
Quarantine Bread - andyljones
https://andyljones.com/posts/bread.html
======
iainmerrick
You do not, repeat _not_ have to preheat anything before putting your bread
dough in the oven.

Starting with a cold dutch oven makes it much easier and safer to get the
dough in. Just bake for an extra 20 minutes at the start. If in doubt,
overcooking is better than undercooking for bread.

I’ve done this myself several times and it works great. Here’s the needed
citation: [https://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2017/07/05/baking-
in-a-...](https://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2017/07/05/baking-in-a-cold-
dutch-oven)

Also... I think the reason why most recipes call for preheating is very
interesting! It’s all about reproducing the conditions used by professional
bakers. A professional will use an oven that can inject steam to keep the
bread from drying out; baking in a dutch oven simulates this. And a
professional baker will keep the oven on through the whole working day;
preheating simulates this, so you can use the same timings. But if you’re only
baking one loaf every couple of days, rather than 200 loaves a day, you don’t
necessarily have to do all this stuff.

To use a classic HN analogy, it’s like a startup using all the same technology
and processes as Google. Some of them are a good idea (keeping steam in the
oven), some of them are premature until you’re operating at a massive scale
(preheating the oven).

~~~
lmilcin
The reason to preheat the oven is to brown it quickly without drying out the
outside and overcooking inside.

The same exact reason you put steak on a hot pan, not cold. If you put it on
cold pan it would be cooked through before you get any browning on the
outside.

If you take too long baking bread the outside will be dried out, not crisped.
Not everybody sees the difference but at least for me it is pretty
significant.

Consumer ovens are pitifully underpowered for the most part and will take
forever to bring oven to temperature with a large wet mass inside. Even if the
oven is preheated the temperature instantly dips very significantly when you
put your dough in.

The reason they do it in professional setting is because they don't have time
to cool it down and then get it back up to temperature. Another reason is you
want repeatable results and not depending on starting temperature.

As to the safety, as long as you are not super clumsy just general common
sense is enough to prevent any burns. Don't touch the oven. Use oven mittens.
Use extra long mittens if you don't feel safe. Do not operate on the dough
while it is inside the oven (tray out, then do whatever you want, tray in). If
you use steam to bake (which I do) make sure you understand where the steam
goes so you avoid the areas where the hot 200C steam will be when you open
oven door so you don't burn your face and hands (the answer: it goes up). Keep
your small kids occupied somewhere else so they don't feel the need to have
fun with hot oven while baking and after while it is still hot.

~~~
manwe150
Hm, I'm willing to pay hundreds of dollars to buy a special pan that doesn't
preheat, so I could cook the steak through first, then sear. Maybe I've been
doing this wrong! Or maybe there's a Cinder Grill rep here that can get me a
special deal for shilling their product :)

"The Food Lab" is also a good book, if you like diving deeper on this sort of
thing.

~~~
ineedasername
_> pay hundreds of dollars to buy a special pan that doesn't preheat, so I
could cook the steak through first_

You don't need hundreds, just ~$100 for an inexpensive sous vide cooker with
integrated thermometer & temp regulation [0]

You can put the meet in a zip lock bag and suck the air out with a straw and
have it work just fine if you want to avoid the added expense of vacuum bags.
When the meat hits the desired temp, remove, unwrap, sear the outside, and
voila!

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Anova-Culinary-Precision-Bluetooth-
In...](https://www.amazon.com/Anova-Culinary-Precision-Bluetooth-
Included/dp/B07C7PW3PC/)

~~~
IanCal
Heartily recommend sous vide.

> You can put the meet in a zip lock bag and suck the air out with a straw

You can stay safer by leaving just he corner not zipped and pushing the rest
of the bag slowly underwater, it'll squeeze the air out for you.

------
nrp
For those unfamiliar with baking, the shared recipe is pretty much the
standard crusty white bread recipe, and one that has a great effort/payoff
ratio. One thing to note is that unlike most cooking where you can just sort
of eyeball quantities and get something good, baking bread is chemistry. You
really want to have an accurate kitchen scale to get the ingredient
proportions correct by weight.

