving in with my parents in Nebraska until we get things together
for a move somewhere more startup and tech friendly. While I'd be happy moving
to the Bay area and eeking it out in a one-bedroom place, I'm not going to
drag the wife and dog (can you even find dog-friendly places out there?) into
that.

I hope none of the affected parties reads this...

------
eps
You should've really started on a project without quitting the day job. But
since you did, try and work as if you have only three months left instead of
twelve. A year of carte blanche is a LOT, it will entice you to sidetrack and
spend time on stuff that doesn't matter. So assume you are already running out
of time and set your priorities based on that.

In any case - good luck. It's going to be interesting :)

~~~
chr15
Thanks for the advice. I'm about 90% done with my project so I would much
rather go all in at this point.

I wouldn't have quit if I had more responsibilities such as a mortgage, kids,
family, etc.

~~~
eps
Ah, ok. Great to hear that. The way I read it was that you quit and only then
would start on a project. 80/20 rule still applies though :)

------
Ixiaus
Why San Francisco? Move to San Diego and pay _a lot less_... I'm out here
building a startup and there are many others doing the same.

~~~
chr15
San Diego is also on the list. I should've put "The Valley" in general. Thanks
for the comment.

~~~
kevinherron
Not sure where you're geographically located but San Diego isn't anywhere near
anything that could be considered "The Valley".

~~~
chr15
I was thinking of San Jose :)

------
anujkk
Hi Chris. I must say you are doing exactly what I did 5 years back. I would
like to share my experience with you.

Starting up my own company was my dream since my college days but I worked at
Tata Consultancy Services Ltd. as a SAP ABAP Developer for 2 years after
completing my graduation. It was a nice job with smart people around me and
interesting work to do, not to forget the high salary SAP consultants get. It
was good for 2 years but then I felt my job was dragging me away from my
dream. The whole corporate environment started to suck. It was time to leave
the shores and get into the deep sea.

I had some good ideas related to web. My plan was to work together with two of
my college friends and they both agreed on this thing. I never asked them to
quit their jobs but to just work on weekends. One of them backed out at last
moment.

Lesson learned - Don't make your plans dependent on others. Make sure you
alone can handle it if required.

Its getting long so I will just point out other suggestions I have for you:

1\. Have a fail back strategy for everything.

2\. Get a co-founder but make sure he is as committed to your idea as you are.
Some of them will try to tell you how you need to do something else to get
some quick money and then use that for your project. Those people are
interested in earning money and not in your idea.

3\. Spend as little cash as possible.

4\. Focus on only one project - your dream project - as early as possible.
Don't waste your time on random projects for learning or to earn quick cash.

5\. Choose a technology platform early and stick with it.

6\. Release your Version 1.0 as early as possible.

7\. Don't work 24/7/365. Its not good in long run. Give 8-12 hours per day and
take a day off on Sundays. Important thing is to be consistent.

8\. Network with people who can help you - other hackers, designer,
entrepreneurs, etc. Use your weekends for this.

9\. Stay away from your friends or family members who discourage you. Stay
away from their negative energy. However you positive or sure you may be it
will affect you. Good thing will be to have a limited contact with such
people.

10\. Don't get involved in love relationships unless your girlfriend is
supportive.

Best of luck.

