
Electric cars: New vehicles to emit noise to aid safety - open-source-ux
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48815968
======
0xcoffee
I saw this posted on HN before and it received a lot of negative feedback, so
I would like to offer a positive experience.

I live in the Netherlands and there are electric cars here that already make
these sounds. Its like a really faint 'vmmm' found. Its great because when I'm
cycling I can hear a car coming up behind me, but its still way softer then
regular car sounds so its still a decrease in night noise pollution vs regular
cars (the 'vmmm' is really soft and doesn't carry far).

I also noticed it already when walking around parking lots, if there wasn't a
'vmmm' i would never realize that there are cars driving around. Sound really
is one of the most important senses for situational awareness.

(I live in the City where cars crawl around slowly so the sounds are active)

~~~
benoliver999
If you live in a city in the Netherlands, you are surely used to 90% of
vehicles (as in, bikes) not making a sound?

~~~
0xcoffee
Yes, and silent bike interactions happen all the time. But a silent bike
interaction is like this:

'Cyclist behind some pedestrians, other slow cyclists'

'Cyclist either rings bell or says 'excuse me''

In a car situation, the car would have to honk its horn which is much more
interrupting to people trying to sleep then small 'vmmm' which is only
hearable in a small radius around the car.

Peds and cyclists often share spaces, and cyclists and cars also often share
spaces. The issue is how can a faster silent vehicle safely and socially share
a space with slower more vulnerable vehicles.

We have daily accidents with peds walking into a bike path unpredictably and
causing conflict. (Not necessarily a crash but annoyance by cyclist having to
do evasive maneuver). However if an crash happens its not usually do bad,
while even a low speed collision with a car will damage your bike and the car
and cost $$$.

So I wouldn't look at the bike as an example of a silent vehicle working well
in a city environment. We have many accidents they are just also very minor
accidents.

For the people who will point out that this could also be solved with better
infrastructure, I agree. Most of the accidents happen at places where e.g.
peds get a green light to cross the road and then continue to cross the cycle
path on the other side because in their mind they are protected by the green
light, but actually now cyclists have right of way. Sometimes we put zebra
crossings across bike paths but then everyone is confused because the cyclists
don't stop anyway and it just causes more conflict because still the rules are
being broken but just by the other party now.

tl;dr rules are confusing and people don't follow them anyway. A city
environment is super dynamic, and often infrastructure cannot be changed.
Adding 'vmmm's makes those interactions much easier, and its really doesn't
cause the noise pollution people keep talking about.

~~~
improbable22
Yes to all this.

I also wonder whether cars ought to have something less loud than the horn,
for communicating with people who aren't encased in metal. Like trams (many
places) have a little bell.

~~~
nihonde
I notice that the bike messengers in the city now have “horns” that are more
like an electric beep that is not as loud as a car. Also, the police cars have
rumblers that you feel more than hear.

When I’m in NYC, I always wish there was a counter for horn-presses that
eventually triggers an automatic fine if you use your horn too much.

~~~
nitrogen
I've heard from a friend that his relative in India absolutely won't drive
with a broken horn, because that is how you let people know where you are.

I'm curious how much of the honking in NYC is, say, "on your left" vs "up
yours" compared to other cities/countries.

~~~
nihonde
I’d say it’s mostly a form of complaining that traffic isn’t moving, even when
the people in front are also stuck. It’s truly pointless noise-making.

------
m0nty
It's a complicated issue, but my disappointment is that we have the chance to
be free from widespread traffic noise, for the first time in almost a century.
Yet it's to become mandatory. It's not as though traffic noise is benign:

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7440003](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7440003)

~~~
skrause
> _but my disappointment is that we have the chance to be free from widespread
> traffic noise_

No, we don't have this chance unless you implement a 20 mph speed limit
_everywhere_. Above that speed it matters less and less that you have an
electric engine because the tires and aerodynamic noise will be the main
sources of sound.

That's why this regulation only requires the artifical sound up to 12 mph,
above that speed they car is loud enough anyway.

~~~
legulere
The motor is louder than the tires until around 40 km/h for cars and 60 km/h
for trucks [1]. And it matters even a bit after that because noise is adding
up. Those speeds are pretty close to how fast cars go where people live.

