
Dyson 360 Eye - jmiseikis
http://www.dyson360eye.com/
======
tonylemesmer
I worked on this product back in 2002-2005. I developed the initial wheel
system for this and early prototypes of their digital (switched reluctance)
motor once we realised we'd need a very high power density compressor motor.
Sadly the battery technology has taken a long time to get to the point where
it can now give a useable run time, even when the vacuum only consumes 100W
(typical cabled vacuums use 1.7-2kw). Also the prices of other components,
high power embedded CPUs, cameras and sensors have reduced dramatically since
then. It uses an intelligent algorithm to maximise the potential of the
runtime, meaning that it tries to elminiate running over the same patch of
floor more than once. This is what it uses the 360 camera for and SLAM image
processing and maths that I still don't fully understand :) The chap with grey
hair switching it off at the end of the teaser video[1] is the brains behind
all the navigation and image processing software, Mike Aldred, very clever
guy.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ReNFlxqJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ReNFlxqJc)

~~~
wlievens
Do you know which image sensors it uses?

~~~
tonylemesmer
Back then (9 years ago mind!) it was a Sony sensor probably long obsolete now.
1024x1024 res which is shockingly low res but easily good enough for SLAM
feature mapping.

~~~
IshKebab
It's still a Sony one. No idea which.

------
cpr
Others have commented similarly, but I just have to say that we've tried
various Dysons over the years, and they always start off brilliantly. E.g., we
vacuumed a nominally clean bedroom with a new Dyson upright and it was like
steam-cleaning, or better, since it was dry--we pulled out a whole container's
worth of dirt.

But then after 6 mo to a year, they start to fall apart, with (their many
internal) joints not sealing, vacuum power dropping, motors failing
eventually, etc., etc.

I don't think Dyson engineers understand nor design for long term durability.

We've switched to Miele vacuums and couldn't be happier.

~~~
Andrenid
I've had my Dyson upright for probably nearly a decade now (or at least 7-8
years that I can account for at minimum). It started off as a vacuum for a
retail store I owned, and was used every single day for about an hour solid,
for about 4 years, until I sold my stores... and has since been my home vacuum
being used weekly. I've never had it break down, or any parts fall off, and it
still works better than any other vacuum I've tried.

Maybe I just got lucky, not sure, but I've been very happy with mine.

~~~
teach
I have no doubt the Dysons made a decade ago were excellent vacuums. In my
experience the ones made the past few years are very much not worthy of the
good name.

~~~
larrys
Although I've had good luck with HP Printers mysef (still own several 4250's
higher speed and do plenty of output with high quality) sounds like similar
comments I've read about recent HP products.

~~~
nnnnni
I've found that this kind is very common; a company will build a good
reputation on high-quality products and then slowly lower the quality to make
more profit.

It's a bad deal for consumers.

~~~
MichaelGG
It's almost to the point where there should be trademark laws that start to
enforce a type of product to protect consumers. Like when Pyrex changed the
composition and started breaking. I know it's not feasible to so cleanly draw
such lines - for instance, I'd prefer if Lenovo wasn't allowed to use ThinkPad
on their current line of items.

------
veidr
I always thought Dyson was crap, based solely on their obnoxious ads and
garish design. Then I bought my wife their cordless upright vacuum for her
birthday (I know, I know, but she _asked_ for it).

I was astonished when the vacuum became my favorite piece of tech in the whole
house.

We have a roomba that works fine, but it's extremely hard to imagine that I
won't buy this thing immediately.

~~~
deanclatworthy
There was a recent reddit AMA by a vacuum repair guy, talking about the best
brands:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd)

He was not impressed with dysons:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_rep...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_repair_technician_and_i_cant_believe/cd1e9x0)

I have to say in my experience, having had 2 dysons - they both broke within 2
years.

~~~
noir_lord
Had a DC07 for ~13 years never had to touch it beyond rinsing the filters
once.

Of course the plural of anecdote is not data.

~~~
bithush
I had the same experience. Can't remember the exact model number but it was a
normal upright model. That thing was amazing. Shame the wife got it in the
divorce :( (heh)

The only things that broke were simple to replace (and pretty cheap to be
fair) parts like the hose which split because I over stretch it one too many
times. Can't really fault it for that though.

I have had wood floors everywhere now so make do with a dirt cheap hoover but
if I had carpets I would buy another Dyson without question. It did such a
fantastic job and maintenance was as easy could be.

------
xexers
So, it drives around your home with WiFi internet access and a 360 degree
video camera. Privacy concerns?

