

EU Parliament supports the possible suspension of U.S. data sharing agreements - rlpb
http://www.zdnet.com/eu-votes-to-support-suspending-u-s-data-sharing-agreements-including-passenger-flight-data-7000017677/

======
tehwalrus
Good.

I'm also glad they're investigating the criminality of the UK government - I
had assumed they would get away with it, rather like extraordinary rendition,
because they didn't take the data _directly_. A big fat fine for Westminster
could be just what the doctor ordered here (and I say that as a UK taxpayer.)

Now we just need similar investigations into the NSA under the 4th Amendment -
I wonder what the US is waiting for...

~~~
alan_cx
Hmmm, all that will do is fuel the stupid debate we in the UK have over being
in Europe at all. Personally I think the EU should haul us over the coals, not
just a fine, but actual sanctions. However, I'm not sure the EU really has the
balls to do that. And frankly I don't want to give that nasty UKIP bunch any
fuel what so ever.

An issue I see is that actually the UK is more in to this that even the US.
Might not have the depth and scope, but certainly the intention, with out even
the fig leaf of a constitution. American citizens have some rights to work
with, we dont. When you get down to it, we are facilitating the US spying on
the EU, as we seem to be some sort of gateway hub between the EU and the US,
and we, for some reason I do not understand, favor the US over Europe. While
much of the embarrassment is on the US, the Snowden lark puts the UK in a very
exposed piggy in the middle position where we might get forced to pick sides.
The US can take care of its self, but the UK could be left deservedly
politically stranded.

On the other hand, the EU has a lot of its own problems and Im not sure it has
the motivation to pick a proper fight with the UK. All we'll probably get is
some posturing to appease who ever is complaining, and normal BS will resume.

I have to say, given all that, it rather amuses me that a few years ago Obama
was telling the UK it should look more to Europe than the US. Heh, I suppose
now we know why: We are the US agent in Europe.

I have to wonder if long term the Snowden leaks are more damaging to the UK
than the US. People will still deal with the US because of its economic and
military power, neither of which apply to the UK.

~~~
tehwalrus
If we're "forced to pick sides", I don't think we'll pick the US. The
government might want us to, but all it takes is a list of the stuff we all
hate about US foreign policy - Drones, Asymmetrical extradition (and Gary
McKinnon), Guantanamo Bay, etc etc. That stuff has no mirror in the EU, all
they're trying to do is get us to obey our own laws.

I hope the EU has the guts to give us a short, sharp shock - or I fear your
last hypothesis, about UK isolation, may be accurate.

~~~
junto
The UK media is owned by people who have a vested interest in keeping the UK
on the European fringes. The US-UK relationship will remain 'special'. Only a
large amount of negative public opinion could change that and the UK media
controls public opinion. QED...

Freedom to protest and demonstrate has been steadily eroded in the UK. The
police have long term spies within pressure groups such as Occupy, green
issues and animal well-fare.

Remember that an estimated 1 million UK citizens marched in the Stop the War
anti-war protest [1]. Worldwide on Feb 15th 2003, millions more.

These protests had no effect.

1\. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-
war_prot...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-
war_protest#United_Kingdom)

~~~
McP
I'm genuinely curious, who and how do those people have a "vested interest in
keeping the UK on the European fringes"?

~~~
arethuza
I'm not so clear on the why, but the who is pretty easy:

[http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/editor-blog/162/just-
why-...](http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/editor-blog/162/just-why-does-
rupert-murdoch-dislike-europe-so-much)

~~~
junto
The why:

    
    
      In a separate article for this website Professor Antony
      Glees wrote: "Sky News itself is having a field day with
      the eurozone crisis. Of course, Murdoch never liked the
      euro or the EU for that matter." Murdoch's anti-EU stance
      could quite possibly stem from the desire to avoid
      regulation of his media empire, from Brussels. We know for
      sure that he had plans for even greater penetration and
      influence in the UK media market. I mean, whether you are
      a Europhile or a Eurosceptic, do we really believe that
      Murdoch is interested only in defending British institutions
      like the pound rather than expanding News Corporation's
      portfolio in mainland Europe and beyond?
    

