
Why do we think cats are unfriendly? - evo_9
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191024-why-do-we-think-cats-are-unfriendly
======
PakG1
_The bad news for cats? They lack this muscle. As a result, cats’ stares can
look cold and unfriendly, and two cats staring at each other can often be a
prelude for fisticuffs. But a slow blinking stare – one that your cat probably
gives towards you from the other side of the room – is something else
entirely; it’s their way of expressing love. Even turning their heads to one
side isn’t necessarily disdain, but a sign of their relaxation._

When I rescued a street cat, the first thing I did was google how to take care
of it and understand it. This was many, many years ago. All this information
existed a long time ago, and so it's weird to me that people still think that
cats are unfriendly. Or are people knowledgeable, but media just likes to make
clickbait?

I'll forever trust that cats absolutely can be friendly. My cat would come and
sleep with me every night, often cuddle up in my lap, and my roommate told me
when I went on vacation, my cat would stay all day at the door every day
waiting for me to come back. Yeah, I once took care of a friend's cat that was
particularly unfriendly. That cat just had a difficult time bonding with
strangers. But just because some human being has difficulty interacting with
people (especially people on the autistic spectrum), I wouldn't label them
(and certainly not the entire human race) unfriendly. Those cats and those
humans just have something else going on in their lives and need a different
approach, that's all.

As a cat guy, these articles do annoy me. Show a cat love, the cat will
respond positively. Some cats are high-strung and need certain attention, but
that's true for people too. Even my friend's unfriendly cat eventually came
around, though it took weeks. Don't label the entire species.

~~~
rubicon33
> can be friendly

This has been my problem with cats. They are hit or miss. I've grown up with
cats and dogs and enjoyed both of their company. I never once had an
unfriendly/bad dog. At least half the cats I had were... "distant" to say the
least. Didn't really want attention, liked to be off on their own, etc.

Of course, the good ones are so great. A nice kitty is a really great thing
and if it weren't such a dice roll, I'd have cats now.

~~~
dsego
Two absolutely adorable and friendly kittens in my life, both got snatched,
probably by a neighborhood dog. Both times we were looking and calling out all
day. Even mom and dad were in tears. I don't think it's a good adaption for
cats to be friendly, at least for outdoor cats. The distant ones always got to
live longer (at least the females, tomcats tend to roam and disappear after a
few years).

~~~
rubicon33
Similar story myself. Had a really amazing cat growing up, the friendliest
little bugger... And so, so sweet.

Went missing one day, and we never saw her again. Everyone in my family was
heartbroken.

I can certainly understand and agree that for a cat being so aloof and
carefree probably isn't a great survival trait. Something got her, probably a
coyote.

I had another cat growing up that was far more distant. Didn't really like
being held / pet (but would endure it). She was a hunter. Regularly brought
back kills. She lived into old age, and died peacefully.

~~~
et2o
I had an outdoor cat growing up that lived to be 18. Spent about 1/2 his time
outdoors and 1/2 his time indoors. He occasionally would bring back live mice
or baby rabbits. So although he was self-sufficient in that aspect, when he
was inside he was the most affectionate cat imaginable. He'd come and nuzzle
his head into you and lay on your lap or chest until you petted him. He was
never super affectionate with the dogs, but he put up with them. Cats are very
complicated.

Once in his old age he didn't return for about a week; we thought he had died.
We put up posters for him around the neighborhood-it turns out that a family
who lived in a house several streets away had "adopted" him (this was before
RFID chipping). I still miss him.

~~~
spiralx
All cat owners seem to have owned more cats than they started out with :)

------
gerbilly
Cats seem unfriendly to us because they can't move their faces as much as
dogs. They can't make as many facial expressions.

Cats do show affection for each other and humans, but their body language is
more subtle.

EDIT: I also disagree that cats are asocial, as suggested by the article. They
clearly form bonds with each other and with humans.

~~~
crooked-v
For example, see this study: [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/science/cats-
humans-bondi...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/24/science/cats-humans-
bonding.html)

------
nerdjon
I have had cats my entire life (well maybe if I add up all of the time without
cats for various reasons it would add to a year... but close enough).

I can't tell you how often I will go to a friends place and they tell me the
cat hates people, and half an hour later they are in my lap sleeping, or
laying next to me.

