
WordPress Theme Thesis Maker Backs Down, Adopts GPL - jolie
http://mashable.com/2010/07/22/thesis-relents/
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drewcrawford
Off-topic: What does Thesis actually do? Most Wordpress "Themes" I've seen
actually make your blog look a certain way. Thesis seems to be focused on
giving you the tools to do... something to do with how your blog looks, but I
can't figure out exactly what. And none of the blogs in the showcase look
anything like each other.

Is this intended to replace freelance WP theme designers? Or is it intended to
be something that they somehow use in their designs?

It doesn't help that all the video tutorials are behind a paywall...
<http://diythemes.com/thesis/generate-affiliate-links/>

So maybe I am just not in the target market for whatever this thing is, but I
cannot understand why I would want it.

~~~
callmeed
I believe it's considered a "theme framework" ... I think it adds
panels/setting to the WP admin, allowing you to adjust column widths and other
aspects of the blog.

~~~
noodle
so, its a theme plus a plugin?

does this instantly kill the entire premium theme/plugin market?

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zacharyz
Not at all. The rest of the premium theme and plugin market already works
under/with the GPL.

~~~
noodle
fair enough. thanks for the info.

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tjogin
Can somebody provide me with the GPL'ed parts of Thesis? Shouldn't be a
problem, right?

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photomatt
Whew, glad that one is done.

~~~
westi
Indeed we can focus more on the code again now :-)

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HyprMusic
“Even if Thesis hadn’t copy and pasted large swathes of code from WordPress
(and GPL plugins) its PHP (PHP) would still need to be under the GPL,”

Is this really true? I never thought a theme interfacing with other software
using public APIs is a derivative. Is it just the GPL that sees it this way or
is it the actual copyright laws too?

~~~
kj12345
Yeah I don't understand this either. Is there any way to sell a closed-source
piece of software which integrates with Wordpress? What's the difference from
software like www.copilot.com which uses GPL software (TightVNC) at its core?

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Supermighty
___It’s not a complete win for FOSS, but at least it’s fair, compliant and
fork-able._ __

It's a complete win for FOSS. The GPL is intended to preserve the rights and
openness of the original software, not to force people into releasing their
own original creations.

~~~
Supermighty
There is a difference between libre and gratis after all.

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rick888
I love this quote:

"Even if Thesis hadn’t copy and pasted large swathes of code from WordPress
(and GPL plugins) its PHP would still need to be under the GPL, Mullenweg
wrote on his blog. He also began encouraging Thesis users to abandon the theme
and seek GPL alternatives."

Thesis was caught red-handed with GPL code. However, it still bothers me that
the guys over at Wordpress would have still considered it a "derivative work"
if it only had function calls to WP. Even before they found the code,
Mullenweg was saying it was under the GPL, which is wrong.

~~~
ekiru
> Even before they found the code, Mullenweg was saying it was under the GPL,
> which is wrong.

Which you _believe_ is wrong.

Which Mullenweg and the FSF believe is right. Which is the reason the LGPL
exists.

Just because you believe it to be the case that users of libraries are not
derivatives of those libraries does not make it true. Nor does the belief of
the FSF and others that it does make that true.

~~~
rick888
"Which Mullenweg and the FSF believe is right. Which is the reason the LGPL
exists.

Just because you believe it to be the case that users of libraries are not
derivatives of those libraries does not make it true. Nor does the belief of
the FSF and others that it does make that true."

If this were the truth, anything compiled using the GNU compiler would be also
under the GNU (since you would be compiling libraries from this compiler
straight into your application/binary and calling function names).

It really boils down to the definition of a "derivative work". As an example:
A Paypal plugin for Wordpress should not fall under this, yet the developers
for Wordpress think it does.

The entire situation with Thesis will only hurt Wordpress in the future. As a
developer, why would I want to create any Wordpress plugins or themes if
someone else is going to lay claim to my work (which really is my work. If the
guy from thesis was actually re-distributing Wordpress along with his theme,
it would be a different story)?

It's scary to think that the people that have talked about Freedom for so long
are getting just as restrictive and bad as the RIAA/MPAA.

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quadhome
_It's scary to think that the people that have talked about Freedom for so
long are getting just as restrictive and bad as the RIAA/MPAA._

Despite your scare language, this isn't new. "Why you shouldn't use the Lesser
GPL for your next library" [1] was written in 1999.

One of the defining features of the GPL (or any copyleft license) is its
reciprocal or "viral" nature. It was created to define an ecosystem distinct
from one where source could be encumbered or hidden. And has been updated many
times to maintain that ideology in the face of changing laws and legal
precedents.

It's a choice to work in the GPL ecosystem. There's a lot of BSD software
offering an option that many argue is "more free."

[1] <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html>

~~~
rick888
"One of the defining features of the GPL (or any copyleft license) is its
reciprocal or "viral" nature. It was created to define an ecosystem distinct
from one where source could be encumbered or hidden. And has been updated many
times to maintain that ideology in the face of changing laws and legal
precedents."

There needs to be more warnings out there for businesses to steer clear of
anything under the GPL. To call the GPL "freedom" is just laughable. It's a
vile license used to feed a political movement. Nothing more.

~~~
prodigal_erik
The text of the GPL is very clear about what it's trying to accomplish on
behalf of end users. The industry has been publicly debating the ethics and
consequences of copyleft for literally decades. If anyone still hasn't figured
out whether it's appropriate for their business (which is far from the hardest
decision they'll ever face!) there's just no reaching them.

