
A 15-year-old weightlifting prodigy - kareemm
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lebron-james-of-weightlifting-1440371008?mod=e2fb
======
juddlyon
This is really cool to see an American with such potential.

The explosion of Crossfit is exposing a lot of people to Olympic lifting.
However, Crossfit's programming can be incredibly dangerous - encouraging Joe
Sixpack to do such complex and technical lifts "AMRAP" (As Many Reps as
Possible) is a recipe for serious injury. Source: I got rhabdo and was nearly
hospitalized.

~~~
mathattack
Barbells = Good.

Cult of Work Past Exhaustion = Injuries.

~~~
IkmoIkmo
The other horrible part (besides exhaustion) is that I see so many people with
horrible form on the first rep when they're totally fresh, nowhere close to
exhaustion, and the trainer just screams '1, 2, 3!' etc, as opposed to 'dude
holdup, here's what you're doing wrong'.

And this isn't just at local small shitty gyms which couldn't find decent
trainers and are run by a novice trainer...

I mean if you want to laugh and cry and watch a slightly offensive video,
check this out: [http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22p3g0_deadlifts-from-
the-...](http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22p3g0_deadlifts-from-the-washed-
up-loser-olympics_fun)

If you have no time, just check the single lift that starts at 2:30, and
consider that the judges passed it, and that they passed it according to the
rules of the crossfit event. I mean that's criminal negligence if you ask me!

~~~
mathattack
Yes. Lift to exhaustion encourages poor form, which in turn encourages
injuries. One size fits all also encourages injuries. It's just stupid. It's
one thing getting hurt in something like football or jiu jitsu where it's part
of the sport, but weightlifting shouldn't have such a high injury rate.

------
steve-howard
There are a few of reasons that powerlifting (squat/bench/deadlift) is more
popular than weightlifting (Snatch/Clean and Jerk). The technique is much
harder to learn for the explosive lifts, as the bar and lifter must move very
fast for the lift to work at all. Olympic lifts generally require bumper
plates (significantly more expensive than iron), though it is possible if
painful to lower the weights back to the floor. And there is a much bigger
genetic component to your limitations in explosive lifts than in the slower
ones; the fraction of your deadlift that you can clean is very difficult to
improve.

That said, if you can get the technique down (internet coaching or otherwise)
it's a wonderful feeling to rack a power clean.

~~~
vidarh
Power cleans are great, but they also feel massively simpler than clean and
jerk. I picked up power cleans on my own, but I don't know if I'd dare try to
teach myself clean and jerk without a coach.

EDIT: It also really annoyed me to see how they described power lifting vs.
oly. As if you don't need core and leg strength and for deadlifts and squats.
And for that matter most power lifters will practice additional lifts like
overhead press too (or power cleans..)

~~~
x0x0
Yeah, it is very annoying -- perhaps they just talked to an oly lifter?

    
    
       For power lifters, the measure of an athlete is how much he can bench 
       press—something not included in Olympic competitions.
    

That's just flat out not true, and not something anyone familiar with
powerlifting would say, except perhaps in a pejorative sense. For those of you
who may be unfamiliar, the standard measure of a powerlifter is your total:
the combined single rep maximum in three attempts of your squat, bench, and
deadlift.

~~~
Thriptic
Yeah unless you're Eric Spoto the bench press contributes by far the least to
your total. Powerlifters and olympic lifters also typically have deep respect
for each other, as there is a broad intersection between the two sports.

------
IkmoIkmo
Definitely not going to be a medal in Rio, that's now less than 1 year away
and he's totalling just under 300kg, when the bronze in 2012 took a total of
332kg alone, and everyone who's lifting in the 330 range is about 20 years
old. He'll make gains but I think it'll be too early for him at 16 to win a
medal. (like his trainer said).

In 2016, very possible. He's definitely well on his way. I think the main
thing to know is that he's not just a US nationals champ at his age (a country
who won 0 WL medals at the olympics in 2012, i.e. not super significant). But
rather that at his age, he is the nr 1 ranked in the world by the
international weightlifting federation. 20 people lift more than he does, but
they're all older by at least 1 full year (and others well into their 30s by
now). One can wonder if he has what it takes to increase by 35-40kg in the
next 5 years. He added as much over the last 12 months, but of course it gets
exponentially more difficult as you go up. On paper it looks like he can do it
but 5 years of dedication is a long time, and it's likely that he'll have to
jump a weight division as he grows into an adolescent body. We'll have to see!

