
Telegram to award grants to bot developers - amima
https://telegram.org/blog/botprize
======
mocko
Telegram user here. I'm not anti-bot but puh-lease, spend this money on
audited open-source crypto and secret-by-default chats rather than gimmicks
like 'stickers' (yuk) and rewards for promising bots.

I want a messaging app that's simple, secure, open and cross-device. Not one
that's splurging on daft bloatware features while the key issues go
unaddressed.

[edit] to clarify the term 'cross-device' \- I mean I want to see my
conversations on my phone, tablet and laptop and easily swap from one device
to another. Platform support is a separate, also-important issue that Telegram
already has nailed.

~~~
secfirstmd
So basically what you want is Signal then:

iOS [https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/signal-private-
messenger/id8...](https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/signal-private-
messenger/id874139669?mt=8)

Android
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thoughtcri...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.thoughtcrime.securesms)

[Blatant plug] If you want more info on managing digital/physical security
threats, check out an open source free app we just launched called Umbrella:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secfirst.u...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secfirst.umbrella)

~~~
mocko
I figured someone would say that. I want actual cross-device, not Signal's
weird "link your phone up to your MacBook" solution. So not Signal as it
presently stands.

Also (last time I checked; maybe it has improved) Signal's support for inline
media within conversations was light years behind Telegram.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud Signal's focus on security, but its usability
simply isn't there yet.

~~~
mkohlmyr
I can't reply to the post underneath yours but I very much agree with you and
for me the reason I don't want the "link your phone to your macbook" solution
is because my phone and it's number are very much not going to be permanent. I
do however have an email address I intend to use for a very long time.

I was actually looking for a chat solution earlier today and neither telegram
nor signal fit the bill for these very reasons.

I want telegrams nice-looking apps, with signals security. Could I use
WhatsApp? Maybe, but Facebook owning it makes me uncomfortable.

~~~
ahalam
Why aren't you using Wire ([https://www.wire.com](https://www.wire.com))? It
is cross platform, end to end secure w/ open source audited crypto, focuses on
app usability, and doesn't need a phone number to sign up.

~~~
mocko
Trust issues with the founders (Skype hardly had a great privacy record);
inability to build own APK (because _only_ the crypto is open source) means
you can't be sure the code on GitHub is what you're really running.

------
nagarjun
Underneath the original "wow factor", I think bots have a glaring UX problem.
Developers just haven't figured out the real use-case for bots. In some ways,
I think this current bot-craze is very similar to what happened with
smartwatches 2 years ago. Simply cramming a phone app into a watch doesn't
make it magically awesome or useful.

I think a lot of developers seem to be taking the same approach with bots.
They are trying to create alternative UIs for their already existing mobile
apps through bots. Mobile / web apps do a lot of the same stuff as bots in a
much more user-friendly way. Take a look at
[https://storebot.me/](https://storebot.me/) and tell me if there's one bot
that can do something better than a mobile app.

I'm not anti-bot but I just think the bot-frenzy is premature,

~~~
Shoot_The_Moon
I developed a game solely as a Telegram bot:
[https://storebot.me/bot/mrw_bot](https://storebot.me/bot/mrw_bot)

I think that this is a better platform than mobile as it supports multiple
devices, user accounts are already setup, it's easy to test and it has built
in notifications.

One thing I did have an issue with, is showcasing what it's features were. One
option is to create a lot of videos and screenshots which would take a lot of
time. As further improvements were made, I would have to reshoot the videos.

Instead, I created a React component to simulate interactions with a bot. The
React component is here: [http://sevenleaps.github.io/chat-
template/](http://sevenleaps.github.io/chat-template/)

The website for the bot is: [http://www.mrwgame.com/](http://www.mrwgame.com/)

~~~
nagarjun
Nice! Yeah I think it has potential for specific kinds of applications. Text-
based games are a definite yes. I couldn't agree more with your point about
user education. I know a lot of friends who don't even know all the amazing
things Google Now can do just because there is not interface to explain all
the features. Siri has a "what can you do?" feature but even then, it's very
limited. It will be interesting to see what developers and UX professionals do
to improve the state of bots.

------
LAMike
Wow all these comments are so negative. Do the smart thing, spend some hours
building a bot and put some money in the bank instead of complaining.

