
Mondelez cuts ties with 12 palm oil suppliers, citing deforestation - vinnyglennon
https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/mondelez-cuts-ties-12-palm-oil-suppliers-deforestation/542100/
======
shortoncash
This is really great. I switched off products that use palm oil a while back,
but I always feel so isolated when making changes like this. When a giant
company does it, that has real impact. Thanks to the people out there that are
making this sort of thing happen -- here's to hoping real good comes out of
this.

~~~
ip26
When you buy, for example, soap, what ingredients do you look for instead?

I avoid palm oil in foods for the simple reason I don't consider anything made
with palm oil to be a "whole" food. But I've never known what to do about
other products like soap.

P.S. To bystanders, you may think your soaps don't contain palm oil. Check for
anything like "lauryl sulfate". That's (probably) palm oil.

~~~
skosch
Soap is really tricky. The realistic alternatives at a commercial scale are
coconut oil (but coconuts take twice the land to grow, compared to palm
kernels) or animal fat (which you may not want in your soap). Sustainably
sourced palm oil is probably the best option for soap making.

~~~
petre
Also olive oil.

------
iandanforth
For reference Mondelez makes Oreos, Nilla Wafers, ChipsAhoy cookies, Ritz
crackers and many others ([https://www.mondelezinternational.com/brand-
family](https://www.mondelezinternational.com/brand-family))

~~~
alkonaut
It’s basically the cookies/chocolate-division of Kraft foods, correct?

~~~
saagarjha
Yes, Mondelez bought them back in 2012.

~~~
sobani
Correction: Mondelez is a spin off from Kraft.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondelez_International](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondelez_International)

------
SmellyGeekBoy
So are they just cutting ties with suppliers that are actively sawing down
rainforests? How about suppliers that have already destroyed huge swathes of
it but aren't currently expanding their plantations, surely they don't deserve
Mondelez's business if this isn't just a PR stunt?

~~~
matt_morgan
If you want it to keep going, support Greenpeace.

~~~
raverbashing
Oh the "nuclear power is bad let's keep using non-renewable fuels" greenpeace?
No, thanks

~~~
dewey
I’d say the lesser evil of these two is the one that can be switched off
faster and doesn’t any extremely long lasting side effects even if it’s less
green “right now”. There are various alternatives to nuclear power that are
getting better quickly and will get only more popular as fossil fuels get less
attractive.

~~~
saalweachter
So you're saying atmospheric CO2 is not an extremely long-lasting side effect?

------
RugnirViking
Really impressive stuff coming out of the palm oil activism front recently. A
series of victories in only a few days - a rare thing indeed in the
environmental world

~~~
saiya-jin
Great to see it indeed - but I don't get why now and not earlier.
Deforestation of biggest and oldest rain forests due to this is known at least
for last 10 years, probably more (that's when I heard about it the first time,
with all the controversy that surrounds EU subsidizing this due to bio fuels).

I've been to Borneo 2 years ago, the views all over Malaysian parts of it (and
actual Malaysia mainland too, you see it from plane when landing in Kuala
Lumpur very clearly) were extremely depressing to me - rows and rows of palm
trees in perfect grid where you expect true chaotic wilderness, and basically
no other plants around it, just bare soil. That put a pretty sour taste to
otherwise beautiful vacation, not sure if I want to visit that country again

~~~
vertline3
"Great to see it indeed - but I don't get why now and not earlier. "

There was a story posted earlier this week about orangutan populations on
decline due to Cadbury using Palm Oil.

This story made me rather angry, as they are just trying to live and we need
to make sure they can.

