
Ask YC: Dealing with a major event like death? - lyime
I am a senior in College and studying for finals right now.<p>On thursday(6/5) I returned back to my apartment in the evening and found my roommate dead in his room. The reason for death is still unknown but it is most likely due to an accidental overdose. He had been diagnosed with chronic fatigued. It has been a hard few days since then.<p>I have also been working on my startup/side project in the mean time and have milestones to finish.<p>Has any of you been in this position? It has been emotionally tough for me and I am trying to stay strong and keep my mind focused.<p>EDIT: Thank you YC for all your support. This community means a lot to me.
======
kyro
I'd hate to give you advice that I know won't work, because I've received the
same in the past. I can only tell you what I've learned from my experience.

Last year, as finals were approaching, I would drive up north every weekend to
see my grandpa in the hospital. He was suffering from a bad case of kidney
failure. It was an immensely stressful time of my life, ultimately ending in
him passing away the weekend before finals. We were extremely close. After
hearing the news, attending the funeral, etc., I realized I hadn't cried much,
and thought that was weird. I was bottling up my emotions thinking that is was
the 'manly' way of coping. What happened was that I had bottled up so much
emotion, that the bottle couldn't contain any more, and every so often the
bottle started to leak emotions, and I found myself in periodic ruts of
depression. So the lesson for me was to just mourn.

So, just mourn. Of course, realize that you have responsibilities and goals
that need attention, but if taking time off will help you cope, then so be it.
Face the situation and don't try to run around it, because it will catch up
with you.

My condolences.

------
mechanical_fish
My condolences. That must be very, very tough.

Many colleges have counseling services and I'd advise you to seek them out
ASAP. They can help you. Among the _least_ important of the things they can do
is help you try and get some extensions on your finals so that you don't have
to concentrate on some stupid book less than a week after this terrible shock.

If your college can't help I'd still advise you to see a counselor. As someone
who is married to a counselor, I assure you that they have skills that I will
never match, especially over the freaking _Internet_. I do love the web, but
sometimes it really is a lousy substitute for a face-to-face conversation with
a human being.

I will confine myself to this advice: Your finals are unimportant, and your
"milestones" an order of magnitude less important than that. Your well-being
is important. Give yourself permission to mourn. You need to do it --
_everyone_ needs to do it -- and it's unreasonable to expect it to be
_possible_ to shunt it off to the side and focus on work. And, in general, the
people around you will understand this. The world will not come to an end if
you take some time for yourself.

[Composed before I read kyro's post, which is precisely on point.]

------
ghiotion
I watched a friend of mine slowly die of AIDS over a number of years. I was in
the room at the Hospice when he actually died.

I drank to deal with it.

My wife's 18 year old brother died of a stroke in his sleep. He was an adopted
kid who's biological mother was a cocaine addict.

She wrote a book about him.

I ended up with alcohol problems and she is close to getting a book deal. I'd
say her approach was the superior one.

~~~
andreyf
I'm not sure what the best way to put this is without sounding insensitive,
but death of a loved one, although tragic, can be an opportunity for a
sobering-up unlike any other. lyime, maybe this is a good time to re-consider
the fundamentals in life, take some time to think about what you want and
where you are going?

~~~
lyime
When you say re-consider the fundamentals of life what exactly are you
referring to? What should I think about, sorry just trying to understand what
you are saying.

~~~
andreyf
No problem, it's hard not to be vague... I'm not sure how close you were to
your roomie (I've been close to most of mine), but I imagine I'd take time to
reconsider my friendships, my ambitions, goals, etc. Is your startup really
all that important right now, or can it wait a couple of years? What do you
want to do now that you're graduating - would you be happier doing something
else (academia, traveling, volunteering, teaching)? Should you get a puppy? Or
a new haircut? Write an emacs extension? Read that book you've been meaning to
(or one you haven't)?

I've been very fortunate not to have lost loved ones so unexpectedly as you
just did, but I find letting my mind wander in times of such stress is the
best way of coping with loss.

On the other hand, this probably varies by personality, so consulting a
professional (shrink, priest, rabbi, etc) is probably your best bet.

