
Russia reveals secret diamond field containing "trillions of carats" - pavel_lishin
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2012/0917/Russia-reveals-shiny-state-secret-It-s-awash-in-diamonds
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ChuckMcM
So I'd really like some explanation of this tidbit:

 _"According to the official news agency, ITAR-Tass, the diamonds at Popigai
are "twice as hard" as the usual gemstones, making them ideal for industrial
and scientific uses."_

Oh really? I'm familiar with different crystal structure or impurities that
can make some diamonds 10 - 25% harder than gemstone class diamonds but 100%
harder? That is a new one for me.

And I agree with others a trillion carets of diamond where the largest crystal
is .1 caret is not as big a deal where you get 1 - 10 caret diamonds in there
as well.

~~~
Ingaz
It's new for me also.

[http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=ru&tl...](http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fscience%2F20120917%2F752346830.html)

"It is not a diamond. Hardness of this phase (lonsdaleite) 1.54 times higher
than that of diamond, and since we have here a nanosized crystallites of cubic
diamond and lonsdaleite - it is very sticky matrix that defines high
performance Popigai impactites. Lonsdaleite share in some specimens can reach
70%, "- said the official.

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ck2
Whatever happened to those guys who were making diamonds that could not be
detected, I think in Miami?

<http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond_pr.html>

~~~
calciphus
Like most of the people in the artificial diamond industry, they either were
bought out, threatened and changed their process, or were killed.

EDIT: Actually, looks like they went out of business. I'm betting execution
didn't match promises.

Artificial gems that try to pass as "real" diamonds have to commit a lot of
forgery, not just at the molecular level. Forging the mining certificates, the
registration (with GIA, IGS, or other certification services) which actually
look at when and where this diamond was mined, etc.

Even if you could perfectly recreate diamonds, you'd find very quickly that
selling them for anything other than industrial purposes would be a huge
challenge. Jewelers and distributors don't want to piss off DeBeers. Anyone
showing up with any kind of volume and quality product that has gone "around"
DeBeers somehow would raise far more suspicion than it's worth.

Source: I worked in the jewelry industry for 2 years, and we occasionally had
people try and sell us unmarked/unrated diamonds. Totally not worth the
trouble.

~~~
xanados
Gemesis is the company mentioned in the article and they still exist. You can
buy lab diamonds from their website, even. Of course, they haven't transformed
the industry because they are profit motivated, so they just sell their
diamonds at 20-30% off rather than at their marginal cost to produce or
something.

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pbhjpbhj
From the article:

> _Russian scientists say the news is likely to change the shape of global
> diamond markets_ //

Now colour me skeptical but they admit to keeping it a secret to manipulate
the diamond prices; what are the chances that they are overplaying the find
for the same reason?

~~~
rustynails77
If you want to talk about manipulating diamond prices, just read about DeBeers
- you would be hard pressed to manipulate any market more than diamonds. I
wouldn't buy a diamond if you paid me. Want to know the real value of a
diamond? Try to sell it. Then I PROMISE you will know the value of a diamond.

~~~
ghshephard
As it turns out, diamonds fall into a particularly important category of
objects which are both (A) Expensive to purchase, but simultaneously (B) Have
little resale value.

It is these properties that make them ideal in the context of a marriage
proposal. From a game theoretic position, it demonstrates serious intent on
the part of the proposer, in that they can't afford to propose to many
partners, while, at the same time, protecting (mostly) the proposer from gold
diggers, as the person being proposed to will not be able to resell that ring
to others.

People who buy diamond rings, therefore, are actually rational actors.

~~~
philwelch
Let's discuss the requirements for an ideal marriage proposal gift:

1\. Provides a physical, wearable symbol of commitment.

2\. Is impossible to resell.

3\. Represents a significant economic expenditure.