Edit: Though if you are looking for a recipe to start with, I would recommend
the Serious Eats one with quantities cut in half:
[https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/08/simple-crusty-
wh...](https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2014/08/simple-crusty-white-bread-
recipe.html)

Spraying on water before closing the dutch oven really does improve the
results.

~~~
Cyberdog
> For those unfamiliar with baking, the shared recipe is pretty much the
> standard crusty white bread recipe

What if I wanted something more similar to wheat bread? Would it be as simple
as using whole wheat flour instead of standard white flour?

~~~
JensRex
I did this just the other day. I left out about 20% of the normal wheat flour,
and added some whole wheat flour. You can't substitute it 1:1, so experiment a
little until the dough feels right.

I've made this recipe many times, but I go by another[1] method, which is less
wall-of-texty, but basically the same.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-
knead_bread](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knead_bread)

~~~
saalweachter
A good rule of thumb is "only replace _some_ of the standard all purpose /
bread flour". Swapping a cup or two out for oat or whole wheat or rye or
whatever is usually fine; replacing it all tends to be trickier.

------
scjody
I'm surprised nobody here has mentioned Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day.
I've been using this method on and off for years with great results. In fact
I'm just finishing off eating a few slices from a loaf that just came out of
the oven now!

The idea is that you pre-make dough in batches and refrigerate. Then on baking
day (every 2-3 days for me) you shape a loaf and bake it. All the baking day
tasks add up to less than 5 minutes spread over a couple of hours, and the
prep is really quick too!

The basic recipe is the best starting point:
[https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2013/10/22/the-new-artisan-
br...](https://artisanbreadinfive.com/2013/10/22/the-new-artisan-bread-in-
five-minutes-a-day-is-launched-back-to-basics-updated/)

~~~
showerst
Seconding this! The recipe is also really forgiving compared to many others.

------
bArray
I do a "one tin" bread process (less cleaning after) - everything gets mixed
and cooked in the bread tin, with some oil added last to stop it from sticking
(and adds a nice tasty crust).

The process is (white or brown):

1\. Fill tin half way without flour

2\. Add some salt (to your taste)

3\. A small layer of yeast on top (I experimented to find a few shakes of
yeast is enough)

4\. Pre-mix the dry mix

5\. Mix with luke-warm (warm to the touch) water (keep adding water until
everything is mixed)

6\. Allow to rise for half hour

7\. Glaze with oil to prevent sticking (all the way around)

8\. Throw in an oven (from cold) at ~180 degrees

9\. Wait 30-50 minutes (depending on the oven)

Experiments that have worked out well:

* Add a light dusting of salt to the outside

* Add seeds to the outside

* Bury lumps of cheese deep into the top of the bread

Benefits are:

* Great testing fresh bread (great having the butter melt into warm bread)

* Exercises your hands quite well

* Very cost effective + ingredients keep for a very long time

~~~
fyfy18
> great having the butter melt into warm bread

If you plan on keeping it (i.e. you don't eat it all at once) its best to
leave it to cool before cutting it open. Even after it comes out the oven the
dough in the middle continues to cook from the steam. If you cut into it too
early the steam will be released leading to somewhat soggy bread.

------
jml7c5
I've been taking a look at Google's search trends on occasion. The term "bread
recipes" had a nice uptick after people started panic buying* flour and yeast:

[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bread%20recipes&g...](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bread%20recipes&geo=US)

Though my favorite is the search trend for 'bidet':

[https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bidet&geo=US](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=bidet&geo=US)

*Perhaps less sensationally: "caution buying".

------
olliej
Honestly I’ve always used this recipe:
[https://www.lifeasastrawberry.com/easy-crusty-french-
bread/](https://www.lifeasastrawberry.com/easy-crusty-french-bread/)

It requires minimal kneading, and the total turn around is less than a couple
of hours.

Of course for both recipes the problem is that they use yeast, which most
houses don’t have. For many/most houses that have baking supplies they’re
almost certain to have baking soda, so a soda bread presumably works better.

------
kwhitefoot
You can make it with far fewer steps:

500 g flour, 400 g water straight from the cold tap(80% hydration), 8 g salt,
1 g yeast.

Mix thoroughly, cover, leave for 12 hours or overnight at whatever room
temperature you have.

Turn out and fold over once, cover, leave to prove for two more hours.

Preheat oven and pot with lid to 230 C.

Drop the dough in the pot, cover cook at 230 C for 30 minutes.

Take of lid, cook for another 15 minutes at 230 C.

Take out and wait 30 minutes before cutting.

Usually attributed to Jim Lahey, see
[https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-
bread](https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread)

Length of time for fermentation is very non-critical and you can drop the
folding and second proving without much harm.