[1]:
[http://www.leiserstrassenverkehr.bayern.de/entstehung/index....](http://www.leiserstrassenverkehr.bayern.de/entstehung/index.php)

~~~
samastur
The limit doesn't have to be at the point where motor stops being louder. They
only have to cover the range where all car induced noise is too quiet and only
to extent necessary to mitigate this for EVs.

------
irrlichthn
I drive an electric car which already does this. Is a very futuristic and
smooth sounding noise, and it sounds nice. Not like an ICE engine. People
immediately notice you and recognize that you are in some new type of car. It
feels positive, not negative at all as some comments here suggest.

Also, there is a button to disable that noise if you want to (at least in the
Ioniq)

~~~
BryanBigs
The Honda Clarity has no button to turn it off. My kids hate the attention it
gets when I pull up to pick them up at school. It sounds like a spaceship full
of slightly out of tune angels.

~~~
zaroth
Wow, that really is absolutely horrifying [1]. The people advocating for this
must have no idea the hell they will be putting us all through. Or they work
for the oil companies.

Advanced pedestrian avoidance systems would prevent more injuries than this
joke. This regulation shows such a complete lack of vision or respect. So glad
I got my EV before this became mandatory.

[1] - [https://youtu.be/QaxykqCkCjg](https://youtu.be/QaxykqCkCjg)

------
m463
I think it's a nice idea OUTSIDE the vehicle.

But some car manufacturers are idiots (no other word) and add sounds INSIDE
the vehicle.

The Nissan Leaf has tons of gratuitous sounds that cheapen the car.

When you turn the car on and off, they have startup and shutdown sounds like a
cheap canon camera.

And they have a "futuristic" driving motor sound, which is probably damaging
some of your hearing frequencies on long drives.

~~~
Scott_Sanderson
Wait the whirr sound on the Nissan Leaf is coming from a speaker?? I have had
a Leaf since 2016 and thought that was just the sound the motor makes (my
first EV).

Outside sound for pedestrians on the Leaf is not annoying and a good safety
feature IMO.

~~~
m463
I believe leafspy will let you disable these sounds individually. You have to
have a 2013 or later leaf. You also have to buy the leafspy app + an
inexpensive bluetooth OBD2 dongle.

------
mnl
Maybe people don't get the point because they don't walk that much with light
traffic around, but we do this all the time in my city old town area... and
you just don't hear the Prius cab that's right behind you after popping out of
nowhere. It's been years now and it still gets me every time, luckily they
drive carefully.

~~~
dazc
Reminds me of the story, in the UK, of a partially-sighted guy who was hit
twice at the same spot by the same driver.

[https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/blind-man-hit-twice-
sa...](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/blind-man-hit-twice-same-5409666)

------
esotericn
I own an electric car with no artificial external sound.

I'd like to have an optional sound. Using the horn is an act of aggression,
but enabling a Jetsons-like sound when I want to alert pedestrians would be
very useful.

You should be able to disable it. For example, when coming home and parking
late at night (headlights are visible then and it is quiet so a sound causes
pollution).

~~~
rsync
"I'd like to have an optional sound. Using the horn is an act of aggression
..."

I have considered this as well. That is, setting aside the issue of electric
noise vs. ICE noise, I think all cars should have _two_ horn noises - the
normal "horn" and a universally defined two-beep "friendly" horn.

That "friendly" horn would be very useful in many driving situations and would
make many interactions less confusing / antagonistic.

~~~
kaybe
You can use the normal horn in a friendly way. It's hard to put my finger on
exactly what is different, maybe timing? For example, very short honks _can_
be friendly.

~~~
karthikb
Unless you misjudge how long you press. It’s not foolproof. And even a short
blast can be heard a block away indoors.

------
RobertoG
This is really a pity. Maybe, instead of noise, other options are available
that nobody is exploring.

Maybe projecting a laser in the road ahead or something like that.

~~~
simion314
Sound is important, not sure if lasers on the road will give you instantly a
3d spacial position as sound does. I did not enountered electric cars so far
but I had this problems with silent bicycles, you walk minding your own
business and something appears besides you without you expecting it to be
there, if you did a side step in that moment you would have been hit.

