
Why I'm Ditching Android - kevq
https://kevq.uk/why-im-ditching-android/
======
SamWhited
I've been coming around to this way of thinking more and more lately. Apple
has a clear business model that involves selling high-end phones and other
hardware and taking a percentage of app sales, not selling me to advertisers.
I've found at least 5 different privacy settings buried in various places
around the Android menus in a confusing way (instead of just having a single
switch in the privacy settings menu), and for years iOS has had a much better
security track record. The only real down side I can see is that it's not open
source (not that Android is either, but there are Android based alternatives
that are), but on balance I'd rather use something where the economic pressure
is to do right by their customers, not something where their customers are the
product.

Apple has serious problems, but on balance it seems to be the better choice. I
also tend to agree with the OP that the iPhone SE is a reasonable size, unlike
every Android phone on the market. I just really wish there were a decent chat
client that supported XMPP-based services, that's really all that's stopped me
from moving over (my carrier lets me receive SMS/MMS messages to an XMPP
address and receive calls via SIP, so it's rather important to me).

~~~
tootie
I think you can say that if privacy is important to you, then you are probably
more aligned with Apple's business plan. The article says as much. It's not
like Apple are being more magnanimous, it's just that they don't profit off of
user tracking so they use it as marketing ammo against Google users.

As a developer, it constantly burns my biscuits that Apple software only runs
on Apple hardware. The fact that I have no choice but to buy expensive Apple
devices to develop for their platform is irritating.

~~~
reaperducer
_The fact that I have no choice but to buy expensive Apple devices to develop
for their platform is irritating._

I've never understood this line of thinking.

Maybe it's because I've been selling programs commercially since the 1980's.
Back then, if you wanted to develop a program for a Commodore 64, you bought a
Commodore 64. If you wanted to port it to a TRS-80, you bought a TRS-80. If
you needed an Atari version, you bought Atari gear.

In the mid-80's it was just ordinary business that if you were developing a
program, you released it on Commodore, Apple, Texas Instruments, IBM, and a
few others. And to achieve that, you bought at least one machine from each of
those companies.

The concept of "I want to build an iPhone app on a Windows box" is a strange
new phenomenon to me.

~~~
testrun
It is not 1980 anymore. We moved on. And that is one of the reasons that the
ibm pc was so successful. One platform to develop for, as opposed to TRS,
Commodore 64/128/Amiga, Acorn etc.

~~~
pjmlp
The IBM PC was successful because IBM did a couple of mistakes, which have
been fixed in the world of laptops, 2-1 convertibles, mobile, tablets without
expansion slots, with UEFI and blocked boot loaders.

------
me551ah
Notifications, as you rightly mentioned, are a huge problem with Android. Some
manufacturers implement battery saving measures which force kill applications
so they can no longer process notifications.

I used to work at a team messaging startup Flock and we used to get a lot of
complaints from users about missing notifications. We were able to detect
impacted users and reduce complaints substantially using duplicate acks from
xmpp fcm and app. The details are outlined here in case anyone wants to check
out: [https://hackernoon.com/notifications-in-android-are-
horribly...](https://hackernoon.com/notifications-in-android-are-horribly-
broken-b8dbec63f48a)

~~~
rando444
Pardon my ignorance, but why do you see this as an Android-only problem?

Surely every possible operating system suffers the same problem, no?

~~~
bunnycorn
Not me551ah, but the problem with Android is that:

1\. iOS is an Apple operating system. Every iOS device has a daemon running a
service that connects with Apple's APNS (Apple Push Notification Service), and
that service routes the notifications of every App to the user's device. APNS
is non-negotiable, every iOS device has it running, and every App that wants
to [reliably] deliver notifications must use it. It's part of the OS, so the
OS won't kill it, in fact, if it crashes, the OS restarts it. It also means
it's "well behaved", meaning it won't mine cryptocurrencies in the background
(unless Apple breaks bad and decides that it's $1T value is not worth it
anymore).

2\. Android is not a strictly Google operating system. Google has it's APNS
analogous, GCM (Google Cloud Messaging), but not every Android device has ties
with Google, its open source, meaning millions (billions?) of Android devices
out there are running without any Google ties. So in turn, many Apps device to
have their own background tasks running all the time, with a persistent
connection to the server to watch for notifications. Problem with this it's
okay when you have 10 Apps with notifications, not when you have 100 Apps with
notifications, each one having it's own background service. Some Android OEM's
want their users to have great batt life and kill those background services,
leaving notifications dead.

~~~
NightlyDev
GCM is replaced by FCM.

Also, sure, some user might run pure Android and not have a centralized push
notification system, but that is not the problem people usually might be
experiencing.

The power management and priority system is rather complicated on Android and
incoming notifications might be deferred or not shown at all(to avoid wasting
power on low priority notifications) depending on app, app usage and settings.

------
zdmc
I made the switch to a refurbished 6s a couple of months ago when we started
work on a new iOS app, and I am happy that I did. For the foreseeable future,
I'll be purchasing iPhones. (I even purchased the recently announced Mac Mini
in order to access the Apple software ecosystem; though, I suspect that I'll
continue to prefer my Ubuntu laptop for productivity).

Why switch? After all this time (embarrassed to say), I've finally started to
take my data privacy seriously. I really respect Google as an engineering
company, and even as a product company. Products like Search/PageRank, Maps,
StreetView, SkyMap, Translate, Books/Scholar, AdWords/AdSense/AdMob, Places,
Trends, TensorFlow (and CoLab w/ free 12 hr sessions of TPU or GPU), BigTable,
Gmail, Glass, and of course Android all are/were really great products. The
only problem: those offerings are for the direct purpose of collecting your
personal data (or the indirect purposes of making their other products - which
collect your data - more efficient, or to bring more people online to collect
data from).

I would love Google as a product company; I hate them as an ad company (85%+
of revenues resulting from advertising activities). I have migrated from, or I
am currently migrating from, every Google product with the exception of
YouTube (difficult to break from that, so I try to mitigate by having multiple
accounts) and TensorFlow.

Notifications on Android were never an issue for me. Maybe I didn't have a
similar suite of apps as OP. (iOS notifications have been more annoying thus
far).

------
dagenix
The number of requests sent to Google or Apple seems like a poor metric to
judge privacy impact. A single request with my bank account number carries a
lot more information about me than 1,000 with my battery status.