~~~
jkern
Yep this is how we've been doing it at my house too, and results are great.

------
kozikow
I just use a bread maker. Pour in a measured amount of 6 ingredients - it
takes 2-3 mins max. Press a button and have a loaf of bread ready in 3-4
hours. You can even set it in the evening with a delay and have a freshly
baked bread the minute when you wake up - I did it for the last couple of
days.

~~~
karatestomp
Some (most?) also have a dough setting. They’ll mix, knead, and let the dough
rise (warmed, usually) for you, and notify you when they’re done. You can get
about 80-90% of the way to the results of a fully manual process by doing
that, then baking, especially if you’re making a fairly plain loaf. The bake
is where bread machines fall short (in my experience) so doing just that part
in the oven bridges most of the gap. Easy clean up, low effort, good results.

------
jvvw
Bread flour and yeast are almost as scarce here as loo rolls!

~~~
sneak
Yup; I'm hearing from government and media that food supply chains are fine,
yet I can't seem to find rice or flour or yeast anywhere, for going on a week
now. The people who answer phones at local stores don't seem to have any idea
when more is coming in.

If the supply is there, you'd think it'd be straightforward to bring in a few
dozen pallets of big (10-15kg) bags of rice and flour, 1 per customer, so that
people can avoid coming to the store for the next month or so and avoid
infecting themselves/others whilst shopping. I'm curious what the holdup is.

TFA recipe looks delicious. I wish I could try it.

~~~
klodolph
Supply is normal, demand is up. My guess is that panic buying will dry up
fairly soon.

Staff at the grocery store can find out when new stocks are coming in. The
orders have already been placed, the trucks are already scheduled to arrive,
and staff are scheduled to stock the shelves. It’s just a pain to answer
questions from so many people.

Stores here (NYC area) had stockouts in bread earlier in the week. The
stockouts are happening less, they’re less severe, they’re not lasting as
long. Your experience will depend on where you live, exactly which store you
go to, and what time you go to the store. My personal experience is that some
stores will stockout much sooner than others, e.g., Trader Joes, maybe because
the clientele is more prone to panic buying, maybe because of differences in
stocking.

The catch here in NYC is that plenty of people just eat out and don’t know how
to cook, don’t have food stocks, don’t have tools. Our household bakes bread
anyway so we stock flour.

~~~
sneak
> _Supply is normal, demand is up. My guess is that panic buying will dry up
> fairly soon._

I don't think there is any panic buying going on. Buying for 6-12 weeks for a
household is a very rational and prudent thing to do during a declared
national emergency for a pandemic with a doubling time of approximately 3-4
days so far.

12 weeks is what the NSA/IC recommends for their own staff during an
uncontrolled pandemic: [https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/nsa-
corona...](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/nsa-coronavirus-
influenza-pandemic-plan-protect)

Presuming that people buying enough to avoid the store for a month or two is
"panic buying" is to invoke the term "panic" when there probably isn't any
panic, which I think is a very harmful thing to do.

~~~
Reason077
> _" I don't think there is any panic buying going on. Buying for 6-12 weeks
> for a household is a very rational"_

Rational or not, that's the definition of panic buying. If everyone bought
their normal 1-2 weeks worth of supplies then there wouldn't be a problem.

~~~
greedo
You're deliberately excluding the rest of his sentence. If things were normal,
yes, buying 1-2 weeks of supplies would be fine. But they're obviously NOT
normal. Stores/businesses are closing, supply is inconsistent, and wanting to
limit unnecessary interactions make it prudent to plan for greater than your
normal 1-2 weeks.

~~~
Reason077
I wasn't passing judgement on whether it's a right or wrong or rational thing
to do.

I'm saying that this literally is the definition of _panic buying_ : buying
significantly more than you normally would, because you fear that goods will
be unavailable, or you will be unable to do your regular shopping in the
future.

