
NayuOS – Chromebooks without Google - frequent
http://www.nexedi.com/blog/NXD-Document.Blog.Nayu.Os.Introduction
======
AdmiralAsshat
I'm curious to see what this fork is doing to differentiate itself from
Chromium OS.

Nonetheless, the more forks, the better. I think Chromebooks are great.

~~~
CCoffie
It looks as if they are just removing all the connections to Google services
and making the chromebooks developer friendly with things such as git and npm
preinstalled.

~~~
nayu
You're right in a sense.

On Chromium OS derivatives, there is a "guest" mode, which is not linked to
any Google account and is like a browser "Private Browsing" (Firefox) or
"Incognito mode" (Chrom*). We want to use it daily, and are doing this and by
using/developing JavaScript applications, and by adding our favorite packages
to NayuOS.

There is no way to add custom packages on Chrome OS (and we don't want to use
Chrome OS because of privacy issue anyway).

We also share the binary images for some Chromebooks (not all right now,
sorry). This is not the case for Chromium OS, that you have to build yourself.

(By the way, npm is not available right now).

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convivialdingo
I've been playing around with Freon on ChromiumOS - it's really a nice
solution to pushing pixels fast and I prefer its simplicity to that of Wayland
or Mir. The performance I get out of an ARM GPU is very good.

Only problem I have with my Chromebook is the screen stinks.

~~~
yebyen
How have you been playing with Freon, if you don't mind my asking?
Specifically wondering, does it expose some GLES context that you can work in,
is that passed through, or is that reserved for the compositor... if you have
anything at all to share I'd be interested in that.

My tale of woe, which is really OT in this thread, is that I've been trying to
get an Enlightenment WM to operate in accelerated mode on my Samsung Exynos-
based chromebook that has a Mali T-604 graphics chip.

Enlightenment says it can support accelerated mode with either an OpenGL or
GLES driver, so my impression is this should be technically possible (even if
it can never be done in an X server running alongside Freon). I have got free-
standing Xorg to run very fast on ALARM Arch Linux, using framebuffer driver,
and Arch which provides a decently recent Enlightenment... but damned if I'm
able to get the two to talk together and let the WM acknowledge the graphics
capabilities of the hardware.

I know this has nothing to do with Freon but I am curious what you're doing
with it nonetheless, and I saw an opportunity and thought I might be able to
corner someone with more knowledge and get some answers at the same time.

~~~
dTal
I have a similar tale of woe as you. I bought my Samsung xe303 specifically as
a kind of budget Macbook Air to run desktop Linux on (I currently use an EeePC
which is roughly half as powerful). I haven't tried Enlightenment, have to
give that a go; the only window manager I could find that supported GLES was
KWin, which actually runs but is quite unstable. I've also experimented with
various OpenGL wrappers, with varying success.

It's a pain because it's a really nice bit of kit but I haven't managed to
make it practical as a desktop machine. I also would be interested in what
it's possible with Freon.

I am _really_ surprised there isn't a "just works" prebuilt image for ARM
Chromebooks. Its absence suggests to me that nobody has figured this out, yet.

~~~
yebyen
I know some of the Enlightenment core guys, and of course some of them work
for Samsung; I've brought it up to them and it's safe to say that this is not
a priority business case for them. They are all great folks, but with Samsung
driving the train, I think this is no longer exclusively a volunteer project
or necessarily strictly a labor of love for everyone anymore.

That being said, it should work. I've successfully installed the dev kit from
ARM-MALI support which provides Ubuntu + Mali T604 drivers on an SD card or
USB (this was a herculean effort, despite the instructions in question being
made specifically for the specific device I have).

I haven't repeated this experiment, but I'd like to try again. I'd feel the
chances it would work would be higher on Arch, where software is kept more up-
to-date than on the ancient kernel and OS that ARM documentation suggested
(it's Ubuntu, but not the current release, or even the current LTS release.)

You probably already found this page[1] -- r6p0 seems to be newer than when I
tried last, maybe you also saw this one[2] -- the best "from-scratch" resource
I've found that results in a working graphics driver, but good luck getting a
modern release of E20 to compile on that... perhaps it could be upgraded
without breaking everything.

This thread[3] I haven't visited for a while, but that chronicles my journey
pretty well, at least prior to the point where I was trying ALARM or Arch
Linux for ARM.

The arch install guide[4] is probably your best bet for what you wanted. I was
able to get framebuffer driver installed and hosting the fastest yet (non-
accelerated) enlightenment version 20 without compiling anything, and without
any really complicated setup steps. I haven't found anyone who is using the
accelerated drivers on Arch, the reason might be that they are closed-source
and compiled for a specific (obsolete) kernel version.

There are scripts for compiling enlightenment, if you were going to set out to
compile it from git head for yourself, by the way[5]. Don't worry they're
called "e-nineteen" \-- the latest git head is in fact e-twenty. They should
work on any recent Ubuntu or Debian release, don't know about Arch, but you
will at least need to take out the line that checks for a specific Ubuntu
release to get that to work. May need some specific compile-time flags for efl
or enlightenment also. I read something about sun-xi the Open-Source GLES
driver for Mali, but it seems to be intended for other chipsets than the T604.

I would thereby hazard a guess that you're right, and in fact nobody has
figured this out yet.

[1]: [http://malideveloper.arm.com/resources/drivers/arm-mali-
midg...](http://malideveloper.arm.com/resources/drivers/arm-mali-midgard-gpu-
user-space-drivers/)

[2]: [http://malideveloper.arm.com/documentation/developer-
guides/...](http://malideveloper.arm.com/documentation/developer-
guides/graphics-and-compute-development-on-samsung-chromebook/)

[3]:
[https://community.arm.com/thread/6477](https://community.arm.com/thread/6477)

[4]: [http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/samsung-
chro...](http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/samsung/samsung-chromebook)

[5]:
[http://gitlab.metrixmatrix.com/kingdonb/e-nineteen](http://gitlab.metrixmatrix.com/kingdonb/e-nineteen)

