
The Story Of A Failed Startup And A Founder Driven To Suicide - chaz
http://www.businessinsider.com/jody-sherman-ecomom-2013-4?op=1
======
chris_wot
I'm so totally conflicted here. I feel so awfully sorry that he committed
suicide, and heavens only knows all the complicated reasons behind why he took
his own life. From this account, he seems to have been charismatic, but self-
delusional.

I only say this because I know someone who seems to be exactly like this. They
don't seem to care about being in debt, and they justify themselves for not
paying people for their services. They are always positive, but always
spinning everything. They don't tell the truth. In short: they are dangerous
to be around if you rely on them for any sort of living.

Because I was so badly burned by this particular individual, I'll not be
spending any time around those who talk up big and who have a bad track record
of paying down debt in a reasonable timeframe. It's as simple as that.

------
aashaykumar92
If you read this as a story, it's actually really well written--it's a great
progression. There may not be one clear, overall thesis, but each section
seems to have its own thesis and each is supported quite well. I never knew
Jody but from the story, I have two takeaways:

1) Jody was a great person. The reason why I mention this first is to make it
clear that the article really strives to show this. And he truly seemed to
have a big heart.

2) Always be as open as possible. Many times, we don't want our problems to
become others' problems so we hide it. And then it builds and it leads to a
large amount of secrecy that could have been avoided. It goes back to the
childhood saying we all hear, "No question is a dumb question." This phrase
ultimately is saying that you might as well ask a question so that you are not
falling behind in knowledge--whether it's academic or not. And please don't
assume that I am saying Jody's suicide was purely because he didn't disclose
Ecomom's financials; I just believe that if he would have been more open, more
help could have been offered--financially and psychologically.

Of course, I gained more takeaways than this but these are the two I thought
were most worth sharing.

------
johnpowell
If true..

>One childhood friend recalled a time when Sherman committed insurance fraud.
He described driving on a highway with Sherman when they were 16. Suddenly,
Sherman told his friend to "buckle up." He slammed on the brakes and caused an
accident. Later, the friend says, Sherman would collect thousands of dollars
from insurance companies for the self-inflicted injuries.

Fuck the dude.

~~~
adhd
The original story was told by his best friend at Jody's memorial, in a
lighthearted way. And it happened when he was a teenager. I'm a little shocked
that the writer used this as evidence of fraud.

Of course, the same friend told a story about Jody giving boxes and boxes of
clothing to homeless people during Christmas. Yet this tale didn't make the
cut.

~~~
chollida1
> I'm a little shocked that the writer used this as evidence of fraud.

To be fair to the writer, that event was fraud by any definition of the word.

------
michaelpinto
I think many of us have misconceptions about what drives someone to commit
suicide, and thus it becomes a taboo mental health topic which isn't healthy.
Often it can be a behavior that could be triggered by anything from drugs to
mental disorders, and there's even a feeling that genetics may play a role.

I had a wonderful friend who passed away because of this and the one thing
that it taught me was to talk about it. I'd urge everyone reading this to at
least read up on the wikipedia page on the topic to educate yourself and get
an overview:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide>

------
candybar
Very sad, RIP.

His story, to me, reminds me as to why the most successful entrepreneurs are
not gregarious salespeople who are good at connecting with people, but
focused, dorky introverts. Connection leads to social pressure and being good
at convincing others that dubious ideas are legit also means being good at
convincing yourself that dubious ideas are legit.

------
wongwf82
I had no idea Groupon played a role until I reach the middle part of the
article.

I too believe building a company should be a marathon and not a 100m sprint.
Trying to sprint 100m puts tremendous pressure on self to succeed and could
result in suicide. As Dave McClure said, it is a first world problem in those
dark days no matter how dark it is. Founders should look to 9-to-5 and build a
long-term company.

------
hncommenter13
I didn't know Jody, so I won't comment on him personally.

Speaking as a former investor regarding the financial situation though...never
ever ever ever.

