

University of Florida shutting down research in Computer Science department - k3dz
http://www.change.org/petitions/dean-abernathy-college-of-engineering-university-of-florida-do-not-destroy-the-cise-department

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dfranke
I graduated from UF in 2007 and have in no way since kept up with departmental
politics, but as of then, CISE was a bit of a Frankenstein creature. As an
undergraduate, if you were looking for a computing-related degree, you had
five possible majors to choose from:

* Computer Science (College of Liberal Arts and Sciences; CISE Department)

* Computer Engineering with Software Emphasis (College of Engineering; CISE Department)

* Computer Engineering with Hardware Emphasis (College of Engineering; ECE Department)

* Electrical Engineering (College of Engineering; ECE Department)

* Computer Information Sciences (College of Business; CISE Department).

So basically, the CISE department was answerable to three different colleges,
and some of those colleges offered very-closely-related degrees that weren't
in the CISE department.

As for myself, I started out in Computer Engineering with Software Emphasis. I
later switched to Computer Science. The reason for this change was that I
wanted to double in Mathematics, which belongs to the College of Liberal Arts
and Sciences. Having a double major is a lot easier when both majors are in
the same college, because you then don't have to worry about satisfying
conflicting and redundant gen. ed. requirements.

So, as a CISE alumnus, I have a vested interest in maintaining the reputation
of that department, and this reorganization sounds likely to damage it.
However, the status quo (as of 2007) is a mess, and this change might overall
be for the better.

~~~
achompas
I'm also a 2007 alum, and I steered clear of CS as an undergraduate because of
the confusing organization you describe above. If that organization wasn't so
confusing, I would have tried CS out (vs. the econ BA I hold right now and the
MSCS I'm working on now).

The department may have problems, but shutting down research throws the baby
out with the bathwater. Degree consolidation would go a long way to improving
student enrollment.

~~~
dfranke
It's not obvious that they're actually "shutting down" any research, though.
They seem just to be moving it under the aegis of other departments.

~~~
k3dz
All faculty members that remain in CISE will have to stop their research
program and focus only on teaching. About 50% of the faculty will be able to
continue their research in other departments.

They will also be stopping all departmental TA support.

The proposal is here:
[https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwzZsds2XcGnMWFpcnFiNEhvQkk/...](https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwzZsds2XcGnMWFpcnFiNEhvQkk/edit?pli=1)

------
joshhart
I graduated from UF in 2009, with degrees in both Electrical Engineering and
Computer Science. UF was running into huge budget issues, which they mostly
took out on Liberal Arts. At the time, the Computer Science department was
under Liberal Arts and Sciences, not engineering.

The department chair at the time, Sartaj Sahni, responded by cutting teaching
funding and letting some of the best teachers go. UF had a few teachers
without PhDs, which reduces a university's ranking in US News & World Report.
Of course, these teachers were the ones that REALLY cared about teaching,
since they didn't have research distractions. These teachers were replaced
with postdocs who lack the experience needed to teach at a major institution.

I don't know how you can have a solid program if you slash your best teachers
to save research, then slash your research to save teaching. Doesn't make
sense.

~~~
hkmurakami
Letting go of your best teachers sounds like a brutally flawed decision. The
_only_ reason I am now getting back into learning programming after a 8 year
hiatus, is because of how great my untenured lecturer was in teaching us and
inspiring us in the ways of C programming.

If not for him, there would be far fewer students from my school who would
have stuck with programming. In 2004, we made a facebook group called
"Everything I know about C I learned from [insert guy's name]". From what I
can tell, the number of former students in this group keeps growing every
year. He is beloved by all his current and former students, and I would
vehemently protest to the school/department if he ever got cut prematurely for
any reason.

~~~
uf_cise_alumnus
If you're talking about Dave, he did get cut prematurely.

~~~
iopuy
What the hell happened? He was the only one that cared.

~~~
registered99
Fired since he didn't have a PhD

~~~
daveob
I graduated in 2004 and did NOT like Dave. Too much ego. He cared more about
people listening to him talk than learning the material. I know he was loved
by others, and am sorry he lost his job.

------
lbrandy
As a 2004 graduate of UF (ECE, not CISE) this news worries me. Can anymore
more familiar with the situation explain whether or not this more about
consolidating ECE/CISE, or if this is just a simple gutting of the computer
science at UF.

Many schools suffer the issue of CS being extra-engineering, and then having a
"computer engineering" department within engineering, and you end up with
quite a bit of duplication. I'm hoping that this is simply part of a
consolidation process.

~~~
ahelwer
Yep. University of Calgary went the opposite route a few years back and shut
down the computer engineering degree stream. I'm actually not sure what the
effects of that were, I'll have to ask my coworkers (some of whom are
graduates of that degree).

~~~
Danieru
Are you sure that is what OP is talking about?

U of Calgary still has a software engineering program within engineering,
which I think is the situation OP is talking about.

