
Veteran's Hospital LSD Testing (1956) [video] - Abundnce10
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7agl-sNLXMI
======
easternwest
"I can't tell you about it. If you can't see it then you'll just never know
it. I feel sorry or you."

This is a succinct summary of my own experiences. LSD basically makes you
realize just how much of a slave you are to your own biology, and the kind of
unrestrained thoughts it elicits cannot readily be translated to everyday
frameworks. Nobody who's never tripped can comprehend what it's like to trip.

Still, it can help you learn lessons if you make a point to do so. I recall
LSD trips whenever I feel stressed or depressed, and it works really well to
make me realize how little my problems matter in the grand scheme of things.

------
joeyspn
A trip can't be explained. You have to live it. From what I remember from my
few experiences during my adolescence, a nice trip feels (visually) something
similar to this vid:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sZ_vwqwcE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sZ_vwqwcE).

Pixelation, fractals and weird japanese voices included… =)

I don’t think I will ever repeat it, and I don’t think I need it. I was very
fortunate to try it before my 20s. That level of introspection and decoupling
from reality changes your point of view for the rest of your life, so I think
I got all the benefits quite early. I became more creative, in fact I excelled
in creativity in the Uni. I would easily come up with engineering and design
solutions that my professors couldn’t even imagine. I really think LSD made be
a better problem solver.

Steve Jobs (and many prominent artists like The Beatles) liked it for a
reason… Here's one of Jobs quotes:

“Taking LSD was a profound experience, one of the most important things in my
life. LSD shows you that there’s﻿ another side to the coin, and you can’t
remember it when it wears off, but you know it. It reinforced my sense of what
was important—creating great things instead of making money, putting things
back into the stream of history and of human consciousness as much as I
could.” ― Steve Jobs

Think about what that means…

~~~
fragmede
The whole "can't be explained" thing is really annoying.

Visually, a trip is very similar to this gif
[http://i.imgur.com/w9ygNoP.gif](http://i.imgur.com/w9ygNoP.gif)

Mentally, it's like a series of breakthroughs you'd get after years of therapy
wrapped up into a couple hours.

You have to give people _some_ explanation, otherwise we'll never progress
past "I heard Lucy makes people go crazy and they think they can fly so they
jump off the Golden Gate Bridge".

~~~
sillysaurus3
Another annoying aspect of LSD is that it's impossible to say anything bad
about LSD without being jumped on by people who have made LSD part of their
own identity, the same way being a Democrat is part of their identity. Try
saying anything bad about either one, and you're in for a bad time.

It's possible that the silent majority simply feel that spending a bunch of
time in an altered LSD state is a crazy thing to do. People claim they are
profoundly different after tripping, but if you look at what they _do_ , not
what they say, they don't seem much different. They seem like pretty much the
same person, if you look at their accomplishments before and after.

That's not to discount the therapeutic properties. If LSD can help someone in
pain, whether physical or emotional, then it's a great tool. But that's a very
different situation from what most LSD proponents seem to imply: that everyone
should do it for no particular reason except curiosity. And curiosity is nice,
but we should at least be willing to admit what it is: an interesting
experience, the same way taking a vacation to a remote tropical island is an
interesting experience. But you'll still be pretty much the same person before
and after your vacation, though more relaxed afterwards.

~~~
eatmyshorts
A few counterpoints to your statement, "if you look at what the do, not what
they say, they don't seem much different." Francis Crick attributed his
discovery of DNA to LSD. Steve Jobs attributed much of his accomplishments in
life due to his experiences on LSD (iirc, his aversion to buttons was
developed during one particular LSD trip, and this led to the design of the
one-button mouse, the click-wheel on the iPod, and the button-less front face
of the iPhone). Jimmy Hendrix also attributed much of his creative abilities
due to LSD.

I think you'll find as many examples of people who are transformed by it as
you want to. Put your blinders on, and it's just a drug to "turn on, tune in,
and drop out". First-hand experiences of the drug, like psilocybin (chemically
basically the same drug), show that people truly do have positive life-
altering changes in their lives after the experience.