Financial controls aren't important just because VCs are greedy: they keep
companies alive and keep you out of court (or jail). I've seen situations in
which cash didn't quite reconcile to what was expected; in some, the people
involved made restitution and were fired. In others, they went to prison. A
company with no effective financial control is flying blind and, someday, will
run into the mountain in the clouds.

The article identifies some key warning signs.

1\. "...not even sharing the company's financial information with his co-
founder, Emily Blakeney. Sources admit that was strange in retrospect. ...
Sources say Sherman was the only person with access to the company's bank
account and invoices. Only he knew how much cash Ecomom was using up every
month."

In many startups, any payment over $X requires dual signatures for exactly
this reason. Also, contract bookkeepers aren't expensive (contract CFOs can
be, but they're worth it). A second set of eyes--and hands--on the corporate
checkbook is crucial.

Also, why aren't investors aren't looking at the cash position every month?
That is the one critical number--the only one with sudden corporate death at
stake--for every single Board meeting until the company is solidly and
predictably cash flow positive.

2\. "'There wasn't ever full disclosure, and that leads me to believe there
was a reason he didn't want anyone to have full disclosure,' says a source."

Totally 100% unacceptable. The key execs and the board should be looking at
the financials, at least at the bank account/quickbooks level, every month and
management should be reviewing them more frequently yet. Especially in a
metrics-driven business like e-commerce that requires cash investments for
inventory and advertising.

3\. "He put the company's inventory on his credit card, a black American
Express, which caused him to go into deeper personal debt. He refused to get a
corporate card, despite complaining to colleagues when AmEx would call and
question company expenses."

A huge red flag. If there is intermingling of corporate and personal finances
--whether this extreme or just the CEO's sister's law firm does the legal work
--investors and co-founders need to fully understand and ensure it's arms-
length. Then they need to disentangle the two right away.

If you own 100% of the company, feel free to run it "out of your back pocket."
But with outside shareholders, whether employees or investors, such a practice
is indefensible. In my experience, intertwined personal and professional
finances is often the tip of the iceberg in terms of accounting shenanigans.

I don't mean to imply that investors should have seen this coming or that Jody
set out to do this. But every experienced investor who's been burned this way
--and many have--makes financial control issues a topic at the first (and
every subsequent) board meeting post-investment until adequate controls are in
place.

~~~
CaptainZapp

      If you own 100% of the company, feel free to run it "out of your back pocket."
    

When I ran my own company (which I owned 100%) this would never, ever had
occurred to me.

The salary I payed myself may have varied, depending on the monthly revenues,
but - while being rather chaotic in other respects - I always made damn sure
that the company's and my personal finances where strictly separated and that
the financial paperwork was up to scratch.

As you aptly point out: The cash position is probably your most critical
metric. Losing oversight over the finances can kill your company in -
literally - days.

Seperating your own cash from the company's assets is, in my opinion, one of
the most important things in achieving financial clarity.

~~~
pnathan
When I was first looking at doing freelance work and talking to self-employed
people, the big advice I always got was "have a business account". It startles
me that anyone would do otherwise.

