
Self-Awareness for Introverts [pdf] - mpweiher
http://cliffc.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/AWarOfWords.pdf
======
ivanhoe
I'm sure some people react this way, but to me what he describes sounds more
like a trait of being over-emotional and a bit immature in dealing with the
stress, than being specifically introvert. I don't see how being extrovert
would change the situations described, except maybe that person would get into
a verbal fight-back to defend it's hurt ego? And that would surely make the
situation even worse. From my point of view (and I consider myself very
introvert) the only correct answer to someone telling you that you fucked up
something is to get over you ego, take the blame (if it's yours) and try to
fix the problem asap.

~~~
kmbriedis
And what if it is not your fault?

~~~
defertoreptar
One thing I learned from "Winning friends and influencing people" is that when
there's an argument, start by pointing out the things you agree with. "Yes,
there was a bug. Yes, a bug caused it to freeze at an inopportune time. I
agree that this was a terrible thing you went through."

Focusing on the "yes, I agree" areas helps you to connect with them and get on
the same side. From there, they will be much more willing to reciprocate by
listening to your side of things.

~~~
hamstergene
You are missing the point that in the moment one can not even remember what
they have planned to do in that situation.

~~~
defertoreptar
That's the gist of what the author was saying, and he also goes on to
recommend memorizing something in advance and then walking away. I too get
this "can't process verbal and emotional at the same time," but I have found
that I can at least be aware of "this is one of those challenging situations."
From there I can go through the motions of the "agree" strategy, and stumble
my way back to my feet from there.

Maybe it wouldn't work for the author, but I've found success with it.

------
gravity_123
>About an hour later I come up with the snappy comeback

> But I never figure it out “in the moment”

Nobody ever does. My attempt at solving this is to eliminate as much of the
"surprise!" moments as I can by delaying things. It doesn't work always, but I
have found saying no to things initially helps a lot. Somebody comes to bug
you, someone just wants to talk NOW, ask them for some time. More often than
not, we know what the other person would say. Think about it clearly and then
talk with them.

As this doesn't always works,one more technique is "let silence speak".
Instead of rambling about and saying things you would regret later, just stay
silent and ask for more time to think and talk later.

~~~
zasz
Yeah, seriously, this isn't some introvert/extrovert thing. Most people are
really bad at confrontation. I confronted an extrovert who owed me a couple
hundred bucks once, and he was most definitely, definitely "stun-locked." It
takes a pretty aggressive personality to think on their feet when faced with a
personal attack.

------
kasperni
Just for context:

Cliff Click
([https://twitter.com/cliff_click](https://twitter.com/cliff_click)), the
author of the presentation is probably one of the smartest and fastest talking
people around. He wrote the original Hotspot JVM and have done tons of
interesting work.

~~~
obl
right. his (1995) phd thesis is a classic for anyone interested in optimizing
compilers
[http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.17....](http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.17.8510&rep=rep1&type=pdf)

------
quinthar
I think salary notifications in general are a sign of the company compensating
in a fundamentally unfair way. Unless you are being hired to negotiate, paying
you based on your negotiation skills seems unfair. It's harder -- a lot harder
-- but I'd encourage the CEOs reading this to create a compensation scheme
that is "fair by design" and pays correctly without the need to negotiate.
Here's what we do, though I imagine there are likely even better ways
available: [https://blog.expensify.com/2016/06/17/expensifys-comp-
review...](https://blog.expensify.com/2016/06/17/expensifys-comp-review-
process/)

------
xab9
A very important part I think is "the fool was not me". It's important to not
to hear others and to take your time to analyze your thoughts (it's not an
introvert thing of course).

First you may want to experience your feelings (you feel hurt, vulnerable,
angry), but then try to understand what made you angry. Maybe you have an
inner need for contribution and the other person states that instead of
contributing, you made something terribly stupid (from his point of view) so
you feel hurt.

And then, think about the abusive manager in this case. what may he feel, what
may be his needs? Isn't is possible that he felt ashamed because he needed
stability, but that need was undermined during his presentation?

Most of these are in the presentation in a form or another, but in fact this
is a mediating thechnique by Marshall Rosenberg, called NVC. Anyway, take your
time. Don't be ashamed to look into your heart. This is easier said than done,
but it's possible to get better in it.

