
Making More Outside The App Store - shawndumas
https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2017/02/10/piezos-life-outside-the-app-store/
======
rcarmo
I think there is an elephant in the room here, which is that app stores (Mac,
iOS or otherwise), besides all the requirements for inclusion (sandboxing,
approvals, etc.) have become massively unmanageable dumping grounds, full of
junk that is very hard to sift through for the normal customer.

Yes, they afford some credibility, trust and security (even though evil devs
are constantly pushing the envelope), but even simple mechanisms like search
are fundamentally broken on Apple's stores.

And it's not just about devs gaming the keyword rankings (I see enough of that
when my kids search for games). It's just hopeless.

So no wonder RogueAmoeba makes more money off the App Store. Even discounting
other factors, their (rather specialized and very, very cool) apps are just
easier to find via web search.

~~~
tempodox
There is a massive irony in the fact that Google yields better search results
for iOS and Mac apps than the AppStore.

I've gotten to the point where I use the AppStore only in absence of
alternatives.

If Apple wanted to get more into services, the AppStores would be an obvious
and easy way to demonstrate their ability and willingness to provide, if not
valuable, then at least usable services. And all they do is botch it.

~~~
gcr
Agreed 100%. The only time I use the App Store is after I know which app I
want to install. Discovery is still very poor if you want to find something
that wasn't featured.

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bsaul
App stores for mobile phones were very convenient at start because they
provided a safe gateway to curated content, and globally enhanced the quality
of what independant developpers released. But now it's clearly a hindrance. I
wish the european union would force Apple to enable the installation of other
app store (distributing legal software of course) on their device.

Actually, a good start would be to have the "don't distribute an app that has
the same feature as a preinstalled one" clause declared illegal.

~~~
x0x0
And I hate that idea.

I get people in my life to buy ios devices precisely because, even when they
try, they are unable to install malware. That is not a feature any other OS
has. Particularly the over-easy access to sideloading on android.

Just last month my MIL managed to get her bank account password stolen because
she used it on her PC and installed who knows what from one of those fake
Microsoft support pop-over ads. The solution is to only access bank accounts
on ios.

It's really a major selling point of the devices.

~~~
dalbasal
I think you're both right.

IOS (and to a large extent, android) have genuinely found an OS paradigm that
works for unsophisticated users and put more power and confidence in their
hands. The appstore is a big part of that. The icon=app rule is another part,
where removing an icon removes the app. Users have a much improved
understanding of their phone's software on an iphone relative to a windows/osx
PC.

That said, it also limits the more sophisticated user and puts more power into
Apple/Google's hands than I'd like.

It's 10 years later now and it's time to fill in some of the holes. Allowing
alternative appstores would be a good start and wouldn't affect most users who
are happy with the app store as is. Removing anti-competitive curation rules
and practices would be good too.

~~~
bfred_it
Why would Apple give up their 30% margins? It makes no sense. Not until
they're somehow forced into it, anyway.

------
camtarn
For context, the app (Piezo) in question was removed from the Mac App Store
(not the iOS App Store, as I first assumed on reading!) by its developers.

It's an audio recorder which can record audio from other apps. The App Store
introduced a sandbox which prevented the app from working, but they got around
that by simply not updating the app and thus retaining the ability to work
outside the sandbox. However, other apps introduced changes which broke Piezo,
and which needed a fix which couldn't be distributed via App Store, finally
killing that methods of distribution.

[https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2016/02/12/piezo-1-5-arrives-...](https://weblog.rogueamoeba.com/2016/02/12/piezo-1-5-arrives-
piezo-exits-the-mac-app-store/)

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kalleboo
I still search for apps with Google instead of in the App Store, even for iOS
apps, since the App Store is such a terrible user experience (poor search,
slow loading, glitchy, limited information compared to websites)

~~~
AsyncAwait
App Store sometimes fails to find the app I am looking for, even if I know the
name of the app.

