
Microsoft stops Google being used for Cortana searches - AndrewDucker
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36168857
======
slevin063
Google does the same thing with Android. Although they don't use a browser, we
have no way to change the search tool in "ok google" feature. If some one
wants to replace Cortana with some other product and if Windows doesn't allow,
that is a problem. Using bing will eventually improve Cortana and Microsoft
should be able to do that.

~~~
kllrnohj
If you tap on a search result in "ok google" it'll launch in your default
browser, not necessarily chrome.

The forced launch into Edge is the only kinda suspect thing here. Of course
the voice goes through each companies respective search engines, they kinda
have to to work unless there's some standard for voice queries I'm not aware
of. But forcing it to launch in Edge is questionable since there's nothing
special there.

~~~
grahamburger
Google Now actually just changed this so that it always launches in Chrome
(like in the last couple of days.) You can launch it in your default browser
through the hamburger menu after launching in Chrome. Pretty annoying actually
- if anyone knows if it can be changed I'd love to change back. I rely on my
search results opening in Firefox so that they get synced with my history and
I can pull them up quickly from any device.

EDIT: Here it is on the 'What's New' list from the play store:
[http://imgur.com/6UGN2Dz](http://imgur.com/6UGN2Dz) they call it 'Open inside
the app' but it's a chrome web view.

~~~
thomasjames
Yes, it is very unfortunate. This first started happening yesterday (for me),
and I was kind of bummed that it didn't open in Firefox like it used to. It is
stuff like this that lends credence to the EU's issues with Google. I am not
sure why they feel it is worth it to just put stumbling blocks to user choice
like this at every possible chance.

------
curt15
Complaining that Cortana uses Bing is like complaining that Google Now uses
Google. What prevents Google from writing a drop-in replacement for Cortana on
Windows like how MS can promote Cortana on Android as an alternative to Google
Now?

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
> Complaining that Cortana uses Bing is like complaining that Google Now uses
> Google.

Is it? Apple's Siri lets you choose your search engine.

~~~
jasonlotito
Because Apple doesn't make its own search engine.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
If Apple did, that wouldn't excuse them. If they can integrate other search
engines now, they can still do so if they had their own.

------
espadrine
Here is a response from a Microsoft employee:

> […] Edge itself integrates with Cortana and offers various options that
> other browsers may or may not. Those integrations and options are likely to
> grow over time. Basically you can think of the search as a single end-to-end
> transaction in terms of the feature design, meaning that handoff to an
> undetermined browser or search engine doesn't produce the desired experience
> for the feature.

[http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2016/04/cortan...](http://arstechnica.com/information-
technology/2016/04/cortana-web-searches-in-windows-10-will-now-only-be-able-
to-open-edge-and-bing/?comments=1&post=31094779)

~~~
ivanca
Nobody believes that, Google would have helped for free in any integration
needed, maybe using a "cortana" chrome extension.

And even if that's false, is still pretty easy to set up the implementation to
be generated HTML that works on any modern browser.

The know nobody wants to use Bing, this is just another shady move Microsoft.

~~~
Spearchucker
What, you mean like when Google blocked Microsoft's YouTube app for Windows
Phone?

[http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-
wind...](http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-window-phone-
youtube-app)

~~~
afsina
Because MS violated Google's TOS.

~~~
JustSomeNobody
People conveniently forget that part.

~~~
sremani
No Google used its ToS to move the goal post and demanded MS to have the app
in HTML5, which it does not do for neither Android nor iOS. Everyone knew
Google was snipping WP and hiding behind legalese.

~~~
beagle3
No, google did not move the goal posts.

There were, in fact, at the time, various 3rd party YouTube apps that worked
perfectly well and were completely within the scope of the TOS - I personally
preferred Jasmine on iOS to the official client.

Microsoft, however, decided that they were a special snowflake and didn't need
to play by the rules. In fact, they also removed ads from YouTube -- Google's
source of income with respect to YouTube.