------
stapled_socks
It seems to me that this is not about introversion but instead about
insecurities or emotional issues.

~~~
ghgfhgfhn
I disagree. Introversion at it's core is about sensitivity to over
stimulation. This sensitivity to over stimulation is not something that you
can control, it's baked into the biology, into the neural connectivity of the
brain.

This means that something that is not very stimulating to you, can be
practically overwhelming to me.

It's not insecurity, it's not emotional issues. It's biology.

And turning it into something that sensitive people should be able to overcome
- turning it into a personal failing is _not_ helpful.

[https://www.psychologies.co.uk/self/revenge-of-the-
introvert...](https://www.psychologies.co.uk/self/revenge-of-the-
introverts.html)

~~~
vokep
introvert doesn't mean nearly autistic

Also, turning it into a personal failing is absolutely helpful. What isn't is
thinking that a personal failing is a _bad_ thing and not just a thing which
isn't as good as it can be.

------
going_to_800
Lol. Does this thing happen in real life and are there adults taking this crap
constantly in their work environment?

You don't need "comeback" words, you really just need to report this bullying
behavior immediately to who's in charge(if that's not your boss) or simply
quit for fucks sake.

~~~
collyw
Where does it say "constantly", it sounds like a one off.

Can people not take the occasional bit of criticism any more?

~~~
going_to_800
"Your crap is crap, get outta my sight"

So this doesn't offend you? If someone is able to talk with you like that at
your workplace that's really bad...constantly or not.

~~~
LandR
If someone says to me "your crap is crap, get outta my sight" then maybe I
need to evaluate if what i created is in fact actual "crap".

If it's not crap, then why the fuck do I care if someone else thinks it is. If
it isn't, then I can justify all the decisions that were made and why they
were made and why the result behaves as it does.

If i can't then that's a problem, and that problem is on me to fix. Why am I
making "crap" ?

Is this maybe an age thing? Is this a problem with young people needing to be
handled with kid gloves?

Never mind the fact that if someone can say to me "your crap is crap, get
outta my sight" then we obviously have an environment where I can tell that
person to go fuck themselves.

Jesus people have some self esteem / self confidence.

~~~
going_to_800
Oh man...this is cringey.

So it's nothing wrong when somebody is talking with you like that? Doesn't
give you a hint how much that person respects you? Maybe some of you guys here
are just used to be pushed around...but if that's ok with you, fine.

~~~
LandR
>> Doesn't give you a hint how much that person respects you?

SOmeone that talks to me (or anyone) like that, why should I want their
respect?

Shrug it off and ignore them, or tell them to fuck off.

They people aren't worth your time or any form of emotional investment. BUt
occasionally they might be right, yhou might have fucked up and I think it's
important, regardless of the delivery, to look at criticism objectively.

~~~
wilsonnb
It's not that you should want that specific persons respect, it's that you
should want a person who respects you instead of one who doesn't.

------
charisma123
I have struggled to work with similar issues in the past (especially the
initial part of the presentation) and appreciate the author addressing this.
More often than not I go back to the strategy of separating the opinions from
the person.

The separation of opinions from the person changes the dynamics in my head. I
still find it hard to work with people who don't do that separation.
Discussions with them can be tricky. If I am fortunate, I come out of the
discussion learning a lot with wider spectrum of things to consider. However
in some occasions I am just drained intellectually and emotionally with
opinions such as: I have done this before and just trust me.

I feel soft emotional skills are as much important as core intellectual
competency of a person. More study/awareness on this front is always welcome!

[Edit 1: Typos]

------
heavenlyblue
The person in question forgets that some people build their whole careers on
how to manage people and situations like that. You'll always be taken
advantage of by people like these until you finally learn that coming up with
a comeback is not really a creative problem, but rather a problem of military-
like training in communications.

In the rare scenario someone would come up to me this way, I would have
already been prepared by knowing what exact wrong things they themselves did
in the past (not because I am a horrible person, but because people did and
would take advantage of me this way in the past). I would directly retaliate
and then make sure the person in question learns this lesson for the rest of
our relationship. Rinse and repeat.

