
How to explain to a layperson why a developer should not be interrupted? (2011) - nwrk
http://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/46252/how-to-explain-a-layperson-why-a-developer-should-not-be-interrupted-while-neck
======
usernam
Concentration should be familiar to anyone having done any sort of higher
grade education. Or skilled work. Martial arts. Music. Even several art forms.

This is not something specific to programming, _at all_. I'm not sure why "the
zone" and specific euphemisms are used in programming and being reposted, as
if concentration was specific to programming itself (and I say that as a
programmer).

Consider this thought: a layperson not understanding what concentration is all
about speaks _volumes_ about his background.

And I'll add: sadly.

~~~
refurb
Agreed. The question comes across as a little out of touch. Does the OP think
a blue collar worker doesn't understand being in the "zone"?

~~~
4258HzG
I would guess 'management' would be the more likely target. In jobs like sales
and administration, being able to rapidly switch focus to what just came up is
advantageous. The people on the manufacturing floor or operations I have
worked with have the same issues with being interrupted during their work,
though it's often an engineer that's the culprit. (Managers can quantify 'blue
colar' productivity losses easier.)

~~~
adrianratnapala
The in such situations, engineers often are the managers.

For example I asked an engineer uncle of mine what kind of salary to expect
when moving back to Australia. He immediately started talking about middle-
manager compensation.

------
chrisdone
I don't think you can "explain" to people that you need to concentrate, if
you've already told them in ten different ways, then they know what you think
you need, and either (1) don't care about your needs, in which case you are
doomed, or (2) they see in your actions that you still do your job anyway, so
it can't be that bad. The fact is, for most of us, even if we are interrupted,
we still _do_ get the job done. Just not as comfortably or in such detail as
we'd like.

I've been through the "explaining" phase of trying to help my spouse, who
cares a lot about my ability to do my job, and yet is a prolific interrupter,
"get it". It hasn't worked for me. It leads to bitterness and arguments.

The healthy solution: If you need peace and quiet to concentrate, like me, get
yourself your own space. Start going to a different room to concentrate, or a
co-working space (if you work from home). Depending on your job, you might
only need a certain percentage of the day for solid concentration.

~~~
mtw
I find coworking spaces can be worse, especially if you are the kind of
outgoing person who's been to various tech meetups. Everyone wants to say hi
and ask what are you working on, invite you for coffee, or ask random
questions about their business.

Going to a coffee shop and putting headphones can be more productive

~~~
Arizhel
It's funny how, for many people, working in a coffee shop, a place that's
open, public, and full of people, allows them to concentrate better on their
work than most other places.

Of course, it makes sense if you really think about it. In a coffee shop, no
one is going to come up and tap on your shoulder and ask you some stupid
question they could have asked in email, nor do people generally have loud,
annoying conversations right next to you there. There's plenty of people in a
coffee shop, but they're strangers, they keep to themselves, and they don't
talk except perhaps to their singular companion in a quiet manner.

------
Veen
I'm a writer by trade and I have a similar problem. It's nigh-on impossible to
communicate why it's painful to be interrupted when I'm typing or even just
staring into space thinking. Much conflict with significant others has been
caused by their inability to understand that breaking my train of thought
costs me more than 30 seconds of productivity.

In fact, it's especially bad when it looks like I'm doing nothing. Often, I'll
be working out the structure of a long article in my head, crafting the
argument and how each paragraph contributes to it. The whole thing collapses
when I'm interrupted. At that point, asking if I want a cup of tea is likely
to receive a sharp response.

Today, I don't bother explaining: I just make sure that I have a place I can
go where I won't be interrupted.

