
Research Chef: You’re Not Allergic to MSG and More Culinary Secrets - cwan
http://www.chow.com/food-news/69604/you-re-not-allergic-to-msg-and-7-more-secrets-from-a-research-chef/
======
RoboTeddy
The actual troublemaker is free glutamic acid, a molecule with flavor-
enhancing properties. It's one of the basic amino acids that make up proteins.
No one reacts badly when they eat it if it's linked up to other amino acids,
but when it's running around free it causes reactions in some people.

A largish dose of free glutamic acid will trigger a migraine for me (and my
dad) consistently. It's anecdotal, but I'm confident that this particular
anecdote would hold up in a double-blind test.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG) disassociates into sodium and free glutamic acid in
food; that's why it's often added. But any ingredient that contains broken up
protein can be an issue; e.g. hydrolyzed soy protein or autolyzed yeast
extract. MSG has a bad rep, so often foodmakers will try to slip free glutamic
acid in some other way (often while shouting on the package, "NO MSG").

Food that benefits a lot from the flavor enhancer, such as canned soups, will
almost always have a lot of it. Lots of stuff has _some_ amount of free
glutamic acid (such as broccoli, like the article mentions) but (speaking
personally), it's not enough to trigger a reaction.

There aren't many foods our ancestors would've eaten that contained lots of
free glutamic acid. We're talking about the same molecule that serves as an
excitatory neurotransmitter in your brain. It turns out that if you eat a lot
of it, it's possible to get a headache (other people claim other ailments).
Not much is known about the specifics of the mechanism, but it's not that
implausible.

~~~
tptacek
So, you can't eat parm or tomato paste then? Both have high levels of free
glutamic acid.

~~~
nkurz
More on glutamates in parmesan and tomatoes (agrees with tptacek):
[http://blog.khymos.org/2007/07/06/glutamic-acid-in-
tomatoes-...](http://blog.khymos.org/2007/07/06/glutamic-acid-in-tomatoes-and-
parmesan/)

------
pierrefar
_Carrageenan is on a lot of labels, and I'm often asked, 'What is that
chemical?' It's not a chemical. It's seaweed!_

Actually, it _is_ very much a chemical. All food is chemicals. It's just
perverted advertising that convinced the masses that chemical = "something
bad".

For more sad laughter on this topic, the Royal Society of Chemistry's blog has
a category for "chemical free" living:

<http://prospect.rsc.org/blogs/rsc/tag/100-chemical-free/>

They even announced a £1 million bounty for anyone who can find a chemical-
free cosmetic:

[http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2010/CTPA100Ch...](http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2010/CTPA100ChemicalFree.asp)

~~~
ced
_Actually, it is very much a chemical. All food is chemicals._

That's literally true, but not the intended meaning. Chemical has become a
synonym for "man-made". It's a useful distinction. If you were forced to
choose between eating 100g of a random "chemical" molecule, or 100g of a
random "natural" molecule, you would be much better off with the latter.

True, scientific studies can show that chemical X is harmless, but.... only if
the study was done over a very long time. Only if it was done properly. Only
if the scientists didn't receive their financing from BigCo.

It's perfectly reasonable to be wary of "chemicals", heuristically.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not one of these people living in mistrust of
chemicals. But I understand where they're coming from, especially if they have
a poor grasp of science. A reasonable move for Kasparov (e.g.: sacrificing his
queen for tactical advantage) might be a terrible move for me in the same
situation.

~~~
burgerbrain
> _If you were forced to choose between eating 100g of a random "chemical"
> molecule, or 100g of a random "natural" molecule, you would be much better
> off with the latter._

Here, have a delicious puffer fish. I prepared it myself!

Rating chemicals by whether or not they occur naturally is a really _piss-
poor_ way of judging danger. There is a practically unlimited number of
naturally occurring chemicals what will knock you dead, and there are
similarly _tones_ of synthesized chemicals that are completely harmless, _or
even beneficial_. Bringing _"synthesized vs. naturally"_ is _always_
disingenuous, we have had better ways of judging danger since the dark ages.

~~~
ced
You make a good point, though I wish you hadn't called mine retarded.

 _we have had better ways of judging danger since the dark ages._

That's true. And if you trust scientists and the FDA to do their jobs, you're
all set. But what if you don't? Let's say that I'm at the supermarket in a
small, poor country with a corrupt FDA, and I want to buy some juice. Well,
I'm going to favor those brands with natural ingredients (and hope that the
ingredient list is correct). Maybe that's a stupid move, but it has served me
well so far.

