

Ask HN: Best place to start in San Francisco? - Azuldolphin

My partner and I are going to be leaving our current job and moving from NYC to San Francisco to join the startup community in December. We're looking to find a studio that we can share for around $1000 a month. <p>Does this sound reasonable? What areas do you guys recommend we check out? We're planning on staying with a friend when we get there while we check out places in person. How long does it take to find an apartment in december?<p>Also, any other advice about living in SF would be great. We're planning on using bicycles and public transportation to get around. Do you think we'll need a car?<p>A little more about us- we're two guys in our mid 20s working for a software company in NYC area. We like our jobs, but have concluded there's not much room for growth, and we'd like the freedom of working for ourselves. Any stories of other people doing the same kind of thing would be great!<p>Last thing- this is a throw away account, since we haven't yet told our employer that we're leaving. 
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wuster
I moved from Seattle to SF in 2008 and have lived in 3 places in the city.

Border of Bernal Heights / Mission district - shared a Victorian with 2
roommates, paying a total of $3700. Large house, more space than what we knew
to do with. 10 min walk to the Mission & 24th BART. Neighborhood safety is
spotty - my car was broken in twice that year.

6th and Howard - $3200 for a 3br (cramped) apartment. Very nice foot commute
if you happen to work for in the SoMa or financial district. Very close to
Westfield Mall and downtown shopping. East/West wise, the difference between
5th and 6th is _vast_. North/South wise, I would consider Folsom street the
south end of the shadiness in the Tenderloin Market area, so we didn't quite
avoid the crackheads and homeless. One night some homeless guy broke into my
car and slept there. The stories of some guys laying turds on the street in
broad daylight are true, I've seen it, I've smelled it, I put up with it as a
neighbor for a year. If you have lady friends, it's not a very nice place to
invite them over to. I can only describe 6th and Howard as an eyesore.

25th and Judah in Sunset district - I moved here in August. Really love the
proximity to the park and ocean. I'm from Seattle so the fogginess is fine,
don't see what the big deal is if you just want to live well and work on your
hobbies. Cheap food, safe neighborhood, win.

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maxawaytoolong
$1000 is a bit low, I would expand to $1200-$1500. (that said I had a studio
for $1000 right by GGP, but I had it for quite some time)

I lived in SF for the better part of a decade, all over the city. I would say
the best quality of life is to be found if you live off of the "N Judah"
streetcar line. It's easy to get to the beach, inner richmond, outer richmond,
golden gate park, castro, noe valley, Hayes Valley, fidi, SoMa, BART,
Embarcadero, etc off of this line.

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kroger
You mean $1000 total or each? If total it's probably on the low end and expect
to pay more. Check craigslist to have an idea of price. You can get around by
bike, public transportation or walking, but it's not a bad idea to either have
a car or rent one from time to time to travel around the bay area. (highly
recommended!)

As for recommendations of places, my advice is to stay with friends in the
first days like you said, look around and see the places you like. You
probably can rent a place in 1-3 weeks.

~~~
Azuldolphin
Yea, we were hoping for $1000 total, for a small studio. What price range
should we expect to find?

Please keep in mind we have no idea what the neighborhoods are in SF, so
please include that as well.

~~~
smokestack
Tenderloin/Mission/Sunset are places you _might_ be able to find something for
a grand.

Tenderloin - stabby stabby. Mission - on the dirtier side, a little sketchy in
parts, but trendy and experiencing lots of gentrification. Sunset - lots of
asian influence, very livable. You'll very rarely see the sunset from here
though.

You might even be able to find something in Richmond for a grand if you're
lucky. Just keep an eye out, set up alerts on padmapper.com. I found a $1400
one bedroom in a nice part of the city there.

~~~
jimmyjam
I'll have to respectfully disagree. The TL is sketchy, but there are so many
crackheads/witnesses/cops around since it's close to city center, overt
violence is more rare than you'd think.

The mission is my favourite district in the city, and it's close to
everything. If I had to live in the city, I'd live in the mission.

The sunset is crap. It's like a suburb that's attached to the city, especially
outer sunset, where the rents are cheaper. It's blocks and blocks of houses,
and very family oriented. There are a few good places in the sunset, but it's
almost essential to have a car there, and you can't really go bar hopping, and
it's about 20 minutes to drive to downtown.

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LeBlanc
If you are trying to save money, you should consider living in Mountain View,
San Jose, or the east bay. Living in the city is fun and will be the most like
NY (you won't need a car), but it will also be more expensive. I know people
who live in Mountain View and Palo Alto who get by without a car, but it is
harder. There is also not nearly as much fun stuff to do outside of the city,
but that also means less distractions from your start-up.

Good luck with your start-up!

~~~
Azuldolphin
Thanks for the advice but we're really leanin towards living in SF. After
living in NYC for 3 years I think I'd go crazy living 45 mins away, and
needing to get around by car.

