
Home - Chrome OS - bound008
http://www.google.com/chromeos/
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erikpukinskis
"Nothing but the web"?

 _"Nothing but the web"_??

How can you be so tantalizingly close to such a glorious tagline as " _Nothing
but net_ " and not use it?

AAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

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krevis
I saw "Nothing but net" used as a slogan for a dialup Internet product in
_1995_. It was a little too precious, even fifteen years ago.

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pjscott
That's even worse than the AOL demo CDs I got which said, in enormous letters,
"56K TURBO!"

Has our collective taste improved since then? It often seems that way.

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callahad
Wow, the pilot program applications are significantly different depending on
where you're coming from.

This is the form linked from the above site:
<https://services.google.com/fb/forms/cr48advanced/>

And the form linked from within Chrome's new tab page:
<https://services.google.com/fb/forms/cr48basic/>

Edit: Also amusing, one of the options for "Which program do you use to listen
to music most often?" is "Dude with a guitar on the corner."

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cryptoz
I think they may have messed up a bit on the pilot application; I applied
using the long form, but it forced me into choosing a State (list of 50 USA
states) even though I selected my country to Canada. I understand that they
only want US residents right now (Verizon-tied), but as a web form it doesn't
make any sense.

We'll see what happens. :)

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gavingmiller
I thought the same thing - and then read the fine print:

> I understand that Google will only ship the device to a US-based address and
> cannot send this device to a P.O. Box or address outside of the US.

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zmmmmm
The most interesting page to me is this one:

[http://www.google.com/chromeos/pilot-program-
forbusiness.htm...](http://www.google.com/chromeos/pilot-program-
forbusiness.html)

I think Google is far more ambitious in the business space than most people
realize. They are aiming directly at Microsoft's empire. Consider the amazing
TCO for a business that deploys only Google Apps and ChromeOS notebooks to its
employees. Obviously, Google Apps are not quite good enough yet, but Google
knows this is a long term project. The apps are constantly improving and at
the same time people are steadily migrating to the web for many of their
workflows anyway. At some point it'll get really hard to justify spending
$1-2k up front plus IT overheads per employee when you could get it for
virtually nothing with a ChromeOS notebook.

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technomancy
Irony: clicking on the "Chromium and Open Source" link gives you a "you must
upgrade your Adobe Flash plugin" message.

Oops.

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jrockway
I really want to try one of these, but I can't lie to Google. I don't use the
Web for anything. I listen to music with xmms2 on the command-line. I write in
Emacs. I read my email in Emacs. I download TV shows from Usenet.

I realized that Emacs is the Chrome OS, except with 25 years of libraries and
applications to show for it.

~~~
Semiapies
For someone with 23544 karma, I think you use the web quite a bit, even if
it's from within Emacs.

~~~
jrockway
No, it means I submit comments to Hacker News :)

I use the web for visiting websites, but that's only a very small part of my
day. Most everything I do for fun or socialization or for creative purposes I
do without the web. I may publish my stuff to the web, but it's a _medium_ ,
not a _tool_. A painter wouldn't say he spends a lot of time working with
magazines, even if most people know his paintings from one.

Anyway, I'm not criticizing the idea of Chrome OS. Like I said, Chrome is
basically a pretty Emacs, which is a great environment. But it won't work for
me today.

(Would I buy a Chrome OS _tablet_ , just for reading random crap on the web?
You bet! But I wouldn't commit to using one as my primary computer, because I
wouldn't be able to do anything I want to do.)

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Sephr
That was a great idea to put a "search" key in place of a caps lock key. I
search all the time, and haven't (intentionally) used caps lock once my entire
life.

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joelburget
How do you type acronyms like NASA?

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cryptoz
It's faster to hold shift. Caps Lock + n + a + s + a + Caps Lock is 6 keys, vs
Shift + n + a + s + a is only 5 keys.

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joelburget
But I use both fingers for the letters in NASA so I would normally have to
hold 2 different shift keys. Are you saying you hold just one shift and type
the rest of the letters with your other hand

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btmorex
Hold left shift with left pinky. Type n-a-s-a with both hands. I honestly have
no idea how else you would do it. Hitting caps lock seems like such a waste of
time.

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joelburget
How is it a waste of time when caps lock is as close to my little finger as
shift is and I can type normally for those few letters?

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jules
Because you have to press it twice. I tried both and shift was definitely
easier.

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wippler
I have no idea whats the big deal about Chrome OS. Didn't a lot of OEM's
already have this kind of functionality?

