
Let's Make Unix Not Suck [Miguel de Icaza] [2000] - rfreytag
http://primates.ximian.com/~miguel/bongo-bong.html
======
jsz0
I wonder if he would choose different terms today. UNIX does not suck as a
desktop operating system. OSX proves you can build a fantastic OS on top of
UNIX. It took Apple only a few years to do it right. What we're talking about
is really a Linux/GPL/GTK/QT/etc problem isn't it? It's also a culture
problem. There's basically no market for consumer Linux software because most
Linux users prefer free OSS alternatives. It's irrelevant anyway -- the battle
for desktop operating systems was over 25 years ago. Apple & Microsoft won.
The future for Linux is mobiles & set tops. It's time to stop living in the
past and focus resources on the future. Let's stop trying to fight lost wars.

~~~
igorgue
Believe it or not, but Miguel is probably one of the most pro - Free Software
that I have read and write to, even if OSX or Windows were so awesome in year
2000, he would still work on GNOME and the Linux desktop. That's just
something he truly believes.

And I don't think Miguel or RMS should engage in a flame war, we owe too much
to this two guys, literately they have written millions of lines of code, that
run on almost every desktop computer today.

------
makecheck
Was this article written recently? There are hints throughout that it might be
a few years old.

Having said that, I think he generally makes good points.

One thing, though: I don't think his examples of bloated applications are
indicative of a Unix problem. He tries to claim that these apps aren't reusing
much code. But as far as I can tell, every application he lists is also ported
to/from non-POSIX OSes (Netscape, Acrobat, Mathematica, Purify, FrameMaker,
etc.). Reusing Unix parts wouldn't help them when they have to port to
Windows, so yes, they probably do have all their own stuff.

------
mbrubeck
This is a talk is from August 2000, when Miguel de Icaza had recently
participated in the founding of Helix Code (later Ximian) which sponsored a
lot of the early development of GNOME.

------
mcantor
Is the first sentence driving ANYONE else completely up the wall?

The Unix system, designed and constructed in the 70s by people living in a
very different world from us, and it has stagnated.

The Unix system and it has stagnated.

------
AndrewDucker
This talk dates from 2000. Any particular reason it's relevant now?

~~~
bitwize
Because Unix still sucks, and de Icaza is being called a heretic for pointing
out the bloody obvious: Microsoft does some things better, and are worthy of
emulation.

~~~
riffic
today's Unix sucks less than the Unix of late 2000.

for instance, millions of consumers carry a Unix around in their pocket. if
that isn't successful I don't know what is.

~~~
neilc
"Successful" and "not sucking" are two very different things.

~~~
adharmad
Unless you have a virtual monopoly, I fail to see how you can be successful if
you suck? Why would anyone use your product at all?

------
mkfort
Isn't this really old? Gnome doesn't still use bonobo does it?

~~~
arthurk
Some modules still use it but it is mostly marked as deprecated and will be
removed in Gnome 3.0.

------
riffic
This was published more than nine years ago.

------
zintzun
How is this news ?

------
drhowarddrfine
I already lost all respect for this guy and now this. He complains about
critics of Microsoft yet turns around and does the same thing those critics
did. His title is a poor choice considering the criticism he is already
drawing from his involvement in the Mono project. Admittedly, I rushed through
the read because I have a plane to catch but I don't understand where he's
coming from with this. It might only provoke and add more fuel to the
suspicion he has turned "traitor" to the *nix and open source community.

~~~
AndrewDucker
The talk dates from 2000, if that helps...

~~~
icey
He's ranting about it without having read it, so I doubt that's going to
change his mind any.

