
Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon - atarian
http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/02/runner-disqualified-after-claiming-2nd.html
======
npunt
Regardless of the cheating, this type of post doesn't fully sit right with me.
Given the permanence of record on the internet, this does bring up the issue
of how we police bad behavior, and how we incorporate forgiveness into that.

That said, the poster was pretty fair, and generally refer to her as "the
runner". It definitely reads as an obsessive sleuthing, no doubt in part
because there were follow-on discoveries made. As the saying goes, "one is a
fluke, two is a coincidence, three is a trend", and it seems there's a trend
here.

What's interesting is someone in the comments mentioned this:

> The majority of those "30K" instagram followers are fake accounts - many of
> the likes on her recent photos are spam bots. She 100 percent buys
> followers/likes.

My guess is a lot of people probably do this to bump up their social status a
bit. It's relatively innocent (if a bit narcissistic), though if its true in
her case, it fits a clear pattern. Can't verify though, given it seems she's
shut down her social media presence.

This is one of those cases where sympathy and revulsion are equally valid
emotions. I wouldn't want to be on the other end of the hive-mind, but it is a
self-inflicted wound.

~~~
gabemart
I commend your call to sympathy.

I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't
affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating
consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally.

I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using
photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some
extent not google-able. However, the full name is used in the comments, and
then extensively in other media coverage of this story, so this is a moot
point.

As with the parent, I'm not defending cheating in a competitive race,
especially if sponsorship is involved. But ultimately, I can't take any
pleasure in a worldwide glee-fuelled shame-fest over what is ultimately a
relatively trivial, presumably non-criminal misdeed.

~~~
fergie
Thirded.

It can be really easy to make navigational errors in amateur races, especially
with turnaround points. Usually there is no crowd lining the whole course,
signage is bad, and the marshalling can be spotty.

Yes, this person is a bit narcissistic and a tad dishonest, but it might just
have been easier to go along with the misunderstanding rather than fess up to
messing up.

 __EDIT: __OK, OK, "very dishonest" then. My point being that this stuff
sometimes happens, people deal with it in different ways, and that witch-hunts
can be just as damaging as the transgression itself. But yes, a lot of you
(rightly) care about the integrity of amateur sportspeople who are also in the
public sphere.

~~~
DanBC
The author has another blog post to explain who s/he writes about:
[http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2016/05/the-
differerenc...](http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2016/05/the-differerence-
between-holding-people.html)

> The overall feedback I have received from the public regarding my work on
> the blog and the Boston reviews has been positive. (At some point I will try
> to clarify the review and filtering process - but runners that just had a
> bad day in Boston, or paced a friend, or just took their time, are not going
> to be singled out. They have nothing to worry about).

In this case she cut part of the course; she sought out officials to reassure
them of her time; she accepted the medal; she faked data after the race; she
only came clean after she was confronted with this information.

I agree that now she's come clean any identifying information should be
removed. And I hate some of the comments that are clearly piling on. And it
should be obvious but any attacks on social media are unacceptable.

~~~
skrebbel
> I agree that now she's come clean any identifying information should be
> removed.

How?

~~~
DanBC
Ah, yes, that's a good point. Once it's on the internet it's there forever.

~~~
Bartweiss
Not just that - race records like this are public. Even a piece which said
only "second place runner in this marathon cheated" would be easy to connect
to her name.

~~~
cr0sh
> would be easy to connect to her name.

It would be - if people actually cared to check. Most don't, though. We know
this.

------
kriro
For me the most interesting tidbit is that she biked the entire race
afterwards in a cover up attempt. Are there any studies on doing something
wrong and escalating it with coverup attempts? Or is there a name for this
that I'm not aware of? I know it has to be the theme of at least one classical
drama...sort of a reverse "Hans in Luck" of sorts...I dunno.

I have witnessed this pattern before and the spiral that person went on was
completely out of character and a progression of small pieces. I wouldn't be
shocked if a good number of serious crimes had almost comically trivial root
causes that escalated that way.

