
New York’s Subway Frequency Guidelines Are the Wrong Approach - another
https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2015/12/13/new-yorks-subway-frequency-guidelines-are-the-wrong-approach/
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jrockway
I don't think the MTA is aiming for optimal scheduling. Peak demand depends on
two things: the number of trainsets available, and the track capacity. I
recently read their in-depth analysis of the A/C lines. A/C capacity is
strictly limited by the interlocking between Hoyt-Schermerhorn and Jay St -
Metrotech. It can handle 28 trains per hour if everything runs perfectly, and
they have approximately that many scheduled. Similarly, people complain about
the C being 8 cars instead of 10 (actually 480' vs. 600'). Unfortunately, the
MTA doesn't own enough railcars to be able to run the C with 10 cars.

Off-peak service is a disaster and the only thing that explains their
scheduling is that they can't afford to pay the conductors and train
operators. Their guidelines are definitely shaped by "how can we keep the
system running with the atrociously-limited amount of money we get from the
state", rather than "there's no possible way to run 28 trains per hour 24/7".

Waiting 20 minutes for a train is still better than systems that shut down at
11pm and reopen at 6am, though.

Edit: here's the analysis that explains all of this better than I can:
[http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/AC_LineReview.pdf](http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/AC_LineReview.pdf)

Great document.

~~~
yummyfajitas
The problem isn't money in - it's the high costs that the MTA inflicts on
itself.

In terms of cost, consider construction. Cities like Singapore, Hong Kong,
Delhi, Dubai and Budapest build subways at $100-500M/km. In NYC the cost is
$2,000M/km.

[https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comp...](https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/comparative-
subway-construction-costs-revised/)

I'll talk a bit about the Delhi metro since my wallet currently contains a NYC
metro card and a Delhi travel card. The Delhi metro cost 10,800 crore for
phase 1 and 19,131 crore for phase 2. That's about $5 billion.

[http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/delhi-to-recover-
entir...](http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/delhi-to-recover-entire-cost-
of-metro-phase1-by-2011/525800/)

[http://www.delhimetrorail.com/projectsupdate/project_cost.as...](http://www.delhimetrorail.com/projectsupdate/project_cost.aspx)

Here is a time lapse of the Delhi metro being built:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delhi_Metro#/media/File:Delhi_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delhi_Metro#/media/File:Delhi_Metro_Evo.gif)

For approximately $5 billion, Delhi got 132 miles of track (mixed subway, at-
grade and elevated) and 160 stations.

In NYC, we spent $2.4 billion on the 7 line extension. We got 1 mile of subway
and 1 station.

The MTA wastes virtually every dollar we give them. Giving them more money is
not the solution; putting them in jail and paying Singapore to administer our
transit is.

~~~
AndyMcConachie
You must realize this is an apples/oranges comparison. The cost of labour
alone is vastly different between NYC and Delhi.

~~~
yummyfajitas
If you scroll up, you'll see a less detailed comparison to Singapore, Hong
Kong and Hungary. The former two are about as wealthy as the US, so if we pay
more for labor that's only because the MTA wastefully funnels money to it's
workers.

I discussed Delhi mainly because I know it well.

That said, if we can hire Indian workers and have them build our subways at
lower cost, we should absolutely do this. I'm sure this helped keep Dubai's
cost down. Then again, it doesn't seem necessary; Barcelona built a subway at
$39M/km.

~~~
maxander
Its not news that labor is much cheaper in many countries than the US, but I
think people are going to get pretty mad if you call paying transit workers a
decent professional wage[1] "wastefully funneling money." There are good
reasons we don't outsource all our work to less-well-off regions with lower
costs- and standards-of-living.

[1] [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/New-York-City-Transit-
Autho...](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/New-York-City-Transit-Authority-
Salaries-E18719.htm)

~~~
yummyfajitas
I'm sure the transit worker making $50k/year to sit in a booth and say "go use
the metrocard machine" will get mad if I suggest firing her. That doesn't mean
it wouldn't be the right thing to do for the taxpayer and the MTA customer.

I'm also pretty sure you are deliberately misreading me since you ignored the
fact that I cited several countries where wage levels are comparable to the US
(e.g., Singapore). Singapore's just uses "modern" technology and replaces two
$75k/year conductors and a $150k/year driver with a robot train.

("Modern" = technology that Paris has used in production for 18 years.)

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jib
Synchronised frequencies sounds bad. You want non-synchronised to avoid
amplification and ensure error correction, surely?

If you have just one temporary bottle neck screwing up the relative distance,
causing a capacity shortage down the line you will have that pattern repeating
if things are synced, whereas if they aren't, you will error correct
naturally.

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jph
Terrific analysis. What is interesting to me is all of the items could be
explained by a single factor: distributed planning architecture, such as a
planning system that calculates each line frequency independently. Essentially
each train is its own functional agent.

This could cause the kind of data in the article, while also having a
legitimate reason for use. Independent units can be better for fault
tolerance, emergency recovery, and streamlined risk management, if anything
goes awry.