~~~
chrisdone
I came to the same conclusion. If you have someone around who can't help
interrupt you, either by directly asking you for responses or doing
distracting behavior, it's wise to simply get your own room, in the house or
in a coworking space or a proper office. It doesn't matter how much you try to
coach and train someone to respect your need for peace and quiet while
working. It only leads to arguments and bitterness. It's much healthier to
solve it by physically moving to a quiet place. I found that while it's
possible to get work done in that environment, moving to your own space by
yourself is a whole different experience. You can finally concentrate without
fear of distraction (which is itself a distraction).

~~~
Xcelerate
> You can finally concentrate without fear of distraction (which is itself a
> distraction)

This is a very clear articulation of something I have been trying to put into
words for years. My family doesn't understand why I can't get anything done
when they are around, even if they aren't speaking to me. It's because I know
there is the _potential_ for interruption, which in and of itself is enough to
prevent me from truly getting into the "deep work" state.

------
bertlequant
A lot of this seems to blame others for a personal lack of attention and
productivity. Even the Joe Spolsky article someone linked to below, lists a
whole lot of reasons that diminish his productivity, none of them being
directly caused by him. I am quite the opposite. I tend to think focusing on
maximum productivity makes me less productive, as I will tend to get peeved
about things I have no control over.

Sure, if someone interrupts you while you have set it up to be clear you are
busy (whether on your work messenger or email) then that is annoying and not
cool. But it's hard for me to get annoyed at others when I haven't done the
ground work to set up those obvious protections.

~~~
secstate
So much this. As a practitioner of modern stoicism, the idea that my
productivity should be tied to external influences is anathema to my
philosophy.

Working from home and having three kids between 6 and 10 months, the onus is
on my to manage my expectations and my spouses expectations for when I'm going
to be working, what work is interruptible, and what's most important to me.
Given that my priorities go: family, friends (spouse included here), work,
volunteering, that means that if the family isn't functioning well, that's
where my attention goes until we're in a good place.

I've seen a lot of people either neglect their personal priority list or
simply not have one, and then wonder why their life is falling apart around
them, or they from time to time feel void or uninspired.

All this to say, productivity for productivity's sake is the behavior of
cancer. If I have an un-productive day from a work perspective, it's usually
because I was tending to higher priorities in my life, and thus it is hardly
the end of the world, and I make a plan for getting things back on an even
keel there so tomorrow or the next day I will have a more productive day, and
make sure to communicate this to my supervisor in my next 1:1.

~~~
5_minutes
Aren't you throwing many different things on the same pile here? If your 3
kids interrupt you, each one each hour. Do you get stuff done?

Your priorities are excellent. But unless you are wealthy enough that money is
not a priority and/or have a wife that's a housewife, or nanny or maid... all
interruptions in the "zone" are real interruptions that have a significant
cost involved.

PS. Modern stoicism is awesome.

~~~
lemonberry
Off topic: When you say "modern stoicism", do you mean applying classical
stoic principles to modern life or are there certain books, authors, or
websites that offer a modern interpretation of classical stoicism you're
referring to?

A quick search yielded this site:
[http://modernstoicism.com](http://modernstoicism.com). Any other references
would be appreciated.

~~~
5_minutes
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29093292-the-daily-
stoic](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29093292-the-daily-stoic)

This is just a really good book. Get the hardcover version, so it feels a bit
like a bible :)

------
wimagguc
Related question: how to explain a non-developer manager that you will switch
Slack off for periods of time even when working from home? With all
seriousness, Slack somehow became the measure of at-work-ness, but it's the
worst when I'm programming. It's like an all-day meeting without an agenda.

~~~
Sir_Substance
My strategy for this is to modify my do not disturb settings to make it shut
the fuck up, and then leave it in that mode permanently.

Skype, steam and slack do not flash, beep or pop up when I get messages, they
just put a discreet number on the taskbar. I've learned to ignore that number
until I'm ready.

As a result, I'm always online on my chat programs but my responses can take
anywhere between 30 seconds and 4 hours depending on what I'm doing. If it was
really that important, people would walk over to my desk. That only happens
about once a week.

~~~
protomok
Yep, batching IM and even email responses works well for me as well.

My experience has been most developers and managers are fine with this.

------
d--b
I agree with the second answer on that thread... "I just need to focus for a
while" is a perfectly understandable explanation. The problem is that other
people just don't care that you need to concentrate...

The OP himself dismisses "the funny guy from accounting", as if accountants
didn't need to concentrate!

