
The Umbrella Reinvented - brown-dragon
http://www.kazbrella.com/
======
Veratyr
Anyone looking at the landing page and wondering whether the umbrella is "a
joke or not", "what the design is" or thinking it's "highly suspect" etc., I
agree with you but the videos on the video tab at the top right are far more
informative.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8)
has examples of the umbrella unfurling and the motivations behind the design.

~~~
brown-dragon
Agreed. I initially felt the website was nice enough but it seems to be
putting off some people.

The video for their kickstarter campaign was also very interesting:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmvoU9cRzn4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmvoU9cRzn4)

According to their kickstarter page they are funded and starting manufacturing
soon.

------
mickdj
Looks like a Japanese design firm tried something similar back in 2013 called
the unbrella, still shipping for about $90
([http://h-concept.jp/fs/hshop/c/unbrella](http://h-concept.jp/fs/hshop/c/unbrella)).

English press story at [http://www.damngeeky.com/2013/12/11/16246/unbrella-
solves-th...](http://www.damngeeky.com/2013/12/11/16246/unbrella-solves-the-
wet-umbrella-problem-with-its-reverse-folding.html)

Minor marketing fail that while the Kazbrella solves the 'brush against other
people's pants' problem, it doesn't solve the 'drip water on the floor
problem', yet the promotional video implies it will.

~~~
ghayes
For what it's worth, I preferred watching the Japanese teaser video[0] much
more than Kazbrella's video[1]. It was clear and honest, while Kazbrella's
video feels like an infomercial with poor acting.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdeprKdVwU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phdeprKdVwU)
[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BLYLrdOXe8)

~~~
linhchi
yeah, i agree that the Kazbrella is too showing off. and the mechanism is not
that much innovative.

the normal double fold umbrella (not sure how it is called) has similar
mechanism, the difference is that it double folds which makes the folded
umbrella smaller.

[https://www.google.it/search?q=double+fold+umbrella&source=l...](https://www.google.it/search?q=double+fold+umbrella&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hiqIVcmfAeK_ygOm7Zh4&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=897)

------
rokhayakebe
From the comments there seems to be negative sentiment towards this product. I
believe it is a great endeavor and I would have funded the prototype and
development entirely. The reason is not so much that it could be much more
efficient than the current one, but that someone thinks he can improve
something that most people have thought to be the solution for so many years.
It takes guts, and observation to ask "is this the best we can do?"

~~~
Alupis
We could also try using square wheels again... just to make sure we didn't
miss anything the first invention-cycle.

There's a reason the umbrella has stayed practically the same all these
years...

~~~
tfinniga
One thing that has changed between earlier umbrella designs and now is that
high-precision manufacturing is now cheaper.

My main problem with this umbrella design is just that it's longer than I
like. I prefer compact umbrellas.

------
msandford
From the page:

"KAZbrella is a symbol of inventive thinking. A design unchanged for 3000
years is turned inside out. "

Uh, no, that is factually incorrect!

There are one-hinge umbrellas which are the traditional kind. There are three-
hinge umbrellas which are the highly compact kind. And now they've "invented"
a two-hinge umbrella. Color me unimpressed.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=three+hinge+umbrella](https://www.google.com/search?q=three+hinge+umbrella)

I don't know exactly when the three hinge compact umbrella was invented, but
they have existed for as long as I can remember. So that puts them at least
20-30 years old. And the technology isn't terribly complicated, though it does
rely on fairly small diameter tubes with very thin walls. It wouldn't surprise
me too much to learn that three hinge umbrellas were 100 years old or more.

So while they may have been the first people to make a two-hinge umbrella they
were certainly not the first to improve on the single hinge design.

------
pmiller2
Great, now someone please invent an umbrella that works in and doesn't destroy
itself in a moderate wind.

~~~
thijsc
[https://www.senz.com/en](https://www.senz.com/en)

I own a couple of them, they work amazingly well. You can even use them on a
bike with heavy wind.

~~~
ableal
Neat. Clicked around, found a video of testing to 133 km/h at the bottom of
this page: [https://www.senz.com/en/senz6/](https://www.senz.com/en/senz6/)

~~~
raldi
... a.k.a. around 82 mph!

