
Why are glasses so expensive? (2012) - cantbecool
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/luxottica-eyewear-why-are-glasses-expensive/
======
carsongross
What would be interesting to me is an in-depth look at how this company is
able to sustain its near monopoly on the business. They do not appear to be
leaning on government intervention, and the product can be delivered via
e-commerce (zappos, etc.) so they can't control the sales channel that much.
The product is not that complicated to manufacture, has huge and recurring
volume and, as of right now, preposterous margins.

Are they that good at taking advantage of positional goods and marketing? Are
they litigious? Do they use kickbacks effectively? Are they buying out
competition, and, if so, how are they doing it and why is new competition not
emerging?

A situation like this appears to be a complete affront to nearly any economic
model I can think of, and demands attention.

Additionally, we in the startup community should all be sitting around and
thinking: "Wait, high margins, simple product and I can sell it online...
Wait, what?"

~~~
sp332
Well there is [http://www.eyebuydirect.com](http://www.eyebuydirect.com) My
brother has a few of their frames and they're not junk.

~~~
woodchuck64
Hmm...

"In 2013, French lens manufacturer Essilor purchased a majority stake in
EyeBuyDirect":
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EyeBuyDirect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EyeBuyDirect)

"France’s Essilor International and Italy’s Luxottica Group, the two largest
optical companies in the world, have ended merger talks that took place in
secret over the past 18 months."
[http://www.insightnews.com.au/_blog/NEWS_NOW!/post/essilor-a...](http://www.insightnews.com.au/_blog/NEWS_NOW!/post/essilor-
and-luxottica-end-secret-18-months-long-merger-talks/)

Okay, competition's alive for now. How long will that last?

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jasode
Both the eye exam and the glasses can be optimized to save a lot of money.

For eye exams, I used to pay the optometrist $153 ($117 refraction + $36
dilation). I later found out that Costco often has an optometrist on site in a
tiny office and will charge just $50 (and add +$20 for dilation). That's less
than half the cost of most other optometrists. A bonus is that the tiny Costco
office has no frames so there's no sales pressure to guide you towards his
limited selection of frames. Therefore, he always just prints out your Rx and
gives it to you without any dirty looks. Costco (the warehouse) has frames but
you have to walk next door into the main retail floor to try them. The
optometrist has no idea whether you buy glasses from them. You don't need to
be a Costco member to use the optometrist at Costco.

For lenses, I used to always pay ~$400 for 2 pairs of glasses. For Eyemasters,
Lenscrafters, Visionworks, etc, it didn't matter if they had "2-for-1 sale on
lenses" or "2nd pair frames free". The total (when including desirable
features such as AR coatings, etc) _always_ came to ~$200 for each pair. I've
come to believe the sales promotions at eyewear chains are as meaningless as
the "sales" at mattress stores.

Now, I buy from zennioptical.com. Each pair is always less than $35. That's
even cheaper than Costco and Walmart.

I think my recommendation won't work for people who are very sensitive to
fashion and want to try all the stylish frames at their fingertips. (Ralph
Lauren, Calvin Klein, etc.) At my age, eyeglasses are just functional things
and I'm fine with picking out a no-name classic style from zenni.

~~~
joshuapants
Zenni will give you glasses that are functional, I suppose, but they do cut
corners. I've tried a handful of the online glasses shops and have never been
terribly happy. The frames are cheaply constructed and not terribly durable
and the lenses seem to be of poorer quality. If I needed a spare pair to take
on a canoeing trip I'd get them from Zenni or some other cheap place so I
wouldn't have to worry about losing an expensive pair.

In terms of comfort and vision I'll pick the expensive glasses every time.

~~~
caw
I've purchased Zenni glasses for my last 2 prescriptions. The first pair I got
I found much more comfortable after replacing the nose pads with a kit from
Walmart. Otherwise the glasses are pretty good - lightweight, double hinged
and everything.

I reordered the same frames this past year and they seem to be fine, so I
don't know if they changed up the nose pads in any way or if I managed to
adjust the frames properly this go around.

For sunglasses I go with with Luxottica because of the premium polarized
lenses. I wear sunglasses 11 months out of the year so I definitely agree on
getting a quality pair.

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droithomme
Some glasses are expensive because it's what people are willing to pay.

I get high quality glasses with contemporary styled frames at WalMart for next
to nothing. Not only that but the WalMart optometrist is more competent and
does a better job getting my prescription right than the private optometrist I
used to see.

It's not as if WalMart is some exclusive club only available to the elite.

Anyone who wishes to do so may shop there and purchase their glasses.

They also have a very nice warranty. One pair got run over by a lawnmower,
which was entirely my fault. Free replacement.

