
Something is wrong when the ‘telephone app’ on your phone becomes 3rd party - guy-brush
https://martinruenz.de/article/data-privacy/2017/05/03/something-is-wrong.html#page-content
======
Voloskaya
Or that just means that we still call the device in our pocket a "phone" for
legacy reasons. If we are okay with having a third party handles our messages,
VoIP etc, why not the phone app?

~~~
nkrisc
I don't carry a phone in my pocket, I carry a personal computer that also
makes voices calls over cellular networks.

~~~
WorldMaker
I've been joking lately that there is a new one syllable word for "personal
computer": phone. At the current rate that's how the language will shift. I
suppose we'll know if people start referring to things like "macOS deskphones"
and think "laptop" always meant "laptop phone". :)

It's like those futurist ads from the 50s (and 80s/90s) AT&T that soon there
will be phones capable of amazing things everywhere in our lives, except they
aren't all AT&T branded and most of them started with the name "personal
computer". (Though savor the irony that Ma Bell's legacy lives on in Linux by
way of Bell Labs' contributions to Unix.)

Then again, I'm also strongly for renaming 3D Printers to facsimile machines
because the word fax is too useful to lose to ancient toner-based modem
printers.

~~~
krrrh
Mobile phones are called "Handys" in German. It's become such a satisfying and
appropriate name for handheld computers, as distinct from traditional personal
computers.

In British English, they've always called cellphones "mobiles", which is also
a nice short name for mobile computers.

~~~
ceejayoz
In American English, a handy means... something else.

Mobile could work, though, and I've heard it used.

~~~
DanitaBaires
In Argentina is "el celular" as in "teléfono celular", or sometimes like in
Spain "el móvil" which I like better because it means "the mobile", which in
the long term could mean "the mobile computer".

~~~
gambiting
In Polish it's "komórka" which literally means "a cell"(like a cell in your
body).

------
mcherm
I completely disagree with the title. The fact that "telephony" can be an app
on the phone is a WONDERFUL thing. It means that the author of this article
has a choice, as opposed to NOT having a choice.

~~~
andybak
I'll be Mr. Reasonable Compromise. It's both a wonderful thing and a risk.
Which of those two it becomes depends on the entire ecosystem around
installable apps, trust and verification.

I've never had a problem with 3rd party dialers on Android. But I can smell a
scam and I'm technically literate.

To the best of my knowledge there's never been a major dialler related
security mishap. In fact much of the panic about Android's "malware ridden
ecosystem" seems overblown. Nobody I know has ever had an issue to the best of
my knowledge.

But it's definitely a possibility and it's highly probable that eventually
something bad will happen on a large scale without some better controls -
albeit hopefully not the type that Apple imposes. Cost vs benefit and all
that.

~~~
proto-n
More choice always means more responsibility. You could argue against
democracy with the same idea - what happens if the voters choose someone not
worthy? A lunatic or someone downright malicious?

------
NeutronBoy
> This leaves me in an unpleasant spot as I, where I can, avoid using google
> services and now need to find an alternative dialling application. Isn’t
> this sweet? I am searching for a dialling application for my smartphone. A
> DIALLING application

You bought a Google phone and don't want to use Google services, but complain
that the dialler can be provided by a third party? Isn't that a good thing?

~~~
tomc1985
Why is dialing a phone a "Google Service"?

~~~
Phrodo_00
The AOSP dialer is not a Google Service, it comes with android.

Google phones have use a different launcher (Which might be a modified version
of the AOSP launcher, haven't used AOSP in a while) that provides unknown
number names, access to the voicemail-to-text feature of Project Fi (and
probably Google Voice), and probably a couple more things.

