

Google’s Ad System Has Become Too Big to Control - Fjolsvith
http://www.wired.com/2015/07/googles-ad-system-become-big-control

======
yc1010
Google adsense has a bigger problem, adblocking

It has gone from hardcore nerds (about 10%) blocking ads which was fine to
everyone and their mother blocking ads on desktops/laptops, and I do not blame
them. According to my measurements of adblocking (surprisingly easy to detect
if ads are being blocked)

I have used adsense since it started in 2003 making close to million euro in
that time, but the last few months have been absolutely disastrous (tho my
traffic has also fallen in last couple of years unfortunately)

Basically the writing is on the wall and I have concentrated on other projects
in last while

There must be alot of worried people now at google wondering if they will
still have a job in a few years, yes mobile is helping but for how long?

~~~
pjc50
I'm considering rooting my Android phone and tablet _simply_ so I can install
effective adblockers against three things:

\- in-app ads which, without clicking on the ad, bounce me out of the app and
into a browser

\- browser ads which bounce to the good old "your computer has a virus!"
exploitware

\- animated web background ads which slow the browser to a crawl

~~~
DanBC
> \- in-app ads which, without clicking on the ad, bounce me out of the app
> and into a browser

On iOS there are ads that bounce you out of the browser and into the app
store.

I cannot understand how anyone thinks this is a good idea. I am ad tolerant
but those ads make me want to use ad block technology.

~~~
falcolas
Yeah, Imgur would run some of these ads, and I wanted to scream every time I
would be browsing reddit and get bounced to the app store with every third
click.

------
cbr
The paper talks about two main findings:

1\. Test accounts that visited substance abuse websites were much more likely
to be shown ads for Watershed Rehab but nothing shows up on the ad settings
page indicating the change.

2\. Test accounts where the ad settings page has gender=male were much more
likely to be shown ads for the recruiter careerchange.com, which offered
"$200k+ Jobs - Execs Only".

The first case sounds very much like retargeting. The substance abuse website
would drop a cookie and get a small payment from a central db for telling them
that this cookie is associated with viewing substance abuse websites. Then
Watershed Rehab wants to advertise to substance abuse website visitors, so
they pay the central db for a list of cookies, which includes this one. Then
Watershed sets up an ad campaign with Google and asks to target visitors with
cookies on this list. This can't show up as an "interest" on the ads settings
page as "substance abuse" because the association was made by third parties;
Google doesn't have enough of the picture to see what happened. You can opt
out of retargeting by turning off "interest based ads" at
[https://www.google.com/settings/ads](https://www.google.com/settings/ads)

The second case sounds like careerchange.com submitted an ad campaign that
looked at the gender field. Advertisers have tried to target specific genders
for a long time through color and where they advertise, but the internet does
make it much more explicit. Still, this is a very small sample to be drawing
large conclusions about, especially as careerchange.com stopped doing it
(observed in their May run but not the June one).

Disclaimer: I work at Google, on open source software, and I don't know
anything about these specific cases.

~~~
protomyth
"The substance abuse website would drop a cookie and get a small payment from
a central db for telling them that this cookie is associated with viewing
substance abuse websites."

Any substance abuse website that does this is run by charlatans and has all
the morality of a hyena. This is such a violation of trust that I cannot
imagine any healing coming from it.

~~~
cbr
The effect of this is that people who visit substance abuse websites see ads
for rehab centers. This seems generally positive, though there's a risk of
other people seeing the computer and asking "why are you getting ads for rehab
centers?"

Or is there something else that makes this bad that I'm missing?

~~~
andybak
> This seems generally positive, though there's a risk of other people seeing
> the computer and asking "why are you getting ads for rehab centers?"

"This seems generally positive apart from the risk of occasionally ruining
someone's life."

~~~
protomyth
Yes. It is also a huge violation of privacy and will encourage people not to
get help. The "Target flyer - My Daughter is Pregnant" scenario could happen
to a person looking for help and make their situation worse or untenable.

------
Donzo
One person's notion of "discrimination" is another's notion of "targeting."

Perhaps marketers should be able to target the demographics that they are
trying to reach.

Perhaps the system is working as it was intended.

~~~
forgottenpass
One person's "questionable practice" is another's "profitable"?

This is nothing new and the implied if not explicit backdrop of the article in
the first place. Or maybe I'm missing your point.

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EdwardDiego
Speaking as someone who works for a competitor to Google in the online
advertising space, we take great comfort in how large and unwieldy Google's
system is. It gives us opportunities and niches to target.

~~~
Jgrubb
Can I ask who you work for? I work for a publisher (who's deeply in bed with
DFP, but also a couple others).

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CWuestefeld
I'm not finding this terribly shocking. I just can't get worked up about the
"problem" that Google is allowing people - not doing it themselves, mind you,
but simply failing to actively block other people - from targeting ads in a
way that some other people might find unfair.

The world of advertising seems an odd place to have this battle. Do we really
believe that a person of protected class X has an affirmative right to be
targeted by advertising in the same way as everyone else? I find it difficult
to imagine someone exclaiming "how come HE got to see the advertisement, but
you didn't put the ad in for me?" \- or anyone who does get offended in this
way is probably seeking out faults to complain about.

------
dsjoerg
from the article
([http://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.6491v2.pdf](http://arxiv.org/pdf/1408.6491v2.pdf)):

"We also like to assign blame where it is due. However, doing so is often
difficult. For example, our view on blame varies based on why females were
discriminated against in our gender and jobs experiment. If Google allowed the
advertiser to easily discriminate, we would blame both."

~~~
cbr

        Google allowed the advertiser to easily discriminate
    

This is definitely the case:

    
    
        With demographic targeting in AdWords, you can
        reach customers who are likely to be within the
        demographic groups that you choose. Demographic
        groups that you can choose from include:
    
        * age
        * gender
        * parental status
    
        For example, if your business caters to a
        specific set of customers within a particular
        age range, gender, or parental status, you may
        want to target your ads to this audience because
        they’re more likely to be interested in your
        products or services.
    

[https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2580383?hl=en](https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2580383?hl=en)

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treelovinhippie
In my experience it's also one of the most complicated. Maybe it was just our
specific use case but my experience with AdWords was 2 months of tweaking
keywords and consulting with one of their free specialists. $40/day. After
about $1000 we were seeing an average of $13 per conversion, and stopped.
Facebook ads were setup in 5min, nothing special, same area targeting, same
messaging and graphics: $2.50 per conversion.

~~~
prawn
Back in the beginning, AdWords was actually a decent and affordable option.
Then they started jacking up prices even in the absence of competition of
others for the same keywords.

------
ashishk
Anyone else find it ironic that this article has Adsense / Doubleclick ads on
it?

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JupiterMoon
This is exactly what Google's advertising system is designed to do!

------
johansch
What utter total bullocks.

