
Ask HN: My boss lowered my salary to make me more motivated - bnt
I work 9 hrs every day in the office and another 2 at home and my boss calls me in to say I&#x27;m not working hard enough and he&#x27;s lowering my pay &quot;to motivate me&quot;. I have a triple role in the company and am close to the product design &#x2F; dev &#x2F; roadmap decision making.&lt;p&gt;I feel humiliated and angry at the same time, and am in need of any advice on how to approach this.
======
bcRIPster
Start looking for a new job, today. Seriously. I know that at first glance
you're going to say "but I can't do that right now". Yes. Yes you can. Log
into Monster.com, call local contract agencies in your town.

When an employer does something like this given the role you are providing to
them they are either dealing with financial issues and taking them out on you
(which could mean you might not have a job in the near future anyways), or
they simply have no respect for you and what you provide (simply not a healthy
environment for anyone to be working in). Another possibility is they're
trying to create a hostile environment in order to get you to quit so they
don't have to fire you and pay unemployment benefits (if that's relevant in
your local).

It may seem scary, but you'll be better off moving to a new job. Start looking
now before you're in a worse position.

------
marcus_holmes
Tell him that you really appreciate his motivational approach, and to return
the favour you're going to reduce the hours you work so that you can cut out
the 'make-work' and really focus down on just the things that the organisation
needs.

His minimalist approach to the work ethic has really inspired you to cut out
all the crap from your day and simply focus on getting the important things
done.

You really appreciate his willingness to see the big picture and contravene
the tired old conventions of workplace motivation, going against centuries of
outdated thinking by introducing this radical innovation and clarity of
vision.

You will no longer refer to what you do as "work", as that clearly references
a model of "work for hire" that he is clearly moving away from by reducing the
"hire" component, and instead you will refer to it as "life participation".

He has inspired you to go against the tired old conventions of workplace
thinking and "participate in life" at places not bound by the restrictions of
obsolete convention, so in future he can expect you to build product from such
places as your living room, the park, a public library, or even a bar. You
will "life participate" for periods of time not bound by outmoded traditional
thinking, and turn up when your willingness to participate in life is matched
by your enthusiasm for being at the office.

In short; two can play at that game and he needs to be reminded of the rules.

~~~
briholt
That's funny, but seems pretty passive aggressive and probably wouldn't end
well for anyone.

~~~
dalke
That's not "passive aggressive." It's just "aggressive."

It hasn't started off well, and likely there's little that the submitter can
do to make it end well. The main questions are to decide between 1) quit, or
2) get fired.

I'm with kohanz. This sounds like constructive dismissal. A common response is
work-to-rule or rule-book slowdown. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-
rule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule) . Do what your job
description demands and no more.

------
kohanz
_Constructive Dismissal_ [0]

If you quit, know that it is likely exactly what your boss wants.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal)

~~~
wikwocket
So? I see what you are saying, but when it comes to employment, you make your
decisions based on what _you_ want and need, not what anyone else thinks.

I would never advise someone to keep working a job that takes advantage of
them, just to spite someone else's wishes. If they are a bad company and make
you work overtime for substandard pay, who cares if they're happy to see you
go? Go, and shake their dust from your heels as you leave.

~~~
kohanz
You're missing the point.

I don't know the OP's particular situation, but constructive dismissal can be
very relevant when someone is pushed out of a job where they would otherwise
be expensive (e.g. severance) to terminate. This is what constructive
dismissal laws are in place to prevent.

In _either_ case, as you say, the right thing to do is quit, but the OP should
be aware of the laws in their jurisdiction, in case they have a case worth
pursuing.

------
tlack
I agree with everyone else: you should quit.

However.. I think there may be an opportunity for personal growth here. Though
it's probably too late to fix this situation, you can be prepared for the next
time.

Put yourself in his shoes. He wouldn't do this for no reason. What makes him
think you aren't working hard enough? What do you think are his main issues
with your specific behaviors and actions?

