
Kel: An Open-Source, Kubernetes-Based PaaS Built in Python and Go - djvdorp
http://www.kelproject.com/
======
teraflop
I want to like this, but I can't figure out what it actually does. The intro
just says it provides "an API" without saying what functionality it provides,
and there seems to be zero usage documentation.

Maybe someone who's looked at the code could explain what this is for and what
value it adds to the existing Kubernetes API?

(Protip: if you have six projects with six identical README files, the README
probably isn't adding any value.)

~~~
vhost-
How can you want to like something if you don't know what it does?

~~~
teraflop
There are conveniences that a proper PaaS could provide on top of Kubernetes,
e.g. Heroku's deploy-on-Git-push feature. I just don't know if that's the kind
of thing this project is targeted at.

~~~
andrestc
Tsuru.io is an open source PaaS that provides heroku like deployments and
other features!

~~~
magnotorres
Lots of services, easy to try (just one command:
[https://github.com/tsuru/tsuru-bootstrap](https://github.com/tsuru/tsuru-
bootstrap)), support docker clusters(pools), auto scale, metrics, in
production using docker since the beginning (about 2 years).

------
ageofwant
I wish these kind of shops would get an outsider to write their landing page
spiel. It is incredibly hard for insiders to get that right, sea they swim in,
woods for the trees kind of thing. Try to remember that the world you live in
is yours only, and if if you try to entice someone standing at the gate to get
in you really need to up the spruik.

Reading the page tells me little about whats actually going on inside, apart
from the fact that its "Awesome, great, etc." and a bunch of irrelevant
implementation details. And I'm not picking on Kel or Gondor here, its par for
the course.

Techs take note: You need to up your ken on spruiking your shit. We are all
special little snowflakes. Aquire customer empathy.

------
jnardiello
I literally have no idea what this does. It doesn't make any sense. Even
guessing, adding hidden complexity on top of k8s doesn't seem a good idea.

~~~
markbnj
The docs are a little sparse but reading between the lines it's a set of tools
for configuring k8s clusters at a higher level of abstraction than gcloud and
kubectl. If you've built out automation to deploy k8s services then you know
that there is still quite a bit of manual configuration needed to define the
clusters, repl controllers, services, ingress, persistent disks, etc. If you
wanted to build a PAAS on top of k8s then you'd begin pretty much as these
guys have, I think.

~~~
jnardiello
I'm very heavily working with k8s and while what you say is definitely true,
I'm not too bothered by what I have to configure (aka stuff I can control
directly). What I really dislike is stuff on which I have no direct control
and that's the main problem with k8s. Lot of stuff "just works", with little-
to-no documentation on what are the pieces concurring to make it work nor how
it is configured.

The 'it just works' approach might be great with simple scenarios, but it's
horrible for complex use cases where you need to have detailed control over
the pieces that will run in production and - once they are properly setup -,
you would anyway automate accordingly your specific usecase.

Hence my: "Additional hidden complexity doesn't seem to be a good thing in
this case".

Beside that, I really have no idea about what they specifically mean with
"Kubernetes-based PaaS". What is it? Abstracting kubernetes cluster setup? If
this is the case, i remark that I need more fine-grained access on the
internals rather than additional abstractions that internally do "god-knows-
what".

------
nodesocket
Serious question, why would you use Kel/Kubernetes over DC/OS
[https://dcos.io](https://dcos.io)? DC/OS is feature mature, the web interface
looks rich and beautiful, and it has a track record of scaling.

~~~
nzoschke
For Kubernetes vs Mesos vs Swarm vs other container schedulers you should pick
the one that has the maturity, reliability and operational overhead that your
team is comfortable taking on.

An important dimension is the data store. These all depend on a HA consensus
based database: Etcd, Consul, Zookeeper. Set up, automation, monitoring and
scaling is different with each.

Aside from this schedulers are undifferentiated technology. Tell it what you
want to run and trust it'll fulfil your request.

User Interface is generally going to be a matter of taste. A beautiful web app
doesn't matter if your team wants a CLI tool or a fully automated CD flow.

I don't have first hand experience by my research shows that Mesos is the most
mature but is pretty heavy to set up and manage. And that DC/OS is a very
polished interface.

------
ipedrazas
It seems to be a project for building and deploying kubernetes clusters.

Looking at the code, only GCE is supported.

As the others have mentioned, documentation is not great.

