
Inside Uber’s Aggressive, Unrestrained Workplace Culture - samdebrule
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/technology/uber-workplace-culture.html
======
ilamont
Quoting from a 2014 Bloomberg column:

 _Stories about the leadership’s dubious ethics -- or the ones about subprime
autoloans or deceiving the press or sharing private user data for fun and
games at a party --haven 't really hurt Uber at all. Even reports of incidents
that might make one think twice about using the service -- sexual assaults, a
hammer attack -- haven’t gained much attention outside the close world of tech
blogs. There’s only a slim chance that most consumers will ever know about
this stuff and decide that they’d rather use, say, Lyft, an almost-identical
service. So long as people continue to download the app there’s an even
slimmer chance that the stories will hurt the company’s ability to raise
money._

1\. [https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-11-18/ubers-
dir...](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-11-18/ubers-dirty-tricks-
wont-hurt-it)

~~~
jrowley
I think those specific incidents were carried out by the drivers (independent
contractors) and they weren't formal employees. Not that I'm excusing uber of
liability/responsibility.

~~~
giarc
I think the average person also understands that one bad apple doesn't spoil
the bunch.

~~~
messick
The idiom you are quoting is "one bad apple spoils the barrel/bunch", which
means literally the opposite of what you think it means.

~~~
giarc
I guess I've always used it wrong, however...

[http://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136017612/bad-apple-
proverbs-t...](http://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136017612/bad-apple-proverbs-
theres-one-in-every-bunch)

>Back then, nobody ever talked about "just a few bad apples" or "only a few
rotten apples" — the whole point was that even one was enough to taint the
group. These days, those are the phrases people use to imply that some
misdeeds were an isolated incident — a couple of rogue cops, a handful of
unprincipled loan officers, two or three sociopathic soldiers. Then there's
the version that goes, "There are always going to be a few bad apples." That's
a counsel of moral realism: as in, there's evil in the world; get over it.
It's not a sentiment you would have heard in a 19th century sermon, much less
from a grocer you were complaining to about the wormy fruit he'd sold you the
week before. "Well, Mrs. Gold, we all have to expect find a few rotten apples,
don't we?"

------
rajathagasthya
This article links to a blog post [1] by a current female engineer at Uber,
who says:

> Why am I still at Uber? I am at Uber because Uber needs me.

I don't understand how someone can say this. It's like worshipping a corporate
entity.

[1] [https://medium.com/@hadrad1000/reflecting-on-susan-
fowlers-r...](https://medium.com/@hadrad1000/reflecting-on-susan-fowlers-
reflections-e2dccb374b47#.gwyl18wzu)

~~~
carlineng
Really interesting. I was contacted by an Uber recruiter several days before
this Susan Fowler blog was posted. I responded to him with a link to the
article, and asked him if he was interested in working for my company. His
response: "I am at Uber because Uber needs me - especially now." I'm guessing
it's the canned response they've instructed all employees to use.

~~~
Humdeee
> His response: "I am at Uber because Uber needs me - especially now."

A recruiter claiming Uber specifically needs them. This could be a punch line
to a standup comedy routine. Thanks for the first good laugh of the day.

------
iamleppert
I don't really understand why one would actually want to work at Uber. If
you're a good engineer, there are better and far more interesting and
impactful companies to work at than an app whose primary purpose is to call a
ride. I know Uber has much larger ambitions, and transportation is a large
portion of the economy, and thus very lucrative, but really...are you willing
to sacrifice your ethics and morals just to create the world's best taxi
service in the near term? To work in such a high stress, backstabbing and
political environment, and for what? The vague promise of some RSU's? Because
there are interesting engineering challenges in planning a route?

Culture is clearly set at the top. The only way for Uber to move forward at
this point is to make changes with this in mind. At this point, if I was on
the board of directors, the only way to move forward is to get rid of Travis
Kalanick. That will be the only message loud enough to signal to the rest of
the world that Uber is going to change, and at this point, do they really even
need him? It would be better to just fire him and replace him with someone
else to just get him out of the picture. He's an embarrassment to the company
and they can easily find someone just as capable from a business and technical
leadership perspective, probably someone a lot better than him in fact who
they can trust won't be making these rookie mistakes.