~~~
burgerbrain
"You make a good point, though I wish you hadn't called mine retarded."

Apologies, I sometimes forget some people find that word particularly
offensive.

~~~
ced
No problem! In fairness, this "pick a random chemical component" idea was at
least _moderately_ retarded, and most worthy of criticism.

------
bugsy
The article's author demonstrates poor analytical skills.

Regarding poisons themselves, they all depend on how much you ingest. How much
salt do you eat? Three pounds a day? Salt is a poison and if you eat too much
you can get sick and die. Almonds contain cyanide. People eat almonds without
dying. Does that mean cyanide is a beneficial substance in all quantities?

Regarding allergens there are similar dynamics. Someone allergic to cat dander
will be able to walk down a street where cats have been. But they may not be
able to sleep well in a bed that is normally occupied by 100 cats. Or consider
peanuts. Someone allergic to peanuts will not do well eating a peanut butter
sandwich. But most of them can handle being in the presence of peanuts,
despite hysterical media reports of people dying after kissing someone who had
recently eaten a peanut, all stories of which were discredited.

Glutamate content of some foods (mg per 100g) roquefort cheese 1280 parmesan
cheese 1200 soy sauce 1090 walnuts 658 fresh tomato juice 260 grape juice 258
peas 200 mushrooms 180 broccoli 176 tomatoes 140 mushrooms 140 oysters 137
corn 130 potatoes 102 chicken 44 mackerel 36 beef 33 eggs 23 human milk 22

So people are claiming "It is in human breast milk and beef and eggs!" Yes,
22mg to 33mg of glutamates per 100g. Up at the top, parmesan is 1200mg per
100g. How much parmesan do you eat exactly? Is this a cheese that you slice
off in giant wedges and gnaw on? Or is it grated and used like a spice in
relatively small amounts by weight?

------
aaronbrethorst
> Chef Wendy, who works for a Canadian firm that develops private-label
> products for companies like Whole Foods, Safeway, General Mills, and
> McDonald's, would prefer not to reveal her last name, but that was the last
> thing she was reticent about.

So, uh, why did she put her _real name_ on her Chow.com account, then? Once I
had that, it only took a Google search to find out where she works.

~~~
hartror
Probably because nothing discussed in the article is actually something her
employers would be worried about. The whole secrecy seems to be there to add
sexiness and authority to the article. In fact the way she and her personal
work and values are presented I would be pretty happy if I was her employer.

------
yarone
_Who made that microwave burrito you're eating..."It's all in code," says Chef
Wendy. If the product has meat, poultry, or eggs in it, by law it must have an
establishment number or name somewhere on the label_

I wonder if there is an opportunity for a mobile app where you scan a food
barcode/code and see where it was made. You could rate the food and see
ratings of other foods made by that company / at that facility.

The data is here:
[http://www.fsis.usda.gov/regulations_&_policies/Meat_Pou...](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/regulations_&_policies/Meat_Poultry_Egg_Inspection_Directory/index.asp)

~~~
prawn
A local jam/sauce maker, Beerenberg, has a Provenance Pathway feature on their
site:

[http://www.beerenberg.com.au/go/our-products/provenance-
path...](http://www.beerenberg.com.au/go/our-products/provenance-pathway-
andtrade)

Enter the barcode and expiry of the product and it will show you the recipe,
when/where it was made, photos of the workers involved in its production,
description of the process, the source of each ingredient, packing specs, etc.

------
gamache
Big deal, so it's not a real allergy. When I eat food containing a lot of
added MSG, my brain feels like it's on fire. Maybe it's not anaphylaxis but
it's still annoying.

