
Visiting Factories in China as an Entrepreneur - j0ncc
http://needwant.com/p/visit-factories-china-entrepreneur/
======
walrus01
" All we had to do was download an app and click on some mysterious Chinese
advertisements to top up our data. "

This is the sort of shit that keeps network security people awake at night. I
bet they enabled third-party app downloads on their Android phones and
uninstalled some unknown .apk

The future business leaders of America... fuck...

~~~
snicky
> The future business leaders of America... fuck...

* Didn't know they need a visa to China.

* Paid $730 for 3 visas.

* Didn't know there's a border between HK and China.

* Didn't know there's a public transport in HK and didn't need to take cabs for 200 USD.

* Didn't know menus in China are in Chinese.

* Had to eat McD on their 4th day in Asia.

* Had McD again on day 5.

Hilarious story :)

~~~
zaguios
This is a little unfair, a lot of these really aren't too unreasonable if you
are unfamiliar with China. $730 for 3 Chinese Visas with rushed service
actually isn't really overpriced, in fact it's about the price I would expect.

It's hard for them to know exactly how good the Hong Kong public transit
system is without being explicitly told, taking cabs is a natural choice for
most foreigners in a new city. They also stated they knew there was probably a
better way for the boarder crossing, but chose not to look since it was
convenient and they didn't mind spending the money.

I'm pretty sure they knew the menus in China would be in Chinese, they were
just stating the fact so the reader could understand that doing a simple task
such as eating was actually a challenge to a foreigner.

It's not crazy to want to eat something familiar and safe. It's good to try
new things which they did, but some times you just want to order something to
fill you up that you know will taste decent. It takes awhile to figure out
which local cuisines are delicious and which are a bit too foreign for
westerners.

I do think that they should have been a bit more prepared, but they certainly
did a lot better than most people who travel to China. The entire experience
is quite a culture shock no matter how much you prepare.

~~~
ePierre
> This is a little unfair, a lot of these really aren't too unreasonable if
> you are unfamiliar with China. $730 for 3 Chinese Visas with rushed service
> actually isn't really overpriced, in fact it's about the price I would
> expect.

If you are unfamiliar with China, you read about China instead of playing
Nintendo DS... This is everywhere on the Web if you take 1 minute to look it
up.

> It's hard for them to know exactly how good the Hong Kong public transit
> system is without being explicitly told

Again, it's everywhere on the Interwebs. The expat community is HUGE in Hong
Kong and therefore there is a HUGE source of documentation online (not only
official websites, but also blogs and the like).

> It's not crazy to want to eat something familiar and safe. It's good to try
> new things which they did, but some times you just want to order something
> to fill you up that you know will taste decent. It takes awhile to figure
> out which local cuisines are delicious and which are a bit too foreign for
> westerners.

And that's why you usually prepare a trip like this, at least to know how to
recognize characters like 雞 (chicken)， 豬 (pork)， 牛 (beef)， 魚 (fish), 麪
(noodles)， 飯 (rice). With these 6 characters alone, you can already have a
much better understanding of any menu in Chinese.

I'm laughing at Chinese tourists who, after two days in Paris, are sick of the
French food and want fried rice, but it looks like it's the same the other way
around (and even worse, cause usually the Chinese tourists are old and I can
understand they are not used to some food, but when you're young... come on!).

------
pcr0
I hope you didn't just take taxis around all day. Public transport, especially
the trains in Hong Kong are day and night compared to most other countries in
terms of pricing, speed and reliability.

6000USD/Month for 600sqft is ridiculous, even by HK standards. It's probably a
5-star serviced apartment, i.e. long-stay hotel.

Paying 200 to drive across the border is a rip-off though. There are trains
and buses that take you right across for less than $20, in the same amount of
time.

~~~
ddeck
_> Paying 200 to drive across the border is a rip-off though_

Agreed. For anyone planning a similar trip, the train to the border at Lok Ma
Chau costs less than US$5 and you can then just walk through immigration.
Taxis and the Shenzhen subway are right on the other side.

~~~
robryan
You can also get a 5 day Shenzhen only visa at the border for a lot cheaper
than the regular Chinese visa. (Although only from the Lo Wu crossing).

~~~
ddeck
Be aware that U.S. and French citizens are NOT permitted to apply for the
5-day Shenzhen port visa. [1]

It's also not guaranteed for other citizens so probably best to get a regular
China visa rather than risk being turned back at the border.

[1]
[http://www.travelchina.gov.cn/art/2015/1/30/art_15_45566.htm...](http://www.travelchina.gov.cn/art/2015/1/30/art_15_45566.html)

------
ePierre
My goodness. Their website is made exactly after this article:

[https://medium.com/slackjaw/template-for-tech-product-
announ...](https://medium.com/slackjaw/template-for-tech-product-
announcements-f92830f6a2c4)

As for their story... Well, it's great that they wrote up a summary of their
adventures, but I'm appalled at the fact that these three 25-something year
old Americans are amazed that in China, people speak Chinese and nothing is
written in English... Welcome to the World, I guess!

~~~
garrettgrimsley
>three 25-something year old Americans

It says that they departed from St. Louis, but I don't think that they're
American. For one, their English isn't at a native level. Also, at one point
in the article they referred to what the _vast_ majority of Americans would
call a "soccer ball" a "football." There are many other terms and phrases that
I wouldn't expect an American to use, like "China border." Assuming you are
American, think about it, do you hear anyone calling it the "Canada border?"
No, we say "Canadian border." Maybe Western or Northern European.

