
Quitting Caffeine - mcculley
https://enki.org/2017/08/13/quitting-caffeine/
======
uptownfunk
I've been off Caffeine for a good two years now and have no plans of going
back.

Life runs too fast for me on caffeine, yes I can blow through work faster, but
when I was on caffeine it would feel like days, weeks, months would go by in
the blink of an eye.

I wasn't enjoying the moment.. and then I stopped drinking caffeine.

Life became more present for me, not slower in the bad sense, but that I was
able to relish every moment more, more aware... more conscious of what was
going on around me. My fuse also got really short when I was consuming
caffeine, I'd get into a lot of fights and arguments, since I've stopped, it's
really helped.

I still get all my work done and have time to spare, I'm working, going to
school and have an infant at home. So life after caffeine is definitely
possible.

~~~
nowherecat
Hm..reading this makes me wonder ... I noticed that life is running extremely
fast lately and I am having a hard time being "in the moment" ... and I drink
a lot of coffee. I really enjoy everything about coffee from roasting to
brewing though, so it would probably be quite hard giving it up. Anyway,
thanks for sharing this, I will take a long look at that.

~~~
endorphone
_I noticed that life is running extremely fast lately and I am having a hard
time being "in the moment" ... and I drink a lot of coffee._

I drink a lot of coffee. I'm a very in the moment person, meditate regularly,
enjoy and live in the moment, etc.

This is an approach to life thing that is quite orthogonal to whether you
drink coffee or not.

~~~
uptownfunk
I was saying that it worked _for me_ to stop. Not that you should all stop
drinking coffee. If it helps you then why stop. I was just sharing how
stopping helped me and that if you want to you can. Nor was I promoting a
quick fix. It's not a quick fix and was initially quite a difficult experience
for me.

And I disagree that they're orthogonal. There's definitely some correlation
between what you consume and your state of mind and awareness. (Don't believe
me? Eat a handful of chillies) It is why the Buddhist monks live such a
moderate lifestyle, would recommend chefs table episode 1 of the latest
season.

~~~
endorphone
"I was saying that it worked for me to stop."

Great. I was replying to someone else who took your statement to mean that
stopping coffee == enlightenment.

I'm not looking for an argument, but far too often on here people look for, or
push, an easy fix for larger problems. "I started working at a standing desk
and now I'm a 10x programmer", "I stopped watching TV and now I'm a great
artist", etc. But in reality the causation was "I realized I needed to make
change, and for now at least things are different but here's some proxy
symbolic thing". I realized that I needed to live healthier, and in doing so
wore gym shorts more often, so gym shorts make you healthier.

Regarding the Buddhist monks, be wary clutching onto something they did given
the mysticism, but it's notable that monks drink tea (and, in many cases,
coffee), and their precepts are against intoxicants like alcohol. And some of
the things they avoided were things like onions and garlic, which were
believed to make them aroused.

------
StanislavPetrov
What the author didn't mention, and I haven't seen mentioned in these
comments, are the extremely beneficial health effects of coffee (not caffeine,
decaf has shown the same benefits). Most significantly, studies have shown
that coffee reduces overall mortality rates significantly, with the reduced
chance of dying from any cause increasing with coffee consumption (up to a
point).

>Compared with nonconsumers, participants in the highest quartile of coffee
consumption had statistically significantly lower all-cause mortality (men:
HR, 0.88 [95% CI, 0.82 to 0.95]; P for trend < 0.001; women: HR, 0.93 [CI,
0.87 to 0.98]; P for trend = 0.009). Inverse associations were also observed
for digestive disease mortality for men (HR, 0.41 [CI, 0.32 to 0.54]; P for
trend < 0.001) and women (HR, 0.60 [CI, 0.46 to 0.78]; P for trend < 0.001).
Among women, there was a statistically significant inverse association of
coffee drinking with circulatory disease mortality (HR, 0.78 [CI, 0.68 to
0.90]; P for trend < 0.001) and cerebrovascular disease mortality (HR, 0.70
[CI, 0.55 to 0.90]; P for trend = 0.002) and a positive association with
ovarian cancer mortality (HR, 1.31 [CI, 1.07 to 1.61]; P for trend = 0.015).
In the EPIC Biomarkers subcohort, higher coffee consumption was associated
with lower serum alkaline phosphatase; alanine aminotransferase; aspartate
aminotransferase; γ-glutamyltransferase; and, in women, C-reactive protein,
lipoprotein(a), and glycated hemoglobin levels.

[http://annals.org/aim/article/2643435/coffee-drinking-
mortal...](http://annals.org/aim/article/2643435/coffee-drinking-
mortality-10-european-countries-multinational-cohort-study)

In addition, according to other studies, coffee prevents and/or reverses liver
damage due to alcohol consumption. One study suggested an extremely
significant (44%) reduction in occurrences of cirrhosis among those who drink
2 cups of coffee a day.

[http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coffee-liver-
cirrho...](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coffee-liver-cirrhosis-
idUSKCN0VR2JN)

When considering whether or not to give up your morning coffee, consider the
good with the bad.

~~~
cvsh
I wonder if some of this is due to a subtle intervening variable like
conscious or subconscious (i.e. fidgeting) decisions to exercise more
accumulated over time because of increased energy, rather than caffeine per
se.

~~~
epmaybe
In epidemiological studies we refer to these variables as confoundimg
variables. There's another term as well that I can't seem to remember.

When you try and correlate one specific variable, like coffee, to trends like
mortality, you must control for every other variable. Socioeconomic factors
like income generally cause confounding of your results.

For example, there was a recent paper that showed that women with gum disease
were at higher risk for certain cancers. Is it a wide stretch to believe that
people with gum disease may be of lower socioeconomic status, and also
probably not take care of their diets and health anyways?

Can someone link the PDF? My login for the acp journal article the parent
linked to describing the health correlations won't work for some reason. I
want to see how they controlled for some of these factors.

Edit: I found the full PDF through my institution. They note that their study
may contain confounds, and note possible ones that they tried to control for.
The paper isn't perfect, but I applaud the authors for being as thorough as
they could. That being said, this sort of article is bound to go viral as soon
as possible, with many misleading headlines.

~~~
tertius
> epidemiological studies

Tough field... How do you survive with the overwhelming stigma of doubt
connected to it?

~~~
epmaybe
I'm not involved in any epidemiological studies, simply a medical student :).

But that being said, I think a lot of the stigma comes from researchers using
biased data, or acting unethically with their data. Good epidemiological
studies exist that have improved the health of the general public.

