
Canada's Start-up Visa - tsenkov
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/index.asp
======
mjn
Summary of the conditions:

\- Secure $75k in angel funding or $200k in venture funding, from a list of
designated Canadian funders.

\- Score relatively highly on a language test in either English or French, for
both verbal and written ability (note that everyone must take this test, even
those coming from English- or French-speaking countries).

\- Have satisfactorily completed at least one year of higher education (no
degree required).

\- Depending on family size, have a minimum of $11k-$30k in the bank initially
to support yourself.

~~~
ritchiea
Isn't having 11k around a slightly high bar? Do most under 25 founders have
that kind of cash lying around? And if you are the kind of foreigner that has
that kind of North American cash in your account you probably come from a
family who isn't hard up for Canadian citizenship or have already experienced
some business success.

~~~
jacquesm
$11K is irresponsibly low if that's your savings when you move from one
country to another, even if your start-up is somewhat funded. After all, your
chances of success are just as low as every other funded start-up and you're
going to have _nothing_ but your savings and your skills to fall back on in an
unknown market if your start-up should fail.

Personally I think that $50K in savings is more in line with realistic
expectations of moving country, setting up shop and getting a company under
way, funding is icing on the cake, it's not as if that's _your_ money.

~~~
ritchiea
Well who are they trying to attract with this visa? If you are the kind of
person that has 50K in savings, is this startup visa really going to help you?
If you have 50K in savings you are already wealthy on a global scale even
though you are not really a person of high net worth (after all to have 50K in
savings you have to have earned a healthy income in some line of work that
allows you to save or have a wealthy family).

My impression of this kind of visa is it is should be attempting to attract
young people with high potential but without necessarily having other great
routes to the life they desire in North America. If you think they are
targeting a different audience, say older foreigners with established
businesses/careers who just want to move to Canada then 50K is reasonable.

Also there's definite risk on one side here, otherwise it's an opportunity for
no one. If you have $50K of your own, why start a company in Canada rather
than SV? I think to make this a worthwhile visa, Canada has to take on the
risk that they are going to let someone into their first world country with a
good social safety net because that person has untapped potential. Canada
takes the risk if the savings threshold is low, but if the savings threshold
is high they are not creating much of an incentive to move to Canada rather
than an established startup hub and its the entrepreneur taking the risk.

~~~
nchuhoai
> Also there's definite risk on one side here, otherwise it's an opportunity
> for no one. If you have $50K of your own, why start a company in Canada
> rather than SV?

Well, because you can't. You can't just simply walk into the US. That's the
whole point why everyone raves about the Canadian Startup Visa. The
requirements for the US for a foreign entrepreneur are one hell of a lot
tougher in terms of funding/jobs created by company/etc.

------
jacquesm
Some bits and pieces of info for those considering this:

\- remember to sign up for OHIP (or the local equivalent) as soon as you
arrive, there is a time limit on how long you can wait before signing up after
arriving in Canada. If you don't do this in time you will _not_ be covered.

\- Canada has some pretty severe weather in the winter, everywhere except for
the area around Niagara falls and Vancouver. The latter is the better spot all
year round. Big cities are your only chance to mitigate the worst of this,
rural life is _brutal_.

\- Don't make any irreversible moves (giving away stuff, actually moving)
until _all_ the paper work is done. I made the mistake of believing a bunch of
government officials during my own move to Canada on an entrepreneurship visa
and it cost me dearly.

\- Elsewhere in this thread someone asks why not go to the US, well, (1) free
(and good) healthcare, (2) a bit more laid back business climate. That said,
the laid back atmosphere and the different venture capital climate make it a
lot harder to get off the ground in Canada. Cost of living is slightly lower
than in the US for most parts of Canada.

\- Outside of Waterloo, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and maybe Quebec
City it's going to be hard to find qualified employees. In Ottawa you'll be
bidding against the government.

\- No matter where you want to go in Canada you'll have to score reasonably
well on the French language test. Even if that's the only time in Canada
you'll ever use your French. (imho this is a ridiculous requirement, and
that's with 5 years of French under my belt and a ton of exposure, you simply
don't need it unless you plan on living in Quebec).

\- Paperwork processing in Canada can be terribly slow, it is basically the
luck of the draw whether your paperwork will be processed in weeks, months,
years or even decades! (no kidding...).

