
The Presence of One’s Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity (2017) - wtracy
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/691462?journalCode=jacr
======
slothtrop
New hot take: I'm addicted to my laptop. The phone barely registers in terms
of interest because I work on my laptop anyway, which is less cumbersome to
navigate.

Notwithstanding the need to separate work from leisure life, much of leisure
is just attached to this device. Even the less consumptive activities, like
writing or playing music, benefit from it. And anything to do with innovation
or research is absolutely tied to it. This has been amplified somewhat owing
to the pandemic, keeping me from activities out-in-the-world, but even before
it all happened I merely had the gym and the odd outing to the coffee shop on
the regular, and weekly/bi-weekly outings with friends.

It's a mechanical issue. By which I mean, I enjoy research at leisure and
relatively solitary activities, but at the same time I want to pull away from
being in front of a screen; it hasn't to do with consumption versus creativity
or challenge. I try to remedy this with scheduled walks, and enough social
time. Historically I imagine a person like myself would just be stuck in front
of books instead, which I do also, but so much info can be gleaned from the
web particularly research papers.

EDIT: this concerns me more-so now as we'll be trying for a kid, and I'd like
to lead by example.

What I'd like to see in the future is AR tech that rewards mobility and in-
person interaction, creating collaborative spaces anywhere. That may seem like
more of the same problem, but the marriage with technology will only deepen,
so it's up to us to set the terms.

~~~
ehnto
I am right there with you. I kicked the phone addiction in various ways, but I
really like to work on personal projects and they're all on the computer, much
like my work, so I'm always on my computer.

I have a few tricks. I have a work laptop and a gaming computer, and I do all
my personal work on the gaming computer. That helps separate the two. I have a
workspace which gets me out of the house and keeps me focused while at work,
so I can get it done quicker and ultimately spend less time on the computer. I
also have a few outdoors hobbies, and a few indoors hobbies that are away from
the computer. But of course I can't make progress on my computer projects off
the computer, so that's still a conundrum I can't solve.

I am at the point where I wonder if maybe I should work outdoors or offline,
in order to regain my online time. But I'm not sure where to take that.

~~~
sjtindell
One thing that kills me with this setup is having such different dev
environments - I spend all day using particular tools, shortcuts, etc. on my
work laptop (OSX) then when I try to use my personal computer (can virtualize
whatever OS I want, most realistic is Ubuntu for dev) to do projects the flow
is totally different and it really slows me down or I worry it will take too
much mental bandwidth to switch.

~~~
ascar
The flipped ctrl/alt keys is the worst part for me. I really wish there was a
setting in MacOS to flip them around without causing weird issues.
Unfortunately, while you can flip ctrl/alt system-wide some apps already use
the Linux/windows shortcuts (like terminal ctrl+c/ctrl+d for stop and exit)
and then these are flipped, which drives me even more insane. The best shot is
overwriting menu commands one by one, which is tiresome and still doesn't
apply everywhere.

I just settled to learn both, but I still see myself ctrl+c copying on mac and
when alt+c when back on my windows machine.

I have high hopes for WSL2 replacing MacOS or Ubuntu VM's for me, especially
because Darwin is simply not a linux system and you really feel the difference
once you work on natively compiled code.

~~~
wyclif
It sounds like that instead of WSL2, you'd be a candidate for a power Linux
distro (not Ubuntu) alone where you have rolling updates.

~~~
ascar
While I don't mind a specialized setup for work, you often don't really have a
choice there or it comes with a lot of corporate pain. Just using whatever
your team is using is the way of least friction.

At home I'm using my computer also for gaming and Windows is again simply the
way of least friction.

I've run a hardware switch for my hard drives for a few years to switch
between Linux and Windows (effectively cutting off power from some of my
drives). However, this means I have to fully shutdown the system to switch
environments and I saw myself mostly rather spin up a Ubuntu VM in Windows for
personal projects.

I hope WSL2 brings the best of both worlds with the least friction.

~~~
rightbyte
Running desktop Linux on VM is horrible in my experience. Eg. Eclipse lags
out.

I had problem with Windows randomly wrecking the Ubuntu boot sector on
separate HDs, but using physical switches seems like a good idea! I'll try
that.

------
perlgod
Getting rid of my smartphone was without a doubt the most positive thing I
ever did for myself.

I'm sure some people have the self-control to use it sparingly. But for me,
not having to constantly fight the urge to check my always-connected magic
pocket internet portal has freed up a huge amount of my mental willpower,
which I can now redirect to other more important things.

Now that everything is closed, I don't even miss having the convenience of
Uber/Google Maps. Additionally, without social media, I remain blissfully
unaware of whatever corona hysteria or political drama is consuming the minds
of my peers.

These devices have a veritable legion of engineers working to make the
smartphone experience as addictive as possible. For some people, the only
winning move it not to play.

~~~
stevensawtelle
Can you talk more to the practicalities of getting rid of a smartphone? Have
you seriously found that the loss of the conveniences they bring haven't been
that burdensome? I am really intrigued by the idea but find it almost
inconceivable to work for me (which might speak to an addiction, so I feel
compelled to understand this further)

~~~
perlgod
I have not found it to be overly burdensome. I have an indestructible kyocera
flip phone, so I'm able to call people (and SMS in a pinch).

I have an LTE-enabled tablet, so if I'm going somewhere totally unfamiliar,
I'll throw it in my bag just in case I need to look up some information.
Otherwise you just have to plan your outings in advance - like we always did
prior to 2008 or so.

I have a Garmin GPS mounted in car for road trips, which I honestly prefer
since it doesn't tempt me to fiddle with it while driving like a smartphone
does. I also carry a semi-nice digital camera sometimes. It's obviously not as
convenient as a smartphone camera, but I find I am more thoughtful and
appreciative of the photos I take as a result.

I use more paper items (small paper notebook for grocery lists, transit
tickets instead of using the app, etc). This can be somewhat freeing, as I've
missed my ferry a handful of times because their app glitched out.

My personality tends towards obsession and analysis paralysis, which can be
good for programming but sometimes bad for real life. I no longer obsess over
which restaurant has the best looking pictures or online reviews, I just walk
inside and try it out. Sometimes this is for the better, sometimes for the
worse, but it's definitely a more human experience.

Without the smartphone, I also find I am much more inclined to talk to random
strangers, since I can't just whip out the phone during awkward silent
moments.

