
Doubt cast on Dash developer's defense against Apple's claim of review fraud - anthonybsd
https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/13/evidence-against-dash-developers-fraudulent-account-claim/
======
ars
Every time.

Every time I read some post by someone about how they were treated unfairly by
some company or another, upon further inspection they are not telling the
whole truth. (Usually not outright lies, just not the complete story.)

Every time.

Oh well. I like myself better when I believe people, so I'll continue to do
that anyway despite logic saying not to.

~~~
rizzom5000
I was thinking something similar when the story originally came out. There
simply wasn't any evidence of any wrongdoing by anyone, but the mob was ready
to pull out the pitchforks:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646919](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12646919)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12680131](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12680131)

~~~
mitchty
It fits a certain narrative that certain groups want to promote about apple.
The story just became a vehicle to vent about preexisting gripes about them.
Note how you see statements like walled garden etc, when this can also be
couched as removing developers that game the system.

------
callahad
Eh, I'm still siding with Bogdan. At 3:10 in the recording at
[https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-
story](https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story), Apple
explicitly states that they never attempted to contact him via the account
that published Dash.

If Apple is going to pull the plug on all of the linked accounts, they have a
duty to at least _inform_ all of the linked accounts.

~~~
IBM
The only reason to inform both accounts is if you believe the developer's
story about his relative using the account (which is a "my dog ate the
homework" excuse) and that Apple needs to explore every possible edge case
scenario that could explain the innocence of the developer. The credit card,
the bank account, and the devices were all the same. That's more than enough
for Apple to reasonably believe that the accounts belong to the same person
and to shut him down.

~~~
callahad
The reason to inform both accounts is that you're about to shut down both
accounts, and it's _always_ possible that you've made a mistake.

I'm asking them to send two emails instead of one, not hire a private eye.

------
falcolas
No matter how skeezy the Dash developer is starting to look, I still I
personally despise the reinstatement of the developer's account depending upon
the developer posting a comment vindicating Apple on their blog.

It seems childish, like Apple feels the need to show "who's the bitch" by
making the developer bow to their desires.

~~~
tvmalsv
I don't see it as Apple doing any wrong here. They recently received a lot of
bad press for terminating the Dash developer's account for some unknown
reason. Turns out there was a good reason after all, and would like the
originator of the bad press to now present the actual details of the "why".
And he doesn't have to admit to any wrongdoing.

From the way I understood Dash and Apple's conversation, Kapeli helped another
developer become a fully registered in Apple's dev program. He helped by
paying the $99 on his own credit card and letting the new developer do testing
with his hardware, thus "linking" the accounts in the eyes of Apple (same CC,
same hardware devices). And it was actions by the new developer that appeared
fraudulent.

Apple isn't asking him to admit involvement with the new developer. They just
want to get the word out that it wasn't some blackbox heuristic that singled
out Kapeli for some unknowable reason.

Basically a case of guilt-by-association. And because of that, I really think
they should have contacted him about it before bringing out the ban hammer.

~~~
falcolas
> They just want to get the word out that it wasn't some blackbox heuristic
> that singled out Kapeli for some unknowable reason.

So, why didn't they just do that? Instead of this roundabout "we screwed up
and you screwed up, so you need publish our comment for us", why not just come
out and comment on the circumstances, and reinstate the account. Boom. Whole
thing is resolved, muck stops being slung, developers are happy because Apple
appears responsive to problems, and customers can once again download Dash.

~~~
teilo
In retrospect, they did _exactly_ the right thing. Consider the facts as we
know them:

1) A developer appears to be manipulating reviews in direct violating of his
developer agreement.

2) Apple attempts to reach out to developer, but receives no response.

3) Apple suspends account, and any linked accounts.

4) Said developer cries foul, lies through his teeth about having nothing to
do with these reviews, accuses Apple of unfair treatment, and succeeds in
getting major news outlets to pick up his story.

5) Apple's reputation is unjustly damaged due to the one-sided media
attention.

6) Apple reaches out to developer directly, gives him a reasonable way out:
Admit that Apple's actions were justified based on their best available
knowledge, and further that they are willing to correct the situation and
assist the developer with preventing it in the future. This protects the
interests of both parties. Apple is vindicated. Developer is vindicated. Bad
press goes away.

7) In the process of carrying out this agreement, Apple discovers said
developer was lying to them. He was indeed guilty of exactly what Apple
accused him of. The linked account contained his own products, as proven by
archives of his website. Apple makes the ban permanent.

Now, if Apple had done what you suggest, this would be tantamount to saying,
"Yep, that bad press was right. We screwed up. Sorry." This damages Apple's
reputation, making developers wary of distributing products on the App Store.
This has a financial impact on Apple. If I were still an Apple shareholder, I
would expect my interests be protected in exactly the manner they were.

Whether one agrees with the walled garden of the App Store is not relevant to
the facts of the case. Enforceable legal contracts between two parties is a
key pillar of modern civilization. The parties in a contract must weigh their
risks-rewards, and judge accordingly.

~~~
falcolas
For better or worse, they silently shut down a clean account that was only
tangentially (and invisibly) linked to a problem account, without notice,
without appeal.

They admitted as much.

If you don't see that as being a problem, that's your choice.

~~~
SysArchitect
So they should only close the account that is doing the bad stuff, and give
that user another account to continue doing the same thing?

------
Grue3
This is a downright character assassination attempt. The way apple is treating
this developer is pathetic.

~~~
anthonybsd
Did you even bother reading the story? Here's a summary:

[http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-
says-1-000-fraudul...](http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-
says-1-000-fraudulent-reviews-were-detected-across-two-accounts-owned-by-dash-
developer-update-developer-responds.2005850/page-12#post-23708918)

~~~
Grue3
Yeah, I'll take macrumors' word for it. Seems like a totally impartial source.

------
homero
Apple gives him an out yet he records them in defiance
[https://newyork.kapeli.com/downloads/Apple_Call.m4a](https://newyork.kapeli.com/downloads/Apple_Call.m4a)

~~~
tvmalsv
I half agree. They are definitely giving him an out, but I don't consider his
recording the call as defiance, more like just being practical. I'd record the
call, too.

~~~
ascagnel_
I'd record the call for potential legal action -- if he was telling the truth
the entire time, then he would likely have a reasonable court case for losing
some income because of Apple's action. Releasing the edited call recording
(it's clear that at least the beginning and ending of the call have been
removed) outside of litigation is going nuclear.

