
Is Chronic Anxiety a Learning Disorder? - laurex
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/is-chronic-anxiety-a-learning-disorder/
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iliketosleep
Fascinating that Behrens reward game showed that humans were able to mentally
model volatility at the level of an "ideal learner". But in the variation of
the game where there was punishment instead of reward, non-anxious people
still performed as "ideal learners" whereas anxious people's predictions
became totally out of whack. In other words, the overly anxious mind
temporarily lost its capacity to correctly formulate heuristics, which can
lead to all kinds of mental chaos.

Personally, I remember that I was once in a job interview where I had to code
on a whiteboard. I was so overwhelmed with anxiety that I was temporary
incapable of completing simple coding tasks. In the face of extreme anxiety, I
literally become stupid.

~~~
hnarn
>In the face of extreme anxiety, I literally become stupid.

You don't need to experience "extreme anxiety", or even have a diagnosis, to
experience this effect. Most people that are just learning how to drive a car
will at some point experience how acute stress causes you to fail even the
most basic tasks, things you would never predict that you would fail doing
before you actually do. When I was learning how to drive, I repeatedly forgot
checking the rear view mirror before switching lanes (even though I knew this
was extremely important), because I was so focused on manual gear shifting. I
would switch to the wrong gear or forget turning the turn indicator off,
because my stressed mind would filter out the noise of the indicator blinking.

Some even believe that the "experience of driving" in itself is detrimental,
and that "each exposure elicits an acute stress response, and that repeated
exposures may act as a chronic stressor".[1]

[1]:
[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185517)

~~~
slfnflctd
> each exposure elicits an acute stress response

I experienced this quite viscerally in my last job, where I had roughly a 40
minute commute in heavy traffic each way. On the surface, it sounds like
nothing, but I feared for my safety every time and it worsened with each
passing month.

There were several reasons I left the job, but this was at least 30% of it and
I can tell you it significantly improved my mental health. For a while I had
anxiety every time I had to drive, and it started well before I ever got in
the car. A couple years later, I was able to handle several very long road
trips and even did a stint as a rideshare driver with almost no issues-- the
anxiety is pretty much gone now, it was nearly all due to that commute.

~~~
maxerickson
I worry that a lot of mental health issues are essentially situational and
that we (as a society) put all sorts of barricades in place that make it
difficult for people to shift their overall situations (the thing that will
likely most benefit them).

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merlan
Sounds like learning to play poker could be a cure.

There's this TED talk by a "poker champion" Liv Boeree where she says that
calculating probabilities is the main thing that she learned in poker and
applies in everyday life. I also saw an article on that, with many poker
players answering the question what they learned from the game, and the
ability to estimate probabilities comes up every single time.

A quote from Liv: "So now I also try to speak in numbers as well. So if
someone asks me, "Hey, Liv, do you think you're going to come along to that
thing tonight?" instead of just saying to them, "Yeah, probably," I actually
give them my best estimate -- say, 60 percent. Because -- I know that sounds a
little odd -- but the thing is, I ran a poll on Twitter of what people
understand the word "probably" to mean, and this was the spread of answers.
Enormous! So apparently, it's absolutely useless at actually conveying any
real information."

Liv Boeree' TED talk:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/liv_boeree_3_lessons_on_decision_m...](https://www.ted.com/talks/liv_boeree_3_lessons_on_decision_making_from_a_poker_champion/)

~~~
myle
I have observed that playing chess competitively helped me a lot with my
anxiety. A game of chess is self contained, you can analyze afterwards what
went wrong, the implications are limited and you learn that focusing on the
task and setting aside your worries helps improve your game. Moreover, that
happens in a protected environment, with well defined rules and no
interruptions, which facilitates the learning process.

~~~
technobabble
Anecdotally I had something different. As a kid I was always a sore loser, and
sulked after every loss in the game. In retrospect I'm not sure why I took
winning so seriously.

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adzm
Journal article here: Anxious individuals have difficulty learning the causal
statistics of aversive environments @
[http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nn.3961](http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nn.3961)

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noetic_techy
For me it was magnesium deficiency.

~~~
tarellel
Same here, I have had severe anxiety and depression for quite some time. I was
prescribed a few SSRI's bet, but my doctor was a dick and pretty much state I
need to just get out and do more, get my mind off shit.

