
A College Without Classes - Jtsummers
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/a-college-without-classes/400115/?single_page=true
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jloughry

        Unlike MOOCs, which mainly expect students to use resources online to
        complete courses themselves, competency-based programs depend on faculty
        mentors to walk learners through the learning process. It’s almost the
        opposite of the university lecture. Rather than a professor talking to a
        roomful of students, a professor talks to students one-on-one while they
        learn information at their own pace.
    

This sounds almost exactly like the 'tutorial' system used for a thousand
years (for undergraduates) at Oxford and Cambridge. Students meet with their
tutors weekly and are given suggested reading, and usually an essay to write.
Once a term, proctored exams are held.

Edited to add: One difference between university in the U.S. and U.K. is that
in the U.K., 'breadth' classes are almost unheard of; the idea of a chemistry
major taking an anthropology class, a psychology class, or an art class is
strange. That's one of the reasons undergraduates there finish in three years,
usually.

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tjr
While I didn't particularly like it as a student, looking back on university
~15 years later, the educational component that I feel like I got the most out
of was being forced to take a variety of sundry non-major classes. Most of the
major material I probably would have learned on my own anyway; it was the
other 'breadth' classes that, well, broadened my thinking in ways I did not
expect.

Though from a purely vocational standpoint, the elimination of the breadth
classes would seemingly allow for not only faster graduation, but also taking
more major classes. That may well be a good thing too.

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henrikschroder
Agree, outside of my comp sci. major, I took courses in cognitive psychology,
history of science, and technical writing, and looking back, those were very
useful.

However, it's frustrating that it's regarded as perfectly fine to require STEM
students to take courses in breadth subjects, but completely preposterous to
require liberal arts students to take breadth courses in hard science.

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hackuser
> it's regarded as perfectly fine to require STEM students to take courses in
> breadth subjects, but completely preposterous to require liberal arts
> students to take breadth courses in hard science.

Hmmm ... at my U. science was required for everyone. Are you sure that wasn't
the case at yours? They weren't required to take the most difficult science
classes but the same is true for STEM majors taking liberal arts courses.

(I'm using "liberal arts" to mean humanities, social sciences, and the arts.)

~~~
ForHackernews
The "Liberal arts" also include physical science and mathematics:
[https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberal-
arts](https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberal-arts)

If you mean "humanities and social sciences" then say that.

~~~
henrikschroder
Thanks for the correction, that's what I meant!

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Roodgorf
I'm interested to see where this concept goes, particularly in its stated
mission to provide an educational experience for the underserved. Most non-
traditional students, no matter how motivated, simply don't have the time or
resources to trudge their way through the traditional college experience.
Should we not be concerned about educating them as possible as well? I believe
so, and some of the barriers to traditional college for someone in their 30's,
say, requiring a student be physically onsite, just seem absurd.

I think it's also important to note that this is _not_ intended as an all-out
replacement of traditional colleges, just a potential alternative. In an
institution as old and important as this, cultivating innovation rather than
hiding from it is absolutely vital.

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dikaiosune
I do think it's interesting that there are no (that I can find) reputable
competency-based CS programs.

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kansface
Maybe you stumbled into a business opportunity? On the other hand, judging the
ability to program is very hard.

~~~
dikaiosune
Indeed, although I would wager that current CS programs don't effectively
gauge that either.

I think part of what's interesting is that there is this massive proliferation
of non-college sources of education for CS, but none of them seem to have the
clout and accreditation that a lot of employers look for. So why aren't
universities copying the coding bootcamp model as a hybrid with CBE? I hope
it's not just because they're being sticks in the mud.

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graham1776
Do you see local technical colleges and career colleges succeeding in the
future? Dental schools, technical assistance/maintenance/etc, welding/plumbing
trades, etc? It seems there is huge swath of different types of trade schools
out there...I am trying to figure out which ones are going to survive with
physical schools and classrooms/labs vs which ones will migrate online?

