
Plastic bag sales in England halved in past year - asplake
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49185007
======
kevingrahl
I‘m as much against (single use) plastics as the next guy but what’s the
alternative here?

Studies have shown multiple times [1], [2] that cotton bags require far more
energy and water to produce than almost everything else and need to be reused
circa 7.100 times for non organic and twenty-thousand times for organic cotton
until they surpass plastic bags.

I have some cotton bags and they are all produced as cheap as possible and I’m
doubting wether they even can be used thousands of times before they
disintegrate or some seams come apart.

In fact LDPE bags have the lowest environmental impact of them all. Unbleached
paper and bipolymer bags come close after that.

The recommendation for end of life is always to reuse them as waste/trash bags
by the way, recycling plastic bags has a larger environmental impact. So best
to use LDPE bags a few times and then reuse as waste bag seems to be the best
option.

[1] -
[https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf)

[2] - [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-
assess...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/life-cycle-assessment-
of-supermarket-carrierbags-a-review-of-the-bags-available-in-2006)

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Perhaps an alternative is the "old way".

bring your own bottle to be filled with milk / wine / oil.

Buy meat from the butcher wrapped in paper.

Buy bread from a baker wrapped in paper.

I remember that all happening as a child

But that was expensive time consuming and frequently unhygienic

~~~
spullara
Your meat from the butcher isn't wrapped in paper?

~~~
wtallis
My local grocery store butcher tends to put meat in a plastic bag, then wrap
that in paper.

~~~
test1235
Same - else meat juices will slowly soak the paper and leak out. My fishmonger
does the same.

------
Waterluvian
The large cloth bags you buy from the grocery store in Ontario are just the
best things ever. They're a dollar each but they last years and years, hold
far greater volume and weight, and are useful for all kinds of other tasks. I
bought ten to help me transport bric a brac when I moved.

It's one of those things where environmentalism doesn't even have to factor in
once you realise how awful the previous technology was.

~~~
kochthesecond
They did a comparison to cloth bags here. you have to use a colored clothbag
about 30.000 times before you break even with a plastic bag. a non colored
cloth bag was about 23.000 uses. Plastic bags are super efficient with regards
to resource consumption, but you must never leave them in nature. There is
also very little to gain from recycling plastic bags, so you would ideally
burn them somewhere close to usage, and use the heat for heating.

~~~
skrause
> _They did a comparison to cloth bags here. you have to use a colored
> clothbag about 30.000 times before you break even with a plastic bag._

That study
([https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf))
compared the resource consumption of:

1\. A plastic bag then reused as a trash bag before discarded.

2\. A reused cotton bag where you then also buy separate plastic bags for the
trash can.

~~~
coryrc
Sounds fair, as I am required to bag my garbage.

~~~
nothrabannosir
As someone else pointed out, the problem with plastic bags wasn’t resource
usage but littering. This study is irrelevant.

------
on_and_off
Good !

Now we need to figure out how to stop packaging everything in dozens of layers
of plastic !

I was amazed when I ordered deodorant from a company that tries to avoid
plastic waste and I received it in an envelope made of several layers of paper
(whereas most companies would have just used bubble wrap)

~~~
amrrs
I guess this is very important and also often overlooked whenever public
policy makers talk about Plastic Ban. Where I live (India), It's only the
Plastic Carry Bags are always targeted but what's forgotten is that almost
everything that we buy - from Biscuit Packages to Shampoo Bottles - everything
is just Plastic at different levels.

~~~
praptak
I believe that the ban on bags isn't about plastic but rather bags themselves.
They are easily carried away by wind, get stuck on trees, suffocate animals,
etc.

------
tomp
The bigger cause for the more recent (accelerated) drop is IMO not the 5p fee,
but the fact that many shops simply stopped offering the thin "single-use"
plastic bags altogether!

Still my praise goes to Whole Foods, the only shop (that I know) that offers
_paper_ bags.

~~~
hannob
> Still my praise goes to Whole Foods, the only shop (that I know) that offers
> paper bags.

It is far from clear that paper bags are any better in their overall impact.

~~~
onion2k
One thing that _is_ very obvious is that they biodegrade. Even if they're
equally bad for the environment in the short term they're not a problem that
will take 1000 years to go away.

