
A Guide for Adults Going to College - jqcoffey
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/23/678799694/in-never-too-late-finally-a-guide-for-adults-going-to-college
======
two2two
I'm a returning student about to complete my degree at the end of this year. I
went to an art school for a few years out of high school and ended up in
customer service positions with some great companies. I didn't want to
continue in customer service, so I decided to go back to school. Started with
two years at community college, and now finishing up my last two at
university.

Some insights I picked up along the way:

\- community college have great professors

\- community college treats you like the adult you are

\- community college is underrated

\- university treats you like a child

\- university professors are more selfish and self-serving

\- university is busy dealing with so much extra-curricular stuff that most
adults don't care about, it makes you question your decision

\- Different "schools" within the university do things differently

\- as an adult, it sucks to work in groups with young students

\- I picked up way more knowledge in the "real world" than I realized as a lot
of what is being taught is redundant

\- there should be 4 semesters a year, not 2, people should graduate in 2
years, not 4+

At the onset of this journey, I was enthusiastic to learn, but along the way
I've been beat down to just wanting to get "the piece of paper" and be done.
It's been a long three years and each day forward is increasingly difficult to
stomach since I realized I can learn all of what is being taught to me faster
on my own.

I don't think anyone needs a degree anymore to get to where they're going.
However, it does make it easier depending on one's path.

~~~
twblalock
I did my first few years of college at a community college and my experience
was that the college had to be very strict about attendance and dropping
students who didn't show up. Frankly a lot of them were stoners who were only
in school because their parents would cut off support if they dropped out.

The professors were underpaid and many of them didn't care -- some did care
and were excellent teachers, but a lot of them were bitter about their career
outcomes and just went through the motions. My best professors were the ones
who had careers outside of the community college and taught part time,
including a tenured professor at Stanford and a professional archeologist.

Honestly it's hard for me to recommend community college to people who are
driven and dedicated to their educations, because so many of the other people
in those institutions are not like that.

If I could go back in time I would gladly borrow an extra $20k to go to a
university from the beginning. Over the time scale of a lifetime, or even just
a decade, that's not a lot of money.

~~~
bsder
> The professors were underpaid and many of them didn't care -- some did care
> and were excellent teachers, but a lot of them were bitter about their
> career outcomes and just went through the motions.

Given how little it pays to teach in a community college, I'm surprised there
is _any_ teacher who didn't care.

~~~
darpa_escapee
This was my experience. I started in a community college, and my professors
were there after retiring from industry, so they had little use for the meager
salary they earned. The other professors worked at nearby universities, as
well.

They genuinely liked to teach and loved it when they could get their students
to care about a subject as much as they did themselves. You could tell they
did it out of passion, and moreover, for the students.

------
porphyrogene
It is never too late for education. It is always too early for crippling debt
that exceeds your proven earning potential. None of this advice touches on the
lost principle of not putting one's future on layaway. Student load debt
forgiveness is a death sentence for American politicians yet there are
millions of us waiting for a miracle.

~~~
sjg007
It will happen if you vote blue. The first wave of it was 10 year of payments
and then debt forgiveness.

~~~
xyzzyz
That will push college prices even higher.

~~~
kamarg
Can you explain why that is to me? I would think that if the expected return
on college loans drops significantly, fewer large loans would be given out
that can be passed on to universities which would see less demand for their
product and would need to lower their prices accordingly.

~~~
Mountain_Skies
The universities aren't on the hook for student loan defaults so they don't
care about the expected return for the borrower or the lender. If students
borrowed from the schools directly, then the admissions process along with
university spending patterns would be vastly different. The only thing we have
that is remotely close to this is schools giving out scholarships to students
who have great potential to be high earners who later donate back to the
school.

~~~
l9k
A startup called Lambda started teaching (online) for free in exchange for a
percentage of the new graduate's salary. This is called Income Sharing
Agreements (ISA).

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/business/dealbook/educati...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/business/dealbook/education-
student-loans-lambda-schools.html)

------
jeena
Because of how the German school system is build (Hauptschule, Realschule,
Gymnasium) and me migrating to Germany at 11 years of age without the
knowledge of the German language, I had to do it differently and attend
something like Gymnasium as an adult after my first vocational training (to
become a heating engineer) and because of life happening and me once again
migrating to another country (Sweden) without the knowledge of the language, I
started university when I was 30.

