

Ask HN: How do you fire a startup employee? - zaph0d

We have a small startup and we hired one guy a couple of months back. His programming skills were OK, but when it came to delivering, he scored a blank. Apparently he had never shipped software before and seemed to be more of a "software processes" zealot than being a hacker (which we intended to train him to become).<p>I understand that it was probably a bad hire, but the question is how do we fire him with a nice Email now?<p>Any example of a informal but nice termination letter (with little legalese) would be appreciated.<p>Edit: s/funny/informal
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philwelch
"Your programming skills are OK, but when it comes to delivering, you scored a
blank. Apparently you've never shipped software before and seem to be more of
a "software processes" zealot than a hacker. You'll probably do alright at a
larger firm where you have a better chance to develop but you don't really fit
what we need. We wish you the best of luck finding another job."

I don't see any reason to be less honest with him than you're being with us.
Save the hand-wringing over how to "nicely" fire someone for when you're big
and rich enough to hire an HR department and get back to real work.

~~~
zaph0d
Thanks. That helped a lot. I really need to be honest with him.

~~~
DanielStraight
You should be straightforward and honest, but you shouldn't judge him. You
don't need to give him a list of his faults. Simply tell him, "It's not
working out; I'm letting you go. Best of luck in the future." IF he asks for
more detail, give it, but criticize his performance NOT him. Do not tell him
what he is ("you're a software processes zealot"). That's for him to figure
out. Do not asses his motivations (something like, "you don't seem to care
about...") or his experience ("you've never shipped software before"). Assess
strictly his performance. Period. _Even if he asks you to assess him_. It is
not your place to judge who someone is, what their values are or what they
would be good at. It's your job to assess whether they are doing what you
hired them to do.

On a further note, if this surprises him in any way, there's a deeper problem.
Employees should know at all times whether they are living up to expectations.
If he wasn't, he should have known and had a chance to fix it.

Further, I agree this should be done in person, and another more important
point, it should be done privately. Do not call him out in front of his
coworkers. Give him a chance to leave quietly without embarrassment.

------
igrekel
I agree with lot of posters but there is one point I haven't seen addressed so
far: do you expect this to be a surprise for him? If not, you've probably done
something wrong. Were your expectations made clear to him?

Since I have had to fire someone in the past (not a pleasant experience even
if it went well), when I announced it, it wasn't really a surprise to him, his
attitude was more "it's sad but fair". But it went that way because I had a
few discussions earlier about what I was expecting in terms of actions and how
what he was doing was not meeting these expectations. Also make sure he knows
which things you don't really care for right now and find unnecessary right
now. It is possible he is not delivering because he is putting more energy on
things you don't care for. Creating this shared vision is one of the most
important things you need to learn when managing employees.

------
pclark
wow, firing via email. Man the hell up and take him aside, look him in the eye
and explain the situation.

You're a startup founder - lead from the front.

~~~
zaph0d
I completely understand. But as I have already said, I would have told that to
him in person, but he bunked office again today. I am fed up with his lack of
professionalism.

~~~
pclark
ring him and tell him to come in to chat.

------
budala123
Hacking sucks, BTW. You guys are always looking for grade A slaves and peons
to fill these roles. But hey, you are the "Big Idea" people, the rest of us
are little helots. Try walking a mile in the slave's shoes for a while, maybe
you won't be so harsh. Here's a suggestion: maybe out-source to Bangalore?
It's what the big boys are doing.

Anyway, more to your point:

Dear <loser>,

<paragraph of lies follows below>

we are very pleased with your work to date but due to a strategic rebalancing
forced upon us quite suddenly by exogenous forces, we need to make some
painful cutbacks. We have elected to pare back our newest hires, your position
included. If the financial condition of our company improves, we would be
happy to reconsider your employment at a later date. However, it is not
certain if the situation will resolve itself in the short term and so I would
advise looking for other positions in the interim. Let me say that it has been
truly a pleasure to work with such a keen and incisive mind as yours. I hope
there are no hard feelings between us.

Best of luck in your future endeavours <fuck off and die you piece of shit. we
hope never to see you again>.

signed

<greedy corporate asshole>

~~~
zaph0d
Haha! Now that was really funny. By the way, we never treated him as a slave.
He was also promised a fair amount of equity.

------
ionfish
Why do you need to be funny? What's wrong with an honest, clear explanation
that you need to fire him, and the reasons why?

Getting fired isn't (generally) a funny thing, and if you're an employer you
should probably be considering the well-being of your employees (even if
they're about to become ex-employees), not trying to make yourself feel better
about the process by "making it go down easier" with a jokey dismissal.

