
Reinventing Firefox for Android - mncolinlee
https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2019/06/27/reinventing-firefox-for-android-a-preview/
======
godelski
To any Mozilla/Firefox developer reading this. I try to convert people to
Firefox. The number one reason people switch, by far, is because mobile has
add on support. So I say to push this front and center in marketing (I know
this is a preview). People are reluctant to switch their desktop browser
because chrome pretty much has the same features. But it they switch their
mobile browsers they also switch their desktops to take advantage of the full
feature suite.

And to anyone trying to convert your friends "mobile supports ublock" is
usually all I have to say.

Edit:unblock == uBlock Origin (sorry, on my phone)

~~~
mncolinlee
We're certainly aware of how significant ad blocking extensions are. This
release required a great quantity of features with only a six month timeline
until now.

We already support a very limited set of the WebExtensions API to offer
features like Reader Mode. Rest assured that more features will land in the
coming months.

If you're a developer and you want to help us, our Github site is at this
link. We mark easier issues with a Good First Issue label. We also need help
with translations, documentation, and even getting issues filed.

[https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix](https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix)

~~~
zamalek
The hard work you guys put in is always appreciated, FF in all its forms has
become truly the best browser there is. That being said, how on earth was
Reader Mode prioritized above adblocking?

As it stands, adblocking is "post MVP"[1][2]. QR code scanning, however, is
somehow part of the MVP. This doesn't make sense to me: there are many apps
that launch the default system browser when scanning a URL QR code. You can
_easily_ get by without that functionality in the browser.

The comments in this post should be sending you really loud signal: technical
users (the type of people who install preview software) don't consider a
browser without adblocking MVP. You are drastically underestimating the
significance of adblocking extensions.

[1]: [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/96](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/96)
[2]: [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/2622](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/2622)
[3]: [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/113](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/113)

~~~
giancarlostoro
When Chrome first came out I stopped using it cause it didnt have adblock.
Then when it did it was still crippled and I realized Google is in the Ad
business so I never used Chrome since. This is very correct adblocking is a
necessity, if they even include a Mozilla Adblocking DNS server for the
browser thats fine to me. As long as I dont see ads.

I wont give up on Firefox anytime soon. I would love to see some serious
competitors though.

~~~
hdfbdtbcdg
I don't want my browser ignoring my DNS settings!

~~~
giancarlostoro
I would assume it would be opt-in if they went with this.

------
bombledmonk
I just switched to the current Android Firefox a few weeks ago and I must say
I find it very hard to go back to Chrome. uBlock and Dark Reader make the
phone browsing experience a remarkable amount more pleasant.

Chrome's general UI interaction is definitely more polished and snappier all
around, but browsing mobile with good ad blocking, and not getting blasted in
the face by stark white pages more than covers for Firefox's warts.

~~~
eco
It should probably be noted that this Firefox Preview they are announcing
doesn't yet have Add-On support.

But I agree, uBlock Origin makes the mobile web far less painful. Also, I'll
point out that you want to be using uBlock Origin, not uBlock. As I recall,
Raymond Hill (the creator of uBlock) decided to hand over uBlock Firefox to
one of the contributors to offload some of the maintenance burden but then the
new owner immediately started trying to monetize it which prompted him to
create uBlock Origin.

~~~
rando9297
Last time I checked, Raymond Hill's website didn't even have a donation
button. This is an incredibly generous stance for him to take but if he
doesn't want money himself maybe he could collect funds for a charity. I
really feel I owe someone for this software.

~~~
Qub3d
Raymond outlines his reasons for refusing donations on the ublock wiki, if
anyone is curious: [https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Why-don't-you-
accept-...](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Why-don't-you-accept-
donations%3F)

One thing he (rightfully) points out is that the real power of ad-blocking
solutions comes from the community-maintained blocking lists. In _theory_ one
could manually block every url they run across, but in practice we can use
these tools (or a tool like pi-hole) almost effortlessly.

~~~
matz1
Can't he just accept donations while also maintaining the same 'no
expectation' attitude ?

Isn't it what donation is ?

~~~
gruez
on the other hand, political "donations"

~~~
matz1
Or just simply called donation

------
kace91
I'm aware that I'm reaching a Cartago-delenda-est situation here, but since I
see some mozilla devs here I must ask: Is there any news about the deal
breaker bugs that are still keeping thousands of people from moving to firefox
on OSX?

I'm referring to the bugs that cause extreme CPU usage and as a consequence
extreme heating and battery usage, mainly on macbooks with retina screens set
to "more space" resolution.

I work in a whole building full of developers where every single mac user has
stopped using firefox due to this issue, yet there seems to be a deep
disconnection between how prevalent the issue is and the priority it seems to
be assigned.

I hope I'm not coming off as an ass here, I'm just sad that I've had to move
away from firefox and to see all my coworkers also moving to chrome.

~~~
hliyan
That's odd. I'm on a 2015 MBP with Mojave, and I recently switched from Chrome
to Firefox because Chrome started causing intermitted freezes (even the mouse
pointer wouldn't move). I've been on Firefox (and Safari) for over a week now.
No issues.

~~~
kace91
Do you have your MBP screen's resolution set to "more space" on system
preferences -> displays? Are you using an external monitor for FF?

(Just curious about how your setup differs from mine)

------
abdulmuhaimin
I dont envy Mozilla. The demographic that they're targeting are really hard to
please.

~~~
lucideer
You're probably right but, as a member of that demographic:

\- I use Firefox, and have done continuously for a long time. I don't intend
to switch to anything else, despite being very unhappy with the experience in
many ways, as I consider it to be the "least worst"

\- I genuinely believe there are very easily achievable low-hanging fruit that
Mozilla could implement that would at least please a large swathe of their
target demographic. Namely, not talking about privacy and then slapping Google
tracking into everything they do. I understand that there's a revenue stream
there, and a balance to be met between economic survival and ideal conditions,
but this particilar issue is a deal tipped too far towards defying the point
of the exercise.

