
‘They Get Fired All the Time. And They Have No Idea Why’ - laurex
https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1gq9tqwk8z108/They-Get-Fired-All-the-Time-And-They-Have-No-Idea-Why
======
leggomylibro
>One day the young man’s manager called her in a panic. The manager had asked
him if he would like to complete a task that needed doing, and the young man
simply said, “No.”

>Later, when asked why, the young man said he’d been working on another
project on a deadline and didn’t think he should take on extra work. Scheiner
explained to the manager that he needed to be more specific and directly tell
the employee that he wanted him to set aside what he was currently working on
and start on the new task.

I gotta say, I'm surprised that this needed to be explained to the manager. If
someone asks a worker whether they want to do something and the worker say
"no", the manager's instinct is to panic and escalate before trying to clarify
anything?

I guess it's a good example for the article - it's easy to empathize with the
person whose manager got confused, and easy to understand how dealing with
those kinds of situations on a daily basis ends in the workers quitting or
getting fired.

 _Everyone_ feels uncomfortable when a conversation goes off-script, but we as
a society expect the 'abnormal' people to be the ones who bear the
consequences of that discomfort whenever it arises. It doesn't seem fair,
especially since the 'abnormal' people are expected to bear their discomfort
in silence, but that's life for you.

~~~
mlyle
> Everyone feels uncomfortable when a conversation goes off-script, but we as
> a society expect the 'abnormal' people to be the ones who bear the
> consequences of that discomfort whenever it arises.

There's a little more going on in the example, I think.

It's a common social technique among adults with authority to frame requests
as a question-- "Could you please....?" or "Would you like to....?". This is
gentler and shows a degree of deference and courtesy from the person with
authority to the other person.

A blunt "no" effectively comes across as a rejection of that olive branch-- I
think that's where the initial internal panic comes from. If you don't
understand the employee's autism-- even after working out the problem in this
case is a prioritization issue-- it creates a bit of an ongoing question about
the employee and their willingness to be a cooperative member of the team.

~~~
nyir
> It's a common social technique among adults with authority to frame requests
> as a question

Is that somehow locale specific? I've never had people ask me to do something
like that until I had interactions with US-based folks.

Personally I find it very odd to phrase it like that and it basically achieves
the complete opposite of that intent (so I've to actively ignore it and read
it as the actual assignment that it was meant as).

~~~
krinchan
The US has a lot of weird norms in the corporate office culture.

It's a result of a protracted period of tucking more and more of the emotion
of an interaction into the background context to avoid offense, conflict, or
resentment. A lot of this is early Corporate Culture engineering.

A good beginners example is the phrase, "per my last email." That's the one
you'll see most, but variants such as "per the last meeting" and "per our
previous conversation" are included.

This phrase seems innocuous enough, but it's an expression of deep frustration
with a tinge of insult at it's target. It's essentially saying, "You haven't
been paying attention or you're an idiot. Either way, you are wasting my
time."

Imperative requests framed as optional questions is kinda a part of that. A
constant stream of imperatives from your manager begins to feel like you're
being "ordered around" and you're not "appreciated." So a manager will often
ask you giving you the appearance of choice even though you both know you do
not because the context of their authority makes it so.

For a very long time, this worked. It was definitely manipulative, if not
borderline brainwashing. Baby Boomer's misguided advice to younger generations
about loyalty to employers is a result of this.

For Gen X and on, it's mostly an empty husk of norms that are either
meaningless or just the accepted way to insult someone without losing your
job. "You're an idiot" will cost you your job but "Per my last email" carries
the same message and doesn't cost you your job. Asking me politely to do a
task is just how you assign tasks now, no one thinks it means you actually
respect or care the assignee.

I can definitely see how this layer would cause issues with people on the
spectrum. It causes enough problems for neurotypicals.

