
E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need - rhinoh
https://www.routefifty.com/infrastructure/2019/12/e-bikes-cities-infrastructure-changes/162151/
======
underbluewaters
I've been commuting using a class-1 (limited to 20 mph) e-bike around Santa
Barbara, CA for the last year and it is a dream. Far better experience than I
expected. It won't work in all cities but if you have reasonable bike lanes
switching over from a car can have many benefits.

    
    
      1. Cost. Sure it's a high initial outlay (3k) but I'm not paying for insurance, gas, parking, and auto loan payments.
      2. Faster. I can hop on my bike, ride to my building at 20mph, and park in my office. No dealing with paid parking in the city and walking from the lot.
      3. Better for my physical and mental health. The daily exercise, fresh air, and feeling of connection to the bustle of the streets makes me happier.
    

If you have a short commute and have a safe route to work or errands I highly
recommend giving it a try. Being able to pick up speed and keep up with
traffic helps make it much safer and easier than a non-assist bike.

~~~
ouid
If you're commuting with cars, there is no sense in which the air you are
breathing is "fresh"

~~~
underbluewaters
You are right about that. I'm hoping eventually this will become popular
enough that cities will open more dedicated bike paths separate from traffic.
I've even heard rumors of our city closing and dedicating the main street
downtown for bikes and pedestrians.

~~~
q845712
I would also add that Santa Barbara generally has some of the most delicious
air i've experienced in a place that still has restaurants, stores, jobs, etc.
It surely gets worse with proximity-to and volume-of car traffic but overall
the air quality here vs. other places i've lived is noteworthy[0]. (0: except
when there's fires.)

~~~
saagarjha
> except when there's fires

Which is a given in the winter :(

------
nkingsy
I ebike 20 miles for work every day and live it.

I don’t use my ebike for small errands because it’s too easy to just rip
expensive stuff off of it while locked up.

Also, the picture shows a rider with no helmet which is insane. I wear a
motorcycle helmet and leathers. The speed limit for ebikes on roads in CA is
28, which is deadly with even a normal bike helmet.

Finally the article says that the new models are lighter because they’ve
integrated battery in frames.

Totally false, the weight is not significantly lower and the in-frame battery
means when your battery wears out in 3-10 years, you’ll have to pay the maker
to replace it if it’s possible at all.

I highly recommend converting yourself using a bafang bbshd

~~~
retrovm
Helmets are for sports. Ebikes have a ~50% market share in Belgium where
approximately nobody wears a helmet ever. It's really not an issue.

~~~
ChuckNorris89
Helmets are for any activity that has an impact risk to your head which
includes cycling not just sports.

I live in Austria where few cyclists wear helmets yet my girlfriend who works
in the local hospital sees patients coming in with serious head injuries on a
daily basis from biking accidents that could have easily been prevented by
wearing a helmet. Since then we both wear our helmets religiously.

You don't even have to get hit by a car. An unfortunate collision with a
texting pedestrian, some dog on a leash jumping in front of you or another
cyclist could be enough to smack your melon on the asphalt.

Just because you hear Europeans aren't wearing helmets doesn't mean it's the
model to follow. I see wearing a helmet the same as wearing a seatbelt. Sure I
never needed it since I never had an accident and it feels slightly
uncomfortable but I know it could save my life.

It's up to you how much you value your head.

I highly doubt ebikes have a 50% share in Belgium. Do you have any references
on that claim? Last year I visited Belgium's 4 major cities and almost every
cyclist I saw was on some old half broken bicycle.

~~~
derekp7
I think the biggest reason people don't see a bicycle helmet as necessary is
from personal experience. I grew up on the 70's, long before kids helmets were
in vogue. And I had several bicycle accidents.

Once I hit a curb, went over the handlebars, and skinned up my hands/knees and
my wrists hurt pretty bad for a week or so after. Another time I wiped out at
the bottom of a hill, tore a huge gash in the side of my knee. Then there was
the time I chipped a tooth on a curb when trying to ride no-handed.

In all the falls I experienced, none of them involved a head injury that a
helmet would have prevented (the chipped tooth incident could have been
prevented by wearing a mouth guard, or by not being stupid). So based on that,
it feels like helmets are useless.

Of course, in reality there is a huge difference between a kid riding a
bicycle at single-digit MPH on neighborhood streets and back-woods trails, vs.
going 15 - 20 MPH on roads or paved trails. At those speeds, it would probably
be impossible for me to break my fall using just hands and feet, not to
mention the possibility of getting distracted hand running into a street sign
or tree branch. Logically I'm aware of all this, but still I have trouble with
maintaining proper helmet discipline.

