
Tesla's next-generation Superchargers should be much faster - electic
https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/26/tesla-supercharger-v3-teaser/
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abelsson
For reference, gas contains about 33kWh of energy per gallon, and if we assume
you pump 20 gallons in 5 minutes when you fill up your car you have an
effective energy transfer rate of about 8 MW at your gas pump. Even if we give
an electric vehicle a 3x efficiency ratio, we still need about 2.5 MW to be
equivalent to the old petroleum infrastructure.

~~~
the8472
The comparison is not quite that easy. The old petroleum infrastructure is
more centralized.

You can get electricity almost anywhere, adding a charging station to parking
places or garages is far easier and safer than hypothetically laying gasoline
pipelines everywhere. So there are more opportunities for partial charging
when the car is idle.

~~~
kirushik
> easier and safer than hypothetically laying gasoline pipelines everywhere

Ironically, that's safer exactly because electricity won't give you those MW-
scale powers.

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hwillis
Assuming he's not being sarcastic, it could be power aimed at semi trucks.
That would probably be sub-megawatt for regular charging, and 1-2 for
supercharging. It's gonna be a lot more important to have a well-developed
charging network for trucks since they are working vehicles: nobody is gonna
buy a truck and then sit around and wait for it to become profitable to drive.
Maybe we'll see some extra-large charging spaces opening up soon...

[https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/4u0yci/why_i_w...](https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/4u0yci/why_i_was_wrong_about_electric_tractor_trucks/)

~~~
stuckagain
Long haul truck fleets will be much more suited for swaps than recharges.

~~~
birdman3131
Not really. Unless you are driving team you still only get 10-11 hours of
driving a day. (iirc. I know the regulations have changed a LOT since I grew
up in a truck in the early 00's)

There is plenty of time to recharge a truck over night at a truck stop. The
issue is gonna be infrastructure at the truck stops. I am gonna guess at
150-300 spaces at most truck stops. If the majority of trucks go electric then
I am not sure the electric grid's connection to the truck stop is gonna be
able to support that.

Anybody know the math on how much electricity would be needed to take an
80,000lb truck 700 miles? (700 miles would be on the very upper end of the
scale but you want that kind of range to accommodate for climbing hills with a
full load.) And after that the math for charging say 100-200 of them? (I doubt
the truck stops will all be charging at once)

~~~
hwillis
I did a bit in the link above

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amluto
I wonder what the Tesla charging contacts are rated for. Assuming they keep
the straight-to-battery model, 350kW is around 1000A. I think Tesla chose the
best available contact for its size (I forget the brand name), but 1000A is a
_lot_ for that size contact. They may have to devise a way to actively cool
it.

I doubt that they want to start supercharging at higher voltage. A DC-DC
converter at that scale will be fairly large. I suppose they could add some
contactors internal to the battery pack to change the cell wiring to double
the voltage and halve the current for charging purposes.

~~~
neon_electro
I don't claim to be an expert, but it appears that Tesla has experimented with
liquid cooling Supercharger stations before:
[https://electrek.co/2016/07/21/tesla-ends-its-thin-liquid-
co...](https://electrek.co/2016/07/21/tesla-ends-its-thin-liquid-cooled-
supercharger-wire-experiment-in-mountain-view-but-the-tech-lives-on/)

In the above case, they used liquid cooling to make the charging cable
diameter smaller, but perhaps the technology can be used to make the regular
Supercharger cable capable of handling more power.

~~~
amluto
Cooling the cable might be easier: you can make a hollow braided copper tube,
insulate and seal around it, and run liquid through it. But you can't run
liquid through the contacts unless the car has plumbing for it, and I doubt it
does.

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vegabook
Even 4-5 minutes is still an eternity if you're in a queue behind 10 cars
during the holiday rush, and have to 'fill up' twice to get to your
destination. What would be a 20 minute wait for gas becomes an hour, for
something that doesn't even give you the same range.

~~~
the8472
How often does that happen per year?

~~~
geodel
I do not know but I do want to reach friends and family as quickly as possible
so that we can all spend time on our tablets and phones at same place.

~~~
refulgentis
A tremendous yawp of a LOL, thank you :-)

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jawbone3
Is it just bulk that makes the batteries non replaceable? Putting in charged
ones are after all the simplest way to speed up charging if the replacement is
relatively simple, and a well proven solution for other battery powered
devices.

~~~
fossuser
They had a swappable demonstration a couple years ago and the model s supports
it.

Main issue is a social issue - people like to have ownership of their own
battery pack.

~~~
jessriedel
> They had a swappable demonstration a couple years ago and the model s
> supports it.

This was basically a ploy to get government dollars. The tax rebate per
vehicle was partially determined by capabilities the car had theoretically,
even if they weren't deployed in a useful manner.

[http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0312/Tesla-
ba...](http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2015/0312/Tesla-battery-
swapping-useful-service-or-tax-credit-ploy)

[http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-
battery...](http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-battery-swap-
harris-ranch-20150310-story.html)

> Main issue is a social issue - people like to have ownership of their own
> battery pack.

What's the evidence for this? People have no trouble with propane tanks they
don't own for gas grills.

~~~
hwillis
As in Tesla didn't want to store and insure tons of batteries, especially
because their current limiting production factor is batteries. Every battery
that can be swapped is one that isn't being used in a car.

