
Why Japan’s ‘shūkatsu’ job-seeking system is changing - willvarfar
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190731-why-japans-shkatsu-is-disappearing-for-japanese-youth
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9nGQluzmnq3M
This article does a poor job of explaining just how soul-crushing the shukatsu
system is. For example, you're traditionally expected to _hand-write_ your
resumes [1] and application letters, in ink, from scratch, for every single
company you apply to. Make a single mistake while writing it? Throw it in the
bin and start again. Now repeat for every single company you want to apply to.
The system is also a colossal time suck: the only way to apply to most
companies is to attend their application sessions (setsumeikai) _in person_ ,
and each Japanese graduate goes to, on average, 76 (!) of these. And only then
does the interview process actually start!

[1] [https://soranews24.com/2014/10/02/to-handwrite-or-not-to-
han...](https://soranews24.com/2014/10/02/to-handwrite-or-not-to-handwrite-
recruiter-lays-into-laziness-of-young-japanese-job-hunters/)

~~~
Simon_says
That does seem like a lot of work, but surely there's a benefit in terms of
signaling? If you apply to a job, it shows more than a bit of interest.

~~~
whatshisface
If everyone is expected to do it, it doesn't stand out.

~~~
mantas
It's not about standing out. It's about signalling that you're genuinely
interested in a job.

~~~
cyberbanjo
What makes it a signal if it's a rather uniform thing?

~~~
mantas
Signal doesn't have to be unique or non-uniform.

If a signal helps to remove all noise and there's only the signal left, does
it become the new noise?

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arfhn
I actually went through this system several years ago.

Basically, the system favors famous universities' graduates. Since "big"
companies (Toyota, Panasonic, NTT, etc) are in competition with each other
during the tight recruiting schedule, they tend to focus recruiting effort on
few "good" universities. However, even then, obtaining the best talents are
not guaranteed.

Therefore, their solutions are an agreement with those universities, where a
number of hiring slots are reserved for graduates from those universities. The
universities decide who get the recommendation to which companies.

The catch is, once you are selected for this recommendation, you are STRONGLY
compelled to accept offer from that specific company, and withdraw application
from all other companies. The students submits their preference to the career
councelor and it was considered, but there are cases where people ended up at
strange companies. I know someone who was an excellent researcher on image
processing and wanted to do DSLR camera development in Canon, ended up as
automotive engineer at Toyota because he was afraid of missing out once in a
lifetime opportunity, due to the lifetime employment system. (To be fair, due
their recent focus on autonomous driving, it worked just fine for him)

I actually managed to secure one of those slots and obtain my first job this
way. I have since moved to another company since then as I didn't believe in
lifetime employment, but in my case, I actually liked the job. So, it was all
good for me.

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Causality1
The paradigm of the Japanese "salaryman" is one of the most miserable
existences I can imagine that doesn't involve physical abuse. Until now I
thought that was just me, and that cultural differences meant it was a much
more fulfilling career for Japanese people. Interesting to see that might not
actually be the case.

~~~
james_s_tayler
My sister-in-law who is just a regular, every day mid-twenty-something
Japanese woman that works roughly in graphic design mostly gets home past
11pm. She's not the typical image of a "salaryman" but it all still applies. I
feel sorry as hell for her.

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mikekchar
Ha ha! In Japan, nothing ever changes: until it does. And then it changes
immediately with no transition period. All of a sudden everybody agrees to do
things a different way. It floors me every time it happens.

~~~
james_s_tayler
It's like the 3rd biggest economy with a large population, and basically the
closest thing Asia has to the West while at the same time being so not
Western.

Interest in Japan is higher than average among the software developer crowd.
My wife teaches Japanese and her biggest clientele demographic is single, male
engineers in their 20s.

~~~
kriro
I'd argue Korea is as close to the west, potentially closer.

~~~
markdown
You mean South Korea. There is no country called Korea.

~~~
jdietrich
Strictly speaking, there's no country called South Korea - there's the
Republic of Korea and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, both of which
make a territorial claim over the whole peninsula.

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eloisant
> Non-Keidanren members, not bound by the guidelines, have been snapping up
> promising students before member companies have even started recruiting.

Wait, shukatsu happens 1 year before graduation. Does that mean other
companies start recruiting even earlier?

When I read that shukatsu was changing I expected it to become more like
western societies, not even weirder

~~~
SenHeng
I majored in industrial design and the large automotive companies and several
_makers_ begin recruitment during our 3rd years summer holidays. They call it
internships or summer workshops, but having attended those gives you a leg up
in the process. I attended the Honda’s winter internship/official recruitment
and the summer participants were on very friendly terms with the recruiting
staff. Not HR, but regular employees roped in to interview and judge their
worthiness.

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Iv
I am wondering: why so many news about Japan on this site? Do many readers
live here?

There are changes in every society in the world right now, yet I have the
impression that Japan gets a big part of coverage while having little
relevance to the rest of the world...

~~~
garganzol
Japan has deep philosophical and business traditions that appeal to the rest
of industrial world.

Personally I adore Japan. It is surely a country from the future. It has so
many lessons to give for the rest of us.

~~~
fiblye
Had a good laugh at this.

Japan is firmly stuck in the 80s. The only major change is now most people
here have smartphones.

Japan does some things very right, and some things horribly wrong. Not too
different from most other developed countries.

~~~
Freak_NL
As a foreigner to Japan you'll pick up on lots of things, habits, and systems
that work really well and could serve as examples for other countries. But
study the country more in-depth or live there for a longer period of time, and
you'll see the parts that make you wish Japan would adopt some things many of
us take for granted.

In Europe having five weeks of paid vacation is pretty much standard.
Employers are well aware that holidays benefit both employer and employee,
because a well-rested and refreshed employee soon has those missing hours made
up for in inspiration, efficiency, and a much lower sick-rate.

In Japan this is unachievable not because the government doesn't desire it (on
the contrary) but because of inertia in the workplace. As a Japanese friend
recently explained to me: you can't take off many more days beyond the public
holidays like in the golden week, because your senior colleagues didn't get to
do that when they were younger either. With the strict hierarchy of seniority
in Japanese companies and institutions, that basically means the end of that
discussion until the desire for change becomes so great that it happens on a
national scale.

On the other hand, they have warm 缶コーヒー from vendingmachines, so they are
living in the future. At least a bit.

~~~
throw0101a
> _In Japan this is unachievable not because the government doesn 't desire it
> (on the contrary) but because of inertia in the workplace._

Also: working hours. (From what I've heard.)

Spending an ungodly number of hours in the office, even if half of them are
unproductive, and where you can actually fall asleep from exhaustion--but
that's okay, as long as you're at your desk.

