
Australian Government Scrambles to Authorize Mass Surveillance - sinak
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/09/australian-government-scrambles-authorize-mass-surveillance
======
andrewstuart
Prime Minister Abbott needs to whip up hysteria and panic to try to distract
people from his government's incredibly poor performance and disastrous
budget.

A nice solid war along with deep fear mongering should regain control of the
media message.

I simply don't believe we are under threat of attack from knife wielding
beheading terrorists.

The poor kid who died the other day was probably just mentally ill but its to
Abbott's great advantage to be able to point and say LOOK, BEHEADING
TERRORISTS IN OUR SUBURBS COMING FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, WE NEED TO RAPIDLY
REMOVE YOUR LIBERTIES AND PRIVACY!

The first Iraq cured me of any belief in what governments ask citizens to
believe.

I feel deep terror at what our government will do to us.

The good news for Australians is that Tony Abbott has decided that we are no
longer getting a fibre to the home national broadband network because that was
too expensive, HOWEVER thankfully we are getting 86 F-35 Joint Strike fighter
aeroplanes. [http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-to-approve-
austr...](http://www.news.com.au/national/tony-abbott-to-approve-australias-
biggest-ever-military-purchase-of-stealth-fighter-jets/story-
fncynjr2-1226851684344)

~~~
grecy
I've been out of Australia for many years now, though I always figured I would
go home to raise a family one day.

Everyone I talk to now says it's getting destroyed by Abbott and his policies.
Less sending on Health, Education. Privatized university loans (with interest
- even for those with existing HECS debt), very overreaching surveillance.

I hate to say it, but it might not be worth going back after Abbott has had
his way...

~~~
aragot
Talking about university loans, let's take a minute to share and contemplate
the awesome system I've discovered in Australia: You can borrow money from the
govt for your studies. The interest rate is only equal to the Consumer Price
Index. You repay your debt through taxes after you start working, and your
taxes are capped to something like 45% of your income.

Which means, if your studies don't land you a good job, you're not choked on
the spot by banks. And it still transfers more responsibility to the student
than subsidizing education to make it free.

[http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertiary_education_fees_in_Au...](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertiary_education_fees_in_Australia)

More countries should copy the same system for education loans.

~~~
grecy
Absolutely, I personally think it's one of the best things about the country.

After living and working for a year and a half in the US, and 7 years in
Canada, I've seen first hand the impact of charging for university, and how it
impacts people lives for decades.

I met tons of people that chose not to go to university simply because they
couldn't afford it. I was shocked and saddened that happens in developed
countries.

I have tons of 30-something friends that are _still_ paying interest only on
their student loans, and it's crippling their life choices.

I really hope we can kick Abbott out before he does much more damage.

Are people in Australia seriously talking about getting him removed? Does
anyone even know what the process is in Australia to remove a Prime Minister?

~~~
ecdavis
> Are people in Australia seriously talking about getting him removed?

No.

The political climate in Australia has seriously deteriorated over the last
decade and much political discourse is now indistinguishable from hysteria.
The criticism being leveled at the Abbott government from progressives is
very, very similar to what conservatives were saying about the Rudd/Gillard
governments of the last 6 years - they're destroying the country, they don't
represent the people, etc. Since the Internet is, in general, a more
progressive place you're being exposed to a lot more of this hysteria than you
would've been previously.[0]

> Does anyone even know what the process is in Australia to remove a Prime
> Minister?

The proper, established process is a Federal election. They happen every three
years, and they give the electorate an opportunity to renew a government's
mandate or to remove them from office as they see fit. At the last election,
Tony Abbott was selected to be Prime Minister. He may or may not survive the
next election, we shall see.

The new attitude in Australian politics of "I don't like this government -
they should be summarily sacked" is despicable and anti-democratic. It seems
to have infected both progressives and conservatives alike. It shows a
complete lack of respect for the democratic process when one side decides that
- since they don't like the new government's policies - they will simply
ignore the fact that the government was duly and lawfully elected by the
people. The dismissal of a government[1] is an extraordinary event that should
only take place under extraordinary circumstances. The current circumstances
are not extraordinary - progressives don't like a conservative government,
what a surprise.