BTW, from the little I know, seeing google contacts in the dialer doesn't mean
that it's talking to google. Google services adds the contacts to the phone's
centralized contact management and the dialer gets them from there.

~~~
djsumdog
..but the point is the manufacture didn't provide the AOSP dialer. They added
a 3rd party dialer that you have to root the phone to disable and you need to
install a non-privacy invasive dialer either by finding an apk for the AOSP
version, using F-droid or using Google Play/AmazonApp services.

------
tomkarlo
It's always been a "telephone app", on smart phones. And in many cases, it's
already been somewhat "3rd party" because in reality it's from the ODM who
made your phone or the SOC vendor, not the company that branded your phone.
The author is only just becoming aware that this is "3P" because he happens to
have a branded dialer added on his phone, versus a "white label" dialer that
was already there.

I'm fairly certain Wileyfox didn't make the dialer that previously came with
his phone, either. (They're a smaller OEM.) They probably just used the one
provided by the ODM assembling the device for them.

------
Animats
It's a real problem. Are there any voice dialing programs for Android phones
which do voice recognition locally and don't require Google services? That's
the way it used to work until Google broke it so they could monitor all your
dialing.

~~~
bostand
Google in 2007: Do no evil.

Google in 2017: Skynet didn't build itself people! We need more ML training
data!

~~~
LeifCarrotson
Skynet v. 0.1 didn't build itself. Clearly, though, once it becomes a minimum
viable product, it will produce the next generations of itself.

Or will it? If it's an AI intent on approximating human speech processing, why
should it be any good at programming? See also
[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9658524/1/Branches-on-the-
Tree-...](https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9658524/1/Branches-on-the-Tree-of-
Time).

~~~
wayn3
I wonder what makes people think that an AI needs to be able to code to
improve itself. I don't see infant brains "programming" themselves to get
better.

The next step in programming is probably not anything like programming.
Machine learning certainly isn't. Creating a neural net that achieves
superhuman image recognition takes 30 lines of code in keras. And terabytes of
training data. But the programming doesn't look anything like someone in the
90s would have thought. Except maybe for a bunch of AI researchers.

~~~
chc
> _I wonder what makes people think that an AI needs to be able to code to
> improve itself. I don 't see infant brains "programming" themselves to get
> better._

That's largely because you haven't looked. Infants are constantly developing
and pruning pathways and connections in their brain, which effectively changes
both the hardware and the software.

~~~
wayn3
They don't do that consciously (with an agenda). Infants are just being
infants. If an AI just needs to keep doing AI things to "reprogram" itself,
then theres no barrier for it to do that.

~~~
vacri
Infants also don't survive by themselves. Leave an infant alone and it will
die.

~~~
wayn3
im just saying that infants are learning a whole lot without consciously
making an effort to do so. they just provide data through their sensors by
existing.

------
gruez
[https://www.wileyfox.com/the-brand](https://www.wileyfox.com/the-brand)

>UNRIVALLED PRIVACY AND SECURITY

>Choose precisely the data you wish to share; protect apps with additional
PINs; prevent spam with Truecaller Integrated Dialler.

So their idea of privacy is privacy from everyone except the manufacturer (and
"trusted" third parties)

>Of course, you can always root the phone and install custom roms. But this
process takes some time and the development and compatibility with these roms
is less than satisfactory.

Maybe he shouldn't have bought a device with such a small userbase?

~~~
zifnab06
FWIW their phones originally ran CyanogenOS. They're in the process of
updating to stock android [1], after cyanogen's recent
layoffs/pivot/rebranding/disaster [2].

[1] [http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/12/31/after-cyanogen-
colla...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/12/31/after-cyanogen-collapse-
wileyfox-is-working-on-its-own-software-updates-for-nougat/) [2]
[http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/11/28/cyanogen-inc-will-
sh...](http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/11/28/cyanogen-inc-will-shutter-
seattle-office-by-end-of-year-more-layoffs-happening-kondik-could-be-out/)

~~~
bbulkow
This.

CyanogenOS couldn't make money, and WF has trouble making money, because
everyone else subsidises the cost of the handset and software by selling data.

If you want to provide what they claim - unparalleled security and privacy -
you have to charge more, or charge a phone subscription fee for updates, or
something.

