
Reset C by GE Light Bulbs [video] - starman100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BB6wj6RyKo
======
throwaway34241
I've had these bulbs and done this reset process more times than I can count.
For _years_ the software was some of the worst I've ever used.

It would constantly lose pairing with the bulbs. In order to re-pair with the
bulbs, all the bulbs had to be reset individually using this process, and then
all configuration had to be deleted from the app and every bulb needed to be
re-added as a new bulb. Pairing was error-prone. Firmware updates would
constantly fail.

Not only that, but initially the software didn't even support turning them on
or changing the color on a schedule, despite the hardware being capable of it
(they added the feature later). If basic things like schedules don't work what
is even the point of smart bulbs?

Looking at this error message from the app [1] might give you an idea of how
sloppy their SW was. This isn't from the first version either.

After they added schedules it was a bit better since you could just set one
and not touch it. And after _years_ they've fixed some of the major bugs.

I still think smart lights are useful. Setting the lights to turn on in the
morning (as a substitute for an alarm clock) is very nice, as well as changing
to a warmer color temperature in the evening. But switches are superior to
phones for just turning the lights on and off IMO. I think an ideal smart
light system would use switches to turn them on and set brightness/color
temperature, and only use the phone for advanced things like scheduling.

[1] [https://imgur.com/a/Uauynh6](https://imgur.com/a/Uauynh6)

~~~
justwalt
Oh my goodness. Why did you put up with that for so long? Surely there are
other bulbs that are just as capable and don't come with this ridiculous
software.

------
jjoonathan
Labeled Buttons >> Unlabeled Hieroglyphs >> Morse Code Button >> Morse Code
Side Channel

Why do I so often find products where the designers have chosen a less usable
option even though size constraints would have easily permitted a more usable
option? Here it's debatable, but every time I find a desktop app / website
that has replaced labeled buttons with hieroglyphs in a hamburger menu I die a
little inside.

Also, while this light bulb is bad, I feel like bluetooth earbuds still take
the cake for having the worst interfaces. They combine the undiscoverable and
difficult-to-actuate morse code button with a slow, obtuse interactive voice
menu and bluetooth's unreliability and incompatibility to create a modern
interaction hell like no other.

~~~
gumby
>Labeled Buttons >> Unlabeled Hieroglyphs >> Morse Code Button >> Morse Code
Side Channel > Why do I so often find products where the designers have chosen
a less usable option even though size constraints would have easily permitted
a more usable option?

I assume the designers were responding to management's insistence of reducing
BOM costs.

And by "designer" we're talking about EEs -- high volume low-cost hardware
applications rarely have any UI team at all.

------
notatoad
I have some GE smart lightbulbs and i've never needed to reset them. People
seem eager to mock this, but i don't see the problem. it's a (hopefully)
rarely used procedure that you wouldn't want to be accidentally triggered, on
an item that's very price sensitive. A physical reset button would
significantly add to the cost of a part that sells for <$15.

If anything, be happy that GE has not only engineered a reset procedure, but
they also publish it. The most likely alternative to this is not a button but
rather no published reset at all, and just call the part disposable.

~~~
shakna
However, they recognised the complexity of the reset process, and that
customers may have a more-significant-than-none need for a reset. (A simple
example that occurred to me: Lost/destroyed phone).

This video was the result.

A professionally filmed video, even with low needs such as this one, also come
with significant costs, as well as the PR fallout when people realise it's
absurdly complicated compared to pressing a button with a toothpick. (As well
as the support fielding they may have to end up doing).

The BOM cost of the hardware in the bulb is closely accounted for in most
products like this, but it seems the cost savings on the BOM weren't accounted
for elsewhere.

~~~
jarfil
A surface mounted switch and a tiny hole in the casing would be easy and
cheap... but it would ruin waterproofing, which would make the bulb unsuitable
for places like a bathroom. That's probably too big of a market to lose just
to simplify a reset procedure that will rarely be used.

~~~
kalleboo
The hole method become a problem when your only fixtures are embedded/in the
ceiling and you can’t reach it.

Some people will end up using a metal hairpin... next to an live, exposed
Edison socket

Some LED lights also get quite warm

------
alkonaut
Stop buying smart bulbs. It’s an absolutely _horrible idea_ from beginning to
end. What people want is a way to switch a lamp on and off. For that you need
a _smart switch_. For it to work you can’t have a dumb switch in your wall
first - because when the dumb switch is in the “off” position, the smart
lightbulb doesn’t work!

What do people that buy smart bulbs do, tape their light switches in the “on”
position so you can no longer use the most convenient way to switch off? Or do
they eventually get a smart switch _also_ thereby removing the need for a
smart bulb (yes I know there is things like dimming and rgb, but let’s face it
the killer application of smartness is _switching_ ).

If someone had pitched the hue to me 20 years ago I would have laughed. But
apparently I misjudged what people want - so why are they popular? Has anyone
met everyone that said “I switched all my bulbs to smart ones with dumb
switches and it’s great”? Sorry for the rant but I just feel that _this_ isn’t
what’s stupid about smart bulbs. The idea itself is fundamentally flawed or I
completely missed the point.

