
Airports Create Hotel Complexes, Aiming to Become Destinations - pavornyoh
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/business/airports-create-hotel-complexes-aiming-to-become-destinations.html?ref=business
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ececconi
I've stayed at an airport hotel for two years while on a consulting gig from
monday-thursdays. It wasn't by choice, it was because the client had a
negotiated rate with the airport. It was a nice hotel and all, but it is a bit
tiring being so close to so many people who are in between the places they
want to be.

This article wasn't clear what the person means by destination or why a
business person would knowingly choose and airport hotel over a hotel right
next to the client site.

I still think the main use case for airport hotel are travelers who miss a
connection or flight and need a quick check in. Conferences and big groups
might also be another use case because I'm sure airport hotels may give
discounts for booking in advance since so many of their customers are people
who check in last minute.

If the hotel is nice enough, would this be a good idea for weddings? No need
for a bunch of people to get taxi's or rental cars to the destination?

I'm really not sure if the hotels need any other reason to build a hotel than
to have an onsite location to house displaced passengers.

~~~
syntheticnature
I once attended a wedding reception in a nice airport hotel. It was one of the
nicer ones I attended, you could not hear the airport at all from the
reception hall (which was, admittedly, in the basement), and valet parking was
included if you stayed the night (I drove up, there was no direct flight so it
did not make sense to fly, especially with the wedding proper being off-site).

I suppose that highlights the issue versus a wedding: many people want to
attend the ceremony, too, and depending on your preferences that might not be
doable at the hotel, at which point transport is required (though it could be
a rented bus).

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drglitch
The economics ends up being pretty questionable. I recently wanted to stay at
an airport hotel (well 5 min away from airport) for a last night of a vacation
trip due to a 10 am flight next morning - but the cost was almost 25% more
than comparable city hotel. End result was a wake up 30 min earlier and a
7euro shuttle bus ride, but also a last evening lazily spent at a great in-
city restaurant.

Unless you are just connecting, the noise, the rush of frustrated travelers,
and comparably high prices I've seen in this kind of places just don't provide
that much of a value in my opinion.

~~~
nommm-nommm
Depends on the city. I've stayed at a JFK airport hotel for a price you would
never get in Manhattan.

Also some cities you need to leave a lot of time for possible traffic delays.

~~~
mtanski
And you had all the great amenities that you cannot get in Manhattan like the
Casino and the Race track not far off.

~~~
kchoudhu
Can't tell if serious, or greatest deadpan comment ever.

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sageabilly
All I can think of is how terrible it is to sleep in a hotel right next to a
major airport thoroughfare. Unless these places will have some incredible
soundproofing I think they'll just be a very fancy place to lie in bed,
staring at the ceiling and listening to the plane engines.

~~~
ghaff
Airport hotels typically have pretty good soundproofing. I've never had an
issue with noise even staying at hotels that are literally connected to the
terminals.

~~~
sageabilly
Nice to know! I've never stayed _at_ an airport, only adjacent to. I guess I'm
staying at the wrong places.

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jkot
I am looking for a house next to an airport. Flights in EU are often cheaper
than bus. And many conferences are happening because local city is Ryanair
hub.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Buying a house is a long-time investment, and I don't think the situation with
air travel will last - current prices are unsustainable. Make sure this
location has other benefits that will still be there in 10 or 15 years.

~~~
stevesearer
Why are current air travel prices unsustainable?

I was recently trying to find out why Norwegian Airlines had flights from LAX
<-> Sweden, Finland, or Norway for less than $400 and the best answer I could
come up with was the improved fuel economy of Boeing's 787 Dreamliner.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Let's take a 747-400, which (I think) could be used for such a flight. It
takes up to 660 passengers, and every single one of them would have to pay
$700 to _just_ cover the fuel costs. That is, in 2008 fuel prices[0]. And you
still have to pay the pilots, flight attendants, ground crews and somehow keep
the lights on on the airport.

Tickets for normal travelers are _ridiculously_ underpriced; the reason
airlines stay alive is a combination of government subsidies, business tickets
being much more expensive, and all those annoying ticket pricing schemes -
from trying to trick you into buying insurance, through prices increasing when
you refresh the site in your browser, to crazy rebooking fees, etc.

Fuel prices aren't going to go down in the long run, even only if because we
will have to start dealing with climate change eventually; some politicians
are bound to regain minimum of sanity at some point and price the issue into
fuel. Meanwhile, air crews all over the world are going on strike because of
low pay and cuts. At the same time, passengers want to fly more and for less.
The era of cheap air travel is bound to end soon, and I doubt even Ryanair can
invent many more annoying ways to make additional money on the side to
compensate for the ticket price.

[0] - [http://www.airliners.net/aviation-
forums/general_aviation/re...](http://www.airliners.net/aviation-
forums/general_aviation/read.main/3986572/)

~~~
mikeyouse
There's no way it would take $700/passenger for fuel to fly from LAX to
Northern Europe.. Even if you do assume a 747-400.. Add an hour for a flight
from LAX to London and you get ~12hrs flight time to get to Sweden or Denmark.

