
I fit the description… - subdane
http://artandeverythingafter.com/i-fit-the-description/
======
delinka
I understand the reason for fear in the current law enforcement climate in the
US. But this quote really misses something:

"...they didn’t believe that I wasn’t a criminal. They had to find out. My
word was not enough for them. My ID was not enough for them."

Well ... no. If you are indeed close to the given description of a criminal
complaint, they're going to check. The have to check. If they'd come across
the actual criminal and he'd behaved similarly (and lying by producing
plausible ID, acceptable home address, etc) and then let the actual criminal
go, that'd be terrible.

Now, the situation could indeed have been improved by the cops: the 'suspect'
made no threatening moves, NO need to reach for a gun; simply act like a
reasonable human being having a conversation; call for another officer with
the same (similar?) ethnicity...

~~~
flexie
Here's the thing: the guy is stopped because he's black, average size and
wears a knitted hat during the winter. It's like being stopped because you are
white, average size and wear a baseball cap.

Would that ever happen? Very rarely. Would the officer stopping a white guy
who fitted a 1/5 description grab for his gun? Of course not.

~~~
kazinator
A robbery had just taken place (presumably nearby), and the perpetrator had
been described to the police as black.

There is a time and place factor here together with a description; they are
not randomly stopping someone in a random location at a random time just for
looking black.

~~~
nogridbag
I realize the police have to do their job somehow. But if the subject was a
white male, 160 lbs, with a winter hat on and I happened to be near the scene
of the crime, I can't imagine the police ever bringing me in for questioning
even though I'd fit the description as well. They'd take one look at me, see
I'm a nerdy white guy with a good-old American name, ask me if I'd seen
anything, and then let me go.

------
golergka
WTF?

Can someone point me to what exactly did police officers do wrong in this
story?

> Barbara Sullivan made a knit cap for me. She knitted it in pinks and browns
> and blues and oranges and lime green. No one has a hat like this.

Yeah, dude — I'm looking at your photo right now and it definitely looks like
a generic knit cap. It's completely reasonable that when someone hears a
detail "knit cap" and then sees you, it clicks.

> If you are wondering why people don’t go with the police, I hope this
> explains it for you.

No. It doesn't, at all. Nothing in behaviour of this police officers even
hinted of a wrong attitude. The "white woman" wouldn't "decide" if you're a
criminal or not: she would give testimony. This attitude of "resisting arrest"
would seem paranoid on it's own; it seems even more paranoid and insane in
context of this story.

By the way, did any officer actually tell him that a victim was white? Or is
it just what he automatically thought?

If I would go through something like that, I would be glad that police is
doing it's job.

~~~
pmikesell
It wasn't about this one interaction, it's about the relationship that police
have with black people, and vice-versa.

If you are white, your expectation is that in this situation the cops would
have taken you to the victim, she would have said it wasn't you, and you'd go
on with your day.

This man's expectation, as a black man being questioned by the police, was
that he has a 50/50 chance of being falsely accused; that the woman who was
going to give this testimony might just see "black man" and say "that's him
officer". In the article, this college professor was so sure of that that he
was going to _resist arrest_!.

