
Jolla survival plan: suggestions - nextos
https://together.jolla.com/question/123255/issue-1-jolla-survival-plan-failure-is-not-an-option/
======
nextos
I feel really nostalgic for Maemo & the Nokia 770 series. A fantastic product
that was ahead of its time, and in some ways superior to the iPhone which
wouldn't be released till sometime later.

It all ended up pretty badly for Nokia, mostly due to suicidal management
decisions first by sticking exclusively to Symbian well beyond its use by
date, then by switching to Windows. Impossible to understand when they had a
winner product in-house.

The Maemo era ended with the N9, outstanding software and hardware killed
before it had a chance to succeed [1].

Jolla was a Maemo spinoff, but without the Nokia hardware expertise and
financial muscle it was quite hard to succeed. Still, I hope they manage to
put things together. I think the world needs a mobile platform with a better
and more open userspace than what Android and iOS offer.

Other projects like Pyra [2] and Neo900 [3] are trying to accomplish the same.

[1]
[http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/22/nokia-n9-review/](http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/22/nokia-n9-review/)

[2]
[https://boards.openpandora.org/pyramain/main/](https://boards.openpandora.org/pyramain/main/)

[3] [http://neo900.org/](http://neo900.org/)

~~~
mikegioia
I still think the n900 was the best phone to have ever been created.

~~~
nextos
I agree. It's so nice because its like a PC: open.

You can tinker with it. You can install different operating systems. You can
interact with it via different peripherals (keyboard, stylus). Current devices
are at odds with this idea. Closed and with programmed obsolescence baked in.

I really think there's room for a platform like Maemo/N900 today. Especially
in a post-Snowden world, where privacy has become a major concern. Neither iOS
nor Android are good enough. Many privacy conscious users have moved to
CyanogenMod, which is OK but a bit immature. It's an Android patch after all.

~~~
mikegioia
I think what's missing is both a stable and cheap SoC, and a mass-produced
open device with keyboard to load linux onto.

If there was some stock phone with average specs that you could buy, like a
Raspberry Pi, then I'd bet we'd see many more options in the same vein as the
n900.

I'm using an LG Cosmos 3 [1] and I'd kill even for access to modify the BrewMP
OS and re-flash it. That's all I'm asking for! Even that seems impossible.

[1] [https://www.verizonwireless.com/basic-
phones/cosmos-3/](https://www.verizonwireless.com/basic-phones/cosmos-3/)

~~~
nextos
Yep. I think it's mostly about mass production. Pyra, not really a phone, but
can be used as one is the closest thing we have to something where you can
install whatever OS you feel like. And it requires a very dedicated effort to
bootstrap a project like this and keep costs within control.

Many projects, like Neo900 (or even Jolla Tablet) have had loads of trouble
trying to manufacture something that is affordable.

------
lemonade
Actually, these are suggestions from users to Jolla. It just shows how people
care about this small company doing what the world needs now - make
smartphones that don't phone home all the time, and that allow you to install
a firewall, inspect what software is really running, block any service you
don't want to give network access, run your trusted open source toolchains for
whatever you need them for and all those other tiny things that make a real
difference from the rest of the industry.

------
dman
Communication from them about the tablets has been horrendous. I backed them
last year and the way the communication around this project has been handled
leaves a lot to be desired. In fact I have a lot more respect for the
openpandora folks whom I have also backed in the past - both projects had
their fair share of delays and hiccups but despite being a much smaller setup
the openpandora did a much more honest and clear job of communicating how the
project was evolving. In Jolla's case even till a week back the whole official
line was that people would be getting their tablets by December.

------
Zigurd
Nokia could do worse than to spin-in Jolla. There must be enough handset
engineers at Jolla and just sloshing around Helsinki that Nokia could spin up
a world-class handset operation tout suite. A choice of Sailfish or Android
would be very nice, especially Sailfish in the form of a Linux tablet.

~~~
pavlov
But why would Nokia want a world-class handset operation when they just barely
managed to offload theirs to a desperate buyer? (The brilliance of the
"burning platform" Microsoft deal is that it made Ballmer emotionally attached
to Nokia's phone business, thus giving Nokia an escape hatch.)

There's no money left in making cell phones today, unless you're Apple or
Chinese. Even Samsung is having trouble. For a 2nd tier brand, it's a really
expensive business to be in -- look at Sony and HTC.