So on trying to improve my mental health I started taking nootropics. Some of
them people SWARE BY, yet I never experienced any noticeable effect. But by
chance I ordered a batch of Magnesium L-Threonate and it was absolutely
exhilarating. I can honestly say I've been dosing for about 6 months now and
it's completely turned my around. I don't suggest anyone experiment with
supplements and/or medications without professional assistance. Because this
was more like one of those one shot wonders, where you just chance it till you
find whatever works.

~~~
gnulinux
Magnesium annihilated my anxiety too. I had severe anxiety and insomnia. I
used magnesium supplement for about 6 months. All gone, now I have no mental
problems and stopped using magnesium supplements. Just eating healthy, and it
seems fine enough. Not sure how I developed that serious magnesium deficiency
for years...

~~~
mtgx
I suggest you use Cronometer.com for a few weeks or days and see if you
actually reach the RDA of 400mg a day. My guess is you don't from food alone
unless you eat a lot of pumpkin seeds and nuts that are magnesium rich every
single day. Most people are deficient in magnesium.

~~~
touristtam
Interesting website, thanks for sharing.

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marsrover
I haven’t read the article but as someone who has suffered from generalized
anxiety (primarily manifested through hypochondria) for a vast portion of my
life, I can conclude most definitely yes.

It’s hard to pay attention when your mind is telling you that you need to go
to the hospital for some random reason at all times.

For the most part I’ve learned to keep it in check. But it took 30 years so it
greatly affected my learning years, I believe. I also always make sure to
carry around Xanax just in case.

~~~
agumonkey
Is meditation (the simple notion) effective for you ?

~~~
marsrover
It has not been. Regular exercise is probably the most helpful.

During an attack, very controlled deep breathing and taking my shirt off to
walk around in circles.

~~~
agumonkey
Exercise is neat indeed, and IMO it has similar mechanisms regarding
meditation but since meditation is invisible and quite fuzzy.. exercise is
easier to use.

If I may, keep the meditation thing in mind, it really changed how I
approached my own anxiety and how I could restore a balanced state of mind.
Maybe one day it will click for you, I hope.

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chiefalchemist
We already know that too many choices is a bad thing. For some apparently,
taken to an extreme, it becomes anxiety. Toss in neuroplasticity and for a
subset that becomes chronic.

Evolution is an infinite process. There's no reason to believe humans are no
longer evolving. Survival is relative to current conditions. Some of us are,
naturally, just not wired for the "amenities" of modern life.

~~~
jgalentine007
I have a tough time making choices now, I think because of anxiety and
obsession. I just bought a snow blower (of all things) and the process wss
torturous. Do I get the 24" that is easier to maneuver and is cheaper? Or the
26" that is more powerful? This one brand has history of breaking shear pins.
This other brand clogs easily. Before you know it I've spent a few hours
watching youtube reviews and it's 60 degrees outside. I finally pulled the
trigger on one and then afterwards found out the model has a history of
carburetor problems (and then go down the rabbit hole of how to clean and
prevent issues.) I hate what the information age has done to my brain!

~~~
chiefalchemist
I recommend the book "Your Brain at Work" by David Rock. He does a great job
at explaining what goes on in your head on a given day, for a given decision.

[https://www.amazon.com/Your-Brain-Work-Strategies-
Distractio...](https://www.amazon.com/Your-Brain-Work-Strategies-
Distraction/dp/0061771295)

~~~
jgalentine007
Cool, added to my cart. Thanks!

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IIAOPSW
I for one look forward to abusing the new and exciting prescription drugs
designed to treat this.

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everydaypanos
I had a girlfriend who when faced with the choice of Chain-Coffee v Small-
Shop-Coffee she’d at first choose the Chain-Coffee but as days passed she’d
choose the SmallShop-Coffee more and more.

When I asked her why she chose the one with clearly no particular expertise in
coffee making(they were also right next to one another) she’d tell me that she
wanted to support the independent small player and not the big corporate
chain.

I always wondered how efficient those theories, like the learning theory are,
with complex intelligent beings like us. Sometimes we can even ignore all
conventional models and just do smt because of philosophical belief. Which in
turn developed by other unknown factors..

(When she was alone at University or Downtown she’d mostly hang out to the
local big Chain-Coffee, but when faced with an easy choice of two different
types of coffee shop one right next to each other she’d after some time make
mostly the “philosophical” choice)

~~~
darkerside
When someone changes a decision like that after multiple experiences with the
outcome, they are overriding a natural human bias for consistency. That likely
indicates a strong reason. Maybe the coffee or atmosphere was actually
consistently better?