~~~
kochthesecond
Paper bags are roughly 250 times worse than a plastic bag. Even worse if you
color it.

~~~
onion2k
I'd ask you to cite something that demonstrates evidence for that claim but
you'll just post a link to a website funded by the plastics industry.

For example - "Paper bags have a much higher global warming potential (GWP)."
([http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html](http://www.allaboutbags.ca/papervplastic.html))
but when you scroll to the bottom of the page you see "Content compiled by the
Canadian Plastics Industry Association.".

Paper bags are not 250 times worse.

~~~
kochthesecond
I was wrong, it was 43 times.

[https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf#page92)
page 93

------
yardstick
Overall, has there been a noticeable change at the landfill level? Also have
there been reductions in plastic bags making their way to waterways, streams,
seas, etc?

I ask this because the inevitable comments arise regarding people now having
to buy rubbish/bin bags instead of reusing shopping bags. So, what is the net
effect of this change on the environment?

~~~
hdfbdtbcdg
I am in favour of banning all single use plastic (and quite a lot of non
single use as well).

But I now do have to buy some bin bags... What do people do to avoid this?

~~~
slacka
I actually used to reuse single use bags to line all of the trash cans in my
house. Now that my town banned free ones, my family has been trained to reuse.
Only now I'm buying disposable trash bags and only using them once.

Fairly sure the overall impact here is worse. Especially since the heavy trash
bags you buy consume much, much more plastic compared to the thin film
freebies I was using before.

I do hate to see trash bags blowing in the road and know they end up in the
rivers and oceans. I guess overall this is still a win, just not for my
household.

~~~
FranOntanaya
I guess trash bags can/could be produced with biodegradation in mind, while
shopping bags may prioritize being able to stay in stock for years and to hold
dyes, etc. It's not necessarily a 1:1 replacement.

------
vmurthy
It is heartening to see the results. I have this one year old article [0] and
an info-graphic which shows what other countries are doing [1]. As usual, the
trouble seems to be in implementation. Speaking from experience here in
Bangalore, plastic bags have decreased in availability but not disappeared :-(

One highlight: Ireland introduced a tax on plastic bags in 2001(!) and usage
dropped 90%.

[0] [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
natio...](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-
nation/bengaluru-still-not-a-plastic-free-city/articleshow/64410546.cms)

[1]
[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/img/64410700/Master.jpg](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/img/64410700/Master.jpg)

~~~
knolan
While Ireland has certainly lead the way in the plastic bag tax we’re still
doing poorly when it comes to waste management. There’s still a culture that
accepts fly tipping in picturesque areas of the countryside, litter is still a
problem and public bins always seem to be full to bursting point and never
emptied.

~~~
vmurthy
> accepts fly tipping... I had to Google the term :-) . For the rest of the
> people reading this: Fly tipping = illegally dump waste.

------
crb
I live in England. My local supermarket no longer has the flimsy plastic bags
at all, only the sturdy plastic "bag-for-life" (they'll replace it for free)
kind.

The flimsy bags were all re-used as kitchen bin liners. The sturdy bags can't
be used for that.

So I'm now having to buy single use plastic bin liners.

~~~
longwave
You might have been doing that, as was I, but a lot of people were not - and
their flimsy bags were ending up as litter. This is what this policy is
designed to prevent.

~~~
gruez
>a lot of people were not

So what were they doing? Not lining their garbage bins? I find that unlikely.
They were most likely buying plastic liners (ie. bags). In that case, the
smart thing to do is to get them to switch to reusing their plastic bags, not
making it harder for people who already reuse plastic bags to get bags.

>and their flimsy bags were ending up as litter

I'm not convinced that any meaningful amount of plastic bags end up as litter.
They're used to transport something, typically to someone's home, where
there's easy access to a garbage bin.

~~~
longwave
They were already buying bin liners to use at home. When bags were seen as
disposable they were often put in public litter bins (where they do not always
stay, in busy areas with full bins) or simply discarded in the open
environment. Anecdotally there seems to be much less of this going on now and
the relatively common sight of Tesco carrier bags (other supermarkets are also
available, but these seemed to be the worst offender) blowing down the street
or caught in trees seems to have largely disappeared from what I have seen
since this policy was introduced. There is still litter of course, but the
most noticeable litter is now food wrappers rather than plastic bags.

