
I asked my students to turn in their cell phones and write about it - r0n0j0y
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614934/teenagers-without-cell-phones/
======
jon889
I don't understand why he decided to do his experiment after the students told
him it was because they didn't understand the words in the book.

But anyway, I think some of this is true that things like social media have
gone to far in attracting our attention. But also a lot of blame is with the
structure of education. Listening to one person for at least an hour with
sometimes a hundred other people in the room is not a good way of learning, at
least not for everyone.

Also learning to remember to complete a closed book exam is not a useful skill
anymore. One of the good things about phones is that almost any information
can be found almost instantly almost anywhere. No need to remember formulas or
dates. Instead how to find information, verify it, and use it is far more
important.

~~~
chinesempire
> One of the good things about phones is that almost any information can be
> found almost instantly almost anywhere.

If you need to constantly look up informations, it means you have no long term
knowledge of anything.

Hence you can't verify that piece of information.

> Also learning to remember to complete a closed book exam is not a useful
> skill anymore

The long term knowledge, AKA "your expertise" kindly disagree.

You can't look up informations when you are at a meeting with the client. You
should already know what you're talking about and know the answer to the most
probable questions.

Prior knowledge gives you confidence, without building a "memory only"
information storage you can't be sure of anything.

What do you do if you disagree? Engage in a google battle? Or, even worse, use
Wikipedia as a baseline for the truth?

~~~
learnstats2
> You can't look up informations when you are at a meeting with the client.

This sounds like an uncomfortable kind of meeting. I often find myself saying
"we can easily look that up".

Knowing where and how to effectively look things up is a critical aspect of
knowledge.

~~~
ameister14
If I were in a meeting with you about what you were doing or could do for me
or my company and you consistently replied with 'we can easily look that up' I
would cease to work with you - I can hire other people that clearly don't know
my business or what they are doing for cheaper.

~~~
brycesbeard
OTOH, if “we can easily look that up” is never said, it’s likely you’re not
asking probing questions. Or that the other side is probably more confident
than they should be.

------
wllknj
The author is best known for complaining about modern education and having a
low opinion of his students. The fact that he would respond to students not
understanding the book he assigned by telling them their phones are the
problem is unsurprising.

Here is a pretty good summary of his MO which apparently hasn't changed much
since a few years ago. [https://hookandeye.ca/2016/03/23/the-unbearable-
privilege-of...](https://hookandeye.ca/2016/03/23/the-unbearable-privilege-of-
cynicism/)

~~~
thisone
ahh, I did think that first student "quote" seemed made up by someone who
doesn't listen to students.

------
MperorM
While I take a lot of issues with the article itself, I concur the core
message completely due to having done the experiment myself.

Two months ago I gave up my phone for a week, for a class on ethics along with
a single other student.

Not being able to listen to podcasts, audiobooks, and music everywhere I go, I
fell into so many more conversations than I normally would in a week.

what I realized was that, while I didn't feel addicted to my phone I
definitely was missing out on a lot of unique interactions by wearing
headphones everywhere I went.

~~~
skizm
> I definitely was missing out on a lot of unique interactions by wearing
> headphones everywhere I went.

As someone who works in a big city, this is why I wear my headphones
everywhere. I am usually not even listening to anything, I just don't want
random people to engage me.

~~~
collyw
That seems quite irrational.

I don't wear headphones in public very often, and its rarely that someone
wants to interact with me. Usually its just to ask where some street is, and
it actually feels quite good if you are able to help someone.

~~~
reidjs
I appreciate where you're coming from and wish that were usually the case, but
where I live 99/100 public interactions are to guilt you out of your money one
way or another. Everyone's got to make money somehow so I respect their right
to ask, but if I'm not in the mood to give away cash why waste their time by
acknowledging them?

I've never had to beg for money, but imagine you _really_ need a few bucks
ASAP. You get someone's attention and they start talking about their problems,
offer you some half eaten food, etc but ultimately refuse to give you some
money. I would rather these good-hearted but cheap folks ignore me so I can
talk to people who are in the giving spirit.

