
Why are glasses so expensive? The eyewear industry prefers to keep that blurry - prostoalex
https://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-why-are-eyeglasses-so-expensive-20190122-story.html#nws=mcnewsletter
======
jawns
Reminder, if you're in the US, the FTC says your eye doctor _must_ give you
your prescription after your exam. If a doctor refuses to do so, they can face
legal action and penalties.

[https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-
prescriptio...](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-prescription-
eyeglasses-your-rights-are-clear)

That said, I don't think the FTC stipulates what information must appear on
the prescription. Many docs leave off your PD (pupillary distance), which is a
necessary measurement if you're buying online. Fortunately, there are a
variety of easy ways to take this measurement yourself after the exam,
although if you're really concerned about precision, you'll want the doctor's
measurement.

And by the way, it should go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Although
the quality of eyewear available online can be comparable to what you'd get in
store ... please don't think an online eye exam is an acceptable substitute
for visiting an ophthalmologist in person and getting a comprehensive eye
exam!

~~~
dawhizkid
biggest scam is that glasses/contact prescriptions only last a year in the US

~~~
Aunche
Needing a prescription for glasses is a bit absurd to begin with. The worst
case of wearing the wrong prescription is that you'll get a headache. I
suppose it could be a bit dangerous if some drivers were slightly disoriented,
but I can't imagine glasses being more dangerous than something like Tylenol.

~~~
jolmg
> The worst case of wearing the wrong prescription is that you'll get a
> headache.

Doesn't using the wrong prescription worsen eyesight faster?

At least, it's been my general experience that when a child is curious about
people's glasses and is given the glasses so they can experience the effect,
they only let them try it for a couple seconds and are explained that using
them for too long can cause damage to their eyesight (because it's the wrong
prescription for them who have perfect eyesight). Is that a myth?

~~~
Aunche
The eyes don't care about what's in front of it. The brain does the image
processing, so that's the only thing that's affected by a bad prescription. If
your glasses are so wrong that it causes eye strain, it may cause damage, but
you'd have to purposefully put yourself into that ordeal.

[https://mayoclinichealthsystem.org/locations/la-
crosse/servi...](https://mayoclinichealthsystem.org/locations/la-
crosse/services-and-treatments/ophthalmology/myths-and-facts)

~~~
PavlikPaja
The eye very much does care what's in front of it. Look up "emmetropization".

------
interlocutor
The reason glasses cost so much is because one company owns: (1) nearly all
brand name frames including Ray-Ban, Oakley, Prada eyewear, Armani eyewear and
so on, (2) nearly all retail stores such as LensCrafters, Pearle Vision, Sears
Optical and Target Optical and (3) EyeMed, one of the largest vision insurance
companies.

See this eye-opening 60 Minutes story on Luxottica:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdq2rIqAlM)

Luxottica retail brands: [http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-
brands](http://www.luxottica.com/en/retail-brands)

Luxottica eyewear brands: [http://www.luxottica.com/en/eyewear-
brands](http://www.luxottica.com/en/eyewear-brands)

Luxottica vision insurance:
[http://www.luxottica.com/en/node/6336](http://www.luxottica.com/en/node/6336)

In the US, only Costco and Walmart's optical departments are independent of
Luxottica.

~~~
Improvotter
Why does that make the glasses so expensive though? The frames from my glasses
were about 100 EUR and the glasses were a lot more expensive. If I ask my
parents or other people, they are paying 1000 EUR or more for the glasses by
themselves (not the frames). I'm about to get new glasses next month because
my current glasses are 6 years old now, I'm looking forward to some new
glasses.

~~~
gambiting
That's insane.

I've recently bought a pair of regular glasses as well as prescription
sunglasses. Regular ones use Mont Blanc frames(considered expensive) + some
pretty good lenses(best ones they offered anyway). Total cost: £400 for
everything.

Sunglasses: Ray-Ban frames + their own Ray-Ban G15 prescription lens(again,
pretty expensive) - total cost £320 for everything.

I just don't understand - how are those people you mention paying 1000 euro
for glasses(I assume you mean lenses)????? Are they some incredibly complex
custom lenses that they are getting? Mine are for nearsightedness + slight
astigmatism in one eye.

~~~
Improvotter
These are specific types of lenses that are for both nearsightedness and
farsightedness.

------
pugworthy
You want to know what's outrageously expensive, yet equally important for
basic ability to function in the workplace and other situations? Hearing aids.
Hearing aids are glasses for your ears. But compared to them, glasses are
unbelievably dirt cheap, and basically fully covered by a lot of decent
company insurance plans. Hearing aids? Not the case.

Imagine if glasses cost $2-3000 per lens. PER LENS. And your company insurance
offered to cover some of it, but limited you to ONE PAIR IN YOUR LIFETIME.
That's the policy of my Fortune 50 employer believe it or not.

~~~
munk-a
Hearing aides are also insanely cheap to produce, they are not complicated
devices and that market is only surviving due to the medical device status of
them causing a high barrier to entry.

~~~
patentatt
I’d take issue with “not complicated.” They are very tiny, have to be very low
power, and they run a surprising amount of real-time DSP. Then the whole
electronics package has to be integrated with an acoustics package including
multiple microphones and transducers. And the higher quality all of those
acoustical components are, the more transparent the end product. And it all
has to be durable enough for continuous wear by a human for multiple years. I
wouldn’t diminish what cutting edge hearing aides do, they can be quite
impressive technically.

~~~
kstrauser
I ask seriously: could this be replicated with AirPods and an iPhone, in
software?

~~~
repiret
The latency between the AirPods and the iPhone is too high for the iPhone to
do any of the real-time work. I have no idea if the AirPods have a DSP that
would be able to do that work.

But cheap, small, low power DSPs can do an amazing amount of work these days.
Even if the AirPods don't have such a DSP, they're a good example of a
reasonably complex piece of electronics with speakers and a microphone that
sits in your ear, but costs an order of magnitude less than hearing aids. I
think they're a good datapoint to argue that a truly free market could make
much cheaper hearing aids.

------
blackbrokkoli
Title correction: Why are glasses so expensive in the US? The American eyewear
industry prefers to keep that blurry.

Please stop using the US as the "that's how it is"-standard.

In Germany, you pay a very reasonable (from my layman perspective) price for
the lenses, maybe about 40$ plus another 30$ if you want to have non-
reflective glasses or product from big name producers and stuff like that.
Like every fashion product, frames start at a few bucks up to whatever you
want to pay. Measurements, bending the frame are included in the service. None
of this involves health insurance, as far as I know.

~~~
uf
70$ for glasses in Germany? I have to pay about 200€ per glas. Maybe weaker
glasses are cheap. After all you can buy glasses in the supermarket for a few
bucks.

Those modern glasses get scratches after just a few years of careful handling
and cleaning only with „Mikrofaser“ in my experience. No fun having weak eyes
in Germany.

~~~
Epskampie
You might consider an ultrasonic glasses cleaner. They are pretty cheap
(around €50), and clean without touch.

~~~
uf
Thanks, I’ll check that out. But otoh it’s another thing you’d have to carry
around.

I‘ll also try buying glasses online as suggested elsewhere. I do that with
contact lenses already (dailies for when I’m on stage).

~~~
stevewodil
I've had good luck with eyebuydirect, and have heard some good things about
Zenni too.

------
flavor8
Zenni is very good. There is a slight difference in quality between them and
the Armani Exchange glasses I got from an optician, but it's not significant.
I got a basic pair of black framed rectangular nerd specs for $8 last week,
and I'd happily wear them out.

Measure the frame of a pair of glasses that looks good on your face and then
try to find glasses with those measurements on Zenni.

~~~
wuliwong
I've been wearing glasses for over 25 years, the last 5 or so years I've been
buying them from Zenni and it has been great. The best pair of glasses I've
ever owned were about $25 from Zenni. I used to wear contacts a lot more until
I got that one pair from Zenni. Now I wear contacts a few times a month.

I had to get a new prescription, so I went to a Walmart. After, they said that
they could replace the lenses in my Zenni frames. It was going to cost me
$180-240 just for the lenses!

I have never researched the economics of all this but there is an option for
cheap glasses in the US that anyone with access to the internet can use. I
wonder why people are still paying so much?

The conclusion from the article:

>Why do glasses cost so damn much?

>Because this industry has been getting away with fleecing people for decades.

That's all well and good but the fact that there ARE cheap options out there
still begs the question, why aren't people using them?

