
The Day the Moon Blew Up - JacobJans
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/Seveneves
======
eganist
Seveneves is one of my favorites, even though it gets mixed reactions from a
lot of others who've read titles like Anathem. I can't compare it to Anathem
(the only other Stephenson book I've read so far is Cryptonomicon; looking to
change that), but I can say I love the technical depth. Perhaps it's because
it helps me suspend disbelief much more easily, though Bill's point that "if
you’re the sort of reader who doesn’t care how such a thing might work, you
will find yourself skimming parts of Seveneves" is probably true for most lay
readers.

The only thing that somewhat frustrated me about it, as I suspect is the case
for most people, is the fact that the last third of the book feels like it
could (should?) stand on its own. That being said, there's enough room for
Stephenson to explore in more depth some of the events leading up to the third
act in subsequent novels... so here's hoping. I figure explaining why I feel
this way would be a bit of a spoiler. Bill does enough to allude to it.

Anyway, thumbs up from me. I enjoyed every bit of it, and Bill's review does a
good job of selling the book without spoiling it.

~~~
yoodenvranx
> The only thing that somewhat frustrated me about it, as I suspect is the
> case for most people, is the fact that the last third of the book feels like
> it could (should?) stand on its own

For me that last third part feels... rushed? I can not really explain it but
the first two thirds of the book were awesome and then when you reach the last
part you feel like Stephenson had to meed a deadline for printing and that
part is just tacked onto the main story. It is way too short for its content,
I feel like Stephenson could spend a good two or three books exploring this
new story arc.

~~~
chiph
Stephenson tends to rush his endings - Cryptonomicon basically wrapped up in
about 30 pages. But what got me was the abrupt change in view on that last
third of Seveneves. I needed more transition time, as he's introducing a whole
new society.

~~~
perseusprime11
Isn't it the case for most notable scifi books? Enders game wrapped up pretty
quickly in the final few pages.

------
ef4
The first third of Seveneves is a real gut punch. The only other world-ending
story that comes close in terms of emotional impact for me was Arthur C.
Clarke's "Childhood's End".

Stephenson manages to show humanity in all its realistic messiness but still
leave you proud -- on balance -- that humans mostly get our act together in a
desperate attempt to preserve a seed of life and culture.

~~~
agf
I found Childhood's End an extremely unpleasant read, and so that comparison
makes it hard for me to even think about reading Seveneves. It was just so
depressing, taking the concept of isolation to such an extreme it felt
abusive. Or maybe I shouldn't have read it while isolated myself (literally
living and working in the middle of nowhere without transportation and minimal
contact with anyone I was close to).

Maybe if I'd read Seveneves without ever having heard this comparison, I would
have made it through to the part that makes you proud, but at this point I
doubt that's possible.

Going to skip this one, and I'd suggest everyone else skip Childhood's End.

~~~
fsloth
I read Childhood's End over 20 years ago but from what I recall I felt it was
just an awesome book. I do not recall it being particularly depressing.

~~~
vidarh
It's an awesome book either way, but it can be read very much either in a
hopeful vein, or a very depressing one:

(Spoiler warning; for various works for the rest of this comment - assume that
if I mention a work, there'll be a spoiler later in the sentence...)

Humanity stagnates before ending as the last of humanity's children transforms
and are isolated from their parents. The parents generation slowly or not so
slowly die out and no more children are born. The transformed children become
one single collective intelligence, and that too is subsumed into a greater
mind. In the end, the last actual human stays on an earth that evaporates.

On one hand humanity has "ascended" to a higher stage. On the other hand what
is left bears no resemblance to humanity.

It belongs to a peculiar and I think quite rare strand of scifi where humanity
abandoned humanity and was in the end entirely gone (as opposed to e.g. post-
apocalyptic settings where there are still humans left, and where most of the
stories tend to end on a hopeful note for repopulation), set in the near-ish
future (as opposed to e.g. books like Stapledons Last and First Men, which
also describes the end of humanity, but where the end is set millions of years
into the future). I don't think that strand is seen very often any more.

There's been plenty, both then and later, where Earth has been abandoned and
forgotten by a human diaspora that lives on elsewhere (e.g. Asimov's
Robots/Empire/Foundation universe goes there), but that tends to have a very
different feel to the stories where humanity just "fades away" or transforms.