One can't expect to get subsidized-by-data-selling prices, and have no data
selling.

------
gumby
I don't agree. It's simply that some vendors are untrustworthy.

Frankly if the telephone app on my "phone" stopped working I wonder how long
it would take me to notice.

~~~
wlesieutre
If the dialer stopped working I'd never notice, but if the phone app broke
entirely I'd stop getting calls from telemarketers and loan scams.

~~~
tzakrajs
And vacation sweepstakes, and shitty recruiters, and IRS scams, and...

This must be the elephant in the room. Traditional telephony has become
dominated by bad actors. They hit a critical mass and now my phone app is a
waste of space.

~~~
wutbrodo
I've always found it weird how everyone I know seems much more cautious about
phone usage than me: for example, I've never understood why people don't
answer numbers they don't recognize.

I'm slowly realizing that this is because apparently people are inundated with
spam calls? I think I may have received one solitary spam call in my entire
life. I can't really account for the discrepancy

~~~
muppetman
Where do you live? I'm the same, 0 spam calls ever, but I live in NZ.

~~~
__jal
Looking over my call log, I have five incoming from humans I wanted to hear
from over the last seven days.

I have 27 from random numbers/places that I know from experience are scams.
This is a US number.

If you find your life lacking opportunities to get in to obscenity shouting
matches with random con artists, it is great! Otherwise, not so much.

~~~
muppetman
Wow, that's terrible. No wonder Google Dialer has a spam filter - I never
understood the point of it but now I do.

------
walrus01
I have never heard of a "Wileyfox Swift". If you need an awesome and capable
Android 7.0 based dual SIM phone with zero carrier crapware/bloatware and a
close to stock Android experience, the OnePlus 3T (64 or 128GB version) is a
good choice.

Since Oneplus' falling out with Cyanogen Inc, and the financial failure of
Cyanogen, Oneplus' own OxygenOS is essentially a re-implemented CyanogenMod
that has all of the same features.

~~~
edwintorok
I've almost buyed the Wileyfox Swift last week, but I'm glad that I've seen
discussions around Truecaller and the Zen ads, which changed my mind and opted
for a BQ Aquaris X5 Plus instead.

~~~
qznc
I recently bought a Swift 2+. I still like it.

Hopefully, Zen can be disabled with the next update:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/wileyfox/comments/64xga8/it_should_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/wileyfox/comments/64xga8/it_should_be_possible_to_disable_wileyfox_zen/)

~~~
mnw21cam
Zen can already be disabled. Long-tap the launcher background, tap settings,
and there should be a toggle labelled "Wileyfox Zen".

------
bostand
This why we need [edit] GDPR.

Next time someone tries to harvest my personal data using an "all-inclusive"
EULA I'm going to sue his ass in EU-land.

~~~
xemdetia
GPDR is actually GDPR in case you are trying to read up on what that means and
don't know already.

~~~
ShaneOG
Which is the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)[0]

[0] - [http://www.eugdpr.org](http://www.eugdpr.org)

------
leeoniya
i just bought a Volkswagen, which comes with Car-Net, which apparently relays
telemetry to Verizon Telematics via a 3G connection. oh and there's a gps
reciever and an in-car microphone.

their privacy policy is scary.

[https://carnet.vw.com/web/vwcwp/privacy-
policy](https://carnet.vw.com/web/vwcwp/privacy-policy)

dealer refuses to disable or remove this carnet module. their "solution" is to
tell me just not to sign up for the services. ummm..lol no. needless to say
i'm taking matters into my own hands via vw message boards and:

[http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/](http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/)

may have to physically remove the module and/or neuter the antenna.

------
thomseddon
Found myself in the exact same situation (have a WileyFox, updated and ended
up with the awful true caller app as the default dialler + found I couldn't
use the default google dialler), I've since been using:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.contapps.a...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.contapps.android.dialer&hl=en)
but it does have adverts, I'd welcome any other suggestions (aside from re-
flash).

Only today I was joking about how absurd it is that I was struggling with such
a fundamental feature.

------
ranveeraggarwal
Which is why I switched to Google-made phones (Nexus). No bloat, frequent
security up dates and default apps. Sure, Google knows what I'm having for
dinner, but it's a single entity I trust. At least I don't go about moving
through apps, reading their TnCs.

------
timsayshey
Too much traffic -- couldn't access the page.

Here's the cached version: [http://archive.is/vs4a7](http://archive.is/vs4a7)

------
tdicola
Looking at my cell phone bill I use far more data than I do actual voice a
month. It's kind of an anachronism to call it a phone anymore. It's a pocket
computer.

