
Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything - 6ren
http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~kilcup/262/feynman.html?repostindays=413
======
ahelwer
This is a very powerful message. I've been trying for three years now to
recapture the feeling that sucked me into computer science. It was an
introductory CS course, and the assignment was to draw a scene using Python's
turtle graphics module. The idea I had was to draw cube structures in one-
point perspective, as I had long done on graph paper. This was in ignorance of
how the entire field of computer graphics worked, and so my method was
laughable in its simplicity. Analogous to Feynman and the tap water curve, I
suppose; I was immensely proud of the final result[0].

That very week I switched my major from physics to computer science. The code
I wrote then was truly, truly awful[1], but the feeling it brought the first
time a line of cubes was correctly drawn was incredible. I, and only I had
made it do that.

I've not felt that way again. Programming contests bring only the feeling of
excelling in competition. Algorithm textbooks bring only the short-lived
satisfaction of having a magic trick explained to you. Now it seems any time I
research a new project I'm drowned in best-practice recommendations and
intense fear of writing my own extensive library when a tested, vetted, and
fully functional copy exists elsewhere.

What to do? I would do anything to recapture that feeling.

[0] <http://i.imgur.com/wih35.png> (find the tetris pieces!)

[1]*
[https://github.com/ahelwer/UofC/blob/master/cpsc217/as3/grap...](https://github.com/ahelwer/UofC/blob/master/cpsc217/as3/graphics.py)

* If you want to run the script, you'll need the modified turtle graphics module found in the same github directory.

~~~
shadowfiend
My advice? Write personal projects where you can tell people to go to hell ;)
Let me elaborate for a second though: when I work on a personal project, if I
want to implement a functionality and there's a library that does it, I write
it myself anyway. If I need functionality and I don't really want to write it,
I look for a library that does it.

Personal projects give you freedoms that professional ones can't. If your
personal project isn't quite as stable because you rolled your own middleware
in Node instead of using something that's already built, you can tell people
to go to hell. These are projects that exist first to let you explore,
interact, and build. Perhaps they exist second to provide utility to you. Only
as a distant third do they exist to provide utility to others.

Now, that isn't to say that such a project can't or won't evolve into a
professional one, or that you won't decide to make utility to others a higher
goal. At that point, you'll have to see about revisiting some of your early
decisions. But to me, what keeps things fun in that context is exactly that:
creating something for me and no one else. Because then there are no rules and
no constraints: just a canvas, a paintbrush, and paint.

~~~
bguthrie

      when I work on a personal project, if I want to implement
      a functionality and there's a library that does it, I
      write it myself anyway.
    

That's a great idea, and I'm going to do that the next time I find a library
for something I'd rather play with instead. Thanks!

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gjm11
Interesting. URL ends with "?repostindays=413". And it happens to be 413 days
since the same page was submitted before:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2291773>. What's going on here?

~~~
kcbanner
Hm, that is interesting.

~~~
izak30
Several of the OPs submissions have ?repost on them, maybe just to get around
the repost catching, maybe it's totally automated.

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sgentle
I can never forget that chapter and how well Feynman expressed his burnout.
It's hard to imagine that even charming roguish nobel prizewinning physicists
who play the bongos can feel useless sometimes. I think most likely everyone
has, but it doesn't make for a very interesting blog post unless it's followed
with "but I turned it all around with the Pomodoro technique!"

Nobody picks a date and says "from that point on, I'm going to grow up and
lose my sense of wonder", but still it happens. I worry, sometimes, about how
dangerous slow changes can be. The boiling frog thing turned out to be a myth,
but the fact that it still persists as pseudo-fact tells you something about
how well it aligns with our experiences. I saw a child today play for, honest
to god, about half an hour with a low concrete wall. What if I'm just getting
a little bit less playful every day?

With achievement I feel like you have an internal zero point that you measure
from. But the zero has a dangerous tendency to climb. When I was a child I
felt like the zero was at, well, zero. People got impressed if I just managed
to fall over with gusto. Now I'm a proper software developer and aspiring
startup guy, the zero is more like being well paid writing good code for
successful projects that make an impact but are also somehow deeply
meaningful, about which I make clever insights while blogging, tweeting,
plussing and getting a million internet points on Hacker News.

Even if it's not quite that bad, expectations build up pretty quickly, and
it's easy to end up worried about being in the negative. Why can't it all just
be positive? Imagine if you could return to the days when just getting
something to compile was a victory that would stay with you for days. I don't
really know if it's possible, but I have been making some attempts to try.

