
Ask HN: If you were a coder who successfully changed careers, what do you do now? - Throwaway123212
I can&#x27;t fathom sitting in front of a computer writing code for the next 3 decades.<p>Any ex-programmers here? What do you do now? What credentials or qualifications do you have if any?
======
PaulRobinson
I'm back in coding, but I wasn't for a while. For a while, I was in
management, and ended up a CTO. Twice.

If you find yourself not enjoying writing code, then perhaps it's not the
perfect job for you. It pays better and is perhaps more fun than manual labour
and cleaning jobs, so have a think about what your pain points really are, but
genuinely: if you think you'd prefer to be a farmer? Go be a farmer. You'll
probably hate it, but at least then you'll know.

I came back to coding because one day I wrote two lists of things about my
job: 1. Things I like doing about my job. 2. Things I hate about my job. At
the time I was a startup CTO and so was doing some code and architecture stuff
as well as meeting investors and doing the finance and strategy stuff. All the
coding stuff was on list 1. All the business and strategy stuff was on list 2.

I quit that day, and took a job as a senior dev. Don't regret it, but find it
difficult to bite my tongue around managers and even CTOs or CEOs I think have
got it wrong. I'm trying though.

I learned to code when I was 11. I thought I was rubbish for a long, long
time. I had constant imposter syndrome. But it was only when I left the coding
gig I realised that it was something I loved doing, was actually not bad at
it, and that the alternative was just mindless games and niceties dressed up
as strategic planning.

Go do something else, if coding is for you, you'll find yourself being pulled
back to it all the time. If it isn't, consider stuff that plays to your
strengths, and challenges your weaknesses in a good way.

~~~
xxSparkleSxx
> It pays better and is perhaps more fun than manual labour and cleaning jobs.

No offense, but these are not really great comparisons for someone with the
aptitude of a programmer. I don't really understand the point you are trying
to make with that statement.

OP could go to an accelerated nursing program for a year, not sit behind a
desk, help people, be mentally stimulated, and make six figures (at least in
the bay area).

Plus tons of other career options.

~~~
brookside
I believe there are pre-reqs for nursing school (including biology and
chemistry) before one could enter an accelerated program. I realize most
people on this board already have those.

~~~
Throwaway123212
I don't have a bachelors, which I expect is a requirement, but this is the
kind of suggestion I was looking for.

~~~
SaintGhurka
Nursing does not require a bachelors degree, but does have a few prerequisites
that you could polish off in a semester or 2. There are 1-year (LVN or LPN)
and 2-year programs (RN) at many community colleges. RN pays better, of
course.

I've thought a lot about dropping out of programming to do it, but my mom
dissuaded me - she recently ended her 30-year career as an RN.

~~~
Throwaway123212
Yeah, it's definitely hard work, I have a lot of respect for nurses. Something
to think about, thanks.

------
caser
Used to be a programmer.

A few years ago, started Hacker Paradise, which is basically a travel company.
We organize trips around the world for people (mostly in tech) who want to
work remotely while traveling.

I came from a background of startups & some freelance web dev, and my co-
founder was a senior software engineer. We didn't have much experience in
travel, but we both had some experience organize events & managing community
(running hackathons in college, etc.).

Interestingly, after 3 years of doing more operational / community work, I'm
moving back towards spending more of my time programming and tinkering with
hardware. My old co-founder already made the switch and is back working as a
software engineer.

I think the takeaway for us is that there is no panacea. There are some fun
parts about operational & community work, but it also ends up being pretty
admin-heavy. After awhile, knowledge work becomes something that seems like a
lot of fun again.

My $0.02 - doing the same thing (regardless of what it is) for 3 decades
sounds boring! Feel free to make the jump to something else, but be open to
coming back to software or jumping into other areas as well.

------
dotBen
Product Management is a great path for software engineers who already have a
curiosity for what goes on before and after code is written in their
organization. _(to be clear, I 'm referring to product-management, not
project-management)_

I transitioned from eng to PM in my mid-twenties when I realized I was good
but would never be an excellent software engineer.

I later did a stint as a Director of Engineering and to this day my experience
of engineering is helpful both as a (former) startup founder and now VC.

I prefer to hire product managers who have an engineering background, who can
work seemlessly with an engineering team and understand what they need to do.

If you want to explore this area see if your current employer will let you
work on some PM tasks (building use cases and user stories, defining user
profiles etc) or just read up on the subject want try to inject some learning
into your current dev process.