~~~
michaelcampbell
That cuts both ways - people can equally say "I was able to <X> because I
never took <Y>."

Without some objective data, there's no way to attribute the abilities and
accomplishments to the absence or presence of LSD.

~~~
eatmyshorts
Crick developed his understanding of the structure of LSD _during_ an LSD
trip. Steve Jobs developed an active aversion to buttons _during_ one of his
LSD trips. These were merely two examples of direct counterpoints to the GGP
post. These weren't concepts that were enabled indirectly by LSD; they were
the direct results of the LSD trips, not cases of "I was able/not able to do
<X> because I took/never took <Y>".

~~~
michaelcampbell
Strawman. While those stories _MAY_ be true, it's equally valid to posit that
those discoveries/thoughts may well have happened otherwise, too.

Just like all the things that have been discovered while not on LSD, for
example.

~~~
eatmyshorts
I think you're confusing a "straw man argument" (
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
) with "anectdotal evidence" (
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence)
). I never claimed anything but anectdotal evidence, as I presented three
separate cases of anectdotal evidence as direct contradictions to the original
post. These examples are, indeed, direct contradictions to the original post.
The original author then edited their post to add the bit about possible
therapeutic properties of the drug, but the original content stated
categorically that LSD did not contribute to any significant development in
people that took it, and I presented three counterpoints, two of which claim
that their insights came while on the drug, as a direct consequence of the
drug's effects on the mind.

In either case, the additional edit stating "that everyone should do it for no
particular reason except curiosity" was not in the original post, and is
something that nobody here, as far as I can tell, is promoting. LSD, like
psilocybin, is a powerful drug, and should be respected as such.

------
navyrain
When I see videos like this, or read other experiences of LSD, I wonder if I'm
not missing out on something. LSD, uniquely amongst mainstream recreational
drugs, seems to have the promise of an outright transcendental upside, with
supposedly little downside.

It saddens me that there is no safe and legal way for me to try it.

~~~
skjsjsnsnsms
Is there really little downside?

Anecdotally, I've heard from friends in the jamband scene about friends who
did LSD who came back "completely changed , and not in a good way."

~~~
toolz
I imagine there is a lot of confirmation bias going on with stories like that.
Drugs are seen almost universally as taboo, so people want to see the bad
things that may happen and when people want to see something, exaggerations
tend to happen.

I'm not saying your friends weren't changed for the worse, but I do know I've
never met someone who was proud to be an LSD user. As such I have to conclude
that people choose to speak poorly about LSD, which in turn means we all hear
more horror stories than feel good endings.

~~~
intopieces
>I do know I've never met someone who was proud to be an LSD user

I am proud to be an LSD user. For a few of my friends who struggle with
depression, they take LSD once every few months. They report that it acts as
an emotional 'reset.'

~~~
toolz
Are you proud to be an LSD user in the context of everyday society? Do you
tell your employer? Have you recommended LSD to all of your close family
members?

I don't know you or where you're from, but that's unheard of inside the circle
of people I know.

~~~
maroonblazer
>Are you proud to be an LSD user in the context of everyday society?

Not really a fair question, given the taboo still surrounding the drug.
Imagine asking a homosexual in the 1950's "Are you proud to be gay in the
context of everyday society?" Of course the answer is going to be "No." But in
certain circles - namely those that don't give in to the notion that such
experiences are unspeakable - the answer is surely "Yes."

That said, I agree with zafka that being "proud" to have taken LSD is
effectively a category error.

~~~
toolz
That's my whole point, though. Negative confirmation bias happens because
there is taboo surrounding the drug and those that are silently proud, are
just that, silent. While those that condemn it are vocal. Hence more negative
stories are told giving people more negative anecdotal data to draw from.

------
saganus
Around 5:18 she says "I wish I could talk in Technicolor". I think that shows
how much of an impression LSD made, as well as what it meant at that time for
a housewife to watch a movie in Technicolor.

To me, it seems that she is trying to say that the difference between watching
a movie in B/W and then in Technicolor, would be similar as being sober and
then taking LSD.

------
djrtwo
That clip left me with so many questions. What was the purpose of the dosing?
Did they follow up with her? Was there a lasting change in her life?

Seems like it must have been radically jarring to her 1950s housewife societal
role.