I read a book on Stoicism that was referenced on Tim Ferriss's blog (that he
writes from the deck of his jumbo yacht on the shores of lake always
successful), and it actually had a lot of great stuff to say about how to stop
expectations wrecking your happiness. But even armed with the ability to bring
up Marcus Aurelius at dinner parties, it's tough going. I've cut down to one
day a week of work (and pretty fun work with a low responsibility factor) on
the theory that I should undersubscribe myself for a while and let myself
naturally gravitate towards things I like without an expectation they'll be my
life's work, or even very good at all.

That's meant I've spent a lot more time doing things, but I still feel a sense
of residual nervousness that things I do will be bad. My website, for example,
has been blank page for nigh unto half a decade now, just because I want to
write something good on there and I'm not sure whatever I write will be good.
Old habits die hard, I guess.

Having written this now I look back and it seems long and rambly without any
particular point other than what goes through my head when I think about that
part of Feynman's book. I feel an overwhelming urge to go back and tidy it up,
try to tie it all into a nice conclusion or something. Maybe that's the point,
though. Can't I just be proud of the fact that I wrote something without
worrying that I should be able to do better? Maybe we're all standing around
worried but nobody says anything because it would ruin our carefully tended
never-fail image. Alright, I'm going to post it. Here goes...

~~~
denzil
From what you wrote I'm getting some feeling that you worry a quite bit about
many things. I used to do that too. I was always afraid, what would other
people think of me, if I said this or did that. But a while ago, while trying
to find a way to become less shy, I ran into blog of person who works as
charisma coach [1]. And when he was talking about starting conversations with
people you don't know on the street, he said quite interesting thing about
messing up: Either you will have a nice chat or you will have funny story. So
in both cases it will go great. And while I still don't have courage to talk
to people on street, I started applying this in the rest of my life. And my
life started getting much better, since I stopped to worry so much. I made new
friends and got closer with the ones I had and I became happier too. So, try
to enjoy life more and worry less. (:

[1] <http://www.yourcharismacoach.com/>

~~~
josscrowcroft
Marcus, the guy behind Your Charisma Coach, is a very old friend of mine (I'm
the one filming the bungee video!) - I've watched him overcome some of life's
hardest worries and deepest funks with all the charm and charisma of Feynmann
himself!

I was really pleased to see you referencing this site - the Feynmann piece
reminded me of his attitude to interaction and life generally.

------
sown
I tried writing some software for fun and while it worked for a little while,
I'm still burned out. Now what?

~~~
rglover
Just find another creative outlet. When I can't come up with a solution to a
design I'm working on, I just pick up my guitar and play for a bit. Generally
the excitement from _that_ exercise gets me back in the mindset to work on the
design I'd left. Of course your thing doesn't have to be music. Just explore
different topics of interest and see what sticks.

~~~
conesus
I do the dishes. Since I can go into automatic mode, the hot water loosens me
up and I get to daydream. More often than not these dreams can turn into
future features for my project. Any chance I can take to daydream I take.

It's a lucid dream that you can get to work immediately after. Letting y
imagination run has pushed me to build many things I wouldn't have rationally
considered. The dishes are the most sure fire quotidian way to get there.

~~~
thenonsequitur
Have you seen the book "Imagine: How Creativity Works" by Jonah Lehrer? It
explains how the above process works in a general way, and it's really
interesting. It's a pop-science book, to be sure, but still a really good
read.

[http://www.amazon.com/Imagine-Creativity-Works-Jonah-
Lehrer/...](http://www.amazon.com/Imagine-Creativity-Works-Jonah-
Lehrer/dp/0547386079)

------
s2m
I think John Cleese does pretty good job corroborating the phenomenon in this
speech:

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VShmtsLhkQg)

~~~
Lewton
That was a very interesting talk (that provided surprisingly concrete advice).
Thank you

------
JoeAltmaier
Takeaway: its nice to be tenured.

~~~
tzs
Did Feynman have tenure at Cornell?

~~~
BlackJack
I'm pretty confident that Feynman did not have tenure at Cornell _at the time
of this story_. He didn't need it though - he had free reign to do whatever
because Hans Bethe was there.

