
Netflix Makes a Statement in India with “Sacred Games” - ss2003
https://www.economist.com/prospero/2018/07/19/netflix-makes-a-statement-in-india-with-sacred-games
======
r_singh
I'm from Btown. With its latest Indian content, Netflix has really made a
statement about what it can do with original content made for this market.
Consciously working with the best in Bollywood and giving them creative
freedom that the internet provides (traditionally censor board in India is
conservative and absurd).

Amazon Prime too has made strides in acquiring and producing content for the
Indian market. But both have clearly taken a different stance in doing so.
Amazon is quick to acquire bollywood movies for Prime and from Netflix's
latest content, it appears that they have potential to replace bollywood
bangers.

~~~
asenna
I hate consuming movies on Amazon Prime Video in India. Their self-censorship
is worse than the Censor board.

Just one of my recent experiences - A well made movie "Shahid" \- There's a
scene where the two guys are in jail having a chat. An entire line just gets
censored and Shahid's shocked reaction means the scene was important.

I then found the movie on Netflix. The line they censored was - "This country
doesn't give a shit about it's minority". Wtf?! Are we that insecure that we
need to Censor stuff like that.

That's just one example, it's almost impossible to watch Shahid and other
similar movies on Amazon. Which is weird because they are on the Internet,
they don't have a Censor body governing their content!

~~~
nindalf
Other examples of Amazon self-censoring despite the govt saying they are not
considering censoring online content.

* Pixelated nudity in shows like Californication and The Man In The High Castle and films like Watchmen and The Godfather

* The Grand Tour had an episode which involved animal carcasses. All of it was removed.

My $0.02 on this difference between Amazon and Netflix. This is Netflix's
primary business, while Video is an afterthought for Amazon compared to the
retail business. A boycott of their retail business would be catastrophic,
whereas a few people canceling their subscription over self-censorship is a
non-issue.

Amazon can also potentially be shaken down for protection money. It would work
like this. "Hi, we're from this political party and we're considering making
these videos a major issue. Meanwhile, would you consider making a donation to
our election campaign?"

~~~
blocked_again
Let me get this straight. It's not catastrophic for Netflix if people boycott
them for showing nudity but it's catastrophic for Amazon if people stopped
watchiny Amazon prime video?

~~~
testvox
No he is saying that Amazon doesn't really care much about their video
business and therefore are fine with decreasing it's competitiveness via
censorship if it decreases the risk of boycotts on is primary businesses.

Whereas if Netflix becomes less competitive in it's video business they lose
everything. So taking risks by not censoring can make more sense.

------
wheresvic1
Most bollywood fare needs to cater to the masses (a large chunk of whom are
semi-literate) in order to make money. Netflix's audience is by nature
literate and middle-class with a decent internet connection at home. They can
happily switch between Hindi, English and don't mind reading subtitles for
Marathi if they don't already speak it.

Kudos to them for recognizing this market at the very least and attempting a
show like this. I binged watched the show in 3 days and while it was
interesting and wildy different from normal bollywood fare, I did not find it
ultra amazing or anything compared to, say AGOT for example.

~~~
nonamechicken
I had the same feeling. Nothing awesome about the show. One thing I have begun
to dislike with Netflix in general is most of their shows are extreme. Either
too violent and dark or way too silly. I cannot watch them just for the sake
of time pass or enjoyment without having negative emotions that sometimes
lasts for days. Nowadays, even with a Netflix account, 99% of my TV is
YouTube. Still I decided to watch Sacred Games since its based on India.
Violence and sex on it were not something we would see in an Indian TV show,
but overall entertainment value was lacking. The RAW officers were too simple.
I find it hard to believe that this is how they operate. Also, its strange
that some Indians think showing sex scenes as progressive. I don't want to see
sex in regular movie. If I want to watch sex, I will go and watch porn. If one
wants to see violence and gore, there are plenty of other websites. Please
don't bring it to the masses in the name of progressiveness. Before anybody
labels me as Taliban, I fully support public nudity. But sex scenes in these
shows and movies are not real. Nudity in movies is a cheap way to get the
audience. Make a mediocre show, sprinkle some sex scenes and violence here and
there, profit.