It's not about this one interaction, it's about the culture of fear we have in
this country between cops and black people. You're not supposed to figure out
these particular cops did wrong in this particular encounter - you're supposed
to empathize and understand what's generally happening for/to people in
different circumstances than yourself, and hopefully have an impact on
changing that over time.

~~~
logfromblammo
My expectation is that if police transport a suspect anywhere, that is an
arrest which must be justified by reasonable suspicion that the suspect had
committed a crime.

Now, I don't know how Boston classifies "try to break into a woman's house",
but it looks like my web search in the General Laws of Massachusetts brings up
part IV, Title I, Chapter 266, Section 18.[0] Maybe IV I 265 18C [1] if there
was someone inside the house.

Based on it being daytime, and the quoted statement from the cop including the
words "try to break into" rather than "inside", it would appear that no crime
actually occurred. So the cops circulated a vague description of an average-
height, average-weight, typically-dressed Bostonian male as a suspect for a
nonexistent crime.

The Internet Tough Guys aside, the author did make a mistake in answering
police questions. It should have gone something like this:

    
    
      Cop: Hey my man.
      SL: Yes?
      Cop: Where are you coming from?
      SL: Am I free to go?
      Cop: No.
      SL: Am I under arrest?
      Cop: Not yet.
      SL: Why am I being detained?
      Cop: We had someone matching your description just try to break into a woman’s house.
      SL: [remains silent]
      Cop: You fit the description: Black male, knit hat, puffy coat.  Do you have identification?
      SL: My name is Steve Locke.  I live at XXXXX, in Dedham.
      Cop: No, no, no, do you have a photo ID card?
      SL: I do not consent to searches or seizures.  I will not answer further questions without the assistance of legal counsel.
    

At this point, he gets arrested, not for breaking and entering, but for
"contempt of cop"\--probably even "failure to identify". He beats the rap, but
does not beat the ride. He later sues the city, and eventually accepts a
$75000 settlement, which isn't bad for enduring one _very_ stressful day and
some PTSD.

The bystanders made a mistake in not whipping out their cameras to film the
incident.

But that ideal conversation does not happen when you are dropped into a
stressful situation with no notice. While you're thinking about burritos, an
armed man confronts you and informs you that you are a suspect in a crime.
Instead of thinking about how to resist police corruption, you're thinking
about not getting killed in the next ten minutes. It doesn't matter if you
know, rationally, that you have the right to not get murdered by cops, if you
also know in your fluttering intestines that Eric Garner and Freddy Grey
theoretically had the same right.

[0]
[https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Cha...](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter266/Section18)

[1]
[https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Cha...](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter265/Section18C)

~~~
golergka
> The Internet Tough Guys aside

> Am I free to go?

> Am I under arrest?

> Why am I being detained?

> I do not consent to searches or seizures. I will not answer further
> questions without the assistance of legal counsel.

I hate to break it to you, but that's a classic example of "Internet Tough
Guy".

~~~
logfromblammo
Did you read to the end of the post? No one can actually follow the ITG
script.

 _Maybe_ if you're a professional lawyer. Everyone else will screw it up
somewhere. Following it closely requires an attitude regarding cops somewhere
between "Officer Friendly is only here to help" and "these pigs might kill
me". That zone on the spectrum for "these guys are cleverly trying to
hamstring my lawyer before the trial" is razor thin.

Those on one side will cooperate because they earnestly believe that the
innocent do not get punished. Those on the other will cooperate because they
believe that resistance is futile in the face of overwhelming force without
any form of restraint. The ITG stance is pretty much exclusively held by
people who will probably never have the opportunity to try it out on real
cops.

Everybody out there in the real world formulates their strategy based on their
prior experiences with real cops, rather than activist videos.

------
mwill
I see some comments here along the lines of 'this is standard, nothing to do
with race'

Even if that is true (And I don't know that it is), doesn't it speak to some
greater cultural problem that this man was so scared for his life, being a
black man questioned by police?

It's all well and good to say "I've had this happen to me, no problems", but
thats dismissing the fact that this man, and many others, fear for their life
whenever they interact with the police.

(I should note that I am not American, so maybe theres things I'm missing as
an outsider looking in / maybe I'm way off base)

~~~
golergka
It's a problem that he's so scared, yes. But this particular incidents paints
his fear as baseless paranoia.

~~~
beat
This reminds me of something I pointed out elsewhere... I don't know _any_
black people who have never had a negative, frightening interaction with
police. And I have a lot of black friends, from teenagers up to men in their
60s. I've had friends arrested, had guns pointed at them, on ridiculous things
(one that stands out was a friend who got arrested and roughed up for doing
his laundry in his dorm).

"Baseless paranoia"? Ask any black person you know if they think this is
baseless paranoia.

~~~
golergka
I don't know any people of any race who have never had a negative, frightening
interaction with police.