~~~
sprice
This is why I ported my phone number to Twilio and now I get an email when
someone calls me with an mp3 of voicemail + transcription. And I make free
outgoing calls with Google Dialer.

------
nemoniac
Can someone recommend a good, safe, privacy-respecting 3rd party phone app for
Android, preferably for Cyanogenmod or LineageOS?

------
bighi
You're not only using Android, but you're using an Android phone from a
smaller company.

While this is bad, it's not really unexpected.

------
on_and_off
What exactly is wrong with the dialler being an app ?

It allows exactly what the author wants with his specific desire for a dialler
that does not rely on play services or true caller.

~~~
imron
From the article:

"When You install and use the Services, Truecaller will collect personal
information from You and any devices You may use in Your interaction with our
Services. This information may include e.g.: geo-location; Your IP address;
device ID or unique identifier; device manufacturer and type; device and
hardware settings; SIM card usage; applications installed on your device; ID
for advertising; ad data, operating system; web browser; operator; IMSI;
connection information; screen resolution; usage statistics; default
communication applications; access to device address book; device log and
event information; logs, keywords and meta data of incoming and outgoing calls
and messages; version of the Services You use and other information based on
Your interaction with our Services such as how the Services are being accessed
(via another service, web site or a search engine); the pages You visit and
features you use on the Services; the services and websites You engage with
from the Services; content viewed by You, content You have commented on or
sent to us and information about the ads You see and/or engage with; the
search terms You use; order information and other usage activity and data
logged by Truecaller’s servers from time to time. Truecaller may collect some
of this information automatically through use of cookies and You can learn
more about our use of cookies in our Cookie Policy"

and

"We transfer information to trusted vendors, service providers, and other
partners who support our business and Services, such as providing technical
infrastructure services, bug testing, analyzing how our Services are used,
measuring the effectiveness of ads and services and facilitating payments as
well as potential partners who may wish to work with us to provide other
services."

~~~
on_and_off
Again, if the dialer is a system component does this and you can't remove it,
you are out of luck.

Since the dialer is an app, if for some reason you don't like it, you can
deactivate it (you can't uninstall preloaded apps since they are on a private
system partition, but disabling it is enough : it does not appear in the app
least and can't startup).

So you just have to install another that suits you better.

~~~
s73ver
The thing that did that IS a system component. They can't remove it. They can
only disable it.

~~~
kllrnohj
Disabling it is every bit as effective as removing it, though. It can't be
removed because it's on a read-only partition that pulls double duty as the
factory reset partition. But once disabled it's as good as removed. It doesn't
run. It doesn't get loaded. It basically doesn't exist outside of the button
that restores it.

------
TheCabin
I just came across this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/696dre/warning_to_...](https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/696dre/warning_to_all_wileyfox_owners_your_location_data/)

~~~
bostand
Oh, Yandex... So lovely.

Of course if NSA has my data its only fair that FSB also gets some too...

------
shipintbrief
Something is wrong when OP writes about dialer app that sells your private
info were installed on device without any warnings — and everyone tells the OP
that they don't really use phone app. Makes me question the humanity.

------
accountyaccount
Disagree entirely. The stock phone app is likely the least used app I keep on
my phone.

