
Three-day no-meeting schedule for engineers - luord
https://medium.com/@Pinterest_Engineering/three-day-no-meeting-schedule-for-engineers-fca9f857a567
======
trcollinson
I got to work for a few years with pivotal labs in the Bay Area. They had a
policy called “just don’t have f&$@ing meetings.” At first I thought this was
a bit crazy. How could we work without meetings? Then I realized that product
owners, actual 10 minute stand ups, and a 30 minute weekly planning meeting
was all we really needed to make amazing products. I’ve keep that philosophy
ever since and it has worked very well in big and small organizations.

~~~
dasmoth
Pivotal is clearly a style that works well for some people. But couldn’t you
categorise the constant pairing as a form of ongoin meeting? It doesn’t seem
like the place to go if you want to be left alone...

~~~
trcollinson
I absolutely agree with you that it is not the sort of place you want to go if
you'd like to be left alone. No doubt there. However, I would say that
constantly pairing really is nothing like an ongoing meeting either. A really
good paired programming environment, if you like that sort of thing and work
well in that sort of environment, is very effective for writing and deploying
fantastic products and features. I find meetings are very not effective for
writing and deploying fantastic products and features.

I'd really rather not say there is a "Pivotal" style as much as an Extreme
Programming paradigm. Extreme Programming says that an environment is better
when you work normal hours. It states that an environment is better when there
are fewer meetings. It states that an environment is better when you try
paired programming, test driven development, continuous processes, simple
design, good communication, etc etc etc. I think all of these things are very
good. I also believe a few of these principles don't work well for specific
individuals. There are principles that effect the business (fewer meetings,
sustainable pace, continuous practices). So far I have always seen those
principles as good. There are also principles that effect the individuals
(paired programming, test driven development, close proximity for
communication). I have seen those not work well for some individuals and
should be adjusted to your individual employees.

------
lukethomas
It sounds like the meetings are compressed into the other two days of the
week, which also sounds quite miserable.

I'd love to see an app that analyzes the internal meetings that happen inside
a company and flags the repeat offenders. I've always found that a small
percentage of people hold the most meetings. It also can be a bit awkward to
reject their meeting invites constantly.

Leaders should remind people about the time-cost of meetings (here's a
calculator to help: [https://hbr.org/2016/01/estimate-the-cost-of-a-meeting-
with-...](https://hbr.org/2016/01/estimate-the-cost-of-a-meeting-with-this-
calculator)). There are meetings that can be beneficial for alignment, but
then there are the reoccurring ones where people just want to know what you're
working on.

Anyways, I'm working on a tool to help cut down on the "what's going on"
meetings: [https://www.fridayfeedback.com](https://www.fridayfeedback.com)

~~~
ryandrake
Hi, I’m a project manager. I’m the guy who is likely scheduling most of those
meetings. Nice to meet you!

I think, by and large, we understand the cost of meetings, and don’t casually
organize them without going through the alternatives. It’s not rocket science.
My thought process is generally:

0\. Before anything, come up with a written agenda and goals for the
communication. Don’t move past this step until done.

1\. Does this communication even need to happen? Maybe there is an internal
document already I can point people to.

2\. If not, Can this be done async over E-mail?

3\. If not, can it be done over chat?

4\. If not, can it be done in a series of 1:1s between me and each attendee?

5\. If not, then a meeting has to happen. What’s the true minimal list of
required attendees? Who is optional? I am loathe to waste the time of a
productive individual contributor if I don’t have to. If I can invite his/her
manager instead, I will. Sorry, that’s the Faustian bargain you make when
becoming a manager!

6\. What’s the shortest possible productive duration?

7\. Is there a time slot that is miraculously free for everyone, respecting
time zones and working hours for people?

8\. If not, is there a time slot that works for most people?

If, again by some great miracle, there are multiple time slots that work, I
favor ones that are adjacent to other meetings in their calendars, so as to
not break up a productive no-meeting block.

