
How I’m Handling My Depression Using an App - stuffaboutpete
https://medium.com/@stuffaboutpete/how-i-m-handling-my-depression-ea9bb285a073#.k0tyrvgj8
======
stephenbez
It sounds like what the author is looking for is accountability. It was
difficult, but I eventually found a reliable person on Craigslist to call me
daily to check-in on my progress towards my goals and habits.

I had a lot of success with this and eventually started a business to make it
easier for other people to sign up for daily personal check-in calls:

[http://www.personalcheckin.com/](http://www.personalcheckin.com/)

(I later sold the company when I realized the difficulty of scaling up phone
calls, though I still am a happy client!)

~~~
_xander
This is a neat project. How much did you sell the company for and how much
money were you making prior to the sale? I recognise that both those questions
could be invasive. A ballpark-figure is fine and I won't be offended if you
decide not to answer.

------
p4wnc6
I used to use Moodscope to record daily subjective ratings in some key areas,
like whether I felt "strong" or "productive" or "powerless" or "scared".

The process of entering the data about myself each day actually made me
significantly more depressed, because it was like a constant reminder of how
depressed I was, and how the external circumstances that caused my depression
weren't changing (even when I was doing all of the things I could do from my
end, like exercise, see friends, listen to music, and so on).

So we should keep in mind that this sort of thing isn't a panacea. In some
cases, at least, it could make things worse rather than better.

~~~
neverknowsbest
Same experience here; while attempting to isolate the factors that made for
low days in order to avoid them, I instead experienced a significant increase
in low days-- probably because I had to actually assess my mood.

A neutral mood, open to becoming either "good" or "bad" if not closely
inspected, would invariably be categorized as "bad", and once labelled, remain
that way for the rest of the day (or into the next day/sleep if recorded at
night).

I've found stepping back every month or so to reflect on positive things is
helpful, but doing anything with too much granularity has only encouraged self
depreciating and neurotic thoughts.

------
double0jimb0
Hi Pete, I used same approach somewhat successfully for a couple months. One
suggestion on that front:

Might want to add a "Burns Depression Checklist" questionnaire to your daily
polling, it's a single number that will reflect mood, easier for charting and
trend analysis:
[http://healingheartscc.com/docs/first_steps/FS_DepressionQui...](http://healingheartscc.com/docs/first_steps/FS_DepressionQuiz.pdf)

If, and a big if, in a couple months you start to lose faith that you will
never be able to make meaningful change to the "core" of what is leading to
your depression, here is an alternative thought:

The you who you think you are "un-depressing" isn't really real. You may be
largely, if not wholly, one giant movement of habit. And one key factor of
habits is they don't really stand being reasoned with by your conscious mind.
If you explore this and come to find it true, then the game becomes how to
change habits that are not super constructive (ones you associate with
depression). The game is won when you (aka your giant movement of habit) does
the thing without your conscious mind ever coming into play. That's the key.

Sounds like you are having a tough time getting out of bed feeling motivated,
this was my kryptonite too. Here is a superb strategy that worked for me, and
works because it gets your thinking/conscious mind out of the path to success,
as just described above.

[http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/04/how-to-get-up-
right...](http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/04/how-to-get-up-right-away-
when-your-alarm-goes-off/)

Hope helps!

~~~
kr4
Hey your comment sounded lot like the ideas I got from OM Swami's article and
book I refered in my comment
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10613241](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10613241)

You may wish to check that out. Extensive reading on Yogic prospective of
depression, involving body, consciousness and soul.

------
continents
Thanks for the article! Our team (Iodine) is actually doing something similar
specifically for people taking antidepressants, so it's cool to see that one
of your top priorities is taking your meds on time every day.

One of the main reasons we created our app, Start, is because a lot of people
aren't getting enough support or info (whether from their doctors, friends or
online) about how they're doing. It's super important for people to feel
empowered and have the right tools to get better. Our app has daily pill
reminders and check-ins to help people track their mood and how their (custom)
goals and issues are holding up. Then every 2 weeks they get a progress report
so they can see how they've been doing.

We're inspired by your idea and would love feedback on our app as well – you
can check it out here: www.iodine.com/start. You can reach us directly at
start@iodine.com :)

------
weee_username
I like this approach, and am also relieved it's part of an overall strategy
that included professional help.

Depression has caused serious damage to my relationships -- it causes me to
experience apathy towards those I care about, irritability, aggression and
self-harm. I would throw myself into my work and constantly shifting hobbies,
basically anything where I didn't have the time to think about other things.

These symptoms, apparently, are fairly common in men who are experiencing
depression and one of the reasons it can go undiagnosed.

