
Estimate how many slaves work for you based on your possessions and lifestyle. - SandB0x
http://slaveryfootprint.org/
======
zeteo
Let's have a closer look at the "complex algorithm that determines the minimum
number of slaves [...] used to produce each product" [1]. The basic data is
supposedly taken from five official reports, but only one of these (the one
they call "DOL" [2]) has anything direct to do with production of goods by
forced labor.

Examining this report, it provides nothing more than a list of countries and
goods for which forced labor plays a "significant" part, where significant is
defined as anything but "an isolated incident of child labor or forced labor"
([2] p.7). There is no quantitative data in this list, which means that, for
instance, if you own a T-shirt made of Argentinian cotton, there's no telling
whether the probability this cotton was handled by a child laborer is 90% or
0.1%.

Thus it is impossible to estimate any number of "slaves" from such data, and
the methodology is complete and utter BS.

[1] <http://slaveryfootprint.org/about/#methodology>

[2] <http://www.dol.gov/ilab/programs/ocft/pdf/2010TVPRA.pdf>

------
marvin
A lot of the moral judgements made on the linked site about a materialistic
lifestyle don't really have anything to do with the fact that people in the
west are evil, but rather that the culture in certain parts of the world where
manufacturing takes place is conductive to exploitation.

For instance, if I buy a diamond ring, I am not responsible for lives taken
with weapons that have been bought with diamonds. If I drink Coca-Cola, I am
not responsible for some obscure branch of the Coca-Cola Company which seizes
the drinking water source of an entire village. If I pay for sex in Norway,
that doesn't mean I am responsible for children being forced to sell their
bodies in sex trafficing. Except in a few narrow cases where law enforcement
gets involved, I never even see these children.

In each of these instances, there are real wrongs commited - but the wrongs
are perpetrated by people who are a lot more unscrupulous than me. It is a
fallacy to claim that the end user of products of industries where bad things
sometimes happen, does something wrong. Everyone has a moral responsibility,
but this responsibility doesn't carry over all the way.

Does anyone really think that the Indian microfinance debt collectors who
force children into prostitution will suddenly become upstanding citizens if
"microfinance" companies are banned? These problems need to be addressed at
the source. Moral judgements like the ones implied in this app are a huge
fallacy. Things will not get better if demand for strictly unnecessary goods
and services suddenly disappears.

~~~
yelsgib
If you lived next to a diamond mine, you probably wouldn't buy diamond rings.
I say this because I assume you are a compassionate/empathetic person to some
degree, and I think it would be very difficult for you to separate out your
feelings towards the terrible conditions/bloodshed involved in diamond mining
and the shining ring that you just bought from the smiling slave-driver. The
only reason that you could ever be comfortable buying such a ring is that you
are far removed from the suffering involved in your purchase.

There are two complicating factors here: visibility and paucity of influence.
You can't see the bad thing happening and you, individually, don't have the
power to stop it.

The interaction between visibility and morality is a complicated one, but the
fact is that if people in the most affluent nations boycotted diamonds then
diamond mining would cease. If people boycotted Coca-Cola and Fiji spring
water then villagers would get their water back.

The fact that you can't control these situations also complicates things. You
can stop buying Coca Cola but, unless everyone else does to, CC is just going
to just keep on stealing resources.

I think that the thing I really dislike about your comment is that you have
the audacity to condemn the wrongs committed, but lack the integrity to
acknowledge that you play, at least, some very small part in those wrong
things happening. Because you do. If you don't buy that diamond ring then that
is real $$$ that the diamond miners don't get. The hole created by your
boycott has a non-zero probability of shutting down a diamond mine. The fact
is that you don't care. I'm not saying you should - I'm just saying you don't.
And the people doing these "wrong" things don't care either. Perhaps you could
say that you would do differently in their situation, but my guess is that you
are REALLY not in their situation and you have no idea what their situation is
AT ALL.

I get it. You're in a comfortable position. There's no reason for you to
change. You probably don't care enough about people in China, etc. that you're
actually going to significantly, or even insignificantly, change your day to
help them out. In fact, it's not even clear that you can. This may sound like
a criticism, but I really don't care what you do.

The main element missing from your comment is the answer to "what to do?" My
guess is that your answer is "Nothing. There are bad people elsewhere, and I'm
not to blame, so I do nothing. Let them figure it out." I guess I hope this
isn't actually your answer and that you realize that it's a lot more
complicated. These people are "unscrupulous" not because they're full of
demons, but because globalization exerts pressure and men sacrifice their
better intentions when faced with that pressure.

