
Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre - fitzwatermellow
http://lithub.com/modern-china-is-so-crazy-it-needs-a-new-literary-genre/
======
cjslep
I think the "crazy" aspect coming into play is an iteration of the world-
shattering view that occurs when a child realizes his or her parents are just
people, not infallible perfect protectors. This fundamentally changes the view
of the world for a person because a fundamental truth is no longer true. This
change can be viewed as "crazy" and reality becomes more chaotic in the new
world view.

I believe the same thing is happening right now in modern China. Simply
substitute constituents and the oligarchy instead for the child and parent.
When the citizens realize the infallible groupthink propaganda touted by the
ruling class is in fact being touted by people inflicted with the human
condition, they also experience a change in world view. Again, this change is
"crazy" and more chaotic: A fundamental truth in their world view is no longer
true.

Remember, China favored building a society on Confucianism where society had a
set order. There is no room for the chaos in a Confucian society. However, the
less-promoted Dao De Jing was written in an attempt to perfectly capture the
chaos, contradictions, and hypocrisies of reality. And in a way, applying its
teachings to itself indicates it both succeeds and fails in doing so.

The "ultra-unrealism" that the author keeps espousing seems to me a reaction
for coming to grips to the mind-expanding change that comes when realizing a
truth previously fundamental is no longer true. I am not trying to dismiss
their feelings but am appreciating the personal growth. I hope others do too.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
> When the citizens realize the infallible groupthink propaganda touted by the
> ruling class is in fact being touted by people inflicted with the human
> condition, they also experience a change in world view.

As someone who has grown up in and is Chinese, I very much disagree with this
sentiment, especially in modern day. There has always been a discordant and
uncomfortable relationship with authority in Chinese culture- we are polite to
put on airs to our authorities but we also secretly hate them in some
respects. We understand they are human, like us, but for the sake of society
rule airs are put on to keep them. It has always been understood that
authority and corruption are tightly bound, perhaps even more understood than
in America.

The young see all the holes the government has and both desires to being
justice and also acutely feel the burdens of society's structure on them, but
to upend society has an almost horrific cultural connotation, a cultural
catastophe referred to only as "that critical time" or "those difficult
times". In this triangulation we have also the need for simple food, water,
love, shelter, peace. The modern world and the ancient world are so
intertwined in China, that going of the cities is like a form of time travel.
The difference between my mother's home village and the city less than 1 hour
away by train is the entire industrial revolution.

Much of modern China is also influences from "the critical time" on the modern
history. China still has not recovered, culturally, emotionally. It might
never will, not in any real way. People have been producing this kind of
literature since that time. The most accurate thing in the article is when the
article notes that China might "always" have been like this.

Yes, China has always been like this in its own way. China has had these
methods of storytelling for a long, long time. Now the new generation of
writers is applying this methods to modern problems and modern society in its
complex, cage-like structure that everyone is aware of in their bones.

I disagree with the assessment that this is "crazy" or "coming to grips with a
fundamental truth is no longer true". It is a rational consequence of applying
ancient storytelling methods to a complex triangulation of the new
generation's situation, where we are all aware that the government is a
corrupt and easily-swayed monster, but social upheaval is horrifically
dangerous monster in its own right. It is a problem with no certain solution,
so we write.

~~~
ben_jones
> but to upend society has an almost horrific cultural connotation, a cultural
> catastophe referred to only as "that critical time" or "those difficult
> times"

In historical context the Chinese have every right to be weary. Between WW2
and the "Great Leap Forward" over fifty million have died due to famine and
warfare, either inflicted by international forces or the ruling class.

