
Ask HN: Middle School family biz founder; now adult, and parents have all equity - lostfounder111
Hi HN,<p>I’ve been around HN for the better part of a decade, and really feeling like I could use the collective advice of the community. I&#x27;m using an anon account because of HN contacts irl. If you do recognize my story, I&#x27;d ask that you email me privately.<p>The short version of my story is that my father and I built a company together from essentially nothing when I was in middle school and we worked together through high school (~$1 million in yearly revenue) and college (~$3 million in yearly revenue).<p>When I would ask about maybe getting paid, my father would tell me that the company was going to be mine one day. That there was no sense in him paying me, because the company doing well was good for the me, and the work I did was creating a better company for myself. Would I want to take over a big company, or a smaller company?<p>Now an adult, I have no equity, and he&#x27;s 100% in control. I have no leverage, and almost no voice in the company I created. Cut out by someone I trusted.<p>There&#x27;s so much more to the story, but the text limit on HN posts wasn&#x27;t enough to express it fully.<p>Here is the Full Version: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pastebin.com&#x2F;JDGUtT3Q
======
mchannon
You will likely go through life with many jobs. You will only ever have one
father. Lots of people would kill for the opportunity to have worked alongside
their father for years, even exploited. It's special.

I think you have to decide how much your relationship with your father is
worth to you. If you can put a price on it, make darn sure whatever you do
next is 100% going to result in that price, or more, and you won't lose any
sleep.

Consider for a moment that maybe your father did more to keep the business
alive than you think he did, and that maybe you did less to keep it alive than
you think you did. You're not crazy to think you're a 50/50 cofounder, but
you're probably wrong to think it.

I think you should consider opening your own warehouse across town, doing the
exact same thing your current business is doing. Build a better engine, and
skim the cream your current business is getting (for the 90% of inventory that
generates 10% of the revenues, simply send them the business to keep your new
venture and cash burn optimally-sized). Don't clue your family into what
you're doing. If your father is essential and irreplaceable to the business
model, then your venture could fail. If you're the essential one, then you can
gift your family some nonvoting stock after your business takes off and theirs
tanks (assuming Amazon doesn't eat both your lunches in the meantime).

But consider this all with the backdrop of only having one family. You can't
put a price on that, or at least I can't.

~~~
phaus
> You will likely go through life with many jobs. You will only ever have one
> father.

True, but if your 1 father is a POS then having a father is worthless.

------
Lordarminius
I read through your notes on pastebin and I am saddened.

Your father took advantage of you and is taking advantage of you still. If it
wasn't obvious to you when the issue of equity arose, it should have been
glaring when he refused to pay you a reasonable salary after you returned to
save the company.

Your judgement is clouded by the respect you have for your father. To get a
sense of what's really going on, replace every occurrence of 'my father' in
your story with a neutral name 'George' for instance, then read your own
account again.

I get a sense that you are not very an assertive person and that you shy away
from confrontation - at least insofar it relates to your father. This is a far
from rare trait, but it has worked to your detriment in this case.

The way I see it, you have two options: walk away from the company now and
never look back, abandoning all the effort of the past few years or get a
lawyer and seek legal redress. What you should not do, is continue to work in
this company where your contribution is downplayed and effort is poorly
rewarded.

I'd say it's finally time to make some hard choices.

------
tjwds
I am not a lawyer, and I would bet that none of the answers you get here would
be on par with a consultation with a legal professional.

I would have a conversation with yourself about what you want the end result
of this to look like. What's the best outcome here for you? What's the worst?
What about for your parents? And I'm not just talking about the cash: is it
worth it to press this if it means losing your family?

~~~
lostfounder111
Thanks for the comment!

