
How to start a startup without ruining your life - Adamola
https://www.superhi.com/blog/how-to-start-a-startup-without-ruining-your-life
======
benologist
I did the life-ruining one as my previous startup. Then I did one that only
turned out to be a nice business. The good project and the disaster both took
about 3 years to build but the good project was always making money since week
1 cause it had to sustain me as I'd overextended myself in every way just
trying to sustain the disaster.

After about 3 years trying and failing to make the good project earn a lot
more money I wanted to do an exciting new startup. Having almost hit 6 digits
that third year meant I couldn't just ignore the good project and let it
atrophy but I didn't want to pursue an exciting new startup being anchored to
the good project all the time. I decided to sell it.

With that decision all of the remaining work became about transitioning from
'code on my computer' to 'coherent and pleasant part time job for someone else
to do well'. I replaced bash scripts and w/e other random crap with a web
interface and gutted my code and dependencies so that the person they find on
craigslist to add something in 2 years won't drown.

Now I'm completely free to work on my new startup and make something like a
good salary while I do, someone else takes care of the nice business in 5
hours a week. Probably half of HN could pull that off with a side project or
two. This is where patio11 and someone from feinternational.com described the
difference between the good project and the nice business -

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11347541](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11347541)

~~~
Blackstone4
How did you sell your side business? Just thinking aloud if I wanted to buy
one

~~~
cdelb
check out feinternational.com (OP mentioned them as well). I've been
subscribed to their "Buyers list" for over a year and I've seen many nice saas
businesses listed.

~~~
tarr11
Interesting, the multiples are 3-4x profit on that site. Is that pretty
standard for SaaS?

~~~
pc86
It's the last quarter's numbers annualized to a year so if there's been a
spike in the last quarter that isn't seen in prior financials that's a point
for negotiating the price. And it's also based on discretionary income so that
"profit" is not necessarily the actual profit the business took in. A lot of
expenses are considered discretionary but probably have a positive ROI.

So while 3-4x is normal (really 3-5x depending on the industry) the numbers on
FEI tend to be a tad high but not unreasonably so.

~~~
Blackstone4
Would you recommend looking any where else?

------
aldarn
Just a comment on the expected salaries for developers in London:

\- A junior developer at £20k is probably going to do you more harm than good

\- £30 - £40k for a junior developer is more reasonable, where £30k would be
fresh from red-brick uni (if lucky) or a couple years industry experience

\- A senior developer asking less than £50k is probably not super confident
(could be various reasons e.g. failing to get other jobs, not super
experienced) or experienced with startups

\- Good senior developers experienced with startups are more likely to be on a
minimum of £60k and anywhere up to £80/90k

Also it's a little more nuanced than this. A first hire developer might
(perhaps reasonably) expect to be a CTO or Tech Lead assuming further hires -
this is one of the reasons some developers consider working in startups as
it's a potential fast track to gain management-like experience. If you're
hiring a junior developer, this probably isn't the best idea and it should be
made clear to them this isn't the case. In hiring a senior developer it should
at the very least be discussed - the outcome of this may potentially be an
expectation of higher salary (either immediately or upon company growth). It's
not unheard of for small startups (seed / series A) to pay £100k+ for CTOs.

~~~
string
Is this a guideline for startups only? I work as the only dev in a small
design company but have no frame of reference for salary expectations as I've
never worked with other developers and transitioned into it from a design
role. I earn slightly more than the other employees (designers) but that's
still under £30k. I would consider myself more experienced than a junior.

~~~
chillydawg
What kind of dev tools and languages are you using? Hacking php for WordPress?

~~~
Shanea93
Some of the highest salaries in London for software engineers are for senior
developers at Ecommerce companies built on Magento or building Wordpress
websites for agencies.

The idea that PHP developers don't get paid much is erroneous, on average they
probably do, but the peaks are just the same. I currently earn £70k "hacking"
php in Magento and I'm based in Manchester where the cost of living is far
lower.

