
Uber Flunks the Better Business Bureau Test - jhonovich
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/09/uber-flunks-the-better-business-bureau-test
======
yangez
The BBB is basically a protection racket with excellent PR.

Get a customer complaint? BBB contacts you to pay for membership. Don't want
to pay for membership? You must not care about your customers, so you get an
F-. Pay for membership and the score immediately goes up to a B.

But with a name like the "Better Business Bureau", it's no wonder that people
get suckered into thinking it's a legitimate organization.

More info:
[http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_customer/2010/12/...](http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_customer/2010/12/busted_watchdog.html)
[https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110919/14221016016/criti...](https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110919/14221016016/criticize-
better-business-bureau-theyll-pull-your-accreditation.shtml)

------
Donzo
On the Android app, surge pricing is VERY clearly labeled. You have to agree
to the rate before service is dispatched and you have the option to wait until
the surge ends if you so choose.

The problem with the BBB is that nobody goes there to report positive
experiences. Only jaded customers use it to slam businesses with which they
have a vendetta. Everybody other than an aging legacy group uses Yelp or other
analogs.

Uber may fight dirty, but their product is outstanding. I'm firmly convinced
that when regulators discover how amazing it is they will attempt to either
legislate it out of existence or shake them down until their rates are no
better than taxis.

~~~
chimeracoder
> or shake them down until their rates are no better than taxis.

Despite their advertising to the contrary, Uber's rates are _not_ always lower
than yellow medallion cabs in NYC. For certain trips it may be cheaper, but
oftentimes it is just as expensive, if not more[0].

Uber's pricing structure is different from the ones that the medallion cabs
use[1], so it's not a one-to-one comparison. This makes it very easy to pick
and choose certain trips which would make Uber look cheaper (which they do),
and it's also easy to pick and choose trips which make them look more
expensive.

In addition, Uber is venture-funded and can easily operate below-cost right
now (I would be shocked if they did otherwise).

So it's worth keeping in mind that Uber's rates are arguably _already_ be no
better than taxis', depending on the city, depending on the trip, and
especially if we assume they had to operate in the black.

[0] This is hard to verify as Uber explicitly prohibits using their API for
price comparison, specifically to discourage this. Though there was a project
on HN a few weeks back which did do this, and the results were mixed (Uber won
sometimes, but not always).

[1] Which are set by the government, not by individual cabbies:
[http://www.dailydot.com/technology/uber-nyc-taxi-cheaper-
pri...](http://www.dailydot.com/technology/uber-nyc-taxi-cheaper-price-war/)

~~~
Swizec
> Despite their advertising to the contrary, Uber's rates are not always
> better than yellow medallion cabs in NYC

To be honest, I'd use Uber even if it was more expensive than taxis. User
experience is leaps and bounds ahead of any taxi I've ever used.

Three things make Uber a far superior product compared to taxis for me:

    
    
      * no awkwardness/timesuck around payment, I arrive, I walk away
    
      * feedback how long I'll be waiting - when I'm in a hurry, seeing where exactly the car is and how long it's gonna take them to get to me helps calm me down, eases my nerves, even if it doesn't make the car arrive any faster (it *feels* faster though)
    
      * call cab while still getting ready to walk outside, again something that only works because I know how far the car is

~~~
wcummings
I agree.. except in NYC. Cabs are literally everywhere, even in the outer
boroughs (I used to live in Queens) its as easy as walking out the door to
find a cab in many places.

That said, I use Uber almost exclusively in Boston/Cambridge.

------
nemothekid
Uber gets an F, for _90_ out of a million customer complaints, for providing a
clear service but Comcast has a B-?

~~~
darkstar999
BBB is bullshit. It's pay-to-play extortion just like Yelp. Clearly Comcast
has paid their dues.