Everyone else was about 20, partying and drinking, and I was studying 100% and
working 50%. It was kind of hard and I'm about 10 years late with my life
(compared to everyone else at work) but I finally feel that I am doing
something which is challenging and fun at work and I earn a lot more than
before.

The only bad thing is the biological clock not stopping to match everything
else ^^.

~~~
171243
Yeah but what you gained from that experience is beyond measure. I assume
you're bi or tri-lingual now?

~~~
jeena
Four-lungual, I needed to learn English too.

------
NeedMoreTea
"It's never too late"

Well I would agree, but since the UK adopted the US model of university
funding, it's too late, and has been for some time.

I'd love to career change into something different. £27k of tuition fees and
three years not earning makes it a £150k+ proposition. No matter how bored
I've become with tech after 30 years that's a big ask. Open University charges
the same fees now or that would have been an easy and obvious route. Just as
it was for my aunt who did a OU degree in her seventies "for fun". From what I
hear from the kids university isn't as appealing either as they've become ever
more commercial.

Friends who are in lower paying careers are even more stuck. The push to get
50% of the population with a degree means even the most lowly jobs and careers
often now _require_ a degree.

I guess when I become too much the curmudgeonly old git I'll take early
retirement and do some part time gardening, handyman or some such. Shame for
the govt about the tax I won't be paying. :)

~~~
a-saleh
You could try some of the lesser known universities in Europe, a.f.a.i.k
tuition is around 1k to 3k eur per semester (i.e. my IT faculty in Brno, CZK
has 3k Eur per academic year).

I finished my masters here, I consider the education quality reasonably good
(hey, I even helped my theis advisor to publish a paper :) and I worked part-
time for most of the time.

Friend of mine just finished his BCs, while supporting his partners a family
and working part-time.

------
ddoolin
I really want to go back to finish school. I'm 28 and dropped out at the end
of my 3rd year with 97 credits because I had a baby on the way in another
country. I've been working as a software engineer ever since. I did try one
semester at a CC shortly after but my job was too demanding on top of
parenting a wee lad and I took a slate of all Fs, sadly, since I missed the
withdrawal date. Now I have the time, funds, and motivation to return and do
well (I hope) but fear my sliding grades towards the end would put a nail in
the coffin of going to decent university near me (Southern California).

I think my real-world experience would help me a lot here, particularly if I
applied to a CS program, but I'm not sure. I will speak to admissions
counseling soon to get their feedback, but if anyone here has similar
experience, I'd love to hear about it.

~~~
barry-cotter
You have multiple years professional experience in programming. You can
probably get onto the Oxford M.Sc. in Software Engineering but the deadline is
soon. If you miss it the next one is in March.

[https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-
softwar...](https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/graduate/courses/msc-software-
engineering?wssl=1)

Applicants are normaly expected to be predicted or have achieved a first-class
or strong upper second-class undergraduate degree with honours (or equivalent
international qualifications), as a minimum, in a related subject, such as
computer science, informatics or engineering. For applicants with a degree
from the USA, the minimum GPA sought is 3.5 out of 4.0. Applications are
invited from anyone with sufficient experience or proven ability in software,
security, or data engineering. A typical applicant will have at least two
years' experience in a professional environment, and an undergraduate degree
in a related subject. However, more extensive experience may compensate for a
lack of formal qualifications, and a strong, immediately-relevant
qualification may compensate for a lack of professional experience. Emphasis
not in original

~~~
ddoolin
That sounds like a really fascinating course to take, and I'm tempted to apply
just to see how I fare. The cost is a bit out of my reach if I'm being honest.
I do make very good money but I also spend good on two children, rent in
California, etc. Thank you for sharing this with me.

~~~
barry-cotter
In that case you’re probably better off asking how hard it would be to get
onto the Georgia Tech Online Master of Computer Science at

www.reddit.com/r/omscs

The Master’s itself costs less than $10K still but you’d need to do enough
undergraduate courses to have credits sufficient for a Bachelor’s, though I
don’t think you actually need to be awarded one. So if I remember right you’d
need to do a year’s worth of coursework towards a Bachelor’s and then you’d be
admittable. Not sure though, ask in the subreddit.

