
$35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now - felipemesquita
https://www.tesla.com/blog/35000-tesla-model-3-available-now
======
BenoitEssiambre
"To achieve these prices while remaining financially sustainable, Tesla is
shifting sales worldwide to online only. You can now buy a Tesla in North
America via your phone in about 1 minute, and that capability will soon be
extended worldwide. We are also making it much easier to try out and return a
Tesla, so that a test drive prior to purchase isn’t needed. You can now return
a car within 7 days or 1,000 miles for a full refund. Quite literally, you
could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a weekend road trip with
friends and then return it for free. With the highest consumer satisfaction
score of any car on the road, we are confident you will want to keep your
Model 3.

Shifting all sales online, combined with other ongoing cost efficiencies, will
enable us to lower all vehicle prices by about 6% on average, allowing us to
achieve the $35,000 Model 3 price point earlier than we expected. Over the
next few months, we will be winding down many of our stores,"

Bold

~~~
BoorishBears
“Courageous”

If anyone has ever had to cancel a car sale you’ll realize how much of a
hassle it truely is to “return a car”

Your credit report will show a loan even after it’s been cancelled for weeks.

I once cancelled financing for a car due to it not being as described. Started
looking for a new car and found it.

Got denied for a loan because my score showed a 60k loan with 0 payments made.
It took almost 2 months to fully remove it from my report and start with a
clean state

In summary, Tesla is essentially saying “you can’t test drive it but if you
don’t like it you can cancel your car search for a few months and ding your
credit score for nothing”

This is like mattress stores that give you a “free trial”, they know the
resistance to actually doing ending your “trial” is crazy high

~~~
jeffparsons
> "financing for a car" ... "ding your credit score"

To my mind the mere fact that someone would borrow money at all to buy _a car_
is a huge red flag against their creditworthiness / financial responsibility.

But I keep reading online that people who otherwise seem pretty sensible do
this as a matter of course. Is it possible that living in a city with
functioning public transport has sheltered me to the point of naivety? That is
to say, is having a car really so essential to holding down a job and
accessing services in most of America (etc.) that taking out a loan to acquire
a car becomes a necessary evil?

~~~
FreedomToCreate
The Auto Loan industry is huge. I would be surprised if more that 20% of the
population could pay 35000 cash. Most people less that 40 barely have a liquid
cash of 50K. To pull out 35K and regrow that remaining 15K back to 50K would
take a year for someone making 100K. Instead you could take a loan which
typically go for 3% for good credit, and keep that 50K in a high interest bank
account (2% or more) and pay essentially a few hundred dollars over four years
to make sure you have cash available for a true emergency. Why risk that.
Obviously you could argue that someone with only 50K liquid cash shouldn't buy
a 35K but that is not how our economy works. A few hundred bucks so you aren't
broke is not crazy. Additionally in most of the country a car is essential to
live, especially in suburbs and small communities. Everyone could buy a 15K
corolla but everyone wants the cooler thing

~~~
tomjakubowski
> Most people less that 40 barely have a liquid cash of 50K.

If you're talking about the US, this is the greatest understatement I've seen
in some time. I don't have a very good source handy, but for the median
American under 40, try more like "$1,000".

~~~
LandR
> try more like "$1,000".

Wow.

Given your healthcare system and the potential costs of being ill combined
with having such a low amount of savings / safety money. Losing your job could
potentially terrifying in the US.

How do people live what that level of stress continunally?

I could lose my job tomorrow and live for 4-5 years on savings and I'm not
comfortable with that amount and occasionally find myself worrying about my
financial situation.

~~~
rchaud
> How do people live what that level of stress continunally?

Financial literacy is low, and financing is available on everything. Just tell
the person that they can buy something with no money down and you're halfway
to making the sale.

------
CydeWeys
Interesting to point out that the $35k is the full price, which goes down when
additional discounts are applied. If you get the short range model with no
options, it starts out at $35k, then goes down all the way to $24,950 after
including the $3,750 Federal tax credit, $2,000 New York EV rebate (clearly
it's geolocating by IP address here), and "$4,300 estimated 6 year gas
savings".

OK, so that last bit is BS, and it looks like there's a hidden $1,200
destination and doc fee, so the actual real price including tax breaks is
$30,450 in NYC. Still not bad at all!

~~~
kevindong
The gas savings is definitely shady.

But including the federal tax credits and destination fee is fair I think. As
far as I'm aware, no auto maker includes the destination/docs/handling fee in
the MSRP. The Tesla fee amount is comparable to other automakers also (it's on
the high side at $1,200; but it's not too different from Toyota's $930 and
Honda's $920). Presuming your location due to geolocation is a bit too far
(but that's debatable) since they didn't disclose that immediately up front.