------
wnzl
My experience with education is that you are _often_ forced to write in order
"to please" the teacher, rather than express yourself (if you want the proper
degree). So personally I do not really believe in any of those numbers.

Edit: At least not on academic level, there I think it looks bit differently.

~~~
hanniabu
My biggest peeve is the length requirements with writing. There's no need for
fluff unless you're going into literature. People need to learn how to
succinctly get their point across.

I remember we'd have reports where we need to write 10 pages and I would
finish everything in 4 pages and have no idea what to do after that and then
it just becomes a game of bullshitting to draw it out.

Same thing with essays where it needs to be a page long and I'm able to answer
on a paragraph.

~~~
neltnerb
I have actually repeatedly heard the same complaint from professors. They
don't want to read a bunch of 20 page papers when the standard in the field
for (technical) publications is like 4. So they put _maximum_ page limits on,
which makes vastly more sense all around.

Maybe in philosophy it's necessary because the standard media is books or long
essays so making sure you can play the "game of bullshitting" is a useful
vocational skill in that field, to make your text long enough for people to
buy your book.

No offense intended to philosophers, I love philosophy. But practical
considerations like earning a living from a philosophy degree are perhaps
different. It's kind of hard to sum up a new philosophical treatise in four
pages since you'd probably take that long just to define your version of what
"good" means.

~~~
vorpalhex
My philosophy papers always had the most strict page limits. Try arguing
against Nozick in 3 double spaced pages...

------
spodek
Having foregone nearly all packaged food and all flying for about five years,
I can report similar results -- discovering that what was supposed to be more
convenient, bringing the world closer, connecting me to family, and exposing
me to more culture did the opposite.

Next to nobody I've shared my experiences with considers going without
packaged food and flying possible, let alone my results, but experience speaks
louder than their speculation.

~~~
episteme
Have you done a writeup of how you made the switching to entirely non packaged
food? I would imagine it would involve a lot more grocery trips?

~~~
spodek
I've written several blog posts on it and my two TEDx talks cover more.

TEDx talks: [http://joshuaspodek.com/my-second-tedx-talk-what-everyone-
ge...](http://joshuaspodek.com/my-second-tedx-talk-what-everyone-gets-wrong-
about-the-environment-and-how-to-get-it-right-went-live)

Blog post listing of other posts: [http://joshuaspodek.com/avoiding-food-
packaging-2](http://joshuaspodek.com/avoiding-food-packaging-2)

Note: not _entirely_ non-packaged. I fill about a load of garbage per year.
Yesterday I threw out my load for 2019: [http://joshuaspodek.com/emptying-my-
household-garbage-for-th...](http://joshuaspodek.com/emptying-my-household-
garbage-for-the-first-time-in-2019)

Here are reviews of my famous no-packaging vegetable stews:
[http://joshuaspodek.com/food-world-reviews](http://joshuaspodek.com/food-
world-reviews)

------
DocG
Seems about right. I did a self test on myself, leaving phone at home for the
work whole week. No other restrictions, this worked great. It had the benefit
of still using phone whenever I needed it, not missing interaction but having
much more concentration while doing work related tasks and forced reasonable
amount of self reflection time while in transit.

For permanent basis I would request work dumb-phone from employer, that will
stay on my office desk.

Other than that, a lot of anxety related to phone got removed once the phone
is on permanent silent, all unknown numbers are blocked silently,
notifications are limited. Phone is for people who I want to interact when I
can.

FOMO

------
jbverschoor
Story has holes in it. They agreed to part for 9 days, yet after only two
weeks they began to think phones are limiting their relationships.

~~~
foobar1962
The teacher has done this for a couple of years, and I think the timelines
have become mixed.

------
lagadu
If most of the students did bad in the exam, the problem lies with the one
factor in common: the professor.

~~~
sharedfrog
In this case, maybe (I haven't read the article). But generally, I'd be wary
of saying this. It conflates a complex subject to a single, easy answer which,
incidentally, abolishes students of any responsibility for their own learning.

~~~
ggggtez
And it abolishes the professor of responsibility as well.