Perhaps I'm in a bubble and this is just my "single issue", but shouting about
privacy and sending all that data about their users to Google seems a fairly
large deal to me.

~~~
amenod
> ...and then slapping Google tracking into everything they do...

Huh, I must have missed that - if true, this is a _huge_ breach of trust for
me. Do you have a link?

~~~
Certhas
Until it's provided I would assume that it's a gross
misrepresentation/exaggeration.

~~~
lucideer
Other than putting Google Analytics on all Mozilla properties as sibling
commenters have already mentioned (link to info on that here [0]), there is
also the following:

\- as I mentioned in another comment, Firefox Preview comes with Google as a
default search engine (not a huge issue) and with "search suggestions" enabled
by default (which sends everything you ever type to Google).

\- Even if you disable search suggestions (or change provider), Firefox has a
built-in feature called "Google Safe Browsing" which collates every URL you
visit and sends bulk reports to Google. This feature is only disable-able via
the "here be dragons" about:config area.

\- then there's Google Location Services, which sends your WiFi router SSID,
SSIDs of routers in range, and hardware details, to Google. This is less clear
cut as Mozilla's use of this service has been on-off over time, and varies per
device. See[1]

[0] [https://www.mozilla.org/en-
US/privacy/websites/](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/websites/)

[1]
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1512161](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1512161)

~~~
amenod
Thanks for the clarification - this is all acceptable in my eyes then. Of
course I never use Google Search (prefer Qwant, StartPage and DDG) and
location services are _never_ running in my browser. Safe Browsing - I prefer
not to have it enabled, but it's not such a risk if it is.

This is quite a different thing from using Chrome(-ish browsers) with the
"phone home".

~~~
lucideer
Exactly.

This is what it comes down to: I still use Firefox confidently despite being
aware of these issues, as I'm aware they're still very minor compared to
running Chrome, or even any other Google-engine-based project.

It's still however worthwhile probing these issues. They're still far from
ideal, even if they're preferable as a "least worst" option.

------
thisisitnownow
I have been using Firefox on Android since 2013. It's been constantly
improving. I am so glad that it exists so that I am not forced to use a
browser (Chrome) that doesn't respect me or my privacy and has every incentive
to fuck me over.

~~~
lucb1e
I used it in 2013 and found it constantly degrading with each update. They
removed a major feature to reflow text to fit your screen nicely, worsened the
UI, and other things I don't remember anymore. After using an old version for
a while, I tried another browser, and _holy crap_ that was 10 times faster as
well as being customizable the way I was used to from Firefox desktop. Not
open source, not as featureful (no add-ons), but that was so much better.
Since then I switched to Lightning: even fewer features, but open source, very
lightweight, and great UX.

Whenever I raised issues with Mozilla about things that degraded, it was
always either talking to a brick wall or a wontfix. They made the decision
based on one person complaining about it being the old way, implemented the
change, and no matter that other people liked the old way, it wouldn't be
changed back or made configurable.

I then tried to compile Firefox for Android myself and cherry pick only
security updates, but that was enough of a pain in the ass that I gave up on
it.

~~~
Grumbledour
Interesting point about reflowing text: Why don't browsers reflow text on
mobile when zooming the same way they do on the desktop? This is a mayor
annoyance for me since, well, forever. As a visually impaired user, forcing me
to swipe text left to right the whole time after I zoomed to a comfortable
font size makes reading on smaller screens really bad.

And before you mention it, changing default font size in browser/OS doesn't
really help, mostly makes things worse (Bad categories like "medium", "huge"
instead of font size, page layouts breaking etc.)

~~~
franole
Im using this add on on Firefox for Android: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/text-reflow-w...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/text-reflow-we/). Maybe it can help you. Be aware it's not
perfect: >This add-on is my attempt to provide the "reflow" option for text in
Firefox Android. Warning: It is very limited. It will only reflow one
paragraph at a time. You will have to tap/click on every single paragraph that
you want to reflow.

------
dsr_
Does not support any addons, and is therefore useless until it does.

(uBlock Origin is a prerequisite for me.)

~~~
gcbw2
Same here. I do not know why the heck Mozilla is tiptoeing from just hiring
Raymond and making uBlock an integral part of firefox.

Note that they already included something similar, which is SafeBrowsing(TM),
that is maintained by google. Technically, it is exactly the same concept. But
uBlock is actively request by 99% of their users, while safeBrowser(TM)
fingerprinting is mostly disabled by half.

~~~
Touche
Pure speculation, I wonder if their contract with Google forbids them from
having ad blocking as part of the browser. At least if I was a company paying
another company millions of dollars I wouldn't let them block my income stream
in their product.

~~~
ChrisSD
They already have an adblocker built in (well a tracking blocker but that
often amounts to the same thing).

------
sciurus
You can learn more about Geckoview, the reusable heart of Firefox Preview, at
[https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/06/geckoview-
in-2019/](https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/06/geckoview-in-2019/)

(Disclosure: I work for Mozilla)

------
gloflo
If there is one thing I miss from current mobile Firefox, it's text reflow.
Opera mobile did it perfectly.

I want to be able to zoom in or out and have text reflowed to the screen
width. This makes the web magnitudes nicer to use on a small screen. No cut
off lines, no 10 lines per screen. Just convenient freedom over the primary
tool we interact on the web: Text.

~~~
bscphil
I wonder if this does what you expect? [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/fit-text-to-w...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/fit-text-to-width/?src=search)

~~~
gloflo
Nope, does not work on HN. But thank you!

------
vast
Just yesterday I thought it is really annoying that mobile browsers put the
address bar on top, even worse if it is moving in and out. That way it is
impossible come close to a native look and feel. Now FF puts the address bar
on bottom. Quite a suprise but I think it is a pretty smart change.