This still doesn't make his reaction justified.

~~~
esrauch
> I don't know any people of any race who have never had a negative,
> frightening interaction with police.

Eh, I can only speak anecdotally but almost all white people (who aren't
active drug dealers) that I know haven't actually had bad experiences, modulo
"the TSA at the airport patted me down!".

The single time that I've had any sort of negative interaction was when
crossing the Canadian border and it was directly because my friend in the car
had brown skin.

------
justifier

        I saw the woman in red.
        “Thank you,” I said to her.  “Thank you for staying.”
    
    

if you see the police talking to someone: whoever they are, however they are
acting, and whatever they look like; and you have a minute to spare, please..
please, stick around and make it known you are watching

if you have a phone, record it, or just hold your phone as if you were
recording it

people can feel the gaze of others and you will alter the behaviour of the
officers for the better

just yesterday i was walking by an irate homeless person yelling at three
officers, refusing to move

two officers were directing foot traffic to keep a distance and the third was
prodding the homeless man with his toe asking him identifying questions and
telling him he needed to get up and move

by my just standing there i could sense the officers sensing my presence,
every so often they were send me a quick sideways glance

the officer using his foot to interact with the homeless man turned his head
to see what his fellow officers kept looking at and saw me, standing there
drinking a coffee, staring at him

he jerked his gaze back at the man lying on the ground and knelt down and just
placed his hand on the homeless man's shoulder and talked to him calmly

the officer managed to get the man to sit up and answer his questions,
eventually he got up and walked away and the officers gave me a look like,
'you happy?!' and got in their cars and drove off

i was happy with how the interaction turned out, the whole thing lasted less
than a minute

i would like to think that my presence had little to do with it

------
rjeli
How should the officers have handled this?

More to the point, is this protesting the inappropriate way he was detained,
or the atmosphere of fear for black Americans?

~~~
facepalm
What comes to my mind: if they receive an valid ID, they could just note down
the address and let the person go. They could expect to be able to get hold of
them if the suspicions become more substantiated.

~~~
delinka
But then, if it IS the actual criminal, he's aware that the police are onto
him and he's gone. If I knew for certain that A) I'd committed a crime and B)
the police were indeed looking for me, I wouldn't be at my home address. Nor
any other address they might be aware of my presence.

~~~
facepalm
So you would give up your home in exchange for the proceeds from a small
burglary?

I would just expect some Bayesian reasoning, and "has a home at a reasonably
expensive address" and "has a car" and "has MIT ID" would presumably rank
quite highly as factors? Unless "is black" ranks so high that it dwarfs all
other factors.

~~~
delinka
How are we defining "home" here? Does the typical small-time burglar own a
house? Does he care about skipping out on a lease? Does he even HAVE a lease
or is has he been sleeping on the couches of 'friends?' If I'm committing a
small burglary, I doubt I'm very attached to my current address.

Back to this story: you have to check out whomever matches the description and
is nearby. The only thing that the police needed to do in this situation was
to not make it a situation. Reaching for that gun was The Wrong Thing To Do
because this guy was cooperating.

~~~
facepalm
"If I'm committing a small burglary, I doubt I'm very attached to my current
address."

That is exactly what I am saying. If he has a solid address, it is unlikely
that he is a small time burglar.

Not sure how IDs work in the US. In Germany you have to register with the
police when you move and you are supposed to carry your ID at all times. Of
course there is no guarantee that people keep their ID up to date. Then again,
I suppose if mail to the old address would be failing it could be marked in
the computer, easy to check for the police.

~~~
delinka
Now suppose they're looking at a really good forgery and they don't yet know
that.

~~~
facepalm
They don't know that you aren't a serial killer either. Should they surround
your house, just in case?

I think you need to multiply P(is a criminal) with <severity of the crime>. If
they suspect somebody of being a serial killer, more scrutiny seems
appropriate than if they suspect a small time burglar.

~~~
delinka
Do I match the description of a serial killer? If I do, then perhaps a visit
to my house is warranted. And if I'm a serial killer, and, depending on the
method of killing, perhaps they have to believe that I'm armed to the teeth.
Coming to pick me up could be dangerous for them. Now, their measured response
involves an unannounced SWAT.

I don't see "Serial Killer" levels of scrutiny in this story. I see the right
amount of scrutiny, but with a precursor of a cop getting his gun hand ready
in a situation that doesn't call for it.

~~~
facepalm
Yeah I mean why should they assume he has a forged ID? How common are forged
IDs for small time criminals?

