
Another Airbnb Victim Tells His Story: “There Were Meth Pipes Everywhere” - jasonlbaptiste
http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/31/another-airbnb-victim-tells-his-story-there-were-meth-pipes-everywhere/
======
mgkimsal
What's going to be a game changer is when stories start breaking about owners
who rent out their space as a way to lure in people for killing or torturing
them.

Right now it's about "you were stupid, why did you rent your space out to
strangers?". Later on it'll be "why did you try to save $20 and go sleep some
place where you're 110% vulnerable?". You don't control the locks, you don't
know the neighborhood or even the layout of the house all that well (are there
cameras in the room spying on you?).

If Holiday Inn or Marriott had tried to go 'downmarket' by trying to get in
the "rent out your space with us - we'll handle the booking logistics", they'd
have been eaten alive by the insurance costs of dealing with QA on thousands
of rooms/spaces they don't control. They'd have too much name brand
recognition and goodwill in their names to lose by leaving customer safety and
security to chance. ABNB seems to be coming at this from the other way. What
do they have to lose? Investor money? It's a big experiment for them, which
they're hoping will pay off, but I think there's a reasons beyond "laziness"
or "not getting it" to explain why larger companies well-versed in
hospitality/property management have not gone down this road.

Will things still work out for ABNB? They might, but they're taking such a hit
on this by not just making some of these situations right, then changing their
procedures and policies. Apparently these incidents - as infrequent as they
may be - have been occurring for a while. There's probably quite a few more
that haven't come forward because they've felt it was their own fault, much
like domestic abuse spouses blame themselves. Not really wanting to see ABNB
fail, but can't help watching this play out, and I somewhat suspect it'll get
worse before it gets better.

~~~
rokhayakebe
_What's going to be a game changer is when stories start breaking about owners
who rent out their space as a way to lure in people for killing or torturing
them._

I agree 100%. However I ask say how in the world did you think about this?

~~~
dspillett
I thought it too when I heard about the service and how little vetting is done
(i.e. not, it is all left to the users).

A fair number of rape/murder/other cases involve an unwitting victim being
lured into situations that they naively (or just incorrectly) think should be
safe. It is far from a daily occurrence in any given area but such cases are
in the national news often enough (and fictional realms also) to figure in the
minds of the more paranoid!

1\. think of using AirBnB, 2. perfectly healthy paranoia kicks in and starts
listing worst-case scenarios, 3. book into a large well known chain hotel
instead...

~~~
mgkimsal
Not just 'no vetting' is done, but they actively discourage you from making
your own outside contact with the other party until you've already paid.
Craigslist doesn't go that far - they do hide your email, but they don't stop
you from trying to do your own vetting.

------
dasht
There is a deep ethical problem with starting or funding airbnb, in my
opinion:

The fraction of people with enough sophistication and resources to be good,
safe, hosts and guests is a tiny, tiny fraction of the people in the world. It
is absurd to think that airbnb could ever scale to justify its investments if
only those sophisticated users were customers.

The model relies, therefore, on large numbers of hosts and guests taking
foolish risks. Airbnb's light and airy "how it works" video is a fine
illustration of just how glib they are in encouraging people to make bad
mistakes. The advice on their "safety" page is risible.

Because most people are decent, most foolish risks from using airbnb go
"unpunished" but certainly not all - as we've seen. A significant percentage
of those risks lead to great loss.

I fear that Airbnb is going to help kill, kidnap, rape or otherwise grievously
harm someone's person, directly, at this pace. That's because to make its
numbers the company must, needs be, incite dangerously foolish behavior from
many customers.

That the investors controlling so many dollars signed off on this investment
speaks poorly of the VC system that produced airbnb. It speaks poorly of their
common sense and/or dedication to basic social responsibility.

~~~
jjmaxwell4
What about all of the good that AirBnB does for the large majority of people
who use the site? Is there a deep ethical problem with letting people
supplement their income, while also letting travellers have a cheaper option
for a night/weeks stay?

The vast majority of people who use AirBnb benefit from it.

~~~
atakan_gurkan
In this regard, it is similar to driving. Vast majority benefits, but there
are few who suffer greatly. The solution there is to regulate; introducing
specific rules and making it illegal for people to drive unless they have a
license. There is already a regulated hosting system: hotels; airbnb wants to
change the system without keeping the regulations. I'd say they carry some
responsibility here.

