
Homeless hackers head to Noisebridge for shelter - bifrost
http://kalw.org/post/homeless-hackers-head-noisebridge-shelter
======
cgag
There have been times I've wanted to read in the library at noisebridge, but
all the couches are just covered in people sleeping, it's pretty frustrating.
I feel for homeless people, but I don't think it should be noisebridge's
problem. I know I'm more tolerant than most and it discourages me from coming,
I'm sure there are many more who are driven away by it.

~~~
infinity0
"not my problem" might seem like a reasonable position to take, but you can
extend this argument and eventually conclude it's no-one's problem. or worse,
some magical "other party's" (welfare state?) problem. this "not my problem"
attitude is a big contribution to income inequality. it's "not my problem" to
try to develop basic living conditions in those slums, all I give a shit is
about this flashy shopping centre full of non-essentials!

not a very good long-term solution for a real problem. as the article says, a
more productive approach is to ask, "how do you hack San Francisco's
homelessness problem?"

~~~
cgag
I agree, but are you letting homeless people sleep in your house or in your
office? Letting them sleep at noisebridge doesn't do much to help the problem
in the large, and impairs it as a space to hang out and work on projects with
like minded people, which as far as I know is the idea behind noisebridge.

~~~
infinity0
letting them sleep won't help much, but kicking them out _without thinking
about trying to solve the issue in some other way_ just makes things worse.
then, you're just brushing dirt under the carpet.

a more sincere argument would be, "it's not my problem or noisebridge's
problem, but there ought to be _something_ to solve that problem, so let's
think about how to solve it - rather than simply stating 'it's not my problem'
and burying our heads in the sand".

~~~
cgag
I have thought about it and I still haven't cracked it. The best idea I've
heard is the whole basic income idea. I don't know what you want me to do
though.

------
ltcoleman
In my opinion, all hacker spaces, co-working spaces, etc. need somebody to be
the "bad cop". Building any size community requires members to participate.
Tech people in particular are generally less likely to want to cause
confrontation, but for the betterment of the community some policing is always
needed. It really goes back to respect. Respect the community, and it will
respect you back.

~~~
mcpherrinm
Definitely. Maybe Noisebridge is a cool place to be, but I hear stories like
this often enough and it really makes me never want to go there.

I've been to plenty of other spaces and it can be a cool scene, but
Noisebridge's reputation isn't good.

~~~
cgag
If you're in SF you should stop by sometime, it's still overall a cool place
to be, it's easy to get a distorted image of the place through the mailinglist
and news articles.

------
bifrost
For the record, this is sadly one of the reasons I don't hang out there more.
I can deal with bikeshedding and organizational issues, but the threat of
bedbugs/violence are not things I am super interested in.

I do go there specifically to meet up with people, and I do occasionally hang
out on the FreeNode IRC channel, but thats about it these days.

I still love the concept of Noisebridge and it needs to exist, but I am not
really a participant there right now.

------
varelse
I once went there for a meeting. It's easy to miss the place because it's in a
nondescript residential building in the middle of a somewhat iffy part of the
Mission district.

I arrived in the middle of a confrontation that almost turned violent. I can't
see how anyone could get work done in such a space but maybe I'm just an old
fogie. The experience made me really appreciate what I have.

~~~
derleth
> I arrived in the middle of a confrontation that almost turned violent.

Lemme guess: Lisp vs Haskell?

~~~
rbanffy
My favorite tribal thing will always be MSX vs Apple II...

Yes. I'm that old.

~~~
samstave
Slide rule vs vax!

~~~
zeckalpha
VAX? PDP.

~~~
varelse
Colossal Cave versus The Great Underground Empire?

Hurkle versus Mugwump versus Wumpus for the trifecta?

------
narrator
Three easy rules would solve everything:

1\. No TVs allowed on premise - Gets rid of slackers, stoners and people who
don't like to work.

2\. No alcohol - Gets rid of endless trouble and alcoholics.

3\. People must shower on a regular basis - Gets rid of the mentally ill.

