
The Man Who Smuggles Trader Joe’s into Canada - ryan_j_naughton
http://priceonomics.com/the-man-who-smuggles-traders-joes-into-canada/
======
tjradcliffe
The headline is inaccurate: no smuggling is involved.

Trader Joe's is a great brand name: they sell OK products and have developed
an incredibly loyal customer base. Pirate Joe's is trading on that popularity.

I'd love to understand the business logic behind Trader Joe's response to
this. It's not like they'd have to open up a full national operation.
Franchising in Canada is fairly simple and straightforward, so it's hard to
believe that licensing Canadian franchises wouldn't be a more profitable
approach to this than suing Pirate Joe's. There may be hidden costs, but
clearly things like creating Canadian-compliant labeling is a pretty small
barrier.

So as a business strategy:

a) refusing to operate in a territory where there is demonstrable demand for
your products

and

b) spending oodles of money suing people who are fulfilling customer demand
for your products in that territory

seems like the least sensible thing to do. It would be interesting to see the
economic reasoning behind it, which has never been clearly explicated
("Trademark protection" clearly won't suffice, as this article points out.)

~~~
cracell
Trader Joe's is a privately held company and doesn't franchise
([http://www.traderjoes.com/about/general-
faq.asp#Franchise](http://www.traderjoes.com/about/general-
faq.asp#Franchise)).

Seems like starting to franchise would not necessarily fit with their long
term growth goals.

I'd assume this is mostly just about brand control. A store selling their
products that they don't control will not necessarily have the experience they
want for their brand. Even if they can't shut it down, just harassing them can
prevent the store from growing very large and causing issues with their brand
perception.

That said more media coverage around this could paint Trader Joe's as a bully
and be more damaging to their brand than an unauthorized seller.

~~~
bduerst
That's doubtful. If the Girl Scouts started cracking down on cookie resellers,
I doubt people would side with the resellers.

With the reselling of groceries you run in to quality control issues, where
Pirate Joe's can be selling expired Trader Joe's goods and making people sick,
which can make Trader Joe's liable for harm.

~~~
tetrep
>With the reselling of groceries you run in to quality control issues, where
Pirate Joe's can be selling expired Trader Joe's goods and making people sick,
which can make Trader Joe's liable for harm.

Is there any precedence for that? I would love to see a court that put the
manufacturer of a product at fault for damage caused by an unauthorized
reseller. That would be no different than someone suing a food manufacturer
because a grocery store sold their product after it had expired.

If you notice in the article, he already needs to create new nutrition labels
for all the food to comply with Canadian law. He is clearly already liable for
what he's selling, I don't see how Trader Joe's would ever get implicated
legally if there were any issues with expired food.

~~~
foota
I can see where by knowing of Pirate Joe's and not taking action against them,
someone could argue that Trader Joe's was authorizing him to resale their
products.

~~~
golemotron
If there's a presumption of authorization by original manufacturers in the
sale of all goods, capitalism is broken.

------
vijayboyapati
There has been a long and storied tradition of smuggling in the Americas going
back to before the founding of the republic (John Hancock, president of the
first Congress, was a notorious smuggler in his day). Here are some examples
that always make me smile:

A letter from British Customs official writing a complaint home on the nature
of his work:

"In this country an officer of the customs ought to see his way very clear
before he ventures to make a seizure. Because he sure of having every possible
difficulty thrown in his way. He is looked upon as an enemy to the community
and treated accordingly. And whether he succeeds or not, he is sure never to
be forgiven, and thinks himself fortunate if his punishment is deferred to a
future day." [1]

Joseph Harrison, collector for the port of Boston:

"Large quantities of dutiable goods have been smuggled in a most audacious
manner. But publicly known and talked of, such is the temper of the times that
no legal information could be obtained so as to prosecute or make any seizure
of them. "

And finally a letter from the owner of a small smuggling vessel to the Captain
of the Speed Well, a government ship that had confiscated his ship, taken his
goods and seized his men.

"Sir: Damn thee and God damn thy two purblind eyes thou bugger, thou death-
looking son of a bitch. O, that I had been there (with my company) for thy
sake when thou tookest them men of mine on board the Speedwell cutter on
Monday, the 14th of December. I would drove thee and thy gang to Hell where
thou belongest, thou Devil incarnet. Go down, thou Hell Hound, unto they
kennel below and bathe thyself in that sulphurous lake that has been so long
prepared for such as thee, for it is time the world was rid of such a monster.
Thou art no man but a devil, thou fiend. O Lucifer, I hope thou will soon fall
into Hell like a star from the sky, there to lie unpitied and unrelented of
any for ever and ever, which God grant of his infinite mercy. Amen."[2]

[1][http://www.cambridgehistory.org/content/boston-tea-party-
and...](http://www.cambridgehistory.org/content/boston-tea-party-and-american-
revolution)

[2][http://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/excursions...](http://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/excursions/americans-
attitudes-smuggling-colonial-america)