~~~
tptacek
What are the foods you eat that you perceive as containing a lot of added MSG?
Maybe there's something else they have in common. Insulin responses can easily
and predictably give you a headache.

~~~
gamache
Two foods have reliably caused symptoms that I connect with MSG: the fried
rice from one particular place near where I went to school, and Doritos. I can
eat equivalent amounts of other fried rice or corn chips without symptoms.

------
larrik
My favorite part? The mystery chef actually appears in the comments herself.

Overall, though, the article is rather light on actual content.

------
Skroob
For reference, the link to Whole Foods "Unacceptable Ingredients" list is
here: [http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/unacceptable-
ingred...](http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/unacceptable-
ingredients.php)

~~~
pohl
The list mentioned in the article was about Trader Joe's.

~~~
SwellJoe
The Whole Foods list was also mentioned in the article.

------
richcollins
_Chef Wendy says it's absolutely possible to make a frozen meal that will
knock you out of your chair with greatness. "But that entrée needs to cost $7
to $10. People are willing to spend that much in a restaurant for something
mediocre but not for something fabulous from the grocery store."_

I would pay that in a second. I cook for myself and it ends up costing around
$7 a dinner.

~~~
steverb
Okay, either you are cooking with some seriously high-end ingredients, live in
an insanely high cost of living area, or you're doing something wrong.

I highly doubt that a prepackaged frozen meal that costs $10 is going anywhere
near as tasty as what you can make at home for $7 a meal.

~~~
joezydeco
You only get ingredients cheap when you buy them in bulk. I can totally see a
good steak and a veggie costing $7 when you buy them solo.

~~~
jamesteow
Pretty much.

Ever need to buy fresh thyme/bay leaf/parsley for a bouquet garni? Or lots of
vegetables to make a sauce? Or if something calls for a chicken/beef/vegetable
stock, even if I make it myself to save myself from the pre-packaged brands,
it'll cost a few dollars per serving on top of the other ingredients that go
into a meal.

------
jrockway
I am not sure I agree with this. I routinely get frozen food from the grocery
store that's $7.

~~~
pkulak
Maybe a lasagna that feeds half a dozen people. That's all I've ever seen in
that price range. What single-entre item costs $7?

~~~
jrockway
Amy's organic stuff.

~~~
mast
I think that is exactly the point the chef was making. Consumers in general
are not willing to pay (or can't pay) for high quality frozen food. Look at
how many brands are available in the $2-$3 range vs. higher cost items.

~~~
jrockway
But I mean, I can buy it at the normal "cheap" grocery store. Stores like
Whole Foods have even more options.

~~~
kscaldef
My "normal" grocery store has Amy's and the like in a special section I think
of as the "food for hippies who didn't have time to go to Whole Foods today"
section. They also keep all the "environmentally friendly" cleaners and such
in the same area. (I believe it is technically referred to as the "natural
foods" section, but none-the-less the point is that they actually segregate
the expensive, organic, natural, enviro-friendly, etc stuff off into a little
store within a store.)

------
tingletech
[sigh] glutamate != monosodium glutamate. Those have glutamate but not
necessarily MSG...

~~~
tptacek
So you think maybe that by being paired with sodium in a salt, the glutamic
acid that occurs naturally in many of the most popular natural foodstuffs in
the world might "set peoples brains on fire" (see above)?

~~~
nkurz
No, he probably agrees that they are functional analogs and is just making the
point that if you are brought in as expert in an article, you should strive
for as much accuracy as possible.

While I agree with her general precept that MSG allergies do not exist, and I
personally have no more fear of glutamates than of sodium, I'm bothered by the
level of inaccuracy in the statement: "Broccoli, mushrooms, tomatoes,
inosinate, guanylate, and autolyzed yeast extract? Give up? They are all
sources of monosodium glutamate."

Guanylate and inosinate are comparable to glutamate, and often used in
conjunction with it, but I don't think it's even colloquially correct to say
that they contain it. Am I wrong? In the same vein, it also seems fair to
point out that the naturally occurring form is different than the purified
salt. Would you say that corn on the cob 'contains' high-fructose corn syrup?

I'd normally just assume she was misquoted, but in the comments she attacks
the discussants for "carrying on with this technical mumbo jumbo and further
confusing the issue". Maybe she's a good chef, but I sure don't trust her
science.

~~~
tptacek
You make a good point, and I probably was being tendentious with my comment,
but note that your point is slightly orthogonal to his; I'm just reacting to
the implication that glumatic acid might be OK and MSG might not be, which
rankles.

~~~
nkurz
And for all I know, maybe this is what 'tingletech' meant, but I figured I'd
give him the benefit of doubt. I also gave this benefit to the Chef in the
piece until I read her comment on the commenters, where for me at least she
'removed all doubt'.

But agree with you completely on the conclusion: if you are allergic to MSG,
there's a lot else you should be avoiding. It's wild how many traditional
'seasonings' like Parmesan, fish sauce, ketchup, and kombu are effective
because of naturally occurring glutamate/inosinate/guanylates.

