
iPhone SE - davidbarker
http://www.apple.com/iphone-se/
======
tsunamifury
No 3D touch is a very odd fragmentation. You'd think they'd want to shore up
their devices to be completely compatible with this across the spectrum to
motivate developers to use it as a key part of their UX.

Now when only X<80% of devices lack compatibility, I'm not likely to take the
time to make 3D Touch a core interaction.

So your apps have to optionally use 3D Touch, Pencil, adaptive layout,
fingerprint, and several other interactions that only cover fractions of their
hardware line.

~~~
Negitivefrags
It's because Apple has realised 3D touch is bad and it's also a very expensive
feature to add to a phone.

The real question is if they will admit it was a misstep by removing it from
their flagship model or just keep pretending and keep it in. Companies really
hate admitting they were wrong so my bet is that they are stuck with it for
the forseeable future.

~~~
Tloewald
Although 3D touch is not widely supported (even by Apple's apps) the
"trackpad" on the keyboard alone is worth it.

~~~
Someone1234
This is going a little off topic: But Microsoft's on-screen keyboard has the
best trackpoint for doing that. Doesn't require 3D touch and works
wonderfully.

Looks like this:

[https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eX2bfHp.jpg)

The blue dot is always there, but the four way arrows only appear after you
press it, and you can drag further away to move faster, or closer to move
slower.

It is one of these things that after you use it you wonder why everyone hasn't
copied it yet. Microsoft's keyboard is actually the best thing on Windows
Mobile.

~~~
lewisl9029
Wow. I wish something like this was available on Windows 10 for
tablets/convertibles.

~~~
Someone1234
Don't get me started on that.

I still want gesture based typing (Swype) on the Surface Pro. The on screen
keyboard is substantially worse on full Windows 10 than it is on Windows 10
Mobile, it makes no sense at all...

What the heck Microsoft? Why is a keyboard on a 5" device better than a
keyboard on a 10" one?

------
afreak
$399 USD is great, but why are we still stuck with 16 GB of storage on base
model phones? You can barely put a day's worth of music on your phone and you
cannot always stream via services like Spotify.

Spotify accounts for 2 GB of traffic per month on my phone and some plans are
barely affordable when you want more than that--fortunately I can do up to 6
GB before I am traffic shaped, but that isn't the say the same for all
carriers in this country.

~~~
programLyrique
I am always surprised by these expansive US plans.

In France for instance, you can have 50 GB LTE for 20 € per month (with Free).
In Austria, 10 GB LTE for 15 € is not uncommon.

~~~
afreak
France and Austria, unlike Canada are very much dense so the infrastructure
required to setup an LTE/UMTS/etc network is less costly.

To travel from Vancouver to the next principal Canadian city (Calgary), it
requires 900 KM of driving and there's only really one metropolitan area of
sorts between the two, meaning that you're going to be setting up cell towers
that handle only so much traffic in a day.

As a result, to get service where you end up with just traffic shaping once
you go beyond 6 GB (beyond that there is no real limit really), you need to go
with a carrier that only services the larger cities. So in my case, my carrier
services just Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, and Ottawa, which are
fairly dense areas with a combined population of 18 million or so, or just
about half of the country's population. Once I leave the city, I have to
piggyback on to other carriers however.

Hence why mobile carriers suck in Canada because the bigger carriers do not
want to eat into their fairly large profit margins. They can afford to offer
such plans, but they simply don't want to.

For the record, I pay $40 CAD/month ($30 USD or 27 EUR) for unlimited North
American calling and text plus the "unlimited" data use.

~~~
thatfrenchguy
For the joke, I studied mobile networking in Canada, and we studied how
actually, the dense areas are what cost the most money to the mobile operator.

The "we are a big country" is just a marketing stunt.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Agreed. This is a sad excuse used by mediocre gov't and corporate entities to
offer poor service and value for money.

For example, when I visit relatives in the Frankfurt region (Mainz), I am
always amazed by how similar geographically and demographically it is to the
greater Toronto area in Ontario. Population and industry wise Toronto and
Frankfurt are very similar -- similar financial sector jobs, similar
population densities.

And yet their infrastructure is _far_ superior. I take the train from
Frankfurt to Mainz in like 20 minutes. From the Mainz train station there is
integrated light rail and bus to a whole network of suburbs and villages,
right out into the countryside. If I want to go for a hike in a forest
preserve, I don't even need a car necessarily, I can take a streetcar and a
bus to many very nice places.

Accessibility of food -- groceries, farmer's markets, restaurants. All better.

And yes, the telecoms infrastructure is far superior value for the money.

North America has let itself fall behind for several decades.

------
dham
I'm one of those hold outs. I had a iPhone 6 for a month and it literally gave
me anxiety because I couldn't thumb around Spotify and other apps like I was
used too. I traded it in for a 5s and have been using it ever since. I figured
I would have to keep it until they stopped putting iOS updates on it. Really
glad they did this.

~~~
giarc
I predict they will sell a ton of the SE's. I'm in the same boat, the 5S was
great and the 4.7" and larger screens just seem too big. I have been waiting
for the SE to come out.

~~~
jonkiddy
Agreed. My 5S broke over winter, 4.7" was too big as a replacement. I tested a
6 in my jeans pocket and it felt odd to me. I immediately purchased another 5S
instead.

Looking forward to a SE.

~~~
giarc
I could have upgraded a few months ago but held out as rumours of this phone
have been around for awhile. I'll be happy to upgrade as I suspect the iPhone
7 will be a 4.7 or 5.5 and those are just too big for me.

~~~
cm2187
Same here, I'm not really after a cheaper phone, just a phone I can use with
one hand. I wish they also released a 128gb version.

~~~
giarc
128GB would have been nice. I have a 32GB now and will upgrade to the 64GB as
I'm sure 4K video will take care of a large chunk.

------
davidw
Here's hoping that they'll include something like this in the Google Nexus
lineup. They keep growing the phones, but my pocket is the same size.