~~~
yebyen
The doc I linked on [2] looks like it's been updated within the last 2 months,
this seems to be where they are keeping the most current notes. Probably
updated for the new r6p0 driver. I'd start there, if I was working on this
right now.

It also looks like they moved on to 14.04, or my memory about which LTS
release was used was incorrect; in any case, there is at least a ghost chance
that the current Enlightenment will compile in this context, and at worst
these docs will help show you which kernel you need to use in order to make
the graphics drivers work.

Maybe these instructions and kernel drivers can be adapted to a current
release of Arch for ARM?

------
tantalor
> We gave our fork of Chromium OS a new and fitting name: "NayuOS".

Huh? What's a "Nayu"? How is that a fitting name?

~~~
nayu
NayuOS is related to the chinese word "Nayu" which implicitely means "Open the
Universe". Nayu is also the name of Nexedi subsidiary in China, in Shanghai
Free Trade zone.

~~~
jessaustin
That's awesome, that there's a word for an action that from a logical
perspective is a no-op.

~~~
nayu
Actually, it is a combination of "na" (inspire/open/...) and "yu"
(universe/world).

------
hollerith
I always wondered why I saw many dozens of references to the Wayland project
(from writers who think it might be a good idea to replace X) and no
references, until today, to the idea of turning ChromeOS into something more
like a regular Linux-based desktop/laptop OS.

(ChromeOS does not rely on X but rather has its own windowing system developed
by Google.)

Writers hopeful about Wayland love to talk about how Gnome or KDE already
supports of will soon support Wayland, despite the fact that for a
desktop/laptop OS, support from one of the major browsers is much more
important than support from Gnome or KDE. (Yes, I know that Gnome _includes_ a
web browser: that browser will not work however with all or even most of the
sites a typical user needs to visit.) And it is far from certain whether any
of the major browsers will ever run on Wayland (without XWayland or some other
large X-compatibility library that relies on X) whereas of course one of the
major open-source browsers already runs reliably on the windowing system and
low-level graphical libraries in ChromeOS.

~~~
baghira
Firefox works on Wayland _now_. So, unless you have redefined Firefox as a
non-major browser, "is far from certain whether any of the major browsers will
ever run on Wayland" is flatly wrong. Also: [https://github.com/01org/ozone-
wayland](https://github.com/01org/ozone-wayland)

And the obvious point is that turning ChromeOS into a full linux distribution
defeats the point of ChromeOS itself: to have very few "moving parts", and
only those necessary to launch Chrome. Also, the bulk of the work "for
wayland" is not wayland itself: it is KMS/Mesa/glamor/libinput, which are
already used by ChromeOS (except for libinput, I think).

~~~
hollerith
Can I run Firefox on Wayland _without_ X, i.e., without XWayland or some other
compatibility layer which includes most of X's source code files?

If so, do you know where I can download it?

>turning ChromeOS into a full linux distribution defeats the point of ChromeOS
itself: to have very few "moving parts".

Just because that is why Google created ChromeOS does not mean that those of
us uninterested in Google's vision cannot bend it or parts of it to other
purposes. It is after all distributed under open-source licenses.

------
gnidorah
Making it targeted only for Chromebooks makes it really inaccessible for
masses. I would prefer to use my Thinkpad anyway, and not to throw another few
hundred bucks on a Chromebook that is technically inept. Why couldn't you
provide a generic image with Linux firmwares added? Like ArnoldTheBat does
(and Neverware for its CloudReady, but its a closed product) with his build:
[http://arnoldthebat.co.uk/wordpress/chromiumos-special-
build...](http://arnoldthebat.co.uk/wordpress/chromiumos-special-builds/)
Things like "It was not reliable because of problems due to unsupported
hardware (such as trackpad issues, ...)" will fly away and you will get a new
blood of users and devs to your project. Probably you could also tweak kernel
config for better hardware compatibility or set of kernel features, since all
in all its a fork and you have total control over it.

------
marssaxman
Thank you for doing this - it makes Chromebooks seem much more appealing as a
hardware platform.

Do I understand correctly that this removes the need to hold down a special
key combination every time you boot?

