
We're auctioning off a chance for your kid to come to a YC dinner - pg
http://www.biddingforgood.com/auction/item/Item.action;jsessionid=WNDnv5zHrGioxBktnO4qdw**.app4?id=202802658
======
pg
Since there will no doubt be a lot of the predictable complaint that this
gives an advantage to the kids of people rich enough to buy it, I want to make
it clear that this auction is to fund scholarships to the Bing nursery school.
Since going to Bing helps kids a lot more than going to a YC dinner would,
it's a net win for parents with less money.

We knew when we decided to offer this item for auction that people would give
us grief about it. But we're happy to take the heat to give more kids the
opportunity to attend Bing.

~~~
swalkergibson
Do you feel that the concerns expressed are not legitimate? If attending Bing
is more beneficial than a YC dinner, why not make an unconditional donation to
Bing and then open up these dinners to teenagers willing to apply/write an
essay for them, regardless of ability to pay? It would have the added benefit
of self-selecting out those people whose parents think it is a good idea for
them to go to such a dinner and reserve it for only those who are interested.

Obviously, any donation to Bing is better than no donation to Bing, and the
reality is that it probably is a net win for the parents with less money, but
it seems like it could be even better refined and ensure that there are fewer
cheap-shots like in the thread below.

~~~
pg
I do make unconditional donations to Bing as well, and larger amounts than
this auction is likely to generate.

Yes, frankly, I feel like the concerns expressed here are a kind of moral
bikeshedding. What harm does it do if one rich kid gets to come to a YC
dinner?

It's too much trouble to armor oneself against cheap shots. People who want to
misunderstand you have an almost endless ability to do so, so you'd have to
devote correspondingly endless energy to replying.

~~~
moocowduckquack
One kid getting dinner is obviously no big deal, there is however something
percieved to be wrong with it being normal for the rich to buy access for
their kids to business opportunities. You are probably right that it is
massive overanalysis considering the subject, though at least it wasn't a free
lunch.

~~~
michaelochurch
_One kid getting dinner is obviously no big deal, there is however something
percieved to be wrong with it being normal for the rich to buy access for
their kids to business opportunities. You are probably right that it is
massive overanalysis considering the subject_

Correct. I don't think anyone here thinks Paul Graham is a bad man. I've never
met him, but he seems like a good person who didn't intend to become a
lightning rod. However, this was a dick move.

If they're going to give away spots at a YC dinner to teenagers-- and I think
that's a good idea-- then they should give them to winners of a computing,
math, or science competition. Or young people in the computing field who
overcame some disadvantage.

This just proves that Silicon Valley has nothing left that can't be sold. Even
the purr of a cat will eventually be metered and priced if these people can
find a way.

Let's assume that most people in YCombinator are among the best and the
brightest. Well, now the time of top talent is a just another resource to be
sold off to rich, entitled Joffreys. Speaking for top talent here, I'm fucking
offended.

~~~
mindslight
> _winners of a computing, math, or science competition_

Because parental resources don't have extreme effects on these competitions as
well? Or is it just an easy-to-propose feel-good alternative?

Sheesh. pg obviously foresaw negative reactions, but this entire thread is
simply ridiculous. Please just step back and ask yourselves how your comments
affect _yourselves_. Is it really healthy to view access to YC as some kind of
golden ticket? The YC application must basically be a free-to-enter lottery!
(I must be pretty foolish for not playing all these years.)

To the extent that silly valley is currently a bubble-fueled casino,
complaining isn't going to put a stop to that, and dinner for a not-fully-
formed teenager fulfilling their parents' expectations does little to augment
that. And to the extent that there are still real companies being built on
technological merit, some inspiration and accelerated social connections will
do little to further disrupt that.

~~~
michaelochurch
_Because parental resources don 't have extreme effects on these competitions
as well? Or is it just an easy-to-propose feel-good alternative?_

I took part in those competitions. There were plenty of winners from humble
backgrounds and non-coastal regions. Plenty of years, the winner would be from
some no-name town in the Midwest. Sure, being privileged helped, but there was
real diversity, and most people with the talent had a chance.

 _Sheesh. pg obviously foresaw negative reactions, but this entire thread is
simply ridiculous._

