
Dog Ownership and Survival - Kaibeezy
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCOUTCOMES.119.005554
======
carrozo
My dog saved my life; unconditional two-way love and the responsibility of
caring for another being got me out of my own head, and that cascaded out
through every other area of my life in untold ways. It’s a massive cliche, but
he really is my best friend and I can’t imagine life without him.

------
jmull
My experience is that a dog requires a _minimum_ of 45 minutes walking a day,
day in, day out, for years on end.

They are also indefatigable life coaches who simply will not take no for an
answer. (Your human life coach probably won’t jump up on the bed where you are
trying to ignore them and start licking your face, or bark “Out! Out! Out!” at
you hundreds of times in a row.)

And if you still manage to blow off your dog, your reward is a nice pile of
crap and puddles of pee in your house.

Meanwhile, the walks are enjoyable.

So you are pretty much going to be a regular walker if you take care of a dog.
(Well, there are workarounds for some situations and some dogs, but why swim
upstream on something like this?)

~~~
tjr225
> Meanwhile, the walks are enjoyable.

Non-dog owners often complain about how much work a dog would be, but I find
the time spent walking and playing with my dogs far more enjoyable and
rewarding than most things.

~~~
astura
It's not as unintuitive as it sounds...

It seems like a tautology but you have to actually enjoy interacting with dogs
to find dog ownership enjoyable and rewarding. Many people just don't find any
sort of joy in a dog's company. Personally, I don't really care to be being
around dogs, I'd strongly prefer to take walks myself (and I do). The more
time I spend with friend's dogs the more I dislike them.

However I absolutely love being around cats and few things are more enjoyable
than a cat in my lap.

~~~
magduf
I'm exactly the same. I generally hate being around dogs: they're smelly,
dirty, and require far too much attention. I really hate it when other
peoples' dogs jump up on me when I'm just trying to walk down the sidewalk.

I like to take walks myself too, but in walkable districts downtown usually. I
can't take a dog there, because that would require taking a dog on the subway,
which isn't allowed (thankfully). I honestly don't see how dogs even make any
sense in a city for people who don't have cars. They make some sense I guess
as a rural or suburban pet, but lately it seems like every single woman in my
city (DC) has one.

~~~
tjr225
> I honestly don't see how dogs even make any sense in a city for people who
> don't have cars.

Why would you think that dogs that live in the city get any less exercise than
a dog who lives in the suburbs or somewhere rural? Often cities are more
walkable than the alternative.

~~~
magduf
>Why would you think that dogs that live in the city get any less exercise
than a dog who lives in the suburbs or somewhere rural? Often cities are more
walkable than the alternative.

You can't take dogs on the train. So if your apartment is in a nice, walkable
place and you don't mind _never_ walking someplace else in the city, then ok.
But if you want to walk in a different neighborhood miles away that you need
to get to by subway, then forget it; you can't bring your dog there.

I don't even know how you'd get your dog to the vet in a city, unless perhaps
you can get an Uber driver to let you bring it in the car with you (not too
sure about that; I wouldn't want to ride in an Uber/Lyft after someone had a
dog in there, and other customers could very well be allergic, so services
like this would be wise to ban dogs).

~~~
miranda_rights
I guess it depends where you live. My city (SF) allows dogs on public transit
in off peak hours. The 24/7 animal hospital is 1.5 miles away from my
apartment. If it were a real emergency (minutes to live), I can zipcar or uber
since my dog is carrier trained and I'd be happy to pay a $50 tip in exchange
for letting us ride for an emergency of that urgency. (As of recently, Uber is
piloting a pet-friendly option in select cities as well, although this doesn't
apply to me yet). In the suburbs, when I had a car, I lived about 15 miles
away from the animal hospital so it's not actually better.

My dog gets significantly more exercise now than when I lived in the suburbs
because there are more parks, interesting sights, etc right outside my door
and I don't have to drive to them. But otherwise, sure, I'll walk. According
to my fitbit I take about 25k - 30k steps a day so walking a little extra to
get to a different neighborhood isn't a big deal to me.