I could go on like this for a while, if you have any specific questions about
moving to Canada (but not about this program) feel free to ask.

~~~
bparsons
Can't say enough about Vancouver.

The skytrain will take you from the YVR arrivals terminal right downtown. Cost
is 6 bucks, and you will be at your apartment or hotel in 20-30 minutes.

The city is most the most walkable in the world, with almost no need for a car
(unless you really like to go on weekend road trips). Crime is extremely low
right now, and the city economy is very solid.

With TED moving to the city next year (and a bunch of other things falling
into place), it is a great time to move to Vancouver to find a job or start a
business.

Also, the thing about french is not true in the west. No one speaks a lick of
french anywhere west of Ontario, and it will never be a job requirement,
unless you are applying to work with the federal government.

~~~
brm
Most walkable city in the world? Do you have sources to back this?

~~~
bdamm
I'm from Vancouver and I've lived in San Francisco. Compared the SF, the city
is very walkable and the transit is far more efficient than SF's Muni, which
crawls like a croaking dog. I never thought I'd say that transit in Vancouver
is better than in other cities, having been part of the fight to get more
transit funding in Vancouver, but it's not bad.

SkyTrain is the most beautiful rapid transit line I've ever been on.

Best in the world though? Not sure - I'd like to see it compared to Zurich or
Hong Kong or Amsterdam in that regard.

~~~
bparsons
Granted. It depends where you live. If transit is a priority, you want to live
near the Canada line, which is fast, clean and has really good security.

If you live out in the burbs, transit is okay, but not better than most
European cities.

Downtown Vancouver and false creek were designed with density and walking in
mind. Every condo tower must have street level retail, and they make sure to
have essential things like good grocery stores every few blocks. Check out the
walk score for Yaletown: [http://www.walkscore.com/score/davie-st-and-pacific-
boulevar...](http://www.walkscore.com/score/davie-st-and-pacific-boulevard-
vancouver-bc-canada)

------
ramanujam
The bad part: The investment has to come from a canadian VC or angel firm. It
doesn't clearly state if it is a requirement though [1].

The good part: As many have already mentioned, it is a permanent residency
status and not just a temporary visa. It comes along with all the health care
benefits and social benefits as what Canadian citizens get [2]. So even if
your first business fails, you will have the opportunity to start another one
or find a job.

[1]
[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=653&t=6](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=653&t=6)

[2] [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-
pr.asp](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp)

~~~
dangerboysteve
Well if it does not the system would be completely raped!

~~~
steveklabnik
Since I downvoted, I'll tell you why: this comment is factually incorrect.
It's not possible to have sexual intercourse with a government program, let
alone coercive sexual intercourse.

~~~
dangerboysteve
steve,down vote all you like. I could have chosen a better words. I agree. But
we have seen the immigration system gamed by lots of people and companies. So
having a qualified investors is a good thing. Trust me the Canadian government
does not have the resources to look into everything.

~~~
steveklabnik
Upvoted, that's great! I'm not saying that the system won't be gamed; I'm
saying that using the word 'rape' in this context is inaccurate and of poor
taste.

Your point could have been made the first time by just typing "we have seen
the immigration system gamed by lots of people and companies. So having a
qualified investors is a good thing. Trust me the Canadian government does not
have the resources to look into everything." and I'd take zero issue with it.

------
frankcaron
While this is great in theory, it's likely not going to lead to anything other
than one marquee Toronto Star story about the foreign entrepreneur who found
success in Canada.

Canadian VCs are far too risk averse and conservative; that's why the uptick
of start-ups in all areas of the country, even Toronto's own would-be "Valley"
of Liberty Village and the Junction, hasn't fielded much in the ways of
success.

Until Toronto VCs start taking more risks and going down the road of helping
people experiment (much like YComb itself), I don't see this doing much other
than acting as a talking point for why Canada is a good place to live.

(I say this as a Torontonian who has worked almost exclusively for start-ups
in the GTA and is now moving to San Fran to work for another one).

~~~
wellboy
You know they could have not introduced a startup-visa, because they thought
they have too little VC.

Instead they said, damn we really want young entrepreneurs to succeed and
start a change. We don't have much VC money, but let's freaking execute by
introducing a startup visa and that way state an example for the U.S. to
follow.

