
How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email - SQL2219
https://www.wired.com/story/jpay-securus-prison-email-charging-millions/
======
imnotlost
Here you are, after making some mistakes and behaving very badly, the State
has full control of you.

They then limit how much you can communicate with normal people.

They are complicit in you being exploited financially.

They look the other way if you are physically or sexually abused.

When you've served your time no one will hire you and you're limited from
interacting with society normally.

And we, society, think this is just great! Which ticker can I buy to get in on
this action?

Dystopia is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet.

~~~
mindslight
It's an inevitable outcome from the myopic viewing of rights as enumerated
primitives, rather than qualitatively - the mob is constantly looking for ways
to justify why those rights don't apply to a given person. Prisoners are a
super easy target, as their right to liberty is already being violated
(justifiably, _I think_ ).

Driving a car (even though it's de facto mandatory) - bye-bye rights. On
privatized commons (like a shopping mall or Faceboot) - bye-bye rights. Forced
to contract for (employment, housing, food, etc) - bye-bye rights. Affecting
your own consciousness with substances - bye-bye rights. Caught peeing in some
bushes - bye-bye _all of your rights_.

And all the while, the majority cheers because it is inherently their norms
being enforced. The concept of rights wasn't meant to protect the majority,
but good luck getting that point across to the majority!

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iamleppert
My aunt is in prison and I’ve had to use the JPay app to send her photos and
messages.

It’s the most awful piece of garbage you’ve ever seen. It barely functions,
and doesn’t even handle the aspect ratio of photos correctly, and sends a tiny
barely viewable pixelated version. It frequently crashes and fails to send the
message although it deducts a “stamp” from your account. It looks like it was
hacked together by the cheapest outsource firm they could find and then never
updated. There is no customer support at all.

There’s a special place reserved in hell for people who use technology in such
twisted ways.

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wayanon
How is it moral for people to get rich from imprisonment?

~~~
whatshisface
Another question might be, how _isn 't_ it? In every other area of society, if
someone is very good at arranging things to achieve some widely valued goal,
we think it's OK for them to get rich. If someone is the best jailer in the
world would it not be reasonable to reward them? Operating a prison is a lot
of work.

The problem is that they are being rewarded for doing the _wrong_ things,
there's no problem with rewarding them in general.

~~~
jrhurst
"If someone is the best jailer in the world would it not be reasonable to
reward them?"

I mean if we're gonna bring up this anology we've gotta figure out what a
"best failer in the world" even means? What is the value the jailer creates?
How do define a high performance jailer over just a nominal performant jailer?
If there is no extra value produced by the best jailer in the world then we
are over paying the best jailer in the world.

~~~
bdcravens
There's value in reducing recidivism and escapes. More practically, jails are
understaffed, and there's tremendous political value in making Joe Public feel
safer.

~~~
rhizome
_there 's tremendous political value in making Joe Public feel safer._

On this point, without looking it up, what do you estimate the overall
recidivism rate to be? Just in a general conversational sense.

~~~
bdcravens
Depends on the crime and incarceration level.

~~~
rhizome
Overall.

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wallace_f
Regulatory capture is terrible.

Another example: Once I needed some court records. Not surprisingly, they're
recorded in proprietary format, only playable with a proprietary media player,
and all to enormous cost to the taxpayer, all while applicable state law
demands these court records be open access to the public.

------
WheelsAtLarge
I want to be outraged by JPAY but I can't be. 47 cents per email seems like a
lot but it's not. Consider a typical home situation, Spectrum charges $50 a
month just to get internet service that does not include the hardware,
maintenance, taxes and who knows what else. Divide service cost by .47 cents
and that works out to something like 100 emails. I know for a fact that I
don't send that many emails a month. So, in reality, I would be paying more
than that per email. Sure, I use the internet for other purposes so I'm ok
with it.

JPAY has to deal with all the fixed costs of setting up the internet
connections plus ongoing maintenance. There are only a few information
services that society wants prisoners to use in prison since all prisoners
have been proven to be untrustworthy. Email is one of the few so JPay has to
charge high rates just to get a return on their investment. I'm not crying for
them since they are making a good return.

I don't like the situation but the alternative is no e-mail. It's obvious
prisons don't want the responsibility of providing it and private companies
want a high return for doing it.

Like it or not JPAY is providing a service that wouldn't exist otherwise. 47
cents per email is high but it's acceptable given the alternative.

