
IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm Running on Haiku - return_0e
https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/java-python-ide-packages/8101
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captainbland
That's a really impressive achievement I think, those are complex applications
running on complex stacks. It's certainly a big step in the direction of
making Haiku a system that a developer could plausibly run for the development
of cross-platform applications. This coupled with the Libre Office port last
year means there's a pretty strong selection of applications for it cropping
up.

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Apocryphon
I wonder if Valve has hackathons and if the Proton guys want a new challenge.

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joshumax
I worked at CodeWeavers during the development of Proton, and one of the
biggest hurdles for getting Wine (and therefore Proton) running on Haiku is
the memory layout of Haiku[1] and subsequent failures of mmap(). I have a
Haiku port that runs basic applications out-of-tree, but many Win32 programs
crash on Haiku still.

1: [https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku](https://wiki.winehq.org/Haiku)

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mike_hearn
You could just bypass the preloader completely. It exists only to work around
the Linux ASLR implementation which would otherwise tend to place DSOs
randomly in the address space, potentially overlapping regions that Windows
keeps reserved. If Haiku doesn't implement ASLR, or lets you easily disable
it, or alternatively would accept patches to ensure its address space layout
is always Win32 compatible (better!) then the preloader could be disabled.

However if mmap is more significantly broken then Haiku needs work - Wine does
need the ability to map things into the address space at the requested
locations and actually get it.

~~~
waddlesplash
Haiku implements ASLR but there are ways to disable it. They are undocumented
private APIs, though.

mmap on a fixed address should work just fine, unless the address is outside
the normal range or in an already mapped region, which seems to be a problem
on 32-bit systems. I think there are some emulators we have ports of which
already use MAP_FIXED quite a bit.

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kweinber
Haiku-OS is a another incarnation of BeOS.... a desktop OS created years ago
be ex-Apple exec Jean Luis Gassee.

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dnos
I have apparently been living under a rock and hadn’t heard of Haiku. Looking
at the screenshots, it instantly reminded me of BeOS.

I ended up reading the Wikipedia page on BeOS for some nostalgia and it
mentioned Haiku. Glad to see BeOS still around in some form — definitely was
ahead of its time!

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agildehaus
Haiku is basically BeOS R5 plus some much needed modernization.

Great stuff. We need an open-source operating system 100% focused on the
desktop.

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AnIdiotOnTheNet
> We need an open-source operating system 100% focused on the desktop.

I agree. In my opinion though, Haiku's insistence on becoming just another
platform to run your UNIX software stack on means it will probably never
succeed at that goal.

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waddlesplash
In case you haven't noticed, a majority of people on Windows or macOS use
software that was originally part of the "UNIX software stack" \-- between
SSH, bash, GCC, FFmpeg, etc. I am pretty sure you could find at least one
piece of "originally UNIX" software that at least a majority of programmers
using any given OS use.

Anyway, I think you miss the point of Haiku if you think it'll never get
anywhere because of how much UNIX software runs on it. It's not here just to
"be different from everyone else." The POSIX API makes a lot of sense; anyone
going against it has to have a particularly good reason to do so. Even Apple
doesn't, for the most part.

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tonyedgecombe
A majority of programmers on Windows perhaps, certainly not a majority of
people on Windows.

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pjmlp
Not even the majority, UNIX refugees, yes.

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arthurcolle
I just downloaded the .iso and couldn't get WebPositive to return any web
pages. I also ran a few web searches and couldn't figure out what the command
is to install new packages. Just making some observations.

It seems like a very performant and simple OS (which is a welcome alternative
compared to macOS) but these are pretty glaring problems for a user starting
out. For a project that's been around for over a decade, that's a little bit
of a red flag.

~~~
waddlesplash
The GUI package manager is "HaikuDepot" and the command-line tool is "pkgman".
HaikuDepot is documented in the Userguide: [https://www.haiku-
os.org/docs/userguide/en/applications/haik...](https://www.haiku-
os.org/docs/userguide/en/applications/haikudepot.html) Dunno why no search
engines took you to it.

