
Using data to find the middle of nowhere - SQL2219
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/20/using-the-best-data-possible-we-set-out-to-find-the-middle-of-nowhere/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_wb-middle-of-nowhere-310pm-winner%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.9c034cb6fdc5
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wglb
I would suggest that the number 75,000 is east coast thinking. Glasgow an wolf
point are not really nowhere. And the travel time criteria suggests an
attention span deficit common to city life.

I would suggest another metric. That is the percentage of people living in an
area who have not seen the Milky Way. There is likely a whole seath of the
Sprawl where that metric would be zero.

~~~
jsjohnst
Funny, we had a discussion on Slack at work where numerous folks hadn’t ever
seen the Milky Way yesterday. I think many on the east coast haven’t,
especially in NYC, and it’s rather sad.

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wgerard
> it’s rather sad.

Why?

The antipathy city dwellers feel for "flyover country" is silly, but the
reverse is pretty silly too.

I might think it's strange that some people have never gone hiking or camping,
but they think it's just as strange that I had never seen a symphony
performance until recently.

People just lead different lives, I dunno that one's more sad than the other.

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jsjohnst
> Why?

You don’t think it’s sad that people don’t travel more than an hour from a
major city and experience the world around them?

> People just lead different lives, I dunno that one's more sad than the
> other.

I don’t think one needs to be more sad than the other. If people had
experiences outside their narrow sliver of their daily lives they might be
more tolerant of others who live different lives.

~~~
wgerard
> You don’t think it’s sad that people don’t travel more than an hour from a
> major city and experience the world around them?

Not to be _too_ much of an armchair psychologist, but I think that says more
about you than it does about them.

Again, there are people who think it's sad that I've never been to a
professional ballet performance. Or that I've never gone wheelin. Or that I
have yet to go to the statue of liberty.

Should we all drop everything we're doing to satisfy someone else's idea of a
measured life?

> If people had experiences outside their narrow sliver of their daily lives
> they might be more tolerant of others who live different lives.

You can have an incredible wealth of experiences without traveling very far.
Especially in a major city. A visit to Lincoln Center is very different from a
visit to Flushing, and both are very different from a visit to Staten Island.

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chrissnell
Funny, I live just a couple of miles from where that photo is taken. While
it's true that we're a long way from a big city, this place does not feel all
that isolated. I've been to towns in Utah and Nevada that are hours of dirt
road driving from the nearest grocery store: Jarbidge, NV, Trout Creek, UT.
Those are truly in the middle of nowhere. I've asked folks in these towns
where they get their food and the answer is the same: occasional drives into
town but mostly Amazon Prime.

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toomuchtodo
Would love to hear the background of what brought you to these towns. Sounds
like an adventure!

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grzm
I suspect a lot of questions regarding the metrics used can be found in either
the WaPo article this references or the Nature piece the WaPo article is based
on:

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/20/using...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/20/using-
the-best-data-possible-we-set-out-to-find-the-middle-of-nowhere/)

[http://www.nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature25181.epdf?...](http://www.nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature25181.epdf?referrer_access_token=ymbRxnz9zrlLgXUIZSErjdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Nro_3a2_QnHhoi4tmpV4YMThej2zn3HuD6JN5yUCKyoEn8Hh54UuPRPq31j83atkeBxCzjyGlSHVauT5umbpzjjwPxv8_DF57JNW453vRpaF6geg9BYzab4Y9zEjEsT16chcsqI4VCZk9gIFqK6-mJV7EOGvlR-
LeGKSQp5in2YUKRIwjexV8tsh70tlGczDxwGz_oJ6S0R5nu2oANwAwdpCkf2FqC-kdm-
JKYuIGE_Yw2otVw_AIRbsvfzqIxKpXCUGJHQ7sgF8vYeH7nfTWHkU6HJwAGyrPt04f1Ioc7DFwyGtap8E7hIPCP6WRE3EaoXSZOaRMDTxjJxEX1333_5dDfp9fRI3_meJr263ljp2O3uuJXthpUkT5v-R3-l6SaMqYEmImS6ww7QXXYGaqz&tracking_referrer=www.washingtonpost.com)

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kayhi
I guess they didn't want to include Alaska.

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protomyth
or Wyoming

I'm from North Dakota and when the friggin sign in Wyoming says there are no
towns for the next 73 miles you believe them and make sure your fuel is good.

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code_duck
73 miles is only about an hour.

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dredmorbius
Very much depends on the season.

Also on services at that town being open.

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protomyth
Its always fun to drive up to a gas station that closes early. You'll find
that the various maps applications are really low data for rural areas.

When I was young and a bit stupid 73 miles could be done in 45 minutes, but
I've also had nights where 73 miles was a 3 hour drive.

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code_duck
This is less of a problem now that most places have 24 hour pumps with credit
card machines, even in the sticks (really, they need it the most since it’s
rarely profitable to pay an employee to be at the store).

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megaman22
The "ranked by travel time in hours" metric is a little weird. Travel by what?
Trains, planes, or automobiles?

There's also a huge chunk of the state of Maine that is more than 3.5 hours
from either Boston or Quebec City (there are no cities in Maine larger than
75,000 people[1])

[1] [https://www.maine-
demographics.com/cities_by_population](https://www.maine-
demographics.com/cities_by_population)

~~~
torstenvl
Whether there are any cities in Maine larger than 75,000 people is irrelevant.
The study is not based on city population. EDIT: The WaPo story is _also_ not
based on city population.

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pessimizer
> The Post used simple criteria: “towns that are farthest from any metro with
> more than 75,000 people, ranked by travel time in hours.”

This story isn't about the study, which also wasn't to find the towns most in
the middle of nowhere, but about a WaPo story, which was.