~~~
thebluehawk
It's annoying that they don't make it more clear that's what they are doing,
but the gas saving is a real thing. I used to spent $120 a month on gas, that
went to $45 a month of electricity, then I got on a Time of Use plan where
electricity is cheaper at night and now my monthly "fuel" cost is $15.

~~~
vvanders
Yup, I was spending $400/mo on gas which is now close to $50/mo before you
figure in oil change costs.

Quite a few cars/trucks run synthetic these days which can really start adding
up.

~~~
mrfusion
But how much are you going to pay to replace the battery?

~~~
toomuchtodo
[https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-
have-90...](https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-
have-90-capacity-after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/)

"Actual Tesla owners report about a 5% drop in battery capacity by the 50,000
mile mark but after than, the rate of degradation drops considerably. On
average, cars with 160,000 miles on them still have 90% of their battery
capacity remaining. Projecting forward from the real world data available, a
Tesla battery should still have 80% battery capacity after 500,000 miles of
driving, the group claims. The vast majority of internal combustion engines
would have stopped functioning long before then."

Assuming a conservative usage of 20k miles/year, it will take you 25 years to
reach 500k miles.

------
elamje
This thread is like politics - ignoring the amazing fact that an electric
vehicle that can travel 220 miles is 35k (where many hybrids and other
electric cars are way over that price point), to discuss the nuances of
Tesla’s business model and how they market delivery fees etc. Comical. People
10 years ago would say WTF if they knew a high tech, all electric car with
self driving ability was even remotely near 40k(including autopilot).

~~~
pembrook
I don't know if you've heard, but the Chevrolet Bolt has been out for years
now, and is also all-electric. MSRP has been about $30k after the federal tax
credit.

I'd say its more likely we aren't in awe because the Model 3 has been
overpromised and the "mass-market EV" feat has already been accomplished by
someone else.

Of course, most people are like you in that they don't know that. Because GM
is hilariously bad at marketing (and has no cult-of-personality founder
promising grand visions).

~~~
icelancer
The Bolt is not even close to the Model 3 in terms of power, looks, interior,
ICE, etc. Model 3 sold nearly 40k cars through 2018 and the Bolt sold fewer
than 9k. To call the Bolt a failure of marketing might be true but it ignores
the fact that it is simply worse than the Model 3 in essentially 100% of the
areas they overlap.

If the Bolt is "mass-market EV" the definition of "mass-market" needs to be
revisited.

~~~
pembrook
I don't disagree with you that the bolt is inferior.

I was simply explaining why HN was "ignoring the amazing fact that an electric
vehicle that can travel 220 miles is 35k."

It's not worthy of awe and amazement if big old lazy GM met those standards
years ago.

~~~
thebluehawk
The iPhone wasn't a massive success because there were no other smart phones
out there. It was that it was a much more compelling product than what the
competitors were making.

The Bolt is the blackberry of EVs. Sure, on paper it checks the "mass market
EV" boxes but no one is geeking out in cult-like fashion about Bolts like they
do for iPhones and Teslas.

~~~
mawburn
I mean, the iPhone was kind of the only good smartphone that was actually a
"smart phone", when it came out. There was nothing even remotely comparable
until they were a few years into Android. I remember even the first few lines
of Droids that came out and they were substantially inferior products.

------
Shivetya
I own a TM3, Long Range, Premium Interior, Enhanced auto pilot. The best part
of this announcement for LR owners is that the range will be bumped to 325
miles for new and existing cars!

that out of the way, well it is about time. it is nice to see, I still don't
agree with how they present the cost on their website but I am at the point
that I think it will take regulations to fix that. Telsa seems immune to
criticism on that front. I am in the camp of, truth in advertising.

Now, the value of the premium interior took a sizable hit. the remaining
advantages are heated rear seats, more speakers for the stereo, satellite maps
with live traffic, streaming media, and the internet browser.

so my question is, did I pay for life of the car satellite traffic and
streaming? there have been hints that this was not the case. the rear heated
seats and extra speakers certainly don't make up $2500 in value but if there
is lifetime satellite maps with traffic that would be a selling point.

on a side note, the other area besides advertising pricing that Tesla needs to
be called out on is providing parts to repair existing cars. The nightmare
still exists for many owners with some being without their car for over six
months.

~~~
woolvalley
I'd rather use my own cellphone plan & wifi than pay for that kind of stuff
indirectly.

~~~
londons_explore
If the car supported carplay or android auto, this argument would make sense.

~~~
jumelles
Wait, Teslas don't have either of those...?

