
The World Health Organization calls for the decriminalisation of drug use - oskarth
http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/world-health-organization-calls-decriminalisation-drug-use
======
x1798DE
As much as I don't want to make the best the enemy of the good, I'm really
skeptical of "decriminalization". Yeah, you won't get sent to jail for it, but
if you don't make it _legal_ , you are still dealing in a black market
commodity. That means that you'll still have criminals with no access to the
legal system supplying the stuff, so you won't see the same reduction in drug-
related violence and you won't see quality control.

With heroin at least, the "bad batches" that kill people (and have killed a
number of my family members and people in my extended social circle) tend to
be the ones that are purer - people know that they usually need 1 bag to get
high, then suddenly there's twice as much heroin in a given bag because the
batch is purer than they expected and it causes a bunch of people to OD. This
problem would be solved if it were legal and you could buy it in a store from
a person who you could _sue_ if they caused your wrongful death, but
decriminalizing heroin wouldn't do anything for that.

Furthermore, this doesn't reduce the incentive that Mexican drug gangs have
for killing _thousands_ of people to secure their territory along the border,
because you'd still need to produce the drugs somewhere and smuggle them into
rich countries like the US.

Certainly it'd be nice if in addition to all these other horrible problems we
also didn't spend a ton of money throwing people in jail for using drugs, but
honestly I don't see decriminalization as anything more than a stepping stone
on the way to full legalization of all drugs.

~~~
Blahah
_> you could buy it in a store from a person who you could sue if they caused
your wrongful death_

It's vanishingly rare than anyone is capable of suing after they've died.

(I agree with you on everything else).

~~~
taejo
But you're still capable of being sued after you've killed someone.

------
powertower
The biggest barrier to legalizing drugs are the millions of jobs that are
created for, solely exist for, and are wholly dedicated to: fighting drugs,
drug related crimes, and dealing with drug offenders (police, private prisons,
etc).

And the 100s of billions (if not several trillion) of dollars that get
consumed every year by that industry.

They will fight tooth and nail to prevent any type of drug legalization.

We've already seen how powerful the private prison industry is and how much
lobbying power they have.

~~~
melling
If that were the case, we wouldn't be on our way to legalizing marijuana. I'm
sure it feels really great to rage against the "system" but it doesn't seem
right in this case.

~~~
oldmanjay
It's important to note the in the strictest sense, marijuana is still 100%
illegal everywhere in the United States. The federal gov't is currently taking
a watch-and-wait stance, but that can change in a single election.

~~~
chc
Not exactly. There is a lot of movement in the direction of rescheduling
marijuana, which would have some pretty lasting effects.

------
tokenadult
In the latest news from the United States, "Drug Sentencing Guidelines Reduced
For Current Prisoners," we learn that the United States Sentencing Commission,
a federal agency, voted on Friday to reduce terms for convicted drug offenders
already in prison.[1] The state jurisdiction I live in already very rarely
imprisons anyone for a drug offense unless the offense involves a large degree
of dealing combined with other criminal offenses. Possession offenses are
still in the statute books, but they are mostly dealt with here by diversion
to drug treatment programs.

The great majority of persons in the United States who are in prison are in
prison for offenses other than drug offenses. States that have sentencing
commissions (mine was the first) by state policy mostly only imprison repeat
offenders who are convicted of serious (mostly violent) crimes, not mere drug
possession.[2]

[1] [http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-
way/2014/07/18/332619083/dru...](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-
way/2014/07/18/332619083/drug-sentencing-guidelines-reduced-for-current-
prisoners)

[http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-drug-
sentences...](http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-drug-sentences-
reduced-20140718-story.html)

[2] [http://mn.gov/sentencing-
guidelines/images/2013%2520Guidelin...](http://mn.gov/sentencing-
guidelines/images/2013%2520Guidelines.pdf)

~~~
gjm11
> _The great majority of persons in the United States who are in prison are in
> prison for offenses other than drug offenses._

I had a quick look for information about this. The first source I found
(chosen to avoid introducing bias through cherry-picking) was this one:
[http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p11.pdf](http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p11.pdf)
and it says: "Nearly half (48%) of inmates in federal prison were serving time
for drug offenses in 2011".

So it turns out that both this and _tokenadult_ 's statement are correct --
because the great majority of prisoners in the US are state prisoners rather
than federal ones. About 17% of state prisoners are doing time for drug
offences.

~~~
tptacek
In Illinois, a plurality of offenders are in prison for domestic violence.

------
k-mcgrady
Nobody will listen. A few years ago one of the UK's top advisors on drugs
objected to the governments reclassification of cannabis from a class b to a
class c drug. He was fired.[0] Governments don't care. They aren't there to do
what's best for their citizens. They should be, but they aren't.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt#Dismissal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt#Dismissal)

~~~
contingencies
Maybe the UK and US are the worst offenders. Australia and New Zealand are
very much more open, I suppose Canada is too. Outside of the west, I think
that for instance China will listen. They've been involving foreign groups in
their drug rehabilitation process reform for some years now.

~~~
happyscrappy
The US has legalized marijuana in a few states and decriminalized it in half
of the states. I guess you hadn't heard.

~~~
narag
The annoying thing is that other governments are pressured _by the USA_ to
keep criminalizing drugs, while the USA itself is decriminalizing it state by
state.

~~~
happyscrappy
The states are in direct contravention of Federal laws. This will have to be
dealt with eventually but the Feds are in no hurry because it is a losing case
for them.

