
Macaw V1 Released - taylorlapeyre
https://secure.macaw.co/
======
salimmadjd
The team deserves a congratulation to produce and ship a decent product on
both platforms in a relatively fast pace given their limited resources
(they're not Adobe or MS).

However, I'm critical of the site and the HN post.

It seems to me the post links to checkout page to increase conversion. Or at
least that was the intent of it. However, this is not a small purchase and I
think they lose even more by sending them to what looks a like a blind alley.

Secondly, the page has a coupon code option. Right away I know I don't want to
pay the full price.

I think the product can save you enough time to warrant the price asked, but I
think I would have bought it if the HN post included a 50% coupon. Especially
if it they had a V1 2-day sale option. Not only I would have bought it, but I
would have shared on FB and twitter. Given many HN readers are influencers
that would have been a good marketing move.

All these aside, I think their videos are horrible. Especially for a $180
product. If the scripts were a bit more polished they could have covered as
much in half the time. They also lack the big picture intro followed by diving
into details. For example: we are able to create global styles an apply it to
different objects. Let me show you how it's done....

To get very picky, the narrator's voice is a bit whiny. I have made videos in
the past and we spend 1-2 hours just on polishing the script and I offered a
friend with a great voice free lunch to come and narrate the video. So it can
be done.

Still, kudos to the team!

~~~
taylorlapeyre
OP here. I am not in any way affiliated with the Macaw team, I'm just a fan
that was closely watching. The reason I linked to the checkout page was that
Hacker News would not allow me to submit a link to their home page because of
a past submission.

I urge everybody who does not see a lot of information about Macaw here to
check out [http://macaw.co/](http://macaw.co/). Sorry about any confusion and
to the Macaw team if this was not the destination that they intended.

~~~
eridius
I have not experimented with HN's anti-duping, but couldn't you do something
like [http://macaw.co/#](http://macaw.co/#) or
[http://macaw.co/?1](http://macaw.co/?1)

~~~
taylorlapeyre
I'm sure I could have, and I wish I could have thought of that before!

If a Hacker News admin would like to change this link destination, they are
more than welcome to.

------
rglover
A lot of folks are hating on this but realize a few things:

1.) This is the first version. We're creeping into an era where a couple of
dudes can compete with MASSIVE corporations. Expect rough edges, but give
congratulations where they're due.

2.) This is the future, like it or not.

I'm a developer (primarily front-end) and while I may not _immediately_
integrate this into my workflow, I can see it becoming a staple for many as it
evolves. The idea of "drawing" code is very intuitive.

Übergeeks will bitch and moan about how it's not the perfect solution or how
they'd rather code it by hand. That's all fine, but don't ignore it because
it's not your ideal solution on day one. Give it time.

If you're smart, you'll at least play with this on a side project and learn
the basic mechanics. If this works out well and continues to evolve, it could
replace a lot of jobs – think about that.

~~~
jacquesc
Scanning the responses on HN, I haven't read a lot of hate. Lots of
constructive criticism. I'm personally looking forward to it improving and
trying it out again soon.

------
publicfig
This looks like a link to the sales page, here's a link to the main page as
well.

[http://macaw.co/](http://macaw.co/)

~~~
hadem
I noticed this as well. Although I have seen the previous demos of Macaw, I'm
very surprised there is no link back to their homepage anywhere on this page.
This page offers very little information for software that costs $179!

How about some information about what potential customers are buying? Or at
the very least, a link to where they can find this information.

------
namuol
I hate to be the one ask, but where's the Linux support? I was ready to buy
Macaw, but my web workflow is in Linux.

Isn't it built on node-webkit? How hard could it be to port, really?

~~~
cwaniak
Linux? This sounds soooo 90s…

Since then we have un*x that simply works: Mac.

~~~
zz1
And it ships with NSA backdoors! __FREE __

~~~
cwaniak
I heard that some of the open source developers work to seed the code with
0-days that can be sold for as much as $250k a pop to NSA…

So… NOTHING IS FOR FREE! And with Apple you can at least get a decent GUI that
doesn't make your eyes bleed.

~~~
orthecreedence
Your opinions are subjective. OSx makes my eyes bleed both in its design and
its unrelenting use of ridiculous animations. It feels like it was made for
toddlers. It takes BSD and bastardizes it enough to make it so some things
require the GUI and some require command line and it's not immediately obvious
which is which (at least coming from a Linux background). In Linux you _know_
you're going to spend 95% of your time in the command line, and on Windows 95%
in GUI.

A nice thing about Linux is if you don't like the GUI, switch it out for
another one. Can your mac do that? No, not without wiping OSx and installing
Linux.

The OSx GUI is usable for many people, but it's in no way a holy grail of
design or productivity.

------
taylorlapeyre
For those that pre-ordered, here's a message from the team:

"We are no longer using Paddle, you will receive an email directly from our
system with details on how to setup your account. Those emails are going out
soon. Thanks!"

[http://forum.macaw.co/discussion/318/macaw-v1-0-is-
here](http://forum.macaw.co/discussion/318/macaw-v1-0-is-here)

~~~
tericho
Thank you, was trying to find where to redeem my pre-order and Paddle was non-
responsive.