~~~
greedo
Panic is uncontrollable fear. Fear is a normal emotion, especially in this
situation. Panic would imply buying five years worth of toilet paper because
someone told you trees would go extinct.

~~~
ben_w
Words are often used in ways that are etymologically inappropriate. Although
“panic buying” sounds like it should require panic, it doesn’t. Other examples
of this phenomenon include “automobile” meaning something different from
“self-driving” and the way “American” implies “not Mexican” even though Mexico
is a country in the continent of America.

------
01100011
Ha! Quite timely. I have a 4 day old sourdough starter that is starting to
bubble nicely. If you have the patience and the flour, skip the yeast packet
and start a sourdough starter. I've made sourdough in the past, and generally
swear by using a spray bottle filled with water to gelatinize the crust during
baking, but the dutch oven approach seems nice. I ran across it earlier
tonight:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJEHsvW2J6M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJEHsvW2J6M)

~~~
jspash
Is your starter four days old from dry/dormant? Or did you liven up a wet one?
The reason I ask is my starter was purchased online and arrived as a sachet of
powder. And it took at least a week if not more for it to be ready. While the
thing was just beginning to activate it smelled like old socks and bad cheese
with a whiff of cabbage to make things really revolting. Then one day...it
smelled of bread. Even a bit buttery. And for the past six years it’s been
going strong with the same mild breadth yeasty buttery smell.

Anyhow what I’m saying is that 4 days seems too soon to start using in my
limited experience.

Apparently in the first days there are many bacteria fighting for territory
and until the right ones win it’s gonna smell like death!

~~~
Reason077
Yes, a new sourdough starter will go through several phases of strange and
awful smells before it settles down to a consistent yummy sour yeastiness.

Personally I'd question whether its worth even bothering with a dry powder
starter, I just make mine with flour (mix of rye and wheat) and filtered
water. The yeast is either present in the flour or is picked up naturally from
the air.

------
gniv
I too have been making lots of bread lately (baguettes) and have a question to
which I didn't find a satisfactory answer yet. Most recipes seem to suggest
baking temperature of 450-470F. But there are hints that higher is better. My
oven can do 550F. Is higher better? What is the temperature used in bakeries?

~~~
gogoincar
Higher isn’t necessarily better. You are balancing how long to fully bake the
dough with how dry/crisp/burnt the crust becomes. Depending on hydration,
presence of steam, baking surface, etc... Deck ovens (typically used for
French style baguette) are usually in the 450-500 range for baguette, but have
some major differences with home ovens. Even if your oven goes up to 500 or
550, actually maintaining that internal temp can be quite difficult for a home
oven, which is why many home recipes suggest turning it all the way up. Best
advice is to try different things with your oven, see what difference it
makes!

~~~
gniv
Thanks! I will experiment. I just realized that I could also use the
convection setting, which might help equalize the temp.

~~~
gogoincar
Convection is another good one to test. At least in my experience oven temps
often end up lower with convection on up over 450F, because of increased
exhaust (obviously depends on oven). And if you are not using a Dutch oven and
maybe even if you are, it dissipates moisture much faster often leaving a
duller, thinner crust and one that darkens too quickly for the bake. I have
seen posts from people baking at home with convection that are really happy
with it though.

~~~
gniv
Updating mostly for myself: Using convection worked great. The time needed
went from 26 minutes to 16, and the crust is better. I baked at 500, but will
probably reduce to 475 next time.

------
bakoo
If you have flour, and haven't had the chance before, this is the perfect time
to get a sourdough starter going. And don't throw away the discard/leftover,
it can be used as a base for all kinds of stuff, from pancakes to cupcakes!

~~~
jsilence
Heat a some oil in the pan, roast some chopped up scallions and a little
sesame seed and bake a sourdough pancake at medium heat from the discard.
Delicious!

