
I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back - bennettfeely
https://www.fastcompany.com/90270691/i-still-miss-my-headphone-jack-and-i-want-it-back
======
pookieinc
We need to take into account _Accessibility_. A large use case that I've found
most people seems to miss are individuals who are older and don't have much
experience with bluetooth or wireless technology. I'm fine with Apple removing
the headphone jack, but they've alienated so many people to find their own
path when they don't include the adapter.

Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old father
and showed him how to use it, in preparation for his "headphone jack-less"
future. After about a month (he lives in China, so I see him only a couple
times a year), I asked him how it's going and he said he doesn't use them
anymore because he just couldn't figure it out. I tried to explain "Turn on
Bluetooth on your phone, then turn on your headphones, then hold down the
button to pair, etc", but it was actually quite complicated because once he
did this dance, 2 months later his phone restarted and bluetooth was off and
we had to do it again. Software-wise, I can just send a link, but when it
comes to hardware + software like printers, things become really challenging
to explain.

I bring this up because if we're moving to the "wireless" world, we need to
really consider accessibility for the elderly. My father ended up throwing
away these really expensive Beats headphones, went to his local market and
bought some cheap Sony headphones and is now listening fine. I'm not really
sure what's going on happen when his next phone doesn't have the headphone
jack.

~~~
tjoff
Elderly? I can _guarantee_ that no human being on earth can confidently setup
bluetooth on all devices. And that's the issue, these one-off pairings.

I had a friend sync with my car bluetooth-stereo, it took a while and from the
steering wheel I couldn't be of enough help. But it worked in the end, was
quite frustrating though.

Then later when I tried to use my phone again it had been lost from the
receiver (eventhough it can support two concurrent connections and I've only
ever paired with two devices). So now I had to go through the whole dance that
it was only paired in one device.

Thing is, anything that literally takes more than 3 seconds is a disaster.
After a minute of fiddling with it I remembered I had an AUX cable. And then I
could patiently fix it when I had time for it.

Bluetooth is a nightmare for temporary connections. Removing the headphone-
jack is akin to removing a fire-alarm system because "it isn't used anyway".
Well, the times you need it it is indispensable and it doesn't cost anything.

~~~
hoorayimhelping
> _Removing the headphone-jack is akin to removing a fire-alarm system_

Am I missing something? There's still a headphone port on phones, it's just
not dedicated. People can still plug headphones in to their phones right? I'm
asking because the tone of these comments makes it seem like new phones have
removed the ability to listen to music without bluetooth.

~~~
tjoff
You are missing the fact that lugging an adapter is not a realistic option. I
lived the dongle life for almost two years. By the end the darn thing had
started glitching on me and you could not buy replacements. I'm lucky it
didn't damage the charging port...

Not that it matters, I still didn't have it with me half of the times it
turned out I needed it.

I actually considered buying like 10 of them. Now we are talking about 100 USD
of the crap and a _MASSIVE_ and daily inconvenience just because the
manufacturer decided to save a couple of cents. This shit is just ridiculous.

~~~
rikkus
I bought one and put it on the end of a headphone cable and left it there. I’m
not sure what the massive inconvenience is here.

~~~
tjoff
That works but that is just one very very narrow use case. There are tons of
situations when that won't help you.

And that's even if you only use one pair of headphones.

~~~
rikkus
I have AirPods for meetings and music while walking, the normal Apple buds -
now just backup in case I leave my AirPods behind, some Sony closed back
monsters for shutting out noise while working in cafes and some nice open back
Grados for music listening at home.

I hardly use the Sonys but if I do, I will just borrow the adaptor from my
Apple buds in my laptop bag. For listening to my Grados I use an amp with a
headphone socket.

If I wanted to plug them into my phone I would need the Apple lightning
adapter and also one to the smaller headphone jack! This doesn’t bother me. If
I want to do that, I’ll just do it.

I’ll even spend another £9 on an adapter to leave connected if I do it often
enough.

None of this seems terrible to me and I’m not sure how unique this set of
circumstances is. What are the tons of situations where this gets tricky?

~~~
tjoff
1\. Lugging your adapter just isn't an option. Stop. This should be enough
reason. Seriously. Don't try to justify it in hindsight.

2\. Since I had to constantly borrow my adapter from my regular headphones it
happened that I forgot them connected to another headphones. So I often had my
headphones with me but missing the adapter. Wasn't frustrating, promise.

3\. I don't know when I'm gonna need it. I made a long trip by train and
thought that some nice bluetooth noise cancelling phones would be nice. Well,
at my destination we took a drive and I was asked to play some music. Ooops,
no adapter.

4\. At work my bluetooth headphones lost battery, no worries, you can still
drive them with a headphone jack. Ooops, no adapter.

5\. I dance, one day when arriving to practice the people responsible for it
were running late. No worries, just connect your phone! Ooops, no adapter.

6\. If your going social gathering with friends to a cottage you might not
think to bring your headphones. But while there some music would be kind of
nice. Ooops, no adapter.

 _Situations like that happens all the time_ , and it's nothing one thinks
about because it's just a given that everything works. Well, was... So now I
actually did bring my adapter even in cases when I didn't need my headphones.
Which was another source of (2).

The above inconveniences all assume that it works as expected when you do have
your adapter. But it doesn't. You can not charge and listen to music at the
same time and while I love USB-C to bits it is way too clunky to be used while
in your pocket. The connector did actually start to show signs of wear from
having the adapter connected while walking. Luckily I had no issues charging
my device but I actually don't know if data still worked.

Think about it, that alone is also completely unacceptable.

And that's all assuming that it would be kind of okay to even have an adapter
at the end of your cord, even that just isn't.

See (1).

------
S_A_P
100% agree with this. Its pretty interesting that I almost never use
headphones anymore now because bluetooth headphones require a few things: 1)
preplanning/foresight in charging the headphones 2) refer to number 1.

I have 2 really nice pairs of bluetooth headphones, and almost NEVER use them.
Guess what pair gets used almost daily? my 15 year old beyerdynamic DT770s.
3.5mm or ¼" plug, closed back. Not really the most accurate, but a nice bass
heavy rich sound and plenty loud. they work with gear that is 50 years old and
brand new(so long as they include a headphone jack). I have vintage analog
synthesizers 80s and 90s samplers to <2 year old digital synths. All work with
these headphones.

Apple really really really really really really screwed up here. reverse
course immediately.

~~~
Bud
AirPods require neither of these things. The case is always charging them. You
want to use your beyerdynamics? Fine. Your phone came with an adapter for
them.

~~~
saurik
I use AirPods. I even like them. ... but you do realize that the case isn't a
magical source of energy, right? You have to charge that thing... and the
airpods themselves last a remarkably long time, but they don't last _that_
long, so I find myself having to do this awkward dance in the middle of
meetings where I take one out and charge it while relying on the other one,
and then I swap to charge that one... I have lightning earpods, but then I
can't charge my phone at the same time, so at some point my phone starts
running out of battery and I'd have to switch to the airpods anyway (lol). I
have tried buying multiple brands of lightning splitters, and they all suck
and often the phone isn't quite able to charge even though it says it is
charging.

I honestly don't care if I have a "headphone jack": I totally agree with Apple
that it was a shitty jack. It was a fragile hole that made it impossible to
waterproof the damned phone. How about they just give me two lightning ports?
Or a lightning port and a USB-C port, to make my dreams finally come true of
only having to carry around one (USB-C) cable while still getting to be
compatible with all of the stuff Apple already sold for these devices?

