
Ask HN: Do you help beggars? - xoail
I am not sure if this question is relevant to HN but I am looking for some rational answers and I do not know where else I could find smart rational people to ask this.<p>These days I see quite a lot of people begging for some petty cash. Subways, streets, public places and joints. Almost all of them have a touching story to tell. Most of the time I do find it convincing and would like to help with a dollar or two but lately it&#x27;s getting out of control. I feel this has become more or less a business model to keep begging in areas where there are people. I see people on the street with cardboard signs, people doing tiny skits to impress&#x2F;entertain, people trying to raise money for other poor people. This morning on the way to work, I encountered 3 different beggars in 20 minutes.  While I would like to help with my allocated budget, I am afraid I might be hurting the system. System, where people are volunteering to help these and many other poor who do not beg and are out of sight.
I find myself in emotional dilemma where I would like to help but also do not want to harm a system. What do you do in cases like these?
======
kw71
I got some insight from a beggar in Moscow who I met outside a food stall who
complained of hunger. I told him to order what he wanted. He refused and
wanted cash instead.

Not all are like this. I started offering to buy food and some seem grateful
and accept, others become belligerent.

You can make a lot of money in a day standing at a busy traffic signal getting
dollars from people, more than you can make working for minimum wage for a
day.

So I mostly quit giving cash, except in cases where I have been travelling and
the person I've met provided a useful service or local knowledge to me as a
tourist/foreigner.

~~~
bjourne
By offering to buy food instead of giving cash, you are saying that you are
not trusting that his pleas for money is sincere. You are calling him a liar
and implying that he would be buying alcohol or drugs instead of food for the
money. So having to accept the aid from you would feel very degrading and I
wouldn't either if I was a hungry beggar. I think even if you are a beggar you
deserve some dignity.

~~~
kleer001
> who complained of hunger

You're off base there, mate. Or maybe you've just never been actually
physically starving.

If all he wanted was money, he should have said so. By refusing to accept what
he was asking for he was proving to be less than trustworthy.

~~~
bjourne
I don't think it was stipulated that this beggar was starving. Have you been a
beggar and have you had people offer to buy food instead of giving cash? Not
saying you are wrong, but I don't understand why you say that my explanation
is off base.

------
kleer001
Begging, homelessness, destructive addiction, are systemic problems. Even the
best charity is only trying to relieve the symptom.

We have in our power to completely end this kind of unnecessary suffering. No
one ever need go hungry. But we don't live in that kind of world ecause the
people in power are more concerned with popularity contests and money than
human happiness, comfort, or dignity.

If you want to help go volunteer at a soup kitchen or get into politics.

I don't give them money or food. For the same reason I don't try to move the
sea to the mountains.

------
ohmyiv
To some degree, "begging" has become a business model of finding the easiest
way to make money. However, there are many who truly need the help. It's up to
you to decide who receives your help. Yep, YOU decide who gets your donations.
It's hard, but make sure the help you give goes to those who actually need it.

As to the "system", if your definition of the system is people volunteering to
help people in need, then your choice to donate is a choice to be part of that
system. It's not hurting it, it's part of it. You are volunteering to give,
not forced.

Side note: I don't consider people doing something as entertainment "begging".
It's an attempt to exchange time for money. I find it similar to going to a
theatre. Of course I won't pay the same prices, but it's entertainment
nonetheless. I feel busking is work, where they put in energy and time hoping
to receive compensation, just like most people who have "regular" jobs.

------
sandstrom
It's a difficult question, I've thought quite a bit about it.

Begging has increased massively in my city over the past few years (common in
most of northern Europe)[1][2].

Some thoughts on this (totally understand if people disagree, it's a difficult
topic):

\- These people are obviously poor and miserable. Feeling sorry for them is a
natural and human thing.

\- But, if everyone were begging all humans would starve to death. It's not
scalable.

\- There are ~1 billion people on less than $1 a day (even with PPP adjustment
that's probably less than most beggars make).

\- Begging is sort of a 'squeaky wheel gets the grease' allocation method.
It's likely that there is someone else that would need the money more.

\- It feels like a bad thing to incentivize.

\- These people have harsh lives, and often they've started with unfavorable
odds. But I think it's more useful to focus aid/effort on structural issues,
like fighting corruption, improving world trade, good institutions, education,
etc (in both developed and developing countries).

\- Human civilization as it stands today is a product of long, hard struggle.
Most people have lived grim lives.

\- Mostly an anecdote, but I watched a movie called 'Last Train Home'[3],
about a Chinese family that works 12+ hours a day, 51 weeks per year. They saw
their kids 1 week per year. That's quite the struggle. I'd guess most people
watching the movie would feel that these parents lived a harder life than many
people begging in rich western cities.

I'm not arguing these are in any way optimal (or even good choices), but
things I've donated to are Transparency International, Amnesty and Wikipedia.

[1] [http://www.newsweek.com/half-swedes-want-ban-
begging-319327](http://www.newsweek.com/half-swedes-want-ban-begging-319327)

[2] [http://www.newsweek.com/influx-roma-norway-leads-begging-
ban...](http://www.newsweek.com/influx-roma-norway-leads-begging-ban-
bill-304727)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Train_Home_(film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Train_Home_\(film\))

------
webnrrd2k
As far as giving to the homeless, etc... I generally give a dollar to anyone
who asks. I figure they can't get into too much trouble with one dollar, and
it's still giving something to help another person in need. I still go by my
gut feeling sometimes, and don't give to everyone, though. Also, I put a
"daily max limit" on my giving, too. I can only give so much in a day. Mostly
I try to use it as a chance to talk to the person, and find out a little bit
about them.

I think most of the people begging have mental health issues, and it can be
very hard to tell at a glance who is sick or not, so I try to give without
worrying about who the money goes to too much.

Also, I try to see it as a chance for me to be grateful for what I have and to
share a little bit.

------
drum
I'll typically help with food. Rarely cash these days. It's just too hard to
tell where the money really goes. (Unless the donations are through an
organization)

Short anecdote - A friend met a homeless man on Haight St who in exchange for
a burrito showed him some of his wild world. The man ended up taking him to an
abandoned warehouse covered with mattresses and needles. The man opened up a
bit and told my friend that when he asks for money, he doesn't care so much if
people don't give it to him. But what gets to him after a while is how most
people won't even acknowledge his existence when he asks. He said he
understood if people said no, but he appreciated at least being told no or
even simply looked at.

