
Smoking around the world - dmarchuk
https://ourworldindata.org/smoking
======
bunderbunder
Obligatory bikeshedding:

It's really frustrating that, in the first two visualizations, whose only
difference is that one shows data for women, and the other shows data for men,
they chose to use two different color scales. It makes it difficult to compare
between the two.

For example, if you weren't paying close attention to the scales, you might
easily get the impression that a greater proportion of women than men smoke in
France and Chile.

~~~
pzone
There are all kinds of quirks and questionable decisions in this presentation.
It's good data but I found myself doing a double take every other chart.

------
slazaro
It seems that it's impossible for people to show charts without making
mistakes in data presentation. This website is literally for showing data, and
I'm not an expert and I still see errors all over.

For instance: Secondhand smoke deaths by age [0]

They show absolute numbers. You can see that for 70+ year olds, the quantity
is increasing at 2016 compared to 2010 and 2005. But, how do we know that it
is because the rate is increasing, or just because there are more 70+ year
olds? If they had shown each age range divided by the total amount of people
in the age range, it would have prevented this.

Every time I see absolute numbers in any kind of data visualization,
immediately an alarm goes off I start to analyze whether that makes sense or
they needed percentages, and many many times they messed up.

[0] [https://ourworldindata.org/smoking#secondhand-smoke-
deaths-b...](https://ourworldindata.org/smoking#secondhand-smoke-deaths-by-
age)

------
tjr225
Isn't it incredible how much the smoking culture of America has shifted over
time? If only the forces who put the anti-smoking effort into motion could
come together and work towards making renewable energy, alternative commuting
methods, or universal healthcare acceptable ideas in this country.

I used to smoke a pack a day and I'm glad I don't anymore.

~~~
dfee
Over the weekend a friend of mine pointed out that while nicotine use has
dropped, cannabis use has heavily increased. As if, the rise on tobacco prices
has driven folks to alternative drugs.

I wonder (and if someone on HN knows how, please share) if you were to track
use and abuse of pills, stimulants (including things like 5 hour energy),
cannabis and other forms of what’s becoming not-so-recreational drug usage —
what would we find?

~~~
nkozyra
Well at minimum we mostly know that alcohol and tobacco are on the higher
level on the "harm" spectrum than other illegal drugs.

My takeaway is American drug usage has been shaped by a lot of socio economic
factors that do not have human or societal health ramifications. There needs
to be a total, science-backed overhaul of drug policy for this reason.

~~~
dfee
> Well at minimum we mostly know that alcohol and tobacco are on the higher
> level on the "harm" spectrum than other illegal drugs.

I don’t know who “we” is, but don’t count me in that group.

[https://unitedrecoveryproject.com/10-most-dangerous-
drugs/](https://unitedrecoveryproject.com/10-most-dangerous-drugs/)

And that’s by frequency.

[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/from-
krokodi...](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/from-krokodil-to-
purple-drank-the-worlds-10-most-deadly-street-drugs-a6719541.html)

That’s by potency.

Sure. Don’t get me wrong. Nicotine is bad for you, so is Alcohol, but it
doesn’t make you do this:
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_cannibal_attack](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_cannibal_attack)

~~~
toomanybeersies
I'm not going to trust an article that says that using ketamine gives you HIV.

~~~
dfee
You probably shouldn't trust any information thrown at you without critical
thinking (including the first three articles that came across my Google
search).

------
elorant
I quit the damn thing some 13 years ago and I've never looked back since. Best
decision I've ever made. Earned back my life, I'm in my mid forties and my
physical endurance is way better than what it was in my twenties. The thing
that most smokers don't realize is that smoking is like taking heroin. You're
addicted to a substance that's slowly and silently killing you. Just a couple
of years ago I lost a very good friend of mine from lung cancer. He was
smoking three packs a day and the cancer ended him in less than six months.

To anyone reading this as a smoker. Quit the fucking thing. You won't miss it
and there are ways to quit that aren't as harsh as cold turkey. Just seek
medical advice and move on.

~~~
ams6110
My dad was a smoker most of his life. He quit in his 50s. Years later I asked
him if he missed it, and his answer was "every single day."

~~~
eadmund
I _love_ tobacco. It smells wonderful (no, not cigarettes: tobacco itself, as
anyone who's ever smelt pipe smoke will confirm). It tastes delicious (albeit
not as good as it smells). It feels wonderful. It even cuts down on appetite,
which is a plus in this day and age!

