
Why Japanese Whisky Is So Good and So Hard to Find - pastamachine
http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2018/japanese-whisky-good-hard-find/
======
kilo_bravo_3
11-12 years ago, Santa Margherita Pinot Grigio used to be $9.99 a bottle.

It was a very good wine for cheap and wine hipsters loved it.

Then after a string of stellar reviews in different wine media outlets it
became hard to find at $20-30+ a bottle.

The price, coupled with the scarcity and good reviews made it even more sought
after. So production was increased.

Now it is easy to find for $18 a bottle.

Because it is now popular, and relatively expensive, wine hipsters turn their
nose up at it.

Snobs will claim for days that the ramp up in production has led to quality
differences to something they tasted a decade ago, with absolutely no way of
supporting that claim.

I imagine the same thing happens with whisky, except whisky production is
harder to increase due to aging requirements.

I'm 100% sure that if Japanese distilleries find some way of increasing
production and availability, whisky snobs will wave their hands and say "oh
they ruined it", even if every objective means of evaluating it shows it to be
spectrometrically, molecularly, and even atomically identical in every way to
whiskeys back when they were rare.

~~~
pradn
We should not underestimate the social and "hype" aspects of enjoying
something. I enjoy things a lot more when I'm primed to enjoy them. It's sort
of like the placebo effect for enjoyment. I'm much more charitable with a film
made by a director who is well regarded than by an unknown, for better or
worse. I suppose you can go the opposite way and only like things other people
turn their noses at, but that's a bit misanthropic.

~~~
ballenf
And the exclusivity factor. Whether a hidden vacation spot, restaurant, food,
or under-appreciated spirit. Even a paid app from an indie dev gets is often
more loved than the same app from mega corp would even if given away free.

Also why every large brewer has a bunch of "micro" brew labels with the big
corp name nowhere in sight.

A Japanese friend gave me a bottle of Suntory about 10 years ago and it was my
favorite whisky to share and talk about with others precisely because so
unknown. It was also very tasty.

~~~
Freak_NL
It's one of the main brands you can buy in any Japanese supermarket. It's also
quite good value for money.

------
crikli
I'm a Scotch/whisky nerd going on 10 years now. Particularly obsessed with
anything from Islay. 50+ bottle collection, mostly easy-to-find stuff but
there are a few rare expressions in there (Ardbeg 2009 Committee Release
Supernova is probably the most unobtainable). I'm a drinker, not a collector,
everything has been opened and consumed at least partially.

With that out there, I don't get the buzz over Japanese whisky. I've got
several solid, highly reviewed expressions, including the 2013 sherried
Yamazaki that Jim Murray put on the map. I've done several blind tasting with
friends, some of whom are afficionados and some of whom are not, and that
Yamazaki never comes out on top. If I do a sherry-finished flight more often
than not the sherried Kilchoman finishes first or second, with the Yamazki
usually beating the Glenmorangie Lasanta and not much else. Laphroaig PX
either wins or comes second to the Kilchoman.

Japanese whisky is good and they're consistently making the best whisky that's
not coming from the island. But (IMO, of course, this is completely non-
objective) the best expressions are still coming from Scotland.

~~~
solotronics
hey! I have some scotch questions if you don't mind. I really love Lagavulin 8
+ 16, Bunnahabhain 12, and Talisker 10. Less relevant I think McAllan 18 is
good and Balvenie 21 as well. What should I try that is similar to these?

Every scotch I tried that is less than about ~45-50 USD I really hated, is
there anything good that is cheap?

~~~
pvg
You are getting a lot of far too convoluted answers. The simple one is the
Ardbeg Corryvreckan. It checks the value box easily - at nigh-60% alcohol, you
can practically make two bottles of booze out of it by adding water. Taste and
smell? On consumption, it removes your ability to taste and smell anything
else making it incomparable and thus, the best whisky by default. Free bonus -
The Corryvreckan sounds a character from a bad TV adaptation of a bad Neil
Gaiman novel.

Also it will get you way drunk.

~~~
davidgould
I like all the Ardbegs, particularly An Oa which is creamy, the 10 year which
is refreshing (if any Islay can be called refreshing), and Uigeadail which is
more caramel sweet than the others. These are all big peaty whisky.