------
air7
Other comments have addressed the questionable environmental benefits of
plastic bags over multi-use bags. However in terms of ocean pollution this is
totally missing the mark. This is an unpleasant thing to discuss, but perhaps
times are pressing.

Developed countries, including the UK, have modern waste management meaning
that close to 0% of its waste plastic ends up in the oceans. The only
contributing factor is beach litter. Plastic in the oceans comes from poorer
countries in SE asia where the waste management systems are inadequate and
open air dumpster sites are the norm. [0] In fact, "90% of plastic polluting
our oceans comes from just 10 rivers" [1]

Our efforts should be directed there, financially and politically. It's not an
easy problem since being harsh on poor counties and meddling in their internal
affairs doesn't look good, but imo we have no choice.

An important contributing factor is that the West sends some of its plastic to
be recycled by some of these countries which in turn simply dump some of it
instead and it finds its way to the oceans. We can no longer turn a blind eye
to that. As part of the effort, we must ensure that either these counties
actually do the recycling (perhaps with our aid), or we don't continue to buy
their recycling services.

[0] [https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-
pollution](https://ourworldindata.org/plastic-pollution) [1]
[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-
polluti...](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-
our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers)

~~~
aembleton
Our plastic bags may not have ended up in the ocean. But they were turning up
in canals, trees, parks, etc.

------
alex_young
Who's working on a bunch of low climate impact stores? I'd love to buy things
indexed for climate impact and waste, but I don't think I've ever seen any
options like that.

Side effects like 'no bubble pack' and most things being made down the road
would be amazing advantages I would think.

~~~
kevingrahl
As I‘ve just mentioned in another comment, we have a special store that sells
groceries without packaging, bring your own container and fill it.

Also some supermarkets in Germany work on removing packaging from fruits and
vegetables where it’s not needed, which is nice to see.

Coconuts, water melons, ginger and such get brandings with a laser.

German supermarket giant EDEKA seems to be the leader so far, they have pilot
projects where customers can bring reusable containers for products. [1]

[1] - [https://technology.risiinfo.com/packaging-
technology-137](https://technology.risiinfo.com/packaging-technology-137)

------
alexstageint
The Coop supermarket is replacing single use plastic bags with compostable
ones. This seems the best plan to me.

source:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45612315](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45612315)

------
rthrowayay
This headline is misleading because it refers to single use plastic bags. In
London none of the shops I go to even sell these bags. However, they do sell
multiuse bags which I mostly use similar to how I would use a single use bag.

------
_Microft
Related:

The butcher's shop down the street here allows to bring own boxes to avoid
wrappings and the bakery puts bread and rolls into cloth bags if you provide
them. (Too bad that I have no image of our fancy _Baguette bag_ )

There are even normal supermarkets (not discounters) in Germany now that offer
to sell fresh meat and cheese products into customer provided boxes to avoid
wrapping and garbage. It works by bringing your own clean and sealable
containers and put them on a tray; the person at the counter only handles the
tray and puts things directly into the boxes, and adds a label with the
contents and price for the cashier.

Works well, imo.

~~~
curiousgal
Won't even remotely work in the U.S. where it just adds more liability to the
stores. All it takes is for a customer to bring a contaminated container and
go "The meat you sold me made me sick! I am suing you".

~~~
_Microft
I believe that. Lawsuits, healthcare and guns are most likely the biggest
reasons that make Europeans frown when hearing about the US ;)

------
rad_gruchalski
Such a great news to read in the morning. It’s good to hear this is happening
in the UK.

I personally use a couple of bigger foldable plastic boxes and some cotton
bags for good measure.

The boxes can carry up to 25kg each, easily fit in a car, and I always have
one of them, with some cotton bags, in the car. I had these boxes for 3 years
or so. Haven’t used plastic bags in years!

------
flurdy
For me also the change to "smart shop", i.e. you scan and bag your groceries
as you walk around, had meant the end of plastic bags for me. I now have to
think for a second how many bags I need beforehand, not just grab them on
checkout.

