
The Nova Scotia shooter case has hallmarks of an undercover operation? - AndrewBissell
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-nova-scotia-shooter-case-has-hallmarks-of-an-undercover-operation/
======
sushshshsh
Excellent, excellent journalism. My takeaways:

1) The Canadian government has more holes in it than swiss cheese. The level
of detail leaked to the public in this one article makes a mockery of the
Canadian government's attempts to keep things confidential.

2) The gunman really wanted to be a cop and seems to have possibly obtained
the ability to do cop-like things by providing information about criminal
organizations in canada (Hells Angels)

3) The gunman appears to have been wired $400,000 by the Mounties in relation
to this work.

4) At some point he lost his mind and killed a bunch of people for some
reason, and the Mounties are saying that they had nothing to do with this guy,
despite the evidence that he was paid $400,000 on surveillance camera by a
source that can likely only be the Mounties.

~~~
blisseyGo
Small correction. The money was $475,000.

The important thing to note in the article is this:

> "The RCMP Operations Manual, a copy of which was obtained by Maclean’s,
> authorizes the force to mislead all but the courts in order to conceal the
> identity of confidential informants and agent sources. > “The identity of a
> source must be protected at all times except when the administration of
> justice requires otherwise, i.e. a member cannot mislead a court in any
> proceeding in order to protect a source.”

So RCMP isn't even telling the truth to the public quite possibly.

~~~
sushshshsh
What's an extra $75,000 between friends? Wonder if it's taxable :)

------
natvod
Quoting from
[https://old.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/hccco0/the_nova_sco...](https://old.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/hccco0/the_nova_scotia_shooter_case_has_hallmarks_of_an/)

> My family uses Brinks all the time to make large deposits and withdrawals
> for business purposes.

While technically true individuals cannot collect from money from Brinks, you
can on behalf of a business (the shooter owned a few).

~~~
jowsie
Worth noting there's several people, a few even claiming to have worked for
Brinks, saying he is mistaken in the further comments.

------
A4ET8a8uTh0
I learned more about Canadian banking system than I expected. The banking for
CIs and agents was especially fascinating. Makes me wonder how the system
works in US. I assume Canada copied US approach. Does anyone here have an
insight into Brink equovalent in US?

~~~
mike_d
> Does anyone here have an insight into Brink equovalent in US

Brinks is an armored car company. He drove into a lot used to load and unload
armored cars making deliveries to banks and filling ATMs, and walked out with
a literal duffel bag full of cash.

For security reasons, private citizens are not allowed to do that. Even bank
employees can't do that. The whole point of armored cars is they bring the
money to you.

Everything about this screams undercover operation.

------
Topgamer7
I am disappointed in the use of the killers name. Most media here in Canada
did not display his name nor picture during broadcast. If you celebritize
their actions you incentivise the other unstable people.

------
AlexCoventry
This seems pretty thin... Isn't Brinks a private security company? Isn't it
possible that someone else apart from Canadian law-enforcement decided it
would be a good way to transfer a large amount of cash?

~~~
mike_d
Think of an armored car depot like an Amazon warehouse. You can't just pop in
and pick up a bottle of hand soap, no matter how big of a customer you are.

Usually, the only non-employees who are allowed to enter are law enforcement.

~~~
Scoundreller
Hehe, reminds me of a story in Toronto.

Before Amazon had free return shipping, someone ordered something super heavy
and wanted to return it. It would have cost a ton of money to ship it back.

Amazon repeatedly said he couldn’t drop it off himself.

So he printed off a Tracking Sheet for a fictitious “ABC Couriers”, put it on
a clipboard and drove it over.

------
smabie
Couldn't it have a non-Canadian operation? CIA, for example? It seems fishy,
and it sounds like maybe a government is involved, by why must it be the
Canadians?

~~~
bawolff
I guess the question that comes to mind is, what would be the motive? That is
if you are implying this was an attack by a foreign government (and not that
he was a foreign spy who just coincidentally went nuts).

I suppose if it was spies there could be a lot non obvious going on behind the
scenes. At face value though i cant see who would benefit from this.

~~~
sneak
Following this attack, several common and popular models of rifles were banned
nationwide in Canada.

~~~
bawolff
True, but i have trouble seeing that as something worthy of international
espionage

------
ufmace
Well that's super weird. A few things stick out to me:

That sounds like quite a lot of money. Much more than I would expect the RCMP
to routinely hand out to anyone as a payment. And we don't know for sure it's
actually from RCMP. If it was, I wonder if it was meant to be buy money for
some kind of controlled buy of drugs or weapons. Was he even involved in
large-scale drug trafficking? I guess they aren't saying exactly what their
relationship, if any, was with him.

Some are claiming that this suggests that his mass shooting was a planned
false-flag operation. But if it was, why give the guy a huge pile of cash in a
way that would look suspicious later? If you wanted to organize a false-flag
mass shooting, I would think it would be much easier to find some random
nutter of questionable stability that you could wind up and talk into it. I
wouldn't think giving him half a mil in cash would factor into the plan. If it
was, better to have a cop pick it up from Brinks and give it to him in a
parking lot somewhere or something like that.

The money seems to have disappeared too. If it was really his money, you would
think some family member would be a lot more interested in recovering it.

~~~
blisseyGo
We don't even know if he's actually dead or not though.

------
jacquesm
That size cash transaction would immediately lead to red flags and should have
been reported with FINTRAC:

[https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/reporting-
declaration/info/...](https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/reporting-
declaration/info/rptstr-eng)

If it wasn't that by itself suggests something illegal.

~~~
brandon272
The article addresses FINTRAC and how the transaction would have been cleared.