Corryvreckan ... is more so. Tasting notes: refinery, bed fire, shipwreck. The
distiller must have been out for a pint or five with the other distillers on
the island ragging him about "too much, over the top" and decided to show them
what "over the top" really was. Worth a try and good in its own way, but not
for everyday.

~~~
pvg
_decided to show them what "over the top" really was._

That is exactly what happened. "Did you say Glugglugvulin? Cory is IN. THE.
HOUSE."

------
tptacek
On the contrary, in Chicago, which admittedly has a pretty outstanding retail
market for whiskey, it has never been easier to buy Japanese whiskey. Nikka
Coffey Grain and even the Nikka Single Malts show up on the shelves at
Binneys, our neighborhood liquor chain.

What is probably true is that it's harder to get _Yamazaki_. Yamazaki had a
moment last year (I think?) when its Sherried Single Malt was named "best
whiskey in the world". One reason why whiskey enthusiasts hate this "best
whiskey in the world" nonsense is that it instantly turns brands into
collector items, which get hoarded for trade and resale value instead of
consumed by people who actually like whiskey.

But, whatever. Yamazaki was fine, but there's lots of good Japanese whiskey,
and in the no-age-statement era of single malts, it has never been easier to
get your hands on wine-casked whiskey expressions. It's a golden age. Enjoy
it!

~~~
ebikelaw
Same experience in Oakland. It has never been easier to find Japanese whiskey.
In fact all kinds of spirits have been having a renaissance around here; you
can get anything from anywhere including many local spirits. That’s on top of
the craft beer tidal wave.

~~~
electricslpnsld
> Same experience in Oakland.

Umami Mart on Broadway now has a really great selection of Japanese whiskey!
They also have some super weird Japanese beers.

> That’s on top of the craft beer tidal wave.

Ghosttown brewing in West Oakland shreds (and they have an amazing taco truck
staffed by the nicest old ladies in the world)!

I've been a bit underwhelmed by the other breweries in Oakland. :(
Federation's beers tend to be a bit skunky while OPBC's taste like water.
Rose's and Temescal are merely ok. Woods' beers are awesome, but I'm pretty
sure they are based in San Francisco.

~~~
ebikelaw
Yeah I don't know if there's all that many craft beers _in_ Oakland, but the
state is just crawling with them.

------
meddlepal
I miss being able to pickup Yamazaki 12 for $65. That said, while I like
Japanese Whiskey I find it more novelty than quality. It's a great
conversation piece for those not familiar with whiskey but I don't think it's
some kind of Nectar of the Eastern God's...

I do regret not purchasing the bottle of Yamazaki 18 I saw in a store a few
years back tho. Impossible to find nowadays.

~~~
ajmurmann
Funny enough that's the one enormous benefit of having a state run liquor
market in Oregon. I can search all liquor stores inventory and see that a
store nearby has Yamazaki 18 for $249.95. Is it worth that price?

~~~
tptacek
No, it is not. $250 will get you a _profoundly_ good bottle of Scotch, or a
Buffalo Antique with enough left over to spare for a GlenDronach 15.

I bought an Yamazaki 18 a couple years ago and liked it, but I've had $70
bottles of Scotch since then that were far more memorable.

------
paulsutter
Correct title, “Why Japanese Whiskey is so Trendy and Hard to Find”

Japanese whiskey hasn’t changed meaningfully in decades yet it’s become scarce
(even in Japan) in the last few years. Yes it’s good, but it’s not magically
distinctive as these instant aficionados suggest.

~~~
devy
To see how trendy Japanese Whiskey is, I did a Google search with keyword "Why
Japanese Whiskey is..." and there are at least a dozen articles from different
media writing the same thing as this OP's article.

~~~
zamadatix
Google Trends has some interesting data on this one, not only did it seemingly
come up for almost no interest but it's popular in the "hip" states:
[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=j...](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=japanese%20whiskey)

~~~
jonathanyc
More like popular in the more affluent states. That map is eerily similar to a
map of GDP per capita by state.

------
throwaway123032
The real reason: Chinese tourists buying anything that is "popular" and
"good", go to any places in Japan and it's overran and ruined by them. Lot's
of articles on that (google chinese tourist hibiki, plenty of results,
including ft.com articles)

~~~
umanwizard
Your tone makes it sound like this is something terrible. Why shouldn't
Chinese people have just as much right as anyone else to buy things they want,
if they have the money for it?

~~~
throwaway123032
Try to guess why they are called locusts.

