
I'd like to invest my time in your startup - monkeymeister
http://www.monkeymeister.com/2013/05/id-like-to-invest-my-time-in-your-startup/
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tptacek
Giving equity to contractors is a bad idea. Contractors can't vest, and you're
effectively granting unlimited upside in exchange for the assumption of very,
very little risk (he's literally promising "evenings and weekends" time) and
the delivery of transactional services.

A better plan for an offer like this is deferred compensation.

~~~
monkeymeister
Of course there's risk - very large risk. The fact I'm willing to subscribe
contractually to a minimum number of hours in return for a small percentage of
what could potentially turn out to be nothing should the startup go belly up.
That's the fun of it - I'm along for the ride - not looking to make a quick
buck.

That's why deferred compensation isn't of interest.

~~~
gfodor
People who work on their own startups on evenings and weekends aren't
generally considered to be taking a very large risk. People who'd do
contracting for equity in other startups where there is already some traction
likely less so since there is more likelihood of those startups being
successful.

Also your post implies you are looking to do this for multiple startups. Not
only does this kind of send a bad message that you'd not be that invested in a
company you literally owned, but it also reduces your risk profile since you
are trying to "diversify."

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ahk
Don't startup advisors like Tim Ferris do basically the same thing?
Advice/market/time for a small amount of equity? The only difference here
seems to be that it's developer skills instead.

~~~
austinl
Advisors should provide connections to get your business to the next stage.
Whether that means helping you land a Series A or getting you intros to
business partners, it's typically worth a lot more than dev skills - which is
why they can justify taking equity.

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gfodor
I hate to be that guy, but part time, evenings and weekend only, remote
workers who want equity and not hourly/project compensation are basically the
exact opposite of the type of employment arrangement startup founders are
probably interested in. I'd be happy to proven wrong but sounds like a pretty
raw deal for founders, since this type of arrangement not only dilutes them or
takes from the options pool (which, if they are funded, is a _much bigger
deal_ than paying the person) but also introduces all kinds of overhead and
unnecessary pain in dealing with the logistics and lack of focus the employee
will inevitably have.

The only time this could be a good deal is if there was a real lack of
engineering talent available for hire, so I guess if you consider startups
outside of the talent hubs it could make sense. But even then, if the startup
is considering remote workers, this is far less appealing than a full-time,
M-F, salary based employee.

~~~
macspoofing
>are basically the exact opposite of the type of employment arrangement
startup founders are probably interested in.

That all depends. For example, if I'm an average Joe with an idea for a web-
app, I sure would like someone to build it for me for 10%-20% stake. Makes
sense for me, not so much for the contractor. On the other hand, a mature
startup with investors, option-pools, and technical talent, wouldn't really go
for something like that. Too much hassle and not enough reward.

Between those two extremes I'm sure there's some middle-ground where it makes
sense for both parties.

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clarky07
This is an interesting idea. As posed though, I don't think it is workable. As
noted other places in the thread, equity for contract dev work is pretty
silly.

Posed slightly differently though, he could be a technical co-founder for
someone else who is also still working a day-job. Helping do bits of work for
a "startup" with full-time founders does not deserve a large piece of equity.
(I know the article said "small", but 8-18% as noted elsewhere in this thread
by OP, is not in fact small.) Being a technical co-founder though would
deserve this kind of equity or more, depending on how many people involved and
what the work/money requirements were.

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tvladeck
I was initially very skeptical of this idea but then I thought: "Well, some of
the money that investors would put into a startup would just go employees and
other service providers - why not skip a step?"

There are definitely alignment issues and other landmines that may make this a
bad idea, but at the same time, the best way to find out what's wrong with
this model, how it can be improved, or how it could work in some form, is to
try it out.

It'd be great if you posted a follow up in a month or two after you've gotten
some traction.

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bdcravens
Handy to do the time zone translation, but keep in mind that there's 4 time
zones here, so that's a 3 hour swing :-) I'm guessing you're assuming Pacific
time - contrary to what HN might suggest, there ARE startups in the US that
aren't in California. :-)

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monkeymeister
Ooops, I do apologise : ) Would the 3 hour extra timeframe work in our favour
or against?

~~~
skue
You're 5 hours ahead of the east coast, 8 hours ahead of the west coast. Being
available 1-6/7pm for the east coast seems fine.

And as others have said - it's a great idea, especially given the shortage of
technical talent. The biggest challenge I could see would be whether you can
provide enough hours (value) for each startup, while simultaneously working
with enough startups to give you the multiple pies you mentioned, and all this
on top of a full time job. In any case good luck, and let us know how it goes!

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livestyle
Are you looking at opportunties that have achieved product market fit or are
you interested in MVP's as well?

~~~
monkeymeister
Yup, I'd be interested in hearing about MVPs too.

~~~
livestyle
Whats a good email for you.

~~~
monkeymeister
ryan at 40degreesnorth dot co dot uk would be fine

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sterlingross
it is actually .co.uk :)

~~~
monkeymeister
Hah, cheers, edited :/

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fxtentacle
In general, I like your idea :) and I've tried this route myself. Here's how
it failed for me:

Outside people can rarely judge the quality of your work. If you're willing to
work for free, they'll assume that your work is worthless. At least I was
treated quite bad by the startup that I tried to help...

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monkeymeister
I'm right here if anyone's got any ideas.

~~~
wasd
I think this is an incredibly interesting idea but you did post this on
American holiday where many people will be away from their PCs.

~~~
monkeymeister
Ah dammit. You crazy Americans! I will have to repost, but at the moment it's
actually getting loads of interest, so maybe it's helped!

~~~
dyno12345
It's the day we celebrate leaving the British, if that's not ironic enough

~~~
agilebyte
Thank you for saying British and not English :). Have heard it a bit too often
today.

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cj
Cool idea! I'd be down for a similar arrangement if anyone's interested

UI, UX, design. Frontend developer, backbone experience. YC alum. SF

bp@brandonpaton.com

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knes
Nothing to really add to the discussion but +1 for using Pusher for your
realtime features!

If you ever in London, come to our office and say hi!

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janameri
Sweat equity rising! Great! (Ps.I wish there was a video to demonstrate how
Productiv.io works.)

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Jhsto
Smart idea. Those investors will surely sound good when pitching for funding
later on.

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livestyle
Part of why this is appealing for myself is that hint of a co-operative feel
it has.

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cleverjake
Just a note >> I do have is 8 thumbs and 2 thumbs

Not sure if that is a joke or a typo

~~~
monkeymeister
Annnnd... that's what you get for writing late at night. Thanks.

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hnrandom
After 13 years working essentially 2 high paying jobs how do you not have
thousands of pounds to invest in businesses?

~~~
monkeymeister
Three words my friend. British. Mortgage. Rates.

:)