~~~
tomasien
I think the truly fascinating thing about acid is that is does have an impact
but it's somehow not that jarring, given what it is.

~~~
djrtwo
Jarring might have been the wrong word. I meant instead that the 6-10 hour eye
opening experience would have likely caused her to question a lot of things
about her life. Sometimes the questions you ask during an acid experience
impact how you view yourself and your situation outside of the experience.

Being a 1950s housewife, those questions and realizations might not be
coherent with her expected role.

------
datashovel
For anyone sharing their personal experiences, I would recommend looking at
the following video.

For the impatient, forward the video to around 3:45.

[http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke...](http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight?language=en)

~~~
joeyspn
Awesome video. Thanks for posting it...

------
auganov
Just sounds like radically heightened synaesthesia and sensory sensitivity.
With a bit of focus you can start seeing the colors floating in the air she's
talking about. Stare at a wall. Focus only on the vision itself, the image
rendered to your consciousness if you will. Focus on the grain/noise/vibration
in it. Try to "amplify" it as much as possible. Look at the patterns that
form. There's gonna be some color here and there. Amplify again, rinse and
repeat. If you're lucky other senses will follow. When I first "discovered" it
I felt very similar to the person in the video. Pretty curious if it is indeed
a similar experience.

~~~
refurb
The other thing you can do is close your eyes and put gentle pressure on you
eyeballs. You'll start to see moving patterns emerging in the dark.

~~~
JetSpiegel
Just don't use pointed sticks like Newton.

------
chriscappuccio
AL-LAD is quasi-legal in most parts of the world and easily available online.
That might be interesting for people who want a similar experience.

------
avodonosov
Interesting, although today videos of people on drugs are widely available.

There is nothing transcendental or mind opening in the "special effects" she
is experiencing, caused by short circuiting in her mental device.

Even people who get high by inhaling fumes of toxic chemicals (varnishes,
paints, solvents, ether, gasoline, etc) report similar or even more "amazing"
things.

~~~
kirsebaer
Most psychedelic users would say that the visual or sensory effects are not
really the important thing. On psychedelics people can reimagine their
concepts of self and universe. They can think about problems in what many feel
is a totally new way of thinking.

In recent studies at Johns Hopkins, most volunteers described psilocybin
(magic mushrooms, similar to LSD) as one of the most personally and
spiritually meaningful experiences of their lives, comparable to the birth of
their first child.

------
kristofferR
Neurons to Nirvana is a fantastic recent documentary about psychedelics. Worth
checking out, it's on Amazon, iTunes and Netflix.

Here's the trailer:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EpFWLrMhn0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EpFWLrMhn0)

------
unimportant
Reminds me of the appalling CIA MK Ultra program in the 50s:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#LSD](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra#LSD)

------
taivare
Its like skydiving its hard to truly explain the feeling to someone who hasn't
experienced it.

------
_bdog
I'm never sure what to make of people praising the therapeutic value and
giving statements like "it's like a series of breakthroughs you'd get after
years of therapy wrapped up into a couple hours.".

LSD, like other psychedelic drugs (Psilocybin, MDMA, DMT, ...), floods the
brain with (mimics of) neurotransmitters, enabling it to make (almost
arbitrary) connections. Hence the synesthesia. It's "therapeutic" effect stems
from the fact that the brain/mind/consciousness is leaving the treaded paths
it usually takes "automatically" and forms (forces) new trains of thoughts.

Hence the fascination: People are used to their brains working in a particular
way, sorting your experiences into "proper" categories, and are stunned when
they realize that they can actually process information in completely
different ways as well. This is what people mean talking about "filters" being
"removed". Aldous Huxley popularized this idea in "The doors of Perception".

Different medications like SSRIs have this effect as well, but by magnitudes
less strong.

It's a torrent of thought(fragments) that your brain switches through on this
drug. There might be some in there that actually help you cope with a problem
you had in your life, but there are lot of "useless" bits as well.

So what taking LSD does is giving you a perspective you haven't had before.
This _might_ be of therapeutic value, but so can be other experiences you
haven't had before. Like living in a monastery in Tibet. Getting a baby.
Seeing a fellow soldier getting killed in the field. Not sleeping for 70
hours.

I'm sceptical of the praises because:

* LSD doesn't make your prior brain-structure go away. It softens it and forms new paths, but chances are high that you go back feeling the same and thinking the same as before. True therapeutic progress is always slow and iterative, because that way it is stable and lasting. Slamming the psychedelic hammer onto your mind knocks you out of your path, but the experience can't be integrated that well because it usually is too random. Also the iterative approach (meditating, behavioural therapy) makes your brain actually start to produce the neurotransmitters needed to form the desired thoughts.

* People usually feel really well for some time after taking this. This is logical, because they realized that their mind isn't as immutable and frozen as they were afraid it is. Also on strong serotonergic agents like LSD you also experience bodily effects like low to moderate fever (which you don't feel cause you're somewhere else). This can culminate in a serotonin-syndrome [1] [2]. When coming down from this condition it's naturally that you feel well, like you would "coming down" from food-poisoning.

What I find really interesting are two common emotions/feelings that people on
psychedelic drugs experience:

* Spontaneous insight: that all the things they are experiencing are "true", "right", "eternal". Also "sacred" or "holy".

* All the things around are alive, vibrant, conscious.

I would like to know what in the mind actually produces the feeling of "truth"
and what in the mind discerns between "conscious" and "unconscious" things.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin_syndrome)

[2] This is actually the main reason for people dying while partying on
MDMA/ecstasy: their organs overheat.