With lack of FOMO, I am also much more present with family and friends, which
is probably the biggest benefit.

~~~
wussboy
Thanks for your great response. I’ve often considered doing something like
this.

I wonder if there is a way to accomplish many of these things while still
carrying your phone? For example, what if your phone took 5 minutes to unlock?
And didn’t give notifications until you unlocked it?

Just a thought.

~~~
mdiesel
My OnePlus (not sure how widespread the feature is on android) has a Zen Mode,
once started you can't use the phone for most things until the timer elapses.

A bit different, but good if you want a break.

~~~
Insanity
If you don't have a oneplus, I suggest the "forest" app. Helps me
tremendously. [http://forestapp.cc/](http://forestapp.cc/)

(No affiliation, just a happy user)

~~~
wussboy
I’m going to try this. Thanks!

------
joshe
"Journal of the Association for Consumer Research" and vague implied effects
on mental state both pretty good indicators that this will not replicate.
About half of psychology papers don't replicate anyway, the field has been
doing some house cleaning, which is awesome, but needs to do a lot more.

Oh you can add that all the researchers are marketing professors at business
schools (one now at Snap). Good job on the marketing though, perfectly
designed to get headlines.

[https://www.colorado.edu/business/adrian-f-
ward](https://www.colorado.edu/business/adrian-f-ward)

[https://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/Faculty/Fa...](https://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/Faculty/FacultyBios/Duke)

[https://rady.ucsd.edu/people/faculty/ayelet-
gneezy/](https://rady.ucsd.edu/people/faculty/ayelet-gneezy/)

[https://www.linkedin.com/in/maartenbos/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/maartenbos/)

~~~
socalnate1
I find this response overly dismissive. Did you read the paper or just the
abstract?

Dismissing the work of marketing professors out of hand isn't the right
approach. What if this is one of the half of psychology papers that do
replicate?

~~~
joshe
Scanned the paper too with sci hub. Nothing remarkable.

But we should be dismissive of any new results from psychology, it just
doesn't have systems in place to validate claims. There is some cool stuff in
psychology that has been replicated 20 times, across different cultures, and
over time. But the chances of a headline psychology paper being true are,
generously, 5%.

To be far to the authors, they are in a bit of a bind. In order to get their
Phd, and progress in their academic career they have to do "original"
research.

For psychology for the last 40 years, this means do stuff like this. Get
cohorts together and test claims. When one is statistically significant,
publish. They really didn't have much of a choice other than drop their
career. They are probably nice people who just want to teach college classes.
Misinforming people is an unintended side effect and more an indictment of
academia than of them.

~~~
socalnate1
I think skepticism is warranted, but dismissiveness is not. Honestly it's a
little offensive.

Also, in this case their findings aren't even counter intuitive or that
surprising. They are just measuring something that most of use believe already
(judging by the rest of these comment threads).

~~~
bonoboTP
Being a little offensive is fine. The question and argument should be whether
it's a corre t assessment about the field, not whether it will hurt their
feelings to read this. If it's false, argue that. It can be offensive to
priests to say there's no god. It doesn't by itself make it false.

~~~
socalnate1
That’s fair. But you are just proving my point. This research was dismissed
out of hand, it wasn’t actually engaged with to see if it’s a correct
assessment or not. That seems to happen whenever any sort of soft science
research is posted here. There is a contingent of folks that seems to believe
soft science is an oxymoron and therefore shouldn’t even be tried.

~~~
pas
It's not necessarily bad habit to kind of purge HN of these random "paper
announcements". Wait until there's a meta-analysis and let's submit that and
talk about that.

Regarding the folks who are militantly ignorant about the science of soft
science, alas I have to agree, they are a bit of a problem.

------
chadlavi
Not to brag, but I'm often able to maintain low levels of cognitive ability
even while my phone is stowed away.

~~~
mirekrusin
Pro tip: if you feeling smart, dig in your nose, works wonders.

~~~
cmauniada
Is it weird that I was doing that as I read your comment?

~~~
jjgreen
and you replied, so eew, your keyboard ...

~~~
efreak
Who said anything about a keyboard? We're using phones here, remember?

------
ardillamorris
I get it - the act of staying away from your phone is taking up cognitive
capacity. And if you're addicted, the constant reminder to check also takes
cognitive capacity. Sex is no different - if you're single, or married and you
want more sex than your significant other - believe me, sex will reduce your
available cognitive capacity. The constant thought of how do I get more of it
(single or married) I'm sure does more than your smartphone and probably the
smartphone is just a tool to the idea of getting more sex.

~~~
bobthechef
Managing the appetites requires self-denial. In the case of married couples,
the spouse has a moral obligation to satisfy the other sexually within moral
and reasonable limits (i.e., sexual abuse or objectification of the other is
never admissible).

Phone addiction is in this sense easier. It can also be managed through
abstinence or even eliminated cold turkey if you wish because we have no
intrinsic desire for phone use, but we do have an intrinsic desire for sex.

And yeah, the passions, when we are ruled by them instead of ruling over them,
can darken our minds and enslave us. (In your example, the "daughters of lust"
are apropos.) A man has as many masters as he has vices.

~~~
nobody9999
>In the case of married couples, the spouse has a moral obligation to satisfy
the other sexually within moral and reasonable limits (i.e., sexual abuse or
objectification of the other is never admissible).

I can't agree with those statements. No one, not your spouse, not your
significant other and not anyone else is _obliged_ to provide sexual
satisfaction to you or anyone else.

What's more, while consent is _never_ optional, pleasing one's partner should
be a joy, and if your partner desires objectification or even what _you_ (note
that what you think and believe doesn't apply to everyone else) term "sexual
abuse," that's between _consenting_ adults.

Your judgement as to what is "moral" is an individual judgement that applies
to _you_. There are more things (as well as kinks and fetishes) in earth and
heaven than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

And just so it's crystal clear, consent is _never_ optional and no one,
regardless of relationship status is _obligated_ to provide sexual
satisfaction to anyone.

~~~
dTal
You have interpreted the parent exceedingly uncharitably. If one partner in a
monogamous relationship suddenly announces that from that day forth there
shall be no more sex, the other partner is certainly within their rights to be
upset. Most people aren't signed up to the idea of never having sex again.

Consent is never optional, but neither should it be unreasonably withheld in a
monogamous relationship in which sex is a key component. Rights and
responsibilities always pair.

~~~
nobody9999
>You have interpreted the parent exceedingly uncharitably.

Perhaps I have. However, I don't see how much more "charitably" I can
interpret what they wrote. Or do you think that I'm wrong in my assertion?

