
The defiance of an 'untouchable' New York subway worker - Thevet
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40702242
======
INvidiA
These sort of class distinctions are much less pronounced in America, which is
why so many oppressed or impoverished people from elsewhere yearn to travel
here and make a new life. It's nice to hear about someone who was able to
realize the American Dream and escape the class prejudice of their home
country.

~~~
dharmach
When societies/individuals achieve high status and realize self-worth, they
usually develop a generous and liberal disposition (not a bad thing).
Unfortunately, when the position is threatened, they may go back to the
survival mode and become intolerant.

~~~
INvidiA
That is very true. Also when societies/individuals don't have a long history
they haven't had a chance to accumulate modes of thinking from the past that
are no longer deemed appropriate but are difficult to shake off once acquired.

------
quantummkv
A better way to allegorize the Indian caste system would be the racism in USA.
No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black
people. Go to the folks from the older generations and in the hinterlands and
you will find that racism still exists somewhat.

A similar trend is present in India. The new kids in urban centers don't care
about caste. The old people in the villages and hinterlands? They do somewhat.

And then you always have the politicians on every side of the spectrum who
artificially inflate caste and race issues for their own gains.

~~~
Blackthorn
> No one in urban centers or in the new generations is racist against black
> people.

I'm sorry but this is just wrong, and you can prove it to yourself by reading
the news any day.

~~~
quantummkv
Well it looks like mistyped that. I meant the majority of the people. You
always have some people with other views.

~~~
azinman2
Racism is not a binary thing. There are always low levels of racism, and they
exist in urban centers most certainly in large numbers. I would say the vast
majority of people are racist to some degree, in that they hold inescapable
prejudice inside. It’s in our society and almost impossible to have it not at
least subtlety enter ones consciousness.

------
mcguire
The child of "college teachers" and a former "researcher in applied physics"
at IIT is now a train conductor with the New York subway?

This is a good thing?

~~~
wmil
Financially it's smarter than being a post-doc or untenured lecturer.

~~~
cscurmudgeon
Any data to back that up? Really curious.

~~~
akgerber
Conductors average $62k/year: [https://bizfluent.com/info-12099370-salary-new-
york-city-tra...](https://bizfluent.com/info-12099370-salary-new-york-city-
train-conductor.html)

It's a decent middle class job.

~~~
scythe
An physics postdoc should pull in 40-60k (mean 49k) without an NYC CoL so I'm
not sure subway conductor is better. Adjunct salaries can be disgustingly low
but that's mostly in the humanities AFAIK.

~~~
bzliu94
What is CoL?

~~~
lfxyz
Cost of Living, I imagine.

------
LarryL
My parents visited India a few years ago, they faced that issue when their
guide refused to enter a coffee shop, when he explained that it was because he
was not allowed to enter because of his caste, they turned back (disgusted)...

~~~
tacomonstrous
One of the main benefits in India of increasing urbanization is the
accompanying anonymity. I would assume this incident didn't occur in a big
city. Did it?

~~~
noobhacker
According to the author of the book being discussed, the caste system is very
much alive in cities [1]. From what she said, it seems like people can tell
your caste by asking a few simple questions or observing your body language.
The caste system persists even among Indians in America.

[1] [https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/sujatha-gidla-
an...](https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/sujatha-gidla-ants-among-
elephants-tyler-cowen-bd11b423ba91)

~~~
tacomonstrous
Discrimination when it comes to housing (just as in matrimony) is still
rampant in India: religion, gender, marriage status, and certainly caste are
all reasons people are regularly denied access to rental properties. I suppose
my point was more about ephemeral commercial activity, like entering a coffee
shop, which was the example that was given in the grandparent comment.

Edit: Fascinating interview, by the way. Thanks for posting it! Loved this
part:

>GIDLA: I will say this: Everybody is dying to know whether I got into
university because of reservations. My answer to them is, “Go ahead and die.”

------
oflannabhra
Tyler Cowen interviews Sujatha Gidla on his podcast, Conversations with Tyler
[0]. Not having heard of her, and not having any exposure to caste societies,
I was struck by the sharpness of her insight and the strength of her
conviction. I highly recommend listening.

[0] - [https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/sujatha-gidla-
an...](https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/sujatha-gidla-ants-among-
elephants-tyler-cowen-bd11b423ba91)

~~~
astrodust
> not having any exposure to caste societies...

Never heard of America?

~~~
oflannabhra
The term "caste" is not used to refer to social stratification. It is more
specific [0].

America has its own ethnic-based social stratification issues, but I think
that opponents of caste systems would say that comparing modern day America,
with its issues, to the entrenched caste system in India is a comparison that
greatly waters-down the oppressiveness of caste and minimizes the challenges
facing its reform.

[0] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste)

~~~
astrodust
It's different in that in places like India you have significantly more layers
and a lot more history. Also a lot more bullshit.

------
quantumofmalice
_Unlike most of her lot, her family was "middle class", thanks to the help of
Canadian missionaries in her region who aided in education and offered them
religion. Her family was thus Christian and benefited with education. Her
parents held jobs as college teachers.

Gidla says that proselytization didn't help her lot. "Christians, untouchables
- it came to the same thing. All Christians in India were untouchable. I knew
no Christian who did not turn servile in the presence of a Hindu."_

Proselytization did help her a lot: it was the reason the christians were
there in the first place.

~~~
mcguire
And affirmative action.

------
fred_is_fred
I must admit that simply from the headline I assumed that this was about a
person who should have been fired multiple times for gross incompetence but
the city could not due to some grievance process gone wrong.

~~~
ubermonkey
RIGHT?

And upon reading it, what a delightful surprise instead!

------
oflannabhra
To everyone whose response to this is "Oh yeah, that's just like racism and
slavery in America." Please consider the following:

Both racism and casteism have similar results. That is, subjugation of certain
peoples, violations of human rights, the preservation of the oppressing class,
death--a whole host of evils.

 _However_ , they have different sources, are codified differently, entrenched
in different cultures, and therefore should be addressed and combated
differently.

Sujatha did not write a book to make people understand that American slavery
(and its continuing echo) is bad. Furthermore, purely trying to understand
Sujatha's story through the lens of American slavery is essentially hand-
waving away the points she is trying to make.

