
Can a Bit of Electricity Improve Your Brain? - laurex
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-future-brain/201910/can-bit-electricity-improve-your-brain
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turc1656
Recently, a guy I know who is a chiropractor has been telling me how much he
loves PEMF devices. He got one to use on his patients and said that a lot of
pro athletes are using PEMF devices to speed up recovery from injury or just
regular exertion. There are other benefits as well, according to him.

What I found really interesting was not the stated usage about increased
bloodflow and other things from these electromagnetic pulses, but when he told
me that being the curious individual he was the first thing he did with it was
to wrap it around his head to see what would happen. He said he mind was
racing and he felt like his brain was running at twice the normal pace. He
said there was so much going through his head he couldn't stop talking. The
effects wear off but it got me wondering if that's a sort of body hack one
could do to maximize their work performance, albeit on a lower pulse strength
so you're not pissing everyone off yapping all day.

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xattt
There would be a theoretical risk of triggering a seizure, akin to
electroconvulsive therapy.

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JoshMnem
Please be careful.

"Popular electric brain stimulation method used to boost brainpower is
detrimental to IQ scores"

> Using a weak electric current in an attempt to boost brainpower or treat
> conditions has become popular among scientists and do-it-yourselfers, but a
> new study shows that using the most common form of electric brain
> stimulation had a statistically significant detrimental effect on IQ scores.

[https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.h...](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.htm)

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Jun8
I've long been interested in this area, but your brain is not something you
experiment with willy-nilly: if you do damage, it's not like bricking your
raspberry-pi while trying some cool things. That's why direct electrical or
magnetic stimulation sound scary to me.

However, there are other ways to experiment! I think the most amenable one is
the Dream Machine
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamachine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamachine))
or the Mind Machine ([https://makezine.com/2008/11/13/the-brain-
machine/](https://makezine.com/2008/11/13/the-brain-machine/) also
[https://learn.adafruit.com/brain-
machine/overview](https://learn.adafruit.com/brain-machine/overview)).

Also related:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21152542](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21152542)

~~~
brainstim01
The power at which tDCS is operated at is pretty low, after you account for
resistance the voltage seems less scary. For me I get tDCS at ~13-17hz, 60hz,
and 160hz at 0.5 to 1.75 milliamp. The different hz frequencies are to target
different brain waves, (alpha, beta, delta, gamma, etc)

~~~
thfuran
If you think it's still strong enough to affect brain function, I don't really
see how the power being "pretty low" really makes things less scary. I mean, I
guess you won't get electrocuted but messing up your brain is messing up your
brain, regardless of how much power you used to do it.

~~~
coldtea
> _If you think it 's still strong enough to affect brain function, I don't
> really see how the power being "pretty low" really makes things less scary._

Drinking a cup of coffee is "still strong enough to affect brain function",
and yet we do it every day. In fact several times...

Using electricity that's "still strong enough to affect brain function", but
small to have any major effect (they've tried this thing tons of times in
clinical settings) is not that different...

~~~
jstummbillig
> Drinking a cup of coffee is "still strong enough to affect brain function",
> and yet we do it every day. In fact several times...

Yes, the crucial difference being that you are not exactly breaking scientific
ground by sipping a cup of coffee. The effects coffee has on our brain and
body, both short and long term, are well researched and sufficiently tested.

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ScottBurson
> _Typically the voltage is less than two milliamps._

Argh — science journalists :-(

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slig
I read this here on HN: "using tDCS is like using a sledgehammer to tune a
piano".

~~~
mattkrause
No, not really.

The electric fields produced by tDCS aren't strong enough to _force_ neurons
to fire, even in brain areas very close to the surface/electrode, though they
can adjust the _timing_ of neural activity, so that cells fire slightly
sooner/later than they might otherwise. My collaborators and I have collected
some nice data from awake, behaving monkeys (which have obvious similarities
to humans) demonstrating this.

\- DC + behavior:
[http://packlab.mcgill.ca/Krause%20et%20al%202017.pdf](http://packlab.mcgill.ca/Krause%20et%20al%202017.pdf)
\- AC + deeper structures:
[http://packlab.mcgill.ca/Krause%20et%20al%202019.pdf](http://packlab.mcgill.ca/Krause%20et%20al%202019.pdf)

There's also a recent preprint replicating our AC results:
[https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/09/696...](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/09/696344.full.pdf)

~~~
slig
Thanks for the sources!

~~~
mattkrause
No problem--that's the last few years of my life, so if got any questions, I'd
be happy to see if I can answer them.

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aprdm
It really blows my mind how people are willing to potentially cause long term
damage to their brain to try to be more performant at work (or sports).

You only live once, you only have one brain. Please be careful with Snake Oil
until really proven by science...

~~~
ccvannorman
It blows my mind, too! I nearly blew a fuse. It's shocking to say the least ..

Sorry, couldn't resist.. :-D

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crimsonalucard
Anybody have any first hand anecdotal accounts about this? What device do you
use?

~~~
whalesalad
Curious about this as well. Been considering TMS or Ketamine recently so would
love to hear feedback from hackers.

~~~
lenova
I participated in a 4 week rTMS study clinical earlier this summer, for
treatment-resistant depression. Study included:

\- ~30 minute sessions, 5x a week

\- rTMS device stimulates the prefrontal cortex (located through an MRI, and
located each session with a pre-measured cap that you wear during the session)

\- rTMS is non-intrusive, and seems to have virtually no side effects (unless
you have a history of epilepsy, which would have precluded you from the study)

I would describe the sessions as pain-free, with a sense of mild annoyance
(the magnetic pulse feels like someone flicking you on the head with a
finger). Some other people experienced headaches the first two weeks during
treatment, but I didn't experience that.

In terms of effectiveness, I would say that it helped greatly reduce the
symptoms of depression for me. I've struggled with depression for ~10 years,
and antidepressants would sometimes help, but the side-effects were just not
maintainable. With rTMS, I feel like it reduced my symptoms by about 60% (not
completely gone, but man can I ever function in life again!).

It's been about 3 months since I participated in the trial, and I am now
participating in their maintenance program (2 sessions a month, ~10 minutes
per session). At this point, I'm recommending rTMS for those who haven't been
able to find anything that works for them yet.

~~~
newnewpdro
Not related to TMS, but regarding depression - did you ever try microdosing
psilocybin?

~~~
randie63
+1

