
Life expectancy declines seen in U.S. and other high-income countries - spking
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-lifeexpectancy/life-expectancy-declines-seen-in-u-s-and-other-high-income-countries-idUSKCN1L723R
======
anoncoward111
I'd like to provide my anecdotal evidence from a 26 year old American white
male making $37,000 per year in NYC:

It's not income inequality that drives my depression. I'm happy as a clam at
my job and I'm able to pay my food, rent, car, and make a little savings.

It is the "bullshit" factor that comes with nearly everything in life these
days. Parking tickets, identity thieves, regulations that hurt small
businesses, crowding in cities, crazy drivers on the road, being taken to
court for nearly anything...

... everyone is out here just trying to exploit the common citizen and it
really, really needs to stop.

~~~
jackgolding
Lately I've been thinking of moving to a country town to get away from a lot
of these problems that are systematic in cities (traffic, crime, office
politics.) I don't know what its like in America, but in Australia most towns
are also expensive (people take 1+ hour commutes to the city) which creates
inequality and problems with methamphetamine.

~~~
anoncoward111
Everything is expensive and the junkies are everywhere and the town government
is inefficient and semi-corrupt and yeah it just all around sucks unless you
are a multi-millionaire and can pay your way through all of this and set up
your own private castle in the woods.

Tbh I pay like $650 to rent a room in a reasonably quiet town and I just spend
my time meditating and doing free hobbies outside of work.

The most liberated I ever felt was basically living on a mountain in Chile at
14,000 feet for a week but then you run out of food and water and the -10c
nights are pretty bone chilling and you start to wonder why you had to go to
such a remote and physically demanding place to feel unencumbered by society
for a moment

~~~
barrow-rider
> the -10c nights are pretty bone chilling and you start to wonder why you had
> to go to such a remote and physically demanding place to feel unencumbered
> by society for a moment

Because there are 8 Billion people in the world -- wrap your head around that,
seriously, like think on just how many people there are -- and understand that
there is a LOT of demand for nice places, from all over the world.

If you (the broad you, I mean) want it your way you need to climb to the top
of the heap, retreat to the fringes, or learn to live with all of the
bullshit.

------
toomanybeersies
I find it astounding that the opioid epidemic is so severe that there's a
measurable reduction in life expectancy in the USA.

Interesting that "deaths of despair" have also had a measurable impact. It
seems that since the Global Financial Crisis, we've been locked in this sort
of terminal pessimism. Hunter S. Thompson wrote back in 1971, "We are all
wired into a survival trip now". Are we locked in the same survival trip from
almost 50 years ago, or is it a cyclical thing?

Is the world really worse than the 60s? Or are we just more aware of our
helplessness?

~~~
emodendroket
Wages were rising until the 70s and they've been stagnant since then; in the
mean time college, health care, rent, houses, etc. have gotten more expensive
in real dollars. People who had well-paying jobs with strong benefits are now
often, if not unemployed, in jobs with less pay, fewer benefits, and more
precarity. In short: yes, things are worse for many of the people who are
turning to opiates.

~~~
myth_drannon
From the many statistics I saw usually the breaking point is the middle to end
of eighties. I'm thinking the fall of Soviet Union had a large impact on the
middle class Americans. Basically the middle class was discarded as something
that served its purpose as a shield from communism.

~~~
ianai
Decades of “trickle down economics” have robbed from the vast majority and
given to the tiny, select few.

~~~
dcgudeman
How has anybody been "robbed"? Per capita income has gone up for everyone, yes
the top has gone up faster but at the end of the day the lower tiers still
have increased in wealth. Honestly I don't understand how you come to your
conclusion.

~~~
gonvaled
Prices have gone up faster.

We consume junk, continuosly.