~~~
guy-brush
My main point is actually that I am forced to use this dialler without my
consent. I am not trying to say that users shouldn't be able to customise the
system but I am opposed to manufacturers forcing data-hungry 3rd party
programs on customers.

~~~
esMazer
at the same time, we can choose to install a different third party dialer no?

maybe what we need is a 3rd party dialer that pledges privacy.

~~~
bostand
The point is, this should not happen to core functionality. Specially not
sneaky like this.

~~~
NikolaeVarius
Define core functionality. We are carrying computers that happen to have a
radio that can communicate with cell towers. The phone functionality is just
as "core" as any other service that the OS exposes. (Camera, Web Browser, GPS)

~~~
TeMPOraL
It's still called a "phone", and it really sucks at being a computer (it is a
good entertainment device though). Since a lot of things are still done over
phone calls and every citizen in a civilized country is expected to be in
possession of a phone number, I'd qualify it as core functionality.

------
notsohuman
Somethings wrong with the idea that there can be apps installed in your phone
that could do things you don't know

------
bennyp101
When I updated it at the weekend, I too noticed that the dialer had gone -
which is annoying as I find the interface to Truecaller a bit of a pain - but
as I rarely make calls it's something I can live with. The incoming call
filtering and showing of names not in my phonebook is actually pretty useful.

When I bought my Wileyfox Swift 18 months ago it came with Truecaller as an
app already installed, and it integrated with the standard dialer well - ie I
could use the dialer app to make calls, and incoming calls would show info
from Trucaller. Not sure why they couldn't keep it like that.

------
mayneack
Many have already posted about how the phone is less important than
email/browser which we're ok with being 3rd party.

I didn't really think there could be a difference between phone apps until I
got project fi from Google. Their phone app comes with voicemail transcription
and spam detection. Some of that is obviously from the service itself, but
these features seem like things that I'd want to be able to acquire even if I
had an AT&T Samsung (which is what I moved from and didn't have by default).
Third party seems fine with me.

------
xenithorb
You don't need to root a phone to install a new operating system. What you do
likely need to do is unlock the bootloader, if at all possible.

If it's supported by LineageOS, use that instead. If not - perhaps consider
buying a phone that is. If you're really privacy conscious, perhaps look at
the CopperheadOS options - they're specifically known for privacy.

Other than that, this is the sad state of big data and advertising. Unless you
fight back agasint it, everything about you is going to be poked, proded, and
collected for futher processing and aggregation. Hell, a lot of you probably
work in that industry here.

You should not assume that any device manufacturer has your interests in mind,
as the trends have overwhelmingly shown that anything proprietary always leads
to them finding a way to further line their pockets as interest for their
product wanes, or their investors get greedier.

These are facts of life; take action but don't be surprised when you're being
misled and taken advantage of when you're putting the trust of something so
integral in a proprietary party.

Godspeed.