I've already decided it isn't worth it. I have no plans to lawyer up in this
situation.

~~~
karmajunkie
You really ought to reconsider this.

Even if you don't take equity as the payoff to the time you invested in
working on this project, if you were really unpaid during all those years
working on it, you likely have a strong case under employment law if nothing
else, if you can document time you spent on it. It sounds like your father
_really_ took advantage of your naivete here. I can't imagine doing something
like this with my son. Even if I didn't think his involvement warranted
equity, paying him for working on it would be done without question.

There's a lot to learn here, obviously. One thing I'm picking up on reading
your pastebin is that this is a company that grew to at least several
employees, and operated without your involvement for at least a few years.
There's a lot that goes into building a company, and just being around for the
start of it doesn't entitle someone to half the company—this is why vesting
schedules are a thing. So its worth looking hard at your expectations and
being brutally honest with yourself about the role you played in the formation
of the company. At the end of that, though, if you're able to honestly
conclude that your role was absolutely integral to the formation of the
company, you should stand firm in demanding to be compensated for that.

~~~
karmajunkie
Actually, now that I think about it, you may have a rock solid case in terms
of copyright.

Absent an employment or contractual agreement that makes your code a work-for-
hire, you own the copyright to any code you write. If you don't have any
agreements in place with the company your father started with you, then you
still own the copyright to the code you presumably wrote during the early
days. Even if they had developers who later built upon that, their copyright
is derivative. They can't do anything with it without your agreement,
including sell the company, the software, or really even deploy it if push
comes to shove. I'm assuming you can prove your own copyright in the form of
source control.

I've been through exactly this situation with a client, and if I hadn't had
that card to play I'd have gotten royally screwed dealing with them. I don't
know if I ever really got as much out as I put in, but it made me almost-
whole. (and you can reach out to me if you want the full story there, I'm not
going to put it on HN.)

~~~
whiskers08xmt
IANAL but my father is. This is exactly the advice he gave me in a similar
situation. OP is the legal owner of the IP, if he was never given
compensation, or signed away the rights. If I was in the OP's place, I would
tell his family about this, but also that he doesn't intend to lawyer up. It
sounds like the business is reliant on OP, OPs code, and OP's talents, so it
would be in the best interest for every party involved to give OP a fair share
of the company.

~~~
karmajunkie
The problem he's going to run into now is that giving him his fair share is
going to have dramatically greater tax implications if given in the form of
equity. Options are a possibility, and if the company is an LLC there are
interesting ways to play with a share of the profit account instead of the
capital account. Any way you cut it though, it sounds like OP is owed some
substantial proceeds. I hope we hear how this one gets resolved!

------
dshuang
I would like to relate a similar story I've heard.

Gary Vaynerchuk grew his father's brick and mortar liquor store from 4MM in
sales to 60MM in sales on the back of digital advertising and ecommerce. He
didn't get any equity in his father's company either. His salary also wasn't
lavish. When Gary was in his 30s, he left his father's business and launched
his own company.

You could take what you have learned from building your father's business and
launch a company on your own, where you control the equity and call the shots.
If you're not happy with how your family wants to compensate you, wouldn't it
be better to forge a path on your own rather than expend time and energy
fighting with family?

If you look on youtube for GaryVee, you can hear how he views all that work he
did for his father's company. Hopefully it gives you a new perspective.

------
indigodaddy
I read through the full version. One point that may be lost in all the
comments, that I think is salient, is that this was his father's company to
begin with. The son helped the father bring an internet presence to the
business (eg, go the business online). Yes, the father took advantage and it's
likely not ethical, it was still the business that the father started.

Of course, it could be argued that it was a new business when it exploded on
the internet after near-bankruptcy, however, it could be argued the son was
just "helping the family business," as their was no formal business agreement
(it sounds like). This may be a tough legal battle to get really anything, and
sounds like your father would fight it tooth to nail; it may be a a very long
road that you don't want to go down.

IMO, you might do better just continuing to help out here and there (as you've
got things pretty well in shape it looks like), and distance yourself somewhat
both emotionally and energy/work-wise. Lighten up just a bit about it, and
you'll likely get 50/50 anyway, when your Dad is ready to stop working/retire.
This way, you have a better chance of not fracturing the relationship as well,
and it allows you to sort of emotionally unwind.