------
kornish
I'm getting a 503 Service Unavailable, so here's a mirror:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20151205162353/http://artandever...](https://web.archive.org/web/20151205162353/http://artandeverythingafter.com/i-fit-
the-description/)

~~~
plug
Thanks, looks like it's back up now. Google didn't appear to have a cached
copy; it kept giving me a 503.

~~~
paulpauper
A top link on HN must send an enormous amount of traffic...has anyone ran a
study as to how many hits it generates? I'm guessing a couple hundred thousand
if it stays on the front page for a day.

~~~
dangrossman
Your estimate's an order of magnitude too high in my experience. More like
10-30,000 visits if you stay on the front page most of the day. Many
submissions don't stay highly ranked that long either.

------
roneesh
I really feel for the person in this story. Given the heightened media lately,
it's hard to feel totally secure in any interaction with the police. I don't
feel completely secure talking to them or interacting with them when I see
them.

I however, do think the police did just an ok job handling this situation. It
clearly could have gone worse, but they could have de-escalated this even
further. Why isn't it possible to simply say clear statements like "We intend
to respect your rights." or "We have no intention of escalating this
situation". When it comes to the officer seeming to reach for his firearm at
the beginning what's wrong with saying "That's something we do for our
protection, and is not an intent to use?"

I'm sure people in law enforcement have answers for all these questions, and
I'm sure they make sense. However, something in me will probably always wonder
why we as a society find it easier to blog about police encounters, or make
police wear body cameras, when it might just be easier for two people to talk
more openly.

------
hunterjrj
I have no political axe to grind, no agenda to push and no particular opinion
one way or another. I simply have a question: Is it important to his
recounting of the story to emphasize that a "white woman" carried his fate?
Would the story have the same impact if he simply said "victim"?

[Edit: grammar]

~~~
qopp
The cops wouldn't have revealed the witness's race. The author likely didn't
actually know who actually gave the cops the description that matched his.

------
awalton
The saddest part is that this is not a unique story.

Some number of weeks ago, I "fit the description" of a latino male exiting
Safeway after having caused some kind of spat in Mountain View. They
"identified" the male as having on black shorts and wearing sandals, and some
kind of sleeve tattoo if my memory serves.

I am a fairer-skinned black male, I did have on black shorts and Birkinstocks,
so close enough I guess. I was over a block away from Safeway, but the cop
still felt the need to creep up on me, then bleep his siren, turn around, get
out of his SUV and question me.

The cop felt the need to know if - simple Silicon Valley yuppie me, carrying a
Starbucks cup from earlier in the day and a fresh bag of Thai food with a
receipt dated no more than nine minutes prior - I had gang tattoos and/or
affiliations, asked me to roll up my sleeves. He needed to know why my out-of-
state drivers license didn't have my current California address (no, I'm dead
serious, I guess he couldn't figure it out.)

Of course, I grew up in the deep south so I'm more than used to this, and know
how to keep my head on when dealing with a police officer who is holier than
thou and is packing the hardware to prove it to you at a twitch's notice. My
upbringing taught me that, as a black person, this is what we have to expect
from officials, be it police, school officials, any petty tyrant's office job.
This is why you don't talk to the cops and you keep your head down when
walking - your skin still says enough about you.

However, even after climbing the broken ladder, fighting my way out of abject
poverty through stacks of student loans, it was truly disheartening to see
it's still true, even here in the land of million dollar homes and self
driving cars.

I've felt this man's fear.

~~~
DrScump
"He needed to know why my out-of-state drivers license didn't have my current
California address"

Actually, that's the law, if you've been in CA more than 20 days or accepted a
job here. Otherwise, you are technically not licensed to drive here.

------
fiatmoney
I guess the problem is that when he identified himself as a college professor,
the cops didn't immediately genuflect?

"I was hoping that someone I knew would walk down the street or come out of
one of the shops or get off the 39 bus or come out of JP Licks and say to
these cops, “That’s Steve Locke. What the FUCK are you detaining him for?”"

IOW, "do you know who I am?"

There are legitimate abuses of police authority and unaccountability, and this
is not one.

