
I'm Wil Wheaton. I Live with Chronic Depression and Anxiety. I Am Not Ashamed - aritraghosh007
https://medium.com/@wilw/my-name-is-wil-wheaton-i-live-with-chronic-depression-and-generalized-anxiety-i-am-not-ashamed-8f693f9c0af1
======
mattdeboard
My therapist recommended a book to me a few months ago, and reading it
honestly changed my life. It's called, "I Don't Want to Talk About It:
Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression", by Terrence Real.

Read the summary here [https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Want-Talk-About-
Overcoming/dp/06...](https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Want-Talk-About-
Overcoming/dp/0684835398)

The thesis of the book is about how depression often manifests in men in ways
society doesn't recognize as depression. Examples would be rage problems,
substance abuse, "workaholism", and many others.

I don't know, maybe the book just caught me at exactly the right time in my
life, but it has been profoundly transformative for me.

------
symlinkk
I'm glad a celebrity is willing to come out and talk about this stuff, it
makes me feel less insane for suffering through it myself.

But there's not much actual advice here. It sounds like the main thing that
helped him were pills.

Also:

> as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the
> lowest difficulty setting

What a pathetic, and wholly incorrect thing to say.

~~~
anjc
> as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the
> lowest difficulty setting >What a pathetic, and wholly incorrect thing to
> say.

It's disgusting.

~~~
dang
Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN.

------
comboy
So what do you guys think: hunter-gatherers, then feudal farmers and then now
- how does median/average suffering per capita compare?

We all have better luxuries now than kings had hundreds of years ago. Less
famine, life threatening situations and so on. But we do have a way to compare
ourselves with best parts of lives of many interesting people around the
world. We have antibiotics and painkillers, but we also seem to have way more
options and anxiety.

I'd assume there's much less physical pain. But what about suffering that can
be caused by things like depression?

Do you think it's about the same, much better, slightly worse?

~~~
slg
We have the luxury of operating at much higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of
needs than generations past. I would much rather worry about whether my life
truly matters than worry about whether my life will immediately come to an end
if I can't kill or grow enough food. Depression was probably always an issue,
today we just have the privilege of it being the most pressing problem for
many of us.

~~~
Fricken
Many of the most memorable, meaningful, and exhilarating experiences in my
life are derived from times that were desperate, physically gruelling and
dangerous. I think it's what we're designed for. A ship is safe in harbour but
that's not what ships are for.

The periods of depression in my life were quite safe and comfortable, and
strongly associated with wondering if my life really matters, and you can't
think about that too hard because when you do, you recognize that, no, your
life is actually pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Hunter Gatherers didn't have that problem, because their whole world revolved
around their one little tribe, and at that scale, yes, their actions and
choices really did matter.

~~~
jackweirdy
> A ship is safe in harbour but that's not what ships are for.

What a powerful little phrase I’d never heard before. Thanks for sharing this!

~~~
kldavis4
For background on the quote: [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/12/09/safe-
harbor/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/12/09/safe-harbor/)

------
nomadiccoder
'anxiety is the dizzyness of freedom' ― Søren Kierkegaard, once one accepts
ones mental illness and instead of running from it, accepts and attacks it
head on can one truly make progress. The paradox is that [mental] illness
hinders ones ability to do so.

------
anjc
Is there any evidence that talking about depression openly, or talk-type
therapies, help to reduce depression? My experience of colleagues talking
openly about these things is that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, and
ultimately makes things worse.

~~~
phren0logy
Relevant background:I'm a psychiatrist.

"Talking about it" and "talking with a therapist" are different, and a good
therapist using an evidence-based approach to therapy is effective. Evidence-
based therapies are different than "chatting with a buddy."

That said, finding a good and well-trained therapist is often difficult. In
approximately 10% of people, psychotherapy makes things worse rather than
better. Sleep hygiene and regular exercise are always a good idea, and in some
cases medication is worth considering.

~~~
77pt77
> Evidence-based therapies are different than "chatting with a buddy."

Do you have any experimental evidence for that?

~~~
phren0logy
Yes, here's a good place to start:
[http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/understanding-
psychotherapy.as...](http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/understanding-
psychotherapy.aspx)

~~~
77pt77
Great username by the way.