~~~
tonyarkles
Specifically that the RCMP also runs FINTRAC, and when they’re paying CIs and
agents, they let their buddies in FINTRAC know ahead of time so that the
transactions can be processed manually.

------
Tiktaalik
It's a sad state of affairs that while the fact that the shooter was working
for the RCMP is a good explanation for the fact that the large number of red
flags around his illegal weapon ownership and spousal abuse was ignored, its
no better of an explanation than the fact that the police generally are
terrible and don't care.

------
PhantomGremlin
More info about the shooter and the shootings:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nova_Scotia_attacks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Nova_Scotia_attacks)

------
shigawire
I checked this post when it was first submitted and the only comments were
arguing this article is proof of a false flag. Now they are near the bottom
but I wonder if the several like-minded comments immediately after submission
were coordinated or a coincidence?

This level of conjecture matches the tone of the article though, so it feels
thematically appropriate.

------
blisseyGo
> "The RCMP Operations Manual, a copy of which was obtained by Maclean’s,
> authorizes the force to mislead all but the courts in order to conceal the
> identity of confidential informants and agent sources.

> “The identity of a source must be protected at all times except when the
> administration of justice requires otherwise, i.e. a member cannot mislead a
> court in any proceeding in order to protect a source.”

So RCMP could simply not be telling the truth as they are authorized to lie?

------
basicplus2
RCMP - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

~~~
lostlogin
Thank you.

------
mjfl
why would this man withdraw money with the expectation that he was going to
suicide in a few days?

~~~
bawolff
I suppose to give it to someone else. Giving away possesions is a common
warning sign for suicide from what i understand.

------
oh_sigh
So many conspiracy theorists in this thread when by far the most obvious
explanation is the dude just snapped. Maybe he was a CI. Maybe Brinks lets you
withdraw money that way for certain businesses. Either way neither of those
things lead to his rampage.

The story of this is that if he was in fact a CI, that the RCMP let him get
away with crimes and violent behavior so he would keep giving them info.

But for people saying this is a false flag, come on...

------
redis_mlc
In case HN readers aren't aware of it, I would say most of the reported
"tragedies" that you read about involving adults have prior LEO relationships,
or in the case of fires, firemen. If you read a national newspaper for long
enough, they keep popping up.

Usually it's to create cases that then need solving.

This case is odd because the person of interest appears to be a pro of some
kind, and they normally have better things to do, and without press.

------
yters
he withdrew a huge amount of money, and the press cant prove the secret
service didnt pay him

i guess secret service are guilty till proven innocent...

~~~
function_seven
He withdrew a huge amount of money, _in a manner that is only used by CIs and
agents_. From the article:

> _A Mountie familiar with the techniques used by the force in undercover
> operations, but not with the details of the investigation into the shooting,
> says Wortman could not have collected his own money from Brink’s as a
> private citizen._

and

> _“When you come into my branch and you want a ton of cash, then I say, you
> gotta give us a couple of days. We put in our Brink’s order, I order the
> money through Brink’s, then when the money arrives, you come back into the
> branch, I bring you into a back room and I count the money out for you,” the
> banking expert said. “Sending someone to Brink’s to get the money? I’ve
> never heard of that before. The reason is, if I’m the banker, and you’ve
> deposited your savings in my bank branch, I’m responsible for making sure
> the money goes to the right person. If you want this money, I’m going to
> verify your identity and document that. I can’t do that if I’m transferring
> the money to Brink’s.”_

It's solid evidence that this guy is connected to the RCMP in some manner.

~~~
yters
an anecdote from one mountie without any reference to official procedures is
solid evidence?

~~~
14
The article states sources from banking confirmed this theory as well. Not
just some lone RCMP.

~~~
yters
why would the rcmp want a random gunman to kill 20 innocent civilians?
methinks the author is too quick to jump to gov conspiracy

~~~
function_seven
I didn’t read it that way at all. All this article is alleging is that the
gunman was connected with the RCMP in some fashion. Not that the RCMP actually
wanted him to go on a killing spree.

I’m thinking more along the lines of a confidential informant gone off the
rails.

------
ta17711771
If you don't know modern examples of possible false flags/intelligence
operations gone awry yet, it's time to become familiar.

Lots of lines being crossed the last few decades.

~~~
keeganpoppen
what are some examples that are thought to be in this category?

~~~
joe_the_user
Another notable example was ATF piping guns to the cartels.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal)

~~~
jml7c5
It's misleading to call that a false flag, as it was not an act intended to
deceive the public. While the operation used methods of dubious legality and
morality to gather information, the 2000 or so guns that were allowed to walk
constituted only a small fraction of guns already being smuggled across the
border.

~~~
3131s
The US government has an unofficial alliance with the Sinaloa cartel.

It's always been my guess that Fast & Furious was about supplying arms to
them, or at least that makes more sense than "gathering information" as an
objective.

~~~
edgarvaldes
As a mexican, this is interesting to me. Any more info/sources?

~~~
salemh
I don't know what the parent is referring to recently, but years ago Wikileaks
had a Stratfor memo during the violence of the Zetas which gave 'tacit'
approval to Sinoloa. [https://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-
with-c...](https://www.businessinsider.com/stratfor-the-us-works-with-
cartels-2012-9?op=1)

[https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/17/1747720_re-fwd-re-
fw-f...](https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/17/1747720_re-fwd-re-fw-from-
mx1-2-.html)

~~~
3131s
I'm also referring to the testimony of Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, a former
high-ranking member and son of the leader of the Sinaloa cartel.

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/01/14/was-
operat...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/01/14/was-operation-
fast-and-furious-really-part-of-a-secret-deal-between-the-dea-and-mexicos-
sinaloa-drug-cartel/#511adb8b23a1)

