
First Impressions of a $9 CHIP Computer - ingve
https://spin.atomicobject.com/2016/03/27/chip-computer-review/
======
noonespecial
I'm going to go ahead and say it. It doesn't count until I can buy them in any
quantity at any time for $9 each. Shipping to a few backers doesn't count.
"One per customer, supplies limited" doesn't count. 6 month waiting time,
"special" shipping charges/handling fees/only available as part of a more
expensive "kit"... you get the idea.

This is a bog-standard device in a sea of similar SBC's. The entire magic here
is the price. Honestly, I don't even "believe" in the Pi zero yet. It could
still turn out to be a publicity stunt produced in a very limited quantity
just to get everyone talking.

Until its a product you buy a dozen at a time and leave behind in the projects
in your wake, the magic hasn't happened yet. Otherwise, you pull it out of
those projects because its a rare specimen you might not be able to get
another of any time soon. It doesn't matter if it only cost $9 if you can't
get any more of them.

But I _want_ to believe!

~~~
sixothree
I couldn't be more disappointed with Raspberry Pi regarding their availability
of the Zero. It's been four months since they announced "immediate
availability" and seemingly the only way you can get a $5 Pi is to buy a $40
bundle. If you can't buy it in numbers needed then it simply doesn't exist.

~~~
j1vms
Firstly, only kudos to them for having designed the Zero in the first place,
and I'm sure they intended it to be available in volume this many months after
release.

However, until they can reach volume on a major released project (e.g. the
Zero), they should be careful about getting too much press visibility on said
product. As of 2016, Raspberry Pi is world-wide name with international name
recognition, and it can only hurt the organization when its products marketed
at a $5 USD price point are, in practice, only really available at $40+ USD,
to the majority of its potential customers, and this many months after
release.

~~~
MarcScott
On the plus side - all the donations the Raspberry Pi Foundation received from
sales of the Zero helped fund a teacher training course that is being rolled
out across the United States.

~~~
j1vms
That is a indeed a plus. Indeed in the gparent comment I only wished to point
out 1 way in which the organization could improve should they wish. Getting
open source design part-sourced, assembled and then shipped in volume levels
is still a business process in nascency. I'm sure they face abundant
challenges on the supplier-side. Regardless, I do hope that against all odds,
volume manufactured open source hardware becomes a force to be reckoned with
in the decades to come - perhaps analogously to how FOSS Linux dominated in
its own and ever-expanding arena.

------
chime
Wow! Built-in Wifi + 4GB storage for $9? This changes the entire scope of my
repeatedly-postponed environmental monitoring project. I can wire a $10
temperature/humidity sensor and put 40-50 of these devices around the building
for $1k. I would easily pay $50 for a pre-made device that:

1) Is built using CHIP and has a simply case + power adapter

2) Is wired to
[https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10167](https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10167)

3) Has an easy Wifi setup process and does DHCP

4) Lets me do a GET [http://ip/status](http://ip/status) and gives me JSON of
the current temperature and humidity.

Then all I have to worry about is setting up a cron job that wgets all 50
devices and logs the result to DB.

FYI equivalent systems, even non-NIST-calibrated ones cost $500/device or
more.

~~~
gh02t
Not $50, you can do all of that with a $5 ESP8266. The CHIP is IMO enormously
overpowered for what you're describing. The ESPs can do HTTP/MQTT/etc directly
themselves, but I think an ideal use for the CHIP is as a hub with the ESP's
reporting sensor data and the CHIP logging data.

Also, as a warning from experience the DHT22's aren't that great and they have
been a headache. They are relatively expensive, not very precise and also I've
seen a huge variation in their manufacturing quality. The relative humidity
readings in particular are wildly inaccurate. There are better temperature
sensors that cost less than a dollar (DS18) and to get reliable humidity
readings you really need something nicer like the SHT-31.

~~~
djhworld
I'm always curious about these sorts of answers, because from an outsiders
perspective, you may as well be talking in another language.

From what I can tell the ESP8266 is some sort of wifi enabled...chip? That you
need to solder onto something or plug onto a breadboard, then you need an
arduino for some unstated reason. What is an arduino? how do you make these
two things interact? How do you provide power to these things? why are there
so many arduinos?

