

5M users in 4 months. How hike plans to win the global messaging space - pathik
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/18/hike/

======
ishansharma
And all this with spamming!

No offence with them but I've been spammed like anything by them. It has
happened with lot of my friends. When they install app, it sends texts to ALL
contacts without permission prompting to install the app!

And this has been #1 reason I did not install it.

~~~
iamshs
What makes it more shady is that they are funded by Bharti Softbank. Bharti
manages Airtel, one of the big telcos in India. So maybe, they want more
people to use Hike and maybe sell over some data to Airtel. Since they are
spamming, their privacy policy needs to be combed over too. Also, the article
looks like a PR piece for SF expansion, and to generate American funds.

~~~
kbmittal
Here's our privacy policy - hike.in/terms. I'd love for you to go through it
line by line. The invites sent when a user launches the app is user initiated.
The UX built wasn't great clearly so we removed it.

On Data and Airtel, can't blame you for thinking that way. Most of the
industry is filled with those kinds. Airtel and BSB are different companies.
No such thing happening.

(Creator @hikeapp)

~~~
iamshs
Thank you for replying. Good to know Airtel and BSB are separate enterprises.
I went through the terms.

"Hike TOS:

hike may receive data whenever You connect with an application or site through
hike (such as during status update, when You connect to other sites and in
which case hike posts to these sites on Your behalf ). This may include date
and time You visit the site, the web address, IP address information, browser
and if You are logged into hike and Your authentication tokens used on such
sites. Your authentication tokens may be saved on the server for the sole
purpose of seamless posting to the same site by You in the future through
hike.

We may share non-personally-identifiable information (such as anonymous user
usage data, referring / exit pages and URLs, platform types, asset views,
number of clicks, etc.) with third-parties to better understand usage patterns
for certain content, services, advertisements, promotions, and/or
functionality related to hike application."

So you store "authentication tokens", and maybe FB and Google+, twitter data
interactions....I think you are aiming for this goldmine, since normally this
data through Airtel's network will be encrypted. Pardon my skeptic viewpoint,
but it looks you are not aiming for directly monetizing this app itself but
are building a satellite platform based upon this app.

~~~
kbmittal
1\. "Authentication Tokens" are stored only with user permission. Why? So we
can seamlessly allow the user who gives us permission to post to FB, Twitter.
Its standard industry practice.

2\. non-personally-identifiable information is something every app collects
and should do so. It helps us understand our how to serve our users better.
With respect to 3rd parties - see 'Kontagent' for example. They're a super
smart data analysis company. Why re-invent the wheel. Again, a standard
industry practice.

Hope that puts your skeptical viewpoints to rest :)

------
tlack
Curious about this line from the article: "128bit encryption over Wi-Fi." Why
only when using wifi? I'm not aware of too much bandwidth overhead involved in
exchanging public keys and using AES in some kind of stream-emulation block
mode.

My cynical side worries this is some kind of concession to the wireless
carriers that want to easedrop on traffic easily. I hope that's not the case!
Anyone know?

~~~
pathik
Oh, there were some genuine technical limitations in implementing it over
carrier networks. I'll check the exact details with the team and get back to
you. (Most of them are sleeping, it's 3AM here in India.)

No ulterior motives. :)

------
orangethirty
Business model: cover the cost (a loss) of sending SMS, and sell advertising
once it is big enough.

~~~
pathik
Not really. We don't believe ads are the best way to monetize. And anyways,
why create a beautiful UX and then plaster ads on it?

We'll start looking at that once we hit a certain critical mass, but in much
smarter ways. Right now, all focus is on growth and engagement.

PS: I'm the growth hacker at hike.

~~~
orangethirty
Growth hacker, eh? Tell me one thing: how do plan to recover the cost of
sending the sms? You cant really call it growth when you are losing money on
every user.

~~~
pathik
Well, to enter and grow so fast in such a competitive space, you've to
differentiate yourself from your competition.

Our differentiators are: 1\. A beautiful UX/design 2\. The ability to message
everyone through hike/SMS

#1 works everywhere and has driven growth for us globally. #2 combined with #1
gives us a compelling proposition for Indian users, the first market we intend
to dominate. It's very powerful for a market like India where more than 80%
mobile users have yet to experience data.

The unit economics in the long term are quite favorable and we expect to have
a positive average LTV across the user base.

It's going to be tough, but we're betting we can do it. Just wait and watch.
;)

~~~
orangethirty
I think we must include where you are growing as a factor of the discussion.
The Indian consumer does not have a very high purchasing power. This means
that the average Indian must focus on covering his/her basic needs, rather
than buy luxury items. Your app falls manages to squeeze in by allowing
Indians to send SMS without incurring into any cost. You are simply buying
your way into their phones in order to get a fair amount of downloads in a
short time. The issue with this tactic is that you can only spend so much.
Time will come for you to stop paying for the SMS. By then, your funds will
not increase. The rate at which you are spending them will only decrease by
_n_ amount. You cannot count on an UI to battle this issue. A pretty UI is
nice, but doesn't matter if your users cannot use your app. I do reason that
you will start advertising in order to level out the financials a bit.
Something that wont really do a lot for you, due to the low purchase power of
the local consumer. On the other hand, this seems like an app built to be
acquihired. Something with which I have no issue. Companies engineered to be
acquihired solve a problem, and are a fair way for another company to simply
buy researched and developed products.

Anyhow, I'm just talking business. I wish your team good luck. I really want
India to move forward in tech. This might help achieve that.

~~~
iamshs
Well let me tell you something: The creator of this app (Kavin Bharti Mittal)
is son of the guy (Sunil Bharti Mittal) running one of the big telco company
(Airtel) in India. I think he sure has something up his sleeve, and this is
why the investment of 7M sounds disingenuous and misleading, given that the VC
company is just another venture of Airtel.

I got interested as to what is their value proposition and why are they doing
it. Then I came upon this information. Here is the nitty gritty.

From their TOS:

We may share non-personally-identifiable information (such as anonymous user
usage data, referring / exit pages and URLs, platform types, asset views,
number of clicks, etc.) with third-parties to better understand usage patterns
for certain content, services, advertisements, promotions, and/or
functionality related to hike application.

hike may receive data whenever You connect with an application or site through
hike (such as during status update, when You connect to other sites and in
which case hike posts to these sites on Your behalf ). This may include date
and time You visit the site, the web address, IP address information, browser
and if You are logged into hike and Your authentication tokens used on such
sites. Your authentication tokens may be saved on the server for the sole
purpose of seamless posting to the same site by You in the future through
hike.

They store the "Authentication tokens"...

~~~
kbmittal
I am Kavin Mittal and you can point all your questions to me.

On Data and Airtel, can't blame you for thinking that way. Most of the
industry is filled with those kinds. Airtel and BSB are different companies.
No such thing happening.

1\. "Authentication Tokens" are stored only with user permission. Why? So we
can seamlessly allow the user who gives us permission to post to FB, Twitter.
Its standard industry practice.

2\. non-personally-identifiable information is something every app collects
and should do so. It helps us understand our how to serve our users better.
With respect to 3rd parties - see 'Kontagent' for example. They're a super
smart data analysis company. Why re-invent the wheel. Again, a standard
industry practice.

Have a skim through any other messaging apps terms and I'm sure you'll see
nothing different.

Anything else?