~~~
sage76
I was checking public profiles of product managers on linkedin, and there
seems to be a preponderance of ex-consulting + MBA guys in Product management.
Very few engineers breaking in without an additional degree, generally an MBA.

What do you suggest to engineers looking to switch to a PM role?

Also, is there any difference in upward mobility for PMs vs Engineers who want
to become engineering managers, especially at the big 5 tech companies?

~~~
dotBen
I don't have a degree in anything _(including CS, which is probably why as a
self-taught programmer I reached a ceiling - but that 's another
conversation)_.

When I worked at Uber, a CS degree was a soft-prerequisite for all Product
Mangers (they hired me, they hired a few other people without CS but it was
rare). I hear Google is the same. At Uber I also saw a couple of Sr Engineers
switch to PM.

In terms of suggestions, I would focus on where you already work and see if
they have interest in helping you switch to the PM track. There's lots of ways
an engineer can straddle the two and begin to do some PM tasks.

I don't know if there's any difference in mobility between PMs and Eng
Managers. I would say that generally there are fewer PM roles in an
organization than Engineers so that is something to consider, but good PMs are
always highly sought after.

------
module0000
I wrote code for 13 years before changing. These days I earn income trading
futures on treasury bonds, albeit, with a heavy reliance on programming. After
being put in touch with some experienced people, I turned their "systems" into
automated algorithms. The rest, as they say, is history.

Credential wise, the only addition has been a Series 3 commodity broker
license. I'm not a broker, but I'm required to hold the license to operate the
algorithms using other people's capital.

------
awjr
I'm going propose that the HN crowd is self-selecting to a point. If you are
still involved in software, you will be on HN. If you are now a gardener or
shop keeper, you are unlikely to be reading HN.

But as somebody that has been sitting in front of a computer writing code for
the last 26 years professionally (and coding since the age of 10, 37 years
ago), I simply love the challenge and that you "learn something new everyday".
If you cannot see yourself in front of a computer in 30 years time, then you
will most likely not be. What you will end up doing is very much down to you
and the opportunities that fall into your lap.

------
marcoperaza
I quit my software job a year ago now. I loved the company, I had smart
colleagues, and the pay and perks were great, but the line of work just wasn't
doing it for me. I suspected as much when I started college, but decided to go
with software anyway because I had enjoyed coding as hobby since I was 10, and
the market for tech jobs was strong.

Now I'm starting law school next month. I've had a lifelong interest in the
law and public policy, and conflict motivates me, so I think it's a good fit.

I don't think of my two years as a software engineer as wasted. I learned a
lot about a great industry, and there's a very good chance I'll practice some
kind of technology law. Cyber security law and policy is hot and is only going
to get hotter.

If you are interested in this path, you should know that the job market for
lawyers is nowhere near as good as for engineers. Going to a well-ranked law
school, or being at the top of your class at a middling law school, is very
important. It's too late to change your undergraduate grades, but you can do
well on the LSAT, write a compelling personal statement, and get good
recommendations from former professors and managers.

~~~
Throwaway123212
I should have put it in the post, I don't have a bachelors degree. I've had
one lawyer say I should try to ace the LSATs and apply anyway but that seems
like long shot.

I think theres also a path to becoming a patent agent without a degree but I
get the impression people who do that are pretty exceptional as well.

~~~
kodis
I had a (not particularly exceptional) coworker with an electrical engineering
degree go to work for the patent office. One of the perks was that the patent
office would pay his way to becoming a patent attorney in return for a few
years of service.

------
brookside
This isn't a direct answer to the question, but if you are coding
professionally (in the USA at least) it shouldn't be necessary to work for 3
decades. If you think you will burn out, optimize your life for getting off
the treadmill early.

reference: [http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-
sim...](http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-
behind-early-retirement/)

~~~
leipert
Well, the linked calculator seems bogus (at least for me here in Germany). It
assumes that the income is AFTER taxes. Let put some numbers in:

Given I am a programmer in Germany And I earn 4000€ (above avg.) before taxes
[1]

That means I will have around 29000€ after taxes and other social charges [2]

Now if I only spend the bare minimum (9000€) [3], I can save 20000€ per year.

Now I am able to retire after 9.5 Years according to calculator. This seems
right, as if I still want to live off 9000€, but guess what: The living costs
(even if I do stay single, live in the same small flat and never do any
vacation) rise with the years.

Now you could argue, that a saving rate of 68% might be too much, but even if
you decrease the saving to 10000€ per year, you are working around 25.2 years
which is plenty of time to burn out...

