
The Ocean Cleanup Is Starting - walterbell
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2018/08/28/the-ocean-cleanup-is-starting-aims-to-cut-garbage-patch-by-90-by-2040/#69796ad0253e
======
mockingbirdy
Boyan Slat was 19 years old when he started this project. He raised over $2
mio. for this project and worked with his university to make it happen. I
think he's a great role model for young people. We need more young people like
him who try to find solutions for the pressing problems of the 21st century.

There are some people who dismiss the Millennials, but it's clear to see that
many of them want to have a positive impact and prefer a meaningful life over
hedonism.

I hope the project works out, but even if it won't work, the signal he's
sending is very empowering.

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toomuchtodo
Still need to implement effective waste management systems at its source, but
progress is progress.

> Roughly eight million tons of plastic enters the ocean every year. That’s
> according to a 2015 report, which also identified where the bulk of this
> trash originates. At the top of the list: China, the Philippines, and
> Indonesia.

[https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/04/explore-...](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/04/explore-
garbage-wave/)

~~~
quotemstr
Do we need to address waste at the source? Sources are diffuse, innumerable,
and spread among different jurisdictions with different levels of commitment
to environmental stewardship. I'm skeptical of our ability to stem pollutants
at the source.

There's a certain attraction to centralized cleanup efforts substituting for
this near-impossible task of enforcing source standards worldwide. While it's
theoretically less efficient to pollute and then clean it up, this model may
have the advantage of actually working.

~~~
mreome
The plastics are diffused, innumerable, and spread through-out the ecosystem
in varying environmental conditions where solutions will have varying
effectiveness and possible negative impacts on wildlife. I'm skeptical of our
ability to implement a large-scale collection effort that will collect a
meaningful percentage of the waste, with a further concern that a poorly
implemented solution may in fact add to the waste and/or impact the
environment in ways just as damaging as the pollutants it does remove.

Yes, enforcing standards worldwide is a "near-impossible" task. But cleaning
up waste at the scales we're talking about, after it's entered the ecosystem,
is impossible. There is no magic bullet here, and the more people who ignore
what has to be done to fix the problem, hoping projects like this will make it
better, the worse it will get.

~~~
quotemstr
> cleaning up waste at the scales we're talking about, after it's entered the
> ecosystem, is impossible.

That's a very strong claim, especially attached to an article about cleanup
mechanisms. Are you sure some kind of synthetic biology mechanism couldn't
work?

Waste removal (be it carbon or plastic) is an engineering problem; source
regulation is a political problem, and political problems tend to remain
unsolved until it is impossible that they remain unsolved.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> Waste removal (be it carbon or plastic) is an engineering problem; source
> regulation is a political problem, and political problems tend to remain
> unsolved until it is impossible that they remain unsolved.

Then move the plastic collection to the mouth of the 10 rivers in south east
asia where the plastic is being emitted from.

~~~
mreome
I would enthusiastically support research and testing on this solution.

Many of the objections to clean-up in the open-ocean are not relevant here.
The depths are very restricted, the ecosystems are more limited, the weather
conditions less extreme and less variable, the plastics should be less broken
down. The impacts and infrastructure would be similar to, and on the scale of,
projects such as locks and dams.

I would see this as a first step to source control. Looking at collected
materials, it would become quickly obvious where the major sources of the
plastics are, and they could start being addressed.

There is a social issue here too though. I would expect this kind of project
would be resisted in the same way that more local clean-up and source-control
efforts in those regions are already resisted.

Edit: There is also the issue that a sizable portion of the ocean plastics
seem to be from discarded/lost fishing equipment.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> I would enthusiastically support research and testing on this solution.

This would probably be helpful to deploy at scale:
[http://baltimorewaterfront.com/healthy-harbor/water-
wheel/](http://baltimorewaterfront.com/healthy-harbor/water-wheel/)

Alone it's not an entire solution, but the technical challenges are not
terribly difficult if you can constrain by the rivers dumping waste into the
ocean. This is more a funding/political/logistical issue (as others have
mentioned/insinuated in-thread).

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rottenjc
They should do this in rivers, near the end before it goes in the oceans or
seas. Getting partnerships with local and national governments to do this
would be easier than asking for charity.

This made me think of the trash often visible on a river shores because it is
caught by tree branches.

I wonder if beavers dams can be used for that to ?

~~~
eddyg
Kinda like the Mr. Trash Wheel in Baltimore?

[http://baltimorewaterfront.com/healthy-harbor/water-
wheel/](http://baltimorewaterfront.com/healthy-harbor/water-wheel/)

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dwighttk
> the organization plans to continue operations with help from the proceeds of
> recycled plastic.

That's not going to work. The proceeds from recycling the plastic aren't even
going to pay for recycling the plastic.

