
South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row - gilangh
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33091990?OCID=fbasia&ocid=socialflow_facebook
======
eveningcoffee
This shows how thin is the layer of democracy in the society.

 _" South Korea is a vibrant democracy. It's had free and fair elections since
1987."_

(so it is 28 years, this is only about 5 years more than nations in Eastern
Europe who escaped Soviet Russian dictatorships).

 _" Major-General Park Chung-hee took power in a coup in 1961.

He was a strongman who utilised brutal methods - but he also dictated that
industries be created.

Under his direction, the South Korean economic phenomenon was born."_

(this also raises the question why dictators in the north were not able to do
the same)

 _" Koreans know that. And the current president knows that. She should do -
Park Geun-hye is the dictator's daughter. "_

(this makes me throw up a little)

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> (this also raises the question why dictators in the north were not able to
> do the same)

Different strategies. Also, the DPRK made a number of big mistakes which
doomed its economy, and much of its economic output is immediately spent on
bribes.

> This shows how thin is the layer of democracy in the society.

It's not the only "democratic" East Asian country. I'm skeptical of Japan and
Singapore where the same party always wins.

~~~
patio11
_I 'm skeptical of Japan and Singapore where the same party always wins._

Singapore is a de-facto one party state where it is notable when an opposition
party wins _any seats whatsoever_ in the legislature. Three of Japan's last
four prime ministers were from the Democratic Party of Japan, which is _not_
the Liberal Democratic Party, which is the "same party" you're thinking of.
The Japanese government, for all its numerous faults, runs hotly contested
elections on a more-than-regular basis which can, and do, result in "voting
the bums out."

Whether they have "democratic efficacy" is a bit more of an open question --
some observers of Japanese politics might opine that it is a rare, rare
Japanese government where the legislature or prime minister exercise proximate
control of the levers of sociopolitical power.

------
abandonliberty
I was mortified when I heard of 'surprise phone checks': parents have their
child walk them through every single piece of content and app on the phone.

I know someone who found that their 12 year old daughter had found a much
older out-of-state admirer who was going to drive out to pick her up. She had
been sending explicit pictures of herself. She no longer has a smartphone.

As a child, I would not have responded well to this invasion of my privacy.
Perhaps if the electronics are given to them with no expectation, it would not
be as bad. It would also help prepare them for our future totalitarian regime.

PS: Any parents reading this, the app in question was Kik, noted for its
prevalence of pedophiles, but there are certainly alternatives.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger#Controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger#Controversy)

~~~
Lawtonfogle
My kid sister and all her friends use Kik. I've had a blunt conversation with
her about technology in general, but she is probably the only one in her peer
group who has had such a conversation.

That said, the 'controversy' section is an interview with two people. I could
say the same about any app being used by children; if you know how to
manipulate people and children use it, you can find children seeking
validation that will do just about anything for it. Is there any actual reason
that Kik is worse than normal technology?

~~~
abandonliberty
To be fair: two separate interviews with pedophiles, 5 separate news reports
including police warnings, and my personal experience with it.

We're in agreement though - this can happen on any platform, and we
essentially only have anecdotal evidence that it may be worse on Kik, but it's
definitely one of the apps I would check with an at-risk youth. It's easy to
lose track of all the newfangled apps kids are using these days.

Your approach is ideal with a child you can have an open dialog with.

~~~
Lawtonfogle
>It's easy to lose track of all the newfangled apps kids are using these days.

I dare say it is impossible to not lose track.

Even I, far more connected in the IT world than the average adult, often lose
track. The average parent has no hope. And what is the alternative: preventing
your child from using the internet?

As far as checking the apps, that works when the child is being careless; but
many apps offer you ways to delete conversations and hide contacts.

>Your approach is ideal with a child you can have an open dialog with.

It is also quite rare, and when it does happen it is far later than it should
be. Too many parents are willing to give their 9 year old a smartphone but are
too embarrassed to even discuss the most basic sex related topics. Covering
topics like porn, sexting, and predators isn't even a possibility. Even in my
case, I have to discuss it because our parents aren't willing to.

------
Thriptic
I frankly don't understand why people get so worked up about kids and the
internet. I definitely watched plenty of online porn when I was kid. I spent
lots of time on IRC, chat rooms, vent, forums, and in games talking to and
playing with people who were significantly older than me. I had a great time,
at no point was I "in danger", I was able to explore issues and questions I
had in private, and I found the experience to be a great way to learn and
interact with adults on a more equal footing. I think the only time kids can
get into trouble is when they intentionally reveal their identity. As long as
everyone remains anon, I think the internet is a perfectly safe place for kids
on the whole.

~~~
GhotiFish
I absolutely agree, when you and I were growing up on the internet, it was an
obviously safe space because the norm was pseudonyms and anonymity.

 _Now_ it's all about tying everything you say to your full name and current
living address so it can follow you around for the rest of your life as a
permanent record. Kids can do serious harm to their future selves by acting
like the self absorbed little shits that we all once were.

The public view is that staying anonymous is some kind of "protection for
criminals". It's very difficult to explain that it's "protection for your
child". In my view, this pressure to publicly identify is a huge problem
online.

------
junto
The BBC should make look closer to home and grow some teeth and balls and
challenge the horrendous and repugnant direction in which the UK government is
trying to take on privacy, blanket spying on the general public, right to
protest and freedom of speech.

