
Organism without a brain creates external memories for navigation - kqr2
http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/10/organism-without-a-brain-creates-external-memories-for-navigation/
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pawelwentpawel
Here is an interesting video from BBC on how slime mold recreates the tokyo
railroad plan and solves mazes -
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAxrpzc6ws&feature=playe...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNAxrpzc6ws&feature=player_detailpage#t=3826s)

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void-star
A great... and totally revolting documentary. I'm equal parts fascinated and
queasy watching this. (edit: i mean all the way through)

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silvio
The mechanism described in the article, that slime mold uses slime to mark an
area as it is exploring it to avoid exploring it again on a later pass, eerily
reminds me of graph traversal algorithms.

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qbrass
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3970427> Using A Slime-Mold To Calculate
Minimum Spanning Trees

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netcan
I'm not exactly sure how to phrase this question:

Are there any / what are the best examples of concurrent evolution of
intelligence? What do we know about

For example, I know that Cephalopods like octopi seem to have developed a high
level of intelligence despite being far removed (>500m years) from other known
intelligent animals (mostly vertebrates). This shows us how a less centralized
nervous system can produce "intelligence".

What do we know out the origins/early appearances of things like memory,
reflexes, instincts…? Was it something like this slime stuff? Are there
multiple implementations out there? Are they fundamentally limited or did our
just happen to "advance" the most.

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GauntletWizard
I think it's only a matter of time before we prove slime-molds to be turing-
complete.

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waivej
One of these crawled out of our compost bucket through the foam filter and
onto the ground. It took about three days and the slime trail would dry over
time so it really moved. I was fascinated and a little unnerved by it. It
looked intelligent yet able to separate and reform.

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Groxx
tl;dr: it's a slime mold which avoids spreading where it has already spread
(which are 'slimed' - a chemical marker, at the very least).

That might be stretching "external memories" a bit far, for hype's sake. Not
that slime molds aren't fascinating, but what's with the hyperbolic word
choices?

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kevingadd
I think "external memories" is a reasonable term for this. If you treat it as
an analogue to the computer science definition of memory - a place to store
information - then it's a pretty decent way of describing what's happening
here.

I suppose the fact that the information is being stored _at_ the location it
describes, instead of in a central location, makes it a bit weird?

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Groxx
I'd be willing to bet the mold grows generally away from the most-dense areas
(say, the interior of a glob). This makes sense energy wise - would you also
call that "remembering" where it was?

Similarly, many plants "lean" to point towards the sun. Are they "remembering"
where the sun is with the increased growth on the far side?

You can (successfully) argue that it _can_ be an accurate description. It is.
I would argue that it's deliberately choosing words that invoke more interest
(be it scientific or "OMGWHAT") than accuracy.

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jmmcd
> Similarly, many plants "lean" to point towards the sun. Are they
> "remembering" where the sun is with the increased growth on the far side?

If they had _put the sun there first_ , then yeah, that would be external
memory. That's the difference.

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Groxx
No, plants which do this generally grow less on the sunny side of their stalk.
They are putting more / larger cells on the far side, as a form of memory. A
crude counting system, if you will - when side A > side B, side B is where the
sun is. Arguably this is even more complex than a mere external memory system
- it deals in continuous ratios, rather than booleans!

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jmmcd
Hmm. If you're just talking about the extra growth, then that's not even
external. I don't think it's a good example.

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Groxx
Not of an external memory system, no. This would be internal. But would you
call it "an internal memory system", or "decreased growth in reaction to
sunlight"?

Another option: (micro-)evolution. Is an amoeba's resistance to a chemical
"memory", or an environment-selected random mutation? Again, technically it
can be viewed as memory, but it's diluting the term so far as to make it a
catch-all for any kind of information, ever, to get someone to click on a
link.

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jmmcd
> But would you call it "an internal memory system"

Well, it's not being used later on to make decisions, is it?

I suppose I will go with that for my definition of memory: the agent makes a
change to the state of the world (external) or to its own state (internal) and
that change later affects its action.

Using that definition, my answer re the amoeba is yes.

I can see why it seems too broad. But I don't know a better definition. I
suppose one could stipulate that consciousness is required. But I don't think
that would be a standard position.

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Groxx
> _Well, it's not being used later on to make decisions, is it?_

No, you have a point there. I missed that part. Though I _just_ realized your
new definition implies this: a river has memory.

To each their own :) I'll still call it too broad, but that's pure opinion.

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jmmcd
> a river has memory

Nice point... well, I'm all ears for a better definition :)

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gojomo
Self-stigmergy?

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy>

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adjwilli
I can't wait to read a sci-fi story about advanced and perhaps sentient slime
molds taking over the universe.

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daralthus
The Blob (1958) <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051418/>

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ktizo
This is more or less how I find my way around in the morning. The only major
difference is that I generally use coffee-spills and biscuits as location
markers, instead of slime.

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cmccabe
_Organism without a brain creates external memories for navigation_

A manager downloaded a TODO list app?

