
Impossible Pork - alangpierce
https://impossiblefoods.com/pork/
======
ivanhoe
The environmental problems don't come from cattle or pork or palm trees
themselves, they're caused by massive industrial levels of production that
modern civilization needs. To truly substitute pork this industry will have to
become as massive as the pork meat industry is now. And that means, among
other things, a huge increase in already high demand for coconut and palm tree
oil - which will certainly reflect in 3rd world countries jumping the wagon
and clearing even more rain forests, and even more rare species will be
endangered. So we just replace one problem with another.

~~~
wojcikstefan
I like to think in the framework of "you're never really _solving_ any
problem, you're just replacing a bad problem with a slightly less bad
problem". My speculation is that Impossible Pork (or any other such product)
would be just that – a slightly better problem to have compared to the current
pork meat industry.

Yes, sourcing ingredients for plant-based meat alternatives still takes
resources and, given enough scale, that demand will have negative
environmental impacts... But growing plants is still an order of magnitude
better than farming animals.

~~~
akiselev
Literally an order of magnitude. The maximum trophic efficiency between two
steps in the food chain is 10% so for a pound of meet you need at least 10
pounds of plant feed. In order to supply the world with meat, we're _already_
growing far more than enough. The problem is the distribution of crop species
since humans can't eat just corn and alfa-alfa. Processed meat substitutes
might be able to redirect those existing animal feed crops towards feeding us
directly and making good use of less fertile land.

~~~
gruez
>The maximum trophic efficiency between two steps in the food chain is 10% so
for a pound of meet you need at least 10 pounds of plant feed.

This seems to be contradicted by [1]. It says that beef it typically 6:1
(plant feed: meat) and chicken is typically 1.6.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed_conversion_ratio)

~~~
wahern
Reading that Wikipedia article I wondered whether it was possible to have an
FCR (feed conversion ratio) of less than 1. And indeed it is!
[https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00K8MQ.pdf](https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PA00K8MQ.pdf)
Of course, the livestock are consuming highly processed, energy rich feed, but
so do humans.

OTOH, none of this means that the same amount of net calories are available to
the human. FCR is not the same thing as trophic efficiency. In particular, as
per the above explanation, FCR is often calculated using wet mass of the
output but dry mass of the input.

All that said, the conversion efficiencies for chicken and farmed fish are
still amazing.

------
mark_l_watson
I really like Beyond Meat hot Italian sausage, think the Beyond Meat burgers
served with all the trimmings are good, and the Impossible Burgers at Burgher
King are OK.

I welcome Impossible Pork, looking forward to trying it.

I am one of those weird people who doesn’t like to eat inhumanly raised animal
products, but I just don’t care what other people choose to eat.

~~~
Fr0styMatt88
I tried the Beyond Meat patty, version 1 I think. Wondering if anyone else got
an absolutely strange type of taste / sensation in their throat when they
tried it? It wasn’t at all pleasant and really hard to describe. Kind of like
- I don’t know - canola oil mixed with peanut - sort-of? While breathing in a
thick gas. Very odd.

I was really hyped up to like it, but found it only somewhat like meat. I was
impressed with the texture inside. The outer crust reminded me of warm
cardboard. To be fair, I might have burned it so I do want to try it again.
Really keen to try an Impossible Burger (anyone know if there’s somewhere in
Australia that serves them?).

My whole place smelled sickly sweet after cooking it as well. I’ve seen some
people describing it as smelling like cat food, which I’d agree with.

~~~
chadcmulligan
Grill'd serves a beyond burger if there's one nearby.

Personally I don't think they're particularly healthy - I'll stick to chick
pea patties or the occasional beef patty. They are highly processed.

~~~
sumedh
I tried one of the beyond burger, I got a legume like taste, didnt like it.

~~~
bmlzootown
I've tried one at two different Burger Kings, both tasted a bit burnt. I
wouldn't mind a legume taste, but I can't do overdone. Has anyone else noticed
this?

