
Gates to students: Don’t try to be a billionaire, it’s overrated - aaronbrethorst
http://www.geekwire.com/2011/gates-tells-uw-students-billionaire-overrated
======
bfe
Billionaire-scale conspicuous consumption is certainly overrated. But Gates's
own example shows how wonderfully useful and fulfilling it can be to have tens
of billions of dollars to mobilize in a really heroic cause, like working to
eradicate various infectious diseases from the human experience.

Just to get started, as long as we don't have clean water, plenty of food,
proper healthcare, good education, meaningful personal freedom, and a well-
functioning legal system for every human being in the world, cheap carbon-
neutral energy, strong environmental protection and sustainable ecosystem
conservation throughout the world, a cure for cancer, a complete genome and
proteome and extended phenotype encyclopedia for all life on Earth, telescopes
that can image Earthlike planets in other galaxies and the first stars to
ignite in the extremely early Universe, robots crawling around under the
surfaces of Europa and Enceladus and screaming through interstellar space
toward Alpha Centauri and Epsilon Eridani, and human colonies on Mars and the
asteroids and in the clouds of Venus, there will be plenty of interesting and
valuable things to do for someone with tens of billions of dollars to throw at
an ambitious project.

~~~
hugh3
_But Gates's own example shows how wonderfully useful and fulfilling it can be
to have tens of billions of dollars to mobilize in a really heroic cause, like
working to eradicate various infectious diseases from the human experience._

Maybe. But it doesn't particularly make _me_ want to be a billionaire. If the
main satisfaction you get out of having $100 billion dollars is giving it all
away again, I'd rather let someone _else_ make those $100 billion dollars and
give 'em away.

I figure Bill Gates made $100 billion and gave it away so I wouldn't have to.
Thanks Bill!

~~~
ehsanu1
The point of making the billion dollars yourself is having a say in where it
gets spent, not in "giving it all away" indiscriminately. Indeed, someone else
might choose to just keep their billions in the family, for the sake of
obnoxious levels of luxury. I'm sure there are some billionaires exactly like
that.

Anyways, the whole problem with _trying_ to become a billionaire is that it's
really a lottery. Sure, someone determined could probably earn a few million
through effort alone, but becoming a billionaire requires a special mix of
smarts, hard work, and luck. Mostly luck, disproportionately so. You can't
just will yourself to earn billions.

~~~
vladd
> The point of making the billion dollars yourself is having a say in where it
> gets spent

I doubt people that are great at creating value would appreciate making these
kind of decisions once they get to know what's involved.

Just to give an example: an 8 year-old requested $50'000 from Bill and Melinda
Gates foundation to help him survive by contributing to his leukemia
treatment, but Gates turned the request down because they don't contribute to
individual cases (their policy is to fund programs designed to target large
groups of people, i.e. population control in Asia).

I don't imagine great founders or great engineers getting up in the morning
because they dream in having a "point" to say in this kind of decisions. They
love to do what they do best: creating something people want.

~~~
hvs
The Gates Foundation isn't your traditional "take money, give money" charity,
though. It is actually _just_ the kind of charity that you would expect a
successful entrepreneur to create. They require _results_ from the research
that they fund and they require regular status from the research they fund. It
is a very hands-on style that entrepreneurs are good at and other charities,
traditionally, have not.

------
breckinloggins
This was an important thing for me to read. For the past several years I have
been trying hard to deprogram myself of the "richer is better" mindset. Part
of my problem has been the assumption that richer people believe themselves to
be better than those less rich, to the point that someone like Bill Gates
would think less of someone who "only" had a couple million dollars.

I'm slowly weaning myself off of this damaging viewpoint. Something that has
really helped have been TED Talks: it's awesome to see a room full of people -
some of them hugely wealthy and successful - looking with absolute respect and
awe at the presenter on stage talking about (say) the intelligence of crows.

This answer by Gates really helps further cement the idea in my mind that,
yes, having more money is great to a point, but in the end, what have you DONE
with your life? What have you MADE that brings value to the rest of the world?
Those are the kind of things that bring true respect to you, from the rich and
non-rich alike.

~~~
alexhaefner
I find it increasingly bizarre, day by day, that people are so fixated on
money and not value, or meaningfulness.

There's something about the way that money is discussed on HN that I find odd,
but I haven't quite put my finger on it yet. Maybe it's that there can
sometimes feel like a larger emphasis on politics or money than the things
people have actually created... maybe. I'm not sure. I'm still working on
figuring it out. Anyways, cheers to you!