~~~
lyime
Thanks for the reply. My roommate was close to me otherwise I wouldn't have
posted this on YC. I think I am going to seek professional counseling as many
of you have recommended. In terms of reconsidering things... I have always put
my relationships with friends/family in front of everything else. I believe
that people are more important then anything else and so I give me best in
that respect. Although I find my self happy when I am doing what I enjoy the
most. For me it is technology, it is learning and it is applying. This is why
I am here; being part of this community.

~~~
andreyf
_I think I am going to seek professional counseling as many of you have
recommended._

Great idea. Just don't go to anyone who can prescribe you pills.

 _For me it is technology, it is learning and it is applying._

Well put. But here is what keeps me up at night: as the tiny fraction of
humanity's population lucky enough to be born in the right place at the right
time, we have more ways of "applying ourselves" than the vast majority of
people ever born has. How do we figure out what the best way of applying
ourselves is? Is it grad school, or startups? If it's teaching inner city high
school, why not rural India?

~~~
rms
>How do we figure out what the best way of applying ourselves is?

if we could figure that out and everyone figured it out and applied themselves
we'd hit utopia overnight.

~~~
andreyf
Utopia? Oh, no pressure, then... :-P

------
msg
You don't deal with death. It deals with you.

In a short span when I was younger, a friend killed himself, my great
grandmother died at 99 years 11 months of age, an acquaintance died in a car
accident, and an old friend's brother died in a freak golf accident from a
brain aneurysm.

It's not an exaggeration to say it all changed my life permanently. My advice
is to let it. Don't go stoic and pretend it is something that happens every
day. There is a quote by Camus that gives you a sense of the solemnity and the
terror of the thing: "Don't wait for the Last Judgment; it happens every day."

This one may not be for everyone, but John Donne wrote some words about death
that I have found useful at these times.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent,
a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less,
as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of
thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in
mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls
for thee."

<http://www.online-literature.com/donne/409/>

Those words are not just about your friend... they're about you. Death is
deeper than cells and physics. Be involved in mankind. Don't be an island.
Lean on your friends and family.

And take time to process things. Life can wait.

------
edw519
"This community means a lot to me."

And you mean a lot to this community. You are not alone.

My condolences for your loss.

I have been in this position several times, so I'll share my thoughts, which
may or may not help. That's the biggest thing: everybody's different.

In my experience, there's not a whole lot of healing that happens. Time does
not heal. Time "eases". So you have to let that happen organically. Postpone
your finals. Put your startup on hold. It's OK. (OTOH, some people need
something to do but that's not me.)

Get another room. You shouldn't have to relive that day every time you go
home.

Be supportive of your roommate's family; they need you now. Do whatever you
can to help them .

Get counseling. You don't need Dr. Phil or Oprah. Just a stranger with some
credentials who knows when to listen and when to shut up. You'll probably want
to talk, so you'll need a good listener who'll know just what to say to help
you along your path. I have found group sessions especially helpful; it was
always comforting to know that others were going through (almost) the same
thing.

Most of all, let things happen as they do. Some of us find comfort sooner than
others. Don't be surprised by how you react; you just don't know.

All any of us ever gets is x days. Although your life will never be the same,
I wish you the best in resuming living your x-n days as soon as you're ready.

(If you find help from books, an excellent resource is "When Bad Things Happen
to Good People" by Harold Kushner.)

------
mattmaroon
I'm a believer in grief counseling. Instead of asking a bunch of hackers who
can at best somewhat relate due to something somewhat similar, go ask a
professional trained to help you in this sort of situation.

~~~
bootload
_"... A professional will know how to sort out those different feelings and
process them. It would be hard to do that on your own. ..."_

I'd hesitate to advise someone to be debriefed by a professional. For all
their training, empathy, my thoughts & feelings are my own. Not to be
dissected, diagnosed and cataloged. A diagnosed "cure" coming from a pill.