One of the main roles of a CEO is to set the culture and to prevent PR
disasters like what is currently going on. What else of value has he
_recently_ contributed that is worth keeping him on despite all these numerous
scandals?

If Uber does not do what is necessary to change their toxic environment, and
to fix the now _perception_ of toxicity, they will be eclipsed by one of their
competitors in short order. You can go fast in a cut throat, winner takes all
asshole culture, but you can go much farther with a happy team that enjoy
working with one another.

~~~
lebanon_tn
While I'm not in a position to defend what the culture at Uber is or isn't,
it's shortsighted to say that the problem Uber is addressing isn't an
important one. Giving people mobility can have a drastically positive impact
on local economies, housing, the environment, etc.

~~~
Lazare
> it's shortsighted to say that the problem Uber is addressing isn't an
> important one. Giving people mobility can have a drastically positive impact
> on local economies, housing, the environment, etc.

In fact it's such an important problem, that there were already a lot of
people addressing it.

Before Uber I had to use my phone and call a number and talk to a computer
that would dispatch a cab to me. Now I use my phone and use an app to talk to
a computer that would dispatch a cab to me. Yes, the app is better, but I'm
not being "given mobility", I'm being given the freedom to save a couple
seconds of effort. Which is, you know, _nice_. But no, it doesn't have a
drastically positive impact on anyone or anything.

(And since Uber launched in my area, some of the local taxi companies have
launched very credible apps, so even that advantage turned out to be
fleeting.)

~~~
brd529
You were blessed with a healthy cab system then. In San Francisco pre-uber,
you could not rely on being able to hail a cab if you were not in the
financial district. If you called the cab company you would be on hold for
10-30 minutes before you could talk to dispatch, and then maybe the cab would
come, but probably not if they found a fare along the way.

~~~
jsemrau
Sounds like it might still be largely probably an American problem (?), which
would explain the overall struggle that Uber is facing? Japan and Europe in
general have well working taxi systems. Thus I would challenge if the
valuation is really justified...

~~~
rusk
I'm amazed that _" Hailo"_ doesn't get mentioned on here more. To me it
predates Uber, but I don't know the exact timelines.

The premise is similar - you use it to hail cabs and you have a maps screen
that shows where cars are, how long they'll take to get you, taxi drivers
number etc.

But the business model is crucially different: Instead of trying to _eat the
whole cake_ Hailo just acts as a go-between customers and extant independent
taxi drivers.

It really is a non-zero sum for everybody involved. Customers get to "Uberify"
their existing taxi service; Existing qualified experienced cabbies have a new
conduit through which to access customers. Hailo themselves take a commision
on each fare the driver books.

To me this is a far better proposition: A technology that improves the lot of
_everybody_ involved. Not just - and I use the term hesitantly - "scabbing"
existing drivers.

It seems to me that much of Uber's growth and success is not just based on the
technology but also on the gaming of employment regulations, bypassing
regulations, and a smidgin of exploitation.

Many make the case that regulation is a barrier to improving services and only
serves to protect vested interests and this may well be the case in places
where Uber has flourished and Uber may in fact provide _better_ employment
terms in some cases. I don't know, but in many cases the taxi regulations
exist to protect the customer .. to which Hailo is simply a welcome
augmentation - rather than a replacement.

~~~
jschwartzi
Does Hailo give you pricing upfront? I've tried cab hailing apps in the past,
and they'll always quote a price that pisses the cabbie off as soon as he sees
it. For me, Uber's feature set includes knowing what I will be charged
beforehand, and not scrambling to find cash because the driver's card reader
is broken.

~~~
coredog64
No, but Hailo can also handle the payments, so it doesn't matter if the
driver's card reader is busted.

In a market like Dublin, Hailo is an ultra-efficient dispatch service. I call
for a cab to a destination, and the drivers decide if they want that business.
Of the ~7 weeks I was there, I only had one trip where it took me an extra 10
minutes to get a cab, and that was because it was pouring down rain.

------
minimaxir
NB: there is a _lot_ of new information in this article. It's a great read.

