
Rap Genius Co-Founder Moghadam Fired - obilgic
http://recode.net/2014/05/26/rap-genius-co-founder-moghadam-fired/
======
k-mcgrady
The only stories I've ever seen about Rap Genius have been ones which would
make me never want to use their service.

~~~
balls187
I actually enjoyed these series of articles:

[http://rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-
annota...](http://rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-annotated)

~~~
andrewjkerr
I did too. Learned a hell of a lot from them that's for sure, lol. Their
Engineering team does a lot of, in my opinion, cool things and I really
appreciate them taking the time to write about it.

~~~
IBCNU
The takedown on Heroku's dyno scaling was impressive. But also funny how they
got themselves in that situation to begin with. If there's one thing about
this world, RAP music will pay for $20k worth of Dyno's a month! Sad sad
world.

edit - I like rap music.

------
JungleGymSam
People are too sensitive. We're basically at the point where nearly any
mistake can destroy the rest of your life. e.g. "zero tolerance" in schools,
stories like this, and the recently ousted CEO of Mozilla.

Case in point, the amount of downvoting happening in this thread: Someone says
something you don't agree with so they must be the devil incarnate.

The reaction to his comments and the comments here are laughable.

~~~
arrrg
The rest of your life? Some rich dude in a very public position got fired for
doing stupid things in public. Boo-hoo. How very, very tragic.

He will manage, no doubt. He will not die poor. Maybe not a billionaire, but
no one’s entitled to _that_. What’s with all the unending sympathy for rich
people in public positions with lots of power making stupid mistakes and
having to face the consequences for those?

The supermarket cashier being fired for picking up change from the floor, now
that’s tragic. This? Doesn’t matter. Do you really believe his life is in any
way ruined? Maybe because he won’t be able to become a billionaire in the
future because of choices he made?

I have exactly zero sympathy for rich people in public positions of power
being scrutinised. That’s the price you pay.

Really, I want someone to explain to me why it’s somehow not ok to critically
examine things who are working in public do in public. I really don’t
understand the argument for that.

Should some lowly employee be fired for what they do in their own time public?
No, of course not, it’s none of the employers fucking business. Should
leadership in public positions (representing the company to the outside) be
fired for what they do in public? Yes, of course, how could you ever think
otherwise?

~~~
EvenThisAcronym
> He will manage, no doubt. He will not die poor. Maybe not a billionaire, but
> no one’s entitled to that. What’s with all the unending sympathy for rich
> people in public positions with lots of power making stupid mistakes and
> having to face the consequences for those?

Because he was judged in the court of public opinion. You may point and say
"What this man did was obviously wrong! He deserves everything he gets!" And
then someday, maybe you make one small, innocuous mistake. One off-the-cuff
comment taken out of context. And the internet lynch mob will come for you.

(Please understand that I'm not saying what he did was said out of context or
could be misinterpreted. It was pretty obviously a dumb thing to do. People
have been "executed" in the court of public opinion for infinitesimally
smaller gaffes, and it is this we must work to stop.)

~~~
arrrg
Freedom of speech is important. I do not want to drag everyone in front of a
judge just because of what they said. Moghadam should no doubt be legally
allowed to say what he said.

However, whether or not someone is fired is not a decision a court has to
make. And when someone who is in the public pisses parts of the public off the
company is perfectly justified in firing that person. Isn’t that just common
sense? They also can not fire the person, of course, and deal with the
consequences of their actions. I’m really not sure why companies should ignore
the public. I mean, they can, if they want to, but there is no good reason to
ignore them just because.

Also, hey, if you are in such a public position of power your error margin
will always be extremely low. No one said it’s an easy job. That’s just how it
is. If you don’t like it that way do something less public and scrutinised.

------
latchkey
It's interesting to see how this founder firing was handled so much better
than the guy who nearly beat his gf to death recently. In that case, the
founder, VC's and board paid the girlfriend off and then tried to cover up the
whole story before the press ripped into them and finally forced his firing.

