
Ask HN: How do I stop myself being toxic? - dijit
At my last performance review I was told that I engage in toxic discussion too much and I should halt.<p>The problem is, I don&#x27;t know what constitutes toxic behaviour and how to prevent it. I do have a lot of issues (very bureaucratic and slow central organisation whom I am forced to deal with) and I do bring them to light as the reason for things taking too long- If I&#x27;m blocked by the central IT body then I have no qualms telling people I&#x27;m blocked. I also take passion in my job, so I might seem complainy.<p>But, How can I make sure I don&#x27;t engage in toxic discussions? Are there any people here who have overcome toxic behaviours?
======
jknoepfler
First, to be blunt: you should have asked for a definition of toxicity when
you were presented with this criticism. Barring that, you should ask for one
now. You should ask the person delivering the criticism if they have
suggestions for how to improve. Take their suggestions to heart, and amplify
them with your own. Don't nitpick the suggestions. Don't try to show that they
are impossible, or inconsistent, or hypocritical. Interpret them in a light
that makes them make sense, to you, then act upon them to the best of your
ability.

The pattern "in my review I was called X, but I don't know what X means"
suggests an adversarial relationship with your manager. The pattern of
appealing to others outside of your conflict, rather than trying to understand
the perspective of the people you are in confict with by talking to them (and
listening) might be "toxic".

As highly generic starting points, I would suggest: 1\. Focus on speaking more
precisely, using factual rather than evaluative language. Evaluative language
("stupid", "cool", "boring", etc.) rarely serves a constructive function. 2\.
When faced with a problem, fix it, delegate it, or backlog it. Don't complain
about it. 3\. If you are blocked by other parties, establish a clear timeline
with those parties for getting unblocked. If you don't have the seniority to
do that, establish a clear timeline with someone who does for getting you
unblocked.

These are things that have helped me, anyway. I still think I'm too much of an
asshole, though.

Good luck!

~~~
rogerdpack
Good idea, I've had good luck in the past with asking management "what does it
look like if I improve?" then you implement suggestions that they give you.
Management types love this :)

------
epaga
Lean on others around you for feedback - ask a trusted co-worker to be
brutally honest with you when he/she gets the impression you are being toxic.
Tell them to approach you afterwards and make you aware of it.

Apart from this, here are a few things to watch yourself for:

    
    
      * sarcasm & cynicism
      * passive aggressive behavior
      * insults
      * loving proving others wrong and making them look bad
      * loudness / brashness

~~~
dijit
hm, I am quite loud and direct. I'll ask a colleague to give me a nudge when
I'm being too much.

Others have mentioned a book, I'll make sure I read it and I hope it helps
people's impressions of me. I just want to do the best I can and I love my
work- I just get very frustrated by people who don't want to do their jobs.

It's like driving a Ferrari in LA traffic.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

~~~
roflc0ptic
Hey, some hopefully constructive feedback here:

This sentence "It's like driving a Ferrari in LA traffic" is kind of a red
flag. Think about how the people around you would feel about this comparison.
It's pretty insulting, right? If you carry around the attitude that you're put
upon dealing with other people's incompetence, they're going to notice and
take it badly.

Younger me would see my comment and say "so what? they're incompetent!" This
is the wrong emotional reaction. It doesn't matter if they're incompetent.
Telling them they're incompetent will harm your relationship with them, and
worsen your LA traffic gridlock.

There's almost always a way to be direct, correct and also kind. If you can't
figure one out, then talk to someone. "Hey, I'm a little irritated about xyz
situation, but I don't want to handle it badly. Do you have any suggestions
for how I can constructively engage, or do you think I should just let it go?"
Many people can't help, but some people have great emotional intelligence and
can help crack those things open. I'm not particularly good at it, but man,
the difference between trying and not trying is night and day.

~~~
dijit
Thank you for the feedback! :) I understand what you mean.

May I ask though, how can I convey my frustration to anyone? and how to I
avoid becoming jaded and apathetic to my goals?

~~~
toomuchtodo
> May I ask though, how can I convey my frustration to anyone? and how to I
> avoid becoming jaded and apathetic to my goals?

Spend time cultivating empathy and patience.

~~~
cesarbs
A million times this answer. We're in need of a good dose of that in
engineering organizations.

------
kemiller2002
Simply put, it's time to leave. Either your attitude towards the organization
is bad, or the organization itself cannot take criticism. If it's the
organization, then there is nothing that can be done and you should
immediately find new employment. This is generally a sign of bad things to
come.

If it's you, then you are not happy and you are not as effective as you could
be. You are no longer a good fit for the position. This sounds negative
towards you, but it's not. It just means that you need to find a place that
you like more.

This happened to me a couple of years ago. I worked with a group of people for
almost 15 years at different organizations. Towards the end, I was negative
all the time about the company we currently worked at. I wanted to stay,
because they were all my friends, and we had been through so many struggles
together that I couldn't imagine working with them (layoffs, bankruptcies,
buyouts, etc.) I had no idea how unhappy I was until I finally quit and found
another job. I miss the people there quite often, but now I know I would never
go back to that place. I would never have accomplished what I have if I stayed
there.

~~~
whamlastxmas
>Either your attitude towards the organization is bad

This is very likely the problem, not the latter. The OP will probably will run
into this problem again and again in the future, leaving his current employer
is not going to solve that. If anything, staying would be better, since
they're willing to work with him on fixing it.

~~~
nojvek
tbh we don't really know OP. Although It could be that the words OP uses might
be offending.

------
greenyoda
_" The problem is, I don't know what constitutes toxic behaviour and how to
prevent it."_

"Toxic discussion" seems like an imprecise term that can mean many different
things (e.g., insulting people, not letting people finish their sentences,
etc.). Maybe you should ask your manager for specific examples of situations
that you could have handled better. Of course, you should be careful to ask in
a non-confrontational way, making it clear that your aim is to address the
problem, not to argue with the allegations.

~~~
mariodiana
I think he definitely needs to get a number of particulars from management,
because if you ask me, characterizing an employee's behavior as "toxic" is
passive-aggressive. It certainly isn't constructive. Without particulars, it
simply means "we don't like you."

------
chaostheory
How to Win Friends & Influence People

This is a classic book that you can finish in one night. If you don't like
reading there's an audiobook version as well. It's also recommended by pg and
yc

[http://www.audible.com/pd/Business/How-to-Win-Friends-
Influe...](http://www.audible.com/pd/Business/How-to-Win-Friends-Influence-
People-Audiobook/B002V5BV96)

[https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-
People/dp/0...](https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-
People/dp/0671027034)

~~~
afarrell
I highly recommend this reading this book. If you read it 5 years ago, I
highly recommend re-reading it--the insights you have when you get reminded of
things will surprise you.

