
Netflix CEO may have missed the real reason why US subscriber numbers plunged - hhs
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-too-much-content-could-be-hurting-netflixs-subscriber-numbers-2019-07-19
======
archey1
Netflix is just getting more expensive and less interesting to me. With all of
the content I like being taken off to be hosted on network exclusive streaming
platforms that I refuse to pay for - I'll probably eventually just cancel
Netflix as well going back to the tried and true method of just buying bluray
box-sets of the content I want to watch.

Or piracy.

I think the critical mistake that all these megacorps are making is that
people don't actually want to pay for a bazillion streaming services. That's
the reason we cut the cord in the first place. People hated being locked into
packages and this is basically the same thing - you need the "NBC" package for
The Office or the "CBS" package for Star Trek. I can't be bothered to spend
all that money.

Netflix was worth it because it made accessing so much content easier than
piracy, but with everything getting pushed into a walled garden "package"
approach again...piracy will be easier again.

I get HD over the air with less than a dozen chanels, and that's often enough
to keep me distracted if I'm not feeling up to playing a videogame or watching
a movie.

~~~
noelsusman
Of course people would rather pay $10 a month to access everything, but that's
just not sustainable. Look at Netflix's own financials. They got into content
creation and they're now deep in debt despite their massive subscriber base.

I also don't get why everyone is clamoring for one company to control all
video entertainment distribution. Isn't that what we hated about cable? Didn't
we beg for the ability to pick and choose what we actually want to pay for?
Now we finally have that and people instantly want to go back? Why?

If Netflix doesn't make enough content that interests you then stop giving
them money and give it to whoever does instead. I thought this is what we
wanted.

~~~
atombender
People aren't asking for a single distribution channel in the sense of a
single monolithic company owning all the IP. They do want (1) convenient apps
that aggregate, such as Apple TV and Amazon Prime Video, and (2) a way to get
all the content without having to pay lots of individual companies (I'm
subscribing to around 5 streaming services myself).

Why can't video be like music? Spotify and Apple Music aggregate pretty much
all the music in the world now. You don't have to sign up Warner and Sony and
a thousand other labels to play music. There are stragglers, of course, but
they're getting fewer. If this model works for Spotify et al, why can't it
work for movies and TV?

Moreover, all the music is licensed through a single IP rights licensing
system. It's what allows music to be played on the radio and so on. I know
very little about how it works technically, but it seems to work just fine.

~~~
dragonwriter
> Why can't video be like music?

Music is still fighting being “like music”.

> Spotify and Apple Music aggregate pretty much all the music in the world
> now.

There have been a number of recent media reports about how exclusives, which
never were absent from streaming music, are playing a bigger role now.

> You don't have to sign up Warner and Sony and a thousand other labels to
> play music.

Well, yeah, we haven't gotten to the point of the content owners taking their
ball and going home in music yet, we’re in more the Netflix and Blockbuster
bidding for exclusives phase when it comes to music. But we know where that
ends up.

> Moreover, all the music is licensed through a single IP rights licensing
> system.

No, it's not, it's just that public performance licensing has a small number
of agencies that most artists are affiliated with, and offer blanket licenses,
so you don't usually have to deal with individual content owners.

But no one is putting the ki d of money into an album they do into a major
motion picture and hoping for that kind of return, so video (at least the top
tier) isn't going to look like that.

~~~
lonelappde
Right. Streaming video will be like Spotify as soon as Disney+ finishes buying
every IP franchise.

~~~
NotSammyHagar
I wonder how far they can go before they are told they can't buy anything
more? I think they have too much right now.

~~~
Nexxius
Probably at about the same point Taco Bell is viewd as "Fine Dining"

------
isbjorn16
My problem with Netflix isn't the slate of shows and movies it has in its
catalog. It's definitely not as nice as it used to be, but there are a jillion
and a half shows and movies out there.

My problem is that Netflix has taken note that we watch anime a few times a
week, which doubtless means we want every single band/carousel/whatever to be
about anime. New Anime, Critically Acclaimed Anime, Popular Anime, Watch it
Again Anime, Anime Where Characters Wear Hats, Anime Where Characters Float in
Hats, and Anime About Hat Making.

For the love of all let me get some other options in the fucking list before I
lose my mind. I like comedies, action movies, sci-fi, documentaries, and
historical dramatizations or historical fictions too, you know. Not everything
has to have a talking cat in it.

~~~
adrianmonk
Once upon a time, Netflix gave away $1 million to contest winners in an
attempt to get the best recommendation algorithm they could (
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize)
).

Now the recommendations are just not that great. It's like they're not trying
too hard because they are comfy in their market position.

I have never watched _any_ anime at all (really not my thing), but Netflix
keeps recommending it to me despite the fact that I haven't taken the bait
once.

Also it recommends shows to me that it should know through history I've
already watched every episode of. Maybe that's on purpose since people watch
things again, but I still don't find it useful.

Also it leaves stuff in "Continue Watching" for like a month after I give it a
thumbs down rating and remove it from "My List". That should be a strong
enough signal to act on.

And it seems to recommend stuff based on stuff that I only "watched" because
it auto-played. That should _not_ be a strong enough signal to act on.

The overall point is they seem to have several obvious opportunities to be
smarter with content discovery, but they're not taking them.

~~~
isbjorn16
Wait where's the thumbs down rating?

~~~
saurik
Next to the thumbs up rating (they only have two possible ratings). It might
be confusing as you sometimes (at least on iOS) have to click a thumbs up icon
to be shown the actual options with the thumbs down?

