
I Sing the Airplane Electric - prostoalex
https://www.flyingmag.com/story/aircraft/technicalities-sing-airplane-electric/
======
atourgates
A bit more info on the specific setup here:
[http://sustainableskies.org/sas-2019-gabriel-devaults-
clean-...](http://sustainableskies.org/sas-2019-gabriel-devaults-clean-
commute-electric-adventures/)

Apparently, the entire setup is doable for less than $40K. Given the right
circumstances (like, an airport at both ends and living in a place with
generally nice, warm weather), it could be a fantastic tool for an affordable,
fast commute.

Here's another story by Gabriel about completing a 100-mile journey:
[http://inspire.eaa.org/2020/01/09/99-miles-on-
batteries/](http://inspire.eaa.org/2020/01/09/99-miles-on-batteries/) (with
recharging stops).

It looks like the maximum range of his setup is 60-miles, but with what he
considers a "safe" amount of margin, he limits his trips to 40.

~~~
Shivatron
> ... it could be a fantastic tool for an affordable, fast commute.

I understand the attraction to owning your own plane and buzzing merrily above
the wheel-bound masses below on the daily, but I have to think it's a bad idea
(avgas or electric). I think of all the times I've overslept, needed to be at
the office unexpectedly, forgot to put some air in the car tires, should get
that warning light looked at, etc... phrases that are usually at the start of
an NTSB report.

The beauty of airlines and charters is that you're paying them, at least in
part, to tell you "no, we're not flying right now." Turns out it can be hard
to do for yourself when your job depends on it.

~~~
prostoalex
I think the grand idea is that with improvements to battery density and weight
this will spill into commercial aviation market.

Small electric planes with lower per-hour operating costs are also a game-
changer for flight schools and their students. Cheaper pilot licenses should
translate into increased supply of qualified labor and lower the costs of
starting/operating an airline.

~~~
r00fus
I am guessing the EV trainer companies have already addressed - but it's not
clear to me:

How similar are EV airplanes and ICE powered ones? Aren't there a number of
factors that vary from motive power and availability to weight/form factor
that make training on an EV not sufficient to training on "the real thing"?

~~~
bdamm
EV airplanes are simpler to fly than a gas powered one, so it could be great
for a new student who mostly wants to focus on the actual flying and not so
much on how to manage the engine. The current market leader, Pipistrel, is
selling an EV airplane that is the same airframe as their gas trainer. So the
path for students to transition from the EV plane (local airport circuits and
learning landing and takeoff) to cross country (flying long distance, learning
judgement about weather, understanding navigation, managing the engine, human
factors) is no issue in terms of actual airplane controls and familiarity.

------
rhombocombus
There is a combination of increasing energy density of batteries and
decreasing cost of high tech motors that I believe is a bellweather for
electric flight experimentation, particularly on the LSA/ultralight end of
aircraft. While I believe it is unlikely we will see energy densities on the
level of gasoline anytime soon, I do think we will see a lot of innovative
electric training aircraft soon. If lithium sulfur batteries live up to the
hype then we might see even cooler designs.

~~~
DoofusOfDeath
By training, do you mean for training beginner pilots? I would think there's a
lot of benefit from learning on aircraft similar to what you'd pilot post-
training.

~~~
GuB-42
Managing the engine is not the most important part of flying, especially for
ultralight aircraft. And in fact, the best pilots tend to be also experienced
glider pilots.

Also, one specificity of ultralight flying, or at least the way I was taught,
is to not trust the engine, no matter how reliable it is supposed to be. One
aspect is to make the final approach unpowered. Of course, the engine is still
running, but ideally, you should pull the throttle all the way back and leave
it here, as if the engine had failed. This is in contrast to the 3° slope
commonly taught in general aviation.

Of course, a pilot who only flew on an electric plane needs some time with a
flight instructor in order to learn the quirks of gas engines, but that should
be quick compared to the time it takes to actually learn how to fly.

~~~
generatorguy
There are no go arounds in a glider!

------
ogre_codes
One of the biggest reasons I gave up flying is due to the extremely expensive
nature of the hobby. Something like this with its sub $2/ hour cost would be
very appealing to me. Also since it's an ultralight with a steep rate of
climb, I might be able to take-off and land on my driveway.

I'm particularly curious about how this would work with a hybrid glider or
other aircraft with long glide paths where you could use the electric to get
up to elevation and glide the rest of the flight.

