
Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up - shlema
http://char.gd/microsoft/why-i-left-mac-for-windows/
======
jmcdiesel
I used to be hardcore windows guy...

Then 10 years ago I got a mac. I never went back..

But what am I saving money for right now? To build a nice PC again.

Mostly because of the exact reasons in the article.

I have a fondness for apple... but they have definitely lost their way. First,
they were a computer company driven by a man who loved computers ("first" here
is the Jobs return era) ... then they became a Computer company who also made
a phone. Then they became a computer company who also made a phone and a
tablet. Then they became a phone company who also made computers and tablets.

Now they are a phone company who presides over the death throws of an amazing
operating system that is going to be killed off to make it more like a phone.
The new "features" every cycle are more "lets put this phone feature on the
desktop"

It makes me sad, as a mac fan. The hardware is getting worse. The decisions
are getting dumber every time. I wont buy a laptop without a magsafe or
similar connection, i have kids and animals, and the magsafe has saved a
laptop more than once.. to remove something that was as core and identifiable
a part of their computers was just a stupid move and served no purpose.

They don't listen to the industry or the consumers anymore, they stick their
fingers in their ears and pretend to know best.

Jobs was hardheaded, but reasonable. Cook is trying to emulate the
hardheadedness but fails to recognize the reasonability needed to balance
that.

~~~
ozmbie
Apple is a still computer company, because Phones ARE computers.

For the majority of the population in developed countries, and almost all of
the population of developing countries, smartphones are the only computer
people have or need.

I agree that Apple have shifted focus away from "making tools for people to
create things and solve problems" towards consumption-oriented mobile devices.
But those devices are still computers, and they're wildly successful.

If Apple devoted their focus to products in proportion to their revenue, then
they would be putting 12x as much effort into the iPhone than they would for
the entire Mac lineup.

~~~
patrickg_zill
You're correct that phones are computers, however:

Solidworks, AutoCAD, etc. don't run on phones

Photoshop/Lightroom/Illustrator don't run on phones

SPICE, VHDL, Verilog don't run on phones

InDesign and other DTP programs don't run on phones

Emacs/Vi don't run on phones

There are a host of actually-useful programs that are completely unsuitable
for run on phone-computers, that do run well on laptop-computers and desktop-
computers.

~~~
stonemetal
Vim and Emacs support Android. Vim is also on iOS.

VIM:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.momodalo.a...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.momodalo.app.vimtouch&hl=en)

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vim/id492668168?mt=8](https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vim/id492668168?mt=8)

Emacs:
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zielm.emac...](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zielm.emacs&hl=en)

~~~
snovv_crash
Yes, but on iOS you still can't compile or run any of the programs you write.

------
coldtea
> _But recently, I realized I’d gotten tired of Apple’s attitude toward the
> desktop. The progress in macOS land has basically been dead since Yosemite,
> two years ago, and Apple’s updates to the platform have been incredibly
> small._

So, like creating a full blown new programming language (Swift)? Or a full new
filesystem (AFS)? Integration of Cloud storage directly to the desktop? Siri
on the desktop? Saving RAM through memory compression? Continuity to transfer
work across desktop and mobile (and different desktops) seamlessly? All things
added in the last few years, with few of them still ongoing.

Sure -- they've totally abandoned it /s.

> _Take a look at Sierra: the only feature of note is Siri, which is half-
> baked as it is, and the things that did get ported over from iOS are half-
> done too._

That's hardly "the only feature of note". But even so, I wouldn't want Apple
to continue to change much in OS X, except refining things.

> _and so I was tempted away in early 2013 when Apple released its second-
> generation 15 " Retina MacBook Pro._

So, you're merely 3 years of the platform, but have an opinion on how Apple
"pivoted its attention" regarding OS released based on just a couple of OSes?
Because I've been here since 10.2 and most releases weren't about breakthrough
features, but refinement and minor changes (often regressions).

If it discussed the state of Mac Pro and Mac Mini the post would actually have
a leg to stand...

~~~
owenwil
>So, like creating a full blown new programming language (Swift)?

Byproduct of Apple's work on mobile.

> Or a full new filesystem (AFS)?

Byproduct of Apple's work on mobile.

> Siri on the desktop?

Byproduct of mobile again! (By the way, ask Siri on Mac to set an alarm or
interact with homekit!)

But, I take your point. I tried to mostly detail Apple's lack of attention for
developers, but perhaps missed the emphasis on that there in the post.
Microsoft is _really_ trying with developers and it's readily apparent.

~~~
DannyBee
"Byproduct of mobile." If you need evidence:

Swift appeared in IOS first and still is not great on the desktop at all.

APFS (not AFS) is the default in IOS, and still in feature preview and pretty
unusable in 10.12. It's "expected" it will be released for desktop in 2017

Siri on the desktop is mostly useless, as said here.

~~~
coldtea
> _Swift appeared in IOS first_

Which makes perfect sense. We talk to our phones all the time anyway, and
hands-free is crucial. For desktop, not so much.

> _APFS (not AFS) is the default in IOS, and still in feature preview and
> pretty unusable in 10.12. It 's "expected" it will be released for desktop
> in 2017_

Which makes perfect sense. A constrained environment without an exposed
filesystem like iOS is easier to convert to a new FS. A full blown desktop OS
not so much. That's why it needs much more testing and development to deliver
the latter.

But they ARE doing this testing and development.

(Btw, APFS is not "the default in iOS" yet. It will be when 10.3 is released
-- it is still in beta atm).

~~~
addicted
I agree it makes sense.

But it also indicates that Apple isn't really designing for the Mac as the
author points out.

I mean, Siri is the biggest feature Apple is touting for Sierra
([http://www.apple.com/macos/sierra/](http://www.apple.com/macos/sierra/)).
And as you point out, it's something that doesn't even make all that much
sense on the Mac.

~~~
coldtea
> _But it also indicates that Apple isn 't really designing for the Mac as the
> author points out._

Maybe they don't but I don't see them doing anything major on the iOS side
either. Both platforms are quite mature by now anyway.

(And Apple was never about revolutionary new designs and jumps. Back in the
day of the iPod and early MBPs etc, we cheered and waited anxiously for at
best incremental changes -- now it has USB, now it has a different touch
wheel, now it has a color screen, now it has wifi, now it does video, etc,
year over year).

> _And as you point out, it 's something that doesn't even make all that much
> sense on the Mac._

Yes, but people (and pundits) have been asking for it all the same to appear
on the Mac anyway.

And "talking to your computer" has been a thing from the times of 50's sci-fi
stories even.

~~~
jsgo
I'm sure they'll figure it out at some point, but the mystique of Apple only
releasing something when it was "ready" has been over for a while now. So not
only did it come later, it was less evolved than the Windows implementation a
year prior. Cortana felt useful from day one for various tasks. Siri? Only in
a subset cases.

~~~
yborg
Siri is a humiliating embarrassment. There is no other way to describe it. The
only time I ever use it is for comedic relief, or to demonstrate the obvious
superiority of either Google's, Microsoft's, or Amazon's implementations. To
Apple, it's just another in a long series of marketing-driven features rolled
out into some perceived white space in the competitive landscape and then
abandoned. It's ridiculous that something so potentially game-changing to
enable non-technical users, which is theoretically the market Apple thinks it
owns, has gotten such short shrift at Apple, even in the face of growing (and
superior) competition.

~~~
voltagex_
> The only time I ever use it is for comedic relief, or to demonstrate the
> obvious superiority of either Google's, Microsoft's, or Amazon's
> implementations.

Curious here - can you give some examples? Siri seems to work better (on
friends' devices) than "OK Google" on my Moto X.

------
Razengan
Oh please. Not this again.

I recently had the pleasure of checking in on Windows for the second time in 7
years. I had been a PC user since the DOS days, starting on a 286, and going
all the way to Windows 8 when I switched to Macs around 2010. I've only ever
needed Windows for games since then, and decided to install Boot Camp on the
15" 2016 MacBook Pro that I just got (which happens to be a pretty good
machine [1], all in all, and runs Paragon [2] in high detail at 1920x1080 60
FPS; enough for me.)

There is still so much wrong with Windows I honestly don't know where to
begin. The UI remains a convoluted Escher'esque nightmare. Apple and macOS are
still FAR from fucking up badly enough to make me want to willingly head back
to Microsoft.

I am running both Sierra and the latest version of Windows 10 side-by-side
(with Parallels Desktop) so the differences are very glaring and obvious.
Maybe I'll write up an in-depth comparison later.

[1]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13790106](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13790106)

[2] [https://www.epicgames.com/paragon/en-
US/home](https://www.epicgames.com/paragon/en-US/home)

~~~
arkades
> The UI remains a convoluted Escher'esque nightmare.

Comments like this make it hard to take any side of the discussion seriously.

/Neither/ of the OSes are "Escher'esque nightmare[s]." My elderly mother can
kludge her way through both of them, more or less reliably - admittedly, with
more trouble than using her phone, but not _a lot_ more.

Nothing that a tech-illiterate can reasonably use on a day-to-day basis
qualifies as a "nightmare." Can we please stop pitching hyperbole-for-effect
until it nullifies the entire discussion?

~~~
Razengan
> _Comments like this make it hard to take any side of the discussion
> seriously. /Neither/ of the OSes are "Escher'esque nightmare[s]."_

• macOS Finder:
[http://i.imgur.com/9Y5hK0e.png](http://i.imgur.com/9Y5hK0e.png)

• Windows Explorer:
[http://i.imgur.com/ef7CnJ4.png](http://i.imgur.com/ef7CnJ4.png)

Alright. Maybe not nightmarish, but one of these _IS_ objectively more
_convoluted_ than the other.

