
Iran unveils new indigenous stealth fighter “Qaher 313″ - starpilot
http://theaviationist.com/2013/02/02/iran-new-stealth-fighter/#.UQ1x3KXpg21
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maximilianburke
There is a higher resolution picture of the cockpit here:

<http://i47.tinypic.com/24zxgsw.jpg>

The avionics seem to be what you would get in a Cessna or other small plane.
The airspeed indicator marks the never exceed speed at 260kts.

Based on the interior picture it also looks like the fuselage is made out of
molded chopped strand mat fiberglass, the same type of material you'd find in
the hull of a boat rather than an aircraft.

~~~
redthrowaway
This just reminds me of the photoshopped missile debacle. Who is Iran trying
to fool with these things? They have to know that any competent military will
see right through it. Are they trying to convince their own people that the
military is all-powerful?

~~~
hencq
Most likely to impress its own people I think. It's not like Iran's government
is very popular with its own people nowadays. They seem to derive their
legitimacy from standing up to the West (and particularly the US).

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stcredzero
So, how would one go about disrupting the world of stealth aircraft? How would
one make the whole notion of "Fifth Generation Aircraft" obsolete?

How about Infrared Telescopes operating above the atmosphere? Right now, all
fighter aircraft need to burn liquid fuels to extract energy in the form of
rapid thermal expansion of gasses, which spew out the back or which operate
turbines to run fans.

Large IR telescopes could be used to spot IR sources moving rapidly against
the background, which could be localized and targeted by hypervelocity
missiles. Stealth planes have a very reduced radar cross section, perhaps the
size of a bird, but if you know exactly where the plane is, a radar guided
missile could be made to home in on even a bird-sized return in the immediate
vicinity.

Such telescopes could be deployed on suborbital rocket planes that can overfly
the area on a moment's notice. They could also be placed on circling high
altitude drones.

I'd bet that someone at DARPA has already gone through this thought process,
and a program to disrupt 5th generation fighters already begun. (Not
necessarily with this idea, though.)

~~~
runarb
Don't think that would be so great in practice.

* The IR part would be vulnerable to countermeasures ( flares etc [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CH-46_Sea_Knight;_Flares.j...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CH-46_Sea_Knight;_Flares.jpg) )

* The communication between the telescope and missile would be vulnerable to jamming.

* The communication between the telescope and missile would have to be very fast to make the missile catch up to fast manuring jets.

* If you IR telescopes would be space based they would be more expensive then jets, meaning you probably want have enough of them.

* All high altitude and space based weapon system are very vulnerable to a nuclear weapons. When a nuclear weapons is detonated in low earth orbit there are almost no atmospheric pressure to compress the explosion and little gravity to lower it. Instead the gravity will bend the explosion around the earth, radiating near earth space and high altitudes. Because of this just a single nuclear devise can take out must the world satellites and high altitude airplanes. (This is one of the reason last resort type nuclear weapons don't uses GPS/GLONASS/Galileo satellite navigation. Satellite navigation is amused to be destroyed early in a nuclear war). While a full nuclear war is not very likely, detonating a single nuclear devise like this maybe be more acceptable if attacked.

Fighter jets on the other hand is a proven and efficient weapon against other
jets.

~~~
stcredzero

        - The IR part would be vulnerable to countermeasures 
    

Yes, but to fool the observer, the decoy would have to travel at the speed of
the jets, for as long as the jets. At that point, you might as well have
loaded some explosives onboard as well and just have launched a cruise
missile.

    
    
        - The communication...would be vulnerable to jamming.
    

Line-of-sight communication by lasers.

    
    
        - The communication...would have to be very fast
    

You picked the straw-man granularity. This is to replace AWACS, not the seeker
on the end of the missile. This is to get the seeker on a missile close enough
to invalidate stealth.

    
    
        - IR telescopes would be ... more expensive than jets
    

You'd only need one for many fighter aircraft.

    
    
        - ...space based weapon system are very vulnerable to a nuclear weapons.
    

If your air superiority system _requires_ the other side to deploy nukes, then
it really seems to me that you've got a winner!

    
    
        Fighter jets on the other hand are a proven 
        and efficient weapon against other jets.
    

