
APA Review Confirms Link Between Playing Violent Video Games and Aggression - antouank
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2015/08/violent-video-games.aspx
======
vezzy-fnord
From the report:

    
    
       The link between violent video game exposure and aggressive
       behavior is one of the most studied and best established.
       Of the 31 studies reviewed, 14 investigated the relation
       between violent video game use and aggressive behaviors.
       Aggressive behavior measures included experimental proxy
       paradigms, such as the administration of hot sauce or
       a noise blast to a confederate, self-report questionnaires,
       peer nomination and teacher rating of aggressiveness.
    

If this is indeed the case, then there is cause for concern with these
techniques, especially depending on the age group. [1] We further see self-
reports mentioned as evidence for later factors, so as a whole I'm not sure
what to think of this.

Moreover, the actually interesting question (does this aggressive behavior
lead to real-world violence) is openly admitted to be unanswered. I'd wager
that to a large extent basic measurements of "aggression" will be positive
simply due to the player being engrossed by the game in question. The methods
listed above in general are hardly that rigorous.

Furthermore:

    
    
       The research has also not adequately included samples
       representative of the current population demographics,
       nor has it sufficiently examined the potential differences
       in effects when participant samples have been diverse;
       no conclusions about differences in effects related to
       ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or culture can be
       drawn from the currently available research.
    

[1]
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812902/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812902/)

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donohoe
Call this confirmation bias or anecdotal evidence. I can relate to this study.

I only play a few video games. The most recent that I play is "ShadowGun -
DeadZone" on my iPad. Its a MM first persons shooter centered around networked
games of CTF or DeathMatch options. I love it. It helps me unwind and keeps me
alert. Its damn fun.

However I can't play it when my kids are around. Kids are kids. However my
tolerance for normal kid stuff (mistakes, arguments, things dropped,
repetition of noises) drops significant after playing. I'm more short
tempered. I'm more combative when I should be conciliatory. I've noticed it
and I don't like myself afterwards. Its not helping me to be a good father.

I'm not singling out the game. Its me, so I've elected to delete it. I can re-
install after bedtime or when I travel or never.

~~~
kohanz
Anecdotal counterpoint. I believe your aggressiveness is due to the
competitiveness, not the "violent" content of the game.

The video games I play are generally shooters (e.g. Halo series) or sports
games (e.g. FIFA). I'm not a violent or aggressive person and video games have
almost never made me upset. However, I tend to play mostly offline, either by
myself or couch co-op with friends.

This past year, I started playing FIFA (soccer) online, against others. It's a
rush because it's competitive, but for a while (during the learning curve) I
was embarrassed and shocked by how much it affected my mood. After a bad
session of FIFA, I was angry, short-tempered, aggressive and it easily bled
into my actual life. I recognized this negative behavior and was able to stamp
it out (which shouldn't be an accomplishment for a 30-something adult).

My point being, the trigger for me was not the content of the game (shooting
vs. sports), but playing in an ultra-competitive environment against others,
where winning comes at all costs (even unsportsmanlike tactics).

I imagine that if I went out to play a competitive soccer match (which I do
play) and lost a tight game to an obnoxious opponent, I would also come home
with higher than normal anger and aggressiveness - that is what competition
can do to you, chemically.

~~~
knodi123
> Anecdotal counterpoint. I believe your aggressiveness is due to the
> competitiveness, not the "violent" content of the game.

Abso-freakin'-lutely. I participate in a religious debate forum online, and
when I find myself sucked into a conversation with a recalcitrant jerk who is
actively trying to deceive people with slimy rhetorical tricks, I get _so
angry_. And after I've had my say, I still find myself getting snippy with my
wife and generally having a short temper.

I'd love to see the APA recommend against debating religion online. That would
really help me improve my life and the relationships inside my family. Either
that, or I show some self-discipline and simply stop participating. ;-)

~~~
kelukelugames
I recommend against debating religion online. That sounds like a hobby for
jerks. Do you enjoy being angry?

~~~
knodi123
I recommend against calling people names because you don't like the nature of
the conversations they have in their spare time.

