

Bored with no ideas for next startup - bored_dev

After exiting my first startup and coming out on top ($60K), I feel like I can't think of any more ideas for my next startup. I've read all of PG (yes, even the ideas one), analyzed other startups, but am sick of seeing the same ol' stuff... Can someone help me out with what to do next?<p>Anon for now.
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sohail
A good way to come up with new ideas is live outside the tech world. Get a
non-tech job in a totally different field. Haven't tried that myself, but I'd
bet you'd come up with some good ideas that way.

~~~
NSX2
Careful there! That implies that the best way to come up with solutions to a
problem in an industry would be to get outside of it so you can get an
external, top-down perspective on emerging trends and unmet needs. Then if you
get an idea, you'll get a bug to implement it. But everybody will just laugh
at you and scoff, "Pssst - what would you know about that? You don't even work
in that field! You're not credible!"

~~~
run4yourlives
>But everybody will just laugh at you and scoff, "Pssst - what would you know
about that? You don't even work in that field! You're not credible!"

Which would put you in pretty good company.

------
pg
What do you wish someone else would build for you?

~~~
NSX2
IN GENERAL this is a great frame of mind to come up with ideas for a non-
programming mind; I think, however, that as a developer such a perspective
would lead to technically interesting stuff that few people would use / pay
for. As time remains constant and life becomes more complicated, I suspect
people will become more selective and use more of the kinds of services they
would actually bother paying for and limiting their interactions with things
that are interesting, but not enough if they actually cost something. That
said, most non-programmers usually start the "what would I want built for me"
process from the perspective of "that would be so useful that I might even
consider paying for it" whereas, from my experience with programmers (trying
to recruit for my own startup efforts), most programmers start the "what would
I wish someone built" process from the perspective of "that I would respect
this guy's technical ability a lot."

Case in point: there are tons of ideas that can become good, useful, practical
valuable services based on standard, already existing technology reconfigured
in different ways. But most programmers, if they're anything like the ones
I've come across, would consider that "below them" and instead favor a startup
working on some obscure problem that 6 people on the planet could understand
and appreciate.

Google aside, that rarely translates into "great business".

~~~
pg
_Google aside, that rarely translates into "great business"._

I think you mean Google, Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo aside.

~~~
NSX2
No, I mean just Google.

Apple in my mind = present an OS GUI according to the needs of the human
brain. A lot more than 6 people were/are/will be interested in that.

Microsoft = make big business computer functions possible on the home computer
(at least originally). Apparently more than 6 people were interested in that.

Yahoo's proposition originally = the world wibe web is taking off
exponentially and you need some sort of list or something to keep track of all
the interesting stuff that keeps popping up.

Again, more than 6 people were/are interested in that.

So, only Google. And truth be said, even Google doesn't count that much since
from my understanding Google was just living off of angel/VC funding for a few
years until a biz-dev V.P. came up with the idea to tie search results to paid
advertising as text on the side.

Without what became adwords, Google would have just stayed an interesting
technical solution.

Had that V.P. kept his mouth shut and left, secured VC backing based on his
cred as an exec in a KP/Seq-backed venture and started his own search engine
based on his adwords idea, I suspect he'd be the billionaire and "google"
would have turned out to be a startup his subesquent company bought and
absorbed.

~~~
paul
Your understanding of Google is not at all accurate.

~~~
NSX2
On another note, I just looked at your profile and read some of your articles.
Why take issues with "my understanding of Google" when it turns out I'm making
a similar point to what you wrote about in terms of being humble enough to put
pride aside and find out what people actually want/need/will pay for rather
assuming for them only to find out that nobody cares about the brilliant
programming of an idea nobody but the programmer appreciates?

Isn't that what you yourself said in one of your posts on your blog, or am I
misunderstanding your position?