------
gojomo
I'm looking forward to someone writing "It's Always Too Early". It'd be a
guide for people of all ages to acquire the same education/network/skills as
college purportedly offers, without the immense monetary and opportunity costs
of the legacy university system.

~~~
jshowa3
Problem is many companies work off this legacy system and won't hire you
without a degree. No engineering degree, no law degree, no doctor degree, no
degree at all? No thanks. Of course I'm not saying there are other ways, but
its very naive to think that you can get anywhere without one. Not only that,
the "legacy university system" is a system that's big on research and has
invented things like the very Internet you used to type this comment.
Autonomous vehicles were an early university project funded by DARPA before
they even reached the mainstream public. In fact, most modern products are the
result of university research. Its not so much the university as it is the
cost of university.

~~~
gojomo
Sure, but many of the best companies are deemphasizing traditional
credentials, commensurate with the bloating of the the university system and
the rise of other training/evaluation methods.

With student debts and the rise of alternative tracks, we may be very close to
a rapid tipping point, where the apparent safety of the traditional
credentials – with stodgier institutions – collapses quickly.

And, the university system of 2019 isn't quite the same thing as the
university system that gave us "the very Internet… used to type this comment"
and other advances. It's a several-generations-removed descendant, with much
higher costs, larger bureaucracy, more bundled tangential "lifestyle"
services, heavier political loads, and so forth.

That some legacy university research has historically generated societal
dividends isn't necessarily relevant to a prospective undergrad in 2019.
That's especially so for those struggling with the kinds of questions
addressed by the 'Never Too Late' book, like "What do I do if it's been ages
since I took algebra?" They need efficient instruction. The fact that
groundbreaking grant-funded research by graduate students might be happening
in a nearby building is about as relevant as their school's football ranking
in the Top-25 polls.

~~~
jshowa3
If the best companies are de-emphasizing traditional credentials, why do most
employees have degrees and why do they use coding interviews that question you
on raw CS questions?

The problem with alternative tracks is that they bottle neck you. They often
teach you a technology, they don't teach you an actual skill. Of course, its
not that this isn't important, but the fundamentals take you much further
because they're not tied to anything specific. Coupled with the knowledge of a
technology, it can help you understand what you're doing and what the
limitations are. Also, universities are pretty well rounded in terms of
learning so they teach you about being a better person instead of being a
coder like in a code camp.

Not only that, most popular MOOC sites are run by universities such as MIT,
Coursera, and EdX. In fact the most top voted courses on
[https://hn.academy/](https://hn.academy/) are from universities.

Sure it isn't the same generations ago, but you're highlighting problems that
aren't inherent to the idea of the university itself. Costs can be reduced,
bureaucracies trimmed, "lifestyle services" is basically the business of the
Internet due to rampant self-help, not sure what you mean by "heavier
political loads".

"What do I do if it's been ages since I took algebra?" is something you
shouldn't address by going to university, you're correct. But if you expect to
just learn an entire profession by reading a bunch of Internet articles, doing
some exercises/projects, and expect to walk into companies, you're still a far
cry, especially from the more demanding law/engineering/MD professions.

------
dver
Mid 50's here. As my kids are hitting college age I'm starting to get the itch
to go back and complete my degree. My company has a facility near Cal Poly,
where I went, and I drive by on my way in and out of town when I go onsite.
Really don't know what to expect, figure I'll just wander on campus and stop
by the admin building and see what they have to say. I'll bring my old student
ID with me, just in case.

~~~
abecedarius
In my experience you can just show up the first day and ask the prof if they
mind you auditing the course. There might be password-locked online materials
these days, however.

I've thought about going back to finish the degree, but it's hard to see it as
worth $60k/year.

~~~
dver
Agree, I'll have a value point to balance as well. I don't expect it to have
any net effect on my career at this point, hope there is some worthwhile
learning though.

------
somberi
I am hoping to hear suggestions or real-life experience of anyone who has gone
back to do their Phd after turning 50. My wife and I, both professionally and
financially settled, are looking to stop working at 50, and take up something
close to our hearts, which will be our _second_ 20-year innings. We would like
to start that innings with doing a Phd in that field.

We both have Masters and an MBA in our respective fields. The next innings
will be based on our current experience (30+ years) and our education, but
hoping to apply it in a macro, policy framework, for which will go back to
study.

------
chrisseaton
I went back to university as an adult with a mortgage, wife, daughter on the
way, and I did an internship. Nobody seemed to particularly notice or care
that I was older and I'm not sure it changed anything.

