
How I stay motivated working on my long-term project - durmonski
https://durmonski.com/self-improvement/the-three-year-rule/
======
nicbou
That was a tedious read. Most of the article is just filler text. There is a
whole page of it before the point: give yourself 3 years. Why 3 years? Because
Rome wasn't built in a day. That's pretty much all there is to it.

The advice feels pretty circular. To stay motivated, do it for 3 years. If you
can commit to something for 3 years, you already have the motivation.

Regardless, I disagree with this advice. Give it a month, tops. If you don't
enjoy the process after a month and the goal is 3 years away, you won't get
there.

From my experience, I stick to doing things because of the rewards along the
way. After a month of playing an instrument, learning a language or trying a
hobby, I will likely produce something that makes me want to keep going. It
won't take 3 years.

~~~
bluedevil2k
Even from a business perspective, what you're working on today, if it's tech
or software related, will be horribly out-dated in 3 years. Imagine how many
"pivots" need to be made on a software product who's expected delivery is Fall
2023.

That's what gave rise to the whole Lean Start-up movement - spend 3 months,
get a working version out there, get some paying customers, start improving
the software with new features. If you can't get any paying customers with an
MVP, it's a sign your idea might not be worth a 3 year investment.

~~~
adventured
> Even from a business perspective, what you're working on today, if it's tech
> or software related, will be horribly out-dated in 3 years.

Here's how outdated in tech usually works across three years:

We gotta switch to NoSQL, it's the new new hot hot thing! It's going to save
us money, it's going to make our service much faster, it's going to be easier
to manage. It's revolutionary, everybody says so. Our competition is switching
too.

Three years later: we're going to switch away from NoSQL, turns out we didn't
actually need to use that. It caused more problems than it solved in our case.

Outdated in three years is mostly only true in a small echo chamber of the
tech industry obsessed with chasing fads 24/7\. It's an almost entirely self-
imposed form of torture by that part of the industry. There are exceptions of
course, cases where things legitimately get outdated in just three years, and
they're rare.

Was the NoSQL fad that so many people chased necessary? Nope. Are there great
use cases for NoSQL systems? Of course. The legitimate use cases aren't
fraudulent, it's the fad that is, the mania, the hype (which always implodes,
then the headlines come rolling in about switching back).

That's a microcosm of the three year fad hopping that you're talking about
(and there are obviously a lot of examples of it, from big data to AI/ML, to
the latest framework craze). A small segment of the tech industry is like a
dog that never stops chasing fad cars.

------
kurome
>When I lack immediate feedback, I begin to doubt myself/my abilities.

He believes being conditioned by social media led him to that point, more
specifically immediate-satisfaction instant-result culture.

That is not entirely true in my experience. Feedback is supposed to determine
strategy, not your self worth as a person. He has been programmed, by the
instant result culture or whatever, into emotionally charged reactions, not an
objective response.

I have been working out and I hit a plateau, I should stop this is fruitless >
I hit a plateau, I need to try a new workout routine. Not “I will workout for
3 years until I make any judgement.”

I have been blogging for months and nobody cares, I should stop > I have been
blogging for months without any results, my current course of action needs
adjustment. Not “I will blog for 3 years regardless.”

Reacting - Old habits/conditioning make you react to a situation

Responding - Taking in the situation and moving forward with calculated
action.