------
scottbartell
Running a startup is fucking hard and fucking stressful. I'm learning that.

~~~
pyj
It seems to me that some entrepreneurs in some masochistic way likes the
stress. My memory of my last startup was pretty painful, but somehow can't
help going at it again. Some of us may not be made for living a simple life,
instead we need that freedom, that constant possibility to fuck it all up.

------
adhd
There is little information in this story that has not been reported
elsewhere. PandoDaily has done a thorough job of covering the death of Jody
and ecomom in a thoughtful and factual manner. Except for a light spattering
of additional financial numbers, not much of this is revelatory.

And the section on Guatemala is just trash. It culminates in an
unsubstantiated and innuendo-laden tale, with none other than John McAffee as
the sole source. Seriously? Please. (FYI the source who confirmed the meeting
doesn't count. Anyone who knew Jody at the time would have heard about that.)

To the central point: It is good to talk about the importance of honesty and
dealing with the stress of a start-up. By all means, let's open up the
conversation again. But articles with such innuendo (no evidence, mind you) --
suggestions of sinister business activities and a Central American fraud
scheme -- don't help that conversation. It makes Jody's experience seem
distant and unrelatable.

Essentially, I fear that an article like this hurts the open conversation
because of how crazy the story sounds. An unusual story allows the listeners
to reject the valuable truths therein contained.

The reality was a lot less mythic and far more heart-breaking.

------
jim_doe
Re: Marijuana

Weed can have an incredibly devastating effect when used as an escape. We have
all been told that weed has no withdrawal symptoms and is safer than water.
This is simply not true.

Being involved in startups can obviously be extremely stressful. Like Jody, I
used weed as an escape after a hard day. It allowed me to clear my mind,
sleep, and be at peace with the storm that was my life. Over time, the weed
worked less and less, I needed to smoke more and more to get the same feeling,
and my emotions started to go up and down dramatically, even when stoned.

One day, I had a nervous breakdown over something that really wasn't a big
deal. After a lot of introspection and discussion with friends, I realized
that weed was making my situation worse. It had turned from an escape to a
nightmare. It was like a light bulb turned on and I could see everything
clearly. For example, I would get really bad headaches and start feeling
nauseous around the time I would usually smoke on weekdays (5 PM). If I was in
a meeting, I would usually become very moody and frequently had to leave. I
never realized it was from the weed, though. I always wrote it off at every
occurrence as a virus or a bad meal or just lack of sleep.

The day came when I decided to quit. I will give a brief outline of what it
was like and how it felt.

Day 1: Felt really good and positive about the whole situation. I had cravings
at night but was able to ignore them.

Day 2: Started to have a hard time eating. I also felt a bit more stressed.

Day 3: Woke up with my bed completely soaked from night sweats. I was so
dehydrated I gagged all morning and then had to go to work. My moods would go
from happy to nearly suicidal all day. I couldn't stomach any solid food and
sweated all day.

Day 4-5: Waked up both days with my sheets soaked in sweat. Extremely vivid
and stressful dreams. Couldn't go to work. Constant panic attacks. Suicidal
thoughts. Even liquids besides water or soda were hard to ingest.

Day 6: Night sweats weren't as bad. I could start stomaching shakes and some
sugary solid foods. My moods started to even out a bit and I didn't get the
intense lows like the previous days.

Day 7: Night sweats not soaking the sheets anymore. Some food becoming more
palatable. Headaches hit me around 5 PM.

Day 8-14: Was able to start going back to work. I had to have a lot of shakes
to stay fed. The feeling of sobriety starts to hit and everything seems much
more clear and lucid. I feel as if I took a drug that gave me hyper focus and
mental awareness. I realized that even when not high, my mind was still very
hazy and mentally affected while smoking heavily. I was essentially "always
stoned". Getting rid of that haze was like opening curtains in a dark room.

That was about a year ago. I relapsed and am currently going through the
withdrawal process as I type this. I have been up all night because my sweats
soaked my bed and I don't want to fall back asleep just to wake up in sweat
again. This line from the story really hit home this morning:

    
    
         Sherman had battled clinical depression, and his mind may have been clouded by marijuana, which he often smoked to self-medicate.
    

Now, I want to make it clear that I am not trying to claim this is the reason
Jody did what he did. I simply feel that it is a VERY important discussion.
This comment below made me very angry/concerned, enough to create an anon
account and post this novel.

    
    
         Stopped reading at the speculation that marijuana may have contributed to his suicide. The fuck???
    

If you claim marijuana withdrawals don't exist, you are ignorant. Talk to
people who have used the drug as a life escape and then quit. Most drugs are
worse than marijuana but we can't downplay its faults. I wanted to include
some links for anyone that is skeptical.

100's of withdrawal testimonies:
[http://www.steadyhealth.com/how_long_do_marijuana_withdrawal...](http://www.steadyhealth.com/how_long_do_marijuana_withdrawal_symptoms_last_t137003.html)

Some Facts About Marijuana Withdrawals:
[http://www.choosehelp.com/detox/10-life-or-experiential-
fact...](http://www.choosehelp.com/detox/10-life-or-experiential-factors-that-
influence-the-severity-of-marijuana-withdrawal-symptoms)

Studies Find Withdrawals Are Real:
[http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/09/27/marijuana-
withdrawa...](http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/09/27/marijuana-withdrawal-
is-real-study-says/)
[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2209405/Cannabis-u...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2209405/Cannabis-
users-experience-withdrawal-symptoms-acute-tobacco-smokers-quit.html)

More Marijuanan Withdrawal Studies and Testimonials:
[http://brainblogger.com/2009/06/15/marijuana-withdrawal-
synd...](http://brainblogger.com/2009/06/15/marijuana-withdrawal-syndrome/)

Chronic Marijuana Smoking Affects Brain Chemistry, Molecular Imaging Shows:
[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110606131705.ht...](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110606131705.htm)

I can't find the direct source, but I read that the loss of appetite is due to
an "overloading" of the Cannabinoid receptors. Those are the receptors in your
brain that marijauna's active chemicals bind to. At some point, these
receptors get overloaded and only respond to excess marijuana conception. They
get less and less sensitive over time, building up your tolerance to
marijuana. Your cannabinoid receptors are what are used to tell your brain you
are hungry. When they don't respond to normal body signals and only marijuana
consumption, then you are at a state where eating is only possible while high.

