
'Dead Sea Scrolls' at museum turn out to be forgeries - danso
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/museum-of-the-bible-dead-sea-scrolls-forgeries/
======
burlesona
As others have pointed out, the headline is much spicier than the story, which
barely qualifies as news:

> On Friday, independent researchers funded by the Museum of the Bible
> announced that all 16 of the museum’s Dead Sea Scroll fragments are modern
> forgeries that duped outside collectors, the museum’s founder, and some of
> the world’s leading biblical scholars. Officials unveiled the findings at an
> academic conference hosted by the museum.

> “The Museum of the Bible is trying to be as transparent as possible,” says
> CEO Harry Hargrave. “We’re victims—we’re victims of misrepresentation, we’re
> victims of fraud.”

So a museum acquired some pieces it believed to be legitimate, but was
concerned they may not be authentic, so it investigated, discovered the pieces
were fake, and is now informing the world. Sounds like reasonable people who
did the right thing.

~~~
danso
The headline is: _" 'Dead Sea Scrolls' at the Museum of the Bible are all
forgeries"_

Your quoted excerpt says: _" independent researchers funded by the Museum of
the Bible announced that all 16 of the museum’s Dead Sea Scroll fragments are
modern forgeries that duped outside collectors, the museum’s founder, and some
of the world’s leading biblical scholars"_

What is it that you think the headline should say?

~~~
sgift
The headline is fine. Reading it in the spirit of "the museum is defrauding
people and we found out about it" is extremely uncharitable and nitpicky.

~~~
danso
Sure, I guess I automatically interpret the connotation of "forgeries" and a
museum as referring to a museum being the defrauded, since they typically are
either given or acquiring exhibits, and less often are selling/trading them.

------
nardi
Note that this says nothing about the Dead Sea Scrolls in general, which are
absolutely real, and mostly in the custody of the State of Israel:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls)

~~~
joshspankit
I don’t keep up on what apparently seems to be issues with the museum, but
_this_ was what drew my eye: if _all_ dead sea scrolls were forgeries that
would shake the foundation of [Abrahamic] theology.

~~~
analog31
I doubt it. The stories would persist even if one set of written copies were
cast into doubt. They have been more or less in their present-day form since
long before the dead sea scrolls were discovered. That span of time and space
has attracted hucksters and forgers for centuries, and theology has carried
on.

~~~
joshspankit
No, I think you’re right. After your comment I did some research and I had
grossly overestimated the importance of the dead sea scrolls. I had no idea
the silver scrolls existed until a couple hours ago.

------
jonstaab
Interesting, but over-sensationalized. To quote the article, "Even before the
new report, some scholars believed that most to all of the post-2002 fragments
were modern fakes."

The headline uses the word "all", but is talking about 0.0002 of the dead sea
scrolls. "at the Museum of the Bible" is a bigger qualification that it
initially appears.

~~~
flattone
'all' of the ones at the museum is a correct statement isn't it?

~~~
jonstaab
Technically correct, but irresponsible

------
duxup
There was a good NOVA (or maybe Secrets of the Dead) episode on PBS that noted
how there were a bunch of supposed dead sea scroll fragments that came onto
the market that in many cases ... found buyers who just happened to be
interested in the the text that were on the fragments.

The market of private dealers working with secret sellers and buyers is very
opaque and the middle men seem to pride themselves on secrecy more than
authenticity and seem a lot like scam artists of their own.

~~~
throwaway894345
Yeah, I saw this. They were specifically talking to experts at the Museum of
the Bible. Good episode indeed.

------
James_Henry
As several people quoted in the article mention, it is wonderful to see a
museum being so upfront and truthful about their artifacts. It seems to be a
much better situation because of it, especially when compared with something
like the "Jesus' Wife" fragment.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/the-
unb...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/the-unbelievable-
tale-of-jesus-wife/485573/)

~~~
roywiggins
These are the same people who imported looted Iraqi tablets.

