
International visitors are already turning their back on Trump-era America - lemming
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2017/02/i-m-banned
======
darshandsoni
Hardly surprising given that international travel, especially for leisure is
exceedingly sensitive to perception of the news. It takes a long time to build
up tourist numbers, but a small incident can cause the sharpest falls
immediately.

But I'd argue that even before the Trump administration, the USA was immensely
difficult to travel to for anyone in a country that's not part of their visa
waiver program. USA is one of the few places to require a transit visa even if
you only connect at one of their airports and visa arrangements have
exorbitant fees attached to them. They have a perception abroad of having
stressful border control - even so for Canadians who arguably enjoy the
easiest access to the US compared to any other country.

It certainly doesn't help to have higher minimum salaries for work visas and a
possibility of being kicked out after completing a degree on study permits,
which affect business and student visitors respectively. And finally, dealing
with American companies from abroad can be a huge resource commitment as you
often have to adopt American standards and clearances in parallel to other
internationally adopted schemes or your own local one. But for a long time,
the costs justified the prospects of visiting, simply because of the access
you get to American markets. With Trump adopting "America first", a lot of
people will just not bother deal with travelling to the USA anymore.

------
coldtea
> _But there was a bigger concern: “Will the decree—easily interpreted as a
> deep hostility to the world beyond America’s shores—put off global
> travellers?” Two weeks later, it has become clear that the answer is yes.
> Hopper, a market research firm, looked at online searches for flights into
> America, comparing the final weeks of the Obama administration with the
> first weeks of Mr Trump’s presidency. It found that these searches had
> declined by 17%._ The overwhelming majority of countries studied showed a
> drop in interest. The most notable exception was Russia, which has been
> accused of meddling in November’s presidential election in Mr Trump’s favour
> and colluding with members of his team. Searches for flights to America from
> Russia increased by 88%. The overall 17% decline, Hopper found, was much
> larger than the 1.8% drop that occurred between the same two periods a year
> ago, leading the company’s top data scientist to tell the Los Angeles Times
> that it is “hard to see any other short-term significant events that could
> be related,” other than Mr Trump’s assumption of the presidency and his
> travel ban.*

As far as fluff pieces go, this is one of the fluffiest. A mere 2 weeks after
the decree, based on internet searches and no actual numbers, not controlled
with anything (except last year's results), and with the bs hint at Trump as
"russian led" \-- whereas an explanation (assuming the numbers are correct" is
much more obvious: that a President who is not openly cold-war hostile to
Russia might bring in more interest for tourism from there.

~~~
phreack
I can assure you that the general feeling in South America is certainly
doubtful, stories are coming in about families being detained and losing
connections at the airport merely for having Muslim sounding surnames and
similar bullshit, and I keep hearing about people giving up on US holidays
until things calm down... which it doesn't look like it will for a while.

~~~
HalfwayToDice
I was detained at an airport in South America and missed my connection,
presumably because I was foreign. It's just an anecdote, but so was yours.

~~~
cyberferret
Here is another anecdote [0] - a well known British soccer player was denied
entry into the US because he had a stamp from Iran in his passport, from a ONE
DAY visit he did there to open a stadium.

All anecdotal - but enough anecdotal evidence gathered together becomes a
groundswell action...

[0] - [http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/football/former-sydney-
fc-s...](http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/football/former-sydney-fc-star-
dwight-yorke-denied-entry-to-usa-due-to-iranian-stamp-in-passport-
reports/news-story/f00d0b0210cb74afc34f2e01de427ec6)

~~~
coldtea
And this has happened many times under Obama (and Bush) too.

------
lemming
Anecdotal of course, but I've travelled to the States multiple times per year
in recent years, for work and especially for conferences. I'm planning to
avoid the US entirely now since immigration there was already intrusive and
unpleasant, and it's probably about to get significantly worse.

It's a shame, because most of the conferences I'm interested in are there or
Europe, and Europe is very far from where I live. Unfortunately any measures
that get pushed through now (e.g. requiring social media passwords) will
probably take a very long time to get rolled back post-Trump, if they ever do.

------
eis
When I grew up, I was influenced by media like Knight Rider, A-Team, MacGyver
and other TV shows. Oh and documentaries about the Great Canyon and other
beautiful areas. I loved (american) English. I always had a dream to visit the
USA. Not to live the "american dream" and get rich but just to experience the
culture and scenery. During the past 10 years though this desire has
completely gone away. This is due to the political climate and disrespect for
foreigners privacy. I never went there even though I could do so easily. I
travelled all over Europe (easy, being a EU citizen) and now traveling a lot
in Asia.