"robbed" because voters accepted capital concentration by accepting that it
would trickle down, which is a lie.

~~~
adventured
It's not a lie. The US welfare state has massively expanded since 1980. The
percentage share of GDP transferring via welfare state policies has doubled in
20x years.

Both poverty and homelessness are near 50 year lows.

Healthcare coverage is near an all-time high, thanks in part to the vast
expansion of the welfare state.

All of that is being paid for by the rich. The US has one of the most
progressive taxation systems in the developed world. The US middle class is
among the least taxed of any middle class in the developed world, which is
also why the US median disposable income is among the highest.

If you go back to 1980, the inflation adjusted per capita income transfer
going to welfare policies, was close to $3,500. Today it's near $9,000. That's
a dramatic expansion of the social safety net in the US, and it has had very
tangible, very dramatic positive results (including a large reduction in
homelessness).

------
thanatosmin
Actual study:
[https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562](https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562)

Which has a helpful visual summary:
[https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2018/08/15/bmj.k3096.D...](https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2018/08/15/bmj.k3096.DC1/mid_life_mortality_v37_datasupp.pdf)

The title of the Reuters piece is misleading, as declines in 2014 were
followed by greater gains in 2015 for most countries.

------
ransom1538
There really is just two things that kill Americans: heart disease and cancer
[1]. Despite what you hear, it isn't terrorists, depression, tickets or
sharks.

IMHO. Heart disease is related to salt intake and lack of exercise. Cancer is
related to a dna gamble on each cell split (the more you intake sugars & fat
the better odds these deformed cells have * age). So. Basically stop eating.
Fast. Give your heart a break from salt - let those deformed cells die.

[1]
[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm)

[2] Fat monkey vs skinny monkey

[http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/08/calorie_restriction_and_longevity_monkey_study_shows_hunger_doesn_t_increase_longevity_but_type_of_food_does_.html)

~~~
subcosmos
Heart disease actually has links to viral infections by things as common as
herpes :)

[https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/cholesterol-have-we-shot-the-
me...](https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/cholesterol-have-we-shot-the-
messenger-a3f5dfeba09)

------
stenl
I find it very counter-intuitive that they would cite an ”ageing population”
as a contributing cause of a drop in life expectancy. I suppose there might be
some way that that could be true, but it’s not straightforward.

------
henryw
I'm shocked it's not caused by all the crappy diet that is still so
mainstream: sugary foods, government food pyramid made by lobbyists, meat
overdose, etc.

~~~
subcosmos
How about toxic chemicals that make us sick?

[https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/diabetes-time-to-resort-to-
plas...](https://medium.com/@InfinoMe/diabetes-time-to-resort-to-plastic-
measures-500cdf1fe528)

------
symlinkk
Drugs, alcohol, and suicide. All are things people turn to when they want to
escape. The question is, what are people escaping? Loneliness? Poverty?

~~~
p1mrx
People don't need a reason to escape; they need better reasons to stay.
Traditionally that's been the role of religions, but what's the replacement?
How can we give humanity a reason to live, in a scalable manner, without
relying on fictional axioms?

~~~
symlinkk
Family. Men and women need to care for each other and for their offspring.
It’s ingrained in all of us.

~~~
p1mrx
If people only live to make more people, then that's not scalable; it's a
pyramid scheme. Earth doesn't have the capacity for everyone to start a
family.

~~~
usaar333
Are you aware that all people die?

------
ggm
I live in one of the high income economies (Australia) which I think is _not_
in the cohort. I wish it was clearer how the cohorts line up, by economy. The
chart obscures this a bit.

My take-away is that the opiod and other health crises are real, and there is
a real measureable effect but I am less sure health outcomes by high-income
_worldwide_ is in net decline, measured by life expectancy.

[https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562#F2](https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k2562#F2)
are the figures which show six economies this didn't happen in:

Finland, Japan, Norway, Australia, Canada, Denmark

~~~
alexlikeits1999
That's the list and figure for women. For men you have to see the next graph
which is slightly different. Then the next two graphs show you that outside of
the US the opiod epidemic is not a big part of the reason. Then when you look
at the 2016 estimates table you see that this is all just noise except for the
UK and the US.

