
Chevy Volt discontinued: Chevrolet's last Volt rolls off the assembly line - curtis
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chevy-volt-discontinued-chevrolets-last-volt-rolls-off-the-assembly-line/
======
avs733
>It's a true shame, as GM finally got the little details right on both how the
engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017
model.

Completely agree. I leased a first gen and am now leasing a second gen volt.
I'm actually considering buying my current car at the end of the lease. As a
bike commuter, it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather
than full electric route.

The first gen I got rid of at the first opportunity. The car did it's job but
the shifter physical design was moronic and the fit and finish was so bad that
I actually cut myself on a piece of the interior plastic one day.

The 2nd gen is 'just a car' a nice car actually. Excepting a maintenance
screwup by a dealer I have had zero - zero - maintenance issues with the
second gen. Because I don't ever have to charge it, and don't drive it much, I
can usually charge it for free (I'm an apartment dweller). I spend about 80%
of the miles on electric. I think I've bought two tanks of gas in six months.

Funny story...a friend of mine's mother was actually the lead systems engineer
on gen one. I met her at a graduation party and we had about a 3 hr long
engineering nerd out over the 1st gen. I asked about a billion 'why did
you/why didn't you' questions and was amazed at how many good ideas were left
on the table.

~~~
chrisseaton
> the shifter physical design was moronic

The gear shifter? I thought electric cars didn't have those? I thought they
were push-pedal-and-go like a go-kart?

~~~
baobrain
I think they might mean the shifter to change from park/drive/reverse/neutral

~~~
riffic
Editors at Wikipedia call this a "Selector"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_stick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_stick)

~~~
sparky_z
Pretty sure they're the only ones.

------
nimbius
Disclosure: im an automotive engine mechanic by trade.

The Volt was a political nightmare. trade rags beat this car night and day for
being a fake. but honestly its a damn good car. it was never going to see
tesla style torque or mileage but the people driving it werent the whole foods
kind of crowd anyway.

the hybrid electric was borne out of the need to create something that couldnt
be patent-struck by toyota, whos hybrid synergy drive is basically the entire
hybrid market outside of Komatsu/Caterpillar these days. electric motor final
drives until the engine kicks in to drive the electric motors also allowed
them to avoid the honda tax on motors in the transmission that assisted the
drive inline.

the engine drive was crucified by its owners for ever starting. in-town
drivers would be well under the range of the vehicles batteries, yet routinely
traded the car in or returned it when the engine kicked on. What they didnt
understand is that this was done to prevent stale fuel or cycling problems in
cold weather. The ECU was smart enough to maintain the engine even when you
didnt need it.

If you find one of these used and youre into hybrid (mostly) electric drives,
id recommend it. it has a planted and firm drive, similar to a windstar
minivan but without the body roll.

The stereo is also surprisingly overpowered for something like this as it
borrows heavily from Fords Shaker platform (harmon kardon.)

~~~
speedplane
> The Volt was a political nightmare. trade rags beat this car night and day
> for being a fake. but honestly its a damn good car.

So you're saying widely publicized biased opinions based on antiquated but
longstanding social norms were able to prevent good engineering, measurably
better than the status quo, from coming to market? Are you saying that
marketing and media can often overcome solid facts? Welcome to humanity.

~~~
gameswithgo
When audi first introduced continuously variable transmissions they had to
make them _act_ like discrete transmissions because users complained it felt
like the tranmission was slipping.

arrggghghghg

~~~
zeckalpha
This may be true, but Audi was relatively late to the CVT game.

------
rossdavidh
Somehow, I am kind of reminded of GM's Saturn division. 1) make a concept 2)
consumers like it 3) but GM can't make it cheaply enough, or sell it at a
price that reflects it's cost 4) so they end the model and close the plant

I have the impression that what is wrong with GM is not the Volt, or the old
Saturn for that matter, but rather the people who run the company.

~~~
uvesten
Correct, at least from my anecdata. Worked for GM in 2010 on drive-by-wire and
safety tech for EV:s, but soon quit in disgust. Management had zero drive or
vision to make EV’s a reality, and would rather just pump out more gas cars.

------
cmrdporcupine
Best car I've ever owned from a reliability and fun-to-drive perspective.

A bit cramped, but it's my commuter car, so don't care.

I drive 100+km a day and charge at both ends, and most weeks use no gas. But
still have the flexibility to take very long road trips without the hassle of
stopping at DC fast charge stations every couple hundred km.

