
The Coming Anti-Tech Counterculture - delwin
http://delw.in/the-coming-counterculture/
======
blhack
The _coming_ anti-tech counterculture?

My girlfriend is adamant about keeping her old crusty flip phone with a broken
hinge that doesn't have a real keyboard on it, or even the internet!

The majority of my friends almost refuse to own televisions.

I own a kindle, but almost never use it in favor of paper.

I also own several prosumer digital SLRs, but favor my old vivitar 35mm camera
from high school.

etc. etc. The list goes on.

(For reference, my girlfriend and I are both programmers)

Look even here on HN, how many people are actually _anti_ facebook, or how
common "I'm staying off the internet for 6 months!" posts are.

The anti-tech counterculture is already here.

~~~
beatpanda
Yep. And I think people who work in tech are more aware of the problems "bad"
technology creates and are more likely to avoid it, even as the rest of
society starts "coming online" in the sense that they have some kind of a
personal web presence.

~~~
onezeno
Reminds me of an article I read (maybe here) that described how doctors are
less likely to pursue aggressive treatments for themselves when faced with
late term cancer or similar diseases.

~~~
nickpinkston
There was an NPR Radio Lab (?) about this recently I believe.

~~~
startupfounder
[http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-
blog/2013/jan/15/bitt...](http://www.radiolab.org/blogs/radiolab-
blog/2013/jan/15/bitter-end/)

------
srf
This is much more common than you'd think. The reason you don't hear more
about it is that these people don't use the internet, so it's not like they're
going to tweet or blog about it.

------
Aloha
"For example, Facebook has considerably altered how we interact with our
friends. In some ways, it has benefited us — for example, I wouldn’t have been
able to have the conversation with Max that prompted this discussion if he
hadn’t seen my Facebook status and chatted with me after noticing I was
online."

I'm a LiveJournaler, and have been since like 2003, and while the community is
less busy than it was, I've been having a much higher quality of interactions
on there, long before facebook was around doing anything. For me, facebook is
just the latest chapter in helping people around the world connect, with more
cute pictures of cats however that what came before.

------
scarmig
I see this and look forward to it, but I'd argue it's not anti-tech. Indeed,
for it to come to pass you have to be very pro-tech. "Facebook" and "Google"
aren't the archetypes of tech, it's important to remind ourselves, though
marketing would have you believe they are. Tech is (or should be) about
applying human ingenuity to solve real human problems in a way that expands
our appreciation of existence and respects our individual autonomy.

Clever use of AJAX isn't interesting. A decentralized and open network of
self-bootstrapped 3d-printers suited for everything from making electronics to
replacement kidneys? That's a different story.

~~~
delwin
Read a little further into the article and you will see I very much agree with
you.

------
krenoten
"I wouldn’t have been able to have the conversation with Max that prompted
this discussion if he hadn’t seen my Facebook status and chatted with me after
noticing I was online."

Communication is not Facebook. Non-Facebook users have an equal interpersonal
experience to that of a user. It is frustrating to see how much of the online
English speaking world feels locked into Facebook. No one is locked in. We are
free to spend our time seeking satisfaction any way we like, and it is nearly
always more efficient to communicate using other tools.

~~~
delwin
that's what I'm saying! of course we're not actually locked in, but it's a
pervasive illusion, especially if you are of a particular age/social group.

------
clavalle
The anti-technology counter-culture is pretty widespread already.

I don't have a facebook page because of their policies and attitude toward
privacy.

And that is 'anti-technology lite'. I know a guy who bought a goat and honey
farm and literally lived in a hole in the ground for a few years until he
could get his mud hut built.

But, ultimately, technology is useful and those that don't utilize it will be
at a disadvantage.

I, for example, promised my wife I would go ahead and re-activate my facebook
account soon so she could stop relaying messages to me. Utility conquers all.

~~~
lutusp
> The anti-technology counter-culture is pretty widespread already.

Your anti-technology example isn't really an anti-technology example.

> I don't have a facebook page because of their policies and attitude toward
> privacy.

But your not having a Facebook page isn't an objection to technology, it's an
objection to Facebook's privacy policies, which isn't a technological issue.

> And that is 'anti-technology lite'.

Not really. If you were unwilling to have an airplane-style black box in your
car that recorded your every move, would that choice be based on your attitude
toward privacy, or your attitude toward technology?

If you were the leader of an Al-Qaeda cell in Pakistan, would you refuse to
use a satellite telephone because (a) you didn't want to be blown up by a
drone strike, or (b) you were against modern technology?

Not all rejections of technology are based on a rejection of the technology
itself -- there are other equally valid reasons.

