
A key ingredient for a universal flu vaccine may come from llamas - broahmed
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-universal-flu-vaccine-llamas-20181102-story.html
======
arkades
This is actually a terribly misleading pop-Sci writeup. Any chance mods can
change the link to the actual study?

[http://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6414/598](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6414/598)

~~~
dang
We try to stick with the best popular article when a technical paper is
outside most HN readers' specialty. Is either of these better?

[http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-
universa...](http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-universal-
flu-vaccine-llamas-20181102-story.html)

[https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11/nasal-gene-spray-
ins...](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11/nasal-gene-spray-inspired-
llama-antibodies-could-prevent-all-types-flu)

~~~
arkades
The LA Times article seems like the best of the bunch.

~~~
dang
Ok, we've changed to that from
[https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46078989](https://www.bbc.com/news/health-46078989).
Thanks!

~~~
arkades
No; thank you.

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ch0wn
I'd love to have more articles that revisit all the amazing sounding findings
we read about every day. Especially about the ones that fail trials.

~~~
BurningFrog
Some cynic should really do a web site that just follows up on all miracle
cures that flash by the feeds.

Let's say take the top viral cure each week, and follow up how it's developing
each anniversary. It could actually be really interesting, if done well.

But what to call it?

~~~
jobigoud
I was thinking isitcuredyet.com but the domain is already parked.

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darkerside
> The genetic instructions for making the antibody were packaged up inside a
> harmless virus, which was then used to infect the noses of mice.

That's interesting. I didn't realize gene therapy could be so localized.

~~~
rubatuga
Yep, they usually use a pseudo virus that doesn't replicate, called an adeno
associated virus. Check out this guys video on his own gene therapy for
lactose intolerance :
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J3FcbFqSoQY](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J3FcbFqSoQY)

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DoctorOetker
>It was tested on mice, which were given deadly doses of influenza.

I never realized there was an LD50 for influenza viruses (in healthy
individuals)...

------
BariumBlue
I know that cow antibodies are also generally more effective than human
antibodies due to their increased length... Why specifically use lamas?

~~~
clort
llamas produce very small antibodies that can attack the parts of the virus
that are further inside, and these parts do not mutate as often as the outer
parts, which our antibodies generally attack. The outer parts mutate pretty
quickly, meaning that any vaccine or treatment that we normally provide only
works for a short time.

~~~
whatshisface
If the inside parts have more to do with the functioning of the virus (which
is what one might guess from hearing that they are more conserved), could
targeting them with antibodies bias viral evolution towards colds turning
deadly as opposed to slight changes in their shell proteins?

~~~
WhiteSage
Evolution often makes viruses less deadly, as it wants to maximize dispersion,
and killing the host is usually not a good strategy. They will probably just
try to mutate to cover those inner parts of the shell proteins.

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AllegedAlec
Reminds me of Roovers' work on nanobodies. Everything old is new again, I
guess.

~~~
tomcam
I’m old and am bitterly disappointed that I haven’t been new again

~~~
brian-armstrong
Try having kids?

~~~
stochastic_monk
I imagine that that simply reinforces how one is old and not new in contrast
with the additional person.

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tw1010
I can't bring myself to be in any way happy from reading stuff like this. We
get articles like this every freaking day and probably only a fraction of them
will ever get into production.

~~~
garmaine
Only a fraction of them end up being repeatable.

~~~
radus
Not my field, but based on what I know of the quality of research in this lab
and the fact that it was published in Science, I would be very surprised if
the results aren't very solid and reproducible.

~~~
sjwright
Then the next question is whether it will work effectively in humans, with no
cure-worse-than-the-disease side-effects.

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efiecho
Can't help thinking on Winamp.

 _Llama, it really whips the flu 's ass._

~~~
psychedictic
Ahh, Justin Frankel's baby.

Also, this BBC article is two days old and is now in the 5th position on HN's
homepage, for me currently.

~~~
agumonkey
cough 4 cough

------
dirtfree22
What I don't get is why are we are spending resources on artificially
fortifying our bodies for something that's not event a serious threat? We as
society already possess capabilities to survive against threats even more
serious. Our body is magnificently apt at defending itself. Disease becomes a
problem for us only when we are not taking good care of ourself and our
environment, like all the disease outbreaks in UK and US in 1800-1900 when we
were living in filthy environment of cities and consuming food/water
contaminated by our own filth. Thanks to sanitization revolutions we were able
to regain our health. We can once again reach pinnacle of our health if we get
rid of newly create pollution in our environment/food.

~~~
koolba
Eh what? Even with modern healthy conditions the flu can be devestating to the
very young or old / frail. The vaccination aproach is not just to keep
yourself from getting sick, it’s also to prevent yourself from being a vector
to infect people who might not be able to be vaccinated or survive if they
were to become ill.

~~~
bdamm
Right, that I think I understand. However, maybe we could do better by
eliminating micro-plastics from the food chain and having health guidance that
isn’t written by big sugar, big fat, and big agro? Why do we have to inject
new manufacturered drugs into the entire population? Where’s the limit with
vaccines? Should all viruses and bacteria be eliminated through vaccine? I’ve
never seen a drug without a side effect so while I am pro-vax for things like
polio and even chickenpox, I really do wonder where the imperative is for flu.
We can likely make much greater strides in general numbers by simply providing
free access to mental health practitioners. Heck, I bet even returning the US
House of Representatives to a 100,000 count per would have meaningful results
on the public’s welfare, and that doesn’t require injections!

~~~
NationOfJoe
i believe the reason you are being down voted here is because we as a society
can work on more then one thing at a time.

people working on flu vaccines are probably not interested, trained or able to
work on public welfare. People who work on public welfare are not interested,
trained or able to work on vaccines.

