
Modern life is lonely – We all need someone to help - dijit
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/16/modern-life-lonely-isolation-hardwired-lives
======
grondilu
Lately I've become more and more convinced that indeed, modern society sucks,
or at the very least that I, and people like me, am not well equipped to
flourish in it. I'm sure some people are though, but I suspect they are
becoming the minority.

Few days ago I also read Ted Kaczynski's essay[1], and it's hard for me not to
acknowledge how right he is on many points.

However, I do believe it is possible to survive all this, and that stoicism is
a way. Kaczynski wrote for instance :

"It is true that primitive man is powerless against some of the things that
threaten him; disease for example. But he can accept the risk of disease
stoically. It is part of the nature of things, it is no one’s fault, unless it
is the fault of some imaginary, impersonal demon. But threats to the modern
individual tend to be MAN-MADE. They are not the results of chance but are
IMPOSED on him by other persons whose decisions he, as an individual, is
unable to influence. Consequently he feels frustrated, humiliated and angry."

Is it not possible for the modern man to accept the drawbacks of modern life,
including loneliness, just as stoically as the primitive man was accepting
adversity and death? Whether adversity is man-made or "natural" should not
matter for the individual. From the stoic point of view, in each case it is
just an external factor.

It seems to me that as long as someone understands what is happening to him,
he can make his mind at peace with it, whatever it is. Was it not after all
one of the lessons of Epictetus, that what matters is not so much what happens
to us, but how we react to it? That as long as we are ready for the worst, we
can not really be troubled by it?

1\. [http://editions-hache.com/essais/pdf/kaczynski2.pdf](http://editions-
hache.com/essais/pdf/kaczynski2.pdf)

~~~
madaxe_again
It’s also possible to live differently. I played the stoic for decades until
the isolation of being a business owner living in a city pushed me over the
brink.

I’ve struggled with loneliness my entire life - and adult life has been worse
than childhood. I started boarding school at six - and while I was homesick
for some time, the camaraderie of other inmates, uh, students, was the only
thing that kept me mildly sane - I had people to look out for and protect, and
similarly people looked out for and protected me.

As an adult, I’ve unwittingly repeatedly chosen lonely paths - moving
frequently for several years before settling down and starting a business. I
spent my days surrounded by people with nobody to relate to - I can be
friendly with employees and clients, but I can’t be friends. I can’t confide
about what worries me.

Either way, I broke - I spent most of 2016 having anxiety attacks that’d see
me vomit for weeks on end, to the extent that I ended up hospitalised several
times with severe dehydration and hypoglycaemia. I passed on the reins and
left.

I now live on the edge of a village in the middle of nowhere north wales. I
have drinks or go for walks with with my 93 and 84 year old neighbours most
days. I’ve made friends with all sorts, just by saying hello to folks as they
walk past the cottage.

My financial future is uncertain - but as I write this I am so happy it brings
tears to my eyes.

We’ve really forgotten what’s important - and there’s a story about a chap
called Midas that we could all do to learn a thing or two from.

~~~
1_player
Thanks for this, the first half of the comment perfectly sums up my last few
years.

I've moved out of London to try and live a more comfortable and less hectic
life in a smaller city, now I find I'm so alone I want to move back to the
city just to be with my friends.

I'd love to be in the middle of nowhere, or anywhere else in the world, but
the "friends" problem is always so understated. I _need_ friends(hip), or I
don't function. Even as an "antisocial" person, as my friends like to say,
friendship is the most important thing in life.

Funnily, the fact that I'm being productive while a big part of myself is just
a huge hole is impressive in itself.

~~~
WillReplyfFood
It feels like beeing a black hole, with a thin crust of human on top,
sometimes it hurts so much, that you can allmost hear a sucking, swirling
sound.

------
blowski
Personally, going to Church has helped me suffer less with loneliness. I've
made meaningful friendships, and relationships with people from all sorts of
backgrounds. It has given more meaning to my life than anything I found at
work, or by random socialising.

Of course, YMMV. Please take this as a random anecdote, not as evangelism.

~~~
mwang
I know a few people who have suggested attending a Unitarian Church
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism))
as a way to get the social benefits of church without having to subscribe to a
religious belief. Many congregations include atheists and agnostics.

~~~
toomuchtodo
There is also Sunday Assembly:
[https://www.sundayassembly.com/](https://www.sundayassembly.com/)

"The Sunday Assembly was started by Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans, two
comedians who were on the way to a gig in Bath when they discovered they both
wanted to do something that was like church but totally secular and inclusive
of all—no matter what they believed."