~~~
franga2000
> made it impossible to waterproof the damned phone Was that what Apple told
> their customers? Because it's utter bullshit. Sony, Samsung, LG, even those
> ultra-rugged CAT phones had headphone jacks and at least IP-68 (5m, 1h).

~~~
saintPirelli
I love my CAT S41 because I don't have any of the issues in this thread and I
expect this to stay true for another 10 years.

------
BLKNSLVR
The blog ends with the best and most insightful comment:

 _And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to
remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse._

The author also points towards active de-standardisation between Android and
iOS:

 _" if only there was one universal audio port they both could use"_

Apple gets an advantage from this with their iron-grip on compatible
peripherals, but I don't know why any of the Android manufacturers would
follow suit. The ugliness of the impracticality of fashion.

~~~
jamesrcole
Personally, I detest wired headphones. I find they always get caught on things
while I'm wearing them, and because of the neck problems I have that's a big
issue for me (and as well as that, they'd always get tangled up in my bag,
which was a bit of a hassle).

So I'm personally glad they've removed the headphone jack, because it will
help push wireless into the mass market (and bring down prices) at a faster
rate than it otherwise would have.

Now of course, there's lots of people who don't find it a positive like I do.
My point is not that everyone should find the jack removal great, my point is
that it's wrong to claim that it's a disadvantage for everyone.

On a separate note, people like to shit on Apple for that "courage" claim, but
even _if_ removing the jack was a bad decision, I think it's fair to call it a
courageous one, because they knew well that they'd get a lot of shit for
making that decision. Look at what gets said every time the headphone jack
issue is brought up on HN.

~~~
xg15
I don't know, I don't think any of those personal reasons invalidates the
arguments of the parent. Your mileage on cables may vary, but the removal of
an interface that had been understood by laypeople and was universally
supported for the last 50 years seems a more important point to me.

~~~
jamesrcole
It invalidates the quoted bit they endorsed that said "no human's life is
measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to remove the 3.5 mm jack."
"No human's life" is a blanket, absolute statement, and it's wrong. Wireless
headphones are much more ubiquitous and cheap these days, and a major brand
removing headphone jacks is part of the reason for this.

~~~
ayoisaiah
I don't think it's wrong. How has removing the headphone jack made anyone's
life better? I can't think of one way.

It's not as if you couldn't use wireless headphones before the headphone jack
was removed. Now that the jack is removed, you're forced to use a USB-C dongle
(which has its disadvantages) or purchase expensive Bluetooth headphones if
you want a decent enough quality / battery life.

~~~
jamesrcole
> _How has removing the headphone jack made anyone 's life better?_

Ancestor comments of this have explained that.

Removing headphone jack speeds up uptake of wireless headphones, and greater
uptake of them makes them cheaper. These are changes that have already
happened. This has benefited people who want to use wireless headphones.

~~~
yoodenvranx
> Removing headphone jack speeds up uptake of wireless headphones

1) And by doing this we create even more e-waste!

2) I do _not_ want wireless headphones! I almost exclusively use headphones
when I am traveling by bus and train. This happens every 2-4 weeks. At the
moment I have a cheap pair of wired headphones in my backpack. They need 0
maintenance. if I need them I just use them. They never needs charging and
they never will break. If I have to switch to wireless headphones a) I have to
start to take care about charging them and b) they will break after 3 years
because the battery dies and can not be replaced.

~~~
jamesrcole
> _1) And by doing this we create even more e-waste!_

You could say that about anything new.

> _2) I do _not_ want wireless headphones!_

Good for you, no-one is forcing you to use them.

All I have ever done in this comment thread is argue against the idea that
removing the headphone jack has zero benefits for anyone. And yet I'm getting
piled on by people basically accusing me of trying to force everyone to go
wireless.

As if pointing out that some people have different wants from theirs is
somehow denying their wants. It's an amazing lack of perspective.

Is it that hard to accept that someone else has a different view from your
own, and that them expressing it is not the same as trying to force it upon
you?

~~~
xg15
But no-one was forcing you to use wired headsets before either. There were
options for wireless available.

I think the question remains whether _making wired headphones harder to use_
had zero benefits. That's a different question than whether _making wireless
headphones easier to use_ had.

You made an economic argument for the former question - but you can't make
that argument and say "no one is forcing you" at the same time.

~~~
jamesrcole
I made an argument about removing the headphone jack, not about making one
thing easier or another thing harder. My argument was about a consequence of
removing the jack.

I know no one was being forced to use wired headphones before. That has
nothing at all to do with an argument about the consequences of removing the
jack.

------
whiddershins
Apple has had great success in the past by pushing new standards in computer
peripherals, deprecating old standards, and generally moving the industry
forward by fiat.

I think we've all benefitted somewhat from this attitude, even if it was
inconvenient.

The distinction here is that the 3.5mm standard isn't/wasn't a computer
peripheral standard. It is/was an audio industry standard. There are many uses
for 3.5mm that have nothing to do with phones/tablets/laptops/desktops.

Additionally, the audio industry has a different obsolescence timeline than
computer equipment. Audiophile and pro audio headphones (for example)
represent a significant investment and are intended to last many years.

In my view, Apple's approach to this was a kind of chauvinistic hubris. No, I
don't want to use a $15 adapter of dubious quality on my $1500 custom molded
in-ear monitors. No, I can't just get a new pair. No, I can't re-sell them,
they only fit my ears. No, they wouldn't sound the same even if a bluetooth
version were to become available. No, I doubt the 4 person company that makes
them is eager to try to figure out how to make a lightning version, even if
they have the in-house expertise.

The decision really shows a lack of understanding of the world outside of
computer manufacturing, and it is too bad others followed suit.

~~~
azag0
The $15 adapter is most likely of similar quality as the DAC and other audio
components in the phone, so I don’t see the point. (Also, most people I know
with $1000 headphones use an external audiophile-grade DAC anyway.)

~~~
ishmeister
They might, but why should they have to? That tiny ESS DAC in LG phones is
measurably better than a lot of external "audiophile-grade" DACs. It doesn't
compromise the design or the water resistance of the phone either and probably
doesn't add much cost relative to other components.

This is basically an arrogant move that can't really be technically justified.
E.g. By arguing that better external options exist - better external cameras
also exist, should we get rid of the camera too?

------
aerophilic
One of the things I feel happens in the tech world is innovation for
innovation’s sake. In my opinion, “Real innovation” solves problems. What was
the problem Apple was really trying to solve by removing the jack? The only
thing I can come up with is to allow a “thinner” design.

In all the previous “radical changes”, they created a “better solution” to a
problem. Take the removal of Floppies or CD drives, in both cases, the problem
was getting data onto the machine efficiently. In both cases technology moved
ahead and created better methods of moving data.

Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I fail to see what problem they
really “solved” by removing the audio jack.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
Many have said thinner is the reason, yet phones without jacks are not thinner
than those with.

The problem solved was encouraging sales of some very expensive wireless
earbuds. I really do think it was as simple as that.

Those who want Bluetooth wireless could just as easily have it on a phone with
a jack without losing any benefit. They already did.

~~~
MAGZine
My understanding is that the headphone jack actually occupies a lot of space.
If you have opened up a phone before, it is evident that all internal space is
_very_ well accounted for, so removing a headphone jack is actually a very
tangible increase in usable internal space. And it's not just the jack, you
need to include a DAC in the device, too!

This means being able to include more/new co-processors, different/better
microphone technology, etc, not just thinner.

Only what I've heard from other hardware engineers though, I do not work
directly in the space. "Sell headphones," could absolutely be a goal.