~~~
paul
You're right that startups should be focused on building things that people
will want instead of just trying to use cool technology, but you're mistaken
in believing that Google wasn't doing that. Google had a strong following of
enthusiastic users from very early on. "Make something people want" also
happens to be the YC slogan, though I think it should be "Make something
people will want", since people don't always know what they want.

~~~
NSX2
Okay, let's leave Google out of this for a moment. My emphasis was that the
transition from "startup" to "business" seems to happen when you connect with
paying customers.

I even posted a post to this effect where I basically summed up the most
interesting part (for me) of a marketing book:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=127157>

In order to have a clear value proposition to get people to give you their
money, you need to answer (according to the book) these questions in
succession of difficulty:

Who you are / what you do / for who / because they need what thing that they
can't do without you / unlike your competitors / your different in what way /
which is a very important distinction (how?) and makes people care (why?).

I'd say most startups start with "who they are" and stop. Some make it to
"what they do" although not expressed clearly. The part about "for who" and
"why they care" never seems to be spelled out, just implied or something.

The first response is by some guy who took this as both a personal attack and
an attack on the whole Y Combinator community!

Then PG comes on and says, "well such and such venture capitalist says he
funds business that solve a problem the founders had."

I try to point out that that only holds true as long as that problem is one a
huge market of people are also having and are willing to pay for the
resolution of.

Then, in a rather futile and pointless exercise, he goes on to systematically
knock about 30 points off my all-time high of 80, perhaps under the delusion
that I secretly covet a high point tally so I can impress him or something.

It's like, the very mere suggestion that people need to tie their technical
ability to practical solution solving for paying customers, especially in this
economic climate, seems to meet with rage and fury from programmers who seem
to take basic economic reality like a personal insult or something.

> "Make something people will want", since people don't > always know what
> they want.

That would need perspective and ability to anticipate possible patterns of
future development, ability to assign probabilities to multiple scenarios,
etc.

All "right brain stuff". Most programmers I've come across, especially here,
couldn't seem to care less as long as they post their startup and score points
from peers.

~~~
aswanson
_Most programmers I've come across, especially here, couldn't seem to care
less as long as they post their startup and score points from peers._

Perhaps you could stop being so _nice_ to us. Just kidding. Believe me, most
of the programmers here understand this completely. We also understand that
things like quantitative market analysis, business plans, etc are for the most
part useless because no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. In this
regard, I think we are more right-brained, or at the least more honest, in
terms of what we think users want. We put out a rough approximation of what we
think they want and let them guide us. What could be more empathetic than
that?

~~~
NSX2
From my understanding, Y has so far been involved in about 80 startups or so.

Name 1 that provides a benefit people care enough to pay for.

... ... ... ...

But if what you said is true, ie, that programmers are "more honest in terms
of what we think users want", shouldn't you be able to point to a lot of
things?

If it's true that "We put out a rough approximation of what we think they want
and let them guide us", how come nobody seems to be guiding anybody towards an
offering people are willing to pay for?

Or do you guys just _think_ you're "more honest" and "empathetic" when in
reality you may be very, very far from the reality of what people actually
want enough to pay for?

~~~
dfranke
_Name 1 that provides a benefit people care enough to pay for._

<http://clickfacts.com/>

<http://wufoo.com/>

<http://virtualmin.com/>

<http://adpinion.com/>

<http://www.draftmix.com/>

I'm sure I've forgotten a hatful.

~~~
NSX2
I could see adpinion and clickfacts possibly going somewhere to an extent ...
though only because I don't know enough about advertising to figure out if
they won't be able to get lots of customers

I can't help but notice, though, that clickfact's management team seems to be
around PG's age so I wouldn't call it a pure Y Combinator thing based on the
premise of Y Combinator as I understand it.

------
paul
Randomly select three words, then think about what they mean together and how
to turn that into a business. Repeat.

~~~
comatose_kid
Jump To Conclusions

I can envision a fun 'mat based' game for all ages here... Score!

------
Kaizyn
It sounds like you're in a mental rut at the moment. To get out of it, you
will need to put aside the problem of 'finding your next startup' and focus
your attention on other things for a while. Teaching yourself a new technology
or working for someone else's startup for a while might give you enough of a
different perspective to make more progress on finding a startup idea.

