

New Core i5/i7 MacBook Pros released - yan
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/?

======
jboydyhacker
Nice to have i5/i7 but the NVidia GPU is somewhat terrible. An ATI 5xxx series
is not only more power efficient which Apple cares about, but much more
powerful. No IPS screen or USB 3.0 which you sorta want given the premium
status of mbps. Jobs commented that MBP would go to a "new level" this year--
this isn't quite new level so I would guess another update in the fall. SSD
upgrades also not as useful since no TRIM support. Still the sexiest laptop
out there tho so what can ya do but give Steve your money?

~~~
whalesalad
One reason I like my nVidia chip is that the Adobe creative suite (Photoshop
CS4, and I'd assume CS5) takes advantage of the GPU to take load off the CPU.
I'm not a gamer though, so I don't have anything to share in that department.

Link: <http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15571>

~~~
jboydyhacker
Yeah but they could have at least done more memory on the GPU if they were
gonna do a 330m. And if you are gonna stick with Nvidia why not do a NVidia
335 which has been out a while now.

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l0nwlf
A brief history of 15" PB/MBP screen resolution: Oct'01-1152x768,
Apr'02-1280x854, Oct'05-1440x960, Feb'06-1440x900, Apr'10-1680x1050 - finally!

~~~
pw
But it looks like 1680x1050 is $100 more. 1440x900 is still the default
configuration. The 1680x1050 screen is offered in both "Glossy" and
"Antiglare", though.

(PS: Is "Antiglare" just Apple's marketing term for matte?)

~~~
jonknee
I'm surprised Apple's marketing team uses the name anti-glare as it makes the
default configuration seem like the glare version. Matte doesn't have that
connotation.

~~~
jcl
However, implying that "anti-glare" is better makes it easier to justify
charging an extra $50 (for something that used to come standard on all
devices... grr).

~~~
astrodust
I like how they charge $50 extra for what is essentially removing the plastic
screen protector cover that causes all the "glare" in the first place.

A "matte" MacBook Pro has an exposed screen, no black border where the plastic
cover is mounted, and looks almost perversely naked.

------
mark_l_watson
I bought a new laptop recently: i5 Toshiba, 4GB, 0.5 TB. Also plays blu-rays.
It cost just under $800. There is no near match with Apple's new lineup, but
roughly the Apple tax is about 50% and for those of us who mostly boot Linux
the price difference is just not worth it. I must say though, that for
developers who live in OS X, the new i7 MBP 15" does look great.

~~~
ryoshu
I have a Studio XPS 16 on the way (RGBLCD @1920x1080). It was about $1500
after coupons and it blows these MacBook Pros out of the water (a lesser
configured MBP runs about $2300). Apple's actions last week had me ordering
the Dell Friday morning.

~~~
AlisdairO
Arent you lucky to get a couple of hours battery life with those? That would
drive me nuts.

~~~
ryoshu
If I can get 3-4 hours I'll be happy. It will be my new mobile workstation
that I can use at the office, home and sometimes while travelling. I have a
Vaio i3 14" if I need to do extended work, but the lack of resolution and
smaller keyboard on the Vaio doesn't lend itself to long coding sessions.

My last hacking laptop was a Vostro 1500 with a 1680x1050 resolution. The 9
cell battery lasted about 4 hours while coding, so I carried two of them. I
may do the same with the Studio XPS 16.

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mike-cardwell
But will these new Macbooks play flash without overheating and making the fan
spin up to max? Can't even watch a 2 minute Youtube video on mine without it
going mental.

~~~
cjbos
Have you tried the new 10.1 beta?
<http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/> apparently it's meant to
solve a few performance problems for Mac users... would be interesting to hear
any feedback from a Mac user.

Edit: Forget this comment, didn't realize until now that hardware acceleration
for video decoding was not coming to the Mac, just the PC. That sucks.

~~~
mike-cardwell
I tried the beta about a month ago. Made no difference to the fan problem, but
it did leave a string of text in the middle of every video. I can't remember
what it says as I've not got my macbook to hand but it normally disappears a
few seconds after a video starts in the non-beta version.

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ihodes
Any way to find out what "solid state drive" they've got? Is it Intel's X2?
That'd make a big difference in how much I'd want to spend/how much time I'd
want to spend installing my own.

