

BBC gives children mini-computers in Make it Digital scheme - hanoz
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31834927

======
shakermakr
Wow. Surprised at the negativity here :( The BBC is giving every kid in the UK
a free hackable computer. And we're moaning about the unit production cost or
its comparison to Raspberry Pi? Perhaps the backstory of the BBC and its
previous role in computing isn't captured here...

Like many other now 30 year olds in the UK, I grew up hacking games on a BBC
Micro my school had, my family couldn't afford a decent machine at home so it
was my only introduction to computers. And before the BBC Micro, most schools
couldn't afford a set of computers either. It allowed us to learn to code in
the lunch breaks, after school. It seriously drove many UK kids to code and
now having a happy career in computing.

Now kids will get a similar, even more personal introduction to computing in
an age of tap-and-swipe computing.

I for one applaud the decision!

~~~
nonuby
Got to do something to win public appeal I guess (as for those reading outside
the UK the BBC is publicly funded and it is a criminal not civil offence not
to pay TV license
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_Uni...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom)),
this isn't an area the BBC should be spending.

How about we skip the BBC, let schools purchase Raspberry Pi's as they desire
and claim directly from a government fund (this I would certainly support)

If its anything like their contract IT spending they probably paid more than
market rate too...

~~~
arethuza
"How about we skip the BBC"

But that would imply the funds come from the Treasury from general
taxation/borrowing - which seems unlikely in this age of austerity.

The BBC arguably has a lot more freedom to do this kind of thing given its
main revenue source is its own hypothecated tax in the form of the license
fee.

Good on them I say - at least they are doing _something_ interesting rather
than the usual nonsense we hear about education directly from politicians.

~~~
pjc50
While I generally support the BBC, the TV license is the most regressive of UK
taxes^ and people are jailed for non-payment of comparatively very small
amounts.

^(The "bedroom tax" is much worse in impact but not technically a tax)

~~~
arethuza
I agree that the collection of the license fee is often heavy handed - but
wasn't that outsourced a while back?

~~~
pjc50
It's outsourced to Capita, yes. If anything that makes it slightly more
objectionable. Outsourcing is not a way of avoiding your moral
responsibilities.

------
afandian
I got so excited just looking at the picture.

Programming really just boils down to loops, ifs and subroutines. The tricky
bit isn't explaining how to construct programs, it's the individual making the
leap and working out how to compose it to create new functionality, express
abstract concepts etc. Everyone can get the mechanical first bit, not everyone
can makes the leap, but it's a great idea to get every young person to at
least try.

What's needed is the simplest possible platform that allows the expression and
execution of programs, coupled with simple and compelling input and output
(everyone loves LEDs). No distractions.

I started programming on a BBC Micro as a child. You got a BASIC command line
by default and a simple text and graphics screen. Nothing else to distract
you. Nothing to break, and zero barrier to entry, so you could experiment
without fear. I think it was the ideal environment to learn on, and I honestly
think that they should still make machines like that.

I think was only co-incidence that state-of-the-art was also just-right-for-
children (and also sufficiently extensible to to more interesting things), and
that's what made the 80s/90s a bit of a golden age (at least in the UK).

I'm not sure what I'd do if I had to teach programming to an eight-year-old
child today. Probably a LISP / Clojure REPL (and have to deal with the child
being teased in the playground for not having mutable state). I've heard
people say "everyone has web browser with JavaScript" but that's already too
many moving parts and too much to think about when you just want to talk about
if statements without distractions.

This MicroBit looks absolutely ideal. It's also kind of shaped like an owl,
which is a brilliant echo of the BBC Micro logo.

~~~
sparkslabs
I was aiming for kitten and ended up with Owl. One of the earlier iterations
was slightly more kitteny. :)

~~~
afandian
I think the technical name is 'meowl'[0].

[0]
[http://www.reddit.com/r/OwlsWithCatHeads/](http://www.reddit.com/r/OwlsWithCatHeads/)

------
jgrahamc
Details of the "Micro Bit" machine:
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/makeitdigital/mi...](http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/makeitdigital/micro-
bit) Interesting that it has a built-in display (array of LEDs) and is
specifically 'wearable'.

A lot of people will say "Why isn't this a RaspberryPi?", but I think you only
have to stop and imagine the power of getting an 11 year old to build a
wearable device that scrolls their name or shows a symbol they chose (smiling
face, for example) to realize how much that could spark imagination and
curiosity.

I own multiple RaspberryPis and have actually used Scratch on one. It's nice
but it takes a hell of a lot of set up and the programming environment is
restrictive.

The LEDs on this device will be what makes it fly because anyone can suddenly
think "Now, what could I make those little lights do". You don't get the same
effect with a Pi.

The pictures I've seen show the CPU as an ATMEL Mega32U4:
[http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega32u4.aspx](http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega32u4.aspx)

~~~
chrisBob
I am not sure why they compare it to the RPi it looks like a microcontroller
board not a small general purpose computer. I feel like Arduino is already
doing very well in this space but the LED array is a nice feature.

~~~
gushie
Unfortunately despite their best efforts, the BBC are not necessary as clued
up as they could be on the tech reporting front. They likely compare it to an
RPi because they look vaguely similar from a distance, if you're short
sighted.

