
Damn It All: The Penguin Book of Hell - apollinaire
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/12/20/damn-it-all-book-of-hell/
======
SyneRyder
_> "Demons - here called the “angels of Tartarus” - carry out special tortures
designed for particular types of sinners."_

I thought the name Tartarus seemed familiar, so I looked up Wikipedia, and it
describes Tartarus as "the deep abyss that is used as a dungeon of torment and
suffering for the wicked".

Tartarus was also the name of the student email server at my university when I
was studying computer science.

~~~
mcguire
It's originally Greek, I believe. (My OED is being unhelpful.) A name for the
underworld; no punishments, but an eternity of playing Yahtzee with your great
aunt in the grey mist.

~~~
tivert
> A name for the underworld; no punishments, but an eternity of playing
> Yahtzee with your great aunt in the grey mist.

I believe that's wrong. _Hades_ was the greek name for the underworld,
_Tararus_ was the place within it for the punishment of the wicked, _Asphodel
Meadows_ was the indifferent place for indifferent people, and _Elysium_ was
the rewarding place for the especially glorious and distinguished.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_underworld#Geography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_underworld#Geography)

~~~
abakker
Tartarus was also the place where the Titans (The Elder Gods of Greek
mythology) were cast when Zeus and his siblings ascended to Mount Olympus
(Zeus's father Chronos(Saturn) included).

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mensetmanusman
Fascinating expose of a manifestation of humanity’s desire for justice.

I’m reminded that I find it odd that Moloch is still referenced by the
American elite in passing: U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2016-07895 Doc
No. C06131616

~~~
thedailymail
Moloch is also the thematic devil in my favorite essay on Slate Star Codex,
which is kind of a modern theodicy replacing the question of "Why does an
omnipotent God allow bad things to happen?" with "Why do we, as thinking,
feeling beings allow bad systems to persist?"

Joseph Vogl asked this same question about why "efficient" markets allow
inefficient ouctomes in his book Oikodicy.

[http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-
moloch/](http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/)

[https://stanfordpress.typepad.com/blog/2015/08/the-end-of-
an...](https://stanfordpress.typepad.com/blog/2015/08/the-end-of-an-
illusion.html)

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KineticLensman
For a SF take on hell, see "Surface Detail" by Ian M Banks. This takes place
in his Culture [0] universe, and details how various societies maintain
virtual hells, some specifically to punish (now dead) citizens who previously
uploaded their personalities into their society's virtual spaces.

[spoiler]

One of the characters in the book is an alien female who has hacked into her
society's hell to expose its horrors to doubters in 'the Real'. She becomes
trapped and (long story short) becomes an angel of death whose special gift /
eternal punishment is to be able to release from hell one trapped soul per
day. Unfortunately, every time she does this, she takes some of their pain
upon herself.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture_(series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture_\(series\))

~~~
arethuza
Some similar is hinted at in Vinge's _A Fire Upon the Deep_ , also the ending
of _A Colder War_ by Charlie Stross.

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codeulike
_Eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God 's infinite love._

~~~
krapp
What choice does God have, He doesn't make the rules.

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intralizee
> Voltaire: “My good friend, I no more believe in the eternity of hell than
> yourself; but recollect that it may be no bad thing, perhaps, for your
> servant, your tailor, and your lawyer to believe in it.”

I'm not sure why humans have to dream up a Hell or Heaven after death. It
appears to be obstinate refusal of observing what's right in front of them..
On what we call earth. You can either observe someone in Hell or Heaven and
it's not like anyone has any real control over the matter. My whole life was
pointed in one direction and there has never been any choice for me.
/determinist

I think it's a bad thing to believe in afterlife and when what's in front of
you is all that should be considered. Reason being, maybe it prolongs people
having to be in Hell and not just Heaven.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
>I'm not sure why humans have to dream up a Hell or Heaven after death.

Weird way to exclude yourself, but ok.

The article to me explained that the idea of heaven and hell is a
manifestation of justice. That even if YOU can’t do anything to them, bad
people will eventually suffer and good people will eventually be rewarded.
Nicer to believe than the alternative. Did you read the article?

~~~
jimktrains2
Is it nicer than the alternative? Many people are perfectly ok with death
being the end. Many people don't need some affirmation of themselves or others
to believe in.

Also, wishing for the unending torture for someone who's slighted you is a
very non-christian, non-most-religeons way of thinking.

~~~
SlowRobotAhead
>Also, wishing for the unending torture for someone who's slighted you is a
very non-christian, non-most-religeons way of thinking.

You know it’s pretty much a key tenant of Christianity to pray for the souls
of those that have harmed you or others right?

~~~
jimktrains2
My understanding is that that's only Catholics and, only for those in
purgatory. However, it's never been clear to my why the petitions help the
person.

~~~
dragonwriter
> My understanding is that that's only Catholics

No, it mostly just some subset of Protestants that reject it (the practice is
common, as well as in Roman Catholicism and some Protestant communities, in
the Eastern and Oriental [despite etymological similarity, these are not
synonyms] Orthodox Churches, and, apparently, the Assyrian Church of the
East.)

> and, only for those in purgatory.

It's true that in the Catholic tradition, there is a special connection
between prayers for the dead and purgatory (arguably, purgatory as a doctrine
is a Catholic explanation for the ancient Christian practice of prayers for
the dead.)

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mirimir
It's too bad that he didn't cover Hinduism.

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aetherspawn
Perhaps tangential, but Jehovah’s Witnesses consider themselves Christain (the
article refers to ‘modern Christains’ collectively as believing in hell, but
I’m not sure that’s actually accurate; perhaps they meant Catholics? Do born-
again or LTS believe in hell?) but don’t believe in hell because as the
article also states, it isn’t mentioned in either the Hebrew or Greek
scriptures.

The origin of hell is probably pagan.

~~~
Breza
As a Christian, I accept that God is impossibly complex. The Bible uses a lot
of memes that were well known at the time to describe God. We run into trouble
when people start to look at those memes as if they were meant literally.

~~~
krapp
Why do you believe they weren't meant literally?

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amelius
Next time I'm in a hotel, it will be tempting to replace that book in the
bedside table by this one.