More importantly, the fact that the person in question can approach you this
way and in such a manner is already a good indicator of either you working
with someone who is an incredible idiot or there're some organisational
issues.

~~~
pdimitar
Took me a while to find your comment which I fully agree with.

Most managers are unwilling to deal with situations like that. They
immediately reduce the importance of it and try to (gently or not so gently)
coerce both sides to just get back to work.

It's kind of sad but also rather interesting to learn to deal with such
bullies quickly and efficiently.

(1) "Remember those 20 minutes of outage on production because you couldn't be
bothered to check for a nil, smartass? How about you get the fuck out of here
and let me finish this?"

(2) "If you never screwed up at work in your life then by all means, please
fire me. Right here and now. No? Then get the fuck away, my contract doesn't
include listening to people with anger issues. I can hand you a therapist bill
later if you really wanna talk. I take $150 an hour. Bye."

...are the rough formats I almost always use, depending on if I caught the
attacker making a mistake in the past or not. Bullies aren't ethical. They
don't care if they hurt you. Most of them actually _want_ to hurt you. And as
much as we want to believe in organizational systems, my experience has been
that 99% of managers simply don't care.

We must learn to defend ourselves. And yes that includes being aggressive
yourself. As a guy who was severely physically bullied as a teenager I can
tell you that bullies don't listen and respond to logic. They are hyenas: if
they sense you are weak they will push their attack even further. Only when
you show teeth and bite back _hard_ will they back off.

------
partycoder
This looks more like bullying.

If you have a team of whatever sport, and the goalkeeper fails to catch the
ball, you don't blame the goalkeeper. It's a team effort.

If the goalkeeper is busy catching balls is because the defense didn't work,
because the forwards' attack wasn't working, or because the coach strategy was
ineffective... etc. You get the idea.

Then, just like goals, bugs will always happen.

Unless you refused to do your job, or went against protocols/procedures, you
should not be treated this way.

What you do is try to understand what happened and try to make it better next
time.

~~~
ianhowson
Of course it's bullying. It's also a thing that happens in reality.

Imagine that it's a paying client. You can't go run to HR. You can't just say
"take your money and leave". It's not ideal, but yeah, you're going to have to
deal with this level of conflict and confrontation sometime in your life.
(Heaven forbid you go through divorce negotiations, like the author; "your
crap is crap" is probably the nicest thing you'd hear all day.)

You also assume that the attacker's words are rooted in fact. One strategy
that 'warriors' _intentionally_ use against others is to undermine them and
make them feel threatened. It works remarkably well against tech people
because we put so much importance on our skills.

It's uncool, but it happens. Better that you be prepared.

~~~
partycoder
> You also assume that the attacker's words are rooted in fact.

What if your boss says: "It's too cloudy today! It's your fault Ian, you
suck!"?

\- is it acceptable behavior?

\- is it a correct statement?

\- is it constructive? does it help solving a problem at all?

~~~
ianhowson
But that's exactly my point. With rational reflection you know that none of
those things are true. In the moment, the delivery is going to push you into a
threatened, emotional place.

Assuming that the attacker is correct and that it's your fault is not always
the right thing to do. Some attackers are malicious and will use your emotions
against you.

Power dynamics will not always permit you to appeal to a superior. Sometimes
you need to deal with a bully yourself.

~~~
partycoder
Right. But when that happens what needs to be fresh in your mind is the sole
idea that a person is put in charge of a team of people if they can coordinate
those people to collaborate towards a solution. If that is not happening
they're not doing their job... Meaning, it's their fault not yours.

More specifically, you need to be given actionable, specific feedback...
hopefully without noise or personal, emotional drama.

------
ghazak
Some of the described attacks would make me want to get the fuck out of
wherever they work.

Seems like some good advice though.

------
petecooper
>OP– [http://cliffc.org/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2018/05/AWarOfWord...](http://cliffc.org/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2018/05/AWarOfWords.pdf)

I'm getting a 404 on the current OP URL, but this works:

[http://cliffc.org/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2018/05/2018_AWarO...](http://cliffc.org/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2018/05/2018_AWarOfWords.pdf)

------
wpietri
I was initially put off by the format (slides with an aesthetic that is...
definitely not mine), but there's a lot of good material here.

------
z3t4
Don't analyze too much, just let it pour off. Ask if there's anything to be
learned, if no, then don't bother. In fight or flight it helps to control your
breath to get back brain control. Good advice about walking away, leave the
battle before you get more injuries. It might be awkward to walk out of a
meeting, but at least the other party will recognizing they did something
wrong. For the red people, it can help improving your relationship, spend more
time with them! It's no surprise that the green people are the ones you've
spent most time with. Good advice to be prepared, never get walked into a
room!

------
WCityMike
I know I'm late to the party, but as an FYI, it seems as if this presentation
is adapted from this:

[http://www.cliffc.org/blog/2017/07/30/introverts-
emotional-p...](http://www.cliffc.org/blog/2017/07/30/introverts-emotional-
processing-self-esteem-and-salary-negotiations/)

------
donpark
IMO it's not self-awareness that most people lack but lack of willingness to
self-control fueled by the notion that 'being natural' is a good thing.

Given that the will is there, the best way to influence your behavior is
mental modeling because how you see things will affect not only your mind but
your body and imagination is a way to see what you want to see.

Whether the model is correct or not doesn't matter. Half-believing it is
sufficient. That's how superstition works. Beware that models, not unlike
drugs, not only can but often do have side-effects.

------
johngalt
The following is stated with total compassion not criticism.

This reminds me of the fine grained steps that non-technical people will write
down when handling computer tasks. Every click and every menu mentioned. Even
down to describing what the icons look like. Then each step will be followed
with exacting caution. The interaction never becomes comfortable or natural.
Instead it stutters along from one step to the next. Like counting off steps
when dancing.

Whereas a skilled user will intuitively understand the UI cues. Even in an
unfamiliar situation, where they don't know what menu or setting they need,
they will move around trying things just to see what happens. The difference
between skilled and unskilled is not planning, or knowing an ever larger
number of correct steps. It's about a knowledge of the basics and a feeling of
safety in taking risks.

When I read this post I see someone not comfortable enough in their own skin.
Perhaps flagging people and making battle plans will help get him started, but
imho the goal should be to gain a level of comfort that you can act without
careful planning. That will allow you to avoid being 'stun locked'.

