

Ask HN: What engineering decipline does weapon design come under? - digamber_kamat

Can someone tell me what engineering degree will help me to design Guns, handguns and related research areas?
======
dkimball
I wouldn't imagine there's much of a market for small-arms design. It's an
old-school, natural-monopoly sort of subject, one of those for which the slow,
careful, bureaucratic model that Paul Graham (correctly!) condemns for
software was originally devised.

So I'd expect three things to drive down the value of small-arms designers:
the point that variable costs are much higher than fixed ones in small-arms
manufacturing; the presence of bureaucratic inertia in the militaries and
police agencies who represent the main customers; and the fact that the
problem domain is very well-understood and has been for quite some time. The
AK-47 is showing its age, but is still viable; the H&K G3, the FN FAL, and the
M-14 are all around 60 years old (the M-16 is a newcomer at 50 years, and the
"space-age" bullpups, the Steyr AUG and SA80, are around 30); and the Colt
M1911 was designed before the First World War and, from what I understand, is
still one of the best pistols on the market.

There are a few "cutting-edge" weapons that are just coming into use -- the
Tavor and the H&K G36, most obviously -- but I think these reflect a change in
the perceived threat environment more than an advance in technology.

So, in other words: I'm not sure that there's very much to _do_ in the field
of small-arms design. There are some small, innovative companies in the field
-- Calico Light Weapons Systems is an obvious one -- but the problem with
being a small, innovative manufacturer of firearms is that you don't have much
of a market. Even when Bill Clinton _isn't_ in office, private citizens will
never spend the kind of money on small arms that governments do.

I want to emphasize that I'm coming at this from the perspective of an
interested amateur, and my interest is more in infantry tactics than in the
weapons they use to implement them -- so there may be factors here that I
don't know about. I'd second the recommendations by hga and gexla: contact
people who know more about this, but, I'd say, prepare to be a little
disappointed. (Aerospace engineering strikes me as being a field which is
still evolving, and thus ought to be more promising for someone with an
interest in designing weapons systems.)

~~~
hga
Actually, the US civilian market is _very_ big (heck, consumption of ammo is
above 5 _billion_ rounds a year). Enough that FN has been pleasantly surprised
by demand for the PS90, civilians are snapping up SCARs as fast as FN can make
civilian models above the demands of the military (they made lemonade out of a
batch of aluminum receiver parts that had been anodized to the wrong shade and
sold them as a special edition).

The nationwide sweep of shall issue concealed carry licensing has sharply
increased demand for carry handguns. While people like me are happy with
modernized M1911s for full sized guns, others aren't and new popular models
are still coming out. Probably the biggest explosion is in "mouseguns", small
.380 or 9mm handguns that are easier to conceal, especially in the summer.
Many new models have come out recently.

I'd say the area of "black guns" (widely construed, not just AR-15 derived) is
pretty healthy. Lots of stuff happening with AR-15 pattern guns (including
driving them with pistons), lots of people looking for alternatives and
various companies are delivering in one way or another.

Compared to aerospace, there's got to be hundreds more companies that someone
could go to work for. Aerospace went bust in the early '70s and never
recovered. The US civilian firearms market may be iffy as the economy
continues to sour and the Democrats continue to treat gun control like a new
third rail, but I'd sure pick firearms over aerospace, if for no other reason
than there being such a range of OEMs (in sizes, from garage sized outfits to
giants like FN, S&W and Ruger).

~~~
dkimball
Very, very interesting -- and if I habitually wore a hat, I think I'd have to
eat it at this point. :)

~~~
hga
Heh ... in all fairness, I'm pretty sure I only developed this level of
understanding of the US firearms industry in the last few years, and part of
it is my focus on FN (my family has been buying their stuff for a _long_ time,
going back to a FN marked 16 gauge Browning Auto-5 that my grandfather or
father bought in the '30s or '40s).

One of the things that caught my eye about FN was the reason for their
fidelity to the US civilian market: unlike government sales, it's reliable and
fair (you don't have to bribe us to buy FN :-). Hmmm, now that I think about
it, I'll bet the US civilian market earned back the development costs for the
P90, it's intended market disappeared (designed to penetrate Warsaw Pact body
armor with ammo we can't buy) and other sales have been limited.

But Americans just love the little puppies (hey, it's _really_ innovative and
looks like a weapon of the future, I'm sure it's use on StarGate didn't hurt,
and it's well featured in anime) ... if I could afford a "fun" gun I'd buy one
in a second.

Plus I don't like direct impingement (the AR-10/15 design) so I've paid close
attention to all the alternatives, of which there are many. And e.g. bought a
SIG-556, which is the love child of a SIG-551 and an M4 (stamped steel upper,
forged aluminum lower (which shaves off a pound which my RSI limited arms
really appreciate)) and was impressed by the aftermarket parts activity for
this fairly obscure gun (they'd only sold 10s of thousands).

Plus buying a mousegun is next on my list, after .380 ammo becomes available
again.

~~~
digamber_kamat
Guys you had a very informative discussion here nevertheless I am not
interested in knowing if it is a good career whether is has good opportunities
etc. Of course nothing wrong in your assuming it so given the way I had framed
the question.

Motive was to do a self study in that area. I am very sure that security
concerns at all levels will only increase over the next 10-20 years and there
is a scope for lot of innovative stuff.

------
hga
I would go for Mechanical Engineering if I were you.

Do you live in or plan to study in the US? Even if you don't, try contacting
the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Shooting_Sports_Founda...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Shooting_Sports_Foundation))
and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Arms_and_Ammunition_Ma...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Arms_and_Ammunition_Manufacturers%27_Institute)).
In Europe, the equivalent of SAAMI is The Commission Internationale Permanente
pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives (C.I.P.,
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Perma...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Internationale_Permanente_pour_l%27Epreuve_des_Armes_%C3%A0_Feu_Portatives))

I can dig up a German small arms research organization out of my email
archives if you're interested.

------
gexla
Check the career pages of weapons manufacturers.

<http://www.heckler-koch.de/Apprenticeship>

