
Sketch 3 released - jrnkntl
http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/
======
EC1
I LOVE Sketch, but I the two issues I have with it are:

First, text is buggy when at an extreme size: [1][2]

To view it properly I have to resize or slightly move my canvas and it somehow
"refreshes" the view.

Second, there is a huge lack of support and little to no tutorials on Sketch.
It's also hard to Google any problems because it's called... Sketch.

I find it ridiculous I have to shell another $50 / $80 for a new version. Just
give me an upgrade for $25.

Also, for any iOS designers, I highly suggest buying Sketch mirror: [3]

You can preview your designs live on your iOS device and move through
different screens, live, while you design. This, and then using LiveReload to
code mockups is super efficient and fun.

[1] [http://cl.ly/image/0g3y1w3i3Y3m](http://cl.ly/image/0g3y1w3i3Y3m)

[2] [http://cl.ly/image/3z3k0x2J151s](http://cl.ly/image/3z3k0x2J151s)

[3] [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sketch-
mirror/id677296955?mt...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sketch-
mirror/id677296955?mt=8)

~~~
gress
Are you seriously saying it isn't worth $50?

~~~
EC1
I'm not made of money. I JUST bought it (before March). Now I have to pay
again, a cost I did not foresee. I also have lots of other software I need to
pay for, so yeah, $50 is quite a hit to the pocket for me.

~~~
swombat
Same - I bought it on 10th Feb, and their cutoff date for getting a free
upgrade is 1st March, not even 20 days later. I emailed to ask if they'd let
me through anyway or allow me to pay a discounted price some other way, and
they fairly curtly told me nope. (I guess the brevity is due to a high volume
of requests, but still felt a bit rude)

Worth noting I am not a professional designer. This is a hobby purchase - so
yes, being hit with an extra $50 expense a month and a half after deciding to
splurge and buy the thing feels harsh.

~~~
gress
You're not hit with a $50 expense. You have exactly what you paid for, and you
can wait as long as you like to decide if you want what is on offer in the
upgrade.

Also, what relevance is the 20 days figure? You owned the product for 63 days
before the upgrade was released.

~~~
swombat
> Also, what relevance is the 20 days figure? You owned the product for 63
> days before the upgrade was released.

The cutoff date for getting version 3 for free is 1st March.

~~~
gress
Right, but you've owned the product for more than 2 months. If they moved the
cutoff date to 63 days, there would be still people saying 'but I was only 20
days before the cutoff', and so on ad infinitum.

How far away from the cutoff you were is irrelevant. What is relevant is how
soon after your purchase the upgrade was made available.

------
relix
In case anyone else was looking for this: Sketch 3 is not a free upgrade like
Sketch 2 was. If you bought Sketch 2 after March 31 you get Sketch 3. For
everybody else, there's no upgrade license, you have to get the full version
even if you own Sketch 2.

The price is $50 until until April 21, then it'll be $80.

Source:
[http://bohemiancoding.tumblr.com/post/82681566874/sketch-3-i...](http://bohemiancoding.tumblr.com/post/82681566874/sketch-3-is-
now-available)

For me the Mac app store (non US) still shows Sketch 2, so I'm assuming
there's some caches that need to expire before everyone will be able to see
it.

~~~
entrode
Developers should start prorating upgrade costs instead of setting arbitrary
cutoff dates for free upgrades to recent purchasers.

So if you release V1 on Jan 1 2013 and I buy it July 2 2013, I should get the
V2 you release Jan 1 2014 for half price. Likewise, someone who buys on Jan 31
2013 should get V2 for 11/12 full price, and someone who buys on Oct 1 2013
should get it for 1/4 full price, etc.

This is in the developer's interest because it discourages people from waiting
to buy if they expect a paid upgrade release soon and it leads to fewer
requests for free upgrades from people who "just missed" the free upgrade
window, for several values of "just missed."

It's also just fair and nice.

~~~
angerman
That's basically a subscription model, no? Say USD80/12mo makes ~USD6.99/mo.
I'm still not sure how I feel about renting software. Even though I feel
that's where our industry is heading with the app stores and their restrictive
pricing model.

~~~
chrisdevereux
I quite like the model where you get a year of major updates but can continue
using the software after the year ends.

Seems to be popular with making developer tools for some reason. MonoTouch,
RubyMotion and Apportable all use it, for example.

