
A Non-Conformist's Guide to Success in a Conformist World (2014) - igonvalue
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2014/07/a_non-conformis.html
======
toothbrush
This guy sounds less like a non-conformist and more like a _really_ self-
centred sociopath. I don't necessarily say that in a derogatory way though,
and most of his advice, if pragmatic, sounds unsurprising. I think it boils
down to "don't be a tool to other people's faces".

I mean wow, this quote: "Treat your family fairly, but remember that relatives
- especially older relatives - are the lords of empty threats. Despite all
their criticism, they probably love you too much to do more than nag you." One
would think he's doing a hostile takeover of a company!

~~~
verbin217
I've come to exactly that conclusion about my family. I love them but frankly
their concern for me translates into very little benefit for anyone. Also
their criticisms were largely born of themselves and served primarily to limit
me.

~~~
busterarm
Same, but I'll take it one step further.

I have never had an actual _conversation_ with my own mother (single parent
home) who is now in her 70s. Every attempt at a discussion has always ended up
without her actually trying to listen and heaping on (berating) criticism that
is either coming from her own shortcomings/fears (and she's a very fearful
person) or she'll interrupt me and heap on criticism based on what she thinks
I'm going to say. At least that's how it's been since I was too big for her to
continue to beat me.

There hasn't been a shred of concern for my own interests and goals and in my
30s I don't expect that to change from her. She's been trying to break up my
older brother's marriage for near 20 years (after successfully driving his
previous partner away and a few of mine). She wasn't invited to my brother's
wedding and if I ever meet someone that I care about again, she will not get
to meet them. Ever.

If I were more cynical, I would say that every time our goals aren't lock-step
with her goals for us, she makes a concerted effort for us to fail, but I
imagine that she really thinks she has the best of intentions. She is just
crazy.

So sure, love your family, but that doesn't mean your family is good for you.
If your family isn't good for you, limit their ability to do damage in your
life. If you can't do that, cut them off.

~~~
ta140604
To you and other people in similar situations:

[https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists)

a community of (and for) people dealing with similar problems.

(Not diagnosing your mother, but, let's say, a lot of actions look familiar)

~~~
hga
Also check out this less well known disorder (did not become official because
of unrelated political reasons):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder)

My mother isn't entirely like busterarm's, but I recognize plenty of
similarities, maybe mine has more self-discipline.

------
sarciszewski
What exactly makes you a non-conformist?

    
    
        - Do you wear your pants on your chest and shirts on your legs?
        - Do you actively proclaim that pedophilia is perfectly acceptable?
    

In my opinion, non-conformist is just another label, which sounds awfully
conformist when you think about it.

Some people conform for stupid reasons (e.g. a need to feel accepted), but
sometimes you find a group of like-minded individuals with similar interests.
What then? Do you conform or not? What if you earnestly have the same
interests?

Simple solution: How about just do/like whatever you like, and don't try to
make everyone think you're a special snowflake? Because the majority of people
in the world frankly don't give a shit.

You like 70's music? You like trashy horror flicks? You like furry art? Good
for you. Continue to like it and stop trying to cast it as a radical act.

~~~
verbin217
"How about just do/like whatever you like, and don't try to make everyone
think you're a special snowflake"

So... be a non-conformist? A non-conformist maintains a notion of themselves
as such not because they're trying to be a special snow-flake. They need a
concept with which to analyze their problems. It's actually _really_ hard to
just do what you like and get away with it. Like you said, "the majority of
people in the world frankly don't give a shit." No one out there is trying to
figure out how to reward you for something they don't understand. Even if it's
insanely valuable. There will always be rewards for simply adapting yourself
to an existing concept. Anyone not doing that pays a significant penalty for
which the conformist world is entirely ignorant. They won't care and they
won't help you deal with it. Hence, non-conformists converge-on but don't
necessarily conform-to this stereotype. The one in the corner complaining
about the conformists.

------
hugh4
The most conformist tendency I've noticed on the planet is this: that every
single person on it considers himself a nonconformist.

Most of us just congratulate ourselves on our nonconformist privately though,
not publically, like this guy.

~~~
Sven7
:) True. Apple and Obama you could say are the gold standard.

~~~
verbin217
Apple actually tends to inspire conformity and not to practice it.

~~~
mojuba
Apple inspires conformity to their own non-conformism :)

------
calibraxis
Ironic that every author pic on that site seems to show at least a dress
shirt, and commonly a suit. (I'm sure it looks nice, but such clothing
undeniably is used to signal conformity, and these authors conform to a dress
code.)