>If one partner in a monogamous relationship suddenly announces that from that
day forth there shall be no more sex, the other partner is certainly within
their rights to be upset.

I don't disagree with that statement at all. But I stand by my assertion that
no one is _obligated_ to sexually satisfy anyone else.

If my spouse/SO decided that she wanted no more sex with me, sure I'd be
upset. And as my feelings are my own, I'm entitled to be upset.

However she, as a sentient being, has _agency_. As such, _she_ (not me) gets
to decide what happens with _her_ body.

Should a situation similar to your example occur, that should be a big red
flag that _something_ is wrong in your relationship. And if that's the case,
going on about how your spouse is _obliged_ to pleasure you certainly isn't
going to improve things.

>Consent is never optional, but neither should it be unreasonably withheld in
a monogamous relationship in which sex is a key component.

How do you handle the logic problem set up by your statement?

If consent to sexual activity is _not_ optional, how is someone _obliged_ to
provide such sexual activity if they don't wish to consent?

>Rights and responsibilities always pair.

Neither you nor I have the _right_ to demand sexual contact with someone who
does not consent. Full stop. It doesn't matter what your relationship with
that person might be.

And providing you (or anyone else) with sexual contact isn't anyone's
responsibility, again regardless of what sort of relationship you might have
with them.

And that's the issue that I have with both your and the parent poster's
statements.

You said it yourself: Consent is not optional. If you truly believe that, how
can you even entertain the idea that someone should be _obligated_ , or have
the responsibility to provide sexual satisfaction to anyone _if they choose
not to do so_?

I don't disagree that it's _customary_ for those in a romantic/sexual
relationship to engage in sexual activity. But no one is obligated or required
to do so.

And if you don't think that's true, consider this[0]. Because coercing someone
into non-consensual sexual activity is called _rape_.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape)

~~~
dTal
It doesn't sound as if you recognize the concept of an obligation at all. Yes,
we all have agency. Locking someone in a room without their consent is
illegal. Taking someone's money without their consent is illegal as well. But
I am nevertheless obliged to remain at work until 5:30, and my boss is obliged
to pay me. When we enter into relationships of any type with other people, we
willingly sacrifice our agency in myriad ways. Sometimes you have to meet
people halfway on things. And sex isn't some super special thing that sits
untouchably above all the rest of social interaction - it's just one more
thing that, invariably and in many ways, you will have to compromise on.

>going on about how your spouse is obliged to pleasure you certainly isn't
going to improve things.

Going on about consent isn't either.

~~~
Thorentis
Yeah, the parent seems to think that expecting sex after entering a monogamous
relationship is almost rape. People are so concerned with infringing on other
people's "rights" and obtaining conscent for everything under the sun, that
they just can't understand the idea of obligations or responsibilities
anymore.

Marriage is a huge responsibility. Entering into it means you agree to the
responsibilities it carries. Each person should be well aware of these
responsibilities before entering into one.

If your partner is in the mood for sex but you aren't on a regular basis,
maybe a little bit of self sacrifice is needed. I'm sure the other person has
helped them out doing their chores when they weren't feeling like it, or going
out of their way for them in some way. Marriage is all about each person
trying to give more to it than the other. I don't know why sex I suddenly a
taboo topic when it comes to rights and responsibilities.

~~~
mennis16
I've seen plenty of cleaning-averse husbands hire a maid to solve chore-
related relationship problems. Hell, the maid does a better job, so everyone
is happier. This is not really an option for a mismatched libido, so the
situation is trickier. Especially as libidos can change differently with age,
a couple can't entirely know what they are getting into.

Put another way, both withholding sex and insisting on monogamy simultaneously
is a shitty thing to do IMO, so I sort of agree with you. But it is also tough
for me to judge someone too much for doing so in a culture where anything but
strict monogamy is taboo.

For a concrete example, let's say a woman feels nauseous from the smell of
cooking while she is pregnant. I do not think it is the duty of that woman to
soldier through it and continue to cook. But in this situation the partner can
obtain food from anywhere else that is willing to serve. If the partner
instead was only able to eat food that one of them had cooked, it would be
tougher on the relationship for the woman to not cook at all for 9 months
straight.

So yeah compromise and sacrifice are part of a relationship, and I don't think
sex should be excluded from that. But at the same time it is unrealistic to
reach a good solution with mismatched libidos, because even a perfect
compromise can leave both parties dissatisfied/uncomfortable. Is the solution
to just end the relationship? If it is otherwise a good one I don't think so,
but strict monogamy makes this a harder call.

More generally I think people are looking for too much in a single package. To
find someone that would be compatible with you over nearly your entire
lifetime as a housemate, a co-parent, a friend, a financial partner, etc. all
rolled into one is hard enough. When you start prioritizing sexual
compatibility in this choice, good luck not having to compromise on other
features. But if sex wasn't seen as exclusive it wouldn't need to be
considered to the same extent in choosing a life partner.

~~~
Thorentis
You're basically arguing against monogamy though. My comment assumes a
monogamous relationship, and that both people went into it knowing it was
monogamous and being okay with that. Seeking sex elsewhere in a monogamous
relationship... Isn't monogamous.

------
rland
> Participants in the “desk” condition left mostof their belongings in the
> lobby but took their phones into the testing room “for use in a later
> study;” once in the testing room, they were instructed to place their phones
> facedown in a designated location on their desks.

Yeah, color me skeptical. You're in a study currently, and you're asked to
place your phone on your desk for a later study. This is quite different from
just having your phone around, because you're basically thinking about
'phones' and 'studies' together _while you 're in the study._

That's very different from 'mere presence' in my mind.

~~~
Dumblydorr
Isn't that what we constantly do with our phones: keep them around just in
case, for when we inevitably get a text or call or think of something to text
or get the urge?

------
gooseus
I think this needs a (2017), here is a link to a PDF -
[https://rady.ucsd.edu/docs/faculty/aGneezy/Published%20Paper...](https://rady.ucsd.edu/docs/faculty/aGneezy/Published%20Papers/BrainDrain_Published.email.pdf)

~~~
sbierwagen
To save a click:

>Five hundred forty-eight undergraduates participated for course credit. [...]
Our final sample consisted of 520 smartphone users.

520 isn't as bad as I was expecting, but it's still an order of magnitude away
from being meaningful. And, obviously, a study population consisting only of
students attending the same class is maybe going to be slightly biased.

------
disown
Isn't this true for any source of distraction? What about a baseball or a book
or a dvd or anything?