~~~
philgr
They'll keep updating, OK. But there's no backwards compatibility in the new
format.

Sketch 2 can't open Sketch 3 files.

Somehow you're forced to update if you intent to keep using Sketch.

~~~
chrisdevereux
That's orthogonal to the pricing model. Same issue with pay-to-upgarade.

------
chestnut-tree
I've always wanted to try Sketch after reading so much positive praise. But
I'm on Windows and I doubt the Sketch team have the resources (or interest) in
producing a Windows version.

For those of us on Windows looking for an alternative to Adobe Illustrator,
here are two possibilities. Neither of these match Illustrator feature-for-
feature, but they're perfectly capable for designing interfaces or web
graphics.

Inkscape: free, open source and cross-platform (Windows/Mac/Linux). It holds
up well against Illustrator and can produce professional-looking results. If
you're familiar with other vector drawing apps, the interface won't feel too
intimidating. If you're a complete newbie, it might take a little while to
learn the interface. Downsides: It doesn't do multi page layouts (not an issue
for everyone). It doesn't feel like a native windows app and can be slow at
times with large or complex drawings. Some of the dialogs are cluttered and
not always clearly laid out. There are tutorials on the web (and books) but
nowhere near the volume you'll find for Illustrator.

[http://www.inkscape.org/en/](http://www.inkscape.org/en/)

Xara Photo and Graphics designer: Windows only ($90/£70). This is fast (faster
than Illustrator) and well featured. The interface in my opinion is better
than Illustrator in many respects. For example, to add a drop shadow, simply
drag out a shadow from a shape. In Illustrator, it's done non-interactively
via a modal pop-up dialog box. You can create multi page layouts (much easier
than Illustrator's clumsy artboard management). Downsides: like inkscape, it
has an enthusiastic community of users but nowhere near the number of learning
resources as Illustrator. It produces anti-aliased images but for web graphics
this can sometimes be problematic because the anti-aliasing is applied to
straight lines too (so you sometimes get slightly blurry straight edges rather
than crisp ones). Illustrator has solved this with its "align to pixel grid"
option.

There is a free trial of the program available

[http://www.xara.com/uk/photo-graphic-designer/](http://www.xara.com/uk/photo-
graphic-designer/)

~~~
tillinghast
There's really no "I doubt…" about it. From the FAQ:

"Is Sketch available for Windows or Linux

Sketch relies on a lot of technology that is exclusive to OS X and the fact
that no other OS provide a clear business model for software development,
we're not considering supporting it."

[http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/support/faq/02-general/5-wi...](http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/support/faq/02-general/5-windows.html)

~~~
cageface
I'm surprised they consider OS X to be a good platform from a business model
perspective. How can you build a sustainable software business without paid
feature upgrades? The first review of Sketch 3 on the store is an underserved
one star complaining about the way they've handled the transition to Sketch 3.

The app store model works fine for throwaway impulse purchases but that seems
like that's about it. Per-unit prices seem to be racing to the bottom the same
way they did in the iOS app store too.

~~~
simonh
You release a new version as a new app and your users buy it again, if they
want to. It does away with 'upgrade pricing', but the idea is you just reduce
the base price of the app to compensate so there's a slightly lower price for
new purchasers, but a slightly higher price for upgrades. It's a different
simpler pricing model, but not an inherently un-viable one.

~~~
cageface
This is nice enough in theory but in practice it doesn't seem to work out so
well. Just look at the ridiculous backlash the developers of Clear suffered
when they had the temerity to charge $2 for a major update.

You're also penalized in search results and app rankings if you have several
distinct apps scattered through the store instead of one app with a long
history of reviews and updates.

~~~
sbarre
Given the thousands of products in the App Store that do quite well (and given
that Sketch 3 was the highest grossing app in the App Store yesterday) I think
your examples are anecdotal at best.

------
betadreamer
For those of you who have the latest Sketch2, here are the major improvements:

1) Symbols - Group of objects that will sync. Although I prefer Unity3D's
prefab approach, it will be useful.

2) Export tool is soo much better. Especially multiple size format. No longer
just 1x or 2x.