~~~
jjmaxwell4
Being a liberitarian, I don't ever think the solution is to regulate;
especially in this AirBnB case, where it is a mutual agreement between two
people. Its different then driving, because only one of these two people can
be hurt by the agreement. The onus to protect oneself should ultimetely rest
with the owners/travelers.

------
smanek
""" _Airbnb, while pointing out that the incident was the first of its kind
out of some 2 million stays booked since the company's founding in 2008 ..._
"""

source:
[http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011...](http://travel.usatoday.com/destinations/dispatches/post/2011/07/plot-
thickens-airbnb-renter-horror-story/179250/1)

Either USAToday misinterpreted/misreported a quote, Airbnb lied to a reporter
on the record, or Troy is making up his story. I can't see any other way to
reconcile the evidence put forth.

~~~
SoftwareMaven
The actual quote from AirBnB:

 _With a single booking, one person’s malicious actions victimized our host
and undermined what had been – for 2 million nights – a case study
demonstrating that people are fundamentally good._

Note it _implies_ this is the only incident that has occurred, but they could
have had three million incidents and this statement would still _technically_
be true as long as they had two million nights without incidents.

Somehow, I doubt USA Today will be thrilled about being manipulated that
way...

~~~
michael_dorfman
_Somehow, I doubt USA Today will be thrilled about being manipulated that
way..._

Somehow, I doubt USA Today will even notice. They get served up far more
egregious statements on a daily basis.

And, by the way, the statement is literally true, regardless of the number of
prior incidents (within reasonable bounds). They aren't claiming a perfect
2million night streak in the quote-- rather, "a case study demonstrating that
people are fundamentally good." If they had had 2000 prior bad incidents, they
could easily argue that a 99% problem-free rate demonstrates that "people are
fundamentally good."

~~~
Klinky
This just highlights major flaws with the AirBnB business model. I think a
more accurate quote would have been that it's "a case study demonstrating that
a niche group of people with shared goals can act in a fundamentally good
way", translating that to the general population is where AirBnB will have
it's growing pains.

------
gojomo
Might have even been the same meth c[r]ooks.

Kudos to Dayton for keeping a balanced perspective on the situation, and not
equating customer service clumsiness with indifference.

I like AirBnb. I will continue to use AirBnb as a guest. (Hypothetically if I
were to be a host, I would only rent a hardened/rental-only property with
careful assessment of the potential guests.) I am also still bullish on the
general theme that the transparency and efficiency of the net makes peer-to-
peer transactions between strangers more safe and easy than ever before.

But they're going to have to innovate on 'trust and safety' to avoid any
impression they're AirBnBnMethDen.

~~~
_delirium
> Might have even been the same meth c[r]ooks.

That's what I thought as well (both are SF Bay Area), though it's only a
guess. The combination of meth-heads and identity theft seems weird to be
repeated. I would even tentatively guess at the meth-heads trashing apts being
a cover for someone else who got the idea of using AirBnB to acquire documents
for an identity-theft ring, but who knows, it's possible there are actually
meth-heads who are also into identity theft, or who at least know someone to
sell the documents to.

~~~
gojomo
Meth addicts seem to like identity-theft, so that correlation is not
especially unique. See for example:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/11/us/11meth.html>

(Identity theft is also the perfect precursor to evading what payment- and
identity- checks do exist in an AirBnb-like system.)

~~~
_delirium
Interesting; thanks for the link. That's kind of a fascinating connection
between drug chemistry, socioeconomic settings, and crime. Given _that_
background, two meth-use-with-ID-theft incidents don't seem as weird to find
in an AirBnB-like setting, which seems almost perfect for the kinds of people
described in that article.

------
benatkin
Just in case anyone's curious, CouchSurfing has been around a bit longer than
AirBnb and they have their own safety tips and tools:
<http://www.couchsurfing.org/safety.html>

Here's the AirBnb page about safety: <http://www.airbnb.com/home/safety>

CouchSurfing is similar in that it's about strangers staying at people's
places. The biggest difference is that people let others stay at their houses
for free. Usually both parties do it for the experience. Many people think
it's fun to meet travelers. I knew someone who traveled to Asia and couch-
surfed.

~~~
notJim
That AirBnb page was added like a week or two ago in response to the EJ
affair.

