
Bali’s 'magic' bamboo homes [video] - pseudolus
https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p06sjxl5/the-beautiful-homes-made-from-bamboo
======
pseudolus
It's an amazing building material and there have been a number of recent
articles that have highlighted its use as scaffolding material that can be
built up to several hundred feet high.

[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290166/Hong-
Kongs-...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290166/Hong-Kongs-ultra-
modern-skyscrapers-built-scaffolding-BAMBOO.html)

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
In regards to very tall bamboo scaffolding...

A related side topic here might include near famous Indonesian disregard for
safety - or at least willingness to overlook it. One of the reasons I was told
that by Indonesian workers in Malaysia, whom there are many of. They’re
willing to work cheaper and do more dangerous jobs.

KL in particular has a ton of skyscraper work being done by Indonesians and I
saw first hand the lack of what i would consider appropriate safety.

~~~
xae342
I’ve been told by Indonesians their style is to dive head first into the
water, then check for rocks. Yes safety is a big issue there and causes a huge
amount of needless suffering.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
If there is one thing spending time in SE Asia has taught me is that the value
of human life is just different in some places.

Good or bad, from scooters to skyscrapers. It’s just different.

~~~
xae342
Yes life is cheap there, people get sick, injured and die for preventable
reasons all the time. Life expectancy is 10 - 15 years less than in developed
countries as a result. The west I think mixes up politics with their world
view which makes them think everything is equal somehow, it’s then surprising
when they see such foolishness that leads to such suffering first hand.

~~~
BurningFrog
I think causality goes the other way.

When life expectancy is low and you may die at any time for all sorts of
reasons, it is _rational_ to take a lot more risks than if you'll very likely
live past 80.

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IdontRememberIt
Having been in SE Asia and Bali many times and seen how they spray chemicals
against insects... I wonder how they handle that in the middle of the
forest... I would never go there without an independant assessment... I love
the design but I prefer something closed and airconditionned (mosquitos).
Mosquitos are a major issue (even in cities): [https://www.nea.gov.sg/our-
services/pest-control/mosquito-co...](https://www.nea.gov.sg/our-
services/pest-control/mosquito-control/mosquito-control-in-condominium-
estates)

~~~
crishoj
This is a valid critique of the design of that particular building, but not of
bamboo as a building material.

~~~
IdontRememberIt
Having seen amazing bamboo scaffoldings in HK. I have no doubt about building
material (minus how do they treat it against insects health-safely).

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gniv
This video made by CBS has a few more details, including air conditioning:
[https://youtu.be/tPJbtMuZvbU?t=196](https://youtu.be/tPJbtMuZvbU?t=196)

------
proee
One problem with bamboo is that it easily grows mold. So even if you treat the
outside it's entirely possible mold is growing on the inside. I'm sure there
are some good ways to "dip" bamboo and coat it in something to prevent mold
growth. I live in Hawaii and I won't use anything with bamboo because it
always seems to eventually mold.

~~~
LeifCarrotson
To be fair, Hawaii is a pretty extreme environment for mold problems. Bali
likely is too, but it's hardly fair to judge the material for mold problems
when hollow PVC will develop mold too...

~~~
proee
PVC actually does pretty well against mold growth. It's the organic materials
that are usually the biggest problem. Metals, glass, and dense plastics are
fairly mold resistant.

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jibolso
This is good design thinking and implementation. My only question would be the
susceptibility to fire, any thoughts on this?

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Bamboo doesn’t burn well. Often used for cooking because you can throw it in
the fire letting food cook inside it. I really liked native dishes that had
bamboo cooked chicken.

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thegabez
Since bamboo is hollow could filling the bamboo with concrete be used to
reinforce and increase its load bearing strength?

~~~
aquamo
My guess is no. Concrete fails under tension and with the irregular and
natural assembly process the structure probably would have issues with tension
and all the extra weight. The cost of filling each bamboo void would also make
it costly and less renewable. My gut feeling.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
Maybe, but the real reason you don’t fill bamboo isn’t entirely hollow. It’s
just got individual hollow segments.

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xae342
They look nice, but I can’t help question how safe they really are, they’re
more like giant baskets woven together by artists as opposed to calcuated
engineering by engineers.

~~~
rytor718
Can you explain how this is _not_ "calculated engineering by engineers"? My
impression from the video is that these are architects and engineers building
these.

~~~
xae342
It’s Indonesia, engineer doesn’t really mean what we think in the west. It’s
more that someone is passionate about something, not that they have a civil
engineering degree and are building to some code. There are engineers like
we’d think in Indonesia of course, but they’re unlikely to work on a western
lady’s pet project and are going to be a lot more expensive.

~~~
ForHackernews
So more like a software "engineer" ?

~~~
xae342
Sort of, but if the software engineer had never had access to CS material and
worked in a company where practices were based in CS so they naturally picked
it up. These are villagers that build small homes without machinery and very
basic tools, and haven’t learned from experts.

