
MtGox: Announcement of Commencement of Civil Rehabilitation Proceedings [pdf] - chollida1
https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20180622_announcement_en.pdf
======
chadbennett
(Question from the FAQ) Although I have not filed a proof of claim by the
filing deadline for the bankruptcy proceedings, can I file a proof of claim in
the civil rehabilitation proceedings?

(Answer) Those who have not filed proof of claims in the bankruptcy
proceedings or who have filed proof of claims after the filing period had
passed (i.e., the date of the investigation of claims, May 25, 2016), may file
proof of claims in the civil rehabilitation proceedings. We plan to post
further details on this website.

------
danepowell
If I'm pretty sure I had money in Mt Gox but I'm not sure how much, how could
I ever file a "proof of claim"? It's not like Mt Gox was sending depositors
balance statements every month or something.

~~~
kristofferR
The complete trade history of every MtGox customer up to 30.11.2013 was leaked
in 2014, you can find your own trade records in the leak. However, the leaked
trade records didn't contain emails/names that you can search for, so you need
other details to discover what your userID is. This page may be helpful:
[https://bitcoin.tax/mtgox](https://bitcoin.tax/mtgox)

If you registered at MTGox before mid-2011 you can use the user database leak
from around then to find your userID, which you can then use to search the
trade records.

~~~
massaman_yams
I did a quick look, and balance info appears to be available through
2014-02-25, if the 'stamp' field in the mtgox_balances file is to be trusted.

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Tepix
Interesting claim:

Q15) How was the Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash sold?

A15) As in sales from December 2017 to February 2018, upon consultation with
cryptocurrency transaction experts, Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash were sold in a
manner that had no effect on market price and not by ordinary sale on an
exchange

Wasn't there a paper that showed a strong correlation between a the time of
the bitcoin transfers from MtGox and subsequent strong decreases in BTC
prices?

~~~
koolba
Even if it wasn't sold directly on an exchange the recipient of the bitcoin
could have transferred and dumped the coins on an exchange.

They could also have sold an existing position to net their new exposure to
zero.

~~~
artursapek
Also, people were watching those addresses. So when it was sold off-exchange,
people still could see it and react.

~~~
judofyr
If the market assumes "coins are moving" to be equivalent with "coins are
being sold", then the market is stupid.

The coins could have been moved around for other reasons than to sell them.
The coins could also have been sold at certain price at a certain time, but
with a contract that says it won't be moved until a time in the future.

The market did _not_ react to coins being sold. It reacted to coins being
_moved_ and it made certain assumptions.

As far as I can see, the trustee has done everything correct regarding the
sale (not flooding the market). It's just the market that is so volatile that
it reacts to every tiny thing that happens.

~~~
darawk
>If the market assumes "coins are moving" to be equivalent with "coins are
being sold", then the market is stupid.

And yet, whoever sold off at that time is probably pretty happy with
themselves.

------
agorabinary
Just read it through and it seems that:

a) any owed assets will be paid in Bitcoin, unlike the bankruptcy proceedings
which gave you fiat at (I believe) the rate when mtgox went under

b) a form will be posted to mtgox.com to fill out and send to them before
October 22, 2018

Has anyone who filed in the bankruptcy proceedings got any money back? If so
did you get it all back?

~~~
HarveySpecter01
Had 2 BTC in there. My claim was approved and everything, but I haven't heard
of anybody getting anything back yet.

~~~
agorabinary
Ok interesting. Maybe their plan is that once all the claims are in, if total
valid claims amount < recovered coins, everyone (who filed) gets full amount
back. Hopefully anyway

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swalsh
I left a small fraction of a bitcoin in my mtgox account years ago, because I
couldn't be bothered to look up the exact decimal value when I transferred it
out. I bought at I believe $8. At the time, it was worth a few cents. Today I
think it's worth something like $3k.

~~~
sgwae
There is no obligation to return the current market value. To make you whole,
you would get 8 back.

~~~
genericone
He used $8 to receive in exchange a certain amount of bitcoin. What he lost
when Mtgox filed for bankruptcy was bitcoin, not USD. To make whole, shouldn't
you receive what was lost?

~~~
bjl
That's not how bankruptcy works. He effectively made an unsecured, interest-
free loan to Mt Gox for $8. The only thing he's entitled to in the event of
default is that $8, what the company used his loan for is irrelevant.

~~~
hartator
I think OP meant he left $8 worth at the time of BTC in his account, not $8
USD.

~~~
bjl
It doesn't matter whether his $8 was in the form of BTC or not, _all he did
was make an $8 loan_. Sure, the loan contract might have stated he could've
accepted BTC instead of cash at withdrawel, but that's completely irrelevant
once the loan issuer entered default. At that point OP is obliged to accept
JPY as restitution, per the bankruptcy laws of the relevant jurisdiction.

------
jerf
What's the current value of BitCoin against USD relative to the price Mt Gox
went under? (I do not know where to go to conveniently answer that question
and I'm sure there are many who will read this who will.)