------
mmmBacon
I was out riding motorcycles with a friend. He went down and was pretty broken
up. As the ambulance loaded him up, I tried to use his Android phone to call
his wife to let her know he had been hurt and what hospital he was being taken
to. It was a stressful situation but I could not find the phone function at
first easily (no idea which distribution). The phone function is still really
important!

~~~
ptaipale
Over here (Finland, EU) there used to be standardisation that a mobile phone
must be able to make an emergency call even when the phone is locked, and even
when the phone's own carrier is out of coverage, or when there is no SIM card
- the call must be routed as a guest in any GSM network that is there.

That may now have changed, because the user instructions for iPhone say
(translation mine):

"iPhone can be used to make emergency calls in many locations, if mobile
services are available, but you should not trust on it in cases of emergency".

Yes, apparently iPhone user instructions say that when you're in an emergency,
don't count on iPhone. You should carry a phone with you in addition to
iPhone.

When dialing 112, the phone goes to a special mode: the call is prioritised
(if the cell is full, another call is dropped) and if carrier's network is not
there, the phone tries any other network.

(I've seen this work on my phone, but that time it didn't help, the guy died.)

------
bbulkow
One thought. A company like WileyFox must spend significant bucks to provide
after-the-fact engineering to provide updates. It would be a classic error to
underestimate the cost of ongoing engineering, and provide a lower up front
cost, then be strapped for cash later. At that point, WileyFox management
needs a revenue stream to provide the engineering to push 7.1.1. It would -
again I am guessing - typically turn to outside companies who pay for
placement, like the dialer. Those companies make money by selling data.

Thus I am not surprised that this is happening, although I had not heard of
WileyFox until today. It's also possibly WileyFox is greedy, but I'm going
with incompetence; I will believe first that someone made a mistake in pricing
and planning, and they're looking for the best outcome for customers, company,
brand.

I am, perhaps uncomfortably, saying that "you got an unexpectedly low price"
going with a company like WileyFox. They gave you a cheaper phone, and
frequent updates, and now they need to pay for it. They could either start
charging subscriptions for the 7.1.1 update ( which would be fair, no? ), or
they could do what they are doing by making a deal with what sounds like a
shady dialer company, or they could bail out and not provide the updates they
promised ( like most handset providers do ).

I could get all high-horse about software consumers being trained to expect
free software. That expectation being set by the billions of dollars in VC
money that has been spent to capture markets - markets that later require
"exploitation". But I won't go there - it's a complicated argument, there are
other market forces, there are models that work, companies can be "up front"
about data-driven business models.

My way of saying - you do have to pay for software, you took the 7.1.1 update,
you should expect to pay..... right?

------
10165
Is it true that carriers are increasingly switching to calling over WiFi? I
understand the new iPhones have this feature, with switchover happening
automatically.

Did the popularity of Facetime, WhatsApp, etc. have anything to do with this?
I have seen claims from carriers that WiFi calling "improves coverage".

At some stage, will anyone question what is the point of the cellular network?
Especially in urban areas.

What is the difference between

a. a "smartphone" and

b. a portable, pocket-sized computer with rechargeable battery where the user
chooses what to install and can remove any pre-installed software, where user
gets a choice of 1. using pre-installed software and default settings or 2.
using her own bootloader, kernel and userland, and where the user can easily
open the case and tinker.

Does a computer need to have any association with the company selling internet
access? Today's "phones" are manufactured for carriers (who are often ISP's,
too), not for users. The carriers in turn sell these customized "phones" to
users.

~~~
voltagex_
There's a few things at play here:

* [https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT203032](https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT203032) WiFi Calling, which is (AFAIK) prioritised VoIP. Helps offload some calls from the provider's network which may help in congested areas

* [https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT203124](https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT203124) VoLTE. Voice over LTE, rather than GSM (?) channels. Highly prioritised VoIP over LTE data. Should improve call quality via better voice codecs. Seems to simplify tower equipment for the telcos - Telstra in Australia has some "4G Only" towers in a few places where "standard" voice calling is unavailable. VoLTE isn't particularly widely available here.

Really happy to be corrected here - this is interesting stuff.

~~~
djsumdog
Sprint's older WiMax systems (4G), when enabled, would put all calls over IP
(starting with the HTC Evo 4G). It ate through battery though.

------
ris
So what makes you think Apple or Google aren't using your call information for
advertising purposes in the default diallers?

~~~
krrrh
Apple's record on privacy and business model give me pretty high confidence on
this one.

Google may have an incentive to add call info to the profile they keep on you,
but surely you're not thinking that they are as big of a privacy risk as some
random third-party that puts a dialer up on the play store.

Edit: I couldn't get the article to load, so I'm going by the other comments
to assume this was about scammy dialers tricking regular users on Android into
installing them. Obviously a dialer on a custom ROM modified for extra privacy
is a justifiable reason for making it replaceable on Android.

~~~
tomkarlo
He's actually writing about the dialer that _comes_ with the device OS (in
this case an OTA, I believe, but still, it's the default / 1P dialer. It just
happens to be a branded one rather than the "usual" white label dialer a
smaller OEM might provide.

------
skewart
One of the central complaints in the blog post is that it's too hard to get
your hands on an Android phone that doesn't come with impossible-to-remove
bloatware. I've been amazed and annoyed by this too.

I understand all the reasons why manufacturers add these apps to the phone.
But still, I would gladly buy a phone that came with a stripped down version
of Android, no bloatware, and received regular updates and security patches.

Sure, you can root your phone, and there are various ROMs out there that you
can install. But as someone who's never done this it seems kind of complicated
and annoying.

I want a simple experience where it just works right out of the box. Heck, I'd
be happy if to buy a phone from someone who just resells devices after
flashing a decent ROM onto them and makes updates easy somehow.

