
How to Kill the Toxic Ego That Will Ruin Your Life - omilu
https://thoughtcatalog.com/ryan-holiday/2016/06/25-ways-to-kill-the-toxic-ego-that-will-ruin-your-life/
======
rabidrat
Overall this article has some really good advice. But I have come to realize
that a violent stance--"fighting" to "kill" a "toxic ego"\--reinforces a
separate, negative part of yourself, and it becomes stronger, subtler, and can
eventually become another kind of ego on its own. Ego is all about division
and separation, and to truly diminish its hold, we have to take another
approach: to embrace it (but not to indulge it), to understand it, to invite
it to tea.

In today's egotistic world, we need to cultivate a healthy ego, so that we
don't sacrifice ourselves to unworthy causes. Ego is an important
psychological tool that, when wielded wisely (with intention and awareness, as
the article points out), can be very powerful and positive. We just need to
make sure that we're in the driver's seat and that we don't let it take over.
And especially that we don't come to believe that our collection of ideas
about ourselves _IS_ ourselves; as long as we remember that it's just a game--
a mask, or a shield that can be dropped at a moment's notice--then we'll be
okay.

~~~
danielbigham
This year for whatever reason I keep seeing the concept of "integration" in
everything, and have also become interested in what feels like the opposite --
division and separation -- so when I read "Ego is all about division and
separation", it really piqued my curiosity. Could you elaborate on that?

~~~
rabidrat
You can't have a "self" without reference to an "other". When you say to
yourself "I am a good programmer", it must be by comparison to all the other
not-good programmers.

There is a subtle but very important difference between discernment (taste)
and judgment (comparison). Discernment is about the integrated
relationship/system or the impersonal action/outcome, rather than the
actor/person/self. It is not just a semantic coincidence that framing things
in "I" language tends strongly towards judgment.

[I've reflected a lot on this topic but I'm not very good at expressing my
understanding. Hopefully the above is helpful for what you were asking.]

~~~
tracker1
It doesn't have to be a zero sum comparison. One can be "good" at something so
long as the goals are met.

~~~
rabidrat
It doesn't have to be, and yet, when we do the comparison, it usually is. Why
is that?

~~~
tracker1
Try explaining anything without comparing it to something else.

------
eplanit
2 articles on the HN front page have "toxic" in the title. Indeed, "toxic" was
the Oxford dictionary's 2018 word of the year[1].

We're sheep.

[1] [https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/word-of-the-year/word-
of-t...](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/word-of-the-year/word-of-the-
year-2018)

~~~
elefanten
Why stop there... we all speak a common language to begin with! How mindless
and desperate.

------
motohagiography
The article includes this tendency to equate ego with what is essentially a
secular state of sin, instead of looking behind what ego might be. The view
reinforces the just world fallacy that good things happen to good people, if
only they could be without ego - and failure can be attributed to said ego's
conceits.

It's too much to unwrap in a comment, but suffice it to say, while some of
this can be helpful to someone in need of it, one would not be alone if they
found it cynical and trite.

~~~
tracker1
Thank you... wanted to say much of the same. I think it is all part of the PC
movement to virtually castrate all aggression (mostly in men, in women it's
fine). You need a certain amount of ego in order to lead. And yeah, confidence
is not the same as ego but they are definitively interconnected. You need to
display confidence to convince people to follow you, and you need a bit of ego
to secure that confidence.

And some may say, but that's not the point where it is "toxic" but several of
the samples in TFA are not counter or even in demonstration of where it might
or might not be a toxic level. Even in communist/socialist societies the
successful demonstrate an amount of aggression, ego and confidence. It's human
nature. When it coincides with competence all the better.

------
PedroBatista
I know this article is just marketing content to sell a book, but it would be
nice for the author to fully present at least one of his "exercises" for one
of his bullet points.

I wonder how much of these "traits" (?) are just how some people are and they
can't do much about it no matter how they try.

------
crimsonalucard
Ego like many other human traits exists because it helped us survive. Every
trait you possess no matter how negative it seems exists because it passed the
filter of natural selection.

Ego blinds you to the darkness and weakness of yourself. We lie to ourselves
to create a delusion that keeps.us moving forward.

~~~
lm28469
> because it passed the filter of natural selection

That alone doesn't tell much, you can still judge the value of any trait
independently of natural selection.

Evolution didn't keep up with technology during the last decades. We don't
live in small communities with strong bonds, sleep in huts, hunt, &c. anymore.