~~~
rglover
"I'm just sweeping the floors, bro. Don't mind me."

------
teddyh
> _Available for free on IOS and Android platforms, the Dyson Link app allows
> you to control and schedule how and when your Dyson 360 Eye™ robot vacuum
> cleans. It enables you to view maps of cleaning progress, even when you 're
> not at home. It activates your 2 year guarantee, automatically downloads
> software updates and, should you ever need them, provides access to
> troubleshooting guides._

So… A device that’s remotely controllable (and updateable) from Dyson’s
central server. With a built-in 360° camera.

~~~
stronglikedan
* Always-on internet connection required

I kid, but it does say "The Dyson Link app may not be available in all
markets.", so I'm assuming that it will not _require_ an internet connection
to function properly.

------
robert_tweed
I really want to know how this compares with the LG Roboking. Inevitably, all
the comparisons (especially those in Dyson's own marketing) will be with
Roomba, which has terrible AI, terrible suction, terrible range and hasn't
significantly changed since the first version released in 2002.

Back in 2002, the "insect" AI was actually quite innovative, and necessary for
the computing power available at the time, but it's not 2002 anymore.

The latest Robokings are much closer to the Dyson in terms of AI (possibly
better as details on the Dyson are still a bit vague). For example, it will
map out a route through multiple rooms. If it needs to recharge, it will
return to its base station and pick up where it left off. Unlike the Roomba,
it does not use a random pattern so it will generally achieve about 97%
coverage, compared to about 75% coverage for Roomba. It will also do it in
roughly half the time.

The Dyson will likely have better suction, but presumably it still won't be
good enough to completely replace a standard vacuum, so that may not matter at
all. I think the things that matter most in a robot vacuum are:

\- Can it clean multiple rooms efficiently, recharge itself when necessary and
pick up where it left off after emptying its dust compartment?

\- How quickly can it do that?

\- How much noise does it make when it's running?

\- Will it avoid getting trapped on rugs, curtains, under couches, etc?

Ideally, it should empty its own dust compartment too. As far as I know,
Karcher make the only robovac that does this and I'm not sure how it stacks up
in other areas. Plus it is really, really expensive.

------
silver1
WOW !!! these videos explains all ...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguKCHP7jNQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oguKCHP7jNQ)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadhuICDAjk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OadhuICDAjk)

~~~
lsaferite
WOW, that thing is tiny!

I have a hard time imagining how it can vacuum a whole house.

------
omgtehlion
Automatic localization is bad.

This is why:
[https://yadi.sk/i/W5YUMQq6b2aXi](https://yadi.sk/i/W5YUMQq6b2aXi)

~~~
poglet
Is there a way to change the page to English? Unfortunately it's not as simple
as changing the URL.

Edit: Clicking the globe icon then changing country. Mine was stuck in
Japanese.

------
chiph
I bet they didn't consider the scenario of a cat riding their vacuum, when
they located the vision sensor on the top.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2HU3LGdbo)

------
Hansi
Bit off topic which I know isn't viewed well here but down vote if my comment
angers you profoundly.

My sister recently finished a MSc in Robotics and is looking for work in the
UK for Dyson or a similar company. If anyone has worked in Dyson or a similar
company (established or startup) and would be willing to discuss her options
for applying in the industry and provide some guidance could you please e-mail
me at hans@hans.is?

------
sjs382
It looks _tall_. So tall that it might not fit under my couch or under the
first-level of some tables. Anyone know the dimensions of this?

~~~
jonnydark
Haven't got a ruler to hand but it's about 4-5 inches. It's not very wide
compared to others, hence why it looks tall.

~~~
sjs382
My Roomba is (according to the specs online) 3.6" tall.

I'm trying to imagine the Roomba height in relation to the couch and tables...
Another inch or 2 might be a deal breaker for me.

------
delsarto
"17,000 rpm with digital pulse technology" ... I guess that means a PWM DC
motor controller?

