
Derek Yu’s “Spelunky” - benbreen
http://tinaja.computer/2016/05/21/spelunky.html
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webkike
I want to make a comment on Spelunky on such a long time; here is a fraction
of my thoughts:

Spelunky is one of the greatest video games ever created. It is pure
perfection and I believe this to the fullest possible extent since playing the
game for what must be seven years now.

It is an absolute treatise in good gameplay mechanics. Zero percent of it is
an interactive story (save the intro and end, barely), it simply excels in
being some of purest expression of what makes a game fun to play.

It has a little physics engine - one with no positional resolution (except for
tiles) - that keeps the game constantly feeling smooth. The reason
acceleration is put into a game, is because linear motion is so bizarre
without it. That's kind of off topic but it's true.

What some people don't realize is that you can play spelunky however you want
and it stays challenging, and the way you play the game changes over time.
When I first started playing, I would methodically go through most of the
rooms. Now I go straight to the exit. That may seem like hardly a difference,
but the process was very much an evolution of giving up what I thought was
necessary to beat the game using my own skills.

The only flaw I have found with Spelunky (and this is arguable): the
teleporter is rng. mr yu pls fix.

I have so much more to say but I won't bore you.

~~~
zzalpha
Weird, as a roguelike fan, I find Spelunky enormously tedious and repetitive.
I would much rather crack out BoI or good ol' Nethack.

And that's not for lack of trying. I've spent many hours trying to find
satisfaction in Spelunky. But no matter the amount of time I put into it, it
always seems like you're far more likely to be punished by bad luck than
rewarded for skill or thoughtful play.

Perhaps I've just never gotten over some hump in the game, but I also find it
remarkably shallow for a roguelike.

Of course this is all a matter of taste, but I thought it only fair to offer a
counterpoint to your glowing review. :)

~~~
chongli
I'm a veteran roguelike player as well. I've beaten BoI, ascended NetHack
quite a few times and beaten Spelunky many times as well. Out of those 3,
Spelunky is the only one I keep coming back to. NetHack and BoI, to me, are
monstrously tedious exercises in building an "ascension kit" and then merely
brute-forcing the remainder of the game with it. Spelunky, on the other hand,
stays fresh and challenging no matter what items you get.

As for luck? Spelunky is the least luck-based game out of the 3. It's possible
to beat the game with no items at all. The enemies all behave in deterministic
ways and there are no dice rolls involved in the combat. Winning comes down to
a combination of manual skills and experience at reading the situations and
reacting appropriately. Most of the times I die these days come down to taking
unnecessary risks (milking the ghost for diamonds or murdering all the
shopkeepers in the black market) in the hopes of racking up a really high
score.

~~~
zzalpha
That may very well be why I find the game so tedious.

I _want_ a roguelike to offer me tools/equipment/power ups that offset the
difficulty such that I don't constantly feel abused by the game.

Spelunky isn't designed that way. You can't stack items so all you can do is
pick those items that best match your play style. Beyond that it does very
little to help you... it's _deeply_ and fundamentally unforgiving.

Combine that with the lack of variability in level design (while the levels
are individually procedurally generated, each major section of the game feels
very similar from run to run), and whenever I play I find I'm just waiting for
my next jump to not be quite precise enough, leading to YASD.

So I suspect for those that really revel in highly precise platformers with
zero room for error, Spelunky is probably a great game. For me it's just game
after game of deep frustration.

Edit:

BTW I'll happily admit that what I call bad luck is probably just a lack of
skill. Unfortunately I doubt I'll ever develop the level of timing and
precision necessary to play Spelunky well. And because the margins of error
are so small, it _feels_ like bad luck when I die... again...

~~~
chongli
I guess you have a different idea of tedious than me! :)

Things are tedious to me only when they aren't challenging. If something is
frustrating and really hard, it only makes me want to try again and again and
again. If something is easy but just takes many steps to get done, I find it
tedious and boring!

NetHack was my first roguelike and I absolutely adored it when I was learning
it. I found it very intense and challenging and exciting going for my first
ascension run. After having done it more than 10 times, I now just find it
tedious. There is so much stuff to do that doesn't take any skill at all such
as: item identification, Sokoban (same puzzles over and over for years),
castle wand, magic marker, reverse genocide silver dragons, writing tons of
enchant scrolls, doing the invocation ritual... It feels more like filling out
government paperwork than playing a game.

~~~
zzalpha
Yeah, I get that. I actually find BoI hits pretty good sweet spot in that
regard. While I enjoy an OP build, most are playable (as evidenced by the
challenges), so it doesn't feel like checking boxes on a spreadsheet, but it
also feels like the game rewards you as you progress.

For me I find Spelunky just swings too far the other way.

But to each their own! I know plenty of people who love it. And talking about
it now, I'm tempted to take another crack at it... :)

~~~
chongli
Haha, if you do: take your time and really pay attention to your surroundings
and make a plan before you proceed. Leave the speedrunning to people who play
the game thousands of times in a row! Enjoy! :)

I think I'm gonna play some Tales of Maj'Eyal (another box ticker I can't seem
to stop playing)!

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michaelbuckbee
It might just be me, but I didn't immediately realize that the article was
about Derek Yu's new book [1] about the making of the rougelike indie game [2]
Spelunky.

1-[https://www.amazon.com/Spelunky-Boss-Fight-Books-Book-
ebook/...](https://www.amazon.com/Spelunky-Boss-Fight-Books-Book-
ebook/dp/B01CYVHYSS)

2-[http://store.steampowered.com/app/239350/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/239350/)

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foxhedgehog
I was in college with Derek, he was a gift both to CS classes and to the
campus humor magazine, where I worked with him. He did a particularly great
drawing of our data structures prof on the whiteboard one day.

~~~
bakadana
His additions to the Heuristic Squelch were always fantastic too!

~~~
deepnet
Derek Yu drew the cover for Vol 13, Issue 2

[http://squelched.com/issue/volume-13-issue-2-flaming-poo-
bag...](http://squelched.com/issue/volume-13-issue-2-flaming-poo-bag/)

~~~
bakadana
My favorite was Volume 11, Issue 5:

[http://squelched.com/category/volume-11/11-5/](http://squelched.com/category/volume-11/11-5/)

but seriously, he did so much at for Squelch. The office was covered with
things.

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Zelmor
While on the topic of Spelunky, I have to mention that I hope Yu or someone
ports it to linux. I would love to play it on the future Steamboy handheld
console, if it ever releases. I do not own a Vita, as it is saturated by
Japanese titles, for which I care little. I do have quite a couple linux
compatible games on steam, however. Also, if I could stream from my PC to this
device on the go, similar to the Vita, that would be splendid.

Here's hoping. Derek!

~~~
intoverflow2
> I do not own a Vita

I bought one specifically for Spelunky actually, then BOI came out which I
went on to 100% Platinum on the device. I'd never have bothered to do that
playing either of those on a PC.

Excellent device for games like these and the best d-pad I've ever used

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softeyeblacware
Where's Trigger Happy 2, tho!?

