
Japan's older hikikomori live in isolation, shunning society for years - pmoriarty
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/03/21/national/social-issues/japans-older-hikikomori-live-isolation-shunning-society-years/
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buf
I believe a lot of the fear of hikikomori can be resolved by working remotely.

I'm an American who spent only 5 years working in an office before coming to
the conclusion that it wasn't for me. I spend most of my time working from
home these days, with the occasional trip to San Francisco to make an
appearance at HQ.

Because I still contribute to society, my relationship with my wife stay
strong, I am able to socialize without anxiety, and depression from conforming
to office society is long passed.

I still shun society in many other ways. I disagree with some schooling
systems, most political systems, and others beyond the scope of this comment,
but working from home gives me the willpower to make compromises.

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huangc10
"There are more than half a million hikikomori in Japan — according to the
latest government survey published in 2016 — defined as people who have stayed
home for more than six months without going to school or work and interacting
with no one other than family."

One question for the hikikomori. If they don't work, how do they get money?
I'm sure they can live relatively inexpensive lives but how do they get money
to pay for rent? Does he work remotely? Bitcoin investments? So many
questions...

~~~
maxerickson
Many of them are staying at their parents still.

~~~
mettamage
I actually think more or less similar developments are happening in the US and
Europe. Instead of the specific term hikikomori, they call it an extended
adolescence or something similar. Though, 'extended adolescents' do not
necessarily shun society. They do live with their parents in most cases, from
my own experience at least.

Having said that I may be completely off base here since I do not know
Japanese culture well enough.

~~~
klokoman
It happens in all societies where people are forced to conform and markets are
closed to people without a license. Japan is economically the mono-ethnic
version of what US/EU are moving towards: a society where you must fill in the
boxes given by the system or f* off.

On hacker news since most people are in CS/IT, a field that is almost free
(but not for long), it may look like we still live under goverments that are
business friendly. But that's not the case at all in other sectors, and many
people aten't allowed to find a place in the market.

People today can't get their feet wet when trying to find a place in the
market, they must immediately do a full dive. No wonder more and more are
drowning.

~~~
Executor
What an anti-social sentiment. It is not the responsibility for the market to
find a "place" for you. It is your job to make that happen. What are you...
unemployable? Spending too much time playing video games instead of learning
multivariate calculus?

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buf
Hikikomori are a result of Japanese salaryman-esque jobs. In order to heal
hikikomori, you first need to evolve work.

~~~
RayVR
I think you’re basically proposing that someone with a cold should get rid of
their runny nose to fix their headache.

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aerialcombat
Personally the sad part is that I wouldn’t mind living like him given my
current life situations.

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mgamache
I am not Japanese, I can only marvel at the complexity and subtleness of
Japanese culture. But I sort of get it, you start interacting with anyone and
it opens you up to the pressure and the questions and with Enryo you can't
really talk openly and be accepted. Would these people be happier living
outside of Japan?

~~~
ohiovr
I'm not japanese so I don't know. But I know that human beings are intensely
social creatures and being alone, even if in self exile must be painful. The
pain they have must be less than the pain they feel being around others. Some
would probably consider going to other lands but sounds like they don't have
money for the option. The $25 million the japanese government needs for them
sounds like a really small number for nearly half a million of them..

I do well in the states but I think I could relate to what they did in Japan
since Japan places such huge amounts of value on honor and self success. It
sounds like a double edge sword. It's good to have a society that values
success but leaving about half a percent of the population as shut ins doesn't
seem right.

~~~
wanda
> But I know that human beings are intensely social creatures and being alone,
> even if in self exile must be painful.

I'm not diagnosed as autistic or as a psychopath, but I'm really not a very
emotional or social person. I take great pleasure in being alone, _far from
the madding crowd_ , and I find it much more difficult to be among other
people, mandating the menagerie of masks necessary for me to get where I want
to go in society w.r.t. my career etc. I say masks, because unlike many people
I seem to meet, I do not have any enthusiasm for consumption, decadence and
self-gratification.

I mean, I'm no buddhist or anarchist, I just prefer to perfect my craft over
going out on the town or accumulating wealth I'll never use. I'm happy with
cereal, I don't need some kind of smoked dolphin's nose on squid-ink dyed
seventy-seed toast. I therefore have to act in a certain way, other than as
myself, in order to be perceived to be relating to people I meet and work
with.

In reality, you might call me a stoic, to use a loose definition of the term.
I don't find it painful to act like someone I'm fundamentally not, indeed to
act in an archetype I internally find rather absurd, but it is _tiresome_. It
tires me greatly to be among other people, and I try to keep my relationships
with others to a minimum. I have nothing to hide, I just prefer to spend time
in solitary and uninterrupted recreation or study, refining skills and
knowledge of topics I find interesting.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm not saying that my individual existence
is a significant indicator of anything contrary to your point, but my
existence does at least indicate that _some_ humans (since I find it difficult
to believe I am alone) aren't as intensely social or pained by isolation as
you say – and I dare say there's more than a little overlap between the set of
asocial humans and the set of self-isolating _hikikomori_ who prefer no
company at all.

Though, in my experience on anonymous message boards over the past fifteen
years online, _hikikomori_ (or at least the western equivalent) seem to prefer
the company of others like themselves whom they may encounter on said message
boards. Or some certainly act like they prefer the imagined company of
anime/video game characters to the company of other human beings, most of whom
will never, ever come close to understanding them or what they're about.

~~~
HumanDrivenDev
> I say masks, because unlike many people I seem to meet, I do not have any
> enthusiasm for consumption, decadence and self-gratification.

You sound insufferable. It's fine not to have in common with people, but
pretending you can't get along with others because of their "consumption,
decadence, and self-gratification" sounds like nothing more than an excuse for
poor social skills.

Every day I break bread with people I have almost nothing in common with, and
still manage to have interesting and pleasant conversations. I don't feel the
need to collapse into a ball of self-righteous contempt.

~~~
wanda
I _am_ insufferable. Were I not insufferable to people like yourself, for one
reason or another, I would not need to wear masks.

I have social skills, and a tongue of only the finest sterling silver, so I
need no excuse for a lack of such things. I just wanted to speak frankly about
how much I loathe socialising with people, because I find them essentially
hollow and/or self-interested.

Any given person may see me as both hollow and self-interested from their
perspective, but this is irrelevant to the point I'm making. I see no reason
to _want_ to talk to people who are not really listening, so I try to avoid
it.

There are times when it cannot be avoided, but that's the price one pays to
earn money, which is in turn required to pay live for a home with electricity
and an internet connection. I suppose I could just become a bum, drifting
between coffee shops with WiFi, but then where would I sleep? Pretty sure I'd
have to socialise more if I were to go down that route anyway.

Also, if I 'collapsed into a ball of self-righteous contempt', I'm pretty sure
I would be saying 'I cannot socialise' not 'I hate socialising'. Just a minor
detail about your slightly rude reply, it doesn't matter that much.

~~~
myt6fore
This thing you describe comes from internal resistance (may also be called
self-reactive filtering) where environment -say, groups of people that you may
have some rigid bindings with,(like workplace)- display just the slightest
(very toned-down) air of viscious but very real and directed hostility. It's
the artifice that bothers you, but this stuff goes deeper. You can fix that by
building friendships with open (foolish) people, you just need to find some
good ones. Friendships do take some effort, though.