~~~
throwaway427
How old were you when you did it?

~~~
chrisseaton
26, so not a lot older in years, but at a very different point in my life -
settled with wife, mortgage etc, which makes a big difference I think.

------
theparanoid
I'm switching careers from tech to nursing. Being older--mid-thirties--hasn't
been an issue. It helps that healthcare has less of an age bias than
computing.

~~~
nostromo
My significant other just got a job as a captain at a major airline. At 30 he
was one of the youngest people hired in his cohort. In aviation experienced
captains with lots of fly time and safe and timely arrivals are seen as
assets.

It's quite a contrast to what we hear about in tech.

~~~
reificator
I'm still young but this has always been my question as well. When is tech
going to grow up and recognize experience as an asset? Beyond of course
putting "10 years of Julia 1.0 experience" as a requirement to be hired in a
junior level position.

~~~
chooseaname
As soon as older people and younger people learn to have respect for one
another. I mean, what other answer is there? If tech doesn't want older people
then they don't have respect for what older people bring to the table. Why is
that? Could be older people are less flexible? Less willing to change? I don't
know. Specifics probably aren't important. It comes down to respect.

~~~
bregma
Could be that older people are less flexible. I mean, I've been a professional
software developer on the forefront of new tech development for about 40
years. I can't seem to do anything else but learn new tech as it comes along
and churn out successful products, so I guess I'm rigidly set in my ways.

It helps that I work remotely. Very few see my grey beard and get the chance
to see how inflexible I am because of my age, so I get the respect due a
younger person.

------
pie_hacker
I believe the title is slightly misleading; most college students are above 18
and are thus widely considered to be adults. This guide seems to be written
for adults who are 25 and older, which is a subset of all adults.

------
gumby
When I was an undergrad there was a 35-year-old real estate developer living
in my dorm. He had decided he'd like to have a degree and enrolled at MIT.

I wish I had understood what it must have been like for him since there was
nobody else in the building under 25. I know he had a sense of humor as I saw
him once bring a date (around his age) back to his room.

But though we talked a bit I couldn't really comprehend what someone twice my
age thought about being a student...and now I'm 17 years older than he was at
the time I'd be fascinated to know.

------
sys_64738
There's a pivot point for when going to college doesn't have the ROI, IMO. I
got a CS degree at 22 and did an MBA in my 30s. When I did a law degree in my
late 30s I quickly realized it wasn't worth it unless I was doing it for the
pure academic PoV. But I wanted a law degree to practice law but decided that
it wasn't worth it in my case. I was almost 40.

FWIW, I also discovered there are two types of law degree. A Harvard law
degree and a non-Harvard law degree. It was quite an eye opener that one.

------
wpdev_63
I don't understand why anyone would consider going back to college when
there's very legitimate online course options that cost a fraction. Look
through edx.org and see for yourself.

Remember there's no guarantee that going back to school will net you the job
you want but it's a guarantee that you will go into crippling debt that will
follow you for the rest of your life.

Unless of course your company is paying for you to go back to school then why
not.

~~~
gowld
Where are the lab classes in edx?

Where are the vocational courses in edx?

Where are the teaching assistants and the study groups?

