
Atlas, the Next Generation [video] - bpierre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVlhMGQgDkY
======
Nican
If people are interested in looking at more cool content on the subject, I
recommend you looking at:

\- [http://drc.mit.edu/technology/](http://drc.mit.edu/technology/)

\- [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cga/drc/](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cga/drc/)

\-
[https://github.com/RobotLocomotion/drake/wiki](https://github.com/RobotLocomotion/drake/wiki)

\- [http://robots.ihmc.us/humanoid-control-
workshop/videos](http://robots.ihmc.us/humanoid-control-workshop/videos)

I attended WPI during 2013-2014, and worked with Atlas. I am very excited and
impressed by Boston Dynamics. (And hopefully start working on the field
again.)

------
wfunction
Can someone explain what would be the single greatest challenge (from a
research perspective) in making such a robot today? For example, is it:

1\. The sensors?

2\. The actuators?

3\. Coming up with accurate dynamical models?

4\. Solving the models accurately?

5\. Solving the models efficiently?

6\. Making the models robust to inaccuracy/noise?

Yes, I realize all of these are probably hard. What I'm trying to understand
is whether the biggest challenge is coming up with e.g. an accurate (possibly
nonlinear) dynamical model, or with _solving_ the model (efficiency/accuracy),
or with making existing models that are otherwise already completely accurate
robust to outside noise, or with the manufacturing aspect (precision), or
whatever.

~~~
noir_lord
Power.

All the other technologies are increasing extremely rapidly but battery
technology isn't.

We are at a point where a breakthrough in batteries would have an incredible
effect across a huge number of fields.

~~~
kayoone
Everything is getting more power efficient though, so you will at least get
more computing power for the same amount of Watts.

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
Not everything. The energy required by physics for lifting boxes or driving a
car up a hill is pretty much fixed. Better batteries would help with both of
those.

~~~
noir_lord
Electric jets as well.

The energy to raise a fixed mass a certain height isn't going to change.

Not to mention an electric car with a thousand mile range would be huge.

~~~
rorykoehler
It would certainly put a whole new perspective on range anxiety.

------
irrlichthn
Watching that, especially that part starting at 1:23 makes you realize quickly
that in about 10 years, 95% of all jobs can be replaced by machines. Scary and
interesting at the same time.

~~~
edvinbesic
Does that mean we live in a happy utopia where 95% of the tedious/dangerous
work has been taken care of and we instead get to spend our time focusing on
what we find inspirational/creative, or do we live in a dystopia where 95% of
job opportunities have vanished and we can no longer sustain a consumption
based economy.

Maybe those are one and the same.

~~~
diskcat
Well when the cars were invented did people start living in a dystopia where
the car moguls owned mobility itself or did people just got around much faster
and had better lives in general.

~~~
TulliusCicero
It was mixed. People got around faster and stuff was cheaper. On the other
hand, we got fat and dependent on cars, which is particularly bad for the poor
(since cars are inherently expensive), and for kids' independence. That's why
you're seeing many metro areas starting to prioritize walking, biking, and
transit.

On balance the development of cars was good, obviously, but let's not kid
ourselves, the downsides were significant.

~~~
davidiach
I'm not sure if it is an established fact that people got fat because cars
came along (before cars there were carriages). I'd rather bet that diet is the
culprit.

~~~
TulliusCicero
Probably both, but I think they've shown at least a correlation between car
commute time and obesity.

------
karmicthreat
It has a great kinematic system. But with all those QR codes scattered around
it obviously has little knowledge of its environment. I think this
understanding and planning is going to be the big hurdle for Atlas style
robots rather than just walking around.

Just look at the number of types of door out there and what it would take for
a robot to figure out how to navigate it without having encountered the exact
door before. Its going to need to figure out that it is a door. Experiment to
find the unlatching mechanism. Figure out if the door swings or slides and in
what direction. Then open it without hitting its self and finally make its way
through. Then exporting the training data so other robots can learn it as
well.

~~~
hexagonc
The QR codes probably encode behavioral scripts to apply to an object that the
robot encounters. So a box with one QR code may mean that the robot should
attempt to pick it up even after interruption. A different QR code may mean
that the robot should give up if it is interrupted when picking up the box. A
different QR code may mean pick up box and move it to self. A QR code next to
a door may mean that the robot should exit it automatically when it gets
within a certain distance of it.

~~~
dbcurtis
very unlikely. they were probably used for localization. for instance,
locating door for egress, or computing a grasp for the box. grasp planning is
particularly difficult at the moment.