~~~
djsumdog
And greatly depressing. That sounds like a terrible place to work. It's very
Machiavellian-esque.

So what I gather is that sexism isn't rampant, it's the work cultural in
general that leads to varying degreases of hostile terrible-ism, with sexism
just one of the many many symptoms of their horribly constructed work
environment.

It's like a tech company run like a Wal-Street high steaks trading firm. Or
like Valve ... as a Wal-Street trading firm.

This article also explains Uber's tendency to just ignore laws and see what
they can get away with. So much of what they describe is what we see in their
business.

Frankly, I'd be worried about their self driving vehicles, and what shortcuts
they took that may eventually kill someone. I wonder what other shortcuts
they've taken. Maybe in a few years, Uber will go the way of MCI WorldCom when
people discover their books are cooked.

~~~
will_brown
>This article also explains Uber's tendency to just ignore laws and see what
they can get away with.

In many jurisdictions it was - maybe still is - much worse than just ignoring
laws, but actively conspiring to break the law.

For example in Miami-Dade County where being an Uber was illegal in both the
criminal and civil context, during that period Uber sent emails to drivers in
Miami-Dade with instructions/training on how to actively avoid getting caught,
including, but not limited to: removing the Uber phones from windshields and
having passengers sit in the front seat.

There is another of Uber's dirty little secrets here in Miami-Dade and that is
that Uber is used by drivers to exploit undocumented immigrants, which as far
as I can tell Uber is aware of and encourages/facilitates. Moreover,
undocumented immigrants can't get a drivers license in Florida; therefore,
can't register as Uber drivers. It happens all the time in Miami that the
actual driver does not match the Uber driver profile, from my talks with those
drivers they are clearly getting exploited.

~~~
WillPostForFood
I see the illegality, on both sides, where is the exploitation?

~~~
purple-again
They are most likely in a pimp/prostitute type situation where they have to
collect their money from the driver they are impersonating and are only
getting a % of their earnings. Being an Uber driver is already a lower paying
job, so only getting a % of that in Miami, a very high cost city is certaintly
exploitation.

Then again they are illegal immigrants so it might also be the best
opportunity they could find. I sure as shit would rather drive people around
in my car then pick produce in the strawberry fields we have down here.

~~~
cjbprime
You seem to be arguing that it's both exploitative and not exploitative at the
same time?

~~~
stagbeetle
They're getting a job, but it's cheap labor and aren't being paid a fair wage.

------
linuxkerneldev
" Occasionally, problematic managers who were the subject of numerous
complaints were shuffled around different regions; firings were less common."

Same strategy exhibited by certain religious organizations. Problematic
individuals were transferred to developing countries or disenfranchised
communities where more distinct power imbalances enable the crimes to go
unpunished.

~~~
burrows
What factors motivate higher-ups to avoid dismissal?

~~~
alphonsegaston
Firing for this kind of behavior establishes a precedent against which
subsequent actions/individuals can be judged. By avoiding dismissals, you keep
in place the ambiguity and arbitrariness in which toxic, manipulative people
can thrive.

~~~
erikpukinskis
I really think ambiguity is the source of all HR problems.

There should be a clear list for each employee of which specific things will
get them fired. And which things need to be done for them to otherwise not be
fired. And which things need to be done for them to be promoted.

Anything else you're basically saying: "If there is ever a lawsuit between
this individual and the company, we will have to assemble the employment
agreement in court from a variety of obscure emails and text messages."

What amazes me is that even with that risk, it _still_ seems to benefit the
company to keep these things vague in order to keep promotions down, and to
make it easier to fire people who are doing their jobs. But I guess the
numbers add up.