------
gascan
For all the people in this thread musing that our ancestors had it good- a
little risk, sure, but plenty of fulfillment & meaning- I can't help but
wonder if the stigmatization on the left & among techies of serving in the
military, could have unintended consequences.

I've never served, but if you want to live in a small tight knit group, live
adventurously with real danger and do physically grueling work and get your
hands dirty- you still can.

~~~
erentz
The military’s purpose in the US is far from meaningful unfortunately.

Go into the fighting forces and it’s endless war against fake enemies that
does nothing to help the nation. Come home broken, with terrible support. If
you’re badly broken enjoy winding up on the streets in your mid twenties with
PTSD and no future.

Or for techies, maybe you’d go into the clandestine services and then find
it’s massive overreach, spying on your own citizens, and building the tools to
bring about dystopia.

It’s a pity because otherwise you’re right. And it should be as you say. It’s
just that’s not what our military is sadly.

------
WilliamEdward
Is there any progress being made with regards to gut microbiomes causing
depression? it's such a new area of research that it has the potential to
bring out a cure for depression if we figure out why it's caused. I don't
believe it's some un-crackable enigma living in the mind, because
neuroplasticity is very very easy to change.

------
RickJWagner
He's probably been adversely affected by a scene he's acted in.

In this particular scene, a nasty bald-headed old man shouts "Shut up,
Wesley!" at a young Will Wheaton. It's immensely popular on YouTube, the
click-count alone probably haunts his psyche daily.

~~~
berbec
Alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die can't have helped back in the day, either. He
has been a techie his whole life, so he can't have missed USENET.

------
monksy
This article strikes me as partially honest and raw and then the other to be
very planned and calculated.

Let's get this out now: I'm glad he finally sought help, and that he's getting
it.

The things about this article that bug me:

1\. He starts off with the article with a "trigger warning." The title is
about depression and anxiety. Having a 'trigger warning' is either insulting
to the reader, or it's a weird posturing thing. Seems a little offputting when
he's trying to write about his own experience and then in a way has to
apologize for it.

2\. He talks about his huge accomplishments and then he discounts himself due
to his 'identity': " I have run out of space in my office for the awards I’ve
received for my work, and as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America,
I live life on the lowest difficulty setting — with the Celebrity cheat
enabled." (Why is that even important to talk about your sexuality, race, or
even standing... if he's trying to do a raw and honest appeal this seems a
little off to me) This topic has nothing to do with those categories. Leave it
for a later addressing of remarks to discredit due to those attributes (this
is an issue that can affect anyone, even Trump, [insert who you hate])

> My life is, by every objective measurement, very very good.

Clearly not if you're suffering.

3\. The apology to his mother. Again why is he apologizing for what he's going
for? This to me seems like: 1. an improper sharing of a message to a close
family member 2. a projection of his relationship to his mother, etc. This
just seems really weird with respect of the audience of the talk.

EDIT: If you want to communicate how it's affected people close to you.. tell
the audience. I spoke with my mother on this. Her concerns were x,y,z. That
would give the audience a template of how to do the same if they feel it's
needed.

4\. The ending which he's trying to become an activist. He's trying to call
for political influence and then trying to endorse organizations.

At the end of this, I'm left wondering:

Why did he write this?

What does this piece mean? It goes from being very personal and revealing to
impersonal and political/advocating. Why not split both of those up. Let the
next question be: "How can we address that? Give the audience a way to say
"I'm seeing these things.. what can I do?"

Is this a vehicle for him to talk about "change" he wants to see?

~~~
ethiclub
Devils advocate, personal experience, personal interpretation, and
understanding of current literature:

1) Reflects current consensus in the field. Some may argue as 'coddling'(and
consensus and approach may change) but is in general regarded as the safe
empathetic thing to do, slightly analogous to epilepsy considerations.

'Posturing' could be considered an uncharitable assumption here... "What is
the agenda behind any posturing?"

2.a) Presumably pointed out to show that it can indeed affect anyone. B)
likely reflects a common thought cycle of his (guilt at feeling this way due
to position etc.; this becomes part of the self hate cycle). C) to precisely
acknowledge that this article doesn't intend to undermine other precarious or
disadvantaged positions).

"> My life is, by every objective measurement, very very good. Clearly not if
you're suffering."

This is precisely the point he was making, I believe(...?)

3) is important to those readers that still cannot bear to even imagine
burdening their loved one with a similar admission. At least one of this
article's readers wept imagining the value, freedom and weightlessness that
may come from finally saying this, and by extension realising the
inevitability of that statement vs a more unsatisfactory ending. (I.e it was
valuable to one reader , at least).

4\. Seems appropriate to ask for funding to reduce net negative emotion in the
world.

I would assume that your downvotes are due to your answer showing appearing
unnecessarily hostile and uncharitable to the article, which is probably being
interpreted on face value and being written with good, empathetic intention
(not a hidden agenda).