~~~
gyardley
The government of Canada isn't doing this to set an example for the United
States to follow. They're doing this because they want to grow the Canadian
economy.

In fact, they'd be quite happy if the United States _doesn 't_ follow their
example, because that will help Canada compete. See, for instance, this
billboard in Silicon Valley:

[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/photos/2013/20...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/photos/2013/2013-05-17/photo.asp?p=0)

------
galactus
The canadian "citizen and immigration" service is seriously understaffed
(thanks, Mr. Harper!). Some consequences of this:

* It currently takes more than two years in average to process a citizenship request.

* The CIC stopped accepting any new application from canadian citizens or permanent residents to sponsor their parents or grandparents for permanent residency.

So, this all sounds good in paper, but Im skeptical about how well it will
work in reality.

~~~
Zikes
Since this is permanent residency and not citizenship, shouldn't it be a fair
amount less effort and paperwork on immigration's part?

~~~
galactus
Actually you typically apply for citizenship after you become a permanent
resident, and it takes less effort (from the candidate, at least). But in any
case, it is the same service that is in charge of both citizenship and
permanent residency, and they are understaffed. Perhaps they will give more
priority to Startup visas processing than to other types of visa.

------
bishnu
The conditional on Canadian funding thing is killer. There is so little VC in
Canada.

~~~
untog
Well, I suppose this is a two way street. _Hopefully_ something like this
would kick-start Canadian VC funding, as they'll have a lot of very qualified
international applicants knocking down their doors.

~~~
jt2190
You would _think_ it would be that simple, but you really need to look at it
from the investor's point of view: What is my ROI if invest my money this way
instead of that way? More unattractive investments won't help the tech startup
community grow.

My suspicion[1] is that the thing that will really fix this is changing the
way that investors are taxed on their capital gains and losses.

[1] Been a while since I lived in Canada, but IIRC capital gains and losses
are not taxed like they are in the US.

~~~
eigenvector
That's not correct. Interest is taxed progressively like any other income,
dividends are somewhat taxed according to a complex formula, and 50% of your
capital gains are taxed at the applicable marginal tax rate depending on your
income.

~~~
dean
" _50% of your capital gains are taxed_ "

True, but that is an exemption that gets used up. There is a $750,000 lifetime
capital gains exemption. Which most people don't hit, but a successful founder
could.

------
untog
Theoretically this is fantastic. I'm in the US on an H1B visa and there's no
clear path for me to be able to start my own company. My visa still has a
couple of years left on it, but this is something I will be watching closely.

Of course, the US could implement a similar program in a heartbeat. And by "in
a heartbeat", I mean "never, because the government in this country is utterly
dysfunctional".

~~~
kareemm
You can start a company with a US business partner on an H1B if you're a
minority owner.

~~~
wiradikusuma
I don't understand. I recently incorporated a C-Corp in Delaware remotely from
Malaysia (never stepped a foot in American soil), single founder. So it means
if you're _there_ under H1B then you can't do that? I wonder if you can setup
a company in your country of origin and have that company incorporate a
company in the US, will it work?

~~~
untog
You can start a company, but you can't work for it. Unless you transfer your
visa to that company, but then things like funding become very chicken and
egg- you don't want to transfer your visa until your company is viable, but
investors are going to be wary until you can prove that everyone can legally
work for the company.

------
3pt14159
If anyone is doing a story on this I have photos from the announcement that
are CC released :)

[http://500px.com/zachaysan/sets/startup_visa](http://500px.com/zachaysan/sets/startup_visa)

------
jrn
Stop complaining about vc, or culture; Canadians regularly blow billions on
prospective mining companies on tsx-v. which never report any revenue.

Alberta spearheaded a funding model in the oil patch in the 90s, which is now
accessible to the other provinces, which I believe could be useful in the tech
sector. The capital pool company,
[http://www.tmx.com/en/listings/listing_with_us/ways/capital_...](http://www.tmx.com/en/listings/listing_with_us/ways/capital_company.html)

We get a bunch of proven tech execs together, they issue shares, then they
have 24 months to go find something worth buying and growing.

So instead of serial entrepreneurs, I believe we could also foster midlevel
serial ceo's for instance I would buy stock in a jaquesm, pg or whoever,
headed shell company to go and buy out some up and coming tech.

At least I think you could kickstart building a company out of aquihiring
zombie startups. I would do this but I'm a no-name.

------
neilrahilly
The best thing the Canadian government could do for Canadian tech
entrepreneurship would be to work with the US government to make it easier for
Canadians to work in the States and Americans to work in Canada. That, more
than anything, would help the skills, knowledge and resources required to
build good software companies flow between Toronto and SV.

------
mathattack
Seems like a shot across the bow of their Southern neighbors. The US needs to
get our act in gear. Vancouver and Toronto are already world class cities.

------
jdangu
There's a designated list of VC/angel group investors:
[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-
up/eli...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-
up/eligibility/entities.asp)

------
petercooper
_proof of having completed at least one year of post-secondary education_

Seems oddly arbitrary. Most visas with educational requirements go for the
complete degree, not just one year of education. All the tales of "drop outs"
who make it big force their hand? :-)

