
Truecaller puts a face to inbound unknown phone numbers - uptownfunk
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36015547
======
tombrossman
It's a European company so they must be aware of the dreaded 'Data Protection'
rules here. Users opting in to the service should be okay, but scanning and
uploading their entire address books (the pre-selected default) with everyone
else's contact info looks questionable. It's been done though, I know the
Android Twitter app does this (it asks permission after installing and it's
easy to opt-out) so there's probably a way of doing this without getting sued.

If you visit their site and try to search your number to opt-out, you get a
modal asking you to sign in with a Google or Microsoft account - no other
options are provided. In miniscule font, an even smaller tooltip says _"
Sharing is caring, and in the Truecaller community we care about accurate
results. By sharing your contacts with Truecaller, you will receive more
accurate results and help improve the experience for millions of users around
the world."_

It's a tried and tested business model but I'm just not interested in doing
data entry for someone else's silo for a marginal benefit to myself. Maybe I'm
old-school but I'm fine with figuring out who is calling from an unknown
number by simply answering and speaking with the caller.

~~~
toomuchtodo
> It's a European company so they must be aware of the dreaded 'Data
> Protection' rules here.

One man's poison is another man's tea. As a US citizen without any EU data
protections, I envy the EU data protection rules. I don't care if that ruin's
your startup's model.

~~~
seivan
Everyone has their phone number and home address publicially visible. You
can't opt out. Is it the same in the US?

~~~
akerro
>Everyone has their phone number and home address publicially visible

Fist time I hear it. Where?

~~~
orjan
Take a look at hitta.se or eniro.se

Basically, an online phonebook, with reverse lookup, addresses, birthdays,
neighborhood data, ...

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coriny
I think the URL everyone is looking for is
[http://www.truecaller.com/unlist](http://www.truecaller.com/unlist).
Impossible to check if it works though without creating an account and handing
over all your details.

They really should provide a "Is my number listed?" search (and maybe a "Who
do I blame if it is?"). Also, they should probably add some verification you
own the number I guess, since I was able to delist my wife's without question.

~~~
tmikaeld
About a couple of months back it was possible to search for your own number on
their site without an account, but now it's fully blocked and require you to
install their app (and thus give all your info by default if you're on
Android).

EDIT: It seems that they added Google and Outlook account login now, but they
also require all your contacts.

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profmonocle
I was curious if my number was in their system, so I went to their web site.
To do a simple lookup you have to log in with a Google or Microsoft account,
and you have to give it permission to view your Google+ circles as well as
_full access to your contact database_. No, sorry, I am not giving you private
contact info for everybody I know.

~~~
techthroway443
Well if you weren't in their database before you sure are after you allow full
access

~~~
profmonocle
As are potentially all of my friends, family members, and colleagues.

I found this particularly absurd paragraph in their privacy policy[1]:

> Where the Truecaller Apps are obtained from other sources than Apple App
> Store or Google Play, You may share the names, numbers and email addresses
> contained in Your device’s address book (“Contact Information”) with
> Truecaller for the purpose described below under Enhanced Search. If you
> provide us with personal information about someone else, you confirm that
> they are aware that You have provided their data and that they consent to
> our processing of their data according to our Privacy Policy.

So by using the app you not only provide your entire contact database, but
you're saying all your contacts are aware of it and they've agreed to the
policy. I guess before you install it you have to call up everyone you know
and ask if it's okay. It applies to new contacts too - getting a girl's phone
number might be a bit awkward now that you have to ask if she accepts the
privacy policy for a smartphone app you use.

Of course, it only applies if you don't get the app from the App Store/Google
Play - because both of those ban this behavior. However if the app comes pre-
installed with your phone, this policy could easily be baked into the terms
you agree to during setup.

[1]: [http://www.truecaller.com/privacy-
policy](http://www.truecaller.com/privacy-policy)

Edit: I actually didn't find anything in their privacy policy specifically
referring to the web-based search on truecaller.com. Since their policy only
mentions not harvesting your contact info if you use the App Store or Google
Play, I have to assume the worst - especially since I can't think of any other
reason why the web search would need full contact access.

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ChuckMcM
This could have been such a killer app for Google Voice, you make hit *22 or
something after a call to indicate its a spammer/sales/robocall and totally
improve the experience for everyone else who doesn't have to listen even to
the ring.

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pjc50
Doesn't solve the _real_ caller identification problem I have: is this going
to be a marketing call / PPI fraud / robodialler / attempt to social engineer
me by telling me my PC has a virus.

~~~
pbreit
All I want is to know which business is calling. Isn't all that information
public?

