

Sam's Club will offer small business loans ($5,000 to $25,000) - tamarindo
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i_GvPWwVD-TOqjxLQUPf6weXI6FQD9GPHSE01

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singer
Why focus on only minority, women and veterans? Is that supposed to turn Sam's
Club into some type of saint?

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j_baker
No, but it does show that Walmart is at least trying to not be an evil
megacorporation.

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eru
Selling me cheap stuff of reasonable quality is all I ask my retailers to do.
(Or alternatively, higher quality at higher prices. Depends on what I am
looking for at the moment.)

No other moral requirements needed.

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BrandonM
Even if it is to the detriment of society at large, including you? I don't
know if it's changed in the last couple of years, but Wal-Mart used to help
its employees apply for food stamps, Medicaid, and other aid programs because
they didn't pay them enough. They performed an experiment that showed that
having a single security guard patrol the parking lot at night completely
eliminated crime (mugging, car break-ins, etc. that occur with regularity in
Wal-Mart parking lots), but they did not put it into effect to save what?
$75,000 per year? They have been damaging to the environment in several cases
and often tend to kill the local economy in small towns.

Just because a business sells something that _seems_ cheap, that doesn't mean
it actually _is_ cheap. Consider the portion of your taxes that is going to
supplement the workers' income, to pay police to address crimes that occur in
Wal-Mart parking lots, to pay extra taxes because Wal-Mart only enters areas
that will give them tax breaks, and so on.

The way that corporations are designed precludes them from being moral.
Society would be much better off if we could restructure the incentives of
corporate America to make morality part of their make-up.

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eru
> I don't know if it's changed in the last couple of years, but Wal-Mart used
> to help its employees apply for food stamps, Medicaid, and other aid
> programs because they didn't pay them enough.

If they can get people to work for them at those wages, and they are happy
with the employees they get, why not?

I am glad that we don't have a minimum wage in Germany (in most sectors
anyway).

> They performed an experiment that showed that having a single security guard
> patrol the parking lot at night completely eliminated crime (mugging, car
> break-ins, etc. that occur with regularity in Wal-Mart parking lots), but
> they did not put it into effect to save what? $75,000 per year?

Why don't the people who benefit from no crime pool their money and hire a
security guard?

> [...] and often tend to kill the local economy in small towns.

Sources please. I know of one study about good effects.

> The way that corporations are designed precludes them from being moral.
> Society would be much better off if we could restructure the incentives of
> corporate America to make morality part of their make-up.

I agree wholeheartedly. Internalize externalities. And this isn't confined to
America, where I do not live.

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BrandonM
> If they can get people to work for them at those wages, and they are happy
> with the employees they get, why not?

I'm not saying it's bad for the employees, I'm saying that Wal-Mart shoppers
are paying more than they think. Wal-Mart sells stuff so cheap in part because
they pay their workers low wages. The only way that works is because our tax
money is being used to subsidize that income. Thus the cost of the things we
buy at Wal-Mart are higher than the ticket price.

> Why don't the people who benefit from no crime pool their money and hire a
> security guard?

You mean the shoppers? The workers? Arguably the most efficient method of
pooling this money would be for Wal-Mart to charge a little bit more in order
to pay someone to patrol their own parking lot.

> Sources please. I know of one study about good effects.

I don't have sources for this, only first-hand experience. Smaller businesses
are owned locally. They order inventory locally, and they spend the majority
of their profits locally. Thus for the most part, money is being circulated
about in the small town and everyone is getting the goods and services they
need.

When Wal-Mart comes in, the merchandise is coming from not only outside the
town, but often outside the country. Any profits they make are distributed to
shareholders, or used for building more Wal-Marts elsewhere. By knocking
several local businesses (mechanic, produce stand, general store, pharmacy,
hardware store) out of business, they eliminate more jobs than they create
while siphoning money out of the town, money which would have otherwise just
been recirculated.

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eru
I know that purchasing locally may sound nice, but if going local was really
better: Why don't we shut off our markets completely?

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stcredzero
So, this is like "micro-finance" but with larger granularity suited to the
North American environment.

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ryansloan
But will you have to buy a full pallet of them from the aisle next to the
socks?