~~~
thablackbull
Funnily enough I was just reading, locust is apparently a reference to the
evils of capitalism. From Bloomberg [1],

> Within hours of Heinrich Hiesinger stepping down as ThyssenKrupp AG chief
> executive last week amid pressure from activist investors, the talk turned
> to “locusts,” Germany’s catch-all term for the evils of Anglo-Saxon
> capitalism.

[1] [https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-10/hedge-
fun...](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-10/hedge-fund-locusts-
aren-t-the-cause-of-germany-s-ills)

~~~
throwaway123032
It's more a reference to what is going on in HK (infamous ads from 2012...)
and nearby countries. Baby formula is one example or straining the overall
health care.

------
Tomte
How do people get into whiskey, anyway?

My few contacts looked like this:

* About 15 years ago I visited a friend who was studying in Edinburgh. She didn't know too much about it, but got into drinking it now and then, and she showed me two or three types. I liked them, although the only thing I can differentiate is peat or no peat, more or less. And she told me that it's okay to put water in it. Blew my mind!

* Around the same time, three of my friends got into whiskey. A lot. I sometimes tasted a bit when I was at their home. Two of them (a couple) fell into that hole and are now proud owners of many, many bottles, club memberships of Scottish distilleries, special glasses, holiday trips to a dozen distilleries, magazine subscriptions, everything.

* Whenever I hear whiskey fans talk about the drink, I hear wine talk. "It's a bit like freshly mowed grass from the south side of the hill, and a lot of bananas afterwards" or stuff like that. It turns me off, but it seems to be obligatory to talk like that.

* Two years ago I was at a pretty renowned whiskey bar/store: lots of different whiskeys, very expensive ones behind a fence, the owner also travelling to whiskey fairs. I asked the waitress to recommend one, for a total beginner. She had no clue about what the bar had to offer and said "maybe try the offer of the day?". Probably a temporary worker, but still...

* A year ago I met my friends again when I came back home. There was a small whisky fair (think: fifteen stores/importers from around Germany, and I think Austria as well). That was the worst anti-PR you could imagine. First of all, again nobody could recommend something for a beginner and maybe explain why they recommended this or that. They just shoved something towards me. When I even dared to ask, because this whole affair was so embarassingly snobbish. I was cringing hard when my friend was "debating" the finer points of Gaelic pronunciation with an importer. Or when another importer didn't want to tell where the (brandlabelled?) whisky was from, instead doing a little quiz ("There is a creek where distillery X is located, and if you follow it upstream, there are Y other distilleries. It's the one with no letter "C" and a yearly output of less than Z litres" or something like that). This was simply a bunch of nerds showing how much smarter they were than their counterpart.

* So far I'm very rarely buying something, and if I do, it's from the supermarket, and for mixed drinks. Jim Beam, usually. Hate me!

~~~
tptacek
I guess I can hate you for mixing perfectly good Jim Beam into soda or
whatever, but other than that, what's the problem?

For American whiskey, just drink lots of cheap whiskey and figure out what you
like and don't like. Buy some Heaven Hill and some Knob Creek --- which is
aged Jim Beam --- and see if you have a preference between the two; if you
like the Knob Creek more, you like a little rye, and if you like the Heaven
Hill, explored wheated bourbon.

For Scotch, try Springbank (Campbelltown), Aberlour A'bunadh (Speyside), and
Bowmore (Islay). See which you like best.

If you're at a point where you have a particular kind of bourbon you like
(high-rye or wheated or whatever) and a particular kind of Scotch you like
(low peat or lots of sherry or whatever), then, I've got bad news for you:
relative to the population, you are officially "into whiskey". :)

Start cheap and stay cheap as long as you can. Get to a point where if you're
spending more than $30 for American whiskey or $60 for Scotch, you know
exactly where the money is going and why you're spending it. I think that's
the antidote to becoming a vanity whiskey weirdo.

~~~
pvg
_and Bowmore (Islay)._

Dyed-in-the-acrylic sock-hater.

------
paavoova
I have a strong skepticism towards aged spirits of any kind due to the
traditionalist nature of their production, as well as due to the inherent
biases involved in anything food or drink (e.g. wine tasting [1]). Aging is
solely a factor of temperature, pressure, and time. Rum aged in the Bahamas
ages quicker (by years) than that aged in cooler climates. Likewise, spirits
aged at, say, 0C will age very slow, if at all. It's like making tea, where
you can steep in cold water, but hot water expedites the process
significantly. So why don't any of these spirit producers use a heated
pressure chamber with some wood thrown in to "age" their spirits in hours
instead of years? The answer is because many countries impose regulatory
mandates that for X spirit to be labeled as such, it must be aged a minimum Y
time. This minimum can be years for some spirits. Thus producers are forced to
age traditionally regardless of the efficiency of their process. And you can't
sell your pressure-aged spirit as "120 Years" despite the chemical processes
involved being identical to traditional aging. Consumers might also perceive
such process as of lesser quality. It's a sham, and the value of supposed
quality spirits is artificially inflated by their arbitrary and involved
production process, as well as by consumer bias.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting)