Our brain and ears are evolved to interpret sounds so laser workarounds won't
be as effective.

~~~
mauvehaus
As a cyclist, my experience (in the US) is that pedestrians frequently react
to a warning of "on your left/right" with a startled, "huh?" reaction, and
turn around to the left to see what's happening. This inevitably puts them in
my path, where they weren't before.

Unless I'm in a place where people generally understand the concept (shared
use recreational bike paths), I don't give an audible warning unless the
person is walking erratically, waving their arms as the talk, etc.

Broadly speaking, if I want people to keep doing what they're doing so I can
pass safely, my experience is that it's better to just pass silently. If I
want somebody to alter their behavior so I can pass safely, I'll alert them.

~~~
robbiep
When I say ‘on your left/right’ when on a bike I make sure I have given them
plenty of time and prepare to pass on the opposite side, because the main
reaction I generally get is someone stepping into the side I said - a lot of
people have difficulty with their sides, and/or the processing time for
something like that is always longer than you expect!

------
vanilla-almond
I agree with other posters that sound is essential for cars. In the UK, it's
not illegal to jaywalk (cross a road at a suitable pause in the traffic when
you're not at a pedestrian crossing). In fact, most people in the UK probably
don't even know what the word jaywalk means. Without the sound of an
approaching car, I can imagine many more accidents. I'm sure all cyclists have
stories of missed collisions with pedestrians because pedestrians could not
hear an approaching cyclist and assumed the road was clear. With a car, a
collision can be fatal.

~~~
Dunedan
> I'm sure all cyclists have stories of missed collisions with pedestrians
> because pedestrians could not hear an approaching cyclist and assumed the
> road was clear.

As somebody who cycles a lot (>4000km/year) in a major European city I
encounter such situations nearly every day, but guess what: Such situations
are totally fine for me. Pedestrians are the weakest traffic participants so
it's my job as a cyclist to take care I don't hurt them. That applies even
more to car drivers and adding artificial sound to cars doesn't exempt them
from this responsibility.

~~~
clarry
And speaking of cycling, it's not uncommon for the wind noise in your ears to
deafen you to nearby cars. You just can't rely on ears.

------
fit2rule
I recently moved to electric as my preferred mode of transportation, and as a
result ride an e-moped around a family busy city in central Europe. When I
first started riding I rapidly became very aware that people just don't hear
it, and are not used to looking for danger on the roads they're about to step
on, if they haven't first heard it coming.

So I've sat at many a traffic light considering the viability of making an app
for mobile that is essentially a motion triggered synthesiser, getting
louder/changing pitches/stepping through a song sequence as the e-moped rider
picks up speed. It has been a thought game I've played, at least a few times,
and mostly after some near misses.

However lately this whole concept was defeated when I realised, basically, all
I needed is a little bell to hang on the handle-bars ...

------
pagnol
I cycle a lot in a city which has a lot of electric Toyota cabs. I'm always
terrified by them because I can't hear them and only notice them when they are
already very close to my bicycle.

~~~
Tinfoilhat666
What about other bicycles and escooters? They don't make any noises. I think
quiet noise from cars is ok, but maybe bicycles and e-scooters (and anything
on wheels) should also make some noise.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Bicycles and escooters are rarely 1 tonne travelling 30mph.

~~~
Reason077
Note that these noise emitters are only active at low speeds. In Europe, up to
20 km/h (12 mph).

------
tyfon
I don't think this is necessary but it won't do harm either except for adding
cost.

Where I live the electrics dominate and you can easily hear them unless they
sneak up on you on purpose (i.e. drive 1 km/h on fresh asphalt towards your
back). The electric motors emit a whine that is very distinct you also hear
the tires.

