
YC will hold interviews in Vancouver for founders who can’t get US visas - dwaxe
https://blog.ycombinator.com/us-visas/
======
curiousfiddler
If you don't provide opportunity and a good civil environment to
brilliant/enterprising people, they will find a way elsewhere. And once
Vancouver or any other city starts working for them, Silicon Valley will lose
its exclusivity. The thing to note here is that this response from YC is not a
political one, but a response that came out of market demand; it is pretty
significant if it works out.

~~~
acchow
How will Vancouver improve its weather?

California has a powerful draw...

~~~
mck-
Weather here is amazing! Vancouver has such a bad rep when it comes to rain,
but honestly it's not that bad. Here's what it's really like:

Between May and October, basically half of the year, you'll have very
comfortable T-shirt weather, and blue skies I'd say 70% of the time!

Between December and March it's gloomy, but you'll have awesome snow in the
mountains, just 30 min from downtown :) from our office we can see the slopes.
Just went skiing with the team 2 months ago.

Vancouver is one of the few cities you can ski in the morning and lie on the
beach in the afternoon, grilling BBQ and play beach volleyball.

Life's not that bad! I've been here 5 years :)

BTW, if anyone is in town for the YC interviews, I'd love to show you a good
time!

~~~
acchow
Ski in the morning and play beach volleyball in the afternoon? What month of
the year? Whistler-blackcomb tops out at only 8000ft.

Vancouver gets 1900 hours of sunlight a year. That's not a lot. Compare to
Seattle (which is considered gloomy) at 2170 hours and SF at 3000 hours.

~~~
cperciva
_Ski in the morning and play beach volleyball in the afternoon? What month of
the year? Whistler-blackcomb tops out at only 8000ft._

March or April. We've had an exceptionally harsh winter this year (snow on the
ground in Vancouver for weeks on end -- happens about once a decade) but
usually around now people are admiring the cherry blossoms on their way to the
beach.

Whistler/Blackcomb has a perfectly skiable alpine through to the end of April,
and you can ski past that if you want (but I wouldn't personally recommend
it).

~~~
acchow
Ok, but even in May average high in Vancouver is 16.7C, average low of 8.8C.
That's hardly beach volleyball weather. I'm skeptical of the claim that people
ski in the morning and play beach volleyball in the afternoon...maybe one or
two lucky days a year?

These are exactly the temperatures tons of people in this thread are saying is
cold when referring to San Francisco. They actually correspond with March in
SF.

~~~
mantas
16c is almost tshirt weather in northern europe, which is about same latitude
as Vancouver. This would pass as a colder summer day too. No rain = beach :)

Everybody's perspective is different...

~~~
ZoeZoeBee
60 Farenheit is not T-Shirt Weather, it certainly is not beach weather, that's
cold for a high. As far as the latitude that's fairly irrelevant thanks to the
Atlantic Drift, Great Britain is at the same latitude as Southern Alaska
though their climate is quite different

------
clamprecht
Wow. We often wonder how the Bay Area would be unseated as startup capital of
the world. Maybe it'll be the US's immigration problem.

~~~
mehaveaccount
Calexit would allow California to bring in anyone they want though, and SF
wouldn't have to worry about the US immigration policy screwing up it's tech
scene. I'm looking forward to the Calexit proposition vote.

~~~
komali2
The obvious question is will the US government allow one of its most
profitable states to leave? Highly doubtful. Great way to start another civil
war, though!

~~~
fixxer
I hear a lot of people in my area (West burbs of Chicago) joke about building
the wall up to cut off California. Sure, they're joking, but I don't think the
average citizen outside CA gives a damn about the state as a tax revenue base.
They do, however, get tired of the far left rhetoric. Nobody thinks more
highly about California than Californians.

Personally, I am ambivalent (and technically I am a Californian).

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Only in the US could middle of the road Keynesian economics with a touch of
social liberalism be called "far left"

Good grief.

~~~
fixxer
The flip side of that sentiment is calling fascism on anyone who thinks
sanctuary cities are bullshit.

The lunacy is bipartisan.

~~~
cmrdporcupine
Your US 2 party system is busted to the extreme, and in other G7 countries
your Democratic party would barely be considered "left" let alone "far left",
so yeah, pretty lunatic.

As for sanctuary cities, when your state is sitting on territory that was
formerly part of Mexico, its major cities still carrying Spanish names, its
labour force overwhelmingly dominated by Latinos, it doesn't seem crazy at all
to question the rationale of the US immigration system and borders and try to
accomodate to the realities of the actual real world demographics.

Not to mention from my understanding sanctuary cities have their origin with
the migrant fallout created by the central American wars that the United
States was directly involved in.

~~~
fixxer
Meh. Not really. In parliamentary systems, you might have a lot of parties in
the mix, but they caucus and forms blocs. Same happens here, just upstream
through primaries. Democrats have centrists and progressives and a fringe of
anarcho-socialists. Republicans Ave moderates, conservatives, libertarians,
Tea Party, and whatever the Alt Right is.

As for "overwhelmingly", you make it sound like we're living in Mexico but
have the indecency of calling it the US. As for the current state of
population, LA is around 50% Latino at most. That isn't illegal immigrants.
Those aren't people that identify as Mexicans in America. Those are Americans.
Some even voted for Trump.

All territory was formerly part of someone else's territory. Borders move and
people along with them. I feel no moral burden to accommodate previous
inhabitants, nor would I expect any if the table was turned. That said, if
states truly moved to nullify federal law based on a tenable legal position,
I'd listen. However, they'd have to make such an argument, as opposed to a
philosophical one (like yours, which I don't agree with).

As for your "understanding" of the origin of sanctuary cities, you've been
reading fake news.

~~~
justin66
> In parliamentary systems, you might have a lot of parties in the mix, but
> they caucus and forms blocs. Same happens here, just upstream through
> primaries.

In our two party system, the lesser parties normally never get included in the
legislative process. (those primaries effectively exclude them) In a
parliamentary system any party that gets enough votes will get some seats.