~~~
nightski
It's pretty obvious that if you stop drinking CC, no one else will stop
because you did. Meaning the events are conditionally independent. In my
opinion, rallying large groups of people is the only way to make a difference.
So really day to day choices you make on what to purchase have no effect on
the system.

I would argue that the only real way to change is attempting to effect group
think. Individual purchase decisions will not do this. Only organized efforts
will. Meaning everyone is just as responsible for not doing this, whether they
buy the product or not.

Again, if slavery is going on, whether you buy the product involved or not, we
are all equally guilty for allowing it to continue. Buying the product is
irrelevent.

~~~
AznHisoka
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but my view is that I was not asked to
be born under these circumstances (over population, unequality of wealth,
unfairness, etc). I never was in charge of dictating the type of world I
wanted to live in. Therefore, why do I have the burden to do something about
unfairness in this world? It's like saying to a developer "Go fix this bug
RIGHT NOW!", and then when he/she asks for commit permissions, you reply back
"Sorry, you need to sign this form, and give it to HR, then send an email to
the DBAs, and wait a couple of days.. but still FIX IT NOW!"

~~~
yelsgib
This way of thinking doesn't make sense. No one is claiming that you're
responsible as in you need to fix this. We're claiming that you're responsible
in the sense that you're part of the cause (or, in the language of Nagarjuna
the "dominant condition"
-<http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/307/nagarlec.htm>) of the exploitation of
people in third world countries. There are many other conditions besides you,
of course.

The most important goal is to deeply realize your position and relation to
other people - how you act after you realize this is up to you/your emotional
makeup/your virtues/etc.

My claim is that because of the complicating factors (visibility and
ineffectiveness) inherent in this situation you aren't able to fully
understand this relationship.

~~~
AznHisoka
Of course I understnd my position relative to others, I think about it
constantly. People naturally are competitors in this world. One person having
a mate means one less mate for you, and less evolutionary success.

------
Dove
I was curious what they recommended behind the "take action" tab, but it
required a signup. Here's what's on the other sign of the registerwall:

    
    
        Make Progress. Get the App.
    
        You earn Free World points for spreading the news 
        and encouraging brands to audit their supply chains.
        Down the app and use it for check-ins, sending 
        pre-written notes to companies, and sharing your 
        progress with your community. You can also earn Free 
        World points right here.
    
    
        To get Free World points:
    
        - Easily send notes to companies, asking them 
          to examine their supply chains.
    
        - Make a donation to support the fight against 
          slavery in the supply chain.
    
        - Raise awareness about slavery by sharing this 
          survey, your footprint, and your progress.
    
        - Download and use the mobile app to check in while 
          shopping to share your concerns about the use of 
          slavery in the products you buy.
    
        - Use the Made In A Free World mobile app for more 
          opportunities to earn Free World points.
    
    

So . . . it's a game. I must admit, I find that a bit cold. Compare the
approach to something like <http://mercyhousecoffee.org>

------
cbr
They describe their calculations:

<http://slaveryfootprint.org/about/#methodology>

They appear to count "N slaves working for you" if they predict N slaves were
involved in the production of anything you have, not the number you keep
continuously employed.

~~~
yummyfajitas
This methodology is questionable.

Suppose 10 slaves work on an assembly line for a year and produce 100,000
soccer balls used by 100,000 people. In that case, these 100,000 people each
have 10 slaves working for them.

On the other hand, suppose you had 100 slaves handcrafting 100,000 soccer
balls. In that case, each of these 100,000 people has only 1 slave working for
them.

