
Apple promises maps app will 'improve' - marklabedz
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19672981
======
archangel_one
"as Maps is a cloud-based solution, the more people use it, the better it will
get."

That's a nice non sequitur, but doesn't really answer how they're going to
solve this problem. They say they're working hard on it, but the scale of the
data here means that you can have people working hard for months and not fix
even 1% of the errors. "The cloud" isn't going to magically solve them itself.

~~~
taligent
Pretty simple. Apple can do what Google does. Buy/license data from third
parties.

You didn't think Google created all of it did you ?

~~~
hyperbovine
Google Maps is seven years old. Do you really think people are going to wait
around until 2019 for Apple to fix this?

This is a rare but genuine example of (the modern) Apple completely fucking
up; it surprises me that some people are so unwilling to acknowledge the fact.

~~~
jarcoal
It won't take 7 years to make another mapping solution. Google took that long
because they had to blaze a lot of new trails that Apple can conveniently
learn from.

------
talkingquickly
"and as Maps is a cloud-based solution, the more people use it, the better it
will get"

Based on what I've read about the problems and their causes so far, usage
volume doesn't seem to addresses any of the problems except for increasing the
likelihood errors will be spotted.

The fundamental problems seem to be around the way multiple data sources have
been combined and in its current form I can't see how usage volume would
improve this in any way??

It may well contribute to POI data and so make it 'better' but that isn't
really what the complaints are about.

~~~
jws
The only problem I see here in the middle of the US is the sparse and wrong
POI data. The tools to report fixes are on the Maps app already. If they have
an automated system for processing these it could be fixed very quickly.

People should remember that Google has that POI data because the crowd entered
and maintained it. The same dynamic will work for Apple.

Mass transit isn't an issue here, but I hope they get it to work before I go
to Manhattan again.

~~~
taligent
Actually most of Google's POI data comes from established companies e.g.
Yellow Pages.

For whatever reason Apple has chosen not to seek out the same partnerships.
Maybe they will get round to it. Maybe they are hoping for a true crowdsourced
solution.

~~~
jws
My business locations didn't show on Google until I entered them myself.

That was years ago though, so things may have changed.

The darker side of crowdsourcing: My tenant didn't show up on Google maps
until someone entered them, apparently just so they could then attach a really
angry negative review stemming from a bad experience with a different company
that was infringing my tenants trademark in order to steal customers. Good
luck getting that kind of mess out of Google.

------
glesica
The interesting question here, to me anyway, is whether this whole debacle is
a sign of a real problem at Apple, or whether it was just an "oops" (like the
iPhone antenna).

The conventional wisdom (for the past decade or so) has been that Apple
doesn't release "beta" products. Google and MS do, but not Apple. However,
this is clearly such a product (they must have known it wasn't as good as what
it was replacing).

So either Apple is changing (which would be understandable, but still
interesting) or this was just an error in judgment somewhere in the chain of
command (which itself would be a real change, at least from the Jobs era).

~~~
taligent
Or (c) you actually don't know as much about Apple as you think. Apple has
routinely released 1.0 products that contained major flaws in one way or
another.

It's just that Apple polishes those flaws so they aren't as glaring. And
they've been doing this since the very beginning of Steve Jobs' second reign
i.e. OSX.

~~~
rmc
_It's just that Apple polishes those flaws so they aren't as glaring._

Actually, I'd say one of the things is that Apple often release radically new
things, so yes there are bugs, but it's so new and different, with much other
advantages, that people overlook the bugs, or comparing it with existing
offerings is an apples & oranges comparison.

In this case, maps like Apple are releasing are not new. We've had Google Maps
et al. for years, so people have come to know what a maps app can do. Apple's
offering is not radically different from Google Maps, there's nothing new
here. It's completely fair to compare Apple's Maps with OSM or Google Maps,
and in that comparison Apple is far behind/

------
nicholassmith
Here's the thing, despite the relentless mockery and snappy tumblrs (which is
pretty funny) the Maps app will get better, and probably quickly. Google Maps
haven't always been awesome, where I lived about 2 years ago wouldn't show up
on GMaps as it thought it was a building site.