If we adopted that sort of system you'd immediately see some greens and
libertarians involved in the legislative process, and presumably you'd see an
end to jokey pseudolibertarians in the Republican party, since everyone would
just vote for the real thing. The "you're just throwing your vote away"
disincentive would no longer exist. (based purely on how often that topic
comes up in conversation during elections, I assume you'd see some big changes
in the ideological makeup of the legislature)

~~~
fixxer
Yeah, I hear ya and don't disagree totally. I wonder if excluding (norming?)
Those extremes is always a bad thing.

I hate the Alt Right and the Ctrl Left pretty equally.

------
joeguilmette
A friend of mine runs a large, well known webdev agency in India and is
attending a conference in Arizona in April. His friend was planning to come as
well - he owns a US based business, has a US bank account, pays US taxes, has
purchased airfare, hotel, and conference tickets.

He was denied a US visa because "attending a conference is not a good enough
reason".

My friend with the agency who has a visa is concerned he won't get thru
immigration. He was planning on expanding to the US, but is has shelved those
plans.

~~~
blhack
What's the conference? (Arizona webdev here)

~~~
joeguilmette
PressNomics

------
JamilD
This is great news for both Canadian and international founders.

Is the next step having an additional Canadian office for those that can't get
US visas? Canada has a generous startup visa for founders coming from other
countries [0].

[0] [http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-
up/](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/)

~~~
chollida1
The Canadian visa might sound appealing at first blush but won't help for
ycombinator founders as far as I know.

To be eligible you need to have funding from a canadian venture fund, see
below.

I guess ycombinator could setup a Canadian fund and apply for the funding
eligibility, but with the principles being mostly American and living in the
US, I'm guessing it would be a very tough sell.

[http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-
up/eli...](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-
up/eligibility/entities.asp)

~~~
spitfire
Oh please no. Leave the VC reality distortion field south of the border
please.

We don't need YC ruining Canada with hopped up "startup" bros. If we even need
more VC firms (I don't think we do), let indie VC or something like it come
up.

Edit: This isn't meant to mean people shouldn't start companies here. They
should. But they should do it firmly grounded in reality, not based in SV VC
world which has very little to do with building solid long term businesses.

~~~
sdflkd
I agree! Canada needs to continue giving depressed wages for the same/more
work to its talented citizens and then just complain passive aggressively when
they move down south.

------
ddebernardy
In light of recent events [0], there's a non-zero chance that some founders
out there would rather avoid going to the US at all - if only to protest with
their wallet.

It might be more sensible to open a second incubator in the EU. Berlin,
Amsterdam, Dublin, Barcelona, there are plenty of options. (London is a good
choice on paper too but pray tell what'll happen after Brexit.)

[0]:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/26...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/26/u-s-
detains-and-nearly-deports-french-jewish-historian/)

~~~
rocky1138
Why not Waterloo?

[http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/kitchener-
waterloo...](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/kitchener-waterloo-
startup/article25558263/)

~~~
grigory
Having spent a few years in KW, I have a feeling it might be difficult to
convince people to move there.

~~~
jpollock
In the length of time I spend commuting to work in the morning, people in KW
can drive to downtown Toronto to get some fun for the evening.

[https://www.google.com/maps/dir/University+of+Waterloo,+200+...](https://www.google.com/maps/dir/University+of+Waterloo,+200+University+Ave+W,+Waterloo,+ON+N2L+3G1,+Canada/University+of+Toronto+-+St.+George+Campus,+27+King's+College+Cir,+Toronto,+ON+M5S,+Canada/data=!4m8!4m7!1m2!1m1!1s0x882bf6ad02edccff:0xdd9df23996268e17!1m2!1m1!1s0x882b34b8f331fd9b:0x8d1d9bb6765a76f7!3e0?sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr26v8ocrSAhUqwlQKHansCmoQox0IJTAA)

~~~
jlgosse
I wouldn't say 1h46m each way is something many people would want to do very
often - why not just live in Toronto?

------
OoTheNigerian
Great intent.

I'd like to know the reasoning behind choosing Canada as an alternative
interview location because from experience, it easier to get a US visitor visa
than that of Canada.

Nigerians cannot even transit the Canadian airport without a visa which takes
upward of 8 weeks to get AFTER approval vs days for the US. Requirements for
Canada are more onerous.

2 suggestions.

1\. A country of interview per continent. For instance, Dubai will cover
Africans + Middle East + Europe

2\. Shortlist some countries and let people select 2 options to interview at.

On paper, the passport index [1] looks like a good way to do it but doesn't
take into account spread of countries that can visit

[1] www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php

~~~
dusing
I also know several US citizens that have been denied entry into Canada
because of a DUI in the United States. AFAIK It's not a hard fast rule, and
you won't find out until you get there.

Canada doesn't exactly have an open border.

~~~
gregmac
As a Canadian, I was surprised someone would be denied entry for a DUI. Since
I looked this up I'll summarize:

Essentially Canada can prevent people who have committed what would be
indictable crimes under Canadian law from entering. DUI is particularly
strange because it can be either an indictable (serious) or summary (less
serious) offence, and in Canada this depends on the circumstances and the way
it's prosecuted. Coupled with the varying laws in different states regarding
DUI/DWI/OUI/etc, and presumably to prevent the border guard having to act as a
Canadian criminal court (to judge how it would be handled here) they just
always treat it as if it was an indictable offence.

So even if you're not driving and not intending to drive, the fact it's a
potentially indictable criminal offence is what prevents entry -- nothing at
all to do with it being a DUI.

There appears to be a couple possible ways to be admitted despite a criminal
record[1], by getting either a Temporary Resident Permit (TRP) or being
granted Criminal Rehabilitation. I'm not sure what's involved with either, or
how likely it is to be approved, but they apparently issue around 10,000 TRPs
a year.