------
seoknucklehead
Based upon the evidence that includes the CEO's public attitude and that of
Uber as a company and the story told by the former employee about how her
situation was handled, it seems like Uber is much more sorry that their
culture was exposed than that they have that culture to begin with.

Is this kind of company culture not becoming much the norm in today's hyper
sexual society? I can't imagine that these kinds of things aren't happening
all the time at other in-your-face branded startups.

American Apparel is another company that quickly comes to mind with problems
similar to Uber's.

------
kposehn
[edit] Tomluck pointed out below that this post can be misinterpreted. I don't
want to discount people's experiences - and there is definitely work to be
done. But at the same time there is a lot of great things too, so we can have
a healthy perspective. Thanks to those who are discussing it!

\---

I could go into detail about my experience at Uber (which is great), but a
friend and coworker I really admire did a much better job. Here's her LinkedIn
post:

"Uber has been a lot in news lately, and not for all good reasons. While as an
Uber employee, I think there are things (in fact, many things!) we can do
better, one thing that I couldn't agree less with are the allegations of Uber
being a discriminatory, anti-women culture.

"While I am deeply saddened with what was recently brought to light, and being
a woman, demand that the investigation is urgently, unbiasedly done, I also
want to say that as a woman, an immigrant woman, I have never felt even an
iota of discrimination, let alone harassment.

"When I moved to the US about a year ago, with no job and plenty of dreams,
Uber was one of the few companies that gave me a chance to prove myself in a
new country. And, since then, I haven't just survived, but thrived here. I
look forward to coming to work daily, making my contribution, and having a say
in shaping a company that's changing so much around us. Again, I feel deeply
sorry for the recent situation that came into light, but I stand against
anyone who generalizes that Uber epitomizes a discriminatory culture for it
couldn't be further from truth.

"[Her] Disclaimer: These views are my personal views, and in no way linked to
my employer's. I just feel an overwhelming need for sharing my personal
experience working at a place that has given me so much in terms of learning
and growth."

~~~
leereeves
The impression I got from the story I believe she's describing wasn't
"discriminatory, anti-women culture" as much as "very bad manager" (to the
point of sexual harassment) and Uber not doing anything about it.

~~~
lzecon
Uber not doing anything about it is that "discriminatory, anti-women culture"
you're looking for.

~~~
leereeves
That's bad, yes, but one bad manager does not a "culture" make.

~~~
greghatch
I mean, it does if the culture is to turn a blind eye to managers that do
this.

Of course, from what I can tell, there's far more than one problem manager
involved in all this.

------
fullshark
I hope Travis / execs are sincere and this was a healthy reality check, of
course talk is cheap. Anyone know if Amazon culture changed significantly
after the NY times article about their work culture came out?

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
I have a question about this, though. It seems like many of the top,
successful tech companies were started by "brilliant jerks": Bill Gates, Steve
Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Travis Kalanick were all known for
being brash, arrogant, hard charging and willing to do things anyone with a
decent sense of ethics would reject (e.g. Jobs swindling Wozniak out of his
share of an early payment, Zuckerberg hacking into the private email accounts
of Harvard Crimson reporters by searching Facebook's auth logs, etc.) These
leaders also seemed to mellow as they and their companies aged, perhaps
realizing what gets you on top is not what keeps you there.

Thus, I do hope Uber improves it's ways, but I also can't help but wonder if
this very brashness that allowed Uber to develop such a toxic culture is also
what let it (and other companies) beat out their competitors to begin with.

~~~
thomzi12
Yes, it helped. But how much jerkery are we willing to tolerate? And, for how
long? Uber isn't an early stage start-up anymore.

~~~
alecco
We? Investors vs users vs techies.

Users and investors never stopped worshipping Gates, Zuckerberg, or Jobs.