------
pmontra
Water is trapped inside so basically this umbrella is a cup. All the water
spread on its surface will be at the bottom of it after half an hour on a bus
/ metro train. Be careful when you get out and open it. You better turn it
upside down and empty it.

Apart from that, it seems to be more convenient to open and close in a crowded
environment (metro stairs in rush hour) than the traditional design.

~~~
nissehulth
No. When you carry it the "cup" is upside down and it won't collect water.

~~~
JeremyNT
That seems like the natural way to carry it, but if you do this then you don't
solve the "I'm dripping water everywhere" issue (the video implies this design
addresses this).

So you can choose: either carry it the traditional way (hold the handle, with
the umbrella pointed at the ground) which allows the "cup" pour all the water
down onto the floor, or hold it "upside down" so the "cup" doesn't spill out.

------
logfromblammo
It's nice that people are still trying to make improvements on old solutions
to old problems, but I don't think I'll be buying this one.

I already solved my problems with umbrellas by buying a wide-brimmed hat
instead. It reduced my needs for both sunglasses and umbrellas, and does not
need to be stowed or carried.

In any case, my greatest problem with traditional umbrella design is inversion
due to wind, not trying to enter a vehicle with it or the fact that it gets
wet. Those problems have all been solved (separately) anyway. Inversion is
mitigated by venting the canopy. Entering a vehicle is improved by one-handed,
spring-assisted collapse levers in the handle. Its inherent wetness can be
mitigated by hydrophobic fabric as the canopy. If the water does not stick,
the dripping issue is solved by one shake before entering the dry space.

None of these problems seem to be helped much by making the canopy collapse in
the opposite direction. I remain concerned that an inversion due to wind might
not just be inconvenient, but that it will also damage the structure of this
new product, or even force it to collapse instead of just invert its canopy.

------
Handwash
My problem with the umbrella is that it is symmetric. If I hold it with my
left hand, my right part becomes exposed, and vice versa. If I try to protect
my backpack from getting wet, my front side get wet.

------
replete
You really, really, need to add some more links to the bottom of your home
page content.

I scrolled up and down multiple times looking for something along the lines of
'find out more'.

When I refound the learn more button, it just scrolled me down.

I was about to leave the site, and just noticed the tiny navigation in the
upper right.

If your sell is Innovation, you need to prove it.

------
huuu
Someone elses umbrella is soaking my trousers and the solution for me is to
buy a reversed umbrella?

Maybe the idea is nice but I don't think this is how you should promote your
product.

~~~
raldi
Why not? People buy deodorant.

------
linker3000
When there's any hint of rain, I carry (and wear, if needed), a lightweight
raincoat made from a breathable fabric. This means that when I am not wearing
it I can fold it over my arm and not have to battle through a busy street, or
on public transport with a stick-like thing.

~~~
keehun
Me, too. I really don't like umbrellas and wonder why people don't use rain
jackets more often. I enjoy the feeling of rain falling on me and I get to
stay completely dry. Umbrellas only can do so much, especially if you're
carrying things or have a large backpack (which contains a folded up cover for
itself). Rain with wind, forget it.

------
dzhiurgis
How come we can't buy a $20 chinese version yet?

I remember seeing this over a year ago being rejected in BBC's show Dragons'
Den.

~~~
Semiapies
I've seen variations on this every few years. It must be one of the more
common backyard-inventor things.

------
fezz
Seems like you trade one problem for maybe a slightly lesser one... if the
inside is wet, you still have to open it in the rain and thusly getting the
dry side wet (but maybe not as wet).

------
amelius
Here is another design. The "air umbrella": [1]

[1] [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1243275397/air-
umbrella](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1243275397/air-umbrella)

~~~
restalis
I've looked up more information about this project. It's interesting for its
novelty and for its ambition to bring the tech closer to mundane life, but
currently "the minds behind the project say there will be three different
options for the air umbrella [...] the difference between them is the length
and battery life which at maximum is thirty minutes"¹ - that's not much to
make it practical for everyone, not to mention its (battery) weight.