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_delirium
Only an answer to a specific part, but as far as needing a car goes, in SF you
don't, but you likely will if you plan to visit people/companies/events in
Silicon Valley. It's _possible_ to get to something like DevHouse
(<http://superhappydevhouse.org/>) by public transit, but it's often a hassle.
If it's only occasionally, though, you could sign up for a service like City
CarShare or ZipCar.

~~~
Azuldolphin
I actually am considering picking up a scooter when infer there, as I've
already got a motorcycle license. Does anyone have experience getting around
on one in sf? Is it possible to make it out of the city to somewhere like
mountain view / San Jose on a scooter, or does it require going on high speed
highways?

~~~
maxawaytoolong
A scooter would be a fun way to get around SF.

It's theoretically possible (I think?) to get to San Jose on local roads but
it would take so long it would be impractical. It wouldn't be much faster than
bicycling there.

I had a motorcycle in SF and found the freeways to and from the South Bay
terrifying on a motorcycle. You can lane split in California, though... so a
motorcycle is probably the most practical vehicle for getting over the Bay
Bridge in rush hour...

~~~
_delirium
It's not _too_ terrible to get all the way up/down the peninsula on local
roads, but it does take a while (~2 hours). The directions are easy, though,
because El Camino Real (CA-82) goes the whole way.

~~~
maxawaytoolong
Yeah, CA-82 was what I was thinking of. But even driving a car on CA-82 from
SF to MV(?) takes 2+ hours (I actually don't remember where I was coming from;
just that it took forever). Riding a motorcycle would suck because of all the
stops and starts. A scooter might actually be better for this as the step
through design makes it a bit less painful to wait at intersections.

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dmak
I honestly do not get what is so great about SF. If you lived here long
enough, you guys would realize how boring it is. If you want IN-N-OUT that is
not overpriced (like Fishman's Wharf) then you go to Daly City. If you want
Krispy Kremes, Daly City. If you want to go Bowling, Daly City. However, there
are bars and the clubs here for the night life.

If you're getting a studio for $1,000. I guarantee you it will be small,
especially for two people unless (read below). Now let me tell you about
Sunset. Around 19th street (the main street) is the most expensive and safest,
but as you go closer to the ocean the housing is noticeably less great. Trust
me on this.

A tip on housing, not much people know about this, so listen up. You will find
better housing if you post in the wanted section. I found a few places that
were really nice at $1500 excluding utilities (but utilities ended up around
~$70 with dryer and washing machine) and including DSL with two bedrooms. Like
how you like to pick your housing, owners like to pick their renters. So, put
something nice in your description when you're posting in the wanted section.

~~~
corysama
Thank you for the confirmation regarding why I prefer to live in SF rather
than Daly City. Different strokes, I guess.

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noisebleed
A lot of people will suggest avoiding the Tenderloin (as you can see in the
other comments), but I know several people who live there and haven't had any
particular problems. Yes, there's a bit of a zombie infestation, but as long
as you keep your wits about you and don't stumble around drunk at 3am you'll
likely have no problems. It does get sketchier the closer you get to Market,
so a little further up in "Lower Nob Hill" (aka the "Tendernob") is a better
choice overall.. still fairly cheap, centrally located, and not quite as
rough.

If it's feasible in your situation, I'd definitely recommend subletting for a
month and getting a feel for the different neighborhoods. December isn't the
greatest time to look for places since most people aren't moving unless they
have to, so the extra time would also be a big benefit.

~~~
stevenp
I agree. I lived for a year at Geary and Taylor (technically Tendernob) and
the rent was great ($2k for a 2-story apartment) and I had no problems
whatsoever.

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ryanwaggoner
If you're determined to life in SF, don't want to have a car, and want to be
reasonably close to where most tech events happen (SOMA), I'd recommend "lower
nob hill", which is a nicer way of saying the northern part of the tenderloin.
The northern borders would be Pine or california, and the southern borders
would be Geary. I wouldn't go any farther south than geary, and the closer to
union square, the better. There's studios in that area to be had for $1200 or
so. You can always go out the sunset or the richmond, but then transportation
becomes a pain and there's nothing out there.

Also, if you're trying to minimize expenses, you're probably better off
finding a 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom and getting another 1-2 roommates, as the
price of rentals doesn't scale linearly with the number of bedrooms.

------
tylrdotorg
I'm a software developer who lived in San Francisco. I highly doubt you'll
find anything for $1,000 in the city. You can get a studio in San Leandro for
$950. For $1k you can probably find a nice room share in just about any
neighborhood.

I highly recommend not having a car. Parking is a nightmare in San Francisco,
I actually find it much easier living in Williamsburg/Brooklyn. Renting a
space is anywhere from $125-250 per month.

I really enjoy living in the sunset, but it's always overcast. I also lived in
SOMA and the heart of the Mission. I would advise against SOMA.

You need a bike. San Francisco cyclists are well respected by drivers and once
you learn the routes (ie, the wiggle) you are set. It's the fastest way to get
around the city.

