
North Korean biochemical expert flees to Finland: source - willvarfar
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2015/07/02/0200000000AEN20150702010200320.html
======
UnoriginalGuy
I'm going to wait for trusted experts to look at the data, before I assume
this is true. However if the data holds up then I'm not sure what the West can
do, only China seems to have the ability to influence NK right now (as we've
already sanctioned them about as much as we can).

PS - The reason my initial reaction is skeptical is not that this type of
thing cannot happen (as we witnessed during WWII). It is that other defectors
have defected from NK before and told the West exactly what we wanted to hear
so they'd receive preferential treatment, these claims get splashed all over
the headlines, then it turns out further down the road these people's accounts
might not be true (and the corrections are on page 5 in a one paragraph
story). But raw data is very compelling proof, hard to fake, so as soon as it
has been verified I'll buy it.

~~~
oxide
What corrections? What is 'not exactly' true?

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/world/asia/prominent-
north...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/world/asia/prominent-north-korean-
defector-shin-dong-hyuk-recants-parts-of-his-story.html?_r=0)

[http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-strange-tale-of-yeonmi-
pa...](http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-strange-tale-of-yeonmi-park/)

[http://adamcathcart.com/2014/10/09/north-korea-
misinformatio...](http://adamcathcart.com/2014/10/09/north-korea-
misinformation-bingo/)

[http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/north-
korean-...](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/north-korean-
defector-mig-fighter-pilot-harden-116146_Page3.html#.VZWwsPlVhBc)

------
akavel
Is there any way an outside person can somehow help the cause of human rights
protection for North Koreans? I understand that it's the place where the worst
things on Earth are happening in our times, but have no slightest idea if it's
anyhow possible to help the oppressed people...

 _edit:_

Wikipedia suggests e.g. this:
[http://www.libertyinnorthkorea.org/](http://www.libertyinnorthkorea.org/)
(via
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_in_North_Korea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_in_North_Korea),
via
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#In...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_North_Korea#International_reaction))
as a charity rescuing NK defectors hiding in China into US. That said, can one
anyhow confirm if they do what they advertise? Still, I plan to try donating
regularly to them anyway now (which may be cumbersome without a credit card),
unless I manage to find something looking even better anyhow.

Another option from Wikipedia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_Strategy_Center](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_Strategy_Center)
( _" sent over (...) 400 radio sets (...) into North Korea"_ \-- I recall
people living under communist regime in the past as mentioning that radio is
important for giving a glimpse of a different, better world; also from "NKSC's
History": _" While [the future founder of NKSC] Kang Cheol Hwan lived in North
Korea he remembers being influenced by foreign South Korean radio broadcasts
which helped him decide to defect from the country after having lived 10 years
in the Yodok Political Prison Camp."_)

Also, I'm not from US.

~~~
hackuser
Three things off the top of my head:

1) Make sure as many people know about it as possible, which creates political
pressure on your government.

2) Make sure your government knows that it's a priority for you.

3) Contact Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch; they probably can tell
you much more about what you can do.

In my very humble opinion, I think the key is the Chinese public. If they
pressure their government, it may be a hassle the Communist dictators decide
that they don't need.

------
personjerry
This surprised me. To be honest, I've seen a lot of "information" (and
misinformation) about North Korea, and the media makes jokes about them to a
degree that it's been difficult for me to tell what's real and what's not.

I knew it was probably pretty bad, but I did not know exactly how bad. There's
no way they could all starve and have no internet, right? That seemed like one
of the exaggerations to me. But this article implies (and what develops will
likely prove) that there are in fact many serious human rights violations
going on in that country though, so this helps a lot.

Edit: I understand why this could be seen as ignorance, so I understand the
downvotes. However, I want to clarify that my comment is more about the impact
that the media has, at least on me, in actually reducing the perceived
"terribleness" of North Korea. Perhaps I am just too easily influenced and
uninformed.

~~~
DanBC
We've known for a long time that NK is fucking terrible. The evidence just
keeps piling up. Here's something from Oct 2013.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10413950/UN-
inquiry-chief-reduced-to-tears-by-North-Korea-brutality.html)

~~~
TallGuyShort
I agree they are terrible, but it's also still true that defectors have
admitted to lying, and not everything that's been said about them has been
true. It's good that he has data because that can be verified, and I think
we'd all agree verifying this, true or not, is what should be done.

~~~
hackuser
> it's also still true that defectors have admitted to lying

It's also true that every human lies, and people in every sphere of life have
admitted to it. As I posted elsewhere
([https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821740](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821740))
it's interesting that so many posts are trying to cast doubt on defectors, all
using the same arguments.

