
Ask HN: How to get industry insights and meet people outside your bubble? - nielsole
Ask HN: How to get industry insights? &#x2F; Meet people outside your bubble?<p>I am very interested in the inner structure and dynamics of industries. In the last years I got to know a few industries through old friends and school buddies. Unfortunately the circle of my peers seems to narrow in on computer science from year to year and it becomes more rare to get such insights.<p>The industries can be as trivial as german christmas markets. For example:
Are the stands organized business or individuals?
How much revenue do you expect on a weekday?
How much value is captured by the organizer of entire markets (probably the district&#x2F;city?)?
How much money is spent on marketing&#x2F;advertisement?<p>Ultimately I am also looking for startup ideas:
Where in the value chain are inefficiencies? For what reason are they there? (precursor to Peter Thiels famous &quot;thing you know, that no one else knows&#x2F;believes&quot;)<p>The answers to some of these questions are not publicly available. I spent the day today in the library and found that information in books on these topics is often outdated or nonexistent.
This might be due to this type of information often being considered a company secret (e.g. revenue per day) or the data is never collected because of its perceived triviality (business size of christmas stands)<p>How do you approach these questions?<p>Ultimately this is a question on networking. How do you meet people from different industries outside of your cirlce?
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aaavl2821
If you live in the Bay Area, hang out around Union Square in SF this week and
strike up conversations with the people in suits hanging around in the hotel
lobbies / coffee shops / bars. This week is the JP Morgan healthcare
conference, the biggest healthcare investor conference in the world (with a
strong emphasis on biopharma), and a great chance to learn more about
biopharma

I personally believe that biopharma is the most interesting sector for
entrepreneurs right now, and am currently writing a blog post to explain why
(hope to publish it tonight or tomorrow). If interested, I can link it here
once I'm finished.

One data point of interest: in the first four days of this year, biopharma
startups raised a total of $1B (compare this to the $1.9B raised by AR/VR
startups in all of 2016). this was across 16 companies. $673M of this was
Series A rounds (in 9 companies)

~~~
AlexAmee
I'm also interested, could you please share the link to your site?

~~~
aaavl2821
Link is here: [http://newbio.tech/blog.html](http://newbio.tech/blog.html)

Also just submitted to HN

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nicw
I’ve done this for several industries now:

Get out of the library and start talking to people in that field. It will take
some time and have some slow starts, but the only way you learn about an
industries inefficiencies and its opportunities is by hitting the pavement.

You’ll need some explanation “story” to help people understand your
intentions. I am upfront and say I am interested in their space personally,
and I’m looking for business opportunities - but I Don’t Know What I Don’t
Know, and therefore I’m in listening mode.

With your example: Go to the stall owners, and ask if you can talk when
they’re not busy. Ask little, listen a lot. Stand there for hours and observe
the different stalls. Take notes.

Map out the different players, and ask to talk to them. Eventually you’ll get
connected to events that they attend, and they’ll also pass you along to their
peers. Ask what conferences they attend and so on.

~~~
nielsole
What is your experience, are people willing to talk for extended time with
strangers about their businesses? They will definitely know ballpark numbers
about everything, that they might be willing to share.

~~~
nicw
Yes, most people are definitely willing to talk, IF you show that you value
their time, and give them some context about why you're asking.

Show that you value their time by setting the space upfront, and when you're
10 minutes away, tell them "We have 10 minutes left, and I want to respect
your time...". They'll decide to keep rambling or not.

Re: numbers, you can also preface with "I'm not looking to know anything
confidential, but since I don't know your industry, as we talk, it would be
great to have numbers with some context.

Here is my verbatim intro for learning more about cities+construction:

"Hi! I'm a technologist who left the tech world, and I'm focusing on how I can
help cities. Particularly helping cities make better decisions with Data.