~~~
baseballmerpeak
Until a job can be performed remotely, I don't see how it can be taught
remotely, i.e. not hands on.

~~~
graham1776
That is a great way to look at it. I am a real estate investor looking into
the pros and cons of investing in the campuses of technical schools. They are
everywhere. I think your sentiment is a great way to sort the healthy/longer
lasting schools from the ones open to technology change. Fields like nursing,
dental hygiene, server maintenance, etc will be more likely to succeed than
paralegal, medical billing, etc. Some jobs are inherently (and always will be)
onsite.

~~~
intopieces
> I am a real estate investor looking into the pros and cons of investing in
> the campuses of technical schools.

I don't know anything more than what you provided in this post, but it sounds
like you're talking about for-profit education centers. These are generally
looked down upon and are coming under heavy scrutiny by the U.S. goverment as
of lat for their false advertisements and broken promises.

~~~
graham1776
Yes, for-profit education centers. I'd really like to look into this more...Do
you have any sources I could read into regarding decline and/or stigma? I feel
there is more of a stigma on the larger "vocational" schools like University
of Phoenix that offer college-esqe experiences and soft skills vs. blue
collar/technical schools that have clear job paths and hard skills after
graduation. True? Or are they all stigmatized?

~~~
mediaman
I don't think they're stigmatized, I think we need more of them. I recruit
employees at some of these 'hard' technical schools for things like CNC
machinists.

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colemorrison
Okay so I think I'm missing something -

This new model favors mentorship (adhoc and scheduled) but for the most part,
self-education. And, as mentioned in the article, graduation rates are kind of
variable due to the lack of physical accountability (lectures, fellow
students, etc).

But. It's self-education. The way I'm interpreting this is a new, viable way
for Universities to increase profit margins by accepting more students and
delegating more of the core offering ("learning") to other students, while
saving costs on traditional overhead (facilities, professors) AND increasing
sales outreach (online).

Now don't get me wrong, self-education and finding your own way in learning is
the key to real, personal potential. And honestly, this is really the only way
a student can succeed in college anyway. However, encouraging institutions to
scale back even more on what most already view as a secondary function (Yes,
most view research as their primary) seems wrong.

Now if the cost of these acquired degrees we're to plummet I'd understand it a
bit more. But I highly doubt the big name institutions will ever do this.

I don't know, maybe I missed something, after all it was a long article and I
have to get back to my kickass programming gig ... which is a skill I learned
via self-education and experience. (Yes I went to college for economics and
marketing. No I haven't used it at all professionally.)

~~~
thesagan
I've been scratching my head on this for quite a while as well. It seems to me
that the value of the degree is going down, yet the price continues to rise.

The self-education model (and ignoring the complexities of managing _that_ )
is often written off as lacking in comparison to attending a college
environment, which I completely understand, but yet institutions seem to be
scaling back in ways that soon will seem to render themselves as more and more
aged as self education becomes... viable? Changed, at he very least.

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cafard
'“The essential manner of delivering education has not taken advantage of
technological innovation in the way we’ve seen in other universities,” said
Josh Wyner, the executive director of the College Excellence Program at the
Aspen Institute, told me.'

I find the first sentence hard to read. I believe that it means that a few
universities are far in advance of others in using technology.

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palakz
I love this! It's a great way to 'not-stop' students' creativity and
imagination. My college doesn't promote much of startup and new creative
ideas. They're more focused on getting jobs and getting good salary packages
from campus interviews. One of my professors literally asked me to focus on
getting more marks and stop thinking of new ideas and startups till I complete
college - not all professors help their students' in developing their ideas or
startups. A student like me would definitely love this kind of college! :D

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paulhauggis
Your professor has some good advice. The problem I see is that many students
discard the basics as 'boring' and 'pointless' and want to jump straight into
new and fresh ideas. The end result is huge knowledge gaps.

If you want a startup, don't go to college. If you want to learn, go to
college. When you try to do both at the same time, you just end up doing each
half-assed..and both will eventually fail.

I've seen it too many times..

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palakz
I agree to what you just said. But sometimes nothing could be learned when you
already know that and I couldn't agree more to the second para. I am going to
think wise and make a decision on that very soon. :)

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ytdht
Weren't you always able to just pay for the tests at universities?