~~~
junto
That's why I've been desperately holding on to my Nexus 4! It is the perfect
size.

~~~
shostack
Got mine sitting right next to me here.

I was going to jump to the 5x, but a limit of 16GB storage with no external
storage in this day and age of high-end phone cameras, video, app bloat, etc.
is just flat out unacceptable for me in a phone at this point.

It's a shame they have such an awful UI, because Samsung is doing some really
great stuff with their Galaxy line on the hardware side of things.

~~~
lelandbatey
The Nexus 5X is not limited to 16 GB, they also sell a 32GB version. Thats not
to say that that will service everyone's space needs, however.

------
robertwalsh0
I remember Jobs talking about never making a larger phone. I really wonder if
it was a case of him caring about "taste" over "giving people what they want."

There was some leaked Apple internal document where they said that people
wanted larger phones. The post-Jobs Apple created larger phones to meet market
demands.

One thing that always makes me giggle, though, is the fact that if you double
tap the home button the screen slides down so you can reach the navigation bar
at the top of the screen. If you have to provide a hardware solution like
that, isn't it proof that the larger phone provides a worse user experience?

I'm excited about the smaller phone. My iPhone 6s is overly difficult to
maneuver.

~~~
carlisle_
This is a user preference thing. I cannot stand using the smaller sized
iPhones, my fingers and thumbs are too large to accurately use the screen. My
vision isn't very good either so I wind up having to squint and/or hold small
phones very close to my face.

I love my gigantic Nexus 6, some people hate it. I like that I can make the
text big and still see enough of it on one screen. I can accurately input
text, and comfortably hold the phone in my hand.

At this point if somebody told me that my large phone was a poor user
experience and I had to use a smaller phone, I would be very upset.

~~~
ufmace
I'm a smaller phone fan, and that's perfectly fine with me. You're welcome to
your large phone if that's what works for you; I just wish more manufacturer
would also make high-end phones that are under 4.5" screen size, i.e. with
good screen, memory, camera, speed, etc. I've never had an iPhone, but I'm
glad that Apple is making this. Hopefully some of the android manufacturers
will follow suit, or I might seriously consider switching.

------
mortenjorck
Only Apple would launch a new phone that looked physically almost identical to
one that has been out for two and a half years.

Similar to keeping the design language of the MacBook family the same across
generations of the product, it's a reaffirmation of Massimo Vignelli's famous
quote "Styles come and go. Good design is a language, not a style."

~~~
rsynnott
I still kind of wish they'd bring back the iPhone 4 industrial design; as far
as I'm concerned it was their high point. The 5/5S is a close second, though.

~~~
Nicholas_C
I was not a fan of the glass back.

------
brandon272
I'm becoming rather impatient with the stagnating Macbook/MBA/MBP product
category. Would very much like a lightweight retina Macbook 13" or larger.

~~~
gergles
As indicated in the keynote, Apple views iPads as the future of personal
computing. This was said multiple times by multiple people. I wouldn't be
surprised to see the MacBook lines continue to stagnate.

~~~
tengkahwee
That will be incredibly shortsighted though. Developers are looking for more
powerful machines all the time.

~~~
randommodnar
But developers are not the majority of customers.

~~~
RubberShoes
Developers are the ones creating the apps for the majority of customers.

Ignoring the tools that developers and creatives use to create and sustain
this thriving ecosystem is a very dangerous move on Apple's part. Skylake
chips for the Macbook lines have been available for months and the Mac Pro
hasn't been updated since 2013. OS X itself continues a long list of bugs and
this only grows with "customer" features inevitably introduced down the line.
El Capitan was supposed to give Apple a year to slow down and fix things but
we have found it has been a huge problem in our work environment.

Datacenters don't run on iPads stacked in a rack, media companies don't play
stuff out of an iPhone with a dongle. Xcode alone is the single reason OS X is
still incredibly relevant. I don't see Jony Ive designing the latest iOS
devices on an iPad for years to come and ignoring these professionals is not a
good move.

Here's to WWDC, when the Skylake chips suited for the Macbook line were
introduced 9 months prior.

~~~
calciphus
I'm not sure I agree that XCode is the reason OSX is preferred by developers.
Maybe some?

Most of the developers I know prefer OSX because of the close-enough-to-linux
terminal experience and compatibility of most libraries. Rails, Scala, Node,
JAVA all run pretty similarly on local machines as they do on the servers.

I suppose it just depends which flavor of developer you hang with!

~~~
brandon272
I would say that OSX is preferred by any power user who needs/wants access to
a "desktop"-style UI, a complete filesystem experience, layered windows, etc.
The bizarre opaque filesystem on iOS drives me crazy, and is one of the
biggest reasons I've had trouble committing to an iPhone.

I don't know of many people working in an office environment, much less as a
developer, who would be satisfied with an iPad Pro as a daily driver when it
comes to getting the amount of work you can get done on something like a
Macbook Air.

Perhaps I just don't understand iOS well enough. I'd love to see a video of
someone actually working and multitasking effectively on an iPad at the speed
that is possible on a Macbook. Most of the videos that Apple releases show
_work_ that is limited to video capture, editing and illustration.

------
cryptoz
Curious that the Sensors list does not include a barometer. It used to be the
case that the A9 with coprocessor carried a barometer inside it. Has this
changed for this phone? That would be incredibly sad if they removed sensors.
Did the M9 iteration of the coprocessor remove the barometer?

[http://www.apple.com/iphone-se/specs/](http://www.apple.com/iphone-se/specs/)

Edit: Interestingly, the new iPad Pro does have a barometer in the Sensor
list: [http://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/](http://www.apple.com/ipad-
pro/specs/)

~~~
mey
Out of curiosity what use did people find in a barometer?

~~~
cryptoz
Apple themselves use it to count the number of flights of stairs you climb.
Google uses it in Android phones for faster GPS and for indoor location
mapping.

