
Show HN: I'm 14, please check out my iOS game - nshen
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id551440345?mt=8
======
kyro
Hey man, nice job! As someone (a 25yr old) who picked up programming within
the last year or so, I'm pretty jealous that you got such an early start! How
long did this take you to build?

Also, it seems like you're going to be building lots of things, so here's a
tip: don't pay attention to most of the negative things people say here; they
can't stand to see someone as young as you being more productive than them.

Looking forward to see what you do next!

~~~
statictype
Thanks for posting something like this. I clicked the link cynically expecting
the top post to be someone whining about the poster feeling the need to
mention his age.

~~~
tope
Yeah me too but was gladly disappointed

------
tedchs
Congratulations on not only getting into programming, but having the tenacity
to finish and ship an actual product. I also started programming at your age
and I am glad I had such a head start. My advice would be keep learning all
you can about professional software development and all the related fields
(networking, system administration, database admin, etc), and prepare yourself
for the future opportunities that will likely be coming your way.

~~~
nshen
I really appreciate your advice. Thank you so much.

------
n9com
Seriously, give the kid a break.

Let's be honest here. If he didn't write in the title that he was 14, this
post would not have made front page. The kid was smart enough to include it in
the title, probably knowing that a few HN users here will moan about it, but
it was worth the risk and got the post some attention. Kudos.

Keep developing apps and good luck!

~~~
ruswick
I loathe when people _lead_ with their ages because

1) It mitigates potentially valuable criticism, replacing it with a chorus of
"good jobs," etc., when the app (like all apps) is going to have flaws.

2) It seems manipulatory and superfluous.

In the case of the former, it just doesn't make sense to resort to such
condescension because of his age. If he is capable of developing and now
marketing an app, is is capable of getting honest feedback for said app. This
homogenous array of kudos is doing him a disservice.

In the case of the latter, most will say that his age is significant because
it is inordinately low. Because of this, he should be lauded for any effort he
puts forth. But there is no logical basis for this. 14-year-olds face similar
constraints as 18-year-olds, who probably face a similarly-difficult learning
curve as 30-year-olds. Just because a number is low does not mean it has
meaning. He has not overcome any substancial barriers that anyone else of any
other age does not face while learning the trade. Yet, people give his age
meaning. If he had not listed his age, he would have probably gotten serious
critiques, or not have made it to the front page at all. In development, age
is more-or-less arbitrary. Just because he happened to begin learning earlier
does not mean he disserves more praise than someone who began in college.

He obviously recognizes this and has used it to his advantage. I can't blame
him, but I can be irked by it and by people's response to it.

I've always been of the belief that a product should be evaluated independent
of it's creator. The specific position of the individual doesn't change the
quality of the product. Knowledge of the creator of a product can only muddy
one's opinion of said product. This is why I don't give take into account when
developers decry that I ought to "support" them because they are
"independent." I don't care about their employment situation. The only thing
that is of importance to me is the quality of their app. If it is good and the
price seems fair, I will buy it. If it does not meet those criterion, I won't.
The same thing holds true for the developer in the OP. If the app is good, it
ought to be recognized as such. The issue is that I don't believe that it is,
and that its quality has been subjected to artificial inflation because of
unrelated fact about the developer.

I'm not saying the app is not good. I just think people need to be more honest
and less subject to "age bias."

(For the record, I am of a similar age and always refrain from giving my age.
As a result, my work is rarely lauded, likely because my things, much the same
as the OP's, aren't that great. I'm just aware of that fact and don't really
care about lowering the bar.)

~~~
rohanpai
For the record, why would you post
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4807691> titled "Show HN: I'm 16, and I
made a thing" if you are so irked by people using their age on hacker news?

You were either being a troll or you are a hypocrite. Have you actually seen
this app? It's impressive regardless of age. It's gameplay and graphics are
comparable, if not better, to fruit ninja. Being 14 is just a plus, it doesn't
make the app any better or worse. If anything, it's inspiring (as I said
elsewhere in the comments) for people of all ages to make and ship.

Quite frankly, it sounds like you are bitter because someone around the same
age of you is receiving recognition and praise for their work.

>>But there is no logical basis for this. 14-year-olds face similar
constraints as 18-year-olds, who probably face a similarly-difficult learning
curve as 30-year-olds.

I disagree. People 18+, in college, adults, usually have either more
experience (whether than be programming or learning how to learn) or perhaps
some type of formal computer science background.

>> If it is good and the price seems fair, I will buy it.

If you actually clicked the link or tried the game, you would notice that it's
free.

If you really believed in what you are writing, you would have no problem
commenting constructive criticism about the app itself rather than ranting
about posting an age in the title.

For the record, I'm 16 and I'm not making a big deal about the age in the post
or being irked that someone younger than me is receive praise for his work. I
think the game that NShen made is awesome.