Where are the 12+ course bachelors-degree curricula?

~~~
wpdev_63
Imagine the person smart enough to substitute each of those things with
something freely available. Just imagine.

------
wink
I don't get this. Sure, it's been a while since I started university (fall
2003) but is stuff really spoonfed to starter students? I'm not saying you
have to deliberately make everything hard - but we got a little bit of
introduction in the first week and then were sent off to cope on our own. You
had the other students, older semesters and whatever else resource to solve
your problem.

I don't think I'd want it any other way these days (oh wow, 15 years later) or
feel that _anything_ except the first week was tailored to people fresh from
school. Sure - people taking courses around their work schedule is a problem,
but it's a totally different problem. Either you know it's supposed to be a
fulltime course, or it's not.

Also, maybe I'm a little biased for having majored in Computer Science, so
mostly everything was digital or online even back then. But smartphones would
make coordination with other people so much easier than email and texts... Or
maybe American (live-in / campus) colleges are really that different from
German universities that I simply cannot imagine the problems this book would
show :P

------
mrfusion
I’ve always wondered how employers treat an older person changing careers? Do
you get an internship along with the young people? Is that wierd? Will they be
uncomfortable asking a 45 year old professional to do low status jobs?

And then are entry level jobs open to older adults?

How would you design your resume? Leave your past career off?

~~~
zigzaggy
All very good questions. I’m at the Senior Manager level in my profession,
trying to switch to entry / junior level in IT security. I have solid
experience and great references, and I get calls from clients and recruiters
constantly for work in my current field. But I get practically no responses
when I submit myself for positions in the new field.

I tracked one recruiter down recently and she basically told me she’s
convinced I will not stick around once I feel the pinch of the salary
reduction. She said she didn’t want to be hiring for the same job again in 6
months.

I’m not sure that’s the whole truth, or if the others would say the same
thing.

Now I’m trying a hybrid solution, of freelancing gigs in grants and proposals
part time and doing technical work part time. I’m also focusing my work on
tech-centric topics whenever possible. But I usually can’t conteol that.

I’m also considering supplementing my current education with CS classes, and
picking up a few more certs. But I’m not sure those will have a good return on
investment.

Meanwhile I think persistence in bidding on jobs will be the ultimate
solution.

~~~
sjg007
You might have better luck becoming a manager of or in an IT security company.
That way you can learn the technical details on the side. So you sell your
value as a manager. Lateral moves happen all the time across domains. You
don't have to start from the beginning again.

~~~
zigzaggy
This is a good idea too. I guess I always assumed I would need to “work my way
up” from entry level. But I do have a lot of experience running teams and
managing budgets.

Thanks for the input. I’m going to broaden my search and look for these roles,
and see what happens.

------
lkrubner
Recently on Hacker News there was a top voted article in which the economist
Nassim Nicolas Taleb made the point that a lot of small bets have a higher
expected value than one very large bet. But the argument has interesting
implications for education. The same reasoning implies that 4 degrees of 1
year should have more payoff to society than 1 degree of 4 years. Likewise,
society would benefit more if you got 12 degrees of 3 months each. I wrote
more about this here:

[http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/nassim-nicholas-
taleb...](http://www.smashcompany.com/philosophy/nassim-nicholas-taleb-
accidentally-argues-against-4-year-school-degrees)

~~~
ggm
Taleb's insight applies where there is no linkage between bets.

The problem is, a 4 year degree "if done right" is building on a body of
knowledge. you can't "do" year 4 without the core competencies in years 1,2
and 3.

So, (and I admit I didn't read your article) I ask if you address the
neccessary linkage problem.

Because a chain of 4 small bets is what we call a quinella or trifecta, and in
betting circles its high payoff, but low likelihood: It may be better to
commit to the whole big package than assume you can bite of chunks and always
get the same value.

A midpoint model, is to do 1 or 2 years, get a low degree, then do 2 or 3 more
and specialize for a high degree.

~~~
lkrubner
You miss the point that Taleb is making. His point is something like “Rather
than one big bet in biology, what about a small bet in biology, a small bet in
physics, a small bet in chemistry.” Likewise, in education, instead of
spending 4 years learning one thing, what about spending one year learning one
thing, another year learning something else, another year learning something
else, another year learning something else, and so on. Smaller, more diverse
bets. The argument is especially strong for young people at the start of their
career, as the risk of being overcommitted to the wrong thing is strong.

------
andyv
When I was a graduate teaching assistant at a 4-year university, the re-entry
students never failed to impress me. They were the most determined students I
had. They weren't afraid to confront me when I made a mistake, and I made a
few.

