
Nebia (YC S15), a Shower Head Start-Up, Receives Funding from Tim Cook of Apple - marcjones281
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/nebia-a-shower-head-start-up-gets-funded-by-apple-ceo-cook/?_r=0
======
giarc
For those surprised by the cost, I did a quick search on HomeDepot.com for the
current line up of "shower head"s.

The largest category is the $50-100 group where HomeDepot lists 633 products.
In the $200-250 category, where the Nebia is priced there are 95. Above $250,
HomeDepot carries nearly 450 products including a $5500 shower head.

So if you think this is too much money to pay for a shower head, think again.
It's the same discussion that appears every time Dyson launches a product (see
LED light).

~~~
dsr_
Remember, too, that Home Depot has the advantage of not having to stock
everything everywhere. If they have 450 shower heads that cost over $250, it's
a good bet that most of their stores carry one or two of them at most -- and
that they can all be ordered, if that's what you want.

I wouldn't be too surprised if HD actually has no warehouse where you can find
a $5500 shower head -- but the manufacturer will happily ship you one when HD
orders it. Or perhaps they will make one when you order it. I don't see the
$5500 shower head as being in high demand or time-sensitive.

~~~
giarc
You are correct, the HD page lists 124 shower heads as "in store". And even
then I'm sure it varies store to store.

My comment was more to say, $250 isn't a crazy expensive shower head. I
wouldn't consider it to be in the elite category only accessible to the
world's 1%. Even at $400 (the eventual retail price) it's not bad. HD has
nearly 200 shower heads between $300-$500. Restoration Hardware has a similar
shower head to the Nedia (minus the small droplet water) for $1000 and
Restoration Hardware exists in many malls around NA
([https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product....](https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod6510241&categoryId=cat3850062)).

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sachinag
Why on earth would they focus on the payback period when the point is that _it
's a better shower_? Is this because Kickstarter backers are supposedly more
rational consumers than other people? I doubt that. If it's a more pleasant
shower, then _sell that_.

~~~
roymurdock
Agreed, with a price tag of $400 this is a luxury product. Early adopters
aren't going to care about a payback period in the slightest - they just want
to experience the cool factor of a new shower + the feel good factor of saving
water.

Maybe the company foresees on some kind of government subsidy to make these
more affordable in the future?

Side note: Without having tried it, I find the idea of being misted like a
vegetable in a grocery store somewhat unappealing as opposed to a nice hot
shower after a long day of work. Perhaps the actual feeling is a lot nicer
than I'm imagining with this level of VC/investor support.

------
gallamine
I'm curious to know how the droplet size effects the water temperature
required to take, "a nice hot shower." Wouldn't the smaller droplets increase
surface area and convection/radiative heat loss? There is a certain sublime
feeling of having hot droplets rain down on you.

------
aedocw
Buckminster Fuller had the same idea in the early 1930's with the fog gun
shower[1]. I sometimes wonder how many of his ideas will be recycled and gain
traction in the years to come.

[1]: [http://www.bfi.org/about-fuller/big-ideas/dymaxion-
world/dym...](http://www.bfi.org/about-fuller/big-ideas/dymaxion-
world/dymaxion-bathroom)

------
foolfoolz
anyone really think a $250 shower head is going to withstand pressure from the
sub $30 knockoffs that hit the market a year later?

~~~
chaostheory
Does Dyson have trouble fighting knockoffs?

~~~
qq66
The bestselling upright vacuum on Amazon, the Bissell Cleanview, looks quite a
bit like the original Dysons.

~~~
chaostheory
[http://patentblast.com/patent_litigation_cases/dyson-inc-
v-b...](http://patentblast.com/patent_litigation_cases/dyson-inc-v-bissell-
homecare-inc/)

Not sure if it's been resolved.

------
aresant
A "shower head" start up? Atomized water? From YC?

Digging into the multiple reviews / press articles I think I figured out why
investors love this and we should be compelled.

This is not a "shower head".

This is something new that has the same end-game of getting you clean like a
shower head, but much more efficiently:

“It’s like walking into a humid environment that gets you super drenched,”
Winter [Nebia's CEO] said, insisting that the mist is powerful enough to
handle elaborate shampoo and conditioner rituals. (1)

and

“So I’m standing under it, and one of the things I realize is that it’s really
hard to explain,” says Parisi-Amon [Nebia's CTO] “You tell people it’s
fundamentally different and they’re like, ‘Whatever, it’s a shower.’” (2)

It's fascinating to see the press then try to get their head around it too:

NYT - "In my testing of a prototype, the multinozzle shower head produced a
misty spray (the word nebbia in Italian means mist) that immersed me in water,
unlike traditional shower heads that shoot pressurized streams of water. It
made my hair feel flat and uncooperative, though my skin felt soft and
relaxed." (3)

Buzzfeed - "Instead, at first, I felt nothing — as if there weren’t enough
water to get wet, let alone shower. It felt like stepping under the nozzle
that mists vegetables at the grocery store, and the mist kept recirculating —
like a sauna with whatever makes saunas work on overdrive. While I didn’t
think it would, the mist eventually got the job done. I still got wet. The
soap still foamed, and it still came off. I felt clean. . . BuzzFeed News can
confirm that this is definitely a shower."