~~~
DanBC
> True therapeutic progress is always slow and iterative, because that way it
> is stable and lasting.

What do you mean by "slow"? Hours, days, weeks, months, or years?

> Also on strong serotonergic drugs like LSD you always get serotonin-syndrome
> [1]

Your Wikipedia link says

> _Singular use of LSD or other 5ht agonists is unlikely to cause serotonin
> syndrome in lieu of other metabotropic properties which affect the serotonin
> system._

~~~
_98fj
> What do you mean by "slow"? Hours, days, weeks, months, or years?

Depends on the issue, but yes. Weeks to years.

> Singular use of LSD or other 5ht agonists is unlikely to cause serotonin
> syndrome in lieu of other metabotropic properties which affect the serotonin
> system.

Technically correct. Diagnostic criteria include temperature > 38 °C for
example, so it's only called serotonine-syndrome when symptoms get into the
dangerous zone. What LSD does anyway is steering your body into that
direction, so you might not have 38°C on LSD, but e.g. 37.4°C. Simply because
it affects serotonergic systems and those regulate body-temperature. I'll
update my post.

------
erokar
Subject (2:50): "I can see everything in color."

I knew it! Everything really was black and white back then. Except when you
took LSD.

~~~
con-templative
I think if we attempt to look past her poor explanation, she appears to be
experiencing something that she has no obvious rational concept to
communicate, and so when asked to relate the experience in rational concepts
she does know, she has unhelpfully hit on "color".

To be fair to her, she does say several times that she cannot explain it. It
reminds me of this passage from Lord of Light:
[http://people.nas.nasa.gov/~pulliam/lord_of_light.html](http://people.nas.nasa.gov/~pulliam/lord_of_light.html)

~~~
ngcazz
That's a beautiful passage. Thanks for the link. Reminded me of Fernando
Pessoa's writings as Alberto Caeiro.

------
mattmcegg
I highly recommend Neurons to Nirvana (on Netflix) for anyone interested in
learning more about this and other psychedelics.

[http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/70309247](http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/70309247)

------
stuaxo
She is pretty terrible at describing whats happening to her.

~~~
duderific
I actually think she's doing a pretty tremendous job. If you've ever taken
LSD, and tried to explain what it's like to someone who hasn't, then you know
how difficult it is to describe. Even trying to speak coherently when you're
tripping balls is pretty challenging.

~~~
girvo
Whenever I've tripped (over 50 times in the past 8 years, though not for a
while as I moved away from that scene) there was a 3-4 hour period where I
would just not talk. At all.