------
nkot
What are the chances of attending Harvard / Stanford later in life? I have a
life goal of going there but the older I get (24 now), the less I believe it
can form into a reality.

~~~
stale2002
Attending Harvard is actually quite easy. They offer classes, both online
_and_ onsite, for anyone who is willing to pay tuition.

These classes are offered under a program called "Harvard Extension School",
and they are the same exact classes that students who got accepted the
"normal" way, take.

It even gets you a degree.

If what you care about is the education and resources offered by Harvard, they
are available for the taking, and they are the same exact classes offered to
"regular" students.

~~~
OldHand2018
I'm doing the Harvard Extension program right now and am currently on campus
taking a course (you cannot go 100% online and get a degree).

My last class, in the fall, was a course that was offered online for the first
time ever. We had a bunch of Harvard College students in-person and a bunch of
Harvard Extension students online watching the lectures live (they are also
recorded). Office hours with TAs were live-streamed and interactive between
in-person and online students, we had the same homework and exams, etc. The
professor even gave out his cell phone number so we could text questions
directly to him.

The professor asked us all about our interest in a particular class that they
had been asked about offering online. As it turns out, Harvard is fairly open
about offering almost any of their courses online if you can show that demand
warrants it, the professor supports it, and that you can get the TA slots
filled.

------
madiathomas
I dropped out in 2004 to start a job as a Programmer. I was broke and needed
some cash. I was left with 4 subjects to complete Computer Systems Engineering
qualification. Which is 60% IT and 40% Electrical Engineering. I decided to
enroll for an IT qualification in 2015 at the age of 33. Best decision I have
ever taken.

I graduated last year September at the age of 36 and I am no longer considered
an IT dropout or self-taught Programmer. Reason I decided to go back to school
was because I was always considered a self-taught Programmer, even though I
was taught programming in a formal qualification which I didn't finish. The
fact that I finished all programming related modules and was only left with
3-4 Electrical Engineering related modules, didn't help.

Studying when you are older is easier because you are doing it with a purpose.
Plus when you are older, you spend more time at home and party less. Freeing
more time for studying. The course I did, was heavy in programming, mobile app
development and web design. Something I have been doing for over 10 years
before I decided to go back to studying.

------
generallee5686
I have a pessimistic view of all this. If you are able to get into a college
program easily, the job market will be shit once you get out. If the job
market would be great, you'll never get into a program.

Colleges have stupid games based on a point system to get in. The games are
HEAVILY biased towards people just out of high school. You only get points for
shit like having taken classes at the school before or your parents being
alumni. Having real world working experience doesn't give you any points.

My wife was thinking about going to nursing school. In order for her to do
that she would need to quit her job take random classes for the _chance_ to
eventually get into a program. We're ready to pay cash for the program which
she would certainly succeed in, but there is just no chance. Was a real bummer
once we realized this.

I guess this all makes sense, just frustrating.

------
zoom6628
Shout out to massey.ac.nz which is one of the very first universities world
wide to have serious 'extra mural' programme. They have decades of experience
and everything is tuned for the working adult. For anybody in any country
should seriously consider. They have extramural students from all over the
world because you get world class staff, from a world class university, at NZ
prices.

Anybody in US should seriously consider it an option for higher learning.

FYT i did a post graduate Diploma in QUality Assurance with specialty in
software engineering through Massey with course work done 1993-95 and finally
delivered my project in 1997 after changing countries and jobs. Cant praise
them enough.

------
rwhitman
I've been curious if there are any creative financial or work/education
balance strategies for a tech professional going back to school, that might
not be obvious?

Networking with professors? Working at the university? Or finding an employer
that subsidizes grad school? Haven't seen too much on my radar in this area
but have heard there are unconventional ways to offset the cost or level up by
leveraging my network & career.

(For context - I'm in my late 30's, ~17 years in tech though my degree is from
a trade art school, and in an engineering management role these days in Los
Angeles. I've been seriously considering grad school either for CS or MBA.)

------
filmgirlcw
I think about going back for my MBA sometimes (slightly different from the
article, but still similar in other ways), but I'm at the mid point in my
career and I'm not convinced the money and time I spend going back would
actually help me further my career more than building connections and actually
doing the work. Senior managers I've talked to have agreed with my assessment.
At best, an MBA would get me back to where I've already managed to get myself,
but with maybe more attention for certain recruiters.