[http://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-
experience/pr...](http://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-
experience/prior-criminal-offenses/resolving-criminal-inadmissibility-to-
canada/)

------
cperciva
I'm a couple hours late to this thread, but speaking as a long-time member of
the HN community and Vancouverite: Welcome!

I'm happy to assist YC and/or founders with anything requiring local
experience or a local presence. Send me an email.

~~~
neptunespear
If you're Colin Percival, I know you from Reddit. You're /u/perciva, right?
SFU Senate member, an /r/simonfraser mod.

~~~
cperciva
Yes. I was originally /u/cperciva on Reddit, but forgot the password for that
account a few months in and created /u/perciva.

And yes, I'm coming to the end of my fourth 3-year term on the Senate, and
about to submit my nomination papers seeking re-election for a fifth term.

~~~
delano
Yeah but did you win the Putnam tho?

~~~
cperciva
Only once. :-(

------
neptunespear
Combined with Expa Labs opening an office in Vancouver, it seems that
President Trump is the best thing that could ever happen to Vancouver's tech
scene. Our anchors historically have been companies like IBM, HSBC, Nokia, and
Ericsson, which are all shells of their former selves and have long since
closed down their presences in Vancouver. The few existing long-term anchors
include MDA and Vision Critical, and SAP's BI division (SAP BusinessObjects
and BusinessObjects Cloud, which originated from a local startup called
Crystal Decisions which was purchased by SAP in 2008 by way of some Seagate
M&As), along with gamedev and film/TV VFX studios which are all feast-or-
famine. Just look at the fate of Radical, Roadhouse Interactive, United Front
Games, Pixar's office in Vancouver. Sony Imageworks, A Thinking Ape and Animal
Logic might go the same way if the loonie increases in value. HootSuite is set
to go under eventually as CRM suites integrate social media management; they
waited too late to IPO. So this might be the kick in the ass the Vancouver
tech scene needs in the eventual post-HootSuite landscape.

So, I say, with all sincerity, "thanks, Trump."

~~~
vecinu
Expa's founder is from BC so I think them opening up an office there is mostly
due to an excess of cash they have from Uber's success, not that it
necessarily makes sense from a VC perspective.

I hope I'm wrong since I would love to see Vancouver / Toronto have the same
earning power as SV.

~~~
milunt
We're opening up Vancouver because there's a massive untapped potential of
talent in the area that we can help bridge with SF.

I've met and seen many amazing entrepreneurs, developers, designers and all
other roles of a startup in this city who are very capable and talented. Our
goal is to give them a platform and a opportunity to realize success without
having to move south.

~~~
neptunespear
Protip: Listen to this guy. He's Milun Tesovic, the Expa Labs co-founder and
SFU Beedie alumuns.

While I have your ear, Milun, I was curious why Expa didn't open in K-W or
Montreal first. They're much closer to east coast tech hubs.

------
sremani
May be this is a dumb question, I will ask it anyway, Tijuana Mexico is about
500 miles from Bay Area, where as Vancouver Canada is 1000 miles.

Que Canada?

~~~
ajeet_dhaliwal
Going to 'Diet USA' is likely more seamless and convenient. I lived in Canada
for several years and I honestly think that's a good description for it, you
cannot really tell whether you are in Michigan or Ontario if you don't look at
the road signs.

~~~
jcranmer
Or visit the museums, where all the exhibits have both French and English
text.

As an American who worked in Canada for a summer, I can honestly say that the
two countries are so similar you're surprised by any minor differences that do
come up.

~~~
krisdol
Have you been in Quebec? Montreal is more like a central European city than
anything in the US. I haven't been to Quebec City but I gather it's not much
different.

It's also starkly different if you look at share of wealth. Class divisions
are smaller in Canada, noticeably so.

------
EternalData
It's oddly ominous reading about America's rise on the back of textile patents
taken from England and Europe, then poaching of German physics talent and
scientific talent from across the world. Germany was, by far, the pre-eminent
power in theoretical physics at the turn of the 20th century, with Einstein,
Heisenberg, Planck & Born about to be at the peak of their powers. Then the
country decided to turn on intellectuals, immigrants, and minorities and
turned its scientific prowess to war rather than peace.

There's an old saying out there that history is merely a set of cycles. I
suppose we'll see if that is true in the upcoming years.

*one note I would add is that with recent policy uncertainty (i.e healthcare) the advantages of hiring around the world have come into starker relief. That's even more dangerous. Sure, the United States may become less competitive in the war for talent because of walls and tighter borders -- but it'll become less competitive, period, for companies relying on high-skill workers who by definition will be close to or at the peak of their physical and/or mental health.

~~~
komali2
As a Texan it boggled my mind to hear people complain about immigration. Walk
into UT, A&M, UH engineering departments, half the students are Chinese or
Russian or Indian. In the grad programs it's even more.

That means their _best talent_ is _here_ , paying US taxes, contributing to US
companies, making the US more powerful, all the while contributing almost
nothing to their home countries. How is that a bad thing! I don't get it!

~~~
degenerate
You might want to take a step outside the academic setting every once in a
while.

Chat with a cop, ambulance driver, or immigration officer from a sanctuary
city if you really want to "get" it.

It's the illegal immigrants that suck the system dry, not the smart, diligent,
legitimate ones working in academia and top companies.

~~~
mindcrime
_It 's the illegal immigrants that suck the system dry, not the smart,
diligent, legitimate ones working in academia and top companies._

That sounds like a grossly inaccurate generalization to me. A lot of "illegal
immigrants" are an absolutely essential part of the economy, performing jobs
like picking oranges in the Florida heat/humidity, doing roofing work, washing
dishes, etc. Interview farmers in the south and ask them how many American
born workers are willing to even take many farm jobs.

These people most definitely are not "sucking the system dry". And a system
that can be "sucked dry" has a design flaw which should be rectified anyway.