[http://business.time.com/2013/03/19/why-the-better-
business-...](http://business.time.com/2013/03/19/why-the-better-business-
bureau-should-give-itself-a-bad-grade/)

[http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/a-court-has-ruled-its-
totally...](http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/a-court-has-ruled-its-totally-cool-
for-yelp-to-extort-b-1632255482)

~~~
jmckib
BBB is bullshit, agreed, but Yelp has made recent attempts to dispel the
accusations of extortion, see
[http://www.yelp.com/advertiser_faq](http://www.yelp.com/advertiser_faq). This
includes an independent academic study,
[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2293164%2...](http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2293164%20).

I'm not claiming this evidence is conclusive (I haven't looked at it closely
enough), but it's worth being aware of before making accusations like that.

~~~
darkstar999
I only read the abstract of that paper, but it doesn't address the extortion.
It only addresses _user_ fraud, such as leaving a bad rating on a competitor.

It doesn't address the fact that Yelp can manipulate reviews however they
please, as the court ruled.

~~~
jmckib
You're right that the abstract doesn't mention it, but check out section 3.4.

------
adrianbg
Given that "The Better Business Bureau, which was founded in 1912, is not a
government agency, nor does it have regulatory or enforcement power," what
implications does this have?

~~~
jstalin
The BBB sells higher ratings to those businesses that will pay, and will often
ignore legitimate complaints against those businesses.

~~~
timmclean
Source?

~~~
jstalin
Personal experience. And ask anyone else who has experience with the BBB
(other commenters on here). Just observe their "accredited business" program.

Haha, I just found this: Terror Group Gets 'A' Rating From Better Business
Bureau?

[http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/business-bureau-best-
ratings-m...](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/business-bureau-best-ratings-
money-buy/story?id=12123843)

------
cheald
Does anyone under the age of 65 actually place any faith in the BBB?

~~~
darkstar999
I used it to complain about a horrible ISP I had a few years ago. It got the
ISPs attention when I otherwise couldn't. Other than that, it has no value to
me.

------
yeehawl
I think it's a usability problem with the app - you can't easily see how much
the trip is going to cost. It's actually not even completely apparent that
you've booked a trip. The app should be redesigned to always show the quote
before booking and a very clear button that says "Book Now". The pickup
location UI could also use some work - the GPS isn't always accurate and
noticing that it's wrong and changing it isn't very intuitive. But apart from
the problematic app, I've found the service itself quite impressive - somehow
they always manage to find me and it always ends up costing less than I think
it will.

~~~
dmishe
Not sure if this was updated recently, but:

With surge pricing, they always show the multiplier at the time of booking.

And it's easy to tap "quote fare" button to see the price. I agree that it
should be there all the time, as soon as you select the destination, but
that's the thing, lots of my rides do not have destination before I get into
the car.

~~~
gergles
The quoted price doesn't include the surge. Uber goes to very very great
lengths to not show you how much you're paying when surge pricing is in play,
abstracting it away to a multiplier always.

------
aberman
The BBB gives Uber an "F" rating based on a handful of complaints? Uber serves
over a million users a month! And I'd guess most of their customers are repeat
- one sign that customers are happy with the service.

------
aneidon
Yes. Uber flunks the BBB test by not paying up. Why is this news?

------
t0mbstone
This is ridiculous. Uber clearly details the price of the ride when you
request it. People accept the estimated price, get picked up, driven to their
location, then complain to BBB and want a refund because the price was "too
high"? How dumb are these people, and why is the BBB validating their claims?

------
Glyptodon
To be fair the BBB is mostly a collusive organization of businesses who pay
dues to whitewash their problems while pretending to be objective.

If you want a laugh look for ratings and reviews on home warranty companies.

------
arjie
When I have to accept surge pricing, I have to jump through hoops. Was this
not always the case? At least currently, people shouldn't accidentally accept
unless they click Accept compulsively.

~~~
gk1
They now require you to type in a specified number (the surcharge factor)
before you can even book during surge pricing, so there's no excuse for not
knowing.

------
teslaberry
our entire financialized wall street economy flunks the bbb test as well.

------
teslaberry
our ENTIRE FINANCIALIZED WALL STREET economy flunks the better common sense
bureau test.