[1]: [https://www.gehaltsvergleich.com/gehalt/Programmierer-
Progra...](https://www.gehaltsvergleich.com/gehalt/Programmierer-
Programmiererin)

[2]: [https://imgur.com/a/IArku](https://imgur.com/a/IArku)

[3]:
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundfreibetrag_(Deutschland)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundfreibetrag_\(Deutschland\))

~~~
brookside
Can I ask why do living costs increase with years? I believe the general trend
is people having less expenses after they retire.

The calculation in the link takes into account inflation, so that (massive)
aspect of increased expenses is included in the prediction.

Edit - If indeed you are planning to increase your living expenses after
retiring (bigger living quarters, more expensive travel, etc) that would
certainly lengthen the amount of time of work needed to achieve financial
independence.

------
rurban
Trained in a lot of other jobs.

Worked as architect, movie critic, civil engineering, radio host, radio
manager, race engine engineering (F1), and back to coding. It makes the most
fun. I knew several others from my town with similar jumps. As architect you
are trained as generalist and can do everything. Another architect colleague
also worked in F1 engines, others did race boats or went to the Olympics.

~~~
erdle
if you can succeed in an architecture program, you can eventually work in just
about any field, by brute force alone.

------
bryondowd
Not sure if I count, but I'm a soon-to-be ex programmer. Transitioning from
writing software for the FAA's air traffic control systems to being an actual
air traffic controller. Dev to user. Fingers crossed on the successful part,
but I would be shocked if it doesn't pan out at this point.

------
hebejebelus
It depends on how you classify "successful" :)

I quit my job in order to hike every trail in Ireland with my girlfriend and
make videos about it:
[https://www.youtube.com/toughsoles](https://www.youtube.com/toughsoles).
We're not making a profit by any means - so, not successful in that regard.
But we are seeing the country that we belong to, and I think we're slowly
raising awareness about the incredible places that exist tens of kilometres
from people's front doors.

~~~
notDavide
Hey, very cool project!

As someone who is pondering about doing something like this in the future, i
just watched some of your videos.

If I may, i want to give some suggestion. The first one is: consider adding
some background music, for example when showing the landscape or walking
otherwise it feels a bit empty. The second one is about the format: i think it
will help you doing it as a sort of 'daily vlogging'. In this way you do not
have the problem of having too much footage around as you mention and also it
helps to convey a sense of story, even if it is just waking up - walking -
eating - walking - going to sleep. It may also be a more watchable format for
your followers if the videos are shorter.

Hope it helps you, keep up your adventure and good luck!

~~~
hebejebelus
Hey, thank you!

Appreciate the feedback. We'd never even edited a video before we started
walking, so we're definitely still figuring out what we're doing, creatively
and even just in terms of using the tools. It's also a function of doing it as
we're walking - often we just don't have that much time to put a video
together (very short backlog). I think that the style of our videos differ
from one to the next - some with music or montages, some with very vlog-style
cuts, and so on. For instance the Cavan Way video
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvOQU_ZWoWQ&index=1&list=PLX...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvOQU_ZWoWQ&index=1&list=PLXZ2XoQbpHBi0zYnUdNJTfZGR6oKqalkg))
is quite different from the One Second Per Kilometre video
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXJvOvkJbcM&index=6&list=PLX...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXJvOvkJbcM&index=6&list=PLXZ2XoQbpHBi0zYnUdNJTfZGR6oKqalkg))
:)

We do more than just the videos, too - we keep a pretty active
Instagram/Facebook account, and write much more in-depth blogs on
[https://toughsoles.ie](https://toughsoles.ie). It's hard not to be
overwhelmed by the work and the newness of it all :)

Thanks again for the feedback! It really helps. Our audience is so small still
that it can be hard to get honest, uninvested feedback.

------
trjordan
I'm a marketer in tech. My latest gig is VP Marketing at Turbine Labs
(turbinelabs.io, check us out!). I prefer to work on products that would have
been interesting as a programmer.

My qualifications at this point are just my resume, but at the point I made
the transition, I had to no reason to believe I would be successful. There
were 3 key ingredients that helped me out:

\- I switched from dev to sales at a company that had a strong sales
organization, but where my product was a total unknown. I could be a subject
matter expert on day 1, which mitigated my total lack of knowledge about how
to do sales.

\- The product I worked on sold to developers. It wasn't hard to talk to
people who were my former colleagues.

\- I had a mentor within the company who pushed me hard to try to new things.
He constantly told me things like "What's good for you is good for the
company" when we talked about different roles.

