
Ask HN: Should engineering jobs have a nap time? - addict3d
As an engineer with a full-time job I am usually juggling contracts on the side and not getting enough sleep. My days of mentally taxing coding all day can make me tired in the middle of the day. Does anyone else have this experience and do you think it&#x27;s reasonable to request the company you work for to provide a nap time?<p>EDIT: Grammar
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peterkelly
You: "Hey, you know that 40-hour work week we have in order to give us enough
time for rest and relaxation?"

Boss: "Yep. What about it?"

You: "So instead of getting enough sleep at night I've been using that time to
take on lots of extra paid work for other companies. To make up for it, can
you give me time off to sleep at work?"

Boss: ಠ_ಠ

~~~
jnbiche
> 40-hour work week

Where in the software industry are you working a 40-hour week? Outside of
government, I've never heard of a programming job that consistently limits
employees to 40-hour weeks.

~~~
LukeB_UK
Depends what country you live in. I'm in the UK and 40 hour or less weeks are
extremely common.

~~~
anexprogrammer
Yep. I've had just two roles in a 25 year career that consistently wanted
more:

A contract that charged by the hour, so I wasn't that reluctant. The novelty
wore off after a few months though. My second development job had management
who tried guilt tripping everyone into giving free overtime every day.

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symfony_
Let me reiterate:

\- You take on contracts on the side and do not get enough sleep because of
that.

\- You think the company you work for should maybe compensate you with some
time to sleep during their working time.

What happened when you asked the people you do some contracting for if you
could sleep an hour and bill them your hourly for that?

I would think it reasonable for your full-time gig to respond in the exact
same way as your freelance gig would.

~~~
chriscampbell
You hit the nail on the head. I can not imagine reacting any other way if an
engineer on my team asked for nap time.

~~~
koder2016
The funny part is that your expectation is probably _" I get the legitimate 1
hour of work instead of them taking a nap"_ but the reality is _" I get 4-5
hours of poor quality work after lunch due to lack of nap"_.

~~~
joshmanders
So wouldn't the answer to this be not to give them paid naps, but to eliminate
the reason they need the nap in the first place? Most people take on side work
because they don't make enough at their day job. So maybe re-evaluate their
compensation and maybe raise it a bit?

~~~
balabaster
This is a never ending cycle of people chasing more and more money. If you're
paying them fair market value for the area, then there's little point in
giving them a pay rise for asking for a nap because they're tired. Chances
are, they're chasing contract gigs because they have their own interests in
the work or they just see the dollar signs - I know I do it... but I also know
that come 10pm I'm wasted and have to hit the hay to start it all at 6am again
the next day.

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dangrover
I work at a software company in China. Like clockwork, at 1pm, the lights are
cut, shades are drawn, then everybody pulls little beds out from their desks
and takes a nap. It struck me as quite strange the first time I observed it.
The actual work day is something like 10-12 hours including
nap/lunch/dinner/goofing off time, with probably about the same amount of
actual work as in an American office. I am unable to adapt to this, even when
I am exhausted, so I use the time to go to the gym or just keep working.

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ItsJason
My workplace has a "Wellness Room". It's just a room with a lockable door and
a couch. Probably once every week on average, when I'm feeling beat, I'll lay
down and set my phone alarm for 20 minutes. It really helps. That said, I
agree that prefacing this with the bit about side work does seem to undercut
the question. In general, naps are good, but also not eating a ton of carbs
over lunch will help prevent you from crashing in the afternoon!

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MattRogish
My work-from-home superpower is that if I'm feeling sleepy (baby woke me up,
slept poorly, whatever), I can take a quick (30 min or so) nap in the early
afternoon and when I wake up, I feel refreshed, wide-awake, and make far
better decisions and have far better productivity than if I tried to slog
through.

When I used to work in an office, that would end up being a coffee run or some
sort of other distraction to try and get the energy up... Or simply staring at
the screen for a few hours and answering emails.

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edoceo
You are burning the candle at both ends and need to own your own problems
since you created them.

That said, I give the folks on my team an hour per day for "stuff". Reading
blogs, exploring the new-shiny JS framework or nap if you want. Devs
absolutely need free space in their mind to let the subconscious solve
problems. Its art and science - art needs room and science needs focus.

Trying to do too much leaves you doing less, with poor quality, which just
piles up escaped defects and adds pressure.

You have to go slow to go fast

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j45
This is simply about priorities. You, or your time are not more important than
the people cutting cheques to you. Your only job in side gigs or main jobs is
to add value.

I'll say it again, your job is to add more value than you are paid by a job or
freelancer. It's a tricky balance. You are hired full-time to give full time
results, and being prepared to do so is your job is your non-full time hours
which you can choose to spend.

Asking your full-time job to subsidize your time and energy to make money
elsewhere doesn't make a lot of sense.

There is a capacity limit for every human being and you may need to rethink
your business model, bring on help, and pick up management skills to not work
harder, but perhaps work less and make more for those hours worked.

Things don't get easier, you just get better if you dive a bit more into
achieving your goals in a way that aren't at the expense of others.

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jlos
I disagree with the other comments here about your extra work. Your time
outside work is your own and there are a dozen reasons why there are days a
nap will be beneficial (kids of almost any age come to mind). However, you
probably have enough time to nap just not the place to do so.

Most jobs will give you close to an hour for lunch and maybe even another
short break during the day. That's plenty of time to nap, so long as there is
somewhere quiet, private, and somewhat dark to lean back and shut your eyes
for 15 minutes.

Sleeping is kinda like going to the bathroom in that you need a few fixtures
and some privacy. All that is needed is someway to recline with your feet up
(typically better for naps than lying directly down anyway) with some privacy.
That's probably reasonable to ask for as long as its during the time you
already get for a break.

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balabaster
I'd say that's completely unreasonable and here's why:

I pay you to do a job that provides value to my company. You're not providing
that value while you're sleeping. You can have nap time, but I'm not paying
you to nap. As a coder and software architect myself, I understand that it
takes a fresh mind to deliver your best work so I understand the need for
sleep and you should have as much as you need - but I'm paying you to do a
job, not sleep. You sleep on your own dime, not mine. If you're not coming to
work fresh enough to provide what we agreed to when you accepted the job, then
why are you still coming to work?

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Jemmeh
This question is phrased badly because of the "side jobs". But anyways - I
frequently sleep on my lunch breaks. Naps are great, clears my head. I'm most
productive right when I get into work and right after lunch nap.

Also to those using, "Well you're only going to get 4 hours productive time
anyways" \- I disagree. The key to working long productive hours is taking
short breaks. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlU-
zDU6aQ0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlU-zDU6aQ0)

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smilesnd
This is a interesting question to me just for the fact it is asking what can
we request from higher management. I was always told when being offer a new
job everything was negotiable till you sign the papers. Maybe that is the time
you are suppose to request a period in which to take naps? Would you ask to be
able to take naps on site at your desk? Would they tell you, you can take naps
as long as it is off site like the smokers? What would the company have to
provide for you to be able to take a nap? How long would a nap be? I don't
think a company should have to provide nap time, but I do think it isn't a
crazy request as long as you take it serious. Also remember when you make a
request from the company, you are also making a request for everyone else at
the company to have the same privileges. You getting approve for nap time
would make it possible for anyone else at the company to get approve for nap
time.

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vemv
> Does anyone else have this experience and do you think it's reasonable to
> request the company you work for to provide a nap time?

Yes, definitely. Word it as an extended lunch time though. Also, remark your
productivity boost, which is what they really care about.

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yunti
you could work in spain. Everyone gets a 2 hour nap time - it's ciesta baby!