I'd love to try one before committing to $400 (consumer price) and a plumbing
project.

And I think they've covered that with the brilliant strategy of pulling in
Equinox Gyms and the implication that Goog/Apple will have these installed on
campus.

Cool!

\- - - -

(1) [http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/S-F-startup-
clai...](http://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/S-F-startup-claims-its-
misty-shower-uses-70-6436306.php?t=8a27cb5cff#photo-8422884)

(2) [http://www.wired.com/2015/08/nebia/](http://www.wired.com/2015/08/nebia/)

(3) [http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/nebia-a-shower-
head...](http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/11/nebia-a-shower-head-start-
up-gets-funded-by-apple-ceo-cook/)

(4) [http://www.buzzfeed.com/brendanklinkenberg/i-tried-
silicon-v...](http://www.buzzfeed.com/brendanklinkenberg/i-tried-silicon-
valleys-hottest-shower?utm_term=.vk5PERomw1#.qrGg3bj7O3)

~~~
tlb
I showered with it, and it convinced me.

It does lack the mechanical blasting action of regular showers, which is good
for removing caked mud. But that doesn't come up often in my life. I found it
more pleasant and just as fast for normal feel-good, smell-good showering
purposes.

~~~
strictnein
> "It does lack the mechanical blasting action of regular showers, which is
> good for removing caked mud"

Hmm, I need that, just due to playing with (and having) kids and doing yard
work. I could imagine redoing a bathroom and having a shower large enough for
a traditional shower head on one side, and this on the other.

~~~
brock_r
Maybe they need to add a button that converts it to a normal spray?

~~~
pwinter28
We have added in a secondary mode which does exactly this, offers a more
traditional, even forceful feel, yet still uses about 60% less water than a
regular shower.

------
rogerbinns
The drawback to smaller droplets is that the larger surface area means they
lose heat quicker, and so can consume more energy. The same problem occurs
with those heads that put air into the center of each droplet.

I recommend trying out h2okinetic shower heads (now owned by delta in the US).
They have channels that cause something similar to cavitation which then
results in large droplets widely spread. It is like being in a rain storm. The
result is feeling like more water is flowing than actually is, so flow rates
can be reduced.

Their 90 second fluff piece video explains it, with the actual working (not
moving) part shown at 30 seconds in: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxWeyd-
pnK8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxWeyd-pnK8)

------
zoul
I wonder how it copes with calcium scaling?

------
booop
YC seems to have taken in a lot of unusual startups this year.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Perhaps its a sign that its getting harder to find ideas with huge growth
potential?

With that said, it does look like Nebia is solving a real problem (their
shower head uses 6 gallons of water for a shower vs the traditional 20
gallons).

It appears they have a Kickstarter as well:
[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1499369835/nebia-
shower...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1499369835/nebia-shower-
better-experience-70-less-water)

~~~
jonlucc
Sure, but at $250, I can afford a lot of water before it becomes cost-
effective. They look like they're aiming at making a premium shower
experience.I'm skeptical that it would take the soap off my body, though.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Their copy on Kickstarter says it pays for itself in 2 years.

Think of it like Tesla for shower heads: Yeah, its expensive. Yeah, they're
selling upmarket first. But it has a the potential to save _a lot_ of water
across the world if they ramp quickly and can drive the price down. (EDIT:
Luckily, you don't need gigafactories for showerheads. It appears that their
design can use traditional manufacturing methods, so it won't be terribly
capital intensive.)

Places where water is a cost center (Hotels, AirBnB hosts, gyms, etc) would
probably be the primary demand drivers to start.

~~~
Plough_Jogger
The analogy to Tesla is a poor one; this product is easily reproducible, and
the homeware space is rife with imitation products that are notoriously
difficult to protect with IP. I feel this product is more suitable for an
infomercial than VC investment.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Disagree. Tesla _gave its patents away_ (short answer. long answer is they'll
license them to you for no cost if you play nicely). You _can_ still patent
things in the US, as well as enforce your trademarks.

~~~
nerfhammer
Tesla's products are not easily reproducible regardless

~~~
toomuchtodo
Technically, the hardware is easily reproducible (battery pack and electric
motors). Its the software and firmware where the magic sauce lies, as well as
the supercharger network and their unbeatable service.