~~~
hexagonc
I think it could have dual purposes. There was an earlier segment of the video
where the robot was able to find and pick up a box and stack it on a shelf
without the presence of the QR codes. There are a lot of clever uses you could
put to QR codes as object and environment tagging. It would be effective at
encoding what to do and perhaps what can be done with the box. I used a
similar strategy to define behavior scripts for the Aldebaran NAO. I printed
out some barcodes and taped them to the walls so that if the NAO was exploring
an area and saw certain barcodes on the walls, it would do different things
based on the codes that were present. This way, I could do simple behavior
scripting without having to change the robot's programming.

------
otoburb
I half expected the video camera to turn around and show the audience that all
of the footage was shot by an Atlas model. Maybe that could be a stretch goal
for the next generation after Atlas.

~~~
optimusclimb
Do you work on Wall Street? When I watched this video, I definitely wasn't
thinking about stretch goals and what they DIDN'T yet manage to do :P

------
redcodenl
Watching the video, the only thing I see is robot abuse. #freeatlas!

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_P-
zl8QKp0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_P-zl8QKp0)

~~~
sunseb
Yes, that's kind of weird this empathy we feel toward these robots.

It's just a machine, yet it's so... human.

~~~
jules
A human is a machine.

~~~
joshschreuder
Have you played The Talos Principle?

~~~
Razengan
Or, perhaps better yet, Soma:
[http://store.steampowered.com/app/282140/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/282140/)

~~~
joshschreuder
SOMA was great too, that ending!

------
eatfish
When the robots become self aware that guy from 1:25 has it coming.

~~~
colordrops
I know this is (maybe?) a joke, but I've been seeing similar jokes everywhere.
Self-aware AIs in the future will probably be much more rational that humans,
utilizing game theory for every decision, and recognize that taking out
vengeance on a human that had no ill intent on a non-self aware prototype
would be a waste of energy and only bring about negative consequences.

I'm replying in seriousness because I too could imagine a world where this
video was marked as a historical artifact by AGIs and recognized for its
content.

~~~
kolinko
Did you read "strategy of conflict"? It explains why irrational behaviour is
the most optimal strategy sometimes.

~~~
colordrops
I haven't read it, but from a quick glimpse on Amazon, it looks to be a book
on game theory. Wouldn't a theory on strategy imply rational decision making?
Could you expound on what you are referring to?

~~~
kolinko
The strategy of conflict broadly extends the game theory. It includes
discussion of situations in which irrationality makes sense, and so on.

------
mrfusion
Does anyone known if it's walking using zero moment point like asimo? I
thought they were beyond that?

It doesn't seem to have a very natural gait. Very uncanny valley.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_moment_point](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_moment_point)

~~~
ibnroberttuta
Short answer: No, ZMP is still the name of the game +-. [0]

Slightly longer answer: No, they use derivative approaches that are basically
ZMP but generally more refined/modernized, which is not to say ZMP/related are
good or the 'future'. [1]

Source: [0] I can try and find some non-paywall PDF's that go over the field,
but basically everyone uses ZMP except for a few research groups in Korea or
UMich and groups using their design/model.

[1] I work in the industry.

~~~
mrfusion
This is awesome. Thanks! I kind of figured they'd apply the algorithms behind
big dog et al to bipedal. But I guess bipedal is completely different.

What do you think it would take for robots to walk in a similar way to humans?

~~~
ibnroberttuta
Great question.

Disclaimer: I don't work with these types of bipeds. I work on powered
exoskeletons for paralyzed type people. I would google that phrase to get an
idea, but what you'll find is not close to what i'm working on (Read: Wink
wink). That being said, the fields overlap very heavily, probably too heavily
given the necessary differences, so I do have a fairly rigorous (rusty, at
this point) understanding of the topic.

You are right in a way; big dog et al (depending on specific bot/type) share
alot of software features with biped robots, but not the type that deal with
gait control. The difference is found primarily in gait-control/kinematics, as
determined by the necessarily complex nature behind bipedal mechanics.

The future of robotics sort of already exists amongst us, at the very least in
the public research domain. The fundamental issue with biped robots right now,
as i see it, is:

1) Biped robots are almost universally 'human' inspired

2) Humans are theoretically fully optimized bipeds, copying them is logical
and probably an unbeatable 'design'

3) Designers try to copy the human form, but either focus too heavily on ZMP
influence or too much on a 'Terminator' level robustness (Heavy, rigid, and
impossible).

4) The robot is produced, and because ZMP is very predictable/safe, it walks;
but it is not 'human' form or very good at achieving it's design goals because
its goals were modeled after the ideal biped, and this is a very bad
imitation.

5) Designers say: Hey, spec sheet checks out, FEA says this is strong, problem
must be bad software [ZMP]. Software guys say: This software [ZMP] can be
improved. The designers are right, the software guys are right, but ZMP is
wrong, and because of that, design is bad, etc...

So to really get a true, true biped robot, you really, really need A) Control
theory that isn't backwards [literally] and B) A really, really 'human-like'
(musculoskeletal) design.

A and B are both really difficult because both are massively challenging, and
they have to work together perfectly. So you need a solution that is really
creative, really beautiful and elegant and lightweight, and probably most
difficult, you need to have people that know how to turn that kind of
framework from theory to iterative simulation to real world etc etc.

ZMP is the only real game rn because it was first and etc [sunken cost fallacy
and myopia, i think]. All other approaches are neglected fully, regretably
(not many other approaches either).

Jumping back to how I see it, I think bipeds will only improve superficially
till ZMP is killed or hybridized effectively, which doesn't mean A and B has
to occur. Their are just too many fundamental limitations to the theory for
bipeds using it to become ubiquitous, or even used beyond research/darpa-
fairs.

I also think that my research/focus is more complex than robotic bipeds, and
it'd be really worthless waste of my time if it was at the current or slightly
above 'state-of-the-art', but this is absolutely the best way I can spend my
life right now.

This whole industry [true 'wearables' and robotica] is like a giant powderkeg,
and it's going to blow up way bigger and sooner than any thought possible
[imo, so take with a grain of salt, but facts afford a potentially
representative state of things to be].

I've also just realized i've forgotten to explain zmp/gait and many other
things, but i feel that the write up stands on its own.