Then, "Most workplaces are not democracies. This is very good news..."
advising: "make yourself invaluable to key superiors, who will in turn protect
and promote you" and "Spend the first year of any job convincing your employer
he was right to hire you..."

(He's right, workplaces are unusually totalitarian: top-down dominance
structures. Hence advice to pleasure your boss.)

These right-wing "libertarians" are conformists. To recruit, they clumsily
imitate social justice movements (like anarchism) where people actually do
challenge the status quo. Their arguments against democracy rely on
misconceptions like "US is a democracy"; or "democracy=voting", instead of say
consensus.

~~~
keithpeter
Yes, I saw the stock photo with the suit/tie. But then the text does mention
shorts/pumps. So I imagine that the stock photo is an example of conforming in
small details.

Quote from item 12: _" Modern societies are huge, anonymous, and forgetful."_.
Perhaps not so much in the future?

Item 15 was lovely. I'm off out now on a nice autumn day in the UK to find
some awesomeness. There is Rugby, and the trees are turning colour.

------
austinjp
tl;dr: choose your battles; work hard; kiss ass. Doesn't feel very non-
conformist to me. However i do like his appreciation of the role of luck,
although even that was cursory. All a bit self-congratulatory, and not much to
surprise.

~~~
coldtea
> _tl;dr: choose your battles; work hard; kiss ass. Doesn 't feel very non-
> conformist to me._

It's the Horatio Alger school of non-conformism...

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
That gave me a chuckle. I see a little Machiavelli and some Sun Tzu in there
too though.

------
collyw
How exactly is this guy a non-conformist more than anyone else? Not liking
sport at school?

~~~
yummyfajitas
If you read his blog regularly, you'll realize he is an advocate of a variety
controversial ideas: open borders, natalism, the educational signalling
theory, the idea that how you raise your children (within normal non-abusive
bounds) is irrelevant.

~~~
vezzy-fnord
_natalism_

I was under the impression the opposite was the controversial idea.

~~~
yummyfajitas
I'm not aware of very many "serious people" advocating having as many kids as
possible on the grounds that children are fun.

------
ZenoArrow
The importance of non-conformity is basically zero.

If you enjoy something, does it matter how many or how few feel the same?

Sure, it's nice when you have shared interests with others, but it's doesn't
matter if they're not. Your interests do not have to define who you are, do
not have to define how you interact with others. Preconceived notions of worth
based on popularity will only cloud your view of what's enjoyable to you.

~~~
coldtea
> _If you enjoy something, does it matter how many or how few feel the same?_

It can be a sign of how original your thoughts are and whether you were just
conditioned to enjoy that something, plus whether there's a huge universe of
other things there (even more enjoyful and/or benefitional) that you were not
told about as you just go with the flow of other people/fashion/etc.

~~~
ZenoArrow
"It can be a sign of how original your thoughts are"

I'm not trying to be intentionally difficult, but what does it matter how
original an idea is, why measure it in that way? Is the idea satisfying,
that's more interesting.

~~~
coldtea
Original as in "yours", not as in "unique".

And it's important if you believe that living your life as a non-questioning-
anything person that automatically follows what everybody else does and
doesn't explore other avenues is not the optimal way to live it.

If you don't believe that, then it doesn't matter how original an idea is.
Heck, in that case, as long as you're OK with it, then doesn't even matter if
you're living in some religious sect, conditioned by some BS-artist leader to
do whatever he wants.

Originallity is something for us people who believe that finding the "real
you" etc is worth it to worry about. If this sounds circular it's because it
is. Ultimately lifestyle choices come to a value judgement not dependent upon
other things.

~~~
ZenoArrow
"Originallity is something for us people who believe that finding the "real
you" etc is worth it to worry about."

Worth worrying about? Nothing is worth worrying about.

I think we both agree that it's good to have an open mind, but we disagree on
the importance of originality. I don't care if an idea is mine or yours or
anyone else's, I don't care if it's the first time anyone has thought about it
or whether it has been thought of a million times before, the only question
for me is is the idea satisfying, is it an idea I enjoy.

There's a difference between a compelling idea and the source of that idea. If
I've come up with compelling ideas before I don't see that as 'me' or part of
me. Genius can come from anywhere and from anyone, it's not a measure of your
worth as a human being. The best you can do to encourage it is to be open to
it, to prepare yourself for ideas that are new to you.

~~~
coldtea
> _Worth worrying about? Nothing is worth worrying about._

If we start from that premise, death, life being meaningless etc, maybe. But
in that case replying to my comment is not worth it either, and me replying to
yours even more so.

So clearly we either take this conversation as people who think there is stuff
worth worrying about, or we don't have it at all, and go either have fun or
kill ourselves.