~~~
ex86
Jim, I want to thank you so much for this post. Actually, words cannot really
describe how grateful I am to read these words.

People - this is not your grandparents mexishwag anymore with 1-2% thc tops.
Today's mega herb breaks 20% in thc easy. During the 60s I imagine weed was
not very addictive because it was not very potent, but times have changes.

Today's megaweed has created a new kind of addiction 'cannabis state
dependence', and I know because I am currently suffering from it.

CSD is caused by THC's extremely long half life in the body. Frequent users of
cannabis have large concentrations of thc and its metabolites in their blood
for weeks even months after using. These metabolites dull the stoner's
thinking, and pretty soon the only time they can think normally is in the 1-2
hour phase of acute thc intoxication, the rest of the day they are in a cloud.

Quitting naturally becomes terrifying, as Jim so eloquently stated above. The
stoner starts to come out of the cloud, but they are immediately beset by a
lengthy and uncomfortable withdrawal phase(You can imagine this 'through the
looking glass' effect of feeling MORE SOBER while high than while suffering
from withdrawal is the root cause of CSD.)

As for me, I have been a pothead for over 11 years. During that time I have
had two periods of sobriety > 6 months. For the last 6 years I have smoked
daily, often more than once per day.

Before November, I had been sober for 8 months, I had just found a job which I
love, and life was looking up. The elections were so stressful, I stopped
meditating, and started to drown out my anxiety with alcohol. Why not go back
to weed?

The beast inside asked. Weed is safer than alcohol right? In that moment I
forgot the past 10 years of struggling to be sober. I forgot waking up after a
binge, praying through a foggy brain for some sobriety, the gradual sobering
of the mind over the course of the day, the attendant anxiety as my blood
pressure - no longer artificially being lowered - crept up.

I forgot the 'one more time's, days turning to weeks turning to months turning
to years, I forgot desperately wanting to quit, but literally not being able
to. I mean, waking up, throwing out my pieces, my weed, my grinder, hundreds
or thousands of dollars worth of drug paraphernalia, and then finding myself
back at the dealer's in the evening.

An old friend of mine likened it to going to the carnival with your parents
when you were a kid. There is that funhouse right, and you just can't get
enough of it. Ooohh the bright lights ooh the distorted mirrors.

