
Mathics – A free, light-weight alternative to Mathematica - dvfjsdhgfv
https://mathics.github.io/
======
godelski
This needs examples front and center.

Seriously, why is this not more common? When I go to your landing page I want
to see how awesome your thing is. A few examples is all it takes.

Show me something like this

In[6]:= Derivative[1][Sin]

Out[6]= Cos[#1]&

In[7]:= Derivative[2][Sin]

Out[7]=-Sin[#1]&

Don't make me go to documentation. Also don't compare it to Mathematica if it
isn't as intuitive as Mathematica (seriously, it is wildly popular because
simple things you don't have to look up. It works like you expect. There was a
lot of planning to make it this way. People note the "Zen" of Mathematica).
Here's an example of where Mathics is non-intuitive (besides if you remove the
[1] from the above example)

n[13]:= x = 5

Out[13]= 5

In[14]:= Derivative[1][x^2]

Out[14]= 25'

In[15]:= f[x] := x^2

In[16]:= Derivative[1][f]

Out[16]= 2 #1&

In[17]:= f'[x]

Out[17]= 10

I know no system is perfect, but try to sell me on your idea before I go
through your documentation and get frustrated that it doesn't work like the
thing you compare it to.

~~~
sn6uv
Thanks for the feedback, the web UI does have a gallery link [0] with a few
interactive examples [1]. I agree though, a screenshot like this would be a
good addition to the homepage.

[0] [https://pasteboard.co/IdIaJNo.png](https://pasteboard.co/IdIaJNo.png) [1]
[https://pasteboard.co/IdIc7dc.png](https://pasteboard.co/IdIc7dc.png)

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
Thanks a lot for your great work! I installed mathics locally and the
translate/sierpinski examples from the gallery don't seem to work. Do you have
an idea why?

~~~
NotSammyHagar
I ran it on my own linux box. Thanks for this work! Suggestions:

1\. host those images some where else than on pastebin, it's too slow to see
them on your github page. Try anywhere else. 2\. your instructions should tell
the exact command to run it after installing it with pip on linux too, like
you do on windows.

------
abawany
Somewhat unrelated but I would like to also mention Maxima
([http://maxima.sourceforge.net/](http://maxima.sourceforge.net/)), which used
to be maintained by the late Dr. Schelter and is still updated. Here is a link
to an old comparison between it and Mathematica:
[https://luckytoilet.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/beginners-
compa...](https://luckytoilet.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/beginners-comparison-
of-computer-algebra-systems-mathematica-maxima-maple/) .

~~~
gnufx
It could be related though Fateman's latest Mockmma, linked from
[https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/](https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/).
(He got a legal threat from Wolfram over the original version long ago.)

Other free general symbolic algebra systems are available, of course, like the
venerable Reduce and Axiom.

~~~
pfortuny
Fateman was (is?) one of the main contributors!to maxima. Quite a helpful guy,
also.

~~~
gnufx
Per Fateman's page, he worked on Macsyma (which was eventually freed as
Macsyma) at least from the early '70s, probably late '60s. REDUCE is a similar
age.

------
jhbadger
This is a cute little project that can be deployed anywhere with pip install
mathics -- I even have it on my android phone (under Termux)! It can't really
compete with either Mathematica or Sage, but both are multi-gigabyte programs.
Unfortunately the Jupyter kernel IMathics doesn't seem to work with the
current release, although it does come with its own notebook support.

------
wjsetzer
I haven't had a lot of time to dig through the docs yet (also, I think your
certificate is expired, btw), but this seems like a great alternative to
Mathematica and the like.

This is definitely a project I can get behind.

~~~
groovybits
Can confirm, the certificate for angusgriffith.com is expired.

~~~
sn6uv
Just renewed it (not that it'll survive the HN hug of death). It's been a few
years since I've touched that website.

------
xrd
Came here hoping for a discussion of the project itself but this is all
information about Mathematica or the fact that the developer who started it
now works there.

Does anyone have an opinion on the software itself linked here?

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
I'm going through the exampleas and apart from some minor issues it looks like
it's doing what it's supposed to do.

------
dang
A discussion from 2017:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11459186](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11459186)

------
syockit
Sometimes I confuse the meaning of light-weight to be something that "does
simple thing quickly" instead of "easy to setup". The last time I played with
Mathics (maybe 2 years ago) it was still much, much slower than Sympy.

