
How American Giant created the best sweatshirt known to man. - nivektric
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/12/american_giant_hoodie_this_is_the_greatest_sweatshirt_known_to_man.single.html#pagebreak_anchor_2
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dewitt
The real innovation was getting Slate to run the infomercial.

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sharkweek
seriously, I can't figure out how this isn't a commercial post

~~~
stephengillie
WHY is this the "best sweatshirt known to man"?

The article doesn't provide any information about American Giant's
manufacturing or retail processes except that it's all done in the US.

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redidas
It does if you read the whole thing. Here's one reason listed:

 _Why is this hoodie so amazing? First, it’s made of heavyweight cotton. Most
other sweatshirts on the market today are made of some kind of blend, usually
cotton and polyester._

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danso
Some speculative numbers at the end of the article:

> * American Giant pays the factory about $25 to $30 each, and then it sells
> it to you for $60 and up. Compare this to a model under which you’d buy
> standard sweatshirt at the mall—say, this $58 Levi’s crewneck. The
> department store likely buys that shirt from Levi’s for about $30. Levi’s,
> in turn, pays the factory about $12 to $15 for it, and the factory likely
> makes it for $6. So you’re paying 10 times what the shirt costs to make, and
> Levi’s is earning $18 per garment. With American Giant, you’re paying five
> times what the shirt costs, and American Giant is earning $35. Since there’s
> no retail middleman, everyone does better under the American Giant model—the
> clothing company, the factory workers, and you.*

Seems like a lot of cost-savings are actually from throwing out the middleman.

Also, I doubt this is the best-sweatshirt known to man...There must be better
ones out in mass circulation. $80 is not very much for a heavy-duty piece of
clothing...In NY, high-end stores sell plain white crews for as much as $200
(though admittedly some of it has to do with superficial branding).

I'd expect an upscale mass-produced hoodie, in terms of durability, comfort,
look, and neat features, would be at least $200, if made in America.

~~~
DanBC
> I'd expect an upscale mass-produced hoodie, in terms of durability, comfort,
> look, and neat features, would be at least $200, if made in America.

May I ask why? where's the cost coming from?

Assuming great quality US grown organic cotton; best quality YKK zips; US
minimum wage workers; good quality control; distribution and taxes - I still
can't get it to $200 without huge markups. (There's nothing wrong with huge
markups. Added value is great if you can get it.)

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siculars
I gotta say American Giant gear is pretty great. I am a big made in America
fan and when I first heard about them I bought one of their half zip
sweatshirts. Order number 212 or so. Came with a signed thank you card from
the CEO. The quality is excellent and the look is classic with a great fit. I
actually just received my Black Friday order yesterday, the day that Slate
article came out. They were out of one of the colors I ordered and I got a
hand written note from one of their customer service people. Great stuff,
great customer service, great story. Go get some of their gear.

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binarymax
To the naysayers: I'd buy it. Would have bought it then and there but they
didn't have my size in stock. I would gladly pay $80 for a garment that looks
good and lasts more than a couple years - especially if I don't have to go to
the mall to get it! When they get my size in stock and I get my order I
hopefully wont be disappointed.

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mosesschwartz
This article is an interesting read, and fits well with the recent theme of
insourcing articles on HN.