~~~
neals
It's a little more thought out than you give them credit. Imagine a pair of
lawnchairs made from "ocean cleanup plastic", the idea is that people would
pay a large premium for this. It's like a brand that saves the world.

I don't think that such a bad idea actually.

~~~
jimnotgym
An example already in circulation are the ocean plastic shoes. I like the idea
that ocean plastic goods become fashionable

[https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/adidas-shoes-
made-f...](https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/adidas-shoes-made-from-
ocean-plastic-are-finally-h/)

~~~
simonh
Right, it also raises awareness of the problem and puts it in people’s faces.
It’s hard to argue pollution isn’t a problem with someone wearing shoes made
out of it.

Clearly they’re not going to turn all the ocean plastic into flip flops, or
anything necessarily, but multiple options do need to be explored.

Amazing that nay sayers seem to manage to write off the whole problem with
nitpicks at minor or temporary aspects of actual attempts to do something
about it. Early attempts at green energy largely failed, often having carbon
footprints and costs greater than conventional approaches, but without all
that work we’d never tackle the problem. You have to start somewhere.

------
clay_the_ripper
It seems like a lot of comments are debating the relative merits of which
solution will work, whether this is the right solution, pointing out this
doesn’t address the entire problem et al.

What about AND?

work on reducing plastic waste AND try to get it out of the water. Deploy this
solution, try it AND iterate on it. Do this AND the next idea AND the next.
Keep trying things until you find the right solution.

It seems to me that this project does a lot more good than harm, even if it
doesn’t work, it paves the way for solutions that might.

The amount of naysaying and nitpicking here is depressing. Is it perfect? No.
Does it address every problem? No. Is it a start? Yes.

How many times has the right solution been the first thing someone tried?
Rarely. But you keep trying stuff until you find something that works.

At least this guy is DOING something rather than endlessly debating how to fix
it.

It’s easy to be an armchair engineer saying you could dream up 10 better
solutions. Well great, go do it then.

Props to this kid and his organization for taking action on a problem to try
and do some good in the world.

~~~
Maxion
Not to mention that this project brings additional attention to the problem.
The more attention there is the more likely it is that politicians will take
up the matter and strive for a political solution to the source problem.

And even if that doesn't happen, getting rid of even a small amount of
pollutants from the ocean can't be a bad thing, can it?

~~~
monk_e_boy
I live on a peninsula and our beaches are covered in plastic. Over the last
couple of years people litter pick most weekends, but to me it is hopeless.
There is so much. You could spend ten thousand man hours a day cleaning and on
the next tide the beach would be full again. Its just crazy how much crap
there is in the ocean.

Imagine how much plastic is in one garbage truck, now chop it up into small,
5cm bits. Now spread it across a beach, try to pick that up. It takes all day.

We need machines to help us.

~~~
hokus
modify some farming equipment. First separate sand from plastic by washing it
then float it though a vibrating tank to sort it. What part of the technology
belongs on the tractor will have to be figured out over time.

If you separate it by type and size properly it can just be sold/recycled.

While it could be commercially viable I do think money should be pumped in
from other sources. Preferably from [remaining] industries creating and using
the materials found.

~~~
monk_e_boy
I'm not sure what sort of beach you are imagining, I assume a long sandy one.

Ours are rocks, cliffs, deep bays, long sandy beaches that there is no way in
hell they'd allow diggers or tractors on (conservation sites)

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roberto
This effort is just a stunt: [http://www.deepseanews.com/2017/01/what-did-the-
boyan-slat-a...](http://www.deepseanews.com/2017/01/what-did-the-boyan-slat-
and-the-ocean-cleanup-do-last-summer/)

~~~
mrlinx
that's old, and already covered at length. check this if you're interested:

[https://www.theoceancleanup.com/updates/a-peculiar-
survey/](https://www.theoceancleanup.com/updates/a-peculiar-survey/)

[https://www.theoceancleanup.com/updates/environmental-
impact...](https://www.theoceancleanup.com/updates/environmental-impact-
assessment-available/)

~~~
gammatrigono
The Pacific Ocean has a way of destroying dreams that few today have
experienced. I'm rooting for TOC to succeed, but I'm not optimistic.

