
A Vegan Sued Burger King over Its ‘Impossible Whopper’ - JumpCrisscross
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-11-24/why-vegan-s-impossible-whopper-lawsuit-vs-burger-king-matters
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KoenDG
I'm going to assume that it's true.

And I'm also going to say: If Burger King is forced to get a separate stove(or
whatever it's called in the industrial-sized context they're in) just for that
1 burger, they will cancel that burger.

That's my prediction. Because it's too much of an up-front cost.

I'm very glad that this burger has entered the chain and is getting both the
vegan/vegetarian community, as well as regular meat-eating people, like
myself, in on it.

If people who eat meat start choosing this over a regular burger, it's a win.
If this drives previously non-existing traffic to burger king, all of which
uses this one product, it's a win.

This is about changing the industry at large. About creating big orders and
showing the industry that this is worth investing in. And eventually:
normalizing it.

We can solve the problem of the not-yet-vaporized grease particles later.

I'm not saying we should ignore it. I'm saying it's not a current priority.
But it will be later.

I've tried the burger, and I liked it, I'll definitely pick it again.

~~~
cageface
I agree. I'm as vegan as I can be and still be a digital nomad but this seems
like the lesser of two evils to me. I'd rather see this product stay on the
market and introduce more people to the idea of eating less or even no meat.

I understand why some vegans are put off by the idea of eating something
cooked on the same grill as actual meat but I think we need pragmatism more
than anything right now.

~~~
bscphil
> I understand why some vegans are put off by the idea of eating something
> cooked on the same grill as actual meat

I genuinely have never met a vegan who would be bothered by this, and I know
quite a few. If there were still bits of meat on the grill it could still be
kind of gross if they came off on the burger I guess, but most would have no
problem with it. This strikes me as an extremely rare case, and I don't see
any obvious grounds for a lawsuit.

~~~
cageface
I stopped eating meat long enough ago that I've lost the taste for it and I'm
aware of how dirty factory farms and industrial slaughterhouses are so this
does gross me out a bit. Would it bother you to eat food that was cooked on a
grill that was also used to barbecue dogs? That's how some vegans feel about
this.

But like I said I think getting some meat alternatives in front of the general
public is important enough that I'll live with it.

~~~
ukoki
So you are saying you would go to a restaurant that barbecues dogs, provided
the dogs were barbecued on a different grill?

Surely anyone who thinks meat is _that_ bad would never step foot in a
restaurant that cooks meat in the first place, regardless of grills?

~~~
kalleboo
If you’re surrounded by a culture that eats dog with every meal you might not
have a choice?

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rajekas
I am vegan and in general very aware how mainstream society marginalizes vegan
choices, but this strikes me as both frivolous and damaging to the vegan cause
more broadly.

It's a Burger King for god's sake - what do you expect? If you want the
mainstream to embrace your values you don't want to damage the chances of
increasing acceptance just because the ad copy wasn't a 100% accurate.

~~~
idonotknowwhy
> mainstream society marginalizes vegan choices

Do you encounter this sort of thing outside of the internet? I've certainly
seen online trolls mock vegans, etc but I haven't witnessed it IRL.

At work for example, we always make sure we go to places which accomodate
those on Vegan diets.

> If you want the mainstream to embrace your values you don't want to damage
> the chances of increasing acceptance

Is this what Vegans want though? For the Vegans I know, they don't try to get
us to embrace vegan values, they simply stick to their diets quietly.

~~~
kaikai
You pointed out a way that vegan people are marginalized in your own comment,
when you mentioned needing to seek out places that can accommodate vegan
diets. The fact that many restaurants don’t have menu items suitable for vegan
means that vegan are indeed marginalized, even if you’re kind to you coworkers
and try to compensate for it.

~~~
wooger
They aren't marginalised as people, they're marginalised because the world
does not have to adjust to people's arbitrary diet restrictions.

If I decided that I only wanted to eat blue M&Ms and took offense at getting a
packet with them mixed with the other colours (sorry, cross contaminated), it
would be unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to make blue only packs to
suit me, or to expect shops to start stocking them.

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mensetmanusman
This would be an interesting way for the meat lobby to try to kill the
Impossible Whopper.