It is a choice to pay $400 or more for the same glasses you can get for $60.
And as long as people are willing to pay $400, why not charge them that. Good
for the price gougers. They only exist because people prefer to go to price
gougers, since there is definitely not a quality improvement. Customers are
simply paying more because that's what they _want_ to do.

~~~
josu
>Some glasses are expensive because it's what people are willing to pay.

That's a truism. The question is why are people willing to pay that much? Why
hasn't cheaper competition gained a bigger market share?

~~~
Raphmedia
It's health.

People are willing to pay half a million for tiger bones in order to cure
"diseases". You can't go around selling tiger bones for $2, they would
obliviously not work.

Same thing for glasses. Same thing for walking canes.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
Point taken, though the effectiveness of glasses is (I would hope) a little
less likely to be the product of placebo effect. The high prices of glasses
feels more like a matter of branding and style, in the same way a t-shirt with
a swoosh on it costs $30, and one without costs $10 (USD).

~~~
Raphmedia
Yes, but the effectiveness of expensive glasses is little more than placebo
effect.

Look at Gunnar Glasses selling for very a expensive price while the tech is
something you could buy relatively inexpensively for ages.

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withdavidli
I remember watching the 60 minute video of the Luxottica interview. That guy
was so gangster in his responses. "The perception of choice", just outright
said it.

I've been buying my glasses online for the last 2 years now. 39dollar and
Coastal. Quality control for the frames aren't as good, but they work. On
average I pay ~40 vs 200+.

~~~
wahsd
"perception of choice" pretty much sums up the entirety of America.

~~~
wtbob
Luxxotica, of course, is an Italian company.

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drivingmenuts
Reading that just pissed me off to no end. Eyeglasses are not a luxury for me
- they're an absolute necessity. I kind of feel like I'm being preyed upon
here by a bunch of Italian ripoff artists.

~~~
voodoomagicman
check out zennioptical.com, you can find frames with lenses included for 10-30
dollars.

~~~
drcode
One pair I got at zenni for $6.96 is the best pair of prescription glasses
I've ever owned... it's inconceivable to me how it can be that cheap.

~~~
coldpie
Mmmh, you can get a brand new tiny pile of high-end electronics, including a
touch screen, for $50-100. Stamping out some metal and putting some glass into
it seems like something that should be around the $10 price point.

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jared314
Single material. Customized for each client.

This looks like a good place for 3D printing to start chipping away at
traditional manufacturing.

[Edit] I am talking specifically about printing the overpriced frames sold by
Luxottica. Not the lenses.

~~~
logfromblammo
Hobbyist-grade volume printing does not have the resolution necessary to
create an eyeglass lens.

But some old washing machine parts and an Arduino can grind out any lens shape
you might need from a printed blank. Building a garage lens grinder using a
volume printer wouldn't be any more complicated than replicating a RepRap.

You really could make a pair of glasses from one type of plastic. If you need
the temple pieces to fold (if it even has temple pieces), the same hinge
design used by whittlers to make pliers from a single piece of wood would
suffice, and could probably be cut with a laser of the correct wavelength.

~~~
jared314
Please note my other comment. I'm talking specifically about the overpriced
frames, not the lenses.

~~~
logfromblammo
Volume printing is best suited for applications that cannot be mass-produced.

Eyeglass frames can be described adequately by overall width and length of the
temple pieces. One machine can produce several similar styles of frame in all
the most common sizes before you can blink. If they don't have a brand name on
them, frames are dirt cheap.

The lenses are the unique element. If you're not including either the lenses
or the unique shape of someone's face in the printing process, there's just no
point in doing that instead of going to Costco or Walmart for a frame.

Or you could create a style so alien to current styles that it could not be
produced with current mass production machinery. Perhaps it secures the lenses
with nose and eyebrow piercings, or a hatband-like ring around the entire
head, or a pince-nez style that puts silicone hooks over your nostrils.

The lenses are still the majority of the effort.

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kevin_thibedeau
The bigger question is why are contact lenses so expensive? The molds are
undoubtedly costly but once made they can pump out millions of lenses and it's
not significantly more complicated than plastic eyeglass lenses that require
more material and have to be cut to the final shape of the frames.

Of course the answer is that employer subsidized insurance has created in
industry that can engage in predatory pricing when the bulk of the customers
aren't directly paying out of their wallet.

~~~
mlrtime
I've been using daysoft.com without issues. You should still go in for eye
exams to make sure your eyes are staying healthy.

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kazinator
I got my last two pairs of glasses at JINS in Japan. (Station mall at
Nagareyama-Ootakanomori.)