Yes, continue to be the break/fix guy and the architectural/platform guru as
needed, but don't invest that kind of emotional (and actual work/cycles)
energy anymore, if you can possibly help it (obviously this will be difficult
given the history and attachments etc). Sort of unwind yourself a bit, and I
think things may just naturally work out.

~~~
lostfounder111
Thanks for the comment. It does follow the running thread with most comments
that I shouldn't be afraid to distance myself.

> One point that may be lost in all the comments, [...] this was his father's
> company to begin with.

I've pondered this. There is no disputing (and I try to make this point in the
paste) that my father actually brought something to the table. In this case,
it was inventory and supplier relationships.

In some respects, the whole thing was so separate from the original company
that I used to joke with my father that I should just have the money deposited
in my bank account instead of his, and he should just give me a slightly
better price on product.

We even discussed changing the name of the company when we transitioned to
online-only sales. But, hysterically, the company is named after me, so I
argued that it should stay the same, and eventually persuaded him.

------
Someone1234
Legitimate question: Who paid for college?

If this business's profits paid for yours and your brother's college
education, as well as supported the family while you lived there you need to
take that into account. You may also want to take into account that even
according to your own version of events, your dad had been running this
business since before you created the eStore. Plus there's a huge gap in the
middle of your story (college + job + own startup) where you didn't work for
the business while your brother and dad did.

I guess what I am trying to say is: You deserve equity but not the 50/50 you
seem to believe. According to your own version of events (which paints things
in the best possible light for you), your dad still did the majority of the
work, took the majority of the risk, and was paying for things for you while
doing so.

I think your dad's greed is affecting his judgement, but frankly I think it is
affecting yours too. As an exercise go rewrite this story from what you think
your dad's perspective is, setting out what he did, and how things will look
for him.

Again, you deserve equity, and I have no idea what he already gifted you.
20-30% would be in the ballpark of fair. But in general I think you're seeing
green a little and just want more power than your brother for later, which
isn't a healthy place to come from.

You could go get lawyers involved but win or lose, you'll lose.

~~~
lostfounder111
Thanks for the thought provoking comments.

> Who paid for college?

I've reflected on this question before. My parents paid for college. Although
I went at their urging. I was already writing software every day, to be honest
I didn't see the value in a degree.

I started another online business in college, and employed my brother until I
sold the company a few years later. My parents gave my brother and I a monthly
stipend, but I made multiples of it with the online business.

I also incorporated lessons learned from this company into my father and I's
company.

Generally, I agree with all of your points/questions.

> [He] was paying for things for you

I do think about this. But if your child has a skill, does that mean if you
cloth them and feed them, you are entitled to work for free? I doubt many
would agree there.

> I think you're seeing green a little

There is no discussion to be had if the business wasn't making any money. It
wouldn't matter who owned 100% of $0 profit. I was part of building a multi-
million dollar company, and the thought of having to redo the sleepless nights
(Pulling all-nighters in high school making new stuff or after our shared host
upgraded their php install and our shop started segfaulting), just seems
crazy. I put in the work and I was a big part of building something great.

> want more power than your brother

Also true. I'm not sure I could disagree with his style of management any
more. He is, unfortunately, not able see long term, and will cut his nose to
spite his face. We just disagree, and the thought of having to have some kind
of 'consensus' about decisions is not appealing.

> I have no idea what he already gifted you

I believe the note just literally just said 'ownership'. And hasn't been
mentioned since.

> You could go get lawyers involved but win or lose, you'll lose.

Agreed.

------
DoreenMichele
Your father has been treating you like a slave to build his wealth. He did so
from the time you were a child. The fact that you call him a _great guy_
baffles me and makes me think you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

Depending on how much time you initially put into the company, he may have
also been in violation of child labor laws.

But the reality is that you saving the company helped you stay fed, clothed
and sheltered, so you at least got that much out of it. And when you walked
away, it began to unravel.

You need to read some negotiating books and decide what you want. You need to
look to the future, not the past.

You need to put in writing what you want, such as "I get X amount of equity
and credit for helping build this company or I go get a different job." Don't
argue about the past, what's fair, how you helped build it, etc.

I would make it clear that I don't think the company can thrive without you.
You saved it twice now.

But that doesn't mean it will get through to your father. You need to be fully
prepared to leave if he doesn't give you what you want. The odds are good that
he won't.

If the company gets into trouble again after you leave and they again ask you
to come back, lawyer up and insist on getting your due. Get it in written
contract form, not verbal agreement. If you don't get what you want, don't go
back.

