
Hipster churches in Silicon Valley: evangelicalism's unlikely new home - zt
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/29/hipster-churches-sillicon-valley-evangelical-new-home
======
sputknick
I've had this idea bouncing around in the back of my head for a few years for
an idea to use technology to reimagine churches into "micro churches". I feel
like with communication such as it is, you could turn churches back into what
they once were 2000 years ago, small gatherings of a small number of people
(10-30) in an informal space (coffee shop, home) for church. It was foster
stronger sense of community, and would avoid 85% of the cost of a traditional
church (assuming you still gave 10% as alms). Not something I've ever built,
just something I've had knocking around back there. Someone else is welcome to
take the idea and make something of it.

~~~
TheNewAndy
If you are looking for a more traditional model, then leaving out the 10%
alms/tithe is pretty sensible. This only seems to be a fairly recent thing and
not one really backed by any biblical teaching (there are no mentions of
tithing for Christians in the bible).

~~~
humanrebar
Right. 10% is actually a low bar. Jesus was basically couch surfing. He had
high praise for what would seem like absurd giving to us. He told a rich man
to liquidate his life and donate the money. The early church would sell real
estate to pay each others' bills.

Even in the old testament, tithes were more like 23% though they included
taxes to support government. But there were additional social welfare rules on
top of that, like not harvesting all of your grain so the poor could take the
rest.

~~~
TheNewAndy
The percentage notion is pretty dangerous in my opinion. Even in old testament
times, there was no fixed percentage. How much did a carpenter tithe? How much
did a widow tithe?

The teaching I have seen at churches in San Francisco (not all churches mind
you - I have only been to 3, and one of them didn't do this) was teaching this
absolute lie that all people should be giving God (by which they meant the
church) money, and that by giving money to the church, God would repay them
with more. It isn't biblical, and it is really not helping with the huge
homelessness problem in the city.

Anyone going to a church that is teaching this should be doing their own
research, and then challenging the teaching at their church.

~~~
humanrebar
Right. There is no fixed percentage.

I used the term "low bar" in an opaque way. If the question is, "How much do I
have to give?" then the answer is "You're asking the wrong question."

Jesus talks about money in Luke 12, and his opinions (on inheritance and
accumulation of wealth) would run counter to God-loves-rich-people theology.
Heck, they probably run counter to what most Americans would consider common
sense.

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andyjohnson0
The problem with targeting "hipsters" (a term I dislike, btw) is that after a
while they inevitably move on to the next new thing. And I don't think that
religious belief systems are immune. A few years ago the new thing was Kabala,
and before that western Buddhism.

~~~
humanrebar
I don't know, do hipsters go back to drinking crappy coffee? I think broad
interests change with new experience. I don't know about community in Buddhism
or Kabala, but in Christianity, once you experience healthy, constructive, no-
judging, be-yourself community with other Christians, your tastes change.
Going back to normal friendships is a little like getting used to great coffee
then switching to instant coffee.

~~~
empressplay
Unless of course you're gay or trans. Most versions of "Christianity" take a
dim view of those folks.

~~~
humanrebar
I don't think all Christians are in "healthy, constructive, no-judging, be-
yourself communities", and it sounds like you haven't had any exposure to one
of those. I mentioned calling people on their crap in another post, and I've
called Christian friends out for bigotry before. Part of a constructive
relationship involves correcting people in a healthy and safe environment.

It's certainly not biblical to hate or judge anyone. That also means I can't
hate or judge people for their hateful or judgmental attitudes. But it's not
worth diving into a particular community steeped in those problems either.

------
wil421
>“Have you ever looked at the ingredients in a McRib? What are pig innards?”
“You don’t want to know!” called out a scientist in the second row, to
rippling laughter.

Surprisingly the only pork product is actually pork shoulder AKA pork picnic
[1]. The preservatives are the problem.

[1][http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/your_questions/our_food/whats...](http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/your_questions/our_food/whats-
in-your-mcrib.html)

~~~
iolothebard
I don't see any issues there. Pork shoulder is still meat, plus it's
McDonalds, what should anyone be expecting?