Apple had a choice, no maps or some maps. I've been running the GM for a week
or so now, and I can say over the course of a week the search and directions
quality has improved noticeably in my area of England. I know it sucks they've
crippled it but we can either complain about it, or report the errors and hope
Apple iterates _fast_ on it.

------
dev_tty01
Press "Report a Problem" just above the Print button and report the issue to
get it fixed. This is a better response than all the whining. Google Maps had
many, many issues not long ago and they did get things cleaned up. Same
situation here. I am finding Apple Maps to be very solid, but I did notice a
small issue, which I reported.

------
tomkin
One day Apple apologists will have to draw a line in the sand – does Apple
care more about users, or more about ego-laden competitive angst? When Apple
limits people – they do it for business, when they allow freedom they are
doing it for the users.

Sorry, but ripping out a familiar, tried and true application and replacing it
with one far inferior is not _for the users_. It would be different if they
had been more diplomatic and said to Google, "we're doing our own stuff, so,
maybe you want to launch at the same time so people won't be all pissed off
with our version 1.0?". That would be _for the users_ and Apple could still
have their own Maps and improve it beyond Google's capabilities within time.
People would switch because it was better.

I have all Apple products, but as a fan I sit on the fence when the logic
doesn't make sense.

~~~
Judson
The thing is, we just don't know what the circumstances were. If you want, you
can assume that Apple was the one who pulled the plug on Google's Maps app,
but the same thing happened with the YouTube app, and wouldn't you know,
Google released a new YouTube app through the app store, _with ads_.

A version of the story, that is at least as likely as Apple taking away
Maps.app (which could arguable be the most used non-telephone app on the
iPhone) and replacing it with something that isn't as good - Google wanted to
put ads in the app, something more than "sponsored pins" or whatever they had
been doing (aka, display ads).

~~~
tomkin
It's true to say that my version of the story is probably not accurate in any
sense. My main point is that Apple has pulled the rug away from it's users.
YouTube is a great point, too. I upgraded iOS and all of a sudden it was gone.
No "oh, by the way you totally gotta download this app manually now if you
want it".

If Google is making crazy demands, then they need to be outed. The company
that does no evil shouldn't mind disclosing the parameters of their licensing.
I can accept Apple's version of Maps with an explanation. As a paying user of
their ecosystem, I deserve an answer as to why I have been given something
inferior. Telling me to keep quiet, or wait for some milestone isn't good
enough.

------
cfontes
That's obvious it cannot get any worst than it is now.

This new map app was such a lame move that I cannot understand how did apple
shipped the iOS6 with it, if you have a nice person you can call it an early
Beta.

------
hcarvalhoalves
What a lof of drama. Apple knows the maps they use now are inferior, that's
obvious.

The point is: their contract with Google ended and they had to come up with
_something_. I find it interesting how everybody is blaming Apple when the
core issue is that Google retains a monopoly on cartography data. If you
wanted to create anything with a map you would be on the mud too, since Google
doesnt contribute to OSM.

What will probably happen is that Google will release their own map, with ads.
Tge same situation of the YouTube app.

------
kabdib
I wonder if we're starting to see the "absence of Steve" effect?

As in, "Well, it wasn't okay before, but we've fixed a lot of stuff, and ...",
and the filters that would have prevented it from shipping are losing their
effectiveness.

It's easy to be blind about the quality of your project, or get ship-fever and
think that you /have/ to get it out the door by (insert date here) or the End
of the World will occur.

Then again, it might have gone out anyway. Who knows?

~~~
melling
Probably not, but "the absence of Steve" effect will be brought up for years
to come any time Apple stumbles. Steve stumbled too.

------
masklinn
Duh? Couldn't exactly get worse now could it?

------
Tichy
"working hard to make the customer experience even better"

A fine example of Apple speech.

~~~
roam
Seriously? Nine out of ten companies will turn "make it suck less" into "make
it even better". Apple dropped the ball, Apple does some very questionable
things, but please stop this idiotic bashing, whether it's targeting Apple,
Microsoft, Google or even RIM. Just stop it.

~~~
Tichy
How about a straight "we will fix it"? Maybe it is Marketing 101, but I found
it noteworthy how consequently Apple executes it.

------
friendly_chap
I guess what else could they say.

