
Golf courses across the nation are in crisis as memberships and money dwindle - cwan
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_45/b4154066785328.htm
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ojbyrne
Boo hoo. I golf, but the basic gist of this story is "tax payers used to
subsidize high-end golf courses for executives, then those tax breaks were
taken away, resulting in the growth of less-expensive golf courses that would
actually appeal to the taxpayers who were previously subsidizing the wealthy
members of the high-end courses."

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mhb
Tax break != tax payer subsidy

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jrockway
The government gets less money. The other taxpayers get fewer services, or the
government goes into debt.

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mhb
That's a curious way to look at it. Would you say that all the (infinite)
taxes I am not paying in excess of what I am paying are a subsidy from the
rest of you?

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codexon
Think about it this way. If everyone but me gets a 50% tax and I get a 0% tax,
does this seem fair?

Assuming that the government provides some value to society, doesn't this seem
like other people are paying their share to maintain the national
infrastructure more than I am?

Is this not a subsidy?

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mhb
I understand the inequity you're pointing out. But calling this a subsidy
suggests that there is some baseline that the government is justified in
taking and that what we retain is a subsidy that is allowed us by the good
grace of the government. Which is exactly backwards.

Your interpretation of what a subsidy is is also subject to the vagaries of
where you choose to set the baseline for the funding to which the government
is entitled. Is everything less than that a subsidy?

Also, in this case in particular, I'd guess that the people taking advantage
of the tax break for golf club membership are above whatever baseline you
would set.

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codexon
If you interpret the government as providing no value to society whatsoever,
then I could see your point.

However, if you believe the government does provide value, any baseline would
equalize your income with everyone else in the population, thus not really
decreasing the buying power of the money you earn.

The only part where this would not be the case is if the rulers kept most of
the money to themselves (a monarchy) or to a select group (unfortunately
happening with Goldman Sachs recently.).Then value of your money would truly
be unfairly decreased.

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travisjeffery
Anyone that doesn't believe me or other people here on HN saying that HN is
getting shittier (unrelated articles, quick unthoughtful comments and so on)
each day can just take a look at this submission and these comments.

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patio11
This is a truly fascinating financial look into a culture which is far, far
more foreign to me than Japan ever was. (Granted, they golf here, too. I still
don't get it. I mean, I know it is a networking tool and sort of like WoW for
"grownups" but, much like "grownups" vis-a-vis WoW, I just can't feel in my
bones how I would ever actually enjoy it.)

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human_v2
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise: golf is about getting trashed and seeing
if you can still manage to ever put the ball in the cup. While on a business
outing, the object of the game is now to play WORSE than the exec you are
there with. Golf is no longer a competition, but a social function. Turns out
I don't enjoy social functions OR golf.

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peterwwillis
It is a social game, but i'm not sure how much it's not as social as
basketball or any other sport really. Those who don't play for money or to win
an executive over (redundant) play in order to hang out with their friends.
The game itself has its own interesting skill to acquire, but I guess since it
doesn't have an athletic component it's lost in the "shuffle" of old person
games.

Still, I defer to George Carlin on my opinion about what we should do with
golf courses: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C7c-nZIyfc>

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ShabbyDoo
>In Cleveland, two clubs facing declining memberships, Sand Ridge and Mayfield

Since the 60's, the Mayfield Country Club has offered curling -- I think I was
told it's the only "dedicated" (not a hockey rink) curling ice in Ohio. I note
this purely for amusement. And, yes, I curled there once (the only time I have
ever curled).

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jrockway
I stopped reading after "superstition mountain". Maybe it's not the best idea
to build large fields of water-hungry grass in the middle of the desert.

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cruise02
I sense a bailout coming on.

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krav
Yawn.