My other favourite equally definitive end would be Clifford D. Simak's "City"
which is told in the form of legends told by talking dogs of how humans left
to transform into something else and eventually disappear.

Another, of sorts, would be Clarke's "City and the Stars", where there are
still humans, but only two cities left on Earth after everyone else left and
likely ascended. That difference, though, gives it a very different, more
hopeful feel (but the last few pages of City and the Stars is the only book to
have ever given me the chills), similar to the post-apocalyptic stories of
small groups that endures.

Many others have gone with the "humanity almost wiped out, but not quite, oh
and here's redeeming factors" theme, such as the various incarnations of
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, where one becomes increasingly callous about
the repeated destructions of variations of earth as the series progresses to
the point where it's more of a regular event to cheer on safe in the knowledge
earth will pop back into existence somehow sooner or later (even Douglas Adams
attempt at getting his publisher to shut up about another sequel by ending
Mostly Harmless with the destruction of Earth in every reality in the entire
multiverse and then going ahead and dying on us didn't stop another sequel
from being written ("And another thing..." by Eoin Colfer; surprisingly good
for falling in the "lets try to repeatedly murder this story with Vogon death
rays" category)).

Titan A.E. is another of the modern dark-ish depictions that gets close to
finality, where humanity for most of it is depicted as just a few scattered
remnants, but there is hope and not a definitive line drawn under it that in
the end makes it quite a hopeful story.

Battlestar Galactica (both incarnations) falls in a similar category where the
impending doom starts, gets nasty, and then you reach a steady-state of sorts
(though the regular updates on the dwindling number of colonists does help to
keep it dark), but then is never drawn to its conclusion, and that fails to
make it as solemn.

There are of course other "nearly but not quite the end" stories.

Iain M Banks last Culture novel - The Hydrogen Sonata - has a similar theme,
but set on an alien planet where the civilization has decided to ascend. It's
a great book, but it too doesn't feel as dark, I guess, because it isn't the
end of _humanity_.

The solemn feeling that this is the _end_ , and not an end set in a very far
distant future, but not that far from now is present in Childhoods End and
City. The atmosphere in those are also aided by describing the aftermath,
including descriptions of the pain of many of those who feel left behind.

I'm sure there are others that I should remember, but I'm too tired to think
of any right now. And I'm sure there are some I'm entirely unaware of. I'd be
very interested in similar stories, and especially if there are any modern
ones that are as "final" (as in: conclusively end with the end of mankind in
the near future, instead of copping out with the existence of some small
remaining group, or dragging it out into the far future).

~~~
mirimir
SPOILER ALERT

The second Battlestar Galactica series does reach a conclusion, sort of. It
ends with a loop backward in time, through a black hole. Surviving humans and
humanoid Cylons interbreed with protohumans. So history is cyclical.

~~~
vidarh
I don't think that description is right. They never fall into the black hole -
they jump away. Unless I'm badly misremembering, it's pretty clear that the
Battlestar Galactica crew's ancestors "earth" is a different planet.

At least the characters believe it is, and the Baltar and Six that appears in
the epilogue also talks about it as a different planet and a new cycle.

While the theme of cyclical history is recurring throughout the series, that
is about recurrence of a similar set of events, as in hinduism [1], not an
actual loop.

[1]
[http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_time.asp](http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_time.asp)

~~~
mirimir
Maybe so. But the city in the epilogue does look very 21st century. That might
just have reflected budgetary constraints, however. As in Caprica.

~~~
vidarh
That's because the epilogue takes place on our Earth in the 21st century. But
the "real" Earth they found earlier and left again was not. In-universe "our"
Earth is named Earth because they named it as a reference to "their" Earth
(which had been reduced to rubble).

~~~
mirimir
OK, I need to go back and watch the last few episodes. I know that they had
found a destroyed Earth. But then they went to that Cylon base, in orbit
around a black hole. And then they fell in, as they were fighting their way
out. And _then_ they ended up back on the Earth, ~50 thousand years ago. Or at
least, that's what my wife and I remember :)

------
eric_arrr
A couple of fun things hidden (or not exactly) in this video:

There's no missing a couple of Neal's swordfighting buddies at 1:07.

Wondering where the camera stand is? Look for its reflection in the window
behind Bill at 1:52.

What car did Bill drive to the meet-up? Probably not the Model X. My money is
on the Porsche 959 shown at 2:17.

(It's also a safe bet that the meet-up actually began at the Burgermaster,
since that's in Bill's neighborhood. That way Bill only has to make one round-
trip to Seattle instead of two.)

I'm totally failing to get the joke with the shovels and pickaxes at the
corner of Boyer & Howe at 2:40. (Surely not a macabre gag as they cross
towards Lakeview cemetery...)

And of course the gaggle of kids in Madison Park at 2:54 are observing the
moon through a telescope.

