
Fear and beauty: two weeks living with Covid-19 - mighty-fine
https://joshuaweissburg.com/2020/04/12/fear-and-beauty-two-weeks-living-with-covid-19/?utm_source=yc
======
Barrin92
I think there's an interesting conversation to be had about the psychological
nature of this pandemic. The author of the article is 39 years old, I'm quite
surprised by the severity of the experience that he reports.

There was a similar article in the NYT recently by a woman whose husband
contracted COVID, had a relatively 'normal' pneumonia, but the article read
like a war report out of an Ebola zone, allusions to Chernobyl the TV series,
and COVID as a silent killer, and so on.

Now I don't want to diminish the personal experience of anyone, but I'm still
surprised how many people in their 40s, 50s, 60s who ought to have had
personal experience with tragedy and illness seem to have serious
psychological trouble coping with the simple fact that we're for a while
living in a pandemic and that life has become somewhat more dangerous.

It's not that I'm personally not worried at all, but there has to be some
perspective. Life is more dangerous, but it's always somewhat dangerous. I
wonder if it's, in particular, a phenomenon of affluent societies that haven't
had to deal with serious stressors in a long time.

If you've ever been to Israel and lived there for a while and you go to a
wedding and five minutes later there's a bomb alarm and there's pretty much
rockets flying your way all the time, and you observe how resilient people are
in coping with danger in their life, observing a lot of cultural response here
worries me a lot.

~~~
wccrawford
I'm in my 40s and haven't had to deal with any really crazy situations like
this. It isn't just that there's a possibility that 1 person I love could die
from this, there's a possibly that _any_ of them could. And the older they
are, the more likely that they could die from it.

On top of that, I can't spend time with them in the way that I would if I knew
they were at risk. I have to stay away from them instead. It's the opposite of
what I'd do if I knew a loved one was dying.

I think I'm dealing with it better than most because I'm an introvert. But I
watch other people around me being affected by this, and I can understand it.
It's a lot of new, different stress all at once.

~~~
Kaiyou
Anyone could die in a car crash, but that doesn't really get people worried.
There's a million ways to die at any moment, but people just don't worry about
it.

~~~
enderjs
We have accepted the other tigers. We are still painting this one.

------
AlexanderNull
Great write up on the nature of fear! It's amazing how much the mind can fight
to deny the reality of the situation you're in during such episodes.

The dull chest pain sticks around for a surprisingly long amount of time. I'm
at day 25 now since my ER visit and just noticed that I haven't felt any of
that dull pressure in at least 2 or 3 days at this point.

~~~
drabadur
What exactly is this dull chest pain? I've had symptoms of lower chest and
back-pain more than a month ago, with a strange feeling of not being able to
get sufficient air through my nose as well as seemingly high blood-pressure
and heart racing in late afternoons. This all lasted just short of a week, but
took a couple of weeks in total until I could say it was gone, with a
persistent minor dry cough. No idea if it was Covid but the symptoms sound
strangely familiar with what other people experience elsewhere in my
community. Could be panic attacks as well, obviously, but it felt strange.

~~~
meerita
I experienced the same. I even did gym at home with good performance but i
felt weird sensation on my chest. I don't want to think i had covid, but so
many people had it that I am surprised i don't.

~~~
steveeq1
This is availability bias. Because you hear it in the news so much, whenever
you have some weird pain in the body, the bias make you think "covid-19".

I'm not saying you don't have it, but I'm saying your mind is making it seem
much more likely than it actually is.

~~~
drabadur
Fact is, that when I know when something feels unusual. And when this
happened, I had no idea what the Covid symptoms are like. And at the time, I
also didn't think that it was this. Only after several people in my community
reported the same "symptoms" did I become suspicious.

~~~
steveeq1
And hence, the availability bias.

------
klmadfejno
When I was in high school I was deeply afraid of death and thought about it
daily. Then a few times over that period I got sick. Not unusually, or deathly
sick, but feeling like utter garbage and perhaps enough to wonder if there was
a very remote chance that the illness could threaten my life. And everytime I
wondered that I realized that I had no fear of death which struck me as really
odd given that I would otherwise feel true terror at the thought of impending
doom. This led me to the belief that fear of death is really just a biological
impulse, and that pressing that mental button that says death is scary is
just... not actually a reflection of your mentality but a biological response
which can be dulled by physical circumstances like illness. By recognizing it
wasn't really a rationally based thing, it became much easier to just not
touch that biological scare button when contemplating death, and now it rarely
bothers me (though it's still easy to trigger terror if I want to).

