
Seiko 7S26 for Novice Horologists (2012) - Tomte
http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/
======
aeturnum
I used to collect and restore pocket watch movements. This looks like a really
lovely guide and is the kind of thing that's quite hard to find. Horology
isn't a "very online" kind of pursuit.

One of the challenges starting out is getting watches that were made to be
repaired, but aren't too expensive. It looks like esslinger sells the movement
covered here for $45, which is a great deal[1]. I used to buy old soviet
watches like Molnija[2], which were unauthorized copies of high quality
western movements.

Watches were very much the cell phones of their day! If you enjoy the
evolution of mobile computing you might find them compelling.

[1] [https://www.esslinger.com/genuine-seiko-3-hand-automatic-
wat...](https://www.esslinger.com/genuine-seiko-3-hand-automatic-watch-
movement-7s26-date-at-3-00-overall-height-7-2mm/) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molnija](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molnija)

~~~
paggle
Do you need several-standard-deviation better than average fine motor control
to mess with this stuff? I can't imagine successfully handling any of the
pieces of the movement, so my "repair" skills would be limited to swapping out
the whole thing or using some kind of robotic apparatus to gear down my
movements.

~~~
aeturnum
I had the same concern and that's part of why I got into pocket watches
instead of wrist watches! That said, my experience is that people who repair
watches are no more superhuman than you or I and that it's mostly experience.

>my "repair" skills would be limited to swapping out the whole thing or using
some kind of robotic apparatus to gear down my movements.

Mine too! I never talked to anyone who did repair as a job, but my impression
is that most repair is swapping out broken parts for working ones from other
cannibalized movements. In theory you could fab new parts, of course, but that
would be beyond my skills and experience. Think of it like how people build
computers: they replace components and make sure it all works together.

~~~
paggle
But back in the day people used to make all the parts by hand, right? And they
still have to make parts when repairing old pocket watches, etc... how do they
do it?

~~~
aeturnum
Naw - precise timekeeping evolved with the ability to reliably manufacture
precision components. That's one of the ways in which it parallels cell
phones! There's this whole technology race where material science and
timekeeping mechanism development mutually urge each other on.

I think for larger clocks (like the ones repaired by John in S-Town[1]), hand-
created components were far more common. They were developed as objects that
would be maintained and watched by a large community and less precision was
manageable.

[1] [https://stownpodcast.org/](https://stownpodcast.org/)

------
hanklazard
This looks like a great site. I'd say Seiko's are great movements to learn on
in that their quality is high enough to last and price point is very
reasonable. Even without working on the movement itself, swapping movements
into different watch cases is a great exercise for someone new to watch-
making. I was modding Seiko's for a few years and usually could at least make
a few dollars on Ebay selling them.

The ETA 6497 is maybe one of the best movements for beginners as it is larger
all around and still very inexpensive.

------
timothyduong
This gets submitted by Tomte every 4 months or so:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=clockmaker.com.au](https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=clockmaker.com.au)

------
Aloha
I consider the Seiko V one of the best mechanical watches available for the
price.

~~~
taborj
This was almost exactly the opinion given to me by a watchmaker about 10-11
years ago. He said that if you wanted one of the best, daily-wearable
mechanical watches that wasn't going to be so expensive that you'd be afraid
to wear it everywhere, pick up a Seiko 5.

Which I did. I've worn it every day for the last 9 years, and I love it.

