
Ask HN: Been in dead end job for too long. Quit without offer in hand? - Wonnk13
For the last four years i&#x27;ve worked in what I now realize to be a very niche job that doesn&#x27;t leverage any of the skills in learned in undergrad or grad school, e.g. stats, machine learning, coding and who&#x27;s tasks don&#x27;t generalize to any other company. I&#x27;ve done almost exclusively professional services and IT troubleshooting for the last two years and my skills are absolutely atrophying.<p>I just failed another phone screen because I couldn&#x27;t reverse a string in place. I don&#x27;t have a CS degree and have never really thought about algorithms. I gave them two answers, &quot;foo&quot;[::-1] and &#x27;&#x27;.join(reversed(&quot;foo&quot;)) though i totally get they wanted the &quot;algorithmic&quot; way. I have the same problem with stats- &quot;talk about a time you used SVM&#x2F;random forests&#x2F;etc at your work&quot; ... well I&#x27;ve never had the chance to.<p>All this is to say I need a major course correction asap. Looking for new jobs while working this one is insanely stressful - that phone screen was at midnight due to the fact of me being on the opposite side of the Atlantic right now. I&#x27;m considering quitting without an offer in hand.<p>Who has quit to take time to refocus? I&#x27;m nervous because<p>1. Although the pay is great, I don&#x27;t have a huge liquid emergency fund. It&#x27;s all in my brokerage account, IRA, 401k etc<p>2. My only professional experience is with a company that&#x27;s not at all representative of the industry i&#x27;m trying to enter.<p>3. Given 2. I don&#x27;t trust myself to sit at home and &quot;reteach&quot; myself everything I studied four years ago.
======
phaus
Its far easier to find a job if you have a job. Also, you will be less likely
to make sub-optimal decisions if you don't have to worry about paying rent.

I don't know how many hours you work, but I have a wife, a kid, a full-time
job that I drive 1.5 hours to each way + I'm a reservist. I still find time to
learn new things. It would be faster if I didn't have a job, but its still
doable.

If you're stressed about the fact that your career hasn't gone the way you
imagined, you should remember that it isn't too late. I switched careers at
30, quite a few people do it much later than that. Just don't give up and
eventually someone will give you a shot at your dream job.

~~~
partisan
> Its far easier to find a job if you have a job.

I've found this to be true on a very practical level. When I go into an
interview while already employed, I have the confidence that the worst that
can happen is that I will still have my job. It removes a lot of the anxiety
that comes with the process of interviewing and that leads to a better
experience all around.

~~~
collyw
I found the opposite after being fired (for complaining that we weren't
getting paid - I was ready to quit).

I got sick of having to do dumb technical tests with every application when I
had been working all day, whereas with the spare time I was able to give them
a lot more attention.

~~~
Wonnk13
yes! you see, i don't know if it's immaturity or lack of desire, but my "take
home exams" always feel half assed. I'm just flat out of gas by the time i get
home from the office - last thing I want to do is another exam.

~~~
collyw
In my case its maturity rather than immaturity. I have seen it all before.

Why do another one of these crappy tests when it isn't particularly
representative of my job? I have code available that I can show you, talk
about, discuss the reasons why I did things the way I did. I don't need to
create yet another mini application rushed in two or three hours just to show
you I know what I am doing, or even worse a hackerrank challenge.

------
rhexs
I recently did this (with a very large emergency fund) and every interviewer
I've met with thus far has been very confused by why anyone would just quit. I
was working at a very stressful company undergoing multiple rounds of layoffs
and I was tired of dreading going to work every morning. That has not been a
satisfactory answer.

I wouldn't recommend it, especially if you don't have 6 months of reserves in
cash.

------
probinso
I'm going to give you different advice.

I take time off in between every job. I have never left a job for a job that I
had in pocket.

the neat thing about taking a break, is that you can focus on your own
projects. You can develop your own skills. You can do all of your own research
and work. it makes a good story for interviews if you have your own projects
and work to explore.

if you don't have income to support taking a break, consider trying to find
part-time work or just work in lower pay environment like teaching.

Igrow so much more in the months between employment. I always feel like I'm
able to return to the industry has a more marketable individual, and the sorts
of jobs that I've gotten have reflected that.

The only exception to this is if you have dependents. If you're just out of
college and you don't have dependents then it's ok to risk your livelihood for
personal reasons, and I encourage it.

------
pkaye
Since you are not passing the phone screens easily, I would suggest not to
quit before your next offer is at hand. Easier to get the next job when you
are already employed. Meanwhile continue to save up money should you want to
quit anyway.

Search online for interview questions in your niche of interest. Questions
like "reverse a string in place" are very common interview questions and you
need to get comfortable with them.

Be honest with your interviewers that you are looking for a change. You must
somehow convince them that the work interests you and that you can pick it up.

------
akulbe
Not only is it easier to find a job when you're already employed, but some
recruiters even deliberately overlook you as a candidate if you're unemployed.

