
Inside Britain's Secretive Bullingdon Club - phesse14
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-bullingdon-club-and-the-excessive-british-elite-a-1057793.html
======
smoyer
You have to wonder why the Brits keep electing these elites to top positions
in the government (it's a little tougher to keep alumnae from being given
positions in the corporate world).

Of course, you have to ask the same question about US voters. And in a bit of
irony, this topic and another discussion [1] of the government elites in the
US vis-a-vis the Lawrence Lessig campaign are in the #2 and #1 spots on the HN
front page.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10403507](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10403507)

~~~
gsnedders
> You have to wonder why the Brits keep electing these elites to top positions
> in the government (it's a little tougher to keep alumnae from being given
> positions in the corporate world).

We don't. We elect a (one) Member of Parliament for the constituency we live
in. Following the election, the leader of the largest party attempts to form a
government (thereby making them Prime Minister), and they then appoint cabinet
ministers.

Most elections end up with people voting in favour of a party, regardless of
who the party has nominated to stand in the election, and those viewed as
"senior" members of the party are typically asked to stand in safe seats
(regardless of where the seat is and whether they have any ties there!).

~~~
mynegation
But does not that mean that prime minister must also be a member of
parliament, so at least people in one district voted for her or him? It is not
the same as whole populace of UK votes directly for Pam, but still.

~~~
gsnedders
Yes, they must have won one constituency.

In _theory_ , the Prime Minister can be in the House of Lords, though since
1902 this hasn't occurred—in principle, the Prime Minister merely has to be
capable of commanding confidence of the House of Commons (i.e., must be able
to win any motion of confidence, and to be able to ensure supply). It seems
highly unlikely for this to occur in future, however.

------
m-i-l
To see the photo including the current Prime Minister (David Cameron) and the
current Mayor of London (Boris Johnson), and the photo including the current
Chancellor of the Exchequer (George Osborne) and Nat Rothschild (of the
Rothschild family), see for example [0].

But beware, some of the photos appear to have had people airbrushed out[1].

[0] [https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/the-
bullingdon...](https://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/the-bullingdon-
club/)

[1] [http://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/2008/oct/26/george-
osbo...](http://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/2008/oct/26/george-osborne-nat-
rothschild)

~~~
bhickey
The Bullingdon Club members are a nasty bunch. As Right Honourable Tories they
back harsh drug policies all the while denying their youthful indiscretions.
Separately two British journalists told me that Osborne was deep into cocaine
when they were at Oxford. I don't care about his poor health choices, but the
baldfaced hypocrisy is laughable.

~~~
m-i-l
That doesn't surprise me. I think there is an element of truth in the cocaine
Conservative, champagne Socialist and latte Liberal stereotypes.

------
MathsOX
> Stairway to Paradise: Between drags on her cigarette, one student says that
> she will be working for Goldman Sachs.

As someone who worked at Goldman and is college-aged, I think this says quite
a lot about the piece in general. Working at Goldman is not some kind of
prestigious, difficult to obtain position. If you're in investment banking,
that's laughable. If you're in the SSG, then that's only more mildly
impressive. I did two-weeks in London where a few of the interns were part of
the Pitt club at Cambridge (albeit, not quite as storied a group, but
Cambridge's version of the Bullingdon Club) and seemed to revel in this
prestige despite having decidedly worse placements in every way than myself.
Only one of the three members were hired back full-time.

If these kids went to work at interesting hedge funds in Mayfair then I'm
inclined to suggest they have some powerful connections. But, by in large,
these are 18-21 year olds with all the insecurities and lack of knowledge
you'd expect. In the world of finance perhaps this club helps getting you an
interview at an investment bank, that's about it. Once you see how these
things work you become cognizant of the fact that stories like this are more
based in what the members of the clubs want you to believe secretively, or
rather a writer would like to suggest is some vast conspiracy to pontificate
on his or her moral outrage, then having even the slightest basis in reality.

Now, I would grant that having this kind of network gives opportunities to
become more involved in politics (similar to what Cameron himself did) at an
early age. That's fair, I suppose, however this notion of these secretive
groups, with members who have intellects and connections that the average chap
can only dream of ever obtaining is laughable. I'd encourage folks not to be
drawn into articles like this, similar to the film The Riot Club, that seek to
create heroic tragedies and spark mock outrage. Things are always more dull
then they appear and most things aren't intricate conspiracy theories, which
unfortunately HN seems to have a predisposition towards chatting about.