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/us-canada-
news/Indian...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/nri/us-canada-news/Indian-
American-CEO-charged-with-beating-girlfriend-is-fired-by-company-
board/articleshow/34302694.cms)

~~~
bruceb
Nearly beat his gf to death? Bad dude? Yes. But he didn't nearly beat her to
death, why are you making things up?

------
BorisMelnik
I remember when RapGenius had the Google penalty a lot of folks were ranting
about one of the founders and his bad behavior. Is this the same guy?

~~~
berberous
Yeah. He has blamed some of his behavior on a brain tumor:

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507360/Rap-
Genius-M...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507360/Rap-Genius-
Mahbod-Moghadam-brain-tumor-mean.html)

~~~
staunch
Can someone tell me why this isn't a bigger part of the story? Brain tumor and
brain surgery can both severely alter behavior. He could be a totally
different person if it wasn't for his _fucking brain cancer._

I have nothing but pity and compassion for him after learning that, if it is
in fact true.

~~~
BorisMelnik
I do have a lot of sympathy for him as well, I did not know this. Agree with
the commenter below, he shouldn't be the face of the company. If he does have
intrinsic value to the company perhaps he should just do what he does best
(code, design, etc) but definitely not anything PR related.

------
jgalt212
> Mahbod is the most brilliant community creator we've seen since Caterina
> Fake's heyday at Flickr.

-Marc Andreessen

[http://news.rapgenius.com/Marc-andreessen-why-andreessen-
hor...](http://news.rapgenius.com/Marc-andreessen-why-andreessen-horowitz-is-
investing-in-rap-genius-annotated)

Was Marc wrong, or is Moghadam just creating the wrong kind of community?

------
csense
This comment is crass and tasteless. I guess some people never really get out
of the middle school locker room.

But firing somebody over this? That's totally an overreaction. People may be
outraged now, but in a month nobody will even remember this happened.

~~~
dagw
I have no inside knowledge of any of the people involved but from the looks of
it I'm guessing they've been wanting to get rid of him for while and decided
that this was the excuse they needed.

------
tptacek
This is more-or-less a duplicate of this thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7801028](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7801028)

~~~
dang
Ok, we'll weight this one off the front page, but not bury it as a dupe
completely.

The other discussion seems a little more substantive. (Edit: now having
scrolled through both, I don't know about that.)

------
natural219
I hate that we're still talking about this, but this is vastly different than
the Eich incident. In Eich's case, what he did happened 6 years ago, and with
no intention of making it public. In this case, he's openly telling juvenille
jokes in an environment with a hightened intolerance to this kind of rhetoric
and behavior.

After enough of these cases happen, it just gets to the point where if you
don't realize the need to censor yourself, then _you_ are not a very smart
person. I, for one, am encrypting all of my communication from here out, and
only telling tasteless jokes with close, trusted friends. It's sad, but you
have to ask yourself if it's more important to run a major company, or have
the freedom to tell tasteless jokes. One of the reasons why running a startup
sounds less attractive to me by the week.

~~~
polemic
> _" I hate that we're still talking about this..."_

Well me too, but I hate it because people are still shits to each other, and
we need to keep talking about it so that we're not sending the message that
it's ok to be shits to each other.

Yeah, you probably should only tell tasteless jokes with close, trusted
friends. I don't mean "as a CEO", I mean, in general, because your tasteless
jokes are probably making people feel shitty, and you might as well restrict
that as much as possible.

> _" if you don't realize the need to censor yourself, then you are not a very
> smart person"_

Or you're not that interested in being a _good_ person.

~~~
natural219
I see no problem in exchanging harmless humor between two friends in the
context of a long history of friendship and understanding that no party has
any ill will towards each other or the outside world.

I don't believe it's any of your business what I talk about with my friends in
the privacy of my home. In fact, I find your attitude ignorant, dangerous and
a little scary.

I'm not saying the Rapgenius guy's joke was any funny or appropriate it at
all. It honestly didn't seem that funny to me. But I don't think "making bad
jokes in private" and "being a good person" correlate very well. There are
other things I prioritize, like doing actual good.