A much bigger problem in this area is people walking around with headphones /
earplugs getting injured.

~~~
jonas21
That whine you're hearing may actually be a safety sound, not the electric
motor. At least in the US, most electric vehicles already emit a safety sound
at low speeds that sounds like a quiet whine or hum.

------
olliej
I was going to make fun of this, but realized I’m not blind - if some who is
could tell me how much they depend on sound of a car to determine safety is
really appreciate it.

[edit: I vaguely recall seeing a show that said the primary source of noise on
the highway at least was due to tires on the road rather than engine noise]

~~~
jareds
I am blind and depend on the sound of cars a lot. When crossing busy streets I
listen for traffic patterns to let me know what light is green and red. On
less busy streets I listen for individual cars. There are not a lot of
electric cars around me so I don't have any first hand experience on if tire
noise is enough.

~~~
olliej
I don’t think tire noise would be enough at low speed (I mean I’ve heard cars
with very load wheels+suspension but I suspect that wasn’t by design).

It was intended more for the context of making highways quieter, for that you
need something more complex - it’s things like the sound of the tread itself
hitting the pavement etc

------
fnordsensei
I wonder what data, if any, this decision is based on. The only reference is
to the organization Guide Dogs, which makes me think, maybe it's sufficient
for them to emit noise that dogs (and children) can hear?

On a semi-unrelated note, the other day I was thinking that difficult road
sections should be fitted with beacons that cars can talk to in order to get a
more accurate understanding of the roads during difficult weather situations,
such as snow.

Maybe such beacons could emit light/sound as well, when they're actively
talking to a car, rather than the car itself having to emit noise. Though I
understand that this puts the responsibility back in the hands of
politicians/road authorities, which of course they don't want.

Though to be fair, I get the reason for this decision. I was just looking
forward to quieter cities.

~~~
benj111
"Maybe such beacons could emit light/sound as well, when they're actively
talking to a car, rather than the car itself having to emit noise"

The noise is supposed to tell other road users where the car is, how would
this help, except to tell road users that there is a car on a junction.

------
alkonaut
Makes perfect sense. If it doesn’t make enough sound it’s not safe for
pedestrians, especially blind ones. Maybe it should be muted at higher speeds
when tyre/wind noise is enough. It’s most important at low speeds and when
reversing.

------
monk_e_boy
I wonder what sound they will choose. Part of me wants the sound of horses
hooves, but I expect something like “Teslaa-aaa”

~~~
turbinerneiter
While fun, I hope the will pull all registers of psychoacoustics and sound
design to create something that maximizes safety and minimizes noise.

~~~
m463
It would be cool to use AI to recognize humans and then use beam steering to
give them targeted directional sound.

------
deniska
Each time this discussion pops up, Domino's electric scooter safety noise
starts playing in my head.

[https://youtu.be/n17B_uFF4cA](https://youtu.be/n17B_uFF4cA)

------
orkon
If I'd drive a car, which is a dangerous thing on its own, I'd be for
minimizing the risks of harming someone or myself. My current mitigation of
this risk is not driving a car at all.

------
Theodores
The recent advert where Arnie is trying to convince people to buy ICE cars (as
a prank) puts this in perspective. He rocks up in a Hummer that is making
normal car noises, the noises that car drivers like:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXodSqMpuUQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXodSqMpuUQ)

..but in this advert the noises sound so naff and quite... noisy!

My vehicle of choice is a bicycle and it is very quiet. But I have a bell. I
can give a gentle ting to let people know I am behind them. It would be a
little odd to me to have a bell that continually rattled just to inform anyone
who I can't see that I am behind them.

How many guide dogs have I maimed and slaughtered? Zero. And this is sharing
the same paths that people go on specifically to walk their dogs.

What next, someone walking sixty yards out in front with a red flag?

What happens if you live near a road that has slow moving traffic during rush
hour? This could be nice and silent as it shuffles along. But it will be
making these nanny noises from all the tin boxes.

Apart from anything else I thought it was a solved problem of having cars stop
if something is in the way? Automatic collision avoidance?

Can't we have that and a softer 'bell' instead of the aggressive 'horn'?

------
PaulAJ
I have this little fantasy where the car makers start selling a "big engine"
noise as an optional extra to replace the default sewing machine noise, and
then someone hacks it and cars start sounding like this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNnRGtVkr6E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNnRGtVkr6E)

~~~
taneq
Honestly I've been kind of expecting Tesla to have that as an Easter egg at
some point.

------
mrfusion
At this point not too different algorithms from what we use for self driving
could detect situations where noise would be helpful to air safety.

For example a crowded downtown road in rush hour. People will obviously know
there are cars in the street. Why add to urban noise pollution.

Or even if there are cars in front of you and behind you, you probably don’t
need sounds.

------
organsnyder
Our Pacifica PHEV has this. I was a bit disappointed when I learned that we
couldn't have 100% silent EV mode (below 20 MPH or whatever), but it's not too
bad.

I wonder if this is a transitional feature that can be phased out as EVs
become more prevalent.

------
mrfusion
I wonder if there should be some kind of override for places where silence is
valued? Driving by folks watching a remote sunset? Driving in a cemetery or by
a funeral? Slow Wildlife drives?