I also recommend the book Difficult Conversations by the same folks who wrote
Getting to Yes. It lays out a good model for better predicting what impact the
things you say might have on other people.

~~~
r00fus
I like "re-reading" the audiobook occasionally while doing other things
(cooking, driving). I find my interactions improve right after a re-reading.

Well worth the time and cost.

------
acnagy
It might be worth following up with your manager on what behavior they're
seeing, specifically. Depending on how your organization works and how your
relationship with your manager work, of course. That said, politely
approaching them with a short list of very specific questions may allow you to
clarify what they're seeing. If asking for clarification is an option, it's
definitely better than guessing what the issue is. The thing is, they're
concluding your behavior is "toxic" based on a set of specific actions
(assuming the review process is functional, etc.), so you'll want to find out
what those actions are and then make a plan on what to do differently, execute
that plan, then ask for feedback again later.

------
7402
First of all, I want to offer some hope. It is definitely possible to overcome
the habit of toxic discussion. I think more than one comment so far has
mentioned something like, "I used to be toxic, too..."

What I found to be helpful was just working on not immediately saying
everything I was thinking. I think it's hard for me stop _thinking_ things
like, "That idea is dumb," or "That process is ridiculous." But I found it
useful to simply work on adding a delay between the time I had a negative
thought and the time I expressed it.

This has a several advantages. Other people feel better if they get to speak
their whole piece first without interruption; someone other than you may
criticize the idea, too - this lets you off the hook, and they may be able to
express the criticism better; and if you wait, you may be able to express
yourself more calmly.

Many times I have been in a meeting and felt like loudly objecting to
something that has just been said; when that happens, I jot down "K.M.S." on
my notepad; it stands for "Keep Mouth Shut." This reminds me to wait my turn
and try to speak in a more temperate fashion.

~~~
dijit
These tips sound very actionable. I will certainly commit to trying them out
for at least 6 months. Thank you.

My specific problem is probably one of communication (long distance) and
tilted priorities. My priority is the functioning of the product. Their
priority is many products as cheaply as possible. Any advice on how I can
resolve this conflict?

~~~
7402
There are always disagreements over priorities, but I think it's important to
identify which _kind_ of disagreement you have going.

At one extreme, you have the engineer wanting to add features just because
they are fun to build, even if no customers would ever use them, and they
would cost a lot of time and money to develop. In this case, the engineer is
asking for too much, and should realize that business requirements have to
rule in the end.

At the other extreme, you have management asking for shortcuts that could lead
to the death of customers that trust in the product. In this case, there may
be an ethical obligation to blow the whistle and refuse to participate.

Most disagreements are somewhere in between. There is a sliding-scale here,
and you should figure out where you are on this scale for each potential
disagreement. Some things are closer to engineering's turf and some are closer
to marketing's turf. I have never had a job where everything went 100% my way.
If I can hit 70%, that's really pretty good. If it drops below 40%, I start
looking for a new job.

One thing that may help is to realize that you can be completely correct
technically, while still having to accept decisions made on the business side.
You can count it as a "win" if you can explain the technical issues well
enough so that others understand your point - even if the others still have to
choose something else in the end due to non-technical reasons.

~~~
WorldMaker
There's definitely a need to pick battles: if you battle every decision it's
easier for people to just think you are stubborn and they might not listen to
your concerns.

In addition to that is the skill in knowing how to bring concerns up in the
first place. At least for me, in some of my experience, it has been much
easier for me to focus on trying to pick my battles in the first place than
getting better at how I fight the battles. There's lots of little things in
the way that you might word things: instead of "We should do x", trying to get
the habits down of things more like "What if we did x instead?", or "Do you
think x might be a better approach?", or "Is it possible to do x here?"

There's that saying that the best leaders are the ones that make you think
that the best ideas were your ideas, in the Inception meaning of trying to
plant the idea seed in someone's head and hoping it takes hold and grows into
the best idea. That applies here to, even as an "underling" to management:
everyone feels like they are on the same team when they are all fighting the
battle together and the easiest way to get them on your side is to make them
think they had the idea in the first place. It's not easy to do, and you
aren't going to succeed every time, but a goal to work towards.

------
FuNe
Technique is what you probably missing. Try reading a classic like
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4865.How_to_Win_Friends_...](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4865.How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People)

Bottom line: You can criticize as long as you wrap it up the 'right' way

~~~
VeejayRampay
Or study the British, they're the world masters at Cadbury-chocolate-covered
offensive discussion.

PS: This might read as way too broad a statement or as an attack on British
people, rest assured that it's not. I genuinely find the British art of social
decorum absolutely fascinating and I think it can have tremendous value.
Speaking as a Frenchman, I too often witness the cost of being too hot-blooded
and blunt in the social rapport.

~~~
dijit
I am British working in Sweden. xD

~~~
CannisterFlux
Maybe you've been away for too long? :-)

Are your colleagues mostly Swedish or English/other? Do you speak in English
or Swedish to them?

I can imagine if you speak English better than your colleagues then you might
imperceptibly/unintentionally treat them like people less intelligent than
they are due to having an accent. As a British person working in Europe I've
seen it happen, non-UK colleagues I know to be very intelligent are treated
... differently... when talking to someone who speaks english natively. Maybe
not "toxic", but in a way I wouldn't appreciate.

~~~
dijit
I speak English at work, but I couldn't possibly have a superiority complex,
they all speak English better than I do.

------
peteretep
a) Stop caring about being right

b)
[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/21/how_to_get_paid_more...](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/03/21/how_to_get_paid_more/)
\-- read this

c) It's fine to say no, or it's wrong, or whatever, but always have a positive
and enthusiastic solution for whatever's wrong. Being blocked by a
bureaucratic organization? Have a work-around that you offer straight away!

~~~
monk_e_boy
It took me a long time to figure out that you don't get paid to do work, you
get paid to do work AND get on with people.

I found my life became far easier when I took five minutes to talk to people
about their kids, pets, work, spouses etc. Make a cup of coffee for the team,
get one for your boss before a meeting. Bring in some cookies and doughnuts.
Hell, turn up to work 30 minutes late with cookies everyone is pleased to see
you.

I read "how to make friends and influence people".... it didn't change my
life, but it's good to remember what my mum would call 'good manners' trumps
100% productivity.

~~~
DanBC
> It took me a long time to figure out that you don't get paid to do work, you
> get paid to do work AND get on with people.

In many places work is defined as "what the boss wants, even if that's really
stupid".