I feel I arrived at a similar place to the author but on a much less romantic
path. Not sure if I would have the same experience if the illness actually
felt life threatening in an active way (e.g. breathing problems like the
author experiences).

~~~
vanniv
When I was younger, I was like you describe. I'd lay awake nights kinda
freaked out that I would die some day.

I remember looking up life expectancy and comforting myself that I had more
than 75% or whatever left. When that wasn't enough, I'd think about how far
away I was from graduation, and how, even after that, I'd have whatever-
percent left.

I knew it didn't work that way, and it was irrational, but it helped me sleep,
so I did it.

I'd absolutely panic if I had a fight with a family member at night and didn't
have a chance to make up before bed -- what if I died before morning!

But, illnesses never scared me much.

Then one day.

One day, I was at the doctor's office, having a minor outpatient surgery
performed. Very minor, local anesthetic only, procedure takes 10 minutes.

And the doc stuck me with the needle for the anesthetic, and it hurt just a
little more than expected, and vasovagal reaction, and I fainted. Tunnel
vision, echoing sound, sense of impending doom, blackness.

I was awake again before I finished falling back on the exam table, but I had
a major panic attack. Never happened before in my life, but suddenly I was in
an unimaginable blind panic, hyperventilating like mad, hands and feet
starting to tingle and feel like they were vibrating.

Took two hours to calm down enough that they let me leave.

From that day on, anxiety attacks were a part of my life. For awhile, they
were uncontrollable, and I started down the path that leads to agoraphobia.
Before I locked myself in my dorm room forever, I got the anxiety just barely
enough under control to keep living. I learned to talk about my anxiety very
frankly with anyone who would stand still long enough to listen. This might be
awkward oversharing, but it prevented me from getting stuck in the feedback
loop that keeps people locked at home -- fear of the embarrassment of a panic
attack being enough to start one.

I eventually learned to repeat my anxiety mantra aloud: "if every time I felt
short of breath was really a heart attacks, I'd already have died long ago --
so these are not heart attacks"

Anyway, long story, but the result is that 20 years later, I rarely have
attacks anymore, though I'm still a bit of an anxious soul. I don't often have
that existential angst that used to lead me to count lifespans as a teen.

But I do get massively panicky when I'm sick, now.

I'm not sure what you said that compelled me to write this, but... it needed
to get out.

~~~
cableshaft
I started getting what I now think are probably anxiety attacks a few years
ago. I have asthma and now some GERD symptoms, so every once in awhile, I get
symptoms that mirror the online warning symptoms for heart attack: numb left
arm, tingles throughout my body, lightheadedness, skipped heart beats, chest
tightness, chest is painful to the touch, etc.

I'd go to urgent care and they'd always be like "well you have a normal EKG
but you should go to the hospital to be sure" and then the emergency room will
talk to me, take my blood, monitor me for a few hours and take my blood again
(sometimes it takes awhile for the markers of a heart attack to show up), and
then tell me it was probably just heartburn.

I've gone five times in the last 2 years for this same song and dance (I skip
urgent care now). I have had these feelings happen about 20 times besides
that, so I'm not even going every single time, there's just some especially
scary ones that make me go "It's probably nothing, but just in case!" Last
time I was driving and could barely focus on the road, which was new. I was
pretty close to an ER and even then I pulled off the side of the road and
tried to calm down for 20 minutes before finally deciding to go in.

I'm only in my 30s, but I have seeing more and more stories of people dying
from heart attacks that young (I know it's still rare, but it can happen), so
that doesn't help. And if for some reason it ever does become a heart attack,
I probably won't tell the difference and might not go in for it, and end up
dead.

So yeah, anxiety over heart attacks can be no joke. I have real symptoms that
manifest over it. Sorry you're going through this. I don't know if it'll ever
go away for me, myself. Worried it might just be something I have to live with
from now on.

But I'm fine normally except for the rare attacks. Even this pandemic isn't
really bothering me too much, although I'm doing my best to avoid getting it,
especially since I have other issues that could lead to a bad outcome (like
the already mentioned asthma).

~~~
ilaksh
Havw you ever had a scope or scan/x-ray at the time of the attack? If it's
that serious then it sounds like you may have a very significant hernia at
those times.

There are surgeries that can help with hernias (which can come and go like
that).

Another thing, have you tried Nexium? For me that has been really useful to
reduce symptoms (although I do still have some serious symptoms). But it
sounds like you have a more significant hernia.

~~~
cableshaft
There might be something to the hernia idea. I noticed my solar plexus area
can stick out slightly at times (especially when I was leaning back last
night). I always thought it was just the bone in my ribcage (mostly feels hard
like the ribs surrounding it), but maybe it's more than that. I might have to
get it checked out after this is over.

If I do have it, I think it's still pretty minor, at least compared to some
pictures of hiatal and epigastric hernias I see online. It hasn't ever stuck
out that far, and no doctor has ever noticed a problem.

Yet another reason to lose a bunch of weight. Throw it on the pile. Need to
get my act together.