~~~
NeedMoreTea
> need to include a DAC in the device

How does the earpiece and speaker work without a DAC in the device? That's
there whether there's a jack or not. :)

~~~
dancek
The earpiece and speaker distort the sound so much it doesn't really matter
what DAC you drive them through. ARM microcontrollers tend to have built-in
DACs that are probably good enough for that kind of use.

But when you have your high-quality headphones on, you can certainly tell the
difference between a $0.10 DAC and a $5 DAC, just as you could tell the
difference between 8-bit and 16-bit samples or 22kHz and 44kHz sample rate.

To get good sound quality, you need good DAC and audio amplifier chips and
well-balanced circuitry around them. That takes space.

------
beloch
Apple and Google seem to have approached removing the headphone jack, not as a
way to reduce costs to the customer by eliminating an obsolete feature they
don't use but, instead, as a way to increase the money they can squeeze out of
customers by forcing them to replace perfectly good headphones they are
currently using with new headphones _hopefully_ made by Apple or Google.

I'm honestly not surprised by this. Headphone technology hasn't really changed
for many decades. A good pair of cans made a very long time ago are probably
still a good pair of cans. I have some Audio Technica woodies that I
absolutely love and are still going strong after more than a decade. To Apple
and Google, this is a state of affairs that cannot be allowed to stand!
Where's the planned obsolescence and constant product turnover? Apple tried to
make their earbuds a disposable commodity that need to be replaced frequently,
but people caught onto the fact that it was just due to bad build quality and
kept buying stuff from other companies. So, change up the connectors and force
wireless standards that are, quite frankly, not that good for audio and ripe
for eventual upgrade (i.e. bluetooth) into headphones so people won't be able
to use the same pair for decades. Profit!

So what should consumers do if they like their current headphones or just
don't want to deal with adapters, charging bluetooth devices, or sorting out
multiple incompatible connectors? Buy phones that still have headphone jacks,
like the Samsung S9.

~~~
asdff
I hate the direction they are moving with the port situation on their
products, which is to nickel and dime you for the privilege of using different
connections. I can buy a brand new iPhone and macbook, and come home with no
way to connect them with the supplied cables, I need to buy a dongle. I can't
use the same headphones with my computer and phone anymore, either; apple
doesn't include the 3.5mm dongle with their phones anymore and instead would
gladly tack on $10 for 1-inch of cable that should have never existed on this
earth in the first place.

------
metildaa
Its sad to see the contortions my boyfriend makes to support his purchase of a
headphone jack free android, despite his desire for high quality audio (he
hates bluetooth with a passion). USB C to 3.5mm adapters are cheap, but break
at the drop of a hat. His integrated speaker meanwhile has blown, and makes
for terrible calls.

Headphone jacks serve a useful purpose, most phones could still have them
without compromising other properties, but its been made fashionable to go
without.

~~~
eikenberry
If he desires high quality audio he should buy a separate DAC/Amp or a
dedicated audio player. DACs in cell phones are mediocre at best and you can
get better sound (and headphone jack support) elsewhere.

~~~
justtopost
This is not true. Apple, LG, both have/had audiophile grade dacs, and I
suspect many others do as well.

------
brianmcc
Rather than getting into the ins and outs of why they did it, who misses the
jack, who doesn't, why can't we just agree based on the wealth of commentary
here and elsewhere that for a significant minority - possibly even a very
_large_ minority - this removal represents a disproportionately high impact
change?

It's like admitting that people are entitled to mourn the removal of the jack
is part of a slippery slope toward admitting that Apple - gasp - made a
mistake, and that's just untenable.

Apple makes a ton of money from this - they're one of the main BT headphone
vendors - so I actually don't consider it a mistake on their part (they know
exactly what they are doing) but for other manufacturers it makes no sense.
No-one buys a phone _because_ it has no jack. Some people though will rule
phones out for dispensing with the jack. So why do they do it?!

For me for example, it's literally the first thing I now consider: I will not
buy a jack-less phone while alternatives are available. Don't care about
camera, brand, etc - any mid range Android with a jack will pretty much suit
me.

~~~
slig
As a owner of a mid range Android phone with a phone jack, I had the same
opinion. But now I see there's more to it, the quality of the DAC makes a huge
difference.

~~~
brianmcc
Interesting - which devices have you found to be good and bad, and how does
the difference manifest?

I tend to notice drop offs for sampling bit rate, and can hear the difference
with Bluetooth, but I've personally never connected to any device playing
decent quality streams/downloads and noticed a difference. Not saying _no-one
can notice it_ , just find it interesting I've never done so!

FWIW I listen through some AKG 550s, which I can highly recommend.

~~~
slig
I currently have a Motorola Z2 Play, and before that had a iPhone 6. Even
using a pair of Apple's earpods I can tell the difference.

Will take a look at the AKG 550s, thanks for the recommendation.

------
mangecoeur
While we're whinging about loss of headphone jacks, lets add latency! Apple
have always pushed their kit as being friendly for musicians and such. Now try
playing an iOS MIDI instrument over bluetooth - with ~200ms delay between you
hitting a key and hearing it. Useless and infuriating. So back to the dongle
it is. Except of course if you want to charge and listen at the same time
(which, you know, tends to happen when you are running a few power-hungry
audio apps).

~~~
sneak
The Y-cable that allows charging+headphone simultaneously is widely available
for $13 or so. I simply don’t understand why everyone in this narrow use case
finds this to be such a monumental hassle.

~~~
faceplanted
One of the reasons people buy expensive tech is that it comes "batteries
included" so to speak, the idea that to do something as simple as use
headphones requires making another purchase after you've just spent $1000 is
pretty antithetical to that.

~~~
sneak
Modern headphones are wireless, and, incidentally, literally have batteries
included.

~~~
mangecoeur
Slightly ironic that the whole point of the original comment is that wireless
headphones are junk if you need low latency for music production.

------
rabboRubble
The most annoying thing about the missing headphone jack, is the missing
headphone jack on other people's phones. The people who ride public transport
blaring bad music without headphones. Because Bluetooth headsets are a pain
and the overlap between a) the type of person willing to annoy an entire
carful of passengers and b) the type of person unable to manage the planning
of wireless headphone charing ahead of time is nearly 100%.

And now that the cultural prohibition against making unnecessary noise is
broken, it won't be coming back easily.

Thanks Apple. Thanks...

------
solatic
USB-C audio wouldn't suck if:

a) there was a standard protocol for a USB-C DAC that everyone supported
(across desktop and mobile OSes) such that an end consumer could purchase a
USB-C DAC and be reasonably confident that it'll work universally,

b) phones came with more than one USB-C port, such that playing and charging
at the same time wouldn't be an issue

If anything, USB-C should've been a revolution, pushing the DAC closer to the
speakers can help improve audio quality and getting rid of the DAC in the
phone helps to level the playing field between devices. But the OEMs dropped
the ball hard.

------
Nerdfest
After saying I'd never get a phone without a headphone jack until Bluetooth
codecs improved, I ended up getting a Pixel2XL through "reward points". It's a
great phone ... and I've "only" been needed a headphone jack a dozen or so
times in the six months I've had it. Not for headphone, but for other audio
input or output requirements.

What an absolutely idiotic idea. I've started leaving those stupid dongles
everywhere, but even they don't for with everything. Fashion over function,
with an eye to more lock-in.

~~~
ngngngng
The more I have my pixel 2 xl the more I miss the headphone jack.

