
Microsoft quietly rewrites its activation rules for Windows 10 - smacktoward
http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-rewrites-its-activation-rules-for-windows-10/
======
bryanlarsen
I got burnt by this. My insider edition of Windows 10 refused to upgrade, so I
did a clean upgrade, and now I'm stuck with a very limited Windows partition.
I'll probably just wipe it -- I only used it for games anyways, and any game I
care about is already on Linux or is coming to Linux soon (Witcher 3). I could
reinstall my valid edition of XP, but Linux now has better game support than
Windows XP.

~~~
jakejake
This article came exactly 1 day too late for me - I literally just blew away
one of our test machines yesterday morning, only to find I can't activate it
unless I re-install Windows 7. To make matters more fun I chucked the Win7
install disk in the trash thinking, I won't need this again!

~~~
MichaelApproved
You can download the Windows 7 DVD from Microsoft here
[http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-
recovery](http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery)

They used to have it on Digital River but it's been removed from there
[http://www.howtogeek.com/186775/how-to-download-
windows-7-8-...](http://www.howtogeek.com/186775/how-to-download-
windows-7-8-and-8.1-installation-media-legally/)

~~~
jakejake
awesome, thank you!

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vatys
If activation per device is stored online, what does this mean for VMs? What
kind of "device" does a VM look like?

~~~
WalterGR
I'm wondering the same thing.

Even trickier: on a Mac using VMWare Fusion, you can have a Windows partition
that you can both boot into and run as a VM within OS X.

~~~
wila
You cannot run windows 10 upgrade on a bootcamp machine that you also use as a
VM for the moment.

What has been reported to work is to buy Windows 10 license and then you can
use the machine on bootcamp as well as via VM.

More details here:
[https://communities.vmware.com/thread/516838](https://communities.vmware.com/thread/516838)

~~~
jcoby
FWIW I upgraded to windows 10 on my bootcamp partition 100% through vmware
fusion using the official win10 iso.

I got the same error you linked until the latest rollup fix (which put my
install into a boot loop due to nvidia geforce creating a phantom user but
that's a whole different problem).

Once I installed the rollup it gave a different error and then took a day or
two for the activation servers to finally work and activate the install. I
only run windows natively to play games so it only runs for 2-3 hours at a
time.

It took until yesterday to get it all sorted out. I installed win10 within a
few hours of the iso going up.

~~~
wila
That's great news!

Thanks for the heads up.

If possible please also post this at the forum thread that I referred to.

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Damogran6
The only downside...well _a_ downside to this: I repurposed my Vsphere machine
for games. Do you have any idea how long it takes to update 4 year old Windows
7 install media enough that it'll take SP1, IE11 and qualify for the win10
upgrade? (about 350 patches and 6-7 hours)

~~~
nly
You probably don't need to bother with 'reserving' your copy of W10 via the
'Get Windows 10' app. I've been told a fresh, unpatched install of W7 SP1 will
upgrade just fine if you use an ISO.

~~~
dubcanada
You can download the Microsoft Creation Tool and upgrade that way. It's super
easy and only requires the W7. I'm not even sure if SP1 is required.

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tempestn
That last paragraph, if it's correct, answers a question I've had since the
new Windows 10 way of doing things became public: If I have a retail copy of
Windows 7 and upgrade to 10, will I be able to transfer my license when I
eventually upgrade my PC (including motherboard). According to this, the
answer is _yes_. So a retail Windows 10 license (which is what you get if you
upgrade a retail copy of Windows 7 or 8) is apparently good not just for the
life of the device, but for future devices as well. (One at a time,
obviously.)

If true, the retail copies sound like a good deal. Especially while you can
buy a retail copy of Windows 7 and upgrade it.