When I was a bit younger than most of you blokes, I organised and executed a
medical emergency extraction. The young lad later died from severe wounds.
With hind sight I'd would have done 2 things

\- postpone my studies

\- repeat the story to as many people as I can tell

The first point recognises you are likely to be in shock with all the
associated symptoms - numbness, forgetfulness, irritability, inability to
concentrate. The second point is a pretty good antidote for PSTD and I
practice it when I get the occasion. A chat to a group of sympathetic mates
down the pub over a pint, is going to more than turning a tragic event into a
medical event.

So put the startup plan on hold. Do something different. You will gain
perspective over time. Look out for trigger events. It can give you
flashbacks. I started to get them years after and had to use different
techniques and put to rest ghosts of the past.

~~~
LPTS
"I'd hesitate to advise someone to be debriefed by a professional. For all
their training, empathy, my thoughts & feelings are my own. Not to be
dissected, diagnosed and cataloged."

That's an archaic attitude towards psychology.

A trained psychological professional, will, for example, differentiate between
their own experiences and those of their client, while the people on here will
tell their own stories as if their stories have relevance on how this guy
should proceed. (That can be healthy, too, but it's not a substitute for a
primary relationship with a person trained at recognizing the places
transference operates).

What you shouldn't do is take any advice on here. That would be like getting
programming advice from a psychologist. I've done a couple years of work with
people on hospice, and have done a little with suicide prevention stuff. So
I'm aware that these professionals should be respected and used, and I'm also
aware how pathetically easy it is to get duped by transference during these
situations involving grief.

Get real help.

~~~
bootload
_"... That's an archaic attitude towards psychology ... Get real help ..."_

Archaic but effective. I imagine my repressed Anglo-Celtic ancestry where
death & grieving was followed with a "wet-wake" ~
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_>(ceremony) I imagine served them well.
Tragic as it is death is also a part of life. While groups of like kin may be
devoid of the latest medical advancements they do have advantage of common
sense. There is quite a magnitude of difference b/w grief and mental illness
quite visible to people you know well.

 _"... What you shouldn't do is take any advice on here. That would be like
getting programming advice from a psychologist. I've done a couple years of
work with people on hospice, and have done a little with suicide prevention
stuff ..."_

By your own admission I wouldn't take yours either. But I do see your point.

~~~
LPTS
You are presenting a false dichotomy. A professional is not going to stop you
from grieving in whatever modality feels right to you, while helping you
identify emotions, process them, and dealing with what unique challenges come
up.

You can have both. Get the professional help.

------
eyudkowsky
You know, I seriously, seriously think that transhumanists have an easier time
dealing with death. We're not all conflicted about death. We have no concept
that we ought to be bottling up the anger. We don't think we ought to be
"coming to terms" with death. Making peace with death is not a goal. Death is
horrible and we have to stop it.

There, that's it, you're done. That's the resolution.

<http://yudkowsky.net/yehuda.html>

(my little brother, he was 19)

~~~
rw
That is a spectacular essay. Thanks for the link. I have questions about your
take on transhumanism, but I don't want to derail this thread. Email?

~~~
Jesin
Do we really need to worry that much about derailing threads when we have
nested replies?

------
rokhayakebe
Lyime,

I am really sorry for your loss. I had a similar experience. I worked at a
spot a few years ago. I had one particular guy stick his neck out for me and
help me a lot. We worked side by side and he would drive me home almost every
day after work.

I would never forget. I was sick on Tuesday and he was very caring and asked
me several time if I needed anything. The next morning I came to work and
found he died. He collapsed at home and when they got him to the hospital they
found he was at the final state of diabetes and he never knew it.

I was shocked and did not cry right away. I was extremely hurt and I felt
better when I stop trying to be tough and cried when I wanted to.

Acceptance will help you. Think of the good moments you had and cry about it
as well. It will be good.

I wish you the best and always remember "what does not kill, makes one
stronger".

------
johns
Sorry for your loss. I'd suggest taking a short break from the startup to
focus on finals and getting through this tough time. You'll know when you're
ready to get back at it.

~~~
icky
Finals can also be put off. The school will certainly have a leave of absence
program.

