
MacBook Air vs Lenovo Thinkpad X1 - yule
http://0chris.com/macbook-air-vs-Lenovo-thinkpad-x1.html
======
cletus
It's a fairly strange comparison.

It's hard to compare PC and Mac hardware because part of the Mac value
proposition is Mac OS X. If you're not going to run that I would have to ask:
why buy a Mac?

Anyway as for comparison of tech specs:

\- The X1 uses a higher power CPU (up to 2.7 GHz dual core i7, the 13" MBA
tops out at a 1.8GHz dual core i7);

\- The MBA has better battery life;

\- The MBA has a higher-res display;

\- The X1 can have 8GB of memory and the memory and HD are, I assume, user-
replaceable (I can't recall if they're soldered on or otherwise not
replaceable on the MBA);

\- Size/weight (MBA is almost a pound lighter);

\- The X1 seems to have 1 USB 3.0 port, which is nice. The MBA has
Thunderbolt;

\- SSD storage on the MBA goes to 256GB on the MBA, up to 160GB on the X1,
although this may well be user-upgradeable;

\- Pricewise the MBA I think does edge it out, which is kinda amazing. The X1
with i5/128GB SSD currently specs out at about $1700. Price will vary
considerably with offers and coupons.

I have the 1.7/256/13" MBA and love it but I run OSX not Linux on it.

Specs:

X1: <http://shop.lenovo.com/us/ww/pdf/X1_datasheet.pdf>

MBA: <http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html>

~~~
ConstantineXVI
I believe the SSD on the MBA is technically user replaceable, but it's a weird
proprietary format (which some enterprising manufacturer may have cloned, not
sure). Sadly the RAM is soldered; the 4GB cap is the blocking issue for me on
considering one (thank you, Eclipse).

~~~
wazoox
Doesn't swapping to an SSD should make supposedly 4GB of RAM acceptable? I
don't use Eclipse (Dog forbid, I'm an IDE hater) but I can't fathom it needing
more than 4GB of RAM. Heck, I run 2 virtual machines, Firefox and my editor on
my 2 GB MacBook.

~~~
ConstantineXVI
I forget the SSD assist, but I'd have to see it in action before I put cash on
it. Eclipse was tolerable with 4 on my last years MBP, but doubling made a
world of difference.

------
Derbasti
To me, the main limitation of the MBA is that it can only have 4 Gigs of
memory. If it wasn't for that, it would be the perfect laptop. Relatively
inexpensive even, as the article points out.

However, I require 8 Gigs (for running VMs) and OSX (because I have trouble
tolerating anything else), a ~250 Gig SSD and at least some 1400x800 pixels.
That leaves me with a crazy expensive Macbook Pro 15". If it wasn't for the
screen resolution, I'd go with the 13" MBP. If it wasn't for the memory
constraint, I'd go with the 13" MBA. And, well the OSX requirement constrains
me to Macs, obviously.

If I do this, this will set me back some 2700 bucks. I wonder if that is just
bad luck in my requirements or actually carefully planned by Apple Inc.

I also wonder what the same machine would cost if it were not from Apple. (I'd
add: 5-7h battery life, Sandy Bridge processor)

~~~
hackoder
I recently picked up a ThinkPad T420 with a dock for around $1000. Adding in
an mSata 80 gb ssd for $200. i5-2540, 1600x900, 8 gb ram, 2 batteries (9 cell
for 9-10 hrs working in a VM, 6 cell gives around 5-6 hours).

Like you, I enjoyed OS X and the fact that everything worked so well. But it
came to a point where MBP's hardware limitations just got too much (no dock so
I had to plug and unplug peripherals 2-3 times a day, battery not swappable so
5-6 hrs was the maximum I could get, no way to have two hard drives (SSD +
HDD) without voiding the warranty etc) and I decided to switch.

So far so good, the flexibility and build quality are great. Lets see how long
before Windows 7/Debian start to become annoying though ;)

~~~
Derbasti
I have been working on a hackintoshed Dell for the last year or so. Initially,
I tried to work with Windows 7. It really is not bad at all, but my brain
seems to be hardwired to use a Unix command line (and Vim) at this point, so
after a while, I had enough and sought refuge in Linux-land. It didn't last
long though. After fiddling with the Nvidia drivers for a while to get a
multi-monitor setup working, I decided that I could just as well invest that
time in getting it hackintoshed. Amazingly, that worked flawlessly (nearly:
network and sound didn't work. A USB-ethernet adapter and a USB sound card did
the trick, though). Then came Lion and that broke my App Store on the
hackintosh. So it's back to a genuine Mac for me.

It nearly worked, though. I wish you the best of luck.

~~~
Teckla
"Initially, I tried to work with Windows 7. It really is not bad at all, but
my brain seems to be hardwired to use a Unix command line (and Vim) at this
point, so after a while, I had enough and sought refuge in Linux-land."