~~~
maccam94
Your anecdotes of falling without hitting your head aren't very relevant. And
if you had such an accident, you might not be capable of posting here.

~~~
unicornporn
[https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-
to...](https://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to-wear-bike-
helmets)

------
jsinai
I’ve started using Uber’s Jump bikes in London to avoid changing tubes
(sometimes this is possible) and the experience is revelatory. Cycling on the
road by e-bike is quieter, easier and more effortless compared to changing
tubes at a busy junction. For my journey the time is also identical. The
benefits of course include getting fresher air and exercise (e-bikes still
require your own energy)

------
siffland
I ride a motorcycle to work almost everyday (today's 47 degree ride was a bit
brisk) and i have to say, drivers don't look out for bikes, and this is a
major city (San Antonio).

My big issues with motorized bicycles are lanes to ride and rules of the road.
I see people riding them on sidewalks, in streets, and in bike lanes. It is
almost like people on motorcycles who ride in the break down lane or lane
split (both of which are illegal in Texas).

We already had/have a HUGE problem with the escooters, people getting run down
by kids on the sidewalks and riding them in traffic downtown.

I am for this 100%, but please put down infrastructure and some sort of rules
of the road and enforce it.

~~~
diabeetusman
> I see people riding them on sidewalks, in streets, and in bike lanes

Where are you suggesting that they ride?

~~~
downerending
Not on sidewalks. Pedestrians can and do change direction on a dime, and on a
sidewalk, they always have the right of way.

Adding high-speed (i.e., greater than five mph) vehicles to that mix is a
recipe for disaster.

~~~
alisonatwork
There are some simple rules pedestrians can follow that make commuting easier
for everyone. Move at a steady pace. Don't stop or change lanes without doing
a shoulder check. Look both ways before crossing the flow of traffic.

This not only makes it easier to share the sidewalk with vehicles, it also
improves the flow when there are a lot of foot commuters with different
walking speeds.

I live in a city where pedestrians frequently share the sidewalk with both
bicycles and electric mopeds. It works because people pay attention to what's
going on around them and generally work together to try keep the traffic
flowing smoothly.

~~~
asdff
That sort of rule of thumb works fine with an abled bodied sober and alert
adult, but throw in someone with a disability, an elderly person, a toddler,
and suddenly it makes far more sense to have the bike/moped on the road and
just offer the gutter at the very least for a bike lane. A road bike can kill
a toddler.

~~~
alisonatwork
Usually the way it works here is if a rider sees a kid or older person then
they will slow down to walking pace and only pass when it's safe. Pedestrians
still have right of way, after all.

I am not against dedicated roads for bikes (although depending on the city's
density, they can just end up as a second sidewalk), but I also think it
shouldn't be treated as a prerequisite for developing a bike culture.

~~~
downerending
For many years I rode and was in favor of "bike culture". Now that I finally
live in such a place, though, it's quite clear that this experiment is a
failure. Bicyclists ride as they like, without respect to laws or even likely
tragedies, and there is no countervailing force to reign them in. I cannot
walk a block without observing a bicyclist breaking a law or risking someone's
life (often their own).

If bicyclists want this mode of transportation to be taken seriously, they
need to start self-policing in a major way. So far I'm seeing not even a hint
of that.

------
atoav
As a life long cyclist (half of that time in big european cities, half on the
countryside) I doubt that the muscle power to propell your bicycle forward is
the issue that blocks a wide adoption of the vehicle.

As far as I can tell the (by far) biggest issue is the perceived risk involved
which boils down to mostly two things: infrastructure and adoption.

Better infrastructure demands you not to be as hardcore to start riding the
bike — more adoption makes cycling more normal and therefore safer (motorists
and pedestrians start to think more about cyclists, which means less dangerous
situations occur).

How to get people to cycle is also something that you can figure out by places
where this worked (e.g. the Netherlands, Denmark etc.) instead of trying to
create new products to sell.

~~~
IshKebab
I think you underestimate how lazy people are. Hell, I cycle every day to work
and there are still plenty of times where I wish I could drive instead because
I don't feel like bothering.

Ebikes will absolutely change that. Risk is a factor but not a hugely
significant one (at least in Europe - possibly in America where you'd have to
be a bit crazy to cycle on most roads).

