
Where is Notepad in Windows 10? (2015) - pmarin
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-desktop/where-is-notepad-in-windows-10/7f9e8a8b-a18b-4cfb-9c9c-88103eb1f579
======
komali2
This is a pretty fun submission. I like peering into the lives of computer
users that don't have the level of computer literacy I'm used to day to day.
It's a good reminder.

> This answer is not helpful. There is no start button.

Because it's just a little windows icon now - easy to forget that that doesn't
just make sense to some people.

> Thank you, Brian- I would surely never have looked there, for anything,
> never mind notepad! It is on my start box now.

Some people just haven't/won't learned the grammar and vocabulary of computer
literacy. I think this person means "start menu?" But it looks like a box to
them so that's how they described it.

A while ago there was an article where a woman was trying to user testing in a
mall and instead found an old guy who had literally _never_ touched a
computer. Reading that experience was fascinating.

~~~
nickjj
> I like peering into the lives of computer users that don't have the level of
> computer literacy I'm used to day to day. It's a good reminder.

Yep and sometimes it happens in unexpected places. I just went to the dentist
the other day.

The receptionist accidentally moved her task bar to be oriented vertically on
the left and couldn't get it back to the horizontal bottom position.

We're on very friendly terms so she asked if I could show her how to fix it
which involved going around the desk. Naturally I requested she hides any
windows that might violate HIPAA compliance before I swung around.

It was interesting to see her facial expressions and "whoa!" reactions when I
mentioned how you can left click and drag the task bar to different spots and
how to prevent this from happening in the future by right clicking and locking
the task bar.

What was really interesting to me was when I said right click on the mouse,
her eyes immediately looked at my hand on the mouse so you can't take left and
right clicking as granted knowledge that everyone has as muscle memory.

This is someone who has been using that computer for years to manage
appointments and whatever else, but things like right clicking the task bar is
a move that very few people do out in the wild unless they are approaching
enthusiast levels. She's not out of the loop with tech either. She has a
smartphone and does a lot of things with it.

~~~
Noumenon72
Yes, when I volunteered to help senior citizens with computers right click was
something none of them knew they could do, nor could they remember it from
week to week. Phones and web sites are much easier.

~~~
Terretta
Remember how much flack Apple got from tech pundits when they got rid of the
other buttons and the middle clickable scrolling wheel? “Only one button?
Savages!” But Apple was acting on observation of non-expert users,
democratizing computing.

Today it’s interesting to see the favored device at both kindergartens and
retirement homes: iPads.

Yet iPad’s also fine as my daily driver.

Computing is entering its appliance age.

~~~
whoopdedo
They didn't "get rid of it" so to say. The Macintosh only ever had one button
on the standard mouse. I can't recall any Apple computer shipping with a
multi-button pointing device until the Magic Mouse.

------
DannyB2
Fifteen years ago, one of the Microsoft fanboy arguments against both Linux
and LibreOffice (then OpenOffice.org) was that neither worked exactly like
Windows / Office.

Then Microsoft comes along and changes everything. The Ribbon instead of the
pull down menus. Now which office suite works more like what users have used
for a couple decades?

Windows 8 comes along with a totally different UI. So different that ordinary
users don't know how to do the most basic tasks like print, or even how to
shut down the computer.

Windows 8 UI (no matter what you call it) "fixes" things by adding back a
start menu, but not calling it start.

No search box in the start menu -- you just have to magically know that you
can start typing.

And magical key combinations to type in commands.

IMO, it really is change for the sake of change. And generally change for the
worse. The interface we had with classic Mac, and Win 95 was pretty usable.
And stable. (Nevermind the underlying tech it ran on top of, no real kernel,
etc.)

~~~
wiseleo
Office 2007 ribbon was a terrible release. I am an Office power user and I
still have to dig through well hidden “advanced” dialog boxes that were
previously exposed in the UI to do things that I remember Office was capable
of doing.

I still hate that change.

~~~
SL61
This really shows the power of habit. Now that it's been 12 years, a whole
generation has grown up with the ribbon UI. At 22, I'm one of them. Office
2003 and earlier (+ LibreOffice) feels clunky and arcane to me. 2007 was the
first Office version that I seriously used, and I remember being confused as
to why my parents complained about the ribbon.