I lost the dongle long ago and have no idea where to buy a new one. Google
doesn't seem to sell them and everywhere online says the don't even work.

~~~
baobrain
A simple google search returns this as the first result:

[https://store.google.com/us/product/usb_c_headphone_adapter?...](https://store.google.com/us/product/usb_c_headphone_adapter?hl=en-
US)

~~~
ngngngng
It's been a few months since I checked, maybe they just happened to not have
them when I was looking, thanks!

------
c17r
I'm holding onto my 6s+ with a death grip.

If they had replaced the 3.5mm with another lightning port, I would have
upgraded by now. This single port thing is just silly. Same thing with the
latest Macbook Pros, the switch to USB-C doesn't bother me, the low number of
ports does.

~~~
Latty
I was looking for this, I think it's crazy there isn't a phone with dual USB-C
ports - one top, one bottom. Not only is it a thinner port for audio, but you
can use a wired peripheral while charging, or use a charger from the top if it
is more convenient.

I guess it's not something enough people would care about, but it seems like
at least one company would have done it by now.

------
tokyodude
I used to always carry a Y adapter so I could share my music with whoever I'm
traveling with. No more of that :(

If any of you know Asian style box karaoke (small private rooms for 4 to 16
people) some places let you plug in external input... but of course they only
have headphone cables so none of that anymore. I suppose they're supposed to
some how setup Apple TV/Chromecast in every room?

Here in Tokyo anytime I enter a crowded train station or a crowded
intersection my Airpods basically cease to function cutting in and out, mostly
out, for the until I get out of the crowded area. Didn't have that issue with
my wired headphones.

I actually mostly like my Airpods but I do wish my phone kept the headphone
jack.

------
tomlum
Right now if you buy a macbook and an iPhone, you will get:

An iPhone with no headphone jack, a pair of lightning headphones, a lightning
to usb charging cable

A macbook with a headphone jack and no usb ports.

Out of the box you cannot charge your phone with your laptop, or use either
headphones for either. They could very well be made by separate companies.
They have Zero out of the box connectivity with each other. I don't care what
anyone has to say about usb-c and the future: this is a step backwards for
those of us in the present.

------
mark-r
I'm voting with my wallet. My household will never have a phone that is
missing the 3.5mm jack.

~~~
chillacy
This comment is bound to age poorly ;)

Unless 3.5mm headphone jacks will be around in 50 years who knows.

~~~
buboard
i mean, people buy turntables nowadays. new ones, not just vintage and
antiques. Audio equipment tends to age veery slowly

~~~
akvadrako
That's not how it worked. Turntables became obsolete then they become popular
years later _because_ everything about them is inferior.

~~~
buboard
but also because people have old vinyl disks which they can revive. and people
complained about the cold sound of CDs forever. it's not like tech, where you
don't really see people crying over their burnt memory chips.

Especially for audio connectors, i don't think it is a coincidence that the
3.5mm jacks and its fatter brother have not changed since forever. people
wanted to use it with their older stuff.

------
fsloth
An unrelated note: there seems to be lot of comments in this thread that are
downvoted just because people disagree with them.

I would prefer a culture where comments that you agree with are upvoted,
comments that you disagree on you offer an alternative point of view, and only
comments that are completely deragatory to the quality of discussion are
downvoted.

Thanks!

And yeah, I love my 3.5 mm jacks, sometimes tech matures to a point where it
really does not need to change for centuries.

~~~
justtopost
I have lobbied for years that downvotes should only be enabled if A. You
respond B. You upvote a response to the comment. This would bring all the
nasty bias to the surface, which I feel is why its not implemented.

------
nathan_long
My questions are:

1\. What's the value of a wireless connection to a device you'll be touching
when you use it anyway?

2\. Assuming you value "no cord tangles" so highly that you're willing to put
up with Bluetooth, charging your headphones, risking dropping your AirPods
down a storm drain, etc, why can't the rest of us just have the jack as an
option? Nobody's saying "remove Bluetooth."

3\. What about the value of loose coupling and backward and forward
compatibility? Given a couple adapters, I can plug my current iPod into a
1970s stereo, or plug a record player into my car stereo, and instantly have
them working. Brand and device age are irrelevant. BlueTooth compatibility
isn't guaranteed between two devices made _today_.

------
51Cards
I've hung onto my first generation Pixel for largely this reason. There isn't
a lot in the new models to entice me to switch however the loss of the 3.5mm
port was the tipping point for me not to purchase either of the updates. I
just put a new factory battery in my Pixel ($90 CAD) and it's back to like new
again. At the moment I think I'll hold on to it for at least another year.

------
dvcrn
I don't miss the headphone jack a bit. Apple forced me into trying bluetooth
headphones and so far I've not looked back. For cases when I want a cabled
connection after all (like in airplanes), I just use the adapter.

I had it a few times in the past that I used cabled headphones, ripped on the
cable and smacked my phone on the floor by accident.

~~~
mattnewton
Glad it worked out for you. They could have just sold you the product the way
they used to though: I would have bought airpods after trying them out since I
trust apple, not because I was forced to abandon my perfectly good wired
headphones after breaking or losing all my adaptors, and all the collateral
damage with that.

------
stcredzero
Apple's removal of the headphone jack wasn't "courage." Courage was Steve Jobs
determining that pen tablets weren't viable back in 2000 and knowing later
just when touch tablets were ready for the public. What Apple did was fail to
realize that Bluetooth headphones are still a bit awkward and not quite ready
for mainstream ubiquity. Instead, they took away something that just works and
replaced it with something a bit over-complicated that is nifty in a
propeller-head way. It was the opposite of what Apple is supposed to do.

------
sidchilling
I still want to be able to charge my phone and listen to music using the
headphone jack. How is that not even a use case anymore? I don’t like the
AirPods because they are too easy to lose, and I’m so clumsy with headphones
that I buy cheap ones every month, which comes with headphone jack only.

I think Apple made a very bad UX, and never cared about users. I moved to
Android phones as a result, which frankly aren’t as inferior as they used to
be 4 years ago.

~~~
marcodave
> I still want to be able to charge my phone and listen to music using the
> headphone jack

I guess they want you to buy the wireless charging dock?

------
me551ah
I am an audiophile and I don't miss the headphone jack at all. I've always
hated the headphone jack on most phones since most of them are inherently low
quality. If you have a high end headphone then the weakest link usually is the
DAC ( Digital to Analog ) chip on your device. While there are some devices
which are made with high fidelity audio in mind ( LG V30 which does come with
a headphone jack ), most of the devices in the market aren't. Also good high
fidelity headphones usually have higher resistance ( I use DT770 Pro regularly
with is rated at 250 ohms ) and almost none of the phones in market today can
drive them to the best of their ability. Historically I've always carried a
mini amp(Fiio A3) to use my headphones with headphone jacks in my phone to be
able to get good audio quality from headphones. Mobile devices just don't have
enough juice to give you good sound quality and drive high end headphones to
the best of their ability. Even headphones rated at 32 ohms can benefit hugely
from a higher audio output.

So for me, audio from a mobile device comes down to 2 use cases:

1\. Calling and other low-fidelity tasks

I have a sennheiser bluetooth headphones which supports AptX for these
purposes. Bluetooth is lossy and AptX gives you much better audio quality.
They are rated at 10+ hours and usually work pretty well for calling and other
light uses.

