
Will carriers destroy the Android vision? - shawndumas
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/12/entelligence-will-carriers-destroy-the-android-vision/
======
HectorRamos
I won't get into the murky waters of iPhone vs. Android - usually these end in
both sides calling the other fanboys.

I will say that I tried to get into JavaME development and had a few leads
(back in 2006 - 2007) but it was such a nightmare to test on many devices and
know which would work, that I got out of that business.

When the iPhone came out and set its own terms, I sighed with relief. Yes, its
closed and has its issues, but I really like knowing that there are rules and
as long as I play nice, I will be able to distribute my app in that platform
and it will work perfectly in all devices. I have an iPod Touch running 3.1.3,
a 3G, 3GS and iPhone 4 (all bought on launch and kept them as I upgraded) on
iOS 4.0 and 4.1, and an iPad on 3.2, where I can quickly deploy and test and
be pretty much sure that the application will work across 95% of iOS devices.

We haven't turned our back on Android development, but we tread that soil
lightly. I could perhaps have various devices on 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.1 and 2.2 to
test, but then even that is not enough as the screens vary, carriers add
different enhancements and the hardware is different for each device. Before
Android users gang up on me, keep in mind that I am not criticizing it from an
user's POV. Rather, as a company doing mobile app development for clients, it
is a very risky endeavor to sign a contract that includes Android app
development for these reasons stated above. Also, since I am already an iPhone
user, having all these devices around for testing is a given - I would have to
invest some more to gather various Android devices in addition to the G1 we
got two years ago when we were thinking about offering services on both
platforms.

~~~
blub
As more models are launched and new versions of the OS are published, there
will be more fragmentation. This is expected and the odds are that it will
happen to Apple too.

Take a look at Symbian, where not only do you have different resolutions, but
touch and non-touch phones and a myriad of OS update versions. Luckily, you
have access to a virtual device hub where you can do online testing.

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gamble
This issue is the philosophical equivalent of Apple's App Store censorship,
for Android fans. Android's partisans are so fixated on victory over Apple
that they ignore or excuse the fact that carriers are steadily chipping away
at the 'openness' that Android is supposed to embody.

~~~
streamline
here is the difference, with android you can erase the O.S. from the device
and re install a clean version, and still all applications will work.

Can you do that with iOS.

Comparing Android and iOS is like comparing freedom in America to that of
Iran.

US still has death penalty sadly, but they are not stoning women for adultery.

~~~
kylec

        with android you can erase the O.S. from the device and re install
        a clean version, and still all applications will work
    

Rooting is a complicated process, and it's by no means a certainty that it
will continue to be possible. The carriers and the manufacturers are getting
better at patching the holes used to get root access and are coming out with
technologies like e-fuse that are designed to prevent unauthorized firmwares
from being installed.

    
    
        Can you do that with iOS.
    

Yes, much more so than Android. At any time I can run a restore on my iPhone
and install a clean version of iOS. With most Android phones it's impossible
to run a stock version of the OS unless it came with it or the phone is
rooted.

~~~
biafra
That's the good thing about choice. By buying an Nexus One (or an ADP1) you
can do all that without _any_ hassle.

That choice is not available with any iOS-device as of now.

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mgkimsal
What is the 'android vision'? Seems to me the problem outlined in the article
was an issue well before Android was even available, and certainly well-known.
If carriers adding crap and restricting stuff wasn't supposed to be part of
Android's 'vision', Google could easily have created licensing terms to
enforce that. They didn't.

~~~
m0nastic
I think the "android vision" is the mythical belief that certain consumers
have that Google wanted to release an open phone platform for the benefit of
the users.

I disagree about Google having much choice about how they set up the licensing
terms however. In order for Android to become the defacto platform for handset
manufacturers, they needed to license it in a way which was more attractive to
the companies building and deploying the phones.

I don't think that carriers mucking with Android is some fatal flaw that will
doom the platform, but I also absolutely don't believe that when Google was
launching Android, that they envisioned carriers in China replacing all their
services with Baidu.

If they did anticipate that, and still opted to release Android the way they
did, then they are idiots; which I don't really believe.

~~~
ZeroGravitas
I wouldn't be that surprised if that (Chinese Android phones minus Google) was
actually part of the plan.

But then I'm not even sure why it's being presented as a problem by media
outlets. Similar to piracy of music or games, it's only really a loss if that
pirate was originally going to be buying in the first place. Having Android
forks on phones is only a loss to Google if they were going to have pure
Android on them in the first place (rather than WM, Symbian, Bada, Meego or
whatever other competitor OS).

