
In Facebook’s Hometown, the First Responders Aren’t Local - nichodges
http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-facebooks-hometown-the-first-responders-arent-local-1458924085?mod=LS1&ref=/news/technology
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chvid
From the comments section:

Richard Rider 8 hours ago

Before you get all mushy about the Menlo Park firefighters with their pittance
of a salary, go to this link to see how much these typical CA "public
servants" are paid (and these are old figures that have since risen):

[http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/menlo-park-fire-
pr...](http://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/menlo-park-fire-protection-
district/?page=1)

Scroll through the 8 pages of employees. With benefits, the top guys make over
$300K a year. Scores of these firefighters receive well over $100K in cash
annually -- plus benefits, which includes a pension for 30 years' service that
is usually HIGHER than their regular salary.

And remember this: 72% of America's firefighters are VOLUNTEERS. In CA, we've
all but outlawed volunteer fire departments in all but a few rural enclaves.

\---

In global perspective these salaries are very high and it is probably also
contributing to high house prices.

I don't live in the US so I don't really have any opinions on this but I
suspect those getting the short end of the stick more likely are the people
working in Starbucks than these guys.

~~~
mikeash
At the end of the day, if there are a certain number of jobs in an area, and
fewer housing units, then something has to give. What you pay people doesn't
even matter. You're just playing musical chairs, and if you pay one group
enough to live nearby, you've automatically priced some other group out of the
market.

The obvious solution for the firefighters is to pay them well enough to live
in the community they protect. Maybe that's a very high salary, but it only
seems reasonable that a community that's very expensive to live in will have
very expensive firefighters.

But this just pushes the problem elsewhere, since some other set of local
workers will now have to live far away. The only real solution is to either
build more housing or shed some local jobs.

~~~
hardcandy
This tends to invite geographical arbitrage (not necessarily a bad outcome).
As indicated in the article, some firefighters enjoy the high salaries coupled
with a (likely) very low COL 2+ hours away. You end up with smart, clever
workers commuting in, sleeping in chairs and vans, etc, but not necessarily
moving there. Even if you made a rule that said the workers had to live within
20 miles, my sense is they would game the system. I'd do the same in their
situation. Lots of places experience this same dynamic because similar to SV
they are undesirable for certain groups. Saudi Arabia pays a fortune to import
the majority of its surgeons, from the US, UK, and elsewhere, and those
professionals tend to treat it as a temporary post in exchange for twice or
three times what they would make elsewhere.

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caseyf7
The structure of the job makes it very unlikely firefighters will want to live
on the peninsula. They spend the night at the station with multi-day shifts on
and long stretches off so long commutes don't grind them down the way they do
daily commuters. It just makes sense to live out where you can afford a much
more comfortable life.

~~~
bsimpson
A friend of mine did the opposite - living in SF and firefighting somewhere
near Sacramento. He bunked at the station during his shift, and would come
back to SF for his days off. I've also known people who have a similar
arrangement at the Forest Service (living in nearby cities during their days
off).

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msoad
Public workers are the last in the list of "low income people who commute to
Sillicon Valley for work". There are many many more people who earn much less
than $140k working in Menlo Park. There is that sweet lady in Starbucks near
Facebook that told me she has two sons or people who work in cleaning
services. Those are the ones who deserve media attention first.

~~~
URSpider94
While you are right in raw numerical terms, there is a rich tradition in
America of public servants (police, fire, teachers) living where they work.
People are generally ok with baristas commuting to work, but are much more
likely to be concerned when their firemen live halfway across the state.

EDIT -- just looked it up to confirm, NYC fire and police must live in the
city or one of 6 surrounding NY State counties.

~~~
ZanyProgrammer
Despite the fact that people like baristas make much, much less money than a
lot of public servants.

~~~
gdilla
Being a barista tends to be much more transient of a job than being a teacher
or other public servant - which have traditionally spanned one's entire
working career. Seniority is rewarded, and career switching is often limited.

------
Animats
From the article: _" Menlo Park fire district workers will earn an average
$147,000 this year."_

~~~
URSpider94
... Which is nowhere near enough money to buy a family home there. Maybe if
your spouse is earning a similar wage, you could get your foot in the door.

------
richiezc
Not limited to firefighters, Palo Alto is considering housing subsidies for
families making between 150-250K:
[http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/03/22/250k-per-year-
sa...](http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/03/22/250k-per-year-salary-could-
qualify-for-subsidized-housing-under-new-palo-alto-plan/)

~~~
jldugger
And if you're below 150k? Well, obviously paupers need not apply.

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joshAg
just. build. more. housing. units.

~~~
Chronic51
As someone who owns a house in PA/Menlo, no. I will lobby, make calls, and
write checks to government to make sure it doesn't happen. Is it fair? No.
Ethical? No. Doesn't matter to me.

~~~
chrisper
Lol is this satire or are you a troll? Because I can't tell.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Account created 3 days ago, 4 posts, -7 karma. I'm thinking troll.

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jrnichols
This isn't unique to Menlo Park either, oddly enough. I remember reading about
some San Jose guys that lived in Idaho. But they managed to trade schedules
around to where they were on duty for enough consecutive days that it worked
out just fine.

We see that here in north Texas, although the salaries aren't near as high.
Often times we (I'm a firefighter/paramedic, but work as a paramedic only for
a 911 contract) will have some long commutes. And often times it's because our
family members work closer to home. I drive 150 miles each way to my job where
we work 2 days on and 4 days off. it's just over 2 hours each way. My other
half is a high school teacher with a daughter in elementary school, so they're
close to home and I commute. It's common in this line of work.

------
zootam
paywall

~~~
adaml_623
Use the 'Web' link at the top of the page

~~~
alexc05
Oh! Look at that! Thanks :) I've never noticed that before.

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throwaway_xx9
Public servants have a union to protect them.

Hold your pity until Facebook's own programmers can't afford to live in the
area.

Meanwhile, Zuck buys up the surrounding houses for a "buffer zone." How tone-
deaf can you get?