~~~
hiharryhere
Marcus Einfeld comes to mind. A formerly well respected Australian judge who
perjured himself over a $77 speeding ticket by blaming it on dead Americans
and received 3 years in prison for the string of lies he told to trying to
cover it up. Madness.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Einfeld#Criminal_convic...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Einfeld#Criminal_conviction)

~~~
PhantomGremlin
Everyone should read this. It's hilarious.

First the judge tried to blame Teresa Brennan, "an old friend" from the USA.
Turns out she was dead, and he knew it.

But then he _claimed that he had lent his car on that day to a different
Teresa Brennan, whom he claimed also lived in the USA, and who had also died._

When various TV shows have comically stupid plot twists I sometimes struggle
with "suspension of disbelief". But this is one of those cases where truth is
far stranger than fiction. You'd never believe someone in such a position of
trust could be so stupid over something so petty.

------
oxide
Personally I am fascinated by marathon cheats. Every time I see a story about
someone cheating in a marathon I can't help but wonder what was going through
the person's head before, during, and after.

I also wonder how often they do it, and why. You don't win any money, there is
no incentive I can make out beyond bragging rights.

I mean, they aren't exactly footraces, right? It's an endurance test, IMO.
Usually for charity, people usually participate for the exercise and show
support for a good cause, or so I always assumed.

Winning seems totally arbitrary on one hand, but on the other hand I have to
assume people do compete on some level, which makes the cheating more
sensible, if you think about it in that sense.

I cheated once when I was a teenager at an online competitive game, so I'm not
completely ignorant about the temptation of cheating. I'm used to people
cheating at competitive online games, they're usually underskilled and looking
to compensate, underage, just looking to spoil the fun, or some combination of
those.

Maybe that's the intention here, to spoil the fun for those looking to
compete. I suppose I'll never really know, but I can't help but ponder it
whenever it comes up.

~~~
greeneggs
Many races do have cash prizes. For a smaller race, it could be just a trophy,
or a trophy plus something from a sponsor, but it could also be cash
($50-$100+ range).

~~~
pc86
I have to believe that most people can make $100 in much easier ways than
running _most_ of a marathon

~~~
Humdeee
I'm an avid runner. I can say with confidence there's next to no money in
running if you're not a unicorn in the elite circuit. I follow the sub-elite
scene moderately closely I'd say. The successful ones who are at it full time
and have a sponsorship may live in a house or condo not much bigger than a
shack. Some live out of their van.

------
Dowwie
I am not of the few vocal minority here who sympathizes with the person who
cheated. Marathons are shared, sacred experiences organized by a community of
volunteers. The marathoninvestigation.com author is protecting that which is
sacred and shared among the running community. That is a noble cause and worth
commending.

~~~
flocial
I agree but perhaps it's because the majority of apologists do not truly
appreciate the challenges of running such races that they place a higher value
on an amateur runner's privacy than the results of an arbitrary running event
being skewed by a cheater.

~~~
Fraztastic
Difficulty doesn't make things 'sacred' unless you're obsessed & delusional.
It would be difficult to stand on one-leg for 40 hours but it would also be
pointless & stupid, not 'sacred'.

------
ajeet_dhaliwal
I know nothing about running and this post was like looking into a whole world
I did not know existed, all of this tech used in something as basic as
running, so many opportunities for entrepreneurs in every aspect of life.
Every one lives in their own world, some people wonder why gamers like to
finish all side quests in a game, others may wonder why someone cares about
running marathons so much, using all this tech, but most interestingly of all,
the lengths someone would go to cheat in a run, and the lengths someone would
go to uncover it all. The apology on instagram if real is a bit lame.

~~~
purple-again
That's the kind of apology you expect from someone that's sorry they got
caught. She can't get through the first paragraph without trying to make
another excuse about not feeling well. Completely removes any sincerity from
the rest of the piece.

Different people have different morals, and honor isn't as universal as we
would hope.

------
jomar
You would think the turnaround point would be a natural place for the race
organisers to put a timing mat. They would capture an extra split time and be
able to automatically identify runners succumbing to this temptation.

~~~
gk1
Timing mats are usually placed at the same distance in every race: 5k, 10k,
13.1mi, etc. Adding extra mats probably means more cost.

That didn't prevent the 2016 Philadelphia Marathon organizers from placing an
unannounced mat at a turnaround point 22 miles into the race. It helped them
catch hundreds of cheaters.

And even if you can afford the extra mats, another challenge is where to place
them. It's obvious with an out-and-back course, but there are many shortcut
opportunities on every loop path, and you can't place a mat at every apex.

~~~
gjem97
Hundreds of cheaters?! Now I'm starting to understand why marathon sleuthing
is the cottage industry that it is.

~~~
gk1
I think the number was unusually high for this particular race because the
out-and-back is at the tail end of the race, is very long (4 miles out, 4
miles back), is only separated by traffic cones (making it easy to cut to the
other side), and the weather was unusually brutal (very windy, near-freezing).
It never occurred to me to cut to the other side, but I can understand why it
did to many others.

------
markcerqueira
Wow! The sleuthing here is intense and that smoking gun (a purchased high-res
version of a photo showing the actual distance covered) is amazing!

------
rdtsc
Why? What drives people to do it?

Is there money on the line? sponsorships for products.