Life is easier if you can accept doing dumb stuff is part of the job, or if
you just leave and get another job.

~~~
monk_e_boy
And when layoffs come knocking with almost equal skilled workers and half the
team have to go? The boss is going to keep his friends or people he likes.

I've seen so many ass-lickers who treat the boss to a round of golf get the
promotion because 'they are keen'

------
maxaf
When faced with criticism from an organization that doesn't know how to
internalize criticism directed against itself, put on the most earnest
expression you can muster and ask firmly but politely for concrete examples of
"toxic behavior" that you've supposedly committed. Performance reviews,
especially at large organizations, are not set up to help you improve. They're
either a political device or a component of stack ranking that can be used as
part of "documenting" a dismissal. Especially suspect are broad accusations
that can mean practically anything but sound serious on the surface.

Definitely get more information before you go accepting blame for something
that might well be a smoke screen.

~~~
killface
But sometimes there may not be a single concrete example. Some people just
have that unfriendly vibe. Getting an example of "this one time Chad didn't
want to talk to you because you were scowling the whole standup" probably
won't mean much to you, but if it's a persistent theme, it's still a vaguely
toxic behaviour that may warrant dismissal.

------
srblanch
Although I’ve never been labeled as “toxic”, I’ve been a development manager
that had to help coach “toxic” individuals and have worked with numerous toxic
team members throughout my career. Here are some things to keep in mind:

1) It is really hard to go from toxic to non-toxic within the same
organization. Once your peers and management have formed that impression of
you, it is difficult to get rid of it.

2) Engineers typically undervalue the importance of communication skills and
interpersonal relations. You need to cultivate these skills probably more than
you realize and they will become even more important as you advance in your
career. The way to cut through road blocks and bureaucracy in the real world
is through relationships. Ever notice how some people can just make a few
calls to resolve issues?

3) The “golden rule” is just as important as it was in elementary school. Keep
the tone professional at all times – especially over the phone or when
emailing or texting. If you have problems with this, try to talking to your
coworkers in person.

4) You probably need to better understand the business side better. Your
employer wants to get the best return on their investment. Sometimes that
means that it is better for you to develop the Pinto instead of a Cadillac.
Developers have a really hard time with this because we always want to do
things the “right way”.

5) Instead of complaining about the incompetence of your management, try
explaining the limitations of their decisions and offer some alternatives.
Once a decision is made, however, drop it and just do your job.

Good luck. I recently saw this: [https://hbr.org/2015/12/its-better-to-avoid-
a-toxic-employee...](https://hbr.org/2015/12/its-better-to-avoid-a-toxic-
employee-than-hire-a-superstar). Getting labeled toxic is definitely something
that you want to avoid.

~~~
coverband
The paper in the HBR seems to define "toxic" quite differently though:

..."otherwise skilled employees who ended up doing real damage — employees who
had been fired for egregious company policy violations, such as sexual
harassment, workplace violence, or fraud"...

------
memset
I like this question. I'm going to be somewhat prescriptive here, and make
some assumptions about what management means by "toxic".

Is the first time you're getting this feedback is at the performance review?
If so, then one thing you could do going forward is ask your manager to give
more timely feedback. It's perfectly reasonable to tell them that you want to
improve (clearly you do, since you're posting here!) and to give you feedback
right when they observe "toxic behavior" rather than waiting for the annual
review.

Things that I have observed that I myself would call toxic:

1\. Snark. All the time. In your case, snark about the slow-moving
bureaucracy. The question to ask is, when engaging in a conversation, what do
you really expect the outcome to be? If you're complaining about the slow-
moving IT department, is there really a purpose rather than venting?

2\. Truth be told, when I work with people who are snarky/negative/critical
all the time (which, again, is my assumption of what management means by
"toxic"), it really does bring the rest of the team down. People spend time
gossiping and being more negative themselves. It breeds a team who continually
complains, rather than people who identify problems and actively try to come
up with solutions to make things better. Be honest - which camp do you see
yourself in?

3\. Is there a better venue to bring up issues than with co-workers? Bringing
up complaints in a 1-1 with a manager will reflect better on you than venting
to co-workers.

Everybody _knows_ that the team is less productive because of bureaucracy, so
complaining doesn't help. Consider asking "why is this central IT body here in
the first place?" and seeing if you can help come up with solutions which fit.

And, at the end of the day, the business has made a decision that they are
"okay" with development moving - and people being blocked - with their current
policies. In a sense, that is perfectly valid decision for them to make, and
if they want to pay you to wait around for them then that is the company's
burden.

~~~
dijit
This is good feedback, thank you.

Others have mentioned a book I will read it, and I will ask a colleague to
keep an eye on me for negative behaviour.

Timely feedback is also important. But yes, I am quite critical and I make
snarky jokes to lighten the mood- often it is at the expense of the central IT
body. They're not located in my region so it's very "us vs them" and we get
downtrodden a lot and I try to lighten the mood. I should probably do this
another way.

~~~
ianai
Maybe aim more for the "eh, what are you going to do" verbiage. Ie you have
done everything you can do for project X and it is now in someon else's ball
park. Since you're not management the rest is not your problem.

------
zuck9
Just make sure you don't hurt anyone's self-esteem and that's all you need to
take care of.

When giving feedback, criticism is inevitable so first increase their self-
esteem by appreciating the things about their work you like. Then the
criticism and then throw in another compliment if you can. Criticism sandwich.

Make sure you care about what other people feel. If what you (intentionally or
not) make them feel bad, that'll reflect on your image in their head. If you
make them feel good, they'll like you.

What you feel isn't always what they feel. If you point out their mistakes,
you'll feel good but they won't. If you make a joke about them, others may
laugh, you may laugh but that person will not like you.

A classic recommended read is "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by
Dale Carnegie.

If you find it hard to maintain your calm, take up on meditation and make it a
habit. It's scientifically proven and has a lot of benefits. Just search about
meditation on hn.algolia.com if you are still skeptical.

~~~
RUG3Y
I understand this tactic but an astute person realizes immediately what you're
up to, and it can cause the opposite effect. You need to understand the person
you're talking to.

~~~
roflc0ptic
Interesting. I'm pretty aware when people use this on me and I appreciate the
effort. I don't feel like I'm being manipulated, I feel like this person is
taking the time to try to preserve the relationship. Agreed that you should
take a moment to understand the person you're delivering criticism to, though.

------
ebbv
It's hard to answer this as an outsider because it's hard to know what exactly
your manager(s) consider toxic. It's cultural. At my company we have very open
and frank discussions of what our systemic problems are or what our team
problems are, etc. But I've had prior employers where those same discussions
would have been considered out of bounds and inappropriate.

As general advice though, I think if you like your job and want to stay there
and be in good standing with those around you it's extremely important to
learn the culture of that workplace and adapt to it. If you're getting
feedback that you are being toxic, and it's not just from one person who
doesn't like what you're saying but really is a clash between you and the
culture, then you need to listen to that feedback and reign your personality
in.

You can vent to friends and family outside of work. And if you really don't
like it, you can always find another job that is a better fit for you.

~~~
christogreeff
Good, balanced answer.