~~~
jeffwass
I choose to make donations to charitable foundations instead of cash to street
panhandlers.

But when someone asks me for money on the street, I almost always respond to
them by saying "Sorry" or similar. I've always felt it rude to just walk by
ignoring their presence. And probably over 95% of the time the person answers
back something like "ok, have a great weekend" or "Thanks anyway".

That said, I think many people that walk past without making eye contact do so
not because they think the person begging is inferior, but likely because
they're hiding in their own shame.

I've seen similar behavior on crowded subways, where able-bodied people avert
eye contact with the pregnant lady or senior citizen who is standing, wanting
both to keep their seat but hoping someone else gives up their own seat.

~~~
yllow
Even donation to charitable foundations is dubious to me. I have no idea
where/what they are going to use the money, even though they promise on
certain contribution. In personal opinion, instead of providing financial
aids, i would say providing working opportunity is better for their future, as
they will be more skillful and independent.

~~~
mod
Many charitable organizations are rated (by % of dollar donated that makes it
to the actual cause) by independent organizations.

At least for bigger outfits, it's easy to find out how your money is spent.

------
zaccus
If by "helping" you mean giving money to people directly on the street,
absolutely not. I can't afford to give a dollar to everyone, so on what basis
do I decide on whom to bestow my generosity? There is no fair way for me to do
it, on the street, by myself. So I'm not playing that game.

We need more low income housing, more unskilled work (or a basic income), more
care for the mentally ill, more public restrooms, food pantries, and safe
places to go. We need to help people who are on the brink of homelessness stay
off the streets.

What we don't need is more panhandling. It's a public nuisance that mainly
benefits charlatans, and draws resources and good will away from those who
need it the most.