The 3 year rule replaces his current reaction with another one, when he should
be working on responding to situations instead. It takes you further, but will
not take you further than if you were to correct that faulty outlook
altogether.

~~~
hinkley
I think there's some overlap with fame culture here too.

I'm a nobody and I'm sad. If everyone knew me I'd be happy.

A finger closes on the monkey's paw; You're famous now, for getting your drunk
ass taken down in a restaurant waiting area. Now everybody hates you, and they
recognize you while you're grocery shopping.

I think the reason why a big fraction of success stories comes from people who
built something for themselves first is not just that they have a subject
matter expert, or a captive audience (which doesn't hurt!). It's that they
_know_ the work is important, even if nobody else knows.

I have a project I used to work on where I got wedged on a rapidly shifting
API for a dependency. I had grand plans for solving a problem for a niche that
is one of my hobbies. Part of getting back into it has been trying to figure
out how to be more... selfish. What parts of it would help _me_ , as a tool?
Not the bits that would improve my resume (turns out that doesn't motivate me
very well), but me personally. Then maybe my friends. Then if I'm still going,
the groups that were my original target.

------
medium_burrito
I think the key thing is discrete deliverables that don't have too long of a
gap between them. This allows you to feel there is progress, but also put the
project on ice and resume because the next task isn't some huge insurmountable
thing but another small piece.

------
nonbirithm
> Ask any successful person. Ask any experienced person. They’ll all tell you
> the same thing – It takes time to create something valuable. Something worth
> doing.

Over time I've ended up not really understanding this advice, but only because
of something I accomplished in the past.

One day I just felt like writing something. I hadn't written since elementary
school and had never published a piece of writing online before. But one day I
just felt like writing something. The idea just would not leave my mind and I
failed to get any sleep, instead spending all of my conscious time writing.

Within a week I was more or less finished. It was a short story numbering only
a few dozen pages at most. But save for some minor editing it was complete.

And I decided that since I finished something, it was a success. And I also
liked what I wrote, legitimately. I don't think it was that great in the
context of people with experience, but it was _mine_ , and that was enough for
me to declare it a success. To me, I thought it was valuable. To me, I thought
it was worth doing.

So if it's true that you must spend a lot of time to make something valuable,
then in my view one of two things is true:

1\. What I accomplished in only a week was not valuable to me or anyone else
and was not worth doing, and I'm just deluding myself.

2\. The advice was untrue and you can still create things of value without
spending a lot of time - it just depends on what the scale is.

And if there is no way to create something valuable without spending a lot of
time on it, then I don't understand why Ludum Dare and NaNoWriMo still exist,
unless people believe the things they accomplish during those events are
valueless, which doesn't sound right to me.

Since then I have never really felt like writing. I will either sit down and
not think of anything for hours, or at most write whatever comes to my mind in
a stream of consciousness and then proceed to not look at or edit it ever
again. I think this is what people call being trapped by their past successes.
I expect to be able to accomplish again what I actually did accomplish a
single time in the past, which is not realistic. Not everything I do will turn
out as well as that one time. But the fact remains that I called what I
accomplished a success despite not spending much time on it at all, and on top
of that it was the first thing I had seriously written in over a decade, and I
seem to be unable to reconcile that with the practicalities of developing a
skill properly.

~~~
keenmaster
I have a similar sentiment and anecdote. I'm fully aware that the OP is more
about long term projects, but sometimes long term projects can be helped by a
modular approach - including starting with a singular high energy event at the
beginning to keep you motivated or get validation.

Anecdote: A few months ago I was speaking with a friend and I mentioned the
prospect of writing a certain article for publication in a newspaper (at least
a local one), but I quickly dismissed the idea. I thought "what are the
chances?" I actually looked up the chances of getting published in a top
newspaper, and, according to Quora, they were extremely slim.

My friend pushed me to go ahead with it anyway. I spent the next 4 hours
producing and editing the first draft. My friend and a random guy sitting next
to me at Starbucks helped revise it. I submitted the article to one of the top
newspapers in the country/world and got published a couple weeks later.

I literally never wrote a blog or article before that, and two weeks later
tens of thousands of people were reading it and it was shared in elite
circles. I sent the link to random Starbucks dude to show that his 10 minutes
talking to a stranger resulted in more words on a national newspaper. He got a
kick out of it.

Though writing is not my profession, I would now feel more confident pursuing
a long term writing project like authoring a book in my free time. This goes
back to the modularity I mentioned above. This story could easily have been
about a small side project that got traction on GitHub.