------
DoreenMichele
_But for those of us with Covid-19, the full force of modern social
technologies that enable cooperation, communication and specialization among
billions of humans around the world has been applied and come up snake eyes._

For the record, I don't think this is an accurate representation of the
situation.

The world has done a remarkable job of coming up with ventilators, masks and
new practices on the fly in the face of overwhelming demand and labor
shortages.

The ventilators aren't working as well as expected, so doctors are
collaborating via internet in real time to come up with other options. New
hypotheses concerning the pathology of the condition are already emerging.

Also, with internet access, you can google up medically recommended airway
clearance techniques, recommended OTC drugs, etc. You can double check that
it's a reputable source and an established practice for management of lung
issues.

Covid19 is not the first time people have been faced with managing deadly lung
issues. You can find good info on that very thing by searching for resources
for _cystic fibrosis._ It's very deadly and people routinely manage it from
home with medically approved and doctor recommended treatment modalities.

~~~
0x8BADF00D
As a matter of caution, I always keep psychostimulants handy. Particularly:
ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, and amphetamine salts. Also keep some other beta
receptor agonists, like Ventolin. You never know when it can save your life.

~~~
rashkov
Are those medicines actually advisable for covid?

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm failing to find a list of recommended OTC drugs for covid19. All I'm
finding is a generic statement that OTC drugs may help with symptom
management.

[https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-
sick/ca...](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/care-
for-someone.html)

Ventolin is an inhaler. It opens up the airways during asthma attacks or
similar. Pseudoephedrine is a decongestant.

The article under discussion indicates the author was given an inhaler and
cough medicine at the ER and states they _helped marginally._

Amphetamine salts are apparently used to treat ADHD. Some people use them
illegally to concentrate for mid terms and finals at college or similar. I'm
not personally aware of any valid reason to think they are appropriate for
covid19.

Epinephrine is used to treat potentially deadly allergic reactions. You might
know it better as "an epi pen."

It is contraindicated for a long list of things, including several heart
issues that are potentially similar to the heart distress covid19 is causing
in some patients. I'm guessing epinephrine would be a really bad idea to use
with Covid19 without a really compelling reason, especially without medical
supervision.

[https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-146863/epinephrine-hcl-
pf...](https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-146863/epinephrine-hcl-pf-
injection/details/list-contraindications)

~~~
sfj
> Amphetamine salts are apparently used to treat ADHD. Some people use them
> illegally to concentrate for mid terms and finals at college or similar. I'm
> not personally aware of any valid reason to think they are appropriate for
> covid19.

There is a study that shows in vitro, it helps fight the flu:
[https://covid19data.com/2020/03/06/meth-may-fight-flu-
virus-...](https://covid19data.com/2020/03/06/meth-may-fight-flu-virus-study-
suggests/)

There are also many reports from meth users that they almost never get sick.

~~~
anon9001
Huh, interesting. I wonder if ADHD amphetamine users get sick less often than
others.

It's just a personal anecodte, but whenever I get sick, I take amphetamine
salts. It absolutely lets me power through the day and relieves symptoms
(mostly stuffy nose), but I don't know if it's sustainable for something as
long lasting as c19.

~~~
taneq
Ephedrine is a key ingredient of many cold and flu drugs, or was until the War
on Drugs caused it to be banned for being an amphetamine precursor. I wonder
if any amphetamine metabolites have similar effects to ephedrine?

------
damnruskie
no good content to contribute here other than to say: thanks much for penning
this piece. hope you recover soon.

------
codac_mac
Thanks for this. I'm from MA - woke up a couple days ago with heavy breathing
and am now progressing into GI issues. Been racing through the probabilities
and dependencies of my potential contact so this encapsulated how I'm feeling
well - awful how we are so helpless but not much you can do..

------
debaserab2
I'm also in CO and had COVID-19 like symptoms about a month ago (fever and GI
issues without any other major symptoms for a week progressing into a dry
cough/heavy breathing -- completely unlike any other flu I've had). I never
got tested due to lack of test kits here in CO at the time and because my
symptoms stayed manageable I never saw a health care provider beyond a virtual
meeting to get a rescue inhaler.

At the point when my fever started getting more severe is about the same time
people were going absolutely crazy buying everything up - my girlfriend
couldn't even find a thermometer or medicine to keep my fever down. Luckily I
had a friend who overnighted a bunch of supplies to me.

It's really scary to realize there is a possibility that you could die, alone,
in a hospital, unable to have family visit. The lowest my blood oxygen got was
89% -- I'm fortunate that if I had CVD19 I seem to have got the "light"
version of it and never reached the respiratory distress that would put me in
the hospital.

I strongly suspect that the reported infections in CO are off by a lot - it
wouldn't surprise me to find out it is/was off by an order of magnitude.

