
Joi Ito: Dubai bashing and 'what-aboutery' - ivankirigin
http://joi.ito.com/weblog/2009/04/13/dubai-bashing-a.html
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endtime
>The author of the article in The Independent defends his position and says
that critics of his article are suffering from 'what-aboutery'. It's not a bad
rebuttal, but I'm not sure the article was really intended to try to make
things better for those oppressed workers, but rather just to piss on Dubai
some more along with everyone else.

No, the article was written with the intent of self-defense from fallacious
criticism.

>I don't want to sound too defensive about Dubai or the Middle East in
general, but one thing I've learned from my still brief time is that it's much
more complicated than it appears. Just calling Muslim law and governance
"medieval" and writing it off is ignorant.

It's not ignorant at all. Most of the people I've heard say that have a very
thorough understanding of Sharia.

There are many other such examples that I can't really be bothered to list.
Simply, this article is not objective.

~~~
raheemm
I think "Dubai bashing" is in style now. This is not to say that the problems
there are illegitimate. BUT, simply bashing everything about Dubai is not a
fair analysis either. There are some great things about Dubai such as a
relatively progressive social attitudes, capitalism, entrepreneurship,
boldness of vision, etc.

~~~
mahmud
Don't worry, it's just Western hypocrisy. Dubai is just another fiefdom with
oil that hired some good PR agencies and did a few things that pleased "the
West."

Sure. However, Western patience only goes so far. They will ignore your crimes
as long as it profits them, but as soon as they start to lose money they will
notice how "barbaric" and "backward" you are.

Dubai is a victim of the economic crisis, and people have lost money there,
including many Westerners. The people advocating for labor rights in Dubai are
not friends of the working man. They're the same carpet-bagging finance
parasites that got us into this mess. If their revolutionary spirit and humane
conscious suddenly spring to life, it's only because Dubai represents the
oriental Other, and with the collapse of its economy the last chord of Western
loyalty to its petrodollar was cut and the Western Man is free to attack it,
waving Human Rights as a banner. The Western Man can slap a Human Rights
bumper sticker on a missile and sleep happy at night, knowing he is delivering
his Way of Life to whoever is on the receiving end (the survivors can always
accept democracy :-)

Read up on what they wrote on Hong Kong in the middle of last decade; the
handover to China coincided with the Asian financial crisis and Western media
went full out racist and sinophobic. A decade later they were all friends of
China and singing its praises, until China crashed itself and now they're
decrying China holding so much T-bills.

[Edit: Oh, silent disapproval ;-]

~~~
jan_g
>If their revolutionary spirit and humane conscious suddenly spring to life,
it's only because Dubai represents the oriental Other

This is not exactly correct. There's nothing sudden about Dubai criticism
(foreign worker exploitation, etc.). The criticism existed for a decade, at
the very least. It is true however, that many people are ignorant and weren't
aware of "Dubai issue" until now that it's gone mainstream in journalism.

~~~
mahmud
"The criticism existed for a decade, at the very least. It is true however,
that many people are ignorant and weren't aware of "Dubai issue" until now
that it's gone mainstream in journalism."

If "Dubai's issue" has been known for at least a decade, then why did Western
dignitaries, businessmen and the collective Judeo-
Christian/Capitalist/Democratic/Western/etc elite decide to ignore, and
instead choose to buy homes in artificial islands, shop, work, ski and golf in
the "gulf paradise" that was apparently built with "slave South Asian labor"?

To this day, it's the White Man that's edging the colored laborers in terms of
pay:

[http://www.arabianbusiness.com/research/salary-survey-
report...](http://www.arabianbusiness.com/research/salary-survey-
report-2009/feature/548493-brit-expats-earn-double-that-of-indian-
counterparts)

It's only when the paycheck bounces that the Westerner comes to realize the
error of his ways and cries "Equalité".

To this day, Google, the darling of your new economy and entrepreneurial
spirit is trying to get sponsored by Dubai police to filter their search
results:

<http://www.ameinfo.com/192326.html>

That's your "Do No Evil". Your words, as Westerners, are worth nothing.

Pathetic.