~~~
isbjorn16
I suspect they don't have it at all on their Roku channel :( I'll look again
tonight, but if I can start downvoting these things, I can at least feel like
I'm screaming "no" into the void, which is better than screaming "no"
internally. Nobody wants to live through an "I have no mouth and I must
scream" nightmare, after all.

~~~
adrianmonk
Netflix has thumbs down on Roku. That's where I use Netflix primarily, so I'm
sure I've used it there.

------
teilo
Netflix is becoming more and more of a frustrating experience. First they
removed all user reviews. Then they removed ratings. (or vice versa.
Whatever.) They constantly shift things around in their UI. Even things like
"My List" and "Continue Watching" will spontaneously move. They hide
categories, and sub-categories, making browsing and discovery a pain. They
constantly throw crap at me that I don't care about and will never care about.
They auto-play previews, with audio, and there is no damn way to turn it off.
Thumbs up/down seems to have no effect on this either. I thumbs down what I
don't want to see, and it keeps coming back anyway.

It's almost as if there is a concerted effort at Netflix to force specific
content down your throat. They don't want you going beyond what's visible on
their idiotic horizontal scrollers, and they don't want you to know what
people actually think about the content they are forcing on you.

~~~
SkyPuncher
Having listened to podcasts with several important Netflix people as guests, I
have picked up that they are unintentionally user hostile. They're so focused
on data that it seems they completely forget about the intangible side of
enjoying the user experience.

Seems like they can't see the forest for the trees.

~~~
vl
The problem is that optimizing for long-term satisfaction metrics is extremely
tricky and hard. Such metrics lead to the better user retention, potentially
even with less watch time. Paradoxically higher watch time may lead to lower
user satisfaction (and decreased retention).

In ML world these metrics require combining DNNs with methods like Q-learning.
YouTube learned these lessons and now probably has the most advanced ML among
competition in its’ recommendation system.

~~~
goalieca
Watch time is bullshit. Focus on making a quality product that people enjoy.
My goal in life is not to spend any more time in front of the tv than 1-2
hours per day. Usually it’s just before bed when I relax.

------
hyencomper
I think Netflix has lost touch with their consumer base, with most changes
such as removal of the rating system being universally criticized. I cancelled
my subscription recently as I realized that while Netflix has a lot of shows,
there is a dearth of quality content and the search function is not useful.
With shows like Friends and Office leaving, there is not much to draw people
who like leaving it on in the background. Also, the auto-playing of trailers
at full volume is super-annoying.

~~~
happytoexplain
>the auto-playing of trailers at full volume is super-annoying.

This was baffling to me. I've rarely had such a stressful user experience as a
trailer playing every single time I stop pressing the arrow buttons for a few
seconds. Just because I stopped pressing buttons doesn't mean I want to see a
trailer for whatever I happened to stop on - it means I'm thinking about
something, or reading something, or looking at some other part of the screen,
or am not even looking at my TV any more. It's hard to imagine a more
malicious UX than one that plays video and audio at you every time you _are
not giving input_. And because it's difficult to even find a state in that UI
where you don't have something selected, I found it impossible to "escape" the
trailers. It made me feel like I was in an advertising dystopia.

~~~
jhallenworld
My theory is that it increases the likelihood that you'll stop browsing and
just watch something. This would reduce the variety of shows that people watch
and ease the requirements on their servers.

~~~
afiori
I think more than server strain it could be meant to avoid the "mah, I looked
for 20 minutes and found nothing, maybe I should just delete the subscription"

------
krisroadruck
Is it that people don't know what they want to watch? Or is it that what they
want to watch isn't in the netflix catalog. 9/10 times I have a specific movie
or show in mind that I want to watch and I search for it on netflix it tells
me it is only available to be shipped via DVD or bluray and its not available
in their online catalog.

Maybe if they spent less money on trying to develop their own content and more
money licensing the best content to come out over the past 30 years then there
would be more engagement. The percentage of the top 1000 or so movies as rated
on IMDB or Rotten tomatoes that is NOT on netflix is staggering.

When we all bought into the concept of netflix a decade or so back it was on
the premise of all-you-can-eat on demand access to the largest/most inclusive
catalog of movies and shows anywhere. They long ago ditched that model and
they are suffering as a result.

It's not even that you can't get the latest blockbusters, its that you can't
get most highly rated movies from ANY of the last 3-4 decades. But movies
rated 5/10 or lower? Seems like they've managed to license just about every
one of those. Bleh.

~~~
sfink
I suspect that isn't netflix's decision to make. Everyone is trying to get
into the streaming market these days, and the only way to capture subscribers
is to offer up content that other services don't have, which means they're
willing to burn huge piles of investor money to lock up exclusive rights.

Yes, it defeats the whole point of streaming subscriptions. Yes, it'll drive a
large segment of the subscriber base back to piracy. But it's a classic
prisoner's dilemma.

As long as I'm speculating about shit i know nothing about, I'll follow up by
predicting that the next wave - after things get bad enough - is cross-
licensing deals between the bigger surviving players. That'll improve the
value proposition to subscribers (great for us!) and also raise barriers to
entry, so next will be the price gouging. Oh, and somewhere in there will be
the contracts that prevent content creators/distributors from licensing new
stuff to anyone else (unless they _are_ one of the surviving streaming
services.)

------
sundayedition
There is a lot of what I'd consider "noise" popping up on Netflix that they
won't let me filter out. I don't care for most dubbed shows, and I haven't had
any luck with any of the foreign imports. No way to filter them out that I'm
aware of, so half of the "New shows" don't appeal to me

I wouldn't give up Netflix for cable, it's more likely to be Prime only, or
something with quality content that I wouldn't watch as often because they
don't have as much variety (HBO, Showtime, AMC, CBS)

Stranger things was released and we watched that but I haven't been on Netflix
in weeks since; another price hike and the values no longer likely there for
me.

~~~
ryanianian
Netflix is blatantly user-hostile. The UX is designed to get you to spend more
time with Netflix, not to make you like it more.

Many of the shows it suggests to me are _not in english_ , yet the UX rarely
discloses this in the description or (infuriatingly auto-playing) preview.
Some people don't mind reading subtitles but I detest it - they could at least
tell me the show is in German before wasting my time.

~~~
yeahforsureman
Just out of general interest, do you watch foreign TV and movies at all then?
If not, why?