~~~
junke
> The OP himself dismisses "the funny guy from accounting", as if accountants
> didn't need to concentrate!

OP doesn't dismiss all accountants, it is an example picked at random. If OP
only said "that funny guy", would you say "as if guys didn't need to
concentrate!"?

~~~
d--b
I'm not saying he dismisses all accountants. The connotation that I get from
reading this is "that funny guy from accounting (who really doesn't know what
focusing means because non-developers don't get it)".

I mean the accountants probably complain about the funny IT dude who's always
pulling their legs.

My point is that the guy from accounting is probably very focused when he has
to close the year's budget by the end of the day, but once it's done, he
doesn't care anymore, he's very happy bothering people by joking around.

It's not a matter of explaining what focusing is. It's simple office dynamics.

If you find your productivity is declining because of interruptions, you need
to find ways to avoid being interrupted rather than asking others to not
bother you.

------
hanney
This has always been my go-to diagram to describe an interruption

[http://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-
interrupt-...](http://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt-a-
programmer/)

------
tta
[https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-
interrupt...](https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt-a-
programmer/)

~~~
srvlsct
Came here to say this.

This comic is the perfect explanation of interrupting the thought process.

------
aries1980
I can recommend “Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World”.
It has case-studies with loads of non-tech people, including Carl G. Jung and
Charles Dickens. [http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Business/Deep-Work-
Audiobook/B01...](http://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Business/Deep-Work-
Audiobook/B01D0E32T8)

------
dba7dba
I would use cooking analogy. Once you start cooking a dish (well, most of the
dishes), you can't stop the involved steps until the intended food is ready.

If you interrupt the cook cooking the food often and/or long enough, the food
will come out burnt, too soggy, or etc.

1\. The key lesson is coding involves juggling many things, just in our head.
2\. Cooking involves juggling many things in pot, on frying pan, etc.

Anything that interrupts the juggling in cooking can cause one ingredient to
come out bad, and you have bad tasting food or worse you have to start from
scratch again.

Same with coding.

So, please do not bother coders. Even if they seem to be just browsing
websites and not typing away furiously. They are most likely looking for
answer to a coding question they need help with by reading on sites like
stackoverflow.com. And this requires same amount of focus.

Thank you.

~~~
ultra2d
My thoughts exactly. You don't suddenly drop all kitchen utensils to vacuum
the living room, do you?

------
nickpeterson
I work from home almost every day, in a house with a four your old and a 1
year old. Ultimately, my wife does a pretty good job at not having them
interrupt me, but often I find I have the opposite problem of hearing my wife
struggling with the children and go help her. It's self-serving in a way,
because my wife is generally happier if her day isn't a struggle. Often if I
need to focus on something uninterrupted I'll put on some headphones with some
trance/house music and pound away for a bit. This only kind of helps though,
because I find it's only good if you have a lot of manual work to do where you
already understand the solution. I'm often at the whiteboard for an hour or so
for every 20-30 minutes of coding.

------
norswap
What about embracing interruptions, in the spirit of anti-fragility?

If you can't get back to coding productively after an interruption, it
probably means that your code or your process isn't really up to snuff (or
more charitably, that it could be improved).

I try (and do not always succeed) in coding like this, privileging tiny
changes, keeping a backlog of tasks to complete, avoiding "recursive tasks"
(starting a task in the middle of another because it would help), putting in a
lot of helpful comments. It also entails refactoring early and often,
sometimes rewriting.

I work on highly sophisticated programs (compilers) and if I didn't do that,
I'd get nothing done.

I also do this for my side-project. I optimize them for "re-starting". When I
open them after a few weeks of inactivity, I don't want to get discouraged,
and want to be able to start being productive as fast as possible.