~~~
nomel
> Why aren't people using them?

I've converted several people, but not being able to touch them and try them
on first appears to be a significant problem.

~~~
CamelCaseName
Actually, you need to be able to try them on to ensure that you get your OC
(optical center) correct.

This isn't a problem for people with relatively low prescriptions, but the
stronger your prescription, the more important it is to get this right.

Some online stores will try to get it from a photo, but your OC actually
changes by how/where you wear your glasses along the bridge of your nose, and
that in turn changes with the frame you wear.

So if you've got a low prescription, why not just go to the local pharmacy?
They sell prescriptions as strong as +/\- 3.5 over the counter for $15.

~~~
BEEdwards
You get it measured by your eye doctor, then Zenni has a box for it.

They also give you a ruler with your first order, but it's crap, just have
your doctor do it.

------
cryptonector
One word: protectionism. Nothing else can explain it. The U.S. healthcare
system is _rife_ with protectionism, and it's disgusting. From how hard it is
to become a doctor, to how hard it is to build a new hospital (you need a
"certificate of need" in just about all States to build one), to FDA
regulations on drug manufacturing being extremely expensive, to too many drugs
not being over the counter (thus requiring a trip to your general
practitioner), it's all protectionism, all the time. On top of that we have
huge distortions, like the non-insurance insurance schemes that have caused
there to be no single public price for anything anywhere, thus destroying the
single most important feature of free markets (price signalling). It's all a
mess.

~~~
cheeseomlit
I think what you're describing is bureaucracy, red tape, over-regulation and
crony capitalism. Protectionism as I understand it would be measures taken to
reduce competition from outside the country, not within it

~~~
cryptonector
When the law requires that you get a "certificate of need" in order to build a
hospital, _that_ is very much a protectionist measure. Requiring that medical
student careers be approximately a decade long is another protectionist
requirement. The FDA often functions to protect large players. There is a ton
of protectionism in the U.S. healthcare "market".

~~~
vkou
> Requiring that medical student careers be approximately a decade long is
> another protectionist requirement.

No, that's just reflective of how damn difficult it is to distill the body of
knowledge required to be a doctor into a brain.

Just because you can learn enough Javascript in 24 hours to build an insecure
one-page CRUD app with an animated duck, doesn't mean that you can do the same
with the human body.

It takes years of theory (med school), and years of supervised on-the-job
practice (residency), to build up the knowledge and expertise required to give
people _good_ medical advice.

~~~
cryptonector
Medical training in the U.S. requires first a non-medical degree.

~~~
vkou
The non-medical bachelor's degree is not the expensive part of becoming a
doctor.

~~~
cryptonector
It sure is expensive though, as it's four years of lost production. Four
years' income is a big deal. Cost of opportunity.

------
justfor1comment
Have to share this related story. I recently got a new prescription and the
glasses salesman at my optometrist said that my insurance is super generous
and willing to pay upto $200 every year for new glasses, so I should
definitely get a pair before the end of the year. So I looked around and
picked a frame I liked. The salesman measured my PD and started offering me
options on the lenses. Coat this, photo reflect that. I said no to every
option that was offered since I know those will rack up the cost. In the end
the salesman added up all the costs and said that the total will be $230. I
was like that's great so I only have to pay $30 for them. But the salesman was
like I already deducted your insurance payment in the calculation, the actual
cost is $430 of which $230 you will have to pay. After hearing that, my eyes
opened so wide that 20/20 vision was restored in them.

~~~
deckar01
My optometrists have all used color-coded stickers that represent the price
tiers of frames. Only one of them ever seems to be under my insurance
allowance. They don't really have an incentive to make them any cheaper than
the average allowance otherwise they would be leaving money on the table.

~~~
justfor1comment
Yes, I noticed this as well and the one that is under the insurance allowance
is comically ugly.

------
kilo_bravo_3
Glasses are not expensive.

Convenient glasses, or glasses with recognizable brand names, available in one
hour at your local mall are expensive.

My glasses were $29 plus shipping.

The magical mystery superpower that I developed after being bitten by a
radioactive wombat which enabled me to break through the chains of Luxxotica
and do (according to people on the internet) the impossible and escape their
"monopoly" was: using Google to find online eyewear retailers.

~~~
wuliwong
Haha, that's what I was wondering. How is this a monopoly if I'm able to buy
glasses for $25?

~~~
RugnirViking
You're taking a pretty narrow view of what a monopoly is with your anecdote.

A monopoly is where a company gets large enough that it is able to leverage
its market share in anticompetetive ways (charging outrageously high prices,
far above the competition, for exampe).

NOT where its literally impossible to buy other brands or where a company has
100% market share. That scenario is impossible and will never happen in any
market.

------
dawhizkid
Jins (Japanese company) in SF makes glasses on site in 30 minutes for < $100.

[https://www.yelp.com/biz/jins-san-francisco-3](https://www.yelp.com/biz/jins-
san-francisco-3)

Also, this story seems a few years behind given the rise of Warby Parker to
address this very problem. If the person who felt compelled to spend $800
because they actually did not think they had any other option then they are
living under a rock and/or being scammed by their optometrist.

~~~
jstarfish
> If the person who felt compelled to spend $800 because they actually did not
> think they had any other option then they are living under a rock

...or they have really bad astigmatism.

Those lenses are not cheap and are usually excluded from 2-for-1 deals and
other sales. Short of Lasik (which itself cannot always correct it) there
really is no other option.

> being scammed by their optometrist

They also do that when it comes to frames, and it's really obvious.

The cheap/covered-by-insurance rack is usually a single rack in the back of
the store, nondescript, and only mentioned if asked about.

After an eye exam the clerk will run your insurance, see what the coverage
limit is, and guide you straight to a designer rack at an appropriate price
point (unless you express interest in something more upsellable).

------
tianmingwu
A few years ago I found a technique on youtube to help myopia by wearing
slightly lower prescription glasses. And the author recommended
zennithoptical.com for cheap glasses. I was almost shocked to find their price
to be that cheap. And when I bought a couple of pairs, it turns out their
quality is quite decent.

I have since bought more than a dozen glasses from zennithoptical.com, at a
total cost of about $300. And by using the technique, the prescription on both
of my eyes dropped by 1 (from -5.75 to -4.75). Unfortunately that seems to be
the limit of that technique. But I was extremely happy to find a source for
cheap yet good glasses. Now I have two normal prescription pairs for daily use
like driving, two more pairs for reading (1 for backup for each).

So the cheapest way to get glasses now is to get a prescription at Costco
(cost about $40), then just buy your glasses online.

~~~
outworlder
> A few years ago I found a technique on youtube to help myopia by wearing
> slightly lower prescription glasses.

That is not physically possible.

Maybe (and that's a big concession, I'm very skeptical) it could work with
kids, with still-developing eyes. No amount of glasses trickery will reshape
your cornea in adulthood.

Other than the physical world constraints, if this hypothesis was true,
people's myopia would never progress, as you would, by definition, be wearing
lower prescription glasses if this happened, so it would self-correct.