~~~
countrybama24
SSG is only "mildly impressive"? By what metric? Those positions put you
squarely in line for mega fund private equity jobs. If thats par for your
course, you must be in some pretty rarified air I guess.

The merits of those candidates is debatable, but the prestige of those
positions really isn't.

~~~
MathsOX
Mildly impressive in the spectrum of potential jobs, not just jobs at Goldman.
Plenty of folks in the SSG leave to jobs one-off kids go to immediately after
undergrad. This, of course, is all a function of your perception of the
prestige of buy-side vs. sell-side (more aptly, how rarified does your
position in the sell-side now have to be to get into decidedly less rarified
fields in the buy-side).

You should also be cognizant of the makeup of the SSG and how it's needing to,
unfortunately, evolve. It's far from a homogeneous group. The trading arm has
needed to be completely restructured after Volcker came into full effect in
July. Trading distressed debt is hard enough when you can take quasi-prop
positions, now it's a fundamentally different business and many top traders
have fled to the buy-side. I believe the only area that's truly insulated and
routinely profitable is MSI, which, yes, I'd be inclined to suggest is a
prestigious role. However, that's a small segment of the SSG.

I'd reverse your final sentiment. In my experience, the merits of those in the
SSG are usually top notch (just pick the best of the S&T/IB pool), the
prestige is debatably if your broaden the discussion. One of the best young
members of the SSG just left to go back to school to learn how to code.

Also note that by context for impressiveness in the OP was, for example, to go
work at a hedge fund in Mayfair right out of Oxford (perhaps, for example, at
Chris Rokos' new fund as he's a maths Oxford alum).

~~~
countrybama24
Sure, I just wanted to clarify that "mildly impressive" in this context
referred to "the relative prestige of that job within the spectrum of
potential positions available to high performers and the sons and daughters of
the ruling class at a small handful of the most elite universities worldwide."
This is quite a bit different than what one would normally associate that
phrase with.

~~~
MathsOX
That's fair. Would say that, in my experience, there wasn't much explicit
nepotism at GS. If there was it'd be a case of someone's son getting good
freshman/sophomore internships at small private equity shops, which made them
a pretty sure merit-based bet getting into GS.

------
mcintyre1994
> Yes, we would sometimes break plates or furniture or whatever, but we tried
> to be as polite as we could be to the people whose establishments we were in

Reading about this group is just surreal.

~~~
stuaxo
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1478131/Oxford-
hellra...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1478131/Oxford-hellraisers-
politely-trash-a-pub.html)

On this page

[http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/10/zionist-
brownshirts-...](http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/10/zionist-brownshirts-
in-the-uk-riots/)

"adeUK" wrote:

adeUK August 11, 2011 at 3:01 am

The Bullingdon Club :- Such a Riot !

Call me Dave Cameron, Boris Johnson and George Osbourne were all members of
the infamous Bullingdon Club whilst at Oxford. The club is renowned for two
things the wealth of its members and getting absolutely blotto and smashing up
the property. Apparently this is just high jinks and acceptable if one pays
for the damage. Any landlord or restaurateur who wont be bought off and
reports this activity to the police is seen as a bad sport.

“Boris Johnson himself was seen fleeing down the highstreet & crawling on his
hands and knees through the undergrowth after the window of an upmarket venue
was shattered. ….of course back then there was no CCTV & boris Johnson face
wasn’t plastered all over the internet.” [1]

Andrew Gimson, who wrote a biography of Boris Johnson, said about the
Bullingdon Club in the 1980s: “I don’t think an evening would have ended
without a restaurant being trashed and being paid for in full, very often in
cash. […] A night in the cells would be regarded as being par for a Buller man
and so would debagging (An act of removal of the trousers) anyone who really
attracted the irritation of the Buller men”.