"Very bureaucratic and slow central organisation whom I am forced to deal
with." is one perception of the organisation. No way to know if this is really
the case, and I would refrain using these words with colleagues. It may well
be the case, but others might not experience it that way.

------
forgotpwtomain
I think it's important in such situations to assess whether the problem is
mostly you or the culture. Have you had similar problems in other places? Is
it this particular place? Most likely it's a combination of the two, but it's
worth considering what amount of effort / potentially active dishonesty it
will take to fit in with the culture of the place, whether such a culture is a
good thing, and whether there might not be better environments for you
elsewhere.

I strongly disagree with the people advising self-help books on helping one
interact with people; I tend to think the later is a kind of prescribed
culture bordering on forced. It's possible to be a decent human being and co-
worker (and apparently has been, if you allow that people are decent) without
reading self-help books and fitting in to other people's model of 'polite' and
'pleasant'.

~~~
mk89
I agree with you! I remember that in a previous company I worked for, I had a
few colleagues quite old (early employees of a startup which after 10 years
got bought) who were toxic/poisonous (it was evident) and they were
continuously told to change behavior.

However, they just didn't fit anymore in the new company's culture - which was
bad in my opinion, but I can't imagine how fucked up it must have been for
those colleagues, considering that they had seen the early great times - a lot
of fun, a lot to do, good managers with a good attitude, and so forth.

Sometimes it's really due to "the others", and it's then that you need to
realize that the earlier you leave, the better it is for you.

------
QuantumRoar
From what you wrote, I guess that you get into conflicts with other people or
they complain about you.

My general attitude has helped me in dealing with all kinds of people. Try to
figure out what kind of person it is you are talking to before you say
anything drastic. Some people are open and enjoy heated discussions, others
(most of the people) are actually insecure about themselves and cannot be
confronted head on.

Empathy is key to making yourself appear friendly even if you are disgusted by
the other person. Toxicity is inherently subjective and it doesn't matter so
much what you say but how you say it.

I might tell you the work you are doing is crap because reasons. Or I might
engage in a brief how-are-you-doing and mention it as a sidenote that I've
seen something that looked unfortunate and then ask about YOUR opinion on it
and guide the conversation with subtle questions in such a way that you see
the problem yourself.

Often in bureaucratic environments, when something got stuck, I did not try to
tell them what to do or how to do their job. Rather, I would give them the
credit of being the "expert" in their field and ask them for advice for my
situation. People are way more willing to help you if the idea came from them
and they immediately like you if you show them respect for the work they do
(that is especially true for hard working but overlooked people, e.g.
secretaries, cleaning personnel, etc.).

Also, in order to not appear toxic, understand your colleagues' characters,
admit mistakes in communication and tell them you are sorry if there was a
problem, address them with respect and DO NOT push them into a corner. NEVER
become overly defensive or aggressive, ALWAYS be prepared to let someone make
decisions which you wouldn't do while maintaining your friendliness.

I see it as a kind of diplomacy. As long as you are not the boss, it is not
your call to decide who does what. If there's a real problem with a person on
your team, your boss should already be aware of it and he should be dealing
with it without you having to tell them. If your boss doesn't know the people
on his team, then you have an entirely different problem.

------
pm
Is it you that's toxic, or is it the organisation? I wouldn't readily assume
you are the problem. If you're in a culture that avoids confrontation and
criticism, anyone who is outspoken will be targeted as a troublemaker. Just
some food for thought.

------
igvadaimon
Well, it can be you simply aren't accustomed to working in very bureaucratic
and slow environments. You either go with the flow or switch jobs.

I am toxic myself and I also have problems with it. So I try to constantly
"monitor" what I am saying and how I am feeling. Sometimes it just helps to
say to yourself "stop, don't overreact" and to force yourself to calm down.
Sometimes we make situation out of no situation.

~~~
duncanawoods
Good for you! Working on a weakness is great. I expect I would not find you
toxic. The truly toxic individuals really needing help are in total denial.
The rest of us know we are not perfect and have to work at it.

------
treerock
I always liked this article on toxic employees (in part because I recognise
myself in the description).

[http://randsinrepose.com/archives/a-toxic-
paradox/](http://randsinrepose.com/archives/a-toxic-paradox/)

However the end advice might not be very comforting.

------
circlefavshape
In my experience as a manager, "toxic" means you have an ego problem. Some
things to note that may help:

* The goal of a discussion is an agreement everyone is comfortable with, and not proving that you are right - _even if you are right_.

* Really listen to what your colleagues say. If what they say sounds stupid, it may be because you don't understand what they're saying, or that you don't know as much as you think you do about the problem domain

* If a wrong decision was made when you advised against it, don't go back and point it out. People will remember, you saying "I told you so" makes you seem like a dick

* If you do something good, don't boast, just allow people to notice

~~~
flukus
>The goal of a discussion is an agreement everyone is comfortable with, and
not proving that you are right - even if you are right.

That's a great way to rack up tech debt by making a lot of sub par decisions.

> If a wrong decision was made when you advised against it, don't go back and
> point it out. People will remember, you saying "I told you so" makes you
> seem like a dick

Are we supposed to pretend that the right decision was made and just stay the
course? This is one of the few joys that makes staying a a crappy company
worthwhile.

------
fchopin
There are a few things you can do to get over toxic behavior partially, but it
is tough to do completely; it's a one-day-at-a-time thing.

I've been through plenty of rough spots, and the best thing to do is to take
care of yourself (talk to doc or dentist about sleep apnea, lose weight
through exercise, get a checkup, etc.) and change your attitude. The latter is
tough, so I'll focus on that:

Many of us got into development or IT because we love technology, and we love
technology because it can really help people and it can be done correctly-
just humming along in the background enabling everything, or providing
extremely cool things that we help create or setup. But then, you throw in
people.

People are great. People manipulated silicon, germanium, copper, plastic, etc.
People came up with logic, operating systems, applications, and art. People
really come up with some great shit. But people also do things that are at
odds with the research, development, and running of all of that beautiful
tech. It doesn't matter what role they have or how smart they are, at some
point, almost every person has screwed something up in the mind of someone
else. They might have great motivations, too- really admirable! They might
want to save costs to help the companies grow and provide jobs and a bigger
paycheck for their families. They might be complete morons, but are probably
doing the best they can.

In the end, it is important that we try to work with all of these people. We
can't hope to fully understand motivations of people and manipulating them for
our own ends is probably not a good idea. We can only do our best to work with
each other to accomplish what we hope is great and do it while helping each
other and everything around us.

So, what do you do? Realize how lucky you are to be where you are and have
what you have. See how you could help others, whether it is in a different
place in the world or right there in your workplace. Understand that it's not
just about you, or the people you help, but there is something much bigger
going on, and we are only a small part of it. We don't have control over
everything, but we do have control over ourselves. Just do your best each and
every day with the gifts you were given.

------
pacnw
There is some excellent advice in this thread about how to identify and
correct supposedly 'toxic' behavior. What's concerning though, is that if you
are unclear on what this means, it indicates that the performance reviewer did
not do a good job giving the review. Conventional management training (e.g. in
Big 4 organizations where I come from), as a manager one is trained to give
specific examples and suggestions for alternate ways to handle situations,
when pointing out weaknesses or cause for comments. Either your reviewer is a
poor performance reviewer, or they did this intentionally, as a means to
vaguely officially document your problems with a pointer to fix, i.e. 'to
halt', so there could be official grounds for dismissal. 'Toxic' is also quite
a strong word, in comparison to say, 'insensitive' or 'abrasive', to give out
to someone in a performance review without giving specific examples.

If you have a mentor, or supervisor, you are close to, and can trust, you can
ask their thoughts on how you display toxic behavior.

It seems you care about your responsibilities and product, so would hate to
have you blindsided of what could come next. In any case, good luck, but keep
your eyes, ears, and most importantly, options open!

------
Mz
It may not be entirely _you._

I have spent a lot of my time around the military. It is a very blunt
environment. Some people find my directness refreshing. Others think I am
rude, crude and socially unacceptable. The exact same behaviors that get
lauded by some get decried by others.

I recently wrote a bit about that and you might find it a helpful read:
[http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/06/context-
cult...](http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/06/context-culture-
communication-and.html)