Let's start with something simple:

WHY does the "Options" button on the Windows Explorer Ribbon (in the top-right
corner) drop-down to reveal a SINGLE menu item which DOES THE EXACT SAME THING
as clicking on the button itself?

(Bonus: This is what happened when I tried to take a screenshot first:
[http://i.imgur.com/UsN554o.png](http://i.imgur.com/UsN554o.png) — Explorer
hanged when trying to remove a shortcut to a now-missing network share.)

~~~
arkades
Perhaps you're failing to view things from the perspective of the average
user?

I see the MacOS Finder and see unlabelled icons. My elderly folks are terrible
at remembering what various icons do, and what error messages are for, etc.
I've trained them to pause and _read_ the words on the toolbar, read the words
on the window, etc. as they're generally self-explanatory.

So the finder that is more convoluted for a more proficient user, is the one
that my folks can actually more reasonably navigate.

Okay, your criticism is on point: the Explorer Options button has a redundant
click. To me, that would matter if I ever used anything other than keyboard
navigation. To my mother, father, and sister, "yay! It's f'n labeled!"

My nieces don't give a damn either way, because they're too young to care
about one unnecessary click, and they don't forget what the icons mean.

Your point isn't _wrong_ , it's just not that clear-cut an issue when dealing
with different people with different levels of proficiency and needs.

But the fact that we're down to "labels vs. reasonably intuitive icons, plus
or minus a redundant click" suggests we're well into the weeds of
trivialities.

~~~
adekok
> I've trained them to pause and read the words on the toolbar, read the words
> on the window, etc. as they're generally self-explanatory.

You're a miracle worker. :)

Failure to _read_ what's on the screen is one of the biggest reasons why "non
computer" people don't get things done with computers.

~~~
saghm
Sometimes not just "non computer people". The number of times as a computer
science TA (for a non-intro class) I had to read people their compiler error
messages is staggering.

------
bluedino
I'm not 100% happy with where Apple is at, but I don't think I ever was. But
I'm not going to switch.

I get the slickest hardware, great battery life, the best touchpad and
keyboard, and a hi-resolution screen that doesn't have battery life, flicker,
tint, or scaling issues.

Windows is still...Windows. The bash subsystem is half-baked. Windows itself
is still the same mess. Docking is still a joke. Performance is terrible,
laptop hardware is still 'almost-as-good', display scaling is a joke, and the
ecosystem is still fragmented beyond belief.

Linux is still as bad as it ever was. It's a nice place to visit but I
wouldn't want to live there. I've been using Linux on laptops since Redhat 7
(the first one from 2000) and a Dell Latitude C-series.

Somehow I shut my laptop off and it booted backup to a failure message, I had
to make another bootable USB and go online to find out how to do a fsck. I was
using external monitors without issue for a month, and then one day the
configuration changed to a point where I couldn't even use the laptop with
it's built-in display. The sound and volume controls are a joke. I was
prevented from installing any packages because of an issue with a package from
Google.

All fairly minor, fixable issues, but I forgot all about them because I
haven't had to deal with crap like that since I switched to a Mac back in
2010.

~~~
AsyncAwait
> Somehow I shut my laptop off and it booted backup to a failure message, I
> had to make another bootable USB and go online to find out how to do a fsck.
> I was using external monitors without issue for a month, and then one day
> the configuration changed to a point where I couldn't even use the laptop
> with it's built-in display. The sound and volume controls are a joke. I was
> prevented from installing any packages because of an issue with a package
> from Google.

A bit of a rant ahead, but I am really tired of people still treating Linux
like it's 1997 or expecting it to work like their old OS did and then running
into silly problems that none of us, who actually spend our day in Linux, run
into.

These problems sound more like inexperience in using Linux to me than anything
else. fsck works automatically after a power failure, configuration doesn't
override itself and installing a package from the web, while not a great way
of doing things, definitely does not prevent you from installing other
packages, unless you somehow broke a whole lot of other stuff by deleting
dependencies without really understanding what you were doing.

~~~
freehunter
With great power comes great responsibility.

If you want raw power, you can buy a car with 500 horsepower. But you handle
all of that power, you'll need traction control and maybe stability control,
and anti-lock brakes for when you need to stop it. But all of that limits the
amount of power you have available, limits your control. Now, a race car
driver would look at these driver assist tools and say "I'm sick of people
expecting race cars to work like their Jetta and then running into problems
that us professional race car drivers don't run into". When you complain that
the tires spin or you are having a hard time working the clutch and steering
wheel without power assist, they might even tell you "these problems sound
more like inexperience with driving race cars than anything else".

And they'd be 100% right. But I'm trying to get to the grocery store, not win
the Daytona 500. I want a car with power steering and an automatic gearbox and
anti-lock brakes and traction control and an airbag. You may say "computers
were designed for power and Linux gives you maximum power!" like the other guy
commenting did but I don't want that because when it inevitably breaks
(because I'm inexperienced), I don't want to be stuck on the side of the road
reading manpages and stack exchange posts with no answers and trying to
navigate mailing lists. I have a job to do.

(Seriously, did saying "sounds like you're just inexperienced with Linux"
sound good in your head? Because it certainly didn't sound good reading it.)

~~~
AsyncAwait
The thing is, you really don't need to "be stuck on the side of the road
reading manpages" these days and what drives me crazy is the outdated
evaluation of Linux, it's like saying, "but viruses and blue screen of death"
about Windows in 2016.

Does it require some adjustment? Sure, just like any new OS. If you're going
to try it, I think it's fair to require you to learn its ways. If you don't
want to do that, why not stick with your old OS?

Mac requires adjustment too, has many problems, (ie WiFi drops, file system,
temps etc.), however I feel the reason people are willing to adjust is because
they paid solid money for it and so want to get the most out of their
purchase. Because Linux is "free", there's no such incentive and thus it is
judged much more harshly.

Hardware selection is another problem, with Mac you get custom tailored
hardware, but with Linux, most people just purchase any random junk PC and
expect it to work great, not really fair is it?

> Seriously, did saying "sounds like you're just inexperienced with Linux"
> sound good in your head? Because it certainly didn't sound good reading it

I am sorry if it sounded harsh, but constantly reading about novice problems I
haven't had in a decade also doesn't "sound good reading".

~~~
bluedino
>> I am sorry if it sounded harsh, but constantly reading about novice
problems I haven't had in a decade also doesn't "sound good reading".

It's not a novice problem. I know what a fsck is and I know you're not
supposed to unmount filesystems improperly. But you shouldn't be presented
with an error that you can't recover without a rescue USB because your system
lost power.

And the video configuration issues are just weird. Monitors plug and play
perfectly but all of a sudden it got so screwed up, I had to poke around quite
a bit to get things back to normal. Frustrating the heck out of me because I'm
used to something that just worked.

~~~
AsyncAwait
I am not saying this didn't happen to you, but it looks like a fluke or a
distro specific bug, since I specifically had power outages while running my
Arch home server and haven't had to recover from USB.

~~~
throwawayish
Usually this happens when the system crashes/otherwise terminates during
system upgrades. Kinda hard to boot if /sbin/init is a link to an empty file.

~~~
AsyncAwait
Well sure, but that is true on every system, hence Windows warns "Do not turn
off your PC".

~~~
throwawayish
Actually Windows can and _does_ use NTFS transactions (TxF) in the Installer
and Updater code, so the probability of non-recoverable damage should be lower
(which is also my experience; power off a Linux machine during updates and you
are pretty much guaranteed to have many packages with empty files, partial
file trees and so on; power off a Windows machine and it probably is still
fine, but sometimes you get weird issues where it can't properly
reinstall/deinstall some updates to try again).

------
atl4s
More FOTM moaning about the state of Apple.

I can't believe people keep reading these "I left Apple and here's why you
should care" articles by front end devs with no real idea of what goes into OS
dev and where macOS has come from since the days of OS8.

Give me a break, surely if you want to use Windows you don't need to write
2000 words in the form of some needlessly pronoun heavy (because your opinion
is _really_ important) diatribe telling us all about how detatched Apple is
from reality and how suddenly Windows is the 'place to be' because suddeny
Windows has bash support, tell me again why I should drop a fully featured,
mature *nix shell for one bolted on top of Windows.

Do people get paid to write articles specifically like this or are these devs
so full of their own self importance that they feel like it's their duty to
inform us of their opinions on the state macOS and why it's suddenly so much
worse than ever before when in reality, macOS has never been more stable or
developer friendly.

It's honestly so predictable I could have guessed 90% of the content of this
article just from the sensationalist headline alone.

~~~
CJefferson
> macOS has never been more stable or developer friendly

* I have to turn off gatekeeper to run unsigned apps.

* I can't write into /bin or /usr on my own machine without flipping some magic option

* I can't run gdb without some complicated signing dance I have to do every time I update it.

* I can't run dtrace without rebooting and switching some secret flag off. I have to tell other people to turn they same thing off so they can dtrace applications.

That's just straight off the top of my head. The dtrace and gdb things are
particularly annoying, as it makes life harder for me to get other users to do
simple debugging tasks, and there is no simple workaround, just complicated
instructions.

~~~
akio
> I have to turn off gatekeeper to run unsigned apps.

Right-click on the unsigned app and select "Open". You only need to do this
the first time you run the app.

~~~
rleigh
If you're a developer or tester, this means _every single time_. Because every
start is the first time for that build...

Regarding the gdb signing, it's painful. Even more so is the privilege
escalation--it's impossible to debug over ssh with gdb or lldb since the GUI
prompt is on a different machine. Not having the prompt in the terminal where
the debugger is being run is asinine. I had to switch to debugging on FreeBSD
to avoid the pain of all this; it's madness.

