
Time Person of the Year 2013 - lemma
http://poy.time.com/2013/12/11/person-of-the-year-pope-francis-the-peoples-pope/
======
r0h1n
For crying out loud! What difference has the Pope made to the world (and do
remember, the world does include non-Christian countries...or roughly 5
billion out of 7 billion people...and I'm not even getting into Catholics vs.
non-Catholics here).

Colour me cynical, but any publication that declares anyone other than Edward
Snowden as the Person of the Year in 2013 has to have some pretty BIG reasons
for doing so. And the Pope's just don't cut it.

~~~
philtar
Sure Snowden opened up a dialog when it comes to privacy etc. and that's a big
deal for us because we live on the internet.

This pope however is so transformational he could seriously do a lot to bring
peace to the world. Potential wise, this guy trumps Snowden on every level.

Take a moment to think about how powerful this guy really is.

P.S I'm muslim.

~~~
skwirl
Exactly. If your life is lived online, especially in the tech community echo
chamber, Snowden is going to mean a lot more to you than he does to most
people.

There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. I attended Catholic church
growing up, and the pope has a lot of influence on Catholics. Many of these
people have portraits of the pope (at the time it was John Paul II) in central
areas of their homes. If you aren't part of that community, maybe it is hard
to see how much of a difference the pope can make, although I think this pope
has been hard to ignore, no matter who you are. When he speaks, hundreds of
millions closely listen. And action happens.

He may not really have changed the church on the topics of contraception and
abortion, but that's also not what he is really out there talking about. The
topic is humility, compassion, and charity. When is the last time these topics
really had a globally influential champion?

~~~
yapcguy
_> The topic is humility, compassion, and charity. When is the last time these
topics really had a globally influential champion?_

Er, since the last pope?!

What makes this pope special from the others?

~~~
andrewcooke
he's significantly more liberal. that is the whole point, really. maybe you
should read the article?

~~~
bowlofpetunias
"significantly more liberal" in this context means he's a slightly less
hateful reactionary bigot.

If the pope ran for election in the average western democracy he would be far
right, next to the neo-nazi's and the anti-immigrant parties.

But because it's the catholic church we even use the word "liberal" to
describe his ideology.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If the pope ran for election in the average western democracy he would be
> far right

The fairly harsh criticism of modern capitalism in _Evangelii Gaudium_ is
hardly consistent with the far right. Certainly, the Church has right-wing
positions on some issues -- which are in many cases the issues Francis has
said the Church tends to excessively focus on and needs to not overemphasize
-- while on others it has fairly left-wing positions.

------
bcks
With their bold investigative reporting and willingness to speak truth to
power, I just can't understand why weekly news magazines are having such a
hard time in the U.S.

------
timje1
Well, this Pope has been remarkably liberal and transformational. He's only
remarkable in the context of the last few popes, who were insanely
conservative. Francis is merely extremely conservative...

~~~
josu
>Well, this Pope has been remarkably liberal and transformational

Has he? I know that he has been saying a lot of stuff, but has he actually
changed anything? I get the feeling that either he is full of shit, or that he
doesn't actually have the power to carry out all the reforms that he says he
will.

~~~
chrisdroukas
>Francis is merely extremely conservative...

I think it was sarcasm.

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revscat
Well, that was certainly the safer choice. Francis is an interesting figure so
far, but he hasn't caused -- yet, anyway -- worldwide changes in the political
dialogue like Snowden has. Time, though, went with a choice that doesn't annoy
the powerful Western democracies.

------
beloch
He shows promise but, like awarding Obama the Nobel peace prize, this is just
too soon.

~~~
huherto
This unlike the nobel price is given for influencing the events of the year,
not so much for being good or great. Even Hitler and Stalin were selected.

------
ernestipark
I'm not saying Snowden or the Pope should or shouldn't be the POTY... but the
narrow mindedness here is pretty silly (yet predictable). Maybe it's hard for
atheist technologists living in the tech bubble to fathom, but the Pope is
unbelievably influential to not just the millions (or even billions) of
Catholics around the world, but even those who are not Catholic/Christian. I'm
not sure whether Pope Francis will/has inspired policy change, moved political
waves, etc, but when one person can _potentially_ inspire perspective change
in billions of people in the way they treat others and view many of the hot
button issues in the world today, that seems worthy enough for POTY candidacy.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I'm not sure whether Pope Francis will/has inspired policy change, moved
> political waves, etc

There's some indications that it may have, if not spurring political change,
at least reduced a barrier to it with some immediate effect [1].

[1] [http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2013/1106/As-
Illinoi...](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2013/1106/As-Illinois-
House-approves-gay-marriage-speaker-cites-Pope-Francis-video)

------
darkxanthos
Did they finally just throw out the poll data and go with whoever they wanted?
I remember originally Snowden was winning by a landslide.

~~~
calvin_c
They always do that. The polls have never been to determine who the POTY will
be, but just to see who people vote for. Time picks whoever they want
regardless of the polls.

