
Best Buy’s Secrets for Thriving in the Amazon Age (2017) - harshulpandav
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/business/best-buy-amazon.html
======
randomacct3847
In my experience, no other category is so heavily gamed by shady marketplace
sellers on Amazon than electronics. Search for wireless headphones on both
Amazon and Best Buy and it’s night and day what you see returned. I’m bullish
on Best Buy simply because it’s not a free-for-all of cheap foreign knockoffs.

Retail of yesteryear might stand a chance because employing buyers who
actually curate merchandise to be sold will become a value add again.

~~~
Someone1234
That's why I like B&H Photo now too. All genuine products, sold by them, with
real reviews. Their shipping is a little slower and they close Friday/Saturday
which is frustrating but overall a good experience.

They even do price guarantee if you contact CS which Amazon discontinued.

~~~
lscotte
B&H is great, agreed. They are an extremely honest company, so taking a few
days longer is worth it in my opinion - you are going to get exactly what you
ordered in my experience. On Amazon, that's only guaranteed if Amazon is the
seller (not to be confused with "fulfilled by Amazon", of course). B&H is also
closed on all Jewish holidays.

~~~
FiveSquared
But they are hella racists and discriminating.

[https://www-m.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/bh-photo-
lawsuit/index.h...](https://www-m.cnn.com/2016/02/29/us/bh-photo-
lawsuit/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F)

~~~
gruez
Can anyone explain why this comment is being downvoted? Is it a matter of
"yeah but Amazon does it too/is worse"?

~~~
tomhoward
Perhaps because it includes multiple breaches of this line in the HN
guidelines:

> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something
> genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

There may be a case for introducing information like this when a company is
recommended, but the comment would need to be worded with more civility than
that one was.

~~~
FiveSquared
Oh sorry, I just wanted to inform people. I will try better next time!

------
general8bitso
Not a fan.

Used to work there during college.

If we didn’t sell enough PSPs (extended warranties), we were not allowed to
leave at our scheduled time.

Also, we moved all the laptop inventory to the back of the store, so if a
customer wanted to buy a laptop that was in stock, but did not want to
purchase an extended warranty, we were instructed to lie to the customer and
say it was out-of-stock.

Also, the whole incentivized FBI Geek Squad informant deal was a bit immoral,
too, IMHO.

~~~
mikeash
Was it actually better for Best Buy to lose a sale than to sell a laptop
without an extended warranty, or was that just a case of bad incentives making
the rank-and-file do things that hurt the company?

~~~
learc83
Bad incentives. Some items were low margin, but almost nothing was so low that
it was actually worth losing the sale.

One of the things you were ranked on was PSP (extended warranty, but they beat
it into your head never to call it that) attachment percentage. When a measure
becomes a target...

Occasionally there was a loss leader sale item, and in those cases if someone
wanted to by it without any attachments, it might have made short term
financial sense to pretend we didn't have it, but I don't think the company
could get away with that on a large scale.

Source: I also worked there during college. First in customer service, then as
a Geek Squad supervisor at a new store, and I was sent to training at HQ up in
Minnesota.

~~~
mikeash
Measuring percentage would do it. I’m always amazed that companies can be so
boneheaded. You’d think I’d stop being amazed at some point, but no.

~~~
learc83
My favorite was when we started focusing heavily on close rate. Close rate was
just the number of transactions divided by the number of people who walked in
the door, so someone proposed that we start breaking up people's purchases
into multiple transactions.

I proposed a counter solution--we just move the laser sensor on the door a bit
higher, so that short people wouldn't trigger it.

~~~
pionar
I worked in an electronics store (regional, not Best Buy, and out of business
now) in the mid-2000s that had this exact measure.

In my store, on busy days, the manager would occasionally "greet" customers at
the door for 10 minutes at a time. Coincidentally, the spot he would choose to
stand would block the sensor, so instead of 20 customers coming in in 10
minutes, it looked like only 1 had come in.

~~~
mikeash
The ingenuity of employees in gaming stupid rules also never ceases to amaze.