I'm a big fan of anyone wanting to further their education for whatever the
reason -- and I do wish I could sometimes just study really interesting
subjects again -- but for a lot of working professionals, I sometimes wonder
if the degree will really matter?

Obviously, some professions are different than others and really do require a
certain degree to even get in the door (medicine, law, sciences), but by the
time I was 34, I'd managed to successfully build two careers in different
disciplines, and neither was the focus of my degree. (And I took forever to
graduate.)

Every person and situation is different so I don't want to pretend my
experiences are prescriptive for anyone else -- but what I value about my
undergrad experience is much less "what I learned" and the experiences I had
growing up, having time to explore things I care about, etc.

Frankly, I wish there was a collegiate equivalent of a GED that would cover
undergrad required classes like a science, a math class, english lit, history,
etc. Make people take the actual degree classes, but allow people to test out
of all the basic requirements (I realize CLEP allows for some of this but CLEP
isn't accepted everywhere and there can be CLEP caps for credits). I feel like
for a lot of adult learners, this would greatly reduce the mental challenge of
"going back."

What I wish this had touched on more is the pervasive and predatory nature of
for-profit colleges and universities. I'm all for anyone going back to school,
but it makes me sick when people pay tens of thousands of dollars for bad
programs from fro-profit places that have a very small chance at even helping
them get a better job.

------
lsc
"The other important thing to do is to help adults identify why they want to
go back to school. If you can identify what it is that's motivating you, then
that can be your rallying cry when you're starting to feel discouraged or
anxious about starting school."

Lol. So I've been reading stuff about our ideas of free will; most recently
David Orr's book on Frost; but the quote above really sounds like they're
suggesting we decide to do something and then need to "identify what it is
that's motivating you" I.E. to rationalize it.

I'm not saying they're wrong, it's just a funny way to put it.

------
gnulinux
I want to go back to school. I graduated undergrad in 3 years so even though I
have a Bachelor's in CS, I still feel half-baked. I studied CS only because I
freaking love it and learning more is my utter passion. I want to have a
graduate degree in CS... but how? I have a job, I have other stuff to do now,
and taking an almost decade investment sounds way too much (in US PhDs can
take very long). I'm a very socially awkward dude and spending my entire 20s
in PhD almost seems socially "risky". Did someone else have experience on this
matter? I have otherwise have the funds and passion to pursue this.

~~~
171243
Georgia Tech's Online Masters of Computer Science. 100% online and same degree
you get from the on campus program which happens to be a top 10 in the nation.
There is no research track unfortunately which means it is a terminal masters
program.

~~~
opportune
Not sure where you're getting that a non-thesis masters program is "terminal".
You can still go somewhere to get a PhD with a non-research master's degree,
not even necessarily somewhere "bad". If anything the fact that the degree is
online would hurt you more than the fact that there was no thesis

------
danellis
I've often wondered, is there a way to get a _reputable_ CS degree that
leverages a couple of decades of work experience to make the process shorter?
The article says so in the general case, but what about specifically for CS?