I'm using it to forecast the weather by crowdsourcing billions of live
atmospheric pressure measurements at Sunshine
([https://thesunshine.co](https://thesunshine.co)).

Other use cases are for migraine headache prediction/prevention and other
health-related issues. The primary and most exciting use case however is
weather forecasting!

Edit: Basically, barometers are useful for any altitude-related task, as their
error margins for relative altitude changes are very small. Additionally, if
you can filter out the altitude data as noise, you're left with atmospheric
data, which has immense applications when crowdsourced at scale.

~~~
kobayashi
It's also used for emergency phone calls. When 911 calls are made, the
barometric pressure is also relayed to give the emergency operators an idea of
how high someone is, which is especially useful if the call is made from
inside a building.

~~~
krzyk
How does it work? Isn't 911 just a voice call?

~~~
cryptoz
E911, or Enhanced 911, is much more than just a voice call. For some time,
E911 calls have sent sensor data from smartphones to the 911 dispatch, such as
latitude and longitude. Soon, the FCC is going to mandate all barometer-
carrying smartphones to send the barometric pressure when an E911 call is
made.

[https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-9A1.pdf](https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-9A1.pdf)

------
scope
This seems very interesting / surprising, comparing[1] SE and 6S shows SE
doesn't have second generation Touch ID.

I understand the 3D Touch with the space avaliable & all but why not the
second generation Touch ID?

[1]
[http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/](http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/)

------
roymurdock
Here is the fundamental problem for Apple WRT new iPhones:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eSrdgTHhK0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eSrdgTHhK0)

The processing power wall. The difference in processing power is extremely
negligible between the latest models. What application are you going to be
running on your phone that needs more power than the A7/A8, which can load
webpages almost instantaneously? More processing power at this point seems
like it will only be abused to allow sloppier code to slip through the cracks.

Additionally, innovation in the app ecosystem is basically dead to me at this
point.

Differentiation through size, color, camera stabilization, 3D touch,
fingerprint reader, lower price point, etc. is cool...but not really $500 cool
to me as a user who would like (more than) 64gb on a phone.

It's also interesting that they are still pricing the phone at $400 and not
really making it an accessible play for growth markets where Android reigns
supreme...maybe we'll see another "C" version made of plastic that will
continue Apple's push into the lower-price-point markets. Interested to see if
the tradeoff of market share for product focus and brand value is worth it in
the long run, and how the market reacts.

~~~
callalex
Paradoxically, increasing processing power actually improves battery life,
which is one of the most important features of a smartphone. If the CPU can
finish its tasks extremely quickly, it can spend more time in a low-power
state. Also shrinking transistors usually causes both an increase in
performance per watt and a reduction in the number of watts used.

------
chiph
So, 6mm longer than the iPhone 4, but 1.7mm thinner. And with an A9 processor.

Seems like a good size - I haven't cared for their "thinness at all costs"
trend lately, as it makes the phone hard to hold onto. This appears to be much
more hand-friendly.

~~~
Someone1234
Plus battery life is the first thing to go when they aim for thinness.

I know they've improved battery life in the SE, but still, overall the trend
is thinner with a smaller capacity battery (but more efficient components, so
you ultimately break even).

I have a phone with a 3100 mAh battery @ 5.1" 1080p, it isn't the thinnest
phone around, but boy does it last three or four days. It is super nice. We
need more phones like that.

~~~
Philipp__
It seems to me like Apple almost wants you to charge your phone almost
daily... I do not know... I do not see the reason for them too keep slimming
their phones when it noticeably affects the battery. I kinda dislike their
attitude. Expected to do the same as they did with laptops, for example, where
MacBook Pro came so light and thin that I was like, it's a little heavier than
Air and a little thicker, but hell it works better! They didn't sacrifice
anything at brought amazing performances both in terms of raw computational
power and battery life. What bugs me is that iPhone SE got thinner... WHY?!
Why Apple didn't fill that space that saved by battery... Nobody would say,
HEY CHANGE IT! _Never enough battery power_

~~~
lis
If the battery lasts 1.5 days, people have to start charging their phones in
the middle of the day - which is usually a bad time and a huge inconvenience.
If you have to charge it every day, you don't notice it, if the battery runs
out in your lunch break, you will curse Apple for the bad battery life.

In contrast, if you charge your phone daily anyway, you don't gain anything by
0.5 days of added battery life.

~~~
goerz
Except that when they claim 1 day battery power, it's actually at most 0.5
days, with slightly above average usage or after the phone has aged a year.
I'd love to have something that's designed for 1.5 days, so that I could
actually get a full day out of it!

------
fiatpandas
As a stubborn iPhone 4 user, I was excited for this press conference because
of the return to a smaller form factor. I'm not sure the SE is going to push
me over the edge just yet, despite the price.

Think I can hold out for a couple more months, just in case something amazing
happens with the 7.

~~~
giarc
You're using a 6 year old, 3.5 inch phone. 7 is going to be bigger than 5, 5S,
5SE, I would upgrade if I were you. Can iphone 4 even get iOS 9?

~~~
fiatpandas
Yes I understand 7 is going to be bigger than the 5S/SE size. I'm willing to
go bigger if there something really compelling about the 7, so I want to wait.

(and 4 is stuck on iOS 7)

~~~
giarc
What about the SE doesn't appeal to you then?

~~~
sosborn
OP didn't say that the SE doesn't appeal to him/her, just that they prefer to
wait to see what the 7 brings.

~~~
giarc
I guess I assumed they weren't impressed with this statement "I'm not sure the
SE is going to push me over the edge just yet"

If the SE doesn't push you over the edge from an iPhone 4, then I don't know
what will... iPhone 28?

------
jedp
Sweet, but it's always risky getting the first generation hardware. I'm
holding out for the iPhone SE/30.

~~~
pcurve
beige plastic would seal the deal for me.

------
grandalf
I wonder if reverting to the iPhone 5 design indicates that the design of the
6 is viewed as a flop by Apple.

