
Magdalen Oxford gets rejection letter from student - soitgoes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-16604050
======
gmac
Some of this is fair criticism of Oxbridge, some not so much.

The 'grand formal settings' for interviews are the buildings most of the
colleges have -- and one of things that make them such incredible places to
live and work. Yes, you could erect a small, casual prefab to conduct your
interviews, but that would be kind of dishonest.

On the other hand, Oxbridge probably is unhealthily attached to some of its
weird old traditions (gowns, Latin, port, etc.). These things also vary widely
between the colleges -- but in ways that are hard to find out unless you are
(or you know someone who is) on the inside.

~~~
amirmc
> _Oxbridge probably is unhealthily attached..._

What's unhealthy/weird about it? I've been at several Universities and each of
them has their own 'traditions'. Also, I wouldn't really call the examples you
gave as 'oxbridge traditions' (you're right that things vary a lot by
college).

~~~
gmac
I'm thinking of things like this --

* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_dress_of_the_Universit...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_dress_of_the_University_of_Oxford#Subfusc)

* [http://ask.metafilter.com/59198/Why-do-students-at-Oxford-Un...](http://ask.metafilter.com/59198/Why-do-students-at-Oxford-University-wear-carnations-to-exams)

* "If the Proctors consider you not to be dressed correctly they reserve the right to refuse you entry. Any infringements involve the Praelector in paying a fine of a bottle of Port!" (<http://www.clare.cam.ac.uk/Graduation-2011/>)

\-- which serve no obvious purpose, but can potentially make people feel that
Oxbridge students are strange and different (and maybe posh or snobbish), and
not the kind of people they'd like to be around or become.

I'm not saying this is always an easy call, though. Once you're there, a bit
of harmless tradition can of course be fun.

~~~
amirmc
I can see your point but academic dress is used at many institutions. The only
difference here seems to be there are more occasions in Oxbridge where people
are required to wear it.

You also say _...but can potentially make people feel that Oxbridge students
are strange and different..._ , which I completely understand. However, I get
the impression that Oxbridge gets a lot of attention and people almost _look_
for the idiosyncrasies so they can point them out. I've never heard of anyone
being fined bottles of port at Cambridge but I wouldn't be surprised if there
were such rule written down somewhere in the last 800 years. It's akin to
strange rules like commoners not being allowed to drive sheep through London.
It might still be illegal but no-one pays it any attention (nor can they be
bothered to repeal it).[1]

(Disclaimer: Grad school at Cambridge)

[1] I have no idea if that's true and I've heard variations that involve tolls
and geese. My point is that although such outdated laws exist, no-one really
goes looking for them.

------
tmcdonald
As someone who went through the Oxford interview process this year (and rather
surprisingly received an offer) I do wonder exactly what she was expecting
when she applied to Oxford. For me part of the attraction (aside from the
academical reputation) was the history and, it has to be said, rather grand
buildings.

It's also worth pointing out that this was sent on December 10th, _before_ any
replies from the university, meaning that she didn't actually have an offer to
reject, it was technically a withdrawal of her application, and probably only
preempted a rejection letter from the university.

Personally, while I didn't enjoy the interview experience as a whole (much of
the conversation was awkward, and having to wait 12 hours while you 'might'
get called for another interview is incredibly stressful) I really enjoyed the
interviews I had - the opportunity to discuss aspects of CS/Maths with experts
in the field, particularly talking about areas that interest me is something
I've not really had chance to experience through the UK education system -
although I can't say I had any of my interviews in 'grand formal settings',
just the tutors offices.

For those interested in the full text of the 'letter', it can be found here
[1], as kindly posted to the 2012 Oxford Applicants group on FB by one of her
friends who did get an offer.

[1]:
[http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5766/ellylawoxfordemailco...](http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/5766/ellylawoxfordemailcopy.jpg)

------
evilmoo
Or, to paraphrase her letter.

"Dear University,

I realised 10 microseconds after leaving the admissions interview that I have
no chance in gaining admission to your establishments.

In the age old tradition of it being better to be the dumper, than the dumpee,
I'm going to try and make myself feel a bit better by 'rejecting you'.

I'm sure you don't care one jot about this letter, but if I circulate it to my
friends on facebook, I might get my 15minutes of fame.

I wonder if any other establishments will read this and accept me?

Sincerely.... "

~~~
JustThisOnePost
the full of shit girl

------
djhworld
It makes me angry that this even got into the news.