~~~
kasey_junk
Bufalo Trace runs a ton of experimental runs of their Whiskey where they
change all manner of variables. You can pretty routinely find vertical or
horizontal tastings of their stuff to see what factors matter most to you.

The one I've found that seems to have the most flavor changes for the least
amount of 'bad outcomes' is smaller casks. But even that you can fairly easily
pick out once you've started finding your favorite flavor profiles.

Other distillers do the opposite, Makers Mark for instance is famous for
moving casks all over their rick houses to account for the differences in
heat/pressure/etc to get a more consistent flavor.

Lots of micro distillers are using 'modern' processes to get different flavors
out of their production.

Thats a long way of saying, I disagree with you about it being rare for
companies to mess with their production processes. Its quite common and the
stigma against it is going away, not being reinforced.

~~~
paavoova
I don't doubt that many producers aim to improve their process and flavor
profile and aim to modernize. But how can they when something like Scotch must
be aged 3 years in wood to be sold as such? That is, you can replicate the
traditional Scotch aging process in a pressure chamber in a matter of days,
and it tastes similar, and the chemical profile is similar, but you cannot
sell it as Scotch unless you stick it in a wooden barrel for years. It's
arbitrary and ridiculous.

But the article linked in the OP describes traditionalism. Nothing is stopping
these Japanese distillers from innovating and expediting the aging process. So
really, those low-stocks are artificially inflated in value.

Here is an interesting article [1]: _We put the distillate into a pressure
capable stainless steel tank and then we cut up the wood from the barrel into
measured segments. We control for size and shape and surface area and moisture
content and weight. Once Cleveland’s spirit is in the tank, the pressure is
ratcheted up and then plunged down to a near vacuum. Supposedly, the process
is similar to what happens when the temperature fluctuates in a rickhouse.
Although “essentially, we’re squeezing that wood much like a sponge,” Lix
says. “We pull a tremendous amount of flavor in a short time.” “By the
traditionalists, we’re considered heretics and what we’re doing is sacrilege,”
Lix continues. “We’ve been called the number one most hated bourbon distillery
among old-school whiskey drinkers.”_

Not only do these modern processes face regulatory restrictions in the market,
they face backlash from the consumers themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if
in a blind tasting, such pressure-aged spirits would fare favorably, but not
if their brand and process was known. There is too much biased involved for me
to appreciate any part of this industry and it as a hobby.

[1] [https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-scientific-
arms-...](https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/07/the-scientific-arms-race-to-
age-our-whiskey/)

~~~
tptacek
The trend in Scotch is strongly towards no-age-statement (NAS) expressions. If
they could reproduce aging in an Oloroso butt using pressure treatment, Diageo
would already be doing it. Scotch tends to be aged for at least 10 years; the
economics are such that even if they could just mix in pressure-aged
distillate to cut down the aggregate ratio of aging years/liters, they'd be
doing that, and still relating an "average age" over 10 years (which is
roughly what they claim for NAS single-malt now). But they do not. They don't
even do it for blends, where the distillates aren't even ostensibly traceable.

Is it possible that some technological approach will allow for radically
accelerated aging of Scotch? I sure hope so!

Is your subtext --- that all Scotch is basically the same product regardless
of how it's aged simply because someone has managed to extract phenylated
esters from chunks of wood --- valid? No, it obviously is not.

------
leoc
Interesting, but whiskey advice from a fellow who drinks all of his in
_highballs_?

~~~
AdmiralAsshat
Cut the guy some slack, this is a passion project of his. His day-job is
writing for videogaming blog Kotaku:
[https://kinja.com/brianashcraft](https://kinja.com/brianashcraft)

------
kevinconaway
Much like Pappy Van Winkle, its popular now because its popular. People want
what they can't have.

Good whiskey takes a while to mature (the lowest PVW ages for 15 years) so if
there is a spike in demand, producers cannot react quickly.