~~~
xupybd
I totally agree with you. I've seen this in people before and honestly would
like to understand more.

I have a friend who is very analytical but gets flustered by many social
situations and conflicts. When I ask him what's going on he explains he
doesn't understand how to act or what's going on. I've no idea how to help.
I've developed instincts, through experience, rather than calculated
responses. My instincts can be off and need adjustment over time but it's a
totally different way of reacting. Much less taxing on me emotionally than
what he goes through. I don't need to think I just need to practise. But this
doesn't seem to work for some people and I have no idea why?

I remember in my late teens and early twenties experiencing this but I just
grew out of it. How do you help someone develop interpersonal skills and
instincts?

~~~
amelius
Social anxiety is a real condition, and works at a subconscious level. In a
state of anxiety, the brain simply does not work optimally.

~~~
scruple
I deal with it on occasion, even though I'm normally 100% perfectly fine with
strangers, groups, etc... But, when I speak in public, and especially when the
focus is on me... It's so rough. No amount of practice, conditioning,
preparedness does any good when you try to talk and _literally_ nothing comes
out. I've found myself having to force speech and it _sounds_ forced in my
head. I've never had the presence of mind to ask a friend or colleague what it
sounds like to them, I'll have to try to remember to do that next time. I've
just always kind of dealt with it because it only happens infrequently that
I'm in those situations (1-2 times a year, maybe).

~~~
jm__87
That sounds normal to me. Getting over anxiety requires exposure and most
people aren't doing a lot of public speaking on a regular basis. Toastmasters
could help with that if it really bothers you.

------
quickthrower2
If this is happening to you, check the laws and guidelines about bullying at
work in your country / jurisdiction.

If the laws don't help, or you aren't up for that kind of fight, perhaps look
for another job and think about how you suss out if this will happen in the
next job. Perhaps get a job via a friend who can vouch.

------
xchip
This is about setting a standard, if the most sensitive persons set the
standard we are all in troubles (and the other way around)

The standard should be assertiveness.

------
baxtr
Good content but very hard to read due to the format

------
grosjona
Self awareness has two parts;

\- One's awareness of how they are perceived by other people.

\- One's awareness of their own feelings and emotions, irrespective of other
people.

Extroverts rank highly for the first point and poorly in the second point. For
introverts it's the opposite.

I don't think it makes sense to discuss self awareness if you don't separate
the two different types.

~~~
jm__87
I myself am somewhat introverted but feel I'm fairly high on both of those
points. I have a friend who is very extroverted who I would say also scores
well on both of those points but the main difference between him and I, he
just seems to do or say things without much thought beforehand and sometimes
comes to regret it later. I've always thought impulsivity may lead to more
extroverted people and inhibition to more introverted people.

~~~
grosjona
I think there are different levels and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people
who think that they have really good self awareness actually don't.

You need to be exposed to a lot of difficult and unusual situations in order
to learn about yourself. Also you need to be honest with yourself because most
people have a habit of post rationalizing their behaviour as a way to maintain
labels like "I'm a good person", "I'm a winner", "I'm smart", etc... People
who subconsciously try to assign labels to themselves usually don't have good
internal self awareness because labels are the product of external
advertising; it's an externalized/socialized way to think about yourself...

