
Story of Odoo: Open-Sourced Competitor to Oracle, SAP - ankitkumar98
https://breakoutstartups.substack.com/p/breakout-startups-24-odoo
======
the_angry_angel
I’ve been working with Odoo for about a year implementing it for a small-
medium business in the UK (lots of customisations, general specing out etc,
working with their partners, etc. So not all dev). Disclaimer I’ve not yet
touched v13.

The good; The OCA (community association), the people (both community and
Odoo), the basic framework gets you up and running fast. You can tell it’s
grown over time, and it’s got sharp edges, but you can get what you need done.
Not necessarily in the prettiest way. The backwards compatibility and desire
to not break the core APIs is generally good from what I’ve seen so far.
Individual modules depends how much Odoo themselves lean on it afaict. GitHub
access for partners and direct source access to both enterprise and community
editions has been extremely helpful.

The bad; imho testing is a pain. The ORM uses Polish notation to build
filters, which if you’re used to SQL is frankly irritating to work with. The
ORM itself is quite clever, but it’s also not like any ORM I’ve worked with.
The dev docs aren’t great, beyond the basics. The quality of modules in the
“App Store” is extremely hit or miss. Odoo official “support” as a partner is
questionable. I feel like they’re under pressure to get you to pay up to be a
partner and then some period of time you might get help later. Anecdotally I’m
led to believe our partner account manager has been pushing us hard to host a
local event at our own cost (I’m not that involved with that side). The last
few versions have seen more accounting features drop out of community edition.
Some of the official apps are basic.

Is it better than SAP, Dynamics, etc.? Probably not. Is it good enough given
the price point and flexibility, for smaller businesses? Probably, especially
if the business has been tying together lots of apps adhoc.

~~~
rushabh
You should also checkout ERPNext
([https://github.com/frappe/erpnext](https://github.com/frappe/erpnext)). Its
another free and open source ERP (GNU GPL v3) which is not open core. ERPNext
is also built as a monolith, so you get maximum features out of the box
instead of relying on 100s of extensions to fulfill your requirements. All
since there is no "enterprise" version, there is no chance of features
dropping out like accounting and payroll.

ERPNext has reasonable traction too (~5k+ stars on GitHub, 12k+ forum members)
and is used by some very large enterprises.

Disclaimer: I am the founder of ERPNext

~~~
bbmario
You guys should definitely dial down on the marketing hyperbole. A good
technical getting started documentation would be much better than forcing
potential users to dig through GitHub and stumble their way in.

~~~
rushabh
Posted GitHub since it’s HN. Docs available at
[https://erpnext.com/docs/user/manual/en](https://erpnext.com/docs/user/manual/en)

------
unixhero
I've used it for several small businesses with near zero IT budgets. It's been
great and an enabler. The CRM for instance is brilliant. In a way gave us a
complete governance system for many of the company's staple processes. It
could also support our manufacturing process!

The feature set is unstable though. From version to version they will remove
first class features from COMMUNITY EDITION to ENTERPRISE.

Biggest for me was financial accounting, which was removed.

Some new large features to trickle down to COMMUNITY also, so the pendulum
swings both ways. However I don't see this instability as anything good for
the community edition users.

------
RcouF1uZ4gsC
I am of the opinion that open source, venture capital based companies are a
disaster waiting to happen. Open source is just not compatible with the large
return on investments that venture capital is built on.

These companies will happily take the goodwill and source contributions that
come from being open source and then eventually try to monetize by abandoning
their open source license.

~~~
cies
Maybe coops would fit better?

~~~
sam_lowry_
like SWIFT, literally a cooperative of banks?

~~~
cies
Could be, but I was considering worker-coops.

But if we look at some open source foundations, they are pretty much that (but
usually in a non-profit form, why would that be? /s).

------
mu_killnine
This is fascinating.

I work for a large enterprise that has basically written its own ERP from
scratch. There's a lot of rough edges but it's very tailored for our workflow
and processes.

I've toyed with the idea of what I'd build if I could largely take what I know
and start fresh (standard exercise in madness, I know) in order to learn about
the bits I am not familiar with (I'm more in manufacturing, know very little
about CRM and accounting processes).

It was very interesting coming across this only a few weeks ago and seeing
this here. Starting it up in a docker container was a snap and it had a number
of free modules that were easy to add. It's very basic but gets the point
across and was a fun learning experience (and nice because it's in a language
I don't currently develop in, python).

Just thought the timing was peculiar and enjoyed hearing about folks here
harping on ERP development as soul-crushing. Yes, it can be at times, but I
also really enjoy how it lets me really dig into my company's processes. When
you get it right, it can make your users sing with joy when you help speed
things up or streamline things.