~~~
axelclk
The split between SymPy functions and Mathics wrappers around these functions,
together with the pattern matching is probably responsible for the slower
system. Therefore in the Symja project[0] we try to implement it all together
in one (Java) library. Mathematica syntax can be tested in the MMA Console[1],
but the documentation of the functions [2] is in the "normally used Symja
syntax", which is much easier to use for the "common calculator user".

[0]
[https://github.com/axkr/symja_android_library](https://github.com/axkr/symja_android_library)
[1] [https://github.com/axkr/symja_android_library/wiki/MMA-
conso...](https://github.com/axkr/symja_android_library/wiki/MMA-console-
usage) [2]
[https://github.com/axkr/symja_android_library/tree/master/sy...](https://github.com/axkr/symja_android_library/tree/master/symja_android_library/doc/functions)

------
brian_herman__
Author of the program uses let’s encrypt and the ssl certificate is expired
for the documentation...
[https://mathics.angusgriffith.com/doc/](https://mathics.angusgriffith.com/doc/)

~~~
sn6uv
Just renewed it

------
abc_lisper
Cert expired.

~~~
sn6uv
Just renewed it

~~~
abc_lisper
Thanks!

------
rolleTx
If it is light-weight why don't they make web-app like Wolfram Alpha. I want
to see an alternative to that.

~~~
thearn4
SymPy Gamma
([https://gamma.sympy.org/input/?i=integrate+x%5E2](https://gamma.sympy.org/input/?i=integrate+x%5E2))
sort of fits as an alternative, though it's not very good at parsing general
questions/expressions.

~~~
codetrotter
Woah! That is very cool indeed. Time to start using SymPy Gamma instead of
Wolfram|Alpha. Surprising that their GitHub repo has so few stars. Only 400
stars at the time of this writing. I mean, 400 stars is respectable of course,
but seeing how cool this is I think they ought to have a lot more stars.

~~~
snazz
It even renders equations and graphs not as pixelated bitmaps! I should do
this more often to avoid squinting while WolframAlpha-ing.

------
matt2019
Tangential, but reminds me of Stephen Wolfram's story of how it got the name
Mathematica. It was actually Steve Jobs's idea:

"Over the months after our first meeting, I had all sorts of interactions with
Steve about Mathematica. Actually, it wasn’t yet called Mathematica then … For
a while he wouldn’t suggest anything. But then one day he said to me: 'You
should call it Mathematica.' … he told me his theory for a name was to start
from the generic term for something, then romanticize it." (Wolfram, Idea
Makers)

~~~
szemet
_> then romanticize it_

You mean romanize? And not just on the surface (latin alphabet), but even
using the actual word from latin (which is already romanized greek I guess)
and of course all the related living languages...

edit: I always felt strange naming a software exactly the same name (in many
language) as the field it operates in. Like naming a music creation software
Music, or a biology related software Biology, etc. It is like equates the
software with the whole field, suggesting that there is no difference between
the software and its disclipine. It is a marketing trick that have a bit of
bragging side, but of course it is common pattern, e.g:
[https://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Am-Football-Zlatan-
Ibrahimovic/dp...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/I-Am-Football-Zlatan-
Ibrahimovic/dp/024129715X)

~~~
pdabbadabba
I'm not sure what you're getting it. I think GP meant "romanticize," i.e.,
"deal with or describe in an idealized or unrealistic fashion; make
(something) seem better or more appealing than it really is."

(Though in this case the intended meaning is probably a little closer to
"build mystique surrounding.")