~~~
JMTQp8lwXL
The U.S. has about 600k cases. One order of magnitude more is 6M cases. That's
still very far from broadly spreading. It's worrying about the viability of
the herd immunity theory (too few people had it), and opening the country soon
(a few weeks of exponential case increases would overload hospital capacity,
even after stemming the case growth through sheltering-- putting us back to
square one). It feels, 1-2 months into this, we have no good options.

~~~
fyfy18
At least in Europe the results of quarantine are starting to show results,
Italy, Spain and Germany and all seeing a drop in new daily cases and deaths.
Spain will allow factories and businesses that can't work remotely to reopen
today, although there are concerns it may be too early. Other European
countries that imposed quarantine 'ahead of the curve' are not facing any
issues in terms of hospital capacity.

~~~
joe_the_user
That still doesn't explain how opening businesses can avoid infecting many
more people. Now certainly but even when infection rates get considerably
lower.

A scan of recent news seems to indicate Spain doesn't have anything like a
testing program in place.

A look at Italy, Spain, France and Germany seems to indicate the epidemic has
plateaued, not stopped and it's plateaued at a fairly high level.

------
juanre
I am going through pretty much an identical situation, except that a doctor
prescribed antibiotics over the phone (assuming that the chest pressure and
shortness of breath are due to the bacterial secondary infection) and I seem
to be getting better.

The uncertainty has been eased by a little gizmo to measure the oxygen
saturation in blood, which I got on amazon for £75 as soon as it was obvious
that I could not breath well. I am probably fine as long as the saturation is
> 92% or so.

Of course I have doubts about the reliability of a medical device off amazon,
but it seems well done and, interestingly, it gives my mind a piece of
seemingly objective truth to latch on.

[Edit - saturation level that will make me go to the hospital]

~~~
nradov
Blood oxygen saturation measurement techniques are pretty simple and well
understood. Even the cheaper devices are usually accurate within a few
percent. But if my level was getting to 85% I would head straight to the ER.

~~~
cableshaft
Yeah, I heard a lot higher number myself. Here's a study I found online about
it:

"Conclusion: Among outpatients with pneumonia, oxygen saturations <90% were
associated with increased morbidity and mortality. Our results indicate a
hospital admission threshold of <92% would be safer and clinically better
justified."

[https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/3/325/305087](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/3/325/305087)

~~~
juanre
Thank you both. Note taken and comment edited.

------
whoisjuan
So he claims that he got it despite practicing all the social distancing
protocols, hand-washing, etc.

Has anyone calculated what are the probabilities of infection in an area with
an active infection cluster while practicing social-distancing and other
hygiene measures?

~~~
DougN7
I don’t know but I’ve become aware of just how difficult it is to remain
pristine. Touch a door handle? After that did you touch your phone, keys or
wallet at the store? Did you touch your car door handle? When you washed your
hands, did you disinfect the faucet handle and soap dispenser after? It’s
always a game of percentages even when you’re careful.

~~~
whoisjuan
Yes. It's extremely hard. Clothes are especially hard. I have to take my dog
out two times a day and I always try to use the same shoes and same hoodie for
this activity. I wash them every other day, but that's a half-baked hygiene
measure.

In reality, the only way to be safe is to always wash all your clothing every
time you go out, but with a dog, I find that pretty hard.

~~~
archagon
I mean, you'd also have to wash your _dog_ , right?

~~~
whoisjuan
I clean his paws after we go out but yeah, the vectors of contamination are
infinite.

------
Havoc
Scary. Need to brush up on my stoicism in case the gods don’t favour me. I can
def see myself feeling the same fears

------
gdubs
I had wondered whether the flu our family got hit with over Christmas could
have been coronavirus (had mentioned previously that my wife actually broke a
rib from coughing).

But then a few weeks ago we all started to sneeze, cough, and run low grade
fevers. Wife lost her sense of smell. And then a bunch of symptoms between us
that I later learned are all coronavirus symptoms.

The dominant things for me was the shortness of breath, and the extreme
fatigue. Like, feeling like you’ll just go “goodnight!” and collapse on the
kitchen floor fatigue.

The breathing was the most disconcerting. I’d wake up in the morning thinking
I was getting better, but by the afternoon I’d feel like someone was sitting
on my chest. The cough never really got crazy bad for me. Where a panic attack
might feel like you can’t catch your breath, this felt more like trying to
breath under a swimming pool.

Caring for 3 young kids with a sick spouse has been... a test, lol. But
fortunately we’re all young and healthy and things are returning to normal. As
slowly as it came on. Luckily I stocked up on things just in case, but at the
height of being sick it was impossible to get any grocery delivery windows.
They did finally come through about a month into this process, so, feeling
grateful all around.

I had what would be called a “mild” case, but it definitely sucked. Looking
forward to antibody testing so we can know fo sure it’s what we had, but based
on all of the symptoms, the long incubation time, etc, it seems very likely.

