
Consciousness Is Worth Thinking About - ca98am79
http://www.kundaliniconsortium.org/2015/01/no-reallyconsciousness-is-worth.html
======
jedharris
When Gopi Krishna says of the scientist "when we ask him how did it take a
leap, he is dumb" and then references Darwin, he's revealing a lack of
understanding of the scientific process. Darwin knew he lacked a lot of
crucial knowledge -- including how heredity works. Some of the blanks have
been filled in, some have not -- or only partially. Darwin's ignorance doesn't
undercut his greatness or imply the limits of science.

There has been a lot of good scientific work done on consciousness in the last
few decades. Bernard Baars helped to make the topic respectable with _A
Cognitive Theory of Consciousness_ which is still a very good analysis of many
of the issues.

Currently I think the best theoretical grip on consciousness is summarized in
Graziano's _Consciousness and the Social Brain_, interestingly discussed at
([http://selfawarepatterns.com/2014/10/16/the-attention-
schema...](http://selfawarepatterns.com/2014/10/16/the-attention-schema-
theory-of-consciousness-deserves-your-attention/)).

These scientific approaches to understanding consciousness have the advantages
of helping us understand our subjective experience, helping us understand how
that experience maps into brain anatomy and activity, and helping us explain
why and how evolution would have produced consciousness in animals like us.
Also, these approaches don't require any new work in physics or metaphysics --
they work just fine at the level of neuroscience and cognitive science.

------
ppod
I don't understand what kind of answer is sought, and I don't understand why
there is a question. As a species, we have done well by being unusually good
at processing and communicating information. Our senses receive information
and pass it through a highly complex processing system with memory and motor
functions. When we talk about this we call it "experience", or "first person
observation". What's the problem?

It's not 'fear or the unknown', it's that I don't know what you think you
don't know. If you want to use the word 'observer', then we have a field of
study for that, it's called human biology. Or anthropology, or psychology,
neuroscience, or physics, depending on which level you're interested in
understanding.

~~~
ca98am79
From my perspective, consciousness is too profound to be simply created by
matter.

Check out this video by David Chalmers, who explains it well:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK1Yo6VbRoo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK1Yo6VbRoo)

Also there is a great book called "Biocentrism" by Robert Lanza which explains
a lot of the scientific reasons why consciousness may not come from the brain.

~~~
kevin42
I'm curious what you find profound about consciousness? There are plenty of
theories about why we have consciousness and what it is that do not require
mystic explanations. I'm sincerely curious if there are other concepts you
think are too profound to be 'created by matter'

~~~
ca98am79
to be honest I think it is more like gravity - a fundamental part of nature:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction)

It's just that consciousness is so different than anything else I have seen
created by matter - it is so profoundly different. From my experience and
point of view, I don't believe it is created by matter.

~~~
kevin42
How do you explain how our consciousness can be interrupted and/or fooled so
easily with matter? We can't change the rules of gravity or any other
fundamental force, but we can easily alter consciousness.

We can predictably alter the way someone's consciousness works with chemicals
and electric signals, so how would the rules of matter cross over to something
that doesn't follow the rules of matter?

~~~
ca98am79
Hi Kevin, it _appears_ that we alter consciousness, but are you sure? People
could be fooled into thinking they alter electricity itself by breaking a
light bulb, but it is obvious they just affect the tool that is used by
electricity. I think it is the same when we alter the brain.

Why do we all share the present moment?

Why does consciousness affect matter at the quantum level?

There are a lot of questions like this that don't have reasonable answers
until you begin to think of consciousness as a fundamental part of nature.

------
jobposter1234
The "I am disappointed in you HN" intro was offputting. Say what you're going
to say, I don't need to be shamed by the principle for it. Practically, it
also makes your article less relevant to the population as a whole, and it
will feel out of date a month after this discussion.

Regarding the content: the reason I don't find discussions about consciousness
particularly stimulating is because they feel more like philosophy than
science. The people who address it scientifically (who are named in the
article - Kurzweil, Dawkins, Munroe) - are also the ones dismissing it.

------
api
IMHO consciousness is an area where science is "chickening out."

"This is too puzzling and bizarre and possibly spooky, so let's pretend it
doesn't exist even though we are experiencing it right now..."

