
Indian immigrants are tech's new titans - kungfudoi
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-indians-in-tech-20150812-story.html
======
NikhilVerma
This article generalises way too many things for me to be interesting.

"Unlike the people in some cultures, Indians learn to challenge authority" \-
This can't be further from the truth. At the risk of generalising myself I'd
still like to say that Indian culture in general doesn't want anyone to
challenge authority (parents/teachers/bosses) this is something we are taught
as children.

~~~
puranjay
As an Indian, you're spot on. Rebellion is the last thing you see among Indian
youth. Most of my friends still can't tell their parents that they
drink/party/have sex. We are a deeply conservative society and the middle
class expectation is to get a stable job at a known name brand.

~~~
Ollinson
I had a close friend who refused to wear his Patka/Keski Dastaar anymore
(sorry if this is incorrect, I'm going off of images on google) and was nearly
disowned by his family.

The crazy thing is his family wasn't, to my eyes, even particularly religious.

~~~
puranjay
Sometimes, this plays out in hilarious ways. Infosys and TCS, for example, are
well-known companies in India. Tower Research, on the other hand, is not known
at all. A friend got an offer from Tower Research (he went to the same college
as Sundar Pichai), but his relatives were appalled that he would choose it
over a code monkey role at Infosys.

------
kumarm
There is a Reason why Indian Immigrants are CEO's of Companies like Google and
Microsoft rather than founder of Companies like Google and Microsoft.

Current EB2 (For people who have done masters) green card wait time for Indian
Born immigrants is 10 Years (mind you this is for people who have done masters
and would have worked for a company at least a year to start the process). By
the time an Indian Immigrant can legally start a company and work for the
same, he/she has to be atleast 35.

~~~
WWKong
Yup. 12 yrs and still no GC in sight.

------
manibatra
Challenging authority is far from norm in Indian culture. There is just a hint
of this in the current generation. Plus running a company is hardly
challenging any authority.

Taking my example. I am working on a startup, plus doing some freelancing work
to pay the bills. I am constantly pestered by relatives, parents, friends to
get a 9 to 5 stable job. There have been times when I have been told that I
should work instead of staying at home (thank heavens that I am living by
myself) and being on the computer by some friends and relatives. Kind of
funny.

------
cyberjunkie
I think hypocrisy is more our thing, rather than this rebellious, challenging
the authority attitude. I am talking of the vast majority of the country. I
wouldn't use Indians as a way to generalize, because I think most of us lack
passion and interests, the willingness to do something new, to do it
flawlessly. This is why a few Indian immigrants who do extremely well, will
stand out and I think they deserve the respect for it. The rest are there for
the opportunity to make more money, to live a more comfortable life. I do not
think the vast majority of us can ride this 'tech titans' tag.

I'm sure we all are going to react with - hey, I know a lot of rebellious,
passionate people. I agree, I know a lot of people too, but they do not make
up for the big majority we're calling Indian immigrants.

~~~
kamaal
>>I think most of us lack passion and interests

This is not generalization, you are making blanket statements which are
straight untrue. Most people can't chase their passion because, they first
need to bail out of shitty conditions they were born in. Passion and interests
are the luxury of the rich. For vast majority of Indians, they have to undergo
at least two to three generation of slogging to get their kids to college and
a decent day job. This is if you break out of caste problems, poverty and low
income jobs. Else its life as usual.

When your father and grandfather toiled in a farm for their whole lives to get
you a 9 - 5 job, you don't throw it way. Not only would that be disrespectful
to their whole lives. It would also be stupid. Most entrepreneurs fail, if you
are one of them you are gambling three generations of sincere effort in
providing your descendents a good future.

The very fact that some of us complain about things like these shows how far
detached we are from lives of fellow Indians.

------
staunch
The real tech titans will always be founders, not the promoted CEOs of
companies on their descent. People of all cultures should aspire to create
their own new things in the world, not run bureaucracies created by other
people. It may be prestigious and make you rich but that's true of many
terrible jobs.

~~~
comrade1
Microsoft is still one of the largest companies in the world. Adobe. Pepsi.
What, would you have them run uber or something small like that?

~~~
soup10
He's just saying its more impressive to make a ball from scratch and get it
rolling than it is to keep a ball rolling. Extra-ordinarily hard to do either
one imo.

------
dkarapetyan
Isn't this just post-hoc rationalization? I mean what if Germans were running
the show? Wouldn't the article say all the same things with Indians replaced
with Germans? I mean good for all the CEOs but I don't think it has anything
to do with being Indian.

~~~
tikhonj
It's post-hoc rationalization _from a tiny sample_. If this isn't reading
signal in noise, I don't know what is.

------
dropit_sphere
The reaction of anyone, male, female, whatever race or sexual orientation,
should be: "Cool story brah, I have work to do."