~~~
DanBC
BBC Radio Four programme "voices from the old bailey" had an episode about
smuggling.

[http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4sbs](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4sbs)

The BBC website also gives instructions on navigating the Old Bailey Online
website.

------
slowing13
I have a hard time understanding how TJ or lawyers can pretend there is a case
here. Companies cannnot dictate what is legal or not. If you cannot resell a
good that you legally buy, then you kill commerce. And Craigslist can shut
down. Do i need an authorization from manufacturers for my yard sale?
Wondering why it even went to the Supreme Court...

~~~
_delirium
They're alleging a trademark violation in his use of the name "Pirate Joe's"
to sell Trader Joe's products, not that reselling them is itself illegal.

The case that went to the Supreme Court is unrelated to either Trader Joe's or
this guy; the article is just juxtaposing it because it was also a case about
international resale. But it was about someone importing international
editions of textbooks for resale in the U.S., and the main arguments in the
case turned on interpretation of a totally different area of law, copyright
(so it's not really all that relevant here).

------
golemotron
Frankly, I'm stunned by the number of commenters in this thread who imply that
companies ought to be able to prevent resale of their merchandise in order to
control their brands.

What sort of capitalism is this where you don't have ownership rights in what
you buy?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Service economy. That's what happened with software, that's what is happening
with books, movies and videogames, and oh I am so waiting for some CFO to
figure out how to turn groceries into a service.

------
nostromo
People do this on Amazon all the time.

Trader Joes: [http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-
keywords=trader%20joes](http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=trader%20joes)

Ikea: [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?field-
keywords=ikea](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?field-keywords=ikea)

Both on .com and .ca. Note the huge markup.

~~~
mrpollo
thanks for that, I think I'm about to spend some money, Trader Joes + Amazon
Prime == fastest way to get my money

------
marquis
Island nations thrive on this kind of economy: it's called "parallel imports"
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_import](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_import).
Australia and New Zealand would feel like 3rd world nations without this (no
or expensive opportunity to buy foreign goods that have no local
distribution). Amusing to see this on a land border.

~~~
melloclello
It's worth mentioning that now that National have won the election in New
Zealand, it's likely they'll sign onto the TPPA which will effectively ban
parallel importing.

------
SethMurphy
While most see Trader Joe's an upstart grocery chain, it is important to note
they are owned by the founder[s] of Aldi a huge grocery store chain. They were
two brothers (one died recently) who had a very clear world domination plan
with their grocery stores. Essentially they split the globe among them and
each controlled the stores in their territory. Here is the Wiki stating it
better than I could here:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
If I remember, they were one chain and split over the issue of sales of
tobacco and alcohol?

~~~
TheGeminon
I thought they split because the original owner died and left the two halves
to his two sons.

