
Amazon Plans to Split HQ2 in Two Locations: NY and VA - tysone
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/05/technology/amazon-second-headquarters-split.html
======
freditup
> Amazon executives met two weeks ago with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo in the
> governor’s Manhattan office, said one of the people briefed on the process,
> adding that the state had offered potentially hundreds of millions of
> dollars in subsidies

> “I am doing everything I can,” Governor Cuomo told reporters when asked
> Monday about the state’s efforts to lure the company. “We have a great
> incentive package,” he said.

> “I’ll change my name to Amazon Cuomo if that’s what it takes,” Governor
> Cuomo said. “Because it would be a great economic boost.”

If these quotes are truly representative of Cuomo's attitude towards Amazon,
that's an incredible amount of pandering for the governor of the state
containing New York City to be doing. Isn't large amounts of incentives for
Amazon essentially a trickle-down economics policy? Interesting to see that
Cuomo, ostensibly a progressive, would be for such a thing.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _that 's an incredible amount of pandering for the governor of the state
> containing New York City to be doing_

Pandering is free.

I imagine infrastructure-based incentives will be popular in New York. Large
tenants make big infrastructure possible. That enables further density, which
means more jobs, more municipal budget and more demand for local commerce.
Turning Amazon's HQ2 into the catalyst for building out Western Brooklyn and
LIC infrastructure isn't a bad trade for the city. (Tax credits would be tone
deaf, but if done in a budget-neutral manner _could_ be okay.)

New York City is a commercial centre. Pragmatism wins votes.

~~~
dunpeal
Indeed. Many people will say dropping a huge Amazon campus in Queens will
adversely effect the character of the city, and exacerbate many of its issues.

I don't necessarily disagree with them, and if it was up to me, I'd rather
Amazon land in Dallas that probably needs the jobs more.

However, this will be an objectively good thing for NYC as a center of
commerce, and help establish it as a tech hub at a time its local job market
isn't doing all too well.

Moreover, I doubt Amazon will game the system so excessively that it won't end
up paying in taxes and investment and influx of business and salaries much
more than it will receive in tax breaks.

It's unlikely they'll game the system so badly because it's not wise to screw
the municipal authorities that can make your life miserable.

~~~
killjoywashere
> I'd rather Amazon land in Dallas that probably needs the jobs more.

Having lived there, disincentivizing jobs and thereby incentivizing
emmigration is the best outcome for most _people_ in the DFW area. What a
hellhole. "I want to die in Dallas" said noone ever.

~~~
brobdingnagians
I grew up around Dallas, a lot of the suburbs around there are _really_ nice
(All-American feel, everybody goes to high school football games, etc.), had a
lot of the fastest growing communities in the nation, the economy is booming
in Texas, lower taxes, family friendly, and the culture is a lot more
neighborly/friendly than most of the places I've lived (our neighbors brought
over cookies when we moved in). Curious what gave you the opposite impression?

~~~
lotsofpulp
It’s funny to me that your example of all American is changing pretty quickly,
at least in places with educated parents, since it involves watching children
get brain damage.

~~~
brobdingnagians
Hehe, I actually hate football, and my mom never liked it either since she
wanted us to have brain cells and such (we all played basketball instead), but
I give it as an example of a community thing people did and supported. Totally
agree on that point though.

------
resters
VA was chosen for its proximity to regulators.

Consider that if Microsoft had put an office in the DC area in the mid 1990s
we would all be shopping at some e-commerce behemoth owned by Microsoft.

The reality is that for a company like Amazon, regulatory risk is the biggest
existential threat to the company's future, and the only way to fight
regulatory risk is through extensive lobbying and various legal forms of
bribery that involve lots of face time with powerful officials.

~~~
brownbat
The best hedge against regulatory risk wouldn't be jobs in DC, but jobs that
turn a light red state purple, or a purple state blue.

Maybe that's partly why Northern Virginia is a leading candidate, but it seems
like there might have been even stronger options.

Having a workforce in a low population swing state could have disproportionate
impact on national politics. It could elect Dems, or turn against them if they
move to break Amazon up.

(I'm not saying this because I know which party would favor Amazon more, but
just because polling suggests tech workers are mostly blue, so I think that's
the direction you'd start.)

