
Windows 8.1 Update 1: More interface concessions - tumba
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/windows-8-1-update-1-more-interface-concessions-that-still-wont-make-people-happy/
======
chris_wot
_And likewise, they 're still shutting down from software, perhaps unaware
that the power switch will do the job, and are conditioned to do so after
years of operating systems complaining when they weren't shut down properly.
So maybe it's not just Windows 8 that Microsoft did a poor job of explaining
to Windows users—maybe it's every version of Windows since 95._

Can't speak for Windows 8, but in Windows XP, Vista and 7 if you have an
update that requires a shutdown, pressing the button won't install the update.

~~~
protomyth
The author seems like someone who learned about a new feature in one version
of the OS and thinks others are ignorant for not seeing the change. In this
case the feature actually has a downside if used all the time.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I would hardly call Peter Bright ignorant. He is one of the most informed
voices in tech journalism, and all of his articles are fairly detailed and
useful.

~~~
protomyth
I didn't call him ignorant, I believe he thinks it of others.

------
tumba
Windows 8 on the desktop, while presenting some intriguing evolutionary
possibilities, seems like an unstable transitional form. I do not use touch or
tablet platform and consequently, I have not seen any compelling reasons for
upgrading my fleet of Thinkpads from Windows 7.

My experience managing Windows servers is rapidly improving. More and more
servers are running Core and I'm performing ever more administration remotely
by command line using PowerShell.

I bring up Windows Server because, on that platform, Microsoft is clearly
articulating a change in their philosophy of system administration. The
interactive or scripted command-line is the future of Microsoft server
administration. It exposes the underlying management and instrumenting
capabilities of Windows in highly useful ways and allows consistent workflows
for managing traditional deployments and virtual/cloud systems. They have been
clear about this direction for years, and they have facilitated a long
transition by continuing to provide the option to use full graphical installs,
and by providing management consoles for their major products that simply
execute PowerShell commands in the background.

Maybe I just haven't seen it because I don't follow the consumer facing groups
at Microsoft very closely, but I wish Microsoft would take a similarly
approach for the desktop.

Whenever I read these articles, I am thankful I am not an ISV developing for
the Windows desktop.

~~~
Einstalbert
I am actively against Windows 8 in a Domain environment as the system has
severe permissions issues for workstations with multiple users. It seems that
the first user to install items, create directories, etc. becomes the overall
master of them and this makes even basic SysPrep difficult. I am tearing my
hair out trying to get terminal servers and cloning projects done, stuff that
was a breeze on Windows 7 in comparison. I wish Microsoft was smart enough to
differentiate between their home consumers and their business consumers.

~~~
protomyth
Our guess is that the issues will continue to keep us on Windows 7 into the
next school year. I get the sick feeling we will skip 8 like we skipped Vista.

------
mwfunk
If the only problem with the Windows 8 UI changes were that people had to
learn a few new ways of doing things, it wouldn't be a big deal.

I think what really fuels a lot of the ongoing frustration over this stuff is
that it's a new way of doing things that is much more awkward than the old
way. So, not only are some of your old habits invalid, but the functionality
has been replaced by something you would rather not use in the first place.

Adding insult to injury here is the fact that the main reason these changes
were made in the first place was to get Windows users accustomed to the tablet
interface, with the assumption that they would want to use the same OS on
their tablet that they use on their desktop. It was to give Windows tablets a
leg up in the market vs. iOS and Android devices; it doesn't appear to have
been based on a desire to simply improve the desktop users' experience.

I'm sure they also wanted to create a market for touchscreen Windows PCs too.
There were probably some marketing people that were convinced that a
touchscreen would simply be a standard thing that every PC had in the future.
Who knows, it could still happen I guess. If it goes that way they may look
like geniuses in 10 years. I'm skeptical though.

~~~
MetaCosm
Remember, Windows 8 was well underway by the RTM of 7 (July 2009). So, they
made a guess that touch screens would be everywhere when they were done.
Unlike Apple, until recently, never controlled the hardware they run on.

They spent a lot of the post-DOJ years trying to find a way to bully the
hardware vendors without getting kicked in the teeth and never found a way.
This is why "signature" failed, this is why touch screens failed, this you
could even argue is why early tablets failed (way early, 6+ years ago).

MS seems to have learned this, and started building their own hardware. The
Surface 2 Pro is a remarkably nice to use device (and I didn't even reinstall
the OS, I am using stock... _gasp_ ), it is my primary mobile platform
replacing a 2013 Macbook Air. Being able to swap it between a (very heavy, but
usable) tablet, and a decent laptop is a nice combo for me... and I doodle and
write notes on it in meeting, the pen is wonderful and pressure sensitive.

------
bichiliad
The author doesn't seem to realize that what may be intuitive to people used
to some are not intuitive to everyone. Restarting your computer/device isn't
uncommon, and relying on people to use the device's power button isn't really
a good idea. Plus, there's nothing in the interface that affords type-to-
search.