2\. Listening to audio

I carry a portable DAC ( Fiio X3) but there are many portable ones available
in the market. If you have an iPhone you can get the Fiio i1 which is based on
apple's lightning. A portable DAC will usually come with it's own Amp and the
audio output will be far better than what a standard phone is capable of. If
you have high end headphones you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much
difference a good DAC+Amp combo can make. I exclusively use TIDAL for audio
streaming since their lossless audio has much higher fidelity compared to
other streaming providers.

~~~
rkangel
Using phone audio in a way that benefits from that extra increase in audio
quality is the minority case (based on my observations). Most people listen on
the their phone when they are 'out and about', walking in town with car noise
in the background, on the subway etc.. In those environments, the returns
diminish quite quickly past a decent pair of noise isolating in ear
headphones.

This is the case for which the new situation is the unarguable improvement,
but I think it's rare enough that consumers as a group have lost more than
they gain.

------
capedape
I’ve tried AirPods, which sounded ok, but they fall out. The included
headphones don’t sound good (and also fall out) compared to any of the
headphones I already own. I’ve been to the Apple store four times in the last
year and had to sit and wait to get a dongle replaced. Once, while in another
country the adaptor just quit working. They had a certified Apple store, but
the dongle was out of stock so I had to wait four days for one. The second day
of waiting was in a motorcycle accident which left me in a hospital bed with
no headphones.

I start a lot of audio/visual sketches on iPad I can’t use Bluetooth
headphones because of the quality and latency...

Get it together Apple, I’m really tired of this dongle adaptor’s poor quality
and the kludgy nature of Bluetooth.

------
jacknews
I don't think I've ever used my phone headphone jack (still 3.5mm), but I will
absolutely never buy a laptop without 3.5mm.

The article is spot on, no-one is served by this change, except manufacturers.

~~~
WillPostForFood
At this point I'd take a MacBook with a lightning jack, because now I have to
carry a separate pair of headphones for my iPhone and my Macbook. I'd prefer
3.5mm everywhere, but if you are going to drop it, make it consistent across
product lines.

~~~
andreakate
I'm stuck in the two pair camp as well and I cannot for the life of me
understand why Apple makes a 3.5mm to lightning adapter but won't make a
lightning to 3.5mm adapter. I have a great pair of headphones that use the
lightning cable but I travel a lot and my MacBook along with _every_ airplane
uses 3.5mm so I can only use them with my phone. It's maddening.

------
Wowfunhappy
I flat out will not buy a phone without a headphone jack, and I cannot see
this changing in the forseeable future.

Anything that could be added to a new phone model—a better screen, a faster
processor, a better camera, etc—will not be enough to offset the inconvenience
of being unable to listen to an audiobook on the subway because I inevitably
forgot the damn adapter.

As long as there is one phone with a headphone jack, that is the one I will
buy. If the only options are older devices, I will buy the least-old one.

------
ggg9990
Just bought an iPhone 6S four days ago because of this and the physical home
button. $140 brand new.

------
KuhlMensch
Haha, I literally just got Amazoned this £130.00 order to enable me to use
headphones with HQ sound AND mic WHILE charging my new iPad Pro 11", which
only has USB-C:

    
    
      - http://amzn.eu/d/dm8vC88
      - http://amzn.eu/d/0o5f4JK
    

And I KNOW I'm going to have a 50% chance this works, and 0% chance this works
without either software or hardware problems. I'm psychologically for the
random audio drop-outs and glitches when I slightly reposition the orgy-of-
dongles (that is the collective noun right?)

I'm all over wireless as a concept, but BlueTooth can't seem to handle High
quality sound & mic so, I consider removing the audio jack on the iPad pro to
be a mistake. I don't hate Apple, I don't think they are offending me, I don't
bother trying to guess at why. I just plain think they have made a mistake.

And god damn, when I plug my headphones into an old iPad and ... "it just
works" ... god damn.

EDIT: The above config of hardware works for sound! Yay! Not tried mic yet.

------
rovek
It feels to me like Bluetooth consumer products are a lot like consumer
printers; for 90+% of users they will be obsolete before they "just work" to
any layperson's definition.

Every Christmas, you will have to fix your parents printer/wireless home
device which hasn't worked for months and won't work in 2 months.

------
murraybhenson
This hasn't bothered me in the least and I was fine with the change.

Before I bought an iPhone without the headphone jack I bought a SoundBlaster
bluetooth adapter for my wired headphones - which I'm quite fond of - and so
continued to use my wired headphones. I've only got the one set of headphones,
so they stay permanently plugged into the Sound Blaster device. I'll keep it
until my wired headphones die or until there are a set of bluetooth headphones
with a good fit and good battery life.

[https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-
blaster-e3](https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-e3)

------
petecox
I still use the FM tuner built into Snapdragon phones.

I guess everyone else streams their radio these days.

~~~
BLKNSLVR
My phone has an FM tuner built-in but, for whatever ridiculous manufacturer
reason, it's disabled by default and can only be switched on in some kind of
debug mode which won't allow it to play in the background whilst doing other
things on the phone.

I could stream the local radio station, sure, but that's a fair whack of data
just doesn't need to clog up my internets / quota.

------
andrewaylett
I have a lovely pair of Bluetooth headphones, yet when I bought a new phone
the other month I deliberately went for one that still has a headphone jack.
Why? Because much as I love Bluetooth, I still use the jack. Maybe not every
day, but if I want to plug into pretty much anything that's not my headphones
or my car then I need a jack.

Apple make a lot of money from phones. They also make a lot of money from
Bluetooth headphones. It makes a lot of sense for them, from an ecosystem
building perspective, to push people from cheap wired headphones to expensive
Apple headphones. I'm less certain what non-Apple manufacturers expect to
gain.

------
nikki93
RHA TrueConnect is the best AirPods alternative I've seen. Fits different ear
sizes (this was my problem w/ AirPods -- RHA's come with many sizes of
covering, including one that you can shrink and expands inside your ear like
earplugs), good audio quality (RHA is good at it), look sleek and have a great
case, use Bluetooth 5. Just wish I could use AAC and aptX with it for lower
latency (I know they say they don't support it -- I tried just for kicks and
it removed the latency but added weird artifacts -- only noticed latency
originally w/ macOS btw, not on iOS).

------
hacalox
If you miss the headphone jack don't buy an Iphone. When buying a product you
are actually validating its design with your purchase. Every dollar is a vote
and money is the only language companies talk.

~~~
ayoisaiah
The problem is many Android manufacturers are also following suit for no
apparent reason.

------
dmode
More than the lack of headphone jack, I actually hate the lightning / usb-c /
3.5 mm inconsistency between the iPhone and Macbook. I mean, I usually would
keep the dongle on my headset. But when I need to get on a Webex call or
listen to music from you computer, I have to remove the dongle. I have
misplaced them a few times because of this reason.

Although, I would say that the one upside of removing the headphone jack has
been the release of Airpods. One you use them, there is no going back to wired
headphones.

------
maerF0x0
At the end of the article I find it amusing that the author states

> I won’t start about how many times I’ve tried to use wireless headphones
> only to find them dead, because anything wireless is just another battery to
> worry about.

The same logic points that his _phone_ is also wireless. Maybe we should add a
cord to that?

The responsibility to have the foresight to charge a device has, in my life,
proven to be a small and reasonable request.

In many android cases (unsure about apple) you can even charge your head
phones using your phone as a battery.

~~~
psteinweber
I don't agree. Just because a phone needs foresight and charging, doesn't mean
that it's not a massive disadvantage if other accessory also require the same
effort. It's just an additional hassle and more things to charge.

That logic doesn't scale.

------
jueteng_lord
It is my strong opinion that Apple's "design courage" is business driven than
actual innovation. The reason being is that it was released the same day as
the Apple AirPods. A similar comment can be said for Google's "design courage"
for the Pixel 2, when on the same day they released the Pixel Buds.