Or just dubbed? If so, how do you bear it?

~~~
reificator
Not the GP, but:

> _Just out of general interest, do you watch foreign TV and movies at all
> then? If not, why?_

Because it's an additional barrier to enjoyment.

Dubs are irritating and often lose cultural context. From your post I think
we're in agreement there.

Subs mean I have to watch intently, I can't cook dinner/play a video
game/clean the house/fold laundry while I'm listening and glance over at the
screen every few seconds. And I don't spend much time doing nothing but watch
TV, unless it's a show I really care about. Stranger Things 3 got my
uninterrupted attention this last week.

I'm not against watching foreign media, but it's a negative modifier to my
chances to watch it. If I get a recommendation from someone I trust, I'm much
more likely, but then I have to set aside time to do nothing but watch it.

As a side note, if I get a recommendation from someone with an anime avatar,
I'm much less likely to watch it. I don't care that "it's not a 12 year old
girl, it's a 500 year old dragon that looks like a 12 year old girl." It's
still creepy.

~~~
ryanianian
Movie recommendations are either deeply generic (other movies in the same
genre) or deeply personal (recommendations on myriad things apart from genre).
Netflix has tried (and imho failed) at the deeply personal style.

So I agree with your comment except for the anime avatar aside. I personally
don't trust 90% of movie recommendations, even from friends. It has to be
somebody who I know has good (for me) taste. I don't think avatar-selection
would correlate one way or another with movie-selection :)

------
throwaway_009
They started going downhill with every original show losing logical
consistency after the 1st or 2nd season, political pandering instead of
offering good quality entertainment. And the removal of the user reviews was a
degrade, as they want to push bad shows to users and waste their time, instead
of letting them make an informed choice. I hope they get disrupted because of
their arrogance.

~~~
happytoexplain
>political pandering instead of offering good quality entertainment

This, unfortunately, is the ultimate double-edged sword. It would be a very
safe and content-less world indeed if fictional media did not in some what
appear to address or include something political in nature. Usually when we
feel like what we're watching is _not_ political, it's actually because it's
simply political in ways that we identify with or do not find offensive.

~~~
brighter2morrow
>Usually when we feel like what we're watching is not political, it's actually
because it's simply political in ways that we identify with or do not find
offensive.

I'd be interested to see a show that has nationalistic/right-wing assumptions.
Any good examples?

~~~
pessimizer
Every military show or show about terrorists? The Six is a Seal Team 6 show.
Anne Heche just had a show called The Brave that got cancelled. The Last Ship
is military science fiction.

I admit that it's going to be very difficult to find an explicit white
nationalist show, but military/terrorist paranoid-style shows are a dime a
dozen.

~~~
mcantelon
SEAL Team Six is best known for a raid during the Obama administration. Modern
progressives seem to have less of a problem with the military than old school
leftists (and less of a focus, politically, on foreign policy) hence simple
glorification of the military seem pretty centrist.

------
rubyn00bie
I used to like Netflix content because it felt like they were telling me a
story which they had thought through and I would get to see to its end... or
I'd even finally get an ending to some shows other networks/services killed
too soon. To me, Netflix content strategy was saying "storytelling is what is
important," and "we want to make sure we find and tell the best stories." New
ones, old ones, great stories just the same...

Anymore, I do not believe this to be true, and feel sort of silly for thinking
it ever was true. It's become quite obvious their strategy is create new shows
to lure people in, and then cancel them (because they'd have to pay the stars
more), rinse repeat, hoping more people stay than leave. They do not care
about finishing the stories they're telling, or the stories at all, they don't
care about content, they care about growth.

Honestly, anymore, I don't even want to watch Netflix shows because they'll
probably get canceled before they end.

Edit: small grammar fix

------
zadkey
I think Netflix needs to invest in quality over quantity. I agree, its hard to
find something I want to watch. There is definitely choice fatigue.

If they had 1/3 as many shows but those shows were 3 times better. I am sure I
would have no problem.

~~~
canada_dry
My take on the issue is that the whole tv/movie/entertainment industry far too
insular!

It's a relatively small clique of writers, producers, directors and actors
that they keep throwing money at despite failure after failure.

What they need to do is stop with the incestuous industry patronage and get
fresh blood!

Perhaps we need an "America's Got Talent" equivalent for writers/producers to
pitch their show ideas and let people have a crack at it.

~~~
techsin101
I agree as an immigrant i noticed stories told in country I came from and in
USA are limited to certain types and different from each other. They follow
cultural norms so rigorously that no matter the topic overall it looks like it
was another event in the same city/country/culture. Even historical
reanimations are very influenced by current culture to point they are simply
false depictions. So yes, no matter how much writers try they have lived a
life very similar to each other. Maybe I should write stories.

------
jupiter90000
There is something to be said about the Nielsen hypothesis given -- finding
something to watch takes effort, and starts taking more time the more one has
already seen. My wife and I can spend upwards of 30+ minutes trying to find
something we want to see and haven't already watched. Especially for just some
casual 'background' watching, just putting on a channel on TV with some
acceptable type of programming focus is alot easier than digging for it.

Btw, for Netflix I usually just do a trial when a new Stranger Things season
comes out, watch it all and maybe a few of their new movies, then cancel.

------
b3b0p
I feel like I might be in the minority opinion on this, but I don't enjoy any
of the Netflix originals they keep pumping out. At least not enough to spend
time on them. I don't like the Marvel shows, Stranger Things was okay I guess
maybe, but I don't enjoy them enough like for example Game of Thrones or The
Fabulous Miss Maisel or some of the others from HBO, Showtime or surprisingly
Amazon. Most if not all the Netflix original content is B quality to me at
best. Low production, not interesting, bad dialogue, bad stories, etc...

I have limited time. I try to spend it wisely. I'd rather use my wasted time
on something far more enjoyable, like playing my NES or reading a book or
movie, or even watch something of higher quality and production value (HBO is
pretty reliable for that or a movie on my backlog). Or even just get out and
go somewhere to see and meet people.