------
ereyes01
I couldn't find yeast easily, but I nabbed a couple bags of unbleached flour,
so I've started making a sourdough starter.

An entertaining and very informative series of videos on sourdough, including
recipes and some basic info:
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWWSiMZBLGP2...](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLURsDaOr8hWWSiMZBLGP2UEs8w3nQDTVY)

------
hypnotist
Instant yeast, 1/12th teaspoon <\-- how does one measure that kind of thing ?
wouldn't it be easier and more accurate to use grams ?

~~~
andyljones
It's too small to use a normal gram-accurate kitchen scale; received wisdom is
that one quarter-teaspoon of instant yeast is about a gram. So a third of a
gram is a twelfth of a teaspoon.

Thanks for a prompt - I've now added a note in the text to this effect!

~~~
OJFord
It's a _lot_ less yeast than I usually use, but I also only let it rise for an
hour or two, not overnight, so I suppose that accounts for it. Assuming for
simplicity's sake that rising & proving time is directly proportional to yeast
quantity; if you had a limitless supply of both yeast and time, would you
suggest less yeast and longer rise, for better bread?

~~~
andyljones
Lord, I'm not really qualified; I've only been baking for a few weeks. My
justification for writing this was more that I thought I could put it in a
style that a new audience would be receptive to, rather than any perceived
expertise on my own part.

That said, received wisdom is that loooong, slow ferments give more flavourful
loaves. That's usually achieved with tiny amounts of yeast and time in the
fridge. But please, go ask the experts over on /r/breadit, you'll get a much
more reliable answer there.

------
jonplackett
What am I missing that makes this ‘quarantine’ bread?

Seems the same as baking non-quarantine bread, albeit with more steps.

Personally I find this recipe way easier and also foolproof.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_crusty_83...](https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/paul_hollywoods_crusty_83536)

~~~
dredmorbius
Addressed in first 'graph of article.

~~~
jonplackett
Clearly I’m still being really dumb. Do you just mean that the ingredients are
dense compared to the output?

~~~
dredmorbius
"The ingredients are cheaper[1], denser and have a longer shelf-life than the
final product, and the process of turning one into the other requires much
more time than effort...."

"1\. If you fancy living 13th-century style, 2000kcal of home-made bread is
35p of flour, salt and yeast."

In a quarantine:

1\. Minimising cash expense is good. Cheaper is better.

2\. Storage space is limited. Denser is better.

3\. Minimising exposure risk through shopping runs is good. Longer shelf-life
is better. Stock up, then live off supplies for days, weeks, or months.

4\. Time is abundant. Long-running tasks are not a detriment.

5\. Low effort is generally good.

"Quarantine bread" minimises use of resources and exposures to risk which
you'll want to minimise in a quarantine, and takes advantage of the abundant
time resource.

~~~
jonplackett
Yeah I get that bread is good in a quarantine - I’m making my own every few
days right now - but is this any better than just making any other bread
recipe. That’s all I’m saying.

------
totalZero
Anyone else ever marvel at the fact that one of humanity's most essential
foods is basically wheat foam?

------
dpau
I highly recommend just reading the book "Flour Water Salt Yeast", which is
where this recipe comes from: [https://kensartisan.com/flour-water-salt-
yeast](https://kensartisan.com/flour-water-salt-yeast)

------
socksy
Hey OP, great loaf, and great idea to bullet point the instructions. Kinda
funny how the comments here differ in tone from /r/breadit so much :)

I hope it's ok if I give some unsolicited feedback:

One thing I've been trying out lately which has massively improved my loaves
is diverging a bit from the Forkish recipes (which I'm sure are great when
done properly, but I think there's a few things you can do to make it easier).
You can see at the top middle of your crumbshot that there's a big gap, where
it kind of fell down a bit. This is because at the point of cooking the dough
didn't have quite enough strength.

There's a number of ways you can increase the strength, but I've found that
folding is pretty useless IME with the flour that I've had. I've had some
success with just 2-3 folds when I switched to a higher gluten flour (or just
added some vital wheat gluten to my flour mix)... but I've found that a better
strengthening technique before I do the folds has radically improved the
strength of the gluten strands.

My favourite way is the Rubaud method (check out
[https://youtu.be/zgz0oAhgwyg?t=72](https://youtu.be/zgz0oAhgwyg?t=72))
directly after the pincer and fold step, for about 5 minutes, followed by a
few minutes break, then another 5 minutes. After that, you can leave off the
later folds completely, or still do them to try and eek out the last bit of
ovenspring.

Additionally, you can see that the loaf spread out a bit on baking. This is
usually an issue of the shaping, which I had troubles with for soooo long
after starting with FWSY. I found that this started to really improve when I
added dough strength, but when I was starting out I was trying to duplicate
what Forkish was doing and kept on failing. I think that
[https://youtu.be/ww78_SfGyQE?t=181](https://youtu.be/ww78_SfGyQE?t=181) is a
much easier tutorial to follow — but of course, if the dough doesn't have the
strength then it'll continue to be difficult.

Anyway, happy baking. Best of luck finding good flours (and try out adding
some wholemeal and rye to the mix stealing from the pain de campagne recipe,
may be easier to find than plain white)!

