
North Korea 2013 – A travel journal - personlurking
http://www.dominik-schwarz.net/reisen/nordkorea2013/
======
spodek
Hacker News loves North Korea!

I can't help but share some videos from my second trip there --
[http://joshuaspodek.com/summary-of-north-korea-
videos](http://joshuaspodek.com/summary-of-north-korea-videos). Especially the
ones singing with North Koreans in Kim Il Sung Square, playing Frisbee with
kids, and all-around reinforcing that the people there are the same as people
everywhere, just in different environments.

~~~
RaphiePS
Did you go with Koryo Tours? I went the summer before last and it was
undoubtedly the most interesting trip I've ever taken. It definitely humanized
the people who were previously thought of, just a little bit, as "the enemy."
Waitresses giggling while singing karaoke, rowdy schoolboys asking for a
picture, soldiers laughing as we smashed into them on the Funfair bumper cars,
that sort of thing.

One thing we were surprised by was the openness of our guide. She asked us
what our country thought of North Korea, and wanted to hear all about our
elections and political system.

At first we thought it was genuine curiosity, but after a while and some
pretty dubious claims (come look at this _average farmworker 's_ house!
everyone in North Korea has a computer!), we suspected that it was designed to
"butter us up."

That, I think, was my only real problem with the trip. A lot of what I saw
surprised and impressed me (boy, could those children play their
instruments!), but I never knew if it was all a ruse for the tourists.

~~~
GuiA
Are you serious? Of course it is a ruse for the tourists- Koryo Tours is not
the only operator allowed to run trips there for no reason.

What you saw was just a show run by the North Korean government to further
their own agenda. The people that you saw are the people that Koryo Tours (and
by extension the government) wants you to see.

Make no mistake, the vast majority of North Korea is a giant interment camp.
This is more like what you would see if you were to go off the shiny beaten
track that Koryo tours makes you follow:
[http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1364601643](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1dd_1364601643)

~~~
kitcar
Reminds me 2 stories:

1) the Nazi's set up a "public friendly" concentration camp in the Czech
Republic, Theresienstadt (1), which they took officials from the Red Cross to
and used in media reports sent to the West which demonstrated the "rich Jewish
cultural life." of their camps.

2) Crazy Eddie, an electronics store in the early 1980's which turned out to
be a massive investor fraud, (2) had a warehouse filled with boxes so he could
have an audit, a necessity to go public - the first row of boxes were filled
with merchandise, the rest of the boxes were empty.

TL;DR - Humans are trusting people, show them something, and tell them
"everything else is just like this thing", and most people will believe you at
your word.

(1)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_concentration_ca...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresienstadt_concentration_camp)

(2)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie)

~~~
justinbeaver
In fairness to Crazy Eddie, they're prices were INSANE!

------
tokenadult
The caption for picture 28 is important: "At this point, it's probably
important to say that a typical street in Pyongyang is not a typical street in
North Korea. Residence in the nation's capital is reserved for the political
elite and their families, about 10% of the population. For the other ~22.7
million citizens, even visiting Pyongyang is not possible without a permit."

North Korea's control of even internal movement by its own citizens is more
strict than pretty nearly anywhere in the world. The photos and their captions
here are very illuminating about what Pyongyang looks like today, and I'm
grateful that this was submitted here, but Pyongyang is indeed not
representative of the northern part of Korea at all.

------
MattyRad
I think the author has a bias to show North Korea in a positive light (the
pristine pictures, jabs at commercialism, readiness to accept a tour as fact),
or, at least, tries to show a generous _understanding_ of such a country and
its culture. Personally, I think this does a disservice to actual testimony
from former citizens [1][2].

[1] [http://gawker.com/how-i-escaped-north-
korea-479759525/@ParkJ...](http://gawker.com/how-i-escaped-north-
korea-479759525/@ParkJiWoo)

[2] [http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201306/kim-
jong-i...](http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201306/kim-jong-il-
sushi-chef-kenji-fujimoto-adam-johnson-2013)

~~~
Mikeb85
It seems to me as though he's simply describing and showing what he saw.

North Koreans are people too, and even if the tour is scripted and carefully
controlled, the people he met were still real.

Edit - this is a fascinating documentary by another tourist who went to the
DPRK: [http://documentary.net/dprk-the-land-of-whispers-north-
korea...](http://documentary.net/dprk-the-land-of-whispers-north-korea-travel-
documentary/)

Again, lots of curated 'positive' images for the regime, a few hidden camera
moments, and some fairly real commentary from the guy who filmed it.