To prevent building something that doesn't help cities, I'm listening to key
people in your space and understanding the problems they face. I'd really like
to get an understanding of your role and the issues you face, particularly
around the permitting process, and code compliance.

The conversation is less than an hour, and I can meet you in person, or over
the phone. The questions are lightweight, no quizzes here. :)"

\- nic

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lordnacho
Hang around with the parents of your child's classmates. You always run into
them, and they live near you. Smalltalk naturally tends towards what everyone
does for a living.

~~~
anovikov
That only works if your kid is in a very expensive private school, for the 1%
right? Most common people have no industry insights, all they know is size of
their paycheck and how to avoid getting fired.

~~~
yorwba
How many "common people" do you know? In my experience, many love to complain
about all the little inefficiencies at their jobs, company policies that don't
make sense in the field but that are officially mandated anyways, waste where
the same work has to be done multiple times, departments that are not allowed
to directly talk to each other, and so on. Then there is the general awareness
of things in their industry (like the size of a German Christmas market
business).

Of course this knowledge is not hard to get. You just need to do their job 8
hours a day for half a year or so ... or you could have a quick chat where
they get to vent about their job and you learn something new. (You don't even
need to have kids for that to work.)

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pressentials
Government's statistics offices - can provide lots of data. Chambers of
commerce as well, obvious choice would be trend forecasting companies - though
they will charge.

Two of the UK's biggest small business communities are joining forces to
create the first data-led business support platform that will give small
British firms access to affordable external expertise instantly. - more on the
subject here -> [https://www.enterprisenation.com/blog/posts/icaew-and-
enterp...](https://www.enterprisenation.com/blog/posts/icaew-and-enterprise-
nation-to-build-uk-s-first-data-led-business-platform)

To individually check companies revenues per year you can access all the data
for the UK companies via
[https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/](https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/)
(It's free, you just need to know the name of the company or the company
director's name.

Hope it helps.

K

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aaavl2821
if your industry of interest is technical, one way I've found to get good
insights and connections is to write the authors of papers you find
interesting and ask to learn more. showing appreciation and respect for their
work, as well as letting your genuine interest show through, helps, as does
starting a dialogue by providing some info that might be of interest to the
author. influential researchers are often networking "hubs" and can often
connect you with all sorts of other people in the industry

on the other side of the industry spectrum, my girlfriend made candles as a
hobby for a time, and we did market research by walking into random stores and
talking to the managers. Was a fun way to spend an afternoon. Interestingly,
we found that smoke shop owners were among the most interested customers

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matt_the_bass
If you have a specific industry in mind, attend a trade show or conference
about that industry. For you Christmas booth example, you could attend one of
the many “gift shop” trade shows.

~~~
nielsole
This sounds like a good idea. What I see as a difficulty is that it might be
harder to strike up a conversation or make lasting connections when you are
not the normal visitor. "Hi I am here because I am curious" is probably quite
unexpected. Would you pose as a potential customer buying goods, or be direct
in your curiosity?

~~~
nicw
Be upfront about your curiosity, otherwise it falls apart pretty quickly if
you have a deeper conversation :) What you want to focus on is learning about
the space and the players, not pitching them a solution.

I tell people that I am interested in the space, and am in listening mode —>
and what do they do? Tell me more....etc etc

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indescions_2018
First, find a space experiencing accelerating growth. 3D Bioprinting is a
perfect example with CAGR of 25%+. It's an earthquake. A tectonic shakeup in
the way healthcare is provided. And there will be gargantuan pain points.

Second, compile a master list of all major players. Any publicly available
email contacts, social media, phone. Span journalists, researchers,
executives. The sector is defined by them.

Third, begin cold emailing. But it must be genuinely personal. And, the
absolute key, you must bring value. Don't merely take from someone else's
time, hard effort and expertise.

Providing value, while gaining from their sector wisdom, is a form of barter.
You must have your own skill set to bring to the table.