This is if politics were the only consideration, though I'd wager the main
considerations are far more mundane, something actuarial.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
>The best hedge against regulatory risk wouldn't be jobs in DC, but jobs that
turn a light red state purple, or a purple state blue.

How so? If you turn a state purple or blue you're now at risk of being
regulated by the state in addition to federally. Red states are generally
hands off when it comes to business.

~~~
brownbat
Imagine green and purple instead of red and blue.

If you give a state to green, with the power to turn it back purple any time
green threatens your workers, you have the policy leadership in a bit of a
hostage crisis.

Ideology is flexible in big tents, and everyone is a pragmatist with respect
to their constituency. Ds in hunting states are more circumspect on guns and
Rs near DC go much easier on federal employees.

------
throwaway427
The stunning transfer of wealth from technology companies to residential
landlords through their employees will continue.

~~~
Alex3917
Don't forget though that that area in NYC has a _ton_ of both empty space and
low-value commercial space that can be torn down and redeveloped. It's also
home to one of the biggest transportation deserts in the city, which will be
functionally unlocked in the next five years or so once self-driving cars are
a thing.

While stuff takes time to build, at the end of the day there is a lot more
land to build buildings than there are people who want to live there. And
unlike in SF, if there is new demand then those buildings will actually get
built.

edit: Was referring to the LIC location, not VA.

~~~
jacques_chester
> _It 's also home to one of the biggest transportation deserts in the city,
> which will be functionally unlocked in the next five years or so once self-
> driving cars are a thing._

Self-driving cars don't magically make other cars, self-driving or not, vanish
from the roads and they certainly can't match the raw throughput of moving
thousands of people in a single train on a dedicated right of way.

~~~
Alex3917
> Self-driving cars don't magically make other self-driving cars vanish

I mean that's what they're supposed to do, if they can all drive one behind
another at a constant speed without crashing or creating traffic jams. But
more importantly, if you can be doing work while your car is driving itself
then your effective commute is zero. And if your car can park itself in the
suburbs, then that creates yet more space in the city that can be used to
create housing. Self-driving cars, if they actually work, should radically
reduce housing costs -- both by making formerly unlivable places suitable for
residential buildings, and by freeing up significant amounts of land.

~~~
jacques_chester
My point being that they don't make other cars vanish and they certainly don't
make human-driven cars vanish in any sensible timeframe.

On a person-kilometre-minute basis, cars are _absurdly_ inefficient.
Stupendously so.

A typical subway train typically runs to about 157 metres. A 2018 Camry runs
to about 5 metres. That gives about 31 car lengths for the subway car.

Assume that _every_ Camry is fully loaded with 5 passengers. That's 155
people. In the ideal condition, driving bumper-to-bumper with no other cars,
155 people in 157 metres -- about a person per linear metre.

Here's the fun bit: the passenger capacity of an R142A carriage is _176_.

Not the whole train.

 _One subway car_.

One subway car, approximately 16 metres long, holds more people than an entire
train's length of self-driving Camrys driving with zero tolerance.

Now add the fact that the trains have dedicated rights of way and note that
even with the profound multi-decadal mess made of the MTA you simply cannot
replace the subway with any other mode of transportation, not now, not ever.
Self-driving cars don't repeal the laws of physics and they don't override
Little's Law either.

~~~
CamperBob2
Yes, rail offers unparalleled efficiency at transporting people from one place
where they don't want to be to another place where they don't want to be.

~~~
sjwright
That's pedantic nonsense. If I took that argument to its logical conclusion,
I'd point out that I also don't want to be in my garage or the city car park.

~~~
fiter
This thread is discussing self driving cars which would presumably not have
either of those problems.

~~~
sjwright
I think you missed the point.

------
intsunny
Why would NYS/NYC need to subsidize Amazon in NYC?

If NYC is indeed confirmed, then rents for Queens are going to be absolutely
fucked.

While Astoria is high, Sunnyside, Woodside, and Jackson Heights will likely
see never-seen-before rent increases.

This would be greatly concerning because Eastern Asians from Flushing are
already moving west towards Manhattan and are already encroaching on Hispanic
minorities in Elmhurst and Corona.

(Source: was native NYCer for 24 years)

~~~
traek
> This would be greatly concerning because Eastern Asians from Flushing are
> already moving west towards Manhattan and are already encroaching on
> Hispanic minorities in Elmhurst and Corona.

