
Is Flattr the new Facebook Like, but this time with real money? - klous
http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/07/06/is-flattr-the-new-facebook-like-but-this-time-with-real-money/
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gojomo
Love this concept. Over time they can play with other nudges to get people to
sign-up: requiring a Flattr account to skip an interstitial ad, for example
(even if you don't ultimately choose to give a share to the content), or even
(for some premium/early-access content) requiring a Flattr click.

This is the direction I thought now-defunct Contenture should have taken.
Previous discussion links: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1117012>

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swolchok
What's going to be hard is preventing users from devaluing their Flattr clicks
to get past Flattr-based paywalls. Simplest version: I have a personal array
of strawman sites, which I click on a lot in order to funnel almost all of my
Flattr fee back to myself. Then my Flattr clicks are near-worthless to non-me
recipients. This can be extended by Flattring friends, Flattr kickbacks, etc.

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gojomo
Two points:

(1) You and your circle can't get more out than you pay in, or convince other
people to give you freely

(2) Who cares about those who would go through so much trouble to save a few
bucks? The point is to make it easy for those who want to pay, with subtle
encouragements to pay. If the easiest thing is paying, enough people will --
and your network of strawman sites is a fringe rounding error.

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eob
In order to submit content to be "Flattred", you have to become a paying
member of the site -- a clever hook to pull in tippers at the same time
they're pulling in content authors.

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Groxx
An understandable requirement, though. It costs them money to pay out, so it's
in their best interests to keep as much in-system as possible.

And it should be pointed out that while there's a 2-euro/month minimum out-
going payments, that money can come from people sending _you_ money. If they
get critical mass, that shouldn't be hard to achieve.

Personally, I want more precise controls over who gets what proportion of my
money. Or multi-flattring, or something. Not all flattrable-content is of
equal quality.

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zck
>Personally, I want more precise controls over who gets what proportion of my
money. Or multi-flattring, or something. Not all flattrable-content is of
equal quality.

Interesting. I was about to find a quote to prove you wrong, but you're right!
You can only Flattr a thing once per month (<http://flattr.com/support/faq>,
the "Why can I click the same flattr button again all of a sudden?" question)!
That seems like a needless restriction. Allowing you to multi-Flattr a site
would make a ton of sense.

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Groxx
I suspect part of the reason for not allowing uneven flattring is because
they're really pushing a level-playing-field thing. It'd be pretty easy to
handle multiple clicks, but they don't, so I _strongly_ suspect it's a
fundamental design decision.

I'm of a mixed mind on if I _truly_ want them to change, or if it's something
I accept as a positive aspect of the system. As a geek, I _deeply_ desire
control over what my money does. As a human-studier, I recognize at least some
of the benefits of not having that control (enforced simplicity being a big
one, as this _must_ reach critical mass to succeed where quite a few have
failed).

edit: oh, and a correction to my other post: it does not in fact cost them for
you to withdraw money. It's still a useful thing for bringing more people into
the mix, and this kind of system only exists if it exceeds critical mass.

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smakz
It's interesting how these guys got so much traction in so little time, even
when in private beta:

[http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=400&h=220&o=f&...](http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=400&h=220&o=f&c=1&y=r&b=ffffff&n=666666&r=2y&u=tipjoy.com&&u=flattr.com&);

While the future of flattr is still TDB - I wonder what the problem with
tipjoy was that they didn't have similar spikes - not enough emphasis on
traction/getting the idea out or not enough iteration on the idea when they
didn't have traction?

Just goes to show, you need to know who your customers are and how to reach
them effectively and efficiently - and in the end that's the harder thing
compared to building a great service.

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jasonlotito
> It's interesting how these guys got so much traction in so little time, even
> when in private beta:

FTA: In fact it’s the brainchild of a group of people formerly associated with
The [infamous] Pirate Bay, including Peter Sunde Kolmisoppi.

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eob
It is nice to see the Pirate Bay people experimenting with models that enable
profit generation but still give people free content.

~~~
benologist
They've been experimenting for years to find a way to build something lasting
off TPB's audience, usually it's been turnkey scripts - pastebin, image
hosting, blog hosting etc.

I think this concept is interesting but I don't think it's going to work (for
them) - if you put $5 in your account and at the end of the month it's split
between a couple dozen sites then each is getting pennies for sending their
audiences off to give Tippr whole dollars.

If anyone can make this work it'll be Facebook with their credits system I
think.

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akadruid
The perfect pyramid scheme - require all the marks to pay to get paid, and
promise them other mugs will keep paying in.

Of course no-one outside the pyramid will pay (we've proved paywalls always
fail and donate buttons won't pay for their pixels), and the lot will collapse
when the marks realise they've lost their audience for a few cents.

Not as evil as those "pay to bid" auction scams, but it has promise.

~~~
prawn
My thinking for this Tipjoy/Flattr-style of sites allowed the host to set a
value per page view and then display a widget per user that encouraged a
donation where suggested value was justified as value * page views. More of a
nag than a pay wall so people wouldn't just see a default "Donate $20" button.
"You've viewed 26 articles on this site in the last week - a voluntary
donation of $5.20 will help us continue providing this service and get you
other benefits. Donate now or find out why we suggest $5.20. Or explain why
you can't pay, if you'd like."

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endlessvoid94
This is obviously inspired by the pirate bay, especially since that's who one
of the founders is. how do we reward people for giving away stuff for free?

this may be the solution. I'm definitely interested.

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imrehg
Read the Terms of Service? <http://flattr.com/terms> Most troubling for me:

"By using this Service you agree not to: 11) to create or modify a competitor
product or service;"

That's a pretty sweeping noncompete... I mean, did they ever have PayPal
account and not being influenced by it? (I don't know how similar the actual
working, didn't register yet)

Also agree not: "to advertise to, or solicit, any user to buy or sell any
products or services." They say it is for example bloggers. So if I review my
new smartphone and tell the world it is the best thing since sliced bread and
everyone should have one - is it a ToS violation?

I'm conflicted. Like the idea a lot, but don't like the ToS much... :/

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ugh
It seems to be really taking off in Germany, probably after a talk at the
re:publica conference in Berlin by Peter Sunde [1]

Nearly all German blogs I’m reading now have a flattr button (and nearly
everything that can be flattred is in German which could be a problem for
international adaption. Or not.)

[1] [http://re-publica.de/10/event-list/flattr-social-micro-
donat...](http://re-publica.de/10/event-list/flattr-social-micro-donations/)

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farnsworth
I love the idea and I actually have a beta account that they sent me a few
months ago, but it looks like everything on the site is in German, hm.

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phreeza
Brilliant idea, hope this takes off. And doesn't get ripped off by facebook.

The logo is a bit confusing to me, though. When I first saw the button on a
blog I thought I could downvote posts, which would be absurd(if it means i
post a negative amount of money)

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bonaldi
My Knight News challenge entry last year was essentially this. I think it's a
great idea: abstracting away the actual cash and making more concretely about
rewards for creators.

