
Mercedes-Benz shows off the first fully electric heavy urban transport truck - felixbraun
https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/27/mercedes-benz-shows-off-the-first-fully-electric-heavy-urban-transport-truck/
======
netcan
The "externality" most discussed is generally carbon emissions, for obvious
reasons. It used to be particulates, for local health reasons. Noise rarely
gets a mention.

But, if someone from an all electric future was dropped off in 2016 i think
they'd really notice noise above everything else. Traffic noise in cities is a
massive "silent" irritant. Even outside of cities, it's amazing how far you
need to be from a road to hear unadulterated wilderness. Off-road, dirt bikes,
quads, water craft and such can really impact enjoyment of outdoor
recreational places.

I don't think the psychological impacts of this are fully understood, but it
is understood that they aren't trivial. The whole world will get so much more
peaceful with combustion engines out of the picture.

Air travel is the one area where reducing noise would carry an obvious
economic benefit to airlines. Unfortunately it's the one of hardest ones to
solve.

~~~
skrause
Unfortunately electric cars won't solve the noise problem. The graph on
[http://www.leiserstrassenverkehr.bayern.de/laerm/entstehung/](http://www.leiserstrassenverkehr.bayern.de/laerm/entstehung/)
(a German government website) compares the engine noise ("Antriebsgeräusch")
with the tire noise ("Rollgeräusch") for different speeds ("Gesamtgeräusch"
means "total noise"). The yellow line is for trucks, the blue lines for cars.

As you can see at a speed of 40 kph (25 mph) a car's tire noise is already
higher than the engine noise and at even higher speed the engine noise doesn't
really matter anymore. So even if your electric car engine is absolute silent,
the total noise at speeds above 30 mph won't be all that different.

The only real solution is electric cars plus significantly reduced speed
limits.

~~~
derekdahmer
That must only be comparing standard passenger sedans. I live at the
intersection of a busy street and your typical motorized car is barely audible
through the window. Cars are not the problem.

The vehicles that shake the apartment are pickup trucks (low rumble), sport
cars (high pitched tear), transport trucks (big rumble), and motorcycles
(little explosions that set off car alarms). Electric container trucks would
be a huge win for ambient noise.

~~~
paganel
I also live close to a very busy intersection and I have to agree with you.
I'll add though that when you leave your window open then general car noise
definitely becomes a problem, and also wanted to add that I for myself would
ban honking, it's one of the worst feelings in the world to be woken up at 8
in the morning by guys or ladies honking their car for 5 seconds or more.

~~~
nradov
Honking in non-emergency situations is already banned in most countries. The
laws just aren't enforced.

------
agentgt
I think this could be a big deal depending on future politics. I would not be
surprised if Manhattan in 10 years or so only allows etrucks over the bridge
(with certain exemptions of course).

If that happens there could be some interesting but boring (oxymoron intended)
business opportunities like transfer stations at the borders of urban areas
(switch engines).

This could also dramatically improve the safety of trucks as there are still
an enormous amount of trucks that are not automatic and do not have antilock
breaks (or whatever the analogous tech is these days).

By mandating electric engines the safety improvements could be had at the same
time.

I like the name: eTruck.

~~~
vermontdevil
If the mayor of NYC has his way, that could happen. But unfortunately Albany
(the capital of NY) will override it.

See the attempts by NYC to set up congestion pricing but Albany won't allow it
happen.[1]

Personally I think other cities will start this first such as London, LA,
Paris, etc.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing_in_New_York...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing_in_New_York_City)

~~~
sandstrom
Stockholm has congestion pricing since since 2007.

Prices are between $0 and $5 depending on the time and day.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing#Stockholm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing#Stockholm)

~~~
vermontdevil
Sorry I meant in terms of requiring only eTrucks in business districts of
major cities, not congestion pricing.

Just saying that NYC tried to have congestion pricing only to be overruled.
And I'm sure they'll aim for eTrucks only requirement but will be overruled by
Albany because that's what Albany does.

And that other cities (Stockholm I'm sure) will be at the forefront of the new
eTruck revolution as soon as it's commercially viable.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
You say that like you're unaware that NYC basically runs NY from the
perspective of anyone living anywhere but the NYC are in NY.

Same for CA and SV, MA and Boston, IL and Chicago. In states with one dominant
city that city runs the show for the most part. If the dominant city can't get
something done it's either because it's BS and shouldn't get done in the first
place, would screw most of the rest of the state or because they need to wait
to politically recharge after ramming something that fell into one of the
former two categories down everyone's throat.

