
Singaporean Websites Must Pay To Mention Singapore And Not Mention Gay People - tellarin
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/singaporean-websites-must-pay-to-mention-singapore
======
rdtsc
It is interesting to me how on HN there seems to be a disproportionate number
(say relative to the general population) of Singapore fans. They pop up
randomly and often. Say something negative about Singapore, sure enough,
they'll chime in.

It is very strange. I don't care much for Singapore and don't usually think
about it outside of HN. Much like I don't think about Peru or Qatar or Sweden.
But the subject does come up on HN and sure enough there is a long series of
arguments pro and against Singapore's political, economic and social setup.

Ok so they have canning, that's brutal, they don't mind executing people, but
so do we in US apparently. The defense usually praises its economy and laws.

Now in this case with banning news related to homosexuality, I wonder how will
the "enlightened" Westerners going to defend it, while also keeping up with
the appearance of being modern libertarians. I tried playing devil's advocate
and a plausible argument, but I couldn't. I thought of using religion as
context (like say "it offends the religious sensitivities of the majority"),
but it seems Singapore is a hodge podge when it comes to that
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Singapore>.

Anyway just pointing out the (meta?) topic of Singapore is an an interesting
phenomenon here. Still not sure why. Is it just me that noticed it?

~~~
rosser
No, it's not just you. I'm genuinely curious to see how HN's pro-Singapore
members will respond to this — particularly, as you observe, the ones who are
otherwise ostensibly very libertarian.

~~~
jerf
What exactly does a libertarian supporter of Singapore look like, I wonder?
Isn't Singapore sort of the opposite of a libertarian country? Are you sure
such a beast exists?

It seems like "libertarian" in the last six months is being used more and more
often as a contentless slur on HN. Not even with the standard stereotypes from
those who disagree (selfish, greedy, etc.), I mean just flat-out content-free,
no apparent understanding that it is a word with some meaning (even if
ultimately as fuzzy as any other major political label).

"What about Singapore?" seems like a decent challenge to a libertarian. (I'm
just using that observation that that is a fair, nontrivial question to
further my main point. It's not a request for 150 messages providing a
libertarian critique of Singapore; I've got one, thanks.)

~~~
seanmcdirmid
There are real libertarians on HN, it is mostly a belief in a niche economic
system that is mostly the opposite of communism. But many people are confused
about the word, and a lot of young disillusioned Republicans have latched onto
the movement without truly understanding its principles.

I always get giddy when a libertarian on reddit points Singapore out as the
kind of country they want to live in: low taxes, high economic freedom! But
that's only because they don't realize its an actual police state! (whereas we
could argue that the USA is only partially a police state)

They then move onto talking about Hong Kong...

------
hkmurakami
original article headline @eff: Singaporean Websites Must Pay To Mention
Singapore... And Not Mention Gay People At All

OK I was totally confused by the HN headline, which makes it seem like you
have to pay if you mention Singapore AND fail to mention gay people at all, as
if the govt is saying "hey if you Manton us, you mention gay people too.
otherwise you gotta pay."

of course, I go to the article and see that whoever submitted the article
totally broke the grammar of the original headline, most lily to save space.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I read a real article about this. Basically, any news agency that discusses
Singapore more than N times a month must indemnify with a $50K SGD bond and
follow the laws of the country in all of the content they report.

So even CNN, if they report Singapore stories, will be subject to this, though
I doubt they will try to enforce this on international news agencies.

------
ValentineC
Just thought I'd mention that someone has organised a protest in Singapore to
this particular issue, at the government-sanctioned "Speakers' Corner", this
weekend: <https://www.facebook.com/events/185882738236629/>

I'm looking forward to see if the government listens.

------
pasbesoin
Another reason to support anonymity (and pseudonymity) on the Internet:

So that you can mention your country -- or partner -- without fear of economic
repercussions or prison.

------
thoughtcriminal
William Gibson calls Singapore "DisneyLand with the Death Penalty":
<http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.04/gibson.html>

Definitely sounds like a surreal place.

~~~
latch
Been living here for almost a year, it's wonderful. Less personal freedom than
Hong Kong, but all things considered, it's one of the best places to live.

You don't walk or talk worrying about the police or anything like that. You
aren't going to be able to protest or stuff, but aside from the huge gap
between rich and poor (a problem facing all Asian countries), there aren't
huge issues to protest.

Edit: I was wrong to say the above. Apologies. Keeping it here though for
context to comments below.

~~~
fpgeek
> there aren't huge issues to protest

Aside from the issues mentioned in the OP?

Or if you are gay?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_%28Singapore%29)

Or immigration policy? <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21485729>

Or...

I live in Singapore too, and while there are plenty of pluses there are also
plenty of minuses and they shouldn't be minimized or ignored.

~~~
latch
Ok, you and zainny make fair points. I guess I was looking at it from the
perspective of, say, Turkey right now..or Somalia. But even if it isn't at
that scale, freedom of speech is important and I was wrong do dismiss it so
casually.

~~~
potatolicious
I don't think anyone seriously compares Singapore to Somalia or Turkey - by
that measure it's a veritable paradise. The comparisons I have seen have all
compared it to developed, first-world countries like most of western Europe,
the USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, etc.

It is, after all, the league that Singapore wants to play in both in image and
influence.