With that said I'm in the computer science program and it is still very
computer sciencey so I think we've avoided the duplication.

~~~
ahelwer
Yes, the software eng program is still around. There is quite a bit of overlap
with comp sci though - unless you're taking an honours degree there will be a
number of software eng students in most of your classes (networking, operating
systems, etc.)

I think the fate of computer eng was to have it split between computer science
and EE. I'll have to ask coworkers at lunch.

Have we met? I'm Andrew Helwer. The guy that runs Problem Solving Club.

~~~
Danieru
That likely is the case, I never do know what programs most of my classmates
are in.

We haven't meet but I have heard of you. Last semester a friend in discrete
mathematics from bio-info mentioned your problem solving club.

------
quanticle
_The fertile environment for software tech companies in Gainesville and
Florida as a whole will be severely damaged._

Is Gainesville really that fertile a ground for software startups? Moreover,
will reducing research funding at University of Florida necessarily make the
existing environment for startups worse? For example, what if the savings are
invested into a greater emphasis on teaching?

~~~
achompas
_Is Gainesville really that fertile a ground for software startups? Moreover,
will reducing research funding at University of Florida necessarily make the
existing environment for startups worse?_

UF has a very strong entrepreneurial community. Grooveshark[0] and Hype
Machine[1] were both founded by Gator alums.

I can imagine that reduced research --> lower quality RA opportunities -->
reduced interest from undergrads, thus shrinking the number of undergrads
interested in CS or tech startups.

[0]<http://grooveshark.com/>

[1]<http://www.hypem.com>

~~~
ja27
I sure wouldn't say fertile, but there's a growing bit of support there for
tech startups. UF is generally the big engineering school in Florida, though
USF (Tampa) and UCF (Orlando) have gained on it. They're big state schools
grinding out undergrads, but it gets a lot harder if you lose all your grad
students.

<http://innovationgainesville.com>

------
rockarage
Is this the same University of Florida that did this: Give a 6 year 24 million
contract to a coach of a so called amateur sports team ?
<http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4374311> Is this the same UF that
gets a cut of SEC 2.25 billion dollar contract ?
[http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2008/08/2008...](http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2008/08/20080825/This-
Weeks-News/ESPN-Pays-$225B-For-SEC-Rights.aspx)? Yes I think it is. Hmmm I
wonder why they have nothing left for cs education.

~~~
ScottBev
Affiliated? Yes. Two separate entities though. They do not receive any funding
from the University. In fact the UAA has made a profit consistently for quite
a while and has returned $6-8 million/year to the University.

So, yes the UAA gives ridiculous amounts of money to coaches, but they are
making a decent ROI.

~~~
ScottBev
Also, the $6-8 million given to the University is after the UAA pays for all
of the expenses of the non revenue producing sports teams.

------
nutanc
As a 2002 graduate, it pains me to see this. More so, when they are saying
that they will cut the TA funding. I got through college because of my TA
scholarship, and I still have fond memories of teaching the undergraduates.
Some of them are still friends.

We also did some nice research in my Masters, a lot of concepts(Grid/cloud)
which we are currently using in our Startup.

In any case, I just hope the department and the University come through this
with their reputation intact.

~~~
Gormo
Did you complete undergrad in '02, or were you a TA at that time? I completed
my CISE undergrad in '02 and thought it was an excellent program, despite the
convoluted organization.

As an aside, what does your degree actually say? The '98 catalog didn't
actually have a "computer science" program, and the CS curriculum was offered
as "Computer _and Information_ Sciences" via either the business school or
CLAS. Do you ever get people confusing your undergrad degree with the
equivalent of MIS? (IIRC, the MIS-equivalent was _D_ IS at that time.)

------
luser001
Seems like the university is deciding to focus on Electrical and Computer
Engineering and deemphasize Computer Science.

Core competence and all that.

It even has an odd name like CISE (Computer and Information Science and
Engineering).

[http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120411/ARTICLES/1204198...](http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120411/ARTICLES/120419892?p=1&tc=pg)

~~~
ja27
Computer Science programs have many different roots. I think the most common
is for them to grow out of Electrical Engineering departments where they end
up tightly coupled with Computer Engineering, lots of hardware emphasis, etc.
But they can also grow out of departments like math or information / library
science. Then they may end up fairly far from the engineering departments.

------
smcdowel
There are over 400 graduate students here in the CISE department at UF. With
the cuts to all TA funding plus half the research faculty instantly being
forced to stop research in addition to those faculty who do not wish to remain
as teaching only faculty there will be 200+ of us graduate students leaving.
At over $10,000 a year in tuition, the loss of these 200+ graduate students
tuition is far in excess to what the college of engineering as a whole stands
to save by consolidating and gutting the department. Next year instead of a
$1.3M deficit to plug they will have an additional 2M+ less in tuition revenue
alone. I would love to see where the dean decides to turn to next to
"consolidate." This is not a sustainable approach to a budget deficit because
she is greatly devaluing the degree in the eyes of the current students and we
are going to transfer elsewhere to finish our degree programs. She can
honestly apply the 5% budget cuts across the board to all departments and let
everyone take a small hit or irrevocably damage computer engineering at UF and
still have a budget issue.

