
Ghost Producing: What the EDM Industry Doesn’t Want You to Know - bifrost
http://www.crossfadr.com/2013/04/10/ghost-producing-what-the-edm-industry-does-not-want-you-to-know/
======
skrebbel
Thing is, DJing and producing dance tracks are entirely different crafts.
Somehow, when DJs playing other people's records achieved stardom, people
started expecting them to release their own tracks, too. Some were good at it,
but some weren't, so they hired someone else to help.

It isn't a very big problem, really, in my opinion. Most dance music fans can
pick out the good from the bad anytime. An artist who consistently produces
good records (acts like deadmau5, laurent garnier, and, yes, skrillex, come to
mind, but there's a gazillion more) probably has control over what goes on in
the studio. Ibiza deejays who have a dance chart hit or two, well, not so
sure.

In fact, the amazement is a good thing. It means we expect dance producers to
be original, the real thing. In other genres, most notably pop, we all expect
the writing and composing and arrangement and everything else except the
singing to have been done by anonymous, behind-the-scenes people.

As an example I was more amazed to discover that Take That actually write
their own songs, than to find out that Afrojack hired a studio guy.

ps. As an interesting aside, great reading material is "The Manual" by the
KLF[1]. Written in 1988, a big part of it is about how to get hired studio
engineers and programmers to basically produce your hit record for you,
without any necessary talent from your side. You just sit there and encourage
them.

[1]
[http://www.kirps.com/web/main/resources/music/themanual/](http://www.kirps.com/web/main/resources/music/themanual/)

~~~
tomphoolery
Haha that's an awesome book, thanks for sharing!

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Kiro
This was standard back when I was involved in the UK Hardcore scene. Novice
producers would take a rough draft or an idea to a sound engineer and have it
made into a song. The engineer was often a big name himself and sometimes the
artists would use "engineered by X" when marketing their tracks.

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antoinevg
The only reason this is a problem is because, in the EDM scene, "producer" has
somehow become confused with "artist"

Or to put it another way:

George Martin didn't write play a note or write a single song on the Beatle's
albums but there was no taint attached to him being credited as the producer.

Language is a funny beast.

~~~
disbelief
In hip hop and electronic music, "producer" is pretty much synonymous with
"artist". In hip hop the MC is the one whose voice you hear, and the producer
is, well, everything else: the beats and melodies in addition to the more
traditional producer stuff like arrangement and mastering. Electronic music
also follows this paradigm. As there is typically no live voice (any voice is
typically coming from samples), the producer is the entirety of the
production.

------
contingencies
Original forum thread:
[http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread/t-523822.html](http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/showthread/t-523822.html)

First comment: _This is hardly new information._

Anyway, nice to see trance making the HackerNews headlines! I just realized
1997 when I first met Assange was about the time _Ecuador!_ came out. Hehehe.

~~~
voltagex_
Escucha me!

------
nicholassmith
This has been an open secret for years and years, or so I thought anyway.
There's plenty of bedroom producers smashing out EPs, but when you're working
on big, stadium hits it requires a production team to get it right. Or, if
you're a biggish name DJ you're expected to drop some tracks of your own but
being a good DJ doesn't mean you can produce a track for toffee, you just know
what works for your sets.

~~~
wjnc
Nothing new here, although I am amazed that it is still considered a 'rumor'.
Just fly to Breda, the Netherlands and look around in the EDM-scene. Many, if
not most, of the upcoming DJs make and share with Tiesto. It's like a local
business clique. Many of those guys even have full-time jobs next to
producing, to pay for (lol) their hobbies.

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pfortuny
It's funny he does not seem to mention Milli Vanilli... [1], winners of a
Grammy (which was later revoked because, you know, they actually did not
sing!).

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milli_Vanilli](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milli_Vanilli)

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rmrfrmrf
This is pretty commonplace and how a lot of producers get started. Danja
ghosted a TON of Timbaland's mid-2000s work (think Nelly Fertado, Justin
Timberlake, etc.) and was able to land his own gig with Britney Spears shortly
thereafter.