Right now my only subscription service is Funimation ($5/month). I like
watching dubbed anime late at night too chill out before bed. Currently
(re)watching Black Lagoon (it's so great!) and the Mix Simuldub. With a side
of computer science books on my backlog with some related videos or courses as
well as a good book which right now is Snow Crash (embarrassingly I have not
read this yet).

------
tedsanders
There's something I don't understand, but I'd like to. Most of the criticisms
of Netflix I see fall into two buckets:

One common criticism is that Netflix is worse than regular TV, because having
to actively choose a Netflix show is more stressful than regular TV, where you
can just turn it on, sit back, and relax.

The second common criticism I read is that Netflix is annoying, because as
soon as you turn it on, it starts autoplaying videos at you in obnoxious
attempt to grab your interest and attention.

Like, aren't these two criticisms completely opposite? Regular TV always
autoplays at full volume. What nuance would help me understand why autoplaying
is annoying on Netflix but not annoying on regular TV?

(Disclosure: I work at Netflix, am speaking purely in a personal capacity, but
would love to make things better for people to the extent that I can.)

~~~
ryanthemadone
Trying to find something to watch on Netflix is definitely a chore, having
stuff autoplay isn't facilitating that search - the feature often 'gets in the
way' painfully and makes me mute my TV.

I don't have a regular TV service anymore, but I suspect it's quite easy to
flip it on, jump to the guide (which probably isn't blaring loud stuff at you)
and scan the currently airing shows for something you're familiar with and you
like.

So no contradiction as far as I can tell.

My Netflix experience is one where I often have 2-3 shows that I'm currently
watching. I want those shows front and center when I log in, perhaps with
recommendations for similar shows alongside. It would be even cooler if two
shows I was watching had recommendations that crossed over both of them. I
should also be able to "close" a series I've started watching, but decided I
don't want to watch anymore.

When I don't have active shows that I'm watching I kind of want Netflix to
help me find stuff based on my viewing history, right now I have IMDb and
other apps open on my phone so that I can check community scores and reviews
of content I don't know about, whatever dumb business strategy decision
prohibited that data being in the Netflix app should be rescinded immediately.
Heck I should be able to pull up all sci-fi, filter for stuff I haven't seen,
filter for TV series, movie or whatever, order by rotten tomatoes score and
then filter for stuff that isn't space based or something. You get the gist,
there's so much Netflix could be doing to enable discoverability.

------
heymijo
> _If video streaming subscribers don’t know what they want to watch, they’re
> almost twice as likely to tune into their favorite broadcast television
> channel (58%) rather than browse through the menus of their streaming
> services (33%), according to the research from Nielsen._

> _Research by behavioral psychologists has shown that too many choices can
> overwhelm consumers, create the unpleasant feeling known as “decision
> fatigue” and sometimes leading them to shut down and walk away from a
> potential purchase._

> _Television viewers also need to choose what channel to watch. Yet part of
> the allure might be how television just beams whatever’s on the channel
> instead presenting viewers with even more options on what to watch._

Maybe Netflix hasn't missed this at all. Maybe this is the functionality
they're after with the auto-start/preview of any show you hover over.

~~~
gnicholas
Does this 58% statistic come from a sample of people who actually have
broadcast TV access and streaming access? I, for one, have never had broadcast
TV access as an adult, and the most recent "TV" I purchased was actually a 48"
Vizio display that has no coax input.

I was surprised by this number and assume they were only looking at people who
actually have access to both. If that's the case, what is the number among the
total universe of streaming video users?

------
ineedasername
We seem to be reaching peak streaming, the point at which the addition of more
streaming services may result in a net loss of streaming consumption because
the interesting content is too spread out and it's too expensive or
inconvenient to subscribe to them all.

It's rather like each streaming service is turning into its own version of a
TV channel. It's almost the vision of a'la cart cable pricing, only each
channel is too expensive and the UX too cumbersome to subscribe to more than a
small handful.

Perhaps in a few years, streaming aggregators will appear and bundle a bunch
of services together, and the internet will have reinvented Cable TV.

------
noisy_boy
Things I dislike about Netflix:

1\. Auto-playing trailers

2\. Stop showing me stuff I have already seen (I can search it if I want to).
Atleast add a "don't show this again" button

3\. Auto-playing stuff I have already seen to rub it in

4\. No system of reviews/ratings - I have to manually check IMDB or Rotten
Tomatoes

5\. "More like this" doesn't really show things that are more like "this".
Also, if I like a comedian's special and click "more like this" for their
other works, I rarely get more than one or two

I am seriously contemplating to unsubscribe - hardly use it anyway due to lack
of quality content.

------
gen3
I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix comes out with a "TV Mode" soon, that
allows you to pick from personal channels similar to how music streaming
services have weekly mixes.

~~~
keanebean86
Actually a random play actually sounds interesting to me. They know what I
like already. I don't want it on by default. Just a link to play a random
show/movie and let me skip/hide if it sucks.

~~~
InitialLastName
I've been pondering a feature like this for a while to replicate my youthful
viewing habits.

When I was younger, I would get home from school and watch a few hours of TV.
The channel I watched would syndicate sitcoms in blocks, same show at a given
time, played in episode order (but a few different shows over the afternoon).

What I'd love from netflix is to be able to put together a list of shows I'm
watching right now and have it run a playlist in random order by show, but
with the episodes in the correct order per show.

~~~
gen3
and it would all be ad free! It would be all the good parts of TV, but even
better.

------
throwaway082729
There's nothing worth watching in Netflix now. I find myself spending more
time on Prime Video where I can find richer content through Prime movies and
subscription channels like HBO, Starz and PBS (for British murder mystery
shows). Moreover, Netflix is getting its recommendations for me completely
wrong. Without user reviews, I've no idea if the content is good. I'm not
going to waste my time watching some random show if I find that it's crappy 2
episodes in. Prime on the other hand shows me IMDB ratings (which are good
enough) along with user ratings.