~~~
unicornporn
Yeah, don't question motives. Go be a good capitalist.

------
yagop
What about API library developers [1]? We haven't received anything yet but
thanks to us others can build bots. I invented the Telegram bots back in 2014
[2] (there wasn't API) and haven't received any thanks from Telegram.

[1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TelegramBots/comments/3bsec7/unoffi...](https://www.reddit.com/r/TelegramBots/comments/3bsec7/unofficial_collection_of_api_wrappers/)
[2] [https://github.com/yagop/telegram-bot](https://github.com/yagop/telegram-
bot)

------
Animats
Would Telegram let you develop a "bot" that supports connections to other
messaging systems? Or are they into the walled garden with spikes on top of
the wall thing?

------
CiPHPerCoder
If they have $1M to invest, why don't they focus on securing their protocol
(i.e. switching to authenticated encryption) and turning encryption on by
default?

See [http://cs.au.dk/~jakjak/master-
thesis.pdf](http://cs.au.dk/~jakjak/master-thesis.pdf) for more on why
Telegram isn't secure and you shouldn't trust it (as it is today) for anything
requiring privacy.

~~~
pdappollonio
I'm not up to date, but didn't Telegram had a bounty for someone who could
read a conversation even by knowing the phone numbers involved? If so, why the
writer here didn't got the bounty?

~~~
fabulist
I don't know specifically, but perhaps this commentary will be enlightening.

[https://moxie.org/blog/telegram-crypto-
challenge/](https://moxie.org/blog/telegram-crypto-challenge/)

[https://www.schneier.com/crypto-
gram/archives/1998/1215.html...](https://www.schneier.com/crypto-
gram/archives/1998/1215.html#contests)

------
kpcyrd
I've noticed bots seem to be quite popular for telegram. Is there any way to
provide the same to signal users?

~~~
Natanael_L
Sure. Modify the standard client and add a way for users to request to talk to
you.

------
educar
So telegram is a non-profit. And they splurge 1M USD? What am I missing?

Edit: to clarify, what I meant is that I expected non-profits to make good use
of their money and not give away large sums of money in prize competitions.
Certainly, no NGO or non-profit I know of does this. Raises a red flag for me.

~~~
hardwaresofton
non-profit does not necessarily mean the company does not make profit. AFAIK
it just requires that the profit made be spent on the company and/or cause
rather than used as dividends or given to what would normally have been
shareholders.

[http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/non-
profitorganization.a...](http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/non-
profitorganization.asp?o=40186&l=dir&qsrc=999&qo=investopediaSiteSearch)

~~~
jsprogrammer
If the "profit" is consumed by expenses, it is not profit.

~~~
hardwaresofton
Are you referring to where I wrote "profit made be spent on the company"?

If so, I'd like to point out that expenses are not the only way you can spend
on a company. Someone may also invest profit that they have made into
expansion, for example.

"profit" can never be consumed by expenses, by definition (as you have pointed
out). Profit can, however, be re-invested in a company, as opposed to being
taken by the owner or shareholders, or whatever.

~~~
jsprogrammer
An investment is an expenditure of money. What part of money set aside for
expansion will not go to an expense? Where does it go?

~~~
hardwaresofton
How I'm understanding is that these things happen at different times.

1\. Business operates for X days (1 quarter, 1 year, whatever)

2\. Business calculates it's profit (revenue - expenses)

3\. Business now has a choice on what to do with it's profit.

