
Ask HN: Leaving cushy job for startup (hire #1). Feed me your wisdom elder ones! - thrwway
As it turns out, comfort bores me, a LOT. After trying the whole office job career thingy, I&#x27;ve decided it&#x27;s either jump out the window or start taking risks again! (And promptly settled on the latter (I&#x27;m only on the third floor so it would only kind-of-hurt).)<p>However, I need a quick education on startup culture, jargon, inspiration, and how to avoid stupid mistakes. I know next to nothing about funding, dilution, employee compensation, etc. etc.<p>I want to be smart about this and make good decisions. What makes <i>your</i> personal list of the best no bullshit books &#x2F; talks one should read before embarking on ye ol&#x27; startup journey?<p>I have asked for a reasonable salary (same as current) + equity. The company model looks like it will either get huge (already growing + actually makes money), or crash and burn like a glorious zeppelin due to regulatory issues. I find this very exciting as it&#x27;s truly disruptive(TM) in a space that needs it.<p>If it does fail, I want to use this as a stepping stone &#x2F; learning experience for a next venture. I do not, EVER, want to go back to boring 9-5 punch in and out life. After two years at a stable big-corp job, I&#x27;ve decided that it is my personal version of hell on earth (and I&#x27;ve been through cancer! which could come back any day! -- life really <i>is</i> short... and I don&#x27;t plan to spend any more of it in meetings with middle management or building something that I don&#x27;t own a part of just to make someone else rich... you know it&#x27;s bad when hospital days feel like a welcome relief from daily routine). -- I also get bored of programming unless I feel I&#x27;m building something that matters or is challenging. I don&#x27;t care about being a Professional Software Engineer, I just wanna build cool risky shit and play mad scientist with smart people.<p>Okay, now it&#x27;s your turn to tell me what to shove into my brain before embarking on this journey (preferably in book or video talk form).
======
seattlesbest
9-5 is shorter than 9-9, remember that.

Startups have a reputation of running developers into the ground. Corporate
work, while boring at times, can be great if you want a work-life balance.

If you're going to be one of the first few hires, expect things to change as
the startup fails to gain traction and the money runs out. Even if it
successful, you'll probably find yourself in a management role as more people
are brought in and you're the expert on the business domain (as well as the
landing pages, marketing emails, CRUD apps, account details, etc.).

In some ways, a solid corporate gig can be more honest. IME you get hired for
a role and you do that type of work. Maybe you haven't found the right cushy
corporate gig?

~~~
thrwway
Hi, thanks I'm taking that into account. For me overwork is relative... I can
burn out in 4 hours doing something I find boring or don't care about, then
spend a weekend without sleep working on something a lot more challenging but
interesting.

I would be okay with my role changing over time. Code is just another tool for
turning ideas into things. I'm probably naive about some things, but one thing
I'm sure of: routine is poison, comfort is overrated.

~~~
Communitivity
I am not in a startup, so take this with a grain of salt. I have a number of
people I talk to who have been in startups though, and a common refrain is
that when you sign on very early you wear many hats - some fun, some not.
Don't expect all your time to be coding, just like when you have a child you
shouldn't expect all your time with that child to be play time.

I say this because if you burn out in 4 hours doing something you find boring
then you might not be able to deal with everything needed. However another
common refrain is that every startup is different, so you have to decide for
yourself based on your read of the startup.

One last bit of caution. If you push yourself to the wall all the time then
you might not have the energy you need when the time comes where the business
really needs that push. From what I've been told, and from personal experience
on a number of fast paced projects, it's better to pump out a consistent 40-60
hours a week with an occasional push to 80, than it is to do 80 every week
until you crash.

------
johnnycarcin
Lots of other good info has already been posted so the one thing I'll mention
is that eventually people get sick of the "mad scientist" (I know as it has
happened to me).

It's great to try new things and live on the bleeding edge but at some point
the people you work with are going to get tired of switching to the new hot
thing. You can only re-do your architecture so many times before people start
tuning you out or start to say "no", then what happens?

You'll go back to doing the same thing you were doing such as adding new
features (using the already existing tech), fixing bugs, scaling out, etc.
That or you'll find a new place to work which, depending on how long you
lasted, means you might lose that equity you were given.

Honestly, if you want to play mad scientist and build cool shit you should be
a contractor and build solutions for companies that come to you with problems.
You get to build it, hand it over and then move on to the next new thing.

------
aliston
\- There is a 90% chance the company will fail and you will end up working
harder than you ever have for less money and with a less marketable resume.
Even though you say that being a "professional software engineer" doesn't
matter to you, you're more marketable coming from stable big-corp for product
manager, data scientist, engineering manager, TPM, director of engineering
etc. etc. roles than some guy from a startup nobody has heard of.