~~~
joshmn
> and am also relieved it's part of an overall strategy that included
> professional help.

I think that part is the most key to success for this type of strategy.

------
et2o
This is really cool and a great idea! Do you know any psychiatrists who could
help you come up with a really good list of questions to ask and things to
track? I'm just a medical student but I could probably put you in touch with a
good one or help you come up with questions.

Basically my thoughts are that we have some reliable screening tools for
depression that have been evaluated for specificity and sensitivity... maybe
questions from those could be incorporated into this. I don't think anyone has
done frequent tracking of responses like this could offer.

Maybe you could even add cognitive behavioral therapy exercises?

~~~
chvid
Agreed - this is a great idea; I would try and keep it simple though. Just
have an app that recorded psychological health indicators with the diagnosis
and treatment left out.

There are so many approaches in psychology that with settling one particular
would narrow the audience too much.

------
rsingla
Ever heard of BoosterBuddy? It's is a free app designed to help teens and
young adults improve their mental health.

While I can't comment on the efficacy of using apps for mental health, the
idea is currently being done by the Vancouver Island Health Authority, here in
British Columbia. The development was done through engaging with youth and
health professionals.

While this isn't targeted at adults, something similar may work!

------
codezero
This is great, and I am very happy he also makes it very clear that anyone
suffering depression (or any other mental health issue) should see a
professional.

The stigma associated with getting professional mental health help can't go
away fast enough.

------
LordHumungous
I made an app to help me with my problem. I open it and it says "Don't drink,
fuckface"

~~~
wicker
Just ignore me if you were joking, but do I have a serious question about
exactly this. I've considered doing something like this for myself. Not an
app, but I thought I might wrap my credit card in a bit of cardboard that says
"Wait! Think! What are you doing?" as a speed bump against my compulsive
spending.

Does this actually work for you? Do you open the app and it says "Don't drink,
fuckface." and you're like "oh, right, OK. I won't." Or do you just blow right
past it? I used to work in a shop with gruesome safety posters on the wall at
work but after a couple of weeks, I stopped noticing them. I figure this would
turn out to be something like that.

~~~
evincarofautumn
This used to be my home page, for a while: [https://www-
zeuthen.desy.de/~nkelhos/focus/](https://www-zeuthen.desy.de/~nkelhos/focus/)

It was a useful reminder, not to avoid online distraction, but to address the
issues (primarily stress) that made me distracted in the first place. Similar
tactics have helped me abstain from drinking excessively.

I imagine this sort of thing would work for any compulsive behaviour—interrupt
the symptom, but mainly so that you’re more mindful of fixing the cause.

~~~
DiabloD3
That home page... I love it. That is the best thing I've seen all day.

------
scythe
Background on depression:

[http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
conditions/depression/bas...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-
conditions/depression/basics/definition/con-20032977)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder)

Please don't guess at remembering something you read on buzzfeed.

------
rosspanda
I run a side project called [http://moodpanda.com](http://moodpanda.com) ,
people rate their mood an a simple scale and other members give feedback, I
think the feeback is what keeps people coming back to our app, not the rating
part but the feedback they get from others.

------
meesterdude
I have built something similar, but don't have it configured to do quite the
same things, although it certainly could. It's more a generic platform that
these kinds of things could happen if you configured them to, so it could work
for individuals as well as companies, for example. But I don't have a support
structure in place that will come to my rescue when i'm feeling blue. It's
just me, my emotions and my behavior.

A lot of people find benefit in quantification; I do not. While I have my
house wired with doorbells that correlate to todos in my app so it knows when
i have/have not done something; its really my own psychology or philosophy
that has the biggest impact on when I do something. Everything else is more
for management.

------
sharp11
This is a really interesting case study. I'd encourage you to continue to
document it and share it widely. The fact that you aren't trying to do it all
through the app, but that the app is part of the support network is very cool.
Thanks for sharing this!

------
hightechlowlife
"For me, depression is caused by a lack of productivity".

