
‘The Senator Be Embezzling’ - daltonlp
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/mag-prison-smith-213098
======
daltonlp
By contrast:

[https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/08/19/prisoners-
who-...](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/08/19/prisoners-who-fight-
wildfires-in-california-an-insider-s-look)

 _" I forgot I was incarcerated sometimes. The staff treated you like a human,
not a number."_

 _" I’d say it was a way more liberal place, with way less of the prison
politics. At the camp, everyone wasn’t segregated by race, like it was in
prison. And the power dynamics and the violence you see on the prison yard,
the ‘survival of the fittest’ stuff — that was hardly there at all."_

 _" There were enough of the tough guys there that I had thought the same
politics would still hold true, but I learned that fewer total men, plus more
freedom for those men, equals a safer place than an overcrowded yard."_

 _" You’re still counting down the days until you go home; it’s not like you
want to stay there. But fighting fires, man, that is so much safer than being
in prison."_

 _" I saw guys fall off cliffs and get pretty injured, chainsaw injuries,
burns, heat stroke."_

 _" It was so physically demanding — but I have to say, it was an honor, a
privilege, and a gift to be doing it. Every day, we wanted to prove we were
better than the professional firefighters who were there. And it made me
understand how much good I could do and how proud of myself I could be at the
end of the day, which never happened in prison."_

~~~
Joof
I'm not sure if this is contrasting in any way. Just sort of a, prison culture
is so messed up that it's better and safer to be fighting fires.

The quote arguing that they rely on $2/day firefighters from prisons and can't
release them when ordered is somewhat telling.

------
joshstrange
Everyone should read this, I almost wish there was less of an emphasis on his
time in prison and more on after getting out. It obvious that for the vast
majority of people prison makes them worse people than when they went in and
so hearing about the inside is very interesting (to find out why they are the
way they are) but life after prison is the real hell for most. So much so they
welcome getting locked up again.

We really need more funding going to re-entry programs [0] to help convicts
get back on their feet after prison. It should definitely start while in
prison (To the author's point on things like helping them write a business
plan and the like) but finding housing/job/etc is extremely hard for ex-cons
and made even harder when the world outside sometimes looks vastly different
than when they went in and the deck is very much so stacked against them. Not
only that but just like how a muscle you don't exercise will atrophy so will
skills so many don't know how to act outside of prison. It's a sad state we
are in, no doubt, but I do hope we can turn this ship around before it gets
any worse and ruins even more lives.

[0] Full disclosure, I work for an EM and re-entry company and so I'm
obviously bias but one of the reason I took this job is because I DO believe
in it.

~~~
marincounty
I live near San Quentin. I have talked to two guys who were let out after, I
believe seven for one, and the other guy was in over a decade.

They told me how their release went. This was a few years ago, but I doubt
things have change. They both told me they were given a little under $200.

One guy, slightly older, was just looking for a place to sleep. I think he
ended up under a bridge. He didn't mention having and support(family, etc.).

The other guy went to a flea bag motel in San Rafael. They wanted $150/night.
He crossed the bridge and went to Oakland to buy some dope to sell. He figured
he could slowly get into a room by selling dope on the streets. When talking
to him, I had no advice. I did call a shelter I knew of, and they said it was
only for women.

I didn't know either well enough to take in, and my roommates wouldn't
understand any senerio. My point is if I was in my thirties, like the guy who
went back to dealing drugs; I thought, I just might have done the same thing.

The thought of sleeping under a bridge, and then getting harrrased by
authorities for being homeless just seemed like being in prison.

Both guys didn't take parole, and finished their entire sentences. I'm not
sure if I would opt for parole either.

I related to these guys on a lot of ways. I wondered what I would do after
doing time. I am essentially a loner, and the few friends I had died. I'm not
that old, but my best friends just happened to be 20 years older than me. I
would have no one when getting out. No support. Just under $200. Depressing.
We need to build more shelters.

------
mabbo
If prisons were paid based on recidivism rates rather than "keeping a human
alive for X years", I suspect we'd see more humanity in how we treat
prisoners.

~~~
kiba
And the number will get gamed.

~~~
astazangasta
This comment could be attached to any proposed system of accountability based
on a simple metric.

~~~
knowaveragejoe
So what do we do about it?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Shoot people who game the system.

Seriously, there is no solution to the problem of humans abusing systems that
is not GAI-complete. We can't design solutions that strong, but _we ourselves_
are that strong. We have a pretty good solution available, that we don't use
as often as we should: recognize and punish assholes (or, more formally,
people who defect in coordination problems).