~~~
ng12
> A lot of "illegal immigrants" are an absolutely essential part of the
> economy, performing jobs like picking oranges in the Florida heat/humidity,
> doing roofing work, washing dishes, etc

This is what kind of gets me though. Supporting illegal immigration is
supporting indentured servitude. I've especially noticed it in NYC, it boils
down to "I'll support your right to stay here as long as I can still find a $6
burrito and a cheap nanny".

~~~
vinay427
That's not entirely fair. If the immigrant feels that they have a better life
as a low-wage worker in the US (keep in mind many are escaping violent or
oppressive surroundings) then I won't be the judge of that by imposing
artificial limits on livelihood. We can at least acknowledge that we are
improving the lives of those immigrants for whom this is the case.

~~~
remarkEon
Can we? There doesn't appear to be a limiting principle in your argument.

------
dmode
As someone who is tired of the decades long wait and uncertainty in the US
immigration system, it would be amazing if tech companies were to open a
Vancouver outpost and offer transfers to people in visas. I would take that in
a heartbeat. May be YC can consider another incubator in Vancouver

~~~
neptunespear
Vancouver has been a popular place to transfer foreign talent to the U.S. for
years. It's a short drive to Seattle, a short flight to San Francisco, and in
the same time zone as both cities.

Famously, Facebook had an office in Coal Harbour that was just for
transferring hires to Menlo Park, they didn't hire any Canadian citizens or
permanent residents.

Even more famously, Microsoft's recent expansion in Vancouver, the "Excellence
Centre" (doubling its workforce from 400 in Yaletown to 800), was mostly going
to be for L-1 visa transfers to Redmond HQ. 360 of those positions were
planned, with MS only promising 40 positions (5%) for citizens/PRs. The former
Conservative government offered winking acknowledgement. However, voters in
Canada were furious when the mass abuse of the TFW program came to light,
which forced the government's hand.

The vast majority of positions at the "Excellence Centre" (which was opened by
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and houses ~650 engineers as of now) have gone
to locals. Anecdotally, I've heard that ever since the TFW backlash, the most
popular cities in which to open visa transfer offices have been London and
Zurich.

If you want to see the documents proving that MS was mostly going to hire visa
transfers in Vancouver, documents obtained by CBC News under the province's
access to information laws show what were the draft plans:
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1685182-b-c-atip-
doc...](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1685182-b-c-atip-documents-
temporary-foreign-workers.html)

~~~
timthelion
How is the border between the US and Canada these days? When I went skiing at
Wistler, it took us longer to wait to cross the border than it took us to
drive from Seattle to the border!

------
mck-
It would be awesome if they set up a remote office here in Vancouver :)

------
exabrial
Who is having trouble getting a Visa exactly? Just curious, trying to separate
fact from hysteria

~~~
mschuster91
> Who is having trouble getting a Visa exactly? Just curious, trying to
> separate fact from hysteria

Anyone, even US citizens, who does not want ICE/CBP snooping on his/her IT
equipment, cellphones or social media accounts.

Certainly I (born German/Croatian, living in Germany) might be able to land
myself a nice shiny job in the US IT industry but no way I'm ever crossing
your border as long as such outrageous privacy violations are legal.

~~~
ruleabidinguser
Are these practices unusual?

~~~
mschuster91
Randomly grabbing people at border entry and dumping their whole device
contents? Or demanding their Facebook passwords? Yes, this is unusual.

But, I have to admit, Germany is planning something similar in even more
sinister form: our government plans to buy forensic imagers for all
immigration officers... to mirror and scan phones of applying refugees, to
determine if they really come from where they claim. Of course, you won't get
much resistance from refugees, much less from the general public... but who
knows, in two years this "test balloon" can easily be extended to every
immigrant.

------
IndianAstronaut
Mexico could capitalize on this as well. Guadalajara is a mini tech hub.

~~~
makmanalp
I visited Guadalajara for a few days and it was great! People were extremely
friendly and tolerant of my 100 word spanish vocabulary. Housing and living is
very reasonable, food is quite cheap, the weather is mild and the city is
lively, if a bit spread out. I didn't feel more unsafe than I did in Istanbul.
I didn't get a chance to see the tech stuff but there were a bunch of
companies and also a reasonably lively meetup scene too!

------
aarontyree
This is just the opportunity Vancouver needs. They have been laying
infrastructure to attract startups, and have been working on plans for a
highspeed train between Vancouver and Seattle which are only 2.5 hours
apart...

------
chuhnk
What if it's because I oppose the muslim ban and refuse to enter the US?
That's a serious question. Actually I feel like the response to that will be,
"It's your choice" but hey solidarity man!

~~~
discombobulate
Have all Muslims been banned from the US? I thought it was only a set of
countries draw up by Obama.

Edit: Words are hard!

Edit2: Yes, downvote me & upvote the hyperbole. Welcome to the post-fact
world. All Muslims are banned. Trump is Hitler. The stock market's going to
crash. Anyone right of Obama is racist scum who should lose their job. Etc.

~~~
redditmigrant
Whats the rationale for banning even one? Were there any actual threats? There
were certainly no attacks by immigrants/refugees from those countries.

According to you we should wait for things to reach peak bigotry before
reacting. Would you have the same "oh no big deal" reaction if a single
Christian country was banned mainly for being christian?

~~~
discombobulate
I don't think it's necessary to exaggerate the facts of the matter to argue
against the policy.

If anything, a falsehood weakens the position of the person making the
argument. It's easier to defend the truth. It's more robust.

------
raverbashing
As much as the tech world wants to "disrupt" they want to stay "cozy" in their
California corner with their known business environment and English speaking
places and their way of doing things.

To which I can assume there is cultural shock even when they go to the East
Coast

But the world is big and not everything that happens appears on HN (or even on
English speaking media).

------
startupdiscuss
Perhaps a startup founder could exploit "ease-of-travel arbitrage" and offer a
service: Remote working from several countries that are easy to get to, accept
a wide range of passports, and have enormous bandwidth.

Canada is a lot more open than the US at this point in time, but it's not all
roses for people even to get to Vancouver.

What if there were a hub in, say Dubai? And a few other spots around the
world?

I imagine Ycombinator would be one of many potential clients. Universities
whose students have to delay a semester might use it. Other institutions would
use it.