------
Hippocrates
Lately I prefer to shop at Best Buy over amazon. I have a couple nearby, so
picking something up at the store is more amenable to impulse and instant
gratification. It’s also fun to take a lap around a play with some stuff.

Besides that, the prices are competitive, not that it matters because they
price match. Sometimes you can score a deal on open box items, which are
conveniently listed on their site. Returning something to BB has been
painless. I recently returned a monitor _without_ the box for a full refund.
I’d at least have had to find a box, pack, and ship that at my own expense w/
amazon which is a huge hassle.

Prime’s 2 day shipping on nearly anything is great but more than a few times
I’ve had things lost in the mail. Amazon waits 3-5 days PAST the delivery date
to consider it lost while you wait in limbo, and then you have to restart the
order. It’s really frustrating if you need the thing quickly and it ends up
taking more than double what it should to arrive. IME Amazon is not generous
in compensating for these inconveniences.

~~~
tracker1
Monitors/TVs are something I've had so much bad experience with, I pretty much
always buy at a physical store over mail order of any kind.

Also, Prime's 2 day shipping doesn't mean nearly as much when a lot of
products don't ship for 2-3 days after you order a lot of times now. I'm not
sure if it's just gaming the system, but seems to be the case a lot these
days. Not to mention co-mingling inventory makes me feel less certain on whole
classes of items.

~~~
jstarfish
They're definitely doing all sorts of nonsense to game the system.

My latest gripe is in how they'll change or merge listings after an item ships
so when what you order isn't what you get, it makes it look like you ordered
the wrong thing in the first place.

The order confirmation they email to you forces you to click through to the
site instead of giving you a static copy of your invoice so you have no proof
to contest it either.

------
Sylamore
Sometimes you want to actually check something out before you buy it and
that's the value that a Best Buy can provide that Amazon can't.

Recently I am needing to replace my failing 15 year old color laser printer
and I've been trying to find a local store that has them models I'm
researching in stock (want to print Tabloid for woodworking drawings - so not
a large number of stocked options).

Both Staples and Office Depot had the printers, but none of them had ink in
them and the store managers refused to install ink. This was frustrating
because I wasted easily 2 hours between both stores waiting for the manager to
even be available.

Best Buy had only 1 printer model but it had ink cartridges installed at
least, but had no paper. A store associate helped fix that, but apparently the
printer wasn't printing with black despite showing it had black ink. The
associate kept wanting to demonstrate the printer not by printing a nice mixed
content page but by copying a sales tag.

Needless to say I haven't been able to get print samples from any local retail
establishment and I'd pay (reasonably) more than Amazon prices to get an good
idea of the output quality before buying plus the instant gratification of
being able to take a new printer home immediately. Hell since it's an ink jet
I'd probably even buy the PSP/Extended Warranty without a fight.

All of these retail business are blowing their primary advantage by not having
well working demo units available.

I may still end up buying from Best Buy or Staples but only because I can
return to the store instead of having to ship back and pay for that return
shipping like with Amazon.

~~~
ndnxhs
The printers are probably such low margin items that its worth losing your
sale so they don't have to spend the time setting it up. Most people don't
care what the quality is as long as its not terrible so they will still sell a
lot.

If you were buying 100 business printers I bet they would be happy to give you
a demo.

~~~
Sylamore
This is probably true, especially the newer models with ink tanks that come
ready to print 700+ pages out of the box as those won't move as much ink for
the stores. I know at least Staples uses ink attack rate as a metric for
employees.

------
finaliteration
I worked retail for over 5 years before starting my tech career and I’ve been
a big advocate for Best Buy over the last couple of years as I’ve watched
their in-store experience improve. At my local store the service is always
awesome, they accept returns without a hassle, and I can order stuff online
and they usually have it ready in less than hour. Their staff once spent over
two hours with me resolving an issue and not once were they jerks about it.

I’ve been considering dumping my Prime account and one of the reasons I’d feel
confident doing so has been my good experiences with Best Buy as of late.

~~~
Pxtl
That's good to hear. I stopped going to best buy when every question I had for
staff was answered by the staffer reading the card on the shelf. I go to a
meat-space store when I don't know what I want and I need knowledgeable
salesmen to help me. The BB in my neighborhood never ever had that, so I
stopped shopping there.