------
vinnyglennon
Related:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdpspllWI2o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdpspllWI2o)
an ad Iceland(company) created to counter palm oil usage.

~~~
KineticLensman
Very sadly this ad has just been banned in the UK. The UK regulator's
statement [0] said that the criteria for banning it was that it was "An
advertisement which is inserted by or on behalf of a body whose objects are
wholly or mainly of a political nature." Greenpeace are the body in question
who created the video and have apparently been screening it on their website.
Iceland (the retail organisation not the country) would have been showing it
on their behalf as their Christmas ad, where I think it could have been very
effective in nudging public opinion.

[0] [https://www.clearcast.co.uk/press/iceland-
advert/](https://www.clearcast.co.uk/press/iceland-advert/)

~~~
growse
I'm not sure I'd call it 'very sad'. We have very strict rules about political
advertising in the UK, and I'm pleased that they get upheld.

In any case, the ad seems to be having no trouble reaching people.

~~~
tomp
It’s not political, it’s an appeal to morality. Just like ads to support e.g.
children’s hospitals, which I see all the time on UK TV. Banning this ad is
highly hypocritical.

~~~
7952
Morality is a central part of politics though. We like to think that the
environment can be scientific and apolitical. But that is not the case. Caring
about the rainforest or whatever is a political choice. We don't _have_ to do
anything. And environmental politics is always about projecting that morality
onto other people who may not agree with you. That is why it is necessary to
observe the niceties of democratic society. And really the politicisation of
these kind of issues ia better than apathy.

------
guelo
Western boycotts don't affect the palm oil market much because most of the
world's palm oil is consumed by India where it is prized for its cheapness,
and where sustainability concerns are dismissed as a western luxury.

~~~
sachdevap
Could you cite a source for that? India's use of palm oil is at about 15% from
what I can find.[0] It's a big number, but not as big as "most" suggests.

Moreover, the same source lists that about 95% is used as edible oil. In a
country with high poverty, to claim "sustainability concerns are dismissed as
a western luxury" is just a statement of fact. If you don't know where your
next meal is coming from, it is hard to care for orangutans dying in another
country. This is not an excuse for apathy, it is just human nature.

[0] [https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-
business/2015/aug/10...](https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-
business/2015/aug/10/india-palm-oil-sustainability-deforestation-unilever-
greenpeace)

~~~
GordonS
I'd be interested in seeing a source for this too. I happen to have a lot of
Indian friends, and I'm a big foodie, so we talk about food a lot. Ghee seems
to be the main cooking fat that's used (or coconut oil in the south), although
just like we in the West were told to switch away from butter "because health
reasons", Indians are told ghee is bad. Rapeseed oil ("canola" for the merkin)
seems to be the main one, and Mustard oil gets used quite often too.

~~~
reaperducer
_( "canola" for the merkin)_

"Canola" is Canadian in origin. In fact, the "Can" in "canola" _means_ Canada.

~~~
GordonS
Huh, I didn't know that, thanks for the tidbit!

------
kpwagner
I make and sell handmade soap with palm oil, among other oils. Unfortunately,
palm is a special oil, and palmitic acid is an important part of the oil comp
to produce a good bar. The only substitute is lard. While I don't mind using
soap made from lard, it has a stigma in the marketplace (i.e. non-vegan,
gross).

~~~
roadbeats
You can make handmade soaps with olive oil, too. So you don't have to cut any
trees. Olive trees are good for environment, too.

~~~
plop_
You can make soap with lot of different oils. But different oils make
different soaps. for instance a soap made exclusively with sunflower oil will
be very soft and not bubbly, a soap made from coconut oil will be the exact
contrary.

~~~
kpwagner
Yes, exactly. Handmade soaps are rarely made from a single oil. I use a blend
of palm, coconut, avocado, and castor. What oils you use and what percentage
each oil represents in the composition, determines the base properties of the
soap. I experimented with many compositions to get to my current recipe that I
really like.

~~~
ricardobeat
Hope you’re not offended, but it sounds like you simply don’t care enough
about this to make a change. There is a definitely a way to source from
sustainable producers and/or change the recipe, but it will come at a cost.
This is true in many businesses.

~~~
tomp
I think the unsustainable part is increasing consumerism. From this thread I
gathered that palm oil is more edficient than e.g. coconut oil. So if people
drop palm oil and switch to coconut oil, the sustainability problem will get
worse.

