
Clemency petition for Ross Ulbricht reaches 7,000 signatures in less than 4 days - mich_op
https://www.change.org/p/freerosspetition-we-seek-potus-s-clemency-for-ross-ulbricht-serving-double-life-without-parole-for-a-website-realdonaldtrump-free-ross
======
JeremyBanks
> _Ross is condemned to die in prison, not for dealing drugs himself but for a
> website where others did._

Unless these transcripts are entire fabrications, he was rather more hands-on
with other criminals than this petition is letting on:
[https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-
bos...](https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-
ordering-5-assassinations/)

~~~
ekianjo
The violent charges were dropped during the investigation. In effect, he was
not judged based on such allegations.

Wikipedia:

> "Ulbricht was charged with money laundering, computer hacking, conspiracy to
> traffic narcotics,[26][30] and procuring murder.[27] The charge of procuring
> murder was removed from the indictment[31]"

31 refers to: [https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-
ross...](https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-
ulbricht/)

~~~
free652
He was judged (but not charged) on these allegations:

>The charge of procuring murder was removed from the indictment[31] although
the evidence was factored into Ulbricht's sentence.

~~~
ekianjo
That last part of that sentence has a missing citation. Do you have a source
for that?

~~~
gruez
the quote's from wikipedia

------
sdhgaiojfsa
Well . . . the charges themselves were all for non-violent offenses. But part
of the reason why the sentencing was so harsh was that whole thing where he
paid to have five people killed.

> "I find there is ample and unambiguous evidence that [Ulbricht] commissioned
> five murders to protect his commercial enterprise," Forrest [the judge in
> the case] said, leaving out one alleged attempted murder for which Ulbricht
> was charged in a different case.

\-- [https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-
ulbrich...](https://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbricht-
sentenced-life-prison/)

~~~
ekianjo
Maybe you conveniently forget that there was no such proof and that is why the
"procuring murder" charge was dropped by the prosecution.

> Of the six murder indictments trumpeted by the U.S. government in the days
> following Ulbricht’s Oct. 2013 arrest, five have fallen off the table and
> the sixth sits untouched in a separate indictment (legalese for an unproven
> allegation) that was purposefully left out of the upcoming trial.

> Prosecutor Serrin Turner used the murder-for-hire allegations to get the
> judge to deny bail. Now, Turner isn’t even going to charge Ulbricht with the
> murders.

> Why have six of the most important accusations been left as yet uncharged?

> “Maybe you don’t have that proof,” criminal defense attorney Jay Leiderman
> told the Daily Dot. “Maybe the proof isn’t as good as you thought it was.”

> There are a couple of other possibilities that deserve mention. First, there
> may be informants out there that the prosecution doesn’t want to expose,
> that they want to use for other cases, so they’re willing to leave half a
> dozen murders uncharged in order to protect him. Second, they may have
> determined that a relevant informant is unreliable and can’t be used in
> trial.

> Either way, the murder accusations are buried and uncharged.

from: [https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-
ross...](https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-
ulbricht/)

~~~
sdhgaiojfsa
I quoted someone who was intimately involved in the trial saying there was
ample and unambiguous evidence. Your theory on why those charges were not
included is one of a number of possible explanations. Another possible
explanation was that they felt they had enough to nail him sufficiently on the
other charges, and didn't want to bother to prove unnecessary additional
offenses.

~~~
DINKDINK
>Another possible explanation was that they felt they had enough to nail him
sufficiently on the other charges, and didn't want to bother to prove
unnecessary additional offenses.

Your argument is equivalent to: "As long as a conviction feels good, it
doesn't much matter if the due process of law is followed" . It's the
equivalent of arguing for a system that is ok with police breaking into a
house without a warrant as long as they find something illegal.

~~~
sdhgaiojfsa
> As long as a conviction feels good, it doesn't much matter if the due
> process of law is followed

What? I don't believe I said anything about "feeling good" anywhere in my
comment, so I struggle to fathom how my argument can be equivalent to an
argument that includes that term.