The presence of a distraction reduces cognitive capacity? Other than
superficially padding their "researchers'" resume, what is gained by this
"study"?

We've know this for years. It's why teachers insist kids put away their
smartphones, etc.

~~~
flanbiscuit
> Isn't this true for any source of distraction?

Thought the same thing. Sure I can put my smartphone out of sight while
working but I am on a computer with the same exact level of access that my
smartphone provides. Sometimes I can get in a zone and sometimes I flip
between work and distracting myself with sites like HN. I can answer SMS and
DMs for all my services and social sites in the browser. Pre-pandemic you can
throw an open office plan into the mix as a big distractor as well. I listen
to non-vocal chill electronic music while I work and I bet there's some study
out there showing that listening to any type of music while trying to work
reduces cognitive capacity (I'm speculating here). I feel like managing
distraction just a big part of life these days.

------
kashyapc
Many here might know this, but worth mentioning again: A simple but underrated
remedy to reduce the colourful appeal of a "smartphone" is to put it in black-
and-white mode (i.e. gray scale). On Android you can do it this way:

'Developer options' \--> 'Simulate color space' \--> 'Monochromacy'

I couple that with:

\+ Turning off _all_ notifications.

\+ I don't use any of the run-of-the-mill social media for about 7 years.

\+ Most of my serious reading is largely via old-fashioned books.

All of the above makes it for a damn calm device.

~~~
mkskm
This helps except that it needs to be turned off frequently for viewing and
taking photos. It would be great if there were something like the smart invert
setting for grayscale but I doubt that will ever happen.

~~~
ed312
On iOS you can bind the accessibility shortcut to toggle this mode (triple
click the lock button).

------
phobosanomaly
Perhaps it's functioning as a substitute for the constant social interaction
that was once a facet of living in a tribal society.

We always had someone near us we were chatting with, but now that we have
eliminated that level of social connection in the modern social environment,
we have replaced it with the smartphone. It may just be satisfying a hardwired
biological need for constant chit-chat.

If you look at it that way, as a coping technique for loneliness, it doesn't
seem too bad.

~~~
Barrin92
Social Media isn't a substitute for healthy social interaction which becomes
very evident when one looks at the psychological outcomes of people who use it
heavily, particular say, teenage girls.

Most social media interaction isn't genuine conversation between peers but a
sort of status contest in which people pull up façades and present idealised
versions of themselves, mostly strongly influenced by whatever is trending
within society at large.

An important finding of loneliness research has repeatedly been that
loneliness is _not_ equivalent to merely not being in contact with others. One
can be alone but not lonely, and one can be lonely while superficially in
contact with others.

~~~
demosito666
> Most social media interaction isn't genuine conversation between peers but a
> sort of status contest

But exactly the same is true for regular communications, especially for
teenagers, whose whole life is making impression on their peers.

~~~
inglor_cz
There is a difference, though. In real life, a lot of your conversations are
either one-to-one, or in a very small group of people who are not obsessed
with impressions. You are freer there.

On the social networks, the peer group is much larger and much more attentive.
Private conversations can be had, but public conversations with massive
audience of listeners are way more common than IRL.

------
justinlloyd
I lack a lot of self-control in many areas of my life. Except when it comes to
my smartphone which for me is a tool rather than an entertainment device. Most
of my day the phone is in DnD/flipped over on the second desk in my office and
not within arm's reach. I don't know how much having the device in the same
room as me is a "cognitive capacity reducer" but for the most part, my
smartphone is a forgotten device except for when I need to use it for
something.

My needs in a smartphone are: Maps & navigation. Local business lookup. Bank
account. Audible. Camera. Password manager. Calculator. Grocery shopping list.
Recipe book for when at the grocery store. Authenticator. Uber. Check email.
SMS. Occasional voice call.

All audible notifications except for alarms and calendar are disabled. All
visual notifications are disabled except for SMS. I get conversation starter
SMS messages once, maybe twice a month, at most. I don't even have games &
apps that I worked on installed on my device. I just keep shortcuts to videos
of them on the device in case I need to show them off.

I don't know if this is a normal behaviour for people that have smartphones. I
do see an awful lot of people totally engrossed in their devices to the
exclusion of all others. I also see, anecdotally, some people, software
developer colleagues, who don't get anything more than a few minutes before
the smartphone cheeps or chirps with a new notification or distraction.

I've actually thought about getting rid of my oh-so-delicate-dont-ever-drop-it
smartphone and just going back to a flip phone, though I'd miss the camera. I
take a lot of pictures of things for reference, e.g. disassembling a piece of
electronics or a piece of furniture I want to copy.

~~~
godshatter
I have a fairly nice smart phone, and I use it for phone calls, text messages,
2FA, e-books, taking pictures, checking the weather forecast, and as a
clock/timer/alarm. In a pinch I'll look something up or access my bank
account, but very rarely. I'm in front of my desktop computer 10 to 12 hours a
day, if I need to search for something on the web I'll do it then. If I want
to play a game, I'll play it on my expensive desktop computer. If I'm going on
a trip I'll bring my laptop.

I must be in the minority, but the size and ergonomics of the phone make it a
last-resort sort of device for me despite the fact that it looks like a
futuristic sci-fi device.

~~~
justinlloyd
Agreed. It is a last resort device for me, for the most part. "Banking" is the
one anomaly, but really what I want is a widget that tells me "this is how
much you have in your account." For weather forecast I have a dedicated tablet
that tells me that. :-)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23778254](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23778254)

------
roedog
I made my largest gains in programming competence almost 10 years ago when
working on a system with no connection to the internet and no cell phone at
hand. I was working a development assignment on an air-gapped network. Not
being able to search google every time I got stuck forced me to actually read
the documentation, man pages, and reference books and think through what was
going on and come up with solutions. The internet terminal was a 10 minute
walk away so I treated it like a trip to the library for research only after I
had spent time working on the problem myself.

~~~
fuzzfactor
>I treated it like a trip to the library for research only after I had spent
time working on the problem myself.

This is contrary to the (also true) conventional wisdom where _6 months in the
lab can save you hours in the library_.

So you have to be careful.

But it can work exceptionally well once you've already been to the library a
bit, you know better & better what it has to offer, when you do go back it's
with a clearer focus on what you need, and you get the most out of it.

------
ed25519FUUU
I was just remarking the other day while doing my morning constitutional that
I can't remember what I used to do while sitting on the john when I didn't
have a cell phone. I honestly couldn't remember. Probably just sit quietly and
think and be bored.

I wonder if boredom is good for us. Our brains probably need time not to be
engaged with our eyes do mental housecleaning. Meditation is good but it's not
the same as sitting and being bored.