------
jsnk
Canadian consumers need to open their eyes about how their beloved local
retailers and their government are guaging them shamelessly. Canada and US has
pretty much no difference in infrastructure in transportation, yet Canadian
consumers perioidically pay 10% - 20% more than average Americans on consumer
goods. Canadians must start demanding to know why this happens from their
retailers and governments of all levels.

Whether you like it or not, for vast majority of people, consumption power is
THE most important indicator of quality of life, NOT healthcare, NOT social
welfare system and NOT even democratic political system. People's ability to
buy things at will is what regular people care about the most. And yet, this
issue is never on the table. I fail to understand why.

~~~
jarek
> Whether you like it or not, for vast majority of people, consumption power
> is THE most important indicator of quality of life, NOT healthcare, NOT
> social welfare system and NOT even democratic political system. People's
> ability to buy things at will is what regular people care about the most.
> And yet, this issue is never on the table. I fail to understand why.

By never being on the table, isn't the issue by default _not_ what people care
about the most?

~~~
imanaccount247
He didn't say it was what people care about the most, he said it was the most
important indicators of quality of life. Most people don't know the issue
exists, they have no idea how badly Canadians are being ripped off on
virtually everything we buy.

~~~
jarek
> He didn't say it was what people care about the most

How do you interpret the quote "People's ability to buy things at will is what
regular people care about the most"?

> Most people don't know the issue exists

I really doubt this. There are multiple "stuff is more expensive in Canada
than in the States" stories in the media every shopping season.

One possible reason for the issue never being on the table is that it's not
actually that important. Ask Vancouverites about a move to Seattle and food
prices will be a small irritant but nowhere near the deciding factor -
entirely dwarfed on the pro side by jobs and housing prices. Ask Seattleites
what their quality of life is and you'll probably hear about traffic and crime
way before Trader Joe's.

~~~
imanaccount247
I have asked people though. And almost none of them have any idea that they
are paying 25-50% more for everything they buy. I have literally never seen a
story on "stuff is more expensive in Canada" in the media, ever.

~~~
jarek
> I have literally never seen a story on "stuff is more expensive in Canada"
> in the media, ever.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=cbc+canada+retail+prices](https://www.google.com/search?q=cbc+canada+retail+prices)
stories from 2014, 2013, 2011...

If CBC isn't your thing, it was in the Sun too:
[http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/04/bridging-the-canada-
us-...](http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/04/bridging-the-canada-us-price-gap-
too-much-for-tories)

Also we went from jsnk's 10-20% to your 25-50%. If a third person chimes in,
we might learn Canadians pay double.

~~~
imanaccount247
I didn't say they don't exist, I said I have never seen them. And I am not
alone. Like I said, I have asked people. That's the point. I said 25-50%
because that is the correct figure, not because someone else said a smaller
number before. The snark is unnecessary.

~~~
jarek
> I didn't say they don't exist, I said I have never seen them.

Point conceded, possible if you don't watch news.

> Like I said, I have asked people. That's the point.

Anecdotes. Your original claim, "Most people don't know the issue exists",
doesn't follow from "I have asked people" unless you've asked a thousand
randomly selected people.

> I said 25-50% because that is the correct figure

Citation requested.

------
listic
I fail to understand the grey area that grey imports exist in, but I wish I
could.

I live in Russia and e.g. Apple products are notoriously over-priced here, so
lots of local resellers make profit by doing grey imports. iPhones and iPads
imported from practically any other contry turn out to be cheaper, even from
nearby Finland, which, being Euro-zone country, is not cheap by American
standards at all. Note that mobile operators in Russia are not in a position
to subsidize phones, so all iPhones are being bought at full price. Mobile
operators tried to sell iPhones, too, but could not compete and all balked
out, taking great losses. At the same time, prices for most PC hardware seem
to be at about Amazon US level. Bizzare? Sure.

On the other hand, I am a brony and got interested in My Little Pony
Collectible Card Game
[http://mlpccg.wikia.com/wiki/My_Little_Pony_Collectible_Card...](http://mlpccg.wikia.com/wiki/My_Little_Pony_Collectible_Card_Game_Wiki)
(apparently, it doesn't suck? I was at a con in Finland and played with some
enthusiastic fans there). No local stores carry the game here, and the
developer (EnterPLAY) is very reluctantly replying my persistent inquiries.
The best I got from them was:

    
    
        It’s difficult for me to officially support an event
        when I can’t officially sell the game into that country.
    

Exactly what is stopping them from selling the game officially in Russia? Is
it is the lack of interest from the retailers, or some sort of embargo, or
legal obstacle? Maybe I will have better luck 1) buying a couple dozen of
decks on Amazon, 2) organizing an impromptu unofficial tournament in a
friendly board game club 3) convincing a club to start buying the game
themselves and maybe then the developers will take interest and maybe support
this all officially, or just talk to me?

As a fan, the worst I can lose so far is the cost of a couple dozen decks, am
I right?

