

Please... No rockstars - fromedome
http://darrylsiry.posterous.com/pleaseno-rockstars

======
mhd
I'm the Beethoven of programmers. I don't listen to what my co-workers are
saying and I always leave unfinished work.

~~~
stretchwithme
I'm the Jesus/Darwin hybrid of programmers. I inherit all the right things
from each class.

~~~
j_baker
Were you _really_ a good programmer, you'd have chosen to be a Jesus
programmer with a Darwin mixin. But you didn't so now you have to worry about
the diamond problem.

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anatoli
Because we all know that people are being literal when looking for a rockstar.
Right? Have a little imagination.

I'm not a huge fan of it, myself, but there are certain scenarios where using
'rockstar' or 'ninja' even makes sense -- asuming the rest of the posting is
up to par.

~~~
FBever
How is "rockstar" positive in any sense of the word? And therefore, when is it
ever relevant on a job description?

I don't understand how rockstar became synonymous with highly
competent/productive. It's almost the exact opposite of the accepted meaning.

~~~
chc
In the positive sense, it refers to somebody who is looked up to with awe and
respect, like a rock star. For example, DHH had something of a rockstar air
when Rails was the cool new kid because everyone was in awe of the guy who
created this awesome framework. What they're trying to convey with "Are you a
rockstar?" is "Does everyone you work with think you are amazing in an almost
unattainable way?"

It's still stupid, lazy phrasing IMO, but that seems to be people's meaning.

~~~
bad_user
It's still a superficial classification leading to narcissistic behavior.

You know why? Because it's easy to make people think you're some kind of
misunderstood genius without having any kind of valuable work whatsoever.

I.e. you just need to be a good salesman when selling your image to others.

I love DHH, but how many engineers and computer scientists have pushed the
state of the art of our field much further than a web framework can ever do
and without being viewed with awe by others?

Here you go ...
[http://www.google.com/trends?q=steve+jobs,+alan+kay,+steve+w...](http://www.google.com/trends?q=steve+jobs,+alan+kay,+steve+wozniak,+jonathan+ive&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0)

All four of them are rockstars. Only one of them wouldn't be where it is today
without the other 3. Guess which one.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_it's easy to make people think you're some kind of misunderstood genius
without having any kind of valuable work whatsoever_

Are you kidding? It's incredibly difficult to impersonate a rockstar. Even I,
who have not watched a single minute of _American Idol_ , know how to tell a
true rockstar in thirty seconds: Auditions. You hand them an instrument or a
microphone and tell them to perform.

And a rockstar needs a portfolio and -- if possible -- a fanbase [1], and
these are also hard to fake. Evidence on Youtube suggests that Stefani
Germanotta had a lot of musical talent and intelligence as a sophomore in
music school, but she didn't become a _rockstar_ until she'd developed a
persona, adopted a stage name, released some tracks, and sold them to enough
people. Real rockstars ship.

Analogously, we all know that when a programmer comes through the door
claiming to be a rockstar you have to insist on seeing their portfolio and
watching them perform. That's what all the discussions of the interview
process are about.

\---

[1] In practice, the software metaphor _rockstar_ really means something more
like "aspiring rock star"; it doesn't necessarily refer to a programmer with a
"fan base". If you actually want to hire Linus Torvalds, or Lady Gaga for that
matter, you don't put out an ad asking for a "rockstar". You phone them up
personally, or phone their agent.

------
jlees
I actually saw someone who was job-hunting self-describe with "My technical
experience, business knowledge, and passion for technology make me a ninja-
rockstar."

Double bzzzt!

~~~
j_baker
Was the word "guru" involved? If so, the unholy trinity of HR buzzspeak would
have been complete.

------
shalmanese
Eh, it's a cheap form of social signaling which is performing it's function
perfectly. Like how baby names move from high class to low class through
diffusion, someone advertising for a rockstar 3 - 5 years ago was a good
signal that you should consider applying and someone advertising for it now is
a good sign that you shouldn't.

------
nathanh
Rockstars? What you really need is a ninja. <joking>

This came up a litte while ago: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1248389>

Seems like to most people it means that whoever wrote the job post has
unreasonable expectations. Also, rockstars make a lot of money. If a company
really is looking for a rockstar, they better be able to pay for it.

~~~
adrianwaj
If Bono came to me looking for work, I'd find something for him to do. Same
with Anthony Kiedes. Great PR.