~~~
jiaweihli
Hilariously enough, Carplay is actually standard on Camrys now (even the
cheapest base model). What a weird time to buy a car.

~~~
londons_explore
I'd be interested to know if tesla's have the hardware to support carplay.
Being able to stream 60fps video over USB with a custom protocol isn't
trivial.

There are opensource projects [1] to implement android auto, so perhaps if
someone runs that on a modded tesla, and gets a bunch of youtube views it
might embarrass tesla into implementing it properly.

[1]:
[https://github.com/gartnera/headunit/tree/master/ubuntu](https://github.com/gartnera/headunit/tree/master/ubuntu)

------
npunt
Legit: [https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245165/tesla-
model-3-pr...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245165/tesla-
model-3-price-lower-cost-elon-musk-news)

New Prices

 _Cheap Interior_

Standard Range (220mi) - $35k

 _Partial Premium Interior_

Standard Range Plus (240mi) - $37k

 _Premium Interiors_

Mid Range (264mi) - $40k

Long Range (325mi) - $43k

Dual Motor Long Range (310mi) - $47k

Dual Motor Performance (310mi) - $58k

~~~
codeulike
So presumably they are hoping many $35k buyers will be tempted by the $37k
which presumably has a better margin for Tesla

~~~
pcurve
I don't think anyone will actually buy $35k model. They made it so undesirable
that it's almost laughable. Reminds me of 2004 Honda Accord DX model with
$16995 with roll-up manual windows, plastic hub caps and manual tranny that
hardly anyone bought.

Most will opt for $40k premium model. Though 37k is much better value, it's
missing the core features that tickle fancy of Tesla buyers.

Standard Interior Includes:

    
    
        Manual seat and steering adjustment
        Cloth seats and base trim
        Basic audio
        Standard maps and navigation
        Center console with storage and 4 USB ports
    

Partial Premium Interior Includes:

    
    
        12-way power adjustable heated front seats
        Premium seat material and trim
        Upgraded audio – immersive sound
        Standard maps & navigation
        LED fog lamps
        Center console with storage, 4 USB ports and docking for 2 smartphones
    

Premium Interior Also Adds:

    
    
        rear heated seats
        Premium audio – 14 speakers, 1 subwoofer, 2 amps, and immersive sound
        Satellite-view maps with live traffic visualization and navigation
        In-car internet streaming music & media
        Internet browser
        Location-aware automatic garage door opener

~~~
elipsey
I drove a couple of Hondas like that, and I kind of liked them. Ever try
replacing a window motor? :)

~~~
macintux
> roll-up manual windows, plastic hub caps and manual tranny

Two of those I don't care about, and the manual transmission is a big win for
me, so yeah, I'm with you.

------
seltzered_
blog post: [https://www.tesla.com/blog/35000-tesla-model-3-available-
now](https://www.tesla.com/blog/35000-tesla-model-3-available-now)

The interesting part is "Shifting all sales online, combined with other
ongoing cost efficiencies, will enable us to lower all vehicle prices by about
6% on average, allowing us to achieve the $35,000 Model 3 price point earlier
than we expected. Over the next few months, we will be winding down many of
our stores, with a small number of stores in high-traffic locations remaining
as galleries, showcases and Tesla information centers."

~~~
sctb
Thanks! We've updated the link from
[https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#battery](https://3.tesla.com/model3/design#battery).

~~~
veb
I was wondering what on earth all the top commenters were talking about!
Thanks.

------
steelframe
Current Tesla Model X owner. Wanted to replace our other car (ICE) with an EV.
Sat in the Model 3 for exactly 15 seconds before I said, "Nope!" Never warmed
up to the whole "must hit GUI elements on an LCD with my finger while driving"
thing Tesla has going on for almost anything you want to do: A/C, headlights,
suspension height, whatever. Interior is still second-rate. Steering column
adjustment was a joke. The interior somehow felt claustrophobic. I don't know
how they managed that given the room they had to work with.

Went down the street to Jaguar and bought an I-PACE. Sure, it's got a handful
of "first gen" issues, but I have no real regrets. Given the choice between
heading out of the garage in the Model X and the I-PACE, I've been choosing
the I-PACE for the past week. Could be because of the novelty of the thing,
but I sort of like things like Bluetooth actually working. I'll use the Tesla
when I'm going far enough to need to use the superchargers. But I actually
haven't used a supercharger in over a year now.

~~~
xedeon
I'm curious about your reasoning for going with the Jag. Never had an issue
with bluetooth on our Model S/X. The X with the tow package made it very
utilitarian and practical. Not to mention the ease and convenience when it
comes to child/baby seats.

Moreover, the I-PACE however is an engineering disaster. They did not develop
the motor/inverter/aero enough and wastes power. They ended up needing a
bigger battery to make the thing work, costing more yet giving horrible
range... Even a Model X from 2016 is much more efficient.

Model X vs I-PACE vs Audi e-tron

Model X wins by far. @120km/h Tesla is 23% more efficient than the e-tron.

