
Bitcoin blow as fund drops U.S. exchange application - uptown
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-etp/bitcoin-blow-as-fund-drops-u-s-exchange-application-idUSKCN1C30CK
======
nwah1
It says this fund is still traded at unofficial exchanges at prices a number
of times higher than the value of the bitcoin it holds. The multiple layers of
speculative mania involved in that boggles the mind.

~~~
clarkmoody
Different prices at different trading venues speaks to the difficulty of
moving funds quickly between them. When those hurdles are overcome, such a
glaring arbitrage opportunity will disappear.

Would you consider it "speculative mania" if GBTC traded at a steep discount
to all other exchanges?

~~~
jayd16
You're probably correct, but...

>Would you consider it "speculative mania" if GBTC traded at a steep discount
to all other exchanges?

This is as shallow an argument as "If Jimmy broke his leg getting hit by a
car, would you say I got hit by a car if I broke my leg?"

If you were also playing in traffic, then yeah.

------
_callcc
To get live data from ICE--the exchange that withdrew the request--I'm
currently paying a broker $120/month.

By comparison, just about every crypto exchange currently offers push feeds
and historical data for free. In most cases you don't even need to sign in.

In some sense this is a measure of the immaturity of crypto markets.

But it's also a reminder that with main institutional players moving in, the
barriers to entry will go way up.

We'll probably start to see more brokers and vendors and more
consolidation/buyouts of the crypto exchanges.

~~~
josh2600
As a fund manager, I wish there was a data warehousing service I could pay for
with a queryable by the minute (or better granularity) API that captured
multiple exchanges across multiple countries for the top 50 coins.

I would pay a lot monthly for that product. Such a pro-level service doesn't
exist at all yet.

Also there aren't any derivatives or futures to speak of yet (don't point out
the existing futures markets, they have no volume).

Source: I run CryptoLotus, a crypto hedge fund.

~~~
jameskegel
Reading what you describe, I think Coinigy does this currently. I have a
premium account and use it as an 'exchange aggregator' for my trade portfolio,
to trade on and trade between many different exchanges with many trade pairs,
and I believe it offers an API so that I could essentially abstract their
frontend from the process. I pay about 20 dollars a month.

~~~
LrnByTeach
Yes, Good source for BTC historical data

[https://www.coinigy.com/bitcoin-data/](https://www.coinigy.com/bitcoin-data/)

~~~
josh2600
BTC is easy. There are a million sources for it. The altcoins are the hard
ones.

~~~
jameskegel
Which trade pairs are you looking for that Coinigy doesn't track and service
already?

------
ringaroundthetx
Its been priced in that nobody expects the SEC to approve that application.

But pay attention to this space, the guy who worked on the Winklevoss Bitcoin
ETF - which got rejected too - has taken the job at the SEC of approving ETFs.
The last guy finally quit because of some red herring about supporting the
trump administration or something (the Chairwoman Commissioner quit too)

I love when a power vacuum gets people I like in government, especially when
nobody is noticing.

~~~
sova
Whoa. So the likelihood of an SEC-backed coin exchange is... nonzero??

~~~
benmowa
well if crowdfunding can get OK'd ..... why not crypto?

[https://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-249.html](https://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-249.html)

~~~
ringaroundthetx
Crowdfunding was OK'd by Congress in the financial reform bill of 2010 and the
JOBS act of 2012, it took the SEC 3 additional years of dragging their feet to
be forced to be "okay" with it, and the SEC introduced many compromises which
makes crowdfunding under those regulations to be dead-on-arrival with the 1
million usd limit and similar costs as other kinds of fund raising.

Despite that, understand that crypto enjoys no such luxury from Congress, and
what we are talking about here has nothing to do with crowdfunding via crypto
like the ICOs, but instead digital commodity trust ETFs

~~~
sova
Establishing giants in the bitcoinosphere, effectively?

~~~
ringaroundthetx
yes, they've brought this on themselves. there is a vast conscience of ideas
and an even vaster risk taking public, that has been shut out of the markets
for reasons such as lacking pedigree or preexisting wealth.

------
kobeya
GBTC is a regulatory dodge that does not reliably track the price of bitcoin.
As someone who wants a bitcoin ETF, I’m certain the SEC would not have
approved the listing of GBTC and very confused as to why ICE (who should know
better) ever thought they would.

------
orthecreedence
Huge blow to bitcoin. It's down a whopping 3%.

I think it'd be great to be able to trade BTC on a regular stock exchange, but
I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen. Also, I think the big
players who have an interest in speculating are already holding and not
sitting around thinking "aww rats, it went up another 50% this week, if only
we could buy it on the stock market!" Or maybe they are and once it hits the
market it'll shoot to 20k. Who knows.

~~~
noitsnot
Mark Cuban's bubble tweet gave it a bigger slide. I'm not sure where it's
headed but it sure is a wild ride.

------
xutopia
That's overstated. I can already exchange Bitcoin easily and it's the best
return I have of all my funds.

~~~
xbzbanna
It would generally be appropriate to say things like "was the best return" or
"has been the best return" when describing past price appreciation. "Is the
best return" could be reserved for something like a stable source of income.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
Many people earn income in bitcoin or cryptocurrency and would consider the US
dollar the poor investment or purchase.

It is all a matter of perspective which simple wasn't apparent because there
weren't options a decade ago.

~~~
Chriky
...for some definitions of "many"

~~~
659087
Literally dozens.

~~~
ringaroundthetx
thats probably true, the philosophy has been there since at least 2012 though

------
arisAlexis
Dramatic title

------
readhn
RIP bitcoin. Current valuation is $4142.99 higher than it should be.. Im
thinking we will get there within a couple of years. $1-2 seems about right
per 1 BTC.

~~~
drcode
As someone involved in this stuff since 2011, the constant "death of Bitcoin"
predictions are sooooo tedious.

~~~
readhn
getting the timing right is pretty much next to impossible. this does not
change the fact that it will ultimately end that way.

~~~
ericb
Things that enable previously impossible use-cases don't just go away.

~~~
sova
Yeah, it's a pity that more technocrats don't actually understand how bitcoin
works, why it is innovative, and how supply and demand control prices.