~~~
T-hawk
Holy Celestia, a fellow MLP CCG brony on HN. We've really got all types here.

The constraint on global distribution is Hasbro, who owns the MLP intellectual
property and chooses to license it out on a per country basis. Enterplay is
not Hasbro and cannot take and sell the MLP characters where Hasbro doesn't
permit it. The Enterplay game developers can't help this, they are far removed
from this situation, it's all at the corporate management level.

Hasbro has an odd relationship with MLP CCG in the first place. Hasbro owns
Wizards of the Coast and is fearful of introducing competition with their own
other successful CCGs.

~~~
listic
Brohoof! Did you read Less Wrong? There's a FiMFiction group for that.
[http://www.fimfiction.net/group/1418/lesswrong](http://www.fimfiction.net/group/1418/lesswrong)
Also, I was there when that science-fiction-y, technological singularity-
touting pony story was written:
[http://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-
optimal](http://www.fimfiction.net/story/62074/friendship-is-optimal)

In other words, you think Hasbro hasn't made up their mind whether they want
to sell MLP TCG in Russia? That's what I thought, too. Though I personally
think it's kinda stupid from the business POV to pay for producing the
intellectual property and not selling wherever possible (look at Apple, I
think lately they maintain their profits just by selling their wares in even
more countries, and even faster) Also, there's much evidence that shows that
companies can successfully sell several similar brands in parallel,
effectively expanding their profits by market segmentation, price
discrimination or whatever. But Hasbro is a big сo., moves in mysterious ways
and has the right to it. What ticks me off is that Enterplay representative
wouldn't (couldn't) even tell me as much as why they can’t sell the game into
my country. Indeed, it took pestering him with repeated inquiries to even
admit that they can't! Enterplay is a small company, and should be
approachable in theory. It doesn't look like they are overwhelmed with demand
for their game and can easily afford ignoring honest inquiries from fans that
wont to help promote it, either. I think I can well be the first Russian (or
one of the few, anyway) to email them. So it almost looks to me like they are
afraid to talk to me because they don't know if they can. The few times they
did reply, they did pretty fast.

Hasbro does license MLP brand in Russia, to some extent: the first couple of
seasons were dubbed and shown on kids' channel (no love from the fans for
that, of course) and the merchandise is selling, too. So I really don't think
there's a reason to not license MLP TCG, when they do already sell other MLP
stuff.

Speaking of which, I haven't up to this moment thought that the situation with
Hasbro or with Trader Joe's can do something with licensing, or that
apparently parallel import _can_ be illegal at all. I guess I naively believed
in the primate of private property and that if you are selling something you
may not forbid buying it (unless it's some kind of regulated thing e.g. guns
or drugs).

All this makes me want to become an anarchist of some sort.

    
    
        Hasbro has an odd relationship with MLP CCG in the first place.
    

Cannot argue with that. Do you know that the reason you don't "tap" cards in
MLP TCG, but "exhaust" them instead is because "tap" is a registered
trademark. Apparently, Hasbro can't or won't allow one of its subsidiaries use
a trade mark of their other subsidiary, even if it's basically their own!
Crazy stuff, right? Finnish fans told me that.

I talked to Finnish fans at Crystal Fair con, who introduced me to the game. I
was a couple of minutes late to the start of the panel and I was used to GDC
(used to take part in Russian one), so when I saw guys confidently explaining
how the game works, I thought they were the developers (that's the way it is
at developer conferences). Turned out, those were the enthusiastic fans who
learned of the game and wanted to promote it in Finland to create a wider
audience, so that Hasbro/EnterPLAY would notice and start selling it
officially, which should drop the prices, bring in official tournaments with
developer-supplied prizes and expand the audience even further; that's their
plan. They arranged the first ever unofficial (draft) tournament in Finland on
the next day of the con. Half the people just heard of the game, like me, and
I found it fun. So I thought: why not try the same in Russia? Only the
situation is one step further removed for me: to the best of my knowledge,
there's no store that sells the game in Russia, so thought of buying stuff on
Amazon myself to get things going. With the ridiculous markup on TCGs in
Russia, I could even break even with all the postage included, if I get lucky.

In Finland, they already had the stores that sell the game, despite not being
released there officially; so they only had to find the one that allows them
to sit and play, and went from there. Here's the store (Poromagia)
representative setting up a stall in Finlandia Hall:
[http://i.imgur.com/WZoJERP.jpg](http://i.imgur.com/WZoJERP.jpg) Everything
sold pretty well, even though half of it was the non-pony stuff.