As a guide for new readers of public health research, here are my suggestions:

1\. Read the abstract. Think about the claims that are being made. For
example, if someone tells me that drinking 2 cups of coffee a day leads to a
lower risk of cancer, my first thought is: what kinds of things do people
drinking 2 cups of coffee a day do that would lower their risk of cancer?
Could they have a different diet? Do they make more money, leading to them
being able to afford preventative health? Do coffee drinkers just have more
awareness about their health? Do their regular schedules and sleep cycles give
them a health advantage? Keep these questions in mind when reading the rest of
the paper. See if the researchers tried to control for these easy alternative
explanations.

2\. Get a fundamental understanding of some of the statistical terms and
calculations used, and make sure you are not misinterpreting them. Thinks like
odds ratio, attributable risk, relative risk, etc. Each of them means
something specific, and should not be used for extrapolation. Google is your
friend!

3\. Read the paper as completely as you can!

4\. Especially look at the discussion section for maybe reasons that their
data isn't great, or also discussing alternative explanations. Also look at
their appendix for their exclusion criteria. This can be a clue towards
whether or not a researcher is being genuine about their dataset or data
collection. In the ACP article about coffee drinkers, there were quite a few
exclusions made, and the population they pulled data from seemed biased (women
who went to mammogram screenings might care a bit more about their health than
the average person)

That's all I have for now. I'd welcome any actual researcher to provide
feedback and suggestions!

------
SOLAR_FIELDS
One of the more interesting comments in the article is in regards to the
social stigma of only consuming water during meals - people who have quit
alcohol for various reasons have faced the same stigma when going out with
friends.

I've found that ordering something that has little to no calories or substance
goes a long way to alleviate these fears (like tonic or sparkling water).

Because something like this still costs money, it helps convince the purchaser
that they aren't appearing to be "cheap" by only ordering water. Topo Chico (a
sparkling water similar to San Pellegrino) is a favorite among recovering
alcoholics in my area.

~~~
pdog
_> One of the more interesting comments in the article is in regards to the
social stigma of only consuming water during meals - people who have quit
alcohol for various reasons have faced the same stigma when going out with
friends._

That stigma is entirely self-perception. No one cares or even notices what
anyone else drinking.

~~~
jessriedel
This is definitely false. I've had multiple women tell me the dominant thing
they noticed on a first date was that I didn't order a drink. Likewise, many
people can attest that the social encouragement to get everyone drinking in
group situations is very explicit. Shared consumption of intoxicating
substances is closely monitored by everyone in the group, and is not same
thing as the true fact that no one cares whether you have a brown or black
belt.

~~~
exhilaration
I overheard one of my male co-workers telling a female co-worker that he
doesn't drink. Her reaction was a literal "eww".

That's when I learned that - much like smokers - drinkers were a tribe.

~~~
seanp2k2
Were? Smoking isn't very cool anymore, but drinking is still pretty cool. It's
losing popularity in some circles, but in pop culture, rappers are still in
the club ordering bottles, and not of Voss. Weed has a big chance to shake up
the alcohol industry, because you can smoke like a Cummins 12-valve until you
pass out, then feel fine the next morning. You also don't die if you have too
much to smoke. It does have to do some work to get out of the goofy / high
schooler / college bro image, but I think they can make it classy (esp stuff
like vape pens...the whole blow torch + dabber + water pipe thing has pretty
limited appeal because it's too involved and conspicuous).

Coming soon to a state near you.

~~~
sulam
I am suspicious that smoking pot is just as bad for your lungs as smoking
tobacco and we simply don't have decades of evidence yet. It stands to reason
that inhaling burnt organics is going to have many of the same effects
regardless of which plant is involved.

~~~
enobrev
That's likely true, although with legalization has come the popularity of -
and even preference to - vape pens and edibles, which weren't as accessible.

------
gedrap
I am a coffee drinker but I don't really get boost or anything. Nor do I feel
tired or anything else that could be called withdrawal during the weekends,
when I don't drink it.

For me, making a cup of coffee is just a... ritual of sorts. Weighting the
beans, pouring over water, all these things. And I really enjoy the taste,
trying different beans. I don't want to sound pretentious, it's just a hobby
for me.

Maybe there are some alternatives to it (tea?) that have lower impact on
health over time, but I haven't really explored it.

~~~
PacketPaul
Two days is not enough. Try being off it for a week. I bet you will feel
terible on day 4.

~~~
acchow
I drink 3 cups of coffee every day. Often when traveling I'll have occasional
periods of 3-5 days without any coffee whatsoever. Don't feel any different.

------
emilecantin
I drink coffee because I enjoy it, not to give me a "boost" in the morning. I
limit myself to 1 large mug per day, with the (very) occasional afternoon cup.
I don't notice any difference between my energy levels before / after my
morning coffee, nor on days I skip it. I get a headache in the early afternoon
when I skip it, though, so I'm definitely addicted.

I wonder if the author's energy level issues were due to his "ever-increasing
consumption".

~~~
grecy
Do you notice you are more tired in the afternoon on days you have had coffee
in the morning?

For the life of me at around 4pm I start to feel snoozy if I had one in the
morning.

~~~
maccard
I thought that originally, but turns out my lunchtime routine had more of an
effect than my coffee consumption. Getting up and away from my desk for 30
minutes has far more of an impact than whether I have 0 1 or 2 coffees that
day.

------
projektir
> A caveat to all of these points: I also now consume very little sugar and
> alcohol and I meditate regularly.

Things like this generally make me wary. Not so much because of them causing
side effects that are harder to disentangle, but their adoption indicating
that the author is fairly stabilized, which is a giant side effect in itself.

~~~
throwaway0071
I have a fairly unhealthy lifestyle. When I started getting panic attacks,
trembling, palpitations, skin rashes, walking up 5x during the night, feeling
exhausted all day, etc, I stopped taking caffeine... And did not change a
single other thing.

It took me over a month to few "normal" again.

First week: headaches, back pain, vomiting, nausea, cramps, etc.

Second week: feeling like shit. Had no energy for anything.

Third week: a resemblance of being normal again.

Fourth week: feeling like I was at 60% of my previous energy levels and
thinking "this sucks but if this is the new normal, I can get used to it".

Second month: energy levels are back, never feel sleepy again, focus is back
completely, etc. I'm even thinking about gym, running, etc.

So this is my data point. From 3-4 expressos and of caffeinated sodas to zero.