You need to make your peace with letting your father fail and going your own
way. Or accept that he will always take advantage of you.

You can't really force other people to change. There are so many ways for them
to just keep crapping on you if you are insisting on a fairness they don't
really believe in. It would probably be best to quietly job hunt and just
leave.

Accept that if you do so, the company probably starts its death spiral again.
Your father isn't a talented businessman.

------
Blackstone4
@lostfounder111

I read the full version and I would consider walking away from the business.
This would:

1) Save your relationship with your father and brother

2) Hopefully help your mental wellbeing

3) Create new opportunities for you (i.e. start your own business or get a job
with a competitive salary)

Whether you like it or not, your father has 100% of the equity and is in
control. After multiple conversations, you have no equity and are under-paid.
You have three choices:

1) Lawyer up - from your comments, it appears you are unwilling to do this.
This would probably destroy your relationship with your family and may not
even result in you receiving partial ownership

2)Stay and hope that you receive equity. From what I've read, it'll probably
happen when your father retires or passes away. The frustration you have, will
probably eat at you and damage your mental health. I would advise against this
as you may become bitter and resentful. This would damage your relationship
with your father.

3) Leave. It sounds like you are young enough and have a wealth of fantastic
experience. Go get a job with a competitive salary or start your own business
(maybe re-use your code with permission from your dad). You'll probably still
get equity when your father hands over the reigns. Say that you want to stand
on your own two feet and have something of your own. Try to maintain a
positive relationship. If they need you to fix the software, charge close to
market rate and point to the fact they are making millions in sales.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck :)

~~~
Blackstone4
I wanted to add that your father probably has his own shit he is trying to
process. Maybe he is worried about money and doesn't want to let go of his
mealticket. Maybe he has difficulty trusting others. So what would happen if
he handed over 50% of the company? Maybe he's worried that by you asking for
equity that you're trying to take away what is his.

~~~
lostfounder111
I think you are mostly correct here. My father has been a serial entrepreneur,
though without any large payouts. He got screwed in an acquisition, and the
next enterprise ended in bankruptcy. None were even half as large as our
company is now.

I know that until a few years ago, he had basically zero retirement savings --
which is different than having no money to spend. But you are probably correct
on all counts.

~~~
Blackstone4
That's helpful context. I were to guess, you're dad is probably thinking the
company is his and you don't need the money right now because you're young and
have a bright future. He can just hold on to the equity until he has
retired/cashed out. Then he will pass it so what is there to worry about....

It must be frustrating for you to be in this position. Unfortunately I don't
think there is much you can do.

The bright side is that you have amazing experience building up a company and
I assume from your other comments, no debt. After multiple attempts, your dad
finally has a successful company. You have your health which is your most
important asset and you are financially stable.

------
lostfounder111
Here is a clickable link to the full version of my story:
[https://pastebin.com/JDGUtT3Q](https://pastebin.com/JDGUtT3Q)

------
segmondy
1) You need to decide what's important to you. Your family relationship or
money. What could happen is that you fight it and the family turns against
you, not just your dad but everyone else since he control's the money.
Everyone else will get inline not to get cut off. So only fight if you don't
care about the outcome. Don't assume that you can repair the relationship ever
if it breaks.

2) Doesn't matter if you fight it or not. Don't let this hold you back. You
have gone through the process, you know what it takes to build a business.
Start your own, it might work out immediately, but keep trying. Only keep
working for the company if the pay is enough, if you can command more pay go
get a job else where. Work for the company as a consultant and charge higher
pay. So instead of say $20/hr 40hrs a week. They can have you on retainer for
$200/week for 1hr and after that $50/hr. Assuming you don't have much to do.
That way you make more money working else where, but you still stay active in
the company and hopeful the extra money will turn to more savings you can pile
into your future venture.

Best of luck.

------
whiskers08xmt
IANAL, but you should own the copyright on all the software you wrote unpaid,
as well as the derivative copyright of everything that is based off of your
initial software, which sounds like is pretty much the whole stack.

Let's try to list the options and see what optimizes for least
bitterness/spite.

1\. Leave the company to pave your own way.

    
    
      1.1 You're more successful than your father, but his company does well.
    
      - He's proud of your success
    
      - He's envious of your success
    
    
      1.2 You're more successful than your father, as the company flounders without you.
    
      - He's resentful of you betraying the company.
    
      - He's remorseful for not appreciating how valuable you were.
    
      1.3 You're less successful than your father.
    
      - You're resentful about your lack of stake in this success.
    
      - You're at peace, knowing your contribution wasn't necessary to the success of the company.
    
    

2\. Lawyer up and fight for your right to the company/companies code base.

    
    
      2.1 Litigation is successful, and you're awarded meaningful compensation.
    
      - I only really see this souring relationships, but it might be mendable in the future, if you continue to grow the company.
    
      2.2 Litigation is unsuccessful.
    
      - Relationships are still soured, but nothing to show for it.
    

3\. Continue status quo.

    
    
      - Your dad comes to value your inputs, and eventually rewards your diligence. I think this is unlikely, unless something indispose him from working.
    
      - Your difference in vision becomes more frequent, until you can't work with him anymore.
    
      - You continue with ownership limbo, as your bitterness about the situation grows.
    

There are probably situations I haven't accounted for, and the probabilities
of these outcomes are largely dependent on you, and your dads personalities.
My own bias is probably showing, but I think your best option is to leave the
company, and forge your path.

------
p3llin0r3
Either get a lawyer and take him to court, or move on and get your own
business. No more hand-wriging and hoping.

Your father sounds like a snake, by the way.