~~~
githulhu
"Digital motor" raised my eyebrow too. Apparently it's this:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor)

Guess marketing didn't think "Reluctance motor" had quite the same ring, and
I'd tend to agree.

~~~
jonah
Linked from that page is this article which goes into the design and
development of the motor a bit:
[http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/dyson-
vac...](http://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/design/power/dyson-
vacuums-104000rpm-brushless-dc-technology-2009-06/)

------
radicaledward
This is the first scroll to navigate page I've encountered that worked for me
at all. I can see from the comments that others are not having as much luck.
This new trend seems to be a horrible waste of time (for both devs and end
users). I hope it goes away soon. The page is kind of cool if it works though.

As for Dysons, my parents are on their second one. The first one still mostly
works, but a small clip in the back broke off. It will no longer stand up on
its own. I have a small hand held one and it is really quite nice. They are
definitely a bit fragile, but when they work they really work well.

------
bglazer
Lots of negativity in the comments.

A couple questions:

1\. For the robotics people, is the "360° eye" camera an innovation, or is
this already a standard component of robotic vision?

2\. What's the next step for robotics in the house after vacuums?

~~~
adventured
Any task that humans really hate to do, but like or need to have done.

In one giant category: cleaning. That includes dusting, cleaning walls and
ceilings, cleaning showers and tubs and toilets, cleaning windows.

Cooking food. Starting initially from simple things, evolving to more
elaborate combinations. Chef3000 can now cook over 500 things! Self-cleaning!

Mowing the grass. Some companies are already deep into trying to solve this of
course.

A total laundry system (this is decades away from being practical, and may
require the classic sci-fi robot that does everything). Give the system the
clothing, it sorts and understands fabrics and colors, or can be trained to
identify specific clothing, washes it, dries it, folds it.

~~~
prawn
Cleaning bathrooms is horrible. I don't know why we haven't built bathrooms
that can be sealed, towels/art put in a cupboard, and then a button pushed to
pressure spray the interior and blow dry it. Waterproofed components, lighting
and cabinetry wouldn't be impossible.

We pay a cleaner mostly because the bathroom is little joy to clean.

~~~
gwern
> I don't know why we haven't built bathrooms that can be sealed, towels/art
> put in a cupboard, and then a button pushed to pressure spray the interior
> and blow dry it.

I recall that Buckminster Fuller tried to build that sort of bathroom: the
idea was that it'd be basically a one-piece metal thing with no seams or
cracks for mold/dirt and all rounded corners, so one could just spray it down.
I guess it didn't work for the same reason a lot of his ideas never got picked
up.

~~~
prawn
There are self-cleaning public toilets in many places these days.

I think it would be possible if the right suppliers set their minds to it. I
guess it requires the spraying and drying technology and that won't exist
until the bathroom hardware itself exists, and that won't change until the
spraying/drying is an option.

------
blueintegral
Catadioptric omnidirectional vision is a really cool technique. I've always
wondered why it isn't seen in the wild more often. I first saw this technique
being used in Robocup Midsize League [1]. There's lots of good papers on doing
localization and object detection with a distributed system of robots with
omnidirectional cameras from that league.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acrS0kPY-J8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acrS0kPY-J8)

------
chillingeffect
If you're interested in the LIDAR in a similar autonomous vacuum, this great
presentation by an engineer is a must-watch/listen:

[https://cmusv.adobeconnect.com/_a829716469/p17388090/?launch...](https://cmusv.adobeconnect.com/_a829716469/p17388090/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal)

He gives examples of what the LIDAR sees, how the algorithms work, etc. in
very clear yet technical knowledge.

~~~
dominotw
Neato vacuuming robots uses LIDAR for navigation.

------
melling
So, the HN comments are pretty much negative. People seem to be overlooking
the most important thing. A hugely successful product in this category will be
the spark that launches the home robotics revolution. More players, more money
invested, etc.

I'm really not sure why robots aren't already vacuuming our floors, raking the
leaves and mowing our lawns by now.

~~~
veidr
Well, I think this already happened. About half the families I know have a
Roomba robot vacuum or a knockoff.

But it's a big step from vacuuming floors to mowing lawns with sharp blades.

I don't personally have a leaf problem, but I would very much like to see a
clever window-washing robot. Could be -- would preferably be! -- very slow and
small. Something that runs constantly and could go home and charge/clean
itself.

A sibling bot could clean bathtubs and sinks (and I would love to see toilets
added to that list, but that may be a bridge too far).

I think robot vacuums are pretty established, but fall short of constituting a
'revolution'.

~~~
arrrg
Why don’t people know about mowing robots?

My parents had one for about a year now. They use it to mow their huge garden.
It has worked extremely well throughout this summer.