~~~
hkmurakami
Had no idea such a thing existed. Thanks for the information.

------
mikeokner
I think a large part of the problem is that the younger generations have grown
up with pretty strong expectations placed upon them to do things like go to
college (at whatever cost), land a white collar job, climb the ladder, etc.

The obvious solution is to own your decisions and start doing what _you_ think
is right for you, but it's far easier said than done to step out from under
the expectations you've been saddled with your entire life.

~~~
Bartweiss
Expectations and also demands; as the precariat grows, and the unnecessariat
under it, there's steadily more risk to striking out on one's own.

Certainly a six-figure salary is not necessary for happiness, but if you find
yourself working long hours to make rent in some midwestern town it's going to
cut into your opportunities for self-discovery and joy. And if you got wise a
bit too late, after picking up federal student loans, you might well find that
your dream career is genuinely off the table. (Found your true calling as a
firefighter? Better keep up on those loans or you'll lose your license.)

It seems like we've created a system where the straight-and-narrow is
increasingly narrow, and the cliffs around it are increasingly high. It's
still worth finding one's own path, but in both social and purely-practical
terms it's gotten steadily harder.

~~~
77pt77
> It seems like we've created a system where the straight-and-narrow is
> increasingly narrow, and the cliffs around it are increasingly high. It's
> still worth finding one's own path, but in both social and purely-practical
> terms it's gotten steadily harder.

On the one hand yes, on the other hand mobility at every level has never been
greater, even if still not at the optimal level.

~~~
dota_fanatic
Can you provide some evidence for this claim? Inequality has grown pretty
systematically since the '70s, and though I don't have the link, there was a
study recently demonstrating that it's harder to move up than it was for our
parent's parents...

------
RandomInteger4
Best solution to loneliness is to gain massive debt, become dirt poor, and
battle daily with attention deficit issues while you struggle to learn and
become productive enough to get a job in the software industry with a pretty
horrible work history, an incomplete bachelors, and a near worthless
associates.

Living one rung lower on Maslow's hierarchy makes you forget about the desire
to be around people, or even leave the house (father's) all that often (2% of
the time).

Granted, I think maybe my concern for my health (irrational or not) has been
exacerbated, so I've traded loneliness for frequent panic attacks concerning
whether or not I might have cancer or a heart defect. On the plus side, I know
for a fact that I've torn back muscles weight lifting, so all I really need is
the medicaid office to get back to me after submitting my 4th application with
no phone calls or emails as to my status.

~~~
mattmanser
Ouch. Hope it gets better.

Have you tried subreddits like
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Anxiety/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anxiety/),
/r/offmychest/, or something like 7 cups of tea?

As the story relates, we're more like to offer practical advice here on HN
rather than the emotional support you probably need right now.

It does, honestly, get better. You're making the right moves, even if it does
all look desperate right now.

~~~
RandomInteger4
Danke. I'm cool for the most part right now. I've come to embrace my anxiety
to an extent. If I'm able to type, then that means it's mostly not affecting
me at the moment. Late night just has me feeling a lack of inhibition and dis-
concern for my privacy on these matters.

As far as caffeine goes, I don't know what I'd do without it. Up until
recently I was on 2 doses of 3 cups (measurement unit) of espresso per day,
but I've realized that I needed to up the dosage, or at least the source. So I
went down to 1 dose of 3 cups of espresso + 1 caffeine pill later on, 1
Monster Energy (lowest caffeine content of all my sources I believe), and 1
cup of green tea. This also has the side benefit of pain relief from the
muscle tear issues.

As for software development, I'm in the process of learning the ins and outs
of OAuth and OpenID Connect prior to implementing a sign up and login. Using
Node, so it seems like there is a wealth of tutorials out there for passport,
and apparently many of them are insecure (or so I've read), so I want to fully
understand the concepts behind the most commonly accepted as secure protocols
for Authorization and Authentication. Please correct me if I've said anything
gibberish; still learning.

~~~
mattmanser
Caffeine can cause anxiety, I gave it up for a while when I started suffering
from panic attacks and it helped. I was lucky that I had no withdrawl
headaches.

Also, sleep. Good sleep, a bit of regular exercise and a bit of a routine are
a great deal of help to stablizing your mood and anxieties.