------
pavelludiq
When my mother died about 6 months ago it was hard, but I was surprised at how
fast i could put my self together and concentrate on my real dreams. I started
to learn programming for seriously(before that it was just some curiosity)
Started orienting myself and stopped wasting time, because I realised i have
no time to lose. You have to be great and have to work hard at your goals. I
still wish my mother's guidance and support were here, but i manage pretty
well on my own. In the morning when my aunt came to tell me she said "you are
a philosopher,you understand, life sometimes sucks" It takes some
philosophical patience and understanding to deal with a tragedy, and its
always hard. Hope you all take care of yourselfs and not do stupid things,
just try to understand your situation and take time to heal if its needed. I
needed only a week before i started school again and its nice to talk to
people. If i have something as an advice it should be something like "Don't
isolate yourself" I know some hackers are loners by nature(im a pretty extreme
case) but its good to be around people, that's why we gather in times of
tragedy.

------
jfoutz
So, a long time ago, my best friend died. It was really hard. I didn't eat or
talk much. I still go to his grave from time to time. It was a fundamental
change in my life.

Take the time you need. A week of renting old movies or playing video games is
a tiny tiny risk to both your degree and your startup.

I'm not sure what's best for you, but for me, i had to take time to figure out
what it meant that my friend was never coming back. It's hard. Once I came to
grips with that i thought a lot about what really matters.

If it was me, I'd not work on the startup, and just doing enough school to
keep up for a day or three... Spend time thinking through exactly why I was in
school, and why i'm doing a startup. But again, do what's best for you. Maybe
work is just the thing to keep your mind off how tough something like this is.

Call your parents. Talking to my dad was a lot better than my mom.

If you feel like i think you feel, these words won't really mean any thing,
but you have my deepest sympathy. It gets easier... but there are always tough
days.

------
dkokelley
Just 3 weeks ago an Uncle that I was close to died. He wasn't even 50, and he
left a wife not even 40 and two children (my cousins) not even 10 years old.
Just yesterday I got back from the memorial service. Each person is different,
but my advice is to do the following:

A: Do things that need to be done right now, with little emotion. You may
still be in shock and your best bet is to keep your studies up, and do any
necessary work on your startup.

B: Take the time (maybe even up to a week or so) to mourn, and psychologically
"let go" or accept his passing. It will be hard to move forward if you don't
do this and the shock wears off and the reality catches up with you.

C: Get back to life. Memorial services are referred to as "Celebration of
Life" services because it's the time when you've accepted reality, said your
goodbyes, and let go, which allows you to appreciate the time you had with
this person, and then move forward a stronger person.

For the past 3 weeks, I feel like I've been living life 1 day at a time. My
uncle died while I was house sitting for other family that was away on
vacation, and 1 week before finals. Basically, it wasn't a "convenient" time
(though I'd be hard pressed to explain what a convenient time would be). Now
that the memorial service is over and the family has gone back home, I feel
that I can move forward now. I just started a job today, and I'm taking 2
classes over the summer. Letting go has made it easier for me at least to
appreciate my uncle's life and move forward with my own.

My condolences to you.

------
crystalarchives
Although I am fortunate because I can say that nothing like this has ever
happened to me, my sincerest, warmest condolences go out to you and your
roommate's friends and family. I cannot imagine what it must be like. I hope
you find strength and light in a time of darkness.

I wish you the very best of luck on both your last year of college and your
startup; enjoy them as much as possible!

Let us know if you need anything - I am sure I speak on behalf of the YC
community in offering you our heartfelt support and assistance.

------
FiReaNG3L
Take time to deal with the emotional side, the milestones can wait.

~~~
LPTS
I'm not sure I agree.

If your side project is really important to you, and this event derails it
considerably, then you risk your memories of your friend being tainted with
resentment. If it is a matter of a couple days, that is different.

You should process the emotions (by seeing a grief counselor) but you should
be open to deciding to keep with your project so that disappointment over
derailing your project does not morph with grief and other negative emotions
from your friends dying.

~~~
lief79
A startup requires a lot of effort. If he is still excited by the idea and can
work on it, then go for it. If he is finding that he is a different person,
that's fine too. Everybody responds differently.

I know that with the loss of a family member, the general guidelines are not
to make major choices for a year or so. If he is graduating from college, then
that may not an option.

------
wehriam
I'm sorry for your loss.

