
Skylake’s graphics architecture: Intel is still gunning for dedicated GPUs - tambourine_man
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/08/skylakes-graphics-architecture-intel-is-still-gunning-for-dedicated-gpus/
======
ashark
Good news for me. Recently, after some reflection on the causes of most of my
frustrations with both laptops and desktops over the last decade or so, I've
decided to give up on AMD and Nvidia for now. #1 source of all frustrations,
hardware-wise. I'd rather put up with being a bit out of date on gaming than
keep messing with them. Cheaper that way, too. And it's not like AMD's
competitive anymore[1] so I'm going to be buying Intel anyway.

Dedicated graphics cards: awful under Windows, even worse under Linux,
seemingly the cause of all the worst problems in laptops (even Apple). Intel
graphics it is, for lack of another option that doesn't suck.

[1] :-(

~~~
ricket
I don't know why a non-gamer would bother with an AMD/NVIDIA graphics card.
Even a developer. If the most graphically intensive thing you do is watch
YouTube videos or Netflix, use the Intel integrated video. It's plenty good
for those things. I totally agree with you there.

But on the flip side, as a gamer, I couldn't imagine giving up my discrete
graphics cards on my gaming desktop. How many years back and how low
resolution and graphics settings do you have to go before you find a game
which is playable on an integrated chip? I guess it depends a lot on your
definition of "playable", and your game selection; if GOG is where you
regularly buy games then the integrated chip is probably more than adequate.
Or if you're using a single 800x600 monitor, you're probably ready to run the
latest games on your integrated chip. But otherwise, I can't seriously
recommend anyone play games on an integrated video chip.

Sidenote: I would choose the touchpad as my #1 source of hardware frustration.
Anecdotally, I haven't had much issue with graphics cards, other than one
replaced under warranty.

~~~
PeterOliver
[http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-
core-i7-5775c-i5-5...](http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-
core-i7-5775c-i5-5675c-broadwell,4169-6.html)

44fps in Bioshock Infinite on Medium at 1080p using Iris Pro 6200 graphics.

~~~
cma
Also runs on a console from seven Moore's Law doublings ago, 720p@30. Though
maybe not at the equivalent of medium?

~~~
seanp2k2
Yeah, integrated graphics are still just pretty much good enough for those
interested in playing some games once in a while; anyone expecting serious
gaming performance even on the highest end chip is going to be disappointed.
On the plus side, you can get a ton of firepower for $200 these days, which is
pretty low given inflation and what GPUs cost in the 90s.

------
ilurk
For me the most exciting thing about Skylake GPUs is its support of GVT-g
which will allow the GPU to be shared with up to 4 VMs. This will avoid
dealing altogether with nVidia shenanigans for PCI passthrough.

The disappointing thing is that they will require firmware binary blobs [1].
Although while it opens an attack surface, in principle it should be limited
to the own hardware, so not much of a problem. (There are bigger problems like
Intel ME).

But it's the drivers what matters the most. Which I hope they keep releasing
as open source.

[1] [http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=intel-
skl...](http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=intel-skl-bxt-
firmware-blobs)

------
rayiner
Freed of the bandwidth bottleneck by eDRAM, Iris Pro actually matches lower-
mid range dedicated GPUs: [http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-
core-i7-5775c-i5-5...](http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-
core-i7-5775c-i5-5675c-broadwell,4169-6.html).

~~~
jafingi
I only have Iris Pro in my Retina Macbook Pro from late-2013, and it works so
great! Never missed having a dedicated graphics card, and I can even do casual
gaming in WC3 / CS1.6 / CS:GO / Half-Life 2.

~~~
reiichiroh
Surely we have to set higher goals to aim for with integrated graphics than 12
year old games.

~~~
jafingi
Haha! I totally agree! It's just me stuck in the past. However, I think we've
come long regarding integrated graphics. Running newer games like CS:GO on
high graphics, even though it's not the greatest game regarding graphics, I
think is pretty solid from an integrated GPU.

If just Intel can manage to match 1.5-2 year old Nvidia GPU's from the date of
release, I think it's really good!

------
ZenoArrow
I'm glad Intel are addressing the weakness of integrated graphics, I
personally believe PC gaming has tons of potential to grow, as long as you can
play a good chunk of new games on integrated graphics (not at the highest
resolutions of course, but where it's still possible to play competitively).

As an aside, this won't help me, I'm never buying Intel again, not until they
remove the AMT feature.

~~~
dijit
Never heard of anybody having an issue with AMT/vPro.

you can disable it in the BIOS. It's a CPU feature meant for sysadmins, it's
not like it enables access for intel. (although it could.. in theory).

what's your issue with AMT? (also, not all chips have it).

~~~
ZenoArrow
> "you can disable it in the BIOS. It's a CPU feature meant for sysadmins,
> it's not like it enables access for intel. (although it could.. in theory)."

Call me paranoid if you want, but I think the recent Windows 10 privacy
debacle shows that even if you disable something, doesn't mean it's actually
disabled.

> "what's your issue with AMT? (also, not all chips have it)."

My issue with AMT is one of security. I don't believe there won't be an
exploit in the future, it's not out of the question, some versions of it have
already been exploited:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Techno...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Active_Management_Technology#Known_vulnerabilities_and_exploits)

AMT has full remote access to your computer, beyond OS control or visibility,
and can be utilised even when the computer is in a powered off state (still
needs to be connected to a power source and connected to a network of course).
The risks are huge! I'd rather choose a competitor that doesn't have it.

Which Intel CPUs don't have AMT?

~~~
dijit
well, it's a case by case basis, but my desktop has this processor:
[http://ark.intel.com/products/77780/Intel-
Core-i7-4930K](http://ark.intel.com/products/77780/Intel-Core-i7-4930K)

which does not have it

but my laptops both have it.. :\

[http://ark.intel.com/products/43559/Intel-
Core-i7-620LM](http://ark.intel.com/products/43559/Intel-Core-i7-620LM)

[http://ark.intel.com/products/53464/Intel-
Core-i7-2640M](http://ark.intel.com/products/53464/Intel-Core-i7-2640M)

~~~
tryp
It actually resides in the pch. The processor is called the management engine.
In newer platforms, it gets to decide if the processor even gets to see the
bios executable code.

------
protomyth
Is it fully documented so we can write open source drivers for it?

~~~
mattst88
The documentation isn't released yet (it usually trails the hardware release
by a few months) but when it is available it will be located on the website of
Intel's Open Source Technology Center:
[https://01.org/linuxgraphics/documentation/hardware-
specific...](https://01.org/linuxgraphics/documentation/hardware-
specification-prms)

And, my team at Intel _is_ writing drivers for it as part of the Mesa project
([http://mesa3d.sourceforge.net](http://mesa3d.sourceforge.net))

~~~
sounds
Thanks for chiming in! Will you please relay our wishes to the powers that be
-- that the GPU driver stay blob-free?

And thanks for contributing the drivers to Mesa!

------
linuxlizard
The only important question: can I finally run Minecraft?

~~~
Mikeb85
Minecraft runs great on HD4000 integrated graphics.

~~~
sliken
Define great? 1600x1200 60fps?

~~~
Mikeb85
1920x1080, not sure about the fps, certainly over 30, possibly 60. No crazy
texture packs or anything, but it runs well. Can also run games like Civ 5,
Trine 2, and Valve games quite well - albeit not with maxed out graphics. KSP
has some issues (probably a Unity thing), but runs good on lower settings.