These days I always have a few reusable bags in the boot of my car that I grab
on my way into the shop. The big sturdy rectangular ones that fit snuggly in a
trolley and then straight into the boot of the car. And a more insulated bag
for cold items. On top of a foldable one in my work bag for small items on the
way home if I commuted by train.

I hated the old flimsy but free bags they had in the UK, I did not trust them
enough to reuse. They quickly ripped, could not contain anything runny/liquid,
etc. I am glad they disappeared, both for environmental and personal reasons.

------
phjesusthatguy3
I was surprised by "Shops are _expected_ [my emphasis] to donate the money to
charitable causes - and the charge is estimated to have raised £169 million
since 2015." so I went looking and it looks like the only thing keeping them
from just pocketing the money is a £20,000 fine.[0][1]

[0][https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-42638548](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-
england-42638548)

[1][https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers-
re...](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/carrier-bag-charges-retailers-
responsibilities#how-much-you-can-be-fined)

------
anticensor
Turkey recently went the same way (plastic bags are charged ₺0,25 — ~5¢; ₺0,15
— ~3¢ is tax). Plastic bag use dropped by 75%.

------
iamsb
One of the product idea I had, but no skills or real desire to implement it
was - a key chain which holds 1-3 cloth bags. Biggest behavioral change people
have to do when moving to reusable bags is - remembering to carry. Most people
carry their keys. You can use build a key chain which stores 1-3 bags for such
times.

------
stuaxo
I'm sure more people are reusing bags than before, I am not the best at it,
but have about a 50 percent success rate at remembering to bring one, or just
don't use a bag.

------
ed_blackburn
I'd like to see paper bags available too. If I forget a cotton bag, rather
than buy another bag, the option to purchase a paper bag feels more
ecologically friendly? Am I right?

------
nishnik
In one of the states in India, they banned plastic. But in a few months, the
ban is in-effective. I really think to charge a small price for buying
plastics is a better way than to ban

------
dredmorbius
As a Danish government study citing a "7,100 times" greater environmental
impact of cotton over single-use plastic bags is being cited or referenced
(often indirectly) here, I thought I'd take a glance at its assumptions. They
prove ... interesting.[1]

TL:DR; Cotton, particularly organic, is most heavily penalised for water
consumption, though net carbon emissions consider. The study entirely ignores
litter and acquatic impacts, and limits consideration to 100 year impacts on
Denmark specifically. It is a fascinating case of very carefully delineated
boundaries of consideration at odds with an inclusive long-term environmental
assessment, and is absolutely not reflected in popular articles linked. You
can paint a very good picture of a thing if you hide its worst features.

I'm commenting as I read through the report, conclusions emerge as I do so
(most are in a reply to this comment).

"The effects of littering were considered negligible for Denmark and not
considered."

That is, one of the biggest concerns of plastics. and the environment -- long-
term residency if tossed, especially in waterways or the ocean, _simply isn 't
addressed._

"The environmental assessment of each carrier bag was carried out taking into
consideration different end-of-life options: incineration (EOL1), recycling
(EOL2), and reuse as waste bin bag (EOL3) before being incinerated."

That is, landfill disposal or composting are not considered. Cotton bags can
be composted, if slowly.

"The environmental assessment was carried out for a range of recommended
environmental impacts (European Commission, 2010): climate change, ozone
depletion, human toxicity cancer and non-cancer effects, photochemical ozone
formation, ionizing radiation, particulate matter, terrestrial acidification,
terrestrial eutrophication, marine eutrophication, freshwater eutrophication,
ecosystem toxicity, resource depletion, fossil and abiotic, and depletion of
water resource."

A long list, but again notably lacking long-term environmental residence and
impacts of items bypassing disposal processing.

Looking at specific measures and bag types:

 _Organic cotton bags:_

"Reuse for grocery shopping at least 149 times for climate change"

This is well below the 7,000 headline number, and corresponds to three years
of weekly shopping trips, fewer if used multiple times weekly.

"at least 20,000 times considering all indicators; reuse as waste bin bag if
possible, otherwise incinerate."

Interesting, though I'm dying to find out what the least favourable indicators
are, and how those might possibly be mitigated.

 _Conventional cotton bags:_

Interesting to see how the _less_ "eco-friendly" option fares...