------
ChicagoBoy11
Oddly enough, I found that reading the article carefully made me consider
switching to Windows LESS.

The author's primary issue seems to be the fact that Apple hasn't been packing
the punch that is necessary for him, and that especially with his wanting to
get started with VR the entire platform is a no-go for him atm. No arguments
there.

But curiously, he spends the bulk of the article either explaining or talking
about the things that he had to compensate or now has to deal with as part of
his swtich: The fact that apps aren't as polished (and neither the OS itself),
issues with installing drivers, Windows Bash that doesn't work quite 100%,
etc., etc.

I switched several years ago as I was finishing college, and like the author
am extremely disappointed in the fact that my MBP can't really do it for me
when it comes to VR. Yet, as per his article, it seems that in just about
every other meaningful way the Windows experience for me (and him) is worse.

More broadly speaking, just about every article I have read touting how great
it was to switch "back" to Windows seems to follow this general trend; it
seems as though everyone who switches is glad to be using machines with more
juice behind them, yet it is clear the computing experience itself is worse. I
can't help but feel that had there just been better graphics/ram options on
the current mac lineup, that pretty much would kill any of the justifications
I see for the switch.

~~~
Eridrus
If there's anything that people expect to stay constant about Apple is that
they will try to tightly control their ecosystem and charge a premium for
that.

If Apple just stopped doing those things, I'd consider running OSX, but they
won't so it seems like an entirely pointless exercise.

It's the same iOS vs Android debate, Apple charge a premium but promise things
will be significantly better, if they are only marginally better then it
becomes harder to justify their premium and lock in.

I think the recent spate of articles are more about the fact that the gap has
been narrowing significantly, partly due to Apple's neglect, partly due to
Microsoft doing better, so the balance is changing for people on the margins.

~~~
ChicagoBoy11
You are right-- you can argue about which way to go, but it is undeniable that
the gap has narrowed. Depending on the way VR/AR develops in the near future,
that will likely be another battle-line over which they will compete, and it
is clear that at least at the outset Microsoft hold a massive advantage.

------
johndoe4589
> The progress in macOS land has basically been dead since Yosemite, two years
> ago,

And the progress on Windows's side is what exactly?

For the end users, instead of business corporations, practically nothing
changes. I swear every freaking version of Windows nearly everything about the
user experience is similar to before. It looks nicer at first glance, but once
you open some apps, particularly the windows apps like msconfig, disk
management and such, you find yourself with UI from ten years ago.

Just look at the file copy window. What a joke. They made it look a bit nicer,
they added a fancy animation while copying, but really, it didn't change at
all. It stills sucks majorly at giving you a proper estimate of the time it
will take to copy a file.

The single biggest change for me in Windows 7 was the ability to use Win +
<number> to switch quickly between apps. It's incredibly useful, and thart's
pretty much the ONLY real change in may day to day experience of Windows
compared to earlier versions.

~~~
Mithaldu
> And the progress on Windows's side is what exactly?

Safety, performance, stability, easier UI (for the average user).

Yeah, none of these things feature well in tv advertisements, but compared to
its predecessors Windows 10 actually does excel in all of those. Heck, i
installed 10 on my parents' cheapo PC and with the same programs and such
installed it actually is more responsive.

> It stills sucks majorly at giving you a proper estimate of the time it will
> take to copy a file.

That's not a software problem, that's a hardware problem. Particularly on SSDs
you have to deal with deletions being surprisingly slow, and in the copying
process itself you often have a very fast phase at the beginning when it's
just slurping the file into ram; and then it drops off when it runs into the
write limit of the target medium and/or runs out of ram to use cache. If
you're copying to the same medium you get an even stronger drop due to
read/write happening on the same thing.

Predicting this is HARD.

The only way to get reliable predictions out of the copy dialog would be to
disable memory caching while copying, and uh, you kinda don't want that. It
would just be predictably slow.

------
protomyth
Unlike the article, I'm not as interested in new features. I really want to
stop having to type _killall Finder_ because I dragged too many files. Its
like Apple doesn't actually use its own products for day to day work. The
whole "Save As" fiasco really screwed a lot of workflows which they sort of
fixed later but not for Preview. Networking has also been a constant issue. I
just wish I didn't keep putting in radars "still an issue".

They need Snow Leopard 2, and someone who cares about PC hardware.

~~~
kharms
>I really want to stop having to type killall Finder because I dragged too
many files.

For what it's worth, I think this will be addressed by the switch to AFS.

~~~
protomyth
I don't think its the filesystem. Finder itself seems to be the problem and it
started with Mavericks about the same time as AppleScript stopped updating the
Finder windows without a close/open.

Another fun problem is copying a bunch of files out of a directory that Finder
has currently opened and watch Finder go catatonic. I get the feeling someone
did a lot of programming in Finder without proper testing.

------
otterley
The question I'm left asking from posts like these is:

As a non-game developer, what practical advantages does Windows hardware and
software provide over Mac?

The writing doesn't make it clear to me. Sure, there are some interesting
facts noted, but there's no connection drawn or relationship established
between the facts and the impact on the author's ability to work, or the work
product itself.

~~~
owenwil
Why not spin it around the other way? What advantages does Mac now have over
Windows, in a world where Microsoft is catering to developers from both sides?

~~~
Jdam
It doesn't constantly give me "Windows Explorer has stopped working"

~~~
owenwil
I don't think that's been a thing since 2006.

~~~
AsyncAwait
We get similar arguments on the Linux side, which haven't been true for a
decade.

------
klurriplurrr
Hilarious rant!

* talks about developing VR apps, shows screenshot of editing html

* complains about lack of innovation in macOS, has zero ideas of things he lacks

* praises slack for being a great windows app

* is impressed by bash for windows

* never considered using Linux

check, check & check!

------
diego_moita
It is so funny to read these Apple vs. Windows discussions when you live
outside of North America...

The truth is that, for the rest of the world, "Apple platform" means only iOS,
only the IPhone, nothing more.

In Asia, Africa, Latin America and some parts of Europe, Macs and OSX are a
rare species, most people spend years without even seeing a Mac computer "in
the wild". They are used only for graphics editing and IPhone development.

These discussions only show how exotic HN is, a Silicon Valey bubble.

~~~
nik736
Here in Germany I see Mac products every day. Even in the train there are more
MacBooks than Windows Laptops.

~~~
doczoidberg
that is not true. people use clearly more windows laptops in germany

~~~
freehunter
People use more Windows laptops than Mac laptops _everywhere_. Apple's
marketshare is like 25%.

~~~
vilmosi
Way lower than 25% actually.

------
throwaway13337
MacOS is at a standstill in terms of usability, but I feel that windows 10 has
gone back.

Microsoft has chosen to focus on enterprise. This is probably the right move
for their culture and the future of the company, but the remainder of their
consumer products seem to be turning into an ad-supported model heavily
focused on legacy support.

Windows may have a new coat of paint, but the underlying OS just gets more
buried under more and more simplified UIs which ironically make its harder to
use.

This is really desktop linux's time to shine, but it's usability is still
sporadic.

~~~
ntsplnkv3
Agreed.

I can't believe how much worse Windows 10 is than 7. And all the good features
of 10 could easily be integrated with the 7 UI.

It's very frustrating that there isn't another player in this space. I don't
mind fooling around with linux but sometimes you just want to buy a laptop and
go without all the extra crap and most of the consumer space won't go through
that anyway.

------
ivraatiems
Agreed on Apple dropping the ball. But Windows 10, while certainly better than
modern OS X or Windows 8 does _not_ have the stability or adherence to well-
tested design that Windows 7 had. W10 has seen serious quality assurance
issues[1], partly as a result of Microsoft cutting large amounts of QA testers
as it switched development methodologies.

This has lead to an immense number of mistakes, bugs, and unhandled cases
seeping all throughout Windows 10.

At its core, W10 is still a great OS, but the lack of proper testing (and its
massive, scary levels of privacy invasion) is something to be aware of.

[1] [http://www.computerworld.com/article/2859902/at-microsoft-
qu...](http://www.computerworld.com/article/2859902/at-microsoft-quality-
seems-to-be-job-none.html#linkedin)

~~~
Cowicide
What makes Windows 10 better than macOS Sierra, in your opinion? I use both
every day for similar projects and find that Windows 10 is lacking compared to
Sierra overall.

~~~
ivraatiems
Despite my bellyaching, Windows is built on much more solid ground than macOS
is these days. All the new stuff introduced in 8/10 - Metro stuff, control
panel stuff, etc. - can be wacky, but the core OS is strong. It works, it
doesn't crash, it acts the way you expect it to. That's all I really want from
a desktop OS, and given that Apple has total control over their ecosystem,
they are frighteningly bad at providing it.

What areas do you find W10 to be lacking in?

~~~
klurriplurrr
I find W10 lacking in consistency.

Poke around in the settings for a while and you will find remnants from the NT
days.

The dark theme is another example, it works for a handful of their own apps,
not even half of them.

Half baked and unpolished. I'm a daily W10, macOS sierra and Fedora Linux
user. I develop on all the OS:es and play games mostly on W10.

~~~
alanfranzoni
I agree 100% with that. Microsoft stacked new features without deprecating old
ones. Nowadays you can do things in 32 different ways; some ways are the same
as they were in Windows 2000 and XP, but maybe some "advanced tweaks" are not
available in the "old interface", so you need to struggle to find two
different interfaces that achieve the same essential function.