~~~
dingo_bat
Why wouldn't gates drive a tesla x?

~~~
eric_arrr
Bill might well drive a Model X and any number of other cars -- his daily was
an armored mid-90's Lexus LS for many years -- but if there's a Porsche 959
parked at the south Kirkland Burgermaster, the odds are overwhelming that it
belongs to Bill.

This because only 345 Porsche 959's were ever built, and none were eligible
for import into the US. That is, until Bill made himself instrumental in the
passage of the show and display importation exemption* so that he could buy
one.

* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_or_Display](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_or_Display)

~~~
adventured
Gates owns a silver 959. This one:

[https://www.instagram.com/p/MgiOYcGyhI/](https://www.instagram.com/p/MgiOYcGyhI/)

~~~
eric_arrr
The silver one was presumed his, but not confirmed as such.

But Bill being Bill, he might be collecting them. :)

------
100k
"If Stephenson wrote Huckleberry Finn it would be 4,000 pages long and mostly
about paddlewheel design"

\--
[https://twitter.com/baconmeteor/status/663076130077802496](https://twitter.com/baconmeteor/status/663076130077802496)

I have heard good things about this book, but it has been a while since I
could get into Neal Stephenson's work. My favorite is one of his earliest,
Zodiac. It's the only book of his I've read that doesn't just...end.

~~~
yoodenvranx
> "If Stephenson wrote Huckleberry Finn it would be 4,000 pages long and
> mostly about paddlewheel design"

And this is the exact reason why Stephenson is one of my favorite authors.

------
blisterpeanuts
I greatly enjoyed some of Stephenson's other works, but I was actually a bit
disappointed with Seveneves. The narrative is well crafted, but unfortunately
I just got stuck on the whole space ark concept and couldn't suspend disbelief
enough to continue.

Maybe someone else can explain why it made sense to focus on an orbiting
refuge, right in the path of the Moon's fragments, rather than dig a bunch of
underground cities that would have saved many times more people.

Midway through the first unit, I basically decided they should have dug
tunnels ten miles long, one mile deep at bottom, lay tracks, and just go full
steam carting rocks out while digging massive caverns. They could move entire
hospitals, schools, factories, labs, etc. into these places, store tons of
food and supplies, lay pipes to connect to underground water supplies, set up
parks, farms, and animal preserves using artificial solar lighting. Makes so
much more sense to me than this nutty space station idea. And with gravity,
access to minerals, oxygen, etc.

I love space as much as the next geek, but if you want to save millions of
humans, you've got to dig.

~~~
aetherson
Well...... You'd clearly be right if you were looking at a timeframe of a few
years, or a few decades, or maybe a century or two.

But if you successfully establish a long term presence in space, you've got
access to a lot of resources. If you're stuck in a hole in the ground for
5,000 years, and the surface is considerably more hostile than space, I think
there's at least a colorable argument that space is the way to go.

Spoilers for the end of the book follow.

As it happens, remnants of humanity survive in space, underground, and
underwater. This was the part of the story that broke my suspension of
disbelief. I just couldn't really buy the end-third societies. It's like
Stephenson couldn't get his mind around how long 5,000 years actually is.

Just as a for-example, language: In 3,000 BC, there might have been an unknown
language that we designate proto-Indo-European because we don't actually have
any texts that reference it. Proto-Indo-European might have begat another
language that is still so ancient that we can only guess at it that we
designate proto-Germanic which begat a family of West-German languages that
begat Old English that begat Middle English that begat modern English.

Meanwhile, in 7,000 AD, apparently they speak a light pidgin of modern English
that's pretty understandable to modern English speakers.

I get Stephenson's argument for why his far-future cultures are so directly
related to the action in the first two thirds of the book, I just can't quite
buy it.

