

Bye-bye kindle - TweedHeads
http://www.pcworld.com/article/165724/byebye_kindle_ereader_screens_coming_for_netbooks.html

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_pius
Once I found out that my laptop could play mp3s, it was bye-bye iPod!

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jm4
I don't know that this necessarily kills the Kindle and other ebook readers,
but it will definitely require some serious adjustments.

Up to now, ebook readers held an a huge advantage with the e-ink screen and
ergonomics. Ebook readers still have an advantage when it comes to ergonomics,
but I think they'll have a hard time appealing to the average consumer based
on ergonomics alone.

The ergonomics advantage isn't even one that ebook reader manufacturers can
expect to keep. It will be reduced to just about nothing as soon as someone
makes a netbook with a screen that can rotate around and fold down so it can
be used like a tablet.

There must be price cuts. I can't imagine enough people will prefer the
simplicity and ergonomics of a dedicated ebook reader over an equally priced-
and now equally functioning- netbook to sustain a business.

They also need to focus on what they're good at and figure out what inherent
advantages there are in having a dedicated device. Ebook readers need to be as
simple as books, they shouldn't have to boot up, they should be extremely
light, you shouldn't have to worry that some email worm is going to keep you
from reading your books, etc.

In any case, this is only a good thing for consumers. We're likely going to
see cheaper and better ebook readers as well as better netbooks.

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chanux
There was more geeky link to the same story on HN -
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=630237>

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jmatt
Wouldn't Amazon just come out with a reader that worked on these new netbooks?

They already have an iPhone app... So I don't think it's too big of a leap to
think they may extend to other markets as demand rises.

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jakewolf
I have a kindle 2 and a netbook and love that they are separate. I treat the
kindle as a book/magazine and use it on the subway, in a cafe, in bed etc just
like a book.

I would never do the same with my netbook especially considering how much
larger it is. The kindle 2 is the perfect size for reading and a 10" netbook
is the perfect size for a netbook.

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thristian
Sounds like this is the impressive high-res-black-and-white-or-low-res-colour
display technology of the OLPC laptops, available for other companies to use.
I'm looking forward to it.

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moe
Indeed, I'm very curious to see that, too. Didn't know they could make e-ink
displays suitable for _video playback_ already?

This sounds almost too good to be true.

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kevTheDev
I haven't looked into this for a while - but isn't one of the advantages of
the Kindle the ecosystme that surrounds it - in the same way that the iPod is
not just an mp3 player - i.e. the iTunes ecosystem?

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swombat
I'm not entirely sure about that. There are many books "available" on the
internet, and this one appears to double up as a netbook. That's a pretty
serious advantage over a plain "eReader".

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ianbishop
The part that surprised me was that Amazon hadn't acquired a patent for the
screen technology.

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jemmons
They didn't invent it. They're just licensing it for use in the Kindle.

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jonknee
It's the content stupid.

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ahoyhere
How can a standalone screen technology kill an integrated consumer device with
the world's best infrastructure behind it?

The article clearly states that the product is the screen, _not_ a complete
netbook.

Stuff and nonsense. If anything, Amazon might license the screens.

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stcredzero
Have you ever tried to use something like a reference book on an e-ink device?
There's a reason why Sony Readers didn't have any kind of search. The refresh
is sloooowwwww. A 1 second overhead on each click _on top of normal
processing_ will _kill_ most web apps. For a device that's accessing data
locally, it's murder.

Better interactivity will also give a better online shopping experience on the
device. It will open up lots of other uses.

Damn straight Amazon will license the screens. How about an Amazon branded
netbook that had the Kindle functionality, but also could boot as a netbook?

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ahoyhere
I own the Kindle 1 and Kindle 2. So yes, I have used e-ink devices quite a bit
:)

The screen refresh on the K2 is waay, waaaaay better. Much less painful to
type and use UI elements.

But I have learned not to use ref books on them not because of the slow
UI/search (it's not so bad), but because I require a physical book for memory
"wayfinding," to flip back and forth, to rescan, and remind myself, "hmm it
was about in the last quarter of the book..." or "Where did I read about that
study? I'm thinking... yellow book about yea big... aha, that one", etc. With
a digital reader that always looks the same, and feels the same, you lose
something.

That is where the Kindles (et al) fall down - nothing to do with the screens,
just that the natural UI of books is very good for these things.