The only thing this will get you is a headache.

~~~
tianmingwu
I don't know if it works with kids.

I'm a programmer, I look at the computer monitor probably about 8 hours per
day. What I did was that I wear a glass with weaker prescription so that when
I look at the computer monitor, the characters are slightly blurred but I can
still read them. I did this for about 6 month and my prescription went from
-5.75, -5.25 to -4.75, -4.25. Actually when I started even with the -5.75,
-5.25 prescription my vision is about 1.2 or so.

Unfortunately this technique seems to only work at the beginning. In the
months following the first 6 months my vision didn't improve anymore so I
stopped it. But I consider spending $300 to knock off 1 point prescription
from each eye quite worth it.

By the way I never got any headache from wearing weaker prescription glasses
(and I did get headache before when wearing stronger prescription glasses).
Actually I found it comfortable to wear weaker prescription glasses when
reading, because my eyes don't feel stressed. That is actually the optometrist
at Costo suggested to me.

------
mancerayder
Contacts are even worse. Did anyone notice that online vendors in the US like
the 1-800 one were well cheaper, and now somehow they all have the same
pricing? And that a special contact lens check is required, at a separate
price, to get a prescription for contact lenses renewed, even if the script is
the same for glasses and contacts, and you just did the glasses? And that
while you can buy 100 years of contacts, the script is only valid for 12
months on the dot? Oh, and you can't resell your unopened box of contacts on
eBay or anywhere.

Regulations are good but these laws in the US are very cartel-y. I remember in
the UK in 2012 or so I could order as many contacts as I wanted with no
script, no questions asked, online.

~~~
riahi
Your prescription cannot be the same for contacts as it includes additional
parameters like curvature. The diopter may or may not be similar, true.

The whole point of a separate contact lens exam is to assess lens fit and
check for corneal complications usually related to over-wear.

~~~
mancerayder
Curvature doesn't change.

The UK has or at least had the ability to order online scriptless, it's not
exactly anarchy over there.

Also as mentioned I can order 10 years of contacts with one 'valid one year'
script.

------
coldtea
> _Reminder, if you 're in the US, the FTC says your eye doctor must give you
> your prescription after your exam. If a doctor refuses to do so, they can
> face legal action and penalties.
> [https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-
> prescriptio...](https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2016/05/buying-
> prescriptio..).

That said, I don't think the FTC stipulates what information must appear on
the prescription. Many docs leave off your PD (pupillary distance), which is a
necessary measurement if you're buying online. Fortunately, there are a
variety of easy ways to take this measurement yourself after the exam,
although if you're really concerned about precision, you'll want the doctor's
measurement._

The doctor will leave off prescription information on-purpose? WTF?

I'm not sure what bizarro system the US has with opticians and buying
glasses...

On a trip in the US I broke my glasses. I had to get a replacement, but I was
in rural country, and it was a weekend. Now, even though there were shops
selling eyewear open, I couldn't just get a pair, because they wanted a
prescription from a doctor (I think I went to a Walmart, whose doctor that
takes prescriptions was off for the weekend among other places).

In my country you can get a prescription on the spot at any shop selling
eyewear (perhaps our law dictates that any eyewear shop has an optician in
employment -- but any assistant can also take a lens of your old glasses and
get the measurements). In any case, a prescription test costs nothing, and you
can buy single use contact lenses with that immediately, or get the glasses in
a couple of days.

------
Someone1234
No doubt discussion will turn to online optics (as it always does). The
problem with online optics is the same as clothing: trying things on is
important, and adjustments can only be done in person.

Last time we purchased Zenni Optical glasses we had issues, but none of which
are Zenni's fault but rather inherent problems with buying glasses online.

The first issue was that the frames simply didn't look right/fit right/fall
right even after using their photo preview to "try them on."

The second issue is that you're on your own for adjustments. What you'd
typically do is at delivery have someone use a heat-gun and tugging to adjust
how they sit. I had a heat gun, but was unable to adjust them to satisfaction.

Ultimately glasses and prescription sunglasses for $120 is very cheap, but
there's issues with the whole concept, so we wound up just going to Costco
instead. The Zenni ones sit in a draw as "backups," that is in spite of them
doing everything they said they would do (i.e. prescription was spot on,
frames were as-advertised, etc).

~~~
cableshaft
That's part of the reason I get my main glasses from my eye doctor, and then
computer glasses or sunglasses from a place like Zenni. I don't care about how
I look in them when I sit in front of a computer or in a car.

In fact, I have a wide head, and I've had better luck getting frames that
don't squeeze into the side of my head through Zenni than anything I tried at
an optometrist's. I basically just went with the widest pair offered, which
they provide measurements for on Zenni, where I have to try each and every
pair almost in person since they don't show those measurements.

------
intertextuality
My experiences in the US in 2015 and prior:

* Took exams, but didn't receive PD (pupillary distance). Had to take another exam and specifically ask in order to receive that.

* Frames from most places except Walmart were disproportionately expensive, and walmart's styles... were lacking. Only select styles were reasonably priced.

* Nowadays my family in the US uses Warby Parker. Last time I used it the prices were reasonable, one just needed their pupillary distance measurement and an eye exam taken within one year.

* For both Warby parker & brick and mortar shops, you had to wait for the new glasses to come in.

* The process for contacts was better, but still quite expensive. I had to drive to the eye exam so I couldn't do the enlarged pupil process.

My experience in Korea in 2018:

* I walked into a random glasses store, picked out a pair of frames, gave my old glasses to the clerk in order to scan them, waited 10 minutes, and then walked out with thin, good-looking, strong-prescription glasses for $80. Couldn't have been easier or more straightforward.

* This year I plan to get contacts to see what the process is.

------
Solar19
Whenever we see an apparent monopoly or a confusingly high profit margin, we
should immediately look for barriers to entry. Situations like this are
usually explained by the existence of a racket with government-enforced
barriers to entry.

Optometry is a licensure racket with strong legal barriers to entry. The sale
of glasses is ostensibly a separate business without the same barriers, but I
suspect it rides on the coattails of optometry's racket. I think there's an
inertia tie between the eye exam and the purchase of glasses.

The cleanest way to end this nonsense is to break the optometry licensure
racket. Think about what optometrists actually do. Think about all your eye
exams and the whole "1 or 2" procedure as they flip through lenses. Honestly,
most adults could probably do that job and produce a correct prescription
after maybe a week's training. I'm not saying they're inherently bad people or
anything, and I like my optometrist, but it's a racket just like realtors,
lawyers, and other guilds that use the law to prop up their prices and reduce
competition.

There's at least one startup out there that wanted to do eye exams through a
specially designed web app. Expect the optometry racket to lobby hard against
this, just like taxi rackets tried to stop Uber. And there ought to be
companies offering cheap glasses online any second now...

~~~
cogman10
I agree to an extent.

Most people could do what your average pediatrician does at a normal checkup.
The reason you want a licenced pediatrician is for the abnormal.

While an optometrist isn't generally needed, they are sometimes. For example,
they are generally the first ones to catch diabetes.

I'm not an optometrist, just someone that has worn glasses their whole life.

~~~
Solar19
Me too. The diabetes angle is interesting – I hadn't thought of that.

------
yonifrandzel
Ever wonder why you cannot get glasses made of glass anymore? (At least that’s
the case in Israel).

Glass used to be a lot cheaper than plastic, more durable and long lasting.
You rarely needed to replace them every year or two like with plastic, unless
you really smashed your lenses hard and got a nasty chip.

All plastic lenses get scratched within a few years and your sight becomes
gradually foggy until one day it dawns on you. “I can’t see anything!” - and
then it’s time to renew the... What? The SUBSCRIPTION!? Sorry, the
prescription. Right.

With glass that would never happen.

The repeated mantra I’d always get from the optometrists is that glass isn’t
sold anymore because it can shatter and splinters could get into you eyes.

I don’t know about others, but I’ve been hanging on to my glass pair for over
18 years now, not a scratch or a chip or anything, and they are on a half
frame! And I’ve done sports with them too... maybe not the smartest thing to
do, but I will not give up seeing cristal glass clear!

At one of the optometrists I used to go to where they’d sell me plastics I
discovered they would use acetone to clean the glasses. Yes, acetone, which
eats the plastic away. Something to make your subscription a little more
often. I’m Never going back there.

What’s funny is that my glass pair has lasted so long they have gone in and
out of fashion multiple times now.