Why is it better for Hispanic people to live in an area than Eastern Asian
people?

~~~
dbmikus
I think the grandparent post is saying that Asians in Flushings are more
likely to own their property and then it gets rented out inside the ethnic
group moreso than outside the group. So Hispanics etcetera will be squeezed
between that and rising prices from HQ2.

I don't know how much of these are true, but I've heard anecdotes/stereotypes
like this a few times in New York. Just haven't seen (or looked for) any
confirmed studies about it.

~~~
sotojuan
I can't speak for other areas of the country, but NYC native Asian Americans
are notoriously obsessed with and very adept at purchasing property. Whether
it's pooling money among friends, having very low living costs, or even
helping their sons and daughters with a down payment, it's clear it's very
important for the culture in a way it's not for other minorities or even white
people.

~~~
thaumasiotes
> I can't speak for other areas of the country, but NYC native Asian Americans
> are notoriously obsessed with and very adept at purchasing property.

I can speak for other areas. To a first and second approximation, all Chinese,
regardless of what country they live in, believe very strongly in owning
property and will go to what you might consider ridiculous lengths to do so.

There's a reason the rhetorical enemy of Maoism was the "landlord".

------
specialp
I really hope Cuomo didn't give Amazon huge tax breaks for coming to NY.
Frankly Amazon needs NYC more than we need them. NYC is a boom town at the
moment with a lot of jobs and skilled professionals moving in. Since 2010 the
population has grown by 375k people which is about 40% the population of San
Fransisco.

There are 20 million people in the NY Metro area, and NYC is a true global
city. I know it will be some political coup for Cuomo who has sights on
national office bringing Amazon here, but to win the Willy Wonka like contest
by giving Amazon a lot of freebies is disapointing.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
Unless he's caught tossing puppies into a wood chipper he will carry the NYC
area and it won't matter what the rest of the state thinks. Cumo doesn't need
to give anyone tax breaks.

------
unethical_ban
It's humorous how willing they are to build HQ2/3 in areas already with high
rent and income. They probably have the money and the will to create a new
city and public transit system out of a pliable town. Why not do that?

It's not so simple and I'm not quite so naive... but it would be interesting
if high paying jobs went to places with decent weather and reasonable land
prices.

~~~
outside1234
Talent doesn't want to work in the middle of nowhere.

I wish it did, but it doesn't.

~~~
wpietri
This isn't an unreasonable generalization. But a) there's plenty of talent
that wants to live somewhere other than an urban core, and b) if Amazon opens
an HQ in a place, that place will become a somewhere, and c) Amazon is at the
scale that they can afford to take raw talent and train it up.

Personally, I find Amazon's decision disappointing, and I regret getting
caught up in the hype. I was hoping that they'd do something bold and
interesting, not open a couple of satellite offices in obvious places.

~~~
niftich
More on this point, there were a number of perfectly reasonable second tier
cities in their 'final 20' shortlist already, which were lagging behind first
tier cities only in transit, or, for all we know, in the amount of incentives
they were willing to throw at Amazon's feet.

Raleigh/Durham would have made for a fine urban or suburban campus and
would've capitalized on the presence of tech talent already drawn to the area;
Austin would have been another obvious choice for pre-existing tech talent. A
pick like Nashville or Columbus would have been _bold_ , picking a rising star
midsize metro with diverse strengths and no strong background in tech and
lifting it further. Instead, it's looking to be NYC and DC. Much ado about
nothing.

~~~
Apocryphon
It's amazing. All of those months of speculation about what secondary city or
emerging tech hub will become the next Austin, _gone_ just like that, in favor
of Amazon deciding to set up shop in the super-obvious capitals of finance and
government.

~~~
bilbo0s
Guys, Amazon is not a charity.

They aren't looking to build up a city. It's a foolish business decision to
put something with the needs of HQ2 in a place with no transit. Sure, you can
build transit, but A - it's expensive, and B - it's not your job or expertise.

Instead of lamenting the jobs they missed out on with HQ2, a forward thinking
city would get to work building out its transit system. Many cities are doing
just that. Houston for instance.