"Reuse for grocery shopping at least 52 times for climate change"

That's one year of weekly use, a few months if more frequent.

"at least 7100 times considering all indicators"

And that's our headline number. Where does it come from?

A footnote on the next page provides a clue:

 _The highest number is due to the use of water resource, but also to
freshwater and terrestrial eutrophication._

I'm aware from previous research that cotton is famously water-hungry. A chief
reason it's grown in river deltas (Nile, Mississippi).

Choice of methodology is of interest:

"The LCA carried out for this study was conducted according to the
requirements outlined in the International Standards 14040 and 14044 (ISO,
2006a, 2006b). The present Section provides a detailed description of the LCA
methodology utilized for the study: the goal of the LCA, functional unit and
reference flow, the system boundaries, the choices for the modelling approach
for addressing multi-functionality, the modelling tools, data requirements,
impact assessment method, assumptions and limitations."

I'm not familiar with these or alternatives, but at the very least the
methodology isn't fully home-grown. Though it may have been carefully
selected.

"we defined a functional unit that allowed a fair basis for comparison for the
grocery carrier bags"

That is, comparison is standardised to weight and volume capacity.

"Carrying ... an average volume of 22 litres and with an average weight of 12
kilograms.... After use, the carrier bag is collected by the Danish waste
management system."

Knowing that several multi-use alternatives are capable of both greater volume
and mass, by factors of 2-4, I'd be interested to see if this is addressed and
how. I'll note that toting 50kg of groceries may not be for the faint (or
weak) of heart, though there is assistive technology.[2]

From subsequent discussion, the reference unit is a _minimum capacity_ , not a
_scaled reference_. That is, some options (e.g., LDPE simple) are scaled _up_
to meet this. capacity, others (Jute, cotton, composite) with greater capacity
are _not_ scaled down.[3]

"The time horizon of the impacts in this LCA was 100 years."

This raises all kinds of issues, from environmental residency (already
excluded by presuming perfect wastestream recovery) to future value.
discounting / present value analysis. Suffice to say there are a vast number
of bodies buried, literally, in that innocuous sentence.

"Secondary reuse ... was assumed as substituting a waste bin bag."

So all y'all reuse-it-as-a-trash-bag peeps, you're covered. And yes, plastic
beats organic here.

Impact categories are listed in table 5, p. 39. As previusly, omissions are
highly notable.

The assumptions section,3.10, pp. 41ff, deserves close reading. Highlights
only:

"we did not take into consideration customers' behavioural patterns"

That is, this is a highly idealised study. Useful as an engineering reference,
perhaps, but not a full description of the real world. All models are false,
yes. I've serious doubts this one is even useful, particularly as cited in
practice.[4]

"For biopolymer and textile bags, recycling was not considered."

"Recycling of textiles was not taken into account since it mainly occurs
outside the Danish waste management system."

I'll simply note that the environment does not care about this distiction.

On production impacts: "it was not possible to retrieve 'market' processes
from Ecoinvert for all the carrier bags materials assessed"

That is: while cotton production is extremely well understood and ducumented,
chemical synthesis is not. Ignorance is not innocence.

"For organic cotton, we modified the Ecoinvent dataset for conventional cotton
production by subtracting environmental impacts connected to fertilizers and
by lowering the production yield by 30%."

Any intrinsic high-volume inputs to cotton will have a far greater impact on
organic production. Stay tuned.

"We could not find literature data on the production and manufacturing of the
waste bin bag."

Though addressed, an interesting and notable comment re: waste-bagging
substitution.

Tables 10-12 specifically list impact weights, and yes, water consumption is
the most variable factor, from _negative_ water consumption for LDPE
(presumably H2O emissions from incineration) to 70 l/unit consumption for
organic cotton. Net carbon emissions also penalise cotton.

"The environmental impacts connected to the production of the organic cotton
bag (COTorg) were considerably higher than those of the conventional cotton
bag (COT). This is due to the fact that organic cotton production does not
involve the use of synthetic chemicals such as and pesticides, which lowers
the yield of the cultivation."

That is: yield impacts are considered, but not environmental and soil impacts
of fertiliser and pesticide use.