There is a paucity of action. Just do it. I'm glad my friend told me that.

------
Tade0
Out of the side projects that I know of which made it past the MVP stage most
had one thing in common: they solved a problem that the person who came up
with the idea had.

Sounds obvious, but I've seen a few projects fail because the developer
couldn't relate to their users.

Side note: quite often this lack of motivation is simply a matter of impostor
syndrome.

The other day I managed to break out of that by looking at a "how to" of
something from a field foreign to me.

It was a step-by-step demonstration of how a certain drawing was created.

My first reaction was: "this is amazing - I wish I could create such awe-
inspiring things".

Then I remembered that I've been programming since I was twelve and am fully
capable of creating things that might be as impressive to people who are not
in my field as that artwork was to me.

~~~
steve_adams_86
This reminds me of something that happened to me the other day. We hired a
developer to work with me, and he said he was excited to have a chance to work
with a ‘brilliant engineer’ like me. I was at a loss for words and thought
about it a lot for a couple days. I almost worried he’d be disappointed to
find out how mediocre I am. I came to the same conclusion though, really - I
feel like an imposter, and after 15 years or so I probably do seem competent
to people with less experience.

I’m not a brilliant engineer but yeah, he will probably learn a bit working
with me. A lot of us probably need to give ourselves more credit.

It’s hard not to think so much about how our work is only possible on the
shoulders of giants. I don’t spend enough time thinking about what I can do,
and too much thinking about what I can’t.

------
roland35
I like the idea of being realistic with a timeline and start with a 3 year
goal. I think the most important part of getting quick feedback for me is
setting up my environment for tiny iterations (for a web dev side project),
but the balance is tricky between getting more efficient and endless "yak
shaving"!!

I would love to do some electronics design but I find it much harder to have
smaller sessions, it takes me a least an hour or two to get into a flow where
I have my mental model of the complete circuit, mechanical layout, etc.

I also want to balance being a good parent with side projects as well!
Currently my kids are too small to participate in engineering, but you can bet
that I am totally going to build a robot with them some day :)

------
dnprock
I started working on a long-term project 1.5 years ago. It's in
cryptocurrency. People in crypto would call it a shitcoin project. Up until
now, it's a solo project. I'm the only person working on it. Not much outside
interest. But I learn some things along the way.

When you think about the expected or probable ROI, you'd likely give up. These
projects or ideas will likely fail. You have less than 1% chance of success.
You're trying to calculate the extreme tail risk. It's not worth the time to
think about it. The process is demoralizing.

One trait that I found useful for these long-term ideas: curiosity. If you're
curious about something, you can do it for a long time. You still do it even
when you know it would likely fail. During the process, you can learn things
that are not exactly applicable for your idea. But they are useful for your
learning.

Another aspect to think about is to find the failure criteria. You can decide
when your long-term idea is invalid. When you see X happens, you know X would
invalidate your idea. X is the correct idea, your idea is incorrect. At that
point, you can stop.

An example: I have a hypothesis that battery electric cars may not be the
future. I work on alternative ideas. A failure criteria for my idea: When
battery electric cars have more than 50% market share. This example
illustrates the unpopularity of working on long-term ideas. People would call
you stupid. You'll likely fail. Curiosity is the only thing that keeps you
going.

------
crazygringo
So the author says "stick to it for 3 years".

But that doesn't answer the question at all. The question becomes, how do you
stay motivated for those 3 years?

The answer, for me and people I know, is that you have to break it down into
small pieces (month-sized, then week-sized, then day-sized) and _find
happiness in the progress_. In the small daily wins.

If you think you'll only be happy once you succeed (3+ years later) you'll
never make it. It's trite but it's true, that you've got to find happiness in
the journey, not just the destination.

Because if you don't, then you'll absolutely give up and fall back to the
things that do give you instant happiness today, whether that's social media
or spending time with your spouse or kids. And if you choose your family over
a long-term project because the project isn't producing happiness... then that
might be the right choice for you! :)

------
Wump
> A lot of times writing, to me, feels like sitting alone and talking to
> myself. I write stuff, I publish them, and nothing really happens. The lack
> of feedback – good or bad – makes me doubt the work I do.

This is one place where having a co-founder/collaborator/co-worker is
valuable: built-in feedback mechanism.