If you have to also purchase separate capital equipment to cook the food, then
it will kill the product. (Microwaves have residue just like stove tops).

~~~
mantap
Even the hot dog stand near me (UK) has separate equipment to cook vegetarian
hot dogs. I don't think it's a big deal, that's just one of the obligations of
selling food to the public, to honestly label things.

~~~
mensetmanusman
Surface area real estate cost $, additional air handling HVAC for fumes, etc.
This isn’t just an extra hot dog.

~~~
mantap
Yet restaurants in UK (including burger king) do sell food labeled as
vegetarian or vegan, and UK commercial kitchens are definitely smaller on
average than in the US. So either enforcement is lax or compliance is just not
a big deal.

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tomatotomato37
This seems like something Burger King can be fixed just by mandating a
separate broiler in the franchise agreement, showing off the change, and then
neglecting enforcement until someone complains, at which point Burger King can
blame the franchisee

~~~
sudosysgen
This does raise the question, what is the motivation for these vegans? Is it
eliminating animal suffering, reducing global warming as farming is a major
polluter, or are they actually just disgusted by animal products in general?
As the article hints at, this claim only really makes sense if a sizeable
section of the US is completely opposed to animal by-products independent of
any ethical, moral or scientific component, just by innate disgust of eating
anything that came from an animal. And I do believe the last category to be
very fringe and small, and this would also mean being opposed to a large
number of medical treatments. Personally, I don't think their claim holds any
weight, unintentional cross contamination with beef isn't something the
average vegan would find justifiably outrageous in a restaurant that also
serves beef, and as far as allergies go anyone that has allergies should be
asking around for cross contamination in a restaurant that specializes in what
they are allergic from.

~~~
jka
The case was raised by an individual plaintiff, but in general vegans have a
variety of different reasons not to want to encourage farming of animals.

Some of those include discomfort with eating animals and their byproducts, as
you mention -- for others, it's based on a desire to encourage more
sustainable environmentally-friendly food options.

For some subset of the spectrum mentioned, cross-contamination is an important
issue - and for the rest, it may be acceptable under some circumstances, but
there's no downside to removal of contamination, so they'd likely support it
given the choice.

~~~
senectus1
I visited a strictly vegan Indian restaurant once, there was a huge kerfuffle
that night because some diners had brought a baby in and was spoon feeding the
child baby food from a jar that was not vegan. This wasn't the issue... the
issue was that the spoon was the restaurants spoon. Their religious
convictions deemed that spoon now "violated". They threw the family out and
made them pay for the cutlery as well.

If they'd used their own cutlery there would not have anywhere near as much
animosity.

I see this sort of behavior as irrational. But I dont live these peoples lives
and dont believe what they believe.

I just liked their food :-P

~~~
learc83
Why in the world did the family pay for the spoon? I mean I might have offered
if someone had politely informed me about what I'd done. But I'm certainly not
going to of it's a demand.

~~~
senectus1
their religious convictions stated that they could no longer use the cutlery.
they had to dispose of it.

ie, could never be cleaned enough to be "vegan" again...

bloody bonkers really.

 __Edit, yes it was metal...

~~~
pkaye
I wonder if they were Jain vegetarians. The strictest Jains don't even eat
root vegetables like onions or potatoes.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism)

~~~
efiecho
Or maybe "level 5 vegans", they won't eat anything that casts a shadow.

~~~
n0rbwah
Aren't those called "breatarians"? People living on air and sunlight.

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nkrisc
Expecting vegan orthodoxy in a Burger King is strange. If they're cooked even
in the same room your vegan Impossible Burger almost certainly covered in tiny
grease droplets from the real meat burgers. No vent hood is perfect.

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odyssey7
I remember reading about vegetarians mitigating this very concern years ago
when Burger King put out its first veggie burger.

In 2002, the company already had a response for this situation. "'The Burger
King VeggieBurger is not positioned to be a vegetarian or vegan burger. It was
designed to be a meatless alternative.' These were the words VIP heard when we
called Burger King headquarters in Miami, Florida."

2005: "The VIP tasters sampled the original BK Veggie Burger that was warmed
slightly in the microwave to avoid contamination by the animal products cooked
on the grill."

2002: "Vegetarians who order the BK VEGGIE should specify that they want it
cooked away from the Whoppers. To make certain, they should request it be
microwaved."

Source:
[https://www.vegparadise.com/news15.html](https://www.vegparadise.com/news15.html)

~~~
try_again
I also recalled hearing exactly this. In fact, in my recollection Burger King
had a vegetarian burger option for some time before dropping it due to
complaints of it being prepared on the same grill as the meat patties.
Meanwhile McDonald's also offers vegetarian options which apparently aren't
prepared separately to avoid cross-contamination. Only their options seem to
vary quite a bit by region, so maybe they've just cleverly avoided the
scrutiny that comes with a global marketing offensive like this.