~~~
pgsandstrom
This could be explained by regression towards the mean. When your health
problems reached an extreme they were very likely to eventually get better.
This might have happened regardless of any changes to your lifestyle.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean)

It really is a very fascinating phenomenon. My friend who works as a
psychologist have noticed that the most "successful" work is to always accept
crisis patients immediately. If they have to queue for 2 months before getting
clinical help, they have often improved by themselves, and it is therefore
harder to reduce their problems further.

~~~
throwaway0071
I'm having a hard time figuring out your point for this specific situation.
Are you saying the list of symptoms I described would eventually go away by
itself?

~~~
trendia
(I'm not op).

It's not that there's a regression-to-mean force that eliminates abnormal
symptoms. It's more that the symptoms have some underlying cause that will fix
itself over time.

If you start some intervention (such as stopping caffeine) at the same time
you are naturally getting better, then you nay false attribute your getting
better to the intervention rather than to its real cause: our bodies tend to
bounch back from illness.

------
askvictor
I occasionally quit caffeine as a way to recalibrate the tolerance that
develops over time. But, within certain limits (my general consumption is 1-2
coffees a day, sometimes 3-4 if super tired or when exercising), there's very
few negatives for most people, and quite a number of benefits. Nice
explanatory video on the matter:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTVE5iPMKLg)

~~~
tnecniv
I also find that my tolerance drops very quickly when I quit. When I'm on
vacation, I don't drink much coffee because my schedule is different. I find
after 2-3 days, I no longer am in withdrawal and when I come back from a 1-2
week break, my tolerance is very low.

------
virtualwhys
Quit coffee 6 months ago after 20 years on the daily (generally 2 very strong
home made double or triple espressos).

It's not so much that eliminating caffeine is a life changing experience, but
rather, you're unchained from the _necessity_ to, above all else, get your
caffeine fix. Some people can take it or leave it, go without for days at a
stretch, which was not at all the case for me -- the only time I ever went
without was when bed ridden or on a meditation retreat.

In terms of energy, the reserves are deeper, since the energy depleting
caffeine rush is gone. Also, quit consuming refined sugar, which may be a
bigger win than quitting caffeine -- I think it's closer to the natural state
that humans experienced long before concentrated Xs came into being.

You have to want to quit. If you're younger you probably can withstand the
racing heart, having to urinate frequently, insomnia, mood swings, and other
negative side effects that inevitably affect the aging caffeine drinker.

~~~
swah
How old are you? I love my coffee but I have those problems too.

On my short experiment quitting coffee (30 days IIRC), nothing really changed,
so I restarted using it (which always feels great).

~~~
virtualwhys
> How old are you?

45

> On my short experiment quitting coffee (30 days IIRC), nothing really
> changed

What has changed for me is that I no longer feel shackled to a pernicious
habit. The caffeine addicted mind is very persuasive: "it's healthy, don't
stop", "it's normal, everyone drinks coffee", "but the withdrawl symptoms", "I
won't be as productive", etc.

------
cannonpr
I find it hard to take articles around this seriously when they don't take
into consideration the huge variability humans show in metabolising coffee and
it's related health effects. A light introduction can be found here:
[https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/for-coffee-
drinker...](https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/for-coffee-drinkers-the-
buzz-may-be-in-your-genes/) A more in depth can be found:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4242593/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4242593/)
It's all about CYP1A2

~~~
mcculley
You make a good point. I've had my genome sampled by 23andMe, so I went back
and looked at my report. I updated my post to point out that my results might
not be the same as those for others.

~~~
cannonpr
Interesting, thanks for the comment, actually I started reading on this
because of 23andMe as well and I'm on the opposite spectrum, which means
coffee doesn't affect me much, the same can't be said of my partner who has
like you also quit btw.

------
phatbyte
I love coffee, "wake up and smell the coffee" has a true meaning to me. I
usually drink one or two cups of black (no sugar) coffee every morning, and 2
espressos during the rest of the day.

I exercise on a daily basis, I eat well and I go to bed on time and I usually
sleep between 7-8 hours.

I don't have the same side-effects most people talk here, thankfully, because
the smell of a just made home-made coffee is one the best things ever :P

------
skrebbel
Quitting caffeine is hard, but I found a workaround: get the flu.

If you're like me, when you're sick in bed, the last thing you'll want is
coffee. By the end of your flu, you'll also have gotten off caffeine and
you'll have ascribed the withdrawal symptoms to the flu. Done! Now go buy some
decaf :-)

~~~
arooaroo
My father quit smoking this way.

~~~
52-6F-62
I quit smoking similarly -- a bit of a hangover, an illness, followed by a
terrible week of digestive issues (likely due to the quitting smoking) and
after the week, not starting again wasn't a problem.

Now I wish I'd never done it in the first place, but here we are.

I think it just comes down to feeling unable to procure the item of your
addiction -- and the mental position to want to leave it behind. I couldn't
properly quit until that point... pure resolve. Pure resolve, and being stuck
in bed in terrible pain for a week (haha?)

------
blatherard
I've also been off of caffeine for about two years, for a few reasons (anxiety
reduction, desire to be free of chemical dependencies, and especially sleep
improvement). It took me about three weeks of depression and lethargy, but was
totally worth it. My sleep especially is much-improved, and I'd say that my
anxiety levels are generally lower.

The main thing is that you need to get enough sleep at night.

If you're interested, I found some support on reddit,
[http://www.reddit.com/r/decaf](http://www.reddit.com/r/decaf).

~~~
spraak
Thank you!

------
crehn
As for me, I enjoy drinking coffee and I enjoy drinking alcohol. They're small
pleasures of life that contribute to my overall happiness.

~~~
roel_v
"As for me, I enjoy drinking coffee and I enjoy drinking alcohol. They're
small pleasures of life that contribute to my overall happiness."

Yeah - it's like the old saying "it's easy to live to 100 years old, just give
up all the things that make you want to live until 100'.

~~~
graphitezepp
I am typically very health conscious, even an aspiring sort of pseudo-
vegetarian, with the exception of cured meat. Keep hearing about how bad the
stuff is for you but you can pry my prosciutto from my cold dead hands.

