
$20 Cardboard Bicycle Could 'Change The World,' Inventor Says - rileycrane
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/10/15/162949884/for-about-20-cardboard-bicycle-could-change-the-world-inventor-says
======
tjic
There is a trend that cuts through the industrial design world (you can see a
new instance of it pop online every few hours) - the idea that the regular
market economy is missing the boat on some GENIUS idea that involves recycling
/ underlooked materials / sustainability, and that this genius idea can also
drastically cut costs.

I happen to love the Lego-block nature of cargo containers, and while doing
research on them first stumbled into this pattern: it seems that every third
design major comes up with the idea to use cargo containers as cheap pre-fab
houses. Well, it turns out that while cargo containers are relatively cheap,
they're really not all that good for housing - they're too small, they're
uninsulated, they need as much (or more) build out on the inside as a regular
house, they're harder to put windows into, etc.

The same sort of pattern appears with all sorts of other materials: people get
the idea that left over offcuts of wood at house construction sites can be
laminated into tables or bathtubs, that asphalt shingles and be ground up and
used as a flex fuel, that cardboard can be folded into bicycles, that what the
third world really needs is a cheap laptop with a hand-crank on the side, etc.

All of these schemes fail in similar ways:

* they ignore the huge amounts of evolved-in wisdom that long-held solutions have

* they ignore production costs

* they ignore labor costs (the "Earthship" underground house plans are great...but they implicitly assume that a thousand hours of labor swinging a sledgehammer is free)

* they ignore the costs of ancillary features (brakes on a bike, insulation on a house)

* they pretend that some materials are "green" and others are "anti-green".

* they often assume a superior attitude to people in the third world, assuming that first world design students have better ideas than millions of third world people who actually know what resources are available and what features are desirable.

Steel bicycles have a TON of evolved cleverness in them. They are the end
result of a fierce evolutionary winnowing.

If you're ever tempted to announce to the world that everything that's gone
before has been mistaken and you've got a solution for other people that's a
ton better, take a moment and think through all the OTHER criteria that these
people might consider relevant. You may have come up with a wonderful new idea
(it happens!), but chances are that there are good reasons that the idea has
not already been adopted.

~~~
anonymfus
Also serious ethical problem of targeting such solutions for third world
problems is that such products are not really intended to be produced in it.

Real third world bicycle is same as first world but with hand made steel
frame, because frames are most overpriced components:
<http://i.imgur.com/qpw0a.jpg> People use bicycles for decades and can afford
to buy or exchange it by parts ever in third world countries. If such
conventional bike cost 100 dollars and can last 20 years then cardboard bike
must last at least 4 years to be competitive. And people with unstable income
prefer long lasting solutions because there is probability that there will be
no money in future to buy replacement.

~~~
sukuriant
This isn't really on topic, but that bike with the rebar frame looks really
awesome and is a really neat design --- looks a lot more sturdy/reasonably
priced (if it's $100 total) than a cardboard bike.

~~~
woah
Extremely heavy.

~~~
prolepunk
Also I would want to fall from that bicycle even less then from a normal one.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I can understand that. I have a scar on my leg from a close encounter with
such rebar when I was 13 or sth.

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lifeisstillgood
But bicycles are already very cheap in India - a two second google gave me
this:

[http://www.fitjog.com/bicycles-for-weight-loss/atlas-
bicycle...](http://www.fitjog.com/bicycles-for-weight-loss/atlas-bicycles-for-
fitness.php)

At roughly 60USD that is a bike sold on the best SEO'd web site. What is sold
out of local garages will be less.

I am not a Indian native and I am not a developmental economist, but I cannot
see a _cardboard_ bicycle doing this
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/pingpongong/7855376404/> or this
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/aidg/533780375/>

The traditional Phillips style bike has a long pedigree - its brakes may be
useless and its long in the tooth but _everybody_ in SE Asia can fix one.

When a cardboard bike folds, you throw it away and get a new one.

I think the environment will still have a net win on steel.

~~~
rwbt
Yea, Bicycles are very cheap in India due to the large scale of production.
They also have specialized bikes for farmers, which help them carry around
multiple bags with ease.

Many, if not most of the young people in India own a Bicycle not for
recreation, but as a serious mode of transportation.

I will take a $60 steel Bicycle over a $20 cardboard bicycle anyday.

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wtvanhest
The cheapest brake pads available for bikes cost about $4.99 or roughly 25% of
the cost of what he says this bike could cost. So how exactly can you build
the remainder of a bike for $15.01?

It doesn’t make any sense at all.

At the end of the day, everyone would be better off if no one built cheap
bikes, and they only built high quality bikes that people would resell in a
used market as they got older. Riding a cheap bike is at best uncomfortable
and at worst dangerous.

[Added] Bicycle frames last for 20+ years, it doesn't seem like the
environment is really a factor here whatsoever.

