
Standard Markdown is now CommonMark - anonfunction
http://commonmark.org//
======
bla2
I kind of hope that Mark Pilgrim (of diveintomark.com fame of days past) now
complains that this dilutes his brand.

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lazyloop
There seems to be a lot of hostility from both sides now.

" _Are the Yankees the best team in baseball? We used to think so._ "

~~~
ejr
I understand that hackers tend to be irascible often, especially online, but
parting shots like these are in very poor form. Consideration and goodwill
tend be diminished when you can't be graceful no matter what the other party
said. Especially considering that other party was originally the impetus for
this in the first place.

~~~
awesomerobot
You also have to consider the other party was subtweeting all day and calling
people dicknoses.

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nvk
Needs either "Markdown" in it or go away with something completely different.
This is confusing and the worst of the name choices.

Edit: Suggestion: BetterGruber

~~~
sejje
They were denied (by Gruber) the choice to use anything with "Markdown" in the
title.

EDIT: source: [http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-
common...](http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common-
markdown/)

~~~
nvk
Fuck Gruber they should go with something totally different and Markdown will
be forgotten. Win.

~~~
dmishe
1\. The guy invented it, like or not, he can do whatever he wants with it.

2\. He actually said that he would like them to go with some new name and see
if it takes off, which I think is fair and I don't get the whole fucking
drama. Just come up with a name.

~~~
nvk
2\. How about "DeGrub", could even be used as a verb...

~~~
boredprogrammer
Or ReGrub - which has the awesome advantage(?) of being "burger" backwards ...

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kristopher
I think that it would be appropriate to simply forget the "Mark" parlance and
Gruber all together.

Everyone understands there is a Markdown ecosystem, but quite frankly this is
the start of something new.

End-users also need an easy to follow name and site to learn the syntax.

I like the names SmartText or SimpleFormat or even perhaps CommonMarkup.

~~~
codinghorror
It isn't something new, it is a strongly specified, highly compatible
implementation of Markdown. As seen in "common" use on large websites. And any
implementation that passes the current spec tests can also brand itself with
CommonMark or "Markdown compatible".

~~~
kristopher
Mr. Atwood, you may be too kind. I see this as a chance to bring Markdown to a
larger audience by not only standardizing it, but also renaming it as well.

In this endeavor it would appear that you are giving too much credit to
Gruber. It is unfortunate that he was not one to be more gracious in the
matter.

------
dmishe
"naming things and cache invalidation"

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neon_electro
Is there anywhere to file a pull request for the commonmark.org website? The
"Discuss" button still links to talk.standardmarkdown.com.

~~~
sehr
That's still the main discussion area for this project

~~~
sejje
Atwood said he'd shut it down (point 3, near the end):

[http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-
common...](http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common-
markdown/)

~~~
codinghorror
This (discussion area) is the hardest bit to change, the rest of the domain is
shut down. Will happen soon.

------
walterbell
Was CommonMarkup considered?

~~~
ejr
This comment should be higher. CommonMarkup gets rid of the naming hiccup by
having no direct ties to the original spec except syntax, which is arguably a
dialect anyway. Atwood gets to have One Syntax to Rule Them All - I sincerely
doubt Atwood wanted Yet Another Markdown as he said - and the community
benefits from having the syntax ambiguity resolved by comprehensive reform.

~~~
gojomo
'Markright' (adopting another direction other than 'up' or 'down) or
'Markwrite' (implying natural-language composition) would have been other
interesting choices. Or even 'Markround' (completed/balanced like a circle).

Each is closer in spirit to the original – a "mark-up" with a different spin
for ease or correctness – and close enough in sound/rhythm for drop-in
replacement use. And, each is still different enough to avoid any unearned
implication of official Gruber-ness.

------
gojomo
How about Bharkdown, where ARK = "Apple Rumor King"?

(cf:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Libel_di...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Libel_dispute_with_Carl_Sagan))

------
kevinqi
Are they no longer able to have "markdown" in the name? The name isn't
rubygems-bad, but it's not exactly intuitive.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
The original license says:

 _Neither the name “Markdown” nor the names of its contributors may be used to
endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior
written permission._

[http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/license](http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/license)

The name change may have been done as a courtesy rather than for legal
reasons, but apparently Gruber doesn't wish to endorse any forks.

There was even a kerfuffle on Twitter.

~~~
eslaught
This must have been done out of politeness and not out of legal reasons. I
don't think Gruber has any legal foothold with respect to the name here.

The license you quote is essentially based on copyright. But copyright deals
with creative works, not names; names are the domain of trademark. In the US
at least, copyright is automatic; trademarks are not. You must explicitly
register trademarks in order to have any legal enforcement power over a name.

Has Gruber registered for trademark in the US? I kind of doubt it.

I am not a lawyer, but this smells like something he just wrote in the
contract because he could, not because it actually can be enforced as such.

(Note: This is separate from the discussion of whether it was polite for them
to use the name Markdown. I generally agree that it is more polite for this
project to distance themselves from the original markdown given that Gruber
doesn't want to work with them.)

~~~
dogecoinbase
Incorrect -- there is a doctrine of common law trademark:
[http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426712](http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426712)

~~~
eslaught
Still, the level of protection for common law trademark is not the same as
when registered. From
[http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/BasicFacts.pdf](http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/BasicFacts.pdf)

1\. "Common law rights exist only for the specific area where the mark is
used" (vs registering gives you "a legal presumption of your ownership of the
mark and your exclusive right to use the mark nationwide").

2\. Registration grants you "the ability to bring an action concerning the
mark in federal court". (It's not obvious to me how this differs from common
law protections, but that's what the document says.)

Also mentioned in the document is that if you fail to defend you rights and
the trademark enters common usage (e.g. "escalator" being the canonical
example), then you lose protection under the law.

At any rate, the point is, this is trademark law, not copyright, so don't
assume what you know of copyright law applies (or that your licenses which are
written to protect copyrights will adequately address trademark issues).

------
ChristianBundy
Intellectual property strikes again.

------
Shad0w59
I find this whole saga hilarious.

------
x0x0
wonder what new tantrum from gruber brought this on

~~~
maxerickson
An addendum to this post:

[http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-
common...](http://blog.codinghorror.com/standard-markdown-is-now-common-
markdown/)

 _Edit: after a long and thoughtful email from John Gruber – which is greatly
appreciated – he indicated that no form of the word "Markdown" is acceptable
to him in this case. We are now using the name CommonMark._

It doesn't sound sarcastic to me.

~~~
x0x0
how was I being sarcastic? Gruber could have skipped the butthurt party by
replying to an email sent by the standard markdown team, instead of ignoring
them for weeks. He refused communications, reading them to read tea leaves and
guess what he might want. Like I said, tantrum. It's behavior expected from a
child.

~~~
maxerickson
I wasn't talking about anything you wrote, Atwood's post does not sound
sarcastic to me. He calls the email leading to the newest name "long and
thoughtful". That doesn't sound like a tantrum.

~~~
snogglethorpe
The obvious suspicion is that Atwood was merely being diplomatic when he
described Gruber's email in those words...