------
mnm1
I only drank coffee regularly for a few months in my life and the past five
years I've removed all caffeine (that I'm aware of) from my diet except for
special occasions where I need to stay up for safety reasons, usually driving
long distances (extremely rare). It definitely helps as I have insomnia. The
insomnia did not go away, but I have noticed a huge improvement. When I do
have caffeine it wires me up the whole day into the night, even if I drink it
in the morning. I have no problems with energy or anything like that and also
sometimes do the intermittent fasting the author talks about. All in all, I
agree that it's a huge improvement. I'm also not dependent which is a huge
plus and it saves money. I think it's definitely worth trying, especially for
people that are consuming many cups of coffee throughout the day. Of course,
as the author points out, if you are going to try it, make sure you get enough
sleep. Focusing on getting enough sleep, I find, is a much better energy
boosting technique (for the next day) than caffeine or anything else for that
matter.

~~~
jeffwass
Coincidentally I just decided a few days ago to ditch caffeine for awhile.

Last week I had terrible sleep, from 3-5 hours a night. Even though I was
exhausted during the day, I still couldn't fall asleep at night.

I only drink two cups a day, with sometimes a Coke at lunch. But might be my
old age that is making me hypersensitive to caffeine. Back in college I could
drink cup after cup and still fall asleep when I was ready.

So I'm stopping caffeine for awhile to see how it goes.

~~~
mnm1
In my experience, sleep definitely gets worse with age. I often can't fall
asleep even when exhausted or wake up multiple times sometimes unable to get
back to sleep. That's why I put such a premium on it. Sleep decides at least
50 to 75% of how my day will be, maybe more. It's by far the most important
bodily function, imo. Exercise is second and can undo many of the effects of
bad sleep temporarily, but there's nothing like a good night's sleep. I would
not skimp on it. The anti sleep culture that exists is horror and hell to me
but to each his own.

------
PacketPaul
I love coffee ... when I'm addicted to caffeine. I found when I get off of
caffeine my love of coffee disappears.

I've been on/off caffeine numerous times. Mostly because I have a big backpack
trip where obtaining caffeine is a pain. It takes exactly a week for me with
days 3-6 being miserable. I feel I am not fully "there" almost as if I'm an
observer in my own body.

There are two advantages I see in being off caffeine. First you are not
dependent on a drug. Second, if you do need the drug for a rare occasion
(maybe driving late into the night etc.) it is there for you. Being off
caffeine then drinking a cup of coffee gives you a huge jolt.

I got back on caffeine recently to see if it would help me lose weight. It did
not. Now I'm fat and addicted.

~~~
thanatropism
> There are two advantages I see in being off caffeine. First you are not
> dependent on a drug. Second, if you do need the drug for a rare occasion
> (maybe driving late into the night etc.) it is there for you. Being off
> caffeine then drinking a cup of coffee gives you a huge jolt.

This is my exact experience with the various kinds of ADHD stimulant meds.

------
maxxxxx
The good thing about going off caffeine is that it works well when you have
some from time. For example, when I have a long drive ahead of me I get some
Starbucks. I am so sensitive to caffeine now that it keeps me awake the whole
drive (and a few hours more unfortunately).

~~~
amelius
For staying awake I can also recommend ice cream OR chewing gum.

edit: not at the same time

~~~
blatherard
My favorite ice cream flavor as a child was Pink Bubblegum at Baskin Robbins:
[https://www.baskinrobbins.com/content/baskinrobbins/en/produ...](https://www.baskinrobbins.com/content/baskinrobbins/en/products/icecream/flavors/pink_bubblegum.html)

~~~
wiredfool
Holy crap I hated that flavor when it was in.

(former BR scooper. It got _everywhere_)

------
5kyn3t
I think the supplements and alternatives, which are mentioned in the article
are a bit weird...I think those are sports-products, and not real alternatives
to coffee.

I also want to reduce my caffeine/coffee intake, but I want to have the "same
feeling" as when I drink coffee...

For this I drink the following: * My girlfriend showed me Caro Coffee (wheat-
basis): [http://amzn.to/2w8RhDu](http://amzn.to/2w8RhDu) You make it like
instant coffee with hot water (and milk/sugar)

* Yogi Tea (chocolate-taste) [http://amzn.to/2wZCVSP](http://amzn.to/2wZCVSP) Usually I drink this in winter.. But I'm not sure whether it is completly caffeine free.

* Eimalzin (malt-cocoa) [http://amzn.to/2i3bTrs](http://amzn.to/2i3bTrs) ok thats just cocoa.. still I like it from time to time

* Zotter (various drinking chocolates) [http://amzn.to/2w5W7SD](http://amzn.to/2w5W7SD) hmm very tasty! but a bit "heavy", so I only drink them from time to time.

But I am always happy to find good tasting alternatives to coffee... Do you
have any suggestions?

~~~
dEnigma
Just a bit of nitpicking: Caro Coffee is made from roasted barley, malted
barley, chicory, and rye; not wheat.

Wikipedia has a list of coffee substitutes[0], but the only one I know and can
recommend is barley malt coffee, which you've already mentioned.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_substitute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_substitute)

------
gfodor
One thing that was striking to me when quitting caffeine (after drinking
coffee consistently for years every day) was how after a week or two the
feeling you have when waking up is completely different. I had always assumed
when you wake up it was normal to feel terrible until the morning coffee. Not
so. Off caffeine, a proper nights sleep will have you up and active right
away.

~~~
majormajor
> Off caffeine, a proper nights sleep will have you up and active right away.

This is not universally true.

I've experienced mornings in four different cases. Chronologically: drinking
lots of soda, dropping caffeine and taking Adderall, consuming basically no
stimulants for a year or so other than the occasional soda once or twice a
month, and drinking black coffee and/or green tea regularly.

They've all been universally pretty awful, with still an hour of snooze button
needed at most, but caffeine by itself has been the least bad both for
mornings (including compared to no stimulant consumption) and in terms of
overall side effects.

By far the worst regular day-to-day experience is the caffeine+sugar combo,
though. If you can tolerate your caffeine without sugar, it can be quite nice.

(The worst absolute experience is a cold-turkey dropping of amphetamines for a
weekend to reset a growing tolerance. Be prepared to watch a lot of TV, eat a
lot of cheetos, and have very little desire or ability for serious thinking.)

~~~
ljw1001
Assuming you wake with an alarm, the biggest impact on how you feel when you
first wake is where you were in your sleep cycle. In deep or REM sleep you
will feel lousy.

------
kc10
I only started drinking coffee two years ago. First it was once or twice a
week, then it became everyday.

About 6 months ago I started having slight muscle tremors, my doctor said it
could be because of stress. I didn't tell him I started having too much coffee
(nor he asked me).

But the tremors kind of increased slowly. I read on HN about some guy who had
similar problem with caffeine shots. It then struck them that coffee could be
the problem.

Now I rarely drink coffee and tremors are also gone.

