

Design early. Earlier than that. - fredoliveira
http://helloform.com/blog/2010/10/design-early-earlier-than-that/

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ojbyrne
"I’m not going to remember you use a sharded MongoDB infrastructure as your
database"

But you're sure as hell going to remember if the site is down for 11 hours.

~~~
acgourley
Do you think it's a serious blow for a consumer facing site to be down a day?
Enterprise, sure.

~~~
ojbyrne
I do actually, more for the effect on credibility than for anything else. Just
as users have "itchy back buttons," I think they also have "meh, this is the
last straw, I'm going to try out the competition" moments.

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OmarIsmail
Can you cite a case where this has actually transpired? Obviously in the
extreme example where the site is never available I can see it having an
effect. But spotty downtime I've seen actually have the opposite effect -
users become more loyal. On one forum I frequent the "500 errors" are
sometimes looked forward to since they usually signify a big news event is
happening. Reddit and twitter are other sites that don't seem to have been
negatively affected by spotty downtimes. I do think that regularly
(excruciatingly) slow performance can have an impact though - one of the
reasons I left digg with V3.

~~~
ojbyrne
I don't think companies are going to publicize cases of losing customers due
to downtime. But just to turn it around a bit, think of someone coming to a
site for the first page. What's the user experience for them if the site is
down?

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TamDenholm
I agree with the majority of the article. I think that design is very
important and is essential to user experience on your site, however, i dont
think design is more important than engineering like the author states.

You can have a functional site with no design, but you cant have no function
and just a design. I'm not saying you have to choose between the two here,
just saying, engineering is the meat of all websites, without it, you have
nothing.

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powrtoch
Whenever I read a blog post like this, my reaction is "can't we just agree
that both are crucial and have that be our answer?"

Even if one day someone establishes a sound mathematical proof that design is
more important that engineering or vice versa, what will we have gained from
that? Reminds me of the joke about the most important organ in the body...

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swombat
What's the joke?

~~~
metageek
Something like "the one that just failed".

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auxbuss
"I’ll go on a limb and say that design is more important than engineering"

No it isn't. Let me explain.

Design is incredibly important. No doubt about it. But I hire designers by the
week, perhaps by the month. I hire them by the design. I have longterm
relationships with them. They are a core part of the project but they are
interchangeable, if push comes to shove. And I don't need them engaged every
day. I really don't.

Most companies are not Apple. Apple has design at its core because it creates
tangible products. I loath Jobs and all he stands for -- I detest bullies --
but I saw an Air for the first time (years ago) and had to touch it. Shiny.
Hardware design is not software design.

Personally, I don't like the metaphor of "experience" that is currently en
vogue. I have never had an "experience" with a site or application, but I have
used them. They are functional things, designed for purpose, to fulfil an
objective. They are not an orgasm. I wish. They are do not evoke a tangible
emotional response. I have never been moved to tears, even close, by viewing a
webapp. I do not weep at Google's minimalism YMMV. Graphical designs, as
applied to computer application, are not an experience. They really aren't.

I can buy that interface design. And I love to. I love the process, the
passion of the artist, and the attention to detail. But that's all it is. And
I can get it in many places.

But the skill required to build the infrastructure and networks of complexity
that satiates all the requirements of my business plan, and things I have not
thought of yet, and things I don't even know I need yet, now that takes skill
and experience that cannot be defined, let alone hired by the week. That takes
immersion and involvement. That takes a large degree of dedication, foresight,
and yet more dedication. It almost take faith in the belief that unforeseen
obstacle can be overcome. All of them.

Rewinding, design is incredibly important, a central part of any initiative
that's outward facing. But top of the pile it ain't. And it never will be. I
can buy it by the hour. I can buy it off the shelf. I hope I never have to.

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koko775
I quite agree with the suggestion that a startup be founded with a designer.
IMO, founding engineers should ideally be able to wear product and design
hats, but a dedicated designer probably doesn't probably doesn't make sense in
all cases.

As TamDenholm said below (paraphrased), design is important, but no
engineering == no product.

~~~
trustfundbaby
well said ... a designer isn't going to be utilized 24/7 in my mind but the
engineers will.

I'd be curious to find out how a company like 37signals keeps its designers
completely occupied though.

~~~
steveklabnik
They operate in teams of one designer, two developers:
[http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2099-2010-the-year-of-the-
pro...](http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2099-2010-the-year-of-the-products-a-
new-way-of-working)

~~~
trustfundbaby
I understand that, I was just wondering how they find enough stuff for them to
do everyday, I'm a little ignorant about how you would keep a designer
occupied full time working on just one product.

~~~
iaskwhy
Much like programming, design is never finished. I can imagine a designer
working full time on improving the experience of an application like Basecamp.
Even more if the designer works on stuff like SEO, analytics, A/B tests, etc.

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j_baker
" I’ll go on a limb and say that design is more important than engineering or
ops today"

So, a designer thinks design is most important. Oddly enough as an engineer, I
think engineering is most important. Anyone know an ops person who thinks that
ops is most important?

Seriously though, this article has a good point. It's a shame the author
ruined it with the above. Is it really a good idea to start these kinds of
arguments? Trying to convince people your department is better than theirs is
not only childish, it's bad for the whole company.

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abraham
Instead of having a single person working on UX/design everybody should be
thinking about it. While eating your own dog food (you are aren't you?) think
about how many mouse clicks you can remove, about how many settings options
you can remove, etc.

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icegreentea
This is important in more than just startups and software/websites. This is
important is pretty much everything. Designing for human factors should be
incorporated as early as possible in pretty much everything, from software, to
physical user interfaces (with actual toggles and such), to boring old
registration procedures (done with paper!). If you accept the premise that you
should be designing for human factors at some point, then you should be
applying it as early as possible to save you the most money, time, and
generate the largest return. Your minimal viable product should have undergone
some sort of "design" when it leaves the door. It doesn't have to implement
everything, or even most of it. It just has to be ready to grow into something
that does.

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noverloop
I've always wondered how ycombinator handles design. Do they have designers on
site , do teams hire designers to get it right or do they count on the teams
to do it on their own. I'm no good at design and I don't know anybody who's
good at it. I just browse Themeforest and buy one if I need one.