When this one dies someday, I'll probably buy another used one if I can find
one in good condition. The 2019 model is the best, with 7kw charging, power
seats, and a new head unit.

Very sad to see it go.

~~~
usaphp
> fun-to-drive perspective

What do you consider by fun to drive?

~~~
lgleason
I have a Gen 2. 0-30 in roughly 3 seconds. 0-60 in 7.5 to 8.0. Very zippy in
traffic, instant acceleration and the handling is on par with some BMW's.

------
dmix
Even the Bolt that is replacing the Volt as their go-to-EV is still losing
money per car sold (for now):

> An unnamed source cited by Bloomberg News estimates that General Motors is
> expected to take a loss of between US$8,000 and US$9,000 per Bolt sold. A GM
> spokesman first declined to comment on the expected profitability.[20] Opel
> refuted that in December 2016 and states that GM has battery cell costs of
> $130/kWh, and industry is not yet optimized for mass production.[21] A UBS
> teardown in 2017 suggested slightly smaller losses per vehicle, of $7418 on
> a base spec, or $5520 on a higher spec vehicle.[22]. They estimate that by
> 2025 the Bolt will make a profit of about $6000 per vehicle.

[https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Chevrolet_Bolt#/Profitability](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Chevrolet_Bolt#/Profitability)

~~~
jaytaylor
I wonder what will change between now and 2025 to enable profitability on
Bolts?

~~~
jdietrich
See page 42 of the source report. UBS and Munro predict a 33% reduction in
battery costs due to broader industry pricing trends, with a further reduction
of 10-25% on powertrain components due to economies of scale and technology
improvements.

The report argues that the Bolt is already profitable on a contribution basis
(sale price - cost of goods sold), meaning that GM make money on every Bolt
they sell. What makes the Bolt unprofitable is the high per-unit share of R&D
costs and depreciation due to low volumes - the Bolt isn't selling in
sufficient quantities to recoup the cost of developing it and putting it into
production. The Bolt can become profitable even if manufacturing costs stay
the same, simply by selling more units.

Demand for the Bolt is substantially outstripping supply in Europe, because
high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicles;
It's likely that GM can achieve profitability simply by ramping up production,
assuming that their battery suppliers can keep up with demand.

[https://neo.ubs.com/shared/d1mFW2YvNRvHXA/](https://neo.ubs.com/shared/d1mFW2YvNRvHXA/)

~~~
logifail
> high fuel costs mean that pure EVs already have a lower TCO than ICE vehicle

Got a source for this claim?

I bought a new ICE vehicle six months ago, in round figures it cost me $13,800
(that's the on the road price of the base model, including a couple of minor
extras and all applicable taxes).

The electric version of _that exact same vehicle_ has a list price of $31,300.
No, that isn't a typo. The salesman seemed faintly embarrassed when we
enquired about the EV version.

The depreciation curve for ICE vehicles is fairly well understood. So is
maintenance and the reliability of key components (we've had a previous ICE
from this manufacturer that ran for over 9 years without any out of the
ordinary components failing).

Before we purchased, a salesmen noted that EV technology is changing so
rapidly that even if you do feel like handing over $30k for an EV, in 5 years
time it may not be worth very much. Whether its batteries will take you very
far is also less than clear.

I wish all of these things weren't so, I'd happily own an EV, but not at
current prices.

~~~
jdietrich
Page 44 of the linked report. There's a full analysis at the link below. There
are a huge number of variables (purchase cost, annual mileage, predicted
depreciation, fuel and electricity pricing trends etc), but EVs match or
exceed the TCO of comparable new ICE cars in a substantial number of scenarios
in Europe.

The key factor is fuel costs in Europe - even with oil at around $60 a barrel
at the moment, you'll pay $6 to $8 a gallon because of high fuel taxes. Off-
peak electricity costs as little as 8¢/kWh on some tariffs, with most EVs
doing three to four miles per kWh. Incentives like purchase grants, subsidised
charging equipment and reduced registration fees further tip the balance in
favour of EVs. Lower maintenance costs are a factor, as is the possibility of
lower-than-predicted depreciation due to higher-than-predicted durability of
EV battery packs.

We're still some years away from TCO parity in the US, because motor fuel is
still incredibly cheap and electricity is often relatively expensive.

[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626191...](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030626191731526X?via%3Dihub)

~~~
logifail
> the linked report...

Am I reading page 43 right? The _cost_ of the battery in the Volt is currently
$12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the _selling price_ of my new ICE
vehicle!

Q: What's the projected lifespan of the battery pack in a Volt?