~~~
SXX
> Heck, I'd be happy if to buy a phone from someone who just resells devices
> after flashing a decent ROM onto them and makes updates easy somehow.

Sadly this would be useless without Google Apps and it's license forbid it.
Google doesn't care as long as you install GApps on your own device, but
anyone who try to sell would clearly trigger lawsuit.

------
AngeloAnolin
Did I read that correctly?

 _Isn’t this sweet? I am searching for a dialling application for my
smartphone. A DIALLING application._

Does this mean he can't practically call someone outside his contacts list as
there's no way to key in phone numbers? Or would he still be able to make
regular voice calls?

~~~
muppetman
He can't make calls, because he disabled the dialer app. The functionality is
still there in the phone, but he has no app that exposes it. Android truely
does provide enough "rope" to hang yourself if you start to disable apps you
shouldn't.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Yeah, the thing is, if dialer is an app you "shouldn't disable", then it also
should not be silently replaced by the vendor with third-party service, with
no easy way to revert that.

------
Fej
> This leaves me in an unpleasant spot as I, where I can, avoid using google
> services and now need to find an alternative dialling application.

AOSP dialer. Done. Don't want the truedialer app? Run CM, like it says in the
post.

~~~
s73ver
You mean the thing they were running, which updated to include the 3rd party
dialer app against their wishes?

------
dotBen
No, this is simply proof that consumers must pick carefully the hardware
vendor they decide to buy as which software it comes with will vary greatly
between devices. This is simply not an issue with Google Pixel/Nexus devices,
Samsung or any of the other major vendors.

Running Cyanogen (which has now no longer developed) nor 'GAPPS' (Google's
standard package of apps that gives you access to the Play Store, and the
stock dialer) is a pretty fringe use of Android.

~~~
qznc
Wileyfox officially came with CyanogenMod. That was one of their main
features. Now that CyanogenMod Inc is bust, they build their own stuff and
with the Update to Android 7 you get that. Turns out they also integrated two
other companies TrueCaller and Yandex.

------
TheStrangBird
Well in the end modern smartphones are just general purpose computers which
have some artificial restrictions on what you can do with them and happen to
have a touchscreen/modem/speaker/microphone etc.

So the dieler just being a app is a direct consequence from smartphones not
being any kind of "special/magical" embedded device.

Through silently overriding the Dialer with a program I would normally suspect
to be malware which sneaked on my phone is a horrible think to do...

------
meroje
The Swift originally shipped with CyanogenOS, which is not the same thing as
CyanogenMod. CyanogenOS already featured Truecaller on the dialler to show
names on incoming calls. I was confused too when the dialler disappeared from
my launcher, but I use it very rarely and essentially to receive calls so not
a big deal for me. I understand OP's concerns though.

------
loueed
Many companies are betting that phones will be phased out for augmented
reality glasses. Magic Leap, Microsoft, Facebook, Google, and Apple all have
teams working on it.

People expect these devices to accept sim cards, will this break the
confusion? My Smartglasses are a personal computer that also has phone
functionality.

------
steveharman
Aren't there loads of free "phone" (dialer) apps in the Play store? Just use
one of those?

------
jumpkickhit
Funny, I'm reminded of my HP Ipaq back in 2005 or so. 800mhz smartphone with a
stylus, wifi, running Windows CE.

It struck me as a portable computer, with "cellphone" functionality added as
an almost afterthought.

Guess that's still the case if you think about it.

------
smnplk
I have and idea for a VOIP app called The Stallminator. The app would feature
a nice backdrop of Richard Stallman's face
[http://tinyurl.com/msbkwb3](http://tinyurl.com/msbkwb3)

------
alinspired
This issue echoes many privacy-related discussions and the same approach for
android applies here:

    
    
      - unlock
      - install minimal 3rd party ROM (ie LineageOS)
      - choose what you want from Google via Open Gapps or use F-droid

------
InclinedPlane
It's fine. If you want a phone just for voice go buy a flip phone, they are
basically free and plans are cheap. If you want a smartphone, then deal with
the implications.

------
thuruv
Whether thats a Google service or not, the OP has clearly stating the point
that the problem he's facing now will have an evolution and affect even us in
future.

------
johnhenry
Unfortunately, in this day and age, I don't think it's reasonable to expect
privacy even from a first party application.

------
mdekkers
truecaller is something alltogether evil

------
ianseyler
My iPhone is my pocket computer. It's on a tablet plan (data only - up to 1GB
for $20 CAD) because voice and text is something I would hardly use. TextNow
worked fine for me in past for phone calls and texting non-apple devices but
I've since switched to Hushed as my go-to. I've never used the built in
"Phone" app.