~~~
usrusr
Humanity has little experience with the speed of language evolution in
presence of audiovisual recording technology. The Quran did not prevent Arabic
dialects from diverging, but it sure slowed down evolution compared to other
languages that did not have their own religious texts or got translations only
much later. I think it is quite reasonable to expect an even lower amount of
change with a vast, well studied corpus of audiovisual material.

(My personal illusion breaker was thermal management of the off-screen
survivors: I usually would not dare to nitpick on such a thing, but when the
topic has been elaborated so deeply for the ark-dwellers, I just can't switch
back to the default mode of happy ignorance that quickly, in the same book)

------
RangerScience
The whole last third of the book makes waaay more sense when you think of it
as an MMO backstory:

\- Two factions (literally, red and blue) with mostly the same but kinda
different everything

\- Thirteen-plus subspecies of human, with their own unique racial bonuses and
skills (chain whip thing!).

\- Pristine, empty, Earth-like local, ripe for building...

\- ...and with monsters! And treasure!

Right?!

~~~
usrusr
Or a fanfic playground, where writers are free to reuse the same basic cast of
predefined stereotypes without interfering with each other's characters.

I think it's typical Stephenson: start with a clearly identifiable grand idea,
get wildly sidetracked working towards it until the digressions are something
much better, leave a skeletal version of the original idea for the end.

------
jonathankoren
Note to future VR directors:

Don't do edits, and God don't change the default orientation of the camera! I
know that goes against against 127 years of cinematic history, but moving the
camera's default focus seriously confused my spatial awareness. I've turned so
I can see them both, but oh no now I'm outside on the street, and now I'm back
inside, but suddenly I'm rotated 60 degrees.

If this wasn't VR, it would t matter but in VR, it's putting the audience on
teacup ride.

------
Jedd
I believe I've read all of Stephenson's books (yes, even The Big U)

Seveneves is in the top 5, but only just -- the Baroque Cycle (though not sci-
fi) takes up three of the first five spots.

In terms of can't-put-down-once-started, Reamde tops the list, but, again, not
sci-fi.

People seem to want to compare the content to Anathem, even suggesting it may
fit into the same universe - though I can't see it myself. For what it's
worth, both his SF and non-SF works are enjoyed by my other half, who usually
eschews anything SF - so despite the alleged 'science-heavy style', there's
one data point that suggests it's not as problematic as some reviewers expect
it would be.

~~~
mirimir
I also loved _The Baroque Cycle_ , and _Mongoliad_ (which also, now that I
think of it, features that immortal mystic). It's hard to explain the
connection with _Anathem_ without too many spoilers. So I'll just note that
Earth does explicitly exist in the _Anathem_ universe.

~~~
Jedd
Oh, I've read both Anathem and Seveneves, and while I appreciate that Earth is
referenced in the former, I don't recall anything that felt like it may
connect (no hint of a multiverse in Seveneves, f.e.).

I think I read some interview with Neal a while back where he said he hadn't
considered writing anything else in the same universe as Seveneves, but if
there was interest, he may come up with something. Obviously there's quite a
few ways such a follow-up could go.

Probably time, and a good excuse, to re-read Anathem.

~~~
mirimir
It's the Purpose vibe. Plus all the mystery about the Agent. But then, I
didn't get the _Hitchhikers ' Guide_ joke about that :(

~~~
rtkwe
Many of Stephenson's books have some hint of Purpose to them. Either the
characters are working towards their own purpose a la Avi and HEAP + Crypt or
are being guided by people with a purpose like Fraa Erasmas in Anathem or
Hacksworth in Diamond Age.

------
Tyr42
I was just getting into Kerbal Space Program at the same time I started
reading this book, and it's amazing how well they tie together. I would learn
something about orbital mechanics in KSP, and then see it applied in the book,
and I really enjoyed that feeling.

------
TeMPOraL
Seveneves is one of the best sci-fi books I've ever read. It was a hard
emotional ride.

(small spoiler follows)

One of the interesting gems I remember: the surviving humans looked back at
the recordings of their ancestors, in particular about how their behaviour was
affected by social networks - and collectively decided not to pursue that
aspect of the Internet.

(This may actually be a plausible in-universe answer for why there's no
Facebook in Star Trek.)