~~~
toadi
All good and sound advice. But Nr.2 I don't understand. Why is pivot'ing not
good?

~~~
anujkk
Everything you do in your startup should lead to your primary goal and not
distract you from that. Small, related projects or activities that can somehow
help you make progress in your main startup idea isn't a bad thing.

What happens is that if someone joins your startup and he is more interested
in earning money than the implementation of idea itself, he will try to
convince you that your idea is going nowhere and you should put it on hold for
sometime, may be for a year or two and do some other things like consultancy,
web design etc. to earn money. Thing is that you will get dragged into other
unrelated activities(that you don't enjoy doing) and will waste the time you
should be utilizing to work on your primary project. In this case, your and
your partner's objective aren't aligned. Such people tend to switch projects
too often as they want quick money. You will find yourself switching from
project A to project B to project C and it all will be a big mess. After a
year or two you will realize that you have failed in all of those, your
partner isn't interested in continuing anymore and you are at same place where
you started, all alone.

Thats why point no. 2 - Get a cofounder who is "genuinely interested" in your
idea. Make sure his goals and your goals are aligned. For example,

"I want to develop an X web application that will help Y users in doing Z
tasks and which will be profitable after 18 months of launch"

and

"I want to develop software to earn some money as early as possible. It can be
your idea or any other depending on the availability of clients and
opportunity."

aren't goals that are aligned with each other.

Edit: A related link - [http://www.startuplessonslearned.com/2009/06/pivot-
dont-jump...](http://www.startuplessonslearned.com/2009/06/pivot-dont-jump-to-
new-vision.html)

------
rksprst
First, good luck and hope you do well.

My startup Socialblaze is in the social/analytics space, and it looks like
you're entering this space as well. Good luck! It's a fun space to be in (and
moving very fast).

Here's a few things I think you should figure out before starting to build
your product:

\- Are you really aware of your customers' needs? Have you talked to any that
would use your product? Would they pay for it? (Also, a customer saying that
he/she would loves that product and would pay for it is very different then
keeping them as an active user with an active subscription for 1+ months).

\- Small businesses, musicians, and influencers don't have much money, what's
your pricepoint? Would they be willing to pay?

\- What's your customer acquisition strategy? Have you tested it? Do you know
it works? What's your backup?

\- If you're providing analytics, make sure your customers actually get ROI
from it. It's possible that a white-label twitpic with 10 new features won't
increase engagement at all or not enough to justify costs, making your
analytics prove that your product isn't useful.

Honestly, I suggest that you first move to the Valley and join a funded early
stage startup as employee #3-5. You'll learn a ton and have the experience +
connections (these are so important!) to do your own startup in a few years.

And startups aren't as glamorous as you think or read on Techcrunch, read
Suster's post on the startup lifestyle:
[http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/30/should-you-really-be-a-
star...](http://techcrunch.com/2011/01/30/should-you-really-be-a-startup-
entrepreneur/)

If you still want to do it: fail fast, fail early, and iterate. Also, find
amazing advisors as quickly as you can.

------
jacobshea
Thanks for sharing Chris, great last blog entry on your site, very honest and
to the point. I worked at BigCo for 3 years, quick BigCo, consulted for 7 yrs,
started an Agency for 5 yrs, then sold it last year.

Now I'm back to consulting, taking a breather, as those 5 years were many
70hr/weeks of blood/sweat/tears.....get ready for the same :)

Good luck to you man!

------
agnesberthelot
Best of luck to you. We are a bootstrapped startup here in the SF Bay Area. It
is true that living expenses in this area can be higher, however the
opportunities you would get is also better, IMHO. From what people who live in
SF the city told me, food is actually cheaper than the suburban cities. Once
you are here, start networking (you can start by looking for suitable meetup
groups in the meetup site) because in general people are very willing to help.
Once again, good luck.

------
puls
If you're looking to save some money, there are a bunch of hacker houses in
the Bay Area that tend to be pretty friendly to having people crash and live
on the cheap while doing the startup thing.

There was an HN thread about this a while back
(<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1536822>) but no current information.
Anybody have connections?

------
homecoded
I admire your dedication! You don't have too much to lose, but a lot knowledge
to gain. Your bootstrapped approach is great and your time-frame reasonable
for a smaller project. Good luck!

If I should ever do a start-up again, I'll go for boot-strapped as well. If
people give you big wads of money they often try to influence your business
too much ... sometimes even beyond recognition. Aw... ugly memories.

------
benedwards
Get something out there that people can use, quickly. Good luck.

~~~
chr15
Thank you. I'm about 1 month away from having something people can use.

------
kaa2102
Good luck to you! I previously worked at Booz as well. You may be surprised
but your experience (and connections) in consulting will help down the road. A
friend of mine (Booz alum) is also transitioning from software development at
a consulting firm to the start up world - he is in b-school at the moment.

~~~
chr15
Thanks! It looks like there are several people from Booz leaving to work on a
startup!

------
bpeters
I noticed you worked at Booz Allen Hamilton, is that the consulting company
you recently quit from?

I am 23 and worked for Booz Allen 4 months ago before I quit myself to work on
my startup.

Best of luck my friend! It is a much better feeling to be working and
struggling for the things you love than having it easy with the things you
don't!