~~~
kopo
I thought so too, until while programming a wifi webcam I needed to sniff wifi
traffic from my phone. God that was scary. I remember doing packet capture
work 10-12 years back and knowing more or less what my machine was doing on
the network.

These days I can't even begin to work that out. There is easily a 100x more
traffic and every single time I ran a capture I would find a whole bunch of
new hosts being contacted that have no business talking to my phone. And I
just use my phone for email and messaging. Not a big app user.

------
fractalf
The worlds really could use a "free" mobile OS. I was sad that Firefox OS
never saw daylight. Im on android and dislike google very much, though not as
much as I disslike Apple. Purism is making a Libre 5 mobile, I hope something
like that could really break through. Imagine a desktop/server world without
linux. Thats would be awefull. Yet thats where we are with mobiles today

~~~
amiga-workbench
Firefox OS is now known as Kai OS, its available on devices like the nokia
banana phone. I've still got a Mozilla Flame developer handset and it all runs
surprisingly smoothly.

~~~
gregknicholson
Firefox OS is open source. KaiOS is closed source.

KaiOS may be a continuation of the same product, but it's not a continuation
of the same project.

------
abrax3141
I also have an SE and love it. The OP, and various posts above are slightly
wrong to say that Apple is a hardware company. Apple is a PRODUCT company;
They design, sell, and support the whole product. That’s why is all Just
Works, which is what most folks of any ilk want. Even their Unix (basically
BSD) Just Works. Yeah, a little more Open would be great, but when I want to
build something else, like a house, I really don’t need to be worrying about
recompiling my screwdriver. Like the OP said, I want a phone that’s a phone
and works. I want a Unix that’s stabdards compliant and works. I want a laptop
that works. And I’m willing to pay a little more for someone else to build and
maintain the roads and bridges so I can get where I want to go. And, yeah, not
to spy on me while I’m getting there.

------
Kirth
A bit painful to read considering the iPhone SE-series is now discontinued.
(Despite that the SE is still a very good phone. Wish more manufacturers made
devices with these dimensions and polish.)

~~~
aikah
Yeah, the SE was best value/price phone. I have hard time understanding why
Apple stopped producing it. The form factor was the best as well, I can't
stand bigger phones personally.

I told my parents to buy an Android initially but ultimately they moved to the
iPhone because they thought it was simpler and better than Android. To me the
fact that I can code my own apps with Java without having to buy a mac is a
plus, but I understand people who aren't developers don't care about
hackability if they can afford an iPhone.

~~~
wrkronmiller
iOS can also be pretty fun to develop for if you have a mac and xcode.

IMHO iOS is good for developers who are okay with coloring inside the lines
set out by Apple. The developer experience isn't perfect by any stretch, but
writing personal apps/utilities in Swift using a package manager like Carthage
is pretty painless.

Apple has some great features for de-centralization, such as the Multipeer
Connectivity framework.

I think it depends a lot on where in the stack you want to work. If you want
to customize your baseband or do system-level modifications then Android is
the way to go. If you work higher up the stack, writing apps, then you might
like iOS more than Android. I certainly did.

------
asveikau
I put lineage on two devices and I must say it's shockingly refreshing to be
able to have some say in how much Google you get. I am used to the idea of OEM
and carrier bloatware but it's surprising how much unwanted Google software
appears in a stock image. On lineage I am pretty happy with the "nano" set of
OpenGApps which is about the amount of Googleyness I want. I install a few
more from Play on top.

~~~
jimktrains2
I've been using CyanogenMod and now LineageOS since my first Android phone,
and I love it over OEM. I'm unfortunatly still tied to GApps, but at this
point it's basically contacts and calendar sync along with Maps, along with a
random Play-store-only app (e.g. Transit). (I find almost everything I need in
F-Droid.) (Yes, I have OSMand and offline maps, but I still like Google Maps
for some things.)

My biggest problem right now is finding an Android phone smaller than 5",
preferably under 4½", that I can both install lineageOS on and actually
purchase :-\

~~~
dorfsmay
I hate how Google Contacts and Calendar are so much superior to any other
offer. I can easily find alternative to everything google except for those
two.