I don't agree with a lot of Mr. Abbott's policies, but as the Prime Minister
of the country he should be afforded some respect. I will happily voice my
disagreement with him, but I will not call for him to be dismissed. I will
wait until the next Federal election and exercise my democratic rights then.

[0] Although it's an unpopular opinion, the conservatives had more reason to
call for the Gillard Government's removal, as the hung parliament really
placed the legitimacy of her mandate in question. Nonetheless, I think these
types of criticisms are silly and hysterical coming from both sides.

[1] As another commenter mentioned, the Governor-General can dismiss the
Government and trigger an election. This has only happened once, when the
Whitlam Government was unable to pass supply bills through the Senate. This
resulted in something similar to the US government shutdown that was
experienced recently. This was a dark day in Australian politics and not
something we should be eager to repeat - certainly not when the government is
functioning (even if what it is doing is not particularly popular). "Well may
we say 'God save the Queen' \- because nothing will save the Governor
General."

------
zmmmmm
I am not normally one to put on a tin foil hat, but all the events of the last
week seem so orchestrated that it is hard not to be cynical. Security agencies
facing the sunsetting of powers granted after 9/11 "suddenly" discover all
these threats _the very same week_ that laws are due to be voted on. There
seems to be almost no evidence against individuals raided, only one arrest and
that on the basis of some intercepted conversations where the idea of
attacking someone was mentioned (and all this, we are taking on faith from
security agencies themselves which have a massive vested interest in getting
new laws passed). Even if you interpret the threat literally, _one_ individual
was proposing to attack _one_ Australian - for this we need to discard our
basic freedoms protected for hundreds years (deriving from the magna carta no
less)?

I think there ought to be a moratorium on passing any new laws until there is
_not_ any current terrorism scare, it is exactly _not_ the time to be making
rash judgements about what laws we need.

~~~
TerraHertz
"all the events of the last week seem so orchestrated that it is hard not to
be cynical"

Uh... make that the last 51 years. If you only just noticed, you're not paying
attention. And I only say 51 years from picking an arbitrary point (JFK
assassination) for when the deep state's evil ways became _really_ obvious.

"If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased
down the streets and lynched." \-- George Bush, cited in the June, 1992 Sarah
McClendon Newsletter

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the
American public believes is false." \-- William Casey, Director of Central
Intelligence. An observation by the late Director at his first staff meeting
in 1981. This observation reveals the mentality of cynicism which infests the
US Federal control structures, and the reality that these structures regard
the American people with total contempt.

~~~
someone234
> This observation reveals the mentality of cynicism which infests the US
> Federal control structures, and the reality that these structures regard the
> American people with total contempt.

Yeah, I wouldn't call plans to brainwash and mind-fuck 330 million people a
"mentality of cynicism". Contempt is not quite enough either. How about "evil,
malicious hostility"?

------
thomasfromcdnjs
The "Stop The Spies" campaign will be launching prematurely in light of this
news.

Here is the website design we were trying to achieve ->
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByT3WMbCYAEsFcA.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByT3WMbCYAEsFcA.jpg:large)

Expect it to be launched today or tomorrow.

When the campaign website launches, we need to generate numbers for the press,
so make sure you take all the action available on the site.

In the mean time follow our lonely social media accounts to stay up to date
with the campaign

Twitter: [https://twitter.com/stopthespies](https://twitter.com/stopthespies)

Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-The-
Spies/35499951465040...](https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-The-
Spies/354999514650401)

\-----

The government nearly passed the first bill in one day, this caught us by
utter surprise. And the legislation proposed sets no upper limit on the number
of devices in a network that they can monitor, meaning without oversight, they
could potentially monitor every device in Australia with a single warrant.

The bill containing the mandatory data retention proposals will be hitting the
senate next week and we imagine that it might get very little opposition like
this first bill.

The only opposition to the bill is from the Greens and one LDP member so there
is but a flicker of hope. But I imagine if we can at least delay these
proposals, a more lively debate may spring up and pressure may be placed on
legislators to reconsider their positions.

It is in the best interest of journalist to write about these bills at the
moment because it highly affects them.

Personal thanks to Sen. Ludlam for delaying the bill yesterday!

------
pserwylo
I find it greatly concerning that laws are passed with such haste, and then
justified by very recent events. To clarify, the two recent events which seem
to be frequently cited by the law makers is:

* An anti-terrorism raid across two states, which charged one person and questioned several others. This happened a couple of weeks ago.