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diziet
With the majority (>50%) of the calories in these meat replacements coming
from Coconut Oil, Sunflower Oil, Canola Oil and possibly other... not so great
high fat ingredients, I worry about these products from a health perspective.

~~~
gnicholas
If you're worrying about the health aspects, look more at the sodium (500% as
much as real pork). It's true that the jury is still out on how bad sodium is
for you, but it's definitely not great to have 5x as much sodium as the real
thing.

I would probably try to counteract this with lower-sodium pasta sauce, or less
soy sauce.

~~~
copperx
The jury is out on sodium? There's convincing evidence high sodium intake can
cause stomach cancer.

~~~
throwGuardian
Stomach cancer is the most adverse. Increased sodium is proven to drastically
increase blood pressure, which in turn increases many cardio vascular and
renal diseases.

Edit: surprised by the downvotes on what are well established facts [1]

[1]: [https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/salt-and-
sodium...](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/salt-and-sodium/)

~~~
tallanvor
Research shows that the relationship between sodium intake and high blood
pressure is much more complex than just saying that increased sodium increases
blood pressure (let alone claiming it does so "drastically").

Too much sodium in the bloodstream causes the body to retain extra water to
dilute it. This can cause swelling of the blood vessels, which can cause them
to harden over time. That hardening raises blood pressure and makes the heart
work harder. When this has happened, reducing sodium intake will help reduce
blood pressure by reducing the volume of fluid the heart has to circulate.

But if your blood vessels haven't hardened, there are other ways of helping to
regulate your salt levels in addition to, or instead of, decreasing sodium
intake. Drinking more liquids will help your kidneys process more sodium, and
regular exercise will also help.

------
cyorir
So I've been vegetarian for nearly 10 years. I tried an impossible burger for
the first time last week. I liked it, but found it to be a bit disturbing
because the texture reminded me of eating actual meat. I want to have
vegetarian food which is nutritious, has good taste, has good texture, and
doesn't remind me of meat. So I don't think I'll stick with the impossible
brand, since it fails on that last measure.

Edit: To elaborate a bit, I think foods like this may fall in an unfortunate
valley where they are too similar to meat to please some vegetarians but
insufficiently similar to meat to please some meat eaters. I tried the
impossible burger because I had heard some complaints from meat eaters that it
was not "meaty" enough for them - meaning it might not be too "meaty" for me.

~~~
sp332
Ok so obvious question here, why eat fake beef if you don't want to be
reminded of beef?

Edit: this got asked a lot, so I'll all a related question instead. Is it
possible for a burger to have "good taste and good texture" but also not
remind you of beef?

~~~
gwbas1c
Yes:

Try a turkey burgers, a chicken burger, a black bean burger, ect... There's so
much better variety in veggie burgers, (and they don't cause the run to the
bathroom, if you know what I mean.)

And, if you ever find yourself in India, try McDonald's vegetarian burgers.
Nothing like beef, but still delicious.

Think of a "burger" as a style of sandwich. Some of us are so used to
"hamburger" that it's hard to imagine the patty being anything else.

Honestly, it's worth trying a veggie burger. (A lot of people order them with
bacon on top.) As long as you stay away from the "I can't believe it's not
meat" style, they're delicious.

~~~
egypturnash
Today I learnt that turkey is a vegetable.

~~~
crooked-v
The point is that "beef" is not the definitional taste and texture of a meat
patty.

------
kstenerud
Considering the damage that ultra-processed foods have already caused to
humanity, and considering how new this kind of thing is, I'll stick with real
meat and other whole foods until I've seen a decade-long study showing that
these alternatives are safe.

~~~
bbmario
Certainly safer for the animals.

~~~
blunte
And probably less likely to include pathogens that come from animals.

