

Ask HN: How to learn languages with non-Latin alphabets? - tsel

Hi, I've been trying to find a way to learn some Armenian and Georgian but so far attempts have failed already at beginning: the alphabet.<p>How did you learn non-latin alphabet? I'm quite certain there are many of you with skill in Japanese or Russian for example.<p>I'm also in lovely position of being non native English speaker, it makes things at least twice harder.<p>Any tips are warmly appreciated.
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fharper1961
I have learned the Persian alphabet in the last year or so. At first I avoided
learning it because it seemed like a daunting task.

But once I figured out that I'd be better off knowing the alphabet, it wasn't
hard at all. There are only a very limited number of symbols to learn after
all.

After that it's just practice, practice, practice.

Which leads me to highly recommend using a SRS (Spaced Repetition System);
think automated flash cards with an algorithm built to optimize the time you
spend reviewing. Anki is the open-source multi-platform and web SRS software I
use and recommend.

<http://ichi2.net/anki/>

~~~
rms
Using an SRS is a good idea. Here is a Wired article about the developer of
one such system.
[http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_woznia...](http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_wozniak?currentPage=all)

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pg
What makes it so hard is that you can't recognize words as words so easily.
You have to decode them letter by letter. I studied classical Arabic in
college, and at the end of a year I could only recognize a couple hundred
words as words.

I doubt there's any solution besides practice. Perhaps you could optimize
practice by making flashcards of the most common words and training yourself
to recognize them quickly.

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jdowdell
The alphabet is a separate problem from learning a language. I can "sorta"
learn it in a session, but then find I haven't retained it well. Two tricks:

1) Print out the alphabet and hang it in the bathroom, at eye level. But after
a time it becomes invisible.

2) Flash cards with words that contain the letters you know least. This is a
great way to burn things in across sessions. Write each word yourself, so
you'll be embarrassed when you can't remember it.

Computer programs like Rosetta Stone are useful for audio/visual testing of a
new language. I'm not sure how they handle the input of a strange language,
but Rosetta Stone helped me with Korea's Hangul even though I couldn't type
it.

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gommm
For languages that have a phonetic alphabet (like georgian, armenian, russian,
japanese hiragana and katakana, korean), I found the easiest way is to spend
one hour a day practicing for 1 or 2 months and then never ever use an
alternative transcription when you could use the native phonetic alphabet (or
it will take you that much longuer to really master it).

First start by some simple study of each letters pronunciation and use them in
simple words and use flash cards to remember.

Once you master that I recommend doing some dictation exercise, just listen to
a dialogue in the target language and start writing it, it's a great way to
improve your speed and fluency in the new alphabet... And fluency in an
alphabet is very important to help you with memorization of new word (once you
get past the decoding phase, I find it's much quicker to learn new words
written in the alphabet)

For ideograph (like japanese kanji, chinese hanzi and korean hanja), I find
that finding a book that teach you the ethymology of the character helps a lot
in learning by giving you context on why the character is used that way and
it's also very helpful to help master the differences between same characters
used in japanese and in chinese.

A good website to read on learning languages (despite the rather cheesy title)
is <http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html> The forum discussion is
rather interesting...

Good luck, and try to visit the country, it's still the quickest way to learn
the language

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giardini
In the end you've got to do what you did as a kid when learning the alphabet:
sit down, focus completely and repeatedly practice speaking and reading the
characters. It helps to take a nap after each learning session.

Once you can recognize and speak characters you move on to words and develop a
basic vocabulary. From there go to sentences.

And I've heard that ADD and ADHD drugs work well.

~~~
bemmu
Before I learned the alphabet the risk of wasting time on Reddit instead of
studying was significantly lower :-)

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pseingatl
I think it makes a difference if you want to learn a language like Russian, in
which there is a great wealth of written material, or Arabic, where there is
not. For Russian, you have to bite the bullet and learn the alphabet. However,
for Arabic (and Persian) another alternative has grown up in the past year:
Arabizi. Arabizi is the use of the Roman alphabet plus four numbers to
transcribe Arabic. It grew out of the need to send SMS messages on mobile
phones. It is read left to right, not right to left. Moreover, everyone can
read it. This means that if you need to write a street address, you can write
it in Arabizi and a cab driver can read it. You can memorize vocabulary as you
work on your spoken fluency in the language. A friend of mine told me that
Greek kids are using the Roman alphabet to send SMS's as well. Eventually, you
can work on the traditional alphabet, but for the beginner seeking to learn
Arabic, Arabizi is the way to go.

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jlc
Sorry, I don't have any specific tips. I studied Russian in college and didn't
find Cyrillic to be a barrier at all. I just learned the sounds and with a
week or two of practice, it seemed natural enough.

I've lost much of my Russian (such as it was) through disuse, but I can still
read the alphabet just fine.

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indiejade
When I started Uni, my language elective was Japanese. I changed majors, and
the school I eventually transferred to didn't offer it, but wowza, non-Latin
based alphabets are tough!

If you have a basic understanding of the Latin-based sentence structures, you
can use that to understand a foreign language: brush up on sentence
diagramming. Seriously. Subject, Verb, Object, Direct Object, Indirect Object,
Prepositional Phrases, etc. Learning the culturally-accepted syntax of a
language is really valuable. Once you start to recognize and understand
certain words, you'll be able to see how they fit into the larger sentence
structure overall.

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gruseom
This isn't the kind of tip you are asking about, but...

I studied several languages academically (by taking courses and/or studying
books). It finally dawned on me how utterly inefficient this is, and I will
never make that mistake again. Next time I want to learn a language I will
move to where it is spoken.

Among the many problems I expect this to make easier is that of an unfamiliar
alphabet. It wouldn't remain unfamiliar for long.

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Morieris
Take a class. I know that sounds like a cop-out answer, but personally I have
only been able to learn languages in a classroom setting. For me, classes in
Japanese and Spanish have proved effective, but self-taught German or Russian
via websites, books, or tapes just never worked.

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RiderOfGiraffes
I found this really useful ...

<http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/LearningLanguages.html?HN>

Works for me too, even with Cyrillic. I've not tried it with Japanese yet 8-)

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timf
I found it very helpful to study and learn ancient greek with a modified
alphabet song repeated (and written) ad nauseum... had to get the letters
burned in my mind before I could start learning anything. Learning an order
helped.

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vaksel
go get a Russian book, and crack open a dictionary...then go through it one
word at a time.