------
bksenior
Terrible comment, but for an industry built on fringe ideas and people it
seems the guillotine of public or consensus opinion seems to act quicker and
quick with extreme finality. I don't endorse what he said, and agree that he
has down some clown'ish things in the past, but the 98% perfect of the non-
offensive stuff he does gave Rap Genius a brand in a hyper competitive space
and helped establish a brand.

I don't know much about the internal situation at RG and can only imagine he
was on thin ice if he was cut so fast, but this trend of public hanging really
doesnt give much confidence in unpopular ideas being discussed in public
forums.

~~~
rmrfrmrf
I agree, but I think it's just part of the beast. Investors don't want garbage
like this (clear lapses in judgment that have little to do with the business
itself) affecting their prospects of a return, and quiet discipline allows the
Gawker/Tumblr/Reddit/Twitter/blog complex to spiral out of control in a
positive feedback loop of outrage and speculation.

And while you say Moghadam has been 98% perfect, that doesn't really change
the fact that the other 2% of his behavior would have had him instantly fired
multiple times over in any other setting. I think his removal will allow Rap
Genius to clean up its image a bit.

~~~
bksenior
He has had a pattern of this stuff and I can;t really think of another way
they could have done it, but all of these stories are starting to read like
TMZ.

------
jpwagner
I'm not a Rap Genius user, so I may misunderstand their mission, but that text
does not belong on a sincere literary analysis site, at the very least, so
soon after the incident.

------
argumentum
Bummer, I generally liked Mahbod's eccentric tomfoolery. He also was
_extremely_ passionate about RG (and poetry genius & news genius).

~~~
griffinmahon
Second this. "Passion" is most certainly the right word, and I'd be lying if I
said his relentless dedication to the brand didn't inspire me in other ways.

------
dalek2point3
original statement in case anyone's interested:
[http://news.rapgenius.com/Lemon-a-statement-about-mahbods-
an...](http://news.rapgenius.com/Lemon-a-statement-about-mahbods-annotations-
on-elliot-rodgers-manifesto-annotated)

------
localhost3000
Well, it was only a matter of time with this guy.

------
norswap
Startup founders are like samurai: quicks to fall upon their swords (or be
pushed on them).

------
andrea_s
Relevant: [http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-frontman-blames-
brain...](http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-frontman-blames-brain-tumor-
for-asshole-beha-1450872105) (2013)

I'm especially liking the title's wording.

------
mimog
This seems like quite the overreaction. Why wouldn't an apology suffice?

~~~
k-mcgrady
The co-founder of a company uses his own company's service to display his
misogyny and mock a recent tragedy. He should be lucky the let him 'resign'
and didn't very publicly fire him.

~~~
mjolk
I assume this is cofounder privilege. If one of my employees got my business
this kind of bad press, I'd lead him/her out by the ear immediately.

------
chondos
What would you expect from something rap related? When over half of all rap
songs contain inappropriate comments and defamation of women? Why is anyone
surprised here? do you think that people who write and analyze these rap
lyrics should be admired?

------
zenbowman
Rap is the most misogynistic genre in the history of music, it is not
surprising at all that a rap enthusiast would share the views of the artists
whose music he listens to.

~~~
jonnybgood
No, not really. Saying rap is misogynistic is an overgeneralization. It really
depends on the subgenre which rap has many of. In the case of misogyny, it's
primarily contained within the small _gangsta rap_ subgenre, which has almost
completely died out.

~~~
callmeed
Ha. One of the faces of rap music (Dr. Dre) started in a gangsta rap group
(NWA) and featured misogynistic lyrics in both his group and solo career. And,
according to sources, is about to become an executive at the largest
technology company in the world.

If you honestly think misogyny–or, at a minimum, objectification of
women–isn't easy to find in modern rap genres, I'd say you're seriously
misinformed or delusional.

Eminem has the #3 album on iTunes _right now_. Here's one lyrical excerpt[0]:

 _Snatch the bitch out her car through the window, she screamin’ / I body slam
her onto the cement, until the concrete gave and created a sinkhole / Bury
this stink ho in it, then paid to have the street re-paved._

[0] [http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/eminem-hip-hop-we-
shouldn...](http://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/eminem-hip-hop-we-shouldnt-
accept-misogyny-in-2013)

