

Ask HN: Should I get U.S. citizenship? - mannicken

Gentlemen,<p>I'm a permanent resident and I have green card. I was born in Russia but lived my whole life in Ukraine. My parents had Ukrainian passport but no more as they have naturalized. I was over 18 so I didn't naturalize with them. So, I don't really have any passport of any country.<p>Should I start applying for U.S. passport? I'm sort of scared of being deported for something, is that a valid reason for getting a passort?
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frossie
Absolutely yes - if you are a permanent resident and have held your green card
for at least 5 years (the qualifying period) you should apply for citizenship.
The reason is that a green card is not permanent; you lose it when you leave
the country for a year or more. So if, for example, you got a consulting gig
in Russia for a couple of years and then wanted to come back to the US, your
previous green card would not be valid and you would have to start from
scratch.

If you can afford it, there is really no reason not to, even if you didn't
have the additional complications with unclear other citizenships.

The only people who should be careful about applying for US citizenship are
those from countries (like Japan) who are barred from having dual
citizenships; otherwise if you can afford it, it is frankly a no-brainer.

Plus, if you are a citizen you can vote. I don't know about you, but living
and paying taxes in a country where I don't have the right to vote kinda
drives me crazy.

I am not a lawyer, but look on the bright side, my opinion was free.

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laut
Is it really a no brainer? You have to pay US taxes even if you leave the
country. But if you are sure you are going to live there for the rest of your
life I guess that won't make any difference.

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potatolicious
If you are a citizen you can apply for non-residency. I believe the rule is
that if you are out of the country for >= 181 days of the calendar year, you
may apply to be income-tax exempt on those portions earned outside the USA.

~~~
rdl
It's the "foreign earned income exclusion", and it's only the first $91k
exempted from US tax (plus a housing allowance, with some restrictions). To
get it, you need a "bona fide foreign residence" or 330 days/yr out of the US.
I'm actually going to spend the last few months of 2009 on vacation, using the
savings in taxes to pay for it, since I'll be out 9-10 months in 2009 just for
work.

The first 91k is basically 18k in taxes at current rates. They unfortunately
changed it from LAST 91k (i.e. the income at your highest marginal rate,
easily 33% or 35%) in 2006, at the same time as making it inflation adjusted).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusion>

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cptrfsn
My situation is very similar, I'm on green card here as well. The only
difference is that I actually have valid Russian passport, so can go back
there whenever I want.

After careful consideration of my personal situation I have decided to pass on
citizenship. At least for now. There are just too few benefits. I don't think
I'll get deported, I don't care about voting (electoral college would make my
vote in presidential elections a lot less relevant in my state), I don't want
to do jury duty, I don't want to pay exit tax should I decide to leave the
country.

When they decide to rip me off with taxes (and I already paid millions), I'll
just say "thanks, but no thanks" and move to HK or Singapore. :)

~~~
eugenejen
I think after you have green card, they will track down you for exit tax as
citizen on tax.

One difference is if you marry a non U.S. woman. then you need to put her on
waiting list for 5 years before she can come to U.S. because you are only a
permanent resident. But since you have paid millions of taxes. I guess you are
rich enough if this happens to do things in alternative way such as EB-5 for
her.

~~~
cptrfsn
I'm pretty sure that exit tax is for citizens only. They'll have a hard time
tracking down non-citizens and no leverage, except for threatening to revoke
the green card and/or restrict entry into the US.

The marriage thing is a very good point.

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bwd
One thing that you must keep in mind is that if you get sick of high US taxes
(and they only seem to be going higher) and you want to move someplace like
Hong Kong, you will still need to pay US taxes, and you will even be forced to
continue to pay them for 10 years if you decide to give up your citizenship.

~~~
astrec
That's the theory anyway. In practise a good accountant will reduce your US
tax burden to practically zero.

~~~
yangyang
And you'll pay him handsomely for the privilege.

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terpua
With issues of this magnitude, talk to an immigration lawyer.

~~~
OperaLover
Or at least to an immigrant-rights center. There's sure to be one in any major
U.S.

I remember in grad school I went to testify for my advisor (Korean-born), and
they wanted to know that he really was married to his wife, and related
nonsense (she also immigrated from Korea and they'd been married for 10
years).

In any case, there's obviously a lot of power to U.S. citizenship: not the
least being the ability not to be deported to a homeland that is subject to
vagaries of the latest dictatorial "democratic" government (reference to
Russia, not Ukraine).

Best of luck.

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IgorCarron
You first need to be naturalized and then you can apply for a U.S. passport,
but I am sure you knew that.

At the very least, you owe it to yourself to have a passport. In the meantime,
you should to be asking one from the Russians as you ought to be or are still
a citizen of that country.

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zavulon
I was in a same boat as you are, and I think it comes down to being whether
you feel grateful to this country or not.

In my experience, living in former Soviet Union was hell. It was, still is,
and always will be a shithole, with about 95% of population idiot racist
alcoholics.

So for me, when faced with an opportunity to get an American passport, I was
more than happy to do that. I feel that voting, paying taxes and doing jury
duty is the least I can do to give back to the greatest country in the world,
that gave me an opportunity to make the life for me and my family permanently
better.

Of course, that's my opinion and you should do whatever you feel like.

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mahmud
Yes, but apply from Canada, just in case ;-)

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abstractbill
My wife and I joke that we collect passports and citizenships. So far we have
UK, FR and US.

I don't have US citizenship, as my wife has that one (I have a Green Card).
But if I wasn't married to a citizen, and had no passport at all, I would
probably become a citizen.

It sounds like you must still be a Russian citizen too - ask them for a
passport.

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jacquesm
There is some ambiguity in your question:

Are you scared of 'being deported for something that you've done' or are you
scared of being deported for 'something unspecified at some point in the
future' ? There is a huge difference between the two.

If the former then in some cases being deported is better than having to
stay...

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ErrantX
Being an "immigrant" makes the passport issue a bit more important - but don't
forget something like 60% of US citizens don't have one either (IIRC).