~~~
PascLeRasc
What do you do about phone interviews?

~~~
ianseyler
TextNow/Hushed provides me with a local number to use. Any "burner" phone app
should work as well for that.

------
codewiz
_Double check which software you get with which device. Not being an apple
fanboy, I have to admit: At least you know what you get when buying an
Iphone._

I don't understand why some people compare a $650 iPhone 7 with cheap phones
loaded with some half-assed vendor fork of Android?

If you wanted stock Android, you should have bought a $650 Pixel phone.

------
guy-brush
I just updated the article to include further emails from truecaller and
wileyfox.

------
znpy
i am still wondering how comes that nobody came up with a phone application
for linux computers.

I have a 3G modem in my ThinkPad X220 and i am fairly sure it is technically
capable of doing and receiving phone calls.

------
jaimex2
And this is yet another reason why Cyanogenmod no longer exists.

------
dorianm
I thought it was about LinkedIn selling people's profiles :)

------
fulafel
How do I find a dialer app that's cloud-free?

~~~
onli
I haven't used it yet, but a quick search on F-Droid showed
[https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=dialer&fdid=...](https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=dialer&fdid=org.dnaq.dialer2),
which looks promising. I fit still works on a current android, but at least
F-Droid marks it as compatible.

------
agumonkey
I miss my motorola v3650.

------
lujingfengjeff
paixun

------
patmike830
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could not easily pin anything on him so i went on to hire him and he helped me
hack my husband's whats app and gave me unrestricted access to his accounts
including getting me on his facebook messenger, viber,wechat and he never
suspected…. He is a pro at Facebook,emails,twitter ,Instagram hacking and
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(promised to make this recommendation)

------
pilot72
You purchased a Chinese mobile phone and it installed spyware in an update.

Anybody who's ever purchased a mobile from eBay or AliExpress has already seen
that. They need to get their revenue from somewhere. Next time stick to a
known, trustable brand.

------
mtkd
I fought having a phone through to 2008 - now I'm reconsidering wanting one
again

if there was a pure messaging device right now with no voice - I'd bite their
hand off

I don't need a mobile browser or even apps - all they do is stop me from
disconnecting from work for a few minutes or hours - I don't think always-on
is good for anyone over time

~~~
nylonstrung
I'm sure you can find an android device that has a physical keypad, root it
and disable any call or mobile data functionality while keeping SMS intact.

~~~
onli
Actually, that's not that easy. There are not many android phones with
keyboard, and even less with a proper community for rooting it. I wouldn't
know a single one.

~~~
djsumdog
I don't think there's anything decent with a physical keyboard anymore. It's
sad. I'd seriously welcome the extra thickness for something like the old HTC
Evo Shift.