The main barrier to ebikes being popular is their cost, and the perception of
them being for lazy people.

~~~
atoav
Lazy people won’t take an ebike unless _all_ the infrastructure favours
cyclists and everything else is worse.

Ebikes are cool for older people tho: I know a guy who has one and he told me,
since he has it he hardly uses anything else. His incentive was to be able to
cycle normally, but take the electric aid when there is a steep hill or when
he gets tired.

I think this is a much more realistic use case: people who really _want_ to
cycle, but live in hilly areas, feel insecure about their energy managment or
have long distances to cover.

The real lazy ones you descripe will take the subway, the train or the car if
they can afford it. Because sitting in the wind and weather on a bicycle takes
a little bit of motivation, regardless of electrification. Having the courage
to drive through a big city plays a even bigger role, as I mentioned. This
obviously depends on where you are — certain cities are a charm to cycle in,
where others make you feel downright suicidal even as a live long cyclist.

~~~
IshKebab
> The real lazy ones you descripe will take the subway, the train or the car
> if they can afford it.

In most cities there _is_ no subway or train. And cars have significant
downsides in cities even if you can afford them - you have to deal with
traffic and parking, and you have to take the car with you - no one-way
journeys.

Why do you think electric scooters are popular?

~~~
atoav
> Why do you think electric scooters are popular?

Are they really? Where I live the numbers dropped as soon as the summer ended
and where I saw at least ten people a day I didn’t saw a single one in two
weeks even when the weather was nice.

However the plural of annecdote is not data — do you happen to know any data
on that?

------
as-j
I think this would be amazing for some cities. I've used a electric
motorcycle/scooter to commute around San Francisco for 3 years now, and it
made me fall in love with the city again. I've used Jump e-bikes to get around
as well instead of Uber/Lyfts when I can. (I'd use them more, but their
service area stop a mile from my house)

Sadly I think SF is a good special case where it works well most of the year:

1\. City is pretty compact. It's not exactly 7mix7mi, but not far off either.

2\. Weather is pretty good most of the year. (no ice/snow/freezing rain, etc)
Yes you can cycle in fog. ;)

3\. Speed limit is 20mph in residential, and 30mph on busier roads, but
congestion generally makes the impossible. Bike lanes are normally free.

4\. Bike lanes/paths/routes are expanding throughout the city. Including
nicely protected routes.

5\. Parking and Gas are expensive here. I was just in Texas and filled up a
car for < $20. I can't remember when I did that last.

Sure it's a dream, and I wish the article would come true here. Imagine how
cool it would be to have tons of bikes on the road and so many less cars/ICE
zooming around? Ok, maybe I'm just not a car person. ;)

There are hiccups though:

1\. Carrying groceries/etc. You can't get a shopping cart full and take it
home.

2\. Kids...getting them to school. Cargo bikes here are an option, but they
need to be a certain age and I do worry about safety. :/

3\. It does rain...and ridding in the rain sucks. Most parts of the US get it
so much worse though, it feels hard to complain.

4\. Commuting via bike to work does take time/effort. Carrying a change of
clothes, showering, etc, etc.

~~~
zip1234
Cities need to remove car lanes and add protected bike lanes to really
increase adoption. Most parents would not let their kids ride on the road with
cars. The car always wins and cars are very dangerous. As far as the schools--
they used to be smaller and more local. Now schools always seem to be built on
the periphery of a town, take up a massive amount of space and are pretty much
designed only for cars/busses. Cars cause cities to be built in ways that are
only car-friendly. Hopefully e-bikes provide a revolution in that regard to
make other forms of transit equally viable.

------
choward
The main reason I prefer renting e-bikes instead of using my own bike isn't
the electric power. It's the convenience and not having to worry about my bike
getting stolen. If I only want to bike one way and not round trip, no worries.

If I was to own an e-bike, I would want to not have to worry about it getting
stolen. Everything would have to be like e-bikes you rent. All the parts would
need to be integrated and not easily removable (lights, seat, etc). I don't
want to waste 5 minutes locking/unlocking my bike every time I want to stop
somewhere and have to carry around my lights. I would also want GPS so I can
track my bike if it gets stolen. Until I have I bike like that, I will
continue to buy the cheapest crappiest bikes I can find or rent bikes because
people suck.

~~~
wffurr
My non-e-bike has bolts in place of quick releases for wheels and saddle and a
bolted-on dynamo-powered headlight. That essentially eliminates component
theft. It takes about 20 seconds to use my u-lock to attach to a convenient
pole or bike rack.

It's really quite simple to make your bike a less attractive target for theft.

~~~
Lio
One of my bikes is a Brompton mainly for theft reasons.

As a alternative to using a bike lock I just fold it up and bring it with me.

It’s still a heavy lump to carry any distance but it fits under a desk just
great.

(Amusingly they now make an ebike Brompton too).

