
Confirm or Deny: Peter Thiel - taylorbuley
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/fashion/peter-thiel-confirm-or-deny.html
======
SkyMarshal
_" Maureen Dowd: California should secede.

Peter Thiel: Confirm. I’d be fine with that. I think it would be good for
California, good for the rest of the country. It would help Mr. Trump’s re-
election campaign."_

I don't see how the world's ~sixth largest economy succeeding from the world's
1st/2nd largest is good for the latter.

 _" You like “Star Trek” more than “Star Wars.”

Deny. I like “Star Wars” way better. I’m a capitalist. “Star Wars” is the
capitalist show. “Star Trek” is the communist one. There is no money in “Star
Trek” because you just have the transporter machine that can make anything you
need. The whole plot of “Star Wars” starts with Han Solo having this debt that
he owes and so the plot in “Star Wars” is driven by money._"

I hope he's just trolling here. Preferring a future of the same old debtors
and creditors as today, to one where plentiful energy can be transformed into
any kind of matter the human race needs, eliminating the need for money?

Edit: actually he didn't say anything preferring one future or the other, so
maybe he just likes Star Wars b/c it's more relatable to present day.

~~~
rchaud
>I don't see how the world's ~sixth largest economy succeeding from the
world's 1st/2nd largest is good for the latter.

Seems clear to me. California, like Texas, has the largest concentration of
Electoral College votes within a single state. While TX is reliably
Republican, CA is reliably Democrat. Since Trump lost the popular vote by a
large margin, a CA-exit would be highly beneficial to his re-election efforts.

CA is obviously an economically important state and a CA-exit would be
enormously disruptive to the US economy. That said, the impacts might not be
felt by the time the re-election campaign begins.

And even if they are felt by that time, the current state of American civic
literacy, combined with the disproportionate size of older voter blocs is
still enough to win elections by ignoring the reality of automation on jobs
and blaming weak job markets on globalization, immigration and trade deals.

~~~
SkyMarshal
You only explained how CA's succession would benefit Trump, not America. Trump
!= America.

------
comboy
This kind of interview seems like a great idea. Information density is way
higher than in a standard one.

~~~
adamsea
Respectfully I disagree. Yes, there is higher information density, but it is
about information which actually obscures and hides important knowledge
(information with context) and discussions which people need to have.

I say this because the only reason this article exists is due to Thiel's
support of the Trump administration, and thus his association with it's
controversial (the wall, deporting muslims, etc) policies and Trump's
controversial public statements and persona.

I would have preferred to see substantive questions addressing this stuff
posed. Maureen Dowd was interviewing one of the most powerful people in the
country.

Instead, we get information, but the value of that information is
questionable.

I read the interview as "normalizing" Thiel - like, "Hey, this guy likes stuff
to!"

Nothing inherently wrong with that but the Fourth Estate needs to do more.

~~~
rchaud
This was in the Style section, so I suppose they have to humanize their
subjects, even if the subject is a reclusive billionaire whose daily life does
not even remotely resemble ours.

------
davidcollantes
> There is no money in “Star Trek” because you just have the transporter
> machine that can make anything you need.

Gasp! They are replicators, no transporters. :-)

~~~
dragonwriter
Also, while the Federation (at least canonically from some time in TNG on;
there is conflicting evidence in TOS and maybe early TNG before Roddenberry
laid down the law on the issue) doesn't use money internally in _Star Trek_ ,
there is money, financial transactions, and the aspiration to and acquisition
of property in use and driving plots in _Trek_ , particularly DS9, including
where main characters who are Federation citizens are involved.

------
ElijahLynn
Should I have respect for Peter Thiel in him trying to help Trump? It is odd,
maybe he is playing Trump, maybe Elon is too?

I feel like even talking to Trump validates his lies and just disgusting moral
integrity of what it means to be American.

~~~
cgag
If you already respect Thiel then I don't see him working with the president
to steer things being a reason to stop.

~~~
ryandamm
I suppose if you already respect Thiel you have already given him a pass for
his misogynistic and racist statements in the libertarian press. So yeah, less
to forgive in his support of Trump.

But then again, you'd have to overlook his incorrect views on things like
macroeconomics (Clarium was quite the hedge fund!).

I like the Bezos quote, frankly. I think it sums up Thiel well. As a startup
investor, you only have to be right a few times, and being wrong doesn't hurt
that much.

Sadly, governing -- and choosing our represented leaders -- comes with higher
stakes and worse outcomes.

