
What I Learned Co-Founding Dribbble - doppp
http://simplebits.com/2019/06/25/dribbble.html
======
hurricanesugar
One thing Dan didn't mention in the article is that he wrote 3 books about web
design _before_ Dribbble's launch: Web Design Solutions (2004), Bulletproof
Web Design (2005) and Handcrafted CSS (2009). These books were unique among
the first to hit a then-niche market: web designers who cared about quality.
This was the perfect set-up to launching a platform for web designers who
cared about quality and likely foundational to the early growth of Dribbble.

~~~
huhtenberg
Precisely.

What launched Dribbble into a high orbit was a combination of three things.

1\. It was _really_ well executed. It didn't just look good, it has zero
friction in use. The UX was flawless. You'd think "I wonder if I can do this",
click where it would logically belong and, lo and behold, that thing _was_
there and it worked exactly as you'd expect. It was, to use pg's qualifier,
delightful.

2\. It was seeded with top-tier designers from the start whom Dan was able to
recruit because he was well-known in respective circles. If I were to try and
reproduce this, it won't work no matter who good the site was, simply because
I am nobody with no street rep.

3\. Invitation-only system that was completely closed to the public in the
beginning. All you'd see are "leaked" screenshots on sites like PatternTap
from the member of the cool boys club, and they looked spectacular. So when
they allowed public in, still with no way to post, the whole thing just took
off - it already had the community that was massively appealing and it was
flattering to become a part of it. Invites were golden, the hype was over the
top.

Regrettably, after it was sold to Tiny/Meta the quality of the site took a
nose dive. They keep pushing out questionable "improvements" that clearly aim
to improve their engagement stats rather than to be actually useful to the
members. They reworked Pro accounts, bloating them with very niche and largely
useless features and using that to raise the prices. What used to be an annual
$20 no-brainer tip to Dan and Rich for their great job become an obnoxious
$60/year subscription. They were getting an earful with every such
improvement, so they now disable comments on every new announcement. I really
wish Dan was back an the helm. He and Rich showed very unusual levels of
restraint and common sense, and they _did_ in fact listen to the people rather
their analytics numbers.

* A Dribbble member since 2010.

~~~
dplgk
> it won't work no matter who good the site was, simply because I am nobody
> with no street rep.

Sadly this is the case so many times when I read these types of articles with
hopes of real insights. There's some mention like "so I was talking to my
friend who founded Huge Startup and he was like 'yea, great idea!'. So I built
my prototype and sent it off to other person from Hot Unicorn and it just grew
organically because of my hard work and smarts!"

------
leetrout
This is a great article and while my startup didn't make it past 5 members the
advice in here is solid.

On shirts (and swag):

My startup had a mascot at the end and I wish we would have had it upfront and
had stickers.

It may seem trite but it's even documented in books like Managing the
Unmanageable (or might have been Peopleware) that Apple made shirts for
projects. When I worked at NatGeo we made internal swag for our project.

For me personally, living in a world of intangible software, stickers and
shirts give me something physical I can hold in my hand. Something I can wear
or point to and relate to what I'm doing.

On not knowing what you're doing:

I think the best people I've worked with are very intelligent and curious and
do great work for things they don't understand because they ask a ton of
questions to learn it which helps lead to epiphanies. It doesn't always shake
out that way but with a group of motivated individuals it is so rewarding.

On everything being temporary:

Leaving design / trends aside and looking at our code-- our engineering-- this
is absolutely true. For any devops engineers out here reading this:
repeatability helps a TON. It's so much easier to migrate from bash scripts to
RPM/Deb and from RPM/Deb to Docker. Or from [Puppet|Chef|Ansible|Salt] to [New
Flavor Of The Week]. Once it's codified in some way it's so easy to move it
forward. Automation == repeatability == freedom.

On people are everything:

Please, please, please don't hire smart jerks. Great, you're smart, you can
program in 10 languages and worked at a FANG. If the team doesn't want to sit
next to you and work with you on a project I am hoping to shape my life, my
future and my family's outcomes 8+ hours a day (even remote) it's going to
spoil the whole bunch.