Sometimes I wonder if UI design matters at all beyond what users are already
acclimated to.

~~~
wiseleo
It goes beyond habits. I know what Office was capable of many years ago. Many
of those features became completely hidden by the ribbon. Once I managed to
find them again, I would be looking at the unchanged dialog boxes from Office
97 inside the pretty Ribbon interface.

Let me put it this way - I am qualified to write a book about Microsoft
Outlook. One of my presentation interaction points when talking about Outlook
was to tell the person asking the question "This was already a feature
introduced in Outlook __".

Outlook got especially destroyed by Ribbon. It is capable of so much more than
is exposed by the UI. The same is true for Excel, especially once you add
various add-ons.

Ribbon made it easier for novices to learn a handful of shortcuts using
multiple key strokes (press alt and follow the letters that appear). It also
destroyed workflows of countless power users.

------
c3534l
Everyone is looking down on the users, but they're right. Usually the most
correct UI design is the most obvious one, and showing off how clever you are
might make the designer feel smart, but it makes the consumer feel dumb. It's
one of the reasons I now live almost exclusively in the terminal. The terrible
Windows redesigns are usually justified as being more intuitive to users who
aren't "powerusers," but when you can't even get something as trivial as
opening notepad consistent and logical, whose fault is that? Not the users.
The users are just using the abstractions Windows gives them and it's failing
becaus Windows didn't implement it correctly.

~~~
xmprt
At what point do you stop blaming the user and start blaming the designer?
Who's fault is it if a user doesn't know how to use a mouse and keyboard?
Should we expect all apps to be built with text to speech and touch input as
the primary interface? That just seems like a UX nightmare to me.

To apply that extreme to this case, I think it's not too much to ask that
users know what the start menu is and how to use it to find and start apps.

~~~
c3534l
> I think it's not too much to ask that users know what the start menu is and
> how to use it to find and start apps.

It is when you provide icons for most applications, but only provide text
search for others (which has a confusing interface that sometimes displays
webpages and local documents). There are limits to blaming the designer, but
inconsistent, half implemented, with few affordances, that uses mixed
metaphores is neither good programming or good design. It's not always the
fault of the design, but this design is the fault in this case.

------
benmorris
Windows has become a complete UI disaster. I feel like Windows 7 was the last
cohesive UI. The control panel is a great example. I'm not sure how it could
possibly be more of a train wreck. Settings are in seemingly random locations
split between the new and old style control panels. The deeper you get into
dialogs it is like stepping back in time. Printers or network adapters you end
up jumping back and forth to find the correct setting.

~~~
Nition
If anyone hasn't really noticed this, a good example is try changing the mouse
pointer speed (which is surely a pretty common thing to want to do!).

~~~
markmark
I'm on mac, but opened up my windows laptop to check this. I clicked the start
menu, typed "mouse speed" and the first option was "Change the mouse pointer
display or speed", I picked that and there I was.

~~~
Nition
The main issue is that a search for "mouse" or the like takes you to the new
Settings panel for mouse instead, which has some options but not all. A small
"Additional mouse options" link under a "Related settings" heading then takes
you back to the old Control Panel mouse settings, where you can actually
change the speed.

Your search was good, and got you straight to the old Control Panel version.
But the fact that the settings are split over two not-fully-overlapping
systems is a bit ridiculous, and confusing.

------
cosmodisk
I started using windows about 25 years ago.It was 3.1 and now my Dell XPS runs
on Win 10 and my job is technical. Despite all of this,with every additional
release they somewhat manage to make it less and less intuitive and more
difficult. There's no logic in so many design decisions- it's mad.
Anyone,who's never used a computer doesn't stand a chance nowadays.

~~~
egdod
Windows 7 was pretty good. Windows 10 is a mess.

~~~
chapium
I found the transition from 7 to 10 pretty seamless. The only thing I don't
like is the alt tab screen, but the original was pretty bad anyway.

------
Animats
Microsoft botched the answer. "Step 1" and "Step 2" are alternatives, not a
sequence.

~~~
dyingkneepad
And none of those answers are the path that the most people would do, which is
to navigate the start menu with only the mouse.

------
smacktoward
It's hidden behind Candy Crush.

------
workthrowaway
wow, just realized some of us have been using shortcuts for so long that we
don't know when things get moved.

also the "windows" key argument was kinda moot because most keyboard have a
key that isn't a "windows" key but works similar...

~~~
giancarlostoro
I've owned many a keyboard, I don't recall a single one without a Windows key.

~~~
jlarocco
On the other hand, I have 6 keyboards near my desk and only one has a Windows
key. YMMV, I guess

~~~
xnyan
I have not personally seen a PC keyboard without a windows key for 20 years,
YMMV.