~~~
Mountain_Skies
I had use of a Nissan Leaf for a couple of months. It made a loud chirping
noise when in reverse. Anytime I'd back out of my driveway early in the
morning, I knew I was annoying my neighbors but there wasn't anything I could
do about it. It would have been nice to have the option to turn it off and
just be more aware of my surroundings while backing up.

~~~
chrisseaton
> there wasn't anything I could do about it

Reverse into the driveway when you park in the evening so you don’t have to
reverse out in the morning?

------
OscarCunningham
Are there any things that don't traditionally make noise that we should also
add noise to? Sharp drops near pedestrian areas? Bicycles? Low hanging
branches over walkways?

~~~
turbinerneiter
Pedestrians are not 3 tons of steels that run you over.

Bycicles have bells. On shared paths, pedestrians don't hear cyclists coming
from behind, so you occasionally give them a ping.

~~~
OscarCunningham
Cars have horns.

Note that I'm not advocating for adding noise to these things. I'm just trying
to point out that there's a status-quo bias where we're willing to retain
unnecessary noise but not to create it.

~~~
multjoy
Turns out that by removing it, we’ve discovered that the noise _is_ necessary.

You only sound a horn if the driver thinks it is needed, whereas pedestrians &
other vulnerable road users are making all sorts of judgements using audio
clues that the drivers are completely unaware of.

~~~
Youcandothis
I don't think noise is necessary. It's only that people are used to noise. I
usually wear sound isolating earphones outdors, so I don't hear cars as much
now. But to compensate for that I look more around. That's something everyone
could learn. Exception is those that are blind, but I think they should be
able to get some help from technology to warn them from cars.

~~~
OscarCunningham
I think my preferred policy would be to mandate this noise for now and then
slowly quieten it as people got used to quieter cars.

------
lovetocode
I hope they sound like tie fighters.

------
tomphoolery
Can we also get a "a-woo-ga" sound for the horn?

------
fredley
If it's equal to or less than the volume of current motors, great! As any city
dweller will know the real noise pollutant is mopeds anyway.

~~~
benoliver999
Yes! Mopeds, vans, lorries.

Most modern engines in cars going under 12mph are pretty quiet in terms of
overall noise pollution.

I guess it's handy in car parks etc to be able to hear cars.

~~~
Reason077
Car parks, etc, are exactly what this is needed for. Any places where
pedestrians and vehicles interact. Likewise narrow lanes in European villages
and city centres.

------
NeonTiger1992
"The charity Guide Dogs - which had complained it was difficult to hear low-
emission cars approaching - welcomed the change, but said electric vehicles
should make a sound at all speeds."

I think this is a point worth noting - for people with visual impairments,
this could be a potentially life-threatening situation they have to deal with
on a day-to-day basis.

------
DamnInteresting
My Chevy Bolt EV has one of these sound generators that kicks on at low speeds
(20mph or below, I believe). It sounds like a small electric fan, like a very
quiet hair dryer. I cannot hear it in the cabin unless I have a window rolled
down and I am near a sound-reflecting surface, such as a building. I think
it's a reasonable compromise.

------
jedberg
Good. I've been calling Priuses and Teslas silent killers for years now. Can't
tell you how many times I've almost been run over by one, despite the fact
that I'm always looking around when near cars. Sound is an important part of
situational awareness.