------
mixmax
I have way more ideas than I can handle myself...

Write a bit about what are you looking for? Embedded, web, applications? Any
particular fields that you like ?

------
zenlinux
Aren't there idea repositories out on the web that are publicly accessible?
Something along the lines of huge brainstorming sessions done by people who
don't have the time or inclination to implement the ideas?

Here's the closest thing I'm aware of - the Global Ideas Bank:
<http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/bank/>

Anyone know of anything else along this line?

~~~
NSX2
Well, I just went to the link you provided and aside from 90% of the ideas
being well-intentioned but half-baked, I can't help but notice there are no
business ideas. So, to answer your question, no, there aren't. Why would
anybody waste time documenting an idea they don't have the inclination to
implement? Why don't they have the inclination? Because there's no motivation.
Why? Because they realize they can't make money off of it. Hence the only
ideas you'll find for "free" on the internet are ideas nobody can figure out
how to make any money off of. If they _could_ figure that out, then they would
have the inclination and thus, logic indicates that they'd MAKE the time. And
keep the idea to themselves, not post it up for all to see and profit off of.

------
bootload
_"... After exiting my first startup and coming out on top ($60K), I feel like
I can't think of any more ideas for my next startup. I've read all of PG (yes,
even the ideas one), analyzed other startups, but am sick of seeing the same
ol' stuff... Can someone help me out with what to do next? ..."_

There are some good resources for the "no-ideas" problem. Listen to this [0],
then read this [1]. See how you go. If you still have trouble you are probably
not determined enough.

[0]
[http://wiki.ycombinator.com.nyud.net:8090/presentations/Paul...](http://wiki.ycombinator.com.nyud.net:8090/presentations/Paul_Graham.mp3)

[1] <http://www.paulgraham.com/ideas.html>

------
thingsilearned
Join another startup for a while? I think its almost a huge strength to want
to work on startups but to not currently have an idea. There are tons of guys
out there with good ideas needing co-founders. A few people in the current
batch of YC included.

------
trevelyan
I want a way to use Paypal to pay for Google Adwords and/or other sites that
don't accept it.

------
ldambra
Why would you come up "anonymously for now" ? If you have an already
successful start-up experience, why not talking about it and tell us a bit
about you ? What are the risks in doing so ?

I'm a bit cautious by nature and I'm just curious about it. If I had an
already successful experience and were in your situation I'd rather talk about
it and introduce myself a bit. It helps to gain trust from other people and
would make your request more appealing.

~~~
NSX2
Anonymous = I don't have to tip my hat to people who can come up with ideas /
admit that good business ideas are not as easy as everyone says they are /
share any resulting credit/profits from application of ideas because nobody
knows who I am.

I could be wrong. But I can't think of any possible other reasons.

------
dualogy
"but am sick of seeing the same ol' stuff..." That's just the spirit you need.

"Can someone help me out with what to do next?" That's not.

------
joe24pack
Find a good way to have an asynchronous feed back from a web server to a web
client, a true general purpose "push" protocol as an extension of HTTP. Hey
you can even call it HTTP2W or HTTP2HTTP. Of course you'll have to come up
with not only the protocol definition but also a reference implementation for
both the client and the server. Sounds like fun, eh?

~~~
technoguyrob
Already exists:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_%28programming%29>

~~~
joe24pack
Thanks, I'm aware of Comet. Not exactly what I meant, in Comet the connection
stays open after being initiated by the client. I'm looking for something
where the interaction is first client-to-server, then client registers a
"callback" address and port that it will listen to. This would be followed by
a server-to-client call where the server will send updates/events to client as
they happen, the client then decides what to do with those events. I want to
avoid a persistent connection, and either the "heartbeat" client requests or
other forms of polling by the client. The interaction that I'm looking for is
more akin to a P2P sort of model.

~~~
Hexstream
I think firewall and NAT ubiquitousness (is that a word?) would make this
unfeasible.