~~~
mattm
> I find it increasingly bizarre, day by day, that people are so fixated on
> money and not value, or meaningfulness.

...or happiness.

I recently read "Stumbling on Happiness" which had an interesting discussion
on the fact that there are several studies that show that pay raises up to
around $45k per year result in an increase in happiness. But after that, an
increases in salary brings only a marginal increase in happiness, if that.

So the question he raised is that if one doesn't receive additional happiness
from earning more than $45k, what is the reason for doing so? Most other human
actions are geared towards happiness. It really got me thinking about the
subject.

~~~
gmac
Yes. I do research on the economics of happiness, and I do lectures/seminars
on it occasionally. In these sessions, I often can't get general agreement
that earning money is just a _means_ to the _end_ of being happy. Some
students will maintain that earning money is the ultimate goal. Which is
frankly weird and a little scary.

I think the point of the $45k/year figure, though, is that you get no extra
happiness from _spending_ more than $45k/year. But being paid more than that
helps 'keep score' in the sense that you know that someone really values your
work -- particularly if you're able to compare with what other people are
being paid.

Edit: I also sometimes wonder if there are differences related to social
safety nets, and particularly health. It seems in the US that you need
$millions to be completely certain that health issues couldn't financially
ruin (or kill) you, so more money provides more security even when you're
already fabulously rich. Whereas in most of Europe, if you're sick, you get
treatment, so if you have a million euros in the bank you basically can't get
any more security from money.

~~~
mattm
Are your lectures online? I would be interested in watching a couple on the
topic.

~~~
gmac
Afraid not. However:

* There's a whirlwind introduction in my TEDx talk (<http://mappin.es/TEDx>), and I've published a survey paper on the topic (<http://personal.lse.ac.uk/mackerro/happiness35000ft.pdf>).

* I'd highly recommend the transcripts of 3 lectures by Richard Layard from 2003 ([http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/events/2003/20030106t1439...](http://www2.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/events/2003/20030106t1439z001.aspx)). They're what got me interested in the area.

------
davidjohnstone
I'm not speaking from experience, but based on what I've read, this makes
perfect sense.

Happiness/life satisfaction doesn't improve with more money. You need enough
money to be comfortable (i.e., a roof over your head and food on the table),
but after that it has no effect.

With $5M you buy an excellent house anywhere, send your kids to the best
schools, drive a very nice car and have plenty of money left over for
traveling the world. $5B will get you more houses, cars and a massive yacht,
but why do you want those things? If you want it to beat your neigbours, then
you'll always be unsatisfied since there'll always be people with more (except
when you get to the level of Gates), but more importantly, people get used to
good things. I have seriously impressive camera equipment. A few years ago I
would have loved to own such high quality gear and would be using it all the
time. But now, most of the time it sits on a shelf in my bedroom. And I
imagine it would be exactly the same if I owned a Ferrari. Or a fleet of them.

And then you have the super-rich people problems, foremost is worrying about
their children. A well-meaning relation telling them that they'll never have
to work a day in their life isn't going to do much for their drive to do
something with their life. And finally, most rich people, whether they're
worth tens or hundreds of millions, don't consider themselves financially
secure, but they think they would be if they increased their wealth by 25%...

~~~
qq66
What $5B gives you isn't more cars, it's the ability to finance anything that
you find meaningful to you (public health for Bill Gates, movies with a
message for Jeff Skoll, other startups for Reid Hoffman).

------
jacques_chester
Ben Elton explained the diminishing marginal utility of wealth in his book
_Stark_ in this fashion:

"A man only has one stomach and one dick".

~~~
nitrogen
At the risk of overextending the idea (and definitely tongue in cheek), most
everyone has _two eyes_ and _four limbs_ \-- more money buys better-looking
TVs and interior design for those eyes, and lots of fun activities for all
those limbs, like really big yachts and private lakes.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I bought a new TV a couple of years ago and was most disapointed to see the
same old garbage spewing out of it.

~~~
simonsarris
Really? The world of film is vast and wonderful. Perhaps you needed new
(different) content more than a new TV:

www.criterion.com

------
taylorbuley
_“I can understand wanting to have a million dollars, it’s freedom, but once
you get beyond that, I have to tell you, it’s the same hamburger."_

The declining marginal utility of money, defined

------
kreek
"Student question. Computer science in education, starting even in elementary
school. Good idea?