~~~
charsifood
Caffeine increases excretion of calcium and magnesium [1]. This is why some
caffeine pills are pressed with ~75mg calcium.

Muscle tremors could be a sign of magnesium and/or calcium deficiency, so it's
likely that you were losing too many minerals and not making up for it in your
diet.

[1]
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7836625](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7836625)

------
rm_-rf_slash
I "quit" caffeine while dealing with a mysterious and persistent nausea which
ended up being mild food allergies.

Either way, before I knew what was going on, I got frustrated at my textbook
healthiness yielding no answers, went off the low-carb deep and and cut out
grains and sugars almost entirely from my diet.

Because my insulin/glucose levels have now moved from the penthouse to a
basement apartment, I no longer have dramatic swings in energy throughout the
day. My energy at 7AM is roughly the same energy I have by half after 4. I
don't need caffeine or sugar to push me though a tired spell, and I haven't
felt a caffeine/insulin crash in months.

Caffeine control is one thing but insulin is the body's top dog energy
regulator. If you have energy issues, start by focusing on insulin, not
caffeine.

~~~
mcculley
I'm the original author. I should have mentioned in my post that I've also
been consuming very few daily carbs for a few years now. I experience the
effects you describe now when I do indulge in a doughnut or the like. It's
hard to tell now how much of my even mood is due to quitting caffeine and how
much is due to steady insulin levels. I do feel that I benefit from being very
cautious about consuming all of the above (caffeine, sugar, carbs).

------
costcopizza
I love coffee-- the smell, the ritual, the taste, but even 1 cup turns my
anxiety from a normal 2/10 to a 7/10.

On top of that I don't even feel more focused or productive from caffeine.
Actually I get easily overwhelmed and rather indecisive. My brain is not made
for stimulants, as adderall makes me tired.

I'm going to try taking theanine with a cup tomorrow, if that doesn't improve
things then I'm off caffeine for a long time.

~~~
grp
Same reasons why I quit coffee 7 years ago.

It's not even hard. Coffee is only useful for zombies.

~~~
swah
I love the taste, and even the most popular drink around here ("mate") has
caffeine. So quitting would be hard.

------
zitterbewegung
Started drinking water instead of drinking soda and coffee very often. Never
looked back. I may drink a soda once or twice but I really don't miss it at
this point. I got into this after using the MyWater app
[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mywater/id665244736?mt=8](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mywater/id665244736?mt=8)

------
rubber_duck
>There have been many demanding days in the last couple of years where I felt
that if I would just give in and allow myself a cup of coffee, I would get
more done.

Caffeine doesn't do anything for me anymore except stop dependence side
effects - been thinking about ditching it and using modafinil on days like
these - seems relatively side effect free and easy to get pharma grade stuff.

~~~
nnd
Modafinil is relatively side effects free? Are there any studies of long-term
modafinil use effects?

~~~
theatraine
With long-term use Stevens–Johnson syndrome is a risk.

~~~
JohnBooty
I'm not a doctor, but is SJS a long-term risk of *afinil?

Or is it the symptom of a drug sensitivity that some people have and some
people don't?

All the research I did indicated that it was an extremely rare reaction that
certain people would have, not that it was a result of long-term use.

------
tekromancr
I have a lot of problems trying to quit caffeine. Ever since I was a young
child, they gave me really powerful amphetamines to get me to focus. Then when
I turned 18 it became much more difficult to obtain.

In the US, Ritalin/dexadrine/adderall are all class II controlled substances
with similar restrictions to cocaine or fentynal, so in order to get it I
would need to have a doctor's appointment every month, which wasn't only
inconvenient but super expensive once I lost my mom's insurance.

So, dipshit that I am, I replaced it with megadoses of caffeine. At my peak, I
was consuming 1g (yes, gram) of the stuff every day in the form of energy
drinks. I am now down to 280-560mg per day on average. I have tried not
drinking any, but the inability to focus and headaches mean that trying to
cutback seriously puts my job at risk.

I really wish I could just get back on ritalin or something so that I can give
my poor heart a rest, but I am afraid to walk into a doctors office after not
going for years and asking for drugs.

~~~
nkkollaw
Jesus, that's like 10 espressos!

I'm at >= 5. Pretty bad.

I also feels like caffeine doesn't have much effect anymore.

Any way to make quitting easier?

~~~
geebee
I quit a heavy coffee habit recently.

I cut my caffeine in half each day (and went from a quarter cup to zero) I did
experience some withdrawal symptoms, including headache, lethargy, and some
mild but notable depression. The worst of it was over in a couple of days, I'd
say the full deal took about a week and a half. Not a load of fun but honestly
not that bad considering I was a heavy coffee drinker for 30 years.

I'd recommend drawing down a little slower than 50% a day. Maybe a third or
quarter? Either way don't go cold turkey definitely draw down.

~~~
ctrijueque
I've been out out caffeine since January because I did something similar (and
got similar withdrawal symptoms): I started by mixing regular coffee beans
with decaf ones. First two weeks I used a 25/75% decaf to regular mix, next
two weeks 50/50%, then 75%/25%, etc.

The key for my was finding good quality (and expensive) decaf coffe beans.
After triying differente brands I settled with Lavazza.

------
tapanjk
This article reminds me of what I have been wanting to do for a while, but
have not succeeded yet in spite of having tried this a few times. The goal is
to prevent large fluctuations in energy and mood. My plan is to:

\- Quit caffeine

\- Quit sugar (in all forms e.g. refined sugar, honey, fructose syrup etc.)

\- Consume alcohol only occasionally

\- Consume white flour only occasionally

\- Meditate

> I don’t think the ketones are necessary, but it helps me with running while
> fasted.

Our body generates ketones when carbohydrate intake is reduced enough, and it
feels great. Perhaps the author's tinnitus _may_ benefit from reduction in
carb intake [1]. It is a common misconception to attribute certain benefits to
presence of ketones while the actual benefit comes from the absence of sugar
metabolism.

[1] [https://www.tinnitusformula.com/library/sugar-metabolism-
aff...](https://www.tinnitusformula.com/library/sugar-metabolism-affects-
tinnitus/)