Google was no doubt snipping WP. But Microsoft was in the wrong on that one -
which just made it easier for Google. And the reason MS didn't want to do an
HTML5 client for WP (and didn't want to admit it either) was that the HTML5
implementation on WP was not good enough to run YouTube reasonably. So they
put themselves in the spot of either admitting an inferior browser or
violating TOS. Either way, they made it easy for Google to hurt them.

~~~
freehunter
Well funny enough, at that same time, Google blocked WP access to Google Maps,
even through the browser. They claimed Google Maps only works properly in
Webkit, even though it worked just fine in IE if you could get around their
block. Couple that with the fact that, even after Google blocked WP's YouTube
app, Google and Microsoft worked together to make a new app on HTML5 (proving
wrong your claims that WP's HTML5 support wasn't good enough to support
YouTube, the problem was WP plays HTML5 video through the built-in system
media player and Google didn't want that), and after their collaboratively
developed app was released, Google blocked it _again_. At the same time,
Google wasn't enforcing iOS apps to be built purely with the HTML5 APIs, so
literally only Microsoft had to follow these restrictions. The end result was,
YouTube was only accessible through the browser and not through an app. Google
then followed up these two things almost immediately with an announcement that
they were dropping support for syncing Google calendars with Windows Phone.

I'm sorry, but there's no way to be on Google's side during that fight. It was
a purely anti-competitive pissing contest. You don't have to be on Microsoft's
side, but there is no legitimate way to say that Google wasn't abusing their
dominant position over a competitor when it came to how they behaved in the
early days of Windows Phone. There was a pattern of outright hostility. Google
even said "we know where our users are, and they're not on Windows Phone".
Since I was a Windows Phone user, I took the hint and stopped using all Google
services. It's petty nonsense, and we all got enough of that in the 90s.

~~~
beagle3
While I followed it, there were two Microsoft versions blocked by Google, no
joint versions to speak off, and totally subpar YouTube website experience
because WP's html5 support was inadequate - but I stopped following at some
point, so we might both be right.

With respect to Google calendar - that indeed was a retaliation at Microsoft.
Your story would be more complete if you mentioned that at the time, Microsoft
was both threatening android makers with patents AND charging Google for
patents related to Exchange services. While the timing probably was decided to
best hit WP, I heard dropping exchange was planned a while before.

Incidentally, microsoft's response was "no, no, no! You don't have to pay
exchange patent fees anymore, just let WP users use Google services again".
And I am happy to report that, as you know, Google ignored that plea.
Microsoft has been subdued into an almost reasonable market participant
position - and I suspect this fight is one of the reasons.

------
partiallypro
Amazing that this thread holds Google and Microsoft to different standards.
Google Now uses Google's search engine, no opt-out. Cortana now uses Bing's
search engine, no opt-out. You can easily have your browser search hijacked by
an extension in the browser (on desktops this is easy, on phone OS's not so
easy.) So you use Cortana, then you get the search result and suddenly you are
on a shady search provider, you get a virus and you blame it on Microsoft.

Sure, I think Microsoft should offer a solution to this that isn't so
hamfisted; or is hamfisted but has an opt-out for power users (maybe that
requires elevated permissions), but let's not pretend that search hijacking
isn't commonplace. Most Windows users are not HackerNews readers or power
users.

~~~
tracker1
Well.. there are solutions.. in Windows 10, disable cortana, and/or replace
Windows Explorer...

In Android, disable google now and/or replace the launcher.

I don't really hold either of them in the wrong on this issue... It really is
about delivering a better integrated experience. Although, I do prefer
Google's services over MS's bing and cortana.

------
gldalmaso
Great way to tie three products into their lowest common denominator.

User who love Cortana but dislike Bing and Edge, gone.

User who love Cortana and Bing but dislike Edge, gone.

User who love Cortana and Edge but dislike Bing, gone.

~~~
nashashmi
The death of Cortana.

~~~
kbenzle
Death of Windows (for me at least)

~~~
tracker1
Except for the occasional need for VS, I'm not at all tied to windows... I use
OSX and Linux(Ubuntu) more than anything.

------
heavymark
It's unfortunate, that with all the big steps Microsoft has taken forward,
they quickly back to their old ways at any chance they can get.

~~~
nashashmi
I don't blame a company for taking out unpredictability. It is what
conservative programmers do.

------
ChuckMcM
Not a particular surprising move. Microsoft's CPC for Bing has be going up
quarter over quarter and Google's has been going down. Presumably at some
point they meet in the middle. But as Bing's have gotten high enough to pay
the freight sending more traffic there is all upside for Microsoft.

The reasoning is a bit flimsy though, if you consider Cortana as simply a
"hands free typing device" its kind of like restricting your special snowflake
keyboard to only your apps.

But with Amazon owning the cloud computing dollars, Facebook consuming a
bigger and bigger serving of the Internet Advertising pie, Netflix and Amazon
being the place where video streaming makes money, I would expect Google has
to feel a bit backed into a corner, and its competitors feeling a bit like
they have a way to weaken it further. It feels like another "big shift" in
terms of players in the market space.

------
FussyZeus
I can understand as a programmer Bing being used for the more interesting
functions, such as tracking packages or finding business hours and that sort
of thing (the tasks that never leave the Cortana window) but come on
Microsoft, beyond that we both know all you're going is opening a Bing search
in the browser and that's NOT complicated at all.

I'm fine with Bing integration for most Cortana functions, but let us choose
our own damn browser and our own damn search engine.

------
nxzero
>> Anything else would be a "compromised experience that is less reliable and
predictable", he said.

Wow, massive bs.

------
bad_user
But wait, I thought Microsoft changed.