~~~
ruswick
1) It's referred to as "satire." It's fairly conspicuous considering that I
left out a description of the actual product, placing emphasis only on the
age. It was an attempt to demonstrate the absurdity of this practice.

2)The app is a fine app. I don't believe that it is comparable to Fruit Ninja,
but still a fine app. Why does this make me either a hypocrite or a troll? How
is the quality of his app pertinent to my actions at all?

3) This is an entirely unfounded ad hominem attack. If you really believe
this, then I give up. I can't argue against people who dismiss me because they
think I'm envious. I think my points are of merit and pertinent to the
conversation. This is supported by the healthy number of up-votes it has. If
you want to dismiss it as "bitterness," I can't stop you and I don't really
care.

4) I'm not comparing ages, I'm comparing stages of learning programming.
Whether he's 14 or 40, he has only recently begun programming. A beginner at
40 will face similar challenges. Learning a new skill is difficult for anyone
of any age. Your logic is either a) circular and incoherent inasmuch as it is
predicated on having prior knowledge about programming when one is first
learning programming, or b) not applicable because it deals with a factor
that, as I've already said in my above post, is irrelevant.

5) The pricing comment did not pertain in any way to his app. It was directed
at the "support independent developers" argument to which I drew parallels
from his practice. I am aware that the app is free. If you actually read my
comment and considered it, you would notice that it's not directed at the kid.

5) What dictates that I can only provide criticism about the app itself? It is
totally within the realm of reason that I critique his marketing practices,
etc. Why does the fact that I criticized his use of the age belie my "belief
in what I'm writing?" Why is this a rant? It was a pretty well-structured
argument touching on what is considered a contentious practice.

6) No, you are making an (unwarranted and incoherent) big deal about the fact
that I did. I think his app is fine. I wouldn't use it, though.

~~~
blader
With such a long response, one would expect there would be something said
about the damning part of his post:

"For the record, why would you post
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4807691> titled "Show HN: I'm 16, and I
made a thing" if you are so irked by people using their age on hacker news?"

vs

"For the record, I am of a similar age and always refrain from giving my age."

------
jiggy2011
How long before we see a blog entitled "How I hacked my way to the HN front
page by pretending to be 14"

~~~
Andrex
HN needs less cynicism, not more.

~~~
moistgorilla
I took it more as an absurd joke... I don't think he was seriously suggesting
that someone would do this.

~~~
dspillett
_> I don't think he was seriously suggesting that someone would do this._

Somebody _will_ do this at some point I'm sure. Such tricks go on everywhere
were user voting affects the position of a post in a given site/area, and
following people using the trick you will get others trying to claim kudos for
having come up with it in the first place.

------
dutchbrit
What?! To all the people asking, why does his age matter, well, it does
matter.

1) Most 14 year olds can't make iOS games. It inspires other youngsters.

2) It's cool to see what someone of that age can achieve. All self taught (I
assume). It shows how far someone can get, without a diploma.

Pay attention to negative comments, where they are constructive. And to people
just being negative, without being constructive, well, that's the internet for
you unfortunately. Keep on going, show all those negative people what you can
achieve/build/do.

What I'm interested in, did you use helpful tools, or did you build this from
scratch in Objective C? I hope you make a nice amount of money with this game,
and the rest that are to come. Keep on building!

------
sspiff
Listen, I don't mean to downplay your achievement. You've done a great thing I
can only envy. You did a great job, seeing a game project through to the end.

But I just wish you wouldn't lead with "I'm X years old", I see these things
all the time on reddit and I'm not overly fond of the practice coming to HN.

------
glazskunrukitis
Focus more on the content not age, ethnics or whatever.

~~~
nshen
Appreciate your advice. I will keep this in mind.

~~~
nonrecursive
I disagree with the parent's comment. It is useful to know your age. In the
real world, I would not usually interact with a 14-year-old in the same way
that I would interact with, for example, a 20-year-old. I think the context
you provide helps others to tailor their feedback.