~~~
toyg
That's the most discouraging requirement for me. I've completed the first 18
months of _two_ undergraduate programmes (without actually graduating), _and_
half a year of an MSc, before finally admitting that I simply didn't care
enough about academia. I have _no idea_ how'd I ever manage to demonstrate
what I've done. I might have a sort of exam booklet somewhere back at my
parents', god knows where. I cannot be the only drop-out who's not
particularly plussed about storing mementos of his academic failure.

Either require a full degree or drop the requirement. This middle-of-the-road
thing is just silly red tape.

~~~
ced
You can usually ask your uni to produce the relevant paperwork.

~~~
mjn
Yes, the instructions specifically say that a transcript is sufficient
documentation. Most universities have an easy way to request one (often
online), and they usually keep the paperwork even if you didn't graduate, at
least if you attended in the post-digitized-records age. Searching for
[site:uni.edu transcript request] should turn up the instructions.

------
k-mcgrady
The education requirements are strange especially considering they only
require one year. e.g. I started my business in the final year of high school
and although I got accepted, decided not to attend University. I would be
denied a visa. However someone who decided to drop out at the end of their
first year of University would be accepted for a visa.

Doesn't seem to make much sense. Does anyone know how strict these
requirements are yet?

------
euphemize
Went through the different links - does anyone know how long this Visa is
valid for? If it's on that page, it seems to be hidden somewhere...

~~~
padolsey

        Get your business idea funded and immigrate to Canada **permanently**
    

...

    
    
        What happens if my business fails? [1]
        Failure of your business will not affect your permanent
        resident status. We recognize that not every business will
        succeed and this program is designed so that the risk is
        shared between the public and private sector.
    

[1]
[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=657&t=6](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=657&t=6)

------
joshaidan
There are a lot of smaller cities in Canada, i.e. cities that are not
Vancouver, Toronto, Waterloo, Ottawa, etc. that are trying very hard to build
their own start-up communities. You may want to consider these places if it
suits your idea.

For example, I live in Thunder Bay, Ontario, and there are a lot of grants
specific to our region because we're considered a northern community. Since
we're smaller, there's less competition, and more people will be willing to
help you and promote your startup.

Also, if you're startup is involved in medical research, definitely consider
Thunder Bay because there is a big medical research community and it's one of
the areas the city is trying really hard to build up.

Take a look at these websites for more information:
[http://www.nwoinnovation.ca/](http://www.nwoinnovation.ca/)
[http://www.tbrri.com/](http://www.tbrri.com/) (for medical related startups)

Lastly, the cost of living in places like Thunder Bay (in particular housing)
is much more affordable.

~~~
jacquesm
Housing in Thunder Bay is much more affordable because it's in the middle of
nowhere. Beautiful place, great steakhouse but not exactly a start-up hotbed.

