
Ask HN: Have We Abandoned Julian Assange? - peter_retief
The most influential journalist ever, his reputation smeared and possibly being slowly murdered.
======
wrnr
It's what John Milton wrote about in Paradise Lost: To serve in Heaven or to
rule in Hell. Milton backed the republicans during the English revolution, and
saw his beloved revolution be usurped by the Cornwall dictatorship, and
ultimately the restoration of the British monarchy. He had to flee for his
life and was effectively banned from all public life. Whereas he used to serve
in prestiges jobs, at the end of his life he was marginalised, broke and
blind. Survivorship-bias gives a wrong impressions of rebels, most end on the
outskirts of society. Milton dictated the verses of Paradise Lost to a scribe,
as he put it, to justify the ways of God to Men. Substitute an all-powerful
God for an all-powerful government, and it get a hole new meaning. IMHO it's
still one of the best poems in the English language. There is a wise lesson
here, I don't like it, but I can't say it's not true.

~~~
peter_retief
Thanks for the excellent reply. I plan to read Paradise Lost now, I failed at
a previous attempt.

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hopesthoughts
The answer to the question is unfortunately yes. What I dreamt in 2010 is
coming true, just in a much different way. I actually dreamed that Assange was
executed by lethal injection. It's still happening all be it much slower.

------
dariusj18
I think Wikileaks were a novel concept, but they needed to remain
ideologically pure to remain viable. Unless all the evidence of conspiracy is
manufactured, the organization become political.

~~~
buboard
> evidence of conspiracy is manufactured

What evidence? Of conspiracy to do what?

~~~
dariusj18
[https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/930228239494209536](https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/930228239494209536)

[https://theintercept.com/2016/08/06/accusing-wikileaks-
bias-...](https://theintercept.com/2016/08/06/accusing-wikileaks-bias-beside-
point/)

~~~
buboard
is this evidence of conspiracy to get Sanders elected?

~~~
hopesthoughts
Lol, most people think it goes in the opposite direction.

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larnmar
It certainly does seem that he had a lot of fair-weather friends who only
liked him when he was pissing on one side of politics, but not the other.

~~~
CM30
Yeah, I'd agree 100% with this.

Sadly, it's not unique to Assange. It's a problem with a lot of society, with
politics, etc.

No one seems to have the moral integrity to treat their side and the others
equally, and to stand up for those who do the same. If they did, Assange may
not be in jail, or awaiting possible extradition to the US.

------
stillbourne
> The most influential journalist ever, his reputation smeared and possibly
> being slowly murdered.

Journalists don't edit source material to fit their narrative. I long ago lost
faith in Assange when he released edited footage of journalists being shot by
a US military helicoptor with an edited audio track. The video with the
original audio was damning enough, editing the video prior to release was the
beginning of the end for Assange in my eyes. Since then rather than releasing
any and all information Julian started to "curate" what was released. It's one
of the many reasons many of the original members of wikileaks left the
organization.

------
Nursie
I think perhaps it's a stretch to say he's the most influential journalist
_ever_ here.

He's a divisive character and seems to have been a divisive character amongst
those that knew and interacted with him, as well as the general public.

What's happened to him was all too predictable. The US was offended by him, so
one way or another they were going to get their hands on him. They tried all
the usual tricks - deny it, get their allies to do their dirty work while also
denying it. And now they have him. I expect him to turn up dead or otherwise
just disappear.

~~~
buboard
> most influential journalist ever here.

The narrative is that Assange put Trump into the world's most powerful office.
The only parallel in history is Nixon's resignation. He may not be #1 but , if
we are to believe the narrative, he's #2 (pun not intented)

Or we can conclude that he did not put trump in office. <insert tough decision
meme here>

------
tootie
That's an extremely generous description. For one, he's not really a
journalist. All he does is publish leaked information. In that regard, he's
not unique at all nor has he published more quantity or quality than MSM
sources. James Risen on the NY Times broke the mass surveillance story. Sy
Hersh of the New Yorker broker My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Glenn Greenwald
published the Snowden leaks. Assange is best known for Cablegate where he
actually mishandled that info. He's also best known for the DNC email leaks
which we now have evidence on the record showing that he coordinated this leak
with Roger Stone at the behest of the Trump campaign and probably received the
info from professional Russian hackers. He has absolutely debased himself. And
he's been far less influential than he believes himself to be.

~~~
Gustomaximus
> we now have evidence on the record showing that he coordinated this leak
> with Roger Stone at the behest of the Trump campaign.... He has absolutely
> debased himself.

I dont understand this view. So the logic being presented is if a journalist
(or other) is presenting information of public interest, but it comes from a
source that has a political (or other) motivation behind it they should then
bury the story?

I would understand this view if Assange also received information critical of
the Trumps/Russia and refused to publicise it, but what was his alternative?

