
Facebook launches Portal TV, a $149 video chat set-top box - stclaus
https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/18/facebook-portal-tv/
======
jannes
I'm sure lots of smart people spent a lot of time and effort working on this,
but unfortunately my answer is: Hell no!

~~~
keehun
As someone in the same boat as you, it does seem like Portal webpage is
directly acknowledging this sentiment and addressing them[0].

Whether or not this page can be trusted, we'll have to see what people find
out (I sure ain't going to pay for it to do that myself).

[0]:
[https://portal.facebook.com/privacy/](https://portal.facebook.com/privacy/)

~~~
supermatt
In typical facebook style, their answers are all "does not", whereas they
should be saying "will never". It is in their nature to shift the goalposts. I
wont be getting one, and I'll be making sure noone close to me gets one
either.

------
pesenti
More info about the underlying technology:
[https://ai.facebook.com/blog/smart-camera-portal-
advances](https://ai.facebook.com/blog/smart-camera-portal-advances)

More info about the privacy settings:
[https://portal.facebook.com/privacy/](https://portal.facebook.com/privacy/)

Disclosure: I work at FB, my team developed the underlying MaskR-CNN
technology.

~~~
swebs
What exactly is the benefit of this? The video says it uses neural networks
and fast algorithms, but doesn't say what they're used for, or how it would
benefit me as an end user.

~~~
pesenti
The smart camera automatically follows and zooms in people. This ads shows it
in action:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZVFzDjBBq8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZVFzDjBBq8)

------
mattpavelle
Many people here (myself included) are anti-FB due to privacy issues and then
some, but I think this is pretty great.

The smart camera panning using facial recognition looks very useful. Right now
I Facetime a lot with my iPad and will prop it up to chat with folks and often
move around but then run back to come into the field of view. This solves that
problem (for people who use Facebook and have a TV).

And Watch Party looks pretty great too. They've essentially taken a
significant part of the "second screen" interaction and just embedded it in
the primary screen. And it looks like they're doing it well. I can see this
being a fun interaction.

~~~
therobot24
>> I can see this being a fun interaction.

Oh for sure, unfortunately, it's the Facebook label that makes this cool
product toxic. Since the Facebook brand is synonymous with poor privacy
practices (Firefox even has a 'facebook container' to help reduce tracking), I
don't see how someone didn't think to market this under a different parent
company and make it 'facebook compatible'.

~~~
stunt
That would become another press bomb in the future. They can’t keep that a
secret forever.

~~~
alexis_fr
The “Whatsapp box”. The “Instagram Connect”. The “Zukerberg eye”. There are
many names better than Facebook.

------
notyourday
I really dig this sentence in the FB press release masquerading as a
TechCrunch article:

"If you can get past the creepiness, the new Portal TV let you hang out with
friends on your home’s biggest screen."

Lets see what else we can apply this kind of logic:

"If you can get past the creepiness of having that weirdo look at you naked,
he can give you cookies! You do want cookies, right?"

The real fun, however, will be when some 5 year old is naked in front of that
thing and Facebook employees and/or contractors end up watching it in the name
of machine learning followed by the record of it showing up on Pornhub. Though
maybe at that point "think of the children" finally gets some people to go to
jail. Maybe by that time we get someone like Warren ( regardless how misguided
she is in some other aspects ) be the POTUS and push through the jail time for
executives.

------
kgraves
1984 is not a business model.

~~~
na85
It's actually a fantastic business model if you care more about profits than
ethics, and it seems like Facebook wants a piece of the living room
surveillance pie that Smart TVs/Alexa/Google Nest have been enjoying these
last few years. It's a shrewd business move on Facebook's part; think of the
things people discuss and do in their living rooms and the additional data
they will end up giving Facebook.

~~~
teddyh
I think they actually mean that 1984 _shouldn’t_ be a business model.