~~~
T-hawk
This is getting rather off topic for HN. The best place for MLP CCG talk is on
Reddit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/mlpccg](https://www.reddit.com/r/mlpccg)

Hasbro does not produce MLP CCG. Enterplay does. Enterplay is a separate
company that is not a subsidiary of or owned by Hasbro. Enterplay can only do
with the licensed property what Hasbro permits by license.

------
sinwave
If I'm not mistaken, this site has pivoted remarkably since I first visited
it. Didn't it used to be a tool for determining appropriate market prices for
used items?

~~~
hayksaakian
Yes, you are correct

[http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/26/priceonomics-data-
services/](http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/26/priceonomics-data-services/)

------
noonespecial
Usually when someone gets other people to buy millions worth of your product
who otherwise wouldn't it's called _advertising_.

------
dobbsbob
Corner stores in BC are typically selling Costco bought merch from Bellingham.
[http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/video-canadian-shoppers-
sw...](http://www.kirotv.com/videos/news/video-canadian-shoppers-swarm-
bellingham-costco/vDx2N/)

No gov subsidies in Canada for milk/cheese so cheaper to buy American products
at retail price. There was also a ring of thieves in Canada who imported
wrecked cars from the US as scrap metal and ripped the VIN numbers from them,
then attached them to stolen cars to sell. They made est 200 million doing
this over 10 years.

~~~
refurb
My understanding is that cheese is more expensive in Canada because of the
Canadian Dairy Commission. They place quotas on farmers in terms of how much
they can produce to keep the price of milk and cheese high enough so farmers
can make a tidy profit.

 _" The Canadian Dairy Commission is a Crown corporation which was established
in 1966 with the mandate of coordinating federal and provincial dairy policies
and creating a control mechanism for milk production which would help
stabilize revenues and avoid costly surpluses."_

[1][http://www.cdc-ccl.gc.ca/CDC/index-eng.php](http://www.cdc-
ccl.gc.ca/CDC/index-eng.php)

~~~
lucio
how sad. Is there are also Bread Comission? a "Noodle Joint Advisory Task
Force"? Canadians do not see a problem with a committee dictating how much
milk a farmer can produce?

~~~
Zombieball
I believe the US hands out on the order of $3-4B in subsidies to dairy farmers
each year. The Canadian dairy industry is unsubsidized. While dairy costs
significantly more in Canada I suppose the government is still quite happy
with the outcome.

~~~
drpgq
As far as I can tell, the government isn't happy with the situation, but is
terrified of the farmers.

------
NovaS1X
I just moved to Vancouver this month and I only live a few blocks away from
this place. Thanks for the article; I'll go there after work!