I've dropped my 6+ so many times that I love the design (it's indestructible)
but perhaps Apple's market research is showing that some people love the look
of their 5 and are avoiding upgrading for that reason.

~~~
ericabiz
Not indestructible at all--I run a repair shop, and 6/6+ are the most common
phones we repair. The bigger the screen, the easier it is to break, in
general.

You may have gotten lucky, or you may have a good case on it (a good case and
a glass screen protector do go a long way.) But we've had people bring in
phones even in very high-end Lifeproof cases with broken screens, bent frames,
etc. It happens a lot.

Apple launched this phone because of the huge number of iPhone 5/5S users who
didn't want to upgrade because they felt that the 6/6S was "too big." There
was a fairly large/high-demand secondary market for 5S phones for this reason.
Apple's hoping to pick up some of that market with the new SE.

~~~
grandalf
Hmm, no case on mine. I chose it b/c I thought it seemed lighter relative to
the area that shock would be disbursed over in impact.

~~~
ux-app
sounds like you've been lucky. my wife dropped her 6 onto concrete and the
front shattered into a million pieces.

------
savanaly
I'm still on the 5 and was reluctant to upgrade mainly due to the size. Might
consider this one when the 5 finally breaks down.

~~~
yeukhon
I used to be in your camp but honestly, after using iPhone 6 (not PLUS) I am
okay. I actually don't use my phone all the time. It is mainly sitting on my
desk or in my pocket on the go. My hand is not huge per se, just regular size,
like any grown up male in his 20s. Comparing to the old model with smaller
screen, the larger screen does increase read space which is quite pleasant.
Give it a try.

~~~
agildehaus
If you really want to use an iPhone 6 or 6 Plus with one hand, just double-tap
( _not_ press, tap) the home button and the software adjusts the display size
for you.

~~~
masklinn
Except IME it's not very good because (with a 6S) you have to hold the phone
very low to reach the home button comfortably enough for a double tap (which
is lower than extending a bit for a firm press), which makes the phone top-
heavy and much less hand-safe. I've dropped my 6S _a lot_ , I've probably
dropped it more in the few months I've had it than I dropped my 4S (at all)

I expect a Plus has an even worse hold and I wouldn't be able to use it
1-handed at all.

~~~
the_hangman
I'm not sure I follow. I just sat here with my 6S trying various ways of
holding it for a good 10 minutes, and I can't figure out for the life of me
what you're talking about when you say that you have to hold it lower to
double tap the home button than you do to firmly press it. If anything, I find
the exact opposite to be true: I need to support the bottom of the phone less
when I am simply double-tapping on the home button, while I need to have more
support towards the bottom of the phone if I want to firmly press it.

This seems to make sense, intuitively, as well: I'm applying way more pressure
to the bottom of the phone with a firm press of the home button than I do when
I lightly tap it, even if I have to tap it twice.

~~~
k-mcgrady
I think hand size is important to consider here. In order to reach the
majority of my 6S screen I have my hand close to the centre of the phone. If I
try to double tap the home button with my thumb it cannot reach unless I move
my hand further down which involves readjusting my entire grip and I often
come close to dropping the device.

------
boondaburrah
If they don't offer a (limited) model styled after the Mac SE, they're doing
it wrong.

~~~
strangecasts
Complete with the loud _BING_ as the startup sound?

~~~
duskwuff
Not to burst your bubble, but the sampled startup sounds didn't come until
after the SE. The SE just went _BEEEEEEEEEP_.

~~~
boondaburrah
Yeah but the beep had an envelope to it. There was definitely a strong attack
followed by a less-than-square wave rather than a uniform beep. Though whether
that was part of the sample (which the mac SE definitely could've played) or
an artifact of some analogue circuitry I don't know.

~~~
duskwuff
It was a software thing. Here's the story of how it came to be:

[http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Boot_Beep.txt](http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Boot_Beep.txt)

------
zorpner
Aww, no barometer in the SE:
[http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/](http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/)

~~~
gigq
This bummed me out as well, but it's worth noting if you have an Apple Watch
that has a barometer in it.

------
cm2187
I would buy it if there was a 128GB version. It's the only form factor that
works for me. I can't reach the whole of the screen with a single hand on the
6s and 6s plus.

~~~
aiabgold
You're probably already aware, but there's a nice feature on the 6s and 6s
plus which somewhat handles this: double touch the home button (without
pushing it down) and the screen moves down by half, leaving only the top half
of the screen visible. Makes it a lot easier to reach options located at the
top of the screen.

~~~
cm2187
I actually am aware, but that doesn't make up for not being able to reach the
whole screen, not even close.

------
pmontra
They say it has the same general dimensions of the iPhone 5s from 2013. I
quote two specs of that phone (source Wikipedia)

Dimensions 123.8 x 58.6 x 7.6 mm (4.87 x 2.31 x 0.30 in)

Weight 112 g (3.95 oz)

I'm about to buy a new Android phone (or an iPhone SE if I could flash Android
on it :-) ) and the problem is that there are only mid (few) and low range
(many) phones with that size and weight. Hopefully the SE will sell well and
in a year Samsung and the like will start selling again something with the
size of a Galaxy S2 which was their flagship in 2011 - a few months before the
iPhone 4s. Apple is proving that you can do it with modern chips and modern
amounts of RAM and storage. What's closest to that in the Android world now
are Samsung's A3 and Alpha and the Sony Z5 Compact, but they're not really
there on all specs.

If you haven't guessed it yet, I really don't care about the size of the
screen, I care more about the dimensions and weight: I've got a tablet and a
PC at home when I need a large screen, I want something small and light for
when I'm outside.

I'm still looking forward to something like this
[http://www.yankodesign.com/2012/01/20/not-a-pamphlet-its-
a-s...](http://www.yankodesign.com/2012/01/20/not-a-pamphlet-its-a-
smartphone/) or the more realistic [http://phandroid.com/2016/01/08/samsung-
might-launch-its-fol...](http://phandroid.com/2016/01/08/samsung-might-launch-
its-foldable-smartphone-this-year-according-analysts/)

------
blinkingled
I haven't looked at an iPhone in a while but doesn't the SE look a lot thicker
than people would like in 2016? Is that because of bigger battery or Apple
wanted to differentiate on thickness?

It's good to see they are making a $399 model available - but I am not sure it
had to be this small and this thick. A 1080p 4.7" model would have been the
sweet spot at this price point.

