
Hoffa: TPP a punch to the gut of U.S. workers - walterbell
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2015/11/10/hoffa-trans-pacific-partnership-us-workers/75555086/
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walterbell
Melinda St. Louis of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch, and Ari Rabin-Havt,
speaking yesterday in a 1-hour panel discussion on the TPP,
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFHG0fZW3_s&t=15m40s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFHG0fZW3_s&t=15m40s)

 _" Of the 30 chapters of the TPP, there are only 6 that have to do with
traditional trade issues … the rest have to do with … "behind the border"
policies, which are basically our laws … In the text, we see an expansion of
the failed model, under NAFTA, that pits US workers against workers in other
countries, this time in Vietnam where workers earn 65 cents an hour, as well
as other countries such as Malaysia which has a huge problem with human
trafficking — modern-day slavery — we are very concerned that this continues
that race to the bottom … it leads to an overall depression of wages and an
increase of income inequality in the U.S.

… It's a trade of industries: we are going to favor our pharmaceutical
manufacturers, certain content producers receive favorable status — while
giving up other industries."_

~~~
snowwrestler
> It's a trade of industries: we are going to favor our pharmaceutical
> manufacturers, certain content producers receive favorable status — while
> giving up other industries."

Isn't this just describing the comparative advantage theory of international
trade?

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untothebreach
Did a double-take when I noticed the author's name. Jimmy Hoffa's
disappearance[1] is a pretty well-known mystery, at least here in Detroit, and
I guess I never knew that his son had taken over leadership of the Teamsters.

1:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Hoffa#Disappearance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Hoffa#Disappearance)

~~~
mc32
Me too. I thought they either dug up some old quotes and applied them to the
TPP, or there was another Hoffa. Interesting that this apple falling near its
tree.

~~~
untothebreach
Given the senior Hoffa's ties to the mob, I hope the apple fell at least a
little bit away ;-)

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lumberjack
Random idea: If protectionism works cannot a group of people decide to create
an internal economy where they purposefully trade with each other before
outsiders for all products that they manufacture? They will buy goods for
above real market value but the money will remain within their internal
economy. Biggest problem would be enforcing the contract.

I think this already sort of exists somewhat. If my close relatives,
manufacture something, I gladly buy their goods over those of their
competitors because yes, I am paying more but the money is supporting my
uncles, nephews and nieces. I think that's a net positive for me. They
reciprocate the favour. As a family we are wealthier than we would be
otherwise because, no, they cannot abandon their business and start new
businesses just so they could take advantage of competitive advantage. That is
unrealistic. They know only one market well enough and do not have the
resources or guidance to get into a completely different market.

I guess the Amish are another example of this and I believe Israel's Kibbutz
aswell.

~~~
moonchrome
Except that people who are globally competitive have no incentive in
participating - they can earn on a global market _and_ enjoy the
cheaper/better goods provided by others.

~~~
lumberjack
Well that's what trade deals are for.

You can convince a subset of those "globally competitive people" to
participate by vowing to buy their services over those of their competitors.
They lessen their risk of finding work and you get a larger economy.

You don't need everyone to participate, just a big enough economy.

Also one distinct advantage over a country doing the same thing, is that you
can choose who can participate or not. So once you reach the level of adequate
manufacturing for a certain good you can restrict participation of people
offering the same service/skill.

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moonchrome
>You don't need everyone to participate, just a big enough economy.

That might work for Amish but unless you plan on learning how to churn your
own butter and know someone who can print a CPU on to silicon wafer in their
garage I doubt it translates well to the real world.

As a software engineer this should be obvious to you - writing a software
service/program can solve a problem globally - few people can solve a problem
for hundreds of millions - specialization, automation, IT all changed how
things scale - I don't need to grow my own food anymore, farmer gets to enjoy
social networking, video streaming and games - win/win.

What you're suggesting is that we duplicate the work being done or do it sub
optimally so that we can benefit people who aren't competitive.

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clarkevans
"Protectionism" is the dog whistle rallying those who wish to circumvent
labour and environmental protections by making products elsewhere, yet,
selling them here in direct competition with those who follow the rules.

If only we could fashion trade agreements to lift all boats, removing tariffs
only when the production of a product is ecological and societally
sustainable.

~~~
davidw
When the US went through its own period of "getting ahead" \- it did a lot of
things that weren't very ecologically sustainable. There's an argument that
it's not entirely fair to tell other countries what they can and cannot do as
they go through a similar period in their history.

~~~
tw04
Of course not. But it's entirely fair to tell them they can't sell their goods
in our country if they're unwilling to play by our rules. They had the same
option when we were "cheating".

~~~
davidw
Not if they wanted any of the 'advanced' goods we were producing, like, say,
cars or chemicals or whatever.

Also, some people might view a large, wealthy, populous country imposing its
will on a smaller, poor country as not very nice.

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kailuowang
The software industry in U.S. did have a similar experience 5-15 years ago
when "outsourcing" is the fashion.

What came out of that, it appears to me, is a booming software industry with
more local competent and confident software engineers.

I am for reaching a economic global optimum.

~~~
guelo
It's silly to suggest that the boom is due to cheap overseas programmers
instead of the web and smartphone revolutions.

~~~
davidw
I think what he means is that there was a lot of 'doom & gloom' about how all
our jobs were going to India and so on and so forth. And here we are... things
are still going pretty well.

~~~
tw04
Because of explosive growth nobody saw coming at the time. I doubt the same is
going to happen with say - automobiles, or designer clothing. We can make a
pretty good estimate of what demand will be over the next decade.

~~~
snowwrestler
Nobody ever sees explosive growth coming; that's what makes it explosive.
That's why the U.S. generally manages its economy to permit and encourage
innovation, rather than to meet centralized predictions.

There are some early hints. The confluence of software, solar, batteries, and
cars is looking like something big could happen there.

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ameister14
I don't really like it when people try to evoke emotional responses to things
they haven't read.

~~~
burkaman
What makes you think he hasn't read it? The author is the president of the
Teamsters. While he maybe hasn't read the whole thing himself, he almost
certainly has a team of people helping him understand what it will mean for
his union members, since that's his job.

And this isn't just emotional writing, he's pointing out specific problems he
has with specific sections of the agreement.

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amyjess
And if Hoffa gets his way, US consumers will experience a punch to the gut.

Protectionism and "Buy American" is fundamentally incompatible with affordable
consumer goods. Hoffa's way will lead to you only being able to afford a new
smartphone once every 20 years. Televisions will become family heirlooms
because you just can't afford to buy a new one. Hope you like the outfit
you're planning on buying, because you're going to be wearing it for years.

I value the modern American lifestyle.

~~~
debacle
You're doing an immense amount of hand waving. I would much rather spend a bit
more money on goods knowing that they were made in a more socially and
ecologically stable manner and that their manufacture contributes to the lower
limit on my salary.