I really wish they’d bring back the glass. I’m in the off fashion period now.

~~~
danielbln
What are you doing with your glasses? Use a microfibre cloth to clean them and
there is no reason that they get scratched, and especially not every couple of
years. I've had mine for 8 years and the only reason I've recently changed
them is to get a different frame. Also, glass is really heavy, especially if
you have to have them with a significant diopter, and it also prone to
breaking if dropped onto a hard surface. Here in Germany you can still get
regular glass if you so desire, so maybe it's just Israel.

------
evarady
I'm Eric, the founder of Topology Eyewear. Our 3D face scan (via our iPhone
app) is way more accurate than a standard pupilometer used in a Doctor's
office (and WAY WAY better than a ruler or dots placed by a sharpie!). We
solve for monocular PD, so no need to beg your doctor for this piece of info
that isn't technically part of your Rx. Check it out at
[http://www.topologyeyewear.com](http://www.topologyeyewear.com) or on the App
Store at [http://bit.ly/topologyapp](http://bit.ly/topologyapp) I'm happy to
answer here any optical or technical questions anyone has - just hit reply!

~~~
teilo
Right. Except that you have to buy eyeglasses if you want those numbers. The
app will not tell them to you, and the frames alone are $349, not counting
lenses. Total price starts at $600 and goes up. So, no thanks. I'll pass.

~~~
sct202
That's insane! $349 I could buy like 10 pairs at any other online store with
the upgraded coating.

~~~
IWeldMelons
I live in ex-USSR in one of the poorest republics. My mom bought recently nice
eyeglasses for $3.50. The procedure is this: you name the type of lenses (+2 +
3 etc) and they give a bunch of eyglasses with different ocular differences.
You chose one that works for you and then choose the frame.

------
dirktheman
Expensive? I have astigmatism, top notch lenses with blue light filter and a
slight varifocus (Eyezen, highly recommended for screen work) and a designer
frame. This was a rather expensive purchase (around 350 euros) for me, but
since I'm behind a screen a lot it's worth it.

Also, I bought these glasses at my local glasses store. I get headaches
whenever my glasses aren't exactly centered or straight, so in a typical year
I come in around 10-15 times to adjust them. They give me great service all
the time, always cleaning the glasses and replacing screws/nose pieces for
free. When I got theses glasses the lenses were replaced two times (I had
transitions, didn't like them, and I got headaches from the second pair
because my brain couldn't get used to the new astigmatic values), also without
additional costs.

Buying glasses online is fine, but since I rely on my glasses every waking
hour and require a lot of service, I'll keep buying them from my local shop.
Probably not the most economical way, but 350 euros every couple of years
isn't that shocking, either.

------
jandrese
Walk into any eyeglasses store and what do you see? Tons of designer labels on
everything, labels that were clearly just sold to some third party outfit to
slap on their frames.

As someone who generally avoids high fashion it drives me crazy to see all of
those expensive and useless logos on everything along with $400 price tags.
I'm glad to see all of these online outfits so ready to undercut them.

~~~
wuliwong
Walmart wanted to charge me $180-240 just to replace lenses in my frames. Even
without a brand name it's still expensive!

~~~
lmpostor
Because you're lenses are coming from the same place. Depending on the
contract year, your lenses are probably coming from Essilor, which at that
point you should be probably be going to a private practice and getting better
customer service and deals (in terms of warranties, and actually getting the
most from the manufacturer). Though that really only extends to a two year
period, if it is longer than than, it is pretty much considered a completely
new order.

Disclosure, I work for Essilor.

------
hirundo
I've been buying from a Chinese maker online, Zenni. They sell a pair with all
of the trimmings for $120 that's about $400 at my optometrist's. I did not get
a great fit on the first try, but did on the second, so that still saves
around $160. And using the fitting for that pair I've bought three others that
all fit well.

The worst part is the sad look in my optometrist's eyes when I say I'd just
like the prescription please.

------
xchip
I was shocked that glasses cost as much as the lens of a DSLR camera, and
glasses dont have all the moving parts and materials a DSLR lens have. I found
some cheap glasses company on the internet and now I am very happy with the
results.

~~~
umeshunni
I just use a 50 f/1.8 lens instead of wearing glasses. Problem solved.

------
jtwaleson
I'm the CTO of an online eye test for the European market
([https://easee.online](https://easee.online)). We work together with online
retailers that want to offer prescription glasses at much lower costs and they
need us to go fully online.

The industry has had pretty absurd margins for years, and that's fine for the
fashion aspect of course, but I believe there should be affordable options for
everyone, especially as the plastic only costs a couple of $ to produce.

I've been working in this space for one year and still have lots to learn, but
I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have!

~~~
semi-extrinsic
Looks interesting, I'll check it out!

FYI your copy hasn't been translated from Dutch everywhere on the English
site. (Ik hou echt de stroopwafels!) Also your scrolljacking really works
badly on Firefox mobile, it scrolls back up a bit five seconds after I scroll
down, making it super annoying.

~~~
jtwaleson
Thanks for the feedback, I'll sort it out with my team :)

------
shubham001
This article is a literal translation of a 2012 60 mins show.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUiWOGv8ec&t=87s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUiWOGv8ec&t=87s)

Lensley Stahl is interviewing then Luxxotica CEO and his answers are really
interesting. A must watch IMO.

------
_visgean
More in depth article: [https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/10/the-
invisible-p...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/10/the-invisible-
power-of-big-glasses-eyewear-industry-essilor-luxottica)

------
kabdib
I was paying over $700 a year for glasses. Funny how the cost always seemed to
add up to the max annual amount that my Vision program covered. Since my
prescription basically stopped changing five years ago, I determined my IPD
(pretty easy with a ruler and a mirror) and now I just order from online
glasses providers, for about $100 a pair. No issues at all.

It's still important to see an eye doctor every year or two so that medical
issues can be spotted early. But it's stupid to pay crazy prices for what
should be a commodity.

~~~
favorited
> Funny how the cost always seemed to add up to the max annual amount that my
> Vision program covered

I can echo this experience. Buying eyeglasses from the optometrist office has
always felt nearly the same as dealing with a car salesman.

------
walterbell
There is a famous US company that has been making frames and lenses for
decades. They are still around, offering classic models in a variety of custom
sizes. They will insert any lens you need, even glass. Think of them as a time
machine. They have their own lab.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browline_glasses](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browline_glasses)

 _> Browline glasses were invented in 1947 by Jack Rohrbach, then vice-
president of Shuron Ltd., an eyeglass company. The first browlines – sold
under the "Ronsir" model name – were made out of interchangeable bridges,
eyewires, and "brows," allowing wearers to completely customize the size, fit,
and color of their glasses. At the time, most frame manufacturers offered a
limited number of colors and sizes, making browlines a unique means of
customizing one's personal appearance. The style quickly caught on in
popularity amongst eyeglass wearers, resulting in numerous other companies
releasing their own browline frames._

[http://shuron.com](http://shuron.com)

Today, few frame manufacturers offer the same style in multiple sizes.
Virtually none allow you to mix and match temple length, frame width, bridge,
etc.

------
notus
The bridge of my nose is shaped weird apparently and it makes most glasses not
fit very well, they tend to slide down all the time. I've gone to different
places and perplexed the people there trying to help me find something that
fit properly. They said everything sits too far off my face. I dunno what to
do but push my glasses up. I basically cant buy any of the cheap online
options though because they never fit.

~~~
walterbell
Cheap ($10): [https://www.amazon.com/GMS-Optical-Comfortable-Silicone-
Anti...](https://www.amazon.com/GMS-Optical-Comfortable-Silicone-Anti-
slip/dp/B00DUWLIEM/)

Expensive (several $100): This company does a 3D scan of your facial
structure, then your local provider designs a frame according to your anatomy
and style/material/color preference. The frame design is then custom made, not
3D printed, [https://3dna-eyewear.org](https://3dna-eyewear.org)

~~~
notus
I wouldn't mind shelling out for the 3D scan if the product is good.
Unfortunately I'm having trouble finding anything out about the company like
reviews or pricing. Their website is very sparse as well.

------
sswezey
The article mentions Warby Parker was started to combat these insane prices.
NPR's How I Built This talks about the origins of Warby Parker in this
podcast:

[https://www.npr.org/2018/03/26/586048422/warby-parker-
dave-g...](https://www.npr.org/2018/03/26/586048422/warby-parker-dave-gilboa-
neil-blumenthal)

------
grawprog
My girlfriend's worked in the eyecare industry for over 10 years now in just
about every aspect of the industry. Cheap lenscrafter type places, respectable
optometrists, opthamologists and the factories where they make glasses.