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ensiferum
The Forbes page wants me to accept their advertising cookies. When i click "no
thanks" and select the "only required cookies" and hit apply the "preferences
submission process" either jaks at ~90% or if it goes through then the site
renders a white page. Anyone else experiencing the same?

~~~
0xbs
This is most likely because of your ad blocker. The page tries to set opt-out
cookies which are blocked by the ad blocker.

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henrikberggren
A huge fan of Boyan and TOC!

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ummonk
And it will harm ocean wildlife more than it will help...
[https://www.kcet.org/redefine/6-reasons-that-floating-
ocean-...](https://www.kcet.org/redefine/6-reasons-that-floating-ocean-
plastic-cleanup-gizmo-is-a-horrible-idea)

~~~
Mizza
This is a bad article (as if being a listicle didn't give that away). Number 6
is "it's far more efficient, cheaper, and safer to keep the plastic out of the
ocean in the first place", which is like saying that the best way to clean dog
poop off of your carpet is to not have a dog.

It's too late for that, investing in clean-up in _addition to_ prevention HAS
to be a top priority for us. In fact, this is in the form of BECCS is the very
basis of the Paris Climate Accords. Investing in prevention won't undo the
damage that's been done, and a lot of environmental groups who only promote
prevention (like those cited in your article) are doing more harm than good.

~~~
mreome
The article was not arguing for inaction, it was arguing that _this particular
solution_ is not viable and could cause more harm then good. Both due to
negative environmental impacts and diverting funds and attention from more
workable and effective solutions. Yes, we need to figure out how to clean up
the plastics that are there, but more importantly, we need to stop adding more
and more every day.

 _... which is like saying that the best way to clean dog poop off of your
carpet is to not have a dog ..._

I would argue the analogy is more "the best way to clean dog poop off of your
carpet is to train your dog not to shit on your carpet." Yeah, there is still
a shit stain we have to clean up, but we can't rent a steam-cleaner every time
he needs to take a crap, and if we try to clean it up with a vacuum, it's
going to make everything much worse.

~~~
jlmorton
> I would argue the analogy is more "the best way to clean dog poop off of
> your carpet is to train your dog not to shit on your carpet."

Well, I would argue this analogy is also rather inapt. Much better would be
training your 7.5 billion dogs not to shit on your carpet. Until most of those
dogs are trained, it makes sense to search for tools to clean up the poop.

We haven't yet extensively tested the vacuum cleaner, and it's not clear how
effective it will be, or whether it might make the situation worse.

~~~
mreome
No, we haven't extensively tested it... but everyone who makes vacuum cleaners
are telling us they won't clean up dog poop, and people who know about carpet
cleaning in general are saying there are other better ways to clean it up and
the vacuum will just make a mess. But, of course, as you said none of these
analogs are really apt, they are just silly simplifications of a major issue.

I'm just trying to say that nobody is arguing for inaction here, on any front,
they are arguing for trying to use the available resources in the most
effective way possible. But people love magic bullet solutions, they want to
back something that will just fix everything, so they ignore whole fields of
experts and professionals, jump on the bandwagon with one buzz-worthy _genius_
, and waste resources that could be better utilized elsewhere.

My concern is less that this particular project will fail, but more that it
distracts people from the real long-term solutions, and the changes that need
to be made for us to work towards those solutions, and actually gives them an
excuse to ignore them. I've actually heard people cite projects like this as a
reason NOT to worry about the amount of waste they generate. Attention is a
valuable resource, and when it comes to ecological issues, it's in desperately
short supply.

Also, unless any proposed clean-up solution can ultimately remove _all_ the
waste, it's actually less effective then any solution that uses the same
amount of resources to prevent the same amount of plastics (yearly) from
entering the ocean ecosystem. The net amount of plastic in the oceans each
year will be the same in both cases, and you remove the negative impacts the
new plastics have before they are removed from the ecosystem (leaching surface
coating chemicals into the water for example), and since new plastic is not
cycling is as quickly, it will increase the rate of decomposition. This is the
argument for making reduction a bigger focus, as opposed to clean-up.

------
newnewpdro
This is a waste of time and resources. The most likely to succeed solution to
the ocean plastic problem is genetic engineering.

Develop a lifeform that lives in the sea and feeds on plastic, introduce it to
the oceans.

~~~
michelb
Or develop a lifeform that stops polluting and respects the environment it
lives in. :)

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notnot
Doesn't plastic, especially white shopping-bag plastic, reflect more solar
radiation than open ocean? Wouldn't covering a large portion of the earth with
white plastic actually lower global temperatures? I saw a video where an open
water reservoir was covered with floating plastic balls to reduce evaporation.
Maybe a large plastic island would help fight global warming.

~~~
whatshisface
The Garbage Patch isn't a floating island, it's a region where microscopic
particles of garbage are more common per cubic meter of water than usual.

