
U.S. Defense Budget May Help Fund “Hacking for Defense” Classes at Universities - teklaperry
http://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from-the-valley/at-work/education/us-defense-budget-may-help-fund-university-hacking-for-defense-classes
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stenlix
Those are my classmates! I took the Hacking for Defense class with them this
past Spring at Stanford. I found that fundamentally the class trains students
to apply the iterative, quick-moving, need-based approach to product
development often found in startups to military problems that have
traditionally had lots of bureaucratic overhead. We were exposed to a ton of
different people through our interviews and were constantly asked to create
and improve our minimum viable product as we learned more about our problem
space. Overall, I would highly recommend the class.

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ingrand
Israel already does this, both offense and defense. They have university
initiatives that teach "cyber" (I hate that term).

It would probably be difficult to get DoD brass to care about this. They're
used to their defense products being physical items (warheads, tanks, drones,
etc) that are harder to steal. Sure, you can steal the schematics and such,
but then you can track purchases of restricted components and guess who's
building what.

With software, the schematic/code _is_ the weapon. You don't really have to
put it together, but perhaps do some poking around to understand it. This is
why it's so devastating when the NSA's arsenal gets scooped up by foreign
belligerents.

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kaybe
May I interest you in some cyber?

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY6KkRsS26M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY6KkRsS26M)

(better if you understand German)

I think we are in the process of re-appropriating the word actually. One of my
best purchases this year was a roll of yellow tape with 'cyber' printed in
black. It presumably provides great cyber defense if one covers a computer
with it. And I think that is fantastic social commentary on the word.

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philanthropist
Still to be charged at the full rate to the student, of course. This is just
to get them started.

I have to say, out of all the things the DoD pays for with its massive budget,
things like paying the NFL to fly F16s over stadiums, or TV ads, or sponsoring
college courses are what really grinds my gears.

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KekDemaga
>things like paying the NFL to fly F16s over stadiums

Actually those are training flights that pilots volunteer to move to coincide
with the event. The net cost to the tax payer is zero as those flights would
of simply happened on another day. If you have an event you can request a fly
over yourself.

[http://www.airshows.pa.hq.af.mil/PublicSite/Index.cfm?fwa=ho...](http://www.airshows.pa.hq.af.mil/PublicSite/Index.cfm?fwa=home)

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conceptpad
Important info from Steve Blank on Hacking for Defense here:
[https://steveblank.com/category/hacking-for-
defense/](https://steveblank.com/category/hacking-for-defense/)

Steve's dedication to direct public service is impressive, and sets a high bar
for other Silicon Valley leaders to reach.

~~~
iiilllililiiiiI
Site crashed on mobile

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metaphor
What's the relevance of watered down SEAL training to H4D?

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stenlix
A big theme in the class was the importance of understanding the real
experiences of potential beneficiaries. The specific team in the picture
wanted to understand what it was like to be in SEAL training since their
project specifically dealt with that problem area.

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aggieben
This is very old news. We've been doing this in the US for _at least_ 15
years.

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sna1l
The first thing I thought of when I read "Hacking for Defense" was Defense
against the Dark Arts from Harry Potter :)

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okreallywtf
Glad I wasn't the only one.

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smnrchrds
I second this.

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it_learnses
This is something we desperately need in the western world in order to combat
Chinese hacking/spying offensive.

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vkou
This is something we need to combat domestic hacking/spying.

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swayvil
this could be you

[http://dcsymbols.com/movies/emblem.jpg](http://dcsymbols.com/movies/emblem.jpg)

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mtgx
Hacking for defense? Is that like how the Department of Defense is now more
like the Department of War? Will "preemptive hacking" happen a lot, too?

EDIT: Also, this sounds a lot like propaganda to me:

"Don't worry - just because we hack into other nations, doesn't mean we are
the bad guys. We're the good guys hacking for our preemptive defense!"

The US gov has had a hard time trying to lure talent for the NSA and such
after the Snowden leaks (and for good reason, people finally learned the truth
about what they were actually doing), so now they're trying to turn this on
its head and trick young people who are already interested in hacking to work
for the government "for a good purpose". And then they can pick the really
good ones and try to convince them to actually do some of the more obviously
nasty and morally questionable stuff.

I can't say it's a _terrible plan_ , but to me the motives seem quite
obviously. For the more impressionable 18 year olds, perhaps they won't be,
unfortunately.

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stenlix
I'd like to politely disagree. I took the Hacking for Defense class at my
school and had a completely different experience from the one you worry about.
I think the most important misunderstanding to clear up is that the hacking in
the class is not about hacking in the NSA/cybersecurity sense but rather the
process of building something. Just like at a hackathon, students aren't all
trying to hack the school's wifi etc., this class is about using a different
approach to tackling military problems.

I've attached a link to our class website which contains a superset of the
problems that my classmates and I tackled throughout the quarter. Hopefully
you'll find it informative.

Class website:
[http://hacking4defense.stanford.edu/](http://hacking4defense.stanford.edu/)

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3131s
> _this class is about using a different approach to tackling military
> problems._

The real problem is the amount of money and human life that are squandered on
perceived "military problems" in the US. There are plenty of other hackathons
to go to, IMO attending these events and accepting their material support is
legitimizing US Department of Defense sponsored terrorism.