~~~
j_baker
I'm inclined to say that hacker spaces should _have_ showers. That way there's
no excuse. Plus, it makes it easier to work out there as well.

------
Matti
"I'm about to explain to the people sleeping in the bunk beds that the bunk
beds are not for sleeping.

It is hard for me to type the above statement without laughing, but I
persevere."

[https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-
discuss/20...](https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-
discuss/2013-August/038854.html)

~~~
GuiA
Some context for people who are not familiar with Noisebridge: the bunk beds
are meant to provide a designated setting for napping.

[https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hacker_Stacker_Napping_Pods](https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Hacker_Stacker_Napping_Pods)

------
misuba
Housing strikes me as a pretty hackable problem. There's a lot of space
between "residential hotels," Extended Stay America, and Airbnb, and there's a
lot of potential especially in high-rent areas to come in under the cost of
studio apartments by a lot, but still not be hovels.

If Soylent can find a market, surely there's a market for housing for hackers.

(It sounds like this isn't really quite the problem Noisebridge faces, but
it's what it made me think of.)

~~~
cinquemb
This made wonder about the situation with a lot of houses that were foreclosed
on over the years that are off the market ("owned" by banks and left in
various conditions).

I wonder if someone could use the zillow api (or something in the open) in
someway to deduce spaces/homes where people could invoke adverse possession
and somehow work it into concepts of hackerspaces as far as funding and usage
is concerned (maybe with some support of local communities as far as outreach
and image is concerned), but with more lax requirements when it comes to
allowing people to habitate.

IANAL, so all the specifics of how it would work out are hazy to me.

~~~
varelse
Unless you are a real estate pro, it is utter folly to rent your house out in
SF due to the many provisions of the Ellis Act.

[http://www.sftu.org](http://www.sftu.org)

In here you will find so many overly tenant-friendly rules and rights that
unless you can afford a really great lawyer to help you navigate them, it's
easy for small time landlords to get screwed over hard. This probably means
you.

I'm sure these rules were all instituted for good reasons, but IMO they've
become an inane and insane entitlement

I witnessed their effect personally some years ago when one of the creators of
bittorrent invoked the Ellis Act on an ex-girlfriend of mine who wanted to
take the top floor of her house off the rental market. He nearly drove her to
bankruptcy.

I'm not saying this is what always happens, but just seeing it occur once is
more than enough to persuade one to never ever even consider being a landlord
there.

~~~
cinquemb
I'm not talking about renting at all. I'm talking about "anyone, including
corporations, the federal government, states, and municipal corporations, can
be an adverse possessor"[0], but in this case some entity (e.g. hackerspace
group ltd|org|corp|llc) that raises funds like traditional hackerspace groups
in order to pay property taxes on residential homes that are being claimed in
adverse possession.

This is just an idea I had in the moment though, but in my eyes, banks will
give the most push back, though I'm sure some kinda of deal could be made if
mutual ground can be found.

[0] [http://legal-
dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+posses...](http://legal-
dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adverse+possession)

------
amha
"And now they’re asking themselves a hard question: how do you hack San
Francisco's homelessness problem?"

------
hobs
I like that "I am just hacking this sandwich."

------
irunbackwards
There's a pretty large discussion going on about this on the Noisebridge
mailing list, just forwarded this link.

~~~
dkuntz2
Is it a public list? Can you post that link?

~~~
deleted_account
This may be the referenced thread:

[https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-
discuss/20...](https://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-
discuss/2013-August/038836.html)

------
SixTwo_BlackMan
The article is alarmist, hardly anyone shoots up in the space anymore.

[https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21#Di...](https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_05_21#DiscussionNotes)

------
yawnyawn
this is enough of an issue that someone started a 'rooster brigade' to wake
the sleepers up:

[https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Rooster_Brigade](https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Rooster_Brigade)

------
deckar01
If you can hack together some rent money, you can stay 2 blocks from
Noisebridge at 20mission. A lot of my roommates are "hacking" life at Burning
Man, but I might see if we can coordinate a Noisebridge group.

20mission.com