~~~
eli
Be very interesting to see what Congress ends up doing with DC, which recently
decriminalized marijuana and has full legalization on the ballot for November.
I don't think they'll ignore it, so the question is will they simply undo it
or prevent the ballots from being counted (which they have the unique ability
to do in DC) or whether this will prompt an actual debate on the role of the
federal government in drug policy.

------
rayiner
This is great, and will lend legitimacy to those pushing for legalization
efforts. That said, I'm disappointed to read the, predictable, refrain about
drug enforcement and for profit prisons. This is a canard. See:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7851672](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7851672).

I don't know what other peoples' experience was, but I grew up in the 1990's
in an area that was pretty middle of the road politically. Throughout
elementary school, doing drugs was portrayed as something on a par with drunk
driving, and got even more attention from parent groups and school
administrators. In 1991, 78% of the population thought marijuana should be
illegal: [http://www.people-press.org/2013/04/04/majority-now-
supports...](http://www.people-press.org/2013/04/04/majority-now-supports-
legalizing-marijuana). Only last year did the opinion shift in favor of
legalization, and even today a substantial minority (45%) of people think
marijuana should be illegal, and probably a majority of actual voters, who
skew older and more conservative, feel that way.

Obviously police unions and the like will raise barriers to legalization. But
let's not shirk the blame here: we created the drug war, or depending on your
age, our parents did.

~~~
wprl
While your conclusion is true, for-profit prison systems are a clear conflict
of interest and certainly influence media and lobbying. Law enforcement has
spread its fair share of misinformation and unnecessary violence, as well.

~~~
rayiner
I think for profit prisons are very bad. I'm not a fan of public unions of any
sort either. But laying the blame on them is just a cop-out. These policies
were implemented with overehelming public support at a time when the for-
profit prison industry was essentially non-existent. The for profit prison
lobby is opportunist: taking advantage of the policy. They didn't create it.

~~~
wprl
It's not a cop out. There are many parties which share blame: the Public for
its fearful ignorance and fear, the prisons for profiteering and massive media
and lobbying influence, law enforcement for enforcing the "lex malla" of drug
policy with violence, various government organizations of various
nationalities (including to a large degree the US) for using hard drugs as a
tool to manipulate political, social, and economic situations, assassinations,
cartels and gangs that sell drugs to fund human trafficking and murder, the
list goes on…

There's a lot of blame to go around. The prisons share a whole lot of it.

~~~
rayiner
Apportioning the blame properly is crucial to understanding the significance
of this call from the WHO. The vast majority of responses to this article
focus on for profit prisons, police lobbying, and how the government doesn't
do what the people want. If these are the driving forces behind the drug war,
then a WHO recommendation is going to have little effect. However, the
emprical evidence shows that the drug war arose not from for profit prison
lobbying, an industry that really didn't exist when the phrase was coined, but
on the back of vast public support. Moreover, the evidence also shows
decriminalization policies gaining ground as public opinion shifts.

The bottom line is that the thesis underlying most of the comments in this
thread is wrong. For profit prisons, police unions, etc, are not the biggest
roadblocks to legalization. They're opportunists, but the backbone of the drug
war is massive support from soccer moms and dads, the reliable voters that
created the drug war in the first place. And if the medical community starts
chipping away at them, change will follow, regardless of what the prison
lobbey wants.

~~~
wprl
The manner in which international drug prohibition began and the manners in
which it is sustained are not equivalent. To say public opinion is the most
important aspect is reductive.

------
kayman
A pretty bold statement that will be used as a reference in the crusade
against the war on drugs. The trend indicates this already. Colorado,
California et al has already taken a step in this direction with legalization
of marijuana. Problem is, there is a generation who grew up with being taught
the opposite which will take some time to change their minds.

~~~
ac29
California didn't legalize marijuana (in fact it was voted against in 2010).
The 2 US states are Colorado and Washington. Many other states have
decriminalized or provide medical access, though:
[http://norml.org/states](http://norml.org/states)

------
joewallin
We need to decriminalize almost everything. We have too many criminal laws.
Too many laws.

------
dan_bk
But how are we going to fill the (corporate) prisons then? These wards have
families to feed, too!

~~~
DanBC
How many US prisoners are in corporate prisons?

~~~
calibraxis
In the US:
([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison#In_the_United_St...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison#In_the_United_States))

 _" The trend toward privately operated correctional facilities has continued
with 85,604 adults (3.7% of the total US prison population) now housed in 107
privately operated prisons as of 2011[13] Companies operating such facilities
include the Corrections Corporation of America, the GEO Group, Inc. (formerly
known as Wackenhut Securities), and Community Education Centers. In the past
two decades CCA has seen its profits increase by more than 500 percent.[14]
The prison industry as a whole took in over $5 billion in revenue in
2011.[15]_

 _" According to journalist Matt Taibbi, Wall Street banks took notice of this
big influx of cash, and are now some of the prison industry's biggest
investors. Wells Fargo has around 100 million invested in GEO Group and 6
million in CCA. Other major investors include Bank of America, Fidelity
Investments, General Electric and The Vanguard Group. CCA's share price went
from a dollar in 2000 to $34.34 in 2013.[15]"_

Distinctions between corporations and government aside (their interests are
the same, to a first approximation; and of course corporations are government-
created entities)... the "drug war" is an effective pretext for social
control, particularly in the top jailer of its own people: the US. Puts
certain demographics in a horrific box with no freedom.

~~~
eric_bullington
ProPublica puts the percentage of inmates in private facilities at around 8%
in 2010. The 3.7% figure appears to come from a cited academic work that I
can't verify, so I'm not sure how much stock I'd put in that figure.
ProPublica tends to put out pretty reliable stats.

More concerning than the total percentage is the rate at which this number is
increasing (~40% per year).