I quit smoking for love, but I miss it every time I think of it. Nonsmokers
have no idea what they're missing. It's sheer bliss. The sooner we can figure
out how to have noncarcinogenic smoke, the better.

~~~
KozmoNau7
I really enjoy the smell of pipe tobacco, and some pipe smoke is actually
rather pleasing.

Personally I would still never smoke, if nothing else because I've had to
clean out the tar and gunk from old televisions and stuff. That shit is nasty.

------
toomanybeersies
Is that right that the USA has fewer smokers than New Zealand and Australia?

New Zealand and Australia have made massive efforts to reduce their rates of
smokers. They both have plain packaging, tobacco products aren't allowed to be
visibly on sale (in New Zealand, they won't even tell you what they have, you
have to guess and hope they have it in stock). They also have the most
expensive tobacco in the world. A 25 pack of Marlboros will set you back AU$32
(US$23).

That doesn't seem right that the USA, which has in general put a lot less
restrictions on tobacco and has much cheaper tobacco, has a lower incidence of
smokers than Australia or New Zealand.

Anecdotally, most daily smokers I know aren't smoking 20 a day either.

~~~
e40
_A 25 pack of Marlboros will set you back AU$32 (US$23)._

I don't smoke, but a pack in CA is, according to DDG, US$8. For comparison, 25
x US$8 = US$200.

~~~
ddeck
The comparison is US$23 to US$8.

In Australia, it's US$23 for a pack of 25 cigarettes. Not a carton of 25 packs
of cigarettes.

~~~
aplummer
I actually really like that cigarettes are so expensive the above poster made
that error.

------
alkonaut
What's going on in Indonesia? Men are increasingly smoking like chimneys,
while the rest of the world is more or less on the same downward trend.

It only being men also suggests it isn't a suddent economic change like
lifting tobacco taxes. Some cultural change suddenly made it cool for _only_
men to smoke (again).

Is Mad Men running on every channel?

~~~
rmm
I work in Indonesia a lot and that data makes sense.

Every man I know smokes. That's not an exaggeration. It's ridiculously cheap,
and with incredibly low income for most of the population, its the only vice
that's allowed for most people.

A couple of guys on an island in the middle of nowhere once said it helps with
the mosquito's (they also keep large fires lit for the same reason) but not
sure if anyone else thinks that.

~~~
Scarblac
And none of the women?

Do they all smoke kretek cigarettes?

------
mtrovo
I remember one of the big chocks for me when I arrived in Germany from Brazil
was to see how common is to see people smoking, not only in the street, but
inside bars, clubs.

My state in Brazil banned cigarettes inside buildings when I was very young so
going out and coming back smelling like a chimney was like going back in time.

~~~
Kurtz79
Not sure how it is now, but when visiting Germany a few years ago it was also
weird to see tobacco normally advertised on billboards, while it is illegal in
most EU countries.

~~~
KozmoNau7
Germany has toned it down a lot, but they still have cigarette vending machine
at most train stations and randomly scattered around towns, at least in
southern Germany.

------
point78
Very disappointed in EU here! Such a disgusting habit that kills and leads to
large quality of life loss later in life.

Needs to be severely reduced or banned altogether.

Seeing 15 year olds smoke is a huge societal failure.

~~~
chosenbreed
> Very disappointed in EU here! Such a disgusting habit that kills and leads
> to large quality of life loss later in life I agree in part but the
> libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want to
> their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole. For
> example banning smoking in offices, public buildings, spaces, etc is a good
> thing. Banning people from smoking in their own garden is not.

> Seeing 15 year olds smoke is a huge societal failure. Yes and no. General
> trends suggest they are smoking less and drinking less alcohol compared to
> previous generations. It probably just stands out more relative to the
> general population. Alas, youth is lost on the young :-)

~~~
shady-lady
> the libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want
> to their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole

society is burdened in the 50% chance scenario that they develop lung cancer,
alongside other medical problems which smoking exacerbates as well as being a
contributory factor to others.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
People die of something. It costs no matter what that is. So there's some
extra cost since they're dying sooner (maybe?) It's more complicated than
'Hospital costs!' since those are pretty unavoidable no matter how you die?

~~~
shady-lady
We generally don't shoot people in the head when they've been diagnosed with
lung cancer so society doesn't save any money there. So the extensive
treatment required to treat lung cancer is greater than somebody not getting
treatment because they don't have lung cancer.

To be more succinct, there's a large difference between a person requiring
lengthy treatment for lung cancer(hospital + morgue) before ultimately dying
compared to somebody dying due to old age(morgue).

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Nobody dies of 'old age' any more. They die of something that was under
treatment in general. That's all.

------
matonias
What is up with the daily cigarette consumption in Suriname? 108 cigs a day
can't be a normal average right?

