

More Nootropics: Racetams and Glycinergics - aaxe
http://examine.com/blog/more-nootropics-racetams-and-glycinergics/

======
samwilliams
> The glycerinergics are those molecules that can bind to what is known as the
> 'glycine binding site' of a particular subset of stimulatory receptors
> (NMDA), and it seems that by stimulating this binding site the overall
> signalling is increased.

'Glycerinergics' has only one result on Google - this article. Even if we
assume that they mean it in the same way as we talk about GABAergic or
dopaminergic drugs the definition they have stated is fundamentally incorrect.
Glycerinergic drugs would be those that bind to any of the same sites that the
endogenous molecule glycine binds to - not necessarily just NMDAr sites, this
is an over simplification. Further more, to say that NMDA receptors are
inherently 'stimulatory' is frankly ridiculous. Ligands can be either agonists
or antagonists at a given binding site - examples of non-excitatory NMDAr
binding drugs would be the arylcyclohexamine family (PCP, Ketamine, PCE etc)
and Dizocilpine (MK-801). Finally, 'overall signalling is increased' is almost
laughable. 'Signalling' through which neurotransmitters? In what manner? How
is 'overall' measured?

While I may not have an absolutely perfect understanding of
psychopharmacology, I do know enough not to trust this article - particularly
when it is taking about drugs with very little history of human use.

If you are considering using the drugs in this article, it might be advisable
to question why. Just because a compound is new, does not mean it is going to
be better or the effects more desirable than it's predecessor(s). Of course it
is possible that it could be, but it seems likely that in reality you are
simply exposing yourself to unnecessary health risks for minimal reward. Would
it really be so bad to use Piracetam for a couple of years while the phenyl
derivative's action in humans is not well documented? Consider your health and
the potential gains carefully and make a rational decision.

~~~
resu_nimda
It looks like "glycerinergic" was a typo for "glycinergic," which has ~100k
results on Google (they also mention "glycincergics" \- the poor copy editing
would support your distrust).

But yeah, I'm not sure what's going on here. I guess it's just an announcement
that they have added some info about these drugs to their database. To be
fair, the article itself isn't really promoting their usage, and the
subheading _does_ describe them as "A large amount of somewhat poorly
researched compounds." Perhaps there is better information on the actual pages
for each substance.

~~~
samwilliams
The spelling mistake would make sense, but I agree that it doesn't inspire
confidence.

The impression I got from the article was the same as yours - they are not
explicitly advocating the use of these drugs, but I don't think they were
doing very much to inform the reader of the potential dangers that using any
very new psychoactive compounds would entail. Perhaps the real fault here is
in the manner that this has been submitted to HN, rather than the article
itself? Personally, I think it would be more appropriate and safer to call the
submission 'Racetams and Glycinergics of the future' or something similar. As
the title currently stands the impression given is that these chemicals are
appropriate for use now, by everyone.

------
pallandt
I see a lot of people here experimenting with racetams.

I caution you to do extensive research on pubmed.gov and at least flip through
a few pharmacology and neuroscience books, if you plan on long term use of
said racetams. Wikipedia as a last resort or to refresh your knowledge.

They all have different properties and on rare occasions, could have
completely opposite effects, depending on the person taking them and their
genetic markup. A lot of them act on the glutamatergic pathways, and/or have
more obscure/newly discovered methods of action.

For evidence, I offer 'Levetiracetam as monotherapy or add-on to valproate in
the treatment of acute mania-a randomized open-label study.' at
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18369598](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18369598)
and conversly, 'Acute psychosis associated with levetiracetam.'
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12875956](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12875956)
or 'Levetiracetam: An Unusual Cause of Delirium.', at
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23782757](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23782757)

Levetiracetam was initially approved for seizure control. I hope you can see
from the above mentioned papers that while it can also help someone 'calm
down', it can bring another unfortunate person into a manic psychotic state.

////

The best way to try a nootropic or a new medication for that matter, is to
wean yourself off any other supplements and only try one at a time. You'll
also need to have a good understanding of the Cytochrome P450, to be able to
avoid enzyme induction or inhibition, if you plan to later on add other
supplements to your regimen.

Especially if you will also be taking Rx medication.

You do not want to unknowingly overdose yourself with something or sabotage
your 'treatment' by accidentally taking a product that happens to induce the
enzyme complex metabolizing one of your other supplements or meds. A
supplement or medication that also acts as an enzyme inducer will reduce the
time spent in your system of the product's who's metabolism is controlled by
said enzyme(s).

///

To sum up, before putting stuff in your body, do your due diligence and be
wary of relying on anecdotal reports of success with said supplements. Results
WILL vary, because every body is unique.