Are you failing to show the results of your labor? Are you busting your balls
on 80% of the problem, but never closing out that last 20%, making it look
like you never did anything?

It's important that your boss understands your role in detail, your
accomplishments in full (soon after they happen), and your value to the
company.

What is getting lost between your effort and his comprehension of that effort?

~~~
bnt
The main reason why it seems I'm not performing as my CEO expects is because
I'm overloaded with work and this is something I've said multiple times over
and over again.

Also, my CEO doesn't have enough insight into my work, unlike my superior who
I've never had issues with nor was I ever verbally or in written manner told I
was falling behind on work.

However, my superior wasn't in the office at the moment this happened and I
couldn't get him to stand behind me, but looking at this now (few hours
later), the CEO chose the perfect moment to do this.

So, to summarize: I did say I am overloaded, I presented my accomplishments,
but the decision was final.

~~~
joezydeco
DOCUMENT EVERYTHING FROM HERE ON IN.

Also, start daily status reports. Mail them at normal closing time and again
after your overtime if you do it. Mark what you got done, what is in process,
and what is next up.

When a new task comes in, add it to the list in the proper place. If a running
task was bumped to make room for an emergency, that gets an ALL CAPS NOTE
marking the change in priority.

Mail these to the boss and BCC them to yourself in a personal account. Keep
copies of his replies as well.

At best, the act of mailing these alone should show that you're trying to keep
on top of things. It _might_ reveal to the boss how much you have on your
plate. At worst, you have a paper trail if it does lead to a constructive
dismissal situation.

~~~
sdesol
"DOCUMENT EVERYTHING FROM HERE ON IN."

This sounds like a lot of work and a waste of time in my opinion. If they
can't tell what OP is working on, he/she is either:

a) in a really bad situation and should leave ASAP

b) there is some validity for the pay cut

c) there is money issue with the company

Maybe I've been fortunate with my previous employers as they were generally
willing to bend over backwards to make me happy, since I got things done. If
his/her employer is clueless as to what OP is doing, then really it's a bad
situation for all.

Unless OP is in love with their current job, adding paper work to their day to
day task would be a waste of time in my opinion.

~~~
joezydeco
We're talking a 60-second email that can even be cut-and-pasted from the
previous day's email. It's not a Powerpoint presentation.

If OP really wants to hold onto the job this is a tactic to keep the
termination at bay and micromanaging to a minimum...possibly. It's also a
backup where if bnt _is_ fired and wishes to get a lawyer in the mix, he has
an audit trail. Boss might say "bnt did nothing" when the email in fact shows
he was working as best as he possibly could and was completing tasks and boss
was acknowledging those completions.

You probably have as much insight as I do about bnt's location, family
situation, cash reserves, and local job market conditions. "Leave ASAP" could
be a week or it could be 6 months.

~~~
bnt
I'll definitely ddocument everything from now on, but my 6-month plan is to
leave. I'm the second most experienced person in the company and don't feel
like working for an entry-level pay.

~~~
bcRIPster
Whatever you do, make your exit professional. Also, don't take six months to
find a new job (6-month plan?). You really need to make this happen as soon as
possible.

Documentation is fine if you get into a wrongful discharge situation or you're
looking to fight opinion of you but unless you're planning to sue these guys,
or you really think you're going to cause an epiphany for the CEO, it's better
to just GTFO and move on with your life.

Good-luck!

------
tsax
Haha. This is the worst possible way to 'motivate' a high-value employee in a
decent job market.

1) Find out a few companies hiring in your area through deep research.

2) Contact a few people in these companies to get a lay of the land on the
positions and the environment. In short, informational interviews over coffee.
DO NOT ASK FOR THE JOB IN THIS STEP. JUST DON'T.

3) Your objective should be to see which jobs you'd like to do, and which jobs
you can do. The intersection will go on your final list.

4) Keep contact with the coffee interviewees by sending them interesting
links, or other 'gifts' and by that I don't mean basket of chocolates, I mean
any valuable information/links/thoughts that could help them with whatever -
business or personal. Reach out once right after meeting, once one week later,
and once every month from here on.