I know of several businesses that have chosen not to send their staff to the
USA anymore to trade shows or clients. My company used to send someone to a
media summit every year. Last time they declined the visa for that person
without providing any reason. It makes no sense. The focus is shifting: the US
used to be the biggest market that everyone strived to cater to. Not anymore.
Banks are more and more reluctant to use USD, Euro is preferred. When I go to
a bank anywhere in the world I suddenly have to fill out a questionaire about
not being a US citizen, having no phone number there, never having lived there
and on and on. I have nothing to do with the US so why are they bothering me
with this crap? Imagine if every country requested such a thing, you'd sit
there a week answering questions. Oh and banks in Asia are starting to not
take on US customers at all from what I heard.

When even people like Adi Shamir (the S in RSA) are having issues obtaining
visas
([https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2013/10/shamir/](https://fas.org/blogs/secrecy/2013/10/shamir/)),
something must be completely wrong with the way immigration is handled.

I hope the USA can turn this ship around, right now it looks like it's heading
directly for the iceberg with full throttle.

~~~
mschuster91
> When I go to a bank anywhere in the world I suddenly have to fill out a
> questionaire about not being a US citizen, having no phone number there,
> never having lived there and on and on. I have nothing to do with the US so
> why are they bothering me with this crap?

I believe this is because IRS went down on the US sections of international
banks and fined them for their non-US sections having helped "US persons" to
evade taxes. Remember that the USA are one of the few countries in the world
that make people pay taxes anywhere in the world even if they do not have
anything to do with the US besides holding a US passport or permanent
residence.

Edit: It's called FATCA, more info e.g. here:
[http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-
finance/102915...](http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-
finance/102915/tax-implications-opening-foreign-bank-account.asp)

~~~
eis
Yes. That's exactly why the banks are doing it. I currently reside in Thailand
and when opening an account with a local Thai bank, I have to fill out this
form. A local bank, which has no branches in the US (or really any other
countries) and I'm not a US citizen nor have ever been there. Yet they get
bullied into getting me into contact with the US burocracy out of fear of
getting fined. I don't think that's ok. And it's just one example why the rest
of the world is severely cutting their dependencies on the US whenever they
can. Global scale e-spionage is another big issue.

------
craigds
Well, yeah. I've never been a huge fan of the US but would have liked to visit
it some day - several snowboarding destinations and Silicon Valley would be
nice to see, at a minimum. However I have no desire to spend my tourism
dollars encouraging a science denying, racist, regressive, aggressive and
generally delusional administration. I hope things soon change for the better.
In the meantime, there are plenty of good ski fields in Europe :)

~~~
HalfwayToDice
I wouldn't be too smug, elections in France, Germany and Netherlands are
approaching...

------
DyslexicAtheist
I backpack since 1993 and always wanted to travel the world all my life (that
includes the time that I raised 2 kids with my Japanese wife who never
questions relocating to another country every 3 years because they realized
how awesome an adventure life can be this way). Currently living in Eastern
Europe which is the most awesome place these days (my kids speak 8 languages
and us parents 5 as a result).

There is a lot of can-do here in Eastern EU compared to old-Europe. I had all
sorts of jobs including diving instructor, then deep sea saturation diver and
life support technician on offshore rigs in South East Asia. I made a boatload
of money always doing what I loved and never listening to anyone else
(especially not those who said it was better to lead a stable life in
Austria). (I look back at these people today and can only feel sorry for them
since they only know a life of fear (thanks to social and environmental
conditioning that turned them into these sad characters they are).

If I look how the US treats their people with majority of the poor and black
population incarcerated ... (and how they lock the middle class into their
system with double taxation for those who dare to try their luck overseas) ...
no thanks. The US is so badly broken that fixing it is not something that my
generation will witness in it's lifetime.

I was supposed to relocate to Boston exactly now. But I changed my mind
because I will not support this regime. My opinion is that if you are an
American citizen currently not burning your flag in the street you are part of
the problem. I would be totally the wrong person to uphold any of the fucking
hypocritic values the US expects me to subscribe to when entering that
country.

Also I threw the towel as engineering director in a Boston based Tech
incubator for the same reason. I am not siding with racism/bigotry. The only
way to have peace of mind is to ignore anything that comes out of the US as
much as possible. I also make an active effort to watch what products I buy to
ensure that as little money as possible goes from me to any US based business.

------
js8
Despite working for an American company (in Czech Republic, so we don't need
visa), I would consider refusing to go on a business trip to the U.S.,
especially since they apparently started to ask for phone and social media
passwords.

I also wanted to come in the U.S. again at least once or twice for tourism
(once with my family to visit my old coworkers at the east coast, once with my
coworkers to visit the national parks in the west), but I am also considering
that, short-term.