I concede that anyone could copy a shower head and that you're relying on the
rule of law to protect your invention. I don't see the problem with that, as
that's how most manufacturing operates in the 21st century.

------
danr4
I slightly cringe when startups that receive funding start a kickstarter
campaign just for the hype.

Nevertheless, the product looks really awesome and I would love to try it.

~~~
snake117
I couldn't agree more. You would think with the funding they receive they
wouldn't need to raise a 100k. I like the idea and would be definitely
interested in trying it out, but there are other ways to advertise your
product.

~~~
pwinter28
dan and snake, thanks for your comments. We decided to launch on Kickstarter
because we wanted to gauge what the interest level among consumers would be.
Furthermore, KS is the best place to gather significant quantities of feedback
on product features and finishing touches before going to mass production. Our
decision to raise funds on KS is more about learning from our backers and
gauging initial interest than anything else.

~~~
danr4
I hope that's true, but I have reasons to doubt it. While the consumer bit
might be accuratr (albeit it's more early adopters oriented), I don't think KS
is "the best place to gather feedback" since your partnerships with the
various institutes and companies should have given you just that without the
pressure and obligations that come with KS campaigns.

------
jahabrewer
With some quick back-of-the-napkin math, I get just under 4 years of daily
showers to break even (with their $400 retail price, assuming a generous
$0.02/gal ($15/CCF), which is the highest residential marginal seasonal rate
where I am).

If I wanted to reduce my water usage, I'd just take shorter showers and
alternate days when I've not yet become smelly. These cost $0 and yield
immediate savings.

~~~
coryl
_If I wanted to reduce my water usage, I 'd just take shorter showers and
alternate days when I've not yet become smelly. These cost $0 and yield
immediate savings._

Changing a person's behaviour, including your own, is pretty hard, its its
less likely you'll actually follow through and take less showers.

Some people also live in households with multiple people, so that can affect
your math as well.

~~~
dwightgunning
Changing a person's ability to recognise this is even harder.

------
__Joker
Power saving/ water saving FWIW is a social fashion, which the consumer need
to show up. You need to show up your priuses and teslas. Your shower head
might not make that ecological concern statement that people might be looking
for.

I am not sure how much water to energy to dollars it would save against a
conventional shower-head for to be positioned for budget customers, like say a
energy consuming light bulbs.

May be it gives a different shower feeling and people will like it simply
based on that.

Whatever the concern may be the product is worth building, if nothing else to
expand our horizons, be it in our success or be it in our failures.

------
kilotaras
Wouldn't minerals residue become a problem quite quickly in some places. I
don't think it will be as easy to remove as from regular shower head.

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webnrrd2k
Does any one know if it'll wash out shampoo or conditioner? I have trouble
believing you can wash your hair with it, which makes $400 seem steep.

------
wehadfun
I would be surprised if anyone who would but a $250 shower head cares about
saving money on their water bill.

------
freefrancisco
Interesting but too expensive for just a shower head, if it did something
else, for example remove fluoride from the water, then I might be more
inclined to buy it.

------
gkya
Every time I see such startup attempt with an invention I think of this: They
have made an invention, then they've patented it to prevent others from making
the same product and selling it, then they'll start selling this thing and if
they are somehow happen to be very successful (microsoft, apple, google, etc.)
we'll accuse them of becoming trusts, as if they've not shown the intent
thereof with the very action of patenting the invention, and as if when a
startup comes out with the slogan "our invention will revolutionise the
world," they are not willing to be the one company that sells every single
instance of the product, which is, well, the very definition of a trust. So at
the end of the day it is legitimate to feed the aspiring trusts until the day
they become actual trusts bashing others with their patents, when we'll call
them patent trolls that are killing the startup arena, market, world or
whatever. Enter out two-faced deceitful and hypocritical western culture.

Then, a "shower-head startup" sounds more like a name for a comic strip than
an actual business. I'm sorry, and I know that here is news dot _ycombinator_
dot com, but yet, this startup thing is really becoming a big joke.

~~~
volaski
I don't even know what you are rambling on and on about esoterically in the
first paragraph, but as for your argument in the second paragraph, there are
actual existing "businesses" that _do_ sell showerheads. You bought it. I
bought it. Everyone who lives in a house with a bathroom bought it. Otherwise
we wouldn't have showerheads. It's not a comic strip.