~~~
samueloph
I can't understand how UX designers come up with the idea that putting stuff
on the top of the screen* is a good thing, and even keep reiterating through
that. That's an honest question, anybody knows what's the motivation behind
that?

* or, places that are hard to reach for most users

~~~
Nagyman
Legacy design and use patterns. The top of the screen used to make more sense
than today.

Mobile-first design really hasn't taken hold for many UX web designers (and/or
the organizations haven't adapted). Relatively speaking, large phones where
it's difficult to reach the top weren't popular until recently. Even mobile
apps are just starting to put navigation towards the bottom.

------
mikelward
Don't bother sending feedback to the email address mentioned in the blog: it
bounces.

    
    
      We're writing to let you know
      that the group you tried to 
      contact (firefox-preview-feedback)
      may not exist, or you may not
      have permission to post
      messages to the group...

~~~
dblohm7
This has been fixed.

------
sanbor
Small tip: please avoid giving time estimations using seasons "coming this
fall", as in the other hemisphere it is going to be spring.

------
riquito
I'm a happy user of both Firefox Focus and Firefox mobile, I don't know what
could they improve but I'll give it a look.

About Firefox focus, I love to have it as default browser when opening links,
it gives me a lot of confidence to know that the session will be completely
destroyed afterward. I'd miss it if it were to be discontinued.

~~~
r3bl
A neat little thing I've discovered after installing the Preview is that Focus
is still here.

You can toggle between the modes in one tap, and if you're in a private mode,
opening links from other apps behaves just like Focus (minus the convenient
"erase everything" button, at least for now).

It's the best of both worlds, I don't have to use a second one for those rare
scenarios in which I want cookies (like remaining logged into HN).

------
asveikau
One reason I like FF on Android better than Chrome:

The Chrome user agent has your device model, even in incognito mode.

If you have a relatively rare Android device in your market, I think you can
be tracked fairly uniquely on that alone. I was creeped out when I discovered
this.

~~~
cpeterso
> The Chrome user agent has your device model, even in incognito mode.

For example, on my phone, Firefox's current User-Agent header is:

    
    
      Mozilla/5.0 (Android 8.1.0; Tablet; rv:67.0) Gecko/67.0 Firefox/67.0
    

while Chrome's is:

    
    
      Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 8.1.0; Moto G (5) Plus) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/740.3729.136 Mobile Safari/537.36

------
kumarharsh
Wow, this preview is incredibly good! I was not expecting such a good quality
from a preview app (given how bad some of the other tries from Firefox have
been on Android).

And you know what absolutely clinches it for me? That you moved the address
bar to the bottom!! Just like Edge on Windows mobile - that's the best
position for address bar IMO.

I also hope you do something about better battery management on the android
app.

Have a bow!

~~~
esalman
Agree about the address bar positioning, last time I used a browser that had
this feature was dolphin browser, at least 5 years ago.

------
nwah1
Main thing I don't like about Firefox for Android is the lack of support for
containers. I want to use sites like Facebook within a container.

~~~
briffle
I love containers, but the lack of ability to sync them really annoys me.
Every time I get a new computer (or re-install, or setup a VPN to test with,
etc) I have to manually create all my rules to always open my bank stuff in a
special container, and always open my work sites in their container, etc. It
seems like these rules should just sync.

~~~
nwah1
Totally agree. I've also had it just completely forget all my "always open in
container" settings in the past. But that hasn't occurred recently, so
hopefully those days are over.

------
m-p-3
Not fond of the bottom address bar, I guess I'm not used to it because I
always tap the top-right corner to switch tabs... I just need to get it in my
muscle-memory, not a big deal. I still cross my fingers this will be
configurable at some point.

My main gripe is that I feel like bookmarks are now a second-class citizen in
Firefox Preview, they're not as accessible. I could see my mobile bookmarks
right on the new tab screen in Firefox, now I have to press ⋮ > Your Library >
Bookmarks and then click the bookmark I want.

4 clicks, while it took only one (or two) before with bookmarks as the default
panel on my homepage on Firefox "classic".

~~~
kumarharsh
Bookmarks have become even more first-class now - just swipe up from your
address bar anytime. Try it now ( in the Firefox preview).

Also, I feel the opposite regarding the address bar position - give it a few
days, you'll absolutely love it. Edge on Windows Mobile had the same position,
and it was a very nifty and time-saving UX. You can now use the phone one-
handed more easily, even for small-handed people.

~~~
squiggleblaz
Any UI element that you can't find by searching is not first class. In
particular, if there's some gesture you have to randomly guess exists, it's a
hidden feature for advanced users only.

~~~
squiggleblaz
I'd actually downvote my own comment right now.

There's a thumb that indicates dragability. They're about as hidden as a
feature in a menu - that's not great, but it's a lot better than I understood
before. (The preview took several hours to download and install on my phone.
It's big, but it's not that big that it should've taken that long.)

------
Droobfest
I'm a huge fan of the navigation bar on the bottom. I've missed it since I had
to give up Windows Phone. It's hard to believe that neither Apple or Google
ever added the option. I can't think of a single reason it would be better on
top, It's simply harder to reach and less usable.

This also goes for all other apps...

~~~
zrobotics
Brave on Android has had bottom-bar for quite a while, it was the reason I
switched from Firefox. I would switch back, but as there is no add-on
support...

------
Touche
Some feedback: If you are going to market your browser as privacy focused, it
has to block ads by default. As far as I can this one does not block ads at
all. Good initial experience but please block ads.