I assure you, that kind of childish insult is even beneath the standards of
the forum you apparently disdain so much.

------
dahart
How do these findings stack against the fact that violent crimes in the U.S.
Have been trending downward for decades, while violent game and media sales
have been trending upwards? (And parental awareness and involvement have been
trending upwards as well...)

[https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-
the-u.s/2012/...](https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-
the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/violent-crime)

[http://videogames.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=00...](http://videogames.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=003627)

~~~
Ensorceled
Violent crime rates are affected by literally hundreds of factors. There can
be dozens of factors pushing the rate down and few dozen less pushing the rate
up with the end result being we have an overall reduction.

~~~
dahart
Yes! You're right. This is true.

So... if the trend is down, and somehow games are a force for increase in
tendencies, then something else is pushing down even faster than games are
pushing it up. What might that be?

And what evidence do we have that games are pushing it up at all?

~~~
Ensorceled
This study? That's my point, an overall trend in a statistic with multiple
confounding variables says nothing at all about any specific variable. The
study is either correct or flawed. The overall crime rate is NOT evidence
against nor for the study.

~~~
dahart
Yeah, you're right. Sorry I'm not being clear & maybe sounding argumentative
too. I'm really responding not to the study itself, and not to the direct
conclusions they make, but to the suggestions and implications they leave
open.

The study says one thing, but the presentation says something else, and it is
implying that this is a stepping stone to showing that violent games do affect
the crime rate, and "negative outcomes" in general for children who play
violent video games.

I'm responding to this speculation. You're right that the overall crime rate
doesn't say anything about this study, but it does say something about the
implication they're trying to make in this press release, and the future work
and courses of action they suggest in this study's conclusions.

~~~
Ensorceled
Ah, got it. Yeah, I hate that section of papers; "I've shown small, isolated
result X. Perhaps this implies large, wildly extraordinarily speculative claim
Y."

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MarcScott
I watched a documentary on this the other night, which seemed to imply that
the aggression was caused by the level of challenge, not by the onscreen
violence. I think this was the study that was cited.

[http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/study-games-link-to-
ag...](http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/study-games-link-to-aggression-
comes-from-challenge-not-violence/)

------
khulat
To get another perspective on this read this article:

[http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/18/apa-studies-
video...](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08/18/apa-studies-video-game-
violence/)

~~~
t2015_08_25
from the link, emphasis mine: "In 2013, _230_ academics and scientists signed
an open letter stating their objection to the claims being made by the APA,
calling them “misleading and alarmist”."

------
akshat_h
A counter point could be that playing violent games would allow people to vent
out their aggression in a safe way so that they don't take it out on us. I am
curious if there is a study that links playing (violent)sports with more
violent tendencies, because the reasoning seems similar. Also it goes without
saying correlation != causation(Just for fun please try
[http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-
correlations](http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations))

~~~
derwildemomo
There's some research that indicates that the "venting anger" theory leads to
the opposite, i.e. more anger, not less.

[1] [http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf](http://www-
personal.umich.edu/~bbushman/PSPB02.pdf) (quick google, there are certainly
better and more up-to-date papers).

~~~
akshat_h
I skimmed through the paper and they used a punching bag for venting out
frustration. I think that and video games are fundamentally different.
Punching bag do not give you a sense of objective fulfillment which video
games do. Also video games generally have group dynamics, even in quite a few
of single player games. But agreeing with you on the broad point, other
research papers do suggest that violent games increase aggression. Although
another interesting link([http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/08/violent-
video-games...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/08/violent-video-
games_n_5112981.html) :the actual paper is behind a paywall) seems to suggest
that it is not violence but our failure to master the game play that causes
anger.

~~~
derwildemomo
Would be interesting to figure out whether the different methods "used for
venting out" anger make any difference. I do agree that playing a game is
different from punching a bag though, takes more intellectual skills and such,
yet I for one remain convinced that the problem persists – whether it's
punching a bag or hunting bots.

------
ryandvm
I can certainly believe there's a link. It seems intuitive that a violent
individual would be attracted to violent games. But to go from noticing a link
to suggesting more stringent parental controls isn't particularly well thought
out.

Owning a Porsche has been linked to improved cancer outcomes, let's give
luxury sedans to people battling cancer...