It is beyond me that such a statement can be expressed seriously. I strongly
suggest the author look beyond "I'm not working hard enough" as the key reason
for his mental illness.

~~~
hliyan
With respect, I think we should take the patient point of view more seriously
than our own (us not having examined the patient or more damningly, not having
any training in psychiatry). Lack of productivity _can_ on occasion lead to a
feeling of worthlessness which can exacerbate depression.

~~~
hightechlowlife
It's true, I'm not a psychiatrist and don't know him. It's also obvious that
achieving things helps us feel better. I'm trying to suggest that, instead of
focusing on productivity as the final solution and trying to hack it into his
life, perhaps look at the factors causing his difficulties. For example, the
fact that he works alone, or does a sedentary job -- both of which are massive
risk factors for depression.

~~~
rhizome
We're stuck with his articulation, but I can see how that would seem to be the
case. Personally, I see lack of productivity as a _symptom_ of depression, but
it's not for no reason that there's a saying, "the devil makes work for idle
hands."

------
DanieBowman
Natural processes are the best way to cure depression. I battled depression
for years, and I am so grateful that I managed to fight that daemon off. For
anyone suffering from depression, I recommend something that has helped me a
lot. It is James Gordon’s system at
[http://lookingupstuff.com/mentalhealth/2015/02/06/how-to-
des...](http://lookingupstuff.com/mentalhealth/2015/02/06/how-to-destroy-
depression/) He is a former depression sufferer, and teaches a totally natural
7 step process which relieves depression from your life.

~~~
amelius
I appreciate the link, but I don't understand why, in this day and age, we
should pay for a self-help book (or "system") to cure a depression.

If depression can be cured with information alone, this information should be
freely available on the internet!

------
stuffaboutpete
Wow. Thank you all for your time and words. I've had a great amount of
responses both here and on Medium and I've had a huge amount of people
emailing me directly - presumably because of the sensitive nature of the
subject.

For these reason, instead of replying to every comment right now I will write
a follow up post which discussions much of the feedback, suggestions,
alternatives and offers of help. I hope that you will read it.

I will however then come back and reply to specifics here and respond to every
email.

Thanks a lot for your support and stay strong if you're in a low position. Try
to find solace in the fact that you aren't alone.

------
rl3
The author's approach is brilliant in that it exists at a layer above the
productivity tools and techniques themselves, to check if they're being
employed effectively (if at all).

I can also relate to his experience. Momentum is everything.

Getting into a productive state is hard, and once you start losing momentum,
the deceleration tends to snowball. Next thing you know, you have no momentum,
and depression is there waiting to pick you apart like a vulture. Becoming
productive again is now harder because you're depressed from not being
productive. It's a vicious cycle that feeds into itself.

------
blairanderson
This is fun. Did I miss a link to the app or source code?

------
hliyan
Coincidentally, just the other day I was looking in the PlayStore for apps
that dispense small 1-4 sentence quanta of mood-altering advice based on the
user's reported state of mind. I couldn't find any. I'm considering writing
something simple of this nature. Question: does such a thing exist and if not,
is it a worthwhile exercise at all?

~~~
azinman2
Look at ginger.io -- their cognitive behavior therapy has been shown to be
statistically significant. It's what you're looking for either now or in a
future version of their app.

~~~
hliyan
That seems interesting. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to allow individual
signups [https://ginger.io/for-
individuals/#getinvolved](https://ginger.io/for-individuals/#getinvolved)

~~~
azinman2
For now... although I believe you can still download their app in the android
store.

------
mbrock
I just realized I cannot remember the last time I felt happy in any simple or
robust way. I don't know what it would be like.

------
anthonye
Anyone know of similar services for people recovering from addictions? Has a
lot of similarity with accountability - wanting other people to be notified
when certain indicators are present.

------
azinman2
Guess he doesn't know about ginger.io -- it does all this and much more about
intelligently using your phone's sensors to know when you're behavior patterns
are off.

~~~
bcjordan
Distinction is alerts are sent to your healthcare providers versus friends and
family for casual interventions as OP describes.

------
rotorblade
I find this approach quite interesting, I'm not depressed myself (I have not
been diagnosed with clinical depression, at least) but I am diagnosed with an
anxiety disorder.

At first glance this sort of approach seems also to be applicable to some
anxiety disorders, but from how I understand cognitive behavioural therapy,
applying such a method might be a bad thing to do...