~~~
jdietrich
_> Am I reading page 43 right? The cost of the battery in the Volt is
currently $12,300? That's almost exactly 90% of the selling price of my new
ICE vehicle!_

Yup, and it's why falling battery costs are such a big deal for the EV
industry. It's worth thinking about the battery as a pre-payment for fuel;
it's very expensive up front, but it substantially reduces your cost per mile
for the life of the car.

 _Q: What 's the projected lifespan of the battery pack in a Volt?_

The Bolt's battery pack has an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty, with a maximum
capacity loss of 40% during that period. Data from Nissan Leaf owners suggests
a capacity loss of about 20% over five years, while Tesla Model S owners have
reported much lower capacity loss - sometimes as little as 10% after 150,000
miles. Pack longevity has been increasing due to better cell chemistry and
improved thermal management, but only time will tell how well the Bolt's
batteries age.

Nissan offer a refurbishment program for the Leaf, which will restore the pack
to its original rated capacity for $2,850; I would expect most manufacturers
to follow suit. Battery pack refurbishment is also available from a number of
third-party providers. Given the excellent durability of the rest of the
powertrain due to the very small number of moving parts, EVs may prove to be
surprisingly durable - with a battery refurbishment after 10 years, an EV may
give 20 years of good service. The Nissan Leaf has fairly high depreciation
due to the poor initial range of earlier models, but Teslas seem to be holding
their value fairly well.

~~~
logifail
> The Bolt's battery pack has an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty, with a maximum
> capacity loss of 40% during that period.

If one were to attempt to market an ICE vehicle that lost "up to 40% engine
performance" over 8 years/100k miles, one would struggle.

> EVs may prove to be surprisingly durable

There are many cheap, modern ICE vehicles that are _already_ surprisingly
durable - I have the service receipts for the 9 year old VW Polo (bought new,
and which we traded in in 2015) as a data point.

Again, I wish EVs were already competitive, but aren't they still stuck as a
lifestyle choice for those with "spare money"?

------
bit_logic
This was really shortsighted. PHEV is currently the best technology. I think
the push for full EV is premature for mass market. It works for niche cases
like Tesla, but not something that can be truly mainstream.

With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology. It
has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or dense
the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 miles is about what you can
charge with a level 1 charger overnight. Within those 50 miles EV is amazing,
quiet, clean, it's clearly superior technology. And 50 miles is enough for a
lot of vehicle trips such as getting groceries, going to school, commute to
work, etc.

But imagine you have a 50 mile EV, how to extend the range to something
everyone is used to, like 200-300 miles for road trips? There's two options,
more batteries or an ICE engine. The problem with more batteries is charge
time. It's not good enough right now. Even Tesla is 120kw, which is 30 minutes
for 80%. And all other EV are far behind this and the charging network outside
Superchargers is pathetic. Range anxiety was only part of the problem, slow
charge time will be the bigger issue.

It will never be as fast as filling a gas car because that gets into the
megawatt range. However, CCS spec can go up to 350kw. This would be good
enough, 80% in 10 minutes. Still not fast as a gas car (which is about 5
minutes to fill a tank), but 10 minutes is ok. Combine that with a 300 mile
battery, and it can be a road trip car.

There's basically no CCS chargers at 350kw and no cars that support that rate.
EVs will get there eventually and replace everything (ICE, PHEV, etc.), but
it's too early now. Also, there's a limit to worldwide production capacity for
batteries. The amount of batteries in one Tesla could support 10 PHEV cars.
PHEV is a bridge technology, but it's too early to abandon it. Now is the time
when every car model should be changing to PHEV.

~~~
jdietrich
_> With current battery tech and infrastructure, EV is a 50 mile technology.
It has nothing to do with battery tech itself, doesn't matter how light or
dense the battery is. The limit is infrastructure. 50 miles is about what you
can charge with a level 1 charger overnight._

The vast majority of first-time EV buyers also install a 240v charging
station, which typically costs about $1200 including labour and will fully
charge most cars overnight. Frankly, you'd be mad to spend $40,000 on a new EV
but hamstring it by cheaping out on charging.

 _> The problem with more batteries is charge time. It's not good enough right
now._

It's already good enough for most users, assuming you have reasonable access
to suitable rapid chargers on your route. Very few people drive continuously
for three or four hours, stop to refuel and immediately return to their car -
human biological functions are a meaningful factor. You might be surprised at
how long it actually takes you to refuel, pay for your fuel, visit the
restroom, buy a coffee and stretch your legs, especially if you've got kids in
tow. Rapid-charging an EV does take longer than refuelling a car, but you can
do other stuff while it's charging.

