
Laying a trap for self-driving cars - chris-at
https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/17/laying-a-trap-for-self-driving-cars/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29
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Eridrus
This definitely seems like an idea created and propagated by people with no
idea about how these systems work. The Cruise Automation/GM videos show the
cars crossing lane markings when a truck is blocking traffic in their lane, so
these systems are being built to realise that while traffic laws may say one
thing, practice requires something different.

Certainly entertaining though.

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ChuckMcM
I agree, it was entertaining. You can imagine the next James Bond car has a
gadget with two paint dispensers that shoots out on a rail to one side of the
car, starts firing paint and then moves out to the right drawing a double
yellow line that forces the bad guys in their self driving car off on to the
shoulder :-). And no, I don't think any self driving car worth it's salt would
fall for this. Fun to simulate though.

I enjoyed that 'smart car' joke that went "I was standing in the garage
because I had forgotten where I had parked my self driving car, then it hit
me."

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coldcode
I still want to see a self-driving car in Minnesota in winter. Road markings,
what road markings? For that matter where is the road?

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fdej
The road markings will be clearly visible, of course, since there will be
self-driving snowplows around 24/7.

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aqme28
How are the road markings visible to the first snowplow?

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benjamincburns
Lots of other people talk about fancy GPS systems in this thread, but it's
been done for far longer with much simpler, arguably more reliable technology:
long poles/sticks either painted with bright high vis paint, or more recently,
retroreflectors.

It reminds me a bit of the story about NASA and the gazillion dollar space
pen, vs the soviet space agency and their pencils.

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jsm386
Sure, why not a "gazillion" at this point:

> When the solution of providing astronauts with a ballpoint pen that would
> work under weightless conditions and extreme temperatures came about,
> though, it wasn’t because NASA had thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars
> (inflated to $12 billion in the latest iterations of this tale) in research
> and development money at the problem. The “space pen” that has since become
> famous through its use by astronauts was developed independently by Paul C.
> Fisher of the Fisher Pen Co., who spent his own money on the project and,
> once he perfected his AG-7 “Anti-Gravity” Space Pen, offered it to NASA.

Via
[http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp](http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp)

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lern_too_spel
The Soviets used the Fisher Space Pen, too.
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-
fiction-n...](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-
spen/)

Pencils have issues with electrical systems, waste, and flammability.

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parenthephobia
> Of course, it’s just a regular car he drives into it for demonstration
> purposes.

Because a self-driving car wouldn't have any reason to drive into the circle,
so it wouldn't get "caught".

The actual reason a regular car is used is because this is an "art
installation" and not a serious critique of self-driving algorithms.

A more effective trap would be a "no entry" sign on a one-way street (or one
side of a dual carriageway), positioned so the car can't see it before
entering the street.

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gruez
>A more effective trap would be a "no entry" sign on a one-way street (or one
side of a dual carriageway), positioned so the car can't see it before
entering the street.

reminds me of rollercoaster tycoon where you could trap guests indefinitely by
using that technique.

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dnautics
you could make a "do not enter" sign with undertext saying "except non-self-
driving cars".

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kbos87
I wonder if we'll eventually see a world where the former Uber drivers who are
slowly being lulled into dependence fight back when their jobs are automated
away. Autonomous vehicles could be an easy target in a lot of ways, especially
when unoccupied. Slap some electrical tape on their sensors, chock their
tires, or confuse them with clever tactics like this.

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eeZah7Ux
> Autonomous vehicles could be an easy target

An orwellian, neworked device with hundreds of sensors, cameras, laser
scanners? Not so easy.

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zkms
If you actually want to damage sensors of unattended autonomous vehicles you
could do a lot worse than just like...shooting at it with a firearm. Delicate
precision sensors don't take to bullets too well, also using firearms lets you
be well outside the range of the target vehicle's sensors.

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joshu
I'm running an autonomous driving event in a few weeks. I guess we could try
this out?

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tyingq
I suspect you'll see some real world versions of this sort of thing from
truckers when self driving semis get some traction.

Truckers are very well organized, both officially via unions and informally
via radio shows, newsletters, online forums, and the like.

Not that it will accomplish much, but it will be a lively transiton.

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RamenJunkie_
Instead of putting truckers back on trucks, they will just put security on
them, until it stops.

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bluejekyll
Actually, this raises some rather large questions about intent of someone
fooling a self-driving car. Laying a trap for the occupants, so that they can
be easily robbed.

Like the mischief being mentioned against trucks and Uber's by drivers (we can
almost guarantee this will happen), what about just strait up traps for
robbery?

There were some cases of this with the Pokémon game right?

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mirimir
In recent memory, someone posted a great collection of illusions for self-
driving vehicles. Can't find it, though :(

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JulianMorrison
You could probably trap a self driving car just by walking out in front of it
and refusing to move aside.

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russdill
People do this to regular cars already with acts such as stealing stop signs.
In some ways self driving cars will be easier to fool, but in other ways more
difficult (eg, intersections with stop signs may also be contained in a
database).

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dsfyu404ed
The best ones I've seen don't steal the sign, they take a big wrench and twist
the post 90deg

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revelation
Let's make art of our ignorance!

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synaesthesisx
What if someone drew (false) lane markers leading off the edge of a cliff?

