
Why Would You Ever Give Money Through Kickstarter? - mecredis
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/magazine/why-would-you-ever-give-money-through-kickstarter.html?pagewanted=all&_r=3&amp&
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chez17
As a progressive younger person who has been swimming in internet culture for
15 years now, I find my attitude, wants, needs, and desires are almost
completely left out of pop culture. The news rarely people with my point of
view on it. The games I like to play are rarely made and instead it's CoD 143.
The music I like isn't on the radio most of the time. I feel like there are a
lot of people like me who like niche things they've found on the internet yet
get no respect in the more 'mainstream' world (NOTE: I'm not using that world
with a negative connotation). I like random stuff. Things like KickStarter
give people like me a say. It lets me 'invest' in a project that would not get
picked up by the normal distribution channels. It's almost a political
statement. If I have the ability to throw Tim Schafer $20 so he can make a
game without the normal pressures of the modern gaming industry (make it
appeal to as many people as possible which inevitably leas to dumbing things
down) then I'm going to give it a shot. It's literally the only way I see to
get involved. It's putting my money where my mouth is.

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wisty
If you want a non-hipsterish way to say "non-mainstream", "long tail" might be
better. Just don't tell the hipsters.

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nnnnni
Yeah but then you sound like a business-talk yuppie jerk.

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hnriot
The "long tail" phrase came from Chris Anderson. I wouldn't say the phrase
implies jerk at all or business type. It's a statistics thing.

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noonespecial
I've taken to kickstarting (et al) about $20 per month even if there's nothing
I really want. Think of it as a tithe to a weird little religion. Lots of
people more sane than I give a great deal more to churches and charities to
make their communities better.

Why? Because I want to live in a world where people do the kinds of projects
that kickstarter funds. It's better that way.

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SpikeDad
I might agree however I've been burned twice already by Kickstarter projects.
It's make me very gun shy.

However, I just got my Pebble watch and I'm very pleased. Might restart my
interests.

I would be more willing if Kickstarter management was even slightly involved
with failed KS projects. Their "It's not our fault" attitude makes me angry.

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jes5199
I think that's the wrong attitude - you shouldn't think of Kickstarter as
shopping. I've funded sixty projects on KS, so far, and I don't keep track of
which ones have succeeded. Okay, yeah, the Pebble was kinda expensive for a
random lark. But usually I just kick in $5 to $25 dollars - less than I'd
spend going out to dinner. And maybe, some months later, I get a surprise
package with something cool in it. I feel good about that.

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laserDinosaur
I've given money to a few KS campaigns, and while there are a few I don't
regret there are certainly some I look back at as being a sucker at the time.
I donated to Double Fine based on the knowledge that they have had a hell of a
rough history with investors and publishers. The chance to get a game out
through donations was offset by the fact that no investor would touch their
game. Investing in their game was under the pretence of we either fund it and
make it, or the game never gets made. I also invested some money into the
Shadowrun remake, a new studio run by some industry vets who as I far as I
know are making their first game. In this case I feel like I got suckered - A
new company, a classic IP, industry vets - It would seem like a great bet by
an investor. But it seems to me that they got to have their cake and eat it
too - They get to have people invest their money into funding their
development, but if they become the next EA/Activision (and who is to say they
won’t), they don't owe anyone jack all in returns. It's a suckers bet. They
want to risk the money of other people, but not share the spoils at the end of
the day.

I was talking to a friend the other night about this and we came up with a
metric to measure KS campaigns by. It's a simple question of "Would this
interest an investor?". If the answer is no but I think it's an interesting
project I'll throw some money towards them. If the answer is yes, they should
be offering the rewards of an investor, not just pan-handling for money and
shifting the risk to fans.

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alexqgb
Your approach depends on a very simplistic idea about investors. In reality,
the fall on a spectrum. Some demand low returns but insist on a high level of
confidence about the outcome. Others are investors in name only; what they
really do is glorified gambling. They are almost sure to lose, but the (slim)
possibility of an outsize reward goads them on.

