
In Cairo, the Garbage Collector Knows Everything - smollett
https://lithub.com/in-cairo-the-garbage-collector-knows-everything/
======
jbuzbee
My brother and sister-in-law (Westerners) lived in Cairo for a few years and
tell a similar humorous story. They too would just set their trash and
unwanted items out in the hall where it would quickly disappear.

Once my sister-in-law put out some clothes that included an old T-Shirt that
had been printed for a family get-together celebrating her parents 50th
anniversary. It had a large photo of her parents on it along with wording like
"John and Mary's 50th anniversary" etc. etc. She thought nothing of it. But
several days later while walking near their apartment, she was taken aback to
see an Egyptian man coming toward them proudly wearing the T-shirt with her
parents smiling photo on it.

And it seemed this was his favorite or only shirt. For months afterword, she'd
see her parent's photo as the man went about his business in the neighborhood.
She took it all in stride!

~~~
usbseeker
That is so sad she threw the shirt out, were they on bad terms with the
parents?

~~~
lusmd
Some people attach more emotional value to items like that. Some don't. I did
for a long time. After a lot of big changes I kind of stopped hording things
as much and it was very freeing.

------
woliveirajr
I love how HN is so diverse and how many submissions' titles can be read in
many ways.

Tip: this article is about a human, real-person garbage collector, and garbage
is the real, physical waste that people put inside bins.

~~~
laszlokorte
and it's on lithub.com, not github.com

~~~
dunkelheit
Hilarious. This submission wins the "Most easily misread by a programmer"
award.

~~~
patrick5415
Glad to know I’m not the only one surprised by the content of this story...

------
vilhelm_s
When I read this, my first thought was "wow, this must have been really hard
to anonymize, if he wasn't careful to remove/change enough details people
could figure out who the garbage man is".

Well, not so much...

> So of course Sayyid was aware that I was researching and writing about him.
> At the same time, he is not literate, so there are serious limitations on
> his understanding of something like a New Yorker story.

> I also considered whether to change his name or not use a photograph. But I
> don’t like to do that unless there are serious political risks. Inevitably,
> changing a name reduces the reality of the subject, and there’s more of a
> risk that the person comes across as a symbol or something half-real.

(From [https://www.facebook.com/41268348994/posts/pete-asked-me-
to-...](https://www.facebook.com/41268348994/posts/pete-asked-me-to-post-this-
regarding-his-recent-new-yorker-articlehi-im-not-on-f/10152490349503995/) ,
which is a response to [http://edgeeffects.net/tales-of-the-trash-
response/](http://edgeeffects.net/tales-of-the-trash-response/) .)

I feel the ethics here are really dubious.

~~~
mc32
Yeah, it’s a stretch to say using an alias makes it less real or using a
ruckenfigur picture takes away from the story. If the law allows for witness
protection via alias, I can’t see something less real or genuine.

As someone else had pointed out this man may not realize or care about the
consequences of the publicity but the author does have a duty to care and I
think he betrayed that duty here.

~~~
chc
I'm trying to figure this out: What, specifically, is the duty you think he
betrayed?

It's pretty obviously not the case that authors have a duty to anonymize
everybody they write about — I've never even heard a serious argument to that
effect.

Hessler said he considered whether there was likely to be negative
consequences for Sayyid if he was identified in the story, and he didn't see
any likelihood of that. There don't appear to have actually been negative
consequences (at least, nobody has mentioned any), so it's hard make a strong
case for negligence on that front.

~~~
mc32
So, to me a lot of what he (the sanitation worker) did wasn’t “official”.
Also, he scavenged (and maybe it’s lucrative to him, if so it might interest
others). It also mentions he does not observe religious orthodoxy. Someone
could come along and try and argue he’s not fit for the job or worse.

It’s like when writing s story about people on the periphery of society and
most writers use pseudonyms for their subjects. It’s good courtesy and good
practice.

~~~
neilv
I think you have a good thinking about journalistic practice here.

It might mitigate hypothetical undesirable effects, in this case, to
articulate some of the effect of the article on readers for whom the article
was intended.

For one example, for me, as a citizen of the US, where this article was
published, I enjoyed this article, and it fostered a favorable impression of
Cairo, by humanizing one of its people. In a movie, he would be a beloved
character. I realize he is of humble circumstances, among a diversity of
people in Cairo (we have such diversity in my own US city, too). I am glad he
exists, and that his society permits him to find his own greatness of role, in
his way. This gives me an impression of Cairo as good people, with whom to
feel fellowship, a desire to travel there and to otherwise learn about and
appreciate their culture, and with whom to have good international relations
and engage in business/trade. I would be troubled to ever hear that any harm
has come to this person, or that he has become unhappy.

