
Let's crash the integrated browser in Facebook - stedaniels
https://github.com/Mte90/FB-Android-Crash
======
yohann305
Bear with me here.

I remember of a time when Microsoft used to force you to use Internet Explorer
on a default Windows OS install. They got sued for this which forced them to
give user a choice to choose one browser from a selection of browsers (story:
[https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-
fi...](https://www.extremetech.com/computing/196170-microsoft-is-finally-
allowed-to-once-again-set-ie-as-the-default-browser-in-windows))

The more I think of it, the more Facebook becomes the equivalent of an
operating system for the average user. You can send/receive messages, do image
editing, surf the web, but you have no choice of which software to use to do
these tasks Once you're in FB ecosystem you're forced to use their array of
services.

I see the same pattern happening again. I wonder if people will rise to the
occasion and put a halt to this, just like it was done to Microsoft a decade
(or so) ago.

I'd love to hear your thoughts?

On a different note: Apple app store has strict guidelines on any app that is
trying to recreate an "app store" or OS system in their store and would
reject/remove such an app. FB might be playing with fire here?

~~~
bryanlarsen
This was only illegal because Microsoft was deemed a monopoly. One could
certainly argue that Facebook has a monopoly, but such an argument would
definitely be much more difficult than the one against Microsoft.

~~~
yohann305
i see, you've got a point. When we think FB, we should be reminded that FB
also owns other major social companies like Instagram and Whatsapp to name a
few.

FB might be a bigger fish than we might be aware of.

Thoughts?

~~~
aeturnum
>FB might be a bigger fish than we might be aware of.

I think we're aware of the size of the Facebook fish, but you might not be
aware of the size of Microsoft at its peak.

Something like 75% of adults in the United States have a Facebook account[1],
but at the height of their dominance Microsoft operating systems ran on ~98%
of computers [2]. 75% is a lot, but it's probably not a monopoly - especially
because Facebook does not make the devices or the OS on the devices. Lots of
people use Facebook, but nothing is keeping them using it.

Being popular is not illegal.

[1] [http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/01/09/pew-survey-
soc...](http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/01/09/pew-survey-social-media-
facebook-linkedin-twitter-instagram-pinterest/21461381/) [2]
[https://arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-
share/8/](https://arstechnica.com/features/2005/12/total-share/8/)

~~~
anonymfus
Your calculation of FB marketshare seems wrong: the right one should be about
the share of people who have social networks accounts.

~~~
gman83
Right, the question shouldn't be what percentage of people have Facebook
(which at 75% is incredibly high), but "what % of social media users have a
Facebook account".

~~~
Fuzzwah
Or perhaps it should be "only have a facebook account"....

~~~
mlonkibjuyhv
How many people owned a Windows PC peak Microsoft? 25%?

------
cfitz
I was surprised to read Facebook's in-app browser accounts for 48% of mobile
internet traffic from iOS (versus 34% for Android). Thank you
[https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans](https://twitter.com/BenedictEvans) for
that stat.

While I am all for escaping the "black box" that is Facebook's in-app browser
due to our inability to see what they are loading/tracking on the backend,
that likely won't happen until people stop using Facebook all together, as it
is more convenient for the everyday user. Simply put, Facebook's in-app
browser creates less visual noise than a link opening externally in Safari
(where there is often the animation of a new tab being created). This ignores
the fact, however, that Facebook requires this behavior and thus I cannot be
sure that my above statement "everyday people prefer a more convenient / less
UX noisy solution" holds true.

~~~
giulianoxt
Android solved that UX issue with Chrome custom tabs
([https://developer.chrome.com/multidevice/android/customtabs](https://developer.chrome.com/multidevice/android/customtabs)).
It uses a seamless UI exiting the app and everyone uses the up to date browser
on the phone.

~~~
geekrax
iOS also provides a way to have similar UX using Safari View Controller.
[https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2015/504/](https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2015/504/)

~~~
tehlike
there are problems with both, though. i like to click on something and then
give a break, and read later. with CCT, I have to consciously go and click on
"open in browser", which doesn't work well for me.