~~~
andyljones
Thanks very much! Yeah, I realised after Loaf #1 my folding technique needed
to improve, and being a bit more energetic with the folds has given much
better results (today's loaf!
[https://i.imgur.com/2WQYvcT.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2WQYvcT.jpg)). I'd never
heard of the Rubaud method though, I'll try that out tomorrow!

~~~
socksy
Wow, what a great looking loaf!

------
lmilcin
A tip.

When you make bread regularly (as in quarantine), reserve piece of the dough
to add it to the dough the next day.

This is guaranteed, absolutely the easiest way to have sourdough bread
regularly without having to tinker with the starter. The dough is less
hydration than typical starter, it is also already salted. This makes it more
stable than typical 100% hydration starter.

Also, it has the hydration and salt content of your final dough which has the
fantastic property that it does not change your basic proportions regardless
of how much you add it. This makes all calculations extremely easy.

~~~
mcnamaratw
Agreed. The only downside is that a disagreeable sour flavor can creep into
the bread if you add much of the old dough or let it rise too long.

People who like 21st century vinegar-flavored bread can ignore this!

~~~
lmilcin
I typically add around 10% of starter. If you can't stand sour flavor add just
5% and let it rise quickly (higher temperature) so that bacteria does not have
time to grow and accumulate lactic acid.

------
jnellis
I get my bread flour (which is gluten enriched) from a restaurant supply
store. Seeing how restaurants are slowed now and not many folks know about
these stores, it might be a good place to check out. Also, you don't need
yeast if you just maintain a portion of the dough (a sourdough starter) in a
small container in your refrigerator.

------
Tade0
I used to do "bread" (just 20 minutes of growing in a warm place instead of
leaving it overnight).

The result was, well, not amazing, but it served its purpose:
[https://wringing.it/chleb.jpg](https://wringing.it/chleb.jpg)

Best thing about home-baked bread is that you can control the ingredients,
especially the amount of salt and the obvious lack of preservatives.

Some recommendations: -For 260g add a flat teaspoon of sugar - yeast loves
sugar, but only to a certain extent. -Instead of sprinkling the yeast, mix it
with warm water and pour whilst squishing - you'll get a more even
distribution. Also "yeast bombs" taste bad so you don't want that.

My experience is that the end result depends greatly on the amount of squish
you apply. If you play an instrument like a guitar you should have enough grip
force to aerate the dough nicely.

~~~
cyphar
Sugar is not needed at all for bread baking. This is sadly a common myth. The
yeast used in bread making cannot digest complex carbohydrates.

Sugar does serve a purpose in bread (flavour and colour -- sugars love to
brown when heated) but it's not in any way a required ingredient. If you don't
want your bread to be sweetened, don't add it.

~~~
Tade0
_The yeast used in bread making cannot digest complex carbohydrates._

Citation needed.

I mean, I should've mentioned that I use brewer's yeast, but nevertheless.

~~~
cyphar
Yeah, after looking it up I don't think that explanation was right. However, I
would argue the conclusion is correct though -- sugar is not a required
ingredient for bread dough.