~~~
downplay
Especially if you remote control the PC.

~~~
userbinator
Brings to mind bad memories of hitting "shut down" accidentally instead of
"restart" on a remote machine...

------
bananas
I'm an 8.1 user. Well sort of. My desktop is on 8.1 on my workstation and I
usually have a high bandwidth connection between whatever client device I'm
using and the desktop and use RDP. Over the last few months I've been using a
2011MBP as a client device and occasionally the wife's iPad. On a daily basis,
I deal with Windows, Linux and FreeBSD platforms from both a development and
administration perspective.

What has become apparent to me is that the only thing I still use on my
windows desktop is Visual Studio, the MS dev stack and HyperV. Past that, I've
slowly moved to a neutral ecosystem with standard formats.

When I look at this update, all I see for me is more pain to be honest. The
8.1 RDP experience is awful compared to windows 7 _because of the whole hot
corners thing_. And they're adding more!! You have to run your desktop full
screen in case you get stuck in a metro app. This is a royal pain. More than
an hour on an RDP session is stressful and counterproductive. I've managed to
reconfigure everything back to windows 7 levels but its still nowhere near as
usable for a power user.

So, for me, I'm dumping all this crap. I'm spending the weekend moving to
VMware fusion and windows 2008 r2 as a desktop (our target platform) just to
run Visual Studio and I'll can the rest. I'll use the cash from workstation
sale to buy a Retina MBP and just use that as a workstation.

Microsoft are really hanging themselves with this drive to change the UI.
There are an awful lot of non windows machines appearing in the last two
Microsoft consultancies I've worked at and I can see why.

I wont even go into the amount of relearning and churn that you have to put up
with either.

~~~
Quppa
Install a Start Menu replacement like StartIsBack
([http://www.startisback.com/](http://www.startisback.com/)) or Classic Shell
([http://www.classicshell.net/](http://www.classicshell.net/)) and voilà,
you've got the productivity of the Windows Vista/7 desktop and the performance
improvements of Windows 8/8.1. No hot corners to worry about.

Even if you don't use a third-party Start Menu replacement, this update will
mean less pain - with power and search buttons on the Start Screen, there will
be little reason to use the 'Charms bar', which eliminates two hot corners.
With the Start button's return in Windows 8.1, the bottom left hot corner
isn't an issue, either, and the top left hot corner is only necessary if you
use Modern apps (and it sounds like you don't).

Changing the default file handlers for audio and video files back to desktop
programs for non-touch users is a fantastic change and I hope heralds a small
shift of focus away from Metro.

------
b1daly
The main problem with a major change to the GUI like Windows 8 is that it
destroys a vast investment people have made in learning how to use a PC. A lot
of user interface is comprised of arbitrary choices. It might be the case that
a new way to do it (start screen vs start menu) is marginially better, but to
be worth the change it really has to be significantly better, not just
different.

It's amazing that Windows 8 was released like this when it seems like a basic
amount of user testing would show that people are not going to be happy about
having to learn a new interface. Most people who work with PCs are actually
using them to get work done, and are very pressed for time and energy.

I'm sure it was very complicated in house, but from the outside it looks like
management thought "if it's good for us, it must be good for the customer!"

~~~
joenathan
I remember people complaining about GUIs, how CLIs were so much better and
more powerful, how the mouse and cursor are so inefficient. When you change
things people are used to, people are going to complain.

~~~
m_mueller
This kind of comment really annoys me.

CLI: You need to memorize at least a basic set of commands. There is
contextual help once you know those commands, but there is no help to find out
which commands do what in the first place. Clearly intended for what we now
call power users.

Win9x/NT4+ GUI: All required operations are discoverable through reading
what's on screen and going through the menus. No manual or googling required.

Mac since OS1/.Net GUIs: Even better, hotkey commands can be discovered in the
Menus -> users can learn how to become faster while just using the programs.