~~~
robwormald
This was great. I'm an Ask, and my girlfriend is a Guess, and darn it drives
me crazy sometimes, but i've never been able to quite pinpoint what it was...
this puts it into words nicely. Cheers!

------
wccrawford
I think we don't have enough details, but I wonder if you're starting
arguments with people? When someone blocks you, do you go to them and tell
them they are blocking you? Do you get upset when they tell you that they're
already working on it, and they have nothing for you?

Personally, when someone is blocking me and I've got nothing else to work on,
I note that I'm waiting for that something in my ticket (not the person! the
_thing_ I'm waiting on) and ask my boss for something else to work on. It's
then up to them to re-prioritize things and deal with the blockage somehow.

I'm imagining that you're balking and asking why it matters that you don't
name the person... And I'm with you there. I think it's silly. But people have
fragile egos, and pointing out their failings is called "toxic" because it
puts them in a bad mood. You probably experience this, too, and don't really
know what's going on. (I'm taking this post as proof of it. If it didn't
bother you that they called you Toxic, you wouldn't have posted in the first
place.)

In short, more empathy for how others feel is what they're asking for... And
that's not a real obvious thing, no matter how much they claim it is.

~~~
mikestew
_I 'm imagining that you're balking and asking why it matters that you don't
name the person... And I'm with you there. I think it's silly._

And you were doing so well up to this point. :-) I don't think it's silly,
because naming the person is unnecessary. If you say "I'm blocked by Joe" but
then Janet comes along and implements the piece you need, then you weren't
really blocked by Joe, were you? You were blocked by the FooBar component not
being implemented. It's a fine distinction, but naming names has only
potentially negative outcomes (hurt feelings and the like) with no potential
positive outcomes (if we want to lean on someone, everyone knows Joe is
responsible for FooBar w/o saying it). In short, you risk hurt feelings
without the possibility of a positive outcome that outweighs the hurt.

But if by "silly" you mean trying to preserve fragile egos, I wholeheartedly
agree. But fragile egos will always be with us, and if there's an easy way to
avoid some of that mess, I'll take it.

------
wsy
It is one thing to be passionate about your work, and another thing trying to
rescue the world (or your company, or your product). Your analogy with traffic
is actually a perfect example: you want to change the whole traffic (when,
where, and how all other people drive) instead of focusing on how well you
drive in the given environment. You are not the mayor of the city, and even he
can't do much about the traffic.

You will become much happier in your work if you simply report blockages to
the responsible persons (usually to your boss, sometimes to others), but don't
worry about that anymore. Instead, view it as opportunity to do things you
wouldn't have had time for if everybody around reacted instantly. Every
motivated person finds ways to improve the product he or she works on which is
in their direct reach. Pursue these opportunities when you are blocked. You
can even use the time to learn something new that you can apply to your work
in the future. The main thing is the perspective switch: blockage might be
wasted time for your employer, but for you it is actually a gift that frees
you from your regular duties for a while.

Of course, if it becomes impossible to perform useful work because of the
surrounding environment, leave and find another job.

------
munawwar
Heh. I've seen someone in a similar situation in a previous organization I
worked for. And the problem there was with a slow system admin team. The
sysadm team was large, however the truth was most power and responsibility was
given to exactly 3 of them. Yes, the 3 were experts and they did great work.
However the sysadm team was shared by like 4 product teams (and sometimes also
does some work for customer support dept).

From a manager's perspective, the root of his frustration wasn't that easy to
solve. To "scale" the team, it was necessary for the 3 guys to take lesser
work and train few/more of other sysadms so that they can delegate their work.
However, their work was so pressing, they hardly had time/chance to teach
others. (Also individual personalities may be different...some people are
great at their work, but not so great at teaching others..some don't want to
give up some power..some potential successors may not be willing to take up
their responsibility etc..all of this increases the problem).

My guess is that your IT dept is in a similar situation. Explain to your
manager(s) that they need to clear the traffic jam/bottleneck. Tell them to
find and check the IT dept's backlog so that they are convinced. Tell that
this inefficiency is potentially losing the company money. Also if your views
are backed by some of your colleagues it will add weight to your words. And be
patient (complaining too much back-fires, so save it). If nothing works out
and the situation is unbearable..then..we'll try to find a different job?

------
gorbachev
I'm in the exact same boat with you with regards to bureaucratic and slow
central organization. I and the other team members complain about this
constantly. We've escalated the issues to everyone we can, but progress is
non-existing or really, really slow.

My advice to you is to let it go. It is not your problem [1]. Do your best
under the circumstances. That's all you can do anyway. No amount of bitching
will fix it.

Escalate up the "command chain". Concentrate on constructively outlining what
the issues are and how they're affecting your deliverables and how you feel
about your work. Don't bitch. Don't point fingers, just document the facts, be
factual. Don't speculate on the reasons why things are slow or bureaucratic.
If you can phrase things in a way that convincingly point out what the affect
of all these issues is to the business (slower pace of innovation, cedeing
opportunities to more nimble competitors, product quality issues, increased
employee turnover, etc.), the better.

After you've escalated the issues to someone, check back with the person
periodically to see if anything's being done to address the issue. If you
don't see adequate progress within an acceptable timeframe, make up your own
conclusions. I've already more or less made up my mind that I will never work
in an environment like this again. The amount of time I'm wasting comes with
an extremely high personal opportunity cost, IMHO.

1\. If, however, you are in the position to solve some of these problems, then
try and do that. You probably aren't.

------
heisenbit
Often what is perceived as "toxic" is actually invalidating - ignorant or
instinctive 180 degrees wrong (twisted) signals to the communication
counterpart. Mild invalidation can cause irritation but stronger or persistent
can drive a usually balanced person to rage. "Toxic" persons often lack either
awareness of the emotional state of the person they address or just tend to do
it wrong. It is not easy to change this habit/ingrained behavior but it is
generally possible with focus, persistence and proper feedback. (Recommended
reading: "The high conflict couple")

"Toxic" persons are often surrounded by conflict. A big part of getting out of
this are establishing proper boundaries - knowing which gauntlets not to pick
up even when they land at our feet. Learning where and how to stop an
escalating conflict. Establishing a solid framework which conflicts to engage
or not is a huge energy saver. Saved energy that can be deployed to win where
it matters building a track record of success.

Self care and balance are critical. The less stressed we are the more is our
brain able to work rationally.

There is a targeted school of cognitive therapy that combines maintaining a
level of Zen in spite of real or perceived adversity and becoming more
effective in communicating needs. Google Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT)