This is, IMHO, a backlash of Microsoft's long update cycle. The yearly update
Apple pushed to MacOS, along with free updates, allows for an easier
deprecate-then-remove approach that gently transitions users from the old to
the new approach. It's hard to do the same when people got used to an OS for
many, many years. Maybe W10 with its "rolling" approach will suceed, btw.

------
dvirsky
I've just switched to Mac a couple of weeks ago after over a decade of Linux
as my desktop - Ubuntu and Gnome for the past 6 years or so.

I have a much better machine now (although there are nice Linux certified
laptops out there) and a much nicer hardware integration with the OS
(especially in terms of battery life).

But as a desktop Gnome is just as good if not better (that's a matter of taste
after all), and as a Unix development machine it's sub-par compared to Linux.

I'm pretty happy with it, but I can see myself going back to Linux. But
Windows - not anytime soon.

------
emersonrsantos
It's very clear that this is all about gaming and game development. Please
302'd yourself to glorious /r/pcmasterrace.

> On the developer side? Nothing, unless you use XCode

> Their hardware is underpowered

> Gaming on Mac, which initially showed promising signs of life had started
> dying in 2015

> brings dedicated gaming features, full OS-level VR support, color
> customization

> NVIDIA GTX 1080 graphics card is an insane work-horse that can play any game

> On top of that? I can play recent games without the PC breaking a sweat, and
> I’ve started experimenting with VR

------
tlow
I think the is a bit hyperbolic. Apple certainly hasn't given up. It may be
having some identity issues, but what I really think is happening is politics.
Steve Jobs made Apple, he fought for the company so hard he was fired, then he
got acqui-hired back. Let's face it, the guy was invincible (do you really
think anyone in their right mind would try to tell Jobs what Apple was and
what it was about?) and incredibly talented and focused. He balanced the
powers. Now, power grabs and politics is confounding simplicity.

Things that I loved and now I hate:

\- spaces (now this convoluted combination of "notifications", no more far
left widget screen

\- universal zoom, you used to be able to zoom in on anything

\- odd wifi issues (wifi was such a pain in the early 2000s on a PC that OSX
experience of working was amazing)

\- terrible cloud features, icloud, mobileme always sucked but when my
computer started automatically updating and then switched to trying to store
my local files on icloud it f'ed over my file structure, huge annoyance

\- cmd-ctr-alt-8 (defaulted off but enable'able at least)

I'll still probably get a base model air for my next laptop and I run a custom
build PC that runs Ubuntu 16 LTS, Win 7, Win 8 (Windows mostly for CAD and
other such software still not available on mac, like proprietary 3D printer
environments, looking at you Stratasys).

~~~
usasuo
Some of those things that you loved are actually still there. They have just
been moved or disabled by default.

\- Dashboard is still there and can be enabled as a space or an overlay
(System Preferences > Mission Control).

\- You still can zoom in on anything. I use ctrl+scroll (System Preferences >
Accessibility > Zoom).

\- The invert colors shortcut (cmd-opt-ctrl-8) is still there. (System
Preferences > Keyboard > Accessibility).

Another feature I love that used to be easy to find but got buried in settings
is the three-finger drag (now found in System Preferences > Accessibility >
Mouse & Trackpad > Trackpad Options...).

I question some of the changes in default settings too, but then I realize the
defaults are most important for the non-power-users who can't or won't change
them. I would also never want to store my Documents or Desktop contents in
iCloud, but I can see why someone who doesn't understand the file system
might.

------
ChuckMcM
Interesting story, and one I understand because I've been using Windows 10 a
lot more since the WSL announcement/availability.

Basically in 2006 when I joined Google I had a choice, Macbook or Linux
laptop, I chose a macbook. Really liked it and used a Macbook for more
portable computing for the next 10 years. I also got a Linux desktop at Google
and learned the various bits you had to know in order to run a Linux desktop
full time with my laptop filling in for things I couldn't get on my desktop.
When the Surface Book was announced, _the hardware_ was just amazing. I
figured even if Windows sucked I could eventually get Linux working on it.
When WSL became available suddenly Linux was sort of just their and all my ARM
development tools just worked. My home desktop which had been windows 7/Linux
dual boot (defaulting to Linux) and I booted Windows 7 and took the free
upgrade when it was offered. Then went back to Linux. And then needed to run
my ECAD program so brought the windows side up to snuff. And have been running
on the Win10 partition for the majority of the last 3 months.

At this point I use my Macbook Pro less and less.

~~~
ryan-allen
I just discovered WSL today, and holy crap it's exactly what I've wanted since
for ever!

I've been running an Ubuntu server VM for ages to get bits and pieces done,
it's so nice to _just be there_.

Pretty cool stuff!

------
suprgeek
The Mac is a victim of the iPhone's success - pure and simple. From a short &
medium term perspective the business/ops guys will tell you that any
engineering resources spent on Mac would yield better results in iPhone land.

It requires fundamental "long-game" mindset to realise that once you lose the
high-end Mac guys - you lose your best proponents - then you go into a
decline, a long and very profitable decline.

There is no excuse for the current line-up of Macs - super expensive,
incremental and confusing half-baked features.

~~~
curun1r
> The Mac is a victim of the iPhone's success - pure and simple. From a short
> & medium term perspective the business/ops guys will tell you that any
> engineering resources spent on Mac would yield better results in iPhone
> land.

Which is why I'm voicing my objections to the way that Apple is treating their
Mac lineup by leaving iOS. I sold my iPhone and iPads (I had 2) and moved to
Android.

I'm still a Mac user who will happily spend thousands when they offer
compelling reasons to upgrade. But if their belief is that there is more money
in iOS, I'm making damn sure that I'm not part of that equation.

Switching to Android also has the pleasant side effect of being far cheaper. I
was able to get a brand new Nexus 5X for net-$20 after trading in my old
iPhone 6, which barely held a charge anymore. And Google Fi is so much cheaper
for my use case (I use about a half gig per month and do a lot of travel in
other countries) that I'm saving around $20/mo and getting better service.

For those of you wanting Apple to focus more product development resources on
macOS and Macs, abandoning that platform will only confirm Apple's decision to
focus on iOS. We need to abandon _that_ platform if we want more focus on
macOS.

------
dylankbuckley
My first computer was an iBook G3. I loved it. I have never owned a PC, and
reading this post makes me sad ... because it's true. The reality that in the
next few years I imagine the Mac to be killed entirely is an awful prospect
but one we should probably prepare ourselves for.

~~~
pka
Even Apple's current leadership can't be stupid enough to do that. If they
kill the Mac/MacBook, who is gonna write the apps for their mobile platforms?

Or maybe they can, judging by the last MBP release. Hopefully they turn it
around.

~~~
orangecat
_If they kill the Mac /MacBook, who is gonna write the apps for their mobile
platforms?_

I'd be surprised if Apple doesn't have XCode running on both iOS and Windows
internally.

------
lloydde
My family is fully invested in the Mac and iPhone ecosystems for productivity.
I recently purchased a 2012 Mac Pro. It was easy to justify as my wife is a
photographer and uses the Mac versions of Photoshop and Lightroom.

I forgot how awesome it is to have a desktop/server online all the time at
home and how much performance I had given up for the convenience of a laptop.

The lack of a used market for the 2nd generation (2013+) Mac Pro leaves me
frustrated, but it's no surprise given that it was targeted for the designer
niche and the rest of the desktop market has largely been subsumed by laptops.

I'm really encouraged by the growth of the Hackintosh community and all of the
problems they have solved. That will likely be my next computer.

------
wtbob
If someone wants a good development platform and is leaving the Mac, why not
switch to Linux rather than Windows? Windows is IMHO not pleasant to use: the
ads, the UI, the lack of speed. Linux is ad-free, pleasant & beautiful (with
StumpWM anyway; Unity, GNOME & KDE aren't so great), and blazingly fast. Plus
it's free software.

~~~
castle-bravo
When I read "ads" I had to do a double-take. I find it really surprising that
people are willing to tolerate an OS with built-in "malware". Is it because
people simply aren't aware that there are alternatives?

~~~
mod
No, it's because when there are three main alternatives, and the one with ads
has massive market share, you are necessarily going to have some people using
it.

Including people who don't actually tolerate the ads, but who need to target
that platform.

------
ufmace
I wouldn't say it's panic time yet, but I do get the feeling that Apple isn't
terribly interested in desktop Mac hardware and software. Microsoft could have
been said to have been there a few years ago, but they seem to be doing rather
better on desktop now.

This article actually prodded me to try out the Windows Subsystem for Linux,
and so far it seems pretty nice. Everything I've tried to install has worked
so far, and worked fine with my standard Unix config files.

------
bittercynic
Instead of choosing one platform and making a big deal of it, why not just use
whatever suits you at that moment and avoid features that tie you to only one
platform, making it inconvenient to switch? For me, at least, it seems best to
be aloof when it comes to operating systems. Loyalty to only one may have some
minor benefits, but is likely to make you feel like you ought to have a say in
the direction that platform is going.

------
disordinary
I really don't understand the whole Windows vs Mac thing, both operating
systems largely do what we want it 100% comes down to if the software that you
need is on one platform or the other.

I'm in the market to upgrade at some point in the near future as my mac has
developed a number of hardware issues and the linux subsystem for Windows and
Docker support are both intriguing.

------
quinndupont
I'm in the same boat (with everyone, it seems). One remaining big
differentiator, for me, is the resell value and service support of Macs. I can
use a Mac for three full years, under warranty, and then turn around and sell
it used the day AppleCare expires. And, I can regularly get 50-60% of original
sale price (realizing that I've also sunk $300 for AppleCare and taxes). After
three years, you'd be hard pressed to give away a Windows machine. This means,
all things considered, the Mac premium isn't really a premium, but actually
great value.