~~~
colmvp
I also found having a mentor is helpful. The mentor can give advice and help
work through next steps with you and hold you accountable to things you say
you'll do.

~~~
gibolt
Key is having them hold you accountable. Schedule a fixed bi-weekly or monthly
time with them, and set deadlines (given to them) for the next meeting. This
helps push you to meet them.

------
nickjj
I think it really just boils down to doing something you like and believing in
your decision to do it.

For example if you're looking at a new tech stack and after some weeks or
months of developing something with it. If it's not everything you thought it
would be, or you're no longer 100% on board, no amount of motivation is going
to keep you moving forward to build your app. It'll feel like absolute dread
every time you think about opening your code editor.

I've been consistently blogging for 5+ years (at least 1 weekly post) and I
still find it super enjoyable. It doesn't feel like I need motivation because
it's doing something I genuinely believe in and want to do.

------
benrbray
I'm not sure I agree with this advice in its current form, since the "adjust"
phase of the three-year rule is arguably the most important. My current self
would be unrecognizable to myself three years ago.

I'm still learning how to be productive long-term. I started gaining a lot of
momentum when I shifted my thinking from short-term impulsiveness:

    
    
      Wow, I just discovered X!  I will read everything there is to know about X today!
    

To long-term sustainability:

    
    
      In three months, I want to be someone who is familiar enough with X to recognize when it might be useful, and pull out that knowledge as needed.

~~~
conductr
That’s a hurdle everyone crosses and usually doesn’t go backwards. It sounds
like it just happens to be less than 3 years in your rear view.

I don’t know anything about you. But I know being young and having disposable
time to dive into everything is a common trap. Using myself as an example, I
got married, had a kid, work a lot, and still try to have a bit of a social
life. This means I scrutinize heavily how my time is utilized on side
projects. I pretty much know when I can build something. Or know i could fill
necessary gaps. So I skip that and go straight to “then what?” Is it for
hobby? Can I sell this? Do I want to find someone who can? Am I wanting to
spend years focused on this? The fact is, I have a lot of ideas that are just-
for-fun projects that I would have dived right into in my younger days. Now I
rarely do that. I occasionally have an idea that I’ll push forward. I read a
lot and like to learn without doing if you will. I also assemble teams to do
the labor intensive parts and act as a project manager when I want to build
something these days. I find it just as enjoyable and usually learn a lot
along the way.

------
wisemanwillhear
> But there is something else entirely that’s keeping you inside Facebook and
> Twitter like a crackhead inside a drugstore – immediate feedback. Sadly,
> this same thing, is also the reason you abandon your long-term projects.

Perhaps it's just my disposition, but I find that new ideas are more
interesting than old ideas, even when I get quick "feedback". The longer a
project takes the older and less exciting my original ideas get and the more I
come up with new, exciting ideas.

Building self discipline / temperance + accountability have helped me a lot.

------
jvln
My two cents. I prefer analogy with sport. Say you choose running and pick 10k
distance. What might be the goal? 50min, 40min, 30min? Say you pick 50min, if
you are out of shape and did not do sport in your life - it will take you 6-9
months. You will have to train 3 times a week, probably you won't hire a
couch, your body won't be ready, hence you will make many mistakes and will
have quite high chances to injure your self and quit. What I want to emphasize
- to succeed you have to start loving the process and blend the process into
your lifestyle.

I see very clearly how the goal oriented approach fails for loosing weight
while the only effective thing to do is eat less.

------
tillcarlos
Not sure I can agree to this. Not everything that you commit to for 3 years
will turn out a success.

