
Singapore Rising: The Plot to Be the Next Big Tech Hub - user_235711
http://recode.net/2015/06/16/singapore-rising-the-plot-to-be-the-next-big-tech-hub/
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themeek
Expect more "Singapore Rising", "Philippines Rising", "Taiwan Rising",
"Thailand Rising", etc stories in future.

In a bid to contain China's rise into a world power and global superpower
rival, the US is orchestrating a Trans-Pacific Partnership between China's
neighbors which excludes it and a mutual defense network in the Asia-Pacific
Arena (starting with Japan) similar to NATO - again one which excludes China.

Another part of this bid is that the US is heavily invested in getting Asian
nations (especially India) to rise in tandem with China rather than as
economic satellites.

Whether the US succeeds in containing China with these and other tactics it is
inevitable that the Asia Pacific will 'rise' as these individual nations cross
into modern, consumer-style economies. Soon, too, will the majority of world
trade will be passing through these waters. Singapore is rising because there
is a rising tide in the Asia Pacific. A rising tide lifts all ships.

~~~
WoMaameTwe
Everyone knows the US is sucking China's dick but the US is the most versatile
country in the world at this point in time. Period.

Singapore is just an exploiter's market only the rich are making the real
cuts.

~~~
rorykoehler
This is a global pattern and not unique to Sinagpore.

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tathastu
I worked (and studied) in Singapore for a while. As an engineer for a tech
company, you get paid very little compared to cost of living.

In my graduating class, most EE+CS folks I know who are still in Singapore
became bankers, government employees or consultants. Most engineering talent
left because the salaries were barely enough to pay rent.

Edit: spelling

~~~
notthetup
Things are changing quite a bit, especially in IT and Startup world. Engineers
are being paid decent salaries, although not as much as the bankers, enough to
live happily in Singapore.

~~~
rorykoehler
Engineers get paid very little. My Singaporean brother-in-law thought I has
lost my mind when I decided to become an Software Engineer after my last
startup. No money in it in Singapore. The reason being that tons of
Indians/non-Singaporean SE Asians come to Singapore and take any work they can
get at any price. If you are an especially good engineer and prove your worth
then this could be different but for the average engineer it's tough.

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adventured
It's an interesting question, exactly what scale of services Singapore can
support without liberalizing on speech, sexuality, et al.

For example, you could never build and operate Twitter, Facebook, Reddit,
Imgur, Instagram, Tinder, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Google, Yahoo, Stack Exchange,
Quora, eBay or Pinterest there.

~~~
twic
I suspect you could - as long as you didn't let Singaporeans use them.

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meatysnapper
Anybody remember when Singapore had a government mandate out for people to be
more "creative"?

Also, pity about the cost of alcohol. At least if alcohol was cheaper non-
liberalized tech companies could go there assured of happy workers.

~~~
thoward
> mandate out for people to be more "creative"

A tough sell in a place where the possession of even a tiny amount of
marijuana is punishable by caning and long imprisonment.

~~~
amazon_not
Pray tell, what does drug usage have to do with creativity?

~~~
thoward
Not exactly my point, and I won't go there. I don't know enough about drugs to
comment.

Smart, creative people are, by and large, allergic to authoritarianism.
Draconian rules around possession of soft drugs like cannabis are useful
proxies for measuring a state's authoritarianism.

~~~
twic
In Singapore's case, we don't need proxies - we can look directly at how the
authorities respond to speech which tests the boundaries of dissent and taboo.
Which they generally do with rapid and thorough censorship.

One of the things i found interesting about Singapore's censorship is that
it's completely open. It is not itself secret, or a taboo subject. When i was
there, i stumbled across an exhibition by local artists that was all about a
major obscenity/censorship case in the 1980s that had had a big impact on the
artistic community. The exhibition was in a public gallery, and i think had
even been supported with public funds.

~~~
ValentineC
There's a lot of self-censorship going on from both Singapore's journalists
and its people [1], mostly because there's a culture of fear.

Have a look at this recent case where a teen blogger was jailed for making
offensive remarks against Christianity, and for circulating obscene imagery.
[2]

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OB_marker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OB_marker)

[2] [http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/teen-
blogger-a...](http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/teen-blogger-amos-
yee/1841236.html)

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simonebrunozzi
I lived in Singapore for 2.5 years. The single most important reason for me to
leave was... Are you ready to laugh at me? The weather.

Not just the weather per se, but all that follows. No outdoor activities
(unless you want to profusely sweat), no strolling around (unless you are ok
with sweating), etc.

Other than that, Singapore is a great place and rapidly rising.