~~~
hartator
I am kind of agree with MattyRad.

It's giving out a good light on North Korea saying overall it's different from
our systems but not in bad way just different. Like the metro, where he is
saying there is 16 stations and 3 lines and regular koreans are using it while
we tend to think otherwise. Or, the final show that's one of the best he has
ever seen. Like forgetting the slave labor behind it. Oh, no yeah, only one
photo describing slave labor when he is talking about the south korea sending
work to the north. Like if the south korea is responsible of the slavery of
the north...

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pekk
Just make sure you are not a veteran of any war, or in any other way
objectionable, before going. Because then you have a good chance of being
detained and paraded around with a false confession.

The purpose of this "tourism," other than propaganda, is to get hard cash to
the government of North Korea

~~~
EliRivers
It's a very small amount of hard currency compared to their main sources of
hard currency; I suspect that if they took the resources they devote to
tourism and instead put them into boosting their other revenue streams, they'd
get more money.

Furthermore, a lot of the hard currency from the tourists does not go directly
to the government but instead seeps into the hands of tour guides and other
people the group encounters.

------
alphydan
>> In summer 2013 I traveled to the most isolated country in the world.

I thought it was the pitcairn islands ... (population 65, boat every 3 months
...)

~~~
WildUtah
The Pitcairners aren't exactly a country. The UN calls them a non-self
governing territory under jurisdiction of the UK.

I think Bhutan is the most isolated real country. NK is second. You'd much
rather be a Bhutanese, though; by extreme contrast to NK, Bhutan is considered
by many the happiest nation on Earth.

------
adrow
I'm always fascinated by images from NK, bit of a shame in this case that the
captions are plastered in the middle of them.

~~~
bhauer
I have mixed feelings about the site. I for one feel guilt when reaping a
small amount of enjoyment feeding my curiosity about the North Korean people
and culture. I feel Western tourists are playing to the regime's interests,
even if only in a small way, which furthers the enslavement of the people.
It's fascinating to view, but I feel something similar to the bit of guilt
about the conditions of captive animals when visiting a zoo.

That said, design-wise, I initially was a little apprehensive about the
caption location but ultimately applaud the designer for trying something
unconventional. Rather than the caption location, my gripe is that unless you
size your window to the photo's original aspect ratio (the photos appear to be
2000x1333), you're going to be cropping off some of the content. I knew
something was awry when I got to photo 12 ("Skyline with Pyramid") and could
not see the pyramid because my browser window was too narrow.

Despite my mixed feelings about the content, and my misgivings about Westerns
visiting North Korea in general, I don't have the willpower to _not_ view the
photos, and they are quite remarkable. Thanks for sharing!

------
Saus
For those visiting Beijing in the near future. Koryo has a 'day-trip' option
to DPRK! You can board the night train at 18:00 and arrive at 07:00 at the
border in Dandong. You hop in DPRK and the tour there starts at 08:30. At
18:31 your train leaves which will bring you back to Beijing (arrive 10:10 the
following morning).

Don't forget to get a double-entry visa! At this point only 40 western tourist
visited this part of DPRK! I'm aiming for a visit early January.

~~~
resu
A tour of Sinuiju?

------
RyanZAG
Has anybody ever played Jagged Alliance 2? You lead a band of mercenaries to
free a country from a dictator. You start in the north and everyone is
starving, then you eventually end up fighting in the south where the
politically connected live, and it's all tanks in big white mansions.

I felt that matches up pretty well with North Korea.

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breakall
Why isn't the advance button be in a fixed position? Why make the advance
button's position dependent on some other dynamic element, like the text
length in this case? This makes going through the slideshow very tedious.

Fascinating content, however.

~~~
k-mcgrady
If you are on a device with a keyboard you can use the arrow keys to advance.

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dualogy
Wow, pics 57-61 showcase thousands of humans syncing together as... display
pixels!