~~~
alexburton
[0]NYC: The 51st State!
[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City:_the_51st_State](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City:_the_51st_State)

------
javiramos
Trucks seem to be the perfect candidate for electric propulsion. The high
torque of electric motors just make sense for urban acceleration/deceleration.
As a pedestrian, one of the things I hate the most is the the dense, black
smoke from heavy trucks.

~~~
fear91
Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks. The
batteries cannot store as much energy per weight unit as the chemical fuel.
This can be circumvented by using electric wiring overhead.

Sweden is prototyping an electric highway for trucks. It'll make transport
cheaper and less damaging to the environment.

~~~
bluedino
>> Unfortunately the range is becoming a problem on big electric trucks.

Right, there's only a 126 mile maximum range on that truck. So you'd have to
stop and get a new battery every 2 hours, minimum on the interstate.

~~~
mikeash
An "urban transport truck" would do poorly on the interstate? How unexpected!

~~~
bluedino
I'm just adding to the post I replied to, I realize it is an urban truck

------
castratikron
This is where it'd make sense for the battery to be removable. A truck company
could keep a bunch of charged batteries at their warehouse and swap batteries
out every time a truck comes back for a new delivery.

~~~
jessriedel
Why does this make particularly more sense for trucks than cars? Just because
trucks don't need to have a down time for sleeping like a car with a single
owner does?

~~~
jonknee
Trucks often have associated warehouses or depots that could support
centralized battery charging facilities. For cars you are lucky if the owner
has a garage that can fit a car.

~~~
jessriedel
You just argued that it would make _more_ sense for cars to have replaceable
batteries than trucks (which I agree with, and contrary to castratikron): we
can count on trucks to have specialized charging facilities, but there are car
owners who can only park on city streets or other places, who would be well-
served by having battery-swap stations (a la gas stations) rather than home-
charging.

~~~
rhino369
Battery swapping with your self is a lot easier. You don't have to account for
wear and tear other than just replacing batteries when they bust.

But if I go to a "battery swap" location I'm giving up my new battery and
might get a dud. You can set up a business model that solves the problem. For
example, use the propane tank model, where you put a deposit down to get the
first one, and the customer is always entitled to a swap. And the company
always owns the tanks/batteries. But that's an expensive business. These
battery packs are big assets currently.

It's easier to just have two or three owned by a truck company who can swap
themselves.

------
sverige
Electric trucks were common in cities a century ago. The truck museum at "The
World's Largest Truck Stop" has a couple of well-preserved examples.

[https://iowa80truckstop.com/inews/iowa-80-trucking-museum-
to...](https://iowa80truckstop.com/inews/iowa-80-trucking-museum-to-
host-100th-birthday-party-for-1911-walker-electric-truck/)

[http://earlyelectric.com/carcompanies.html](http://earlyelectric.com/carcompanies.html)

------
ourmandave
_Daimler says in a press release that it anticipates prices for its batteries
to have dropped by a factor of 2.5 between 1997 and 2025, while battery
performance will have increased in the same proportion._

Why are they "anticipating" a price drop starting in 1997?

~~~
rhino369
They are anticipating a price drop from 1997 to 2025. Some of the price drop
has already occurred, but from now til 2025 is an estimation.

------
ilikeatari
In the fleet space Smith Electric worked on this since 2005 and it seems like
their trucks are in the perpetual prototype mode. The battery energy density
vs cost still seem to be the major factor. Interestingly enough even regular
gasoline engines are pretty reare and diesel dominates the field.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Electric_Vehicles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Electric_Vehicles)

------
_ph_
It is great to see that Mercedes is working at electrical trucks. Electrical
cars are just the start, the real emission saving will be electrical trucks.
Though one has to note that as stated in the article: 'a “conceivable” launch
window of “the beginning of the next decade” for wide-scale production and
real-world use.'

So it is an early prototype - it will be interesting to see which timeline
Tesla has for their offering.