~~~
ericflo
What's GAI-complete? I'm assuming you don't mean getaddrinfo and a Google
search doesn't reveal much.

~~~
dllthomas
I assume GAI is "General Artificial Intelligence" \- so that "GAI-complete" is
"at least as hard as producing a general artificial intelligence."

~~~
TeMPOraL
You assume correctly.

------
6stringmerc
> _This is the story of what I learned—about my fellow prisoners, the guards
> and administrators, and the system in which we operated. It is a cautionary
> tale of friendship and betrayal. It is a story of how politics prepared
> me—and didn’t—for prison, and how prison prepared me for life._

This kind of perspective reminds me of how frequently leaders in large
organizations have so many layers of buffer between what line-level employees
do and what they hear on a regular basis, that, in the long run, nobody wins.

------
Jgrubb
The author was also the subject of an episode of This American Life -
[http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/463/m...](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-
archives/episode/463/mortal-vs-venial)

------
parfe
What makes him think he's any better to deserve to be sentenced to the comfort
of his own home than the thousand other felons he's housed with? Because he
violated campaign laws and not drug laws? Or because he had money he shouldn't
have to face actual prison time? Or that he had powerful friends advocating on
his behalf?

Another upstanding citizen who doesn't care about an issue until it personally
affects him. Where was his concern of the expiration date of frozen meet when
he had the power to do something about it? Didn't care much about the animals
in prison then.

~~~
rconti
I agree with the first part of your comment. He seemed to agree with the "You
don't belong here" comment, which I disagree with. Do the crime, do the time.
"What a waste" was a bit more accurate -- a waste to have him in jail, and a
waste to have so many people in jail overall.

That said, your 2nd point is incorrect. He specifically mentioned working to
reform MO prison statutes -- albeit, without consulting corrections officers.

~~~
tsotha
I doubt there are many people entering prison who think they belong there.

~~~
adevine
Perhaps, but the beginning of the article reeks of him thinking he's somehow
"too good" for prison, and that his transgression was just a temporary moral
weakness.

While I'm glad he's bringing attention to the tragedy that is America's
incarceration debacle, it would be nice if it didn't have to take a rich white
guy getting put in jail before people take note that there is maybe a better
approach to dealing with crime.

------
InclinedPlane
Our criminal justice system is barbaric and should be a huge national shame.
Not only is it used to perpetrate injustice against the poor and the
disempowered it twists society with the way it favors retribution and
punishment over forgiveness, rehabilitation, and true justice. It's also
substantially race segregated and a huge source of racially driven animosity
in parts of the population (helping to foment racial divisions and foster the
creation of racially aligned gangs). And all of that is aside from the
corruption issue, which is also deeply corrosive to our culture, society, and
government.

------
l33tbro
This read to me like Stockholm Syndrome more than anything. I've spent time in
a similar environment, and there is a unique bond you form amongst the people
around you. But I think the author takes it a little too far when he starts
projecting his outside experience onto his fellow inmates, and all but
bestowing them with the entrepreneurial instincts of Marc Andreessen.

Yes prison sucks, with prisoners becoming better prisoners. But there are a
lot of genuinely bad people in prison that belong there, and not on the
outside starting companies and exploring there entrepreneurial lust.

This is why it is the criminal justice system, not prisons, that is at crisis
point. Instead of decarceration the author pleads, we need to focus attention
on making sure that less people end up inside in the first place.

~~~
lhc-
So these genuinely bad people, you feel the solution is to lock them up for
life? Whats the threshold to indicate when they should no longer be allowed to
participate in society?

A lot of "bad people" succeed in the outside in politics, banking, venture
capital, and frankly every industry. A lot of "bad people" in prison could
easily be leading much different lives if they were born into different
circumstances. How do you expect these people to become productive members of
society and transition from "bad people" to useful citizens if you deny them
any help or any tools to do so? If your only choice for survival is to sell
drugs, then you're probably going to sell drugs. If there are better options,
most people will take them.

~~~
l33tbro
This is the exact dialogue we need. I was referring to a certain strata of the
incarcerated such as serial rapists and repeat murderers. Thankfully, that's a
very small portion of inmates - so I retract my comment on there being a lot
of them.

Sure, the term "bad people" cannot be quantified and really comes down to
outlook in life, but I truly believe these folks cannot be rehabilitated and
do not belong in our society.