Atleast my 1.5 yr old Sony VAIO has a Web button, which boots the system to
slightly stripped down version of Firefox without booting OS. Its also very
fast, boots in 10-20 seconds and runs flash content too.

~~~
27182818284
There is business strategy involved as well. Google wants to reduce its
dependency on Apple and Microsoft. Unless you were a GNU+Linux/BSD enthusiast,
you were accessing their products from a laptop running the software of one
their competitors. Similarly, this is one of the reasons for Android. They
could have just made apps for the iPhone, Windows phone, RIM, etc, but they
made apps for the iPhone and Android to help reduce the dependency and give
themselves more freedom

~~~
burningion
.. then why didn't they give us a free OS X instead of a locked down platform?

~~~
27182818284
...because that would still tie them to Apple.

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iamelgringo
I run Windows 7 Ultimate on a $219 Aspire One that I added a decent 60GB SSD
to ($100) and an extra 9 cell battery $59. Between both batteries, I have
enough charge to last my from Barcelona to San Francisco with a 4 hour layover
at JFK. And, I have a full web experience, any files I need are perfectly
synced without any hassle via Dropbox. And, I can use most any desktop
software I like.

3G service from most any carrier that I've tried is barely adequate for
surfing the web on my Android cell phone. I would hate to have to rely on 3G
service for all external storage for my computer.

I don't see how eliminating local storage on my computer and putting all my
data on Google's servers is better than having access to that data locally.
Random access to an SSD is 10^(3-4) ns, a random seek on disks with spindles
is 10^(6-7)ns and a packet sent round trip across the country is 10^(8-9)ns.

I can buy a 16GB flash drive at Frys for $15. When local storage is so
ubiquitous and cheap, I don't understand why would you want to develop an OS
that relied on packet transfer for permanent storage rather than local storage
with delayed synchronization.

It's not like having local permanent storage is much of a hindrance. I've
never said, "Damn, if I could only get rid of 60GB of local storage on my
computer, every thing would be great". I do find myself cursing my lack of
network coverage on a regular basis, however.

I suppose that it makes sense if you are Google and you want as much of
people's data on your servers so you can money by mining that data. Aside from
that, I just don't get it.

~~~
Tichy
Doesn't it have an offline mode? I'd expect there tobe one, with syncing to
the cloud behind the scenes.

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tamersalama
_It runs web-based applications, not legacy PC software_

When did PC software become legacy?

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archangel_one
My experience is that "legacy" refers to "any software that we want to put
down or don't want to support 100% any more", so I guess Google decided all
native software was legacy the minute they announced Chrome OS.

I've seen the same thing happen with code internally - a developer writes an
untested replacement for a component and then instantly declares the old
version "legacy", even though it still works fine.

~~~
wmf
It could be worse...

"Netscape will soon reduce Windows to a poorly debugged set of device
drivers." — Marc Andreessen (1995)

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quag
What a poor survey. These notes are about the Developer version.

The final question is, "If selected, will you use this Chrome notebook as your
primary computer and provide regular feedback?" This should have been the
first question so people didn't have to waste their time filling out the
survey if they won't use the machine as their #1 machine.

How many developers would use a Chrome OS netbook as their primary computer? A
secondary computer (think tablet) sure, but for doing their day-to-day coding?

I've used a tiny Viao (pre-netbook era) as a main (home) development machine,
but that had a full Linux OS and was unusual.

Other issues:

\- Have to provide a US state even for people outside of the US

\- Item labeled "Primary Email" with a note, "If you have a Gmail address,
please supply that."

\- Can only answer once to, "Which OS do you use most of the time?" (How about
people who use two OSes equally?)

\- Similar problem for, "Which web browser do you use most of the time?".
(Different browsers on different computers? Using multiple main browers at the
same time?)

\- "What type of device do you use most frequently?" Again, only one answer.
(I use laptop, desktop and ipad extensively)

\- "How do you check your email most often?" single option. (How about people
who, you know, check both work and personal email?)

\- "Which apps or tools do you use at least once a week?". It names specific
applications. Hard to tell if "Adobe Reader" is meant as a proxy for "PDF
Viewer" or not.

\- "How do you connect to the Internet most often?" only a single answer...

\- (snip: other questions with only single answers that should allow multiple)

~~~
krainboltgreene
> How many developers would use a Chrome OS netbook as their primary computer?

Boom, right here. That said, they might send you one even if you don't use it
as the #1.

Also, I think your form was borked. There were several things you encountered
that I didn't.

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Maro
So... Google has two OSes now, Android and ChromeOS. One is for mobiles and
pads, one is for.. what?

~~~
cryptoz
Computers. You know, the ones with keyboards and mice.