~~~
Balgair
Wait until you get a load of UK speech patterns:

Amazing driving > I've nearly died with you at the wheel

Great game > We lost 1-8, I hate my team, they stink so badly

We'll meet up later > I'm not going out for anything but a WW3

Not to worry > I've cataloged this offense and will never forget it

It's a bit wet > a tsunami has recently occured

An email only ending in: Thanks > I hope you die

It's fine > It is so bad that I have actually lost verbal control of myself in
public

Perfect > It's all ruined

Not bad > It's total shite

Not bad, actually > I am the happiest I have been in a decade

It could be worse > The Blitz is actively occuring at this moment, all hope is
lost

Come round anytime > I never want to see you again

Oh no, my fault > What are you doing you clumsy oaf

When you have a tick > You are already late

It'll be fine > I expect things to catch on fire shortly making things,
somehow, worse

Well, that's brave > you are criminally insane

Quite good > underwhelming

Oh by the way...> So, to the point of this interaction finally

I just have a few minor comments > a complete re-write is required

~~~
laurentl
And don’t forget this other mainstay of British understatement:

I am just going outside and may be some time > I’m committing suicide, don’t
wait up for me

------
motohagiography
From the article: "People with Asperger’s syndrome, the term still commonly
used for one of the most well-known forms of autism spectrum disorder, bring
serious advantages to the financial markets: extreme focus, a facility with
numbers, a willingness to consider unpopular opinions, a strong sense of
logic, and an intense belief in fairness and justice. But, like other autistic
employees, they often feel alienated from their managers, colleagues, and
clients. Sometimes they simply get fired."

I wonder if these people were always fired, or has something in the business
changed that made immoderate instances of these traits a liability? Tech has
changed in the last decade, to where I don't think someone "on the spectrum,"
could survive very long in a west coast company without being preyed upon by
people who trade on other attributes.

Using Pfeffer's triad of "Performance, Credentials, Relationships," businesses
seem to evolve to where success becomes weighted to the latter two instead of
purely on performance. Arbitrage, startups, and other asymmetric, high risk
plays could seem to benefit from high performing people on the spectrum, where
people in later stage businesses that have more linear growth or stability
benefit from the latter two.

To me, the trouble with the most functional edge of the "spectum," view as
presented is it seems to both normalize groupthink and some of the more
shameful characteristics of political operators, and pathologizes clear
reasoning and principle.

I get that expecting others to be accountable to my or any other general
ethical rules is to choose suffering, but the tendency to pseudo-medicalize
people as "on the spectrum," who lose politically feels ominous.

~~~
commandlinefan
I’ve struggled with social interactions my whole life. Even now, at 45, they
never feel natural or comfortable, and I dread them - but I figured long ago
that if I’m smart enough to solve differential equations, program in assembler
and speak Japanese, I’m also smart enough to figure out social interactions.
So I just watch what other people do, and then do that. It always feels forced
and artificial, but either nobody notices or they humor me.

~~~
bitwize
You're going up against people who have considerable brain processing power
(not even CPU power, more like GPU power -- 99% of it below the threshold of
consciousness) hardwired from birth to decipher social cues and generate
appropriate responses, and are far more practiced at such than you. This isn't
something you can just "get the hang of". You will always be n00b-tier amongst
neurotypicals, who are playing quite a different game. They can integrate
facial microexpressions, micro-gestures, subtle changes in body posture and
tone of voice of a room full of people and synchronize their own behavior and
voice to shape the group dynamic while you're still figuring out whether a
particular person's laugh was one of scorn or approval. That's why it feels
forced and fake -- you're involving active processing from your CPU in a loop
that for most is damn near reflexive. And yes -- they notice, but it probably
doesn't pass their "geez, look at that weirdo" threshold, so you're good. And
an original thought or two will endear you to them.

The good news is you have considerable brain circuitry freed up to apply to
things that interest you -- like assembly programming and learning Japanese.
Suitably trained, this circuitry can be quite powerful. And you can even spot
patterns in people's social behavior that others may miss. Because allistics
are hardwired for sociality, their consciousness itself is shaped by social
cues to a much greater extent. Increased resistance to the effects of things
like advertising is damn near a superpower in its own right in today's world.

That said, _being_ Japanese would be extraordinarily difficult for the likes
of you. If you thought Western society was tough, wait till you try
participating in a society where social harmony and group consensus are _the_
bedrock of the entire friggin' nation. I do not envy Japanese people on the
spectrum even a wee tiny bit.

