
Ireland to Phase Out Tax Advantage Used by Technology Firms - radley
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/business/international/ireland-to-phase-out-tax-advantage-used-by-technology-firms.html
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adaml_623
I'm glad. This will encourage those slacker big firms to work harder to make
money. They will stop spongeing off the education system and infrastructure
paid for by the full tax paying companies and individuals.

(N.B. I'm ironically copying the language used to describe people who are
might or might not be working but still depend on government programs for
food, housing, etc)

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joshdance
Economists have something to say about the effects of taxes, and it usually
isn't 'work harder to make money' \-
[http://www.economics21.org/commentary/tax-increases-and-
beha...](http://www.economics21.org/commentary/tax-increases-and-behavioral-
responses)

I have two friends from Ireland who work at a tech company who recently opened
an office there. They love the work and say that it is easy for them and their
friends to get jobs because of all the companies coming there. My company is
thinking about opening a European office, and Ireland is under consideration.
This move might slow or stop companies from coming to Ireland.

~~~
ryanjshaw
The companies in question are only there because the Irish government
effectively legalised a form of tax evasion. These companies are not paying
their fair dues, and their employees are also indirectly profiting from it.
Can't say I feel sorry for your friends - their free ride is over and they'll
have to join the global job market on a more equal footing with the rest of us
who pay our fair share of taxes.

~~~
thrill
The is no such thing as _legalized_ tax evasion, nor fair share. There is
compliance with tax laws or noncompliance.

~~~
Nursie
Of course there's such a thing as a fair share - what society thinks you and
others in y9ur situation should pay to take part.

It's not a hard number but perceptions of fairness are certainly important in
how democratic countries formulate tax law.

~~~
vixin
There is no such thing as society. There are individuals who have views which
may or may not be properly or partially informed. So whose view shall we take
on fairness? Whatever let's stop talking about 'what society thinks'.

~~~
Nursie
OK, let's redefine 'society thinks' as - "The prevailing opinion of the voting
public in a democratic nation, whom the nation is allegedly run by and for."

Perhaps you'd prefer to use the term 'electorate'.

Regardless, the meaning was clear and your objection rather ridiculous.

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SG-
How does the "double Irish" tax system compare to Asian countries that are
basically starting to dominate the world again? How much tax does Samsung pay
in South Korea as well as Chinese companies based in China?

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chaostheory
Would this affect the number of future offices in Ireland and negatively
affect employment long term?

~~~
steffan
Dublin does have a pool of talent from the existing companies based there, so
any effects will be trailing; they won't show up immediately.

My understanding is that a number of Europeans are not all that interested in
relocating to Dublin. In the medium term, if the tax advantages are nullified,
I think more international offices will end up opening in London or on the
continent because it's easier to attract talent.

I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up hurting tech development in Ireland in
the long term.

~~~
patrickk
> I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up hurting tech development in Ireland
> in the long term.

I'm not sure there is much tech development to hurt.

"The talent pool here is much smaller than that of Silicon Valley. The single
most important aspect of Silicon Valley is that it’s where many great people
choose to live. Stripe’s employees come from Honduras, Kenya, India, Sweden,
Canada, Austria, and more—but they’ve all chosen to live in Silicon Valley.
Because Ireland has fewer of these immigrants, Irish start-ups are forced to
either hire from a much more limited group, or to try to convince people to
move here. (A third option is to have a geographically distributed team from
the start; this route is also quite tough.)"

source: (scroll down)
[http://patrickcollison.com/](http://patrickcollison.com/)

~~~
davidw
Anywhere is going to come across as inferior to Silicon Valley from that point
of view, but that doesn't mean there isn't some tech development there to
hurt.

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lettergram
I don't really understand why this is an issue.. So the major countries in the
EU are upset that companies don't want to operate out of a high tax zone, so
they go to countries with lesser tax. Rather than lowering taxes, they "twist
the arm" of countries who need the (all-be-it less) tax revenue the most.

Seems to me that countries such as France, U.K., etc. are basically acting as
robber barons.

~~~
patrickk
The issue isn't about lower tax rates, or moving to lower tax jurisdictions -
these major companies don't pay anywhere near the relatively low Irish
corporate tax rate of 12.5%.

It's about closing tax loopholes, which are separate from the tax rate. For
example, Google paid just 2.4% tax a few years back, here's an excellent older
article from Bloomberg on the subject:

[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-
sho...](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-
how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html)

Corporations sitting on multi-billion dollar cash piles, while many western
governments are struggling with deficits isn't sustainable, so plugging these
loopholes is likely to continue.

~~~
lettergram
Actually, the governments are struggling with deficits because they spend more
than they make.

I'm not claiming companies shouldn't pay the proper tax, but that 2.4% tax
also includes donations, employing people (which also provide tax) and what
not which they can write off.

What really needs to happen, is that governments stop spending more than they
make. Sure they can increase taxes, but they will also try to increase
spending (defeating the purpose).

~~~
ewoodrich
>What really needs to happen, is that governments stop spending more than they
make

And closing loopholes to increase revenue is one way to accomplish that. You
can't state with certainty that governments will necessarily increase spending
proportionally -- just look at "austerity" measures.

~~~
nitrogen
Has anyone provided numbers on the percentage of deficits that would be
covered by closing loopholes, and the following effects on the global economy?

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ceph_
tl;dr: The loophole won't be phased out for companies that are already
exploiting it till 2020

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davidw
Aren't these technology firms "above the law", though?

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8437030](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8437030)