~~~
jrnichols
> especially since they apparently started to ask for phone and social media
> passwords.

And everyone wants to blame Trump for it, however, it started under Obama.

[http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/exclusive-homeland-security-
rejec...](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/exclusive-homeland-security-rejected-
plan-vet-visa-applicants-social-media)

(first proposed in 2011)

[http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-
shooting/mor...](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-
shooting/more-lawmakers-press-screening-visa-seekers-social-media-
activity-n480631)

[https://fcw.com/articles/2016/09/19/social-media-
immigration...](https://fcw.com/articles/2016/09/19/social-media-immigration-
esta.aspx)

[https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/cbp-fails-
meaningfully...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/cbp-fails-meaningfully-
address-risks-gathering-social-media-handles)

It's only made bigger news in recent weeks.

CBP has been digging at electronic devices for years.

[https://www.elsevier.com/connect/what-are-your-rights-at-
air...](https://www.elsevier.com/connect/what-are-your-rights-at-airport-
screenings-and-checkpoints)

however, the US definitely isn't the only country doing this.

~~~
js8
I couldn't care less which president caused the mess. I can somewhat live with
search of electronic devices - when I travel, I usually don't take anything of
importance on them, because they are prone to be stolen, lost or damaged. If I
travel for business, I don't mind electronic device search, it's my employer's
problem.

But asking for social media passwords, yeah, that crosses the line. Will they
also want to visit my apartment?

------
gotofritz
To be honest I had already cut out the US from my travels since the Patriot
Act and all that frisking

------
digi_owl
Meh, i didn't feel much need to travel there while Bush Jr was running the
circus, and 8 years of "hope and change" didn't change my stance on that.

The only thing that will is the dismantling of this "security circus" called
TSA.

------
pimeys
I'd like to see New Orleans, Chicago, Los Angeles, Portland and Seattle, but
staying out of the country until there is a more sane government. My partner
saw his family in US the last time on Christmas and is also not going back
until things get better. All my friends and family has been talking the same,
so I guess the article might be right.

------
Markoff
i am not going to visit country where they wanna see content of my phone or
laptop despite not being charged with any crime

one more reason to not visit amazing country where during transfer to third
country through US airport you must pass through immigration

------
joejoint
Personally when I book an holiday I do that well in advance (4 to 6 months)
trying to get a good deal. Most of the time cancel an holiday is expensive.
Back in October I was looking for a ski holiday and looked at Denver, what put
me off was not the possibility of Trump or Clinton be the president but the
dollar vs pound. I do believe that one main reason for the decline in this
period was the strong dollar appreciation against other currencies back in
Nov/Dec. For many holidays travellers, economic reasons count more then
political reasons when choosing the holiday destination.

Said that I'm going next week to Chicago.

------
barrkel
I was planning a road trip including an intersection with the solar eclipse
this summer with my gf, but we've put it off in large part because of Trump.
Anecdotal but whatever.

------
BrandoElFollito
I used to travel from France /Germany to the US for business about 10 times a
year, and twice for holidays. It never was a pleasant experience at the
border. Horrible in Chicago, barely tolerable in Phoenix. All of the people I
discuss this with have the same opinion, so there is I believe a core problem
with how people are welcomed to the US. I was one asked at the border why I
will be staying for two days only (with an aggressive tone), to which I
answered that I feel so welcome here that if I could squeeze everything in a
few hours I would leave even earlier, not spending my money on local
businesses. This cost me an extra hour at the airport but boy, it was worth
it. No more Us travel for me before this "you are the enemy and we do not want
you in the US" mentality changes.

------
benevol
> [...] looked at online searches for flights into America, comparing the
> final weeks of the Obama administration with the first weeks of Mr Trump’s
> presidency. _It found that these searches had declined by 17%._

I would have expected such a drop already after the NSA's various mass
surveillance programs became public knowledge.

~~~
HalfwayToDice
In the normal world, the machinations of the NSA have zero impact on the
decision of someone to visit the USA. Zero.

------
Trumpetttt
There's no way I'd visit the USA these days

------
the-dude
Me? Since 2001