Does someone foreseeing negative reactions to something, and then doing it
anyway, mean those negative reactions should not occur? If I steal something,
I'm pretty sure I'll get negative reactions (social disapproval, risk of
physical harm, jail time, etc.) because, as it were, it's actually the wrong
thing to do. If I do it, I can't dismiss people's hatred for that action as
somehow invalid by saying, "yeah, I knew that would piss you off." The fact
that I knew beforehand that people would find the action offensive doesn't
mitigate it's general wrongness.

~~~
nostrademons
I don't believe his actions are wrong. I do believe they piss people off.

You (and everyone else on this thread) can be pissed off. That doesn't change
the fact that one lucky rich kid is going to learn quite a bit for an evening,
or that a couple of lucky poor kids are going to be able to attend an elite
pre-school that they wouldn't otherwise be able to go to. Just because you
(well, "we", I ain't going either) aren't that lucky kid doesn't mean it's not
a good thing.

It's quite possible for an act to be the right thing to do and still hated.

------
lpolovets
This is a cause that YC likes, and they're donating one of their assets to
support the cause. Why is there so much negativity around this?

First, this is basically the most valuable thing YC can give away (without
selling slots into its batches). What else would be a reasonable thing to
offer? Second, this is access to a YC dinner, but it doesn't ruin the
meritocracy aspect -- just because you met a partner at a dinner doesn't mean
you can get into YC with a crappy idea or without a lot of work. Third, it
makes sense to target wealthy people and offer them a valuable reward for
their contributions. They have the most to contribute, and a reward makes them
more likely to contribute, and to contribute more.

The negative responses really bum me out.

~~~
swalkergibson
I think that it is more the fact that the prize is specifically for the
_children_ of the people who have, at this point, $20k+ to contribute to a
perfectly valid cause. It would be another matter entirely if it were some
adult buying access to a YC dinner. It is not. The gut reaction is that some
rich kid gets to build his/her Rolodex because he/she hit the sperm lottery.
In my opinion, it just seems like the antithesis of what YC is all about,
which is (as far as I can tell), "who are you, what have you built, and why
are you so good at what you do."

~~~
michaelochurch
_The gut reaction is that some rich kid gets to build his /her Rolodex because
he/she hit the sperm lottery. In my opinion, it just seems like the antithesis
of what YC is all about, which is (as far as I can tell), "who are you, what
have you built, and why are you so good at what you do."_

Bingo.

Now, it's a huge topological stretch to argue that attending the YC dinner is
really going to set a kid for life. More likely, he'll make a jackass of
himself and that will be the end of that. However, it's the statement, the
impression, and the direction that's getting everyone riled up.

The reason people dislike VCs is that they give resources to people who need
them the least. They'd be more respected if they were pouring their efforts
(at least in terms of time and mentorship; as they are businesses, they
shouldn't be funding nonviable candidates) into projects and people who could
actually use the help. No one likes a fairweather friend.

------
marklittlewood
Well intentioned probably. Full of suck though. Let's face it, if Y Combinator
can't fund a few scholarships for whatever school it wants to, it isn't the
most successful incubator in the world, or whatever it is. It can and it
should it it wants to. Drawing attention to it like this seems remarkably
gauche.

This seems to implicitly support the 'poor' in a rather patronising way. Rich
person pays for kid to come to dinner. Poor person gets gift of education.

Wonder who would bid if it was rich person gets to pay for poor person's kid
to go to dinner and rich kid gets 0?

------
s_m
As if a Bay Area kid whose parent has a couple extra grand to bid on such
dinners is going to be short on advantages in startuplandia. How about a
chance for disadvantaged kids to attend a YC dinner?

~~~
michaelochurch
_How about a chance for disadvantaged kids to attend a YC dinner?_

The Poors are dangerous.

------
gault8121
This looks like a life changing experience for a teen. Is this auction going
to Bing Nursery School?

~~~
pg
Yes, it's for the scholarship fund.

~~~
bennyg
You should do a TOMS model for this - as in, one person pays for the meal and
chance to meet/greet with founders, developers, and SV leaders (unfortunately
biased towards wealthier people). Then, you give away a "meal" to a person who
applies with an essay or something and who's parents can't pick up the check
on this opportunity.

~~~
pg
Since the money's going to scholarships, the situation actually is something
like that, except the latter parents get something better.

------
mildtrepidation
Am I reading this wrong, or is this an auction for a _single slot_ that's
currently at _twenty thousand dollars?_ If this is a standard auction model
and that's what's actually going on... wow.

------
avargas
I don't think you should be auctioning this for money. I think you should have
some sort of way for kids in that age range to submit a video to you, like a
30 second video someone on YCombinator could watch, and to see their
potential. Some rich kid that might think he's got what it takes will ask his
rich daddy to pay for it.

------
TheMakeA
As a 22 year old, I'd happily give $1000 to go to a YC dinner.

~~~
larrys
What would be interesting is if you could elaborate on a) where you would get
the $1000 and how significant $1000 is to you personally (vs. whatever your
assets are) b) what you would hope to gain by paying $1000 and doing this that
you could get by being creative and not spending the money.

~~~
hartator
I guess his $1000 is worth the same than everyone else.

~~~
mildtrepidation
Only from a literal third party perspective. Someone whose family lives in a
poor area and lives on food stamps will place a whole lot more value on $1,000
than a rich kid who gets the latest tech, his private high school tuition, and
his car paid for by his parents.

Most aren't this black and white, of course, but the point is that a fixed
amount of any asset can mean vastly different things to people in different
circumstances.