~~~
wst_
I beg to disagree. About Japanese society and cooping strategies, that is.

I let myself to generalize a bit and say that most of the people on the
spectrum feels well in more or less rigid, closed set of social rules. The
more logical the better. In reality, a lot of awkwardness comes from the fact
that daily human to human behavioral protocol is very open. Anything may
happen and it feels overwhelming just to think about all the possibilities a
conversation may leads to.

Japanese society is normalized to the point that the citizens may feel upset
just by the fact that they are in certain situation and there is no how-to
around. People are following social rules everywhere. Japanese society is
strictly formalized and everyone is expected to behave properly in given
situation. You go to restaurant and you don't have to wonder how much should
you tip to the waiter. You don't tip. Simple as that - that's the rule.
They've made a lot practical improvements to make the daily struggle as easy
as possible. They are always avoiding conflict. When someone step on someone's
shoe in metro they say "sorry" (both of them!) and go on. There is no
ambiguity in your daily life.

More of it. Being socially awkward is perfectly acceptable or at least
tolerated. I am talking about bigger cities, of course. You can walk the
streets of Shibuya in a diving suit and no one would say a word. You can
refrain from talking to people, too.

They are, almost naively, honest and even Tokyo - 38M people, 13M in the city
- is so safe, that you can leave your bag to reserve a table in the crowded
fast food and go to the counter to make an order. No one will take it. No one
will abuse you and you don't have a reason to feel vulnerable.

If there's a rule, so it is. People are obeying the law and keeping to the
rules. This is extremely safe environment for people on the spectrum.

One thing that is usually omitted in any analysis is the weather. Seems non
important. But if we consider that ASD is commonly accompanied by depression
and/or anxiety I'm willing to weight a weather as a factor. The thing is that
winter is almost non existent in Tokyo and to the south. But, what is more
important, there is sunny all year long. All year long you have something in
the air that will brighten up your day. Just imagine that - plum trees are
blooming in February. November and full sun so you can wear t-shirt and
hoodie? Go ahead, at least in Tokyo. Much easier to keep in good shape then,
say, in London when most days are gloomy.

Of course no country's perfect. What I've said above is the norm, but there
are always some exceptions. Big cities are loud and bright. Sensory issues may
be problematic. Some rules are less logical that it seems. Japanese language
is not direct and sometimes people are expected to notice when should they
react.

I do agree that Japan is not country for everyone but as long as ASD goes I'd
rather say it is better suited for people on the spectrum that we may suspect.
Especially for foreigners as we are naturally allowed to make mistakes.

~~~
bitwize
Yes, Japanese society is bound by rules. But the rules are many, complex, and
often obscure, and ordinary Japanese are expected to _infer_ many of them.
What's worse, one of the biggest overarching rules is "it is better to
preserve social harmony and/or not risk embarrassment than to engage in honest
discussion". Which means compared to Westerners, Japanese people rarely talk
about their true feelings. Which means the feelings of everyone around you,
the very basis of your social status which itself determines which book of
rules you apply, must _also_ be inferred.

This makes ordinary life a considerable struggle for socially deficient
people. The much greater difficulty finding your social bearings in Japanese
society and successfully putting on an appropriate performance may itself
explain why otaku and hikikomori are such a huge phenomenon in Japan. In fact
the 80s, when fans met at cons and such, they would always address each other
in the most formal terms possible -- with the polite pronoun "otaku" \-- to
avoid offense, because it was difficult to see where the dividing lines were
to _stop_ being so formal. But this behavior was _still_ considered weird and
idiosyncratic enough among mainstream Japanese to give them the distinct name
of "otaku".

Japan is lovely, but being Japanese is hard.