~~~
maldusiecle
I dunno, it doesn't seem like a huge leap to stop investigating someone as a
burglar once you notice they're a college prof. Especially if you've stopped
them for nothing more specific than wearing a knit hat and "puffy coat," and
they're not wearing a puffy coat (did you not look at the picture? or read the
article, for that matter, he mentions that he was wearing a blazer).

~~~
DrScump

      did you not look at the picture?
    

That's a bio pic, not surveillance.

He writes _in his own words_ that he was wearing a _quilted_ blazer.

------
dswalter
That is a heart-wrenching encounter. I admire the author's cool head under
pressure and emotional honesty and awareness.

------
eggbrain
About a year ago, the same thing happened to me. That night, my girlfriend had
suddenly gotten sick and was walking home from a friends place a few miles
away, and I wanted to make sure she got home ok, so I ran out to meet her.

I was dressed in a long wool jacket with a nice shirt on, and got stop by the
police. Apparently, it was suspicious that someone would be jogging in that
type of attire, and there had been a hit-and-run a bit away from there, and I
fit the description of the person that ran.

It was a bit surreal -- an officer started immediately asking me questions,
including identification, what was in my pockets, etc. After telling him just
a glove was in my jacket pocket, he came up to me and quickly felt himself.
Satisfied that I had answered honestly, he asked me to wait as a second police
car drove up.

The first officer looked back to the second police car and asked if this was
the guy -- the second police officer took one look at me, looked back at the
guy angrily, and shook his head slowly no in one of the largest looks of
contempt I had seen. After that, I was back on my way.

This story brings me back to that moment, but to be honest I have not thought
about it since, and now I wonder if I should have done something differently.
Should I have resisted? Should I have proclaimed my rights and had them try to
arrest me? Was I too meek in allowing them to frisk me briefly? Was there some
sort of prejudicial motivation for what happened? Was I wrong to simply forget
that moment afterwards, and not attribute to malice?

I have no doubt police target people, due to prejudice of some kind, in many
different cities. And I also do not want to in any way dismiss or diminish
someone's fear, someones worries, or someone's feeling like they were targeted
directly because of their race or ethnicity, their gender, or their beliefs.

But is there a lesson to be learned from this story? Is it a story of a man
who felt enormous fear when approached by the police, and how that still
reflects the worry many minorities feel in society with regards to the police?
Is it a story about how a man was targeted unfairly due to his race, due to
prejudice still present in law enforcement? I'm not sure the takeaway from
this -- only that a man was stopped on the street, and that he felt pain from
that experience. Do I share this pain having gone through something similar?
Do I rewrite my own experience and feel pain? Or do I continue as I have --
not attributing to malice until proven otherwise? It's not clear, and I'm not
sure how to take this and use it for the better.

------
hartator
Source down. Other source:
[http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/33894-i-fit-t...](http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/33894-i-fit-
the-description)

------
mbarrett
I found myself in a similar situation, sharing the same name, not profiling. I
was asked to come in to 'help with a case'. It was really an interrogation of
my involvement. I had the same feeling of uncertainty and the thought I could
do nothing to argue my case, based on the continued, escalating questions.

It was assumed that I needed to prove my innocence rather than they prove my
guilt. Luckily I happened to be across the country on that day so it was
easily dropped. I was denied to see the police report after multiple requests,
which I thought I was entitled to.

This one experience greatly changed the way I view police and their tactics. I
can empathize

~~~
jdmichal
> It was assumed that I needed to prove my innocence rather than they prove my
> guilt.

This was not a trial. How do you propose to eliminate suspects, if convincing
yourself that they are innocent is not permitted?

------
howeyc
It seems to me that the cops did everything right here, aside from perhaps
drawing a gun (which it seems he may not have, only undoing a snap perhaps?)
too early. They can't just take his word for it, they need to verify the eye-
witness ID. This should be obvious.

His paranoia is a likely a result of his previous encounters with other police
officers and hearsay from other encounters. This particular encounter sounds
right.

They thanked him repeatedly for cooperation, apologized for messing with his
lunch break, etc. This is their job, what could they do better? Not
investigate since he said "it's not me, honest"?!?