------
blunte
Whenever I go looking online at e-bikes, I'm always dismayed by what seems
like artificially inflated pricing. It's difficult to believe that the
engineering and manufacturing of most of these bikes justifies their 100+%
premium over standard bikes.

There are some very clever e-bikes, and perhaps their prices are reasonable.
But there are a lot of bikes which are standard models with an added Bosch
motor on the crank and a battery clipped to the frame.

~~~
bjourne
Both the US and EU has put heavy tariffs on Chinese made ebikes. That has
caused domestic manufacturers to increase their prices too.

------
gonkhair
For the past six months I've been driving my car 13 miles on the motorway to
the city park-and-ride, then taking my folding e-bike out of the boot and
cycling the last couple of miles to work.

I use the building's freight lift and keep the cycle behind my desk. Work
visitors INSIST on touching the handlebars whilst talking to me.

I wear hi-viz (ISO 20471 Class III) hardshell jacket/softshell jacket and
cycle helmet. I have daylight blinkers at front and back of cycle. Also,
Bring-Bring bell.

I get "Nice Bike" on the way in, and on the way out. Car appears to be moping.

------
Callmenorm
I think e-bikes will be very successful, but you have to get the product into
the people's hands. It's hard to know what an e-bike is like until you try it.
They are so fun, and getting fresh air will almost certainly make you more
happy.

But trying to convince people of that without putting them on an e-bike is
kind of hard.

~~~
sailfast
Agreed, especially given the 2-4K you have to plonk down on some of these
things. They sound great, but I haven't yet used them. The money thing is a
barrier, and I'm a one-car family looking for options.

For that kind of money, you're buying a pretty solid scooter or a cheap car.
Nevermind if you want a cargo bike or Bakfiets. Having the infrastructure /
city planning to make this worthwhile is definitely an important second part.
I'm not going to park a $4K bike just anywhere.

------
seniorsassycat
I've ridden 5,000 miles on my ebike in two years. The e assist flattens hills
and shrinks the city. I can use my bike to get anywhere in Seattle in
reasonable time. I regularly beat the bus and I've tied with ride shares more
than once.

------
harshaw
If you are a road cyclist, the plus of getting an ebike is that you can now do
rides where your SO/friend rides your ebike and you ride your regular bike.
This has enabled me to do rides with my wife (who is a bit shorter but fits on
the ebike) where normally the difference in pace would be... painful.

------
heyflyguy
Seems pie in the sky to get adoption of e-bikes in places like my home state
of Texas. Our city has e-bikes for rent all along the city biking system, very
cheap too!

These bikes are available for rent nearly all of the time, except for when we
close down a few streets for the spring fair. So, adoption isn't going to
happen very fast in places where there is no appetite. We have cheap gas here
and A/C in our cars.

~~~
big_chungus
You're right that A/C and heat is a big factor; forget being able to shower
there, no one likes exercising in one hundred ten-degree heat. Distance is a
problem too, though: in cities lots of people commute 40+ miles to work each
way, which isn't really feasible by bike. Thinking about when I got started
working as hourly, I would never have spent two or three times the time
because that would have a serious opportunity cost, so probably never an
option for hourly workers.

~~~
wffurr
e-bikes help substantially with heat. Less effort for the same speed means
more wind and less sweating.

No one is proposing e-bikes for 40+ mile commutes. That can only be replaced
by commuter rail and in-fill housing.

Half of all car trips are less than 15 miles and a lot of those could be
replaced with e-bikes.

------
reddog
No thank you. In my 40 years of driving I've been in two accidents. Both times
I was rear-ended while waiting to make a lefthand turn. Both times were major
inconveniences that made me late for work and cost me time and money to
resolve but no one was injured in the slightest.

Had I been on a e-bike/scooter/moped I would have certainly been badly injured
and possibly killed.

Give me 3000 lbs of steel, multiple crumple zones, smart 3 point seatbelts,
anti-lock brakes, traction control, active head restraints, forward-collision
warning, automatic emergency braking, blind-spot warning and 23 airbags if I
am traveling over 20mph. Especially if I've got family in the car.

~~~
maccam94
I do not sit in the middle of the road waiting to make a left turn on a bike.
That just seems way too dangerous. Instead I ride through the intersection to
the right side of the cross street, and wait to go straight through after the
light changes.

------
benfrancom
You could also use a regular bike by moving closer to work. I've been biking
for nearly 9 years to work, church, dentist, and the dr's office. They are all
within a 3 mile radius. It's highly addictive, and a great form of exercise.

It's my understanding that the toxins produced from mining the minerals for
batteries, and recycling them isn't great for the environment.

I'm still interested in an e-bike though, or adding a motor to a bike for the
days where everyone else's pollution causes an inversion, and I can't breathe
too well.

------
tartoran
I use a Solowheel unicycle. It is perfect for me to run my errands around my
neighboorhood but wouldn't use it to commute to work. The only problem so far
is that they are rather on the heavy side otherwise i'd commute between public
transportation and the final destination. They seem hard to ride but once you
spend 10 hours on one it becomes second nature, almost easier than walking..