~~~
Freak_NL
That's quite a list you want to undertake. Most of these seem perfectly
attainable, but you might want to cut yourself some slack on the sugar bit.
Way too much sugar is added to processed foods of course, and cutting back on
that is beneficial for anyone, but sugar can be part of a healthy diet too; it
naturally occurs in fruit (would you omit almost all fruits from your diet?)
and frankly, our body simply uses it like any other carbohydrates if you don't
overeat (which are broken down to sugar to fuel us!). It's fine in moderate
quantities, and the occasional treat won't harm you if you eat sensibly.

~~~
DiThi
> it naturally occurs in fruit

With fiber. The human body has evolved to receive fructose with fiber. When
you give it fructose without fiber, it doesn't satiate and it's metabolized in
a similar way to alcohol (except for the cognitive effects).

------
thomasfl
I am 50 and I am addicted to the worlds favorite psychoactive drug, caffeine.
It ruins my sleep. It ruins my concentration. It makes me have to visit the
toilet way too often. Day and night. If you can stop, then do it.

------
nnd
I've been drinking about 1000mg of caffeine a day and developed tolerance to
the point where I don't feel any effects anymore.

Recently, I tried to quit caffeine for 10 days and didn't feel the need for
it, so I'm hardly addicted to it, rather I just enjoy the taste of it. Since
I'm completely tolerant, to the effects of caffeine at this point, trying a
decaf could be an interesting option. Has anyone researched health implication
of drinking decaf?

------
Waterluvian
Every so often I hit a ceiling where I worry that I'm going to kill myself
with caffeine and hypertension or whatever so I stop for a week. Recently I
took 400mg in pill form at 10pm in order to keep me up until 2am. I get 6-8
hours of sleep a night and everything else about my life is within the error
margins of "healthy". I just like stretching my day, and find that caffeine's
efficacy has dropped off a cliff since university.

------
aaronchall
I'm addicted to black tea. If I don't have two cups, daily, I get bad
headaches.

It's not caffeine, because coffee doesn't substitute, neither does green tea.

So it must be some stimulant unique to black tea.

Maybe theobromine, theophylline, or L-Theanine? (see
[http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/stimulants-in-
tea](http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/stimulants-in-tea) \- maybe a
questionable source...)

------
dannysu
I've never been on coffee. I only drink water since... forever.

It is true that getting coffee is kind of a social situation. But I'm ok just
getting a hot chocolate or some other drink when I'm with people.

The thing about less ability to compensate lack of sleep. The way I deal with
that isn't with sugar or caffeine. I just take naps. If I only got between 3-5
hours of sleep, I might need a 15-min nap but once I get that I'm good to go
again.

~~~
mcculley
I'm the original author. I can't nap, unfortunately. I feel groggy after a nap
and it messes up my sleep schedule. I envy those of you who can benefit from a
nap.

I'll update my post to explain that.

------
k-ian
cached version:
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fenki.org%2F2017%2F08%2F13%2Fquitting-
caffeine%2F&oq=cache%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fenki.org%2F2017%2F08%2F13%2Fquitting-
caffeine%2F&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.1551j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

------
harryf
Google cached version as it won't load for me
[https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yLb33Z...](https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yLb33ZgbkOYJ:https://enki.org/2017/08/13/quitting-
caffeine/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ch)

------
Blinks-
One of the things that always gets to me when I try to stop drinking
coffee/tea is that I end up feeling tired all day and then can't get to sleep
at night. Apparently sleeplessness is a side effect of caffeine withdrawal,
it's almost comical. Then again I have never tried slowly reducing my intake
over a month, might be worth a try.

~~~
chrishacken
I've found that going cold-turkey is actually way easier than trying to ween
yourself off of it. Reducing my intake only makes me want it more and more
because I already have a little bit of it in my system. While going cold-
turkey sucks for a 2-3 days, after you're off of it you have almost no urge
what-so-ever to drink it.

~~~
jhayward
Going cold turkey while increasing physical activity for a week or two is
super effective at resetting my sleep patterns and daytime energy levels.

------
guiomie
I've been off coffee for 1 month now. I've drank one or 2 decaff cortado or
americanos because I like the taste of coffee, but I feel like decaf doesn't
taste as good.

I was a good week with intense headaches, it was scary. I used to drink 1 or 2
a day, nothing more.

As for the link, it doesn't work ... hackernews DoS induced?

~~~
roceasta
Btw to eliminate withdrawal headaches one only needs a small amount of
caffeine. I've taken one caffeine pill per day for about a week (~100mg daily
depending on brand which is less than one cup of coffee equivalent).

~~~
guiomie
Well, the headaches were annoying, but it seems so much simpler to just go
cold turkey.

------
SirensOfTitan
The author had some good reasons, but drug dependence on its own seems like a
pretty poor reason to stop drinking caffeine unless you have other symptoms.
There exists a great deal of consensus on Coffee's effect on health:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/upshot/more-consensus-
on-...](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/upshot/more-consensus-on-coffees-
benefits-than-you-might-think.html)

... people tend to build a great deal of psychological dependence on friends
and significant others as well. Dependence does not seem a bad thing on its
own.

~~~
6d6b73
"The total economic impact of the coffee industry in the United States in 2015
was $225.2 billion" [1]

So it's not hard to imagine that in our fucked up world at least some of the
"research" on coffee is "fake news".

[1] [http://www.ncausa.org/Industry-Resources/Economic-
Impact](http://www.ncausa.org/Industry-Resources/Economic-Impact)

------
horsecaptin
I seem to have more energy than all my coworkers who drink coffee / tea every
day at work. Here is how I do it:

\- Get as much sleep as I need. Most days I need 8 hours. Some days I need 9.
So I plan accordingly.

\- Lunches that are light on carbs. Large amounts of potato, bread and or rice
put me to sleep. On most days I have some sort of a salad for lunch with soup
and a small piece of bread.

That is all. Plenty of sleep and not overeating. There are other things: a
relatively active lifestyle, exercise, walks etc.. but the two items I
mentioned above make the greatest difference in-terms of being awake and
remaining alert all day for me.

~~~
taneq
> \- Get as much sleep as I need. Most days I need 8 hours. Some days I need
> 9. So I plan accordingly.