~~~
jhallenworld
Amazon has the interesting idea of making it as easy as possible to buy a
subscription (to Starz, HBO) and then cancel it later when you are no longer
interested. I think this is very important in the future, where every content
producer wants to have their own Netflix.

The advantage that Amazon offers, is that you only have to learn how to cancel
a channel on Amazon, and not on 10 different websites..

~~~
penagwin
What you're describing is a "streaming service aggregator" which would be
great but I doubt many streaming services will want to be apart of (Talking
netflix, hulu, etc).

------
droithomme
There's multiple reasons. Not all these reasons are being discussed. Valid
reasons discussed get censored.

Netflix had great technology and business plan and management executed it well
for many years.

I reluctantly dumped it all in late May. I'd been watching it carefully after
in December they hired an activist executive from ABC who cares more for
political correctness than profitability. Dumping at the end of May proved
smart and I'm pretty happy with my half million in locked in gains.

Netflix is now going to descend to $190 or so. Maybe it comes back from that.
Maybe. Only if they make changes. After it hits rock bottom, if it then comes
back up to $300 I'll reinvest.

Those of you who didn't dump your stock yet, fasten your seatbelts and good
luck to you. Hopefully I'm just a crank.

------
zizee
I'd really like Netflix to add a feature of "hide this shitty show from me
forever because I will never watch it", it would be an obvious win from a
user's perspective.

Why don't Netflix provide this? Because people would quickly realize how
little in their catalog is worth watching.

------
_bxg1
Uhh... yeah... I would never consider cable networks "trusted sources".

I do experience decision fatigue sometimes when streaming, but my solution is
just to have a couple of comfort-sitcoms always on-hand, not to subject myself
to an endless pipeline of advertisements and low-budget reality TV.

------
pixelbath
I just don't feel like Netflix is made to make my video viewing experience
better anymore. They don't take customer feedback seriously, they're removing
features that people obviously love, and becoming victims of the ever-growing
race to "increase engagement."

1\. Autoplaying trailers: Netflix straight-up says that's not going away
([https://twitter.com/Netflixhelps/status/947587245086859265](https://twitter.com/Netflixhelps/status/947587245086859265)),
and I haven't met a single person who actually likes it. When stopping to talk
about a show, my wife just mutes the television on the main screen, and I
navigate to the Search screen, which is the only one that doesn't autoplay
_something_. It's almost hostile amount of "HERE LOOK AT THIS SHOW" going on,
and I despise it.

2\. Removing reviews: If you've been on Netflix long enough, chances are you
remember the pages-long reviews left by extremely passionate users on all
kinds of films. Netflix just decided one day to throw all that away, probably
because negative reviews decreased engagement or some other silly reason. The
users added value to your service, and you actively threw it out. This also
had the side-effect of tossing aside the count of films I've watched or rated,
which I found to be an interesting bit of data.

3\. Shuffling algorithms: Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have a difficult
time navigating _to_ anything that's not a specific title. Genres, their weird
made-up categories ("Comic Book Superhero Movies" or "Classic Sci-Fi and
Fantasy"), or even foreign films. There's no way to browse this stuff unless
the category happens to pop-up on screen. In addition, the "Continue Watching"
category moves around randomly. Sometimes it's right at the top, sometimes 3
pages down. Similarly, why is "My List" not always at the top? It used to be a
top-level navigation element.

4\. Already seen: There's no way to hide anything in the UI. Not things I
watched, not things I'm uninterested in, and certainly not things I dislike. I
used to be able to signal disinterest in shows; now I can't.

I could go on at length despite having already done so, but I think there's
more at play here than Netflix's catalog. They're showing that all they're
chasing is more money and bigger deals, and damn what the users think. Maybe
I'm wrong; maybe it really is their "content slate drove less growth in paid
net adds" this quarter, but I'm willing to bet that (at least in part) it's
because even Hulu, owned by a bunch of traditional television media
corporations, gives more consideration to its users.

~~~
programmertote
I share the same thoughts. That's why I even wonder how data scientists and
UX/UI folks, who work at Netflix, feel like when their recommendations to the
management are not heeded by the latter. Maybe Netflix data scientists have a
hard time finding useful insights out of the trove of data they have.

------
drenvuk
Sounds like they just need to take a page from Spotify's playbook and start
just shoving fully autoplayed best matching shows down people's throats.
They'll be happier being force fed with no options.

weird but plausible.

~~~
jdsully
Worked wonders for broadcast and cable TV.

~~~
drenvuk
I don't see why Netflix can't provide the best of both worlds.

edit: btw I'm a huge fan of your work with keydb.

~~~
jdsully
They are getting there with their auto-play functionality. The missing piece
is themed “channels”.

P.s. Thanks for your kind words. I’m always open to feedback/suggestions for
KeyDB. Feel free to open a GitHub issue at any time.

------
not_a_cop75
If people are always engaged in videos like TV and movies, they are generally
less engaged in their own life - which is generally pretty unhealthy. I think
people have come to realize that they don't need to watch stuff streaming all
the time. They can read a book, or go outside, and even interact with real
people.

Several online offerings offer zilch in the way of true health benefits.

~~~
darepublic
Agree with you that constant screen time doesn't make for a healthy lifestyle.
Seems pretty speculative and prob too optimistic to assume people are coming
to this realization and acting on it.

~~~
snr
This.

------
pok1poekpo12
Anecdotally, I don't think it is choice fatigue that is causing a subscriber
drop. I think it reflects a drop in the quality of their original content.

Compare early black mirror to what it is now. It's become far less of a
"thinking" show, and much more of a "You should accept this, you shouldn't
accept this" show.

------
rajacombinator
I was happy paying for Netflix when they made 2-3 A list shows per year and
1-2 B list shows. Now they make 50 F list shows per quarter by the people who
were so bad that Hollywood wouldn’t hire them. (Amy Schumer, etc.) Couldn’t be
happier to not pay!

------
rossdavidh
So, I am reminded of a point in the "early" (that is, early as a consumer
venue) internet, when there was a lot of great content, but no good search
engines. It did not send people back to pre-internet sources, nor do I think
the current situation will send people back to their network broadcast
channel. But I think there is a real problem, which is that there are more and
more good shows, and no more hours in the day. It feels...a bit like too many
companies chasing any finite-sized market. It feels like just before the
crash.

It's hard for the world to ever admit it, especially the U.S., but maybe we
don't actually need to have this many shows?

------
rahulsom
Nielsen's unable to offer value to streaming services. Their technology and
service only work with traditional broadcast television. They would like to
see streaming services to send them their data so they can sell it back to
them. Streaming services don't benefit from such an agreement. Netflix has
been in the streaming business for 10+ years, as has Hulu. For Nielsen to say
they can tell these services how streaming customers behave is a bit too
presumptuous. Keep in mind, some of these new customers have never subscribed
to broadcast television. There's possibly even a generational gap in their
behavior.