~~~
edanm
Have you ever tried a mini segway? That's what I use, and I'm wondering how
the Solowheel compares.

~~~
tartoran
The solowheel is very portable and flexible in terms of maneuvrability, though
a bit heavy to carry for long distances. Because it only has one wheel you can
get better angles and turn faster. It is very fun to ride and a light workout.
The segway I haven’t tried one but I’ll most likely enjoy it. I’ll try one
when I get the chance.

------
peterwwillis
I use an e-scooter rather than e-bike because 1) it's more compact 2) it's
relatively cheaper 3) I only go short distances 4) I'm a lazy s.o.b.

Some people will need to sit while riding. Some people need to haul stuff.
Some people may need to travel farther. Some people may prefer having weather-
shielding. Future cities should allow for a range of micromobility options,
not just one thing.

~~~
ben-schaaf
I wanted to make that same choice for the same reasons, but they turned out to
be illegal to ride in public where I live (Sydney). Instead I bought an e-bike
and it was probably the best purchase I've ever made.

------
paultopia
Hmm. For my part, as a frequent bicycle rider, I really hate e-bikes. The
reason is that it feels like I have much, much less control over speed.

Especially in situations where there's a lot of traffic or when for safety
purposes one needs to ride slowly (e.g., in a shared-use space where there are
also pedestrians around, like a college campus or something), being able to
bike _slowly_ is really nice.

On a real bike, I can bike slowly just by gearing down and pedaling very
slowly. But on an e-bike, any pedaling at all makes it zip forward. I find
that, frankly, terrifying, like I'm about to plow into cars or objects all the
time, or I'm just riding the brakes.

~~~
acomjean
I think you haven’t used a good ebike. I have a ebike with the shimano steps
motor. I’ve been riding it almost a year commuting, and it’s very sublte and
natural the way it adds power to my pedaling. There is a torque sensor and
pedal speed sensor that makes all this happen.

I switch to my steel frame street/mountain bike without power assist and it
just feels like I’m riding a heavier bike (which it isn’t)

------
milkytron
For those who have e-bikes, what are your thoughts on riding them without the
motor assistance? Is it heavy and difficult? Do they have battery regeneration
from breaking?

I've been on the fence about getting one, and normally ride a crappy hybrid
bike to and from work every day, which an e-bike would be useful for. But I
also do 40+ mile trips on weekends and am afraid that if the battery dies,
I'll be lugging a heavy bike around and exerting extra effort compared to a
bike without a battery.

~~~
rwem
It’s basically impossible. Unpowered hub motors drag a lot. Unpowered mid-
drives are better because they have clutches or freewheels, but you’re still
pedaling a fifty-pound bike. Some ebikes do have regeneration triggered by
brake lever switches but it’s pretty rare. Others have a regeneration mode
switch. Most just don’t bother.

What you should understand about these bikes is the power delivered by the
motor, and the power needed to recharge batteries in a useful time frame,
greatly exceeds the continuous power a human would normally exert on the
pedals.

~~~
mdorazio
Not sure I agree with that. It really depends on both the rider and bike. You
can get a lighter weight (obviously with less range/power) mid-drive e-bike
that is still manageable unpowered if you're not a small rider. It certainly
isn't fun, but I've done it just fine on mostly-level ground with a sub-40lb
bike.

Note that I have fond memories of pedalling girls around on the back of my
unassisted bike back in the day, so I might not be an average rider.

------
carapace
Just wanted to point out the "GeoOrbital" wheel. It's an all-in-one battery-
motor-wheel that can replace the front wheel of most conventional bikes in a
minute or two. Presto! New eBike.

[https://www.geoo.com/](https://www.geoo.com/)

(Hmm, I can't reach their site at the moment.)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoOrbital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoOrbital)