5) Craft your Resume and cover letter focused on THE NEEDS OF THE HIRING
MANAGER. Think of your resume as a story you're telling the hiring manager
that resonates with him based on his needs.

6) Nail the interview .

If any step from 1 to 6 goes wrong, go back to the previous step and carry on.

Good luck. Oh and show your boss the finger when you walk out with a new offer
for 10-20% more pay.

~~~
hcho
Is he getting a sales job? Upload CV to job board, watch the phone fall off
the hook is the current modus operandi.

~~~
tsax
Sure, if any job will do. But if you are far more selective, the above steps
will help.

------
Consultant32452
First, your boss is a jerk and is obviously trying to get rid of you as others
have stated.

Secondly though, please consider that just because you're working 11 hours a
day doesn't mean your boss/company considers you valuable. I've seen lots of
cases where a guy works 10 hours a day but simply isn't a productive member of
the team. Others work maybe 2-3 hours per day and are the most productive
people around. I don't know you or your situation but it's entirely possible
that your long work hours are just not being used effectively. In addition to
finding a new job I would seriously suggest that you take a moment to reflect
on how others (not just your boss) consider your value as a productive team
member and be careful not to confuse the fact that someone at work might think
you're an awesome guy personally with whether or not they think you're highly
productive.

Even if you're _NOT_ productive, your boss is horrible and the company you
work for is horrible so you should leave anyways. I hope it works out for you
and you find better, happier employment in the future.

~~~
smacktoward
Or the boss doesn't respect the OP, and that's why the OP gets stuck doing 11
hour shifts -- because the boss feels free to dump all the scut work on them,
leaving the choice assignments for the people the boss _does_ respect.

There are some people who only respect people who will punch them in the nose.
When they meet new people, they throw unpleasant things at them to see if
they're the kind of person who stands up for themselves or not. If they do,
they get treated well from that point on; if they don't, they figure you're
safe to shovel crap at, so any crap that comes in gets shoveled at you.

It's basically the grown-up version of a schoolyard bully. Bullies only
respect strength. So when dealing with these people you have to be willing to
draw a line in the sand and throw a (metaphorical) punch if they ever cross
it.

------
jasonkester
Seems like a poorly thought out way to motivate somebody. In addition to the
obvious advice of "find a new job immediately", if it were me I'd be sure to
demonstrate to the boss in question that it doesn't work the way he thinks it
does.

Pull out a calculator. Assume you were previously working 40 hour weeks (he
loses those 3 overtime hours a day as a matter of course). Now multiply by
your new salary and divide by the old one. That's how many hours per week
you're going to work for the short amount of time you're still there.

If your boss notices and complains, you can explain the math to him, and
calculate the figure he'll need to pay to get back to those 55 hour weeks he
was previously accustomed to.

~~~
jagawhowho
FYI the boss isn't actually trying to motivate him.

------
solarmass
Your organization or situation may not be suitable for this, but here is what
I would suggest doing:

1) prepare yourself to leave the job: save money, dedicate time to search for
jobs, update resume, etc.

2) Write note summarizing the hours you put in, what your roles are, and how
the pay cut is disappointing.

3) Practice a conversation with your boss expressing what you have written w/o
getting emotional or angry. Just an informative talk. Prepare to give him a
chance to respond.

4) Have conversation, give him note, verbally inform him that you will only be
working on your responsibilities while in the office. The other time is to
find a job. Do not verbalize this to him, he will figure it out and probably
ask you about it. Have a response ready that is on the line of 'the cut in pay
effects my personal life and expenses.' You do not want to directly say you
are looking for another job.

5) Hand him note and send same note to his boss or human resources. If he is
the top of the food chain, perfect.

6) Spend the time you would be working to find a job.

7) If he reconsiders his pay cut, have followup conversation that the trust
had been damaged. Ask him to fix the situation.