So you keep going back again and again and again, and soon the sun is setting
and your dad is exhausted. He wants to go home, but you cant get enough of the
funhouse. Soon everyone has moved on, and you keep going back again.

Or perhaps you can think of it as lotus isle from the Odyssey. People just
spend their whole lives their, eating lotuses, sleeping their lives away, a
kind of living death.

Marijuana never gives you a real bottom, it just wears you down, year after
year, decade after decade, until you are just a shell where once there was a
fully realized human being. Your old friends start to move on, your own self
image is in tatters, you become the fool ready to accept your own buffoonery
and incompetence as innate and unchangeable.

Marijuana is tempting because it is easy. Our field is so mentally demanding,
we come home from the office, often after hours, completely wired up in
problem solving mode.

We return home from the office a bundle of distracted energy, ready to unplug,
but unable to power down our mental faculties. Drink and drug are the most
readily available solutions, they require no skill to use and are guaranteed
to provide some level of chemically assisted detachment. Better options might
be meditation, a nap, exercise, or sex.

Pretty soon a habit becomes a crutch, and pretty soon a crutch becomes a
necessity.

After 8 months sober, I said I would ease myself back into it. I could see
myself smoking just once or twice a week, what would be the harm in that?
Surely, after 8 months completely stone cold sober I could moderate my
habit...

One last point, abstinence is much easier than moderation. Abstinence means
making a clear choice and sticking to it. Abstinence means there are no drugs
in the house, everything is black and white, so I have a sanctuary from a
world obsessed with the easy way out.

Moderation means making lots of gray choices, often while already intoxicated.

The point of this rant is basically to say Cannabis State Dependence sucks. It
has been 5 months since I decided to smoke only occasionally. Can you guess
how many days I have been sober since that first toke? 1, I have been sober 1
day in 5 months, and that heroic effort was immediately followed by a relapse.

This is not a joke, marijuana can ruin people's lives(just like mmos,
gambling, and heroin).

Just like those other things, MJ can be just fine for some people. Please be
careful, "Know Thyself" and seek a real lasting peace, because there has "got
to be more to life than chasing down every temporary high."

------
ilamont
What a sad story. I know it's easy to say "in retrospect, if we knew x, y, z,
it never would have gone this far," but I have to ask:

Where was the board before the last round of funding?

There is no mention of the CFO or company accountant. Did the company have
either?

What did he tell investors who asked about who was overseeing the accounts?

------
tomwalker
If anyone reading this thread ever has suicidal thoughts then please talk to
someone.

If you cannot talk to anyone that is close to you, or if you are more
comfortable with it, then please find your local phone line such as
www.samaritans.org in the UK or www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org in the US

------
teeja
Might sound callous, but when people want something so bad that they'll commit
suicide when it doesn't work out, that's a serious mistake. Lots of things
don't work out, but you can't get to the ones that do if you're gone.

------
ttrreeww
Wow, this can be turned into a AAA movie.

------
noahth
Stopped reading at the speculation that marijuana may have contributed to his
suicide. The fuck???

~~~
fuzzix
I don't smoke it - it makes me introspective, paranoid and miserable.

I also laugh like a jackass at George Carlin and get the munchies, but the
other stuff happens too.

~~~
beryllium
I don't need marijuana for _any_ of those things. Lucky me?

------
dmor
It really pisses me off that they are publishing this - the news of Jody's
death devastated a lot of people and I don't see what new information is being
reported here.

