
FedEx vs. UPS: opposing models in the delivery business raise questions (2004) - dluan
http://www.braunconsulting.com/bcg/newsletters/winter2004/winter20041.html
======
coopernewby
This article was written in 2004. Starting In 2005 FedEx got in a bunch of
misclassification lawsuits over using 1099 contractors, today they have lost
over $453 Million to these settlements. [http://www.talentwave.com/fedex-
worker-misclassification-cas...](http://www.talentwave.com/fedex-worker-
misclassification-case-settled-for-227-million/)

~~~
opencl
I'm amazed they still get away with this after losing multiple class action
lawsuits over it, but apparently losing the string of class action lawsuits
over violating labor laws is cheaper than just following the labor laws or
they would have started following them a long time ago.

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katastic
Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but the article seems to slant in favor of FedEx
using contractors. And then you look at the pros and cons.

    
    
      FedEx Ground Cons:
    
      - No benefits, no overtime pay, no sick time, no insurance
    
      - Drivers pay for vehicle, gas, supplies, insurance, and everything else
    
      - No company retirement, seemingly less stable environment
    
      - No Teamsters contract or collective bargaining
    
      - Drivers have only one client: FedEx
    

That's one step above glorified pizza delivery driver for a career. I wouldn't
wish that on anyone. My wife has extended family, on the other hand, that have
worked 40+ years at UPS and retired with benefits. Now, I'm not saying, "UPS
rules, and FedEx sucks." But I'm hesitant to throw my support behind any
business model that treats people like temporary commodities instead of long-
term resources.

~~~
sjg007
FedEx => Uber => FedUbX Delivery

~~~
technobabble
FUBAR Delivery.

If it's not f*cked it's free!

------
kylec
I know it's anecdata, but in my experience UPS is way better about actually
delivering packages to me than FedEx is. I live in a building with a call box,
to which both FedEx and UPS were given their own codes, but most of the time
FedEx "attempts" a delivery they mark it as undeliverable. It's gotten to the
point where I'm now preemptively requesting my FedEx-shipped packages to be
held at a local FedEx ship & print center rather than even waiting for the
first attempted delivery. UPS, on the other hand, delivers packages without a
hitch nearly every single time.

I don't know whether this has anything to do with the contractor vs employee
nature of these companies, but I do know that UPS is way better at actually
doing their job.

~~~
javiramos
I echo this. I receive about 5-20 packages per day froma variety of vendors
and origin countries and I can say that UPS is superior to Fedex in many
subtle ways. This has been my experience across the spectrum of offerings:
ground, rush air, and freight.

~~~
hkmurakami
Perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges but my USPS guy who is the same nice
man for at least the last 10 years, has been much more reliable than either
the FedEx or UPS delivery staff.

He even collected the strewn around mail from our mailbox the other day and
visited us to let us know that someone has likely been stealing our mail and
that we should check our credit cards. I'll miss him when he retires soon.

~~~
takeda
From my experience quality of USPS varies. Some employees are doing a superb
job, but some just don't seem to give a f*k. I've seen mails delivered to
wrong mailboxes, sometimes I've seen mail that is even from a different
street. One time they marked item as delivered, before they actually did which
made me worry it was stolen (fortunately the item was delivered 2 hours
later).

Other time (more an issue for Amazon in that instance) they delivered item but
never scanned it so an opportunist could claim that item was never delivered
and there's no way to verify that.

As I said there are also good things. I really like that USPS doesn't
artificially delay packages like UPS (if item could be delivered sooner, but
was paid for 2 days delivery, they will hold it). I for example had a package
delivered next day because it was shipped from a close place, even though the
estimate was 3-5 days.

~~~
giancarlostoro
> but some just don't seem to give a f*k. I've seen mails delivered to wrong
> mailboxes

This happened to me during tax season no less. My only saving factor was that
they put it into the mailbox of a relative who lived next door (and their last
name is significantly different from mine) imagine a total stranger with my
tax refund plus all that information. Thank you incompetent USPS employee. We
definitely complained about them, not sure if they've sorted that out but I
also bought a book not short after that, and you guessed it, my relative got
my book instead.

------
jschwartzi
There's some incorrect information in the article regarding UPS driver
salaries. Drivers can make more than $100k/year if they work overtime. Some
drivers make more than managers for similar amounts of work due to their being
hourly.

This is all hearsay from the UPS driver that worked the route while I was
clerking in a warehouse. He also seemed much happier than the FedEx drivers,
both of which were pretty grumpy. He was also a lot more helpful and we often
asked him to delay our pickup for last minute orders, which was something the
FedEx drivers would never do.

~~~
wtracy
The article is a from 2005, so the salary information is probably out of date.

------
lathiat
I always feel like this contractor vs larger employee situation is weighted
for early and late game.

As a contractor style, at the start it seems fun there are potential rewards,
etc.. but you need to manage yourself a lot more, and there is less of a
safety net or any kind of belonging.

As an employee style you are more of a robot at the start and have to submit
to the company as it were, but later on you are looked after much better and
there are teams within the company that can focus on efficiency and making
life better, etc.

As someone who has a fairly split career in doing both I can fully understand
the merits of both but I worry about the long term trajectory of the majority
of people becoming independent as it were.

~~~
opencl
FedEx's "contractors" conveniently get the worst of both worlds. They are
treated exactly like employees except when it comes to pay/benefits. There
have been multiple class action lawsuits over contractor misclassification and
they just keep settling them.

------
cypherpunks01
Anyone know if the employment situation with Fedex or UPS is different now, 13
years after this was written?

~~~
bluedino
I'd like to know more about the back-end, not just the drivers.

