
Apple blocking ads that follow users around web is 'sabotage', says industry - lladnar
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/18/apple-stopping-ads-follow-you-around-internet-sabotage-advertising-industry-ios-11-and-macos-high-sierra-safari-internet
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torpfactory
Just below the title in the article: "New iOS 11 and macOS High Sierra will
stop ads following Safari users, prompting open letter claiming Apple is
destroying internet’s economic model"

I would love to blow up the ad-revenue economic model of the internet. Sure
some of the services it funds are convenient but the cost is pretty high. Just
a few of these "costs" in my mind:

\- Keeping people in a constantly mentally distracted state with various app
notifications in order to serve them more ads

\- Degredation of political discourse in a race to the rhetorical bottom
because that approach appears to generate the most views and thus ad revenue

\- More efficient sorting of people into tribal camps of group think. All as a
consequence of content which agrees with their worldview because this content
generates more ad revenue.

\- Fundamental lack of control by users of their personal information as
collected by these ad services

I don't know what would replace the ad model, but I'd be happy to find out.

~~~
ianai
Also when looking for information these days I usually only find annoying
"these N things are the best" sites where you have to browse through N+1 pages
of ads. The ad industry has seriously damaged the information content of the
web.

~~~
FTA
I've found the formula for "news" slideshows is N+int(N/5) as ads seem to be
inserted in after every 5 X that are X.

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optimusclimb
Good for Apple.

Marketing in the 2000s/'10s has really turned disgusting. Whereas many moons
ago marketing was just about giving your brand an image, and making people
aware of it - it has now turned into an all out psychological assault.

Additionally, we seem to be seeking out every way possible to bombard each
other with it. Remember when someone figured out that you're stuck standing
near the pump when you purchase gas for your vehicle, so they put tv screens
with sound blaring at us there where we can't escape it? I mean, you're in the
middle of making a reasonable transaction (money, for gas) - but you still
have to be turned into the product for marketers to assault now, just because
you can. In the same vein, I've heard there's a CO based startup working on
bringing similar advertising to ski lifts - another venue where you can't
escape.

We really need to take a stand on this (as Apple is), as the internet is just
one of many spaces where marketing can and will massively infringe on your
privacy. Google Maps seems to track your physical location constantly (so you
can "see where you parked"!) - how long, if not already, until they notice
that I've visited a dry cleaner, or gone to Home Depot, so they can use that
info to continue the onslaught?

~~~
RealGeek
Google requires you to turn on all web, search, app and location history just
to set your home address in maps. Then it continues to siphon all your private
data 24x7 out of every device that Google touches.

~~~
X-Istence
I have location history turned off on Google and I have my home address set in
Google Maps...

~~~
RealGeek
I had my home address set since couple years without turning history on.

This week I wanted to change address, but Google wouldn't let me unless I give
access to all location, web and app activity.

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theonemind
In other news, parasite complains about sabotage by host's immune system.

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dpeterson
Apple seems to be the only tech giant adhering to "do no evil." I've been a
developer for a long time, even though development workflows are typically
more compatible running on Macs, I've resisted going all in working on a Mac.
I also have an Android phone. That is going to change. I trust apple a whole
lot more than Google or Microsoft. My next phone will be an iPhone and luckily
my Mac book pro is already on its way.

~~~
make3
the "no headphone jack" thing seemed pretty evil to me. also, all of the
monopolistic app store practices really aren't awesome.

the new specs for the Mac Book pro are also a joke for the price, and wtf is
that touch bar crap.

also, paying 800-1000$ for a phone is ridiculous

~~~
Spivak
So while Google is invading every single aspect of your private life,
following you on every site you visit, and mining your data for engagement and
advertising, Apple is... charging too much?

\- Also the Google Pixel is $749.

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
> So while Google is invading every single aspect of your private life,
> following you on every site you visit, and mining your data for engagement
> and advertising, Apple is... charging too much?

Yes, of course. These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

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grzm
Discussion on AdWeek article of the same topic 5 days ago (159 comments):

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15250463](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15250463)

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Animats
Many HN users have probably been blocking ads and tracking for years. I'm
barely aware that the Internet has ads.

