
I measured hundreds of Levi's jeans and compared how every pair fits - cmogni1
https://www.tryfitfirst.com/home/every-levis-fit-number-compared
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cehrlich
Interesting article and a large amount of research into something that is
often way more opaque than it should be.

However I’d also like to point out that with large companies like Levi’s there
are often fit discrepancies as large as an inch between ‘identical’ items of
the same style, size, color, etc. This is why I would advise most people to
buy clothes in a retail shop if at all possible.

This comes down to two things.

1\. Making clothes at such large scale and at a low cost means there are many
corners cut in terms of precision, in both cutting and sewing. See this short
video [1] to get an idea of how this process works.

2\. Levi’s and other large companies don’t own their production. Instead they
contract (and then subcontract) to large numbers of both ‘conventional’
factories and piece-work workshops often as small as just some machines in
someone’s living room. These companies make such large orders that no single
factory could ever cover them, so batches of ‘identical’ products are sourced
from a large number of producers, even multiple countries at times. Of course
there are SLAs about the spec that must be met for each garment but the
reality is that it diverges enormously.

[1] [https://youtu.be/BNN3oY9oGPU](https://youtu.be/BNN3oY9oGPU)

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cmogni1
Thanks for checking out the article and writing a thoughtful follow-up
comment. I knew Levi's didn't own their own production, but I wasn't aware
that they outsourced to tiny manufacturing operations (ie piece-work
workshops) as well as conventional factories.

On the subject of manufacturing/fit discrepancies, it might be interesting for
me to write a follow-up piece on my measuring process and what I learned about
garment manufacturing from measuring. Here's a little preview of my process
and of what I learned about Levi's specifically.

The measurements that I used to write the article are my best estimate for the
intended jean specs, rather than an average across measurements taken from
multiple jeans in the same size or from a sample of one jean per line. What I
did was measure jeans in multiple sizes and colorways from each line. The goal
was to get an idea for what Levi's grading rules are (how each pant
measurement, like the thighs, changed from size-to-size), as well as how often
there were deviations from the grading rules (due to manufacturing tolerance)
and if there are any noticeable variations in measurements by colorway or
manufacturing location.

Compared to most other brands, Levi's rarely had egregious manufacturing
problems. That is, every measurement I took was within a 1" margin of error
from the measurement specs I tried to reverse engineer. Moreover, out of the
eight measurements I took per pant, I found that on average only one of those
measurements was off-spec and even then on average it was never off by more
than 1". On the other hand, brands like Goodfellow & Co from Target were way
worse (I basically had to give up on some of the pant lines).

The most surprising thing I found is that Levi's does not seem to
intentionally change their measurements color-by-color (so dark blue jeans
have the same intended measurements as light ones). This might be an even
bigger issue for perceived garment fit than having a 1" manufacturing
tolerance. Dyes affect how people perceive fit because the dying process
affects the feel of the garment, so on average darker clothes feel lighter
than lighter clothes made from the same materials with the same measurements.

After doing all this measuring, my big takeaway about the challenges with
clothing fit is that it's fundamentally a communication problem, not precision
problem. Take manufacturing tolerance, for example. An inch off in some places
can be a real problem, like for the waistband of jeans, but for the most part
it's not too much of an issue. For example, the difference between every
measurement on the leg of the Levi's Skinny and Slim jeans is 1.75". An inch
difference in one part of the leg won't completely transform the fit. The real
problem with how apparel is sold is that all these details, like manufacturing
tolerance, are opaque and swept under the rug. If consumers better information
about things like fit, they could at least more confidently make a purchase
(or choose not to make one).

Anyway, that's my rant! I'll probably write a follow-up that more coherently
pieces some of those points together :-)

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j88439h84
Wow, I'm impressed at the work you put into this!

I wonder if you'd be willing to open source your measurements. As a stats nerd
I'd love to build some models with that data, just for fun.

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def8cefe
I wish I could try some of these but as far as I can tell Levis only makes
501s in my size (32x36). Tall and lanky problems.

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cmogni1
Just a heads up: I'll be adding the 501's to the post soon.

I didn't even think about adding something on available sizes (which fit
numbers come in short/long lengths or smaller/bigger waists). I should add
that!

In the meantime, I checked to see which Levi's I've measured do come in length
36 for a size 32, and there are a handful of them: * Levi's 505 Regular Fit *
Levi's 514 Straight Fit * Levi's 527 Boot Cut Fit * Levi's 541 Athletic Fit
Unfortunately there isn't too much variety, given that the 501's are also a
regular seat/straight leg, but the 505/514's should fit a bit different and
come in 32x36, so they might be worth a try!

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def8cefe
Wow, thanks man. Really appreciate that.