~~~
orbital-decay
_> If you are going to market your browser as privacy focused, it has to block
ads by default_

A privacy-focused browser should care about the _privacy_ part of the online
advertisement, which is tracking. Completely preventing the site from showing
any ads is a different feature.

~~~
suby
Considering that advertisements are a common vector for installing spyware and
malware, I think adblocking and antitracking are two sides of the same coin.

------
owaislone
I've been using it and it has been actually pretty good. It already has
Firefox Sync and ability to send tabs to different devices. Only thing I miss
is the ability to open tabs in background. This was my favorite feature in the
previous Firefox for Android.

~~~
mncolinlee
> Only thing I miss is the ability to open tabs in background.

Long press the link.

~~~
owaislone
I meant send links from any app to firefox and switch to firefox at a later
time to find them ready to be read.

~~~
mncolinlee
I didn't know about that feature. Feel free to request it on GitHub.

~~~
dblohm7
In Fennec that feature is referred to as “Tab Queues.”

------
magissima
I've been using Firefox Preview for a while and I like it, especially the
bottom navigation bar, but one thing that I hope survives from the old app is
the tab queue, which sends links opened from other apps to Firefox in the
background without stealing focus from the original app. To me it's a game
changer on the level of tabbed browsing and I don't know why all mobile
browsers don't have it.

~~~
briffle
I agree, one of the best parts about FF on android was the queue. I hate the
clicking a link, and it forces you to task switch right then to that link. I
like to read things, click for more info, and then follow up when I am done. I
rate it higher than add-ons and ublock (I use a DNS server that filters out
many ads for me already, [https://www.nextdns.io/](https://www.nextdns.io/) )

------
Causality1
Now if they could just fix Firefox Mobile's abysmal tab management. Chrome
Mobile's tab screen is a stack of pages in the Z-axis with the one closest to
the user being the most recent tab and so on. Firefox Mobile's is a grid with
the number of rows and columns being variable depending on screen dimensions.
Figuring out which ones you opened in what order is not immediately apparent.
It also suffers from the frankly amateur Android programming mistake of
varying the swipe limits directly with the width of the screen, so going from
portrait to landscape on a 19.5:9 phone screen means dismissing a tab suddenly
requires you to swipe over twice as far as it does in portrait mode.

More than once I've found myself saying "oh my god, go away!" after trying and
failing three times to swipe an unwanted tab away before remembering I have to
drag the damn thing halfway to Timbuktu to dismiss it.

~~~
bscphil
> Now if they could just fix Firefox Mobile's abysmal tab management. Chrome
> Mobile's tab screen is a stack of pages in the Z-axis with the one closest
> to the user being the most recent tab and so on. Firefox Mobile's is a grid
> with the number of rows and columns being variable depending on screen
> dimensions.

You can change it to a linear list easily. Settings -> General -> Compact
Tabs.

Personally I strongly prefer the way Firefox does it. The order is actually
pretty simple. Left to right, top to bottom is oldest to newest.

~~~
Causality1
...which does nothing to address the problem of inconsistent UI experience
because the setting doesn't affect landscape mode so now it's even less
consistent.

~~~
bscphil
You're right! I didn't realize it didn't affect landscape mode. That's
probably a bug.

------
Millennium
Not too shabby.

\- Performance is great. I'm already using it pretty much everywhere.

\- Ad blocking is about to become Firefox's killer app, and it was a major PR
mistake to release a preview without enough extension support for ad blockers
to work. They should have delayed the release, if necessary.

\- I wish the QR code reader had been released as a separate app (and on iOS
too), but I'm actually quite glad to see Mozilla doing one. I look at my app
store for QR code readers, and I'm confronted with a sea of questionable
permissions, ads, obvious fake reviews, and tainted makers. I welcome a free
QR code reader from a source I know and trust, but you can't build something
like that into a browser without either bloating the browser or limiting the
reader. It should be spun off into its own app, then allowed to grow.

------
numbers
I love addons for firefox mobile so I'm not sure if I can give that up just
yet :/

------
whalabi
This is a great step in the right direction

…but I really don’t like the thing that slides up at the bottom of the screen.
It takes the place of content which is 99.99% the reason I’m there. Not to
share our bookmark. If I want to do that, I’ll find it in the menu.

And is it just me that really, really needs a fast way to switch tabs to use a
browser?

Chrome lets me swipe across the bar at the top of the screen, but with Firefox
it’s a tap, a visual scan to find the tab I want, and another tap.

Otherwise I’d switch to this browser yesterday

I like the collections concept, and the home screen.

Also, it's a joke that Google's image search is horrible on Firefox, for no
good reason. If you switch the user agent it works fine.

~~~
nh2
Please allow swiping the address bar to switch tabs.

Otherwise it's just too slow.

That is what keeps me away from using Firefox on mobile (15 years Firefox
user).

~~~
whalabi
I'm wondering if I should fork Firefox mobile...

------
zmmmmm
I keep using Opera because of a few small affordances that any browser could
implement (and some do, but only Opera does all of them). The main one is
text-reflow on zoom. It seems so ridiculous that I have to either stare at
microscopic text or pan back and forwards just to be able to read things.
Surely actually reading the contents of pages is a primary feature of a
browser?

The other one I just can't understand is why not implement pull-to-refresh?
Surely that can't be hard?

I know this is just ranting, but it's weird to see browser makers completely
re-inventing their products when small, basic things could be fixed in their
current versions.