------
sp332
_If you are wondering why people don’t go with the police, I hope this
explains it for you._

Nope, I still don't get it. Thanks for the perspective though.

~~~
Practicality
I think the author was aware of his standing in the community and was
considering purposely becoming a martyr. While I disagree with his decision
(like you do), based on his perception it may have felt like the best thing
(for the planet, not for himself) to do in his circumstance.

------
aklemm
To be interrogated or detained (the pre-arrest stuff) is not benign. It is
full of risk because police are sanctioned to use force on citizens. It is
especially risky for non-whites, especially if they try to exercise their
rights. This story is about what it's like to experience these phenomena in
real life. Did I make that easy enough for you all that are struggling to see
the value in this piece?

------
facepalm
Not to take away from his experience, but being surrounded by cops is always
scary. I was never under suspicion for anything serious, but got stopped for
running traffic lights or cycling on the wrong way of the street. That was not
that scary (no guns), but it is always clear that you are completely at the
mercy of the cops. Sometimes stories like this seem to escalate when people
talk back. Don't talk back to cops! That is my mantra anyway. Don't argue,
don't try to use logic. Just apologize meekly and try to be as nice and
compliant as possible.

A (white) friend of mine used to wear the wrong kind of jacket, associated
with left youth, and the cops would also sometimes search him, and even do
anal probing for hidden pot. (All this is for Germany, mind you).

Also the stories about calling SWAT teams to innocent people's houses, or the
unreliability of forensics, are really scary. I think "unfairly detained or
killed by cops" has to be accepted as another modern risk, like being run over
by a car or getting cancer. And unfortunately the risk is probably higher for
people with dark skin.

------
paulpauper
His mistake was answering the officer's initial questions. You are under no
obligation to talk to the police if questioned. If the officer has sufficient
reason to believe you're guilty (such as witnessing a crime), he will simply
arrest you on the spot and talking won't do any good.

Second, I see a subtle racial angle to this, and as a white person I too have
been stopped by the police several times. White police are not singling out
black people.

getting barraged by dovecotes but will not remove the post because I think it
is still helpful, or at least encourage discussion about the matter

~~~
discardorama
> but his mistake was answering the officer's initial questions.

You know, a lot of Internet Tough Guys(tm) make this claim. Only those who
_have_ been stopped by cops randomly (I have, and I'm not white) will
understand that this is nearly impossible. You are intimidated. You know that
you have basically no rights; they'll just charge you with "obstruction of
justice" or "disobeying a lawful order" and throw you into the justice( * )
system, where you'll end up wasting countless hours and dollars before "all
charges are dropped". A white person, on the other hand, has a strong feeling
of "I have rights". Most non-whites don't.

( * ) for some definition of "justice"

~~~
cookiecaper
A lot of Internet Tough Guys don't understand that if you're respectful and
kind to the police, they'll more often than not go on their way without any
type of escalation. Making their life difficult by refusing to talk to them at
all or show any basic respect might work OK a few times, but really you're
just going to cause problems. A better response than just repeating "Am I
being detained?" is to filter your words carefully against some basic legal
knowledge. Not necessarily foolproof, but most likely a better outcome than
acting like a dick, as long as you're reasonably intelligent.

~~~
logfromblammo
One day, in the first week of March, perhaps the 2nd or 3rd, I had driven my
kids to school in the morning. While on the way out, I observed a cop issuing
some sort of traffic citation to another parent on their way in. This was
causing a major delay for hundreds of cars, due to this guy blocking the only
way in and out with two stationary vehicles, one being the typical suburban
full-time-parent kid-chauffeuring battle-tank SUV.

I may have allowed an annoyed look to appear on my face.

Seconds later, this same guy was pulling _me_ over. The reason? My vehicle
stickers expire February 28th. I renewed online late in the month (the
shortest month, naturally), and the replacement stickers had not yet arrived
in the mail. Fortunately for me, I had the printed receipt of my renewal
transaction on the front passenger seat of my car. (The stickers arrived in
the mail later that day.)

While walking away, the guy tells me, "Next time don't wait until the last
minute to renew." ~Dude. I'm sorry that my timely production of exculpatory
evidence precluded you from ratcheting one tick closer to your ticket quota.~
If you're going to be overzealous in enforcing the revenue laws, I don't need
to hear any complaints about me paying the full amount and on time.