~~~
zamalek
Genuinely curious: could you chance a guess as to why they _chose_ bipedal
over quadrupedal?

I don't know much about the field, but mechanically quadrupedals simply make
more sense - a lower center of gravity combined with more opportunities (in
the form of more legs) to correct blunders.

------
wgx
I found it interesting how lots of the top comments on YouTube (ie: a wider
generalist audience) were concerned about robot abuse and the robot uprising.
We may scoff, but it's a real concern of lay people.

~~~
exodust
Isn't it just everyone trying to be funny with the same joke they believe will
be original, but actually is every second comment? Happens a lot on Youtube.
Surprised it's happening here too.

But if there really is a genuine wave of care about the robot welfare sweeping
the intertubes, then perhaps we need some ethics drawn up for when the robots
have feelings.

BTW, apparently fish do have feelings after all:

[http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/282/1819/2015...](http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/282/1819/20152266)

~~~
Strom
I think it's even simpler than that. They don't even expect it to be an
original joke. This is just the skynet meme. Memes like this get repeated ad
infinitum in comment sections like youtube's. People recognize some pattern
(e.g. robot abuse), pull out the most appropriate meme from their meme basket,
see it also being pulled out by others, and have a sense of belonging & social
reinforcement.

~~~
exodust
That's a kinder assessment. I'm not so sure though. I think many people don't
read others' comments and cruise in, watch video, and bust out their joke, not
noticing it already exists in various forms in previous comments.

Unlike offering a general opinion, viewpoint or judgement, we prefer our one-
liner jokes to be unique.

------
NeutronBoy
That is super impressive. The video of the robot walking around in the snow,
and multiple times almost falling over but righting itself, exactly how a
human would...

------
dluan
Why do they always gotta smack around the robots like that :(

~~~
lsiunsuex
Not gonna lie - kinda felt bad for it.

~~~
edvinbesic
I imagine videos like these being used in future trials to show humans
torturing robots.

~~~
rl3
> _I imagine videos like these being used in future trials to show humans
> torturing robots._

The proceedings may resemble this:

[https://i.imgur.com/1m1OPlb.png](https://i.imgur.com/1m1OPlb.png)

------
visarga
They don't seem to be using end-to-end deep reinforcement learning. I think
the robot movements will become smooth and organic once they replace the
current specialized approach with more general algorithms.

Robotics is a core application of reinforcement learning as it deals with an
embedded agent in a feedback look with the exterior. That's why DeepBrain
chose games to test their algorithm, because in a game the player is embedded
in an artificial world which is much easier to use in the trial and error
learning phase. Logically, after mastering Atari games, at some point they
should focus on robots that function in the real world. It helps that Deep
Brain and Boston Dynamics are owned by the same company.

------
danbmil99
Note the quiet compared to Big Dog... you can hear birds sing in the
background. That's a big deal. Their 4-legged pack mule for DoD was killed
partly due to noise.