If you're getting 8-9 hours a night you don't _need_ coffee. I bet your
coworkers who are mainlining the stuff either have small kids, or very active
social lives.

~~~
horsecaptin
You might be right. It seems like everyone else at my office needs coffee all
the time.

------
micheljansen
I love coffee, but not caffeine. I used to drink a _lot_ of coffee – up to 8
cups a day – until I began to notice the negative effect it was having on my
creativity.

On caffeine, my thinking is somehow more "linear", taking the shortest path to
solutions. Lateral thinking is more difficult and I am more easily distracted.

For this reason, I have since cut down my caffeine consumption to 2-3 cups a
day. I wish decaf tasted better. Then I would drink coffee all day. Sadly I
have still not found any that I truly enjoy.

------
Drdrdrq
> I now use a workout supplement without caffeine. There are very few of
> these, I’ve found. Pretty much every supplement that gives you some kind of
> bump has caffeine in it. I have found that my energy level is improved by
> ensuring that I consume lots of electrolytes.

Interesting. I would be more wary of using (artificial) workout supplements
than indulging in (moderate quantities of) caffeine, sugar or alcohol. With
latter at least we know the side effects. But then, we each choose our own
poison I guess...

------
nfriedly
I consume caffeine pretty rarely, so when I do, it has a nice kick!

In the morning, I usually eat some fruit to help me wake up. I generally just
drink water throughout the day.

------
simonklitj
Wondering if Northern Europe has developed some sort of genetic
immunity/reduced influence to caffeine. With the Netherlands having a an
average of 2.4 cups of coffee a day, one would expect chronic insomnia, yet
this is not the case.

I live in Denmark, where the average is 1.27 cups a day, and I oftentimes go
over 10 cups a day of coffee, and I know a handful of people who're either up
there with me, or drink even more.

~~~
sambe
As I understand it, the research is not completely conclusive but the claim is
that there is significant habituation effect. I've also heard that
restlessness/insomnia are just as likely to be caused by withdrawal effects in
the evening as they are by high consumption. Withdrawal effects have
similarities to high usage, and anecdotally if I'm drinking a lot of coffee
but stop early in the day I often have problems sleeping.

~~~
simonklitj
Huh, seems almost comical that withdrawal produces these symptoms. Thanks for
your insight :-)

------
officefapper
I quit coffee when I realized that it was greatly exacerbating some anxiety
issues. I do have the occasional tea though, and the occasional decaf.

------
anonu
I love coffee but have often thought of quitting as well. I found that
skipping coffee every other day does two things. First, it keeps the ever
increasing coffee/caffeine requirement in check. Second, your enjoyment of
that cup goes up so much more.

My life mantra is "everything in moderation". This method fits in a bit better
with just quitting cold turkey.

~~~
lkozma
"everything in moderation", including moderation.

------
dom96
I personally never drink coffee. I do however drink tea and other drinks with
caffeine in them (mostly Coca Cola). But I do wonder how much of a perceptible
difference drinking coffee makes. I'm also curious whether you get a
tolerance, so that heavy drinkers need to drink more to recover the same
amount of energy. Can anyone give their experience?

~~~
wutbrodo
> I'm also curious whether you get a tolerance, so that heavy drinkers need to
> drink more to recover the same amount of energy. Can anyone give their
> experience?

You don't have to go by anecdotes: caffeine is the most popular drug in the
world and has been studied fairly heavily. It improves focus and some other
cognitive metrics for a short period of regular use, and then your daily hit
of caffeine just brings you up to what your baseline used to be.

------
michalu
Caffeine is worth quitting at least for periods of time to rebalance your
cortisol and dompamine sensitivity. Both neurochemicals that affect focus,
motivation, drive, etc.

I love coffee and I found that when cycling off one of the best things to do
is to switch to decaf (some tasty options out there) + L-Theanine. Another
great help when cycling off is Rhodiola Rosea.

------
ttonkytonk
As for the "wildly varying amounts of caffeine", for purposes of not exceeding
400 mg/day,I have settled on what I saw on the side of a can of coffee that
one tablespoon of the average coffee has 63 mg of caffeine in it. Would love
to see a precise, detailed breakdown of caffeine content and variances in
coffee, tea etc.

------
mythrwy
I've found for me the secret to effective coffee drinking is don't drink it
right away upon awaking, particularly on an empty stomach. Move about, have
breakfast, wake up naturally. Then an hour or two after waking up have a small
amount. Much less negative effect on rest of day while getting the energy
benefits.

------
brightball
I've quit caffeine on a few occasions for long stretches. Most recently I just
reduced consumption to a couple of cups of coffee in the mornings and that was
it (a little creamer, no sugar/honey). That worked really well for 2 years.

Then we got a puppy and I haven't slept well in 4 weeks.

Typing this as I consume a Diet Dr. Pepper.

~~~
scarlac
A replacement product may help. Try replacing it with something less potent
like tea and see where you can go from there.

------
bdamm
When I quit smoking I wore nicotine patches for months. They were actually
quite pleasant, providing a nice memory and creativity boost. It's now been a
few years without cigarettes or patches, but I'm missing the warm stimulation
and considering taking up just the patches.

~~~
newman8r
nicotine gum is hacker gum. mix it with some betel nuts for an extra kick and
a very odd texture.

------
bariswheel
'One needs to gradually and continually increase the amount of caffeine
consumed in order to experience the stimulant effect.' <\- I still don't
understand the problem here? Not sold on his 'why' answer, sorry.

------
jrs95
I've been wanting to do this, but I think I'll probably have to take 2 weeks
of PTO to do that, unfortunately. At least it's a relatively benign addiction,
I suppose.

~~~
peteretep
The few times I've quit, I switched to decaf and caffeine pills, and then
slowly reduced the amount of caffeine from pills. No side-effects from this
approach. Cold turkey almost killed me.

------
bitL
How do you call that condition when you can drink e.g. 8 cups of coffee, not
feeling any kick and going to sleep like a baby as if caffeine never mattered?

~~~
tiku
I guess it's called working to hard, i'm currently also in that state.. Almost
vacation..

~~~
bitL
Nay, I meant some people just don't react to caffeine and I am curious what is
the name of this "medical condition"; this pertains to myself and a few others
I know. We can drink coffee/coke/whatever and sleep instantly and have zero
boost from caffeine.

------
valuearb
Quitting 30 years of daily caffeine was easy, I did it in a day by switching
to amphetamines. I'm very happy with the change.

------
vzaliva
The picture of the author at the end of the article was probably taken BEFORE
he's given up caffeine :)

------
dharma1
It's not a great idea to regularly consume large quantities of what is
essentially a natural insecticide. If you're tired, it's a much better idea to
have a nap for 20 mins. Wish that was more socially acceptable

~~~
jackvalentine
Did you know 100% of the people who have consumed h2o in history have died?

If you have a specific link between the 'insecticide' and poor health let's
hear it - otherwise it's just a ridiculous statement.