Read more: [http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/editor-blog/162/just-
why-...](http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/editor-blog/162/just-why-does-
rupert-murdoch-dislike-europe-so-much#ixzz2YdqXJibz)

------
michielvoo
But EC is not suspending any data sharing deals (yet), which could have huge
economic effects since it could mean that flights to the US are grounded. But
it is my understanding that the US would be the one that would order flights
to be grounded if the EU no longer meets the requirements of the data sharing
agreement.

~~~
smackay
You know, I'd really like to see what would happen when "push came to shove".
It would either tear-off the fig-leaf of terrorism or the rest of the world
would really understand that the US government has developed into a paranoid,
frightened, bully.

However, more likely is that some deal would be struck (behind closed doors,
of course) that would allow business to continue as usual - shutting down most
if not all transatlantic commerce would be a gargantuan step for anyone to
take. I don't think that would change the long term direction this issue is
heading in though. We're either going to end up with court supervised limited
snooping and more transparent governments or an all-pervasive surveillance
state where absolutely everything is going to be hoovered up and stored for
later use.

UPDATE: One of the goals of the European Union is to avoid war on the
continent. With the road of economic and political integration riddled with
pot-holes of various sizes perhaps the new direction to unite everybody is
personal freedom - freedom of movement, freedom of speech, etc. Europe
certainly has the history to justify why these are laudable goals. With
partner countries such as Iceland (which has Europe's longest running
parliament) showing the necessary leadership, the time has come for Old Europe
to become Bold Europe.

~~~
pcrh
>Old Europe to become Bold Europe.

The country most likely to lead any such move would be Germany; Germans are
today extremely well-inoculated against disingenuous reassurances by
governments.

~~~
1337biz
Putting Germany and bold in a sentence seems still to go down badly across
many European nations. Some might even suggest that (the/a) purpose of the
European idea was to keep a reunified Germany from going bold again.

~~~
Dewie
What, really? Is there really a tangible fear that Germany would blow up in
everyones faces again, _still today_?

~~~
nhaehnle
Some would say that it has already happened. Germany's behavior of pushing
austerity everywhere and depressing German wages has played and still plays a
significant role in causing and prolonging the economic depression that a
number of countries in the south of the Eurozone are currently in.

It's not in-your-face as a war is, but does that really matter for the people
who suffer from it?

------
ipsin
It's worth noting that this is a non-binding resolution, in case it wasn't
clear from the article's title:

 _" the Commission now has the authority from the Parliament to suspend PNR
and TFTP, but it falls at the Commission's discretion. Resolutions passed by
the Parliament are not legally binding,"_

~~~
nhaehnle
This is a very important point. Democracy is really lacking at a European
level, and a large part of that is that the Parliament has almost no real
power.

Whether it is _sufficient_ to give the EU Parliament real power is
questionable, but if the EU is to become a proper democracy, then giving real
power to the parliament is at least _necessary_.

------
tommi
Good news albeit won't make a big difference for United States. Let's get rid
of the SWIFT data sharing while we are it, it's not U.S.'s business.

~~~
flyinRyan
Get rid of all the financial data passing to the US! Fuck them, they were the
absolute worst player in the financial crisis. How dare they demand that
everyone send them all the details of almost all financial dealings.

~~~
Vivtek
Yeah, when they don't use _any_ of it against bankers or embezzlers - just
against online poker players and marijuana buyers.

------
eliasmacpherson
Yesterday, whether this vote would pass was in serious doubt. Now the doubt
remains whether it will be put into effect.

------
iuguy
Please note that this is not that the EU supports suspending data sharing
agreements, this is simply that the parliament will support it if the EC
supports, which it probably won't.

------
seferphier
This is great. Finally some consequence to NSA's actions against the
government directly given that all the checks and balances are not working.