What about the salaries and benefits in the offices, sorting facilities, etc?

~~~
RightMillennial
Back in 2009 I worked part-time at the early morning shift loading UPS's brown
delivery trucks. I made above minimum wage with no option of overtime yielding
~12k/year. They had an education credit of 1.5k/semester provided you were a
full-time student (12+ credits/semester). I don't remember about the health
insurance because I was under my parents'. At that time there was a 10 year
wait queue for full-time employment because it's primarily seniority based.
And the Teamsters union initiation dues suck your first month of pay.

Oh, make sure to properly pad your fragile packages because they may or may
not be pushed, shoved, flipped, thrown, or dropped depending on how busy it
is.

------
untangle
Huh, so FedEx and Uber are aligned in labor policies, at least in a macro
sense. Both achieve cost benefits, and the two face many of the same legal
risks around job classification (and potential exploitation and tax evasion).

In theory, both are therefore one major legal decision away from a very bad
set of financials. In practice, hoards of lawyers and lobbyists undoubtedly
man the wall (and keep winter at bay).

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mockindignant
2004 should probably be in the title.

------
ribs
UPS has spent significant effort trying to put the Federal screws to FedEx in
the past.[1]

[1]
[http://reason.com/reasontv/2010/10/22/whiteboard](http://reason.com/reasontv/2010/10/22/whiteboard)
[http://reason.com/archives/2009/09/28/using-unions-as-
weapon...](http://reason.com/archives/2009/09/28/using-unions-as-weapons)

~~~
pktgen
While UPS's motivation is obvious, their argument is valid. There is no good
reason for FedEx Express drivers to not be covered by the NLRA.

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tyingq
Interesting business space. Both UPS and FedEx manage to raise rates at a clip
that is higher than inflation, every single year. Even when their costs
decline, like when fuel prices dropped.

I guess there is technically no collusion, but it doesn't seem like there is
much competition either.

It makes it difficult for smaller companies to do well because only the
biggest companies get reasonable shipping rates.

This is one space where I won't shed any tears if Amazon hands them their ass.

~~~
eridius
The only delivery company worse than Amazon's own delivery is OnTrac.

~~~
costcopizza
Only started seeing them when I moved to LA--they by far have the oldest
delivery vehicles, some with noticeably worn out suspension parts.

~~~
eridius
OnTrac is the only company where I've had to call dispatch and request that
they put a note on our address saying not to throw packages over the 10-foot
gate onto hard concrete steps.

And I had to do that 3 times before they actually stopped.

------
jacob019
My company has had a much better experience with FedEx than UPS. FedEx
employees seem happier. Our driver owns his route and treats us like his
personal customer. The UPS guys are nice too but tend to have that postal
worker attitude and don't seem as happy. UPS loses more packages, though that
seems to have improved. UPS support sucks and their API is even worse. I can't
tell you how many times I've wanted to pull my hair out while in a UPS call
queue being transferred around between clueless front line reps. Their
automatic billing has broken on us over the years to the point where we would
have to call in to pay each invoice manually or start getting collections
notices. They couldn't fix it and we had to just open a new account. This
happened twice! FedEx support OTOH is excellent. While I'm greatful for the
support of my friends at UPS, I greatly prefer to do business with FedEx.

------
merpnderp
I know most of my UPS drivers by name, and always have great service. I’ve
never had anything wrong from Fedex, but I’d pay a bit extra to use UPS, as
they seem less hurried, friendlier and never don’t ring the bell (Fedex never
does)

~~~
craftyguy
I'd be ok with a courier not ringing the dog bell, especially since they all
support email delivery notification.

------
SomeHacker44
I have a few vendors that use FedEx Ground. Absolute worst. They almost never
deliver on time. One sick driver means days of delays. You cannot pick up the
package at the local FedEx depot that evening if you miss it; it goes to some
central place miles away with no pick up policy. I have banned my vendors from
using this, and dropped vendors who won't ship by "real" FedEx, UPS or heck
even USPS.

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jccalhoun
This explains why the last time I had a package delivered by "fedex" it was
delivered by a guy in a Budget rental truck.

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purplezooey
One thing is certain. FedEx SmartPost and FedEx Ground are so slow I usually
avoid buying something if those are the only options. Two weeks delivery time?
Are the independent contractors driving rickshaws?

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dangerboysteve
The article is from 2004. Nothing has changed since then?

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costcopizza
A somewhat tangential thought...

-I feel like I used to see DHL trucks and ads much more often. Did they abandon some of the residential delivery market?

~~~
abrowne
"30 January 2009: DHL ends domestic pick up and delivery service in the United
States, effectively leaving UPS and FedEx as the two major express parcel
delivery companies in the United States"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHL_Express](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHL_Express)

------
pktgen
FedEx Ground "contractors" are actually employees, just misclassified.

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exabrial
UPS: smash it to bits, hold it in the warehouse as long as possible, fake
delivery attempts, all for higher prices

~~~
alexibm
I work for UPS as a developer and responsible for software that manages/tracks
actual deliveries and delivery window. Can you provide some information about
fake delivery attempts ? I will personally make sure that if there were "fake"
deliveries, you will get a refund and who ever "faked" is punished.

~~~
adekok
The typical complaint is that you're at home, waiting for a package. You check
the tracking all day "on the truck". Then at one point, it says "no one home".

Uh... I've _been_ at fucking home all day.

Or worse, see the truck _drive by your house_ , followed by the tracking
updated to "no one home".

That's a fake delivery attempt.

~~~
alexibm
Can you email me the tracking number of the "fake" delivery to
adorfman@ups.com ? I will pull GPS coordinates + other data for you, of where
& when the delivery was made/attempted.