Just about everything is bullshit. The expensive brand name frames come from
the same place as the cheap ones and cost the same, around $5-$10 for the
store to purchase. Frames are marked up typically 200-300%.

Stuff like anti-reflective coating should not be charged extra. Most lenses
are made from plastic with this built in.

Also, lenses take about 30 minutes to make on small CNC routers, which many
places have in house and are usually made by the opticians working there in
those cases.

While working for some of the shadier places, my girlfriend was told to
straight up lie to customers(not patients....they don't think of the people
that come in as patients) about what they needed to get them to spend more.

My recommendation would be to avoid opticians and chain type optometrists,
they just want your money and they have no problem lying to get it.

The whole industry is ridiculously corrupt.

------
kough
I just bought my first pair of glasses from the eye doctor – previously been
using EyeBuyDirect. There's no difference in quality but they cost literally
10x ($250 vs. $25). I guess it's nice to be able to try them on in person and
have a nice woman tell me I look good in them, but that's the only appreciable
difference in the entire process.

~~~
wccrawford
In my experience, the legs on the cheap glasses online are rarely as long as
they should be. That means the bend in the leg sits just forward of my ear.

The practical difference in negligible, though. They feel just fine, and they
don't fall off or anything.

So yeah, I buy all my glasses online, and have been for years.

~~~
moftz
Most of the time you can adjust this with a heat gun. I've seen the guy in
target optical do it at his desk.

~~~
wccrawford
They're metal legs with a plastic coating that was molded, in my case. Can't
really bend them or reshape them.

And for the plastic ones, it would mean the ends of the legs would be rather
short, leaving them to sit funny on the desk when open and possibly more
likely to fall off if you lean forward.

------
rahimnathwani
I don't understand the difficulty here, at least for people with ordinary
single-vision prescriptions.

10 years ago I was buying glasses mail-order from optical4less in Hong Kong:
58 USD for two pairs including single-vision lenses and shipping to anywhere
in the world.

In the UK, places like speckyfoureyes are even cheaper, and have a wide
selection of frames.

Both of these places show extensive details of frame measurements, which
should allow you to choose frames that suit your face, unless it's your first
time buying glasses ever (unlikely if you're an adult, as most of us develop
issues earlier).

Sure, if you need to have name-brand frames or want a very specific fashion
statement, maybe there's only one brand that will work for you.

But the fact that a particular person is satisfied only by a particular
handbag costing $10k does not mean that 'handbags are so expensive'. Because
most people can be satisfied with a handbag that costs 99% less than that.

------
droithomme
Glasses are expensive if you choose to pay a lot.

I get super cheap yet fashionable and long lasting glasses at the WalMart
optician's office. WalMart does a better job than the private practice guy I
saw for years. I get lenses with all the extras and it's still cheap. They
also give me the prescription rather than fuss about it.

If anyone is still paying $200 and up for glasses it's because they choose to
do so. The market works.

Same goes for generic drugs. Most things a month supply is $4 at WalMart. Some
people prefer to go to a small pharmacy, use insurance, and end up with a $20
copay for the same drug. That is their choice to do so but they should not
complain.

Likewise with the MRI cost crisis. You can get an MRI and the reading for
$250-$500 depending on what state you are in. People paying $10,000 are
choosing to pay that. Excepting cases where they are unconscious of course.

------
sct202
One of my co-workers always had a new pair of well fitted glasses on every
week, and I found out she was buying them online for like $20-$40 a pair. At
first I was apprehensive about the fit and quality of the glasses, but after
buying a few test pairs they really are just like the store brands.

~~~
owlninja
Link?

~~~
VoiceOfWisdom
[https://www.zennioptical.com/](https://www.zennioptical.com/) is what my wife
uses. She pays for all the special coatings, anti glare, anti oil. Ends up
being about 50$ a pair. She loves them, and I think they look cute.

------
sshanky
So far I think the best value, even better than Costco, is Sam's Club. Bring
them frames and they will trace them and measure your PD, then make you a pair
of single vision Pentax lenses with AR coating, for less than $40. Add $60 and
you have polarized sunglasses. This is for CR39 plastic which is optically
superior to polycarbonate/high index lenses. There is also a great warranty,
since Sam's Club will let you return anything practically any time.

You can find most frames for a few bucks on eBay, including popular brands
like Ray Ban.

I have bought quite a few pair so far and am super satisfied, especially with
the optical quality, compared to the competition's "HD" stuff.

------
glaberficken
Relevant previous discussion: [1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380)

I live in Portugal and I have needed prescription glasses since i was a child
(I'm now in my 40s). I have always felt frames particularly are priced in a
cartel like way. Of course for lenses there is more of a justification
depending on the thickness/prescription (it is harder to make a more curved
lens that is thinner and lighter).

In frames they try to get you to go for the branded style (Hugo Boss, Gucci
whatever...) This is discussed extensively in the above article. [1] In lenses
they try to sell you add on treatments (Anti-reflex, UV coatings, etc) In my
experience some of these coatings end up shortening the lifespan of the lens
as they create a surface that is easier to scratch.

I think local opticians take advantage of the fact that people's face
dimensions vary so much and that people need to try on tens of options before
they find one that is both comfortable and good looking.

Given the low prices for frames practiced by some online stores
([https://www.zennioptical.com/](https://www.zennioptical.com/) for example)
I'm very tempted to even buy the frames online and then going into the local
opticians to get them to make and fit the lenses. I'm pretty sure they will
try their best to scam me into some overcharge if I do that though...

~~~
mrob
>they try to sell you add on treatments (Anti-reflex, UV coatings, etc) In my
experience some of these coatings end up shortening the lifespan of the lens
as they create a surface that is easier to scratch.

In my opinion, the best material for lenses is the cheapest: plain uncoated
CR-39. It has the best Abbe number of any common material (lowest chromatic
aberration), and good scratch resistance. I clean mine using a microfiber
cloth (carefully pre-washed to remove any grit), hot water, and dish-washing
detergent. This leaves them clean enough that water will "sheet" off them,
leaving them visually flawless. I find dirt on the lens more annoying than
reflections, so I'd rather have uncoated lenses than coated ones that won't
survive aggressive cleaning.

I'd recommend CR-39 even for moderately high prescriptions. Weight of lenses
increases super-linearly with size, and glasses inherently have bad off-axis
performance, so there's little point wearing huge glasses where index of
refraction makes a big difference. The low index of refraction of CR-39 also
reduces reflections, which is important when you're omitting anti-reflective
coatings. It's also worth considering that all glasses designs are trading
optical performance for convenience; for maximum optical performance you need
contact lenses.

~~~
glaberficken
Wow, cannot upvote this comment enough. Super helpfull, thanks! Definetely
going to go with uncoated lenses. Will the opticians even know what I'm
talking about when I ask for CR39? I have one concern though I'm - 6 Dioptre
on each eye. so lens weight has always been an issue for me. even a few grams
extra make a big difference. I always go for rectangular low profile lenses
with the greatest thickness reduction they can apply and they always advise
for Polycarbonate lenses.

What's your take on this?

~~~
mrob
All glasses are a compromise in some way, so you have to decide which flaws
are most tolerable to you. -6 is strong enough correction that I'd seriously
consider contact lenses if I needed it. Contact lenses avoid the image
distortion and shrinkage you get with glasses, and because they move with your
eyes, the image is sharp in all parts of your field of vision.

Polycarbonate is IMO a terrible material for corrective lenses. It has very
bad Abbe number, so you get a lot of chromatic aberration (rainbow artifacts)
and it's very soft, so coating is pretty much required. Its only real virtue
is impact resistance, which is important in safety glasses, but you can get
flat safety glasses that fit over your corrective glasses. The weight is
marginally better than CR-39, but not enough to make up for the poor optical
performance. I haven't seen it person, but going by the numbers, Trivex seems
superior.