~~~
smt88
> _After three years, you 'd be hard pressed to give away a Windows machine_

Because they actually update the hardware...

~~~
curun1r
No, it's because there are new, low-end PCs that can be bought. There's no
low-end Mac, so it means that people who don't want a Mac but don't want to
spend as much buy used Macs.

If Apple sold a $400 Mac, you wouldn't be able to give away a 3-year-old Mac
either.

------
camdenlock
This seems more like an opportunistic attention grab than a legitimate
analysis. Has it really become this fashionable to loudly declare one's
intention to jump from the Apple ship? Boring.

~~~
heisenbit
Indeed. Other headlines from him are:

\- Why I left Mac for Windows: Apple has given up

\- I got a Google Home and finally understand the future of computing

\- Apple just told the world it has no idea who the Mac is for

\- The reason I keep going back to Apple might surprise you

\- Google's software is putting Apple to shame

\- Google buying Twitter would be the best result for everyone

\- iOS 10: the beginning of the end for apps as you know them

This is the profile of the newsletter editor
([http://char.gd/announcements/welcome-to-the-new-
charged/](http://char.gd/announcements/welcome-to-the-new-charged/)):

Owen was previously Editor at The Next Web and now runs digital at VanMoof in
Amsterdam. He created Charged newsletter, and is probably far too obsessed
with keeping up with everything in tech.

~~~
brockvond
wow, I lol'd... good investigating lol

------
shmerl
Why Windows? A more natural choice for MacOS user is Linux. And especially
since the author finds Linux subsystem on Windows useful, why bother with
Windows to begin with?

------
reavon
Same here. I gave up 2 years ago and went Fedora on my laptop and Android on
my phones.

Currently I have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon running Fedora 25 (Gnome 3) and do not
miss OS X at all. Gnome 3 is _very_ clean.

I have a Google Pixel XL. All I can say about it is _wow_

------
sparkling
As someone who has only recently made the switch to a mac and does not
remember the "good old times" \- switched in Late 2015 with no prior Mac
experience whatsoever, was running Ubuntu/Windows dualboot up until then:
MacOS is not perfect but it is by far the best daily driver for me. I am now
running Sierra on a Hackintosh and would not trade it for anything else.

~~~
andai
How has the Hackintosh experience been for you? I like the idea of cheap
powerful hardware, but fiddling with drivers and configs sounds like the exact
opposite of what led me to get a mac in the first place

~~~
sparkling
If you buy the Hardware listed in the various Hackintosh guides (hint:
[http://customac.com](http://customac.com) is great!) you will have very
little to no problems with drivers. At least for Desktops that is; Laptops are
a different story.

I purchased a Intel Skylake-based System and 99% of stuff worked out of the
box with the MultiBeast tool. Had to fiddle a while to get HDMI Audio working,
other than that i had no problems.

------
randiantech
Yeah, as a MBP 15 owner, Im sure my next in home computer will be a Windows
10. In my MBP, Bootcamp with w10 works much faster than OSX.

~~~
Cowicide
What's faster, specifically? I'm running both and they're both equally snappy
even though the macOS has superior functionality with Mission Control, etc.
compared to Windows half-baked, recent copy of the functionality.

~~~
randiantech
Open multiple browsers; multiple IDEs (heavy ones like IntelliJ IDEA and
Eclipse); in general the directory explorer I feel it more responsive. Is not
that OSX is slow at all, but W10 truly surprised me.

------
Esau
I am currently on a Mac but I have been switching between Mac, Windows, UNIX,
and BeOS since 1991. I generally find things to like in all of them.

But what Microsoft has done with mandatory updates and forced telemetry is
unacceptable to me. And because of that, Windows 10 is the first version of
Windows that I have not installed since the release of version 3.0.

~~~
andai
I installed W10 just to try it, to confirm that it was as terrible as everyone
said. It was, and I decided to switch back just a few days after it had
silently deleted the files required to undo the uninstall :(

What's BeOS like?

~~~
Esau
I was under the impression that Windows 10 is quite decent except for the
specific issues I mentioned.

As for BeOS I really liked it. It was very stable and fast if the hardware you
had was supported[1]. It had great multi-CPU support, came with a BASH shell,
and also BeFS - which with its support for arbitrary user defined metadata,
which made things like email and music queries very interesting.

The downside of BeOS was that it didn't attract any big third party apps and
that it was a single user operating system.

[1] I ran BeOS on a Gateway Performance 450 with the following (from memory)
specs: 450mhz Pentium 3, 384MB of RAM, a nVidia TNT graphics card, and a
Promise Ultra 66 IDE card. I eventually moved away from it when I upgraded to
a Pentium 4 computer with RD-RAM.

------
scarface74
I've been an Apple fan for 30 years - from my first Apple //e, LCII with an
Apple //e card, a PowerMac 6100/60 and after 8 or 9 years back to Mac with a
G4 Mac Mini and a Cire Duo Mac Mini.

But since 2006, every time I look at buying a Mac laptop, I can't hit the buy
button because they are more expensive than I want to pay and end up buying a
Dell.

But even during that time, I've still bought multiple iPods, iPhones, and
tablets.

All that being said, I can see a Mac in my future once I decide to buckle down
and be a true hard core, front end developer and start using all of the stuff
the cool kids use and/or an iOS developer.

But what would I buy? The Mac Mini would be good enough but I would feel bad
buying outdated tech even if in day to day use I couldn't tell the difference,
I don't want an all in one iMac, the laptops still either cost more than I
want to spend or are underpowered (the MacBook).

------
tibbon
After 15 years of using a Mac exclusively for my audio
recording/editing/mixing tasks, I'm going to probably build a small Windows
system for Ableton Live and Protools for at home. Concerts will still use a
Mac, but for having an actually powerful and expandable desktop? There simply
isn't an option anymore.

~~~
eropple
I can empathize. I'm pretty locked into Logic, to the point where I've
considered doing a Hackintosh again.

Most of mine is audio mixing for live and live-to-tape video, so I _could_
move to Ableton, but it'll be a lot of reworking stuff that already works.

------
lend000
We're fast approaching a time when Linux based systems will be serious
alternatives for everyday usage (with things close enough to Word, Powerpoint,
iMovie, etc.)

------
klurriplurrr
I'd like to remind you all that there's nothing to gain in sticking to a
single OS. Invest in learning some apps that are multi-OS, for example
Firefox/Chrome, LibreOffice, Visual Studio Code or even Steam.

Be flexible, use the right tool for the job. Don't be a hater.

------
toodlebunions
I have increasingly little hope that apple will make pro focused hardware ever
again. The company does not seem to care about the mac anymore at all.

~~~
tajen
I really wonder what's happening inside the company, because Apple's lawyers
make the company so secretive that we don't know much about it. Do employees
read HN? Do they collect reports about what the consumers are asking for and
send it up the management chain? Do they knowingly choose to ignore it? or do
they actually believe the Emoticon Macbook is the future? or do employees feel
dismayed that their management puts the Macbook/macOS departments in wreck, to
later claim something like "Sorry guys, the market doesn't want laptops
anymore, but, swear, we've tried real hard"? Does the Mac department
experience super-high turnover, with coding ruins of senior devs being taken
over by students on internships?

How does it feel to belong to the Blackberry of Apple? Do they get laughed at
during lunch breaks?

~~~
chongli
_I really wonder what 's happening inside the company_

If I had to take a wild guess, they've been going stir crazy waiting for the
new HQ to be built. From what I know, they've got a lot of employees crammed
in lots of temporary offices. They may also have temporarily slowed hiring.

All of that could add up to multiple problems all over the company. Like a
skeleton crew struggling to get the ship back to port for refitting.

~~~
tajen
That means there is a great hope for a improvement in the future. Thank you
for making me positive!

------
bcrescimanno
I hate it; but, this article sums up a lot of what I've been feeling lately.
I've been looking at a lot of the same parts that he ended up with for
building my own PC. My heart tells me to run Linux; but, my head says that
Windows 10 is a far more serviceable OS than any of its predecessors and I
don't have the time or patience to mess with WINE to play my games.

I noticed that the author seems to have stuck with a MacBook as his on the go
machine. I've considered that route as well; but, I'm wondering if any company
has yet started making portable hardware that compares well with Apple
products. The last I checked a couple of years ago, no one felt close.

~~~
AsyncAwait
There's the XPS line or Razer now.

------
darreld
Same boat. I'm currently shopping for a Windows laptop to replace my aging
MBP. It's an odd feeling that Apple doesn't even offer a MBP in their current
lineup that I'm interested. Between the pricing and the fact that I do NOT
want the touch bar, there is nothing for me there.

In the past year I have been spending the majority of my time in Windows 10 on
my PC, as well as booting into Linux. I went all-in on Mac in 2001 for me and
my family, buying quite a few Macs since then but I'm pretty sure I've bought
the last Apple computer. They are not the win they once were.

------
thomastjeffery
Interesting read. OS X and magsafe are the only things I believe Apple did
right. With their overpriced proprietary hardware, awful EFI implementation,
and lacking opengl and Vulkan support, why would I want a MacBook?

------
brockvond
I moved to Windows the second I saw the Linux Subsys... for 3K i built a sick
machine, water cooled, expandable to 128 GB of RAM, can add 2 more GPUs if I
want and I rock a dual m.2 for the OS... NOTHING apple makes can touch it...
and the Trash Can macPro is... laughable now. I still rock an iPhone and the
Itunes music match service tho... but Dropbox replaced icloud drive a long
time ago. I still like my macbook but that's just because of battery life
nowadays.... and I can push a desktop to AppleTV... but that's not for work
lol.