For example, there is demand right now for WebGL / Unity3D / VR talent. Next
gen user experiences and interfaces. Have a demo ready to show. It doesn't
even have to be mind-blowing. Just enough to start the conversation.

Best of luck!

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boysabr3
I had a similar goal few years ago and decided to move countries and take up a
job in a new industry.

It didn't quite work out for me in that industry at the end but I certainly
did meet people outside by bubble + learn about how the industry works in a
fairly detailed manner.

This is not the easiest thing to do, but I would highly recommend it if you
have the chance!

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pryelluw
I use social media. Specifically Twitter. I'm doing a talk about this very
same thing later this month. If you ping me on Twitter or email I'll let you
know when it gets published.

~~~
pryelluw
I'm getting a lot of emails from people interested in the talk and can't
possibly remember to let everyone know when it comes out. Please follow me on
Twitter and stay posted there. Take the opportunity to create an account there
if you don't have one.

Thank you for the support :-)

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wenc
To get true industry insights, networking from outside the industry is often
insufficient and can potentially lead you down a path of failure and infant
mortality.

Yes, by networking you can get people to tell you things, but talk is cheap.
People will tell you anything when they have no skin in the game, and you will
be tempted to execute one someone's emotional rambles (or multiple persons'
correlated rambles, which is even more convincing but no more correct) which
they have not thought through all the way. If you're going to build a
business, you need higher quality information than that.

Also without the right context in the target industry (or a similar industry),
you won't really grasp the underlying nature of the inefficiencies (often a
multifaceted quantity), which means there's a high probability you will falter
in your execution. You're going be tempted to solve problems that people claim
they have, but if you've ever worked in consulting, you will know that the key
is not to solve the problem people SAY THEY HAVE, but the problem THEY
ACTUALLY HAVE, which is often a different thing. This is consulting 101, and
holds true for pretty much any industry.

In order to understand the real problem, you need to be in a position where
you have to have had experienced the pain points somewhat first hand.

(The following applies to the more complex industries that I'm familiar with;
the Christmas market industry is not as complex and not all of this may be
applicable)

1) The most effective way, but not an easy way, is to work in your industry of
interest for a year or two in a position that will expose you to data and
people in the field. Typically this means data analyst or internal consultant.
This way you will get an insider's view and gain street cred (do not
underestimate how important this street cred is) if you should decide to build
a product to sell to that industry.

[Too often I am approached by enterprise sales people who don't have an
appreciation for my industry and try to sell me software to solve for problems
they think I have but don't (e.g. anomaly detection? IoT? in my industry,
we've been doing that for the past 3 decades under different guises).]

2) If you don't have that luxury, you can work for a consulting company that
consults for the industry of interest. That way you will get a cross-
organizational view of problems that are common in said industry. This also
gains you some street cred, but not as much as (1).

3) The other option, also hard, is to either hire someone from the target
industry or have someone who has a track record in said industry mentor you
over a period of time. You need that repeated exposure to truly grasp the
context. Elon Musk's companies, if I read his biography correctly, tend to
take this approach.

If possible, make sure this person has skin in the game in your eventual
organization, so this way their goals are aligned with yours. If these
conditions apply, then you can apply first-principles thinking, but not
before. Quality of information (experience) is paramount. I hate cliches, but
be skeptical. Trust but verify.

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ratherbefuddled
You know what all those other industries have in common? They all use IT to
one degree or another. Go work in one.

~~~
nielsole
I already do that, but if you are in regular employment it vastly limits the
number of industries you get in contact with to < 1 / year.

~~~
ratherbefuddled
If you're looking for the level of insight that will enable you to arrive at a
viable startup idea, you need quality not quantity. Decide on an industry you
think will grow fast over the next decade and go learn it in depth. Flitting
through networking events and browsing social media is how you arrive at
failed startup ideas not viable ones.

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qrbLPHiKpiux
Mainman, UPS and Fedex. Are you delivering much of X?