~~~
pavedwalden
Watching people fight on Facebook and Twitter, I frequently recall
Stephenson's vision of the human race nearly destroying itself with flame
wars.

------
CurtMonash
Larry Niven was awesome at apocalypses. The short story Inconstant Moon is one
of the greats, plus he did a couple of thick novels on the theme with
Pournelle -- Lucifer's Hammer and Footfall.

------
vessenes
My theory about the book, and the reason why there's such a tone change at the
end is that this book is the kickoff to a much larger cycle.

If it is, I think there's an authorial question -- when do you shift gears to
the far future, and how? It makes some sense to me that readers might find the
style transition jarring between volumes. Also, some of the cool stuff starts
to happen later.

So, perhaps -- hopefully -- we can look forward to more. There's plenty teed
up in the novel; it seems like every group of humans that went out on their
own survived in some way, (making me think the Mars folks are going to be
around at some point), and we still haven't found out just who blew up the
moon.

Stephenson created the Hieroglyph project, trying to get sci fi authors to
inspire more science, and I suppose more faith in humanity. I would be
surprised if we don't get more of this story aimed at inspiring us in a
variety of ways.

~~~
bostonpete
> it seems like every group of humans that went out on their own survived in
> some way

The survival of both the other two groups seemed pretty far fetched to me.

~~~
vessenes
Just wait for Mars.. :)

I had the same reaction at first. But, then I was thinking about dogs; dogs
evolve really quickly under pressure. If that's not a high pressure evolution
event, I don't know what is.

I'm curious to read more about everyone in any event. Here's hoping.

~~~
obbybreeden
SPOILERSSSSSSS

It's not even about evolution. Imagine if the 7 eves weren't playing some
weird genetic metagame, but instead had one over-arching problem to solve.

The main dilemma of the Pingers was how to survive underwater, and they had as
much technology (if not more, there's more submarines in existence than ISS
modules). They also had tons of food (think of how many whales died, and how
long whale fall ecosystems last). And a nice natural shield consisting of the
ocean.

If the Aidans could bring back the Neanderthal, then the Pingers probably
started their experiments early and often.

------
RangerScience
I _devoured_ Seveness. The first third of the book - the consideration of what
I might do if faced with such a reality - was perhaps the most I've ever felt
reading a book. (The contender for that would be Wise Man's Fear)

I find that question waaay more effective than "what would you do with a
billion dollars?". Everything you know and love will be gone, completely, with
the barest chance that you can contribute to _something_ surviving... But you
have time enough left to love it. Or contribute to _something_ surviving.

It's pretty intense.

------
hyperpallium
boy-being meets girl-being beneath silvery moon, which then explodes for no
adequately explored reason.

~~~
bostonpete
What do you mean? They thoroughly explained it -- it was an agent!

~~~
rspeer
It's a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. (In particular, what the
band Disaster Area's songs are about.)

------
kaonashi
Some not-so-hard science fiction on the same topic:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csj7vMKy4EI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csj7vMKy4EI)

------
j1vms
360° video interview at the parent link (also works with mobile phone VR
headsets - though didn't try it) is surprisingly pleasant, effective and
amusing too. For example, when they are in the car, it's nice to be able to
look elsewhere if you already get bored staring at the two of them.

The director was a bit quirky I guess: there is even a play sword battle
between two anonymous dudes on the side of the road, early on in the video (!)

Edit: Someone did already post about the above.

------
dbcooper
>Seveneves belongs in the subgenre of hard science fiction, which means it
emphasizes scientific accuracy. Everything adheres to physical laws, so unlike
Star Wars, no one travels anywhere near the speed of light.

A pity then that a little basic chemistry eluded both the writer and the
critic - there's no carbon on the moon. Rather difficult to support humans,
and carry out feats of biotechnology, without it...