A lot of people misunderstand how to act around cats. I see people chase them
around the house, jump right at them with all this energy, and then get upset
when they jump away that the cat is "mean". No... the cat just clearly does
not like what you are doing to them.

In my experience, you have to be slow. Let them come to you if they want, but
don't force it. Every cat is different though, and you can't treat them all
the same.

Have I met truly indifferent cats, of course. They exist and I will never deny
that they do. How much of that is based on people not knowing how to properly
socialize them as kittens is an open question for me though.

~~~
spiralx
> How much of that is based on people not knowing how to properly socialize
> them as kittens is an open question for me though.

A lot from what I've read and my experience, there's a critical period between
8 and 12 weeks where they need handling if they aren't always to be a bit wary
around people.

------
justboxing
My cats love me to death. I never force myself on them and never try to train
them to obey me, greet me etc.

We think cats are "unfriendly" because they do their own thing, and don't OBEY
people like Dogs. When an animals doesn't obey you and do your biding, you
think they are "unfriendly".

Cats are also not "reward" oriented like Dogs, i.e. you can't "train" a cat to
obey you and do your biding by giving it rewards like you can with Dogs.

~~~
dspillett
As the old comparison: Dogs excellent are for people who want to be worshipped
as Gods. Cats are for people who want to wake in the night to find a God sat
on their chest demanding a sacrifice.

Few people have seen much of my cat, because it takes her a bit of time to get
used to new people[†] and will scuttle off when they are around. But she is
quite attached to me. She misses me when I'm away for longer than usual and is
very fussy when I come back, despite having a full bowl of kibble all morning
she'll often wait until I come home at lunch and have me sit near her while
she eats, she plays with me like an excited kitten at times, etc. She is happy
to order the lodger around too when I'm away[‡], and will let her guard down
enough to play while she is there (though usually not enough to actually play
_with_ her). There are a few others she will come out and greet, though no
others she _really_ relaxes around.

[†] she was a rescue, though I don't think she was abused explicitly in her
first six months, just ignored (as she'd have never put up with kids, and her
age suggests she was a Christmas kitten) so she didn't learn that a fair
number of us humans are pretty decent, but we don't know for sure as she was
left outside the RSPCA in a box heavily pregnant.

[‡] apparently when I'm not there, the lodger gets woken up at 0730 sharp,
which is the time my alarms normally go off six days a week, and breakfast is
demanded, if I am there she usually sits with/on me purring, waiting
patiently, perhaps being fussed and/or massaging me, while I snooze the alarm
a few times.

------
carapace
Random cat thoughts:

They are more social at night, solitary during the day.

Three "modes" of hunting, related to three main kinds of prey, each cat can
have one, two, or all three:

Pounce/bite-neck: for mice and other ground prey. Some cats will pounce with
their paws, but if they're hunting for food they try to get a quick kill by
nipping the spine at the neck. I've heard, but I can't verify it, that the
cats' tooth lines up with the mice' neck vertebrae just right to snap it
instantly, when the pounce is good.

Leap/two-paw-grab: for birds/bats and other flying things (bugs). (Look up the
videos of the cat and owl that grew up together...) The cat will try to grab
the bird with both paws and then _land on it_ to pin it before bringing the
mouth to bear.

Reach-and-pull: For fish. Many cats ignore fish, but the single-paw reach-and-
pull maneuver is to hook fish on the claws and yank it out of the water onto
the land (thence to pounce/bite.)

------
sillysaurusx
I had two indoor outdoor cats.

It was cool. There’s something really neat about having a little creature you
can let outside and they’re smart enough to return to you and learn the
neighborhood.

It’s no longer ok to do that, and I’m not really recommending that anyone do
that. Feel free to tear into me for it (I get it). All I’m saying is that
there were interesting and unexpected aspects.

I attached a gps to my cats just to find out where they’d go. This was back in
2010 or so, before gps was very small. It was just small enough to put on
their collar without too much risk to them.

I ended up with a scatterplot of my cats’ favorite spots. It was the Midwest
in a relatively smallish suburb. Scuzzle was such a ham; it turns out he’d
made friends with a lot of the neighbors, and sometimes he’d stay out for a
couple days since people kept feeding him.

Eventually I started driving my car to meet him each night. I’d get pretty
close to him and yell out “Scuzzle!” And he’d mrowww from the shadows and run
up to meet me, then hop in the car like a dog. Eventually he started
recognizing my car, and me driving it. I know this because I’d often encounter
him observing my approach, and at a certain point you could see him go “oh,
it’s you.” He was always very aware of the roads.

