
Four States Are Sharing Driver's License Info to Help Find Out Who's a Citizen - erentz
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/14/890798378/south-dakota-is-sharing-drivers-license-info-to-help-find-out-who-s-a-citizen
======
oneplane
WHy do they not have a normal citizen identity like developed countries all
over the world? It's not like they don't want or need it, but now they are
taking an unreliable and costly route which ultimately gets a similar (but
substandard) result.

~~~
js2
Opposition to a national ID is one of the rare subjects on which the left and
right tend to agree, but for different reasons. Here's the ACLU's thoughts on
the matter:

[https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-
cards](https://www.aclu.org/other/5-problems-national-id-cards)

The NRA links to a few articles in opposition:

[https://www.nraila.org/articles/20020515/we-don-t-need-no-
st...](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20020515/we-don-t-need-no-stinkin-
national-id)

[https://www.nraila.org/articles/20041222/do-we-need-a-
nation...](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20041222/do-we-need-a-national-id-
card)

[https://www.nraila.org/articles/20020711/reviving-a-de-
facto...](https://www.nraila.org/articles/20020711/reviving-a-de-facto-
national-id)

Here's an opinion piece Fox News ran in opposition:

[https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-reasons-why-america-
should...](https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/5-reasons-why-america-should-steer-
clear-of-a-national-id-card)

~~~
jhanschoo
How does identification for federal services online work?

~~~
js2
Varies by service.

I can't login to the social security website to get my statements, so, not
very well in some cases. I locked myself out trying to prove my identity which
basically amounts to providing information from your credit report.

To unlock the account, I'll have to visit a social security office and they'll
apparently give me a one-time code. I haven't cared enough to go through the
pain of doing this yet.

------
motohagiography
We have this in Canada because health care is provincially funded, and
registered, but people have multiple residences across the country. Online
registration renewal services recently include geo-ip checks for whether you
are renewing your ID/cards from an IP address in the province. (give your
parents a heads up if this affects them, they should do their renewals when
they are in town.)

There is also the tax question of whether your house is your primary
residence, and when you sell it it's a question of whether you pay capital
gains on the sale based on whether you in fact live there or not. This is one
of those cases where technology meets policy.

------
gumby
I’m frankly astonished that “driving licenses” have so much info in them.

If I need to attest to my ability to drive (which is quite a reasonable thing
to require of people while they drive), all that is needed is photograph or
fingerprint, expiration date, class of qualification and any restriction (such
as glasses). None of the other info has anything to do with driving.

~~~
dragonwriter
Driver’s Licenses are effectively all-purpose state (or national, in the case
of REAL ID-compliant ones) ID documents with driving-related endorsements.

------
Rebelgecko
Is this data sharing a consequence of RealID, or were these requests made
independently of that?

~~~
toomuchtodo
This is independent of RealID and a consequence of the census department not
asking citizenship questions during the most recent 2020 census.

New York state declined, and is having Global Entry signups from that state
rejected by DHS [1].

Edit: @crooked-v: Agreed, the administration found a straightforward way to
the data other than via the census dept (it boggles the mind that people
thought the federal government wouldn’t or couldn’t aggregate this data,
remember when they withheld federal highway dollars to extort states into
raising the drinking age?). Throttled by HN, can’t reply directly to your
comment.

[1] [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/us/politics/dhs-new-
york-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/us/politics/dhs-new-york-global-
entry.html)

~~~
crooked-v
> a consequence of the census department not asking citizenship questions

The purpose of the US Census has never been to determine citizenship. It's
also fundamentally useless for that purpose, as not only is it entirely self-
reported data, but it also cannot legally be accessed by other parts of the
government until 72 years after that census is taken.

~~~
minerjoe
"Legally"

But the power stucture doesn't seem to care very much about law.

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/04/03/secret-
use-of-census-info-helped-send-japanese-americans-to-internment-camps-in-
wwii/)

------
stjohnswarts
That's just great, when does Trump send out his secret police to have them
removed from Trumphistan?

------
gumby
I rarely carry any ID as it seems offensive to have to justify my existence.
People who ask for ID usually find a way to do business with me without it.

I do have a driver’s license which I leave in my gf’s car in case I have to,
you know, drive.

~~~
zamadatix
What were you being asked to present your ID for other than driving (or
alcohol if younger) in the first place?

~~~
gumby
People ask all the time: to enter certain buildings, when using a credit card
(in almost every case that’s a violation of the card-merchant agreement).
Entering bars and clubs or picking up liquor or some prescriptions (not even
my prescriptions!). For many bars and clubs and at, say Walgreens for liquor
they don’t merely look but swipe...and in the bars the info is collected by
the company that makes the swipe system (learned of this from a HN post,
though I could of guessed). What business is it of theirs where I go?

I never hassle anyone — they didn’t make the rule. I just say I don’t have one
and invariably to date (except entering a federal court house) I’ve been fine.

This includes flying. It’ll be interesting to see if that “real ID” rubbish
does finally get enforced. All the previous deadlines have been punted.