8000 yen, ready in 30 minutes. (Bells and whistles will cost extra: like
thinner lenses, etc. and some things have to be special ordered.) Stylish,
durable, perfect.

I can get a free cleaning and new nose pads at any JINS outlet. Did that twice
already with the current pair.

~~~
johntaitorg
I went to a place in Kyoto and had a very similar experience. Same day, cheap,
great quality... Japanese consumers don't put up with any shit.

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hafichuk
I assume this article is interesting because it tells you to "disable ad-
blocker" :) -pass

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bluedino
Having worn thick glasses since I was a young kid, I spent a ton of time at
the eye doctor.

Getting your glasses from an independent doctors office was insanely
expensive. It always seemed like a scam. Cheaper at the places in the mall,
but still could be hundreds of dollars.

I've seen the ads for $9 glasses online but good luck with the fit (they have
directions to follow to measure yourself) but you're going to still want to
see a doctor to have them checked and all. Best case, poor fitting glasses are
going to give you a wicked headache. I'm not sure what the long-term damage to
your eyes could be.

~~~
Consultant32452
I bought my "every day" glasses from a "legitimate store." In my case it was
an eye doctor in my local Costco. Then I used all the measurements and
information from my prescription to order some $15 prescription sunglasses
from a cheapo online vendor. The fit was pretty good, but the tint was really
lame and "cheap" looking. Fine for my purposes since I rare need sunglasses
and I'm not particularly fashion sensitive, but I wouldn't have wanted to wear
them all the time. You may infer here that I would've been fairly pleased with
my cheapo lenses if I hadn't gotten them tinted. They'd have been an amazing
deal for $15.

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ngokevin
Zenni Optical, frames start at 6.95 including prescription lenses. They handle
all their manufacturing and supply chain internally which is how their get
their price point low.

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stephengillie
This page doesn't work for me on Android. I can't actually see any content,
just a CBS splash page with a download link.

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shaunrussell
I've been buying my glasses at a certain website that is very cheap and has
great promo codes. All you have to know is your prescription. They are sort of
cheap feeling, but they work and have stylish shapes. Also can buy 4 pairs for
less than half of what I'd pay at LenseCrafters.

~~~
shillster
What was your experience like getting your prescription details from
LensCrafters? I've heard they don't like give up the details to allow
customers to easily work with a competitor.

~~~
magicalist
They can be a total pain about it, but remember (in the US at least), you are
guaranteed access to your prescription:

> _Your eye care provider must give you a copy of your contact lens and
> eyeglass prescriptions — whether or not you ask for them._

[http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0116-prescriptions-
eye-...](http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0116-prescriptions-eye-glasses-
and-contact-lenses)

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JoeAltmaier
I endorse zennioptical.com I got my glasses for $28 including shipping. Better
than what I get at a chain optometrist (probably where they go to order them).
They've got 10's of thousands of frames; all the lens options; bifocals or
trifocals and so on.

Costs more for fancier options.

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fl0wenol
Get your designer eyewear or sunglasses from a competitor
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safilo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safilo))

It's not really any cheaper, but at least you can go with the "underdog", as
it were.

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xerophyte12932
Isn't this mostly an American problem?

I live in Pakistan and have never worn a pair worth more than $30 (and that
includes the price for the lenses).

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jkot
If you are willing to pay... I get eye test and new lenses every year, and pay
around 80 euro for both. New frame is around 70 euro.

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cridenour
There is at least one startup doing some innovation - Frameri.

[https://frameri.com/](https://frameri.com/)

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rayiner
Glasses aren't expensive. I keep $10 polarized sunglasses in my car (because
you never lose the cheap ones).

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johntaitorg
Get your Japanese wife to take your prescription to Japan and get good glasses
for <£100 (<$100).

That's what I do.

~~~
xerophyte12932
$100? Try Pakistan, good glasses for $40 (includes prescription lenses)

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myopticalshop
Not so expensive here:

myopticalshop.com

You can get rimless glasses for $50 and high-index (1.71) lenses with frames
for $200.

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niche
Read: "The Art of Seeing" by Huxley

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shillster
Inelastic good, supply controlled by cartel.

~~~
carsongross
But, given the traditional understanding of markets, one wonders how the
cartel (really, this appears to be more of a monopoly) is able to sustain
itself. There does not appear to be very high barriers to entry, and with
obvious online sales channels available... This seems like a great industry to
disrupt.

~~~
shillster
What about buying out the competition? The "consolidation" in the industry is
what has led to a decrease in competition.

~~~
carsongross
Sure, but the typical logic applies: margins get high enough and new
competitors come in.

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zomg
monopoly!

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pbreit
Why is ___anything_ __so expensive?

