
Nordic Ice Skating on Thin, Black Ice in Sweden Is an Art and a Science - monort
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/activities/winter-sports/skating-thin-black-ice-creates-sound-nordic-spd/
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cseelus
Here is the video without the very slow site:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3O9vNi-
dkA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3O9vNi-dkA)

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monort
Here is what happens, when he falls through ice:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5uQuRT3EE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px5uQuRT3EE)

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StavrosK
Wasn't he looking? That thin patch was really obvious.

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erikpukinskis
If you want to be safe, you need to intentionally fall in a lot in order to
practice getting out.

Generally true of all dangerous activities. This is the purpose of “play” you
practice dangerous things in relatively safe, intentional “silly” space, so
when you have an actual leopard trying to eat you, you’re not trying newbie
stuff for the first time.

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StavrosK
You make a good point, but I had a laugh picturing him going "alright, managed
to get out of the ice safely. I am 100% ready for leopard attacks."

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Sharlin
PSA: Never go to thin ice, or ice of unknown thickness, without company, ice
picks or claws [1], and a plan for how to get to warmth after a water
excursion. Remember that ice strength and thickness depend on multiple factors
and may vary rapidly from one spot to another. Make sure you know how to get
out of water should you fall in, and how to safely assist a companion if they
do.

[1] [http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-
claws/](http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-claws/)

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dmos62
A special note should be dedicated to river ice. The running water can pull
one under the ice, which is very dangerous.

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dghughes
And ice is thinner where there is running water.

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sorenjan
It's a bit weird seeing this now, since we're currently experiencing a heat
wave here in Sweden that's been going on for about two months now. It's around
30 degrees C and very little rain, so farmers have to send their cattle to
early slaughter since there's no food for them. The water supplies are really
low, and trees and grass have turned yellow.

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jnurmine
Yeah, inside the forests it is dry and one can really see how some plants are
struggling. It is a dry heat, barely any moisture at all. Today it was near
+30 C. The ground with pine/spruce needles and moss smells fantastic though,
something resembling warm cinnamon.

When one encounters a field or an opening with grass, it is more likely than
not burnt, yellowish ferns are a norm rather than an exception at this time of
the year, and ditches which used to have a stream of water are barren.

If the upcoming winter is dry without much snow, the ground water levels won't
be replenished and, with the lack of rain, next year will be worse.

The high heat creates local thunders with apparently do not carry much
rainfall. Lightning strikes seem to have started at least a few of this years
forest fires.

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cleetus
Searching youtube for ice skating on black ice led me to apetor a while ago -
one of the few channels I subscribe to. There's something strangely soothing
about how goofy this guy is.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Q2jwEX11U&list=PL73A6AD7F0...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Q2jwEX11U&list=PL73A6AD7F0D222DC6)

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Nokinside
What makes it safe is the assumption that when you fall, it's not a big deal
when you are prepared.

