
The prisoners trying to code their way to a better life - hachiya
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31359126
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felon_developer
I'm self taught, and had 2-3 years of a career before being incarcerated. I
was incarcerated for 6 years. During that time, I had a few books. Other than
a couple of basic computer courses, no access to computers. Just did my best
to keep my mind in it.

EDIT: I guess a new account can't comment more than once (makes sense) so I'd
like to address the background check issue: I've had numerous jobs, where I
disclosed honestly. My felony was a _very_ serious one.

Now I'm quite successful (making well over market; a regular poster on HN;
throwaway account is obvious). I recently hired a released inmate who I knew
could code though he hadn't ever really done it (he showed me some code he
wrote down in TI-BASIC). This guy was locked up 15 years, but within a few
months, he's learning as fast or faster than any random person.

~~~
jackmaney
Honest question: why were you hired?

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thefreeman
I actually think this is a great idea. While it is true they likely wouldn't
be able to find a job in the industry with this training, I am sure some of
them will come out with enough skill to do things like bid on freelance
projects on elance.com.

It really doesn't take a lot of projects to make equivalent and greater money
then the type of minimum wage or manual labor jobs many ex-cons would end up
working instead (or even petty crime).

~~~
nailer
I think it's a great idea too. If the programme was good enough, they might be
able to find jobs in the industry. Consider if:

\- They have 10,000 hours experience

\- They have StackOverflow and Kahn Academy and MIT access

\- They speak English as a first language (likely in the US)

I'd pay someone like that.

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zkhalique
Well, finally. I mean, prisoners are kept without computers in their jail
cells usually, bored out of their minds. Instead, they could be reformed by
giving them useful work!

~~~
AustinG08
My brother is in prison until 2018 on drug related charges. He was transferred
to a for profit prison that has a reputation for gang violence, but
fortunately all the non violent offenders from the state he was transferred
from are kept in a separate wing. He has an Xbox One and gets to play games
all day. He also reads a lot and works out. He works 40 hours a week and that
pays him about $9/wk. They won't let them have computers, let alone internet
access. I wish they would. It's strange what they can and can't have. They can
buy a Nintendo 3DS but can't buy any games for it. I wonder who came up with
that one.

~~~
zkhalique
It's truly ridiculous. Finland has much less recidivism:
[http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why...](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-
scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/)

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mijoharas
Wow, learning to code without being able to refer to stackoverflow or anything
on the internet... does that count as cruel and unusual punishment?

~~~
barrkel
It's how I learned to code. You depend on good documentation much more -
though offline documentation used to be better, these days you're lucky if you
get more than the source.

It also makes you more independent when debugging issues no-one else online
has seen. You become unafraid of digging into the next level down to find out
what's going on.

~~~
davycro
Same. I learned from library books w/o Internet.

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FamousShoes
If anyone has information on how to help with or reach out to this or similar
programs, please post what you've got!

[Edit] Here's an article with more comprehensive information, including the
program's origins and the organizations behind it:
[http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/how-18-inmates-
at...](http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/how-18-inmates-at-
californias-notorious-san-quentin-prison-learn-to-code/)

------
jkot
> San Quentin state prison in California has begun a ground-breaking programme
> to teach prisoners how to code.

What is so ground-breaking on that? Any normal country will some sort of
education to their prisoners.

~~~
jrochkind1
In most U.S. prisons, prisoners are denied access to computers at all, and
especially to the internet, as a general principle.

As of a couple years ago, there is a program that offers monitored email to
some prisoners in U.S. prisons. Email only.

Not only are there no educational programs involving computers, but prisoners
are specifically disallowed from using computers for purposes like learning to
code.

Now, I'm not saying the U.S. is a "normal country".

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bitslayer
This is great, but there is a much greater need, simple literacy.
[http://www.invisiblechildren.org/2010/11/18/75-of-inmates-
ar...](http://www.invisiblechildren.org/2010/11/18/75-of-inmates-are-
illiterate-19-are-completely-illiterate-ruben-rosario/#sthash.lbNiWXt6.dpbs)

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ljd
There is one path for HackReactor to make money on this, they can act as
recruiters between prisoners and companies.

I know as an employer of developers, that I would hire someone with a felony
because I know their introductory salary will be lower but their skill set
should be the same. Which may sound over opportunistic, but it's just
economics, fewer offers mean lower initial pay. The downside is if they become
excellent developers it'll be hard to keep them at the lower salary, even if
they do have a felony.

~~~
mgadams3
Probably true, but I don't think the motivation on this is for Hack Reactor to
make money... there would be much easier ways to make money that don't involve
prisoners if that's what they were after.

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gambiting
Except that - if I understand how US justice system works correctly - they
won't be hired by anyone because they have a sentence in their books. Which is
awful.

~~~
Sirenos
Are you talking about the social stigma or is there something in the law that
makes it difficult for ex-convicts to find jobs?

~~~
thefreeman
Felons are required to disclose on their job applications that they have a
prior felony, and what it was they did. This has the effect of making it
_extremely_ difficult for them to find work, especially in white collar
industries.

Edit: Apparently I am wrong, they aren't technically required to disclose it.
However, in practice, every job application I have ever seen has had the
question.

~~~
swatow
That is incorrect. There is nothing in the law requiring felons to disclose
this. Some employers might ask, and perform their own background checks based
on public information.

~~~
mason240
In fact it's actually illegal in several states (MN is one) to ask about it on
job applications.

~~~
jpetersonmn
I'm from MN and every job application I've ever filled out in my life asked if
I was a convicted felon. Including the job I'm at now.

~~~
mason240
It is a new law that just passed last year, and I'm not sure if it has taken
effect yet.

~~~
jpetersonmn
I just read up on that, and looks like they did just pass a law that they
can't ask you on the initial application, but then can weed you out later. IMO
that's a horrible law that will end up costing businesses a lot of money, and
not help felons get a job at all. If I run a business and I have a policy of
not hiring felons, I should be able to weed them out in the initial
application phase.

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sethrin
I had the idea of wanting to teach programming in a prison, but it seemed to
have the same requirements as teaching anywhere else: a degree, preferably in
education, preferably a master's. I'm self taught and don't have a degree, so
it sounds like it's not really an option for me. Does anyone have more
information about how one would go about doing this, perhaps on a volunteer
basis?

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fifthesteight
one of the best programmers i've ever worked with spent his time teaching
himself php. he was a bright kid who made a stupid decision, but didnt let
that stop him. we worked together for about 2 years and he ended up getting a
couple great offers and now balls way, way harder than me. i have so much
respect for him.

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mariusz79
Maybe The Mafia, or some other criminal organization could sponsor this
training. This way they could create a nice, steady pool of applicants for the
White Collar Crime Division :)

