
How three-day weekends can help save the world - harwoodleon
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-three-day-weekends-can-help-save-world-and-us-too
======
imgabe
> Utah abandoned the experiment in 2011 after residents complained they were
> unable to access services on Fridays.

This is part of the problem I think. I've worked 4-day weeks in the past and
one of the best things about it is you have a free day during the week to do
all the things you normally can't get to. Go to the doctor, visit other
business or government offices that are normally only open while you're at
work.

Of course if _everyone_ does a 4-day week, then you lose that benefit. Then
you have to cram all those errands into the 4 days, during which you now also
have more work to do.

Instead of "everybody take Friday off". It might make more sense to stagger
days off so everyone has a chance to have a day off while things they need are
open.

~~~
overcast
Well service roles get screwed no matter what. Irrelevant of standard work
weeks. Restaurants/hospitals/retail are already open all week regardless. What
people are arguing is all the white collar jobs that feed back into the
service jobs.

~~~
Declanomous
I personally think the issue is that we have defined Saturday and Sunday as
the weekend. I worked retail, and I loved having Saturday as my "Friday", and
Sunday and Monday as my weekend, because services had normal hours on Monday,
and I could relax on Sunday. The downside at the time was that my schedule
often didn't overlap with that of my friends, such as those who worked as
servers in restaurants.

I find three day weekends to be much more relaxing than the standard weekend.
It means I can spend time with my friends on one day, do chores on another
day, and spend the remaining day relaxing. As long as I still have a day I can
spend with my friends, I'd be okay with a different schedule than M-F or M-R.

There is a barrier to a shorter workweek I don't see touched on often, and
maybe it's just me. I'm hesitant to work less because I'm afraid that people
would find out that I'm just not that necessary around the office, and that
the work I do isn't important as I think it is. Realistically, I think such a
realization would be more damaging to my personal pride than anything else. I
think I base too much of my self-worth on how replaceable I am to my
organization. It's a bit ridiculous to seek validation from an organization,
but it is one reason why I'd be hesitant to have a day off while other people
are working.

------
jnordwick
While increasing productivity will definitely allow people to find work that
allows them either less time or more flexibility, there is always that issue
of want.

Ten years from now, let say you can find a job where you can work 32 hours a
week (or 40, but 8 from home -- slacking a little on that), but let's say you
don't earn enough to afford that new iPhone. You can only afford the previous
years model. You can't quite have the new curved behemoth TVs that everybody
has, nor can you take a vacation any time soon, but you can to take a mini one
every weekend.

Is this going to be okay for you? I would argue, many people might be able to
do this now. I think that desire to consume is pretty strong. I definitely
have it.

These decisions all come with tradeoffs. If your neighbor decides to work 48
hours, taking the 8 your decided to forego, and he can afford these nice
little things, are you then going to be calling it unfair that he he's paid
more than you? Are you going to be calling for an weekly hour cap to prevent
it?

~~~
belorn
Following this line of thought, why aren't people currently working 7 days a
week? People who work 56hrs will earn more than those working 48, and even
more than those that just work 40hrs.

One answer might just be norms. If only 10% of people work 56hrs, then you
don't earn so little that you can't afford " _that expensive thing_ that
everybody has". What everybody has is based on norms and averages.

A question is then how we went from working 7 days a week, to 6 days a week
and Sundays in church, to 5 days a week. How did people start to work less and
live with the reality of earning less in comparison to those staying with the
old working hours.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _A question is then how we went from working 7 days a week, to 6 days a week
> and Sundays in church, to 5 days a week. How did people start to work less
> and live with the reality of earning less in comparison to those staying
> with the old working hours._

With blood. The socialist revolutions were in big part based on fighting for
the workers abused in the freshly industrialized world.

It's ironic if you see how fast people today want to get rid of all the
safeguards that got us the quality of life we enjoy today, all in the name of
cheaper products and "I will be an entrepreneur too!" mindset.

~~~
conanbatt
Source?

First, i think you mean unions, not socialism. Non-socialist countries also
have had 5 day weeks. Also even though unions have increased worker rights in
history, pure capitalism has also been doing that as well. Look at silicon
valley, where empoyee perks, extra PTO and such have not been fought for but
are provided.

~~~
Mikeb85
They were provided because labour demand outpaced supply. It's not the case
for tech jobs in many North American markets, and certainly not the case for
many other white collar jobs; even good paying ones.

When supply begins to overshadow demand, whether due to immigration, more
people getting CS degrees or whatever, you'll see a lot of those perks
stripped away, and wages will stagnate or fall (relatively speaking).