~~~
Mahn
Not true at all. The concept of "siesta" exists, but nobody does it at work.
It's mostly something for retired people with a lot of free time and not much
to do.

~~~
Angostura
So what do all the retail staff do when the shops close between 12 and 3?

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glastra
Only small shops do this, and it's more of a 1-to-4 thing. I guess they
could... I don't know, have lunch, spend time with their family, do some
chores?

Besides, you can't expect a small store with one or two employees (e.g. a
bookshop) to be open from 9 AM to 8 PM without any breaks in between.

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tluyben2
Agreeing with some of the other comments here; side jobs is not a good story
here. If you have a fulltime contract at that company and your side jobs are
making you sleepy then you should quite those side jobs. Besides that; a
programmer/engineer can do maybe 4 hours of coding a day. I notice that when I
have a siesta (I take a 1 hour nap after lunch) I am sharper and more focused
and can do more hours. And it really makes me feel a lot better as well. Then
again; I don't juggle contracts on the side anymore as that sucked the life
out of me with or without naps.

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jondubois
It would be nice if offices had black sound-proof pods which we could lay
inside when we want to take a short nap.

I think it's also important to take holidays from time to time. Coding can get
really exhausting mentally after a while and an occasional 2+ weeks holiday
allows you to clear your head.

A lot of software developers spend time thinking about the projects that
they're working on while outside of work hours - When you're working on two or
more projects simultaneously, this effect is magnified and it can be
overwhelming.

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sharemywin
I don't think he was referring to "on the clock." Also, doesn't have to be
another project could be wife and kids your trying to juggle at night.

~~~
Piskvorrr
Well, juggling wife and kids does sound strenuous! ;)

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jamesdelaneyie
I'd be looking at your diet and eating times if you're getting the '3 o'clock
slump' and need a snooze during the day.

~~~
sharemywin
for me it's 1 o'clock. of course I eat at 11.

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Angostura
Why not just reorganise things? Instead of asking for nap time, just ask for
an hour during the day to carry out side contract work.

Much simpler and clearer.

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lawnchair_larry
This question is ridiculous.

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MalcolmDiggs
I think you'd have an easier time asking for a raise so that you wouldn't feel
a need to take side-contracts anymore.

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stefs
i sometimes have sleep problems, so i do take some time off to nap in the
middle of the day if my work quality is impaired and if there are no pressing
issues. i do stop the clock on those though, so my company isn't paying me for
the nap time.

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wojt_eu
This way you could cut sleep at night even more and take another side-project!

</sarcasm>

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asah
lame to need naps because of side projects.

not lame to need naps -- for 20yrs, I've taken naps when I'm stuck on a
problem, literally "sleeping on it". Works like a charm.

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anon987
Great troll, 10/10