~~~
ant6n
Vanilla Iphone 6 has 4.7inch albeit higher resolution.

~~~
blinkingled
Oh, ok. I guess even for the sake of differentiation lot of people would have
still loved a 4.5" 1080 on SE - at least it covers a larger audience.

------
maxaf
The 16GB storage size is a deal breaker. :( Going to stay on the 4S, see how
things pan out later on.

~~~
giarc
There is a 64GB model.

~~~
maxaf
It isn't competitively priced. The 32G used to be a sweet spot I could go for,
but it's gone now.

~~~
giarc
Why not upgrade to a 5 or 5S now though? The 4S is quite a ways behind, and
with the 5 and even the 5S being out for so long, you could get some great
deals.

~~~
maxaf
It all comes down to AppleCare: I don't want to own an aftermarket phone that
isn't covered for damage by anything other than my own wallet. The 5/5S can
only remain a viable option for me if they're sold directly by Apple & allow
me to purchase AppleCare. Anything less means I take on the risk of having to
keep repairing/replacing the phone every time it breaks. Unfortunately, this
happens far too often.

~~~
1123581321
I think your math is a bit off. A refurb or MNVO 5S costs about $200 right
now. AppleCare costs $99 + $79/replacement up to two on top of the phone. So,
if Apple sold you a new 5S for $250, you'd pay $349 for it, $428 if you had to
replace it, and $507 if you had to replace it twice. Replacing once sounds
nearly breakeven until you factor that the price of a refurb 5S will continue
to fall but the deductible on your replacement will stay fixed.

Two breaks would still justify AppleCare, but the odds are pretty low.

I understand if you just greatly value getting service from Apple and want to
pay for that privilege, but if you won't buy a 5S only because it's risky,
then you should reconsider.

~~~
maxaf
The last 5S I've owned got replaced five (5) times. I'm not joking! Every
apple device I've owned since my first PowerBook G4 in 2003 completely
justified the purchase of AppleCare.

~~~
1123581321
Wow, okay! You are in a special class; I think my math does apply to the
normal curve. :) Isn't that more replacements than AppleCare allows for one
policy?

~~~
maxaf
I wasn't aware of a specific limit. Those were very legit "QA lapses" (to
quote one Apple genius). I had three iPhone screens separate from the housing
despite never having been dropped, and two other iPhones lost all cellular
connectivity. I diligently collected data points and such until another genius
told me to LOL forget it, and replaced the phone.

------
meritt
Hey, an upgrade path for the 5s form-factor. I'm actually liking this
announcement. The absurd size has been why I've avoided 6.

------
hellofunk
This really good news. My iPhone 4S has never had a case on it and is still in
like-new condition after close to 5 years. Those were built like little tanks,
and this SE appears to have the same body. Great news. I like a phone that
fits in a pocket easily and these monsters they've made since just aren't for
a lot of people. Yay for the SE.

------
jdc0589
I immediately thought "Secure Edition" when I read the title...

~~~
yeukhon
I read it special edition like motherboard / slimmed edition. Usually SE is a
trimmed down edition...

~~~
roymurdock
Or "Standard Edition" ala Java SE...really not doing themselves any favors
with the ambiguous, expanded naming conventions here.

~~~
ben174
Or "Second Edition" ala Windows 98 SE.

~~~
salgernon
Or "system expansion" as in the Mac SE which followed the Mac Plus with an
internal hard drive and developer accessible bus. (It was followed by the
SE/30 which was a great machine. Things went downhill in naming from there.)

------
nodesocket
The market is not impressed with the announcements so far.

[http://i.imgur.com/IfkUcJ9.png](http://i.imgur.com/IfkUcJ9.png)

~~~
ikeboy
"Buy the Rumor and Sell the News"

[http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/news-
trader.asp](http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/news-trader.asp)

Not uncommon.

------
downandout
I know they don't talk about RAM and we won't find out until after release,
but I wonder if this has 1GB or 2.

~~~
mratzloff
Looks like it's still 1 GB according to a leak from a few days ago.

[http://www.besttechguru.com/apple-iphone-se-retail-box-
image...](http://www.besttechguru.com/apple-iphone-se-retail-box-image-leaked-
confirms-1gb-ram-and-a9-cpu/)

Too bad; I would love to have a smaller form factor than my 6S. I waited for
awhile to upgrade from my 4S to see if they would introduce something like
this, but with ad-cluttered pages, web browsing can be really painful on 1 GB.

~~~
downandout
Yeah, that's about the only reason I wouldn't buy this thing. I hate 3D touch
so the fact that it's missing isn't a concern to me, but the missing ram is a
huge problem.

------
whizzkid
I think it is one of the first times Apple couldn't bring the best out of a
specific technology/concept.

As you can see from very beginning, Apple most of the time took an existing
technology/concept, made it better and made it so user-friendly, usable, and
simple that it always took off and became a standard. People loved it. Look at
touch screen phones, tablets, buying music online, beautiful keyboard design
(mac) and etc.

With forced touch technology, even though it really is promising and advanced,
Apple's user base did not really consider it as a key feature yet. It has been
some time and you don't feel like you are missing something if you don't have
it.

I guess we will see with the iPhone SE if Apple thinks the same way. They may
still think that it is an essential technology and put their time on it and I
believe forced touch will be great if they continue working on it.