~~~
twoodfin
jnordwick's excellent point is that demand can grow without any obvious bound.
That has an impact on both ends of the labor market. Sure, people will be
willing to work more to acquire the things they want, but that demand itself
generates a need for jobs and leverage for labor. Somebody needs to design and
manufacture the next iPhone or fancy TV. Somebody else needs to refurbish and
maintain that lovely seaside Airbnb for jnordwick's next vacation.

This can be a self-reinforcing cycle, and it's how the economic pie can grow
even as everyone on the whole takes more.

~~~
Mikeb85
Demand can't outpace supply forever. It can grow forever, but anything that's
lucrative will eventually be sought out, and the price will come down. Labour
included. Also, someone will always be willing to undercut others, which is
why the arbitrage condition is basically a law of economics, and always leads
to a price equilibrium.

------
surfmike
I think a three day weekend should be a societal goal we strive for, as
productivity per worker goes up. Let's use our extra wealth to give people
some more leisure time. Besides there's a good chance people will probably get
the same amount of work done with four days as five.

~~~
CuriouslyC
The problem is, most Americans don't know what to do with leisure time. It
actually causes them distress. We need to figure out how to get people engaged
in other pursuits before we disengage them from work.

~~~
zebraflask
There is definitely a grain of truth to that statement. After 40+ hours of
work every week, when a day or two hits with nothing to do, it can be
difficult to know what to do with yourself. The mindset of needing to be
constantly working starts to become embedded.

~~~
ashark
IMO it's tough to do _anything_ with yourself on the weekends with only two
days off. There's not _enough_ time to start to do things of consequence, as
the two days are mostly spent recovering from the previous 5.

5 days of work. Get up, get self ready, get kids ready, get kids to school,
work, get home, feed kids, get kids to bed. Too mentally tired to do anything
now, and if it's not summer then the Sun's either down or going down. Hope you
didn't need to mow the damn lawn again, or your evening's _really_ shot.

Day 6, spend actually quality time with kids (finally!), begin to recover from
the work week.

Day 7, starting to feel like a real human again, maybe do _just a little_
stuff for one's self, get the house in order after 6 days of chaos, do other
necessary stuff that was deferred during the work week.

Day 8: five days of work starts over.

------
sien
It's arguable that people are actually choosing fewer hours by working part
time.

Part time work has shot up as a percentage of all work. In Australia it has
gone from 1/10 to 1/4 of work from 1966 to 2007. Most other countries are
similar. AU numbers in the link.

[http://www.pc.gov.au/research/supporting/part-time-
employmen...](http://www.pc.gov.au/research/supporting/part-time-employment)

Before people point out that people would actually like to work more it's
worth quoting the link that this goes both ways:

"Since the early 1990s, 20-25 per cent of female part time workers and 30-35
per cent of male part time workers have indicated a preference to work more
hours. At the same time, there is evidence to suggest that two full time
workers want to move to part time work for every part time worker who wants to
move to full time work."

~~~
dugditches
From the paper:

'..over the last thirty years there has been an increase in involuntary part
time employment.'

'There has been no sustained or substantial decrease in the level of
involuntary part time employment among women since it increased during the
recession of the early 1990s.'

'involuntary part time employment increased strongly during the economic
recessions in the early 1980s and 1990s, as well as the economic slowdown in
2001.'

Your paper was published in June 2008, before the '08 Crisis.

Choosing to work Part-Time is a privilege. Companies use Part Time work to
avoid paying benefits, leave, etc. Keeping employees in a sort of limbo to
save costs.

~~~
sien
For those who are not Australians it is important to note that in Australia
there is universal health care independent of your employer.

Also while benefits are not usually the same as for full time they are
sometimes and even if not the same are not as different as they are in the US.

------
pif
> Utah abandoned the experiment in 2011 after residents complained they were
> unable to access services on Fridays.