------
garganzol
I'm on Mac now, but I'm pretty sure my next PC will be Windows-based.

I run both Mac OS (natively) and virtualized Windows (via VMware). The Mac OS
side is more polished in terms of drivers/hardware integration. I'm a huge fan
of that. Mac OS also handles website browsing and media entertainment. I like
the way Bluetooth speakers just work when I power them on, BUT the overall
media experience went downhill with recent Mac OS releases. Sudden disconnects
from AirPlay without my consent, flacky mess between system / iTunes target
audio devices. It gets worse with every release. Dubious improvements in macOS
audio subsystem introduce more evil than good to the end consumer. That's why
I'm pretty sure macOS won't last in the long run. The countdown had started
when Steve P Jobs passed away.

The Windows part of my system is used during day to day business and I mostly
do all my developments there (with a tiny bit of help from macOS / Homebrew /
Unix utilities like curl).

To sum this up, to me Apple is like Titan who is destined to decay. At the
same time, Windows and PC are the results of best efforts from thousands of
companies. That's why PC has much more inertia and better long-term stability.
In other words, PC has natural status quo while macOS is living in a bubble of
a single company, so the end is nigh.

It looks like my next computer will be PC. It's so hard to leave the polished
Mac's hardware but I won't have a choice presumably.

------
anst
The interesting thing is not only the article itself, but also the vote count
here on HN. I can't stop thinking that professionals, once strategic target
for Apple Computers, appear to be dumped by Apple Inc in favor of high-end
consumers. It might be stock-wise OK, but it's a significant evolution. And if
I care a little less about a breathtaking design and more about memory bus
speed and GPU, soon I'll have to buy or build a PC. That's a pity.

~~~
collyw
Yes, it seems like quite a silly move from Apple. I imagine a lot of their
recommendations come from technically competent people (developers) suggesting
a Mac to non technical friends.

------
markatkinson
(This has nothing to do with the software side of things) I don't have much
experience with Apple products outside of owning an iPhone a few years back,
but for me owning a computer that I can't customise and tinker with sounds
boring and restrictive. I love putting time into pin pointing the performance
bottlenecks on my machine, then researching the best hardware solutions and
implementing it, as well as building something that wows a few people is also
cool.

The incremental process allows one to improve their machine without massive
(well, most the time) capital outlays and you end up building something that
you love, you created and that can be phenomenally fast and customised to your
specific needs (and a pleasure to look at, the more LEDs the better right?).

Anyway, I realise this might be quite specific to me and the other
"enthusiasts", and I am sure a lot of people just glance at tempered glass PCs
with water cooling and think "I could never do that", or "I couldn't be
bothered to put so much effort into that, I need something that just works.".
Once you start, it becomes apparent how simple and modular it all is.

I am not sure where I am going with this, but Owen Williams built a awesome
computer so thought I would comment.

------
iamabraham
Same. Replaced my MacBook with a Surface Book. Why? Tns of reasons, not the
last of which being that the M processor I have is so underpowered that it's
an embarrassment that the company offered it in a laptop. I can use two of
Chrome, Excel, Outlok and Spotify. Open one more and I get the beach ball.

I also find that Microsoft is at least trying to make quality products even if
they will never be mainstream (like the Surface Book). Very happy y have made
the switch.

------
malchow
I never had a Mac from age 5 to age 18, despite being very interested in
computers. Only PCs. Built them myself. In 2007, at the age of 20, I bought my
first Mac. I've bought Macs biannually since then. I have staffed whole
companies with Macs.

And I too just purchased my first Windows PC in ten years.

My new 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar hangs on resume. Whether a USB-C
connected external monitor will work or not is a total crapshoot. The TouchBar
display becomes decomposed intermittently. The battery runs down to zero once
a month, forcing a total electrical disconnect and a hot computer. I am afraid
to install flash for Safari, fearing it will cause a black hole to form in my
office, so I have to run Safari or Chrome depending on the situation. Each
gives me a very disappointing 3.5 hours of battery runtime. Opening the
computer is a gamble: will the keyboard backlighting work or not? It's
impossible to know in advance.

On top of all of that, Apple's refusal to push on component quality means that
this computer is just plain slow, despite being maxed on RAM and CPU. Also it
was $3000.

If you want a computer that is snappy and just works these days, you probably
want a Windows computer.

~~~
H4CK3RM4N
Those reports were coming out at launch, but then all the fanboys took their
computers in to get them replaced and they started working.

~~~
malchow
Thanks. I guess I'll take mine in, then.

------
746F7475
Imo the Windows linux compatibility layer is a nice gesture, but there already
existed stuff like Cygwin that did most of the stuff.

I haven't really paid any attention to the feature set since I've only used
Windows for games for past 5 years and ~6 months ago I gave up on Windows
completely, but let's say it give you everything Linux gives you. You can just
use rvm.io to install your ruby and then use gems to install everything else
you need (author used Jekyll as an example). What is the real gain to be
have'd?

I can not see a single reason to switch over to Windows from perfectly working
OS just because Windows is catching up. Only argument you can reasonably make
is that Apple has neglected Macs and you can build faster/more powerful PC and
run Windows on it, but what front-end stuff needs that much power? Imo unless
you are working with 3D or something like a game meant to played on Windows
there is no benefit switching to a more powerful machine.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, maybe the author was upgrading from early
00s model of Mac/MacBook, but if you have anything even recent-ish from Apple,
I see no benefit in switching.

~~~
jnwatson
Especially for developer-types, having lots of VMs running is a thing. That
takes up quite a bit of RAM, disk, and CPU. 16 GiB RAM just doesn't cut it
these days.

~~~
746F7475
>Especially for developer-types, having lots of VMs running is a thing

Really? Why do you need lots of VMs? Back when I did front end stuff I used
Vagrant, so that's one, but maybe I weren't a real developer.

Now days I work with embedded stuff and only reason some people run VMs is
that some clients use VPNs that require Windows, so they are running Linux on
top of Windows, but again that's just one VM.

------
antfarm
I have been using OS X for software development for the last 15 years. Before
that I was on Linux for 4 years and Mac OS 7 before that. I have never owned a
Windows computer.

One of the things I like most about OS X/macOS is how its development has been
a gradual evolution, from the time Apple bought NeXT and OpenStep in 1997 and
started working on Rhapsody, until macOS Sierra. It may have a lot to do with
my using it every day and having gotten so used to the OS after more than a
decade, but my Mac in 2017 totally gets out of the way and lets me concentrate
on my development work. The familiar UNIX underpinnings and developments like
e.g. Homebrew help a lot with that. Also, printers, multiple external screens
etc. just work.

When I look at Windows, what I really cannot understand is how an operating
system that is used by the majority of people and businesses gets away with
having each major version looking and behaving totally different from its
predecessor, as if there was a constant need to fix the UI design errors that
have been made in the previous version. And still (or thus?) it's not getting
to the point where it feels natural to use.

------
rixrax
I too switched to Windows 10 from OSX about a year a go. Yet, in my humble
opinion Apple still makes the best laptop hardware - all other things equal
their trackpads remain unmatched. Thus I remain to be an avid MBP user where I
first used bootcamp to boot to Windows. And few months back I went a step
further and eradicated OSX partition altogether and now my shiny MBP only has
Windows 10 partition left.

------
johndoe4589
It's quite obvious that Apple is slowly converging iOS and OS X even as they
say they are different beasts at the moment. Maybe that's why some power
users's expectations are frustrated atm?

But that is also precisely why Apple is still WAY ahead of Microsoft and co.
They will be able to make the desktop and tablets converge where you can carry
your computer in your bag, and when you're home you put it in a dock and you
have a full blown powerful desktop with the 5K Retina screen and maybe even a
dedicated GPU in the dock fit for triple A gaming. I'm pretty sure that is
where they are headed, since obviously you can't make a single "form factor"
for both uses. And for people who don't need the full blown desktops you won't
even need the dock, external screen, just the keyboard and you'll be able to
do most computer tasks.

And that will be possible because they are already thinking ahead, while
Microsoft will be stuck with their turd of a desktop and making funny hardware
that kinda works for some uses, but can't quite decide what it does.

~~~
mgamache
Pretty strong opinion, but if you took an honest look at the Surface Pro 4 vs
an iPad Pro, you might find that Apple is making a device that can't fulfill
its promises. I am sure Apple has some great master plan that we haven't seen,
but the reality is far from great right now. Logic Pro and iOS dev and the
only reasons I still (sometimes) use OSX.

~~~
johndoe4589
What nobody does is look at a PC, and say, where can we simplify? If you start
by assuming that a lambda user needs to be exposed to a complex file hierarchy
for example, then you're not really thinking ahead. Then you come up with a
hybrid device.

I'm sure Surface Pro is a great device, and it answers the needs of a certain
demographic but "windows on the tablet" is not the answer to the computer of
tomorrow. For what it's worth I heard from artists the Surface isn't a
replacement for the Wacom as it has its problems.

I assume you're referring to the fact that iPad Pro doesn't accept USB keys,
or lets you access filesystem etc. But what Apple achieved with the iPad Pro
is to make a tablet first and foremost, with a fantastic touch interface. Not
a hybrid device.

------
pweissbrod
Maybe you should consider is slowly changing operating system is actually a
preferable thing. I still use Windows 7 and SSH for all of my work

------
andreif
My mother-in-law recently asked me for help with fixing her higher-level Asus
laptop. It run Windows 7 and had enormous amount of malware. So I've spent a
few days (incl. yesterday and today) cleaning it and upgrading to Windows 10.
To say it was an awful experience is to say nothing. Rare thing works
correctly. I must google each step, tying not to care about the horrific UI
which is simply beyond understanding. It's still running anti-virus software
trying to get rid of the last trojans, some of which seem not possible to
remove. Screen resolution is off and stretched out, 1600x900 not supported, no
drivers available. Whole day I keep thinking why people still torture
themselves by using Windows. It's very apparent why support cost for Macs is
lower than for Windows PC. Sorry for all the rage, but come on, macOS will
still be much better OS than Windows even if Apple stops developing it for
several years.