~~~
gambiting
1) we have one in our bedroom - wife loves to crotchet in bed, but of course
then inevitably I'm the one being kicked out of the bed to switch the light
off. Smart bulb solved that issue, I can just switch it off from my phone.

2) yeah smart switches sound great but it's physically impossible to get them
installed in the UK thanks to the unique way our electrical wiring is done -
the switch on the wall only has the positive terminal in, the ground is wired
directly into the bulb socket. So smart switches just don't work as they don't
have anywhere to pull their own electricity from.

~~~
segfaultbuserr
> _the switch on the wall only has the positive terminal in, the ground is
> wired directly into the bulb socket._

This is the standard practice in many countries. Wiring the return wire is
unnecessary.

> _So smart switches just don 't work._

This is false.

There are remote controlled switches that are designed to work with a single
wire. I have one right now in my room, they utilize an energy-harvesting
circuit to obtain energy from the changing magnetic field surrounding the AC
line to charge a capacitor to power itself. Also, it uses 433 MHz RF, so it
means it doesn't have Linux and IoT craps embedded inside, no firmware
upgrade, no factory reset.

Yet, I can capture the control sequence using RTL-SDR, and use a 1$ RF
transmitter from my Raspberry Pi to control my light programmatically if I
want, though I never needed to, fortunately.

~~~
gambiting
Interesting, but I suppose I got something wrong then, as there must be a
reason why pretty much no company offers smart switches in the UK market even
when they have smart switches in other markets.

~~~
segfaultbuserr
> _no company offers smart switches in the UK market even when they have smart
> switches in other markets._

Honestly I don't know, I'm not sure about the UK.

Perhaps those "smart" switches can't be powered by this technique due to their
higher power consumption? But then, why can't one just use dumb RF switches,
and put the heavy-duty digital "brain" inside a separate unit as I suggested?
Because the encoding scheme doesn't scale? But it should...

In all possible ways, the same principle should be fully applicable in the
UK... Sorry, I don't understand, it should be answered by someone who knows
better than me...

------
fortran77
Is this really the best way they could come up with? I do understand the
problem though. And why did they change the pattern between firmware versions?
Were they getting false hits, or was it just too hard to do?

This is a lightbulb! Who is the intended audience. The Internet of Things
really isn't ready for the general public.

~~~
seren
As a software guy working on embedded systems, working with HW guys, more
often than not the SW is always considered "free" while the cost of the BOM is
always scrutinized to the cent.

I am pretty sure in this instance the initial design had a reset button, and
someone had the great idea to remove it to gain a few cents.

Be sure that the people working are sure this is a really poor design, but
often cost considerations trump common sense.

~~~
bdamm
My bets are that the firmware developers never had a problem because they're
JTAG'd, simulated, or running insecure firmware with a built-in back door, and
it wasn't until late in the product cycle where the need was even discovered
(likely by a QA team.) At _that_ point, this is the best they could come up
with.

~~~
seren
This could also be possible and more charitable for the poor HW guys I have
denigrated, but at some point, someone (Product Manager?) has decided to go
ahead with that weird pattern, which seems a bit odd.

------
morpheuskafka
Was it really to expensive to add a cheap button? It's not like it needs to be
pressed more than once or twice per product lifetime.

~~~
Xylakant
I don’t own any smart lightbulbs, but my flat’s ceiling is at about 3,90m and
getting a ladder out for every reset would be tedious. This would work
without.

~~~
Hamuko
I'd rather throw a brick at the bulb than do this.

~~~
nothal
Interestingly, their target demographic is specifically people who wouldn't do
that.

~~~
Hamuko
Buddhist monks?

------
tzs
OT: I've noticed that my local Walmart has the GE bulbs. They are over in the
lighting section, out on the shelves with the non-smart bulbs. If you want
them, you just toss them in your cart and go pay for them at the regular
checkout.

They also have smart bulbs by Philips, TP-Link/Kasa, and Merkury Innovations--
and all of these are in a locked display over in the electronics section. If
you want them, you have to find an employee in electronics to unlock the
display and grab them for you, and then you have to pay for them at the
checkout in electronics. They won't let you just toss them in your cart and
pay at the regular checkout.

Finally, they also have some Monster smart light products, which are in the
electronics section, but not in a locked display, so you can buy them without
assistance.

I have not been able to figure out any good reason for the different smart
bulbs to be in different sections like this, or for some to be locked up and
some not.

------
TeMPOraL
For people who actually need to do this, there is an automated solution
available: [https://hackaday.io/project/166216-ge-smart-lightbulb-
resete...](https://hackaday.io/project/166216-ge-smart-lightbulb-reseter)

h/t @deshipu (the author) over at Mastodon.