~~~
dharma1
I don't have a direct link to poor health - but sleep performs many functions
we are just starting to understand, and feeling tired is usually an indicator
that you need sleep.

Replacing that with a buzz from an insecticide - and that is the purpose for
which plants produce caffeine - on a regular basis doesn't feel like a great
idea.

------
pier25
Once I stopped drinking coffee for a couple of days before an Ayahuasca
session. The headaches were terrible.

I rarely drink anything other than a doppio in the morning, but I simply can't
start my day without it.

------
neofrommatrix
Has anyone tried the Caffeine + L-Theanine pills?

~~~
jrs95
No, but certain teas have rather high amount or caffeine in addition to
L-Theanine. Especially mate. Sadly the only place I knew of near me to get
that was Teavana, and they're all closing...

~~~
swah
I wonder how much caffeine one is really consuming with argentinian-style mate
([https://thony.com.br/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2015/09/chimarr...](https://thony.com.br/blog/wp-
content/uploads/2015/09/chimarr%C3%A3o.jpg)) since one is only pouring more
water on the same amount of leaves.

(When you make coffee you get new coffee beans and drink all of it. Tea is
different, mechanically.. ?

------
TACIXAT
I'm celiac and my symptoms* can best be described as hyper sensitivity to
addictive foods. I suspect this is more common than has been studied [1] as my
main symptom was daily sinus headaches.

The first thing I cut out was gluten. Gluten has been shown to act like an
opiate in people with autism. [2] I believe I was going through a short time-
scale withdrawal when consuming it regularly. That was the best I ever felt,
but I would still get the occasional sinus headache. Having tasted the good
life, I was on a mission to feel 100%.

The next thing I cut out was caffeine. It was tough. On all my attempts to
give things up, I've gone back and forth multiple times. I joke that it's to
"confirm" the trigger, but really it's because giving up tasty foods is tough.
Each time I go through an initial withdrawal. Bad sinus headache, shaking
(nerves), vomiting, stomach problems. It took about a month until my energy
levels were back to normal after giving up caffeine. I would usually come home
and work on side projects, I just didn't have the energy for a solid month. If
it didn't get better I was ready to suffer through the headaches to get my
energy back, but it did get better.

There is an amazing gluten free restaurant near me, and they have pizza. I was
eating pepperoni pizza's pretty regularly (because omg pizza) and still
getting headaches. Narrowing it down, only eating their pizza in the day and
seeing what happened I was able to identify what it was that was triggering
headaches on those days. I brought it up to the owner and he pointed out
sodium nitrite as an ingredient in the pepperoni. This is a common ingredient
in bacon and BBQ meats, which explained my sinus headaches with those too. Did
a few tests and it seemed consistent. There is uncured bacon and pepperoni but
it's just a trick. They use celery powder or celery juice to cure it. Celery
contains sodium nitrite. This also explains the headaches I get with Old Bay
seasoning (contains celery).

I feel there is a perfect phrase to describe this, but I can't think of it, so
I'll just say I cut down more of the forest I could more easily identify the
trees that were giving me sinus headaches. While I had given up caffeine, I
was still a total sugar fiend. Caffeine-free root beer, bowls of vanilla ice
cream doused in sprinkles. With my limited diet it was pretty easy to identify
the causes. Sugar was really rough to give up. I don't know if it was the
quantity I was eating, how long I had been eating it, but it was bad. With
sodium nitrites I just get a sinus headache when exposed to them. With sugar I
get the full symptoms described above. I went back and forth on sugar a few
times but the withdrawal symptoms (after giving it up) are what made me
finally say this is horrible and I'm never doing it again.

The final thing was MSG. I eat a lot of chips, since I can eat potato and
corn. I was particularly fond of the Ruffles Cheddar and Sour Cream ones. But
lo' a headache! Reading over the ingredients, monosodium glutamate. I didn't
know that was MSG at first, I had to Google each ingredient, but when I found
out, it made a lot of sense.

Giving this stuff up is difficult. I'm actually incredibly thankful for my
hyper-sensitive symptoms as it has gotten me to start eating healthily. It has
also made me realize how much addictive stuff is put into foods and how
scarcely it is researched.

*Celiac symptoms vary wildly, and I can only speak from my own experience.

1\. [http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/coeliac-disease-
sinusiti...](http://www.aaaai.org/ask-the-expert/coeliac-disease-sinusitis)

2\.
[http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14728222.6.2.175](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14728222.6.2.175)

~~~
RonanTheGrey
So much this. What you are describing very closely parallels my own journey
with food. The only thing I haven't cut out is caffeine, but I have cut out
most sources of gluten (I can't help the odd dish of orange chicken), MSG,
sugar, and most interestingly also, sodium nitrite. That one was easy because
a smart doctor identified it as a sensitivity when I was a child so I have
always avoided sources of it. When I make the mistake of trying anything that
contains it my body swiftly and appropriately punishes me.

The final, most recent and by far most difficult was sugar. My experience
cutting it out was the same as yours.

------
louithethrid
Someone i know has shizophrenia, for him, cafeein ment propelling insomnia and
a infinite creation drug binge. Also a inability to socialize regularly and
bursts of paranoia.

Its fascinating what this drug has created. Just look at pre cofee europe and
post coffe europe. All those half thought through manifestos would have never
been written if it werent for that coup burning the midnight oil.

------
whipoodle
It has always been interesting to me that (at least in America) this
particular drug dependence is something we joke lightly about ("don't talk to
me before I've had my coffee"). And of course it's much less serious than
other forms of dependence, but it still seems not particularly good to me. I
try to refrain from having caffeine often so that it still has an effect when
I drink a coffee.

~~~
revelation
Why does caffeine "dependence" concern you? It's extremely harmless and for
the vast majority of the population the sole remaining effect is that of a
very slight laxative.

Frankly, people drinking coffee over sugary beverages is a public health win.

~~~
Double_a_92
> effect is that of a very slight laxative

That's why I had to stop. Over time the effect bacame "non-slight". That
wasn't convenient for my 1h commute...

------
smegel
Best thing I ever did.

For me it was the worst kind of vicious cycle - drink more, sleep worse, drink
even more the next day.

Although I am sorely tempted every morning when I get a whiff of freshly
ground coffee being brewed up.

------
lasermike026
Aaaaaaaaah! <breath> Aaaaaaaaah!