~~~
stinos
Yes and no I guess. People seem to forget Microsoft consists of 'departments'
A/B/C/.../Z. So while A might still be all about proprietary software and B
wants to embrace, there's also C open-sourcing tons of interesting stuff on
github and sometimes even accepting PRs. C didn't exist a couple of years ago
I think. So projecting sentences onto a single Microsoft entity is usually a
false generalization. Same goes for a lot of other companies who are active in
more than one field.

~~~
teddyh
Labels, names and symbols _matter_. To paraphrase:

— Hey, Mike.

— Yeah?

— Have you looked at our name badges lately?

— Yes… No, why?

— They say “Microsoft”.

— Yeah, so?

— Do you… do you think we might be… the _monopolists_?

(With apologies to Mitchell & Webb:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv2XGQBcvxQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv2XGQBcvxQ))

~~~
dagaci
This is simply name calling.

~~~
teddyh
I am calling Microsoft “Microsoft”. (Also “monopolists”, but that fact has
been thoroughly established.)

------
oldgun
Not a new thing that everybody wants to create their own little walled garden.
It's beautiful inside, but it also strips users of their freedom.

Not sure if it's best for us end users when we are mandated to give up our
freedom in the name of 'security' and 'user experience'.

~~~
niutech
Of course it is very bad to take away our freedom. No for walled gardens!

------
Hondor
I'm rooting for Bing simply because Google search has no real competitors in
the west. I'm sure Bing's accuracy and bot coverage/speed will improve with
time, while Google might be kind of at the peak. Hopefully in the future
search is more of a commodity so businesses aren't at the mercy of a single
company's algorithms.

~~~
gottam
I'm rooting for a competitor that isn't bing. If Microsoft gets any
significant market share it could mean yet another monopoly under their belt.
They can't even compete directly without having to lock out their competitors.

~~~
ksk
I wonder what would have happened if Google didn't buy Maps, Android, YouTube,
DoubleClick, AdMob, Waze, On2, Nest.....

------
amelius
Time to have a "search-engine ballot screen" in all apps that use search?

In the same vein as:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu)

------
WayneBro
Hey Microsoft - when can we have a simple and reliable voice input like
Android and iOS?

[http://superuser.com/questions/1020549/how-do-i-enable-
the-m...](http://superuser.com/questions/1020549/how-do-i-enable-the-
microphone-on-the-surface-pro-4-touch-keyboard)

~~~
montibbalt
I would guess pretty soon since it's part of the W10 Mobile keyboard

------
goffley3
Easy solution, turn off Cortana. Problem solved.

~~~
plandis
It seems customer hostile to me. What benefit does the customer get? Now they
can use only the arguable worse search of Bing?

------
mhurron
So Cortana is only good for porn searches now?

------
dewiz
The right answer from Google should be to build a Start menu replacement for
Windows. People would love it and that could take out Cortana

~~~
ocdtrekkie
They effectively did. Windows 8 mode for Chrome would actually put their
Chrome apps button where users expected to find the start button, and the X at
the top right would close the current Chrome window, but not the whole Chrome
application.

I had a lot of people asking me what happened to their computer because they
couldn't find their way out of it. It was basically malware.

~~~
dewiz
I'm not familiar with that button, or maybe I've seen it and that was just an
app launcher. What I was thinking it's something like a full blown start menu
replacement, like the apps popping up when Win8 was launched because people
wanted the start menu back. I can see how even Win10 menu could be improved
and Google could use the opportunity to step in and brand that side of Windows
and collect data about Win users.

------
kempe
I usually get better hits when I use google. Wonder what the end result of
their change will bring. Perhaps less cortana interest?

------
nikkwong
Sounds like internet explorer 6 all over again.

------
ComteDeLaFere
"Many Cortana users have previously preferred to carry out searches with
Google rather than Bing."

Citation? The author of the article writes this directly after referencing a
Microsoft blog post that doesn't contain that statement.