If they were concerned about space and waterproofing, could they have just
made a magsafe lightning port instead of a hole taking that amount of space at
the bottom?

------
jason46
I don't miss the stereo jack on my motorola, I have wireless headphones, a car
with BT and a jeep without BT. Walmart has these at the check out line, I use
it in my jeep.

[https://www.walmart.com/ip/EliteMailers-Bluetooth-
Receiver-T...](https://www.walmart.com/ip/EliteMailers-Bluetooth-Receiver-
Transmitters-With-Hands-free-calling-AUX-cable-Radio-Stereo-Adapter-Car-
Charger-for-All-Smartphones/525557240)

------
WheelsAtLarge
The missing jack is all about expanding sales for Apple. Had they not bought
Beats we would still have the jack. By removing the jack they can sell a hell
of a lot more headphones to people by telling them that the new tech will make
the music sound so much better.

Previously 150 dollar headphones seemed expensive. Now 150 dollar beats feel
like the norm, even cheap.

We won't be getting the jack back. Good for Apple but sucks for suckers --
sorry I mean consumers.

------
etrautmann
YES! I could have written this exact article. It rings true daily. Such a
massive PITA, the number of dongles I've bought / lost, etc. is unreal.

~~~
arvinsim
I remember using my adapter only once but I still manage to lost it!

I swear, these things are so easy to misplace.

------
apricot13
The headphone jack is still also the main way to guarantee your laptop wont
make a sound when someone sends you a youtube video in a deathly quiet office!

------
jacobush
But why can't Bluetooth be fixed?

Imagine a protocol, where the phone broadcasts a low power wireless signal,
encrypted, for anyone to listen to. The headphones decode this signal and
plays the sound. No synchronizing, no fuzz.

The Bluetooth protocol does something royally error prone. My Windows computer
will only connect to my headphones _if and only if_ I tell Windows to connect
and _then very quickly_ turn the headphones on.

------
metafunctor
Based on all the other comments here I'm probably in the minority, but I still
think the author should just get some decent Bluetooth headphones.

I have AirPods and Sennheiser Momentums. I'm looking forward to another year
of my life when I don't need to untangle a mess of wires in my jacket pocket
every day. Battery life is very good, and I haven't had any problems with
running out of juice on these.

~~~
snaky
That's great, but that's not the point. The point is

> And no human’s life is measurably better since Apple had the “courage” to
> remove the 3.5 mm jack. But a lot of our lives are just a little worse.

The headphone jack don't disable BT you know.

------
dalf
[https://youtu.be/utfbE3_uAMA](https://youtu.be/utfbE3_uAMA)

video from "Strange Parts", which after multiple tries brought back a
headphone jack on a iPhone 7. It is described as not ready for prime time (see
at the end
[https://youtu.be/utfbE3_uAMA?t=1872](https://youtu.be/utfbE3_uAMA?t=1872) )

------
catchmeifyoucan
+1 for one extra battery to keep charged. I don't like that. That's precisely
why I stopped using my Apple Watch after a few months.

------
diegoperini
I use a six dollars worth 3.5mm to blutooth reciever to convert my good old
headphones into a wireless one. Didn't regret since.

------
seanhunter
People just love to find things to complain about. There are a number of great
options:

1)Get a different phone or keep your old phone. Noone's forcing you to use one
without a headphone jack. You could even use an older iPhone if innovation
frightens you in general and you're happy with your old setup

2)Get/use an adapter. THey're not expensive and sometimes come with the phone

3)Get/use headphones with the new style of plug. You could probably use some
new headphones as they get pretty janky over time

4)Use wireless. In lots of ways it's objectively better. Yeah you may need to
get used to a new thing, but being good at adapting to change is an important
muscle to exercise.

Honestly every time there's innovation there are all kinds of complaints,
especially on here.

"Why do I have to change to USB-C? I'm fine with my old peripherals" (well
your old computer still works with your old peripherals and if you want to use
a new computer there are adapters).

"Why do I have to change to wireless headphones?" (you don't. Your old phone
still works with old headphone jacks and there are adapters)

The idea that older people are completely unable to handle plugging a
headphone adapter in but are somehow able to plug a headphone jack in is just
bizarre. You can just pretend that the adapter is part of the cable with the
headphones and always keep them together.

~~~
mackrevinack
1) so the solution is to have a second phone that you have to charge and
update and install apps on and keep them updated and then just bring around
with your main phone? and also probably have to bring two charging cables as
well, 1 usb-c and 1 micro-usb for your old phone. can you honestly see
everybody doing this?

2) that only makes sense if you have 1 pair of headphones. if you have say
headphones and earbuds then you either have to buy two dongles or else
remember to swap it, which you will eventually forget at some point. if you
want to listen to music in your car reliably then you will need to buy one for
there as well

4) ive been using bluetooth in my car since its been available and its better
in some ways and worse in others. a few android updates in the past have
caused problems and i couldnt connect for months until the next update was
released. currently my phone connects ok to my car stereo the first time, but
if i stop the car and start it again there is nearly always connection issues
and i have to turn bt on/off to get it working again and try various other
things. if this what you mean by adapting to change? yea im definitely getting
good at fixing it at this stage but its a bit much to expect others to go
through the learning process

just pretending the adapter is part of the cable doesnt help much when you
want to charge your phone and the port is being used by your headphones

you mentioned "great" options? you clearly havnt put too much thought into
this but you got to complain about people complaining which is probably the
main reason for your comment.

ps. as others have stated, taking away useful features is not innovation

------
svantana
> Apple ditched the 3.5 mm headphone jack in the iPhone 7 for a Lightning
> connector

If this had only been the case, I would have been happy. Then we would have
had two lightning ports on the phone, which would have been nice. No, all they
did was take away a port, similarly to the 15" macbook pro, where they went
from 8 ports to 5. A very sad trend IMO.

------
deniska
15 years ago most phones didn't have a 3.5 jack and you had to have a dongle.
I don't want to go back to that time.

~~~
tpxl
Curious, what did they have then? As far as I can remember, my two first
phones around 14 and 12 years ago both had headphone jacks.

------
timvisee
The primary reason I want it back, is because audio though the jack of has
usually been of better quality than audio though Bluetooth with another DAC.
The difference can be enormous. Therefore it feels as a big downgrade to me.

And don't forget that all these USB C and wireless options are possible
without removing the jack at all.

------
cm2187
One thing I don't understand is that if the port size is really a problem, why
don't the big tech companies agree on a smaller format?

The same applies to ethernet. Pretty much all laptops have dropped the
ethernet port, mostly because it too bulky for modern formats. Why can't they
simply agree on another socket?

~~~
kazen44
in ethernet's case, having another connector would be useless because all the
other devices still use good old rj45.

RJ45 connectors are in terms of their size, already not that large considering
the size of the cable they deal with. (CAT cable is far larger then a 3.5mm
headphone cable).

~~~
cm2187
It doesn't matter what the other device uses, all you need is cables
terminating with the new socket. Like mini and micro usb cables.

A typical RJ45 female socket is more than the height of a modern laptop.

------
kozak
We need a powerbank with a built-in Bluetooth to 3.5 mm audio interface.
People tend to carry a powerbank around anyway, and having the Bluetooth thing
built into it will ensure that this device will never run out of battery. Yes
it's going to be a niche product, but some people will love it a lot.

------
baldfat
This isn't important to most people and it is just an annoyance.