It got stuck maybe three or four times at the start of summer, when they were
playing around with the boundaries to make sure it gets to as many places as
possible and doesn’t push itself outside the boundaries because of some tight
spot. It seems those problems are solved now. Maintenance is checking the
blades every couple of weeks (and exchanging broken or dull ones once or twice
a year) and brushing it off a bit.

These mowing robots have been around for decades now. You basically lay a
cable (on the surface or slightly underground) all around your garden and big,
permanent obstacles and set up a charging station.

Depending on the size of your garden the mower drives around several hours a
day, several days a week. During this it is practically completely quiet.
Whatever it cuts off it just leaves on the grass. Since it is permanently
cutting that’s not an issue at all and not even noticeable.

It basically drives around randomly, but maybe has features like focusing on a
certain area when it encounters especially thick grass somewhere. (I think
newer ones have GPS, too, but this hasn’t really been necessary at all in my
parent’s case.)

The mower will automatically shut down when it bumps into something (and it
will try to find another way around it) and it will also stop when lifted up.

My parent’s robot always found back to its charging station on its own this
summer, except those couple times it got stuck when they were still
experimenting with boundaries. And that’s despite my parents having a quite
complicated and large garden.

The result is a lawn that looks better than ever before (basically always like
it was just mowed) and extremely even. Also, my parents can now focus on the
gardening they actually enjoy (and they aren’t the youngest anymore, which is
not ideal if you have to mow a huge garden manually).

I don’t think I would want this robot driving around with a toddler on the
lawn, but that’s about it.

This problem is solved and robots do an excellent job.

(Here is the brand of robot my parents use:
[http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-
mowers/husqvarn...](http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/robotic-
mowers/husqvarna-robotic-mowers-for-homeowners/) There are many others.)

~~~
veidr
Looks great. I don't know why I didn't know about these yet (well, most likely
because I live in an apartment with no lawn), but thanks to you and patrickk
in this thread I do. (His video link is very informative, btw).

A robo-mower would have indeed made a better housewarming gift for my sister
than the cordless Dyson I bought her (same as mine)... although it would have
set me back $2,300 instead of $300.

Still, very cool.

OK floors and lawns, ✓ DONE! Next somebody please point me to the already-
existing window-washing robot.

~~~
alexnking
WINBOT [http://www.amazon.com/WINBOT-W730-Cleaning-Frameless-
Windows...](http://www.amazon.com/WINBOT-W730-Cleaning-Frameless-
Windows/dp/B00CJUTOQU)

------
richbradshaw
Is pricing available yet? I've been thinking about a robot vacuum since I
moved into a new house with all hard floors.

~~~
uptown
According to the DailyMail, it will cost around £750, or around $1230.

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2743185/Dyson...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2743185/Dyson-
launches-world-s-smart-robot-vacuum-live-cameras-map-house-puts-away.html)

~~~
nodata
£750 is normally around $750

~~~
endersshadow
It's really not:
[https://www.google.com/finance?q=GBPUSD](https://www.google.com/finance?q=GBPUSD)

~~~
gamegoblin
OP was probably referring to the fact that things sold in the UK are generally
more expensive than the US. Something sold in the US for $100 might be £100 in
the UK, even though the conversion rate would have you think it should be £60.

------
mmuro
Good luck getting underneath furniture or cabinet overhangs!

~~~
ctdonath
I'm more concerned about stairs.

~~~
masklinn
Basic roombas handle stairs and overhangs, you just need a very basic IR
rangefinder on the circumference, if a finder or two "loses ground" there's
probably a hole, treat as a wall.

------
bichiliad
"This unique 360° vision system uses complex mathematics, probability theory,
geometry and trigonometry to map and navigate a room. So it knows where it is,
where it’s been and where it’s yet to clean."

I hate the "Oh, why don't we use slightly complex words to make the consumers
feel impressed" marketing practice. Like when shampoo ads use phrases like
"advanced [made-up-word] technology."