~~~
jsz0
That's the part that confuses me. Computers are traditionally more powerful
and flexible than SmartPhones / tablets but a computer running ChromeOS is
actually more limited than an iOS or Android device at this point.

~~~
NZ_Matt
Most computer users are not powerusers and they don't need a powerful PC or
OS. Current operating systems are over complicated for casual users and
limitations work as an advantage for people like my parents. They shouldn't
need to understand what a file system is, everything should just work in the
background.

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injekt
"Waitlessness means never having to wait for the the web. "

Seriously, Google?

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moskie
So is there any concept of "files" and/or "folders" on the hard drive of these
computers? If so, is there a file explorer app to manage them? Or is it black-
boxed, like an iP(hone|ad|od)?

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robinduckett
The Pilot program is open to individuals, businesses, schools, non-profits and
developers based in the United States.

Sad faces for people in the UK.

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richcollins
OT but nice minimalist design.

~~~
ez77
Excuse me, but what is OT?

~~~
xxpor
Off topic

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joshrule
Chrome OS is just another step in the division of labor. Instead of managing
our data ourselves, it pushes us even further than most other products so far
to let others take care of it for us. It'll be there when we want it, and
probably better organized, too.

And, for a lot of people, security is a concern, but in the background. A fly
buzzing by the screen door, but not something that would keep them from taking
an easy option from a company that 'knows the answer to everything'.

So, for most people, what's not to like?

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kissickas
Anyone know why they switched the shortcut for "view shortcuts" from the
Gmail/ Google Reader "?" button (shift+/) to "Ctrl+Alt+/"? Seems strange to
me, as "?" makes intuitive sense and adding a modifier key (like ctrl) would
be sufficient to distinguish between shortcuts in Gmail and those in the OS.

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jlees
Ctrl-? opens the help application. We had to add another modifier for the
shortcuts.

~~~
kissickas
Makes sense. Thanks.

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albemuth
US only :(

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mootothemax
I've tried applying from Poland without any error messages appearing at least.

It's rather confusing though; why have a country drop-down if it's only open
to US residents?

~~~
gavingmiller
My guess is that they'll use it to gather demographics of people interested in
the device. There was a ton of information to fill in that I'm sure any
marketer would love to have.

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mike-cardwell
It just looks like a web browser. I thought Chrome OS was going to be a nice
user interface which had websites appear like native apps. Instead, it's just
a web browser. Not impressed at all. I expected more.

~~~
wtallis
Could you be a bit more specific about what you were expecting? Did you think
they could make it magically shoehorn web apps into a desktop metaphor? What
more does it need than just a web browser, given that the whole point of
Chrome OS is to be just a web browser?

~~~
qjz
It's a fair criticism. If the OS is a web browser, why use tabs? They just
steal valuable screen real estate. Replace them with a windowing system where
each page/app gets its own resizeable window, and you can reclaim some of the
virtues of a desktop metaphor.

~~~
wtallis
Are overlapping or tiled windows really that useful for web apps being
squeezed in to a low-end 12" laptop screen?

They've got a system for chat windows and notifications to show up on top of
the main window, and they've got a full-screen button to hide all the window
decorations. The only real use a more complex window manager would have is
enabling you to show two documents side by side, but I doubt that the
horizontal screen resolution is high enough for that to work with most web
apps.

~~~
mike-cardwell
I do think that overlapping and tiled windows are very useful for a 12"
screen. They're certainly highly useful and desirable on my 13" Macbook
screen.

~~~
wtallis
But how many web apps (or any web sites) are actually useful when reduced to a
width of 640px? Almost everything on the web these days is designed for a
width that's far more than half of the 1280px that is the widest reasonable
estimate for the Cr-48's screen. I've measured GMail, Picasa, and Google Docs
as needing 795px, 813px, and 889px, respectively, and Pandora with its ads
wants a window more than 1000px wide. If Google's going to show off side-by-
side multitasking on a ChromeOS notebook, they'll have to use somebody else's
web apps.

If "the cloud" starts to tread on more serious territory and people reach the
point where they're willing an able to do things on the web that they would
previously use a $1000+ computer for, then Google will have to revisit Chrome
OS's basic paradigm. But until then, the main purpose for Chrome OS is to make
a true netbook.

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MisterWebz
Looks like it's for US only, but the form allows me to change to another
country. Any idea why?

~~~
jlees
Pilot selection is US only _for now_.

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AdamGibbins
Oh wow, nice design - I hope they start selling those. Shame the pilot is US
only :-(

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nowarninglabel
>"Base Bamp"

Check, wait, no, uncheck.

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goombastic
Chrome OS: The Closing of Open.

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va_coder
Are Chrome tablets coming out?

~~~
callahad
Not in the near term. During the Q&A, several questions were asked about
tablets, including how the rise of iOS and Android tablets have affected the
team's conception of what an ideal device would look like.

In all instances, the ChromeOS team members reiterated that from the very
first day, their vision was to address the notebook form factor, because
they're attempting to build a platform that can be used as their own primary
device.

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bigwally
Free Laptop will arrive, when my free google TV arrives.

How else can you get people to fill out a survey?