~~~
jankotek
You did this wrong way. Complete wipe and reinstall is the only option for
such infested computer.

~~~
andreif
Yes, I actually thought to wipe and install Ubuntu since she needs it mostly
for browsing, but she wanted to keep the maybe-important files. And it's been
a while since I reinstalled Windows from external drive.

------
uladzislau
That's the most puzzling about current Apple - why intentionally ignore and
neglect the most vocal and lucrative segment of the market? Maybe not in the
terms of bean counting but in terms of the "promoters" and ecosystem - what
Apple actually spent incredible amount of efforts to build and maintain in the
past.

------
JumpCrisscross
macOS and iOS's killer feature, for me, is their focus on my privacy and
security.

------
Mikhail_Edoshin
I loved Macs when it wasn't mainstream (think Mac OS Classic, up to v9), but
now primarily use PC. Anyway, I remember reading a book written by Felix
Dennis, "How to Get Rich" (the trick here is that Felix actually got rich) and
there was a lengthy passage about Apple, Steve Jobs, and why Apple will fail
the second time (the book was published in 2006, after iPod, but before
iPhone, but I doubt iPhone would change the reasoning). The main idea was that
Apple believe they have a great idea and do not need to cooperate with the
rest of the world:

"But an idea is not enough. It is never enough. And even its successful
execution as a piece of technology is not enough if the company refuses to
join with the rest of the world and its own customers in cooperative
exploitation."

------
matthewaveryusa
I've been going through a bit of an identity crisis recently. for the best 7
years I've been an xubuntu c++ guy exclusively. Recently I've taken up
learning goland and, to make things more interesting, I decided to give the
windows dev environment a spin. I've never touched a mac product in my life[1]
so I can't compare it with that, but let me tell you, windows means business.
you'll obviously need a few things (visualstudio, code and gnuwin32), but the
work they put in their flagship products make the experience enjoyable is
nothing short of amazing. Yes Microsoft, keep courting me, I'm listening.

[1] except for the original shuffle which is the perfect jogging companion.

------
nik736
Looking through my dock, I would miss the following: Spark, Safari, Terminal
(no, Hyper is no proper terminal compared to the native one), Paw, Sketch,
Postico, Transmit, Bear, Pages, Numbers, Keynote and Textual.

I think I would even miss small things like the Finder listing options, it's
just that macOS was may many years ahead and Microsoft is playing catch up
just now but has too much to catch up too, so I will wait at least several
more years to even consider Windows viable.

Even if macOS stagnates for the following years, it's still the better OS for
me. I am on a Hackintosh btw, so the hardware advantages are non existent.

~~~
brightball
There are good cross platform options for most of what you mention. I just
finished switching from Mac to Fedora 25 and aside from having to covert from
1Password to LastPass or from Paw to Postman...it's been pretty painless. I
expected I'd be reaching for the Mac regularly and it's just been sitting in
my backpack.

~~~
AsyncAwait
I'd also recommend taking a look at httpie, if you don't mind cli.

1 - [https://github.com/jkbrzt/httpie](https://github.com/jkbrzt/httpie)

------
ludwigvan
Quote 1:

> If you ask anyone who knows me, I’m probably the biggest Apple fan they
> know.

Quote 2:

> I was tempted away in early 2013 when Apple released its second-generation
> 15" Retina MacBook Pro. That machine was my first real taste of Apple’s
> world, and I loved it.

I rest my case.

------
grexe
Maybe I'm stating the obvious or the Mac guys will scoff at this, but I've
long enjoyed the balance that Linux strikes together with KDE, nowadays being
really easy to install and maintain and looking good at it.

------
apricot13
I think people are giving up on apple too easily. They've had one really bad
round (admittedly I'm ignoring the lets solder everything to the motherboard
phase) but there is still September. I'm forcing my 2011 mbp to live at least
until then so that I can then reassess my hardware.

Thats not to say I haven't been researching other options in the meantime. The
good thing about all of this is that the people (myself included) who have
never even considered leaving are getting a chance to see what else is
available in the market and make a more educated decision to stay/go.

------
vatotemking
I just realize this, but perhaps Apple is doing the same thing like MS is
doing for Windows 10, only in reverse?

MS was successful on desktop but failed on mobile, so MS is adapting their
desktop OS for mobile devices.

For Apple, its the other way around. Apple was successful on mobile, but
failed on taking over the desktop. So they are adapting their mobile OS for
the desktop.

Their end-game is the same: to create a larger ecosystem via universal apps
that work in both mobile and desktop.

The funny thing is perception. Apple's moves are viewed negatively but MS
moves are viewed positively (at least here on HN).

------
Ezhik
The thing I'll miss the most about OS X is Miller columns in Finder.

~~~
wildrhythms
Wow, I never really thought about this, but is Finder still the only major
file manager with a proper miller column view? I use it exclusively to a point
where I find that using other file managers (Windows Explorer, Thunar,
Nautilus, etc) feels clunky and inefficient in comparison.

~~~
Ezhik
Yeah, same. Really fell in love with Miller columns and don't have a good file
manager replacement on other OS.

Even worse, apparently both Thunar and Nautilus dropped their implementations.

------
erikb
It's interesting how that outcome could have been guessed by seeing the new
line of CEOs. Now MS has the bigger innovator as boss, so it's products also
are more interesting to users.

------
makecheck
Okay, let’s give this article the proper headline: you are _returning_ to
Windows after just a couple of years, “a life-long Windows user” (from
article). You basically were on the Mac for a single product generation.

Also, you’ve conveniently left out a hell of a lot about what’s _wrong_ with
Windows 10, starting with the utterly insane way that Microsoft shoehorned it
onto most people’s systems. Microsoft has done well, and they have made some
reasonable moves for developers but you have some fog-covered glasses here.

------
pkulak
How well does that Linux subsystem thing work? Can I just use it and pretend
it's a Unix? Can I ssh, grep, make, gradle, etc? Is there anything like
Homebrew for me to install stuff with?

~~~
htsh
It's not that bad. It runs node well and I can ssh out of it and do the things
you describe. Powershell is an improvement from command prompt but it's still
not as nice as terminal / iterm / gnome terminal.

And it's ubuntu, so you can apt-get install build-essential & whatever else
you need. It doesn't do upstart or /etc/init.d services (like if you wanted to
run mongo as a service) but it runs mongo instances fine for me while I
develop locally.

I spent my first full day developing on a win10 box this weekend & it went
fine. But since I've switched to webstorm for most of my development what o/s
I'm running hardly matters outside of keyboard shortcuts.

For anyone considering switching, I'd recommend buying the "pro" version as
you can use the services feature to turn off things like cortana or the
automatically-restarting windows defender. It would like to do a whole lot of
spying by default, more than I'm surprised people are comfortable with.

But as many in this discussion have said, please give linux (and especially
gnome 3 a shot). It's a pleasure to work with, and if I could stream legal tv
services and run photoshop there's no question it's what I'd run.

------
dghughes
I wander between Mac, PC and Linux on a regular cycle of displeasure.

~~~
keithpeter
I gave up cycling and just use an old laptop with Linux. Over the years, the
applications I use have converged on the Web browser for many aspects of my
daily computer use. I'll be able to get by with a Chromebook soon.

------
grandalf
While I am not fully on board with all of the negatives he mentions about
Apple (and would add one of my own, XCode), Microsoft is doing a great job of
becoming more relevant to developers who prefer _n_ x tooling.

Things like Homebrew have given Microsoft a very clear feature roadmap for
achieving parity with Apple in most open source development stuff.

At this rate it won't be long before nearly anyone using open source tooling
will likely be indifferent between OSX and Windows 10. This is great news for
everyone.

------
ChemicalWarfare
I'm sure this depends on the toolset one is using, for me personally -
switching back and forth between PC/Mac is not a big deal since the apps I'm
using - IntelliJ/Android Studio, Atom, Chrome, Mancy, vim, "terminal" (on
Windows I actually find myself using git bash more often than the "built-in"
ubuntu) etc etc - all of that looks just about identical. Xcode would be the
only mac-only thing I can think of that I've ever had to use.

------
mmgutz
Left Windows because MBP were the best laptops. Leaving Mac because of the
silly decisions made around next gen MBP. No mag safe (without purchasing
dongles). Removed ESC key. No, I'm not going to retrain my fingers because
Apple thinks I should. Why have a touch bar when you can have a full touch
screen? One of the what were they thinking ideas ever. Frankly, Windows
laptops have caught up and they're more Linux friendly to boot.

------
alfredxing
I run a "hackintosh" system with similar specs as in the blog post, and it
works very well (after quite a bit of initial setup).

I still far prefer macOS to Windows for development because it's an actual
Unix, the UI is still much better, and the quality of apps available _is_
quite a large difference.

My dream though, is a Linux with an actually decent GUI, desktop environment,
and good apps. But one can only dream...

------
hossbeast
Probably switching from macOs to Arch Linux soon myself

~~~
bobsam
Why is arch so popular among switchers?