~~~
tptacek
Unlike Pappy van Winkle, Yamazaki is really quite good. 2 of the three Pappy
bottles I've had tasted like grass clippings, and the 3rd was pretty
unremarkable.

Also, careful with the aging comparisons. Single malt whiskey routinely ages
for over a decade and the really expensive stuff for significantly longer than
that. But Pappy is a bourbon, and it is unusual for bourbons to age for 15
years, not because it's expensive but because it's often counterproductive. I
think? several of the Buffalo Trace Antiques are even no-age-statement.

~~~
kasey_junk
I stopped drinking Van Winkle a while ago when the price to quality ratio when
sideways. That said, claiming it isn't good is a stretch. Its _very_ good
whiskey. Just not much better than a load of other _very_ good whiskey. That
said, when I was drinking it, I preferred the 12 year to all the other
expressions.

The sweet spot for bourbon seems to be in that 8-12 year market. Unfortunately
that stuff is basically the hardest to sell these days. It used to be that a 6
year bourbon was fairly easy to find (VOB for instance used to do that at
bottom shelf prices). But now thats treated like an antique. While if you have
12 year old barrels sitting around it makes sense to hold them until they are
into ridiculous ages for the collector market.

~~~
tptacek
We had at the old office a 15 and a 20, and they both tasted like grass
clippings. Not hay, not tobacco, just fresh, slightly sour cut grass. I think
that's how it's supposed to taste.

I've had a 23 in a glass and liked it fine, but I've had vanity whiskey that
completely blew my head off --- Thomas Handy, Stagg, Booker's Rye --- and the
Pappy wasn't one of them.

~~~
kasey_junk
I mean, I've had vanity Laphroag that only tasted of wood fire. Doesn't make
it not good. I certainly wouldn't pay for it but I'm not saying its bad
whiskey.

~~~
tptacek
I'm like 90% sure they make Laphroaig by distilling ground up burnt swamp
frogs. I'm comfortable saying it's bad.

(I'm off to Michigan this weekend and my plan is to spend a fixed % of the
price of the beach house we rented on whiskey, so this stuff is very top-of-
mind for me right now. Had this thread not occurred, I'm like 90% sure I'd
have gotten talked into buying Kavelan, so it's already a major win.)

~~~
kasey_junk
Try some of the micro distillers up and down the state of Michigan. Then judge
'bad' vs 'good' whiskey.

At the end of the day, not liking something and not believing it is
appropriate value are different than 'this stuff is broken'. Which seems to be
the state of lots of micro distilleries.

[edit] also, i didnt want to imply I didn't like the Kavalan only that
_everyones_ whiskey guy is selling that stuff in Chicago right now. I havent
actually tried it, mostly cause i blew my budget on mezcal a while back.

------
fhood
I really, really don't understand the expensive alcohol hobby. For those of
you that do, is it more about finding and trying cool stuff? Because I can
completely relate to that. I just feel like expensive alcohol is so transient,
and can't provide the same experience that the equivalently priced food could.

~~~
ritchiea
Actually at least in my experience the people into expensive alcohol tend to
like collecting it, which I find odd. I'm into food and I enjoy food with my
friends who are also into food (note I said food, it doesn't have to be
expensive, just good). My friends who are into expensive alcohol like having
huge stocks of expensive alcohol that they rarely or never drink because it's
expensive. Doesn't sound like much fun.

~~~
mikec3010
Unlike alcohol, food is generally perishable. Plus a (responsible) alcohol
connoisseur's consumption is more strictly throttled by his body.

~~~
ritchiea
It’s not stock in a public company or money in your IRA, it’s alcohol, drink
up & enjoy!

------
abalone
My friends were involved in popularizing this on the west coast, worked for
and with Yamazaki. This is a misleading title. The article says nothing about
why it’s “so good.” Only why it is hard to find. At best it mentions that
“People see Japanese whisky as a super premium product.” But this is pure
perception. The “goodness” is assumed. Rarity itself is proof positive.