That being said: nice job! Why do you like creating games?

~~~
Cogito
The OP could have included their age in a comment on the post.

By including their age in the post title they have, inadvertently or not,
'gamed' the system.

If this is right or wrong isn't really the question, but neither the title nor
the top comments have told me anything _about_ the game in question, except
that it was by someone claiming to be 14.

To that end, titles like this I believe add little to the community. I would
much rather see some information about what exactly is being shown, beyond the
age of the author.

Aside from that, well done to the OP for finishing something and getting it
published. That is something many never manage to do.

[edit] typo

~~~
jiaaro
Shipping doesn't get you on the homepage of HN anymore; having a grabbing
title does.

Whether that's good or bad, it's true and nshen succeeded on both fronts.

------
klrr
This is a bit ridiculous to be honest. I'm 15 and don't consider myself a
programming, in fact I would say I can't program at all. But me and a friend
"wrote"(well, we modified a few examples we found online and using a lot of
pre-written code) a few Android apps one or two years ago. It was far away
from this advanced thing as a game, but I don't really think it's a huge thing
just because he's 14. Also, there is tools[1] these days that do most stuff
for you. Using them I would probably been able to ship apps and games back
when I got into these stuff. I don't want to ship products though, well not
anymore, I want to write good code.

[1] <https://www.scirra.com/> <http://andromo.com/>

~~~
rohanpai
Well, it's not the same to publish apps which have drag drop interfaces and
don't involve programming and programming a game with unity (game engine used
by JuggleIt). Just because you could create an app without programming or
using pre-written code doesn't make a game less "good".

Also, what is ridiculous about this?

~~~
klrr
Of course it doesn't make the game less good, but it's not like this kid did
something extremely remarkable thing like some people here seem to make it.
That's what makes it a bit ridiculous.

~~~
yourcontact
The game itself doesn't matter, it's the appreciation that matters; his
persistence, his urge to learn and to create something – that's what matters
most. This kid did something that he should be proud of.

------
so898
What the meaning of title? You are young, so we need to give you more than
other? That is not the thing works. Your game is in one market, and customers
do not care about who you are or how old are you. If you do good job, there
always will be someone brought your game.

~~~
furyofantares
OP is interesting to me because of the author's age, so I am glad it was in
the title. You are correct that most customers on the App Store don't care
about the author's age, but this is Hacker News, not Consumer News, and I find
it interesting to know what young hackers are capable of with the tools and
distribution platforms available to them today.

------
bombita
>Requirements: Compatible with iPhone 3GS

>WARNING: __Juggle It is NOT compatible with any NON-RETINA devices, including
the iPhone 3GS and below.

wtf?

~~~
nshen
Yeah sorry, apple is not a big fan of blocking devices off unless you use
hardware requirements that older devices don't have.

Since, I don't use (for example) a front-facing-camera in my game per se. I
can't block out iPhone3GS users.

~~~
sjmulder
I think the WTF was more about the requirement itself – why would the game
require a retina device?

In any case, congratulations on shipping your game!

~~~
wahnfrieden
Supporting non-retina can be a lot of extra work.

~~~
neilk
Is it just because you have to have different size copies of graphics, and
other such adjustments?

~~~
wahnfrieden
It means all your graphics have to be in dimensions divisible by 2, or you
have to change how you lay things out if not (and do more work to scale odd
dimensions). Even when everything is, graphics can look terrible when you
resize naively, depending. Sometimes you have to recreate graphics manually at
different dimensions to get better antialiasing and things.

~~~
nshen
Damn, you really know your stuff, props.

Anyways now you guys all know why I didn't support non-retina devices :)

------
stickydink
Well done on starting early. I can say from experience that it's a great
boost. I started programming when I was 12, made a few $1000 before I was 15
(in my mind I was a millionaire), then turned to Android games in 2008,
working only on my own side projects.

Then, after graduating with a non-CS/programming degree, I was invited into a
6 figure job, have seen a near 100% salary boost in 18 months, and am given
far more responsibility and freedom than any of my co-workers - who are all
several years older than me.