Most ICE car owners only infrequently take long journeys. Most EV owners who
do take longer journeys find that charging times only add a few minutes to the
duration of their journey and are not a significant inconvenience. Charge
times do remain a major obstacle for people who drive substantial distances
for professional reasons, but they represent a small minority of car buyers.

~~~
zelos
> Most ICE car owners only infrequently take long journeys.

Sure, but when I _do_ take a longer journey, I don't want to have to hire a
car or something. I can see an EV currently being good for 90% of my journeys,
but what about the ~8 journeys a year in the ~200 mile range, with the last 30
or so generally on steep/winding roads trying to find a cottage in the middle
of nowhere? How practical is that currently?

Edit: making the numbers a bit more realistic

~~~
speedplane
> How practical is that currently?

It's not, but it could be. There are no fundamental technical barriers to
overcome, just social ones.

~~~
Reason077
I don't see any significant social barriers - it's just a matter of
infrastructure. Drivers need to be able to depend on the availability of
reliable chargers.

~~~
speedplane
Public infrastructure is a social issue. It's one thing for a private company
to set up a network of gas stations, it's another for an entire country to
agree on gasoline standards and regulation so every car can use them. Electric
cars will need similar standards, Tesla won't be able to do it on its own.

------
bsder
It's a true shame, as GM _finally_ got the little details right on both how
the engine was put together as well as the interior fit and finish on the 2017
model.

However, it was probably inevitable once batteries got good enough. Removing
the combustion engine and replacing it with more batteries probably saves far
too much money.

The current problem I have with electric vehicles is simply that right now
they are "5 year" vehicles instead of "20 year" vehicles. Things are changing
so quickly right now, that there is zero probability that any electric car I
buy today I will have in 20 years. Contrast that to vehicles bought in the
late 1990's/early 2000's that are still in decent shape (barring things like
winters in the Northeast US) and still running.

And the whole "customers prefer SUV's" thing just drives me bonkers. Customers
don't inherently prefer SUV's--the automakers market the hell out of SUV's
because they are so profitable. And then everybody has a bunch of vehicles
that they won't drive when gas goes up again.

~~~
CydeWeys
Realistically speaking, how important is it that a car last 20 years? If it
only lasts 10 years, which current EVs seem on track for, so what? You're not
actually out that much on an annualized basis. And don't forget that years 11
through 20 on an ICE car are quite a bit more expensive maintenance-wise.

Depending on how much you drive, two electric cars over 20 years might well be
cheaper than one gasoline car lasting that long.

~~~
bsder
> Depending on how much you drive, two electric cars over 20 years might well
> be cheaper than one gasoline car lasting that long.

This might be true if it weren't for the fact that the price of a new car
keeps going up as a percentage of median income rather than down.

I had two cars bought new from the late 1990's (one finally got totaled). The
annual maintenance cost could be _quite_ high (I calculated that about $4K per
year would be the breakpoint) on those and it would still come in lower than
the equivalent class of car (another used car doesn't reduce the maintenance
much _and_ you have a lump payment). I would have the discussion with my wife
to get rid of one of them every year, and every year we would come to the same
conclusion--replace them when they _die_ and not before.