In recent years, dinners have been more low key but in 2004 a 15th century pub
in Oxfordshire suffered considerable damage during a dinner, and four members
were arrested. – BBC.[3]

“A number of episodes over many decades have become anecdotal evidence of the
Club’s behaviour. Famously, on 12 May 1894[11][12] and again on 20 February
1927,[13] after dinner, Bullingdon members smashed almost all the glass of the
lights and 468 windows in Peckwater Quad of Christ Church, along with the
blinds and doors of the building. As a result, the Club was banned from
meeting within 15 miles of Oxford.[2]

While still Prince of Wales, Edward VIII had a certain amount of difficulty in
getting his parents’ permission to join the Bullingdon on account of the
Club’s reputation. He eventually obtained it only on the understanding that he
never join in what was then known as a “Bullingdon blind”, a euphemistic
phrase for an evening of drink and song. On hearing of his eventual attendance
at one such evening, Queen Mary sent him a telegram requesting that he remove
his name from the Club.[9][14]

Andrew Gimson, biographer of Boris Johnson, reported about the club in the
1980s: “I don’t think an evening would have ended without a restaurant being
trashed and being paid for in full, very often in cash. […] A night in the
cells would be regarded as being par for a Buller man and so would debagging
anyone who really attracted the irritation of the Buller men.”[15]

Dinners in recent years, being relatively low key, have not attracted press
attention, though in 2005, following damage to a 15th century pub in
Oxfordshire during a dinner, four members of the party were arrested; the
incident was widely reported.[16] A further dinner was reported in 2010 after
damage to a country house. [17] [18]

In the last few years the Bullingdon has been mentioned in the debates of the
House of Commons in order to draw attention to excessive behaviour across the
British class spectrum,[19] and to embarrass those increasingly prominent MPs
who are former members of the Bullingdon. These most notably include David
Cameron (UK Prime Minister), George Osborne (UK Chancellor of the Exchequer)
and Boris Johnson (Mayor of London).[20][21] Hansard records eight references
to the Bullingdon between 2001 and 2008.[22] [2]

Photos of the Bullingdon Club Members

[http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/the-
bullingdon-...](http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2010/03/14/the-bullingdon-
club/)

MUST SEE

An exploration of the shared past at Eton and Oxford of the two most powerful
Conservative politicians in Britain: London Mayor Boris Johnson and party
leader David Cameron

[http://www.channel4.com/programmes/when-boris-met-
dave](http://www.channel4.com/programmes/when-boris-met-dave)

[1] [http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/the-bullingdon-
club](http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/the-bullingdon-club) [2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullingdon_Club](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullingdon_Club)
[3] [http://singularinvestor.hubpages.com/hub/The-Bullingdon-
Club](http://singularinvestor.hubpages.com/hub/The-Bullingdon-Club) Log in to
Reply

------
PythonicAlpha
What is so special about it?

We are at the verge of a new area of aristocracy. The new aristocrats are
building their relationships and are shielding themselves from the plebs --
just the same as in the Roman empire: The "best" people of the world, don't
need morals or standards, that belong to the outsiders.

That is also the reason, we need more and more surveillance -- to protect the
"best" people from the terrorists -- all people, that oppose this world-order.

------
calibraxis
Interesting how these aspects are distributed in different cultures. For
example in the US, musicians of certain genres (and probably other artists)
are expected to act that way. In the 2004 presidential election, frontrunners
Bush and Kerry were both from the same elite Yale secret society, where they
were trained to be members of the ruling class.

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DanBC
Putting his penis in a dead pig's mouth is one of the least objectionable
things about Cameron, which says a lot.

(And it's probably not true, even though it was widely reported).

------
abhv
At Harvard, there is the Porcelian club. The initiation ritual is equally
secretive and elaborate. The club is said to be the third largest land owner
in Cambridge (behind Harvard and MIT), and that if you are a member who is not
a millionaire by the age of 40, the club will make you one (so that every alum
is). Winlekvii were members