Gates. Hmm. I think computer is a great tool, but if by computer science we
mean understanding queing theory and hashing and database indexes, not sure.
But knowing how to write a program, prime numbers by algorithm is very
interesting test of whether I know prime numbers. What’s really necessary?
Geometry? No, probably not. But certainly a level of complex thinking valuable
to be exposed to. Statistics very important. Where computer scientist falls in
hierarchy, I don’t know."

Obviously elementary level students don't need to know queing theory etc.
However, I think a lot games developers might disagree that Geometry is not
really necessary. There's other uses as well I'm developing a web app for
customizing products and I use Geometry every day.

~~~
thomaslangston
I think geometry in elementary school is the idea being dissuaded, as compared
to its prominence in high school today.

------
sayemm
"Many systems in society are basically poorly designed algorithms." - awesome
quote

~~~
jholman
and a cute one:

Student question: Thoughts on health care reform?

Gates: I know a lot more about malaria and hash tables. I like hash tables and
I dislike malaria.

------
Hitchhiker
I think the subtle value lesson he was trying to get across to these kids is
to avoid making money ( i.e. a certain amount of it ) as the goal. Humble,
self-effacing and smart answers.

Oddly enough, I know very few people personally who set out with an exact
locus on their future net-worth. Many, in my and the upcoming generation,
aspire to have meaning over / along with money.

------
dendory
....says the billionaire.

Sorry but it's true.

~~~
mrleinad
Well, if a poor person would say that, you'd think that he's trying to fool
himself to accept his situation.

I think a billionaire knows better about that.

~~~
dendory
He could give me a billion, and then I'll tell you.

------
zobzu
What he says actually is "get 1 million" "you don't need a billion"

Well yeah. 1 million is pretty cool. It means you're free to do whatever you
like.

Cause hey i'd be pretty happy with 1 million. Or half that. Or quarter that.
Or less.

~~~
hugh3
A million bucks isn't much nowadays. Certainly not enough to retire
comfortably in the US (yes yes, I know we've had a recent rash of articles on
how to retire on $9000 a year or whatever, but I don't wanna live in a trailer
park). I reckon you need at least $2 million, preferably $4 million, before
you have enough money to never have to worry about money again.

Still, I like to think that Bill Gates, having been a many-billionaire since
the 1980s, has lost track of what the hell a mere million dollars is worth
nowadays.

~~~
Goladus
I think it's more likely he wasn't worried so much about gotcha-style internet
scrutiny than making a general point about diminishing returns.

------
hansy
A million dollars isn't cool, you know what's cool?

Not a billion dollars.

But yeah I always wondered what the threshold of wealth is when you literally
can do anything you want without any thought to how much.

~~~
pacaro
Without trying to be fatuous, this depends on what "anything you want"
means....

If you want to go to the bar and have a beer, you might already be rich.

If you want to go to Mars, you might never be wealthy.

~~~
robryan
Yeah, there is definitely a limit to how much you can gain which is useful to
spend purely on your own confort and entertainment. When you think of worthy
projects you could contribute funds to though I don't think there is any limit
to the amount of money that would be useful.

~~~
hansy
An excellent point. Money and philanthropy are a deadly combo.

------
rythie
Do people really try to become billionaires? they start companies intending to
become (multi-)millionaires and they do better than expected and become
billionaires.

~~~
scottkduncan
I think some people do set out with the goal in mind of becoming a billionaire
and I don't think these people succeed. Like you said, I think people who do
become billionaires are fixated on a more proximate goal (like starting a
company that serves an important need) and end up exceeding their initial
expectations.

~~~
rythie
You're right, I was working backwards from the life-stories of billionaires
I've read about. There are surely a vast number that wanted to become
billionaires before they were even millionaires and failed.

------
deniszgonjanin
"But would you rather be underpaid or overrated?" - Jay-Z

~~~
getsat
Can't knock the hustle.

------
rdl
I'd rather have $10mm in personal wealth and control of $10b for interesting
investments/research/etc., vs. a personal $100mm.

Even $10b isn't enough to accomplish every large goal, but being able to do
cheap LEO satellite launch (space cannon), real free trade zones
internationally, and robotic space missions to mars, the moon, etc. would be
amazing. Plus anonymous electronic cash, and trusted computing.

------
technogeek00
I would like to somehow find a way to thank Bill Gates for his talk I really
enjoyed it. Though out of everything I would say my favorite line by him today
was: "If you really want to learn something then get a book and read about it.
If you want to learn more about CS read Knuth and actually do the problem sets
after each section."

