

Rms: Why you should not use Uber - smalera
http://qz.com/319592/why-you-should-not-use-uber-the-car-ride-brokering-company/

======
gus_massa
Previous discussion of the original source:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8812340](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8812340)
(128 points, 1 day ago, 145 comments)

------
pc86
Comments from the article, whether true or not, have nothing to do with
whether or not I should use Uber:

> It requires passengers to run a nonfree program (an app).

> That app requires running other nonfree software (in the case of Android,
> Google Play).

> It requires you to let Big Brother track you, with a portable phone. _This
> is sort of implied by #1_

> [...] some women [are] scared to use Uber. _Not because this may not be the
> case, it just doesn 't affect me._

> Uber is an unregulated near-monopoly, so it can cut rates for drivers
> arbitrarily.

> Some [drivers] are trying to unionize.

> Uber plans to do away with human cab drivers.

> With real taxis, you can flag one on the street or phone in any fashion

Comments from the article, _if true_ (I have no idea if the individual ones
here are or not), should affected whether or not I use Uber:

> Drivers are starting to complain that they’re left with little money for
> their work.

> [Uber drivers] have to work 15 hours a day

> Uber executives and staff have stalked passengers in various ways.

> Journalist Sarah Lacy writes about how an Uber executive said he would
> punish her critical journalism by using lies to smear her family life.

This seems fairly alarmist, even for Stallman (I don't mean that to be an ad
hominem), but it's just not very convincing to me.

------
chrisball91
This article has an interesting angle to it but some of the points made are
more opinion than actual objective issues.

Uber being the new and disruptive company that it is, is of course going to
have some kinks and issues along the way. However like any unicorn tech
company it's about establishing themselves in the market first and clearing up
some things as they go along or at a later date. Name me a breakout tech
company that hasn't had some sort of scandal or major issue at some point.

Some Of The authors points: "It requires you to let Big Brother track you,
with a portable phone." Phones can be traced and pinpointed by big brother
regardless of what apps are installed, as long as you've got signal you're not
anonymous. Tracking is an integral part of the uber value proposition and
experience.

"Uber requires you to identify yourself, both to order a cab and to pay." I
can't speak for other cities but here in London people do taxi runs, dispute
fares just to take the piss and drivers can face racism from passengers.
Identification and thus accountability through Uber is refreshing.

"Uber also records where you get the cab and where you go with it." So if an
Uber Driver was to take a lone women somewhere unrequested, the fact the
journey is tracked could only help this women and the police. By law here in
the UK cab drivers have to take the quickest route possible, again the
tracking provides safety and security for the passenger from being over
charged.

"Drivers are starting to complain that they’re left with little money for
their work." Uber is not for all drivers. Here in London every Uber driver I
talk too who has a hybrid electric car loves driving for the company. They
make more money from Uber then they did driving for tradition cab companies.
If it doesn't work for a driver with a petrol intensive engine, nothing is
keeping them tied to the company.

"Its practice of identifying passengers enables drivers to find out who the
passenger is. This makes some women scared to use Uber." It's practice of
identifying cab drivers and their car registration details enables users to
have an arsenal of information to hand to the police should a driver be rouge.

I cannot help but think that bot the tracking and identification that's so
integral into Uber actually creates a safer and more enjoyable experience for
users and for drivers. Uber drivers here in London tell me that the people who
use Uber tend to be a higher quality and more pleasurable person to drive. I
once left a driver with a 1 star rating and someone from uber got in touch
with me right away, to say they don't really care about who's driving for them
is nonsense.

------
sighsigh
Can HackerNews please stop sympathizing with nationalist unions? The perpetual
civil war that was the 20th century ended quite some time ago. You can stop
fighting those battles now. The losers of that fight have been preordained and
now everything just has to play out How do I know this? Simple.

When automated cars happen, services like Uber win and antique systems of
unions will run to pedantic legal protectionism. When did HackerNews become
the hub of pro-nationalist union propaganda anyways?

~~~
readme
"Can HackerNews please stop sympathizing with nationalist unions?"

Nationalist? There's nothing nationalistic about taxi driver unions. In my
experience taxi drivers are usually foreign.

Not to mention that you've attributed all of hacker news to one hive mind that
should agree with whatever you think. I would imagine most people here are
rather insulted by that notion

You've also presented no real facts or arguments for why Stallman's article is
pro-union propaganda. On the other hand, he's presented many compelling
arguments for why Uber is an invasion of privacy when compared to a normal
taxi service.

I agree unions are not helpful: what we should really have is a sound set of
labor laws that oblige companies to treat workers fairly instead of leaving
them to bargain for it.

~~~
sighsigh
So taxi drivers are going back to their native countries at the end of every
shift?

Unions, especially service unions revolving around local physical
transportation, depend entirely on nationalism. Without a sympathetic federal
entity that can supersede local definitions of what work is, you're just a
ragtag pack of misfits.

And owning a cellphone in general is an invasion of privacy. To single out
Uber and ignore the NSA entirely is the hallmark of a hit piece's attempt at
deflection.

You can't force anyone to treat anyone fairly. All negotiations between two
people are exactly that: Between two people. Adding an arbiter only
centralizes corruption and makes it easier for the already powerful to get
even cheaper labor. Cubans get paid $30 a week while the arbiter mechanism
takes the rest.

I think the problem is HackerNews is full of people who grew up in free market
capitalism and are now fantasizing about what life would be like under
mythical unicorn unionism. It's like some kind of forbidden fruit around here.

~~~
samman
_> Unions, especially service unions revolving around local physical
transportation, depend entirely on nationalism. Without a sympathetic federal
entity that can supersede local definitions of what work is, you're just a
ragtag pack of misfits._

I'm not so sure that's the case ultimately. If all of Uber's drivers banded
together and simply decided not to drive until their terms were met, they'd
likely have a good deal of leverage over Uber without any government
intervention required. _That_ is the basic concept of unions. Of course,
companies have historically tried to circumvent or supress unionized labor in
the past, to varying degrees of success.

~~~
sighsigh
> If all of Uber's drivers banded together and simply decided not to drive
> until their terms were met, they'd likely have a good deal of leverage over
> Uber without any government intervention required

I have experience with unions and I can tell you that if every Uber driver on
earth were to protest right here, right now.. and all you will be doing is
creating job openings for other people who will happily get paid less to get
the job done.

Driving people to and fro isn't exactly a highly skilled job and there is no
shortage of people who are made poor because of a car payment.

Comments like this are just more proof of HackerNew's magical thinking
regarding unions.

~~~
jljljl
>> I have experience with unions and I can tell you that if every Uber driver
on earth were to protest right here, right now.. and all you will be doing is
creating job openings for other people who will happily get paid less to get
the job done.

It depends on how many within the pool of potential Uber drivers join the
union, and consequently how great the impact on supply is. If the majority of
current Uber drivers agree to representation by a union, I'm not sure they
will be so easily replaceable.

>> Driving people to and fro isn't exactly a highly skilled job and there is
no shortage of people who are made poor because of a car payment.

User's brand and pricing relies on skilled drivers, since the driver has to be
efficient, knowledgable, and courteous enough to warrant high ratings (Uber
drops drivers with low ratings). It also requires drivers who have access to a
vehicle that meets Uber's standards.

I'm not sure the job is as low skill as you characterize.

~~~
sighsigh
It's low enough that robots will do it in 5 years. No amount of down votes is
going to stop that. Lol @ hacker news burying this obvious technical
advancement in the name of mythical unicorn unionism.

