
Donald Trump impeached for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress - rahuldottech
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/18/us/politics/trump-impeachment-vote.html
======
IGotThroughIt
Dems have shot themselves in the foot with this one. This whole process lacks
credibility and voters will punish them as they did in the UK. Politicians
need to start being in touch with what voters want.

Right now a lot of time is being wasted on nonsense whereas it could have been
used for more productive endeavors. What a charade. What a sham.

~~~
cmurf
Seems unlikely. In 2018 Democrats ran on the promise of holding Trump
accountable, quite a few new seats obtained on the promise of impeachment. The
House represents the people. The Senate represents land. The House should be
partisan. That's their job. And why they're up for election every two years.

The constitution requires senators to take an oath when sitting for
impeachments. That oath includes one of impartiality. Two senators, including
the majority leader, have announced they are expressly not impartial. The
majority leader said they are working in total coordination with the defense's
lawyers. And that it would be mutual assured destruction to have witnesses.

A trial without witnesses, or documents, before a body on oath of
impartiality, triers of law and fact.

A sham you say?

~~~
chatmasta
The major difference between midterms and election (whether 2016 or 2020) is
that Trump himself wasn’t on the ballot to drive turnout. In fact, it’s not
unusual at all for midterms to swing away from the incumbent’s party, like
they did in 2018.

I don’t want to get too much into political speculation on HN, but Trump is a
big turnout driver due to the enthusiasm of his base. If the democratic
nominee comes from the current candidates, and something crazy doesn’t happen
vis a vis a brokered convention or economic recession, I’d say Trump will
probably be re-elected. It will be due primarily to that enthusiasm, but also
to independents who may not like the guy, but are happy with the economy and
scared of/angry at the Democratic Party.

According to most oddsmakers, Trump is currently the favorite to win. Granted
that may change when the Democrats select a candidate.

------
rahuldottech
> Okay for everyone wondering what impeachment is vs a removal of office.

> Impeachment is like charging you with a crime. So the House of
> Representatives charged Trump with abuse of power & obstruction of congress.

>Removal of office comes about when the House of Representatives vote by a
majority to impeach on each charge (known as an Article of Impeachment), that
goes to the Senate, and then by a 2/3 majority (67 Senators) in the Senate to
vote to convict, and only then is the President is finally removed from
office.

> In other words, impeachment is like being charged by the DA for
> manslaughter, removal of office is when the jury decides you're guilty of
> manslaughter. The DA is the House, and the jury is the Senate in this
> analogy.

~~~
cmurf
Conviction requires 2/3rds of the senators present. Removal from office is a
possible punishment, as is disqualification to hold office. Either of those
requires a simple majority vote, following conviction.

For impeachments, the Senate is a court, they aren't jurors, but triers of law
and fact, per Rehnquist.

[http://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-
sen...](http://theconversation.com/when-a-chief-justice-reminded-senators-in-
an-impeachment-trial-that-they-were-not-jurors-128984)

~~~
JDiculous
Since the Senate has a Republican majority and every single Republican voted
against impeachment, does this mean that removal from office is basically not
happening?

~~~
cmurf
That's the conventional wisdom. But Senators aren't as partisan. They thrive
on plausible deniability. They're unlikely to overrule Roberts, who will
preside, rule on motions, witnesses, subpoenas. Even one or two defectors can
turn it into a serious trial. There are witnesses and materials being
suppressed, if those are subpoenaed, are they significant and relevant? Do
they get the public more involved? What if those subpoenas are refused by the
president, as he is with House subpoenas? Who blinks? But we've never seen a
contentious Senate impeachment trial.

The conventional wisdom, is really speculation. It's not certain. Anyone who
claims to know what will happen, doesn't know anything. The more Republican
senators insist this is pointless because the outcome is certain, the more it
tells me how scared they are about having to make a decision. If they convict,
decent chance they get primaried. If they aquit, they risk losing their
general election. And they have some sense history books yet to be written are
watching.

The Senate can't do anything until the articles are delivered by the House.
And right now it looks like that may not happen immediately. That's incredibly
unusual. The House wants some assurances of witnesses and documents being
produced. They could sit on the articles and string this out for days. Or
months.