¹ [https://youtu.be/K6eyND08tu0?t=48](https://youtu.be/K6eyND08tu0?t=48)

~~~
amelius
Thirty minutes would be perfect for my daily 20 min walk to work. Also, it
would be nice if it could double as a USB battery pack to charge a phone, for
instance.

------
futbol4
Back in 2006 I watched "American Inventor" Sheryl McDonald had a similar
product as this KAZbrella but better. not only was it an "upsidedown" umbrella
but when you collapsed the umbrella it was surrounded by a cover so no water
would spill on you. here is a post that summarizes one episode that inludes
her, I have been unable to find video of the show:
[http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/official-
articles/5379...](http://www.fansofrealitytv.com/forums/official-
articles/53790-american-inventor-4-20-recap-ed-ventures-stupidity.html)

------
lohengramm
It seems funny but smart at the same time. I wanna know more about the wind
resistance, however. I realize this might not be the design goal, but how does
it compare with Senz, for example?

~~~
Someone
Funny, but impractical, IMO.

Takes more room (envision this in either a car, a bus, or a train), cumbersome
to carry (you basically have to hold it up your shoulder, parasol-style, which
means it will catch wind even if it doesn't rain), and the in/underside of the
canopy will be wet by the time you deploy it.

(Opinion formed on basis of the front page. Didn't watch a video)

------
zuron7
On a side note, I think that for products like this to be successful, they
need to open source the design and the hardware. Yes, there will be the
chinese knock-offs if I want to buy a cheap one, but those never have the
desired quality that I desire.

By having it as a proprietary products, the product is relegated to a niche
market, that too in a Umbrella market where people would be reluctant to shift
from the time-tested design.

------
lisper
Previously on HN:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9437364](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9437364)

------
drakonka
I can't figure out if this is a joke or not.

~~~
pbiggar
Not a joke. There's videos. Looks quite cool actually.

------
supercoder
I swear by these
[https://www.bluntumbrellas.com](https://www.bluntumbrellas.com)

------
normloman
The market will ultimately decide, but I presumed most people were happy with
their old fashioned umbrellas.

~~~
blowski
I live in the UK, so I have some experience of rain and using umbrellas. I
like the idea of arriving home and not getting the floor soaking wet. However,
most of the problems it describes are not problems I experience. My umbrella
problems:

* Walking in the wind - when it's blustery, I get blown all over the place. Even if the umbrella is strong enough to withstand the wind, it's difficult to walk with one.

* I frequently lose my umbrella, which is why I wouldn't pay more than £5 for one. I often leave it on public transport or at someone's house. At work, people also have a tendency to 'borrow' my umbrella permanently.

* If I'm walking anything more than a mile, holding an umbrella the whole way can be annoying, but I don't want to be an uber-nerd with an umbrella attached to my head. I want something that does the job of an umbrella for the price of an umbrella but looks like a hat or coat.

Failing that, I'll stick with a £5 umbrella from the supermarket.

~~~
logfromblammo
The things that do the job of an umbrella while looking like a hat or coat are
actually just hats and coats.

A quality cowboy hat, sou'wester, or fedora (an actual fedora, not a fashion-
accessory trilby masquerading as one) made of water-resistant fur-felt,
oilskin, or leather, and a prairie duster, slicker, poncho, or trench coat,
made from similarly waterproofed materials, cover just about every use case
where umbrellas fail.

The umbrella is actually not much use except when you are just walking from
one sheltered area to another, and don't need to actually _do_ anything in the
rain. For that, I can ignore all of the minor problems with cheap umbrellas,
because I consider them as semi-disposable convenience items.

If I ever thought I needed a truly fine-quality umbrella, I'd spend that money
on a nice hat instead.

------
ori_b
Is this spam? If I were to guess, this looks like some marketer trying to make
a product go viral. But I looked at the poster's history, though, and brown-
dragon doesn't seem to be a shill.

Am I missing something here? Are people actually excited about a minor change
to the design of an umbrella?

~~~
M4v3R
I would not call it a minor change. Umbrella design hasn't changed for
centuries and it always had the same problems. This design fixes them, so I,
for one, welcome it with open hands and I'm happy it reached HN, because I
wouldn't learn about it otherwise (sadly the Kickstarter campaign ended so I
have to wait until they open for the rest of people).