If you say "we evolved to be like this" and "everything evolved is right"
there is no place for any kind of argument to be made.

~~~
big_youth
Modern society doesn't' change the fundamentals of human behavior and needs.
Per your example we still need a community with strong bonds, a diet of lean
proteins and greens, and a dusk till dawn sleeping pattern to function
optimally.

~~~
lm28469
I'm sitting 8+ hours a day in front of a glowing rectangle. Evolution didn't
do anything to help my body accommodate that. All I get is back/neck pain,
short hamstrings, hampered digestion and a shitty posture.

Sure I still need to sleep and eat, but that's about it. We're talking million
of years of slow and incremental changes dictated by environmental constraints
VS 200 years of exponential technological almost entirely tweaked for
convenience.

Look at obesity, diabetes, back pain epidemics ... clearly most people diets /
lifestyles are not matching what evolution engineered them for.

> Per your example we still need a community with strong bonds, a diet of lean
> proteins and greens, and a dusk till dawn sleeping pattern to function
> optimally.

To "function optimally" yes, but even without that you can live very long,
reproduce &c. A few thousands of years ago you'd just die.

------
SolaceQuantum
I have some concerns with this article's advisement. It essentially boils down
to stay humble, proactive, and aware. But certain kinds of advice are entirely
unnuanced, for example, "dead time" vs "alive time" may mean that someone
really needs the rest! Similarly, focusing on effort and not the end goal is
not always amenable to reality- it doesn't matter how much you worked at a
startup if your stocks ultimately end up shitty.

Of course, this article aims to kill ego, not actually enrich the person's
life. Killing one's ego can also ruin one's life just as easily as an ego too
alive.

~~~
ryanackley
Doesn't most advice like this lack nuance? That is what makes it easily
consumed and processed. We attach our own rationalizations and perspectives to
it.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
Yes; this doesn't make the article above discussion of its merits.

------
cicero
> 10\. Connect with nature and the universe at large... 18. Choose love.

Even better, seek the creator of the universe and the source of love. Many
people come to the conclusion that since science has enabled us to understand
so much about how our universe works, we can jettison the idea of a creator.
However, the contingent nature of our universe and everything in it requires a
cause that is not contingent, and religion, especially Christianity, has been
telling us about that non-contingent cause for centuries. I urge people to
seek out that cause by looking to the testimony of the generations of good
people who claim to know this cause.

~~~
unmole
> Even better, seek the creator of the universe and the source of love.

Is it the same non-contigent source of love that loves us so much that created
hell and just in case we don’t love it back?

> testimony of the generations of good people who claim to know this cause.

The same good people who also claimed that we would burn for all eternity if
we didn't nod along to their delusions of grandeur?

~~~
cicero
The dull man cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this: that, though the
wicked sprout like grass and all evildoers flourish, they are doomed to
destruction for ever ... The righteous flourish like the palm tree, and grow
like a cedar in Lebanon. They are planted in the house of the Lord, they
flourish in the courts of our God. (Psalm 92:6-7, 12-13)

This world is full of injustice, but the message of Christianity is that
injustice is temporary and justice is eternal. Every man has a choice between
eternal life and eternal death. God wants life for everyone - that is why he
gave each of us life. He gave us the ability to love, but we also have the
freedom to hate. Heaven is eternal love; hell is eternal hate. You get to
choose the path you want to take.

~~~
unmole
> the message of Christianity is that injustice is temporary and justice is
> eternal

The message of Christianity is that having faith in the blood sacrifice and
reanimation of a savior figure is enough to receive pardon for all of one's
inequities. I don't see what _justice_ has to do with anything to do with it.

~~~
cicero
Maybe you should learn some serious theology rather than a caricature and then
you would see what justice has to do with it. I would suggest St. Augustine or
St. Thomas Aquinas.

------
debt
Ego flourishes in situations that have room for it.

In dire situations and extreme circumstances, ego really is a killer because
time is precious and is wasted by ego. Thus killing not only your ego, but
also the project itself, other people’s ego, careers etc. Ego in a dire
situation is like a pressure cooker.

So the best way to kill the ego is get yourself into extreme circumstances;
BASE jumping or insanely unrealistic project deadlines etc.

------
throwaway30193
The majority of those talking points are solidly rooted in Buddhism, and
especially Zen Buddhism.

Perhaps that sounds too "hippy" to their readers, but doing a bit of research
and quoting the original sources would be nice.

------
HellDunkel
constantly worrying about improving and optimizing yourself. is this feeding
or fighting the toxic ego?