Wikipedia has some information on common materials:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_lens#Lens_materials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_lens#Lens_materials)

My preference for uncoated applies only to CR-39. Other materials have
properties that make coatings more important. It's also possible that some
coatings have much better resistance to cleaning than others. Unfortunately,
details about coatings are generally secret, so there's no way to evaluate
them.

~~~
glaberficken
I see, thanks for the advice again I will read more about it. Yeah i wear
daily contacts for beach / swimming days, but unfortunately never managed to
get used to wearing contacts as primary everyday correction.

------
PeanutNore
I recommend finding an independent eye practice - independent ophthalmology
practices are common and likely to also have optometrists on staff - and
getting a printed prescription from your exam. This lets you sidestep the
Luxottica monopoly completely when you take your prescription to an online
vendor like 39dollarglasses.com. You can easily get two pairs of glasses with
the full suite of antireflective coatings for less than the copay you'd pay
buying glasses at retail with insurance.

------
fgandiya
Expensive glasses are expensive. There are online retailers where you can get
glasses for $20 (not sure about more complicated prescriptions).

I go to this place where I can get a $50 eye test before buying them online.
Only issue is that the people who do the eye tests leave out the PD number
which is kinda important. If you ask them for it, they'll tell you to do it
yourself or buy glasses from them. You can measure it yourself instead.

------
evarady
I'm Eric, the founder of Topology Eyewear. We agree that "stock" eyewear
(a.k.a. off-the-shelf eyewear) is overpriced. Worst than overpriced, it
doesn't fit you very well, because it wasn't made for you! Everyone is
different, so we have figured out how to make every one of our glasses
different: 100% custom made to fit each individual, like a custom suit; made
from the same luxury Italian acetate (plastic) and full-hard stainless steel
you'd expect from a high-end frame. And our optics are BETTER than you'd get
from your doctor, b/c we compensate for 3D position of wear. And it's all done
via an iPhone app using 3D face scanning. Check it out at
[http://www.topologyeyewear.com](http://www.topologyeyewear.com) or on the App
Store at [http://bit.ly/topologyapp](http://bit.ly/topologyapp) I'm happy to
answer here any optical or technical questions anyone has - just hit reply!

~~~
sreekar545
I know doing the same for android is tough. But any plans to make an app for
android?

~~~
evarady
Yes an Android version is on our roadmap, but honestly it will be quite a
while. It isn't just the depth sensor, but also the ability to know for each
phone model the intrinsic calibration of the sensor, the GPU, the IMU, and the
screen size. We're doing real-time rendering and some very heavy computation
at 60fps, which really does leverage tight software/hardware integration iOS
and Apple hardware provides. That being said, if you are excited about what
we're doing and the only think holding you back is the phone you choose to
carry in your pocket, contact me or anyone on my team via the website and
we'll be happy to give you a discount for the inconvenience of having to
borrow a friend's iPhone.

------
jacekm
Interesting how much prices can vary between countries. I just googled for the
prices in several stores here in Poland and it seems you can get the most
basic frames and lenses for about $20. You can get a very decent pair for
~$100. Many companies here have to reimburse you a pair up to ~$130 every 2-3
years and this is the only time when you need prescription from doctor,
otherwise you don't need it.

RayBan, Armani, etc. cost a lot, but I never seriously considered them.

I got my current pair over 15 years ago. Back then I think they must have
costed over $200 but only because I have asked for (at that time) fancy
lenses. This was expensive but considering how long they lasted and how much
they survived I consider them one of the best purchases ever. I have couple of
other glasses (reimbursed by my company, i.e. free) which I wear every now and
then but I stick to the old pair simply because I am used to them.

------
littlecosmic
I’ve managed a few eyewear stores in Australia and it is important to not
forget that the dispensing, fitting and quality checking of eyewear is time
consuming if you don’t want to half-arse it. I’ve never worked in the very
high end stores, but whoever is rolling in money, it wasn’t us.

------
mnm1
> Because no one is doing anything to prevent a near-monopolistic,
> $100-billion industry from shamelessly abusing its market power.

> However, as with prescription drugs, government officials are content to
> pretend that “the market” will protect patients.

So the same old story from pretty much every other sector of the economy.
America loves its monopolies and oligopolies and does everything in its power
to promote their creation, including spreading bullshit about the how the
market will make everything and everyone perfect forever and ever and grant
everyone eternal life. Or however else they choose to describe the complete
and utter chaos that is markets. It's amazing what getting even a small
percentage of the population to believe in one's delusions will achieve.

------
dang
There have been quite a few large threads on this over the years.

2018:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17061380)

2017:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15736573](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15736573)

2016:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13091936](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13091936)

2015:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9183464](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9183464)

2013:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6718224](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6718224)

------
40acres
I signed up for an HDHP and HSA when I got my first job because I wanted
didn't want a premium deducted from my paycheck (young and short-sighted),
turns out it was one of the best decisions I've made financially.

I'm healthy so I haven't had many medical expenses at all, but I've been able
to amass a decent health emergency fund through my HSA and "splurge" on
certain qualified medical expenses. For instance I got a pair of relatively
expensive superscription glasses over the summer paid for through my HSA.

I know it's not for everyone, and I'd really like Congress to make an HSA more
appealing to lower and middle income folks, but I think an HSA is a solid way
to plan for medical expensive if you're in the right demographic.

~~~
driverdan
While an HSA is good this is completely unrelated to the topic. You still
overpaid for expensive glasses.

------
kalehrishi
In India you could get good quality glasses ~15$ to 40$

------
andrewbinstock
Surprised not to see mention of 39dollarglasses in this article or the
comments. They've been great in my limited experience (two pairs of glasses)

[1] [https://www.39dollarglasses.com/](https://www.39dollarglasses.com/)

~~~
me2i81
I have been using 39dollarglasses for quite a few years, good service, and
I've gotten quite a few unsolicited compliments on the frames.

------
PinkMilkshake
There is a company in Sydney, Australia called Dresden that make cheap
recyclable plastic glasses. The prices range from AU$49-$99 (US$35-$70)
depending on how thin you want your lenses.

They keep costs down by producing a single, neutral, yet attractive style. You
can have just about any color you want and a choice between four sizes.

An engineering friend of mine was helping them improve the recycling process.
Once you are done with the glasses, you take them back to Dresden, they grind
them down and reuse the plastic in new frames. I'm not sure if they recycle
lenses.

[https://dresden.vision/](https://dresden.vision/)

------
rconti
Ironically, I pay even more to avoid Luxottica.

VSP encourages me to buy "preferred" brands with even larger frame discounts
if I go with one of these generic "designer" companies.

Instead, I pay even more to get glasses I actually like; all-carbon-fiber
frames from Bellinger in Denmark.

I pay an extra dollar or two a month in order to qualify for new frames every
year; that money more than pays for itself when I get 20% off $600-$800+
frames.

As a guy, my glasses are about the only fashion accessory I have, so it's
worth it to me. But if it's not worth it to you, Costco will happily sell you
cheap glasses, as will the various online retailers.

As usual, don't trust what the industry wants to tell you you have to buy.

------
SomeHacker44
I have been buying glasses from Goggles4U for a decade or so here in the USA.
I enter my prescription plus my PD. I get very good glasses for $20-40 all in.
Recently I moved to progressives which actually cost a bit more ($20-40).

For comparison, last year my wife added me to her VSP. For $200 + $500 paid by
VSP from a pocal optometrist/eyewear store I got glasses that might be a tad
more stylish, but the progressive prescription is worse - fewer areas are in
focus. What a joke.

Always buy online. At these prices you can trade a movie night out for a set
of spare glasses. I have single focus distance, reading, sunglasses and
progressives for about the price of the copay on a VSP.

------
legohorizons
The glasses industry is so structurally bundled and unsound that a disruptor
like Warby Parker was able to come in and build a billion dollar business in a
matter of years.

Hearing aids are similar as mentioned on the thread.

Wondering what other industries have these structurally integrated industries
where a disruptor could deliver a tremendous amount of value with insider
Knowledge or reintegrating a supply chain. I believe an original Warby team
member worked in the eyewear industry.

I have a feeling things like Car Dealerships are next. You fundamentally have
to be able to drive massive value to consumers by making a one time purchase
expneisve good cheaper with an innovative business model.

------
dave_pascua
Last year, I went to a JINS store in Tokyo Japan.

They gave me an eye exam and, in less than an hour, had made my prescription
reading glasses (with AR coating). Total cost was less than $90 USD.

And I don't speak Japanese - I know less than a dozen words.

JINS has stores in California.

------
throwawaymath
It would also be nice to not need a prescription for contact lenses in the
United States.

