

Vanhawks (YC W15) Raises $1.6M to Help Put the Valour Smartbike on the Road - alizhd
http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/04/vanhawks-raises-1-6m-to-help-put-the-valour-smartbike-on-the-road/

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mcbain
So many WTF, so little time.

They designed a carbon frame and fork for a commuter bike, going through the
huge time and money sink that is creating their own moulds (plus need at least
one per frame size and they are expensive) and it doesn't have fender or rack
mounts (for aesthetics). Nice practical choice there.

Maybe it is just prototype photos, but custom designed bars/stem/fork and they
couldn't route the cables for the electronics internally? Plenty of examples
of that working already (look at Di2 builds using PRO parts from Shimano). And
on that: integrated stem/bars might be fine, but only if they are exactly the
right size for you.

And routing/directions? (Ooh, haptics, that'll work on a bumpy street.) For a
short-ride/commute bike? That you'll need once to learn the way and then not
again? Maybe on a touring bike to get you through a complicated all-day route,
but this is not that bike.

Yes, I'm a bike snob, but I'll stick to my cheap commuter and my fleet of
pricer rides, thanks.

~~~
alizhd
Hey Mcbain!

Thanks for the comments and feedback!

Our bike can be equipped with off the shelves fenders and rack mounts. :)

All of our cables are internally routed.

We suggest you routes for your way as we collect data from people around you,
giving you best route suggestions aka waze alike. :)

~~~
mcbain
Proper fenders and racks, or clip on ones that fall off if you look at them
the wrong way?

We don't need a Waze-alike - Strava heatmaps already do it. Cyclists are
pretty good at finding the most efficient paths.

------
CookieMon
Imagine a car saleman explaining to you "these batteries under the bonnet run
the headlights, these batteries at the back are for the tail lights, over here
there's another battery to light up instrumentation at night, and the dashcam
has it's own battery as well. You'll need to keep all of them charged manually
with this car, and they're each charged seperately"

The salesman then proceeds to give another tour around the car showing where
each of the switches are located to turn on each component, and how many times
you need to press them.

Who would put up with such a car? I deal with that crap every day plus
_another_ battery on my helmet. To drag bikes into the 20th century, we need
frames with 1 [good] internal battery, 1 chargepoint, 1 switch, and a
multitude of compatible accessories which can be attached in different places
and hook into the frame's standardized internal electrics.

This makes me feel like I'm going crazy - seeing a new bike manufacturer
skipping such everyday basics and deciding that what bike frames have been
missing is bluetooth connectivity. Including a comms wire in the frame wiring
gets you that anyway - people who want a "smart bike" can plug in a smart
device under the seat and some output devices on the handlebars. Better
upgrade path too.

(Include a wheel sensor in the frame, as wireless speedos suck, and having the
sensor output available on the comms wire means all devices can use it as
wake-up)

------
kazinator
Doesn't look very smart to me.

I commute year round in all weather: pouring weather, snow. I need fenders.
Look at the frame: it has no receptacles for the screws for installing them.

For $1250, you don't even get lights, nor reflectors in the wheel spokes:
basic safety features.

Also no suspension in the frame. Thin tires. For something pitched for
commuting, this is designed an awful lot like a racing bike, but not optimized
for that use, either.

For commuting you generally want 1.5" to 1.75" road slicks. They require less
pressure to achieve low rolling resistance (you will be grateful when you
don't have to jam 115 p.s.i of air using an emergency hand pump), provide more
comfort and protect the wheel against damage from surface irregularities
better. In commuting you have potholes, stones and curbs to contend with, as
well as junk that falls out of trucks. Some of it you don't see very well at
night.

I would probably trash that frame in about a year.

[http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/why-you-should-be-
ridi...](http://www.roadbikereview.com/reviews/why-you-should-be-riding-steel-
and-not-carbon)

This is a bike to separate yuppie fools from their money.

Not to mention investors.

"LED's to guide you on your commute". WTF? You can get voice directions via
headphones from a navigator. Approaching right turn. Ding!"

------
graffitici
I am not trying to be cynical, but if software is eating the world, does it
make sense to build _hardware_?

