
Why the Brain Needs More Downtime (2013) - tim_sw
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mental-downtime/
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laydn
I've been noticing that I'm more tired and need more downtime in days where I
make, (or forced to make), critical decisions.

If I start the day by knowing what to do, then I don't really feel the
burnout. For example, if I'm designing either a piece of hardware or firmware,
and I know how to tackle the problem and it is just the matter of implementing
it, I can code/design for 10 hours straight and when the workday ends, I still
feel full of energy.

However, if the day is full of "decisions" (engineering or managerial), at the
end of the day, I feel exhausted (and irritable, according to my family)

~~~
ivanhoe
I've noticed this especially for inconclusive situations, when you need to
make a call and you're not 100% (or even 90%) sure what's the right choice.
These drain my energy more than anything. Combination of a need for prolonged
high mental alertness and hight stress levels caused by uncertain outcome just
burns through you. On the other hand some people, like gamblers, get an
ultimate kick out of this.

~~~
deepGem
I think, more than the outcome, it's the window of uncertainty that burns
through you. Gamblers get a kick because the uncertainty window is fairly
short. I'd bet that they'll flip when faced with an extremely long uncertainty
window, like closing a corporate sales deal, or waiting for a job offer.

~~~
ams6110
I'm guessing this must also have quite an effect on people who find themselves
charged with a crime or even a civil claim. The snail's pace of most
proceedings could keep you in a very uncertain situation for many months.
Can't be mentally healthy, particularly considering the possibly severe
negative outcome.

With something like a job offer, if you don't get the job you're no worse off
than you were before. There's really only an upside potential. That has got to
be less stressful.

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jmcgough
I find that I struggle with offices... you're stuck there for 8+ hours (even
if you don't work that way, you need to create an impression), but after
several hour of intense focus and the noise and chaos of an open office, I can
feel drained and anxious. Some days I'll walk to a nearby park with wifi after
work, meditate for a short bit, and then code from there. My focus and
creativity comes right back after a bit of downtime in a relaxing space.

~~~
Boothroid
I have to work in windowless offices commonly. Every couple of hours I'll go
outside and stare at the sun (with my eyes shut) just to give my brain a boost
of daytime hormones. Works well. Only works in summer though!

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maxxxxx
That's one of the reasons I like working from home. I can look out the window
and think about things. Most bosses like that too. Its hard to understand that
a lot of companies think that people working in windowless, loud offices is a
good thing.

~~~
kerbalspacepro
I think most companies don't think the windowless thing is good... it's just
not relevant. They don't care, or it is closer to the manufacturing floor or
it's just, honestly, expedient. The vast majority of company management chains
simply don't care about their performers.

~~~
stult
Or it's relevant for the opposite purpose when it's a secured environment.

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ihateneckbeards
I noticed I can be intensely focused for about 4 to 6 hours max, after that
I'll be "washed out" and I become error prone for complicated tasks

Unfortunately the 9 hour in office format constrain me to stay on my seat, so
I'll try work on easier things at that time while beeing quite unproductive

How to we bring this fact to companies? It seems only the most ""progressive""
companies like Facebook or Google really understood this

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jjeaff
Companies like Facebook and Google seem to understand that the least. Hence
the endless services and other perks meant to keep you on "campus" as long as
possible.

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ihateneckbeards
Well they give you the opportunity to have down time when appropriate. And
when you don't treat your employees like factory workers - surprise! They stay
more with better satisfaction

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dodorex
"Some researchers have proposed that people are also physiologically inclined
to snooze during a 2 P.M. to 4 P.M. “nap zone”—or what some might call the
afternoon slump—because the brain prefers to toggle between sleep and wake
more than once a day."

Anecdotally, Thomas Edison was said to sleep only 3-4 hours a night and take
frequent (very frequent) naps throughout the day.

[https://www.brainpickings.org/2013/02/11/thomas-edison-on-
sl...](https://www.brainpickings.org/2013/02/11/thomas-edison-on-sleep-and-
success/)

~~~
epalmer
I'm extremely lucky as I have an office with a door. Most days I take a very
short nap. It can be as short as 6 minutes but I like it to be 12 to 18
minutes. I drink a 1/2 cup of coffee before I nap most days. After darkening
my space, I sit upright in my chair, close my eyes and nap. I use a android
timer app and can glance at it with it if needed. I do find that most days I
go out for a few mins, glance at the timer, out again till I get the amount I
need in. I can turn around to my desk and be productive almost instantly after
that short break.

My workspace nap time is usually between 1:30PM and 3:00PM.

On some days when I can't nap or don't I am foggy for the rest of the work
day. On days when I nap this feeling is gone.

I 63 years old and love naps anyway. On the weekend I can nap in the corner of
the couch for 20 to 30 mins sitting up. I used to be a road (plane) warrior
and traveled for work 45 to 50 weeks a year. I had to learn to sleep wherever,
like airports, on the plane, etc. So now I can sleep anywhere most days.

For example if I go to the doctor's office and have a long wait I can tap a
nap if my body says it wants one.

My team is a team of 2 and they work in an open space outside of my door. They
seem to like it a lot but they respect each others need to be quiet.

We work with another dev/creative team that is in an open office and is 8
people and they hate the open space. Everyone has headphones on but phone
calls and visitors disrupt the quiet. Sometimes one of them comes to my open
space and sits at one of the tables to get some quiet time in.

Edit: typo