------
arthurcolle
You guys are crazy. 3D Touch actually makes a screen full of apps useful.
Instead of needing to have a million folders that I classify by behavior I can
just have apps sprawled across a few screens and then apply a little more
force on the app and then get a few actions that are related to the app.

I'm actually shocked that I'm seeing such a Luddite response to something
that's objectively better. I agree that the software needs improvement (for
example, what makecheck says about deleting apps) and there are a few things
that are kind of stupid. For example, one can't move a full window of apps as
you can with Android without moving each individual app (which is pretty
ridiculous). Apple definitely seems to be falling behind but 3D Touch is a
great, solid feature. It was a mistake for them to omit it from this model.

------
ubasu
I couldn't identify all the car company logos. Specifically, in 1-based (row,
column) format:

(1,3), (3,2), (3,6), (4,4), (4,6), (4,7), (5,9)

Can people please chime in with the correct identifications?

(There seems to be a logo behind the speaker, which I am not counting)

~~~
ubasu
Never mind, found them all here:

[http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/available-
models/](http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/available-models/)

------
siliconviking
Just wanted to make sure I got the dates right -- today isn't April 1 right?

------
hkmurakami
I was really really hoping for the 5c plastic body. It was great being able to
drop the phone and not have to worry about the screen shattering on the vast
majority of drops.

------
imranq
Why are we still using the same designs / ideas approved by Steve Jobs in
2016? Its been 5 years and the new iPhones look almost exactly the same as the
old ones - aside from some obvious local optimizations like processing speed
and screen quality. It would be great to see something different come out of
Apple, but right now it seems like the company is scared of coming out with
anything truly revolutionary.

------
chrisBob
What does SE mean?

~~~
strictnein
According to their presentation, it apparently somehow meant "China Edition".

~~~
nerfhammer
Sino Edition?

------
zimbatm
UK prices are crazy.

The entry price model is £359 which is $516 USD instead of $399. The 64GB one
is £439 which is $631 USD instead of $499.

So in short $100+ for shipping.

[http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se/16gb-
silve...](http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se/16gb-silver)

~~~
TheTrotters
VAT is included in the list price, the sales tax is not. Excluding the VAT,
the UK price is ~300 GBP, which is roughly 430 USD. All we have is ~30 USD
difference.

------
rjurney
I drop my iPhone 6, but never dropped my iPhone 4. They've gotten too big to
hold, I'll be buying one of these.

------
altitudinous
A great play by Apple for growth in developing markets. Not so flash
elsewhere, don't judge by your own standards.

Clearly only low on device capacity to keep a low price point (No 3D touch -
same reason). Capacity on board device is not really necessary anyway - thats
the reason that Apple have been developing the iCloud.

------
BinaryIdiot
No 3D touch shows you how important Apple views it. It adds a level of
inconsistency amongst their phones meaning developers can never depend on it
which means it'll likely get used less and less.

Oh well it was a neat idea but adding multiple dimensions to a 2D screen
always seemed kinda awkward to me.

------
sengork
So much for tech specs page, it doesn't list the battery capacity. Does anyone
know how many mAh it is?

------
c-slice
Why the exact same shape as the iPhone 5S? I feel like a significant reason
people buy new iPhones is the idea that people will notice you have the newest
model. With SE, it will just appear like you have an out of date iPhone 5. Why
not round the edges like the iPhone 6?

~~~
x1024
Wut... Because the iPhone 5S had great design?

Contrary to the popular meme, not all people buy Apple because they're shallow
appearance-obsessed hipsters.

~~~
mortenjorck
I'd even call this a statement of confidence in the longevity of Apple's own
industrial design. There's a clear implication that Apple's design doesn't
date easily.

------
coetry
Just in time! My iPhone 6 just broke and its about time to get a new one. I
have no problems going back to a smaller phone if it still carries the class
and power of the phones that have recently come out. Not to mention the price
makes me happy as well :)

------
jtouri
I always liked the smaller size compared to the bigger ones. Kind of happy
about it.

------
manuelflara
Weird they didn't call this the iPhone 6S Mini, but I'll be getting one.
Downgraded from an iPhone 6S to a 5S because the big screen is hard to use
with one hand, so I'm ecstatic they released this.

------
muterad_murilax
I just noticed that the domain iphone.se is up for sale. (I'm not affiliated.)

More info: [http://www.iphone.se/till-salu](http://www.iphone.se/till-salu)
(Swedish)

------
gbog
I found 7 occurences of sentences starting with "And", it seems a bit too much
to my ears. Having one or two may add some weight to something important, but
if everything is important, nothing is.

------
wintorez
I'm excited about this phone, especially the screen size. Not having 3D touch
is not a deal breaker for me. I'm going to buy it as soon as it becomes
available.

------
erickhill
This phone's naming convention (which at least seems better than the confusing
iPad names: mini, Air 2, Pro, Pro) brings back fond memories of the Mac SE.

~~~
sotojuan
That said, I think Apple has too many devices now. I remember reading the book
"Insanely Simple", in which the author lauded how simple Apple's lineup was.
While it's not too confusing, it's definitely going in that direction.

Of course, I am being hypocritical. The 5s is my favorite iPhone, so this new
product is what I wanted all along.

~~~
erickhill
To think that for an instant a thought might have crossed a product manager's
mind to call the new iPad the Apple iPad Air 2 Pro mini (or nano).

------
csomar
$399 for the 16GB version? Seems pretty affordable to me. So instead of buying
a used iPhone you can get a new one for the same amount of $$.

------
kingnight
What is going on with Apple's HealthKit UI. Right now they are showing two
different UI's:

NEW?: [http://www.apple.com/researchkit/](http://www.apple.com/researchkit/)

NEW in 9.3:
[http://www.apple.com/ios/updates/](http://www.apple.com/ios/updates/)

The NEW in 9.3 is a big step back IMO from all previous versions' widgets that
had line graphs; the NEW in the researchkit page looks like a reasonable
improvement...

------
klunger
Meanwhile, did anyone else find it hilarious that _folders_ were pointed out
as one of the great new feature upgrades for Apple TV?