~~~
wlesieutre
Read the ingredients on a shampoo bottle

~~~
ed25519FUUU
WOW flashback! I absolutely remember doing that, and wondering what "shea
butter" was (obviously I couldn't quickly google it).

------
m0zg
More broadly, I think the mere availability of mindless entertainment reduces
one's ability to do anything else. I observe this in myself and others. In
order to willingly do useful things, I need to be bored. That's when I feel a
need to do something, and if that "something" is not Instagram or YouTube, I
go for the more salient things. So for me boredom is a very useful state to be
in. If I can't get bored (if entertainment is immediately available) I will
not do anything useful at all. I have to make a conscious decision to not
access entertainment during the day in order to get anything done. Fortunately
I can do that without much of a drain on my willpower reserves.

But my son (and his peers) grew up in a world where everyone has Internet at
all times, and the problem is more severe there. I'm trying to convince him
that the way he's doing things now (basically 8 hours of YouTube and games a
day, and lots of missing homework) will cause much regret in the future and
will lead to a much worse lifestyle. So far I have failed to convince him of
that though.

~~~
jessemcbride
That's a great observation. We chase the noise all the time, but what would
happen if we let ourselves be bored instead?

~~~
m0zg
Another observation is, boredom (at least for me) is a necessary pre-requisite
for thinking deeply about things. I've noticed this years ago when I was at
Google. When a hard problem would arise (which was nearly every day), I'd go
for a long walk outside, leaving my phone on my desk. By the end of the walk,
I'd usually either have a solution, or a viable start of a solution. A lot of
good work was done on those walks.

~~~
non-entity
A few weeks ago, my power went out and my phone was nearly dead, so I let it
sit for the time. In the time I had se thing id been working on "click" while
just pacing around the apartment.

------
didibus
I want a smartphone that only has useful apps and nothing else.

I want it to have SMS and Phone, Google Maps, Uber, Lyft, Uber Eats, and such.

But I don't want social media, I don't want news, I don't want a browser, I
don't want email, etc.

~~~
dgarrett
Apple Watch with LTE mostly fulfills this. And the screen is so small that
it’s not worth it to port more addictive apps.

~~~
mkskm
I'm surprised Lyft/Uber hasn't been brought back yet. It would be extremely
useful to have on hand now with the cellular model.

~~~
dgarrett
Uber is still on WatchOS and it works independently with LTE:
[https://apps.apple.com/us/app/uber-request-a-
ride/id36867736...](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/uber-request-a-
ride/id368677368#?platform=appleWatch)

------
bigdict
I keep my smartphone in a different room when I’m working from home. When it’s
on my desk, even covering it with a piece of paper helps.

------
daniel_iversen
I wrote 5 simple things you can do to improve calm, productivity and focus
using your phone:

[https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-simple-immediate-hacks-
impr...](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-simple-immediate-hacks-improving-
your-mobile-phone-calmness-daniel/?trackingId=8U0joNfvRC6NLEk2ocaCpg%3D%3D)

My favorite personal tip is to turn off colors on the phone and run in pure
black and white mode :) I've done this for about 2 years now and I loove it!

IF you try any tricks to reduce reliance, stimulation and/or distraction on
your phone, go into Screen Time (or Android equivalent) and take a screenshot
of how much you've picked up your phone in the last 7 days (because Screen
Time doesn't maintain history) so you can compare later on to see if you've
improved!

~~~
smichel17
Thank you for the reminder to turn grayscale back on.

I really like its impact on my phone usage, but occasionally I come across
something that I want/need color for, and don't always remember to turn
grayscale back on again when I'm done.

------
Nbox9
Do you believe this effect applies to you? If not, why.

If you believe in this effect, and still keep a smartphone, why?

~~~
mym1990
Just like many addictions, just because you know the negative side-effects
doesn't mean you are willing to give up the activity. Plenty of people know
how bad fast food or smoking can be, but the trade off of feeling good while
doing it is too good to pass up.

A lot of times I find myself picking up the phone to message one person, but I
end up on a 15 minute journey scrolling through whatever social media I am on
and almost forget my initial intention. Disciple is obviously a big factor
here.

I think this can be managed without totally getting rid of your smartphone.
Like the saying goes: "out of sight, out of mind". Everyone's mileage will
vary though, just my 2c

------
Terretta
Turn off all notifications. Turn off all badges.

Change default text tone and ring tone to silence (make or purchase a ringtone
of silence). Set custom ring tone for your partner or other key people (you
will always be happy to be interrupted by) to whatever sound you would want in
emergency.

At this point, only those you would welcome interruption from can get your
attention. For meetings, toggle phone to silent, so even the custom ring
people won’t make noise.

If you “must” be reachable in real time for work, consider scheduling DND for
all hours outside work hours. You can, on a contact by contact basis,
designate individuals as able to dial through DND for emergencies.

------
nbzso
Just sharing my approach. Phone is for calls and short messages, banking apps.
After 6pm I reply only for close friends/family. No gaming. No movies. No tv.
Old Ipad Air for casual browsing/rss. Work computer is only for work.
Different machine is research and learning. Book reading on e-reader and
paper. Drinking lot of water, active breaks every 30 minutes. When I feel that
I have reached my cognitive daily peak - I stop everything and focus on
relaxation. Never been so happy and productive in my life:)

~~~
achempion
I mostly doing the same except my rss in emacs and ipad for reading.

Would you mind elaborate about relaxation because I feel it's so easy to start
browsing HN instead of getting proper rest.

------
RIMR
This is reinforcing my theory that the ideal mobility solution is a limited-
feature cell phone primarily used for messaging and calls, and a full-featured
tablet that you have to keep in a bag, plus a bunch of accessories that tie
everything together.

Smartphones are inconvenient in size and don't fit in pockets. There's no
great solution for running with a phone. They're fragile and heavy making them
easy to break when dropped. They act as a constant attention drain alerting
you to every tiny thing that happens. They have terrible battery life.

You could go back to having a flip/candybar/slider phone with multiple days of
battery life on a single charge that can use all of your messaging services
and make calls. Add a few Uber shortcuts, a media controller, and a nice
camera and you have the perfect pocket companion.

You could have a nice tablet for everything else like social media,
multimedia, games, and streaming, - even one that is functionally a laptop if
you're going to need a bag for it. Let it run in a low power mode so that it
can drive streaming music to your bluetooth headset and you can use your cell
phone as a basic media remote.