It obviously wasn't just a momentary weakness it was an elaborate plan and for
what to brag about it at work or on Instagram? But wouldn't she know she
cheated every time she thought or talked about it. That would be hard thing to
live with it seems

Edit: wonder how I'd feel if a friend or co-worker did this. I could see it
creating some serious trust issues

~~~
potatosareok
Beyond this post, you might be interested in another post in the blog:
[http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/01/WhyIcheated.htm...](http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2017/01/WhyIcheated.html).
The blogger interviews someone he caught cheating in a pretty benign fashion
about why he cheated. From that article, and my perspective on it, the answer
to:

> That would be hard thing to live with it seems

Is the choice is not between

    
    
      1) My great life
      2) My greater life, with some compliments
    

but

    
    
      1) My life that I don't feel great about
      2) My life that I don't feel great about, with some compliments now
    

Where "my life" is how I'm feeling at that particular moment. I am impressed
that to you this concept seems so foreign, for me I can definitely recall
moments that people overstated the importance of things I've done and I've
accepted the compliments because it made me feel better at times I was feeling
down. This to me seems like a minor leap from what I've done.

I've run marathons in the past and my times were awful but back then I was
generally a happier person. If I were to be running a marathon today and
somehow the timers marked me an hour faster then I really was for example, I
might not correct them.

~~~
otoburb
>> _somehow the timers marked me an hour faster then I really was for example,
I might not correct them._

People are more likely to draw the moral line in the sand when the error in
your favour goes so far as to bump a legitimate winner off the podium. Your
scenario above regarding "[...] with some compliments now" seems more in line
with "just a slightly better time in the middle of the pack."

I appreciate your willingness to be open and honest about how you'd handle a
less egregious situation, but I doubt you'd go this far based on the relative
positioning you've outlined.

------
nl
A much more interesting "marathon cheating" story:
[http://time.com/3822577/rosie-ruiz-history/](http://time.com/3822577/rosie-
ruiz-history/)

Also related to Boston: [http://www.runnersworld.com/boston-marathon/dozens-
suspected...](http://www.runnersworld.com/boston-marathon/dozens-suspected-of-
cheating-to-enter-boston-marathon)

~~~
wapz
I didn't find this one as interesting. She took the subway and popped out for
the last mile. The half marathon we got a lot of info about the pace, cadence,
and heartrate that the runner herself submitted.

~~~
npunt
I think the interesting bit is this:

> And while Ruiz never faced criminal consequences for faking her race
> finishes, she later ran afoul of the law for unrelated reasons. In 1982, she
> was charged with stealing $60,000 from the realty company she worked for,
> and in 1983 she was arrested for selling two kilos of cocaine to an
> undercover detective, per the AP.

------
thyselius
Isn't this what many entrepreneurs does in their PowerPoints? Fake it until
you make it.

~~~
alpeb
So true. Unfortunately bullshitting ability usually correlates to success.

------
adenadel
These sorts of situations keep appearing with lots of attention. One of the
most (in)famous instances has a thread with thousands of pages on the
Letsrun.com forum

[http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6479539](http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6479539)

There's also the case of the guy who was faking his run accross America

[http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7355147](http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7355147)

For whatever reason, this group of people in the online running community gets
really into discovering who is cheating.

------
southphillyman
I did this by accident before, at a 5K. I arrived to the race so late that
when I crossed the starting line to BEGIN the race it registered that as my
finish time and I'm posted on the result website as finishing in 2nd place.

~~~
massysett
You didn't "do this" unless you also stood on a podium, lied to race
officials, and tried to cover it up.

------
creo
Publicly shaming people for money is not right way for holding the true,
athletic, fair-play spirit of running. While his work and methods are
outstanding, it's still ethical burden to ask for donations just to humiliate
wrongdoers. Don't get me wrong, i'm a runner myself and i'm all about
reporting, but making it opportunistic just doesn't feel right for me.

~~~
angry-hacker
Why do you think this is public shaming?

If so, majority of newspapers are about public shaming. It's actually decent
investigation here.

~~~
creo
It's made public so people can discus and judge. Problem with this approach is
that it will not only shame, but also mark a target for offenders, so it's not
only adjudication, it's a act of aggression. Think about police investigators.
Why are they not publishing full names and faces of criminals?

EDIT On second thought, public shaming is consequence of something more
important. If race officials would pay for reporting legitimate offences there
wouldn't be a need to ask for donations. So author could keep those
investigations hidden.

~~~
appleflaxen
This is utterly factual. If the facts are shameful, that's on the person who
created the facts about them, not on the reporter.

------
agentgt
Not to be too tangential but I'm actually looking for a good running watch
(I'm just getting back into running) and possibly heart rate monitor + gps. I
noticed in the article they show her watch (to show the discrepancy in
distance). What watch is that? What is the running software?

EDIT (I missed the Garmin 235 link and paragraph). I am not sure how I missed
it over and over (I was using my phone) and yes I feel dumb for posting the
comment.