However, the author gushes so much about the quality of these shirts that the
article feels like advertising. Does anyone have any experience with the
brand? Are their products as good as the author makes them sound?

~~~
mhb
Their web site says free shipping both ways and satisfaction guaranteed, so
not that hard to find out.

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Patient0
This has all the hallmarks of a "PR" story along the lines of:
<http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html>

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ericdykstra
High quality clothing is not a revelation, but direct-to-consumer internet
clothing operations are a great business. Bonobos (<http://bonobos.com>)
started out with this model (but now does sell on other outlets), and Everlane
(<http://everlane.com/>) is doing an awesome job bringing extremely high
quality basics for a very reasonable price by only selling through their own
site, and owning the whole thing soup to nuts.

American Giant might do fine, but high quality online-online direct-to-
customer clothing stores is not groundbreaking.

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Lockyy
Can't browse Everlane without signing in with facebook or making an account.

What a great way to put people off. The "shop now" button just brings to login
window again.

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fwdbureau
the 'esc' key is your friend :-)

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r00fus
ESC + timing. You have to click "shop now" and before the facebook/login
prompt comes up, you need to ESC.

Off-putting to say the least. I don't expect high-quality brands to force a
membership check before I even examine their products.

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ck2
An $80 sweatshirt? That's considered a "made in the usa success" ? Are they
remotely serious?

Put a 10 year replacement warranty on it and maybe.

Otherwise I am sticking to my $8 sweatshirt.

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pavel_lishin
In the article, they mention:

> But there is really no comparison between American Giant’s hoodie and the
> competition. It looks better and feels substantially more durable—Winthrop
> says it will last a lifetime.

But I don't know if that's a legally binding statement of any kind. (Though I
imagine that if I bought one, and it fell apart, and I made a big-enough stink
on a blog, they'd send me a new one just to shut me up.)

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mc32
I wonder about that also. None the less, if they don't offer an actual life-
time warranty, they might look at a retailer like REI who accept returns
unconditionally. Yes, they're not the cheapest 'outdoor' supplier, but when
you take back your ragged tent or whatnot, they've always, well, so far, come
correct.

I'm up for a new hooded sweatshirt. I plan on giving myself one of these for
xmas. My 40 dollar versions from Gap, etc, usually last two years, so if this
lasts 4, I'm even, if more, I'll be more than happy and would not feel
'cheated' out of the 'lifetime' statement.

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sheraz
The title of the Article misses the real innovation. The real gem of the
article is telling the story of how manufacturers now go direct to public via
the internet, thereby cutting out he middlemen.

I am an advisor to a company that enables this very model, and it works very,
very well. Essentially we provide the website, marketing, customer service,
and logistics from manufacturer-to-customer.

It appears that is what American Giant has found as well. Good for them.

~~~
gxs
You know, things don't exist in a vacuum.

I don't have time to get into specifics, but there is a REASON why channel
sales exist. There is a reason you may sometimes want to outsource this to
people who specialize in marketing, customer service, or logistics.

As these companies you advise grow in size, you will see why. I'm not saying
you don't provide value - I'm sure you do. I'm just tired of hearing this on
HN - that a startup can do it all and all these other companies are fools that
aren't in on the secret.

~~~
sheraz
Agreed -- channel sales work where you don't have that expertise (ie -
government, oil-gas, etc). However, my points addresses direct-to-individuals
is where this model works well.

I think you read more into my comment that was really there. We certainly are
not a fit for every manufacturer out there. But this much is true - Like it or
not, the internet beat a path to the manufacturers' door. Many of them are
still not prepared to handle that. It never fit their model. That is where we
fit in.

If the customer is already st your door, then why not capture the sale? Why
send them off to a re-seller? That is a bad consumer experience.

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ender7
I know it may seem strange to pay top dollar for a hoodie, but here in Boston
a high quality, durable, and warm garment that you can take with you anywhere
is a real comfort.

My current hoodie is the Katahdin Iron Works Heavyweight:
[http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/51722?page=katahdin-iron-
work...](http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/51722?page=katahdin-iron-works-
heavyweight-sweatshirt-hooded)

It retails for a similar price and was worth every penny. The AG hoodie is not
designed for such cold temperatures, but I would probably be getting one if I
lived in NYC (and may still get one anyway, as a liner or just for warmer
temperatures).

~~~
jalanco
Definitely. I've got that same Katahdin and liked it so much I bought one for
my daughter. It's got those little mesh/velcro pockets inside the pockets to
keep your keys and such. A little warm for Dallas where I live, but when it's
really cold I've loving it.

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Zolomon
This is how the website looked in February:
[http://web.archive.org/web/20110207234611/http://american-
gi...](http://web.archive.org/web/20110207234611/http://american-giant.com/)

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zalew
> It looks better and feels substantially more durable—Winthrop says it will
> last a lifetime.

who needs a sweatshirt to last a lifetime? when was the last time you wore a
10yr old piece of clothing outside of your own house?

you buy $79 hoodies/shirts for the brand and current trendy design, not to
pass on to your children.

~~~
jimmyjazz14
I have owned and worn several pieces of clothing for more than ten years. Some
styles are just classics. I find it odd that one would deride a company for
attempting to produce a quality product.