------
stevebmark
Which episode of SNL did this air on? Hilarious writing

------
Theodores
Do people buy smart lightbulbs these days? Is there any innovation to drive
sales?

In the olden days they would be part of your weekly shop, somewhere in the
house a bulb would need replacing or you would be running low on them. Maybe
'weekly shop' is overstating it, but you wouldn't want to be without a spare
bulb on hand.

All of those filament bulbs have been replaced. The lights you have are the
lights you have. People that wanted the smart bulbs must have got them by now,
old timers who don't care for such things are not going to get them. The old
user interface of the switch on the wall is what most people want. The idea of
having to get your phone out to turn on a light isn't of appeal to those okay
with the existing arrangements. This is particularly so in the world of light
pollution where it is never truly dark in built up areas.

I notice some people in the comments talk about replacing all the bulbs to
smart bulbs. In America it is okay to just do this but in more frugal parts of
the world there would be the aspect of waste to consider - never mind expense.
Ad-hoc replacement of filament bulbs that blow with novelty smart bulbs is one
thing but chucking out perfectly fit for purpose bulbs to get smart bulbs
isn't how people do things outside America. Exceptions to this are when
getting a new house but the housing market is kaput at the moment in most of
Europe.

How is this smart bulb market going? Has it reached a plateau with everyone
who wants them having them and the market declining? Or are these new bulbs
that don't need a Hue base station making it happen?

------
karmakaze
> ...the software...

I thought it was already bad when our DVRs, TVs, cars and personal electronics
take time to 'boot' because they're running OSes. Now were at the point where
we'll put software into just about anything and deal with the fallout. The IoT
age is about to be a very inconvenient one.

------
foobarbecue
I really thought this was a parody.

~~~
codetrotter
Yeah it’s actually hilarious. It’s like something straight out of an Adult
Swim show.

Cheerful music, complicated and obviously error prone procedure, narrator that
sounds really happy about what they’ve done here. The added text in the
description about the firmware version.

Life is stranger than fiction sometimes. I love it. Oh and I’m never buying GE
smart bulbs lol.

~~~
didgeoridoo
All I could think of was The IT Crowd:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ab8GtuPdrUQ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ab8GtuPdrUQ)

------
beering
I don't see why this is so bad. You just have to follow along with the video
for ~1 min. and depending on your lighting setup, it allows you to reset many
lights at once without getting a ladder or stepstool and physically poking
each one.

~~~
TeMPOraL
The person in the video actually doesn't follow the timing precisely,
repeatedly turning the bulb off after ~7 - 7.5 seconds. I wonder what
tolerances are on timing in the firmware?

------
Animats
Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, Start.

------
salex89
Was a pinhole reset button so hard to implement?

~~~
foobarbecue
Yeah, it would be. You want the user to stick their hand up in a lamp, with
the power on? And try to poke a button with a sharp metal object?

I suppose you could add a big capacitor or battery so that it could be reset
when not in the lamp, but that is non-trivial.

~~~
segfaultbuserr
Perhaps you could use an on/off switch, and do something like this.

    
    
        function power_on() {
            bool sw_pos_last = eeprom_read(SWITCH_LASTBOOT);
            bool sw_pos_now = input_read(SWITCH);
            if (sw_pos_last != sw_pos_now) {
                eeprom_write(SWITCH_LASTBOOT, sw_pos_now);
                factory_reset();
            }
        }
    

To reset, simply turn it off, press the switch, turn it on, done!

No power is needed to latch a reset request when the bulb is disconnected.
Seems easy and straightforward, at worst you need to power the bulb on/off
several times.

> _I suppose you could add a big capacitor or battery so that it could be
> reset when not in the lamp, but that is non-trivial._

Even if you go this way with only a momentary switch, it's not trivial, but I
don't think it's rocket science either, just an example to make the point:
using a flip-flop and a 100 uF capacitor, with an isolated Vcc supply (can be
supplied by the MCU). The flip-flop draws 1 mA of current at 5 volt, you press
a reset switch to invert the flip-flop, when the bulb is turned on later, the
MCU would read a different state and trigger the factory reset. 100 uF would
give the user at least 2 minutes to react, assuming the worst capacitor. To
detect the power loss of the flip-flop, use a comparator before MCU reapplies
the power, the cost is less than 1 USD, and I bet the electronics engineers
can come up with a even better solution.

~~~
foobarbecue
Well that's a very good design.

------
alcrastaz
Cant use these bulbs for light signaling!!

------
chupa-chups
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20242805](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20242805)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20244885](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20244885)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20235376](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20235376)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20235221](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20235221)

~~~
tntn
what is the point of linking to submissions with no discussion.

~~~
fortran77
People get angry that their submission didn’t get them the worthless internet
points and this one did.

~~~
abledon
when people look over my coworkers shoulder and see his 23K HN point count at
the top of his screen, they acknowledge hes calling the shots in code reviews.

~~~
dfc
Are you serious? This sounds like an awful workplace.

~~~
abledon
lol no im joking, but that would be hilarious if true