[https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/07/05/535698988...](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-
way/2017/07/05/535698988/hobby-lobby-to-forfeit-smuggled-iraqi-antiquities)

~~~
James_Henry
Yep, and this makes me feel more like they actually may have just been really
naive when it came to that case. Naivete is no excuse, of course, for what
happened there.

~~~
lostlogin
They have had this sort of thing happen since before they opened. They claim
to be victims etc each time and it’s many times now.

~~~
James_Henry
Yes, all of this is explained in the article. They've been really open about
it each time. They haven't really been making the _same_ mistakes each time
and they have been working more and more with experts who seem to be running
things very well.

From the article:

'The museum is also reevaluating the provenance of all the material in its
collection, and it is prepared to return any stolen artifacts to their
rightful owners. In 2018, the Museum of the Bible determined that a manuscript
in its collection sold several times beforehand had in fact been stolen from
the University of Athens in 1991. The museum promptly returned the artifact to
Greece.

'Christopher Rollston, a specialist on Semitic texts at George Washington
University in Washington, D.C., welcomes the effort to set things right. “The
Museum of the Bible did some really bad things eight to 10 years ago, and they
were rightly criticized severely,” he says. “I believe that they’ve made a
number of attempts in recent years to right the ship.'

~~~
lostlogin
Saying “8 to ten years ago” in 2018 seems to be suggesting that this is an
historic issue ending in 2008-2010 that has been fixed. The latest public
story is of items of dubiously origin from Oxford over some years up to 2015,
and the saga has been playing out publicly for some time. This isn’t something
that happened in the distant past as that last quote makes out. What about the
Oxford story is ‘open’? The story mentions investigations from Indian, US, UK,
Egyptian and Iraqi authorities. That’s quite a list.

[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/16/mystery-
deepens-...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/16/mystery-deepens-
oxford-academic-accused-illegally-selling-bible/)

[https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/world/europe/oxford-
profe...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/16/world/europe/oxford-professor-
bible-hobby-lobby.html)

------
baldfat
The Dead Sea Scrolls in Israel are real. The ones in one museum in America
were forges.

~~~
vackosar
Why do you think that?

~~~
waynecochran
No one doubts the authenticity of the scrolls in the Shrine of the Book in
Israel. They have undergone detailed radiocarbon and paleographic dating.

------
coliveira
There is a cottage industry in the world of archeology where people find
things and then pretend they're related to biblical stories. Even otherwise
honest archeologists play this game, since saying that "this is a building
from the time of Solomon" has a very different perceived meaning than saying
"this is a structure built by unknown people living 2600 years ago".

------
marklacey
I’m reminded of this:

[https://news.artnet.com/art-world/mexican-museums-
artifacts-...](https://news.artnet.com/art-world/mexican-museums-artifacts-
mostly-fake-1016198)

> The report found that only 83 of 2,000—or just over four percent—of the
> museum's pre-Columbian artifacts could be authenticated.

------
atombender
When the Museum of the Bible, which is funded by Hobby Lobby, was created,
they went on a huge, decade-long spending spree, buying up Christian artifacts
all over the world. This created so much increased demand that sellers
worldwide jacked up their prices, and it also created an opportunity for
forgeries and outright theft. The Guardian has a fascinating article about it
that focuses on Dirk Obbink, an American papyrus scholar at Oxford University
who seems to have been selling papyrus fragments from the collection he was
supposed to be cataloguing.

[1] [https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jan/09/a-scandal-in-
ox...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jan/09/a-scandal-in-oxford-the-
curious-case-of-the-stolen-gospel)

------
claudeganon
I want to know the entire story of how they were forged. Artistic forgeries
are among the most interesting and elegant crimes.