Enjoy the silence..?

~~~
digi_owl
as best i recall, big dog was meant to be a long distance, possibly
autonomous, pack mule for places and missions where a manned vehicle was not
an option.

i suspect that this robot have a operating time of maybe an hour before the
battery pack needs to be swapped.

------
kriro
Pretty impressive. Seems like a non-stiff torso could help a bit. I'm sure
they are investigating that option/have tried it.

Hockey stick guy genuinely made me laugh. They should call this the hockey
stick test (once again very impressive).

Not sure what impresses me more overall the walking on non trivial terrain in
the beginning or the adaption to the "hockey attack". The video certainly
makes me want to work in robotics. Haas Bioroid is here ;)

------
jordanthoms
Very awesome, each generation is just so much better.

I wish they had shown it climbing those stairs though! :)

------
mangeletti
As I've watched these videos over the years, it's been impossible, especially
now, for me to not see how these and other such robots will replace and
eventually extinct all humans.

In theory, a family of 4 humans could run a global economy run by robots and
no humans. That's a sort of ridiculous, maximal state, but what makes any of
us think that, given a continuum from the current state to that maximal state,
we won't be somewhere closer to that state in 30 years, especially when
considering the unreasonably effectiveness of rent seeking on technology-
driven monopolies (e.g., Amazon)?

------
HeyShayBY
Anyone read "The Industries of the Future" by Alec Ross? He talks about the
technologies of the future, the technologies who will become an integral part
of our lives in the next 20 years.

The first episode in the book is about robotics. I really urge everyone to
read that book.

This Boston Dynamics video gives me serious Terminator vibes. In reality, from
an Economics stand point, I'm really curious and afraid to discover how will
this affect the lives of millions and millions of workers world-wide who will
lose their jobs to Robot. How can they stand at the right side of a technology
revolution they know nothing about?

What do you think?

~~~
sstiernborg
A related article about Dr Moshe Vardi and his controversial view that
governments and societies around the world may have to consider a "basic
income guarantee"

[http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-
tech/new...](http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-
tech/news/basic-income-artificial-intelligence-ai-robots-automation-moshe-
vardi-a6884086.html)

------
macarthy12
What percentage of the body weight is batteries? HOw long can it operate ?

------
dogma1138
On thing you can already bet on is that in 20 years that guy is going to wake
up in the middle of the night to find a T1000 with a hockey stick in it's
hands and a grin on it's facial expression monitor pointing at a box and say
"would you kindly; pick it up?". Later his tomb stone will say "Don't be a
dick to robots".

------
jbdigriz
It's funny how this video is what everyone in IT thinks work will be like
before they get their first job. Meanwhile, this is what work is actually like
at every IT job:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIIWX80KBUE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIIWX80KBUE)

------
stephengillie
For those not wanting to watch a video, Atlas appears to be a humanoid robot:
[http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/23/boston-dynamics-
presents-...](http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/23/boston-dynamics-presents-the-
next-generation-atlas-robot/)

------
atonse
What's crazy to me is that there's something "organic" enough about the way
these machines are behaving, that I actually feel bad for the robot when the
guy knocks over the boxes.

I think I wouldn't feel that bad if this were a self-driving forklift.

And it's not even an uncanny valley thing, or maybe it is?

------
unixhero
As a futurologist I don't like this one bit. Seriously, I feel like this
company will destroy us all.

------
sunseb
It's not the Terminator T-800 yet, still it's impressing. :-)))

------
geerlingguy
Does anyone else start to think of Blinky[1] when the guy starts pushing
around the robot?

[1] [http://youtu.be/P0lKDy6E918](http://youtu.be/P0lKDy6E918)

------
amai
Atlas is not alone:
[http://www.theroboticschallenge.org/teams](http://www.theroboticschallenge.org/teams)

------
bliti
Impressive. They seem to have reduced how much noise it makes during normal
operation. Does anybody know how long will the battery last on the current
version?

------
GolDDranks
#robotsarepeopletoo #botrights

------
matzipan
I empathized when the robot faceplanted...

------
julbaxter
Does someone know if they are using ROS?

------
diskcat
It doesn't have the grace of an actual human.

Its solution to any problem seems to be more stomping.

------
nikolay
Although a great incremental update, is the new Atlas any better than Asimo?

------
alinspired
it can use a shiny Bender skin :) hope some Futurama fans are working there

~~~
angersock
The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy.

------
chetangole
that's terrifying!

------
citizensixteen
Player Piano, the first novel of Kurt Vonnegut, was published in 1952. It
depicts a dystopia of automation, describing the deterioration it can cause to
quality of life. The story takes place in a near-future society that is almost
totally mechanized, eliminating the need for human laborers. This widespread
mechanization creates conflict between the wealthy upper class—the engineers
and managers who keep society running—and the lower class, whose skills and
purpose in society have been replaced by machines. The book uses irony and
sentimentality, which were to become hallmarks developed further in Vonnegut's
later works.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_(novel)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_\(novel\))

------
Scottli
and then they will put a weapon on it

------
Happpy
Poor robot, #abusedinboston

------
shostack
Am I the only one that saw this and got excited thinking it was a video of
FB's new ad platform?