At t = 3, the profit is not an expense, though it will ultimately be used to
benefit the company/cause (if it's a nonprofit).

nonprofit organizations must decide what to do with profit, if they have
generated more revenue than they have expenses. The difference between a
nonprofit organization (from another org) is that the profit must go either
back into the company, or into the cause. Arguably, the money that goes back
into the company goes into the cause anyway, as it is in service of the cause.

Maybe it's just a matter of semantics, I could see it being incorrect to call
something "profit" that is never allowed to be spent on anything other than
the company/cause. However, the strict definition of profit is pretty bare-
bones, simply revenue - expenses, so I think it qualifies.

~~~
jsprogrammer
A nonprofit with profit is a contradiction. I get that some may perform
calculations with labels called profit, but that contradicts the underlying
thesis of the organization (as you've admitted).

~~~
hardwaresofton
"nonprofit" is a bit of a misnomer -- if you don't take my word for it, please
check other sources like investopedia or wikipedia

I pasted investopedia already so here is wikipedia:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization)

Note "surplus revenues", and if you click that, wiki says they're basically
the same as "profit" (because... surplus revenue is profit...)

~~~
jsprogrammer
A non-profit would probably need to pre-allocate revenue.

------
ommunist
@watchbot is a useful bot for monitoring uptime, but I am afraid that it also
probably gives FSB my uptime information, and I do not have control over that.

------
tuyguntn
So many negative comments, would like to see what happens if exact same title
would be with Facebook, considering their scale lets say 'Facebook: $10Mln to
Bot Developers. For free.'.

Do not forget, they may have some issues with security or user growth, but
founder generally tries to promote his own product, everyone will behave like
he does (promote in product in any legal way), when they have enough
resources.

------
johnieeboy
So you have to make the bot first and then be awarded the grant?

~~~
dsp1234
I wonder if they are calling it a grant for tax planning purposes.

~~~
johnieeboy
I thought the wording was a little bit strange. You could be right. What would
be the implications for me as a developer to receive a grant?

~~~
rubidium
It depends on if it's you or your company.

For academics, when you get a fellowship or grant that must be recorded on the
1099-misc in the united states. And you pay full taxes as an independent
contractor.

I am not a lawyer nor am I an accountant. This is not legal or tax advice :)

------
deskamess
The "We like it when bots also work in >inline mode<" link is missing the p in
https.

------
dreamdu5t
Why not allow charging for bots and stickers? It stifles bot innovation as
there are many great bots that have real costs that must be sustained somehow.
Same with stickers. Great artists have _zero_ incentive to make sticker packs
since they can't charge for them and anyone can give them away to other users.

Developers and artists should be treated like stakeholders rather than cannon-
fodder and free labor.

~~~
ommunist
Yup, charging can be a game changer.

------
collyw
Can someone explain to me what bots are for. It looks like using something
similar to a REST API over Telegram. Whats the point / use / advantage of
that?

~~~
smcquaid
Bots offer a gateway between human language and API actions. The future (which
VC's are very excited about) is one where the human language commands evolve
into something non-syntax specific.

~~~
vram22
> something non-syntax specific.

What do you mean by "non-syntax specific"?

\- loose syntax, as in human language, which we can parse although it is loose
(e.g. I went to the shop, I went to shop, I went to de shop - all are
parseable by humans to get the same meaning [1])

OR

\- something else?

[1] except that "I went to shop" could also mean "I went shopping" \- but
ignore that for now, it's just not a good an example.

------
chrisco255
When is the deadline? I couldn't find that on the site.

~~~
fweespee_ch
End of the year [Dec 31] is the last round of grants.

> We‘ll be giving out the prizes in several batches throughout 2016, so the
> final deadline is December, 31.

------
johnieeboy
Does anybody know what sort of bots they are looking for?

------
Shoot_The_Moon
Does anybody know if games created using the Telegram Bot API are included for
this grant?

I created a GIF sharing game bot with a few friends and we are going to apply
and it'd be great to get this!

We'd love some feedback - [http://mrwgame.com/](http://mrwgame.com/)