~~~
ams6110
That's me. I have most of my browser settings turned up to "paranoid" (no
history, no sync, no 3rd party cookies, all cookies purged upon exit, separate
profiles for web and gmail, etc.). I use uBlock Origin, and have a 15,000 line
/etc/hosts file. I only see ads if they are served inline directly from the
site I'm visiting (thankfully that's very few).

~~~
blubb-fish
OMG ... take it easy, buddy - install uBlock Origin and have a nice day ... :D

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morpheos00
I really don't understand why people hate ads so much. They are every where in
life and really don't ruin things. I don't have an adblocker and I find very
little disruption in my browsing. I just ignore the ads. It is interesting to
me sociologically that so many expect Internet content to just be provided for
free like manna. Is it wrong for people (e.g. Newspapers, other content
creators) to make money of their work? A subscription or a hybrid model might
generate better content but it would restrict access.

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Sir_Cmpwn
Beautiful. Thank you, Apple. Let's hope this toxic industry ends in a
miserable death soon.

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wonder_bread
This is almost certainly a pro on the consumer end of things but ultimately
how much of a win is this really? Facebook and Google will still be fine so if
anything this further consolidates the information monopoly. I'm happy Apple
did it, and I don't think the "Six major advertising consortia" are going to
do themselves any favors by coming out guns blazing against them for this, but
the problem is much deeper rooted than this.

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JohnTHaller
On the desktop side, worried sites could just block Safari since it's only
3.87% of users and those users can use other browsers. On the mobile side,
Safari is more popular but also forced on iOS users since all browsers use
Safari underneath. I'd wager Apple is doing this at the app level and not the
renderer level on iOS.

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marchenko
If this is 'sabotage', it's got a thumpin' Beastie Boys beat.

I'm curious to see what develops from Apple's stated intention to keep more
user data on-device and the company's attempts at 'differential privacy', and
if these stances disadvantage Apple against its competitors.

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andy_ppp
Does anyone know if tracking via localStorage still works? Also to be fair if
you interact with the iframe cookies can be set. I just wish it was sticky per
domain.

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valuearb
Internet advertising has always been a race to the bottom. Apple hasn't
changed anything about that, just slightly accelerated it's velocity.

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travmatt
To whomever inside the ad industry that keeps making remarks such as this, I'd
suggest that this is equivalent to free advertising for Apple.

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z2600
I would pay for this as a feature/plug-in for Chrome, although I'd prefer they
just did it (or made it an option).

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m3kw9
Is like pirat s asyi g copy’s are destroying their incomes because they are
getting shut down

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monochromatic
It's stuff like this that keeps me on iPhone instead of defecting to Android.

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bfrog
Wah wah wah.

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xxxdarrenxxx
My phone company offered me free data usage on spotify.

Sounds great right!

Except this is bordering against net neutrality.

You see, like with net neutrality, Apple could offer services in the future to
companies to get a "free pass" on their cute filter. This means people who
want to advertise their innocent little game, have no chance against companies
with a lot of money who can afford to do so.

If you are in favor off this update, but against for example net neutrality,
then you might want to check up again on how well you understand these
concepts, and how they _could_ play out in unfavorable division of power.

tldr; Monopoly is inherently unfavorable, not just theoretically but has
proven so time and time again in many different sectors.

~~~
mikeash
Net neutrality is about ISPs. Apple is giving the end user control over how
their own device behaves here. This is not a violation of net neutrality any
more than me throwing away junk mail is a violation of the neutrality of the
postal service.

~~~
kodablah
> Apple is giving the end user control over how their own device behaves here.

Are they? That's not really their approach to many things. It seems to me they
are making decisions for users. I have nothing of note to say on this specific
change, but we should be careful about where we want "neutrality" applied in
our network go-betweens (be them ISPs, devices, whatever).

~~~
mikeash
It’s an option you can turn off, so, yes, they are.

~~~
kodablah
Surely we can acknowledge that control is not binary? There was no control
that said "don't turn this on by default" or a control that lets me set the
specific parameters of cookie sharing.

The essence of neutrality concerns is the absence of control. Whether an ISP
allows you to turn off the on-by-default traffic shaping or whether a device
lets you turn off the on-by-default cookie restrictions is not the concern.
It's whether these go-betweens make decisions for us, such as cookie sharing
parameters, video downsampling, etc.

~~~
mikeash
The essence of neutrality concerns is the absence of control. Apple gives the
user control over this, and many other aspects of the browsing experience.
So... what's the problem here?