Especially true with Contacts I feel like I'm doxing everybody I add to it. I
have tried many alternative, but nothing even remotely measure to it.

~~~
bootlooped
I personally find Gmail and Drive to also be superior offerings. The only
problem I have with either is privacy.

Gmail's integration with Drive and Calendar are really nice. It's a very
mature web email app besides all that. It's not hard to find other email
solutions, but in my experience they lack the polish and integration that
makes Gmail so valuable.

I have been looking for a good zero-knowledge cloud storage solution that fit
my requirements for a while. All of the alternatives I've tried have severe
limitations or unresolved issues.

~~~
dorfsmay
Lots alternative for mail, even self-hosted can be pretty polished.

Google drive doesn't work on Linux so it's a non-starter for me. Have you
looked at PCloud and Dropbox?

------
wowamit
To say that I'm ditching Android is a pretty incomplete statement - because
there is no one Android. It really matter which flavour of Android we are
talking about. And which specific device. For example, the bloatware might not
be a problem on a unlocked Pixel device.

At this point, both iOS and Android are in pretty stable states. It comes down
to individual preferences. Author primarily seems to have an issue with
Google, which again is justified.

~~~
pseudoandy
I do not have any extra bloatware from any manufacturer, due to the fact that
I run a Xiaomi Mi A1 as my daily driver, but I still would appreciate the
choice to be able to manually install only the apps that I would use, e.g.
Firefox instead of Chrome. I do have 64Gb of internal storage, but I obsess
about every lost megabyte due to something I don't use( even when disabled or
not used, Chrome still runs functions on the phone, so it runs in the
background ).

~~~
muro
Chrome is the webview for all apps, might be tricky to remove.

~~~
TheRealPomax
It's not, though.

WebView is the built in web view mechanism for all apps that don't want to
roll their own web view, and Chrome for Android is a browser that makes use of
that WebView mechanism. Strictly speaking, a browser is just an interface that
lets you interact with web pages.

And you're not locked into WebView: if you actually wrote your own, you're
entirely free to deploy it. It's just insanely hard to write a web render
engine these days so for most people there's no point in the slightest: it
just makes your application bigger.

One example where it _does_ make sense is Firefox for Android, which comes
with its own engine, because as long as the Android core classes area
available, it should be able to run. Not "stop working" just because someone
tailored their Android build to not include WebView.

~~~
muro
I understand your point and you are right. There is a difference between
theory and practice - in practice, it is Chrome.

~~~
TheRealPomax
Plainly no: in practice, it is the Android SDK WebView class, not the 140MB
Chrome app.

~~~
muro
From Google search results:

Android WebView is a system component powered by Chrome that allows Android
apps to display web content

------
matart
On the notifications part, I had a Huawei phone for a bit and encountered the
same issue. Huawei does some crazy things to keep the battery from draining.
It does kill almost all background apps. There are some settings to stop this
but it seems like a crap shoot whether it decided to listen to them. I thought
android had gone down hill and eventually tested out an S9 and realized it was
the Huawei android flavor that did this.

~~~
yason
To me, this sounds like a feature.

Basically I'd like the phone to cut off all mobile data, wifi, gps, and other
radio and kill all applications when the screen is locked.

OnePlus has some background activity limits and you can turn on the aggressive
Doze (or whatever it's called these days) but if my phone is locked I would
really, really like to just receive calls and sms and have the system enforce
that, and switch off all the unrelated hardware to extend standby time.

~~~
aembleton
I used to do this when I had a rooted phone. I kept the radio active so that I
could receive calls and texts but data, GPS and wifi were all off.

It saved battery if I wasn't doing much with my phone. If I was constantly
unlocking to check where I was on a map then it ate up more battery and it was
incredibly frustrating as it takes a while to get a GPS lock when you don't
have Wifi to assist in a city, until Wifi come back on which also takes a
while. Friends that only communicate with messenger and Whatsapp had trouble
getting through. Loads of apps that had been trying to communicate also woke
up once there was a connection using up more CPU cycles, slowing everything
down some more.

IMHO, its not worth it. Just use the background apps controller in Android
8.1. Whitelist the things that you do want notifications from and everything
else can wait for you to open the app.

------
arminiusreturns
The second a pure linux phone without googles bullshit (which includes
allowing manufacturer and carrier bullshit) comes out, I'm switching. Until
then I'm sticking with my blackberry android because at least I have a linux
underside and a foss appstore.

Google had such a good opportunity with android, and shit the bed with it,
abusing users and letting manufacturers and carriers join in on the abuse.

There should be a "Right to Root".

~~~
Johnny555
I think you already missed that boat:

[https://www.techradar.com/news/canonicals-dream-for-an-
ubunt...](https://www.techradar.com/news/canonicals-dream-for-an-ubuntu-phone-
is-dead)

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
And OpenMoko before that.

Turns out the number of people that actually want a phone with a terminal
interface is in the dozens.