~~~
benatkin
Wow, good to know. I confirmed it with archive.org. I don't need to know if
Michael Arrington or EJ are telling the truth or not. This is enough for me to
not trust AirBnb. With that kind of popularity they should educate potential
guests/hosts about safety issues. I'm glad they're doing it now but it's too
late for me. (I used AirBnb three times last year but each time I tried to get
to know the hosts through a phone call beforehand and was ready to cancel if
it didn't feel right.)

------
msy
I'm starting to think that much like Quora, AirBnB worked because of the
nature of its early members and that the model simply doesn't scale.

~~~
gamble
I think it depends on the type of rental. Vacation rentals or rentals where
the owner is present can work, but it's extremely risky to hand a stranger the
keys to your home and disappear, hoping they won't steal anything or trash the
place. It's great that AirBnB's early adopters were largely trustworthy enough
to let that practice persist for a while, but it won't survive mainstream
popularity.

~~~
Uchikoma
If you're present, there is a chance you get murdered.

------
pitchups
There are a few glaring, obvious questions to which I have not seen any
answers so far - or maybe I have missed them: Why was it difficult for Airbnb
to immediately have the person that trashed the place arrested? Don't they
have the person's identity - address, credit card information, phone number,
IP address? Don't they run a basic credit check when a person signs up to rent
a unit listed on the site? Or at least do some basic identity verification? Or
was this person using a stolen identity? Or does Airbnb require that the
entire responsibility for this rests on the person renting the place?

~~~
usaar333
I've been wondering this as well, and I didn't see it mentioned in any post
thus far. It seems like the most obvious step to do; if police can get the CC
number from AirBnB, that should be enough to resolve the SSN. Assuming the
info isn't stolen, the criminal is going to have a problem.

I'm not an AirBnB user, so maybe I'm missing something.

~~~
Uchikoma
EJ said she has suspicion they were identity thefts. So they booked with a
stolen identity probably.

------
waterlesscloud
I'm realizing I'm confused about what value airbnb is offering.

If they don't vet people on either end, are they really just a craigslist with
payment processing?

~~~
officemonkey
They also have a spiffy web-site and app that does a nice job showing off
properties and assisting you in finding the properties you want.

But yeah, they are essentially just middlemen. They benefit from keeping the
buyer and seller apart until the deal is done and they get their cut.

~~~
fossuser
And that exact benefit is the source of trouble.

~~~
ebaysucks
Indeed. The one way for them to lock in market leadership forever is to drop
the fees and make their money on payment processing, insurance offers, user
screening and safety deposits that renters may or may not decide to opt in
for.

This would allow users to contact and vet each other before agreeing on a sale
while still having some profit streams.

Basically AirBnb would become a specialized Craigslist on steroids, but it can
only be done if the founders want to build a long term business netting them a
few million each year rather than a VC darling to be flipped for a couple of
billion dollars.

------
bugsy
It's very interesting that he had the exact same experience and was given the
run around by AirBnB. His story also shows that they are not being completely
truthful when they said EJ's case was the first time anything like this had
happened in 2 million rentals. I wonder what the real statistics are.

------
diN0bot
it's interesting how the couch surfing and airbnb cultures have diverged.

i love the community aspect of couch surfing---the fact that it's about
spending time with cool people in new places, rather than finding "a cheap
hotel", is huge to me.

i get that there is a market for people who want cheap hotels rather than a
community. however, there was a sense that you were getting more from paying
more...like more security or something.

yet everyone in couch surfing knows the importance of community references,
and to meet folks at a cafe before deciding whether to bring them over.

letting someone you've never met use your home while you're not
there.....interesting culture screw up. i think adding a little money to the
mix drastically changed what became emphasized.

------
gojomo
Let's not forget even four-star hotels are not immune to room-invasion
burglary, as Alex Trebek learned in SF last week:

[http://www.baycitizen.org/crime/story/alex-trebek-crime-
figh...](http://www.baycitizen.org/crime/story/alex-trebek-crime-fighter/)

~~~
jerrya
And here I thought you were going to mention O.J.

------
klenwell
This does answer one thing that puzzled me about the EJ story. If this was
meth addicts, she surely couldn't have been the first victim of this sort of
thing.

