
Ask HN: How can I stop receiving spam phone calls? - raymondgh
Hi HN!<p>I get between 2-5 spam phone calls every day. Often, the callers&#x27; numbers have the same area code as my own number. I believe the calls are automated there are many identical messages and on the occasion that I do answer, it&#x27;s usually a recording.<p>I&#x27;ve blocked dozens of phone numbers but the calls and voicemails don&#x27;t stop. I keep my phone perpetually on &quot;Do Not Disturb&quot; excepting calls from favorites and repeat callers. Sometimes I pick up the phone and repeat &quot;Put me on your do-not-call list&quot; a couple times. Sometimes the recording says to press a number to stop receiving calls, and I do that as well. I&#x27;ve also added my number to https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.donotcall.gov&#x2F;<p>Nothing seems to do the trick. It&#x27;s really annoying and time-consuming to check my voicemails for real messages. The red notification badge is no longer a useful way to know if I&#x27;ve missed a call from someone I care about.<p>I don&#x27;t want to get a new phone number either, and I don&#x27;t know if that would even solve the issue.<p>What can I do?
======
afo
Founder of Nomorobo here. We put a stop to all of those annoying robocalls,
telemarketers, and spam/scam calls and texts. It's about the only thing that
works nowadays.

It's not your imagination - these types of calls are out of control. According
to our data, 40% of all calls made in the US are illegal, unwanted spam/scam
robocalls. And those "neighbor" spoofed calls (same area code and extension)
are especially prevalent now. Beginning last summer, they started to account
for ~20% of all robocalls. Before that they were only about 2% of all robocall
volume.

The Do Not Call list is almost completely ineffective against these types of
calls. It was created 15+ years ago to stop legitimate companies from
telemarketing. But today's robocallers are criminals that don't really care
about the law. They have one goal - scam people and take their money.

Manually blocking calls will also get you nowhere. And please, for the love of
god, don't press a number to get on their alleged "do-not-call" list. That
will guarantee that you will get even more robocalls - they know you're a live
number now.

On the technical side, our landline service (free) is powered by Twilio and
our mobile product is available in both app stores (14 day free trial, $2
bucks a month after that). We're a PHP/Laravel shop and our team is completely
remote.

To do the actual detection, our algorithm analyzes over 70M calls per month
and adds over 1,300 new numbers to the blacklist every day. We built the
world's largest commercial telephony honeypot (300k+ lines) and can detect new
attacks within minutes of them starting (even with spoofed numbers). Just last
month, Nomorobo stopped over 27 million from reaching people's phones.

I'm happy to answer any other questions that you have about robocalls. I'm
kind of the "robocall guy". I won the FTC Robocall challenge back in 2013 and
grew Nomorobo to be the leading robocall blocker on the market. I've even
testified in front of the US Senate about the robocall epidemic.

~~~
jakebasile
T-Mobile offers a spam blocking service that stops calls from reaching my
phone, because of that there's no way for me to gauge just how many are being
blocked. What is your take on network level spam filtering?

You're blocking 1300 numbers a day. I assume the spammers rotate numbers, so
if someone gets a recycled number that was on your list, what happens?

These spammers get connected to the telephone system somehow. Is there nothing
that can be done to force the telecom providers to more carefully check the
companies they lease mass lines to?

I tried your service before, but the calls spoofed as if they come from my
area code and exchange were never blocked. Why is that?

Spam calls infuriate me like little else. I'm glad you're working to stop them
but it seems to be something that will require a larger industry and/or
government intervention.

Thanks for sharing any insight you have!

~~~
afo
The spammers rotate through new numbers every few hours. We're actually
_adding_ 1,300 new numbers per day and the full blacklist is over 700k
entries.

As for getting connected to the phone system - Yeah, they have to jump on the
phone network somewhere and, in theory, the best way to stop these guys would
be to at the ingress point.

