
Major US carriers announce principles for unlocking devices - shawndumas
http://www.techhive.com/article/2079405/all-five-major-us-carriers-agree-to-let-you-unlock-your-phone-anytime-you-want.html
======
mikestew
"If you've bought something you should be able to do whatever you want with
it, whether it’s modifying it, or unlocking it. You shouldn't need a massive
corporation's permission."

If you think $200 buys you an iPhone, you're sadly deluded. "$200 with 2 year
contract" means you haven't bought anything, you're still paying the mortgage
with every phone bill. If you want to buy something and "do whatever you want
with it", Apple, Google, and a host of others will sell you an unlocked phone.
And it will cost a bit more than $200 (though the Nexus 5at $349 isn't too far
off).

On the other hand, if you're fed up with your carrier and would like to
switch, you're free to do so. I just did it with AT&T. Walked into a T-Mobile
store, asked them to transfer our numbers. The next day I called AT&T and
asked, "how much do I owe for the ETF?" I paid the $225/phone (that's how fed
up with AT&T I was) over the phone with AT&T. Wait a few days for their
accounting system to catch up, go to the web page and enter the IMEI for both
phones, and two days later the phones are unlocked. Slapped the T-Mobile SIMs
into the iPhones and we were on the air.

I just don't get the sentiment of "unlock my free-with-contract phone two
months into my contract, you bastards!" It's not your phone. Now, if Verizon,
Sprint, or $YOUR_CARRIER don't as readily unlock your phone as AT&T after you
pay the ETF or your contract is up, I'll stand with you in your complaint.
Otherwise, I don't see the issue.

~~~
StavrosK
So when you get a car loan and buy a car, the bank can dictate where and how
you can drive and service it? I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of
confusion of ideas that could provoke such a sentiment.

The carrier lends you the money, you agree to pay it back, that's as far as
their involvement goes. This is standard practice in Europe. You get a phone
for cheap, you agree to pay monthly installments, you can throw the phone off
a cliff or install BeOS on it, for all the carrier cares.

~~~
smtddr
The difference here is that with a car loan, even if you drive off the car lot
and right into the ocean and leave it there you still legally owe the full
price of the car to the bank and they can come after you if need be. Cellphone
companies make money off of you from the 2 years of data/voice plan service.
If I go sign up with AT&T for a $200 iPhone5 then unlock it and go to T-Mobile
the next day, AT&T got screwed. Maybe smartphones should just be sold at full
price and you either pay it in full or get a bank loan, like cars & houses.
But we know if we did that, a whole bunch of people suddenly wouldn't be able
to afford the phones and the whole market around cellphones would have to
change dramatically.

~~~
salient
How exactly? You're still in a 2 year contract. Whether you're using
T-mobile's SIM or not is completely irrelevant. You signed a 2 year contract
with AT&T and you're paying them every last time until that period expires.
Unlocking the phone changes nothing.

Unless, you actually interrupt the contract with AT&T, but in that case it's
not much different than it is today, and you just pay the ETF and you're on
your merry way.

~~~
smtddr
Because the contract isn't the same as a bank loan. They're suppose to be
making money on the voice/data usage for 2 years, but you're not using the
AT&T sim card anymore. I thought the person I was replying to wasn't happy
with the ETF fee since he was debating with the mikestew who said he just paid
ETF to make the carrier switch. If we're all in agreement that the current
business model needs the ETF fee before unlocking, then I guess I have nothing
to say. But anyone who wants their phone unlocked without paying ETF is
missing the part where carriers would get screwed on high-end phones.

Get a $200 iphone5 from AT&T, next day unlock it without paying ETF and get a
cheap prepaid T-Mobile sim and never use the AT&T sim again; thus not paying
AT&T's voice/data fees _(and we all know they get you on overages)_. That'd be
a problem for the current business model. To make up for the lack of overage-
charges they'd have to make the phones more expensive or raise the monthly
minimum charge.

NOTE: I understand the awkward issue of travel though. I made the mistake of
using my AT&T sim in Nigeria once. Maybe smartphones should accept difference
SIMs after it determines its in a country other than where it was bought. But
of course, then I go to amazon.co.uk and order an iPhone5 to be sent to
America. ;)

~~~
stevenwei
> Get a $200 iphone5 from AT&T, next day unlock it without paying ETF and get
> a cheap prepaid T-Mobile sim and never use the AT&T sim again; thus not
> paying AT&T's voice/data fees(and we all know they get you on overages).

Huh? You would still have to pay your monthly contract to AT&T even if you no
longer used the AT&T sim.