~~~
lunchables
>What's worse, one of the biggest overarching rules is "it is better to
preserve social harmony and/or not risk embarrassment than to engage in honest
discussion". Which means compared to Westerners, Japanese people rarely talk
about their true feelings.

Which is where the Japanese concept of honne and tatemae come from:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae)

------
rbavocadotree
I'm glad the article takes time to explain the negatives as well. My SO works
with kids on the spectrum. For every kid that has their city's entire transit
system memorized, there are another 10 who will be unable to function for the
rest of the day if their classmates do not exit the classroom for recess in
the expected order.

The 'financial-math-numbers-wizard' is absolutely the very rare exception. For
the vast majority it is an extreme struggle, for both the child and their
family.

~~~
curun1r
> The 'financial-math-numbers-wizard' is absolutely the very rare exception

One of the points in the article is exactly the opposite of this
observation...that ASD is far more common than most people believe it to be.
The difference is that the vast majority of those with autism can pass and
silently struggle with the negatives of their condition. Your SO deals with
those who can't pass and have the more pronounced form of the condition.
There's a selection bias by the simple fact that they end up in her class that
creates that 10::1 you describe even though the 1 will be much more common in
the overall population.

I can see that pushing the savant angle of the condition can be
counterproductive, especially to those whose form of ASD often prevents them
from being functional. But so is the "it's rare" narrative that leads people
who can pass to struggle with not understanding themselves. As the article
points out, nearly 2% of people have some form of ASD. For that to be the
case, the vast majority of them have to appear mostly normal from the outside.

~~~
rbavocadotree
> vast majority of those with autism can pass and silently struggle with the
> negatives of their condition

This is not true. The article says only 16% can hold a fulltime job. Most of
those are jobs requiring the absolute minimal skillsets.

> As the article points out, nearly 2% of people have some form of ASD. For
> that to be the case, the vast majority of them have to appear mostly normal
> from the outside.

It may sadden you to know the staggering amount of adults with ASD that have
essentially been removed from society. They do not appear normal, and as a
consequence they do not appear in society at all.

~~~
curun1r
> The article says only 16% can hold a fulltime job

That’s 16% of those _diagnosed_ with ASD. For one, the vast majority of the
current workforce came of age before the DSM reclassified autism as a spectrum
disorder. So many of those with milder symptoms who sought out therapy as kids
could easily go undiagnosed. I know this personally as someone diagnosed as an
adult who grew up as a child of a psychologist and was sent to multiple
therapists. I’m perfectly capable of maintaining a career and wouldn’t have
even thought to seek out a diagnosis as an adult had I not had a conversation
with my mom about the reclassification.

Having worked in tech, I can tell you there’s a huge group of undiagnosed ASD
workers like me who are quite able to hold down a job and excel but still
exhibit milder symptoms of the disorder.

------
SolaceQuantum
FYI: This is an article about people who exist on the autism spectrum, as
described by someone who is a parent of a daughter with autism and moves to
investigate how autism functions in the workplace- mostly focused on finance.
The writer themselves does not appear to have autism and is mostly interested
in describing the phenomenon from first-hand accounts mixed with known public
figures and pop culture depictions.

~~~
toomuchtodo
Any resources you’d suggest for someone whose daughter might be on the
spectrum?

Edit: Thank you for the replies, they are very helpful.

~~~
SolaceQuantum
I would generally suggest the Autistic Self Advocacy Network (ASAN)'s
resources page since I don't know specifically what you're looking for.

As a side note, and I assume you already know this but I'd like for it to be
stated often enough such that it is widepsreadly known: Depending on the age
of your daughter, I understand it is significantly important that she be
diagnosed officially or ruled out of autism as early as reasonable. If she has
autism, an official diagnosis is one of the only ways to recieve appropriate
educational/occupational support as she goes through public/private schooling
and higher education which would greatly improve chances of being able to
comply with societal standards for productive membership.