8) Leave unless he goes above and beyond to fix trust.

~~~
bnt
Great advice about writing down a list of responsibilities and sticking to
them. Thanks!

------
bsg75
Find a new gig, put in your notice, explain that you were motivated to leave.

Cut your work hours to 40/week MAX. Use your own time for the job search,
instead of unpaid overtime for an organization that does not value it.

~~~
joezydeco
And here's a tip about "putting in your notice":

If you're working in an "at-will" state (which I'm guessing you are) and you
are NOT under a contract (which previous data has led me to believe you are
not) you do NOT have to give two weeks notice. Two weeks is a courtesy and
nothing more.

You can quit on the spot. In fact, do it and do it nicely and when the boss
goes ballistic about finishing up work you are doing then you can make a
gentle offer to contract back at a much higher HOURLY rate. It needs to be
higher for two reasons: 1) because legally you're gonna have to pay self-
employment taxes on it but 2) you're gonna leave with a little bit of pain on
his side. With the possibility of your current company being tight on cash you
might want to be sure you get prepaid some # hours before you set foot back in
the door. Collecting might be tougher after the fact.

And whether you leave on the spot or work those last two weeks, DO leave
yourself a week of decompression time before the next job. You'll start a lot
fresher and be in a great mood. Start dates are always negotiable and don't
have to be exactly two Mondays after the offer letter is printed.

------
jamesjguthrie
[1] In the UK this is illegal without your consent. Have you checked your
local laws?

1\. [http://www.lindermyers.co.uk/can-an-employer-reduce-an-
emplo...](http://www.lindermyers.co.uk/can-an-employer-reduce-an-employees-
salary_375.html)

~~~
bnt
EU member state. I'm going to take your (and some others) advice and will
lawyer up. It's not a matter of lowering my pay now, but I openly fear this is
the first step to getting me fired.

~~~
mavdi
Just come round to London, tons of programming jobs with great pay.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Isn't the London market notorious for low pay and high living expenses?

------
larrik
Honestly, it sounds to me like there is a rather complex political environment
there that you are clueless about. You might be a pawn in a war between your
CEO and your boss. You might actually be working for terrible or incompetent
people. The point is, it's probably NOT about you, although it could be.

Is this in the USA? Europe? Lowering your salary is actually legally
troublesome in a lot of places, and you may be able to seek legal help. I know
in the US your state's Department of Labor (or equivalent) usually LOVES to
hear these stories and crack down on these sorts of employers. Ironically for
this site, I don't know how California works with this stuff.

------
briholt
Reasonable people like you often seek to appeal to reason when confronting
problems created by unreasonable people like your boss, but unreasonable
people can't be reasoned with. Your boss has motives other than getting
reasonable work in exchange for reasonable pay, so the most reasonable
solution would be to seek employment at a more reasonable company.

------
k3oni
Don't quit, YET. Go back at working 40 hours a week and start looking for
another job. Once you find a new gig don't show up to work the next day.

Once he calls you up as he needs your help tell him that it will cost him $xxx
per hour for contracting, granted this only applies if you actually want to do
it.

~~~
MattyRad
I agree with this. It creates leverage that you wouldn't otherwise have while
simultaneously making a statement that you don't appreciate being taken
advantage of. Worst case scenario: you never hear from him again, which still
sounds like a win.

Also, it reminds me of this:
[http://www.27bslash6.com/bob.html](http://www.27bslash6.com/bob.html)

------
kordless
A cut of 20% or more in your pay can allow you to quit and draw unemployment.
I'd suggest a quick phone call with the unemployment office to check, and then
write up a letter to the top management of the company stating what you are
resigning and that you will be drawing unemployment. That'll be a nice ding in
this guy's ass for doing what he did.

BTW, he's probably a narcissist. No matter the outcome of the unemployment
situation, you should arrange to leave post haste. Things will look brighter
on the outside.

Best of luck. Sorry you got caught up in someone else's suffering.

------
jason_slack
Maybe the company needs to cut costs, but truly needs your work. So they don't
want to fire as they still have hope for the results you produce. Lowering
your pay may be there way of buying themselves more time before they admit
they wont reach their end goal.

Up and leave. Head held high. Finger in the air, LOL.

Seriously though don't look back. Don't let them say "We will give you back
your full salary if you stay"

~~~
bnt
Not a money issue, fresh Series B in the pocket.