> _the only question for me is is the idea satisfying, is it an idea I enjoy._

Would you be OK to be confined for the rest on your life in a hospital bed,
being fed a drug that would make you enjoy your every moment tremendously?
From your perspective you'd be totally happy. You might not enjoy some part of
the idea now, but you'd totally enjoy it when given that drug. Would you go
with that?

If not, then you agree with me that enjoyment is not the be all end all in
life, so whether an idea is "satisfying" is not "the only question".

> _There 's a difference between a compelling idea and the source of that
> idea. If I've come up with compelling ideas before I don't see that as 'me'
> or part of me. Genius can come from anywhere and from anyone, it's not a
> measure of your worth as a human being._

Again, I'm not talking about original as in "unique"/genius or whatever, but
in original as in "autentic" (yours).

The distinction between taking your own decisions or merely and with little
resistance and pause following fashion or what your father told you or what
the official at the church of scientology or the cool kid at school told you
to do...

~~~
ZenoArrow
"If we start from that premise, death, life being meaningless etc, maybe."

I believe life is what you make it, the value you get from it is directly
related to what you put into it. So in some sense, life can be meaningless if
you choose to make it so, and life can be meaningful if you choose to make it
so. Some people don't like that view, which is fine, variety is the spice of
life.

"But in that case replying to my comment is not worth it either, and me
replying to yours even more so."

I'm not debating with you because I'm worried, I'm debating because it's fun.

"So clearly we either take this conversation as people who think there is
stuff worth worrying about, or we don't have it at all, and go either have fun
or kill ourselves."

So the alternatives to worry are to either have fun or kill yourself? I think
you're a little confused about what self-reflection is, self-reflection and
worry are not the same thing. For example, it's possible to self-reflect and
laugh at the absurdity of your own views, it's possible to self-reflect
without passing strong judgement, etc... .

"Would you be OK to be confined for the rest on your life in a hospital bed,
being fed a drug that would make you enjoy your every moment tremendously?
From your perspective you'd be totally happy. You might not enjoy some part of
the idea now, but you'd totally enjoy it when given that drug. Would you go
with that?

If not, then you agree with me that enjoyment is not the be all end all in
life, so whether an idea is "satisfying" is not "the only question"."

I find it interesting that you mix satisfaction with falsehood. However, if
you change the question to... Would you want to live a life where you
regularly encountered moments that were genuinely satisfying/fascinating, then
the answer would be yes, I would want that, I believe that'd be fun.

"Again, I'm not talking about original as in "unique"/genius or whatever, but
in original as in "autentic" (yours).

The distinction between taking your own decisions or merely and with little
resistance and pause following fashion or what your father told you or what
the official at the church of scientology or the cool kid at school told you
to do..."

Let me put it to you like this, can an idea that started from someone else be
just as good for you as one that started from you?

------
x5n1
Americans believe in myths about their non-conformist culture. Fact is that
all cultures are highly conformist. And Americans are highly conformist in
their highly consumerist culture that expresses non-conformity as a key aspect
of the culture as a way to stimulate thought and creative destruction.
However, at the same time there are huge barriers to taking full advantage of
the non-conformist culture which is mainly money. To get money you have to
conform, and to get more money you have to conform even more... while at the
same time being individualistic and non-conformist in your thinking.

~~~
cpkpad
Conformist lets you hit 6 figures easily. Going beyond, non-conformists have
the advantage.

------
benihana
I couldn't tell if this was real or satire until the last sentence. I mean, it
reads like not very subtle satire - like a 14 year old snowflake on tumblr
wrote it. But people in the comments there and here are taking it seriously.
And it's really not that much of a stretch to believe someone in Academia
would actually think this way and publish it.

~~~
johan_larson
The word that comes to mind is "self-congratulatory".

------
zero-rated
Anyone who wants a _serious_ non-conformist guide should absolutely,
definitely read Disciplined Minds[1] by Jeff Schmidt. What an important book.

[1]
[http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0742516857/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=...](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0742516857/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1443389466&amp;sr=8-1&amp;pi=SL75_QL70&amp;keywords=disciplined+minds)

------
littletimmy
I quite dislike when people think of themselves this much.

I'm a non-conformist / I'm a conformist / I'm an introvert/ I'm an extrovert /
I'm a xyz / I'm an xzy...

No one fucking cares. There's self-reflection, and then there's self-absorbed
blowing your own trumpet. The latter is decidedly repulsive. Coming from an
Asian culture, I notice that Americans are particularly inclined to be this
self-absorbed, wonder why.