~~~
Anechoic
_Bicycle frames last for 20+ years_

That's conservative - my mom has (steel) bike frames hanging in her garage
that date back to the 1970's that are in great shape and they've barely been
maintained in the interim. I'm guessing a well-maintained frame could last for
50 years.

~~~
dlhavema
My niece was given the little red bicycle my mom learned to ride a bike on
after my dad refinished it, the frame was great, just the aesthetics needed
touching up. This bike is in the running for 60 or 70+ years, which is
probably not an uncommon occurrence..

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error54
As an avid rider, I really like the concept and applaud his effort but I have
a few detractions.

-While it's a good idea to use recycled parts, no manufacturer is going to go through the trouble of creating a (conceivably multi-million dollar) factory to make these bikes and only sell them for twenty dollars.

-Let's not forget that $20 is still a heck of a lot of money in third world countries. Half the world lives on less than $2.50 a day[1].

-Bikes aren't that expensive or hard to come by, even in impoverished nations.

I think a real difference could be made if this guy set up a non-profit, sold
these cardboard bikes to people who really like live "green", and donated the
profits to the red cross or some other charity.

1-[http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-
sta...](http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats)

------
colinshark
This bike essentially requires the same skilled labor to build as a carbon
fiber bike. Its only claim to fame is that it doesn't use the $8 (guess) of
steel you need to build a standard bike frame.

The rest of the components cost about $90. It's competing with Chinese bikes.

The plan has not been thought through, but it's great news bait.

------
debacle
Really overstated headline from NPR - that seems to be a trend lately.

Regardless, I don't think the cardboard bike is going to change the world.
People have been experimenting with cardboard bikes for years, and they've
never caught on.

~~~
Vivtek
Yeah: "<amazing headline claim>, inventor says" is the first sentence, and my
heart fell.

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beering
You can already find real bikes for $20 in parts of the world like China.
Since the article doesn't say so, I guess that this bike has to be quite a bit
cheaper to make than $20 for it to be worthwhile, but then it'll be the labor
costs that outweigh the material costs by far.

~~~
marknutter
I'd wager he point isn't really the cost, it's that recycled materials are
being used.

~~~
reportingsjr
Metals are much easier to recycle than paper products.

To recycle metals you might need to do a bit of pre-processing, grind up
everything a bit, and throw it in a crucible to melt it down. 100% recyclable
and the same as new when recast.

To recycle paper you have to make sure everything is sorted (no plastic,
metal, etc in with your paper) and do a good amount of chemical processing and
the end result isn't as easily like "new" paper.

I don't see how this gives cardboard the edge in recycled materials use for a
bike.

~~~
morsch
While metal recycling might be simpler in terms of the process, paper
recycling might still be more efficient in terms of energy/volume or
money/volume.

~~~
morsch
Energy used for recycling paper: roughly 1000 kWh/short ton (Wikipedia).
Savings of about 60%.

Energy used for recycling aluminum: 700 kWh/short ton. (Various websites.)
Savings of about 95%!

I knew aluminum recycling was crazy efficient compared to refining it in the
first place, but I'm surprised it's the same or even cheaper per ton as paper.

~~~
jlgreco
Sidenote: Recycling aluminum _really_ makes sense when you consider the energy
you need to make it in the first place:

 _"Large, modern cells operate with a specific energy consumption of 5.9 to
6.4 kWh/lb of aluminum. The energy required to produce aluminum from scrap
metal is approximately 5% of that required for primary production"_

\- <http://www.eia.gov/emeu/mecs/iab/aluminum/page2e.html>

The differential there is fascinating I think.

------
utopkara
Consider this as a demonstration of cardboard as a material, not that of a
bike.

Now, if we are to prefer cardboard bikes for their environmental friendliness,
we would probably want to look at what else is used to make the material
strong. If it only works in combination with a bunch of toxic glues and
solvents, then one will need tons of marketing to create a hype with smoke and
mirrors to cover up that part of the picture.

I am excited about this project though. Because, in the end, even if we don't
get a $20 bike, we might get the knowledge of converting cardboard into a
cheap and easy to shape material we can play with at home for our own
projects.

------
jiggy2011
People in congested cities don't not ride bikes because they are too
expensive. You can get a second hand one on craigslist for not much more than
$20.

It's because:

1) They're lazy and don't like pedalling up hills

2) They're worried they'll get killed by a car

3) They're worried they'll get a puncture and be late or have their pants
ripped on the chainring.

4) They have stuff to carry around and don't want to mess with a trailer.

~~~
pavel_lishin
5) They don't want to arrive at their destination all sweaty.

