
67 Signals hasn't changed a thing - selamis
http://67signals.com/
======
coldtea
"Making simple software and charging heaps because we are hip and edgy..."

Every time I see things such as these I think: 20-something, doesn't
understand money ($20/month seems "too much"), doesn't understand business,
not much sense of humor either, mostly pissed about other being succesful...

The kind of people who write M$ with a dollar sign.

~~~
asdasf
Why are you bragging about making a bunch of uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions
about someone you know nothing about? And why is this trash the top comment?
Whether or not $20/month is too much does not depend on whether you have $20
to spend or not, it depends on the value you get from that $20. Products with
very little value, and which have $0 alternatives that provide more value are
not worth $20.

~~~
coldtea
> _Why are you bragging about making a bunch of uninformed, knee-jerk
> assumptions about someone you know nothing about?_

You mean I'm in the bad making assumptions about a person making "a bunch of
uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions" for other people in the form of a mean
"parody" site?

Besides, who told you I "know nothing about" that person? I know what he
wrote, and I know the tone he used. And I also have a pretty good sense of the
kind of handle he'd use if he were to comment on HN.

> _And why is this trash the top comment?_

Because people agree and voted for it to be. It's social news site in case you
don't know.

> _Whether or not $20 /month is too much does not depend on whether you have
> $20 to spend or not, it depends on the value you get from that $20. Products
> with very little value, and which have $0 alternatives that provide more
> value are not worth $20._

The value of something doesn't depend on what you say, it depends on what the
market is willing to pay for it. Since they have a 10+ year, multi-million
business with millions of customers, based on charging what they charge, I'd
say the argument is pretty much settled.

If it _feels_ like it ain't worth that much to you, you can use something
else. I missed the part when using their service was mandatory. Or do you do
parody sites for every "too expensive for me" product you find?

~~~
asdasf
Why do you think responding to "you are making a bunch of uninformed
assumptions" with more uninformed assumptions is productive? Protip: some of
us saw this site when it was made 2 years ago. Some of us are even aware of
the context of 37signals founders being abusive on twitter that the site was
created in response to. That does not mean we are all the people who made the
site.

------
nswanberg
This is too mean and angry to be a good parody. This one is better:
[http://friedisms.tumblr.com/page/4](http://friedisms.tumblr.com/page/4) (the
one about monkeys is still my favorite).

~~~
interstitial
Depends on your definition of parody. I think it fits Swiftian parody just
fine.

~~~
coldtea
Swiftian parody is not just mean. Actually, with some exceptions (like the
"modest proposal"), it's not mean at all.

And, most important of all, to fit Swiftian parody it would have to be
Swiftian-level good. This is subreddit level humor....

~~~
nswanberg
I was about to say the same thing, but I haven't read _A Modest Proposal_
since high school, so I poked around Wikipedia a bit and had lots of fun
reading about the kinds of satire.

There's Juvenalian, which "addresses social evil through ridicule" and
includes works like _1984_ , _American Psycho_ , _Family Guy_ , _A Modest
Proposal_ , and, I guess, this 67signals thing.

Then there's Horatian, which "playfully criticizes some social vice through
gentle, mild, and light-hearted humour" and is a lot of Twain, _The Simpsons_
, _Dr. Strangelove_ , and the Friedisms thing I linked to.

Hard to say what the social evil is that the folks who wrote 67signals say
they're fighting against. Possibly success. Possibly some angry comments DHH
made when a startup took their code:
[http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-
mocks-37-...](http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-
mocks-37-signals-after-it-attacked-a-yc-startup-for-stealing-code/)

(Anyway, apologies for the tangent--I went to a liberal arts school and
there's a dusty corner of my brain that still likes this stuff.)

------
Argorak
If your company has the stance of being opinionated and you have at least 3
instances of people investing the time to create an attempt at satire about
you... you must have done _something_ right!

------
AnotherDesigner
That's not funny or educational or even interesting. It looks like jealousy or
unfounded hate. I can't really think of anything 37signals has done to warrant
this. They make good products and treat both their employees and customers
well. Am I missing something?

~~~
anon1385
>They make good products

Do they? That isn't my experience.

>treat […] their […] customers well

Do they? That isn't my experience.

~~~
coldtea
Isn't it? You don't seem to previde any specifics.

Plus, whether it's your experience or not is irrelevant. The general consensus
is that they do both. You won't find many people in the industry believing
otherwise, not many unsatisfied customers in their forums.

~~~
asdasf
>The general consensus is that they do both

Your claim is just as baseless as the one you are responding to, which was
pointing out how baseless the original claim "they make good software" was.

>not many unsatisfied customers in their forums.

They heavily censor their forums. I know lots of former customers of theirs
who were more than just unsatisfied with them.

~~~
coldtea
> _Your claim is just as baseless as the one you are responding to, which was
> pointing out how baseless the original claim "they make good software" was._

Judging from the fact that their service has good reviews in major media and
millions of users, it doesn't sound anywhere near as baseless.

