
Dear Jeff Bezos, instead of firing me, protect your workers from coronavirus - jbegley
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/dear-jeff-bezos-amazon-instead-of-firing-me-protect-your-workers-from-coronavirus
======
zamalek
I strongly sympathize with the Amazon workers. The real problem is that this
isn't the first time Amazon has been in the spotlight for worker conditions
(there's even a pretty shocking documentary on the subject) and nothing
sensible has ever come from it. Amazon continues to exploit humans who have
few other choices, and will continue to get away with it.

This whole situation is a really good example of why worker's unions must
exist.

~~~
malandrew
And here is one reason why they should not exist:

[https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-coronavirus-
education-l...](https://www.wsj.com/articles/oregons-coronavirus-education-
lockdown-11585697080)

The Oregon teachers union is blocking student transfers to online charter
schools for fear that the students will remain in the charter schools and
won't return to public school next year.

It would be much better if we instead broke down the barriers to moving
between jobs like portable healthcare benefits so companies have no leverage
to keep employees around and employees can easily change employers if the
employer doesn't treat employees fairly.

~~~
cowpig
I don't understand this reasoning.

I could point to all kinds of wrongdoing by corporations. Does that means
corporations shouldn't exist?

------
legitster
I don't understand what is expected here. Nobody can get masks or sanitizer.
What little there is is getting redirected to hospitals. It's not even a money
thing.

This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores
instead. What the hell? How is that better?

~~~
dehrmann
You can't get blood from a stone.

This reminds me of a class of housing advocates who insist a higher minimum
wage or rent control will solve housing problems. No, you still have 1 unit
for 1.x people; the overriding issue is supply.

~~~
derefr
> This reminds me of a class of housing advocates who insist a higher minimum
> wage or rent control will solve housing problems. No, you still have 1 unit
> for 1.x people; the overriding issue is supply.

As someone who lives in a housing market where at least 30% of houses +
apartments are sitting empty for months/years because their owner is being
irrational (i.e. unwilling to drop to a market-clearing price), "rent control"
(in the form of not just preventing rents from rising, but also capping the
_initial_ lease price landlords are able to ask for) would fix a lot of
things.

Of course, anyone who thought the new rules would mean they could no longer
profit in the market could get out of the market, selling off their real-
estate assets. There'd be no limit on purchase prices for ownership transfer.
But, of course, without the hyper-inflated (even though illiquid!) rental
income, the units would be inherently less valuable, so they'd lose resale
value, too.

~~~
rwmj
_> "rent control" (in the form of not just preventing rents from rising, but
also capping the initial lease price landlords are able to ask for) would fix
a lot of things._

Why would this stop houses from being left empty? It seems a better idea for
stopping housing being left empty is to heavily tax houses which are left
empty.

------
ajuc
Recently they forbidden workers in Amazon warehouse in Poland to wear their
own masks.

Amazon isn't that big in Poland (most people buy on home-grown allegro or
chinese alliexpress) so nobody will cry if they go under. It seems every month
there's a story about these warehouses. It quickly becomes the stereotypical
worst place to work.

~~~
elliekelly
So even if an employee has a mask of their own they're not permitted to bring
it and wear it while they're working? That makes absolutely no sense. Has
Amazon offered any sort of explanation for why they wouldn't allow it?

~~~
ajuc
"Not to spread panic"

[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwiadomosci.onet.pl%2Fkraj%2Fpracownicy-
amazona-po-tekscie-onetu-nie-mozemy-pracowac-w-maskach-zeby-nie-
wywolywac%2F4p2fcdw)

> One of the messages from Amazon employees concerned wearing masks in
> warehouses. According to the man who wrote to us, employees are prohibited
> from using them. Why? - Not to spread panic - he explains in an interview
> with Onet. - These are the top-down guidelines. The exception is a lady from
> a medical point, she alone can have a mask.

> Onet's interlocutor also said that until two weeks ago Amazon workers were
> also forbidden to wear gloves. - It has now been lifted. People can work in
> gloves, but only material ones, not rubber one. Why is it like that? I have
> no idea - says an Amazon employee.

~~~
kqr
Spread covid, not panic?

~~~
Loughla
Welcome to message control and public relations. It's what we worry about now,
and it's what we do as a society/species.

In my opinion, perception management is more important than content and
substance for 99.9% of companies and executives.

This is the thing causing most problems in society today, in my personal
opinion.

------
luxuryballs
We have been wiping down and sanitizing any packages and contents that come to
our door. Never assume someone else is doing the right thing, just like why
you still look even when the light is green.

