
Restarting America means people will die – five thinkers weigh moral choices - miobrien
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/magazine/coronavirus-economy-debate.html
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brm
We need 20 to 30 million tests a day to "restart" America. We can produce at
that level, but we're not. We can debate the moral choices once someone in
charge shows some competence. Until then it's basically insanity to have a
defined solution and not attempt it. We're in a hole and debating throwing
other people into holes instead of mass producing ladders.

~~~
JohnTHaller
We're barely testing anyone. I know of only two people tested among my NYC
friends. One who is still in the hospital after surgery to improve his
breathing. One who is a healthcare worker exposed to a known carrier. Two
other friends exposed to a known carrier who got sick couldn't get tested
because there weren't enough tests. Nor could the 5 others I know who had
COVID-19-like symptoms. Nor could I.

~~~
Exmoor
While I don't think anyone would argue that we are testing anything
approaching "enough" people in the US, I would certainly not say we're testing
"almost nobody". Looking at Politico's testing tracker (
[https://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-
testi...](https://www.politico.com/interactives/2020/coronavirus-testing-by-
state-chart-of-new-cases/) ), most states outside of the hotspots in the
Northeastern US have administered about 10x as many tests as they have
positive cases.

New York and the surrounding areas are obviously a different matter, but at
this stage I suspect that even if they did have enough physical tests and
capacity to process them they would not have anywhere near enough medical
staff to physically administer them. There's also the tradeoff that asking
hundreds of thousands of people to leave their dwellings to seek testing would
do more harm than good in areas where that necessarily involves walking,
public transportation, etc.

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save_ferris
> The United States has a whole lot of wounds from decades of racist policies
> and the criminalization of the poor. In 2011, Columbia did a study that
> we’ve updated: At least 250,000 people die every year from poverty in
> America. Now, in a pandemic, that’s an open fissure.

That’s an astounding figure, likely much higher than the final death toll for
American C-19 cases will be. If we accept that kind of annual figure without
collectively reflecting on our current system and its inequalities, what hope
do we really have long-term? So much of the country is still denial that this
is a real pandemic, we can’t even agree on that.

~~~
samatman
In 2018, ~2.8 million Americans died, and 11.8% were in poverty as defined by
the US Census criteria.

Presuming the numbers were slightly different in 2011, I have a cynical
picture of how that study came to its conclusion.

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neonate
[https://archive.md/AXPk6](https://archive.md/AXPk6)

~~~
dano
the archive.md link returns 403 forbidden.

~~~
Operyl
It seems if you’re using 1.1.1.1 as your resolver they (the website operator,
not Cloudflare) are returning that IP as their A record. Sigh.

~~~
akoster
9.9.9.9 (and 149.112.112.112) are working great if you need an alternative
public DNS server ([https://quad9.net](https://quad9.net))

~~~
Operyl
No, but thanks. I am of the opinion that if a provider is going to blacklist
me because of my choice of resolver, then they just are not worth my time
working around. I am quite happy with quad1 as my DNS provider, and these
archive services don't provide enough incentive for me to switch.

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tgafpc2
As if people don't die every day.

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rhacker
I keep thinking last few days, we need a communist mode. Basically, a way to
change all of the normal rules to option B when necessary. Instead of making
random laws that make no sense. A method of completely putting all existing
loans on pause - effectively not due and not late and the next payment is
effectively delayed until the communist mode is turned off. Communist mode
should go a lot farther, but you get the idea.

~~~
krapp
How about instead of a "communist mode" and "capitalist" mode, what if we do
what the rest of the civilized world does and have a "socialist" mode which
operates alongside capitalism and provides a robust social safety net, and we
considered actually funding and competently staffing government programs
rather than opting for the Grover Norquist model of constantly trying to
reduce government to "down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub"
and expecting the free market to pick up the slack in providing for the
general welfare?

And how about we finally realize that trying to run the American government
like a business and electing "CEOs in Chief" is a bad idea?

~~~
papermachete
We don't need safety nets, most people have good jobs and are only having
trouble because they have no savings and didn't otherwise plan for a crisis.
Good lesson in personal responsibility, keep my tax money elsewhere please.

------
Gatsky
This ‘dilemma’ shows with great clarity that the current economic system is
dysfunctional, fragile and ultimately inhumane.

~~~
microcolonel
Every economic system is fragile and has dysfunction. The question is: how do
we have less fragility and dysfunction; but I suspect you're getting at
something else.

~~~
viklove
Yes, and the answer is clearly not American capitalism

~~~
loopz
The answer will likely include some sort of Economy, but it has to have much
improved scope beyond Capitalism and needs to solve global problems.