Not to say the author is entirely full of it, but broad generalizations
blaming the _existence of cellphones_ for the problems of our entire culture
is way too reductionist.

------
jccalhoun
Did I miss the part where he says what their grades were after this
experiment? Without any specific improvements it is just someone complaining
about kids these days.

~~~
pdpi
It’s also the “kids these days” agreeing with the professor, which is
definitely different from other get off my lawn type posts

~~~
ggggtez
I'm not quite sold on that either. The professor obviously cherry picks the
quotes that would show him in the best light.

And students know what answer the professor _wants_ to hear, and he is giving
them bonus points on their grade for participating in the experiment. Not to
mention that a student who participates in the bonus-point offer is likely a
student who is doing badly in the class and would appreciate the assistance
from the points and from removing the distractions, as they likely are the
same students that think the professor knows what he's talking about,
otherwise why would they volunteer for the experiment at all?

In that situation, it would not be difficult to cherry pick some supporting
opinions. Remember, this is not exactly a controlled experiment.

~~~
WomanCanCode
Professors generally have academic freedom to try such stunts to get into
media. But still seems like a pointless experiment in a philosophy class.
Anyone know why colleges are not more focused on getting kids ready for
working environment?

------
will4274
It's a simple pattern.

1\. Offer extra credit for some wacky experiments with students

2\. Make it clear to the experimental subjects what results you want to hear
in advance

3\. Complete the experiment without any rigour (blinding) and hear the results
you wanted to hear

It's not at all surprising to me that a group of students sucking up to a
professor for extra credit would say just what they thought the professor
wanted to hear, whether they believed it or not.

------
Abishek_Muthian
Forget about giving up smartphones, would it be even possible to teach
ourselves some notification etiquette[1] e.g. while sending a chat text
setting the priority level for it i.e. if cat gif (delayed) and if something
important (immediate) etc.

I think the app behemoths which gained from the notification pollution would
never implement anything which forces etiquette to the user and that the well-
being measures launched in Android and iOS are useless when it comes to
limiting smartphone usage.

[1][https://needgap.com/problems/59-notification-pollution-
mobil...](https://needgap.com/problems/59-notification-pollution-mobile-
productivity)

------
samdung
Remember the old days when a bunch of friends would agree to meet at any place
and all of us would find each other after arriving at that place. Wonder if
that would be possible today?

~~~
ekianjo
I think you conveniently forget the days where people were 30 mins late and
you had to wait for them in the cold not knowing where they were and when they
would arrive.

~~~
robaato
Cultural differences apply. I remember realising when socialising with Italian
students, that arranging a time to meet was a precursor to 60-90 minutes of
chat about what we might do, who was going to turn up etc, etc.

I warned a friend who I took on a subsequent visit, that meeting at 7.30pm
probably meant eating at 10pm. And in fact I was 15 mins optimistic! This
included a visit to someone's house, being invited in for a quick aperitivo,
driving 40 mins to restaurant etc...

------
krishsai
Yes, cell phones or gadgets are making people isolated instead of making them
more social. Keeping gadgets away from us will make us more creative and
perform batter. Would like to experiment with me as well.

------
rkagerer
As I read this excellent article my dog sitting beside me looked up at me
several times to say "hey human, quit staring at that screen!"

------
7532yahoogmail
Wow. Really, really bold leadership here. He actually asked students to go
without their phones ... the student's family were happy the teacher didn't
ask for them too. Such power!

Meanwhile, a university professor,

\- isn't mom/dad by pseudo punishing students removing phones

\- isn't moonlighting as pseudo pysch researcher who guessed phones were the
problem

\- isn't a cool guru by wowing kids into wisdom with this unexpected ploy

If your students did bad on their exam

\- make improvements as a teacher if you feel some responsibility lay with you
(there's no need to gas on about this to students)

\- leave the grades unchanged

\- stop confusing the issue with stupid exercises then self marketing it into
media

~~~
klohto
I recommend rereading the article once more. He asked student to volunteer
their phones to him, he didn’t force remove them. He left the grades unchanged
just offered extra credit to the students who were determined enough to do the
experiment.

~~~
will4274
s/determined/desperate/