~~~
jdc
[https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/3262](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/3262)

~~~
zmmmmm
Thanks!

------
blaisio
This is exactly the sort of thing that makes me want to contribute to and use
Mozilla projects. Bravo!

------
beiller
I've been using Firefox on Android for about a year now, and it is great,
except one major problem. Google news site (news.google.com). News I believe
uses my entire phone's RAM and starts swapping (I am totally guessing, does
Android use swap?) because the app will become unresponsive for about 2 full
minutes while the page is rendering. Closing and re-opening a tab in this
state actually breaks the app FYI (all other tabs freeze as well). Scrolling
will give low resolution visuals below the fold. Horrible experience on google
news. Actually all google properties are PAINFULLY slow. Is that on purpose
Google? I got around it by installing Firefox Focus, and that seems to load
google news quite fast, but Focus is like a permanent incognito mode, so that
is quite inconvenient in itself. So now I just use Focus for google news and
regular Firefox for everything else. Hopefully there will be performance
improvements to come. My phone is an older Huawei Honor 8 so maybe I should
just buy a new one... but the infrared on it is so great!

~~~
iamnotacrook
Memory management on Android is awful. My music player routinely gets killed;
I've tried all options available to me to prevent this.. It's just too
difficult for Android to work out "you're listening to music, even though
there's no visible ui, so I won't kill it". I understand that there is a
whitelist of music apps which don't get killed - so intractable is this
problem - but the one I use (Rocket Player) isn't on it.

~~~
ignaloidas
The killing isn't actually the fault of Android itself, but the smartphone
vendors that try to push the battery time metrics to the max. Battery
management from Android isn't that bad actually, but the vendors will always
find a way to fuck it up. I really liked this insight from "Zombies, Run!"
developer:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18901006#18902273](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18901006#18902273)

------
jeroenhd
I can't get it to work with my custom certificate authority (which I use to
analyse traffic coming from my phone every now and then to see if any apps are
leaking personal info). Also, though I know better, I also have some intranet
services running with a certificate signed by that authority because the
domains are dynamically generated and I can't automate my DNS to get wildcard
letsencrypt certificates.

Normal mobile Firefox has their own cert store, so you can import it by
clicking a link to the certificate and hitting OK. Other apps use the system
certificate store so I have imported my certificate into there as well. Sadly,
it still doesn't work.

My specific use case may not be very common, but certificate authorities in
BYOD companies aren't uncommon either. I can't use this for my daily driver
until I can import my certificate :(

The new system is very interesting though, the idea of separate browsing
behaviours between devices can be a game changer if they implement it
smoothly.

~~~
sciurus
There's an issue for this at [https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/issues/2286](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/2286)

~~~
jeroenhd
Thanks, I just subscribed to the issue. Seems like it's blocked by a Bugzilla
issue that didn't get updated in five months. I guess it's gonna be a while
until I switch browsers.

------
simfoo
Wow. Just tried it out and it is fast! It feels more than just 2x as fast as
the regular firefox mobile on the same device.

Now just add proper settings (no settings menu yet to disable thirdparty
cookies) and add addon support (ublock, skip redirect, cookie autodelete) and
I will switch immediately even with smaller bugs

------
niftylettuce
It would be nice if they merged my open PR on GitHub with a core bug exposing
global variables...

[https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/focus-
android/pull/4296](https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/focus-android/pull/4296)

------
jimmaswell
Cool, how about working on that mobile browser you already have? I've been
using it for years and it's good but apparently the lack of progress on it is
because they abandoned us users of it to focus on this thing.

When quantum came out addon capability on mobile severely regressed and never
recovered. This issue to support the context menu API has been open for TWO
YEARS.[0] I just want to be able to long press an image and reverse image
search it like I used to, is that so much to ask? Yes, there's an addon to do
it through the addon menu and then tap the image but it's not the same.

0:
[https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1363016](https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1363016)

~~~
mncolinlee
We had many discussions around this. The Firefox for Android code base was not
in a great condition to maintain backwards compatibility as well as accept a
new rendering engine and all of the new Android Components we wanted to
introduce to unify of our code bases for different Android-based products.

TL;DR: There was too much cruft built up.

Work should move faster now. We substantially grew our Android team in the
last year.

~~~
jimmaswell
I hope that works out then, I'm just frustrated with the state of mobile as
it's been since the regressions. As someone who still thinks dropping XUL from
desktop was a mistake (and maybe even mobile now that devices are more
powerful) I wish it could've just stayed how it was but I'll just have to make
the best of it.

------
cmurf
I now have Firefox Preview, Firefox Focus, and Firefox, on my Android phone.
I'm not really clear what the strategy is, and future deliverable? I read that
Firefox Focus development has stopped, and Firefox Preview will become Firefox
on Android. But is Firefox Preview a whole new thing or is it based on what's
been learned about Focus? Or?

Also, it's kinda odd but I always have Twitter not fully loading on Firefox
(on Android), where Firefox Focus always works fine. Typical is it hangs with
spinners, if I reload it'll say "something went wrong" and the in-line
retry/reload button doesn't work, same error, but reloading the whole page
sometimes works. So far I haven't had this problem with Preview.

------
sirfz
Does anyone suffer from degrading image/video quality on some websites while
using Firefox Android? I have this issue with Facebook. I don't want the
Facebook app installed on my phone (mostly to block notifications and for
privacy reasons) so I access FB via Firefox but images look terrible and every
video I click opens in a separate tab instead of in-page (at least I can
download it tho).

Only solution I have is using user-agent switcher to change my UA to either
Chrome or Firefox for iOS (which is what I picked to keep Firefox in my UA)
but this breaks other stuff on some websites.

Question is, how to get Facebook and other sites to stop serving shit quality
to Firefox users? How is this fair?

~~~
jddj
One option is to attempt (despite of all of the obstacles they might put in
place..) to increase Firefox's market share, perhaps by spreading the word
about privacy concerns and/or ux benefits.

Another might be adblocker-esque trusted and shared community-maintained lists
along with an add-on (does this exist?) for per-domain user agent mocking.
Hopefully with enough adoption (i.e integrated into ublock) that it reduces
the value proposition of investing the time.

