
BBC begins kids coding push with Bitesize and TV shows - LukeB_UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28984411
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planetjones
In the UK many software jobs have been outsourced and offshored. The roles of
many people onshore have been reduced to "project manager", "analyst" or
"consultant".

Of course this isn't true of everyone, but it is of many "mass employers". I
just see a disconnect between the reality of the "mass market" software
development in the UK and the "mass market" appeal of education programmes
like these.

Is that fair ?

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johneth
I'd argue against your point that many software jobs have been
outsources/offshored - at least not any more than other major western
economies. The UK has a relatively large software industry - game development,
european headquarters of various large technology multinationals, a thriving
tech scene in Silicon Roundabout / Cambridge / starting in the north of
England, and a fairly large hobbyist arena. If anything, this push will bring
the jobs that have been offshored back to the UK as the talent pool grows.

~~~
gaius
The dirty little secret of Tech City, which is what we are calling silicon
roundabout this week, is there is very very little tech there. Lots of
"creatives", lots of "social media brand strategy", a few hairdressers and
bakers with Twitter accounts. But no actual tech is developed there.

~~~
Vulkum
Is Tech City the geeky version of Sin City?

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svenkat
Don't get me wrong--learning to code is a great intellectual exercise.

But the cynic in me questions whether a lot of the push to integrate coding
into school/society is about diluting the software programmer field.

It's no secret that programmers command extremely high salaries, relative to
their level of education. By increasing the number of people who can code, the
value of the (average) programmer goes down.

~~~
tfgg
Being a programmer in the modern age is like being a wizard, and it's no
surprise that other wizards are concerned that people might learn their magic.

I'd love it if everyone could program, it'd make my life a lot easier and I
could do something else interesting.

Also if your job is easy enough to be done by a schoolchild after minimal
training, I'm not sure you deserve it.

~~~
mherkender
I agree. It's bound to fail for one thing -- nobody's gonna get blackballed in
the programming industry for being too open about programming fundamentals.

Worse yet, controlling information to secure your position is a special kind
of evil. Do you respect lawyers who make the world more litigative and
themselves more valuable? Do you respect doctors/police officers/etc that
protect others in their profession at the expense of the people they hurt?
That's the world one builds when they hide that kind of information, one where
professions aren't equally accountable.

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gaius
[http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm](http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_computer_science.htm)

14% unemployment among CS grads in the UK (double that of law). Yet you name
it, the government wants more women, minorities, children, you name it to go
into the field.

Something doesn't add up here.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
We're talking coding here, not computer science. Computer scientists make the
developments that then get engineered in to the tools we use to code with, the
platforms we use to code on, etc..

People using computers more in a greater range of disciplines at a deeper
level doesn't seem like it would necessarily impact on CS at all - there might
be more standardisation reducing the demand for new tools. There might be more
focussed advances where one or two CS workers get their work adopted in to
current tech. Both these things would lead to less employment of CS grads (in
CS) wouldn't they?

It might also be that specialists without domain knowledge are not as
desirable as those with domain knowledge who can go on to train in CS (or to
add IT skills, which I just noticed are wrapped up with the stats you quote
for CS).

To add an extra prong to the enquiry, does
[http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm](http://www.prospects.ac.uk/options_mathematics.htm)
showing only 55% of those studying mathematics having a job mean that we
should not teach mathematics to the general school population?

~~~
gaius
Unemployed 9% on the page you link to.

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malkia
A lot of UK based video game developers have moved to US, Europe, Asia, Japan
in the last 10 or more years. Lots of studio got closed down, some of them
with long history and very respectable.

~~~
bnastic
Gamedev in the UK today is but a shadow of its former self.

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SixSigma
Not the BBC, programming became part of the National Curriculum as from today

[http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787](http://bbc.co.uk/news/education-28987787)

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lightblade
I don't think kids should learn to code at such early age, not without proper
ethics training. Programming gives you a lot of power. The power to do both
good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement.

If you teach your kids to learn to code and they end up hacking the bank and
got caught, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an
adult or juvenile?

~~~
Shish2k
I don't think kids should learn to use cutlery at such early age, not without
proper ethics training. Cutlery gives you a lot of power. The power to do both
good and evil. Children just don't have that kind of judgement.

If you teach a kid to eat with a knife and fork and they end up stabbing
someone, who is going to take responsibility? Does the kid get tried as an
adult or juvenile?

~~~
lightblade
Oh, but we have proper ethics training for using cutlery. It's called table
manner.

> Table manners are the rules of etiquette used while eating, which may also
> include the appropriate use of utensils.

> \-
> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners)

Now the stabbing part, there are many court cases of these. I can't cite
specifics, but I'm sure you can find them.

~~~
Shish2k
"We teach them basic manners; some of them ignore it and get into trouble, but
overall it's still a net benefit to society to teach the tool to all children"
is exactly the point I am making :-)