~~~
LeoPanthera
Don’t strawman. No-one wants a phone with a terminal interface, and linux
phones did not have terminal interfaces.

~~~
foob
I recognize that I'm in the minority, but I want a terminal interface on my
phone. I have my qualms with Android, but one of my favorite things about it
is that I can drop into a terminal and have what is essentially a full Linux
distro at my disposal. I often leave my main laptop at the office instead of
lugging it around, and it's great being able to use a bluetooth keyboard with
my phone to get real work done sometimes.

I use termux [1] which allows me to install whatever software I want with APT.
I can use vim, ssh into servers, and mostly do whatever else I would do on a
computer. It's not a strawman, it's just a developer-centric niche.

1 -
[https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Main_Page](https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Main_Page)

~~~
LeoPanthera
There’s a difference between a phone with a terminal and a phone with a
terminal interface.

------
mikestew
_Yes their hardware is grossly overpriced, but the flagship Android phones are
pretty much inline with Apple these days._

So which is it, Apple is grossly over-priced or inline with what a decent
Android phone costs? And then the author goes on to complain about the data
firehouse back to Google and bloatware. Are we yet seeing that price is not
always measured in dollars? I don’t mean to pick on the author, I guess it’s
just interesting to watch the process of coming to this realization.

But the notifications, holee-shit. That seems like one of those “under a full
moon...” reports, but others here confirm. I’m so speechless, I don’t even
have a snarky Apple fanboi comment.

~~~
ricardobeat
Apple devices have been historically overpriced. Most recently Android
manufacturers wised up and realized they can also benefit from segmentation,
and raised prices to match. Now everything is overpriced, and we all win! /s

------
brownbat
A lot of people want to ditch both Android and Apple, so /e/ is kicking off as
a purely Google-free FOSS OS the author might like more than Lineage, once it
gets a little more developed:

[https://www.xda-developers.com/e-google-free-lineageos-
fork-...](https://www.xda-developers.com/e-google-free-lineageos-fork-nexus-
oneplus-xiaomi/)

We're overdue for some viable third option.

~~~
guilhas
Isn't LineageOS microG already google free?

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Did you read the author’s issues with that?

~~~
brownbat
The author talks about lineage, but not micro g, which does sound designed to
solve his exact issue.

"Android experience relies heavily on Google's Play Services. The microG
project creates an alternative to installing Gapps, which install and execute
closed-source blobs on our phones. MicroG however requires a patch called
"signature spoofing"..."

------
amanaplanacanal
I'm also thinking about ditching android, for a completely different reason.

I want a premium phone. I like good cameras, and big fat CPUs. So I've been
using Samsung phones for a while. I currently have an S6, which I have been
pretty happy with. But it has come to my attention that it has received its
last update about 6 months ago. Samsung only sends updates for two years.

Having an internet-connected device that no longer gets patches? Seems like a
terrible idea to me.

Apple supports their phones for 5 years. So that's the direction I'm currently
looking.

~~~
poisonborz
Just ask around what great experience it is to use new os/apps on a 5 year old
phone.

~~~
lvalenta
I think this issue is likely to be diminished as the performance difference's
not been improving that much lately (X and XS having similar CPU performance)
- we have come to a point of smartphone evolution where yearly additions to a
performance will not be the reason to upgrade -> therefore I don't expect new
iOS versions slowing devices significantly.

~~~
amanaplanacanal
That's what I am thinking too.

------
ryl00
I ditched Android 2+ years ago for... Windows Mobile. :)

While I did so for purely financial reasons (Microsoft was in the process of
bailing out, so was putting their stock on fire sale and I couldn't resist,
ecosystem disadvantages notwithstanding), I've come to appreciate the design
and will be sad once I have to leave (I'm still using a Windows 10 Mobile
Alcatel IDOL 4s as my daily driver).

To me, Windows Mobile had some of the best parts of Android (hardware variety)
and Apple (regular OS/security updates for all).

------
archi42
I'm currently in a similar spot, but am very surprised you did not mention
MicroG, which is an open reimplementation of the Google APIs. There seem to be
some issues with GCM (or, more precisely, the newer replacement - uhm, FCM?),
but imho it's worth a try. If you already have a LineageOS-supported device,
you can grab a prebuilt LineageOS+MicroG image from the MicroG site.

Disclaimer: That's pure theory. I'm still figuring out how to do a custom
build of LOS16+MicroG for my device, since it's only on LOS14.

~~~
kop316
Have you looked here? They do builds of lineageos with mircog already
installed

[https://lineage.microg.org/](https://lineage.microg.org/)

~~~
archi42
Thanks :), but as I said:

> If you already have a LineageOS-supported device, you can grab a prebuilt
> LineageOS+MicroG image from the MicroG site.

I redacted a lengthy part of my comment since I felt it wouldn't add anything
to the discussion; but it went like this: Sadly, my device (HTC 10 aka pme) is
officially only on LineageOS 14.x, which is Android 7. Since I am coming from
Android 8 stock ROM, I'd like to stay on Android 8 or even get Android 9.
There are unofficial LineageOS builds for this (from a guy who just doesn't
merge the back to LOS; which I can understand considering the additional
effort - on top of all the work is already doing). But of course they lack the
necessary patches for MicroG. And the MicroG only pre-builts are based on the
official LineageOS build process and thus the official images. So I can only
get Android 7 + MicroG with the comfortable "grab image and flash"-method.

