
Why do entrepreneurs engage in self-sabotage? - lkrubner
http://www.smashcompany.com/business/why-do-entrepreneurs-engage-in-self-sabotage?ref=4au7
======
lkrubner
The HN comment by “throwaway20180315” is dead and now invisible, though we
should consider that personal stories like this reveal an important truth
about the way that startups self destruct.

The most common euphemism about failed startups is that they suffered “team
dysfunction“. That is a bloodless phrase. What does team dysfunction actually
look like? Are we talking about two founders having a polite disagreement or
are we talking about two people screaming at each other, people who hate each
other?

In some sense, it is a public service to discuss this honestly. People have
emotions and emotions are messy. Therefore, startups are often messy.

It’s possible that startup culture would be stronger and healthier if we
discussed this more honestly.

~~~
lkrubner
throw20180315 , regarding your most recent "dead" comment, is there any chance
your account has been flagged? I don't see a problem with the 2 comments that
you wrote here in this thread, yet they are both "dead".

~~~
dredmorbius
That can happen with new accounts, and may be corrected by mods. New accounts
to subvert bans also tends to be frowned on.

Source: I view "showdead" and email mods periodically on both misbehaviour and
suspected bad flags. Reasons are frequently given, some flags reversed.

------
staticautomatic
Entrepreneurs engage in self-sabotage because they are people, and people
engage in self-sabotage.

~~~
throw20180315
Agreed. Co-founder with majority shareholding is into 3rd year of divorce
proceedings after starting an affair with a client. His personality and
behavior has been cited as the reason for every single one of our employees
that has left the company. Recently had a breakdown and might stand-down. Good
times.

~~~
tytytytytytytyt
How many employees have left?

------
scientician
I have a story:

My cofounder was more Salesy than me, so he did most of the relationship
management with our clients and gatekeepers. To grease these relationships, he
was always ... I tried typing a few euphemisms for "LYING" there.
Overpromising, for sure.

This worked really well because it was SALES LYING, and I was in the back
working my ass off the make those sales lies come true. I delivered, no one
was the wiser. I'm proud of the work I did. Things were going well, people
were impressed, we were gaining customers, and new lines of business.

Then he decided that if he could lie to others, he could lie to me. Lie after
lie after lie until I didn't even know if the company numbers were true. They
weren't, as our wiser readers probably already guessed.

I made the mistake of accepting this behaviour in the name of success. HUGE
mistake.

Eventually I was forced to confront him when his lies created serious safety
issues for our clients. He blew up and became extremely angry, and our
relationship ended that day.

~~~
matte_black
What happened next??

~~~
scientician
I took two years off to recover from the burnout.

Our market was/is (I need a better word than corrupt) such that business
couldn't continue without his relationship massaging. I tried to talk to the
gatekeepers, but they wouldn't even acknowledge me. I suspect he instructed
them, I'll never know.

He tried to hire minimum wage contractors to replace me, and he found out the
business couldn't work without actual expertise. This surprised him and pissed
off the clients he was trying to keep - he promised the best and delivered
incompetence.

We have not spoken since.

\---

As for me... I'm not founding any more for-profit companies any time soon.
Instead, I have found 'my place' at [Sudbury Model
Schools]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_school](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_school))
and plan to make my life about advancing human rights for students. Our
countries need leadership, and our industrial schooling model is not capable
of producing it. For our liberal democracies, this is an _existential threat_.

A note on Sudbury Schools: the ideas that seem so natural to them in that
environment are actually radical and difficult to grasp for most people who
went through traditional schooling. It is not fast or easy to understand, it
takes while to 'click'. If you take the time to understand what they're doing,
you'll be rewarded.

To that end, I would recommend one of the original founders' latest book, a
retrospective of the decades the schools have been in operation: [A Place to
Grow]([http://bookstore.sudburyvalley.org/product/place-
grow](http://bookstore.sudburyvalley.org/product/place-grow)) (If you click to
'Sample Chapter', you'll be able to read a significant fraction of the book
for free.)

:)

------
rsp1984
_Without open mindedness about the type of success you may encounter, your
startup is doomed. And without humility about the limits of your knowledge,
your startup is doomed._

I agree with most of the article, but gosh, why do people always have to make
these kinds of absolutist negative statements? Frankly I find such a tone
quite condescending.

------
akanet
I thought this was a great piece, and I too wish that more founders recorded
themselves to watch later. I've definitely wanted to shake more than a few
prospective founders and say "DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF?"

Some commenters here have suggested that founders self-destruct because to
self-destruct is to be human. I think that's glib - founders seem to self-
destruct more frequently than the norm, probably because founders are crazy
people. That's not all bad, I think you have to be a bit crazy to want to
change something significant about human behavior, but I think it's important
to acknowledge one's own motivations.

~~~
verylittlemeat
They probably know they're acting crazy and don't care because they believe
that's part of the ethos of being a founder, to be outrageous and
misunderstood.

I'm sure for many of them being despised or criticized is just as much a
benchmark of success as anything else.

It's sort of similar to the "there's no such thing as bad press" but more
personality based.

------
goatherders
Self sabotage is a defense mechanism against actual failure. "We failed
because the founders didn't get along" is easier to stomach then "We failed
because I'm not good enough to do this well."

------
double0jimb0
Why do investors engage in psychological power games (like this)?

That piece of writing left me feeling icky. I hope the people he has advised
have found more positive and less demeaning investors.

~~~
lkrubner
Do you think the subject is worthwhile? How would you talk about this? Do you
feel there is any advantage to talking about the way entrepreneurs sometimes
undermine themselves? How should mistakes be discussed?

------
z3t4
Watching yourself on video is always interesting. I do not however believe in
rehearsals, unless it's training, not rehearsal. Getting better at talking is
good, but being good at talking is actually more about listening, you have to
adapt to the person you are talking to. Nothing is more annoying then a "on
track" sales pitch. Then send them a video instead. Unless it's some kind of
live performance.

------
divbit
Camel / needle verse?

~~~
lkrubner
While it is true that startup founders tend to come from upper middle class or
wealthy backgrounds, not all of them do.

~~~
divbit
Can you explain your comment to me, because I don't get it?

~~~
lkrubner
From the Bible:

" _I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of
heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples
heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all
things are possible.”_ "

\--- Matthew 19:23-26

I assume you were saying that startup founders are wealthy, so they have
problems?

~~~
divbit
Ah, well the reply was stated somewhat jokingly, but something along the lines
of: if you are investing in a lot other peoples ideas / projects, it sort of
implies you are not stingy (sp?) with money / afraid to take a risk with your
money (or something like that)... (this assumes that it is an 'honest'
investment).