~~~
pwg
Good job there with your checklist. Unfortunately, for every one of you who
does the above checklist before pulling the "schedule meeting" trigger, there
are 500 other project managers who's first reaction to everything is:
"schedule a meeting".

~~~
noir_lord
Then there is the "I can get what I need in a 2hr meeting at the cost of 16hrs
of other peoples time" ones.

I hate those ones.

If your programmers are taking laptops to meetings to write code while you are
holding the meeting, you should consider a career in yak-farming not project
management.

Also we need to schedule a meeting to find out why we are behind on our
deliverables because of last weeks meeting taking most of the day putting
everyone behind.

That one made me giggle.

Or as one of my friends at that place had as a wallpaper "The beatings will
continue until morale improves".

~~~
ryandrake
There are lots of terrible meeting formats. There’s the “everyone talk about
what they are not doing because they’re meeting to talk about it” aka Daily
Standup. There’s the Bug Beatings, where 50 people gather to go through 200
open bugs, each one where 1 (different) person talks and the remaining 49 work
on their laptops. There’s my least favorite: I call it “Executive Storytime”
where multiple people put together a status update for a big-shot, and instead
of big-shot reading it himself, we project it and read it to him. This is ok
when the format is meant to be interactive but if it’s just a readout—yukk.
Then there’s the Agendaless Sync, where the same people get together weekly
because they always get together weekly and just talk about whatever. Ugggghh.

~~~
noir_lord
These days I'm the only programmer at a none-tech company and it's glorious, I
answer directly to the MD.

I set my own schedules, timelines, I prioritise bugs and maintenance and I
handle buying anything we need as well having complete freedom in the
technologies I choose to solve problems (currently moving to TypeScript for
front end stuff for example) - his attitude is to hire good people across the
business and then get out the way as much as possible.

The boss sets overall goals and we agree together on what is achievable in a
given time period.

Honestly my job has made me remember what it was I loved about programming
(solving real world problems that have a measurable impact).

Even the fact I inherited the worst codebase I've ever seen doesn't get me
down because my boss knows how bad it is (it's why he got rid of the
outsourced company and hired a programmer in house) and I get to work on a
bunch of cool problems (production scheduling in a varied environment, global
logistics (we import from China and India), some C# stuff (production
control), Android (inventory control, scanners)).

I actually get to 5pm and _want_ to keep working but the boss bollocks me if I
stay late (even though he does most days).

I'd have to be offered a spectacular pay rise to even consider working for a
'tech' company again.

------
jarsin
Meeting # 1: How many images can we fit on the page?

Meeting # 2: No seriously, how many more images can we fit on the page?

Same meeting every week at pininterest

~~~
bthdonohue
Hahaha, meetings on my team at Pinterest are a little more substantial than
that, but maybe it varies team to team?

------
hoorayimhelping
Maybe I'm off base here, but to me, meetings are not nearly as big a
disruption to my IC work as random interruptions from teammates. Meetings are
usually planned and able to be worked around and scheduled for. There is
typically an agenda, and if there isn't, it's very simple to ask for one. If
it's not valuable, don't go, or leave. If you must go, you can often get the
meeting rescheduled - people in engineering organizations are surprisingly
accommodating of the maker's schedule.

A random interruption by an engineer when you're trying to focus is much more
disruptive because it's unplanned and often pulls you right out of the zone.
Often times, especially for more senior engineers, an enormous amount of
patience has to be practiced as you listen to someone ramble on as the context
in your head flutters away, while they go in circles explaining the problem to
themselves.

This is all part of the job though. People don't have all the answers and the
questions are often poorly defined. My skills wouldn't be nearly as valuable
if the problems were so cut and dry that I could just program a solution
straight through without interrupting anyone for clarity. I don't quite get
the hang wringing over being interrupted. It happens, and it happens
especially more as you get more senior. Some of the best solutions to problems
I've come up with have not been technical, but have come about by talking to
people and realizing that maybe the technical solution we were pursuing wasn't
the best one, and we could save a lot of time and money by solving the problem
a different way.

~~~
city41
I usually find adhoc interruptions are due to someone being blocked and
spending 5 minutes with them can really turn their next few hours around. It's
good for the team as a whole. Meetings on the other hand are minimum 30
minutes and usually involve half a dozen people. The bang for buck on
interruptions is way higher than meetings.

At my current job I have about 10-15 meetings every week, and I'm an IC. It
drives me crazy. I feel like I have to fight tooth and nail to get time to
work on the project I'm assigned to.