~~~
Havoc
Tempted to say this is a market that will be heavily stacked in Merc's favour.
Taking a gamble on a sports car is one thing, but if you're replacing your 100
Merc diesel trucks...what are you likely to go for?

~~~
_ph_
I would probably take the Mercedes, if they offer the same performance and
features. But thats a big "if". Currently for example, Mercedes offers no car
that can compete with a Tesla S/X. So with the electrical trucks, one needs to
compare first their specs.

------
taco_emoji
> _Anyone who’s ever been near a large truck...knows the absolute pain of
> hearing that huge chugging internal combustion engine wrestling with getting
> up to a pacing speed._

IMHO the noise from semi trucks is nothing compared to cruiser-style
motorcycles.

------
mgr86
As an aside I'd love a small to mid size electric pick up. I don't do much
driving and we share a volt at home. But a lot of things I don't want to put
into a car with a hatchback. Mulch, compost, gas cans, leaky bags of ice melt,
plants from a nursery, etc.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Is $crossover + weathertech is not an acceptable solution for your problem?

~~~
csours
Most crossovers can't handle a sheet of plywood and 10 foot 2x4s

------
kixpanganiban
Okay, but I need to ask the important question here: when is this coming out
on Euro Truck Simulator?

------
minionslave
100 years from now, our cities will be much quieter.

~~~
artursapek
I hope it doesn't take that long.

------
pjc50
Nice step. As they say, there's a couple of big advantages to electric for
trucks: low noise and emissions are advantages for everyone around them, and
the high torque of electric motors at low speed is convenient for the driver.

------
cptskippy
Someone needs to write a program called "dedazzeler"
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage),
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedazzler](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedazzler))
that can identify and remove the camouflage from vehicles that automakers so
often like to use.

------
ams6110
Wonder what the typical daily mileage is on a local urban tractor/trailer? 120
miles doesn't seem to me like near enough. Maybe eventually charging stations
will become commonplace at most freight terminals so trucks can charge as they
are being unloaded (though the unload may only take a few minutes if it's just
a pallet or two).

------
niels_olson
Concrete camouflage paint for prototypes. Very savvy. I wonder if our heavy
industry (GM, Ford, Boeing, Lockheed, General Dynamics, etc) benefit from NRO
intelligence of what's going on in European and Asian industrial sites.

~~~
coredog64
That swirly black and white pattern is fairly common for vehicle prototypes.
It lets you drive around without the stupid "tent" on the vehicle while still
making it difficult for people to turn spy photos into renderings of the final
product.

------
codeulike
Its just a prototype. Production not for another bazillion years or so.

Also the range is low as mtgx pointed out.

> That’s in part due to its max range of 200 kilometres (about 124 miles).

"If that's NEDC, then it's more like 85 miles EPA."

~~~
mr337
That is what I thought.

Annoucing the new electric semi truck, but not plans to build it. That seems
to be a pretty thing way to claim the first "electric semi truck".

------
nullcipher
Fwiw, Daimler is an investor in Tesla

~~~
greglindahl
Yes, that's left over from an earlier alliance that appears to be pretty
defunct. See:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#Daimler_AG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors#Daimler_AG)

------
douche
Given that most of the truckers I know are trading in their newer, more
heavily computerized trucks for their old models that were simpler and more
mechanical (in a staggering number of cases, for the exact machines that they
traded up from), I'm not sure how this is going to go.

------
mtgx
I hope that color is just a prank. It hurts my eyes just looking at it. Can
car makers stop making "quirky" EV designs? Nobody is asking for them.

> That’s in part due to its max range of 200 kilometres (about 124 miles).

If that's NEDC, then it's more like 85 miles EPA.

~~~
csours
[https://www.google.com/search?q=dazzle+camouflage](https://www.google.com/search?q=dazzle+camouflage)

I think it is kind of hilarious to try to camo a truck, like I can't quite
tell what it is... is it a sports car? is it a SUV? The SUV wars are heating
up!

Also kinda funny that a truck would be differentiated based on sheet metal
styling.

~~~
niels_olson
It's not for someone looking at it. It's for everyone whose eye you don't want
to catch. And consider that Ford or Boeing could easily ask NRO to downlink
images of opportunity whenever untasked Keyhole assets overfly known
industrial sites. Timesharing isn't just for computers and condos.