~~~
StavrosK
Was anyone in your family asymptomatic?

~~~
gdubs
Not really. Only in that the kids symptoms were fairly mild — cranky, cold-
like symptoms, etc. Which is apparently fairly common with coronavirus and
younger kids (thankfully).

------
ashildr
> So I had a higher chance of dying from this disease than winning a raffle at
> a small concert.

I know this is not the main topic of this article, but I’ll steal this
sentence to convey the importance of taking precautions against COVID-19 to
people who feel that it’s statistically irrelevant.

~~~
steveeq1
It's not "statistically irrelevent", but the risk is being overblown. There's
a lot of availability bias being introduced by the media right now.

------
exabrial
I think the risks shouldn't be downplayed, but the news media, aka advertising
industry, frenzy over this pandemic is disgusting. Nobody that contracts this
virus should fear death, yet that is what the mainstream media is selling and
people are consuming: fear, death, uncertainty.

~~~
GhostVII
If you are elderly than you should definitely fear death. But yes if you are
under 50 it's more likely you will be killed driving to the hospital than by
the virus.

~~~
Xenograph
> if you are under 50 it's more likely you will be killed driving to the
> hospital than by the virus.

Apologies if this was intended to be hyperbole, but it is not true according
to our current knowledge. Estimated fatality rate for adults 20-30 is 0.03%,
30-40 is 0.08%, and 40-50 and 0.16% [1]

The probability of dying from one single vehicle ride to the hospital is
several orders of magnitude less than 0.1% or even 0.01%. There are 1.25
deaths per 100 million vehicle miles driven in the USA [2]. Even if the
hospital is 100 miles away, your odds of dying on the way there are 0.000125%.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_disease_2019#Progn...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_disease_2019#Prognosis)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_United_States)

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm guessing the intent was more along the lines of "Car trips generally are
more deadly on an annual basis and we don't stress about that. In fact, if you
try to encourage people to walk, bike and take public transit based on the
idea that car trips kill and maim, you will be generally blown off."

------
skc
At this rate I'm fast approaching the point where I would rather have an
infection positively confirmed and roll the dice that is heavily loaded in my
favor.

Not knowing if you properly decontaminated that last batch of groceries is
nerve wracking.

~~~
mdgrech23
that's an interesting take. The words be careful what you wish for come to
mind when your reading your comment.

------
ilaksh
I just have to wonder, the number of people in this thread who claim to have
had the virus but never got tested.

People are just way too sure it was that one virus. There are other viruses
that can cause similar symptoms.

------
pm_me_ur_fullz
> I asked him about his experience, which was very much like mine. This was a
> different kind of encouragement than my friends and family could provide who
> did not share my experience.

A little more useful than "it'll be fine"? eh?

I honestly hate the empty empathy from people with no say in the matter. Its
cultural and I think it develops into a mental issue of denial. Saying "you'll
die if you don't breathe, I don't want that" is good enough, for me. People of
some cultures would say that. Are we really worried about the patient losing
the will to live without other people's hopium? Is that really a co-morbidity?

Sorry if I sound salty, I just finished doing a bunch of interviews where
other people told me it'll be fine and it wasn't and I already knew how random
it is. These are binary events.

~~~
vanniv
Empathy often feels more genuine and less awkward than sympathy.

It's actually really hard to express sympathy usefully. I always feel like a
robot when trying.

Yet once you've lived it, empathy is somehow natural

------
praeter
If you don't get tested - the odds are you won't - the relief of recovery is
quickly replaced with doubt, "was it really Covid-19?" And you must fearfully
go on acting like it wasn't.

~~~
californical
Not if you're people I've talked to recently -- any cold or flu and people are
like "yeah I had it any it wasn't too bad, I don't get all the fuss. I'm
immune to it now!" Even though they never got tested

~~~
steveeq1
For the vast majority of corona viruses cases, it is, in fact "not too bad".