------
DrNuke
I think 2017 is time to start finding out the degeneration of this uber-
capitalist model. A portfolio of on-call collaborations paying peanuts without
any workers right does not make a job and is not safe for customers. Please
stop defending the undefendable, bare naked social costs are too high.

~~~
cowardlydragon
Yeah, but dystopian slave labor business models really get the VC funding
elites to hand over the dough to the MBA sociopaths running the place.

I wish that was sarcasm.

------
nullnilvoid
We all know that this is not news about Uber's workplace. It has been
happening for quite a while. I bet those executives knew about it a long time
ago. What has motivated executives to take it seriously now? Why now?

~~~
M_Grey
Someone publically and categorically called them on it.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13682022](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13682022)

~~~
ubernostrum
More importantly: someone who not only called them on it, but _appears to have
documentation to back up her claims_. Which blows up many of the usual
strategies a company would employ to discredit an ex-employee making such
claims, and also threatens to trap them even further (the smart thing is to
keep good records; the _really_ smart thing is to only disclose part of what's
in your records, let the other party respond and likely lie about something
you have records of but didn't yet disclose, then nail them on the lie).

------
Tycho
Would there be any upside to a company like Uber cultivating a reputation like
this deliberately? Obnoxiousness seems to be a characteristic quite ingrained
into elite hacker culture.

~~~
flootch
Regarding drivers, I feel there is an upside to the horrible treatment Uber
doles out to drivers which is that Uber wants turnover, wants a driver to work
for a year or so, and fears long term drivers who might have more of a claim
to employment or be more invested in a lawsuit.

> Obnoxiousness seems to be a characteristic quite ingrained into elite hacker
> culture

That was not my experience with the elite developers I have known. I find that
behavior endemic and distributed like a bell curve throughout society.

~~~
dang
This account has been abusing HN by using it exclusively for political
arguments. It has also been posting personal attacks. Neither of those are
allowed here, so we've banned it.

------
nailer
> The ride-hailing service particularly emphasizes “meritocracy,” the idea
> that the best and brightest will rise to the top based on their efforts,
> even if it means stepping on toes to get there.

Whether this means:

\- Uber explicitly emphasizes stepping on toes as part of their workplace
culture

\- The concept of meritocracy includes stepping on toes

This is false and dishonest of the NYT. In the first case: Uber might be
awful, but no company would emphasise mistreatment of others explicitly. In
the second: that is not the commonly held meaning of meritocracy.

~~~
asdfologist
No, it's implicitly emphasized. Uber doesn't explicitly condone sexual
harassment, and yet it's utterly rampant there. Actions speak louder than
words.

~~~
nailer
That's exactly what I mean though! Uber might be awful and might implicitly
emphasize trodding on others. But the NYT, by combining their internal
explicit messaging re 'meritocracy' with 'expense of others' makes it sounds
like their internal explicit messaging includes that - it obviously doesn't.

Actions do speak louder than words. NYT doesn't need to make up the words.

------
vacri
I am shocked - shocked! - that a company that has gone from zero to $70B in
less than a decade by riding roughshod over people and engaging in shady
tactics, that it should have a company culture that reflects the same!

~~~
victor22
Agreed that its obvious. Regular "hard working" concept will only lead to
regular good results. Uber is reinventing a whole market. Also remember
they're playing against a very crooked taxi industry that could easily hold
back any player that tried to play by the rules.

~~~
cowardlydragon
"Uber is reinventing a whole market"

aaaaand, that justifies... what? Murder? Blackmail? Genocide? Racketeering?
Bribery? Where is your line in the sand?

Wait, I know, you don't have one if you're chasing the F U Money.

You know, drug traffickers are also reinventing the market, and forging ahead
into a new commodity, and using "outside of the box" thinking like
assassination and liquifying your competitors in drums of chemicals. Those
unnecessary regulations like "laws" are just evil big government trying to
control poor defenseless drug cartels.

------
buddapalm
The fish rots from the head.

~~~
Terr_
Yeah, I find unethical news out of Uber... unsurprising. I mean, most of their
business-model has been based on willfully breaking local laws for profit, in
the hope that they can grow into a bully that can ignore the consequences.