I don't know where I was going with this but just enjoyed the article :)

~~~
oogway8020
My whole programming career has been around custom and standard ERP and
internal business apps. I am in mfg too, just not a large enterprise. Low
bureacracy, easy to get things done, joy when you see your software improves
your coworkers work daily. I also had an an idea of making a new ERP,
something that will have a strong both financials and manufacturing and not
much else, so a bit narrow focus, but it would cut a lot of baggage that first
and second tier ERP carry. Closest I can think of it is Dynamics GP as a
modern web app. I never worked with GP, only looked thir user guides and
youtube videos, but without actual app as a reference it is hard to make any
progress.

------
CuriousReader13
How does Odoo compare with Tryton
([https://www.tryton.org/](https://www.tryton.org/)) today?

For a little background, Tryton is a fork of Odoo when it was still called
TinyERP, motivated by disagreements among TinyERP founders and early
developers on the technical and business directions.

See 2016 HN discussion
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12985791](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12985791)

~~~
pinky07
You should test them both online, it takes a few minutes. There is no
comparison possible. \- Odoo: [https://odoo.com/start](https://odoo.com/start)
\- Tryton: [https://www.tryton.org/download](https://www.tryton.org/download)

~~~
sisalp
jump directly to Tryton on-line demo at demo.tryton.org

I'm involved in both Odoo nd Tryton. For a first approach, I would say they
are very different

\- by their surface: Odoo tends to be The solution, Tryton focuses on
providing best basics.

\- by their ambition: Odoo aims first places, Tryton wants to please its
members and users.

\- by their size: Odoo is a big project, Tryton is a small community.

I pre-configured again both last week for customers. Apart Odoo's gadgets
collection, I really prefer Tryton user experience.

------
illuminated
There's a fork of Odoo called Flectra [0]. Feature wise they are almost
identical, but there's a difference in paid vs. unpaid versions. Flectra gives
all the features for free and you pay the support if you need it.

[0]: [https://flectrahq.com/](https://flectrahq.com/)

------
sam_lowry_
The founder and the other two guys that were there in the beginning are still
the biggest committers in odoo. It's a striking difference from pg or zuck or
other people the same position in US who only have toy projects.

~~~
CharlesW
> _The founder and the other two guys that were there in the beginning are
> still the biggest committers in odoo._

Is that a good thing, 15 years in?

~~~
Kwantuum
There might be some misunderstanding about what "the biggest" means: they have
the largest proportion of commits to their name, percentage-wise, they don't
have a majority of the total commits. Ie, the founder has around 1-2% of all
commits, when the company has 100~ish full-time devs.

~~~
pinky07
Founder here. I don't develop anymore since a few years with some exceptions
(e.g. the ORM refactoring if v13). I still spend 50% of my time to improve the
product, but more as a product owner. (The other 50% is to improve the
company)

------
dang
Related from 2014:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7750020](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7750020)

2012:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4904741](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4904741)

------
thrower123
I can't imagine wanting to spend my free time contributing to anything that's
in the same class of software as Oracle or SAP. That's a hard hill to climb
for an open-source project - ERP is just soul-sucking drudgery, at the best of
times.

At best I can imagine having to use the thing for work, and at least being
able to hack in a fix for a bug. Assuming I can actually get the whole thing
to build. And that there's any stomach in the organization for customization
that isn't on somebody else's liability.

~~~
icebraining
You can definitively get it to build; Odoo is essentially a Python web
framework (ORM, UI framework, etc) that happens to include a bunch of apps for
typical business needs. Running it is no harder than running the average
Django app, just point it to a Postgres instance.

That said, while I enjoyed the six years I worked with it at different
companies, I can't say I'd spend my free time on it. But I don't think that's
necessary for FOSS to work; Odoo has a pretty good community (OCA), mostly
composed of people paid to work with it.

------
ofrzeta
I recently got a job offer from Odoo and from what I could gather they seem to
be a nice company with an open source culture. Unfortunately working as a
developer for Odoo means moving to some place in the Belgian countryside (or
to Gandhinagar, India)

~~~
fvdessen
Living in Brussels / Leuven / Louvain-la-Neuve and commuting is quite
feasible. Lots of smart people working there, I would recommend.

~~~
anton96
Living in Brussels and was searching for a job not so long ago. I just didn't
even sent my CV to them beceause they where too far away. From Brussels to
their town it's more than hour and half and that's an optimistic number.

~~~
fvdessen
Depends where in Brussels, from the southern neighbourhoods (Boitsfort,
Auderghem, Woluwe, Etterbeek, etc), it's 30min-50min. There's little traffic
in that direction. Did it for years from Boitsfort :)

------
CharlesW
How is this 15-year-old company, which isn't mentioned in any "ERP vendors"
roundup that I can find, a "breakout startup" (to quote the actual title)?
They appear to have little to no momentum.