This methodology seems to penalize inefficient manufacturing processes less
than more efficient ones, even if the more efficient ones result in less
slavery.

------
RockyMcNuts
Crappy job <> slave.

Yeah, anything nice we have or use is thanks to people with crappy jobs... but
there are people lining up out the door for those jobs, as they offer a better
life than subsistence farming or scavenging garbage and living in a favela.
And the places where those jobs don't exist are even worse off.

Not to excuse the creation of inhuman living and working conditions. But
better to work for appropriate conditions, than broad-brush everyone a
slaveowner.

~~~
DanBC
Debt Bondage is real. People are not lining up out the door to replace people
in debt-bondage slavery.

([http://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/lang--
en/inde...](http://www.ilo.org/global/topics/forced-labour/lang--
en/index.htm))

~~~
RockyMcNuts
fair enough.

I don't want to minimize the issue, but there is room for some realistic
perspective, somewhere between indifference and equating consumers with
slaveowners.

The link says there are at least 12.3m forced laborers.

If every American had 10 'slaves' that would be 3.1b slaves.

This was a pretty eye-opening story about an unfortunate Chinese deliveryman a
few months ago

[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/nyregion/22victim.html?pag...](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/nyregion/22victim.html?pagewanted=all)

------
rokhayakebe
If we are buying products which were made, or have parts that were made, by
people in terrible conditions, what would happen if we stopped buying those?
Does it mean the people who use to make $1/day are now making $0/day which
will lead to a harder life filled with crimes?

Note: This is an honest question. I also come from a place where skilled-
workers make around $4 or $5/day. I think in many cases, $4/day is better than
0.

~~~
yelsgib
The people who make $1/day stop making $1/day. There is crisis. The crisis is
caused by the cessation of a domination-based dependence relationship. The
crisis could cause government collapse and mass-death. Out of the ashes will
arise a (necessarily) more self-sufficient community.

The fact is that globalization fixes countries as "slave countries." It's very
easy to control people by giving them a locally beneficial option. Which
sounds better to you:

Make $1/day working 16 hours per day - spend the rest of your time
sleeping/taking care of yourself/family.

Making $0/day refusing to work - spend your day working on building up your
community in creative ways, but suffer much higher probability of
personal/family death.

The option that 99.9% of people will take is #1. However, real change can't
occur if everyone takes #1, so we have stasis.

~~~
DuncanIdaho
That worked really well for Somalia, innit?

I mean, look at all the creative endeavours the good people of Somalia
ventured upon release from the hands of the Evil Government and Lobbies.

