
The sexual threats against Emma Watson are an attack on every woman - emcarey
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/23/6832243/the-sexual-threats-against-emma-watson-are-an-attack-on-women?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=article-share-top
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vonklaus
This is going to devolve into a flame war. I did read EW's speech and it was
really good. She was talking about equality and problems that both genders
face, and the courage and danger one has and will experience when doing
something like this. HOWEVER, we can't just blame 4Chan. Anonymous message
boards provide a bellwether for attitudes, even at the fringe. 4chan
represents freedom of speech and expression for those on the channel, AND an
insight into problems society faces. People are dissatisfied with the flavor
of Feminism that does #killallmen(real trend) and crucified the scientists who
developed the nail polish GHB test. 4chan and radfems represent the fringes of
these groups, and it is important to have visibility for both in order to 1:
define free speech, 2: better evaluate the middle (where most actors actually
belong)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
"Free speech" gets more generally interpreted every day. On the internet it
often means "any casual thought expressed in any way at all". It could mean
something more restricted and still result in a functioning society.

Btw "free speech" as an American ideal is rooted in the government not
interfering. It still allows private citizens to support/ignore/not publish
anything they don't care to.

Also her speech was really good. Usually 'personalities' don't express
themselves nearly that well.

------
emcarey
What role do anonymous forums play in the macro problem of the lack of female
leadership? A big one.

We, as a community of innovators, need to stop these online communities of
'hackers against women' from existing because their threats, like the nude
leaking of emma watson photos, prevent women from being public figures,
starting companies and sadly participating in a huge chunk of the internet.
Read below an excerpt from the article:

"Those three problems — women being threatened, women being pressured to
change their own behavior to avoid sexual assault, and women being told that
they don't deserve protection unless they stay pure and ladylike — are all
individually terrible. But together, they add up to something even worse: a
vicious cycle that pressures women out of public life. When we tell women that
the threats and attacks they experience are their own fault, for failing to be
sufficiently chaste or failing to take "responsible" precautions, we are
telling them that they are on their own: that they cannot rely on society's
protection against those crimes. How many women hear that message and decide
that they have no choice but to give up that activist campaign or to turn down
that higher-profile job or to hold off on writing that article? How hard will
it be for UN Women to recruit its next Goodwill Ambassador?"

~~~
marcus_holmes
While I sympathise, I will point out that you're just feeding the trolls.

The online anonymous forums are annoying and intrusive, yes, but ultimately
they're a bunch of idiots throwing peanuts at each other. If you stop paying
them any attention then magically they stop existing.

Yes, call out bad behaviour when we see it. Yes, push prosecutions for hacking
phones. And yes, let women know that we support them and provide a counter-
voice to the burbling shite from the trolls.

But every single time we get all enraged and call for 4chan to be banned, we
make the trolls happy. It's impossible to stop them from talking to each
other, because internet. So "banning" them will not achieve anything except
give them outlaw status that they'll enjoy and that will attract more idiots.

If you need a positive way to look at it, then think of it as a sign of how
far we've come. We've actually made people uncomfortable with how much we've
managed to change society, so they're now trying to push back. The best thing
to do is ignore them and keep going :)

------
x0x0
Claiming 4chan or reddit unanimously support the Emma Watson stuff is stupid.
You can be a very heavy user of 4chan, not hang out in /b/, and be completely
unaware of the Emma Watson site. Similarly with reddit.

    
    
       The site threatening Watson was greeted with glee on 4chan and Reddit, where 
       commenters explicitly stated their hope that the threats would force her to 
       abandon her feminist campaigning.
    

The plural of anecdote is not data. There are misogynist commenters on 4chan
and reddit, but using a handful of idiots to characterize everyone on those
boards verges on nutpicking. And Amanda, if you're reading this, I'd bet good
money the reason people don't argue with the misogynists on those sites is the
same reason you don't wrestle with pigs. I assume moot uses /b/ as an asshole
sink: the assholes go there, make a lot of noise, and hopefully leave the rest
of 4chan alone.

I agree with the rest of her article -- the US and world are often quite
hostile to women, and it's still true that a woman who sleeps around is a slut
but a guy who sleeps around is a stud. Hopefully the Emma site is just some
dickhead with $7 for godaddy and too much time on his hands who figured out a
way to troll a ton of people.

I wish I knew the correct response to the people who deluge outspoken women
with rape threats. Perhaps part of the answer is George Tierney of South
Carolina [1].

[1] [http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/05/20/internet-man-does-
no...](http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/05/20/internet-man-does-not-want-to-
be-on-the-google-anymore/)

~~~
emcarey
To be clear- I AM NOT saying that reddit or 4chan supports these communities.
I love reddit. I just think it's time we stop saying well it's the "internet"
so trolls will be trolls and women just have to 'deal' with it.

We can say 'no, this is unacceptable behavior' and not allow violent threats
against women to be tolerated on the platforms that we love.

~~~
nickthemagicman
And how the hell do you plan to stop it?

You should know there's also racism on the web, vulgar pictures of Mohammed,
massive amounts of patent law violations, criticism of govts, violent threats
against every race class and walk of life on a microsecond basis.

Yet somehow offended rich first world women is finally the 'intolerable'
situation big enough to "not allow on the platforms that we love."

Please.

Trolls are the canary on the coal mine signaling a free uncensored internet.
You should be grateful for them.

And yes you do have to suck it up and deal with it just like everybody else.

Which apparently isn't a problem for Jennifer Lawrence.

------
Harperdog
This is such an important read. Please do what you can to stop this kind of
misogyny, on the internet and everywhere.

~~~
vonklaus
I agree that people should do what they can to act civily, however, The
internet is not a "safe space" it is A SPACE. It is the core of freedom of
speech. Things like threats, the suggestion of violence, and otherwise illegal
activities are NEVER ACCEPTABLE. Misogyny always has a place in America as
long as free speech stands. Freedom is the most important tenet of out
society.

~~~
lomnakkus
> The internet is not a "safe space" it is A SPACE.

I don't see why we can't work toward making it a "safe _r_ space" without
censorship. I think we should call out misogynistic, ablist, transphobic, etc.
statements wherever we see them. Even if it doesn't convince the poster, at
least it lets other _readers_ know that these are not attitudes that we, as a
society, think are acceptable.