If the culprits in this case aren't related to the ones in the EJ case, I'd be
curious if there's an identifiable profile here. The stereotype of the meth
addict I operate by is a down-market tweaker who'd have no idea Airbnb existed
much less the patience or resources to take advantage of it. But I suppose
there's a more upscale demographic that might make up a hellish niche market
for Airbnb.

~~~
georgemcbay
She won't be the last either, unless Airbnb makes some sort of fundamental
changes.

Not only is all of this press bad in terms of basic PR, but now the word is
out (to those so inclined who weren't tech savvy enough to previously realize
it even existed) that Airbnb is a good place to rent a temporary meth lab as
long as you're capable of some basic identity theft.

------
cletus
As much as some people might view this as "sometimes things go wrong", which
is basically true, that's not the whole story.

The story here is that people are doing things that in most jurisdictions are
illegal. AirBnB is profiting off this. Do something illegal and you can't
insure against any negative consequences.

The whole EJ situation is a potential inflection point. Without knowing the
full facts (which no one seems to), it seems like AirBnB was trying to rectify
things with EJ and I suspect they were trying to keep her quiet in the
process. I have no proof of this. I also suspect that they probably
misrepresented their actions to PG. Again I have no proof of this. It is
merely my suspicion.

But there's something "off" about EJ's position here.

Why exactly is a vandalized apartment leaving her homeless? Is it too damaged
to occupy? Does she simply not feel safe there?

If she has received offers for help, why hasn't she taken it? It's possible
she's traumatized by what happens. It's possible she feels so wronged by
AirBnB that she's not acting rationally. Or maybe she just wants to get her
story out to warn people. I really don't know.

Yet something seems... off. The comments of EJ, PG and AirBnB just don't add
up. I'd bet money on there being more to come on this story. And while some
want to give EJ a free pass here, I don't want to vilify her but she has to
take some responsibility for giving strangers the keys to her apartment.

I think AirBnB can count their lucky stars this was just a robbery and not a
rape or murder. Or someone could have set up a drug lab, causing the Feds to
confiscate the property as the proceeds of crime possibly taking months to
sort out and prove the person renting out the property didn't know about the
drug lab.

The hotel industry has fundamental protections for this kind of issue. Not
only security but there's the fact that the hotel owner isn't storing their
prized valuables where guests can steal them. Nor are hotels putting their
staff in a position to be attacked or robbed by a guest sleeping under the
same roof (incidents can occur in a hotel but at least there are locked doors
separating you from the guests). LIkewise hotels take ID (usually).

The legal precedent they set by paying off EJ is a cause for concern though
some argue it isn't. This isn't like Apple choosing to replace broken hardware
they aren't responsible for (this happens). While doing something illegal (and
profiting from it) that can't be insured against, liability is something that
could easily destroy the company.

Ultimately, AirBnB is making a bet they can effect change on the laws relating
to subletting. If the person renting out a room is leasing the property
they're in, there's a good chance they can't sublet it (even though many do).
This may help them on the liability front as well.

Part of the problem here is anonymity on the Internet. This I believe is
changing and it will help (IMHO). But it only takes keylogger malware or
someone sniffing packets at the Internet cafe to steal someone's online
identity and then do what they want.

EDIT: clarifications.

~~~
timr
_"But there's something "off" about EJ's position here. Why is a vandalized
apartment leaving her homeless?"_

Put yourself in the position of a person who has just had their apartment
burglarized (remember: they stole her personal documents and valuables) and
their keys stolen by probable drug addicts. Also, remember that the police
have arrested _one_ of the vandals, but probably not all of them.

Ignoring, for the moment, that the place would be unlivable for a while,
wouldn't you also be wary of middle-of-the-night retribution (or just a repeat
performance) from a bunch of psychotic drug users? I would, and I'm not
exactly a fearful guy.

There are many sketchy details about this story, but EJ's fear of retribution
isn't one of them.

~~~
tptacek
Most everyone on HN is going to agree with what you are saying: that there is
a reasonable narrative in which "EJ" is unable to return to her home due to
fear. As a recent victim of a comparatively pathetic "violent" crime: that is
absolutely something you are concerned about. And that's before we even get to
the topic of "can EJ repair the damage done to her home without diminishing
the expected return from a settlement with Airbnb", which might also keep her
out of her house.

So yes. Let's all agree: it's not crazy to acknowledge that "EJ" is trapped in
a set of circumstances keeping her out of her house.

However. That does not mean the _only_ interpretation of events here is that
"EJ" is fundamentally unable to return to her home. Another possible
interpretation is, she lawyered up ( _good for her_ ), and has been advised
that the longer this remains an issue for her, the better her negotiating
position is.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
I've seen half a dozen replies from you saying she probably has a lawyer and
is trying to milk this, without a shred of evidence, other than "that's what
you would do."

I think presenting that theory once is more than enough - you don't have to
reply to everybody with your theory.