~~~
t2015_08_25
> It seems intuitive that a violent individual would be attracted to violent
> games.

The aggressive people I encounter outside the bars in my town seem to be
sports fans and weightlifters, not video game players.

------
kriro
"""[...] but insufficient evidence exists about whether the link extends to
criminal violence or delinquency [...]"""

------
appleflaxen
Keep in mind: the APA is also the professional psychological organization that
signed-off on torture, and gave it a veneer of medical legitimacy.

[http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/07/te...](http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/07/terror-
torture-and-psychology)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/report-says-american-
ps...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/report-says-american-
psychological-association-collaborated-on-torture-justification.html)

~~~
tankenmate
In fact there was a minor scandal that senior members of the APA in fact
backed CIA rendition / "enhanced interrogation" methods... Hippocratic Oath
not withstanding.

~~~
iofj
APA (the one from the linked article) - American Psychological Association -
no hippocratic oath - www.apa.org

APA - American Psychiatric Association - hippocratic oath - www.psychiatry.org

According to [1] it was the first of these that it was the psychological
association that did this. So a Hippocratic oath violation would not seem to a
valid criticism of these guys.

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/report-says-american-
ps...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/us/report-says-american-
psychological-association-collaborated-on-torture-justification.html)

~~~
mfoy_
Wow, I didn't even know there were two APAs... Well, I guess this is why
trademark protection is a thing.

------
MatekCopatek
There's also a confirmed link (in western societies) between being poor and
being overweight. Though I'm pretty certain we all realise not having money
does not cause your body to accumulate fat. Correlation != causation [0].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation)

~~~
hawleyal
In that case, higher stress, lesser-quality food, limited means to exercise
for pleasure, et al. related to being poorer do contribute directly to
physical health and being overweight.

------
eyko
I feel like something is missing. Aggressive/violent people might have a
preference and tendency for violent games (seems obvious, but I don't want to
jump to conclusions) over, for example, puzzle, casual sports, adventure, or
any other non-violent games.

I grew up on all sorts of violent games and violent anime, and I'd never hurt
a fly. I don't even enjoy them that much, but I still enjoy them and play
them.

You'll also find various types of players (profiles?) when playing. If you
ever see me on the top 3 in the scoreboard, it's probably because I've
captured flags rather than because of my Kill/Death ratio. I guess our
existing personalities become part of the way we play the game, and not the
other way round.

Sounds like a load of rubbish.

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dahart
Spend an hour at any little league soccer game anywhere, and you'll find most
parents there shouting and imploring their children to "be more aggressive"
the entire game.

I haven't read the full report yet, but this summary on the one hand takes
care to separate the research conclusions between "aggressive" behavior and
"violent" or "criminal" behavior, even though it doesn't specify what
"aggressive behavior" means, and then seems to turn around and intentionally
conflate the two for speculation purposes at every turn.

------
belorn
Since this task Force is about violent media, it would be very interesting to
see how film or music change people. Through out the 80s and 90s we had a
bunch of studies linking movie violence to increase aggression, violence in
kids, and criminal behavior. Music has also seem to been claimed as an risk
factor for delinquency behavior in the last 100 years or so, and before that I
assume it was books and poetry.

There does look to be a pattern here, so should we just wait a 20-100 years
until games will be proven innocent and the next thing can be blamed?

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talmand
I've been playing video games long enough now that I've seen this as a major
claim three times now throughout my life. I'm willing to bet this will fade
away the same as the previous two times. I'm close to being convinced this is
just a scam to take advantage of an easy target to make money.

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prodmerc
Eh, I don't know about violence, but I'm pretty sure games teach people to:

Secure a weapon - and use it if necessary for the following:

Secure shelter;

Secure food and water;

Secure transportation;

 _When in a bad situation_. I don't know if it's a bad thing or a good thing.