~~~
smsm42
Dubai is an excellent idea. UAE is one of the countries, for example, that
bans any citizens of Israel and anybody who ever visited Israel from entry.
Nice way to solve those visa questions once and for all. Why worry about
unclear visa policy if we can choose a country with a clear "no Jews allowed"
visa policy?

~~~
startupdiscuss
This is just misinformation.

There are many jews living and working in Dubai.

It is true that Israeli passports are not allowed. But that is the point of
multiple sites. Perhaps Cambodia would have been a better choice.

~~~
smsm42
> it is true that Israeli passports are not allowed

So not misinformation. And not only Israeli passports but any having Israeli
citizenship even if they use another passport, and anybody who has Israeli
stamp in their passport, isn't it?

~~~
startupdiscuss
One is a country, and the other is a religion.

No, the "stamp rule" was never a rule, and it has long since been clarified
that stamps are fine. Please do some googling before you get into disputes.

------
h4nkoslo
Good. The entire premise of the internet is that it allows coordination at low
latency over distance.

It's also probably not fantastic for the United States to be strip mining the
entire >130 IQ population of eg Sudan and packing them into SF/NY/DC to work
on ad optimization when they're desperately needed by their own people;
setting up infrastructure to work remotely is a great first step to
eliminating the brain drain problem period.

~~~
fennecfoxen
I like the way your world-view treats intelligent people. Instead of having
them being independent agents, there's some form of _ownership_ of them...
such that if they head off to foreign lands to pursue what they feel is a
better life and earn more money, then it's a _theft_ of community property.

All Sudanese should be happy with their lot in life and either work to improve
it or _rot_. So how dare these Western companies pay the dark skinned people
of Sudan as much money as rich white people could earn!!!

(No seriously though, the implications of what you say are disturbing to me.)

~~~
h4nkoslo
The disturbance you feel is likely at least partly cognitive dissonance at the
idea of open borders amounting to labor colonialism.

It's an interesting idea, wouldn't you say? What _are_ the effects of ensuring
Sudan or wherever is unable to maintain a functional local elite? Are they
good or bad, on balance? If we strip-mine all of their potentially capable
administrators, do we have an obligation to administer their state for them,
or just airdrop rice every couple years, or what?

The idea that states and people have reciprocal obligations beyond Maximum GDP
isn't exactly novel.

~~~
jpttsn
Oh good I thought it was novel. I guess individuals have nothing to worry
about, as long as the idea is ancient.

------
brilliantcode
I'm not part of YC but if you are in downtown Vancouver around Robson Square,
give me a shout (email is in profile) and let's get a coffee!

Welcome to Vancouver.

------
elchief
/r/vancouver "Visiting Vancouver" page:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/visiting](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/visiting)

------
rocky1138
This is the business equivalent of a code smell.

------
gamache
This is a positive thing for YC. Great.

I mean, YC's still onboard with Peter Thiel: YC Partner, one of Trump's most
significant individual donors, and founder of Palantir, the analytics services
company that's powering the Trump administration's purge of immigrants
([http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/07/peter-thiel-palantir-trump-
im...](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/07/peter-thiel-palantir-trump-immigrant-
crackdown.html)).

But good for YC. Helping several foreign entrepreneurs break into the Valley
scene. Moving the needle.

------
no1youknowz
If there was an interview day in London, UK. I would actually apply in a
heartbeat.

------
anovikov
Why not just open a EU branch? Participate remotely - bad idea :(

------
desireco42
For those who thing this will unseat SV, no, quite the contrary, showing this
flexibility will just make people want to work more with Ycombinator and here.

------
jonny_eh
Why not Toronto? It has a much more vibrant tech scene.

~~~
andkon
I wondered the same thing. If they launched another location for YC, I would
hope they wouldn't just do it because it's in the same timezone, because dang
would Toronto be way better.

------
CJKinni
As someone who went through quite the arduous process to end up working in the
US legally, this is great news. Many friends I've had over the years have been
unable to access many great resources due to their inability to lawfully work
in a different location. I'm happy to see YC making progress towards offering
quality opportunities to exceptional individuals in different locations.

------
sdtsui
Vancouver-based founder here. What's the best way to stay on top of this --
apply through the front door? Would be up for connecting with others looking
to apply when YC comes to Vancouver.

------
ganfortran
Well, it is a very assuring and comforting move for internationals in this
tempest. Thanks for doing this.

------
svsjc
We need technologies which will make location unimportant.

With virtual reality, 4k HD conferencing and network bandwidth which can
support both.

California taxes and real estate prices in SV will make more businesses move
to Texas and other states where there is little or no income taxes.

------
dvdhnt
That's cool. Good for folks in that situation.

What about people with families or dependents that can't afford to uproot
their life and relocate to SV?

Don't get me wrong, this is great, but it would be even better if it expanded
to include additional circumstances.

~~~
Clanan
Very interesting considering the post even discusses participating remotely.
Politically incorrect theory: enabling people with families just isn't as sexy
as helping immigrant founders.

~~~
sdflkd
Other theory: having a family is a choice. Being of X nationality is not.

~~~
emiliobumachar
Note that the two theories are very much compatible, in fact, yours could help
explain GP's.

------
minikites
[https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/business/how-trump-
became...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/business/how-trump-became-the-
first-silicon-valley-president.html)

> “Trump is the Silicon Valley candidate in every way except that the ideology
> is flipped,” said Sam Altman, a prominent technology leader, chief executive
> of Y Combinator.