I think the advantage of these single board computers are they are a much
lower barrier to entry if you don't have that much knowledge of electronics,
but have more experience of navigating Linux systems and writing software.

~~~
kweks
The ESP8266 is actually a system on a board, too. Essentially, it's a tiny
microcontroller, with Wifi and a few GPIO connections, in a very small form
factor, for a very small price.

You don't need to solder it to anything (it already comes soldered on its own
board). You don't an external microcontroller to use it. It is standalone. It
is compatible with the 'Arduino'. The Arduino is a family of microcontrollers
built from the ground up to be easy to use. Easy to use software, easy to
program (Variant of C) - and more importantly, heaps of support and tutorials
online.

Honestly, the most difficult thing about using the ESP is powering and
programming it. It takes 3.3V - and only 3.3V, so finding an appropriate power
supply can be trickly. It programs over serial, so you need to use a USB >
serial module - $1.30 [1]

The modules themselves are super cheap: - $1.50 [0] There's a very strong
community behind the module:
[http://www.esp8266.com/](http://www.esp8266.com/)

Essentially: Don't be scared: there's an initial learning curve that is very
gentle, and you'll suddenly find unlimited uses for these tiny little modules.

I've got modules that show build statuses, affiliate account activity.. etc.

They also work, as mentioned, exceptionally well in a flock reporting to a
main system - which may be a CHIP system, Raspberry PI, OpenWRT router, etc.

[0] [http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-2pcs-lot-
ESP826...](http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-2pcs-lot-
ESP8266-remote-serial-Port-WIFI-wireless-module-through-walls-Wang-
ESP-12/32256161821.html) [1]
[http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB...](http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20160328010733&SearchText=FT232RL)

~~~
david-given
Technically the ESP8266 is a modular wifi controller, isn't it? That is, it's
one of those gadgets that's supposed to sit on a daughterboard and provide
wifi services with embedded TCP/IP stack to another microprocessor. (I hear.)
It just so happens that it's own processor is powerful enough and flexible
enough to be useful as a microprocessor in its own right.

I wonder what other common bits of electronics might have useful amounts of
processing power...

~~~
gvb
$50 (or less) WiFi enabled SD cards (intended for use in cameras to
automatically upload pictures) have an ARM processor running linux.

[http://haxit.blogspot.ch/2013/08/hacking-transcend-wifi-
sd-c...](http://haxit.blogspot.ch/2013/08/hacking-transcend-wifi-sd-
cards.html)

[http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Wi-Fi-Class-Memory-
TS32GWSDH...](http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-Wi-Fi-Class-Memory-
TS32GWSDHC10/dp/B00A659ILQ)

------
JoshuaJB
I have a friend who has one of these, and he's stopped using it entirely
because of unreliability. The WiFi performed poorly (e.g. in same room, on
same router, multi-second latency) and the radios seemed to crash to the point
of requiring a hard reset after a few days. Another thing he mentioned as an
annoyance (that may be fixed now) was that the power state can't be controlled
from software (e.g. shutdown -r will hang when it actually tells the hw to
power-cycle).

~~~
smitec
For what it's worth I have 2 and have yet to experience any need to hard reset
after roughly a week of being connected to the same network. I've also been
able to use shutdown -r without any issue. I used them as beacons to mock up
an indoor location app recently an they performed well during all of my
testing. YMMV but thats my 2c.

------
Artemis2
I backed their Kickstarter and I love them.

They have consistently delivered updates to backers and have always been on
schedule (they are even ahead of schedule now!). I'm not sure how they do it,
but they just solve problems.

