
Massimo Pigliucci on Stoicism - magda_wang
http://fivebooks.com/interview/massimo-pigliucci-stoicism/
======
Jtsummers
> He lived in Nicopolis to a ripe age of 80, which for the time was
> remarkable.

> That’s the equivalent of 200 today presumably.

While 80 was certainly impressive, it wasn't like 200. It was quite
achievable. Average life expectancies were low because of infant mortality,
not because people actually died at 30 on average. If you made it past
childhood, lived in a decent part of the world (that is, generally food and
water and shelter available, didn't risk starvation or injury in war or
hunting), you could easily live a long life. Someone living in a metropolitan
area, like Rome at the time, who made it to adulthood and didn't have to hunt
or go to war could live a decently long life.

~~~
lkozma
> Average life expectancies were low because of infant mortality

I heard this argument many many times, including in reputable places, and I
never quite understood it. Just to make sure, the argument is something like
"in stone age/bronze age/ancient times/medieval Europe/etc. average life
expectancy was 30/40/50/whatever, but only if we factor in child mortality,
otherwise people lived reasonable # of years".

Do we have any reliable estimates about child mortality in those times to make
such a claim? What about other accidents/violence/etc. Was it different from
one place to the other? Do we have any data on this to come up with _any_
estimate? Could it be that child mortality was so high, that avg. life
expectency was like 10 years? When we informally say that people in those
times "lived less" is it really reasonable to consider such factors? What did
people actually live in those times?

~~~
dghf
> Do we have any reliable estimates about child mortality in those times to
> make such a claim?

I'm guessing you could make a start by counting how many child skeletons vs
adult skeletons you dig up? Plus if you're looking at a literate society,
they'll be some written records, even if not formal death registries: receipts
for payments for funerals, personal letters, diaries, etc.

~~~
lkozma
Yes, I agree, but my point was more that I doubt that those who suggest a
value of, say, 29.4 for stone age humans, have gone through any these
calculations.

~~~
Jtsummers
They don't just make the numbers up. They have a reason for them. Either
historical records, dated human remains, or by comparison to similar
populations from other eras/locations where those exist.

~~~
lkozma
I very much doubt that we have that kind of information available about
prehistoric (say, Neantherthal) humans, except perhaps in very sparse and
unreliable form.

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munchbunny
I really enjoyed reading this article as an overview of both what ideas of
stoicism are practically applicable to our daily lives, but also for the
historical sense of how the Greeks and Romans saw it.

Perhaps it glossed over some of Stoicism's less correct beliefs, the "physics"
that the article refers to. However, the part that has always drawn me to the
subject is how much the Stoics got right about consciously managing your
emotions in a healthy way. The part about distinguishing indignation/rage from
having a strong sense of justice really resonates with me given some of the
more recent social controversies.

------
B1FF_PSUVM
"""

[Q] Just in passing, that strategy of turning insults into humour could result
in a broken nose in certain contexts.

[A] Yes. Funny you should say so. Epictetus says exactly this in the
Discourses, he says: ‘I used to go round responding humorously to people and
then I got my nose broken.’ And he adds: ‘— so I don’t do it anymore, I just
walk away.’

"""

Now that we have the internet, snark's up to stratospheric levels. Went up a
lot with the press, but there was still the odd horse-whip wielding aggrieved
party to consider.

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goblin89
> The very reason why you can keep on going, struggling on, and living your
> life, and trying to do your best, is precisely because you know that if it
> becomes unbearable, you do have another option.

While I’m against the de-facto suicide prohibition that we today observe in
our societies, I find it worth acknowledging that in what’s ultimately an
unknown-length-run it’s an inevitability, not an option.