~~~
noitsnot
Nielsen claimed to be able to track Netflix efficiently two years ago.

------
low_key
First, I'll admit that I'm still a subscriber.

For me, the biggest problem with Netflix is the user interface. The auto-
playing audio and video at every corner is extremely annoying. The used car
dealership feel of it is stressful, which is exactly the opposite of what I
want when I'm ready to watch a show or movie.

They have some content that I like and I'll watch it when I know _exactly_
what I want to see before I open the app. If not, then I don't go to Netflix
anymore, it is just too hostile.

------
musha68k
Netflix to me is not much more than a pretty bland version of Huxley's
"Feelies". Actually most modern TV show stories would fit nicely into one or
two well edited movies. I find all of this very comparable to the food in our
super markets - lots of nutritionally empty calories and cheap canola oil.
Time badly wasted and truly dystopian - all this zombie-like "binging" is way
worse than "bread and games".

~~~
chadcmulligan
Yes, this is what I'm finding with many Netflix shows, they are extended
movies. The problem is that each episode isn't really an episode, it has no
"arc". Like when you watch NCIS for example, there's resolution after an hour
or so. There's sometimes a bigger plot line if you watch all the episodes in a
series but you don't have to.

..and because its better for them once they've hooked you to keep you there,
the series usually provides a cliff hanger, but many times the series isn't
renewed so the risk/investment in time is high. If it is renewed then they
really have no new idea so they just rehash the first series and do it again
(e.g. the OA, I guess, I stopped after the beginning of the second series). So
you never get the closure you get from watching an old school tv series or
movie, there's no high's or low's of a good story, there's just time used up.

------
geodel
Well Netflix is now big enough where what their CEO want and what middle
management chose to implement will be different things.

On tech side despite all their tech wizardry I get this feeling that this
company is overwhelmed with Java design pattern types. On business side it's
full of too clever by half folks who would think every user hostile feature is
great if it improves some bullshit metrics.

------
iscrewyou
They raised the prices and then the news came out that they are removing two
of their most popular shows. I was ok with the price increase. But now they
removed stuff I watch, this new price on my monthly subscriptions has me
asking “what am I paying for?”

They are double dipping to increase production of Netflix shows. More power to
them. But don’t remove the things people are actually watching the most.

------
pteredactyl
They need a 'Non-Netflix Content' filter.

------
residentfoam
I find myself browsing Netflix but not finding anything interesting. Old
movies and low-quality content. I am deleting the subscription.

------
kara_jade
Well, I can tell the Netflix CEO why they have lost me as a subscriber:

\- Their original content is not terribly appealing to me.

\- They lack much of the content I want to watch (and in Germany the selection
of content is much, much smaller to begin with).

\- They have a horrendous user interface. Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I
like lists. And even one big list with all the content Netflix offers would be
far superior to their interface. I’m not interested in their recommendation
algorithms or their peculiar categorization, I want to sift through their
metadata on my own terms. Give me a big, filterable list. (That is something
that bugs me about every streaming service: you are heavily restricted when it
comes to searching and filtering.)

I have found that my local library has actually a very good selection of DVDs
and Blu-rays. So they have become a reliable source of content. Other than
that I occasionally buy used or new media cheaply. And for special interests
(Anime) I have the net.

------
miguelmota
It seems like Netflix is focusing on quantity rather than quality. They crank
out a ton of Netflix Originals but they're all pretty uninteresting and almost
seems tailored to high schoolers. I get that they're trying to capture young
audiences but the content has sucked for a while and their lack of inventory
of non-Netflix Original movies is what caused me to cancel my subscription
last year.

Would think that most people don't sign up for Netflix for their Netflix
Original content and those that do end up disappointed after realizing that
Netflix doesn't offer recent or classic movies.

I remember when I could stream on multiple devices and watch classic TV shows
which was awesome but now it's more expensive with all the different
subscription tiers and they've removed some of my favorite shows.

Spotify subscribers get offered a Hulu subscription for free (comes with ads
though). Hulu has the good classic shows that Netflix no longer has.

------
m0zg
Or it could just be that their catalog is 99% unwatchable garbage and they
keep raising the prices every year anyway.