------
pgz
WTF. €609 in Europe vs $499 in the US for the 64GB model.

I will not let them get away with this pricing model. Keeping my trusted Nokia
2700 :)

~~~
rsneekes
US price is $499 for 64GB, but that's without tax. NL price is €588 inc 21%
VAT.

------
AngryFromPurley
We'll put this deck chair over here, and that one over there.

There's no way this ship sinks now, the Titanic is truly unsinkable.

------
lowlevel
I have no reason to suspect this isn't the case, but does anyone know if the
iPhone SE has the same glass as the 6s?

------
rythie
I wonder if this will get updated in September with the other phones or stay
out of step with the main release cycle.

------
abledon
Would the Wifi power/signal strength be stronger or weaker than that of the
similarly sized iPhone4?

------
ourmandave
The Siri example says, "Hey Siri, remind me about this when I get in my car."

Does it only work with an iCar?

------
jason46
At first I thought this was Security Enhanced, its not right?

Retina flash must be the gotta have feature

~~~
jasondecastro
More like Second Edition?

------
ljk
6-7inch screens are getting too big but 4-inch is a little too small imo...

~~~
jonknee
Well then you should love the iPhone 6s with its 4.7" display.

~~~
kylec
It's like different people prefer different size phones or something

------
alessioalex
I know my iPhone 5c cannot use the ads blocking feature. Can this one?

~~~
jkirsteins
It should. Content blocking extensions are compatible with A7+, and the SE
model has A9.

~~~
alessioalex
Thank you!

------
hathym
SE -> Still Expensive

------
danieltillett
Any news on security?

~~~
jMyles
Yeah, I'm surprised that amidst all the kerfuffle that they aren't touting the
security features.

------
lolive
My iphone 5 and ipad Air are renewed for another season.

------
stephenitis
Did they exclude battery life from the presentation?

~~~
skrause
No, I saw it in the presentation, but the slide was only shown for a very
short time.

------
bliti
Anybody have any data on pricing?

 _Edit_

From Techcrunch's post:

 _The iPhone SE will come in two models, 16GB and 64GB, priced at $399 and
$499 respectively._

Kinda expensive for device that does not feature an SD card slot. :(

~~~
giarc
No iPhones have ever had an SD card slot. So you are comparing iPhones to
phones made by other companies with other operating systems.

~~~
bliti
Yes, you are right. Although given how phones are now pocket computers I
expect them to have additional storage options that are not cloud based. I
find it that paying $500 for a device that does not allow additional physical
storage is absurd. Given how good of a camera it seems to have.

~~~
giarc
The problem is that if you add an SD card slot, you have to eliminate
something else (or decrease something else).

I feel that between cloud services and 64gb+ phones, I wouldn't want an SD
card slot. Accessing files on an external storage device is slow, so I
wouldn't want to save direct to SD. You wouldn't want to save any apps to the
SD for speed issues. So you would be limited to accessing photos and music. I
just don't see a need for it, and if I did, there are plenty of android phones
out there that would allow me expansion for storage.

~~~
bliti
Good points. I feel that we are discussing the same issue from two different
sides. You are OK with an iPhone device that does not have expandable physical
storage and I am not. I do want an iPhone (even though I develop for Android)
but that keeps me away. :)

------
amai
For the rest of the world: 4 inch = 10.16 cm

------
eddd
New iPhone compared to a model from 2013, apple you can do better than that.
It is going be 4inch, but how thin? Same as 6s, don't think so...

------
senorgusto
Ugh... Apple is so boring these days.

------
curo
I need a banana for comparison.

------
tdsamardzhiev
At first I got really hyped, but then.. "Non-removable Li-Po 1642 mAh battery"
Ugh. Come on, Apple!

------
metheus
I'm perplexed by all the suggestions that 3D touch is a misstep. Arguments
center around it being useless, hard to discover, or a source of platform
fragmentation and therefore confusion.

1) "3D touch is useless."

3D touch adds a new affordance to interacting with screen elements. Perhaps
you do not use 3D touch, perhaps applications have not yet incorporated the
feature in a compelling way, but 3D touch is no more useless than analog
pressure sensitivity in game controller buttons. I would be shocked if driving
games available for iOS didn't adopt pressure sensitive accelerator features
this year. Ditto drawing apps; Pixelmator has already added support.

Additionally, 3D touch means that interactions that previously had to depend
on introducing latency (long-press) can now happen more quickly. 3D touch also
promises a high degree of real-time feedback to a user, for example in the
case of peek and pop.

Application shortcuts are also very convenient and hold even more promise as
apps become more powerful and complex, and if anything serve to highlight that
Apple needs to improve the springboard environment.

2) "3D touch suffers from poor discoverability."

I agree somewhat, but it doesn't make the feature bad. There is room for
improvement here, and hidden features can still be good features. The solution
is to improve the extent to which the elements embody press-ability.

My guess is that future iOS versions will incorporate more visual cues for the
interface elements that afford 3D interaction. Consider, for example, how the
lock screen camera icon bounces when you tap on it -- suggesting that it
should be swiped up (IIRC it used to launch the camera when you tapped on it).
At the moment it's pure conjecture, but, just to toss out some ideas, elements
could appear to depress slightly when touched normally, or be given a (very)
minor 3D treatment... or down the line, haptic feedback could simulate texture
(see [http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=H...](http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-
adv.html&r=17&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=\(345%2F173.CCLS.+AND+20150423.PD.\)&OS=ccl/345/173+and+pd/4/23/2015&RS=\(CCL/345/173+AND+PD/20150423\)))

(Are any 'discoverability' critics emacs users?)

3\. "3D Touch is confusing because some hardware supports it and some do not."

Other people have already argued very effectively against this point. Also...

Some mice have more mouse buttons than others. Some iPhones have processors
that support power-free "Hey Siri". Some cars have built-in GPS. In general,
people are not confused by higher cost/prestige features being absent from
some models of a product.

