

Introducing The Microsoft Puppet - atularora
http://parislemon.com/post/3237400800/introducing-the-microsoft-puppet

======
jsz0
I think the assumption that Android would be a 'easier and safer bet' is a bit
shortsighted. Nokia would be just another Android device maker competing with
dozens of companies offering basically the same exact product except it would
have a Nokia logo and some Nokia skin installed. That might have worked 2
years ago but I think it's too late now. There are established players in the
Android space. How can Nokia beat HTC or Motorola if they are essentially
selling the same product? Things like Zune Pass, Xbox integration, and
potentially tight integration with Windows client/server could be a big
competitive advantage. These are things Nokia could not do on their own.
Google isn't going to piss off Samsung/HTC/Motorola by playing favorites with
Nokia either. Worst case is the partnership doesn't work out and 3 years from
now Nokia is puking out Android handsets. Strategically I think it's better to
take a big risk early and have a solid Plan B to fallback on. Nokia can afford
to take the risk now.

~~~
fungi
as far as i can see nokia could differentiate themselves a hell of alot more
and with far more confidence with android then with ms win mobile.

now nokia is dependent on microsoft to let them differentiate. and while
android is open source there is less scope for google to "play favorites" then
with win mobile, i.e. there is "no freedom fork" anything, microsoft is
perfectly within their rights to go play favorites with Samsung/HTC/Motorola
(just as they are now apparently doing with nokia).

but i have heard what you are saying a few times now so i would like to know
why/how microsofts tightly controlled platform will deliver nokia greater
power to differentiate themselves?

edit: found this
[http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=3...](http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1992208&cid=35183600)
which does _partially_ cloud my puritanical open source views of the world.

~~~
jsz0
Android may be open source but realistically how far can anyone diverge while
maintaing compatibility, consistency, and the ability to push updates out in a
timely fashion? At least with Microsoft they are entering a formal agreement.
All these details have probably been worked out. Microsoft may have offered to
let Nokia into the inner-circle of WM development. They may have agreed to
have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for customizations. Hard to
say without knowing all the details but it's doubtful Google would have agreed
to the same terms since they simply don't need Nokia.

It reminds me of this story about K-9 developers wanting to re-integrate some
of their enhancements back into ASOP and Google's response was basically
'nahhh' or Google giving Motorola sweetheart access to Honeycomb while leaving
other tablet makers moaning & groaning on the CES floor. Those types of things
probably contributed to Nokia's choice. Nokia wants to be actively involved in
OS development. Their own efforts failed. Nokia being a somewhat old fashion
sort of company was probably not comfortable with the uncertainty behind
Google's rather blackbox-ish control of Android. In an ironic way Microsoft
was actually offering more flexibility and openness of development plus all
the perks of free marketing dollars, joint promotions, and generally being
treated like a first class citizen with a contract to define the exact terms
of the relationship.

~~~
fungi
> They may have agreed to have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for
> customizations. Hard to say without knowing all the details

if thats true

> In an ironic way Microsoft was actually offering more flexibility and
> openness of development

then yes that would be the case.

personally i doubt that microsoft gave up any significant control of win
mobile and there has been little evidence to suggest it has. that said
microsoft would not want nokia going on about how they get to do what they
want with ms win mobile as that would only discourage investment in the
platform by Samsung/HTC/LG who ms still need as it will be a good 18~24 months
before nokia is shipping significant volumes.

~~~
ks
According to Engadget, "[Nokia] has been given the liberty to play around
inside WP7 to its heart's content".

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206238>

------
xentronium
What the hell is with all that anti-microsoft hatred. I'm really tired of
reading articles about how MSFT took NOK over and are gonna screw them big
time for free. It's like seventh or eighth article in hn top with that mood.

Alliance with Microsoft seems to be the only sensible choice for Nokia at the
moment. True story.

~~~
SwellJoe
"Alliance with Microsoft seems to be the only sensible choice for Nokia at the
moment. True story."

Many people disagree with you. Imagine that.

I suspect you're not old enough to remember the fate of some other Microsoft
"partners" of this sort.

~~~
rodh257
Got some examples?

~~~
p0ppe
Asymco has a fairly good list; [http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-
microsofts-prev...](http://www.asymco.com/2011/02/11/in-memoriam-microsofts-
previous-strategic-mobile-partners/)

~~~
rodh257
Most of those examples are basically "company x tried to sell a Windows Mobile
phone back when smart phones weren't anywhere near the market they are today,
and when Windows mobile was very average and it didn't work out." Hardly seems
like Microsoft was at fault for anything other than not making a better
Windows Mobile. And most of the companies in that list were notorious for
selling poor quality phones anyway, regardless of the software.

