
Why I left Google (HN search results) - kelukelugames
https://hn.algolia.com/?query=why%20i%20left%20google&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story
======
y3sh
Tldr politics, glass ceilings, re-orgs, purposeless/abandoned projects. As a
former Googler, I can see why people post these: internally Google is hyper-
evangelized as the best place to work ever (why would you work anywhere else).
When leaving, its a necessary step to form a good argument for yourself as to
why you've decided to go against the culture. The personal spin makes it an
interesting read.

~~~
b4lancesh33t
Yeah I've been at Google a decade and I strongly don't agree with the notion
that it's hyper evangelized as the best place to work. In official
communications, yes, but I think most people here are aware of the drawbacks
and problems. Maybe even a little too aware. Internal lists are rife with the
discussions of even the slightest deviation from perfect execution on the part
of management, product teams, the culture, etc. That's not to say there's no
one here with rose tinted goggles, but I think most people have their eyes
open.

~~~
rleigh
When I interviewed with Google, the over-the-top "Google is the best place to
work evaaar" attitudes I got from the majority of people I interacted with
gave me the distinct impression that it was like some bizarre cult. Most of
them were so green they likely hadn't had any other job, so were unlikely to
be able to know how silly they appeared to me (having worked for several
companies in very different fields).

~~~
davidcbc
What recruiter has ever said "This is just an ok place to work?"

Every job I've had the people I've interacted with in recruiting/interviews
have all been very positive about the company.

~~~
rleigh
There are degrees of enthusiasm and positivity. Everywhere else I've
interviewed, people have been relatively positive since they want to sell the
company to you and give you a good impression. At Google, it was way beyond
that. I think cult-like is a good take on it; it was frankly a bit creepy and
weird.

And as for the "recruiters", they didn't really try to sell Google at all. I
think they assumed that the Google name was sufficient reason to want to work
for them. (It isn't, or at least was not for me.)

------
DoreenMichele
When I worked at Aflac, it was the largest civilian employer in Columbus, GA.
It had the tallest building in town. If I made small talk while getting a
haircut or buying lunch in town, people would ooh and aah that I had a job
there. This was a little funny and surreal because I could not get promoted
out of my entry level job. I felt like a loser, yet here were people acting
like _I 'm not worthy_.

When I quit, I left town and began doing freelance work. If I had stayed in
town or transferred to a different job at a smaller company, I might have felt
compelled to justify my decision to leave. I probably would have gotten a lot
of social push back and inquiries as to why on earth I would do such a thing.

I imagine most of these posts are written partly for that reason. It cuts back
on being asked in the first place and then you can email the link the next 20
times you are asked. Plus, it is free therapy, among other things.

~~~
saalweachter
I think this is accentuated because for a lot of people, when you move across
the country right after college to work at a big company like Google, it
_becomes your life_. Early on, you don't know anyone and you spend way too
much time working because that's what you do when you're fresh out of college
new hire in a new town. As time goes on, most of the friends you make are
friends from work and even if you get a pretty healthy work-life balance, a
lot of your free time is spent hanging out with your friends from work.

So when the time comes for you to leave the company, you aren't just leaving
the company, _you 're leaving your entire life_. It's the life change of
leaving your job, getting divorced, and moving to a new town all rolled into
one: it is one of the most significant events in your life, and you _can 't_
not think about it and try to understand it and explain it to other people.

~~~
mattgreenrocks
The whole "work is life" thing is pretty weird, and I'm ambitious. Life has
lots of interesting things that have nothing to do with JavaScript, why would
you waste your youth on yet another JS framework?

I somewhat regret the large amounts of time I put into my side projects when I
was young (20s). They definitely produced results in my career, but I'm
uncertain if they provided _that_ much of a boost. From my vantage point, you
can get along quite well by latching on to a bandwagon and networking, rather
than working so hard.

~~~
wolco
When did we stop doing side projects for yourself? If you are not doing side
projects for fun of it then something is wrong. No one should feel they have
to do a side project.

~~~
mattgreenrocks
I still do side projects, and they were always for fun.

But I regret the proportion of time spent.

------
ChuckMcM
There was a tool at Google called 'percent' that you could run that would tell
you what percent of the employees had joined Google after you (some measure of
gravitas was associated with people who had been there 'a long time'). It was
not surprising that Google hired a lot of people, there were like 50 people in
my 'noogler' class. But the number of people reported as working at Google did
not go up at a similar rate. When you did the math it was pretty clear there
are many people who spend a relatively short amount of time there.