I think all people need an occasional look at where their food comes from. The
amount of animal shit (rodents and the slaughtered animals themselves) in
commercially sourced meat has increased in the last decade. If you stood a
person in front of a meat grinder and said, "Here, now we throw in the
appropriate legally-allowed amount of poop into the mix", fewer people would
be in line to buy the end product.

Or if they were allowed to go visit the factory chicken farms and see the
sick, diseased chickens that end up on their dinner plates, I think they would
be unable to eat it.

Do people not realize that the recent laws aimed at preventing information
gathering from factory farms is designed to prevent them from learning what
they are really eating?

~~~
gwbas1c
If that kind of thing worries you, then stick with plant-based whole foods and
wild fish.

Plenty of humans have had low, or no, animal products in their diet "forever."
You don't need a fancy new food from Silicon Valley to avoid meat.

~~~
blunte
I never suggested that a manufactured meat replacement was a solution :).

Personally I think the fake meats are a needless crutch. Yes, creating an
interesting vegetarian dish requires more effort than just throwing a fatty
steak on a grill (the magic of heat, fat, and animal protein), but with just a
bit of effort a vegetarian dish can be very satisfying and healthy at the same
time.

~~~
gwbas1c
> Personally I think the fake meats are a needless crutch.

More then that, they're a hype-driven fad where a good concept gets ruined by
people letting their imaginations run away, like cryptocurrency and driverless
cars.

Honestly, I think test tube meat is where the real revolution will come from.
(Animal flesh grown without the animal.) "I can't believe it's not meat" will
join the ranks of Jello salads and other foods that we no longer eat.

(That, and I think that vegetarian dishes will slowly become more and more
popular as people realize that they taste good and eating meat everyday is
boring.)

------
cm2012
Very excited to try this. Impossible burgers are amazing, way better than
beyond burgers. And Dunkin donuts Beyond sausage is not very good, so I'd love
to try impossible instead.

~~~
0xff00ffee
Yeah, I agree with you. There's a big difference between impossible and beyond
to my palette, the former being way more convincing. I have a feeling these
are only going to improve. We've come such a long way from what constituted a
"veggie burger" in the early 1990's.

------
p1necone
Maybe a vegan sausage patty could be more easily convincing - they usually
have lots of binders and spices anyway. Beyond Meat/Impossible Burger were
disgusting to me (compared to regular beef), and they were dyed bright red and
stayed bright red when they were cooked which is weird and not like meat.

My favourite (chain fast food) non meat burger option so far has been the one
that McDonalds recently released in New Zealand - it's a deep fried, crumbed
mashed potato patty with other vegetables in it too. Doesn't pretend to be
meat but is delicious.

~~~
jrmg
_Beyond Meat /Impossible Burger were disgusting to me (compared to regular
beef), and they were dyed bright red and stayed bright red when they were
cooked which is weird and not like meat._

Where did you have this burger? My experience with Impossible Burgers (at The
Counter) is not at all like this. They were a pretty good facsimile of meat.
I’d go so far as to say they changed my opinion on meat substitutes.

Previously, I was in the same camp as all those here saying they prefer
delicious food that doesn’t pretend to be meat - but I think I’d choose an
Impossible Burger over that now if I was in the mood for a burger.

~~~
p1necone
Hmm, based on some of the other comments it is possible I've only tried Beyond
Meat and not the Impossible Burger - I'll have to seek it out and see.

~~~
runako
I've cooked the Beyond Meat beef substitute a few times, and it has never
stayed red for me either. (That would be a deal-killer for me.)

Perhaps you got a beta version, or some of a bad batch, of the Beyond Meat?

