
Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k maintenance costs - bspn
http://www.tesloop.com/blog/2017/8/30/tesla-model-s-hits-300k-miles-with-less-than-11k-maintenance-costs
======
dmitrygr
Sadly, if you are not a company with a name like Tesloop, but a normal user,
the issue is not cost of service but time wasted on waiting for it. Unlike a
real car, teslas can only be serviced by tesla...so....

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldunne/2016/10/31/my-
firs...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldunne/2016/10/31/my-first-annual-
tesla-service-inspection-waiting-is-the-hardest-part/#4d44d3cd618d)

[https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/03/07/repairing-my-
tesla...](https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/03/07/repairing-my-tesla-model-
s-has-been-an-utter-night.aspx)

[http://www.autonews.com/article/20161113/RETAIL05/311149995/...](http://www.autonews.com/article/20161113/RETAIL05/311149995/tesla-
owners-plagued-by-service-delays)

[http://insideevs.com/need-your-tesla-model-s-or-x-
serviced-b...](http://insideevs.com/need-your-tesla-model-s-or-x-serviced-be-
prepared-for-a-wait/)

[http://autoweek.com/article/tesla/tesla-growing-pains-
owners...](http://autoweek.com/article/tesla/tesla-growing-pains-owners-
suffer-long-service-waits)

[http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107894_waits-for-
tesla-...](http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107894_waits-for-tesla-
service-get-longer-as-more-electric-cars-are-sold)

Oh, and forget doing your own maintenance or buying parts to do so. No such
luck - Unlike a real car manufacturer, Tesla won't sell them to you.

Want a real electric car with real support? Buy a Chevy Bolt, maybe?

~~~
btilly
_Want a real electric car with real support? Buy a Chevy Bolt, maybe?_

Production runs of the Chevy Bolt are reported to be limited in size because
they lose a lot per car. This does not sound like a vehicle which will ever be
produced in quantity that mechanics will learn how to do a good job of
maintaining.

I'd prefer to take my chances with Tesla than to take my chances with a niche
discontinued product.

~~~
jayess
Tesla loses $13k on each car sold...

[http://www.automobilemag.com/news/tesla-loses-397-million-
fi...](http://www.automobilemag.com/news/tesla-loses-397-million-first-
quarter-2017/)

~~~
mdorazio
No, it doesn't. They're taking Tesla's corporate loss and dividing it by sales
to say that Tesla loses money on each vehicle sold. This is incredibly poor
reasoning. It's like saying Amazon lost money on every product it sold until
2016. Tesla has a net loss because they invest very heavily in R&D for new
vehicles, battery factories, etc. Their per-vehicle profit margins are
actually very high, often quoted as around 25% [1][2].

[1] [https://seekingalpha.com/article/3972238-tesla-manages-
make-...](https://seekingalpha.com/article/3972238-tesla-manages-
make-21944-per-car-sold)

[2] [https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/03/27/how-
tesla-...](https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/03/27/how-tesla-motors-
could-be-profitable-if-it-wanted.aspx)

------
tyrust
Neat.

>During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs
of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Had
this been an Mercedes S class, the scheduled routine maintenance and fuel
would have been $86,000 ($52,000 maintenance and $36,000* fuel) with 112 days
of servicing, or for a Lincoln Town Car $70k,000 ($28,000 maintenance and
$42,000 __fuel) with around 100 days of servicing.

Not sure why they mention the fuel cost of these cars without citing the
electricity cost of the Tesla. It does make the numbers bigger.

~~~
portman
> The electric drivetrain, when coupled with a vast supercharging network...

I took that to mean that the car exclusively refueled on Superchargers, so the
fuel cost was $0. That is a legitimate apples-to-apples comparison to the ICE
vehicles.

~~~
SilasX
I don't think that's apples-to-apples -- you have to go out of your way to
always use a supercharger, so you'd have to account for the value of the time
lost in traveling to a supercharger station compared to doing all the same
journeys and using nearby gas stations. (Refueling at a supercharger is slower
too, so that's extra fillup time.)

Alternatively you could use the electricity cost of recharging it at home,
plus the cost of the occasional missed journeys that are out of range from not
always being full. (Say, book their cost at what you'd pay for an Uber for
those legs.)

(I don't know if charging a Tesla at home overnight is enough to get to 100%
-- anyone know?)

~~~
prostoalex
> I don't think that's apples-to-apples -- you have to go out of your way to
> always use a supercharger

For average person - yes, Tesloop, however, is Culver City - based, also known
as home to the Culver City Supercharger, so there's a bit of a hometown
advantage for them.

In fact, Tesla's recent penalty fee for hogging a supercharger spot long after
the vehicle has finished charging is related to Tesla owners' complaints (on
TMC, Twitter and Facebook groups) about Tesloop vehicles parked overnight in
Culver City supercharger spots.

~~~
SilasX
Okay, but then the comparison should be marked as a TCO comparison _just for
Culver City_ , which is, for that reason, atypical.

~~~
pkaye
The other thing is this is just a data point for one car. If the results were
for a dozen cars or more it would be useful. Imagine if Backblaze gave failure
rate based on 1 HDD.