For me, the biggest signal that it was time to switch is that felt there was
something more "important" than writing code that I was always relying on to
be successful. This was personal: I felt that I couldn't write code well
unless I thoroughly understand why the problem existed and the backgrounds and
interactions of the user. It turns out I really wanted to work on figuring
that stuff our, which is somewhere at the intersection of Product Management
and Product Marketing. Marketing just fits the rest of my personality better.

~~~
iampims
Why did you leave turbine? It sounds like it was a very nice career
progression from being totally new to sales.

~~~
trjordan
Oh, sorry, I just joined Turbine! They're fantastic :)

The company where I transitioned was Tracelytics / AppNeta. AppNeta acquired
Tracelytics and that was part of the forcing function for making the leap.

They're a great company, but I left in 2015 because my wife got a job on the
other side of the country and after 5 years with the same team, I had an itch
to start a company. If we had stayed in Boston, I probably would have stayed
at AppNeta, but sometimes the job isn't the only thing going on.

------
swayvil
I was a successful coder for a few years. VB and java.

I watched myself and those around me rot, in body and mind. That is some
fucked up morlock shit right there.

These days I'm a handyman. Carpentry, plumbing, painting. Stuff like that.

I still work on my own software projects. Art stuff.

~~~
reitanqild
But still on HN?

~~~
swayvil
No man, that's a cheeto-induced hallucination

~~~
reitanqild
Don't get me wrong. I just found it weird as I thought if I personally wanted
to quit tech I'd want to stop reading HN as well.

------
iajrz
As far as I can tell, transitioning out of coding is much the same as
transitioning into coding.

Look for something interesting to do, start doing it, educate yourself in it,
and start trying to get paid for it. Learn the rules of the game you want to
play.

You may want to become an accountant, for instance. There are clear steps to
doing that.

I daresay you should first find a destination, so you can then look for the
steps needed to get there.

------
SyneRyder
There's a few past threads on this that you might get some info from:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10036460](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10036460)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2882619](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2882619)

I found the 3 decades possible though. Started as a little kid, now in my late
30s and still writing software. But if you're not enjoying coding, definitely
find something else. Life is too short to spend it doing work you don't enjoy.

------
danso
I majored in journalism and computer engineering. Started out doing
traditional news reporting and eventually (because of the onset of the
Internet and the web) got back into programming and web development, but for
news organizations.

I don't know if I can say I've gotten out of coding, though; my current job is
teaching journalism and programming at a graduate program. Wouldn't mind going
back to a programming-heavy job, though it probably wouldn't be software or
systems engineering.

------
goalieca
If I won the lottery, I would go back to school and study biomedical devices
probably. Back to physics, electronics, medicine, signal processing, and real-
time low-level firmware.

I studied engineering and I want to be an engineer again. I loved doing
research and with lottery winnings, I wouldn't have to worry as much about the
academic rat race.

The software world is taking over domains that used to be electronics. Web is
replacing low-level systems. "Agile" is replacing "engineering".

------
dzink
You have to know what you love about coding - Why do you do it? Ex: for
exposure (your work gets seen), for competing with yourself, for recognition
by peers (open source maybe), for most money for your family, etc. I got
burned out coding on stuff that I found less meaningful and transitioned to
the product side where my coding skills gave me a very unfair advantage
against competition and peers alike (I could build what just became possible
by reading APIS). I found myself wanting to code for fun and after 2 years
went to get an MBA at a top school while coding my first startup at the same
time. My brain loved learning all the intricacies of Finance, VC, Patent Law,
and anything else that can help or hurt entrepreneurs, while my hands were
hammering on product. Now I code almost full-time on my startup. I code in a
language I didn't know a year ago (Go) and the speed of it gives me so much
joy to work on it, compared to others - it makes coding fun. Find out your
Whys, and you may realize that coding is not sitting for 3 decades, but power
to bring to life previously impossible things (or just things other's didn't
think of) that can improve the lives of people anywhere on the planet.

------
michaelbuckbee
Respectfully there are two separate things here:

1\. The notion that 'coding' is exactly what you're doing now.

I think that doing actual development varies far more widely between roles,
company sizes and verticals than in other careers.

As an example: in my programming career I've done everything from work with
Navy SEALS (handheld athletic training software) to attend rock festivals
(making sure scheduling software stays up and working) to some AR.

I have a friend that makes robotic control software for nuclear plants and
flies around the world collecting stories of people who have seriously messed
things up. Another friend works at a big bank as one of a floor full of people
doing something insanely boring with credit cards. They both seem happy. They
both are developers. Their lives could not be more different.

Coding doesn't have to mean 40hrs a week in a windowless office and all of
those roles varied between 20% to 60% coding (at a rough estimate) and if
you've only ever worked in a large company it's crazy how different building
even building your own apps/services can even be.

2\. Switching careers.

I've always really liked Scott Adams career advice to try and be the top 25%
of two different subject areas:

[http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/care...](http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/career-
advice.html)

Being a developer is a great '1st skill' because it mixes so well with nearly
everything else in today's society. So, I'd say don't abandon it (or your
knowledge) but try to pair it with something you find more interesting.

