

Discover Meteor - ninthfrank07
http://www.discovermeteor.com/

======
richardofyork
I have read the beta release of the book in its entirety. I do not know the
book's authors personally, so I can give an unbiased assessment of the book
and answer specific questions about the book.

The Crux of the Matter:

Coming from Node.js/Backbone.js/Express.js, I was pleasantly shocked and
surprisingly inspired by how pleasurable and productive it is to develop with
Meteor. I am not sure I feel this way about any other web-dev technology
besides jQuery. Meteor is so awesome that it makes the book easy to get
through and fun to learn from (the book is a web app, a book, and a tutorial
in one; it is more than just a book, hence my use of the word “use” instead of
“read”).

The book covers most of the big Meteor concepts with example code and it
guides you along as you build the Microscope web app—a "real world"
application you can deploy and actually use. You will learn so much and get
through the book so quickly that you will want to develop your own web app
with Meteor in an instant. Be warned: You will be giddy with excitement at how
easy it is to get stuff done with Meteor. Using Meteor is analogous to using
an iPhone for the first time after using one of those "smartphones" [1] that
were available prior to the launch of the iPhone.

The alternative to using this book is to learn Meteor by painstakingly
browsing and reading the thorough (but not necessarily logically organized for
structured learning) Meteor docs. Forget finding a proper "Getting Started
with Meteor" tutorial; they are outdated and lack depth. The book summarizes
some of the important Meteor concepts in a logical, succinct, and exemplary
manner, with hands-on implementation.

There are some specific Meteor core concepts that the book either doesn't
cover or only discusses briefly, like eJSON, Deps, Custom Reactivity, and
cursor.observe (similar to Backbone's model.on events). But fortunately, Chris
Maher does an excellent job covering these topics in depth on EventedMind.com
[2]. Therefore, I highly recommend the book along with frequent visits to
EventedMind.com to get a thorough understanding of Meteor.js, so you can
confidently start building Meteor apps straightaway.

It is worth noting that the book's format (a web app with comments, videos,
frequent updates, and the main Microscope tutorial, in addition to PDF and
eBook copies of the book) is groundbreaking and must be celebrated. Every book
on any web development topic should be published in this manner. Authors take
note.

Background: I am the dude blogging at <http://javascriptissexy.com/> and I am
a Frontend Developer (JavaScript Guru). Incidentally, I will likely write a
detailed blog post about Meteor ("How to Learn Meteor Properly," perhaps) in a
few weeks, after I develop my first Meteor app.

[1] [http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/sanyo-
katana-6600-black/...](http://reviews.cnet.com/cell-phones/sanyo-
katana-6600-black/4505-6454_7-31967588.html)

[2] <http://www.eventedmind.com/>

~~~
CorySimmons
I, too, was lucky enough to get in on the preview and read most of the book.
I've read a couple of these books and this one takes the cake. It's huge, very
thorough, and incredibly easy to follow along.

If you're thinking about getting into Meteor, you should definitely grab a
copy. It's a really easy read that teaches you a lot.

Oh, and Meteor is sexy, I'm glad you're a fan Richard. I'm a big fan of your
site and can't wait to see you get engulf in the Meteor hysteria. :)

~~~
richardofyork
I am glad to hear you are a fan of the blog, Cory. I am somewhat surprised you
are all over Meteor already :), and you probably think the same thing of me :)

There will be Meteor hysteria for sure, but I don't know if it will happen so
soon, although this book will help quite a bit.

~~~
laughfactory
Another huge fan of your blog, Richard. Your blog represents one of the single
best locations on the web for excellent road maps for learning web
development. It is _immensely_ helpful to go through the material that you've
already vetted rather than waste time and energy finding and trying the
plethora of books, tutorials, videos, sites, etc. For beginners it's
incredibly overwhelming but your site helps show us the path and put us on it.
It's still a lot of work, but at least we feel that as long as we follow your
recommendations we'll make steady progress toward our goal of becoming Web
Engineers. I can't wait to read your upcoming post about Meteor!