~~~
ss2003
You hit the nail on the head about Netflix. There is so much low quality
content on it that it makes me eye everything they offer skeptically. There
are so many great movies out there, why are none of them available on Netflix
or Prime?

------
forapurpose
I've watched a couple modern Indian films recently, and the characters switch
effortlessly between English and Hindi, sometimes in mid-sentence. More than
once I even saw one character ask a question in Hindi and the other quote them
in English: for example, (in Hindi:) 'Aren't I the smartest guy in the
world?'; (in English:) 'No, you aren't "the smartest guy in the world".'.

I've been wondering: What is the subtext, what are the implications, of using
English or of switching languages? There must be some and I'm missing the
subtleties.

EDIT: clarification

~~~
puranjay
Very common among bilingual speakers.

It's called "code switching"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-
switching](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching)

It's hilarious watching my wife's aunts talk. They grew up in Hyderabad in a
Sindhi household but emigrated to UK. They effortlessly switch between Telugu,
Hindi, Sindhi, and English in the same conversation.

~~~
mcny
The characters in Anna Karenina speak French in some parts (at least in my
English copy of the book). I don't know why but it clearly meant something for
that conversation to be in French. It's there something the story is trying to
say when they switch between Hindi and English on that show?

~~~
Mediterraneo10
For the Russian aristocracy in the 18th and 19th centuries, French was often
their everyday language. Russian was only used to communicate with servants.
The sprinkling of French phrases through Tolstoy is meant to evoke this
aristocratic world, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the phrases which Tolstoy
sets in French are somehow more important than the dialogue he presets in
Russian.

~~~
drdaeman
AFAIK, in 19th century, esp. after the Napoleonic invasion of Russia it wasn't
as hardcore as that. Aristocracy spoke a fair amount of Russian among
themselves, but still mixed in a lot of French (and IIRC some accidental
Latin).

I could be wrong though.

------
shaan7
Unfortunately I don't think it will last. Indian government + its agencies are
very conservative and I'm sure they will be making attempts at censoring
Netflix in India.

~~~
psergeant
I bet the spending power of non-India Indians in the rest of the world is
huge.

~~~
r_singh
"non-India Indians" are called NRIs (non-resident Indians).

And you're right, in the list of ethnic groups in USA by household income,
Indian Americans rank number 1 _.

_[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_U...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income)

~~~
psergeant
Does NRI apply to people without Indian citizenship?

~~~
r_singh
Nope, strictly speaking NRI is a tax status of people who are Indian citizens
but do not reside in India.

Foreign citizens who descent from Indian origin are called PIO i.e. person of
Indian origin

~~~
njpatel
In banking/government terms, yes, but in general terms NRI is used much wider
to describe a person of Indian origin. At least in West India.

~~~
psergeant
Does “Desi” work in this case? Is it offensive for a white guy to say?

~~~
r_singh
It might be interesting to know that the Sanskrit word "desi" itself just
means country

~~~
psergeant
Many words starting with n and with gs in them are just color descriptions.
Shortened versions of Japanese and Pakistani are offensive in some countries
but not others. The Thai word for Indian is “visitor” as in “not from here,
will go home soon”. Plenty of words with innocuous meanings pick up offensive
meanings.

------
gordon_freeman
Scared Games is awesome. There's also another original documentary series
Netflix recently launched which is 'Wild Wild Country' and its based on cult
Indian figure Osho and the time he spent in Oregon. It's worth watching too.

~~~
Jenya_
I watched recently similar documentary on youtube -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwx9nqknu-c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwx9nqknu-c)

------
hannofcart
It's not just 'Sacred Games'. Other Netflix originals like 'Lust Stories' are
breaking the Bollywood mould and telling stories that are too taboo for
Bollywood. Great job, Netflix!

