
Banned math book - ColinWright
https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2020/07/22/banned-math-book/
======
nahuel0x
In Argentina a military governor from our last dictatorship banned teaching
Set theory because it was a "collectivist idea" and was "against the
individual". You can learn more here (spanish):
[https://www.nexos.com.mx/?p=3404](https://www.nexos.com.mx/?p=3404)

Specifically, they banned the book "Conceptos básicos de matemática moderna"
(Modern Maths Basic Concepts) / Hernández-Rojo-Rabuffetti

~~~
new2628
To be fair, the "new math" of the 60s deserved that.

~~~
082349872349872
If you disliked the new math, you'll detest Linderholm, _Mathematics Made
Difficult_

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3693042-mathematics-
made...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3693042-mathematics-made-
difficult)

~~~
new2628
I saw that a long time ago, it is hilarious.

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zdw
What's the copyright status on this book?

It's surprising to me that a new copy still costs $150 in 2020, when it was
published in 1924, and both authors passed away 45+ years ago, and are thus
unlikely to be "promoting the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

~~~
bombastry
The answer to this question is somewhat complex and depends on the country
whose copyright laws you are talking about. Most copyright-abiding countries
have adopted a copyright length of Life + 70 years, but several (most notably
Canada) use Life + 50 years. However, there are a lot of exceptions in many of
these countries regarding works created in the mid-20th century. The US,
incredibly, has a copyright of 95 years for works published between 1924-1977,
but a term of Life + 70 years for works published after that.

Since the beginning of this year, the original German edition of the book that
was published in 1924 is in the public domain in the US (and most likely only
the US). Unfortunately this applies only to this edition and not to any
translated versions.

I looked around the front matter of the book and did not see any mention of a
translator; presumably this means that Courant translated this himself. This
means as soon as 50 years has elapsed from Courant's death (in 1972), all
editions will be in the public domain in Canada and a few other countries (in
2023). In most other countries, this book will be in the public domain 20
years later than that (in 2043). The US is once again exceptional, where each
edition will enter the public domain separately, 95 years after their
publication. The English version of Volume 1 of this text in the Amazon
preview appears to have been published in 1953, which would mean it would be
in the public domain in 2049, well after it would be available in virtually
every other country in the world.

Of course, all of this discussion above assumes that copyrights don't get
extended again before these works enter the public domain. The US Supreme
Court has ruled that arbitrarily extending copyrights before they expire is
sufficient to satisfy the "limited Times" mentioned in the Constitution; what
matters is apparently that the copyrights are set to expire at some point, not
that they ever actually do.

~~~
bobcostas55
Someone could produce a new, free version from the now-liberated original
German though.

~~~
TomMarius
Someone with GPT-3 access could give it a go - it is able to translate, right?

~~~
snazz
GPT-3 guesses the next word or words after a given input, allowing it to write
articles that make at least some sense. Translation of a textbook (especially
math) would be way out of its wheelhouse.

~~~
bobcostas55
[https://www.johnfaben.com/blog/gpt-3-translations](https://www.johnfaben.com/blog/gpt-3-translations)

Or check section 3.3 in the paper:
[https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.14165.pdf](https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.14165.pdf)

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Mugwort
Hilbert and Courant is BY FAR the best mathematical physics book in existence.
No contest. Boas and all the others are good, even very good. H & C beats them
by a kiloParsec.

~~~
tikej
New edition of Arfken, Weber and Harris is great!

~~~
salamanderman
Hildebrand "Methods of Applied Mathematics" is the most approachable math text
I've read. After hearing me express confusion about various topics that my dad
thought were straightforward, he gave me his book from when he was in college,
and yes, things were suddenly straightforward.

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JackFr
I like the detail that Hilbert asked what a Hilbert space was. Reminded me of
hearing that Planck never called it Planck's constant, either using simply 'h'
or 'the constant'.

~~~
wadkar
I couldn’t understand the anecdote. What did hilbert think of the space? The
author doesn’t say anything!

------
cf
I'm fairly sure Courant was persecuted for being Jewish. Other biographies are
pretty clear on this and I can find no reference to what political party
Courant belonged to in Germany.