So now that the government has been "disrupted", YC has decided to avoid the
issue by fleeing the country? Maybe instead of avoiding the issue, YC could
organize Silicon Valley and spend some of it's political power actually
addressing the issue (lobbying, funding local candidates, etc). Silicon Valley
is home to many fantastically powerful corporations and individuals, it's time
they took a stand for justice.

~~~
aasarava
Yes, this is an important comment. While it's a virtue for Silicon Valley
organizations like YC to adapt quickly, adapting in this case means clearing
the way for the administration to solidify its haphazard immigration policy.
Hopefully the YC staff is using its connections to Peter Thiel and others who
have the president's attention to lobby hard against a policy that will
directly and indirectly hurt many people and businesses in Silicon Valley.

------
mynegation
Maybe they will take it further and set up shop in Vancouver or Toronto.

------
baristaGeek
Isn't this going against the recently approved International Entrepreneur
Rule?

EDIT: It'll work pretty well for people coming from countries which have the
Muslim ban.

------
jaypaulynice
Why even go to that length when you can interview on video?

------
fixxer
I'm really interested in hearing how many interviews take place in Vancouver
for the intended reason (as opposed to, for example, personal protest).

------
elmar
Why not do it also in London for European founders?

~~~
chrisper
I don't know if London would be a good choice due to Brexit. Maybe Amsterdam
instead.

------
arihant
If ease of attracting international founders is a concern, my recommendation
would be Dubai. Unbelievable facilities which are turn key in their own
business hub, a tax free environment to incorporate in, if it goes there.
Foreigners can own property, which just makes sense for a future hub.

One of the easiest tourist visas to obtain for vast majority of nationalities,
with cheap flights. Near EU, other Asian countries, and Africa. Thailand and
Singapore could be other options, but they are far from EU.

~~~
nonane
What about the internet there? Isn't it censored and relatively slow and
expensive? VPNs are legally banned (1). Last I checked, FaceTime + WhatsApp
audio were completely blocked in Dubai. Skype was blocked when on mobile data
(but available on PC-to-PC).

1 - [http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/crime/using-vpns-what-uae-
resid...](http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/crime/using-vpns-what-uae-residents-
need-to-know-1.1872123)

~~~
arihant
Those restrictions do not apply in the business district, AFAIK. There is a
lot of encapsulation that Dubai provides international businesses from their
local restrictions.

~~~
devoply
Don't ever want to work in a place where you can be thrown into jail for
months for getting pregnant out of wedlock.

~~~
arihant
But you do want to work in a place where you get shot based on color of skin?
You can see why making blanket statements based on a piece of news you read
from another continent is not the right way to judge an entire country.

Besides, my recommendation was for conducting YC interviews, not exactly
living there. A 2-day YC tour conducting interviews in Dubai would enable
founders from 3 continents to participate more heavily.

~~~
devoply
> judge an entire country.

I am not judging an entire country. I am judging their legal system, their
sense of ethics and morality. There is a difference between a loose canon cop
or idiot killing someone because of racial reasons and a whole ethical and
moral and legal system which do not conform to my sense of morality. I would
avoid the entire Middle East for this reason.

------
jtl999
Vancouver is a nice place. Love it here :)

------
rusht
Great founders and technologists are an amazing asset to US, we'd be lucky to
have them.

------
kieranr
Sorry, are they just conducting interviews in Van or actually running a cohort
there?

------
hal9000xp
I'm curious does Canada require bachelor degree for this type of visa or not?

------
nojvek
I would love to see YC funding Vancouver companies and working with them.

------
rebootthesystem
There are a number of questions that have not been asked:

How many applicants does YC have from countries with visa issues?

Has any YC applicant been denied entry into the US? If so, what were the
circumstances?

In looking though YC historical records, how many people, on average, would
typically apply from affected regions?

How many of those people were accepted into the program?

How many of those people succeeded?

In the age of Skype, why can't interviews be conducted without the need to
travel?

Yes, I understand speaking to someone in person delivers a lot more
information than possible through online meetings. An initial online meeting
could function well as a 1 to 3 pass filter leading up to an in-person
meeting, thereby providing a lot more time to deal with visa issues.

I am taking a wait-and-see attitude with regards to visa restriction issues.
As is the case with any startup or new venture, mistakes are made, non-ideal
rules are implemented, some confusion seeps in, etc. So long as the process is
one where the right solution is evolved and the ability to pivot is retained
things eventually improve. These rules should not behave differently.

What gives me hope? Take a look at who sits in Trump's business advisory
council (not sure this is a current list):

[http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-on-trump-business-
advi...](http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-on-trump-business-advisory-
council-2017-2)

It would be inconceivable that this topic isn't discussed with frequency in
these meetings.

If I were to presume to be able to give YC advice it would be this:

Use your connections to gain a seat in this council.

Being part of the dialog is the best way to affect positive change. That
doesn't mean agreeing with all policies, it does mean you'd be heard at the
highest levels rather than not.

And, if you do gain a seat in this council I would further ask that you work
hard to convince the administration to take the SBA and convert it into a YC-
style program where, in every city of this country, entrepreneurs can have
access to not just funding but a real support infrastructure to chase after
their ideas.

The SBA has never been of real use to the myriad of startups that have
revolutionized the world. If you want to borrow $100K from the SBA you better
have $100K in the bank, or more. And the "advisers" they offer-up are often so
far behind the times they are only good to help open a doughnut shop or more
traditional non-scale-able businesses.

Yeah, do that and the immigration thing and you'll change this country. But
you have to be on the inside to do it.

------
mediocrejoker
What happens if you get accepted and still can't get a visa?

------
jensv
What is the visa situation right now? What exactly has changed?

~~~
fennecfoxen
You know H1B visas? You know how there's an expedited program for them which
basically every tech company tries to use? Well, not anymore there isn't.

First link off Google News: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2017/mar/06/us-h1b-visa-...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2017/mar/06/us-h1b-visa-program-suspended-trump-silicon-valley)

And, there may be more changes coming in the future, so, yay political risk?

~~~
praneshp
(I'm on H1b)

The lack of an expedited program does not really call for this kind of a move.
If you are a new applicant (ie never held h1 before), you have to wait till
Oct 1 to start anywy, so the USCIS taking 3 months to process your application
does not affect your ability to work. If you are transferring to another
company, you can switch after you receive your receipt, which is usually under
a couple of weeks (at least the times I've tried).

Do YC founders usually come in on a H1b visa? I don't understand how that
would work well, given that there is a lottery every year. Also, I wish you
had adopted a less snarky tone.

------
homakov
Weird choice of country for this purpose. I wonder who needs visa to the US
and doesn't need one to Canada, and I'm pretty sure the number is small.