The thing to appreciate is that Kickstarter can help creators validate an
investment-worthy idea in the marketplace, shifting it from the high risk /
high reward category to the lower risk / lower reward category.

That means more money from eventual sales can go into product and market
development, instead of an inveator's bank account. In many cases, the need to
pay an inordinate return kills good ideas in the cradle. By giving creators a
way to lower the cost of the capital they depend on KS opens a range of
possibilities that would remain closed if high-stakes gamblers were the only
bankers in town.

If you and your friends don't want to help these project either, that's fine.
But why take the extra step of mindlessly smearing the people who run them?
Personally, I see Kickstarter's ability to atomize risk as a good thing,
especially when it can drive down the cost of capital while checking its more
extortionate tendencies. I've never met a "panhandler" who can do that.

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steveklabnik
The first part of this article reminded me of freshman year of college.

\-----------------------

Me: See you later, mom!

Mom: What are you doing?

Me: Driving to <neighboring state> to go to a party and play Guitar Hero with
some people.

Mom: Neat. How'd you meet them?

Me: I haven't yet, we just know each other from the forums. Everyone's coming,
some people are flying in.

Mom: Isn't that dangerous?

Me: Why is it dangerous? I know them from the internet.

Mom: Exactly.

~~~
spoiler
My mum would have probably lock me in a cupboard... Still would, actually. :(

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dantheman
I think kickstarting with the expectation that you receive something is the
wrong idea. I think it works especially well for funding people to create
media or fund performances. It's a way for us to help fund/create the world we
want to live in.

~~~
n3rdy
Personally I would donate to a kickstarter project (or any similar platform)
that seemed like projects I would like to build myself, but didn't have the
time or skill to do so.

It seems too often that people forget that financial gain is not the end all
be all motivation to work on something. It's like asking somebody why they're
sitting on the couch watching TV, for free. Or why you're driving that car for
free. It's because you enjoy doing it.

It's not a strange person who would want to create something without getting
paid for it, even if others benefit. It's not even a strange person who would
pay money out of pocket to create something that everyone else got to benefit
from for free. So it's not a strange person who donates money toward an idea
they're interested in, expecting nothing in return.

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dpiers
I used to work in the game industry. Recently one of my former co-workers was
laid off, and he is using this time to finish a game he has been developing on
the side over the last few years.

Kickstarter is the easiest and most socially acceptable for him to put his
game out there and ask people to contribute to his development effort. After a
couple of days, he already has almost $2k pledged of his $15k goal, and I am
willing to bet he would not be anywhere near there without Kickstarter's
platform.

If you would like to support Tom and his retro tactical rpg with a fully
destructible environment, check it out here: <http://kck.st/VVPEio>

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jiggy2011
Surely in many cases the incentive is to get a pre-order of some item,
possibly at a reduced price that you might not have had a chance to purchase
at all otherwise?

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georgemcbay
If you factor in both risk and time to receive product, the discounts that
(sometimes, not always) happen in practice aren't _nearly_ worth it, IMO.

Eg. say someone is offering some new gadget for $100 as a Kickstarter reward,
and they then raise the price to $150 when it is an actual product (this
doesn't seem to even happen much, the product price for products that do
successfully make it to market is more often the same as the Kickstarter
price). You save $50 but in the meantime your money is tied up for months with
nothing to show for it, and it is entirely possible you will never get an
item. I'd rather just pay the $150 myself and get the product 2 day shipping
when it is actually a product.