[Edit: and yes, I would _love_ to get some disagreeing remarks, along with the
obligatory head-in-the-sand down vote. I can't wait to tear someone's feel-
good opposition a new one. Hypocrisy has no leg to stand on, and I am more
than happy to show you Western hypocrisy crawl on its belly like the wet,
spineless worm it is.]

~~~
jan_g
What you are saying is not true. If some individuals (like one billionth of
Earth population) decided to buy, shop, play golf, etc. in Dubai that does not
mean that everyone on Earth collectively ignored/supported/whatever some
medieval regimes in middle east.

Generalization is seldom appropriate and certainly not in this case.

~~~
mahmud
"What you are saying is not true. If some individuals (like one billionth of
Earth population) decided to buy, shop, play golf, etc. in Dubai that does not
mean that everyone on Earth collectively ignored/supported/whatever some
medieval regimes in middle east."

Except it's not individuals. It's your governments, US and UK, that are
propping up every tyrannical backward regime in the Arab world, not to mention
minion usurping entities like Israel. The Petrodollar pwns your faux-
democracies and you KNOW it :-) 100 years ago the Westerners went into the
"middle east" to capitalize on arab oil and take advantage of the illiterate
Bedouin. Remnants of this is still seen in Western culture, the caricature of
the stupid wealthy arab:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd1D9T1koCI>

Alas, that's not how it turned out to be. Leaders of the free world are not
wasting time bowing to oil Sheikhs, kissing rings and holding hands (need I
link to the recent BO controversy?) Bin Laden's family were _escorted_ out of
the USA by the secret service few days after 911. British company, BAE, was
caught red-handed in bribery to close a multibillion dolars arms deal with
Saudi Arabia, and the Sheikhs threatened dire consequences if the UK
government prosecuted BAE and got their way.

The West and its values are a _bitch_ for hire, and a very cheap one at that.
And you know what I think of them when they cry foul wrt to "human rights"? I
just think they haven't been paid yet to keep quiet :-)

[Edit: P.S. How come I'm the only one here posting links and substantiating
evidence? you guys are just content with gut-feeling? ;-]

~~~
jan_g
I don't need additional evidence for stuff that is common knowledge.
Certainly, what you say about western nations' exploitations in the past (and
present) is true. That does not make criticism of Dubai untrue or unnecessary.

------
scrame
What strikes me as odd about this article is that it is supposed to address
"what-aboutery", but instead the whole article is _nothing_ but "what-
aboutery":

" That's why Japan needs to speak up about Burma, the Chinese need to speak up
about Africa and Americans about things like Guantanamo Bay. "

Nothing about the original article, or the "how to spot a lame argument" are
addressed, instead the original author is accused of just "finger wagging" and
looking for an excuse to "piss on Dubai".

He seems to utterly miss the point of the article he is responding to:
[http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-
har...](http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-
hari-how-to-spot-a-lame-lame-argument-1667373.html)

~~~
wyclif
I found this comment of Joi's from his post very, very telling:

 _I was impressed most by the Palestinians who were trying to cause change in
Palestine and the Israelis who were trying to change the way Israelis think._

So there is no possibility of Palestinians/Israelis changing the way
_Palestinians_ think?

------
sbt
I think this post raises an important more general point: that countries are
often held to different standards when it comes to human rights abuses.

Take Dubai as an example. It's clear that very serious human rights offenses
are going on in the country and that specific classes of foreign workers are
treated unfairly.

But do we really hold Congo to the same standards, where 45,000 are killed in
warfare every month? Certainly, the same offenses are going on in many
countries around the world. People in Europe have been talking about an
embargo on Israel similar to the South African apartheid embargo. But are
countries that are committing similar offenses and worse held to the same
standards?

------
ZeroGravitas
This is another example of what-aboutery, but relevant I think:

Anyone remember the guy who testified to congress that the US Embassy in Iraq
was being built with the exact same kind of slave labor as is apparently
common in Dubai?

His testimony: <http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070726115247.pdf>

quote: "My statement will address labor abuse, human trafficking, and other
concerning issues that I personally witnessed at the construction site of the
U.S. Embassy in Baghdad"

Another source, with a similar story.
<http://www.antiwar.com/ips/phinney.php?articleid=9919>