~~~
TallGuyShort
I'm sure you find it "interesting". I'm not casting doubt - I'm saying let's
not get carried away. Are you AGAINST seeing what data he actually has?

~~~
akavel
> Are you AGAINST seeing what data he actually has?

Wow, _now_ you're straight in the face advancing a pure and explicit strawman;
he didn't at any point say he's against seeing the data. Just - wow.

~~~
TallGuyShort
I'm not advancing a strawman - I'm straight _asking him a question_ , because
he's responded this way to multiple people who are just saying "let's wait and
see what the data says".

------
danieltillett
My biggest fear is that they have been working on germ warfare - something
like the smallpox the Soviet Union produced with a 90% kill rate that our
vaccines don't work on [1].

1\.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_smallpox_incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_smallpox_incident)

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Did you link to the right thing? That smallpox outbreak didn't have a 90% kill
rate and vaccination did work against it. All three of the deaths were amongst
the unvaccinated (with 7 others who were vaccinated surviving).

I'm sure the USSR and US did create super bio weapons during the cold war. The
claim isn't strange to me, the link is however.

~~~
danieltillett
This was the best result I could find for demonstrating what the soviet
smallpox weapons program was about. This outbreak showed that vaccination did
not provide protection and the strain caused a very high rate of haemorrhage.
When you have only 10 individuals infected you can't really estimate the large
scale death rate.

The death rate for the strain they developed was estimated from animal studies
- not even the soviets were bad enough to test this directly on humans.

------
mullen
I expect to see Unit 731 type of stuff but on a smaller scale.

There are really shocking things that go on in North Korea right now. Massive
prisons to hold political prisoners and their families, executions by all
kinds of devices, starvation of the population on a wholesale level and it
won't surprise me to find they are also doing human experiments.

------
killface
Damn... I predict that even with how awful we expect it to be, we'll still be
shocked by what is in there.

------
hackuser
It's surprising how many comments are casting doubt on the story and on the
stories of all NK defectors, and all using the same arguments. It's 3 of the
10 top level comments as of now.

EDIT: Rather than repeating myself, there's more in my post here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821740](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9821740)

~~~
WaxProlix
It's surprising how many comments are literally just from this one account
that you're using - 20% of the discussion by comment at the moment. Someone
has skin in this game, and my gut tells me it's not the people who are
advocating caution where lies have been seen before. They're not calling this
guy a liar, they're saying to wait and see before getting the old pitchfork
out.

------
mcs
chilling

------
curiously
Hopefully this will be enough motive for rest of the world to stop a real
modern day holocaust. There's no oil in North Korea but how's about lifting 30
million people out of hell?

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
How do you propose we do that? I am legitimately asking.

Right now NK has nuclear weapons with warheads capable of reaching at least
Japan and a Chinese ally which is meant to come to NK's aid if they get
attacked.

It could literally start world war 3 if we just attacked NK tomorrow without
getting the Chinese and Russians aboard.

I think a lot of Western countries would love to liberate NK, oil or not. But
the politics of the situation make that tricky to say the least.

~~~
curiously
I don't know why are you asking me?

------
GunlogAlm
Hopefully this will turn out to be true, and something detrimental to the NK
regime, and not one of the many false, ridiculous stories about North Korea
we've been hearing over the past few years -- everything from "he was fed to
dogs" to "prisoners shot with anti-aircraft missiles!".

~~~
brohee
What makes you think that the NK regime wouldn't feed someone to dogs?

~~~
gwern
Nothing, but the story in question was simply a hoax.

------
contingencies
"Defected to Finland" means walked in to the Beijing Embassy of Finland, I
guess.

I've been to the China/North Korea border for a few days, and it was scary.
But honestly, in the
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanji](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanji)
area just inside of China, I ate the best _bibbimbap_ I've ever had, and for
only 5元! "Immature fern fronds baby! Shakin' that ' _bap_..." Far better than
Seoul.

To riff on the same theme, IIRC early North Korean defectors complained about
South Korean food lacking buckwheat noodles. That has since been rectified.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern#Uses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fern#Uses)