------
mpweiher
I was hoping (against hope) for an @3 display. Sniff.

~~~
tracker1
I wouldn't mind something closer to the Nokia E70 (loved that phone), with a
syncing to my google account for docs, keep and contacts, a modern camera and
not much else. Yes, I use my phone for a lot more, but that's almost as much a
bad thing as good

The E70 was my last not-smart-phone, replaced it with the original G1 (first
android phone). It was great for taking notes, and imho was a better form
factor than blackberry.

------
bigmattystyles
Made especially for Trump sized hands!

~~~
BocceBaal
He threatened a boycott. Apple has to do something.

------
iKenshu
Why SE?

------
ps4fanboy
The slow march to phone commoditization continues. There are only so many
"hardware" features a phone can get, incremental spec upgrades each year
really wont excite people and value shopping will slowly become the norm. This
isnt a good trend for apple.

------
colincarter41
The A9 chip is at the core of this smaller iPhone, which gives it the same
power as iPhone 6s. It brings impressive responsiveness and speed with its
64-bit desktop-class architecture.

iPhone SE has clearly merged the best of both worlds by merging the features
of iPhone 6s and the beloved design of iPhone 5s, that too at a lot cheaper
price.

------
ousta
as usual nothing that sony didnt do first and apple copied. with an hipster
marketing behind.

------
acidfreaks
Great Price, great specs. Really loving the SE so far. I can't wait to put my
hands on the device. I thought this was smaller in size but really is the same
as 5S

~~~
alexgrist
It's the same size.

------
jamisteven
399??! L M A O

------
alpb
The name is strikingly similar to Windows 98 SE (second edition).

~~~
devindotcom
Or Apple's own Macintosh SE

~~~
philwelch
I was about to joke that I was going to hold out for the iPhone SE/30.

------
dosshell
>With 64‑bit desktop-class architecture

Desktop-class architecture!? What do they really mean? For me desktop
architecture is x86-64...

------
dave2000
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11329939](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11329939)

------
huhtenberg
Now if they ditch the flat UI nonsense and back to the original look & feel,
they may actually see me upgrade from the best iPhone ever made - the iPhone
4.

~~~
AlexandrB
iPhone4 is still my favourite phone in terms of feel. Dense and substantial in
the hand.

~~~
mariodiana
I had my iPhone 4 for three years and dropped it not once. I'm used to my 5s
now, and appreciate the bigger screen, but I agree with you. The 4-inch screen
is a trade-off. I'll admit to preferring it, but the form factor of the iPhone
4 was superior in terms of hand feel.

------
wolfhammer
I don't like the touch id and touch pay that they're pushing. Fingerprint
scanners everyone is probably not a good thing. I'm sure they're all going to
end up in a database somewhere.

~~~
josefdlange
Your failure to research the feelings behind this statement is obvious.
Fingerprints on an iOS device are stored in the Secure Enclave, a hardware
module on the device itself, used for checking fingerprints, answering yes or
no to the question "is this the user's fingerprint?"

As for Apple Pay, your card details are used once -- exactly once -- to
generate an obfuscated alias card identifier, again, only useable by the
device.

There is no database. Fingerprint data doesn't leave the phone. No one stores
your credit card details.

[https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf](https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf)

Research before writing.

~~~
wolfhammer
It seems dangerous to have the scanner on the device and I don't trust it to
be safe. It's the print I'm concerned with not the hashes and crypto that
connect you to payment. This is something enticing to authorities and I'm sure
they'll want to figure out how to get it.

~~~
r00fus
Well, getting the actual fingerprint is probably like getting the original
message out of a hash function...

So they can want all day, at the end, entropy wins (by design in this case).

------
qwertyuiop924
Note how they say, "A beloved design," not, "The S5 design." Whenever a
company is not detailing what their customers already know in order to
emphasize that their devices are SO good that they're revisiting the old
design, it's to avoid saying, "We fucked up."

------
jokoon
I still don't understand how people can spend so much money on a small device
like this. I guess I'm not so much on the move, but to me, $200 is the most I
would spend on such device format. I have a $60 Huawei, and yes it's not the
best android, but I'll always think that software should be adapted to take
less cycles, instead of just having a umpf-ier CPU. HTML is a good example of
that. There should be HTML formats that are optimized for smartphones, like
preparsed HTML.

Maybe expensive patents will expire soon, which might make smartphones cheaper
and cheaper, but still.

~~~
mrweasel
>I still don't understand how people can spend so much money on a small device
like this

I don't think the size is really relevant, but yeah, that's an insane amount
of money. If you need it for work, and generally use your phone a lot, it can
make sense to pay a premium for a better device, but for the average person, I
can't see it being justified. The marked penetration of the iPhone is way to
high compared to the price, suggesting to me that to many people are spending
their money recklessly.

~~~
yborg
>This device is not at my price point, therefore those that buy it are
spending their money recklessly

It is possible that others have more money than you do.

------
mojuba
> _The only camera you’ll ever need._

Apple, you are usually good at slogans and titles, but this one... At least
three flops in one sentence:

"The only camera" \- so no more Canons, Nikons and Leikas? "...you'll ever" \-
so there will be no more innovation ever, even from you, Apple? "...need" \-
so you are confident everyone needs a camera?

~~~
sotojuan
The average consumer doesn't need a Canon, Nikon, or Leica (definitely not a
Leica!) for everyday photography. The iPhone is "good enough".

Of course, it's a middle/upper middle class tradition to get your teen a DSLR
but as we all know the end up using the iPhone more.

~~~
mojuba
I thought Apple wasn't quite for "average consumers" though.

Again, I used to bring Apple as an example of good, minimum-BS, no
exaggerations, well though out marketing. "Your iPhone is beautiful. Give it a
complement." Nice, to the point, with a neat pun (complement, as in
accessories).

The phrase about the camera is awful. I don't know why I'm getting downvoted
so much.