------
simmons5552
I started a company (actually several companies by now) because I knew that my
life literally depended on it. I had a job out of school at a big firm and I
absolutely hated it. The idea of getting up at 6:30 am every morning, wasting
precious time sitting in rush hour traffic, dealing with people at an office I
don't necessarily want to see, much less work with on a daily basis, sitting
in a cubicle working on something that just helps get someone else rich, was
just terrifying to me. I have a few people in my extended family who have
committed suicide and I knew that if I continued on this path I would
definitely, 100% be one of those people. I know others can, and some may even
enjoy it, but I simply cannot enjoy a life like that. So I started a company
and fought like I was going to war to save my own life, and it worked. I
worked really hard for about 5 years and now I have enough money that I never
have to worry about getting stuck in one of those dead end jobs I feared at
the start of my career. So, if you're thinking of starting a company, be ready
to go up against some competitors (depending on industry) who will fight you
to the death - if corporate life doesn't bother you so much, perhaps you
should stay there.

~~~
shostack
What did you end up starting as your first success and how did you decide to
start it?

------
riklomas
Hey everyone, I wrote this guide, if anyone has any questions about it, I'm
happy to answer and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the article!

~~~
digler999
opposite question as the other poster: what do you do if you have a great idea
(naturally everyone thinks their own ideas are great) but don't have the
entrepreneurial spirit ? I've been working on a project for a couple years,
still have about 25% of the work to go for it to be MVP, but I'd really like
to find a business partner/investor. I'm afraid to reach out though because I
dont know how to protect myself from being screwed.

~~~
riklomas
Sometimes you just gotta give it a go. I'm not saying quit your job and do it
full time, but if someone is going to steal your idea, then they're going to
steal your idea tomorrow or in a years time.

Everything is a risk, but you don't want to get to 90 and think "damn it, I
should have done that business".

The worst thing that might happen is you might run out of cash, give it up and
get another job. Or someone will rip you off (be it a biz partner, investor or
rival) and you give it up and get another job. It's stressful and not fun, but
you're not going to die if your startup fails.

~~~
digler999
> if someone is going to steal your idea

Just to clarify, I (gladly) fell out of love with my idea and dont so much
worry about people "stealing" it. I'm more worried about a business partner
building an "escape hatch" in the partnership contract and screwing me out of
ownership/stake. Not sure if that changes your answer or not.

~~~
ux-app
I recently bought on a partner for my business. It was definitely the best
thing I could have done. He's an absolute champ and has the same hunger for
success as me. Our skills are complimentary and our little business is slowly
but surely growing.

Of course protect yourself. Have a contract. Never go with a vague contract
and then hope for the best. Have everything in writing. Ownership stake,
expectations an escape hatch for either of you in case of a falling out etc.
For us there was a clause stating that the contract could be nullified by
either party within the first 90 days for any reason.

I had worked on my side business for 3.5 years at the point I partnered up. My
partner first spent 2 months working away and we didn't formalise the
agreement. We were making sure that we were going to work well together.

I finally said that we can't go on like this and we really need to formalise
his ownership etc. We discussed figures and arrived at an arrangement that
worked for us both.

In the end, for me it came down to this: own 100% of 0 or X% of a real
business.

Once that clicked for me, bringing on and trusting a partner was an easy
choice.

~~~
riklomas
Yes I agree with this. I think if you're going to offer equity too, offer
equity that vests over a longer period of time (3-4 years) might help keep
them connected and give them a reason to stay with the business too. Make them
work for ownership of the business.

------
sanderson1
I love the section about the first idea is probably not going to be the last
idea. I've seen startups come in with a very set idea of how the product was
going to work, only to find that the way it was going to work wasn't really
what customers were looking for.

Rather than defining how a product should work, startups should define their
mission and adapt their product to both accomplish their mission and meet the
needs/demands of the customer.

I've been involved in a few startups and this is what I've learned:

1\. Iteration is key and should be welcomed. 2\. Validation, as noted, is
incredibly important. 3\. Continuing to validate iterations ultimately leads
to a successful company.

~~~
Adamola
Absolutely! Couldn't agree more with this. Most often thing I see is teams
holding onto a solution to a problem that 1) no-one has, or 2) a few people
have but no-one cares about. Sometimes they also over engineer the early
iterations to a level of complexity that even prospective users won't "get
it". Starting small, doing the research & interview legwork to define the
problem, then design the smallest version of one possible product solution to
it, iterate, review continuously...

------
isomorph
Gotta tell you, that "giving a shit" scale isn't true in my case. I work for
an agency and we give much more of a shit about our client than the client's
internal devs do... about the code, about the business, you name it...