~~~
pkkp
BTC was priced at ~$825 on 2/1/2014 when Mt Gox disabled transactions, and is
around $6,150 now. Provided they're able to pay out ~13% of each claim,
claimants will at least be able to "break even" on the freeze (ignoring, of
course, BTC's astronomical gains in the last 4 years).

~~~
pontifier
You forget that on Mt Gox, the price dropped to something like $125 before
they shut off trading... I know because I bought some at that price just
before they went dark

~~~
MertsA
Same here. Everyone was fleeing from BTC like rats from a ship. Luckily I
managed to sell everything I had when it was close to $1000 and buy all the
BTC I could when the price dropped to two hundred something.

------
ianferrel
I am a ~1BTC debtor of MtGox, and while I understand that this is a positive
development for those with substantial assets, I kind of just want to get
something and move on.

The fact that I now have to dig through my paperwork and refile another claim,
and maybe wait another year or five is annoying.

~~~
tinco
Your claim was worth around $483 plus some interest. With this CR your claim
will be worth that plus over 15% of what a BTC is worth in those N years. Your
claim will likely be doubled, surely that's worth under an hour of your time
scanning your passport again?

~~~
ianferrel
If I were actually sure to get that money, of course. I'm not as confident as
you are.

Let's put it this way. If I were to offer you my full stake of whatever I am
due from MtGox in the next 5 years, would you pay me $450 right now? (Assume I
can prove to you that my original claim of not quite a bitcoin was valid)

~~~
tinco
Yes. That's quite a good deal, the trustee has already secured cash backing
for the cash value of your claim.

~~~
ianferrel
Cool. I'm in. What sort of proof do you want me to provide?

~~~
tinco
Shit, now I actually have to come up with the money ;) In July the trustee is
going to announce how the claims are supposed to be made. I'll send you
another message when that's clear so we can set something up. If I forget or
try to chicken out you can contact me on mail at tinco dot nl.

~~~
ianferrel
No no no. No fair kicking the can down the road. :)

I have to decide how I feel about this _now_ , and how I feel about it now is
"well, my chance of a payoff just got more uncertain".

The longer we wait, the less uncertainty there is.

If you think I should be happy about the news, then _you should want to take
the risk right now_ not in a few months after whatever new information comes
out.

~~~
tinco
In my head the big uncertainty is how long the claims procedure is going to
take, and how long the determining of the final CR plan is going to take. The
estimates seem very optimistic to me, so I totally understand your hesitance
in feeling good about this development. But I can't buy your claim if I don't
know what is needed to transfer the claim.

~~~
ianferrel
I understand.

I think I made my point. It looked like I was on track to get ~$400 sometime
fairly soon. _Now_ I maybe get a bunch more, but possibly further years down
the line, and I have to file more paperwork and keep thinking about it and all
that nonsense. That's not an update I'm happy with, even though the nominal
claim I have is larger.

I'd rather just have the $400! And so would you.

Cheers.

------
ruxmtl
I followed the instructions leading to
[https://archive.org/details/MtGox2014Leak](https://archive.org/details/MtGox2014Leak)
but the mtgox_balances file when unzipped is an exe file.... where is the real
file?

------
virtuexru
Great news for people who were affected by the whole Mt. Gox incident.

It took a very long time but it's nice to see that there will be people
getting their Bitcoins back. I'd assumed most people had given up hope or were
at best thinking they would get the original fiat value.

Bravo to the trustee and those involved.

~~~
garmaine
The trustee deserves no thanks. He has actively fought against this for years
while drawing down a hefty fee for his office. This action was forced by the
court.

~~~
h1d
If you hadn't realized, it was the trustee who held the BTC all these years
despite the bankruptcy law saying all assets need to be liquidated for
distribution which could've happened years ago at 10th of the price but no one
seem to appreciate that part but complain on every move he makes.

Besides he has a lot of liabilities to cover going the unprecedented route
that is cryptocurrency civil rehabilitation case, can't just blame him for not
giving us BTC back sooner.

~~~
garmaine
I would have been fine with liquidation and distribution years ago. That would
have been financially better than the plan prior to civil rehabilitation.

------
Findeton
I have no idea how much I had there when this happened, is there any way I can
know?

~~~
ta1234567890
At least until a few months ago (haven't checked lately), on mtgox.com you
could log in with your original credentials and check your balance to make a
claim. Not sure how that's going to be handled now.

~~~
Findeton
I don't see anywhere to login really.

~~~
massaman_yams
instructions:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17377474](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17377474)

------
latchkey
The creditors group:
[https://www.mtgoxlegal.com/](https://www.mtgoxlegal.com/)

------
oron
so I got this line ... what does it mean ? (I vaguely remember having about 2
BTC there ... ) 1384381780866513,"2013-11-13
22:29:40",716300,94b5ad4c-2a91-4e16-bb00-7c95a13a522b,456130f6a84dff2ee89fcb3d9a21c64a,NJP,sell,USD,1.99,875.6199,99.665,87268.639,5.25372,99.665,523.612,0,0,IL,02

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shalomhomes
"This is good news."

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Siecje
I thought the FBI seized the BTC and auctioned it all off?

~~~
Obi_Juan_Kenobi
The Japanese government is responsible for this Japanese company. The FBI has
little involvement.

You're likely thinking of the Silk Road.

------
deltateam
yay cheap bitcoin

this is the largest and last Sword of Damocles hanging over bitcoin for now

~~~
rblatz
You mean besides the whole tether issue?

~~~
yborg
And Nakamoto's coins?

~~~
Tepix
Those coins are his. Without him there would be no bitcoin.