~~~
jhloa2
I cooked up some beyond patties from the grocery store and they stayed red for
me. I did attempt to cook them the same as I would a meat patty though. Seems
like there's a technique to cooking them well

~~~
cull
I’ve only ever cooked the store bought beyond burgers and prefer grilling
them. minor adjustments in cooking technique can produce both red-in-the-
middle and well done versions. I don’t care for the pan fryed version as it
crusts and sometimes burns a little if left on one side too long.

------
cj
I went vegan 6 months ago.

I tried a Beyond Burger for the first time last night (and again tonight). I
wasn’t expecting this, but: it looks like a burger, it cooks like a burger, it
smells like a burger, and it tastes like a burger (including texture).

That said, I will likely never buy it again, and have no interest in trying
new products from Impossible Foods.

My main problem with it is the lack of clarity around how healthy engineered
foods like the Beyond Burger really is. Sure, it doesn’t have the cholesterol
of real meat, but is a heavily processed alternative really any better?

~~~
crooked-v
> My main problem with it is the lack of clarity around how healthy engineered
> foods like the Beyond Burger really is.

That's what the nutrition facts label is for. "Being processed" doesn't
magically make food worse than non-processed food.

For the Beyond Burger in particular, it's directly comparable to ground beef:
roughly similar fat content (depends on the lean/fat blend you get for the
beef), more sodium but no cholesterol, similar protein levels, and a bit more
miscellaneous stuff like potassium, iron, and phosphorous.

~~~
imtringued
> "Being processed" doesn't magically make food worse than non-processed food.

No but being processed at a factory means that it can be treated in a way that
makes non-processed food or home-processed superior. By definition, processed
food bought from the supermarket is not fresh and has already lost nutrition
and it will stay in a supermarket for weeks. No matter how many preservatives
you add it's old food. Processing often increases the surface area which makes
it easier for bacteria to spread and the food to oxidize. Meanwhile the most
significant "processing" you do at home happens a few hours or minutes before
eating. Nobody is arguing that left overs are superior to eating food on the
same day it's cooked.

The heuristic that factory processed food is worse still holds. In theory you
could make healthy processed food but there is no economic incentive for that
so it is the exception, not the rule.

~~~
andrewla
> The heuristic that factory processed food is worse still holds.

This is a critical observation, and should be at the top of this entire
comment thread.

There's a fetish amongst intelligent people to try to think "logically", but
logic is actually a terrible system for analyzing anything in the real world.
The argument that "it is possible for a processed food to be good for you, and
possible for an unprocessed plant to be deadly" is a totally logical
refutation of the idea that "processed food it bad" but nonetheless is
completely nonsensical because we don't live in a world of binary.

------
neeeeees
I’ve always found Impossible’s “versioning” scheme amusing.

One of my favourite burger joints recently shifted from offering Impossible v2
to v3 for their patty, as v3 supposedly resembled meat more closely.

However, I thought that v2 tasted much better while avoiding the “uncanny
valley” of meat substitutes... I wish they would keep them all available
rather than phasing out older versions.

~~~
drewmol
Older versions are possible. if an impossible upgrade is released, all prior
versions become inevitable

------
galkk
I'm curious what will happen when we will be able to grow "just" meat (like
organs), without cows/pigs/chicken (I believe that we will be able to achieve
this). Will the people who refuse to eat meat now due to ethical concerns,
still refuse to eat it.

~~~
imtringued
How do you ensure that the meat didn't come from a factory farm? When you're
going to a friend's BBQ or a restaurant you may not know the source of the
meat.

~~~
claudiawerner
I assume that it would be possible to ask and find out from the packaging,
just as one currently finds out if foods contain certain allergens. Asking the
BBQ host if the meat is factory farmed or grown in a lab would be just like
asking if the mustard contains gluten.

------
rst
So, someone has to ask... is Impossible Pork kosher?

~~~
DuskStar
If it's purely plant based it would have to be, right?

But the real achievement will be Impossible Bacon.

~~~
dvtrn
_But the real achievement will be Impossible Bacon_

Just shared the exact same sentiment with a friend; while I'm no committed
vegan or vegetarian, if I see an impossible burger on a menu at a burger bar,
I'll happily order one.

If they manage to make a passable and just as enjoyable impossible bacon
strip, oh boy.

------
ericdykstra
Can we stop trying to replace every last natural source of calories with some
combination of soy, corn, perfume, salt, sugar, and vegetable oil?