The Guatemala story is hearsay. This makes me so angry.

~~~
mgkimsal
How is it hearsay any more so than quotes from McClure and others? McAfee was
quoted about their discussion, and Jody clearly went there - shouldn't be any
dispute about that.

Why does this 'piss you off'? Seemed entirely reasonable to me.

EDIT: Perhaps you don't see any 'new' information here, but a lot of this was
news to me. A great many more of us live outside the bubble that is the few
square miles on the planet where so much tech activity takes place. We all
didn't know Jody personally, and there seemed precious little in the days
after his death that was anything more than "we didn't see this coming" and
"he was always so full of life". Perhaps this will serve as a call to
investors to have a closer eye o the books, regardless of how charismatic the
head of the company may be. And I don't just mean for financial reasons -
other people having a closer view of the books might have caused some serious
discussions to happen - a forced face to face, as it were - which might have
allowed them to see what was going on and offer help. Or it might have pushed
him to suicide faster (assuming it was suicide) - who knows?

~~~
doktrin
I have to agree, in that the bulk of this story was news to me as well.
Granted, my only prior exposure were the discussions here on HN immediately
following his untimely passing.

It's inarguably tragic. What rang the truest to me were the mentions by
McClure towards the bottom about keeping problems & ambitions, magnified by
our own bubbles and echo chambers, in perspective.

------
ChrisNorstrom
Before you downvote please take into consideration that I'm just being
realistic. Of course you should seek help and calm your mind back into a
logical state. Still about 1 million people commit suicide each year. You and
I are not going to change that.

If you're seriously going to kill yourself, please do NOT use a gun or pills
or jumping or cutting wrists or arteries. It's bad enough you've chosen to and
finalized your decision to end your life you don't need to traumatize your
family and friends with a gruesome death. Use an "Exit bag". It's instant,
painless, blood-less, non-gruesome, and peaceful.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWfWl-xJnnY>

Created by a right-to-die group Exit International it's a bag that goes over
your head with a tube connected to a helium tank you can purchase at a local
party store. Fill the bag up completely with helium, pull it over your head
and take a deep breath. You'll pass out instantly and leave the earth in just
a few minutes. No blood, no suffering, no bullets. It's bad enough you're
committing suicide, you don't want family finding you with your brains
splattered all over the place, or your body in a bathtub full of blood. Just
because you're hurting yourself by ending your life doesn't mean you need to
hurt those that love you anymore than you already are. They'll find you tucked
away in your bed, peacefully, and for the last time. They'll appreciate that a
lot more than finding you in a pool of blood. The one thing they'll have is
the knowledge that you just left the earth peacefully and calmly.

Just keeping it real.

~~~
rwallace
I think there's an important distinction that needs to be made here.

The appropriate use case of an exit bag is where it is _not_ in fact suicide,
where you're dying _anyway_ of something like cancer or Alzheimer's, so you
don't have a choice whether you live or die, only whether you die cleanly or
are tortured to death. Avoiding torture is healthy and sane behavior, and full
credit to anything that assists such avoidance, and if this thread were about
terminal illness, your comment would be appropriate and on topic.

But it's not. It's about a healthy man who had much to live for and was driven
to suicide by depression and stress. And here's my view on what to do if you
find yourself becoming suicidal in such a situation:

1\. For heaven's sake, talk to someone. Family, friends, Internet contacts, or
if you can't bear admitting your troubles to anyone who knows you, get on the
phone to the Samaritans or somesuch.

2\. Failing all else, if you really are at the point of committing suicide,
no, DON'T use an exit bag or a gun or jump off a cliff. Take an overdose of
sleeping pills instead. Why? Because maybe, just _maybe_ once the deed is done
you might change your mind, and if so, you'll be very glad indeed to have
chosen a method that lets you call an ambulance and maybe get a second chance.

~~~
tomjen3
What right do you have to determine when it is okay for somebody else to take
their life?

Nobody asked to be born and plenty of people would rather die than admit to
failure.

~~~
rwallace
I don't have the right to intervene by force in the face of a genuine
sustained desire to die rather than admit to failure. I do, however, have the
right to express my opinion that such an action is a grave mistake. As
evidence backing my opinion: how often does someone say "oh that time a few
years ago when I was feeling suicidally depressed but I finally gritted my
teeth and admitted to failure, I wish I had gone ahead and killed myself
instead"? Not very!

