
Encryptr – Free, open-source password manager and e-wallet - escapologybb
https://encryptr.org/
======
sarciszewski
[https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr/blob/64223f0cb4adba80c8...](https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr/blob/64223f0cb4adba80c8d89f23762bba0c8dc7fa3c/src/app.js#L285-L298)

I'm a bit concerned that their random number generator might produce biased
output. This is _usually_ a red flag that there are other issues in the code
that haven't been examined by a crypto person.

Just a word of caution from a casual glance. For all I know the rest of the
code is fine. For all I know, the rest of the code is clunky swiss cheese.

Further reading on biased RNGs, with a visual:
[https://stackoverflow.com/a/31374501/2224584](https://stackoverflow.com/a/31374501/2224584)

~~~
tptacek
There doesn't appear to be much crypto in this project; it's a small
application built on SpiderOak's Crypton.io. I'm not a fan of Crypton, but
it's not clownshoes crypto.

Just to be clear to everyone on the thread: it's very unlikely that there's
anything practical an attacker can do with the modulus bias in a situation
like this.

~~~
gingerlime
> I'm not a fan of Crypton

Just curious - is this to do with using javascript crypto[0]? or something
that goes beyond that?

[0] [https://www.nccgroup.trust/us/about-us/newsroom-and-
events/b...](https://www.nccgroup.trust/us/about-us/newsroom-and-
events/blog/2011/august/javascript-cryptography-considered-harmful/)

~~~
sarciszewski
JavaScript is only a real issue when you have an insecure code delivery
mechanism. The article spells that out pretty well.

~~~
gingerlime
Yes, I understand. I was wondering why tptacek wasn't a fan though, and the
only reason I could think of was that it might encourage this usage?? even
though it looks like they explicitly discourage this[0]. It's the first time I
hear of crypton.io - so just trying to learn more.

[0] [https://crypton.io/docs/](https://crypton.io/docs/)

------
lucasgonze
UX wins -

1\. Readable typography.

2\. Clean and simple flows.

3\. Dedicated forms for credit cards, passwords, and notes.

UX shortcomings -

1\. No way to tweak the password generator algorithm. This matters because
different contexts need different things. EG mobile passwords should avoid
special chars and be longer to tradeoff.

2\. No way to search. In any reasonably long lived password file you will be
unable to scroll through quickly enough.

3\. No importer(s) for legacy password manager files.

~~~
devgeeks
Also, both password gen configuration and (probably CSV) import/export are
coming as soon as I can get them in there.

------
hermanmerman
Does it support self-hosting of the server part? If I could deploy it to one
of my Digital Ocean servers easily, I could see it become my default (and
last) password manager. I'm too small a fish for a hacker to actually hunt my
own server, and even if they do... it's zero knowledge, so I think I'd be
comfortable with that.

Side question: does it support sharing of secured notes and credentials? even
to non-encryptr users?

~~~
vetrom
In theory, sure. Crypton.io itself is available on github and you could build
your own server.

On the Encryptr app side, src/app.js uses window.crypton.host and _.port to
specify the crypton endopint to connect to. I think the app store build of
encryptr uses a crypton endopint at devgeeks.org.

You could just use (apache) cordova to roll your own build of the android app
with app.js set to point to your preferred self-hosted endpoint.

YMMV.

Note: this is definitely a product at the MVP stage. The platform is capable
of implementing data sharing, but that is not currently used by the Encryptr
application.

~~~
daviddahl
Indeed, you can do this and we encourage it. We are also building a private
"feed" application called "Kloak", which resembles Twitter but is private and
"un-dataminable".

See: [https://zk.gs/ZK/kloak.pdf](https://zk.gs/ZK/kloak.pdf)

------
verandaguy
I'm cautiously optimistic about this, but won't be using it to manage
passwords for anything important -- yet.

On one hand they claim to be in league with SpiderOak (how, I'm not sure),
which surfaced after the Snowden leaks as a zero-knowledge encrypted
alternative to Dropbox/Google Drive.

On the other hand, it's a cloud-based solution which to me is still a cause
for caution, and I'd feel more reassured if someone (who knows JavaScript and
security better than I do) conducted an audit of this.

Hoping for the best for Encryptr, but I'll have to keep it on the sidelines
until it's more battle-tested.

~~~
sarciszewski
> On the other hand, it's a cloud-based solution which to me is still a cause
> for caution, and I'd feel more reassured if someone (who knows JavaScript
> and security better than I do) conducted an audit of this.

I can extend an offer to them on behalf of Paragon Initiative Enterprises and,
if it's accepted, post our findings on HN at a later date.

~~~
verandaguy
That'd probably help them out hugely regardless of the results. I'd be
interested in reading the findings if/when they're posted.

------
egeozcan
The site seems to be down. Here's the repo:
[https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr](https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr)

------
dbmikus
I like this for my password manager:
[http://www.passwordstore.org/](http://www.passwordstore.org/)

It's all UNIX based and takes advantage of GPG and Git for encryption and
versioning, respectively. Super lightweight, and there are various front-ends
for it, including an Android app.

It's not a cloud-based solution by default, but it wouldn't be hard to set it
up to git push to a central location on each update and to pull from that
location down to all your end-points.

~~~
ymse
It also supports multiple identities, so passwords can have different
recipients. Good if you don't want to share everything with your phone.

The best part is that the program itself is a ~500 line shell script:
[https://github.com/zx2c4/password-
store/blob/master/src/pass...](https://github.com/zx2c4/password-
store/blob/master/src/password-store.sh)

------
bitskits
Does Encryptr support 2FA? I don't see any mention on the landing page or on
Github.