~~~
doh
As others pointed out, Canada recently made mandatory their eTA program which
is very similar to US ESTA, so the differences are non-existent anymore.

Original text: The number is huge. For instance the whole EU doesn't need visa
for Canada [0] but it does for US (although it's called a waiver program [1],
which guarantees nothing).

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Canada#Visa_exe...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Canada#Visa_exemptions)
[1] [https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-
waiver-...](https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-
program.html)

~~~
homakov
That's news to me. I thought EU can enter US easily

~~~
ubernostrum
The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) allows citizens of 38 countries to enter the US
for up to 90 days without a visa.

The Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) is an online form which
asks questions and determines whether someone is covered by the VWP. Using
ESTA to determine this in advance is required when arriving in the US by air,
but not when crossing a land border from Canada or Mexico.

The "doesn't guarantee anything" bit is true but misleading, since ESTA
doesn't provide a visa and doesn't provide an absolute guarantee someone will
be admitted under the VWP -- the determination of whether to allow someone to
enter is always made at the border.

Couple things that are good to know:

1\. VWP/ESTA is not terribly different from some other systems, like
Australia's ETA, in using the "you don't need a visa, but you do need to check
your eligibility online in advance" approach.

2\. _Not_ all EU citizens are eligible for the VWP. Citizens of Bulgaria,
Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania are _not_ eligible for VWP. Which is
something the EU has been consistently angry about, and recently the European
Parliament rattled its sabers a bit about revoking visa-free travel to the EU
for US citizens unless the US adds those five countries to the VWP.

~~~
_delirium
> 1\. VWP/ESTA is not terribly different from some other systems, like
> Australia's ETA, in using the "you don't need a visa, but you do need to
> check your eligibility online in advance" approach.

Relevant to this thread, it's also quite similar to Canada's eTA, which became
mandatory for everyone arriving by air, except Canadian and U.S. passport
holders, in November 2016.

------
known
Administration may unleash FATCA on YC

------
dadrian
Thank you, sama, for doing this.

------
unixhero
How about Oslo & Berlin?

------
seesomesense
Kudos to ycombinator !

------
billions
Why not Tijuana?

~~~
EduardoBautista
I have lived in Tijuana and it's one of the worst cities in the country. If
you _really_ have to choose a Mexican city, Guadalajara or Mexico City are
orders of magnitude better options.

------
GuiA
The lead the US has had in science/engineering/technology over the past 70+
years is in no small part due to the massive brain drain from Europe, and the
rest of the world, due to fascist regimes.

If the US's new shiny fascist regime keeps progressing at this pace, you can
bet that things will reverse quickly. Good bye, world leading startups, nobel
prizes, top universities, etc. These things can happen faster than one tends
to think.

The best thing countries like China could do right now is heavily open up to
English, and fund things such as foreign PhD students. Everyone is fighting to
get into Harvard and MIT right now, but a half decade of Trump policies could
have drastic consequences a few decades down the line and give us a very
different world.

\--

Edit: some followup to this comment further below
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13831085](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13831085)

People also seem to get stuck on "China" in my comment. If that makes you
unhappy, replace that word with Brazil, Japan, Singapore, Estonia, whatever
you want... the point is, viewed under the "startup lens", this new
administration makes the dominance of the US in STEM/entrepreneurship ripe for
disruption by a more nimble, flexible entity.

~~~
monksy
Comment Rating: 1/10: Just another Political post

> The lead the US has had in science/engineering/technology over the past 70+
> years is in no small part due to the massive brain drain from Europe, and
> the rest of the world, due to fascist regimes.

Awesome! I was curious about hearing more about this.

> If the US's new shiny fascist regime keeps progressing at this pace,

You're making a claim that is fairly recent and that is intentionally
inflammatory. Then you're making a comparison to someone and the party that is
new to older established negatively impacting politics.

If something is going on at the moment that is relevant, name the specific
thing. Trying to blame the whole group now is just silly pandering.

\----

Why did you feel that it was necessary to inject political commentary into
this? I'm really tired of hearing armchair politicians or regurgitation of
political pundits. This is hacker news not r/Politics.

~~~
GuiA
If you are curious to hear more about this, you can read the following
articles, for a start:

[http://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/23/movies/european-minds-
who-...](http://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/23/movies/european-minds-who-fled-
fascism.html)

(and the related documentary)

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/1991-11-03/the-
sovie...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/1991-11-03/the-soviet-brain-
drain-is-the-u-dot-s-dot-brain-gain)

 _> If something is going on at the moment that is relevant, name the specific
thing. Trying to blame the whole group now is just silly pandering._

Huh yes, how about the current executive order ban on muslim countries, and
the general eagerness of the current administration to purge the US of many
kinds of immigrants who are there completely legally? Many of my Iranian
coworkers - most with PhDs from US universities - are affected by this. Many
academic conferences I participate in are experiencing problems because
organizers or speakers didn't get visas. Several professors are telling me
they had to pass on promising applicants due to visa concerns. Anyone in an
academic/research environment right now will tell you these things.

 _> Why did you feel that it was necessary to inject political commentary into
this? I'm really tired of hearing armchair politicians or regurgitation of
political pundits. This is hacker news not r/Politics._

And I'm tired of techies thinking politics can be refactored into its neat own
class, properly abstracted out of any other activity they take part in.
Everything is inherently political, and aspiring to "change the world" through
your startup or work is obviously so.