------
PythonicAlpha
Honestly: I would search for a different job.

You can try inside your company to find a different boss or go for another
company.

Incompetent bosses are widely spread in the computer business. That kind of
treatment is a clear sign of it. As one wrote, it could be a political thing,
but I am not sure about that and also you need not to care, because on every
side, the result for me would be, that I try to find a different job. Such
bosses are the hell and nobody that is competent in is work deserves such
bosses.

Edit: This "hard enough" thing, is something, that is inside the heads of bad
bosses and is spread by business-magazines like viruses. The thing is: A good
developer should be honored to work hard enough, when he works 40hrs period.

If the boss thinks, that he needs people working 50-60hrs, than in reality he
needs morons that he can turn his whip on. The hours don't tell anything on
the productivity of people. Some programmers make twice the work in half the
time of others. And spending long hours means that you are exhausted and
exhausted people are both, less productive and much less creative.

------
imrank1
I worked at a place where the VP of Engineering threatened to do what you
described to 'motivate' people. He also said if he thinks the interns are
working better he will lower full time employees salaries. A couple of months
later I and some other engineers left. You should look for another job.

------
joesmo
Start looking for another job. Nothing good can possibly happen in this
situation from now on. Once you've made arrangements for another position,
feel free to quit at the most inopportune moment without notice. I'm assuming
at-will employment here, of course.

------
PaulRobinson
Your boss is a jerk who doesn't respect you and this is constructive
dismissal.

Understand the law where you live, take advice if you can, but absolutely 100%
look for another job and get out.

------
lauradhamilton
Your boss can't unilaterally lower your salary. You had an agreement to do X
work for Y pay, and if he/she wants to change Y you need to agree.

If you are in the US, don't quit. Instead send an email (important to get this
in writing) that you reject the proposed lower salary.

There's a lot of missing info here. In general, if your boss is trying to get
you to quit, you're probably better off getting laid off or fired instead.

Also, immediately start looking for a new job.

------
azurelogic
Echoing the other comments here: just find something new. There are plenty of
jobs out there. Dig up the last HN "Who's Hiring" and start there.

------
metaphorm
Sounds like you've been motivated to find a new job.

------
lexi-mono
Leave. Your time is valuable and you could spend it somewhere else for the
same or more money, if you feel disrespected.

------
ericclemmons
Sounds like as terrible boss! Any salary changes, good or bad, should have a
conversation preceding them.

I couldn't find your email in your profile, but found it in some other
comments you made. Your skillset overlaps nicely with what my team already
does!

------
pasbesoin
Leave. Regardless of how the situation subsequently plays out, this is not
someone you can trust.

(Meaning, find the next job while you're employed. And that reduced pay should
justify -- in your own mind -- the personal hours it takes to do so.)

------
mavdi
I never understood this... As a programmer you have tons of options, bosses
just can't treat programmers as normal workforce anymore. Do take these
options and move on. It is really simple.

------
PythonicAlpha
One thought, why you should quit (at least in the long run): A company, that
treats valuable people this way will go downhill in short or longer time.

------
meerita
Just quit. I think it will be the best thing you can do, specially when you do
3 jobs for the price of one.

------
paulajohnson
Find a new job first, then quit. Its a lot easier to find a job when you
already have one.

------
gesman
Build something essential yet convoluted that only you can understand. Then
suddenly quit.

'nuff said.

------
mkaziz
Leave.

------
chisto
I would recommend the same "Leave", but make things clear with he could be a
good start, just because is your boss is not the only-rule-decision-maker,
express your anger if he get hot-head, punch that f%ckr. :)

~~~
chc
Punching your boss would be a very poor response to this situation.

~~~
chisto
probably, but is just a added thought.