~~~
rbavocadotree
Correct. And all research points towards the earlier she gets support the
better. Early meaning by 18 months or so.

~~~
jaf656s
There are also a lot of resources for therapy for young children if they are
diagnosed early.

In California, you can start receiving state funded therapy at 18 months.

------
PeterStuer
At uni I spent two years as the president of the computer science student
society. I can assure you 80% of the members could be diagnosed with autism
spectrum disorders, going from mild to serious. Coordinating and leading in
such an environment requires a different approach. Any manager running a small
to medium software business/startup/scale up that does not feel comfortable
dealing with aspys will not be a good match.

~~~
yellowarchangel
The article mentions how a very small fraction of adults have jobs, and who
are diagnosed with being on the autism spectrum. I wonder how accurate that
number is, or how far on the spectrum the individuals in that study are. It
seems like a lot of great tech minds have some form of autism.

------
chad_strategic
Hmmm... I was just obsessed over solving a futures algorithm. (In which I
haven't been paid for.) Became anxiousness when I was away from the computer.
Slept only 5 hours until it was solved. I wouldn't have had to stress so hard,
if a good project brief from the client, but regardless. I was more interested
in the solving the problem, than the economic benefits. I write stock/options
in the evening for fun.

I'm moderately introverted. But don't do poorly in social situations / or
awkward. However dealing with clients, has really prevented me from starting
my own firm.

I wouldn't say that I have Asperger's, but I might have mild tendencies?
Labels really don't matter as it is more important to know one's strengths and
weakness. That's the key I take away from the article.

But I can relate to some of this.

I work with other programmers who might think they have Asperger, but in
actuality I think they are just probably dochce bags. :)

~~~
pier25
> _However dealing with clients, has really prevented me from starting my own
> firm._

Some people have a natural talent for that, but for most of us this is a
difficult skill that has to be learned. I doubt this is related to any
disorder.

I've been dealing with clients as a freelancer and when I owned a small web
dev shop. I don't think I'm particularly good at it, but at least I feel a lot
more confident than when I was in my 20s.

I think the most challenging aspect is being able to know how and when to move
between different "buckets" of communication styles and adapt your language.
For example, it's common for clients to not tell you when they aren't
understanding something and you have to react to that.

It becomes easier as you get to know a client and he gets to know you better
over time, but those first meetings are always difficult, at least for me.

------
ranger207
Autism is called a disorder, but I think that that's a pretty negative term
for it. People with autism may be a minority, and that makes the condition
abnormal, but in itself autism isn't a bad thing; it's how they relate to the
world that make autism "bad." Instead autism is merely different.

I think we can treat autism like any other subject. For example, some children
start reading earlier than others, and other than extreme cases we don't say
that they have a reading disorder. We simply recognize that some people have
more difficulty than others learning to read. Can we do the same with social
skills? Simply have a dedicated class with structured learning, and recognize
that not everyone learns social cues at the same rate?

~~~
cr0sh
I'm worried that the (fairly) recent change to the DSM to lump the various
forms of autism under the terminology of "autism spectrum disorder" will
ultimately lead to more confusion by people as to what autism can be about.

Which is why in the article it was mentioned that many who are "high
functioning individuals with autism" hang on to the term "Asperger's" (despite
some trolls re-renderings of it) - as it was and is a label that, perhaps
incorrectly, has been applied to that particular subset of autism spectrum
disorders.

At the same time, we don't want to say that those in that sub-group only have
issues with social skills and cues; the issues that such people face are much
broader than just that particular area.

Also, we don't want the term "autism" applied only to those who are in that
set either.

That is perhaps what the terminology change was about - the idea that by
inserting the word "spectrum" into the diagnosis, and removing the individual
terms, that people would see it more as a continuum diagnosis, much like
Asperger saw it. However, people will likely tend to focus on the first word
"Autism" and come to a different conclusion - maybe. Which is again why, I
suspect, people have hung on to the "Asperger's" label for their particular
subset.