The quoted Matt D'avela video featured 2 Austrailian podcasters who committed
to 5 years. They just released their 800th episode, and the average view count
is in the hundreds:
[https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDailyTalkShow](https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDailyTalkShow)

I'd rather follow Noah Kagan. I forgot the source but I think he said you
should place much more effort into deciding _what_ to work on.

In our hustle culture this is underrated. It's mostly deciding on what, and
related to that: timing.

------
m3nu
Set yourself intermediate goals, rather than aiming for a big payoff. On the
way to $10k MRR: prototype, first user, first paying users, first 100 users,
etc. Every milestone is enjoyable!

I also disagree with "doing what's fun". Hard problems aren't fun in the
beginning, but once you achieve mastery, you will enjoy the task. Seen this
for programming or in others for pottery. Once you get good at something you
enjoy it more and have access to new options and a new perspective.

The last part is summarized from "So Good They Can't Ignore You" by Cal
Newport. Still works.

------
samkater
Great advice, thank you for sharing!

I'll comment too that it also applies to things that can't be measured with
number of users/readers/dollars in bank/etc. I'm not a naturally outgoing
person and making new friends can feel like _work_. But if a relationship is
something that you've decided to value, then (to paraphrase the article) the
only way to make it happen is to commit, prioritize, and respond to feedback.
That applies to friends, spouse, kids, etc.

------
luord
An alternative interpretation of the point could be that one can stay
motivated by framing one's projects in a way that allows one to get feedback
often, but I understand this is easier to say than to do. Nonetheless, it's
something that I'll definitely look into.

------
nullsense
A lot of filler in the article, but the basic premise is something I've often
done when wanting to accomplish something significant. View it on a 3 year
time horizon from the outset.

Its not an appropriate technique for everything you tackle, but for certain
things it's great.

------
bobbydreamer
I disagree with you on certain things.

I read you blog on "Lack of Feedback: The Main Reason You Quit".

Only certain things need feedback, not all things. If you are building an app
which you want to sell in that case it need not have all features, only
essentials first, see if it works and extend it.

Blogs, articles, posts or even sometimes app, if you ask for feedback, when
you get it, you might start to work on the feedback rather than completing the
things you planned, some feedbacks can be negative, it can get under your skin
and can be depressing or uninspiring. So sometimes to do a lot, don't put that
comment box on every post, just have a common feedback or put your email
somewhere in "aboutme".

Lack of feedback is sometimes good.

Commitment, Say no and adjust doesn't match up.

I am doing a side project for 3 years, it's a bit of analysis work and a web
project. No word to anyone on that subject. To get more time to work on my
project, I moved closer to my office to save time on travelling but rents bit
high, not changing my work even if other offers are good, why ? Fine with work
life balance at current work, which I might not get in another company (
previous experience ). I am a moviebuff, stopped watching so many movies and
TV series, now I just read spoilers and learn oh that's the story. I know
movies will be available online now always, I can watch it anytime I want
later.

I sort of believe, the concepts, the ideas which you get in the head, if you
have time you should work on them or should put efforts actually, sometimes,
till you action that idea another one might not come or that idea could be
trigger for something else(like a seed).

Ads are there to get more people to visit, if you are product based.

www.bobbydreamer.com

Is my site, consistently i get 41 users per month(guessing those are all
bots).

I just pretend, my site is like a ninja, no one knows it exists but it does.

Persistence is the key.

There are lot of people who do 100 days of coding challenge like 100 posts,
Today I Learned, I cannot definitely keep up with them. That's fine. I just
know, I have to do atleast one thing in my side project per day. On a very
tiresome workday, I will just update comments.

Keep reading your to-do list and check things off. Write things in paper
rather than a app. Later one day, your scribbles will look funny.

Keep pushing yourself.

------
shuringai
so... the secret to keep up with year-long projects is.... to keep them up for
three years. Thanks cap'n!

