

Could we stop the anti-vaxxers if we said measles contains gluten? - plg
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/columnists/could-we-stop-the-anti-vaxxers-if-we-said-measles-contains-gluten/article22831586/

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fishnchips
Give it a few years when an anti-vaxxer celebrity's child will develop a
highly publicised case of polio. I'm truly sorry for that kid because it'll
not be her fault. But in the grand scheme of things it will be a great lesson
for the society. Sometimes we just need a harsh wake-up call.

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nn3
I like "artisanal vaccines"

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Alex3917
If the government wants to rebuild trust in the medical system, why doesn't it
just stop lying about medical issues and fix the problems with the medical
system? It's really not that hard.

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WorldWideWayne
Where are all of these "anti-vaxxers" though? All I see are articles about how
bad these people are, but I don't see any articles about big problems that
they've actually caused, just a lot of disagreement about possible problems.

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SAI_Peregrinus
You seem to have missed the Disneyland measles outbreak. And all of the other,
smaller outbreaks recently.

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WorldWideWayne
Sure, I heard about the 60 or so people who got the measles at Disney. I
didn't hear about any smaller outbreaks but I honestly don't follow the non-
tech news that closely. It didn't seem like a big deal to me...

I looked briefly, but I can't find how many vaccinated people got the disease
because of this. What damages have been done to vaccinated people and where
can I read about that?

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nasalgoat
Measles was declared eradicated in the US in 2000. Thanks to the anti-vaxers,
it's back.

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WorldWideWayne
But the vast majority who will get it will be un-vaccinated people, so aren't
they just harming themselves?

What do vaccinated people have to worry about?

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DanBC
i) not everyone can get the vaccine. Thus, people who chose not to vaccinate
are increasing the risk for those vulnerable people.

ii) vaccinations are not 100% effective. Those who chose not to vaccinate are
weakening herd immunity and putting everyone at risk.

There are risks of taking the vaccine. Those risks are very much smaller than
the risks of not taking the vaccine.

This is the same answer you keep getting and keep ignoring.

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WorldWideWayne
Vaccinated people can also spread the disease to un-vaccinated people.

Natural immunity is also much better than vaccination, so one might also say
that vaccinations are weakening natural herd immunity.

I wasn't aware that I kept getting the same answer, but please don't get
snarky with me just because I haven't immediately agreed with the rest of the
crowd here.

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DanBC
> Natural immunity is also much better than vaccination

I genuinely don't know what you're trying to say here.

Someone develops immunity by being exposed to the virus. They can either take
the dead virus in the form of a vaccine or they can take the love virus in the
form of disease.

There are risks with the vaccination. A tiny number of people suffer ill
effects.

There are significantly more risks from the disease. People routinely die or
are disabled by the virus.

The immunity that people get is the same.

You, by repeating your myths, are being dishonest.

Perhaps you mean something different by "natural immunity"? Perhaps you mean
people are somehow born with an immunity?

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WorldWideWayne
Natural immunity is simply the immunity that your body builds when you get the
non-attenuated disease. Vaccines contain chemically attenuated (weakened)
versions of a virus/parasite/whatever, so your body doesn't have to fight as
hard to immunize. It is not a myth that natural immunity is stronger and lasts
longer. The immunity that you get from a vaccine is not the same. Please check
your facts.

My main question here was this: What actual harm has come to vaccinated
people? Not hypothetical harm (e.g. the weakening of herd immunity)....actual
harm that can be shown empirically.

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Oletros
Vaccines are not 100% effective so some vaccinated people will be infected.

And you must be joking when you say it is better to get the disease to have
immunity instead of being vaccinated

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WorldWideWayne
Well, yeah natural immunity can be better with regards to the specific aspects
that I mentioned. I didn't say it was better in every regard or every
instance.

However, I still don't see what all the uproar is about. The vast majority of
infected people will be un-vaccinated and the vast majority of vaccinated
people will remain safe. The percentages of adverse events are low on either
side (i.e. low percentage of un-vaccinated folks infecting an even lower
percentage of vaccinated people vs low percentage of adverse affects directly
from the vaccines as reported by VAERS or even going by vaccine court
payouts).

That's all I have to say on the topic. Any dissenters are welcome to have the
last word :) Thank you.

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Oletros
> However, I still don't see what all the uproar is about.

If you don't get even after all the explanations given yo you it is simply
because you don't want to get it