Carbon emissions don't seem to be clearly attributed. I'm not sure what to
make of this.

Table 23 provides a colour-coded overview of impacts, though it omits the
handy acronyms and abbreviations translator you'll need -- that's on p. 21.

Further discussion in follow-up reply.

________________________________

Notes:

1\. Source: Ministry of Environment and Food for Denmark, "Life Cycle
Assessment of grocery carrier bags" (2018)
[https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...](https://www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-73-4.pdf)
(PDF). Mind the TLS cert errors.

2\. The venerable wheeled folding shopping trolley, e.g.,
[https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/1/1/56758-super-deluxe-
swiv...](https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/1/1/56758-super-deluxe-swiveler-
folding-multi-use-cart.html)

3\. "Life Cycle", Table 3. Required reference flow for each carrier bag

4\. See, e.g., Will Dunn, "How Britain fell in love with the tote bag – and
why it’s a dangerous fiction", cited elsewhere in this thread, by which I
found the Danish report.
[https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/environment/2019/07/ho...](https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/environment/2019/07/how-
britain-fell-love-tote-bag-and-why-it-s-dangerous-fiction)

~~~
nmeofthestate
>"The effects of littering were considered negligible for Denmark and not
considered."

>That is, one of the biggest concerns of plastics. and the environment --
long-term residency if tossed, especially in waterways or the ocean, simply
isn't addressed

Maybe the problem here is that the "biggest concern" is not necessarily a
concern worth having. In other words, regardless of what currently animates
environmentalists, the actual effects of plastic bag littering in Denmark are
in fact negligible, as they say.

Where I am, the latest craze is to worry about plastic straws. To listen to
people you would think the sea was thick with the things. I feel like the
crowd latches onto silly things to care about, perhaps as a distraction from
tackling the serious things. It's been amazing to see how fast the concern
with plastic has metastasized in the culture.

~~~
dredmorbius
Eliminating the concern from study scope is hardly the way to prove that
point.

------
pfisch
Too bad like 90% of plastic in the ocean from land based sources comes from
the Yangtze, Indus, Yellow River, Hai River, Nile, Ganges, Pearl River, Amur,
Niger, and the Mekong.

So this basically does nothing at all to address the issues we are after.

~~~
simion314
I see a lot this weird reaction, some action is taken so the number of single
use plastic is reduced in your country and area so your local rivers and
beaches are 90% more clean but people like you can't see this good local thing
because somewhere else this measures were not appalled yet.

I assume you are the type that won't clean his house / room if is full of shit
unless someone else also cleans it first.

~~~
pfisch
I'm just not even sure if this is good at the end of the day.

If it takes less energy to create and use plastic and then properly store it
in a landfill then that is what we should do.

I feel like we get confused about the source of plastic in the oceans and
think that we can help clean it up by switching away from plastic, when the
actual problem is improper disposal of plastic by the 3rd world.

So is it good that we are reducing single use plastic in our country where we
dispose of plastic properly? Because instead we just use a different material
that has a greater contribution to global warming than the plastic did.

~~~
simion314
Not sure in what country you are what I read on the internet most Western
countries have issues with plastic bags floating int he air , bottles in
rivers,side of the roads and forests where tourists hang out.

I agree that collecting all plastic garbage and putting it in a big land fill
is a good solution but encouraging people not to abuse the cheap or free
plastic bugs systems in malls and shops is also a good solution.

About poor countries I think you need to understand that there is no running
water, public garbage collection and other western facilities there, accusing
and not offering some real solution is just disingenuous,

~~~
pfisch
> Not sure in what country you are what I read on the internet most Western
> countries have issues with plastic bags floating int he air , bottles in
> rivers,side of the roads and forests where tourists hang out.

That is really not what the US looks like. There is not plastic trash
everywhere. There is practically a public trash can on every corner here.

All I am saying is I'm not sure the ideas in this article are a solution.

Maybe this policy would be helpful in the countries that are actually the
source of the plastic that is destroying the oceans though.

~~~
andygates
In the UK, it used to be the norm to see a plastic bag tree, all aflutter with
collected trash and generally foul. Since the free bag ban, those have
disappeared.

You may be young and/or wealthy if you don't remember trash everywhere.