The more correct explanation is that the primary source of sugar for yeast in
bread dough is the starches in the flour -- adding a teaspoon of sugar won't
impact the fermentation process enough to make any noticeable difference.

I've tried baking doughs both ways and there really isn't any appreciable
difference. Yeah, the bread with sugar tastes and browns better, but it
doesn't rise any better. You also don't need to "bloom" your yeast (though it
does help to do because it lets you check whether the yeast is alive or not).

For other types of fermentation you do need some kind of sugar (ginger beer,
Kombucha, etc). Beer also has sugar but it's in the form of boiled malts
(which release a lot of sugar into the water).

------
fluxinflex
A damper is previous even easier, only requiring floor, water, salt and a camp
fire -->
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damper_(food)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damper_\(food\))
(depending on your location, a camp fire might be difficult ...)

------
ridiculous_fish
Good place to get your sourdough started (pun intended):

[https://github.com/hendricius/the-bread-
code/blob/master/bas...](https://github.com/hendricius/the-bread-
code/blob/master/basics/sourdough.md)

------
Lio
FYI: a “dutch oven” as mentioned in the article is another name for a
casserole dish or Bedourie oven.

~~~
robertely
Not exactly. Dutch Ovens are specifically chosen for their size and for being
almost universally made of cast iron.

Bedourie ovens would work if cast iron, but they often aren't.

What most people think of as casserole dishes are just not the right size and
shape.

------
lettergram
Personally, I’m partial to soda bread - flour, buttermilk, salt, baking soda.

Easy to make, just mix and plop in pan

------
Vaskerville
No knead bread -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU)

------
qubyte
It seems like everyone in this town (Brighton, UK) realised that they were
about to run out of dried yeast yesterday, and there's none to buy. This
morning I took to twitter with photos of the beginnings of a sourdough starter
and there are a lot of photos of folk doing the same.

Mine won't work though. It's Half and half strong white flour and whole
buckwheat flour. The idea is that the latter will donate yeast. Or maybe it
will...

~~~
jillesvangurp
Give it time. It takes about a week to bootstrap a starter. You need to feed
it every day by giving it equal amounts fresh water & flour and discarding
about half of the starter.

Once you have a stable starter, it's very forgiving. I tend to use pretty much
all of it and then toss some flour/water into the container it used to be in.
The little starter left behind in the container mixes with the flour and water
and it lives on. I keep it in the fridge when I don't need it.

------
hannob
It's just that for the past week I've been unable to buy yeast or flour
anywhere. (And right now I'm avoiding supermarkets as much as I can.)

------
jiofih
It’s kind of sad that the internet now is a cesspool of SEO content, even
coming from technical writers. This is a “quarantine bread” recipe by someone
who says it’s “the first thing I’ve ever baked” and wants to teach you.

The way the recipe extends with a timetable is comical. There are way simpler,
no-knead recipes you can bake in a Dutch oven that will give you even better
results, written by.. bakers. Good luck out there!

~~~
jastingo
> There are way simpler, no-knead recipes you can bake in a Dutch oven that
> will give you even better results.

Care to elaborate and/or post links to recipes? I've been baking for years and
have found that the recipes with longer rise times generally produce more
flavorful loaves. Yes, it's more effort and takes longer, but the payoff is a
more flavorful bread.

That said, if there are recipes out there that require less time AND are more
flavorful, I would love to hear about them.

~~~
mikro2nd
Here's one:

3 metric cups of Brown Bread Flour or Wholewheat flour, 1 sachet instant yeast
(personally we have a homegrown sourdough starter, but that's a whole other
topic). You can get by with a little less yeast, and with bought-in yeast I'd
add about a teaspoon of sugar to get the yeast well fed. A good handful of
sunflower seeds and/or pumpkin seeds if you like. I like to add about a
tablespoon of linseeds. This is all optional. 1 scant teaspoon of salt. (This
is _not_ optional.)

Mix all the dry ingredients, then add water to make a sloppyish dough and mix
well -- you can stir it with a spoon, but not easily, and it's sticky as hell.
It takes _about_ 1.5 to 2 cups of water, but it will vary depending on the
flour, how old the flour is, the weather/humidity on the day, etc.