Model X - 24.8 kWh/100 km (39.9 kWh/100mi)

E-Tron - 30.5 kWh/100 km (49.1 kWh/100mi)

I-Pace - 31.3 kWh/100 km (50,37 kWh/100mi)

Source: [https://nextmove.de/autobahn-test-tesla-model-x-beats-
audi-e...](https://nextmove.de/autobahn-test-tesla-model-x-beats-audi-e-tron-
jaguar-i-pace/)

It's interesting to also note that the Tesla Model X is the largest of the 3,
and still is more efficient.

~~~
steelframe
I guess I don't care about the efficiency at all. The features I do care about
are whether I have enough range to use it the way I need to and whether it
accelerates fast. On both counts it does perfectly fine. I might pay a little
more for amount of electricity I use, but that's not exactly the "high-order
bit" in terms of the TCO of the vehicle.

------
jillesvangurp
Good, It looks like economies of scale are starting to work in favor of Tesla;
which I find to be unsurprising. Having this car out will shut up a lot of
critics as this has been their favorite thing to whine about for the last
years. Also it will make them even less likely to suffer an imminent
bankruptcy. Another topic that seems to come up regularly, usually just before
Tesla manages to move the bar yet again in some meaningful way. Finally, with
this box ticked, it frees them up to start planning the model Y, their truck
and whatever else they have been talking about for a while.

I would not be surprised to see them announce more price drops in the next
years. They are not done making batteries better and cheaper and they seem to
be very creative in figuring out ways to reduce cost in their production
processes. I think it is that ability that is going to be key to their future
because yes they have competition but the competition seems to have all the
problems that Tesla already solved. They are ahead of the pack in terms of
production capacity, processes, and battery efficiency with a product that so
far seems to be selling such that they can do without the traditional overhead
of having to have an industry of middlemen, sales, marketing, licensed
dealers, etc. That's very disruptive to an industry trying to emulate what
Tesla is doing while preserving all of that.

------
mvexel
I'm confused about the return policy, on the glossy ordering web site it say 7
days / 1000 miles, but on the T&C page it says 3 days / 500 miles.

It's an interesting policy regardless. In sounds like it's pretty much 'no
questions asked'. Any experiences with this?

~~~
npunt
One downside of how fast Tesla changes things is the poor people in charge of
making sure all the assets & copy across all the various documents are all up
to date. I don't envy that position!

------
lol768
If anyone outside of the US wants to see this page without the frustrating
immediate redirect that you get after it has done its GeoIP lookup, you can
use this URL:

[https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?redirect=no#battery](https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?redirect=no#battery)

------
tranchms
It currently costs about $2.50 to manufacture a battery cell. There are 7,700
cells in a standard battery pack. That’s $19,250 in cells before battery pack
assembly.

I don’t know how they are making money on this. I’m inclined to believe
they’re losing money, or someone is somewhere in the line.

Maybe they expect those battery costs to decline rapidly in the near future?

What do you think?

~~~
11thEarlOfMar
They manufacture their own batteries in their Gigafactory outside of Reno, NV.
They make more Li Ion batteries than any other battery manufacturer. Their
batteries cost less than $2.50.

[https://electrek.co/2018/11/20/tesla-gigafactory-battery-
cel...](https://electrek.co/2018/11/20/tesla-gigafactory-battery-cells-made-
cost-advantage-panasonic-lg-report/)

~~~
Someone
I can’t easily find a description of how this partnership works, but I think
_“Panasonic makes batteries in Tesla’s building, and Tesla packs them together
for use in their cars”_ is a better description.

If so, I would expect at least some of that better margin will flow into
Panasonic’s pockets (what part, I wouldn’t dare even guess)

~~~
nickik
The problem is that the battery IP is owned by Tesla at least in part. So its
not Panasonic producing Panasonic batteries in a Tesla building but rather its
Panasonic building Tesla batteries in Tesla building. Panasonic could not just
sell these same batteries to others.

~~~
tranchms
That’s not correct. Panasonic owns the IP for these batteries.

They have a contract with Tesla to produce for them, but Tesla’s demand is so
high they can’t produce enough. Production is 24/7\. Even if Panasonic wanted
to they couldn’t sell to anyone else. I don’t know what kind of price
negotiations they have, but current battery production is not profitable. This
I know.

Also, Panasonic just partnered with Toyota to produce batteries for all their
EV’s.

Additionally, the Gigafactory is just 1 battery production location. Panasonic
has many. Some in the USA, and others in Asia. They sell their batteries to
many companies. Just not the same ones they’re making for Tesla.

~~~
webXL
Given that Tesla says they can deliver a $35k model 3 to you in 2 weeks, I'd
say they better be able to produce enough. Perhaps we'll see that delivery
window slowly increase.

Don't they just need to keep leasing them more space at the factory? What's
the bottleneck there?

~~~
tranchms
OEM Equipment and MRO costs.

There are currently 4 steps in the manufacturing process, with a final
inspection at the end. They have about 35 production lines in total, and will
likely have over 60 when they finish. New lines will have higher output.

They run two 12 hour shifts a day, 7 days a week.

The bottle neck is MRO at the moment. Material costs are a factor, but I know
nothing about that.

In the space of 3 years they implemented these 35 lines. Getting them up and
running to meet the demand and timelines required massive investment, and cost
savings measures were sidelined.

