

Ask HN: What to build into a better Social Network? - starter

Facebook will soon be a decade old and frankly, its starting to feel bloated and behind the times. I think I can do better.<p>Besides the fact that many people are already on FB, what would you be happy to see in a new social network?<p>I would like to go back to the basics. What's your opinion on more Privacy, more User Control and NO Apps &#38; Games?
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jeffool
Honestly, that so many people are on Facebook does little for me. (I mean, do
users mind being the first to sign up for a new service? Don't many (an
increasing number?) dig that?) But everyone I once knew from highschool wanted
to add me on Facebook... And then we continued to not stay in touch with each
other. It's not about social networks, but people instead go for the metagame
of "friend accumulation" so they can pretend that they're Ashton Kutcher or
something. Weird.

And actually, I closed my Facebook a while back. Well, I put up an image
saying I was no longer responding there, but friends can contact me through
other means listed in my profile. Close enough.

What do I want in a social network? Functionality that isn't about something
trying to become the medium. That's what MySpace was and Facebook is, services
trying to supplant the rest of the Internet. Messages, posts, walls,
galleries, info, etc.? I have email, a blog, Twitter, IM, Flickr, a calendar,
and a phone number for calling/texting people I talk to most often. I'm easily
contactable for friends, as they are to me.

So all the problems that Facebook "solves"? Not really problems for me. And
increasingly as more people use computers every day (yes, there are many who
still don't,) those things won't be problems for everyone else either. These
networks exist to help shoehorn those who aren't digitally literate (or those
willing to sacrifice ability for ease) into the present. I honestly do think
the need for this, will eventually start shrinking until it hits a base where
people who are just uninterested in the Internet will be the only ones using
them. Ironic, eh?

You want me to sign up for another social network? Offer some unique
functionality I didn't realize I was missing, or build your network around
something niche that I can't say "no" to. (Actually this reminds me of the
"What would you do if you owned MySpace?" post from about a month ago:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2499250> )

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starter
These are parallel to my thoughts: All fine and dandy but what's the point? I
don't want to copy FB's business model. I'm looking for a new mission.

FB keeps adding features we didn't know we were missing. If what I build is
better, it means going beyond functionality to build something that redefines
what the Social Network is.

I don't just want you to sign up for some feature you'll detest in a year.
Maybe the question I should be asking is "What do You Wish the Social Network
Could Do for You"?

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jeffool
Ah man. I wrote a long-ass reply, but I lost it when trying to post. I'll try
to quickly hammer out a readable version.

"What do I want a social network to do for me?" The only reason I ever
actively used Facebook was to look up info on my friends. So, I suppose I want
a passive "black book" more than anything. A universal contact list.

Let users enter their data for defined fields (personal email, professional
email, personal phone, pro phone, address, IMs, popular sites) and then them
also define their own fields for inclusion (in case I want to let people know
a particular forum or new service I spend time on. It's a good way to see what
your users use.)

Then display it in a very minimalist way. Ever used Passpack? It lists my
services, and has a grid of icons. So, list my contacts, and their info. When
they don't have that info, leave the grid blank or grayed out. When they do,
offer a clickable link for the site/service. (A link to IM them on that
service, or to their profile on a site.)

Also let me add labels to each service, and to my contacts. For example, my
personal email would have "friends", "online friends", and "family" labels,
allowing each person I assigned those labels to see my personal email.

And bonus points if people sign up with their email addresses or phone
numbers, rather than a site-specific username. It's silly for people to have
to jockey for those on another service, relegating themselves to
bigThunder1452 or the likes.

Asking users for the passwords (but not storing them) to confirm they own the
accounts they list is nice, too. If a user hasn't logged in within the past
month, ask them to confirm their data upon login.

With a minimalist design of a banner at the top, a list of recent contacts at
login, and ways to list people by label, alpha, letter, or by account type,
Throw an ad at the bottom or on a side.

I'm betting many business professionals would keep that tab open like I
currently do with Gmail.

Hell, I've even thought of a name. Call it FriendInfo, and use FriendIn.fo,
with, of course, purchasing friendinfo.com and friend.info as redirects.

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starter
_I want a passive "black book" more than anything. A universal contact list._
Got it. I like your thoughts. You've got what you want down to a science.

The summary in three sentences: Build a passive _blackbook_ with universally
accessible contacts which allows ease of use and encourages participation with
a points system. Layer a minimalistic design on top and lock it down with a
bit of password security.

So simple. Did I miss anything?

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jeffool
Aside from how much I obviously like to ramble? ;)

I wasn't thinking a point system, more like, "Once you connect to other
people, it your job to keep your information up to date, and what information
others have access to."

Maybe ask people when signing up, "To help you stay in contact, we'd like to
send you a reminder to keep this information up to date! Please choose a time
frame for a reminder:" and let them choose 3 or 6 months. At least, I don't
think an email once every six months (saying "your friends have this contact
information from you:" If this is not up to date, please log in an update your
contact info!) is spamming.

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michael_dorfman
_I think I can do better._

If you think you can do better than Facebook, then you have no reason to be
asking us for advice. Clearly, you've already got some incredibly powerful
idea that will get you enough traction to the "chicken/egg" problem for you,
and compete with a company that has a user base of 600 million and billions of
dollars in the bank.

So, don't waste your time chatting here-- go out and build it! And then, come
back and show us, ok?