which was specifically designed to deal with poster child type toxic behavior.
Incidentally a lot of what is there you find in some form in personal
effectiveness and management training. You may benefit of studying could be
there for you to take or consult a therapist to guide you. This would not be
about the couch but about skill building.

------
chmike
Toxic is relative. This is like aceton, some material will melt in contact
with it and others don't. So when someone say you are toxic, don't take it for
some absolute property you have. When someone say that about you, in the
context you describe, it means (I guess) that you are expressing negative
criticism which can negatively affect the team's morale or mood. The
pertinence of the criticism is not directly in question.

Trying to answer your question, the first point should be to verify the
objective reality and true importance of the problem. Assuming the problem you
reported is real, the second question is what could be done to solve it. There
are things that can't be changed and the problem you are dealing with could be
such type of problem. In this case keeping complaining about the problem is
indeed toxic because it affects the team morale.

So to stop being toxic, you should stop any behaviour that affects morale of
your team, and do whatever can raise the morale of the team. One way to do
that is to find new ways to make the best of the situation if you can't change
it. The key word is adapt. Help your team and yourself to adapt to the
situation.

The minimal action is to simple don't talk about the problem anymore.
Everybody knows about the problem, so stop pushing with your finger where it
hurts. A minimal proactive action could be to make funny jokes (not sarcastic)
about the situation. This reliefs the stress and the negative feeling.
Finally, the most usefull proactive action is to find news ways and work
methods to minimize the burden of the problem.

If you don't stand the burden yourself, considere swithching work instead of
making life harder to your colleagues.

------
dkns
One of the reasons for toxic behaviour in IT is, in my limited experiences,
the 'well, actually' mindset and everything that comes along with it. There is
great blog post that I made mandatory read for all new employees joining
company.

[http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html](http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html)

------
pp19dd
Think you should identify this label better and once you do, you'll know if
there's anything to correct. From a glance at this, I'm reading "toxic
discussion" as relating to inter-department communication.

You mentioned that you have no qualms speaking your mind about faults of other
departments, but is it possible that this kind of blunt communication is
creating political problems for your managers and coworkers?

When you make vocal statements about an another department, you're seen as
representing your department and your boss in those statements. That may not
be what your boss wants to be publicly associated with.

In technical problem solving, it's easy to make a very easy read of problems
and state them clearly, but in an organization they're seen as accusations and
criticism. Often, there are strong defensive reactions from being called out
and they can start a chain reaction: another department withdraws support or
resources, or escalates their complaint which then comes down on your boss.

------
Spooky23
When you feel the need to be "brutally honest" about something, STFU.

If you feel the need to offer unsolicited critique, STFU.

If you feel the need to announce the stupidity of some person/thing, STFU.

Don't gossip.

You need to learn how to live in a bureaucracy and function. If people are
telling you to your face that your toxic in a formal setting, the consensus is
that you're an Asshole.

------
JohnBooty
Do you have friends or trusted co-workers at work?

Reason I ask is because I used to work with a guy that was a _genius_
programmer. He was a sweet guy at heart, but he was often _very_ caustic --
especially when things were moving too slowly for his taste. He was also very,
very loud.

(If I had to guess, I'd say this guy had Aspergers, but that's just an
armchair diagnosis...)

Over time he and I developed a rapport and became pretty good friends. I'd
help him see others' points of view and when he was being too loud, I had a
little hand signal I gave him that meant, "You are being louder than you think
you are being!"

Not that I was perfect, in fact pretty far from it, but anyway... if you are
close enough to your co-workers you could proactively let them know that
you're working on these things and would appreciate help, like some subtle (or
not to subtle) real-time feedback when you're going over the line.

Good luck! I think you can do it!

------
chardgor
You ask a good question. The fact that you can ask about this is a positive
indication that you can change. Most would be afraid to ask. Toxic
communication is related to a tendency to blame instead of appreciate the
wants, needs, desires, capabilities, and circumstances of another. One model
considers three aspects to communication; the self, the other, and the context
of the communication. The ‘self’ is the set of parameters of your own wants,
needs, desires, capabilities, and circumstances. That same set of parameters
about the person you’re dealing with is the ‘other’, and ‘context’ considers
where you are at, who you are with, and the nature of your meeting together.
When we understand the self and the context, but don’t have understanding of
the parameters of the other, then we blame. We point our finger at them and
accuse. We use hurtful phrases like “that’s stupid”, “that’s worthless”, “what
a loser” …etc. People, who tend to cope with situations using blame, get
labeled as toxic, nasty, or some other pejorative term. That communication
style tends to bruise the self-esteem of others and is thus regarding as
painful or off-putting. Recognizing the parameters of the ‘other’ seems like
it should be easy to do. But, if you didn’t learn to do this as a younger
person, then it requires a lot of time and practice. One way to work on this
is: 1\. Provide an understanding of your own wants, needs, desires,
capabilities, and circumstances to the other. 2\. Ask questions that let you
understand the wants, needs, desires, capabilities and circumstances of the
other. 3\. Work within the context of the meeting, and strive to increase your
understanding. Put a watchdog program into your own personal algorithm, and
when you find yourself blaming, then go back to steps 1 &2\. This sounds easy
to do, yet it is not. Especially if you have expertise in some area, and feel
overwhelmed by trying to bring others up to speed. Go slow at first and in
time, like any other habit it can become your nature, and then you will not be
labeled as being toxic.

------
brokenmachine
Toxic to what? You should have asked exactly what they mean by toxic.

I suspect the corporation may be "toxic", and they are trying to knock you
down because the system is not working properly and they want you to just shut
up and toe the line.

Spotting problems and vocalising them is not something that should be ignored.
You are probably complaining to the wrong people however, and probably in an
unproductive way.

Anytime you feel like something is hindering your job, I would suggest putting
it in an email to your immediate boss and listing why it is a problem. "I just
wanted you to know that I am trying to do x, and it has been delayed because
of such-and-such a reason. Is there anything we can do about it?" That way the
problem is now your managers, not yours.

------
mk89
As already suggested by FuNe, there are some books which can help (like the
one he proposed, or maybe "Getting to Yes", which I have not yet read,
though).

Out of curiosity, how many times do you use these words: no, don't, always,
most of the time, 99% of the time, absolutely, they, sigh, boring.

------
raketenolli
It seems like you have good reasons to be toxic ;-) I have felt similarly in
some organizations.

In your case "toxic" seems to be that pointing out negative things about the