Getting into Oxford is a difficult process and not many make it. Those that do
have been selected based on merit, obviously she did not meet what the
admissions tutors were looking for.

It's childish that she replied with such a letter to be honest, she just
sounds like a spoiled child throwing her toys out of the pram.

~~~
amirmc
I thought the last quote was a little odd. _"Being a successful student should
depend on the student, not on whether or not a couple of academics have deemed
you to shine in a twenty minute interview."_

I'm not sure what system she would propose instead.

Edit: Seems a few people don't like the above comment. The application process
anywhere will take into account grades, supporting statements, references etc.
Not everywhere will do interviews but for those that do, it'll (presumably) be
an additional point in all of this.

~~~
test624
In many countries university admissions depend only on test scores.

The only exception are the winners of nationwide competitions, who can enter
any university they choose.

~~~
swombat
That's a system that Oxford explicitly rejects. They even give a test for
science candidates, and then don't really care about the results (they're just
there to check that you're not completely ignorant).

Oxford selects for potential, not for test results. How do they judge that
potential? Well, they have developed detectors which are really advanced,
carefully calibrated, extremely sensitive and incredibly difficult to game.

Those detectors come in the form of "professors" who have been teaching for
20+ years and know how to judge a student's potential from a 20 minute
interview.

Disclaimer: I went to Oxford.

~~~
mstevens
What evidence is there for the quality of these "detectors"?

~~~
swombat
The incredible quality of people that study there, and of the people that come
out of it.

~~~
mstevens
I'm just generally very suspicious of any "expert judges situation by magical
intuition" story.

I do generally have a good opinion of Oxbridge, despite the fact they turned
me down :)

------
JustThisOnePost
As a current graduate student at Oxford Uni (CS) I can only feel sorry for
this girl. While the interview process is really serious (how else should it
be?) I doubt that in any way she was treated differently in a negative way.

People know that Oxford and Cambridge have a social status to defend and
maintain, as well as traditions that have been carried for hundreds of years,
that need not to be change - or will be changed, because a goofy looking teen
says so.

And just for the sake of demonstrating how full of shit this girl is have a
look at this letter (originally from reddit) where an almost identical letter
was used for a _job_ application. The only thing this girl did was ammend it
to be address at an academic institution.

\----

Herbert A. Millington Chair – Search Committee 412A Clarkson Hall, Whitson
University College Hill, MA 34109

Dear Professor Millington,

Thank you for your letter of March 16. After careful consideration, I regret
to inform you that I am unable to accept your refusal to offer me an assistant
professor position in your department.

This year I have been particularly fortunate in receiving an unusually large
number of rejection letters. With such a varied and promising field of
candidates, it is impossible for me to accept all refusals.

Despite Whitson’s outstanding qualifications and previous experience in
rejecting applicants, I find that your rejection does not meet my needs at
this time. Therefore, I will assume the position of assistant professor in
your department this August. I look forward to seeing you then.

Best of luck in rejecting future applicants.

Sincerely, Chris L. Jensen

\-----

~~~
paganel
> People know that Oxford and Cambridge have a social status to defend and
> maintain

Isn't a school supposed to be teaching you things? What's "respecting" a
social status got to do with anything school-related whatsoever? And anyway, I
wish those Oxford guys had "respected" Giordano Bruno when they had the
chance.

------
adaml_623
19 yo writes funny letter. It's not much of a story. The sad thing is the BBC
interviewing her because they heard about it.

She does have a point about Oxbridge being very traditional and it's great
that she recognised that it wouldn't suit her. Many students go with the
'best' university they can get into even if they are not appropriate for them.

------
jabkobob
I'm amazed how many people actually complain about that funny letter. To me
this proves just how right she is. Apparently making fun of Oxford is off-
limits for some...