~~~
scarejunba
The Copenhagen Wheel
[https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/copenhagenwheel](https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/copenhagenwheel)
does the same with the backwheel and the website currently works. I saw a guy
with it in SF at a signal and asked him how he liked it and he said "I love
it!" so there's a random anecdote.

~~~
carapace
Ah, that's a beautiful, elegant design.

The geoorbital comes off in a jiffy and you can take it with you (e.g. when
you have to lock you bike outside) but the Copenhagen is so stylish.

------
loa_in_
Also interesting alternatives that start to pop up are electric personal
transportation vehicles like EUC (electric unicycle), e-scooters and similar.

I'm personally using EUC to work in food delivery and I commute to and from
area of work. I can make 130km a day with peak speed of 25mph. This is my
between-programming-jobs endeavour. I also commuted 10miles one way to my
office and it allowed me to skip traffic jams.

------
asdff
As a former bike commuter, the elephant in the room is safety and security. I
put up with the abysmal bike lane network in LA, but my bike, along with
everyone else's parked in the rack, was stolen from the gated and surveilled
garage in my building. LAPD filed a report and that was that.

Even when I had my bike, I would never lock it out of sight. Cable lock or
$200 U lock, they all fail.

------
Noos
Not really. You still have the same issues normal bikes have; all ebikes do is
give power assist and more or less fill the same niche a gas or electric moped
does, for the same price as a gas or electric moped.

You still have no real cargo capacity, you can't transport passengers, you are
exposed to the elements, and more. While the power assist is of considerable
benefit, it puts the price of the bike up immensely; many are the prices of a
used motorcycle or scooter.

I feel its much better to get a 4 cycle scooter or motorcycle for that; if i'm
spending 3k plus on a bike, getting one that can actually do traffic or be on
roads is a plus. Yes there is licensing, but ebikes will fall under your
states moped laws anyways and may require having an actual drivers license
instead of a motorcycle endorsement.

------
ericol
A while ago, I was seriously considering buying a bike (A regular one, 110
CC). I didn't because there's no way in hell my partner will let me ride it
for the main purpose that I wanted to buy it for, take our 6 yo to school (as
I wanted to buy it mainly for that, as riding a bike is much faster in the
city where I live, Buenos Aires).

I just went to the site where I do all my purchases, and that same bike is at
the same price tag as an ebike of medium quality.

I reckon this country is a little particular when it comes to economics, but
buying an ebike is far from cheap around here. Until that changes, the bulk of
people will use just regular means of transport in this country.

Besides that, I do think that electric vehicles are the best way to move
around for distances in the low miles.

~~~
netsharc
How about cargo bikes, also sometimes called Christiania bikes:
[https://www.christianiabikes.com/uk/category/models/](https://www.christianiabikes.com/uk/category/models/)
? I've seen people transport kids in them, their lower center of gravity make
it safer for the kids.

They even have e-models..

------
endymi0n
Truly written by a non-disabled twentysomething in Southern California who
gets his groceries by delivery service.

Don't get me wrong, I bike every day there's no ice on the streets and really
enjoy driving those Uber e-bikes too, but seriously: any mobilty solution
that's aimed as a "revolution" can't go around people with disabilities, heavy
rain, northern winters, multiple kids, 10km+ commuters, elderly people and
transportation of more than 10kg of cargo.

If you're coming with cargo bicycles, you haven't tried parking one in an
"already-convinced" city, also go read the above sentence again.

~~~
elktea
I don't like this line of thinking. The majority of the population (including
children) is not disabled and is capable of riding an electric assisted bike -
no one is proposing disabled people _must_ also do the same.

It feels like a "gotcha". "Aha! because _I_ cannot do this, no one can!"

------
SubuSS
I am all for E-Bikes, they put the relatively unused bike lanes to good use
from what I see: Awesome stuff.

I do suggest some bike handling skills and helmet for anyone who tries though:
You're still on a bike fully exposed to the world. Only now you're doing 25mph
down a trail beset by jaywalking peds and lane jumping cars.

Do some high speed stops / slick road training - learn how to handle bad
situations. Ride safe and wave at us on manpowered models :)

------
purplezooey
Still concerned about getting clipped by a careless driver of a 5000lb.
machine. It's unfortunate.

------
MaupitiBlue
Thinking of converting an old trek. Anyone have thoughts on front / rear wheel
drive?

~~~
denimnerd42
the rear frame is much stronger than the front fork so a rear wheel drive is
what i'd recommend unless you have a sturdy steel fork.

come join our discussion at the ebike discord
[https://discord.gg/6fRvwSx](https://discord.gg/6fRvwSx)

~~~
stefan_
Motor forces are entirely insignificant over what wheels, fork and frame
experience when you are hard braking (primarily, of course, through the front
brake).

No, the bigger issue with front drive is that the front wheel has less weight
over it (so significantly less traction) and that should it ever lose
traction, you are more or less guaranteed to crash while the rear wheel
slipping is perfectly recoverable. This is exacerbated since a human motor
knows not to turn the power on going through a turn in the wet, but e-bike
motors don't bring any such intelligence.