~~~
Throwaway123212
Sensible advice. All the positions I've held have been specialized enough that
all I do is write code. There are designers, managers et al being paid to do
the other half. I believe there are other opportunities where that's not the
case, I went out of my way to look for them during my last job hunt but come
up empty. I had no problems finding a bunch of codemonkey-SWE jobs. Seems to
me that programmers are fairly specialized and replaceable in most orgs.

I'm not opposed to another technical position. Something that leverages my
skills to do something more dynamic would be great.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
I think much of it functions around how small the team is: if you're in a
larger org you're likely to be more specialized. My own career has been spent
in smaller orgs where I've had a much greater say in how I do things and the
types of work I'd like to do.

------
shakna
I started in web, moved to computer forensics for the challenge. Died a little
inside, lost faith in humanity.

Moved to law, passed the exam.

Got sick (MS), so came back to code, where the ability to walk/drive is less
important, currently in research on compilers.

------
MattPalmer
Around 2003 I was a chief technical architect at a startup. We had to secure
access to the products and I realised I had no clue. I read Security
Engineering by Ross Anderson and was hooked. Went on to do a Masters in
Information Security while still coding, and gradually moved into the security
field.

I still spend a lot of time with developers, currently doing a lot on
integrating security with continuous deployment and agile projects.

I was talking with a developer recently, who said he loves coding, so that's
why he does it for a living. I replied that I also love coding, and that's why
I don't do it for a living!

------
EADGBE
What bothers you about it? The 30 years part?

Start planning now, and you could theoretically cut that down to 10 or 15. Is
it a better plan now?

Maybe you need to live frugally to enjoy the life you want after programming;
and you possibly don't need the 30 years of work to get there.

I'm currently a developer with a partial degree in fine arts. All the
experience and rank I gained through work and promotion.

Honestly, the plan is to do this for about 5 or 10 more years while my spouse
and I build our real estate business; then just maintain those, while doing a
lot more interesting stuff, like Fine Arts.

------
mxuribe
I was a former web dev., and transitioned into project and product management.
I'd like to transition back to dev work for the next decade or so...but
eventually as I close in on retirement, I wouldn't mind moving to working on
hardware for electric motorcycles...basically create the Tesla of motorcycles
- both for high end luxury as well as for the everyday/how-can-i-get-the-
cheapest-cycle-to-safely-commute-to-work-in.

------
meik
Penetration testing now. That's what I wanted to do as a high schooler more
than 15 years ago.

Started as C/UNIX dev, but as a way to find a "first job" because I needed $$.
I did this for around 3 years.

------
pragone
I'm in medical school

~~~
sedeki
I have been thinking about going that route as well. How and when did you know
it was the right choice for you?

~~~
pragone
I did EMS in college, so I had some patient care experience. I started working
as a software engineer in Manhattan right after college. I was working 9-5
days, M-F in an office and just couldn't stand it. I missed being outside, and
I missed being with patients.

I probably could have shopped around and found some place that worked well for
me, but I just wasn't sold on writing software for a lifetime.

Edit: Let me add this: One of the biggest headaches I found in day-to-day life
in the office was the lack of self-improvement. I missed being challenge not
just with new material, but with what my colleagues were learning as well.
There was no real drive for self-improvement in the officeplace, no real
interest in spending anytime outside of work to learn and get better, and I
missed that aspect of school and medicine.

I'll also say that I probably thought seriously about quitting medical school
30 or 40 times in the first 2 years. Now that I'm on rotation and actually
interacting with patients full time again, I'm in love.

------
pault
I've thought about switching, but I am self-educated and there's just no way I
could make six figures doing anything else, so I keep on keeping on.

------
madza
Currently CFO of a mining company.

Started with degrees in cs and then decided to get a cpa after too many nights
in a lab.

It was an interesting change, but it took a bit of time...

------
rodiger
Many move into business/management roles.

------
Neliquat
I repair cars for fun, and do what might best be filed under odd jobs for
profit. I live in a rural area, and having a lot of skills puts me in demand.
I haven't seen an ide in years and it brings me peace.