Just like Bill Gates said he'd rather have China running pirated Windows than
a competitor and he'd figure out how to monitize it later, I'm sure Google are
overjoyed that a fork of their mobile OS making it easier for Billions of
people to get on the net and start clicking on ads.

------
packetlss
And this article is from the same guy that predicted that the Kin would be a
massive success.

~~~
blub
That doesn't mean that we should automatically ignore everything else he says.

------
guelo
Question is who won this battle when Verizon and Apple negotiated the iphone
coming out next year. I'm guessing Verizon wasn't able to get any crapware on
there but you never know, Apple really did want to expand beyond AT&T.

As far as Android, I get the sense that Google is not happy with this
situation and they do have one big stick they can use, access to Android
Market.

------
fleitz
Users that want to speak with their wallets will use iPhone where such
problems do not exist. Other problems may exist but bundled crap is not one of
them.

Crapware didn't kill the low margin bargain PC market and it's not going to
kill the low margin bargain smart phone market either. There are plenty of
consumers in the high end and low end market.

~~~
m0nastic
I'm not so sure that the comparison with the bargain PC market is apt.

I bought a Samsung Vibrant (not a low-end market phone) and returned it after
a week. All of the crapware installed on it was absolutely one of the reasons
I returned it (albeit not the only reason).

There is no distinction presently between which phones come with crapware
(basically all phones that aren't the Nexus One), the only distinction is
which particular crapware the manufacturers/carriers put on it.

------
cma
GPLv3 is looking better and better.

~~~
streamline
on a sidenote GPL v3 or any other GPL license is not allowed on apple iOS.

~~~
kylec
It's not as though Apple is rejecting GPL'd apps. Quite the opposite, the
terms of the GPL are what prevent apps licensed under it from being included
in the App Store.

------
zackattack
I hope all the Android fans show up to this thread: I am going to buy a new
smart phone to celebrate my birthday. Since I don't love the iPhone, I'm
thinking of getting an Android. What's the best phone on the market - or
should I wait a bit for one yet to come out? I'm on the AT&T contract.

~~~
old-gregg
The way I see it, there is only one Android phone out there: Nexus One.
Getting anything else does not make sense - you're essentially getting a loan
(!) for a dumbed-down, restricted and less capable phone hampered even more by
"value adding" crapware, running an obsolete OS without any guarantees of an
upgrade in the future.

T-Mobile offers cheaper plans for those who don't need a loan to buy a phone,
i.e. getting a financed/subsidized crap actually ends up being expensive in
the long (2yr) run.

Its not the carriers who are guilty, it is the users who keep flocking towards
subsidized crap. Its like buying laptops from Dell at 50% off financed at
20%APR that have Windows+crapware engraved in ROM, incapable of booting
anything else.

~~~
sandGorgon
No - there are several "Android" phones. These are the ones which Cyanogenmod
supports.

Cyanogenmod is a community supported Android distro made for each and every
phone model that it supports. My HTC MAgic (equiv. T-Mobile Mytouch 3G) is now
running Cyanogenmod 6 based on Android 2.2

 _Most_ of the other custom firmware for phones are based off Cyanogenmod,
rather than stock Android.

Support the project financially or otherwise, and request for your particular
phone. Usually, all HTC phones are supported.

~~~
m_eiman
Does this method rely on security holes, like the iPhone jailbreaks, or is it
something explicitly allowed by handset makers (and operators)?

~~~
sandGorgon
Quite a few of the phones allow it (most of the HTC, the original Moto Droid,
the Nexus One of course, etc.). I think even the Samsungs allow it.

For some of them (early HTC, etc.) the process exploits a hole. The install
process for both is the same though: install new bootloader -> choose your
flavor of Android.

------
streamline
To be frank Google wants to actively discourage, native app development. And
they are right, their vision involves everyone using Web as their source for
information or applications.

The only issue is that internet is not as ubiquitous as they would want it to
be. But wait for 2-3 years and then we will live in truly internet filled
world.

Regarding iPhone, Apple wants to own all parts of their users experience,
which is even worse than having crapware.

Apple is one of the most old-world corporate minded corporation. and wants
resurgence of old large corporate entities like newspapers, etc. They want an
internet which is about selling stuff by large corporations to general
consumers and not about sharing information between people. They are the ones
who slept with crappy companies such as EMI.

~~~
loewenskind
>Apple is one of the most old-world corporate minded corporation. and wants
resurgence of old large corporate entities like newspapers

Exactly. That's why when they released the first iPhone it didn't even have
native apps. They said the web is where your apps are! Oh wait... that's the
opposite of what you're saying.

~~~
wmf
Apple only talked about web apps for a while because their native app SDK
wasn't ready yet. Apple has never fully embraced the Web, preferring to stick
with "rich" better-than-web UIs.