The article example is pretty dumb honestly. Chains are a mental shortcut for
making decisions, but truthfully, there is much more variation between two
Starbucks than they would like to admit.

~~~
your-nanny
chains are predictable. less risky: your expectations are stable and accurate.

~~~
meowface
My experience with coffee chains is the chains are predictably mediocre or
bad, and the small shops are less predictable but on average generally much
better than the chains (with the occasional place that's a lot worse than the
chains, but this is rare from my experience).

~~~
your-nanny
could be, but for risk averse people (most people) the variance matters.

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joeberon
A very long article saying little

~~~
ainar-g
It definitely could be _at least_ two times shorter, but it does explain a lot
of my anxious behaviours. A lot of people here think the same, so I wouldn't
say that it says "little".

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aklemm
Quite maybe, but that doesn’t make it easy to treat.

~~~
taeric
There is an irony there. Or maybe it's a trap. We speak of naming things as
akin to understanding them. And we have grown quite used to being able to
control things we understand.

Yet, I am fairly confident we can name more things than we can control. So, I
don't know why that is such a common misunderstanding. One I often have.

~~~
klodolph
Don’t go too far down the rabbit hole.

I’ve had a large number of conversations over the years with people over the
decision whether or not to pursue a diagnosis for a mental disorder. Naming
something doesn’t give you a ticket to understand something, but it does give
you something to find in the card catalog or Google. If you have both eyes
open, you can answer “Do I have an anxiety disorder?” or “Do I have bipolar
disorder?” and understand some of the consequences, both negative and
positive, of labeling yourself that way. It’s not a truly binary choice, but
when you apply these labels to yourself it both exposes you to the effects of
stigma and makes treatment and support available, depending on circumstances.
I say “choice” because for many, the diagnosis _is_ a choice… a capable adult
who is not a danger to themself has a lot of latitude here.

If you think that “we” speak of naming things as akin to understanding them,
then there are very, very few people I know who are in this group “we”.

A name is just a substitute for the infinite complexity of the universe. We
can’t understand the universe, so we have to name things, create models, and
understand the models as a proxy.

~~~
taeric
I am willing to bet I can find several text books that include phrases about
the power of naming things. Pretty sure SICP does. And this is ignoring how
common the trope is in fantasy.

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mnm1
Seems insanely far fetched to expect that similar techniques used to treat
heart disease would work for the psychological, social, and biological factors
that make up anxiety / depression. This type of reductionism isn't even that
effective with the mechanics of the heart (as we see from the constant debate
of what to eat to keep this "simple pump" healthy), yet these doctors expect
to reduce the entirety of one's experience to something so simple? Modern
psychiatry to me is beyond perplexing and truly at or below the level of
doctors using leeches to clean blood. This type of reductionism and the heavy
reliance on drugs that goes along with it truly is akin to those doctors using
leeches. The irony is, those doctors probably spent more time talking to their
patients and while they were obviously ineffective at treating heart disease,
they were likely much more effective at treating psychological problems than
modern psychiatrists because they were at least willing to converse with their
patients.

~~~
DanBC
Front line treatment for a range of anxiety disorders is a talking therapy
from a therapeutic st or psychologist. It's only when that fails that doctors
become involved with medication.

We should not trivialise anxiety disorders: they cause death and harm and they
can lead to years of life lost to disability. They can be very debilitating.

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nyc111
I think they are looking in the wrong place. This is related to intestinal
health and microbiome. So it is closely related to diet. But, I also suspect
it is habitual. Some creatures in the body get "drunk" by the chemicals
released when the body is in the state of anxiety. One such chemical may be
histamine. This is the reason I believe why such trivial things as choosing
train seats can cause anxiety. These internal creature can "paint" a perfectly
normal process as catastrophic to get their feed. These are guesses from
observation of what happens in myself. But I'm sure anxiety is caused by
issues in the gut.