Have you tried Cygwin? I've been using it for years, with no problems. Unix
command line goodness in Windows.

Also, you can install vim from the Cygwin packages, or install native Windows
vim. Both solutions work well.

~~~
Derbasti
I have used Cygwin for a while, yes. However, I found it to be slow and
just... alien, from a Windows perspective. My main gripe with it was a
different thing though: Its package management is atrocious. Packages are
outdated and there is no simple way to fix them. Also, it installs its own
versions of common software, that are only usable from within Cygwin, but not
from CMD. Honestly though, I never bothered to investigate further after being
annoyed by it a few times, and just used a Linux VM instead.

Gvim works fine on Windows, though. Also, ViEmu has had my love for many
months. It's not like you can't work productively in Windows. It's just that I
am more comfortable elsewhere.

------
rytis
Just out of sheer curiosity, what is the type of the development work you
mentioned in the article? Reason I'm asking is that while perhaps it cannot
(conveniently) be done on Windows (OS on Lenovo), I'm wondering why OSX cannot
be used as a development platform?

~~~
yule
We're targeting Debian, so running that (in a VM) on a 4GB MBA is not
pleasant. Borderline unusable, sometimes. That's why I'd have preferred an
ultraportable with either more RAM or the ability to run Debian natively on.
Turns out, I found none so far.

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ashishgandhi
I know everyone is doing a comparison of checklist specs but to me things like
design of the body, it's durability, touchpad area, etc. along with OSX which
supports gestures on that touchpad and other things that make my computer
usage considerably pleasurable, etc.

Edit: On a side note; good thing that the MBA is coming out competitively
priced here but even if it was a bit costlier than it's competition, I
wouldn't mind paying that little extra for making me not pull my hair out
using my computer.

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SkyMarshal
Air comes with Core i5, not i7.

[http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...](http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_air/select)

Or do the Germans get the Air with i7, while US gets it with i5?

~~~
yule
No, you were right. I updated the article. Thanks!

~~~
iaskwhy
You can upgrade it to an i7 though (not sure the parent was saying you
couldn't).

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tomkarlo
1\. My opinion, but it seem unfair to dismiss the glossy screen for outdoors
without actually having used it. I'm writing this on a MBA right now and I
regularly use it outdoors without any problem, as do most of my coworkers.

2\. If he's going to claim the battery life is better with extended battery,
he needs to add it into his estimated weight as wel (which I don't believe he
has.) Seems like at that point the X1 would be close to twice as heavy as the
MBA, at least 1.5x.

~~~
yule
For what it's worth, I do use an MBA (3,2) and I sometimes have problems with
the glare screen indoors (have to move it around to diminish sunlight
reflection).

Of course batteries add to the weight, I just mentioned it because sometimes
you just need those extra hours, just like some people specifically need 8GB
of RAM.

~~~
tomkarlo
The disadvantage of a glossy screen is that at some angles, you'll get more
glare. The advantage is that (as you note) if you modify its angle, you get
less glare than you would with a matte surface.

Agreed that you sometimes need those extra hours. But to be fair you have to
count their weight as well; you can double the usable life of a MacBook Air
with an external battery if you need to but it also doubles the weight.

------
listic
What's the difference between X1 and X220, again?

I really wish Lenovo would get its act together with its product lines,
because it's nearly the only company besides Apple that makes hardware I can
love, but it really takes time to unpack the logic behind its product lines.
The other company is Sony and it has similar problems.

~~~
cjy
I had the same question:
[http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=96815](http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=96815)

------
sorbus
I'm a bit surprised that the Asus U36SD isn't in the comparison too; it's
slightly lighter than the X1, although not quite as thin, has a better battery
life with the integrated battery (and identical with the slice battery), the
highest configuration has the same processor as the X1 (though I haven't found
anywhere that actually sells that configuration), and a much better GPU.

The low-end configuration of the U36SD is about $400 cheaper than the low-end
X1 or 13-inch Macbook Air, too, as well as having a better processor than
both, although this comparison focuses on the high-end, so that's not too
relevant.

~~~
yule
I can't keep track of all the models around, so I picked the biggest
competitor to the MBA. On a glance, that Asus doesn't seem to have a
particularly sturdy case and also Nvidia Optimus might make it a nightmare to
run Linux on.

------
CosmicShadow
You can't accurately price a Lenovo machine unless you are using epp coupons:
[http://shoplenovo.i2.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/ibmeppfrie...](http://shoplenovo.i2.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/ibmeppfriendca/StdAffinityPortal/en_CA/Lenovo:EnterStdAffinity?affinity=ibmeppfriendca&passcode=FNDEPP)

I got the same X1, but with base 3 year warranty and no upgrade on HDD for
$1,449.27 CAD, and you can easily put in a 120gb Vertex 3 for an extra $260.