Good luck

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frenetic
I moved to SF from NYC five months ago. I moved the SOMA neighborhood, and
love it. Go to any coffee shop here and it's full of entrepreneurs working on
stuff. So many of the big startups in SF are in the area. I pay 700 for a huge
room in a shared apartment. I kind of lucked out. I live somewhat near the
"shady" part of 6th st, which people will tell you to stay away from. You have
to remember that people in SF are prudes though. You're coming from NYC. You
can handle homeless people and a crazy person here or there.

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fido
I'm in the process of moving from Austin->San Francisco and I've been using
PadMapper to see apartments per neighborhood. Once I find a place I think is
cool, I click over to google maps and "explore" a bit with street view.
Incredibly useful...

I also use google maps to check transit times on Caltrain to various SV
locations. Include times from apartment -> transit stops -> final location,
etc etc to get a good feel for total travel time to events/meetings.

Good luck!

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jtchang
A lot of people comment how the Tenderloin area is bad. I frequent the area
and have friends who live there and overall if you can put up with the
numerous bums, crackheads, and general craziness it is doable.

The area near Geary and Larkin or O'Farrell and Larkin isn't too bad. It is
super busy at all times of the night. I do see a lot of car breakins in this
area though.

------
Azuldolphin
Also, can anyone speak to the social scene of the different neighborhoods?
Since we're not going to know anyone when we get out there it's important that
we live somewhere where we can make friends either through good bar scenes, or
startup meetups. Does anyone have experience moving to Sf without knowing
anyone and making friends?

~~~
janj
I moved to SanFran with my girlfriend without knowing anyone about 8 months
ago. I live in between the Mission and Noe, on Guerrero St. I still don't
really know anyone outside of my job but it's a great area full of friendly
people. You can easily strike up casual conversation with most people in
Doloros park. I joined a couple meetups and met some good people but then got
to busy at work and haven't attended any in a while. There's noisebridge on
Mission St where you could go hang out and meet some people.
<https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge>

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dolphin
I'm Azuldophin's partner, on a throwaway acct. Everyone's advice has been a
great help so far. One thing to add, how would you compare certain
neighborhoods in SF to ones in NYC? It would be great to have some context
that we could relate to. For example, it sounds like the Mission roughly
equals a more grungy Williamsburg.

~~~
frenetic
mission = williamsburg/bushwick

soma = far west chelsea meets bushwick

haight ashbury = st. marks place

nob hill = upper west side

financial district = financial district

union square = lincoln center

that's all I got.

------
kroger
Also, check the comments here for "Garry's SF Guide to Where Your Startup
Should Be":

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1510553>

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geuis
The closer you get to popular neighborhoods, the more expensive.

Avoid the Tenderloin and Bayview/Hunter's Point. Yes, they have cheap rent.
They also have high crime rates, drug usage, etc.

Some of the most inexpensive but nice areas to live are in the Sunset(near
Ocean Beach along the N-Judah MUNI line) and Twin Peaks. The problem with Twin
Peaks is that you get a great view and slightly lower rent, but there are no
trains that go up there and limited MUNI bus lines. You're also not quite next
to any popular places, so its not as easy as walking out your front door to go
to the bar.

I live in Lower Haight near Haight St & Filmore. I'm paying about $1000 a
month for my house that I'm sharing with one roommate. However, I only have
this lucky situation because I've lived here for 3 years, and my old roommate
for 2 years before that. So I've basically inherited a lower rent.

Craigslist is the primary place to find apartments in SF. Be aware of the
occasional scam. If you see postings that are too good to be true, i.e. low
rent for an otherwise awesome place, be wary. Typically when you reply to
these, you will get an email a day or so later where the person is saying they
are out of the country and that after you make the deposit, they will mail you
the keys. No, no no no no. Stay away from these scammers.

One of your best bets would be for you and your roommate to find one or two
other people that are either looking for people to fill vacancies in a house,
or looking to get a big house together. There are many houses in SF that have
3-7 rooms, so often you can find inexpensive rooms like that.

You might also have luck with the last idea yourself. Given the number of
people on HN that live in or around SF, you and your buddy might be able to
hook up with some locals and rent a new house together, or might even find
suitable vacancies in a geek-friendly house. =)

Here's the craigslist link you want to use
<http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa>

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ashitvora
I would suggest you to find somewhere in Palo Alto area than SFO.

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michaelhalligan
It's a super dump, but you can get a studio for $1k/month at Trinity Plaza on
Market St. Expect to lose your deposit from what I'm told, but hey it has a
pool, and plenty of meth dealers, and it's right at Market & 9th so it's
central to everything.

But seriously, for $1k -> $1,200 you can actually find a decent studio on nob
hill. I just helped my ex-girlfriend move into a beautiful and very well-laid
out 450 square foot studio for $1,100/month at Clay & Leavenworth with all
utilities included.