------
quietriot
I think many people would entertain spending time on Sundays with this non-
religious alternative :

[http://sundayassembly.com/](http://sundayassembly.com/)

The Public Charter

The Sunday Assembly is a godless congregation that celebrates life. Our motto:
live better, help often, wonder more. Our mission: to help everyone find and
fulfill their full potential. Our vision: a godless congregation in every
town, city and village that wants one.

------
zellyn
It's fun to read an article written from a somewhat "outsider" perspective
(the descriptions of bands and music are particularly amusing). I'd also be
interested in reading a more comprehensive insider-perspective study of
churches in SF and the Bay Area. In particular, I'd love to see a deeper
survey of the latent conservatism of many "hipster" or "emergent" churches
here, once you scratch deeper than the surface. People get squeamish quickly
if you delve too far into questions of homosexuality, past the "don't focus on
it" attitude described in the article.

There's also a surprisingly large "God called us to live in this dark city of
sin" contingent, which I find sad: if you can't appreciate a place like San
Francisco, you're only half alive: surely the antithesis of the promise of
Christianity.

~~~
bohol
The whole thing seem really strange to me, almost like a parody. In the
technology center of the world secular community movements, which SF used to
be famous for, are being replaced by churches and networking events. Why not
get together and start a study circle instead, it seems a lot more apt for the
place.

~~~
humanrebar
Study circles and churches aren't the same thing at all, for one.

------
humanrebar
I've noticed that how churches look is really influenced by land prices and
local zoning laws.

In places where people have money compared to the cost of real-estate (like
Texas), you see giant superchurches. In places where real-estate is relatively
expensive, churches tend to be smaller since large auditoriums are basically
out of the picture.

Though especially in dense areas, I've also seen what I call "church
franchises"; one "church" with maybe half-a-dozen locations spread across a
metroplex. To different degrees, the pastoral staff and congregation will
float around to different locations from week to week. It's a way to grow
without having to make absurd capital expenditures.

~~~
Q6T46nT668w6i3m
Maybe, but many cities have massive churches (e.g. Baltimore, New York,
Washington D.C., et al).

------
jkot
If church has a good wifi and some tables, I am willing to give it a try,
instead of coffee shop. I promise to keep video calls at minimum during mass
:-)

Now bit more seriously. I could easily imagine some sort of two week 'hacker
camp' organized by church. It works quite well for musicians, artist and other
groups.

~~~
humanrebar
Traditional and contemporary (meaning full of baby boomers) churches tend to
have many outlets for the artistically-inclined. I'm guessing that's because
the church experience for them revolves around mass media and therefore
performance: bands, choirs, sermons, and Bible studies (and accompanying
books).

I think most faith groups fail to identify creative-but-not-artistic types
(makers, hackers, builders, etc.) as having a lot of skills and passion to
contribute. It's certainly not coincidental that both the tech-oriented (and
more broadly, male) portions of American society are underrepresented and
probably under-served.

------
parennoob
From one of the churches mentioned in the article:
[https://www.c3sv.com/sites/default/files/statement_of_belief...](https://www.c3sv.com/sites/default/files/statement_of_beliefs.pdf)

How do people who are (probably) scientific-minded reconcile themselves with
this sort of thing? I love community, and I'm actually fine with all the
theological stuff. But evangelical zealotry like point 5 ("All people are lost
and need a new birth through Christ.") turns me off strongly, and I hope it
doesn't infuse people in the tech industry, like it has in Middle America.

~~~
dragonwriter
> How do people who are (probably) scientific-minded reconcile themselves with
> this sort of thing?

There's very little in that "statement of belief" that is even within the
domain of empirically-explorable fact, so I don't see what being "scientific-
minded" has to do with it, unless by that you mean something beyond using
science to explore questions within its domain like the epistemological view
that anything outside of the domain of science is to be rejected as a valid
matter of belief.