I gave building a custom MicroG+LOS{15.1,16.0} a shot using the official
MicroG docker image (just a single docker run command) and adding the
unofficial builds local_manifest.xml, but those two builds failed for me and I
didn't bother messing around with that docker c __*. Accidentally, I did that
the day before this was posted to HN, no changes since then. But I suppose I
'll try a docker-less build on my machine once I feel like it.

Eventually I can just put MicroG on the unofficial build from xda-devs, since
that doesn't contain GApps; but I am not sure how great the experience is when
not having the MicroG/F-Droid patches. I will see.

EDIT: Regarding signature spoofing, the MicroG github wiki says:

> You can also patch your already-install ROM by flashing NanoDroid-patcher,
> without any computer interaction. It will auto-patch every updated ROM.

So maybe that works.

~~~
kop316
Ahh sorry, I missed that.

What may be easiest for you is actually to use Xposed. I think that can allow
the signature spoofing needed for MicroG.

~~~
archi42
I used NanoDroid - worked quite well :) I'd still prefer to build a LOS with
MicroG integrated, but it's difficult to get the required information from the
folks at xda-dev...

------
qaute
"I tried replacing Android with Lineage OS on a old phone I had. Whilst that
meant I didn’t have any Google Apps on my device, it was still Android
underneath. Also many apps kept complaining that I didn’t have Google services
on the device."

An alternative is to install microG [1], which reimplements assorted Google
services. YMMV, but I've been able to run ~70% of all Android apps with no
problems.

[1] [https://microg.org/](https://microg.org/)

~~~
kingosticks
What's the best hardware supported by microG? My current phone is not
supported and while my previous one is, it's an original Moto G; I don't think
I could handle returning to those specs, not to mention the ageing battery.

~~~
commoner
MicroG supports all Android devices, but requires manual installation.

LineageOS for microG (which is a pre-built ROM) supports all phones that are
supported by LineageOS. A full list of these phones can be found here:

Sorted by device age, with pictures and specifications: [https://piotr-
yuxuan.github.io/choose-a-new-phone/](https://piotr-yuxuan.github.io/choose-a-
new-phone/)

Sorted by model, with LineageOS version and build day (view on desktop for all
columns):
[https://www.lineageoslog.com/build/scheduler](https://www.lineageoslog.com/build/scheduler)

------
tambourine_man
I use an SE too. I wish Apple would sell a smaller version of their newest
display, camera and chip.

------
billfruit
What about iOS being a walled garden? Moving to a proprietary OS isn't going
to safeguard the interests of data security in the long term.

Also see the rich custom rom scene for Android phones, with highly active
communities building rooms for even phone models long abandoned by their
manufacturers.

~~~
UncleEntity
> Moving to a proprietary OS isn't going to safeguard the interests of data
> security in the long term.

They did say in TFA (or perhaps another comment) that Apple uses privacy as a
marketing jab against Google since they don't really want all your datas to
sell ads.

Which does seem to hold true in practice, their newest crypto-chip thing they
can't access even if they want to, going to the mat to against the FBI and
various other instances over the years.

------
thebruce87m
I wish people would stop using the term “overpriced”. If it was overpriced,
then Apple would lower the price or stop selling it. Apple set the price. They
determine if the price is correct based on their sales numbers, not your
perceived value of the Bill Of Materials for the phone.

~~~
Thriptic
Agreed, I've even had apple fanboy friends rage about the price of apple
hardware and then go right out and buy the latest thing. If you're willing to
pay sticker price for a product, it is clearly not overpriced. If you want the
prices to drop, stop behaving like a price insensitive userbase.

------
diminish
I won't ditch Android for Apple. Apple is restricted, Safari is a tragedy for
the web and prices are too expensive for the value.

Somehow I dislike everything Apple represents, and reminds. The design, the
simplicity which comes from restrictiveness. Even the lightest Linux window
manager like i3wn, is better than all of os/x does.

I will just wait till a true open source option comes.

~~~
kevq
Simply install Firefox and your problems are over. That's what I do on my
iPad, and what I intend to do on the SE when it arrives.

~~~
robin_reala
Firefox on iOS still uses the system WebKit. I disagree with the premise that
Safari is a tragedy for the web though.

------
ac130kz
The best thing about Android is that you can change it (Huawei is useless).
Acquire root permissions and any app can be deleted. There is also an option
to install a fully free and open source Google Services implementation (if you
need them so much). Finally, notifications are caused by vendor specific
problems, clean Android is fully functional.

------
amaccuish
This guy was a saviour. I was poking round his blog after reading this, and
found his review for elementaryOS where he mentions how to get the system tray
working. I've been searching for months to get it working.

------
pseudoandy
I remember when Ubuntu tried making a mobile phone OS( Ubuntu Touch ), but it
never was a commercial success. I was extremely dissatisfied to hear about
Google and their phone upload requests. It makes me question whether Android
is a good choice after all( not that I agree with Apple, either ). That is the
problem with modern-day tech, there is not enough choice in the market.
Everything is either bought out or choked out by larger, dominating
manufacturers, i.e. Google & Apple.

~~~
fit2rule
I would use Ubuntu Touch tomorrow if I could.

I think there's still an opportunity for such devices.