~~~
tzs
> I usually find adhoc interruptions are due to someone being blocked and
> spending 5 minutes with them can really turn their next few hours around.

I've found polling to be a good way to handle this while avoiding the problems
of being interrupted yet still being reasonably responsive to coworkers
needing help.

I take a short break every 20-30 minutes to avoid health problems from sitting
too long [1]. Those breaks are a perfect time to check email and chat for
requests for help.

My notifications are set so that when I get an email or chat I get a banner
for a few seconds in a corner. If one comes in while I'm in the zone, I can
assess it without losing flow because I know I've got a break coming up soon,
and so I only have to decide if the incoming message is so important it can't
wait for the break.

[1]
[http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/cuesitstand.html](http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/cuesitstand.html)

~~~
collinmanderson
> My notifications are set so that when I get an email or chat I get a banner
> for a few seconds in a corner. If one comes in while I'm in the zone, I can
> assess it without losing flow because I know I've got a break coming up
> soon, and so I only have to decide if the incoming message is so important
> it can't wait for the break.

I get those notifications on my phone, so I just keep my phone face up next to
my computer, so I can easily glance at the notifications, but I'm less tempted
to respond.

------
sigfubar
There’s only one day per week when I get absolutely nothing done: the day I
have to leave home and spend half an hour commuting to work. The sense of
dislocation caused by this journey is palpable. I lose context and my thoughts
become scattered. I feel overwhelmed and can’t help but watch my worries come
to the fore.

By contrast, working from the comfort of my home is pure bliss. I have my
standing desk and large monitor. I have natural sunlight filtering in through
the window. I see some trees and hear the sounds of my quiet residential
street. The rhythmic cadence of my mechanical keyboard soothes me and quietes
my nerves. I’m focused and ready to take on a challenge of any size or
complexity.

Meetings while WFH are not a major distraction. The other participants are
cleanly separated from my world. I have a high-quality headset and microphone,
which takes away the stress of being misunderstood. I can easily show my
screen, or say nothing at all while tuning out a meeting that isn’t helping me
get my job done.

I for one am waiting with bated breath for the world to catch up with the idea
that some types of work are best done from home. Offices are the true black
holes into which human productivity disappears.

~~~
ryandrake
As nice as WFH is, I’m cautious about advocating it. We should be careful what
we wish for. I’d be worried about management logic deciding that if my job can
truly be done from home, it can be done from India.

~~~
mstade
And honestly, why shouldn't it? I work with an organization that has people
all over the world – including India – and aside from time zone awkwardness it
works pretty well. Advocating against remote work as a means to achieve job
security seems incredibly backwards to me.

------
skadamat
I highly highly recommend everyone read Deep Work by Cal Newport -
[http://calnewport.com/books/deep-work/](http://calnewport.com/books/deep-
work/)

The key concept Cal talks about that's relevant for this discussion is
"attention residue". When you switch from low-stimuli, high-value work that
requires deep focus to high-stimuli, shallower work (like meetings), it can
take up to 30 minutes to really switch back to focus mode again.

Relevant excerpt on attention residue - [https://hackernoon.com/excerpted-
from-deep-work-by-cal-newpo...](https://hackernoon.com/excerpted-from-deep-
work-by-cal-newport-9c0633d7b8c5)

------
dahart
During my career, other individual engineers interrupting me while I’m working
has had a far greater impact on my time than scheduled meetings. What I’ve
been dreaming of is an app for interrupting someone that delays requests and
batches them up. No walking up to someone at any time and saying “just a quick
question”, plan and expect to wait a few minutes.