~~~
lemonade
I don't think your analysis of the whole "Microsoft buying Nokia" is correct.
Nokia did not offload, but had no money left to defend itself against an
aggressor. Basically, they were led to the slaughterhouse by the "burning
platform" message from a former Microsoft employee.

The way Elop treated Nokia's technologically superior platform was very
transparently not in the interest of Nokia. The subsequent sale must have
landed him a lot of money. I'm curious what Elop is doing now ...

~~~
pavlov
Elop left Microsoft earlier this year in one of their reorgs. It's reasonable
to say that he was fired, I think.

It was clear before the Elop memo that Nokia's phone business was becoming a
very expensive albatross. If they had stuck with Symbian and MeeGo, the
financial situation in 2013 wouldn't have been much different from what
actually happened with the Microsoft deal: under pressure from Apple and
Android, the phone unit was losing money to the tune of hundreds of millions
per quarter. Except this time, there wouldn't have been a buyer lined up to
pay $4+ billion for it.

So Nokia absolutely did manage to offload the phone business just in time.
Microsoft ended up writing off the whole purchase price.

An Elopless Nokia in 2015 would look a lot like Blackberry. Not quite
bankrupt, but not in a happy place even though it had a technologically
superior new OS and a brand that used to be worth a lot.

~~~
lemonade
Well, Blackberry still has quite a few governments as its customer, and will
continue to have them for a while. And as I recall, the N9 still sold millions
of devices even though it was no longer receiving any promotion. The consumer
market is not the only road to success.

I also would like to think that after the Snowden revelations Nokia would have
been able to convince many organisations that security and privacy are not
dead, and that ones mobile phone is probably the most invasive technology in
use.

It goes where you go, it listens to what you say, it reads what you read. It
should have only one master - its owner. So far Jolla never had the scale, the
public visibility or the political profile of Nokia as the European champion
of technology. That story could have been told by Nokia far better.

------
outside1234
Suggestion: Shut it down. There are really cases where it is hopeless and this
is one of them.

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lemonade
Am I missing something? This leads to a wiki page that does not actually say
anything about a bankruptcy.

Can you either substantiate or remove - remaining sailors seem to be working
very hard, and I would hate it if false rumors would seed negative energy ...

~~~
nextos
All key persons have quit and they are restructuring debt [1]. Furthermore,
pre-ordered tablets cannot be shipped at the moment.

Does this mean they are doomed? No. I would like them to succeed as much as
anyone, and I'm not trying to spread false rumors or seed negative energy.
Quite the opposite.

[1] [http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/jolla-
debtrenegoti...](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/jolla-
debtrenegotiation-idUSL8N13F3EC20151120)

~~~
lemonade
The original title was changed because it was incorrect. Jolla has to make
some financial restructuring. The Jolla blog posts are more up to date than
this, but IRC might even be better.

------
swiley
I wanted one of their phones so incredibly badly but you can't buy them here
in the US. Now there's the Ubuntu touch phone which you (supposedly) /can/ buy
in the us and (from what I've heard) also runs X11 apps.

------
faddat
Jolla's bankruptcy positively sucks. Their entire enterprise had this...
ebullience about it that couldn't be faked, and from what I hear, their
product matched that.

Well, it's back to the old Fruit vs Chocolate Factory decision...

~~~
lemonade
Please see my other comments. They are not bankrupt. They are having
significant financial issues, but debt restructuring is actually something
that can work really well - the channel tunnel is the living example of this.

I for one am going to order some spare batteries for my phone. That might give
them some extra cash, and it is time to do so anyway ...

------
justinclift
And yet jolla.com has no mention of this (still encouraging buying), and
neither does their blog. Um... wtf?

~~~
nextos
Bankruptcy does not equal closing operations. They are still shipping phones.

They are trying hard to stay afloat by restructuring debt, laying off a big
chunk of their staff and getting some investment.

~~~
justinclift
Still doesn't seem that honest to potential customers.

Trading when the directors know it's bankrupt is a big no-no legally isn't it?

~~~
nextos
Why, they have phones in stock. So it's not like people won't get them. And
the little parts of the OS that are not open will be opensourced if they had
to close operations.

And also I think they will hopefully get some cash from investors and Finish
govt really soon.

