
Ask HN: The most cyberpunk city in the world? - zabana
I&#x27;m currently re-reading Neuromancer by William Gibson. I Love how he describes the different cities in the book and I was wondering which city in our current time best fits the archetype. (Shanghai comes to mind but I&#x27;m curious to know your opinion)
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19eightyfour
Okay, tbh, I'm going to vote against all map points on the de rigeur "tech
metropolis" list.

TOKYO, HK, SHANGHAI, SHENZHEN, SEOUL, or <insert yet-another East-Asian
megacity here.>

No to all of them. Why? They're really more capitalist mega-aggregations of
labour and value...tech, either consumer-side or industry-side and any, cyber-
punk under-side to these places is really, despite their (arguably somewhat
faded) romance, these days is a side effect ( okay, maybe 1990s-era Harajuku
FRUiTS style aside ).

I'm going to vote for someplace in Africa as actually the most cyberpunk.

I've never been there, but bear with me. High mobile phone usage but lots of
shanty towns, mobile finance but still open air barter markets. And they do a
lot of destroy/recycle/resell of tech ( old computers, old tvs, old batteries,
old ships ). It's technologically advanced, but it's also still animist and
voodoo. The internet didn't just "get adopted", it got "inhaled" and started
changing everything, because things were still flexible enough to be changed.

Look maybe I'm just TOOMA, and someone who actually knows and has lived there
can set this perspective straight. But for sake of freshness of updating the
conception of "cyperpunk" I'm going against the grain of passing the crown
around the clique of Asian megacities, to someplace maybe a little more
grungy, maybe a little more deserving of the mantle of "cyberpunk".

A place where you could still imagine, perhaps, an organic "phreaking" culture
existing even today, accompanied by reverse engineering and zines, distributed
by bicycle couriers to people cool enough to be included in such secrets.

I know Africa is not glittering spires of glass and steel, but is that really
so cyberpunk in our current time? Isn't the essence of cyberpunk something a
little more bustling but raw-and-real, and digital but down-to-earth?

~~~
pdexter
Where in Africa? Africa is huge, many different cultures and types of cities.

~~~
wj
Maybe Lagos? Lots of people. Wealth. Corruption. Cyber-criminals.

Mumbai could be another dark horse.

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Cyph0n
Mumbai is not in Africa though?

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wj
Correct. Top of thread first mentioned looking at cities outside of
Asia...though I guess technically Mumbai is in Asia.

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cholantesh
Just technically?

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wj
I think of the Indian subcontinent differently than the rest of Asia.

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cholantesh
That seems kind of arbitrary...if India isn't part of Asia, much of the
culture in Indochina and the Malay islands is not Asian, either.

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konart
Norilsk

[http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/26/09/3094F19C0000057...](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/01/26/09/3094F19C00000578-3416963-image-a-28_1453800639491.jpg)

~~~
cjauvin
Is this intended to reference Half Life's City 17? I never thought of it as
"cyberpunk" in genre or ambiance though..

~~~
ilogik
Half Life 2 was heavily inspired by East-European cities (mostly Romania and
Bulgaria)

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gcmartinelli
Watching this documentary
([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY))
about Shenzhen I got a very strong cyberpunk vibe, especially the last 1/3 of
it. People at the streets fixing electronics, cheap/pirated circuit boards
being sold at the curb, etc.

~~~
_jdams
I was in Shenzhen not long ago. Good shout, but the city is actually very new.
It's very clean and the subway is near spotless, so it doesn't give off a
dark, dystopian cyberpunk kinda feel to it. Hong Kong is another good shout,
specifically Kowloon region. Many Asian cities like these have lots of old
neon signs, architecture, and technology that definitely gives off the
Cyberpunk vibe

~~~
philsnow
HK is a really good example of cyberpunk, you have both the kowloon side which
is... it's hard to say "dark" but I would say it's more "real", "intense", and
"chaotic" than the island, whereas the island itself has the shadowrun-esque
clique of the mega-rich business conglomerates.

the only issue I see with HK being the perfect example of cyberpunk is
victoria harbor keeps these two sides separate, whereas to fit the genre more
I think they should be jammed up uncomfortably next to each other.

some HK films make use of the separation of kowloon / island, by placing the
immaculate police headquarters on the island, but requiring the policeman/hero
to go to the other side to get their hands dirty / get shit done / rescue the
uncle/wife/child from the triad or whatever. when they go over to kowloon you
know shit's going to go down.

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altern8tif
Definitely Hong Kong. I just came back from a holiday there and the bus ride
from the airport to Kowloon amidst towering brutalist apartments made me feel
like I'm entering a dystopian metropolis.

~~~
pmarreck
Seconding this. Hong Kong all the way, no contest. I also went there a year or
2 ago and (besides being reminded everywhere about what inspired the styles in
the cyberpunk game Deus Ex that take place there) it just felt very cyberpunk.
Also, I LOVED IT, and sadly only spent 24 hours there (yet a VERY memorable 24
hours!). I want to go back!

~~~
sAbakumoff
Interesting..I love Hong Kong for its beautiful hiking trails where I don't
need any tech stuff at all. It really feels like back to the nature :)

~~~
pmarreck
Heh. I only saw Hong Kong nightlife... and Victoria Peak. (It was a very
productive 24 hours, I think we only slept about 4 of it LOL)

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hack_edu
Oakland, CA is a strong contender if you step back. Especially for one of a
Stephensonian-styled second-wave cyberpunk. It even plays a part in
Neuromancer.

It has its dark parts along with strong facets of common cyberpunk themes:
drastic social stratification, the social acceptance of regular drug usage,
urban decay meets technocratic renewal, a renewed definition of suburbia, and
a greater acceptance of non-binary genders.