* A tragic incident in which an 18yo stabbed two police officers and then was shot dead. This happened a few days ago.

I fail to see how any of the provisions in the new laws are able to be
justified by either of these events.

Firstly, the anti-terrorism raids worked seemingly well without the yet-to-be-
passed-laws. They successfully used existing laws to thwart a plan that
allegedly involved the beheading of random members of the public.

Secondly, no amount of surveillance or detaining will stop a determined
individual from being able to stab somebody who is standing right in front of
them.

So as troubling as these two events were, it is also troubling that they are
being used in this manner by politicians of both major persuasions.

~~~
feralmoan
Yeah, Nah. Abbot just learnt what a 'False Flag' operation was and is trying
it out so he can feel like a big boy.

------
NamTaf
For the record, the recent 'terrorist threats' involved an apparent plan to
kidnap random citizens off the street and behead them on camera, then send the
footage to ISIS for subsequent release.

The raid to stop said threats involved ~800 police officers across multiple
states. Its result? Two people charged, with only one having anything to do
with terrorism.

Just about every ounce of effort was put in to drumming it up as 'averted
disaster at the last moment', yet very little effort was (probably
intentionally) made to mention that the mobilsation of over 800 police
resulted in the arrest of exactly 1 person on terrorism-related charges.

This is undoubtably an opportunistic move on the back of marginal news. It's a
travisty and it will pass without much debate because both parties give
approximately no care whatsoever about preserving individual freedoms and
privacy, and every care about eroding those rights for increased capacity to
monitor and police the public.

~~~
stephen_g
I think it's actually been pretty shameful how they've been milking everything
they can for all it's worth - first the MH370 disaster, where for some reason
it was Abbot on camera every night making announcements every time they found
a tiny piece of debris off WA (probably none of which was related to the
incident at all in hindsight), and then their going on and on about the
Russia-Ukraine conflict, despite the fact we have absolutely nothing to do
with it...

Now, we have this 'huge terror threat', milking the IS conflict in Syria and
Iraq.

------
retrogradeorbit
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works
the same way in any country." \-- Hermann Göring

That'll be next. Any one who stands in opposition to these bills will be
"exposing the country to danger".

~~~
the_rosentotter
"You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war." \-- William Randolph Hearst

Every war in recent history has been preceded by massive, concerted media
propaganda. World War I was extreme in this regard. The monopoly situation on
mass media has not improved since then.

~~~
dublinben
It's been dizzying to watch the propaganda surrounding IS in order to drum up
support for a new war. From the very beginning, with their characterization as
"too extreme for Al Qaeda" this has seemed highly orchestrated.

------
artichokeheart
It's not a surprise really our streets are literally awash with headless
corpses

~~~
eksith
What do you mean by this?

~~~
seventytwo
He means that people have to wade through a seething froth of semi-coagulated
blood, hair, and brains while on their morning commute. Obviously due to the
extreme terrorist threat arising in Australia to warrant such an equally
extreme response as streamlining mass surveillance.

/sarcasm

~~~
bwldrbst
It's true. I was late for work today but at least I got a seat on the train.

------
contingencies
One of my more recent contributions to Wikipedia was a 'Mass Surveillance in
Australia' page:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_Australia)

------
Narkov
Surely it's inevitable that everything will be surveiled. The quicker we
realise this and "encrypt all the things" the better.

What's the point in fighting legislation when you can solve the problem with
technology? If the technology doesn't exist now then this stupid legislation
should spur it on.

~~~
krapp
I think that unless the 'problem' that encryption is meant to solve is the
existence of governments themselves, then it doesn't make sense to write off
engagement with the political process altogether.. "encrypt all the things"
only works if you somehow have the power and influence to make all the
companies do all the work to encrypt all the things (against their own gain in
some cases.) Without some kind of political pressure, or even better the force
of law, or at the very least a bully pulpit to convince people that it's a
good idea, I wonder if it's necessarily tenable. You can always do both
anyway.

------
DrTarantism
I think that the Government is manipulating the people and that these new laws
will certainly be abused. I think that it is up to the entrepreneurial
community to come up with solutions to help mitigate the situation. This can
be achieved on several levels.