~~~
a-priori
Yet another reason to speed the transition to IPv6.

~~~
simon1ltd
IPv6 has nothing to do with firewalls and NAT issues. Firewalls in particular
will remain in place and render this setup unfeasible.

------
run4yourlives
Ask your non-hacker friends what irks them about work... develop from
there...(yes, it will take a while... but you were bored anyway)

------
twak
here's one: user generated content is hot. games are fun. turn a game into
content creation or content creation into a game.

~~~
twak
Bundled startup companies. Offer a Limited company with matching domain name
and web-2.0-ey logo/trademark on the holding page. Your customers will get an
instant web presence they can start coding into. Perhaps having an operational
online payment system in that companies name would be good value for money.

~~~
twak
is there an interactive-computer-help system going already? Punters pay per
minute of help. They are matched with a nerd somewhere who can view their
screen, offer advice (voip) or help using a remote desktop.

------
picnichouse
Where do you live?

~~~
edw519
I was wondering the same thing. If he was near me, I could turn him on to
about 8 years worth of code that needs to be done in the next 3 months.

<comes up for oxygen>

13 hours later, he hasn't answered. Either he's not serious, he got hit by a
bus, or your question got buried in the noise in this thread.

------
bored_dev
i'm a web dev with lots of time on my hands... problem is, no ideas to apply
to it!

------
NSX2
I know how you can get an idea for your next startup. Call your favorite VC
firm and ask them, "You know how VCs are always lamenting that great business
ideas are a dime a dozen? I can't think of any ideas for now - but I have 30
cents! Can you please write down 3 dozen ideas you think are great so I can
develop them?"

Problem solved ... for a mere 30 cents.

Keep me updated on any progress.

~~~
mdemare
They'll say ideas are a dime a dozen but their time is charged at $500/hour.

~~~
NSX2
That's ok. Just tell them that you have an awesome "ability to execute" dime-
a-dozen ideas. According to their theories, that, the capital they would
subsequently invest and their "value-added" should help you all become multi-
billionaires. Surely they believe their own talk, so in theory they should
gladly put aside their pittance of $500 an hour to share ideas you can execute
for them.

Don't forget little people like me when you guys hit the big time.

------
NSX2
BTW ... let's say you get the help you want. Do you offer anything in return?

~~~
NSX2
This is sooo funny. Almost every week there's a "Ask YC" type of post where a
business idea is seeking programming talent, and almost all the time the
response is, "Why should I partner with you? What will you do for the startup
while I code?"

And here we have a "bored software developer" just soliciting free business
ideas and the mere suggestion that he should offer something in return seems
to be unpopular.

Have you ever considered that the person who you seek ideas from may have
developed the idea over months ... or even years of thinking, unpaid research,
trial-and-error, awkward conversations with potential users, constant analysis
of other things on the market, etc.?

Perhaps you may consider that from their perspective it would be something
like, "Why should I share the insights of months/years of thinking about the
problem? What were you doing while I was investing the time to investigate the
feasibility?"

And yet the very question of what value the idea giver can expect meets scorn.

~~~
aquateen
This is news.yc... have you read any of PG's thoughts on the value of ideas?

Here's an idea for bored_dev: Apparently, some people have a bizarre habit of
highlighting the text as they read. Write a script that checks whether a user
reads the entire text of, say, an EULA, or maybe an essay...

~~~
NSX2
Okay, let's review reality. This "bored developer" is apparently not PG. So
PG's opinions/thoughts are not relevant here, since obviously this particular
"bored developer" is straying from that view. For example, PG said you don't
even really need a good idea - just get started. But this "bored developer"
apparently can't start without the good idea, so he apparently is experiencing
a different reality at the moment than PG.

Seriously what does my response to "bored developer" have to do whith what PG
says/thinks/does/where he goes on vacation? If PG writes an essay that says he
thinks oxygen is useless and somebody next to you has an asthma attack, are
you going to turn around to them and tell them, "Well, didn't you read PG's
latest essay where he tells you he thinks oxygen isn't that important?"

