
Depression is not a malfunction - nreece
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary
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blhack
Anecdotal, but this seems to back up what I've experienced in life...

I've dealt with _bad_ depression for most of my life..and it really, really
sucks. When I "come out" of it, I'll look back at some of the things I did and
said while I was depressed and just be like "WTF!?". It will usually result in
my apologizing to people around me for acting bizarre, and alienating myself
from whatever friends I had previously made.

Suck-zore.

The _GOOD_ thing about it is that depression has almost always been a major
brain-catalyst for me. When I was young, the first thing that got catalyzed
was dirt-bikes. For a summer I did almost literally _nothing_ other than read
about, and ride dirtbikes. I emerged from that knowing more than anybody I
know of about all the racers and bikes and parts and tracks etc. etc.

Then I discovered computers...

I know it's stupid and childish to reference the Hacker's Manifesto...but that
pretty much nailed it for me. Here is something that doesn't get mad at me for
being depressed, or scream at me to stop talking back, or think I'm weird, or
anything like that....

Hands down, my best code has been written while I'm depressed.

For somebody that can't imagine what being depressed is like...imagine taking
a photo that is out of focus, nothing really makes any sense at all. You can
make out shapes, but they're blurry and not that meaningful. That is
depression (well, that is actually a better descriptor for mania, not
depression...depression would be more like really low light)...

Sitting down at a computer and getting buried under a bunch of code is...in
focus, if that makes sense. When you're manic, or depressed, code is something
solid that you can grab on to.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense.

~~~
snowflakes
In my case, being depressed means much deeper understanding and much more
sharper mind. I even have an impression that the hard period I had few years
ago, when I was _only_ working and reading books, formed me intellectually.

On the other hand, I quickly realize that _consequences_ of my thoughts are
rather pointless. Not that my thoughts are pointless; far from it. The catch
is that, actually, I couldn't care less about consequences of my thoughts, as
they have little impact on the world.

Most of the time, I even don't care about sharing my thoughts with the world.
I speak a lot with my girlfriend and a couple of friends but, for example,
writing articles is pointless because I will have to deal with not
understanding people.

The paradoxical consequence of thinking too much is mistrusting yourself. If
you have an opinion which is very solid logically but is against 99% of the
population, it is easy to wonder whom is wrong: the whole society or you.

That's why coding helps me a lot. The logical framework of code points me out
that my thoughts are not pointless and my mind is not disorted anyhow. Coding
helps me to get peace of mind. I'm much more relaxed when I write code.

I believe this is one of the reasons why a lot of people went to mathematics
as well. If you mistrust yourself, you have to have a framework that keeps you
in touch with the real world. Logic ensures that you are not crazy, yet.

Also, that's why coding is so addictive. It takes a week without coding to get
me anxious. Without coding, I feel that my brain lacks some chemistry.

Personally I believe that depression, or any other unusual state of mind, is
just a filter that disorts the output of your mind. It gives you a very
different perspective, but if you're blind, it won't help you anyhow.

This is partially the reason why it is hard to decide whether depression is a
problem, or not. Smart people might gain a lot from different states of mind;
regular folks, well, not much.

To be honest, I'm not sure whether depression is actually a cause or a result,
in case of some people. If you start thinking too much and realize how the
world actually looks, it is easy to get depressed a bit.

PS. I've created a separate account for purpose of this comment; I feel this
is too personal. Sorry that this is a bit chaotic but I don't have enough time
to write the shorter comment so I wrote the longer one.

~~~
jackchristopher
This concept sounds similar to the point you make:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism>

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neilk
This article seems to be mostly speculation and is frankly weird in its
assertions.

The very definition of depression is _un_ productive behaviors, and patterns
of thought that go in circles.

There is a productive emotion that causes both reflectiveness and social
isolation; it's called "sadness". People often describe a period of mourning
as a necessary downtime, a reconfiguration, to get ready for the rest of one's
life. I have never heard anyone describe depression as anything other than a
waste of time.

~~~
bkovitz
Yup. It's amateurish speculation.

Some problems with the speculation, known to anyone who has read about or
dealt with depression:

* Difficulty concentrating is one of the symptoms of depression. You can't think.

* Depression typically begins for no apparent reason in the person's life circumstances. It's often seasonal, triggered by things like changes in the length of the day.

* Depression doesn't lift when you've solved a problem. It lifts for no apparent reason, too.

* Depression is often fatal.

A better speculation: depression is a disorder of the circadian rhythms.