Also dunno why WebPositive wouldn't do anything for you. It's still a little
buggy, but it usually works well enough for my purposes...

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orionblastar
Haiku is progressing great. Anyone heard of AROS which is a rewrite of
AmigaOS? I try to keep up with free and open source Windows alternatives for
the PC.

We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on a
system they can't afford to upgrade. Just the basic word processing Internet
surfing and email.

ReactOS is progressing as well.

OSFree the OS/2 rewrite seems slower but using the M4 kernel with DOS and OS/2
personalities.

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dingdingdang
> We need something that even senior citizens can use to replace Windows XP on
> a system they can't afford to upgrade.

My personal experience from large scale transition from Windows 7 to Linux
Mint at work indicates that people ABSOLUTELY can use Linux - the UI is
(unlike Win10) stable and things do not move around, settings don't change
themselves on upgrades. And, importantly, updates can be set to be silent and
automatic.

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zozbot123
This, so much. All you need is (1) how to backup and restore your data, and
(2) how to reinstall the system from scratch should it get hosed. The typical
"Windows" way of system administration, haha... but hey, it works. And Debian
with an LXDE session is _literally_ snappier than XP, on XP-class hardware!
(Just don't skimp on the RAM - less than 1GB doesn't cut it anymore if you're
surfing the modern web. And stay on the "stable"/LTS update channel - none of
that newfangled "rolling release", bleeding-edge silliness)

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amjith
Does anyone know if haiku can run Python 3? I know that haiku comes with
Python but thedefault version is 2.7.

~~~
waddlesplash
Yes, it's in the package manager.

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Alir3z4
Delicious!

I didn't know about Haiku up to 2013 I guess where I had a bug report for my
download manager
[https://github.com/Alir3z4/yoDownet](https://github.com/Alir3z4/yoDownet)

It's a really interesting OS

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wodenokoto
My biggest problem with Linux is hardware and installation. I have an old
laptop that Ubuntu fails to get WiFi running on.

Linux is getting good at drivers and "just works", but it still isn't there. I
fear how hard it will be to get haiku running

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karmakaze
Not that many may care but also running is NetBeans IDE 8.2.

~~~
eitland
For years Netbeans has been my go-to IDE for Java and PHP.

It Just Works and contrary to certain other IDEs it uses Mavens pom file
directly instead of translating it to some other (even hehe) less ideal
format.

(Recently though Visual Studio Code has been a so big part of my developer
life because of Dot Net Core, and Netbeans was so late and unclear about their
9.0 release that I tested just using VS Code for Java as well. It worked
reasonably well. But now that Netbeans 10 is released I'd probably go right
back if/when I go back to Java.)

~~~
pjmlp
And it supports mixed language debugging (Java/C/C++), where JetBrains will
happily sell a license of CLion instead of supporting it on InteliJ.

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bibyte
That's really impressive. I hope they continue to port more software.

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raitucarp
Awesome. But, I suggest Haiku people need hire ui/ux for their default
theme/window. It will sure attract more user to try this OS as alternative.

~~~
Klover
So I know dang watches the content of comments to see if they’re up to the
guidelines, but does dang also look at excessive downvotes? The comment here
is greyed out, something that should only be reserved for highly offensive
comments. Which this is not...

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SyneRyder
It isn't offensive (and probably is unfairly downvoted), but it shows a lack
of research. The purpose of Haiku is an open source reimplementation of BeOS
5, so naturally the windowing UI looks just like BeOS [1]. There's a reason
Haiku looks the way it does.

It's a bit of a stretch, but you could argue the comment goes against this
guideline:

 _" Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A
good critical comment teaches us something."_

[1] [http://lowendmac.com/2001/user-interface-mac-vs-
beos/](http://lowendmac.com/2001/user-interface-mac-vs-beos/)

