
Should computer scientists keep the Lena picture? - ingve
https://lemire.me/blog/2017/11/10/should-computer-scientists-keep-the-lena-picture/
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deadmetheny
In my opinion, it seems logical to not use it as a standard image anymore,
since it's not particularly professional to use nudes for such things (even if
tasteful), but it should also not be swept under the rug due to the historical
significance and the fact that Lena herself is not troubled by its usage[1].

[1]
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/lennapg/lenna.shtml](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/lennapg/lenna.shtml)

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Theodores
Lenna is okay with it.

I was introduced to the Lena image in 1992. My scientist boss gave the reasons
for the image being used as to do with the fine details in the feather bit,
the spectrum of colours plus skin tone. He was not aware of the provenance of
the image.

We also had the baboon and I still use him to this day.

The one I am missing is the Landsat image of the Bay Area.

In 1992 we did not have the www. Or search engines. So there was no way to
learn the back story if you just had the image. So we should not judge those
that worked with image processing systems and only had a dozen test images to
work with.

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thothamon
I reluctantly agree that in the context of a classroom discussion, a
sexualized (even if SFW) image is not ideal, primarily because it's a
distraction from the subject. I also recognize the point that technical
disciplines have enough trouble attracting female participants without making
the problem worse.

I feel reluctant to admit this because there always lots of people more than
ready to be offended by anything, and giving in to their demands encourages
them to demand the next thing. The author acknowledges this can go too far,
and it is a slippery slope. So I only agree with reluctance, in this one case,
that the best thing is to drop the Lena image.

But to me, the author goes too far. Avoiding any "needless" offense would have
many people walking on eggshells all the time in an unnecessary effort to
appeal to the unreasonable. Life is rough. Unless we are completely boring,
sterile people with not a single original or interesting thought, we're bound
to offend and be offended. Instead of trying so hard to have everyone like us,
I think it would be preferable to expose people to many, sometimes offensive,
perspectives, and to have vigorous debates about them.

Giving offense is not a virtue in itself, but stifling ingenious or even
interesting thoughts merely to avoid giving offense is a vice. The people
among us worth emulating are not those who will go to great lengths to avoid
giving offense, but those with a passionate and unique perspective -- people
who are willing to offend, if need be, to communicate those thoughts.

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chrisra
Absolutely not. It's not like there isn't a million other images that work
just fine. It's a symbol (even if most people don't know) of the
objectification of women, that is pervasive in a field that struggles enough
with treating women fairly.

~~~
jhanschoo
I do agree that a nude pic is unprofessional and that it is sufficient grounds
for discontinuation, but I disagree with your characterization of its symbolic
meaning.

I think that there is benign and beneficial pleasure to be had in a limited
objectification of any sex, in the appropriate contexts; (e.g. in pornography
and sexual work, in idol worship, in sexual kink-play, etc., with willing and
informed participants). It's just that this is not an appropriate context.

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syphilis2
Matthews answers that the Lena image is a part of Computer Science culture.
Lemire answers that there is no benefit to using the Lena image above other
similar images, but there is damage since it offends some people. Neither
argument is convincing. Memes like Lena shouldn't be actively encouraged since
that would corrupt their natural propagation: Lena (and its origin) would be
forced in front of people rather than discovered, and would be resented for
that. Meanwhile "Getting Along" (Lemire's usage) sounds more like kowtowing
and is not how CS prospers. CS prospers by being accessible, open, inclusive,
and exciting, not by shaming members over moral trends. Resources are
abundant, and Lena is not so pervasive as to obstruct participation.

Computer Scientists should use whichever images they personally enjoy, since
they're the ones seeing those pictures each day. Anyone else can and should be
offended as much as they are at any other poor coding practice.

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jdonaldson
Here's Lena attending the IS&T Conference in Boston in 1997 :
[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/lennapg/lenna_visit.html](http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/lennapg/lenna_visit.html)

It wasn't the scene of a victim confronting her attacker. It wasn't a media
event highlighting gender issues. It was just two people finally getting a
chance to meet.

Would it be ok if Lena made this into a gender issue talking point? Yes. Is it
ok that she didn't do that, and went solely because she wanted to see what the
fuss was about? Yes.

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abhishek0318
Can someone tell me how this photo is offending to some? Am I missing
something?

~~~
djur
It's a cropped version of a nude photograph from a pornographic magazine. Some
people consider it unprofessional to use sexualized depictions of people in a
technical context where sexuality is not relevant.

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DonHopkins
Does "AI:HUMOR;VICKI BODY" get grandfathered in, too?

NSFW: MS C0LLINS - 0UI - FEBRUARY 1973:
[http://its.svensson.org/HUMOR%3bVICKI%20BODY](http://its.svensson.org/HUMOR%3bVICKI%20BODY)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause)

~~~
mercer
Is the nipples being marked 'A' and 'B' part of the joke?

~~~
DonHopkins
As far as I know, those were not the points of the joke.

I noticed them for the first time yesterday too, after not noticing them for
decades!

As a teen, I'd printed it out, pinned it up on my wall next to the Cray-1
centerfold, and scribbled a bunch of modem phone numbers, user names and
passwords all over it, and never even noticed.

I did a quick search for other A's and B's and found that it used those
characters as much as any other character for shading, but that sure seems
like something some mischievous student, lab member, turist or sentient TECO
script at the MIT-AI Lab might have done.

There was no file security so anyone could have edited them in.

Maybe one of Minsky's grad students was performing some A/B testing or eye
tracking experiments.

Somebody should ask RMS if EMACS had some special mode for editing line
printer porn.

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krapsna
People REALLY like high quality pictures of attractive, naked people. What
should we use as a reference image to judge how well compression algorithms
reproduce an image?

Hmm... how about a SFW version of what the compression algorithm in question
is going to be applied to. Over, and over, and over, and over again?

Sounds like the proper choice to me.

