

TwentySomething: How my generation works - Raphael_Amiard
http://rebekahmonson.com/2010/09/02/twentysomething-gen-y-work/

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jgrahamc
Generalize much?

Get over yourself. Seriously, the entire concept of a generation is false.
Generations are a sliding window.

I don't think the things she's talking about are specific to her 'generation'.
Environmental consciousness? The US EPA started operation in 1970. I was
actively pushing in the UK for things like recycling in the 1980s. Corporate
responsibility? How about student boycotts of companies involved in South
Africa under apartheid? And the list goes on.

So you think your generation is special. My father's generation grew up with
the challenge of rebuilding Europe after the Second World War and seeing
Britain's world influence decline, his father's generation fought a war
against their own neighbors, his father's generation did the same thing.

Oh, so you've got all this caring about others consciousness and are sad
because corporate America can guarantee you a gold watch at 55? My heart
bleeds for you.

"But, there’s one really great thing about coming of age in America in an era
when things are generally thought to be pretty bad: It forces an early
decision about what’s important in life"

Wow, you think you're the first generation to ask themselves what's important
in life at a 'young' age. Excuse my while I go John McEnroe (you'll have to
Google him youngster): "You cannot be serious"

~~~
wheaties
Yes, the author did generalize. However, all the criticisms that I read about
their generation are exactly that, generalizations. And the articles from both
sides are always self-serving.

The unemployment rate for under 25s is stageringly high compared to the
general population. The cost of education has gone up 300% while inflation has
gone up a mere 30% since 1990, most paid with borrowed monies. The whole
economy tanked due to our debt fueled ways while they had no voice, choice, or
ability to influence the outcome.

If they want to be all "whiny," let them. My prospects were great coming out
of college in the 1990's. The future was paved with gold. I wouldn't say much
is paved with anything these days, let alone the road in front the driveway.
The worlds an unjust place and they're finding it out. We told them it wasn't.

------
yummyfajitas
Wow, some twenty something's have no idea what life was like in past
generations. Or in the present generation overseas.

You unthinkingly jumped through all the meaningless hoops put in front of you
and still can't find a job you like? You (and by "you", I mean "someone else
the same age as you") joined the military and had a much lower chance of being
injured or killed than the person of your parent's generation who was forced
to join the military whether they wanted to or not? Your job got outsourced to
some other twenty something, who doesn't have to live in poverty anymore?

(I know, a guy named Gupta or Tolentino doesn't deserve a job as much as a
precious flower like yourself.)

Attention, "Mass Communication" students of my generation: STFU. The only
people had it better than you are people who are a few years older/younger
than you who got lucky and timed the recession better.

~~~
jvdh
_You joined the military and had a much lower chance of being injured or
killed than the person of your parent's generation who was forced to join the
military whether they wanted to or not?_

I have no idea what you're talking about here. 25-35 years ago there were
virtually no wars, there was a near zero chance of getting killed in the
military. Whereas now, there are very reasonable chances for soldiers to get
shipped to fight "terror" and get injured.

~~~
robk
Vietnam ring a bell?

~~~
jvdh
Vietnam war ended 35 years ago.

~~~
billswift
And a twenty-something's father who was in his 30s when they were born (not at
all uncommon) was draft-age back then.

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illumin8
The angst expressed in this article is real. These are not just the emo
writings of a depressed kid. This is the backlash of the children of the baby
boomers against their parents, who grew up during the 60s, espoused free love,
peace, and other hippy pop culture platitudes, and yet, became the worst
generation, squandering all of the greatest generation's (grandparents) hard
won treasure and resources, outsourcing their kids futures to Asia so they
could have cheaper electronics. Squandering their national treasure and good
standing in the world, that the grandparents fought so hard to win in WW2, so
they could fight pointless wars and get enough cheap energy to drive
unsustainable land yachts to their unsustainable McMansions in the burbclaves.

There are a lot of reasons that the current generation has to be angry with
their parents. They've destroyed the economy, the jobs market, and are well on
their way to destroying the planet. They'll retire in the next decade
supported by a ponzi scheme (social security) on the backs of their children.
The world is less safe, less secure, and more violent because of them.

I can't help but look at Japan in the 90s and think that we are in for a
repeat of that. An aging workforce, being constantly downsized and outsourced.
No new jobs for college graduates, so they must live with their parents until
their 30s or 40s. Property deflation over decades because their parents
refused to acknowledge the losses on their overpriced houses. The parallels
between Japan in the 90s and US in the 2010s are eerily similar. Study their
culture to see what is next.

I don't know what the answer is, but I can tell you that if the younger
generations don't get involved in politics, the world will be destroyed by the
older generations before we get a chance to truly participate.