They’re just not beginning to figure out ways to cut costs in order to achieve
profitability.

I don’t know if Tesla has a contract that dictates the cell price, but I know
Panasonic production is not profitable at the moment. They will be, hopefully
in the upcoming years.

Their battery production is the most state of the art. Not only the battery
technology, but the manufacturing process. It’s unparalleled by a long shot.
The scale is breathtaking. Around 3.5 million cells a day with a target over
10 million.

From what I know, bottle necks are costs. High equipment manufacturing costs,
and high maintenance costs.

Space isn’t the issue. They have plenty of space.

------
vgchh
Wonder how the move to close many of their stores would play out 5 years down
the line. Is the idea that now there enough cars out there for people to
experience through friends and colleagues? Seems like a very unconventional
move (conventional for Tesla).

Also it appears Autopilot is now a $3K add-on (vs $5K previously). And the
full self-driving is back at an additional $5K and includes some of the
features that previously existed in AP.

------
paxys
It's so shady that their advertised price includes some hypothetical
"potential gas savings", and the actual price is behind a tiny "learn more"
link.

~~~
LeoPanthera
The real price is at the bottom of the page without having to click through,
but yes, it's still really shady. No other car OEM does this.

~~~
goshx
My experiences with other cars are the opposite. I've seen a lot of advertised
prices that are not really what they want to charge you when you make it to
the store to purchase.

~~~
fengb
Funnily enough, the listed MSRP usually much higher than actual dealership
price.

~~~
bduerst
Anchoring. It's a negotiation tactic since most purchases are through
negotiation.

Also the same with the advertised monthly leasing prices that you see on
commercials - all subject to credit and other circumstances.

~~~
saalweachter
My experience has been that when you actually go in to buy a car, you get a
swath of arbitrary discounts to the MSRP, then you get a few other fees and
especially taxes that bring it back up to the MSRP.

So I'd guess that there's also a component of the high MSRP + large standard
discounts which is also making sure that you don't come in expecting to pay an
advertised price, get aaaallllmost all the way through the process, get the
final price with tax that is ~10%/several k$ higher, and then crap out there
both because it is a real kick in the pants and you may not have the extra
money.

------
Animats
Tesla had to do this. They've filled the order backlog of customers who were
willing to pay more than $35K. They still have many on the list who are only
willing to pay the original $35K. So it's sell at $35K, cut production, or
park the unsold cars in a lot. Happens all the time in automotive.

Big question is, does Tesla make a profit at that price?

$8K more for 50% more battery. Or $24K for an entire large battery. Big markup
there.

~~~
nickik
I don't think they currently had to do this, they have just started delivery
in Europe and China and there is significant demand for the higher priced
models so that they could continue to do this.

I see it more as them wanting to show again that they could build up a huge
order backlog as that something that pretty much no other car company can do.
That would help them with the market and potential future loans.

~~~
camjohnson26
Demand has collapsed in the US for model 3 and looks incredibly weak in Europe
and China at this point. There is no reason for this across the board price
cut other than weak demand.

~~~
Lapsed
Where are you getting this from?

~~~
camjohnson26
It’s general consensus but here’s an article for example that suggests less
than 20,000 Europe orders and hundreds in China. Of course we won’t know for
sure until Q1 earnings but it’s a safe bet

[https://seekingalpha.com/article/4239396-tesla-weak-
model-3-...](https://seekingalpha.com/article/4239396-tesla-weak-
model-3-demand-europe-china-may-widen-losses-2019)

------
powerbroker
It's so shady that they are closing down their stores and have no one to
answer questions about when spare parts for damaged cars are going to arrive.
I detect a pattern of ducking from questions about keeping their current cars
on the road.

~~~
mikeash
The service centers will still be there.

------
martythemaniak
This is a pretty big deal. The Model 3 isn't just a great car, but it's now
price competitive with Hyundai (the Kona EV) and the Chevy Bolt.

------
pinewurst
Amused the $35k model is any color you'd like as long as it's black.

~~~
webninja
:D “Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it
is black.” -Henry Ford (July 30, 1863 – April 7, 1947)

This was in reference to the Ford Model T which was introduced at $850 in 1908
and was brought down to $300 in 1925.

~~~
chrisseaton
I don't see why it's amusing though - it made sense as a way to keep costs
down then and it does now. What's the problem?

~~~
pinewurst
It's amusing to me for the history repeating itself, quite probably
intentionally - not a problem.

------
joshfraser
Interesting to learn they've been artificially handicapping the range, speed
and top power via software until now.

"We’re also excited to announce that we’re implementing a number of firmware
upgrades for both new and existing customers. These upgrades will increase the
range of the Long Range Rear-Wheel Drive Model 3 to 325 miles, increase the
top speed of Model 3 Performance to 162 mph, and add an average of
approximately 5% peak power to all Model 3 vehicles."