~~~
iKSv2
To be honest, its less about being a Taboo (see films like Chameli, Chandni
Bar, Fashion) have tried telling taboo stories. Its the censor board which is
so inconsistent that it doesn't even make sense. This platform helps them
bypass it and its working, and its also being accepted by the viewers . Win-
Win-Win

~~~
dmix
Maybe I'm biased coming from (North) American culture but I'm always amazed at
the level of government intervention Indians tolerate. Every time I read about
the regulatory landscape there it blows my mind (ie, hearing how a truck
delivering something across the country needs to stop 8 times in every county
they pass to make sure they have proper paperwork). It's always terribly
excessive and almost illogical by design (arbitrary laws to give abitrary
power to the individuals impementing it).

~~~
repsilat
I think they're mostly being careful. In polite, educated society Netflix's
content isn't going to cause any problems, but in some places there is a real
danger to public order from broadcast media.

"Fake news" has resulted in the deaths of dozens of people in India this
year[1]. I think reasonable people should value free and uncensored media, but
I also think reasonable people can disagree on the degree to which that
freedom should be valued relative to public safety. It's certainly ugly to
think "only people who can afford Netflix can be trusted to watch
controversial content and not kill each other" though.

1: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
india-44897714](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-44897714)

~~~
dmix
My response is the potential for abuse and the natural growth in scale and
scope of oversight negates the utility of such control of media. I'd bet a
thousand dollars for every violent act prevented through censure there were
100 arbitrary, social, or overly careful controls that had little real benefit
to society.

If America took this advice they'd have banned goth music and violent video
games in a 'think of the children' antiviolence bullshit narrative.

Not to mention the idea you can regulate your way out of 'fake news' (even
ignoring the massive cost to culture, political freedom, and spread of
knowledge) is ridiculous and naive.

------
naruvimama
In a world where state backed religions and religion backed states exists.
Where the funds and man power set aside for religious expansion in the
organised religions is more than the defence budgets of many countries.
Censorship and reflection of bias is important.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5eE3SENo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5eE3SENo0)

Takes a good look at bias and dishonesty in Bollywood. Netflix can also fall
victim to "moles" just like the BBC.

~~~
TheArcane
Did you just try to make an argument for why censorship is important? Because
don't see anything.

It's amazing how the conservative Hindu majority of India has been convinced
that they're in danger of unseen forces.

~~~
pkphilip
Precisely. It is not just that. The Hindu right wing have been sold narrative
- a version of history where they are told that they are denied their "right"
place in history - at the very top of all world cultures, only because of the
pesky minorities. So they should subjugate the minorities and cast them to the
fringes so that the "great" Hindu nation can rise again.

~~~
codecrusade
This comment just reeks of bias. How come the admins dont boot such hate
spreaders from HN

------
SuperNinKenDo
I have to say, this article's writing did a good job of getting me interested
in the material.

------
urmish
Most of the series has unforced graphic scenes and vulgarity. It's just gangs
of wassrypur set in Mumbai with more vulgarity because it was produced for
Netflix.

------
codecrusade
The series is gross, vulgar and has unwanted scenes of violence. Depictions of
India far from reality.Avoidable.

------
actuator
Never thought I would see stuff like this on HN.
[https://imgur.com/a/BlfhrPv](https://imgur.com/a/BlfhrPv)

~~~
r_singh
I agree with you, I was surprised to see this on the front page as well. I
guess it's because this is Netflix's [being a California tech company] first
real effort to enter the Indian market. Hence it implies the consequences this
launch could have on its position [and Prime's too] in the Indian market as it
establishes itself in a country with a [relatively] mature entertainment /
cinema industry.

Now that it's here, it's good for you to have commented here expressing your
concern.

However, the comments you've linked surprise me even more as they represent
pure hate. I'm curious to know which forum they are from, anyone?

~~~
actuator
Btw I was referring to the vitriolic comments.

They are from HN only. Were visible till I logged in. I guess mods removed it
and the logged out views are cached

~~~
r_singh
Thanks for clarifying; it wasn't clear to me what you were referring to.

