
US sanctions International Criminal Court officials - echaozh
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/us-icc-sanctions/index.html
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llimos
I'm going to give an unpopular view here because I think we need to look at
actual facts and laws instead of emotions.

Buried right at the bottom of the article: "the US is not a party to the
international tribunal".

Now, you can say they should be. But they're not. So if you look at it from a
purely impartial and dispassionate standpoint, the court shouldn't get any
special treatment - and the US would be entitled to take such actions against
any other foreign group that set itself up and issued threats. It's like me
setting up my own private court and then coming to arrest you.

The fact that most other countries are part of it may make a _moral_ case for
the US to join but not a _legal_ one, which means that, again looking
dispassionately, the US is entitled to do this.

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fulafel
It's not like you setting up your private court at all. It's more like the UN
(the majority of UN member states are also ICC members). It has plenty of
legitimacy.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court)

~~~
colechristensen
To those parties who accepted the treaty, sure. We didn’t.

The highest court in the US is the supreme court and every court any of us can
be subjected to is under it. The ICC has no sovereignty over the US. Our
foreign policy with regards to international law is to support it having
sovereignty over others but not ourselves, the world peace enjoyed for the
past eight decades or so is a direct result of American hegemony and if you
don’t like it start building a military to rival ours.

There is a power imbalance on purpose which results in a little injustice and
a big lack of armed conflict.

~~~
boudin
World peace? Did you ever looked at all the wars that happened since? Many
involving the US army ... And not in a nice way...

If you speak of the western world, the main reason for peace is the
construction of the european union, creating much more cooperation between
countries that had always been fighting each other.

US foreign policy is not driven by peace, freedom or whatever propanganda
created to have people's support but by self-interest. It's the same for any
country.

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tdons
Isn't there also a law on the books in the US that permits 'exfiltration' of a
captured US citizen from The Hague if it were ever to come to that?

~~~
colechristensen
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-
Members'_Prot...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-
Members'_Protection_Act)

prevents cooperation, extradition, etc and authorizes actions to protect
citizens from the court

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trasz
Nothing particularly surprising here. US - probably the only country in recent
history where you get decorated after downing a civilian airliner killing
everyone aboard - protects its war criminals, it makes them more effective.

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biolurker1
One more step towards dystopy.

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082349872349872
On historical sanctions: If france had not been able to bust the british
blockade[1], the US would not have become independent[2] in 1783.

[1] As a naval power, the british were also fond of economic sanctions.

[2] which would not necessarily have been a bad thing: a british North America
would have ended slavery sooner with much less bloodshed.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZzDP-
vQXao&t=3195](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZzDP-vQXao&t=3195)

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mola
Disgusting. This administration is shattering any form of international
cooperation not based on power and submission. This brings humanity back to a
pre WWs mentality.

~~~
tomp
You have it the wrong way round. International cooperation is based on US
power, in particular US nukes, US air and naval superiority, US protection of
Europe and US financing of European defence (NATO), US protection of
international trade routes ...

~~~
mola
Let's say there's a bully, and he just takes and steal stuff. And then there's
a big guy seeing that and telling the bully to fuck off and let the kids play
without fear.

Both are power moves. Do you think they're the same thing though?

Yes, power is good way to bootstrap cooperation based on trust. This is a much
more effective form of cooperation as you waste less energy on paranoia and
watching over your back. You can also base cooperation on submission but then
you have to constantly be at an all out war to protect your regime. Much less
efficient or reasonable.

~~~
082349872349872
As JFK alluded to in his Inaugural Speech, 騎虎難下.

[https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/kennedy.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/kennedy.asp)

> "We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall
> always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom--and to
> remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the
> back of the tiger ended up inside."

[https://www.indiewire.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/07/mad.jpg](https://www.indiewire.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/07/mad.jpg)

Edit:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i4dJaYMebI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i4dJaYMebI)

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auganov
It's pretty normal that any organization trying to unlawfully assert its
jurisdiction over another country will be met with a response. ICC has been
trying to do the same thing to Israel which it also has no jurisdiction over.

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ngcc_hk
If they also investigate china Great Leap Forward, ... up to rent Hong Kong or
they try Russia ... just get everyone then I am all ears. For now, destroy USA
credibility meant more than just touch the last remaining power sort of
helping humanity.

~~~
BoringAsian
They have all committed crimes so prosecuting either one isn't mutually
exclusive. The great leap forward happened within the confines of a nation so
its less clear cut then America invading another nation since thats a much
more clear international interaction. Same with Russia since they had hidden
their actions using "volunteers"

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MattGaiser
The court is ridiculous. It has had 2 convictions in 13 years and has cost
over a billion dollars.

Have the UN set up a trial commission whenever there is need to prosecute
someone internationally.

No need to have it wander around on geopolitically volatile fishing
expeditions when they have nothing to do.

~~~
biolurker1
That's nihilism right there. There should be an international court and if you
want to "judge" it you should have the credentials to divredit their work.
Software developer is not one of them.

~~~
nickff
Who better to pass judgement on a court than its constituents/subjects? If the
people that the court is meant to protect believe the court is illegitimate or
lacks authority, then the court has failed.

~~~
biolurker1
It's subjects are the people of Bosnia, Rwanda etc. You are not from there and
therefore you think it's just a money sink. You can't feel the value. But if
you know how to better it please write an open letter to the court or UN

