
So you think you can tell Arial from Helvetica? - airstrike
http://www.ironicsans.com/helvarialquiz/
======
pasta
Arial:

 _" It was created to be metrically identical to the popular typeface
Helvetica, with all character widths identical, so that a document designed in
Helvetica could be displayed and printed correctly without having to pay for a
Helvetica license."_

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial)

~~~
M_Bakhtiari
I wonder why they had to make it gratuitously different on top of it. What the
hell were they smoking when they made the t and G?

~~~
tomcooks
They were smoking possible lawsuits from Haas Type Foundry or whomever was the
legit owner Helvetica at the time.

~~~
slededit
Glyphs aren't copyrightable. Only the programs that draw them - but MSFT can
write their own fonts.

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ironicsans
So, I think there’s something you should know. When I made this quiz I made a
mistake. I keep meaning to go back and change the quiz to fix it but it’s been
so long that it’s a low priority for me. So I’ll just tell you what it is:
Turns out the “digital” logo is apparently not actually Helvetica. It’s not
any font. It’s a logo that happens to look a lot like Helvetica, which was
designed the same year, and has often been recreated in Helvetica. But there’s
a very nerdy story about it’s creation and maintenance that is probably
perfect HN material that more of you would appreciate if only I’d noticed this
post sooner. But for those of you who are still here, the “digital” logo story
can be found at:
[https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200712/ancient_history_the_di...](https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/200712/ancient_history_the_digital_logo.html)

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jschulenklopper
19/20, fooled by Mattel (and guessed lucky on the other all caps texts). My
heuristic was to look at the a, c, e, g, and s, if present in lowercase: are
the ends of those characters horizontal (Helvetica) or at an angle (Arial).

~~~
lloeki
18/20, they're fairly easy to tell apart, except for MATTEL and TOYOTA which
are quite subtle (and I got wrong precisely because I couldn't remember which
is which). Both the capital and lowercase R are a dead giveaway.

~~~
majewsky
MATTEL and TOYOTA are the most difficult ones IMO. I got Toyota right because
the non-circular O's in the Arial variant just look wrong to me.

~~~
jsjohnst
The Y is also slightly different too.

------
have_faith
Even HN falls to it's knees in the presence of an internet quiz and the
opportunity to show off a score.

Unrelated, you used to see ridiculous amounts of quiz's being shared on
Facebook only a few years ago and they seem to have all but disappeared. They
where obviously shady in some aspect (maybe some kind of data collection), did
something actually happen to them or did people just get bored?

~~~
airstrike
I had a feeling that was going to be the case ;-) Mission accomplished!

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The_suffocated
Got 3/20\. I didn't know the characteristics of Arial or Helvetica beforehand.
The results show that I can easily tell the two fonts apart, although I don't
know which is which.

~~~
lucb1e
3 wrong? If so, same here. I also didn't know the characteristics so at the
first logo I noted the differences and tried to remember what I noticed about
Arial in the past, guessed correctly, and was able to find common letters in
most subsequent ones (and learn new letters). I kept messing up the capital A,
otherwise I would have gotten only one mistake.

~~~
The_suffocated
No, not 3 wrong, but only 3 right. I was effectively doing a blinded test.
Since I didn't know what are the real differences between the two fonts, all I
could do --- as another user has commented --- was to make consistent choices
throughout the whole test. Actually I think a blinded test is slightly more
meaningful, because the test hypothesis looks simpler.

~~~
tinus_hn
Most normal users see much more Arial text than Helvetica so it looks more
normal to them.

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vinceguidry
17/20\. I've spent some time studying the differences and could just rocket
through them without bothering to even look at the 'c's and 't's. The one that
gave me the most pause was digital, and that was one of the ones I got wrong.
When you separate the letters, Helvetica loses a lot. The other two I got
wrong were also done without letter-by-letter examination.

Helvetica just looks more 'solid' sitting there on the page. Not only is the
font a bit heavier, but the kerning is also tighter. Arial's curves and lines
look like a 15 year old who thinks anime art is cool drew them.

Arial is an awful font that I wish never had been born.

~~~
lloeki
> digital

The lowercase a is a dead giveaway.

~~~
vinceguidry
I didn't go reading up on the specific differences between the fonts before
taking the test. I did look at the 't', but I didn't remember which was which.
I had been relying on the impression the two fonts made on my mind.

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mattkevan
20/20.

They're fairly easy to differentiate. The curved ends (finials) of e, c, C, r,
S, s are generally horizontal in Helvetica and at an angle in Arial.

The tail of the uppercase R and ascender of the lowercase t are the biggest
giveaways.

Funny how they are so similar, but Arial is pretty tacky in comparison...

~~~
Aaargh20318
The only ones where it was difficult to tell the difference were MATTEL and
TOYOTA.

~~~
mattkevan
Yeah, Mattel was tough.

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splatzone
19/20\. Damn you to hell, Mattel!

~~~
beaker52
Toyota :'(

Just look for the neatest font, with the straightest endings on curved ends
e.g. r c g etc

Arial has angled caps, Helvetica are straighter.

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pure-awesome
Just to even out the comments of all these people bragging, I got 11/20, so no
better than chance. :)

(EDIT: Okay, yes, technically 11/20 is slightly better than chance - but
really, no.

Cumulative probability P(X >= x) = 0.41 )

~~~
sammorrowdrums
I did hopelessly, then I found out about the differences (which I did not even
ever know or notice), I got 100% on a second try. Consider me enlightened
about the differences now.

