
Uber drivers, if employees, owed $730M more: U.S. court papers - wrongc0ntinent
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-tech-drivers-lawsuit-idUSKCN0Y02E8
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cylinder
I really don't want to defend Uber, but how are Uber drivers employees, yet
taxi drivers and livery drivers have always been independent contractors tied
to a base or dispatchers for decades?

There are a lot of labor abuses out there in America that I wish would get
attention, including contractor classification, but I'm not sure this is one
of them.

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zucoug
Another thing. Do Uber drivers not agree to terms that specify that they are
contractors, not employees. They may think that they should be classified as
employees, but why does that matter if they made an agreement with Uber to act
as a contractor. I don't see how they have any case for damages if they agreed
to be contractors under their own volition.

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gozur88
Contract law is all about the rights you cannot sign away. You can sign a
contract agreeing you are, in fact, a Gibbon monkey, but that doesn't make it
true and it doesn't strip you of any rights a human has.

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CPLX
> You can sign a contract agreeing you are, in fact, a Gibbon monkey, but that
> doesn't make it true

Indeed. I learned this the hard way.

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xatan_dank
This has probably occurred to everyone already, but I think Uber and Lyft are
playing the long game. They're creating a firmly established business model
initially nested in legal grey area and barging forward regardless of the
speeding tickets they may have to pay. Human driver labor will eventually be
replaced by far cheaper machine labor and the challenge of minimizing
contractor/employee expenses will no longer be an issue. They're just racing
to pack the first punch in what will be a gargantuan industry- the final
outcome of the drivers' situation now seems like it will have little effect on
the industry's long-term model.

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skylan_q
"Riders have saved $730 million by using Uber"

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balls187
"Uber has saved $730m by classifying drivers as independent contractors."

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Consultant32452
"Uber paid $730m to its contractors to cover fuel costs and now has to pay
them for it again."

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Buge
This whole $730M amount seems very strange to me.

Surely if they were classified as employees instead of as contractors it would
come with an accompanying pay decrease. If they decided to drive for Uber at
the previously agreed rate as a contractor, wouldn't they also have accepted
the job with a $730M pay cut if it came with a $730M reimbursement of their
expenses?

It sounds like they want to get paid for certain things twice.

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nickff
This lawsuit is not about what drivers want, it is about class-action lawyers
and a named plaintiff getting paid out. You are right to say that the lawsuit
will not benefit drivers, but the lawyers here are not looking to help the
drivers at all. The 730M figure was the largest amount for which the lawyers
could get a class-action case certified against a wealthy company.

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jobu
_"... drivers who contend they should be classified as employees and therefore
entitled to reimbursement for expenses, including gasoline and vehicle
maintenance."_

Isn't all that tax deductible? Uber pays the drivers, and then the drivers
will have to pay back the government since they can't claim it as a tax
deduction anymore. Meanwhile, Uber gets the deduction and gets a tax refund.

There has to be more to this than just mileage expenses, right? Otherwise it's
a huge legal bill for a simple accounting shift.

EDIT: Nevermind - I was confusing tax deduction with tax credit.

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harryh
It's not just an accounting shift. Getting 100% reimbursed for, say, your gas
expenses is a lot more money than getting to deduct those expenses.

A tax deduction is not the same thing as a tax credit.

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Consultant32452
It's only not an accounting shift if it's awarded after-the-fact from this
lawsuit which is a one-shot deal. In an efficient economic model the
reclassified "employer" would lower your future earnings to pay for the fuel
costs they were previously expecting you to pay for. And then it definitely is
just an accounting shift.

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harryh
It's not just about money though. There is a much greater administrative
burden to hire an employee than to hire a contractor.

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maxerickson
I think for large companies administrative burden is pretty much just a matter
of money.

(I had initially said they were fungible, but it only works one way)

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harryh
Sure. But that still makes it more than just an accounting shift. Things will
be _different_ if Uber drivers are employees. It won't just be moving around
numbers in a ledger somewhere.

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cuchoi
What is the definition of an employee?

They are employees because:

\- Uber drivers can be fired.

\- They can't set up their own rates.

\- Have to follow several conditions.

They are not employees:

\- Because they define their own working hours

\- They have no boss (though they can be 'fired' by the company)

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jokoon
Isn't Uber a good example of libertarian ideology?

By the way, can drivers choose their rate?

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chipperyman573
>By the way, can drivers choose their rate?

No

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wnoise
Mostly no. But they can choose to work only when the surge pricing levels are
above a certain point.

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justncase80
This title hurts my brain. I don't even know what it's trying to say.

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douglance
If Uber drivers were classified as employees, rather than contractors, they
would be owed $730,000,000 from Uber as reported by US court papers.

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exclusiv
I think compelling someone to be an employee of a company is stupid and
governments are basically doing this. Not everyone wants to be an employee
which forces you to be managed by the company and have less flexibility with
your lifestyle.

But I suppose those drivers that want to remain independent contractors could
just register an LLC and then contract with Uber. Probably the most sensible
so they could use multiple platforms too.

Then California gets $800 per year per driver for the privilege of running an
LLC. Not a bad strategy for the state. Squeeze the company, the employees and
the contractors all at the same time.

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CPLX
One could make the argument that having our healthcare and basic social
insurance be administered via company payrolls is insane. I might even join
your party to reform that.

But until we do it is disingenuous to pretend there aren't actual issues
raised by Uber's attempt to evade that system.