There is survivorship bias in the media reports. Mild cases don't get reported
because it's bland, common, and everyday. The ones that cause death DO get
reported because it's clickbait basically. This biases the population to
overestimate the risk from this.

~~~
californical
The point I was trying to make though is that people that almost certainly
didn't have it are assuming that they did, which is dangerous because now
they'll be much less cautious

------
pm_me_ur_fullz
does anybody else feel like they skip straight to acceptance in circumstances
over people have to ride the 5 stages of grief rollercoaster?

I can accept the randomness of not being rewarded for doing the "right thing"

------
mikekchar
I've been struggling with health issues for the past 3 years. My heart races.
My blood pressure spikes to dangerous levels. I get heart palpitations. I get
pains in my chest. When it happens it's alarming and it's easy to fall into
fear. I've gone to the hospital a few times absolutely sure I'm having a heart
attack. But it seems that my heart is fine (as far as anyone can tell). I have
a host of other problematic symptoms too, but for years nobody could find any
real problem.

It's easy to say, "It's a panic attack". It does not appear to be life
threatening. But boy does it _feel_ life threatening. The doctors all say, "We
can't find anything wrong with you" (apart from you heart racing randomly,
your blood pressure spiking to dangerous levels, heart paplitations and
various other problems). But what if they missed something? It's pretty hard
to gamble your life on this stuff. I was absolutely fine until one day I
wasn't. _Something_ must have changed.

One of the problems with getting symptoms and not being able to diagnose the
illness exactly is that you will never know. Pain in your chest. Difficulty
breathing. Complete lethargy. It could be corona virus. It could be a panic
attack brought on by worrying about the corona virus. You will never know
unless you are tested (and even then it might not be right).

My experience has been that sometimes I take comfort in imagining that I have
some strange disease that nobody knows about. It certainly feels better to me
than, "My nervous system is making me ill through stress that I don't know how
to relieve". But, I've also found that if I believe I'm ill, then the symptoms
feel worse as well, even though I get some psychological relief from the
stress of experiencing the symptoms.

The best way that I've come to deal with the problem is simply to believe that
I will feel well again soon. I may feel bad _now_ , but _soon_ I will feel
better. I may have an illness. I may not have an illness. It may be life
threatening. It may not. Even if it is life threatening, there is nothing more
I can do. So it is best to believe that I will feel better soon. This has
helped me immeasurably, even though it is quite difficult to do.

I recently (and as a last resort) had a sleep test. I averaged 52 apnic
arousals per hour. In other words, at most I was sleeping for a minute or so
at a time. They gave me a cpap machine and while I would be lying if I said
all my symptoms are magically going away immediately, I _do_ feel a lot better
now that I've started to get used to the machine.

But the reality is that your belief is powerful medicine in an of itself.
Whether your are ill or not. Whether you have corona virus, or the flu, or
whether you are just very tired and stressed: believing that you will feel
better soon will help enourmously in my experience.

~~~
Enginerrrd
I hate to be that guy on the internet, especially since this is so unlikely,
and since your description is also very consistent with anxiety/psych which is
much more common...

...but particularly because you mention that this is a recent issue and not a
lifelong deal, have you had a doctor rule out a pheochromocytoma? It's really
unlikely since they're rare, (~1000 cases per year in the US) but they can
cause the symptoms you are describing and it would tend to manifest in the age
range of young adult to middle aged adult. And the labs needed to diagnose it
aren't super routine.

But they way you described being totally fine until one day you weren't makes
me have a stronger index of suspicion for a non-psychological cause.

This is super speculative, but there's a tiny chance it could help you since
the treatment (surgery) is usually pretty definitive.

[Link]([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheochromocytoma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheochromocytoma))

~~~
ilaksh
I hate to be that guy but did you read his full comment? Towards the end he
reported a test that confirmed he had a very serious medical condition.

~~~
Enginerrrd
Yes, I did actually. And it's not only not necessarily causative, but they
indicated that their symptoms weren't fully resolved. More importantly, it
could very well be that the elevated catecholamines from just such a tumor are
interfering with their sleep and causing excessive arousals. In fact, that may
even be totally consistent with a pheochromocytoma.

Patients with a pheochromocytoma are notorious for presenting with secondary
conditions that get misdiagnosed as the primary issue and the tumor isn't
discovered until death. They're often called referred to as one of the "great
mimics" of medicine. Note it on the list here:
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_great_imitator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_great_imitator))

------
dustinmoris
I am in my early 30s and I also had COVID-19.

My wife is a doctor and she caught it at work. She and 7 other doctors (8 in
total) all fell ill in the same week. This was about 3 weeks ago.

My wife had a bit of fever for the first 2-3 days (~38C), and she mostly
suffered from a bad headache for about a week, and a cough (mild) for about
two weeks and a sore throat (mild) for the first few days. After a few days
she also lost her taste and smell of food which all came back on day 12
roughly. She is also in her super early 30s and never had shortness of breath
or other issues with the lungs. After 7 days she even returned to work as her
body has fought off the virus by then (even though some symptoms might remain
like a cough).

I contracted the virus from her obvioulsy whilst she was quarantined at home
for 7 days. After 5 days I also started to get my first symptoms. It started
with a lot of fatigue, a sore throat and really high fever. During the first
two days I had >39C fever, lots of shivers, cold sweats, and just feeling
terribly tired.

Whilst that sounds terrible it was not anything different from what I
experienced from previous flus. When my fever soared I felt totally shit, but
as soon as the paracetamol kicked in and my fever declined I was feeling
better and was even able to do minor tasks at home.