~~~
teh_klev
They don't make any comparisons anywhere in the linked article. The only
mention of the RPi is in the context of connectivity with other devices:

> And the Micro Bit can even connect and communicate with these other devices,
> including Arduino, Galileo, Kano and Raspberry Pi, as well as other Micro
> Bits

In fairness this is really just a press release, not a news item. The tone and
technical content of the release suggests quite probably that it is not
written by one of their technology hacks (and by that I mean journalists such
as Rory Cellan-Jones). Rather it's a management level tech summary or proposal
packaged up for PR use.

------
sgt
A second there I read it as "BBC gives children minicomputers" and I imagined
a PDP-11 surrounded by school children.

~~~
JonnieCache
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tomorrowsworld/8008.shtml](http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tomorrowsworld/8008.shtml)

(Not a minicomputer, it seems to take up half a building, but this will
definitely satisfy you :)

One of my favorite bits of video ever. I'd love to know what some of those
kids got up to in later life.

EDIT: I forgot how great this is. One of the boys wrote his own interpreter!

oh, and their debug routine...

------
pbhjpbhj
Wonder what the unit production cost is and how it compares to a bulk order of
Arduino - strikes me that they could have fit the thing in to an existing
ecosystem and reduced the support cost. Moreover what't the project cost and
expected uptake, and impact, versus something like making n x 10^5 RPi's
available to school kids who want them.

Hopefully will be able to pick some of these up to use with my own (younger)
kids despite them saying they're not going to make them further available.

 _Der Blinken lights_ though, who would not want one!

>BBC Learning's Gareth Stockdale, who is developing the device, said: "The
BBC's role is to bring focus to the issue, and then we will withdraw from the
market."

>After the first million Micro Bits go out to schools there will be no more.
//

Doesn't sound like the way to build a learning platform to me.

>"With a dedicated season of programming on the BBC, 5,000 digital trainees,
one million children who take their first steps with a Micro Bit, and a host
of educational activity, we hope to inspire a new generation to get creative
with digital," said Jessica Cecil, controller of Make it Digital. //

You can lead a horse to water, as the aphorism goes. One million "Micro Bits"
given out doesn't mean the same number of kids will use them unless. Even if
they're introduced in to school curricula then you're not going to have a 100%
take-up.

~~~
pjc50
_After the first million Micro Bits go out to schools there will be no more_

Aargh. That pretty much guarantees it's a platform that's sinking from day 1.
Unless they're smart enough to open source the whole thing so they can be
freely cloned. It's as if they learned nothing from the Domesday Book
(brilliant tech dead-end of the 80s).

~~~
alex_hitchins
Yes, it's not a good sign. I guess it's to keep licence fee payers from
moaning about paying for it all.

If they could open source it then it could live post Beeb.

~~~
thawkins
Dont worry the chineses will reverse engineer and clone it in about 20
seconds, and cheap copies will be everywhere.

------
TickleSteve
As much as I like and support the Pi, this is a much simpler device and will
be potentially more understandable. Modern OS's add too much abstraction to
what is essentially quite a simple device.

I personally learned (in the 80's) on a similar microcontroller-sized machine
(z80 & 6502) at a younger age than this is aimed at and reaped the benefits...

Hopefully ARM based rather than AVR, but if not, its still the right approach
IMO.

~~~
dominicgs
> Hopefully ARM based rather than AVR

ARM, Freescale and Nordic Semiconductor are partners of the project. While the
chip in the photo appears to be Atmel (my eyesight may be failing me here),
the material seems to suggest that the design is still being worked out, so an
ARM device seems likely.

~~~
TickleSteve
I would agree... it looked to me like something similar to an STM32F103.

Fingers crossed.

As much good as Arduino has done for the Maker community, the AVR architecture
is outdated.

~~~
danellis
The prototype is clearly an ATmega32U4. The Atmel logo is clear, you can just
about make out the part number, and it only has 44 pins.

While the Arduino did great things, I don't really see much point in
continuing with 8-bit MCUs as hobbyist platforms. ST's Nucleo boards, for
example, are far more powerful and very cheap at only $10. They also support
the mbed platform with its online compiler, which makes it pretty easy to get
started with. There's still a lot of room for improvement in the software,
though.

------
MarcScott
I may be wrong, but this looks more like an Arduino than a Pi.

Plug it into your computer, write your code on your computer and then push it
out to the micro bit, to control the onboard LEDs.

Still, I'll look forward to having a play around with these with my Year 7s in
September.

~~~
wlesieutre
It does. The Pi comparison more likely comes from the Raspberry Pi Foundation
being an UK-based educational nonprofit with the mission of making computer
education more accessible. Sounds like the BBC has a similar goal here.

