
LoRaWAN distance world record broken twice: 766km using 25mW power - htdvisser
https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/article/lorawan-distance-world-record
======
hlieberman
LoRa looks like a really cool technology, but I'm always a little bit hesitant
about advocating adopting a proprietary protocol, and LoRaWAN is very much
proprietary.

~~~
selvakn
LoRa is.. But LoRaWAN is an open standard, governed by LoRa Alliance.

~~~
dillonmckay
So, in the article, I saw the picture of a ‘base station’...where can I find
more info about the towers (locations, hardware)?

Does a single company own/control all the towers?

~~~
htdvisser
These base stations (we call them gateways) are owned and operated by
individuals, communities or companies. The gateways demodulate transmissions
and forward them to The Things Network's public community network.

There are currently over 8000 of these gateways worldwide (see also the map on
[https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/map](https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/map)).

~~~
amadeusw
What is the incentive for a hobbyist to set up and maintain a gateway, given
that the protocol is not open?

~~~
abricot
Most probably don't want to have a say in the protocol specifications, they
just want to use the protocol and spectrum.

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simcop2387
That's far enough to send email[1]. It's incredible the kind of distances that
they've been able to demonstrate with LoRa, even with the low data rates it
means that wireless sensors it monitoring can be done with small batteries and
solar charging almost indefinitely. Weather stations and farms are perfect for
this kind of thing.

[1]
[https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html](https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail.html)

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
As far as I can tell the only reason such an insane result was possible is
because the transmission was in clear air. Using LoRa in a city you'd be happy
to get 10 km.

~~~
htdvisser
Yes, transmissions that have line of sight can go extremely far, mostly
limited by the curvature of the Earth, which is why these records are
typically broken using helium balloons. There have also been several
interesting ground-to-ground records [1] [2]

The distances are of course much lower if there are obstacles (like concrete
buildings) between the transmitter and receiver.

[1]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adhWIo-7gr4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adhWIo-7gr4)
[2]: [https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/article/atmospheric-
duct](https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/article/atmospheric-duct)

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tectonic
There is a Kickstarter attempt to use LoRaWAN from a satellite.
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ambasat/ambasat-1-an-
ed...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ambasat/ambasat-1-an-educational-
space-satellite-kit)

~~~
Maxious
Inmarsat offer a commercial service [https://www.inmarsat.com/press-
release/inmarsat-actility-del...](https://www.inmarsat.com/press-
release/inmarsat-actility-deliver-worlds-first-global-lorawan-iot-network-
empowering-business-applications/) and Hiber have their own Hiberband protocol
but provide LoraWAN gateways you can use to uplink an area
[https://hiber.global/](https://hiber.global/)

------
geokon
Are there good alternatives in this space that don't have super expensive base
stations?

Could you use a general purpose sdr like an HackRF as a base station?

~~~
janjongboom
The cheapest 8-channel LoRaWAN gateways can be found for 69$
([https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/docs/gateways/thethingsindo...](https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/docs/gateways/thethingsindoor/)).
Prices have come down significantly. Outdoor gateways with IP67 rating can be
found for about 400$.

Alternatively two LoRa radios can just talk point-to-point between each other.

~~~
geokon
I thought the prices was licensing related

"Alternatively two LoRa radios can just talk point-to-point between each
other"

Is this a new development? Last I checked this wasn't possible.

Can I connect up little $6 dollar ESP LoRa modules to talk to each other?

The comments here suggest it's not possible: [https://www.cnx-
software.com/2017/10/13/this-ttgo-board-comb...](https://www.cnx-
software.com/2017/10/13/this-ttgo-board-combines-esp32-lora-radio-and-oled-
display-for-just-10/)

~~~
danaos
Connecting two Lora modules ad hoc has always been possible. The catch is you
won't be part of the LoraWan network.

~~~
zoobab
I would say boycott LoraWan.

You are only feeding Semtech, the Microsoft of Lora, which has the patents on
basic information encoding/decoding.

The only gateways you can have which listen on multiple channels are damn
expensive.