Google top results are littered with supposed answers to this question but are
all just SEO tricks without any good info.

I've tried Truecaller several times and it didn't really do what I want (on
iPhone).

~~~
cpeterso
Google has tons of verified public phone numbers for its map products. Android
should be able to do reverse lookups of unknown callers.

This might not work for unlisted telemarketers. To catch those numbers,
perhaps Google could anonymously collect Android users' phone blocklists. That
does not have quite the same privacy concerns as sharing your entire contacts
list with Google. This is the phone number version of Gmail's spam filter.

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Zigurd
"If you receive a call from a number and we can't detect it, then you, as a
user, can actually add that information."

I hope that doesn't mean it has unrestricted access to my contact list.

~~~
fareesh
The app actually came into existence through harvesting data via the contacts
permission. Pretty sure this is still how it works, or maybe they changed
their strategy once they got big enough.

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akerro
That's pretty much why I change my phone number once a year. I don't want
people to put it online in google, facebook, truecaller services. I never
receive spam texts or calls.

~~~
JoBrad
Yeah, but isn't it super annoying to people who want to contact you (family,
friends, etc.)? I haven't changed my cell number in over a decade, and rarely
(if ever) get spam calls (never texts). Seems like a high price to pay for
something that probably won't happen much, anyway.

~~~
akerro
>Yeah, but isn't it super annoying to people who want to contact you (family,
friends, etc.)?

I have different approach to instant communication. Yes, some people complain,
as I live overseas, mostly my parents. Others used to it. I don't want to be
contacted by anyone who has my phone number any time THEY WANT TO CONTACT ME,
so I see no need for them to have my phone all the times. I keep my number
updated for some people, I didn't talk with friends from high school for last
2 years, but I send them text from my new number when I change it, some people
deserve it, some don't. 3/4 of the day my phone is in offline mode, because I
use it only to listen to music and as alarm clock. I never need to topup for
more than £10 per 3months. Give it a try :)

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n72
My number is on some Indian pharmacy's list and seems to have been sold to a
bunch of others. I get at least two calls a day. Formerly on my Android, Mr.
Number successfully blocked the great majority of these calls. Since switching
to an iPhone I installed both Mr. Number and Truecaller, but apparently iOS
doesn't permit these apps intercept the call and simply hang up. Really sucks.
For just this reason I'll probably go back to Android for my next phone.

~~~
paulmd
Yeah, I'm another big vote for Mr Number.

For some reason I would get multiple calls a week (sometimes multiple per day)
from "Walgreens" telling me my prescription is ready - not sure if it's a scam
for personal/medical/insurance info or if someone somewhere mistakenly entered
my number. Leaning towards scam - called Walgreens and asked they delist me,
they said they didn't know anything about it. And at first it was a listed
number, then after I blocked that it started being unlisted, then I finally
just blocked all unlisted callers. It only started after I opened a Bank of
America card, and they're rather notorious for selling their customer info, so
I have my suspicions there.

For some reason Android 4.4 doesn't have the capability to block unlisted
numbers, so Mr Number is fantastic for adding this back in.

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gesman
Just like with IP proxies - it's easy to originate call from Google talk, or
other free calling service to remain totally unidentified.

Best way to filter calls during the meeting - don't pickup the phone and let
caller to leave voicemail. At a first hint of a spammer - just block the
number.

Done.

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vaadu
Useful app, but the latest android version of truecaller(7.x) REQUIRES access
to your contacts. I uninstalled it and found the previous version(6.6) which
only nags you for contacts access.

Bad move truecaller and very rude.

~~~
yoo1I
Not "Bad move". Try "Basics of the operation". How do you think they are able
to collect all these phone numbers ?

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CalRobert
I was using this to log calls in violation of the do not call list for some
time. I meant to sue in small claims, but never got around to it.

Still, it's immensely valuable.

~~~
criddell
Does it somehow resolve spoofed caller id data?

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nutmeg
Truecaller appears to be built into my Cyanogenmod OS. I certainly appreciate
it since ~90% of my phone calls that are not immediate family seem to be spam.

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beachstartup
my solution to this problem is easy.

just don't pick up the phone.

what is compelling you to pick up an unknown call? do you think you're going
to win the lottery or something?

~~~
eitally
The challenge is when you're expecting a call but don't know the number it'll
originate from (doctor's office, school, sports team parents/member/organizer,
plumber, ...).

~~~
whitegrape
What's so bad about prefacing the meeting with "Sorry guys I'm expecting a
call at some point today so if my phone goes off I'll need to leave to answer
it"? Some people must surely be expecting calls from someone of an unknown
number every day individually, but I would be surprised if it was a large
number of people.