I am not saying anything about the actual quality of Japanese whisky here (I
happen to like much of it). But I will note that the concepts of “good” in the
spirits world are very much influenced by subtle and not so subtle signals
like this article title, brand ambassadors, good stories, exclusivity,
“authenticity”, etc.

~~~
HillaryBriss
It seems like the article highlights the non-traditional things Japanese
whisky makers are doing (e.g. using woods other than oak in their barrels).

In other words, the Japanese whisky makers are successfully innovating and
exercising more creativity than most American and European whisky makers. And
it seems to be paying off in terms of flavor.

------
Isamu
>If it’s summertime and I’m eating Osaka’s soul food, then I’ll order a
highball. If I’m in a restaurant, I’ll order a proper highball in a glass, but
if I’m at the supermarket and we’re going to make takoyaki at home, then I’ll
just buy it in the can. Canned highballs are one of the great cheap drinking
pleasures of Japan.

I've wondered about this: anybody know if the highball-in-a-can is really
whiskey or a kind of shochu?

~~~
NorthOf33rd
I've consumed my fair share and wish so desperately that those would come
stateside. Based on taste I'd be pretty sure it's whiskey. Also, the english
language suntory site states that they are whiskey.

[https://www.suntory.com/brands/cannedkakuhighball/](https://www.suntory.com/brands/cannedkakuhighball/)

------
Sephiroth87
I lucked out and found a bottle of Hibiki 17 for very cheap last year, and
stocked some bottles of Yamazaki 12, when the stocking situation started
looking bad, but the actual discontinuation made me really sad, as those are 2
of my favourite whisky :(

------
throwaway2016a
Tip: if you happen to be in Boston or New Hampshire the state run store in
South Nashua, New Hampshire[1] typically has a fair amount of Japanese brands
in stock. I have a relative from Connecticut that is a whisky enthusiast and
every time he visits he stocks up since he can't find them down there.

Obviously not the ridiculously expensive ones but still hard to come by. I
wouldn't even know they were hard to come by if my relative hadn't told me.

[1] [https://goo.gl/maps/crkqY9Z1KgK2](https://goo.gl/maps/crkqY9Z1KgK2)

------
bitwize
For relaxing times, make it Suntory time.

EDIT: According to several articles, this Bill Murray bit from _Lost in
Translation_ is partially responsible for creating the current run on Japanese
whiskey. Small world.

------
southphillyman
Wabi in Venice Beach had a good selection when I was there. My biggest gripe
with all (non American) whiskey is price. Kind of hard to experiment when you
are looking at $20+ a glass.

------
twerpy_d
The reason it's hard to find is because the sherry cask Yamazaki won best
whiskey of the year a few years ago. It was a limited batch so everyone
started buying everything Japanese. The sherry cask that won used to go for
~150/bottle. Now it's $3k. Now I'm priced out of all of my favorite whiskies.
Fuck you, hipsters!@

------
ghostbrainalpha
TLDR: It takes a really long time to make Whiskey. It recently became more
popular and production is taking a long time to ramp up to meet the demand.

This results in price increases that reflect the increase in _scarcity_ more
than an increase in _quality_.

Followers of Rick and Morty and the McDonald's sauce debacle will be familiar
with the concept.

------
sxcurry
I stayed in a hotel in Kobe a couple of years ago. The room had mini bottles
of Yamazaki in it, and it turned out they were free, and replenished every
day! Neecdless to say, my wife and I took full advantage...

------
glitcher
Can anyone explain what is going on in the first image at the top of the
screen where there appears to be a barrel being rolled through fire?

~~~
kevinconaway
It looks like they are charring the barrel

[https://www.angelsenvy.com/guide/whiskey-history/why-
charrin...](https://www.angelsenvy.com/guide/whiskey-history/why-charring-
barrels-matters/)

> People have suggested that the inside of barrels were originally burnt to
> remove the leftover flavors of goods previously stored within, which sounds
> reasonable enough ... So why do barrel coopers still char the interior? ...
> Charring the wood actually primes the wood, which impacts the spirit’s
> flavor in several important ways that have nothing to do with smokiness ...
> charring essentially opens the wood up, making it easier for bourbon to
> extract flavors.