If places like Columbus or Nashville have a better strategy than building
attractive infrastructure for competing with places like Houston and NYC for
such jobs, then let them pursue that strategy. The market will settle the
issue in the end.

~~~
Apocryphon
You're ascribing moral judgment to my post. I'm not criticizing for taking
potential jobs away from a secondary city. Playing host to an HQ2 is both a
big boon and a great curse; witness all the articles about Amazon's impact on
prospective cities' real estate markets and traffic. But my specific criticism
is in questioning why did Bezos put on this charade to evaluate cities
throughout North America, if he was just going to choose the obvious choices?
The only more unimaginative city than NYC and Washington DC, would be to build
HQ2 in the Bay Area itself.

Was this all a ploy to test how far local governments be willing to bend over
for Amazon? A PR spectacle to show how important and influential Amazon is to
warrant that kind of kowtowing from mayors and governors? If you're going to
claim that Amazon earnestly pursued the search for HQ2, only to decide that
NYC and D.C. were the best choices at the end, then their strategists must
have done a poor job in not figuring that out before the city talent show.

And for us HN commentators: these picks are just _boring_. So much for
innovation, imagination, and daring. Ho-hum.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
_So much for innovation, imagination, and daring._

Maybe you shouldn't have ascribed those qualities to Amazon's search for a new
HQ?

~~~
Apocryphon
Maybe they shouldn't have framed the contest as finding "a city that is
excited to work with us and where our customers, employees, and the community
can all benefit", but rather a purely financial and strategic decision that
would take their analysts less than a day to wrap up.

~~~
ryanwaggoner
None of those things have anything to do with "innovation, imagination, and
daring".

~~~
Apocryphon
Maybe it's too much to ask a company to embody its professed values in every
aspect of its operations.

------
adrianmonk
If true, I wonder if they did this so that their ability to play one city off
the other doesn't have to come to a close when they make the announcement. Or
ever.

Every year or so, you can call them up and say:

"Hey NY, we're thinking of expanding in VA, but maybe you could convince us
otherwise."

"Hey VA, we're thinking of expanding in NY, but maybe you could convince us
otherwise."

~~~
umanwizard
Why would NYC give a shit? Amazon represents a quite small amount of economic
activity relative to NYC.

~~~
dunpeal
It's not even an entire office, just a small project representing a few
hundred jobs at most.

------
josephmosby
It will be far more interesting to see the impacts on Queens versus Crystal
City, IMHO.

Crystal City already has a strong tech presence - it's government, not
industry, but still - no shortage of technology around. 25K new workers is
about a second Pentagon in the area, but nothing more than that. Office rental
rate pressure will slightly go up, but Amazon's a drop in the bucket compared
to federal government buying power for office space.

Queens, though, is a dramatic change to the general landscape of that area. I
can't even imagine an Amazon-style campus in the middle of Jamaica.

~~~
flavor8
Arlington has been running a fairly high office vacancy rate for a long time.
Amazon moving in doesn't really require new construction.

[https://data.arlingtonva.us/dataviews/227253/vacancy-
rates/](https://data.arlingtonva.us/dataviews/227253/vacancy-rates/)

------
mabbo
As an Amazon employee, I will only believe it when Jeff says it's so.

"Sources" that aren't specified or provide any evidence tend to have a poor
track record.

------
austincheney
> Amazon declined to comment on whether it had made any final decisions.

Speculation. Amazon is also talking heavily with Dallas according to CNN.

[https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/tech/amazon-
hq2-update/index....](https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/tech/amazon-
hq2-update/index.html)

------
bsvalley
I hate when people use the word bubble but I think we finally have a real
bubble here. Google opening a new campus in San Jose, Amazon in NYC. I mean,
how expensive can it be to live in one of these already expensive places?
We’re at a breaking point where salaries offered by tech giants aren’t keeping
up with the price of real estate. We’re talking engineers, etc. not even able
to afford a home. Now if you don’t work for a google or an amazon etc. How do
you survive in these places? We need stores, transportation, plumbers,
gardners etc.

I see a bubble here. It’s gonna get ugly soon.

~~~
bane
NYC is surprisingly affordable if you can make the mental gymnastics that NYC
!= Manhattan.

You can get single family homes within city limits for $450-$750k. If you
can't figure out how to afford a home like that on a six figure salary (let
alone with 2 income earners in family situations), what you probably really
need is a financial adviser. If you don't want to live in the city, Jersey
City is swimming in sub-million dollars single family homes.

