
Is Windows 10 still telling what you're doing even if you don't want it to? - LinuxBender
https://www.zdnet.com/article/is-windows-10-still-telling-microsoft-what-youre-doing-even-if-you-dont-want-it-to/
======
guelo
As a longtime Windows 7 fan that refused to upgrade until I finally bought a
new laptop with it I have been absolutely shocked by Windows 10's aggressive
user-hostility.

The way they reset settings after forced upgrades should be criminal.

The way the user has no control over certain Microsoft processes unless they
have been lucky enough to be allowed to pay for a Group Policy Editor license
should also be criminal.

The ads, the nags, the surveillance.

It is not an operating system I can use anymore. They have lost me for life.
I'll be switching to Mac and Linux from here on out.

~~~
131012
What enrages me most is the fact that they ask us to f __ __ __* pay for it!

The implicit deal with Facebook, Google and other free services is that you
pay them with their data. Fine.

But paying for being spied on? This is scam pure and simple.

~~~
linuxftw
There's a (more than one, really) wonderful free operating system alternative
that you can install on almost any PC. At the very least, you can dual boot.

Critical mass starts with you.

~~~
wink
Please don't act as if Linux was a viable alternative for everything. It's
not. I appreciate trying to prod people, but this came off very elitist.

\-- someone who's been using Linux since 1998, Linux desktops for work stuff
since ~2008 and has more machines with only Linux at home than ones with
Windows, but still spends the majority of recreation time on a Win7 box
because not all games run nicely with Wine, or at all.

~~~
Nerdfest
While not a 'normal' user as such, I've used only Linux at home and at work
(Win VM at work occasionally for rare corporate stuff). I develop software,
control my guitar amp and audio equipment, play video games, do photo
processing, watch videos ....

No, it's not a viable alternative for _everything_ , it's damn close. Valve is
doing some incorporation of Wine into Steam that should make many "Windows-
only" games play effortlessly.

Don't use Linux if you don't want to obviously, but complaining because you
can't play _all_ games written for a completely different OS is a valid
complaint. If you know people that are concerned about surveillance and
privacy, don't scare them away. At least tell people about multi-boot.

~~~
VRay
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that anyone surfing HackerNews for fun
can easily get their favorite games working in wine, so I'm not sure who that
guy is warning off

~~~
wink
Games that kinda need to run at 30-60 fps. Games that came out recently.

------
fusl
As far as everything on the internet tells me, GDPR was made for exactly this
reason, to prevent this kind of data collecting without the users consent. But
what is happening instead is that small companies, starrups, etc. are getting
fucked over by the sheer amount of "rules" they have to follow and implement
while large companies can get away with collecting everything and anything,
leaking personal user data all over the place, etc.

Conclusion: GDPR was made to help monopolies grow even larger and prevent
smaller companies/start-ups from ever growing more than just a little bit.
Change my mind?

~~~
Wowfunhappy
GDPR really should only apply to companies beyond a certain size. Or at least,
the requirements for small companies should be less stringent.

~~~
Justsignedup
That would be exploited SO FAST!

Embed my 1-person company's widget. I will collect everything and send it to
big boys.

Same way as you funnel money through a shell corp to avoid taxes.

~~~
Wowfunhappy
In the US, we have rules to stop this sort of thing for e.g. background check
data. If you collect personally identifiable information from a third party,
it's the same as if you collected it yourself.

------
mixmastamyk
The recent MS behavior is baffling, like one suffering multiple personality
disorder. Policies both customer-friendly and actively hostile at the same
time. Leadership really needs to get everyone "on the same page" (groan) and
decide if they want to stick with being evil or not.

~~~
linuxftw
Agile software development practices. Nobody created a user story for 'respect
user's settings during upgrades'. If I had to guess, the settings were
renamed/refactored and default values were enabled by default. Or perhaps the
'system upgrade service' doesn't talk to the 'system user setting services'
and has no way to discover those settings.

There's so many innovative ways to write terrible software, Microsoft is truly
a pioneer in this area.

~~~
sls
.

~~~
linuxftw
Come'on I was taking a shot at dogmatic agile beliefs and Microsoft in one
swing!

I mean to say that strict adherence to 'agile' without qualified engineers and
management results in obvious features missing because the left hand isn't
talking to the right hand. The jab at Microsoft is to imply they employ such a
detrimental process because it's the only conceivable way to arrive at such a
poor quality product.

I don't think Microsoft is engaging in what it believes is predatory behavior,
I'm confident that someone in a suit somewhere is cooking up all these 'good
ideas' about collecting 'metrics' and their underlings faithfully implement
these 'good ideas.'

Their behavior is bad, I don't condone it. I also don't use Microsoft products
(see username).