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fermienrico
I am more interested in the engineering aspects of Bamboo than just the
aesthetics. The entire video is about how unique it is, and how beautiful it
looks. None of that matters if the whole house of cards falls over. There was
an interesting brief comment about treatment to protect the Bamboo from
rotting away but very little information was conveyed in the presentation. I
wish they'd show the technical fundamentals of _why_ Bamboo is unique.

~~~
cwkoss
I visited this bamboo factory - they soak the bamboo in a chemical bath
(bromine I think?) and wash it off to make the bamboo harder and less
vulnerable to pests.

As such, the bamboo they are building with may have notably different
mechanical properties than raw, dried bamboo.

~~~
geomark
I have done some bamboo construction here in Thailand. In addition to mold
problems, untreated bamboo gets eaten by powder post beetles. Treating the
bamboo with a borax/boric acid solution preserves it for many years and does
not affect its strength. I have bamboo rafters on a cottage that are still
solid after more than 10 years. A few untreated pieces at the edges were eaten
up in 3 years.

The way I did the treatment was to use a long piece of sharpened rebar to
punch out the membrane between the sections in the bamboo poles, leaving the
last one intact. Then stand the poles vertically and pour in the solution and
let it soak for several days. So I did not need a tank to soak them in. Also,
soaking them in a tank is not very effective because the outer skin of the
bamboo poles is pretty water proof so the solution doesn't soak into the walls
which contain all the sugar that the power post beetles crave. After treatment
you let them dry thoroughly and then they are ready for use.

You need to protect the treated bamboo from the weather since the chemicals
are water soluble so the ends and any cracks will allow rain to leech it out
and expose it to attack by fungus and pests. Also not suitable for direct
contact with the ground for the same reason.

Other treatment methods I have seen that are aimed at converting the sugar to
make the bamboo unattractive to pests: Roast the poles over a low fire -
results in loss of strength. Soak them in a running stream for a few weaks -
results in a very foul smell that takes a long time to go away.

Bamboo construction is very interesting but there are some real challenges
with making good connections with it. It has great tensile strength which all
comes from the skin of the bamboo. Putting holes in it, nails, screws, bolts
cause the bamboo to split, making it difficult to take advantage of its
tensile strength. Connections that grab the outer circumference make the most
of the tensile strength but due to the high dimensional variance of bamboo
nearly every connection ends up being custom made.

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mbrumlow
And what effect do those chemicals have beyond just making bamboo fair the
elements better ?

If its anything like pressure treated wood in the us I would not go anywhere
near it.

Also. Who funds this? This sort of looks like a rich persons pet project that
won't go anywhere. It looks alor like I am busy saving the world sort of
projects that maybe help a hand full of people untill somebody gets bord.

~~~
dubyah
It's just treated with borates. Wouldn't use it in wet locations or for direct
ground contact because it's water soluble and that would hinder its
protection, but it's far from toxic as you seem to be implying.

Meh, even if it was some random pet project, it's not the worst way for them
to spend their money / time.

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everyone
Every bamboo pole is different.. For this reason bamboo could never fit into
modern engineering practices. Engineers use things like I-beams because, (in
theory) each one is the same and they have been tested (probably millions of
times) Their structural characteristics are known. So an engineer can sign off
on a building and the team can get architectural indemnity insurance. Bamboo,
and also things like using the entire trunk of young trees, are much much more
efficient in terms of embodied energy. Eg, a tree is designed for strength /
flexibility, why cut it up and then glue it back together to form a gluelam
beam? Its because engineers can sign off on it then..

Maybe theres some innovative way to integrate stuff like bamboo into modern
engineering practices, maybe each individual unique bamboo pole could be
scanned (like an MRI) and AI could be used to accurately structurally model
it. The the whole structure could be accurately modeled and signed off on in
theory.

~~~
greggyb
Don't we deal with the variability of natural products in lots of places by
grading? This example is not structural, but every piece of beef has a USDA
grade.

I think it is a matter of coming up with a standard (maybe it is imaging each
piece of bamboo) means of categorizing the qualities of concern, and then
selling in grades. Each grade would indicate a minimum quality or set of
qualities.

~~~
everyone
Structural engineers are weird. They want to be able to guarantee that a
structure can withstand a certain load. Eg. They'll calculate the maximum load
the floors will take (eg. if its an office and filled with filing cabinets)
and then multiply that by a safety factor of _10_ and design the structure to
support that, at the very least. They'll probably make it even stronger so the
structure never even flexes (which is not unsafe but it can just unsettle
people)

The goal is, it is _impossible_ for this structure to fail under any likely
conditions, so eg. any kind of wind load thats been experienced in so many
decades.

~~~
DrPhish
We do this with dimension lumber. There are a couple of different processes of
assessing the strength of a piece of lumber, but the designation is MSR
(Machine Stress Rated) "is intended for any engineered application where low
variability in strength and stiffness properties is primary product
consideration" (1).