------
dawhizkid
What is the consensus on coding schools in 2019? I'm looking at app academy
and lambda school.

~~~
barry-cotter
[https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1082363551178665985?...](https://twitter.com/austenallred/status/1082363551178665985?s=21)

There are multiple companies whose engineering headcount growth YOY is bigger
than the total number of annual CS + bootcamp grads in the US.

Yes, there are a lot more engineers coming on board now. But the growth in
demand is mind-boggling.

[https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1082101947795091458?s=21](https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1082101947795091458?s=21)

In case you were wondering whether the engineering hiring market was slowing
down, here’s Amazon deploying probably every YC company combined on _one
product_ : [https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-says-it-has-
over-10-000-...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-says-it-has-
over-10-000-employees-working-on-alexa-echo-1542138284)

------
BuckRogers
There's a problem with society, in the west, but I'll speak to the US
specifically. My wife just received her Masters degree. Her and I have family
that act as if life is hopeless. All ages. We tell them, "the schools aren't
closed". The wishing upon a star has to stop with people. Take action. It's a
culture in decline, and seeing how the school system directs my wife to not
instill discipline in children, combined with the intrinsic low-wage push from
capitalism without unions or worker's cooperatives, the entire US workforce
will be eaten alive by the Indians and Chinese. It's almost guaranteed to
continue, and has already happened.

A quick example on that, her school system (one of the largest in the nation)
instructs her to let the kids who don't want to listen to a book to roll
around, yell, play. Then she's to pull them aside later on and teach them one-
on-one, while the rest are napping. That's not only disruptive, but it's not
feasible. I think this culture change (it was not this way when I was in
elementary in the 1980s), has doomed generations to wandering around the
streets aimlessly. Possibly using drugs as so many are today, as immigrants
come in and completely obliterate them from the job market. I'm not an
immigrant but I say, let the strong survive and weaker cultures, like ours is
becoming, collapse into mediocrity. The lucky ones who get the opportunity to
turn it around later in life will be looking at "the guide for adults going to
college" today, 1 year from now, 5 years from now, 50 years from now. My wife
and I believe that you can't really learn without a baseline of discipline.
There's enough distractions as it is and bad families to fight against.

Kids need guidance. They don't actually know anything. The people who let
their kid choose a hamburger vs hot dog vs grilled cheese for 15 minutes in a
fast food joint? That's a small example of the problem. A child doesn't know
what he's even picking, or what he even likes. You give him something, you
very strongly encourage him finish his food, and next time he may have a
better idea on what he wants. That's a long-lost art of parenting in the west.
Everyone treats children like they're 35 years old. Unless it's about going
outside and playing, where they could truly learn about choices and
consequences.

Second point, on the the "formal education is obsolete" crowd. I needed a
bachelors degree and truly enjoyed the directed-learning experience, otherwise
I'm self-taught. People like to say they're all self-taught, but people who
also do school, do both. There's not additional real-world experience that you
gleam because you don't go to school. It's nice to get evidence for your
learning as well (a degree) and directed-learning is incredibly valuable,
you're exposed to things that the vast majority won't expose themselves to
otherwise. People who call for the end of traditional education because
Youtube or websites exist are just wishing upon a star that things get easier.

Further on formal education, community college is amazing. I also have an
Associate of Applied Science degree. In fact, if I were to do it all over
again, I would likely pick electrician/HVAC/plumbing/welding for my AA/AS and
get a BA in Education or BS in CompSci, to really cover being employable. I've
spent a lifetime programming, and truly benefited from some online sources as
well, especially Pluralsight, though most instructors there are well-vetted
professionals, many authors there are not the best in designing coursework.
Purposefully checking into algorithms and some of the math behind it all was
also helpful. That's where lack of an education background causes one to fall
apart, people online do not know about how to educate, and you don't know what
you don't know to even look into, and why traditional directed education is as
relevant as ever.

A third thing people miss, if you care about the best learning experience.
Many people seek a degree to get a job, it doesn't earn you a job or even make
you employable, it earns you credibility. I wouldn't go to school unless you
have a thirst for learning, because to put it to work in a beyond mediocre
fashion, will require continuous learning.

------
twoquestions
How does this fare in cultures where there are no second chances, like many
places in the US?

My gut says this is a scam.

~~~
owlninja
What exactly are you referring to?

~~~
twoquestions
Going to college after the appointed time, that is right after high school.

If someone does so and makes it work, that's wonderful, but at least around
here I can't see a business owner tolerating someone with age but not
experience, especially with legions of twentysomethings beating down the doors
begging for a job before the rent savings run out.

~~~
chrisseaton
> I can't see a business owner tolerating someone with age but not experience

But why would they care if two people have the same experience but one is
older? What difference does it make that they wouldn't tolerate?

~~~
twoquestions
From what I've read here on HN (and other places), even _with_ experience,
ageist bigotry is a significant impact on people's careers, I can only imagine
it's worse sans experience.

~~~
jm__87
So in my own experience, older colleagues can usually bring two things to the
table regardless of relevant work experience: maturity and responsibility.
This isn't always true (I've definitely had some older colleagues who are
exceptions to this rule), but I think probably your average 40 something is
more mature and more responsible than your average 20 something. More
importantly, if someone went and did this degree in their 40s, I know they are
doing it because they really want to follow the career path that the degree
leads to, not because they chose this academic program at random at the age of
17 or 18 because they weren't sure what they wanted to do.