The D.C. area is actually more expensive in many cases, but you can haul out
to a suburb 30 miles away and get more affordable housing on an engineer's
salary and metro/commuter train in. It's not the end of the world.

Your commute may not be a 10 minute walk door-to-door, but...well...welcome to
living in a large U.S. city where the jobs are.

The problem these companies are facing is availability of qualified staff.
It'll take years to build out the facilities, and cheap places just will never
attract the talent pool.

~~~
eganist
> The D.C. area [...] haul out to a suburb 30 miles away [...] and
> metro/commuter train in.

That might as well be the end of the world. The commute from that distance can
easily crack two hours; I'd have a shorter commute driving from DC to
literally the capital of the confederacy (105 miles, 1.7 hours reverse
commute) than I'd have driving from Dumfries, VA into DC (30 miles, 2+ hours
traffic).

Source: lived/ing inside the beltway for decades until present. Also, I've
made that DC-RVA drive more times than I'd care to admit, and it was less
self-harm-inducing than my standard commute from _inside the beltway_ into DC
itself.

~~~
wyclif
And it's been this way for a long time. In the mid-1990's I lived in Vienna,
VA and my office was in Tyson's Corner just 1.5 miles away. Yet there was no
way I could eat lunch at home and drive back to the office within an hour, and
it was actually faster to _walk_ to work than drive. The only bright side to
that situation was that I lived a few blocks from the Orange Line (at Dunn
Loring).

In 2020, would I want to be living in Vienna or Chantilly and commuting to
Crystal City? No way.

------
jacques_chester
The cynic in me suspects that these articles are last-minute PR plants
intended to place negotiating pressure on one or both for final concessions.

~~~
nemo44x
NYC should never negotiate. If you want to be in NYC then pay full price.
There’s no shortage of demand here. The benefits of being here are manifold in
and of itself.

------
njarboe
So three headquarters? My speculation on why these two cities were chosen
would be that they are the two cities that Bezos wants to spend the most time
in. Most business headquarter moves to a new city are because the CEO wants to
live at the new location [citation needed]. At least in this case people at
the old HQ can stay put and Bezos is the largest stockholder in the company,
not just the top manager.

~~~
jacques_chester
Bezos is probably very careful about how much time he spends in NYC. Both the
State and the City charge income tax based on their definitions residence.
They don't mess around, either.

~~~
discodave
Did you used to frequent r/weightlifting?

Moving on..

Bezos has basically no income from Amazon. He owns a bunch of shares, some of
which he sells for a capital gain. Amazon doesn't pay dividends. He may have
some income from other investments.

In his case, the tax man can only come when he sells stock, of which he only
sells a ~1 billion USD per year.

~~~
jacques_chester
> _Did you used to frequent r /weightlifting?_

I did, a long time ago. I became tired of arguing with PED apologists and
anyway, injury has driven me out of the sport.

> _In his case, the tax man can only come when he sells stock, of which he
> only sells a ~1 billion USD per year._

And they will, if he spends enough time here. He'll need to increase his sale
to cover the difference.

~~~
discodave
> injury has driven me out of the sport Me too.

> I became tired of arguing with PED apologists

It is a tiring debate.

------
thebradbain
Call me skeptical but: two days after a flurry of articles about how NYC,
Crystal City, AND Dallas are in late stage negotiations, NYT doesn’t mention
Dallas at all?

Property developers of earmarked properties in Dallas, per WSJ, have also
taken their potential Amazon properties off the market as have developers in
Crystal City. Yet NYT makes no mention of such a move in Dallas. Why?

~~~
why_only_15
The basis of this article comes from "people familiar with the decision-making
process", so probably those people said NYC + Crystal City and not Dallas.

------
klaudius
Why don't they try remote work? Virtual HQ2? It would be cheaper and give them
access to better talent.

~~~
symplee
Who's going to subsidize that?

~~~
nemo44x
Vermont is starting a program where they will pay you to move there and work
for an out of state company remotely.

To the companies benefit you can pay employees substantively less outside
major cities.

~~~
symplee
Do you need to have the remote job first? If so, the remote salary would
probably have already been calibrated. Still interesting though.