~~~
dnissley
Exactly, it's silly to call this culture "anti-technology." I really like the
guy he linked to (Ran Prieur). He would laugh at being called an "anti-
technologist". From one of his essays:

 _I love technology! A fungophobe is someone who fears all mushrooms, who
assumes they're all deadly poisonous and isn't interested in learning about
them. A fungophile is someone who is intensely interested in mushrooms, who
reads about them, samples them, and learns which ones are poisonous, which
ones taste good, which ones are medicinal and for what, which ones are allied
to which trees or plants or animals. This is precisely my attitude toward
technology. I am a technophile!_

 _Now, what would you call someone who runs through the woods indiscriminately
eating every mushroom, because they believe "mushrooms are neutral," so there
are no bad ones and it's OK to use any of them as long as it's for good uses
like eating and not bad uses like conking someone over the head? You would
call this person dangerously stupid. But this is almost the modern attitude
toward "technology." Actually it's even worse. Because of the core values of
civilization, that conquest and control and forceful transformation are good,
because civilization "grows" by dominating and exploiting and killing, and by
numbing its members to the perspectives of their victims, it has been choosing
and developing the most poisonous technologies, and ignoring or excluding
tools allied to awareness, aliveness, and equal participation in power. It's
as if we're in a world where the very definition of "mushroom" has been
twisted to include little other than death caps and destroying angels and
deadly galerinas, and we wonder why health care is so expensive._

~~~
delwin
I agree with that. Read the end of the article and you'll see I define the
culture as not anti-tech but critically judgemental and cautious towards it.
And while that is not be a totally new idea, I'm bringing it to attention
because I think it is growing rapidly and will explode soon. Countercultures
impact the mainstream heavily by definition, and I think this one has yet to
make a big splash.

------
gyardley
I suppose this is one possible counterculture, but I'm not sure why it's more
likely than any of a myriad of other possible countercultures.

Why this counterculture, apart from what the author would _like_ to see
develop? I mean, I'd personally like to see an anti-urban, anti-density
counterculture _enabled_ by technology, but I'm not under the illusion that
that's going to happen just because it appeals to me.

~~~
ChristianMarks
On the contrary, it has happened, with unexpected consequences:

 _...in little more than a single generation, this long relationship with
nature has withered in a culture that finds Americans giving themselves up to
the indoor ease of the technological way of life. Today’s average American
spends most of the day indoors or inside an automobile traveling some hellish
commuter road between workplace and home. Experience of his own natural
habitat comes largely from watching beautifully photographed films on
television. In Sterba’s word, he has become “denatured.”_

[http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/feb/21/visitor...](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2013/feb/21/visitors/)

------
magice
Here is the interesting thing about the US (I almost typed America, but we all
know America also includes places like Canada and Mexico and Chile, etc.):
everyone believes that s/he is in an counter-culture. By that I meant every
single person seems to hold to a belief that s/he belongs to a special clique,
or holds on to unique ideology.

Reading the article, the things should jump out to you: 1\. all of the points
are no secret! 2\. All of those points are the mainstream. Frankly. Facebook
was cool, I don't know, 5, 6 years ago? The crusade against Facebook started 2
years ago already, and the anti industrial food started at least a decade ago.
All of these believes are now, surprised!, mainstream. 3\. all of the listed
end notes are common sense that every single fucking person will agree to.

So, what's so "coming" about those things? what's so "counter"-culture about
those things?

Ah, the US-ian mind. What a wonderfully ignorant thing.

~~~
kscaldef
Downvoted for generalizing from one blog post to a slam against 300 million
individuals. Ironically, you appear to be doing exactly the same thing that
you're criticizing.

------
earthgal
With Lit Motors C1, cars have become 'unnecessary evil'.
<http://litmotors.com/c-1/> I am not a paid blogger or something like that for
Lit Motors, I just hope to see a faster adoption of these and other bikes like
them. This will make my five mile commute to work take less than 10 minutes
rather than the usual 20-45 minutes. MPG is just one benefit of these bikes,
reduction in congestion, denser communities due to less parking space etc are
some of the numerous other benefits. Cars may improve their mpg in the future,
but with their size, they can never have the other benefits. Car should never
be the vehicle to use for a single passenger!

~~~
snogglethorpe
> _benefit [is] reduction in congestion, denser communities due to less
> parking space ... Car should never be the vehicle to use for a single
> passenger_

Er, of course, the same is true even _without_ the "Lit Motors C1"...

Denser communities, walking, biking, and good public transit FTW.

------
goldfeld
The summary isn't much more than common sense from people who understand
technology and the web enough to tell the good from the bad, as opposed to the
majority of people (from all walks of life). This is happening today largely
through internet freedom activism and the like, as spotlighted recently.

I'd think for something to be labeled a next great counterculture it would
have to go further, as in a neo neo-Luddite movement, possibly shunning
consumerism altogether and having this weird duality of knowing a great deal
about technology yet living with as few of it as possible. Though of course it
would soon gobble up masses of hipsters following it, with no idea whatsoever
of why they're doing so.