------
senoroink
For everyone mentioning Ross hiring hit men to kill people. He was never
charged with that. Prosecutors commonly fabricate a story to paint a picture
of a defendant for the jury. We will never know for sure if Ross actually did
this but he's innocent until proven guilty.

~~~
mich_op
Thanks for that. For those who want to read more, go to
[https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/](https://freeross.org/making-a-
murderer/) (link to Ross's charges and Ross's indictment and more) Ross's
charges at trial were all NON-VIOLENT.

~~~
gameswithgo
that is completely non convincing

~~~
senoroink
Regardless if it's convincing or not, he's not guilty of the crime.

Imagine this: you steal a bag of Oreos from a 7-11. You are sent to trial.
Then the prosecution says you also killed some dude. When all is said and
done, you are convicted of shoplifting and receive an insane amount of time in
prison but were never actually charged with murder, wouldn't you think that
the jury was manipulated?

~~~
s73v3r_
No, I wouldn't. Because the jury has nothing to do with the sentencing. The
prosecution also wouldn't just make up the story of killing some dude; there
would be some evidence to link me to that action.

Stop pretending that Ulbricht is some kind of saint, and that there is no
evidence of him doing this.

~~~
senoroink
I don't disagree that there may be some kind of evidence to link to that
action. But I do believe that evidence can be tampered with to create the
illusion. Seriously, a chat transcript is what people cite as evidence? We as
a society should doubt accusations until they've been proven to be factual.

There's been numerous cases of people being exonerated of a crime [1] after
spending years of their life inside prison.

I'm not trying to pretend that Ulbricht is a saint. He deserves to be in
prison for running an illegal market. But if that's all he was ever convicted
of, then I believe that the punishment of a double life sentence doesn't fit
the crime.

* [1] - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_i...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States)

------
blitmap
He tried to have 5 people professionally executed. He broke the law and
facilitated others breaking the law because he felt laws took away his
personal liberties. He is incompatible with this society and he's dangerous..

------
ekianjo
And meanwhile Paul Le Roux, who is actually a real drug kingpin and who has
ordered the murders of several people across the world (with a well proven
track of evidence) is not in prison and is working for the DEA.

[https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-
deal](https://magazine.atavist.com/the-next-big-deal)

Makes sense.

------
Simulacra
I think life was much too severe. Yes he did bad things, but people who
actually murdered other people get out of prison, why can’t he?

------
mich_op
Guys, for those who want to bring up the unproven, uncharged murder stuff,
please read [https://freeross.org/making-a-
murderer/](https://freeross.org/making-a-murderer/) Ross's been smeared in the
media enough, let's just help the guy.

~~~
s73v3r_
No, let's not help the guy. He's not deserving of help. And despite you
wanting to claim the murder stuff is "unproven and uncharged", the evidence of
his involvement is pretty clear.

------
ucaetano
"In my eyes, FriendlyChemist is a liability and I wouldn't mind if he was
executed, but then you'd be out your $700k."

"I understand, and that is great news about Xin [being kidnapped]. If I
understand the situation, he is the one responsible for your loss."

"I would like to put a bounty on his head if it's not too much trouble for
you. What would be an adequate amount to motivate you to find him? Necessities
like this do happen from time to time for a person in my position."

"It doesn't have to be clean, and I don't think there are any funds to be
retrieved"

"Don't want to be a pain here, but the price seems high. Not long ago, I had a
clean hit done for $80k."

"I've only ever commissioned the one other hit, so I'm still learning this
market."

"Excellent work."

So deserving of clemency...

------
meta_AU
Listened to American Kingpin on audiobook during a recent trip. It was pretty
entertaining if anyone wants more information on this topic.

------
clicicgtg
So this guy ordered hit men to murder ppl. Of course his dear mom left this
out in the petition...

------
danpalmer
I’m a little out of the loop here, but wasn’t the conviction also related to
hiring a hitman to kill someone?

~~~
DINKDINK
>wasn’t the conviction also related to hiring a hitman to kill someone?

No and that's the legal issue. He's being imprisoned for a crime he crime he
hasn't been convicted of.

~~~
s73v3r_
No, he's not. He's imprisoned for the crime he was convicted of. The judge,
having discretion on how much time he should be imprisoned for, took into
account the defendant's character.

