

Rise of the Brogrammer - paulr
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/tech/web/brogrammers/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

======
victork2
The right title should be: The rise of the brogrammer in media.

The thing is there's a huge difference between the perception that people have
of a field and what happens in the field. It reminds me of how CSI (the show)
shows police work: super high tech. solving of cases. Sorry to break it, it's
not the case, it's long interviews with people and little lab work with
overused equipment. In the same spirit slowly since the Social Network this
notion of "cool programmer" has emerged in the media. The reality is that
we're still very far from it, and it's mostly guys sitting in front of desks
typing on keyboards (not so sexy, uh ?).

Anyway, this article is ridiculous, but I don't trust CNN anymore to provide
accurate news. Let them read tweets live, that's their line of work now.

~~~
clavalle
I always thought the whole brogrammer thing was kind of a nod to everything
that the community is not.

It seems akin to the "D&D enthusiasts are devil worshipers." hysteria back in
the day. More than a few people when asked what they did when they played by
those that had no idea what it was like would say something like "Oh. You
know; we don our blackest robes and light candles at midnight etc. etc." Of
course, this would get around and then you'd end up with 'that guy' trying to
join your gaming group.

No one seriously considers themselves a brogrammer and if they do, they just
mark themselves as someone not to be taken seriously...

Oh well, I guess we have to declare the joke over because now there is a weird
feedback loop creating a self fulfilling brogrammer subculture.

~~~
sp332
_I always thought the whole brogrammer thing was kind of a nod to everything
that the community is not._

That's what I thought at first, but there are actually programmers who do
that. There's been a lot of discussion here about it,
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3168038> and
<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3663244>

------
orthecreedence
I'm getting kind of sick of this media brogrammer fest. Some guys are sexist.
Some aren't. Some program. Some don't. Can we please just focus on the main
issue? Sexism in the workplace. Really, what does this have to do with
programming _at all_?

There's no "rise" of anything, except idiots who get big heads because they
got 2M in funding...and that's nothing new. The more attention we give them,
the bigger their heads get. As many get embarrassed by being called out, there
are just as many who would wear it as a badge of honor.

All the programmers I know are great guys who treat women with respect and
just want to focus on their work instead of having subservient big breasted
bimbos prancing around their office.

There's no epidemic here except bored journalists.

~~~
Tharkun
Ever since people started yapping about this "brogrammer"-crap I've been
paying more attention to my fellow programmer's behaviour. Most of them are
male, some of them are female, and one of them is a bit of both. One of them
is black. One of them is in a wheelchair. And another one is deaf. The one
thing they all have in common, is that they're geeks. I haven't noticed any of
this alleged sexism, racism or frat boy nonsense.

Sure, some of us like to drink. Some of us even drink what some might consider
"a lot", but then we live in a part of the world where beer is a socially
accepted lubricant legal for purchase at age 16.

I don't particularly like the tone of the these articles, associating beer
consumption with immature fratty/bratty behaviour. Nor do I like it when
people interpret the relative scarcity of programming females to sexism. Or --
in my area -- the scarcity of black programmers to racism.

I would really love to see some hard backed evidence/statistics about this,
instead of some contextless anecdotal bullshit.

Until someone can prove otherwise, programmers are no more
sexist/racist/bratty than anyone else from a similar social/educational
background.

To all you bored reporters, you might want to investigate cooks, bakers &
chocolatiers next, I hear they're an over-sexed bunch who engage on orgies on
a frequent basis.

Sigh.

~~~
wpietri
I don't care if my industry is more or less sexist or racist than average. I
care if it's sexist or racist _at all_.

Also, whether or not _you_ notice mistreatment of others is not the best
metric. Try asking people in those groups.

If you'd like to see an interesting analysis of the relative scarcity of
female computer scientists, this is a classic:
<http://people.mills.edu/spertus/Gender/why.html>

------
theorique
Most of the hype about this is that it plays against type - "you thought
programmers were shy neckbearded nerds? Ha! In reality they are hard drinking,
hard caffeinating, woman disrespecting fratboys!"

