
Gillette's Ad Proves the Definition of a Good Man Has Changed - lobst3r
https://www.wired.com/story/gillette-we-believe-ad-men-backlash/
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towaway1138
It's been kind of shocking to discover that despite decades of strong support
for women, lesbians included, I've suddenly been deemed the enemy, by mere
dint of being a man.

For me it's bewildering and demoralizing. But watching young men, I think the
future cost will be great.

~~~
krapp
I don't understand why you appear to believe that objecting to the toxic and
harmful behavior sometimes encouraged and reinforced by masculine culture is
an attack on all men, or even on masculinity as a whole, but fair enough.
Frankly, I found the ad inspiring.

I suppose given the nature of the men's rights movement and the modern anti-pc
/ anti-feminist backlash in modern culture, it's just not possible to have an
objective cultural conversation about the nature of male identity expressions
of masculinity in modern society, pro and con, without it getting wrapped up
in the persecution complex that seems to form the core of modern male
identity. Maybe in a generation or two, though.

Have fun on that cross of yours.

~~~
towaway1138
I believe in addressing bad behavior on an individual basis, regardless of the
offender's demographics. I'll wager that I'm far less tolerant of such
behavior than you are.

If you want to change the world, name calling and gaslighting such as this is
not the way to do it.

~~~
krapp
>I believe in addressing bad behavior on an individual basis, regardless of
the offender's demographics

I mean...

>> _It 's been kind of shocking to discover that despite decades of strong
support for women, lesbians included, I've suddenly been deemed the enemy, by
mere dint of being a man._

...clearly you have no issue with labeling bad behavior by women and/or
feminists as a group, unless your earlier comment was in reference to some
unnamed individual woman, which would be a really weird non-sequitur, so I
don't see why you can't do the same for men.

Culture exists. Group dynamics exist. Men, like women, are individuals as well
as members of a complex and interconnected set of social, political and
cultural identities. One can recognize bad behavior in an individual while
also accepting that behavior can be systemic, and that men have been facing
something of a crisis of identity and purpose in the face of feminism. I don't
think it's incorrect to suggest that this crisis of identity has manifested
some harmful traits, such as an unnecessary defensiveness in the face of
criticism.

After all, there was nothing in the posted commercial that was an attack on
all men or on you personally, yet your response to it was to express how women
have apparently betrayed your trust and deemed you an enemy for your gender.

That seems an awful lot like a persecution complex to me.

>I'll wager that I'm far less tolerant of such behavior than you are.

I don't know why you would, but ok.

~~~
towaway1138
> That seems an awful lot like a persecution complex to me.

I seem to be in good company.

> I don't know why you would

When I describe my ideas on what should happen to men (and women) who commit
physical violence, virtually everyone thinks my approach is too harsh.