~~~
tptacek
Again with the attempts to factionalize the discussion. "If you're not with
her, you're against us!" It's weird. Why do you feel the need to take sides?

~~~
reinhardt
I don't see an attempt from the GP to _factionalize_ the discussion, at least
in the comment you replied to. But I do see an attempt from you to
_factualize_ it.

------
turar
The identity theft aspect brings up a whole new concern.

If a renter steals a host's identity without trashing their place, there's no
way to know that something went wrong until it's too late.

And if the host subsequently rents her place to other guests, there's no way
to know who the identify thief is.

~~~
cageface
Good point. A smart thief would wait a few months before trying to make use of
the stolen information.

------
class_vs_object
This new account (of a home trashing occurring 1 month ago, of which Airbnb
had knowledge) doesn't seem to reconcile with what Airbnb told EJ:

"I do believe the folks at airbnb.com when they tell me this has never
happened before in their short history, that this is a one-off case."

~~~
jonuts
Even if you don't want to believe EJ's account of the story, Chesky _himself_
made the claim on camera in May (a month after Troy's incident occurred) that
there have been "no major problems"
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etaUBLkRteA&feature=chann...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etaUBLkRteA&feature=channel_video_title#t=5m0s)

I don't see how either of these cases can be viewed as "minor", personally.

------
reso
This is what a bad media cycle looks like. You get a nosebleed in the ocean
and the sharks start circling. They'll get through it, though, I am completely
confident. At the end of the day, the bad guys are the assholes that abuse the
system.

------
jmtame
It's interesting to note the pattern between EJ and Troy: in both of these
cases, the renters were not home, which means they were treating Airbnb more
like a "vacation rental" service. They both had a gut feeling that told them
the rentee was "off" in their communication. They both didn't meet the people
in advance. And the rentees were both meth addicts.

~~~
rdl
Maybe AirBnB should drug test :)

------
uptown
Trashing is one thing ... but how long until a "guest" leaves behind some
hidden cameras?

------
djm
I'm starting to think that these unfortunate incidents may actually provide
airbnb with the future of it's business model.

Right now they are just hooking people up and handling payments. They could go
from that to learning how to put in place the best
verification/insurance/customer service/emergency handling mechanisms in order
to beat competitors in service quality.

It's analagous to how paypal won payments by learning to be the best at
handling fraud.

------
nanijoe
Hopefully, AirBnB is learning what most rookie politicians already know, ie
Take care of your PR problems before close of business on Friday , otherwise
the entire weekend will feel like one looong horror movie. The good news
though is that by Monday morning, people are usually ready to move on to some
other news item.

------
Uchikoma
Creepy for guests: One could book AirBNB space and then reoffer it on AirBNB
(is this possible?) or craigslist. So when you arrive, there is a "host" which
is not the real one.

------
farrel
Besides liability for damages incurred by the guest, hosts are also probably
on the hook for liability should the guest be injured (or worse) while staying
in your place.

~~~
class_vs_object
> Besides liability for damages incurred by the guest, hosts are also probably
> on the hook for liability should the guest be injured (or worse) while
> staying in your place.

Good point. I'd imagine hotels are required by law in most jurisdictions to
take out public liability insurance.

Then there is the issue of who is responsible for ensuring that properties are
actually safe for rental on Airbnb (i.e., no exposed electrical wires,
slippery steps, etc.)

------
jonuts
Here is Brian Chesky claiming there have been "no reports of major problems"
with AirBnB at TC Disrupt in May.
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etaUBLkRteA&feature=chann...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etaUBLkRteA&feature=channel_video_title#t=5m0s)

Whoops?

------
beedogs
I think it's time for a name change... to AirB&E.

------
nodata
I'm struggling to believe how much of a cock-up this is becoming. What should
be a simple reality: "sometimes things will go wrong" is turning into
something that even seems to be infectious. I give it two days before Y
Combinator is explicitly associated with airbnb in a newspaper.

~~~
abrimo
Sometimes things do go wrong however the impact of them going wrong differs
between businesses. When things go wrong for a mobile phone company lots of
people might have poor reception but when things go wrong for AirBNB, a person
could actually get killed. This has always been my fear and I sincerely hope
they shutdown or pivot before this happens.