Some approx numbers:

1,000kg for taxi / rollout, 15,000kg to take off and get to cruising altitude,
10,000kg/hr average at altitude, another 5,000kg for landing/taxi..

You'd be looking at roughly 125,000kg of fuel burned for a flight of that
distance. A gallon of Jet A weighs ~3.1kg which would correspond to roughly
40,000 gallons of fuel per flight. The average cost of Jet-A as paid by
commercial airlines in 2015 is $2/gallon. [1]

In summary, it would cost about $80,000 in fuel for that flight, if you had a
90% full airliner of 600 people, the per-ticket fuel cost is only $133.

Wiki confirms the approximate numbers where they list the 747-400 at 72mi/us
gallon/seat (only showing 415 seats on the airplane). A 5,500-mile flight from
LAX to Sweden would then take 31,000 gallons of fuel, which again at $2 would
cost $62,000 or $150/seat.

[1] -
[http://www.transtats.bts.gov/fuel.asp](http://www.transtats.bts.gov/fuel.asp)

[2] -
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft#Long_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft#Long_haul)

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CaptainZapp
They're building a huge new complex at Zurich airport:

[http://www.thecircle.ch/en/](http://www.thecircle.ch/en/)

which will not only include one, but two new Hyatt Hotels. Even though the
complex is very much integrated into the airport I can't imagine that it will
provide a secure area or direct access for cleared passangers.

Then again we'll see when it's done.

~~~
saryant
I stayed at the Radisson Blu on the ZRH airport last year. Incredibly
convenient for stupid-early flights and a 2 minute walk to the check-in area
but I can't imagine staying there longer than one night.

It was a nice hotel, sure, but why?

~~~
CaptainZapp
From what I gather is that they want to really build something like a small
city within the airport, which would be an attraction and people magnet in
itself.

Plus there are building convention facilities, which may or may not fill the
hotels.

A major problem that airport hotels will have in Zurich (including the
Radisson Blu) is that the airport is a 10 minute train ride from the city
center. Unless you have to be at the airport around 5am, or you are coming
from a different city an airport hotel doesn't really make that much sense for
ZRH. And even then a taxi from town will be significantly cheaper; even at
Zurich taxi prices.

That's quite different from CDG, or LHR which are relatively far from the city
center (and relatively badly connected in the example of Paris), plus the fact
that they are huge.

So an airport hotel at those places certainly makes more sense.

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corbet
Ah, the Denver Weston...so expensive that they have had to cut a lot of non-
essential expenses to pay for it. Little things like runway maintenance...
[http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25256976/denver-airport-
cu...](http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25256976/denver-airport-cuts-
maintenance-costs-showcase-project-rise)

~~~
jessaustin
$500M for a hotel-train-station complex seems like quite a bit, but the really
shocking number at that link was $400M for a _single_ new runway. What am I
missing?

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oneJob
One step closer to WALL-E

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syntheticnature
This isn't the first time airports have tried to do this; before the current
era of only being able to get past security with a boarding pass, many
airports tried to lure shoppers. Pittsburgh airport in particular emphasized
their Airmall attraction, originally aimed at local shoppers.

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mosburger
There's a fantastic hotel at Kansai airport in Osaka that I used to stay at to
recover from the trans-Pacific flight:
[http://www.nikkokix.com/e/](http://www.nikkokix.com/e/)

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c_moscardi
WRT the TWA flight center at Kennedy, this coming weekend is the last chance
for the general public to see it before redevelopment, via Open House NY!

[http://www.ohny.org/](http://www.ohny.org/)

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golemotron
Not quite the same but I predicted after 9/11 that airports would grow living
facilities beyond security for people who wanted to be "safe."

Doesn't seem like they are talking about these being behind airport security
however.

~~~
knd775
I feel like that would be a bit dangerous. Have you ever seen the YouTube
channel Terminal Cornucopia? It would be quite easy to make improvised weapons
with that much time and privacy.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Also note that what's a better target for an attack than huge masses of people
people crowding in the security line?

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electricblue
Makes a lot of sense, you have easy access to customers whenever a flight gets
cancelled and with enough soundproofing the experience could be good for
everyone.

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usrusr
One step closer to making it completely optional to ever set for on public
space again? (for those who can afford it)

Feels quite dystopian to me.

