
QUIC experiments [pdf] - jsnell
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/93/slides/slides-93-hopsrg-6.pdf
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droopyEyelids
One interesting thing is that we'll need new tools to diagnose QUIC connection
problems.

When you're looking at a range of ports used to open a connection between
layer 7 and, due to the pre-negotiated encryption basically layer 3, netcat,
nmap, and tcpdump aren't as informative as they were before.

I'd love to know how Google has been handling that sort of troubleshooting
internally.

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serialx
There's QUIC support in Wireshark. Use the beta version. :)

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cambyrne
Udp is too broken to use in quic [http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-
opsec-udp-advisory-00](http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-
advisory-00)

~~~
nly
Seems counterproductive. I don't see how UDP is intrinsically more prone to
allowing reflection attacks than TCP if it's used as the foundation for a
well-designed connection-oriented protocol. And indeed, the principles of
packet amplification and session authentication are much better understood
than in days of TCP/IP.

ISPs limiting DoS UDP flows isn't reason to not use UDP for legitimate
purposes. After all, nothing stops DoS botnets from sending junk TCP packets.

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cambyrne
The problem is that today, UDP is a rate limited sewer of attack traffic from
Brazilian home routers and so on. Your legit traffic is guilty by association.
Devs need to know udp is collateral damage in the ddos war

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nly
I would actually put money on most of those UDP rate limits being in place
because of uTP Bittorrent traffic. It's dumb and it needs to stop. Nothing
between two networks on the Internet should be inspecting the transport layer.

And since when has 'guilty by association' been a good reason to condemn
anything?

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cambyrne
It's not a matter of guilt. It is a practical reality of the ddos abuse on the
net. It is massive and breaks network. It is all we can do to keep the net up
at times. Serious.

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valleyhut
Is the net up if we can't fully use it? UDP is an important part of the net.
If we can't use it, then the net is not fully operational.

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bla2
Super cool. Roundtrips are especially expensive on mobile – it'd be
interesting to see their latency improvement numbers broken out by mobile vs
desktop. But the deck is fairly light on how much this helps with latency in
general.