------
zw123456
There were a number of things that go missing when going from win7 to 10, like
the games, Chess Titans (and others) disappear and replaced by ad driven crap.
Also, DVD player, in Windows 7 it was included in Win10 you have to buy one or
get a "free" one that is ad driven. Hard to blame Microsoft when it seems like
everything has ads stuffed into it now days.

~~~
BLKNSLVR
Don't forget the calculator, which used to start within milliseconds of
clicking the icon, but now takes a, sometimes not even countable on your
fingers alone, number of seconds to load.

~~~
stan_rogers
The Win10 calculator is also missing a lot of functionality. Luckily, there's
an easy way to put back the old calculator... but it's only really launchable
if you pin it.

[https://winaero.com/blog/get-calculator-from-
windows-8-and-w...](https://winaero.com/blog/get-calculator-from-
windows-8-and-windows-7-in-windows-10/)

------
gruez
>Step 1:

> Go to Start menu.

> Type notepad and press Enter.

>I tried Step 1 prior to posting here. It doesn't work!

Works for me on the latest windows. Granted, there's no textbox to type into,
but it appears when you start typing.

~~~
basch
>it appears when you start typing.

This is a shockingly common problem for people. I can tell they feel
uncomfortable just typing without a place "where" the typing will go. Many
people will click the magnifying glass and then again place the cursor into
the search field. Same with google, they will click the search field, then the
cursor moves to the address bar, they feel surprise, and then place the cursor
in the address bar a second time.

~~~
overgard
It's also really annoying on a tablet. I can't get an onscreen keyboard
without some sort of target.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I think in the current iteration of Windows, you're supposed to get a
permanently visible keyboard icon in a taskbar when in tablet mode, clicking
which will summon the on-screen keyboard. At least that's how it worked on the
two Windows 2-in-1s I worked on over the last year.

------
RichardCA
If I have to support anyone using Windows 10 the first thing I do is recommend
they install Classic Shell / Open Shell.

The UX on default Windows 10 Start Menu is unacceptable.

[https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu](https://github.com/Open-
Shell/Open-Shell-Menu)

~~~
jahlove
I love Classic Shell. Open Shell seems to not be super active though, sadly.

~~~
solstice
Does it need to be active (beyond possibly having to fix stuff after each new
windows release)? Are there any big open issues? (Honest questionl

------
nickjj
I think this might be a case where keyboard shortcuts are more descriptive and
fool proof than trying to use tech specific phrases like "Go to Start menu".

"Hold down the windows key on the keyboard and press the S key while the
windows key is held down, and then type notepad and press enter".

And if they get hung up finding the windows key on the keyboard you can
explain it by saying it's likely near the bottom left in between the ctrl and
alt keys and has the 4 squares.

------
ropiwqefjnpoa
I've got it pinned in the taskbar next to N++

~~~
willis936
N++ is really great but what if I want to open text files larger than 4 GB? ;)

~~~
mamon
On a single machine? You need a Hadoop cluster for that :-P

~~~
geogra4
I've been really happy using glogg[0] for that scenario.

[0]: [https://glogg.bonnefon.org/](https://glogg.bonnefon.org/)

------
ogre_magi
I have a hard time considering people who aren't natural power-users of
technology human.

I recognize that this is a failing of mine.

~~~
carapace
Brave of you to admit it, even here.

I have a similar problem: I'm so goddamned intelligent that this world seems
like the movie "Idiocracy" to me. ( I can't watch it: it's too painful. )

When I was younger, this advice from the Book of the Subgenius helped me a lot
to get by, "Act like a dumbass and they'll treat you like an equal."

Eventually, I calculated the existence of God, called out "Ollie Ollie Oxen
Free", and He showed up and Shook my hand.

Since then my intelligence has been idling: there's nothing further to
compute. That, combined with diligent administration of THC, has brought my
general intelligence level down to that of an average smart person.

Here's the thing: now that I experience it for myself, _normal intelligence is
terrifying_. It's no wonder everyone is always so stressed out and worried.
Their brains are _not adequate_ to the complex artificial world we have built
for ourselves. (Are you familiar with the "Peter Principle"? That's what we've
done: not promoting people to level their level of incompetence, rather the
world has grown complex to the point where most people are now incompetent,
through no fault of their own.)

Robert Anton Wilson points out, "Under the present brutal and primitive
conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of
the walking wounded. We have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged
by either anxiety or grief. We have never seen a totally sane human being."

What I'm saying is, _pity_ them, they know not what they do.

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
This is easily one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read. I hope it
was intended to be satirical, for your sake.

~~~
zeppelin101
This was almost certainly a joke comment.

~~~
carapace
"Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."