organization too often or too bluntly might lead to colleagues becoming less
motivated and less attached. So the "simple" way out would be to reduce your
remarks about the flaws of the organization or to state them in a less blunt
or confrontational manner.

Of course, what is being considered toxic will differ from one company to the
next but also from one country to the other. Germans and Dutch are known for
being very honest and direct whereas most other cultures prefer a less
confrontational attitude.

------
ak39
You've already taken the first and most important step: introspection.

That makes you better than the vast majority of really toxic people out there.
We have to celebrate these awakenings and also be kind to ourselves as we keep
finding more about ourselves.

Cheers.

------
pgroves
This is sort of a tangent, but if you feel you have to deal with too many
people to do even a small task, you could make a point of volunteering for
larger chunks of work to get out in front of these problems. If the technical
people are tripping over each other because of the bureaucracy then make sure
every time you have to deal with other people that you are getting a bigger
win for you and your team. It would have to be extremely dysfunctional if you
said you wanted to do bigger projects because you think you can get more done
with the realities of the organization and they said no.

------
whack
A lot of the comments here are assuming that the OP is indeed "toxic", and
needs to fundamentally change his behavior. There is a good possibility that
this is true, but without more details, we don't know for sure either.

Reading through the discussion, OP comes across as someone who is very
motivated and driven. And I know from first hand experience that there are a
lot of companies/teams out there, where everyone is just coasting, picking up
their paychecks, and dislike any "troublemakers" who try to create work for
them or move them outside their comfort zones. There's a real possibility that
this is the kind of situation that OP is finding himself in.

The real question is: How do you react when something like this happens?

Scenario A: You're trying to get something done, but someone else is blocking
you for a week, without offering you any good reasons. After a week of waiting
in frustration, you send a polite email to that person, CCing his manager, and
ask him when you can expect to get what you need. That person takes it
personally, because you just made him "look bad" in front of his manager. His
manager takes his side out of loyalty, they both complain to your manager, and
you end up with a "toxic" performance review.

Scenario B: You're stuck waiting for someone, and it's been a week. You send
that person a sharply worded email, insinuate that they are being incompetent,
and verbally abuse them to others as well. Word eventually gets around, and
your manager tells you that you're contributing to a toxic work atmosphere.

If Scenario B better describes your behavior, then you're definitely at fault.
It's good to be driven and hard-working, and to expect excellence from the
organization, but there's no reason why you have to be rude, and make personal
attacks, in the process. Describing faults in an objective and dispassionate
manner is a lot more effective, than insulting or abusing people.

But if Scenario A better describes what's happening, and I'm sure it has
happened to a number of people, then you should absolutely not change, and
find an organization that better matches your standards for excellence. There
are many great companies that are always looking for passionate employees with
high standards for excellence.

------
YashN
The amount of complicated 'techniques' being advised should show you one
thing: some companies have complicated and toxic environments and it's a
rigmarole and a farce or parody of trustful human communication to use those
techniques.

Probably the best thing to do to avoid 'engaging in toxic discussions' is to
avoid the toxic environment in the first place. Find another job where
communication isn't toxic or freelance.

------
ruler88
The short response I'd say is: mindfulness.

I think every human is capable is discerning positive and negative behavior if
the said human is observing the situation as an outsider. Practicing
mindfulness allows you to be able to remove yourself from the equation and be
more aware of your mind's reactions and behaviors even when you are caught in
a difficult situation.

Find the book: Search Inside Yourself on Amazon and start with that. Hopefully
that'll help you with your journey.

------
adultSwim
In your post, when met with feedback about your own behavior, you point to
outside issues. Be open to the possibility that your behavior is actually an
issue.

Consider taking time to reflect after interactions. E.g. after a meeting, how
did others (likely) feel? Were there any "off notes"? Think of how you could
have improved what you said - how to further your agenda and also have others
coming away positively?

------
rpeden
There are times when toxicity is situational. It could be that you're not
toxic in general, but the conditions in your work environment are such that
your responses comes across as toxic to those you work with.

There are some changes you can make; perhaps it is possible to voice your
frustrations more diplomatically. Your IT department probably isn't blocking
you because they enjoy being obstructive jerks. They likely have a very
different set of priorities than you, and different goals they're trying to
accomplish.

While large organizations do have their share of people who are capricious and
arbitrary jerks, a lot of the slowness you're encountering comes from friction
between various groups operating with different sets of priorities. In groups
that work together, the intersection of their priority sets is usually enough
to prevent all-out war, but there's often enough difference to cause slowness
and bureaucracy.

As other have mentioned, one option is to just leave and find somewhere that
is a better fit. Another option is to try to be passionate about the parts of
your job you can control, and dispassionate about the parts you don't have
control over.

A third option is to try to become a calm, detached professional. Save your
passion for your own projects, because the company is most definitely not
passionate about paying you. Do what you're paid to do as professionally as
you can. When you find yourself blocked by other groups like IT, document it
and estimate how much delay it has caused. Having a record of how much time
has been lost due to blockage from other groups will enable your team and your
manager(s) to assign a dollar value to the delay, which can give them the
leverage they need to get changes enacted.

A final option, which may or may not be possible depending on your
organization and your position within it: engage with people in IT and any
other groups that you feel are blocking you. Try to understand them, and get a
feel for what their goals and concerns are. There might be better ways to work
together that help _everyone_ achieve their goal more effectively. If your
company is as bureaucratic as it sounds, telling people that you are trying to
"synergize to find win-win solutions" might buy you the political cover and
time you need to pursue this course of action.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you success!

------
yitchelle
Many years ago, I read "The no asshole rule" by Robert Sutton and it help me a
lot.

[https://www.amazon.com/Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace-
Surv...](https://www.amazon.com/Asshole-Rule-Civilized-Workplace-Surviving-
ebook/dp/B00FOTRBOK/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467231654&sr=1-1&keywords=the+no+asshole+rule#navbar)

------
zekevermillion
Actual toxic behavior usually involves playing corporate politics in a way
that's detrimental to the work you're supposed to be engaged in. Voicing
negative views openly is healthy and should be encouraged, as long as you know
what you're talking about. If you whine and complain but do not have a
proposed solution, then that is not toxic behavior it's just garden variety
laziness.