~~~
timr
Your speculation has been extensively explored, and isn't actually better than
the theory advanced in the article:

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=D...](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=depression+circadian+rhythm&log$=activity)

Reading over a few of the abstracts, the consensus appears to be that
depression _can_ be caused by defects in circadian rhythm, but that the
relationship isn't necessary, and may not be sufficient. If I were you, I'd
ease off on using _"amateurish speculation"_ as an epithet in this situation.

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Virax
Depression is very much a malfunction. When I was depressed, I wasn't
functioning, and now that I take drugs every day to control it (over-the-
counter drugs, btw), I function quite well.

What _is_ true is that being just shy of depression is probably adaptive and
beneficial, which is why there are many examples of brilliant people who spent
part of their lives depressed. It also explains why genes "for depression"
haven't been selected out of the gene pool - it is likely that they are
beneficial for the majority of carriers (makes you work harder, you're less
satisfied with what you have, etc...) but if you have too many of these genes,
then you just hate life and want to kill yourself, at least sometimes.

BTW the Wikipedia article on depression is very good and has links to some
relatively accessible journal articles on current thinking about depression.

~~~
spydez
What OTC drugs are there for depression?

~~~
mattmaroon
Beer.

~~~
gojomo
While a popular home remedy, beer often makes the condition worse.

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tokenadult
submitted four days ago with the original article title:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=788259>

<http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

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greg
Very interesting topic. A few checks on current comments:

The metaphor of the brain as a carefully portioned soup of chemicals should be
retired. The brain is a modularized information processor. While you can pour
in more "happy" molecules (try morphine), this still causes a cascade of other
effects. Prozac doesn't start working for two weeks -- figure that one out!

Drawing a line between clinical depression and healthy sadness is easier said
than done. Almost no one gets depressed without triggering life events. The
difference is in depth and recovery. In any case, we still don't have a good
idea what is "healthy" about sadness.

It is really hard to judge the long-term benefits of depression. Evolution
plays out over generations. Modern society is not what we are adapted for
anyway. Maybe we should study siblings of suicides to see if they are somehow
more biologically successful on average.

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teeja
I don't trust the human body when it comes to pain. It tends to go on way
longer than I need it to get the point.

I also find it hard to think of something that strips away your motivation,
even your desire to experience things that have always delighted you, as a
positive. It's a very vulnerable state, not something to be sought.

That said, it's part of life for many people, moreso in creative people, and
learning to recognize it and take steps to unravel it is essential to one's
future health.

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necro
After reading the article it is clear to me that perhaps the best treatment
for depression would be a start up. The symptoms fall right in line with a
startup lifestyle: ability and need to continuously work on problems dividing
them smaller and smaller, eating disorders and weight loss or gain, isolation
and not spending time with friends and loved ones, etc. I'm not depressed but
my startup lifestyle sure has me living with the symptoms.

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angstrom
Ignoring chemical imbalances, most depression stems from a loss of control in
ones life. If depression is really just a side effect of having a self image
and a sense of control over that future self image then the benefit is the
ability to adapt. The problem may not even have a solution, it may just be a
need to reconfigure the self image in accordance with reality.

~~~
njharman
It's bad that the word depression is used for two dramatically different
conditions.

Clinical/chemical depression. (which btw _causes_ loss of control of ones
life)

Emotional depression.

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polos
Depression is the symptom you get when your soul is left without sufficient
daily nutrition, happening for a longer period.

Now, what does the soul "eat"? Love! In any form, and there are so many.

Depression is actually exploding in our current times, all over the world. How
will future generations judge the health state of our current situation? Hmm..

~~~
yan
That's cute and all, but your mood is influenced by chemicals (influenced by,
or _is_ is beyond the scope of this conversation) and an imbalance in those
chemicals will lead to a disorder that you can fix by improving that balance.
I'm also not saying loving someone won't do that.

No one says you can solve a malfunctioning liver with love.

edit: Also, depression doesn't just mean being down and the cure for it is
'cheering' up. Depression is an overloaded word.