------
Taylorious
This is really amusing to me because I was just thinking about this today. I
was thinking about it in the context of humanism and how we seem to be living
in a culture of antihumanism right now. Over the decades this pendulum swings
back and forth. This lead me to think about how this current generations
obsession with tech and being connected all of the time will eventually lead
to a cultural shift in the next generation that isn't necessarily anti-tech,
but much more grounded in the real world. This article makes me believe this
even more.

~~~
delwin
Thanks for the term antihumanism. That is more what I'm getting at.

------
sailfast
Strangely, I do not see this article as anti-tech at all. In order to be a
part of the proposed counter-culture you suggest you must first have an
understanding of technology that one could only achieve after working with it
for awhile. Reading this, I could not help but thinking "so this is what the
next phase of geek will look like." Rather than being counter-tech, it is just
more discerning. Now that geek is mainstream, we must segment further. A more
natural progression rather than a counter-cultural movement.

------
firefoxman1
I think it's much more likely that we'll see tech become more ingrained, yet
less apparent, in our culture. There seems to be some truth to this post that
we're (somewhat) fed up with tech controlling our lives and our
devices/services being so needy/attention-hungry at the same time. It gets
old.

But things like Pebble, Google Glass, and Nest are fixing this. Tech will be
less in-our-face, more useful, and less annoying than ever.

------
caseorganic
Excellent! So you mean to say that my schoolyard days of being hated for
liking computers are going to come back to me as an adult?

------
lubujackson
There already has been some appreciation for the Amish approach (no joke)
because despite appearances, the Amish aren't anti-tech and DO discuss and add
new technologies to their culture, but the bar is just very high.

I would say this has been a trend since around the 50s when plastics were new
and no one paid any attention to the consequences. Over time I think as a
society we have become a little more cautious about unintended consequences,
but there's a way to go.

I don't think anyone is (or should be) against new technology for counter-
culture's sake. The issue is that the full consequences need to be taken into
consideration, and I think that approach will certainly gain ground and
eventually be considered common sense.

------
onemorepassword
This isn't anti-tech. It's sensible use of technology, and most significant of
all, quite common amongst exactly those that understand technology best.

It's no coincidence that it's usually techies that protest stuff like voting-
machines.

------
at-fates-hands
Is there a difference between being "counter-culture" and "privacy-aware"?

There's a difference between protecting your online identity and not wanting
intrusive technology in your life and actually being a part of something which
is "counter" to what is considered "mainstream".

I'm not sure what he's describing fits what I think of as counter cultures.
The hippies in the 60's, graffiti artists, punks, and the beat culture are
some of the most notable examples. Also, it this "anti-tech" culture really
that big?

~~~
delwin
I don't think it is a counterculture yet. I think it will happen in 10-20
years, maybe more. Just a humble prediction. So no, it's not a counterculture
right now. It's a bunch of vague ideas and random people who don't feel
totally comfortable using Facebook or putting on Google Glasses. I think once
tech begins to infiltrate further into our social lives (even further than it
already has), _then_ the counterculture will coalesce.

------
mlwalla
Responsibility and limits are key. Be responsible for what you through into
the Internet, and make sure you take time off.

Also, read!

Technopoly: the Surrender of Culture to Technology by Neil Postman

And theorist Vilem Flusser was an amazing philosopher who forecasted the ways
of the Internet before the Internet was mainstrem.

~~~
mlwalla
Recently heard the terms "digital natives" and "digital immigrants" on the
Colbert Report.

"Citizenville" author Gavin Newsom

------
pwan
See Wendel Berry "Why I am NOT going to buy a computer" from 1987, especially
his standards for technological innovation at the end.

<http://home.btconnect.com/tipiglen/berrynot.html>

~~~
delwin
This is awesome!! I love this guy.

------
motters
Based upon this list I might be a member of this future counter-culture. I fit
5 out of the 7 criteria, although I wouldn't characterise myself as being
anti-technology.

------
JonSkeptic
I thought the anti-tech counterculture were called the "Amish"

------
Apreche
It's so hilarious to see people write things like this as if they have
discovered or thought of something novel. Have they not read any of the major
cyberpunk or sci-fi novels of the past century? Have they not studied any
history of technology? The article doesn't mention Luddites even once.

Personally I view anti-technology, anti-progress, and anti-intellectualism as
perhaps the greatest threats to our society. I want to get as close to a Ghost
in the Shell-like world as possible in my lifetime, and those forces are
directly in the way.

~~~
dljsjr
Jesus.

Maybe OP doesn't like sci-fi, and so no he hasn't read any of those books. I'm
a nerd and I probably haven't read most of the books that you were bouncing
around in your head when you made this comment.

And he never claimed to be Socrates. He simply had an insight and chose to
share it.

Why so angry?

