
Portugal runs for four days on renewable energy alone - lucaspiller
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/18/portugal-runs-for-four-days-straight-on-renewable-energy-alone
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jneves
If you wish, you can follow the daily statistics of the Portuguese grid at:
[http://www.centrodeinformacao.ren.pt/PT/Paginas/CIHomePage.a...](http://www.centrodeinformacao.ren.pt/PT/Paginas/CIHomePage.aspx)
(in Portuguese) or
[http://www.centrodeinformacao.ren.pt/EN/Pages/CIHomePage.asp...](http://www.centrodeinformacao.ren.pt/EN/Pages/CIHomePage.aspx)
(in English).

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jon_smark
The article lacks a crucial bit of context: particularly in the North and
Center of Portugal, the last 8 months have been even rainier than usual (many
areas already over 2000mm of rain in this period, instead of the 1000-1500mm
that would be normal), favouring of course hydroelectric power generation,
which accounts for a huge percentage of the renewable total.

Not to dismiss this great news, but the country is still a long way from being
100% renewable on a continuing basis. There's however a huge untapped
potential in solar, so that goal is reachable if the investment happens (and
grid storage becomes cheaper).

~~~
bubuga
I would also add that the energy cost in Portugal is one of the highest in
europe, and one of the main reasons for its high cost was the investment in
PPPs in renewable energy.

~~~
davedx
Source? I believe in EUR its the same as NL and cheaper than DE. The problem
is salaries/min wage in PT are very low.

~~~
paulojreis
Take a look at [http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/...](http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics#Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers)

Eventually perusing the Eurostat database itself would give a better picture
of the evolution.

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anewhnaccount
Meanwhile the UK is dragging its heels by cutting the renewable subsidies -- a
move which at this point can really only be ideologically motivated.

~~~
gaius
The ideology of looking out of the window and seeing neither solar nor wind
will work today?

~~~
phaemon
Is it not a bit foolish to claim "neither solar nor wind will work today" when
there are already 2 links in this thread showing how much energy wind is
producing _right now_?

It really makes no sense to say that something can't happen, _as it 's
happening_.

~~~
bubuga
> when there are already 2 links in this thread showing how much energy wind
> is producing right now?

You should also see the links that show the premium that energy users are
forced to pay as a consequence of the government's investment in wind and
hydro.

If you care about the economy and competitiveness, paying a premium for
something whose alternative is currently in a historically-low cost is
something that does matter.

Warm feelings don't power farms and factories.

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codecamper
That's pretty amazing. I'm actually here in Portugal, down in the Algarve &
you don't actually see very many solar panels or wind turbines around. Though
there is a big geothermal plant not too far from here.

~~~
glaberficken
That's probably a thermal-electric (gas/other type of fossil fuel burning
station) To my knowledge there are no geo-thermal station in Portugal.

~~~
nusq
Just so you can improve your knowledge, Portugal as geo-thermal power plants
in Azores.

~~~
glaberficken
Sorry had that edit open in a tab i ended up not submitting, you are of course
correct =).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_Portugal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_power_in_Portugal)

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jventura
Curiously enough, this information has not been publicly relayed in the
national media. I've only read about it on the international media.. It's
indeed a pity that we don't know that sometimes our money is spend in a nice
way.. :/

~~~
sergiosgc
It was. On publico.pt and on observador.pt, at least.

On a slightly related note: What our media totally skipped were the SpaceX
landings. They were busy discussing the resignation of the minister of Culture
because of some FB insults. Humph. Politics: a reality show that is,
unfortunately, real.

~~~
lxvr
Pretty complete coverage here:
[http://observador.pt/seccao/ciencia/exploracao-
espacial/spac...](http://observador.pt/seccao/ciencia/exploracao-
espacial/spacex/) It's rather ironic how journalism is always bashed without
research. Also, people tend to judge media based on what appears on their very
socially skewed Facebook feeds.

~~~
sergiosgc
No TV. Assumedly, on paper I only read Público, where the news did not appear.
Observador is on my feed reader, but it's entirely natural I've skipped the
news post.

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garethrees
This is an encouraging story but the headline is very misleading. It would be
more accurate to say, "Portugal's ELECTRICITY GENERATION runs for four days
straight on renewable energy alone."

In Portugal (as in most Western European countries), electricity accounts for
about 20% of energy consumption (source: Eurostat). Transport and heating are
still almost totally dependant on non-renewable fossil fuels. So there's a
long way to go.

~~~
jobigoud
In France we use electricity for heating a lot. Something like a quarter to a
third of all homes are heated using electricity.

~~~
garethrees
France is above average in this respect — electricity accounts for about 25%
of energy consumption.

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sandworm101
>>Zero emission milestone reached as country is powered by just wind, solar
and hydro-generated electricity for 107 hours.

Hydroelectric power isn't the clean renewable it is often made out to be. Its
impact is very location-specific. Some dams need constant dredging. Some
decimate downriver ecosystems. And the flooding of green forests, carbon
sinks, isn't carbon-neutral. Each is different, but imho hydroelectric
shouldn't be listed as "zero emission" alongside solar and wind.

~~~
astrodust
There's emissions but they're not always proportional to power generation like
you might see with coal.

Do they have any estimates on the carbon footprint?

Nuclear is the same as the cost of extracting fuel is non-zero.

~~~
sandworm101
I've seen lots of different numbers. If you are in a dry dessert, then the
numbers are probably low. But if you are in something like the pacific coastal
rain forest and you are looking to flood a few km2 of trees, then net
emissions can be monstrous. I did read of one theory linking emissions to
production. It goes that production is proportional to the amount and pressure
of water flowing through the dam, which is related to the size of the flooded
area behind the dam. When the reservoir is low, as a result of production
during non-rainy seasons, the flooded/dead forests are exposed to the air
where they rot, releasing methane and other nasties.

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klean92
Soon enough, I will know if it is a windy or sunny day by looking at the AWS
EC2 spot price.

~~~
ccozan
We used to have the petro-dollar, now it's the solar-dollar :)

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fasteo
I'm all in for renewable energy, but it bothers me the lack of critical
thinking about it. The words "renewable" and "green" are always viewed as
something positive for humanity, but as everything in life, nothing is black
or white.

Here is [1] and interesting article about how efficient energy could actually
speed up the end of civilization.

[1]
[http://www.inscc.utah.edu/~tgarrett/Economics/Jevons_Paradox...](http://www.inscc.utah.edu/~tgarrett/Economics/Jevons_Paradox.html)

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nunobrito
Very happy to read the good news.

Last time was about 11 hours some three years ago.

This time 4 days.

I'm crossing fingers for next time to reach two weeks.

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Chos89
If a country spends i.e. 100MW of electricity, how much does it need to be
able to produce to be safe when the circumstances aren't favorable for max
production? Or will we always need non-renewable sources for this issue?

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mipapage
"The Iberian peninsula is a great resource for renewables and wind energy, not
just for the region but for the whole of Europe."

Sure, but the inept Spanish non-government will never do the right thing with
this amazing opportunity.

~~~
fasteo
>>> Sure, but the inept Spanish non-government will never do the right thing
with this amazing opportunity

How come ? Spain has lots of both solar and wind plants that have been heavily
subsidized by the government in the last 15 years.

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jkot
We should probably add that coal plants were still running on hot standby, in
case wind stops blowing.