~~~
sokoloff
I spend more than $2/hr on my prop maintenance and over $1/hr on tires (and
that’s for several hours average per flight). I’m skeptical that electric
propulsion will revolutionize basic aviation training or reduce the costs to
make it a commonplace activity as it appears to have been in the heyday of the
60s and 70s, which was well before my time.

~~~
ogre_codes
Yes, I'm greatly overstating the costs involved. But reducing the fuel cost
from $35/ hour for a Cessna burning 10 gallons/ hour to burning $3-5/ hour
worth of electricity would be a pretty big deal.

~~~
sokoloff
A C172 rents (including fuel) for $155/hr with steam gauges and $175/hr with a
glass panel at my local flight school. Way less than half of that is fuel, and
no one's getting rich leasing C172s to flight schools.

I think you might see rentals come from $155/hr to $125/hr. I doubt you'd see
them go under $100/hr, and I'm not sure that's enough of a difference to drive
a material increase in student traffic or affordability.

Believe me, I wish it would. I started flying almost 25 years ago and it was
much nicer when the airports were busy and when trade professionals (plumbers
and electricians) could afford to fly. Now, I mostly see doctors and tech
people at the airport as new student starts and that's not enough to really
sustain vibrant airport businesses.

~~~
ogre_codes
Last time I rented I was renting a Cessna Wet at about $85/ hour as part of a
club. Fuel costs were about half of that.

Engine overhauls every X,XXX hours was another, but I'm not sure if you need
an engine overhaul on an electric plane. How does battery replacement stack up
against fuel tank replacement/ leaks? This is all up in the air, but based on
the difference in ICE car maintenance versus electric, I'm pretty optimistic
that there will be more savings than just the actual fuel costs.

But even you ignore other potential savings, just fuel savings alone drops
prices by 35% using your numbers which is a pretty big savings.

------
anonymoustarget
Here's an electric trainer you can buy-

[https://electricflyer.com](https://electricflyer.com)

The founder (a fighter pilot) originally built a civilian fighter jet with
Israel Aerospace Industries years ago. He also built an advanced solar
electric UAV which DARPA is using to "ambitiously" try to recharge drones with
a laser.

~~~
scribu
You mean pre-purchase. No word on the final release date.

------
p1mrx
> You have to be careful of people standing around because when the master
> switch ... is on, the motor ... can silently spring to life at an
> inadvertent bump of the throttle.

The commercial version of this should probably "idle" the propellers at 30 RPM
or something... fast enough to notice, without burning much power.

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kumarvvr
Is it not possible to add an efficient internal combustion engine, couple to a
generator, lower capacity batteries and an electric motor to power these
planes?

Battery energy density is very less, but having a constant speed small,
optimised IC engine to generate electricity from fuel could increase range and
capacity of these planes.

~~~
0x8BADF00D
If it's an ultralight, why do you need an ICE? All of this will add weight and
impede your ability to glide.

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cagenut
throwing a zero powertrain into a thundergull is exactly the kind of shit i'd
do if I were one decimal place richer.

------
addHocker
I think we are doing something very wrong with electric airplanes- namely, the
idea, that you have to have one craft that has to archieve vtol lift off. My
Question: Why? Why not a tug drone, that gets a plane up to altitude in a VTOL
way, fly with full battery capacity and then land with a rotor arrest like a
helicopter - with the tug long detached and returned.

~~~
bencoder
That's a cool idea. Though I see no need to make it VTOL. A simple tug plane,
like a glider tug but for passenger aircraft. Really nice thought!

~~~
Leherenn
The issue is that if you cannot take off yourself, you cannot abort a landing.

So if you have to keep it, you're trading a bit of efficiency for a lot of
complexity.

~~~
_Microft
The tug could be more like a powerbank. It would not physically pull the
aircraft up but assist by providing power. The aircraft _could_ launch on its
own but it is advantageous to use a tug because this increases the range or
energy reserves that the aircraft itself has.

(outline of a launch: aircraft and tug are connected by cable before launch,
both lift-off, gain altitude, cable is detached, aircraft moves on and tug
returns to launch site)

~~~
Leherenn
Except you probably have another aircraft already landing, the slots are
tight. Maybe you could have another shorter landing strip just for the tug,
but again, that seems like a lot of complexity (i.e risk) for maybe a 20%
increase in efficiency at best.

~~~
_Microft
Like in the other comment in this subthread, I had vertical take-off and
landing vehicles in mind.