Of course, if you really only need an internet connection and a couch then it
might actually be an advantage but for most start-ups (apparently outside the
medical research ones but those are few and far between) access to facilities,
a nearby university, a pool of schooled talent to pick from and capital are
their lifeblood.

~~~
joshaidan
There is a university in Thunder Bay:
[http://lakeheadu.ca](http://lakeheadu.ca)

The advantage with Thunder Bay is that people are trying to develop it into a
hotbed for start-ups, and will do a lot to see your startup succeed.

Quick examples of Thunder Bay startups:
[http://cinevate.com](http://cinevate.com),
[http://qwantech.com](http://qwantech.com) (big in the mining industry, also
doing work in autism support systems),
[http://flightop.com](http://flightop.com)

------
hbharadwaj
I wonder what the impact would be across the different types of startups. I
see this as a boon for foreign entrepreneurs but there are associated
downsides as well. For one as an example, if you are planning to start a
service based start-up, you may have to manually grab users until your start-
up picks up steam.

Based on the numbers from International Telecommunications Union, US has 10
times more online users. I am pretty sure online services and in general
start-up success is also tied to your market size. Heck, the first thing they
taught me in Management Consulting is to size up the market. I am sure you can
get a Temporary Business Visitor visa to the US but as always, this
complicates the story.

All in all, as someone from India, looking to start something, I am thrilled
by the news but I am not going to apply until I run out of all options in the
US. Just my $0.02.

Reference:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users)

------
danielsiders
What's the possible reason for the education requirements? Shouldn't VC
support and sufficient financing be enough?

~~~
tokenizer
It doesn't mention any particular reason for the education on the website.

I'm at least a little glad it isn't a requirement to hold a degree or diploma.

I'm assuming this is simply an empty requirement to weed out people during
application. That said, if a few very intelligent hacker types who never went
to college had successfully achieved all of the other three requirements, then
I'd see no reason to deny that application.

I'm pretty sure this rule also extends from my countries intense fascination
with secondary education.

See: [http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/and-the-worlds-most-
educ...](http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/and-the-worlds-most-educated-
country-is/),
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=canada+most+educated+country](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=canada+most+educated+country)

~~~
randomdata
> I'm pretty sure this rule also extends from my countries intense fascination
> with secondary education.

That was my takeaway. A way to save face with the strong "education or else"
group of people in the country, while acknowledging that formal education is
not all that relevant to the program.

~~~
tokenizer
Exactly. While it's a compromise, I feel like they missed the point. As
someone who has completed one year of college, but opted to drop out and start
working, I would rather drop outs be given a chance.

I mean, if I have 12,000$ in the bank, a VC in Canada willing to invest, and
can speak French and English, then that should be enough. My main criticism of
this Visa is that it isn't inclusive enough. If we could even get 10 more
accepted applicants by dropping the educational requirement then it would be
worth it in my opinion.

------
vijucat
This might seem a bit superficial, but one of the reasons I fear a move to
Canada is the weather; not the weather per se, but whether someone like me
born in a tropical country would adjust well to the cold? I'm concerned that I
would relapse into a depression ushered in by the winter blues (used to be
depressed in my 20s, not sure why, it went away after 30, not sure why
either), and lose my productivity. As a separate topic, it's slightly
unsettling how much the ability to work hard defines many of us.

For context, I was born in South India and currently live + work in Hong Kong.
In Hong Kong, the temperature is around the same number as you see for, say,
Victoria, BC, except for that the former is in Celsius while the latter is in
Fahrenheit! :-)

~~~
akg_67
For Indians with in-demand qualifications like technology:

First year snow is fun specially if you never seen snow or live for extended
period.

Second year snow is okay.

Third year oh! crap snow again.

Fourth year snow is drudgery.

Fifth year snow again! I can't wait to get out.

Sixth year, as you reaching snow season, I got my Canadian citizenship, I am
moving south.

~~~
vijucat
Thanks for sharing! I suppose citizenship + TN visa isn't a bad combination.
Where exactly South? California, I suppose :-) (for the weather)

------
mjhea0
i'd like to hear more about the startups that have made the move from the us
to canada. from my perspective, this seems great for startups looking to get
into the us market by making a stop in canada, growing, and then attracting us
investors.

it will be interesting to see the long-term affects this has. will startups
stay?

also, i would love to see an article about the canada startup community in
general. canada's economy is well-balanced and from what i can tell pretty
risk-adverse. how well people respond to the influx of startups that must take
risks, gamble, and move quickly in order to survive?

------
icco
Pretty interesting. Is there an equivalent to 500 or YC in Canada? What are
the best tech cities in Canada? I know Vancouver and Quebec have universities
with good CS programs, but that's about it.

~~~
elchief
Ottawa is a tech hub, as that's where the federal gov't is.

Waterloo is also important, as that's where our "MIT" is, and Google etc have
offices there.

All the easy money's in Calgary due to oil.