~~~
lostfounder111
Appreciate you taking the time to comment. I don't plan to lawyer up, but I
think you're probably correct that it's not healthy to continue working there
barring a change.

My father's stance is very perplexing to me as well. He's a great guy, but
when it comes to business, I'm sometimes surprised by the ruthlessness.

~~~
p3llin0r3
My position comes from experience.

My situation is a bit different: My grandfather was killed in a a car accident
by an extremely over-worked trucker and we get a very large settlement,
millions, out of it. Terrible tragedy. My grand-mother was severely brain
damaged, basically lobotomized and has to live with help.

This was in the late 90s.

Ever since, the amount of mis-handling, under-handed dealings, and outright
stupidity of my aunts in regards to this money has been astounding. Together,
they managed to piss away ALL of the money and pull in a fair share of debt in
the meantime.

My parents were more in your position: On the outside looking in, not wanting
to throw down legally with family members. Waiting and hand wringing and
hoping for the best go them nowhere.

In the end, I got to work 40 hours a week and go to night-school though
college, when REALLY, the entire family should have been comfortable and
highly educated for an entire generation.

It's been battle-royale, lord-of-the-files for years on end. I tell this story
to elucidate you on a very specific point: Just because they're family does
not mean they are going to watch out for you. OR, they can just simply be not
as intelligent as you are, and make decisions that seem rational to them.

Or they can lie to themselves, and construct a false narrative where they are
the good guys, and you are the bad guy. I suspect your father has written your
contributions out of his mind, and replaced them with his own.

People see the dollar signs and lose sight of what's important. I've since
just forgiven everyone and let it go. That's the decision you have to make,
and make it quickly: Drop it and be on good terms with your family, or get a
lawyer and quit kidding around.

edit: I'll also update that I struggled with this for years and years. What
finally lead me to acceptance and living a much happier life was therapy.
Talking with my therapist about the decisions people made, the greediness I
saw, the irrationality of the decisions, and the betrayal of my family
members.

Talking through it, processing it, and contextualizing with my therapist was
enormously helpful.

------
rajacombinator
Time to write off the company and your family. Your father sounds like a
classic psychopath and child abuser who clearly has no regard for you. Being
stingy with equity or salary to a middle schooler is understandable, but
getting you to work for free for a 3mm/yr business as an adult is not
acceptable. There won’t be a company to be yours. You think what you’re doing
will last 30-50 years until your father dies? You think he’ll actually deliver
on his promise of giving you the company? He hasn’t shown any interest in
giving you anything so far, what makes you think he will change? Just get out
and try to enjoy the learning experience you gained.

------
JSeymourATL
> I want to have a final meeting with my father -- I’d like to correct course.

Attitude matters, if you think you'll get a war -- you'll get a war.

Perceptions dominate ALL parts of negotiation. When people become angry and
uncertain, mistrustful -- they physiologically hear less.

Relative to your father -- is important to take his 'emotional temperature'
Figure out the pictures in his head and deal with it. See if those perceptions
match.

You're right to love to your folks, support them the best you can. You know
your Old Man better than anyone -- What will it take to persuade him?

Where the circle overlaps with your career and business interests -- sadly,
lots of people have learned to keep them separated.

Incidentally, you might find Stuart Diamond helpful >
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QtZ-
vObJrk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QtZ-vObJrk)

------
nekopa
Devil's Advocate

Trying to put together the timeline, lets say 6 years out of college, so
you're maybe in your early thirties. Let's say your Dad had you in his late
20s, early 30s. So he was in his 40s when you and him founded the business,
and you were a teen.

Maybe he doesn't think you are ready yet. Maybe he remembered all the mistakes
he made in his thirties, and how in his mid forties everything came together
when you helped him move online and save his business. But for a business man,
all you did was tech stuff. He has seen you follow the start up path out of
College and spend 4 years chasing the start-up-lottery dream, and doesn't want
to give you $1.5M for you to continue chasing (in his mind) smoke and mirrors.

Maybe while you spent 4 years in college, and he was running the business,
with programming employees, he found out that you created a serious hairy
mudball that no one but you would ever understand. (I remember some of the
first sites and software I made in the early 90s when I first learned web
programming and kept building on them because they worked and were in
production which now make me shudder to think of).

It might be that he thinks you still have fire to burn and things to prove,
and are not ready to take over a company that is running well - that you might
makes changes just for the sake of change.

Maybe he fears with more control you would kill the goose that lays the golden
eggs.

And he could be very wrong. Made worse by the idea that maybe his assumptions
are all wrong, and he is not doing this out of malice (as some commenters are
quick to point out) but he genuinely believes he is helping you.

Who knows? We have your side of the story, and though I believe your side _is_
true, it is just half of the story.

/Devil's Advocate

I wish you the best of luck. And I do think your father has some explaining to
do.

(My view is formed by my being in my late 40s, having a 6 year old son who I
love, and trying to think why my son in 25 years could think that I am a great
person, but also think I am screwing him over).

Edit: Spelling

