
Tesla to triple supercharger network by the end of June - jcdavis
http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-dramatically-expands-supercharger-network-delivering-convenient-free-long
======
mrmaddog
If I were in the hospitality industry, I'd be buying adjacent shops next to
every Tesla charging station. Having a captive, wealthy audience for ~30
minutes seems like a ripe opportunity, whether it is restaurants, masseuses,
or cafes. I'd also offer free valet+ services so patrons would stay in my
establishment longer: I'll look over your car, start the charging process (in
case there is a queue), and make sure to move it when it is done charging.

~~~
zacharypinter
I misread that as "hospital" instead of "hospitality" on my first read, which
actually brings up an interesting tangent.

If the Tesla stations make use of and store solar power, would they be a
viable backup power source for hospitals? Or are the power requirements for a
hospital on backup energy way too large for that sort of thing?

~~~
MiguelHudnandez
The amount of solar panels you'd need to charge a Tesla at supercharger rates
would be ridiculous.

They may have solar panels, but that is just something cute that might make a
small dent in the installation's grid power consumption.

However, you are on to something [1], though it's more for cars that are
parked for long periods during the day. The point of a supercharging station
is contrary to donating your vehicle's power to the grid.

1: [http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-
sell...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-to-sell-power-
from-electric-cars-back-to-the-grid)

~~~
pbreit
Are you sure?

"plans are to install on-site grid storage to make them self-reliant with
their own energy supply"

~~~
icegreentea
Well... let's do the math!

Incident solar radiation is about 1 kW per meter squared. Assume 10% end to
end efficiency (including solar -> electric, storage, and actual charging
efficiency... this is optimistic, but doable... certainly not the cheapest
though). You now need 10 square meters of panel to supply 1 kW. Assume sun is
out for 12 hours a day, and for the full 12 hours you get all 1 kW/m^2
incident radiation (this is very very generous). The car has a 60kWh battery.
So if we want to find out how much panel it takes for one station to charge
one car a day...

60kWh to charge, but 12 hours to charge it up, so you basically need 5kW,
which is 50 m^2 of panel. Which honestly isn't -THAT- big. Its a 7 meter
square. Now... from my random snooping around, and my own impressions, I would
say that a 'large' gas station typically covers something like... 500-600
meters squares (thats 5300 to 6500 square feet). That would be enough to super
optimistically charge 10-12 cars a day.

I saw optimistic, because incident solar radiation is not that kind. Can take
a looksey here:
[http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook...](http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/old_data/nsrdb/1961-1990/redbook/atlas/)

If you pick average, annual, and single axis east-west tracking (which I
believe is the best bang for the buck), you see on the solar map, the BEST
places in the US gets 5-6 kWh/m^2/day, compared to our assumption of 12
kWh/m^2/day.

The feasibility of superchargers being even 90% off the grid is of course
completely dependent on the ratio of size of supercharger panel array and rate
of cars charging. But given the above, I'm inclined to believe that it is
highly impractical for the majority of super charger stations to become
actually self reliant, especially in high traffic areas.

~~~
btilly
A supercharger network is going to have a lot of stations on lonely stretches
of highway. Given how few Teslas there are being taken on those trips, you're
going to want charging stations in places where there will be very, very
little usage.

I can easily see a random station on I-10 near the CA/AZ border being entirely
self-reliant...

------
jack-r-abbit
I think this is brilliant on the part of Tesla. If they can get their charging
network big enough & fast enough, new comers to the electric vehicle market
would be wise to just use (license?) some of the tech needed to also charge
their cars on these stations. Depending on how this is structured, Tesla
_could_ come out of this getting a piece of every electric vehicle that gets
sold using their chargers. Unless the tech here is nothing special.

~~~
secabeen
Elon was asked about that in the call. Tesla is open to working with other
manufacturers, but the superchargers are pretty finely tuned to the battery
that Tesla is using. Other manufacturers would have to make their batteries to
Tesla's specs for it to work.

~~~
chris_mahan
I understand the manner in which the battery is put together is a company
secret.

~~~
NickM
I've read that as well, but it's hard to imagine that it can really be that
much of a secret. If a competitor wanted to find out how it's put together,
all they'd have to do is buy one and take it apart, no?