~~~
honua
I have Ubuntu on my Acer C720 and it boots straight into it without any key
combination - the Arch Wiki is where I found how to do that

~~~
marktangotango
I also have an acer c720; I totally de-chromed mine, and installed xubuntu
14.04, sounds like you may have done the same? I've been very happy with it,
however the other day I was contemplating upgrading to 16.06 when it comes
out, but the thought of going thru all the steps again (to reinstall the os)
and the prospect of getting something wrong is a strong deterrent imo.
Although most steps are documented, it's still a distraction from what I want
to be doing, ie developing software.

~~~
honua
Yeah I agree that getting it all to work nicely can be a big distraction,
though unfortunately I've had similar experience with Linux on most hardware

------
tomaspollak
Nice project, congrats!

More than pre-installing packages I think it would be great to have a
(working) package manager by default. That way users are able to choose
whatever floats their boat.

I've been using Linuxbrew[1] (a Homebrew clone for Linux) on a Chromebook for
a while, and it's _the_ reason why I can actually use it for something else
than browsing. It's a perfect fit if you need to install development tools or
libraries.

[1] [http://linuxbrew.sh/](http://linuxbrew.sh/)

------
devsquid
Sweet its cool to see people building off of the Chromebook idea. This says
its geared towards developers, however I can't find what exactly that means?

~~~
yebyen
On the face, it looks like it comes with some important tools like git, npm,
nodejs, ... preinstalled. Some tools for handling detachable crypto
filesystems also might come in handy.

The Chromebook is actually a very developer-friendly platform, with a few
notable exceptions; one of these is the dearth of software and difficulty of
installing things in the developer-mode user's Crosh root shell.

This one neatly sidesteps that (from what I can tell) by installing a few
tools you will probably need, and making every user logon happen in Guest
mode. Therefore you'll have to get accustomed to connecting your external
(possibly encrypted) user files if you want to do development work.

Basically take the popular paradigm of doing all of your "overhead/setup" work
on vagrant hosts with chef scripts, and flip it over on its head.

------
petra
It's a bit strange. Usually Chinese companies don't play well with open
source. And now this ? is there place for suspicion?

~~~
nayu
Nexedi is an international company with offices in France, Germany, Japan and
China ([http://www.nexedi.com/contact](http://www.nexedi.com/contact)), and
NayuOS is made with much Free Software love. :)

~~~
petra
Thanks. Good to know. And cheers for your product , very good idea.

------
pepijndevos
Can you install this without opening up your Chromebook and flashing new
firmware? Last time I looked into running anything but ChromeOS it seems you
have to desolder a hardware write protection.

And if this works without that, do other non-google OSes work as well? My
device is a Asus C300 without the SeaBIOS legacy emulation or anything like
that.

~~~
smbarber
Since NayuOS is still based on Chromium OS you should only need dev mode
enabled to run it. It'll boot the same way that Chromium OS does. Legacy boot
is only necessary for a traditional Linux distro that isn't using the Chrome
OS format for kernel images.

For the record, the write protect is just a screw on Chrome OS devices and
doesn't need to be desoldered.

------
jtblin
Nice idea. No idea if it's even remotely realistic but if you can add Docker
then you can run pretty much everything. There are some ways of adding Docker
to Chromebooks but then you lose all security benefits at the moment.

------
anonbanker
ChromeOS and ChromiumOS are both Gentoo-derivatives.

I just installed Gentoo on my fleet of chromebooks. One install image, takes
about 5-10 minutes to modify/flash/partition/image a device. A lot less
headaches, and runs screamingly fast. I have 12 users, all with the same stock
image, running KDE Plasma 5.5 with Libreoffice and JACK running transparently
in the background (A Poettering-free[0] experience).

Unless you're _really_ new to linux, and _really_ afraid of building a kernel,
Gentoo is a powerful way to learn an operating system, and you'll end up with
a stronger and more personal distribution than anything Redhat or Canonical
could offer.

0\.
[http://www.bloodbathsoftworks.com/xylemon/xlennart.php](http://www.bloodbathsoftworks.com/xylemon/xlennart.php)

------
michaelmior
> We gave our fork of Chromium OS a new and fitting name: "NayuOS".

Can anyone explain why this name is fitting?

~~~
nacs
A rep answered this earlier in this thread:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10996267](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10996267)

------
twog
Looks very neat. Anyone know if this will this run on the original CR-48?

~~~
nayu
Unfortunately, only a few devices that are supported right now, and the CR-48
is not one of them.

