
Russian startup to release a smartphone with e-ink display on the back [video] - corporalagumbo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/9782115.stm
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diziet
It seems bbc did not link the company's website: <http://www.yotaphone.com/>

I always wondered why a concept like this never made it to a device -- e-ink
displays are pretty incredible with battery life, and my phones usually last
quite a long time without the screen turned on. The specs look quite
compatible to current-generation top end phones, so it'll be interesting to
see this device in action.

I also recall Pixel QI (<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi>) working on a
hybrid e-ink and lcd display, hybrid in the sense that they used current lcd
manufacturing technology to have a display operate in two power modes, with
and without the backlight on, with different resolutions too, but I haven't
seen any of their displays make it to a really main-stream product yet.

~~~
throwmeaway33
"my phones usually last quite a long time without the screen turned on."

It's important to remember that this isn't just because the display is off -
it's also because the device is in a low power state. Try having an app
running with the screen turned off - it also doesn't last too long.

It's be interesting to see what % of the battery usage is due to JUST the
screen. If anyone has any stats, please post!

~~~
hayksaakian
In my experience its usually %50 screen %40 network radio and %10 everything
else

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Tycho
Finally. I've been suggesting this for years. Companies who want to really
compete with apple should be trying radical designs. Tragic lack of tinkering
on the hardware front.

~~~
adventured
I agree with the tragic lack of tinkering, however, Samsung hasn't had to do
anything radical on the design front to print crazy sums of profits
successfully competing with Apple. They did of course have to produce great
products.

~~~
megablast
Samsung produce great products and spend loads of money in advertising (Just
like Apple). You can see the difference with HTC who also produce great
phones, but lack on advertising spending. And they have suffered for it.

~~~
unsigner
To say that Samsung "spends loads of money in advertising, just like Apple" is
a bit stretching the truth, if Horace Dediu's estimations are to be believed:

[http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-
galaxie...](http://www.asymco.com/2012/11/29/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies/)

Samsung seems to spend about an order of magnitude (10x) more on advertising
than Apple.

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Meai
I would love all my displays to be e-ink, meaning: My 24inch displays for
programming, my phones, everything. Android would need to provide an e-ink
mode, but that shouldn't be too hard to do. I honestly don't need that much
animation or color, so I would be more than fine with switching to it
completely. I can still use my old display if I ever really want to do some
multimedia use, but for day to day use e-ink should be perfect.

~~~
JunkDNA
Have you ever tried scrolling with an e-ink display? Maybe the absolute latest
ones are better but using the kindle web browser on my 2 year old kindle is an
unpleasant experience.

~~~
progrock
Just use a pager. I prefer paging to scrolling.

What I'd like is probably something in between. Or one e-ink display and one
'normal'. But the OS would need to be aware that it was dealing with an e-ink
display. You'd need to say goodbye to animations/flashing cursors and mouse
pointers etc.

~~~
jbverschoor
It's called Pixel-QI

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garagemc2
The use cases / problems the device solves as mentioned by the CEO are
multiple in nature. But I'm not sure which will realistically be the one that
gets consumers to buy.

For me a phone with e-ink is amazing because it allows me to read stuff with
hurting my eyes. You can also use it in the sunlight.

What does everyone else think?

~~~
nanidin
I think it's a brilliant idea - as long as the screen is sufficiently
protected. I am on my second Kindle. I'm not particularly rough on gadgets but
I travel a lot and even the second one is starting to show a lot of wear
whereas my iPhone shows almost none.

~~~
diziet
They say they've got some sort of curved gorilla glass protected thing going
on, though I don't understand why they are going for a curved design over a
flat piece.

~~~
jstanley
Vlad touched on this briefly. It seems to be essentially an "affordance" to
encourage the user to put the phone down with the e-ink side facing up.
Putting it down on the side that makes it wobble feels less natural than
putting it flat-side down.

~~~
diziet
Good point, I didn't seem to catch on it. It seems like an interesting design
choice, I seem to always place my venerable droid-x with the screen facing
down. Hopefully it is still quite easy to use the phone on a flat surface with
the lcd screen facing up.

