
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease (2014) - tomaskazemekas
http://www.pnas.org/lens/pnas/111/47/16647
======
jsonmez
I fast until 5:00 PM every day and then only eat one meal. I've been doing
this for about 1.5 years.

I have been able to maintain a large degree of muscle and I am pretty ripped.

Easy to adopt your lifestyle to and then you don't really have to count
calories anymore.

Plus, I never have to waste time eating or cooking breakfast or lunch.

~~~
volker48
I really don't understand the mentality that eating and/or cooking is a "waste
of time". Not picking on you specifically it is a common idea and part of the
idea behind products like Soylent. I prefer to enjoy the moments of preparing
my food and eating it.

~~~
Nadya
If dishes cleaned themselves I would cook more. I don't _mind_ cooking but I
hate having to clean dishes so I avoid cooking anything that dirties more than
two dishes.

Cooking leaves me with two options:

1) Clean immediately after preparing my meal. Food is now cold and
unenjoyable, but dishes are done!

2) Put off cleaning dishes until after my meal and food has settled so I can
actually _enjoy_ my food and the result of my labor. Food is now stuck to the
pots/pans and things need to be scrubbed rather than rinsed. God help me if it
was oatmeal I had forgotten about for 30~ minutes. That stuff turns into glue!

So I buy Soylent. I prepare it when I get home. I give the blender a quick
rinse and I'm done. Since it is better cold than warm I can put it in the
fridge and forget about it until I'm hungry.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Put water into every cooking vessel immediately; leave and clean at your
leisure. Its simple.

~~~
Nadya
If you're going to bother filling each cooking utensil with water you're
better off giving them a quick rinse with a spray faucet. As it's faster to
_spray each utensil_ than to _fill each container_. Your "simple" method is a
worse version of method 1 and doesn't actually solve the problem.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Oh chill. Just put a little water in, drop it in the sink. 2 seconds max. And
for a guy that doesn't cook, you sure are an expert.

~~~
Nadya
I handwashed dishes for 9 years. I also cooked dinner for the family (my
mother and three sisters, stepfather was usually still at work) _daily_. I was
also left with the dishes (as we did not have a mechanical dishwasher).

 _Not liking to cook_ has _fuck all_ to do with _not knowing how to cook_.
People who make that assumption and then are judgmental about people who
dislike to cook piss me off. My issue is not that I've _never cooked in my
life_ or that I _don 't_ cook.

Sure, I could solve this by getting frozen lasagna and baking it for an hour
ten. Absolutely no cleaning involved there! But that isn't _cooking_ so much
as _preparing_ a pre-made meal.

What's something you don't like doing so I can judge and belittle you for it?

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I understand that some folks don't like dishwashing. Just countering the
hyperbole that gets thrown around. I too washed dishes for a decade. I didn't
end up resentful and angry.

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richmarr
For anyone having issues seeing the content on mobile, the abstract is this:

"Although major research efforts have focused on how specific components of
foodstuffs affect health, relatively little is known about a more fundamental
aspect of diet, the frequency and circadian timing of meals, and potential
benefits of intermittent periods with no or very low energy intakes. The most
common eating pattern in modern societies, three meals plus snacks every day,
is abnormal from an evolutionary perspective. Emerging findings from studies
of animal models and human subjects suggest that intermittent energy
restriction periods of as little as 16 h can improve health indicators and
counteract disease processes. The mechanisms involve a metabolic shift to fat
metabolism and ketone production, and stimulation of adaptive cellular stress
responses that prevent and repair molecular damage. As data on the optimal
frequency and timing of meals crystalizes, it will be critical to develop
strategies to incorporate those eating patterns into health care policy and
practice, and the lifestyles of the population."