The idea of a three-day weekend looks nice, but it should be applied to
people, not services! Services should be still open Monday to Friday, just
with 80% of the people working in.

~~~
ljf
Yes I was wondering why they didn't either cycle the extra day, or have 100%
Tue-Wed-Thurs then 50% Mon&Fri - using hot desking so that much of the office
space can be shut down.

Other advantages are that 2 working parents who each had an opposing day 'off'
would only need child care for 3 days instead of 5, resulting in lower costs
and more family team. I know that would be great for me!

------
squozzer
So now the question becomes -- which day should become the third day?

I vote for Friday. It's the Muslim worship day - and snuggles nicely against
the Jewish and Christian worship days. It would give "Thank God It's Friday"
an extra dimension of meaning. Most people are halfway home mentally anyway.

Monday also has some claims, but think of all of the songs that would have to
be re-written to make Tuesday the new "most hated." I Don't Like Tuesdays
(tell me why.) Rainy Days and Tuesdays Always Get Me Down. Blue Tuesday.

That's all I got to say about that.

~~~
wishinghand
It absolutely needs to be a day that people can choose themselves, so that not
too many services will be unavailable on this new off day.

------
pbarlik
Increase in productivity and all the remote work tools now available are
supposed to gives us option to work less, but it is not that easy when we
bring our work everywhere thanks to smartphones. Even when working part-time
you end up checking your e-mail or Slack. It would be great to push changes
like the ones proposed in article, but there is nobody out there who will want
to advocate for them - corporations? government? unions? ourselves? (when the
consumerism argument seems to please everyone):/

~~~
jnordwick
Don't do it. There are plenty of people who become unavailable after work
hours (when they are not supposed to be on call). Every YC article that comes
up about the topic there are plenty that will tell you how.

In the end it comes down to people making a decision. They are willing to take
their work home with them essentially, either literally or via phone, because
they value that job enough to compete with the others who are willing to do
the same.

There are plenty of slightly less demanding jobs or even fields that will give
you that ability, but that drive for the little more financially comfortable
life is quite powerful. Too many people act like they are powerless when in
reality they have the power to start looking into jobs or careers.

~~~
pbarlik
It is good point. In general the only people who can change the workplace are
the employees who put the pressure on the employer or like you say make career
choices that better reflect work/life balance we seek.

This is best visible in tech where we are used to perks that we already
consider basic, another discussion is whether those perks are actually a way
to make us work more.

On a personal note I remember working in advertising and being on my
Blackberry 24/7\. Was it necessary? I don't think so, but neither my ad agency
nor myself had an effective productivity system in place. Workplaces has
changed so much in the last 5 years, that we may want to consider teaching
people how to work less, remotely and avoid re-work at any cost. My proposal
would be putting that as obligatory course in every college. Sort of like
d.school Design Your Life, and instead Design Your Work.

------
vatsal
I recently read an interesting take on the same topic by Carlos Slim Helu. He
actually advocates a 3 day work week for certain industries. Telmex is already
offering this option to some of it's employees.

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-04/mexico-
s-r...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-04/mexico-s-richest-
man-wants-a-three-day-workweek)

------
jnordwick
> As anthropologist David Graeber recently has contended, many of us work jobs
> that, at least partially, seem pointless. Indeed, economists long have been
> aware of the redundant hours contained in many working days

Wait! Are these the same Keynesian economists that say doing pointless work,
literally digging holes and filling the up again, can improve the economy?

------
pif
> In its first 10 months, the move saved the state at least $1.8 million in
> energy costs.

What is such a statement supposed to mean? What was the total energy cost in
those months? Did they shave a 1% or a 20%?

------
justin_vanw
Why not a 5 day week?

5/7 == 71.4% of days are work days

3/5 == 60% of days are work days

So we would lose 11% of working days, but you would get a weekend after every
3 work days.

I think the main objection would come from various religions which have hard-
coded a 7 day week, but if they picked one holy day out of 5, that is even
more visits to the designated building of that religion every year, so it
seems like they could get on board with that.

------
madengr
We have a 9/80 work week at my employer, and even then, they want people
coming in on their days off. Never gonna happen in corporate America.

~~~
mschuster91
What does 9/80 mean? 9h/day minimum, and 80h/week?

That 'd be straight out illegal in Germany, for example (8h/d maximum on long-
term average, 48h/week max on long-term average). If any accidents happen with
this excessive overtimes, the employer is fully liable for any damages claims.

What the US desperately lacks is a federal workers' protection laws.

~~~
andrewwhartion
“The 9/80 work week… occurs over a 2-week period as follows: employees work
seven 9-hour days in a 2-week period, one 8-hour day and then receive one
“free” day off every other week.”

[https://workfamily.sas.upenn.edu/glossary/n/nineeighty-
work-...](https://workfamily.sas.upenn.edu/glossary/n/nineeighty-work-week-
definitions)

Google is your friend.

