
Tipping Is Coming to Uber - petethomas
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/tipping-is-coming-to-uber-and-it-s-going-to-be-awkward
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twreactistricky
Tipping is an awful and awkward practice that shouldn't ever be encouraged. I
found I was way happier about paying for any kind of service in parts of the
world where tipping isn't expected or even frowned on. Pay your employees
properly. If you are self employed, roll gratuity into the fee for your
service.

This is taking one of the best things about Uber and Uber-like services away.
Ignoring the surge pricing BS, I don't have to keep an eye on the meter, I
don't have to argue with the driver about the fare, I don't have to worry
about the tip, I don't need cash on hand, etc.

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GreaterFool
I agree. Tipping is a terrible practice. Also, Uber drivers receive ratings. I
can already see that drivers asking for tips would probably get lower ratings.
That's not going to end well.

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jfarmer
Riders receive ratings, too.

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GreaterFool
Then it's all out war in the making. Suppose one takes a ride and the driver
strikes a conversation about tips and how they're essential and so on. And the
passenger doesn't tip. Then the passenger can assume the driver will give him
low rating. So in return the passenger will give the driver _really_ low
rating.

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marssaxman
This was one of Uber's big advantages over the old cab system. Tipping is
archaic and bizarre and ought to be eliminated in favor of fair, predictable
wages and a client/service provider relationship which does not involve a
faux-Victorian status hierarchy.

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thedudemabry
Yeah, I've personally overlooked Uber's most unfortunate PR crises because
darn, it's convenient to not pay a tip. But if that slim advantage goes away,
I'm back to the same decision matrix that made me dislike taxis.

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rootlocus
I see tipping as an excuse for an employer to pay lower salaries to it's
employees, essentially shifting the burden to the client. It's an uncivilized
practice. As someone said previously: "Pay your employees properly!" please.

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mgo
It incentivizes them to do a great job and please the customer.

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jamesknelson
That depends on what you mean by "great service". As an Australian living in
Japan, I was unfamiliar with tipping until a recent trip to the US. And the
thing that surprised me even more than the bizarre idea of me having the power
to underpay a worker despite them doing a perfectly good job (that would be
illegal in other countries), would be the idea of "great service". Apparently
in the US, great service consists of being nagged constantly to remind you
that he server exists and needs a tip. Great sevice in Japan however means
leave me the fuck alone and let me enjoy my meal in peace.

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ghaff
>Apparently in the US, great service consists of being nagged constantly to
remind you that he server exists and needs a tip.

It really doesn't. It means that my water gets refilled, you don't mess up the
order, you're there when I have a problem, want to order dessert, want my
check, etc. I can't speak for everyone but if I have to eventually ask someone
else to find you to get me my check--that's when tips go down, not because you
weren't pestering me constantly.

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reustle
I've been out of the states for 1.5 years and have gotten totally comfortable
with how most of the world doesn't tip. Please don't force it on me again.

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simonswords82
Yep, I absolutely adore the states it's one of my favourite places but as
somebody from the UK by the time I leave I'm always glad to be leaving behind
the tipping mentality.

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SilasX
>In any case, they argued that Uber shouldn’t take a cut of the portion of the
fare that was classified as a tip.

It getting that "am I the only sane one?" feeling from the fact that this even
became a court case. There are _arbitrarily many_ fare breakdowns, all
observationally equivalent, into "uncut tip", "driver's cut", and "Uber's"
cut. You can equally well say that a $10 fare was:

A) $2 tip, $8 fare that Uber takes a $2 cut from, or

B) No tip, $10 fare that Uber took a $2 cut from.

Either way, the driver gets $8 and Uber gets $2. When you have no choice and
Uber never itemizes a tip amount, it's equally right to say that Uber was
taking 25% after a mandatory 25% tip (framing A) or that Uber was taking 20%
from an untipped amount (framing B) or anything in between.