~~~
philbarr
In a sprint review recently I brought up the issue of, "Hi Phil." This is
where someone IMs you with just "Hi Phil" and then you have to sit there and
look at the "X is typing", "X is not typing" for 5 minutes.

I don't mind people asking a question, but just put it all on one line, "Hi
Phil. This is the question..." That way I can sometimes just fire back a quick
answer and it's not as distracting.

It makes sense too - you wouldn't walk up to someone, tap them on the shoulder
and then make them wait before asking a question.

~~~
drewmate
I'm with you on this one, but I've recently decided that "Hi Phil" boils down
to some fundamental personality split rather than a misunderstanding; I don't
think either side will soon change. I believe "Hi Phil" people are really just
trying to be polite and minimize interruptions (or at least their magnitude),
waiting for permission to really bother you, so to speak.

Whether that's true or not, I respond if I'm ready, or I ignore it and go on
with my work if I'm in the middle of something, just like I would with a full
question. The only difference is I'm not thinking about the question with my
spare cycles in the mean time.

If someone is trying to inform me of something urgent with "Hi Drew" I think
it's reasonable to say that's their own fault.

~~~
bluGill
No, the real reason for the "Hi Phil" and then a pause is much worse. You
might sometime in the future have to contact Phil about some detail on the
plan to fire "Joe". By sending "Hi Phil" and a pause you give Phil enough time
to respond "I'm busy" before you give away to Joe that he is going to be out
the door in a couple days after legal finishes the paperwork. Because "Hi
Phil" and then a 5 minute pause is standard when this situation happens Joe
doesn't think anything of it and so Phil can secretly transfer that least
important bit of knowledge without giving anything away.

------
speby
The biggest problem for corporate meetings and perhaps why there are so many
of them, why they're so frequent, and why they're so long:

* Meeting initiator fails to really consider if everyone on the invite list needs to be there.

* Meeting initiator fails to consider if a meeting will have all the necessary people in attendance in order to have the meeting (and furthermore, what if a required attendee can't make it? Can you still have the meeting? If so, they probably didn't need to be there in the first place)

* Meeting initiator does not have much of an agenda or firm outcome in mind when organizing the meeting (other than some topic or 2... i.e. "Discuss new feature X")

* Meeting initiator and/or attendees don't take any notes at all and then don't distribute the notes to people who may want to be informed but simply did not need to be in attendance.

There are other issues with why there are so many meetings, too, such as the
structure of the organization and/or project being worked on, whether the
culture of the company hinges on having "buy-in" from many different
stakeholders, or a consistent "ask for permission" kind of culture. Also, a
culture where people don't interact well between groups (marketing and
engineering, product management and QA, and so on) or have poor relationships
between these groups. Meetings serve as a more formal proxy in order to get
people informed or consensus on things between disparate groups in the
organization. These are additional factors that seem to play into the need for
more meetings.

------
heckanoobs
At my workplace we have a daily DMZ (De-Meetinged Zone) from 11 to 3. Since
engineers tend to roll in btwn 10 and 11 and most product ppl work normal
hours and leave by 6, you end up with a lot of meetings btwn 3 and 6. But at
least they aren't methodically fracturing your entire day anymore.

Care is needed when scheduling. Standard parallelization stuff. If all your
sub teams want to have sub team meetings (retro, planning, blah blah), try to
parallelize those meetings so there's more time on the clock for cross team
meetings. If you don't do this, manager schedule ppl will start violating the
DMZ.

To manage Slack interruptions disable whatever your personality is distracted
by. For me I turn off all notifs that aren't direct messages to me or
@mentions. I hide chat rooms with no unread messages. And most importantly I
don't keep Slack on top 24/7 on some second monitor. When ppl need me the
client grabs my attention and I answer. The rest of the chatter can be read at
my leisure. We use emojis in our engineering channels to make it easy to scan
for action items like code reviews and we use threads for replying to ppl so
the channel is like the top level view of a message board.

