
Ask HN: Best EU country to incorporate a startup? - tsaprailis
I was wondering what EU (or non-EU but an EU citizen can legally use) country offers the easiest  way to start and manage an online company is.
I know that Estonia with their e-residency program has reportedly made it very easy to do that, has anyone had experience with it?
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digitalwaveride
Teleport might be helpful for your research
[https://teleport.org](https://teleport.org)

Comparing costs of living, salary levels, life-quality data including stuff
like business freedom, corruption, startup scene etc.

There is a specific tool
[https://teleport.org/runway](https://teleport.org/runway) that let's you
compare costs for running a tech team compared to 250 cities worldwide.

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seikatsu
Re: e-residency, [https://www.leapin.eu](https://www.leapin.eu) are guys
building a convenience overlay on top of the government provided services

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tsaprailis
This looks nice, thanks.

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paulmatthijs
Don't know anything about other EU countries than the Netherlands, but it's
pretty easy over here. Just a matter of some paperwork by a notary, which will
cost <1K.

There's a big caveat though: 5%+ shareholders are considered managing
directors (a "DGA": Director/Majority Shareholder), and as such should receive
a minimum salary of 48K EUR per year. There's a special startup exempt on the
way that lowers this to minimum wages for some years.

Bottom line: if you want to incorporate in NL, as a founder you're ought to
receive a salary and pay taxes accordingly.

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ojm
Really? This seems insane.

So if two people want to start a business, they will need to fund their
company with at least 2x €48k?

Seems that it'd be hard to start a business.

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paulmatthijs
It's an inheritence of the famously low profit taxes. To make sure owners
don't circumvent (the higher) income taxes by maximizing profit they have a
compulsory salary or a management fee. This ensures they pay their part of the
welfare system. They cannot pay themselves less than other personnel, and not
below 48K.

It's a nuisance for incorporated startups for sure, but there's a catch: if
you can show you can't afford it, you don't have to pay up. Problem is that
you need a ruling for it, which you can request after incorporating. A classic
Catch 22.

Otoh, to put 48K in perspective: if you work 32 hours a week the 48K comes
down as well to the level of about 2K/m net income. If you're in Amsterdam you
can count on 1+K just for housing so you'll need that kind of income anyway.
Of course you don't really work just 32 hours, but your contract can state it
without issues. 32-36 hours is considered fulltime in the Netherlands.

The system is designed on liability: when incorporated, you cannot not be held
liable as a person, only the incorporation can. This has a cost, so to say.
The Dutch systems assumes that if you need that kind of "protection", you have
a proven business and revenue to pay for the "luxury".

If you choose the non-incorporated business types (a EMZ or VOF), you are
personally liable and you get a LOT of tax rewards for it. I've been a
successful freelancer for 15+ years before becoming a founder, and haven't
paid more than 20K in taxes in all those years combined. You get so much tax
benefits that it doesn't make sense to incorporate before you take home a
profit of about 120K/y. With a median income <30K, that is a lot of tax to pay
up for accountability.

But, if you want to go with investors incorporating is the way to go. You
can't just incorporate in Estonia and have your company in Amsterdam. You'll
be taxed like a Dutch company.

Long story short: NL is awesome for startups, just don't incorporate before
you have investors or serious profits.

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atmosx
Bulgaria is a very good solution. Bulgaria has a standard 10% tax on profits,
plus 5% if/when you pay dividends.

There are at least 2 accounting firms that I found through freshbooks with
which you can work remotely and they are fluent in English. I didn't work with
them, but exchange a few emails, their rate is about 1.200 EUR/year for up to
20-25 invoices per month AFAIK.

You'll have to pay yourself insurance which is extremely low, I don't know the
exact figure but it's a non-issue.

Banks... Banks have higher fees than any Bulgarian country but at the same
time they are way more loose. You can open an account with your passport. I
did the mistake to go with Raiffeisenbank which gives only Electron Visas to
foreigners. Should you choose a bank in BG, go with Unicredit. They'll give
you a proper visa (the electron is for children, many websites do not accept
the electron VISA).

It's very common for companies in Bulgaria to use a lawyer's address as their
official address for paperwork. That's extremely cheap too.

The thing with Bulgaria is that the financial setup is rather stable. Their
tax rates doesn't go up and down like an elevator. Banks are considerably
easier to deal with compared to Estonia for non-Estonians for example.

If you want more info drop a mail, good luck!

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bryanrasmussen
Well, ease of incorporation might be one thing but what about countries that
provide governmental funding programs etc. That might change the calculation.

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tsaprailis
Well, to be honest I'm mostly interested in being able to manage the company
online as much as possible.

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arisAlexis
Estonia ainec. With 1k and one day you get a company running with an
accountant and zero tax under 15k profit.

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wprapido
ireland, UK and estonia

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T-A
Strike UK if you plan to be around more than a couple of years. :(

