
Uber Data and Leaked Docs Provide a Look at How Much Uber Drivers Make - coloneltcb
https://www.buzzfeed.com/carolineodonovan/internal-uber-driver-pay-numbers?utm_term=.lepAPYXbLB#.oyXg84QPbD
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tuna-piano
I don't see how you can criticize Uber for low wages. Uber is a marketplace of
buyers and sellers of rides. If Uber raised prices, more people would want to
drive and less people would want to ride - leaving drivers sitting around
doing nothing. And of course, as a market, Uber does pay drivers more
(2x,3x...even 9x their normal wage!) at certain times. To consistently
increase an Uber drivers income, you have to either reduce the supply of
drivers or increase the demand of riders.

This would be like criticizing ebay for the low price of used products.

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gshulegaard
In general I am all for Uber and think that they are providing an interesting
and creative service.

That said, I don't really believe the argument that they are a marketplace.

First, they don't allow either participant (rider or driver) to set prices.
eBay has a bidding system where sellers can set price floors and buyers bid
with each other. Uber abstracts the price away and sets it based on...well we
don't _really_ know what they set it based on since their Surge Pricing
"Algorithm" is closed source. Which plays into my second problem...

Uber wants to classify drivers as contractors, which ties in nicely with their
marketplace argument, but ultimately _they_ set the price and standardize it
across their service. I think Uber is the only company which can call their
drivers "independent contractors" and then turn around and tell these
contractors what they can "independently" charge. To forward the eBay parallel
you drew, it would be like eBay telling a seller that, sure, you can sell your
used Macbook Pro, but you have to set your price floor at $XXXX amount. This
whole conundrum is magnified by the fact that neither driver or passenger even
knows what the final price will be...so they can't accept or deny rides based
on cost considerations...further taking away their purported "market" choice.

Ultimately, I still generally support Uber, but (IMO) they are a service, not
a marketplace.

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prostoalex
Don't taxi companies qualify their drivers as independent contractors, while
the rates are set by someone else (sometimes not even the taxi company, but
some municipality)?

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gshulegaard
You know I am not well informed on the finer details of the traditional taxi
business...but a couple of things:

* Taxi companies don't portray themselves as "marketplaces" for regulatory purposes.

* Taxi rates are publicly displayed and known prior to rider entering service agreement with cabbie.

* If you are correct, then rates aren't sent by cab companies but a regulatory, unlike Uber who sets the pricing dynamically.

Although I want to reaffirm that I am generally a supporter of Uber and
similar ride services, I just don't see them as marketplaces.

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gersh
It may not be profitable to a full-time Uber driver, but I think Uber can be a
good part-time job. You can driver whenever you want, so you can work when no
other work is available.

Further, I've heard you can deduct car-related from your Uber earnings. If you
have a car already and can do this successfully, your Uber income is
effectively tax-free until the IRS cracks down.

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cwilkes
I love the bit about Uber not knowing how to calculate driver costs. One of
the most data driven companies in the world can't figure out how to create a
lookup table of gas prices, mileage, and car deprecation?

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gbrayut
I believe they are also 1099 contract workers as opposed to having W2 employee
classification. 1099 means you owe self employment taxes, which can take a
significant cut out of your gross earnings (ball park 10-15%). You also may
have to make quarterly estimated tax payments or you can get a penalty fee
when you file in April.

Looks like [https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2561815-uber-driver-
questi...](https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2561815-uber-driver-questions)
shows some of the tax issues related to being an Uber driver.

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cheald
> 1099 means you owe self employment taxes, which can take a significant cut
> out of your gross earnings (ball park 10-15%).

It's an additional 7.65% over what a W-2 employee pays directly. You pay both
employer and employee halves of payroll taxes. But payroll taxes are generally
believed to be fully incident on wages anyhow, regardless of how you file them
([http://www.nber.org/papers/w5053](http://www.nber.org/papers/w5053)
[http://www.nber.org/papers/w9537](http://www.nber.org/papers/w9537)), and you
get additional deductions that W-2 employees don't, which may end up working
in your favor. The bigger variable is the value and cost of employer-paid
nonwage compensation, primarily health insurance and retirement plan
contributions.

