
Facebook engineer Ashok Chandwaney quits with scathing letter - Kroeler
https://gizmodo.com/cheers-to-this-facebook-engineer-with-a-blazing-resigna-1844990093
======
wayne_skylar
We all walk around with our model of the world in our heads. When we see
something that reinforces our model we get a dopamine hit. "I knew I was
right!" Instead of Fox or MSNBC selecting stories for a target audience
facebook uses machine learning to find the perfect selection of stories to
keep you hooked.

Before Facebook had an algorithm you'd see peoples posts in chronological
order. The moment they altered that was where they began to influence
behavior.

I do think that facebook is in the position to do something about its negative
influence. And taking no action or saying "it's too hard to fix" is basically
being complicit. You don't get to profit off of this machine without being
responsible for its negative externalities. At least from a moral standpoint.

The solution? Stop the manipulation of what users see based on machine
learning. Users should see what their friends and groups post chronologically.
What would be the downside of that? I'd spend less time on facebook (an upside
if you ask me) and facebook would make less money.

~~~
stopachka
This is a very interesting solution: in effect _remove_ our interventions.

If done cautiously, it could be very effective.

Some of the counter to it could look like this:

a. "Addicting" can be another synonym for "something people want, despite
themselves", which means that it may not be up to Facebook:

    
    
      - If you remove sugar from snickers for example, it doesn't immediately follow that they will eat less sugar: they could just as well buy kit kats instead.
    
    

The interesting question could be: how can we remove the machine learning
intervention, while keeping engagement high?

~~~
sp332
I'd argue that engagement is the wrong metric. For example, when Microsoft
made the Windows Phone OS, they tried to keep interactions with the phone as
brief as possible. Palm, too, had a three-click-maximum rule for their UI
design.

If we can't think of a good metric that should apply to everyone, just give
users more control over what they see so they have a chance of figuring out
something for themselves.

~~~
stopachka
This issue lies in the example: why isn’t windows phone dominant today?

We may argue that engagement is the wrong metric, but ultimately what matters
is what customers will choose. If choosing between A and B, they choose the
more engaging one, you’re in a tough spot.

I agree with your alternative, but with a twist: in effect you need to come up
with something, that users will like _more_ then what they are doing now. More
customization could be an option, but this hasn’t proven to be true in the
market.

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emerged
This is literally just a political rant scribbled while slamming the door on
an ex-employer. Seems like Facebook has reduced it's bias by one engineer as a
result.

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thex10
Link to the actual letter:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/resignation-letter-
fr...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/resignation-letter-from-
facebook-engineer/0538edee-7487-4822-956a-e880c2024324/)

~~~
mellosouls
paywalled - is there an alternative link?

Edit: thanks for the readable links!

~~~
commoner
Direct PDF link: [https://context-
cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/do...](https://context-
cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/047ba7bc-
dc3c-4733-bd19-3f551eb0ee5a/note/8b6dd8e7-3c30-42b4-95c6-ef4c6659a34e.#page=1)

------
tmaly
It seems motivated by ad dollars. If a potential customer wants to sell
vitamins to someone with far right views, the platform needs those customers
to be active.

It needs them to provide signals so that it can identify who to show the ads
to. Its that simple. I met up with a friend who spends thousands a day on
Facebook ads.

I have only spend $20 a week at most before, but it was just for testing. I
had no idea how the latest system works. He opened my eyes to how valuable the
profiles of people are to Facebook.

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silverlake
Thailand forced FB to restrict access to a group criticizing the monarchy.
Should FB comply with governments that want to silence and lie to their
people? Should FB push for Western free speech ideals everywhere? I think FB
is in a no-win situation. There is no consistent policy that works globally.
All the discussion has been narrowly focused on the US, yet most FB users are
outside the US. What should the policy be in countries with oppressive
governments you don’t like?

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X6S1x6Okd1st
I was a little annoyed by the formatting so here is the md to html version:

[https://siasky.net/EAC6We3XQV511dL6QnW4i0v5P7nkXrZaqbturF9ft...](https://siasky.net/EAC6We3XQV511dL6QnW4i0v5P7nkXrZaqbturF9ftOekLA)

and the md:

[https://siasky.net/CAC3i72n4nno0lrq_gx_m3TanpTOgPFbIVolDUMRT...](https://siasky.net/CAC3i72n4nno0lrq_gx_m3TanpTOgPFbIVolDUMRTZQWJw)

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blastonico
Wow, vacancy at Facebook. I'll send my resume!

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totetsu
In Myanmar, Facebook has such a presence, that the word "facebook" was used in
place of the internet. Mobile providers gave preferential(unmetered) access to
facebook, so everyone uses it[0]. At the time of the ongoing genocide of the
Rohingya, __facebook had maybe one or two people who could speak the local
language __on staff..[1] Despite it being used by the whole country. The
government used FB extensively to spread messages of ethnic hate, about the
bad things Rohingya were doing.[2] I volunteered with some young Myanmar
students in Japan at the time. They were completely adamant that Muslims were
coming across the boarder and attacking Burmese people, and the government was
just sending soldiers for security. They also let politicians spread hate in
The Philippines (look up Maria Ressa 's years of work about this.[3])

We don't need Tech experts running platforms of social exchange, we need them
to be run by society experts..

[0] [https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/01/facebook-free-basics-
endin...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/01/facebook-free-basics-ending-
myanmar-internet-org/)

[1] [https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-
report/myanmar-...](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-
report/myanmar-facebook-hate/)

[2] [https://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/dangerous-speech-anti-
muslim-v...](https://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/dangerous-speech-anti-muslim-
violence-and-facebook-myanmar)

[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed7s4OL65IA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed7s4OL65IA)

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site-packages1
Here’s a link to the letter. I almost joined FB for a ridiculous sum of
money/equity and chose not to due to their participation in the proliferation
of right wing/white supremicist hate speech. Two years later I am glad to have
my position be vindicated by, inter alia, this letter.

[https://context-
cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/do...](https://context-
cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/047ba7bc-
dc3c-4733-bd19-3f551eb0ee5a/note/8b6dd8e7-3c30-42b4-95c6-ef4c6659a34e.#page=1)

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thundergolfer
Legal and free speech issues aside, on Twitter I’m subscribed to an account
that posts the ‘Top 10 most engaged articles/accounts on FB this week’ lists
and it’s just damning how dominant hateful far-m right content is.

I get the idea of joining Facebook to do excellent engineering work, but for
most at the company the outcome of all that excellent engineering is more
people spending more time engaging with ‘Obama is a secret Muslim’ and QAnon
type articles.

I hope Ashok finds good work at a quality company soon.

~~~
ianbicking
What's the Twitter account?

~~~
thundergolfer
It’s @FacebooksTop10 and it’s run by Kevin Roose who is a tech writer for NYT.
He focuses some of his time on how hate speech and conspiracy theories thrive
on Facebook, which is pretty interesting.