Some anxiety disorders makes you, such as mentioned in the article, "[...]
procrastinate over all kinds of jobs from the most basic domestic tasks to the
really important stuff [...]". One consequence can be that you rely on others
to make you do them. For example if you have an anxiety disorder and you get
anxious over planning a trip, you might tell a friend to help you do it. Now
the anxiety could take another form, which makes you get anxious if you have
not had your plan, as in this example, reviewed by a friend.

This could make it worse; You have task X that makes you anxious (planning
trips, in the example), you invent task Y (seeking help from a friend, in the
example) to relieve your anxiety for that task, but now when you try to
perform task X, you get anxious if you have not done Y. Meaning to solve the
underlying problem of breaking your behavioural pattern, you have to not only
solve the behavioural pattern that makes you anxious over X, but also stop
using Y, which was not there from the beginning (or might have been enhanced
from applying this new behavioural pattern).

This is how I have come to understand a part of cognitive behavioural therapy,
and I could definitely see how, if I were to use an app like this, I would
start using it to relieve my anxiety by inventing a new behavioural pattern
(i.e. using the app) that does not solve the problem, but instead induces
anxiety over not using the app.

This article makes me then wonder, could a similar thing happen to someone
with depression? (EDIT: Perhaps like p4wnc6 mentions in a comment below.)

It was pointed out to me that there might be a form of an app however that
might be good in the realm of cognitive behavioural therapy in application to
anxiety. One method of facing your problem is to get a realistic view of your
expectations and realise your behavioural patterns to be able to break them.
For example, one method is to have a thought-diary, where you record your
thoughts on a regular basis so that, even without reviewing past entries, you
at least start consciously thinking about what thoughts are, for example,
inducing anxiety. So perhaps a tool that would help you recognize
thought/behavioural patterns would be more safe (in the sense of the
philosophy of cognitive behavioural therapy) to use.

------
corndoge
"I do know the solution. And many of you healthy thinkers will be way ahead of
me on this. In its simplest form the solution is to do stuff. Do the basic
stuff like getting up, cleaned and dressed promptly at a sensible time,
keeping on top of my laundry etc...

The flip side of feeling awful when I don’t do these things is that I feel
incredible when I do."

If the author feels incredible when he accomplishes a task -- any task at all
-- I wonder as to the severity of his depression.

Neat concept for the app though.

~~~
catshirt
especially considering a classic symptom of depression is the inability to
accomplish these tasks.

~~~
jimktrains2

        In addition, according to the DSM-5 -- a manual used to diagnose mental health conditions -- you may have other symptoms with major depression. Those symptoms might include:
    
        * Fatigue or loss of energy almost every day
        * Feelings of worthlessness or guilt almost every day
        * Impaired concentration, indecisiveness
        * Insomnia or hypersomnia (excessive sleeping) almost every day
        * Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in almost all activities nearly every day (called anhedonia, this symptom can be indicated by reports from significant others)
        * Restlessness or feeling slowed down
        * Recurring thoughts of death or suicide
        * Significant weight loss or gain (a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month)
    

No, depression does not mean you're a recluse who does nothing with your life.
It means you struggle to feel happy or pleasure. It means you view every fault
and failing as more proof that you're worthless.

Please stop spreading dangerous FUD. Anyone who feels that they my have
depression, or any mood disorder, should see a doctor, regardless of if they
feel it's "minor".

There is no stigma in having a mood disorder or seeing a
psychologist/psychiatrist. Please stop acting as if there is one.

~~~
catshirt
> _" No, depression does not mean you're a recluse who does nothing with your
> life."_

i never implied anything of the sort.

> _" There is no stigma in having a mood disorder or seeing a
> psychologist/psychiatrist. Please stop acting as if there is one."_

sorry, but i think you may have accidentally responded to the wrong post all
together. i have no other way to reconcile how completely irrelevant your
response to my comment is. without getting into the details, i'm even somewhat
offended by the assumptions you've made about my beliefs and personal
experiences.

the list of symptoms you posted even support my original statement.

~~~
jimktrains2
I responded to

> especially considering a classic symptom of depression is the inability to
> accomplish these tasks.

You are perpetuating an incorrect and dangerous view of depression by implying
it only exists if you cannot function entirely.

> > > "No, depression does not mean you're a recluse who does nothing with
> your life."

> i never implied anything of the sort.

How so? "classic symptom of depression is the inability to accomplish these
tasks." seems to imply that depression means unable to meet with friends or
accomplish any task.