~~~
tingletech
maybe TMI; but I have high blood pressure and am on a low sodium diet -- for
me the tasty umami amino acid is okay; the sodium in the MSG not so much.

But my main gripe was about the technical accuracy.

------
jtchang
Maybe not allergic to small amounts but if I eat a large amount of MSG I get
really thirsty and sometimes it triggers a bad headache.

~~~
rglullis
Have a large amount of coke (regular or diet). Hell, have a large amount of
sea salt. Same effect!

You being thirsty is just because your cells are dehydrated when there is a
large-ish concentration of salt on your blood. The headache you are feeling?
Dehydration.

------
Aloisius
I am actually sensitive to MSG and I still eat the stuff. In large doses that
it causes my lips/tongue/throat to numb. It took me years to figure it out
since it would only happen after eating at certain restaurants or foods and I
could never find anything in common.

It wasn't until I bought a bottle of MSG and started putting it on everything
that I managed to reproduce it at home. Of course, I was putting it on things
like pizza (I thought it was the greatest substance since salt!).

Most restaurants and snack foods don't put nearly as much on food as necessary
to trigger my reaction.

I still think MSG is awesome.

------
xiaomai
I found it interesting that the chef claimed that frozen food could taste
better than restaurant food. I recently bought a few frozen dinners to see
what they taste like. The more expensive ones definitely taste better than the
$0.88 Banquet dinners. Claim Jumper was the best, IMHO. One area where the
dinners consistently fail though, is texture. Things that should be crispy
(like a deep-fried steak), are soft and mushy. Can you accomplish the wide-
variety of textures in frozen-dinner format without additional preparation?

~~~
trouble
The lack of textural variety is the main thing that puts me off frozen foods
as well. Choosing a frozen meal over a restaurant meal is like choosing to eat
at an old folks home instead of accepting a friend's home-cooked dinner
invite.

Also, people deep fry steak? Mind blown. I didn't know people did that.

~~~
lsc
also called "chicken fried steak" - usually it's 'cube steak" which looks a
lot more like ground meat than like actual steak, then it's breaded, deep
fried and smothered in gravy. It's a very traditional dish in the south,
though it doesn't taste very much at all like what most Americans would call a
'steak'

~~~
trouble
Fascinating, first the concept of deep fried steak and then _chicken_ steak?
... American food never ceases to surprise me (a pescetarian from New
Zealand). So different :)

~~~
Avshalom
no, chicken fried steak is beef cube steak breaded and fried. it's "chicken
fried" meaning fried in the same manner as chicken. That said, like fried
chicken it doesn't have to be made in a deep fryer it can be made with a good
solid layer of very hot oil in a pan.

~~~
trouble
Oh, thanks! Steak, fried 'chicken style'. Hah.

------
jamesrcole
Jeffrey Steingarten's excellent "It Must've Been Something I Ate" has a good
chapter on MSG and the myths about it

[http://www.amazon.com/Mustve-Been-Something-Ate-
Everything/d...](http://www.amazon.com/Mustve-Been-Something-Ate-
Everything/dp/0375412808)

------
varikin
Actually, some people are allergic to MSG. My wife is allergic to corn and
corn derived foods such as MSG. MSG might also exist in broccoli but not in
the MSG powder many people refer to when talking about MSG.

~~~
Avshalom
MSG isn't derived from corn, and even if the sugar that fed the yeast that
made the glutamate came from corn, by the time it's commercially sold MSG it
is so chemically pure that it would be irrelevant.

~~~
varikin
According to Wikipedia, it is made from starch, sugar beets, sugar cane, and
molasses.

And starch quite often is corn starch.

As for the chemically pure aspect, I don't know enough to comment. No one
really understands what causes allergies and no one can point out what aspect
of corn causes it. For example, she also has a milk allergy (not intolerance),
but does not have issues with milk that has been cooked, such as creme
anglaise for making ice cream. Something with cooking the milk changes it. As
for how this is related to corn, who knows. What part of corn caused the
allergy? If you don't know, how do you know it was removed in the process of
making MSG?