~~~
na85
I get that. But the fact remains that it _is_ a business model, whether we
like it or not, and as we've seen it can be very profitable. Until laws catch
up, there will always be companies like Facebook that are devoid of ethics and
will abuse surveillance technology to enrich themselves.

~~~
teddyh
Yes. Which makes it obvious that laws are what is needed. The GDPR is nice.

(Those who downvote parent, please don’t make an is-ought misinterpretation.)

------
5trokerac3
"Smith 6079W! Bend lower!"[0]

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCfW6HFP5cI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCfW6HFP5cI)

------
lvturner
Honestly, being expatriated, I can kind of see the value in this -
unfortunately I doubt the people I actually want to communicate with regularly
will be adopters of this. The tech savvy being too untrusting of it, and the
unsavvy not sure what $150 buys them over tools like Skype.

------
RonaldSchleifer
On an aside, and I know this is a shot in the dark, but does anyone know where
to find a copy of the seemingly impromptu talk Zuckerberg gave some several
years ago now, where he explained that he wanted Facebook to replace the
internet?

It is one of those rather notable regrets that I did not save that video, even
though it clearly struck me to recall it all this time. If I recall correctly,
it was a seemingly impromptu talk outside in the open either at a charity or
corporate socializing event. It was definitely not in some venue, let alone in
a large one where he's basically parroting corporate talking points. Which may
also explain the candor and seemingly single mention of his intentions that
has stuck with me all this time.

------
imgabe
Is anyone even buying the portal? Maybe it's the information bubble I travel
in, but to me it seems Facebook has destroyed any trust that would make anyone
ok with putting a video camera and listening device from them in your home.

------
yay_cloud2
Fool me once, shame on me... fool me twice, er... don't fool me agian.

------
Klathmon
I know there probably won't be much actual discussion on anything but privacy
concerns here on HN (don't get me wrong, it's an important discussion to have,
but it tends to push out literally everything else), but I did want to point
out that this quote from the article is nice to see:

>We’ve done what we can in this latest generation of products, now with
integrated camera covers that are hardware, indicator lights when the
microphone is off, and form factors that are less obtrusive and blend more
into the background of the home.

I actually really like the idea of a dedicated camera device for communicating
with family and friends who aren't nearby. And I've been looking for something
that lets us do things like play couch-coop games, watch movies, and just in
general act like we are together while not physically being together.

For example, some of my closest friends and a bunch of my family are across
the country from me. I've played DnD over video chat, i've watched birthday
parties from a phone, i've tried to do the thing where we do a voice call over
some service then try to start a streaming service like netflix at the same
time so we can watch it together. All those options suck in their own way,
from poor-quality mics, feedback, connection issues, needing to hold a phone
or device or somehow prop it up, and taking up a device which you might
otherwise want to use while with those people.

Granted the Portal looks like it won't get very far without buy-in from
companies like Netflix and other streaming services (although that whole
ecosystem is so fragmented now and it's only getting worse that i'm not sure
my hope will ever actually come true). And without the ability to really
integrate with games outside of the facebook ecosystem this is going to be a
non-starter for couch-coop as well in most cases.

I really like the idea, but Facebook isn't going to be able to build a better
Netflix and a better game console AND be the only one doing video chat with
those products. They have the chat/messaging side, but IMO that's not enough
to really pull me toward this ecosystem, and I've been looking for something
just like this for a long time now. Unfortunately, walled gardens are probably
going to kill this just like they've killed countless other things.

~~~
555513
The first Portal devices as well as this Portal TV are using an OS based on
Android AOSP.

So porting Fire TV or Android TV apps will be much more easy for developers
who want to offer their content on the Portal TV.

~~~
Klathmon
I just don't have any faith that any of the major streaming services will want
to port their services to this device, even if it's simple and straightforward
for them to do technically.

In fact it's more likely that they will try to come out with their own
hardware IMO. At every step of the way streaming companies have made it harder
and harder to actually use their services. From exclusivity deals with one
vendor over another, to having shows and movies jump from service to service
over the years. Unless I can get some kind of assurance that i'll be able to
actually use this to watch a good amount of tv shows and movies with friends
and family, i'm not going to gamble on it.

Sure, they might be able to get Netflix on it eventually, but Amazon probably
won't touch it, Google will probably steer clear if they can, and the "cable-
based streaming services" don't look like they even have the time or ability
to maintain the apps and services they already have.

At the end of the day I expect some basic services to come eventually, but
they probably won't bother integrating with the more advanced features like
simultaneous streaming on multiple devices and other stuff. I'd love to be
surprised, but I just don't have much faith any more.

~~~
bryan_w
They already have integration with Alexa voice commands, so maybe there's some
hope of adding prime video

------
Yhippa
They've solved some real business problems here and there's a lot of cool
engineering tech. I'm surprised this is buried so far that I had to use HN
search to find it. Unfortunately the fact that this comes from Facebook is the
albatross hanging around this product's neck as illustrated by most of the
comments on here.

I couldn't convince any of my friends or family to get one of the last-gen
Portals even with the discounts. I still don't know anybody who actually has
one.

------
keehun
What none of the privacy-related prose defense by Facebook addresses is the
abundant value of the metadata that Facebook will be able to harvest. Check
out what leaking even just the metadata can tell about you.[0]

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM0PmwOlifE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM0PmwOlifE)

------
ddalex
Hahahaha... how about no?!

------
rpmisms
I can't find the article, but the "Facebook Showerhead" and "Facebook TV" were
both joke products back in the early '10s. This is hilariously predictable.