Partnerships don't work out, but there doesn't seem to be many examples in
that list of Microsoft leaving those partners out to dry, it's just a case of
the product wasn't good enough (from both Microsoft and the phone
manufacturers).

------
mrkurt
Gosh that seems like such an easy coup to pull off. I wonder why Microsoft
hasn't stuffed more of their short tenure employees into management at other
companies for discreet takeover purposes.

~~~
yuhong
I remember the fiasco with Yahoo, where DOJ declared the Google/Yahoo deal
anti-competitive. Unfortunately the problem was that they forgot that Yahoo
was already not a real competitor anymore. Anyway, thanks to the deal's
failure, the takeover by Carl Icann was allowed to proceed. And exactly that
kind of coup happened during the takeover.

------
astrodust
When SGI switched from IRIX to Windows, or when HP switched from HP/UX to
Windows, or when DEC switched to Windows...

What a trail of bodies.

The *NIX community should've banded together to make a POSIX-like standard for
graphical applications and they would've maintained their position as a viable
platform. X isn't enough, it's too low-level. Something at least on par with
OpenStep is required.

------
rodh257
This seems pretty far fetched to me. It's also likely that Elop just realizes
(perhaps more so given his background) how much Microsoft wants to be a major
player in this game, how much money and talent they're willing to throw at it
and knows that there's an opportunity for someone to be there and 'ride the
bear' as they go forward. (Ride the bear being a reference to what
Gates/Ballmer said they did in Microsofts early days with IBM
<http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part2.html>)

------
j_baker
Thank _god_. I thought the Microsoft puppet was going to be the next Microsoft
Bob/Clippy/Search dog.

------
maxharris
Nokia being Microsoft's puppet is not necessarily bad. Apple was NeXT's
puppet, and this worked incredibly well.

Perhaps this case will indeed lead to failure, but to show that, you have to
point to some specific problem (and there seem to be many) with Microsoft
and/or Nokia other than the fact that they are closely tied now.

~~~
beagle3
Apple paid NeXT to take them over, and got their CEO installed in place of
Apple's. A guy called Steve Jobs, you might have heard of him. NeXT knew what
they were doing (hardware, software)-wise, and Apple at that point in time
didn't.

Whereas Microsoft have no idea how to phones (Kin, anyone?); the jury is still
out on the phone software but it doesn't look good (iOS and Android are
mopping the floor with WP7). And if Ballmer is installed as CEO of Nokia, I'm
going to short it.

------
yuhong
I first read about it on Techrights, back when I was still reading it. I think
it dates back to when it was called "Boycott Novell".

~~~
tzs
Boycott Novell/Techrights also has claimed that Microsoft has infiltrated and
taken over: HP, NPR, the BBC, the Department of Education, the White House,
VMWare, TED, Facebook, the French government, NBC, the New York Times, the
Huffington Post, Samsung, Canonical, the United Nations, and a whole bunch of
other companies, governments, newspapers, and magazines.

~~~
yuhong
To various extents and with varying effects, BTW.

------
barista
I don't think it is tht simple. Nothing that was announced mentioned
exclusivity either to MSFT or NOK. This means that they are open to walk away
in GOOG's arms if this thing does not work out for them.

Though the events make it seems like so. I think that's just a conspiracy
theory.

~~~
joe_the_user
I think there's a lot of frustration venting. I'm frustrated. Nokia's move
leaves a lot of open source initiatives dangling as well as a lot of jobs
lost. Maybe it's a harsh but necessary act to save the company or some part of
it. But maybe it's just a harsh and foolish act which will cause in harm both
the long and short term harm to all involved.

I have to admit that I can't say for certain which it will be in the end. But
I can understand how all those who fear being hurt by it would have a tendency
to believe the later choice.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
Would the jobs and open source projects be in a better place if Android was
chosen instead?

~~~
spudlyo
Perhaps. If Android was chosen Nokia could put many of their displaced Symbian
developers to work on a Nokia application ecosystem and services platform.
This would allow them to use Android without having to pay Google.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
It's my understanding that the payments to Google are for access to their
built-in apps and services (without which an Android phone seems like
something less).

------
yanw
Word of the day: "Entryism".