~~~
chillwaves
.47 is not reasonable by any measure.

You can't compare being in prison with signing up with an ISP.

Prisoners also have basically no income. They are often charged per day on
their accounts as well and are charged high mark up for basic commissary items
and outrageous mark up for phone calls (even more than email).

This is exploitation, plain and simple.

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markbnj
I was surprised that the article did not mention the fact that Idaho prisoners
recently gamed their jpay tablets to steal $225k
[https://qz.com/1343662/inmates-gamed-their-prison-issued-
tab...](https://qz.com/1343662/inmates-gamed-their-prison-issued-tablets-to-
get-225000-in-credits/)

~~~
mikeyouse
They didn't "steal $225k", they gamed the tablets and sent messages that would
have normally cost them $225k in the magic beans that these awful leeches make
them buy to communicate with their families.

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mnm1
Of course, if you can profit nicely off of people's misery and suffering, it'd
almost be un-American not to. These perverse incentives go a long way to
explaining what a shitty society we live in. Over two and a half million
people locked up isn't good enough. Let's charge them for email. Let's root
for them to get raped or murdered inside. They must deserve it even if over
ninety percent didn't even have a chance at a trial when they were threatened
with a plea deal or an absurd amount of time in jail. There is so much hate
and cruelty here, it's beyond sickening.

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blindwatchmaker
Prison labor is the natural next step in the race to the bottom for wages.

~~~
gumby
Look at the development of chain gangs in the 1870s US and you'll see it was
an explicit mechanism for restoring slave labor to the southern economy.

Specifically look up Parchman and Angola which are hardly the only instances,
merely the most famous ones.

------
JudasGoat
The only way to repair this is to allow competition where the inmates can
choose from a list of applications built to whatever security standard.

------
Kagerjay
This is an interesting read

While profiting off inmates may seem predatory to some extent, it does offer a
service that was not there before the dotcom age.

When we look at prison communication back in the day, it was through locally
wired telephone systems. The loved one or family member had to physically be
present to speak to the person, but with technology something like an ekiosk
(essentially the same types you see at newer airports, olive garden, etc),
this does not have to be the case. You can be halfway across the world and
still have more than just a phone call with someone who is incarcerated using
the internet.

Prison phones are a commodity but now it seems to be legalized in a sense with
this type of kiosk gateway for buying news, watching TV shows, etc.

I've done a bit of work with prisons before, the restrictions for equipment
inside of it are absurd. Everything is considered a weapon in prison. I can
only imagine the amount of censorship involved with this gateway though, its
like bigbrother 1984

~~~
chrisseaton
> but with technology something like an ekiosk (essentially the same types you
> see at newer airports, olive garden, etc)

What's an ekiosk? And Olive Garden is a fast food chain isn't it? What do
these two things have to do with each other and with prisons? And why do you
need ekiosk or fast food chains to solve this? You just need any two tablets
and an internet connection.

~~~
Kagerjay
Ekiosk is just a short term that people use IIRC, similar to "drones" and
"quadcopters".

Its just a tablet (using a samsung galaxy normally), that is encased and
mounted physically. Similar to what you would see at bestbuy when window
shopping but more robust.

I've seen them in McDonalds and some innovation centers in specific Airports
([https://www.afar.com/magazine/the-future-of-airport-
dining-i...](https://www.afar.com/magazine/the-future-of-airport-dining-is-
now)). These restaurants utilize empty-dead space in larger central walkway
aisles in airports. The one I'm thinking of is in Newark, NJ , I went to that
airport on a layover to switzerland last year.