The problem is that the phone system is built for interconnection. Even just
one bad actor letting the traffic on spoils the system. Layer on top of that
the way the network routes calls through multiple hops through multiple
carriers and tracking the calls back to the source is nearly impossible. Throw
in common carrier regulations (you can't just willy nilly block calls coming
over the network) and it amps up even more. Finally, allow all this to be done
for fractions of pennies and you get the perfect storm for robocalls.

As for the neighbor spoofed calls, make sure that you enter your phone number
in Nomorobo so that we can make sure we protect the correct number block
([Area Code]-[Exchange]-[0000-9999]). In our initial release, we were only
able to identify these calls but not block them. It had to do with blocking
calls from families with sequential phone numbers. But, in our last release,
if you give the app contact access, we can now scrub those numbers and fully
block the neighbor spoofed calls.

It's been a bit of a balancing act between being privacy conscious (not
needing your email/phone number/invasive contact access) and getting the job
done. The balance that we've struck is this - you don't have to give us any of
that and you'll get really good protection. But, if you try out the service
and start to trust us more, we can do an even better job.

And finally, yes - it's going to take a lot of effort to tackle this problem.
While Nomorobo isn't perfect - admittedly, the sim ring landline version is
just a crazy hack that the carriers can't stop - the past 4 years have seen
some great progress in the fight.

As more and more people become aware of robocall blockers and we show that
it's actually a very safe way to protect people, only then will the larger
industry come along (kicking and screaming the entire way).

~~~
bradknowles
I’ve been a nomorobo customer for a long time, and I’ve had my full phone
number entered in the system from day one. And you’ve had access to my
contacts, too.

However, I still get the neighbor scam calls, and it’s one of the most
annoying things I deal with on a daily basis.

I’ve been thinking that I should write my own whitelist-only call screening
app on top of twilight, and maybe becoming one of your biggest competitors.

That is, unless you want to take this idea and implement it yourselves, and
saving me the trouble. ;)

------
typealias
I had the same problem a few months ago before I set up an automated virtual
assistant to pre-screen calls[1]. It works with my existing phone number by
forwarding all inbound calls to a small Linode box which plays an audio prompt
and listens for specific keywords. (Whitelisted numbers get patched through
immediately.)

Since I made that post, the system has filtered 100% of the spammers and 0% of
my actual contacts. I think the non-bot spammers started to get sick of
hearing my audio prompt because the number of spam calls that come in has
dropped dramatically.

[1] [https://andrewchidden.com/defeating-spam-callers-with-
speech...](https://andrewchidden.com/defeating-spam-callers-with-speech-
recognition-and-call-forwarding/)

~~~
imhoguy
Impressive integration experiment! Is your phone line busy during call
forwarding? Would it possible to package all this in mobile app instead? There
is some Speech API available and maybe call control/recording too, but I am
not sure - not an IOS dev.

~~~
typealias
Thanks! I think Google Voice has two lines in, so it’d return a busy tone when
I’m in an active call with someone (one line for each person to do the call
merging).

>Would it possible to package all this in mobile app instead?

Unfortunately the limiting factor would be background processing here; iOS
isn’t permissive enough to really replace the server. I think it might be
possible by using a background service on Android though.

------
ipython
Track them down and sue them in small claims court. I’ve collected nearly
$10,000 doing this.

Short story: calling your cell phone with automated dialing equipment and
automated messaging (“press 1 to talk to someone”) is illegal per the TCPA.
I’m not a lawyer but it’s fun to be amateur attorney for a day. Definitely a
time suck though...