------
jcdavis
Another interesting bit at the end is the improved supercharging tech: "The
new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to
customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW,
replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes."

~~~
nickpinkston
BTW: 120kW = 160 horsepower, so it's providing the power of your Honda Civic
at full throttle for 20 minutes.

That's nuts!

~~~
fchief
That sure is a big power boost. Welcome to the future.

~~~
205guy
No, no. The future is 1.21 jigawatts, IIRC.

------
simba-hiiipower
> _In addition to the expansion of the Tesla Supercharger network itself,
> Tesla is improving the technology behind the Tesla Supercharger to
> dramatically decrease the amount of time it takes to charge Model S, cutting
> charging time in half relative to early trials of the system. The new
> technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to
> customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW,
> replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes._

i find this the most interesting part of the release. it sounds like existing
model s' currently on the road will be able to take advantage of these
upgraded superchargers.. i always assumed advances in charging tech would
require upgrades to both the chargers and the cars themselves. anyone know how
this is supposed to work?

..i know its wishful thinking, but this gives me hope that my lowly focus
electric may someday see its charging capabilities upgraded as well.

~~~
andrewtbham
when musk unveiled the super chargers he said they were designed for 120kW but
that they were testing them out at 90kW first.

------
protomyth
"Without spending a cent!"

At some point states are going to start taxing for electricity going into
electric vehicles to make up for lost revenue for their road and highway
funds. I wonder if Tesla will pay for that or start charging?

On another note, I do hope we don't end up with every manufacture building
their own recharging network.

~~~
MartinCron
_At some point states are going to start taxing for electricity going into
electric vehicles to make up for lost revenue for their road and highway
funds._

Or they'll increase gas taxes to make up for the lost difference until
everyone is driving electric cars. Mission accomplished!

~~~
pkulak
That'll get the votes for sure!

~~~
MartinCron
There is some logic to it. In my State (Washington) the legislature is
currently looking at raising the gas tax rate to adjust for the fact that
average fuel economy has gone up a whole bunch in the years since we set the
tax rate.

[http://www.nwnewsnetwork.org/post/backers-washington-gas-
tax...](http://www.nwnewsnetwork.org/post/backers-washington-gas-tax-package-
rally-capitol)

As we _literally_ have parts of the interstate freeway falling into rivers at
the moment, I think I'm OK with some more infrastructure spending.

------
jusben1369
Today I read an article that said Honda is now offering the fully EV Fit for
$259 per month as a lease over 36 months. That is unlimited mileage, includes
car insurance and a home charger (!) Tesla's whole model was to eventually
create a mass mileage car for $25,000 to $30,000. I'm now convinced that by
the time they get there the market will be hyper competitive and they'll be
squeezed out or marginalized. They may become the Apple of the car market -
high margin, great brand, small marketshare %'s - which is nothing to sneeze
at. But I'm worried now they've missed their opportunity to really make it as
a stand alone brand. Perhaps they'll become a service supplier to the overall
industry with charger stations and batteries etc.

~~~
jack-r-abbit
Just like with gas cars, not everyone wants the same thing from an electric
car. I wouldn't buy a gas Fit, what makes you think I'd buy an EV one?

~~~
jusben1369
It's not really much of a rebuttal to my point though is it?

~~~
jack-r-abbit
I think it is. For any product you are going have a range of prices. $15k cars
exist... but people still buy $150k cars. So just because Honda gets an EV Fit
onto market doesn't mean Tesla missed any mark. If they become the Apple of
the EV market, then there is no missed mark.

------
jtbigwoo
There's more than a bit of hype in this press release. Tripling the number of
superchargers only gets them to 27 with almost half of the stations in
California.

------
jtbigwoo
Can someone smarter than me comment on the danger of having one of these next
door to an apartment or office building? I assume that we're talking about
lots of volts and amps here. Are these stations any more or less dangerous
than a gas station?

~~~
bloaf
I'm going to guess that they are orders of magnitude safer than gas stations.

Firstly: no ground pollution. Gas stations are terrible for the land they are
built on as they leak lots of organic compounds into the soil.

Secondarily: no large reservoirs of combustible materials. I don't know the
details of the supercharging stations, but I'd guess that they are at least as
safe as the electric transformers we see on telephone poles everywhere.

------
stephenhuey
Without spending a cent! I know there was speculation about using solar to
power the superchargers eventually, but until then, are they hoping to forever
give free fuel to Tesla owners with the hope of recouping supercharger energy
costs by selling access to other brands of cars? Any idea how much it will
cost Tesla on every free Tesla fill-up?