~~~
ozzmotik
oh wow that's an astonishingly wholesome take on it. and now that i think
about it, one that is quite resonant with my own experience of it in
retrospect. it was certainly an extremely humanizing piece and i think in that
regard, it's doing one of the most noble honors (at least in my moral
framework): striving to eliminate xenophobia. so much in this world tries to
divide us by our national identity and our ethnicities, etc, but at the end of
the day, we are all just one species, and any difference that we perceive
physically is just a side effect of phenotype expression, and any other more
abstract difference such as belief, etc, is a side effect of the culture and
society surrounding that phenotypical substrate. we work so hard to divide
ourselves from our core nature, which is to cooperate and seek novelty, so
it's quite cathartic to see a piece that tries to eliminate a substantial
contributor to that division.

~~~
microcolonel
> _so much in this world tries to divide us by our national identity and our
> ethnicities, etc_

It is precisely that we have real, inescapable conflicts that makes it
heartening to see something transcend that.

If it transcended nothing, what would it mean? Probably nothing.

~~~
ozzmotik
this is certainly accurate. without the presence of the xenophobia in the
first place, there would be no means to appreciate it when people manage to
transcend it. and xenophobia obviously exists on a biological and instinctual
level and has been selected for for a reason so it obviously serves a purpose,
it's just a problem when it overactivates. it's all about balance and
understanding that just because you feel a certain way, doesn't mean that you
have to put it out there on the world

------
cpeterso
See also the "Elephant in Cairo" search algorithm:

1\. Go to Africa.

2\. Put an elephant in Cairo.

3\. Start at the Cape of Good Hope.

4\. Work northward in an orderly manner, traversing the continent alternately
east and west,

5\. During each traverse pass:

* Catch each animal seen.

* Compare each animal caught to a known elephant.

* Stop when a match is detected.

6\. If you are in Cairo, then there are no elephants in Africa (other than the
one you placed there).

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_Cairo](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_Cairo)

~~~
JadeNB
> 6\. If you are in Cairo, then there are no elephants in Africa (other than
> the one you placed there).

Or, perhaps, other elephants already in Cairo ….

~~~
Viliam1234
I suspect there is a "Falsehoods programmers believe about elephants" article
somewhere...

~~~
cardiffspaceman
Not to mention, falsehoods about the geography of Africa.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Agulhas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Agulhas)

------
kwindla
Peter Hessler's books about contemporary China are super-interesting reading.
He's a very low-key, but deeply informed cultural translator. In all his
books, he focuses on the stories and lives of the people he meets and gets to
know, first as a young Peace Corps volunteer, and then as a journalist living
in the country for many years. If you're interested, maybe start with _Country
Driving: A Journey from Farm to Factory_.

~~~
616c
I will give his China stuff a look bc this is the 2nd Egypt piece he has
written that is miffed me. But I will try and keep an open mind.

------
adamiscool8
Haven't read this yet, but it reminded me of a very interesting RT Documentary
on the life of an Egyptian garbage collector a few years back:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0s7WsoC528](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0s7WsoC528)

------
zyngaro
I honestly thought the post was about the Cairo graphics library and how it
used GC

------
zaat
>During subsequent conversations with Sayyid, I learned that the Reuters
correspondent who lived upstairs paid only 30 a month, which made me feel good
about my decision. It seemed logical that a long-form magazine writer would
produce more garbage than somebody who worked for a wire service.

Thank you for this gold

------
616c
I guess I'll get in trouble for saying this again. He is compelling and be
speaks Arabic blah blah blah, but I feel these articles are more about him
than Sayyid, over which we haggle with him vicariously over Egyptians pounds,
approximately seventeen to one US dollar now. I know that feeling, but I
wouldn't even ironically brag about paying fifty cents over the other wealthy
foreigner a month. I would saying something here ironically in cutesy Egyptian
Arabic and explain it, but I'd be my own worst enemy.

I have to visit often for family reasons, and they are the reason I avoid
being more engaged about being outspoken over there about what goes on. I feel
as a westerner we have passively let Egypt totally devolved and we should feel
ashamed; these lip service articles only assuage personal guilt, as I see it.
I dreamed of being a Hessler and now ashamed I am part of the clique when I
visit old friends.

I know I'll go get down-voted for saying it, but oh well.

I would strongly encourage everyone here to visit, and go beyond what tourist
books tell you. You cannot freely write on the details of the place anymore,
and I learned the most about life from Egypt.

~~~
wsc981
I feel you read a bit too much into all this. The guy is a journalist and his
wife as well. I suspect they don't make much money from their job so they have
to be a bit careful on how they spend it. And knowing they pay a bit more
compared to some other Western guy in their apartment complex ... well, I feel
most people would feel better about themselves as well given the circumstance.
I feel it's just human nature. From his story it's clear it's hard to figure
out the "proper" amount of pay, there are no clearly set rules.

I did find his writing compelling and added the book to my Amazon Wishlist.

In the past I visited Egypt once through a more adventurous travel agency. It
was still an organised trip, but I was happy to see quite a bit of Egypt which
included sleeping in the desert, sleeping in an oasis, have a small boat trip
on the Nile, eat dinner with a Nubian family, visit the archeological museum
and most important mosque in Cairo, as well as an important coptic church. And
did see all the well known attractions such as the pyramids, valley of kings,
Luxor, etc... It was fun and I'd love to visit it again in the future, but I
feel it's currently probably too unsafe. Even back in 2005 when I visited
there were military escorts with out travel group as we travelled to the
south.