My sore throat lasted for about a week, it first got worse and then
disappeared. I also developed an annoying dry cough after 5 days which stuck
with me for about a week. Today I have a mini cough left a bit, but that is
normal again, just like with a normal cold a cough can stick with someone for
weeks after being completely fine again.

My fever disappread after the first 2 days. I also had terrible headaches,
which were the worst and lost my smell and taste, but no shortness of breath.
I was actually documenting all my symptoms every day and I'm thinking of
uploading it to YouTube.

Overall I have to say if there was no stigma with COVID-19 I would have not
even lost a second of a thought thinking that I was _seriously_ ill. It was
honestly a really mild flu after all. The actual flu which I had earlier this
year was much worse if I'm honest. Not even two weeks after I got my first
symptom I was working out in my garden and doing some mild cardio exercises
again. Normally when I get a cold it affects my sinuses which means that I
can't do cardio for at least two full weeks as I always struggle to breath
through my nose for quite some time, but COVID-19 doesn't normally give you a
runny nose and it didn't give me one indeed which means that in my case
COVID-19 was even much nicer to get than a regular cold.

There's a lot of bad stigma and panic around COVID-19, but after all it's just
a new repiratory coronavirus, just like colds and the flu your body should be
able to fight if off normally without any real issues, unless you already have
some serious problems.

It's important to remember that COVID-19 is not a lottery or survival by
_luck_. It is a mild illness if you are a healthy and relatively young human
being. It does discriminate against fragile, old and people with a pre-
existing conditions. If this wasn't true then we would see a much more evenly
spread death rate, but we don't because to most people who are fine this is
barely an illness.

There's only two types of people who die from it:

\- People with a pre-existing health condition

\- People with a pre-existing health condition who don't know about it yet
because no doctor has diagnosed it yet

~~~
Upvoter33
Thanks for sharing, and glad you are well. However, you can't possibly know
this to be definitively true: "People with a pre-existing health condition who
don't know about it yet because no doctor has diagnosed it yet". It could be
that some people just aren't as good as fighting it off, perhaps because they
hadn't had the "right" set of previous illnesses, or who knows what else, that
can lead to fatality. I don't think we know enough to make such bold claims.

~~~
dustinmoris
This is true, there is always some outliers, but I was just trying to speak
generally that for the most part COVID-19 is not this scary crazy lottery. I
see currently so many young people getting mentally more ill than COVID-19
would ever make them ill, because they are constantly being drip fed scary
news stories which makes everyone believe that as soon as you step outside
your house you can breath in a killer virus which will make you suffocate the
next day.

Like with everything in life there are some outliers who just happen to have
really really bad luck, but you can't look at those and be afraid. It's like
with cancer, most people who get cancer are old because for obvious genetic
reasons, but there are some poor children who also develop cancer, but no
child should live in fear thinking that one day they could wake up with a bad
bowl cancer. It's irrational.

------
garganzol
To those scientific minds who enter the symptoms of Covid-19: if you find a
desire and ability to experiment, you may find the courage to try a light
ozone generator in a mostly closed room.

Healthcare systems of many countries are cornered by these assumptions: 1)
light ozone generators cannot do a thing because they produce tiny
concentrations of gas 2) the ozone is toxic.

While both of those statements are somewhat true, here is the thing.

The dangerous side of Covid-19 is its ability to target lungs in a fraction of
patients. While this is a dangerous situation, it also makes it potentially
susceptible to inhale treatments.

Now back to ozone. It is basically a recombined atoms of oxygen, but instead
of ubiquitous O2, ozone is O3. As you might expect, it has higher oxidizing
ability. Human can safely breathe ozone as long as its concentration goes
below 0.2 mg/m3.

Ozone is not only a breathable gas. It also has an ability to disinfect. For
example, it deactivates the viruses by over-oxidizing its surfaces.

Regarding the concentrations. It was shown that to kill 90% of SARS-CoV you
would need an exposure of 20-112 mg / m3 during one minute. Which sounds like
a lot but bare with me.

A disinfection with ozone has an accumulative effect, pretty much like with UV
or radiation. For instance, a home ozonator (ozone generator) typically
produces a concentration of 0.02 mg/m3. It would not kill the virus in a
minute. But it will start to do so in 17 hours of exposure (20 mg/m3 / 0.02
mg/m3 / 60 min/hour = 16.6 hours).

Ozone can be generated in several ways. One of those is by exposing the air to
UV-C. This is a preferable method for virus situation, because not only the
desired gas is generated, but also because UV-C light has an ability to
disinfect the air and surfaces by itself. A win-win.