------
cryptozeus
Its sad but to find anything on win10 ...just search. How are non power users
supposed to know this.

~~~
keyle
Especially the search results are non deterministic, order seems to shift, and
it's slow at times, and it puts tons of irrelevant crap in it.

------
notadoc
This reminds me of trying to explain the "Home" button and Touch ID on an
iPhone to an older relative a few years ago. They could not figure out how to
reliably unlock the phone and they'd most frequently end up with Siri from
holding the button down.

Design is how it works...

------
galaxyLogic
1\. Open Start-menu 2\. Scroll left-pane down to W and click Windows
Accessories 3\. Click Notepad

In other words: StartMenu -> Windows Accessories -> Notepad

This may have something to do with that people don't learn to use Windows
since they are mostly using their Android phones anyway.

------
Causality1
Losing the ability to type a program name into the start menu and drag it onto
the desktop to create a shortcut is one of the more baffling and infuriating
feature regressions in Windows 10.

------
zwieback
It's surprisingly hard to type instructions that everyone will follow the same
way. "Go to the Start menu" is useless.

Probably best to shoot videos nowadays.

~~~
octorian
Yeah, and its a good thing that video is now an option. When I was a kid,
often in the position of helping old people with computers, there was a major
behavior difference I often observed.

I looked at the screen "globally", and would identify elements of interest
within it. So you could tell me to find something on the screen, and I'd look
at the whole screen to spot it.

They had a small mental "viewport" (maybe 2"x2") whilst looking up through
their bifocals, that they would only be able to notice elements within. So you
first had to steer their viewport to the right region of the screen, and only
then could tell them what to look for within it. This gets especially
frustrating when dealing with a windowed UI that could ostensibly pop up a
dialog box anywhere.

------
deesep
1184 people have the same question

------
darkstar999
This is a non-story.

Start menu -> Windows Accessories -> Notepad

Am I missing something?

~~~
wheelie_boy
Yes, the story is not that notepad is in some weird place in windows 10 - it
is still where most HN readers know to find it.

The story is about how regular people deal with computers, as can be read in
the comments.

It's like that story about how one day the google search 'facebook login' took
people to a forum page that let people comment using their facebook
credentials, and we got to find out how many users just type 'facebook login'
to whatever text field they run across, type their username and password in,
and then get really confused when it's a random forum page and they can't see
their normal feed.

~~~
sorenjan
It was a news article on ReadWriteWeb, with Facebook comments. The number of
people that not only blindly clicked the first search result out of habit, but
also didn't realize that they've landed on a news article on a completely
different site was stunning. Truly an Internet classic, thanks for reminding
me.

> Ok If I have to I will comment,I love facebook so right now just want to log
> in if thats ok with you..lol Keep up the good work...

> The new facebook sucks> NOW LET ME IN.

> I WANT THE OLD FAFEBOOK BACK THIS SHIT IS WACK!!!!!

> EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY NOT JUST LEAVE IT
> ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!1111

> I just want to log in to Facebook - what with the red color and all?
> LOLLLOLOL!!!!!111

> This is such a mess I can't do a thing on my facebook .The changes you have
> made are ridiculous,I can't even login!!!!!I am very upset!!!

> Seams like all of the comets i read agree with me you people messed up royal
> i was enjoying facebook now i am thinking of getting rid of it all

[https://web.archive.org/web/20100303073613/http://www.readwr...](https://web.archive.org/web/20100303073613/http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_your_one_true_login.php)

~~~
otterlicious
This reminds me of the Google Play reviews for any built-in app ever:

[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.webview&hl=en_US&showAllReviews=true)

------
jonnycomputer
where is notepad++ you mean.

because its just absurd that Windows doesn't ship with a premium text editor.

its not like Microsoft doesn't make one or anything... /s

------
DKEYBOY
That's cool

------
duckqlz
roflpip

------
winternett
Beyond saving anything bigger than a sentence it really has no use.

I almost dropped dead in shock to see they updated MS paint to Paint 3D, but
then I realized that Its still intentionally limited and severely clunky to
encourage you to spend money on Photoshop. :/

~~~
prepend
I prefer txt files for config and notes. I don’t care about formatting so word
or word pad are too much.

I also use notepad as my goto “paste without formatting” as it’s typically
faster to wash the clipboard through notepad than use whatever “paste special”
ui an app has.

~~~
Filligree
Notepad only supports CRLF, wordpad can read Unix-style files, which is a lot
of files even on Windows. A great deal of software was written to
unconditionally insert \n.

Formatting isn't the only reason to use it. I never bother to try notepad.

~~~
ahbyb
Notepad supports \n for a few months or years now.