~~~
jm__87
Guess I'll have to take your word for it as I must be too self deluded to see
otherwise :).

Edit: I'd also like to add that as someone who meditates daily, I actually
disagree that being exposed to a lot of different situations is automatically
going to help you get to know yourself better. You can be exposed to all sorts
of situations and not be mindful of what is going on inside. Alternatively,
you can be doing something totally mundane like sitting and watching your
breath and come across new and interesting things going on in your own mind
that you had never noticed before. The difference is going to come from how
mindful you are.

------
gwbas1c
I find a lot of this has more to do with the organization and management than
the coder itself.

Taking a pre-production build to a customer and getting angry when it doesn't
work? That's an organizational problem, and the developer is justified in
getting angry at someone for doing that.

------
pithymaxim
This is super cool although one thing that I would do differently--after
running--is to grab a beer and act a little more casual. Alcohol can help you
relax if you're an occasional user, and there's the concern that you can make
events like this traumatic by calling them traumatic.

~~~
toxicFork
I don't think you should recommend this. Using alcohol (or xanax from the
other comment) to treat symptoms (e.g. to relax) can lead to having it as a
crutch. Additionally when you get rid of a symptom of a problem will mean you
will have less motivation to eliminate the root cause of problem in the first
place (e.g. if someone bullies you, it's easier to "just have a beer" rather
than report it or speak to them, or find out ways not to get traumatised in
the first place).

Using crutches like this can lead to psychological addiction, because if the
situation does not improve the person can too easily choose to "have more
beers".

Of course there's also the chemical addiction to alcohol which will be even
worse.

------
otabdeveloper1
An "introvert" is simply a person that gets tired from interacting with new
acquaintances, not refreshed. Introversion has nothing to do with whatever his
problems are.

~~~
ztjio
My first thought reading this was that it reminded me of the two people I know
with high functioning autism.

------
dofly
I haven't read all the frames, but I do know about what the author is talking
about in the first few frames. Usually, such attackers are very much
extroverted and thrive on attention. The way I deal with them is to simply
ignore them in every way. I make sure they realize I am avoiding them. Often
wear facial expression of contempt around them. Etc. This behavior really gets
to the core of such attackers, especially if they are female. After a while,
they do change their attitude and demeanor, but you can't go back to being
nice again just yet because these people will gladly relapse. They are roundly
defeated when _they_ start avoiding you. Just my experience.

------
xupybd
I'm not sure I understand what he means by emotional processing?

~~~
tbrownaw
Being to upset to think straight, I think.

------
eksemplar
I think these things are dangerous, and I think that guy needs a better work
environment. I manage people, I do a lot of personality profiling too, from
belbin to mbti and disc profiles to our own HR departments people tools, and
they are largely as useless as horoscopes at defining people.

Everyone is a bit of everything, and the point of realizing or learning things
about yourself, such as the fact that you’re more introverted than extroverted
isn’t to say “oh well, I guess I’m an introvert” and then define yourself
around that. The point is to figure out what your strengths and weaknesses are
so that you can work on bettering both.

That’s not what always happens though. Some people do these tests and learn
nothing about themselves or how to be themselves. They read that they are
introverted and then they google what that means, and then they start becoming
more and more like what their google results told them.

I see nothing in those slides that aren’t an exploitation of this.

Obviously you need safe spaces and concentration zones at a workplaces for
people who primarily use their brains. But are you seriously trying to tell me
that “extroverted” programmers don’t need places where they aren’t distracted?
I’d say people with more extroverted traits need those even more, as they get
distracted easier and are worse at setting up the “do not disturb” boundaries
by themselves. Obviously you need to manage people differently. Some people
won’t speak up as much and it’s import to make sure they feel heard, but even
people who speak up, might not feel heard or come up with a better “come back”
two hours later, and there needs to be room for all of that. Typically the how
depends a lot more on the day/situation than what their “personality profile”
is like.

~~~
foo101
> I think that guy needs a better work environment

How do you make this conclusion when you know nothing about the author's
current work environment?

Consider that what you see in the slides could be hypothetical examples or
examples inspired from someone else's life or from his previous work
environment. Also consider that some people, although aware that they need a
better work environment, are unable to find that better work environment in
near future. They need the skills and techniques to be able to deal with the
current work environment.