~~~
LastZactionHero
Second! My prescription hasn't changed in 10 years, do I really need to keep
going through this?

And recently, it seems like all the optometrists have started tacking on a $40
"contact fitting fee" that technically isn't part of the insurance-covered
exam.

------
joshe
Here's a great example of the crazy markup. I use these $7 sunglasses for
biking:

3M Virtua Glasses Gray Lens,
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006PJHM6/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006PJHM6/)

And these clear $5 ones for wind while biking when it's dark:

3M Virtua Clear Lens,
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00166OALC/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00166OALC/)

Both 3M and Amazon make a profit on these! 3M's cost of goods sold is probably
$1.25.

------
walterbell
Someone was asking about glass lenses. They are now mostly a premium product,
not many online suppliers.

[https://www.2020mag.com/article/a-dawn-for-glass-
lenses](https://www.2020mag.com/article/a-dawn-for-glass-lenses)

[https://www.eyeglasses.com/prescription-
lenses/glass/](https://www.eyeglasses.com/prescription-lenses/glass/)

[http://www.lensfactory.com/glass-lenses/](http://www.lensfactory.com/glass-
lenses/)

~~~
simonlc
Essilor used to make them but are closing most of their lines. They are just
not that in demand. They also take longer to make.

------
nmstoker
I hadn't thought of the cost, but the article does a good job of highlighting
that. What I _had_ noticed (in the UK at least) is how limiting the styles are
by not being modular: opticians stock an impressive array of glasses, but it's
incredible how inflexible it can be as countless times you find a pair that go
well but then find there's some random flourish that ruins it - were the
pieces modular (or better yet made to order by 3D printing) you'd get exactly
what you were after - and then maybe I could just about stomach the pricing!

------
Propen
Great "Adam Ruins Everything" episode about this:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY)

------
bdcravens
My wife was an optician for 15 years; she left the industry because of the
crazy retail sales environment (focus on sales and commission instead of
customer service)

She had the idea of being an independent optician, but not selling glasses.
Rather, offering services like adjustments, frame styling, measuring PD, etc,
to service the growing market seeking out glasses from places like Zenni and
Warby Parker.

Personally, I didn't think she'd find enough people willing to pay for those
services, but perhaps there's an opportunity there.

------
csomar
I was shopping for new glasses a few months ago. Unfortunately, not only
Luxottica brands where out of control expensive, pretty much all of their
offerings where low quality. I mean really shitty quality. The quality you'd
expect you get buying $5 glasses from shady fake crap stores.

I ended up buying La Coste frames. It was on a sales. Both the frame and the
glasses cost less than $100. I think it is a fair price and one that makes me
not think much about. But if I find cheaper frames, I have better use for that
money.

------
Glawen
I'm surprised that noone is blaming the health insurance and opticians for
these prices.

In France when we need glasses we have to get a presciption and we can choose
the glasses at the optician. The thing is that the optician will not give you
a price for a pair until you have given your health insurance details, which
allows him to know how much you will get reimbursed. And surprise surprise,
the pair of glasses you chose is coincidentally just 5€ cheaper than the max
limit paid by your insurance.

------
En_gr_Student
I feel that they steal the universe from me by making new prescriptions that
presume normal distribution in use-case, and because the new prescription
mandates new glasses.

I have heard that recycling of glasses is illegal. Isn't that like right-to-
repair broken for 18th century technology? It is because someone in politics
makes a lot of money from it. If someone were to dig out decent documentation
there, and make it public, then the problem could be and not just patched with
a band-aid.

------
renholder
Is this only a states thing or generally all of North America thing? An eye-
doctor's visit, prescription, and two pairs can be around 200 quid[0]
(adjusting for currency conversion).

[0] - [https://www.specsavers.se/glasogon/bag-
sok#sort=field_frame_...](https://www.specsavers.se/glasogon/bag-
sok#sort=field_frame_skus_field_price_including_std_lenses_amount_decimal_asc&order=asc&f%5Bgenders%5D=female,male)

------
itchyouch
About 20 years ago, while I was in highschool, my foreign student Korean
friend would get care packages and in them would be 3-4 pairs of glasses to
change it up depending on the occasion. Apparently, glasses run around $30,
even with an eye exam.

When I visited a couple years later, I could get glasses, even with thei
highest index for $30. Some places would charge 50-70 for frames + high index
lenses, but the big volume shops, you could get a bunch of pairs for cheap.

------
alexmorse
When I last wore glasses, I found zenni optical, and got my prescription for
$18, which would have been near $200 at a wal mart. They were great, and
lasted many years.

------
damon_c
I got Lasiks done last April. It was a very scary procedure but it worked. It
cost $3000. I have saved about $300 in glasses so far... assuming I wouldn't
have lost/crushed a pair.

My vision is now so good people say "wow you can read that (chalkboard
specials menu in restaurant etc.)?!"

Still when I was laying there with my corneas being sliced... I wasn't sure if
it was such a good idea!

~~~
ww520
Yeah, I got Lasik done 15 years ago at UCSF, where they trained
ophthalmologists. It costed around $6000, with insurance covered around $1000.
Best money I ever spent. The improvement to quality of life was incredible.
Still get 20/20 at left eye and right eye degraded slightly to 20/30.

------
landryraccoon
Just get lasik. I got it a couple years ago and I recommend it highly. Never
having to buy expensive glasses again is just icing on the cake.

------
billforsternz
This is very timely for me as I have an optometrist's appointment this
afternoon. My 3 year old prescription needs an update unfortunately. Three
years ago these glasses cost me $NZ1500 ($US1000). I do have"off the charts"
astigmatism and they're progressives as well. Does anyone here know if the
online options extend to extreme corner cases like this ?

------
exebook
I have ordered four pairs of -4 glasses from aliexpress ranging from 1 to 7 US
dollars, from four various sellers, some have arrived already and are
surprisingly good, lenses are great really. Maybe I'm lucky to have standard
distance between my eyes, but these super cheap glasses are just as good as
those I used to buy in a local clinic for 50-100 USD.

------
hourislate
This is an area where I feel like AI could one day give you a comprehensive
eye exam and even measure your face and head displaying a number of frames
that would suit you. Once you decide on color and style, they would then be 3D
Printed and the Lens could be ground while you wait. Perhaps just a tech to
assemble would be all that is required.

------
cyberferret
An optometrist friend of mine once told me decades ago about an 'in joke' they
had in the industry:

When you hand over a pair of glasses to a customer, you say "That will be
$200...".

If the customer doesn't blink, you continue "... for the frame, the lenses
cost an extra $200...".

If the customer still doesn't blink, you continue "... each.".

------
xivzgrev
People don’t buy glasses that often. A single pair can last a long time. So
even tho gross margins can be rich, the annual volume may not cover the fixed
cost of marketing, r&d, etc. and don’t forget the optician isn’t really making
money from the checkups, it’s the glasses and contacts.

------
asadkn
It seems like a perfect opportunity for someone to disrupt this market.

I have never spent more than $100 on prescription glasses ($20 for lens with
AR coating). I understand there's lack of information, otherwise people would
buy just them online but the convenience and trust factors might also be in
play.

------
jonplackett
I’ve been getting glasses from selectspecs.com for years now. I just buy 3
pairs for about £15 each and then swap them out when I break them (which
happens often due to clumbsiness). Quality is fine. Glasses are just made of
plastic. No reason they should be expensive as far as I can tell.