This is functioning fairly well with ~30 engineers at the org but i think we
will need to more consciously manage the 3-6 window if we doubled in size
again. Fred Brooks stuff, the 3 hour window is fixed but as teams grow so does
the communication overhead.

------
ralphc
What killed me was that people wouldn't schedule back-to-back meetings because
of stragglers to the second one, cutting into it. This meant that there would
be an hour meeting, then an hour gap, then another hour meeting. Never enough
time to get back into "the zone" in the code.

~~~
Johnny555
The last company I was at set the meeting times to end 5 minutes before the
end of the hour (or half hour) to prevent this issue.

It helped but wasn't completely effective since we were split over 3 floors of
a building (floor 4, 20 and 21), so it could take over 5 minutes to get from
room to room.

------
outside2344
I would rather see a stripe through my schedule, say 1pm-3pm everyday, that
could be used for meetings.

I actually enjoy the break sometime and the sidebars on the way to and after
the meeting are sometimes great ways to get micromeetings done.

Having the rest blocked gives me a two solid blocks of three hours to do
stuff.

------
satokema
My previous company was awful about scheduling meetings. They had a strong
propensity to throw big timewasters right in the middle of the most focused
part of my day, like sprint planning and all-hands meetings.

Probably part of the reason I'm gone now, but it is incredibly annoying to be
in a groove and forcibly interrupted in the middle of it for an managerial
ego-stroking session. (Also, you're paying me a decent chunk of change to sit
there bored out of my skull).

------
hammerbrostime
Alternatively, I schedule 9-2 for every day as programming time. A company-
wide policy though would be great, and having entire days blocked on or off
for programming sounds like it would work much better than my method across
timezones. However, having a couple of hours at the end of each day is super
useful to keep collaboration with non engineers humming too.

~~~
pc86
The vast majority of individual contributor developers do not have the freedom
to simply block off two thirds of their time at work from meetings. Company
cultures differ widely - I've worked places where each of the following were
true:

\- Meeting organizers actively used the scheduling assistant to determine the
best time and room for a meeting

\- Meeting organizers picked whatever time and/or location was most convenient
for them and whoever made it made it

\- Meeting organizers picked whatever time and/or location was most convenient
then threw a fit if you declined due to another commitment

If you're a junior dev and your lead schedules a meeting for 11am you'd be
hard pressed to tell them to pound sand because that's your programming time.
Seniors have more leeway but I'm sure seniors at Facebook or Microsoft still
probably aren't declining meetings with their boss because it's programming
time.

~~~
wpietri
I would submit that a) given the hot job market, ICs have more freedom to
improve work practices than they think, and b) changes like this get much
easier if they are done collectively.

As we see in this case, it started with one team. A junior dev can't
unilaterally change the schedule, but they can certainly point out the
problem, see if others are feeling the pain of too many meetings, and propose
an experiment to improve productivity. And then if a whole teams says,
"Manager, we are eager to be more productive, so we are trying X," it's going
to be pretty hard for a manager to say, "No, productivity isn't important
here."

~~~
pc86
But it would also be easy for the manager to say "No, meetings are the tax you
pay for being part of the organization."

I am moving teams at the end of the month and I look forward to suggesting
this to my new manager, perhaps just a day or two to start and review the VCS
after a few weeks to see how much more gets done on those day(s). I just think
it would be very easy for a manager, especially a non-technical one, to
disregard this entirely.

------
TallGuyShort
My company has a designated no-meeting-day for engineers and it's been good
for the reasons in the article - I'd love to see it expand. It's also nice to
have a designated day that everyone gets errands done. Need an oil change and
they're only open during business hours? Great - everyone gets it done at the
same time when they're not trying to contact each other - no need to
coordinate.

The other thing has been as a last-resort day for meetings that really need to
happen soon, but half the people you need to get in the room are just in
meetings all the time except that one special day, so you make a special one-
time exception when you really need to. I suspect that this is just a band-aid
though - those people can't be as productive as they think they are if they
can't control their schedule more.

~~~
ryandrake
This is great if the whole company agrees on the no meeting day. If every team
has a different day, and I have to hold a cross-team meeting, then at least
one person will have to violate their no-meeting day.

I try my best to respect people’s preferences but if by some miracle I’ve
found a time slot that is actually free for the other 6 participants but
happens on your “no meeting day” I’m going to regrettably have to schedule it
then.

------
skrebbel
Please please _please_ let that mean "no meetings and no slack". Otherwise
what's the point?