~~~
jakebasile
Have you perhaps written about your experience doing this? I'd love to read
about it.

~~~
influx
Here's a presentation I found to get you started:

[https://s.ai/presentations/tcpa.pdf](https://s.ai/presentations/tcpa.pdf)

------
gfody
The company is called NobelBiz and they call the technology LocalTouch which
they've patented and claim to be the industry's only legal "solution" to the
TCPA.

Here's their page detailing how they rotate through buckets of local numbers
to present a new one on each attempt:
[http://www.nobelbiz.com/solutions/telco-
services/localtouch-...](http://www.nobelbiz.com/solutions/telco-
services/localtouch-boost-contact-rates/)

I got to meet these shitlords not too long ago and one them explained how the
local calls were great for collection agencies since the poor bastards thought
the agency was just down the street. They're also regularly in court defending
their patent (google for "NobelBiz v."). So you could call them to report the
spammer, they might be able to add your number to their blocklist, or in the
case the number isn't operated by one of their customers then they should be
interested as it would indicate another company to sue.

------
jimmies
I don't receive any spam call at all, but many scam calls.

I once got an Indian Dell "virus" guy to be mad at me after 1+ hour when I got
him to my VMWare Windows XP with a super inappropriate wallpaper -- before
that I just told him to hold because I need to get my laptop from another
building, need to poop, asking stupid questions, etc, and went back to work
and pick up the phone after 25-30 minutes as a break. But the lower-tier guys
often don't understand many references and attempts that you trick them, so
it's not as fun as you thought. After a while, I got kinda bored, because they
actually fell for my bait too easily. Tier-1 guys are garbage, if you want to
have fun you have to bait them to give you tier-2.

I got a fun call last time.

I have been receiving calls from the FBI lately. A guy with Indian accent was
demanding to speak to Mister so-and-so, and I was teasing him (pretending to
be dumb, can't hear, fart, etc) to the point he got mad.

Then I was just listening to him going at me. After a while trying to eff my
mom, he actually transferred me to another guy (tier-2) who speaks really good
English. The conversation went something like this:

\- Well, see, I know too well you're not FBI. What you're gonna do?

\- Sorry man, I was just doing my job.

\- I know I can't know where you're calling from. So tell me, your English is
good, and you seem pretty calm and collected, why do you have to stay up at 12
AM to do this shitty job?

\- No, I'm not in India. I'm in Texas.

\- For real?

\- Yeah, I'm a student. Someone asked me if I want to make some extra bucks
over the break. It pays pretty well, better than normal jobs in here.

\- Oh, interesting.

\- Do you want to do it too? I can refer you.

\- No thanks, I have a job that pays me OK, but good luck with your
''''job.''''

\- OK, nice talking to you.

\- Nice talking to you.

Take it for what it's worth, but that seems to be the most successful scam
call that I have ever received. I actually don't receive any more calls after
that.

~~~
ipython
Those guys get seriously ticked off when you string them along long enough...
nice job befriending that guy. Next time accept his offer to get an
introduction - great intel to identify the offending party and sue them for
TCPA violations.

------
amingilani
Have you tried Google Voice? It has this call screening feature that requires
the person calling you to give their name before it forwards the call to you
like a secretary. This will block the recorded calls and you can choose to
skip the screening for your friends and family.

------
somecallitblues
It started happening to me when I registered a domain name and made my phone
number available via whois lookup. The same day I got an Indian company
offering me web services for the new domain. Then it escalated and every dodgy
Indian web company started calling me. I managed to change the details and
update the phone number to a local law enforcement agency's number, but I
guess the number was online for long enough to spread through some kind of
Indian scammer network. I started getting calls offering me to remortgage my
home even if I don't have a mortgage, pretend calls from the taxation office
(in American accent even though I'm not in the US) and a million other things
like SEO services etc. A lot of the times they'll route calls through a local
VOIP number and even have a local mobile number popup in my screen. They could
totally scam me if it wasn't for the Indian accent that gives it away.

