

Ask HN: Will working on my own hurt my career? - kjackson

I'm an experienced programmer (10+ years) that loves programming and technology.  However, I'm pretty burnt out at my own job, and I'm learning nothing new.  It's not a bad job or bad company, but I don't think it's the right fit for me anymore.  What's even worse is that I'm left with no time to learn new technology because of the hours, commute, etc.  I've spent some time on weekends and after work learning on my own (iPhone programming, MongoDB) but I really want to do a deep dive and a fresh start.<p>I'm thinking of taking 6-9 months off, and developing and releasing 3-4 iPhone apps (I already have them planned out) including the corresponding backend, and in the process learning Python, GAE, Java, web programming concepts, NoSQL databases (like Cassandra), etc.  Also, I plan on contributing to open source projects in terms of bug fixing, etc.<p>Will this hurt my career?  Or will it look respectable, as long as I have actually released products, etc?
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retroafroman
Assuming that you're worried this "time off" won't look to good to future
potential employers, I think you've got the wrong attitude. People will have
different opinions on it, but my advice would be to create a business entity
for these projects, then just list and talk about your employment/operation of
a business like any other work experience. Don't frame it to potential
employers or others as "taking time off"; you're not taking time off to screw
around, you're going to be working. It's productive business time, tell it
like it is. You don't have to call it a start up, but after the fact, if you'd
like to get back into the BigCo world, say you spent a few years running your
own development shop for the experience.

Along with setting up a business, make a website and run a blog with it.
Highlight the products you release, and give anyone who searches your past a
clear idea that you were being productive and successfully managing a small
business. Keeping it looking respectable is all about how you frame it and
portray it.

~~~
kjackson
Thanks, this is great advice! I will absolutely do this, not because I want to
deceive people, but because I do want to turn this into a real business. If I
structure this as a real business, then it puts my head in the right place as
well.

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patio11
We are privileged to work in, quite possibly, the best industry in the world
to have a short blank space in one's resume. No place where you would want to
work will ding you for "I wanted a new challenge so I took a sabbatical after
leaving my old job and spent some time experimenting with new technologies.
Want to talk about what I learned?"

~~~
bitsweet
I agree that for most companies, it should only make you a more attractive
candidate. On the other hand I have found that learning new tech void of
solving a real-world problem can only get you so far. My suggestion is to
focus on a real problem and use new technologies to solve it to gain the
exposure your looking for.

Once you've learned what you want to learn, contact me, we are always looking
to hire people that truly love programming.

~~~
kjackson
Thanks, for the reply!

Working on real problems is definitely my intent. I have background in
developing shrinkwrap enterprise applications, which I believe is a dead
industry going forward. I need to get experience in the way business is done
these days, which is web-scale backends dropped right on the internet, and
iphone/web front ends. My current job won't get me that experience, so I
figured that now is the best time to strike it on my own, and build the entire
infrastructure on my own and/or with my other programming friends. I'm
treating this as a real project, not just a hobby, and my milestones involve
releasing working, quality products, so I agree that solving a real world
problem will get me the best experience.

Thanks again for your reply!

~~~
keeptrying
If you ship and it works then I think you'll be fine.

Also if your burnt out you need a few weeks to just recuperate from crappy
job. So take a few weeks off first. It's very difficult to follow this advice
because I didn't do it either.but what ended up happening I just sat there
doing nothing at hone. So go ahead and take those 2 weeks off.

Also goto a Coworking Soave to work. Don't try to work at home. Again I know
now by experience :) ... It'll run you 300 in NYC.

Also choose your problem while you have your day job. Talk to customers. Again
this was something I didn't do. It's very time consuming because people flake
a lot. And doing this not as easy as it sounds.

If you do these 4 things you will be well on your way and those 4 things
should save you about 1,5 months of learning.

Best of luck. My email is in my profile. If your interested in travel apps or
the publishing industry we should talk.

------
bigsassy
I'm just wrapping up what you're about to start.

I'm also an experienced programmer (7+ years). I left to do my own thing for 9
months, and the venture ended without success. But what I built was
interesting, and I made sure to give talks at local meetups to put my face out
there during those 9 months.

When I needed to find consulting work, I cold called (emailed) someone at a
major US newspaper (a big one) asking if they needed work, explaining what I'd
been up to. They were impressed and hired me shortly after. And when I quotes
a rate which more than doubled my previous pay (which was nothing to sneeze
at) they accepted.

So go for it, but take my advice and get your face out there while you do it.
Speak at meetups, write blog posts, and get noticed.