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heyitsnick
Seems inspired to Popslate, who's crowd-sourced fundraising is still going on
on Indiegogo: <http://www.indiegogo.com/popslate>

It reached its target to bring an iPhone 5 case with eink on the back; it
received pretty wide coverage (and raised eyebrows) back in late November.

~~~
legutierr
In the interview the gentleman says that they have been working in it for two
years, and they handle a working phone. I don't know what the lead time is to
manufacture a new phone, but the timing indicates to me that they were
conceived of independently.

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ovidiu
Maybe it would also be interesting to have phones with e-ink displays on its
sides, for things such as notifications, weather conditions and phone status.

~~~
stcredzero
The form factor that makes the most sense for notifications is a watch. It's a
lot easier to look at a watch than it is to dig out a cell phone.

~~~
swah
A little watch that I could program with Lua to do pub/sub to my phone events
would be great.

~~~
alttab
Not great conversation for a dinner party, but I'd buy one for $100.

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lhnz
I wonder what code would look like on an e-ink display. I would like to code
outside in the sun.

~~~
rexreed
You might want to check out the Kindle hacks that turn e-ink kindles into
displays / terminals:

[1] <http://www.turnkeylinux.org/blog/kindle-root>

[2] <http://tinyapps.org/docs/e-ink-monitor.html>

[3] <http://www.ponnuki.net/2012/09/kindleberry-pi>

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DanBC
I'd be happy with something small (like the HTC Wildfire S) with just an e-ink
screen. Or as the e-ink screen as primary with a tiny OLED for alerts.

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matthiasb
What content would you like to see on your phone/tablet e-Ink backscreen?

The video shows a weather app as an example. It implies we would leave our
phone the e-Ink screen up. I find it interesting because it changes the way we
are using our devices today.

~~~
netcan
Most of what I do on a phone could be done with e-ink.

Calling/skype, various messaging apps, podcasts, music, weather, bus app,
email, calendar, chess clock. There are some things that wouldn't work (games,
video). These are fairly low priority for me. Some things that might sorta
work, especially if they were re-made for e-ink (eg maps/navigation apps).
These I want on my phone.

An e-ink phone might not be a bad idea if it could carry other advantages too.
A $200 smartphone with 3 day batteries that runs 80% of apps might be
appealing to a lot of people.

~~~
stcredzero
A $50 smartphone with e-ink and 7 day batteries might take emerging markets by
storm.

~~~
PuercoPop
Well there is a phone with e-ink and 7 day batteries. It's called Motofone F3.

It didn't had much success in Perú. (although I'm an avid fan an ex-user of
it)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone>

~~~
stcredzero
Good information, but this seems to be more of a feature phone with good
battery life than a smartphone optimized for the particular use cases of the
emerging markets.

Why do you think it hasn't cautious on in Peru. What would catch on there?

~~~
PuercoPop
Well it was basically because it looked 'ugly' with fonts like an old
calculator.

The phone had 3 mayor design issues. At least from my POV. First, I couldn't
write . in in text messages. I had , @ even £ but alas, no .! Then there was
the issue that all sound went increscendo, thing is the message notification
was to short for the sound to reach an audible level. And last, as the e-ink
only consumes power to paint the screen if you manage to run out of battery
You wouldn't realize immediately as the screen was still showing what it
showed before running out of power.

I think what would catch is something cheap that seems pretty/expensive.

~~~
stcredzero
My point exactly. An android handset optimized for time between charges would
kill it. The other problems you mentioned are quite fixable.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5017643>

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matthiasb
I would love to have one of those! Right now, on the back of my phone, I have
a camera and a quick stand; the rest is a waste of space.

~~~
froo
Have you seen the popSLATE ?

<http://www.popslate.com/>

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marcosdumay
Before I proclaim that I'd love this I only have one question. How much will
it cost?

~~~
leyfa
In the engadget video [1], they claim it will be priced as a top end android
phone.

[1] <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnO0p5XAl9Y>

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mikecane
There are YouTube videos:
<http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yotaphone>

Not excited by this.

~~~
alttab
I'm more excited because its different and bold. If this doesn't excite you at
all, what are you waiting for?

~~~
mikecane
eBooks are my thing. eInk stopped being exciting quite a while ago.

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silasb
I like it, but I want the screens to be stacked. When you turn of the LCD
screen I would like to then be able to view the e-ink display.

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chinmoy
This is simply brilliant!I would be buying this for sure when it comes out.

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akos
The ad on the video is quite annoying!