Initially, the shipping cost for their Kickstarter was too high ($9 computer +
$20 shipping to Europe). They lowered shipping costs (to $14 for me) just
before the end of their Kickstarter. Even though I had the expectation of
paying $29 to get a C.H.I.P to my door, they let everyone use the difference
with what they paid to buy more boards or accessories, so I got two C.H.I.P.s
for $32 instead. [1]

They encountered issues with the CPU they planned on using, and had to replace
it with a bigger version that didn't fit the front of the board. They had to
put it on the back, and added small cases to everyone's orders so the
computers could lay flat as expected. [2]

The hardware and software initially had issues for some people. They quickly
released a simple flashing tool for Windows, OS X and Linux. For hardware
problems, they flat out offered to swap defective C.H.I.P.s. [3]

I've truly appreciated their level of professionalism and their customer
support work. The computer in itself is fine, and much more economical than
the Raspberry Pi (integrated networking capabilities).

[1] : [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-
wor...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-
first-9-computer/posts/1250255)

[2] : [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-
wor...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-
first-9-computer/posts/1428989)

[3] : [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-
wor...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-worlds-
first-9-computer/posts/1459547)

~~~
hutzlibu
Blame the bad world, if it isn't true, but your post feels a little bit like
paid enthusiasm...

~~~
FroshKiller
I agree with Artemis2. I also backed this project, and it has absolutely been
one the most well managed, communicative projects I've supported. I've been
very pleased.

------
febed
Just 9$ for a 1Ghz ARM processor, 512MB of RAM with integrated WiFi and
Bluetooth! At prices that cheap I would be super interested in a ultra cheap
mobile phone with e-ink display that last several weeks on a single charge.

~~~
LAMike
Solar powered would be a bonus

~~~
makomk
Well, it does have built-in support for a lithium ion battery, so if you can
figure out some way to hook it up to a solar panel...

Though I suspect there'd be practical issues with getting enough energy to
keep it charged.

------
riobard
The USB TTY idea is really nice!

~~~
Kadin
Yeah I would really like to see the Raspberry series integrate that feature.

~~~
sklogic
RPi got an SPI interface, which can be used with a standalone FTDI USB-to-SPI.

~~~
david-given
You don't even need that --- the RPi has got a proper TTL UART. Two, in fact,
although as you can only use one at a time that doesn't get you much. Any TTL
serial adapter will just plug straight in.

------
bdcravens
Has anyone priced out the components? How is $9 possible?

~~~
tyingq
>Has anyone priced out the components?

Yes. The BOM is well over $9. You could reasonably debate if it's $12, or $20,
or $15. But it's not less than $9. Not even with sweetheart deals all around.

Here's the BOM: [https://github.com/NextThingCo/CHIP-
Hardware/raw/master/CHIP...](https://github.com/NextThingCo/CHIP-
Hardware/raw/master/CHIP%5Bv1_0%5D/CHIP_v1_0_BOM_20151030.pdf)

The R8 CPU + 4GB NAND FLASH + 512M DDR3 alone would be close to $9. The
RTL8723 wifi/bt chip is at least a dollar. The rest is cheap individually, but
there's a lot of connectors, resistors, caps, etc. It adds up.

Also, the BOM doesn't include any of the costs for the PCB itself,assembly,
the employees, engineering time, etc.

>How is $9 possible?

Loss leader. Make it up in shipping and accessories.

Edit: Don't believe it? Enter your own prices here. I put in "sweetheart deal"
prices for the 4 items mentioned above, and assumed $0.01 unit cost for
everything else (which is not realistic). That unrealistic approach totals
$12.19.

[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HPjX9_H2NIkR4l1l34JT...](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HPjX9_H2NIkR4l1l34JTLuUn8sQYiyJYiyd4WmD6K7o/edit?usp=sharing)

So, if you're going to claim it's somehow less than $9, clone the spreadsheet,
update the prices, and show us how :) Oh, and throw in what you think the bare
PCB + assembly costs.

~~~
bdcravens
Makes sense. But how can a Kickstarted project be a loss leader? Or are they
bootstrapped, and using Kickstarter funds to subsidize loss?

~~~
tyingq
>>how can a Kickstarted project be a loss leader

Looks like some combination of padded shipping prices, plus sales of
accessories that appear to actually be priced above cost. (PocketChip, VGA,
HDMI, etc).

So, you can pledge for just a $9 CHIP, but they are subsidizing the losses
there with the other pledges + shipping margin.

