
A visit with Apple’s chief chipmaker - acdanger
http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-johny-srouji-apple-chief-chipmaker/
======
ksk
While this is obviously a fluff piece, its interesting to note that, what
started as a management fuck-up - how the iPad Pro schedule was mismanaged -
ended up with the management pushing the engineers to work harder while the
reward went to the people responsible for the mess in the first place.

Choice quotes

"Apple had a problem". The blame always seems to be shared. How about - The
management fucked up the release schedule.

"That gave most of Apple’s engineers more time."

"It gave a little-known executive named Johny Srouji much less."

So this makes it seem like it was harder on the executive than the people
doing the actual work.

~~~
BinaryIdiot
> ended up with the management pushing the engineers to work harder while the
> reward went to the people responsible for the mess in the first place.

Unfortunately this is how it almost always works in business. I'll never
forget the times I've worked harder to make a newly created deadline only for
the management to gain a reward and nothing for me. Who cares I worked until
2am every day for weeks while they left at 5pm because they "weren't coders".

I'm sure most in the tech industry goes through this and it's not healthy.
Yeah yeah I know you're salaried so you shouldn't expect more but when
management gains more because they imposed new deadlines for you to hit, it
creates resentment among the developers and eventually an exodus.

I've seen it happen 3 times so far in my career. You'd think I'd learn my
lesson but it's hard finding a place that actually rewards both employees and
management (or rewards none of them which would be more fair in someways and
worse in others considering only the top executives benefit at that point).

Sorry, ranting a bit.

~~~
floppydisk
It's unfortunately common that once you're salaried, your compensation is
capped at $X/yr for 40hr/week of work but it's reasonable for managers to
demand extra hours above the 40 without increasing compensation accordingly.
Rereading my last employment contract, the stipulation was I was paid assuming
40hrs/week, but the office expectation was 40 was a floor. 50-60 was more the
norm. The whole salary exempt from overtime thing gets to be annoying quick.

Part of me thinks I should start invoicing employers for time spent at work
over the 40hrs, charging an overtime rate, or something to increase
compensation in exchange for the lost time, or modifying the contract
accordingly if there's not an alternate compensation mechanism like comp time
offered. The one employer I've worked at who was good about this let you
disappear from the office if you hit your 80hrs for a 2wk pay period.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
You could keep careful notes of hours worked that way come raise time, you can
use it to negotiate a raise commensurate to the number of hours worked.

~~~
Phlarp
Good luck getting anywhere on this front with without both working in an in
demand field and having a competing offer in hand when you ask for (demand) a
raise.

------
Aissen
Regarding Apple's SoC bet, this is just crazy. In tech, this type of long-term
strategy is unheard of. Who can bet what will still be here in three years ?
five years ? 8 years is a long, long time. And they consistently made correct
choices: be the first on ARMv7(then with samsung's chip), on ARMv8 (nobody
belived in ARM 64 bits then), be the first to bet on powerful GPUs (and the
crazy impact it has on the whole SoC).

I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now, and I'm
quite (half)surprised they haven't released anything yet: one does not simply
acquire the 30-year expertise of Imagination in such a short timespan.

NVIDIA tried going in the mobile SoC business, and after 5 generations and
billions burned they finally gave up. What Apple did (and keeps doing, by
putting Samsung, Qualcomm to shame[1]), is mind boggling. They are even
approaching Intel's perf-per-watt[2] ratio.

[1] [http://anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-
iphon...](http://anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-
iphone-6s-plus-review/6)

[2]: [http://anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-
review/4](http://anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/4)

~~~
petra
It's easy to mistake causation with regard to Apple's decisions. Did 64-bit
became popular because it was better ? Or did 64-bit became popular because
Apple chose it and it became a marketing term ?

>> be the first to bet on powerful GPUs

Sure they are the first to bet on expensive stuff - they have the most margin
and sales, a more profitable ecosystem - so it's easier to justify the risk of
more complex coding(by an app developer), etc.

>> I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now

From what i hear, they use the best of Imagination , while locking it out of
the industry. But i would be happy to learn otherwise.

And i'm not saying Apple didn't create an impressive chip, but creating
impressive chips is much easier than sustaining a good business for them.

Also ,the real power of the chip is for marketing - one critical tool in
building luxury brands is a story about unique creation ,creating stuff that
nobody else can do ,etc. So that's a very valuable story.

~~~
monocasa
They have a ~10% stake in Imagination. That's pretty close to a controlling
amount for practical purposes for a publicly traded company.

~~~
Aissen
Yes, and they don't need a stake in the company, as long as they are
responsible for more than 10% of the revenue of the company, they basically
have a say in the roadmap.

If they ever chose to release their own GPU, they'll be sure to sell their
stock on the same day the device using it is released.

------
protomyth
"Srouji was nicely rewarded for his efforts. In December he became the newest
member of Cook’s management team and received about 90,000 additional shares
of Apple stock, which vest over a four-year period."