Now, some of this is dependent upon whether your car is your sole source of
transportation and whether you can cope with your car breaking down (money,
time, etc.). It was no big deal for me to lose a car and put it in the shop--
someone else will have a different reliability calculation.

~~~
CydeWeys
Don't forget that car safety has improved significantly over the past 20
years. Crash avoidance and survival has gone way up over that timeframe. Once
you price in the value of your and your loved ones' lives the old junker car
starts looking a lot less appealing.

I got rid of an old junker car after I almost got into what could've been a
really bad highway accident (at speed) caused by someone not seeing me and
trying to take the lane I was in. My car almost lost control when I swerved
into the break-down lane to avoid him. A modern car with electronic stability
control, or frankly even just no mechanical/structural problems, would have
fared much better. No one is spending thousands of dollars replacing the
entire suspension system in a junker car, but that's just the start of what
you'd need to do to try to make an old car safer.

------
chaostheory
I've had both the 1st gen and 2nd gen Volt. It is truly a great car that's
versatile. You can use it on both a commute and road trip with no issues.

This is a classic short sighted GM move. I hope that at the very least they
somehow sell the Volt to another major manufacturer. I'm not transitioning to
the Bolt.

------
peter303
I call out BS one dollar a charge. At 12 cents a kwh in OK its almost $2 to
charge 16 kwh of batteries. And I live in a state adjacent to OK withe the
same nominal kwh charge. However when you include all the #$&*: fees (like
cellphones) the true cost is 18 cents a kwh. At this rate $2 gasoline in in a
compact car is the same cost per mile for electric per mile (6 cents).

I suspect he is averaging the free charging at work which cuts the true cost
in half.

------
chiefalchemist
"Yet the Volt did serve a purpose. It led to advances in lithium-ion batteries
similar to those that power smart phones and computers. But such advances
ultimately led to the Volt's demise as GM and other manufacturers developed
fully electric vehicles that can go 200 more miles per charge."

A better headline would be:

The Volt Dies but the Bolt Lives On.

------
js2
Just chiming in as another happy gen2 Volt owner sad to see the car go.

------
fraggle222
Should have been new Brand.

I feel like the Chevy logo and branding didn't help much with Volt sales. They
could have done something similar to what Toyota did with Scion. Create a
unique logo and branding.

Create a high tech brand that isn't associated with "Chevy". Is that just me?

~~~
propogandist
New branding comes with a lot of overhead.

If you're spinning a new brand out of a known brand, you'll have to educate
customers with large marketing investments. This will have to be massive for
the car industry.

Given the car's not very profitable already, they'd be running a huge loss for
a long time.

------
gok
PHEVs were such a misconceived idea. So many more parts to wear out for such
little benefit.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
Completely disagree. I have a Volt, and having a gas engine is not a "little
benefit" to me. It's a huge benefit, despite the fact that one tank of gas
lasts me about 6 months on average. I never have to worry about running out of
electric charge and trying to find a charger, and I can go on long trips
without having to worry about whether or not I have the range.

~~~
gok
So why bother with an electric at all?

~~~
byw
Regenerative braking, significantly simpler drivetrain, pure electric for the
cities.

Only problem I have is they use normal car engines as range extenders.
Could've gone with a simpler/cheaper wankel or microturbine optimized for high
RPM, but I guess it's quicker to slap on an engine you already have.

~~~
Laforet
Recently there is some buzz that Mazda might bring back their rotary engine in
a hybrid, which actually might be a good way to go about the power/weight
problem.

~~~
newnewpdro
There is absolutely zero reason to mass produce a Wankel ever again.

------
technobabble
Something I don't understand, but why don't they take the Chevy Bolt chassis
and turn it into a PHEV Crossover a la Kia Niro? They already have the
platform developed, and crossovers seem to be all the rage.

~~~
Baeocystin
I'm almost certain they will. The tech they used isn't going anywhere. It's
simply that no one buys sedans. I expect to see a Volt-powertrain-derived
crossover or SUV soon.

~~~
walrus01
No one buys small sedans for the American market, sure, but cars the size of a
Yaris or Corolla seem to be wildly popular in the rest of the world.

~~~
Baeocystin
If I'm reading this properly (and fair warning, there's a _lot_ of data, I
could easily be mistaken) it looks like sedans are dropping in popularity
across the globe- but that 'mini-SUVs', crossovers, or whatever you call a
small sedan-sized hatchback nowadays are gaining popularity.

[http://carsalesbase.com/global-car-
sales-2017/](http://carsalesbase.com/global-car-sales-2017/)

Aside from the sedan question per-se, it's interesting to me see tastes change
so rapidly.

------
ProfessorLayton
That’s too bad, the Volt’s powertrain made a lot of sense for those aren’t
able to get an EV due to it being impractical (Many apartments).

What’s interesting is that Honda’s hybrids have basically the same drivetrain
as the now discontinued Volt. They too discontinued (edit: some) of their
plugin hybrids, which is also too bad.

Looks like the Prius plugin is gonna be the car to pick for a plug-in hybrid.
I wish it looked much better, but judging by their success, Toyota seems to
know what it’s doing with the Prius’ styling.

~~~
mrpippy
The Honda Clarity is their current plug-in hybrid (unfortunately not available
in the Accord any more)

~~~
lgleason
and sadly not as good looking as the Volt.

------
Causality1
A shame. The Volt's been my dream car since I saw the concept vehicle in
Popular Science when I was in high school but I was never able to afford one.
The cheap daily commute of an electric car combined with the instant fill-up
and range of a gas vehicle. Not to mention since the battery pack is much
smaller than an all-electric it would be much cheaper to replace once it
eventually wears out. Seems I'll never get one, now.

------
felipemnoa
>>Sales averaged less than 20,000 per year, not enough to sustain the costly
undertaking.

That to me sounds like a decent number. I guess they were selling them at a
loss.