~~~
lotsofpulp
People don’t want to or are unable to pay for a knowledgeable salesperson,
hence why they do not exist for simple things such as consumer electronics.

~~~
Pxtl
Depends on the product. Look at home Depot / Lowe's / Rona where it's
absolutely expected that there will be staff with contracting experience who
have advice on what products to buy and how to use them.

~~~
lotsofpulp
I do not expect to find experienced professionals working a $15/hour job at
Lowe’s or Home Depot. There might be some who are out of the game due to
injury or age, but not as a norm.

~~~
jstarfish
It varies by region.

In Atlanta and thereabouts Home Depot is a minimum-wage job ($8/hr?) with no
real benefits or employee discounts so you just get bodies to stock shelves.
I've had much better luck in California ($15/hr?) where most of the employees
seemed to be ex-contractors or otherwise experienced.

~~~
Pxtl
Yeah, here on Ontario most of the Home Depot staff are old guys who've got
plenty of experience with the stuff they sell. At worst, their knowledge is
out-of-date from current best practice.

------
t0mbstone
If Best Buy ever closes, I will be very sad. It's one of the last standing
bastions where I can go see electronics in person, purchase them, and then
return them for an immediate refund (if something is wrong). The fact that
they price match Amazon is key. I will pretty much always buy at Best Buy if I
can, because I can get the item on the same day, for the same price as Amazon,
and still get all of the conveniences offered by a retail store.

------
max76
I recently wanted a very specific model of TV, and after 15 minutes of price
checking I found the it was noticeably cheaper (about 10%) at best buy than
anywhere else. Picking it up was a breeze. I'd suggest price checking at best
buy.

A few months later I bought a second TV and it was best priced at frys. It's
funny how these things go.

~~~
giancarlostoro
BestBuy used to price match physical stores originally. I was surprised when I
had bought my Surface Book 2 from BestBuy and without saying anything they
offered to price match it with Amazon.

------
whoopdedo
The article says Best Buy didn't have to layoff employees. But why would they
ever? Retail has a high turnover rate already. All they had to do was not hire
replacements when people left on their own. Or hire a part-time worker when a
full-timer quits.

Is there any national retailer other than Walmart that has not been forced to
reduce their labor budget as a response to Amazon? None that I've looked into.

~~~
nfriedly
Maybe Costco, I hear they've been doing well.

~~~
robohoe
Any Costco in my area is packed to the brim Fri-Sun to the point that you have
to drive around looking for spots.

It isn’t empty Mon-Thurs either.

------
balls187
BestBuy is a step down from frys, which is itself a depressing experience.

Poor inventory, mislabeled items, disinterested staff.

I happily shop with New Egg simply because of they stood up to patent trolls:
[https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/07/newegg-fought-
it...](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/07/newegg-fought-its-way-
through-two-appeals-to-win-fees-from-this-patent-holder/)

~~~
atombender
Indeed, I'd like an Amazon competitor focusing on high quality and great
service as much as anyone, but going into a Best Buy is _depressing_.

The staff act like robots. Their responses and behaviour both when you ask for
help and when you go to checkout seem scripted, while at the same time they
give off a tired air of mildly annoyed indifference.

A lot of US chains are like this, really. Everyone just seems so downtrodden,
even surly or hostile. I'm sure the staff is paid little and not treated that
great, but still, I've never encountered this in Europe, where I'm from, and I
can't imagine that conditions are much better there, so it might be a cultural
thing.

~~~
balls187
If you're looking for A/V and Car Audio, I _highly_ recommend Crutchfield.

They're amazing.

------
Overtonwindow
The secret to Best Buy is that you can play with things. Unfortunately I think
they have kind of dropped the ball on this one. When I visit Best Buy, I often
see empty product spaces, demo products that do not work, wires just dangling
from a hole. This is not the Best Buy of my childhood where you went and could
get your hands on things, really get to play around and know what you’re
buying. I would never buy a 52 inch LED TV off of Amazon, but I would
definitely buy it at Best Buy because I can actually see it. The secret to
Best Buy is that you can play with things. When I visit Best Buy, I often see
empty product spaces, demo products that do not work, wires just dangling from
a hole. This is not the best spy of my childhood where you went and could get
your hands on things, really get to play around and know what you’re buying. I
would never buy a 52 inch LED TV off of Amazon, but I would definitely buy it
at Best Buy because I can actually see it. They will even put your favorite
DVD or Blu-ray if you bring it

