
VESA Publishes DisplayPort 2.0 Video Standard - zaphoyd
https://vesa.org/press/vesa-publishes-displayport-2-0-video-standard-enabling-support-for-beyond-8k-resolutions-higher-refresh-rates-for-4k-hdr-and-virtual-reality-applications/
======
davidhyde
I wish they built the following simple protocol: "Operating System: Hey
monitor, are you there? Monitor: (immediately) Hey OS, I'm still here, just
give me a moment to turn on. OS: Ok I'll wait and not put user's windows on
one monitor.

That way we won’t have this window shuffling nonsense that has plagued multi
monitor setups since we started putting pcs to sleep instead of turning them
off.

~~~
teraflop
I've been using dual monitors for years (on Windows and Ubuntu) and I can't
say I've ever had this problem. As long as the monitors are plugged into the
video card, the OS recognizes both of them regardless of whether they're
powered on.

~~~
mrchucklepants
I think it depends on the connection you use. If I turn off one of my monitors
connected via DisplayPort, Windows 10 immediately moves everything to the
monitors that are still on. My last computer, with monitors connected via DVI
did not do this.

~~~
jjeaff
I actually wish my laptop did this. I constantly have issues with some windows
staying open on the second monitor after unplugging them both from my laptop.

Sometimes I can't get to them at all on the laptop screen without forcing it
closed and reopening.

~~~
wlesieutre
FYI in Windows if you can give the correct window focus (via taskbar or alt-
tab) you can move them between screens with [win] + [shift] + [left/right
arrow].

The regular [win] + [left/right] for snapping to 1/2 screen positions will
also move it across screens if you hit it repeatedly.

~~~
glenneroo
Alternately the old-school variation (works since at least Windows 3.11):
[alt] + [space] to open upper-left corner menu, [m] to move, then [arrow keys]
to move the window around.

~~~
pmjordan
Once you've started this process, I believe you can just move the mouse
(without clicking) to move the window as well. This tends to be faster than
using the arrow keys, especially at modern display resolutions.

------
bcheung
Realistically I hope they work solidly through USB-C. I'm tired of piling up
expensive high quality monitors I can't use because they keep changing the
connections every 3 or so years.

And they really need to have larger displays 30"\+ for anything 4K and beyond.
There's not much point to a 27" 4K monitor if you have to double the scaling
just to read anything. 8K at 27" would be a complete waste.

~~~
zaphoyd
So far the earlier versions of DisplayPort have worked quite well as a USB-C
alt mode so I am hopeful.

I strongly disagree that higher resolutions are not interesting on smaller
sized displays. I personally find 21.5 inch to be the sweet spot for 4K and
welcome the better support for higher resolution so displays in the 24-30 inch
range can more easily support 220+dpi, higher refresh rates, and HDR.

~~~
penagwin
4k at 21 inches? I'm using a 4k screen at I think 31" and I have to scale
everything to read the screen. My dream is a 43" 4k monitor with no scaling.

But 1440p at 21" I think would be great. Personally I only use 1080p screens
as secondary monitors, and would never go back to 1080p for my primary
display.

~~~
sjwright
“No scaling” is a state of mind. It’s a fiction we hold onto from our purely
bitmapped, pixel art past. If your OS doesn’t adapt to high DPI monitors
cleanly, change your OS.

~~~
bcheung
Even if the OS supports it, many apps still write their own UI primitives and
won't scale with the OS scaling, or when they do, it's not uniform so the text
is either obnoxiously huge, or the UI affordances are way too small.

Working with a larger screen without scaling makes this problem go away. I
personally have 2 x 4K monitors at 32" and find it quite ideal.

~~~
robertoandred
That's a Windows problem. Macs have had high-dpi screens that work perfectly
for seven years now.

~~~
chupasaurus
The only thing macOS does is downscaling by a factor of 2 the oversized
rendering resolution (virtual display on X server). For certain dpi it works
fine, for certain it would blur everything (i.e. the screen I use atm is 24"
4K with 185 ppi).