At least here in Canada we've got RedFlagDeals.com that always has an ongoing
discount thread for lenovo, and sometimes you can get way better discounts
than above.

~~~
yule
Coupons are not an option in Germany, that's why I compared stock prices.

------
alexholehouse
Nice article, although you say,

"In this article I'm trying to compare _two_ portable laptops..."

and then in the following paragraph

"In my comparison I will try to fully spec _three_ comparable laptops"

~~~
yule
Thanks for noticing, I fixed this now. I wanted to include the X220 in this
comparison but then decided to leave it out.

------
pella
similar "Ask HN: Any good Macbook Air alternatives?"

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2933825>

------
jwingy
So is the MBA totally unsuitable for running Ubuntu (e.g. wireless won't
work), or just a bit more of a hassle to get working properly?

~~~
w0utert
The linux compatibility argument is entirely moot, the MBA will run linux just
as well as the Lenovo, there basically is no difference in how hard it would
be to install or setup.

Every part in the MBA has Linux drivers, which isn't surprising in any way,
since there are no magical parts made by unicorns in there, just the typical
combination of generic PC components you will find in other laptops. What sets
the MBA apart is the way the body is constructed and how it holds all the
stuff inside together in such a small enclosure.

~~~
blinkingled
Ooh, no, I beg to differ. Reality is quite different. Lenovos are near perfect
Linux machines - everything including power management, various buttons,
suspend/resume etc. works great.

MBA is far from ideal Linux machine - Apple's EFI implementation is well known
to be crappy to the point Linux kernel developer mjg59 routinely blogs about
it. Power management sucks - for example - it runs hotter, battery dies in 2-3
hours tops. On my X220 I can get 6+ hours and it never gets hot.

[EDIT]: Check this out <http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1810275> for
the pain involved. In comparison my X220 had one minor issue that occurs under
heavy load but can be easily fixed.

~~~
thoughtsimple
I have to wonder about the Linux requirement though? What do you do on Linux
that can't be done with OS X underlying BSD? If you are a linux developer then
I can see it but if you are doing almost any other development or design,
there is little to recommend Linux over BSD and many reasons why OS X is
superior as a desktop OS.

~~~
wazoox
> _many reasons why OS X is superior as a desktop OS._

I'm posting this from my MacBook, but I'd say only one thing: Focus follows
mouse. That's the one true way.

------
jbk
Why not comparing to the x220? (Honest question)

~~~
revorad
I'm guessing because he said 'around 13" display size' and some people argue
the X1 has better build quality.

------
bryanlarsen
If you're looking for something similar to an Air but cheaper, look at the new
Samsung S3. [http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/10/acer-announces-the-
core-i5-...](http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/10/acer-announces-the-
core-i5-aspire-s3-ultrabook-available-this-week-for-the-ultra-bargain-of-899/)

------
Create
Report of Hongkong-based NGO SACOM about working conditions at the world’s
leading electronics manufacturer, 2011-09-24:

[http://www.ppp.ch/fileadmin/francais/Politique_developpement...](http://www.ppp.ch/fileadmin/francais/Politique_developpement/HTNR/2011_09_24_iSlave_Behind_iPhone.pdf)

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samirahmed
Even at a base level.

128 gb SSD. Core i5 ULV. and 13 inch screen outperforms an X1 and X220
primarily in terms of usability and is within 100 dollar price range. X220 has
fantastic battery but is not ultraportable...

------
IanDrake
I'm looking at my MBA right now and don't consider the screen "glossy". I've
had glossy screens before, this isn't anything like that.

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sardonicbryan
I love my Thinkpad T420S -- it's light, it has SSD, 8GB RAM so it's fast as
hell.

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Maro
All I got from this is that Lenovo has laptop called X1 which is supposed to
be like a Macbook Air and costs about the same. Looking at it on youtube:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69V1XkZ-FeQ>

It's still that crappy plastic PC feel with the stickers on it.

------
joell
I know they say a MBA can only have 4GB of ram but that isn't necessarily
true.

I had a Macbook (White) from Fall 2010 that claimed could only have 4GB of ram
but was able to install 8GB successfully.

~~~
verisimilitude
It is true. Check out the iFix it teardown[1]; you'll see the RAM is soldered
to the board. I still don't think 4GB versus 8GB matters as much -- you'll be
paging to an SSD, after all.

[1]: [http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Air-13-Inch-
Mid-2011-...](http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Air-13-Inch-
Mid-2011-Teardown/6130/1#s26665)

------
clistctrl
I started using a MacBook air after the 3rd replacement of my Lenovo T410s.
The screen would have a large white line across it (happened 2 weeks after i
got it) and each time it was replaced, it happend again. The body was also
brittle, and cracked. Half the people on my team had the same laptop, and had
near the same experience. How such a flawed laptop could pass quality control
is past me, but I'll definitely never buy a laptop from them.

~~~
breuderink
So, which one is the crappy laptop? The Lenovo, or the Macbook?

~~~
clistctrl
T410s