~~~
chr15
Yep, I worked out of their headquarters in McLean, VA. I would definitely like
to keep in touch. Good luck!

~~~
bpeters
Yea, I was based in San Antonio. Thanks!

------
shiftb
Excellent! I did the same thing about a month ago (although I left another
startup, not a BigCo).

Haven't decided whether or not to move in with Mom & Dad though. The savings
would be nice, but I live in Santa Clara already and they're an hour south of
that. The connections in the valley are worth more, IMO.

------
will_lam
Good on you for having the foresight of having enough runway for yourself in
terms of savings. Moving back home was definitely a good call too.

It really depends on what side of the fence you're on. While you "can" start
an awesome company outside of the Valley, it can be challenging (not
impossible) to raise money for a pre-revenue company that has a sole founder.
Starting something in a major metropolitan hub be it NYC, Boston, Seattle,
(insert major US city flush with VC money) can afford you advantages such as
connecting with a supportive and entrepreneurial community. It'll allow you
maybe even find a co-founder as well.

And don't forget to signup for the www.startupdigest.com to be in the know of
all things startup in whatever city you may decide to settle in.

------
lionheart
Congratulations on starting out!

I'm 24 as well and working on my own ramen-profitable startup.

This is a good time in your life to risk it all. My suggestion is to try and
go for revenue as soon as possible. Even if you just get to making $1-2k a
month, you can live on that at this time in your life.

------
shiftb
Clickable: <http://www.itschris.me>

------
slee029
Awesome to hear you're taking the dive, especially when coming from a
consultancy. My co-founder is from Accenture and he's looking to take a LOA in
few months as well. I did a similar thing 3 months back when leaving my job as
a head hunter. It just dawned on me one day when I had to grab lunch with a
candidate I was placing vs a meeting with prospective alpha user who was
calling about the idea I was conceiving over a paper mock-up. Being the
business guy it was the best move for me. Before that move I had trouble
recruiting co-founders outside of my friends. My co-founders are now all
people I've met through networking in trying to achieve a similar vision
rather than simply being a friend and convincing people to join up with you.
More importantly, my co-founders are now 3 other engineers to complement my
business skills. Going full-time put me fighting right in the arena rather
than commentating from the stands.

I think I've come a long way even in the last 3 months going full-time when
thinking about the stupid things I did 5 months ago. Basically I was about to
pay with my initial co-founder/roommate $20k to prototype the mock-up. Instead
I've picked up coding (even at what I consider the old age of turning 27 but
what the heck i'm in this for the long-haul) and found 3 other engineering co-
founders who are all contributing to bootstrap and have instead $20k surplus
to start with now.

Strangely enough, I offered equal equity as well but they said I should keep
more of it since I'm full-time and invested more time into it up to that
point. Furthermore, even though I never pushed it on them, two have approached
me already to go full time starting the summer to pick up the pace as they've
begun to get more excited about the idea. Now we're on our way to launching an
alpha in 2 weeks!

Oh, and to note the paper mock-ups did wonders. If I had paid to outsource the
project with all the iterations I had done up to that point based on the
usability testing I would have easily paid triple. Thankfully, we haven't had
a need to pivot yet from the responses, but we definitely have iterated a
whole bunch since even three months ago which I could never have imagined I
would have found out if I never left the job. If you ever wish to chat and
exchange ideas/stories email me anytime. Best of luck!

------
mcdowall
Congrats on taking the leap.

Having worked on startups with co founders and currently as a soloist here are
a couple of tips that may be of use;

Investigate your Market size and typical search traffic thoroughly.

Begin your seo campaign as early as possible, now would be great, if your new
to this ping me a mail and I will point you to some good starting points and
resources.

Be very selective with your choice of co-founder and try to avoid the
attraction of teaming up with business people who promise the world,
absolutely demand a track record.

Finally, have fun, build something that interests you, there is nothing worse
than having to drag yourself to a pc for a project your not enthused by.

Good luck.

------
hasenj
Good luck. I did the same a coupla months ago (except I didn't even "Tell
HN").

------
whitehatseo
I wanted to say good luck with your startup/move. I once had a nice big corp
job on the east coast but I always had a startup I wanted to take to silicon
valley.

I quit the job, moved out to San Francisco, started a small but successful
consultancy doing what I love (SEO) and am using half my time and the bulk of
my consulting revenue to fund the startup.

You don't even know how right you are about finding like minded people out
here. Everyone is interested in tech, excited about new startups, supportive
of new startups, and there is a ton of talent and $ throughout silicon valley.

Best of Luck.

Mike Coughlin

------
cfontes
Hey, Boa sorte !

I like thousands here am planning to do the same but with Rails. Your Idea
seams nice and the site already looks good. Would be if you post info about
the site, when it happens so we can follow.

Cya later !

------
notahacker
Good luck. I'm working my notice. Only question now is whether I start to
build before or during travel. Better to try and fail than never try at all.

------
rmc
Good luck! Keep us posted. Lots of us (myself included) are interested in
doing something similar. It's great to here how people are getting on.

------
curiouslurker
Bold move and congrats! One word of advice: Don't underestimate how difficult
it is to get customers. Hacking skills are great but if you want to be
successful you will want to spend at the very least 50% of your time worrying
about getting customers for whatever it is that you build. Either that or
partner with someone who is really great at this.

------
Travis
I'm doing the same thing, except leaving my corporate job (moving to half time
there, to keep bennies/some money). I have spent 3 years on this startup, but
only my last pivot got me to where I'm willing to take this move.

It's part scary, part exciting, but mostly I'm pleased at making a major
change that I believe will move my life in the right direction.

------
SupremumLimit
Good luck, I hope you succeed! I'm in a similar situation, although I have a
couple of products bringing in modest revenue. I found that there's always
heaps of things to do when you're a solo founder, and it can be overwhelming.
Also, things _always_ take longer than you expect.

Would be happy to exchange thoughts (email in the profile).

------
whatrocks
What are you building?

By the way, <http://www.itschris.com> is pretty great, too.