~~~
tptacek
Ironically, it's a little unlikely that Yamazaki barrels are charred. American
whiskey is aged in new oak, which is charred or toasted both to standardize
quality and also to bring out caramel and vanilla notes from the wood. But
single malt scotch is generally aged in used barrels and the barrels are
selected in part for the characteristics of what was aged in them before,
which is why the "best whiskey in the world" Yamazaki 18 Sherry Cask costs so
much. Charring is what you do, in Scotland, to an exhausted cask; it's also
something Scotch distillers work to mitigate in ex-bourbon casks.

~~~
wooster
The photo looks like it's of a cask firing at Ariake Sangyo [0], which
manufactures barrels for a variety of uses. About 10 percent of their barrels
go to domestic whiskey producers, and the rest to shochu. Yamazaki has their
own cooperage, so that barrel isn't going to them.

However, Yamazaki does use a variety of different barrels, including wine
casks for finishing, sherry casks, mizunara (Japanese oak) casks, new American
white oak puncheons, hogsheads made of used barrels, and ex-bourbon barrels.
AFAIK they use a variety of char levels on the barrels they produce in house
and on re-chars.

[0] [http://www.ariakesangyo.co.jp/](http://www.ariakesangyo.co.jp/), mis-
captioned as a distillery here: [https://www.masterofmalt.com/blog/post/qa-
brian-ashcraft-aut...](https://www.masterofmalt.com/blog/post/qa-brian-
ashcraft-author-of-japanese-whisky-the-ultimate-guide-to-the-worlds-most-
desirable-spirit.aspx)

------
fatjokes
I love whisky, particularly scotch. Japanese whisky is... fine. It's boring. I
like the strength of the peaty Islay whiskies.

------
VBprogrammer
Last time I drank Japanese Whiskey it ended in a sleep waking incident and
urinating on my flatmates feet.

I tend to avoid it now.

~~~
oh_sigh
You mean the last time you drank a bottle of whiskey by yourself right?

------
DeepYogurt
Is Japanese Whiskey hard to find? I've seen it everywhere from Hawaii to the
Netherlands.

------
rm_-rf_slash
I’ve had Japanese whiskey in the past, and honestly, nothing made me think
“Wow! If someone served me this without telling me what it is, I could tell
it’s Japanese in a heartbeat!”

I mean it was good but not groundbreaking compared to other whiskies. Like
drinking prosecco instead of champagne. I think it just is a matter of
personal preference.

~~~
tptacek
It's not supposed to taste "Japanese". It's supposed to taste good. Japanese
people are fiends for whiskey (it's one of their endearing cultural quirks),
and they are good at making it.

The interesting thing about Japanese whiskey is that they tend to produce
single malts or blends of single malt, just like Scotland, but their palates
are more American than Scottish. American whiskey is almost all bourbon and
rye --- lots of corn, lots of rye, not a lot of barley. Japanese whiskey, like
Scotch, is all malted barley --- but no smoke, no iodine, no salt.

You can sort of think of the Japanese whiskey industry as the single-malt
partner to the American whiskey industry, maybe the same way Ireland is the
non-malted partner to Scotland.

------
Ftuuky
Unorthodox opinion but here it goes: people like to pretend they know a lot
about wines and whiskeys and that they have skills to identify and taste them
but they're just being pretentious or don't know where to spend money. As long
as the wine comes from an old caste and the whiskey follow strict procedures
it's all the same thing. People want to look sophisticated but when
blindfolded then can't even distinguish between red and white wine if they're
at same temperature.

Same thing for musical instruments. It's all branding, marketing hype for
hipsters and some sort of placebo effect.

~~~
Balero
"People want to look sophisticated but when blindfolded then can't even
distinguish between red and white wine if they're at same temperature." I hope
you're exaggerating here!

I largely agree, the best wines I've every had came out of a box. I read about
a bunch of wine critics who did some blind tests and chose a discount wine
over much more expensive ones.

Frankly if you get a half decent drink and put whatever effort you would have
put into getting a better one into having a good time with good people you're
on to a winner.

~~~
Spellman
re: red vs white wine, Nope! Not exaggerating!

Several studies have shown wine is crazy subjective, and both novices and
experts have been fooled before by changing the colors (dye) and bottles. Most
people also have trouble blindfolded unless they are particularly experienced.

~~~
lazerpants
I don't really buy this, I'm an amateur wine snob at best, and blindfolded I
had absolutely no trouble telling apart white wines and red wines. In fact, no
one at my table of 4, the other 3 having less knowledge of wine than I do, had
any trouble whatsoever with red v. white, and all of us were close to right
with region or grape variety. The only kicker was a rose champagne which
everyone thought was a prosecco.

~~~
perl4ever
From what I've read in this thread, I infer that the study involved _telling_
blindfolded people that white was red, or vice versa, and people were induced
to rationalize their perceptions. The classic Asch conformity experiments[1]
did not prove people can't tell the length of lines, did they?

[1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments)