It looks like there have been attempts to do the same thing with bamboo,
starting with adapting existing lumber grading machinery (2)

I don't see why it would be impossible to use bamboo in engineering
applications as long as the physical properties of a given grade of bamboo
stock could be guaranteed.

I assume treatment for pests, rot and fungus would also need to be applied to
guarantee that those properties remain inviolate, but am no expert on bamboo.

(1) - [https://www.wwpa.org/western-lumber/structural-
lumber/machin...](https://www.wwpa.org/western-lumber/structural-
lumber/machine-stress-rated-\(msr\))

(2) -
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313531323_Grading_o...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313531323_Grading_of_Bamboo)

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lifeformed
Can bamboo be processed into regular rectangular shapes? Would be cool to see
bamboo 2x4s. The specialization required to handle unique bamboo canes and the
design constraints of its shape seems like it would cancel out its cost
savings.

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sethammons
Wow, those are beautiful. Very organic feeling. I wonder how much those
structures cost...

~~~
crishoj
500k USD for that magnificent 6-storey building, according to this video:
[https://youtu.be/tPJbtMuZvbU?t=196](https://youtu.be/tPJbtMuZvbU?t=196)

~~~
fermienrico
I'd need to see an independent assessment of the structural integrity of this
type of ideas, especially if it was designed and built in Indonesia.

Even if it was assessed independently, I still would not feel safe because the
engineering scrutiny and structural discipline was perhaps not an integral
part of the development process. I just have a hard time trusting novel civil
engineering projects without insane amounts of engineering data.

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cedex12
What kind of treatment are they talking about?

~~~
pseudolus
I believe they treat the bamboo with a borax solution. The designer gave a TED
talk that goes into more depth.

[https://www.ted.com/talks/elora_hardy_magical_houses_made_of...](https://www.ted.com/talks/elora_hardy_magical_houses_made_of_bamboo?language=en)
(treatment method is mentioned at: 4:08 into talk).

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tim333
Pretty cool, though Bali's climate helps.

~~~
StavrosK
What's it like? Also, won't you get insects and birds _everywhere_ with open
spaces like that?

~~~
skilled
It's more humid than straight up 'hot'. And when it rains, it pours like
there's no tomorrow; rainy season, anyway.

I was staying in a medium-sized house in a fairly tucked away village;
surrounded by jungle and rice fields. Over the 3 months that I stayed in this
house, I saw iguanas the size of my arm, several snakes cruising in the
backyard, and plenty of ants that like to eat bamboo and other wood-stuff.

That being said, most birds stay away from people and is uncommon for them to
just chill in these open spaces. As for insects, it's not THAT big of an
issue.

Sometimes there are these little bugs that fly into houses with lights on,
right before it starts to rain -- these can be super annoying.

Everything else is manageable. Some 'businesses' like to use chemical sprays
around the area to avoid having mosquitoes and such fly inside. But the use of
chemicals isn't entirely environment-friendly and can make plants die off
pretty quickly.

Locals don't use chemicals in their own homes and is simply a 'luxury' that
Westerners have both imposed and expect from certain places.

~~~
fyfy18
I found the coil burners to work pretty well for mosquitos, although I have
concerns about how healthy they are. I guess if I lived somewhere like this
I'd just get used to it - although mosquitos in Europe seem to be getting
stronger every year, so I guess that won't take long.

~~~
skilled
A lot of people seem to like the Lemongrass repellent, both in liquid and
candle form. And there's locally purchasable incense (organic) that will keep
mozzies away, too.

The coil works really well, but I resonate with your sentiment on coil's
health effects.

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agumonkey
I wanted to make a bamboo cabin or even house.. This could come at a better
time.

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anotheryou
I'd need some walls in my climate here though.

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johnklos
It's what year now, and the video is still Flash?

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choot
Density of Carbon Fiber is 1743kg/m^3 and that of Bamboo is 1160 kg/m^3.

Acrlyic, Nylon, Polycarbonate have similar density as Bamboo.

Bamboo's strength falls somewhere between fiberglass and carbon fiber

Some things to think about include ecological factors (bamboo is renewable),
environmental factors (bamboo is flammable), loading factors (steel can be
made ductile and its high properties are isotropic), and weight considerations
(bamboo is much less dense) compared to Steel.

~~~
ajuc
Is this density including the void inside, or just for the non-hollow parts?

~~~
choot
Excluding void.

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choot
For a long time i am looking for a synthetic bamboo equivalent for acoustic
properties.

But so far I've not found anything similar. I am thinking, what if I engrave
bamboo like pattern on carbon fiber, will it produce similar acoustic?

Can any material/sound/chem engineer help me?

~~~
CapitalistCartr
I've worked with both materials, although not in acoustics; I don't think
they'll ever sound alike. CF sounds "light" compared to bamboo, when thin, and
dull when thick.

I think carbon fiber instruments sound interesting, just not a match for
bamboo.

~~~
scoggs
There would be the issue of cost when replicating the thickness of bamboo as
well, I'd imagine?