~~~
retube
> the horrendous and repugnant direction in which the UK government is trying
> to take on privacy

Well that's just your opinion. A lot of people would disagree with you.

~~~
themartorana
I'm not sure a lot would...

~~~
zo1
But, but, democracy! And voting! And "representative" government!

Snarky comment aside. I definitely agree with you, and I'm often very
surprised that these sorts of "controversial" topics don't actually get
tested. By tested I mean, put to a referendum. Yes, that means getting the
majority of the voting populace to be _asked_ which side of the fence they're
on for that specific topic/idea/law.

------
Quppa
South Korea is a good example of how the proliferation of technology doesn't
necessarily entail increased political freedom. They might have great internet
connectivity, but it comes with all sorts of overt censorship - the government
blocks numerous websites, and periodically crack down on 'false rumours'
online. Previously they enforced the infamous 'real name' law aimed at
preventing anonymity on arbitrarily large websites.

~~~
tempodox
Maybe not right away, but the effect is already showing:

 _...learning to control what kinds of media are encountered on the net is now
a part of growing up..._

Don't underestimate the power of youth. The old ways won't continue
unchallenged.

~~~
Quppa
I hope you're right.

On the other hand, the 'power of youth' works both ways - it seems like a non-
negligible percentage of youth in the West favour _more_ censorship, not less
- witness the rise of 'trigger warnings' and 'safe spaces' on university
campuses, for example. Their aims might be quite different to those of a semi-
authoritarian government, but the censorious impulse is the same.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
Trigger warnings aren't censorship, they're a renamed content warning. People
might voluntarily avoid consuming works labelled with warnings in some cases,
but that's it.

Safe spaces are not fundamentally different to ordinary social spaces with
rules. Was the introduction of anti-bullying efforts in schools some alarming
new dawn for censorship?

~~~
dragonwriter
Trigger warnings are fundamentally misguided; actual triggers for people with
a past history of trauma are often not yhe type of things that get trigged
warnings; the things that get trigger warnings are just things that are likely
to be sensitive independent of such history, because "trigger" has been the
subject of appropriation by people who want society to cater to their
political sensitivity week found that mere "offense" want powerful enough.

Some people might be triggered by them, but real triggered are as likely to
be, say, a scent that has become associated with the traumatic event because
it was present at the time. "Trigger warnings" are based on a kind of
intellectual association which had little relation to his actual triggering
works but a lot to do with his run out the mill offense works.

Real triggering can only meaningfully be addressed with sensitivity to actual
individual triggers, and any meaningful eastbound and agree disagree would be
highly lesson-specific. The modern phenomenon of "trigger warnings" and "safe
spaces" if just privileging a certain set of political sensitivities and
aesthetic preferences, not addressing actual safety from trauma triggers.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> Trigger warnings are fundamentally misguided; actual triggers for people
> with a past history of trauma are often not yhe type of things that get
> trigged warnings

It really depends on the person. Some people who've had the misfortune of
experiencing rape definitely do get flashbacks when rape is described to them,
for example. This isn't a hypothetical thing: someone I know had this happen.

> The modern phenomenon of "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces" if just
> privileging a certain set of political sensitivities and aesthetic
> preferences, not addressing actual safety from trauma triggers.

Whether or not trigger warnings help with trauma, they are mostly harmless.
I'd be inclined to err on the side of caution here, given that most of the
people with the biggest problem with trigger warnings tend to be people who
wouldn't need them anyway.

Safe spaces don't just exist to avoid trauma, and the reason they exist isn't
political. They exist to allow people excluded by mainstream spaces to
participate. For example, rape survivors may find it difficult to participate
in spaces where people make "jokes" about rape, for fairly obvious reasons.

------
mechazawa
Is this enforced by the OEM ROM? Won't flashing a custom rom on your phone
bypass it? How do they know the user is within the age group that is required
to install it? If 3rd party apps are supported for this is there an app that
either has a "hidden" disable setting or an app that pretends to have the
functionality but in reality does nothing. Won't the infrastructure for a
product like this be a large target for hackers? Is it enforced by the SIM
card? Will it automatically be disabled when the user becomes old enough not
to have the app installed?

~~~
gambiting
I guess you have to register the age of whoever uses the sim, and the phone
networks won't accept data connections if you haven't got the app
installed(which probably handles logging into their servers or whatever).

------
hippich
It mentions "sites", but how you can know if browsing happens over strongly
encrypted connection? Or part of it is MITM'ing these phones?

------
wumbernang
When I'm paying the bill, its my network and responsibility as a parent so
I'll take whatever measures I need and track what I want. This is partially to
protect my arse from misadventure by proxy and partly to establish healthy use
of the internet.

This is done openly and with agreement only. My eldest disagreed so she
doesn't get a handset paid for.

------
pmontra
How do they know that the phone is used by a teenager? I expect that the SIM
is on one of the parents but I don't know how that usually works in Korea.

~~~
pjc50
It'll be administratively tied to the national ID card system somehow.

------
solve
For parents to conduct surveillance? Only if you define "parent" as the
"government".

~~~
alandarev
I doubt the government needs an app installed to track the traffic.

------
notNow
South Korea is taking the concept of Nanny State to a whole new level!