Windows 10 has no problems rendering on ANY DPI, certain apps and frameworks
ignore it though which is not a problem of OS.

~~~
sjwright
Downscaling the screen at "retina" resolutions works _way_ better than your
intuitions assume. I thought it would be terrible and ugly, but I was wrong.
And I'm normally super picky about things being pixel-perfect.

The way macOS does it is perfect 99 percent of the time—and it guarantees no
weirdness when app developers have differing ideas about how their app should
react to scaling. Apple got this one right and everyone else should just copy
them.

------
jmull
Here’s the headline and lede, which I thought were a pretty effective TLDR:

> VESA PUBLISHES DISPLAYPORT™ 2.0 VIDEO STANDARD ENABLING SUPPORT FOR
> BEYOND-8K RESOLUTIONS, HIGHER REFRESH RATES FOR 4K/HDR AND VIRTUAL REALITY
> APPLICATIONS DisplayPort 2.0 enables up to 3X increase in video bandwidth
> performance (max payload of 77.37 Gbps); new built-in features enable
> improved user experience, greater flexibility and improved power efficiency

------
chx
This is all nice and dandy but there is not even a DP 1.3 MST hub on the
market ...

Of course, that might be because Intel IGP is still stuck on DP 1.2 and so an
overwhelming majority of laptops are DP 1.2 only as well. But for video cards,
we have been there for three years now: nVidia went full DP 1.4 with Pascal in
2016 AMD has been DisplayPort 1.4 since Polaris at least in 2016 as well.

As an aside, I am unclear whether
[https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4674/~/g...](https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4674/~/graphics-
firmware-update-for-displayport-1.3-and-1.4-displays) enabled them on most
Maxwell cards as well? [https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-
gtx-95...](https://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-
gtx-950/specifications) still says DP 1.2.

~~~
undersuit
Anandtech mentioned in their coverage that the previous versions of
Displayport "required that the branch device be capable of decoding a
DisplayPort bitstream", this new version apparently drops this requirement
which should make daisy-chaining or hub devices much less complex.

------
p1mrx
I'm impressed that they're able to squeeze 77 Gbps through a USB-C connector,
when Thunderbolt is 40 Gbps, and USB 3.2 Gen 2×2 is only 20 Gbps.

When will this stuff run into the physical limits of copper?

~~~
Dunedan
Thunderbolt 3 allows 40 Gbps in each direction using two 20 Gbps channels for
each direction. As a protocol driving a display is mainly unidirectional,
DisplayPort 2.0 simply uses all four channel for transmitting the data to the
display, resulting in 80 Gbps. So they're not squeezing more data through the
connector and the cables than Thunderbolt 3 already does, but simply do it in
one direction only.

~~~
p1mrx
Ah, that makes sense. There's probably still room in the copper for more than
20 Gbps per lane, if they switch to an encoding with more than one voltage
level, like PAM4.

------
tracker1
I'd really like for PCs to send a wakeup to the TV. My AVC and ShieldTV can
both wake up a TV connected for display, why can't a general computer do it?
Currently using a 42" 4K high refresh TV as a monitor (would prefer 36-38"
4K).

I've resolved to just use a classic screen saver to keep the TV from shutting
off, which causes total chaos when resuming from sleep.

Aside: anyone else notice how hard it is to actually use a screensaver these
days. Linux desktops have removed it from in the box mode, and windows has
totally obscured it away from you.

~~~
pault
I just bought an Intel NUC and this is one of the bios options. Those are
amazing little computers of you don't need a discreet GPU. It's the size of a
sandwich, and I got an 8th gen i7, 16gb of DDR4, and a 500gb nvme SSD for
under $600! It handles 4k HDR content flawlessly. As a computer geek of a
certain age, this is mind-blowing.

~~~
jug
I’m thinking of one of those too. Maybe with the Akasa Turing replacement case
for fabless operation. It will grow in size but not much more than two coke
cans on top of each other. And it’ll cool a Core i5 barely breaking a sweat.
The entire case is sort of a heat sink.

------
ksec
At 8K, 120hz ( Pro Motion, hopefully someday on Mac ), 10bit colour, that is
roughly ~145Gbps of Raw Bandwidth requirement.

At 6K, 120hz, 10bit ( Basically Pro XDR with 120Hz ), that is roughly ~88Gbps
of Raw Bandwidth.

The above two scenario aren't too far off. Although a 5K / 120hz / 10bit only
needs ~64Gbps. I assume in two config above they will have to use 2 x
DisplayPort 2.0 ?