Thirdly, continuing to call out the companies who do this sort of thing.

~~~
sirfz
But why would market share matter if the browser is more than capable of
handling whatever content a site serves. I don't see this relevant to the
issue.

I think the fact that Firefox doesn't announce the device's model in its UA
could be a factor so some sites fall back to their lower quality version by
default but it sucks that we can't force the higher quality version.

~~~
jddj
Alienating users for using adblocker-capable software might be a more
difficult sell as the group gets larger.

------
dddddaviddddd
I guess first party isolation isn't supported? (yet?) about:config loads a
blank page.

------
thepra
The situation didn't change with this another version of Firefox for Android
(and I have all of them):

1) A webpage with many and mostly made out of grid and flex elements does
tender waaaaay too slowly and ugly (low quality artifacts on scrolling)

2) Animations like of the mere max-height to unhide content perform like
garbage, as if it was performed by the CPU alone

And I already did report this behaviour even with this version, let's see how
it will turn out.

Out of this experience, expecting mobile web apps to perform well enough is
meaningless, lag and rendering artifacts will fill your patience meanwhile on
Chrome like browsers everything is waaaay smoother.

------
Aissen
After a few years of using Brave on Android, I switched back to Firefox, since
I now have a powerful enough device that the bad cold boot performance can be
ignored. A few missing things:

\- Chromium's zoom on tap is really more intelligent. Hitting the [-] on HN is
much easier on in Brave than Firefox.

\- The gesture to switch tab on Chromium is also more comfortable. That's a
missed opportunity on Firefox Preview as well.

\- I wish there was a way for uBlock-Origin to integrate better on a webpage.
Disabling javascript makes many websites much more usable (disabling most on-
load popups). It's one more tap to do that on Firefox than on Brave.

------
cptwunderlich
Last time I tried FF on Android, the Font Rendering was abysmal :( I've always
been a faithful FF user on Desktop and I wish it would be a good alternative
on mobile too. Let's see where this Preview goes.

------
arendtio
Most of the time it feels great already (sometimes it freezes for a few
moments), but does someone know how/if it is possible to add Progressive Web
Apps to the desktop with this Firefox for Android Preview?

~~~
cpeterso
The Firefox Preview team is actively working on PWA support for Q3 or Q4,
including add to home screen.

~~~
arendtio
Thanks for the info. I am looking forward to it :-)

------
piyush_soni
Feedback : When you are making a new Firefox for Android, please fix this
small problem but personally a big annoyance : I should not need to open a
whole new page _before_ trying to open a new tab. Just add a plus button next
to the address bar, that's it. Currently the workflow just disturbs me in all
Firefox browsers for mobile - you have to click the tabs button, _then_ the
'Plus' button (or click the settings menu and then the new tab - both require
two taps with some delay, for something that should be just one quick tap).

~~~
vmarsy
I'm confused about your comment, just was pleasantly surpised by testing this
new Firefox Preview, that only one click was required to open a new tab:

1) Tap the tabs button

2) You're already on the new tab, so either

a) Search in the search bar: this opens your search results in this current
new-tab (you can also type an address there and search see your recent
history)

b) Click on one of the links saved in a "Collection": this opens in this new
tab.

~~~
piyush_soni
Thanks. For the old Firefox for Android that's not the case, but for the new
one that's an improvement (I actually didn't notice in my quick stint with
it). However, they can further improve it by having the focus on the
address/search bar by default. It's currently still two taps before I can
start typing. Having to tap two times is my major annoyance with almost all
the mobile browsers.

------
NikolaeVarius
Its pretty good, just need faster tab switching and extensions.

------
neop1x
Ok, tried it. Almost no settings, no tab previews, no addons, not even
about:config. So far unusable for me. And unfortunatelly as seless as Foxus -
it's effectivelly Focus v2, so I uninstalled it. I hope some provacy features
and speedups will eventually be backported to our awesome Firefox which I use
daily. Instead of Focus v2, I would like to see Firefox as an alternative
default webview for Android.

------
mintplant
> In order to have a strong foundation for the next generation of mobile
> Firefox browsers and put all our efforts and resources in GeckoView, work on
> Firefox Focus will currently be on hold. Don’t worry though, you can still
> keep using our privacy browser, Focus, as well as our current Firefox for
> Android.

I think this is a typo, and meant to say that Firefox for Android development
is on hold, not Focus.

~~~
callahad
Not a typo; we had not formally announced that Focus was on hold while we
bootstrap the Firefox Preview / GeckoView / Mozilla Android Components
ecosystem. Now we have. :)

If you're interested in community maintainership of Focus, please fill out
this survey: [https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5022894/Firefox-Focus-
Survey](https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/5022894/Firefox-Focus-Survey)

(Linked from [https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/06/geckoview-
in-2019/](https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/06/geckoview-in-2019/))

------
hereiskkb
With a new look and UI, a walkthrough maybe warranted. Took me a while to find
the bookmark button. And the color scheme on the button itself is not as
intuitive, does not present the idea on first viewing whether a page is
bookmarked or not. But overall, looks great and works fast too. I am sure more
devlopments are yet to come.

For now, looks promising to be a challenger to the Chrome monopoly.

------
jeena
I can't find any info about Sync (especially with my own back-end) which is
one of the main reasons I'm using Firefox everywhere.