All of my devices have a headphone jack, BECAUSE I buy my devices with a
headphone jack.

I have a LG V20 which had the best headphone jack on the market. People didn't
buy it. People don't care about headphone jacks enough to buy headphone jacks
in devices.

------
vkoskiv
I cannot use wireless headphones. The battery on them dies within 15-20
minutes in sub-zero temperatures.

------
whizzkid
I would definitely understand if we were at a stage where AirPods battery
would last half a year but we are not.

Battery-less cable beats wireless 2 hours of talk time quiet easily.

Wireless is the correct path but it was too early to get rid of the working
standard without having a better alternative in my opinon.

------
acd
3.5 Audio jacks are standard, just like the USB charging cable is a standard.
Not using 3.5 audio jacks, leads to tremendous amounts of industrial waste in
the form of old head phones with proprietary connectors.

I think it would be better if cellphones had both 3.5mm jacks and Bluetooth.

------
Animats
Next, get rid of the USB jack and get 100% hermetically sealed units? Apple
already has Qi charging.

~~~
bkjones
They could get rid of the screen, too, and call it iBrick.

The iBrick can still run truly side-effect free programs.

------
awkward
One of the big reasons given was to make a slimmer phone, but I've got the
iPhone SE I use personally here next to the iPhone 7 I use for work, and, if
you were to run your hand over them, you wouldn't detect a difference in
height off the table.

~~~
asdff
I believe the 7 was the slimmest iPhone. The notch phones are noticeably
heavier as well.

------
caberus
i love "my not so expensive and average quality" earphones. i simply plug it
my iphone 6s, then my work laptop and when i'm home i use it while gaming with
my MBP 2015. i sometimes forgot them in my pocket and find them while ironing
my pants; they smell good, look very clean and work like a charm when i plug
in to my phone. if i lose them or somehow they don't work, i can buy the same
for a few bucks. if i want i can use a cool bluetooth earphones but i really
don't want, and moreover i really don't want to be force to do so

------
wetpaws
There is an easy solution to this problem. Not bying smartphones without a
3.5mm jack. So simple, so straightforward, and yet people complaining but
still pretty much voting for being abused with their wallet.

------
paveln
Am I the only one that had issues with headphone jacks on multiple devices,
from multiple headphones, with audio either not working at all or working on
one channel only until I rotate the jack for awhile?

------
torgian
I would miss the headphone jack if I ever bother upgrading my iPhone. As it
is, I use my Bluetooth headphones a lot at home. Noise canceling and no cord
is pretty nice.

But for very good audio I use my normal sennheisers

------
fyfy18
When Apple first removed the headphone jack I was a big opponent of what they
had done. It didn't affect me personally though, as I had an old laptop and
phone both with headphone jacks and no plans to upgrade. Still I was quite
vocal about how stupid it was to remove them.

At the time I was working at home, and had an old set of Sennheiser headphones
with a 3m long cable that I usually used for music. Occasionally I'd end up
tangled up in the cable, all attempts to prevent it failed. For calls I had a
cheap Sennheiser headset which did the trick, and did (what I thought was) a
pretty decent job of blocking out noise when travelling.

Earlier this year I went back to the office, and needed some noise cancelling
headphones, so got Sony MDR-1000X which are Bluetooth. The noise cancelling
really puts the old headset I had to shame, when on an aircraft if I play
light music I literally can't hear any outside noise. They are comfortable to
wear all the time (a few times in summer my ears did get a bit sweaty) and I
usually charge them once or a maximum twice a week, even though I'm using them
most of the day. When they say they are low I still get a few hours usage, so
just put them on charge at lunch when it first warns me.

Compared to my old headphones the noise quality is about the same, but these
have built in volume and track controls, and a microphone. Bluetooth just
works for me, and the range is not a problem. I can easily have my phone on
one side of my apartment, and listen to music on the other. I have them paired
with my phone and computer, and can easily switch the source without major
issues. It just works (apart from some weird Linux bug where it uses the wrong
audio profile, but on other OSes it's fine).

A few months ago I got a new phone and it didn't come with an audio jack. I
tried to find one that did, but this had the best specs for what I wanted, so
it was a sacrifice I would have to make. The phone come with a dongle, but I
haven't even removed it from the packaging in the box. I just haven't needed
it, and don't care that it's gone.

Same thing on my laptop, it has an audio jack (output only) but I don't care
if it's removed as I never use it now. On my PC I had to buy a cheapo USB
sound card as the built in audio jack had lots of static, so I don't really
care if that's removed either.

Bluetooth is good enough, it's just going to be a while until a $15 set of
Bluetooth earphones are at a similar quality level to a $15 set of wired
earphones. I do agree the execution could have been done better by Apple (e.g.
lightning headphones, which you can't use on all Apple hardware) and it was
possibly a bit premature, but eventually we would have reached this point.

As for the so called audiophiles who need it, wouldn't you be better off with
an external soundcard, rather than relying on whatever $0.50 chip the
manufacturer can find?

~~~
PavlovsCat
Well, I don't like the pushiness of it. Just take how this story dropped off
the front page like a brick. If someone slapped me on the butt or head and
said "hey there, you look like you really want some nice ice cream", even if I
actually were up for ice cream, I would lose my currently existing appetite
for ice cream until the memory of that creep has faded.

It doesn't matter if someone else accepts being treated that way, or didn't
quite catch what is going on.

I also don't like how the general shift to selling experiences and status
symbols instead of tools. The sheer inability to leave people alone and in
peace with what works for them, _just because_ it some marketing people have
an idea how to get them to "engage" some more and buy more stuff. For example
it's kinda nuts that laptops and smartphones are advertised with how thing
they are, they're thin enough either way. In a context of humanity hardly even
beginning to address the problems our consumerism caused, this is all just
lethal circus. All that went on before the removal of the headphone jack, but
that is part of it.

Since the Iraq war I avoid flying when I can, even before climate change
became scary real, of _course_ I'll avoid products of companies whose
attitudes are incompatible with a rational marketplace. Because either that
will end, or humanity will end. Just like I don't rely on a $0.50 chip, I
don't rely on the "ideas" of equivalent thinkers, or the "awareness" of the
mass of people.

> this had the best specs for what I wanted, so it was a sacrifice I would
> have to make

Well, to me that is entirely backwards. Customers are looking for something,
but are denied that thing because companies have other "visions" _for_ them.
People find the story interesting and it garners a lot of votes quickly, so it
is dropped to the second page just like that... Nothing spells "courage" like
that kind of stuff. I just checked, just in the time it took me to write this
it dropped from the middle of the second to the third page, but still managed
to garner more votes. If the companies treat their fanbases as children and
they end up acting like this on their behalf, flagging and downvoting what
they don't want to hear, and/or if the companies themselves fuck with online
discussions and the consumers look the other way, I'm against it by default
either way, before we could possibly get to any technical details.

In short, there is a difference between a good reason for something, and a
rationalization of something that was pushed onto you. Yes, I also use an
external soundcard and like wireless headphones, but not for mobile devices,
and the discussion isn't about "why did most people buy devices withouth
headphone jacks once those became available _too_ ", this is about things
being pushed unilaterally, for sheer profit.

~~~
fyfy18
> Well, to me that is entirely backwards. Customers are looking for something,
> but are denied that thing because companies have other "visions" for them

I don't think that is really fair. If I really needed a headphone jack, I
could have got a new phone with one, but one of my requirements which was more
important than a headphone jack was price, so it was a trade off I was happy
to make. Maybe if you want to stay in the Apple ecosystem you are out of luck,
but this is the sort of thing Apple has always done (floppy drive, optical
drive, soldered ram, battery). If you want to stick with their ecosystem, you
should be willing to follow whatever they decide is best - it should be
expected from them. You could argue it is wrong, but from a financial
perspective it is most definitely working, and many people are still willing
to support them.