Both are stereotypes (with some basis in reality here and there). But of
course it makes a good story for the mainstream media. <sigh>

~~~
diminish
coming soon stereotypes; programmers leading in american high school prom
movies, becoming the prom king and getting the prom queen.

------
barryfandango
The whole "They used to be nerds and social misfits, but not anymore!" is
really old. It seems memories are short in the media.

"Geek is the new Chic" - USA Today, October 2003
<http://www.usatoday.com/life/2003-10-22-geek-chic_x.htm>

"The new Worker Elite" - Ad Age, November 1997
<http://www.qualitydigest.com/nov97/html/qualtech.html>

------
cafard
Oh, for the day when the brogrammers will follow the metrosexuals and soccer
moms into the memory hole...

------
joshaidan
I find this to be one of the silliest quotes in the article:

"Forget what you think you know about the benignly geeky computer programmer
who lives for the thrill of finding a single misplaced semicolon in thousands
of lines of code."

For as long as I've been programming, the art has been about more than syntax.
Although, while teaching new programmers, I find one of the biggest barriers
learning to program is getting stuck on syntax, and trying to memorize every
little syntactical detail. Better to focus on how to create an algorithm.

Perhaps that's why the writer of this article went into journalism rather than
programming.

------
sequoia
This article seems to just be a lazy rehashing of the Mother Jones story
www.motherjones.com/media/2012/04/silicon-valley-brogrammer-culture-sexist-
sxsw They mention the exact same examples ('bro down and crush' & bikini
shots) even. I'll admit, I didn't read the whole thing. I'm waiting for the
NPR Morning Edition rehashing, complete with a chuckling Steve Inskeep. :)

------
officialchicken
Should we stay in the background forever, and let the marketing people dictate
the future of tech, or make some serious attempt to drive tech into another
direction?

At some point you have to get people's attention - once that happens, maybe we
can see improvement. Until then, brogramming just makes assclowns easier to
spot.

------
Luyt
_"Now, I'm hearing people talk about being concerned about the number of
quote-unquote 'idea people' flooding the field."_

I'm not concerned at all. Ideas are just that: vapor. Show me a concrete
implementation. Someone has to actually build that.

~~~
viscanti
There's more open jobs for good programmers than there are good programmers.
The salary is also very competitive with most other industries. I'm surprised
we haven't seen more of a flood of people wanting to try their hands at
programming and startups.

------
jmsduran
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the "brogrammer" stereotype
stemmed from a rise of people within the tech industry that broke the
classical notion of a software geek. Individuals whom were excellent software
engineers, yet whose life did not revolve around a glowing computer screen;
and had other hobbies like surfing, biking, etc.

Anyway, the article on CNN is quite funny, but I'm slightly saddened in that
there are people who will read this and honestly believe that this is a real
problem.

~~~
prophetjohn
I suppose that if all it takes to be a brogrammer is to have hobbies that
don't revolve around a computer, then I'm pegged. Which is weird since I spent
almost my entire weekend playing video games. So maybe I'm a nerd after all.

------
jdost
While this is (from my experience) incredibly inaccurate of the programming
community at large. My fear is that it will encourage a perception of people
looking for a career to embrace this stereotype. People who read this article
may think "This is awesome, I definitely want to do this!" and a new wave of
people who think that "brogramming" is the norm will begin to seep into the
industry. Maybe the numbers will not be that much and it will allow a more
diverse culture.

------
batista
> _Rise of the Brogrammer (cnn.com)_

"Rise of another idiotic idea that applies to less of 0.1% of the population
of programmers, but makes for a nice headlines (or the idiots at media outlets
thing so".

Here, I fixed it for CNN.

------
horsehead
I just read this article. It's awesome. Yeah there are definitely problems
with the industry. I wonder, though, if some of the things mentioned (like the
frathouse like atmosphere) is a sort of response to the 'geekiness' associated
with programming. [Not that that in any way justifies sexism or boozing at
work, etc]

~~~
FuzzyDunlop
It's a consideration, what with the terms 'geek' and 'nerd' having negative
connotations (geek much less so).

'Brogramming' feels like a knee-jerk reaction to boot out the socially
awkward, reclusive stereotypes ignorantly associated with being technically
proficient.

Interesting to note that in its attempt to do this, it's merely exchanging one
set of stereotypes for another. It doesn't really solve the perception problem
these people seem to have.

~~~
krakensden
It doesn't solve anything _for the industry_ , but for the individual it lets
him demonstrate high social status.