It is not very user friendly and requires manual work to set up unlike, say,
ubuntu

~~~
eptcyka
Whilst it may not be easy to setup (but I'd argue it's more tedious than
hard), it gets out of your way once it's up and running. And, since it's
rolling and not release based, once it's setup, you barely ever have to change
anything about it. At least that is why I've chosen to use arch. Well, that
and recent GCC releases.

~~~
domenukk
Everytime you upgrade you should check their webpage before, since they
sometimes decide to move folders around or break things... Not really out of
the way there. (I've been using it for months before I decided it was not for
me. Or was it the other way round?)

------
everyone
Its interesting how high the comment count seems to be on this kind of
article. This is something the readership are passionate about.

------
brandon272
One product I look longingly at from over here in Mac world is the Surface
Pro. Full desktop OS on a tablet; the ability to make notes with a pen.
Surface Pro with OneNote seems like a seriously powerful tool.

I'm sure iPad also runs OneNote but you simply cannot efficiently use an iPad
as a full time desktop experience, from what I've seen.

------
doggydogs94
My next laptop will probably have to be a Windows laptop unless Apple ships a
"real" MacBook Pro. I will hold out as long as possible though. \- currently
using a 2012 i7 MBP with 16gb memory and a 1T SSD. \- 16gb of memory does not
cut it you are running multiple VMs - a decent graphics card for 4K would be a
bonus.

------
antfarm
Something most people ignore when it comes to comparing Mac and PC price-wise
is the cost for a license of the OS.

Currently, a license for Windows 10 Pro costs € 279 in the German Microsoft
Store, while macOS Sierra is free for everyone who can run it. (Some say, Mac
is the most expensive dongle.)

------
intrasight
As a jack-of-all-trades developer, I use both Windows and MacOS. But I "left"
MacOS (meaning isn't my "desktop") over twenty years ago when Windows NT
became solid. I'd use it more if I was able to run it as a VM like I do all my
other OSs.

------
djhworld
The author talks about wanting to do VR/gaming development, which is probably
better homed on Windows anyway

Also he mentions this in his post

> (I now use a 12" MacBook for on-the-go productivity)

Seems a bit strange to spend 10 paragraphs criticising Apple and then still
buying their products anyway.

~~~
cwyers
People who can write 10 paragraphs criticizing Apple products are likely to be
people who use Apple products.

------
somecallitblues
TL;DR Speculates that Apple has abandoned laptop and desktop lines, excited
about finally having a Nix terminal on Windows, doesn't like the weak hardware
in new MBP for the cost of the the laptop, excited about building a new
Windows PC.

------
3dk
Watch the author write an article in two months: "Why I left Windows for
Linux"

~~~
freehunter
Which he posts from his MacBook.

------
chx
WSL is great but I dread all sorts of malware / ransomware / virii etc. One
wrong click (have you ever been tired) and while obviously I have backups
that's a lot of stress and lost productivity to get back where I was.

~~~
bmon
You have to go a fair way to run anything on wsl, much more than "one click".
Also, there's not much that you can do in bash that can't already happen in
batch/powershell, with perhaps a little more effort.

~~~
chx
How's the gcc toolchain? One of the biggest comforts on Linux is the easy
ability to just configure-make anything one needs.

------
quinndupont
The author laments the lack of Sketch app on Windows: I'd recommend trying out
Adobe XD. On the Mac it is at least as good as Sketch these days, and while
the Windows app is way behind still, it is developing fast.

------
roryisok
> The new MacBook Pros, released in late 2016, where interesting, but
> something of a half-hearted shrug in the direction of users: they’re okay
> machines, but they sure aren’t interesting at all

I can't process this sentence

------
swlkr
I use Windows 10 and MacOS on a 2015 MBP at work. I haven't used the Linux
subsystem yet but for web development there is still no better platform than
MacOS.

I won't be switching to windows anytime soon (probably never).

------
buckhx
I recently picked up a Dell 9365 2in1 for a portable person computer. After
some rough edges I am pretty seamlessly switching between my Apple work laptop
and new PC through the likes of WSL & Vagrant.

------
wenbert
Question: How solid is the Linux Subsystem on Windows?

I have been looking into switching back to Windows for months now. The only
thing that's keeping me is the trackpad on my macbook. It's just so
convenient.

------
socrates1998
I see where he is coming from, but Windows is just so much worse. Apple's OS
and hardware may have slipped, but it is still much better than a PC for
almost everything except gaming.

------
ungzd
TLDR: because of USB-C, Caby Lake and Microsoft's Cygwin clone.

------
ebr4him
The only thing stopping me from moving over to windows is its crappy text
rendering / anti-aliasing. Its MUCH better on mac, subjective ofcourse.

Even with ClearType on, the text is too thin.

------
Abishek_Muthian
'Bash support made me consider Windows again' \- but ..but you know that
there's a native support for bash in an operating system called Linux right?

------
gozur88
Well, okay, Windows is getting bash support. But is it getting the rest of the
Linux toolkit? Are we getting real symbolic links and named pipes?

~~~
cwyers
WSL isn't "bash support," it's a full Ubuntu userland running on a Linux
kernel syscall emulator sitting right on top of the NT kernel (so NOT touching
the Win32 userland). There are bugs, but the idea is to continue to improve
things so that anything you can apt get on a regular Ubuntu install, you can
apt get on WSL.

------
isaac_is_goat
I have a Windows PC for day-to-day stuff and gaming, I use a MacBook pro for
work. I don't really like the thing - but it pays the bills.

------
kureikain
I think this only apply for backend dev. For people who has to use
Swift/Objective-C, seems we have to stuck with Apple.

------
a2tech
_eye roll_ These articles are good for lots of passionate posts but get more
boring each time they hit.

~~~
doggydogs94
It's unfortunate that they are necessary.

------
samirm
Surprised this article is so popular, as if this stuff is news... especially
on a tech site.

------
mark-r
I'm giving this a +1 just for that final picture of the cat staring down into
the PC.

------
idiotsniff
Apple could have kept the magsafe charging and added the ability to charge
through USB C aswell. apple is forcing customers to look elsewhere. OSX is
just about shite. it's becoming iOS, Apple has a lot of space cadets running
things these days. it's a real shame.

------
m3kw9
It still infuriates me when I use a windows PC computer. No complaints here as
a Mac user. Don't look too deep, your Mac works. Journalists is crying foul
over MacBook specs but to me it still just works great.

------
madez
> The new MacBook Pros (...) _where_ interesting (...).

~~~
plushpuffin
Don't focus on the typo. Focus on the sentence, which contradicts itself
halfway through. Apparently, the new Macbooks are interesting, except that
they're not at all interesting.

> The new MacBook Pros, released in late 2016, where interesting, but
> something of a half-hearted shrug in the direction of users: they’re okay
> machines, but they sure aren’t interesting at all.

------
ebbv
I am a developer on macOS who feels like I'm not getting the things I'd like
to see out of Apple (real new Pro machines most specifically.)

But saying that Windows 10 is so much better than Sierra doesn't hold water
for me. It's laden with spyware that is difficult to turn off, and even when
you manage to, the next update turns it back on and changes what you have to
do to disable it. Windows 10 is the most user abusing operating system in
history. It's just that it does it in ways that are less obvious than Vista or
Windows 8, on the surface (no pun intended) it seems all is good.

Microsoft is doing some good things with open source and making things like
Code. But I can't abide the aggressive spyware.

------
frik
If Apple has given up, then Microsoft has given up us well. Windows 10 is just
as bad, it's worse. The majority of Windows users still use Win7, as Win8/10
has little benefits and makes things worse. Many (incl me) are sticking we the
perfectly fine Windows 7.

------
vacri
In the article comments, I find it amusing that there's yet another argument
about boot times. Boot times really don't matter anymore for desktop use -
they're just not rebooted that often, and long gone are the days when your
(w98) OS would crash several times a day. Boot times under 30s or so really
don't matter these days for desktops. VMs that you're stopping and starting,
sure. Resume from sleep, sure.

But saying that one OS is better than another because it takes 5s to 'boot'
instead of 10s is bikeshedding. (windows cheats here anyway, because it shows
you the desktop before it's ready to be interacted with)

------
pinaceae
Not so long ago the best upgrade to your WinPC was to put an SSD in it. Huge
difference.

Win8 killed momentum, stagnation ensued.

But, then GPU kicked it up a notch. The new 1080 is insane, but in itself that
is not that cool.

The new killer upgrade is the display. After a whole decade of nothing
suddenly there was a huge bump.

I just upgraded to an Ultra-Widescreen Acer Predator. Mind. Blown. Combine it
with a 1080 (or the new 1080Ti) and your PC makes a whole generational leap
forward.

And right at this moment in time, Apple stops making display and chooses
shitty LG as the maker of choice.

Yes, Apple is losing the desktop, 100%.

~~~
tjr225
And here I just sold my i5/gtx670 build in favor of a Macbook Pro, a Raspberry
Pi, and a NAS. This one gen old MBPr is my favorite computer I've ever used(I
now have two- one provided by my employer as well).

So Apple has made some controversial design decision with their newest line of
laptops...I still will be purchasing one in two or three years...whenever this
one becomes unusable.

~~~
pinaceae
not debating notebooks.

but for desk PCs where Apple only has iMacs anymore?

the big ultrawidescreens need powerful GPUs and a displayport (not usb-c yet).

use an ultra for a day, high rez and high Hz, then try go back to a classic
LCD. like going to retina on phones.

------
gaius
Apple are now so focused on content consumption that they have forgotten that
content has to be produced somewhere, and if you give that up you give up
control over the consumption experience too, eventually. The only thing saving
them right now is that Android is so hopeless.