It seems to me that sticking an iPhone on any bike via an attachment would do
everything this bike does. It has an accelerometer for pothole detection. GPS
for speed and navigation. You could even charge your phone in the process!

The two things that can't be replicated are blind-spot detection and theft
protection. There is no shortage of small devices on Kickstarter that can
duplicate these features. A small IR sensor that bolts to the back of the
bike. And for theft protection to work as expected, there needs to be hundreds
of such bikes on the street. At the $1200+ pricepoint, I find that unlikely..

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allworknoplay
As a crazy street biker and very opinionated person, this just makes me say
"ICK."

It reminds me of one of those swiss army knives with the 16mb USB stick built
in. Seems cool at the time until you realize something that should last a
decade or more is now irrevocably tied to something that's going to be
obsolete next year.

Plus the market for $1,200+ commuter bikes simply cannot be that large.

They should have just made nice-looking attachments and left it at that.

~~~
alizhd
Hey !

Thanks for the comment and feedback! Really appreciate it.

We have something in the work for an attachment in the future. The Valour is
our way of offering an experience versus just a new spot of technology. :)

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prewett
This seems like an expensive way to replace smartphone + google maps +
earbuds. As far as I can tell from the article (which was pretty much silent
on the product), it does not address any of my problems with bicycles: 1) US
cities are too spread out 2) Biking up hills feels like it takes a lot more
energy than just walking up them, so I generally don't bike anywhere that has
hills (= I guess I'll just take a car, then). Maybe fancy $1000 bikes zoom up
the hills, but I don't want to spend that much. I've already got a car... 3)
My destination usually does not have showers, which is a problem when the
temperature is 90 - 105 deg F for a large portion of the year. 4) The most
direct roads sometimes have cars speeding by at 45 - 60 mph; not safe. In
Austin, one of the popular biking routes has one biker killed every year; I
don't really want to be part of that statistic.

I would love to bike, but frankly, I'm kind of lazy (especially regarding the
hills). I would be interested in an affordable bike that mitigated some of
these problems, though.

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EwanG
I congratulate anyone that can get funding toward making their dream real.
However after spending a year riding an electrically powered bike, I would be
curious how this will address/handle the following things that finally caused
me to hang up my wheels:

1) As you get older, particularly if you work in tech, you will notice your
wrists, elbows, and shoulders getting a little sore. Ergonomics can go some
way toward minimizing that, but riding a bike in any kind of traffic will put
a lot more strain on you. Any kind of cushioning/shock absorbers/breaks?

2) Mentioned the electric assist. Is that going to be an option for these, or
is your audience only folks who can ride a regular bike from day 1? A number
of folks I've run into wanted to switch to a bike from their car, particularly
during nice weather, but wanted some assurance they wouldn't get exhausted
halfway there. The assist made it possible for me.

3) In the same vein, some way to fold this so it can be carried in a small car
or some special rack so it can be carried by car? Particularly for a commuter
audience I would think you would want the ability to hop a car or bus or train
for part of the ride?

4) Lights rechargable? How many recharge cycles? Batteries replaceable for the
lights/sensors/bluetooth?

5) Someone has already mentioned a smart helmet. I know there are a couple
companies working on those, but are y'all working with any of them to
incorporate a handshake so you can possibly trigger things at the best time?

6) Lastly, any thoughts to collision avoidance signals for other traffic?
Something where it senses a car or other vehicle is getting too close and
either hits the horn or flashes a light(s) to try and get the driver's
attention?

Thanks in advance for your time.

~~~
allgood38
I can update you on a few of these points:

For 2), there is no electric assist (as in no electrical motor). Any reference
to electronics refers to the main-board in the handlebar that contains a bunch
of sensors and things.

4) The lights are totally rechargable. There is a dynamo in the center of the
front wheel hub that generates far more power than the system uses. Its
expected that the dynamo will be sufficient as the sole power source. There is
one high-capacity battery in the handlebar that powers all electronics.