This doesn't mean Kickstarter is useless to me as there are _some_ cases (more
the art stuff than the gadget stuff) where I think supporting the project is
more important than receiving the end product, but I certainly don't
understand why so many people backed OUYA, for example. I'm glad they did
because I will buy one when they are available via retail, but I didn't back
it.

~~~
corin_
Sure there's a risk, which can arguably (and subjectively) be weighed against
the pros, such as receiving a discount, or the possibility that if you don't
help fund it there might never be a final product to buy at a higher price.

As to your money being tied up for months - obviously it depends on the
amount, and on the buyer, but I'm sure quite a few funders can tie up $100 for
a few months without caring. If I'm going to spend $100 on something that's
available in 6 months I don't really care if it comes out of my bank account
now or then.

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georgemcbay
"If I'm going to spend $100 on something that's available in 6 months I don't
really care if it comes out of my bank account now or then."

I do. What if a better implementation of the same basic thing comes out for
$80 in 3 months?

~~~
corin_
Yeah you're right, I guess I was thinking in the context of things I have
supported on Kickstarter in the past. I'd definitely share your view for some
things.

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MaysonL
First Kickstart I ever backed (back in 2009) was to help a friend take her
play to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Purely friendship, and pride in her
accomplishment.

[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635470598/dawn-of-
quixot...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/635470598/dawn-of-quixote-
rides-to-edinburgh-fringe-fest)

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akennberg
As someone who ran a successful Kickstarter campaign, I think it's amazing.
For an inventor / creator it solves two key issues: raising necessary funding
to make ideas come to live, and a "go to market" strategy to validate it.
Especially for hardware ideas. I've also backed projects due to the pure
excitement that someone is out there interested in making something that I
want or need and don't have the time to do it myself.

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vertis
I can't really get into Kickstarter. It's one sided for people like me that
don't live in the US or UK (I'm in Australia).

I'm not even sure if I would run a Kickstarter campaign (I have a few things
that are would-be candidates). Still the fact that I'm not able to irks me to
the point of not wanting to participate.

It's an economy where I can put money in, but it's not possible to take money
out.

~~~
JosephHatfield
If you like the idea of Kickstarter but can't use it for some reason then
check out Indiegogo (<http://www.indiegogo.com/>).

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Scene_Cast2
The article resonates with me. Most of the kickstarter projects have a product
as their deliverable, and I thought of that as the norm.

Recently, I came across a page for a large-scale hobby project[1]. As I'm a
fan of that niche, and no-one has ever done it before, I wanted to see it
succeed - really much. Even though I know full out that I will only ever get
to watch other people play with it, it still gives me the immense satisfaction
of seeing it done. It's a similar concept to the article, I think.

[1] Ultra-large flying quadcopter,
[http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1671680066/incredible-
hl...](http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1671680066/incredible-hlq-heavy-
lift-quadcopter)

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Fargren
Seriously? "Zuran Orb vis-à-vis Claws of Gix"? You either need a 0 cost
artifact for a combo, in which case they are the same, or they serve quite
different purposes, in which case, why are you comparing them?

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incision
I've had reservations about Kickstarter [0], but I've backed maybe $800 worth
of projects and the experience has been positive [1].

However, I do maintain that Kickstarter needs to do _a lot_ more to make it
clear what pledging entails, specifically that it doesn't equate to buying or
even pre-ordering.

0: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4323835>

1: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4832427>

~~~
lukifer
Exactly. KickStarter is great if you have the right expectations: every
donation is a gift (and a gamble), not a purchase. If you're not willing to
risk losing money on a failed project, then don't donate.

It's a tricky line for KickStarter to walk: they need to set the right
expectations with users to stay credible and prevent backlash, yet they risk
scaring people too much and reducing donations, which is their bread and
butter.

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theevocater
Honestly I'm just blown away at how decent this article is. I feel like most
NYT articles I read on internet-ish companies come totally miss the point but
this hit Kickstarter perfectly. After rounds of negative press for
Kickstarter, it is nice to see a big old media company write something that at
least kind of "gets" Kickstarter.

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camus
imho Yes , but not for "work-in-progress" products (in case of hardware
stuff).If there is no working prototype then no.

If it is a software i would look at the person record and how many successfull
product that guy has finished and delivered and there is no reason why the
"kickstartee" cannot provide a working prototype either ( with limited
functionalities , ... )