~~~
flatline
"This is the backlash of the children of the baby boomers against their
parents, who grew up during the 60s, espoused free love, peace, and other
hippy pop culture platitudes, and yet, became the worst generation"

And built the internet. And kept social security afloat for years after it was
supposed to become bankrupt (most of those people now using it also paid into
it, remember). And did a thousand other things. What makes you think this
generation will be any more responsible? Greed and ignorance are basic human
conditions and are in no short supply in any generation.

~~~
illumin8
Besides building the Internet, which arguably grew from funding started in the
50s under DARPA (making it more an achievement of their parents, the greatest
generation, who funded it), what other legacy or accomplishments have the
boomer generation made?

~~~
eugenejen
IIRC the funding of Internet research in DARPA is in 60s.

Thanks to boomers in USA. They enable all my fellow people in East Asia lives
a better live than my grandparents due to free trade.

Thanks to boomers in USA, now Rock, Punk, Alternatives, Hiphop music styles
influence the music styles around the world. I hope you have patience to sit
through traditional Japanese style music performance.

Thanks to boomers in USA, now we can have all cool movies from 70s and 80s to
watch. All the exploitation movies in 70s are awesome.

Thanks to boomers in USA, now a homosexual/bisexual person can live life with
less stigma, I think that's pretty fair to 10% of the population.

Thanks to boomers in USA, they dream about cheap personal computer that we can
type rubbish into. Now we can generate so many bits that we never thought that
we can capture them before.

------
watty
I'm a twenty something and this article embarrasses me. I'm a hard working
financially independent person who busted my ass and am getting by just fine.
Despite what your mommy and daddy told you, life's tough. I know more people
like myself then I do sharing this authors whiny attitude.

~~~
aphyr
_I know more people like myself then I do sharing this authors whiny
attitude._

Of course you do--just like almost everyone I meet here in SF is a well-paid
designer, manager/CEO, or engineer.

------
flatline
This sounds like something anyone could have written when I was 20 without
batting an eye. The illusion of a gold watch, retirement, a guaranteed job
after college, were all known to be suspect or a complete myth by at least the
1980s. Raised to be aware of the plights of others? I remember "We are the
world" and "adopting" impoverished African children with a monthly food
stipend. Seriously, there's probably a lot of interesting stuff that could be
said about current 20-somethings in general, none of them were presented here.

~~~
dragoon
I agree. The rot in our society started with the Reagan Era. 2008 didn't make
it suddenly appear; it just brought it back to the surface. The OP has a just
grievance, but she's comparing the world she faces to the _Mad Men_ era of
social mobility, when her parents were (probably) children.

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euroclydon
If this generation doesn't value or have any faith in the traditional
employee/employer relationship, then are new YC companies (founded by people
this age) finding ways to create a new employee relationship structure which
represents this feeling?

~~~
c1sc0
I think that is already happening to a large extent. More and more people are
founding their own little companies to fund side-projects and do consulting
work. The workplace of the future may simply be a collection of loosely
coupled people writing each other invoices.