I could go on and on for each section. I loved this article. Y'all will
certainly find parts you disagree with but on the whole it is great and very
applicable.

~~~
janlaureys
Smart jerks are the worst. I work with a few of them and they can really be
insufferable.

They interrupt every conversation (IRL or through Rocketchat) because they
know absolutely everything about the subject you happend to be talking about.
I have started to use the AKSHUALLY meme image in retaliation from time to
time.

But what gets me the most is their self-importance. The bragging about the
import people they have met, or the presentations they are asked to do. It
gets really old really quick.

~~~
fancy_pantser
At Recurse Center, it's the #1 social rule. Some folks have a hard time
adjusting, but the environment is materially improved when everyone respects
the rule.

    
    
      1. No well-actually’s
      2. No feigned surprise
      3. No backseat driving
      4. No subtle -isms
    

[https://www.recurse.com/social-rules](https://www.recurse.com/social-rules)

~~~
victor9000
While I disagree with the concept of pushing one's beliefs on onto other team
members, I think it's good that you guys are upfront about your philosophy.
This way people can use this information to decide if they want to be involved
with your organization or not. I recently joined a seemingly normal team only
to discover a culture packed with unwritten rules and arbitrary taboo, a
situation I would have completely avoided if only I had known the reality of
the situation.

~~~
leetrout
At a previous job my first week included 4 people telling me they were sorry I
had to work with the person I was working with and several more explaining the
political undercurrent / power holds.

And that’s really hard to shrug off.

------
bdotdub
I really like Dan and have been following his stuff since the mid-2000s, but
it's hard to apply this advice generally.

#2 and #3 are only effective if you're Dan Cederholm. He already had a
reputation which put him in a very luxurious position to essentially choose
his first users _and_ have them actually use it. The same goes for #3 –
imagine if all of the "people you want on your platform" got tshirts and
postcards from every startup that wanted them?

~~~
GVIrish
Don't take it so literally. Can you find 100 people (or a few dozen) in your
circles that could be first users of your product? Start with them. If you
have trouble gaining traction with those folks, you may have trouble getting
others to pay for your product.

The caveat being that you have to make sure the people you're inviting fit
somewhere in your customer profile. You can get discouraging feedback if your
initial invitees don't fit your product.

------
bredren
I am not as convinced making a t-shirt for your startup as a first thing is a
great idea. I think that can actually be an indicator of playing house. But
you can do whatever you want.

~~~
joegahona
I worked on a musical once where the book writer did photo shoots, logos, and
T-shirts before the actual script, and it was a sign of bad things to come. So
I agree with you and think this advice is mainly only a thing if you're on the
level of Cederholm.

As an aside, I like the idea of ending a response with "But you can do
whatever you want." I'm going to end every work email today with that!

------
haolez
The point about hiring _good_ lawyers and accountants is important. I’ve been
misguided in the past project by both lawyers and accountants that didn’t know
my type of business very well, but acting like they did.

------
dvtrn
Dan and some of his early books and tutorials / opinions on web design I owe
so much of my career to. It’s always a treat seeing him pop up here.

------
dewitt
> "What I Learned Co-Founding Dribble"

As a benefit to readers who aren't already familiar with Dribble, or with the
author, perhaps he could add a quick introductory sentence to the article
saying both who "I" refers to, and also what Dribble is.

Interestingly, neither anywhere appears on the page anywhere, nor above the
fold on the "About" page.

PS: Seems like a good article and a very interesting author.