There is literally no "fact of the matter" as to which portion is a "tip" Uber
is taking a cut from, and even if there were, Uber could reframe it in the
light of any injunction so that the payment flows and fares are the same.

So people basically went to court over whether eggs must be labeled as "six"
or a "half dozen". Wha?

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imgabe
The main reason I liked Uber was the lack of tipping. You summon a car, go
where you're going, get out and the fare is paid automatically. It's a
perfectly seemless process. We've injected tips into so many transactions that
it was refreshing to have one where I didn't have to try and guess what the
"real" price is.

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original_idea
Just don't tip? I never do with Lyft.

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imgabe
Yeah, I probably won't. If they add a "tip" field to the app though it's going
to be expected. I avoid lyft specifically for this reason.

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danieltillett
So uber is recreating the taxi system with all its warts. I can't wait for
stage 3 where they lobby for local regulations and licensing limiting
competition.

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SilasX
And stage 4 where they introduce "UberHand", which doesn't require an app;
instead, you just wave down one of their yellow-car "driver partners" and pay
them in cash. Like:

[http://uberhand.weebly.com](http://uberhand.weebly.com)

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mikevm
Why should I tip? All the driver's doing is following his GPS to the
destination.

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thex10
Seems like you haven't had any exceptional drivers!

I've had drivers on Uber-like services offer water, mints, candy, magazines to
read. Definitely makes the experience more pleasant, but adds to the driver's
overhead cost. I could see tipping to subsidize that.

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dpflan
"The company said it has no plans to add an option to tip through its app or
to lower the cost of fares under the assumption people will always leave tips
voluntarily."

Uber just settled that cash tips are OK, but they obviously want this to die
quickly if they have no plans to integrate tipping into the application and
hence the experience like Lyft. If having a "great experience" is core to
Uber, I'm sure that the confusion and behavior change now that drivers can ask
for tips will negatively affect people's experiences, result in lower ratings,
and Uber can flag such drivers (maybe customers) as having a rating below a
certain threshold and drop them (?). But keeping driver supply seems
important...

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erikb
One of the major reasons Chinese taxi drivers prefer Didi to Uber is that they
can get tips. So I think that's a huge move in the right direction. Finding a
driver on a Friday evening is free market jungle at its finest. This way at
least you have options.

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olalonde
What? I lived in China for five years, took Didi many times and never heard of
anyone tipping taxi drivers except in rare occasions. The few times I tried to
tip drivers they were offended or thought I was joking (unless they weren't
using the meter). The reason Chinese taxi drivers prefer Didi is that Uber has
virtually no market share in China.

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erikb
Well then you must have been in another China than me. In the China I went to
you won't even get a taxi in a busy time if you don't start the taxi search
with a tip.

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shalmanese
It's not a tip, it's a bounty. And it only applies to taxi drivers, AFAIK.
Ridesharing drivers are on the same surge pricing style system that uber uses.

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randomname2
Interestingly Kalanick's statement on the settlement that forces the tipping
notification does not contain any reference to that part of it:

"Today we announced a settlement in two important class-action lawsuits:
O’Connor (California) and Yucesoy (Massachusetts). The key issue at stake in
both cases is whether drivers using the Uber app should be classified as
independent contractors or employees.

As part of this settlement, which covers all classification claims involving
Uber in California and Massachusetts, the two sides have agreed that:

* Drivers will remain independent contractors, not employees;

* Uber will pay $84 million to the plaintiffs. There will be a second payment of $16 million if Uber goes public and our valuation increases one and a half times from our December 2015 financing valuation within the first year of an IPO;

* Uber will provide drivers with more information about their individual rating and how it compares with their peers. Uber will also introduce a policy explaining the circumstances under which we ban drivers in these states from using the app; and

* We will work together to create a driver’s association in both states. Uber will help fund these two associations and meet them quarterly to discuss the issues that matter most to drivers.