With that at the core, it's no surprise that other areas exhibit the same rot.

------
praptak
"Those values have helped propel Uber to one of Silicon Valley’s biggest
success stories."

The alternative hypothesis is that they were the first with something that
worked well enough at the time the public was ready to use it and the "values"
is just attribution bias.

------
sitkack
Waiting for the Enron fall.

~~~
johan_larson
Because of a toxic culture or because of other problems?

I don't think I've ever heard of a company brought down by cultural problems.
At most, cultural factors seemed to have contributed to the problems, such as
the issues caused by strict stack ranking at Microsoft, which punished
teamwork.

Some places are pressure-cookers and shark-tanks, but then some people love
heat and pressure and are, you know, _sharks_.

~~~
nostrademons
I think the studies on corporate culture have shown that it's critically
important to _have_ a culture ( _Built to Last_ has a chapter on "cult-like
cultures"), but it doesn't matter (much) what that culture is. The idea is
that culture is a unifying principle for the organization; it's a way for the
company to clearly delineate what it stands for, attract people who believe in
that too, and repel people who don't. The world is an awfully big place; for
basically every repugnant belief you can think of, there is _somebody_ ,
somewhere, who believes that it's common-sense.

If you don't like it, work for or patronize a different organization. Lyft's
entire differentiator is "We're not as evil as Uber."

------
losteverything
To me its a reminder of how times have changed and a tale of caution.

Pre internet there was no place (blog) to write about work.

Now, one always has to be conscious that their coworker-friend or coworker-foe
can tell the world stuff you would not tell. Reinforcing the keep quiet about
everything mantra

The other risk is that a decade from now the person making the blog will be
known for that blog. To everybody.

More caution will be required when coming in contact with that blogger.

Pick your battles wisely

------
walrus01
tl;dr: bunch of fratboys get too much VC money, run wild

------
desireco42
I really have to commend Susan for bravery to come out and describe what has
been happening to her. It is inexcusable behavior.

Also, it seems that writing a blog post is way more effective then suit who
would drag on for months.

And one more thing, not to downplay managers contributions, but developers are
the ones making things happen, we really need more credit for our work.

~~~
softawre
Just curious, ever been an engineering manager?

~~~
desireco42
I was and leading multiple teams. I was and still programming.

Not really sure what you are referring? I always made sure developers are
interviewed and treated with fairness and compassion. No crazy assignments,
most is done same day, they get response right away. Always promoted good
practices and learning. I wish I was perfect, I was not, but I think I did
really good job.

At the moment, I am not leading or managing any team.

------
rmcfeeley
Has anyone read "The Circle" by Dave Eggers?

I enjoyed it. Raised a lot of interesting questions that I think we're all
going to be debating in coming years. Privacy, surveillance, transparency,
etc.

Genuinely surprised how rarely it comes up in these discussions about toxic
corporate tech "culture"

------
leoc
I'm still gobsmacked by the smoothness and ballsiness of ceremoniously
appointing Eric Holder to deal with this sit-u-a-tion. Say what you want about
Uber, they certainly didn't get where they are in spite of a lack of political
smarts.

------
mgleason_3
Just start firing.

It's really that simple. First, fire the head of engineering. Then fire the
head of HR and anyone associated with this - unless they can show they were
forced into it.

------
bartread
"In what was described by five attendees as an emotional moment, and according
to a video of the meeting reviewed by The New York Times, Mr. Kalanick
apologized to employees for leading the company and the culture to this point.
“What I can promise you is that I will get better every day,” he said. _“I can
tell you that I am authentically and fully dedicated to getting to the bottom
of this.”_ "

(Emphasis mine.)

If culture flows from leadership then you already are at the bottom of it,
buddy.

</smartass>

------
known
Uber/Amazon are losing money on their business and hence bad working
conditions

------
aanm1988
> I am pleased with how quickly Travis has responded to this

I'm not sure how much credit "Boober" deserves when he's the one in charge and
has allowed it to get this point.