~~~
chr15
I'm working on Project Hard Candy (<http://cndy.co>). It's an itch I wanted to
scratch for a while. I need to come up with a better name.

------
netmau5
Good luck! Have you decided what you want to work on yet? Look me up if you
want someone to bounce ideas off of, maybe we can hack something together.

I've got an invitation to Sparkmuse (about to enter beta) for you if you would
like to discuss some of your ideas there too.

------
stcredzero
I'm in almost exactly the same boat, except you'd have to transpose the digits
of my age. I almost quit my job today. I have about the same amount of
"runway" in savings. I'm planning on moving to Austin instead of San
Francisco, though.

------
amac
I'm in a similar situation. Mail me (profile) if you want to exchange thoughts
or ideas.

~~~
scrrr
Same here. Although I'm doing a slightly different thing, I'd still love to
chat. Perhaps I can offer some input as well.

------
toblender
I just quit my job too, but I did it to join an existing startup. I've started
many little projects on the side before. I feel watching someone else do it
first, learning from them before doing it myself is far safer. Good luck.

------
borski
Congrats, Chris! It was a blast grabbing dinner with you a while back and I
look forward to seeing what you've got in store.

All, Chris is the real deal; bright, motivated, and a real "product" guy.

Excited to potentially room with you in the future :)

~~~
chr15
Thanks man. Best of luck to you and Ains!

------
gawker
Great job and good luck to you! I'm also a single founder but don't have the
courage to leave my job just yet (nor the financial means either) so I'll
definitely watch out for your progress.

------
TahaKhan
Hi Chris, I have added my story after reading yours, its here
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2222501>

------
mmalivuk
Hi Chris, feel free to email me. Similar situation here. Cheers,

Milan

------
candiru
I plan to do the same this May. Good luck to you!

------
Judson
Chris, I'm from around the HSV area, if you want, shoot me an email (In my
profile) and we can grab lunch sometime.

------
randall
Love hearing stuff like this. Good luck.

------
liftman
Good luck! I am doing the same, but did not quit my day job.

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eaxitect
Good luck... But, be sure about the business plan...

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mkramlich
my advice:

MVP

multiple, built in parallel or serial

redouble your effort investment on whichever seems to be getting most traction

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tertius
Where is this advice coming from? I.e. have you done this or do you think it's
the best idea?

~~~
mkramlich
both