~~~
NickM
Typical US electricity rates are around $0.10/kWh, and a baseline Model S
having a 60kWh battery, so if I totally guess at a charging efficiency of 50%
then a full charge should cost somewhere in the vicinity of $12. On the 60kWh
model, it costs $2000 to enable the supercharger hardware, so I can't imagine
they'd lose too much money off these.

Keep in mind that these aren't really intended for frequent use: they
generally have been placing them on highways in between large cities, with the
intent to enable the occasional long-distance road trip that would otherwise
be outside the car's battery range. Even if Tesla loses a bit of money per car
on average, it's probably worth it just for the value it adds to the cars in
peoples' minds.

~~~
nightski
Except they are feeding the electricity back into the grid, so I don't think
it will cost them more than the installation and maintenance of the charger
itself.

------
jdoliner
Is there ever going to come a point where rather than hooking my Tesla up and
charging it I just drive up to the station and swap out the battery for a new
charged one? This seems to help mitigate one of the biggest problems which is
how long charging takes and could, I imagine, be made to be a pretty speedy
process if need be.

~~~
fancyketchup
Probably not anytime soon. You can charge 240 miles of honest, comfortable,
real-world, freeway-speed range while you sleep at night, and the same while
you're at the office. Cross-country road trips are just about the only time
the vast majority of people will ever need to charge at a location other than
the origin or destination. Waiting for a supercharge doesn't add much time to
the trip unless you normally tend to drive 10 hours straight without answering
the call of nature. The superchargers are intended to be at locations and
intervals where you would ordinarily stop anyway (to eat, use the facilities,
stretch your legs, etc.). There are, of course, cases where a battery swap
would be handy, but that's on the wrong side of the 80/20 problem.

------
narrator
The charging stations should be able to accommodate a lot more cars than a gas
station. You don't have to have a lot of machinery to pump fluids around as
electrons get around on their own. The physical size and expense of equipment
per charging station should also be a lot smaller when compared with a gas
station.

~~~
netrus
But keep in mind that I will occupy some space at the supercharger 4-5 times
longer than with a regular gas station.

------
viame
Yesterday I was driving from Waterloo to Toronto and saw two Tesla S models
within 30 min from each other. What a nice car! Does anyone know if there are
charging stations along 401? Maybe that's why I can't find anything online ...

~~~
jvm
See map here:

<http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger>

They're located between major cities so you can make a road trip, not in them
because the idea is when you're home you just plug them into your wall at
night.

------
cinquemb
I wonder if they are using all the data they collect from drivers to help them
with planning how the distribute they stations?

~~~
cscheid
I hope not. Supercharger stations don't exist everywhere, so people don't
drive their Teslas freely right now. Choosing where to put them based on where
drivers drive their Teslas right now would make the supercharger network have
good coverage of where Teslas are today, not where they want Teslas to reach
in the future!

------
maeon3
Devil's advocate here: You can't charge up your car when your power goes out
for a few days. Wheras gas stations have generators and gas rolls in on time,
supercharger networks and home power drink from the same power grid.

There's a word for all this: stranded and on-the-grid more than ever before.

When power goes out, the city of electric cars also grinds to a halt. And
heaven forbid all the people have their cars plugged in ready to charge when
the grid comes back on.

Does this mean I need to have a hefty 2 stroke generator with 8 gallons of gas
ready to go to charge up the car when the power is out for a few days? You'd
probably need a $1000 generator to provide the watts and amps.

~~~
dak1
What's stopping you from keeping your own generator?

I suppose you'd be effectively limited to the max range of your vehicle from
the generator, but if there's no power for 200-300 miles then there's probably
bigger problems.

~~~
andrewtbham
or better yet... lots of people are getting solar panels from elon's other
company Solar City.

