
The 11 Most Mystifying Things the Tsarnaev Brothers Did - kumarski
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/eleven-most-mystifying-things-tsarnaev-brothers-did
======
lolcraft
Those do not include the most ridiculous thing they've done.

The absolutely most bizarre thing is that, being "Chechnyan separatists", they
attacked the US, _precisely the one country they shouldn't have_. An attack of
Russia, while stupid in its unlikelihood to mobilize popular support for their
country, would be at least understandable. Russia is, after all, raping their
country every fucking hour. An attack of revenge, maybe against the military
or police forces, would be what's expected.

Instead, they attacked the country which they should have tried to ally with,
the US. With United-Statesian support, at least they could have a shot at
independence, or at least some favourable publicity. There are plenty of
reasons for that to happen [1]. The ironic thing is that, even though it was a
passional, senseless move, the kind that no serious terrorist planner would
consider, it could bring a better understanding, and better publicity for
Chechnya in the West. I hope. Or maybe they just ripped to shreds the only
good card their country had.

Every terror attack that is attempted, the more convinced I am of Bruce
Schneier's views on terrorism: terrorist are fundamentally stupid, emotionally
fragile, intellectually lazy people [2].

[1]
[http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/wha...](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/what-
you-should-know-about-chechnya-as-the-boston-story-unfolds/275156/)

[2] <https://www.schneier.com/essay-242.html>

~~~
jacquesm
Schneier definitely has a point.

But these particular two guys were attending a top university in the United
States so they can't have been too deficient in the IQ department. Why they
would attack the country that gave them shelter is beyond me.

For run-of-the-mill suicide bombers I think that fewer brains is actually
preferable from the perspective of their higher ups. The less they think
things through and the more impressionable they are the bigger the chance they
will go through with whatever stupidity they are being tasked with.

Essentially this is an education problem, if you'd manage to get people to
think for themselves early enough then you might be able to head off a lot of
misery before it gets off the ground.

~~~
twoodfin
Top university in the United States? Suspect #1 had been sporadically
attending classes at a community college. Suspect #2 had been attending UMass
Dartmouth, a state school. No offense to either, but top universities they are
not.

Unless you meant Cambridge Rindge and Latin, which, while a decent urban
public high school, is not to be confused with the prestigious Boston Latin,
which is also public but requires admission by way of a highly competitive
exam.

------
m_eiman
I suppose we should be glad that most of these "terrorists" are incompetent
fools, that means that the competent people of even the die-hard radicals have
decided that there are better things to do than blow people up; hopefully
something a bit more productive.

~~~
Symmetry
Humans are nearly universally bad at doing things they've never done before
and never seen someone do before. Experience and institutional experience are
_really_ important in doing anything effectively, and tacit knowledge is often
hard to convey in training videos. The perpetrators here don't seem to be
particularly smart or brave, but I don't see any reason to think they were
particularly dumb either.

~~~
m_eiman
I didn't say that they were dumb, I said that they were incompetent fools.
Incompetent for not managing to cause more destruction, fools for not escaping
when they had the chance.

It's quite likely that I would be a bad terrorist too, but I would at least
study the effects of explosives and explosions and how to maximize the result
before trying to use them. It's not like there's not a lot of research in the
area, given that it's been a priority for the world's armed forces since
forever.

~~~
Symmetry
They did study the effects of explosives and explosions and they did pretty
well given the constraints they were working under. It's very hard to get
access to high explosives without the FBI nabbing you, and trying to make them
from scratch without a chemistry degree is a recipe for blowing yourself up or
having them fizzle like the Time Square Bomber's. The US isn't like Iraq where
you can buy an artillery shell from a looted depot for $5.

~~~
m_eiman
I was actually thinking of the placement of the bombs. Putting them on the
ground in a crowd means that the people nearest the explosion will act as
shields for those further away.

------
kumarski
Anybody else think it was odd they mentioned WMD? Didn't realize the
definition of WMD was extended to stuff people make at home.

~~~
bobsy
Its interesting. When the US + UK went into Iraq looking for WMD's I imagined
they were after something more menacing than something a kid knocked up in his
apartment.

If that is a WMD then what classification do we give the bombs that level
buildings that have frequently been used in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan?

The most troubling thing I find about the prosecution is how they listed
damaging interstate trade, presumably to keep the death sentence open.
Massachusetts doesn't have the death penalty.

Perhaps the most troubling thing about the bombings is how two people
apparently so disorganized successfully carried out a double bombing..

~~~
mpyne
> If that is a WMD then what classification do we give the bombs that level
> buildings that have frequently been used in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan?

"Conventional ordnance". Military materiel has long been treated separately
from civilian scope though. Just try to buy a gun in Europe if you don't
believe me, and then compare and contrast with a German Army armory. Military
and civilian are two different worlds.

> The most troubling thing I find about the prosecution is how they listed
> damaging interstate trade, presumably to keep the death sentence open.

