
Study of Alpha Male Baboons Shows It’s Stressful at the Top - robg
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/15/science/15baboon.html?hp
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sambeau
That is the total opposite of other studies I've seen that showed it was
stressful at the bottom.

In other animal studies the pecking order seemed to mimic the amount of stress
each animal was under: more pecking; more stress.

One interesting human study showed that the most stressed person in large
company was the doorman. They theorised that he had total responsibility for
the safety of the building but practically no power.

I'll look for the sources

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jhamburger
It's not the total opposite. This article is saying that the top AND the
bottom of society are both very stressful, and those right below the top are
in the least stressful position. Personally, this does jive with my experience
in human society. Who struggles more with drug abuse, marital problems, etc,
the "rich and famous" or the "reasonably well off and relatively popular"?

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mattgreenrocks
I can relate to this.

I have high aspirations and expectations for myself. These often create very
good opportunities and reinforce my work ethic. But they also have
consequences outside of work that I have to pay for. I'm not good at relaxing
and I believe I always need to be working on something. Quite frankly, it is a
neurosis. Hand-waving comments about "reaching one's potential" as it relates
to evolution don't address the topic fully. There needs to be a balance, a
time to relax and say, "this is sufficient." The emotional side of your being
needs to be allowed the space to breathe.

Perhaps more nuanced thinking on this topic can bring down the level of alpha
worship we have in our culture.

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maratd
You are not a baboon. Social structures are unique to each species. You are
rationalizing and justifying your decisions. You don't have to. If it works
for you, that's reason enough.

> Perhaps more nuanced thinking on this topic can bring down the level of
> alpha worship we have in our culture.

There are no alpha/beta males in human society. An overwhelming majority of
males get access to females.

Do you mean admiration of more aggressive males?

I'd say that's flat out wrong. We send those to jail and execute them.

If anything, we admire people who get things done. Nobody cares how you do it.
If you don't admire people for what they accomplish, then what do you admire
them for?

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simonsarris
> There are no alpha/beta males in human society. An overwhelming majority of
> males get access to females.

This is absolutely false. What percentage of our ancestors were women? It
isn't 50%. Half of the people who ever lived were women, but thats certainly
not the case for all the people who ever lived and have a descendant living
today.

Thanks to DNA analysis we know that today’s human population is descended from
twice as many women as men.

To get that kind of difference, the figures have to be something like:
Throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only
40% of men reproduced.

In other words, most human males who ever lived do not have descendants who
are alive today.

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scythe
>Thanks to DNA analysis we know that today’s human population is descended
from twice as many women as men.

Link?

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simonsarris
The line is actually from a psychology address that I've had bookmarked for a
few years. It's pretty interesting, so I decided to submit it as its own
topic:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2767867>

Or the address here:

<http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~baumeistertice/goodaboutmen.htm>?

The line itself is unsourced, or at least taken for granted, in the address.

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mannicken
This is something I was thinking about lately. That competing for being an
alpha male/reproducing is just something society has to have and encourage to
exist. It's like going to high school; it's boring, it's not that much fun but
it's one of those things you have to do.

There are three main ways society can encourage reproduction:

1) Fear. Mainly fear of appearing a loser if you don't reproduce/have sex.
Peer-pressure in other words.

2) Positive reinforcement. Making sex more fun: sex-toys, apparel, Viagra,
etc.

3) Eliminate alternatives. Eliminating/making illegal things that are better
than sex/lead to decreased interest in sex -- like drugs that cause pleasure
greater than orgasm.

I was asking myself lately, "Why, stereotypical nerds, being so smart and
intelligent don't have much sex?" And then it hit me: because sex's pleasure
is overstated through propaganda. It's a physical activity that requires
immense effort and concentration, carries a ton of risk, and doesn't offer
enough in return.

You know why dumbest people often have more children? Because to exert so much
effort on so little in return means you have to fall into the traps of
advertisement, or just do it out of culture. If you stop to think what exactly
makes you want sex, you'll probably never stress over having sex again, just
like you don't stress over not drinking beer if everyone's drinking it.

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andrewcross
This reminds me of when I played the board game "Life" as a kid. I never
wanted the highest salary since you knew people would swap with you if they
could. The trick was to get that $80K salary so you could sneak under the
radar while everyone was trading the $90&100K salaries.

~~~
btcoal
"God had given him a tail to keep the flies off... he would sooner have had no
tail and no flies"

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MetaMan
Quote: "Researchers collected fecal samples to measure levels of stress
hormones called glucocorticoids".

So you can tell who the boss is by their shit !

Metaphorically speaking we've been doing this for years :-)