~~~
euroclydon
Yep, but that's not what I'm asking. Listen to any Mixergy podcast, and what
does every company do? Hire people. I want to know what companies founded by
gen-Y folks are doing to acknowledge the new thinking about the
employer/employee relationship.

~~~
steverb
Contracting.

It's like a job, but with fewer false promises and expectations.

------
masterponomo
Working as I do on a very old mainframe/financial system, my youngest co-
workers are in their 30's. For some reason, all of the under-50 mainframers I
encounter are Hispanic or Indian or Asian while all us older guys (yes, 95%
guys) are Caucasian. Could it be the tech schools that churn out mainframers
only attract the poor, motivated guys who want the quickest path to a job
(that was my own route, BTW). The younger immigrant guys are absolute
workhorses and they don't bring their politics and environmental consciousness
to work. They are worthy heirs to the code edifice we have built. The old guys
don't mess around and worry too much either--we're too busy hacking COBOL and
assembler and coveting muscle cars and other toys that we can finally afford.
Oh, and we who started in IT in the 1970's and 1980's didn't start out with
any guarantees, lifetime jobs, or easy rows to hoe. TwentySomething, keep
plugging away on your own behalf and don't identify too strongly with the
self-pitying ones in your generation.

------
whyme
_"It forces an early decision about what’s important in life. No matter how it
appears while looking down from 25 years up the corporate ladder, we are
decidedly chasing our own ideals, even when things seem hopeless."_

Here's my generalization:

From everything I see Generation-Y has been protected from having to make any
such decisions. It's been the only generation where it's been OK to live at
home with your parents until 30. So how are you making any tough decisions
doing that?

When we graduated in the 90's droves of workers were being let go during the
recession, only back then we were expected to deal with it an survive without.
And we didn't live at home.

When we looked for work, we'd spend everyday going door to door with resumes,
or phoning every business in our phone books, but generation-Y signs-up to a
bunch of job feeds and rarely do they bother spending an entire day trying.

It maybe that I am in the wrong circles, but every generation-Y I've met, can
stay home and video-game in the event things go wrong.

That said, I learned a valuable lesson about 10 years back, and that is no
matter how much one likes to think they're not self-centered they are - it's
human nature. No matter the generation. And the statements made through-out
this article, my own posting, and others, have re-enforced this for me.

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steveklabnik
There's a lot of macho posturing and 'get off my lawn; in my day, uphill both
ways...' comments in this thread, but I'm actually in agreement with this
article, I'm 24. It does come across a little whiny, but the point is there:
my cohort (I like this word better, see jgrahamc's comment) takes a lot of
abuse from people who say that we're lazy, entitled, and don't want to
actually work.

What I see is the disparity between my grandparents' generation and my own,
that the author alludes to: people used to actually work for companies for 30+
years. Their loyalty was actually repaid. My grandfather worked at a steel
mill his entire adult life, never changed jobs, and was paid reasonably and
offered a decent pension. Now, we know that model doesn't work anymore, but
when employers treat employees as 'resources'... you can't be confused by some
push back. This is the entire reason I'm an entrepreneur; I know for a fact
that large corporations try to create the same feelings of loyalty in me that
my grandfather had, because it's useful to them. But on the other side of the
deal, I'll just be tossed aside when it looks like we might not hit quarterly
projections.

Fuck that. I'm not going to be loyal to someone who doesn't also respect me;
that's an abusive relationship.

I don't have any illusions that my generation will change the world; every
generation has thought that, and they all end up selling out. But I do feel
that we're defining success differently, our priorities have changed from our
parents', and things will be slightly different, even if they're not better.

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MortenK
The author really ought to replace "we" with "I".

------
confuzatron
It's like reading a horoscope in the first person plural - i.e. flattering
generalities that make the target feel good/virtuous/whatever.

------
dragoon
This could have just as easily been written by a Gen Xer or a Late Boomer. The
problem is that people who are 25 now are comparing their economic fortune not
to those of people born 10 years earlier, but to those of people born 30 to 50
years earlier, who entered the working world in the _Mad Men_ era.

If you were late Silent or early Boomer (b. 1930 to 1950) you faced an
extraordinarily easy career game. Even in advertising, the era's analogue of
banking, people left work at 6:00. Unlike those who are young now, you didn't
have to bust your ass through college and internships. People dropping acid at
Woodstock in '69 could walk into executive-track corporate jobs in '70 and be
VPs by '72. They had it really fucking easy. Today you can't get a decent
entry-level job with a 3.4 GPA and no internship.

The sunny era, however, didn't end in 2008 or 2001, but much earlier. If you
were leaving college in the mid-1970s stagflation era, you'd missed it. There
were small, blippy, "booms" localized to a few industries (banking, then
oil/gas, then dot-coms, then oil/gas, then real estate, then banking) in the
next three decades, but the general prosperity never came back.

------
reburg
hey but we have iPad and not to mention the cool new iPod Nano [the touch one]
, and plus iPhone 4G with FaceTime. Plus we are a better generation we don't
buy cheap P.C. rather we have hypnosis inducing Apple Mac Book Pro's.

~~~
c1sc0
hey, but we have refrigeration and television (50s) ... hey, but we have VCRs
and Walkmans (80s) ... hey, what was your point again?