OSX since 10.5: Any program on your HD, installed or not, and any operation
within these programs can be discovered through system wide search, _clearly
indicated by the search symbol staying in the top right of your screen_ as
well as the _Help_ menu. Typing after clicking on _Help_ will even point out
the command's placement in the menu such that you can memorize for next time.

Win8/Ubuntu: Trololo who needs discoverability - let's hide most of the
functionality behind non trivial gestures (we heard people like them on
Macs[1] so let's go all in on them) => the UI now has similar discoverability
properties as a CLI - you need to read the manual or google a tutorial to get
started.

[1]Note: There is currently exactly one gesture that is really needed in the
default settings on OSX (which I find a bad idea btw.): Two finger scrolling.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
You are absolutely right about discoverability. This is the major difference
compared to CLIs. But what happened is that on mobile you have very popular
UIs that have no discoverability whatsoever.

You can't even hover a mouse cursor over something you suspect might be a
control because there is no mouse cursor and what is and isn't a control isn't
always clear either. Lots of secret gestures and lots of change in every
version (at least on Android).

I'm a bit baffled as well as to why this can work. I suspect it might be
because people don't use these devices for productivity and hence they only
use a relatively small number of features. They don't need to discover new
stuff all the time and when they do it's for entertainment more than anything.

Or maybe it's because there's a new generation of mainstream users that sees
everything as a kind of adventure game where discovering hard to find
treasures is the whole point.

Maybe Microsoft's problem is that their technology people ignore the very
message their marketing people are trying to get across: PCs are for
productivity, for creating things. If you're at work trying to get things done
you're not in the mood for figuring out obscure features and the latest UX
fashions.

~~~
m_mueller
Your point basically boils down the whole issue of why Win8 is a failure: MS
blindly followed Touch UI trends in a context where Touch UI is simply weaker
than Mouse/Keyboard, and they threw away many of the advantages of a
Mouse/Keyboard oriented UI in the process. Metro might have an advantage
through its consistency across applications for Touch devices, but as long as
it's being forced onto Desktop users it will continue to alienate a big chunk
of Microsoft's core userbase. Considering the current developments I expect a
full 180 for Win9 - even the Vista start menu might come back at one point.

~~~
fauigerzigerk
I don't think touch and discoverability are mutually exclusive. I do think
that discoverability is very difficult to do on 5" screens but that doesn't
mean discoverability must be equally bad on a 10" or 20" or 24" screen.

Microsoft can't just do a u-turn and go back to the traditional desktop. What
they need to do is to scrap the old desktop altogether and use the screen real
estate that's there.

Why not implement a fully featured tiling window manager? On a small screen,
you see only one or two tiles and you have no discoverability. On a larger
screen you get extra tiles that show available commands and help text. Once
you learned your shortcuts you can remove those tiles.

~~~
m_mueller
I like your idea of a new window manager. There are a few more aspects that
need to be taken care of if one wants to bridge Touch and Desktop UIs IMO:

* contextual menus should still be available to speed up certain tasks. For touch screens these should be available through a simple gesture, for mouse/keyboard it's the right click as always. I'm thinking that for touch UI the menu entries could be placed in a circle around the point where the gesture has been initiated, without hiding anything behind the finger (the OS should recognize from what direction the finger has been placed on the screen).

* the concept of a program menu should be reimplemented. Every function should be accessible through this menu, even if there are contextual elements that implement them as well. However, this menu needs to be easily usable on touch screens as well.

* there's one element I'd propose to be always visible, no matter what screen size starting at 7 inch: The search. This search should be able to find application commands and data, OS commands, other applications as well as and system wide data (in that order).

------
darklajid
I'm using Windows 8 (and 8.1) at work a lot and never joined the hate crowd.
It's reasonably good and works for me.

My biggest gripe with the Metro (or whatever it's called now) stuff is using a
machine via RDP. Imagine a crappy client constellation where Win+something
doesn't work and now try to use that system (bonus points for 8, not 8.1).

On the other hand: I know that I don't represent the mass market. But for me,
a power button actually makes a whole lot of sense.

------
ladzoppelin
8.1 is amazing and these updates, like the task-bar metro icon for running
apps, actually sound useful. You know Microsoft is still relevant when some
unverified blog post gets 300 comments of complete anecdotal nonsense.

~~~
dangero
In what way is Windows 8 amazing?

~~~
venomsnake
Resource usage, responsiveness. They did a lot of good under the hood work
with it. Just metro ... make all the good will that would have been won go to
waste.