Maybe there's not a good answer or solution for the definition(s)...

~~~
bena
We're also refining our understanding of autism as well.

When we refer to the "autism spectrum", most people think of it like two
points on a scale. From 0 to 100. You are 30% autistic. Or you're 75%
autistic.

That is not the case.

It's why we say "If you've met one person with autism, you've met one person
with autism".

Autism more refers to a certain group of developmental delays and processing
issues. Being "on the spectrum" means you exhibit one or more of these traits.
You can be a high-functioning person with autism who has sensory processing
issues. But you can be completely verbal, pick up on social cues, etc.

Or you can miss social cues, have no problem with sensory processing.

Or you can miss cues _and_ have sensory issues.

Autism is complicated. And we're just now really digging into it and
discovering what it means.

------
einpoklum
> People with Asperger’s syndrome... bring serious advantages to the financial
> markets: ... a strong sense of logic, and an intense belief in fairness and
> justice.

If that were true they would never accept work in the finance sector. Or would
resign in disgust soon after being hired.

~~~
thundergolfer
Even if it were true I’m confused about how it’s an advantage. Maybe it leads
them to seek out financial foul-play more enthusiastically and thus more often
profit when they find it and short it?

------
andy_ppp
We had someone go completely mental at a manager on Slack the other day with
the whole team on the same channel. Respect to the manager he simply kept say
the equivalent of “I understand where your coming from and it wasn’t my
intention to upset you” even though the guy kept saying terrible things about
the manager. I will aim to be that calm if aggressively accused in future,
especially as you end up coming out of it looking better and feeling more
relaxed that the alternative.

~~~
CydeWeys
The second it starts going off the rails it needs to be switched over to a
private conversation, ideally face-to-face but by videoconference otherwise if
someone is remote.

That's bad form on both people's part to have that kind of argument in a
public forum.

~~~
whywhywhywhy
> The second it starts going off the rails it needs to be switched over to a
> private conversation

Can be just as bad, theres an exec where I work who has taken a disliking to
me and I'd much rather when he goes off on one it takes place in Google docs
comments where other people can see it and see what he's like than in a
private Slack convo where only I see it.

~~~
CydeWeys
I was saying to de-escalate in private, not escalate in private. This exec
you're dealing with sounds terrible, and depending on how often you have to
deal with him, might be worth finding a new job over.

~~~
andy_ppp
Yup, I would just ask him outright how you can improve your working
relationship. Being direct with people like that often might not work in the
moment but saying things like “I don’t think we understand where each other
are coming from” could get him thinking. It’s unlikely to work however so look
to the job market while things are good.

------
matchagaucho
Wow.... this strikes me as a really insensitive clickbait headline.

I've had the privilege of managing SW Engineers who've confided in me their
diagnosis of Aspergers or Autism.

Over time, I've generally helped Engineers understand that doing "deep work"
is a characteristic of the craft and not an _illness_.

Most Psychology books and Academics have been back peddling on the definition
of Autism in recent years.

------
thtthings
Please enlighten me. I want to be educated. According to me our mind is very
fluid. We can teach it to behave a certain way. I do not believe that someone
is awkward socially or cannot get caught in mania etc just because they are
the way they are. All of this is learned behavior according to me. Why is it
that most of these people are in the US? It seems to me because the
environment makes people act this way. I do not think that this is because of
genetics. If we mediate then we can look at the mind as an observer and change
most if not all of our behavior. When someone gets a diagnosis for say ADHD.
Then they exhibit those symptoms even more because they reinforce that
behavior.

put these people in a situation that the only way to survive is to socialize,
i am pretty sure they will be very charming because we are capable of doing a
lot if our survival is at stake.