> without getting into the details, i'm even somewhat offended by the
> assumptions you've made about my beliefs and personal experiences.

ditto.

~~~
catshirt
i simply posit that there exists a severity of depression at which waking up,
getting dressed, and getting in the shower are out of question. do you
disagree?

furthermore, i suggest there exists a severity of depression that cannot be
managed or mitigated by _using an app to get things done_. do you disagree?

in no way did i "imply" getting dressed and depression are mutually exclusive.
i didn't imply anything at all, for that matter. the connotations are your
own. if i can directly address your assumption: _just because you don 't
exhibit a symptom does not mean you don't have [some thing]_. i never
suggested otherwise.

~~~
nekopa
One thing I would like to point out is that his app isn't for getting things
done. It's for letting his support network know that he might need help, but
is unable to directly ask for it.

------
SphericalEarth
You should try thefabulous.co

------
hacker_9
There's an app for that.

------
kr4
If you'd like to read yogic prospective on depression [0] is a good start. [1]
is a book on the same by the article's author Om Swami.

However, let me warn you that this will venture you into concepts of human
body you have likely not heard of and which has not been studied extensively
by modern medical science. However, it's heavily researched and applied at
least for thousands of years in India etc.

>>> Depression is a state of mind. It is not a physical ailment; it is not a
neurological disorder and it is rarely a malfunctioning of the brain. It is
strictly a condition of the mind. And mind pervades your whole body and
beyond. It is for this reason that pacification of the mind calms the whole
body just like its restlessness upsets the whole system. Severity of
depression can be ascertained from the symptoms of the patient. While I am
using the term patient, that truly is an oxymoron. There really cannot be a
“patient” for depression because it is not a “disease” that one can suffer
from. It is simply a mismatch of the colliding psychic imprints (vāsanā) also
known tendencies of the mind. Mind cannot malfunction for the true nature of
mind is pure bliss (ānanda) and beyond all subjective characterizations and
dualities (dvanda).

....

A pertinent question: what causes depression? Depression is a state of mind.
It originates in the causal body. The mind has become a victim of its own
latent tendencies. It can happen from curbing your desires or an unfulfilling
life, both of which are caused by ignorance of the conditioned mind. A lot of
people lead an unfulfilling life; some choose to ignore the voice of the soul
while many others drown it in material pursuits. But, one day it catches up.

....

If you are not taking anti-depressants currently, half the job is already
done. Please do not start taking such pills. They are soporific substances
designed to artificially pacify your brain creating the illusion of a calm
mind. Gradually, their dosage needs increasing as your brain gets used to it.

To not only completely get rid of depression but feel fitter than you have
ever been, you need to cover all three aspects: body, consciousness, and the
soul. <<<<

0: [http://omswami.com/2011/10/depression-definition-cause-
and-c...](http://omswami.com/2011/10/depression-definition-cause-and-
cure.html) 1: [http://omswami.com/2015/08/when-all-is-not-
well.html](http://omswami.com/2015/08/when-all-is-not-well.html)

~~~
klibertp
> Please do not start taking such pills.

[EDIT: of course, if you're able to undertake therapy without the help of
medication, you should definitely do it! I'm talking about severe depression
below.]

I really wish I could downvote you more than once, just because of this
sentence. It's downright irresponsible to say such things.

While depression may be a psychological problem in most cases, it is not
always so. There are genuine neurological reasons for depression, and trying
to "heal" these without the help of medication won't work. Moreover, with
strong depression, it's impossible to even start any kind of non-
pharmaceutical treatment. Really, people who say "don't take pills, just
meditate/sing psalms/exercise/or something" don't know what they're talking
about. The whole point of depression is that the patient has _no desire_ to
get better, he just _won 't_ meditate, no matter what you say. Or he will try
it once if you're lucky and then get back to doing whatever his depression
makes him do (you're lucky if it's simply doing nothing instead of trying to
commit suicide).

Medication - ideally - makes a depressed person able to start recovering. It
makes depression symptoms lessen to some extent, hopefully enough for a
patient to be able to work with a psychologist.

Depression is a very severe illness. It's not "feeling sad from time to time".
It's an illness which leads to death in some cases! It's a very serious
condition, and saying otherwise, saying it's easy to fight against it if you
know some "techniques" or other is actively harming people with this
condition. Please stop doing that.