~~~
userbinator
To do that, they've been removing features:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Win...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Win...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_7)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Win...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_Vista)

~~~
venomsnake
Probably the only real performance hog here is the Aero Glass and maybe
backup. I doubt that the other have any meaningful impact.

------
augustl
I recently replaced Win7 with Win8 on my gaming rig. I get faster boots, and
more disk space for games on my SSD. There's a setting for going to desktop
instead of Metro when no apps are open. So the only time I use metro is when I
mistakenly left click the start button - to shut down, you can _right_ click
the start button to get a contextual menu with a shut down option.

Overall, I find Win8 better in every way, it's nothing new that you have to
change a few options to make Windows usable :)

~~~
mjhagen
You just need to pin a lot of programs to the task-bar. And pretend there
never was a start-menu.

------
cwyers
I've really never understood the fuss about the Start Screen. Although I can
use Windows 8.1 for days on end without ever seeing it, because I just use
Win-Q. (The little stubs that come up when I press Win-Q and Win-P are the
only parts of Metro that I see for weeks at a time, honestly.)

~~~
hamburglar
Well for what it's worth, what little time I have spent in win 8 has been
infuriating, and apparently it has been because it has never occurred to me to
try hitting win-q or win-p. Next time I'm sitting at a windows machine I'll
try to remember to give them a try.

This doesn't seem like a winning UI paradigm, however.

~~~
Synaesthesia
I personally found win-c for the charms bar essential, also gonna try the
win-q and win-p trick.

~~~
cwyers
To be clear, Win-P is an old keyboard shortcut (it lets you switch monitor
output -- I use it to disable my second monitor when I want to play a full-
screen game, and enable it again when I'm done), it just has a Metro look now.
Win-Q is insanely useful, though, pulls up search and you can just type the
name of the application you want.

Metro in Windows 8 was entirely useless for desktop use, especially multi-
monitor use, Metro apps could only use one monitor at a time (so you couldn't
run, say, the Netflix app on one monitor and then pull up the Start menu or
the Metro version of IE on the other) and putting multiple Metro apps on the
same screen was clunky at best. Windows 8.1 made this much better -- you can
put multiple Metro apps on a monitor, and run Metro on all your monitors at
once. You can even run a mix of Metro apps and the desktop on a monitor, so
you can run a Metro IM client in the side of the screen and have Word up in
the rest of the screen. There's such a paucity of Metro apps right now that I
haven't found much use for this, though, but if there WERE Metro apps I wanted
Windows 8.1 makes it possible to actually enjoy working with them.

------
downplay
The Start Screen still brings me nothing over the menu. The way I used to use
the Start Menu, was Windows Key + Type. With Windows 8, the search interface
eels all wrong: the search being in the top right (awkward), search results to
left of search box (awkward), thinking that your search brought up no results,
only to then arrow down (Ubuntu lens) and try again.

The mystery meat navigation/control of Windows 8 is the hardest part. I
remember the first time I used a tablet with Win 8, and I felt totally lost. I
had to Google how to use it. And I've since forgotten all the gestures.

Sure add power shortcuts, but let us have a discoverable user interface.

Also I have Win 8 on a 32inch TV, with fonts and tile sizes increased, and
it's still not very usable. I always end up on the floor in front of it
cursing.

Not to mention application switching (metro and desktop) etc. It just feels
like a very beta interface, and the said plasters in the update don't sound as
if they change much.

(Tip: Windows D, Alt + F4, Enter to shutdown lol.)

------
mschuster91
"And likewise, they're still shutting down from software, perhaps unaware that
the power switch will do the job, and are conditioned to do so after years of
operating systems complaining when they weren't shut down properly."

Well, what about stuff like rebooting, switching users and the distinction
between the three sleep modes - shutdown, s2disk and s2ram?

~~~
Too
1\. Press start 2\. Type "power butto" 3\. Press down, enter

Here you can change what the power button, the sleep button, and closing
laptop lid will do, including the different sleep modes.

~~~
mschuster91
But I don't _always_ want to do the same stuff, especially depending on the
circumstances (am I at home, how much battery is left,...).

I am not dumb, Microsoft, please do not take choice away from me. You ain't
Apple.

------
alien3d
What i see diff 8.1 and 8 1\. Click at the start icon,right click can
shutdown. 2\. Customize title at metro icon. 3\. Logout instead shutdown as
arstechnica.com website. 4\. At the below bar,click at the property can boot
directly to desktop without go to tile of metro application. 5\. Previous
Version become File History ? i cannot on it.

------
userbinator
It still looks far too much like a "tabletisation" of the desktop.