~~~
tracker1
It could be more of an issue with your location(s) manager... though I only
really go to BB a couple times a year. Usually monitor or TV, or because I
want something that day.

~~~
Overtonwindow
I go all the time, all over Northern Virginia. It’s not just one store or one
city. Frustrating to say the least because I know Best Buy can be a great
store.

------
throwawaymjabba
BestBuy's shipping was far better than Amazon's in my experience. BestBuy
always used to offer 2 day shipping for me and sometimes even deliver in a day
for the same price as Amazon. In the case of Amazon, from 2012 to 2014, they
used to ship fast. I place an order, it get shipped within 24 hours and I
would get it in 2-3 days. But something changed in 2014. I noticed that my
order would stay in 'preparing for shipment' for upto 5 days before they
actually ship it. I assumed either that was Amazon's way of pressuring me to
get Prime or their algorithms labelled me a low value customer. After 2 bad
customer experiences and loss of trust due to the risk of getting fake
products, I moved onto other retailers.

I once bought a laptop from BestBuy. It was over $2k. I came home, unpacked it
and to my horror, there was a scratch. I immediately went back and BestBuy
gave me a new one. In the case of Amazon, I ordered a furniture. They shipped
the wrong color. Since I didn't want to deal with the hazzle of returning, I
asked Amazon to give me the price difference (the color I got was cheaper than
what I ordered). No. The only option Amazon gave me was return it and order
again. Had to wait for another 10 days to get my color.

I came back to India and ordered a surge protector from Amazon. The item I got
was not only poorly packaged, it looked like Amazon just shipped me something
that someone else returned. It still had a previous shipping label (though I
couldn't read it), was very badly packed with cello tape, and the plastic body
had somehow got the green color from the Belkins packing. Thankfully, Amazon
refunded me and I found it cheaper in a local store.

------
deaps
I've always preferred Best Buy to Amazon for electronics (and I definitely do
my fair share of Amazon purchasing).

Recently, I bought my MacBook there. I also purchased a gaming headset from
there.

I think the main thing is - what if I get my headset out of the box and one
ear has no sound - easy fix with Best Buy. Same with the MacBook. In fact - I
actually ended up returning my original MacBook to Best Buy within 14 days of
purchasing it to get a slightly upgraded model - no questions asked, nothing
lost but about an hour of time.

As other posters have mentioned, there's also the 'knock-off' chance on Amazon
as well (or at least me, the general, uninformed consumer thinks that there
is). I can't be certain that even Apple-branded products from Amazon are
actually Apple products. But at Best Buy, my assumption is they are legit
Apple products.

------
mercwear
They price match Amazon which is really no secret, it’s just hard to do since
they have more overhead.

~~~
giancarlostoro
My best guess is they hope to make up lost with items Amazon doesn't even
list. I know there's some products that are owned by BestBuy, I forgot the
company name for it, but some random electronics they sell.

~~~
r2ut3u
you are thinking of insignia products

~~~
fullshark
Looks like it's not just Insignia but Rocketfish, Platinum, Modal and Dynex as
well.