> _Odoo is largely profitable…_

What is the difference between "largely profitable" and "not profitable"?

~~~
sam_lowry_
I live in Belgium, which is Odoo home country, and I see many cars bearing
Odoo logo in the streets. Also, SMEs here choose Odoo over competition as
often as they choose Windows over competition.

ERP vendor roundups, Magic Quadrant and McKinsey advisories exist in a totally
different world.

------
dr_faustus
We have used Scipio ERP
([https://www.scipioerp.com/](https://www.scipioerp.com/)), which is based on
OFBiz, in a couple of projects. It's very flexible and easily integrates with
other systems (using Camel). It's more suited to bigger businesses, though.
Some components are closed but 95% are Apache licensed.

Disclaimer: I'm friends with the devs behind Scipio.

------
unixhero
If anyone wants to try the community version of Odoo out, here's a script
which will install it in pretty much one command. I've used this for several
years, it's now bumped the installer to version 13.

[https://github.com/Yenthe666/InstallScript](https://github.com/Yenthe666/InstallScript)

It runs fine even on Digital Ocean USD5 instances.

Thanks Yenthe666!

------
eldy10
You should also have a look at Dolibarr ERP CRM
([https://github.com/dolibarr/dolibarr](https://github.com/dolibarr/dolibarr)
or [https://www.dolibarr.org](https://www.dolibarr.org) for portal). Its
another free ERP and CRM (GNU GPL v3) which is fuly Open Source (no
proprietary version). It is a modular and easy to use ERP and CRM. The addon
store contains several hundred of extensions but in most cases you can find
all what you need with the hundred of modules available by default with
standard distribution.

------
JackPoach
Bitrix24 has been pretty successful going against Odoo, though Bitrix24 is not
an ERP system per say -
[https://www.bitrix24.com/tools/](https://www.bitrix24.com/tools/) . The
hybrid approach (Bitrix24 is free in cloud, source code is available to
commercial users) seems to work great with businesses that have a limited
budget. Open source products are great but unless you are a techie yourself,
high labor costs make deployment too expensive oftentimes. This is especially
true for smaller project with small or no budget.

------
NicoJuicy
Fyi, [https://erpnext.com/](https://erpnext.com/) is a competitor of oodoo (
called openerp before) and it's more opensource.

------
pillefitz
Does anyone know how the market for Odoo consulting looks like?

~~~
pinky07
It's huge and growing very fast. Here is the latest partner survey:
[https://fpodoo.typeform.com/report/of94m5/u9OIWzKf0ncIVPV4](https://fpodoo.typeform.com/report/of94m5/u9OIWzKf0ncIVPV4)

There are already 31k employees dedicated to Odoo, working for official
partners. (12 per partner on average, 2600 partners) And probably as much in
the community. 50% of partners do more than 50% of their business on Odoo; it
quickly become their main source of revenues after one or two years.

Margins are high as it's based on highly valuable business services: what you
deliver is not your time, but software that transform the company. We charge
on average 950€ / 1050$ per day.

I have seen a lot of self-employed or small companies growing fast as they
started working on Odoo.

Odoo has a real positive impact on companies using it, as you can see in these
interviews of random customers:
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5eXZIMnpyNjVYV0x...](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5eXZIMnpyNjVYV0xpdDVsUldpWnJZX1UtSE4w/view?usp=sharing)

~~~
pillefitz
Interesting, so it's quite similar to SAP. Do you need deep business
knowledge, or are software skills (Python, JS I guess?) sufficient?

~~~
unixhero
It's business IT consulting. You need to know end to end processes within the
department / part of the company you're working for, then you must know the
odoo system/platform very well and pair and match the two.

------
cristatus
Have a look at [https://axelor.com](https://axelor.com), a fully open source
business platform using Java technologies...

------
fractalf
I've been working with Odoo now for about 2 years. (TLDR; Oddo works fine, but
it's documentation really suck). It's great when you want some basic stuff up
and running fast. However, my biggest beef about this stack is the lack of
good documentation. If you want to build custom stuff there's a huge
investment in time to get your head around how things are working. Basically
you have to read and understand a lot of the source code to get complicated
stuff done. When stuck on "more than basic" stuff it's not unusual to spend
days figuring out things. Hell, even basic stuff is hard to grasp sometimes.
Don't even ask how much time I spend making VusJS integrate with Odoo.

------
AlexTrask
Odoo its opensource but they don't accept pull request.

~~~
plmu
It is open core. More and more parts are removed from the open source part and
require a licencse.

IMHO open core is a truely treacherous model that should be avoided at all
cost. Better completely closed source than the evil mixture.