3) Bitmap editing. No longer have to open PS for cropping/editing.

4) Vector modes is in UI. No more click/trial/error.

There are other small ones but these are the main advantages.

In my opinion if you are a professional its definitely worth an upgrade. But
for hobbyist like me, these new features are not worth the jump.

~~~
Tloewald
Another example where the lack of upgrade-pricing in the App Store is
infuriating. I'd cheerfully pay a $20 upgrade fee, but it's a tad much to pay
more than I paid for the original app for some minor UI enhancements.

------
psteinweber
Useful app that I use in web design production a lot. I hope version 3 gets
rid of some of the annoyances (e.g. weird behavious and crashes after long
use). A more detailed changelog would be great.

Most annoying thing hasn't changed though: the name. It makes it really hard
to get relevant Google results when searching for bugs, features etc.. Adding
"bohemian coding" helps sometimes, as does adding "app" (but less so). Would
have liked to see "Bohemian Sketch" or "Sketch BC" or something alike.

Let's complete my wishlist with a discount for upgraders (a.k.a. the biggest
fans).

Anyways, will very likely continue using it, no matter how it's called. And
the price is still very competitive compared to Adobe's Photoshop and/or
Illustrator.

~~~
ollysb
Just in case you haven't seen it, [http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/whats-
new/](http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/whats-new/)

~~~
psteinweber
I didn't, thanks!

------
shawndumas
Watch out! the link on the home page goes to the older version. I just bought
the more expensive version 2 when. (In my excitement it never occurred to me
that they didn't update the link and also I am a moron.)

[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1083020/sketch3.mp4](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1083020/sketch3.mp4)

here is the correct link --> [https://fnd.io/#/mac-app/852320343-sketch-3-by-
bohemian-codi...](https://fnd.io/#/mac-app/852320343-sketch-3-by-bohemian-
coding)

~~~
lstamour
FYI, Apple does allow refunds for accidental purchases like this. IIRC, submit
a "Problem with this order" under your account settings.

~~~
Reich
They sure do. You can also go to reportaproblem.apple.com to request a refund,
for the record.

------
pornel
I'm disappointed that even modern applications have poor PNG compression.

With pngquant (--quality=95) and ImageOptim I'm able to make Sketch's
"Exported for web" files literally _3 times smaller_.

~~~
balls187
How does pngquant compare to pngcrush?

And are you not able add this as a build step?

~~~
pornel
pngquant & pngcrush >= pngcrush

pngquant changes pixels in the image, which gives it freedom to make files
much, much smaller than the completely lossless pngcrush can (60-70% vs
10-30%). pngquant-converted files can still be pngcrushed to make them even
smaller.

> are you not able add this as a build step?

I am, but I think it's a shame that it's needed. I think users should be able
to trust that their apps produce good output in the first place, and not need
to hook up 3rd party tools to compress the files well.

~~~
spiralganglion
What ever happened to "Small tools that do one thing well"?

ImageOptim is extremely well-known in the industry. I'd much rather the
developers of my vector drawing tool focus on making a great vector drawing
tool, and let [you] obsess over making the best image compression tools. It's
not just as simple as just bundling pngquant into the export process. You also
have to make an effective UI that implicitly explains to users, "You know that
lossless PNG image format you love? Well, here's a slider to make it do lossy
compression!"

My preference would be, don't even have an Export For Web option. Or if you do
have it, just make it link to ImageOptim!

(Edit: Didn't realize who I was responding to. My team loves and lives by
ImageOptim and ImageAlpha — thank you for them! Even if Sketch had better PNG
export, we'd still be using your tools as part of our development process to
deal with all the other programs that don't get it right.)

~~~
pornel
> What ever happened to "Small tools that do one thing well"?

That's nice in the Unix world, but I think in the OS X land the motto is "it
just works".

I'm glad you use ImageOptim and ImageAlpha, but please obsolete my tools :)

I think of them as a stopgap/bugfix for other tools that don't compress well
themselves.

------
TheBindingVoid
Reusable Symbols like Fireworks! I really do hope they keep picking up the
good parts of Fireworks and create a dedicated, high quality screen design
tool. Because there is none at the moment.

------
AhtiK
Seems to be caching old version of the website for some locations.

[https://twitter.com/marciplan/status/455694272487251968/phot...](https://twitter.com/marciplan/status/455694272487251968/photo/1)
is how the new website must look like. I still get the old version regardless
of how many times I refresh.

Could someone with a new page post the itunes url for Sketch 3 so I can check
the minimum reqs if it's still 10.7? (I'm on OS X 10.7.5 and not all apps
support it these days..)

