
Valve’s Newell: Windows 8 “catastrophe” driving Valve to embrace Linux - shawndumas
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/steams-newell-windows-8-catastrophe-driving-valve-to-embrace-linux/
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pfisch
So...Steam is a closed platform as well. We have a game on Steam, and I can
tell you that the sales on the Steam platform are much better than the other
open ones. One of the reasons for this is the big user base, but the closed
nature of the platform is also a large factor.

Kinda seems like the pot calling the kettle black.

~~~
drivebyacct2
It's one thing for an OS to implement a Store, it's another for a third party
application to do so. It's the same thing people say about Gatekeeper and the
AppStore. I think it's too early to get too scared.

That having been said, I don't understand why Steam being a closed platform
makes your users more likely to buy from them. And in that sense, what is an
"open" store? Apt/Yum/etc?

~~~
pfisch
Because there is less competition. Open game stores are flooded with games,
mostly of low quality. It makes it very hard to stand out and you just fall
off the front page really fast. There is too much noise and everything gets
the same billing regardless of quality, unless you hit a top sales spot.
However, top sales spots frequently have less to do with quality and more to
do with appealing to the lowest common denominator.

Just look at the ios app store, the top is generally freemium games or games
that are actually thinly veiled skinner boxes with some nice art. Either that
or casual games that have broad appeal because they are simple games.

On Steam you get top billing for at least 2 weeks after release.

Some open store examples: Desura, Indievania, XBLIG, android, even the mac app
store is pretty open compared to Steam.

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nl
Yes, Steam breaks on Windows 8.

But people shouldn't take that motivation as something that makes what Newell
is saying automatically wrong. He's far from the only person to say Win8 is
going to be a disaster for MS - perhaps it is worth looking at the possibility
he is actually right.

~~~
stephengillie
I don't see anything in the article about Steam breaking on Win8. I haven't
heard that anywhere before your comment.

According to the article, Gabe is concerned with Windows Store and Xbox Live
integration, fearing those would compete too strongly with Steam.

 _Features such as Xbox LIVE integration could make the Windows Store and
Windows 8 a more appealing platform for gamers and developers alike than
Steam._

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bsphil
I don't see the Windows 8 app store as a competitor to Steam though, in the
same way that I don't see the Google Play store as a competitor to Steam.
Steam already has a strong community knit directly into the gaming experience
that I doubt Microsoft will be able to reproduce, if GFWL is any indication.
And there's no way I'd pay a monthly fee like on Xbox Live.

Hell, Origin isn't even that threatening to Steam, and that's a directly
analogous service.

~~~
AJ007
If you've tried to use Games for Windows Live, it makes seppuku seems like an
enjoyable thing to do after dinner.

The user experience of what should have been mission critical Microsoft
products - from Windows Live for Games to Adcenter is horrible. Horrible to a
degree that whoever is responsible for them either never cared or should have
been left managing McDonalds. That's too bad.

Yes, nothing Microsoft has right now comes close to comparing with the Steam
user experience. (EA's Steam copycat also sucks, Gamestop's purchase of
Impulse leaves a lot of judgement questions as well.)

~~~
dspillett
_> If you've tried to use Games for Windows Live, it makes seppuku seems like
an enjoyable thing to do after dinner._

Too right. My first experience of G4WL was GTA-IV. That experience is the
reason I didn't bother reinstalling GTA-IV when I rebuilt my machine not long
afterwards, and why I've not bought any games use/require G4WL since.

My games purchases since have all been through Steam, GoG, and Humble Bundles.
Even games I might otherwise have paid full (or near full) price for have not
been touched if they have G4WL anywhere near them.

Be careful when getting Games through Steam: there are some that still force
you to faf around with G4WL (i.e. they will refuse to run if you don't) rather
than having the option of using Steam's features instead for the same tasks
(syncing of game saves and such).

The experience was irritating enough that when making a game buying decision I
make a concerted effort to make sure I avoid a repeat in future. Compared to
the Steam experience it, well, really didn't compare.

(I have some complaints with Steam too, nothing is perfect, but nothing that
irritates to the point of stopping me using it to purchase and maintain games)

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thenomad
Hmm.

How much work would it take to get Adobe apps working on Linux?

I ask because aside from games, which Mr Newell is clearly all over, Adobe is
one of the main reasons I hear quoted for why people can't switch to Linux.

~~~
tokenizer
Gimp is an alright alternative to Photoshop, as a web developer you could
manage, but I couldn't see any designers making the switch.

I've also noticed that Gimp makes jpgs of lesser quality, smaller, but
noticeably trashier.

~~~
thenomad
Speaking as a visual arts professional, GIMP won't do as a replacement for
Photoshop for me. In addition, there's no replacement for After Effects, and
no equally good alternative (IMO) to Premiere as a current-generation video
editor.

I take it the difficulty of making these apps work in Linux is basically
impossible?

~~~
kevhsu
what about wine? does performance suffer too much?

~~~
thenomad
I've just looked through WineHQ, and my understanding is that even on CS5,
After Effects doesn't work at all, Photoshop is fairly buggy, and Premiere
doesn't work at all.

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Aissen
TLDR: Windows RT lock-down move is what forced Valve to go to Linux.

It was previously discussed here: <http://hackerne.ws/item?id=4253887>

PS: why is hackerne.ws better indexed by Google than news.ycombinator.com ?

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jebblue
If he is sincere then he is brilliant because he realizes the open path.

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ehosca
when closed systems collide, platforms change...

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mattacular
I think Newell has misjudged why Linux hasn't taken off as a personal
computing platform. Sure, the lack of games doesn't help, but that is just the
tip of the iceberg.

~~~
vitno
sure, most of my friends are CS majors, but if they aren't linux users
already, the reason they always cite is the lack of support for games. What
else is there for an end user?

~~~
NoPiece
I use a Mac as my main computer, but keep a PC just for games. I would love to
use Linux on it and not have to pay for Windows. Is there another category of
software that is as exclusive to windows as games? I can get everything else I
need via web apps or OSX.

~~~
MartinCron
There are a lot of windows-only apps in the business world.

~~~
d5tryr
There are also a lot of apple-only apps in the business world.

And how many business apps are being built for windows right now, compared to
the number that are being built of iOS and osX right now?

I guess that the latter has much more activity...

~~~
MartinCron
I think the latter has a lot more visibility, at least.

~~~
NoPiece
I'm sure there are a lot of custom and legacy business apps out there tied to
windows. But thinking of broad categories of business software
(Office/productivity, browser, IDE, graphics editing, accounting, contact
management), there are lots of alternatives that will run on a non-Windows PC.
But looking at games as a category, you don't have comparable options on Mac
or Linux.