Some milestones, perhaps self-imposed professional ones, can wait. Others,
like doing well on finals, can't. We all have responsibilities. Prioritize as
best you can.

Now might be a good time to call in some favors from friends, family, and your
school's faculty. Ask your dean and professors what policy is in situations
like this. Talk to your friends. Go to your family.

Part of community is providing aid in difficult times. Don't hesitate to use
the resources available to you.

------
mdolon
I've had a close friend of mine taken in a very bad way this past year, which
also happened to be my senior year of college. Luckily for me, she was not
only my friend but very well known throughout our community and we all came
together to mourn our loss AND celebrate her great accomplishments. I still
think about her often and hope to live by the goodness she represented. I've
gotten to think of the entire event as a blessing in disguise, as our loss has
now brought us together and caused us to reevaluate our goals, principles and
lifestyles.

My sincerest, heartfelt condolences to you for your loss. Spend time with
those who are close to you and remember him, what he stood for, his impact on
you and what you can do to better yourself. I know it must be very hard now
but just know that in time, it will pass. Life will move on and it is our
responsibility to remember those lost and live our lives the best we can.
Surround yourself with your loved ones in tough times, that is probably the
best advice I can give. Good luck on finals.

------
TrevorJ
I'm really sorry that you are going through this, best of luck. My only advice
is to not avoid the tough questions things like this bring up in your mind.
Our culture makes it very easy to go through your whole life without ever
thinking about the "big" questions. Taking the opportunity to do some soul-
searching could bring something positive out of a really horrible situation.

------
midnightmonster
talking with someone (as many have suggested) is great _if you feel like
talking_. A recent study shows what I've long suspected: not everyone benefits
from talking it out, and in fact those who don't want to talk about it and
manage toavoid talking about it do even better long term than those who prefer
to talk and do.

------
gizmo
Try a change of scenery, avoid doing things and places that remind you of your
roommate. Try to study at a different location, maybe the library or a
starbucks. Find a different place to sleep too, crash at friends maybe. Don't
mourn or even think about what happened until you've hit your milestones.
Thinking even a little will open a flood of emotions. Play a game or something
(flash game / mine sweeper / super mario) whenever you need to take a break or
when you lose focus, but don't let your brain go idle. Get more sleep deprived
than usual, so your brain will be a bit less reflective and you will fall
asleep quicker too. Oh, and try to completely avoid news sites and all that
stuff.

At least, this is how I handled it when I didn't have time to mourn. Your
milage may vary. My condolences and I hope you'll make it through this period.

------
kamme
First let me say I'm sorry for your loss.