~~~
arrrg
10.8 or later.

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sketch/id852320343?mt=12](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sketch/id852320343?mt=12)

------
greggman
I just checked out Sketch. I suppose I should give it the benefit of the doubt
but ...

First thing I did was change a font on the intro doc. 2 other places changed
(that was the point). Then picked Undo. It only undid my change, not the 2
others that it auto applied.

Next thing I did was open the iOS Icon template. I made a circle, set it to
gradient fill, dragged the handle of the fill direction, got residual garbage
all over.

[http://imgur.com/ucl4aVF](http://imgur.com/ucl4aVF)

Not a good first impression. Should I be more forgiving?

~~~
lukeholder
I have not seen those issues and i am a long time user, file a bug report,
they are quick to fix things like this.

------
_zen
Do Pixelmator and Sketch 3 complement one another? I already use Pixelmator
and love it.

Unless mistaken, Pixelmator is like Adobe Photoshop and Sketch 3 is like Adobe
Illustrator?

~~~
leemcalilly
I'm wondering the same thing. Is Pixelmator + Sketch the best indie
alternative to Photoshop + Illustrator?

~~~
mortenjorck
If you're looking for something to use for more traditional Illustrator
purposes (graphics, identity design, illustration), you might want to look
into iDraw, which is less UI-focused than Sketch, though both are quite
powerful indie Illustrator replacements.

Pixelmator makes sense if you're actually working with photos, but just like
Photoshop, I wouldn't recommend it for UI design.

------
DigitalSea
One of the very few and highly rare occasions I am jealous of Mac users. As a
Windows user who used to religiously use Adobe Fireworks for all facets of web
design, I am very jealous that Mac users have a decent alternative to
Fireworks after it was discontinued last year.

I think there is a big gap in the market for a company (whether that be
Bohemian Coding or not) to create a program like Sketch for Windows. I read
somewhere a little while ago that there won't be a Sketch for Windows any time
soon, but still holding on to the hope that one day there'll be something at
least like it for Windows. Sketch 3 looks fantastic.

------
lza
Well I don't qualify for the free upgrade and I don't know if I want to pay
for it. The fact is that Sketch 2 is a buggy mess!! I sent a bunch of bug
reports to them and all they were saying I'll like the next major release and
it will be fixed. Don't waste your time with Sketch just download Inkscape and
you'll be good to go. I am probably moving back to it as well.

------
coldcode
I wonder if it still does the stupid duplicate functionality that S2 did which
was totally unlike the past 30 years of drawing program functionality. I
really wanted to like S2 but this turned me off from using it. I guess it will
cost $49 to find out.

I wish Apple would allow trial versions but I know why they don't. It doesn't
matter to them.

~~~
callahad
There's a big "Download Free Trial" button at the bottom of the page.

Edit: Which includes version 2.4.3, rather than 3.0. Doh. Still, it looks like
Bohemian does intend to offer a demo version.

~~~
woodylondon
It looks to have been fixed, Just installed the 3.0 trial from their website.

We have been evaluating a number of wireframing tools for iOS development over
the last few weeks.

Having only played for 3.0 for 20mins, along with this stencil >
[http://www.teehanlax.com/tools/iphone-sketch-
app/](http://www.teehanlax.com/tools/iphone-sketch-app/) (just need them to
convert to the new Stencil) its pretty good. Best I have found so far.

I was about to start work with Omnigraffle which we had ended up with, but
looks like I will be buying Sketch 3.0 end of today if no problems. We also
tried Brief ([http://giveabrief.com/](http://giveabrief.com/)) which concept
wise is amazing but its not ready for prime time yet.

Photoshop was the other way, but unless you are a PS master just slow
workflow.

~~~
coldcode
I like OG for a lot of simple things, but it's not really designed for fancy
graphics but I do use it.

