
People who own businesses should not act like assholes - hnyk
https://blog.kamens.us/2019/01/26/people-who-own-businesses-should-not-act-like-assholes/
======
hn_throwaway_99
To be honest, it was the author who I felt like, while perhaps not an asshole,
showed a pretty intense level of oblivious immaturity.

I get it, the other guy was a jerk, especially to someone who was maintaining
an add-on for free. But at the point where the author responded with the
"Sorry, I don't agree with that," he should have left it at that and moved on.
Who cares what some rando on the internet thinks about your product? Instead
the author decided to go into vindictive mode and leave the negative review,
and then leave this whole blog post, which does the author no favors. To be
honest, to me the cringiest part of this article is it feels like the author
is trying to project how virtuous he is, when, at least for me, it had the
opposite effect.

~~~
quickthrower2
Totally my thoughts. Plus I thought the email asking him to take down the
reviews was fair and respectfully written. And leaving reviews for businesses
you’ve not been a customer of is in bad faith.

~~~
aequitas
For me the author can be considered a supplier instead of a customer. Maybe
they don't have a legal contract stating the business relationship. But the
business owner is using both the software and support of the author. That it
is free shouldn't make a difference here.

~~~
DarkWiiPlayer
Not really; the user was clearly using the addon privately, not for his
busyness, so he wasn't really supplying the busyness itself.

------
i_dont_know_
I've worked on FOSS before and got a handful of messages from people like
this. They're very very few and far between, but I always found them
fascinating because of how much it broke their worldviews.

They're usually people who control enough money that they can 'throw money at
a problem' and it'll largely diminish or go away. They usually find a
desperate enough vendor, employee, or subcontractor who will deal with their
attitudes for enough cash, or quickly fire them if they can't.

They usually have the inverse attitude towards customers giving them money --
that is, they believe it's also part of _their_ job to take abuse from those
willing to buy.

So, most of their business transactions involve them giving or taking abuse
with the threat of financial withdrawal if the abuse isn't accepted. It's how
they define transactions. "Who's the abuser, who's the abusee?" The answer
depends, strictly, on which way the money is flowing.

FOSS breaks their worldview because they're not the customer in the same way.
They don't have that leverage. They're just an angry person on the street
asking you to help them carry their groceries in, and at some point, if they
realize it, it's priceless.

~~~
normalfaults
What you are describing is to some level the essence of consulting/contracting
or at least folks that are in that industry. This type of abuser/abusee
relationship in business is prevalent all over the place especially to defer
blame when things go south (paying for someone to essentially take the blame)
and also defer decision making . thanks for the food for thought.

------
vinceguidry
The Internet over the years has taught me the fine art of non-engagement.
Just... stop. The instant it starts going down a bad road, stop. Don't send
another message, or send a blithely positive one just to blunt the energy and
move on.

Seems so simple, but I think the need for closure is what keeps many from
being able to do this. But it's dangerous. The Internet is dangerous. All it
takes is for one person, it doesn't even have to be a party to the
interaction, to ruin your day if not your life.

Legal threats? Please. This guy might SWAT you.

~~~
Topgamer7
I agree. Don't poke the internet bear. You might not fully understand the
level of crazy on the other end of the router.

