
The Memories of Plants - raleec
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/plant-memory-hidden-vernalization
======
cwkoss
I wonder to what extent cuttings are effected by these epigenetic memories?

Ex.

\- Grow plant A. Expose it to stimuli to make it form a 'memory'

\- Take a cutting from plant A and root it, making plant B.

\- Test plant B for response to the stimulus.

Does plant B have the memory? If so, how many cutting-generations does it take
for the memory to decay?

~~~
seszett
There's probably no reason cuttings should be different than a whole plant as
they don't have any fundamental difference. Unless the roots themselves have
an importance in the process (since the cuttings will then grow new
"inexperienced" roots) but I doubt it.

I'm more intrigued by what would happen with grafts.

Does rootstock transmit memories ("memories") to a scion, does a scion
transmit memories to rootstock, does it work with interspecific grafts, does
it work with intergeneric grafts? Do multiple scions transmit memories between
each other?

~~~
pvaldes
> There's probably no reason cuttings should be different than a whole plant

Its uncommon, but it happens sometimes... and there can be in fact a
fundamental difference: different hormone gradient. A well known case is with
ivy. If you take cuttings on flowered stems of common ivy, the new plants
retain the rombic leaf shape typical of reproductive stems and the effect last
for the life of this first leaves. The ivy born from seeds do not have this
rombic leaves until many years later, when they mature.

> Does rootstock transmit "memories" to a scion

Not, because memories are stored in neurons and plants do not have this, but
is a well known fact also that rootstock can change the scion behaviour (for
example improving the sugar in fruits and advancing the age of first
maturation). If you change 'memories' by 'chemicals', the answer could be yes,
of course. It depends on the definition of what could be loosely called as
'memory' in a plant.

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asciimo
A surprisingly common argument against veganism is "but plants feel pain,
too," based on interpretations of articles such as this one on Vice
[[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xd74nd/we-asked-a-
botanis...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xd74nd/we-asked-a-botanist-how-
sure-science-is-that-plants-cant-feel-pain-302)]. I suppose the argument is
that, if there is any amount of cruelty in our consumption, then we may as
well surrender to this fact and eat whatever we want. (Also, haha vegans are
dumb.) I'm sure this study will be added as support for this perspective.

But it should be obvious that even if plants were proven to be sentient,
vegans would continue to eat them. Our primary directive on this planet is to
survive, just like every other organism. Once that's settled we can focus on
doing so with as little suffering as possible, to the best of our ability.

~~~
damnfine
And the Vegan shows up! I kid, but the stereotype really holds true all too
often.

The unsaid assumption in your comment, that I disagree with, is that
harvesting animals causes anymore suffering than caring for and harvesting
plants (in a humane manner, which admittedly, many facotry farms fail at on
either side.)

~~~
gertef
How does harvesting animals cause less suffering, in the real world we live
in? The usual answer is "well IF you are friends with your cow/chicken and
give it lots of pasture and then you squeeze it for milk occasionally and one
day quickly and painlessly end its life, then its humane" but then motte-and-
bailey--style that gets used to excuse a diet full of factory-farmed meat and
chicken trucks and forcibly-impregnating cows and then seizing and killing
their newborns[1], which is the vast vast majority of meat consumption.

[1]
[https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+trucks&source=lnms&t...](https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+trucks&source=lnms&tbm=isch)

[2] [https://www.ciwf.com/farm-animals/cows/dairy-
cows/](https://www.ciwf.com/farm-animals/cows/dairy-cows/)

~~~
damnfine
All my meat is raised on open pasture locally, fed only on wild grasses. I
specifically said factory farms are a clear problem. Thanks for talking past
me and ignoring my point. This is what makes conversing wih you people get on
my nerves. Show some intellectual respect and get some in retuen.

~~~
lorenzorhoades
I agree with you on all your points. However, you last two sentences are not
necessary. To be honest, the first time i read your comment i though the same
thing. Only on a re-read did i see your last little bit of the message
addresses that argument.

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eponeponepon
A little off-topic, but since Atlas Obscura crops up here fairly often, I'd
just like to say that their book's a very pleasant thing to own, if you're
into coffee-table books at all. I bought it on a whim after seeing an ad on
the site, and I'm quite enjoying picking through it in fits and starts.
Nothing in it that isn't on the site as far as I'm aware, but sometimes a
laptop just doesn't cut the mustard for leisure reading.

~~~
X86BSD
Seconded, it really is a nice, as you said, coffee table book. It's just
really nice to pick up and read briefly while waiting for the wife to get
ready or when you have moments of brief leisure.

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AstralStorm
Interestingly enough, a similar chromatin-based mechanism could be responsible
for long term memories in animals. If that is the case, this could mean
interesting times for, say, cryonics or even psychiatry.

------
randomdrake
If plants having memories is something that interests you, then you should
also check out this recently (2017/05) published study:

 _Temperature variability is integrated by a spatially embedded decision-
making center to break dormancy in Arabidopsis seeds_

DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1704745114

In short, it shows a seed having binary decision-making areas that communicate
with each other to determine the best outcome for survival.

From the paper:

"Both plants and animals make decisions in response to the environment to
maximize their fitness. Plants use dormancy in seeds to move through time and
space, and timing of the transition to germination is influenced by external
cues, including temperature. Here, we report the presence of a decision-making
center within the root tip of dormant seeds and demonstrate that it shares a
similar configuration as some systems within the human brain. Unlike in
humans, where this spatial structure is used to filter out noisy inputs from
the environment, seeds use this arrangement to harness fluctuating
temperatures and stimulate the termination of dormancy. Variable inputs
therefore act as an instructive signal for seeds, enhancing the accuracy with
which plants are established in ecosystems."

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Abishek_Muthian
"Monica Gagliano began to study plant behavior because she was tired of
killing animal"

Considering she still calls plants 'he' & dedicated her life to study them, I
wonder what's her current perspective on the above statement. The article does
mention abusing plants as part of the study, does this mean the scientists
themselves feel it's less violent. Since it's proven that the plants react to
stimulus, how do they convince themselves that they aren't hurting the plants.

------
anfractuosity
That's really fascinating about the Mimosa pudica responding differently to
being dropped after a while.

Interestingly along with Venus fly traps, their movement response can also be
triggered with electricity.

~~~
burnte
Considering that it all boils down to ions moving to trigger various actions,
it's not surprising that electricity could trigger it. That's a good way to
get anything with muscles to move, too. :)

~~~
anfractuosity
Heh, that's true.

As far as I know though, you can't force the venus fly trap or mimosa to open
it's leaves again via electricity.

I think with the mimosa iirc, strong bright light can open it's leaves though.

~~~
burnte
Correct. Both of those actions occur due to the ion channels and gates
resetting to their normal, pre-triggered state. In both of these plants their
movements are triggered by ion potentials changing, like nerves in animals,
opening channels to move water from one area to another, changing the shape of
cells, bending cell walls due to water pressure, causing the movement. Then,
slowly the water is moved back to its pre-trigger state, slowly opening the
venus fly trap, or leaflets in this plant. Some insects move their legs
through adjusting liquid pressure.

~~~
anfractuosity
Thanks for the description, that makes a lot of sense.

I'll have to read up what light is doing wrt the Mimosa, as to how it opens
the leaves.

I bought one recently, as well as closing it's leaves when you touch them, it
seems to 'go to sleep', when it gets darker.

Edit:

[https://backyardbrains.com/experiments/Plants_Mimosas](https://backyardbrains.com/experiments/Plants_Mimosas)

Is cool, measuring the action potential.

~~~
burnte
Those diagrams are fantastic. Great find!