Wonder what his team got that pulled of the needed engineering 6 months early?
I'm sure they missed a lot of family life.

~~~
gsibble
I hear all too frequently that the rank and file engineers at Apple are not
compensated too well.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
Likely the only thing is that they can put on their resume that they found a
way to cut 6 months off the development time of the iPad Pro.

------
weinzierl
“When designers say, ‘This is hard,’ ” he says, “my rule of thumb is if it’s
not gated by physics, that means it’s hard but doable.”

What a wonderful statement. I like this spirit, especially that he only
mentions physics, not money.

~~~
hammock
Yes, in today's world where capital is free (ZIRP), large corporations like
Apple, which also has $200 billion in cash on hand, have infinite runway to
develop expensive products that solve hard problems. For better or for worse.

~~~
fiatmoney
ZIRP != "free capital". Debt still has to be amortized & secured, and
eventually your bankers or cashflow will cut you off, which means there is
still opportunity cost.

~~~
hammock
As mentioned Apple has $200 billion in cash reserves. I'd say that is pretty
solid collateral

------
HillaryBriss
"His father had an unusual philosophy: He would undercharge customers for
complicated work while overcharging for easier jobs." \-- Maybe this also
applies to freelance coding.

“Hard is good. Easy is a waste of time.” -- If I had the motivation and guts,
I'd put this on my coffee cup. But I'm sure it would make me a magnet for
abuse.

~~~
snowwrestler
I have known a freelancer who sort of did this, by preferring projects that
required them to extend their skills, but not charging the client for the time
they take to learn the new skills (i.e. before they start working on the
actual deliverable).

The result was a lower average hourly rate to them, but it helped them stay up
to date--and in some cases on the cutting edge. Why? Because it's easier to
learn a new technology when there is a real project at stake. The deadline and
accountability provides strong motivation, and there are real problems that
need to be solved along the way--not just self-directed exercises.

I'm not a freelancer but I can see the long-term advantage of that approach.
If you're one of just a few people who can do the cool new thing, then you can
charge higher margins on easier projects, because you have less competition
for the jobs.

Personally, I have never learned as much as when I am working a real project
(i.e. paid, deliverable) that is a bit outside my current comfort zone.

------
minikites
“I truly believe that engineers will do their best when they are constrained
by either money, tools, or resources. If you become sloppy because you have
too much money, that’s the wrong mindset.”

A very perceptive mindset, in my opinion.

------
nicolast
(referring to move from 32bit to 64bit): "The new technology allowed for
entirely new features, such as Apple Pay and the Touch ID fingerprint scanner.
Developers had to rewrite applications to account for the new standard, but it
gave way to smoother maps, cooler video games, and generally more responsive
apps that don’t hog as much memory." Right.

~~~
strmpnk
The memory comment certainly raises questions.

Tagging pointers on 64bit ARM does allow some new techniques for compactness
but it'd be hard to claim this overcomes the doubled pointer size. Does anyone
have data on how memory use was impacted between architectures for the same
code base? I recall the Objective-C runtime taking advantage of this so
perhaps it's only a slight tax if you rely Apple's frameworks.

~~~
jakobegger
Even bigger than tagged pointers is the inline retain count in the 64bit ARM
runtime. This makes retain/release much faster... No more global locks and
hash tables.

~~~
blkhp19
That's awesome. Any additional info on this topic?

~~~
esmi
[https://www.mikeash.com/pyblog/friday-
qa-2013-09-27-arm64-an...](https://www.mikeash.com/pyblog/friday-
qa-2013-09-27-arm64-and-you.html)

------
amelius
> “The only way for Apple to really differentiate and deliver something truly
> unique and truly great, you have to own your own silicon”

Why is that so? For ages we have relied on Intel and AMD, and that worked
pretty well.

~~~
frandroid
PC manufacturers are in the toilet with razor thin margins because they all
ostensibly deliver the same thing. Profit is where "unique" is, which is a
monopoly on feature or integration X.

------
ksec
Just wondering, are those special Mac Mini Builds, Custom WiFi integration
hints of something to come?

------
vedaprodarte
“Steve came to the conclusion that the only way for Apple to really
differentiate and deliver something truly unique and truly great, you have to
own your own silicon,” Srouji says. “You have to control and own it.”

This words are very encouraging for entrepreneurs. No matter you like Apple or
not, this philosophy made Apple succeed.

~~~
sangnoir
> This words are very encouraging for entrepreneurs.

Sounds like an non-sequitur to me: what's the link between Apple and
entrepreneurs, and why should they be encouraged? Shouldn't they be encouraged
by commoditization of silicon instead? >90% of kickstarted/'maker' projects
would vanish if step 1 were "have your own silicon"

------
cherry_su
I can imagine that part of his team's excellence and efficiency is due to not
focusing on differences not directly relevant to technical problems:

Although Israel grapples with Jewish-Arab tensions all the time, none of it
mattered in Srouji’s world. Cohn, who remains friends with him, says their
different backgrounds never came up. “Technical people treat technical people
based on personality and technical ability,” he says. “You don’t think about
it. You just work together. The rest goes away.”