Points off for misreading. I never said to replace fighters, period. Radar
didn't replace fighters, it just enabled fighters to make intercepts more
easily. Disrupting X doesn't mean replacing X.

~~~
runarb
I agree. In addition to or replacement for AWACS this may work, but you still
need to hit the jet with a missile. Detecting is't enough, you also have to
stop them.

 _\- Line-of-sight communication by lasers._

I would turn and pull up so the missile must chase me, then deploy my military
grade smoke generator :) ( edit: here I am:
[http://www.dontgivvafuq.com/misc/pics/nam/uh1/uh-1_smokescre...](http://www.dontgivvafuq.com/misc/pics/nam/uh1/uh-1_smokescreen.jpg)
)

~~~
stcredzero

        I would turn and pull up so the missile must chase me
    

Remember I stated a hypervelocity missile. You're assuming a pilot would have
enough time to react after the missile has been detected. Still, there's the
chance that the missile wouldn't work, so one could still vector fighters in
for an intercept. That big smoke plume is going to help my pilots out a lot.

Also, if the incoming airplanes are on a stealth strike mission, their cover
has already been blown.

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rikacomet
Points:

1\. Its a model only, the video says so itself.

2\. If Iran makes a airplane, no need to think it will use it on west
automatically. This news just happen to come at when both sides have tensions.
Peace people!

3\. If you look at it from a technological perspective, making such an
airplane, despite the international embargoes, is a big feat.

The odd shape would be really interesting to analyse for its aerodynamics. I
hope someone can do a detailed analysis.

4\. Imagine, if you are a country, would you really post pics of a new
'advanced' jet you just made? you wouldn't and they didn't. This is a rather
diplomatic approach to make us reflect, how ready are we to jump the horse.
But again, this does not prove in anyway that Iran's nuclear intention is
peaceful or not.

Lets not have another war in our lifetime anytime soon please. Live and let
live!

~~~
kapitalx
> "the video says so itself"

The video says "all stages of design and build .. are complete".

~~~
rikacomet
there are two footages

1\. the one shown up and close in pics (model) 2\. the real plane flying for
few seconds and only doing 1 maneuver (flip)

~~~
thedrbrian
But it's an RC model real plane.

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at-fates-hands
If you ever wanted to know how far advanced the US military is, here's a prime
example. It's a long way from model to prototype to full scale production, so
I wish them good luck.

This hardly worrisome considering we're already working on third generation
stealth technology. We also have the best pilots in the world, and technology
that makes this plane look like a fourth year engineering student project.

~~~
mikecsh
>> We also have the best pilots in the world

By what measure?

~~~
diminoten
If you consider training to be a measurable value of skill, I am randomly
guessing that the above statement is due to the fact that we train our pilots
more than any other military?

(I don't know if that's true or not, just that's what I would gather as the
source of such a statement)

~~~
pm90
Indeed. Plus, the tactical knowledge obtained from fighting so many wars means
that not only are there many experienced pilots, but when these pilots retire,
they are likely going to train other pilots in their craft.

~~~
mpyne
Yes, it's one thing to develop the industrial scale needed to field and
effectively utilize aviation assets, it's another thing entirely to adapt and
maintain that base as long as the U.S. has been able to.

Right now the U.S. has the institutional knowledge within the military, the
industrial base to build craft, repair those craft, make custom tools/mods to
those craft, well-trained and very experienced pilots, well-trained and very
experienced aircrew, aircraft maintenance techs, etc.

The latter means that the U.S. has a ready base of available personnel to use
as expert instructors, as policy makers (in and out of the military), to feed
back into the industrial base, etc.

So it's not at all that other countries _can't_ do it, but the investment
needed to do so efficiently is just so massive nowadays.

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lifeisstillgood
I have a theory on corruption - there are basically two kinds if corruption

1\. The "good" corruption. Think US congress pork barrel politics. It makes
doing the right and progressive thing more expensive but it does not prevent
it happening. So we grow richer.

2\. The "bad" corruption. The tribal politics of mid-african nations is a well
studied affair (building roads to one part of a country and not to the
opposing tribal areas etc). This corruption stultifies actual growth.

(there is a point honest...)

The aircraft exists as a marker in a game of internal Iranian politics, and
while there are many possible explanations I fancy the "bad" corruption one -
it takes a special kind of distance from reality to imagine this will fool
anyone with skin in the game - and that distance from reality tends to come
from arrogant under educated privilege

In short Iran looks like it may be suffering from bad corruption. Which is
interesting - there has so far only been one way to grow a global superpower -
democracy, science and forcing the politicians to pay lip service to both.
Both China and India are vying for that new role. We may see an answer to
which of the three you can do without soon.

