
Ask HN: Finding a job as a software developer without having a degree? - xSingularity
Hello,<p>I&#x27;m a full-stack software developer mainly experienced in PHP 7.2+ and Python 3, who has around 5 years of prior work experience, currently located in Finland. I&#x27;ve been trying to find a job here for the past year, but I&#x27;ve been unable to do so, mainly because of strong bias against applicants without university degrees in the IT space.<p>I was planning to move to the United Kingdom around 6 months ago, and almost immediately I was approached by multiple companies offering lucrative jobs, regardless of the fact that I do not have an official degree.<p>The largest project I have worked on has offered services to hundreds of thousands of users worldwide. I have the skills, but I lack the studies, leading to my issues with finding a job.<p>What would be the best option for me? I&#x27;ve been trying to look at remote job opportunities, but most require me to live in their country or travel, which is something I unfortunately can not afford.<p>Thanks!
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ravioli_fog
I initially wrote a whole bunch of words... but people vary wildly.
Circumstances are different.

In my own experience I made the "world" of finding a job very small and
personable. I got interested in a niche language, found the local community
for language and met the other developers and business owners.

In that time I've worked with others, often remotely, that are also a part of
this same programming community. It would appear to me they took a similar
approach to what I had done but they did it online.

I would find programming communities that value individuals and are in need of
qualified candidates. PHP/Python/Java might not be that community.

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olegp
Are you certain it's the lack of degree that's been the problem?

I'm running a tech recruitment startup
([https://www.toughbyte.com/](https://www.toughbyte.com/)) and am based in
Helsinki, with many of our clients here. In my experience working on over a
hundred positions, a relevant degree is rarely a must. Many companies mention
a degree on the job ad, but are still open to interviewing candidates without
one. In fact, given that many people in Finland start working alongside their
studies and don't complete their degrees, the number of developers without a
degree might be higher than elsewhere. At Toughbyte, we have even managed to
relocate candidates without any degree to Helsinki from outside the EU.

I'd be happy to give you some feedback and advice, and maybe even suggest some
companies to apply to, so feel free to drop me a line at oleg@toughbyte.com.
As it happens, I'll also be running a workshop on how to find the ideal job as
a developer at the School of Startups at Maria 01 at 3pm today, so we could
also talk there in person.

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marsrover
Sounds like you’re between a rock and a hard place if the Finnish economy
isn’t robust enough to support software workers without degrees and you can’t
afford to move.

I know nothing about Finland but it sounds like you might need to get any job
you can for the moment (development or otherwise) and save towards moving to
the UK or the US (my personal bias).

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gexla
Maybe the market for web developers in your region isn't strong? If employers
can't find workers with their ideal list of qualifications, then they'll cast
a wider net. You might not be much better off in that market even with a
degree.

Going remote opens your options, but you have far more competition.

The hustler method is to hit the streets and get to know people. Find out what
problems people are trying to solve and what sort of help they need. Find
places you might like to work and figure out how to talk to people there. Hit
social networks such as Twitter and LinkedIn. You'll need to get creative.
People are going to be much more likely to find a spot for you if you're
talking to them rather than firing off applications.

And are web developers considered IT? Is PHP a fit for a company which has an
IT department? You might need to find a smaller, scrappier place to work.

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bdcravens
My entire career (since 1999) I've never had a CS degree. When I did contract
work it's never really been a hurdle for me. The longest I've ever gone
without work was maybe 2-3 weeks. (and honestly, in the entire time, I've
maybe spent a month or so on the bench)

Markets like Upwork and Freelancer are not-so-great options, but there's work
there. Codementor is a great place to find work, of various nature (mentoring
calls, small freelance projects, and bigger ones).

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Reubend
In my experience, startups care very little about what degree you earned,
whereas more "traditional" institutions care far more. I would advise you to
focus on networking and job searching within communities that have well-funded
startups, or young companies in industries that haven't matured yet.

The landscape of remote work could be promising, but unless you actually WANT
a remote job, I can't recommend that you pursue one just because of your lack
of a degree.

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ilaksh
In my experience it is not super hard to find remote software jobs if you are
willing or able to do things like the following:

\- have a very strong social network with lots of industry connections or
opportunities. This is not something I can pull off.

\- actually build some kind of demo specific to most jobs that you apply for.
Basically try to figure out what they would be hiring you to work on and then
start trying to make that and show them.

\- be willing to work for low rates that make you competitive with people in
countries with a low cost of living.

Remote work is extremely competitive actually. And onsite jobs with large
investments in the hire are also even more competitive because there are only
so many jobs like that available. And with the greater investment they can be
pickier.

If you want a actual high paying job, developing your social network might
actually be the most effective way. Then you basically apply through your
friends and avoid the normal application process.

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viraptor
What do you mean specifically about the applications in Finland - did you
apply and get rejected, or found the requirement and didn't apply? If it's the
latter, I'd recommend ignoring it and see how it goes anyway. If it's the
former... yeah, remote may be a way to work around that.

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throwaway8291
Throwaway account.

Although I studied CS and did most of the coursework, I do not have a formal
degree.

I do have public profiles, top ranked on a popular programming site, dozen
open source projects and I wrote a book.

In short: I had all the time in the world for a degree, if it weren't for all
the other activities I am involved in.

In the world today, you can contribute to a project easily and get hired.
Building a portfolio has never been easier.

In fact, my current job came to be because of a small tool, that I put online.

And I do have hundreds of ideas for portfolio (and fun) projects, which I
would be sure would get me hired at places. If I only had a few weeks or month
off to get them off the ground.

In short: Find some technology or problem you are interested in and try to
find a way to contribute in a friendly, and recognizable way.

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techcode
This is basically the first time I hear about any country with a bias against
developers without university degree.

Sure there might be general immigration law blockers.

Though pretty much anywhere in Europe that I've checked or know about. At
least in IT/Development, you can get a highly skilled migrant work visa
without university degree.

And just to be sure - with "I can not afford moving to another country" is not
money but family/personal reasons, right?

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PopeDotNinja
I have a suggestion:

\- hop on LinkedIn

\- searching for people, look for "software remote" with the location filter
set to Finland

\- find some people that have and/or hire for the kinds on jobs you want

\- do a bit of research on their company

\- reach out to them and see if they'd be willing to do an informational
interview on how they got the job, and I bet some of them will refer you for
interviews (ever heard the phrase if you want advice, ask for money, and if
you want money, ask for advice?)

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konradbartecki
Not sure if that answers your question, but I currently work at a company
based in Helsinki and we are hiring, but we use .NET. In my opinion I would
say that whether you are a team player or not is way more important here than
an IT degree, so if you are open to starting as a frontend and willing to
learn .NET please reach me out at konrad.bartecki@mash.com

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shrthnd
Starting a blog is a great way to demo your skills and ability to solve
problems.

Here's a relevant article with a few other ideas:
[https://daedtech.com/programming-job-without-
degree/](https://daedtech.com/programming-job-without-degree/)

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DoreenMichele
List of Remote Jobs or Gigs Platforms

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15GJtJ5qpk7H9Cl3xTBwv2FR8/htmlview)

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DerekQ
What stopped you from moving to the UK? If it's Brexit, consider a move to
Ireland instead. While PHP is not a strong language here, Python developers
are in high demand.

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joshmn
It's not hard. Show what you've put into production or open-source work. If
you see a job ad saying they require a degree, they're more than likely trying
to weed away incompetent people.

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jppope
Reading everything on this thread... I'd mainly agree... sounds like Finland
ain't the place.