As a result I'm a bit surprised that there aren't even more of these stories.
At lunch one day the topic came up and we joked it would be interesting if
engineers could earn medals (similar to the ones in the military) for each
company they worked for. It would make for an interesting fashion accessory.

~~~
nitrogen
_It would make for an interesting fashion accessory._

Best available alternative: wear tshirt from company A with jacket from
company B and backpack from company C

~~~
ChuckMcM
Ooh I like this idea, and I think I can pull it off with all dead companies,
making for a dead company terducken :-)

~~~
AstralStorm
Don't forget to put in a sign "I didn't kill these companies." ;)

------
curtis
On a somewhat related note, I have found Algolia to be an effective way to
search for popular stories that got flagged. Once or twice a day I go to
hn.algolia.com and view popular stories for the last 24 hours. This is also an
effective way to review popular stories for the last day, whether they got
flagged or not. Since Algolia is using a much simpler ranking than the Hacker
News front page, you get a much more stable view, which is a nice alternative
to submissions flying up and down on the front page at various speeds.

~~~
eitland
I've been using [http://hckrnews.com/](http://hckrnews.com/) for the last few
months.

It surprises me how many interesting stories get flagged off the front page.

Edit: beaten by softawre

~~~
bonesss

      beaten by softawre
    

That's going on my tombstone...

------
Sir_Cmpwn
I'm curious to see what kind of discussion this generates before the HN mods
inevitably kick it off the front page. Most of these links seem to be of
employees who quit, but I'll add my article as a user who quit:

[https://drewdevault.com/2016/11/16/Getting-on-without-
Google...](https://drewdevault.com/2016/11/16/Getting-on-without-Google.html)

~~~
romanovcode
Not using google is much simpler then it sounds.

\- iPhone

\- DDG

\- Firefox/Safari

\- Some other email then google

That's pretty much all you need.

~~~
epaga
A coworker uses DDG and each time we are talking about a problem at work
(software development) and need to search something, I am disappointed by the
lack of good results and make him use Google instead. It is currently 5 - 0
for Google if I recall correctly.

I would switch in a heartbeat if the results were comparable. Every time I’ve
given it (or Bing) a shot for a few weeks, Google was simply better.

~~~
godshatter
Use "!g" to have DDG send the query to google. You get the results you want
without the tracking.

~~~
slap_shot
Interesting. Is it just me or shouldn't that be the default functionality? An
added benefit is that DDG can then see what result the user picks, compare
than to how well (if at all) DDG ranked that link.

~~~
cpeterso
!g redirects to google.com, so the results are not displayed or anonymized by
DDG. If you want Google results without Google tracking, check out
startpage.com. (!sp in DDG)

------
tompetry
“First, I do not sit down at my desk to put into verse something that is
already clear in my mind. If it were clear in my mind, I should have no
incentive or need to write about it. We do not write in order to be
understood; we write in order to understand.”

― Cecil Day-Lewis

------
reificator
> _Why I left Google for a Bitcoin startup - 4 years ago - 0 comments_

> _404 page not found_

~~~
shrikant
It's here now: [https://www.digitaldrex.com/single-post/2014/07/08/Why-I-
lef...](https://www.digitaldrex.com/single-post/2014/07/08/Why-I-left-Google-
for-a-Bitcoin-Startup)

~~~
quotemstr
Wouldn't it be nice if there were some "Previously-Known-By" HTTP header or
meta tag? This way, upon seeing an NXDOMAIN or a 404, browsers could ask
$SEARCHENGINE, "Hey. Find me any page advertising that it was previously known
by $URL", and browsers could then offer to redirect the user to that new
location.

~~~
reificator
Going the other direction is fairly easy, if you retain control over the
original page, you can help people/search engines find the new page via the
following:

* Meta refresh tags: `<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0; url=[http://example.com/"](http://example.com/") />`

* HTTP Status codes `301` and `302`

* Canonical link tags: `<link rel="canonical" href="[http://www.example.com/"/>`](http://www.example.com/"/>`)

~~~
quotemstr
Of course the other direction is easy. I'm talking about COME FROM, not GO TO.
:-)

~~~
reificator
Agreed. However, in this case they still own the domain, so GOTO is the way to
go.

In fact that's the rub. If they still have access to the original page's
location, then GOTO makes sense. If they don't have access, then how do you
know you're getting what you hoped for?

What happens if I say I used to be [https://google.com](https://google.com),
and then through some disaster the Google homepage is inaccessible for 3
seconds? That's a lot of users that just filtered down to my potentially
malicious site, no matter how low the conversion rate.

If the web was still a network of documents, I think something like what
you're suggesting would be a lot more viable, particularly with hashing and
signatures helping do the heavy lifting.

But as an application delivery platform that still looks and pretends to be a
network of documents, suddenly that carries a lot more risk.

