
Scientists Have an Answer to How the Pyramids Could Have Been Built - benbreen
http://daily.jstor.org/scientists-have-an-answer-to-how-the-egyptian-pyramids-were-built/
======
mayoff
“Despite the seemingly obvious answer—tomb art discovered in the 19th century
depicts laborers pouring water in front of a block-hauling team—debate over
how the pyramids were built is almost as ancient as the pyramids themselves.”

In other words, people don't read comments. This is why the best practice is
to build _self-documenting_ pyramids.

~~~
autokad
lol yeah exactly. its quite obvious looking at what they were doing:
[http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/el_bersheh/djehoutyhotep/pho...](http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/el_bersheh/djehoutyhotep/photo/djehoutyhotep_41.jpg)

but it is cute that they 'figured it out with science'.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Fourth row down, far left, there is a guy standing on the sled pouring blue
stuff in front of the sled, with dozens of others pulling the sled he stands
on.

My guess is that the number of people in the picture will turn out to be
exactly the right number needed to pull a full sized replica of the sled

And thank you HN - obscure reference to Pyramid tomb art, "oh here is a link
to the very image, three minutes later."

Gotta love HN !

Edit I expect water pourer was the cushy number right up until the sled got
stuck because you poured wrong - whips were probably involved then.

~~~
lstamour
It showed up on HN at least once before, different article though. Edit: Ah,
see comments elsewhere on this page for links. :)

------
WalterBright
I remember back in the 1970's all these "mystery" TV shows wondering how the
South American Indians could fit blocks of stone so precisely that a knife
blade could not be inserted into the gap.

Their conclusion, naturally, was that space aliens had done it. (Although this
was silly on the face of it, because the rest of the construction was not
particularly accurate.)

This nonsense persisted until some archaeologist figured out that such a fit
could be obtained in about 30 minutes by banging and rubbing the two rocks
together, and demonstrated this on camera.

That was the last I heard of the South American monuments being built by space
aliens.

I figure most of the ancient construction puzzles would be head-smackingly
obvious if we just saw what they were doing. We often mistake primitive
societies for being stupid, when in fact they were remarkably clever in
finding solutions within the severe limitations of their technology.

~~~
scoot
> some archaeologist figured out that such a fit could be obtained in about 30
> minutes by banging and rubbing the two rocks together

Remind me how much the rocks weighed?

~~~
WalterBright
If you have a way of lifting the rocks and setting them atop each other, you
can use the method. Just use a lighter "proxy" rock to bang on the heavier
one, test fit, bang on the high spots, test fit, bang on the high spots, test
fit, etc., until it is as accurate as you like.

There also turn out to be sites where this work was in progress when it was
abandoned.

So feel free to believe in space aliens if you like :-) I subscribe to the
notion that the simplest explanation is the most likely.

~~~
scoot
* So feel free to believe in space aliens if you like :-)

Boring straw-man. I was refuting the fact that this could have been done in 30
minutes with rocks of that size. Nobody is suggesting the existence of extra-
terrestrials, (other than you).

~~~
WalterBright
It was demonstrated on TV with rocks about a cubic foot in size. Many Inca
walls are built with stones that size. The technique is adaptable to larger
stones, but of course they'll take longer.

As for ancient alien explanations, see:

[http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2009/07/stone-
masonry-...](http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2009/07/stone-masonry-and-
engineering-at-machu-picchu-no-aliens-needed/)

------
ricardobeat
This was news back in April:
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2617275/The-m...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2617275/The-
mystery-Egyptians-built-pyramids-solved-Researchers-wet-sand-key-movement-
huge-stone-blocks.html)

The important part is that they merely proved that the theory of pulling
blocks over wet sand makes sense, but not how the pyramids themselves were
built (blocks elevated, aligned, etc.).

------
civilian
I'm not an egyptologist or a physicist. But I've always wondered what happened
to the "concrete pyramid" theories. I know that it's only been pushed by Prof.
Davidovits but I haven't really heard any proper critiques of it. (I'm not
sure if that's because I haven't researched enough or if Davidovits is
considered a quack.)

Here's a NYtimes link: [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/africa/23iht-
pyramid...](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/africa/23iht-
pyramid.1.12259608.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&)

And the geopolymer institute:
[http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids](http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids)

edit// and the geopolymer papers download page:
[http://www.geopolymer.org/formulaire/download-
articles](http://www.geopolymer.org/formulaire/download-articles)

~~~
anigbrowl
They were obviously done with a 3d printer, there's clear evidence of
stepping.

I'll show myself out.

~~~
Cthulhu_
With 3D printers growing to the size where they can build houses from concrete
(right now), I can see our spacefaring offspring in a few hundred years flying
to remote planets and 3D printing pyramids.

~~~
lportion
Are they going to decorate the innards of said pyramids with diagrams of
themselves hauling stuff with sledges, water and ropes too?

~~~
Thimothy
"Ha! This will confuse the cr*p out of the buggers who try to figure how we
did it."

------
kevincennis
"Scientists Have an Answer to How the Pyramids _Could Have Been_ Built" would
probably be a better title.

~~~
dang
Ok, we'll use that here.

~~~
belovedeagle
THANK YOU. I'm tired of all this scientistic nonsense showing up on HN:
"Stupid Egyptologists couldn't get it right for hundreds of years; scientists
forced to step in and solve the mystery with absolute certainty!" was
basically how the headline read before.

------
damian2000
Its pretty similar to how some tsunamis manages to wreak havoc in low lying
towns ... a small initial wave inundates the area with a few centimetres of
floodwater, paving the way for the following large surge, which encounters
little friction due to the existing water.