------
cafard
Generally not. Most local organizations (Washington, DC) that help the
homeless advise against handing out cash to panhandlers. I do contribute once
a year to a hunger fund that pays for a dinner program.

~~~
RogerL
I lived in DC for many years, and that was the consistent advice. OTOH, in the
City Paper (local independent weekly) there would occasionally be interesting
stories about how, for example, you could not get toothpaste from the shelters
(maybe it was something else, it's been awhile, but some similar toiletry
item). You need toothpaste to maintain yourself, and so there is a lot of
seemingly "minor" needs falling through the cracks.

It is undeniable that most of the homelessness is due to mental illness and/or
drugs, and if you give to panhandlers you are perpetuating the problem. But
living in DC you are also in the street a lot (hanging out in Dupont circle or
whatever), and you get to know the homeless in your area. It's just really
hard to feel good about any decision you make, and it is hard to say no to
someone you've had conversations with. OTOH, you also see them absolutely
incoherent on a bench and know this is not going to end up well. Then they
disappear.... it's hard. So many still haunt my mind.

------
vigile_
I'm not sure that there is a good and balanced answers to your question. Here-
after my personal algorithm. #1. Giving every time is not an option. My money
will not be enough to save the world and I will feel upset before! #2.
Throwing people away systematically doesn't feet with my very human nature. In
conclusion, sometime I give. There is no good or bad people/moment. Most of
the time I don't. I live with the idea that I'm not the best man in the world.
Trying not the be the worst... I'm not sure if it helps...

------
aaronchall
When I was 8 or so, I saw a homeless guy lying on a bench in New Orleans, and
I had a five dollar bill in my pocket, and even though five dollars was very
hard for me to come by, I gave it to him. I felt very good about myself, at
the time.

In retrospect, I probably would have put that five dollars to better use.

People live like that because they _can_ live like that. If you give them
cash, you're enabling their lifestyle.

I fed homeless people from a portable soup kitchen a couple of weeks ago. If
you want to genuinely help people who genuinely need it, give them directions
to a soup kitchen and social workers who know how to deal with them.

But the chances are that they already know where they can get real help, and
they'd rather stand around earning $20 or more an hour asking people for cash.
[http://www.quora.com/Homelessness/How-much-money-do-
beggars-...](http://www.quora.com/Homelessness/How-much-money-do-beggars-
panhandlers-make-an-hour)

------
inspireNomad
I won the ovarian lottery, I am white in a first world country and was lucky
enough to have the foresight to learn how to program. I can't imagine how
terrible it would be to be on the street every day. I usually offer to
purchase food, this is usually all I can offer because I don't carry cash on
me.

------
halleym
No. I don't consider small amounts of money to be the solution to an
individual's homelessness problem.

I feel strongly that giving money to someone who is deliberately spending
their day begging is actually harmful to that person -- since any success
prolongs their time begging. I guess I am assuming that the end goal is to not
be begging.

A friend of mine once explained that his philosophy is that "it's not up to
him to choose what they do with the money." So, he is very open to giving
change to people who are begging.

I contemplated this for several months, and decided that it doesn't change my
feelings. It took a lot of thought.

Do/Would I help beggars? Yes, but not by giving them my pocket change.

------
mikeboydbrowne
When I can, I buy them some juice or food but in most cases I say that I don't
have anything to give them. The worst thing you can do to a homeless person is
ignore them. It makes them feel invisible and unwanted - think of how you feel
whenever you're ignored. Now imagine that rejection of comes after you ask for
things as simple and essential as nourishment or shelter. If you don't have
anything to offer, a simple "I'm sorry sir/miss" should do. It acknowledges
their presence and their humanity and in doing that you've done more than
most.

------
fsk
When you give money to a beggar, you're saying that you want more panhandlers.
That's how markets work.

The beggars have some organization, so that 100+ people don't swarm all the
best spots.

------
theaccordance
I've dealt with many different types of beggars on a regular basis during the
5+ years that I've been living in Chicago. While my pockets aren't deep, I do
try to be charitable when possible. I only give to those who I see on a
regular basis, who come off as humble, non-harassing, and don't display
obvious signs of substance abuse. Charity will range from spare change, to
extra cash, even food if I'm out grabbing some when I run into them.

------
gregors
Don't do it. If you feel guilty please donate through a local shelter. That
way all the people you don't see asking for money (children) can actually be
helped.

------
SamReidHughes
I would tell myself that there are more optimal ways to give money to charity.
Then I realized that doesn't work unless you actually do that, so I did that.
Now I happily stare down panhandlers while giving them nothing. (The caveat's
that now that I'm living off of savings, I think the most optimal charity is
_me_. For some reason reading about timeless decision theory didn't help with
this.)

------
lscore720
Good question. I actually just shared a blog post the other day on this
topic/my recent experience: [http://www.thebradlazarus.com/a-good-friday-for-
giving/](http://www.thebradlazarus.com/a-good-friday-for-giving/)

------
spacemanmatt
A few times a week, cash only. I try to be friendly for the moment of
interaction. I figure they have enough people treating them like beggars
already.

------
DanBC
I give cash to people selling "The Big Issue".

------
gesman
>> I am afraid I might be hurting the system

Seriously?

Just buy one guy's smile for a dollar and move on. No harm to the system is
done.

------
Varkiil
In my country the only acceptable beggar would be a 18 years old who lost his
both parents who were in debt, all of them having only the nationality of my
country. I saw one guy in this situation... hell of a situation. Every other
beggar are just lazy parasites who prefer to live thanks to charity than work.

~~~
allendoerfer
There are safety nets in our society, especially in Europe. Put people are no
machines. Those, who fall through these nets often have problems that hinder
them to get on their feet on their own (drugs, mental illnesses etc.). People
have the tendency to ignore overwhelming problems. After some time you arrange
with your situation and just live your life.

I won the inheritance lottery, but still find it very hard to be disciplined
and stay motivated. I think I would have no chance to get back on my feet,
once being homeless, addicted to drugs or something like that.

~~~
Varkiil
As I said, in my country you have social plans and associations helping every
kind of person, helping them so much that the beggar down the street actually
has a better salary than me for being a beggar, that an immigrant with his 4
kids not working wins 4 times my salary and so on. The only kind of person for
which there are no plan, to my knowledge, is the one I described before.

------
MichaelCrawford
You could help by not calling them "beggars".

If you are concerned that money would be used for something that you object
to, buy them something to eat, or maybe some warm clothing. It is quite common
for homeless people to wear shoes whose soles are falling off.

If you don't want to give money at all, or have none to spare, then stop to
introduce yourself, ask their name then offer to shake their hands.

My shaking that hand which society deems as unworthy of being shaken, you may
very well have saved a human life.

~~~
Someone1234
> You could help by not calling them "beggars".

They're literally someone begging:

Begging:

ask for something, typically food or money, as charity or a gift

What would you have people call them?