Mutual tattoos, for instance, satisfy 1 and 2 much better than diamonds, while
compromising significantly on 3. But what 3 is really getting at is a
demonstration of commitment, and on that count tattoos are even better. You
might be able to scrape up more money to buy a ring and propose to another
partner later, but unlike diamonds, tattoos really are forever.

The problem with diamonds is that, especially if you follow the old guideline
that an engagement ring should cost two months' salary (!), they only
demonstrate to a gold digger how much wealth she will be able to extort in the
future. Besides, gold diggers will generally enjoy diamonds purely as a status
symbol and will generally waste your money on dumb shit that's more similar to
diamonds than, say, mutual funds. Her inability to resell the diamond doesn't
really factor much into her consideration; the diamond already is what she
wants, not the sentiment behind it or the economic power to spend your wealth
any more sensibly than that.

~~~
ghshephard
Actually - I like the tattoo concept. In order for it to be effective, it's
not that it has to "Represent a significant economic expenditure" - rather, it
has to be something that makes it infeasible for the proposer to do many
times. A large economic (for the proposer) commitment is one way of doing this
- but tattoos (or better yet, branding/scarring) would be even better.

With regards to the problems with diamonds. Totally agree, I think they are
absolutely stupid. In a reasonable/responsible world, the proposer would have
to demonstrate the ability to provide material food/water/energy/shelter
security. Now that, has "real" value to me.

But, I'm clearly not the target for an engagement ring.

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ivan78
It's a fake. <http://ria.ru/science/20120917/752346830.html> Google translate:
<http://tinyurl.com/9kqjr3t>

TLDR: There are so called "technical diamonds", they are not good enough for
jewelry, bat can be used for making tools, such as drills, etc.

~~~
Cthulhu_
Doesn't make it fake; iirc the article doesn't state the diamonds being of
gemstone quality / purpose.

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nvmc
No doubt a couple or three people are sweating profusely over at DeBeers.

~~~
CapitalistCartr
These are industrial diamonds; nothing Debeers need worry about.

------
s_henry_paulson
Small diamonds barely material for jewels and difficult to extract.

Not a surprise they're not keeping it a secret, otherwise they would only be
hurting themselves by driving prices down.

~~~
001sky
Context: They _already_ kept this a secret since the 1970s

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vadimoss
did someone calculate how many startups could be funded of this piece of
jewel:)?

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ktizo
So, banks like barclays have been treating diamonds like money, and Russia
chooses now to try and upset the diamond industry.

This should be fun.

~~~
praptak
> So, banks like barclays have been treating diamonds like money

Citation needed. Any appraiser with half a brain knows that diamonds' resale
value is almost none. I'd be surprised to find a bank putting their money in
diamonds. With toxic assets you'd have at least a chance of resale before the
inevitable bust.

~~~
ktizo
_"Last September, Israel's major banks quietly informed the Israeli government
that they faced losses of disastrous proportions from defaulted accounts
almost entirely collateralized with diamonds. Three of Israel's largest
banks—the Union Bank of Israel, the Israel Discount Bank, and Barclays
Discount Bank—had loans of some $660 million outstanding to diamond dealers,
which constituted a significant portion of the bank debt in Israel. To be
sure, not all of these loans were in jeopardy; but, according to bank
estimates, defaults in diamond accounts rose to 20 percent of their loan
portfolios. The crisis had to be resolved either by selling the diamonds that
had been put up as collateral, which might precipitate a worldwide selling
panic, or by some sort of outside assistance from the Israeli government or De
Beers or both. The negotiations provided only stopgap assistance: De Beers
would buy back a small proportion of the diamonds, and the Israeli government
would not force the banks to conform to banking regulations that would result
in the liquidation of the stockpile."_

from the article about trying to sell diamonds -
[http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-
you...](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-you-ever-
tried-to-sell-a-diamond/304575/6/)

~~~
Quizz
Article from 1982, less relevant today. No bank today would ever use diamond
as an asset or collateral.

~~~
ktizo
oh shit.. Excuse my dumbness for not checking the date on it.