~~~
golergka
That's more or less the norm for secular israelis, regardless of ethnicity.

~~~
Cyph0n
I'm sure they treat their fellow Palestinian Muslims well.

~~~
golergka
Far better than almost any other nations in a state of war, actually. Civilian
to combatant death ratio was about 1:1 in the latest 2014 war, 4 times better
than the usual modern wars involving first-world nations.

~~~
Cyph0n
What a war it was indeed. Aerial bombardment of a walled city. A rocket
launched from Gaza injures a few people in Israel; a bomb (no need to mention
phosphorous _wink wink_ ) dropped from a state-of-the-art fighter jet destroys
an entire city block.

And when Israel finally decided that it was time for the "mighty" IDF ground
forces to enter the stage... nothing really happened. The rockets just
continued to be launched from Gaza for a whole month. It was a really amusing
"war" to watch in my opinion :D

~~~
golergka
Well, if you have an opinion on what IDF could do differently to lower the
amount of civilian casualties, I'm all ears.

~~~
Cyph0n
I'm no military expert, so I don't have one. Scratch that, I do. Allow aid to
reach the million or so civilians in Gaza instead of choking it from all
sides.

What I do know is that Israel was forced to agree on a ceasefire with a a
bunch of "terrorists". Quite hilarious.

~~~
golergka
Aid is reaching them everyday, both from Israel and Egypt checkpoints. They're
also trading with both countries quite a lot. You don't think that this
"siege" word actually means a blockade, do you?

The only thing that is required to be smuggled are rockets.

~~~
Cyph0n
Really now. Please don't speak about issues you have no clue about. According
to the Jerusalem Post, "Egyptian authorities have kept the border crossing
almost totally closed" since mid-2013 [1]. Now, if Egypt's crossing is closed,
do you think Israel would keep theirs open? Hmm. Read [2] for more juicy
details.

Conclusion: Gaza is completely isolated from the outside world. 1 million+
citizens in a confined space. Long live Israel.

[1]: [http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Rafah-crossing-between-
Eg...](http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Rafah-crossing-between-Egypt-and-
Gaza-closed-again-445073)

[2]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_barrier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_barrier)

~~~
golergka
Here's the data, please:

[http://gisha.org/graph/2387](http://gisha.org/graph/2387)

"Completely isolated from the outside world"? Not even close. 3000 truckloads
a week. And growing.

> Now, if Egypt's crossing is closed, do you think Israel would keep theirs
> open? Hmm.

You seem to imply something here; as if Egypt-Gaza relations should be
expected to better than Israel-Gaza. Why?

> 1 million+ citizens in a confined space.

Yeah, this is called a "country". Exactly what Hamas is, if you believe it,
wants. And this "barrier" would be called a "border" then. You know, like
countries have.

~~~
Cyph0n
Yes, I and my fellow Muslims and Arabs all expect that Egypt helps its fellow
humans in Gaza. We expect much less from Israel, given that it is the one who
built the wall in the first place.

I apologize. You are right, Israel seems to at least let some aid through.

A country border? What kind of country lets another state build a huge wall
around it and doesn't have control of the crossing points? I'm sorry but
you're spewing nonsense.

------
bydo
Despite the linkbait-y You-Won't-BELIEVE-What-Happens-Next title (spoilers:
the executive is SVP of Hardware Technologies Johny Srouji, in charge of
microprocessor design), an interesting article.

I worry that Bloomberg isn't sure if it wants its website to be Buzzfeed or
the Atlantic.

~~~
Nanite
that and fluff piece tone is rather annoying. I'm sure Johny Srouij is a
highly competent Apple SVP considering their standards. But correct me if I'm
wrong, as far as I know Apple's custom SoC's are still mostly a collection of
licenced ARM IP blocks contracted out to either either TSMC or Samsung. Credit
when credit's due, but the author goes a bit overboard, in praise.

~~~
kccqzy
Have you noticed the fact that no other Samsung chip has reached the single
thread performance of the A7 in iPhone 5s? The architecture may be licensed
but the chip design is not.

~~~
macintux
I was quite surprised by the analyst's assertion that Samsung has the lead.
Certainly on manufacturing (especially since Apple doesn't actually
manufacture them) but their chips in general?

~~~
esmi
He didn't define his criteria for "best". If it's $/core, for example, then
Samsung probably is better. But I doubt Apple cares about that particular
metric.

------
boxfire
And with this I am thoroughly convinced Hacker News is Slashdot with
significantly fewer of the troll comments. This is obviously pure marketing.
Congrats to Apple, I am sure this does in fact win them both sales and talent.