~~~
zalew
I see most people argue the fact that something can be of quality or that you
technically _can_ wear old clothes. My point was, current modern fashion
empires (Zara, HM, etc.) are popular because they offer fashionable items
often of random/poor quality (notice 'because' not 'despite'). Buy cheap, look
good for the season, throw it away. One or two levels higher you got all the
Tommy, Polo, Lacoste, etc. where you upgrade for the brand and better quality
(I know it's still slave labor, but the quality _is_ better). People buy
clothes to look good, and buy the ones that look good in their affordable
price range. It's how it works, and somehow I believe people wanting to buy a
hoodie 'for lifetime' are a vast minority, especially in the hoodie target
group. Yeah, I own a jacket which was cool 4 years ago, is cool now, and maybe
will be still cool in the next 3 years if I don't destroy it, but durability
is IMHO a weak selling point for an newborn apparel company who positions
itself in the price range of the lower-end designer brand clothes.

I hope I clarified my opinion a bit, I'm not against quality, I just doubt it
will work in the long run for the reasons above.

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rmrfrmrf
I'm not sure what makes me more upset, the fact that this hoodie costs $80, or
the fact that this very kind of story is eaten up by desperate wannabe
20-somethings that are brainwashed into thinking that they deserve the "very
best."

~~~
54mf
I think everyone deserves the very best. Why don't you think so? And how did
20-somethings come up?

Personally, I'd rather pay $80 for a hoodie that lasts 10 years than $8 for 1
hoodie a year. Less waste, less exploitative labor, shorter shipping distances
(not riding a cargo ship from a Chinese/Taiwanese/etc factory), and a better
looking and feeling garment.

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johnnymonster
The only problem with this company is that all their stuff is out of stock!

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pavel_lishin
> When you wear this hoodie, you’ll wonder why all other clothes aren’t made
> this well.

And then I'll realize that it's because I'm not going to pay $80 for every
piece of clothing I own.

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Aloisius
I'm surprised they are only doing men's clothing. There seem to be far less
men willing to pay for well made or high end clothing than women even though
(from my experience), they tend to wear the same clothes longer.

Then again, even I don't really understand the quality difference of clothes
made at discount places. How long will an Old Navy sweatshirt last? Or pants?

~~~
joonix
Women don't care as much about quality because they're more concerned about
fashion. There's no point in buying something that will last 15 years if it'll
be out of style next year. Thus, the more successful approach right now is
that of very up to date fashions combined with mediocre quality and sold at an
affordable price. This is what Zara is doing so well and why its founder is
one of the richest men in the world. Other examples are H&M and Forever 21.

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eduardordm
I don't find $80 exactly expensive and I'm sure that's a nice product. Yet,
it's amazing how prone to simple manipulation people are. You see, that's just
a hoodie.

Example:

"He also used heavy-gauge thread for all the seams, creating connections that
won’t fray."

First, who doesn't? Second, heavy-gauge threads are not more or less expensive
than regular, this isn't thread count.

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NateDad
"He’s making clothes entirely in the United States, and he’s doing so at costs
that aren’t prohibitive"

$80 for a zip up hoodie is prohibitive. Make it $30 and we're talking. That's
still almost double what you'd pay in Walmart or Old Navy, but if it's good,
I'll take it. $80? No way.

~~~
krschultz
It's not really prohibitive. I currently have 6 hoodies with logos on them
that were over $50. Most of them are snowboard companies, 2 are colleges. I've
probably owned another half dozen similar ones in the past.

I enjoy wearing them for reasons that have nothing to with function. Does it
keep me any warmer than one you get at Walmart? Of course not.

There are certainly people that will pay $80 to make a statement that they
wear 'the best possible' clothing.

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unculture
"Since there’s no retail middleman, everyone does better under the American
Giant model—the clothing company, the factory workers, and you."

Everyone except the retail workers.

~~~
Shorel
Good.

They add no value whatsoever.