~~~
richardofyork
Man, you guys are making me feel warm and fuzzy. I had no idea some followers
of my blog are HN regulars.

Thanks for the wonderful compliment and encouragement, laughfactory. I am very
happy that my blog is making a difference. Good luck with your learning.

------
wasd
In case anyone is wondering, Meteor (<http://meteor.com/>) is a web framework
which promises to make building real time web apps very easy. Its written in
javascript and uses the node.js run time but doesn't play nicely with npm
packages. Up until a recent version, it had no support but now you can write a
wrapper to use a specific package.

Discover Meteor (formally known as "The Meteor Book") is a book that teaches
how to build a social news reader called Microscope, a simplified version of
Telescope (Show HN: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4840032>).

~~~
sgdesign
Author here. Thanks for the summary! Just a small clarification: the book
doesn't teach you how to build Telescope, it teaches you how to build _Micro_
scope, a simplified version of Telescope that we built specifically for the
book.

Microscope's code is a lot cleaner than Telescope's, and is also open-source:
<http://github.com/DiscoverMeteor/Microscope>

~~~
wasd
Thanks for the clarification. I'll update my comment.

------
adhipg
A quick observation: 14+ chapters in the book and nothing on testing? At
least, I did not find anything that talked about it.

Is it because there are no standards defined about testing Meteor apps or is
Meteor being presented as a framework that does not need testing (hence,
should not be used in production)?

~~~
tmeasday
It's the first reason. There's nothing built-in to Meteor right now to help
you test and although some people are starting to figure out good ways to do
it as we speak, we feel like the dust hasn't really settled on the best way to
do testing in Meteor.

As soon as we feel we've got a good answer for it we'll include something in
the book to point people in the right direction.

------
systemtrigger
This looks fantastic. I am considering a purchase. Just curious, why didn't
you use meteor to make discovermeteor.com?

~~~
arunoda
meteor is not to build static web sites. Its for build Single Page Apps.

~~~
systemtrigger
A static page is the simplest form of website. It is trivial to build a static
page using Meteor. I hoped one of the authors would tell us why they chose not
to dogfood on the marketing page for a book on Meteor.

~~~
joshschreuder
Probably because it's like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. A marketing
page like this doesn't require any realtime updates.

~~~
thejosh
Exactly. Using the best tool for the job.

~~~
sgdesign
Exactly. We used Middleman (<http://middlemanapp.com>) for the landing page
and it worked great. All the data on the landing page comes from a few YAML
page, and it even lets us auto-generate special pages for discount codes. I
strongly recommend it for any kind of static site.

------
rglover
Watched some of the videos (bought the second package)/read a chapter or two
and wow. So much stuff in here that's been a pain to figure out via scattered
posts and confusing docs. Go pick this up if you want to learn Meteor.

~~~
laughfactory
I've just finished chapters 1-3, and so far I agree: It's a concise guide to
Meteor.

------
crisnoble
I wish that beautiful 3-D rendered copy existed in real life. That cover is
too beautiful not to be sitting on my desk.

It is a truly nice touch to see a technical book sweat the design details.

~~~
sgdesign
Right now Meteor is changing so fast that a paper edition didn't really make
sense (the online edition will be kept up to date, of course).

But once Meteor stabilizes at 1.0 we'll consider a printed version. And if we
do this, we'll also provide a discount for people who have already bought the
digital edition.

~~~
crisnoble
How about a printed poster? It's just so damn pretty.

------
colemorrison
Will this be updated to reflect changes to Meteor? So, when it hits 1.0, will
the book be updated?

~~~
sgdesign
Yes, we'll keep the book up to date as Meteor evolves.