------
flootch
How many laws does Uber have to break, how many drivers does Uber have to
cheat, how many assaults on riders and drivers have to be committed, how much
predatory pricing does Uber have to commit, how many labor laws does Uber have
to flout, how much full time jobs does Uber have to undermine, how many
people, riders, pedestrians and drivers does Uber have to kill

before this generation of engineers looks beyond the high tech goodness and
high salaries they personally achieve to see the poison you enable by staying
on with Uber?

ethics/shmethics it's a great job at an important company!

~~~
civilian
Maybe half of these things apply to Lyft too, which really weakens your
argument.

~~~
leereeves
Also to the taxi companies Uber and Lyft are replacing.

~~~
briandear
I drove Yellow Cab in Houston for a few tough months in Houston while I was in
school and the taxi business is far worse than anything I've heard at Uber --
especially for those doing day-leases. The taxi business is more blue collar
by comparison with Uber. I am definitely not defending Uber -- I am saying
that Uber is getting this press because the situation affects educated (mostly
white) liberal engineering type while taxi business practices often go
unnoticed because taxi employees aren't typically the demographic that starts
blogs or talks to The NY Times -- nor do they raise VC money thus entangling
them in SV politics and media.

I never once saw a female taxi mechanic -- the only female employees I ever
saw were grizzled old dispatchers too tough to take any crap or the occasional
girl out of college working as a marketing assistant. Operations was almost
exclusively men -- the mechanics in the yard were all men.

Pay attention to how taxi companies try to 'sell' cars to drivers at insane
terms to were drivers would have to work 5 days out of a week just to pay the
note. Try scratching a day lease car and watch how the repair costs get taken
out of your money (despite also paying for "insurance" to cover such things.)
Yoy get robbed when picking up a dispatch passenger and lose all your money --
too bad, you still have to pay the day lease. I get it -- drivers are
independent contractors -- however any criticism of Uber ought to be tempered
by a fair assessment of the industry they are ostensibly replacing.

------
branchless
A company that ignored / sidestepped taxi regulations globally, often making a
profit out of devaluing working class peoples' taxi registration, apparently
has lots of unpleasant people working for it.

Colour me surprised.

~~~
digler999
"devaluing working class people's taxi registration"

read: a company that figured out their way around regulatory capture.

~~~
cowardlydragon
Or, made an app, and are using VC funds to dump on markets forcing out
incumbents, and then will hike prices.

But go ahead and subscribe to your objectivist utopian view. Oh evil
government, when will you learn?

~~~
digler999
> and then will hike prices.

there's a reason why you get a flyer telling you how much a cab ride from
JFK->Midtown costs and that cabs are only allowed to pick up passengers at the
designated stop (creating 30m+ lines). But go ahead and believe theyre just
"working class folks" and not scam artists.

~~~
pessimizer
The reason is to protect people arriving at the airport who are not familiar
with the area or local taxi companies. But go ahead and believe that if there
weren't a regulated standard rate for trips from the airport that they would
charge you _less_.

------
aaron695
> Uber employees used cocaine in the bathrooms at private parties

Oh my god!!!! At a private party no less.

If you can't see the beat up here, vague allegations to run with a current
theme that's getting press (clicks) you need to be more critical of the news
and not blindly follow articles that just reinforce your preconceived ideas.

~~~
jsmeaton
You've cherry picked a single example that you don't necessarily disagree with
and expect everyone to dismiss the entire article? That's not being critical.

~~~
aaron695
> Another manager threatened to beat an underperforming employee’s head in
> with a baseball bat.

Do you really thing he threaten that or was making a joke? Was the employee ok
with that and was this someone overhearing it?

> a manager groped several female employees. (The manager was terminated
> within 12 hours.)

Someone did something very wrong and was immediately fired. What more do you
want?

>One employee hijacked a private shuttle bus, filled it with friends and took
it for a joy ride

Do you reckon they used guns or baseball bats during the hijacking?

This is a standard stitch up we've seen done to tech companies before. It's
formulaic.

Take vague behavior/mistakes/missteps that's not unusual in society, give a
couple of examples as though it means something about this company and imply
it means blah blah blah.