~~~
jammygit
I installed ubports a year ago on a nexus 5 and it ran great. The only reason
I switched to lineage was for authy and anki. They really did give up too soon

------
SubiculumCode
After my old cell phone broke and just after I bought a new desktop computer,
my newer cell phone broke bad right after warranty. It was hard to justify
another outlay of money so I bought a Nokia 3310.

Pretty close to a dumb cell phone. For the most part nothing in my life got
worse. It isn't that hard to ditch a real smart phone..well if your life is
spent in front of a computer for your job anyway.

However, the Nokia 3310 is not a good dumb cell phone. The text messaging
application is broken for messages for group messages and and multiple
messages from the same person in a row. Basic stuff. Text messaging with the
old style number pad entry is really as horrible as we remember. Surely there
are better alternatives for key entry on a dumb phone in this age. Despite
this, it does its job as a cell phone. It almost always has a charge, and it
gets reception where my old cell phone would not, and despite its size you can
always hear its ringer. So there are pluses. It does contain a web browser and
3G connectivity. I can use its web browser to read HN, and I do pretty
frequently, but on most sites the formatting is always horribly wrong.
Clicking a link frequently takes you to a different address than was clicked.

------
komali2
I can't go to Apple because it's clear they never again make a phone with a
headphone jack, and I require a phone with a headphone jack.

------
xte
Personally I've ditched Google services (like GMail and contacts) from a
little while, however I do not find any viable alternatives to Android not as
a phone, not as a limited mobile MUA but as a personal navigation devices.

I tried both FOSS PND and classic TomTom's/Garmin's etc, none of them while
having few strong points can really beat GMail (for now).

I hope Purism can create a FOSS phone but I'm not too optimistic since many
tried it and fail, including many with far more resources than Pursim but for
now change a jail for another only for background traffic it's not worth my
money... I simply choose an economic device (MotoG 4G) and stick with it as
long as it will work...

------
ChrisRackauckas
Honestly, who really cares that much about what smartphone you have these
days? You have one with a good enough battery and the same apps as anyone
else, and the speed is all fast enough to not notice. At this point the
technology has converged.

~~~
beatgammit
Yup. I just bought a $250 Moto X4 to replace my Nexus 6 and it feels faster.
My Nexus 6 cost $450 a couple years old, and my new phone was new.

I don't see any reason to pay $1000 for a phone these days, and I probably
could have gotten the same experience from the Moto G at $200.

I just want a phone that:

\- can last the entire day \- can run a browser reasonably well \- has decent
reception \- will get security updates for at least 2 years (expected lifetime
of batteries)

I don't need a fancy camera, next-gen graphics, or super high DPI screen, I
just need a phone that's reasonably reliable, and even the bottom tier phones
are more than capable.

~~~
jefftk
For me the camera is the main thing: smartphone cameras have been getting
really good. Examples of my phones:

2017, Pixel 1:
[https://www.jefftk.com/pictures/2017/20171228_091058.jpg](https://www.jefftk.com/pictures/2017/20171228_091058.jpg)

2017, Galaxy S6:
[https://www.jefftk.com/pictures/2017/20170312_123314_030.jpg](https://www.jefftk.com/pictures/2017/20170312_123314_030.jpg)

2014, Moto X: [https://www.jefftk.com/pictures/2014/stevie-lily-
ball.jpg](https://www.jefftk.com/pictures/2014/stevie-lily-ball.jpg)

2011, Galaxy SII:
[https://www.jefftk.com/images/2011/all/IMG_20120115_202514.j...](https://www.jefftk.com/images/2011/all/IMG_20120115_202514.jpg)

------
mettamage
Really in line with my own thinking. I bought an iPhone SE 6 months ago for
the reasons he stated. The one thing I dislike is that you don't have a Finder
type of functionality. But there are some 3rd party apps that do it well
enough (I think one was called Documents).

Also it is easy to find a protectable huge case for these phones since they
already exists for eons in the digital industry. I sometimes drop my phone in
front of people to see what they are missing: the absence of broken screens.

~~~
barnabee
The Apple app "Files" (which might not be installed by default) may be of
interest as Finder-like functionality - it lets you browse, search and manage
files stored on the device, in iCloud and in 3rd party services (Dropbox,
Google Drive, FTP/SCP via an app like Transmit, etc.)

------
brownbat
Based on the stated concerns, data sent to Google, bundled apps that can't be
removed...

And given the author's interest in FOSS...

Really interesting Lineage failed. He claims apps kept nagging about the lack
of Google app support. How pervasive is that? Could he have just found a
couple app alternatives rather than throwing them all out at once?

It's hard to disentangle whether the problems we have are with our phones,
with the OS, or with the app ecosystem.

(Quick edit for clarity.)

~~~
ocdtrekkie
As someone who also tried Googleless Android before giving Android a kick to
the curb, it's often specific service clients with no alternative. Like I
needed Skype, and despite Microsoft being a Google competitor, their app
didn't work without Play Services.