~~~
sigfubar
Try this neat trick: disable push notifications for email, Slack, HipChat and
any other communications except emergency channels such as PagerDuty. This
will do wonders for your productivity. I’ve faced some blowback from people
who expected me to respond immediately in real time, but I’ve assuaged their
concerns by explaining my focus model and the need to eliminate distractions.
In my experience, my correspondents actually enjoy receiving a thoughtful
reply composed in my own time rather than a snap reaction fired off just to
get the sender off my lawn.

~~~
wgerard
Another neat trick I've picked up on from other people use is to use DND mode
on Slack when you're focusing. That way if it's actually critical to get a
hold of you in real time (but not so critical that it warrants a page) there's
an option to do that.

People are surprisingly respectful of it, and unlike just going dark it
signals to people that you're available if need be but focused on something.

~~~
character0
I just got the new touchbar MacBook — making DND a primary shortcut was an
easy way of making this completely frictionless.

------
markbnj
We do this, with Mondays and Fridays being commit/celebrate days respectively
(work still gets done on those days but the meetings that set/review the
sprint goals are held on them), and the three middle days of the week being
"focus" days. It's worked well for us so far.

------
rajacombinator
I’ve worked on some pretty complex stuff in my time and I can only think of
maybe one time where it was necessary to have a ‘meeting’ (which was more like
an impromptu ‘let’s get 3 people to whiteboard this instead of 2’). I find the
concept baffling and assume it’s for the benefit of people who don’t do
anything to feel good about themselves. (Especially the “daily stand up”
concept.) Anything complicated enough to require input from multiple parties
is usually better discussed asynchronously via email. But I also don’t find
interruptions to be particularly distracting so maybe I just don’t get it.

------
kthejoker2
If you are in control of your own calendar, don't wait for your org to do
something like this: just block off your own productive time and decline all
meetings during it.

------
chriskanan
I have about 20 hours worth of meetings per week. I've been arranging my
meetings into as few days a week as possible, and it helps a lot, but
eventually there always ends up being overflow into other days. I've also
gotten complaints that I'm not flexible. Lastly, I've found these days to be
utterly exhausting where by the end of the day I'm non-functional. It is much
better than constant interruptions, though.

------
tomohawk
We broke the time up into mornings and afternoons. Most mornings and
afternoons were "no meetings" time. If there was a meeting scheduled in a
morning or afternoon, then that became the prioritized time to schedule any
other meetings that came up. Worked great.

Most people aren't willing to skip meetings, or walk out of meetings when they
realize the meeting is unproductive. Both are productive behaviors.

------
vincentmarle
When trying to minimize meetings across my team, I have found Google Calendar
to be the enemy. Anyone in the company (or even externally) can just put an
event on your calendar, the default is 1 hour, and _expect_ people to attend
the meeting because “it’s on the calendar”. There is no way to enforce some
kind of policy (no-meeting hours/days, max time, max attendees). Any tips for
restricting GC?

~~~
sincerely
make your own events on the calendar during the time you don’t want to be in
meetings

~~~
wastedhours
Yep, schedule "work blocks" in the calendar - it's usually a good way to
combat frivolous meetings, and if something's important, then they'll probably
schedule it over anything in any case.

------
parvenu74
The idea of mental multi-tasking as a productivity killer makes me wonder if
people with ADHD would function better in a team lead role (eg: they have to
go to All The Meetings) rather than a role where locking down and focusing for
12 hours at a time is needed. I have enough ADHD that I _appreciate_ the
interruption of flow that meetings allow me... or am I just weird?

------
graeme
I may try this myself. I work on my own. But, I find stuff like appointments,
phone calls, errands, occasional tutoring, etc really slows down work. Even
the gym, which I do MWF.