( That is assuming Apple will gives us Pro Motion on Mac, why they haven't
done so is beyond me. And Why Windows haven't done something similar? )

So the future USB4 and DisplayPort 2.0 will both be based on Thunderbolt 3.
Are there any reason why TV keep sticking to HDMI? ( NIH Syndrome? )

And since DisplayPort 2.0 essentially turn TB3 into a one way connection, does
that mean there will be no more USB Pass through or Charging Laptop while
using it Display?

~~~
kurthr
It's worth noting that VESA DSC compression is available for DP interfaces at
2,3,4:1 allowing all of these on the announced standard. It's visually
lossless even in a large screen flicker test so I think we're pretty set,
except maybe for newer and more extreme daisy chaining and VR.

~~~
CaptainMarvel
What is the quality of text with DSC?

~~~
kurthr
That is where some of the most challenging images come from... especially with
white 4pt type against highly patterned backgrounds. However, frankly with a
jeweler's loupe even on the most difficult images, I can't tell the difference
flickering between compressed and uncompressed at 4:1. If you think about it,
H264 is 100:1 compression (PNG 20:1) so it's not surprising that human eye
visibility (especially at 10bit HDR and 8k) is excellent.

For a quantitative estimate, PSNR is ~40dB even on fairly extreme images,
which means less that those +/-1 code for 8bit sRGB. I'd expect even better
from 10bit and natural images to be >45dB.

~~~
CaptainMarvel
Given what you have said, I am willing to be optimistic and no longer
associate DSC with4:2:0 TV screens displaying text :)

In particular your mention of PNG reminds me that it is lossless, so the idea
of "visually lossless" at a much lower ~4:1 compression ratio seems more
reasonable to me now.

------
__david__
No mention of "Variable Refresh Rate" which is now in HDMI 2.1. I'm really
hoping once that's standardized it'll put an end to the Gsync/Freesync
nonsense we're currently dealing with.

------
MayeulC
On that topic, I was a bit sad to see that USB-C alternate mode wasn't picked
up as the display solution for the Pi 4. I have multiple devices that work
this way, and it has been a very pleasant experience.

~~~
brandmeyer
Its complex to implement. You need a type-C port controller that can speak the
funky half-duplex 300 kHz signal of USB-PD, a set of power delivery fets, some
high-speed muxes, and a little microcontroller to manage the protocol's higher
layers in realtime.

[http://www.ti.com/product/TPS65982](http://www.ti.com/product/TPS65982) is an
example of a fairly high-integration IC. Its 5USD/ea in bulk, and you still
need some other supporting IC's around it, such as - I kid you not - a flash
chip to hold its program code. Take a good hard look at section 9.3.4 of that
manual to get a taste for how complex this gets.

They only have very reduced schematics published, but it looks like the RPi4
isn't deploying a PD solution at all. I think they are just relying on the
analog signaling of Type-C. The power supply is just a "simple" type-c 5V/3A
unit.

~~~
sdrothrock
> They only have very reduced schematics published, but it looks like the RPi4
> isn't deploying a PD solution at all. I think they are just relying on the
> analog signaling of Type-C. The power supply is just a "simple" type-c 5V/3A
> unit.

This is the first I've heard of the RPi 4 not having PD -- could you point me
to the specs you saw? I searched around a bit but couldn't find anything
either way.

~~~
brandmeyer
You have to dig a bit. I got there via Main Page -> scroll to very bottom ->
documentation -> Hardware -> Raspberry Pi -> Schematics -> Raspberry Pi 4
Model B

You can see the fixed resistors attached to the CC lines for basic Type-C
analog signaling, and a simple PD_SENSE line connected to the power supply IC.

[https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...](https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberrypi/schematics/rpi_SCH_4b_4p0_reduced.pdf)

~~~
sdrothrock
Ah, wow, that's definitely a bit of digging! Thank you very much; I had my own
suspicions due to the recommended power supply but it's nice to have more
concrete evidence. :)

------
mrb
Wow, DisplayPort 2.0 offers literally twice the bandwidth of the latest HDMI
spec:

HDMI 2.1: 16 Gbit/s per pin, 3 pins total, less efficient 8b-10b encoding:
16×3×8/10 = 38.4 Gbit/s

DP 2.0: 20 Gbit/s per pin, 4 pins total, more efficient 128b-132b encoding:
20×4×128/132 = 77.576 Gbit/s

The article claims "77.37 Gbit/s" but I think that's a typo+rounding error
(.57 → .37)

------
hnick
I had an old man moment recently when I upgraded my PC and my fancy new GPU
came with 1x HDMI and 3x DisplayPort adapters. My perfectly good dual monitor
setup (which I'd been using with DVI cables) was suddenly obsolete.