~~~
sagischwarz
Sync works fine, at least for bookmarks and history, but I cannot choose what
to sync, the check boxes are greyed out:
[https://i.imgur.com/atDU75z.png](https://i.imgur.com/atDU75z.png)

~~~
fzzzy
It's not implemented yet. Coming soon.

------
piotrkubisa
I am really glad they moved the URL bar to the bottom. As a former
BlackBerry10 user I find it more UX friendly for touch-based devices.

------
drbytes
Add reflow... Opera does that really well. Doubletap to reflow and make text
larger. Its the only android browser that does it afaik.

------
EastSmith
I use Brave on mobile (also has built in ad blocker). Is this version of
Firefox for Android on par with Brave regarding ad blocking?

------
galaxyLogic
I think FF should implement an add-blocker which allows me to say which adds I
like and which I don't.

Many important services like news-papers can only survive if they get add-
revenue. They also contain adds in their print-edition and people still
subscribe to them.

So I don't mind adds in general just adds which have no relevance to me.

------
V-2
First impressions:

1\. It doesn't properly "Follow device theme" (as per Settings) - I had to
switch it to Dark manually;

2\. Zooming text doesn't work on some pages, and on others it doesn't make the
text rewrap. That's a pet peeve of mine as far as mobile browsers go. Only a
handful gets this right (Opera, Yandex).

------
ekianjo
Again Telemetry on by default with asking anything to the end user. Mozilla,
when are you going to learn?

------
silverwind
Why does the link to the preview release go through a tracking site and not
directly to the Play Store?

~~~
dbtx
Why did I hope that app.adjust.com was somewhere that I could get the .apk
without having anything to do with the Play Store?

~~~
mncolinlee
You can grab APKs on GitHub, but you'll need to update manually if you do so.
[https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/releases/tag/v1.0.0](https://github.com/mozilla-
mobile/fenix/releases/tag/v1.0.0)

~~~
dbtx
Thank you. I always expected this sort of thing (like pgeorgi's link) to be
available but it isn't made as obvious and I stopped hunting too early.

------
indeyets
Preview just lost 3 opened tabs replacing them with about:blank. Could be out-
of-memory condition or smth else, but that doesn't give me trust. I'll stay
with an old version for now

Very hopeful for the future when it works and supports arbitrary add-ons
though (containers pls!)

------
electriclove
So how is this new Firefox for Android different than the Firefox I have
installed on my Android right now? Will I automatically get upgraded to this
when it rolls out or is it a separate product? It would be nice to have that
explained on the page/blog post.

------
Bob995
Why are they breaking their own stuff over and over again?! I updated their
browser on Android and after the update it started hanging, refusing to load
any website without a restart and eating up all the RAM? Why can't they invest
in testers? WHY?

------
mehrdadn
Can they please provide a way to close all tabs instead of always having at
least a blank one open. I'm probably just OCD on this but it's the most
annoying thing I found about Firefox on Android compared to Chrome when I
start using it.

------
Yizahi
Wow, usability is so much better - dark theme, support for Samsung OneUI,
search on bottom. Full release will be great (and used by 0.00001% of droid
users). PS: using FF mobile for 3 years exclusively. Googlenet can go in the
known direction.

------
miohtama
Mozilla should do a deal with Huawei now when the trade war is raging. Hard
Chinese money, desperate for a high quality Chrome alternative browser, might
be better than wishing Google keeps paying for the default search engine spot.

~~~
cameronbrown
That's pretty damn risky. Not only would it draw the ire of the government,
but they could have their entire company cut off at a whim.

------
kamfc
Firefox Preview is dope. Hot off the shelf, and it's as swift as a fox. Maybe
hopeful but I feel this browser is on fire. Now just need to work on the ux
like the button for `read` mode. Bye, G.

------
Markoff
reinventing by not even providing pull down to refresh as option? so much for
Firefox customization, lacking for years such basic feature

and don't tell me about buggy add-ons as substitute

also by my experience it was crashing on regular sites and had problems with
repeated words/characters and jumpy cursor in text fields making even writing
comment on hacker needs impossible

I mean first fix such horrible bugs and provide basic features before you
start doing something else

I use Firefox on desktop, but I am not really masochist to use it on Android

------
lucideer
\- Talks about introducing a browser more focused on privacy

\- Comes with Google search suggestions enabled by default on first run

(has a Google logo prominently displayed in the middle of the screen on first
run in fact)

~~~
ec109685
Google pays a large amount to be default search engine.

~~~
roca
It seems highly unlikely that Google cares enough about suggestion data that
they'd pay more for suggestion traffic than for just the searches.

It is much more likely that users expect search suggestions to work out of the
box and some will bounce if they try a new browser that doesn't do that.

------
Eridrus
Is Firefox on Android ever going to build a sandbox architecture, or are the
hard won lessons from the Desktop world going to be ignored?

------
Roy78
I and many others that I'm aware of truly desire a mobile browser that has the
feature to disable all mobile sites/web pages.

------
enriquto
What is the point to have a different version of Firefox? Can't they simply
remove the unneeded cruft from the standard version?

~~~
dao-
The new Firefox for Android should eventually have roughly the same feature
set as the old one. It's faster because it uses a whole new technology stack,
not because they decided not to add unneeded cruft, whatever that means.

~~~
neop1x
I wish that were true. But from other software redesigns and improvements, I
learned that new designs often come with simplifications and reduction of
functionality. Missing about:config and very simple Settings page is
frightening me. Firefox and Mozilla saved the world from IE monopoly and it
was always targeting power users but I fear that might change. :( So far I am
happy with mobile FF but so far pretty unhappy with this preview. Almost
everyone talks about bottom address bar (which after clicking moves on top
anyway) and the speed. I am alergic to oversimplification ala new apple
designs. I fear of: "We've reinvented mobile browsing. Now there is one big
blowing button and an animation of colorful unicorns where you can customize
the speed of movement and size of its horn. _applause_ It loads 2x times
faster but you can't configure anything else because it's using our next-gen
AI which learns your habits and automatically enables pull to refresh after
after 50 swipes down (no way to disable) and starts blocking some ads (except
those participating in OurSafeAD(tm) program) once it detects from your eye
movement you are trying to avoid looking at them"

------
buu700
Add a mobile JS console and this will immediately become my default browser. I
don't understand why no one has done this yet.

------
toastal
I really wish I could still access about:confg

------
polskibus
Seems you can't move open tabs to Preview from Firefox Beta on Android. What a
pity!