~~~
mikekchar
It is possible that they were being conservative because they were afraid of
degradation of batteries. Over time, with more data coming in, perhaps they
decided that it wasn't necessary. It's not really such a surprise that the
limit all of those things -- I think that's necessary for the correct
operation of the vehicle. It's just a matter of where you put that limit and
why.

------
blhack
I just absolutely do not understand how "if you don't like it just return it"
is a replacement for a test drive.

Unwinding an auto loan, getting back your traded-in vehicle, etc. All of this
seems non-trivial to me.

Carvana does the same thing (in fact: they already are doing the whole "buy
the car online, return if you don't like it, we deliver to your house" model).

~~~
craftyguy
> Unwinding an auto loan,

They could pay it off immediately for you?

> getting back your traded-in vehicle,

They could give you the cash value of it? Also, does Tesla even accept trade-
ins?

> etc.

What else?

~~~
bigtex
Tesla is having a terrible time paying off loans and even processing loans so
I would not put too much faith in that.

------
usaphp
_Coming later this year:

\- Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.

\- Automatic driving on city streets.

Option Selected: $5,000_

~~~
pgroves
I've been on plenty of machine learning projects and have seen the boss make
promises that the engineers are expected to keep. This is exactly what it
looks like. The outcome is always overfitting a simulation or data set
somewhere so that it looks like it's working, but the real world performance
ends up being worse. Unless the engineers get stubborn and declare themselves
to have failed (which can actually happen).

But in the projects I did, it was some dumb sales recommendation system. These
people are doing it with self driving cars.

~~~
mikeash
I guess this is a case where it’s fortunate that Tesla is almost always late.

If those features ship before 11:59PM Pacific time on December 31st, I’ll be
surprised.

(And I say this as a fan who owns two of the things.)

------
zepearl
Does this have something to do with the decision of the owners of Tesla's
convertible bonds if to get back cash or shares?

[https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-to-pay-march-
convertib...](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-to-pay-march-convertible-
debt-cash-stock-report-2018-12?r=US&IR=T)

I mean that maybe if the bond owners see that Tesla is (really?) about to
deliver the 35k model they'll opt less for cash and more for stocks?
(therefore Tesla would have less problems with liquidity)

~~~
travisoneill1
No. The only factor is the convert price vs the stock price. If the stock
price is lower, they will just take the cash and buy the stock on the open
market at a better price.

~~~
camjohnson26
Exactly. The bonds will be paid in cash at this point, no question.

~~~
zepearl
Thx!

------
linuxftw
From the article: > At the same time, we will be increasing our investment in
the Tesla service system, with the goal of same-day, if not same-hour service,
and with most service done by us coming to you, rather than you coming to us.
Moreover, we guarantee service availability anywhere in any country in which
we operate.

Woah. Elsewhere [0] it's describe as a fleet of mobile trucks. Don't they know
that it's illegal/against community rules to service vehicles in a driveway or
(for city folks) on the street?

For any major warranty work, I can take my new vehicle from just about any
other brand to the shop, they give me a free loaner vehicle while it's being
worked on. I would be outraged if my only option was 'fix in my driveway after
we get the parts, meanwhile you just wait there'

Fail.

[0] [https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245296/tesla-stores-
clo...](https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245296/tesla-stores-closing-
online-only-car-sales)

------
zaroth
In my obviously very biased opinion as a TM3 owner, I am both happy and sad
for this news.

The Tesla store in the mall near my house is fun. My kids love going there and
sitting in the different models, and my son knows how to trigger all the
Easter eggs, like making the X falcon doors dance.

At the same time, I have zero use for the store now that I’m an owner, and I
had zero use for the store in actually making my purchase. The test drive that
I did finally do of the TM3 (after I had already put $3,500 down and was
entirely certain I would be buying the car) was actually underwhelming because
I didn’t get nearly enough time with the car to really appreciate it, nor get
to drive it in any kind of interesting terrain.

Actually driving my own TM3 on the other hand blew me away from nearly the
first moment and still does.

I wonder how many owners are like me in that with the massive quantity of
YouTube videos and reviews, already knew with certainty a TM3 would be their
next car without actually needing to drive it? BTW, I’ve never had that with
another car, and never would have dreamed of buying a car without driving it,
before Tesla.

At the TM3 base-range $35k starting price, I think the vast, vast majority of
people who “trial” one will keep it. This is particularly true if you’ve
already made any kind of actual arrangement to charge it at a decent kW rate.

I would add that they need to have a trial mode of the full auto-pilot
functionality, and also perhaps the ability to pay monthly for auto-pilot
software subscription rather than bumping up the sticker price. This would
also help with reducing sales tax and excise taxes I think.

I just hope the car-buying public is ready for this. Tesla will rely heavily,
extremely heavily on word of mouth without a way for people to easily get in
and touch and test drive a model with no commitment. Luckily I give test
drives to everyone I know who I can talk into it, and I’m guessing most owners
act the same in an effort to evangelize.

But as they try to go more mass market and compete with the Accords and
Camrys, as they have less of the evangelical early adopters, will that target
market a) have the charging infrastructure readily available, and b) really be
willing to buy purely online and sight unseen?

I want this to work, and fear that it won’t. They are pushing so damn hard to
get to that $35k price point with any kind of margin left over. If they had
another year of process improvements maybe they could do it even with the
stores. Without a store they can pull forward a profitable $35k TM3 several
months at least. So it makes perfect sense while still being a huge gamble.
Wild ride.

(Copied from the other post about the same news)