~~~
loco5niner
> Sometimes one of them comes to my open space and sits at one of the tables
> to get some quiet time in.

I would love to have that option in my open office.

~~~
epalmer
Right now the other half of the scrum team has been relocated to the football
stadium till office renovations are done. When the team practices they play
music loud to simulate crowd noises. So their open environment is worse than
imaginable.

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danreed07
I'm ambivalent about this. I have a friend whose a Harvard math major, I've
seen him work. He sleeps late and wakes early; when we work together, he
always messes up my schedule by calling me in the middle of the night. I'm all
tired and groggy the next day, and he's totally fine.

I think some people just inherently have more energy than others.

~~~
Moru
When I was younger I was like this. Sleep was 4-5 hours per night all days of
the week. I had no troubles keeping awake and had plenty of times for coding,
playing games and learn new stuff. And a fulltime job on top of that. Not so
much any more, I need at least 7 hours of sleep but haven't started realy with
coffee yet, don't believe the hype about it :-)

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uptownfunk
I think I get a good six hours of actual work in the office. And then I need
to check out and take a shower. Something about that after work shower just
brings my focus and clarity right back. But if I have to crank with my team
for a 12-15 hour day, after max 8 hours, we're all just physically there, but
mentally have checked out long before that.

On sleep, 5-6 hours is optimal for me. Too much can be bad, I feel groggy and
have brain-fog the rest of the day. I can get by on fewer for one day, but
more than that and it becomes painful. I think a lot of this also has to do
with lifestyle. How often and when do you eat, have sex, get sunlight, drink
water, go out doors, etc. Many levels can be played with here.

Would be interested in hearing any hacks for getting by on less sleep.

~~~
majewsky
> Would be interested in hearing any hacks for getting by on less sleep.

I would be very careful with that. 6 hours is already very low. We (as in:
science) could probably come up with a recommendation here if we had any
fucking clue why we actually sleep. There are of course a bunch of theories,
but nothing definite enough to base policy decisions on.

~~~
nnd
>> if we had any fucking clue why we actually sleep

To give rest to the body and the mind (to a lesser extent during REM sleep)?

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qaq
Best option I experienced was working remotely from PST on EST schedule. So
start at 6am done at 3 eat + have a drink take 1 hour nap and you have 8 hours
which after nap fills like a whole new day.

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nisa
I'm having a hard time organising and especially switching tasks and getting
meaningful work done when multiple things that are unrelated fall together.
Having a single thing do to and beeing able to just leave work would be great
but at the moment I'm freelancing and having multiple jobs and doing sysadmin-
style work, learning theory and programming in a new language really just
kills me and I'm not getting much done. Once I get traction in a certain task
it's okay but the constant switching is killing me.

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pedrodelfino
Great article. I remember seeing these ideas on Cal Newport's book, "Deep
Work". I need more discipline to execute my "downtime plan".

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hasenj
I've always had a hard time sleeping/waking on time. What you might call a
"night owl".

I'm starting to notice that on weekdays I actually perform better with 6 hours
of sleep rather than 8 or 9. Then on the weekend I would "sleep in" to make up
for the lost sleep time.

For some reason, if I sleep for 8 or 9 hours, I wake up feeling like I don't
want to do anything. I don't feel sluggish or anything. I just feel
"satisfied". Like there's nothing to be done. I can just "be". I can't bring
myself to focus on any specific task. Nothing feels urgent.

When I sleep 6 hours, somehow I can focus more.

This is combined with not consuming caffeine. If I drink coffee after I have
slept only for 6 hours, it makes me tired and sluggish.

~~~
echelon
Are you me?

I feel like many engineers are better and more productive late at night.
Mornings sap the energy from my body. I often need a solid three hours just to
"boot up", but at night I absolutely kill it with productivity.

I wish the world revolved more around our schedule.

~~~
bluejellybean
I find I work better at night as well. I have a hunch this is due to the lack
of distractions. One doesn't get many useless shoulder taps, phone calls, or
IMs at 3 in the morning.