~~~
Jaruzel
I spotted that! Considering that only 6.1% of people smoke in Suriname, and of
that 6.1%, 0% are men, and 0% are women... I'd say there's something up with
that data.

------
paulie_a
While I quit daily smoking years ago I will never give up cigars. Even my
doctor has zero issues with that. According to the CDC there is essentially no
risk even smoking up to five a day. I am definitely substantially lower than
that though.

~~~
flukus
> According to the CDC there is essentially no risk even smoking up to five a
> day

No risk or unknown risks? Last I looked into it there was no research on the
health effects of smoking < 5 cigarettes a day either.

~~~
dageshi
There are some risks in terms of your mouth/lips. Cigars are a lot less
harmful because it's customary not to inhale them, you can obviously but the
vast majority of cigar smokers don't. They also appear to be far less
addictive than cigarettes, personally I would say they aren't addictive at
all, during the winter in the UK I don't smoke any for 3-4 months, during the
summer I only smoke a couple a week.

------
c3534l
Why on Earth did they shade the percent of men smoking darker than the women?
That means in countries where about the same proportion of women as men smoke,
which is most countries, the female map is colored as having a higher
percentage than men because they made the key identical minus 10%. This makes
me irrationally angry.

~~~
nubbins
I was trying to figure out why countries had more women smoking than men which
I’ve never observed anywhere, with regards to smoking or really any dangerous
habit.

~~~
pmalynin
Actually, as some one who grew up in Ukraine I did see somewhere that there,
teenagers had more girls smoking that boys.

------
dghughes
The worst part is lung diseases often take decades to appear. People who quit
smoking after doing it for a few decades may be hit with COPD late in life
just when they can least afford it. Compounding other health problems they may
already have.

COPD: "Long-term exposure to lung irritants that damage the lungs and the
airways usually is the cause of COPD." \- nhlbi.nih.gov

I worry about the vaping trend I think there is going to be a massive amount
of people diagnosed with COPD in 30 or 40 years.

~~~
duxup
Always hard to know with science in the news but I thought that there was some
good science that showed that even quitting late in life significantly reduced
the risk of smoking related illnesses compared to those who did not stop. I
thought that was quite interesting that even after say 30 years you could
change the odds fairly dramatically.

~~~
dghughes
I've seen that too something like "after an hour your blood pressure returns
to normal. After a few days you can breathe easier..."

It's always good to quit but as with genetics people are different. A few rare
cases where a person smokes until their 90s and never seems to be affected.
But I'd say most people who smoke are not so lucky. Sure maybe in the short
term and yes it's great for the ex-smoker and the people around them but late
in life illnesses pile up and COPD is a big risk.

My dad smoked but quit around age 30 now he has two lung diseases: COPD and
IPF. It's possible one or both are related to his work as an oiler on a ship.
He was always around fumes, dust, paint, exhaust but his smoking probably had
a lasting effect too.

------
jageen
In India they show vary serious warning message with photo on each cigarette
box ,

but I did not see the same think in Japan (I am not sure about other
countries)

~~~
ahansen
There are massive warnings on the packs in New Zealand. I believe they can't
use any branding at all on the packs in Australia.

~~~
squiggleblaz
They can include the brand name in Australia, but the format is precisely
specified including valid fonts and sizes. Names are also regulated so they
can't imply a health claim (like afaik "Mild").

It would be instructive to do an image search for "Australian cigarette
packaging" if you want to see exactly what they look like. I gather a lot of
smokers like to use boxes to put their cigarette boxes in so they don't have
to see them, but I don't know any smokers so that's just hearsay.

~~~
rmm
As an Aussie smoker with friends who also smoke, the packaging makes
absolutely no difference to us. It was an oddity when it happened, everyone
spent time comparing which photos were the most disgusting and now its just
background.

Also people buy smokes they like the taste of, the packaging/brand had/has no
effect on what people buy.

~~~
KozmoNau7
But is that not simply the perspective of someone who has already smoked for a
number of years, and who doesn't really care about the presentation?