~~~
jbellis
All of apple's SSDs are Samsung, by a large margin the worst on the market.

<http://it.anandtech.com/show/2829/19>

~~~
9oliYQjP
Not only that. I've been a Mac user for almost 10 years now but I'm waiting
for them to add TRIM support to OS X before taking the SSD plunge. Everybody
using an SSD on OS X should understand that its performance will degrade more
quickly than on another modern OS. It's quite disappointing to me.

~~~
generalk
For those curious as to _why_ performance will degrade quicker on OS X:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM>

Just had to look that up myself. Shocking that OS X doesn't support it
natively, although the article suggests there may be utilities that can
replace that functionality.

~~~
enterneo
Intel X-25M has TRIM support in the controller itself, and thats the way it
should be I believe

~~~
9oliYQjP
Unfortunately while there are strategies to mitigate the problem in hardware,
proper TRIM support is still best. You might be getting confused by the TRIM
enabled firmware that was released in December '09 for that SSD? It just means
that the Intel drive will obey TRIM commands from the OS. But if the OS
doesn't send any commands, which OS X won't, then you're not taking advantage
of TRIM. For what it's worth, if you were going to choose a drive that would
degrade the least in performance without the use of TRIM, you probably chose
best with the Intel X-25M. But it would still perform better over time in
Linux or Windows 7.

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davecardwell
If you go to customise there are new display options on the 15" models -
[http://store.apple.com/uk/learnmore/MC371B/A?group=macbookpr...](http://store.apple.com/uk/learnmore/MC371B/A?group=macbookpro_display_15)

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antidaily
Only in 15". the 13" are c2d.

~~~
enterneo
Is there really any difference between 13" MBP and 13" MB apart from unibody?
(and is it worth the price difference?)

~~~
cypherdog
The macbook pro 13" is worth the money for the unibody alone. I own a 13MB and
the white plastic case is cracking in more places then I care to mention. I
got them to fix it once, and only because it was their fault. They just don't
hold up build quality wise. The only negative part about the unibody is my
wife doesn't like the feel of the metal, it gives her the willies, but I can't
fault Apple for that one.

~~~
gbookman
The regular MacBook is also unibody now and seems to be pretty close to the
MBP in terms of build quality.

~~~
acgourley
Yeah, the white unibody has a very nice build to it; it doesn't seem like it
will crack. But only time will tell.

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seltzered
So, I priced my MBP out to around $2500 bucks, and a somewhat similar Lenovo
T510 to $1869.

I was thinking about getting a mac really just to have the option to do mac
desktop application development. Would I be better off with a hackintosh setup
instead?

~~~
zefhous
I don't have hackintosh experience but here are my thoughts.

\- The trackpad. You won't be able to use gestures and multi-touch features.
Especially if you use some software that lets you add custom multi-touch
gestures, it's really nice to have a huge trackpad with gestures.

\- Battery life (and longevity) will almost certainly be significantly better
on a MacBook Pro.

\- Apple's support is pretty great. If you have any hardware issues Apple will
take good care of you. Sometimes you have to push for it, but I've had a 2
year old computer replaced with a new one because they couldn't fix a
relatively minor WiFi issue.

\- The MacBook Pro displays are really good and viewing angles are much better
than most PC displays I've seen. You can optionally bump up the resolution of
the 15" MBP to 1680x1050 for $100.

\- Backlit keyboard — I thought I wouldn't really care about it, I type in
Dvorak anyway so I don't need to see my QWERTY keyboard, but this is actually
really nice in low-light situations.

\- I've also read that there's a lot more that makes Mac hardware fast than
just the tech specs. The hardware is well tuned.

A lot of these are little things, but they add up and make for a really good
experience.

~~~
jimbokun
"it's really nice to have a huge trackpad with gestures."

This is one of the most important usability features on my 13in. MBP. It's the
first track pad I've used that I prefer to a mouse. I think it's mostly
because you don't have to keep picking your finger up to scroll a long
distance on the screen. Also, multi-touch gestures have become second nature,
especially in Safari (3-finger swipe for forward/back is even better than
keyboard shortcuts).