~~~
DeonPenny
Its actually really good and their orginals are usually better than everything
else they have.

~~~
PenguinCoder
That's part of the problem. People aren't getting Netflix to watch their
original programming.

------
habosa
I signed up for Netflix because the original (maybe too good to be true)
premise was that I'd be able to stream basically everything in one place. The
key is that I came to stream shows that I already watched but which had no
home on the internet.

Now Netflix is a place to watch shows and movies made by Netflix. So it's like
HBO, but more quantity and less quality. My favorite "comfort food" shows like
The Office, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, etc are slowly leaving the
service.

So I find my Netflix account collecting digital dust most of the time. More
and more I find myself liking YouTube TV. It gives me mindless channel
flipping, live sports, and the cloud DVR gives me a pseudo-netflix where I
have every episode of all my favorite shows ready at a click (I just need to
fast-forward recorded commercials).

------
someexgamedev
Cable subscriptions are a single subscription that gives you access to
everyone's content. Netflix's digital innovation is that they did it at a
tenth the price.

Now that all the content creators have realized the digital value of their
content, it doesn't matter for Netflix whether those networks splinter it out
into 20 different subscriptions or hide it behind 1 expensive cable
subscription again. Netflix doesn't have that content so they lose either way.

Their only way forward is to become just another content network, OR a cable
provider with the same elevated subscription cost. Whichever way they lean,
the stock will tumble until they're in line with all their competitors. The
gap has been closed.

------
jillesvangurp
They raised their prices and shut down several popular series early. I
cancelled my subscription last week because I was finding it hard to find
something good to watch that I hadn't seen yet. I'm now catching up on a few
things on Amazon Prime like the Expanse season 3, American Gods, Good Omens
and a few other things. I will probably switch back in a few months when
Netflix has added a few things that I might want to see. They do have a few
series that they haven't killed yet that I would want to see. Apparently, they
keep your profile and settings for 10 months. This suggests that I'm not the
only one shopping around.

------
elamje
The difficulty with Netflix and the like moving to a platform with a
recommendation engine, is that no matter how good the machine learning is, it
will have a strong incentive(minimization function) to show cheap content.
Netflix has awesome blockbusters, but you will see the Netflix label and
smaller budget movies higher in your recommendations because it cuts Netflix’s
cost. In other words Netflix has to pay a lot more $ per view of blockbusters
from big Hollywood studios than it does for private label movies and shows.

If Netflix can have 10x the amount of private label hits like House of Cards
and Black Mirror, they will do fine.

------
raylangivens
I am based out of the Asian sub-continent. I cut the cord on my Netflix
subscription 5 months ago.

I only have a Prime Video subscription and a Hotstar subscription (for Live
football, tennis etc). Netflix started becoming a place which would have
content that I absoultely didn't want to watch and there were gazillion such
titles.

I felt that a reduced set of options that Hotstar (which has license to HBO-
content) and Prime Video was good enough for me. I felt I had too many options
on Netflix and didn't want the overhead to select one.

As for some of the content on Netflix that I do like for e.g. Narcos &
Mindhunter, Piracy FTW.

------
allthecybers
I'm interested to see how this plays out. Netflix will either figure it out
and survive or they'll continue to shed subscribers and get acquired by Apple
to augment AppleTV. I say that partly in jest.

My Netflix was cancelled about 6 months ago. It felt like it was another
version of Facebook... great for mindless scrolling but nothing that made me
want to stop scrolling and watch. Part of it was the loss of several favorite
shows making the service not worth the price plus the price of other
subscriptions. I would say the same about Prime Video if it wasn't free with
Amazon Prime.

------
jimbob45
They lost all their content because everyone else wanted to hoard it for their
own services. That's fine, I'm a faithful consumer and I'll do my part against
shady practices.

Then they put out substandard SJW shows like Bright and Jessica Jones. That's
still okay, not every show is targeted to me and they still weren't conducting
shady business practices so they were still a good company in my eyes.

Then they put out 13 Reasons Why. All my goodwill toward them was lost and my
subscription was canceled within the month.

------
magicalhippo
Personally I often don't want to invest too much into starting a new series,
and I don't have time for an entire movie.

I also often want to learn new things, or see something interesting. So I turn
to YouTube, with all the creative folks uploading interesting and engaging
videos about all sorts.

I think Netflix is missing something by focusing entirely on TV series and
movies. Give me something interesting I can watch for 15, 30, 45 minutes that
doesn't require the kind of mental investment a TV series does.

------
ryanmcbride
Netflix was so great when their streaming service started, and even back when
they only did DVDs by mail. It was so cool that I had access to so many movies
and shows in once place.

Now that every broadcast company has their own streaming service with their
own fees, streaming is almost as bad as network TV. (at least with streaming
you don't have to watch reruns unless you want)

I've gone full into Plex now. That seems to be the only way to have a
watchable selection of stuff in one place now.

------
dkersten
I used Netflix because it was convenient. I don't watch much, so when there
were fewer things that I was interested in, there was no point in keeping my
subscriptions. I never signed up for any of the other streaming services
because they didn't fulfill my requirements of convenient since I'd have to
manage multiple accounts. I just watch even less now and spend my time on
other, more rewarding, things. No big loss.

------
codeisawesome
I unsubscribed from Netflix because in Singapore too many of my searches for
well known movies come up empty, and TV shows also catch up super late :(

------
jv22222
> Netflix was worth it because it made accessing so much content easier than
> piracy

Amazon can solve that problem. They makes it easy to bring all those disparate
channels into a single UI. For example, we have HBO, Boomerang, CBS all in the
one Amazon Prime browsing experience. IE You don't need any other apps other
than Amazon Prime.

Makes it super easy, but yeah, all the $10/month start to add up.

------
tbabb
This analysis suggests a trivial solution, if it's accurate: Make a "shuffle"
channel on Netflix which just starts playing a random show/movie which the
algorithm has confidence you'll like. "Skipping" would be just like changing
the channel on TV.

That could probably do a better job of satiating the viewer than broadcast
channels, which don't know your taste.

------
homerhomer
It's a quality vs quantity issue. Netflix removed the ratings from their
hosted content and I feel that I've TRIED to watch to many shows that were not
worth my time. Eveytime I go to Netflix I can't find anything that seems good.
I know there's good show and they claim so many thousands of shows but why
I'am I seeing the same 100 shows everywhere I turn?

Ugh

------
t0mbstone
My biggest complaint with Netflix is that they seem to be churning out tons of
mediocre shows. The plot and theme of each of these shows are always extremely
shallow, and seem to be generated almost via a trope randomizer designed to
hit cliche target markets.

\- rich moms having babies

\- black family reunion

\- asian family with convenience store

\- older gay couples living together

\- superhero franchise season 7!

\- football players with one last chance to go to college

\- people in jail!

------
magwa101
Netflix is so hard to use. They constantly recommend their latest releases
when I have no interest at all. My behavior shows what I want to watch. I have
a "My List" filled out. I've been on it for 20 years. Their motivations are
obviously not aligned. Youtube recommendations are an example of a working
system. Netflix is toast.

------
tsieling
No punishment is enough for auto-play previews.

------
leftyted
I don't understand why Netflix doesn't open up the website to everyone, build
out the search tools (they suck), and let people pay per episode, per season,
or per movie. I bet they'd make more money.

I also wonder if Netflix missed an opportunity by not thinking of their
product as a streaming platform a couple years ago.