For example: There are now secret courts and secret judgments that lacks
binding power (NSA ignores them anyways). Despite the media revealing more and
more lies, the congress does not seem to care (half of them did not attend the
NSA talks). The rest that do have little power to stop them or even talk about
them at all.

~~~
diminoten
Congress doesn't care because most Americans don't care.

We _want_ our government to do these things.

------
leke
The UK warn that closing trade negotiations could cause the loss of over
400,000 jobs, but must also realise due to corporate spying, it might have
cost the UK much more than 400,000 jobs.

~~~
diminoten
How?

~~~
leke
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage)

~~~
diminoten
That doesn't explain how at all.

------
ra
_" Should the Commission decide it necessary to suspend the data sharing
agreement of passenger details — including personal and sensitive individual
data — it could ultimately lead to the grounding of flights between the EU and
the U.S."_

It's simply not going to happen.

------
Fuxy
They took their sweet time i was beginning to think their all a bunch of
pussies. I'm all in favor of this even if it puts European citizens in a
slightly difficult situation with some potential jobs on the line. Europe
needs to have boundaries and spying on its citizens should be unacceptable.

------
thomasjames
Is the irony of this not lost on anyone else? In light of recent events it
appears they'll be able to get the data anyway, whether or not it is sent
over.

------
Qantourisc
Good to hear something good from the EU !

------
schoash
they are only supporting? They should immediately cancel them.

------
wwhitman
Hopefully this will make it easy for the US to stop paying for defense of the
EU and spend that money at home.

~~~
richtr
Do you have any sources for this bizarre statement?

Today, any excessive US presence in Europe is most likely a symptom of over-
reaching US Foreign Policy rather than something the EU requires.

~~~
wwhitman
Fine, then we can close all EU bases, save a ton of money and you can defend
your own shipping routes, I'm sure you will be fine.

~~~
shubb
US bases outside of America are vital to the US if it wants to operate on
other continents[1]. The bases in Germany for instance were used for medical
care of casualties from Iraq and Afganistan. It's fair to say that without
such bases, the US probably could not operate in the way it does.

The US has aquirred it's bases for different historic reasons. Some, in the
pacific, were leased off the UK for money. Others, like the bases in Japan and
Germany, were forced on countries that lost a war with the US, and as few who
fought in or supported that war are still alive, you can see why those
countries might consider whether they benefit from them.

It is hard to separate beneficial activities that the US does, like the
protection of shipping as it travels past East Africa, from it's pursuit of
strategic objectives, such as rivalry for dominance in Africa with the
Chinese, and middle eastern power blocks. And in addition, there is a
legitimate counter terrorism aspect, which probably benefits the US more than
other countries.

The thing is that the US had a great deal of control over Western Europe,
imposed by force in the 1940s, and declining since then, and this was achieved
as part of a struggle between the US and USSR, where European countries were
really pawns. As the power declines (in part due to increasing strength and
unity between EU countries), it's hard to imagine that the US will be able to
maintain it's bases.

I think you should try to see it more dispassionately. There is a strategic
game, where people lose and win, often in different ways at the same time. As
American power declines from it's peak this century, it may be more
comfortable to view it as a neccesary horror, rather than America's god
appointed role, as a lot of Europeans view their own countries real politique.

[1] [http://blog.heritage.org/2013/04/26/u-s-military-bases-in-
eu...](http://blog.heritage.org/2013/04/26/u-s-military-bases-in-europe-are-
vital-to-americas-security/)

~~~
wwhitman
I truly hope the EU decides to get rid of US bases as it will make it harder
for the US to get into these ridiculous wars. As for American power, the
problem is not that it is declining, the problem is that it is so far ahead
that it is a joke. There is no balancing power. Yes China is growing but it is
hardly a peer. The EU should really be the balancing force but it sure doesn't
look likely.

~~~
pekk
"Balance of powers" is neither a moral imperative, nor a historically
effective way of preventing war.

