
Colombia’s Plan to Welcome Millions of Venezuelan Migrants - curtis
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/01/colombia-welcomes-millions-venezuelans-maduro-guaido/581647/
======
siffland
I applaud Colombia for this. I really hope international pressure does its job
and gets Venezuela back on track. I understand Russian and China wanting to
secure their investments in the country, but the cost is taking its toll. I
dont know how someone like Maduro can really live with himself and his
lifestyle when so many are suffering.I also have read that U.S. sanctions are
to blame, i dont know if this is true or just government corruption.

I wish the US would do a fast track for Venezuelan migrants, or at least i
hope we provide aide to Colombia to help with expenses.

And if Argentina is helping too they get massive kudos as well.

~~~
guessmyname
> _I applaud Columbia for this […]_

> _[…] i hope we provide aide to Columbia to help with expenses_

Just so you know, the English spelling is “Colombia” _(O instead of U)_ [1].

If you say “Columbia” _(U instead of O)_ you are talking about the historical
female personification of the United States of America, and a poetic name for
the Americas [2]. I don’t know why people make this mistake so many times,
even looking at this list [3] I cannot find any reference to “Columbia” as the
name for the country.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombia)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(name)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_\(name\))

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia)

~~~
siffland
Point taken, I have updated my post with the correct spelling.

I am use to typing it that way for the District of Columbia. That is not an
excuse, but that is why it is probably misspelled a lot.

~~~
AlimJaffer
Same here. As someone who lives in British Columbia, I always conflate the
two.

------
coliveira
The US has worked from day one do destabilize any kind of government in
Venezuela, having openly supported coups and now a blockade that is disrupting
oil production, which is the main trading of that country. To say at this
point that the economic and social situation of Venezuela is just the fault of
Venezuelan leaders (whatever their problems might be) is baffling and a plain
lie. The current US government is openly supporting an intervention to control
Venezuelan's oil, so for me it is not a surprise that the people and the army
forces of Venezuela are backing their government, the same way that I see no
surprise that the Iran government receives popular support despite all its
problems. The US and American people should do a mea culpa and stop what they
are doing to destabilize the world.

~~~
javagram
Venezuelan oil production dipped dramatically before any serious US sanctions
were introduced.

The nationalization of the oil industry and replacing professionals with
incompetent cronies was the cause of Venezuela’s current crisis, not something
the US orchestrated.

See [https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2017/05/07/how-
venezuel...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2017/05/07/how-venezuela-
ruined-its-oil-industry/#5477693e7399)

From a couple years ago. I saw a more recent graph somewhere and the problems
have grown even more acute.

~~~
bbatha
OPEC (which Venezuela is a member of) opted to open the taps in 2014 to
counter rising competition from US fracking[1]. The drop in oil price was at
least in part of their own creation!

Additionally, the Venezuelan policy choices since Chavez have significantly
reduced economic diversity and increased reliance on Oil, and the population's
reliance on the state oil companies.[2]

1: [https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/07/opec-
plan-k...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/dec/07/opec-plan-kill-us-
shale-oil-price-down-seven-year-low) 2: (warning pdf)
[https://web.archive.org/web/20131021050303/http://larc.ucalg...](https://web.archive.org/web/20131021050303/http://larc.ucalgary.ca/sites/larc.ucalgary.ca/files/dr._stephen_randall_the_chavez_legacy_march_2013.pdf)

------
x3tm
Describing this as 'radical' (in the actual title of the article!),
'impressive', etc. says more about the current worldview of western
democracies on basic humanitarian solidarity than it says about Colombia.

~~~
deogeo
Isn't free travel within the EU just as 'radical'? And haven't western
democracies already accepted many millions of migrants? The US alone accepts
one million immigrants _per year_.

~~~
x3tm
1\. Refugees are not migrants. 2. A few thousands refugees almost broke Europe
(excluding Germany and Sweden). Extreme right on the rise pretty much
everywhere (including Germany and Sweden). And we're talking about the richest
countries in the World. Compare that with Colombia, Jordan, Lebanon to name
but 3 countries.

> The US alone accepts one million immigrants per year.

"of whom about 600,000 are Change of Status who already are in the U.S".
However, it's not about immigration.

How many Syrian/Libyan/Afghan/Venezuelan/Iraqi _refugees_ did the US take in
the last 5 years? (You've probably noticed that the examples I cited are not
random).

~~~
deogeo
'A few thousand refugees' is an interesting way of putting it. "From July 2015
to May 2016, more than 1 million people applied for asylum in Europe.":
[http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/15/immigrant-
sh...](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/15/immigrant-share-of-
population-jumps-in-some-european-countries/)

This is all on top of an already significant immigrant population - in Germany
alone there are 19.3 million people with immigrant background:
[https://www.dw.com/en/german-population-with-immigrant-
backg...](https://www.dw.com/en/german-population-with-immigrant-background-
reaches-new-peak-in-2017/a-44906046)

~~~
x3tm
The vast majority of the refugees in Europe are in 2 countries: Germany and
Sweden. Read my comment above. The rest of European countries, including
France and central Europe, essentially reacted by voting for populists
(borderline fascists in some countries).

Your second comment on Germany is totally irrelevant.

And 1 million people for Europe is nothing considering the total population
and wealth of the union. As I write in the comment you ignored: some of the
poorest and smallest countries in the world took in more than a million
refugees and without help.

~~~
deogeo
How is the number of foreigners already in a country irrelevant, when deciding
whether to admit more? From the perspective of the host country, migrants or
refugees makes no difference.

And it's 1 million in one year, but 5 million since 2008. Unlike with
Colombia, almost none are from neighboring countries. That's counting only
refugees, not total immigrants:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis#Asylum...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis#Asylum_applications)

Given these numbers, is there _any_ amount of immigrants the EU/US would have
to accept, to be considered sufficient?

~~~
x3tm
It's a pity but you keep using words like immigrants and foreigners and mixing
concepts and numbers.

There's no point in continuing this exchange.

------
maximente
the government of Argentina has also been very welcoming and expedient with
Venezuelan migrants, turning around documentation for the ability to work in
as quickly as 2 weeks.

here's a decent presentation (english):
[https://robuenosaires.iom.int/sites/default/files/Informes/N...](https://robuenosaires.iom.int/sites/default/files/Informes/National_Migration_Trends_Venezuela_in_the_Americas.pdf)

~~~
Diederich
That's interesting. I looked at the link and didn't see reference to 'ability
work as quickly as 2 weeks'. Did I miss it, or do you have another reference?
Thanks.

~~~
maximente
that part was from friends who have immigrated here, so personal reference,
ha. you may be able to find something if you speak Spanish but i have not
looked. as the other reply said, it may fluctuate somewhat.

~~~
Diederich
Thank you very much.

~~~
maximente
of course! if i can help in any other way, let me know.

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mxuribe
This is absolutely AWESOME! Kudos to Colombia; and any other country that
opens their borders like this!

One of the coolest things that could happen long-term, is that these
Venezuelan migrants start businesses, stay in Colombia, and contribute
positively to the overall economy of Colombia...ultimately making their lives
better, the lives of Colombians better, and showing the xenophobic parts of
the world, that, yes, immigrants into one's country is a good thing!

~~~
x3tm
Agreed, though " [...] showing the xenophobic parts of the world, that, yes,
immigrants into one's country is a good thing!"

We actually don't need a colombian experiment to know this. It's all over the
history books.