------
jeremyt
Some thoughts:

I heard about this a couple months ago at a conference on rapid prototyping,
and I've been waiting for it to come out in the hopes that we would finally
have a rapid prototyping solution for user interface designs. I'm basically
looking for a balsamiq with lots of built-in animations and UI interaction
patterns.

Unfortunately, it looks like this product is geared more towards being a full-
featured WYSIWYG for webpages rather than a prototyping tool for UI.

I need something that will allow me to say "when the user clicks on this, this
other element slides down"... Preferably without having to do the HTML and
JavaScript myself. I don't need it to be production worthy, as my developers
will insist on doing the code themselves anyway.

It looks to me like this is a great tool for either people who don't know
HTML/CSS or firms that need to kick out webpages quickly where the designers
don't want to hand code the HTML/CSS.

Not saying that isn't a huge market, it's just not targeted toward UI
prototyping.

That said, if the goal here is to provide a Dreamweaver 2.0 that spits out
much better quality code, then this option looks really solid and slick.

~~~
tericho
Sounds like you're looking for something completely different than what this
tool has been marketed as since the beginning.

As a full-stack developer it interests me because it lets me visually create
the _visual_ part of a site. I don't like writing CSS when I have so much
other development to do, but at the same time I don't want some shitty,
bloated WYSIWYG editor that spits out garbage code. Macaw's authors have
emphasized the quality of the generated code since the beginning so even if
it's not perfect right away it's certainly comforting to know it's a priority
for them.

~~~
jeremyt
Yes, it looks like it's not what I'm looking for. Just wanted to post in case
there were others out there like me who were confused.

------
vertex-four
This site is poorly designed; I didn't understand how the checkout form works.
It appears at first that I'd have to enter a coupon code from somewhere to buy
it; I thought maybe from the Mac App Store or something, but that wouldn't
make sense. It was only after thinking for a while that I figured the coupon
code wasn't necessary to click the Checkout button.

------
DanielRibeiro
HN discussion of the demo from 8 months ago:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6090111](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6090111)

~~~
awestley
I have been following this for a while. Seemed like longer than 8 months. I am
curious to see the feedback once it has been thoroughly field tested. I have
no problem paying the full price if it pans out.

------
hadem
It looks like an internet connection is required for the demo. When I try to
open it without a connection, I'm told my trial has expired, even though I've
never used the software.

Is an internet connection required only for trial period verification or is
this, always online, internet connection required, software?

~~~
bsilvereagle
> Each purchase of Macaw allows you one account. That account is used to log
> into the app. Users can login to the app on any machine.

I haven't purchased it, but that sure seems like an internet connection is
required unfortunately.

~~~
hga
It's implied by their licencing policy and privacy policy, see this subthread
I started:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7504932](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7504932)

------
aspidistra
The link to some videos of it in action is tucked away in the footer on the
homepage:

[http://macaw.co/videos/](http://macaw.co/videos/)

------
markjspivey
I preordered Macaw and intend on trying it out... I also own and use Adobe
Edge Animate and Sublime Text, etc...

Can someone offer a distinction between tooling such as Text Editors, such as
Macaw, such as Dreamweaver, such as Edge Animate that actually makes sense per
people's arguments and each company's prospective use cases?

Many people are arguing that Macaw would be great for prototyping but that the
code generated is not production ready, but I would argue that Adobe Edge
Animate by that logic would offer an even better prototyping environment, but
have not heard people go gaga over it for such purpose like they have Macaw.

If people do argue that code generated by Macaw is production ready (in some
form), then why would Adobe Edge Animate not also be production ready... for
same purpose?

------
jacquesc
A lot to like after using the trial for a few hours. Its expensive so I'm not
ready to buy just yet but could see jumping in after the next rev if they make
improvements.

2 crucial features I can't really use this seriously without: layouts and
components. Components need to be updating, not just a way to copy and create
duplicate elements everywhere.

Also for me, this would only ever be for throwaway prototypes since I see it
as improbable you'll support ember anytime soon.

Great start though, unfortunately with an idea this ambitious you need quite a
lot to get web devs to jump on board.

------
untilHellbanned
Trying it out for about 15 minutes now...

First thought is that its more confusing than just making a HTML file and
playing with that in Chrome+dev tools.

~~~
mikewhy
And someone who has spent their life in Photoshop will probably say that a
HTML file + Browser dev tools is more confusing than using Macaw ...

I backed this project, and haven't really used it yet. I am also not a
designer.

That's where I think the sweet spot is. Like many others I am a developer and
being handed a .psd / .ai / whatever is just awful. At least this tool gives
great markup for us to build on. Heck, I'm pretty sure the project files can
be checked right into version control.

------
andrewingram
Does anyone know if it differs from Adobe Edge Reflow in any meaningful way?
It superficially seems like it takes a similar approach. Given that it comes
with a hefty price tag, i'd need some serious persuasion.

Naturally I'll play with it a bit more for myself before drawing any concrete
conclusions.

