
People Are Stacking Too Many Stones - gk1
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/people-are-stacking-too-many-stones
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downer59

      can cause erosion and damage ecosystems
    

Oh please. This is _so_ far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon
the energy to even shrug about it.

If anything, it's an argument for the sake of arguing. It's almost perfectly
illustrative of the perils of trying to get humans to cooperate and agree at
all.

First of all, you have brick buildings. Second of all, you have open pit
mining. Third, you have mountaintop removal. Fourth, highways. All of which
are literally millions, if not billions or perhaps even trillions of times
worse.

For reference:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-
pit_mining](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-pit_mining)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountaintop_removal_mining](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountaintop_removal_mining)

I mean, hey, maybe we shouldn't throw pennies in wishing wells, or Old
Faithful for that matter, but seriously, if you're worried about this, I have
another anxiety: shoes. The durable rubber soles of shoes actually leave
imprints in sand, when people wear them while walking. Don't believe me? Try
it yourself!

And what's worse? Astronauts used these appliances on the surface of the moon
itself, forever contaminating the lunar landscape, previously pristine, and
unfettered by human influence. A tragedy of the commons.

~~~
froindt
>>can cause erosion and damage ecosystems

>Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon
the energy to even shrug about it.

It _is_ causing noticeable impact though. I recently went to Iceland which has
had rapid tourism growth since about 2008. There is a place along Ring Road
(the road around the whole island) where long ago, a rock was placed on a
stack for good luck in their travels. [1] There's essentially one place where
it's "tolerated" on the island for a reason that goes back hundreds of years.
Even driving 20+ miles beyond the location, there were stacks of rocks off
~100 feet off the road. It really ruined the natural look.

Iceland has moss covering large chunks of the island. It takes something like
30 years for the moss to grow back. Simply stepping on moss can kill it,
justifying the MANY messages about staying on the paths. Someone walked over
100+ feet of mossy rocks to stack rocks.

The rocks slow down the water flow rate and prevent the dirt from getting
scooped up.

I don't know how else to say it, but it is a big deal.

[1]
[https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/laufskalavarda](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/laufskalavarda)

~~~
iratewizard
Iceland has a population of 300k and brought in more than 2m visitors last
year. 10% of its GDP and 30% of export revenue. The vast majority of tourists
in Iceland are very respectful, but Iceland's hasty decision to bootstrap its
economy after 2008 with tourism despite a lack of infrastructure has its
costs. The way I see it, Iceland is lucky to have attracted so many higher
quality guests.

~~~
gwright
I was in Iceland this past June and the mismatch between the number of
tourists and the infrastructure at the national parks and scenic
overlooks/stops was enormous.

I have no idea what the right number of tourists for Iceland is but at several
locations the facilities (restrooms, food services, shop) were small and
completely overwhelmed by the number of busses that were stopping in quick
succession.

I was on a cruise and unfortunately the logistics of port calls tends to
create very bursty traffic patterns with large number of tour busses
disgorging visitors in quick succession at these under-sized locations.

For example the facilities at Goðafoss were undersized:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@65.6860127,-17.5395264,3a,37.5y...](https://www.google.com/maps/@65.6860127,-17.5395264,3a,37.5y,150.84h,89.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSls2fKKZeRsDJi5I6Qs4mw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

On the other hand the facilities at Geysir were much better:
[https://www.google.com/maps/@64.3100169,-20.3013397,3a,75y,1...](https://www.google.com/maps/@64.3100169,-20.3013397,3a,75y,186.95h,89.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXCe6dEQcwyt7nVsO9i2Yjw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXCe6dEQcwyt7nVsO9i2Yjw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D120.409164%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656)

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s0rce
My "rule" for these kinds of activities is to ask myself, if every visitor to
the area did this would it cause a problem? If so, for the most part, I
refrain from doing whatever the thing is. I think this applies well to the
rock stacking.

Unless you are marking an off trail route or a faint trail please don't stack
rocks, its confusing or just vandalism.

~~~
iratewizard
You can easily take that to ad absurdum levels and every activity you do is
destroying the world. There's a balance, and stone stacking happens to balance
the line between posturing one's virtue and respecting an ecosystem.