~~~
nemo44x
I’m not sure. I think they have a set number of grants and you have to come as
a new Vermont resident. First come first serve.

I think the idea is to attract folks from major Eastern cities that lust for
the country side. It is a gorgeous state....but winter.

------
nataz
As someone who owns a home in a beautiful quite neighborhood less than a mile
from one of those locations I can’t figue out if I really like this news or
it’s terrible.

On the downside many things that I like will get worse with the influx of
people. On the plus side, my house is probably worth significantly more money
as an investment.

Maybe I should buy the house for sale down the street...

------
Blackthorn
Gah, Queens? I was hoping they'd come a bit further upstate (like where IBM
is/was in Poughkeepsie).

~~~
dunpeal
Oh, totally. Every young engineer's dream is to live in Poughkeepsie!

~~~
Blackthorn
I'm a young engineer, I live up there. It's a very pleasant area to live out
your life. Not everyone wants the pace of a big city.

~~~
dunpeal
How's the dating scene, if you don't mind my asking?

~~~
Blackthorn
I wouldn't really know. I married my college sweetheart.

~~~
dunpeal
Then it makes sense. For engineers with families, a quiet little town where
you can buy a house and the crime is low sounds pretty good.

As a young, single engineer, I won't move there no matter how much they pay
me.

~~~
Blackthorn
I didn't say that the dating scene was bad. I said that I didn't know what it
was like. Realistically, it's probably a lot better than Silicon Valley.

~~~
dunpeal
But nowhere near as good as a decent city like LA.

~~~
Blackthorn
If you believed you already knew the answer, why did you ask?

------
mey
NYC, FinTech VA, Defense

~~~
m_ke
NYC also has ad tech, commerce and fashion.

~~~
tzs
NYC is also big in film and television, which could interest Amazon.

------
thwy12321
Curious what this is going to do to engineering salaries in NYC.

------
mtanski
Not a terrible idea to build two campuses along the Accela line. There
probably are other opportunities like this for bigger metro areas along the
Accela corridor.

------
Nelkins
Well, if there was any hope of me being able to afford an apartment in NYC in
the next few years, that hope is now extinguished.

Let the wildly speculative house buying begin!

~~~
bradleyjg
25k people in nyc, even very well paid, is a drop in the bucket. It’ll have a
big impact in LIC. Astoria, Greenpoint, and Sunnyside will also be impacted.
But beyond that the effect will fall off rather steeply.

~~~
rajeshpant
You are missing a point. every 1 regular job creates 3 non-regular jobs in the
market. New businesses like restaurants, coffee shops etc will created which
will boost local economy.

~~~
wpietri
I would like to see the math on that. The proportion seems impossible to me.

~~~
hyperpape
It’s debated, of course:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_multiplier_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_multiplier_effect)

------
mud_dauber
My Austin commute thanks you, Mr. Bezos.

~~~
classybull
I'm torn. In my heart, I absolutely did not want Amazon here due to how it
would obliterate any shred of culture we have left, decimate anyone who didn't
work in tech, and paralyze the city's traffic completely.

On the other hand, as a developer and a home owner, it would have been amazing
for my pocket book.

------
robertsd247
Does anyone think this "search" was even real? I think this was decided long
before the "search" was announced.

------
arrty88
NYC and Queens especially doesn't need any more traffic.

------
hooloovoo_zoo
Why build two new locations right next to each other?

~~~
wpietri
Per Google Maps, the locations are a 4- to 5-hour drive apart. That's about
the distance from Amsterdam to Frankfurt.

~~~
hooloovoo_zoo
True, but they're also two cities that are 200 miles apart in a country that
is 2500+ miles wide.

~~~
jacques_chester
More people live in those 200 miles than live in Australia, a country of
comparable size to the US.

In fact almost as many people live in the tristate area as live in Australia.
Brooklyn alone would be Australia's second largest city in a fraction of the
area of Melbourne.

~~~
hooloovoo_zoo
Judging by the number of downvotes I'm receiving in this chain, people have
very strong opinions (and interesting reference points) on what 'right next to
each other' means. However, since karma is free, I'll point out that the
population of Australia is less than that of many well-separated regions of
the U.S., which is unsurprising given that its total population is 1/13th of
the U.S.'s.