And with security being key to me, I'm not interested on depending on a third
party hack with all my sensitive data.

~~~
brownbat
Makes sense, thanks for that insight.

Yeah, helping third parties engage in signature spoofing does sound far from
ideal.

------
marcus_holmes
I bought a Pixel 2. It had Google system apps, not Huawei system apps.

My last phone was an iPhone 6 plus. It had Apple system apps that I couldn't
uninstall.

I don't get it.

------
orliesaurus
I was hoping the author was going to list alternative stable mobile OSes with
privacy and users in mind, or maybe lay down the reasons for starting a
project hard forking an existing OS or something...but he literally just said
he wants to move to iOS???

Honestly, (and personally) I feel better knowing that I am running an Android
ROM with publicly available code on Github than any iOS any day

~~~
rapnie
I think /e/ ( [https://e.foundation](https://e.foundation)) promising in that
respect, and in the longer run maybe puri.sm Librem5.

------
markhopkins
"Most of the bloatware on Android devices I’ve used over the years cannot be
removed as they’re marked as system apps."

I believe you can use the Application Manager in Android to disable any of
these Apps, even though you cannot remove them.

Just don't disable an App the phone actually needs.

------
Apotheos
Had the same problem with my S9+, battery would just drop throughout the day.
I ended up disabling a bunch of Samsung apps and trying to find the others
that were giving me wake locks and now I can happily say I get almost two
days, with 6 to 8 hours of screen in time.

------
dplgk
The "ditching Google" guy can't find a way to stop using Android Pay or Google
plus? Using Google plus means your still 100% in Google's ecosystem. These are
also 2 of the easiest things to stop using.

------
Latteland
Google does let you turn off location tracking and web search history and I
believe them. Apple has a much higher walled garden, do you have to trust them
completely? I am on Android and have considered this.

------
NicoJuicy
I see a pro Apple sentiment here for privacy, just my 2 cents.

Apple is constantly raising their prices ( asp ) and they won't share unit
sales in their next stock report.

So I'm curious what this will do for the future.

------
sergiotapia
I made the opposite move last month. Ditched my iphone 6+ and went with a
Samsung Galaxy S9+.

Apple soured me with their bullshit around throttling the CPU to make the
battery last the same. No wonder my phone was performing like shit.

But here's the bad news, this new phone I got is still not so hot. I still run
out of battery despite working from home and only using the phone for google
maps and calendar/slack when I'm out of office. I don't game on it or
anything.

For my next phone I want to find a much more inexpensive phone, swappable
battery, with a long-ass battery time. I would go with a Nokia but I don't
know if their classic phone supports google maps.

~~~
hso1
I managed to get Google Maps working on my Nokia 3310 3G

~~~
lvalenta
Did you? How long was it loading? :-))

------
swozey
He missed the thing that's getting me really close to leaving Android after
being a devout user since the G1 (with a short 3-5 month stint on an Iphone
6). I really, really dislike IOS and I absolutely don't want to be more tied
to Apple than I am with my MBP and Hackintosh (technically I'm just tied to
OSX right now).

RCS (the Android attempt at iMessage) is STILL not a real-world thing. Txt
messaging and MMS on Android is still an absolute joke. My Samsung S8 has,
what, a 12-megapixel camera (I never look at these specs anymore) that can
take incredible pictures and videos but if I want to send them to someone I
have to jump through a bunch of hoops. Upload them to dropbox, share it, send
my friend the link, hope they click it vs it just playing in their messaging
app.

If I send that video via text message it gets compressed to a 500kb blurry
mess. I frequently have to explain to people that Androids don't take terrible
pictures, my phone takes amazing pictures. The problem is when I send them to
you I'm limited to the maximums of text messaging because phone providers
haven't rolled out RCS. It also doesn't help that the Snapchat app back when I
used to use it just took a screenshot of our camera app. That further shouted,
"Android sucks at pictures, what a peasant phone!"

Tmobile has RCS now but it only works between Tmobile Android users who are
using the stock messaging app. They might even need a recent phone with a
specific version of Android, I'm not sure there. They rolled this out in June
2018. 2018! How long has imessage been around? And I still have never seen it
actually kick in because 90% of the people I txt are on iphones. I also HAVE
to use the built-in Messaging app to get this because the RCS API wasn't (not
sure if it is now) public so other messaging apps couldn't send over RCS. If I
use the Samsung messaging app then I lose the web messaging feature that the
Google Messaging app gives me. The Google Messaging app is terrible, though,
it doesn't even have the ability to click a person's name and see all of the
media shared between us like the good messaging apps do. I have to literally
scroll and scroll and scroll to see a picture that I've been sent.

There are all these tradeoffs just for messaging. Do I want an easy web
experience so I don't have to pick my phone up every time I get a text? Then I
lose the file library when you click a contacts name. Do I want RCS? I'm not
even sure which Messaging app to use for it. It's either Samsung Messaging or
I need to download Tmobile messaging.

I don't follow it but I don't believe ATT/Verizon are even going to roll out
RCS, I believe they have their own implementation coming (somedayTM). Unless
their "Advanced Messaging" is just RCS. Will that work with Tmobile users? Or
will it just be between ATT customers?

I have plenty of other complaints about Android lately. Privacy, per-app
notifications are a mess.

