

Ask HN: How do I look for a job without my current employer finding out? - SeekingAnOut

The situation: I work at a small startup in a city that is not SF or NY. Though the company is small it is somewhat high profile in our city and our founder is well connected with devs, managers, and founders at many of the companies with open positions that I would consider applying for.<p>Some context: Our founder on two occasions has told me that he heard from people at other startups that an employee of his (a coworker of mine) had applied for a job there. In both cases the people making the call are well respected people in our community. Perhaps I was&#x2F;am naive to think that that was inappropriate. Neither person got an offer from those companies and it made things very weird at work.<p>Why I&#x27;m thinking of leaving: I like my job a lot but frankly I&#x27;m pretty sure I can get a better offer somewhere else and I&#x27;d like to see if that&#x27;s true. However, if I do apply to a few places and don&#x27;t get offer I&#x27;d prefer to avoid any weirdness at work.<p>How do I go about dealing with this?
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junto
You and your employer have a simple arrangement that you provide him with your
time and expertise and he pays you an agreed amount every month for your
trouble. You aren't marrying him. That contract can be terminated by either
party under a variety of circumstances. Neither of you should expect some kind
of loyalty to stay with the company. Don't believe for a minute that your
employer wouldn't let you go if he had to or wanted to.

This is your career and your life. If it comes back on you then you explain
that you are looking to earn your full potential.

There is an old adage in sales. If the customer wants to buy your product then
the only thing that's stopping him buying it is the price.

You're the product. You need to be happy that your are being paid what you are
worth, otherwise it will eat you up from the inside every day you get out of
bed.

~~~
fooboy
This. My comment history displays all sorts of worry about my place at work. I
recently realized I've just been upset by how I've been underpaid for years in
an extremely hot labor market and specialty.

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JSeymourATL
Don't ever apply for a job. Never submit a resume.

Do get out and network every week. Strategically look to connect with senior
executives in your space who you know how to help. Use Linkedin to find ideal
profiles. If the conversation turns towards making a move. Be sure to say, you
may be open to opportunity. But any discussion must be privileged and
confidential. *Incidentally, find out the 2 start-ups that blabbed about your
colleagues. Quietly black-list them.

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frandroid
You tell the companies you apply with that you don't want them to contact your
current employer, and you will judge them on how good you keep their tongues
tied. And you mention the previous occurrences.

Anyway, the point is, if your employer has employees looking elsewhere, they
should be looking into what they need to do to make these employees' jobs
better. The fact that the employer shares that these people are looking
elsewhere doesn't reflect well.

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henrixd
Why would you have to hide it? You have contract with your employer and it is
normal to sometimes look for better contract elsewhere. Sometimes employer
might use unfair means to keep employees but is that the kind of workplace you
want to work in?

I would be open about it and from it's reasons. Sometimes they might even make
an counteroffer or change things to better. At least this is how it should
work in adult world. But maybe I come from different culture, so what do I
know.

~~~
tdicola
Not in the US--it's pretty rare for a full time employee to have some kind of
contract that retains their employment. In fact in a lot of states employment
is considered 'at will' and you can be let go at any time for any reason (or
no reason!). The big exception is if you're a 'protected class' like certain
races, above a certain age, etc. but that just means the employer has to prove
they didn't fire you because of that protected class.

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HeyLaughingBoy
Let's clarify that, shall we?

"Certain races" are not a protected class. _Race itself_ is a protected class
in that you cannot be let go for reasons of race.

Of course, as you already said, that really doesn't matter. If they want you
out, they'll find a way.

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mallyvai
If what you're saying is true, then it's a pretty gross breach of trust and
privacy. I don't care how small a community is, there should be some minimum
expectation of privacy around a transition, independent of the legality.

Drop me a line - mallyvai at offerletter.io - I guide a lot of other engineers
on job-related stuff (i founded offerletter.io ) - we may be able to help here
(and we're absolutely discreet about this stuff :-)

-V

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HeyLaughingBoy
I _do_ consider it inappropriate. I'm also looking and I'd be a bit irritated
if it got back to my current employer. That said, there's no rule against
looking around and it's in your best interest to always know what you're worth
to the market and what else is out there. And that's the answer you give them
if they find out.

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ScottBurson
That is infuriating, isn't it, that these applications weren't kept in
confidence? IANAL, but I wonder if your co-workers might not have grounds for
lawsuits. It certainly has a chilling effect on your efforts to find something
better.

How attached are you to living in this particular city? Because I don't see
any likely way out except to apply for jobs elsewhere.

~~~
yen223
Whether it's a dick move aside, are there any laws protecting job applicant
info?

~~~
joezydeco
That's going to really be a he-said she-said situation. How can you prove that
the two companies talked? Perhaps if OP had a job offer and then all of a
sudden it was pulled, there could be a reason for a defamation lawsuit.

Remember that saying: never attribute to conspiracy that which you can
attribute to incompetence. It's more likely that someone just blabbed about
your previous coworker and word got back to the boss.

If you choose to interview with some of those other companies, you're going to
have to do it SUPER stealthy. No correspondence or phone calls during work
hours. Don't even sneak off to take personal cell calls. Interview after-hours
or on weekends if possible.

 _Explain the situation_ to the new employer. If they need the help they could
really give two craps about the fortunes of your current boss and will help
you make the jump. If they do talk to your boss then, well, they probably
can't be trusted with other things.

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thret
Apply for jobs in other cities, or alternatively just ask your founder?
There's less weirdness if he knows where you stand. Also he seems to know a
lot of people who are hiring, so if he can recommend you then that might make
it easier to get a better offer.

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vishaldpatel
As long as you're not applying for jobs during work hours, you should always
say, "Yes! I'm always looking for a better job when I'm not at work! =)".

~~~
tdicola
To which the founder will reply, "It's your lucky day! Now you have all the
time in the world to look for a better job. Pack your things and get out,
now."

~~~
sheepmullet
Not if always looking for work was the norm. Got to start somewhere.

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samfisher83
Sounds like collusion. Might be hard to prove. If apple and google can do it I
am not sure why some small company can't.

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ttn
You should either talk to your founder about these or look for a job in
another city (maybe country?)