~~~
onlywei
Don't forget the overthrow of the Qing dynasty by the British in the 1800s.

~~~
ben_jones
Yeah the Opium wars, where Britain arguably got a whole nation addicted to
Opium in order to secure better trading conditions for the East India Company.

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coldtea
So, some corrupt officials, a polygamist, a wanted official seeking asylum in
a foreign consulate, and restaurants reusing cooking oil too much is an
example of "unreality"?

Where exactly did the author grew up in? Cushioned upper class life, or
Disneyland?

And those examples in a country with over a billion people? You can find all
those examples in Africa, Asia, South America, etc.

A lot of those are hardly uncommon in the West either, just in more "white
collar" versions. Restaurants re-using cooking-oil? Tons of restaurant are
closed every year for just that and worse hygienic offenses. Or we have some
company like VW falsifying emissions data (and lately, it comes out that
several other companies did), impacting the environment in a huge scale.

Corrupt politicians? We have Presidents and PMs, senators and MPs openly
retiring and joining the boards of companies they helped during their
political career.

Heck, in Mexico the mob abducted 140+ students, executed them all together,
and for the country it was business as usual for the country.

And those are examples or unreality? LOL.

~~~
cooper12
You're doing no better by trivializing the author's purview. He doesn't live
anywhere else you mentioned, he lives in China and in Tibet before that. That
is the world he inhabits and that his writing reflects.

Not to mention that problems are relative; you think an American balking at
finding out their favorite restaurant was closed because of hygiene issues
doesn't feel something comparable to a Chinese person who finds out their
favorite street vendor used gutter oil? [0]

Also in all of those Western examples you gave, China was much worse off. How
can you say that China's situation isn't bad with a straight face? This is a
country where the smug is so bad you can't see a few feet ahead of you. Where
people who criticize the government can be made to disappear. Where the
internet goes through a firewall [1] and is closed off from the rest of the
world. [2] Sure, there are many countries worst off, but that doesn't mean we
can completely overlook issues with our own countries.

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil)

[1]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall)

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_C...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_China)

~~~
ebbv
> Not to mention that problems are relative; you think an American balking at
> finding out their favorite restaurant was closed because of hygiene issues
> doesn't feel something comparable to a Chinese person who finds out their
> favorite street vendor used gutter oil?

I don't think it's unreasonable to have a strong reaction in either case. But
I do agree with the parent commenter that believing this to be unprecedented
and "beyond unreal" shows a level of ignorance or naivety that is more
remarkable than the event itself.

------
LiweiZ
I only skimmed the article since reading familiar @#$% in Chinese context in
another language made me feel sick. I think this guy is just like many other
Chinese that want to make a claim on a global stage with little awareness of
what the reality on that stage might be. They often coin a concept for China
and claim its uniqueness and somewhat advancement. People are easy to make
that kind of claim when all they can see are just raw observations, especially
when they think they know what they observed.

~~~
LiweiZ
OK, I finally found something related he wrote in Chinese "超幻时代的写作（宁肯）":
[http://www.bjwl.org.cn/wwwroot/bjzjw/publish/article/657/530...](http://www.bjwl.org.cn/wwwroot/bjzjw/publish/article/657/53058.shtml)

From what I can guess, he is from the inside of the system "体制内". So most
likely, someone in the system needs to do some more "theoretical" work to
prove/claim the advancement of "us" (Chinese). That's it. Don't worry about
what it actually delivers, it is way less related than we think. The only
difference nowadays is that we can make those propaganda seen by westerners.
Even on HN.