A lot of engineers aren't appreciated for the good work they do. But none of
them will benefit from worrying that it's because they're not Indian.

------
ak39
Selection bias is an important factor to consider why emigrant societies are
seen as industrious, innovative and ultimately successful.

If you survived an oppressive homeland government, escaped harsh socio-
economic living conditions, bootstrapped yourself (or your family) out of
illiteracy, invented creative ways to succeed the stowaway journey, brave the
xenophobia of an alien culture, solidified your determination to "stick
around" ... chances are you are already in the group that has the top 5% of
successful leadership across the world.

Not just Indians - you see this with almost every expat society in different
countries.

------
known
We're very argumentative

Indians, as Nobel laureate Amartya Sen tells us, are argumentative by nature
and given the opportunity, we will debate and discuss till the cows at home.
Jean-Christophe Lettelier got a taste of this as soon as he took charge at
L'Oreal India last year. The meetings he conducted would go on interminably
with everyone going in circles.

"Maybe it's because of an inductive approach to understanding things, but
Indians make things more complex than they really are," he says. "I value the
depth of thinking, but sometimes I have to just close the topic. Else there is
complete chaos."

Mitsubishi's Makoto Kitai is another expat CEO who has had a hard time
conducting meetings. "Japanese are very good listeners. We as a culture never
speak out of turn which ensures that our suggestion would be asked every time.
My Indian colleagues, on the other hand, are very ardent speakers and are
always impatient when it comes to an opportunity to articulate their views,"
he says. We also have a propensity to get into time consuming discussions just
about anywhere.

As Tetsuya Takano, MD of Ricoh India points out: "In India it's easy to form a
discussion group. You only have to ask someone something and suddenly five
people are around you and you can discuss anything. The preferable subject is
politics."

[https://justpaste.it/Argumentative](https://justpaste.it/Argumentative)

------
general_failure
Off my head - Softbank, Sandisk, Cognizant, NetApp and pepsi ceo's are indian
as well.

------
timwaagh
well.. i have positive experience working for an indian company. they were
pretty relaxed and kind and let people do their thing without interference.
they also let me in when nobody else would. It's definitely not by chance they
succeed.

------
known
We Have Petitioned US/UK To Stop Issuing Visas To Indians, The Most Racist
People On Earth;

[https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/stop-issuing-
visa...](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/stop-issuing-visas-people-
india-most-racist-people-earth)

[https://www.change.org/p/president-of-usa-and-prime-
minister...](https://www.change.org/p/president-of-usa-and-prime-minister-of-
uk-stop-issuing-visas-to-indians-the-most-racist-people-on-earth)

------
satyavh
'that a generation of Indians has benefited from upbringings in a culture
that, at its best, values humility, close-knit family ties and respect for all
walks of life.'

Lol, how does that match with India's caste system? So much respect for lower
castes, a huge gap between poor and rich...so much humility...

Probably a corporate environment very much matches a caste system, hence
Indians are the most suitable for running such an environment.

And lets not forget, the author is Indian.

------
walkingolof
How many % of the world population does Indian make up ? I say its just
starting to reflect that.... nothing to see here..

~~~
flipmonk
Nope. China, Brazil, Russia are all humongous % populations - disproportionate
representation.

~~~
cmarschner
As is Nigeria.

------
known
Sundar Pichai is a
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmin)
They've mastered the art of manipulating and using
people/professionals/programmers for past 2000 years;

Good luck to Google;

------
ild
I know only one tech titan, and he is South African; the other one was half-
Lebanese, but he is dead now.

~~~
walkingolof
half-syrian...

------
known
You cannot survive/succeed in a corporate world unless you're a sociopath.

------
skrebbel
I get that positively singling out a disadvantaged minority is not racist, but
still, who cares about the race or home culture of the CEOs of Microsoft and
Google? Isn't the whole reason these guys are able to get these roles
_because_ the tech scene as a whole doesn't care much where you're from? (as
long as you have a penis, of course)

~~~
1971genocide
It matters because it a lot of these people didn't grow up or studied
primarily in India or in Indian Universities.

They only ended up doing a Msc or Phd in the US as a way to enter the US
labour market. Not always but often enough.

Most of that education was paid for by Indian taxpayers. So I think its unfair
to Indian taxpayers.

I cringe whenever I hear people talk about "entrepreneurship" and "free-
enterprise" as the reason for silicon valley's success.

You cannot start a electronics company when your country's philosophy is a
darwinist one of man eating man.