~~~
ward
It says so in the article, it is the Garmin Forerunner 230 or 235. The 230
uses a chest strap for heart rate, the 235 has optical heart rate built in.
The software is Garmin's. To connect the watch and get the data off it you can
use Garmin Connect (works via your phone and bluetooth) or you can connect the
watch with a wire and use it as you would a regular hard drive. The files on a
Garmin are saved as .FIT files. I use a Garmin Forerunner 225 and am quite
happy with it.

~~~
agentgt
I feel completely stupid for missing that. For some reason the layout of the
pictures on my phone made me miss that. I might delete my comment now.

------
metaphor
The Garmin 235 image...is that an E Ink display?

~~~
dangrossman
It's a 215x180 color LCD, not e-ink.

~~~
metaphor
Thanks for point that out. Edge crispness, lack of glare, and broad daylight
contrast of the display was really throwing me off.

~~~
semi-extrinsic
These are "reflective" LCD displays, where there is a one-way mirror between
the LCD and backlight. In daylight, the backlight is actually off and the
display is illuminated by the light around you. Pretty common e.g. on all
sorts of boating displays (GPS/Radar/Sonar/etc.).

~~~
usrusr
And it's a shame that nobody makes an Android device for the long tail of
special interest use cases where a transflective display showing some simple
custom app would save the day.

------
davesque
What's the value of making this a public matter? Is this a really major half-
marathon or something?

------
bykovich
Reserving a domain to publish this "investigation" seems unnecessary and
somewhat troubling -- as does the extent of the investigation itself.

EDIT: I was mistaken -- this site is dedicated to ratting out cheating
runners. Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

~~~
xor1
This post from the comments does a pretty good job of describing why outing
fraudsters is a noble cause:

"Lastly, and why I donated, is that this is a nod to the spirit that every
serious, non-professional athlete carries with them. Each race we run is one
more (or probably one less) opportunity to be as competitive as we can
possibly be. We love to be measured. Most know we'll never be getting prize
money, or making the Olympics, so this is it for us. These events are the only
place we can live out our kooky sports fantasies. And at the core of that --
the one thing that makes it so gratifying when you make a podium, or a top 10,
etc. -- is that you believe you have been able to "better the competition"
fair and square. What this young lady did last Sunday was to steal that
confidence from all of us. And by "outing" her in the fashion that you did...
we get to see the right amount of equal, and opposite, force put things back
onto an even keel. You weren't unfair in anything you did, instead, you just
did what everyone is craving -- to absolutely right an absolute wrong. We even
understand her twisted and pathetic motive now. And that's important -- VERY
important, because everyone reading this knows that it will happen again. But
back at the finish line we'll be saying... "Hey, remember that Derek guy? I
think I'm gonna see if he can help us out with what happened at the race
today." Thanks :)"

~~~
orasis
This is just the flip side of the coin of the cheater: people inflating their
egos about something that really doesn't matter. Have fun with it. It doesn't
matter if you win and it doesn't matter if someone cheats.

~~~
facepalm
You could say that about all sports competitions...

~~~
orasis
For non-professional sports I totally agree. It's a hobby.

~~~
facepalm
What is the point of professional sports?

The only benefit I can see is learning more about the human physique. But does
that alone justify the scale and investment, or could that be had in cheaper
ways?

~~~
orasis
Professionals get paid either to entertain or as part of an entry fee Ponzi
scheme. The latter is what you see in Judo and Jiu Jitsu with the federations
raking in the money.

------
risingintonatio
What exactly is the point of this post? I second the opinion that this
shouldn't be on HN. It's just doxxing the poor girl.

~~~
aaron695
HN should never dox people.

HN shouldn't approve of articles doxxing.

But I don't think hiding from things happening on the internet is the HN way.

Upvoting an article means it's interesting, not that you agree with the views
necessarily.

This is certainly an article from a site that uses mob justice. And like most
mob justice about something pretty silly, it's more about getting outraged and
getting to pick on someone.

------
pm24601
HN: Should remove this post because it is a doxxing post.

HN: should not be engaged in internet hating/shaming.

~~~
jameskegel
Please settle down.

------
hyperliner
I am surprised by the new, gentle and forgiving approach of the crowd towards
this runner here. It contrasts drastically with some attacks I see here
against some politicians or corporate leaders when they fail to meet the HN-
echo chamber standards.

Also, isn't this what the media usually does? Find dirt and expose it, damn
the consequences to those involved?

Damsel in Distress?