On a similar note earlier this year I switched (around the same time as I got
the Bluetooth headphones) from an Apple laptop to a Thinkpad laptop. I
couldn't justify the price increases and limitations Apple has put in-place in
a quest for thinness, and the way MacOS seems to be heading. For nearly half
the price of a new Macbook Air (the previous gen), I got a new machine which
is more powerful, has better battery life, has more ports, is smaller (in
area, not thickness) and lighter. For the work I do, Linux provides a much
more friendly developer environment than MacOS.

(For me this post is still #6 on the front page)

~~~
PavlovsCat
I wasn't speaking of just Apple though, that desire to "lock in" is very
common. It took actual regulation in the EU get get unified charging cables.
Customers should be ahead of regulation in protecting their own interests.

> You could argue it is wrong, but from a financial perspective it is most
> definitely working

By that point you're arguing squarely on behalf of the bank account of the
company, the customer is completely removed. They are just someone who "should
be willing to follow whatever they decide is best", even if it's just best for
the company profits, which in the case of Apple they kinda hoard.

> many people are still willing to support them

If that makes my opinion invalid, by the same token my opinion makes theirs
invalid. Since I have my opinion, the fact that people assume the position as
a helpless consumer, rather than a equal in a fair transaction, be it with
Apple or others, is the problem, not the solution.

> (For me this post is still #6 on the front page)

Yes, that was shortly after my comment, but before that it dropped _really_
quickly, down to page 3.

------
rs23296008n1
Bluetooth is great until it isn't. Settings get lost. Drivers need updating.
Pairing gets confused. Congested environments can lock you out. You need to
power cycle the device.

All solved with a cable.

------
yk
Clearly the solution is not going back to a 3.5 mm audio jack, but to invent a
new standard that everybody will support. We could alsa call it pulse jack and
audio will be fixed forever.

~~~
easytiger
Not going to happen until Apple stop being ridiculous

------
SonicSoul
hmm my 65 year old dad figured out bluetooth pairing with his car, and a JBL
speaker i got him, BUT takes 10 minutes of fiddling around with car menus to
pair my phone when im borrowing the car, AND when you pair more than one
device to the speaker, there's no easy way to switch other than going to
bluetooth menu and finding the device (re-pairing each time).

i wish it was proximity aware and just chose the nearest device instead of
trying to connect to most recent or nothing at all.

------
randyrand
I still use an iphone with a headphone jack, but when the time comes I think
the solution is to buy a bunch of dongles that dangle (hah) from every
headphone cord I have.

------
Overtonwindow
Been hanging on to my 6 Plus for dear life for this very reason

------
yoz-y
A heretical idea would be to actually have two lightning or USB-C ports on the
device.

No ports is a more probable future for the phones but I could see something
like this on an iPad.

------
gsich
I find all reasons for ditching it excuses. "Water proof" \- no, there are
devices that can do both.

I would have been fine with this, if we would get 2 USB-C connectors then.

------
KevanM
I bought a new TV recently and it still has a headphone socket and no option
for bluetooth.

I would find it more useful to have a Bluetooth headset for my TV than I would
for my phone.

------
arvinsim
The irony in all of this is that while trying to push for a wireless and one
universal port(USB-C), we ended up with more cables, dongles and adapters than
before.

------
exodust
I like headphone jacks. They're small, harmless, useful, and work easily. A
good idea would be to put them in a phone for customer and listener
convenience.

------
peterwwillis
I'm still pining for my old brick phone, where I could text with the phone
still in my pocket, the battery lasted for a week, and the signal was strong.

------
consultSKI
Answer: Samsung Galaxy phones with better waterproofing IP68 vs. IP67 and they
did it WITH a headphone jack. I expect S10 will also have 5G NR plus OS 9

------
danmg
Someone should make a high end smart phone geared toward audiophiles that has
a 1/2" jack and an interface to plug in a tube amp.

------
intended
I just need the headline. This is 100% what I wish I had in my damn phones.

------
mackrevinack
im nowhere near elderly and have been using bluetooth in my car and with
headphones for years and I still run into trouble a lot of the time. its just
not ready yet

------
KiDD
_stares at Ember mug in hand_ You don't know me!

------
thedudeabides5
"arg, hold on one second, I can't find my headphone dongle"

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU)

------
d--b
iPhone SE:

\- It’s got the jack plug \- I can type with one thumb \- it doesn’t bend in
my pocket \- it’s way cheaper

I can’t think of anything the X has I am missing on the SE.

------
brennankreiman
Headphone jack, water resistance, pick one.

------
Noxmiles
Just buy a phone with a headphone jack.

------
unixhero
Well! Buy the Galaxy S9 then. Easy.

~~~
mattnewton
I really wish it was a comparable product. My SO had absolutely terrible
support experiences with them and I don’t want to buy a phone with preloaded
NFL or 3 email apps again

~~~
unixhero
Sounds like a Carrier problem, not a Samsung issue.

We don't get that in Europe. The phone is smoking.

------
wickedOne
apple ditched the floppy drive with the release of their g3 hardware, the
ethernet port with the macbook air (and built in cd/dvd drive), before that
they ditched the serial & parallel port, etc.

any of us still missing those?

needless to say that it kinda sucks when a new device forces you to buy new
adapters / peripherals, but in the long run, is this really an issue?

~~~
whiddershins
As I mentioned in another comment, those were computer standards. 3.5mm is an
audio standard. It's an important difference.

~~~
tuananh
standard comes and go. ethernet is not a standard anymore these days.

heck even if my laptop comes with a ethernet port, i still couldn't use it at
my workplace.

------
buboard
Why not instead use the 3.5mm standard for serial port and charging capability
as well? now that would make a lot of people happy

------
pranav7
What a well-articulated piece!

------
grpsisgood
Why bother? I won't buy iphone anymore

------
glogla
So you're okay with hurting other people, especially the elderly, disabled and
poor, because you get something.

I guess admitting that takes "courage" as well?

~~~
dang
This comment broke the site guidelines by being an uncivil personal attack,
and by not doing this:

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone
says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

We ban accounts that don't follow the guidelines, so please review
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
and do so from now on.

------
starik36
"Without a doubt, even from the vantage of today, 2016 will go down as one of
the saddest sack years in recent history. A reality show billionaire was
elected president."

Right off the bat, in the first paragraph, with an unnecessary political
statement. Turns off half the audience right there. Everything said thereafter
is taken with a giant grain of salt.

Is this person living in such a bubble that he can't have a conversation
without mentioning Trump?

~~~
asdff
No, but the editor insisted on some SEO.

------
Kiro
Meanwhile normal people outside the tech and HN bubble have moved on and
forgot what a headphone jack is.

~~~
arvinsim
Citation needed.

~~~
rkul
"By now, we forgot what a headphone jack even is." (People outside tech and HN
bubble, 2018)

------
notatoad
Apple, and all the other phone companies on board with this, seem to have made
the gamble that there's a whole bunch of other stuff people care about more
than headphone jacks. And they seem to have been right.

I don't miss my headphone jack - my phone still has one. If people really
wanted headphone jacks, they'd buy phones with headphone jacks. But if you
care more about the social stigma of having a blue bubble in iMessage or being
seen with a previous-gen phone, I guess you're stuck with no choice but to
complain.

