

Physicist Uses Math to Beat Traffic Ticket - bhavin
http://www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.cfm?postid=4656335810518469535

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joshmlewis
Yeah, that took some dedication, and because we aren't all as dedicated or
physicist here are some practical tips I've learned:

1\. When an officer asks how fast you were going, never say anything over the
speed limit or that's automatic guilt. Just decline to know or tell. A lot of
people say within a +5-10mph range over the speed limit because they think
that is "ok", but in fact anything over the speed limit is speeding and is
ticket worthy.

2\. Look up laws in your area about loopholes. I once had a friend who got
pulled over for doing a burn out in his Cobra, the officer was so aggravated
he forgot to wear his hat when he got out of his car and the case got
dismissed because of it.

3\. Always be polite. Always, always, always. Even if they're real jerks,
which has never happened to me, always be courteous and make things go as
smoothly as possible. If you start being an ass they WILL remember it and will
take that into consideration when writing the ticket and/or in front of the
judge. You'll have a chance to give your side in court, so don't bother
wasting your breath with the officer.

4\. I once got out of a reckless driving ticket ($400+, I was young and dumb)
because I just happened to know the director of the area highway patrol. It
turned out I was in the top 5 worst tickets the highway patrolman had ever
given out in his 20+ years of duty. My director friend told him I was a good
kid and my parents were going to kill me anyway, so he let me off.

5\. And really, the single most best way to not get a ticket, don't break the
rules. Of course in this guys case the officer apparently was mistaken, but
more times than not that's not the case.

This got large quickly. Just some things I've learned over a few years of
driving.

~~~
KingOfB
Other Helpers:

\- Use the most official title: 'Yes Trooper', 'Thank you sheriff', etc.

\- Be honest, authentic and remorseful, but not apologetic. (I don't agree
with #1)

\- Be well groomed. After I got my beard and hair cut, I stopped getting
tickets. I've gotten 8 consecutive warnings, most verbal. Before getting
'cleaned up', I got 9 tickets and 1 warning.

\- Have a woman in the car. Doesn't have to say anything, just smile and reply
to questions.

\- Pull over, turn on the dome light and leave your hands on the steering
wheel. I lower my window when a flashlight hits me, and only get paper work in
response to a command.

My streak of warnings still dumbfounds me. I even got pulled over twice after
a superbowl for a tail light and got a verbal warning twice.

~~~
joshmlewis
Yeah I didn't mean to be dishonest there. Honesty does help. But it also makes
it an auto admission of guilt. Use discretion playing either card really in
your situation.

------
sosuke
The paper was submitted April 1st according to
<http://arxiv.org/abs/1204.0162>

April fools perhaps?

~~~
whackberry
Does look like so. No judge I know would spend even 5 minutes on a misdemeanor
case such as this one.

------
defen
If you're in California, trial by written declaration[1] is a great way to
deal with minor traffic violations. The way it works is that you fill out a
form[2] giving your version of events, and submit a check for the amount of
the ticket. The beauty of this is that the officer also has to fill out a form
giving his version of events - and if he doesn't, you automatically win and
your money is refunded. It's the equivalent of the officer not showing up to
your court case. If he does submit the form you might still win if the judge
sides with you. And if you lose, you can request _another_ trial by written
declaration. I'm 2/2 using this strategy for minor violations, and I haven't
had to waste any time in traffic court. In both cases I won because the
officer did not submit his version of events - probably because it's boring
work and they had better things to do.

[1] <http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40902.htm>

[2] <http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/tr205.pdf>

------
bcl
A friend of mine beat a speeding ticket once by demonstrating that it was
physically impossible for him to have slowed down from the claimed speed and
stopped in the location where the officer wrote the ticket.

~~~
lotharbot
A guy from my parents' church beat a speeding ticket by demonstrating that the
motorcycle cop would have had to reach a speed of over 160 mph in order to
clock him at the speed measured at location A and then catch him by location
B.

------
dmd
> or maybe he was simply impressed by the sheer dedication Krioukov put into
> avoiding this ticket.

This seems more likely.

I beat a speeding ticket with GPS data once - except the judge didn't even ask
to see the data. I just said I had it. (Yes, the officer was there in court
too.) The judge said he'd take my word for it.

~~~
0bs1di4n
My friend always appears in court after getting speeding tickets because it is
apparently more costly for the court to pay for the session and the officer's
time than what they will get from a ticket, so they usually dismiss it to save
money. Sometimes the officers don't even show up. He has told me it works
every time.