If you have been swimming in ice-water, you already know that you survive
several minutes without a problem. Ice claws hanging from a neck strap make it
easy to crawl into safety. You have dry clothes in watertight container in you
backpack if you are far away from warmth, of course.

~~~
russell_h
I was curious about ice claws and found this informative:
[http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-
claws/](http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-claws/)

Edit: and if I'd read a few comments down I'd have found this without Google.

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AngryData
I was expecting something fancy compared to the barn spikes I carry on the ice
with a name like ice claws, but nope they are basically the same damn thing.

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Doxin
Better handles for manipulating with cold numb hands seems like an important
feature.

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sctb
I'm fascinated by the description “laser-like” for this sound. Does this touch
on a broader synaesthetic phenomenon or it based on the historical sci-fi
presentation of laser/phaser guns? I suspect the latter.

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monort
I think the first use of that sound was in War Of The Worlds in 1953, they
didn't even had lasers at the time :) I couldn't find any explanation, how
they arrived at the sound (it's supposedly just electric guitar +
reverberation).

[https://youtu.be/G5H4yK_tiGI?t=116](https://youtu.be/G5H4yK_tiGI?t=116)

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kzrdude
It's very popular in Sweden really, it has had the right kind of lakes and
climate to often produce the conditions for it.

There's nothing "wild" about this, not more than taking a run in an actual
forest.

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Sharlin
There's also "wild swimming" [1], swimming in natural waters. From a Nordic
perspective there's little "wild" to it but apparently it can be an exotic
experience in other countries. I wouldn't be surprised if "wild running" was a
thing somewhere, after all in many places like England finding an actual
forest to run in can be highly nontrivial.

[1] [http://www.wildswimming.co.uk/](http://www.wildswimming.co.uk/)

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badosu
I don't understand, is there a way to assume you would swim in something
that's not natural?

For me, in Brazil, surrounded by waterfalls and beaches it's not only common
but also necessary for you to relax sometimes.

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Sharlin
I think in the UK both waterfalls and beaches are in short supply.

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ntlve
There’s quite a few beaches in the UK, [https://www.thebeachguide.co.uk/south-
east-england/](https://www.thebeachguide.co.uk/south-east-england/).

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Jun8
Mesmerizing video! A mathematician exercising predictive control over thin ice
brings to mind Kislowski's wonderful Dekalog 1
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog:_One](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekalog:_One)),
which is my favorite among the set of ten.

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oh5nxo
There seems to be a rule of thumb for black ice strength: kilograms =
centimeters squared times 5. Seems to jibe with recommendations for a 80 kg
walker (4 cm), 2000 kg car (20 cm) or big 48 ton truck (1 meter).

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s0rce
With less and less snow hitting the Sierra early in the winter season the
lakes stay snow free longer with good ice. I've seen people out skating,
particularly on the drier and colder Eastern Side. I think I'll try and go
skating up near Carson pass this winter, maybe hike out to Winnemucca lake if
I want to carry some skates in. Should be a nice change from hiking before
snowshoe/ski season starts.

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willmacdonald
I did some of this at Hellasgården, Stockholm in January this year. The rising
sun makes for a spooky video:
[https://youtu.be/WdmCIC2Hoks](https://youtu.be/WdmCIC2Hoks)

After learning more about this, I would only go with other people now.

Bonus video: [https://youtu.be/eGdvQVoQOUQ](https://youtu.be/eGdvQVoQOUQ)

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JadeNB
The current title here is "Nordic Ice Skating on Thin, Black Ice in Sweden Is
an Art and a Science". The NatGeo title doesn't currently have "Nordic Ice" at
the beginning, and it doesn't seem to parse (at least, not without a colon:
"Nordic Ice:" or so). Is it really supposed to be there?

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oh5nxo
If there is no ice on the lake, how about water motocross. With a dirt bike,
not an aquabike/waterjet.
[https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10298809](https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-10298809)
(finnish text).

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unwind
I love that "Trygg" literally means "safe" in Swedish. :)

Epic aptonym.

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ian1321
I live in Zürich and just met a gentleman who goes to Sweden and Russia every
winter to skate on frozen lakes. I had never heard of this, but was fascinated
by his videos, pictures, and stories.

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mcv
45mm isn't that thin, is it? As a kid, I always learned that ice had to be at
least 5 cm thick. This is only half a cm less.

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Sharlin
It leaves you with perilously little error margin though. You have to be very
aware of spots of potentially weaker ice, like places with water currents.
With such a small surface area, skates also create a much greater pressure
against the ice than shoes, though I'm not sure how exactly that affects the
dynamics in practice.

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mcv
We wore skates too, obviously. Weak spots were generally recognisable by there
being no ice at all, and we kept a safe distance from such spots.

A quick search turned up these guidelines for ice:
[http://www.natuurijswijzer.nl/ijsontwikkeling/ijsdikte/](http://www.natuurijswijzer.nl/ijsontwikkeling/ijsdikte/)

Is says:

    
    
      0-4 cm: unsafe
      4-8 cm: strong enough for a single skater
      8-12 cm: suitable for larger numbers
      12-15 cm: time for the Elfstedentocht (a 200km skate marathon; we haven't had one in 20 years)

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SOLAR_FIELDS
Careful, the website hijacks the back button (at least on my mobile device.
iPhone 7Plus.) One of the most infuriating design anti-patterns.