~~~
philsnow
I like it, especially because there's a strong artist population there, and a
common theme in cyberpunk is showing what the non-techies' life is like (to
contrast it to the main characters' lives), and it's quite often artists.

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arethuza
I don't know about "cyberpunk" but every time the Dubai screensaver comes on
my Apple TV I'm pleased to find I must be living in the future:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bucV8Y_p0ME](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bucV8Y_p0ME)

Edit: All that video needs is an Elysium style flying Bugatti.

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dollaholla
There are pockets of it everywhere. There's a filthy bodega in uptown
Manhattan with expired produce on the shelves, but there's a Bitcoin ATM and
young kids hang out there and barter stolen Uber accounts for Bitcoin.

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Raphmedia
Kowloon Walled City.

It is no more but it was amazing that such a city ever existed. Read on it.

It was a city build on itself, cube shaped. Some people would spend their
entire day inside or in the middle of the city and would never see the sun.

Search it on Google Image and you will understand what I mean.

~~~
thejones
A big part of the game Shadowrun: Hong Kong is actually set in Kowloon, so
that would support your view.

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Baeocystin
Judging by Marilyn Mugot's photography, I'd say somewhere in China.

[https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2017/mar/02...](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2017/mar/02/marilyn-
mugot-neon-china-in-pictures)

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cx1000
For those not familiar with the term cyberpunk (like me), this is what
Wikipedia has to say

> Cyberpunk is a subgenre of science fiction in a future setting that tends to
> focus on society as "high tech low life" featuring advanced technological
> and scientific achievements, such as information technology and cybernetics,
> juxtaposed with a degree of breakdown or radical change in the social order.

~~~
wlesieutre
Some of the better known examples are Neuromancer, Blade Runner, and Deus Ex

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beaconstudios
the now-demolished Walled City of Kowloon was a great example of the
dereliction/"street culture" side of cyberpunk fiction, very reminiscent of
the "underbelly" image of cities like Midgar from FF7 or Hengsha in DX:HR.
Also places like Lagos with a high rate of internet technology paired with
scrap pickers and DIY recycling.

For the economic side of cyberpunk (the capitalist dystopia side), I'd say
Hong Kong. A city with a booming economy and ample opportunity for
international corporations but where the poorest citizens live in literal
cages: [http://all-that-is-interesting.com/cage-homes-hong-kong](http://all-
that-is-interesting.com/cage-homes-hong-kong)

For the neon/e-billboard aesthetic, you can't really beat Tokyo or Times
Square, NY.

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z3ugma
Dubai! The tallest building in the world, 2 of the tallest residential
buildings, fringed by uninhabitable desert. Built on credit, on the backs of
south Asian and Filipino indentured servants. An Instagram paradise for the
global elite.

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alphydan
Not a city, but close to Barcelona there is an old factory which has been
occupied and had a strong cyberpunk vibe when I visited
[https://greenhousingwelfare.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/ca-
la-f...](https://greenhousingwelfare.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/ca-la-fou-
colonia-ecoindustrial-postcapitalista/) (they self describe as an eco-
industrial post-capitalist community)

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boutcher
Definitely not Shanghai (unless you consider everyone heads-down on their
phones a symptom of cyberpunk.)

Shenzhen is a good choice though.

How about Tallinn

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Nothorized
Tallinn is a very small city. When I travel, I love to walk alone in the city
during the night, and despite a few big buildings (mainly hotels), Tallinn
does not look that much futuristic.

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arcaster
Maybe an unlikely choice, but I actually think Boston, especially chinatown in
Boston is incredibly cyberpunk. Yes, I might be biased since I went to school
in Boston and a huge fan of the Fallout series.

If I had to give a structure / area outside chinatown, the trench that the
commuter lines and orange-line run through are incredibly cyberpunk.

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konart
Something like this is almost Oshii's gits
[https://twitter.com/archillect/status/699657007599656962/pho...](https://twitter.com/archillect/status/699657007599656962/photo/1)

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ttam
Either somewhere in Asia or Berlin

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Nutomic
I don't see how Berlin could be considered Cyberpunk at all. Sure there are
some modern buildings, but most of it is at least 50 years old. And there's no
real high-tech.

~~~
ttam
I'd say Berlin definitely has a cyberpunk aura at night, with its post-
industrial setting, electronic music scene and hacker/tech/anarchist vibe

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FullMtlAlcoholc
Taipei. I was only there for a couple of days but where I stayed had that
Kowloon walled City feel to it and I went to a rave in the lush, jungle like
mountains.

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Risse
Hong Kong is a great contender

~~~
spangry
[http://www.urbancapture.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/10121...](http://www.urbancapture.com/wp-
content/uploads/2013/03/101212-2301-Day-2-Airport-Transfer-Nathan-Road-Hong-
Kong1.jpg)

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Hong-
Kong_sky...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Hong-
Kong_skyline.JPG)

The setting in the original 'Ghost in the Shell' anime was modelled on Hong
Kong.

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deathtrader666
Maybe Seoul, South Korea?

~~~
thedailymail
Seoul definitely has the cyber but is a bit light on the punk. Same goes for
Japanese cities, IMO. Old Kowloon had the right vibe. If you could put
Akihabara on Gunkanjima, that would be a new contender.

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sailfast
Bangkok, Thailand.