~~~
foldor
Keep in mind that the free Windows 7 upgrade period lasts for one year only.
So if you upgrade your PC after that period and invalidate your license, you
won't be able to reinstall Windows 7 and upgrade to Windows 10 again. You may
be able to phone Microsoft and explain the situation though.

~~~
jo909
Exactly, so essentially you do NOT get a Windows 10 Retail licence by doing
the upgrade!

You have a Windows 7 Retail licence and what could be called a Windows 10
"OEM" licence. The Windows 7 Retail can be installed to completely changed
hardware, but the Windows 10 "OEM" is bound to the hardware you made the
upgrade on. After the free upgrade period is over, you can't upgrade some
parts of your hardware without buying a real Windows 10 Retail for the full
price.

~~~
qrmn
That is incorrect. From the EULA [§4(b)], it is clear that upgrades from
retail (stand-alone) versions stay retail - and transferable. No exceptions in
there about the one-year qualifying period to upgrade your (now-perpetual)
Windows licence:

4\. Transfer. The provisions of this section do not apply if you acquired the
software as a consumer in Germany or in any of the countries listed on this
site (aka.ms/transfer), in which case any transfer of the software to a third
party, and the right to use it, must comply with applicable law. a. Software
preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device
(and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may
transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with
the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided
with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key. Before
any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies
to the transfer and use of the software. b. Stand-alone software. If you
acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from
software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software
to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a
device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the
software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may
use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came
on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new
device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not
transfer the software to share licenses between devices.

------
eveningcoffee
So MS would give a unique ID to every device Windows 10 is installed on and
track it.

~~~
mtgx
Windows 10 is all about tracking, it would seem.

~~~
scholia
Windows 10 is all about being remotely patched and upgraded for the lifetime
of the device, never having to install (or pay for) a new "big bang" upgrade,
and never being left behind.

Which sounds like a good idea for a billion or so ordinary Windows users.
Obviously there are plenty of geeks who will not like the idea of their PCs
being remotely managed ;-)

~~~
tired_man
Yeah, until a Microsoft update fries millions of computers into an unbootable
state.

Search for "windows update" and "blue screen" or "boot loop" or crashing for
numerous examples.

If microsoft would actually spend money and time (real time and serious
testing, not a few months of continuous integration testing) rather that using
that "good enough to release" philosophy, maybe there would be fewer open
hanger doors for malware to fly through.

~~~
scholia
Yep, it's a big risk. (See reboot loop.) Nobody has attempted anything that
big before....

Otherwise, I don't recall having a Windows Update problem recently --
certainly not this century -- and I haven't seen any malware either.

I'd be willing to bet that the malware problem will be significantly smaller
with Microsoft doing the updating than it is at the moment, even though the
majority of malware problems on Windows are down to human ignorance.

(I _know_ I can run Windows 7 with no AV at all, and I'm certainly not the
only one. I don't recommend it, but I have done it.)

~~~
tired_man
Had microsfot paided the least attention to Dvorak back in the 80's, we might
have been able to bypass all of those lovely "benefits" (read as "ugliness")
that Mr' Gates's tight OS/App integration bestowed upon the DOS world.

I don't let MS do automatic anything on my windows box. I only use that box
for a couple of apps, but when I need them, I really need them and can't
afford to be blindsided by a box that won't boot.

I pick and choose the updates I apply and only then after they've been out in
the wild for a month or so. I'm not going to let microsoft do any alpha/beta
QA testing... errr... I meant "automatic updating," on my production box.

~~~
scholia
Dvorak? Are you serious?

Refusing to install essential updates has cost some companies millions of
dollars, conficker being just one example. I think it's better to install
updates than not, and that someone who did the numbers could probably prove
it.

Otherwise, real geeks keep backups that are tested as working. This is what
separates the men from the boys.