~~~
zaarn
Gateways are about 200$ fully assembled, it's not _that_ expensive. (Source: I
built a gateway with 8 channels)

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api
What frequencies are these using? Also what is the speed? I assume its low
frequency and pretty slow.

~~~
dbcurtis
LoRa can be as low a 4 bytes per second IIRC. Yes, bytes per second. I’m not
sure where it tops out. 10’s of byres per second maybe?

~~~
zaarn
250 bits/s with a maximum payload of 59 bits is the lowest limit on LoRa.

~~~
dbcurtis
Wow! Way faster than I remembered! It was a while back. I spent some time
trying to design a payload for a slow application with connectivity challenges
once upon a time.

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amadeusw
If you're also wondering what are the SF7, SF9, SF11 and unused SF12, I just
found [0]

[0] -
[https://docs.exploratory.engineering/lora/dr_sf](https://docs.exploratory.engineering/lora/dr_sf)

------
clktmr
How will this scale with lots of active transmitters? Are the doing some kind
of distributed SIMO?

~~~
squarefoot
It doesn't/didn't, unless they have relaxed some rules or opened more
frequencies for experimentation. Last time I checked LoRa guidelines required
each node to stay quiet most of the time for very good reasons, that is, one
could transmit only for a short time (iirc just a few minutes per day). More
than enough for remote sensors/alerts etc but hardly usable for any other
purpose beyond research. Still impressive results though! Let's hope its
success will push for opening of more bands so that traffic rules can be
relaxed a bit, but I'm not expecting free (as in unregulated) public
availability anytime soon: that would be a mess.

~~~
htdvisser
The Things Network's public community network indeed has guidelines to ensure
fair access for the entire community.

If you deploy a private LoRaWAN network with your own gateways and your own
servers, you only need to comply with the limits imposed by local regulators
for the (unlicensed) spectrum you're using. In Europe's 868MHz ISM band,
transmitters are limited by a 1% duty cycle. In the US's 915MHz band,
transmissions are limited to a 400ms dwell time. Other regions have similar
limits.

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OrgNet
Any open alternatives to LoRa? I would like to setup a network that would
cover a 20km radius even if it is only 1kb/s

~~~
ourlordcaffeine
I don't know how open it is, but there is Wi-Sun to try out. They have a
statement on open-ness: [https://www.wi-sun.org/wp-content/uploads/Wi-SUN-
Alliance-Po...](https://www.wi-sun.org/wp-content/uploads/Wi-SUN-Alliance-
Policy-on-Open-Source-Implementations-1V0.pdf).

Ti's long range 15.4 implementation is not open but is much cheaper than LoRa,
you just need two $20 Launchpad boards, one as a basestation and one as your
client.

You could also just use the LaunchPad's packet radio api to implement your own
simple protocol, you just need to remember to keep to the limitations imposed
by the authorities (duty cycle, wait time).

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hanoz
What sort of bit rate are they getting with this? And to what extent is it
directional?

~~~
Maxious
SF10BW125 and SF11BW125 so 980-440 bits per second

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kencausey
Note that 'm' in this title is 'miles'. Not a great idea to use this format
and abbreviations for alternate measurement systems.

~~~
na85
Yet another reason the metric system is superior.

~~~
ComputerGuru
I agree that metric is better but this is ridiculous. Miles should be
abbreviated mi.

~~~
quickthrower2
"This" being the HN submission. @moderators - can you #fix? The linked article
uses the word miles.

~~~
lightedman
Can the mods fix? They won't fix several other submissions which I've pointed
out were misleading, so...

Easy proof the mods aren't neutral by any means. Recorded and added to the
3.2GB file of shame they've got on them (and that's the smallest one. I've got
stuff from MicroSoft, RedHat, and Debian groups that would make the mods puke
trying to figure out how to word the headline without causing a civil war. Too
bad they'll never get it with their current behavior.)

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rhoads
And still my 4g and WiFi won't work that well

~~~
jws
You probably get more than 100 bits per second.

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jokowueu
Wow!!! Lorawans future is bright