~~~
denimnerd42
a direct drive motor weighs 8-10kg so hanging that off the front of the fork
will increase all forces, not just the ones by the motor.

------
clSTophEjUdRanu
The jump bikes in Providence Rhode Island have gotten completely trashed.
Gangs of criminals were dismantling them, selling parts, using them in crimes,
chucking them in the river, etc.

------
Kyragem
In The Netherlands which is the biking Mecca of the world, last year more than
400,000 e-bikes were sold. It helps that the cities hundreds of years ago were
designed for horses and not for cars. Notably a lot of elderly use e-bikes
which not only keeps them fit but notably increases the range that they
travel.

------
blakesterz
The actual title is a little bit different on the site:

"Here Come the Electrics. Could E-Bikes Be the Electric Revolution Cities
Need?"

You can also apply Betteridge's Law of Headlines to the real one easier :-)

------
intc
Hmm. What about a regular bike which one moves with muscle power? Had a nice
~85 km afternoon loop today. =)

~~~
Pigo
You're talking to people who sit in front of computers most of the day, lol

~~~
retrovm
I have a suspicion that our industry harbors an above-average number of
bicyclists.

~~~
Pigo
I agree. I was just joking. I've been enjoying biking more the past year
especially. There's some really great bikes these days.

------
guelo
Why are ebikes a revolution while mopeds have been around for decades? It
seems like they fill the same niche.

~~~
retrovm
You need a special license for mopeds in many jurisdictions, they weigh 100+
pounds, double what an e-bike weighs, and because of the fuel system you can't
really just carry it up the stairs and leave it in your kitchen at night.

~~~
OGWhales
Dang, they are known are liquor cycles where I am from... on account of people
with DUI charges being able to use them still.

Agreed on the second point.

------
riversflow
This is a fantasy in the US, change my view.

We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people. And, as other comments point
out, there would have to be a sacrifice in terms of automobiles for this to
truly work. I find it highly doubtful that Americans would be willing to make
that trade. Also, I think that if it came up there would be significant push
back from groups you wouldn’t expect, like the disabled or union trade
workers. This “bicycles will fill the gap” is a fantasy of Boujie urbanites
and the aristocracy. We talk about how the middle/lower class feels a sense of
generational wealth loss, a major push to move people to bicycles from cars
would really drive(no pun intended) that message home.

And this is coming from someone who enjoys taking a bike instead of driving.

~~~
meej
You've got this entirely backwards. E-Bikes are an enabling factor for
overweight people to start using bikes more. I know because I am one, my BMI
is 33 and it's one of the main driving factors behind my decision to acquire
an e-bike in 2018. (Another driving factor is the fact that my commute home
involves an elevation gain of ~550ft, which would be tough even if I was not
obese. I had been a bike commuter when I lived in the Bay Area but after
moving to Portland I had a longer commute with more hills and I couldn't make
it work with my old bike.)

The biggest barriers to people in the US riding bikes more are having enough
safe bicycling infrastructure to make trips feasible without having to go too
far out of their way for a safe trip and having secure parking at their
destination. These are solvable problems if we have the will to do so.

I admit I'm lucky, I live in Portland where we have a pretty good greenway
network -- I encounter very few cars on my commute -- and I work at Oregon
Health & Science University, so I get to park my bike at the largest bicycle
parking lot in North America before I hop on the Portland Aerial Tram for the
last leg of my commute. Plus I get a commute incentive of $1.50 every day I
ride. OHSU does have unique incentives to limit employee driving -- the city
limits how much employee parking we have, so spots are limited. Daily parking
passes are expensive and sell out quickly; you can expect to wait at least
seven years for a permanent parking pass. The bus takes 20-40 minutes longer
than my bike ride depending on transfer connection timing. The e-bike is my
best commute option, hands down. Even in the rain, it's far more enjoyable.

I'm actually on my second e-bike; my first one was my old bike converted with
a GeoOrbital Wheel. That was great until it started malfunctioning, and it was
the second time I sent it back to the company for service that I decided to
invest in a new e-bike with a larger battery and more range. Now I not only
commute by bike, I've acquired a cheap cargo trailer so I can do my grocery
shopping, I ride it to therapy appointments, and I even rode it to a Trail
Blazers game once (we have a set of secure BikeLink lockers at the Rose
Quarter Transit Center, which I first used in the Bay Area and something
Portland needs more of). Portland's climate means I can ride nearly year-
round; I won't ride when the streets are icy but that's pretty rare around
here.