> _They heavily censor their forums._

Any examples? Surely those mythical people know how to save a screenshot,
right?

~~~
asdasf
>Judging from the fact that their service has good reviews in major media and
millions of users

They have no reviews in major media. They have both good and bad reviews in
minor media. The "millions of users" claim is not supported at all.

>Any examples? Surely those mythical people know how to save a screenshot,
right?

Yes, I happen to collect screenshots of things that are well known every time
anyone talks to me about anything just in case some random redditard wants
proof that the sky is blue.

~~~
coldtea
> _They have no reviews in major media. They have both good and bad reviews in
> minor media._

Well, I don't think PC Magazine, for one, is a "minor media" in the IT
industry. Or that being called "best" in your category is a "bad review".

> _The "millions of users" claim is not supported at all._

Supported by whom? You mean you don't believe the user numbers they give?
Being able to support a 10+ year old company, with 40+ employess, expensive
Chicago offices etc, I'd say the "millions of users" claim is just about
right. Heck, just a product of Basecamp, Ruby of Rails has had millions of
users. Oh, and this Jeff Bezos guy investing in them? I think he knows one
thing or two, too.

> _random redditard_

OK, this is HN. You can now go back into the woodwork.

~~~
Sssnake
>>random redditard

>OK, this is HN.

I believe that was his/her point. I'm clearly not the first person to have
noticed that your contributions are few and far between, with much garbage
taking up that in between. Your posts would be welcomed on reddit, here they
serve only to drag HN down.

~~~
coldtea
Excuse me, I maintained a serious responce in this thread, against some
immature kid defending a "satire" submission that wouldn't even have made even
reddit. And which, besides dragging 37 Signals in the mud, with FUD and
unsubstanciated claims, he also wents on to call people names.

You somehow think this is acceptable, but find my contributions "garbage"?
Last time I checked, my "garbage" contribution was the top thread in this
post, whereas the "satire" shouldn't even be posted in the first place.

------
davidw
Neither has 73 Prime Numbers. We believe our technology will stand the test of
time. [http://73primenumbers.com/](http://73primenumbers.com/)

------
notacoward
This inspired me to check whether 69signals exists. Yes, it does, and
amazingly it's not a porn site.

------
mam8cc
Context for those that were as out of the loop as I was:

[http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-
mocks-37-...](http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-
mocks-37-signals-after-it-attacked-a-yc-startup-for-stealing-code/)

------
antidaily
Embarrassingly dumb. Especially considering the fact that they changed their
name today: [http://37signals.com/](http://37signals.com/).

~~~
majestic217
It's dated nearly two years ago. What was that about "embarassingly dumb?"

[http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-
mocks-37-...](http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/01/31/this-site-
mocks-37-signals-after-it-attacked-a-yc-startup-for-stealing-code/)

~~~
awj
I personally think it was embarrassingly dumb _before_ the name change.

------
bluedino
What's the story behind the name '37signals'? I understand '42floors' since
they are in real estate, but some of these names are just ridiculous.

~~~
logicallee
ever have trouble recalling or typing either of those two?

basically they're branding two digits + a common word. why not.

Personally, I prefer to brand things that make slightly more sense, but to
each their own. it works just as well as branding an "io" at the end of
something.

it's just about repeating it a few times, until it can be recalled, and once
it can it's quick to get to.

~~~
djur
I forget what exact number it is all the time. "32 signals? 39 signals?"

~~~
logicallee
fair enough. if you Google does Google get you the right one - obviously.

so it still works though. I wonder if they have a general trademark claim
against thirtysomething-signals :)

------
hmhrex
Speaking of 37signals. I am looking for a good PM and CRM software. Either a
piece of software that does both, or two separate that integrate nicely. Any
suggestions?

We are a Web company that handles projects including Web, Film, Photography
and design.

We might be developing one in house if we can't find one that meets our needs.

~~~
xemoka
Have you taken a look at ActiveCollab [0]? I have a friend who's in a similar
space who swears by it... looking to get my environment to move to it as well.

[0] [https://www.activecollab.com/](https://www.activecollab.com/)

~~~
hmhrex
This might be exactly what I'm looking for. looks really great.

------
josephjrobison
This is hilarious people! I'm sure the founders are laughing. It's just good
humor c'mon....

------
thrillgore
Such edgy. Much satire. Wow.

~~~
justathrow2k
Please, stop talking in memes.

~~~
vadman
U mad bro?

~~~
justathrow2k
Not in the slightest :) Troll on, friend.

------
ChikkaChiChi
I liked the part where I closed the tab, thus saving my eyes and computer from
more stupidity.

~~~
bestdayever
This comment was almost as funny as the site!

------
pooshoot
This is awesome. I love the links.

~~~
650REDHAIR
I didn't even notice them until I read your comment.

That's pretty hilarious and I love the Trello link!

------
talles
Loved the "Clarity is kinfuhgjno"

------
arc_of_descent
Some good humor here! Enjoyed it.