------
JackPoach
There's a term for it called 'shit life syndrome' \-
[https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-20/hutton-blames-
shit...](https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-20/hutton-blames-shit-life-
syndrome-brits-slumping-life-expectancy)

------
dawhizkid
If only lsd was legal. One of the safest non-addictive drugs out there with
therapeutic and recreational benefits.

~~~
toomanybeersies
This is starting to become a bit of a meme on Hacker News, that LSD, or
ketamine, or MDMA is some kind of miracle cure for all your problems in life.

It's not. I've taken my fair share of drugs in all kinds of different
settings, so I'd consider myself at least experienced in the subject. Drugs
don't solve the problems in your life, they're escapism. To quote (again)
Hunter S Thompson:

> That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America
> selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim
> meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him
> seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could
> buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit.

Drugs aren't going to save the world. The hippies thought that they could save
the world in the 60s with positive energy, wishful thinking, pot, and LSD. How
well did that work out? You could give the whole world a dose of acid, and the
very next day they'd be straight back to killing each other.

I'm all in favour of legalisation, sure, but it's not going to save the world.

Upon saying that, in the correct supportive environment, LSD can be an
incredible tool for healing past trauma. It's a shame that Timothy Leary and
his lot managed to basically kill all scientific research into its therapeutic
benefits for decades.

~~~
dawhizkid
When did I say it was going to save the world? I’m suggesting it is an
infinitely safer alternative than opioids and perhaps if it were legal then
people vulnerable to opioid addiction would be taking something much safer and
non-addictive.

~~~
toomanybeersies
I think that suggesting that people who are vulnerable to opioid addiction
take LSD instead is a pretty reckless suggestion.

I've had the misfortune of taking LSD when I was in the wrong headspace, in
the wrong place (i.e. bad set and setting). It was not a very pleasant
experience.

If your life is so desperate that you're taking opioids to try and dull the
pain of existence (which is a something different situation to progressing
from prescribed opioids to heroin addiction), then taking LSD really isn't the
solution and isn't necessarily a safer alternative. Physically safer, sure,
but LSD can fuck with your psyche in pretty nasty ways.

I'm not saying "poor people shouldn't take LSD", because I'm not a
hypocritical elitist. But I don't think it's really an alternative to opioids,
and don't think it would stop opioid abuse, you'd just be throwing more shit
into the mix.

Weed is a far more appropriate drug. At the end of the day though, drugs are
readily available wherever you are. People will take what they want to take.
Obviously people are taking opioids (or methamphetamine in some areas) despite
the ready availability of marijuana. If people wanted to take LSD, they'd be
able to find it easy enough (or it would find them).

------
aclsid
Anybody else felt that the study is kind of too broad and they kind of say,
yes it is partly because of the opiods but at the same time there is another
study that say it isn't. So I feel I literally read noise.

~~~
bonzini
Outside the US and possibly the UK it is noise; it's not news and the cause is
well understood to be the flu. Fluctuations of a few months in life expectancy
should not be a surprise in countries where it is well above 80 years. The
question is why the decline didn't revert the next year in two of the 18
countries.

------
rossdavidh
Similar conclusion, different article, partially different data sources:
[http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/population-
immiseration...](http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/population-immiseration-
in-america/)

------
singularity2001
Give us the data already:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy)

------
paulcole
Maybe this isn’t as bad as it sounds? Fewer people might be the best way to
limit climate change.

~~~
emodendroket
I suppose "people should die so that climate change is less severe" is an easy
position to take if you imagine the people being killed won't be you or your
family.

~~~
paulcole
I don't have a family but I understand your sentiment.

------
thatfrenchguy
And maybe we all need universal healthcare folks.

~~~
allthenews
>driven in part by the effects of the opioid epidemic on younger adults in the
U.S. and the impact of a severe flu season on older adults in other nations,
two new studies suggest.

More likely we need to fix the socioeconomic circumstances that drive people
toward opioids. Personally, I believe there is a complex cultural problem in
the first world. We have it too easy, can subsist without working, and now
that people are increasingly less religious, with nothing to do all day and
nothing to replace god or community but vapid, consumerist materialism. So
poor people turn to drugs to numb the emptiness in their lives. M Though I'm
sure there's more involved.

~~~
briandear
Are opioids actually an epidemic when measured as a cause of death? 64,000
annually in the US (2016.) That’s not even in the top ten of causes of death.

~~~
ebikelaw
“Poisoning” (overdoses) and suicide are #1 and #2 causes of death for 25-44
year old Americans.

------
myth_drannon
What about the rise of antibiotics resistant bacteria, superbugs... etc.
Everyone is sounding alarm on that, but factually how many preventable deaths
it caused?