~~~
philwelch
"Getting fired isn't (generally) a funny thing"

Totally off-topic, but one time I did a crap summer job doing phone surveys.
It turns out that I'm not very qualified for jobs that require being civil to
people who are cussing me out. Getting fired wasn't funny, but the
circumstances that led up to it certainly are.

~~~
clistctrl
wow, that needs way more explaination

~~~
philwelch
You'd be surprised how polite most people are with unsolicited calls. Most
people just hang up. I worked there 30-35 hours a week for over a month until
someone even cussed at me. You actually learn more than you'd think at that
kind of job. You learn how it's difficult to distinguish between a male voice
and the voice of a lifelong female smoker. You learn all kinds of fascinating
regional accents. You learn how much fun it is for people to say bad things
about companies they've had bad experiences with (some rich guy in Texas
really had it in for Smith Barney). You learn that hockey fans don't like
being interrupted during the Stanley Cup ("do you know what time it is! It's
the Stanley Cup finals!"). (Drinking beer and watching sports does tend to
give people the illusion that it's the most important thing in the world,
which is probably where stadium riots come from.) You learn that some mothers
feel a little insecure about not being able to judge the quality of the meat
they buy.

There's something that happens to people in customer service jobs where they
have to be polite to people. Addressing people as "sir" and "ma'am" just gets
habitual. One day I learned that habit isn't automatically broken when someone
manages to trigger my "get into a cussing match" reflex. Some people will call
you a son of a bitch for trying to do a survey with them on Father's Day. That
wouldn't have bothered me, but some people have just the right type of voice
and inflection to get my goat. Instinct got the better of me. When that
happens, you learn that shouting "fuck you too, sir" into a phone loud enough
for the entire call center to hear you is cause for summary termination.

Going in there the next two Fridays to pick up my paychecks while getting the
evil eye from the managers was oddly fun. It was around that time I learned
that I was one of the few people there who _didn't_ smoke weed to get by
during the day. It might have mellowed me out enough to make more money. But
I've also learned that having a bit more money isn't always as rewarding as
having a story to tell.

~~~
clistctrl
its a pretty good story too

------
mbrubeck
Do it in person if possible, not by email. It's harder but it's more
respectful of the fact that this is an important decision. And it's too easy
to misinterpret tone in email.

~~~
zaph0d
I would have told that to him in person, but he bunked office again today.

~~~
rubinelli
Then schedule a meeting. Tell him to be there early tomorrow because you need
to talk, and then deliver the news face to face. Have a list of events in
which he didn't perform as you expected him to, explain that while he had an
acceptable performance, your company is too small to survive with less than
absolutely stellar work, wish him best of luck, and say you are available if
he needs references. I think being nice and respectful is much more important
than being informal. In fact, I think informality may give the impression that
you don't care.

------
ismarc
Did he have a salary or associated pay for any of the work? Have you sat down
and explained things to him yet (ie, how he is performing compared to what you
were expecting)? If you haven't told him, he may have just misunderstood the
primary focus. If he's been working for potential of equity only, let him
retain that potential based on work already completed, or give him a
reasonable payment of having worked for several months for free. I know I
would not be willing to ever be in any sort of business arrangement with
someone ever again after them getting months of free work from me and then
going "oh, hey, nah, not working out, sorry we didn't tell you so you could
correct it, and no you don't get to keep anything you've been working on, good
luck!"

~~~
zaph0d
He did have a reasonable salary, so compensation is not a problem.

------
lsc
be gentile, but firm.

Don't lie to him, but don't be an asshole or act like it's all his fault. The
valley is very small. Like it or not, this guy will be the face of your
company for some time to come. You will almost certainly work with someone
else who knows that person in the future.

Personally, when I have to fire someone, the way I see it, it was primarily my
mistake. I chose the wrong person for the job. I mean, I'm still going to let
them go, but I do it with the attitude that it was me who screwed up.

------
zaph0d
Okay, thanks everyone for the wonderful advice. I have decided to tell him in
person when he comes to the office again.

I will not judge him and I will clearly tell him that he has not performed to
my expectations. And no, I don't think it's going to be a surprise to him; I
have given him ample ways to figure out that his ways of doing things (or not
doing them) is wrong.

By the way, just to clarify, I am not from the Valley (I wish), and the place
is not that small :)