~~~
kpwagner
For soapmaking the efficiency difference between palm oil and coconut oil is
practically the same. If you are talking about oil production efficiency, I
don't know.

------
matthewaveryusa
palm oil is the most efficient oil to extract by practically a factor of 2
[1]. So in the long term, if global supply increases or stays stable, if we
replace palm oil crops with another crop, eventually we'll make the problem
worse and face more deforestation.

Can someone explain why this wouldn't be the case?

[1] according to this
[http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html](http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html)

~~~
zizee
I believe that with palm oil the issue is that the entire tree is cut down as
the oil is inside the core of the trunk. If people were soley using farmed
trees, it wouldn't be so bad, but instead people are clearing animal habitats.

~~~
phpnode
The oil is in the fruit of the tree not the trunk, they don't cut down the
palms to extract the oil, they cut down the rainforest to make room for the
palms.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_oil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_oil)

~~~
zizee
Right, thanks for the clarification.

------
mc32
This the kind of political action I can live with. I’d like to see it in other
markets, furniture, etc., anywhere natural resource extraction doesn’t include
the mitigation of impact and offsetting the effects. This is Much much better
than activists going vigilate and taking the violent aproach.

------
overcast
It's a shame it takes this much damage, and external pressure to occur first,
before changes are made to something that should have been in place from the
beginning. Just like anything I suppose. Disaster first, then fix. When will
humans ever be proactive?

~~~
always_good
Maybe when they are immortal.

------
growlist
I suppose that attempting to limit further damage is a good start - so how's
about they now actually buy some cleared land and reforest it?

Until then no more Cadbury's for me, though TBH since they sold out to this US
megacorp the quality has gone to shit.

------
jnurmine
I had never seen a palm oil operation.

However, I read through and started following the blog of Taneli Roininen
([http://www.gonebikefishing.com/](http://www.gonebikefishing.com/)) who is
bicycling around the world before his major heart operation.

There are plenty of pictures and somehow I could relate to what he wrote,
seeing vividly his pedalling, hearing the sounds and feeling the wind in my
minds eye.

When his trails went by palm oil plantations, one could really feel the scale
and impact, as well as his frustration. It made the whole palm oil industry
more concrete in some strange way... they are big and destructive.

------
arthurofbabylon
Cynics abound on hacker news.

Meanwhile, looking at this article with a systems perspective, this is
incredibly good news. Large operational entities realizing that they are most
performant when accountable to the public is a very, very good sign.

~~~
cyberpunk0
I mean call me cynical but this wouldn't have happened if they didn't get bad
press about it recently

~~~
arthurofbabylon
I find it so odd that people complain about a system enforcing efficiency and
sustainability.

For example, I would never say in a whiny voice, “that plant only grows
because it gets watered!” or “that student only works hard for good grades!”
or “that product is only good because the brand wants to make more money!”

My point is: the why is less important to observe than the how. In this case,
the WHY is that this company is just looking out for its own interests (it’s
obvious, that’s what they do). HOW is it looking out for it’s own interests?
By recognizing that it needs to be accountable to the critical, ethical
public.

That is super cool and very interesting.

------
yawz
We should all add our voice to the growing consumer pressure around the world.
Yesterday I contacted thrivemarket.com to complain about their carrying
products using palm oil.

------
simplify
Does making palm oil require destroying the tree? I'm honestly ignorant about
this subject.

~~~
ar-nelson
The issue isn't damage to existing oil palms, but tearing down rainforest
(including orangutan habitat) to make room for large plantations of oil palms.

