

Do you know why rms didn't start with a kernel? - access_denied

Does anyone here knows, why Richard Stallman choose the order for developing the several GNU programs he did?  Why didn't he start with the kernel?  Also, why the name GNU?  Shouldn't be the kernel the only part of GNU named GNU?  After all, all the other programs could be Unix.
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aagnihot
Interesting (and critical) article by Dr. Nikolai Bezroukov.

[http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/failure_with_hur...](http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/failure_with_hurd.shtml)

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access_denied
Thank you for the informative link!

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gaius
Don't confuse unix (which doesn't really mean anything, it's just a general
set of philosophies of how an operating system should be structured) with
Unix(tm) which is a wholly owned trademark and a set of technical standards to
which a unix must conform if it is to be a Unix(tm). Linux for example is not
a Unix(tm) (OSX is).

The simple answer is that the hardware available at the time wasn't up to
getting a useful level of performance out of the HURD microkernel architecture
and so he gave up. HURD still isn't any closer to being a production kernel.

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access_denied
Do you can point me out to some reference re "and so he gave up"? Thanks!

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markup
UNIX is a proprietary operating system (not a kernel) and GNU aims to be quite
the opposite, hence that acronym (GNU is Not UNIX). As for the decision to
leave the kernel at last, well just give a look at how long is it taking for
HURD to be completed... also I am guessing he _needed_ other stuff to be
created first (compiler, etc)

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access_denied
What is the difference between an operating system and a kernel? (HaHa) Well,
if you can point me out to some ressource regarding my questions about RMS'
decisions, that would be cool. Regarding the GNU name, as far as I am informed
RMS wanted to point out that the GNU is a UNIX-like OS as opposed to a non-
UNIX like VMS. He decided to go with a unix because it had proven itself to be
portable (unlike ITS for example).

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markup
A kernel is part of the operating system, but the operating system is not
composed by the kernel only. Take Mac _OS_ X: it is an operating system, its
kernel is XNU. Linux _itself_ is a kernel, not an operating system, etc.

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cchooper
To look at the question the other way around: is there any reason he should
have started with the kernel?

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access_denied
The name GNU suggests this.

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cchooper
How?

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access_denied
The name refers to the kernel/OS part of the project. Like if I would call my
project DIND (DIND is not DOS). Not TINT (TINT is not TurboPascal). If
somebody says to me: let's make a free | punk | whatever operating system, I
would think of a kernel and maybe a shell or windowing environment. Not of a
compiler, an editor or some 35 utilities. (I realize the UNIX distribution
contained more than the OS).

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cchooper
As other people have said, Unix was the name of an operating system, not a
kernel, and the name has always referred to more than just a kernel and a
shell.

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hapless
\- GCC was a necessary prerequisite to starting in on a kernel. What good
would a free OS have been if it wasn't self-hosting on free software?

\- Emacs was a politically important project because there had been a serious
free-software kerfuffle among emacs-like editors. The most popular such editor
for unix, Gosling emacs, had recently gone from open source to closed source
without warning.

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lgriffith
Stallman objected to the fact that software could be sold so he made software
that couldn't be sold. I am sure he understood its true value and priced it
accordingly.

Create and deliver value. Demand to be paid for it according to its value to
the customer. If the customer refuses to pay, find another customer.

Free is as successful as poverty.

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chris_l
You can deliver value without being paid for it. For example by raising a
child.

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lgriffith
Who is the customer? You or the child or both?

Perhaps you are paid for the value you deliver. If not, why did you do it?
However, it is a payment that cannot be transformed by exchanging it for other
things you need or want. Its primary benefit resides within you and your
child.

Money is not the only form of payment but it is an extremely important form.
This is because of its use as a medium of exchange in a division of labor
economy. The existence of both supports and sustains a far higher standard of
living than could otherwise exist.

Stillman's philosophy is to reduce the production of intellectual values to
the state of a barter economy. That kind of economy rises only slightly above
subsistence. This is why I say "Free is as successful as poverty."

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chris_l
Just because you don't "extract" any value, to use the MBA term, does not mean
you did not deliver it.

