
OpenJDK Comes to Windows 10 on ARM - santhoshkumar3
https://www.infoq.com/news/2020/08/openjdk-win10-arm
======
ogre_codes
This is an odd place for Microsoft to be, on ARM, both Linux and MacOS have
much more complete suites of software available than Windows. Obviously both
Windows and MacOS support emulation of their respective x86 platforms, but in
terms of native software, Windows is kind of a distant 3rd place.

I guess this opens up the chance JetBrains will point IntelliJ and PyCharm
over.

~~~
solarkraft
As much as I'd like it to be I don't think Linux is a serious desktop
contender for most people, so Microsoft is just in second place - and it's not
that distant yet, since the Apple transition has just started.

But of course the real (and perhaps obvious) difference is that Apple is much
more strict about its ecosystem, having decided ARM will _definitely_ be a
thing and developers _need_ to follow to stay relevant.

The Windows version is "maybe there will be ARM devices one day, maybe".
That's not nearly as convincing.

I believe the most convincing thing for developers (besides rewards like
promotion and filters in the store, which MS badly sucks at) would be a wave
of serious ARM devices coming out in the very near future. The longer it takes
the slimmer the chance that Windows on ARM will really catch on.

~~~
kd913
>As much as I'd like it to be I don't think Linux is a serious desktop
contender for most people, so Microsoft is just in second place - and it's not
that distant yet, since the Apple transition has just started.

I think market evidence points to the contrary. The Raspberry Pi is a fully
fledged Linux Desktop, it's running and marketed with full fledged desktop
software. Last I checked 25 million units have been sold.

It's use/sales far outstrips Windows RT or Surface Pro X which from what I
know are the only current uses for Windows on ARM.

So yes I think Windows is in a clear 3rd place on ARM architectures.

~~~
ogre_codes
> The Raspberry Pi is a fully fledged Linux Desktop,

I'm not sure I agree with this, lots of Pis are sold for projects which don't
involve use as a desktop. In fact—from what I've seen—only a small percentage
of Pis are actually used as day-to-day computing devices.

But in addition to the Pi, there is Pine64 which is exclusively sold as a
"Desktop" platform with both laptops and workstations.

But I was talking more about the number of apps available on the platform than
the number of units sold.

Software support for Windows ARM is a bit of a crapshoot which makes it hard
to estimate what's out there.

~~~
kd913
It may not majority be used as a desktop, but it is marketed as such. You go
to the raspberry pi store in Cambridge, and the first thing you see is it's
use as a desktop.

The use cases for the Raspberry PI is ridiculously varied which I think
reinforces it's application support relative to Windows on ARM.

I have seen it used for openstack development, as a desktop, home theatre pc,
pihole, nextcloud instance, emulator etc... I haven't really found software
that I can't just install/use.

Can you say the same for any windows on arm deployment? Especially if they are
only just coming out with mainstream support for OpenJDK and Electron support.

~~~
ogre_codes
You are talking to the choir here.

In fact the alternative uses for the Pi are arguably as interesting/ important
to its significance as a platform. A lot of little side projects which the Pi
gets used for now used to be low end Windows boxes.

------
ineedasername
How close to "native" performance is x86 emulation on ARM?

And is it complete enough that any x86 application running native would also
run on ARM emulation?

~~~
als0
Depends on the ARM processor and which x86 CPU to compare with. For example, a
high end ARM CPU translating x86 code could compare well against an Intel
Atom.

~~~
ineedasername
Okay, follow up then: Given a high-end arm chip, what would be a comparable
intel x86 chip with similar performance, without either chip using any
emulation? Is there a high-end ARM chip you could recommend I lookup and find
benchmarks on something like Geek Bench?

~~~
als0
Emulation performance can vary drastically depending on the application. Some
programs might run with unnoticeable penalties, while others run dreadfully.

It's not just about having a suitable CPU though, it also relies on a good
software layer. And there are many factors such as whether you're hitting
cache or not.

Here's how the Windows x86 translator on a Qualcomm Snapdragon compares to
Intel CPUs [https://www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-
performa...](https://www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-
performance/page2.html)

From what I've seen online so far, the binary translator from Apple, Rosetta
2, seems to have promising technology. But we won't know until we see the new
Apple Silicon based Macbooks.

------
kweinber
With Apple Silicon being implemented on ARM architecture as well, we are
seeing a major shift to ARM in general. I’d expect major OS makers to
accelerate ports to ARM.... Linux should follow suit..... as hardware makers
start tailoring platforms, we don’t want Linux locked out of the house.

Edit: My concern was that Apple or MS would have divergent hardware and other
support with firmware variations in their “custom” implementations. Kinda like
the hardware driver issues Linux has had for years, but now burned into
firmware.

~~~
foepys
Windows has been available for ARM since 2012, called Windows RT back then.
macOS is actually the last of the popular operating systems to port to ARM,
not the first.

~~~
asutekku
As usual with Apple's products, Apple is hardly ever the first one to do thing
X. What they are is that they are usually the first ones to do the thing X so
well that the public will adopt it. And that's what matters in the end, not
who was first.

~~~
moooo99
The big differenc is, following Apple's announcement, that they want to avoid
that the users even realize there is an Arm CPU inside.

My dad had a Surface RT a few years ago (I cannot recall how long exactly).
But you definitely did realize something was "different" with this thing.

I think Apple has a better chance at achieving this broad acceptance than MS
has because they have a lot more control over their ecosystem and hardware.
People actually seem to use their frameworks for building apps, for App Store
as well as direct downloads. Unlike Microsoft who still has not managed to
convince developers to move to UWP apps.

I actually don't hate using the Mac App store on my machine, but I haven't
used the Microsoft Store ever since I first tried it. And for lots of more
casual users, they probably actually won't realize that there is a difference
between the architectures.

------
Son_Oyun
[https://sonoyunlarindir.com/](https://sonoyunlarindir.com/)

------
modmans2nd
So?

