
Interviews with makers of high-end mechanical keyboards - hellweaver666
https://endgame.fyi
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hinkley
I really wanted to be a keyboard snob but it just didn’t stick.

Mushy keys give me tendinitis on the backs of my hands.

The cherry browns on my one keyboard were okay, but not worth twice an old
school Microsoft natural. And people talk about the clacking bothering others
but what about the clacking bothering _me_?

My dirty secret is that the most comfortable keyboard I’ve ever used is the
Apple wired USB keyboard they discontinued. Especially for face-rolling
computer games. Hours and hours with no fatigue.

I wish I’d started collecting them the moment they were discontinued. I only
own three and have a habit of killing them with beverages every couple of
years. I’m one accident from having a home keyboard and a work one and no
backups.

I don’t know why everyone wants keyboard with a long throw, like we are using
typewriters. (Oddly though I’m the opposite for mice: give me a keyboard light
as a feather and a mouse built like a neutron star)

~~~
brundolf
> I don’t know why everyone wants keyboard with a long throw, like we are
> using typewriters.

I think it's just a sensation thing. It feels and sounds satisfying to press a
mechanism and hear a thunk with each keystroke. I don't think there's any
practical purpose.

~~~
vladvasiliu
Can't speak for others, but for me it's not a question of satisfaction and I
absolutely hate loud keyboards (even if it's mine). The attraction for
mechanical keys, for me, comes from the fact that I can type without having to
press hard on the keys and without bottoming out. For me, the Cherry Brown and
similar ("tactile bump, no click") are the best. They're tolerable noise-wise
and have enough feedback.

Whenever I switch to my mac (2013 model) or work pc laptop (hp probook) I tend
to miss a lot of keys because I don't press hard enough.

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jd20
A clarification: these are interviews with people who assemble custom
keyboards, I was expecting chats with the people who actually design and
produce custom keyboards (like yuktsi, Rama, Wilba, ZealPC, etc...)

Still, very cool to see what people are building. I've just recently fallen
down into the rabbit hole of custom keyboards, after my Apple Keyboard stopped
working. As someone who spends almost half my life at a keyboard, I'm
surprised it took this long for me to look into improving the tool I interact
with most every day.

~~~
jetpacktuxedo
> A clarification: these are interviews with people who assemble custom
> keyboards, I was expecting chats with the people who actually design and
> produce custom keyboards (like yuktsi, Rama, Wilba, ZealPC, etc...)

At least one of them is with a board designer, the V4N4G0N one with Evan
(formerly of TheVan Keyboards)

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smabie
I would love to use a custom built keyboard, but my RSI makes it so I can only
type on a Kinesis Advantage for extended periods of time. I'm surprised more
people don't use them, the traditional keyboard layout makes very little
sense. It's crazy how much inertia many sub-optimal things have.

~~~
jd20
I'd really love to see more data on whether ergonomic keyboards actually work.
From what I've read, it sounds like the results are mixed: I kind of want to
try a split keyboard like the ergodox or Kinesis, but I feel I tend to cross-
over a fair amount when typing, and I wonder if a split keyboard would be less
efficient.

I also overthink a lot about the position of frequently used keys like
Cmd/Ctrl/Alt (on a Mac for instance), and what the optimal placement would be,
and I feel like there's very little data about this topic.

~~~
dodobirdlord
I find the motion of rotating the hands outward past the neutral position,
such as to strike the enter key on a standard keyboard, to be extremely
unnatural and the source of major RSI. I switched over to an ergodox ez out of
necessity, and found that moving all frequently used keys to the thumb pads or
to layers near the home row was extremely helpful. I think is because it
eliminated those frequent outward flexes and ensured that the wrists remain
almost always in a neutral position. I think the health benefits of keeping
the wrists neutrally positioned while typing is uncontroversial.

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ashtonkem
A few years ago I owned a WASD with cherry greens. Great switches, but
otherwise a very standard keyboard. It died in an unfortunate encounter with a
cup of coffee. As a replacement I got an Ergodox EZ to reduce hand strain. At
the urging of my wife, who desperately wanted the clicks to stop, I got mine
with brown equivalents to stop clicking. Browns are fine, but I really prefer
greens or blues.

Fast forward a year and my wife got a new job with a generous WFH stipend, and
she too wants a nice ergonomic keyboard with macros so she can do things
faster. And wouldn’t you freaking know it, she got her Kineses Freestyle with
Cherry freaking blues.

(I can actually change the switches in my Ergodox, I just haven’t gotten
around to spending $50 on extra switches).

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onion2k
One of the good things about remote working is not having to share an office
with people who smash out features on mechanical keyboards as if they believe
more decibels translate to better code.

~~~
rutthenut
But now, with so many conf calls, you get to hear the loud keyboards which are
positioned just in front of the mic :-o

~~~
onion2k
There's a really good gfx developer who live streams shader development who I
stopped watching because of the keyboard noise. It's just _so_ annoying.

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FpUser
My all time favorite is Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 from Microsoft. I can
not tolerate small keyboards with many keys missing.

~~~
brudgers
I am a fan too. But eventually the absence of an integrated pointing device
was a deal breaker. If I have to use a mouse, the ergonomics of the keyboard
are only part of the equation because I can’t use a mouse in my lap.

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kbwhy
What’s the point of having many of the same keyboards which are practically
identical? The layout is the same.

I totally understand ergonomic keyboards (I have Quefrency and Sinc for home
and office), but clones of the same 60% Etc. layout with just different case
maybe? Key caps are replaceable and if you get a kit with the switches you
like, you have more or less seen it all.

~~~
lovehashbrowns
Different appearance, different materials, different weights, different build
quality, different keyboard features, and so on. For example, some of the
keyboards have hot-swappable key switches. Some people just like to experiment
with switches. And also the quality of a keyboard affects how the keys will
sound. LED lighting or no LED lighting. There are also different types of
layouts within 60%. Non-standard backspace keys, right shift keys, etc. As an
example, one of the keyboards here features a Fn key to the right of the right
Shift key.

Lastly, these are a form of self-expression mixed with personal comfort
tastes.

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justicezyx
None of these are ergonomic. I think that's missing the whole point of custom
design, i.e., it misses the greatest opportunity to customize the
functionality of a keyboard.

~~~
keyboardaspie
The same kinds of people who custom keyboards are the ones doing UI design for
open source software

~~~
spectramax
Lol not sure why but this is accurate. It’s like aesthetics got disease and a
tumor or two.

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spectramax
Apple standard chiclet keyboard is what I use. Problem with MK is how much
travel a key has - it tires your fingers out v

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janwillemb
None of these keyboards have a numeric keypad; these are for fancy design and
not for heavy use.

~~~
nso95
Many developers get along just fine with no numpad. We're not accountants.

~~~
spectramax
Dev myself. Can’t live without a numpad.

~~~
foepys
Also dev here. I miss the numpad maybe once a quarter but better ergonomics
and posture make it worth it. Without a numpad I can keep the letter part of
the keyboard right in front of me instead of slightly shifted to the left.

My keyboard is also programmable so CapsLock+WASD are my arrow keys and once
you have that down, you will never want to go back.

~~~
dodobirdlord
Likewise, ortholinear programmable keyboard. Holding down one of the left hand
home-row keys turns a numpad-sized chunk of keys under the right hand into a
numpad.