I LOVE the customization of Android and the lack of it is what I dislike about
IOS but I'm to the point where I just want a smooth UX.

edit: Before I get the "Use Whatsapp/etc" that's just not an option. Google
Hangouts was SOMEWHAT ubiquitous between my friends a few years ago and was
great but if I'm taking pictures of my house for a contractor, or shooting
pictures of my Jeep offroading to random Jeep friends and what not I'm not
going to go "Are you on WhatsApp?" each time. I know these limits are because
of carriers and not Google/Android specifically.

~~~
j605
If you have a smartphone, people invariably have one or two messaging apps in
my experience. If it is not Whatsapp then it is something else. You need to
figure out what everyone in your circle is using and switch to it or resort to
sending blurry SMS. I've found sharing google photos links is much easier
since it backs up anyway.

~~~
davidgould
> If you have a smartphone, people invariably have one or two messaging apps
> in my experience. If it is not Whatsapp then it is something else

Yes, it's called iMessage.

------
rurban
I would rather use Sailfish on a Sony Xperia then. Privacy, cheaper, faster,
longer battery life. Can also install Android apps.

------
agumonkey
Maybe efforts should be redirected to google-free android based OSes
(postmarket, or the right-now-quantic copperhead ...)

------
Teknoman117
I'm hoping SailfishOS is in a good state for OnePlus 3 when it looses official
support from OnePlus.

------
jasonvorhe
It's rather common knowledge that most vendors that aren't Google or Nokia put
a load of crap ware on their devices that can't be removed. Duh.

He also hasn't really ditched Android yet, since his iPhone hasn't even been
delivered yet.

I don't get the point of this blog post.

------
JimGuns
I am not sure how people are figuring this out now. It's only common sense
given googles business model and their history that your android phone is
nothing more than a tracking and data generation device. I am sure Apple has
it's flaws but Google uses Android to double down on selling your info.

Be smart, pick up an old Blackberry 10 device and use its Android emulator.

~~~
slothtrop
How do you feel about the android-based blackberrys?

~~~
JimGuns
I heard they are pretty good and are a bit more secure, but the underlying
system is still android.

~~~
archi42
The problem is not Google itself, the problem are the Google Services coming
with every phone (often plus two Facebook Apps, plus Instagram, plus some
manufacturer specific stuff - mine was spamming me once a month with "Why
don't you buy a new theme for HTC Sense"). As mentioned by me & others, you
can replace those with MicroG, though YMMV.

------
luord
> I’m never going to completely get rid of Google, that’s impossible at this
> point

And here's the crux of why I just don't bother, then again it's not really
that big of a deal to me that I'm the "product".

I'll probably regret it some day, but I'm hoping that I won't.

------
chmln
As they say, when there's a will - there's a way.

The author clearly did not evaluate all of the alternatives, and simply jumped
from one walled garden to another.

Bloatware, adware, and battery life are cited as his reasons. But he could
have rooted his phone in 5 minutes then deleted all the bloatware and google
apps in an instant. Add microG and adaway on top, and you have a nice ad-free
system with much better battery life.

All he had to do was research.

~~~
philjohn
> All he had to do was research.

And that's the problem. One platform offers, mostly, sane defaults with strong
privacy guarantees and no bloatware, the other requires you to invest time and
effort, first to research, then enact.

~~~
chmln
> strong privacy guarantees

This can change any day. And if you think that's impossible, look at Windows
or Google Chrome. Most users just will happily trade privacy for convenience.

> the other requires you to invest time and effort, first to research, then
> enact

This is classic learning curve = bad. Rust is also harder than JavaScript, and
Vim is harder than Notepad. What matters is whether its worth it.

Some people don't see a problem with being at the whim of a megacorp and not
having true ownership of their devices. That's normal. After all, Chrome and
Windows have huge marketshare too.

Putting all the eggs in Apple's basket is near-sighted at best.

~~~
philjohn
> This can change any day.

It can, but seeing as Apple have staked the farm on running things locally and
respecting privacy as a USP it's doubtful. I'll take "privacy protecting
today, but maybe in the future I'll have to switch" over "I'm the product" any
day of the week.

And yes, a learning curve CAN be bad. There is so much conflicting information
in this thread alone that shows shorting the wheat from the chaff is not easy,
and at best people might buy into snake oil solutions, at worst be in a less
secure state than they otherwise may have been before.

------
jraph
What I want to be able to do with a phone:

\- calling

\- texting

\- taking pictures

\- occasionally recording sound

\- music

\- directions

\- occasionally, an alarm clock, a calendar and notes

\- web surfing is a nice to have and I use it now that I have it.

\- the ability to run a Debian Chroot and an X server is a nice to have.

Lineage 15 (soon 16) with latest updates, without Google apps does that
brilliantly well, and I get a solid 6 to 10 days of battery life.

No emails (but k-9 mail works well if needed, and the webmail too), no chat.
Chat would be possible (and I will probably want that in the future) with many
applications like Signal, Riot, Conversations, maybe even WhatsApp (I haven't
tested - not interested).

Directions with OsmAnd gives me great offline functionality, allowing for a
2€/month phone plan.

I get all notifications I want in a timely manner, which are texts and calls.
No more.

edit: Oh, and installing apps without the phone needing any email address.

On iOS, I would not have such a freedom.

Next step: a blob-free phone, or no phone at all.