~~~
tjradcliffe
Check out the fish place just down the block from it while you're there.
Excellent fresh salmon in-season, and other good stuff too.

~~~
NovaS1X
Will do; Thanks!

------
jonny_eh
What's Trader Joe's problem? Isn't this a good thing for them? They should be
paying the guy!

~~~
sliverstorm
When has losing control of your product & brand been a good thing?

~~~
slowmovintarget
In general, under the law, you lose control of a physical good (product) the
moment you sell it, as the article explains. Your trademark (brand) does
indeed have some legal protection, but Pirate Joe's isn't treading in that
pool.

This is a Good Thing™ because sellers should never be able to withdraw a
product from a consumer's control or have a say in what the consumer is
allowed to do with the product once they've bought it. The moment purchase law
allows that you get companies adding provisions that purchasers aren't allowed
to review a product they've bought or do things like refill a printer
cartridge with other ink (witness the DMCA).

None of these consumer protections causes the company to lose control of their
brand, and neither does Pirate Joe's.

------
hammock
Are there not tariffs or import restrictions that he is subject to? I recall
reading stroies about people taking suitcases full of iPads down to South
American and getting "busted."

~~~
gnopgnip
NAFTA makes most products he is importing free of tariffs

------
ajlburke
One funny side of this is that a fair number of Trader Joe's "house brand"
items have been available as "President's Choice" or "Black Label" in Canadian
Loblaws stores - often both made/imported by SunFresh of Mississauga and then
rebranded.

(Note: I caught onto this several years ago and haven't been to a TJ in a
while - it's entirely possible TJ's and Loblaws have changed their suppliers
since.)

------
crusso
I was just looking the other day to see if I could get Trader Joe's sunflower
seeds online. Their sunflower seeds are far and away the best I've found. I
buy 10 bags at a time whenever I'm at their nearest store that's 30 minutes
away.

I can understand how there would be a niche market for their products in areas
without direct access to the stores.

------
byerley
I know this is a serious site for serious people, but I lost it at the "irate
Joe's" explanation.

------
unclebunkers
I'm confused. I thought if I bought anything, I'm allowed to do with it as I
will? First sale doctrine, which limits the rights trademark holders had over
their products once they've been paid.

~~~
ubernostrum
Nothing in the article says otherwise.

The legal complications are in importing all the stuff, making sure you're not
perceived as confusing/diluting someone else's brand name, complying with a
different country's labeling requirements, and most of all obtaining the goods
since Trader Joe's has the right to refuse to sell to "Pirate Joe's" shoppers.

~~~
unclebunkers
Importing the stuff, complying with Canada's labelling has nothing to do with
Trader Joes. That has to do with the Canadian government, and they don't seem
to get too sticky about stuff like this.

Trader Joes has a right to refuse people who shop there, but again, you can't
sue someone for trying to buy from you. Trespassing perhaps. Stalking?

Which brings us to your point about dilution of a brand. They lose that right
when they sell it. It's called the first sale doctrine. HBO can stop Netflix
from showing Game of Thrones streaming, but they cannot stop them from renting
the video out. So, rather than listing things that aren't valid, could someone
explain why isn't this covered by the first sale doctrine?

~~~
ubernostrum
The first sale doctrine does not let you do business under a name that is
confusingly similar to someone else's trademark.

~~~
unclebunkers
If Pirate Joes is a Trademark violation, then every single small business that
includes a persons name is a trademark violation. Regardless, settle a name
change, and done. My point is there is zero need to be litigious here, and
there is no logical legal justification.

Trader Joeys, clear trademark violation. Pirate Joes, no fucking way. Not in
this country.

~~~
ubernostrum
I think perhaps you should take a remedial course on trademarks.