------
spartas
Answer the phone when they call and conference in the Jolly Roger telephone
bot [http://www.jollyrogertelco.com](http://www.jollyrogertelco.com)

The bot will waste the telemarketers time, which is the most expensive thing
that these companies are paying for. Do this enough times and the calls drop
off rapidly.

~~~
afo
We (Nomorobo) worked with Jolly Roger this holiday season and built SantaBots.
Check out all the recordings at www.DoNotCallChristmas.com

------
IanDrake
Make sure your number isn’t listed on the Whois information for any domains
you own.

I had the same types of calls. Changed the phone number on my domains to an
old number of mine and the spam calls stopped a few weeks later.

------
mikestew
T-Mobile claims to block scam calls now. I just turned it on a few days ago,
so it’s too soon to tell, but I haven’t gotten any unwanted calls, where I
usually get at least one a day.
[https://explore.t-mobile.com/callprotection](https://explore.t-mobile.com/callprotection)

From what I’ve read, without trying it, nomorobo seems to be recommended. I
was going to give it a whirl before I found t-mo will blocks the calls now.

~~~
cosmie
I'd suggest turning on Scam ID for a bit before turning on Scam Block. It
still rings, but has a "Scam Likely" caller id name.

So far it's had three false positives: the robocalls from my kid's school
related to snow days and bus delays, the reminder calls from my doctor, and a
fraud alert from Capital One to confirm or deny a flagged charge.

I only caught those ones because the numbers were already saved in my phone as
contacts. I would have never even known about these call attempts with the
Block on, whereas with Scam ID they have the option to leave a voicemail when
I deny the call, plus I can look up the number later if I feel like it.

~~~
mikestew
A good suggestion; as a counter-anecdote, I don’t recall anything that Scam ID
flagged that I cared about (they didn’t leave voicemail, at least), and I’ve
had that on since they implemented it. Don’t have kids in school, but
doctor/dentist calls get through. But your experience says an experiment is in
order first.

------
dv_dt
Blocking is pointless, the spam origination systems seem to be able to use
multiple numbers on a rolling basis. I guess iPhone IOS added a incoming call
filter api. I had been receiving so many calls on my cell that I tried some
filtering apps. The HiYa app I've currently settled at seems to identify most
incoming spam numbers and you can decline the calls. I think the volume of my
spam calls as gone down too.

------
jfitzpa22
Make note of the telephone number and add it to the Project Mayhem page. This
effort uses code sent from VOIP phones to flood these numbers:
[https://www.patreon.com/ProjectMayhem](https://www.patreon.com/ProjectMayhem)

~~~
viraptor
Or not. Many of those calls use spoofed caller IDs. Not only are you not
punishing the spammer, you're adding the number of a random person who have no
idea this happened.

~~~
jfitzpa22
Sorry I didn't spell out everything for you. You should also feel free to do
some investigating of your own, for example, call the number that appears on
your caller ID. Depending upon who answers the call you may or may not choose
to proceed with punishing the spammer. BTW feel free to propose a better idea
if you actually have one...

~~~
viraptor
I didn't say that for you. I did it for the people who are not aware of this
issue. Are you upset that I gave people more information, so they don't try to
block legitimate callers?

~~~
jfitzpa22
On the contrary, I'm "upset" that you cant offer those poor people a better
solution.

------
fractallyte
This guy had the right idea: 'How one man turns annoying cold calls into cash'
([http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23869462](http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-23869462))
and 'Cold-call victim gets his own back'
([https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/29/cold-call-
vict...](https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/aug/29/cold-call-victim-gets-
own-back)).

It depends on your situation, but it may be possible to turn lemons into
sparkly lemonade!

------
tonyquart
I think the best way to avoid them is by not using any landlines, but I
believe it couldn't be a right option for you. I think ignoring calls from
unfamiliar numbers is the only thing that we could do, and it saves your time.
I just read at [http://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-
massive-229500-robo...](http://www.whycall.me/news/consumer-wins-
massive-229500-robocall-lawsuit-against-time-warner-cable/) about suing
telemarketers. It might works for you if you are dealing with legit
telemarketers.

------
Blackstone4
I used to get tons of these calls in the US maybe 10 a week.

Not sure if it works but I tried to waste as many minutes as I can. I pick up
every number. If I know it's a robocall, I leave phone on my desk without
saying anything until they hang up. Maybe they realize you're a dead end and
stop calling.

Another way I look at it, is how can I develop my social skills? I might
string them along, make up a story. Make them so angry or become friends. You
can learn how you perform in these situations. :)

------
radford-neal
This problem would stop instantly if you could press a button during a call
and have 25 cents added to the caller's phone bill and perhaps get a 25 cent
credit on your own bill. Anyone know why this rather obvious solution hasn't
been implemented?

At a minimum, one could switch cell phone billing so that only the caller
pays, not the recipient.