I am really, really close to being car-free and my e-bike is the reason why. I
recommend everyone try riding one at least once.

~~~
riversflow
Nice! I just don’t think you fully appreciate how privileged your position is.
Giving up car ownership is extremely privileged. You have a good, salaried
job, with I’m assuming flexible and encouraging employers. You have enough
money for therapy and urban rent (and Blazers tickets!) and enough free time
to bike everywhere, and I’m guessing decent health insurance to boot. You also
are completely devoid of responsibilities for others. No kids to take to
soccer games, no family members of friends in the hospital or who need taking
care of. You can afford to fly/hire a driver to travel. I’d venture a guess
that most Americans aren’t in a position like this. It’s a lot easier to
physically exert yourself to get to work when most of your needs are met. You
most likely have an okay boss and at least somewhat enjoyable work. For a lot
of people their commute is one of their only times of respite, and it seems
they like to drive a car in comfort during that time, it’s why Americans spend
so much money on luxury cars (and as a form conspicuous consumption). People
of means are quick to forget how important 10 minutes can be when you’re poor
and that a car serves as a backup place to sleep and store your effects. It’s
not just a dangerous status symbol for everyone.

But back to my main point. I just don’t see Americans as a whole adopting
bicycles. Able bodied people will routinely wait in line in for minutes in
parking lots to park 100’ closer and wait in line(also for minutes) for the
elevator to go up three floors. Not everyone is overweight/obese because they
are unmotivated, you obviously aren’t, but I would wager based on my
experiences that most Americans aren’t motivated(by much beside sloth), and I
don’t see how an elected body is going to change our infrastructure enough to
motivate people. AARP is a big lobby, and have 0 interest in cedeing roads or
sidewalks to bicyclist.

~~~
meej
While I agree that I am privileged, I disagree that biking, particularly to
work, is. The data bears this out: [https://www.vox.com/2014/7/9/5883823/its-
not-just-hipsters-o...](https://www.vox.com/2014/7/9/5883823/its-not-just-
hipsters-on-bikes-cycling-is-most-popular-for-poor-people)

Some of your arguments ring true for traditional bikes but I think they are
less true for e-bikes. They're faster, so you don't need enough free time to
bike everywhere, you need 20 minutes instead of 15, and it's often much easier
to find parking. It's a lot easier to physically exert yourself to get to work
when the bike reduces the amount of exertion. And a bike ride provides just as
much, if not more, respite than driving a car -- you're not frustrated stuck
in traffic and you get a nice endorphin rush.

~~~
riversflow
I guess what i mean to say is that bicycling to work _and enjoying it_ is
privileged. Alternatively, bicycling to work by choice rather than necessity
is privileged. I think the data supports that.

------
bjourne
I truly believe e-bikes will be the future of transportation. What's holding
them back is dumb legislation. In EU, they are limited to 25 km/h top speed
and 250 W motors, which is not enough for everybody. Legislators think that if
they are allowed to become more powerful then more people will die in
accidents. True, but cars kill even more people so why don't we ban them?

For fit people in good weather, 250 W is plenty enough. But not for overweight
people or people with movement disabilities. The energy required for movement
is proportional to the weight, so it makes a ton of difference if the rider
weights 100 kg or only 70 kg. To ride in rain or snow you need sturdier tires
which means that the frame and motor needs to be heavier further contributing
to the weight.

This issue is solvable but legislation is way behind. If, or when, e-bikes
running at 30 - 35 km/h with 750 W motors becomes street-legal, they would
become usable by almost anyone. You'd easily do a 15 km commute without
breaking a sweat. I know because I've owned a bike like that which I used to
ride in the winter. I sold it and bought a regular bike because I realized
that I got zero exercise from it. The e-bike was more like a moped than a
bike.

~~~
josephorjoe
So, the future of transportation is an e-bike with more power so it can have
higher top speeds, carry larger loads, and operate more safely in adverse
weather conditions.

Of course, with higher top speeds you will probably want a windshield to
protect the driver from bugs, debris, or precipitation. Hard to concentrate
when you are getting hit in the face with stuff at 45 kph.

And really once the windshield is there, you should put a roof on too to
provide better protection from the elements.

And a passenger seat or two. Maybe some storage. Maybe another wheel (or two)
for better stability.

And then you have an e-car.

~~~
bjourne
I know you are trolling, but what you are describing is an electric
velomobile. Right now, they are too niche for mass production, but they are
coming too. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CURGm-
BcaaM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CURGm-BcaaM)