Some aspects of how the government handle things might be debatable, but the
results are way better than in any other "free democracy". And reality is that
democracies are not what we think they are. They're not free, and money rules.

~~~
hitekker
Regarding the weather: I think at some point your body gives in and then it
becomes a new normal.

In my experience I got use to walking around with long pants on... Still sucks
though!

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rorykoehler
If Singapore wants to become the next big tech hub it needs a cultural shift
that encourages more outside the box thinking. There are moves in the right
direction in the education sector but Singapore on a whole being very
hierarchical is better at churning out workers rather than creative leaders.
If they do make the switch to creativity they will be a force as the level of
quality expected in work is high and they have a culture of competition. As it
stands traditional industries such as finance are more prestigious and well
paying and are draining the talent pool.

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contingencies
Meh, life's too short to mince words so here's my opinion FWIW.

Singapore competes solely with South Korea for the most boring country in Asia
title.

Proven totalitarian government? Check. Omnipresent surveillance? Check.
Arguably virtually exists only due to US foreign policy? Check. Horrendous
drug policy involving death? Check. Ridiculously straight-edge society of a
virtually caste nature involving 90% nine-to-fivers with no moral compass or
interests outside work? Check.

Somehow given the facts I don't see flocks of free thinking musicians, artists
or technologists settling there any time soon. Yes, it can be done. No, it's
not very pleasant.

For places in Southeast Asia with _real_ formative startup communities with
the psychology and potential co-founders to match, try Vietnam (either Hanoi
or Saigon) or Thailand (Chiang Mai or Bangkok). There have been runaway
successes from Sri Lanka (London Stock Exchange runs on a gutsy core market
rewrite done by a Sri Lankan startup) and India too, though I'm less convinced
in their communities so far.

Smiles, 15 year Asia resident. (Currently in Berlin - anyone wanna meet up?)

~~~
viewer5
> no moral compass

That seems like a pretty bold claim, what's that referring to?

~~~
contingencies
It's not a claim, it's an opinion. You're welcome to your own. However, one
could easily argue it's basically a job requirement to work in international
banking, the defense industry, management-level on shipping, construction,
Indonesian agriculture, regional telecommunications with a heavy surveillance
bent, or pretty much any other industry of any size in Singapore.

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wooyi
Singapore had some success in the consumer electronics field with Creative
(remember the Sound Blaster?). There is Razor, whose CEO is Singaporean, but
the company isn't based there.

Regionally, Singapore is already a tech hub and will continue to dominant that
region. But I doubt it will ever threaten the Valley or even places like NY or
LA.

~~~
theuri
There isn't as much home-grown tech innovation / spirit of disruption like you
get in places that have a fundamentally irreverent culture that thrives on
disrupting the norm and status quo - like parts of the US, China and Israel.
It's all big gov, top-down initiatives in Singapore for now, until you get
kids coming out of school there that feel entrepreneurship and risk taking is
a better route than the safer and more respectable route of high-paying,
stable government jobs.

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OneOneOneOne
I had spent over a month in Singapore for work around 2010 and really enjoyed
it. Now married with young kids I wonder how things would be. Anyone have any
experience with this? I am wondering with respect to prejudice and safety. My
wife and kids are fair skinned blondes.

~~~
GordonS
I'm blond, as is my daughter. Me, my daughter and wife are all _very_ (too!)
white.

I love Singapore and have visited several times over the past few years, and
never once have I had the slightest concern for my/our safety or had even the
slightest feeling that we stood out, even when visiting the less visited
parts; Singapore is just so culturally and racially diverse I think you'd have
to really try to stand out!

~~~
twic
I know a bunch of European ex-pats in Singapore, and one thing they all bang
on about is how safe it feels. Women feeling perfectly safe walking about on
their own at night, that sort of thing.

I don't to what extent that is rooted in fact, and to what extent it's really
about not having a scaremongering media constantly telling you you're about to
get knifed, as we do back home.

~~~
GordonS
That's a good point - the media certainly plays a big role on our fears and
how we feel about safety, however irrational those fears may be.

Having said that, the very first time I went to Singapore was with work, and I
literally knew _nothing_ about the place, and yet instantly got a good vibe
from the walking around it - I can't say that about many other major cities.

Thinking back, I wonder if the lack of graffiti, chewing gum all over the
pavements and generally cleanliness that plague so many other cities has an
impact on the way we perceive safety and risk (Singapore is without question
the 'cleanest' city I've ever visited).

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Gys
There was a discussion on the SG startup scene two weeks ago. In general to me
it was not very positive.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9642665](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9642665)

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michaelochurch
I strongly doubt it. Singapore has interesting leadership that isn't afraid to
be controversial, but engineer salaries there are terrible. A senior engineer
in Singapore makes $47,000 according to Glassdoor (compare: $95k Chicago,
$113k NYC, $38k Budapest, $67k Berlin, and $124k San Francisco).

Chicago probably has the best salary/cost-of-living ratio and Budapest isn't
so bad because it's cheap. Singapore, on the other hand, has NYC-level rents
if you can't get into high-density housing.

It's not great for software engineers (compared to executives) anywhere but,
at least in the other cities I listed, there's a fighting chance of them
getting something beyond a college lifestyle.

If you don't have at least _some_ engineers making money and getting to call
shots-- I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that the current Valley culture
doesn't have enough of them, but it has some-- then you don't get innovation.
You get the same tired old ideas, sped along just slightly by a higher degree
of technical efficiency (the rising tide).

I'd love to be wrong about this, but I've interviewed with a couple of
Singapore companies in my life and the culture that I've seen is just not
progressive nor is it pro-technologist. It seems to still be a world where
businessmen call the shots-- but I'll admit: I don't live there. Given that it
was difficult to get anyone but a bank to pay for relocation (I became "cat
relo guy", for one place, because I mentioned that it'd cost $7k to move my
cats... that negotiation, predictably, fell through) I'm pretty sure I never
will.

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heyheyhey
> I became "cat relo guy", for one place, because I mentioned that it'd cost
> $7k to move my cats... that negotiation, predictably, fell through

How many cats do you have and why did it cost so much?

~~~
bduerst
I'm not them, but flying with animals is incredibly expensive, even after you
cover the vet reqs for the country. Cats are much harder than dogs to get
through customs, because cats can carry more communicable diseases.