I wouldn't even consider leaving until you have something else in hand.

~~~
horsecaptin
Seconded. Also, you'll have far more leverage if you already have a job - you
can push much harder when negotiating salary and benefits.

------
Jemaclus
My advice: don't quit. And don't stress too much about what you learned in
undergrad or whatever. I learned a lot in undergrad and grad school -- very
little of which translates to my day-to-day work. Don't worry about phone
screens either. Like dating, it's a numbers game. Give the answers you think
are good solutions, and if they disagree, then that's possibly a hint that
you're not a good fit. In my experience (as both an interviewee and an
interviewer), the ones who focus on algorithmic questions are missing the
point. There's a lot more to being a good developer than memorizing
algorithms.

Anyway, don't give up. :)

------
lewisl9029
I'd like to echo the sentiment that quitting without an offer in hand seems
like a risky idea. The extra time to prepare for interviews can definitely
look appealing, but plenty of others here have outlined all the ways quitting
prematurely could work against you, so I won't repeat that here.

Instead, since you don't have a formal CS education, I'd recommend checking
out an online algorithms course like this one:
[https://www.coursera.org/learn/algorithm-design-
analysis/hom...](https://www.coursera.org/learn/algorithm-design-
analysis/home/welcome)

Practically speaking, like it or not (and trust me, I don't), programming
interviews tend to involve a _lot_ of algorithms and data structures problems,
so having "never really thought about algorithms" puts you at an immediate
disadvantage compared to other candidates. Plus, gaining a grasp of the basics
of algorithms and data structures is going to be worthwhile regardless as it
will make you a better developer.

------
profmonocle
> Looking for new jobs while working this one is insanely stressful

So is looking for a job while unemployed, unless you have a substantial safety
net.

------
Kaizyn
You don't have a plan so it would be unwise to leave. You say your emergency
fund is deficient, why not figure out how to grow that to a safe margin over
the next six months or so? You are failing phone screens. Specifically what
field within ICT do you want to pursue? What are the skills that are the
absolute must for those roles? If you can't answer that, then you don't know
what areas of study to target. You may find after you do a gap analysis that
you only need to train yourself in a couple skills that can be incorporated in
some way into your day-to-day work.

If you just leave because you're fed up and you don't at least have a plan,
you're going to make things harder on yourself than necessary. You may even
find after you do your homework that there's a more fulfilling career path
with your same employer that you can easily transition over to.

------
CyberFonic
I wouldn't quit before landing another job.

I don't think your "dead-end" job is hopeless as you think. You didn't clarify
what the "professional services" entail, but if it is related to IT (as is
your troubleshooting skills), then you could look at jobs where your existing
skills and experience is valuable and you will able to refresh your CS skills.
Maybe a DevOps job which is more Ops than Dev initially.

Sometimes the route to the dream job requires a detour.

------
JSeymourATL
> I don't have a huge liquid emergency fund.

The Emergency Fund is a top priority. That will alleviate much of the stress
on your job search. Can you get creative on building that up? Cut expenses,
take on a side-project for additional revenue?

Meanwhile, suggest you start attending meet-ups and conferences in the space
you want to work. Connecting with new people often opens hidden opportunities.

------
chrisbennet
Here's some ideas:

(1) _Address the stress issue._ Get some sort of excercise or at least take a
walk after lunch. I personally don't like the "E" word (excercise) so
substitute things that are fun (mtn biking, skateboarding, climbing wall,
etc). Preferably with friends.

(2) _Charge your batteries_ Get 8 hours of good sleep. Everything is sooo much
harder when you're tired. It's hard to work on even a fun project when you
have no energy left at the end of the day.

(3) _Make learning fun_ Find some sort of project that interests you that
stretches you some. The idea is to learn algorithms for your project not just
because you wish you knew them in an interview. Let fun "pull" your learning
instead of guilt/duty/whatever "pushing" you to learn.

Do not quit your job before you have another. As someone else mentioned, some
places actually have a policy of only hiring people who have a job already.

------
zippy786
I think 1. matters a lot here. If you do have sufficient funds to go by a few
months, I don't see why you can't get a fresh job if you quit without an
offer.

I've done this before and am in a similar phase but working on my own startup.
Having free time would allow you to think about many things, relax a bit in
this stressful life and relearn algorithms and work on side projects. You will
be more focused and determined to pass the interview, it's like the final exam
that you cannot fail.

Bear in mind it may take 1-2 month to get the job, however you may even hit
the big four after preparing well. As for many people who say recruiter ignore
applicants without job, I would say ignore them! Or you could approach
recruiters/founders via linkedin which can be far more effective.

------
saluki
Don't quit, keep interviewing.

Think how insanely stressful interviewing would be if you didn't have your
current job. Having a job makes it easier to find a job. So relax, be
confident in your interviews, and keep interviewing till you find a good fit.

Save up an emergency fund.

You can work on polishing your skills start a personal project using new
technology or a stack you're interested in moving over to.

You don't need reteaching, most jobs you aren't going to use everything you
learned in school anyway.

Good luck.

------
moon_of_moon
After 4 years at a company you have influence. Use it to start a small project
in stats or whatever. Talk to people in the business if you need to, and build
something on the side that is useful for them. Use your influence to get the
project funded later.

------
sharemywin
your far better off trying to do a side project in the area your trying to get
into.

~~~
skraelingjar
I agree, I worked on a few side projects last time I was seeking a new job. It
not only helped me hone my skills but I also had fresh examples of my work to
show off. Like they said above, it's better to find a job while you have a
job.

EDIT: I re-read what the OP said about reteaching themselves. Maybe finding a
mentor will help.

~~~
ry_ry
It sounds like a throwaway side project where he/she has to practically apply
the skillset they want to cultivate would be a more useful experience than
hitting the textbooks, which is how I interpreted their last comment.

It could also be useful to have even a relatively shallow body of work to
demonstrate some degree of competency, given they've not been doing it
commercially to date and like every right-thinking individual, doesn't enjoy
algorithm-orientated tests!

@OP - personally I wouldn't quit. Depending on your annual leave/worktime
arrangements could you take 1 day a week off for the foreseeable future to
pursue your career change?

Alternatively could you migrate to (or even create) a more desirable role
within your current employer in the meantime? If you can demonstrate a strong
business case for it they might just facilitate your career change
themselves...

------
lgieron
Maybe try studying some algorithms during weekends? It will help you in
interviews and will also help you become a better programmer.