\- Even if this company is insanely successful, most likely you are going to
make peanuts. I have worked at two startups as a relatively early employee,
one acquired for XX M and another for XXX M. In both cases, the money I would
have made/made was hardly life changing. There is a 99% chance that this is a
bad economic decision.

\- Even if this company is insanely, insanely successful, the founders are
going to be flying in private jets, and you'll have a down payment on a house
in Palo Alto.

\- The only reason to join a startup as an early employee is the learning
experience. You will learn more than you can imagine. You are going to work
really really hard, and it is going to push you to your limit. You won't be
the same person on the other side. It will have some incredible highs and some
incredible lows.

------
augb
Often people behave differently when things are going well, than when things
start to fail. For example, when the runway (amount of time left before the
available funding dries up and the company goes of business) starts to get on
the short-side, the stress level is likely to increase.

People don't always have a realistic view of what they are heading into (and
this includes ourselves).

As with most anything worthwhile, the inspiring challenge for today will
likely have some periods of the "daily grind". Be realistic with yourself -
are you willing to stick through some of these times, or are you likely to
jump ship at the first sign of difficulty? There is a balance to strike
between perseverance and knowing when it is time to leave. This can be tricky.

Edit: fix punctuation

------
JSeymourATL
> I have asked for a reasonable salary (same as current) + equity.

Consider that the equity represents an ownership stake in the company, you are
now a junior partner responsible for its success. No longer a flunky employee.
This should impact your thinking and outlook on everything.

You will find Jay Abraham's 'Getting Everything You Can Out of All You've Got'
excellent food-for-thought >
[http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89969.Getting_Everything_...](http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89969.Getting_Everything_You_Can_Out_of_All_You_ve_Got)

------
DrNuke
Honest wisdom: odds say it will end in tears, so have fun and... good luck!

------
lovelearning
"I also get bored of programming unless I feel I'm building something that
matters or is challenging"

Keep an interesting idea of your own as a side project to do at home at nights
and weekends. The startup is somebody else's idea. It may or may not be
challenging to you, and it may or may not interest you after a while.

------
floppydisk
We're in the same boat, I always got envious of the people doing the mad cool
stuff and playing mad scientist -- that's what makes the tech blogs, but
missed the fact that $MAD_COOL_THING was only a fraction of what they did and
that all jobs come with a lot of cruft. Big corps come with more overhead and
bureaucracy, and small corps/startups require you wear a lot of hats, some of
which you will abhor but need to -- like setting up email
marketing/configuring web servers / debugging that support app someone wrote
as a one off a year ago that's feeding the CEOs spreadsheets mysteriously and
no one knows how. etc. You will dislike some of what you do and it won't be
playing mad scientist all the time.

That said, here's a couple things I've learned the hard way to pay attention
to when joining a small corp / startup:

1) Ask bout funding. Seriously. How much do they have, what's the burn rate,
when do they expect to be self-sustaining (running on sales/revenue rather
than seed/VC $$), how profitable are they now, is their capital tied to any
contingencies (i.e. they may have "access" to $X dollars to fund the startup
but only if they achieve sales figures $Y-Z w/i a certain time frame, I got
burned bad by not knowing this). Know the funding situation and be cognizant
of what you're getting into.

2) Keep your work/life balance. It's very easy for small companies and
startups to eat your life and you're spending all your good hours in the
office putting out someone else's fire without any additional compensation /
comp time / what have you. It's just expected of you and it's easy to slide
into that role. Be vigilant about protecting your free time outside of work
and setting boundaries to recharge and refresh yourself. Go to meet ups, go
for a run, meet new people, whatever you do. Explicitly carve out time for
that and defend it zealously against creep. There will always be more work,
another fire, and another do or die moment, without fail. There won't be a
redo on life. Live yours.

3) They (leadership) may not be loyal to you. Companies, especially startups,
expect fanatical devotion to the product, company, and their vision but they
won't be loyal or necessarily upfront with you about how the company is doing.
You can get a sense of some of these things based on what crosses your desk,
but don't expect die hard loyalty or a commitment to treat staff right.
Understand petty politics / business concerns will impact you, especially if
there are personality conflicts. Get a sense of who you'll be working with and
your rapport and decide if you're comfortable with them. Yes, this is cynical
to a certain degree, but I've seen it play out repeatedly to the point of
carefully screening coworkers and direct managers to the best of my ability
before deciding to join. Life is too short to work with/for people you can't
stand (and vice versa).

Edited to fix wording.