~~~
toomuchtodo
COVID-19 can live on cardboard for up to 24 hours, 3 days on plastic. I would
suggest using gloves (if available) to open the package, have someone else
remove contents, and then with gloves still on, dispose of the box in a
container of some sort (garbage bag, etc). Wash hands after all contact with
incoming material.

EDIT: Washing your hands well is probably sufficient; excuse my paranoia
suggesting gloves, extraordinary times.

~~~
Barrin92
According to a German virologist that was interviewed a few days ago they
extensively took samples from houses of highly infectious people and couldn't
get any of it to grow in vivo. Are there any cases were we know of surface
transmission?

Because from what I have read that is extremely unlikely.

~~~
toomuchtodo
WHO, NIH, CDC (google for citations) are stating surface transmission is
possible. I have no reason or authority to state otherwise.

------
gandalfian
Oddly in the UK we are getting all our groceries delivered and left on the
doorstep. In New Zealand they have been stopped from having groceries
delivered in case people touch them and told to go get them from the store
themselves. I wonder who is right.

~~~
rwmj
There are going to be many excellent comparative epidemiology studies when
this is over, comparing the approaches of different countries and what worked
and what didn't.

~~~
Loughla
Honestly, if we all survive this, the new knowledge base we're about to have
is going to be astounding. So that's one good thing, I guess.

------
lowdose
Why didn't he just mail Jeff on his Amazon mail. He normally response within
an hour.

------
void445be54d48a
The amount of people trying to defend Amazon in this is absolutely staggering.
The amount of people trying to protect what Amazon stands for is revolting. If
you are one of these kinds of people you should know that you are the enemy of
treating people humanely.

~~~
AndrewUnmuted
> you are the enemy of treating people humanely

As opposed to, what - exactly? This is quite a forced dichotomy you are
presenting here, and I really don't think it is helpful, nor informative. I
would expect this kind of commentary on Twitter, but I would have had a higher
standard for HN.

Twitter makes money off of lighting fires under its users' asses, as does much
of the media today. What you are doing here is trying to protect what THESE
companies stand for. I find that to be much more revolting than those who are
defending Amazon.

~~~
viklove
> As opposed to, what - exactly?

Putting profits over people. Which is what capitalism, and as a result,
American corporations end up idealizing.

You really think Bezos gives a shit about some warehouse worker? Over
generating more profit so he can be richer? I've got news for you bud.

> I really don't think it is helpful, nor informative

Only if you want to protect monied interests, or you're one of those
temporarily embarrassed billionaires...

------
throwawaysea
PPE is very hard to get right now and obviously it is not possible to protect
everyone perfectly. Demanding change without a solution is not reasonable. Nor
is it reasonable to expect things to be perfect in a difficult/fast-moving
situation, with various constraints like limited supply chains and inability
to alter physical spaces significantly in warehouses. I for one am very happy
that online shopping is available, since it enables social distancing more
broadly. Amazon also seems to have made a large number of changes, and the
evidence is that they've been doing so for weeks, well before recent news
media focus on them.

See [https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/02/amazon-begins-running-
temp...](https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/02/amazon-begins-running-temperature-
checks-and-will-provide-surgical-masks-at-warehouses/)

> Employees will also be provided with surgical masks starting next week, the
> company says, once it receives shipments of orders of “millions” placed a
> few weeks ago.

From [https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-
memo...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm8bx/leaked-amazon-memo-details-
plan-to-smear-fired-warehouse-organizer-hes-not-smart-or-articulate)

> Zapolsky’s notes imply the company’s attempts to purchase N95 masks from
> China fell through. “China has deemed N95 masks as ‘strategic,’” Zapolsky
> wrote. “They’re keeping them for optionality. They also want to use them for
> ‘diplomacy.’ The masks in China that we thought we had probably got
> redirected by profiteers.”

And [https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-
goods...](https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-goods-only/)
for changes to stock essential goods.

> “We are seeing increased online shopping, and as a result some products such
> as household staples and medical supplies are out of stock,” reads an
> announcement on Amazon’s official forum for sellers. “With this in mind, we
> are temporarily prioritizing household staples, medical supplies, and other
> high-demand products coming into our fulfillment centers so that we can more
> quickly receive, restock, and deliver these products to customers.”

And [https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/update-from-
amazon...](https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/update-from-amazons-
operations-network)

> To date, we’ve made over 150 significant process changes to ensure the
> health and safety of our teams. We’ve shared details on the safety
> precautions we’ve taken to date on the Day One Blog, and today, I want to
> give an update.