EDIT: After more digging, it looks like it does not, but may in the future.
[https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr/issues/123](https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr/issues/123)

------
vanous
This looks like very nice, lightweight interface, great work! Hopefully it
will get browser support as per
[https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr/issues/169](https://github.com/devgeeks/Encryptr/issues/169)

------
newscracker
Two suggestions for the web page. First, please include the system
requirements for each platform under the platform names. That would make it
easier to decide whether to download the application or not.

Second, a nitpick - the OS on Mac computers is called "OS X" since the time of
OS X 10.7 Lion and not "Mac OS X". Please fix that. The name "Mac OS X" was
used only for older releases up to Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. :)

------
homakov
This is cool, will install it right now. Shameless plug: I work in the same
field but instead of storing passwords trying to replace passwords and 2fa
altogether with one scheme working as a web app: truefactor.io/app

~~~
tmd83
How does it work? Any info on that.

~~~
homakov
Nothing new, private keys are generated per account, the entire app will be in
appcache, and sync is done via simple API and encrypted with your passphrase
messages (same as crypton - zero knowledge). From the start you get 2 private
keys both stored in your browser on truefactor.io/app. Later if you you decide
to "2factorize" some website it can done with 1 click. To log in you need two
signatures so you have to click "approve" on both devices with a private key.

The integration flow for consumer websites is also very simple: 1 tiny JS lib
and 10-20 lines of code on the server side to verify 2 signatures against
public keys of the user.

Out of box fixes passwords reuse, phishing, bruteforce, 2factorization,
enforceable, open and free etc

------
Ruud-v-A
The site is using a startcom certificate … how ironic.

~~~
vetrom
How is StartCom as a cert provider ironic?

~~~
Ruud-v-A
It is a rogue CA that does not revoke compromised certificates even when
presented with a proof of such compromise, unless the customer pays a
revocation fee. If the customer does not pay the fee, StartCom provides trust
(which is what CAs do; they say “we guarantee to the best of our knowledge
that this server is the server it claims to be”) for websites which are known
(by StartCom) to be compromised, defeating the purpose of having CAs in the
first place.

After Heartbleed many certificates had to be revoked, and one person who did
not want to pay the revocation fee had the idea of publishing his private key
so that the certificate was compromised without doubt. StartCom refused to
revoke it, and the page that explained the story has since disappeared
mysteriously. The HN thread about it is here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7577290](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7577290)

~~~
devgeeks
Yeah, I haven't been happy with them. Luckily it's just the "marketing site"
that uses it, not the actual backend server.

------
wjyagainyc
Why don't everyone use Firefox sync, it is also zero-knowledge? I am not
provoking, just curious.

------
msh
Strange that there are no iOS client.

~~~
devgeeks
Warning: long answer ahead. Short version: there will be very soon. I use it
daily on my own iPhone.

The issue is that because Crypton does crypto with JavaScript in the web view
of a Cordova app, it needs to not be stupendously slow. The default iOS web
view available for Cordova apps, up until iOS 8, was the UIWebView which is
well known for not having access to a JIT (like Nitro in mobile Safari). This
means that JavaScript crypto (particularly done the way SJCL does it) is VERY
slow. We're talking almost two minutes just to log in. :/

However, even though iOS 8 now provides a web view with a JIT (WKWebView), it
has been slightly crippled by Apple. The WKWebView disallows loading local
files except from the app's tmp folder. This has meant some work for the
Cordova iOS team to get the WKWebView working. It is finally at a stage where
it can be used, but some of the changes Cordova had to make to get it working,
plus some differences in WKWebView's API, mean some changes had to be made to
both Crypton and Encryptr to get it all to work.

It's working now. However, since I will still have to dance through a few more
hoops of fire (Apple submission and other pain), I am planning on pushing out
a new version for the existing platforms first. Then I should be able to do
what needs to be done to get the iOS version out.

~~~
msh
Sounds great :)

If you need a beta tester please mail me (martindk at mailbox.org)

------
systemz
Cloud based and private? It's not how this works.

~~~
joeyspn
It works if what you upload is already encrypted, which is the case here...
Apparently it uses
[https://github.com/spideroak/crypton](https://github.com/spideroak/crypton)

~~~
systemz
It works as long as someone can't break encryption method.

~~~
joeyspn
Thanks captain obvious...

------
Nux
"Cloud-based. Private." ... Right.

~~~
feld
It's hard to trust a cloud-based password manager.

Now, if they're doing the crypto all local and syncing between devices with a
miniature version of SpiderOak that would be OK. This is basically what
1Password does -- local crypto and stored on Dropbox or iCloud. That's not
worrying at all as long as the crypto -- completely managed locally -- is
strong.

But if they're using, say, SSL and an API with your credentials to access the
encrypted cloud storage and _they_ have the key... this is bad.

~~~
dchest
It encrypts locally and sends encrypted data to "the cloud".

~~~
sarciszewski
That's a good model to adopt. It's also the "ubiquitous encryption" that has
James Comey crying like a baby.

I encourage more apps and services to adopt this model. Just, be careful when
you do. Definitely open source your code, and definitely get it audited by a
qualified team (e.g. NCC Group's crypto services).

~~~
dchest
I think SpiderOak commissioned an audit of the underlying framework,
Crypton... (googled) yep:
[https://crypton.io/docs/security/audits.html](https://crypton.io/docs/security/audits.html)

~~~
sarciszewski
Yep, this was mentioned above, and by Least Authority too. They do great work.