~~~
dntrkv
I've never understood these complaints about being interrupted. Unless someone
is walking over to your desk every 5 min, you should be able to handle the few
interruptions you get in a day. Also this idea that a "layperson" doesn't
understand why someone shouldn't be interrupted while in the middle of
something is laughable. Like programmers are the only ones that concentrate.

~~~
Nadya
Many professions have more `write` than `read`. You're _doing more_ and not
needing to keep everything in your head at once in order to understand what
you are doing. As a cook you can clear your mind of steps that have already
happened - you only need to worry about the _next_ steps in the recipe and not
everything that came before it. I don't have to worry about preheating the
oven as I'm flipping something that is already in the oven. It has already
happened - I can forget about it! Programmers can't forget about things that
have already happened because _those are the most important things to
remember_.

I'd argue the closest profession would be lawyers. Lawyerese casts "variables"
(collective) all the time and you need to remember what each collective means
while reading through a verbose document that could span multiple pages and
references itself constantly (see the exceptions listed in §2.7 and §4.2b).
You have to keep the entire document in your mind at a single time to actually
be able to read and understand it properly.

The "layperson" understands not to interrupt a lawyer they see reading through
a stack of 100 pages on their desk. They don't understand not to interrupt the
coder who has 12 lines of code open in their IDE.

------
wantoncl
Developing code is like having an orgasm.

They are primarily mental processes that require focus and concentration on
specific things. Any distraction, no matter how small, will derail the entire
process.

Once interrupted, the person cannot just pick up from that point, they have to
start over from the beginning and redo all that work.

I've found this analogy pretty solid, even though it sounds silly. You
certainly don't need to explain to anyone about interrupted orgasm, or what it
takes to get back on track.

(Of course, for orgasm, that re-work is pretty enjoyable, unless you are a
professional who gets paid to produce orgasms for other people who demand them
of you. Therefore all coders are whores. ;)

~~~
lohengramm
Fun fact: in Portuguese, we call prostitutes "garota de programa", which
literally means "program's girl", or "a girl who makes programs". "Program" in
this context means "sexual service".

It is a known inside joke among Brazilian programmers to call ourselves
"garoto de programa", which means "program's boy" \- laymen therefore think we
are referring to male prostitution.

------
Communitivity
The way I explain it is that the biggest part of what I do is building a
mental model of how the subsystem I am working on should work, or how it does
work, in my head. That this model has many, many pieces, and building it is
akin to painstakingly building a house of cards, one level at a time. Then I
get interrupted, and 'whoosh', the house of cards comes crashing down. Sure I
can get back to there, but I have to repeat the process of building the model.
This may not be the way it is for everyone, I am a very pattern-oriented
thinker.

------
winteriscoming
I have found that, let alone explaining it to laymen, it's hard enough to
explain it to your own team members and expect them not to keep interrupting
you. I have realized that, the bigger the team, the less productive I keep
getting, due to the constant interruptions.

~~~
dredmorbius
I'm looking at networks as having two primary operational functions.

One is a _value_ function, which is best described by Tilly-Odlyzko: v = n *
log(n)

(Tilly would be @tilly on HN, BTW.)

The "log(n)" factor means that as you add additional elements, the _positive_
benefit _decreases_ as _n_ increases.

The other is a _cost_ function, which is probabalistic between any two nodes.
It's actually closer to the old (and incaccurate) Metcalfe rule: c = k * n^2

Where _k_ is some cost constant. The larger _k_ , the _smaller_ the productive
size of the network, the smaller _k_ , the larger the network can grow. Hence:
network size is constrained by the cost constant.

What you're observing is the cost constant of team size as a factor of
interruptions. Since any member might interrupt you at any time, and those
interruptions all have roughly equal cost, but the _positive_ contribution a
team member can make is limited by their ability to provide useful inputs, and
the _k_ factor is relatively large, few technical teams seem to scale much
beyond about 6-12 members.

(Larger teams are almost always subdivided into smaller effective working
groups.)

~~~
dredmorbius
Correction: tilly is @btilly.

------
skyisblue
If you have a good manager they will protect you from all these interruptions.
Your manager's job is to ensure you are productive. These constant
interruptions aren't making you productive, so your manager should do their
best to minimise these interruptions.