------
hema_n
“Eyeglass sales are becoming a very competitive market, with frames and lenses
available in a range of prices and quality levels,” Bajwa said. “Today’s
glasses aren’t the glasses of 20 years ago, and the price can reflect these
technological advances.”- This is exactly a true statement.!

------
superkuh
I can't really do online lenses because I'm at -10 diopter and special
techniques have to be used. But I always buy my frames online cheaply. Then I
take my frames to my local optometrist and have them cut lenses for the online
frames. It's cheap and quality.

------
elliotec
As a related aside - I got lasik surgery a couple years ago for $3000 on the
dot and it was easily in the top best life decisions I’ve ever made. Most
lasik practices I know of have low-no interest financing options that are
going to be cheaper long term than glasses.

------
aj7
One word- Walmart. The most durable frames and AR coatings I have ever bought.
The frames are a Chinese knockoff. This industry is completely automated and
relies on CNC automated finishing and batch costing. Walmart evidently made a
centralized investment.

------
tabtab
Do-it-yourself wooden frames: [https://www.instructables.com/id/Techniques-
for-Making-Woode...](https://www.instructables.com/id/Techniques-for-Making-
Wooden-Glasses-DIY/)

------
heyjudy
Because Luxottica is the DeBeers of glasses. Warby Parker, and IIRC Walmart,
are the major insurgents against them in the US. I thought Costco also was
after their business but it looks like they sell a great deal of Luxottica
product.

------
iRobbery
[http://www.luxottica.com/en](http://www.luxottica.com/en)

in NL there is a documentary about this company and how much of influence they
have on the market. Interesting, though if true, worrying

------
HeavyStorm
In Brazil the regulation states that you must have a prescription in order to
buy and it _must_ be no more than six months old.

So if you lose your glasses after as little as six months and can't find your
prescription, off to the doctor you go.

------
sigi45
I bought 40€ glasses online, send them back and got 200€ glasses at a normal
shop.

I see the issue that everyone should be able to get glasses as it is that
important but I will not compromise my eyesight quality because of a few
hundred bugs.

------
gkfasdfasdf
I wonder if there is a market for an iphone app that uses the Face ID sensors
to measure pupillary distance (PD). Last time I got an eye exam, the
optometrist would not share the PD measurement without purchasing frames as
well.

------
gist
How long before 'Jeff' gets into this industry? [1]

[1] Amazon of course is what I mean.

------
Friedduck
We’re fortunate enough to have a Warby Parker retail store nearby. $95 all-in
for glasses. This is 15-25% of what I’ve spent elsewhere.

It’s considerably more if you have progressive lenses. Nearly $300. Still far
off the norm.

------
jeffwilcox
I enjoyed the Adam Ruins Everything segment on Luxottica...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAeHuDcy_bY)

------
Kinnard
Brings to mind the advocacy of William Horatio Bates:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bates_method](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bates_method)

------
Markoff
one would think in free market US economy you will have tons if brands to
choose for each budget but the article imply opposite, is it really truth
there it's unregulated monopoly? can't you buy cheap glasses in supermarket
for few dollars or some event brands for let's say 50-200$ online? looks odd
from Europe

of course luxurious brands cost more, bit who is forcing people to buy
luxurious fashion brands? that doesn't sound like monopoly to me

------
deeg
Why aren't insurance companies putting pressure on the market to get more
inexpensive options? Is the overall savings (~$200 every few years) just not
worth it?

------
aurizon
I want to buy glass lenses, not plastic lanses. Plastic accumultes many fine
scratches over time from cloth etc. Which online supplier sells glass lenses?

------
sgjohnson
The answer: The Government.

In the UK you can grab a pair of decent frames for as little as £15 and and an
eye test for about £30 at most optics stores.

Single vision lenses £50 at the most.

------
crimsonalucard
Is the glasses industry heavily regulated? because if not, this is evidence
that free market forces tends towards monopolies and wealth inequality.

------
nickchuck
They're not tho...
[https://www.zennioptical.com/](https://www.zennioptical.com/)

------
fyjvd90
I would also like to know why it takes my HMO (Kaiser) 6 weeks to make lenses,
and why their invoices don’t list what products they sold you.

------
s_dev
I understand the Luxotica monopoly but everytime this comes up people
recommend some Japanese company -- I can't recall their name.

------
stunt
No surprise when there is no competition in the market. Companies are just
greedy and margins are high in almost everything these days.

------
Ice_cream_suit
Zenni's glasses start at $6 (lenses and frames included).

I usually splurge and spend around $15 a pair.

Glasses are cheap. Many consumers are hoodwinked by vendors.

------
ryanjodonnell
I bought 2 brand new pairs of glasses for $40 in China in 2014, including eye
exam. They've lasted me for the last 4 years.

------
AngryData
Ive been buying my contacts from Europe without a perscription for years now
because of the scam that is US healthcare industry.

------
amvalo
I've been meaning to bypass this racket for a while. Can anyone recommend a
good chinese/indian seller for eyeglasses?

~~~
ZhuanXia
39dollarglasses.com is what I use.

~~~
socalnate1
Same; I have several pairs from them and they have always been fine.

------
misiti3780
I just bought a pair of glasses of Warby Parker for 135 dollars. They will
last me multiple years - how is this expensive ?

------
t0mbstone
I have started buying my glasses from Costco. I was blown away by how cheap
they were there when compared to other places.

------
3chelon
I do wonder how easy it would be to complete automate eye tests. It seems to
me a robot could do the job very easily.

------
thomasjudge
So for average US optometrists, what % of the revenues and profits comes from
eyewear sales vs services (exams etc.)?

------
unixhero
They aren't expensive. There are stores like Specsavers that charge USD20 for
a pair of affordable glasses.

------
advertising
Retro Super Future is a great brand for sunglasses and optical. Stores in the
states and Europe, made in Italy.

------
sytelus
Just making list of industries where market forces have failed to give a way
to monopolies, at least in US:

\- Cable TV/Internet

\- Prescription glasses

\- Hearing aids

What else?

------
howlingfantods
Warby Parker is a good alternative to the Luxotica monopoly but I think even
their lenses are Essilor

------
nomadiccoder
Go for lasik. 4500 bucks in abq 0% over 2 years. Best thing ive ever done in
my life

------
throwaway415415
In France we have lunette pour tous and it's 10€ for a pair. It works wonders

------
otikik
I had lasik eye surgery 15 years ago and never looked back (pun intended).

------
pmarreck
Maybe that's because a single company controls 80% of the market:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7H-_8UkmFU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7H-_8UkmFU)

(it's an Adam Ruins Everything about the eyeglass industry)

------
firemelt
Anyone know cheap online glasses seller that shipping worldwide?

------
amelius
And why is optical/optomechanical lab equipment so expensive?

~~~
moftz
Probably because of the small market and the precision required in
manufacturing it.

------
partiallypro
A massive portion of the industry is owned by a single company.

------
cwaffler
You think glasses are expensive try hearing aids.

~~~
timbit42
Don't hearing aids have electronics and batteries in them? Glasses don't.

------
hate
I can hear Luxottica laughing in the distance

------
ChuckMcM
Obligatory manufacturing video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCH1SEYbrVA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCH1SEYbrVA)

I got a chance to do some due diligence on a company that was trying to
"print" lenses with an interesting sintering process. It was a creative idea
but I don't think it went anywhere useful. Dr. Strand at USC was researching
holographic lenses which was something I high hopes for.

------
pugworthy
Wow, did this post blow up or what.

------
buboard
anyone who spends excessively on glasses should consider a laser-correction

------
sabujp
why can't we just 3d print and laser cut these things already?

------
failrate
Use zenni. Cheap af.

------
a2dictator
Just buy glasses in / from India. The Indian government price protects most
prescriptions because otherwise the poor will be absolutely excluded from
them. So too with eye glasses. I bought mine in 2005 for the equivalent of $20
& they are running perfectly fine even now. I bought another pair in 2016 for
the equivalent of $55 & they are now my backup. Both prices are including
frames. My prescription had changed very little.

------
fxfan
I haven't tried this personally but I should plug endmyopia.org if for no
other reason than to give some more picture on the practices of this industry.