~~~
mncolinlee
It's coming very soon. The feature almost made this version except for a late
bug.

------
k__
Finally. I already switched on Windows and Linux. Now macOS and Android is
missing.

------
fmakunbound
Tried it out. Love it.

------
diafygi
My ideal for mobile: Firefox + uBlock Origin + Containers

Now: Firefox + uBlock Origin (no Containers)

Upcoming: Firefox (no uBlock Origin, no Containers)

Seems like we're moving backwards, no?

~~~
patrickbolle
This is a preview version (as mentioned a billion times in the article).
Addons are planned by the end of 2019. This is for testing.

~~~
Ultramanoid
Like others have said, uBlock Origin ( or solid alternative; uMatrix, etc ) at
this point is a prerequisite for any browser.

I am not testing something that puts me in danger and throws me into the
festering garbage dumpster that internet is these days without it. It's like
testing a car that doesn't have brakes yet.

~~~
neiman
So don't test, it's not mandatory...

~~~
Ultramanoid
I am a developer and spend half my work time in Firefox Nightly. This is not
usable for me despite being exactly the target for this preview.

~~~
Touche
The target of a preview is not people expecting it to be feature complete, so
no, you're not the target.

~~~
Ultramanoid
Tell me how am I supposed to test add-ons on this Firefox as a developer
before the release then.

Edit : And again, most of my work if not all related to Firefox, I do on the
Nightly build. I expect things to break, but this preview ( of which there
have been builds for a while already ) is a non-starter.

~~~
dralley
Why are you assuming that addons will be added in the GA release, and not some
version prior to the GA release?

~~~
Ultramanoid
These builds have been available and in development for months now. They are
announced at this time for 'early adopters and developers' ( EXACTLY us ) and
still not even a hint of add-ons, or any obvious / apparent interest in them
from Mozilla.

The only way to use uBlock Origin and / or uMatrix ( which again, many of us
argue are essential, on top of add-on development itself ) on Android today is
Firefox. Yet there have been nothing but vague replies these past months about
when development from Mozilla will pay any attention to this, arguably its
biggest differentiator and advantage compared to the spyware army of Chromium
/ Chrome clones on the biggest platform accessing the internet today.

------
bad_user
Nice changes, I'm now wishing for an Android :-)

------
dralley
>At Firefox

You mean, at Mozilla.

This whole branding campaign to shove everything under the "Firefox" umbrella
is silly.

~~~
piyush_soni
It's _literally_ supposed to be the new Firefox for Android. So the 'Firefox'
umbrella seems reasonable?

~~~
ptx
Reasonable for the product, which is not the same as the organization.

At Microsoft they make Windows. At Mozilla they make Firefox.

~~~
dblohm7
And Firefox has much higher brand recognition than Mozilla.

------
silversconfused
Add extensions support and disable telemetry/remote-control by default
(pushing updates where you control the code is remote control, don't even try
to argue against that one).

~~~
pgeorgi
> disable telemetry/remote-control by default (pushing updates where you
> control the code is remote control, don't even try to argue against that
> one).

So they shouldn't put updates on the Play Store?

~~~
dbtx
They shouldn't be sending me to the Play Store ITFP.

I can't use Play because I've got no GApps in my phone, so I can't try their
app unless I find a copy "somewhere" and convince myself it hasn't been
poisoned. I got a reasonably up-to-date Firefox through APKPure, and later on
after watching that 35C3 talk [1], I unzipped and grepped all those saved
.apks to find the APKPure app itself and Firefox and LingoDeer had the same
traces of Facebook's SDK in them. So that's off the table, huh? The ones that
I saved from older phones after having gottten them through Play were all
fine, but _I can 't update those_ without grabbing another phone and letting
Google ... play in it. <ducks>

Just the other day I asked the Waterfox team for an apk and an md5sum, for the
same reason-- though I'd settle for the md5sum alone! But Mozilla has
resources WF can barely dream of, and it apparently intends to be a champion
for privacy, so this is kinda sad.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0vlD7r-kTc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0vlD7r-kTc)

~~~
pgeorgi
If you have a phone without GApps, you're either in China (which has its own
app store ecosystems) or not Mozilla's target audience for their binaries.

[https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mobile/releases/68.0b13/](https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/mobile/releases/68.0b13/)
has the APKs plus signed hashes though.

(But more generally speaking: Why don't you build Firefox from source if
you're so concerned with middlemen messing with the code?)

~~~
dbtx
Again, resources. My workstation is still waiting to get torn down to have the
smoke scrubbed out; my desk is torn down and cleaned already but still waiting
for me to have a new place to put it. My room didn't burn but there's no
electricity and the whole place is not habitable; by the time it is, it won't
be my room anyway.

The 4GB laptop isn't very good for compiling large projects, because running
WF needs much of that-- and then, just linking libxul.so needs almost all of
it. On the side, maybe I also care a little bit about not wasting the energy
since I wouldn't be customizing it at all. On the other side, my software
compilation experience perfectly matches my desire to ever do it: 100% for
Linux, 0% for Android.

Thank you for the link. I went looking for that in the past but gave up,
apparently too soon.

------
steve19
Still no pull to refresh. They really don't want users to adopt their browser.
Literally every single other mobile Web browser supports it.

Yet Mozilla has some ideological stance that it breaks web interaction (with
what, the 0.0001% of browser that target Firefox above Safari or Chrome on
mobile).

~~~
Someone1234
Pull to refresh is why I want to move away from Chrome. It keeps going off as
I scroll down a page, changing my page position or losing content.

Unfortunately it cannot be disabled. The flag to disable it was removed.
[https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/8152831?hl=en](https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/8152831?hl=en)

~~~
steve19
How does it go off when you scroll down? Does chrome refresh when you also hit
the bottom?