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kuroguro
> You answered 2 out of 20 questions correctly.

At least I'm consistent, but I guess I got them the other way around.

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disillusion
Helvetica has a few very easy tells; look at the 'e' and 'c', the 'F' and 'E'
and the 'A' and 'Y' in these examples, and you'll get 20/20\. Oh, and the 'G'
and 'R' ofcourse.

~~~
frabert
Also the lower case 't' is diagonally cut in Arial, straight in Helvetica

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Tepix
I had to guess for two logos: MATTEL and TOYOTA. The rest was fairly obvious.

~~~
dsego
The helvetica A is narrower and the Y has a shorter stem. I saw those
differences but also guessed wrong.

------
dang
Previously, from 2013:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086793](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5086793)

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tomcooks
20/20

c's and t's are a giveaway, Mattel and Toyota logo are easy to tell if you pay
attention to the font weight.

Bravo to the author, the logos were recreated faithfully

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carlmr
17/20 (without looking anything up). You can usually tell by the
"straightness" of Helvetica characters, and the more complex G.

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jsjohnst
It’s easy to tell if you know what to look for. If there’s an R, r, or t, it’s
super obvious. G, S, s, 3, Y, A and a are also pretty noticeable too. If you
didn’t score well on this test, go back and look again given what I just told
you above and you’ll see what I mean.

~~~
52-6F-62
Oh it's always in the lowercase a. Arial is missing that trademark grotesque
tail.

And perpendicular cuts on all C/c/S/s/e/G/g

~~~
jsjohnst
The uppercase R is the most obvious one to me, which interestingly is the only
one I prefer Arial over Helvetica. I sometimes like to screw with font nerds I
know and make the R be Arial and the others Helvetica and see if they notice
(they of course notice the R, but don’t always immediately realize the joke).

~~~
52-6F-62
Haha— that's clever, but cruel.

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tshoaib
The bolder one is Helvetica. Got 15/20 after figuring this out from the first
question.

~~~
airstrike
Would be good if they didn't tell you the answer after each question...

['t', 'R', 'a', 's', 'S', 'c', 'C', 'g', 'G'] are the easiest to spot IMHO.
You can get most of these with the lowercase c alone

~~~
dzdt
By telling the answer after each one they educated me on the difference
between Arial and Helvetica. After a coin-flip guess on the first question I
got 19/20 right. Now I know the difference.

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lucideer
I got one wrong—Mattel—but, frustratingly, even after being told this, I still
can't really confidently tell the difference with that one...

I guess 5 capital letters wouldn't've been enough for the owners of Helvetica
to have made a case

~~~
dragonshed
That one is quantifiably the most difficult to decern, but the irregular
kerning gives it away. Helvetica has slightly better spacing between letters.

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sarabande
Got 15/20, although I don't know much about fonts (I just tried to pick the
one that looked better or more professional).

To the quiz creator: There's an (R) trademark missing in the imitation
"Staples" logo which is a giveaway.

~~~
davio
15/20 also and knew nothing about them. Figured out what I missed on the first
one and corrected from there.

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LeanderK
Well, that was easy. Helvetica just looks more less fancy and more modern (if
you want to be sure, just look at the a, e, s etc.).

What I think is interesting is that Helvetica just looks better to me, despite
them bein very similiar.

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curlypaul924
18/20\. I got thrown off by the kerning in CVS/pharmacy. On Crate&Barrel, I
was thrown off by the C. Why does it look different from all the other C's in
the Helvetica versions of the logos?

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kbob
This quiz really drives home how thoroughly Helvetica has permeated corporate
typography. It's like Brooks Brothers or ThinkPads -- you couldn't have a
serious business without it.

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philliphaydon
I got 19/20, I failed on Toyota. :(

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frankzander
17/20 Target Toyota and National are hard ones (IMHO)

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mcgwiz
18/20 the quiz just crystallized my distaste Arial.

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admax88q
19/20, missed national

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amyjess
18/20

Only missed Mattel and Staples.

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camgunz
It's bananas to me how similar these fonts are, and how passionately people
feel about them:

> the stupid slanted end bits on letters like c s and r are also really crap.

> Arial is an awful font that I wish never had been born.

> What the hell were they smoking when they made the t and G?

Like, I wish Hitler had never been born. Arial can stick around, haha.

~~~
skinnymuch
People are obviously exaggerating. I don’t care much about fonts. But I still
wrote to a friend that Arial is ugly and sucks when linking to this. That
doesn’t mean I really care all that much. Just a feeling in the moment.

~~~
camgunz
Yeah of course they are. I guess my point is that it isn't helpful. Like, with
a just a modicum of self discipline we could go from "the slanted lines are
really crap" to "slanted lines in a font are bad because ...", or from "I wish
Arial had never been born" to "the introduction of Arial into the mainstream
was disastrous for design because ...". At some point, the internet is a
cesspool because of us.