------
zipwitch
What, again? It feels like I hear some variation of this about once a quarter
now.

~~~
anigbrowl
Almost exactly: [http://iop.uva.nl/news-events/content/2014/00/prl-
egyptian-p...](http://iop.uva.nl/news-events/content/2014/00/prl-egyptian-
pyramids.html)

just blogspam from JSTOR.

------
gpvos
Debunked. (Although I can only find this in Dutch at the moment.)
[https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev...](https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dayralbarsha.com%2Fnode%2F184&edit-
text=)

Original Dutch:
[http://www.dayralbarsha.com/node/184](http://www.dayralbarsha.com/node/184)

------
amrek
A french architect named Jean-Pierre Houdin has arguably cracked the method by
which the pyramids were constructed back in 2007:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTgxGJfXRQ0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTgxGJfXRQ0)

You'd think, that out of all the disciplines of human knowledge, an architect
would have been consulted on the puzzle of the pyramids' construction much
earlier, but this is surprisingly not the case. I mean, who better to help
decipher how something was built then a person who designs structures?

~~~
Thimothy
Probably an engineer. After all, architects design buildings but, usually,
they have nothing to do with the calculations and construction methods
employed to build their design.

~~~
amrek
"Engineer" is a very generic term for a wide variety of fields. An architect
is actually a specific type of engineer who not only designs buildings but
also plans their construction. This requires intimate knowledge of the
materials used; e.g. how long they will last, the forces they can withstand,
etc., and you can bet there is a great deal of geometric calculations
involved. You are mistaken if you believe an architect is simply a fancy term
for "graphic design artist for buildings". Architects don't simply put onto
paper whatever comes to mind without a care for practicality. After all, if it
can't be built, you'd be out of a job very quickly.

------
Dirlewanger
Any other information about this Dutch team's model? Are they publishing
something? Pictures? _Who are they?_ The article could at least provide more
information about them...

~~~
specialp
[http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.112...](http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.112.175502)
This is the original article that the APS published in April. Someone posted
the PDF here: [http://www.slideshare.net/joseluismoreno9235/sliding-
frictio...](http://www.slideshare.net/joseluismoreno9235/sliding-friction-on-
wet-and-dry-sand)

------
jplur
As an art handler, I've a theory that they placed thick blankets under the
blocks and pulled the blankets. You'd be amazed at what a couple of people can
pull with a blanket.

------
shliachtx
> If people from all walks of life can come together to build a monument that
> stands for 4000 years, then academics from different disciplines can come
> together to study them.

Something tells me the laborers who built the pyramids weren't working
voluntarily...

~~~
eric_the_read
The source for the idea of the pyramids being built by slaves was most likely
Herodotus, who was probably more than a tad biased, being Greek. The evidence
I've seen, from articles such as this one from the Deseret News (
[http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705357902/New-Egypt-
find-...](http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705357902/New-Egypt-find-
indicates-slaves-didnt-build-pyramids.html?pg=all) ) and the Scientific
American Frontiers show Dead Men's Tales (
[http://www.pbs.org/saf/1203/segments/1203-4.htm](http://www.pbs.org/saf/1203/segments/1203-4.htm)
) indicate that the people who built the pyramids were most likely volunteers,
most of whom showed up, did the equivalent of their national service for a few
years, and went home.

------
knd775
Isn't JSTOR what started the issues for Aaron Swartz?

On topic: I read about that probably being how they moved the materials in
second grade.

------
Houshalter
I had read that they probably used milk instead of water as it would make a
better lubricant.

------
Maken
So, they were built with enough stone, time, slaves and... water.

~~~
jacobwcarlson
The pyramids were not built by slaves, but by hired workers. The workforce
generally consisted of farmers during Inundation periods when their farmland
was underwater.

Edit: I swear I wasn't trying to be pedantic Internet one-up guy. It really
was meant in an "Oh hey, that's a very common misconception but the real story
is actually more interesting" way, sorry :/

~~~
Maken
I know they weren't technically slaves, but it's not like they really needed
those when the Pharaoh could basically invoke anyone in Egypt to work on his
Pyramid.

~~~
eru
Do we know how much power the Pharaoh had in practice? How absolute was their
rule?

~~~
tomsthumb
There were effectively living gods. Combing that with any sort of power would
mean the peasants probably did whatever they were "asked".

~~~
eru
I'm not sure what they were allowed to ask in practice. The Chinese Emperors
were effectively some kind of living god as well (as where the Japanese
Emperors). In practice, their power was limited.

Also, before the industrial revolution (or perhaps the
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Revolution))
states didn't actually have that much influence on the daily lives of people.

------
PSeitz
This is not news, I saw this in a documentary several years ago.

------
lurkinggrue
They had massive whips, Rimmer.

Massive, massive whips.

------
mz725
finally

~~~
olivermarks
Seems implausible given the incredibly precise dimensions of each block -
dragging them through wet sand would remove a significant amount of surface
area..."The accuracy of the pyramid's workmanship is such that the four sides
of the base have an average error of only 58 millimetres in
length".[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza#History_a...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza#History_and_description)

~~~
jahewson
Sorry but humans dragging a block of stone through wet sand is going to have
almost zero impact on its surface area, especially over the short distances
described in the article. The forces needed to significantly erode the stone
would be huge, and are inconceivable given the low friction between the block
and the wet sand.

Not that it matters, because the article is about dragging the blocks through
wet sand on _sleds_ \- did you even read that?

------
thisnewmaka
you konw who else had the answer .... egyptians

------
thisnewmaka
you know who else had an answer ... the egyptians