------
cerealbad
get your testosterone levels checked.

often problems that manifest themselves between human beings have an
underlying physical cause. take up a character building sport like BJJ where
it is difficult to cheat. this acclimates you to physical closeness and the
human touch (non-sexual intimacy, fellowship, brotherhood), strength and
dominance (power, abuse, corruption), technique and body mechanics (spatial
awareness, developing creativity), practice and repetition (dedication, art),
competition and individual effort (confidence, respect), teamwork and
collaboration (being human). sports teach children how to navigate and are
used to develop the mind and strengthen the body for life. they are miniature
wars with battles, leaders, and self discovery. if you did play sports as a
child maybe revisit that time and try to understand if something was getting
in the way of your learning.

expecting the world to change for you while remaining adamant about not
changing yourself is exactly where species meets extinction.

~~~
iopuy
I agree with the adoption of a sport. If BJJ is not quite up your alley may I
suggest running? 5k, 10k, half marathon, marathon... which ever you can see
yourself enjoying most. I've tried running, BJJ (blue belt), crossfit (injured
myself), softball, flag football, and soccer and I alway come home to racing.
There is nothing quite like it. When I, as a man in my mid 30's am racing down
the last 100 meters against a 65 year old I can't help but think they have
found the fountain of youth. The confidence, friendships, and experiences
races build are things you can treasure forever. The only drawback I have
found is the emaciated look that serious runners develop after prolonged
training (months to years). It does sound vain but in reality that is what has
kept me from pursuing it even more competitively. I'd love to hear the
thoughts of other runners out there, is this an issue you struggle with?

------
ggggtez
Introverts? This guy is talking about autism isn't he?

~~~
Trundle
People lacking social skills/abilities be it through autism or any other
reason took "introvert" long ago.

As someone drained by social situations who needs alone time to recharge - but
who successfully works in sales and has no trouble working a room, hitting on
women, dealing with hostile confrontation, etc - I wouldn't use the word to
describe myself.

It's socialisings "curvy".

~~~
clay_the_ripper
100% agree. I dislike the label. It changes how people perceive you.

~~~
sillysaurus3
Why? I'm proud of being an introvert. It's a source of strength. Most of my
best ideas come from solitude.

I think this is a case of haters gonna hate.

The defining characteristic of an introvert is that you feel drained being in
a social situation. Extroverts feed off the energy of a crowd.

~~~
Trundle
You can be proud of the term as per your understanding of it, but if you use
it as a description of yourself then you're relying on people sharing that
understanding. From my experience that's often not the case.

~~~
sillysaurus3
If it's who you are, there's no way to change it. Why go through life being
ashamed or treating it with a cold distance?

pg's "Keep your identity small" comes to mind. But when it's a description of
your mental status, it seems less like a label you choose and more like a
label that chooses you.

In particular, it's different from wanting a smaller belly or bigger muscles
or more money. All of those things are mutable. But being an introvert seems
like a fundamental fact of your existence that's unlikely to change. In that
context, isn't it better to wear it on your sleeve?

It's hard, certainly. But that's where a sense of community can help.

~~~
Trundle
I am tall. If I visited a hypothetical land where they spoke English with the
exception that the word "tall" now means "a rapist" I would avoid using the
word. Not because of any height related shame but because I don't want anyone
thinking I'm a rapist.

~~~
sillysaurus3
I respect that, but... I don't know. It's been a mistake in the past to let
other peoples' perceptions define who I am. I was just hoping to convince you
it's not worth it.

As a closing point, it wasn't until minorities started being proud of their
labels that they made significant progress toward equality and justice.
There's no reason to tolerate society's perceptions when they're unfair.

~~~
TangoTrotFox
To phrase what he's saying in another way, you would not refer to yourself as
something when it does not accurately represent what you are. And the meanings
of various qualifiers changes over time. This has nothing to do with
perception beyond the point of a shared understanding of the meaning of words.

"Label pride" played little role in the success of the vast majority of
success of minority groups over time in the US. At one time Chinese, Japanese,
Germans, Irish, Catholics, Italians, Jews, and countless other groups faced
hardships and issues in our, sometimes not so melty, melting pot. They
invariably overcame by actions, not words. Their degree of success can be
shown by considering the fact that when you refer to "minorities" you're
mostly not referring to these groups even though they are even smaller groups
than those you do implicitly refer to with the word. Again with the meanings
of the words!

