

Let Haitians Vote with their Feet - cwan
http://volokh.com/2010/01/18/let-haitians-vote-with-their-feet/

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dpifke
The problem I see with this is that if all the Haitians who are motivated to
help themselves leave, who's left? Haiti's problems don't solved and you've
eliminated anyone who aspires to a better life.

~~~
gcheong
What often happens is that those who end up making a better life for
themselves in a foreign country tend to send money back to their relatives who
couldn't make it out, thus helping to raise the standard of living. Also, a
lot of them would probably want to return someday or will see ways to bring
business to their home countries that would have otherwise never come about.

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kingkongreveng_
> "voting with your feet" is a powerful tool for helping the poor and
> disadvantaged improve their lives

Trouble is what happens to the poor and disadvantaged already in the
destination countries. Wages are suppressed and other resources are spread
thinner. Call me crazy but I think a country should be run for the benefit of
the people already in it.

~~~
pmichaud
So you're saying that it's not right for us to let people move from, say, 1 on
a "quality of life" scale, to 80, because some people in the rich country
might be lowered from 81 down to 80 for their sake?

I just made up the scale, but that seems to be the jist of the argument, and
if that's what you're saying, then I think you're wrong. I think we can help
those people more than we'd hurt anyone at home.

~~~
geebee
I think you have the concept right, the real dispute comes down to your
numbers.

I think that the united states could absorb the entire population of Haiti
without much impact (ie., from 81 to 80), and eventually we'd probably
benefit. But how about all the desperately poor people everywhere else in the
world? At some point, I think we're going a lot further down than just one
point on the scale.

Right now, this reality is reflected in our (remarkably badly run) immigration
system, where the United States takes about 1.2 million immigrants legally
into the country every year, by far the most in absolutes and high up there in
percentage of population, but still faces a surprising amount of criticism for
being anti-immigrant because we don't take in even more. Much of this
criticism comes from people who live in countries that are remarkably stingy
with their immigration systems.

~~~
ajkirwin
Cite this, because it sounds like BS.

~~~
geebee
Would you let me know what I need to cite? Immigration stats, along with
national policies, are readily available on the web.

~~~
eru
I guess he's talking about "At some point, I think we're going a lot further
down than just one point on the scale."

I doubt that statement, too.

~~~
geebee
Fair enough to disagree... I'm just confused that someone would ask for a
citation, since it's clearly just a projection or opinion. Maybe he just
wanted me to defend it, rather than just claim it...

That said, do you really think that "unrestricted" immigration (excluding
border cases of known criminals, etc...) in the US (or Canada, Australia, etc)
would not have a substantial negative impact on quality of life? It seems
obvious to me that it would, but if you have any good arguments, studies,
links to the contrary, feel free to post - I will read them.

~~~
eru
Thanks for taking out the obvious straw man with "(excluding border cases of
known criminals, etc...)". Yes, a defence preferably with some data would have
been good.

Yes, I do believe that unrestricted immigration would not have a substantial
negative impact on quality of life for the resident population. And would have
an enormous positive impact on the migrant population.

People from the poorer parts of the US are already allowed to migrate to the
richer parts. Why stop there? Also as poorer nations joined the Schengen-Area
(related to the EU) there have not been qualitify-of-life-decreasing mass-
migrations.

You may argue that there can be quality-of-life degradations when the
immigrants are not properly integrated. But the US seems to do a pretty good
job in this respect. (My home country, Germany, much less so.)

Sorry, I do not have enough time to write down a real argument, but if you are
really interested, I can perhaps prepare a blog post or so.