------
docgnome
This is probably the only chapter of that book I really enjoyed. It mostly
felt like an "I'm so awesome" series of events. But this was a really valuable
chapter. If you feel burned out on something you loved it can be hard to
figure out what made you love it. Hacking CRUD apps for 8 hours a day for
weeks, months, years can be seriously depressing. CRUD just isn't that
interesting, but it is what a lot of programming jobs involve.

I'm really rediscovering the joy of programming by teaching intro programming
classes at the local community college. To some extent it's let me relive the
first time I realized I could make the computer do what I wanted, not what
someone else said I was allowed to.

------
Nevaeh88888
There is actually a video of Feynman himself elaborating further:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzPfKI4b-dg&feature=relmf...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzPfKI4b-dg&feature=relmfu)

I would say that the death of his first wife Arlene and the aftermaths of the
Trinity Project affected Feynman greatly, as exuberant as he is usually.

Feynman's magnificent exuberance and puzzle solving enthusiasm was also
illustrated during his last days, where his coworker Christopher Sykes
remarked "Look at this man. He faces the abyss. He doesn't know whether he is
going to live through this week. But he was consumed by it, and he worked on
it all day long...." <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzg1CU8t9nw#t=1h11m46s>

Feynman was the epitome of the "Doing things for the fun of it" philosophy.
His last words to his artist friend Jirayr was "Don't worry about anything~!
Go out and have a good time~!"
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzg1CU8t9nw#t=1h32m10s>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzg1CU8t9nw#t=1h32m10s>

~~~
Nevaeh88888
Apologies for the double URL at the end of my comment. I was rushing to class.

------
comet
This reminds me of a Zen Buddhist text that goes like this - “The Master in
the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his
labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his education and his
recreation, his love and his religion. He hardly knows which is which. He
simply pursues his vision of excellence in everything he does, leaving others
to determine whether he is at work or at play. To him, he is always doing
both.”

~~~
donniezazen
I would like to know the source, please.

~~~
smanek
Use the Google, Luke.

The first hit on searching for the quote explains its history:
<http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/08/27/master/>

~~~
donniezazen
Alright!! Obi-Wan Kenobi.

------
dethstarr
I think this also alludes to his talent more than simply his burnout. For him,
physics came naturally and he enjoyed. He happened to get a Nobel Prize while
doing what he did for fun.

We should all follow our natural tendencies in order to do what we want.
Whenever you fight it, it creates a cognitive dissonance within you that makes
you feel depressed and unworthy sometimes.

Great post.

------
prezjordan
I'm only 19 years old, so I can't speak for many. However, I've found that
when I (or my friends) suffer from this "the excitement is gone" bug, I
recommend learning how to program web applications. They let you make
something big that can instantly be deployed to millions, and some frameworks
like Ruby on Rails have a veyr low barrier of entry.

Also, with web applications you get to make websites, and experience the
thrill of crazy traffic, ad revenue, and making sure people have a good time.

Web apps is what brought the excitement back to me. Again, I'm 19 so I'll most
likely end up finding another vehicle for my excitement in the near future.

~~~
thenonsequitur
Interesting. As a professional web developer with ten years of experience
behind me, my cure (well, one of my cures) is the opposite: getting re-
acquainted with making desktop games. They let you make something fun that can
instantly be played ;).

~~~
fizx
Also, desktop apps don't involve wearing a pager ;)

------
Drbble
Was Feynman talking about precession (like in a top or a planet) ?

------
dschobel
vs "If it isn't going in a text-book or you can't sell it, don't bother." --my
thesis advisor

------
paulhauggis
I've only gotten burned out when I was forced to work on projects I hated for
long periods of time.

I guess I've been lucky in the fact that I've never truly been so burned out
that I've stopped coding completely. I still get that feeling that I used to
get when I first started writing software 16 years ago.

The key is to have interesting personal projects. Even if I'm working on a
project I hate, I can always find some piece of it that I like (and I can use
for future projects).

~~~
flatline
Having a personal project, or even something I'm just studying on the side,
gives me a feeling of freedom and control over my life which I increasingly
feel less of in other areas, with marriage, a mortgage, children, and
especially a job with projects that I hate. Not that those things aren't all
fine (well maybe not the bad job), but not being beholden to anyone else,
having the pleasure to mess up or explore dead ends without worrying about the
cost, are very nice in the face of all of life's other responsibilities. I
think this goes back to Feynman's spirit of play, but there is more to it than
just "having fun" in my opinion, at least it's a lot more complex than that
for me personally.