~~~
iicc
[https://www.greenpeace.org/international/publication/18455/t...](https://www.greenpeace.org/international/publication/18455/the-
final-countdown-forests-indonesia-palm-oil/)

> Half of the Bornean orangutan population has been wiped out in just 16
> years, with habitat destruction by the palm oil industry a leading driver.
> More than three-quarters of Tesso Nilo national park, home to tigers,
> orangutans and elephants, has been converted into illegal palm oil
> plantations. Globally, 193 Critically Endangered, Threatened and Vulnerable
> species are threatened by palm oil production.

> The plantation sector – palm oil and pulp – is the single largest driver of
> deforestation in Indonesia. Around 24 million hectares of rainforest was
> destroyed in Indonesia between 1990 and 2015, according to official figures
> released by the Indonesian government [1].

~~~
Paperweight
3/4 of a _national park_ illegally logged and planted? What's it going to take
for these places to get it together? Seriously. _What_?

------
doombolt
I like how Europe (and USA to some extent) destroyed their forests and
biodiversity long ago, and now are pushing other, poorer societies to preserve
biodiversity for the whole world while staying poor.

If you're so concerned about forests why don't you grow some yourself instead
of bullying other countres?

Expecting a lot of dislikes from Bay Area which is a huge plot of ecosystems
destroyed for profit.

~~~
ip26
The deforested parts of the world absolutely should work to reforest. But, the
rainforest is some of the most important ecosystem on the planet, containing
more biodiversity than anywhere else (except maybe coral reefs) and providing
globally valuable ecosystem services like carbon sequestration.

Therefore it is extremely high on the priority list. It's also usually more
cost effective to avoid destroying something than to restore something.

------
pesenti
Serious question: should I stop eating Nutella?

~~~
adimitrov
Serious answer: yes.

It's terrible for you and contains palm oil. There are better alternatives.

------
jcampbell1
The real issue is biodiesel. This is nice, but we should get the oil from
wells and not not rainforests. Chopping down rainforests is not the right way
to increase Indonesian income or address climate change.

~~~
logfromblammo
Or use algae biodiesel and duckweed ethanol.

Then sell the presscakes as Soylent Green. Or further process them to make
non-soy tofu.

------
VBprogrammer
Is there a potential for this to go wrong? I know deforistation is the
problem, but isn't it just as likely that these producers will start producing
oils from other sources. Potentially annuals like corn.

------
neves
This is great news. Now that environment policy will become a secondary issue
for Brazilian Gov, just economic pressure will preserve our forests.

------
syn0byte
In unrelated news; Mondelez launches a new Indonesian agriculture export
subsidiary...

------
newnewpdro
12 from how many?

------
enibundo
Ditched companies and products who don't respect the environment a while
back... Just preparing for the future where the others won't have the choice
anyways :)

------
llcoolv
Well, I guess since they have the entire Brussels apparatus imposing low-to-
none tariffs on raw materials and prohibitively high ones on products
competing with theirs[1], they could easily afford to be generous on minor
things.

Just read the quote below and imagine how would a food-processing company from
a third-world country ever be able to compete? (no way).

1\. [https://brexitcentral.com/eu-thousands-senseless-tariffs-
pun...](https://brexitcentral.com/eu-thousands-senseless-tariffs-punish-poor/)

"The tariff on orange imports is far from being the least justifiable of the
EU’s many thousands of tariffs. Consider coffee. There are a number of
different tariff schedules on coffee imports and the general idea underlying
them is that raw materials get zero or very low tariffs, but the processed
coffee imports that compete with EU coffee processors currently attract
tariffs of up to 11.5 percent."

~~~
pbowyer
Brexit Central's assertion about coffee is completely untrue. Most coffee
producers pay zero tariffs, and it's a matter of logistical difficulties at a
local level that stops coffee producing nations exporting roast coffee. Not
the EU.

Here's a long thread, with references so you can fact check it, on this exact
topic.

[https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/959584192517562369](https://twitter.com/Jim_Cornelius/status/959584192517562369)