Many innovations in restaurants get passed along to prisons after the fact
IMO. The demands for higher market innovations builds unique solutions that
end up getting pushed to other industries such as prisons.

~~~
chrisseaton
So with all that talk of restaurants, Best Buy, ekiosks, innovation centres,
airports, drones, window shopping, the actual idea is just 'let people call
each other over the internet like the rest of society does'?

~~~
Kagerjay
More or less, its not an amazing technological innovation by any means its
more of an adoption of business solutions existing in the market already.

------
intralizee
I find the social support systems in America awfully poor from my experience
growing up in the US and observing what was provided or obtainable (depending
on personal financial status). It's no surprise to see this first world
country lacking compassion towards others who didn't find the variables to
succeed. The capitalist mindset feeds from irrational behavior and lack of
understand towards you are who you are from genetics, environmental factors
and all events in a linear ordered progression (life). So many times I've
encountered people just write off a person they consider a failure to
themselves by having oneself obtain the variables to succeed and refusing to
acknowledge the other person(s) didn't have the same experience. How people
even have the capability of profiting from these extremely unfortunate people
shows everyone is at fault in the US for allowing it. Everyone should take
responsibility or leave the country like I did. You're unlikely to succeed
when the majority are irrational and you're less fortunate.

~~~
nojvek
This x 1000. If Aliens were trying to find an example of advanced civilization
and they saw how things operated in the US, they’d very much think we are a
messy and non functioning civilization that would eventually wipe ourselves
out.

The truth is we as a nation consider prisoners as a second glass citizen. Like
humans with defects from a manufacturing plant that need to be contained in
jails away from everything.

And we have a dark side of capitalism that optimizes for stock value without
regard for human element. We are already in the world of AIs optimizing
endlessly to increase a magic number without much regard to external
consequences.

------
jimnotgym
It still amazes me the human waste of US prison sentences. Armed robbery in
the UK for a 17 year old, from memory, is likely to attract significantly less
than 10 years of actual time served.

Yet in the UK we are not overrun with armed robbers. I think the deterrent
effect of a long sentence is rather lost on a 17 year-old who is already
making bad life decisions.

~~~
Retric
The idea is not a deterrent. The idea is if someone spends most of their life
in prison they are not going to be able to commit crimes outside.

Effective or not, the reasoning is fairly straightforward.

~~~
albertgoeswoof
But you have to let them out at some point. The longer they’re in the more
likely they’re going to be to commit crime when they do leave.

~~~
themihai
Without some rehabilitation programs chances are that they will get back to
prison regardless of how long or short it's their stay. I guess the gov has to
decide if it's worth to pay for rehabilitation or just keep them in jails. The
latter is easier to implement and to sell.

~~~
albertgoeswoof
Re-offending rates are lower in counties that do provide rehabilitation rates,
it’s pretty well known. So the US government is wrong on this point if that’s
what they’re judging against.

Most people in positions of influence aren’t stupid though- clearly there is
something else swaying the decision. I would imagine that for-profit prisons
are probably the root cause.

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Invictus0
Is it really so hard to compete with this company? It's only a monopoly
because no one else went in and did the work. Whats preventing anyone else
from making these kiosks and charging a penny per call/email?

~~~
Sharlin
Getting them to prisons? It’s not like the customers (that is, the convicts,
_not_ prison officials) have a free choice of the service provider. It’s not a
free market and the current situation is perfect for rent-seekers.

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dplgk
30 years for armed robbery? I've seen less for murder. Maybe Kim Kardashian
can get him pardoned.

On topic: if you see prison as a punishment then paying for email is part of
it. If you see prison as a place to store bad people but treat them fairly
while they're there, then I guess it's morally wrong. As the risk of
whataboutism, charging for email is really the least of our moral problems
with prisons. People are profiting greatly from the prisons themselves.

~~~
swalsh
Some people commit crime because they have things biologically wrong with
them. I'm not convinced they're anything but a minority. I think most
offenders violent or not end up there because a series of bad decisions. I'd
hope prisons could be placed to help put people on better paths. Paying
extortion prices for email isn't helping them.