Maybe it's only a problem for me (and I do tend to sweat a lot) but biking a
hundred blocks to work without being able to take a shower after is not a
viable option.

------
gavindouglas
The problem: Get more people to start using bikes worldwide.

The solution: Make cities more bike friendly.

Its going to come down to urban planning, incentives, and community programs.
Cheaper more affordable bikes are certainly a component of increasing
adoption, but if you really want to move the needle we need the developed and
developing world to look a bit more like the Netherlands, and not Texas.

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piyush_soni
This bicycle is designed in SolidWorks, the software I make :) ... Just saying
...

------
brador
Is the cardboard still viable in wet weather? Does it have a special coating?

~~~
Bill_Dimm
"...the cardboard is treated with a secret concoction made of organic
materials to give it its waterproof and fireproof qualities..."

~~~
jl6
"Organic" - is there a "green baloney detection kit" that outs stuff like
this?

~~~
Bill_Dimm
That's the part that caught your eye? I'm still trying to figure out why a
bicycle needs to be fireproof.

------
DanBC
A neat idea. I'm gently worried about how good it is to ride.

Give people a bike that rides well and they're likely to continue to ride it.
Give people a bike that they don't like and they're not going to ride that
bike, and will be less likely to ride any bike in future.

Still good luck to them. Some places have horrific road accident death rates
so getting people out of cars, off mopeds, and onto bicycles could help.

~~~
rileycrane
Check out the video. It actually seems like a nice ride
<https://vimeo.com/37584656>

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webjprgm
I think this is awesome in and of itself. I don't care if it turns out to be
super cheap and green. $20 just seems entirely unrealistic to me. Half of that
cost (at least) would be the tires alone (at least it looks like he's got
tires on the outside of the cardboard wheel). But a cardboard bike? Just plain
awesome.

------
afterburner
No-one seems to have mentioned that cross-winds would be tough on this bike,
with its wide flat panels.

------
jdietrich
I would like to coin an axiom:

The practical impact of a new invention is inversely proportional to the
attention it receives from the popular press.

Weird bicycles, 3d printers, "breakthrough" cancer drugs, alternative energy
sources, etc ad nauseum.

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duiker101
Letting aside the real possibilities of the project, this sentence said by the
creator to me has no value whatsoever...I mean find me a founder that doesn't
think his product can change the world...

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mixmastamyk
Awesome. Was walking next to a bike store this weekend with $5000 bikes in the
windows and was just plain gobsmacked. Could only utter "WTF" a few times.

Perhaps this one can restore some sanity.

~~~
nl
_$5000 bikes in the windows_

Clearly they were keeping the expensive bikes[1][2] away from the windows
then?

[1] [http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/worlds-fastest-
bike-m...](http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/03/worlds-fastest-bike-mclaren-
and-specialized-team-up-with-a-venge-ance/)

[2] [http://www.competitivecyclist.com/frame/2013-wilier-
zero-7-r...](http://www.competitivecyclist.com/frame/2013-wilier-
zero-7-record-eps-complete-bike--11147.html)

------
antonioevans
Very cool use of materials. I could totally see this mass produced for
children learning how to ride bikes and even cities testing out the "share-a-
bike" program.

~~~
quantumhobbit
I immediately thought of some sort of share a bike program or better yet
disposable bikes. For $20 visitors to a city could buy a bike ride it for a
week or so then recycle the cardboard, assuming the cardboard is recyclable
after whatever treatments it goes through.

Although I doubt the $20 estimate without a way to automate production. The
video made it seem like a fairly labor intensive practice.

~~~
ramchip
But... why not just lend regular, cheap bikes and reuse them? Reuse is a lot
less expensive than recycling.

I visited a city last week (Matsumoto) that has this service, they lend cheap
city bikes for free by the day. Not even an ID card needed, you just write
your name and phone number and go. It's a fantastic service when visiting.

~~~
yozmsn
Seems like a great way to loose a lot of bikes.

~~~
ramchip
It's been working fine for years, though. I think part of it is being in
Japan, and part of it is that the bikes just don't have much resale value. No
point stealing creaky, cheap city bikes.

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patrickgzill
My first question was: what happens if you bump a curb at speed? How does the
cardboard handle the impact?

~~~
sopooneo
Which relates to a question I had about this bike when I first read about it.
The article admits it has a shorter lifespan than a traditional bike, but why?
How do you know it's no good any longer? Does it just get hard to pedal after
n days? Or does it fail catastrophically after an average of n days of use? If
the latter, that's a show stopper.

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krosaen
more on this from the TQ:

[http://www.economist.com/news/technology-
quarterly/21567200-...](http://www.economist.com/news/technology-
quarterly/21567200-transport-cardboard-bicycle-sounds-plausible-chocolate-
teapot)

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circa
watch out for those puddles!!!

