
Hands-on: The $300 Kano PC, a “build-it-yourself” Chromebook competitor - tomerbd
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/07/hands-on-the-300-kano-pc-a-build-it-yourself-chromebook-competitor/
======
monkeycantype
I bought three of these as gifts we had a pretty good experience with the
hardware, but the social features integrated into the operating system
disappointed me. my 6 year old daughter was getting harassed by another user.
Everything she was saving was getting posted to a social forum, a user was
sending her messages about everything she did, there was no way to block the
messages, except to disconnect from all the online features that included all
the educational content.

The Kano teams response at the time was was: 'The design of Kano world sort of
mimics Twitter, which means that shares are open to comment by the Kano World
community. ... comment deleting is disabled on it is because there have been
cases where a lot of users were excluded and bullied by having their comments
deleted' I think this is an unsatisfactory unsophisticated response for a
product aimed at children

Perhaps this is now improved?

Kano redesigned their online features several times, and my kids lost all
their work and lost interest. But not until they had completed the learn to
use the terminal adventure, which led to us playing zork.

~~~
mkatx
Are they Children's Online Privacy Protection Act compliant? And if they are
compliant, are you saying their product is unusable if you refuse consent?

I would think their design mimicking Twitter would put them under COPPA.

~~~
monkeycantype
I have no idea if they are compliant, I was a fairly early user and I don't
know how much their software has evolved. At the time the education content
they curated was online, and you needed to be logged in to progress and unlock
content.

This content is a key part of their product, the whole point of the Kano is
that it is a carefully prepared experience from the moment you hold the box,
until you're writing bash scripts.

The interface would prompt you to post your work, and the way that choice was
integrated, even if it wasn't mandatory, it seemed as if was the only way to
save your work.

Once it was posted it was publicly available, and anyone with a Kano login
could comment. If my daughter was logged in using the Kano she would be
notified of the message. There did not seem to be any way to set any privacy
controls, given that I asked Kano specifically about this I'm sure they would
have let me know.

I confess I have a low tolerance for hype, and as a result my communication
with the Kano team was a little bumpy. I was genuinely disappointed with
aspects of their product. I think a more thoughtful self critical culture
would have addressed what I believe were glaring problems. Overall I
appreciate what they do and I bought three.

------
whoopdedo
Why does Ars insist that this is a Chromebook competitor? I think it shows a
blindspot and cultural gap that they appear to be unaware that low-end PCs
exist. At Walmart.com right now I can filter for Windows laptops between
$200-$399 and get models such as the Lenovo ideapad S145 with a i3-1005G1, or
ASUS VivoBook with Ryzen 3 3200U, or the closest competitor to Kano, a HP
Stream with the same Celeron and eMMC storage for only $219. They even
benchmarked against a Dell 15-3573 but borrowed the performance measurements
from Geekbench instead of running the test themselves.

~~~
alexnklein
Think it's a shame that such a privacy-last and openness-last machine as the
Chromebook is the "standard" for kids and classrooms.

Windows isn't perfect, but it has the broadest ecosystem of applications in
the world, and is far more manipulable than Chrome or iOS. Far more.

~~~
heresie-dabord
> Think it's a shame that [...] the Chromebook is the "standard" for kids and
> classrooms.

Chromebooks are cheap to buy and maintain, that's why they are in classrooms.

Whatever the $OS, we don't #teach# privacy. In fact, privacy and critical
thinking are the subjects that we teach #worse# than math.

Although Chromebooks are GOOGware, you can make them better by switching to
dev mode and installing SeaBIOS
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaBIOS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SeaBIOS)).
I boot Debian Linux on a CB with premium hardware. Cheapest "ultrabook" that
you get, and with Firefox DoH and ESNI, you bleed less into the surveillance
system.