------
chx
Our condo has an entryphone working over normal phone line. I really wanted
for a very long time a simple system which can a) authenticate via HTTPS b)
after auth, for a few minutes if someone (like me) rings the phone it would
answer the phone c) dials 6 to let me in. There is no dialtone or such
involved.

Most solutions I were able to find are ridiculously expensive compared to how
simple this ought to be. Now we have an adequately cheap computer ... is there
a modem you can drive from the GPIO? Or is that crazy.

~~~
Kliment
You can attach a USB modem to a SBC and go from there, that's probably the
simplest way to approach it.

The more complex way is to have an interface/isolation circuit using two GPIO
pins (one input for ring detection, one output that switches a relay into the
rest of the circuit and also takes the line off the hook). You then have a
single DAC or PWM output that plays the tone into the isolation transformer.
If you are interested in more info on this sort of thing, contact me.

~~~
chx
That's where the "ridiculously expensive" part kicks in: the only modems that
mention Linux support are 40+ USD. (Zoom 3095 etc)

~~~
tyingq
These $9/shipped generic USB modems worked on Linux for me:
[http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Adroit-New-
USB-56K-V-90-V-92-...](http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Adroit-New-
USB-56K-V-90-V-92-External-Dial-Up-Voice-Fax-Data-Modem-for/32604327115.html)

Not great quality, but it sounds like you just want to go off hook and send a
single DTMF tone. (ATH1, then ATD6). It should work fine.

~~~
chx
Thanks! I will need to figure out how to configure mgetty to do an ATDT6 on
dial.

~~~
tyingq
Sure. Looking at mgetty's man page, it looks like you would want to

a) Disable Auto Answer on the modem, manually: ATS0=0

b) Set the "answer-chat" setting in mgetty to send the ATH1 then ATDT6

I imagine you'll also have tons of errors, since no actual modem-to-modem data
connection will ever get established in this scenario. So maybe some options
to suppress all that.

------
MaggieL
Java? Scala? Yes, please. See my slide deck from NEScala at
[https://goo.gl/2t5hBX](https://goo.gl/2t5hBX)

------
bsharitt
I don't do preorders, but I'd like to pick one of these up if/when they ever
become generally available. I guess the storage/bluetooth/wife are worth the
extra $4 over the Pi Zero, and the USB TTY be default is handy too.

------
webXL
Gotta love the guy who chimed in with "The worst part of the CHIP is the GPU,
which is more than trash."

Phewww! I almost spent a whopping $9 on a tiny computer that cannot process
media as well as computers 50x more expensive and 10x as big. I'll just wait
until those shrink down and cost the same so I only ever need to buy one
computer for all my projects.

------
hinkley
Maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like the big inflection point with these single
board computers will really come when they have PCI express slots on them.

There's a whole bunch you can do with peripherals and networking over PCIe
that would make those chips useful for a new set of situations.

~~~
aidenn0
Other than graphics, is there anything available over PCIe that isn't
available over USB?

~~~
wtallis
Just because you _can_ do it over USB doesn't mean you should. PCIe gets you
more bandwidth and vastly better latency, and the peripherals that use PCIe
tend to be higher quality and have better drivers than their USB competition.
Just compare any USB NIC against Intel Ethernet or Atheros WiFi, or NVMe and
AHCI devices against the mess that is UASP. You can't build a decent router or
NAS around USB devices.

(And DisplayLink offers graphics over USB, but it's so bad that in almost any
other context it should be regarded as _not counting_.)

~~~
greglindahl
DisplayLink has a large number of customers, so obviously it works well enough
for a lot of use-cases. I've used it for status displays, and the additional
monitors that most engineers like to have. I can't even remember which one of
the two monitors in my home office is DisplayLink. I'd imagine that I'd notice
if I tried to play a game...

------
vessenes
Those are compelling. I am lusting after the wire friendly gpio mounts from
the picture, too.

------
tmaly
I ordered mine last year. It was the first purchase I ever made on
kickstarter. I went with the VGA adapter, but it seems everything is HDMI
these days. Everything is still back ordered, but I am excited to see what
this system can do.

------
edgarvm
Looks very interesting, too bad they don't accept paypal