~~~
ePierre
From [http://needwant.com/about/](http://needwant.com/about/) :

> Marshall Haas, CEO & Co-Founder: A Texas native…

> David Myers, Design & Co-Founder: From New York…

> Jason Cox, Head of Operations: Jason was a fashion model in NYC…

The only one who's not from the US is

> Jon Wheatley, Product & Co-Founder: Born and raised on the south coast of
> the UK…

Are you telling me in addition of not knowing that people in China speak
Chinese, they don't know how to write in their own language?

~~~
desdiv
To be fair, we don't actually have any evidence that the four co-founders
wrote this article themselves. Maybe the bedding manufacturing isn't the only
thing they outsourced. /s

------
mdorazio
I have to wonder if there's a market for people who specialize in helping
foreigners do factory tours like this more efficiently. For a few hundred
dollars, someone who actually knows China could have easily paid for
themselves by preventing ripoffs like the taxi to the border (as others have
pointed out, the train is dirt cheap) and the rush visas (you can get them
done in HK within 24 hours for way less than $200), and made the whole trip
smoother and less stressful. As someone who lived in China, this seems like it
would be pretty fun.

~~~
idra
This market not only exists, but is quite saturated already with plenty of
foreigners based in China making a living out of it. I've done this kind of
work before and it's only fun the first time, then when it's time to actually
deal with the suppliers it becomes stressful on a whole another level.

------
Renaud
I enjoyed that account of their experience. It's a bit cliché and naive but
not in a bad way. They seem to have genuine wonder for what they encountered
and it's an experience that has opened their eyes to a different world and
-hopefully- made them question some of their previous beliefs and assumptions
about the world.

I especially love it when people come to Hong Kong for the first time. I still
view that city with the same wonder I had when I arrived 20 years ago,
probably why I never left.

The account of their visit in China is spot on. It's messy, impossible to
fully grasp, completely alien and yet things get done, fast. You better be
there during early production if you value your product though. They did well
to make the trip.

------
slackstation
They make $350 sheets. Think about that for a second. $350 for cut and sewn
planes of linen.

I was all about it until I saw the price. Elevated for no reason. They sell it
a premium price point to just give the illusion of extreme quality. It's made
just like any other linen bed sheets you can buy with a few buttons to connect
the top sheet to the duvet.

Someone could make a duvet with some buttons and sell it at 1/10th the price.

~~~
j0ncc
Actually, if you price us up against other _linen_ bedding you’ll see that
we’re incredibly competitive. Something comparable would cost upwards of $600.

Once you factor in the fact that linen lasts up to 10x as long as cotton the
price becomes much more stomachable.

~~~
culturestate
This is something I'd genuinely like to know more about. Ikea sells an
(ostensibly) 100% linen duvet + pillowcase set for $80; aside from the two
sheets, what else makes up the delta?

------
yitchelle
Partially relevant. Bunnie's guide in doing business with electronic factories
and suppliers in Shenzhen.

[http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4585](http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=4585)

------
lazzlazzlazz
Why is the author seemingly afraid of every new experience? Is this normal?

~~~
ethbro
I thought authors' account was fairly genuine, instead of trying to pretend
that Americans on average consider heads, feet, and cartilage desirable
portions of an animal.

That said, from a food perspective I could have done with a bit more detail on
interesting things they ate and a bit less on the differences between American
and foreign McDonald's.

------
TXV
Nice blog post, it makes me remember my early years as a professional in
China. Now as a 27 year old who flies back and forth once every 1.5 months to
manage a team of 3 Chinese developers, I really miss the times when everything
was a discovery and looked so fresh and cool. After a while you get used to it
and start noticing all the bad details. It takes away a lot of the enjoyment
that pushed me there in the first place. The good part is that China always
finds ways to amaze and entertain me.

------
kriro
This seems like a pretty strange road trip with very little business content.
More like a "ZOMG-wow we are in China" (wait you need Visa for that?). I would
have been very suspect and have refused to go on that booked vacation. And
smoking because you don't want to upset someone...strange. Oh yeah we will
just take that click on a bunch of adds thingy..what could possibly go wrong.
ALL IN ALL IT WAS WORTH IT.

------
Michelada
Nice post, but I am disappointed that you did not post the names of the hotels
you stayed at. I would have enjoyed details of _where_ you spent your money.

~~~
b0ner_t0ner
The Hong Kong one is most definitely Ovolo Southside:

[http://needwant.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/03/17.jpeg](http://needwant.com/wp-
content/uploads/2016/03/17.jpeg)

[http://www.35mm.com.ph/wp-
content/uploads/2016/01/Hong_Kong_...](http://www.35mm.com.ph/wp-
content/uploads/2016/01/Hong_Kong_06-1024x683.jpg)

------
camkego
These poor guys, it seems not one nice thing was said about them or their
article. I suspect they will think twice before posting to HN again.

~~~
idra
The article is poorly written and they seem absolutely clueless, have too much
money (most likely from a trust fund set up by daddy) and too little sense.
There's nothing nice to say.

~~~
puranjay
As my grandma used to say, if you can't say anything nice, it's better to not
say anything at all

------
ww520
Fascinating. Sounds like a 2/3 vacation, 1/3 work, but I guess the time was
well spent, as they caught production problems earlier on.

------
nxbtch
Nice post. Quiet true about everything in china. If the labor price is higer
in china, these young man probably will visit laos or vietnam

------
homero
Cringe