One way a manager can help minimise interruptions is to create a policy. Have
an issue? Create a ticket and the team will get back to you when we are
available.

~~~
bec123
Which is great until u work in open plan environment which makes it impossible

~~~
bythckr
Open plan env is a bad idea. Thanks to companies like Google using open plan,
it's considered that you are lazy if you object to having an open plan.

------
sebringj
There is something to be said about this problem diminishing over time with
lots of practice being in chaotic environments. I've worked at home for over a
decade and have 3 young sons. There are varying degrees of distraction to
overcome. Not to be overlooked, one is just being alone itself with the
ability to do anything else. Ambient or sudden noise without direct
interruption is another in which Drum Code trance techno seems to help. The
last level is the ability to ignore people or hand gesture you are busy in
such a way that it neither offends yet also conveys empathy in both directions
while not taking you out of the zone. These are not easy things but are
achievable because you can't keep exposing to Bob or Sally analogies while
maintaining sanity.

~~~
49531
I'm in the same boat, and have been for a few years. Being able to deal with
interruptions is definitely a learned skill.

~~~
sebringj
Yah maybe one of us should write a book about how to handle this on the
psychological level. Might transcend programming to have a bigger audience.

------
phreack
Instead of even bothering explaining, I used to just code at home during the
night... You can guess what that did to my body in the long run, so even if
it's a hassle, letting people who could distract you during same working hours
know to leave you be for a time is worth it.

------
milesf
My favourite is to explain interruptions of any kind are like teleporting me 1
hour away. You may have "just a quick question", but as soon as you walk away
I now need an hour to travel back to get to where I was.

For some people it's much shorter, but I find saying 1 hour gets the point
across. Otherwise folks may think "bah, it only takes them 15 minute... I
think it's worth interrupting him".

Bottom line: we need to teach awareness to those who are ignorant, set
boundaries, and defend those boundaries once they are set. Otherwise you are
dealing with disrespect. I can tolerate many things, but I do not, and will
not, tolerate disrespect.

------
ourcat
Ask them to build a big house of cards. Then burst into the room wearing a big
flowing cape just before they finish the top layer.

------
SnowingXIV
This keeps popping up and more and more. Being a programmer isn't some
completely unique snowflake experience. Concentration exists in all fields.
Try writing a novel or composing a song. Having someone interrupt your "zone"
is just as unsettling and frustrating. Because we have to think through some
patterns and logic doesn't mean our focus is any more enlightened. This just
feels like continued gatekeeping.

~~~
dasmoth
Novelists don't generally get packed into open plan offices and told they need
to collaborate more.

I think a better question is why, of all the kinds of "flow"-based knowledge
work, has programming become so strongly associated with the idea that
interruptability and collaboration should take precedence over sitting down
and working through the problem?

~~~
Arizhel
Also relevant I think is that novelists are a vanishingly small part of the
population. Very, very few people make a living writing novels or other
lengthy texts, and not that many people write novels as a hobby (or hoping to
sell their book). Not many people write songs either, the other example given
here.

All in all, I'd say that there just aren't that many jobs these days that
require a lot of individual concentration and focus. Those that do seem to
have the reputation that it's needed: novelists, some college professors (when
they're writing theses/dissertations/whatever), etc.

But it's weird; if you asked most people if they think novelists would be more
productive at home in their private office, or in a loud, bustling open-office
environment, I'll bet most would answer the former. But for some reason people
don't seem to think programmers need that.

------
cromulent
Relevant:
[http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html)

------
valuearb
Give the developers offices with doors. A shut door is a good barrier to
casual interruptions.

------
known
Tell him a Surgeon should not be disturbed when he is doing surgery;

~~~
prodmerc
Then you're the asshole who compares himself to a surgeon heh

~~~
jazoom
I'm a doctor that performs minor surgical procedures, as well as a coder.
Unless something is going wrong in the procedure, I'd much rather get
interrupted while performing surgery than while coding. YMMV.