------
easy_rider
There is one really awesome supplement that is often overlooked. (Neuroscience
is one of my main side-interests and apparently I've been living under a rock
in regards to L-Theanine. Well studied, It has a very good safety profile,
with no apparent side-effects even in high dosage. It's the reason why I've
switched from coffee to green tea.

_[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21040626](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21040626)

_[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18641209](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18641209)

_[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18296328](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18296328)

_[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214254](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214254)

_[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16930802](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16930802)

_[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23395732](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23395732)

~~~
com2kid
L-Theanine is amazing stuff, it basically cuts a lot of the side effects away
from caffeine and increases the positive effects of caffeine to boot.

To get useful amounts of it I just take it separately whenever I consume a
caffeinated beverage. 250mg-500mg suffices (technically you can dose it in
relationship to how much caffeine you are dosing, but since there are no side
effects to taking too much l-theanine, I just take 2 and call it good)

~~~
easy_rider
Yeah diminishes the effect of any stimulants for that matter, so people on
adderall and ritalin should be interested in this to battle inevitable events
of insomnia. I usually dose about 200mg starting the day now, then basically
based on the amount of Tea I consume throughout the day (and thus caffeine)
dose about 200-400mg more right after diner along with a brew. But i'm quite
lightweight, and for depression/anxiety higher doses are needed. It improves
your REM sleep, promotes alpha-wave activity and stimulates dopamine
production. Caenorhabditis elegans lived longer on it, and it even helps
cQuring cancer..list goes on.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2774573/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2774573/)

------
tokenadult
In every discussion I have seen of "smart drugs" (nootropics), what is
conspicuously lacking is discussion of the actual smart deeds performed by the
smart drug users. Self-reported n=1 anecdotes have not established a
convincing case that any kind of nootropic actually does anyone any good in
the real world.

(Maybe I'll edit this comment some more below during its editing time window.
Or perhaps this point is so evident that it needs no elaboration.)

~~~
drewblaisdell
There are, however, studies that show that racetams _are not_ harmful. If you
don't believe they work, give them a try for yourself. They work for some and
not for others.

Did you consult a double-blind study of caffeine before drinking your first
cup of coffee? At what point does the plural anecdote at least refute the idea
that racetams are just a placebo?

------
desireco42
Modafinil works great, racetams while they do something, I didn't observe some
effect that would be specifically desirable. It's not that they don't have
effect, just that they seem overhyped.

DMAE for example (if I got letters right), if you take it before sleep, it
gives you vivid dreams, since it was suppose to help with generation of neural
links, then, this would explain effect.

I am still looking and trying to find things that would be helpful without
detrimental effects. I should note that anything like adderal I didn't try and
don't intend to.

------
ramgorur
I have done some experiments with nootropics (namely adderal) as well, but
failed to notice anything. I am a chain smoker, that could be the reason, I am
not sure.

I failed to understand the basics behind this "cognitive enhancer" hype, lets
say these stuff "really" works, then why we don't see those multi-billion
pharmaceutical companies investing on them? If they would really worked, then
I should already find all those pharmacy shops around me teeming with
nootropics (assuming they have negligible side effects), right?

BTW, I am actually from south-east asia, here you can buy almost anything
(except LSD etc.) without prescription, and we have dozens of pharmaceutical
companies outsourcing drugs to the other side of the world. Moreover, if these
companies could really come up with something real, then it could be an
"instant hit" here.

------
najhr999
Anyone use nootropics and want to share their usage/experience?

~~~
sycamore
I take noopept 20mg daily sublingually or orally, and occasionally modafinil.

Modafinil works really well for me (300/400mg keeping me awake and FOCUSED but
not buzzing/twitchy) but worked poorly for my brother (no noticeable effect at
similar dosage).

Since taking noopept I have noticed more of a willingness and now desire to
learn, something which was an issue in my past. It also seems to help me work
for prolonged periods of time without getting burnt out. (anecdotal, could
well be placebo effect but it works for me!) Feel free to ask me anything.

~~~
xanmas
Do you have any recommended places to pick up noopept?

~~~
sycamore
If you are UK based, send me an email and I'll give you a link. Otherwise
check out
[http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/wiki/faq#wiki_where_is_a_...](http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/wiki/faq#wiki_where_is_a_good_place_to_buy.3F)
be sure to read up on it first.

------
andymkdavis92
Accelerator program start engine (powered by Accenture) is backing UCLA
Neuroscientists on the nourishment piece to brain fitness. Full disclosure,
I’m on the team for the summer. Have a look at what we are doing at trubrain
and I’ll bring on Dr. Andrew Hill to answer any Neurofeedback or nootropic
question.