~~~
rl3
This. I've seen agencies that look like they're 11s on the give-a-shit scale.
Usually it's interactive creative design agencies that are both small enough
and young enough to really care about their reputation.

That said, using an agency to build your startup probably isn't the best idea
for so many reasons.

~~~
riklomas
Yes, I'd agree with this. The agency comment was more aimed at the medium- to
large-sized agencies rather than small, young ones (I kinda see them more as
freelancers when it's an agency of 2-7).

Also it's a big variance of caring, some big agencies do care a lot but
they're rare and hard to find. Some staff turn up late and are hungover every
other morning. It's a wide range but I was trying to average it out!

------
rkunnamp
How to start a startup without ruining your life 1\. Never accumulate personal
debt in the process of starting up 2\. Sleep, Exercise and eat well 3\. Never
forget 1 and 2

The rest are beyond your control by a large degree. Try your level best. And
Yea, occasionally read through such advices.

~~~
cableshaft
How do you start a startup if you're at least a few years from getting out of
existing debt? Is it even remotely feasible? I've been having urges to give it
a try but I'd be starting in the hole, which seems like a really bad idea.

I try to work on things in my off time but it's difficult finding the time
after working all day.

~~~
riklomas
Always have a back-up plan so I'd clear out your debts first.

------
yokisan
> 80% won't give you critical feedback, because humans like to avoid conflict
> and are polite

Haha. I wish!

"Your app sucks".

"Why is this not free?"

"Can I do X? Why can't I do X?"

"You changed Y and I hate it"

80% won't give you feedback, period. Because they've another 10 tabs open and
you've haven't intrigued them enough to warrant anymore of their precious time
and attention.

~~~
riklomas
This was aimed at the idea validation stage. You shouldn't have built anything
at this point as you're too busy talking to customers face-to-face, trying to
hone the idea down.

------
gravypod
I'd love for someone to write about howto meet people who you'd want to join
up with you as a cofounder. I know I wouldn't be able to do any of my high in
the sky plans by myself but I don't know many people who'd be up to taking the
plundge.

~~~
cr0sh
Probably already been done, but free idea?

An internet "dating site" for startup co-founders to meet on (you could have
the whole shebang - ratings, chat, profiles).

Maybe something like LinkedIn meets Match.com, with a sprinkle of YC thrown
in?

~~~
clovis
Actually, email matching might be suitable for this problem. I did a project
for matching flatmates a while ago. [1] Was trying to leverage a user's
facebook connections etc. to create better matches (e.g. 2nd degree
connections). If anyone is interested in taking it over/working on it let me
know. [1] [http://www.flatmate.io/](http://www.flatmate.io/)

------
rebekk99
Validating your idea. That is one of the best but most overlooked advise.
Validate, validate again.

~~~
riklomas
Yep, totally agree. A lot of founders don't do this as they're too attached to
the idea or too worried about criticism. It's a tough learning process to get
over the negative feedback.

~~~
contingencies
This seems quite hyped advice in SV recently, but validation can be difficult
for certain classes of businesses. For example, I recently spoke to a US
startup founder who had failed in what is roughly our segment, burning $300k.
His advice: validate, validate, validate! In our area, however, it is
essentially impossible to do so without similar to launch expenses, so we are
just running with a regular development trajectory (in a far cheaper and
higher demand market with other positive attributes) and the broad assumption
that people want to eat food - [http://8-food.com/](http://8-food.com/)

~~~
karthikb
Everything can be iterated. The degree to which this iteration can be
accomplished is really highly dependent on the complexity of your product,
but, in terms of iteration complexity (and highly simplified, dropping lots of
intermediate points, etc):

Polished product > Happy path demo > Mockups (mechanical, digital, etc) > User
stories > Deck

At the very least iterate on things like the user stories to make sure your
customers can see your product fitting in to their day to day life. Without
any form of iteration, you're leaving the most important thing -- product
market fit -- somewhat to chance.