Basically run the iPhone/Apple Watch model, but with more devices with strict
(but customizable) limitations.

If you go jogging, let the cell phone consume more power to stream music so
you don't have to carry any other heavy gadgets to stream to your headphones.
If you have a smart watch, let it stream cached songs and make calls in case
of an emergency and ditch the phone altogether.

And you could even have a regular smart phone in the mix if that format is the
best for the situation, but I really hate constantly needing my giant phone
when I go anywhere.

------
zaidf
I can vouch for this :) From Jan to March (when covid hit), I started leaving
my phone at work on Fridays. People would ask me "why not just leave it in
another room or in your bag at home?" and I would say "it is not the same!".
Indeed, the mere knowledge that I have the phone within reach was noticeably
more distracting than knowing it was a mile away.

------
charlesju
One trick I've been doing recently is I've reduced my cell phone internet plan
to a monthly cap with rollover. And then I only turn on my cell internet when
I really need it for something. This has changed my default behavior pattern
outside to disconnect from the internet, and that has let me feel a lot more
present in whatever I'm doing.

------
crazygringo
First of all, with the caveat that, as is so common with psych studies, this
was performed _on undergraduates only_. There is no reason to assume that this
would necessarily extend to a 30-year-old mother, a 40-year business
executive, etc. (To the contrary, one could also imagine that having their
phone on them _increased_ their capacity to think about other things, with the
peace of mind that they can get things done efficiently.)

But secondly, the headline to the paper "reduces available cognitive
capacity", while written to sound bad, _isn 't obviously bad at all_.

Your _overall_ cognitive capacity isn't reduced -- it's just some is being
taken up by thinking about your phone. One hypothesis could be that if you're
able to be reached, then you spend time worrying about the things people will
be reaching you for -- if you've sent that e-mail, if you've finished that
report, if you've decided whether or not to go to that event.

That these are things you have to figure out or do _anyways_ , and if you're
not worrying about them now, you'll still have to later. Yes, removing the
smartphone lets you relax _for now_ , but that's just temporary. Otherwise it
might be happening later over dinner instead.

What would be _more_ interesting would be to find _variance_ in the data --
which participants had reduced cognitive capacity and which _didn 't_ \-- and
then correlate that with other reported differences, such as their stress
levels, to-do's, obligations, etc.

I'm _quite_ sure the answer isn't as simple as "smartphones make us dumb", but
closer to the truth that in being instantly connected to other people, that's
something our brain is busy managing. But you know what? That may very well be
a net benefit -- that being connected allows us to achieve our goals better,
more, faster. That the cognitive capcity it's using is a _good_ use.

~~~
skratlo
What goals? So far those goals seem to be related to planet destruction via
excessive consumption. Slowing down is what can save us from extinction.

~~~
crazygringo
Well, obviously yes if you're a cynic and think our goal is to destroy the
planet, then that. But that seems... extreme.

Conversely, if you're optimistic, then you might imagine that all the people
trying to _save_ the planet are using the coordination and information that
cellphones enable to gain more influence and achieve _that_.

Five hundred years ago, I'm sure people made the same arguments about books --
that they kept our concentration from the immediate present, and could be used
to achieve bad things. I'm pretty sure books turned out to be a net positive.
I feel the same way about cell phones.

------
sasaf5
I wanted to get rid of my phone, but the leverage given by my portable emacs
machine + instant Wikipedia lookup was just too much to give away.

Without much success I have tried for a long time to quit the most addictive
things on my phone (reading news, watching videos), until I recently came up
with a doctrine that has been working well: I keep the fun for my laptop, and
away from my phone. This way I am not constantly attracted to it, but also not
completely out of the loop in a way that would make me abandon my discipline.

Texting remains an unsolved problem... Bantering with all my friend circles at
multiple timezones the whole day does distract me very much, but is also a big
source of non-programming happiness, which I am in dire need during the
pandemic.

------
ChrisCinelli
I used to be addicted to my laptops. I used to over-work and when I was not
working I was reading a lot of articles and spending time on news and some
social networks. Even if I am selective with who I add as friends and follow,
it is a lot of time that does not have good ROI. It was pretty much no stop
activity since I woke up to when I was going to sleep.

I stopped completely using computers except for work. It has been pretty hard
transition.

What happened is that I shifted to use a lot more my smartphone.

I tried to keep it in airplane mode or turn off the data for most of the time.
I also tried to have different devices for different activities.

Switching to a dumb phone seems extreme but I am wondering if it is the final
solution.

~~~
defnotashton2
I'm in the same boat.

------
mtalantikite
Lately I’ve just been completely powering off my phone and leaving it in
another room while I’m coding. Not that it ever was much of a problem for me,
but I’ve really been enjoying one less (massive) distraction.

------
smartphone91643
i thanked my last smartphone in Magic of Tidying Up induced tearful mania then
crushed it with a small boulder. weirdest dreams ever as my brain went ohno
there went my backup how does physical space work. since ditched pc, ereader,
internet, and finally flip phone, going paper purist for 4 months. typing this
now on an olympically defunct 3g numpad phone so listen up. it's a cruel lie
that living without the stuff is hard. taking the plunge will take months and
leave you weeping in the shower. or maybe i have a mind that naturally reacts
strongly to it idunno nobody like that here right. the part that can take
weeks of stressfull time work is deleting accounts. digital detox whoo sure
great but imagine the freedom of having nothing to return to. all the Kondo
insight maps over: does this device, login, file, data in the cloud somewhere
bring me joy? my digital closet had millions of identifiable objects, taking
up no less space for being virtual. there is aversion in the ambiguous task
each represents. gonna drop social media? gotta at least consider you might
need that squash recipe burried in chat. glance over every app and service you
use and ask how do i live without it -and- where do i find the time and
wheelbarrow to get myself out. more saliently, which of the people on the
other side do i say bye to or ask for more intimate contact info? the
dauntingness of unknowns can only be faced with the will to exit. the only
ultimate fate of the unrefactorable is deletion. if you're even a little
concerned about the tools you use robbing some magic alternative future for
yourself, dont detox, switch.

------
tester756
I almost never used smartphone and I'm in early 20s

I just know I'd spend way too much time on surfing the net.

It's not hard but sometimes I worry that some situation will occur where
access to the internet would really help

------
ezekiel68
I find the majority of responses to these published findings to be
fascinating. It's like when we learned in the past few years that humans only
have a finite capacity for willpower within a given (short) timeframe. The
near universal reaction among my intelligent friends was something like,
"Well, I'm sure that's true for all those OTHER people..."

Disclosure: My smartphone (currently) remains by my side. But this has got me
thinking about the dilemma.