Otherwise, CCT and SVC should be the way to go, still much better than FB.
Aside from tracking and all, it doesn't get the niceties of a full blown
browser.

~~~
saagarjha
iOS has Reading List for this purpose, and SFSafariViewController has a button
dedicated for this.

------
uranian
Facebook in app's browser is total horror and I refuse to do any work related
to it, even if it would cost me my job!

A while ago I made a website for the company I work for, everything was
working flawless across all major browsers including mobile. Then some
e-commerce dude asked me to fix a few style issues for Facebook browser. I
didn't even know of it's existence by then!

This browser goes way beyond IE6 incompatibility, I spend 2 days in hell
trying to fix the style issues, which is nearly impossible because there is
not even a proper way to test your changes. To start I first had to install
that stupid FB app/virus in my phone, after that everything you type in the
address bar generates some totally useless crap suggestions and advertising
all the way, it was quite a puzzle/hack to even reach my own development
server through all this misery..

I eventually had to decide to redo the entire styling of the website so it
works with FB browser, or simply give up. I very fortunately managed to
convince my manager to not support FB browser, but I must have lost some
credibility that I was not able to fix this seemingly simple style issue.

~~~
elaus
I too first learned of the Facebook browser when a client complained that his
websites has some issues with it. Kinda weird how we as developers (that like
to keep up to date with web tech) can be completely unaware of a browser that
apparently generates 40% of mobile traffic .

------
greggman
Integrated browsers really bug me and I wish Apple would update their TOS to
require launching Safari (or better the user's choice)

The problem with integrated browsers is the AFAICT the app doing the
integration can read everything that goes through it. That means if you click
link and it links to page that asks you to login the app hosting the
integrated browser can read the keys/input/network traffic. How can I trust
any such app not to be spying on me? Sure I have to trust Apple with Safari or
Google with Chrome or Mozilla with Facebook but that's 3 companies to trust,
not one company per app * every 3rd party library they integrated.

At maybe a more minor level it also means the hosting app can read every URL
you visit from linked pages.

~~~
tluyben2
> Integrated browsers really bug me and I wish Apple would update their TOS to
> require launching Safari (or better the user's choice)

Making the users pick what happens when a browser action runs seems good,
however opening a separate new browser (like many apps and even sometimes
facebook on android do) is, at least to me, a horrible experience. Not sure
what would be best as the current situation is not very good I agree.

------
codingdave
I dropped off Facebook long enough ago that I didn't even know this was a
thing. But I cannot imagine the thought process where someone thinks that
Facebook is a good wrapper around web browsing.

~~~
lmm
Multitasking on mobile OSes still sucks, to the point where an application
with an embedded web browser can be nicer than trying to use the application
and your actual web browser at the same time.

~~~
codingdave
Oh, I get that... but in my (possibly dated) mind, Facebook is a web site, and
you run your mobile browser to view it, not the other way around. I mean, this
feels to me like the days when dial-up was fading, but my parents would still
connect to AOL to browse the Internet.

~~~
deong
Do you really think more people tap the Safari icon and then type
"facebook.com" in the URL bar than just tap the icon for the Facebook app? I
can't imagine that ratio is even remotely close to 1:1. I'd bet a good dinner
than 95+% of interactions on mobile are through the app.