~~~
analyst74
Unfortunately all that easy money in Calgary is not going into startups, its
sister city Edmonton has a much better and rapidly growing startup scene.

------
sim0n
I imagine that the one year of required secondary education will prevent a lot
of founders from applying for this visa (I would be one of them) but I can
understand why it's required.

------
tomjen3
There is only one problem with this: it is Canada, not the US.

Why would I want to do a start-up in Canada, rather than say the UK or Germany
or Chile?

~~~
kenster07
Care to elaborate?

~~~
tomjen3
Yes, what does Canada offer that the UK doesn't? Same language, both have a
Queen both have a functional government that mostly respects other peoples
rights.

The US has a great ecosystem for start-ups. Does Canada?

~~~
rdouble
If you're from another commonwealth country it's a lot easier to migrate to
Canada than it is the USA. Regarding what could be more attractive than the
UK: there's more open space, cheaper housing, better schools, mountains, etc.

~~~
klipt
I don't think Canada gives any preference to immigrants from Commonwealth
countries.

------
danielsiders
I would rather have temporary worker visas for startup employees. Our biggest
labor problem has been the difficulty of getting programmers who didn't go to
college into the US. We'd move to Canada in a heartbeat if we could get the
developers we wanted colocated with us.

How about N temporary worker visas/amount of VC funding?

~~~
cunac
Your complaint is because US based developers are expensive? I hope that you
don't think developers in Canada are dime a dozen.

~~~
danielsiders
No, I'd like to be able to bring awesome people from Russia, the Czech
Republic, Israel, etc who often don't have college degrees. If Canada would
let me do that, I'd move my startup to Canada.

~~~
cunac
Canadian IT labour market is not so bad so you should profit by fact of moving
here and have access to current pool and relatively lower wages then in SV.

Is should actually remove both of your pain points cost and qualified labor.

Start packing :-)

~~~
danielsiders
The issue isn't general supply, but specific engineers. Half our team is
Canadian now, but many of the people we'd like to work with but can't are
located elsewhere and Canadian immigration law is very unfriendly to
immigrants without college degrees.

------
jhull
If an American VC firm opens an office in Toronto, does that count as Canadian
VC money?

Seems like a good idea for American VCs to open incubators in Canada. Would
allow them to global deal flow while only worrying about the regulations of
Canada. Plus its quicker to fly there.

~~~
bzmwillemsen
The Angel's and VC's need to be "designated." So simply starting a firm in
Canada may not grant the firm access to this program. Looking through the very
short list of "designated" VC's it is quite obvious (from a Canadian's point
of view) that these are all very well established Canadian companies.

------
dshanahan
I'm an American who started a startup in Vancouver, BC before this Visa
existed. If anyone has any questions about doing that or would like
suggestions/introductions to people in the area let me know.

------
joshsharp
Surprised nobody has mentioned
[http://startupvisa.ca/](http://startupvisa.ca/) which has a list of investors
and a lot of help on the whole process.

------
kamakazizuru
looks great - does any one here have any experience with any of the listed
VCs/Angels? I can only spot 1-2 familiar names..

------
mjhea0
i know that business taxes are relatively low, but what about personal incomes
taxes? how will this affect having to pay double taxes (both us and canada). i
believe you can write off the taxes you pay overseas, but you have to pay the
difference in us taxes.

~~~
elchief
I paid almost exactly the same income tax in Florida as I did in British
Columbia. But I got free health care in BC.

Gas, cigarettes and booze are definitely cheaper in the USA though.

~~~
refurb
That seems odd to me. BC has one of the highest income tax rates in Canada and
Florida has no state income tax.

Using the online paycheck calculators I get:

$50K/yr in BC would net you $36,758 after taxes.

$50K/yr in Florida would net you $38,296 after taxes.

~~~
elchief
BC has the lowest income tax rate of any province:

[http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-
Calculators-2013-Pe...](http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-
Calculators-2013-Personal-Tax)

~~~
refurb
Obviously things have changed since I was last living there!

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falk
If Canada wants to attract start-ups, they should get rid of software patents.

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thehme
This is really interesting. I wonder why the US has not encouraged this more.

