
Evidence for Africans in Britain from the Bronze Age to the Medieval Period - diodorus
http://www.caitlingreen.org/2016/05/a-note-on-evidence-for-african-migrants.html
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NoGravitas
> Sites possessing isotopic evidence consistent with the presence of first-
> generation immigrants from North Africa are found in all periods looked at,
> although there is a clear peak in the Roman era.

That makes sense. North Africa was better integrated into the Roman Empire
than Britain was, really, so it wouldn't be surprising to see a fair number of
North African Roman citizens, socii, or provinciales in Britain on Roman
business.

~~~
betawolf33
Similarly, the single Bronze-Iron age result they find is from the Isle of
Thanet, which was a major trading post

(see: [http://www.caitlingreen.org/2015/04/thanet-tanit-and-the-
pho...](http://www.caitlingreen.org/2015/04/thanet-tanit-and-the-
phoenicians.html) )

~~~
contingencies
Tin trade. Tin was pretty rare and IIRC the fertile crescent and Egypt are
thought to have imported it from Cornwall or Iran/India. Pithy quote: _Strabo
(Geography, 3.5.11) mentions the important ancient tin trade with the
Kassiterides, the 'Tin Islands', which have often been credibly identified
with either the Isles of Scilly or Cornwall, and goes on to state that 'in
former times it was the Phoenicians alone', from Cadiz, 'who carried on this
commerce'.(10)_

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MollyR
I thought a significant portion of north africans are genetically arab.

~~~
Mikeb85
You have to remember, lots of conquests occurred in the last 2000 years. Prior
to Islam (circa 600 CE), Arabs didn't spread out much from Arabia. Turkey,
Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc..., none of them were Arab prior to the
conquests. Heck there weren't even Turks in Turkey (Turks come from central
Asia).

Anyhow, North Africa consisted of Phoenicians (Semitic people, ethnically
close to Assyrians who spread out along the north coast of Africa and
elsewhere during Classical Antiquity), Greeks, Romans, Egyptians and Africans.

~~~
findyoucef
Wow there is a lot misinformation around here. You mention Phoenicians,
Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, but you forget to mention the the indigenous
population of North Africa, the Berbers. We're still here people we've been
here since before the Phoenicians and Romans. Northwest africa (Morocco,
Algeria, Tunisia) is to this day majority berber (amazigh). Romans occupied
north Africa, Byzantines, Vandals, Arabs and Turks, and eventually the French,
but there was not a population replacement. Recent genetic population studies
of the Maghreb have proved this (try google). Romanization and then eventually
Arabization was a cultural process. The majority population of North Africa is
still Berber and about 40-50% continue to speak Berber.

These results are not a surprise as North African kingdoms were very well
integrated into the Roman and Byzantine empires. The Romans used to call us
the Numidians in the east (eastern Algeria) and the Mauri in the west (west of
Algiers to Morocco). The word Moor is derived from Mauri.. The daughter of
queen Cleopatra and Mark Antony was married to one of our kings (Juba). Also
the oldest medieval skeleton recovered in the south of france is of berber
stock, there was even a Roman emperor of North African origin (Septimius
Severus).

Anyway, we didn't go anywhere, we're still here, but the way we identify has
changed for some of us. Just as the Italians no longer call themselves Romans.

~~~
Mikeb85
Literally the last word of my first post.

Or should I have listed the specific histories of every part of North Africa
from pre-history until the Arab conquests?

And of course, Berber identity has changed throughout the years, after the
Arab conquests and Islam spread, Berber and Arab identities mixed, and that
gave rise to the current ethnic makeup of the region today.

~~~
findyoucef
You mean the part where it says "Africans?" That's not specific enough. Africa
is vast and many different ethnicities and when people say Africans they
instantly think of black africans. Egyptians are also africans, but you
mentioned them. This region developed separately from sub-saharan africa
because the sahara is a natural barrier which limited migration.

~~~
Mikeb85
What is an African but someone from Africa?

~~~
findyoucef
Exactly, the same as an Egyptian.

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taphangum
It seems ridiculous to me that there is any surprise that people (of all hues)
have always been migrating. It's literally what humans do (and animals for
that matter), and have been doing since we first arrived on this planet. The
level of admixture that we can now see is in ALL of our DNA makes it even more
amazing that people are surprised by this.

~~~
calibraxis
Yes, that's what anthropologists often say. So you have quite some evidence
backing you up... And many humans now are excited about exploring space,
agitating over how few resources we allocate to it.

(That's another rant that many have; it's not like we suffer from too few
resources. In fact, we overproduce many costly things. It's simply
distribution that's fundamentally broken.)

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igf
>The degree to which pre-modern Britain included people of African origin
within its population continues to be a topic of considerable interest

Why?

Also, aren't all people of African origin?

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pjc50
Ongoing arguments about representation. Some people want to maintain the lie
that there were no black people in the UK before the _Empire Windrush_. Some
people want to insist that fantasy novels of pseudo-medieval settings should
not have black people in as it's not "realistic", which is also silly.

~~~
aminok
It should be noted that North African is generally not black and in fact
genetic testing of remains of some individuals living in the region of
Carthage at the height of its power show them to possess a European haplolyte
that has since mostly disappeared, and survives predominantly on the Iberian
peninsula.

~~~
dghf
> It should be noted that North African is generally not black

It's not as simple as that. Do a Google image search for 'Tuareg' and you'll
find a number of faces that meet modern British (and American) conceptions of
'black'.

~~~
aminok
>It's not as simple as that. Do a Google image search for 'Tuareg' and you'll
find a number of faces that meet modern British (and American) conceptions of
'black'.

I didn't put it in overly simplistic terms. I said it "is generally not
black", not "it is not black" or "it is never black". I was referring to the
majority, rather making a blanket characterization about all North Africans.