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mmagin
I'm assuming that they didn't put the better processor in the 13" due to
thermal or battery requirements. Sad, I would really have liked that config.

~~~
alanl
I was wondering that myself. I have been holding off upgrading my 13" MB for
the new line MBP. Now I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and shell out
the extra couple hundred for a 15".

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martythemaniak
Looks like a nice upgrade.

One thing I really wish they would change is the clicking on the trackpad -
instead of a heavy hinge at the top, it should be equally and easily
depressable everywhere (for example, like the BB Storm2 screen). I don't know
if I could use my macbook without turning on touch-to-click.

~~~
carterschonwald
i think the hinging probably increases the overall expected lifetime as the
pad, 'cause then theres fewer degrees of freedom where friction wear needs to
be accounted for, but this is only personal speculation/experience

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grk
Is there any reason to be excited about the new CPUs? I'd say that the high-
res display on 15" and better battery life are more interesting.

Also, any info if the graphic cards switch automagically or you have to log
out?

~~~
jrockway
In my experience, the i7 is ungodly fast. A linux recompile is about 20
seconds on my box.

Unfortunately, it's the i5 that has crypto acceleration. The i7 does about
80MB/s/core, and the i5 does something like 2000MB/s. But is slower otherwise.

Fucking Intel....

~~~
petercooper
I can't speak for the mobile models but on the desktop, i5 vs i7 is a wash for
most tasks with only a few percent in it.

~~~
Anon84
How so?

~~~
petercooper
Toms Hardware did a reasonable roundup:
<http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i5,2410.html>

On the media apps, the i5 beats the equivalently clocked i7 on most of the
benches. On the productivity section, the i5 is equal to the i7 on 2 of the 5,
and beaten by 10-20% on the others (those that seem to feed heavily on the
hyperthreading and extra cache of the i7). Notably, though, the i5 and i7 are
a wash in the Photoshop test (a key benchmark for the sort of things I do).

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Tichy
Not Apple's fault, but I have troubles with the naming schemes of the new
Intel CPUs. Somehow if a CPU is called Core i5 or Core i7, I expect it to have
5 or 7 cores respectively. I take it that isn't the case?

~~~
Anon84
These current incarnations have 2 cores. I'm a bit disappointed that Apple
didn't go for the 4-core i5/i7, though.

~~~
jrockway
Probably because the top-end TDP is 130W for the i7. That has a tendency to
lead to low battery life.

~~~
wmf
The _mobile_ i7 quad-core is 45W. Apple doesn't make desknotes.

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yread
Any idea how come the battery is so huge and so light at the same time? 78Wh
for a battery that doesnt protrude from the case is a lot

~~~
philwelch
When you remove the constraint that the battery has to be user-removable and
user-replacable, you get to choose battery sizes and shapes that are a lot
more impressive.

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jrockway
Seems like I replied to the wrong article:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1261802>

Anyway: Very expensive. Why not go for a netbook and desktop instead? Are you
really so mobile that you're willing to pay $1000 to get less hardware?

~~~
AlisdairO
Absolutely. The netbook user experience is horrifying. My laptop does
everything I need, so why do I want a desktop?

~~~
jrockway
Desktops are less expensive, upgradeable, more powerful, and quieter. And you
can setup a more ergonomic work area than with a laptop (unless you like a lot
of peripherals hanging off your laptop, which kind of defeats the purpose).

If you must work from a coffee shop, just bring your $300 netbook and ssh into
your desktop. Why bring a noisy and hot laptop that only lasts for 4 hours
when you can have a silent machine that lasts for 14?