[https://corporate.bestbuy.com/best-buys-private-label-
busine...](https://corporate.bestbuy.com/best-buys-private-label-business-
turns-15/)

------
sys_64738
We buy all our appliances from Best Buy so I'd hate to lose them like we lost
Circuit City. CC's decision to ditch appliances was their downfall, IMO. As
for buying electronics from BB, it's a checkered history for me. I've bought a
MacBook Air cheaply there and our current LCD TV was 300$ there. When I last
bought a PC laptop there 12 years ago trying to get out of the shop without
extended warranty was a nightmare. I eventually 'won' by saying it was a gift
and the new owner will run Linux (to escape the Geek Squad tax). Altogether,
BB is not a happy place to buy a Windows laptop although things may have
changed but I doubt it.

~~~
ams6110
I've never had any issue at my local Best Buy just saying "no thanks" to the
extended warranty stuff. Though I really only shop there about once every year
or two.

------
CaliforniaKarl
I'm on my third year of owning two Tiles: One pre-2018 Mate and one Slim. As
usual, it came time to replace them, and Tile's reTile program doesn't offer a
one-mate-plus-one-slim option (the closest is a two-plus-two). So, I got one
through reTile, and the other by heading over to Best Buy. I didn't even
consider buying it on Amazon.

Another time, I needed a 3.5mm headphone to Bluetooth transmitter for my
Nintendo Switch. I checked Fry's, Central Computer, and Best Buy; Best Buy had
it, so I got it from there.

In both cases, the choice was partially convenience, and partially not wanting
another box (or padded envelope) being used up.

~~~
mandeepj
> partially not wanting another box (or padded envelope) being used up

So, did you drive there? That's also an environmental impact. Just saying.

~~~
Someone1234
Because Amazon don't drive the package..? Or fly it in a lot of cases? In fact
Amazon has recently been moving away from USPS to "Amazon Logistics" which
means even less package co-mingling/less environmental efficiency.

~~~
soihrbfsodihbv
They send many packages on the same vehicle, and do a shortest-path route. So
the marginal impact of each package is minimal compared to making a dedicated
trip to Best Buy.

------
jhallenworld
I've had no success with Best Buy recently. They never have quite what I want.
Here are some recent examples:

An HD capable portable radio. (ended up buying Sangean HDR-16 from Amazon)

A keyboard synthesizer (I know they carried these in the past).

I upgraded three car stereos and they didn't have anything I wanted in stock.
(Ended up buying one from Amazon and two from Crutchfield).

An unlocked Samsung cell phone. They did not have the lower cost "J" ones
(this was a year ago- even now on their website I see that only a few stores
display them). I think we ended up buying from Microcenter- we are very lucky
to live near one.

~~~
ilovetux
I love Microcenter! I'm about a 2 and a half hour drive from one and make my
way up there probably 2-3 times a year carpooling with some colleagues and
friends. I don't know if all locations are the same, but the inventory at the
one I go to is more akin to a trade show than a Best Buy.

------
jryan49
I actually started going back to Best Buy for the first time in 10 years
probably. I was pleasantly surprised at the prices. What is even better was I
was allowed to test the mouse, TV, and headphones I wanted to buy!

------
johan_larson
Bloomberg covered this phenomenon back in 2018. The article generated 446
comments on HN.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17566164](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17566164)

------
jibanes
I wonder who buys dvd/bluray anymore... after netflix.

~~~
drivers99
Me. For example, I’m currently legally rewatching Game of Thrones before the
new season comes out even though I don’t currently have an HBO subscription.
It is a durable copy that doesn’t buffer, is high quality, isn’t modified
after the fact (such as when they removed the George W. Bush prop head-on-
spike). For a one time price, I own it for life. I can and have lent it out to
others. When I watch it, my analytics aren’t tracked, and there are no promos
for other shows at the beginning.

~~~
jonknee
> When I watch it, my analytics aren’t tracked

Unless you watch it on a smart TV. It's a shame you can't get the features of
a modern TV without content tracking.

~~~
dstaley
I mean, just turn off the internet on your TV. Most TVs have terrible built-in
software anyway. My TV isn't connected to the internet, so it can't track what
I'm watching.

~~~
drivers99
I forgot to mention that my Blu-Ray player also has an Ethernet port and a
bunch of "apps" available, and probably has the ability to report back on Blu-
Rays viewed, but I don't use it for that reason (and I have better devices for
apps, such as Roku.)

------
sbr464
I used to be concerned about Best Buy, until I realized they price match
amazon, now I just go there if I need (want) something same day.