Eric Hebborn is a brilliant example:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hebborn](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hebborn)

~~~
vilts
Book called Numismatic Forgery is absolutely brilliant. Talks about how
different coins can be forged depending on era, how making technique should
match the original coin (ancient coin dies were hand engraved, so should the
modern forgery). Some coin forgeries are made from remelted coins of same era
but of lesser value, so that metal would match etc.

------
jessaustin
_At the time, the family was embarking on an ambitious new project: the Museum
of the Bible, which opened in Washington DC in 2017... Items for the Green
collection were bought by Hobby Lobby, then donated to the museum, bringing a
substantial tax write-off._

These rich people, they really are all the same.

------
andris9
Obviously these must be fake as SEELE hoarded all the real dead sea scrolls
for the human instrumentality project

~~~
Vesuvium
And they wouldn't want to know what's really on them as well

------
29athrowaway
For some reason, god does not seem to like written history or reliable
historic accounts.

As soon as writing is introduced in a culture, all the fantastic miracles and
revelations stop, or become much more moderate.

Somehow you go from gigantic columns of fire descending from the sky, to
simple healing miracles that can be faked and are faked routinely in modern
times as well. A magician trick could qualify as a miracle in biblical times.

No more prophets either. Before, prophets appeared every few generations. But
now, it has been thousands of years since the last prophet appeared.

Some of the more cryptic stuff can also be explained: hallucinations. There
were no people in ancient times to diagnose disorders like schizophrenia and
drug use was not punishable by law. And even if they decided to punish drug
use they did not have the means to identify illicit substances.

All that, plus contradictions with science, makes me think these scriptures
are simply a collection of folkloric legends.

This does not prove a god does not exist.

~~~
tsegratis
Having seen incredible miracles, aswell as even surprizing prophecies come
true multiple times...

Which includes things falling from the sky -- at the exact time of praying for
them

For instance seeing a refugee camp catch fire, and so prayed for rain in the
desert, etc, etc

\-- Which gives me at least, hope for a different conclusion :)

Edit: no comment on the Hobby Lobby, I don't know anything particular about
them

~~~
29athrowaway
You are free to believe whatever you want, or participate of your culture as
much as you want.

But I strongly suggest you to document these miracles as you presence them to
help others support your views.

~~~
tsegratis
Thanks. Sure!

Just thinking of some modern writing inline with what the previous poster
mentioned, such as:

[http://sirisofcalifornia.com/168833-books-jackie-
pullinger.h...](http://sirisofcalifornia.com/168833-books-jackie-
pullinger.html) (epub/pdf/txt)

Note that I've met that person, and been to those places. They take heroin
addicts and convicts -- about 20 to 30 in one building; they live 24-7
together, without previously knowing each other, for 3 months -- and come off
heroin or other drugs in that time. What was cool was getting to see that, and
see how peacefully they live together, even given their background

Addendum: Loads more, sorry I haven't met these authors tho

[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1022866.Run_Baby_Run](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1022866.Run_Baby_Run)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKLYFYc40Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKLYFYc40Q)
(I like this guy)

~~~
29athrowaway
To me, the miracles I care about are not unusual and paranormal phenomenons,
but simply what is around us: life.

Life is a miracle of nature.

------
legitster
I am curious how they passed so many experts. Surely the scrolls themselves
were carbon dated - does that mean the forgers got actually period correct
parchment and ink?

~~~
computerex
The article states:

> In a report spanning more than 200 pages, a team of researchers led by art
> fraud investigator Colette Loll found that while the pieces are probably
> made of ancient leather, they were inked in modern times and modified to
> resemble real Dead Sea Scrolls.

------
jessaustin
Editing "of the Bible" out of the original headline makes this HN post
clickbait.

------
trav4225
Ran into the "paywall", but yeah, sadly, forgery has grown into a very large
problem in the archaeological world. Lots of debate and controversy over how
best to address it. We can't simply disregard all unprovenanced finds, as some
seem to propose. Many of the most significant archaeological discoveries ever
made are unprovenanced.

~~~
empath75
This museum in particular seems especially prone to buying stolen or faked
items, though.

~~~
trav4225
Makes sense. Private/smaller collectors are probably much more likely to end
up with fake items. Having said that, large, institutional museums do end up
with fake items occasionally as well, sometimes displaying them for years
before determining that they are fakes and removing them.

~~~
dredmorbius
Nobody's easier to fool than true believers.