~~~
contingencies
You're right, but as with anything the management-level questions are (1) risk
versus reward; (2) (finite) resource invested versus value derived (versus
other options for those resources).

In our case, we can iterate easily based upon real market information post-
launch. It's literally _illegal_ to do market research otherwise, so we can't
really get a foot in the door hyper-analyzing potential segments ahead of
schedule.

------
birdpers0n
"It’s always easier to work with your friends rather than searching for
someone to be your co-founder. You trust them and you have faith in their
abilities. However, startups will strain even the most solid of
relationships."

Not only that, they could ruin your relationship with your friends forever.
Friends are friends, business partners are business partners. Been there, done
that.

------
desireco42
Not that many comments. Here is what I would like to say, I love how you
structured SuperHi as a both online course and 1-1 mentorship. That way people
get best of both worlds. To me that says you care about what you are doing and
your customers. This is important and will enable this business to be viable
long term.

~~~
riklomas
Thank you! Yeh, we've been consistently asking customers what works for them
over the two or so years we've been running. We found that a lot of people get
stuck very quickly with the free online courses that are out there, and they
wanted to create sites from scratch rather than learning about HTML, CSS and
Javascript – it's a very slight difference, practical vs theory.

We've found that the 1:1 help informs the course material too - if we get the
same request topics in the 1:1 help, it's obvious we're missing something from
the course material, so we add it in.

------
gagzilla
Almost all such articles miss the most crucial self assessment piece- if you
are married/in a relationship make sure you and your partner have a good
understanding of the potential stress that you are about to take on. It can
make all the difference in making shitty days tolerable or even more terrible.

------
ankitsoni
It’s better to try and fail than never try at all. Sums it up. Thanks for the
great article.

~~~
elwell
Not really. Failing is bad. It's better to not try at all if you're going to
fail, unless you can learn something that makes you succeed in the future.
Otherwise, trying will mean missed opportunity costs.

~~~
beejiu
It is difficult to know whether you are going to fail, but easy to know
whether you are going to try. Nobody sets out to fail.

------
Adamola
Such an amazing response to this thread! Thanks everyone. Rik (the author)
made the original article into an ebook as a result of all this great
conversation. It's on Product Hunt books also now, should you wish to check it
out: [https://www.producthunt.com/posts/how-to-start-a-startup-
wit...](https://www.producthunt.com/posts/how-to-start-a-startup-without-
ruining-your-life) :)

------
doozler
Great article, thank you! As a developer I often dream about having a startup.
I don't want anything large or fancy but a nice little SaaS app that can
generate some income. I'm absolutely terrible at marketing and I can never
seem to come up with a good idea / product. Do you have any suggestions as to
where I can get inspiration for products or find markets that need something?

------
vonnik
The title of the piece is slightly misleading. It's really more like: Roundup
of startup advice based on one person's journey. There's decent advice, but
it's not really structured to support the title, which would seem to require a
few counterexamples of ruin.

~~~
riklomas
"Roundup of startup advice based on one person's journey" wasn't a catchy
enough title.

I should have linked to [http://autopsy.io/](http://autopsy.io/) \- a good
place to read about why startups failed from the founders.

------
kdazzle
Not to be a geography troll, but... I'm sure the rest of the article is great.

> SuperHi has online courses which means we have students from California to
> Australia, all due to the internet.

Lol, sounds like a whole lot of fish to me, amirite?

~~~
DrScump

      sounds like a whole lot of fish to me, amirite?
    

Courses, like fish, tend to congregate in schools.

------
arzt
I can't reiterate the incentive vs caring point he makes enough. Agencies
exist to satisfy a requirement, collect a check, and run. Engage them warily
for dev/design.

------
emodendroket
"Niché"? Someone should edit that misguided bit of pedantry out.

------
partycoder
If starting a startup is in your mind, I strongly this series of videos from
Sam Altman (@sama) from YCombinator:
[http://startupclass.samaltman.com/](http://startupclass.samaltman.com/)