Maybe once all the cars are self driving we can get rid of the sound.

~~~
m463
What I noticed standing by a busy street is that EVs are just as noisy as
regular cars at speed.

Turns out the actual numbers are not obvious:

[https://insideevs.com/news/330043/quiet-car-rule-new-evs-
mus...](https://insideevs.com/news/330043/quiet-car-rule-new-evs-must-emit-
warning-sounds-in-us-by-2019/)

You could invert the formula and instead of walking ride a harley (loud pipes
save lives, man) :)

------
hawaiian
As someone seriously considering a Tesla Model 3, this would turn me off from
the car entirely. From a consumer perspective, this would make the car seem
more like a toy than the silent, efficient machine I expect to buy. In fact,
its silence is a selling point to me.

------
carapace
Someone pointed out that it would also make sense to wear helmets while riding
in cars.

------
hedora
I’ve always heard the manufactures push for this because it lets marketing
have the car constantly emit a trademarked, branded tone. People wouldn’t put
up with such in-your-face crass advertising unless it was legally mandated.

------
amelius
If some people are bothered by the noise, can't we just make the noise
directional, to the front?

And perhaps shut off the noise on highways (where there are no
pedestrians/cyclists anyway).

------
Jemm
I find that tire noise is enough to alert me even at very low speeds. Modern
tires are stupid loud.

------
ReptileMan
Please let it be Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries.

------
LoSboccacc
I know the right guy for the job
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj5IGSb-W18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj5IGSb-W18)

------
nabla9
Hans Zimmer is composing the sound for BMW's electric vehicles. Zimmer is the
guy behind soundtracks for The Dark Knight, Inception and Interstellar.

~~~
StavrosK
I can't wait for my car to sound suspenseful.

~~~
dTal
Pedestrian: _minding own business_

Futuristic electric car: BWAAAAHHHHHHHH

------
unixhero
Honestly, that sucks

~~~
turbinerneiter
Why?

* The "noise" will be a sound designed by sound specialists.

* The designers will be smart enough to design sounds that increase safety without being needlessly loud.

* Since the low frequencies of an ICE are not directional, a sound at higher frequencies (which is directional) is going to be an improvement. [edit: ICE frequencies are not as low as thought, so this point isn't too strong.]

* The motor sound of an ICE is only the dominant noise component at low speeds. Most of the time, the noise of the wheel on the asphalt dominates. At high speeds, the aerodynamic noise becomes dominant.

As a pedestrian and cyclist I'm quite happy to be able hear the 2 tons of
battery that are coming up from behind. And the one person I know who drives a
Tesla will also be happy about this. He had a close call with a cyclist once
because the cyclist didn't hear him.

------
jray
A really stupid decision.

~~~
simion314
Elaborate? is it bad for drivers? for pedestrians? for people inside
houses/apartments? why is bad for those people and can the sound be engineered
to be more targeted int the forward direction and only for the required safety
range?

------
Timucin
I read that as “let’s cut corners instead of building/improving roads”.

~~~
paulfurley
What sort of road building / improving did you have in mind?

We’re talking about city centre slow (<12mph) driving, I’m really not sure
what road improvements could improve safety of silent cars?

~~~
Youcandothis
Probably a lot can be done to help safety without adding noise. Maybe
something as simple as warning signs for silent cars can help.

------
cm2187
If you are not looking both ways when you are crossing a street, even in a
parking lot, you are irresponsible. You shouldn’t be surprised by a big,
predictably there object.

~~~
sidpatil
What if you are visually impaired?

~~~
AnthonyMouse
Then you cross at a crosswalk which is alerting you that you have the right of
way.

~~~
DanBC
Have you seen English roads?

Here's an example.

[https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.900949,-2.0723105,3a,75y,3...](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.900949,-2.0723105,3a,75y,34.74h,83.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfzv_NIe0uFkpVURFwhFK2w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

You'll see of these four roads meeting at a crossroad only one of them has a
crossing. Pedestrians have absolute right of way on zebra crossings. The car
driver is committing an offence if the fail to stop for a pedestrian on a
zebra crossing. Many drivers don't know this and they don't stop or slow down,
which is why the sounds are needed - to stop visually impaired people stepping
in front of a car that has no chance of stopping in time.

Notice that two of the other roads have dropped curbs and textured paving.
Rule 172 of the Highway Code mean that pedestrians also have priority on those
roads, but this isn't well known. Someone stepping off the curb there in front
of a moving vehicle is at risk of harm, even though they have priority.

What should a person standing on the near right corner wishing to cross to the
far right corner do? Just use that crossing that's there? Or cross to the near
left, then use zebra crossing, then cross to far right corner?