~~~
trafficlight
I wouldn't hire Bono. He wouldn't get anything done. He would just write songs
about your problem, rather than actually doing something about it.

~~~
adrianwaj
Let me elaborate:

This whole anti-rockstar programmer movement sees the glass half empty rather
than the glass half full. Rockstar programming should be encouraged, not
shunned.

It would be wonderful to have a Lenny Kravitz or Mick Jagger despite being
washed up and well passed their musical prime able to crank out good Python
code. So why the development community energizing this ongoing global campaign
against the "rockstar programmer" and thus discouraging any attempt by these
rockstars to reinvent themselves and to find success in a respectable and
head-down career change? I myself am all for it.

In terms of employment, they'll be good for your firm and its morale:

\- entertaining lunch break stories, and "musical recesses"

\- Because they're usually older and not money driven but rather skills
driven, easier to manage and remunerate.

\- You'll be seen as an equal opportunity employer and not age-biased.

\- Most importantly, the PR value of having your startup or firm name-dropped
globally alongside your rockstar will be priceless, more than making up for
novice skill sets.

\- Lastly, it's altruistic: getting rockstars off the stage and into the
coding booth will be good for music: no more comeback hits. And we won't have
these dinosaurs taking attention away from what would otherwise be standout
emerging artists.

Rockstar programmers, bring 'em on I say. Let's support the likes of Kylie
Minogue and Steven Tyler in their learning to become Pythonistas or Rubyists,
or whatever language they choose, whether that learning be done on the tour
bus or tour jet. So on behalf of the development community everywhere, we're
right behind you, and we'll help. They'll mitigate further hearing loss too.

~~~
j_baker
Two things:

1\. Occam's razor would suggest that rather than hiring a "rockstar of
programming" you should hire a "programming star". It's much simpler.

2\. A real programming superstar usually has much, much higher hopes than to
become become the ultimate Pythonista or Rubyist. Good programmers transcend
languages and technologies.

------
acid_bath
> I think that a startup is not the place for that kind of person. I just want
> incredibly intelligent, competent people who are opinionated but value each
> other as well.

Well good luck then to you, sir. If you find that Perfect Employee who's
willing to start a job that might not exist in 6 months with below average pay
and benefits (the standard startup MO), hire him or her immediately.

~~~
ido
Interesting, I thought start ups (at least of the VC-funded-grow-fast-and-
sell-to-google/ms/oracle/ibm type) normally offer higher salaries than average
to mitigate the longer working hours and lack of job security.

~~~
j_baker
Nope, the justification is that they're going to give you enough equity that
you'll get rich when they sell to the google/ms/oracle/ibm type.

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djsiry
Gadzooks - I was wondering where all the traffic to my brand-new posterous was
coming from. First time for me on Hacker News - thanks for all the comments
(thanks fromedome for posting)

Darryl founder/CEO NewsBasis

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doki_pen
You can call me whatever you think of as "the guy that's worth the most
money". ;-)

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ardit33
Basically what the author is saying he wants people what are smart a good, but
humble, and not with narcistic traits.

What a 'rockstar' type of title might attract people that may / may not, be
good, but are highly narcistic: This paragraph is a classical npd trait: "Do
these people really want to hire self-absorbed pricks who show flashes of
brilliance but generally leave mayhem in their wake? That's what a rockstar
is. Selfish, demanding, unreliable, and requiring others to lavish them with
adoration or they will have a tantrum and walk off the stage in the middle of
the concert. Then they overdose and end up on a reality show."

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dannyr
I once met an angel investor who introduced himself as "Angel Investor to
Rockstar Entrepreneurs." Then I said, "cool, I have to go to the bathroom."

p.s. That angel investor is actually a regular poster here on HN.

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weeksie
YES.

I want smart people on my team, but I NEED people that can actually work with
a team. In my experience "Rockstars" are usually kids who have a knack for
development and fragile egos.

~~~
sherl0ck
then it's a ninja you're looking for. they could work alone, also could work
in a pack. and they are awesome :).

------
jaekwon
I expect great developers to be able to rip through guitar hero at expert
level. VIM does that to you.

~~~
gvb
...but emacs users are better at chording. :-P

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adrianwaj
Keep clear of VCs that think they're or behave like rockstars, but have no
talent or track record.

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synnik
It is an idiom, not a metaphor.

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TotlolRon
"I just want incredibly intelligent, competent people who are opinionated but
value each other as well."

ah. Much simpler.