~~~
ajkjk
That conclusion about willpower is quite suspect, fyi. See
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_depletion).

------
idiocrat
One possible factor could be that if those researchers are taking away the
source of my happiness hormones (the sweet cloud of mindless meme browsing)
that then my brain goes in overdrive and releases fighter hormones, so I can
quickly finish with that stupid experiment and that I get my toy back quickly.

I think they are measuring the wrong thing.

A junkie can get very creative and intelligent just to get his/her next shot.

------
omgwtfbyobbq
I feel like this applies to just about anything that compels us to pay
attention to it (TV, video games, etc...), albeit in different ways depending
on the media.

~~~
JJMcJ
Go to laundromat. Bring book, this time I'm going to get some reading done.
Oooh, moldy golf tournament (or soap opera) on TV. And there goes 90 minutes.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Last week when I was in a hospital waiting room, I knocked out _A Brief
History of Time_ in one sitting. That thing's been on my bookshelf for at
least ten years untouched. I'm not sure it significantly enhanced my life
(though it helped my understanding of the fabric of the universe, I guess?),
but it felt like an accomplishment.

~~~
Jtsummers
I spent a good chunk of the last few years in physical therapy. Before
sessions in the waiting room, and during the period of the session where
they're applying heat/cooling or electricity I got a _lot_ of reading done.

I had a rule, broken recently and I need to restore it, of no electronics in
my sitting room. Made it a very productive reading area as well. No laptop,
tablet, kindle [0], or phone. At most I listened to music in it. Part of the
problem was I started reading some programming books and wanted to code up
things along with the text (like working through math exercises while reading
a math book). I need to start handwriting the code and type it up at the desk
later.

[0] It's a Kindle Fire in my case. Which offers some of the same distractions,
despite being lower power, as a tablet or phone. I did use it in there when I
was actually reading on it sometimes. But it's a risk.

~~~
cgriswald
> Part of the problem was I started reading some programming books and wanted
> to code up things along with the text (like working through math exercises
> while reading a math book).

I tagged along on my then-girlfriend's business trip to LA because I had never
been to California. She had the car and work during the day so there wasn't
much I could do until she got back in the evenings. I had brought along a book
on perl and learned both perl syntax and regular expressions one afternoon.
Having to check everything by hand until I got back home required that I
really understood the syntax and helped me retain it in a way that I think
would have been more difficult if I just had a computer telling me if it was
right or wrong.

~~~
Jtsummers
Yep. Practically, I learned to program mostly by reading BASIC listings back
around 1990-1992 and would have time on my parents' computer in the
afternoon/evening to try and type things up. A lot of my code was hypothetical
(never executed).

In college at GT circa 2000, this was how the first CS course was also taught
(with a pseudocode language). I liked it, I learned the ins and outs of data
structures and algorithms (though not a specific language), but most student
hated it. I've periodically handwritten substantial (but not huge, think 1-5k
lines) amounts of code to good effect. Usually, when typed in the errors were
mostly transcription errors. Of course, I also elided large repetitive
sections and developed a shorthand (like I'd use indentation rather than
noting every curly brace, used min..max notation, etc.).

I originally learned Haskell with this approach (I came across the notebook
I'd used while preparing for my move earlier this year) as well, but that
language is particularly well-suited to being handwritten compared to many
other languages (it's brief, but not imprecise, and promotes algebraic
reasoning).

------
ashutoshgngwr
Apparently the link submitted here requires you to pay $20 in order to access
the content. I emailed one of the authors and he was unaware of this. In
response, he added a PDF version of the article on his website.
[http://www.adrianfward.com/](http://www.adrianfward.com/) (third publication
from the top as of now).

------
_bramses
I actually use two phones. One is an old one I planned on recycling, but now I
use it as my "focus" phone. The only apps on it are: Forest, Spotify, Kindle,
and the ones Apple won't let me remove.

When I'm working I put my main driver phone in another room entirely. This
strategy has been doing wonders for my focus, and I still get to jam to my
favorite tunes while working.

------
frank2
[https://sci-hub.tw/10.1086/691462](https://sci-hub.tw/10.1086/691462)

------
dagaci
Unable to read past the abstract here, so I'm guessing that the the mere
presence of the smartphone causes an unconscious distraction because the phone
might "do something".

Is it possible the that simply switching off the device will eliminate the
distraction and impact on attention?

------
jupp0r
I came here to criticize the clickbait title only to find out that the
clickbait title is on the actual paper as well! Of course the "presence" of
smart phones cannot reduce cognitive capacity, it's the things we've learned
to associate with smart phones (if it's true at all).

------
abhayhegde
How do you guys cope up with the lack of social media presence? I understand
the drama and inattention it brings, but what about the urge to connect with
people or learn from others? Also, is it beneficial not to have an online
portfolio when it comes to jobs or opportunities?

~~~
pas
Drama? Inattention? Could you explain that a bit? Do you mean twitter drama
and FB racist uncle drama, and lack of faceless "happy birthdays" on FB? Or
the lack of validating likes on instagram?

Because I found that to connect with people to learn FB is a complete
nonstarter, instagram and twitter are both hopelessly trash due to their
write-only nature. It's very hard to learn just by observing. (Sure, there are
a few counter-examples, when you ask some expert/authority on some subject and
they reply and many other folks too, and you might get some insight. But
usually those are shallow, lacking detail, etc.)

Also, just being on these platforms doesn't mean you have to use them. (I mean
I use FB Messenger all the time, but it's completely silent, I don't even get
notifications - I have no idea why, I tried to somehow enable them, but they
still don't show up, so if someone wants something they have to GSM call me.)
So, just have a profile, fill out your about/bio, and so recruiters/HR will be
at ease.

Focused, moderated subreddits are usually okay. Plus now thinking about it,
reporting GitHub issues and trying to fix bugs helped the most with learning
something. (Unfortunately it only works for code related things, but usually
there are open communities for other domains where one can participate and
learn from others.)

------
agumonkey
I can personally say the same for internet. When my ISP goes down my brain
unfold 2x and time slows down.

------
rajeshmr
Quitting smartphone has been incredible for me and i don't miss it at all. :)

~~~
rvz
Good job. The same companies are now trying to do the same thing but with
Smartwatches that tell the time and...

