
Patterns of Death in the South Still Show the Outlines of Slavery - iamthirsty
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mortality-black-belt/
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fmitchell0
As an engineer, I always get frustrated when it seems like a lot of our
customers are more concerned with the perception of the existence of
something, rather than its actual existence. I'm continuing to learn (UX not
withstanding) that just because you solve a problem, it doesn't mean the user
believes the problem is solved.

As a black engineer, I've often thought that if there were data, science,
math, and straight forward research on the more than $300B+ the slavery system
provided for the U.S. in free labor (think of the biggest costs to business)
and it's effects, that maybe we could have a conversation about data-driven
solutions. Think of how we've added data to sports and created a new economy
on improving outcomes because the definitions of success are clear with many
pathways.

Looking at this thread, which I assume to be mostly engineers, slightly
disabuses me of this notion. The longest threads are about the use of the word
slavery (perception) and rural, (mostly white) america (not even sure why this
is relevant).

~~~
swasheck
> Think of how we've added data to sports and created a new economy on
> improving outcomes because the definitions of success are clear with many
> pathways.

I've thought about this, too - using data to work toward solutions to problems
that plague our society. I'm constantly haunted by the belief that there is a
set of solutions "out there" but am bedeviled by my own inability to
accumulate, homogenize, and aggregate that data that I _can_ find. Even still,
sites like 1degree.org do give me hope that the data is available and that
there are folks who are willing to do the work of using it (though that's an
admittedly different application).

At any rate, thank you for your post. It's stirred that thought within me
again.

~~~
lostlogin
An observation on how data gets used: someone decides what they want to do
then dig out or fund getting the data that supports the plan. How do you avoid
that?

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PatientTrades
I grew up in Newport News, Virginia. Its one of the towns on the map that is
nearly black. I can tell you first hand that many in that city still feel the
aftermath of slavery. The poor illiteracy, cognition skills, financial
mobility, health, etc, within the black community is truly staggering. I now
live in California, but for anybody that claims slavery had no long term
effect, go to some of those towns you will be shocked.

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TheAdamAndChe
Almost the only people doing well in rural America are those with generational
wealth. I know plenty of people from my small hometown that have been doing
okay with their farms. One of them has a gravel business. Those without such
luck are either moving to a bigger city or experiencing a declining quality of
life, and they're coping with drugs, meth mostly. I can't imagine what that
would be like in areas that haven't been able to build that generational
wealth.

The question is, how do we get rural economic development going again?

~~~
latencyloser
Would remote work help? I would think encouraging or allowing more 'white-
collar' workers to be more spread out throughout the country would help
increase demand in places other than large cities and tech hubs.

I, for one, miss rural life (wide open space, less traffic, mom and pop
stores, etc.) but unfortunately my career as a programmer doesn't cater to
that lifestyle all that well.

~~~
rm_-rf_slash
Let's say you have a reasonably well-paying remote job and you could live
anywhere. Let's also say you're married and have children. Do you want them to
go to good schools? Do you want them to receive quality healthcare that does
not break the bank? Do you want to use convenient services like Uber/Lyft when
the need arises? Do you want access to a network of professionals that can
help you grow your career?

If you answered yes to these questions, you're not going to find many places
rural America that satisfy your needs. At best you'll end up in an outer-
exurbia like greater Atlanta.

I don't think remote work of a few well-paid professionals is a viable and
sustainable solution for rural America.

~~~
ashark
I'd probably pick a smallish (sub-250k population) city, I think. The kind
that rural folks mean when they say they're going to The City to shop. Maybe a
"university town". Beats exurbs or ultra-pricey real cities. The trick is
finding one small enough that you aren't stuck with shitty schools if you want
to live in the city core.

~~~
eropple
That's part of it. The other part is transit. Cars are bad; I don't really
want to ever own one again and I _definitely_ don't want to have to drive one
every day if I do. So anywhere I'd want to move would need to either be super
walkable or have transit. And small cities usually, IME, aren't the first and
don't have the second.

I live in a 50K-population city adjoining Boston, so they exist, I just don't
know how well they exist independent of bigger cities.

~~~
ashark
Inexpensive, 100%-no-car-required, and decent schools is... a tough set of
requirements to satisfy in the US. Hell, getting any two of those is an
accomplishment.

~~~
eropple
True enough. I'd pass on the third, at least for now, for the first two. But
those two alone is a mess.

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thriftwy
It's interesting to consider how having fertile soil reliably gets you.

You would imagine it is a good thing until you realize it's a guaranteed case
of Dutch disease, one that is reliant on having a lot of indentured labour
around.

And _then_ it will stop being profitable and demand subsidies.

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occultist_throw
Ive always taken an unpopular view about slavery.

"We never quit doing slavery."

It is true the Constitution was amended after the Civil war to include banning
of slavery in most circumstances. However, slavery is explicitly still allowed
as a "punishment for a crime". Instead of "Black = Slave", it's "Black =
criminal , criminal = slave". After all, it only takes only 6-12 angry white
men to find you guilty.

I would think one of the major points BLM should be making, is removal of
slavery as a punishment. It has too many very degenerate ways it can fail -
and in some ways I think were very intended. But I doubt in this political
climate of this happening.

EDIT: Boy, I said it was an unpopular view. Wasn't expecting this much hatred
and contention, along with this much -1's. I mean, it's not like the 13th
amendment explicitly says.

~~~
RingwormOne
Slavery has had significant long term effects on the black community. That
can't be denied. Disproportionate poverty in the black community is directly
tied to slavery.

However I disagree that slavery - as the term is usually meant to mean - still
exists in the form of incarceration.

We as a society have decided that certain things are illegal. The black
community, because of poverty (so because of slavery), disproportionately
breaks those laws and so there is disproportionate incarceration.

Slavery is the root cause of this disproportionate incarceration, but we
should not blame the fact that we have a system which punishes criminals, or
equate the enforcement of laws with slavery.

Instead we should be trying to eliminate outdated laws - the illegality of
marijuana for instance - and also reducing crime in the black community.

~~~
omegaworks
>The black community, because of poverty (so because of slavery),
disproportionately breaks those laws

This is so simplistic that it borders on a racist falsehood. Increased police
presence, inadequate legal representation, racially motivated jury-selection
and expansions of prosecutorial power are huge factors.

Educate yourself.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk)

[http://newjimcrow.com/](http://newjimcrow.com/)

~~~
RingwormOne
I'm not sure why you would call that statement racist.

Poverty tends to beget crime, this is very hard to deny. Because the black
community - as a result of the slavery of its ancestors in this country -
suffers disproportionately high rates of poverty, it also suffers from
disproportionately high rates of crime.