1\. Help whistle blowers deliver material to overseas journalists 2\. Create
stronger security for journalists and whistle blowers to communicate 3\. Find
ways to better engage the public in the politics of today so that better
political parties can thrive in the future and strengthen our constitution

------
thomasfoster96
'straya!

I'm not sure how to feel about Australia's response to ISIS. The right-wing
side of politics seems to be going completely over the top in trying to crack
down on terrorist cells operating in the country (we did just have two
policemen stabbed in what appears to be a terrorism-linked beheading attempt),
arguing that security is more important than freedom.

Then we've got the left wing side of politics, which is trying to do all it
can to downplay the risk and argue that there is literally a 0% of an attack
on Australians, despite an incident just days ago and dozens of Australians
having travelled to fight in the Middle East who may return.

~~~
1stop
I don't think there has ever been a "Terrorist" attack in Australia that has
targeted "White Australians". I make that qualification based on the fact that
a number of foreign embassies have been attacked within Australia, but that is
quite a different thing.

How was the stabbing "terrorist-linked?" And how is people travelling to the
middle east (even to fight), terorrist linked?

~~~
cromulent
Would you classify the Russell St Bombing as terrorism?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Street_Bombing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Street_Bombing)

Edit: or maybe the Sydney Hilton bombing.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_Hotel_bombing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Hilton_Hotel_bombing)

~~~
1stop
So you found the 2 events that are different. Total death toll: 4 people (not
to trivialise their deaths).

Neither of those times did we raise a 'threat level' (it is difficult to see
if there was even a 'threat level'). So actual bombs going off in our streets
don't cause panic. But crazed (brown) teenagers in police stations... Quick
call the SAS!

There is something very off here.

------
vijaykumar13
Aaahh tried and true, good strategy, First scare the shit out, and then tell
them(people) we are here to protect you, look we need to come into your house
now, so that we can save you.

~~~
estebank
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu_30-8ZlmQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu_30-8ZlmQ)

"I wan't everyone to remember why they need US!"

------
jsmeaton
So Bill Shorten (the leader of the opposition) is my member of parliament.
I've written him to ask that he helps to slow the process down and read the
recommendations of the joint committee. Not sure what more I can do here :/

~~~
prawn
Here is all you need to know about government and opposition in "times like
these" \- a satirical piece from The Shovel:

Labor Party To Close Down Until After Iraq War:
[http://www.theshovel.com.au/2014/09/23/labor-party-to-
close-...](http://www.theshovel.com.au/2014/09/23/labor-party-to-close-down-
until-after-iraq-war/)

 _On hearing the news, Prime Minister Tony Abbott said, “Until this war
concludes, we’ll just have two parties saying the same thing, so it makes
sense to put one away for now”.

Labor leader Bill Shorten later released a statement saying “Until this war
concludes, we’ll just have two parties saying the same thing, so it makes
sense to put one away for now”._

~~~
RubyPinch
> Here is all you need to know

4 sentences

I mean, I know some love to think that a blog / tv show full of snarky jokes
gives a hint of political driving forces behind decisions, or, you know,
anything political in the slightest

but they don't, they are just snarky jokes

~~~
prawn
You don't think it's an accurate remark about how dangerous it is politically
to oppose a war drummed up to drive fear into the public? About how major
parties lock step in times like these?

"Soft on terrorism", "Can't defend our shores", etc. Huge political risk to
work against what's happening.

------
higherpurpose
You know what all these "ramp ups" for mass surveillance in the so called
"democratic countries" tell me? That this sort of stuff has been going on for
quite a while, but now much of it has become public, and they are scared some
of them could go to prison, or at least Courts could stop them from having
these powers, so they try to "legalize" all of it now.

Even if people test its constitutionality, it will probably be a very long
battle, to get rid of all of these powers, and they'll use the powers as much
as possible against the people questioning them to try to maintain these
powers.

------
andrewstuart
[http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/no-
conspira...](http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/no-conspiracy-
to-ambush-vic-officers-cops-20140926-3go8u.html)

------
hadoukenio
This is Australia's Executive Order 12333 moment:

    
    
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/meet-executive-order-12333-the-reagan-rule-that-lets-the-nsa-spy-on-americans/2014/07/18/93d2ac22-0b93-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html