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tomaskazemekas
One of the authors of the article is Michael Mosley, the author of 5:2 diet.
[http://thefastdiet.co.uk/](http://thefastdiet.co.uk/)

------
rekshaw
Abstract of the abstract: Emerging findings from studies of animal models and
human subjects suggest that intermittent energy restriction periods of as
little as 16 h can improve health indicators and counteract disease processes.

~~~
mei0Iesh
That includes sleep? If you sleep 8 hours, awaken at 6 AM, then eat at 2 PM,
it's a 16-hour restriction period?

I naturally go longer than that without eating each day. If you skip breakfast
and lunch times, and include the hours you're asleep, it's easy to "fast" for
closer to 20 hours or more every day.

I wouldn't force that though, I think everyone is different, living different
lifestyles, and their optimal eating cycles will reflect that. When I'm
working primarily sedentarily on the computer, then I'd rather work all day
and eat quickly in one sitting at the end of the day. But if I'm spending all
day doing manual labor outside in the sun, I'll naturally want to eat and
drink more in between.

~~~
ideonexus
According to the Intermittent Fasting site, 8 hours of sleep is part of your
fasting:

[http://antranik.org/intermittent-fasting/](http://antranik.org/intermittent-
fasting/)

This groks with everything I've learned about dieting and exercise. Some
people like to work out in the afternoon because their bodies are at peak-
warm-up. While I like to exercise first thing in the morning because my body
has to find energy in my fat stores after fasting through eight hours of
sleep.

Try weighing yourself before bed and when you wake up. You'll find you lose a
pound or more for exhaling carbon in your sleep:

[http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/06/19/193556929/ev...](http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/06/19/193556929/every-
night-you-lose-more-than-a-pound-while-youre-asleep-for-the-oddest-reason)

Here's how it works for me: go to bed at 9, get up at 5am, skip breakfast, and
put off lunch until 1pm (drink lots of tea during the day). What I've found is
that I can't eat enough calories between 1pm and 9pm to gain weight.

I think these researchers are on to something. Different dieting techniques
work for different people, so it's good to have lots of options.

~~~
randlet
"Try weighing yourself before bed and when you wake up. You'll find you lose a
pound or more for exhaling carbon in your sleep"

I've tried this a bunch of times and have seen up to two pounds difference on
rare occasions!

A significant fraction of the weight loss is due to water loss though.

(and technically it's carbon dioxide, not "carbon", although with climate
change being blamed on "carbon" we may have already lost the war on that
misnomer!)

~~~
fulafel
Technically just carbon is what you lose, on the overight timescale. Oxygen
comes in and goes out in every breath.

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tgb
There's an on-going timing-of-eating study going on at UPenn [1] that is
looking for volunteers. They provide you with 4 months of food (you get a say
in what you get) and they tell you when to eat it (though not how much or
exactly what). As well as compensation. If you're in the Philladelphia area,
it might be interesting to participate or to save money doing this for a good
cause. This is the kind of study we need more of and it's hard to get
volunteers to give that big a commitment. I don't believe that they're testing
fasting, though.

[1]
[http://www.med.upenn.edu/weight/research.shtml](http://www.med.upenn.edu/weight/research.shtml)

(I'm unrelated to this, just know someone participating.)

~~~
fjk
Thank you for the heads up! I just reached out to volunteer.

On a related note, it would be fantastic to have a resource to discover
research volunteer opportunities like this. It's almost impossible to find
these types of research projects without having someone tip you off!

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austinjp
This appears to be the mobile version:

[http://m.pnas.org/content/111/47/16647.short](http://m.pnas.org/content/111/47/16647.short)

~~~
gcb0
ah! Mobile versions of websites. the sure way to communicate you did the
crappiest job building a standards compliant site when you had the chance.

~~~
coralreef
Standards compliance ensures a good mobile browsing experience?

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acchow
A related posted earlier this year also about meal timing:

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413114...](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413114004987)

Interestingly, "Time-restricted feeding is effective against high-fat, high-
fructose, and high-sucrose diets"

------
Goodbro
I have been eating one meal a day for over a year and I notice significant
benefits, mainly a better ability to focus.

I find that eating a low-carb diet keeps me satiated throughout the day during
fasting.

What do you think about calorie restriction diet?

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jcfrei
I've switched to two meals a day with approximately 11hrs in between for about
1 year now. I also noticed a much higher sensitivity to insulin: If I eat
sugary snacks now I experience a much bigger drop in blood sugar levels. I get
really tired about 1.5 hrs after eating three cookies. Interestingly it only
lasts only for about 30 minutes and I'm back to normal. I can only imagine
what would have happened to people from 200 years ago if they were exposed to
our sugar levels...