~~~
cgag
Can you link a few racist or misogynistic links? I generally like thiel. I'm
open to not liking thiel but I suspect I might interpret him differently.

~~~
ryandamm
'The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be
genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare
beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies
that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of
“capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.'

[1]: [https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-
thiel/educatio...](https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-
thiel/education-libertarian)

I suppose there are different ways to read that, but Thiel doesn't believe
democracy with universal suffrage leads to the best outcomes. I disagree.

------
pdog
Is _Confirm or Deny_ a regular thing? This is an interesting format for print
interviews.

~~~
grzm
Google tells me Dowd's done this at least once before, with André Leon Talley:

[https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/fashion/confirm-or-
deny-a...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/fashion/confirm-or-deny-andre-
leon-talley.html)

------
lightedman
" There is no money in “Star Trek” "

Hi, my name is gold-pressed latinum.

~~~
dragonwriter
Or, earlier, "Federation credits".

------
gerby
Peter Thiel is a nobleman in my eyes. His type of Philanthropy, is the type of
Philanthropy that doesn't leave the worlds innovators and statistical
anomalies behind. I've encountered far more respect from Peters team and his
network than I've encountered from any potential investors, anywhere. Within
10 minutes of contacting a Thiel-network firm, I had a meeting (next Monday).
I'm also a guy who's lived 50-75% below the poverty line for _years_ to get my
innovation to the point where it's a once-in-a-generation startup, and I
certainly haven't been discriminated against. I see Peter as a person who
either is successful at getting the best out of people (and hopefully have
them come to him), or has no problem saying No to people that probably ought
not to be invested in - unless the bet was to fill a certain niche/padding of
the fund to show short-term returns in terms of increased Market Value to
limited partners.

When I read in the media that people call Peter a "Fascist", what I'm really
reading is that these people saying horrible things about a perfectly good man
is because they're intolerant of other peoples choices or views to the point
of being Maoistic and Libelous. Even if Peter said No to me, by no means do I
feel he would do me harm. He probably could because I don't exactly have
patents issued, but I don't think he will because it's not why he got into
business. Look at Thiel term sheets vs the competition. Night and day.

Also, think about it like this, Mr. Thiel is in a powerful position in
politics, and could literally destroy me (and I know this), but his VC firm
that it looks like he put all (or most) of the money into, felt it was
important to meet with me as soon as possible and made me feel like a
somebody, even though I felt like nobody for years. If they say Yes, that was
the best way to start what could be a lifelong (forever?) relationship, and
won my intense loyalty.

People should create the innovations, and come forth to Peter and his network.
They really should.

------
ryandamm
Since this space appears to be a referendum on Thiel's involvement with Trump
(mostly), let me just offer this perspective: in Thiel's main business of
being an investor in startups, this could backfire if enough founders find the
association repugnant enough they'd refuse money from Thiel.

This isn't hypothetical; my cofounder and I agree that we won't take money
from Thiel or any Thiel-affiliated fund.

Let the flaming commence, I guess.

~~~
civilian
How is it repugnant?

~~~
ryandamm
Because it's supporting an authoritarian liar, who denies the validity of
established science, the rule of law, and the normal checks and balances of
government.

He also has suggested he'll trample on civil rights, including the freedom of
press, speech, and the civil liberties of many Americans.

Just out of curiosity, were you paying attention during the election, and if
so, where did you get your information?

~~~
civilian
I was paying attention :) The left is anti-GMO, which is straight-up anti-
science. (Which, I also need to add, is the kind of anti-science which will
exacerbate food scarcity in Africa. Drought-resistance crops save lives.) They
also tend to harbor anti-vaxxers, althought Trump is also an anti-vaxxer.

IDK! I'm just so tired of the emotional crybabying from the left. I agree
(with Trump) that the media is extremely biased-- if you watched Trump's press
conference today you'll see it. And the left tended to just piss on the way
that Trump talked. They don't even see that he's a master of words in his own
way. He looks like a fool, but he's _wailing_ on the left.