AirBNB hasn't been upfront about the level of risk their customers undertake
when they use their service. And the downside, however rare a occurrence (even
if it's one in a million or one in a thousand) is just too bad to even
consider consider using them.

~~~
ThePawnBreak
"even if it's one in a million or one in a thousand" The probability of being
killed ( or at least hurt ) while driving to work is probably larger than 1 in
a milion.

------
yason
I might be too old for AirBNB but I wouldn't feel okay accommodating strangers
in my _own apartment_.

I will do that for friends and if I'm around myself, for friends of friends
too, but even then the scheme needs to originate from some plausible
circumstances where I can evaluate my potential guest in other context before
we discuss accommodation. So, receiving an email from someone I don't know
("hey, I know your friend, can I stay at your place?") doesn't fly.

It's my home and I don't want to think about whether tonight's guest is that
one from a thousand or ten thousand who will wreck my place.

------
Omnipresent
Arrington, "in his arrington way", is really out to screw AirBnB now.

~~~
xianshou
TechCrunch has always smelled slightly of yellow journalism, but I would say
that, on average, they've given Airbnb fair treatment. Arrington and the TC
crew have written very enthusiastically about Airbnb in the past, perhaps
excessively so, and now they are fulminating about the users who have been
mistreated by Airbnb renters, again perhaps excessively so. Still, I would
rather that these cases reach a public forum than that Airbnb have carte
blanche to whitewash them for the sake of investor happiness.

------
uladzislau
This one is even more bizarre story than the first one. The part about left
cat and stolen computer is hilarious. I'm sure there should be more to this
kind of horror stories from Airbnb, EJ was just the first brave person to come
forward on her blog. Kudos to her and Mr. Dayton, otherwise such things could
happen to many more Airbnb customers including HN crowd. And everybody who is
defending Airbnb now should think how would they feel if something like this
happened to them or their home.

------
code_duck
AirBnB never should have set up such an unsafe system, but surely the
decisions of the renters are at fault as well. I personally would never even
consider allowing people who were not carefully screened by myself to have
free reign with my property.

I'm pretty sure this is getting large enough to garner the attention of
politicians. That may be a positive thing, since AirBnB and their clients are
apparently not taking care of safety and procedures adequately on their own.

~~~
mkramlich
My take is the #1 fault is the alledged scumbags who did alleged bad things to
the host's property. The #2 fault is the hosts for showing such utter naivete
and ignorance about (a) what to leave in the apartment, and (b) understanding
what could possibly happen when the strangers stay there and accepting those
risks as the flip side of the coin. To the extent AirBnB has done anything
wrong or imperfect, it's farther down the list than these actors in the drama.
And all of this assumes that the alleged incidents happened exactly as they
were portrayed, and were not in fact fraudulent "hit jobs" -- an issue that
has not been settled yet, or rather should not be settled in any reasonably
skeptical person's mind, given the sum total and nature of the "evidence" and
the market context.

~~~
code_duck
In my opinion, AirBnB should be providing more of an upfront opportunity for a
host to screen a prospective client in advance, with no pressure. If they
can't do this, they need to do a very good job of it themselves. That's the
crucial aspect of their involvement. From my reading of the EJ story, she had
no opportunity to learn anything about her client prior to accepting the
reservation. AirBnB has changed this since then, I believe?

Regardless of these incidents, ad-hoc home rental is a potentially dangerous
situation for both sides of the deal. It's positive that this controversy has
prompted AirBnB to go beyond making jokes about piano thievery, and realize
that safety of everyone involved is a critical issue.

------
rwallace
What we aren't hearing about is the people who declined to use Airbnb and had
their homes ransacked because a burglar spotted they were empty. The risk of
having the place trashed by a guest has to be offset against the improved
security from having somebody in the place. Do we have any data or even
credible estimates of the sign and magnitude of the _difference_ in security
from using Airbnb?

------
larrys
I wonder if it occurs to anyone how renting your place out impacts your
neighbors. I'm not sure everyone is happy about transients coming and going in
a particular building that someone might rent out and the safety of that to
others in the building. Some condo buildings for example don't even allow a
lease of less than 1 year because it changes the nature of the building.

------
anonymous
What if the hotel industry is setting up these unsuspecting customers of
AirBnB? They, the hotel chains really don't like this business model. Create
enough negative press, a carefully crafted situation that will cause a
busienss to fail and they you can cash in on how "safe" a Hotel chain is...