~~~
bodine30
The one part of this that I feel like I understand is that if you buy this
vehicle you've effectively signed up for twice the maintenance expense. While
I feel this was a brilliant step in the direction of stop gap between gas and
electric vehicles; I could never bring myself to pull the trigger.

~~~
organsnyder
Why? Yes, there are more components than either a pure ICE or pure EV, but
that doesn't translate to "twice the maintenance expense".

In my experience (we own a Pacifica PHEV), a PHEV means less expense than a
100% ICE vehicle, but more than a pure EV.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Is it twice the expense? Probably not. Plug in hybrids are simply the worst of
both worlds. You still need an engine and everything that goes with it, and
your all electric range is anemic.

Why would I buy a Volt when I could buy a Model 3, a Leaf, or another EV?
Electricity is cheap, no need for fuel or oil changes, and the driving
experience is better (at least in Teslas with quick 0-60 times). You also are
still eligible for the federal tax credit at its full amount for EVs where the
manufacturer hasn’t sold 200k EVs yet.

The Volt died for the same reason the SR71 did: it was no longer needed.

Disclaimer: Tesla owner

~~~
brightball
Because most other EVs other than Tesla lack range, while you can still take a
Volt on a long trip without having to plan around finding a special charging
station.

It’s the single best solution on the market to cutting fuel usage by about
90%, being fun to drive and not having all the headaches that go with range
anxiety / locating available charging stations.

The real question is why you’d by an all electric when the Volt was an option?
They’re totally impractical for anything other than a 2nd car.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Because you’d buy a Prius (a wildly successful vehicle) instead of a PHEV (and
still realize a drastic reduction in gasoline usage over the life of the
vehicle, while still realizing a high level of reliability). There is a reason
the Prius was often put into service as a taxi.

I’ve driven my Tesla from the west coast to the east coast with minimal hassle
(using only Superchargers), and with newer EVs having longer range and fast
charging stations being deployed rapidly (Electrify America), I argue that the
idea that an all electric vehicle is impractical except as a second vehicle is
an antiquated notion.

~~~
BoorishBears
The Volt has an excellent track record for reliability, easily better than
that of the Model 3, and earlier Model S (haven’t kept up with if they ever
sorted out the issues from back when I wanted to buy one)

It also has better fit and finish despite costing less.

The Volt was an all around better car than the Model S I test drove and that’s
why I have one (and two other cars in a similar price bracket so that is clear
it wasn’t a price issue).

This is a little off-topic but your comment resurfaced my sentiment on the
matter... I firmly believe Tesla is making cars that survive on halo effect
more than substance and am extremely excited to see what other manufacturers
come up with in the future.

Also, to understand the benefits of the gas engine look at it like this.

Presuming you’re not one of the owners using/abusing supercharging to replace
a home charger, the Volt ICE is like a supercharger.

You only use it on long trips or to top off when you’re a little low and want
to get rid of “range anxiety”

------
cmrdporcupine
While GM is killing it here, they're pushing the Voltec drivetrain in China:

[https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a19843069/velite-nik-
buick...](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a19843069/velite-nik-buick-
unveils-velite-6-phev-and-ev-in-china/)

------
anovikov
Why are people so against it? I mean, plug-in hybrids are a dead end, they
made sense only when batteries were super expensive. With almost all producers
being under $200/kwh and some under $130/kwh, with $100/kwh just around the
corner, what's the point of a plug-in hybrid?

~~~
erik_seaberg
Hybrids (or battery swaps) make sense until apartments and employers have
power outlets for every parking space.

~~~
anovikov
Not really. For daily driving cycle, you will have enough of battery for
charging just once per day, overnight, if you can't do it then plug-in hybrid
is of no value to you compared to an ICE car (or a traditional non-plugin
hybrid), simply because you don't plug in. For long journeys, you need fast
chargers anyway, and you mostly have it on highways.

~~~
erik_seaberg
Non-plugin hybrids had all the drawbacks of gas engine drivetrains, but I view
a plug-in hybrid as an electric car with a backup plan. Pure electric car
owners are betting they'll never need that, but some of them are wrong.

That said, I've had a reasonably cheap and reliable used Elantra for a while,
and I'm holding off on these until the market settles.