OAuth and OpenID are completely, ridiculously, utterly, pathetically over-
complicated. It's one of the worst specs ever released. You do not need to
know it to be a professional developer. Most professional developers will have
no clue how it works. Trust me, I have over a decade of experience. If you can
get a plug and play library, I really would just do that. Especially while
learning development.

I mean, if you're enjoying it, go ahead, but OAuth is basically stupid. A
cruel joke inflicted on developers and a lesson in how not to make a spec.

~~~
RandomInteger4
Understood, and that's generally what I've been taking away from it, but I
have a mind towards security and while I don't need to fully understand it to
be a developer, I must understand it for my own purposes, as I would (1) feel
completely ashamed of myself for blindly following tutorials, especially on
this topic, and (2) would not want to adopt the liability that comes with
implementing an insecure system for a client that has a bigger wallet than me
and wants to crush me financially even further for making a mistake that
harmed their customers or business. Is such a scenario likely? I don't know;
doubtful, but still, I'd feel like an impostor.

Truthfully, the spec itself doesn't seem too difficult to understand; it's
mostly my inability to stay focused that causes me the problems I deal with
when studying and coding. Perhaps the true culprit of our times are browser
tabs; the more I have open, the more overwhelming it becomes to consume them.

As for caffeine and anxiety it's better than the depression that I feel with a
lack of caffeine. Caffeine also has a kind of analgesic effect, or rather
maybe the lack of caffeine causes me to have more pain in my spine for some
reason. Sleep isn't too difficult with chronic melatonin use. Your body never
adapts to melatonin as with other substances, so you can maintain the same
dose (5mg in my case) with consistent efficacy. I'm out within 30 minutes
after taking melatonin.

------
estebancastano
For the past year, I've been working on the social isolation problem. Here's
the idea we're currently developing. Would love to hear folks' feedback. Would
you be excited about using this?

"A social app, like Tinder but for hangouts with friends.

See what your friends want to do, and swipe right to show you’re interested.
You can also join hangouts in the global feed to instantly expand your social
circle. Hangouts are capped at 10 people so you can actually get to know each
other. Post things you want to do, like "Hike in John Muir". When 10 people
swipe right, a chat opens up so you can coordinate when to meet & who is down
to go."

~~~
rorykoehler
These ideas always ended up becoming dating apps in the past so the idea to
restrict it to your existing social circle is a smart one. I would consider
using it if it was well executed.

~~~
solarkraft
But what if I want to build one up? I think something like a dating app (but
not for dating) could work. You'd just have to do some a policing to avoid the
trend towards people trying to find love, since both apparently don't work
together.

------
unabst
We're paying the price for the proliferation of existentialism, and it's
flavor of capitalism and justice.

"You're on your own" is good when reaping rewards and thriving in a
meritocracy, but not when you need help, are losing, or just want warmth.

But a healthy dose of loneliness is what has us reaching for each other.

So we should all just give in, and reach for each other.

Natural feeling tend to take care of themselves, so long as we're capable of
being honest.

Of course, that's the other issue.

~~~
bbctol
How are you defining "existentialism" here?

~~~
unabst
"I think therefore I am." The essence that precedes the thought. "Our actions
are the outcome of our being."

The notion that success is reserved for the deserving, and criminals are
devils that require punishment. That there are good and bad people; good do
good, and bad do bad. All we need to do is sort them. And that all depends on
our individual essence, our free will.

Everything good pre-exists and we shall be the judge.

As opposed to,

"There are no actors, only actions" and "We are the sum of our actions."

"I think therefore I'm thinking."

"I committed a crime, got caught, and that is why I'm in jail."

"I witnessed his birth, I changed his diapers, I taught him how to walk, and
he follows me around. He must be my son."

I actually don't have the name for the latter philosophy. I really wish I
knew. It's along the lines of Nietzsche and Aristotle, but I can't say they
put their finger on it. Any pointers welcome.

It also holds the key:

"I'm lonely. And that's the only reason I need you by my side."

That's all we need.