Next time, and all subsequent times, I will try the "not making your job
easier" approach. You can't treat people like moustache-twirling villains half
the time, and soulless cash machines the other half, and still expect them to
respect you. I _know_ he had an in-car computer that showed him my current
registration and insurance status. He probably pulled me over because I gave
him a dirty look for screwing up car line, and he wanted to be an extra-big
dick about it.

The policing for profit has to stop. Whether its from dubious municipal court
fines and fees or War on Drugs grants, the distorted flow of money is
rewriting the relationship between police and public. The public is
simultaneously employer to and customer of the police. That means that the cop
has the burden of being professional and respectful at all times, even in the
face of horrendous rudeness.

When a waiter or delivery driver gets stiffed on a tip, they suck it up, maybe
post a pic to social media, and move on. When a cop gets frowned at, they
swagger up, solicit some respeck for their authoritah, and maybe hurt someone
while the cameras are inexplicably turned off. It should not matter whether or
not the public gives or withholds respect. Those cops are on the clock and
serving customers. If those customers are curt with front-line employees,
perhaps it is because the company as a whole has been behaving as badly as
AT&T or Comcast.

Just as you may get better results being calm and polite with your customer
service rep while on the phone with those companies, you still might get a
freakin' Ernestine, not caring about you, because the company is a [local]
monopoly and it doesn't have to. In that case, you're better off sticking to
your own script and recording everything.

~~~
cookiecaper
>In that case, you're better off sticking to your own script and recording
everything.

I'm not really sure how you came to this conclusion. You are correct about
many things here, but the solution is not to become defiant; that will only
result in, at a minimum, more hassle for you, like the officer writing an
invalid citation anyway because he can, thus forcing you to either pay or
waste an afternoon at traffic court to try to get it thrown out.

~~~
logfromblammo
Some people are naturally more stubborn than others. I probably came to that
conclusion due to my exceptionally mule-headed ancestry.

As a result, when I perceive that someone is working against my own interests,
I will do anything within the bounds of my own ethics to trip them up, even to
my own detriment. I _want_ to waste lots of nights and weekends mailing
documents in to traffic court, to try to get that revenue-generating municipal
summons turned into a money-losing jury trial, with plenty of motions and
discovery and appeals.

"Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just
man is also a prison." \--H.D. Thoreau

Under a government which funds itself by forcing citizens to pay more in order
to be hassled less, choosing to accept the inconvenience might be considered
an altruistic act....[0] But in my case, it would be purely for spite. From
Hell's heart, I stab at thee, Captain Kirk.

If you want to let those bastards get away with their scam just because you
can't stand to have a little manure tossed at you, go right ahead. I hope you
enjoy smelling nice and not having any parts of your face broken when you go
out with your fancy respectable folk.

The cops say "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." Well, Cave
Johnson says, "I'm going to burn life's house down, with the lemons!" (He says
what we're all thinking.) If you want to take me on a ride, don't forget that
you'll have to drive the whole way. If you're intentionally inconveniencing
me, as as informal punishment, remember this: "I learned long ago, never to
wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." \--G.B.
Shaw.

[0] Poe's Law note: this is the inflection point between mostly-sincere and
mostly-insincere. Determining which is which is left as an exercise for the
reader.

~~~
cookiecaper
This works fine with most non-police, but please realize that police have
license to kill. Even if your shooting is unjustified, the bias is going to
favor the police officer, and there are many things in the justice system that
work in their favor, not the least of which being that many of their
colleagues, associates, and friends will be responsible for their prosecution.

If a normal person shot you, they'd be arrested that night. For police, if
they're ever arrested, it will probably many months later, after someone in
the organization has decided that they don't like the officer involved in the
shooting anyway--err, I mean, after Internal Affairs completes the
investigation.

~~~
logfromblammo
If you really believe that police--paid employees of the state--can murder
people with impunity, why haven't you joined the rebellion yet? How many more
straws would it take to break your back? Do you _really_ want to live in a
country where you believe you can be capriciously and arbitrarily murdered by
the government without consequence?