~~~
untog
Because Congress is incapable of passing laws, even ones they agree on.

[http://startupvisa.com/](http://startupvisa.com/)

------
devb0x
I don't have that kind of money.

Is it easy to get a VISA as a developer?

~~~
potatolicious
Skilled immigration is a popular track for immigration to Canada. How easy it
is depends on how highly you score based on the government's criteria:

[http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm](http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm)

The primary contributors to points is education background, linguistic ability
(English and/or French), work experience, and age.

It takes a fair amount of time (compared to H-1B or other US work visas),
since this is considered actual immigration, not just a work permit (those are
available too). If you are accepted you become a full-fledged permanent
resident (with all of the social benefits afforded to all Canadians), not a
temporary worker with a ticking clock.

~~~
gabemart
Unless I'm reading the form incorrectly, it looks as if an eligibility
requirement is 1 year of work experience in a very limited range of fields,
given here:

[http://www.workpermit.com/canada/employee_list.htm](http://www.workpermit.com/canada/employee_list.htm)

Am I correct in thinking that if you don't have experience in one of these
fields, you're not eligible to even apply?

~~~
potatolicious
That is correct. The skilled immigration program is not a catch-all for smart
people, it's specifically designed to grow the economy in a planned direction,
as well as to fulfill shortages that are anticipated to/already exist.

~~~
gabemart
I'm actually no longer sure that I am right, unless you have another source.
The website states [1]:

    
    
        > You must have at least one year of full time experience in the last ten years in a management or
        > professional or highly skilled occupation. These are listed as Skill Type O, Skill Type A or Skill
        > Type B on the National Occupation Classification List. You will find further details in our 
        > skilled worker guide.
    

At first reading, it would seem that only "shortage occupations" [2] meet this
criterion. However, the precise language would suggest that any occuption with
an NOC skill type of 0, A or B qualifies. That would suggest any job with a
NOC code beginning with 0 or with the second digit 1 or 2 would qualify [3].

Please let me know if I'm wrong about this.

[1]
[http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm](http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm)

[2]
[http://www.workpermit.com/canada/employee_list.htm](http://www.workpermit.com/canada/employee_list.htm)

[3]
[http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/FAQ.aspx](http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/FAQ.aspx)

~~~
potatolicious
Yeah, I'm pretty confused now that I read the official federal government
site. I suggest you contact a lawyer if you want a definitive answer.

But my reading of it:

\- If you _do not_ have a job offer, you must fall under a listed shortage
occupation (i.e., not the entirety of the Type 0, A, and B lists).

\- If you _do_ have a job offer (a good enough job offer, at that) in a Type
0, A, or B occupation, you do not need to be in a shortage class.

This makes some logical sense. If you don't have a guaranteed job coming into
Canada, it makes sense for the government to ensure you are in a shortage
occupation to maximize your odds of actually being employed.

------
oscargrouch
Nah.. Think i will pass.. i prefer establish myself in Rio (already a
brazillian citizen by birth .. rsrs) better weather.. same level of funding ..

but it kind of have make me wonder.. for some time.. (pretty good news anyway)

------
raverbashing
Looks interesting.

You can apply as soon as the PAFSO strike ends...

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jathu
YES! FUCK YES! Go Canada!

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rogerchucker
Let's say an average person has a great idea but to come up with that idea she
had to go through a lot of schooling and industry experience. Also she needed
to earn enough to have a solid 11-13K bank balance. I have a feeling to attain
these objectives that person would have to be in her mid-30s. How does a
person at that age naturally adapt to a new country, when all she has
experienced and adapted to so far is another culture in another country?

~~~
geoka9
Most of the new immigrants I know in Canada are in their early 30s. It turns
out that this is the age when you are most likely to qualify for the skilled
worker immigrant visa, based on your education, experience and savings.

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ronilan
Had I been younger, and had no permanant status in North America, I would have
followed this with whole my heart.

File the paper work, pay the fees and when the visa is stamped, just pack a
small car and drive north.

Too bad I'm too old...

... and that I already did just that a decade ago... :D

~~~
wiradikusuma
How old are you? What's the max age for this?

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sneak
Ha, low taxes.

They forgot the big one:

* FREE SNOW