We've been taught to stick together and help each other in hard times, video
games kinda teach us the opposite - fight for yourself/your team and the use
of force is acceptable.

Maybe it ingrains itself in our subconsciousness.

Then again, I laugh at how people in The Walking Dead break up in groups that
treat each other with extreme suspicion or hostility; surely Americans aren't
crazy and would all work together if something bad happened?

------
MrBunny
I think its all about competition and the level of challenge a game has that
makes people more aggressive. However I think the aggression fades very
quickly.

I play a lot of games. Two games right now fight for my attention HOTS and Mad
Max. I actually had to take a break from HOTS this weekend because I had
gotten into argument with a friend over a stupid play. So I switched to Mad
Max and kind of washed away my anger. Mad Max is not a very frustrating game
has just enough challenge for me to stay interested.

With that all said in most cases just breaking from the activity after several
minutes I will be back to normal.

------
Zikes
APA Review Confirms Link Between Watching Scary Movies and Fear

APA Review Confirms Link Between Relaxing on the Beach and Serenity

APA Review Confirms Link Between Reading Nihilistic Poetry and Ennui

Entertainment media are specifically designed to elicit an emotional response.
Books, movies, games, music, if they didn't make you feel _something_ then why
would you buy it?

If we dislike being afraid so much, why would we seek out a game like Amnesia:
The Dark Descent or a movie like Saw? Could it be because despite the
emotional response, we're still rational actors with a firm grip on the
separation of fantasy and reality?

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thrillgore
I definitely wouldn't be surprised if there's a link. My immediate concern is
whether or not this APA study will give more bait to legislators. It is an
election year after all.

------
crikli
Give me a break. "Link" should be a huge warning flag that weasel words, non
sequiturs, and good 'ol conflations of causation/correlation are ahead.

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dbroockman
None of these studies are randomized trials. All we've learned is that
aggressive kids prefer violent video games to non-violent ones. It's useless.

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tremon
While they're at it, could they research the link between playing pinball
games and aggression too?

~~~
cpncrunch
I don't remember ever playing any violent pinball games.

~~~
eep_opp
I think I understand what he's talking about. I do remember seeing people
becoming aggressive while playing games like pong, dig dug and pinball.

Come to think of it I've seen the same kind of aggression in other play as
well(Basketball, Tennis, etc).

I have to wonder if the aggression that is mentioned isn't due to violence in
those games and due more to frustration?

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GFK_of_xmaspast
Lots of video game players coming out of the woodwork in this thread with low-
content reckons.

------
forrestthewoods
Someone should a study to test the link between aggression and assembling IKEA
furniture.

~~~
travoc
I think they made a movie about a violent guy who liked IKEA furniture.

------
NDizzle
I don't know about you guys, but I don't play violent video games because I'm
a violent person. I don't even think specifically about the violence.

I think that one of the important outlets of video games is letting you do or
experience things that you wouldn't experience in real life.

Even if that means driving a car up the sidewalk at a fancy outdoor mall and
running over scores of people.

------
ksk
Before we accept this as gospel, can we confirm a link between psychology and
science?

------
fouadf
I really, really doubt it. Take me for example. Mortal Kombat Fatalities were
my past time activity, now I feel a bit guilty if I eat beef.

~~~
bitJericho
Your empathy would be a little more plausible if you did not rip the heart out
of the live cow before you ate it.

------
grambrose
Is this reproducible?

------
jaunkst
What about the link of being aggressive, and playing violent video games?

------
u23KDd23
The APA is a joke.

~~~
tripletmass
On the other hand, if they ship policy with -every review- as just now, and
can get rid of the bit where resolutions endorse (getting s'mo data and
intervening it where we pay them to get it intervened,) I won't be tempted to
shred them to pieces. I mean, put them in a theraputic chilled bath without
depth inhibitions, and with appropriately sized workstones. From newsrelease:
'The picture from the survey is more complex than usually covered in news...'
faint praise. Mark Appelbaum! I'm callin' you out!