------
enduser
I find the "See the packages" button to be confusing. I clicked on it just to
see what would happen. As a newcomer to the page, I had no idea that you'd be
selling the book in "packages" and assumed that "packages" was referring to
software packages (i.e. libraries, etc.). My first reaction was literally "how
do I get the book?" or "how do I find out more about the book?".

~~~
sgdesign
Thanks for the feedback, I'm not that happy with "see the packages" either so
I'll probably follow your advice.

------
ajob367
So, I have enough money but I can't pay for this book. I live somewhere in SE
Asia and I don't have any means to pay for the book. I'm not 18 yet and don't
have a credit card. None of my parents/relatives have a credit card that can
be used internationally or for online purchases. The government is very strict
about money laundering and getting a credit card is a real pain, which my
parents didn't want to endure. Trust me, I really want want to purchase the
book but I can't.

I would really appreciate If the authors could send me a copy of the book at
this email: ajob367@gmail.com I'll surely pay you once I have a credit card.
:)

~~~
odigity
Attention authors:

<http://bitcoin.org/en/>

------
EricMuller22
I am so tired of the Goldilocks pricing model.

~~~
boffo9
It works. For the authors anyway. For poor developers like me it blows.

------
prezjordan
Currently working through John Resig's "Secrets of the JavaScript Ninja," but
_as soon_ as I finish that I'm totally buying this. The sample chapter looks
fantastic! Congrats on finishing the book, guys.

------
jeffffff
as a backend engineer the publish/subscribe part of this seems like a
scalability nightmare. is anyone using the publish/subscribe features on a
large site with lots of instances?

------
charlejshort
This book is exactly what I wanted. But the thing I don't like about Meteor;
the barriers to contemporary web development drop like a rock. The problems
that could keep me employed with other frameworks are largely solved.

Maybe this will raise the bar into a whole new level of product. But I'm not
sure I want to spread the news; its more like something I'd rather keep for
myself as a competitive advantage.

~~~
tvon
A wee bit over the top there.

------
curiouslearn
What are pre-requisites for understanding the book? For example, does one need
to know Handlebars functionality, or does the book introduce them in such a
way that one can pick up the required knowledge as one is reading the book.
Also, does one need to be a Javascript guru, or is a basic understanding of
Javascript sufficient to get started?

~~~
sgdesign
A basic understanding of JavaScript is enough. And whenever we use any funky
js syntax (which doesn't happen a lot) we try to explain it.

~~~
curiouslearn
Thanks Sacha. I purchased the book and am really enjoying it. Thanks to you
and Tom for writing the book. I am at the beginning of the Collections
chapter. Unfortunately, for some reason, the Server-Client communication is
not working (collection inserts using mongo console, do not show up in the
browser console and vice-versa). I have not yet removed autopublish. Anyhow,
will try to explore it further.

------
arunoda
This book is awesome. I'm following through the chapter. This book contains
the real life experience.

You can't get it from reading the docs. So this is the best way to get started
with Meteor. And price is too high but its worthy.

+1 for the book as a meteor webapp.

------
pablasso
I love that they're including a repository. Looking at the code history is the
best way to learn.

------
cirotix
If there any upgrade pathes between the plans? Let say that I buy the starter
plan, like the content and want to buy the plan with the videos. Should I pay
the full price?

~~~
sgdesign
Yes, you'll be able to upgrade. So the rational decision would be buying the
cheapest plan and upgrading later. I just hope you're not rational… :)

~~~
cirotix
Unfortunately I am :-) Thank you for the reply. Actually you should not fear
rational people: if your content is good enough they will upgrade!

------
susi22
How many pages does the book have? Even with the discount: $30 is way too much
for a tech book IMO. Maybe $20 would be doable.

~~~
aasarava
If the information in the book (regardless of page count) gives you insight
into a new technology that you can use to expand your career, is $30 really
too much? If you're a contractor billing at market rates in SF, $30 is one-
third to one-fifth of a single hour's income.

Time to start valuing books based on knowledge contained rather than paper
weight.