> he's not really a journalist

Then what is he? His format and method are different but essentially he is
broadcasting news.

~~~
tootie
The source of his information was a deliberately malicious government agency.
The release was coordinated to cover up the news cycle of the Access Hollywood
tape. That means he is suborning espionage and he sat on it until it helped
Donald Trump. And he lied about it repeatedly.

He had also promised a trove of leaks about Russia in the past that never
materialized.

------
mattbgates
Three types of people in the world: those who expose the truth, those who
cover up the truth, and those who remain blissfully ignorant of the truth.
It's been a blow to our freedom that Julian Assange was betrayed, as Wikileaks
could've let us know exactly what we needed to know for 2020, but... refer to
#2 of the three types of people in the world, and #3 for those who vote based
on knowing only what they want to know.

------
js8
My personal theory is that Assange is just a too big a rebel. He is too
radical, so radical, that we cannot understand him, he is out of Overton
window. Perhaps to the point of being a hypocrite, by necessity.

Compare him with Edward Snowden. Snowden has moderate opinions compared to
Assange. With that, he is much more readable than Assange by general public,
and so he is better shielded.

~~~
peter_retief
Is the truth radical?

~~~
mda
Does he represent the truth?

~~~
buboard
yes. did he publish lies?

~~~
sgammon
publishing only one side of the story is a lie, or do you think Russian
intelligence asked him to be fully honest?

~~~
buboard
> publishing only one side of the story is a lie

while biased, it's not in itself a lie

~~~
peteradio
Lying by omission is certainly a thing. Selective publishing is similar and
while not technically a lie, is dishonest. I think you'd have to be naive to
trust wikileaks is impartial.

~~~
buboard
there's a confusion of terms here. "Lying by omission" is possible if the
source claims something and uses half the truth to support it. Assange didn't
claim anything, he just released some facts X. The fact that he did not
release stuff about the other side (which supposedly exists?) is totally
irrelevant to the validity of facts X.

> naive to trust wikileaks is impartial.

Also irrelevant. Nobody should be imprisoned for being partial!

------
throw51319
Dude he's not a good guy. If he was being fair, he would expose China and
Russia too. But he was just leaking US secrets. They never expose China or
Russia because they know what will happen in very short notice. The US is the
only one of the 3 that has a true due process.

------
lucd
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/22/mueller-r...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/22/mueller-
report-confirms-it-assange-is-not-whistleblower-or-journalist/)

~~~
peter_retief
Thats a very hard indictment against him, opinionated and wrong

~~~
sgammon
except it is accurate and researched by some of the best investigators in the
world, so there's that

~~~
buboard
an opinion is always accurate but never objective , by definition

------
MuricaFYeah
The amount of grey comments in this post (most of which are in support of
Assange) is pretty impressive. Good job Crazyhorses!

------
AmericanOP
Pre-2016 Assange, or after 2016 Assange?

~~~
buboard
which one deserves to rot in prison forever?

------
sgammon
Yes, And Good Riddance

~~~
buboard
not all of us agree

------
ned7
Julian Assange has offered humanity a lot more than what humanity can offer
him at anytime. I wonder why the hell would someone get jailed for revealing
the truth.

~~~
missdizzy
So very true and so to the point. He did not only get jailed. He got put in a
solitary cell in a high security jail.. And mentally tortured. And almost
nobody cares..

~~~
whamlastxmas
No one cares because there was maliciously fake news about how he's a bad
house guest and didn't scoop his cat's poop and two women in Sweden wanted to
contact him to tell him to take an STD test and then the police took it upon
themselves to want to question him (not even charge him) about sexual assault.

Assange is going to get Epstein'd

~~~
buboard
i know you 're joking but to be clear (and because apparently there are a lot
of misconceptions abotu the cases) he hasn't been charged with anything like
rape and the allegations are about nonconsensual removal or condom, outlined
in detail here: [https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/4/12/18306901/julian-
ass...](https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/4/12/18306901/julian-assange-
arrest-wikileaks-rape-sweden-embassy)

~~~
whamlastxmas
I used "sexual assault" because that's the term he's likely be alleged of
doing in the US, whereas in Sweden the official term is "rape" for all/most
sexual assault cases. Or so I've heard. Sexual assault I think is an
appropriate term here, though I think the allegations are pretty thin,
contradictory, and suspicious. Swedish officials didn't seem to care much or
at all about making progress on this, since they refused to question/interview
Assange remotely despite him claiming asylum. They seemed to care more about
getting him in custody - a fear that's since been justified by England trying
to extradite him.

~~~
buboard
actually it seems in both cases they consented to sex, despite disagreeing
about the condom

------
55555
It seems like it, but how much power do we have to help?

~~~
peter_retief
I feel so sad and powerless, what can we do against these forces of
disinformation?

~~~
missdizzy
start with informing yourself. think and open your mind. write emails,
letters, petitions. question your politicians, colleagues, yourself. leave
traces of your opinion everywhere. Every one step is a step, however small.
Good luck. At least you're not indifferent.

------
jstewartmobile
is this a glowpost?

------
buboard
he s dangerous to the world and needs to be locked up because reasons until
trump is out of office. That's what people are supposed to think.

~~~
peter_retief
Its important to hold politicians accountable, however is in office.

------
DoreenMichele
We mostly don't care about either people or justice in this world. There's so
much prosaic callousness and awfulness that people simply don't even bother to
notice. It really shouldn't come as some kind of surprise that people are
mostly "fair weather friends" and you can assume they won't have your back
when the chips are down.

