
Mat Dan: 'I became an accidental celebrity 6,000 miles from home' - amaccuish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49466721
======
propter_hoc
See also the case of "Da Shan"
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashan),
who is supposedly the most famous Canadian in the world by dint of his mega-
celebrity status in China.

He wrote an amazing Quora note a while ago on his position:
[https://www.quora.com/Why-do-so-many-Chinese-learners-
seem-t...](https://www.quora.com/Why-do-so-many-Chinese-learners-seem-to-hate-
Dashan-Mark-Rowswell)

Well worth reading in its entirety.

~~~
zaat
The level of self criticism, self awareness and frankness is inspiring.

------
mogadsheu
A couple of personal anecdotes:

When I took a VC internship in the Philippines during the summer, one of the
big pop stars was an American Filipino. We had a convo at the bar he
owned—turns out he was a SoCal boy like me, and got tired of going to school
at Devry, so he moved to the motherland and got famous.

When I visited Norway for the first time, I saw a girl whose presence really
floored me. As she was leaving the club, I followed her out. Turns out she was
a pop star as well, and liked me for my American-ness.

I think with the right presence, it’s not as hard as one might think if you’re
from an OECD country.

~~~
sdiq
And, do could you also have anything to do with a city in the Horn of Africa?
Your username kind of sounds that.

~~~
mogadsheu
It’s an old nickname! Given to me by a very clever friend

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mark_l_watson
Nice story! A good read to start off Monday morning.

Off topic, but one of the really beautiful things about this planet we live in
is the diverse cultures.

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kamfc
It's fascinating to see a white or black person make it big in an Asian
country; in the startup sense, does this mean their ethnic and skin color
became their USP and advantage? The same thing I've seen happen when a black
or white person show up in talk shows in S. Korea, Japan, and China. Oh, let's
not forget Jonny Olsen
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNm7k2PUGzI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNm7k2PUGzI)
=)

The saying goes, you're only limited by your thinking 〰️ think big!

~~~
tokai
A kind of generalized Asian version of 'big in Japan'.

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telesilla
Learning the local's language is THE way to become in good favour of those who
live there. When I'm travelling for more than a few days I learn "hello" and
"Sorry, I don't speak x language" which usually gets a smile and I can then
politely ask if they speak english. I used to learn enough to read a menu but
these days I get lazy with Google translate (which is incredible, when you use
it in real-life. Hands down, digital translation is one of my favourite
technologies)

~~~
nerdponx
It's also in my opinion basic courtesy. You are a guest in their country, at
least try to learn how to say hello and thank you.

~~~
karl_schlagenfu
I disagree, English is fast becoming (already is?) the global language. It
makes sense to standardise on English instead of learning hundreds of
different languages (which is no easy task).

~~~
Infinitesimus
English is woefully inadequate to capture cultural nuances of a lot of places
in this blue-green spinny ball though

I grew up multi lingual before moving to the US and there are still several
things that i have to say "well, there's no word for that in English but it's
kind of xyz". There are so many ideas, thoughts and feelings that cannot be
captured with the English language presently.

Of course every language has that issue across borders so I'm not convinced
standardizing in english as a global language will bring enough benefit to be
worth the cost

~~~
celticninja
I think that's unfair, just because there is no direct or succinct translation
doesn't mean the same thought cannot be expressed, it's just that it needs to
be more verbose perhaps.

It is also incredibly open to new ideas and words, best put by James Nicoll
>The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English
is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on
occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

------
alephnan
> A lot of people say they know hundreds of foreign workers who come over here
> and speak Malay in two or three months and they don't turn into a celebrity

Can you really speak a language sufficiently well in 3 months, especially when
you are there to work on something potentially unrelated to language ?

~~~
jamesrcole
My mother's family are from Malaysia (from the Terengganu mention in the
article) and I've been told by a couple of people there that Malay is a pretty
easy language to pick up and that foreigners can learn it pretty quickly.

~~~
klingonopera
Yes, Bahasa can be learned very, very quickly, it uses the Latin alphabet,
words are written how they are spoken and vice-versa, verbs are never
conjugated nor do they have tenses and the grammar is simple (e.g. plurals are
created by simply doubling the words, like rumah, house, becomes rumah-rumah,
houses, which in written form is abbreviated to rumah²).

My father used to joke you can learn Bahasa in three weeks, English in three
months, and German in three years.

I've no clue about the Terengganu dialect, though.

It's my third language, and I've never needed it professionally, so I whatever
I've said may not be 100% accurate...