~~~
laughfactory
_IF_ the information contained is proven to be valuable and well-expressed
than yes, I agree, $39 (or even $99 or whatever) is totally worth it when the
expertise derived pays off. BUT, for an unknown quantity it's still steep.
There are plenty of poorly written tech books not really worth the "paper"
they're printed on. So asking people to pony-up that kind of money is a little
shocking. It might be better to provide (as they have) a sample chapter, and
then split the book in parts. Then each part could be $X (say, $12?) which
allows people to pay a smaller amount, ascertain the value the book provides
and then shell out the full amount.

People are price-sensitive. Their expectations--derived from pricing observed
for similar books--is that a book's "retail" price would be somewhere between
$20-$30. A book that's nearly $40 is almost unheard of. Additionally, this is
especially true for "self-published" books. We expect them to be cheaper
because their distribution/production costs are cheaper (or at least we
perceive them to be cheaper) and we acknowledge that often self-published
books don't have expensive, but quality-assuring, intermediates like editors.
In other words, a self-published book is a much greater unknown quantity than
one from a publisher which has been edited etc. Plenty of books from
publishers suck, but an even greater proportion of self-published books suck.

~~~
scott_s
Asking $30 for a book is shocking? I expect to pay at least that for a good
technical book. This is a book I paid $60 for: [http://www.amazon.com/Linux-
Programming-Interface-System-Han...](http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Programming-
Interface-System-Handbook/dp/1593272200) I did so because the information in
it is relevant to my job, it's unlikely to change in a significant way over
the next decade, and I was tired of not having a single place to look up Linux
systems stuff.

If I was a web developer using Meteor, I imagine I would come to a similar
conclusion about this book - with the exception that because it's online, the
authors can update it over time.

~~~
ruswick
" _Asking $30 for a book is shocking?_ "

Where did you get that? He explicitly said that "if the information contained
is proven to be valuable and well-expressed than yes, I agree, $39 (or even
$99 or whatever) is totally worth it." He literally said the exact opposite of
what you are alleging that he said. _Literally._

His shock was in regards to the fact that the offer no sample chapter (which
they probably should).

~~~
scott_s
I got it from: "So asking people to pony-up that kind of money is a little
shocking."

I was confused by his phrasing. I thought he meant it was an unknown quantity
because he had not read it.

~~~
laughfactory
Now I'm getting confused. I agree that it was an unknown quantity before I
began reading it.

The main point I was attempting to make is that some of those (perhaps a very
small minority) interested in learning Meteor operate on _very_ tight budgets.
On a good month I get a $50 "allowance." Most months I don't get an allowance.
This month my wife agreed to take the cost of the Discover Meteor book out of
our grocery budget. So when things are that tight, $30 or $40 is a lot to
swing. It's roughly 10% of our grocery budget (for context).

For those who make their living as web developers and have sufficient
disposable income, I'm sure the asking price of $39 isn't a problem.

------
bsbechtel
I'm new to Meteor, and just briefly scanned the homepage, but does it offer
pre-built admin, same as Ruby and Django?

------
drorweiss
Why not offer a "free-plan" as well? In early stages what frameworks need the
most is adoption.

------
yoshyosh
How does meteor compare to ember js?

~~~
laughfactory
I'm definitely new at both, but I'll give you the newbie perspective.

Ember is a front-end framework which allows you to use whatever back-end you
feel like to feed it. E.g., you could use Ember with Node, Rails, Django, etc.

Meteor is the whole package: front and back-end with a lot of glue built in
that makes coordinating front and back-end easier.

At least that's the impression I get. I'm also very impressed by Ember--though
it, like Meteor, is challenging to learn due to the dearth of learning
materials.

This book is the second (as far as I know) Meteor book, and there's only one
book I'm aware of available for Ember (Master Space and Time with Javascript:
Ember).

------
edwardunknown
Just browsing through it, definitely worth $30 to me. Well written and
explains Meteor perfectly for retards like myself.

So tmeasday, now that you're not busy any chance of fixing accounts-anonymous?

~~~
tmeasday
Thanks!

"Now that you're not busy" ... haha I wish! (or maybe not).

I'll put it on my todo list though, sure..