Six years ago when Uber first started in San Francisco, it was easy to
communicate with the handful of drivers using the app. Austin Geidt, who ran
marketing, called each one regularly to get their feedback and make sure
things were working well. It was clear from those early conversations that
drivers really valued the freedom Uber offered.

Today, while the number of drivers using our app has grown dramatically, their
reasons for doing so haven’t changed. In the U.S. almost 90 percent say they
choose Uber because they want to be their own boss. Drivers value their
independence — the freedom to push a button rather than punch a clock, to use
Uber and Lyft simultaneously, to drive most of the week or for just a few
hours.

That’s why we are so pleased that this settlement recognizes that drivers
should remain as independent contractors, not employees. As one driver told
the court: “I’ve been an employee and an employer, and I’ve also been an
independent contractor. I know the difference between these things. With Uber,
I’m an independent contractor. And I wouldn’t have it any other way.” As
another said: “I wouldn’t even want to be an Uber employee. I would quit if
they tried to make me an employee, because I value my freedom as an
independent contractor too much.”

That said, as Uber has grown — over 450,000 drivers use the app each month
here in the U.S. — we haven’t always done a good job working with drivers. For
example, we don’t have a policy explaining when and how we bar drivers from
using the app, or a process to appeal these decisions. At our size that’s not
good enough. It’s time to change.

So today we’ve published a driver deactivation policy for the first time. It
will apply across the United States, and our goal is to roll out similar
policies globally over time. You can read it in English, Spanish, Mandarin and
Arabic, with more languages to follow.

It’s incredibly important that when people use Uber, they have a great
experience — one that is safe, reliable, convenient and a good value.
Otherwise, fewer passengers will use the app over time, which is bad for
everyone. The policy explains why drivers are deactivated, the warnings we
give and the circumstances in which drivers can use the app again.

Sometimes it’s clear that a driver shouldn’t be allowed on our platform: we
permanently ban drivers who are violent, drink and drive, or refuse someone a
ride because of the color of their skin or sexual orientation (it happens,
sadly). But what if a driver’s rating declines due to poor driving or a smelly
car? (And it’s not just bad smells that cause problems — we do get complaints
about too much Febreze.) In those cases we let the driver know that there’s an
issue and, if things don’t improve, we deactivate their account. We’re also
working with a number of companies to provide affordable quality improvement
courses.

As part of this settlement, Uber has agreed not to deactivate drivers who
regularly decline trips when they are logged into the app. If too many drivers
decline the rides we send their way, it undermines the reliability of the
service for riders. But we understand that drivers need breaks, and sometimes
things come up — maybe a kid has gotten sick at school. When drivers aren’t
available, we’d just ask they turn off the app. And where drivers do have low
acceptance rates — perhaps because they are multitasking at home — we will
alert them to the issue. If things don’t pick up, we may log them out of the
app for a limited period of time.

Uber has become an important part of many drivers’ lives, whether they drive
all week or for a couple of hours to help pay the bills. So we’ve agreed to
create an appeals process in California and Massachusetts for drivers who
disagree with these decisions. In fact, we’ve been working on a pilot in
Seattle for the last few months, which includes having other drivers hear
these appeals. Our hope is that this kind of peer review process will improve
transparency and accountability and give drivers an additional voice. If this
approach is successful, we’ll look at rolling it out across the U.S.

Uber is a new way of working: it’s about people having the freedom to start
and stop work when they want, at the push of a button. As we’ve grown we’ve
gotten a lot right — but certainly not everything. This new deactivation
policy is an important step forward when it comes to working with drivers. But
there’s more to do, which is why I’m excited about some other improvements we
have planned for the not too distant future. Stay tuned." [1]

[1] [https://medium.com/@UberPubPolicy/growing-and-growing-
up-6ba...](https://medium.com/@UberPubPolicy/growing-and-growing-
up-6ba229682a8)

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twoodfin
Presumably because they (rightly, IMHO) think it's a terrible idea for their
service, brand, and customers & would like to keep it from becoming a norm.