~~~
jik
I've been poking the internet bear for over 30 years. That's quite obvious if
you read the other articles on my blog. I'm not one to back down from a fight
when I think someone is in the wrong. And yes, sometimes I've paid for that,
such as when a Usenet kook tried to get me fired from my job for having the
temerity to disagree with him. But overall I'd rather be the guy who stood up
for what I believed was right than the guy who didn't. As always, YMMV.

~~~
vinceguidry
30 years ago, I'd have been right there with you. Nowadays? Oh hell no. The
threat landscape has changed.

------
jik
Wow, out of all the things I've written on my blog, _this_ makes it onto the
front page of HN. How droll.

BTW, just to be clear, I wasn't the one who posted the link here. I don't
think it's particular relevant to what HN is for, but _shrug_ apparently
somebody did.

This is all I'm going to have to say about the attacks on my character here...

When some stranger on the internet acts like a dick toward me in private
emails, I call it out -- in private emails.

When I decide that someone has acted sufficiently like a dick toward me in
private emails, I put them in my burn-before-read file, and I tell them so,
because I don't believe in ghosting people.

That's usually the end of it.

When someone, having been told that they are now in my burn-before-read file,
decides they're going to go out of their way to email me from a different
email address and harass me some more, then that's just what it is --
harassment. If they'll do it to me, they'll do it to other people, and I
believe that calling out harassers publicly is, in fact, the right thing to
do. That's why I posted the reviews.

I disagree with the claim made below that it was "bad faith" to do so, because
having interacted with the business owner, I was in fact in a position to know
his character and how he treats people, and that is certainly an appropriate
thing to tell people about who might be considering whether to patronize a
business.

The last letter I got from them, asking me take down the reviews, was not
"fair." It was an attempt to intimidate me into taking down my reviews. It
was, in fact, a classic example of an attempt at such intimidation. If you
don't recognize it as such, try reading @Popehat a bit. It is perfectly
appropriate to respond with public shaming to someone trying to intimidate you
into taking down content you posted about them that they don't like (again,
see @Popehat). Ever heard of the Streisand effect?

Finally, as I believe I made quite clear in the blog posting, I would have
taken down all of the reviews and the blog posting itself in a second if they
had simply apologized. I still would, if they apologized today. There's no
expiration date on that offer.

~~~
chimen
What about "mark as spam" and move on? I maintain a few OSS projects and,
occasionally, get some of those quite often. I just move on. Or...ask for
$(2|5|10)k to do it for him - that also works

~~~
jik
I mean, "mark as spam" is basically "burn before read," which is what I did to
him. The difference, I guess, is that I told him I was doing it, because, like
I said before, I think ghosting people is rude. YMMV.

Regarding quoting a ridiculously large number to add a requested feature, yes,
sometimes I do that, and sometimes people even take me up on it and I end up
both adding useful functionality to the software that everyone gets to benefit
from, and making some money out of it as well. But I won't do that when the
feature being requested isn't actually the right way to solve the problem.
I've explained in another comment why it wasn't in this case. I'm not going to
let someone pay me to make my software worse, and if you quote a price to
scare someone off, sometimes they surprise you and say yes.

------
puranjay
I mean no one really comes out looking good in this story.

You don't trump an asshole by out-assholing him

~~~
everdev
Yep, it takes two to keep the drama going.

If you want to fight, argue. If you want to end a fight, empathize.

People tend to think there's right/wrong in a fight when it's almost always
emotional and can't be proven or justified with logic.

------
caractacus
It's a beautiful story where one asshole meets another.

~~~
eyeinthepyramid
It's incredible the author was so proud of being an asshole that he wrote a
blog post about it.

~~~
rosege
To be fair I've probably had the odd time I've been like that too!

------
chimen
Only few people can act like Linus and get away with it (and for a good
reason). HN is the worst place to brag about stuff like this. I'm a person
with limited patience and it's toxic for my business for me to deal with
clients that's why only my partner deals with it while I stay on the technical
part. It's worked wonders. It's no shame in admitting you're not the guy to do
it all.

------
johnmarcus
"You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole." \- The Dude.

I often want to vent about shite like this, so I feel for you. It sucks to get
treated like dirt and just have to swallow it, else risk a bad-internet-wrap
for (rightfully or wrongfully) putting someone in their place.

But outside of an anonymous post, which is not nearly was cathartic, it's
better to keep ones mouth shut in an ever so politically correct environment,
dollar wise speaking anyways. People speak about how wrong bullying is, but
then frown upon punching back. Unfortunately, a good counter punch is often
the quickest resolution.

Good for you for standing up for yourself. I personally would hire you for
being someone that tells it how it is, but most corporate HR teams may frown
upon it, expecting you to be "trouble".

------
ww520
Can feel for the author. I have several open source projects and some users
are very entitled and demanding. Some guy sent me an email demanding something
and when I didn't respond fast enough (was sleeping during the night), gave me
an 1-star rating couple hours later. Some would add, "1-star rating unless
such and such features are added." Yeah right, like I give a shit about
rating, especially on an open source project I publish out of my generosity.

------
DarkWiiPlayer
I honestly don't understand how they could have spelled that street name
wrong.

~~~
jik
I mean, she spelled my name wrong to. She spelled her own email address
differently in two places. Attention to detail does not appear to be this
person's strong suit.