~~~
bbctol
The latter philosophy is called, uh, existentialism, so I'm not sure quite
what happened here.

~~~
unabst
Then what flavor is it?

With one existence precedes all phenomena.

With the other phenomena precedes all existence.

------
50
I think I have suffered from loneliness before. A stomach-stabbing loneliness
really. No friends to truly communicate, going on car drives with no
destination/intention but to just think, walking in the evening hoping someone
would strike a conversation, etc. Though I find my loneliness usually arises
because I expect something different than what already is. Expecting something
different than what is is a way to suffer (accept what is, and you’re free?).
Consequently, I find that I must make a home out of this loneliness. You know
how when you move into a new place and you are organizing or reorganizing or
maybe decorationing your work station at home to make it feel comfortable and
home-y? Well, that’s what I think I had to do internally to make my loneliness
not loneliness. I suppose convert loneliness into solitude.

Then again, I have this vague thought that many people suffer from loneliness
(depression, etc) because of how we are raised, how society, culture,
civilization, have molded our minds. I think in modern day, consciousness is
everything. But because it’s an unknowable object, we ignore it or worse:
pretend it doesn’t exist. Consequently, we end up hard-headed in a matrix of
half-baked beliefs, lonely, depressed, fearful, and anxious. I don’t know, the
whole social order I think is set up in order to avoid the unknowable, if you
will, of what everything is. The idea that the radio is blaring at all times.
That we are all taught to listen to channels but never taught to turn it off
and listen to the silence. If only we were to listen we would see that from
the unknowable arises a reflection; the consciousness of everything, the I-am.
At this point, I think, sort of in the poverty of true humility, everything
that appears is seen as a miracle. The birds chirping in the morning is as
much of a miracle as being in the perfect spot in the knowable universe for
life to exist. The question then arises: Why is it that we remain deaf/blind
running around anxiously in the noise when pure consciousness is right here
out in the open all the time?

Above all: I think loneliness may be combated through several forms: reading
really good fiction, doing drugs (weed in particular), having passionate sex,
or any form of escapism. I find that the latter are only temporary ways to
combat loneliness. If we would like to conquer loneliness, making a home of
yourself and reflecting on what truly is is really important.

~~~
ForRealsies
Have you thought about taking upon more responsibility? Be it to your
community, to a volunteer organization, pets, and even plants. Modern society
is malnourished when it comes to the sense of belonging.

“The higher degree of responsibility that you agree voluntarily to try to bear
the richer your life will be.” -Jordan Peterson

------
ensiferum
And talk about modern online dating. It takes defeat to a wholly new level.
Back in the day one could be rejected by a handful of ladies in a conventional
setting (bar, club, whatever). Now when you're dating online you can instantly
rejected by an infinite number of women \o/

;-)

------
partycoder
Modern society may have issues, but it as bad as it is usually portrayed.

10,000 years ago, you would live in a tribe. If you were not popular among
your tribe, it is likely you would be either exiled and forced to live in
solitude and die during winter or be constantly subject to violence.

2,000 years ago, you would live only to work in a farm or be in a state of
perpetual war. To make things worse, literacy rate was something around
0.001%, if you were lucky.

1,000 years ago, you would be essentially doing the same while dying from a
plague. There was no sanitation of any kind.

200 years ago, you would be working at a factory and going to war every 30
years.

100 years ago, there was no radio or TV, so you still had stuff like this:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot)

About 60 years ago women were predominantly housewives and were vulnerable to
all sorts of abuse.

So no, right now things are better.

~~~
jonsterling
Wait, do you think that the Tulsa race riot happened because people didn't
have radio or TV? Wtf?

Race riots occurred in this country because of the acute structural
contradiction between the white settler-nation and the other nations; these
contradictions have not been resolved by radio and TV in the interim. We will
see more of these riots in the future.

~~~
partycoder
I do not think that.

But I think is that more people would not have been OK with that level of
violence and destruction if they had a chance to actually see it, rather than
presented through words on a newspaper.

------
wu-ikkyu
>How can a person be expected to be happy with, and in, themselves when the
eternal message is: “Try harder, do better, climb higher, don’t fail”?

"Success is as dangerous as failure. Hope is as hollow as fear.

What does it mean that success is as dangerous as failure? Whether you go up
the ladder or down it, Your position is shaky. When you stand with your two
feet on the ground, You will always keep your balance.

What does it mean that hope is as hollow as fear? Hope and fear are both
phantoms That arise from thinking of the self. When we don't see the self as
self, What do we have to fear?

See the world as your self. Have faith in the way things are.

Love the world as your self; Then you can care for all things."

-Lao Tzu

------
gerbilly
We have to meet people more in real life.

Humans need face to face contact to be fully happy.