~~~
sausman
If a country grows richer its corruption is a good thing? What good comes out
of "good" corruption? If you look at corruption in isolation it's hard to find
any.

~~~
lifeisstillgood
Was new York growing and expanding as Boss Tweed took kickbacks and traded
votes? Yes. Would it have grown without his control? Of course. But if he had
been Papa Doc like? Compare Indonesia and Nigeria (search undercover economist
where I must have remembered "my" theory) - take too much in bribes and drive
away investment.

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velodrome
Does not mean it can't fly. It looks a lot like the X-36
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_X-36>

However, I do agree the the craft shown in flight looks and sounds like a
model r/c jet. If the craft is really this size, it cannot carry much of
anything to the enemy. It is more of recon fighter.

It's stealth abilities are also questionable.

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rdl
Boeing should give them a few billion dollars to get this in the air to keep
f-35 funding from disappearing due to lack of threats.

~~~
gruseom
Are you familiar with Pierre Sprey's critique of the F-35, and if so, is he
credible?

~~~
rdl
He's certainly got the background but I think he pushes his own agenda, which
isn't compatible with how the modern military works.

Ultimately what kills F-35, etc. is drones. Over the next 20 years I think
we'll see all air to air go to drones (for performance) and air to ground (for
expendability, size, etc.). The F-35 would be the last major offensive
aircraft, if it does happen.

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guylhem
I'm not a plane designer, but there are very interesting pictures.

However, the article is weird - "And, above all, the aircraft is way to small"

The point of a stealth fighter is in being stealthy. Being small may therefore
be a good thing.

And as long as it can strike and deliver missiles, how relevant is its size?

Also, aybe it will be cheaper to make, something especially important for a
country under embargo. Quantity is a quality it itself - and making 10 small
planes might be better than making 3 average sized ones.

There is another critic about the lack of advanced computer electronics in the
cockpit. Who knows, maybe the iranians learnt a thing or two after the stuxnet
centrifuge stories, and this makes the plane less vulnerable to viruses and
software attacks??

~~~
meaty
I think the issue regarding the size is more that there isn't enough space to
add enough fuel, a full set of avionics such as comms, radar, IFF etc and get
a pilot without a growth hormone deficiency crammed into it (perhaps they are
using that monkey when it comes back!).

Size doesn't matter with stealth technology at all - it's all about which way
EM radiation bounces off it.

It looks like a JJ Abrams prop to be honest. Actually not even that credible.

Regarding virus and software attacks on aircraft (military at least) - it's
all a load of JJ Abrams style "let's inject a virus into the core" horse shit.

~~~
greghinch
So I take it you're not a JJ Abrams fan?

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3amOpsGuy
All fur coat and nae knickers as they say.

Shame because I reckon we're overdue some positive news about Iran instead of
all the propaganda we've been getting drip fed in the west over the past
couple of years.

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rmah
As far as I know, it's not even a prototype, just a model.

~~~
pknerd
MVP? :-)

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neurotech1
Some comments in the article imply its a mock-up, but Flight Global embedded a
video
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v...](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ok2aMgfBdCs#t=22s)

~~~
Encosia
That's an RC model with the jet sounds dubbed over. It's almost impossible
that the plane would maneuver that well to begin with, without thrust
vectoring and using what looks like Cessna avionics, but it's a certainty that
the fiberglass model shown would disintegrate under the force of those kind of
maneuvers.

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DrinkWater
Qaher like the english 'anger'?

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truebecomefalse
That is a bizarre looking jet.

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chakalakasp
On second thought, lets not go to Tehran. Tis a silly place.