------
mrjin
I would stay away from Kano as far as I can. Bought a Kano Pixel kit earlier
which does not go with the description on official web site. Did some research
my self, and it turned out I was not alone, obviously Kano changed the design
after crowd-funding finished but with out changing the description. Obvious
misleading, but that was not the end of the story. A couple of days later, I
could not tell exactly but definitely less than 1 week, the battery slot came
off the board. Whaaaaat? I decided to take a closer look at the board and I
was amazed to find out: 1. The battery contacts and the battery slot case were
two different component, and the battery slot case was glue to the board using
some crappy glue which came off automatically. 2. The potentiometer which was
supposed to be soldered on the board was standing on its feet and those anchor
points meant to be soldered on the board were dangling there as they need it
to be vertically mounted to the board. That's more than enough to say that
Pixel kit was my very first and last Kano product. It simply too much cutting
corners stuff.

~~~
alexnklein
I apologize on behalf of the company for this.

It sounds like you received a version that was manufactured by a bad supplier,
one we've moved away from.

Let me know if we can offer you something new and fresh to make up for the
fumble here. Happy to give you anything from our current line. You will be
impressed and overjoyed.

Alex Klein, Cofounder & CEO, Kano

------
oakesm9
Kano originally was an education kit build around a Raspberry Pi [1].

I was a backer of that and the hardware and instruction book you received was
great. I played with it for a bit, but I ended up gifting it to a friend who
had two young kids. His daughter ended up using it to create same games in
Scratch.

Interesting to see that they've moved onto Windows instead now. I wonder if
it's so parents are more familiar and able to help with projects on it?

[1] [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-
comput...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alexklein/kano-a-computer-
anyone-can-make)

~~~
DoingIsLearning
> Interesting to see that they've moved onto Windows instead now. I wonder if
> it's so parents are more familiar and able to help with projects on it?

That is a possible reason, but the Kano PC kit also seems to be sold from the
Microsoft store directly. So it is not unlikely that they made an agreement to
sell with windows 10.

It probably is important for MS that Windows has some degree of penetration in
this 'edutainment' sector (early user adoption etc.).

~~~
zrobotics
I found it really surprising that, aside from color and what is printed on the
key caps, the keyboard appears identical to the keyboard on my surface pro.
Which would explain why the article raved about how impressive the keyboard
connector is, I have been extremely impressed with mine and have had zero
issues with it. My guess is they are sourcing the keyboard from the same
supplier as Microsoft, which isn't a bad thing.

However, the extremely thin typecover doesn't feel that out of place on the
surface, but it looks kind of strange attached to this very chunky Kano
computer.

------
alexnklein
I'm Alex, the company's founder and CEO.

Here's us talking about the product and the Microsoft partnership on TV:
[https://www.instagram.com/stories/alexnklein/235848341696754...](https://www.instagram.com/stories/alexnklein/2358483416967548013/)

You can reach out to me directly at alex at kano dot me

Alex

~~~
rmrfstar
What's the deal with the firmware? Will it run coreboot without a hassle?

------
gambiting
This is what I've been saying about modular phones for years - "oh if only
phones were modular people wouldn't have to buy a brand new one ever 2 years"
\- yes, maybe, but the phone would be 3x as heavy, to facilitate a
functionality that realistically would be used once or twice. And people
increasingly upgrade phones not because the old ones are too slow or lacking
memory but because...they just want something new.

~~~
throwaway744678
Google had an interesting project (Ara, IIRC) for a modular phone. But indeed,
no-one solved the issue of the weight and thickness. Even if these were
solved, the cost would probably be another issue.

~~~
whywhywhywhy
Ara was a really cool project, from what I've read about it by the end the
only way to feasibly do it ended up being the CPU/Memory/Modem and even the
storage ended up just being on a single unit.

Still love the Tardigrade module idea though, even if it's completely absurd.

[http://midnightcommercial.com/project/tardigrade-
biome/](http://midnightcommercial.com/project/tardigrade-biome/)

Really wish more companies were working towards sustainable tech ideas,
thinking about the pile of dead AirPods the average Apple customer will leave
behind during their life fills me with anxiety.