~~~
quotemstr
I thought about that. Making the "COME FROM" redirect a deliberate, explicit
user action might help. ("Google.com is down. h4x0rz.ru claims to be its
successor. Go here? [Yes] [No]".)

------
minimaxir
I incidentally made the same search yesterday because I had the same question
regarding the _tone_ , in light of how the most recent viral post
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16220666](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16220666))
utterly slams Google.

Unless there's corporate malfeasance, it's counterproductive in the long run
to talk so badly about a former employer, especially on a forever-archived
blog post. Even if it does feel good to let out pent-up thoughts.

When I wrote a blog post about leaving Apple
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14270897](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14270897)),
I made a conscious effort to be objective with the rationale why I left (to
grow my technical skills), and not emotionally judge Apple as a company (I
still strongly support Apple).

~~~
ocdtrekkie
When Yegge made his infamous platforms rant, he was clearly hoping to convey
(internally, to other Googlers) important criticism on Google's mistakes,
which is a _productive_ conversation to have. I have seen a lot of tweets in
particular from Google employees that can only be described as 'butthurt'
regarding this blog post... but if, with any luck, the right Googlers read his
post, with a little self-reflection, "slamming" Google might be good for
Google. Because like any other company, Google _could change_ , and could
improve.

And this is hardly a slam, he still specifies that he believes it is basically
the best place to work, and his follow-up post provides a bit more context to
the main quote from the previous blog.

------
amelius
Contrast this with: "Why I joined Google"

[https://hn.algolia.com/?query=why%20i%20joined%20google&sort...](https://hn.algolia.com/?query=why%20i%20joined%20google&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story)

------
corobo
If you do the same for Facebook it's all users no longer using Facebook rather
than employees no longer working there

~~~
reificator
That's because Facebook is a network and you leave networks. Google is a set
of services and you quit services.

~~~
freehunter
Yeah, when you leave Facebook, you're leaving a lot. You're not just stopping
using a piece of software, it's more like you're giving up relationships,
you're giving up a piece of your social life. For better or worse, you're
probably going to miss _something_ when you stop using Facebook, so there is a
tradeoff that needs to be made. You're changing your social contract. It's a
big deal.

Meanwhile when you stop using Google products... no one notices. No one cares.
It's a completely personal decision. I stopped using Google products one by
one when I found competitors I liked better and absolutely no one knows and no
one asks because no one cares. I can still email Gmail users and they'll never
know. I can send someone an address that I got from Apple Maps and they can
open it in Google Maps just fine. If they send me a Google Maps link, I can
open it in Google Maps because I don't need an account and a profile and a
friends list first. I can use Bing or DDG and no one notices.

It's a really big deal to stop using Facebook. It's a really big deal to stop
working at Google. In both cases you're losing some part of your social
identity. Not the case when you're stopping using Google products.

~~~
scottlocklin
I don't miss a thing from quitting facebook, and despite how addictive the
damn thing is, it was easily done and my quality of life increased in obvious
ways. Potemkin relationships are not relationships.

~~~
harlanji
Can you (or anyone reading) elaborate on details of how you did it? I'm
surgically shrinking it and it's caused a good amount of turbulence...
removing without communicating, and communicating removal are both difficult.
The latter is probably better. But my ears are open for solutions.

I disabled posting to my wall for example, so on my birthday people struck up
conversations instead. I anticipate I'll have it open for a while longer, but
I'm removing people as we establish side channels so-far. I never added
strangers but I'm not attached to everyone, like single conversation partners
(I originally typed friends, haha, deprogramming).

