

Twitter,  Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal - bdfh42
http://www.ericsink.com/entries/dual_class_computing.html

======
TorKlingberg
I read posts like this often, and I think the author makes the common geek
mistake of assuming that the way normal people use computers is a subset of
how geeks use them. Take out all the programming, modding and even file
handling and you get what ordinary users need.

This is not true. Non-geeks use computers in all kinds of ways geeks never
think of. They use a very specific genealogy application. They connect an
obscure 10 year old water sample analyzer. They connect a keyboard and record
music.

This is why all attempts to make a simplified limited computer over the years
have failed. Ordinary people need the full flexibility of a computer. Make it
simple to use, but not limited.

~~~
njharman
> all attempts to make a simplified limited computer over the years have
> failed

Really? Ever heard about iTouch/iPhone? They are the very definition of

> Make it simple to use, but not limited.

Tivo is another simplified, very limited computer. That is the nature of
consumer devices. Limited but exceptionally simple and "just works" at the
thing they do.

~~~
Kejistan
And yet you don't buy an iPhone as a replacement for your computer. People
still need a "real" computer, and for that reason we're probably not going to
see computers go the way of the dodo in favor of iPads.

~~~
evgen
The only reason my parents don't use an iPhone as a replacement for their
computer is the screen size. The _only_ reason. For a reasonably large subset
of "people" a 'real' computer is an unnecessarily complicated device.

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tseabrooks
I wish the title of this submission had been better. I'd have read it much
sooner.

I've taken to calling iPad-esque ideas "Internet Appliance" (I'm sure I got
that from somewhere else and I doubt it's original). I think the article
misses one important point though - businesses. As far as consumer products I
don't see my mom (metaphor) buying a standard desktop PC again assuming
similar devices to the iPad come from other makers. Businesses, OTOH, I expect
to continue to use traditional PCs for many years to come. People who work in
front of PCs need lots of screen real-estate even those doing accounting-and
these businesses have tons of legacy SW that it took them years to migrate to
new systems (many of them still haven't).

This will be a boon to geeks. As businesses hold onto the traditional
computers we will all benefit and continue to get much of our hardware fairly
cheaply.

~~~
misuba
The average business today would fall apart if people suddenly got that time
back that they spend dealing with IT. They'd fill the time with political
machinations and end up eating each other alive.

More seriously, I predict that we'll see official support products for linking
multiple iPads together in a workstation capacity within a year. Well,
probably just two iPads at most, but third-party products might go for more.

~~~
pyre
> _More seriously, I predict that we'll see official support products for
> linking multiple iPads together in a workstation capacity within a year.
> Well, probably just two iPads at most, but third-party products might go for
> more._

Are you talking 'iPad-like devices' or actual iPads? If you're talking actual
iPads, I see the price as a barrier to these becoming ubiquitous devices. If
the 'pad' market follows the PC market, Apple will just be at the luxury end
of the spectrum.

------
matrix
For those that don't know the source of the headline:

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxFrgql5dc>

(I shall never forgive Fox for canceling that show. Never.)

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hubb
"The genius of the iPad is that it cannot get things like viruses."

safari can certainly be compromised, but even with the sandboxing that claim
seems like a stretch

~~~
fossguy
It will be way less common, specialy considering that you can't execute
anything in there...

~~~
daeken
That's a very, very silly idea. If the device can be jailbroken by browsing a
webpage that exploits a vulnerability in the browser, such a page could also
infect your device. The idea that the iPhone/iPod touch/iPad are any less
vulnerable to viruses than any other networked device out there is just plain
wrong. People can and will attack these devices, it's just a matter of how
difficult it is; from my experience with auditing Apple's products, the
difficulty level is generally somewhere between trivial and damn-near-trivial.

~~~
derefr
The difference is that fixing an iPad won't require a repair shop; it'll
require plugging it into your computer, which will go through its normal
syncing cycle of backing it up, then upgrading apps—but it'll notice the
invalid app checksums on infected apps and overwrite them with App-Store-
canonical versions. If kernel-level viruses become prevalent, it'll simply
start checksumming that too, and offering to restore from an IPSW with all
your data (but nome of your config) intact (but that won't be a problem, since
part of Apple's aesthetic is "low configuration.")

Interestingly, it'll mean that only jailbreakers—and those with no access to a
computer to sync with—will ever have viruses for more than one sync cycle.

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benwerd
For me this article boils down to this one bullet point:

"The industry is finally ready to sell things that make geeks feel frustrated
instead of things that make normal people feel helpless. What does this mean
for geeks and our role in society?"

It'll mean great things for geeks. A userbase who no longer fears computers or
hates IT departments will allow for more interesting applications, better
collaborations and the end of geeks as second class citizens in many
organizations. That is, as long as they play along.

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rjurney
It turns out that interface innovations for Mom also work for hackers -
provided that you still have access to a *nix toolkit. Witness the popularity
of the Macbook among developers. But then you wouldn't really want bash on an
iPad, would you? That is not what the iPad is for. Hackers also passively
consume information too, and when they do their needs aren't different than
Mom's - an intuitive interface that does not get in their way.

~~~
misuba
I doubt I'll need bash, but I'm gonna want emacs. Maybe Bespin will be
adequate, I don't know.