~~~
smackfu
Yeah, the poll is essentially just to generate another story about "who the
people want".

~~~
JonnieCache
These days it just seems to provide something to keep 4chan occupied for a
week.

------
rdl
Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if Snowden has just as much impact on 2014 as
he did on 2013.

------
dshibarshin
Why are these "Person of the Year" stories still relevant?

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001sky
Time awarding Snowden POY would them look out of the loop. That seems to be
the logiical PR explanation. Vatican is really a diminished institution, while
the NSA is ascendent. This just impugns the relevance of Time mag's editorial,
in a way...which is not flattering.

~~~
headgasket
Interesting comparison. The NSA will never need the Inquisition to assert its
power though, they already know. Knowledge is power.

~~~
inafield
What do you mean by "never need the Inquisition"? The CIA/DIA/NSA Inquisition
has been happening 24x7 for years now; we just haven't been privy to it.

------
leephillips
I'm continually amazed at the frequent and detailed coverage, by _every_ major
news organization, expended on every snore and snuffle emitted by this one
weird cult.

I'm almost as amazed by my own persistent naivete: I went to _Time_ fully
expecting to see Snowden.

~~~
michaelsbradley
"And in the same fashion, while we can if we choose see the Church amid a mob
of Mithraic or Manichean superstitions squabbling and killing each other at
the end of the Empire, while we can if we choose imagine the Church killed in
the struggle and some other chance cult taking its place, we shall be the more
surprised (and possibly puzzled) if we meet it two thousand years afterwards
rushing through the ages as the winged thunderbolt of thought and everlasting
enthusiasm; a thing without rival or resemblance; and still as new as it is
old."

– G.K. Chesterton, _The Everlasting Man_ , 1925

[http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100311.txt](http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100311.txt)

------
nalsh
I think that some of you guys are missing the point by being a bit too
America-centric. The new Pope is a gamechanger for a ton of people and has
effected more lives directly than Snowden has (at least in those peoples'
perspective).

~~~
TheRealBabibi
How? He cant even stop his own priests from fucking kids.

~~~
Xdes
Man the public education system is broken. They can't even keep their own
teachers from fucking kids.

------
drill_sarge
Yes please, make this choice least interesting/controversial as possible to
make it even more irrelevant. The interesting question is: would it be someone
else if Time wasn't US media?

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croisillon
Maybe that's my trope as much as Snowden looks like a trope to some other
commenters here but 2013 was the perfect timing[0] for a POY "LGBT
Recognition" or so.

Anyway, I'm betting on a science-related POY in 2014, remember to check if I
was right ;)

[0] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-
sex_marriage#Timeline](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-
sex_marriage#Timeline)

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samelliot
They have well and truly learnt that they get more clicks by naming someone
completely undeserving than the answer everyone expects.

------
nealabq
Here's some info about the poll. It reports a few (too few) numbers. I suppose
the editors didn't want to overwhelm us.

[http://poy.time.com/2013/12/05/egypts-sisi-wins-readers-
poll...](http://poy.time.com/2013/12/05/egypts-sisi-wins-readers-poll-for-
time-person-of-the-year/)

------
jagermo
meh, I am not impressed by the pope. If he wanted, he could to something, e.g.
propagating the use of condoms in developing countries. But so far all he did
were some propaganda stunts. Especially the "capitalism = bad" letter he
published (written in the Vatican, surrounded by gold and amassed wealth) is
not worth the paper he printed it on.

I have recently visited South Africa and I have seen the problems caused by
non existent (or rather: not allowed by the church) family planning.

However, lots of people (mostly Catholics) just want see some change, and
Franzicus is feeding their hopes. Not a hard job after Ratzinger (remember, he
was head of the current-time inquisition), but as long as he doesn't tackle
any of the real world problems that are within his reach, he is nothing more
than a prop.

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macspoofing
This is as big a cop-out as choosing Giuliani over Osama bin Laden as Time
Person of the Year 2001.

------
salient
I figured they wouldn't give it to Snowden. They're too scared/docile to do
such a thing. They gave it to Zuckerberg - in 2011 (why that year?!) - instead
of Assange, too, so whatever. To me Time POY is useless.

------
GnwbZHiU
Why do people angry? It's _Time_ person of the year, they have their own
criteria, they can choose anyone they want, they don't need to justify it. If
you want, you can also publish your own person of the year.

------
mrmondo
Is this a joke or a payoff?!

~~~
boredprogrammer
Indeed. Miley Cyrus was robbed.

------
bsenftner
Well, we all know Time, Time/Warner and the media in general in the US is
owned in the worst definitive way. So, of course Snowden can't be Person of
the Year.

------
bowlofpetunias
I'm sorry, why the fuck is dead tree publication praising a religious bigot a
top story on HN?

------
jheriko
shameful. although he has certainly had an impact, what a revolting choice.

to pick such a wicked and corrupt individual, especially one who is deluded
into thinking of themselves as righteous...

gah!!!

still... at least it wasn't Snowden.