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temuze
Here's a video of him putting 331 lbs over his head...

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v8OexNKrug](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v8OexNKrug)

At the age of 14. Most people can't deadlift that. This kid's a prodigy.

~~~
perfTerm
I'm sure if you do it safely that's fine, but boy does that look dangerous to
me. Awesome feat for anyone, really pretty unbelievable for a 14 year old.

~~~
comrh
I thought I remember reading that lifting can hurt young, growing bones but I
would also imagine this kid's couches and parents are educated on it.

~~~
zzygan
Definitely a myth. [http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/phys-ed-the-
benefit...](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/phys-ed-the-benefits-of-
weight-training-for-kids/?_r=0) Study Review:
[http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/5/e1199.ab...](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/126/5/e1199.abstract)

~~~
toddkazakov
I wouldn't be so sure about it. In those references people aren't lifting
300lbs, right?

~~~
vidarh
They aren't that well trained either. And most well trained people will never
clean and jerk 300+lbs. Even if every single kid who tried a 300lbs+ clean and
jerk died from it on the spot, that still wouldn't make enough of a dent to
make lifting a high risk sport.

The thing worth keeping in mind that people forget when questioning whether
kids should lift, is that kids lift, or try to lift large percentages of their
body weight to failure all the time during normal play. They have a training
capacity and recovery ability that makes me insanely jealous as someone who's
turned 40.

If lifting the weights they are physically able to is dangerous for them, then
so is a lot of their regular playing.

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bcassedy
Man this is very cool to see. I know part of the reason the US has been
traditionally been subpar at Olympic Weightlifting is the lack of emphasis at
the youth level. That said, my understanding is American coaches are leagues
behind the rest of the world in understanding how to train oly lifters.
Hopefully this kid has a good coach.

~~~
phowat
And also the USADA is much stricter in testing for PEDs than the WADA. The
countries which dominate weightlifting are pretty heavy into PEDs and american
olympic lifters (and from other countries, like Germany) will always be at a
disadvantage in international competitions. I'm not saying this is the only
reason, and your points are also valid, but this is a pretty big deal too.

~~~
rquantz
To paraphrase Mark Rippetoe, when you say these foreign athletes are better
because they take PEDs, what you're saying is that they are stronger than
American weightlifters. One of the problems with American weightlifting
training, as Rip argues, anyway, is an overemphasize on technique, and not
enough work on basic strength.

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kevindeasis
If this guy would just open source his diet and routine that would be great. I
wanna see how hard it is to copy his habits

~~~
wdewind
One of the interesting things about high level athletes is that their routines
are often terrible and they are succeeding in spite of not because of them.
People with even an intermediate understanding of weightlifting and program
design can easily point out massive flaws in many top NCAA and professional
training routines. The philosophy tends to be when you are working with
monsters it's better not to break them than it is to train hard and risk
injury (which I think is idiotic and ultimately leads to _far_ more injuries,
but who am I to say). So looking at this guy's routine probably wouldn't help
you anyway.

As for diet, the vast majority of a professional athlete's diet comes down to
getting enough protein and carbs, with minor tweaks for individuals around
things like meal timing, micronutrient content and fiber content. A great
place to start for a 200lbs male is 220g protein/250g carbs/50g fat/30g fiber.

Sorry I know that's a disappointing answer, but I can tell you the real answer
isn't that much more interesting. Elite level athletes certainly work
_incredibly_ hard, but great genes are still a prerequisite.

~~~
onan_barbarian
People with a "intermediate understanding of weightlifting and program design"
have a long history of not having the faintest clue what they are talking
about. Given how frequently fashions have shifted over the past 20-30 years,
the armchair experts can't have _all_ been right about whose routines are
"terrible" and contain "massive flaws". Plyos or no plyos? O-lifts? HIT?
Bodybuilding? Draw-ins, bracing, stabilization or old fashioned situps? Linear
or non-linear periodization? 4-times a day training or "lots of rest"?

It's almost like there might be multiple ways of doing this stuff and that a
lot of it doesn't matter nearly as much as people think, especially in a
population that has to play a ton of their actual sport.

A lot of this IMO stems from confusing two populations, to wit: "elite
athletes who are already beastly strong and conditioned, and training skills
on a near full-time basis" and "the pool of perennial beginners/intermediates
who make up the vast majority of sport science study populations, internet
fora and personal training $$$".