Eventually a neighbor kidnapped him and took off the gps collar. I don’t think
the old lady understood it was a gps. We were walking around at night near his
last known location shouting “scuzzle!” And we were getting pretty frantic
since it had been days. But then we tried the last known location again and
shouted again, and we heard “mrowww!” The old lady had let him sit in her
sunporch, and the window (but not the screen) was open. So he heard us and we
heard him. I went up and thankfully the door was unlocked, so we got him out
of there without more hassle.

Showed up the next day with a picture of him on a flyer and asked her directly
“have you seen this cat?” The look on her face was kind of funny in hindsight.

Meh. It was an interesting experience. Life is like that sometimes. Don’t do
that; not worth the stress. But not a lot of people know that cats are smart
enough that they do learn a lot of our customs, like roads and where you live.

------
randomsearch
When approaching a new cat, I find it helps to be sat on the ground or
crouched, so you don’t tower over them. Don’t be too close. Then hold out your
hand and let them approach and sniff it, so they can identify you. I usually
click to get their attention. Then when you stroke them be gentle on their
head. Do not under any circumstances start with their belly or further down
their back, unless you like scratch marks.

I have a theory that cars like being stroked on the parts of their head that
they can’t lick themselves, so just above their eyes etc. Logically this also
means under their chin, but they had better trust you before you attempt that.

Have had very close relationships with cats - one that would meow on command
for me (without reinforcement training), come and find me in the countryside
if she wanted attention, curl up with me every evening, chew my hair; another
that sat on my shoulders like a parrot; but also one (male) cat that I was
never able to properly bond with - built like a panther and liable to bite me
for no clear reason.

------
IronWolve
Cat treats. I've used it to train my cat, she will run to the cat chair next
to my desk. Hop on it, roll around, and start the loudest purrs for some tasty
cat treats. I just shake the can, where ever she is hiding, I got instacat.

Shes smart though, I don't always give her a treat with a can shake, soon as
she runs to me. She will sit and wait for me to "remove" the lid before she
hops on the stool. But I figured that out, and just removed the lid, and I get
the look like "wtf", so I pet her a bunch, then give hear a treat, not before.

I even got her to roll on her back and let me pet the soft belly. But that
backfired, she now demands belly rubs, and will lay there while I'm on the
computer, expecting my hand on her.

And yes, lots of slow eye blinks, shes a happy puss.

Just gotta understand them.

------
LinuxBender
I believe there was a study done some time ago (I cant find the link) that
suggested cats perceive humans as large, dumb, docile cats.

~~~
xtracto
[https://www.bustle.com/p/cats-apparently-think-humans-are-
bi...](https://www.bustle.com/p/cats-apparently-think-humans-are-bigger-
clumsy-hairless-cats-so-thats-adorable-11768160)

The author is John Bradshaw and the book is Cat Sense

------
throwaway35784
I don't think cats are unfriendly at all. Just less understood.

