

How can you program if you're blind? - bad_alloc
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/118984/how-can-you-program-if-youre-blind

======
zxoq
None of the answers were about the questions I had about how to program when
you're blind. While the tools they use are interesting. I'm more concerned
with how you would browse the code.

Say you wanted to find a method, how do you scroll in a large file to locate
it? I guess deft use of find & go to definition helps out here.

How do you locate a line of code in a large function? Do you have to listen
for the screen reader to read the contents of an entire screen's worth of
code? Or do you rely on previous knowledge of the code and remember where it
was?

How do you deal with debugging / fixing errors. I imagine the screen reader
trying to parse the output of a template error being a nightmare.

~~~
saqibs
This is certainly one of the harder aspects of programming blind -
particularly tackling a large, unfamiliar, codebase. In the case of a new
project, I build up a mental map of how the program works - and memorise the
conceptual organisation. With an existing codebase go-to-definition is
invaluable, and stepping through in a debugger is just as useful for a blind
person as for anyone - you get to see the lines in the order of execution.

This does influence my personal coding style - I always have the entry point
at the top, which makes use of meaningful named methods - so it looks like the
table of contents of a book. Next come the second level methods - and so
forth, until the small auxiliary methods are way at the bottom. This lets me
read it top-to-bottom, like a story. Much of this is just good coding practice
- but, for example, I find it really frustrating to read code where functions
must be defined before they are used - this results in details first, outline
last - which makes it hard to build up that mental model (remember, I'm
listening to the code line by line - no spinning the mousewheel).

Finally, I'm going to use this comment to express my dislike for underlines
(yes, I'm looking at you, Ruby). Every underline adds three syllables to my
audio stream - whereas screen readers read cammalCaseCode as separate words.

Feel to ping me @SaqibS on Twitter.

~~~
mmagin
It seems unfortunate that you can't configure screen readers to say "_" as
"under" or some such thing. Also, I think it would be very useful if
punctuation was pronounced in a different voice or tone.

------
yuchi
I was developing a Liferay portal for a client which needed (in my idea)
complete accessibility. I used my iPad to move in the page and was a big
experience, most of my initial design was not tested over visual appearance
but semantic accessibility.

If you own an iOS device do activate VoiceOver and try to surf YOUR
applications (and more important, your WEB applications). Even better, let
someone else do it for you.

You'll discover how hard and difficult can be to READ a page not designed to
be read but scanned with eyes.

Please, do it. Blind people have the same right to access your content and
features.

~~~
tosseraccount
They have "a right to access your content"? Is there a law specifying this?
What are the penalties for breaking the law?

~~~
azelfrath
I see what you're getting at, but I think you're being a bit douchey about it.

Of course blind people do not have a "right" to access his content. Neither
does anyone else. There is no law anywhere that says "X person or group has an
inalienable right to view Google". That doesn't mean we shouldn't be
considerate of disabilities.

ADD: He says blind people have "the same right" and not "a right", the
implication here being that they have "the same right" as any sighted person.

~~~
jarek
Not a reply to azelfrath, sorry. chadmalik, if by chance you see this, your
posts have been getting auto-killed since the "Why vertical farms are a crock"
discussion.

For those without showdead on, here's the comment, which I thought was worth
reprinting:

"I'd like to add another way of thinking of it. Several years ago I was part
of a group working on a project that was composed of people from various
companies. One of the attendees was blind. It became clear VERY quickly that
our blind friend was light years above everyone else technically and in terms
of thinking about process. He'd sit there, listen to people go back and forth
on this or that issue, then come in with an incredibly intelligent and
appropriate solution, time after time. He was using an audio browser to go
over the project materials when we weren't working. If you don't make your
services accessible to the blind, YOU might be the one missing the benefit of
this type of person's input."

------
dugmartin
I was part of the team that rebuilt Narrator (the built in screen reader for
Windows) for Vista. A few days after we had a minimal version running I tried
to use it with Visual Studio to make a small change with the monitor turned
off. For me it was next to impossible.

~~~
cannona
Don't feel too bad. I'm an experienced screen reader user, and even I find it
almost impossible to do anything with narrator. Well, to be honest, I've only
tried the one from XP. Hopefully the newer versions are better.

------
kaushiks
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._V._Raman> <http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/>

------
varikin
I have a coworker who is blind that gave a presentation a couple months ago
about creating accessible websites. This isn't really about how to code;
instead it is more about how to make websites accessible. He has a couple
demos of using JAWS.

[http://blog.nerdery.com/2012/01/developing-accessible-
websit...](http://blog.nerdery.com/2012/01/developing-accessible-websites-
league-of-front-end-developers/)

Also, I recognize the irony of a video presentation about browsing the web
blind.

------
ars
Does anyone know a service that will review your website for accessibility?

I don't have a budget to pay them, but I'd be willing to put in reasonable
recommendations.

I do already use alt attributes and label tags on everything.

~~~
cannona
Ping me on Twitter and I can take a quick look. @cannona

~~~
ars
The site is not public yet, but I'll save your message for when it is.

------
MartinCron
I'm reminded of an interesting story from a great podcast (99% invisible)
about a blind architect.

[http://podbean.99percentinvisible.org/2010/11/19/99-invisibl...](http://podbean.99percentinvisible.org/2010/11/19/99-invisible-10-99-sound-
and-feel/)

------
DillonHess
Just this morning my little brother pocked me in the eye, and my first thought
was about how I wouldn't be able to program any more if he pocked it all the
way out... Glad to know that there is still a way for blind people who have
the passion and work ethic to continue coding

~~~
neurostimulant
Me too. I used to think that being blind is a death sentence for programmer
career.

------
chewxy
Interesting. This post has inspired me to actually improve the usability of my
sites. Anyone have any good guides? Strangers for Dinner and edgeyo are pretty
much text-driven, but what about CSS layout etc? Will screenreaders parse
those?

~~~
cannona
For the most part, CSS is ignored by screen readers. However, it can of course
make a huge difference for people who are browsing your site with screen
magnification or who have color blindness.

------
neurostimulant
I imagine it would be hard for a blind programmer to program using Python,
Coffeescript and other language where white space plays important part. Can
anyone give more insight about this?

~~~
cannona
Python is one of my favorite languages to program in, but the white space
thing was an issue for a while. Fortunately, I found an editor that will work
well with my screen reader and will tell me what level of indenting I'm at, so
it's now just a mild annoyance. However, when browsing on the web or elsewhere
outside my editor, I do find myself occasionally counting spaces if it's not
obvious from the context what indentation level a particular line is at.

~~~
neurostimulant
Can you elaborate on the tools you use? What IDE and screen reader do you use?
Also, what tool do you use to type code with? Braille keyboard? I really
interested to learn about what kind of setup that works best for blind
developer.

------
TomGullen
It's truly amazing people are doing this, very inspirational.

------
k4st
I am curious about what blind programmers consider to be aesthetically
appealing code.

~~~
cannona
As a blind developer, I don't think my opinions on what makes nice code differ
wildly from my coworkers, with the exception of indenting, equal-sign
alignment, and other such white space issues. Those are the sorts of things I
only do because I have to. They rarely provide me any benefit.

------
tferris
Incredible read made all my problems vanish away.

------
astrofinch
Anyone know how people without hands can program?

~~~
fallous
I'd try a chordic keyboard used by toes or foot positions.

------
danso
Here's a reddit thread with that same question, about three years later

[http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ke5ao/how_can_y...](http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ke5ao/how_can_you_program_if_youre_blind/)

