

Warby Parker (or, Finding Broken Systems That Are Full of Money) - yoshizar
http://www.thinkhard-ly.com/1/post/2011/11/warby-parker.html

======
binarysolo
Reads a bit too much like ad copy for my tastes. Or rather I read it with the
intent to understand more about the content in the parentheses, not Warby
Parker. :)

That being said they are situated in a vertical that has efficiency players
(Zenni Optical, Coastal Contacts) but haven't mastered the design/marketing/CS
game yet. Going Zappos-style is their entrenchment mechanism, as well as the
in-house designers.

~~~
chaostheory
I agree. One thing that isn't mentioned is that all of Warbly Parker's frames
are plastic, as opposed to the titanium (and other) alloys that you find in
the brick and mortar stores. Moreover I just don't see enough variety of
styles at Warbly Parker.

The article just feels like submarine PR that's disconnected from reality.
There are better online glasses stores.

~~~
count
They don't sell a single pair of wire frames, just the thick plastic 'hipster'
style that's currently in fashion. No wonder they're only $95...

------
simonsarris
Huh that's funny. I just ordered 5 pairs from them to try on, they came
yesterday. (<http://imgur.com/a/ZRTKi> if you're interested in offering an
opinion)

I'm really impressed with the build of them. They feel a lot better than my
zenni optical pair (which were only 30 dollars, not 95). Hopefully the lens
quality is better too (mostly anti-glare I'm concerned about), but I'll have
to wait and see.

Also, if you missed their april fools site, it is extremely adorable and well
done: <http://www.warbybarker.com/>

Every pair of glasses has a dog modeling it, ie:
<http://www.warbybarker.com/sunwear/aldous/>

~~~
Domenic_S
D without a doubt.

~~~
matthewdanger
Second this, D's compliment the shape of your face very well. Try and stay
away from B, the square sides accentuate your nose a bit too much (even though
you do have a lovely nose!)

C and E are very nice choices as well!

------
streptomycin
I've been using Zenni Optical, which I guess is disrupting the broken system
of Warby Parker by undercutting their prices by yet another factor of 5, just
like Warby Parker did to brick and mortar stores.

~~~
pbreit
How is the product quality? Those are pretty low prices.

I'm not sure it's a great comparison as WP is delivering on several other
levels beyond price. The Zenni buying experience is decidedly inferior.

~~~
dhastings
I've bought three pairs of glasses from Zenni. The arm snapped off of my last
pair. After that I bought two pair. At $30 each shipped, it's still worth it.
The current pair I wear are comfortable and fairly strong (they withstand the
beating my twin daughters give them).

The issue with Zenni (and others where the lenses are produced outside the
country) is they don't have the stringent quality control standards for lenses
you find in the US, Canada and Europe.

If you have a fairly common and simple prescription, go for it. If you need
progressives or bifocals, you should probably avoid buying online.

~~~
blacksmith_tb
I agree, and I generally get a couple of pairs from Zenni whenever I order for
that reason (my toddler and my cat both like to knock the glasses off my face
for a laugh). I haven't noticed that the quality of Zenni's lenses is worse
than, say, Lenscrafters or any of the other "1-hour" shops here in the US. I
like the try before you buy idea of WP, but they really don't have a lot of
options (dig the monocle, though).

------
jmduke
Somewhat unrelated, but I love Warby Parker's 2011 "Annual Report".

Clean, engaging, and aesthetically pleasing.

<http://www.warbyparker.com/annual-report-2011/>

~~~
eragnew
Agreed. It is well-designed.

------
petercooper
I wonder if this is one of those rare instances where the US plays catch up
with an established money making idea (another being text messaging)? Glasses
Direct have been doing the same thing in the UK since 2004 and having
similarly major blow out success. Usually it's the other way around.. the UK
copies the US model ;-)

------
naner
This is a little weird for me. I've got a couple optometrists in the family
who own their own practice. A lot of this article rings completely false. Kind
of makes me wonder, when reading about other "disruptors" what information is
exaggerated or missing.

Still, not a bad idea, especially for people without insurance.

~~~
286c8cb04bda
_> A lot of this article rings completely false._

Such as?

~~~
naner
_At an optical store, designer frames with nice lenses will run you over $500
a pair._

This is false. Designer frames (Gucci, Nike, Kate Spade, Prodesign) retail
around $120-$240. (I think? I'm going from memory here...) Lens pricing varies
based on your prescription and options (transitions, AR, scratch coat, etc).
Single vision wearers can easily get designer glasses w/ integrated anti-
reflective for under $300 retail. At my optician that includes a 2 year
warranty. Also my insurance knocks that down quite a bit. Since Warby only
does single vision lenses, $300 would have been a more appropriate ballpark
than $500. Lens price can jump up quite a bit if your prescription requires
certain materials (e.g. high-index lenses) and it jumps up a lot when you get
into progressives, etc.