Here i am not talking about people with mental illness. Those i understand.
Please help me understand this

~~~
freehunter
What you're claiming is that every mind, absent of mental illness, can behave
exactly the same way given the same set of conditions. To start with, I'd like
to see any proof that you have saying this is true. As far as I know, we don't
know the brain well enough to say that is true, but also as far as I know we
know enough about the brain to say that is likely _not_ true. If you know
otherwise, feel free to link some sources.

The second thing I see wrong here is that you say "I'm not talking about
mental illness" but you're talking about ADHD which is a mental illness [1] as
is austism [2].

Brains are fluid, yes. Up to a certain point. At a certain age, brain
plasticity slows down and changing behaviors becomes harder. This is why kids
can learn so fast, but adults have a harder time. Other behaviors are subject
to environment yes, but are still difficult to change. If I talked to a
stranger and was then mugged by that stranger, I am going to be less likely to
talk to strangers in the future. There is a whole field of science dedicated
to overcoming these kinds of learned behaviors, and it is very difficult and
time consuming. It is very difficult to unlearn behaviors we have already
learned.

But ultimately, "if our survival is at stake" isn't the situation most people
find themselves in. If I am socially awkward, I'm not likely to die because of
it. I might be uncomfortable, but survival is not at stake. 100 years ago we
would tie the dominant hand of left-handed people behind their back and force
them to write with their right hand. Did it work? Sure. Was it necessary for
survival? Not a bit. Did it cause more problems than it solved? You bet it
did.

[1] [https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-
conditions/ADH...](https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-
conditions/ADHD)

[2] [https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-
conditions/aut...](https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-
conditions/autism)

~~~
thtthings
I am just proposing a different point of view and i am not claiming what i am
saying is right. I am here to learn and what you say makes sense. Your point
about adults learn slow is it because that't what the popular opinion is and
that is the reason they tell themselves, "oh, i am a grown up so i am going to
learn slowly"?

[https://medium.com/@chacon/mit-scientists-prove-adults-
learn...](https://medium.com/@chacon/mit-scientists-prove-adults-learn-
language-to-fluency-nearly-as-well-as-children-1de888d1d45f)

------
wglb
Related to this is one of my favorite articles:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-...](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/03/caring-
for-your-introvert/302696/). A year ago, my wife and I ran into a friend of
hers who seemed hard to get to know better. On a hunch, I pulled up this
article, and she scrolled through it and was like "yup, yup, yup, yup". She
hadn't been able to articulate that for herself.

A related book is
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet:_The_Power_of_Introverts...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet:_The_Power_of_Introverts_in_a_World_That_Can%27t_Stop_Talking).
The title kind of says it all.

~~~
yasp
My understanding is that most people with ASD are in fact not "natural"
introverts, perversely enough. That is to say, were it not for their poor
social skills, they would be extroverts.

~~~
sylk
Rings true for me, I've worked hard to socialize and try to talk to a stranger
everyday for at least 30 minutes. It's painless now, and I'm loving where I've
come along my journey. It's been hard, but really well worth it.

It all started with me working in a call center 7 years ago...

------
wisty
> Statistics I uncovered were deeply disturbing — fewer than 16 percent of
> adults diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder were employed full-time, for
> example.

Autism has changed its definition though. Adults with autism are often
diagnosed under the old criteria and are extreme, often barely verbal. Now
that Asperger's (and a couple of other milder types) are rolled into autism
(stuff that older people didn't bother diagnosing - functional people didn't
need diagnoses back before every kid with a diagnosed got funded) you'd expect
better outcomes because it's not just the extreme non-functional ones getting
diagnosed.

------
amai
It‘s the normal people that need treatment, not the abnormal ones.

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gist
Love the way people seem to believe they have to walk on eggshells when
someone is 'on the spectrum'. I wonder what is done if a person on the
spectrum is accused of some form of sexual assault or reasonably offensive
language. Do they get a pass because of that behavior?

~~~
dymk
I've never, in my life, seen or heard an individual with Aspergers getting a
free pass on sexual assault.

James Damore was fired from Google for his offensive language.

------
wst_
The web page got really slow. I suspect it got viral and can't handle the
traffic.

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stephc_int13
I can easily imagine a future where people on the spectrum are more than half
of the workforce of some companies.

Simply because it's generally easier and more efficient for Aspies to work
with other Aspies.

And I think that might open a whole new range of problems...

------
tabtab
Vulcans in the world of Ferengis.