Regarding your unhappiness with me calling the current regime fascist... well,
when the president in power has insinuated the assassination of his opponents,
encouraged his supporters to engage in violence, been spinning outlandish lies
about the former president wiretapping him, etc, well I call that fascism
¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

~~~
Banthum
>when the president in power has insinuated the assassination of his
opponents, encouraged his supporters to engage in violence, been spinning
outlandish lies about the former president wiretapping him, etc, well I call
that fascism ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

Consider looking up the definition, because the definition of fascism is not
"having a leader who makes dumb statements".

Nor is this word a label for "a politician who makes you feel really bad
emotions".

It means a certain type of government policy.

~~~
kbenson
> It means a certain type of government policy.

Did you actually look up the word? All the sources I'm seeing[1][2][3] _also_
say that it can be used or is commonly used to denote someone with
authoritarian or extreme right-wing views.

1:
[https://www.google.com/search?q=define+fascism](https://www.google.com/search?q=define+fascism)

2:
[http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism?s=t](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism?s=t)

3:
[https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fascism)

------
ben0x539
Submissions of articles from YC/by YC people always have the least descriptive
titles. :(

Edit: Thanks!

~~~
shmageggy
I think it's a signalling thing, like when people sign their emails with a
single lowercase initial, i.e. we're too busy and important to spend time on
this.

------
davidw
"Move fast and break things" indeed :-/

[https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/839608371686801410](https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/839608371686801410)

~~~
alpha_squared
Wow, that's pretty far out of context. Far enough to imply the opposite of the
statement's sentiment. For reference, the full quote by Altman is,

> “Trump is the Silicon Valley candidate in every way except that the ideology
> is flipped,” said Sam Altman, a prominent technology leader, chief executive
> of Y Combinator and a major Hillary Clinton donor. “He’s an outsider. He
> took on a system he thought was broken and then disregarded the rules, he
> got to know his users well and tested his product early and iterated
> rapidly. That’s the start-up playbook. That’s exactly what we tell our
> start-ups to do.”

Cherry-picking the words in the quote to paint the picture that Altman
supports Trump somehow is quite deceitful.

~~~
davidw
He's not saying Altman supports Trump. He's saying the idea that he's doing
things like a startup would is in error.

[https://twitter.com/tqbf](https://twitter.com/tqbf)

I mean, most startups don't have the opportunity to "break things" like this:

[http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/03/politics/travel-ban-iranian-
ba...](http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/03/politics/travel-ban-iranian-baby-heart-
surgery-trnd/)

~~~
badcede
> "He's not saying Altman supports Trump"

"continues to give every sign of being in fact a quiet supporter of the
administration"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13824917](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13824917)

~~~
sama
I can't believe I have to say this given everything I've written on the
subject (here is the first thing:
[http://blog.samaltman.com/trump](http://blog.samaltman.com/trump)) , but I
don't support Trump in any way.

My point in the parent-linked article is just that Trump beat us using our own
playbook, and shame on us if we don't notice that and adjust for next time.

~~~
tptacek
What do you want people who have a problem with what you're doing to say? That
we feel bad for you, because you don't mean to be communicating the things
you're communicating? Do I believe you want to support Trump? No, I do not.

I don't want to recap the whole sad thread from last night on this thread too.
I took the time to reply to you there, and to explain more fully what my issue
is. Just like I'm sure you don't want to be doing things to help the Trump
administration, I'm also sure you don't mean to beg me to repeat a whole bunch
of stuff I already wrote about this.

None of this conversation belongs on this thread. Rather than feed it, we
should just ask the moderators to detach and bury it.

------
seppin
Do..you have a point?

~~~
dang
Please post civilly and substantively.

We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13830841](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13830841)
and marked it off-topic.

------
muninn_
Dubai? So are you not interested in attracting women to startups?

~~~
asadlionpk
Have you even been to Dubai? It's more happening place than SF. Clearly you
have no idea and can't differentiate b/w Saudi and Dubai.

~~~
bruceb
Look at the visa policy for unmarried women under 30 for Dubai. It's not SA
yes, but is still restrictive

update: It seems the restriction on women traveling who don't have
husbands/fathers has been relaxed/ended. Looking more into it.

Update 2: On UAE Embassy for US no mention of restrictions But not the case
for other countries.

For Indian women one provider states: For female applicants and students who
are above 18 years and travelling alone require NOC from parents / husband,
Photo ID of parents/ husband. Coloured copy of the host passport / residence
visa

~~~
homakov
> Look at the visa policy for unmarried women under 30 for Dubai

With little googling you can find a reason behind this. Dubai escorts is huge.

~~~
bruceb
That reasoning could be used to justify a lot of things.

(I know you may be stating their reasoning and not I am not saying you are
endorsing that)

~~~
homakov
I totally don't endorse that. But it gets better, last month they removed
visas for Russians and I'm coming soon!

------
27hours
I'm new to the site. Seems you are controlling things around here (moderator
to say). Why are my comments only visible when I'm logged in? as soon as I
logout and look at the comments on this article as unregistered user, I do not
see any of my comments. That gives false sense that everyone is looking at my
comments but in reality they are being hidden. That makes me think other users
even when they are logged in the website will not see my comments because they
are censored Probably as comments are not in line with rhetoric of those in
charge of this site, maybe? Is it a way to censor what YC does not agree with?
I never knew this existed.

Please explain if otherwise.

~~~
dang
Your comments were killed by anti-abuse software that detects past patterns by
trolls. The software looks to me to have gotten it right. You've been posting
comments that don't fit the site guidelines and creating multiple accounts to
do it.

HN moderation is based on
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)
and
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html),
not YC.

Political or ideological battle is not what the site is intended for, so we
ban accounts that use it primarily for that purpose.

We detached this comment from
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13833091](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13833091)
and marked it off-topic.

------
throwawaysed
I like how HN will change any clickbait titles you post but regularly does
clickbait titles of its own.

This entire article could, and should, be a single sentence title.
"YCombinator holding Canada interviews for founders without US Visa".

~~~
dang
Assume good faith! We changed the title to representative language from the
article.

~~~
throwawaysed
:) Sorry, I always carry my trusty pitchfork when on the internet.