~~~
streptomycin
Speaking of Dr. Dre and misogyny...
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Barnes#Dr._Dre_incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Barnes#Dr._Dre_incident)

 _[Dr. Dre] picked her up by her hair and "began slamming her head and the
right side of her body repeatedly against a brick wall near the stairway" as
his bodyguard held off the crowd with a gun. After Dre tried to throw her down
the stairs and failed, he began kicking her in the ribs and hands. She escaped
and ran into the women's rest room. Dre followed her and "grabbed her from
behind by the hair again and proceeded to punch her in the back of the head."_

 _N.W.A. 's MC Ren later said "bitch deserved it", and Eazy-E "yeah, bitch had
it coming." As Dr. Dre explained the incident, "People talk all this shit, but
you know, somebody fuck with me, I'm gonna fuck with them. I just did it, you
know. Ain't nothing you can do now by talking about it. Besides, it ain't no
big thing-- I just threw her through a door."_

~~~
xanados
It seems likely that he would have done the same to a male in the same
situation, so I fail to see how that relates to misogyny rather than a general
culture of violence.

------
LoganCale
That comment isn't even offensive. People get offended way too easily.

------
bandushrew
Calling that offensive is a real stretch, IMO.

I am fascinated that it warranted a firin'

~~~
codezero
Can you explain why you think that it's a stretch to call that offensive?

I guess I would describe it as insensitive and unconstructive (to the service
and the document in general)

~~~
bandushrew
It is definitely insensitive, and it is clearly not constructive.

I dont think that insensitive is the same thing as offensive?

I must admit, I am completely failing to understand the apparent outrage.

I keep feeling like I am missing something, would anyone be willing to explain
it while they downvote me?

~~~
codezero
His being fired isn't necessarily in response to outrage. The current CEO
explained it pretty well: that behavior wouldn't be tolerated by a community
member (moderator would remove it), and if a moderator made the comment, they
would be removed as a moderator. At the co-founder level, breaking community
standards (and probably other issues in the past) carry higher consequences.

The community standards of Rep Genius aren't necessarily the standards of any
other community, though clearly there were members of the public who found the
comments to be insensitive and out of line, their desire to call this out and
the large response could be called outrage, but it's probably more appropriate
to call it widespread disappointment.

One could just go to the dictionary definition of outrage though: arouse
fierce anger, shock or indignation. or violate or infringe flagrantly (a
principle, law, etc.). In this case, the community standards of Rap Genius or
even just the standards of the general public.

I would say it meets both definitions, 1) it aroused anger and shock, in
particular because it was done by someone with such visibility and done in
such an insensitive way so close to the time of the actual event (this is
something that is often important to consider, rage is proportional to
closeness of the event, is that OK? I don't get to decide that.) 2) He
infringed, and flagrantly, again, because of his visible position, and the
infringement, again, is one of a community standard, which isn't necessarily
defined in black and white.

edit: I didn't downvote you in this thread, at the root or otherwise, and I
hope that other HNers do the same, civilized discussion is the only way that
these kinds of issues can be (if possible) understood. There is no universal
standard for human behavior, so there will always be disparate opinions and
views.

My favorite twist on the Golden Rule: Do not do unto others as you would have
done unto yourself; You may have different tastes. Do unto others as they
would have done unto themselves.

------
afternooner
I can only say that this is a fitting response. From the farce of Men's
Rights, PUA & brah culture to general misogyny, I'm getting a little tired of
many of the youth of my gender. Has anyone seen any studies on why we're
seeing this surge of ignorance?

~~~
CamperBob2
Yeah, just look in the Greek and Roman classics sections of your local
university library.

~~~
afternooner
I'm sorry, I don't understand your meaning.

~~~
sehr
Young people being assholes isn't exclusive to this generation, it's just
nowadays we are so connected you can see & hear them a lot more.

We aren't special, it's been happening for millennia.

~~~
afternooner
It's not an unreasonable point, but I feel like this is different. Either way,
we'll have to see how this turns out.