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Mountain_Skies
It's been three decades since I worked at Burger King but I remember the
broiler being a really big piece of machinery upon which the rest of the
kitchen workflow revolved. It might be possible to design something that
segregates different types of patties but there certainly will be retrofit
costs and likely some kitchens where many other fixtures must be relocated or
replaced to accommodate the larger broiler. Which isn't to say they should be
able to advertise a vegan burger if they're going to let it get contaminated
with animal products. It's just not a simple fix, which might lead to Burger
King deciding it's not worth the effort.

~~~
jobigoud
When we buy products at the grocery store we can look at the package and after
the ingredients list it says "this product may contain traces of this or
traces of that", or "this product was made in a factory that also process this
or that".

This is very common for traces of nuts and fish. I imagine all vegetarians
have this routine for products they haven't bought before. Some
vegans/vegetarians care about it a lot, some don't. Both are acceptable
stances in my opinion. It's all about transparency.

We also all know insects were likely crushed while harvesting plants and
cereals we eat, and probably ended up in our food. But you do develop a
certain disgust at the idea that a dead mammal/bird/fish was processed along
with your food, so it makes the food less enjoyable. In this case, you would
likely simply not go to Burger King, just like you wouldn't buy the pre-
processed food that has traces amount of whatever you don't want to sponsor.

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landa
I'm a vegetarian, and there are only two foods that I miss eating: burgers and
sushi. I tried the Impossible Whopper and it was better than I remember the
regular Whopper tasting. Offering it could be a really powerful force in
pushing the food industry away from meat. I think Burger King is helping the
cause enormously by offering it, and I'd be sad if its efforts were blocked by
a frivolous lawsuit.

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TazeTSchnitzel
Do Burger King not have disclaimers for this? I've seen small print before in
the UK about “Apple sticks” (no prizes for guessing what McDonald's product
they compete with) being fried in the same oil as fish.

~~~
alistairSH
The website does today: For guests looking for a meat-free option, a non-
broiler method of preparation is available upon request.

No idea if it was there a few days ago. No idea if it exists on the menu in
stores.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I think I read that on their website in the past, but I'm not sure.

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shirro
In Australia I noticed it was in the promotional material that the patty is
cooked with meat and that there is some other vegetable patty for people who
find this a problem. I guess there are different audiences for the product.
The meat is murder fanatics and the people who are looking for more
sustainable meat alternatives.

~~~
taneq
I was going to ask about this. They already have a veggie burger here which
(to my knowledge) isn't cooked with the meat patties. Why would you cook an
otherwise-meat-free burger with the meat patties?

~~~
gregoryl
IIRC, the veggie paddies are fried.

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imgabe
What are the damages? Are they out money because of this? Did they get sick?

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poulsbohemian
I couldn’t help but notice this on the Burger King website in the page for the
impossible whopper:

“ *For guests looking for a meat-free option, a non-broiler method of
preparation is available upon request.. ”

So looks like that’s their answer.

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Traster
I'm married to a Vegetarian, if we have a BBQ I'll just stick some tinfoil
does the centre and use one side for Veg one side for meat. The little tinfoil
barrier prevents any meat juices spitting onto the vegetables. It doesn't seem
to me like it'd be that difficult to have a small divider and ensure a
1-burger-width space for the impossible burger is retained if necessary. Can
anyone explain why that wouldn't solve the problem cheaply?

~~~
NullPrefix
Do you flip the meat with a separate spatula or use the same one? Just asking.

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poulsbohemian
I'd been thinking about this for several years, but now I'm even more
convinced: somebody will develop an all-vegetarian quick serve restaurant at
national scale soon.

~~~
archagon
Veggie Grill is all-vegan, tastes fantastic, and already has locations in 5
states!

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nobodyandproud
The standard impossible whopper has mayo, so it’s not vegan by default.

I hope this fella loses.