------
manishsharan
Let me share my upgrade story: I decided to upgrade my kid's computer from
Windows 7 to Window 10 and also replace the harddrive with an ssd drive. So I
replaced the hard drive and installed the Windows 10 (home) from an ISO. But
the windows 10 doesn't recognize the existing Windows 7 (home)product key. So
this weekend I will have to put back the old harddrive with Windows 7, upgrade
that to Windows 10, and then put the SSD back in and hopefully the Windows 10
on the SSD will recognize my product key.

~~~
nly
I would take another tac: Install Windows 7 on the SSD and then, transfer over
the existing OEM activation[0], then upgrade it to W10, opting not to preserve
settings and files.

It will only take marginally longer, and you can preserve the HDD in case it
all goes awry

[0] Use ABR beta from [http://directedge.us/content/abr-activation-backup-and-
resto...](http://directedge.us/content/abr-activation-backup-and-restore)

~~~
kchoudhu
And this is the point at which I'd just grab a Linux/BSD LiveCD and be done
with Windows.

------
PhantomGremlin
The article doesn't mention what I think is more of a problem than activation.
It's the ongoing check to see whether Windows is "genuine".[1] This used to be
called Windows Genuine Advantage, then renamed to Windows Activation
Technologies.

Activating is a one-time thing. Either you succeed or you can try again. But
the ongoing check is IMO a serious problem. Basically the software can
deactivate itself on a whim (not really, but it's magic unless you understand
exactly what's happening).

Does anyone know if this is still enabled? Once Windows is activated does it
declare itself "non genuine" unless it's able to phone home? (excluding Win 10
phoning home for spyware reasons, let's not discuss that again).

If so, that's a problem. A Windows computer can degrade its functionality any
time it feels like?

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage#Spyw...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage#Spyware_accusations)

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benguild
So how does this work with identically configured VMs?

~~~
jleahy
Even identically configured VMs have different MAC addresses, etc (otherwise
they'd never be able to communicate via ethernet).

~~~
benguild
Oh that's a good point... but those are usually configurable.

------
PhasmaFelis
I don't want to install 10 right now, and may not want to switch fully in the
next year, but I do want to have a free copy available for the future. How do
I go about doing that? Do I need to fully install it on a spare drive, or can
I make an install ISO that will still work after the one-year grace period?

I apologize for being obtuse. I'm sure this info is in here somewhere, but I'm
not feeling well today and I can't quite wrap my head around it.

------
munr
This new activation process didn't work for me. My Windows 10 upgrade started
doing some weird stuff on my work laptop late last week, so I decided to do a
full format and re-install. When reinstalling, Windows 10 did not
automatically activate (and I couldn't use my old Windows 8 key), so I ended
up having to get a separate Windows 10 key from our BizSpark account.

------
rogerbinns
I'm one of those who experienced (and continue to do so) the useless
"Something happened" upgrade failure on my laptop. I wonder what Microsoft are
going to do closer to the end of the one year of free upgrades. After all it
is their fault I can't upgrade to Windows 10, but unless the upgrade happens I
can't get the free upgrade.

~~~
chrisper
When do you get the something happened?

It helped me to create a USB installer and start the upgrade from there.

~~~
rogerbinns
After you start the upgrade process running. I am doing it from a USB stick.
You can see a screenshot in [http://rogerbinns.com/blog/developers-should-
work-in-support...](http://rogerbinns.com/blog/developers-should-work-in-
support.html)

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outworlder
Well, I lost the key I used to install my windows 8 machine - I built it
myself, it didn't come with a sticker. I was wondering if there was a way to
recover it, but apparently I won't have to bother.

I expect to sell that machine in a couple of months, so it's a better deal for
the buyer, than it is for me.

~~~
X-Istence
Google Search: Recover Windows Key

Brings you to this page:
[http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html](http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html)

It pulls your product key out of the registry for you.

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Paul_S
Microsoft could be found to be sacrificing babies and it wouldn't make a jot
of difference to their bottom line.

~~~
anonbanker
And HN would be filled with Microsoft apologists, saying it was better that
the babies were sacrificed by Microsoft, rather than a FOSS equivalent.