------
plink
Did Boris Badenov or Tonto transcribe the talk? Me having trouble finding
definite articles therein.

------
keithpeter
"Student question. What advice to someone like me to become someone like you?"

"Gates: I didn’t start out with dream of being super-rich."

Is it the transcription or has Mr Gates interpreted the phrase "someone like
you" in a very narrow way?

~~~
technogeek00
I was there and although the transcription does take some paraphrasing at
points, this is a direct quote. It leaves out that before this the student
said something like: "Before I ask my question I want to tell a little story:
When I was growing up my parents and friends always asked me what I wanted to
be and I would tell them I wanted to be the richest person in the world. Now
you are here speaking to me so if A=B and B=C then A=C. Do you have any advice
so that I can become someone like you"

I assure you the A=B... part is not a random addition by me, she actually said
this but I could not tell what it was based off of.

Really besides a few questions from students that I felt were a little off
topic, Mr. Gate's presentation was really fascinating and I am more than glad
that I was able to attend.

~~~
basugasubaku
I think she is saying if I want to be B, and B is Bill Gates, then I want to
be Bill Gates, therefore the question "how can I become like you, Mr. Gates?"

~~~
technogeek00
That makes a lot of sense, now that I think about it. Thanks

------
jwingy
Maybe it's because I didn't read the transcript of the talk, but it sounded
like someone tried to ask him his opinion of money in politics and about money
being able to buy influence and power, and unfortunately it looked like he
failed to address that. If that's the case, that was a very disappointing
missed opportunity by him I think.

------
daimyoyo
He didn't say it was over rated per se, he said not to start in business with
being a billionaire as your goal. If you create a great product, and a
sustainable company the money will follow. There are few things that are
consistent across the scores of biographies I've read, but that's one. Create
value. The money will follow.

------
Permit
Anyone know if there's a recorded version of the talk I could watch? It
sounded like an interesting event.

~~~
irollboozers
There were plenty of TV cameras everywhere recording. It'll surface somewhere,
likely on the UW CSE pages.

For me watching the Kinect render the images so smoothly and immediately was
pretty cool. Then again I was stuck 4 floors up and couldn't see anything.

~~~
toxic_madness
Yeah, I was on the 5th floor. I had a good view actually, but it was a little
bit hard to hear, especially at the beginning while everyone was still moving
around, trying to find a place to stand.

~~~
irollboozers
I was surprised by how much he seemed to know about research happening here at
UW.

I ended up leaving shortly after he started the Q&A. The crowd was too
fanboyish for me to handle.

------
cavalcade
I wish more geeks become billionaires.

------
ericsantos89
I would choose a product that touched a billion people over a billion dollar
product any day.

------
sabat
It's amazing how people forget. Bill doesn't have to worry about losing
everything he has -- there's no way -- muchless worry about losing his house,
getting fired in a recession, or how he's going to get his kids through
college.

Other than that, and the ability to go anywhere you want, do anything you want
within reason, and stay as long as you like -- yeah, I'm sure being a
billionaire is overrated.

~~~
heelhook
He says after being a millionaire there is not that much of a difference with
being a billionaire.

------
wavephorm
But if you try to become a billionaire, you'll be more likely to become a
millionaire.

~~~
mavelikara
Back in my home country, they say "Wish for a mountain, you'll get a hill"

------
ThaddeusQuay2
My considered opinion is that the main reason Bill Gates is spending so much
money, is to improve the world just enough to generate more users of Windows,
over decades, in developing countries, thereby adding to Microsoft's bottom
line, in the very long term, and in doing so, making more money for himself.
Think about it: You have to raise living standards for people in untapped
markets before they can buy your product, a thing which they now effectively
consider an unattainable luxury.

------
dbbo
I thought those "notes" were really poorly transcribed. Did the author really
not have time to turn them into sentences?

"Personally like to thank you for saving me winter algebra last year through
Khan Academy investment."

"Africa, 800m today will be bigger than China or India, 20M in 2040. In terms
of stability, education."

"Politics and role of web?"

"Student question on negative impact of technology."

I understand that he was just trying to get the gist across, but this is a
news article. I would have rather read a more readable article an hour later.

~~~
salvadors
They probably had something else to do in that next hour. Lots of events like
this go completely unreported precisely because the notetaker doesn't want to
publish them until they get around to going through and tidying them up,
which, of course, then never happens. Generally I'm happier with rough notes
like this than if they don't get published at all.