~~~
monksy
I don't agree with all of your points/responses. But I do appreciate the
respect shown in the response!

Hidden agenda: I'm terrible at those. I want to see him, as I would to other
speakers looking to speak, with a better and more consistent speech. My dog in
this fight is that I want to see him lead people to improve.

If it's important: I really don't like the guy. (If I'm going to be consistent
I don't like how he projects himself) He doesn't seem to have a respect for
people he disagrees with and he comes off really smug in some of his work. My
criticisms were about his speech and how I saw it and was made uncomfortable
about where I felt it was going.

------
sxp62000
That little voice in the back of your head that tells you that you're shit, is
a liar. Depression is a constant fight with that voice.

------
ken
> It’s just an illness. I mean, it’s right there in the name “Mental ILLNESS”
> so it shouldn’t have been the revelation that it was

I think this is actually a big part of the problem. In most other contexts we
encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". Soy milk? Not real
milk. Computer science? Don't see anyone using the scientific method.

I'm absolutely certain that mental illness is real, and deserves real study
and real treatment, but even so, whenever I hear "mental illness" I can't help
but hear a twang of "... (not _real_ illness)". The phrase "physical illness"
is relatively rare because we normally just call it "illness".

Is there a better word for mental illness, which stands on its own? Names
matter, and I don't think this one is doing us any favors.

~~~
mindgam3
After wrestling with this linguistic problem for quite some time, the best
term I’ve come up with this far is “mental injury”. I strongly prefer it to
“illness” because illness connotes a disease of the flesh, and there is no
proof that any of the things we typically call mental illness (with a few
notable exceptions like alzheimer’s and possibly seizures) are actually based
in the body.

In contrast, most of the common “mental illnesses” can be linked to specific
forms of psychological trauma or injury. For example, depression and anxiety
being caused by emotional abuse. Or PTSD resulting from a traumatic event.

The other term that comes to mind is “fracture” or “break”. Like, I fractured
my femur when I was in college. I got surgery, the femur healed. My femur
didn’t get an “illness” and I certainly don’t feel any stigma or shame around
the experience, other than regretting skiing way too fast.

It would be cool to say the same about the depression I experienced.

“What happened to you?”

“Oh, I fractured my mind after a really bad relationship with an emotionally
abusive ex. Yeah, my mind broke pretty good, but thankfully it was a pretty
clean break, I got it set right and after a few years of psychoanalysis and
some quality entheogens it’s as good as new.”

It’s time to ditch the illness/disease model for mental illness and use terms
like injury/fracture/break that both accurately describe the situation and
clearly indicate that the situation can be remedied. The idea of chronic and
untreatable mental illness is a self fulfilling prophecy and does far more
harm than good.

~~~
WalterGR
_there is no proof that any of the things we typically call mental illness
(with a few notable exceptions like alzheimer’s and possibly seizures) are
actually based in the body._

Then where are they based? Literally all we are is a body.

 _The idea of chronic and untreatable mental illness is a self fulfilling
prophecy and does far more harm than good._

Who has this idea? I’ve never heard of depression or anxiety being described
as untreatable.