I agree with your point about naming a product to cover the whole field. It
does seem off-putting--although I think examples of it are pretty rare. (In
fact, I can't think of any off hand...) In this case, "Mathematica" is far
enough from anyone's ordinary English usage that it doesn't fall into that
category for me. I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say the word
"Mathematica" to refer to anything other than the product. It would be a
different story, of course, if it were just called "Math."

~~~
szemet
_Mathematica " is far enough from anyone's ordinary English_

Ok, I see. But it is not true for a large(not english speeking) part of the
world. It is like calling your "pineapple" software Ananas[1], you just
romanticize it in a small region while interfere with traditional word usage
in the other part. [1]
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/2pp0s6/pineapple_p...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/2pp0s6/pineapple_piña_or_ananas_1425x625/)

~~~
pdabbadabba
Ah! Yes, I wondered if part of the disconnect was that we speak different
native languages, but I did not want to assume. (Though perhaps I should have
just asked.)

------
O_H_E
I would like to take this amazing opportunity to tell anyone who doesn't know
about WolframAlpha to go give it a shot.

Shortest, simplest description I can give is that it is the best AI-less
science-heavy digital brain out there. Or as Wikipedia puts it "a
computational knowledge engine".

[https://wolframalpha.com](https://wolframalpha.com)

Edit: apparently Siri and Alexa sometimes query WolframAlpha.

~~~
zwegner
And I'd like to plug my favorite twitter account, Wolfram|Alpha Can't:
[https://mobile.twitter.com/wacnt/](https://mobile.twitter.com/wacnt/)

It's a collection of queries that an AI could answer in theory, but are
(probably) far beyond current technology. The questions are generally just
super interesting.

Here's a few recent samples: "derivative of the shore length of Tasmania with
respect to ocean depth" "total area enclosed by whole notes in a typical
printing of the Brandenburg Concertos" "total duration of watch adjustments
made by people changing time zones per day, if everyone had a watch and
adjusted it" "volume of ink saved by the Times per year if they switched to
American spelling"

~~~
chongli
_derivative of the shore length of Tasmania_

That's a funny joke but it's not something for which any AI could provide a
concrete answer. This is due to the fractal nature of coastlines and described
as the coastline paradox [1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastline_paradox)

~~~
abraae
That's great to know and I think its's something that's been gnawing at the
back of my mind for some time.

My country is claimed to have the 9th longest coastline in the world despite
being pretty small, and this makes me question that claim for sure.

------
ErotemeObelus
Be prepared to have Stephen Wolfram pull all the stops in order to destroy
your project. He didn't get rich by letting free competition flourish you
know.

EDIT: I downloaded the source just in case the author receives an offer he
can't refuse.

~~~
williamstein
Maybe Wolfram already effectively killed this project. It was actively
developed for about 5 years (see
[https://github.com/mathics/Mathics/graphs/contributors](https://github.com/mathics/Mathics/graphs/contributors)),
then Wolfram Inc. hired the lead developer 2 years ago, and basically all
worked stopped...

~~~
delhanty
I'm confused.

The lead developer up until 2 years ago, Angus Griffith's LinkedIn says he's
at Google. [0]

In April 2016, Angus replied to a comment of mine "Mathics is still
maintained. There are currently two of us working on it. The last release was
v0.9 in March this year." [1].

The _original creator_ Jan Pöschko's GitHub profile states "JavaScripter
making the notebook interface of wolframcloud.com" [2]. His bulk contributions
to Mathics stopped in 2012, but he still makes sporadic contributions to
Mathics - see here he merged a pull request March 2019 [3] - suggests Wolfram
tolerate the existence of Mathics because it's not a serious threat.

As the creator of Sage, what's your opinion of the legal risks of creating a
Mathematica syntax compatible clone like Mathics in the light of Wolfram
Research's fairly aggressive assertion of its IP "rights"?

[0] [https://www.linkedin.com/in/angus-
griffith-093433b0/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/angus-griffith-093433b0/)

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11465064](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11465064)

[2] [https://github.com/poeschko](https://github.com/poeschko)

[3]
[https://github.com/mathics/Mathics/commits?author=poeschko&s...](https://github.com/mathics/Mathics/commits?author=poeschko&since=2019-02-28&until=2019-03-31)

~~~
sn6uv
Yes, that's roughly accurate. Jan Pöschko (the creator of Mathics) went to
Wolfram in 2012 and I went to Google at the end of 2016. Since then it's been
largely unmaintained as I don't have the time to work on it unfortunately

~~~
delhanty
Thanks for the clarification Angus - appreciated.