So, Tuesday-Thursday might me an ideal set of days to schedule nothing. It
still leaves two days to schedule external things. I tried a one day system
before but it was too rigid.

------
rb808
We work quite closely with the team in Europe so usually all meetings are in
the morning and afternoons are always free. Its a great way to work. The
suggested having days on and days off I've learned leaves the problem that its
often impossible to code 10 hrs straight. Having blocks each day is my
preference.

------
jlg23
Besides the actual topic of the post, there is one gem that, IMHO, every
manager should realize:

> As engineering managers, it’s our job to provide the space and support
> needed to help our engineers deliver great software.

The best managers I encountered were not telling the team what to do, but
enabling them to do what needs to be done.

------
marsrover
Lately it feels like all I do are meetings. I never feel like I'm doing any
work.

------
jillesvangurp
The only meetings engineers should have are 1) regular status/planning
meetings and other agile related meetings. It's a good idea to block these in
a single time block. 2) one on ones with managers. These are short meetings
and can be planned well in advance or be very adhoc. 3) whiteboard meetings
for problem solving. Everything else tends to be a waste of time. 4) very
infrequent all hands type meetings.

Since leaving the corporate world, I've been doing startups and freelance
work. I tend to not use a calendar for meetings because they are so rare these
days. Likewise, I've all but eliminated email from my life. It's just not a
thing anymore to read and write lengthy emails. We use slack to replace both
meetings and email.

------
crazygringo
I love the sentiment, but I feel like this imposes significant costs on non-
engineers, and ultimately on the whole team.

Product managers, UX, and others need significant input from the engineering
team to make good decisions (i.e. not design un-buildable things). And the
idea that they can go for 3 business days a time without that input seems...
unrealistic and/or counterproductive.

But of course meetings should be limited as much as possible... include just
the relevant engineer(s)... and trying to cluster meetings instead of
spreading them throughout the whole day...

~~~
amiga-workbench
Meetings are usually a poor way to gather information. I really wish people
would send me a well thought out email with clear questions before they fall
back on bringing everything to a grinding halt so they can talk in person.

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icedchai
Sounds wonderful! I look forward to those days where I am not interrupted by a
useless meeting or conference call. Unfortunately, they are rare.

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coolguycomment
How do you run stand-ups with no meetings whatsoever? Is the hope that you get
asynchronous communication through slack?

~~~
majewsky
When I was in a team that did stand-ups, I convinced them to do it in Slack
vs. via phone (in-person was not possible because the team was distributed).
We set up a daily channel reminder in Slackbot that contains the traditional
standup questions.

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coolguycomment
how do you manage stand-ups with this schedule? Just try to check-in/co-
ordinate informally via Slack?

~~~
LandR
Do you find standups actually useful? Or are you doing them because agile
companies do standups?

I've never found any utility in standups at all, and the days we missed the
standups were no different to the days we have the standups.

~~~
djohnston
i used to find standups to be useless hurdles put on the track by my manager.
now i find them more useful, or less useless, because after 10 minutes have
passed i just start coding again.

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jasonmaydie
it's a bit absurd if you ask me. Have meeting when you need to. avoid useless
meetings.

~~~
wpietri
That sounds nice, but doesn't work in practice. When it only takes one person
to call a meeting, the larger your company gets, the more likely it is that
somebody will think a meeting is useful. This is made worse by the way larger
companies tend to rely more on power structures, so it's considered bad for a
low-status person to say no to a high-status person.

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whiddershins
Why just engineers.

What about the designers?

Does anyone really love meetings?

~~~
djohnston
people who can't contribute anything individually

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peterwwillis
So I have to wait three days to discuss something of substance with an
engineer? Sure, I didn't need to get anything done this week.

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javiramos
Reminded me Paul Graham's Maker's Schedule:
[http://paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html](http://paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html)

~~~
michaelcampbell
Did you read the article? That is referenced, and quoted, several times,
starting in paragraph 3.