------
quantumhobbit
Keynes famously predicted we'd be working much less by now due to increased
productivity, but that hasn't happened yet and probably never will for the
same reason we still have to work five days a week.

~~~
fma
If it weren't for unions we'd all still be working Saturdays. But we all know
unions are only for the good for nothing & the lazy.

[http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-
meter/statements/2015/sep/...](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-
meter/statements/2015/sep/09/viral-image/does-8-hour-day-and-40-hour-come-
henry-ford-or-lab/)

~~~
hueving
If it weren't for unions, we'd still have a competitive manufacturing industry
that would be allowed to reward competence rather than seniority.

Unions stagnated decades ago and have achieved little more than strangling
many of the industries they are involved in.

~~~
vacri
> _a competitive manufacturing industry that would be allowed to reward
> competence rather than seniority._

Because that's how it was for labourers before unions?

Yes, life with unions sucks. But life without unions sucks even more.

------
test6554
This sounds like something you can potentially achieve today just by
negotiating with your employer. 20% less work for 20% less pay. It affects
only you and the world keeps on turning.

------
marmot777
I went back and read this again and the effect of these sort of changes
compounded over time could actually save the world. It wasn't _just_ a click
bait headline. :-)

------
cousin_it
Yes, it's virtuous to sacrifice each other's economic freedom (though not
political freedom) to increase average happiness.

------
dbg31415
Wouldn't an extra day working from home each week give pretty much the same
benefits, while keeping productivity the same?

Nice middle ground, I think. I think for businesses that require customers to
be around... restaurants, taxis, coffee shops... losing a day would be pretty
brutal.

Likely see less coffee shops, for example, as they would struggle to make
rent. Probably more chain coffee shops, as a result. I see a lot of
consequences like this to adding another weekend day.

~~~
santaclaus
> Likely see less coffee shops, for example, as they would struggle to make
> rent.

The coffee shops everywhere I've lived are _more_ crowded on the weekends than
during the week.

~~~
ljf
Yes - many 'services' might still be 7 day, just cycling additional time off
amongst the workers. That relies on owners happily sharing their profits,
which is unlikely to happen outside of co-ops.

------
notliketherest
Every time someone makes the comment "oh if America was just like Europe and
had X number of days off and relaxed attitudes towards work and a strong work
life balance etc", I feel obliged to point out that there's a large majority
of people in this country who A) Do not like being told we should be more like
Europe and B) Don't mind the 5 day work week and have just as much joy and
happiness as anyone. Not to mention the abysmal state many European countries
and economies have found themselves in. While they were taking their siesta,
the USA was busy being the largest economy in the world.

~~~
DrJokepu
I think you're mostly right, trying to apply European solutions to American
problems is not necessarily a good idea, just like trying to apply American
solutions to European problems is not necessarily a very good idea.

The nationalist slur at the end of your comment was totally unnecessary
though.

~~~
hueving
>The nationalist slur at the end of your comment was totally unnecessary
though.

Is highlighting the fact that the US is the largest economy considered a slur?

~~~
jacalata
The comment about taking siestas was saying the US is the largest economy
because people in other countries were lazy. Did you really think that it was
the other half of that sentence being objected to?

~~~
thr0waway1239
To add some perspective though, because the US is the largest economy, the
notion of working harder to achieve similar results to the US is quite the
aspiration for the developing countries. Not to mention geeks like me (and
probably others here) who are endlessly fascinated by how much easier it is to
go from idea to prototype to production to profit in the US compared to just
about every other country on the planet.

The commenter could have just said that the 25% extra hours worked each week
compounded into a much larger economy and omitted 'siesta'.

~~~
eyelidlessness
> how much easier it is to go from idea to prototype to production to profit
> in the US compared to just about every other country on the planet

Is that true? I honestly don't know, but my intuition is that it's true for a
certain subset of projects and not others. Even if it is true, is the origin
of that truth "working harder"? I sincerely doubt that. If I had to guess, the
availability of capital is the leading cause. And that capital came from
somewhere, but it wasn't all hard work.

~~~
UncleSlacky
This study (looking at the "Entrepreneurship & Opportunity" column) for 2015
shows Sweden at #1 and the US at #11:
[http://www.prosperity.com/#!/ranking](http://www.prosperity.com/#!/ranking)

------
tonyedgecombe
You can save the world by gradually shifting taxes to fossil fuels, let the
market sort everything else out.