~~~
Pfhreak
Anecdotally, I knew I was going to buy a Model S before I test drove one. I
_did_ end up test driving one, but it would have needed to be an absolutely
awful experience for me to have not followed through on buying the S.

Even though I timed it incredibly poorly (I have none of the sensors that new
cars do), it is still an amazing car, even after almost 5 years of ownership.

IMO, it's the best car buying experience I've ever had -- no negotiating, no
hidden extras, just clicking through some features and settling on a delivery
date.

------
PinguTS
Here in Germany I just see a black page with the logo and the text: "The wait
is almost over - Great things are launching shortly"

~~~
lol768
In the UK at least, there's a GeoIP lookup that gets done and you get bounced
off elsewhere if it doesn't think you're in the US.

[https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?redirect=no](https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?redirect=no)
works for me to prevent this behaviour.

~~~
PinguTS
Thanks. That works for me too.

------
Johnny555
I wish they'd just rent them out of their service centers.

I'm not likely to buy a car without a chance to drive it first (even if I can
return it "free", there's still a lot of time/effort in getting a loan,
registration, insurance, etc)

But I'd be happy to pay $50/day to rent it for a weekend to give it a good
test drive.

~~~
marvin
Couldn’t you use a regular car rental company for that?

~~~
Johnny555
You probably could if they let you reserve a particular model but I've only
been able to reserve a particular class of car, not a specific model.

------
pasta
I think this is huge. Those are 'affordable' prices and VW admitted Tesla is
way ahead when it comes to range.

------
mrfusion
Why not close the stores and get creative with the test drives?

Pay existing owners a small fee to let prospective buyers drive their car.
Have an app to coordinate.

Or have tesla employees bring out a bunch of cars to a Walmart parking lot
every Saturday.

It doesn’t seem like you need expensive retail space just to cordinate test
drives.

~~~
sowbug
_Pay existing owners a small fee to let prospective buyers drive their car.
Have an app to coordinate._

That was part of the intent of the referral program: rather than relying on a
dealership network with expensive real estate and expensive marketing,
encourage happy owners to sell by word of mouth.

Unfortunately Tesla inadvertently killed the program by picking a too-valuable
top prize with the wrong incentive (a $250K Roadster in exchange for a lot of
referrals by a single owner, limiting the network effect, rather than a
smaller award for a smaller number of referrals spread across many owners).
Plus there was no limit on the number of top awards, with some people
achieving multiple Roadster awards.

------
sidcool
This is amazing. Kudos team Tesla. You have reached here against tall odds and
severe cynicism.

------
sjm-yc-acct
I wish they would hire the interior controls engineer that worked on the 8th
gen. Mazda Protege. Simple, elegant, and ergonomic.

That giant iPhone in the middle of the Tesla 3 puts a crick in my neck just
from looking at the pictures.

~~~
m463
The giant ipad is fine for people who don't want to drive, but for people who
enjoy driving, an immersive experience is important.

I think the people who want the performance version should get a dashboard, or
the option of one. I'll bet a $3000 optional dashboard would sell like
hotcackes.

~~~
mikeash
What’s immersive about having a bunch of dials and gauges in front of you?

~~~
m463
I've driven the model 3 and the model S (which both present the same
information).

I think the dashboard of the model S puts good information in your line of
sight. In comparison, using the model 3 display seems a little like trying to
use your cellphone while driving.

As to dials and guages, I'm not trying to pin it down to that. Just driving
information in your line of sight.

I could also say a HUD would be cool too. I've actually spent some time in
military aircraft simulators with actual hardware huds, and I can tell you
that it draws you in.

But who knows, I might be one of those people bemoaning the new "iphone
gadget" and it's lack of a keyboard :)

~~~
mikeash
I own both. Neither one has the information really in your line of sight (nor
does any other car, unless they have HUDs). You have to move your eyes in a
different direction, but it’s about the same effort. It takes a minute to get
used to looking diagonally instead of down, and then it’s business as usual.