~~~
616c
I visit 3 to 5 times a year. It's not that unsafe, in Cairo at least, as
police reaction forces roll around in Jeeps and I have never seen people want
to make such a fuss to get their attention; foreigners used to be interesting
but stuff is so bad I feel tourism took a nosedive and over the years people
don't bother foreigners has less of a payout and nothing really matters
anymore. I feel the big cities must have more risk, unless we are talking
Sinai where people are actively fighting the military and Egyptians not
directly in that zone avoid.

Westerners continue to make vastly more than local counterparts, and those 40
pounds buy less in 2007 than they did in 2019 (6LE:1USD,17.8LE:1USD, it was
even crazier for foreigners when black market currency flowed freely and was
stopped violently, including dragging exchange owners and seizures by police
in ... 2018). Letting foreigners say stuff like this and rationalize it is
part of how we helped passively ruin it.

You are right. I do read a lot into it, but stuff like this has been
bothersome to me for what you can guess is 10+ years now. That we all go wow,
look at this foreigner's insight into Cairene culture in 2019 with pieces like
this just makes me sad.

Those organized trips are fun, but it limits the people and experiences you
have. I understand we gave limited time on this planet and vacations in
foreign countries are scary and uncomfortable so the effort and risk/reward is
high unless you're a crazy person like yours truly.

I said elsewhere I will read his Chinese stuff and have my sinologist friends
read it with me too see if it similar and I overreact.

------
Hasknewbie
FYI as hinted at the top of the page, this is a recycled (duh) version of a
much longer article published 5 years ago:

[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/tales-
trash](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/13/tales-trash)

It feels weird to see a journalist republishing the same content just like
that, but my guess is he has his book to promote and not that many angles to
introduce the topic.

------
sdfjkl
So I wasn't just paranoid when I used to shred all my papers at home before
throwing them away.

Related, when I moved out, I sold/freecycled most of my stuff, then invited
some people to take what they want from the leftovers and finally left the
stuff nobody had wanted in a big box in the bin room downstairs. Minutes later
I saw the building cleaners haul the entire box into a car.

------
mszmszmsz
Hahah, I was sure this was a programming story!

------
torgian
In Taiwan, the garbage collector also knows everything.

------
gumboshoes
Lovely. Thanks for posting this.

------
riffraff
I honestly thought this was about the graphic API and resource management, I'm
impressed by my own restricted imagination at this point.

~~~
geocar
Same. And so struck was I by the writing and the story I scanned that I went
back and read it aloud in an effort to get as much out of it as I good.

These gems are treasures.

------
erik_landerholm
I figured there was some new language Cairo with a next gen garbage collector.

~~~
donpdonp
I thought someone found a speedup for the Cairo graphics library by looking at
the garbage collector.

~~~
anaphor
Same. I've been messing with Xlib/XCB/Cairo/etc for the past few weeks and
it's all I've been thinking about lately. I guess if you use the Xlib/XCB
backends for Cairo surfaces then you would get some sort of GC on the Xorg
server side.

------
rbanffy
At first I thought it was a reference to Dilbert...

------
Jeff_Brown
tl;dr, anybody?

I came to this article hoping to learn something about public policy, esp.
regarding privacy. Whatever insights into those topics there might be are too
buried in story for me to find them easily so I stopped reading.

~~~
egypturnash
When you do not _have_ a publicly-funded garbage collection infrastructure,
then the private enterprises that fill in those gaps can, and will, make use
of any physical or informational resources they find in the trash they pick up
in an effort to make a decent living. Examples given include "a nice camera",
"drugs", "porn", and "knowing exactly how much money an ambassador is making".
There are no examples given involving blackmail but I feel that's definitely
an elephant sitting in the room of this story of one journalist's relationship
with one private garbage collector.

Now that I put it that way I feel like this is the core of a good argument for
nationalizing social media.

~~~
Jeff_Brown
Scary.

It's not obvious to me that I should trust the government more than a big
corporation with a reputation to defend. If Google was found to be leaking
credit card details, for example, it would at least cost them a ton of
business (and maybe do much more harm than that). They have the wherewithal to
avoid it. The incentives for long-term investment in security infrastructure
are weaker in government.

~~~
mynameisvlad
> If Google was found to be leaking credit card details, for example, it would
> at least cost them a ton of business

Would it? I can't think of a single case where this has actually happened.
It's great in theory and all, but it is far from reality.

The biggest data breaches over the past century have been with giant companies
that are still known today. Yahoo, Marriott, Adult Friend Finder, eBay,
Equifax, Heartland Payment Systems, Target, TJX, Uber, JP Morgan Chase, the US
OPM, Sony's PSN network, Anthem, RSA, Home Depot and Adobe are all still in
business, and for some of them, the _lack_ of repercussions have been
staggering (looking at you, Equifax).

Granted, not all are credit card breaches specifically, but several are, and
in all cases a lot of personally identifiable information was stolen.

Source: [https://www.csoonline.com/article/2130877/the-biggest-
data-b...](https://www.csoonline.com/article/2130877/the-biggest-data-
breaches-of-the-21st-century.html)