Also, I can't remember ever purchasing glasses and not having them adjusted to
my face when they arrive. I guess you can take your Warby glasses into your
regular optometrist and have them adjusted but that feels a little like taking
your Burger King cup to get free refills at McDonalds.

 _you're going to be choosing from the same frames as any person who lives in
your area._

This is so much of a non issue that it is kind of weird to even mention it.

 _This is a market where sales channels are fragmented and undifferentiated.
The product being sold is either the equivalent of the "CVS store brand" or
has the prices inflated two-fold._

I assume he's talking about optical chains here? (Lens Crafters, etc.) Anyone
want to guess what Warby's materials markup is? Cost x 2 seems like a
reasonable guess.

 _Brick-and-mortar stores are expensive to maintain, inevitably adding a lot
to the price of every product, but bring little value to the customer, except
the ability to try on glasses._

I guess he's referring to optical centers that _only_ sell glasses? I don't
recommend going to those places, either.

Anyways... Warby looks good for people with simple prescriptions who don't
have insurance. Really, it is just cheaper designer knock-off frames and low
to medium grade lenses with really good customer service. A good business
model, yes. Earth-shattering value and disruption? No. Most people will
continue to buy at their doc's office.

------
lsc
huh. the biggest problem I have with buying glasses online is the lenses. The
PD (I believe is what it's called; the distance between your pupil and the
bridge of your nose) is super important for the glasses to work very well at
all.

Yeah, you can fuck around with a mirror and a ruler, or once at wallmart the
kid at the counter just looked at me real hard and drew spots on the plastic
filler lens... as far as I can tell, the actual machine to do that
measurement? makes a pretty big difference.

I think the optometrists know this, too; the optometrist is happy to give me
my prescription, but they won't give me the PD numbers. "you usually have it
measured when you get the frames" they say. (I should look if it changes.)

And that's the thing, the difference between pretty good glasses and perfect
glasses is huge for me. Enough that I'm happy to pay five hundred bucks for a
product I can get for fifty online.

That said, my local Cosco has those machines, and as far as I can tell, the
lenses they grind are just fine, and if not 1/10th the cost, at least 1/5th
the cost of the optometrist.

But yeah, until they solve that measurement problem? I don't really see how
this is any different from any of the millions of other online frame/lens
retailers, save for the vertical integration (which is kinda interesting.)

~~~
swah
Does that change as time passes? Can't it be done with a picture of you (and a
scale like a quarter that you could hold between your eyes) ? Anyway, I don't
know why that won't go on the prescription, bothered me too.

------
ambertch
How come not many people are talking about this article in the context of
entrepreneurship? Pretty astute advice for people doing startups.

"1) it fits the classic definition of a disruptive company and 2) is an
innovative company playing in a large market with unsophisticated
competitors."

Of course, everybody who does a startup has to go through the cloning phase.
It's just part of learning how to build a business...

~~~
yoshizar
Thanks!!

------
shanecleveland
As some have mentioned, not a great option if you have insurance. Mine covers
a new pair every two years (plus the appointment you need to get a current
prescription). They may want to make an effort to cater to that segment more,
if it's possible. But it is an innovative approach to a market ripe for the
picking. On that note ... Insurance and medicine – Talk about a broken system
full of money.

~~~
yoshizar
I actually wear both contacts and glasses, and my insurance is enough to cover
the contacts or the glasses, but not both; I end up paying for the glasses out
of pocket. I wrote this post after being really frustrated with the experience
I had at the local optician.

------
pm90
I always get my glasses from Korea (I'm not Korean). I think a large number of
Koreans wear glasses, so I always find a lot of variety.

I bought my current glasses for ~$150 almost 3 years ago and they still look
new. If you are visiting/vacationing, I highly recommend checking them out (I
think the store that I bought them from was 1001 optical or something like
that)

------
SatvikBeri
There are plenty of brick & mortar stores at the $95 price point in my area.
Warby Parker won my business because they had many more styles, better-looking
glasses (IMO), and a really strong guarantee (most other stores had a no
refunds policy).

I had never heard of Zenni Optical until reading this HN thread, which goes to
show you how successful WP's marketing is.

~~~
pavel_lishin
They did mention that glasses in physical shops come in two varieties: cheap
and boring, or stylish and expensive.