------
fit2rule
I think one thing that might make a difference in this regard is inclusion in
the brew Caskroom list .. I've installed more apps through 'brew cask' than
through the Mac App Store, that is for sure, and usually its because I was
able to quickly and easily search, locate and discover apps very rapidly with
a simple 'brew search' .. its at the point where I consider inclusion in the
Caskroom repo's more important than App Store submission at this point. I
trust the community software collections a _lot_ more than the 'official
Apple' channels, for some reason - I'm sure its not rational, but more just a
fear of corporate control and the ultimate denigrating effect it has on the
quality of software.

Plus there's the whole 'brew update && brew upgrade && brew cleanup && brew
doctor' factor, that gives me - rightly or wrongly so - the impression that I
have far more control over the software on my system than that granted me by
the graces of Apple.

~~~
skinnymuch
I use Cask a ton too. But we have to be in the huge minority. No one I've
shown Cask to has ended up using it. I'm mainly talking about slightly above
average techies or a few people who are comfortable with the cli. I doubt any
paid software listed in Cask has their download numbers change by more than a
few percent, if that.

------
hossbeast
This post is about the Mac App Store, not the iOS App Store.

~~~
ge0rg
It took me several paragraphs of wondering how they circumvented the iOS
restriction until I realized that. They really should have added "Mac" to the
title.

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pfranz
Someone mentioned it in the page's comments, but I'm really surprised they
didn't even caveat what they get for paying Apple 30% (much of this is
redundant if they already sold outside of the App Store); download/update
infrastructure, payment (and refunds), security (serial numbers and piracy
protection), customer support and service support for those things. At least
as an individual developer, that's all stuff I wouldn't want to deal with if I
was shipping something.

Clearly, Apple has dropped the ball on making the App Store compelling. It's
sad that a classic indie Mac app brand like Rogue Amoeba only offers one app
(Fission) for sale in it.

~~~
ikonst
I think Rogue Amoeba was already doing serial numbers etc. for their other
products.

re Payments: Have you ever seen how easy Stripe is?

~~~
pfranz
I did mention that selling apps both in and out of the store requires you to
set up many of those things. I was just surprised they didn't even mention it
as a caveat because the way the article is worded it sounds like not being in
the App Store equals 30% extra profit.

I haven't used Stripe (but have heard good things), but it's still not free.
With the App store you don't necessarily need a webpage and all of the costs
associated with designing, deploying, and maintaining.

------
hellofunk
My main concern about releasing outside the app store is the security of
licensing. The App Store takes care of that for you, but common licensing
systems for Mac and Windows Desktop (like Nalpeiron) are quite expensive. And
there would be significant developer time integrating them. Are there better
alternatives? Perhaps it is not as hard as I imagine it to be to roll your own
payment and licensing service?

The App Store is also good if you want to sell app subscriptions. That too
would seem complicated to do on your own.

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k__
PWAs are the future :)

~~~
bfred_it
Have you seen what kind of software Rogue Amoeba produces? They can barely
make it work without kernel extensions, let alone browser APIs that would take
years to develop and mature.

~~~
k__
Sure, but apps like that aren't the majority :)

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glasz
the mac is dead. i said it. downvote. i don't care. but it's dead and so is
the app store.

i hear they're rewriting the entire app store backend, ditching web objects.
but i'm having a hard time seeing them rebooting the bloody thing in some
serious manner to adress the issues.

$200b to spend and just a few things don't get better. it's sad.

~~~
fit2rule
They have to compete with brew cask, in my opinion, and that's just not going
to happen in a way that pushes the homebrew developers out of the market.

Much better to have community-curation than corporate-curation in my opinion.

~~~
supercoder
What is competing with brew exactly ?

~~~
fit2rule
Having an open community which curates apps on a regular and consistent basis
instead of a closed hegemony which doesn't have its users interests as a
priority.

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simplehuman
Not sure about this. I feel safe and secure thanks to App Store. Won't
download any app outside it.

~~~
charlesism
I wouldn't feel safe and secure without "Little Snitch" installed. Don't look
for it on the App Store, it will never be there.