------
_rrnv
This post will probably be undervalued and overlooked guessing by the slow
pace of points and comments, but over the years I have read countless similar
ones and to be honest this is the most substantial writeup I have ever
encountered. Each point is exactly what matters. The tshirt idea is brilliant.
Thanks!

~~~
leetrout
It was a great read and certainly aligns with my take-aways from being at a
startup from day 1 as well as joining other startups at early and late stages.

------
winter_blue
Wow, this is a really great article. My favorite pieces of advice are the last
four ones:

 _> 17\. Write, teach, and share what you’re learning_

I totally agree. Getting into blogging, and being a part of a blogging
community can be a great way to connect with people in your field, _and_ help
others along the way.

 _> 18\. Don’t take funding_

Yes!

 _> 19\. Take care of yourself first_

This is too often under-emphasized.

 _> 20\. Knowing when to let go_

Something that we all probably struggle with.

------
nojvek
His piece about funding was very true. If you truly care about the community
and slowly evolving things, VC may not be the right approach.

VC money is about scaling fast and colonizing. It may not be for everyone and
I'm guessing tons of great products got destroyed because they tried to grow
too fast before getting a product market fit.

------
tiffanyh
For those not aware, Dribbble was acquired by Metalab/Tiny back in 2017 (and
is briefly referenced under #20)

[https://medium.com/@awilkinson/dribbble-2-0-c2cd1fa184c5#.8k...](https://medium.com/@awilkinson/dribbble-2-0-c2cd1fa184c5#.8k5gezlet)

------
keithnz
I "discovered" dribble a little while ago, but I've just realized I think I
have been completely unaware of what it really is. I found and use it for
helping select color combos.

I basically go to
[https://dribbble.com/colors/E94F2E](https://dribbble.com/colors/E94F2E) with
a color I'm pondering about, and just find pleasing combos, click through to
their palette. Very cool. I was thinking it would be nice to have a vscode
plugin color picker based on this. It's certainly help me make nicer looking
things.

------
dbmueller
Regarding 'start up's:

I have a project idea that i think is pretty good and think could actually be
useful to people and fill a niche, but:

* Nobody close to me I mentioned it to seems really interested.

* I am not 100% sure it would actually work/be useful/generate revenue/...

* I work full time and don't really want to invest my week-ends developing an idea I'm not sure will catch on.

What's the best next step? How do I evaluate my idea's chances? How can I get
feedback without risking it getting stolen (very little chance but it would
sting)

~~~
bredren
It sounds like you should not do it. Bootstrapping startups take commitment to
use your free time. Raising money requires you show effort that would take up
your free time. Worrying about having your idea stolen shows you haven’t spent
much time learning about how this stuff works. Either dive in or go do
something else.

~~~
dbmueller
But the thing is I like the idea and should like to see it executed (by me
ideally)

~~~
GFischer
Set up a very short timeframe and goal - let´s say, I´m going to make a
prototype (or code feature X) this weekend.

Then show it here :) .

The risk of it "getting stolen" exists, of course.. but if you don´t do it
it´s exactly the same. If you aren´t convinced, you think someone else will
have the time and commitment to do it? Unless they were already planning on
it.

My recommendation: go ahead and do it. Maybe you need some structured help,
join a hackathon?

~~~
dbmueller
Fair points. I like the 'short timeframe/small goal' idea... might try that.

Thanks for the tips!

------
uptown
Any other HN users also Dribble users? Here's mine:

[https://dribbble.com/davidmcooper](https://dribbble.com/davidmcooper)

------
tmepskdj
The best advice I ever read on founding your own company. Clear and concise
without any fluff about big markets.

------
apl002
I am curious, especially being a logo/branding expert, if Dan ever got push
back on 3 b's in the name?

~~~
mi100hael
Not Dan, but naming these days is hard. You basically have to invent a word to
get a .com domain and good SEO.

"Dribbble" is good because you can tell people "the name is 'dribble' with
three b's" and people will immediately know how to spell it and their first
instinct will be "dribbble.com" and if they search for it, it will be the top
search result.