> Disinfectant wipes and hand sanitizer are already standard across our
> network, and the procurement teams have worked tirelessly to create new
> sources of supply to keep these critical items flowing. The millions of
> masks we ordered weeks ago are now arriving, and we’re distributing them to
> our teams as quickly as possible. Masks will be available as soon as today
> in some locations and in all locations by early next week. Any N-95 masks we
> receive we are either donating to healthcare workers on the front lines or
> making them available through Amazon Business to healthcare and government
> organizations at cost.

> We’re conducting daily audits of the new health and safety measures we’ve
> put into place. We’ve shared some of the photos of these measures here. We
> also assigned some of our top machine learning technologists to capture
> opportunities to improve social distancing in our buildings using our
> internal camera systems. With over 1,000 sites around the world, and so many
> measures and precautions rapidly rolled out over the past several weeks,
> there may be instances where we don’t get it perfect, but I can assure you
> that’s just what they’ll be—exceptions.

> Finally, I can’t stress enough how much I appreciate our teams for serving
> their communities. If someone would rather not come to work, we are
> supporting them in their time off. If someone is diagnosed or comes to us
> who is presumptively diagnosed (but unable to get a test), we are giving
> them extra paid time off. In addition, we are also contacting people who
> have been in close contact with a diagnosed individual and giving them time
> off as well, for 14 days, to stay home with pay.

There's even more that Amazon has done in response to COVID-19 at
[https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazons-actions-
to...](https://blog.aboutamazon.com/company-news/amazons-actions-to-help-
employees-communities-and-customers-affected-by-covid-19). I really don't get
what all the outrage is about. It seems like a manufactured crisis, amplified
by a series of biased news outlets, in order to push a narrative against big
corporations, presumably in favor of unionization.

~~~
kevingadd
> PPE is very hard to get right now and obviously it is not possible to
> protect everyone perfectly. Demanding change without a solution is not
> reasonable. Nor is it reasonable to expect things to be perfect in a
> difficult/fast-moving situation, with various constraints like limited
> supply chains and inability to alter physical spaces significantly in
> warehouses.

"PPE is very hard to get right now" is one thing but the workers are
complaining about stuff like not even having access to hand sanitizer. That's
basic shit. If you can't get your employees a way to properly wash their hands
you shouldn't be operating a business during a pandemic. I don't care whether
it's because costs have climbed or you made an oopsie, if your facilities
don't have essentials like:

running water + soap so people can wash their hands

usable toilets

central heat/air so that employees don't overheat or freeze

Then you're not prepared to operate them. Amazon is not some small business.
They have billions of dollars at their disposal that they could have been
using to prepare for an epidemic - basically an absolute certainty that one
would eventually impact local amazon fulfillment centers, sooner or later - by
stocking basic stuff like soap, gloves, etc. Arguably they should have been
keeping those stocked and available for day-to-day business, but whatever.
Incidentally I mentioned heat/air there because people getting sick from
overheating inside Amazon warehouses is a common occurrence. These facilities
are not well-run.

There are many other complaints in the article that are not addressed by your
defense here. How is "you're making sick people work overtime during a
pandemic" a manufactured crisis? Do you really think that's a good business
strategy and something workers should be okay with?

Sure maybe they can't get their employees n95 masks or even surgical masks.
Aside from that they had plenty of opportunities to build a stockpile of that
stuff in advance - if they didn't then yes, they can't exactly just bring in a
truck full of them tomorrow. Sure. But does that mean it's okay that it took
them _weeks_ to quarantine a couple of union organizers after exposure to an
infected employee? If Amazon is doing such a good job why weren't the infected
employee's interactions tracked immediately and responded to by quarantining
all employees who made contact with them right away?

------
0x262d
Huge indictment of capitalism that we have an unbelievably high level of
productive capacity and can't do any of these things: make hospital equipment
including ventilators; produce enough masks; keep hospitals open (there has
been a steady trend of closures brought on by financialization (profiteering)
and mergers); train adequate numbers of hospital staff; and the most
ridiculous so far is every business is desperately trying to stay open even
for non-essential things, like Amazon.

Profiteering is undercutting every possible thing. The profit motive over a
democratically planned economy is horrible most of the time but really becomes
a mess in a crisis.

~~~
salawat
You might want to make your comment again without using the phrase "planned
economy". It doesn't matter that you're probably using it to mean "an economy
under the active influence of a government through large work orders in
response to a crisis"; many economically versed individuals will take a
gigantic dump on you regardless because they figure you're dog-whistling
communism, intentionally or not.

Just figured you may want to know, because you have a decent point.

~~~
minikites
>economically versed individuals

Economically versed individuals would agree with the parent comment, not
yours.