~~~
ranko
Wikipedia has, at
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Courant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Courant):

Courant left Germany in 1933, earlier than many Jewish escapees. He did not
lose his position due to being Jewish, as his previous service as a front-line
soldier exempted him; however, his public membership in the social-democratic
left was reason enough (for the Nazis) for dismissal

~~~
082349872349872
Apparently one thing nazis and german communists could agree upon, both in
theory and in practice, during the early thirties was that the social-
democratic centrist/moderate alternative to either extreme had to be
destroyed.

(I left off reading Weil around this point. I'd get back to it, but find
political systems without a healthy number of major parties rather depressing
subjects.)

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082349872349872
Does anyone know exactly where the ban was published?

I haven't found it under either Courant or Hilbert in either

[https://sammlungen.ulb.uni-
muenster.de/hd/periodical/pagevie...](https://sammlungen.ulb.uni-
muenster.de/hd/periodical/pageview/2540067)

or

[https://sammlungen.ulb.uni-
muenster.de/hd/periodical/titlein...](https://sammlungen.ulb.uni-
muenster.de/hd/periodical/titleinfo/2539679)

(Note the font change between 1935 and 1938, clearly showing I was in the
wrong on
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23446057](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23446057)
My bad!)

------
kkylin
For anyone who wants to know more about Courant’s life, the people he crossed
paths with (which include some of the great mathematicians of the 20th C), and
how NYU came to have the Courant Institute, Constance Reid’s biography is and
nice read.

------
heraclius
Initially I suspected that the most likely reason was that the _Deutsche
Physik_ babble
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik))
somehow had got out of hand, but evidently that wasn’t it.

------
john4534243
This is nothing compared to Hinduism's varna system(caste system), where the
entire society is split in to 4 groups and learning to read and write is
banned to the bottom 3 groups. Even the skills of one group is prohibited to
be learned by the other.

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tgb
I do dislike the phrase "banned book" because it doesn't indicate _who_ banned
it, which is all that matters. In this case, the Nazis over the author's
political affiliation (to save you from the click bait title).

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
Is there another phrasing you'd recommend?

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kergonath
Any phrasing that includes some context: where, when, and by whom. How
significant a ban is very much depends on this. I have no interest in reading
an article about a book banned in Saudi Arabia, for example. Nazi Germany is
not too far in the “countries in which a book being banned is utterly
unsurprising” list.

~~~
tgb
Exactly. And a book shouldn't be listed as a "banned book" because one overly-
cautious librarian decided they shouldn't have it in a school. You wouldn't
call something "illegal" if it were illegal just in one country for a brief
period of time. And 'banned' is used as a badge of honor - in this case it
really has nothing to do with the book content either.

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abraxas
We got lucky that the nazis banned and expelled legitimate science and
scientists on political grounds. This ensured that their science progress
stagnated thus preventing them from acquiring nukes in time to change the
course of the war.

~~~
solarhoma
I’m not sure developing nuclear weapons by any nation was a good thing. We
would be better off without nuclear weapons and the MAD associated.

~~~
hilbertseries
Hard to say, nuclear weapons have also prevented WWIII so far.

~~~
ezoe
I strongly doubt that. It's the global supply chain that prevent the another
WW.

~~~
hilbertseries
You think the global supply chain is what prevented outright war between the
US and Russia during the cold war?

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KKKKkkkk1
From the post:

 _I wondered why the book was banned. Was Courant Jewish? I’d never considered
this before, because I couldn’t care less about the ethnicity of authors. Jew
or Greek, bond or free, male or female, I just care about their content._

John, you start a post about Courant's Jewishness by denying that you have any
interest in his Jewishness. This conveys the sense that being a Jew is dirty
and should not be brought up in polite company. Don't do this.

~~~
dang
" _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone
says, not a weaker one that 's easier to criticize. Assume good faith._"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

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leptoniscool
This is eerily similar to today's world, where countries like India banning
apps because it started in another country..

~~~
Avicebron
I don't think banning tiktok because it works as spywware for the Chinese
government is the same thing..

