

Kickstarter Should Do More to Protect Backers - Impossible
http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/kickstarter-should-do-more-to-protect-backers.html

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lessnonymous
It annoys me that this is going to gain traction.

The only thing that should happen is that to fund something you have to click
some really plainly worded opt-ins. But I'm betting regulators will get
involved and remove this funding option for those who can't afford lawyers who
specialize in crowd funding. Or can't then afford the discovery that will need
to be done before they can request (crowd) funding.

[ I understand that I may lose all my money and that I have no recourse ]

[ I can afford to lose this money and not get anything in return ]

[ I understand that this is speculation and that only X% of projects deliver ]

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forgottenpaswrd
No, they should not.

What makes places like California vibrant is the entrepreneurial spirit, and
that means risking capital on new ventures that could or not work.

In Europe(or Asia) is more like, If I put money you guarantee me that I am
getting my money back, if not I will own you for the rest of your live.

You have to prove that you have experience being successful in order to
success, but if you were you would not need them in the first place.

So nothing risky or new is made on Europe, if it is,it is bought by American
companies like Skype. No risk, so no google, no Amazon, no facebook, no
Microsoft, even having probably more educated people.

Kickstarter guaranteeing projects would mean no risk projects, and huge
bureaucracy cost.

Today it is my work as a backer to evaluate projects, this is my
responsibility, I don't want my big brother to do it for me.

~~~
drrotmos
Skype may be American now, but it's origins are clearly European.

"Skype was founded in 2003 by Janus Friis from Denmark and Niklas Zennström
from Sweden. The Skype software was developed by the Estonians Ahti Heinla,
Priit Kasesalu, and Jaan Tallinn, together with Friis and Zennström were also
behind the peer-to-peer file sharing software Kazaa. In August 2003, the first
public beta version was released."

Until it was acquired by eBay, it was a Luxembourgish company. I don't know
how a company could be more European in origin.

~~~
kristiandupont
I think he meant "European companies like Skype are bought by American
companies".

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w_t_payne
Remember that KickStarter is really about giving donations to cool projects
... not about investing in something, or buying a product. This is a really
important niche, and they should _NOT_ be bullied into abandoning it.

If you want to buy a product with little-to-no risk, then go to Amazon.com. If
you want to connect with individuals trying to do cool stuff, help them with
their project, and _maybe_ get something in return, then Kickstarter is for
you.

Certainly, Fraudsters and abusive individuals will always be drawn to tools
like Kickstarter - and the team there need to be vigilant to keep blatant
abusers away from the system.... A few will always get through. That is a risk
that we all take ... but it is a risk that is well worth it for the service
that Kickstarter provides to "fringe" projects that are simply too high-risk
to attract conventional funding.

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DanBC
I strongly agree that Kickstarter's mission is great, and they should stick to
that.

Perhaps they need some clearer warnings. Even with recent projects I see
people complaining that they haven't got the items they've "bought".

I haven't seen much data to show how many Kickstarter projects there have
been, broken down by successfully funded (or not) and delivered (or not) and
out-right scams (or not).

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Impossible
Follow up: The board game mentioned in the headline has been picked up by
Cryptozoic Entertainment.

[http://www.cryptozoic.com/articles/cryptozoic-saves-doom-
cam...](http://www.cryptozoic.com/articles/cryptozoic-saves-doom-came-
atlantic-city-board-game)

Brings up the interesting question of how to handle KS projects that don't
raise enough money to ship.

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pfisch
Seriously, how could you fail to make a board game with over 100k?

He must've just had no idea at all about how to efficiently allocate the
funds....

I mean I am on a team that raised like 170k to make a god damn video game and
he can't make a board game with over 100. That makes no sense at all...

~~~
Impossible
Board games can often be more costly than video games because you have to
manufacture (and ship) physical goods. I backed a purely pen and paper
Kickstarter (Mobile Frame Zero) that had had some issues with shipping after
they had printed all of the books, for example.

Video games do tend to require larger teams and longer development times
though, so it's a trade off.

~~~
pfisch
That is true but they should benefit greatly from scale, and this one has over
1000 backers to work with. Also their lowest tier is $50, and that is only for
a paper and cardboard set.

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brg
_The problem, as I see it, is that despite the company 's best efforts, many
backers simply don't understand the risks involved in backing a project._

I think Kickstarter has done more than enough, but my prediction is that
failures of this kind will not be tolerated by regulators. The US is very
business friendly; considering limited liability and bankruptcy law. However
on any front touching consumer protection the law often reaches too far, and
punishes failure egregiously.

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DHowett
From the article:

> _If you 're unhappy with the "reward," or if the project never gets created,
> well, tough. Take it up with the project creator._

However, from the Kickstarter terms of service quoted directly below:

> _Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to
> grant a Backer 's request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable
> or unwilling to fulfill the reward._

I believe that the project "never getting[sic] created" would certainly be
cause to deem the Project Creator as "unable ... to fulfill the reward."

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bencollier49
As far as I can tell, what makes this one different is that the "Project
Creator" took up a boardgame which already had a following, roped in the
artists and creators behind it, and then used their names and artwork to get
the project funded.

Of course, they had no control over his actions. Ordinarily I'd look at the
past output of the project creators to decide whether to fund a Kickstarter.
Which is why funding Ryan North's choosable-path-adventure project was such a
no-brainer.

So this particular instance is unusual, the guy behind it traded on the
reputations of other people.

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robryan
Was chatting to some people about this today. One distinction I would make is
the difference between getting the finished product as a reward or getting
another incentive as a reward.

If I start up a kickstarter for a video game and I fail to deliver the video
game I think that is fine. If I also fail to deliver something like tshirt
rewards though that is plain mismanagement.

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jheriko
wait, what? idiocy is its own problem... investing money is gambling, don't
let the fact that we pin our entire economy on this fool you, its still
basically a bad idea that only pans out because of luck.

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camus
how many funded projects actually deliver something? i'd like to know the
data...

~~~
tlrobinson
Anecdotally, most. I've backed about 50 projects and none have failed to
deliver, though plenty have been delayed.

