
Why Groupon is not in Australia (domain squatter) - elvirs
http://www.groupon.com/blog/cities/why-groupon-isnt-in-australia/
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phunel
Karma?

From Andrew's Mixergy interview, <http://mixergy.com/andrew-mason-groupon-
interview/> -

Talking in regards to the original British owner of Groupon: "...We’re doing
something somewhat similar to that in the United States, so, maybe we can work
together on this. We can take this to Europe.’ He said, ‘No way.’ We said,
‘Okay. ‘We continued operating. Then we had a trademark for Groupon. That
trademark extended to England. We contact him and say, ‘Hey, you can launch
that thing, but you can’t use the name Groupon because we have a trademark on
it.’ So then, he decided he wanted to sell. I think we bought it in May 2009
or something like that for maybe $250,000, which seemed like a lot at the time
and now it seems cheap."

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ntoshev
I wonder why they think a local domain is necessary for their business (and is
it really). For example, Facebook doesn't use local domains - it uses .com for
everything.

~~~
wheels
It's probably more about the trademark than the domain. The other company
_applied for the Groupon trademark_ as well, so trading under that name until
the trademark dispute is settled could be quite problematic and using a
different name wouldn't be able to leverage the Groupon brand.

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cubicle67
I don't have a side to take in this, but I think it should be pointed out that
scoopon have a real business that's been going some time and seems to be
reasonably profitable.

The name thing seems a bit underhanded, but I think it's disingenuous to
simply label them domain squatters

[Edit: I think I may have a bias against US companies intruding on Australian
turf. The whole ugg boot saga has left a pretty sour taste]

~~~
tjmc
Agreed. My wife's business recently did a deal on Scoopon and they were great
to deal with. What a pity that they've resorted to gazumping a competitor for
their trademark and domain here. Totally unnecessary and disappointing.

~~~
khafra
Tangentially, I was astounded and gratified to find out that "gazumping" is a
real word: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazumping>

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cletus
This is an interesting can of worms and a lesson in being proactive about
securing your trademarks and domain names in other jurisdictions whether you
intend to launch there or not.

Despite the fact that Scoopon is arguably a real business this really is a
domain squatting case. After all Groupon has nothing to do with their business
or branding. Registering the trademark and the domain name was preemptive and
is leverage to get bought out. I don't really care if they are a real business
or not.

Speaking as an Australian, it is important that companies that operate in
Australia have a .com.au domain. It's not uncommon for me to tell someone my
address (gmail.com) and then find out later they'd tried to send it to
gmail.com.au.

I always thought it was a mistake by the UK to use .co.uk instead of .com.uk
for consistency reasons but having thought about it, I think it may make the
distinction clearer.

So what should Groupon do? Basically they should do what Google did in the UK.
For years Google didn't own the gmail name there so branded themselves as
googlemail.

By pressing on you're telling the other side that you're not reliant on them
giving up the name. It gives you bargaining power.

Suing them is a good idea too. It bleeds money they probably don't have (which
clearly Groupon does).

The worst thing Groupon could do is stall their activities waiting for a
resolution. Groupon is a time-sensitive business. There's nothing magical
about what they do and someone else can replicate it (as happened in Germany I
believe).

It would be risky to proceed under the brand name of Groupon however because
the trademark muddies the waters. There is the possibility that if Scoopon
successfully defend the trademark, Groupon will then be liable for damages for
infringing upon it.

Best bet: pick a new brand name, register the trademark and domain name and
proceed. Make the other side an offer with a time limit. If they decline, stop
talking to them. While this is happening simply proceed. There is
infrastructure that needs to be built regardless of the brand name (finding
offices, hiring salespeople and copy editors and so forth).

As you gain traction occasionally make them an offer for the name. As time
goes on LOWER the offer because by this point you've invested in your new
brand so the old one has less value.

At some point the squatters will either give up and sell or it simply won't
matter because you'll have built your business on a new brand.

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haribilalic
If Groupon is heavily localised, what benefit is there to consumer if it's the
official Groupon, the fake Groupon or another clone that's offering the deal,
other than the clones not being a "brand name"?

I'm assuming that any Groupon clones would be able to sell to businesses just
as well as the real Groupon.

~~~
pchristensen
The merchants in AU benefit from Groupon's worldwide brand and popularity. The
customers benefit from having the best merchants doing well-structured deals.
500 cities into their worldwide expansion, Groupon has done this better than
anyone.

Remember, the product being sold to businesses is a _large quantity_ of new
customers. Anyone can sell deals, but it takes a lot of money and organization
to move the needle. If Scoopon thinks they can do this, then more power to
them. But play fair.

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jamesaguilar
Note to self: If I ever start a company that secures significant VC funding,
immediately buy domains related to my company in all major markets and begin
securing trademarks as well.

~~~
haribilalic
It's not always as simple as registering a domain name on GoDaddy or a local
registrar though.

To register a .com.au domain name, you're required to have an Australian
Business Number (i.e. incorporate locally). It's easy to get one, but how many
other international domain names do you want to register that require extra
work?

~~~
ohashi
Some registrars specialize in this, SafeNames for example.

~~~
haribilalic
A company such as SafeNames is no guarantee though. They've been in trouble in
Australia before for registering domain names on behalf of foreign entities
that would not have been able to do so normally. In turn, any domains that
weren't compliant were deleted.

<http://www.auda.org.au/news-archive/auda-06122009/>

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robotkad
While I don't know all the details, it looks as if Groupon has gone about this
the wrong way.

auDA have a very clear stance against this kind of squatting (from
<http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2010-05/>);

 _a. Applicable Disputes. You are required to submit to a mandatory
administrative proceeding in the event that a third party (a "complainant")
asserts to the applicable Provider, in compliance with the Rules of Procedure
that:

(i) your domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a name [Note 1],
trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights; and

(ii) you have no rights or legitimate interests in respect of the domain name
[Note 2]; and

(iii) your domain name has been registered or subsequently used in bad faith._

~~~
jellicle
Ok, do tell: Please describe the name (Australian personal or business name)
that Groupon USA has rights in, to which the groupon.com.au domain is
confusingly similar.