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etrautmann
I don't really understand the big deal here. It sounds like some artists
collaborate or have some help writing parts of hit songs... what am I missing
on why this is important?

~~~
anigbrowl
It creates barriers to entry for new participants in the market. I don't lose
lots of sleep over it but as someone who makes electronic music it's quite
annoying to see that people with no talent or technical skill can just buy
their way to stardom. It's an open secret that many of the top earners don't
make their own music, but just trade on their brand or outrageous antics; eg
Steve Aoki's party trick is throwing cake into the faces of girls during his
live 'performances' \-
[http://www.edmontonjournal.com/entertainment/superstar+Steve...](http://www.edmontonjournal.com/entertainment/superstar+Steve+Aoki+will+tell+there+throwing+cakes/7770410/story.html).

When I mention that I make electronic music and people ask me 'oh, is it like
David Guetta' or suchlike I just want to cringe in embarrassment. Not because
I consider myself a musical genius or anything, but being good at it requires
years of study and practice like any other musical discipline, so it's
depressing to see the market leaders that perpetuate the stereotype of
electronic music as pushing a button and waving your hands in the air. I hope
the fad either blows over over or audiences wise up a bit and demand a better
standard of artistry, but that probably isn't going to happen :-/

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
Which inspired me to make this:
[http://i.imgur.com/HwXGDmO.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/HwXGDmO.jpg)

I technically know what all the buttons and knobs do, have a basic
understanding of music theory sufficient to make it sound like I almost know
what I'm talking about, and half my friends are DJ's and some of them are
producers, actually getting an idea out of my head and into the speakers is
not something I care enough about to put the effort in to. I'm a physical
infrastructure guy.

When people ask me what kind of music I listen to I'm a little cautious about
saying "Minimal Techno, Drum & Bass, Psytrance, Dubstep, Trip Top", so now I
just say "I used to listen to Minimal Techno, now I just to nothing", and see
if they get the joke.

In my arrogant opinion, many of the "EDM" 'top earners' give 'electronic
music'a bad name to those who think "EDM" and "Techno" are synonymous. My
audiophile friends and I have introduced lots of people, young and old, to
electronic music genres they didn't even know existed, and it's got them on
their feet dancing.

Skrillex uses Prime Loops! [1] Anyone with GarageBand can do that. I always
say "Skrillex isn't Dubstep, it's 'Commercial Shit-step".

[1] [http://primeloops.com/blog/index/post/title/skrillex-uses-
pr...](http://primeloops.com/blog/index/post/title/skrillex-uses-prime-loops-
vocals/)

~~~
protitap
>Skrillex uses Prime Loops! [1] Anyone with GarageBand can do that. I always
say "Skrillex isn't Dubstep, it's 'Commercial Shit-step".

Which means absolutely nothing. Lots of very talented producers use loops and
samples, and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you use them
creatively it says nothing about your skill as a musician or producer.

Yes, anyone with Garageband can use loops. But not everyone with Garageband
can produce to a professional standard, or write a decent melody, or chord
progression, or arrange a song, or create the perfect synth patch, or create
something new-sounding etc.

~~~
TheSpiceIsLife
You're entirely right, of course, and I agree. I was indulging in a bit of
Skrillex-bashing.

~~~
anigbrowl
You'll enjoy this:
[http://afxaventurs.tumblr.com/](http://afxaventurs.tumblr.com/)

------
petercooper
In other news, Dr Dre doesn't build his Beats _by_ Dre in a shed at the end of
his garden ;-)

A more serious parallel though, this is true of many artists (fine and modern
alike) such as Damien Hirst with his spot paintings of which over 1000 exist
and were supposedly mostly produced by other artists he selected. I think in
the context of artist as _curator_ , this is quite acceptable.

~~~
anigbrowl
Upvoted you, but disagree with the concept of artist as curator. That's just
marketing, and IMHO highly destructive to art.

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OvidNaso
GQ did an interesting article related to the topic.

[http://www.gq.com/entertainment/music/201304/avicii-tim-
berg...](http://www.gq.com/entertainment/music/201304/avicii-tim-bergling-
profile-gq-april-2013)