~~~
tootie
Why?

~~~
DVassallo
Because they're not natural foods.

And natural here does not mean not artificial. Natural food is the food we've
been designed to eat.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Natural food is the food we've been designed to eat.

Humans aren't designed.

~~~
batuhanicoz
We are though, at least in a way. Isn't evolution a really slow design
process?

~~~
tootie
Humans evolved the ability to make soy-based meat substitutes. Hence, it's
nature at work.

------
cgy1
Pork is very important for the Chinese market.

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dfxm12
I get the appeal of making something familiar to consumers, but will we ever
see an Impossible product with a flavor that they claim tastes _different from
and better than_ any existing pork or beef product?

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muzani
When you think about it, pork allegedly tastes like human. I wonder how hard
it is to get to impossible long pork. The marketing challenges would only be
similar to getting halal/kosher eaters to try impossible pork.

~~~
ProfessorLayton
A bit more than allegedly. Pozole used to be used to be made with human meat,
which was swapped with pork precisely because it "tasted very similar" [1]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozole#History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozole#History)

------
gHosts
Wake me up when the prices at the supermarket are comparable with actual
pork...

~~~
MiroF
Wake me up when the government eliminates meat & dairy subsidies (or at least
subsidizes the alternatives at equal rates)

Dairy farmers make 70% of their earnings off of subsidy

------
lordnacho
I wonder if you could make Impossible Crackling. One of the Danish classics is
something called flæskesteg, which gets really good if you have the skin done
right so that it's crispy.

------
savoytruffle
I've had the Beyond Sausage at Dunkin Donuts. It was acceptable, but actually
more spiced than you normally ever get from a sausage patty — probably to
cover up for other deficiencies.

------
throwGuardian
There is a desperate need for a truly healthy meat alternative, without the
inflated sodium/preservatives and fat.

Why are beyond/impossible not investing in a healthier alternative

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _Why are beyond /impossible not investing in a healthier alternative_

Healthy vegan meat substitutes are a crowded space.

Impossible and Beyond went for flavour and price with mass distribution, a
novel market segment.

~~~
throwGuardian
I have to disagree - till the products actually made it to the shelves, where
nutritional analysis revealed how unhealthy beyond/impossible truly were, they
conveniently left out these bits in their messaging. It wasn't an accident
that their marketing paired "tasty" and "vegan", which to any casual observer
screams "healthy & tasty"

------
elktea
Are there laws around imitation foods that would prevent this from being
called "Pork" in any countries?

------
m0zg
Contains soy, so thanks, but no, thanks.

------
luxuryballs
My wife is allergic to pork so I can somewhat appreciate this... otherwise I
don’t get it, if you want to eat plants just eat plants. But hey if they are
making money well, I get that!

Though I always wondered if the animal rights type of vegetarians eat this
stuff, I would suppose they consider it a grotesque display or a mockery to
dress up plant matter as animal murder.

~~~
carlosdp
Impossible's goal isn't to make food for vegetarians, it's to try to replace
meat for meat-eaters by making the facsimile very close, the ultimate goal
being about the environmental effects. Something like 70% of water usage in US
is for cattle production.

~~~
WillPostForFood
70% of water goes to cattle, another 70% goes to walnut trees, another 70%
goes to water golf courses, and the last 70% goes to the next trendy anti-
cause. Anyway, not even close to true.

[https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-
school/scie...](https://www.usgs.gov/special-topic/water-science-
school/science/surface-water-use-united-states?qt-science_center_objects=0#qt-
science_center_objects)

~~~
imtringued
This reminds me of everyone having a favorite pet project that could be funded
by cutting the military budget. It's a nice shared fantasy because everyone
can dream that their pet project gets funded but if it actually happened then
lots of those dreams would have to pop because there simply isn't enough money
for more than one giga project.