Just like the common cold is an “illness” and nobody claims it’s untreatable.

~~~
mindgam3
They are symbolic constructs, based in the mind and expressed through the
body. Like memes. As opposed to genes, which are also expressed through the
body but which are chemical in nature.

Perhaps “garden variety” depression and anxiety aren’t the best examples here,
although both of them do have their severe forms and even clinical labels like
“treatment resistant depression”. I’m thinking particularly of more severe
diagnoses like bipolar or schizophrenia, which are generally assumed in
mainstream western psychiatry since at least the 60s to be lifelong illnesses
whose symptoms may be treatable with medication but for which there is no
known “cure”.

I’m speaking from the perspective of someone who watched his sister receive a
bipolar diagnosis after a suicide attempt in late teens, and then watched her
develop more severe “bipolar” behaviors as a result of the so-called
antipsychotic drugs she was prescribed. Only years later did I realize that
her suicide attempt was a direct result of severe chronic parental abuse that
she was enduring at the time. Of course the relevant information never made it
to the doctors who were forced to come up with a reason for a young girl
attempting suicide, hence bipolar. My sister died by suicide last year. I
can’t speak for others, but in her case the bipolar label was both a
convenient cover-up for severe child abuse and essentially a death sentence
for my sister’s soul and ultimately her life. I suspect that the same could be
happening in many cases where abnormal or self-harming behavior is in fact a
reaction to abuse. It’s just so much easier to tell someone that they have a
chemical imbalance in their brain and it’s nobody’s fault, rather than
confront a child abuse situation.

------
nickthemagicman
I feel like capitalism separates people based on intelligence because value is
added to businesses/society by your ability solve problems/create.

Manual labor is something literally anyone can do(barring major physical
disability).

While this isn't a new idea in human history, the intelligent have always had
it better, it's become a new problem recently that people who are of average
intelligence cannot live decent lives.

This is just a theory but I feel like up until the past 20 or so years even if
you were of average intelligence you could live a very decent life just
working, raising your kids, etc.

Factory workers of the 60's made enough to do well for themselves and family.

Now with automation, outsourcing, etc, only the people who create the
automation and can compete with the best minds from around the world have
decent jobs, (i.e. STEM which isn't accessible intellectually to a fair amount
of people).

So we're ALL competing intellectually now whereas before only some people were
needed to be the brains and the rest could live a decent life.

I feel like constantly having to compete on this level with your mind having
to constantly perform at its peak... not just to get ahead...but for basic
survival without a foundational safety net, really lends itself to mental
disorders or exaggerates existing ones.

Just my personal theory.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Manual labor is something literally anyone can do.

No, it's not; people can just as easily lack the physical capacity for manual
labor as they can lack the intellectual capacity for knowledge work. There are
plenty of people who can do knowledge work but would be unable to do manual
work.

~~~
nickthemagicman
I think human beings have been doing manual labor since they emerged from the
forests 50k years ago: hunter/gathering, agriculture(pre-industrialization)

Manual labor is our default condition.

Everyone can do manual labor, or they can eventually get in shape enough to do
it.

~~~
dragonwriter
> I think human beings have been doing manual labor since they emerged from
> the forests 50k years ago

Believe it or not, the conditions humans live in now are different than 50K
years ago; it's much more common for someone able to survive to adulthood
without being able to do manual labor now.

> Everyone can do manual labor, or they can eventually get in shape enough to
> do it.

Stephen Hawking, for a fairly extreme and well-known example, was quite
capable of knowledge work, but could not have done manual labor, and could not
have gotten in shape to do such labor, either.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Sorry I should say 99.9(repeating)% of people.

The industrial revolution happened 300 years ago.

We were farming and huntering/gathering for 50,000+ years before that.

Our bodies have not lost the ability to do manual labor in under 10
generations.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Sorry I should say 99.9(repeating)% of people.

That's exactly the same, and therefore exactly as wrong, as 100%.

As of 2010, 12.2 million people in the US had disabilities for which they
needed physical assistance with tasks like “doing housework, using the phone
and preparing meals.”

[https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/miscellane...](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/miscellaneous/cb12-134.html)

------
20160216
This guy has a lot of stories about how Shatner was rude to him without cause.
Well he has turned into shatner and is rude without cause to many people,
including myself.

I now think his real psychological problem is that he’s a sociopathic
narcissist and this entire article is just manipulation.

Wow, downvoted and flagged Within literally 5 seconds of posting.

Only certain opinions are allowed here?

~~~
dang
Personal attacks and name calling aren't opinions, and aren't allowed here.
Please don't do this again, regardless of how you feel about someone or how
badly they behaved.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