------
kaivi
Just downloaded the demo version and got this:
[http://cl.ly/image/161S1B0d1j3E](http://cl.ly/image/161S1B0d1j3E) Also, the
App Store is still selling Sketch 2, nor is there anything about v3 on their
website.

How do I get the new version and the list of improvements?

~~~
adoyle
I found v3 on the App Store by going to the Sketch 2 page and noticed "More by
Bohemian Coding" on the right side had a link to the Sketch 3 app store page.

------
1st1
One thing I was expecting to see fixed in the next major Sketch version is
accuracy of resizing vector shapes. Suppose I have a big vector icon (or
outlined text-logo), and want to scale it down. When I do this in Sketch, the
scaled down version looks crippled.

~~~
sponno
Use the scale button to resize vectors to a radically different size. It will
resize you borders and shadows correctly. Or Edit > Scale. By default you
don't want you shape boarder size changing when you resize. So sketch uses the
scale button to fix this. Awesome.

------
seymores
I am a big fan of Sketch. That said, I really hope they give some discount for
upgrade.

~~~
bratsche
It's already discounted right now. It's only $50. The normal price is already
pretty reasonable at $80.

~~~
swombat
That's launch pricing, not upgrade pricing.

------
jasallen
Anyone know if you can open a multiple artboard .ai file with Sketch? Well, it
opened, but I can only see the first artboard. Hoping I'm missing an option
somewhere?

~~~
sushi
Export .ai files to PDF and then you can open it with Sketch.

------
dogduty
Please stop complaining about having to pay $50 for an upgrade. That wouldn't
even get you 2 months adobe subscription. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade.

------
mengto
Sketch is by far the best UI design application out there.

------
leemcalilly
Is this a good replacement for Illustrator? I need something that allows me to
edit and create vector logos, etc.

The other option I'm looking at is iDraw.

~~~
lukeholder
very good replacement and deceptively advanced.

------
zeel
They still haven't fixed the "Set Style as Default" bug for fills on the
vector tool.

------
SneakerXZ
How does Sketch compare to Photoshop for web design and mobile design?

~~~
matthewking
Sketch is more of a replacement for Fireworks than Photoshop, as in its purely
a vector design tool and therefore much better suited to web design. I never
really understood why so many people used Photoshop for that task.

If you're looking for a replacement for Photoshop though id recommend
Pixelmator.

------
jasonlotito
It mentions it's for mobile design and talks in general terms, but I'm getting
a sense it's limited to just iOS? Is there support for Android?

~~~
jrnkntl
The mobile design you do in Sketch is of course not limited to any platform.
However, I think you're refering to the companion app Sketch Mirror [1] that
shows live changes to your design on your phone; that one is iOS only.

[1]
[http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/features/#mirror](http://bohemiancoding.com/sketch/features/#mirror)

~~~
jasonlotito
I wasn't referring to Sketch Mirror, but Sketch itself. But thanks for the
clarification. It just seemed very iOS centric, and while I understood Mirror
was a specific feature itself, it reinforced the notion of iOS only. But
thanks for clarifying. I'm glad I asked.

------
mbrutsch
Meh, Mac.

~~~
josefresco
While your brief comment will probably be downvoted to oblivion I too am
wishing there was a Sketch for Windows. With Fireworks being canned, I'm
worried about what tool I'll use next for web design.

~~~
drivingmenuts
"Fireworks being canned" what?!?!?

~~~
coldtea
Fireworks has been killed. Since like a year or so.

Adobe just still offers CS6, to eventually kill, and has never upgraded it to
CC.

[http://blogs.adobe.com/fireworks/2013/05/the-future-of-
adobe...](http://blogs.adobe.com/fireworks/2013/05/the-future-of-adobe-
fireworks.html)

------
hit8run
Aaaaaaaand BOUGHT :D

------
pawelkomarnicki
Pah, another iterative upgrade with a hefty price tag...

~~~
gress
$50 is hefty?

~~~
pawelkomarnicki
Yes, it is hefty, because I already paid for Sketch 2 and I _still remember_
the time when Apple was peacocking that "buying from the AppStore you get the
future updates for free"

~~~
kraigspear
You can't stay in business selling one version of your software to customers
long term. If you can't stay in business then there are no new features and
the product dies. I understand when laypeople don't understand the software
business, but you expect more from the development community.