------
jgrahamc
_The BBC is also launching a season of coding-based programmes and activities.
It will include a new drama based on Grand Theft Auto and a documentary on
Bletchley Park._

How does a 'drama based on GTA' help at all?

~~~
ascorbic
Maybe it's a drama based on the making of GTA, rather than the game itself?
Rockstar North is in Scotland after all. Is there an interesting story behind
it?

~~~
michaelx386
There's a book by David Kushner called Jacked[0] about GTA's development. He's
also the author of Masters of Doom[1].

[0]
[http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007434855](http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0007434855)

[1]
[http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0749924896](http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0749924896)

~~~
ascorbic
Seems I was right. It is a drama about the making of GTA. [http://www.develop-
online.net/news/90-minute-grand-theft-aut...](http://www.develop-
online.net/news/90-minute-grand-theft-auto-drama-coming-to-bbc-two/0204263)

------
timthelion
The article failed to give any attention to what kind of software and hardware
the computer will run. While I think that it is important to focus on other
aspects, and us techies often focus too much on the technical, this lack of
attention to the choice of software platforms is worrying to me. I hope that
these children will be exposed to a standard set of tools or an open platform,
rather than being lead into a proprietary platform where their skills will be
reliant on the grace of a single corporation.

Think of all the children who today learn Microsoft Office. They have been
trained, not to be users of computers, but to be customers of a single
platform.

~~~
chrisBob
>Think of all the children who today learn Microsoft Office. They have been
trained, not to be users of computers, but to be customers of a single
platform.

They are trained to be customers of a single platform that many jobs (all of
the ads I looked at recently) specifically require skills in. I am a big open
source fan, but until businesses start asking for people proficient in _any
office suite_ then I recommend schools stick with MS Office.

------
72deluxe
Interesting device, but as one who had a BBC Micro (and still has it), the
Micro enabled you to get programming on it straight away; this does not. You
need another machine. Plus, flashing LEDs is not quite the same as the User
Port or mode 7 graphics output...

I was saddened to see the plans for a drama based on Grand Theft Auto as being
part of it though - surely a drama based on beating people up, stealing cars
and shooting people isn't a great thing to be promoting to youngsters? Who
thinks these things up? Are they going to be showing this to 11 year olds too?
A great future generation we'll have to look forward to then!

------
alex_hitchins
I was rather excited thinking this was going to be an old BBC Micro in a new
tiny form factor. Sadly, looks like I am wrong. Anyone else like a BBC Micro
in a credit card sized package? Do they already exist?

~~~
homarp
Buy a RPi and install beebem ( [http://beebem-
unix.bbcmicro.com/](http://beebem-unix.bbcmicro.com/) ) or advmess (
[http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=23113](http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=23113)
)

------
asg
We played around with what I believe was a prototype version of this at the
BBC stall at last summer's Edinburgh festival. The kid loved it.

This is of course nothing like the RPi. You board has a grid of LEDs that you
can control by uploading a program which you write on a regular PC. When we
tried it, we were coding in a Scratch like environment.

------
azurelogic
While I'm excited for these kids, the title does not deliver. There is a
distinct lack of minicomputers:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer)

I was totally expecting something more like the video where they take kids
born in 2000 and show them a VCR.

------
slimbods
I love this idea. One of the hardest parts of teaching kids to lean coding is
giving them a reason to do it. With the led's and bluetooth there will be
plenty of fun projects to do. I've been helping out at our local code club and
would love to get my hands on a box of these.

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frazerb
Any idea of the power source for this beastie ? It's not very 'wearable' if I
have to plug it into a computer (via) USB to power it....

~~~
sparkslabs
Prototype uses a 2032 battery (as seen in some photos) and can run the display
continuously for several days. If you run it more realistically with the
device going to sleep you gain alot more run time.. When taken to production,
battery life is very much a consideration. Worth bearing in mind that the
version being shown is a prototype, and the partners involved have a lot of
experience in low power computing.

------
Slippin-Jimmy
Minicomputers? Great. What are they on, PDP-11? VAX?

------
nodata
Why are these not Pis? Anyone know?

~~~
deutronium
I think something like this would be better than a Pi to get people into
electronics, as theres no OS to concern yourself with.

If you want to make a small electronic gadget, something like a
microcontroller makes more sense, as it'd be _much_ lower power than a Pi.

And additionally you could generate more accurate timing signals for things
like VGA etc, than with a Pi.

------
MistahKoala
I look forward to buying mine on eBay, at a slightly-inflated price.

------
SmellyGeekBoy
A drama based on Grand Theft Auto? Aimed at 11 year olds? Umm...

~~~
hellweaver666
It's a drama based on the production of GTA, not the game. Likely because it's
made by Rockstar North who are based in the UK. It's either them or
Codemasters who have become a bit of a sweatshop from what I've heard from ex-
employees.

------
beshrkayali
Maybe this is cool for some and not so cool for others, but it bugs me that
they are calling them "coding devices". Feels somewhat degrading to
encapsulating software engineering and development into "coding".

~~~
danellis
Why is it degrading?