Contrast that with a properly-spelled word like "Dribble." Their app will be
nowhere near the top of any search result and people will go to dribble.com
which is no-doubt already registered so they'll lose traffic because the
domain will have to be something else unintuitive like dribble.io or
dribbleapp.com.

~~~
apl002
" "Dribbble" is good because you can tell people "the name is 'dribble' with
three b's" and people will immediately know how to spell it and their first
instinct will be "dribbble.com" and if they search for it, it will be the top
search result. "

Totally agree with that. great point. I asked his question cause I am
considering 3 letters in my startups name and I often use Dribbble as a
reference that it can be done. I've done for the exact reason you mentioned.
In 2019, getting a .com domain + instagram + twitter handles is really
difficult.

------
mi100hael
_> "No thanks, I’m too busy."_

 _> I know. What a moron I was._

I don't think that's moronic. No one should hold it against you if you have to
say no to things because you already have a full plate. Saying "no" is
healthy. People should do it (politely, of course) more often.

------
webdood90
A refreshing read, honestly.

------
fabiensanglard
Great content. But why use ragged-right?

~~~
sp332
Because justified leads to inconsistent word and letter spacing.

~~~
CharlesW
Fully-justified text is also generally harder to read for everyone, but for
dyslexic folks especially. On the web, this is exacerbated by browsers'
relatively poor support for fine, print-quality type layout.

~~~
omarchowdhury
Do you have any links that explore this?

~~~
mattkevan
Studies have found that justified text reduces reading speed by up to 11% as
the eye has to do more work to find the next word as they’re irregularly
spaced.

I did a quick search and found a PDF [0] (page 8) referencing a study from
1986, but a lot of work has been done on typography and readability over the
years. Actually, even though it’s pretty old, that document is full of solid
design advice.

[0]
[http://core.ecu.edu/engl/tpc/MennoMenno/ftp/williams%202000....](http://core.ecu.edu/engl/tpc/MennoMenno/ftp/williams%202000.pdf)

------
VuongN
Was reading article while listening to his banjo song:
[https://dancederholm.bandcamp.com/track/election-
day](https://dancederholm.bandcamp.com/track/election-day). Good article,
fellow Masshol...yman!

------
whywhywhywhy
[https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759672/dribbble-ceo-
zac...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/26/18759672/dribbble-ceo-zack-onisko-
timothy-reynolds-account-suspension)

Not sure I'd consider any company good that bans (highly followed) users who
disagree with the owners or criticize the site on other social networks.

~~~
VuongN
I read the article and full disclosure, I don't use Dribbble and am not a
member. My thought is that temporarily suspending a user based on report from
community members is reasonable. Dribbble looks like a very social/community-
centric site, I'd imagine if a rogue member were to post inappropriate
content, the community can come together and help moderate. This also mean
that if community members feel personally offended and take it the other way,
and ding someone like in this instance, the site steps in and make it right.
Again, Dribbble unbanned him shortly after. I just feel like it's a non-issue-
but that's just my opinion.

~~~
mrcodedude
That is very obviously not what happened.

[https://dribbble.com/turnislefthome](https://dribbble.com/turnislefthome)

50k followers, no new shots since February. This isn't a "rogue account"
posting "inappropriate content."

Don't you think it is suspect that his account (no activity in months) is
"flagged" on the same day the CEO blocks him on Twitter for legitimate chirps?

~~~
jmull
The guy was ranting away on twitter about some recently announced changes,
attacking the company and the CEO. It doesn't take a conspiracy for both the
users to flag him and the CEO to block him in response.

I don't know and I'm not going to try to guess, but I think the simplest
answer is the most likely and the simplest answer is that the angry rant
elicited strong reactions from multiple people.

~~~
huhtenberg
This "guy" has been an integral part of the Dribbble community for as long as
I can remember, churning out and sharing absolutely incredible work. Just look
at his portfolio. Front page material, literally created a new style trend
with his desaturated low-poly mini scenes.

Dribbble got from him being a member far more than he got from being on
Dribbble. If there's someone who full on deserves the right to criticize the
site, that'd be him.

CEO picked a personal fight with one of most visible and respected members. He
should've not. It was indeed _petty_.

~~~
jmull
It's great he has been such a strong contributor to the community, but that
doesn't mean people can't object to a twitter rant.

> CEO picked a personal fight

Did he though? That's not evident. Maybe you know differently?

Honestly, I don't really care, but I see one guy ranting in public, throwing
around angry insults and accusations without backup and I'm OK if people don't
give him what he wants.