Edit: It appears that dogs are allowed on the train/bus in DC if they are in
carriers.

~~~
magduf
>Edit: It appears that dogs are allowed on the train/bus in DC if they are in
carriers.

With a "toy" breed, that's easy. With some 80-100 pound dog, good luck with
that. I don't know many people capable of lifting that much weight easily,
certainly not all the single women in this area that have big dogs.

~~~
miranda_rights
That seems fair? They might have cars then. It seems you're imaging a scenario
of a specific single woman with slight muscle mass with her 100lb dog and no
car living in the heart of DC. I'm sure there are a few but I doubt that's the
norm.

------
INTPenis
In my periods of sadness I wouldn't have left the house if it weren't for my
dog. And in all other times she's the reason I take the bicycle to the beach
or the woods. Even after 2 years I still melt seeing her joy when running
around free in a good environment. Living in a city means I must move to get
to that environment.

------
killjoywashere
Anybody have ready comparison numbers for "modern miracles" like statins and
ACE inhibitors? Because 24% reduction in mortality is, in medicine, a
staggering number when you're looking at something as prevalent as heart
disease (roughly 50% of people will die of an heart attack).

Edit, here's some starters:

ACE inhibitors: 5%
([https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23750680](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23750680))

Statins: no benefit
([https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/416105))

Aspirin: might actually be bad for you
([https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1803955](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1803955))

~~~
kerkeslager
Well, to start, you can't compare an intervention (starting an ACE inhibitor
treatment) to an existent factor (they already own a dog). If you're going to
compare apples to apples, you've got to compare starting an ACE inhibitor
treatment to starting to own a dog.

It may sound farfetched, but there's nothing in the OP that indicates the
direction of causality to me, so it's possible that lower cardiovascular risk
causes people to go out and get dogs, or that there's some root cause which
causes people to both have lower cardiovascular risk and higher chance of
owning a dog.

------
qmmmur
People who have the means to own and care for a dog will probably have a
better diet, less stress, more time to exercise and go to the doctor. I doubt
dogs have a magical health aura.

~~~
jlg23
They have. Having to walk them turns every couch potato into someone who is
spending, depending on size & agility of the dog, 30min to 2h outdoors ,
walking. Every single day.

They also tend to pester you for food or walks roughly at the same times every
day, so, no matter how irregular your lifestyle was, there suddenly is a
wireless alarm clock all day. Every single day. (Kids are much better at this,
though).

In the EU and US at least, you can get this all for free: Sign up as a
volunteer at the next animal shelter, commit to walking one of their dogs
twice a day, 7 days a week :)

~~~
greggman2
Isn't that only people who have a dog in an apartment? For people who have a
house with a backyard the dog walks and runs around in the backyard. Growing
up at least that was the norm in my neighborhood. Lots of neighbors and us
included had a dog, rarely saw people walking them. We played with our dogs
often as kids but taking them for a walk was rare.

~~~
robohoe
This is purely anecdotal and dependent on location/neighborhood. In my
suburban ‘hood with white picket fences, you see people walking dogs everyday
- and we’re not an exactly good example of a walkable neighborhood.

------
jeffml84
I recently got a "rescue" and she is something else. It's difficult to think
of them as just animals.

Sometimes I feel guilty for being stressed, I feel like she's soaking it all
up and I'm stressing her out.

Incredibly empathetic animals.

~~~
defterGoose
They _are_ more than animals in that they're one of the only animals that
would be considered a family member. Really makes you consider whether "love"
is a noun or a verb.

~~~
jeffml84
Honestly, I used to say things like "I understand you care about your pets,
but you should not love them equal to a human. We should be aware of how we
value animals compared to humans."

Then I got a dog.

:P

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ben7799
I'm sure this is legit but I wonder how they controlled for people who just go
for a walk and/or get exercise every day even if they don't have a dog?