They both handle HDMI so I ended up getting an adapter for one, but I never
even thought this would be something to worry about. And I'm not sure if it's
DP related but when I wake the PC from sleep one of them has a frozen image
for a little while until Windows realises it has to start animating again.

------
DocTomoe
VGA worked well enough for more than a decade (and still does today)

My work laptop, an HP Elitebook, has only a Displayport for political reasons
(HP wanted to push Displayport adoption). Do you know what presentation
infrastructure has Displayport? Absolutely nothing. The world decided upon
HDMI to be the de-facto-standard.

So I am stuck carrying dongles and adaptors around (which means I will never
have the one I need on hand) - or, if I am very lucky, I get a meeting room
with a Clickshare device (which works reasonably well, but might be unpopular
with external colleagues because it means installing some piece of software
onto your laptop)

I know how standards work ... but for the sake of it, we do not need another
option that brings virtually nothing to the table.

------
pkaye
I've been having a lot of problems with DisplayPort KVMs. I have a 4K monitor
and at the time of purchase, I think DisplayPort had better specs. But there
are very few KVMs at the 4K resolution. The one I got was literally a switch
in the sense that it didn't emulate the video and usb on the disconnected
side. There seems to be lots of problems with disconnected DisplayPort devices
and drivers. For Linux I found that shutting off the monitor would result in
the video not coming back on unless I manually did a "xset dpms" call through
ssh. In the end I now got a cheap second monitor and a USB switch for the
keyboard/mouse. It just takes up a lot more space.

~~~
pro_zac
Now that you have a second monitor, might as well use Synergy for keyboard and
mouse sharing!

[https://symless.com/synergy](https://symless.com/synergy)

~~~
redblacktree15
That product is walking dead. Use
[https://github.com/debauchee/barrier](https://github.com/debauchee/barrier)
which forked the last open source version.

~~~
pro_zac
Thanks! Will definitely give that a look since Synergy rolled back version 2
to beta.

------
mikece
Referring to USB-C connections as "alternate mode" makes me wonder if
Thunderbolt 3 will be inferior, signal-wise, to whatever physical port is
being considered (was designed?) for DisplayPort 2.

~~~
zamadatix
Alt mode is a term used by USB to describe a USB port than can carry non USB
signals (i.e. the alternate operating modes beyond USB). It's been around a
while and has nothing to do with this announcement.

------
kazinator
> _Beyond-8K Resolutions_

I'm also gonna need a sound system with a 200 dB dynamic range, with speakers
demonstrating a flat response out to 100 kHz.

------
chaz6
As far as I can tell there is still no support for touch screen displays. It
is a shame that the data rate gets higher and higher but this simple feature
is still missing.

~~~
kurthr
There is a 1Mb reverse channel supported in DP, but there are separate drivers
for Video/Touch that are required...

~~~
TomVDB
Let's not go overboard about the 1Mb claim: it's an incredibly inefficient
protocol. At best, you'll be able to push 200Kbps through it, and that's for
writes. Reads are much slower.

~~~
kurthr
10 fingers at 100Hz with 4bytes each is 4kBps or 32kbps so that's not really a
problem for a self contained touch screen.

If you want raw data... then yes, you'll need 10Mbps or so.

------
shmerl
So, USB 4 will support alternative mode with DP 2.0?

~~~
nrclark
A note on this, for anybody who's curious. USB-C is actually its own
specification, so it's not part of the USB 3.0 series of specs. Presumably it
won't be part of the USB 4.0 spec either.

a USB type-C connector actually carries a USB-2 lane, as well as carrying a
couple of USB-3 lanes (and some other miscellaneous stuff). So it's not really
the same category of standard.

------
bhouston
Built on Thunderbolt 3. Neat.

------
boyadjian
I love DisplayPort !

------
unixhero
The HDMI protocol works better. Period.

~~~
mrstone
Curious why you think this

~~~
unixhero
Because I use both, replug 10s of times a day on different oses. HDMI is more
seamless.

~~~
dlivingston
Given that DisplayPort 2.0 was literally just _announced_ , you really can't
compare the performance/usability of X to DP2.0.