The only advice I can give you is talk about it with someone, it doesn't have
to be a counselor or something, just a good friend. Also don't think that it
does nothing to you anymore in a couple of weeks, it stays hard to cope with
but it will get better. Best of luck!

~~~
lief79
Sorry for your loss too.

It's doesn't have to be a counselor, but it can be easier to deal with a
professional. I wish I had, because in my situation, I didn't have the right
friendships to be able to handle this.

So share with friends. If you have friends that can get you through this,
treasure them. Friendships can be a tender thing, and there aren't many people
that can handle this easily, let alone with the stress of finals. With this in
mind, make it clear to them that they shouldn't feel obligated to be your
support. This should help avoid misplaced guilt that they couldn't do more, as
well as help you avoid worries about being a burden. Most people have no idea
on how to deal with something like this, and even if they do, everyone
responds differently.

------
andreyf
This is definitely a time to put everything on hold and think about life for a
bit.

School, jobs, and startup can wait - talk to a dean about your finals, you can
take them at the end of the summer. As far as jobs, write "Expected
graduation: Summer 2008", on your resume and get a letter from your school
explaining there are extraordinary circumstances that prevented you from
taking your finals.

Spend time in places without distractions (mountain, park, beach?) and let
your mind wander for awhile - think about life, about what your roommate's
passing means in respect to your life. When you feel ready to get back, you'll
be more focused than before.

Death of a close one is always a sobering experience - take some time to take
it in fully before getting on with things.

All the best, practically and emotionally, Andrey

------
lurkage
Most colleges would let you postpone finals after something like this, so you
should be able to remove at least that cause of stress, if you want to. On the
other hand, you may want to get them over with.

I recommend going somewhere far away for at least a week or so, to reboot your
brain.

------
DanielBMarkham
At the risk of sounding like a Chinese Fortune Cookie: be where you are.

I've been through various major changes like this while working hard
technology problems. Sometimes I tried to put my head into the computer and it
just didn't work. Other times it was the best thing to do.

Take time and make yourself grieve. If you need a little alcohol, or a sad
movie, or some quiet time in a park -- do whatever it takes to make sure you
have given yourself permission to cry.

Be in that grief and live it. I almost want to say "enjoy" it, because
grieving is a process of remembrance and release.

Then get back to work. If you haven't grieved enough (you find yourself still
obsesses with thinking of your friend) then your head and you heart are in
different places.

Be where you are. Live in that world fully.

------
joemunculus
This spring I defended my PhD. The very next day I had to fly home to see my
cousin, who I grew up with, one last time. She had cancer and died about 5
days later. I am very sad that she is gone, but extremely happy that the
timing of events in my life happened such that I was able to get home one last
time to see and talk with her before she passed. So, hopefully you will get an
explanation for cause of death, but either way maybe you can try and remember
a pleasant event with your roommate and use that as a source of comfort. We
can't always explain events in life, but we definitely have the power to
remember and enjoy what has happened.

------
kn0thing
I'm sorry to hear that, lyime.

The reality is that coping with such an event is different for everyone.

You owe it to yourself to keep your best interests in mind right now. And if
that means putting off your startup and getting finals extensions, then you
absolutely should.

------
visitor4rmindia
My condolences.

I went through the death of my brother many years ago and it was hard. Looking
back, I did some stupid things and some good things. From my experience these
may help you:

* Acknowledge your emotion. Cry when you need to. * Talk. The face-to-face conversations I had with my friends were truly life-saving. Even the times they didn't say anything. * Talking a stranger on a bus journey also helped in my case. There was something about it that also helped. * Spend some time alone in a place that you love. * Writing also helped a lot. I wrote a lot. Most of it without really thinking - just pages and pages of anything and everything. It was a great release.

Take care.

------
jdavid
dealing with death is usually very difficult when you do not know how it sits
with you, and how it sits with your world view (religion, faith, family,
geography, and your expectations). i think that mourning is just a part of the
process to find out what you really believe in, its a hard test that life
throws our way. just know that you can pass it and look forward to what is
next. i find comfort in knowing that death is just a part of life, like birth
is too. i find comfort in knowing that God has a plan for all of us, and that
everything is a part of that plan.

------
mynameishere
I would not let someone else's freak accident derail you, or allow yourself to
think that your physical proximity to it is particularly meaningful. Absolve
yourself of any responsibility and move on.

------
urlwolf
My condolences.

I think one there arae very few unhackable things in life. Unfortunately,
feelings are one of them. So I'd join the recommendation posted above: try to
get professional help.

------
rw
In the last year, two very good friends of mine lost fathers to suicide. One
friend chose to seek emotional shelter in his family and friends, and he let
the necessary depression and mourning take over his life for about a year,
while he was in a safe place.

The other became an alcoholic and a drug dealer.

Honor your friend and his memory, by putting him first now, so that later in
life, you will know that you have made your peace.

------
kravis
1) Keep your friends and relatives close to you 2) Amuse yourself - TV,
Movies, books, chat, etc. 3) Exercise - Jogging, Basketball, etc. 4) Move on
and accept that sometimes things happen...

------
donw
May your friend rest in peace, and may you find some source of comfort and
solace.

I wish I had some properly good advice, but I'm woefully behind on my project
for a very similar reason.

------
Neoryder
Grieve, Don't try to escape the pain!

------
jrockway
No amount of grieving is going to bring anyone back from the dead, so try to
move on with your life.

~~~
gruseom
_No amount of grieving is going to bring anyone back from the dead_

That's not the purpose of grieving. Surely that's obvious? It seems to me its
purpose is precisely _to_ move on with one's life. Disconnecting from your
feelings is not a very effective strategy in the long run.