It will shock you how much it can help your career.

~~~
kjackson
Awesome! Thanks, this is just the kind of things I was hoping to hear!

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ForrestN
I agree with the others, one of the nice things about tech is that you can
more easily afford to do this kind of thing than in other fields. One thing I
would say, though, by way of advice: definitely try to complete projects as
opposed to starting lots of them. I'm sure this goes without saying, but it
would be a lot more compelling if you can say "I took some time off and made
these cool things" rather than "I took some time off and started all these
cool things", if that makes sense.

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jwcacces
If you have to ask, the you're not ready.

Quitting your job and striking out alone has to be the kind of decision that
comes from passion. Yes, you have to be ready technically and financially.
You'll need a plan for food, shelter, the internet, and the support from your
friends and family.

But all that's got to play second fiddle, a distant background, to that
burning need to create. The desire to meld a future in your own hands, that
consuming passion that blots out all the worries of consequences and
obliterates apprehension with just the pure possibility of what could be made.

Don't get me wrong, have a plan. But if you're not driven mad by the incessant
need to let the fruits of your mind explode out of your fingertips, if
thoughts of your future, your career, what ifs, and what nots are still
around, rotting at the foundation of your desires, then you're just not ready.

You will need that passion to survive on your own. It will be difficult.
You'll have tough times, worries from your family, and worries from yourself.
The self doubt can at times be a terrible burden, but the demon in your mind
demands to be satisfied, and it will have it's way. You must hand yourself
over to it and it will drag you to success. But only if you can give yourself
fully.

In short, you don't take time off to do something because it will be a good
move for your next paying job. You take time off to give yourself over to your
passions. You've only held a paying job this long so you can become that
junkie and still live.

(It's how I get by)

Oh, and if you fail, the experience will only make you stronger.

~~~
polyfractal
I think this is entirely the wrong attitude. He isn't trying to build a
million dollar startup and live on ramen for six years.

There are two types of "quitting your job". The first type quits because he
wants to build a startup, or be self-employed in some capacity. The second
type quits because the job is stifling and not allowing new growth. It sounds
like the OP is type 2 - he wants to learn new skills.

Maybe he'll realize he loves self-employment; maybe he will pick up a new
salaried job after this exercise is over. Either way, I think your approach of
"Just be passionate man! Who cares about your career!" is shortsighted and
dangerous. If you let yourself be consumed by mindless passions, you'll end up
hopping from job to job, sucking down the cash before quitting again to throw
it away on some new idea.

In short, I think the OP's plan is logical and highly likely to succeed. He
will gain new skills and be able to use them for himself or for another
employer. Ignore this high octane, venture backed, live on ramen nonsense - it
doesn't really apply to your situation.

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medius
I actually changed industries (I was a semicondutor design engineer) for
learning new stuff in software. I was really worried if people will see this
sudden change and gap in my employment as a bad sign. But now I don't really
care what they might think. If I am learning new things and building
something, how can that ever be taken as a bad thing?

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ednc
I agree with the previous response. As long as you create a company around the
work (Even if it is just a good name and not a _real_ entity, it still sounds
better than "self-employed").

Get some apps (or GitHub contributions) out there during this time and you'll
be fine.

If I saw something like this on a candidates resume, I'd be impressed (and
jealous), and would probably spend most of the interview talking about these
projects and your motivation behind them. My only concern would be that you'd
leave in 6 months to go play with some new shiny technology our company was
not currently using. So you'd need to frame your answers to satisfy that
concern.

HTHs!

~~~
kjackson
Thanks! My previous work history is stable, but I definitely am not someone
who would jump around, but thanks for that insight, it will be something that
I keep in mind.

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katherinehague
To echo what others are saying, I don't think this will hurt your career, if
anything it should help and should give you the opportunity to meet new
people, start working on projects you are more passionate about, and gain new
skills. All making you much more 'employable' I would say.

But more importantly I think I'd ask myself, if not now, when? I have a
feeling its never going to get easier to go out on a limb, so the question is
more will you be happy looking back if you didn't give it a shot? Live a
little.

:)

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spaghetti
I did something very similar. Quit job that wasn't a good investment of my
time, created an iPhone app, ran out of savings, worked at another job that
was a decent investment of time, quit that job and created more iPhone apps,
and finally took an awesome job.

As long as you have products to show for that 6-9 month period then you're
good to go imo.

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rdouble
I've done this more than once, and each time got hired back at more
interesting jobs at a better rate. I'm not convinced it's the greatest way to
manage a career or a social life, but in my experience there was no other way
to find the time to learn new things.

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joss82
You might acquire some first class experience, while having a lot more fun
(and stress) than at your regular job.

As a bonus, you may even built some passive cash flow that will help you stay
financially secure.

Careers are overrated anyway.

------
Hisoka
Doing stuff by yourself whether it's a startup, consulting, side projects are
is very lonely. There's a lot of insecurity you will face, and the sad thing
is there will be very little people to commiserate with, unlike the corporate
world. Almost noone will understand the uncertainty you will face day-to-day.
Noone will fathom the heavy decisions you will need to make. Noone will be
there to give you the answers(although you can find mentors). If you will tell
people what you're going through, they'll just nod your head and then try to
change the subject to their boss, or American Idol. It's a very very lonely
road.

~~~
d_r
Something definitely has to be said about having the right environment. If
you're around people who are also doing hacking, this will help you immensely,
even if they're not working on the same projects as you.