I like to dust the top of the loaf with a tablespoon or so of poppy seeds.

Turn the dough into a well-greased loaf tin and bung the tin in a plastic bag.
Lift the bag away from the top of the loaf otherwise the dough will stick when
it rises. Warm places are good, but it's not critical, and too warm is bad.
Rising time could be as short as an hour, could be as long as 3 or 4 (unusual)
and depends on too many factors to enumerate here. Once you've baked a loaf or
two you'll have a good idea how long it takes given _your_ flour, yeast,
weather, etc.

When the dough has risen and seems ready to overflow the tin, put it into a
180C oven for 1 hour. When it comes out of the oven, immediately tip the load
out of the tin and allow to cool on a rack. If the loaf won't tip easily out
of the tin, you didn't grease the tin well enough.

A good test of whether your loaf is 'done' is to tap the bottom with a
fingertip. It should sound 'hollow' and not 'dead', but honestly, if you've
never had experience with breadmaking before, you'll be hard-pressed to hear
much difference. It's one of those things that comes with experience, much
like the feel/consistency of dough in more complicated breads.

It's very easy, takes about 5 minutes and lasts better than store-bought, but
tastes so much better that shelf-life is seldom an issue. You may make a few
'flops' the first time or two you try, but they'll all be edible (nay, _tasty_
). Keep at it.

eta: I see (late) you said 'dutch oven'. Just substitute 'dutch oven' where I
wrote 'tin'. I've baked many a loaf with a dutch oven (and on a fire rather
than an oven) and it works every bit as well.

~~~
fulafel
Heh, for anyone else wondering: metric cup is actually a thing in some parts
of the world
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29#Metric_cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_%28unit%29#Metric_cup)

~~~
OJFord
Cups are an absolute nightmare of a measurement system.

In the UK, Imperial (284ml - i.e. 1/2pint), metric (250ml), and 'US customary'
(237ml - i.e. 1/2 US pint) are all commonly sold. Less common is them actually
telling you which they are.

In fact they mostly only say if they're US (though not stating that isn't a
guarantee they're not!) because that's a selling point - people almost
exclusively want them for following American recipes, they're rarely used here
otherwise.

But for some reason that doesn't stop the others being sold.

Recipes also rarely state which. Or they'll say '250ml' but you suspect
they're probably actually just rounding from US cups.

It annoys me out of pedantry and ambiguity, but with my other hat on, I think
people care far too much about precision in recipes and following recipes, to
the detriment of their cooking. For the sorts of things you're going to use a
'cup' for, being 20% off (Imperial vs. US) is probably fine; obviously more so
the more ingredients there are in the recipe that are measured with cups.

------
holri
I use a panasonic bread machine at least once every week for decades now and
it works really well. There is nothing better than a fresh bread.

------
eb0la
I wonder hoy many hackers out there are making their own bread.

I started baking my own yesterday after making pizza dough while the kids were
wathing a movie.

~~~
JensRex
I've been baking for years, because despite all the fancy cuisine that exists
(and I do appreciate that too), there's nothing quite like fresh warm bread
with a generous layer of butter on top. It's something special that you can't
buy anywhere.

------
seiferteric
Be warned that high temperatures can crack the enamel off of enamel coated
dutch ovens. Found this out the hard way... Now I only use that one for bread.
Best to use a un-coated one for bread if you have one.

------
mlthoughts2018
“nothing fancier than a dutch oven” .. lol

I can’t afford to live in an apartment with a large enough stove to
accommodate any kind of standard dutch oven. That’s as an L6 engineering
manager at a large profitable tech company. Even with high salary and equity,
I am entirely priced out of apartments with “normal” kitchen space or
appliances.

~~~
kasey_junk
My only oven is a
[https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/ovens/bov900.html](https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/ovens/bov900.html)

It fits a 5 qt Lodge Dutch Oven just fine.

It actually works better for baking than a full sized oven because it’s easier
to keep a consistent temp.

------
fulafel
White wheat flour is not that good for you, but of course it's an easy
starting point. Try some healthier receipes next time if you start with this.