~~~
Aloha
They're extraordinarily durable for what they are, and keep time almost as
well as a quartz watch.

~~~
lightdot
Sorry, but that's just nonsense. Mechanical time pieces that could even
remotely be compared to a quartz in terms of precision and accuracy are few
and far between and Seiko's 7s26 is certainly NOT among them by any means
imaginable...

The truth is, 7s26 is a proper workhorse, but not particularly precise even
when compared to others from the same category.

The 7s26 comes unregulated from the factory and its officail accuracy spec is
an abysmal range of -35 to +45 seconds per day.

In reality, with 7s26 one can expect a daily deviation in the range of 20s
between the 6 positions and the actual accuracy depends quite a bit on your
luck, but is often resonably OK.

They are easily regulated, though... Basic regulation, I mean, nothing fancy.
That still won't make the mechanism precise, but it can make it reasonably
accurate if needed be, in the sub 10s area. Naturally, it will still fluctuate
a bit, day to day, unlike a more precise mechanism would...

Compare that to a Grand Seiko that achieves -3s to +5s daily even under
demanding conditions. These, especially if regulated a bit more, can achieve
sub 1s daily even during longer periods of time... Now that's precise.

BTW, many people confuse the actual precision of a mechanism with the daily
accuracy. Don't. Those are two very different things. :)

Just to mention, older Seiko 5 with 63xx calibres were, in practice, a bit
better then the ones with 7s26, IMHO, especially those sporting a 6319 with 21
jewels. The 6309 were nice too but had a weak spot in their design.

The modern variants of 7s26, the 4r36 and 6r15 (don't let the designations
fool you, it's the same calibre family) are a bit better but still nothing
special. The factory spec for a 4r36 is still the abysmal -35s to +45s daily,
the 6r15 is a bit better but still inadequate, IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I quite like Seikos and also own a few :)

~~~
SamReidHughes
> Don't get me wrong, I quite like Seikos and also own a few :)

As if we couldn't tell :-)

In some ways the 7s26 and 4r36 are kind of nice, in that you can often find a
position to rest your watch at night so that the daily gain is averages out to
zero. But some people with a GS get +9s and can't do anything about it. (They
actually promise -1 to +10 when cased, for 9S65. Kind of disappointing.)

~~~
lightdot
Was it that obvious?? ;) :)

How very true, having such a fine GS and observe it do +9s or +10s per day
would be disappointing.

This is completely individual of course, but I'd really want such a watch to
be regulated to be somewhere in between 0 and +4s, taking owners wearing
habits into account...

A bit silly how a few seconds can make a difference in one's perception of
such an object! Even knowing that the precision is there, still...

Luckily I can properly regulate my watches but not everybody can easily do so
these days. In view of this, pushing the 9s65 spec to +10s when cased really
seems a bit excessive...

------
dev_dull
Really cool site and instructions for an automatic watch. I recently switched
to a manual watch, and I think personally I prefer it more. Winding my watch
is now part of my every day routine and I look forward to it.

I also calculated that each "click" on the wind represents 15 minutes, so when
I wind it up and hear the clicks, I know that's time I'll spend today that I
won't get back, so spend it well!

------
cbm-vic-20
There's a really interesting Twitch stream buy a guy who services watches in
his shop.

[https://www.twitch.tv/mr_horologist](https://www.twitch.tv/mr_horologist)

------
sub7
Just had my 4s15 Alpinist repaired. It's such a great watch - rolex inspired
and the date window is annoying but still.

I'm eager to try the new Astron which is kickass tech in a wearable size for
the first time.

~~~
k_sze
I would totally envy you if you tell me you have the one with the green dial.
Do you have the proper "Red Alpinist" (with the actual "Alpinist" word printed
on the dial) or the "SPORTS 200" version?

I have the other two (proper "Red Alpinists"): cream and black. And I'm just
missing the green one.

~~~
adilmoujahid
It seems that the Alpnisit with green dial will back in production early 2020
with a new movement. [1]

[1] [https://www.seiyajapan.com/blogs/news/the-alpinist-will-
make...](https://www.seiyajapan.com/blogs/news/the-alpinist-will-make-a-
comeback-in-jan-2020)

~~~
k_sze
Yeah, but that won't be the _same_ Alpinist. Especially given the Prospex
logo, which is a bit weird because my impression of the Prospex line is that
it is _mostly_ a diver's line, whereas the Alpinist is supposed to be a
climber's/mountaineer's watch.

After 4S15 was discontinued, Alpinists based on 6R15 have been produced for
many years, but they are nowhere as sought after as the 4S15 version.

~~~
sub7
Sadly it's the cream dial Sports 200.