~~~
smtddr
If you're not using the AT&T sim, then you can never incur overage. I don't
have the data to back it up, but I'm pretty sure overages are a significant
part of their profits. If I'm wrong about that then my argument falls apart
and I accept defeat.

~~~
DanBC
That just sounds like they are miss-selling their product and they should face
some kind of regulation to prevent it happening.

Caveat Emptor and everything, but routinely exploiting ignorant customers
should not be a business plan.

------
ars
This title and article are not accurate.

It's not whenever you want - just are just clearly documenting when they will
let you. For the actual info read here:

[http://www.ctia.org/docs/default-source/fcc-filings/ctia-
let...](http://www.ctia.org/docs/default-source/fcc-filings/ctia-letter-on-
unlocking.pdf)

In short:

Prepaid: 1 year.

Postpaid: When your contact is up.

Military: Upon deployment.

~~~
crazygringo
Who buys a phone "prepaid", that is locked?

I bought my iPhone straight from Apple, unlocked, to avoid it. Are there
phones you pay for in full, up-front, that are still only available locked?

~~~
simcop2387
Prepaid in this context i think is one of the cheap phones with no contract
that you can grab in some places like walmart or gas stations. So you've got
to have been using it for a year before you can unlock.

~~~
greenyoda
You can also buy prepaid, no-contract phones from major carriers like
T-Mobile. They're not all cheap; you can get a pre-paid smart phone.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I just bought an iPhone 5s from T-Mobile yesterday. I paid $650 for it
upfront. On a no contract plan. They won't unlock the phone for 45 days.

~~~
mikestew
That's disappointing. Is there a reason you didn't just buy an unlocked iPhone
directly from Apple? Or did you assume (just as I would have) that because you
paid full price it would be unlocked?

~~~
toomuchtodo
It was easier to walk into the T-Mobile store 5 minutes from my house than to
order from Apple or Amazon and wait. And I can live with 45 days.

------
gtr32x
In Canada the situation used to be same that you have to wait until after your
contract is over then you can unlock your phone for a petty fee. Fido has just
changed their policies early this year to allow unlocking for $50 within half
a year of starting a contract. Not sure about other carriers, but can't say
how glad I was to see this change as I come to US every few months.

Of course, still unfortunate that I have to pay the fee, though I'd rather
have this than in states where you still have to wait until your contract is
up.

~~~
ThatGeoGuy
This is likely due to the CRTC releasing a new wireless code back in June,
where they specified that "[c]arriers must offer consumers the ability to
unlock unsubsidized devices (ie. devices purchased at full price) at any
time." [1]

I'm not sure why you paid specifically $50 (as the cost should be specified at
the time of contract), as the policy was supposed to be 100% in effect as of
December 3rd. Unless of course I'm mistaken and Fido changed their policies
before this was introduced. Thankfully though, you can get your device
unlocked in Canada after up to 90 days, at your carrier's discretion [1].
(Though really, forcing a 90 day wait won't really affect much in the long run
if consumers start using this clause, so I expect most will just be willing to
unlock the phone fairly quickly as time goes on)

[1]
[http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6862/125/](http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6862/125/)

------
nachteilig
Does this mean that an out-of-contract Verizon iPhone that's unlocked
"internationally" but doesn't work on T-Mobile, etc. domestically can now be
fully unlocked to work with other domestic carriers? I know it has the proper
radios, so I've always assumed it wasn't fully unlocked.

------
shmerl
So, what's going on with repealing DMCA 1201 altogether? This development
shouldn't be used as an excuse not to fix the root of the problem.

------
sans_seraph
How about instead of writing new legislation against cell phone unlocking we
enforce the anti trust laws we already have?

~~~
eropple
Would you mind explaining how you think antitrust laws have any bearing on
this issue?

~~~
sans_seraph
Sim locking is purposely breaking the normal functionality of a device in
order to limit competition.

I wouldn't care so much if there were plenty of other affordable ways to get a
phone and coverage, but sim locking is so prevalent in the US that it's
unavoidable in many cases, and most phones you can get unlocked are incredibly
expensive.

~~~
eropple
OK, thanks. Now please explain how any of these companies fall under antitrust
definitions.

(I'll save you the effort: they don't. None have sufficient market share that
anyone would go after them and there are enough BYO provides to look at that
there's no way you'll win a claim you don't have choice.)