------
garrettdreyfus
I believe the real issue we are discussing is do the ends justify the means.
Is setting the precedent that you can buy a seat at a YC dinner worth a
20,000$ charitable donation. All in all I think it is. Also as a fifteen year
old programmer whose parents definitely couldn't afford the 20k, I don't see
this seat at the table as a great advantage and am thankful that the less
fortunate will be helped.

~~~
robg
It's a no-brainer. One seat at one dinner for one seat for one _year_ of
education. That's an obvious win for everyone. I'm sad something so trivial
turned into something so meaningful can become so controversial.

------
mathattack
20k? Wow!

I suspect that a resourceful kid could get a meeting with PG for free if they
thought hard enough.

So I see this as 100% Donation. In some traditions, the value value of a
donation is from the heart of the donor. In others it's from the benefit to
the recipient. I am in the latter camp. I hope there is a bidding war and some
rich self righteous jerk pays 500k to it. I think the charity would do a lot
of good with that money.

------
JoeyJelinek
I guess we can get market data on the value of a YC dinner...

------
granttimmerman
As a 20 year old I'm seriously thinking about putting my internship money into
this right now. I'll check back at 9:50pm and see what's the price.

~~~
dutchbrit
Totally not worth 20k, I'll tell you that! There are better ways to get your
foot in between the door, for free (unless you have no social skills what so
ever).

------
gojomo
Perhaps the winner will be a sullen, rebellious child of overbearing rich
parents... who rather than showing up that night decides to crash daddy's car.

------
fireworks10
Have invitations for the interviews for YC Winter 2014 been sent out yet?

------
mikeryan52
As a 20 year old student, this would be fantastic. I don't have the parents
who could bid on this, so I suppose I'll shoot for it myself.

------
cmac2992
If I had a kid/wasn't a kid myself I'd bid. I'd imagine this is one of the
most inspiring events a young person could witness

------
jhspaybar
I read "come" as "become" and was like...what horrible joke awaits me?! Glad
to see you won't be eating any children...

------
code_duck
Cool, I how the funds help YC in some way. Oh, they're being donated. Well
that's cool too... But what was the purpose of this?

------
asdad
How does this come to the main page of hacker news? 16+ points for a dinner
auction does not sound believable. Whats the secret?

~~~
iamkoby
it's pg who posted it...

------
rohanpai
I'm tempted to bid on this for myself

------
michaelochurch
This idea that parents can buy YC connections for their kids is the final nail
in the coffin of the idea of Silicon Valley meritocracy.

~~~
selmnoo
Oh, for goodness' sake. You could have made a legitimate point if you hadn't
been so abruptly cut-throat.

The fact of the matter is that connections, luck, etc. rule pretty much
everywhere. It's useless and unproductive to cast this blame to specific,
ultimately small entities. If I had been born about 5 miles north of where I
was born -- in the ghettos, vs. to a household that valued education, I would
have been living a very different life. And I'm grateful that didn't happen,
I'm grateful for all the opportunities I got, that my dad had friends in high
places and were willing to hire me as an intern. I'm grateful that I had the
social support to seek therapy when I had depression, a place to live when I
was unemployed and penniless, friends that respected me, etc. I would not have
had a lot of this if I was living in the third world, where opportunity is
scarce.

That is the way it is. You could chide YC and all the VC world, and I'm not
sure if you'd get anywhere. As far as VC firms and incubators go, it's clear
to see YC is something else: they're funding nonprofits like Watsi, their
partners seem to have some sense of social good, so I think snark here is
misplaced.

~~~
michaelochurch
I actually tend to like YC and the people it funds. They started with a noble
mission, which was to provide access to funding for a larger set of people.
I'd say that 75% of the YC founders I know are quality people.

I do think that Silicon Valley's arrogance and general out-of-touch attitude--
and unashamedly handing out VC connections to children who already benefit
from a massive private welfare system is pretty damn out of touch-- poses a
threat to the reputation of technologists _in general_ (including people like
me) and I'm going to fight the tide by making fun of this sort of shit. When
the country stops liking "the techies" I would at least hope that some of them
would recognize that we're not all the same, and that lifelong engineers are
of a different (and better) character than the reigning VC-halo/TechCrunch
leadership.

~~~
namenotrequired
_They started with a noble mission, which was to provide access to funding for
a larger set of people._

I'm simply curious, did you mean to imply that this is something of the past?

~~~
michaelochurch
_I 'm simply curious, did you mean to imply that this is something of the
past?_

The use of past tense was more to reflect deficiencies in my knowledge. I was
a huge fan of PG and YC circa 2006-7 because of what the original mission
seemed to be: to make funding possible for less established or connected
people. I have no reason to doubt that he has deviated from his mission;
however, I avoided the present tense because I do not _know_ that he stayed
the course. I can speak with more confidence on the past, hence the use of
that tense.

~~~
namenotrequired
Okay thanks for clarifying!

------
truthlaidbear
Oh, cool, you found a way to stack the startup game towards the wealthy.

~~~
joshdance
How is the startup game not stacked towards the wealthy already?

