

I didn’t fall in love with coding - mikeleeorg
https://the-pastry-box-project.net/garann-means/2014-july-16

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elmin
To provide a bit of a counterpoint to this post, I would say that coding is a
creative pursuit, and we wouldn't expect an artist or a woodworker to say they
weren't in love with their craft. The only difference is that programming
happens to pay better.

Yes, there are jobs for the rough carpenters of the programming world who just
know how to cut and nail and follow a plan, but the best jobs are always going
to go to the fine craftsmen who devote some significant chunk of their lives
to the pursuit.

~~~
mikeleeorg
Most definitely. Those that are passionate about their craft will put more
pride & spend more time doing it.

I also find it really helpful to maintain friendships with developers outside
of the Silicon Valley/startup world who are basically programming to live (as
opposed to living to program). They provide me with a counter-balance to the
echo-chamber-ish view I sometimes fall into. I have colleagues who will hack
out an awesome weekend project just because they love to code. And I have
colleagues who are admittedly pretty good at programming, but would rather be
building a house or working in their garden. They sometimes encourage me take
a step back and understand the things that truly bring me joy.

~~~
wdewind
> They sometimes encourage me take a step back and understand the things that
> truly bring me joy.

Not only that, most businesses (certainly most startups) would be far better
served early on by having someone who was a good programmer but not in love
with it, but was in love with the business. I'd bet on that setup vs. a
brilliant engineer who doesn't understand (or want to understand) the biz
every time.

------
erokar
I read this as an attempt to de-mystify programming as work. You don’t have to
be a stereotypical geek to enjoy it. You don’t have to dream about code in
your sleep. It doesn’t take a genus to do it and it doesn’t require more
passion than say dentistry.

Many are turned away from programming because of its geek allure. They think
it isn’t for them because they didn’t care for Star Trek. It’s time to rectify
the impression. Programming can be a pragmatic career choice, just as law or
architecture or medicine can. No more, no less.

~~~
slowblood
Ha! I do dream about code when I sleep.

------
digita88
I know a computer science PhD in his early to mid 30s who wished that, if he
could go back to uni would instead study industrial design, but alas he states
that programming pays more and is more stable.

I mean, sure you could some other craft or industry that you don't love or god
forbid dislike (banking, nursing, building homes) so that it can pay the bills
and enable you to buy a house. You don't need to get into programming to do
that. BUT programming enables you to live a certain lifestyle because of its
unique attributes that is part and parcel of the job. The end game here is -
do we live to work OR do we work to live?

------
jasode
>You don’t go around telling people you only code for the money while you
still need a coding job, that’s suicide. You have to say you code for the
challenge at minimum, or the beauty of naked logic or the unlimited power to
create, if you want to really sell it. [...] I am not a sociologist, but I
believe pretty firmly that this is the most fundamental thing keeping tech
from being more diverse. It asks us to fundamentally change how we portray
ourselves, to be programmers first and everything else merely in the last
twenty characters of our twitter bio.

Two observations...

First, I'm not sure why this was submitted to HN since I presume that HN's
demographic _genuinely_ likes/loves to program and they do not wear a fake
mask pretending they do. HN is the wrong audience for this message.

Second, whenever a topic about companies expressing a preference for "
_passionate programmers who also do it as a hobby_ ", many forum posters will
emphatically push back with " _it 's enough I code for 8 hours a day_". What's
unknown is what % of programmers worldwide express that sentiment publicly
among their coworkers (and possibly managers) as opposed to keeping it a
secret.

~~~
adestefan
Then I'm one of the few that hate it. I have no idea how people bang out
another CRUD app in the latest fad language/framework/pattern du jour. I don't
get excited when someone announces a new language. I know C, I know enough
python to get by, but I sure as hell can rip apart a stack down the logic
level if you want me to.

What I do love to do is solve problems. Sometimes the problem is to come up
with a clever algorithm, sometimes it's to fix a piece of broken software,
usually it's figure out how the hell something works. In the end I despise any
time that I actually have to write code.

I know that I'll never get a job because of my programming. I'll never have
any wiz bang open source project to show someone. But in the end I have plenty
of opportunities because I solve problems.

------
ejk314
I would think that if you pursued any job just with an attitude of "get yours
and get out" where you were "entirely motivated by having a good paying job"
you'd be... kind of miserable.

Sure, a girl who loves working at bakery might be struggling to make ends
meet; but if she's also genuinely happy with her career then what does it
matter? Work is where the average person will spend most of their time, so I
just don't think it's worth it to go into a field you hate in the hope that
you can retire early.

~~~
dllthomas
_" Sure, a girl who loves working at bakery might be struggling to make ends
meet; if she's also genuinely happy with her career then what does it
matter?"_

It matters because "struggling to make ends meet" is a lot of stress and can
get in the way of a lot of things. It still might have been a better choice
for her than taking an alternative path that would have exchanged that for a
career she was miserable in, but it still _matters_.

------
koof
It's only recently that I've found (a few) programmers who talk about the
beauty of the work - I think the "get money get out" folks are the vast
majority at the zillions of non-buzzworthy companies.

I smirk a little at the slightly oblivious people who put a ton of gravitas on
throwaway apps, but to me it feels like down to earth people along with people
working on truly exciting things greatly outnumber them.

------
argonaut
An interesting point of comparison is with finance. Most people going into
IB/private equity/etc. make no bones about the fact that they just want to
make money (and "win"). Wanting to just make money is a _positive_ trait.
There are lots of people going into finance (non-quants) that have the
mentality of just getting in, earning millions, then leaving the field in
their thirties.

------
buckbova
> People concerned with collecting a paycheck have excellent work ethics, and
> the industry would benefit from more of them in it.

Typically, no they do not. They may have excellent "butt in seat" metrics, but
that means very little for quality of work.

> If you can fake it for interviews and in order to advance your career,
> you’ll definitely go further, but never feel bad about either faking it or
> not being able to.

If by faking it you mean a little embellishment or studying up before an
interview then that's fine. But I have a good knack for catching phonies. And
once I find you've been dishonest about your experience or knowledge I throw
that resume out and interview is over. Be prepared, honest, and enthusiastic.

Basically with any profession you need to be motivated to excel. I wouldn't
hire a medical assistant who just wanted a paycheck. I'd want someone who
wants to help people, learn and grow.

------
slowblood
Coding as a practice, I love. It's a continuous process of learning while
trying to solve problems.

But work is work. It can be a job. However, as a career, it's easier to move
from one job/environment to another.

------
_random_
A technical debt generator's confession.

~~~
wdewind
Actually, I worked with Garann at Etsy, and she's great. In fact I can think
of numerous occasions in which she paid down organizational technical debt.

She says this in the article:

> I made a very successful career of programming while entirely motivated by
> having a good paying job, and at the risk of being a braggart, I was a good
> programmer.

and she is right.

~~~
_random_
No offense, but it means either you are both indeed great or none of you are,
which one is true I will never know.

~~~
wdewind
How about this: instead of flat out accusing the author of causing technical
debt (essentially an ad-hominem attack), why not disagree with the substance
of her argument. That is: that one does not truly need to be passionate about
this industry to be both successful and good at your job, and that the
assumption that one does is keeping qualified people out of our industry. That
way you don't need to worry about whether or not we are great. It's truly
immaterial.

