
Ex Apple TV Engineer: New Apple TV UI is actually one Jobs threw away years ago - i_cannot_hack
http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/24/former-apple-tv-engineer-new-apple-tv-design-is-actually-one-steve-jobs-threw-away-five-years-ago/
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encoderer
A few of the other engineers I work with think I'm crazy, but I'd bet $100
that in the next few years, Apple will produce a TV itself and remove this
product from the market.

The well-known comment in the Jobs biography tipped their hand about a further
commitment to TV. Literally everybody I've talked to about it balks at the
idea of a full-on Apple tv set. That it's too murky, too much tangling with
cable providers. Too much competition with existing set makers without the
ability to really revolutionize the form-factor like cell phones. That instead
they'd just give you a box that you can plug into an existing TV to make it
good.

But Jobs (and Apple) have always been about "the whole widget." Moreover, they
have a lot of experience building really great large displays.

Besides, TVs need it now. So-called "Smart" IP tv's are the future. TV's
already have Apps. And the experience sucks because Samsung, LG, Sony, etc,
are not in the business of making first-class software products. I believe the
line where steve said he'd "finally cracked it." Because a lot of us I'm sure
can see the rough outline of a product there. Let it run iOS. Let me remote
control it with my other iOS devices. Let me integrate iTunes/etc in a first-
class way. The murky part is: How exactly do you deal with existing cable
content. Can I add HBO West to my home screen like an "app" right alongside
the HBO Go app? That integration of these 2 side-by-side systems of content
delivery (Cable and Internet) is the detail that I think needs to be
"cracked." How great would it be to see this product emerge as posthumous part
of Jobs' legacy..

~~~
stuartmemo
_Apple will produce a TV itself and remove this product from the market_

The current Apple TV exists as a low cost way of encouraging people to buy
movies from iTunes. There's no way they'd get rid of that.

~~~
encoderer
Perhaps. But I think you have the economics backwards. Apple has said before
that they break even from iTunes. iTunes exists as a low cost way for them to
sell more devices.

Apple has a history of simple product lines. Supposing apple did release a tv,
how would it make any sense to have a product called "AppleTV" that isn't a
tv? Maybe you're right, but I stand by my own estimation.

~~~
jasonlotito
No, they can't kill off the AppleTV with it's current form factor. They can
create a TV, but the current form factor (headless) will remain. If they did,
the Apple TV initiative would fail.

And I'll explain why. Just like Apple had to support Windows with their
product lines, an Apple TV has to support other TVs. People like to forget
that the first iPod didn't support Windows. Also consider that AppleTVs do
their part in helping to sell devices. Right now, it's $99 to buy a device to
extend the usefulness of my other devices. If we turn that around and I had to
spend $2000 for a full blown TV just to put pictures up there? Yeah, not going
to happen.

Can they release a TV? Of course! Will they rid themselves of the Apple TV as
it stands? No.

On a side note: > Apple has said before that they break even from iTunes.
iTunes exists as a low cost way for them to sell more devices.

Yes. And remove iTunes from the picture and the whole ecosystem there, and see
how many iPhones or iPods they sell. People buy these devices _because_ of
iTunes.

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protomyth
I get the feeling we are going to get these type of stories for the next
several years. "Steve Jobs wouldn't have done that" or "Steve Jobs didn't like
that" will be a pretty good link-baited headline.

He assembled a good crew of people who are going to do some things different
(e.g. charity contributions). Some of the things might have been left as
"notes / advise" by Steve Jobs in his last days and some might be new
thinking. We won't really know the whole story.

Apple changes every day is the only constant.

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jsz0
The new UI is temporary just like the previous ones have been. There have been
at least 3 major redesigns of the UI so far. They change as needed to
introduce new features. The current design is to make room for third party
content & services. In this sense the current generation Apple TV is just a
place-holder for a future product. Apple has said as much by referring to it
as a hobby. What they are doing is laying the groundwork for this future
product. AirPlay, iOS Remote, 1080P video, third party services with sign-up
and payment, iCloud, etc. The current generation Apple TV is almost just a
public beta test of these technologies. When they are ready to do the 'real'
Apple TV they will introduce an entirely new UI to go with it.

This sort of public R&D isn't what Apple normally does but I think the
challenge of building this product requires it. They need to soften the ground
a bit. Of course other companies are working on the same things which helps
too. People are comfortable with IPTV services. Current residential broadband
can keep up fairly well with good 1080P video. The more SmartPhones and
tablets sold the closer we are to ditching a dinky multi-button remote control
in favor of multi-touch control. The integration with the cloud for re-
downloading content and interconnecting different devices solves a ton of
usability problems. Step by step each one of these changes are laying the
groundwork for something bigger.

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ugh
The Apple TV had numerous different UIs over the years, so it's safe to
conclude that Steve Jobs also said yes to a UI in the past that he should have
thrown out.

Steve Jobs mad numerous false calls over the years. He can be wrong, you know.

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davidcann
The Apple TV seems to be moving toward an app based approach, so perhaps this
UI simply makes more sense in the current ecosystem.

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thehodge
When the Apple TV gets apps I think we will start to see the beginning of the
end for Nintendo... thats the iPod for on the move and the Apple TV for the
home casual gaming..

You can buy a wii game for £40 or almost 80 59p silly games on the Apple tv...
and using iphones / ipod touches as an additional controller...