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starter
I really do. Doesn't phase me because FB is turning into the slow moving
monster that its founders once feared.

What you said is what I needed to hear. Thanks. Just catching some advice
before building it over the summer. I'll be back!

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veyron
The real problem is that even facebook seems aol-esque from he onset. It was
not technologically revolutionary. Its niche was the cachet conjured from the
marketing strategy (harvard -> ivy league schools -> colleges in general ->
students in general -> public). Given that facebook has reached critical mass,
its hard to imagine a solution that is incrementally better than facebook that
could achieve critical mass.

Yes there was myspace / whatever other social networking sites, but the
problem there was that none of them reached critical mass.

The only way you could build a better social network is if you really re-
thought the problem. Thinking about stuff like privacy controls and apps is
taking a facebook-like perspective on the matter, and you won't get anywhere.

You need to think about how a 21st century platform would behave. Define your
niche.

And unless you plan on setting up a 501c3, you need to think about how this
could be monetized. Ads? Now it would really be slick if you could find a
better way of executing ads -- somehow 5 ads per page doesn't really appeal to
me

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starter
True. Love the minimalism but the "aol-esque" feel is lacking. Truth is, being
socially revolutionary, not technologically revolutionary is what made FB
dominant.

So, I need to really rethink the social problem. Maybe I should be asking
"What Social Problem Needs to Be Solved to Reach Critical Mass?".

And, thanks for the suggestion. Looks like my solution will involve better ad
execution or none at all.

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imjonathanlee
Been there done that. I spent over a year to create something that was
supposed to be better than facebook. It took that long, because whenever I
believed i had an idea that topped facebook- they went ahead and bought out
another startup that offered the exact feature you were going to offer on your
site. So you think of something new, and pretty soon, your site becomes as
bloated as what facebook is now.

Like many posters, Facebook isn't "technologically revolutionary" - it simply
went along with the flow and had the right people at the right time.

The reason why my social networking site failed was because users don't find
another reason to jump ship from facebook to yours. All your close friends
would definitely go and invite people, but there's a limit to how far people
go to collect users for you before it's considered spam.

The top response I got was " Oh another social networking site?"

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starter
I feel sorry for you. I know I'm going to do this because I don't play by the
odds. Mark Zuckerburg certainly didn't.

Do your homework and a project like this really shouldn't have taken you a
whole year. Sometimes you've got to just ship the thing and get feedback.
After all, its for the people, not for you.

Why didn't you release it to a certain college instead of starting from your
friends? Like Barbara Corcoran stated on Mixergy, "never go to your family and
friends to practice..." You should know why.

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petervandijck
"Besides the fact that many people are already on FB" as pg might say: "that
is the ONLY thing you should worry about. Don't spend time on ANYTHING else
until you solve this."

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starter
Ok, you've got my attention. I didn't think I could control the number of
people on FB until I've built something people want more.

Are you saying I should start building now or are you really saying that I
need to solve this "number of people on FB" problem first?

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petervandijck
You need to focus all your efforts on figuring out a way to get people's
friends on the system. Without that, all other features are futile. How are
you going to get people's friends on there? You should not worry about
anything else.

In other words: is privacy going to get my friends on there? If not, drop it.
Is "no games" going to get my friends on there? Is more user control going to
get my friends on there?

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starter
Got it. First, I need to the network effect. Everything else is just icing on
the cake.

What I do next from the domain to the scripting language to the release
locations will be focused not only on getting results but on getting the right
results. Thanks!

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revorad
_What's your opinion on more Privacy, more User Control and NO Apps & Games?_

Sounds extremely boring to me.

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dbaugh
Sounds actually useful and not like a time sink designed to force feed ads to
users.

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starter
Thanks for grasping the point. More Privacy, more User Control and NO Apps &
Games would simply be one way to solve the usability issue.

Right now, social networks are like junk food for humans. You know what I
mean. I would like to solve that flaw sooner rather than later.

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ddemchuk
How is that a flaw? They have SIX HUNDRED MILLION USERS.

People want junk food. That's why everyone is fat and dumb. They watch junk on
TV, read junk online, say junk to people on facebook, and eat junk at home.

0.000001% of people care about privacy and control and less apps & games.

Allow me to categorize my friends into work, friends, family, public
categories and you're on the right track. Come up with a novel way to
communicate with each other.

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starter
You really believe FB will rule the world with under 50% of the world's *
_current_ internet users? I foresee millions of "new customers" with different
expectations in the next decade. FaceBook wasn't first and I don't believe
they'll be last.

Junk food? True but I'd rather be Starbucks than McDonalds. If I do this,
we're doing it right. I'll be back with something you can see this summer.

You want a simple _organized directory_ that makes communication with your
_entire network_ dead easy? Got it.

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hansy
I am starting a brand new social network with two other developers on board. I
would love to connect, even if it's just to bounce ideas off each other.

Don't worry I won't steal your idea my company already has in motion what we
want in a social network :)

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starter
That's cool. I'm willing to serve up ideas since I'm passionate about solving
the social problem. What's your strategy? Release to the masses?

How far are you into the process? Do you have a domain yet? Why don't we wait
until I start coding the project this Summer. I'll have something built by
then so we can compare notes and structure.

Sound like a plan! I've got your contact info; I'll be in touch.