~~~
JacobJans
What do you mean? In the book, the moon explodes and destroys the world.
Pretty much the exact opposite of supporting humans.

~~~
dbcooper
My understanding is that the surviving humans shelter in "the cleft", which is
a fragment of the moon. They then use biotechnology techniques to repopulate.
Even when limited to the biotech operations, they would need a lot of carbon
based materials.

Keith Robison has some thoughts on it:

[http://omicsomics.blogspot.co.nz/2015/12/thoughts-on-
synthet...](http://omicsomics.blogspot.co.nz/2015/12/thoughts-on-synthetic-
biology-of.html)

------
ShardPhoenix
The meeting seemed a little content-free, I wonder if there was some other
discussion happening off-camera? Like, "I'll fund the movie version" or
something. Or maybe Gates is really just like "Hey I liked your book, let's
get hamburgers in VR".

------
astrowilliam
Definitely one of my favorite books. I bought a hard copy and read through it
immediately. Then I got the audio book and listened to it in my car while
commuting. What a great piece of work.

------
peteretep
The character identification bit is interesting. I had assumed the president
was meant to be Hillary Clinton until I read someone angrily complaining about
his take-down of Sarah Palin...

~~~
mseebach
Well, the book was written in the age of Palin more than Clinton, so the
parallel is inviting - but isn't JBF a pretty well read big city liberal,
generally well respected in Doobs circles? It's a _very_ subtle dig.

However, I read JBF as a catch-all figure for everything bad about politicians
(generally useless, except to ferment conflict to serve their own path to
power), so it's not surprising that people would project whatever politician
they don't like onto her.

In other words, she's _both_ Palin and Hillary.

~~~
pavedwalden
When asked about the Hillary comparison at a book signing, Stephenson said
that he hadn't wanted the character to represent Hillary and thought it was
unfortunate that many readers would make that assumption just because there
were so few alternative public figures to map the character to. He gave no
hint as to there being anyone in particular she was supposed to be.

------
GantzGraf
Was anybody else turned off by the author's approach to characterisation in
this book? I feel like he's over-explaining their reasoning/motivation for
doing the things they do to the point where it's irritating. It's like he's
trying to tell you everything about a character in the shortest time possible.
No subtlety.

Am I overreacting? I'm still within the first third but I don't think I'll be
able to get through the book if it's entirely like this.

~~~
dsr_
Characterization is not one of Stephenson's strong points.

Try an experiment: skip to 2/3 through the book, where it says "Five thousand
years later..." and pick it up as though it were a new book. I think you might
be happier.

------
saadrizvi
I enjoyed Seveneves but thought it wasn't Stephenson's best work by far.

I'd rate Anathem and Snow Crash much higher than it.

~~~
scholia
Same here, plus The Diamond Age. I read them all as they came out, and the
shorter earlier books (The Big U, Snowcrash) had much more impact _on me_ than
the longer later ones.

Or course, it's impossible to read Snowcrash today and feel anything like the
same impact because ideas that were pretty far out way back then are
commonplace today.

~~~
saadrizvi
+1 on Diamond Age - awesome book.

------
ctvo
I enjoyed Seveneves. I'd recommend Luna: New Moon by Ian McDonald as another
recent moon-based book that's enjoyable sci-if. Mega corporations rule the
moon and the government largely ignores what they do as long as raw materials
are still delivered to Earth.

------
ChicagoDave
I started reading Seveneves about 4 days ago. Been sitting on my nightstand
for months. It's dry, but scary/sad as fuck.

------
pointernil
I love how the book manages to tell just 1/3 of the whole story ;)

~~~
mirimir
Actually, it's more like a quarter, or a fifth ;)

~~~
pointernil
Hard to discuss without spoilers but do you mean story-time-wise or story-
line-wise?

~~~
mirimir
I mean story-line-wise. Specifically, group-wise.

~~~
pointernil
Ah, so true! Thanks for reminding me.

------
redthrowaway

        $('#ArticleDropUpshareHolder').remove()

~~~
kristianp
Thanks, that's handy. I wish there was a complement to adblock that removed
useless things that cover text, like email harvesting popups and other things
that have to be closed manually.

~~~
redthrowaway
The problem is that most of these things are hand-rolled. It's not like ads,
where you can just block iframes that point at blacklisted domains. The ids
and classes of those annoying things will be specific to each site, so it's
hard to target.

You could probably remove anything that had onscroll functionality defined,
and just accept that it would break some websites.

------
smpetrey
I love that Mr. Gates drives a Tesla :)

------
Houshalter
Talk about misleading titles.

------
B1FF_PSUVM
> I should get back to reading sci-fi again.

Tsk. Old enough to know that you read SF, watch sci-fi. Card, please.

------
perseusprime11
Dude! this is 880 pages long.