~~~
lostfounder111
I love this comment. Great perspective. It's hard to articulate all sides of
the story with a timeline-esque narrative, but I think your comment is a great
follow up.

> he found out that you created a serious hairy mudball

No question about it, we're talking about early 00s web development.
osCommerce required register_globals to be on. By today's standards, it's an
aberration. But, really, quite a few best practice-y things from early 00s
look quite antiquated today.

For all it's warts, almost the entire stack remained untouched (just looked at
our initial git import from when I returned), as the company revenue hovered
around $4m/yr for a few years.

The company's location is not well suited to hire tech talent, and my father
tends towards a 'butts-in-the-seats' management style, which really prevented
us from hiring someone who could do more than day-to-day bug fixes.

> you would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs

As of a few years ago, my father had basically no retirement savings, and he
picked some up a pretty expensive hobbies. I think he's realized he's at
retirement age without money to finance his current lifestyle. (A lifestyle
that I benefit from, no doubt -- family vacations, family houses, etc).

Thanks again for the comment, it's a great perspective to keep in mind.

------
notahacker
Have you talked to your brother about this (or better still, started with
asking about _his_ aspirations)?

Sounds like he will have his own expectations of equity (possibly not an equal
share), views on your father's plans (I assume he intends to retire at some
point) and view of how involved he thinks you should be in running things.
He'll also have a view on how much work you actually did before you got on
board and how important that work you did was to the company growth, which
sounds like it will be not unfavourable to you (but also perhaps not the same
as yours). And lastly, he'll have a better idea than any of us of how
persuadable your father is on the issue or whether it's easier just to walk
away.

------
burfog
He started the company, without the internet, so it is his.

That bit about the company being yours some day might well be true, assuming
the company outlives your father. I take that to be the meaning of the
promise. If he sells the company, there is still the money from that. The
promise is only truly broken if he has a will that excludes you.