------
josecanhelp
I just wish they allowed you to disable the in-app browser. Because of this, I
deleted the facebook app from my phone and use my browser to access it. It's
been great for productivity too.

~~~
johnnydoe9
The safest way to use facebook is to use a wrapper so it can't track anything,
like Metal for Facebook or Swipe then open links of Flynx btw. I highly
recommend this approach, floating browsers are pretty good for productivity.

------
chinathrow
If you wish to avoid all FB apps (FB/Messenger) and still want to use
messaging, use [https://mbasic.facebook.com](https://mbasic.facebook.com) \-
it works, it's fast, it's HTML only, but yes, no push notifications and no
browser lock-in as mentioned within the article.

------
scarface74
"It's easier for them to track what you read on the web more aggressively and
that's not very good."

That premise is right about Facebook but not necessarily with all iOS apps
that have "in app browsers"

iOS provides two methods to provide an in app browser - the traditional
webview where the parent app has access to everything you enter - but doesn't
have access to your browser cookies from Safari, your bookmarks, history etc
and the web controller which is basically a separate process running Safari
inside your app. It looks basically the same except the app has no access to
your cookies, passwords, bookmarks, but you do have access to all of the above
functionality and any ad blocker you have installed.

I don't use the FB app for just that reason. I use the mobile site.

------
gnicholas
FB's integrated browser is also bad for accessibility. For starters, it
doesn't support larger text, even if the user has set the OS-wide preference
for larger text.

And if you want to open a linked article in an app that does offer large text
or other accessibility features, Facebook doesn't make it easy? Instead of
using the standard Share pane, they only show that you can share to Safari
(which lets you then share to other apps, as all well-behaved apps do).

Why? Presumably because in the standard Share pane you'd see things like Email
and Messages, and maybe you'd send the article via those channels instead of
posting it on FB or sending it via FB message to a friend.

Basically, they want to keep you in the ecosystem, so they make it difficult
to leave. And they don't mind if accessibility ends up as collateral damage.

To their credit, they recently added the ability to copy the link, which was
missing when I wrote this article [1] on the inaccessibility of tech
companies' news apps (including FB), which are much less accessible than media
companies' news apps.

1: [https://hackernoon.com/the-importance-of-text-
accessibility-...](https://hackernoon.com/the-importance-of-text-
accessibility-in-news-apps-45ac8cca2e9a)

------
_joel
I install Firefox with uBlock extensions and set external links to open via FB
app in that. It works fine for me on Android. What _is_ annoying though and
has FB has a habit of removing the preference to open in external tabs when
you update. Dark patterns abound.

------
lnanek2
> First of all integrated in-app browsers suck.

I couldn't agree more. Every day I try to open a link in Facebook, Gmail,
Slack, etc. and it opens it inside the app in a half functional WebView
control and I have to go dig in the menu to try to get it to open in a full
browser just to do whatever I need to do (usually request desktop site, then
post some code review comments or squash and merge on github, etc.).

There used to be settings for some of these apps to avoid this. The Google app
has a setting that let you skip it for searches entered in the search bar
widget on the home screen, for example, but more often than not there's simply
no setting to avoid it and you are stuck with the bad behavior for as long as
you use the app.

------
fdim
I also hate when apps are doing this, especially when you can't disable it! I
really don't know how doing that benefits the user.

Recently I was bit by Instagram app on ios (reported by the client, I am an
android user) - it even breaks their own login flow! E.g. You can't open a
link from within their app and login to some 3rd party site via Instagram. It
simply times out and doesn't even replace the page - thus hides the actual
problem. What is worse, is that typical user would blame site developers for
this. In the end I had to refactor the flow to avoid login when user is coming
from the app...

If you choose to do this, do it this right!

------
wimagguc
Reading this from the HN iOS app that, too, has this terrible popup-browser-
feature. I doubt they track too much beyond clicks, so perhaps there's a user
interface upside to this that I don't see? Are users actually happy with it?

What I'm missing is the public uproar: if Facebook were to open every website
in an iframe I'm sure there would be a massive protest, but on mobile it seems
like everyone is fine.

~~~
ascagnel_
There's no official HN iOS app. If the app is more modern, it'll use the new
Safari View Controller that integrates content blockers (vs. the old web
view).

Facebook tracks every link through their own (slow) redirect service, so they
can track every link out. The "Like" buttons also act as page trackers, even
if you're not logged in.

------
stiGGG
Is GitHub now a blog?

~~~
falcolas
With github.io, it's been a blog for quite some time. Putting contents in a
readme is only a slightly different (though probably more inefficient for
github) use.

------
yladiz
Is the browser on Android in Facebook worse than using the default browser? In
iOS, I think Facebook has to use the WebKit web view so it acts the same as
Safari. (The criticisms about it being able to more easily/aggressively track
you are still true though.)

~~~
Normal_gaussian
I don't know about now, but a year or two back I stopped using the (Android)
app and used the mobile website because the experience was significantly
better. I'm aware that my close friends are in the same position.

------
godmodus
Tip, install a "secure browser" \- it would be detected as a low end platform
because it doesn't send everything they need to "optimise" the experience, and
offer you a stripped down version.

Whoever installs fb on mobile is asking for it.

------
bradhe
How much of a "browser" is this browser? Is it just a wrapper around some kind
of web view or does it have a native engine and all that?

Wondering realistically what the surface area for compatibility actually is.

------
ISL
One can avoid any browser problems by accessing Facebook _using_ another
browser.

The only functionality that appears to be missing is Messenger, which,
paradoxically, still works on the desktop-served web page.

~~~
frandroid
Only because there isn't a desktop app... yet ;)

~~~
ISL
It'll be a strange day if I can ever apt-get install a Facebook app from the
Debian repository.

------
chatmasta
I only browse Facebook via mobile safari. I do not have the iOS fb app
installed. It does _way_ too much and it squeezes as much metadata as it can
out of every single permission you grant it.

------
vnchr
Is this for protest or mischief?

~~~
robert_foss
Yes.

------
rcodiopo
Nice englando