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stcredzero
_But I have learned not to use ref books on them not because of the slow
UI/search (it's not so bad), but because I require a physical book for memory
"wayfinding," to flip back and forth_

That's _exactly_ what I'm talking about! If the Kindle 2 had better
interactivity, there could be a highly responsive interface that could give
you the same "wayfinding" feel. (Think of the flick-scroll contacts on the
iPhone.)

Such is _impossible_ on the Kindle.

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blhack
A netbook-type replacement for the kindle isn't going to improve this at all.

What is your point?

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stcredzero
You can't implement a flick-scroll type interface without immediate feedback.
A delay of 1 second or even an large fraction of a second makes this
untenable.

My point is not a Kindle replacement being a netbook. It's about being
_interactive_. 1 second screen refreshes cripple interactivity.

When I use text search to find things in electronic references, I find myself
doing one find, quickly perusing the results, then often doing another refined
search and perusing those results. Adding 1 second to each input is going to
add something like a half-minute to each search session. That's _death_.

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blhack
I think that your confusion here stems from your misunderstanding of the
people who are in the market for the kindle.

They're not using it for _anything_ other than reading books, and most of them
don't want to. You know what demographic represents a large portion of kindle
users?

The elderly.

While we geeks might enjoy envisioning kindle users as the sort of technical
elite that salivate over the kindle's wireless distribution model, or its
e-ink screen, the people actually using the device don't care.

It is a book reader, not a mobile computing platform, I'm not sure how hard I
can drive this point home.

The people who really _are_ geeks (people that use websites like HN), carry
things like netbooks around because they have real keyboards on them. Putting
a real keyboard on the kindle would ruin it.

The refresh time on the kindle's screen (kindle 2) is almost perfect. It is
almost exactly the ammount of time that it takes my eyes to transition to the
top of the page and continue reading.

For me, the experience with the kindle is _better_ than experiences I've had
with dead-tree books.

I (and I suspect the overwhelming majority of kindle users) hope that amazon
never changes it.

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stcredzero
No, this is your misunderstanding. (It comes across as quite insistent,
actually. You're opposing views I don't hold, rather you are projecting them
onto me.)

I'm advocating a reader-type device for _other uses_ like reference. I'm not
talking about a Kindle replacement. I'm _not_ advocating putting a real
keyboard on such a device. A very flat pad with no hinges would be the best,
actually.

You're only talking about the narrow use-case of the Kindle. There are other
use-cases for print media, and these represent _additional markets_.

Kindle refresh time is good for linear reading of entire books. But this is
not the only use case that print media satisfies!

That's about a half-dozen things you misunderstood.

(However, a device with the enhanced interactivity I am talking about would
also be just as usable as a plain old eBook reader.)

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TweedHeads
Exactly the kind of technology that can kill your business overnight.

Now, imagine Apple finally delivering a 10" iPad with dual e-ink and full
color, with their characteristic award winning industrial design we all love.

Just imagine that.

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ryanvm
"Imagine" is right - that is quite a fantasy.

First, that Kindle killer isn't even close to existing.

Second, if you think $400 is steep for a device that has a 1 second refresh
rate and a gray-scale screen, just wait until you see the price tag on 10" of
full-color, touchscreen, iInk.

Third, and the real barrier to entry, Amazon has the bookstore to back it up.
You can make the finest e-book reader in the world, but until you have "magic"
wireless delivery and a limitless library to back it up, it's considerably
more inconvenient to use than the Kindle.

Apple will not crack this space. It will have to be Google or Microsoft.

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stevejohnson
The whole point of the Kindle, at least as I perceive it, is to sell more
books on the Amazon store. Why wouldn't they let a company like Apple provide
yet another interface for their store? If anything, an "iPhone of ebook
readers" would increase sales on Amazon.

The Kindle is not an end in itself. The store's the thing. Kind of opposite
from the iPhone ecosystem, where the store exists to sell the phone.

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stcredzero
Such a device from Apple would have multiple uses. Imagine the 10.1" pad in a
magazine-thin form factor on a coffee table, interfaced to your iMac. You
could also have an advanced remote control for Front Row, a special multi-
touch iPhoto viewer/editor, the same for iMovie, multi-touch oriented apps for
Facebook, and a Twitter widget that could float in from the background.

Done right, a device like this could rule the living room!

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erlanger
Between WinAmp and iTunes, bye-bye iPod!