~~~
sethammons
I think there is a caveat. If team X is slowing your workflow, you don't say,
"I am unable to do $FOO because team X are a bunch of lazy bastards with a
shit process." Instead, you can try, "I can see that team X has a lot on their
plate. I do need their support to complete $FOO, and the current process seems
to be hindering that. What can we do to improve this situation? I think we
could do $BAR, but I want to get some buy-in first."

I feel the difference between toxic and not toxic (at least where I work) is
how you approach situations: constructively vs not.

Negative view should be able to be discussed. But it should be done in a way
as to seek progress and improve. Not to just shit on other people or teams.
I've seen people who don't get this.

------
charlesism
It sounds like you're posting here because you want someone to reaffirm that
your work place is toxic.

Well, I'm happy to oblige:

Your work place is toxic.

------
itomato
Work on your own internal dialogue.

Ask yourself:

\- Does this need to be said?

\- Does this need to be said by me?

\- Does this need to be said by me, now?

Once you get a basic functional filter set up, you can work on tone.

Find a role model to "look up to" in your toxic moments - it can be anyone;
Gandhi, Big Bird, Ron Swanson, Bob Ross, anyone.

Have them speak first. If you like what they say, bring it forward yourself.

------
partycoder
You can read a book called "The No Asshole Rule". It can explain better than I
can how to deal with a toxic work environment and how to contribute for a
better one, starting by explaining the actual cost of toxic behavior.

Personally I am still working in not being a jerk at times.

------
golemotron
Is there a chance that you are on the autism spectrum? Many people who
gravitate toward technology are. Efforts toward inclusion usually don't
recognize the special needs of people on the spectrum.

You may have a cause of action. They may legally be required to provide
accommodation.

~~~
atrophying
Speaking as someone who's on the spectrum, just because one is autistic
doesn't automatically make them toxic - nor does being toxic automatically
make one autistic. This is a really disingenuous and harmful stereotype of
people on the spectrum. Autism affects more than just social functioning, and
a great number of us, myself included, have no problems behaving in a positive
and supportive fashion.

~~~
golemotron
> Speaking as someone who's on the spectrum, just because one is autistic
> doesn't automatically make them toxic - nor does being toxic automatically
> make one autistic. This is a really disingenuous and harmful stereotype of
> people on the spectrum.

You should note that I did not say either of those things, nor do I believe
them.

------
pmiller2
If I were in your shoes, the first thing I would do is take this review as a
signal to look for a new job. I would consider seeing a therapist as well.

------
jenkstom
Buddhism has the concept of "Right Speech". There are various takes on it over
the millenia, but it might be a good starting point.

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joe563323
Does your direct manager code now or does he have an extensive coding
background. If the answer is no, then the problem is not completely yours.

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current_call
_At my last performance review I was told that I engage in toxic discussion
too much and I should halt._

What did they say when you asked them to clarify?

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andrei_says_
Read and apply "nonviolent communication" by Marshall Rosenberg. Precisely on
this topic.

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brudgers
_I have no qualms_

Obtain and nurture some qualms.

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vmorgulis
IMHO you are not really toxic. Toxic people have not enough empathy to ask
themselves about that.

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zoner
Probably just leave your current job. The problem might be with them, not with
you.

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hclivess
I assume you live in the United States. This means you should move out.

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hclivess
You live in the United States I assume. You should move out.

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killface
I can tell just from reading your replies in this thread that you're "that
guy" \-- the guy who always complains, who thinks he's better than every one
else he works with, whose life motto is "the skill of accurate observation is
called cynicism by those who do not possess it. "

I know, because I was (am?) that guy also.

Every company has a culture, and bad or good, they'll fight to maintain it.
Each organization within a company has a culture, and they'll fight to
maintain it. Managers will fire perfectly good people because they won't go
along with the culture. Even if that culture is toxic.

How do you fix yourself? I'll offer a few things I've tried/done/been told to
do:

* Don't make personal attacks. Just say that you're blocked. Don't say "that lazy ass IT department was just playing pingpong all day long, and not fixing my ticket. So I can't do a damn thing today" Just say that your ticket still isn't resolved. Let your manager/pm/whatever escalate. Let the chain of command happen. If you're the one who is supposed to escalate, still don't play that game. Just say you're still blocked, and work on it in private.

* Don't be passive aggressive. That is, if you ever feel like "they think they know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard" is applicable, step away and grab some coffee.... decaf.

* Don't assume you know better than other people. I struggle with this a lot, because I genuinely do believe that I know more than most other people in my role. I've been told this directly by my managers and peers. If you feel like this is true, use your knowledge to teach instead of demean/humiliate/punch-down your coworkers. If you're the friendly guy who is always willing to chat about design patterns or architecture decisions, and you can help people do their work better, you're going to be everyone's best friend.

* Praise in public, punish in private. If you have an issue with someone or some group, bring it up in a 1-on-1 meeting with someone -- even just a hallway conversation. If you have praise, do it publicly. Make sure everyone hears it. This goes for everyone. If you wanted to shit all over the IT department for not getting you your server, then someone else is like, "the IT department totally handled our server farm blackout, and got production back online in less than an hour. props to them" \-- you might rethink your "lazy" assessment.

* Realize that most people have little-to-zero passion for their job. They're just there to collect a paycheck. While you can piss and moan all you want about these people, they will invariably make up a majority of any company you go to. I go between hyper-passionate and aggressively indifferent, depending on the project, the client, the phase of a project, or even how much sleep I got last night.

Lastly, I've seen engage in toxic discussion too much" before. I've given that
advice. It was to a person who was actually very good at what they do, and a
great person to work with. The problem is, they were buddy-buddy with the
absolute worst person in the office. The guy everyone else goes out of their
way to avoid. The guy who tries to make himself the gatekeeper of everything
or anything. It's often an IT guy, but sometimes just a middle manager. And if
you're hanging out with them, bitching about anyone and anything all day long,
you're going to be seen as a lost cause at some point, even if your work is
good. As to why they won't just fire that actual toxic person? Companies fight
to maintain their status quo over taking risks.

~~~
smileysteve
> * Don't assume you know better than other people. I struggle with this a
> lot, because I genuinely do believe that I know more than most other people
> in my role.

And if you still feel like you know better than other people, realize that you
need to get them to buy into your knowledge. So you need to teach the
organization, but teaching people is really tricky, you can't just explain
that something is wrong, you need to create a progression of adaptation with
buyin.