So, not really a problem there... but you are an adult now and may decide to
go elsewhere for better pay or any other reason.

------
cornholio
Sounds like typical father behavior. I'm sure he is convinced everything he
does is for your own good - but in reality has very little regard for your
contributions and acts as a control freak, choking the life out of your best
years.

Part of me would install log-less rootkits on all critical infrastructure and
plant disc corruption and subtle misconfiguration here and there. Not enough
to bankrupt the company but enough to drive any hired sysadmin mad, then
refuse to answer the phone until the equity demands are met. Ok, don't
actually do those illegal things.

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cvaidya1986
Move on with this 1M lesson and build something worth a 100M :)

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trub
Lawyer up. Time to sue. Your family put you in this position. Most likely out
of misguided greed. Get what is yours.

~~~
trub
Also don’t mix family and money. Or friends and money. It rarely works out.

~~~
thinkmilitant
I would add, when mixing money and friends/family is unavoidable absolutely
insist on a well worded contract. I know many people think that this is some
sort of taboo among people you are close to, but it is essential all parties
are very clear about what to expect from one another once money enters the
picture.

It doesn't guarantee a trouble free time, but it at least avoids the tragic
and very common "miscommunications".

------
noemit
This is clearly a really emotional thing for you, so while I understand, I
urge you to be as rational as possible about this.

Let's talk about value. There are three types of value, in my mind: wisdom
value, cash value, and potential value.

The cash value of this experience is your salary. You don't seem happy with
it.

The wisdom value of this experience is hopefully clear: Take ownership, have
things written down on paper, and don't do work for free. Also, another nugget
of wisdom: Many people here on HN have been screwed in situations where they
thought they were getting equity and they weren't - the difference is you lost
it to family. This is actually not that bad. I'll explain later. The main
point is to not make the mistake of doing free work for no equity again.

The potential value is pretty much zero. You're not going to get much more
from this company, at least compared to the opportunity cost of working for a
different startup that values you or starting your own. You've fooled yourself
that there is potential because "you started it" and "you deserve it." but
there isn't and you're screwed. Accept it.

From the little information I have, I think your next best action is clear:
move on, do something new. Start a new company, you clearly have the chops and
the experience. You have a distinct advantage over most people starting
companies because your family is also made up of business people. (I know I
know - your hear is sinking - but stay focused on being rational.) But this
makes you incredibly lucky.

Lets say you move on - work for a new company - start your own - whatever. You
live life. In 10 years you're married and you have a baby. Your parents are
getting old and the company now has a lot of liquid assets and everyone is
super comfortable. Your parents now buy you a house, or set up a trust for
your kid to go to college. Very few people have this. You, again, become
incredibly lucky. Your brother, too, will get these benefits. What luck! What
a wonderful life all the cousins will have.

There is an African folk story about a man who fell from a very tall tree onto
a medium size tree, and then from a medium size tree on to the ground. He was
all scratched up, but he survived because of the interim tree. An elder looked
at him scowling and reminded him, "don't ask god why, when you should tell him
thank you!"

You made your family rich. You achieved IT, and I hope one day after the
rawness of the emotions fades, you can feel pride about this entire
experience. Your parents did not do the right thing - but thats okay, few
people do. Maybe one day they will. But it is THEIR choice - the ball is in
their court. These choices are difficult. Thankfully, it's not your choice!
Forgive, learn, move on, and be thankful!

~~~
nugget
Sometimes pride and a sense of justice are more important than money in terms
of building a wonderful life. I agree with you that most people don't do the
right thing, but that doesn't excuse doing the wrong thing. Based on the
version of events listed here, the parents failed a basic character test. I
would rather be on my own, than held in orbit around such people by the
occasional gift. If I were OP I would separate on good terms and get a high
paying job that allows me to claim I am too busy to have anything to do with
the business.

~~~
noemit
1\. Most parents fail the character test. 2\. The world is unjust. You should
fight it when it benefits you. I don't see the benefits here. Family is more
important than money.

~~~
vorhuts
You don't owe your parents anything nor does family always do what is best for
you. Especially in this case. OP was taken advantage of for years.