Desktops are great for power. Netbooks are great for portability. Laptops are
bad at both.

~~~
AlisdairO
My major bugbear, I guess, is that a netbook has a crummy, tiny screen. I can
live fairly happily without dual head for coding, but I find netbooks'
screen/keyboard/slowness unbearable.

My laptop has enough power for my day to day needs (running web browsers, dev
IDE, mail, and not taking forever to compile large tex docs), and for my
larger needs, well, I need a 32GB RAM server for those, so I wouldn't have a
desktop that could handle them either :-). Unless I'm really caning it, it
doesn't make a sound, and all I have to do to turn it into a workstation is
plug in a USB hub and monitor - not exactly a chore.

In terms of portability, my macbook is light enough for me to easily carry
around, and in practise I get around 5-6 hours battery life even after a
year's usage. If I upgraded to a newer macbook (I have one with a removable
battery), I'd get closer to 10.

I completely agree about not buying a bad laptop. I have no interest in
lugging around a behemoth that gets two hours battery life, or one that trades
weight for being too slow for my everyday needs. A good laptop (and I'm not
_just_ talking about macs here, although I've had extremely positive
experiences with mine) is powerful, light, and has good battery life.
Unfortunately, you have to pay extra for that, but considering it's my only
work-related expense, it seems cheap at the price. I love not being tied to my
desk.

~~~
jrockway
I've never noticed, as I use xmonad and don't really worry about screen real-
estate. I started using a Windows 7 netbook, and you're right, the tiny screen
makes things difficult. The solution is to not use Windows :)

~~~
AlisdairO
I've never used windows on a netbook. My eyes aren't so great, so I tend to
run slightly larger fonts than most people would, and the amount of
information I can get on screen at once just isn't reasonable. I can't imagine
trying to use Eclipse (say) on it.

In general, I just wouldn't consider a netbook suitable for doing a day's
coding on - it's great for short term use, or if all I need is a couple of
terminals, but it just doesn't have enough power or usability. That said, if
it works for you, then great! I imagine it probably comes down to how much
time you spend at your desk - if you're largely in a fixed location, then I
see that having a powerful laptop just isn't worth the money.

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bmalicoat
I have a fall 2008 unibody MBP that requires a complete logout to switch
graphics cards. Anyone know if the ability to switch on the fly requires
hardware or will it make its way back down to older owners via a software
update?

~~~
tdmackey
It's a hardware thing, so no. Surprisingly though it isn't Nvidia's Optimus
switching stuff but rather some proprietary apple concoction.

~~~
avani
I had to fact-check this because some sites (including Ars) are incorrectly
reporting that Apple does use Optimus.

Here is a link from Apple Insider discussing Apple's graphics switching:
[http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/04/13/nvidia_says_ne...](http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/04/13/nvidia_says_new_macbook_pro_graphics_switching_isnt_optimus.html)

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rmoriz
So many say the SSDs delivered by Apple don't perform and recommend Intel
SSDs.

But when you need 256GB or 500GB there's no choice, right?

~~~
wmf
SandForce is available in 200GB and 400GB and is as fast as Intel. If you want
512GB you definitely don't have many choices.

------
jcromartie
I _just_ got a new MacBook about two weeks ago.

Edit: My employer paid for it, so I'll probably stick with it.

~~~
booticon
This should help you in the future: <http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/>

~~~
rlm
Except that they have been saying "Don't Buy - Updates soon" for the last
three months.

~~~
wtallis
If not for the iPad launch, these laptops would probably have been released in
February, so saying "Updates soon" for three months is about as much as could
be expected.

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davidedicillo
The Apple Care will expire this summer, I think I'll hold up until the fall to
see if they introduce USB3

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sz
No USB 3?! Hello, Thinkpad.

~~~
astrodust
You buy your notebooks based entirely on one connector? You must have a lot of
USB 3 devices your livelihood depends on.

~~~
sz
No, I was torn between the W510 and the then-unreleased macbook pro update.
Now I'm not.

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quellhorst
Is SATA 6gbps supported?

~~~
wmf
No.

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hackermom
Has anyone come across performance tests between nVidias older 9400M chip and
their new 320M chip?

I find it interesting that the 13" models now tout a "10 hour battery", up
from the old 7 hour one - I am curious to find out if it's all caused by
replacing the old 9400M north/southbridge with the 320M, or if there is also a
new battery behind it. A 45% increase in estimated avg. battery time is a
pretty damned nice number for any laptop user.

~~~
borism
looking at specs new battery is 63.5Wh vs older model's 60Wh

~~~
hackermom
Meaning the 320M is a whole lot more power efficient than the 9400M. Thanks
for the numbers.