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iwwr
Domain squatters may not be OK, but identical business models are just another
legitimate challenge (business models can't be patented). They need boots on
the ground and it may not be possible for Groupon to physically get there
before the competition. Either way, it's good for the end user, who will go
from zero to several choices practically over night. It also prevents Groupon
from becoming a monopoly.

~~~
nedwin
There are multiple Groupon "clones" on the ground in Australia, a few doing
some fairly big numbers. Groupon have acquired one of the biggest (if my
sources are correct) in JumpOnIt.com.au.

Scoopons behaviour is pretty low IMHO. Registering not only the domain name
groupon.com.au but also the company name and the trademark?

~~~
scotty
No. It was LivingSocial who invested $5 million on JumpOnIt, which is one of
the larger group buy site. LivingSocial themselves took funding from Amazon.

Scoopon (and the guys behind Scoopon and CatchOfTheDays.com.au) also
registered other domain names such as Woot.com.au and DealExtreme.com.au. So I
think it's a pretty trivial squatting case.

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veb
$286,000 bucks for registering a domain name, I'd so take it. In fact, that
makes me want to start up domain squatting... but that's a dick move.

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MichaelApproved
_none being more sinister than Nopuorg_

If they think Nopuorg is sinister, why give them a direct link and not even
include rel="nofollow" Seems like it would help Nopuorg more than it hurts.

Edit: Have you read Nopuorg's About page? It's ridiculous
<http://www.nopuorg.com/about>

_Nopuorg was effectively launched in 1981 when its visionary founder, Mason
Andrews, was fetally conceived._

and

 _Realizing at a young age that he was a Social Media Prodigy, Mason further
self-initiated his education by achieving a Bachelor of Arts Degree from
Basilisk-Online Preparatory Web-Academy._

Edit 2: Reading more based on ceejayoz's reply I see the whole site is an
awful spoof on the daily deals concept. When you try and buy it asks for your
SS#. Makes sense now why they link directly to it.

Am I the only one that thinks it's a lame joke?

~~~
pchristensen
It is one of the joke sites Groupon has made. Andrew Mason, and Groupon as a
whole, loves jokes and pranks.

Two of my favorite Groupon jokes:

Groupoupon (<http://www.groupoupon.com/>), a tease at the Gilt Group luxury
sales. NOTE: you MUST try to buy one of the items. Hilarity will ensue.

The monkey rental deal ([http://www.groupon.com/chicago/deals/rent-a-monkey-
for-a-wee...](http://www.groupon.com/chicago/deals/rent-a-monkey-for-a-
week-49)). NOTE: you MUST watch the video. Hilarity will ensue.

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smcl
There's a comment which suggested that this happened in "England" (the UK,
grrr) but the roles were reversed and Groupon did this to a local competitor.
Does anyone know anything about this?

Quote: "and this was after you did the same thing to some poor guy in
england."

~~~
fbnt
He's probably referring at the technique they've used to get the groupon.com
domain from a guy living up in UK. This guy bought groupon.com with the
intention of building a group coupon business. While he was sitting on it, the
real groupon guys built the real thing and registered the trademark in US
(which, somehow, extends to the UK) and told the poor english guy to either
take 250k for the domain or prepare to be sued. He accepted the money and
everyone was happy.

~~~
chunkbot
If only he had taken Groupon equity; he'd be a multi-millionaire. Does anyone
know if the owner of the groupon.com domain had such an offer?

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aik
Pretty sad. I have enjoyed using Scoopon for the past few months and I'm
disappointed by their behavior here. Though I'm not justifying their behavior
with this statement, it's understandable that 300k isn't biting. I have no
doubt that they'll be much happier with you out as long as possible.

Another competitor, and one I've been even more impressed by, is
ourdeal.com.au. You've definitely got some competition here. Good luck!

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mahmud
9MSN and Microsoft are partnering to launch Cudo:

<http://cudo.com.au/ConfirmUser>

~~~
cubicle67
which has one of the most annoying entry screens ever. It forces to you create
an account before you can even see what the site it about

~~~
awa
Really, I was able to click on the cudo logo and it redirected me to today's
deal in sydney at <http://cudo.com.au/sydney> . I guess you can try entering
other cities names and it should redirect to deals in those cities. This is
very similar to Groupon (and infact a tad easier)

~~~
Nick_C
I couldn't. It wanted my email address to go any further. I quit then.

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yycom
So, maybe the name doesn't matter so much as long as it's distinct per-market?
It's happened long before the internet and probably has nothing to do with
trademarks, and more to do with local marketing.

Case in point: "groupon" wouldn't work as well here in AU because "coupons"
aren't a big thing. (The concept maybe, the word, no).

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amccloud
What's wrong with using au.groupon.com?

~~~
scotty
It's much more than just the domain name in this case, but also trademark and
registered business name. Basically Groupon might not be able to operate as
"Groupon" in Australia, regardless whichever domain name it uses.

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lwat
As an Australian all I want to say is... just use the .com address. Call the
company 'groupon.com' Advertise the .com. It will work!

~~~
gstar
Australians are pretty apt to type <business>.com.au - it'd be a risky trading
environment when that address belonged to one of your competitors and seemed
legitimate.

~~~
josephcooney
Apt to type .com.au - Really? As a red-blooded Australian I can't recall the
last time I typed .com.au. Sometimes I look at it as an indicator for
e-commerce purposes, but it doesn't count for much, at least to me.