Please note that UV-C may be critically dangerous to skin and eyes. To
overcome that problem, UV-C lamp should be placed in a black or UV insulating
box, where only a small laminar flow of air produced by the fan is exposed to
UV-C. The suggested power of such a lamp would be something < 10W where 3W
looks like a sweet spot for a 18 m2 room.

Now to effects: tiny fractions of ozone would cause a small sedative effect.
If the breath is difficult then you may find a tiny amount of O3 more
supportive comparing to conventional air mixture which is already a big bonus.

In 17 hours or so of exposure, you are going to feel better, as the consumed
concentration is already promises to deactivate a substantial amount of
exposed virus material (like 90%).

The good things do not end here, as deactivation rate is exponential and in 34
hours you are going to get 99% of exposed virus material deactivated.

Now to the not so good things: ozone is slightly toxic and you would not be
able to use it for too long. 3 days of presumably safe concentration is
already close to a stretch. It not only damages viruses and bacteria, it also
over-oxidizes human cells which leads to their eventual damage. It is usually
felt like a soar throat.

The important points to consider when trying to implement the experiment like
this: 1) safe O3 concentration 2) no direct human exposure to UV-C 3) room
should be on a smaller side, as it is easier to control (8-20 m2 is a sweet
spot) 4) the room should be mostly closed, do not ventilate the room more
often than once or twice per 24 hours for short periods of time like 5-10
minutes; note, that you still need an air to breathe, so a "mostly closed
room" would not mean a "scientifically firmly closed room".

Did I try this extreme idea myself before publicly suggesting it? Yes, I did.
Though for more conventional viruses like seasonal flu. I was never officially
diagnosed with Covid-19, but I'm pretty confident I went through it in the
middle of February when nobody had a test yet.

The idea may sound controversial to the most of population nowadays. But it
surely is effective on viruses as I've experimented with it for 7 years.

I am putting this publicly to spark the minds of researches, including
professionals. This is a low hanging fruit so I'm surprised to admit that
nobody had tried it before in scientifically controlled environment, with
control groups and stuff.

DISCLAIMER: If you do this you do it on your own risk. The large dozes of
ozone and UV can be extremely dangerous and may lead to fatal consequences or
even death. This is not a scientifically proven treatment of Covid-19.

------
sabujp
the word mask only comes up once in the entire writeup, when he went to the
hospital. Did he wear a mask at all times when outside his house?

~~~
Thorrez
Should he have? The only person he mentions coming to his house is his friend
who also had Covid-19.

~~~
sabujp
i mean when he's going grocery shopping, etc around here everyone seems to
have a mask everywhere even when walking their dog with no one else round for
hundreds of feet.

~~~
Thorrez
Oh, I thought you were referring to after he caught it. Around me (Silicon
Valley) only about 10% of people I see are wearing masks.

~~~
sabujp
mask usage >75% in milpitas

------
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
I hate to say it, but I’m actually jealous of people who have gone through and
recovered from COVID-19. You can enter normal life again, you don’t need to
have the fear, the rest of us are simply waiting because the chances of us
getting it at some point is very high.

I actually wonder if some controlled exposure might be a good thing, I can get
it and (statistically) recover from it at a place away from my family, and
then come back and be the one that does everything for everybody.

~~~
pengaru
> I hate to say it, but I’m actually jealous of people who have gone through
> and recovered from COVID-19. You can enter normal life again, you don’t need
> to have the fear, the rest of us are simply waiting because the chances of
> us getting it at some point is very high.

Even if you have antibodies it's not going to be normal a life. There will
still be social distancing expected and enforced, capacity limits at stores,
many businesses closed, and you still need to exercise caution to not spread
it unnecessarily just like everyone else.

~~~
Marsymars
Being able to visit friends and family is a hell of a step up over having zero
face-to-face interactions with any other humans though.

~~~
wnkrshm
You can still be contagious for a while after being free of symptoms - how
long to isolate after that is still difficult to gauge. The NHS suggests 14
days after being free of symptoms. But when is that? That dry cough can last
for quite a while...

~~~
DanBC
The NHS advice is very weak, and much weaker than international advice. I
hesitate to link it because I think they've got it wrong.

[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-
isol...](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-
advice/)

NHS says If you have symptoms the NHS tells you to self isolate for 7 days. If
you still have symptoms you need to self isolate until those symptoms go.

NHS says If you live with someone who has symptoms you need to self isolate
for 14 days from the day their symptoms started.

I think this is one of the reasons we have such high rates of infection in the
UK.

~~~
Marsymars
Which international advice is much stronger than the NHS guidance?

e.g. CDC is the greater of 7 days since symptoms start or 72 hours after
symptoms end: [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/disposition-
in...](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/disposition-in-home-
patients.html)

My local (Canada) guidance is greater of 10 days or end of symptoms:
[https://www.alberta.ca/isolation.aspx](https://www.alberta.ca/isolation.aspx)

