
Germany nixes surveillance pact with US, Britain - stfu
http://news.yahoo.com/germany-nixes-surveillance-pact-us-britain-113557159.html
======
sdoering
Just symbolic politics, as our Foreign Minister himself stated:

"He said the move was largely symbolic since the agreement had not been
invoked since the end of the Cold War[...]"

So, as there are upcoming elections, I believe, that they try to appear doing
something at least/at all, while not p __ing off the Americans, or the Brits.

~~~
bowlofpetunias
Wars have been started (and ended) by symbolic acts.

Symbolic does not equate meaningless.

This is the loudest "fuck you" Germany has given the US in half a century.

In 20 years time, we may look back at this symbolic gesture as being the first
act in Germany finally ridding itself of the remains of US occupation.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
>This is the loudest "fuck you" Germany has given the US in half a century.

Perhaps.

>In 20 years time, we may look back at this symbolic gesture as being the
first act in Germany finally ridding itself of the remains of US occupation.

Germany's demand for inspection of its gold and subsequent demand for
repatriation of German gold from the Fed was not a small thing.

~~~
1337biz
Did actually anything come out of that? Any results?

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
IIRC, A German court issued an order to the Bundesbank that Germany's gold
bullion (including those held in foreign vaults) be audited. The access
granted to the German auditors by they FRBNY wasn't satisfactory to the German
authorities, and as a result the Germans decided to begin repatriation of a
large portion of their gold (~300 tonnes, I think). A deal was struck to
return the gold in batches over the next 7 years. I don't think there has been
any conclusive proof of shady things, but of course there is a lot of
speculation regarding the motives and facts surrounding the issue.

Some links in case you're curious:

[http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/debate-breaks-
ou...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/debate-breaks-out-in-
germany-over-foreign-gold-reserves-a-833289.html)

[http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/rechnungshof-
forde...](http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/rechnungshof-fordert-
bundesbank-zur-inventur-der-goldreserven-auf-a-862719.html)

[http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-
politicia...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-politicians-
demand-to-see-gold-in-us-federal-reserve-a-864068.html)

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/9804444/Bundesbank-
to-pull-gold-from-New-York-and-Paris-in-watershed-moment.html)

~~~
yapcguy
The question is why 7 years? After all, the amount of gold to be returned is
not that much!

"“In two months, we’ve brought 160 tons of gold valued at around $9 billion
back to Venezuela,” [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-31/venezuela-
receives-...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-31/venezuela-receives-
last-shipment-of-repatriated-gold-bars-1-.html)

For anybody reading this, research gold leasing by bullion banks. In essence
it's fractional reserve banking... and the issue is if nations demand their
gold back, what if it's not there?

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northwest
Alternative link: [http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/germany-nixes-
sur...](http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/germany-nixes-surveillance-
pact-us-britain-19848935)

~~~
guard-of-terra
Thank you because parent link always landed me at
[http://hosted.ap.org/specials/bluepage.html](http://hosted.ap.org/specials/bluepage.html)

------
northwest
TL;DR

 _A German official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the cancellation
would have no practical consequences.

He said the move was largely symbolic since the agreement had not been invoked
since the end of the Cold War and would have no impact on current intelligence
cooperation between Germany and its NATO allies._

------
brown9-2
Almost every other paragraph in this article diminishes the strong-sounding
headline

 _British Foreign Office brushed off the significance of the German move.
"It's a loose end from a previous era which is right to tie up," the Foreign
Office said in a statement, noting that the agreement had not been used since
1990._

------
kephra
If I read it correctly Germany canceled the contract from 1968 that allows US
and UK intelligence to ask German intelligence about data collected with by
the G10 law.

But the contract from 3. August 1959, that allows the US, US and France to
collect as much data as they want, is still valid, and likely would only end
with a peace treaty and end of German occupation.

~~~
dragonwriter
The occupation ended with the General Treaty of 1955 (which still included
some restrictions), and the regime of restrictions under the General Treaty
ended with the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany and
German reunification in 1991.

~~~
kephra
If you read 2+4 contract closely, then you realize that Germany is still a
divided country, e.g. when it comes to US atomic missiles, and that 2+4 is not
a peace treaty, nor does it end German occupation.

It was very difficult to find a news that tells what contract was canceled
today. The basically canceled, if I'm right:

[http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetz_zur_Beschr%C3%A4nkung_de...](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesetz_zur_Beschr%C3%A4nkung_des_Brief-,_Post-
_und_Fernmeldegeheimnisses#.C3.9Cbermittlung_von_BND-
Erkenntnissen_an_andere_Staaten)

So this cancel wont PRISM and the like, US gathering of intelligence is still
legal in Germany.

~~~
dragonwriter
> If you read 2+4 contract closely, then you realize that Germany is still a
> divided country, e.g. when it comes to US atomic missiles, and that 2+4 is
> not a peace treaty, nor does it end German occupation.

Treaties, _by their nature_ , limit the parties in ways which they would not,
as soveriegn states, be limited in the absence of the treaty. The fact that
there are limits on what Germany can do (and what other parties can do in
Germany) under the Final Settlement treaty does not make it any less a "peace
treaty" than it would otherwise be. And it emphatically did end the occupation
of (East) Germany (the occupation of West Germany was ended by General
Treaty.)

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shmerl
It loads some weird page which proceeds to _This page is a 403, forbidden
page_.

------
iSnow
Meh, this is simply a symbolic move to win the election. Our govt cares jack
shit that everything is monitored by foreign powers.