~~~
FireBeyond
No, I think they went down to the lobby (quite possibly already under the
influence of alcohol or drugs) and okay, let's not call it a hijacking, but
_stole_ a private shuttle bus (and if I recall the original article correctly,
left it at another casino).

Stitch up, indeed. "Vague behavior". Also known as grand theft auto.

Blah blah blah, like you say.

~~~
aaron695
Fell free to link to this imaginary article.

There are plenty of articles about the party, yet none happen to mention it?
How strange..... Sounds newsworthy to me.

Do you really think people would get drugged up and steal a 'random' bus at a
work party?

This whole article stinks, but that's the society we live in, truths and
common logic have been thrown out.

------
AzzieElbab
All these hunger games stories are getting more and more primitive, stupid and
boring

------
bobbington
This is hardly newsworthy. I'm sure stuff like this happens at any company
that big. Why do they publish pointless news like this. And as others have
said why would you work for uber you hardly make any money

~~~
trjordan
> I'm sure stuff like this happens at any company that big.

Not that gets written up in detail, with numbers, with much frequency.

> Why do they publish pointless news like this.

Sexism is real. Adding context and response to a large company's response is
meaningful.

> why would you work for uber you hardly make any money.

That's just not true.

------
stagbeetle
_An honest thought:_

Is Uber an inherently "evil" company?

Startups in the spotlight, like Uber, are under a lot of pressure to live up
to their "darling" status, lest they risk losing investors and the snowball of
problems that comes with.

Doesn't Uber _have_ to be unrestrained in its current state?

Don't most darlings of today (Amazon, et al) _have_ to move forward as quickly
and fervently as possible, putting comparatively less important (see: human
resources vs. market valuation) to the back-burner?

~~~
gillianlish
Yes, there is absolutely no fucking way other than treating employees like
they are garbage. Of all the hundreds of thousands of companies in the world,
Amazon and Uber are the two most typical and everyone needs to follow them
because obviously they are doing things the way it has to be done.

That's how all the great products we use were made. Like think about the
Snuggly. Snuggly HQ was a brutal realization of Lord of the Flies. The bottom
sales guy had his head cut off and stuck on a pike in front of the others so
they'd remember their duty to the emperor.

~~~
stagbeetle
Your examples are working against you.

Companies aren't about great products, they're about making money.

Snuggie (Allstar Products Group) is magnitudes less important and powerful
than Amazon.

 _Coming from an executive perspective and not an engineering /developing one_

~~~
nikdaheratik
Or maybe your examples are the special case. IMO, you don't have to treat your
employees poorly in order to get the best results. What happens is that
important and rich companies tend to _attract_ these abusive harassers who
want to carve out a space in an important company and make a big chunk of
money as well. And because the company is more focused on growth, it hasn't
brought in the right gatekeepers to keep these kinds of people away.

------
uncrnhypcrt
the current uber hating seems like hive mind.

without a doubt, the stories coming out of uber are not good. but i work at a
unicorn and can unequivocally state that things are not vastly different here
-- few to no female devs (and other specific roles too), little diversity,
plenty of sexism, lots of politics, and huuuge assholes abound. if any of our
stories happened at uber, it would be front page news. and my guess there is
plenty of this around the industry.

these firms get away with bad management by turning it around on employees...
"if you see a problem, find a solution and fix it". this cuts both ways... no
one blocks you from doing what you think is important (which is great), but
equally no one steps in to play the role of mgmt when it matters (which
sucks).

in uber's case, the negative side to this culture is more on view than
anywhere else. uber may be amongst the worst of the tech companies when it
comes to this, but i certainly don't think they are an outlier.