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axelav
as a former UF student, I have to say this just seems like a terrible idea.
disappointing.

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rlovelett
For those of you who have a "vested" interest in the reputation of a
department you graduated from many years previous (and by many I mean more
than a year ago) and are worried about its reflection on you.

Perhaps, instead, you should concern yourself with your personal professional
achievements and credentials post graduation and how those reflect on you. To
me that seems like a MUCH more productive use of your time.

This seems like a concern to future and current students; rather than alumni.

// Light-hearted jab at UF alumni

Leave it to a Gator grad to be worried about keeping-up appearances.

Go Knights!

~~~
rokkaku99
I think that I've gotten jobs despite, not because of, my UF degree. But the
skills that have let me get those jobs were burnished in research labs in the
CS department. Research labs that will go away if the dean's plan goes
through.

Some of us just don't believe in pulling up the ladder after we've climbed up
it. Having an active department turning out competent graduates is good for us
as alumni, good for Florida, and good for the field of computer science.

------
kobs
I really hope that they're simply consolidating Electrical and Computer
Engineering (ECE) and CISE (Computer & Information Science Engineering) into a
single department and keeping existing faculty.

As a 2010 graduate (CISE - I wanted a mix of engineering and liberal arts),
this is quite troubling to me. I remember when they announced that they would
be laying off a number of faculty members (mostly lecturers) -- some of whom
were the best instructors in the entire department. Now they're getting rid of
research in the name of teaching? What a farce.

~~~
uf_cise_alumnus
That's not at all what is proposed.

Step 1: move graduate programs to ECE

Step 2: make faculty ask to be in other departments (with the dean's approval
of course)

Step 3: make all faculty who can't get other departments to take them have a
100% teaching appointment and set TA budget of the department to $0.
Effectively convincing all those cranky guys you wanted to get rid of to leave
the university.

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Success!

Then add the Ph.D. program back in and wait 25 years for it to rebuild.

Sounds like a great plan to me.

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Xyzodiac
I was planning on transferring to UF next fall to get a bachelors in Computer
Science. It worries me how little the university cares about Computer Science
if they're planning to make such a decision. I personally would like to thank
everyone who signed this for rallying against such actions.

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raphman
Reddit discussion:
[http://www.reddit.com/r/ufl/comments/s5jsk/uf_engineering_de...](http://www.reddit.com/r/ufl/comments/s5jsk/uf_engineering_dean_proposes_to_dismantle_cise/)

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rmse17
Let us think - how is an engineering department taught by mostly non
Engineers? Odd I know, but rumor has it CISE does it. Not so with EE/ECE. BTW,
CISE instructors are welcome to join EE/ECE - most of their research is done
together already anyway. But hey, who cares about figuring out all of the
details, lets just make this a sensation like all the other BS news.

~~~
Gormo
The department is "Computer and Information Science _and Engineering_ " - only
a subset of the department consists of what would be generally regarded as
"engineering", and the people teaching engineering courses have the relevant
expertise in their fields.

------
lectrick
Filed under "Flori-duh"

God I hate that state. The most idiots per capita I've ever encountered.

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stuartkingxuyi
This is absolutely ridiculous. Can't imagine university like UF doesn't have
CS program.....

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michaelty
Thank you, Rick Scott!

~~~
nobleach
Easy there, the UofF doesn't need Rick Scott's help to completely blunder
something.

I left Gainesville in 2010 and that entire freaking town has one of the most
ANTI-progress sentiments I've ever seen.

The one shining star on the horizon will be the construction of the
University's 40 acre tech hub. Let's hope they don't flub that one.

~~~
Gormo
40 acre? I thought it was just one building downtown.

------
no-espam
They have a powerhouse college football team. That will keep America relevant
in the future.

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rsanchez1
I'm a current UF student, and what the hell?! The presidents of UF and FSU are
lobbying the government to allow the universities to increase tuition without
limits (ie, without asking the Florida Legislature again), and UF comes out
with this? Is this their way of sending a message to the Legislature? "Don't
approve our tuition hikes and this will happen"? They're asking for a tuition
hike to make UF more "competitive" nationally, but how does eliminating a
research department and cutting faculty who are great teachers but not PhD's
make you more competitive?

It doesn't!

~~~
ColderRichs
I'm also a UF student, and would gladly pay more in tuition if it meant saving
our department.

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kfcm
I'm in no way associated with UF, but I don't think the answer for why this is
proposed is too difficult.

Take this:

    
    
      CISE, the only department at UF engaged in Computer Software research, will become 
      a teaching only department, and inevitably, its ranking, reputation and enrollment 
      will plummet.
    

and add this:

[http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120331/ARTICLES/1203399...](http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120331/ARTICLES/120339944)

Can you say "diploma mill"? Good; I knew you could.