In summary: Keep going and work only on projects you enjoy, and even if you
don't make it on the App Store yourself, you'll reap the benefits when you
outshine 99% of your graduating year. In todays tech world, there are plenty
of people out there who value the teach-yourself approach, and the years of
experience, over the CS majors.

~~~
nshen
Wow, that's a very inspiring story. I will keep this in mind as I continue to
develop more and more games. :)

~~~
stickydink
Some things that I could have done better would have been to learn some more
basic fundamentals. The sort of (arguably pointless) stuff that they grill you
at some interviews about.

That, and learning the jargon. After years of hacking away at my own things,
there were a number of times where I was conversation with someone, and we
were talking about something - patterns/concepts, and I can tell you
everything I know about it. Except what it's called!

This is all the sort of stuff that you'll pick up in CS, should you opt for
that. But personally, I think having the opportunity to go into another field
and still being able to keep up your programming on the side, can be really
rewarding. Having done that, I'm working alongside CS majors -- but in the
back of my mind, on top of all that I do now, I have years of Master's level
physics creeping around.

So, when you get to the age you start applying to schools, think twice before
just jumping straight to CS if you already know your stuff.

Good luck!

------
dbh937
As a fellow 14 year old with a working product (mine's used internally within
my school, but deployed at daltonplanner.appspot.com), congrats! It's nice
seeing another "kid" around here on HN.

------
jrmg
Did you also make "Save The Cubes"? I've been enjoying that since finding it
in the "other apps by this developer" section. Really imaginative premise,
like the style too.

~~~
nshen
Yup, Save The Cubes was my first, less polished, title. I'm glad you enjoyed
it!

------
doylemc
Seriously well done. It's an achievement regardless of your age. But that you
are 14 just makes me think more highly of this for a variety of reasons. Good
luck!

------
0verc00ked
As someone a decade older than you with a CS degree who has yet to ship a
mobile app, I salute you nshen! Keep doing what you're doing.

As for the game, I have only positive things to say. I think it's very well
done overall. The juggling/swiping works smoothly. The falling items look
great. Love the addition of bombs and power ups. Overall, the simplicity of it
is what stands to me the most. Many of the games that catch on as addictive
time-wasters have simple premises. I think you've found one.

Have you given any thought to a two-player mode? Either cooperative or head-
to-head battle?

My only advice is to listen critically to your feedback, but trust your gut.
Navigating through everything people say can be a challenge. If you haven't
already, I'd read up on the subject. Here's a little article to get your
started: [http://uxmyths.com/post/746610684/myth-21-people-can-tell-
yo...](http://uxmyths.com/post/746610684/myth-21-people-can-tell-you-what-
they-want)

Good luck!

------
vickytnz
As a casual observer (I'm not going to download the game as I have a lot of
deadlines!), I'd suggest taking another look at your copy. I think you'll
inspire more confidence to buy later on if you take it easy on the caps and
paragraph spacing (good ol' Angry Birds is pretty professional
<https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/angry-birds/id343200656?mt=8> as is Mighty
Winds <https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/lostwinds/id477973472?mt=8> ). Of
course, I don't really buy iPhone games so if someone more experienced in the
field tells me I'm completely off I'll instantly concede :)

------
ahardin
Nice work. Couple specific things that came to mind:

\- Love the music (reminds me of Truman Show). It somehow adds to the
weirdness of the game. Would like to hear a little more variety but within
that same style.

\- Cool little feature would be for the sun to set and rise as time progresses
(1 day = 1 minute or something like that). Would add a little visual fluff and
more graphics stuff for you to experiment with.

Again, well done! Keep it up and continue to broaden your technical horizons.

~~~
nshen
Wow, great feedback! I'll be sure to implement this in the next update!

------
mrilhan
The arguments above are more about HN as a community (and how it self-
regulates/self-analyzes, its values) than your achievement. The fact that
you've completed this game is still amazing to us all, that remains unchanged
whether you were 14, 24 or 34. My only hope is that you get to focus from your
age and keep building on your talent. Great job.

------
g0atbutt
Great work nshen! Do you have a site up too, or just the app? Good job finding
a control scheme that works really well on mobile.

~~~
rohanpai
<http://cubegrinder.com/>

------
rdl
Wow, good job. You should write a blog post about why you decided to write an
iOS game, how you learned, etc.

~~~
nshen
I really like that idea! Hopefully I will get to doing this very, very soon.