------
zed88
Being a leaf driver, this would have been a good deal for me only if they
could make it about 20% cheaper. Sad to see it go.

------
JohnJamesRambo
I’m not surprised, they were hideously ugly. Is there a reason most electrics
are God-awful, looks wise? I’d say it has to do with shape considerations
brought about by the batteries, motor, or aerodynamics, but Teslas look great
and better than other cars.

------
throwaway29374
almost certainly current US policies are making it more difficult for EV to
compete. Kind of subtle point. Make sure we don't have to deal with dipshits
in the future. Vote!

------
tpolm
People are no longer buying EVs when there are no more $7500 tax breaks (they
are expiring this year)? Who could have possibly predicted that :)

------
cmrdporcupine
I would conjecture that while GM is _saying_ publicly that they're going full-
bore on pure EV they've done a 180 since the end of their federal tax credits
and the election of Trump and in fact are doing their best to just focus on
what makes them money at home, Equinoxs and Silverados, and make all that
weird eco-stuff for markets abroad ... in China.

Closing factories in the US and Canada and laying people off is a part of
that. Shutting down the Volt is also part of that, as it's a through-and-
through domestically produced machine out of Michigan.

Trump style politics and climate denying in the 'conservative' movement is
setting North America back. In 20 years when the dust settles the locus of
production of the next generation of vehicles will be in Asia, and we'll be
behind.

I love my Volt, it's the best car I've owned. I used to be a big advocate of
the GM EV program. The engineering is top notch. But the engineers at GM seem
to have been undermined by their management. It's very sad.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Further to my point above, it's worth pointing out that AFAIK the Buick PHEV
Velite, the Chinese version of the Volt, isn't scheduled for cancellation.

It will be built and sold in China.

------
Scottn1
I fit the concept of the Volt perfectly; Married, Mid 40's male, one kid
(6yo), under 50 miles 5 of 7 days a week, wife drives SUV so we have that when
needed. Spring of 2017 I was ready for new car and I so wanted to get a Volt
as I've been eyeing it for a few years (especially the new revamped model)
thinking I would be ahead of all our friends in going EV and saw myself at
parties telling people how I haven't been to gas station in months, etc. I
lurked Volt Forums, read all car review sites and was ready.

Then the actual shopping started and reality set... I visited all Chevy
dealers in a 30 mile radius of my house, about 4 of them. It quickly became
very apparent how this car was just a thorn in GM's side and I got the feeling
they did not want to sell this car if they could help it.

First dealer I went to for a specific one they had I wanted. When I got there
I was told it was at their spillover lot and they couldn't get it that late
(7p). But they had one exactly like it just different color right outside I
could test drive. The salesman finding the keys for it were a "challenge" and
I waited 20 minutes for him to locate them. In the meantime while waiting he
asked me if I would be interested in any other of their models, some they have
"below wholesale" deals for that would be better than the Volt to own. After
telling him no, we got the keys and went to the car outside. I get in to start
it, drive it around and notice that we are on the combustion engine the WHOLE
time. He didn't know what I was talking about as I explained what the dash was
showing - that the main battery was dead and needed an over night charge. He
comes back to look for a battery charger and I again tell him he doesn't
understand as it isn't a starter type battery typically in cars that needed a
charge. I frustratingly left.

Second dealer would not go more than $1k lower from sticker on the one I
wanted. Wouldn't budge. I showed him how far off he was to Truecar pricing,
explained that these things aren't selling well and here I am for a deal I can
feel good about. He then tried to suggest I would be better off in the used
Volt market for the price I was trying to get, which wasn't out of realm to
what others were getting deals at on Forums. I left.

Other two dealers didn't even have that many Volts on hand but said they could
order. Again we got to prices and I'd order one if right for me and they both
told me same as above that this city this car is a premium and there are no
discounts given, best they could do blah blah. Especially if they have to
order one. I was able to test drive one fully charged at one of these dealers
though.

The test drive was with my son this time. Him with me realized just how
compact this car was, and he wasn't getting smaller. My previous car was a
2007 Mazda3 and it felt roomier inside. With my seat all the way back for my
desired driving position, we would not be able to fit a second kid back there.
I'd have to scoot pretty far up for him to sit behind me. The quality of the
interior actually impressed me and the tech is very cool, but this car even
felt smaller than the new Cruze model they had in same showroom.