~~~
scottlocklin
I told everyone a week or two before I quit I was gonna quit. Those who wanted
to keep in touch had a way to do so. Those who didn't, I don't care about.
Downloaded my data, deleted my account, and moved on with life. I think 1-2
people didn't get the memo and didn't read my blog (I blogged about it) and
sent me an email wondering WTF. I do have close friends I primarily keep in
touch with using online tools; those talk to me on skype or equivalent.

------
yuhong
My favorite is Eric Schmidt leaving after
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-
schmidt-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/us/politics/eric-schmidt-
google-new-america.html)

------
lettergram
It was actually interesting to read some of these. Most of them seemed to have
really been turned off by the culture or the morals of what they were / are
doing.

------
viach
Interesting, there are 39 pages for "why I left" vs 8 pages "why I joined".
This is because bad news are always more popular, I suppose.

~~~
whamlastxmas
Or the reasons for joining are obvious and not interesting.

~~~
Zhyl
And have been since the beginning. The relevant XKCD [0] is from 2006.

[0] [https://xkcd.com/192/](https://xkcd.com/192/)

------
havetocharge
You are focusing on the loud minority and ignoring the silent majority.

~~~
nilkn
Maybe it's just that it's interesting and useful to look at why folks have
left a workplace that is otherwise hyped up as the best place to work in the
industry. We hear plenty about Google being a great place to work. We don't
hear so much about why people move on from it.

~~~
havetocharge
Most people who leave Google also do so silently, and for same reasons as
people leave other companies -- retirement, health, politics, better pay.

It's those who choose to trumpet their cause get the most attention though,
and it is representative only of their personalities, rather than the
workplace.

------
rburhum
It almost makes me want to write an article that says "why I have zero
interest in working at Google"

~~~
mrb
With all due respect, it sounds like your article would be full of pre-
conceived ideas since you have never worked at Google. At least those who
_quit_ have lived it and know for themselves. (And someone else's experience
might be quite different if he had been in that person's shoes.)

~~~
rburhum
Well, this is where you are wrong. I have worked in the core team at several
multi-billion dollar companies (e.g. Microsoft, NVIDIA, etc) and have received
job offers to lead teams from other similar companies (including the one you
mention and one of their fiercest competitor).

With all due the respect, your assumption that it would be full of pre-
concieved ideas is simply wrong. I just have anti-bodies that fully reject the
Kool-Aid and the cult-level fanboyism that is so common around these
companies.

~~~
baseethrowaway
So, you indeed have never worked at Google.

------
debt
Regardless, I think working at a mega-tech-corp like any in the valley are
immensely important. It shows you immediately that software is built by
bureaucracy. Many large projects are in fact built that way; you have to
collaborate with many teams.

------
jamisteven
“Look at me Look at me!!!”

~~~
ronilan
“Look at me I am old but I’m happy”

[https://youtu.be/yJDHkjXBtcU](https://youtu.be/yJDHkjXBtcU)

------
woodandsteel
Lots of people here talking about what it is like to work at Google or other
companies.

I am puzzled that nobody is talking about the author's claim that Google has
lost the ability to innovate and is not focused on users any more. Is he right
or wrong?

------
dpflan
Would this be useful to analyze the posters' sentiments and reasons while
knowing what products / divisions they worked on / for and their position at
G?

------
webXL
Wow, there have only been 74 recorded instances of people leaving Google. Some
even two or three times! /s

------
supergirl
nice plug

------
raister
As if anybody would disclose the _actual_ reason why they have left Google...

~~~
camelCaseOfBeer
I would imagine a company like Google would have the foresight to include
clauses in their NDA that forbid former employees from including the kind of
specific and substantive reasoning for their departure that the public might
actually find interesting. Not to mention a severance package goes a long way
as far as taming that salty post-employment flavor. Oh, and there's the small
matter of fact that they tend to pay well. I can only assume these factor into
a lot into the standard reason being, "it's kinda personal but I felt like I'd
be happier doing something different." Wow, what a revelation...

~~~
kevingadd
Man, I wish they actually offered departing staff severance and an NDA. Maybe
if you're a VP. I know VPs who get booted out for sexual harassment get to
keep their stock.

~~~
walshemj
Sex harassment cases are hard to prove it's often a case of he said she said
and hr (and the employee side) have to be very careful to be scrupulously fair
and not jump to conclusions.

So its often easier to settle - this is true for those harassed being brave
enough to go public and possibly be cross examined by a £2k a day barrister is
a nontrivial thing to do.

