
Why the F-35 Isn’t Good Enough for Japan - Jerry2
https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/why-the-f-35-isnt-good-enough-for-japan/
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throwaway000021
Australia couldn't be more eager to spend tens of billions on this white
elephant.

But of course anything the U.S. says is good for Australia just has to be,
right?

We'd have been better off spending billions buying anti ship missiles.

~~~
Trundle
No you were right with the second sentence. We're better off spending our
defence budget doing what the US says.

Unless we're going to nuke up, our defence strategy is being an actual powers
bitch. Solid relations with the US will go a lot further than some anti ship
missiles.

~~~
eksemplar
Except right now, you may be paying for a lot of nothing because US relations
change from tweet to tweet. I mean, I know politics is playing for the long
run in these things, and Trump won’t be there in 10 years, but his voters
might, and if the US is really closing up, then the powers at be near
Australia just might end up being China.

~~~
sjwright
It would be worth reconsidering if and when the Trump influence proves itself
to be durable, not before, not reflexively.

The thing to remember is that Trumpism is a combination of cynicism towards
prior experts/elites, and Donald’s extreme narcissism. The latter is certainly
not durable.

~~~
eksemplar
There is no doubt that Trump is the temporary protest vote, but nationalism is
on the rise everywhere. Before WWII America was perfectly fine minding its own
business, and it might be dangerous to plan for their internationalism to
recover post Trump.

------
dingaling
> As a single engine light platform with a small arsenal of just four air-to-
> air missiles

It is quite the opposite, it is a lardy brute heavier than Japan's two
previous top-line fighters:

Maximum take-off weight tonnes / installed thrust tonnes / length

F-35A 31.8 / 19 / 15.7

F-15C 30.8 / 22 / 19.4

F-4E 28 / 16.4 / 19.2

And for comparison:

F-22 38+ / 32 / 18.9

Both the F-15 and 22 show their air superiority primary mission with higher
thrust-to-weight ratios, which approach unity once transit field is burned
off. But the F-35 is not a light fighter, it is a modern-day F-4. Maybe it
should have been named Phantom III...

~~~
riku_iki
I think they refer to the fact that only 4 AIM-120 missiles currently can fit
F-35's internal bay. It is promised to be fixed in the future, with 6 missiles
be places inside.

~~~
LyndsySimon
My understanding is that an F-35 carrying AIM-120s (AMRAAMs) is kind of a
stopgap measure anyhow. The AMRAAM was designed to be deployed externally on
the F-15 and F-16; the next-generation missile will be smaller and designed to
be deployed in internal bays, therefore increasing the number that can be
carried.

My memory said that the new missile was called the "NRAAM" or something
similar, but I can't find reference to it anywhere after a brief search. Maybe
that idea was scrapped?

~~~
riku_iki
I never heard about any planned AMRAAM successor.. Also those missiles would
have shorter range if being smaller..

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sintaxi
I suspect someone within the US Military or Lockheed Martin is putting Japan
up to this in order to build a case to get the F-22 back in production. I'm
unconvinced Japan really sees the F-35 as inadequate.

~~~
farseer
Japan would be better off with the F-22 but I don't believe Lockheed would
want to restart production on that. Such a decision would disturb the perfect
political engineering Lockheed has done by spreading out the F-35 logistics
across all 50 states.

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megaman22
What a frigging boondoggle that thing is. I'm disgusted that we've spent so
much money fiddle-frigging around on it. At best it's a technological dead end
- manned aircraft in the roles envisioned for it will seem increasingly silly
in the coming years.

~~~
sintaxi
Unmanned aircraft works as a strike fighter once air superiority is
established but I don't see how it can replace a stealth air superiority jet
at this time.

~~~
greglindahl
Is it possible to have air superiority because of missiles fired from the
ground? A bit less heroic than manned fighter jets in dogfights, but ...

~~~
riku_iki
And how you will bring those missile on enemy territory? Also dogfight is not
a thing for many years, modern jets can also use missiles..

~~~
greglindahl
There are missiles fired from the ground which have long range. Since they
don't have to be carried by a plane, they can be bigger.

Or if you really want missiles fired from a plane, they can be fired from an
unmanned plane.

~~~
riku_iki
> There are missiles fired from the ground which have long range. Since they
> don't have to be carried by a plane, they can be bigger.

Current generation of US surface to air missiles has range of about 200 miles,
which is not that much.

> Or if you really want missiles fired from a plane, they can be fired from an
> unmanned plane.

Maybe, but what exactly you propose? Remove pilot from F-35? Or build
something completely new?

~~~
greglindahl
My suggestion is to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on longer-range SAMs
and more fragile, unmanned, missile-carrying aircraft cheaper than the F35.

Sorry if this isn't obvious, I've seen lots of other people (including people
in the military) suggest the same thing.

~~~
riku_iki
Ok, let's assume your aircraft succeeded to gain air superiority, now you need
to do actual bombing of enemy territory with air defense. What now? F-35 has
some edge by being stealthy. It can track and target moving targets, it can do
CAS. Will your fragile aircraft survive in such conditions?

~~~
greglindahl
Do I get to include the effect of having a lot more stuff because I didn't
have to pay for manned F-35s?

Also, do I get to track moving targets from low Earth orbit using small-ish
satellites, or is that right out?

~~~
riku_iki
Your very aggressive conclusions are based on very unclear assumptions.

~~~
greglindahl
I didn’t conclude anything! I’m just suggesting alternatives to the status
quo.

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apta
> The F-35 has less than half the range of the larger F-22 and lacks the
> Raptor’s advanced long ranged air-to-air missiles

What long range missiles? I thought the longest range missiles carried by both
fighters are the AMRAAMs.