~~~
Pfhreak
I suspect Netflix has, in fact, considered exactly this model and decided
against it because:

a) It would make them less money b) They don't have rights agreements that
would permit it

------
nkozyra
Is the final result individuals or studios having a distributed platform to
sell access to _just_ their show (s) for a reasonable fee?

This is what people want and have been saying so for decades. Don't make me
pay for a service I use 2% of. This is the whole anti ala carte thing cable
companies have done forever.

------
robtherobber
This very much reads like this article since 2018 (and probably others):
[https://medium.com/@gholemserge/netflix-poor-
ui-40e94f56fc0e](https://medium.com/@gholemserge/netflix-poor-ui-40e94f56fc0e)

------
mixmastamyk
Netflix is finally facing some decent competition, and in response, they've
been raising prices. :-/

I understand they need their own content, but they've already got more than I
can watch. I'd prefer more quality and sticking with shows over quantity and
higher prices.

------
alam2000
The US subscribers plunged could be due to infighting with those users behind
VPN servers. Many non-US users are using VPN servers to view Netflix, once
detected and blocked, it caused the number of users in US dropped.

------
subpixel
The lack of reviews and ratings on Netflix means I don’t watch anything at all
without googling for reviews and ratings. A significant number of times this
leads to me reading, watching, or doing something else.

------
duxup
I just find discovery really hard on Netflix.

If it isn't a Netflix original I feel like I'm scrounging around / fighting
Netflix to find something...it feels like there is little to offer.

------
gtirloni
That's great news it's true. Netflix just have to invest in curating content
and an always-on channel(s) to fix that problem. Much cheaper.

------
WalterBright
The obvious solution for Netflix is to create a handful of "channels".
Something people can just switch to anytime and just veg.

------
egberts1
Plus their latest made for Netflix-specific movies have taken on some
political issues as a dig. I’m more into politic-Free dialog.

------
hartator
The thing is almost all Netflix produced content is really not that good. If
it was HBO quality, no one would consider leaving.

------
sjg007
Yeah I suffer from decision fatigue with both Netflix and Prime, even from
just the Apple TV movies...

------
kyriakos
Is it me or the article grammar is off? Missing words etc

------
chrisallick
Spelled ‘know’ wrong in the subtitle... _eye roll_

------
IanDrake
At some point Netflix got woke and for me that killed it.

Most Netflix originals prioritized a political message first and entertainment
a distant second.

I don't need to get my values from entertainers, of all people.

~~~
jl2718
Whether you agree with the message or not, it’s the opposite of entertainment
when you know that everything is going to conform to a trope.

I wonder whether they’d consider that maybe people are just bored and don’t
want to pay for the content.

------
taivare
Decision fatigue = JavaScript Frameworks

------
ziddoap
Classic paradox of choice problem, and I'm keen to see how Netflix decides to
tackle it.

~~~
m463
If this is the actual reason subscriptions are dropping, then the obvious
solution would be to ACTUALLY allow searching and filtering of the catalog,
along with nuanced rating of shows and accurate prediction.

I remember that netflix sponsored a contest to accurately predict what people
wanted to watch, then ignored the winning algorithm.

------
drawkbox
The article viewpoints are probably right, Netflix and Amazon need a few more
hits that people trust.

The Office was a big fallback show and Netflix needs a few of those of their
own. Stranger Things probably fits that.

The Witcher might change things for quality on Netflix.

Netflix shows have high production quality in terms of cinematography,
lighting, sound, color, sets, on location etc. Writing and big draw actors
aren't there just yet, though they have a bunch of that going and started that
way with House of Cards. Stranger Things was new actors except a couple like
Winona Ryder, the writing was better and it was successful. Maniac and Sabrina
are also pretty good in this area. Bojack Horseman has a cult following. Dark
is amazing. Black Mirror was a great acquisition. I Am Mother was pretty good
and premiering Annihilation was a steal. Russian Doll was excellent. Animation
like Death, Love & Robots, Voltron, Castlevania and more are solid. Those are
all the model to go for. What is missing in most shows is writing and
casting/actors draw to make a staple series that becomes a fallback like the
article mentions.

> _Consumers turn to a trusted source when they don’t know what to watch on
> their streaming service_

> _Subscriptions like Netflix and Amazon Prime offer plenty of critically-
> acclaimed, award-winning content. But the thing is, viewers have to pick
> which movies and series they’ll watch, and observers say many are getting
> burned out from all that decision-making._

Now with The Witcher the writing is based on a really solid book series, they
have a big name actor Henry Cavill that has read the series and it looks
great. It could be their Game of Thrones.

Amazon is also trying this with Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time.

These shows if they are done right, will get rewatched for a long time and
draws in the mega fans that are influencers.

Netflix is doing pretty good with stand up comedy, maybe even the leader now.
They paid Dave Chappelle and will forever be thanked for that by comedy
content consumers.

Netflix and Amazon need some big hits like the coming epics, and they need
some good staple shows like the Office, Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn 99
(Netflix should have bought this), Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Friends,
Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm and more. When they have that they equal the
content competition that has that trusted good quality. They need a few more
of these always watchable fallbacks.

They are both still chasing HBO, HBO is still the top in consistently good
content and shows.

Personally I love the competition, some real funding and creator freedom is
being unleashed, some are big hits, some are average and some not so good, but
I like the amount of content and like the vibe of where Netflix is headed.
Their new intro splash where the N goes into color bands is even great,
matches their really colorful catalog.