------
teleforce
Another similar concept is by CrowPi initiative but it is based on ARM not
Intel [1].

Their second version CrowPi 2 allows the use of any Raspberry Pi in a more
laptop like hardware shell with 11.6" display. They also offering many sensors
for additional IoT and hardware interfacing exercises. Currently they are on
Kickstarter and more than 1600% funded [2][3].

[1][http://linuxgizmos.com/hackable-crowpi2-steam-education-
lapt...](http://linuxgizmos.com/hackable-crowpi2-steam-education-laptop-
available-with-8gb-raspberry-pi/)
[2][https://www.elecrow.com/](https://www.elecrow.com/)
[3][https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elecrow/crowpi2-steam-e...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/elecrow/crowpi2-steam-
education-platformand-raspberry-pi-laptop/posts)

------
pbhjpbhj
>Although the process started out very fast indeed, a couple of minutes in,
the disk's write performance fell off a cliff, which you can see in the
radically decreased performance graph above. //

AIUI slow deletion is an MS Windows thing.

A partial solution is offered here,
[https://superuser.com/questions/76906/deleting-large-
amount-...](https://superuser.com/questions/76906/deleting-large-amount-of-
files-in-windows-is-slow) \-- command line deletion of files with output to
'nul' followed by pruning of directory trees is reportedly 3x faster.

------
intpx
As a former k-12 edtech practitioner-- these are terrible as a CB replacement.
There are 6 reasons the CB has market dominance 1\. dirt cheap 2\. cattle not
pets 3\. manageable 4\. google apps integration 5\. available in pretty rugged
form factors 6\. pretty boring, not an attractive nuisance for poking and
prodding

these things run windows, which in and of itself gives substantially more
nooks and crannies to poke at. the hardware is all modular and accessible and
losable

from a technology education perspective, these look amazing. but the majority
of technology in education is and should be about as interesting as a pencil.

------
tlear
I have given the Raspberry Pi versions to my niece and nephew. They like it.
Social features are mostly annoying but actual system and messing around in
mine craft was a blast.

I hope they keep doing stuff with P and Linux, so once my kids are older I
will get them one

------
jshaqaw
We got a Kano touchscreen Pi model last holiday season. It lasted maybe 3-4
months before totally falling apart and the power system dying. I wanted to
like this company and their vision so I hope they have fixed the build
quality.

------
ajb
I work for kano, feel free to ask questions...

~~~
z_open
Can I install Linux?

~~~
ajb
Unofficially - it appears to work, at least on my sample. Didn't install on
the disk as I can't risk bricking it right now, but I can boot Ubuntu 20.04
from a USB stick, connect to wifi, and view threejs.org examples. Can't make
any claims as to the timeline on official support.

------
illuminated
Is the hardware linux compatible?

~~~
ajb
See
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23915085](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23915085)

------
saagarjha
Cute. Might be a good novelty thing you’d give a child, maybe with Linux
installed.

~~~
ajb
Indeed, our main markets are parents and teachers.

------
slezyr
So much empty space on the pcb/closure, you can fit in few more ARM boards.

~~~
alexnklein
Looking at upgrades right now - lots of chip suppliers courting us.

Alex Klein, Cofounder & CEO

------
diminish
Wish i could install linux.

------
trekrich
This is great for kids to learn about technology, one you have windows on it.
They could then install scratch
[https://scratch.mit.edu/about](https://scratch.mit.edu/about) then move onto
Python. Linux would be a good alternative OS to go on it as well.

~~~
alexnklein
Check out the real reactions of kids opening it and using it, versus standard
HP/Dell/Lenovo ...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIXPEPu3Y6Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIXPEPu3Y6Y)

~~~
trekrich
one of the comments is brutal if you are HP. Didnt Grandad have one of these?
All the money that HP spends on marketing and they are the grandads laptop!