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dreamszl
Sorry but I really don't think "chaohuan" is a Chinese word. I don't like the
author's writing style, use measures instead of the content to gain readers
interest. Also I agree with some fact in the article, but it overemphasizes
the bad side and neglect the good side. I agree the "Good fortune is that
wherein disaster lurks", but I don't think we should stop progressing because
of the afraid of the disters. There is also another Chinese saying "Righting a
wrong must first Overcorrect", although it's saying overcorrect but I think
it's saying all the cost of doing right. And the bad side can be seen by the
public is because the Chinese government is doing something to deal with the
bad things.

~~~
dreamszl
And HN prefer to write a bad China, but as a Chinese citizen I think my life
is becoming better and richer instead of worse. And mood and bias both have
huge impact to make us misunderstanding the world.

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aab0
I don't know about 'new'. I read Dos Passos's _U.S.A._ trilogy many years ago,
and what I kept thinking in reading articles and essays about China's
modernization over the past decades is, 'it's _just_ like in Dos Passos!'
Especially when you read about some Chinese businessman who has founded a
dozen businesses none of which have anything to do with each other after
starting as a beggar or something, I kept finding it an echo of the people in
Passos. China is really in a similar stage as the USA was in the Gilded Age,
right down to the muckrakers in Hong Kong and private security agencies.

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ZenoArrow
Whilst I'm sure China has some 'ultra-unreal' situations, I don't think
anything it can produce will top this one... 62 people have the same level of
wealth as half the world's population. If you're talking ultra-unreal, nothing
else is likely to come close to global inequality.

[http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-
releases/2016/01/...](http://www.oxfam.org.uk/media-centre/press-
releases/2016/01/62-people-own-same-as-half-world-says-oxfam-inequality-
report-davos-world-economic-forum)

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LiweiZ
"chaohuan" perhaps means "超幻" in Chinese.

------
labrador
The astonishing thing is that China works as well as it does after the utter
madness of the so-called "Great Leap Forward."

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mac01021
Does anyone have a link to the original Chinese source of this article?

~~~
LiweiZ
I'm not able to find the article in Chinese anywhere, either.

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tzakrajs
Modern Chinese writer so crazy he invents new literary genre.

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iliketosleep
i don't know about a new genre, but modern china on it's current trajectory
would be perfect material for an epic dystopian novel

~~~
mac01021
You subscribe to the thesis that China's future is grim compared to it's
present state? Or that it is a dystopia of epic proportions right now? If you
care to elaborate, I am interested in your perspective.

~~~
iliketosleep
It’s in the process of materialising, the conditions are already set. Firstly,
China’s "rise" came from cheap labour and the destruction of the environment.
Labour is not so cheap anymore, and the environment is all but destroyed. But
that’s okay, China’s already rich, right? Problem is the people are still
poor, and much of the money already left the country. China’s GDP (PPP) per
capita is less than that of Iraq, but the media and hence the masses are too
fixated on national GDP to even notice (as times get tougher, this will
change). Now that manufacturing is on the way out, where’s the money going to
come from? The people still haven’t woken up but the party certainly has. They
know there’s a ticking time-bomb of social unrest. Time to bring back
Confucian ideology to maintain social order, and find an appropriate scapegoat
for all the problems; western values (which they never even clearly defined).
Enter the State Administration of Film, Radio and Television (广电总局) to ensure
that all media, including movies and TV series, push this agenda, and the
Social Credit System (社会信用体系) to ensure that your level of success in life is
determined by how closely you follow the party line. People will not even dare
joke about the party, let alone criticize it; too easy to get caught and too
much to lose. Power will go unchecked at unprecedented levels and be enforced
by technology. I could write a lot more, but these are just some of the
reasons I think China's future is grim. I have lived in China for a few years
and I've been seeing these changes happen before my eyes.

~~~
mac01021
Interesting... Thanks!

What city were you in, out of curiosity?

~~~
iliketosleep
guangzhou

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johnchristopher
Interesting: the links at the bottom of the article doesn't work.

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xamuel
The author's examples of so-called ultra-unreal are not so new. Like there
were no corrupt courtesans in olden days?

Re: The Internet: It doesn't necessitate a new genre anymore than the
invention of the telephone did. Good literature incorporates technology just
where it's needed to move the plot along and it's all just window dressing
over the basic proverbs and parables at the core.

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terrble
Hey, look, no offense China.. but you ain't that crazy.

Also... this has been going on in the US for decades.. and if you think China
is ultra-unreal, AVOID Japan.