------
hardik988
Nick - Congrats on finishing a game - that's the biggest hurdle most
developers face. It's great that you have such an awesome headstart. Keep at
it and you should be a pretty good programmer by the time you get into
college.

EDIT: Obviously, not to say you're not good right now.

~~~
nshen
I appreciate your compliments.

------
revdinosaur
This is a great game and it's well-suited for the iPhone format. It took me a
few minutes playing the "Frenzy" mode before I realized I could use both
thumbs (duh). How are you liking Unity compared to Obj-C?

------
OafTobark
How old we're you when you started in development? How? Is this your first?

~~~
nshen
1) I started programming around the age of 11-ish when my mom was laid off.

2) Initially, I learned from <http://www.icodeblog.com> before switching to
Unity.

3) Juggle It is actually my second game.

Thanks for your support.

~~~
onlyup
> when my mom was laid off.

Not sure what the relevance is of this. Was that inspiration for you to try
make some money and support your family?

~~~
nshen
Yup, I was inspired to work and make money because of this.

------
rooster8
Great work. I was pleasantly surprised by how polished it felt. Could you
please speak to how you refined it before releasing it? Were you getting
feedback on it from beta testers?

~~~
nshen
I made sure to test it thoroughly before submitting it to the app store. My
testing group was merely friends + family, but after 5-10 rounds of testing,
most of the bugs were caught.

Hope that helps!

~~~
rooster8
The game feels well refined in terms of engagement. The difficulty builds at a
good pace, and the achievements seem to be spaced out well. The balance you
struck between challenge and reward is remarkable.

I was also fortunate enough to have the opportunity to learn programming at a
young age, but I didn't understand user engagement until I was much older.

Best of luck to you. I'll be subscribing to your blog and following your
ongoing programming adventures! And to reinforce other comments here, I would
be interested in some "making of" posts.

PS- Great music. I love that you invested time in all the details like music
and sound effects.

~~~
nshen
Thanks for the encouragement! I will definitely try to find time to post more
on my blog!

------
nickporter
Great work! I really like the art in this game. Did you create it yourself?
What tools did you use?

~~~
nshen
Yup. I used blender for all of the 3d models.

------
keyboardP
Great work on releasing an app. Keep working on more apps and keep challenging
yourself! :)

------
kken
Congrats on the game!

...when I sold my first software at 11 I did not make a big fuzz about my age,
though.

~~~
nshen
Thank you very much for your kind words. I agree, my title could use some
work. How did you market your first piece of software?

Can you shed some light on your success?

------
J-H
Haven't played yet, but from the screenshots: Great Graphics! Keep up the good
work!

------
tcdowney
Looks cool! What inspired the llama theme?

~~~
nshen
They look funny.

------
rohanpai
Nick, You are awesome.

-Rohan

------
Nux
Stay in school, kid!

~~~
pestaa
There's no better schooling than shipping working code.

------
dakimov
Too old.

------
general_failure
I am 12 and I flagged your post.

~~~
nshen
May I ask why? I actually am 14, and I did make this game. It says such in the
credits page in my game.

Here is proof:<http://cubegrinder.com/hacker-news-post-is-not-spam/>

I just made a post on the official cubegrinder website.

I'm sorry if there has been a misunderstanding.

~~~
logn
I think GP was making a joke, a la "I am 12 and what is this."

------
iuguy
Hmmm... Account created an hour ago. Username unrelated to name of author on
site...

Flagged as spam.

~~~
citricsquid
I think it is the author of the game, they've posted elsewhere before with
"I'm 13 and this is my first game" so it seems plausible they'd do the same
(mention age) here. Not sure what someone would stand to gain from lying about
someone else's game?

~~~
nshen
Hey guys, I am the developer, I just decided to use my real name as my
username.

If you download the game, the in about/credits section It says developed by
Nick Shen (nshen) 14 years old.

Here is more proof: <http://cubegrinder.com/hacker-news-post-is-not-spam/>

This is not spam. And this is my first time on this wonderful site.

~~~
iuguy
It is spam. This is a community site. You've made an account and within the
first hour started promoting yourself without engaging in the community as a
whole. The only reason you posted was to get hits. Ergo, spam.

Looking through your submissions the only submission you've had is for your
game. The only thread you've participated in any discussion in is this one.
You deliberately used your age as linkbait.

Try interacting with the community in a genuine way first before promoting
yourself and I won't accuse you of spamming or being a spammer.