~~~
acgourley
I'll need multi-tasking before I can consider this anything more than a toy
I'm using in the same room as my laptop.

~~~
derefr
Pretend you could have as many of them as you wanted—10 to run 10 apps at
once. Would that make it less of a toy?

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bdfh42
I have been banging on for a long time that as soon as someone produces a
decent home computer that is actually designed to be a consumer good then the
price of computers as we know them will start to rocket upwards.

We probably need to start thinking about just what constitutes a good
developers platform so we can all get behind it and achieve some sort of
economies of scale.

~~~
njharman
> designed to be a consumer good

That is the iPad, and iPhone/iTouch before it. I don't know what you mean by
"decent home computer" but for me "decent computer" is not compatible to
"consumer good". Consumer goods are black boxes that just work, computers are
DIY tools.

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tjic
Sure way to make me read a blog post: reference a line of Firefly dialogue in
the title!

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Estragon
He presents a false dichotomy. There is nothing stopping an iPad-like UX being
configurable in a way which makes geeks happy. It's just a matter of putting
the configuration controls out of the way of most users.

~~~
chadgeidel
I'm not sure how to put this, so bear with me. Once you go down the road of
"configurability" you immediately lose the focus that would come with a device
like this. IMO the reason that the IPhone/IPod/IPad interface "works" is
because they PREVENT things. It isn't for everyone, sure, but it works for
most people. Good UX design is as much about removing abilities as it is about
gaining them.

Your average "joe on the street" doesn't want a computer, they want a consumer
electronic device (a game console, a point-and-shoot camera, a television).

~~~
ssp
Yes, it's a common nerd delusion that the UI is a presentation layer on top of
something else and that you can therefore have an "iPad-like UX" presenting
some complicated underlying system.

This thinking leads to a kind of UI cargo cult where the nerds are copying
superficial aspects of the iPad without understanding what fundamental
properties make it "iPad-like".

~~~
pyre
Why not go the game console route and just have an 'Other OS' option? Pad-like
devices don't preclude geekiness. It's just that Apple is currently the only
'real world' implementation and they are very anal about their devices.

I think that most people are 'up in arms' about things like the inability to
install 'unapproved' apps. When Microsoft was trying to push the 'Trusted
Computing' platform people were rabidly against it because then it would cause
Microsoft to be the sole approver of applications for Windows. Now that Apple
has created the same thing within the iPhone/iPad-OS people praise them for it
and call it innovative and revolutionary.

> _This thinking leads to a kind of UI cargo cult where the nerds are copying
> superficial aspects of the iPad without understanding what fundamental
> properties make it "iPad-like"._

So people look at a device, and copy the aspects of it that they like. Now
they are a 'cargo cult' because these aspects are not the aspects that you
like?

~~~
derefr
Apple makes decisions based on consumer experience. They made Boot Camp
because they wanted the user experience of dual-booting Windows on an Apple
computer to be something even grandma could learn to work with. Unless there's
some specific, other OS users are demanding to run on the iPad (Android?)
Apple won't make the investment to create something Boot Camp-like for it—and
that means they won't support it, because they're perfectionists.

~~~
pyre
> _because they're perfectionists._

I think that you mean _he_ is a perfectionist (as in Steve Jobs). I doubt that
everyone at Apple is a perfectionist, but perfection is expected of them as an
edict from 'on high.'

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johnl87
I really don't see the authors point and completely disagree with him.
Computers were originally used by people to get work done. It's why they were
invented in the first place. And the only way to get work done was to know how
to write a program. Now the "normal" people just want to use the web and chat
with their friends.

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jac_no_k
Look to Japan for making technology appliances.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1197702>

This is a country where high speed Internet connection is common but from my
observation, a lot of households to not have a general purpose computer.

~~~
jff
This may help explain why so many Japanese websites seem to be utterly
atrocious--fewer people looking at them.

------
kreneskyp
What i don't agree with is that he focuses on the older generation, his mom,
when the problems he describes won't exist as much for younger generations.
His mom started using a computer past the point where it was hard for her to
learn things. Of course it will be confusing to her.

Coming generations grow up with easy access to computers, and will know how to
use them well. Eventually we will get to a point where very few people are
computer illiterate.

Some anecdotal evidence. It took my mom 3 months to figure out how to make an
itunes account, another few months before she figured out how to install an
app. My 3 year old son had to show her how to play movies, on both the iphone
and on boxee.

~~~
rapind
This really just depends on your definition of computer literate. I don't buy
that having a facebook account makes you a computer wiz. Neither does owning a
smart phone. There are computers in my car and I have'nt a clue how they work.

What does computer literate even mean? If it means comfortable with the
command line / terminal, then I absolutely don't beleive that tomorrows kids
will fall within the classification.

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empika
I think the middle ground of this possible fututre is very interesting. What
happens to all those folks who use specialist software such as CAD, Design,
Music and other areas that still need highend systems and that know nothing
about computers. I have plenty of musician friends who know nothing about
computers but know Cubase or Logic like the back of their hands. The next 5
years will be interesting!

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Same thing that happened 15 years ago,perhaps?

I have a gorgeous SGI Indigo in my basement office courtesy of the company I
worked for when they were tossing them (lots of them!) in the dumpster. Back
in the day, you needed a "Workstation Class" PC to run the big CAD
applications and many mechanical engineers had a computer whose _only_ purpose
was to run that CAD system.

I don't think we'll go all the way back to "a computer only for CAD" but we
will have computers sold that are optimized for CAD, music production, etc.

------
extension
_What should we call the class of devices that help normal people manage their
Amazon wish list?_

Momputers?