Silicon Valley is lucky that they get a free supply of highly specialized
labour from the rest of the world that they didn't pay for.

~~~
mc32
Lots of large international cities have sizeable numbers of expats who got
educated back home, Singapore, London, Hong Kong, etc. None of the home
countries would cry "brain drain" in seriousness.

If they did they'd be wrong to say that. Make it attractive to stay home and
on balance people will. Stifle opportunity and people will leave.

And conversely, Europe and north america don't cry, third world, you're off
loading your undereducted and you have us foot their education, etc.

People go where they see opportunity. Countries allow immigration of poor if
it makes economic sense to them. And of course they welcome highly skilled,
for the most part though quotas exist to appease the professionals in host
country. The working classes enjoy no such protection, again, because economy.

------
comrade1
There are 1.2B Indians and 300M Americans. And there are strong ties between
the Indian middle class and the u.s. In education and business. The indian
middle class is around 300M. It's surprising that there aren't more Indians in
high corporate roles considering how many there are in universities, for
example.

Something that is disturbing long-term is the low number of Chinese nationals
in corporate roles in the u.s. China is arguably ahead of India socially and
economically. They have 500M in the middle class. But we don't have strong
ties with mainland China like we do with India. We run the risk of continuing
to diverge.

~~~
sdrothrock
Couldn't it be that the perception of China being ahead of India
socially/economically is why you don't see as many Chinese nationals in
corporate roles in the US?

I've talked to a number of Indian workers in IT here in Japan who've said that
they'd do "anything" not to have to go back to their family homes. But Chinese
IT workers I know don't seem to mind the idea; in fact, they usually go back a
couple of times a year.

If you replace "Chinese nationals" with a first-world European country, does
it sound disturbing? e.g.: "the low number of German nationals in corporate
roles in the u.s." It doesn't to me.

------
anti-shill
we desperately need to increase immigration from india in order to save our
economy

------
known
Satya Nadella/Sundar Pichai are NOT Entrepreneurs;

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
unreasonable man." \--George Bernard Shaw

------
known
Four degrees in hand, he still cleans sewers due to Caste system in India

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Four-
degrees-...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Four-degrees-in-
hand-he-still-cleans-Mumbais-sewers/articleshow/48129319.cms)

------
known
Indian regime owes reparations to 300 million Untouchables for 2000 years of
Caste system;

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shashi-tharoor/caste-wont-
disa...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shashi-tharoor/caste-wont-disappear-
india_b_6257354.html)

------
known
Indians immigrants have mastered the art of

What you know is NOT important. Who you know is very important.

[http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
nation...](http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
nation/seventh-pay-commission-may-bump-up-salaries-but-ias-has-
institutionalized-the-caste-system/articleshow/48128107.cms)

------
known
49% of children dropping out of school are Untouchables and 25% are Muslims

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/49-of-children-
out-...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/49-of-children-out-of-
school-are-SC/STs-25-are-Muslims-Survey/articleshow/48230596.cms)

[https://www.change.org/p/independent-nation-
for-300-million-...](https://www.change.org/p/independent-nation-
for-300-million-india-s-untouchables)

------
codeonfire
So we're doing racist fluff pieces now? Look, generalizations about a race of
people, positive or negative, are just wrong. We are going to need an
international code of conduct for the industry because people from outside the
US obviously have no problem making gross generalizations like "Indians are
just better in tech." Obviously it is unprofessional for Americans to say
"Americans are the best at tech" or "Whites make the best programmers." People
from other countries are getting away with WAY too much fucking bullshit.

~~~
flipmonk
Relevant:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M)
:)

~~~
codeonfire
Oh BTW, India has 13.9 million slaves right now.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_India)

------
codeonfire
Your point? Are you also trying to make a point about the supremacy of the
Indian race/nationality/culture?

------
known
Wish they do not inject 'covert' racism into your society
[http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-
map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/)

------
naturalethic
Tell us more of your 4th grade social studies stories.

~~~
dang
We've banned this account for repeatedly posting uncivil, unsubstantive
comments to HN.

~~~
anti-shill
it seemed quite substantive to me...of course, it goes against the mainstream
politically correct paradigm, too.

------
known
India follows the "Sheep Herd" mentality. The whole country's economy is based
on people getting into "Profitable" domains mostly following the success of a
pioneer in the field. The most recent example of this ideology is the
"Business Process Outsourcing" industry. New BPO units are propping up here
and there at a dime a dozen leading to a quality deterioration in the final
deliverable. This process will continue till a saturation level is reached and
then they will wait till another "Killer" domain picks up momentum. Till then
India will be in a so called "Calm Period" where nothing great and major takes
place.

------
thomasmarriott
Titans give us 0 to 1.

I'm waiting.

------
Maro
Or, it could be a coincidence :)

------
jsudhams
I think the key is this "They have my values yet all the American advantages.
They can achieve the same as my generation at much younger age." Most of these
guys have done their masters in respectable places and their experience is in
USA.

The way the US top 10 schools collaborate with Industry is yet to come in
India though it is starting slowly. But I see Indian companies still family
owned business though it is traded so working in Indian company even thinking
that you will be the super boss is not there. It is going one of the major
owners kin.