~~~
kelnos
If you lose in court, though, aren't you required to pay the cost of the
session? (I have no idea, never done it before, just curious.)

~~~
dmd
Actually, you even have to pay a court fee in many districts if you WIN in
court.

In the above case, I had to pay a $25 "court fee", even though the case
against me was dismissed.

------
drucken
Haha, nice way to beat the system. But I doubt the symmetry of those two
graphs.

Surely, there is no (ordinary) retail car on the planet which can accelerate
as fast as it decelerates?

~~~
xxbondsxx
MechE here, the limiting factor for car accelerations is usually the static
coefficient of friction between the car tires and the road, _not_ the power of
the brakes or strength of the engine.

Without ABS braking, it is quite easy to "skid" while applying a harsh brake
because you overcome the limit of force between the tires and the road.
Similarly, it is quite easy to "burnout" as well with a strong engine for the
same reason.

So although the strength of the two systems is not the same, the limiting
factor for both of them is identical. Hence, symmetry.

~~~
cellularmitosis
This is true for the deceleration side of things (nearly any car can lock it's
brakes at any speed), but on the acceleration side of the curve, this is
typically only true in first, and perhaps second gear. It would take a truly
obscene amount of power to smoke the tires while already in 5th gear (assuming
you dont "cheat" by popping the clutch).

~~~
xxbondsxx
Obviously burning out in 5th is almost impossible, but I was considering the
stop sign case where you are starting from rest in 1st gear.

------
huhtenberg
> _I want to ask the readership to please find the flaw in the argument._

"The officer had special two-week training that qualifies him to estimate
angular velocity whichever the fucking way he wants, even with a completely
obstructed view."

Courtesy of Canadian reality. Plot me a graph to counter _that_.

~~~
mynegation
Right, so I do not know about California, but in Canada if at stop sign the
back of your car did not have a chance to come full way down on suspension,
the stop is not considered to be performed properly. His charts assume
instantaneous change in acceleration let alone any "settle down" period.

------
ww520
I had a similar story. I once sped through a traffic intersection and a cop
car coming from the other way perpendicular to my heading. He turned
immediately and chased me down. After stopping, he ordered me out and said I
was doing 110mph. I was like there's no fucking way I was doing 110. The car
felt very different going 110 than 60. He was saying I looked like going very
fast. The only thing that ran through my mind was to get a lawyer. Amazingly
he left me go after lectured me for a while. I guessed he wasn't sure exactly
how fast I went.

I was wondering how can he misjudge the speed so far apart. This article
explained the phonomena.

------
codezero
Gets more love when it's a churched up article than when you just post
directly to the PDF :(

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3830019>

~~~
m_for_monkey
I give you a point, because that's what you really want, not "love" for the
paper, right?

~~~
codezero
yes, of course.

------
throwaway1979
I have a question about avg ticket costs. My first (and so far, only) ticket
was in LA for crossing a solid HOV line. The ticket itself was 80-100.
However, they added a ton of fees to it (the best one I remember was a fee for
courthouse improvement but there were fees by the county of LA and the city of
LA). All-in-all, the grand total was around 400. Is this just a California
thing? I don't see how people can eat in that state when a ticket costs this
much.

------
michaelcampbell
A buddy of mine tried the same thing (math in court) using the weight of his
SUV, the HP of the engine, and other things to show he couldn't have been
speeding at the location the officer said he was.

Result: "Too bad. Pay me."

Like they say in the movies; with law it's what is the truth, and what you can
prove. He failed the latter and got a hefty fine.

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gwern
> "A way to fight your traffic tickets. The paper was awarded a special prize
> of $400 that the author did not have to pay to the state of California."

Good economics reasoning too - losing a loss is as good as gaining a gain.

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nmridul
Why is it that most comments here are about ways to fool a policeman and avoid
a speeding ticket ? I was expecting more advices on reducing your speed and
driving safely.

------
whackberry
It is amazing that a judge would even listen to this in a non-criminal and
minor offense case. Most places I know it'd just be dismissed and the fine
upheld.

------
eriktrautman
His argument and charts imply a stopped duration of 0s. I was taught that a
legal stop is >= 2 seconds duration. Guilty.

------
Steko
Recreation of the courtroom, from my brain:

Physicist: "Pretty much cold feet and sneezes your honor, QED."

Judge: "Well seeing as how you're a member of the affluent class I shall not
inconvenience you further."