~~~
yarou
Members of the Roman Imperial Legion were known to engage in serial rapes and
murders in the lands they occupied.

There is a calling for this type of skill set, and the exact role is that of a
soldier. As there haven't been many wars in recent years, it's only logical
that you'd find these types in prison.

Relevant to this discussion is Foucalt's concept of "disciplinary
institution". [1]

[1]
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciplinary_institution](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciplinary_institution)

~~~
chillwaves
Would hardly call what a professional soldier does the same as what a
murderer, often a crime of passion, does. Same with rape. I do not need raping
soldiers in any capacity.

~~~
thaumasiotes
All soldiers rape the conquered women. That's what soldiers do.

~~~
noir_lord
That's a shitty generalisation, historically true but far less so amongst
modern professional non-conscripted standing forces.

~~~
thaumasiotes
It's less true among modern standing forces because it's rare for those forces
to be sent anywhere. Not because they've stopped doing it.

------
schappim
Photos of the Postcards That Brought Down him are available here:
[http://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2009/08/25/the-
postc...](http://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2009/08/25/the-postcards-
that-brought-down-a-senator)

------
ChrisArgyle
tl;dr Prisons are designed like their goal is not reform but waste
containment. Also, your sentence doesn't really end after your release due to
housing/job restrictions, societal biases against ex-cons.

A pretty good read but nothing that hasn't been said before. Skip it if you've
seen Orange is the New Black or Vice's "Fixing the System"

~~~
JackFr
Role of prisons is threefold: incapacitation, rehabilitation and punishment.
As they're run today, they're largely only able to accomplish the third.

It's almost reasonable to consider just abandoning prisons and simply return
to corporal and capital punishment.

------
MichaelGG
Why was he in such a prison? Other white collar offenders seem to end up in
much nicer facilities. "Similar to a Holiday Inn" is how I've heard it
described.

~~~
bsder
He pissed off a powerful politician.

------
imperialdrive
Could be the double martini lunch talking, but this is one hell of an intense
read! Politics, what a trip. Thanks for sharing OP

------
hugh4
Prisons are a good idea, but they're done totally wrong. Allowing prisoners to
interact with each other is a terrible idea.

Here's my idea for a prison: each cell is the size of a fairly spartan one-
bedroom apartment. You go in at the start of your sentence, and you leave at
the end. There's a window, maybe a sunlamp, hopefully a treadmill. Food is
dropped through a hole in the wall.

I know what you're thinking: "But solitary confinement baaad!" But we do what
we can to keep the prisoners' minds occupied. They'll have free access to
educational books and videos, hopefully whole educational programs to let them
learn marketable skills. We can let then video-chat with loved ones on the
outside. Probably even give them video-chat access to a limited number of
other prisoners as part of a "peer support" program, although that privilege
would be monitored and revoked if anyone starts misusing it. I'm open to other
ideas too.

A prison like this would be nice and cheap to run because it would require
fewer guards. It would prevent people from coming out of prison with new
criminal skills and contacts. And while it may be less pleasant for hardened
criminals who like hanging out with their criminal buddies, it would certainly
be more pleasant for first-time offenders who don't fit into key prison
demographics like the senator or probably you or I. I'd pick the enriched
solitary confinement over having to socialise with the general prison
population any day, wouldn't you?

~~~
rkevingibson
Not a chance. Human interaction is crucial to rehabilitation - what do you
think the recidivism rates would be like for a person who hasn't had a real
interaction with someone in months or years? The goal should be to make prison
more like the world outside, not less. This sounds more inhumane than the
existing model, and that's saying something.

~~~
MarcusVorenus
Why do criminals need to be treated humanely though? Won't the deterrent
effect of prison be reduced if we go too easy on them?

~~~
nkoren
> Why do criminals need to be treated humanely though?

Because to treat a human being like they are not a human being makes you evil.

> Won't the deterrent effect of prison be reduced if we go too easy on them?

Data says: no. Beyond the simple deterrence of losing one's liberty (which is
significant), the harshness of prison has no real deterrent effect -- but does
serve to acclimate prisoners to violence, coercion, and anti-social behaviour.
What prison does is rehabilitate, or fail to rehabilitate. That is the metric
which matters.