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justinator
This is somewhat of a problem on mountain routes, where stack stones are
sometimes used as navigational markers (cairns). The ethics of Leave No Trace
say not to leave these cairns. Many times, people will put these up to aid
others, but their route deviates from what could be a better/safe alternative.
Or at least a different opinion on what one is. Then, you have two sets of
cairns, each going off in its own way.

Until you get three sets.

This goes on, until no one can realistically understand what the cairns are
trying to communicate.

~~~
pseudolus
This is an excellent point that a lot of people overlook. In some parks the
cairns are so far apart that creating a new "pseudo cairn" can cause some
serious navigational inconvenience. There's nothing more annoying than having
to constantly double back and recheck against a trail map because some
individual has decided to exercise a best neglected artistic flair. They
should save it for their own garden.

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hirundo
A notable feature of stacks of stones is that they're easy to knock over. So
if you don't like them, knock them over. It'll make you feel good, to the
extent that you don't like them. So it's a way for stackers to help topplers
feel good about themselves. Toppling stones is actually strangely satisfying,
like stomping a sand castle, starting a domino avalanche or exploding a death
star. Cumulatively the number of stacks will reflect the balance between
stackers and topplers, so it's democratic.

Myself, I don't care, but I have other pet peeves that I do care about for
very little reason. Stickers that are hard to remove from products, for one.
Now that requires urgent action.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Yes! Stickers! I bought a cheap cell phone and it had a sticker I couldn't see
when it was in the package, that covered the battery compartment so I couldn't
even open it. And it wouldn't come off. Picking at it produced a gummy
hopeless wad. I resorted to a pocket knive, carved away plastic and paper
until it was gone.

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istjohn
This may be a stupid question, but what exactly is the concern with erosion in
mountainous terrain? I just don't understand what's at stake. Mountains erode.
Why should we worry if human activity hastens the process a little? I'm asking
in earnest. What am I missing?

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dmckeon
On a spectrum of: private land, public land, national park; stones stacking
seems: reasonable, regrettable, deeply thoughtless. If one cannot visit a park
without visibly changing the landscape, one should simply not enter a park.

Examining this activity without considering the location is simply false
equivalence. Any vandalism in a national park, or any nearly untrammeled area
of similar protectable value is not defendable. Also, get off our lawn.

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AnonymousRider
With so many real problems in National Parks (including the ASTOUNDING number
of mysterious disappearances of park visitors) I find this article a generic
case of pearl-clutching stupidity. Humans have been stacking stones atop one
another since at least 12,000 BC as in Gobekli Tepe in Turkey. We stack stones
for our shelters, our fireplaces, and our workplaces. We stack stones for
monuments. So now we are stacking stones for sheer aesthetic beauty. Good.
Stack away with the knowledge that you are continuing a human tradition that
has been going on for millennia.

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crispinb
It's surely unconscionable to write about stone stacking with nary a mention
of Andy Goldsworthy!

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pedrotornado
I was in WY to summit Gannett peak during the eclipse a couple summers ago. It
was windy. Our tent was starting to deteriorate and rip apart. We moved
stones. Built a wall. For shelter. I respect nature and it's beauty but never
once did "I shouldn't be stacking these stones" cross my mind. There were
plenty of stones left!

My only issue with stone stacking would be if people intentionally did this to
throw people off a trail route. Even with a good map and compass a rock cairn
can be a godsend. Especially when you're in a boulder field.

Anyone doing this for Instagram likes is an idiot.

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2bitencryption
The article states:

"The calamity of the stone stack, in our anxious times, seems admittedly
minor. But it’s a prominent example of how social media can generate scale,
transforming an activity that would be mostly harmless in isolation into
something with planetary impact."

Does this mean, if I do not see any other rock stacks in a national park, I
can create my own, since there is no real harm unless it is done at scale? Or
would that also be wrong, since even if I am doing only one, it might
contribute to the next visitor also making one, and so on?

~~~
empath75
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox)

Example of the sorites paradox.

One isn’t a problem. Two isn’t a problem. You can keep saying oh one more
won’t be a problem until at some point it is.

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purplezooey
Initially I thought this was some metaphor, like trying to string too many
components together, or something, heh.

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JoeAltmaier
Making a mountain out of a mole hill?