------
rglover
After reading EJ's story and now this, I think it's safe to say that although
what's taken place is unfortunate, it's really up to the person renting out
their place to protect themselves. If Airbnb absolves themselves in their
policy docs, then there's not much they have to do if something bad happens.
On the contrary, however, they obviously need to have a serious overhaul of
how they portray security to customers, as well as the vetting process for
renters. Also, developing some sort of insurance program will help to skirt
some major issues. I'm glad this is happening now, though, before someone gets
hurt. Hopefully Airbnb will look at these events as warnings and take the
necessary steps to refine how they protect themselves and their customers.

------
daynaalexis
Two words: shadow economy

[http://www.alexisofthought.com/2011/08/our-brief-
relationshi...](http://www.alexisofthought.com/2011/08/our-brief-relationship-
with-airbnb.html)

------
jh3
It's a damn shame that people can't trust people.

------
bproper
For God's sake we get it. Why does this drivel have to be on HN everyday?
Sometimes when you deal with strangers, they are crazy. Not TECH, Not HACKER,
Not INTERESTING!

------
muratmutlu
My favourite part of the story is they stole the computer...and left a cat!!

------
jsavimbi
> At the end of the day you are renting to a stranger.

No better words can express my sentiments. Airbnb customers are participating
in a business experiment, they're not hoteliers.

What I do find worrisome is that Airbnb being in the customer service
business, doesn't appear to be focusing on the user experience at all. What
did they do with the money?

~~~
mgkimsal
Probably invested much of it in color.com. :)

~~~
mgkimsal
Sheesh - it was meant as a bit of a joke - hence the :)

~~~
allenbrunson
So, it was meant to be a joke. Sadly, it wasn't a _funny_ joke. And it adds
nothing to the conversation. Hence, downvotes.

HN observers often assume we don't have a sense of humor around here.
Actually, I've seen a number of funny comments upvoted, and have done so many
times myself. It's closer to the truth to say that most people aren't nearly
as funny as they think they are.

~~~
msg
The other problem is that it is interchangeable with many other jokes of the
same flavor, ie, they were buying Facebook private shares, getting into the
LinkedIn IPO, et cetera. This is a tip off that even if it's funny it might
not be relevant.

See also the South Park critique of Family Guy.

Saying they were doubling down buying shares in Hilton and Motel 6 would at
least have been marginally on topic. But still a bit obvious, right?

~~~
gfodor
"supporting their meth addiction" might have worked

~~~
mgkimsal
Touche! Only 14 hours too late for me, I fear. :(

------
HanPham
Seriously, fuck this guy. AirBNB simply facilitates finding people. AirBNB
doesn't owe these people a single cent. In fact these AirBNB "victims" should
apologize for their self-centered whining. Don't want any risk? Then don't let
anyone into your house, dumbass. Don't blame random companies just because
you're a fucking idiot.

~~~
_delirium
I don't think AirBnB's involvement is that peripheral. Unlike Craigslist, they
don't _just_ operate a site that facilitates finding people; they're active
participants in every transaction, and are the ones on record charging credit
cards for the rentals.

------
JVerstry
Renting to strangers is like having sex without protection. Period.

~~~
hnal943
There's lots of ways to protect yourself when renting to strangers. The fact
that EJ and others do not avail themselves of the necessary insurance, etc. is
what's reckless.

~~~
scott_s
As has been pointed out multiple times, there is probably no insurance policy
that would cover your apartment if you rent it out with AirBNB. Renter's
insurance won't cover it, and individuals can't get the kind of insurance
hotels get because they don't own the property. And if you meet the
classification of a hotel, then there's a good chance you're breaking the law
in some places. You can't get insurance while breaking the law.

~~~
ugh
Why wouldn’t insurances want to insure, though? This is a rare event,
insurances love rare events. One problem might be AirBnB’s lack of
transparency: Insurances have to know exactly how rare something is. They
currently only know it’s rare, not how rare it is.

(That said, it seems they could start with a relatively high estimate and
adjust it up- or downwards when they start insuring, depending on how often
and how much they have to pay. It seems like this would be something
insurances excel it, seeing as it’s how they make their money. I’m sure at
least AirBnB could work something out with insurances.)

------
AndyJPartridge
Stay or rent, you have a choice to do either.

(Can't think of anything else to add, sorry.)

------
zalzally
If I were Arrington, I would have posted this story first thing Monday
morning.

~~~
pseudonym
Oh, don't worry, I'm sure there's going to be a glut of these stories queued
up for about 2am Tuesday morning.

