

 DigitalOcean wiped my server because of $6.22  - maxsavin
http://msavin.tumblr.com/post/54063382205/digitalocean-wiped-my-server-because-of-6-22

======
canttestthis
I haven't used Digital Ocean for a while, but if I remember correctly they
sent me _multiple_ notices days before my service was set to expire, asking me
to pay. Once you stop paying for your service, their obligation to store your
data ends.

> If you’re hosting with these guys, make sure to back up your data externally
> constantly.

You should have done this anyway.

~~~
maxsavin
I hear you on that, but a suspension would have been more reasonable. Suspend
the account and give me 3 days to repay or something. It's good business for
them because they would keep me as a customer, and its a real alarm to me.
They did not mention deleting data anywhere.

------
bigiain
So there's no argument that there was an amount overdue by some time? Even if
the amount was $6.22 and the time may have only been a few days?

What are "fair" assumptions to make about how long a hosting company waits
before wiping a server? I'm a happy DO customer, and while I'd hope there
might be some "grace period", the only _sensible_ assumption I can make is
"they won't wipe my servers/storage while I'm fully paid up", the consequence
of which is "I assume as soon as my account goes overdue there's a very real
risk that my server/data might vanish", and I manage my
payments/creditcards/off-site-backups with that in mind.

In my mind, "instant provisioning" and "pay by the hour" servers are
inherently ephemeral, and should be expected to vanish as quickly after
payment starts failing as they appear when you provision them.

And, with a pedagogical level of snark:

"I’ve been using different hosts since I was 16 and never had any experience
like this. Now, three websites, tons of projects, and months of edits and
content is gone."

I hope that's been an interesting six months for you - welcome to the real
world...

------
mvanveen
I definitely think both sides of the situation have a good point. I'd just
like to take the opportunity to point out that I've been less inclined to use
Digital Ocean because their invoicing system is rather spammy and has a hair
trigger on sending unpleasant emails. Even when I add surplus funds and pay on
time, it seems, I get waaay too many invoicing emails from them.

I understand these guys are running a subscription service and that they need
as high a percentage of on-time subscriptions as possible, but changing
payment details are a fact of life, especially when you accept one-time paypal
payments. A lot of the people who use their services are hobbyists, and while
I'm not justifying my or anyone else's late payment, I think that any service
provider in this game should definitely account for such factors.

I'd certainly hope that they take this into account when they offer the
pricing that they've provided; I'd be willing to pay a little bit more for
DigitalOcean every month to not be harangued and to feel confident that they
aren't going to go under if I don't pay them.

Something as simple as slightly more friendly messaging would go a long ways
towards making me feel better about using their service long term. Amazon
AWS's messaging about a missed payment, for example, is very relaxed, patient,
and assumes 0 blame. Missing payment isn't always something people do on
purpose; sometimes it's a genuine mistake and penalizing that person unduly
can put a strain on customer relations.

------
astevens
"I didn't pay my bill, and my vendor shut down my service"

Is this really a surprise? Do you also get frustrated when your laptop runs
out of battery and won't keep working, or how your car doesn't understand that
you'll get gas tomorrow if it just keeps going?

~~~
maxsavin
They didn't shut the service down, they wiped the server. They could have
suspended it and given me a few days to restore. This is sort of like "I
didn't pay my phone bill on time, so my carrier removed my phone number".

------
tyw
DO's policy aside... to be fair, having a single server (virtual, no less) be
the only copy of anything is pretty much asking for it.

~~~
bigiain
You know what they call data you don't have backed up, right? It's called
"data you don't want".

(And remember - S3 is not a sufficient backup for your EC2 storage - they're
both susceptible to problems with your ASW account. Get that stuff onto disks
you own as well, or at least onto a different could storage provider paid with
a different credit card. Or at very least, have multiple funding sources in
your AWS account, and enable 2FA on your logins)

------
citricsquid
This guy is at fault of course but interestingly the DigitalOcean terms of
service suggest this should not have happened. The terms repeatedly use
"terminate" and "suspend" to mean delete / disable, with regards to payments:

    
    
        Arrearages
    
        3.3 Payments not made within ten (10) days of invoicing will be deemed 
        in arrears. For accounts in arrears. If any amount is more than ten days 
        overdue, DigitalOcean may suspend service and bring legal action to collect
        the full amount due, including any attorneys fees and costs.
    
        Suspension for Nonpayment
        
        3.4 DigitalOcean may suspend some or all Services to User for failure 
        to make timely payment.
    

That seems to suggest they would have suspended his services for non-payment,
not terminated.

[https://www.digitalocean.com/tos](https://www.digitalocean.com/tos)

~~~
canttestthis
I think 'suspension' and 'termination' refer to accounts, not virtual servers.
If your account is terminated, its no longer in the system and you won't be
able to create any new servers regardless of payment status. If your account
is suspended, you can still create new servers after paying for them, but all
existing servers are destroyed. The email OP posted on his webpage confirms
this too.

------
yogo
I think the time the account was past due is important here. I know Linode
gives 10 days (IIRC) but I'm not sure about DO. I did have a DO account go
past due over a holiday weekend where I wasn't paying much attention to email
notifications (I have a dedicated card that I only put small amounts of money
on for online use) but luckily I didn't suffer this fate. I don't think it's
unusual to have something as low as 3 business days until an account gets axed
in hosting though.

~~~
joaoyc
I didn't jump on the digitalocean bandwagon after the linode incident and
surprisingly I'd a similar situation but with a positive outcome: Had U$20
past due for close to 20+ days due to my credit card being blocked (was
stolen), and Linode proceded to remove the server. Once I paid what was due,
they recovered the machine in no time.

------
DanBC
> Warning about an outstanding balance and the destruction of your server are
> two very different things.

Does this mean that max did get warnings about the outstanding balance, but
ignored them? And it was suspension of the account that caused max to notice,
and then pay?

I'm not going to mention the lack of backup stuff because almost everyone
learns the lesson by losing important data at least once.

EDIT: Don't forget to try the wayback machine.

------
wyck
They should have a better grace period, they are afterall a hosting company
and this really affects trust with users. I would pay extra if there was a
checkbox to enable a 30 day grace period (snapshot, not a live site) because
sometimes stuff happens in real life where you are not able to check your
email/credit card.

At the very least let users download the snapshots that they pay for.

------
dibbsonline
That's the expected behavior of IaaS. Sorry you learned the hard way.

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AustinLin
In fairness if your not paying the bill why should they continue to provide
services to you (including storing your VM image).

Hopefully you have your code backed up on github and data on s3 or something
similar.

------
Narkov
So restore from backup...right? You did have backups didn't you?

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joshmn
Should post this on WebHostingTalk.com to get their attention.

Also, you may not be completely SOL... IIRC they take a snapshot before they
destroy it. Not sure if that applies to this situation, but I could see it
happening.

Fingers crossed.

~~~
maxsavin
Nope, no snapshot.

~~~
slaxman
did you take a snapshot or have automatic backups enabled?