~~~
craftkiller
Since there's still uncontacted tribes in the world that experiment could
still be performed.

------
rm_-rf_slash
The difficulty with adapting these studies is that culture can have a great
influence in meal frequency and timing.

In America, the typical schedule is to have a large breakfast, get in your car
to work, have a light/medium lunch, then drive back home for a large dinner
with the family.

When I lived with my family in Italy, where cities are denser and families are
closer, things were completely different: breakfast was espresso, and eating
anything more than a croissant was rare. Around 1 the country shuts down with
an audible _clank_ as everyone goes home for a huge lunch with the family.
After work is dinner, but it tends to be much smaller than lunch.

It can also vary depending on the part of Italy. Dinners were much larger in
inland Rome than coastal Gaeta, although Romans tend to stay out much later,
so it makes sense to have the extra calories.

Ultimately, it's an optimization problem that will never be solved. Even if
there is an optimal meal method, most people will reject it because their
personality/culture values pleasure above efficiency. What's the point of
being healthy if you're not happy?

------
yayalice
Another related article about reduced energy intake that adds some social
commentary:
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518570/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3518570/)
"Energy Intake and Exercise as Determinants of Brain Health and Vulnerability
to Injury and Disease"

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GimbalLock
Full text PDF (works on mobile)
[http://www.pnas.org/content/111/47/16647.full.pdf](http://www.pnas.org/content/111/47/16647.full.pdf)

------
MitjaBezensek
A lot of very useful information on intermittent fasting can be found on the
Leangains webpage: [http://www.leangains.com/](http://www.leangains.com/)

------
profeta
i'm too lazy to read all the papers on this subject, so indulge me: Do any
measure brain "output"?

i bet earlier humans would eat a lot, then walk for miles until finding
another spot, or stuff them on seals and then sleep on some warm cave and do
nothing until the hunger was bad enough to justify another hunt on the cold
outside, etc. I doubt you can live that way with a 9-5 job.

~~~
jmnicolas
I did a 15 days total fast (ie no food, only water) last year. As far as I can
tell my brain output remained the same, I could function plainly as a dev.

I was not 100% physically (say 80%), but nothing major (I'm not practicing any
sport though).

~~~
littleweep
This is fascinating to me. How much wait did you lose? Did your hunger stay at
approximately the same level? Did eating destroy your system after your fast?

~~~
jmnicolas
After 2 or 3 days, I wasn't hungry anymore, it was just my brain that wanted
the comfort of eating especially when I was bored. But if you manage to get
over the first days, the willpower needed to go on until the end is not that
great.

Physically I could have done at least 15 more days but I would have needed to
have a busy life. When idle my brain was tricking me, I ended watching a lot
of cooking videos on Youtube, preparing all the good meals I would do once I
restarted to eat.

I felt weak in the morning, but once I started to drink about one liter (about
a quart) of water after waking up it disappeared.

I lost 11.8kg (about 26 pounds) but of course I regained everything once I
stopped the fasting. I didn't fast for weight loss (though I wouldn't have
minded if the loss was permanent, I'm clearly overweight) but for the supposed
global health benefits. Honestly I didn't see much change, it was a bit
disappointing.

Before this long fast I was fasting every Monday and had done a successful 3
days fast. However since then, I wasn't able to fast even one day a bit like
my willpower is gone.

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gtpasqual
The only issue is the necessary culture for that.

Many wouldn't distinguish the line between fasting, malnutrition or even
anorexia.

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jsprogrammer
Using the TOC will break your back button. Be careful.

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BenderV
"The requested page could not be found."

~~~
uxwtf
Same for me on mobile. Website is apparently not mobile-friendly, works with
desktop browser.

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plusquamperfekt
8/16 - 1-9 IM rulez