~~~
unclebunkers
I think perhaps you're not nearly as clever as you think you are.

~~~
ubernostrum
If the store named "(thing) Joe's" builds its entire business on "we sell
Trader Joe's products", there is a very reasonable case that they're confusing
(possibly deliberately confusing) the public about whether they are or are not
an actual Trader Joe's. Which... brings trademark law into play.

So, like I said. Maybe it's time for you to go back to law school.

~~~
nknighthb
It is not plausible that "Pirate Joe's" is confusing. You can't simply discard
"(thing)" and focus on "Joe's", trademarks are taken with their entire
context.

See also, moron in a hurry.

------
slaven
The store is a must visit if you come to Vancouver - it's in Kitsilano so you
get to see one of our trendier neighbourhoods as well.

~~~
frankus
I actually live a few blocks from the Trader Joe's that serves all of Western
Canada (Bellingham), but I'm going to stop by next time I'm up there.

------
vhdlGuru
I don't get it, either - instead of suing the man, they should have just hired
him and extended their business.

------
kinofcain
The hand-written sign in front of the store is priceless:

    
    
        "Grocers Without Borders"

------
doublealpha
Point Roberts, Canada?

~~~
jboy55
Yeah, since I moved down, did Canada invade and take control of the gas
stations?

~~~
sergers
Yes.

Only reason I have nexus pass lol

Oh and my shipping mailbox at tsb shipping

------
jewbacca
jnsk: you are shadowbanned (but solid point)

------
dang
> The headline is inaccurate: no smuggling is involved.

Borderline case, but it's probably ok to use "smuggling" as shorthand for
"importing illicitly".

~~~
TillE
What exactly is illicit about it? Except when used in jest, all of these terms
explicitly suggest illegal avoidance of tariffs. If that's not the case here,
you really shouldn't use them.

~~~
dang
> What exactly is illicit about it?

That it's unauthorized. Let's not pretend this is your average importing
operation. (Not a condemnation; I well know the hardship of having to do
without Trader Joe's in Canada.)

> all of these terms explicitly suggest illegal avoidance of tariffs

"Illicit" does not imply that, which is why I used it.

~~~
stickfigure
Illicit - adj - "forbidden by law, rules, or custom"

Does not seem to apply here.

~~~
dang
Of course it applies. An "illicit affair" is hardly illegal:
[https://www.google.com/webhp#q=illicit+affair](https://www.google.com/webhp#q=illicit+affair).
Any good dictionary will give this to you as a secondary meaning and probably
cite that phrase as well.

But if you really want to understand a word, look at its root. The root of
"illicit" is the same "lic" as in "license"—and unlicensed reselling is
precisely what the story is about.

I'm going to detach this subthread now, to demote it as off-topic without
punishing the root comment.

------
jnaglick
Possibly an interesting article but after reading 4 sentences my central
nervous system liquefied and started dripping out of various orifices.

------
mscarborough
FTA: Hallatt says he still has a lot of respect for Trader Joe’s, and “what
they’re trying to do with food.” He still says he’s running the store out of
love for the label, and, he says, finding Coulombe’s quote is one of the
things that made him persevere through the lawsuit.

Dude, you're doing it for the money. And if a lawyer's quote got you to keep
going in a lawsuit, you're definitely doing it for the money.

Sorry, this entire article is parroting a very well-constructed (but seemingly
BS) storyline. "he still goes to the border", "waits in a white unmarked van",
"he envies cabbies salaries", etc.

His ultimate goal is to bring Trader Joe's to Canada? Just doing it to
advertise for the Trader Joe's label?

Sorry man, you found the grey area you wanted to (self-admittedly within a few
minutes) and then kept going.

~~~
unethical_ban
"Lawyer" -> Founder of TJ's. No shit he's doing it for the money: everyone
tends to do their job, at least in part, for the money. But I think it's very
presumptuous of you to assume he has no loyalty or respect for the brand.

You also seem to think that he's "getting what he deserves", as if what he's
doing is wrong. It isn't.