But no disagreement, if you're a couch potato who is not otherwise motivated
to go for a walk the dog will be an ultra powerful motivator, and you're not
going for a walk alone.

~~~
awillen
Yeah, I've always said the best exercise plan I ever started was getting a dog
who had severe separation anxiety and would destroy all my shit if left alone
even briefly without adequate exercise (and he's a young husky mix, so we're
talking 5+ brisk miles).

He's doing much better with the anxiety now, but we're still walking miles
every day.

------
Kaibeezy
_Pooling the data of 3 837 005 participants, dog ownership was associated with
a 24% risk reduction for all-cause mortality as compared to nonownership
(relative risk, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.67–0.86).

In analyses of studies evaluating cardiovascular mortality, dog ownership
conferred a 31% risk reduction for cardiovascular death (relative risk, 0.69;
95% CI, 0.67–0.71; I2, 5.1%).

Dog ownership is associated with lower risk of death over the long term, which
is possibly driven by a reduction in cardiovascular mortality. These results
hold implications for future studies on lifestyle interventions._

~~~
tomp
> dog ownership was associated with a 24% risk reduction for all-cause
> mortality

What does that mean? Do dog owners have only 76% chance of dying, as opposed
to 100% like the rest of us? I'm probably misinterpreting the statement...

~~~
jonasmst
Usually, in survival analysis, it means that at any point in time, the
likelihood of an event (e.g. death, heart-disease, whatever they're measuring)
occurring for dog-owners is 76% of that of non-dog owners. The risk varies
from time to time, e.g. with age, and it's 76% of that risk. If the risk at a
certain point is 10% for non-dog owners, it's 7.6% for dog owners. It's not
like dog people are immortal.

~~~
asdkhadsj
> It's not like dog people are immortal.

Depends on how many dogs you own. With enough dogs, you can invert your death
likelihood stats. Though, I imagine that would mean as you age, you buy more
dogs.

Moving to the country seems required to house all of the dogs. Furthermore,
the number of dogs would depend on how the math worked on the 76% of risk.
Perhaps for true immortality we'd need an infinite number of dogs.

------
bluedino
The bad part about a dog is that it will only be around for 8-15 years.

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
To love is to accept suffering.

~~~
defterGoose
Huh, is this a quote from somewhere?

~~~
AnIdiotOnTheNet
Not that I'm aware of, it's just how it is. Everything is ephemeral, so we
allow ourselves to love in the knowledge that it is not forever, and that when
it ends, no matter how it ends, it will be painful. To love something is to
extend your concept of self to encompass it, and when it is gone it will be as
though a piece of yourself has been torn from you. We accept this
inevitability regardless, because to love is better than the alternative.

------
modi15
Had to walk my dog after dinner for atleast 30mins EVERY SINGLE DAY while he
was around. That itself should account for this.

~~~
samwhiteUK
The way you say that makes me think you underestimated having a dog, or
somehow think that your dog in particular was hard work..

~~~
modi15
I actually didnt go out and got a dog for myself - I somehow got possession of
him through a coincidental sequence of events.

I didn't mean that my dog in particular was hard work - I guess all dogs are
like this and which is why they accrue the claimed health benefits to their
caretakers.

------
henvic
I found a dog about 7 months ago in the streets on the beach in my hometown in
Brazil and moved to the Netherlands three weeks ago with him.

After a couple of weeks taking care of him (and trying to find the previous
owner - who might have abandoned him or not), I was very attached. Actually,
during my last job interview for my current job here in NL, I was cuddling him
as I spoke with the interviewers (my current coworkers). Not sure if that
helped, but for sure, I felt more confident and calm. Once I accepted their
offer, I knew I just couldn't leave him behind.

------
oldgradstudent
So healthy people like to own dogs?

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magwa101
In related news, walking one or two times per day, for any duration, reduces
cardiovascular disease.

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simonebrunozzi
Slightly off-topic, but I am looking into good ways to train a dog (books,
etc). Anybody has any recommendation?

~~~
Jemaclus
Find a local dog trainer! They're worth every penny.

