

Clear explanation of the Apache/Oracle fight - nl
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1861002&cid=34180996

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kls
Yep that pretty much sums it up. If Apache leaves that would be bad news for
Oracle. There is a good deal of Java products that use Apache libs is some
shape of form. I would venture to guess that it has to be near 80% of apps at
least. I can't think of a single Java project that I have worked on that did
not use Apache libs. They are even in the app servers IBM and Oracle's. If
their is one group that I can think of that could kill Java with their absence
Apache would have to be the one that comes to mind. While it may not kill it,
it would be the shot that send a mass of developers out looking for the next
big thing.

~~~
nl
Pulling out of the JCP doesn't mean that Apache will stop doing Java projects,
though.

But I agree with your point - less involvement by Apache in Java is a bad
thing.

~~~
kls
Obviously it is just speculation but, I think it means that Apache sunsets
official Java, takes there own path and diverges. Without the TCK there is no
way to guarantee that it works. Which if it happens, will fragment the market
onto two separate JVM's. At that point, why not call it something else and
move on. I know if it happened I would be hitching to the Apache trial as
opposed to the Oracle one, if they diverge I would feel more comfortable on
the Apache side. I have already been bit by two Oracle decisions since
Acquiring Sun (Killing OpenSSO, being the one I am most PO'ed about). I would
not stick around for a 3rd if they push Apache out. I have to imagine there
would be quite a few others that feel the same.

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fleitz
Just fork it.

The JCP is a hindrance to Java. It allows suits to make all the decisions,
with out the JCP Java might have working generics, or _gasp_ closures. Maybe
checked exceptions can be tossed in the trash too.

As 'new Java' starts gaining features and mind share, 'old java' will start to
fade off into the sunset, it's market share slowly eroded like Linux did to
Solaris. Soon, it will be more important that it works with new java than is
certified 'old java'. I mean seriously, does ANYONE care about POSIX
compliance these days? No. It's just about whether it works on Linux / FreeBSD
/ OS X.

They should start introducing breaking changes immediately, and get Google on
board. Wouldn't it suck for Oracle if GAE didn't quite work with 'old java'?

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mhansen
You can't because Oracle has the patents covering technologies that are needed
to implement Java.

~~~
JoachimSchipper
Yes, but you get an automatic patent grant if you use OpenJDK; I presume this
grant remains valid after you've applied a large number of patches.

But yes, you can't "start over".

~~~
wmf
Politically, Apache cannot use OpenJDK. Their only option is to just give up
on Java.

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anonymous246
I know I'm in the minority, but Sun/Oracle's position is hardly surprising.
It's their toys, and hence you play by their rules. Asking BigCo's to pay to
use Java on mobile devices is hardly an onerous request. I fail to see how
Apache's grandstanding to force/beg Snoracle for free mobile Java benefits me,
Joe Blow the lonely programmer.

Apache keeps talking about "contractual obligation", but I haven't seen
anything solid about that. If they're so sure, why don't they sue to get the
TCK?

Can anybody shed some light for me? Thanks.

Btw, I don't use Java, don't care for it, and hope I never have to deal with
it. So my interest is purely academic.

~~~
wmf
_It's their toys, and hence you play by their rules._

For over a decade Sun has been saying that Java is some kind of open,
community-driven standard. Apache is simply calling them on _their own PR_.