A Chinese national _died_ due to this. That's not only interstate in scope,
it's international in scope. "Damaging interstate trade" is the Feds piling
on, they could probably easily come up with 14 other ways to ensure
jurisdiction remained at the Federal level if they felt like it. Even as much
as buying a pressure cooker online and having it shipped from out-of-state
would be sufficient to allow Federal jurisdiction.

------
rshlo
The only mystifying thing they did is getting up in the morning and decide
that they want to kill innocent people. They've done it in a country that gave
them citizenship and great possible future. That's the only question we should
ask here.

~~~
PavlovsCat
_That's the only question we should ask here._

Who made you "the only question we should ask" police?

------
ebbv
None of this is mystifying if you realize one fact; they are idiots.

Also the whole "Numbered List of Things" article format is a cancer on the
internet and has been for a long time. It's unworthy of Mother Jones and it's
unworthy of this subject.

~~~
PavlovsCat
_None of this is mystifying if you realize one fact; they are idiots._

So much hand-waving in here, and I think that in itself tells the biggest
story. We don't know if what this was; but IF it was a false flag thingy, it
could and would be explained away in the same fashion. When something bad is
done and the media rub it in deeply enough, anything you can say about the
hated villain will be accepted as long as it makes them look even worse, and
makes yourself feel superior. When worse things happen and the crickets chirp,
well, let's go ride bikes.

You can rationalize it however you want, you can moderate, flag and pout all
you want; you've been trained well, and your comment is projection. You
project your own irrelevance.

 _Also the whole "Numbered List of Things" article format is a cancer on the
internet and has been for a long time. It's unworthy of Mother Jones and it's
unworthy of this subject._

Your response is unworthy of that article _and_ the subject. It's not even a
padded list, so wtf do you think you're spouting other than sophistry?

~~~
ebbv
Tinfoil hat, condescension and faux intellectualism. Impressive. You should
get some kind of award.

~~~
PavlovsCat
Sure, why not shoot an own goal instead of addressing any of what I actually
_did_ say ;)

------
time_n3rgy
The assumption is that the Mother Jones list is accurate (and other 'official
reports' for that matter). I would like to see more people express a broader
view about what's possible regarding the Boston circumstances.

I hope that there are people here that do not completely trust law
enforcement/FBI and realize that there are shady ties between persons of
violent means and the "intelligence" world + power-mad elitists.

I recently found a site called TragedyandHope.net which has some useful info
that covers topics from the history of compulsory schooling to "black ops."

These kinds of incidents create a lot of messy unquestioned details that
replace knowing with belief, no?

~~~
time_n3rgy
Examples of Boston story changes:

[http://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/the_changing_facts_in_the_bo...](http://www.salon.com/2013/04/25/the_changing_facts_in_the_boston_investigation/)

(Didn't there used to be a comment edit feature?)

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ubersync
I have a weapon of mass destruction at my home! Just chill guys, I use a
pressure cooker to boil potatoes sometimes. Actually I have another one as
well, a BB gun. I don't really know which one is the government referring to
as a WMD.

~~~
Terretta
Military definition is what we think of as WMD. The FBI definition of WMD,
though, is any improvised explosive device with more than 1/4 ounce of
explosive.

(Used to be able to buy firecrackers stronger than that so it seems like a
trivializing definition to me.)

------
arcadeparade
[http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/the-
official-...](http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/the-official-
tsarnaev-story-makes-no-sense/)

------
iSnow
Obviously they did not care if the got caught or not, similar in a way to
Anders Breivik.

~~~
mrtksn
Oh they did care, that's why they hide and fight back. they are probably just
morons filled with hatred and no plan other than "bomb this people". they just
assumed that they won't be caught, didn't consider the possibility that they
would be identified.

~~~
Devilboy
Backwards cap? No sunglasses?

~~~
mrtksn
actually attempt to hide identity in the crowd would look more suspicious. the
idea of hiding in the crowd requires to blend in, not look like you are hiding
something.

ah, and sorry for the typos.

------
disbelief
If I could add a 12th item to this list, it would be that one brother
accidentally killed the other by running him over with the stolen car while
trying to get away.

~~~
techtalsky
I don't see that as very mystifying. He was escaping in the middle of a death-
defying gun battle and staying alive was literally the only thing on his mind.
He panicked, and possibly thought his brother was already dead.

------
stfu
Difficult subject. But it seems save to suspect that there are "some"
inconsistencies in the story.

Debka had another take on the situation:

[http://debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-
do...](http://debka.com/article/22914/The-Tsarnaev-brothers-were-double-
agents-who-decoyed-US-into-terror-trap)

~~~
MichaelApproved
So frustrating. When I click te article on my phone, I get redirected to this
page <http://app.debka.com/n/> It's going out of its way to make it more
difficult to use the site.

~~~
13rules
The old server attention span problem...

<http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/server_attention_span.png>