------
nickjj
I don't get it. This article and Reddit post is very misguided.

Why are people upset that you're sending data to Microsoft if you enable the
settings in Windows that specifically allow Microsoft to collect this data?

Maybe I'm biased since I run Windows 10 Pro but you can simply turn off
activity history and set your diagnostic settings to basic. Now your non-
anonymous data won't be sent to MS (unless they are secretly sending it
against your will which is a totally different topic than this article).

I don't even have a "privacy dashboard" that this article and the Reddit post
speaks of because I log into Windows with a local Windows username, not a
Microsoft Live account. If you're concerned about privacy, why would you login
to your OS using a Microsoft Live account?

This really sounds like people using the default settings without looking into
protecting their privacy then saying Windows is evil because they didn't check
into the settings of their operating system.

In other words:

1\. Use a local Windows login, not MS Live

2\. Set your diagnostic data to basic

3\. Disable activity history

Also as a bonus step, if a big content update happens in the future and it
introduces features that sounds like it's an invitation to be spied on, double
check your settings after patching to make sure they're disabled.

It is lame that telemetry exists in the first place, and don't get me wrong, I
hate things like being forced to patch / reboot for MS updates but if you
volunteer to use Windows, it's the price we have to pay for the time being.

~~~
ep103
4\. Install Latest Windows Updates

5\. Find that these settings have been set back to enabled again.

6\. Repeat Steps 4 and 5 every Tuesday.

7\. Discover MS is still sending data, regardless of your settings.

^^ The above is why.

~~~
nickjj
Those are shady steps taken by MS but I don't experience them with Windows 10
Pro. Maybe it's only isolated to Windows 10 Home?

I still double check all of my privacy settings after a major content patch,
but so far so good. I keep nearly everything disabled too (basic diagnostics,
limited access to my webcam / microphone, Cortana is disabled, no timeline,
etc.).

~~~
tvanantwerp
I deploy Windows 10 Enterprise and I routinely see the goofiest of settings
set back to defaults.

~~~
handzbagz
Enterprise LTSC is what you want, no store, edge and other junk and only
security updates.

------
fromthestart
So Windows is sending browsed URLs to Microsoft? What exactly is "data about
recently opened websites?" What data specifically?

~~~
craftyguy
Your web history is still 'data'.

------
gigama
Yeah I stopped using Windows years ago. However my clients still get stuck
buying 10 on new computers. I try to explain the downsides but mostly they
resign themselves to it since they don't want to learn a new OS.

Best I can do is only setup local accounts for them, turn off OneDrive, and
have them run O&O's shutup program periodically (like monthly) to help
mitigate Microsoft's pervasive, invasive data collection:

[https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10](https://www.oo-
software.com/en/shutup10)

Still not 100%, but a dripping faucet is better than the default firehose of
telemetry tracking.

------
zwaps
They now say this is related to the diagnostic level set to full.

This is clearly not true. I have disabled ALL privacy related settings, set
activity X to off and have the level set to basic since install.

Microsoft still displays search queries and apps I used on the activity
dashboard.

Clearly someone "messed up". (Collect now, apologize later)

~~~
craftyguy
I mean, at this point, you're only hurting yourself by continuing to
use/support a product which does things you do not want, right?

------
ajmarsh
I've been using [https://github.com/hahndorf/Set-
Privacy](https://github.com/hahndorf/Set-Privacy) with good success. Automate
with the orchestration tool of your choice.

------
blub
Another nail in the coffin of MS telemetry apologists.

Really, MS is freaking evil when it comes to this stuff. Wonder which asshole
greenlighted this huge telemetry push. Must have been sanctioned from the very
top.

~~~
miaklesp
If you don't like, just don't use.

~~~
scarygliders
Indeed!

Typing this response from my Debian Testing system. I'm needing Windows less
and less. Now that I can run Elite: Dangerous using WINE, I don't even need
Windows around as a game OS. I can develop my applications in the Debian
system and if needed I can boot a Windows 7 or 8 VM to produce a Windows
distribution of said application (Python, PySide, Qt).

Basically, everything I need to do I can do whilst not booted into Windows.
I'll keep that Windows 10 partition handy to boot, just in case. Otherwise,
I'm free from its shackles.

~~~
small_island
I agree. I'm on Linux and BSD now for good. The fact that MS bought GitHub was
alarming enough. Their desire to get involved with Free/Libre/Open Source has
an agenda. I don't think it's as innocent as it appears.

------
neves
I try to use the buggy Windows 10 Microsoft family screen time features to
control how my children use the computer. Unfortunately it is a global
configuration. I must also allow Microsoft to collect my data.

~~~
huxflux
2018 - when convenience conquered piracy.