~~~
tom_mellior
> At a minimum, one could switch cell phone billing so that only the caller
> pays, not the recipient.

Are there any countries besides the US that charge the callee? It's completely
unheard of in Europe.

I did spend some time in the US about ten years ago, and I do remember being
very surprised at being charged for calls received, and even for texts
received, although you have no influence on accepting them! Such a weird
system.

~~~
mac01021
What if you use your mobile phone to receive a million texts per day and the
sender uses a different service provider. Your service provider has to pay for
all that data moving through its network one way or another...

~~~
tom_mellior
I don't know exactly how inter-provider billing works, but I assume the
sender's network pays the receiving network. The sender caused the traffic,
why would anyone else pay for it?

------
whatyoucantsay
[http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/](http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/)

------
kss238
Answering their calls make them more likely to call you the future. I don't
answer any calls I don't recognize.

------
ThrustVectoring
For one data point, spam calls pretty much stopped when I switched over to
Project Fi for my carrier.

Outside of that, "Do Not Disturb" 24/7, whitelist all your contacts, change
your voicemail message to "I don't check my voicemail because it's constantly
spam, text me", and ignore your voicemail.

------
farnsworthy
[https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/540515367/familiar-looking-
nu...](https://www.npr.org/2017/07/31/540515367/familiar-looking-numbers-are-
the-latest-twist-in-robocalls)

~~~
greenyoda
I get a lot of these calls, and I figured out the pattern very quickly. Since
I don't happen to know anyone with the same areacode/prefix as my cellphone, I
just let all these calls go to voicemail, and none of them ever leave a
message. (My area code is an overlay area code that has mostly mobile
numbers.)

~~~
miranda_rights
I do too! It's very frustrating, to the point that I've considered just
getting a new phone number. The problem being I've had this number for >10
years and like the idea of an old high school friend being able to reach me
without Facebook. Someone online suggested I make a complaint to the FCC but
it went nowhere. I never pick up anymore but it's still annoying.

~~~
greenyoda
I wouldn't expect that getting a new phone number would help. I'm guessing
that these scammers sequentially call all the phone numbers in an area code
rather than targeting specific individuals. (If they were targeting me, they'd
probably stop wasting their time after the hundredth time I didn't answer
their call.)

------
astrodev
I don't know how to stop it, but I think someone should go to jail for doing
this.

~~~
taf2
Try nomorobo

------
rosege
Not a great solution for bulk calls but you could always divert to Lenny -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/itslenny/](https://www.reddit.com/r/itslenny/)

------
exabrial
You may not be able to stop them, but you can certainly annoy them to all
hell: [http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/](http://www.jollyrogertelco.com/)

------
tyingq
Sometimes, it's repeated calls from the same number. In those cases, both
Android and IOS have some solution to block it. If it's truly random incoming
numbers, then, yeah, you're stuck.

------
undersuit
I get two or three calls a week where they hang up as soon as I make a sound,
even a little clapping will do. If you call them back it is of course "my
bank" with urgent info about my account.

------
JoshMnem
Scam robocalls happen to me almost daily. I've tried blocking one of the
numbers, but the calls from that number still ring on my phone. The calls
appear to be using bandwidth.com's API.

------
MiddleEndian
Same issue here. Unless I am expecting a call I keep my phone on Do Not
Disturb. My friends and family know how to reach me.

------
nicomfe
easy, tell them you are under 18, they wont call again