------
propter_hoc
Cool. Would consider using this, but for business videoconferencing.

------
ben_jones
If you accept the premise that Facebook is hemorrhaging users (or worried
about hemorrhaging users), these sorts of products makes sense as a means to
ensure you ALWAYS have a active Facebook account.

Kind of like everyone has a Google account, either through personal gmail-
esque services, a google-for-education account, an android device, a Google
IoT device, their work account, etc.

------
sumosudo
"There will be no fight. It will not be hard to keep an eye on the masses. No
one will be duped into giving up their rights. The sad part actually, is that
they will take it willingly. Gladly, and they will be happy with it." \--
Someone, somewhere, I can't remember.

------
markholmes
What demographic is this intended for?

~~~
minxomat
People who would by an Alexa show and still watch normal TV. So, my parents
for example. Though an interesting thing has happened. Event though this is
very similar to Google or Alexa devices with cameras, I'd bet money on my
parents having a similar "how about no" reaction to any Facebook hardware.
They are Facebook users, but I think there is a lot more inherent scepticism
around Facebook that has been growing over the past year. Maybe, if this came
out before the show, it would have been the other way around. I'm in Germany
btw.

I'm definitely not the target. The two features here (TV and video chat) are
completely opposite to my needs. I want a dumb (relatively) box to which I can
hook up my Netflixes and Prime Videos etc. and view them without any ads in
the UI (looking at you, scum of the earth Smart TV manufacturers). Apple TV,
Roku or whatever. The hardware that is, not their respective services.

------
excalibur
> The Portal TV is genius

No.

~~~
aylmao
Objectively, it kind of is though. No one is claiming you have to buy it or
that it's a good product (privacy-wise, usability-wise, execution-wise, etc.
it's all tbd IMO), it's a very interesting move that makes a lot of sense, and
there are some good ideas here.

It's relatively cheap since you're not buying a touch enabled LCD panel with
the device. You want the best audio and video quality? Piggyback off TV and
sound system manufacturers and the fact that people who care about these
things probably already sunk a lot of money on nice home entertainment
hardware.

People won't have to worry about where to put another screen. You also have
the fact that the living room is semantically already a "social" space, with a
"stage". Most people have a couch to fit several people in front of their TV,
it's essentially a room already built for video calling.

Strategy-wise, they're using their core competence (social networking) to move
into the living room— which is pretty cool and unique in a world where the
other options (Roku, Apple TV, Chromecast, etc) mostly rely on entertainment.
Also, technology that right now only Portal has— the whole smart camera to
find you in the frame thing. They probably released the other Portals before
this to battle test it, since this device will probably rely more on it than
previous ones.

Honestly, why don't more companies make smarter TV boxes like this? It'd be
cool if Google made Chromecast more "Google". Imagine a Chromecast with
Assistant built-in, that makes smarter use of your TV when you're not watching
it (Google News, Google Finance, Traffic info before your commute, a couple of
important calendar reminders, etc). Now I'm thinking an Apple TV with FaceTime
and and Siri built-in could be cool too. I could use FaceTime on my TV more
than another smart speaker, and would buy it over a HomePod, personally.

There's good ideas here. Of course, wether you want to buy is a separate
issue. Honestly kind of sad there's all the privacy concerns, because it
sounds like a cool device.

~~~
excalibur
The bulk of your argument seems to boil down to "video calls on TV, much wow".
This is not brilliant, or new. My kids were doing that on the Wii U in 2012.
Probably at least a third of all conference rooms in America are equipped to
do that.

~~~
excalibur
Too much work to edit my comment on my phone. Obviously the Wii U chat only
enabled communication with a limited audience, and I think it might be
deprecated now anyway. But the Kinect does Skype.

~~~
aylmao
Didn't know about this, huh. That's pretty cool. No questions about the Wii U,
but I do wonder why Skype on the Kinect didn't take off more.

------
stunt
I wouldn’t be surprised if they are not generating any revenue by selling it
at this price point considering manufacturing, designing, hardware, and
engineering costs.

------
adam12
Man, I have a hard time carrying a smartphone after what Snowden revealed to
us. I'm surprised anyone would even think about putting one of these in their
home.

------
derp_dee_derp
i don't even understand the product after reading the article. what is the
value of this?

its an always on teleconference with my facebook friends? no thanks.

~~~
ddalex
The value is giving FB video stream data to analyze and monetize.

------
sarcasmatwork
Another device to spy on people? A privacy audit needs to be done on anything
FB touches or produces. They cannot be trusted.

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ivv
Logitech has (or had) a Skype camera that you’d clip to a TV to do a similar
thing; it’s been around for years.

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quotha
If you think what the office space guys did to that printer was bad....