You are a perfect example of a person that would pave his road to hell with
good intentions. All due to failure to see humans as we really are, and our
time and again honoured tradition of refusing to do what "should" be done.

~~~
yelsgib
I don't know what you're referring to w/r/t Somalia. Fill me in on your
version of the events.

------
Omnipresent
Really neat interface but this is prime example of going overboard with UI.
I'm sure more people would actually finish step 11 if everything was within
one or two pages with fewer clicks. On a side note, I have 42 slaves!

------
catherinej
The survey app takes an interesting approach to raising people's awareness of
slave-labor conditions, but it doesn't make sense (or only makes sense for a
particular demographic) to base calculations on how many items of a particular
kind the survey-taker currently owns.

It matters just as much how often the items are replaced (once a year? once
every 20 years? once in a lifetime?) and whether they're acquired new or used.
In a materially rich society it's possible to buy almost all goods except
food, medicine, and energy in the second-hand market. And, with a few tools,
the life of many consumer goods can be greatly prolonged.

Some of the most politically and socially conscious (and most slave-labor
averse) people I know are low-income old people who remember the Great
Depression, live with packed closets, and spend their days repairing hand-me-
downs and broken machines. They aren't, obviously, the target market of the
slaveryfootprint app, but some of their consumption strategies might mentioned
in future versions. There might be future questions along the lines of, "How
many broken computers have your repaired in the past five years?" Or, "How
many worn and outmoded garments have you mended and re-sewn into something
more stylish?"

------
JoachimSchipper
There are real methodological issues here. Even so, I'd prefer reducing the
number of people forced into slavery. Does anyone have suggestions on how to
do this most efficiently?

Some numbers:

\- consume less: my consumption seems to require about one "slave" (in the
site's sense) per EUR 1000/USD 1500. (Being a fairly frugal vegetarian may
help here. Or not.)

\- Fair Trade: <http://www.slavefreechocolate.org/> suggests that 100g of
cocoa (say one good bar of chocolate) requires about one child-slave-day;

\- no diamonds: this is surprisingly hard to pin down. Searching the internet
suggests that the cost in lives lost in wars is much greater than the cost in
lives lost in slavery.

------
jay_kyburz
When I clicked on this link I thought it was going to be about the wage slaves
that work for me down at the local mall.

Day in and day out they shuffle into their meaningless jobs, selling shoes or
flipping burgers. 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 40 years. They rack up a
life time of debt in the first few years of adulthood and struggle to stay on
top of it for the rest of their lives.

I'd much rather live within my means and enjoy life instead. I want to build
interesting stuff, fun games, follow my dreams...

------
S_A_P
Maybe I am oversimplifying here, but I'm sure that a detailed audit of most
companies could find behavior that some group would find unconscionable. I
think that one could literally end up exhausting themselves by finding and
actively avoiding these companies. I also think that if someone has no qualms
breaking the law/exploiting people to make money, that cutting off one revenue
stream would not stop the behavior of that person, they would move along to
the next scam.

------
fbomb
After taking the test (69 slaves), I thought I would try to see if I could
minimize & maximize the results. So as a 1-year old naked infant in Bangalore
with absolutely nothing to her name, I had 14 slaves. As a 40-year old
homeowner in NYC with 16 children, a large house and tons of stuff, I had 151
slaves.

------
marcf
The questions really profile you pretty deeply -- City, Gender, Age, Children,
consumer preferences.

Is that the point of the website?

------
tamersalama
Great design; Does anyone know if that was from scratch, or if there's a
visual/back-end framework behind it?

~~~
darraghenright
looks like they're using backbone.js as a framework. also, raphaël which I
haven't heard of before; it's a vector graphics library apparently. so, I
think the answer to your questions are yes, and yes :)

very nice work from them btw.

------
peterwwillis
Where are these supposed sex slaves of mine and why haven't I met them for
their annual performance review?

------
sgt
Apparently I have 60 slaves working for me. Anyone beat my "high score"?

~~~
tintin
Well the interface is very bad so I gave up after 8/11...

~~~
artmageddon
I have 34. I agree that it can use a lot of work. Some of the numbers didn't
make sense. I don't get how I'm supposed to rank my shrimp consumption, for
instance, on a scale of 0 to infinity...?

~~~
ktsmith
Some of the side bars give guidance and some don't. The food one says at the
top rank them from 0-5 with 0 being never consume and 5 consume constantly or
something like that. The bigger problem is on that sidebar you can go past 5.
On the other side bars there's no guidance and the counters go up so what does
the number even mean.

Apparently I contribute to lots of slavery (60) because I have lots of ball
point pens and electronics.... doesn't make a ton of sense.

------
zwieback
Very cool website and a good message.

Main takeaway for me: either "everyone" is a liar or only saintly people took
the survey.

~~~
potatolicious
I'm slightly below average without lying - this may be a problem with
demographics. I'm a bachelor with scarcely anything beyond the basics in the
bathrooms, and a very limited wardrobe. Almost all of my slave score comes
from electronics.

This would change dramatically if you're calculating for multiple people in a
household, or you're just not a barebones bachelor like me.

------
thyrsus
I know, completely irrelevant, but coltran is not a supercondctor.

------
dwhitney
32 Slaves. Now what?

~~~
jsnk
Learn to exploit. I have 94 slaves.

------
johng
My score is 76.

------
kwamenum86
Comes off as a marketing trojan horse...

------
vijayr
very interesting interface, even though it is slow and sluggish at times.

------
maeon3
The site wont load on an Android browser. Take off the "if statement" that
says dont run on small screens.