As far as I understood, the point was to make the packaging less enticing to
potential new customers?

------
sergers
Price per pack or as the chart outlines 25 cigs, seems to be wrong for Canada.

A single pack can cost 11$ CAD to 15.50$ CAD, with cartons costing ~100$ or
higher.

Where as in the US you can find 5-8$ pack, and cartons as low as $30$ USD.

The chart shows Canada and USA in the same price/color category.

Canada has been taxing more, and price keeps going up to curb smoking.

Currently trying to implement basic plain packaging.

I would say alot of teens are skipping cigs and straight to vaping. Where as
many adults are quiting cigs or switching to vaping.

I also know of people who increased cannabis use to cut down/stop smoking
cigs.

Someone else noted the effectiveness of nicotine... Which is misunderstood. I
am someone who use to smoke a pack a day, to vaping for oral fixation.

My nicotine intake increased with vaping, but the satisfaction was not the
same.

The satisfaction in cigs comes from mix in nicotine and increase in carbon
monoxide in blood stream mainly.

If anyone is trying to quit, suggest reading: Alan Carr - easy way to quit
smoking. Has helped many people including myself in understanding the
sensations and what little control it has over you really.

------
mc32
What's odd about this is that women in "richer" countries smoke more on
average than women in developing nations, but conversely, when it comes to
men, men in developing nations smoke more on average than men in developed
countries...

~~~
dyarosla
This could be explained by women in developing nations simply having the least
amount of money out of all of these groups and not be able to afford it-
otherwise I could imagine women in developing nations would also smoke more
than women in developed nations.

~~~
in_cahoots
There might also be more of a social stigma against women smoking. In the West
smoking amongst women was portrayed as dangerous and sexy, while for men it
was just part of a hard day’s work. That sort of marketing would translate
better for men than for women in more traditional cultures.

------
paxy
I have anecdotally observed much higher rates of smoking among friends and on
the streets in South Asia (mainly India) vs. USA, but interestingly the data
seems to indicate the opposite.

~~~
sateesh
A few points about smoking in India: * Ban on smoking in public places,
streets is not strictly followed at all * Cigarettes are available in every
nook and cranny. There is hardly a road side tea shop that doesn't sell
cigarettes * Cigarette sticks can be bought (as against buying a entire pack),
more so in road side tea shops

------
userbinator
Would be interesting to see the same data for vaping.

------
duxup
I forgot where I heard it but there was a discussion on the radio that
indicated that smoking in the US was for a long time was done more by the
wealthy... and then the trend shifted to the wealthy quitting and the poor
smoking more.

There was also a lot of questions regarding nicotine being used to cope with
other issues since nicotine is pretty effective.

------
cstrat
I wonder why in Australia, where cigarettes cost the most, the 'taxes as a
share of price' is also not the highest on the map.

The tobacco companies just charging more and blaming the tax... Turkey,
France, Chile, Finland have tax contribution of over 80% !!

------
melenaos
This is so sad for Greece and for us who doesn't smoke

------
andrenotgiant
What is going on in Chile?

~~~
zjaffee
It's really interesting, they have a much higher percentage of people who
smoke, but the number of cigarettes they smoke a day is far less than even in
the united states.

------
mixmastamyk
One of the few things I despised about traveling in Europe was people smoking
inside like it was the 70's. Almost lost it over a couple puffing away in the
dairy section of the super market, managed to keep my mouth shut.

Shame because I otherwise loved my time there.

~~~
kbart
First of all, as other comments have mentioned it's really not a common sight
in Europe. Actually, I haven't seen anybody smoking inside a supermarket
during my whole life living in Europe (>30 years) and traveling there
extensively. Secondly, even if it were common, your indignation seems strange
as you come to a different culture and judge people according to your customs.
Do you honestly believe that the whole continent should suddenly start
behaving differently just because you went traveling there?

~~~
atlasunshrugged
Agreed, although my time here in Europe has been much more brief (moved to
Berlin in 2017 then Estonia 2018) I've never seen anyone smoking in a
supermarket or nearly anywhere else inside in Europe with the exception of
Berlin bars which are egregious offenders but I would consider an anomaly in
W. EU at least

------
chilledheat
Mauritania in Africa had the highest number of cigarettes smoked every day in
2012 ( more than 40 a day ) but the number of deaths from tobacco smoking was
in the lowest..

Is this skewed data or do a lot of people die there for other reasons?

