
Writing English as a Second Language (2009) - Tomte
https://theamericanscholar.org/writing-english-as-a-second-language/
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yorwba
It is amusing that in the example of replacing "Prior to the implementation of
the financial enhancement.” by “Before we fixed our money problems.” the bad
Latin words are replaced by other Latin words. ("fixed", "money", "problem"
all have Latin roots.) Even the list of Anglo-Saxon words has a decidedly non-
Anglo-Saxon word ("chair", via French from Latin).

What matters is not the origin of a word, but its modern usage. When you
consider alternative ways to express a concept, use the words that a. convey
the intended meaning with the necessary precision (Clarity), b. are commonly
used (Simplicity) and c. result in short sentences (Brevity).

So I agree with the principles the author recommends, but I disagree with the
examples. I find all three principles broken throughout the text, and although
that might have been deliberate, it certainly doesn't feel like it.

~~~
Koshkin
"Problem" is from Greek, to be exact (as are many, many other words -
"system", "grammar", "physics", "geology", etc.).

~~~
18nleung
Yes - when I was learning Spanish I was told that the exceptions to the la -a
rule (i.e. words that end with "a" usually are feminine) are from Greek. For
example, "el problema", "el sistema"

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vilhelm_s
And French! E.g. John Searle's comment on Michel Focault,

> 'Don't be ambiguous', 'don't be too wordy, be brief', 'be orderly' and
> 'avoid obscurity' are the four Maxim's of manner. And I think those are
> frequently violated. In fact, there are certain schools of philosophy---not
> once I'm sympathetic with---where they are more or less systematically
> violated. I don't know if I've told you this story but I once had a
> conversation with a famous French philosopher who's a friend of mine and I
> said to him "Why the hell do you write so badly, _pourquoi écris-tu si mal_
> ", and he said, "Look, if I wrote as clearly as you do people in Paris
> wouldn't take me seriously. You know, they would think it's childlike and
> naive." [...] In France you got to have 10% incomprehensible otherwise
> people won't think it's deep.
> ([http://www.openculture.com/2013/07/jean_searle_on_foucault_a...](http://www.openculture.com/2013/07/jean_searle_on_foucault_and_the_obscurantism_in_french_philosophy.html))

I think this is one of the great contributions of the anglophone academic
sphere, the idea that you should try to aim to be easy to understand.

~~~
FoeNyx
But, in the article, the "bad examples" he gave, some real people wrote them.
If you had to write back to such people with "bare" English, wouldn't they
judge you as "childlike and naive" too?

Isn't it necessary to adapt your phrasing to your target? (I thought it worked
this way in any language)

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forinti
A friend once asked me to translate a letter he had written to a US company
about some equipment of his that needed maintenance. I quickly realized the
main difference between Portuguese and English: in Portuguese, you write in a
very roundabout way and in English you are straight to the point.

So, if I had translated that letter word by word, it would go something like
this:

    
    
      Dear Sir, 
    
         I bring to you, by way of this letter, knowledge of the defects that have befallen the equipment I purchased in...
    

Sounds a bit medieval.

~~~
thaumasiotes
It doesn't seem particularly more roundabout than the conventional English "I
write this letter to inform you of the defects etc. etc."

~~~
wikibob
That sounds oddly stilted and formal.

In my social class and area of the USA a native speaker would open directly
with the problem.

"I purchased a widget from you on November 3rd with the expectation that it
would..."

~~~
Markoff
as a speaker of few European languages, it's considered rude to be straight to
the point, it's like you are ordering someone to do something, while you
should be politely asking them to do it, even if it's their job and business
communication should be kept formal, we are not friends after all

personally i have no problem with straight people, but some people care more
about form than content

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drdaeman
> Don’t say anything in writing that you wouldn’t comfortably say in
> conversation. Writing is talking to someone else on paper or on a screen.

While true, doesn't this ignore the concept of styles and related stuff? And
doesn't every word has its own distinct flavor, that may subtly imply
something? Like saying "individual" with a certain emphasis on the word, may
put some stress on the aspect of individuality (maybe I'm wrong about English,
but it surely works like this in my native language).

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catnaroek
> My Spanish-speaking students must be given the bad news that those long
> sentences will have to be cruelly chopped up into short sentences with short
> nouns and short active verbs that drive the story forward. What’s considered
> “good writing” in Spanish is not “good writing” in English.

As a native Spanish speaker, I disagree: Unnecessarily long sentences are
considered just as bad in Spanish as they are in English. The average Spanish
sentence is a little longer than the average English sentence, but that's only
because the average Spanish word is a little longer than the average English
word.

~~~
mal184
I have no knowledge of Spanish, but I think your comment is spot on. I think
the author of this article is wrong that things like simplicity, well-placed
verbs, and economy are unique to English. The students from other language
cultures who claim otherwise likely have a very distorted view of their own
language.

Good verbs are like a universal principle of good language, as is the one
thought per sentence rule. These rules might need to be tweaked - perhaps, for
example, simple clauses can be strung together into a single sentence as
dependent and independent clauses more easily in one particular language, but
the universal part is then the simple clause with a good verb. These universal
principles of good writing are like the foundation of the house - they have to
be in place - , and everything else, like nice adjectives, proverbs, etc. are
ornamental. The author's students are confusing the ornaments of their
languages for the foundation.

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muddyrivers
Very helpful for people who study English as a second language. I really like
the examples on Arabic, Spanish, and the woman from Nigeria.

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istjohn
Not bad advice for native writers either.

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kmicklas
I can't take these things seriously when they say stuff like "It’s not as
musical as Spanish, or Italian, or French, or as ornamental as Arabic, or as
vibrant as some of your native languages."

The classic fetishism of Romance languages and exoticization of everything
else is alive and well.

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the_greyd
That's William Zinsser, who wrote the book "On Writing". I've been recently
reading it, and its great, full of useful advice.