\- More Notifications

\- Messaging

\- Calling

\- Internet

\- GPS

\- Plays music, video and podcasts

\+ Health and Fitness (Can't disagree with that one)

and finally the worst saved until last...

\- Apps

The industry is doing it all over again with the smartphone but now it will be
all on your wrist, but marketed cleverly as a 'Health and Fitness device'.

~~~
mkskm
Have you tried the Apple Watch? I don't find it addictive at all. On the
contrary, it's significantly reduced my phone use and nearly eliminated the
need for taking my phone when going out if not for missing some essential
functionality (e.g. Lyft/Uber, offline maps, an affordable cell plan).

~~~
rashkov
How about with an LTE model? I’m thinking that with a pair of AirPods and an
LTE Apple Watch, I may be able to leave the phone at home while still being
able to text, make phone calls, get directions, and even order a taxi. Maybe
even stream some music.

Anyone with experience doing this?

------
darosati
[https://scite.ai/reports/brain-drain-the-mere-
presence-2NEep...](https://scite.ai/reports/brain-drain-the-mere-
presence-2NEepVn)

Interesting support for this article

------
gexla
I'm the same as many here for whom the computer is the problem rather than the
cell phone. What's interesting is that the computer is simultaneously a
bicycle for the mind and a handicap.

------
quantumwoke
During COVID I threw my phone out as a potential infection risk, and my life
has been all the better for it. I'm happier, less sick, and I feel more
intelligent. Win win! :).

------
anthk
\- Use ed as a text editor \- go back to usenet with slrn. Less noise, a
slower pace \- get gamebooks \- use youtube-dl, listen to media offline \-
code or write a book, stop consuming and sharing

------
dang
Discussed at the time:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14639967](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14639967)

------
kuharich
Past comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14639967](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14639967)

------
_def
I recently took a camping trip with some friends (one weekend) and left my
phone at home. Except for not knowing which time it is, it was a very positive
experience.

~~~
justinlloyd
"What time is it?"

If I am awake it is after 9:30AM but before 4AM. If I am asleep it is after
4AM but before 9:30AM. Only my dog cares about the any other time such as:
time for a walk. time for breakfast. time for a nap. time for dinner. time for
another walk. :-)

------
ChrisCinelli
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_technology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_technology)

------
anonytrary
Extremely fascinating and an instanceof "people who are given everything in
life don't know how to take care of themselves".

------
rkunal
Is there a metric that directly or indirectly indicates the amount of
cognitive capacity used/spent ? Something like maybe calories.

------
nix23
It's not the presence, it's the operating mode of your Smartphone...namely
Airplanemode, which is my main-mode.

------
balola
I guess using a really old model helps avoid it.

------
germinalphrase
As a teacher of high schoolers, I believe this.

------
solidist
The Presence of One’s Smart Friend/Coworker Increases Available Cognitive
Capacity (always)

------
bitxbitxbitcoin
I wonder just how much worse it is if you have two phones? One for work use
and one for personal use.

------
nerdponx
I wonder if this has implications for our understanding of addiction more
generally in humans.

------
firstSpeaker
Anyone has access to the source of the article? Aka, the full text/PDF to
share it?

~~~
takeda
Had the same question, looks like here's a link[1].

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24519880](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24519880)

------
cmoscoso
All these people addicted to their phone.

Glad I only use mine to call my drug dealer.

------
poma88
Please could you provide the same study type for each social network, thanks!

------
atarian
That's a funny way of saying "smartphones are distracting"..

------
hindsightbias
“Point of View is worth 80 IQ points.” — Alan Kay

Your phone gates yor viewpoint.

------
takeda
Is there a way to access the paper without the subscription?

------
corytheboyd
We got to smart phones for a reason.

Keep your phone.

Use services through a web browser instead of standalone applications, then
delete said applications.

Turn off notifications for remaining applications that do not warrant the
urgency of push notifications.

Live your life.

------
known
Does Calculators reduce Arithmetic capabilities ?

------
hexbinencoded
TL;DR: Smartphones with either productivity or socialization don't mix.

I don't doubt it. During work, notes should be taken on paper and smartphones
should be left away as a general guide.

I also think the same should apply to social gatherings and meetings because
the point of being with others hinges on attention. (Otherwise, it could've
been done over email.) What does it say to others when someone doesn't appear
to be listening or their speech slows because they're trying to read a
notification?

------
hk__2
This should be suffixed with "(2017)"

------
justizin
somehow this is not surprising at all. :/

------
jessaustin
I know a couple of old guys who will _love_ this.

~~~
Shared404
Old guys know stuff.

Many times, it's useful stuff other's have forgotten.

~~~
jupp0r
I agree with you and GP at the same time.

~~~
Shared404
Both are sides of the same coin. I just figured I'd bring up the other side.

~~~
jessaustin
Frankly I don't see any disagreement. I didn't say "old guys" as an epithet.
They call themselves that...

~~~
nobody9999
>Frankly I don't see any disagreement. I didn't say "old guys" as an epithet.
They call themselves that...

As an _older_ (never old! Okay not for another ten years or so. :) ) guy, I
can say that while I do have a smartphone, I primarily use it as a ( _gasp_ )
phone. I also do SMS (Signal is preferred, but many folks aren't security
conscious) and read email.

I don't use my phone for _anything_ that has or could have financial
implications -- phones just aren't secure enough for that.

What's more, after being an early adopter of social media (FB in 2004), I gave
it up years ago because the business model was clearly exploitative and I
wanted no part of it anymore.

Besides, as an IT/InfoSec professional, I spend way too much time looking at
screens anyway and don't need to be constantly looking at my phone too.

Heck, I just went and ran a few errands and _didn 't even bring the damn thing
with me_.

I'd point out that it wasn't very long ago that few people had mobile devices.
In fact, when I was a child, few people even had (now obsolete) answering
machines in their homes.

And wonder of wonders, we managed to do just fine.

Sure, it's useful to have a device that allows me to look up directions or get
information about someplace I may be going, or let others know if I need to
change plans or similar stuff. But that's just convenience, not a necessity.

I've been working with, designing and implementing internetworking solutions
since ~1990, most of that time as a paid professional, so I'm not exactly a
Luddite either.

In fact, I'm more technical than most younger people. And because I've been
doing InfoSec for decades, I'm aware of the risks, as well as the benefits of
being constantly connected.

IMHO, unless there's some important reason to be tethered to one's device (a
family member's health, on-call duties, etc.) the risks often outweigh the
benefits.

Now get off my lawn!

Edit: Added context WRT convenience vs. necessity