------
edgecrafter
The lowest kickstarter backer level for Macaw with software access were $99
which I backed. I've only had limited time for playing around, but Macaw is
very promising - IF you do produce code yourself. If you mostly just hack
templates it's a bit expensive notepad substitute.

------
tedkalaw
Here's a nice tutorial that runs through of some of Macaw's features:

[https://medium.com/p/aeb72baf1755](https://medium.com/p/aeb72baf1755)

------
supercoder
I'm sure it's worth it, but $180 seems a bit steep for something so new and
unknown.

Wish there was a more entry price at around $20 - $30 that maybe limited a few
features.

I know there's the trial, but I'd actually like to just pay $20 to have
unlimited number of days to 'think' about upgrading to the $180 rather than
have the clock ticking, as sometimes you don't get to evaluate the way you'd
like / plan over those 2 weeks.

~~~
tptacek
If this works, that price is a pittance to anyone who'd use it professionally.
People ask for $100-200 things here (scopes, cheap logic analyzers, jtag
stuff) just to play with them, and we don't blink, because what's the point of
wasting time second guessing people?

A $180 price point makes me much more hopeful about this particular piece of
software. That sounds like a very reasonable and (importantly) sustainable
price.

~~~
supercoder
Yes, I'm not disputing the $180 as the full price, especially for
professionals.

I'm just saying _personally_ I'd prefer a cheaper price point _option_ for
better evaluation.

Certainly would hand over the $180 after evaluation.

As it stands, I don't feel I can eval properly in a 14 day trial, and I don't
want to drop $180 without consideration.

Seems I'm being down voted, not sure why as it's just feedback as to my
reaction on pricing which I figured the devs could find useful regardless of
if there are other people who _would_ pay $180 immediately.

~~~
tptacek
I didn't downvote you. For what it's worth as a marketing parable: you want
something very particular --- early access to a new tool. People like you
generally pay _more_ for tools, not less.

The obvious response to your concern about whether the tool will work out is
to wait and see how other people like it. :)

------
philgr
Is Macaw targeted to designers who don't know how to code?

I recall reading one of the branches from that "responsive sites are all
lookalike" thread from last week which stated that one of the problems is that
the design was thought out by developers. Agree or disagree, the other way
around that would be the target audience for Macaw?

How does it stands against RapidWeaver for the casual user? The price tag is
challenging.

------
fumar
I am glad its not subscription based.

"Price is a flat fee and not a subscription. Price includes all updates to
version 1 of Macaw."

~~~
hga
Yeah, but after reading their use and then privacy policy it sure looks like
you have to be able to connect to their servers to start using it. I assume
that if they go poof, so does your copies of application, short of cracking
it. One would hope they have a provision for off-line use/starting it.

~~~
andrewmunsell
You have to sign in the first time, but after that, you should be able to use
it offline.

~~~
hga
They can't enforce their "any machine, one login in per copy" policy unless
you log in each time you start it. Although one wonders how they deal with
logging out, especially if that machine is offline, or just plain dead, when
you "logout". Would imply a timeout or periodic phone home.

~~~
andrewmunsell
Remember-- it's a node-webkit app, so you can peek at its inner workings ;)

------
anderspetersson
I've been following this since the first demos, looks promising indeed.

Will be very interesting to see how this get adapted by the design community.

------
pavlov
Macaw looks great. Has anyone used it for actual projects? What feature(s) did
you enjoy the most?

------
danial
Congratulations for finally releasing. I have been looking forward to trying
it out.

------
sz4kerto
502 Bad Gateway nginx/1.4.4

... when trying to activate my email address. Great!

~~~
jvoorhis
They seem to be having problems with their app. I wasn't able to view the
pricing page for the same reason.

------
MPetitt
Can anyone who has used this explain to me if it is worth $180? I own both
textmate($50 iirc) and sublime(around $70 iirc) so spending that much seems a
bit much. I know it has some nice visual features, but is it $120 worth?

~~~
adamnemecek
Well, it's not really a text editor, it's more of a WYSIWYG editor.

~~~
MPetitt
So for an actual web developer this is pretty much useless? It kind of sounds
like Dreamweaver 2.0.

~~~
adamnemecek
I mean that's what it is. And you can think of it as Dreamweaver but unlike
Dreamweaver, Macaw is supposed to generate code that is similar to handwritten
code. So if they can deliver on that objective, it will be very useful.

------
kbar13
This page doesn't say much, but it looks like this is the next Dreamweaver.

------
hydralist
how soon will this be pirated?

~~~
lurcio
Its been pirated since at least v0.75 (I know bcd its my business to know)

I pre-ordered btw. I have no pretence to design/UX chops beyond appreciation -
but for the times i want to throw a nice front end up to work towards, this is
useful (esp. device preview)

Good job Macaw

------
jbeja
Sad is only for mac :(.

~~~
hga
Or Windows, XP or above.

~~~
jbeja
I use Linux :).

~~~
hga
So do I.

But for the right program, I'd get a Windows VM running, or perhaps run it on
a random machine. I swore off Macs in 1987, and the more I see of Apple, the
more determined I am to never again use any of their products.

(For that matter, OS X is Apple's red headed stepchild, and everyone I know
with a Mac is moving off the OS X ecosystem.)