The size of this car is what ultimately made it fail IMO as well as them just
not wanting to sell/push for it compared to even the Cruze or Malibu. It seems
like they were more interested in selling the Equinox, Malibu and pickup
trucks as those dominated the lots. Buyers as a whole have started to want
more room and larger vehicles as evident in the sales numbers past few years
in USA, and compact cars were a dead man walking. This is what this car was. A
Subcompact car with a 33k sticker price that a majority would take one look at
and wonder who hell buys this when the Cruze is 20k. It takes a LOT of
miles/gas to make up that difference.

There is also the 7.5k tax credit that would, on paper, drop this car down in
price, but still more than a fully loaded Cruze and in some cases I could get
a bigger Malibu for not much more (this all at the time over a year ago). To
get that tax credit means you have to owe the IRS that much in taxes, which we
never come close to each year. You owe less that 7.5k, your tax credit is
less! You owe nothing or get refunds each year (us) you get ZERO credit.

I then started to look at used market and started to notice these things were
asking prices of more than what new would cost with a full tax credit and
there were also very few of them in my area to choose from that had low miles.
Basically all ridiculously overpriced enough to where even expert negotiating
would be hard pressed to get me a good deal.

In the end, I just ended up realizing the Volt wasn't for me, no matter how
much I wanted it. I'd be sacrificing space and my wife even asked how I could
even think of getting such a small car as my last one was small enough. It was
priced as premium from dealers who were oblivious to how poor it was selling
it seemed and didn't want to move it regardless. I'd have to really change up
our W4's so we could maybe even get the full tax credit. Plus with the poor
dealership mentality of this car all in my area, I even questioned how well
they'd handle warranty issues or repair when I eventually needed them.

The Bolt was so new at the time so it wasn't an option/available in my area
and any that were in next state over were MSRP and no budge. I'd be highly
interested in the Bolt if I was doing it all over right now, but in the end I
moved on from the Volt never to really think again about owning one. America
has moved on from compact cars as well. I have one year left on a lease and
next year i will look at the Kona and Bolt but also in a segment I thought i'd
never want to drive - the compact SUV. CX-5 or Rav4 types. I want an EV bad
but it is hard to justify from a economic standpoint still in 2019.

------
trumped
hopefully this won't lead to another bailout

------
evv
Kind of a fucking shame. As individuals, we are generally quite powerless in
the climate crisis. The world is being ruined by companies and governments
that we generally cannot influence. The power we retain: how we spend our
money. Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for
the average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo.

Regardless of the ecological impact, I've quickly come to see ICE cars as
quite gross. I don't want tail pipes, the smell of gasoline fumes, or the
angry noises. My E-Golf is delightfully zippy and quiet. For the driving
experience, I'd choose this car in a heartbeat over any old-fashioned-engine
auto.

That being said, it does suck to have an EV because of range anxiety, having
to hunt for charging stations, and being forced to camp while the car charges.
I really wish I had an PHEV to address these issues, but there are sadly few
options on the market today.

I can only drive an EV because I've installed a charger at home, but most
people do not have the ability to do so. I'll have to get rid of my EV when I
move, downgrading to mini-explosions in my car.

...which leads to my point:

If Tesla was serious about transitioning the world to sustainable energy, they
would build a full PHEV lineup, or offer generator options for their existing
cars. You need to appeal to the vast majority of consumers who are not ready
for full electric. But I suspect Tesla won't do this because they have too
much pride.

~~~
door5
> Electric vehicles offer perhaps the most significant opportunity for the
> average consumer to improve the carbon emission status-quo

Public transit. Electric cars hardly put a dent in climate change. We need
higher density cities, less sprawl, more robust public transit, and a
nationwide high speed rail network. These all require political will, policy
change and public money -- no private company will do this.

> As individuals, we are generally quite powerless in the climate crisis. The
> world is being ruined by companies and governments that we generally cannot
> influence.

Right now the green new deal is an extremely popular idea in public
consciousness, and activists have pushed it to the point that nearly every
Democrat running for president has signed off on it. We are not powerless, use
your platform and your resources to advocate for political change.

~~~
shittyadmin
> less sprawl

> no private company will do this.

Many cities are blocking developers from buying up homes in old neighborhoods
to build apartments and condos which could house far more people closer to
their jobs. Often this boils down to NIMBYs lobbying city councils while those
who would buy said apartments aren't exactly in a place to do that.

There's a lot of low hanging fruit like this where trivial policy fixes could
go a long way without the political challenges of massive public spending, but
we can't even get these set up properly. A simple shift from allowing
developers to build more suburbs to more apartments and condos would do a lot
of good in many cities.