~~~
dengnan
Are you saying that Kubernetes only supports GCE? AFAIK, Kubernetes could run
on many (any?) cloud or even bare metal machines.

Disclaimer: I used to work on Kubernetes and its related projects.

~~~
TheDong
He is obviously saying this project only supports GCE. K8s supports other
environments, yes, but this project could use K8s in a way specific to GCE
(e.g. managing machines with gcloud ssh related apis)

------
avtar
_" Kel helps DevOps professionals manage their application infrastructure
through a layer of tools and components that make Kubernetes accessible and
easier to use."_

I'm not sure if the OP is a project member but it would be helpful to see more
details in the docs covering how exactly the project aims to or already makes
Kuberenetes easier to use.

------
dominotw
Is this mesos/dcos alternative? Hard to tell what this project is actually
doing.

~~~
takeda
From what I can tell it looks more like continuous delivery on top of
kubernetes.

Mesos on the other hand is a data center management. You actually can run
Kubernetes on top of it as you can run chronos (distributed cron), marathon
(containers such as docker) etc.

~~~
benley
Do you know of any sites actually running kerbernetes-on-mesos? I've been
using that as a talking point for a while too, but have yet to hear of it
actually being used anywhere. Not trolling here, I just don't know.

~~~
takeda
I know about it, because my company is currently evaluating it. Running it on
Mesos, gives us ability to also use other Mesos applications such as Chronos.

~~~
benley
cool - I'm interested in hearing how it works out for you. We're running mesos
(not DCOS, but still mesos) with a couple of other frameworks, but I haven't
had any time to try running kubernetes on it.

------
elcct
So it is not clear what it is doing and judging by use of crusty django, I
will pass on that one...

~~~
erpellan
Because only an idiot would choose an actively maintained battle-tested
technology whose lifespan is measured in years not weeks... wait, what?

~~~
elcct
You sound like someone who would have used a pen to make company business
cards.

~~~
markbnj
Yeah that would be dumb. He should use card-o-matic.js 0.0.12. It's going to
change everything.

------
ysh7
Looks similar to Deis, at least from the title

~~~
acd
Two projects doing the similar things should mean the idea is good :).

------
ageofwant
Considering I spend $5 a month on my digitalocean droplet that runs docker
1.11 and a bunch of containers (nothing consequential though), and Gondor
wants $100 for their entry-level "dev" tier...

~~~
minimaxir
Presumably if you're looking into Kubernetes, your workload demands require
more than 512MB of memory and single-core processing.

~~~
ageofwant
Of course. But you may also correctly presume that I'll question why this
would cost US$100/m for a "dev" offering. Considering what I can get for that
from the other incumbents.

~~~
minimaxir
You're referring to the pricing on Gondor
([https://gondor.io/](https://gondor.io/)) which is not the same as Kel linked
in the OP.

It appears that Gondor is a _managed_ PaaS, which can justify the additional
cost for businesses with capital. It is likely not intended for hobbyists.

~~~
Others
Kel is a sort of replacement for Gondor, as far as I can tell:
[https://gondor.io/blog/2016/04/21/goodbye-gondor-hello-
kel-e...](https://gondor.io/blog/2016/04/21/goodbye-gondor-hello-kel-eldarion-
cloud/)

~~~
djvdorp
Some more background info here regarding Kel and it's relation to Gondor by
Brian Rosner, the main dev of both Gondor and Kel as far as I can tell:
[https://brosner.com/blog/2016/05/05/kel/](https://brosner.com/blog/2016/05/05/kel/)

