
Trump accepts deal for temporary end to painful shutdown - 105e9
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47007081
======
mfoy_
The summary of his speech was:

Government will re-open through to Feb 15th.

Back pay will be paid ASAP.

He spoke about the wall for quite a while.

If congress doesn't agree to fund his wall, he will shut the government back
down on Feb 15th.

~~~
the_gastropod
I feel like I've repeatedly been proven wrong when I have these kinds of
thoughts, but surely, he can't be stupid enough to try this stunt again. After
35 days of hurting people, he got _nothing_. He must realize shutting the
government down to try to force his will is counter-productive, right?

~~~
ignoramceisblis
Negotiations fail to come to a close due to both parties, not one party.
Saying one party is "stupid", has been "hurting people" and "got nothing" is
far from the full picture. Both sides are attempting to "force [their] will".

What may seem reasonable to one party may seem unreasonable to the other,
whether or not either party shows it outwardly.

~~~
mfoy_
Yes and no. In this case, Trump is basically holding government hostage. If
congress doesn't want a wall, he cannot force a wall on them.

EDIT: Better yet, according to that logic, a mugging is just a failed
negotiation. If the victim was just more forthcoming with their money, it
wouldn't have been a problem!

~~~
64738
But the congressional/democrat leaders are on record from just a few years
discussing the importance of border security including barriers. Now that
Trump wants that, too, even the idea of doing so is considered immoral.

For a lot of people (obviously, not all, and I have no clue as to a
percentage), it really has absolutely zero to do a wall or barrier, and it is
completely about thwarting the president. The behavior of both parties is
starting to disgust me.

~~~
alphabettsy
I think his rhetoric has a lot to do with how people view it now. But the
funding that you’re talking about to repair and expand existing barriers was
already used and the barrier exists to my knowledge. Dems also offered
billions for immigration and border security that he rejected because he
specifically wants a wall, despite the fact that it won’t have the greatest
impact which is visa overstays.

~~~
ramblerouser
Democrats dont want to stop visa overstays either (they want to abolish ICE),
so how is that an argument against the wall?

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yingw787
Top comment on New York Times says this is deflection from the Roger Stone
indictment. I think it's likely this is true, since he didn't get anything
solid politically. He might let the government shut down again and pull the
same rabbit out the hat next time Mueller issues an indictment.

On a related note, one article I really enjoyed a few months back was the
decreasing relevance of the nation-state in an era of prolonged peace. It
seems like solid logic: power cannot exist where it is not regularly
exercised, and in an era of conflict and deadlock power can be exercised most
at the local level, where the error kernel is smaller.

[https://aeon.co/essays/the-end-of-a-world-of-nation-
states-m...](https://aeon.co/essays/the-end-of-a-world-of-nation-states-may-
be-upon-us)

------
mfoy_
Off-topic, but damn HN... I submitted the CNBC _and_ CBSNews versions of this.
One got zero up-votes, and the other got flagged.

~~~
ceejayoz
Now this one's flagged. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
mfoy_
Oh well, I can see why HN wouldn't want every passing Trump scandal to show up
on the front page, but this is pretty big.

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jdhn
So if he's going to shut the government down on the 15th (because the wall
isn't getting funded), what's the point of reopening it? His base will be
ticked off, that's for sure.

~~~
krapp
>His base will be ticked off, that's for sure.

His base wants the wall, fully funded, and no quarter given to the Democrats
or their agenda. His base also believes government is corrupt, bloated,
wasteful and infested with leftists and globalist elites. This is exactly what
his base wants.

~~~
cannonedhamster
His base includes a number of people voted into office. It's really kind of
odd that they can't even trust when their own party has the entirety of
government. I don't understand why people dislike any government, yet don't
like if you call them anarchists either. The arguments aren't consistent. The
odd thing is most people do not disagree with a wall in places that make
sense. A wall for a wall's sake is just pointless. I'd rather put that into
tools or manpower (or heaven forbid pay increases). A single drone with heat
vision could scan entire sectors, be controlled remotely and wouldn't require
using eminent domain. Also it couldn't be dug out, cut down, or climbed over
or through. As General Patton is quoted to have said "fixed fortifications are
a monument to the stupidity of man".

~~~
krapp
The wall doesn't make sense from a practical standpoint - there isn't enough
illegal immigration over the southern border to justify billions of dollars to
wall it off entirely, where existing security measures and changes in
immigration policy might have a better effect.

It does, however, make sense as a symbol of right-wing xenophobia and populist
defiance against globalism. If Trump's supporters are focused on the wall,
maybe they won't notice any of the other promises he's not keeping.

------
kevintb
Why is this flagged?