~~~
shawndumas
With AirPlay Apple TV has apps right now.

[http://firemint.com/2011/guide-to-setting-up-airplay-and-
par...](http://firemint.com/2011/guide-to-setting-up-airplay-and-party-play/)

~~~
thehodge
But you still need a device to stream it to... I've been looking for a way of
running our conference using apple tv's I'd love to be able to send all the
keynote presentations to the apple tv without having to have a device to
stream them..

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j45
It's known that Jobs wasn't always right and employees actively did things
away / around him that were right.

If Steve Jobs had his way keyboards would have no arrow keys.

I'm glad my Mac has arrow keys :)

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adamjernst
I found the new Apple TV UI to be a significant improvement, for what it's
worth.

~~~
jws
I find it a mixed bag. I think I navigate it faster, but it is a grid of
random technicolor barf.

They should take the next step, let me exile the stuff I never use and bump up
the size of the stuff I do use, or open an App ecosystem and let me add more
stuff that I do want to use.

Unrelated speculation: The Apple TV has been repeatedly characterized as a
"hobby" by Apple. I'm sure they'd love to distribute all major TV and movie
content, but they can't get the content owners in line. But what happens now
if they do get the content owners to agree to the business model of being paid
by happy consumers? The Apple brand is so aglow, and the cost of the AppleTV
unit so low, that the demand could go from near zero to internet crushing
levels in a matter of weeks. They may have lost the luxury of a controlled
ramp up.

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stevenp
It's interesting -- I've been living in a furnished rental in Hawaii for the
last few months where I have a very small TV (maybe 22"?) and I've had my
Apple TV hooked up to it since I got here. Before the update, I found it very
hard to read the menus across the room, but I do think the new design is much
better for smaller screens. I have a feeling the giant blocks would irritate
me if I still had my 60" plasma ( _sob_ I miss that TV) but for a more modest
screen, it really makes life easier. Ideally I'd love to be able to mirror the
menus in the Remote app so that I don't have to squint to read the Netflix
reviews and descriptions.

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Tyrant505
Jobs threw a lot of things away that may have been sufficient, but always
wanted to push for even greater implementations and innovations in new
products/services.

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padobson
I haven't used the latest iteration of the AppleTV UI, but I did use the last
version, and I found it to be pretty terrible. Any time text input was needed,
it was a nightmare.

I don't know if the new UI took care of that problem, but coupled with the
remote (clearly a case of aesthetics chosen of utility), I found the entire
experience to be decidedly less enjoyable than any other living room interface
- XBox360, PS3, or any cable set top box.

~~~
spullara
You can use your iPad / iPhone for text input -- but that isn't what this
article is addressing. They moved from a text menu type selection system to a
grid of applications type system.

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DannoHung
I really like the new design, but I want folders so I can put all the sports
junk that I don't subscribe to away in a corner.

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petermcd
Here's the follow-up article on TechCrunch talking with the guy who tweeted
this explaining why the fact Jobs threw away the UI isn't such a big deal:
<http://techcrunch.com/2012/03/24/jobs-apple-tv-margolis/>

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dhugiaskmak
Seems like a very long leap from "Now there is nobody to say 'no' to bad
design." to "The new UI is no doubt cleaner, simpler, easier to use, and more
in line with the now-popular iPad UI and Lion’s Launchpad." If I weren't
wearing such a well-constructed tinfoil hat I'd say that someone got a call
from an Apple legal employee who wasn't happy to be working on a Saturday.

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pedalpete
For those not sure what the new UI looks like, there's an image here
[http://www.cultofmac.com/155915/steve-jobs-hated-the-new-
app...](http://www.cultofmac.com/155915/steve-jobs-hated-the-new-apple-tv-ui-
but-apple-changed-it-anyway/)

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badclient
Isn't Apple TV one of the less successful Apple products? Some may even say a
rare flop(by Apple standards).

The bar is very high for Apple products. The iPod killed the CD player. The
iPhone revolutionized the phone market. But the Apple TV? It's yet to cause
much disruption.

~~~
jsz0
Hard to say. I think Apple said they sold 3 million of them last year which
would make it very successful within the tiny dedicated IPTV set top market.
It's not really a finished product yet. The current Apple TV is like the
Motorola Rockr. A hint of things to come but definitely not ready to make a
big splash. It's interesting to note though that NetFlix says they stream more
video to Apple TVs than iPads. So something is definitely starting to happen
here but I think we're still a couple of years away from the Apple TV really
being a mass market device.

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davidedicillo
He also threw out the concept of native apps until he changed his mind she he
saw it made sense.

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curtisspope
knew it.not really. it just looked odd