And I, too, am surprised at the lack of marketing done by Zenni; I swear by
them now, since I always order the most minimalistic glasses possible - just a
nickel's worth of metal to attach lenses to my face.

~~~
SatvikBeri
Assuming that they have similar manufacturing costs, WP has tons of money for
marketing while Zenni probably has almost none.

------
clarky07
Interesting all of the people who keep saying they've heard of WP but not
Zenni. I'm actually the opposite. I've gotten several pairs from Zenni for <
$10 and have always been very happy with them. This is the first time I've
heard of WP and for me the price is too high for me to consider that
disruptive.

------
johnzimmerman
I heard about Warby Parker about two weeks ago and decided to give them a try.
Whenever I would get frames at a local shop it always felt rushed and I was
never happy with the results in the long run. I really like the idea of the
home try-on and did find a pair I'm very happy with.

------
tryitnow
When I have more time, I'd like to look into just how WB grew so fast. What's
really impressive is the logistical and operations side (the marketing and
publicity are awesome too, but less impressive than coming out of nowhere to
ship so much physical product)

~~~
starpilot
Acetate frames are "in" right now, and Warby Parker's look nice and are
reasonably priced. Places like Zenni Optical are cheaper but you have to wade
through many ugly frames, and they're usually pretty flimsy. WP also offers
antiglare coating standard. There's a lot of decision fatigue in sifting
through the bargain bin that is Zenni Optical, but WP cuts through that by
only offering midrange-premium choices without the sticker shock of an
optician's office, and by focusing on the fashionable niche of acetate frames.

------
keithpeter
Who does the eye tests in the US? In UK eye tests are often done through local
opticians.

Disclaimer: not using specs at present but probably will be soon, I'm having
to hold the books with small print further and further away...

~~~
dangrossman
You can go directly to an optometrist's own office, and they'll usually have a
selection of frames they can sell you, or you can just get the prescription
and take it to another store. Chain stores like Lenscrafters have office space
for an optometrist in the back of each building which they lease to one or
more doctors; they don't work directly _for_ the store, but they work at the
store and the store books appointments with them for its customers.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Note that some optometrist shops really hate giving away the prescription,
since they want you to buy the lenses and frames from them. I'm not sure about
the legality of this, but I've had some tell me over the phone that they
wouldn't release my prescription to me. (I didn't bother fighting them, I just
moved on to the next one.)

~~~
starpilot
That is illegal in the US; the FTC entitles you to a copy of your prescription
[1]. This doesn't include your pupillary distance, but shops will tell you
whether or not they'll give PD as well. Some places I called offered to
measure mine for free as a walk-in, it's pretty quick.

[1] <http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt143.shtm>

~~~
pavel_lishin
PD seems like something that you could measure at home with a pretty high
degree of confidence.

~~~
starpilot
Many people do. I'd still rather trust an optician using a PD meter though.

------
nickpp
Been using framesdirect for a few years now. Very happy. How is this
different?

~~~
swah
They have fewer and better selected frames, IMO. Their website has pretty good
design compared to these, enough that they managed to disconnect from the
"cheap chinese glasses" feeling that the other websites give me - although in
the end it might be the same product.

------
ngokevin
I love WP. I've bought three pairs from them. They have free try-on with free
return shipping. And you get glasses anti-reflective, polycarbonate lenses for
less than a frame alone if you bought them retail.

------
AndrewWarner
Does anyone know how big they are in terms of sales?

I considered interviewing them for Mixergy because I hear they're doing well,
but the only metric I see for their success is valuation.

~~~
modernerd
Gigaom estimates sales at $10m for 2011, based on their annual report claim of
distributing 100,000 frames.

[http://gigaom.com/2012/03/26/at-warby-parker-the-power-of-
br...](http://gigaom.com/2012/03/26/at-warby-parker-the-power-of-branding-is-
easy-to-see/)

<http://www.warbyparker.com/annual-report-2011>

~~~
spitfire
distributed 100,000 frames. So the clicks metric comes to real life?

------
pm90
off topic but: Is there a similar service for lens?

~~~
ceslami
Selling lenses completely breaks their business model and competitive
advantage. If Apple is so good at selling computers, why don't they sell
motherboards? Not to mention the addressable market...

------
tudorw
Anyone know any UK based equivalents ?

~~~
knes
in France we have Jimmy Fairly which is a 100% Copy/paste of Warby Parker.
Even the Branding & naming is similar.

<http://www.jimmyfairly.com/fr/>

~~~
cdrxndr
Holy shit ... pricing is even 95 euros.

Any background on this - are they part of a group that specializes in copying
success in other markets (e.g., Rocket Internet), or is it an independent
startup?

~~~
ccozan
Seems not: <http://www.rudebaguette.com/2012/02/16/jimmy/> They asked via an
email, got no response, so they build it.