------
jmcgough
Reminds me of the argument made in [https://shift.newco.co/this-is-how-big-
oil-will-die-38b843bd...](https://shift.newco.co/this-is-how-big-oil-will-
die-38b843bd4fe0) a few months ago:

Gas powered vehicles require many more (and more complex) parts, which
inevitably need to be replaced throughout the lifespan of the car. There's a
big incentive for services like lyft, uber, and future autonomous driving
companies to move to electric vehicles because they have much fewer moving
parts, and therefore are cheaper to maintain on a per-mile basis.

~~~
mmcnl
That is a big incentive for everyone who likes money, not only for services
like Lyft and Uber.

------
dkhenry
I am surprised people are trying to poke holes in this article. You're arguing
with data. This isn't an extrapolation or a estimate, this is numbers based on
actual use. You can say you don't think it will work like this for you, or you
don't think Tesla has good service, but clearly for at least one set of people
they are getting a massive ROI by buying Tesla's.

~~~
miahi
It's not about poking holes, is about showing the ones that exist. It's only
one data point (with unusual circumstances, like paying $0 for charging all
the time).

~~~
dkhenry
Its not unusual at all. Anyone could have had these same circumstances.

------
dsfyu404ed
So they saved a bunch of money by putting a ton of miles on before age related
problems started showing up. In other news the sky is blue.

It's component deterioration from age that really gets you on a luxury car.
Seat motors fail, wiring harnesses deteriorate, etc.

It's also worth mentioning that they didn't crash one. With enough road hours
eventually it will happen. The vehicles that can be serviced by a normal shop
will be cheaper to repair.

The lack of downtime is very impressive but if it's really that much cheaper
than running a fleet of town cars then why do they need to twist the numbers?

~~~
sigden
Components are much more likely to fail from being used consistently than due
to the sheer passage of time. I would take a car that has been kept untouched
in a garage over many years before I would take its equivalent model year that
had been driven 300,000 miles.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Plastics and rubbers degrade over time.

For example, rear and side window motors tend to fail first because the
mechanical components are used the least, become more full of dust, the rubber
tracks harden, motors work harder and burn out.

The garage will help a lot but when a vehicle is on the road for 10-20yr
issues specific to it's service that can't easily be foreseen or simulated in
tested pop up.

------
mrevolution
> "the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were
> $10,492 [...] of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was
> headlight damage"

So the fuel costs are only $92? (10,492 - 6,900 - 3,500)

------
tedunangst
A Mercedes would spend 112 days out of two years in the shop? I know some
people with MBs, and they aren't in the shop one day per week...

~~~
dgacmu
Most normal people dont put 300k miles on their car in two years either.

That's ten 30k mile services and probably 20-30 oil changes on a gas car.

~~~
tedunangst
Yeah, though if you're running a car like that, you'd combine services and
adjust the schedule a bit. Rotate the tires _and_ change the oil. There are
gas vehicles with heavy duty cycles, so it seems a bit apples to oranges to
compare to the MB service book for noncommercial consumers.

------
hinfaits
To me, no part of that article was that surprising (impressive nonetheless)
except for the $6500 headlight repair from "driving through deep water".

Wonder how exactly that happened, and what damage was caused to the car.

~~~
jgibson
Minor typo here, article states $3500 for headlight repair ($6900 for
scheduled maintenance)

------
sapienthomo
So, did anyone put in their email to get the service records? Please repost.
I'm interested in the cost of the tires.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
A metric fuckton each, four metric fucktons per vehicle.

They're special and IIRC have a liner to reduce NVH because that's one of
their selling points.

~~~
sapienthomo
Yeah I know how much the tires cost. I want to know how many times they've
replaced them because if they drove like me they would have spent all that
money and then some, just on the tires. I'm a little skeptical of their total.

~~~
ctdonath
I just posted about tires. My single data point is that "65,000 mile" tires
lasted 17,000 thanks to high torque. Decided to replace those "eco-friendly"
tires with "made for EVs" tires which cost substantially more, and I expect
would last only a "normal" distance.

Between Nissan, the tire manufacturer, and contending the "factory spec" was
defective by mis-design & thus at least partially covered under warranty, I
managed to get the price way down.

------
islanderfun
Interesting podcast on Tesloop [0]. A youngling like him starting the company
with his dad running it.

[0]
[https://gimletmedia.com/episode/tesloop-s02-ep11/](https://gimletmedia.com/episode/tesloop-s02-ep11/)

------
Hasz
What kind of battery lifetime does Tesla expect, and how much charge capacity
is actually left after 300k miles?

~~~
foota
On the homepage rn:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15144315](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15144315)

Upshot, most of it.

------
gigatexal
Makes sense. Less moving parts means less to break. I like the trend towards
(mechanically) simpler vehicles

------
Spooky23
Not terribly impressive to me. I have about $15k in my 2003 Honda Pilot.

~~~
woodandsteel
The Model S is a luxury car. A much better comparison to your Pilot will be
the Model 3, though of course it will be a good while before we have the long-
term data for it.

~~~
Spooky23
Touché. I forget my friends BMW, which was a real hanger queen.