Source: Am half Malay, lived there for nine years, around the KL area.

~~~
rudilee
People called any malay or Indonesian language "bahasa" really bother me,
bahasa means language, so if you tell people "i speak in bahasa", literally
translated to "i speak in language", sounds really weird to me

~~~
klingonopera
I've often heard locals refer it to nothing more than "Bahasa", but yes,
correctly you'd have to say "Bahasa Malaysia" or "Bahasa Indonesia", which can
get umbrellad to "Bahasa Melayu", but that then sometimes offends the
Indonesians, so I'm sticking to "Bahasa". My previous comment is valid for
both.

Since we're nitpicking: People call _ing_ any Malay or Indonesian language
"Bahasa" really bother _s_ me, Bahasa means language, so if you tell people "I
speak Bahasa", literally translated to "I speak language", _it /that_ sounds
really weird to me. (Personally, I find that beautiful. If nothing else is
specified, it "defaults" to itself, how awesome is that?)

------
wprapido
There's Dustin Luke from the States in Argentina, too. Obviously, the cultural
difference is much lower

------
ptah
This is awesome! I can't wait for the movie

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tamizhar
From the article.

"'What's the difference between Mat Dan and a Bangladeshi worker who can speak
Malay?'"

Mat is white whereas Bangladeshi people are black. Malay people worship white
skin and thus they even give money to beg-packing white people who exploit
this to travel South East Asia for free.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEGFARCfQUU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEGFARCfQUU)
In fact, Mat himself was one of those. "Rather than just spending his time
travelling with Western backpackers".

~~~
coldtea
> _Mat is white whereas Bangladeshi people are black. Malay people worship
> white skin and thus they even give money to beg-packing white people who
> exploit this to travel South East Asia for free._

It's much simpler: Bangladeshi workers speaking Malay are a dime a dozen.
Westerners learning a minority language in Malaysia are relatively few and far
between. Millions of whites visit Malaysia as tourists but they don't become
celebrities.

It's also not about "worshipping white skin", but about being amused and/or
feeling validated by the western internet.

Finally, the protest against western backpackers asking from money (a recent
fad protest in some countries) is irrelevant to this particular story.

~~~
tamizhar
> the protest against western backpackers asking from money (a recent fad
> protest in some countries) is irrelevant to this particular story.

There's a term for that, it is called beg-packing. It is not irrelevant as it
has been suggested in the comments that Mat was originally a beg packer. The
article itself states that he was a back packer travelling South East Asia.
[http://www.popularyoutube.com/video/HYkgwRJvc2s/Dear-
White-B...](http://www.popularyoutube.com/video/HYkgwRJvc2s/Dear-White-Beg-
packers/)

> It's also not about "worshipping white skin", but about being amused and/or
> feeling validated by the western internet.

Thank you for clarifying. I'm using the term worshipping perhaps to
oversimplify "feeling validated when a white person gives attention/time". And
yes, it is about skin color, as a Western black person who is fluent in Malay
would not get any attention.

~~~
coldtea
> _There 's a term for that, it is called beg-packing. It is not irrelevant as
> it has been suggested in the comments that Mat was originally a beg packer._

I mean not relevant as in "there are tons of beg packers and hardly any raise
to any fame with local populations".

I've been in Malaysia several times and in the general area. It's not like
there's any work shipping of whites, much less white beg packers, going on,
waiting for someone to speak the language to ignite...

>* Thank you for clarifying. I'm using the term worshipping perhaps to
oversimplify "feeling validated when a white person gives attention/time".*

Well, that I agree could play part. Tho that's the same often happens in white
places, e.g. in my Eastern / Southern European land, western validation is
often celebrated -- so I wouldn't say it's tied to skin color.

------
haunter
Funny how cultural appropriation works sometimes

~~~
devnonymous
That word you used, I don't think you know what it means.

Appropriation is when you take something (often by deceit, lies or force) and
(this is the important part) call it your own.

Had he for instance learned Terenggaun food, clothing, habits, or any part of
the culture, returned to the UK and announced all of it as something he came
up with, that would be cultural appropriation.

OTOH, what he has done -- given himself up to it ("I'm more Malay than
English.") would be described, as why-oh-why points out, cultural integration.

~~~
simonh
Cultural appropriation really doesn't mean claiming you came up with
something. It's a fairly broad term but a recurring issue is when a cultural
element is used in ways incompatible with or insulting to it's original
meaning. So for example a head dress or garment meant to signify ritual purity
becoming a common thing to wear while getting drunk at frat parties.