Edit: That was a bit grumpier than it should have been. I haven't had coffee
yet.

~~~
krisoft
I have heard multiple people to complain that Roombas are just wandering
around randomly. It's worth to note that none of these complainers had a
Roomba at home, so the issue might only be a perceived one. But nevertheless
in marketing these things count, and who knows? Maybe Dyson tried it and found
the sensored version superior in engineering terms too.

So on one hand you have people complaining about 'random movements', and you
have an automated vac which doesn't do that. How do you communicate this? The
feature is clearly important enough for them to put it in the name. It's not
called Dyson TankTrack or Dyson DoubleBristle, it's called Dyson 360 Eye.

So they could say: "doesn't move randomly" but that's probably not true, and
doesn't sound any good. Quite likely it falls back to random wandering to re-
locate from a kidnaped-robot situation. Besides negative statements ought to
be avoided because they focus the costumer on what you don't have, instead of
what you have. (at least so it goes the marketing wisdom)

They could also just say: "does SLAM (Simultaneous Localization and Mapping)"
would be accurate, and would be totally cryptic for anyone who is not in the
know.

Of course I haven't tested the robot, but if it does what they imply, then the
consumer shouldn't feel impressed because of the complex words. They should
feel impressed because this is impressive. Does it vacuum better? Who knows,
we will see.

~~~
masklinn
> I have heard multiple people to complain that Roombas are just wandering
> around randomly.

The roombas do, as far as I know, mostly wander randomly. Not only (they'll
also follow walls and stuff), but they most definitely don't map a room plan
which they methodically go through, they don't have the sensors to.

There are other vacuums with room mapping (samsung's navibot), I'm not aware
that they do better than roombas in the long run (although they probably pass
over each spot at least once per session, which roombas don't necessarily do)

------
maguirre
For the web inclined guys here. What techniques are used to show
motion/animation? looks quite smooth/impressive

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
As a web developer and web user I completely refuse to tell you, otherwise I
worry you might copy this horrendous site design elsewhere.

This is a site anti-pattern (at least at desktop resolution). The site is only
readable when I shrink the browser down until that terrible animated nonsense
goes away.

------
bahmutov
Can they put panorama camera on the bottom so it can actually look under the
couch to see dirt?

------
joss82
How can something so high vacuum properly under the furniture?

Is that an obvious flaw, or am i mistaken?

------
cdnsteve
I expect this is a the top of HN because people are interested in hacking
their Dyson robot and write some custom Anroid/iOS apps to control it?
Otherwise, it's a vacuum, or is this some type of sponsored Sears post I don't
know about?

------
allegory
Unreliable, expensive parts, poor design and now they're introducing more
technology and robotics!?!

I've owned a few Dyson products - totally horrid. Never again. The only
positive think I can say is that their service department sends out parts
quickly.

------
timdiggerm
What is a "digital motor"?

~~~
DanBC
Dyson make a number of dubious claims.

[http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/13087/what-
is...](http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/13087/what-is-a-digital-
motor)

[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reluctance_motor)

The UK regulator of advertising lists a few upheld complaints, and some
informally resolved complaints against Dyson.

[http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications.aspx?SearchTerms...](http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications.aspx?SearchTerms=Dyson#results)

------
unwind
Fantastically annoying page design.

Scrolling takes many seconds to just show the next page, with no indication
that anything is happening. Just blank blackness.

Then each page requires you to hunt and click little circles with pluses in
them, just to show a paragraph or two of copy.

Would it have killed them to just present all the text at once? Perhaps use
tabs or some other "normal" solution to the problem of wanting to talk about
different aspects of a product? This whole "scroll to begin" paradigm is so
annoying, I think the fact that they felt they had to include that little
helper _just to tell people how to get to the content_ is an indication that
perhaps a better design exists.

Still, I'm glad that there's a robotic vacuum cleaner with better optical
bandwidth than humans. I'm sure that's a major selling point in (robotic)
vacuums.

(Also, this is a re-post of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8267476](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8267476)).

~~~
bithush
Clearly it was designed and tested in IE as that is the only browser that it
actually works in. It almost kills Firefox for me.

~~~
prawn
Worked really well in Chrome/OSX for me. Transitions were a bit slow and it's
not how I would build the site, but it did work.

------
partition
They claim that avoiding vacuuming the same area twice saves power, but is
that true in every situation? Math-wise, it seems possible for a self-avoiding
path (with thickness) to be _longer_ than a similar path (with thickness) that
does self-intersect, so the vacuum is on longer, so it actually consumes more
power.

Edit: And if you do go over the same spot twice, you should be able to detect
that with your navigation system so that you can turn the brushes and suction
off or something.

------
kbar13
dyson is the new apple

------
electic
Probably won't even considering buying this vacuum due to the page design. The
images didn't load. Jerk scroll. What a mess.