------
i_have_to_speak
Checkout the bluetooth-enabled umbrella:
[http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/keralas-umbrella-
innova...](http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/keralas-umbrella-innovation-
one-which-connects-your-mobile-phone)

------
ermintrude
Solves a non-problem.

~~~
torgoguys
Yeah, kinda my thought too. Pretty much everything they cite as advantageous
with the design also has drawbacks that the traditional umbrella doesn't. Here
are some advantages they demonstrate and where that "advantage" leads to other
possible issues:

Getting in an out of a car, staying dry. A) not as big of a problem as they
show, but also B) if could do similar bad acting of me getting out of a car
trying to open up the kazbrella and being annoyed that in poking the umbrella
out of the car I got the supposed-to-be-dry-side wet and now it's dripping on
me.

Won't drip water inside? No, it won't if you hold it upside down. But now
you're carrying a pool of water with you. Careful opening it. And the umbrella
will be even worse at drying in tight quarters when you can't open it up.

Dry side is on outside so it doesn't get things wet. They show somebody
placing it on seating. Yep, now that pool of water is spilling in some
direction. Also, if you do have the umbrella outside and it suddenly starts to
rain, the side that's supposed to remain dry is the one getting wet until you
get the thing opened up.

It was probably a fun project to design, but I don't think it's as useful as
they want you to think it is.

------
magic_beans
The description on the front page is badly in need of editing -- word choice
is awkward and stilted. The template you've used looks really unpolished for a
product page.

------
tudorw
[https://www.senz.com/en/](https://www.senz.com/en/) not tried one!

------
paulpauper
I have never heard of getting drench by a folded umbrella..lol. A solution in
need of a problem

~~~
hijinks
When I lived in NYC and it rained the subway car floors would have streams of
water running in them.. I can't say I remember my pant legs getting soaked by
someone else's umbrella mainly because they were already soaked walking to the
subway because of the wind.

I mean it seems like a nice design and it does suck getting into a car with an
umbrella.

------
octatoan
Uh, I think I have something like this . . .

------
comrade1
Men should only use an umbrella in a heavy rain, never in a sprinkle.

------
javajosh
The landing page doesn't communicate features, in particular, why this design
is better than the old one - or even what the design _is_. This makes the
whole thing highly suspect. It's hard to get enthusiastic about something
who's utility is, at best, marginally better than what already exists.

I mean, if you want to improve the umbrella, you could make one with a highly
reflective inner surface that doubles as a solar oven. Maybe even a solar oven
on the top surface that works on sunny days, so you can keep the sun off you
_and_ cook food, at the same time. Or, I like umbrellas that have useful
information printed on them, like subway maps. Or, how about a hollow handle
made of clear material that lets you measure how much it's raining. Or maybe
an umbrella on a gimbal, so that if it's windy some of the energy can be
absorbed by angular momentum.

~~~
Alupis
> No Gimmicks

I don't like gimmicks.

> Pure Engineering

I do like engineering.

> The KAZbrella is an evolution of the conventional umbrella.

OK, tell me more.

> Through many years of research and engineering we have redesigned the
> mechanics of the umbrella whilst maintaining the familiar umbrella look.

I'm on the hook...

> The KAZbrella is a patented reverse folding umbrella.

And... letdown. It's an umbrella that folds the other way...

Sure, maybe the outside of it while folded won't "press up against your leg,
soaking your trousers and bag and drips on the already wet floor", but this
means the water stays trapped on the inside of the folded creases, leading to
mildew and a musty smell, and the rest still "drips on the already wet floor".

I don't see this thing taking the world by storm anytime soon.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
Why would the water be trapped? You still store the umbrella upside down. And
lots of people already use mini umbrellas with similar folds in them.

~~~
Alupis
When you close your umbrella and put the strap around it (like when you are on
the bus or train, or at the office or home for the night), water is still on
it and must evaporate. It takes time. But with a reversed umbrella, the water
will be on the inside, not exposed to the open air.

