

Ask HN: How much, on average, do freelancers make? - qzxt

I'm thinking about getting into the freelance gig. I have 2 years Python/Django experience and am pretty good with front-end stuff.<p>I'm just wondering what it's like for the average freelancer. Do you take up more than one project at a go? How much do you usually get paid for one project? What about overall?<p><i></i> I also asked a question earlier on about doing contract/remote work as an American, overseas. If anyone has any experience with this, please let me know<p>Thank you!
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hashtree
There may be an average for your particular niche, however I believe it varies
drastically on the whole. Largely depending on the work you do, experience,
and your contacts. Also, I believe the rate you charge gets you completely
different clients. Charging $50 an hour? You will get people who don't pay,
don't know what they are doing, and are hard to work with. Don't change
anything except your rate (e.g. $150 an hour) and you will see completely
different clients.

I personally work only off retainer at a rate of ~2k per day. I think for my
line of work this is on the lower end. Retainer must be paid upfront. I have
fewer, but longer lasting clients and projects. I am VERY good to them. I
believe I approach the freelancing game different than most and it nets a lot
of referrals. I often turn down work and I am a stickler on who/what I work
on.

NOTE: 90% of the time I work for myself solo and 10% of the time I freelance,
mostly out of the desire to get new perspectives and work with others.

~~~
jwwest
Someone coming in cold to freelancing will spend time building up to this
level.

They may need to take $50/hr jobs for a few months to build up a portfolio and
references, and gradually raise your rates. Good, reputable clients will stick
with who they know before hiring someone from the 'outside'. After that,
referrals from their current contractors, then friends at other companies.
You'll be working at this tertiary level for a while when you start. It sucks,
but you just have to put in your time.

As a general rule of thumb, I also do not recommend taking gigs with
individuals. The line can be blurry, but generally 'guy with an app idea' is
not anyone you want to work with.

~~~
tagabek
For a freelancer that is just starting out, would you recommend getting payed
hourly, on a project-as-a-whole basis, or some other method?

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hashtree
Another method you might consider is milestone based payment. You have a
project-as-a-whole cost but have set milestones and when they are met you get
paid. This is nice for both parties at the beginning of a relationship to
"test the waters". If they flake out on you, you aren't out as much time. They
also have less risk.

You can get creative with how it is broken up as well. I've taken the approach
before of having the first few milestones be less expensive to get a foothold
and get them "hooked" on my skills. At the same time, I am evaluating them on
communication, requirements, and how we work together.

FYI: Retainer based pay is usually a hard sell to make but once they do it,
they love it. I have yet to have a client not want to do it after we have
started down the path. However, I have had several potentials deny me
outright. Since I do freelancing part time this is okay by me. I really favor
long term/large clients. The hustle of getting clients is annoying to me. I'd
rather give a decent discount (e.g. 35k vs 60k) for a client who knows they
will use a whole month of my time (all I do per year). When I did the cost
analysis, it was about even. However, I'd rather be coding than marketing
another client.

~~~
timjahn
I second the milestones idea. I used to do this back when I was freelance web
developing and it helps the client feel more comfortable knowing they're
paying as they see progress. (Helps you a ton too cuz you get money as you go
along).

This was one of the major features of my new startup matchist
(<http://matchist.com/talent>). You create milestones for your client and they
prefund each milestone before you start working on it. Once you're done, we
release the payment to you.

Works great for both parties.

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orangethirty
I don't consider myself to be the average freelancer. Due to my marketing
skills. Still, I will talk about the specifics you asked about.

1\. I do take more than one project at a time. Usually one big (more than a
month's work), and one small ( less than a month's work). I have no problem
meeting deadlines.

2\. Depends, and is negotiable. I will say that my rates a a hair under
average for California. I do this because I work remotely and avoid flying in
(but will do it if I have to).

3\. I am an American doing remote work from the Caribbean.

The biggest issue freelancers have is that most don't know how to properly
market themselves. They tend to think that an ad on HN will be enough to bring
in high six figures (it won't). You have to have a good marketing system going
on for you. After many requests from other freelancers, I'm about to offer
such a system. But its has not launched yet. If you want to know more, just
send me an email. The system is built around getting good leads from different
boards, email marketing, and content marketing. It took me to almost broke, to
, well, a very, very nice place in about 7 months. Anyhow, just email me.
Others, keep posted for the launch.

~~~
jyu
Do you freelance as a programmer, or as a marketer? It's not clear from your
post.

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orangethirty
I freelance as a programmer. Used to take a limited amount of clients for
marketing consultations, but not anymore. Too busy with my own startups.

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mwmnj
qzxt,

I've been thinking about getting my feet wet with freelancing lately. Like
you, I have 2 years Python/Django experience and am pretty good with front-end
stuff. If you want to discuss partnering up, shoot me a message. (email is on
user page)

~~~
rozap
While freelancing is perhaps more work than the standard 9-5, it sounds like
it can be more rewarding. I'm in the same realm as you, django+front end work,
but it seems like a big step to take to move completely to freelancing. If you
have something in mind you are welcome to send me a note.