Here's how the next 4 years are going to go down. The left is going to
continue crying wolf/fascist/racist/sexist/whatever. Moderates and
independents are going to see a mediocre presidency, but _not_ the
authoritarianism you think we're in for. And then he's going to get re-
elected, because of the low expectations.

~~~
ryandamm
Again, where do you get your news?

I find anyone that most people who posit a monolithic "left" are typically
consuming a strange brew. Anyone who cares about truth -- not just in science,
but in economics, policy, etc, should be horrified by what Trump represents.

And I'd take even money against him being re-elected. There are betting sites
that are offering even money that he won't even finish four years, and based
on how he's handling the transition, that seems correct.

I think being president is harder than you think, by the way. And I'm
extremely pessimistic that Trump's up for it. He certainly hasn't done
anything to demonstrate that he's capable.

~~~
civilian
I read The Economist regularly, and I read miscellaneous articles from the
NYTimes, HuffPo, WashingtonPost that comes up on HN/FB. I enjoy the Joe Rogan
podcast but Rogan is wildly uninformed and likes to push conspiracy theories.

I think you're looking for a "badMedia -> uninformedCitizen" trend, but you're
not going to find it. My values are just libertarian--- so I've been on the
sidelines every presidential race ever. I wasn't excited about either
candidate. I just want to hear some good honest arguments. But I see so much
emotional manipulation from the left.

~~~
GrinningFool
If you're only seeing emotional manipulation from the left, you're only seeing
half the story.

~~~
civilian
So, I grew up in Portland, went to school in Massachusetts, and live in
Seattle now. I totally agree that I'm probably not seeing a lot of the stupid
shit that the Right is saying, just based off of who my friends and community
are. I critique where I can. :]

------
kafkaesq
We should commend her for not taking herself too seriously. But even so, she
gave him way too many softballs.

~~~
nostromo
This context can get lost online easier than in print -- but this is in the
"Style & Fashion" section of the paper.

It's not intended as hard-hitting journalism.

~~~
kafkaesq
_It 's not intended as hard-hitting journalism._

Yeah, I get that part. But even considering that, she's letting him off way
too easy.

She should have given him a few softballs to get his guard down... _then_ sunk
her claws into him.

~~~
oh_sigh
Yes, that would make perfect sense in the _Fashion & Style_ section.

Why don't you share with us some of the hardballs you would throw at Thiel,
given the chance?

~~~
kafkaesq
It wouldn't be the same. I could never match her savagery and gusto.

The more basic point is -- if I were running a major newspaper, I wouldn't
invite fascist collaborators to do innocent puff pieces in the _Fashion &
Style_ section, or any other section of my paper to begin with. Other than as
a ruse to lure them into a well-deserved public grilling, that is.

~~~
oh_sigh
Ah yes, "Peter Thiel - fascist collaborator". That would go great on a
business card!

Feel free to post some good questions, even if they lack savagery and gusto.
I'm curious what you think about Thiel.

~~~
kafkaesq
He'd prefer that you think of him as "That Zany Libertarian Guy." That's how
trojan horses and fellow travelers always roll (i.e. via misdirection).

I prefer not to think too much about Thiel, actually. But if you're terribly
interested, the HN search engine will turn up various things I've posted about
him, already.

------
IvarTheHomeless
duplicate of
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378029#13378276](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378029#13378276)

~~~
tyre
Not a duplicate, they are different articles

------
ForrestN
Such a waste of an opportunity!

"If the public fully understood your reasons for supporting Donald Trump, they
would be shocked and despise you."

"Your successful persecution of Gawker provided meaningful catharsis related
to personal traumas around your sexual orientation."

"Given the chance, you would trade the lives of one hundred thousand poor
people for the ability to live indefinitely."

"Donald Trump has the upper hand in your relationship."

~~~
paulsutter
Here's the text of Peter's speech at the national press club, explaining his
reasons for supporting Trump.

[http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/31/peter-thiel-on-
trump-a...](http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/31/peter-thiel-on-trump-and-
the-crazy-condition-of-our-country/)

(ps downvoted you for homophobic nonsense)

~~~
ForrestN
I am gay and the premise that criticizing Thiel for working out his issues by
destroying a company is somehow homophobic is very problematic.

And anyway, I'm not confirming or denying. I want him to.

~~~
paulsutter
I apologize for misunderstanding you, but your words still look ugly to me.

If you really care so much about what Peter thinks, what exactly are you
accusing him of with the first question? How are you so sure of his
motivations? That seems offensive coming from anyone. Happy to discuss in
email.