~~~
rfnslyr
NK is so far behind in the times they literally have human LCD's.

~~~
dualogy
... or way ahead of us ....... (ominous gloomy face)

------
resu
I find these pictures to be very misleading. Did the author have his camera
'checked' and all the not so great pictures deleted when crossing back into
China?

Because when I went there what's shown in the pictures represents only what
they want you to see. You can see a lot of poverty, undernourishment, and lack
of basic infrastructure even if you follow the approved tour route to the
letter. He managed to snap a lot of pictures from his bus, so why not show the
less impressive shots as well? It's impossible to not see any this when you
traverse the whole country from north to south.

~~~
surge
If you look at his blog, and read the captions you get an idea of how
controlled his experience is.

First, the camera doesn't get checked (although it might have been) because
they have a "no photos" rule in certain places, like the mausoleum. The tour
is guided and controlled and he never allowed to go anywhere or leave on his
own, so he is only taken to the best places DPRK has to offer.

The simple reason for not having less impressive shots is he was never taken
anywhere or allowed to take pictures where things were less impressive. It's
not misleading, he only had pictures of the places he was allowed to go (which
they wouldn't likely let him into areas that gave him a negative impression)
and was allowed to use his camera.

~~~
resu
You are not allowed to take photos while sitting in a vehicle at any time.

Trust me, I've been on this same tour. If he managed to sneak those pictures
from the bus he could have taken a lot more.

What I'm saying is that when you are taken on a tour of many parts of the
city, and around the country, it is impossible to hide the reality of the
situation there, no matter how hard the government tries (and it does try very
hard with its limited resources).

------
pradocchia
Pyongyang looks like Beijing in the 1990s: same road design, same light
traffic, same electric bus lines, lots of bikes, lots of simple concrete
construction, a few glitzy high rises.

~~~
rtsisyk
Yeah, had the same thought after viewing the albums. However, modern Beijing
looks more capitalistic than U.S. and Western Europe cities:
[http://www.flickr.com/photos/romantsisyk/sets/72157633627597...](http://www.flickr.com/photos/romantsisyk/sets/72157633627597776/)

------
power2u
I'm wondering if he was allowed to travel individually or as part of a group
(which is controlled by NK).

If anyone is interested, here is a great documentary which I say a few days
back:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oULO3i5Xra0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oULO3i5Xra0)

~~~
dominotw
I don't think an average person can travel to DPRK on his/her own.

~~~
steveklabnik
You can...

For example, Merrill Newman (who has been in the news lately) was taking a 10
day vacation there when he was detained.

~~~
mikeash
But not individually. You have to sign up for a group tour.

~~~
steveklabnik
Ah, you mean that kind of individually. I thought you meant "I'm not a
journalist or a diplomat" individually.

~~~
mikeash
Well, it wasn't me, but that's what I got from the "which is controlled by NK"
comment. In short, I think he wanted to know if you could just go wander
around without having government minders watching you all the time.

~~~
steveklabnik
Whoops, my apologies for not double checking usernames.

~~~
mikeash
No problem, I'm _pretty sure_ you're not the first person to make that
mistake.

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b0rsuk
North Korea is - for the wrong reasons - a beautiful country.

It's not as crowded, filled with cars, smog and litter as "developed
countries". It's not as dirty, crowded and poor as India. It's filled with
trees, quiet, clean. Buildings look okay from afar. Almost an eco-utopia.

------
grecy
It's great to see images where billboards and signs advertising junk are not
covering every square millimeter. Even the author mentions "The way you think
about consumption is entirely different"

New Zealand has a law limiting advertising like this, and it's fantastic.

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gambiting
I was always fascinated by cars in North Korea - how are they imported there?
How do people fill up? How would you get a driver's licence? Does the concept
of speeding even exist?

Also - I think that in the second picture there is a BMW to the bottom left?

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ejdyksen
Semi-working mirror: [http://www.dominik-
schwarz.net.nyud.net/reisen/nordkorea2013...](http://www.dominik-
schwarz.net.nyud.net/reisen/nordkorea2013/)

------
benhirashima
i found this collection of photos surprisingly illuminating. i feel like i
have a better understanding of north korea just from seeing them.

------
jorge-d
Great pictures, Thank you for sharing this!

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sakopov
This was like going back in time to Soviet Russia of 1960s.

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qwerty_asdf
This annotated photo gallery is unusable without JavaScript.

Why?

~~~
thesis
The answer to your question most likely is: Because that's how they wanted to
make it.