~~~
smacktoward
Or more discerning. A dog will love anyone who crosses its path. If you want
that kind of affection from a cat, you just have to earn it.

~~~
throwaway35784
I've had to work pretty hard to get some dogs to trust and approach me. Some
cats, even on the street, a hi kitty is enough to get the most wonderful
figure 8 oflove around my legs.

------
virtualritz
Unlike a dog, you can never own a cat.

But as long as you treat it well it will always come back to you. :]

------
m0zg
Oh no, my cat is very friendly, but only when she gets hungry. She knows who
has access to Fancy Feast. Also, "from the other side of the room" probably
means the cat can only see the general outline of you if the room is large
enough - their eyesight acuity at a distance is pretty bad. They have broader
field of view, and higher sensitivity to motion though. Another misconception
is that cats and dogs don't see colors, but they do, just not the same way as
humans, and not as many.

------
kstenerud
With cats, you need to meet them halfway. I've never met a cat I couldn't bond
with, including a number of "lost causes", ferals, etc.

------
hestipod
Like most behavior in living things, cats are a product of their environment,
how they are treated, how their needs are met. Lots of people "do it wrong"
then blame the animal. The family I live with for a while longer went through
a dozen cats in 3 litters over the first year or so I was here as the
matriarch kept getting pregnant and they would never take her to the vet. Most
of the kittens disappeared quickly. They had to live in a garage and I assume
they were killed by wildlife in this rural place. I had enough and took the
eldest female kitten to get spayed and intended to take the mother next and
the others when of age but the mother and the remaining little ones ran off or
were killed as well and the one I had was the only one left. She is the best,
and really only good thing in my life now, and she is expressive and has clear
emotions and personality around me because I spend time with her and treat her
well. She isn't "allowed" in the house by them but when they are gone I bring
her in and she will curl up with me and purr away.

The family generally ignores her. They are "put food and water down once a
week" sort of people. One does the occasional petting when walking in or out
and it's convenient, and one person especially claims she is "mean" and hasn't
once gone out just to socialize with her. She isn't mean...she just doesn't
trust them. That's something many people don't seem to innately understand and
I don't get it. You have to build trust and be consistent in how you treat
life. If you treat them like things, shout, swat, or ignore them, it's you who
are unfriendly and wrong. In my opinion your true character comes out in how
you treat life you have power over. Whether a kitten, puppy, homeless person,
employee whatever. I do the best I can for her given the "rules" they set in
their house, but not being able to ensure her future as my life declines rips
my heart out. I know they won't take proper care of her and I see no future
where I have stability to protect her. I've tried to adopt her out before, but
they refused to allow it out of some weird ego driven feeling of insult they
are crap pet owners, which is a demonstrable fact. The thought of claiming she
ran off and sneaking her to someone has crossed my mindm but there are so many
homeless cats here its near impossible to find someone in short order. I put
in my will that I want them to rehome her and left some money toward it, but I
expect that to be ignored like all other requests are.

I know all of that may sound mental or ridiculous to some. My life is
collapsing and it brings out intense emotion and focus on what is truly
important. She has been a light for me. My family are "its just an
animal/tool/mouser" types. But to me she is a living thing that feels emotions
and pain and deserves a life. To me that's more important than some TV show or
Facebook argument or "I don't want hair on the carpet" or the new boat or
whatever other stupid egotistical material bullshit they think matters more
than making sure she is fed or not locked out of the garage. I am sure my own
situation magnifies my empathy, there but I wish people would consider what
really matters more often. Life matters more than things. I am going to go
feed her then bring her in now for a stealth cuddle session. She will probably
claw bloody "play" gashes in my hand today as a reward for talking her up ;)
The love scars are worn proudly. I need to start wearing some leather gloves
when I antagonize her.

------
starpilot
FYI the grey cat in the article is a British shorthair, a pedigree.

------
HNLurker2
Maybe it's because I've cut his testicles

~~~
stoobs
Normally you get a vet to do that...

------
apotatopot
I was recently bit on my ring finger by my indoor house cat. Unbeknownst to
me, people were messing with the poor guy all night during a party. I ended up
being near him when he freaked out and bit (I am glad it wasn't someone else).
Had to go to urgent care and was almost sent to the hospital for an IV drip
because my coffee made it seem like I had a fever when they took my oral temp.

The DR reported the bite to the state, who forced a home investigation and vet
checks on me. Even though it's no longer infected, my finger/hand still hurts
and I expect it to for a long time. The whole thing cost me time away from
work, prescriptions/medical stuff, and the cat's vet exam. 10/10 will never
own a cat again, especially if I had kids in the house.

~~~
notfromhere
Dogs would do the same thing

~~~
Ace17
I suggest you google for "cat bites vs dog bites".

~~~
arethuza
Having been hospitalised following a bite from one of our cats (caused by a
dog scaring him witless) I hadn't realised how dangerous their bites are - I
now know that if you get a proper deep bite from a cat _get medical
attention_.

~~~
spiralx
Cat bites are the strongest of any animal in terms of PSI because their teeth
are so sharp, and they're ambush predators that kill with a single bite. I
would totally go to hospital after a full-on bite from our cat.

~~~
apotatopot
Just in case, because of my experience, the cat bite doesn't have to be
powerful/severe or deep to require medical attention. Mine was on my finger
and quit bleeding after I washed it, but now I know I should've gone to urgent
care pretty much right away.

I've read a ton of stories lately about folks who barely bled/hurt and ended
up requiring surgery.

------
tuesdayrain
I'll never understand why anyone would want to own a cat, especially one that
frequently roams outdoors, when something like toxoplasmosis exists and
affects over 30% of the global population.