~~~
wdewind
I think I mostly agree with your sentiments about armchair experts, but I
think you're giving the professional sports industry way too much credit.
There are things reasonable people disagree about when it comes to training
(you did a good job listing them), but there are also a lot of things that are
pretty uncontroversially stupid happening (texans banning all squats from the
weight room, for instance).

> It's almost like there might be multiple ways of doing this stuff and that a
> lot of it doesn't matter nearly as much as people think, especially in a
> population that has to play a ton of their actual sport.

This is certainly true especially in skill sports like basketball and even to
an extent like football. In strength sports like weightlifting and
powerlifting you don't actually see a ton of variation in program design.

> A lot of this IMO stems from confusing two populations, to wit: "elite
> athletes who are already beastly strong and conditioned, and training skills
> on a near full-time basis" and "the pool of perennial
> beginners/intermediates who make up the vast majority of sport science study
> populations, internet fora and personal training $$$".

I think there's a lot of truth in that, but I still hold to my point that a
lot of pro athletes are doing demonstrably suboptimal programming and winning
in spite of not because of their programming.

~~~
jdhawk
> texans banning all squats from the weight room, for instance

Hu? I know Dan Riley does not like squats, but he uses several different
alternatives and still says that they can be effective if you're built
properly for them.

~~~
wdewind
Yeah, I meant barbell squats. Dan Riley's school of thought is extremely
1980s/1990s and does not reflect the "state of the art" in terms of strength
training. He advocates using machine based squats, which greatly decrease the
training usefulness of the movements. This is because they both isolate the
movement to one plane, and limit the number of muscles involved in the
movement. A linebacker hitting another linebacker is essentially a back squat,
and in real life this happens in multiple planes and with all of your muscles.
There is no advantage to using a machine, and many disadvantages.

In one piece[1] Dan says things like "To minimize shearing forces on the knee,
we ask our players to keep the knees over the ankles in the squatting
position."

This demonstrates (along with many other idiotic things he says in that piece)
a relatively massive misunderstanding of biomechanics and is kind of
disgraceful to hear coming from someone who is a strength coach for people
paid millions of dollars a year.

[http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/fanzone/installment48...](http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/fanzone/installment48.pdf)

------
balls187
Curious why the article's title is "The LeBron James of Weightlifting" when
the USA Weightlifting Exec was quoted as saying "The Michael Jordan of
Weightlifting?"

~~~
differentView
The 50-something coach said Michael Jordan, meaning the best. The writer just
updated it to the best basketball player right now, same meaning.

~~~
e40
There's a scene, one of my favorites, in The Wire, where a gang member goes
into a hardware store to buy a nail gun. He asks an older, white sales dude to
give him the skinny on the nail guns on display. The sales guy picks up one
and says it's the Cadillac of nail guns. He buys it and goes out to the SUV
where his compatriot is waiting, where he tells his co-worker that he got the
Lexus of nail guns.

Here's the scene:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpvkwBBu6U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpvkwBBu6U)

~~~
adamtj
She, not he. The gang member in this case is a woman.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicia_Pearson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felicia_Pearson)

~~~
comrh
Snoop!

------
Laaw
Article is behind paywall. :-/

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MikaHakkinnen12
Come on, guys. This is Hackernews.

In no way this is related to what this site is about. There're hundreds of
site where stuff like this is supposed to be posted and discussed.

I wouldn't care if I wouldn't need to read to all those cs and startup
unrelated headlines.

~~~
TDL
For the record, there is a large number of long time users to this site that
are very serious about lifting in general. Furthermore, as it's been
repeatedly stated, articles that are submitted to HN are what interest the
community and many members of this community are interested in lifting.

~~~
Dramatize
Really? I didn't know there were many lifters on here. Weightlifting or
powerlifting?

I've been powerlifting for the last 2 years with the goal to be stronger at 40
years than I was at 30.

~~~
vidarh
Powerlifting for 10 here. Just hit 40, and I'm stronger than I've ever been.
What scared me into seriously exercising when I hit 30 was that it started
being painful for me to walk up a single flight of stairs, and when I went to
my doctor she looked at me with utter disdain and handed me a sheet of basic
bodyweight exercises and sent me packing...

Now my 1RM squat is 192.5kg / 424lbs and my knees never give me trouble any
more.

I think quite a few of us get into lifting partly because we need something to
counteract the damage office jobs and sedentary lifestyles out of work do, and
partly because it's something that fits the hacker mindset - weight lifting,
whether oly or powerlifting or body building, lets you endlessly tweak
programs and diets and measure results fairly precisely.