------
TobyGiacometti
One tactic I would use (and have used before) if I can't switch places is to
just put on headphones and listen to music. You could even leave the music
away and just have the headphones on. This was usually quiet successful in
letting people know that I don't want to be distracted.

~~~
Arizhel
I've tried that, and it doesn't work, in fact it makes it much worse. You get
lulled into deep concentration successfully, and then some asshole comes up
behind you and taps you on the shoulder.

------
oneeyedpigeon
Am I the only one getting slowly more and more infuriated by this modern trend
of writing a statement and pretending it's a question just by adding a
question mark at the end?

------
alexkon
Here’s another take on this:
[http://alexthunder.livejournal.com/309815.html](http://alexthunder.livejournal.com/309815.html)

------
xchaotic
I can distract myself with twitter, youtube, stackexchange, even doing chores
in the house, you name it. I don't even need anyone else to be distracted,
thanks!

------
deepaksurti
Work profitably for yourself in your own private (non-co) working space. Most
of us though are not in that situation, but I think (naively) it need not be
like that.

------
dredmorbius
There is ample evidence and testimony to support this, and it applies to far
more than just programming.

This Is Why You Shouldn't Interrupt a Programmer (comic)
[https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-
interrupt...](https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt-a-
programmer/)

And it's gone [https://jaxenter.com/aaaand-gone-true-cost-
interruptions-128...](https://jaxenter.com/aaaand-gone-true-cost-
interruptions-128741.html)

(Includes reference to meetings: "If you think an unplanned interruption is
bad, how about a planned one? If you know you have a meeting later today, your
whole day is ruined because you unwillingly tailor it to make sure you finish
your tasks on time.")

Programmer, Interrupted
[http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/190891/programmer_inte...](http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/190891/programmer_interrupted.php)

Programmers teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptions
[http://www.daedtech.com/programmers-teach-non-geeks-the-
true...](http://www.daedtech.com/programmers-teach-non-geeks-the-true-cost-of-
interruptions/)

@pg, "Maker's Schedule"
[http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html)

Don Knuth, on email: [http://www-cs-
faculty.stanford.edu/%7Euno/email.html](http://www-cs-
faculty.stanford.edu/%7Euno/email.html)

 _Email is a wonderful thing for people whose role in life is to be on top of
things. But not for me; my role is to be on the bottom of things. What I do
takes long hours of studying and uninterruptible concentration. I try to learn
certain areas of computer science exhaustively; then I try to digest that
knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don 't have time for
such study._

Peiter Hintjens noted that meetings are serialisation points
[http://hintjens.com/blog%3A100](http://hintjens.com/blog%3A100)

As numerous people have noted, writers and other creatives, not just
programmers, viscerally hate interruptions.

Neal Stephenson, "Why I am a Bad Correspondant"
[http://www.nealstephenson.com/why-i-am-a-bad-
correspondent.h...](http://www.nealstephenson.com/why-i-am-a-bad-
correspondent.html)

John Cleese: "Busyness and interruptions kill your producti vity":
[http://www.flowfinders.com/productivity/busyness-
interruptio...](http://www.flowfinders.com/productivity/busyness-interruption-
destroy-your-creativity.html)

Charlie Stross (@cstross): Writer, Interrupted:
[http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-
static/2016/08/writer-i...](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-
static/2016/08/writer-interrupted.html)

A Brain Pickings piece has selections from Hemmingway, Dylan, and Mann:
[https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/08/25/the-psychology-
of-w...](https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/08/25/the-psychology-of-writing-
daily-routine/)

There is much general advice to writers on avoiding and minimising
interruptions: [http://productivewriters.com/2011/10/10/minimizing-
writing-i...](http://productivewriters.com/2011/10/10/minimizing-writing-
interruptions/)
[http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/please_stop_int...](http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/please_stop_interrupting_me)

Generally, the work of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihaly_Csikszentmihalyi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihaly_Csikszentmihalyi)

And of course there's Samuel Taylor Coleridge, and his Person from Porlock:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_from_Porlock](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_from_Porlock)

------
nc
Watch 'The Social Network'