Why, as supposedly modern humans, do we have to rediscover this?

~~~
crimsonalucard
Its how we live and dine. Prehistoric humans ate, hunted and lived together as
tribes while at the same time acting very antisocial to other competing
tribes. We are built to be social at the same time we are also built to be
wary and even hostile to people we dont know. Its a contradiction. If you are
not eating and living with anyone then you are most likely lonely. The answer
is to find a community that eats and dines and live together.

------
sigsergv
I don't think number of lonely people increases, they just become much more
visible. Social networks and other changes in modern society make loneliness
acceptable and people stop hiding it.

~~~
martin_andrino
At the same time, social networks create an illusion for lonely people so they
feel accompanied. It’s not all that bad.

~~~
Falkens_Maze
Junk food isn't bad once in a while.

But if you eat junk food all the time, it's pretty obvious that one of the
immediate consequences of eating junk food every day is the general decline of
your health.

So it goes for social media. Social networks are the junk food of socializing.
And don't get me started on what that does to someone's sense of self, well-
being, norms, ethics, morality etc.

Maybe this picture will be illuminating to you[1]. It succinctly summarizes
what I'm trying to say.

I should probably mention the image might be NSFW.

[1] [http://artfucksme.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/12/controversi...](http://artfucksme.com/wp-
content/uploads/2014/12/controversial-illustrations-gunsmithcat-luis-
quiles-2-700.jpg)

------
cousin_it
I think individualistic cultures like the West can only work by teaching their
members many subconscious habits for pushing away other people. That's great
because it enables individual creativity (not to mention freedom from some
ugly hierarchies we'd rather forget about), but the flip side is that people
feel more distant from each other.

Thankfully, solving this problem doesn't require changing all of society. You
can solve it for yourself: take a few years to notice and unlearn your habits
for pushing away other people. I'm confident that you have many such habits
right now, from the way you stare at your phone in public, to your posture and
facial expressions every minute of the day.

To give you a picture of the end result, imagine a stereotypical immigrant
from a more collectivist culture. Their reputation for openness isn't
undeserved.

------
solarkraft
Not having things in common with others doesn't exactly provoke loneliness.
You can be lonely around people you have a lot in common with. Worst thing is
that if you don't start a conversation you won't even know whether you do have
anything in common.

------
gumby
This is actually why I am so concerned with (as in: working towards) the
elimination of all jobs. "But what will people do?" I am often asked, as if
the worth of someone is determined by their job. They can write bad poetry or
watch TV, but I suspect and hope that a lot of the time will be spent with
others. Humans are social animals.

~~~
Danihan
So, just tons of STDs and overpopulation?

~~~
guhidalg
Sure, having sex is more fun than being lonely.

~~~
Danihan
Until the consequences of finite resources kick in...

~~~
gumby
_Particularly_ in an environment where the marginal cost of goods is nil,
price signalling should resolve this. Consider the economics of Simon, Hubbert
et al vs Erlich, Malthus et al.

------
thriftwy
I don't know, I have a wife and a few friends and loneliness doesn't enter
into the picture anymore.

If I was lonely I think I'll go somewhere where board games are played and
there find an unlimited company.

------
joshsyn
I have always been lonely all my life. I will use this to my advantage.

------
peterburkimsher
"needing some comfort, had been showered instead with practical solutions to a
practical problem, which had just upset her even more"

When something bad happens to someone you care about, don't say "What
happened?" That focuses on the problem. Maybe they don't want to talk about
it.

Ask "Are you OK?"

You can always say this even if there's nothing wrong.

If they say "Yes, why?", they're your friend.

If they say "Fine." then they don't trust you.

If they tell you "No, ..." they think you're a close friend.

Then ask "What can I do to help you? You're not alone."

Focus on the solution.

If you want to know if someone trusts you, just ask "Are you OK?" and they
will tell you.

~~~
ThePadawan
Unfortunately, "I'm fine" is a strongly ingrained default reaction in some
circles. I feel this largely depends on culture (e.g. the British 'stiff upper
lip' ideal) and negative media influence (personally, I'm thinking of the
misguided idea of 'real men don't cry').

How do we get through that barrier?

~~~
colechristensen
In many cases, respect the cultural difference, don't try to make other people
into what you prefer.

There is a difference between emotional intelligence and willingness to freely
express emotion. "I'm fine" in many cases just means "no, thank you".

------
cyberpunk0
We need a return to primitive values. Money is the problem, it is the driving
factor in virtually every problem we have today directly and indirectly