6) At the moment the bike only notifies you if something moves into the
blindspot, however it wouldn't be difficult to make it flash the rear lights
at the same time to notify the driver.

~~~
alizhd
Hey Ewan + Allgood38!

Thanks for the comments and feedback! :)

1) We use ergonomic grips and saddle from Ergon!

2) the bike is not paddle assist, we might have something in the future though
;).

3) No way to fold it but you can carry this on a bus, train or a car easily on
a bike rack.

4) yes they are chargeable!

5) We will look more into this forsure. :)

6) yup! Thanks for the suggestion! Will look into it more!

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tarikjn
As a biker, for this style of bike, if I was to buy a bike today I would
prefer BMC's AC01 IGH, which albeit more expensive, has parts which are more
standard and for which BMC has made a kit of custom fenders and lights (City
Kit lighting): [http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-
en/bikes/lifestyle/mounta...](http://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-
en/bikes/lifestyle/mountainroad-alpenchallenge-ac01_igh_alfine-alfine_11/)

However I think attempting to mass produce a high-quality smart bike is a very
commendable endeavor as it is dearly needed on the market. A great city bike
with a good setup for lights, theft security (screws, tracker, lock), low
maintenance (belt, hub) easily cost more than a cheap used car and you have to
curate all the accessories yourself whereas most of these things com built-in
on a car/motorcycle.

~~~
tarikjn
Something I'd like to add, what's greatly missing in the bicycle world to me
is a smart bicycle helmet. My current setup involves:

    
    
      * Bell Muni helmet
      * with rear and front flea lights
      * front GoPro
      * jawbone which falls all the time
      * Rudy project glasses with chromatic lenses
    

We're already talking about over $500 and 4 different batteries.

I have seen some attempts at smart bike helmets, but none doing it right.

Also, I second that the rear proximity sensors and haptic feedback are likely
to be a gimmick, I would drop the navigational indicators and place a built-in
anti-theft tracker instead. Besides they are easily confused with turn signals
for a buyer looking at the bike for the first time.

As an experienced San Francisco city rider, rear sensors are a gimmick as you
learn to grow eyes on your back and you already see these things, or it is too
late. What matters though is a front camera first, rear camera maybe.

------
alrs
In computerland, technologies trickle up. The PC, the iPhone started out at
home, found a niche in business, and then took over.

With cycling, innovations trickle down from the top. Starting out with a flat-
bar hybrid is not starting at the top, and seems like a really weird choice.
Hybrids are marketed to beginners, or mountain bike people who want to train
on the road with the same hand position they ride off-road.

Sofware may be "eating the world," but Asian manufacturing has been eating the
cycling market for 40 years. Shimano, specifically, is a far more profitable
business than any of the branding companies or manufacturers. If you aren't
going after Shimano, you're fighting for scraps.

------
mleonhard
Looks good! How about a high-visibility version in bright yellow and large
reflective surfaces?

Why did you choose the Fallbrook N360 over the Shimano Nexus Inter 8 which is
cheaper and 2 lbs lighter?

------
soperj
Why flat handle bars?

~~~
alrs
My guess is that they're targeting middle-aged-monied-nerds-who-don't-ride-
bikes, which is a reliable but tiny market. The kind of people who buy
recumbents and put them on Craigslist a few years later, unridden:

[http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4910738255.html](http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/4910738255.html)

[http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/bik/4894883743.html](http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/bik/4894883743.html)

~~~
lclarkmichalek
You get that based off the handle bars alone? God there are some snobs in this
thread...

~~~
alrs
If you're inviting me to pile on..

I'll also point out that carbon is a terrible material for bikes that are
getting banged around with locks and bike racks. Minor carbon damage can cause
total material failure. Your bike shatters underneath you.

People who spend >$1000 for a bike don't usually buy hybrids. Existing roadies
won't want this. The market will be people-who-don't-currently-ride, but won't
think anything of spending >$1000.

People-who-don't-currently-ride are going to be very uncomfortable on a bike
that has its handlebars lower than the saddle.

They will sell some, but few will get ridden for any length of time. If they
want to create something like bike-Waze, they need network effects, which is
going to be very difficult at this price point with a product that isn't
interesting to current cyclists with disposable income.

Bike shops are going to avoid stocking these, as they don't want to be on the
hook for supporting a complicated product from an untested vendor. Buying a
bike though the mail means assemble-it-yourself, which is easy to get wrong.
It's even more perilous with carbon componentry.