~~~
sjm-yc-acct
Thanks, this is an interesting insight. Still, looking at aircraft with flat
screen "glass cockpits" without HUD, they tend to follow the Model S pattern:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Citation_Mustang#/media...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Citation_Mustang#/media/File:Cessna_Citation_Mustang_glass_cockpit.jpg)

Critical displays and controls in front of the pilot, other controls readily
accessible by feel/muscle memory. Aircraft designers tend to be very
conservative due to safety, but cars involve safety considerations too--which
is why I think car designers do tend to stick to standard configurations.

~~~
mikeash
I’m not sure it’s comparable. There’s a lot of information you need to keep an
eye on when flying. Speed, altitude, attitude, coordination, heading,
position, etc. Lose track of any of those and you can get behind the airplane
and crash.

In a car, you sorta need to know your speed, and that’s it. Even speed is not
entirely necessary. In an ICE car you also might want to keep an eye on engine
RPM, oil temperature, and other such things, but you don’t need them in an EV

If all your instruments go out in an airplane, it’s an emergency. Depending on
the aircraft type and situation, it may mean certain death. If it happens in a
car... I’m not convinced most drivers would even notice. Those who do would
only be mildly inconvenienced at worst.

Edit: here’s an example of an airplane with side by side seating and a central
instrument panel: [https://www.pipistrel-
usa.com/taurus/](https://www.pipistrel-usa.com/taurus/). Gliders are much more
car-like in their instrumentation needs, although they still need a bit more,
and losing them all is still an emergency.

~~~
sjm-yc-acct
I have spent a little time flying in the left seat and right seat of real
single engine aircraft (although I have never been in any Tesla.) I would say
it's comparable, but a matter of degree. It is true that there is a much
higher workload on the a/c pilot, especially on taxiing, takeoff, and landing.
Pilots rely completely on their instruments during IFR.

I have the feeling safety would be an issue if I was fumbling around for the
defroster menu item in the mountains rather than having it at hand when my
windshield was rapidly fogging up--in any vehicle. (Ask me about my trip to
Laramie, WY last week.) Driving off a cliff would be a bad day, too. What
about the battery overheating indicator? I would rather that be in front of me
too in an electric car. A chime could help in this situation, but what if
people where honking at you while seeing smoke coming from your vehicle?

BTW, did you notice the redundant mechanical instrument cluster in the Cessna
Mustang (located above the display with the map)--another design element that
increases safety if you have a primary display failure...

~~~
greglindahl
What battery overheating indicator?

The power meter, which is with the speedometer, has an indication if battery
output is throttled. You can also feel it in the accelerator, no need to look.

~~~
sjm-yc-acct
Wait, the car doesn't tell you if the battery is overheating? That doesn't
happen with Li-ion batteries? I heard it does in cars and airplanes and
laptops...

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner_battery_problems)

[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/overheating.109238/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/overheating.109238/)

~~~
greglindahl
If the battery is physically damaged causing a runaway, the car flashes a huge
warning and beeps. But that isn’t caused by ordinary events like driving up a
steep hill when it’s hot out. It’s caused by accidents that significantly
damage the car.

~~~
sjm-yc-acct
Battery failures can also be caused by manufacturing/design defects in the
cells (as in the Boeing batteries) or malfunctioning components of the
_active_ cooling system in the Model 3 like fans/pumps/coolant (like the Tesla
club owner).

Having a coolant temperature gauge in front of you could show you a trending
problem, before the car announces to you that it is shutting down as you
attempt to merge into 75 MPH traffic.

~~~
greglindahl
I don't think the Boeing failure would cause a runaway in a Tesla battery, nor
any other electric car allowed on the road, nor in the redesigned Boeing 787
battery pack.

The Tesla club comment at the top of your link is about a Roadster, not a
Model 3.

------
nojvek
> Tesla is committed to making not just the best electric cars, but the best
> cars, period. And our products are the reason we continue to rank #1 in
> Consumer Reports owner satisfaction survey and have every single year since
> Tesla was first eligible to be included in 2013

I am making a bold prediction. Tesla may or may not go under water, but when
they are short on funds Apple will acquire them.

Apple’s whole brand is built on making the best hardware and software and
weaving them to a great user experience.

With billions of dollars in the bank, Apple would be stupid to not do it.

------
wil421
>At the same time, we will be increasing our investment in the Tesla service
system, with the goal of same-day, if not same-hour service, and with most
service done by us coming to you, rather than you coming to us. Moreover, we
guarantee service availability anywhere in any country in which we operate.

Next Tesla 2021 newsflash, we will continue to operate service centers but in
order to reduce costs further we will no longer be able to come to you.

------
dreamcompiler
Two years ago Teslas were cool. Superchargers were free, they didn't have any
real competition, and the Model S cars were very high quality. But now
superchargers are expensive to use, competition in the long-range EV space is
ramping up dramatically, and the Model 3 is much less reliable than the Model
S was. Seems like they're responding to softening demand. I hope they can stay
in business, but it doesn't look good.

------
lazyjones
Perhaps this will be the second big disruption of the car industry and market
by Tesla. Volvo/Polestar has already switched to this sales concept for their
electric cars, Porsche/Audi/Mercedes are taking online pre-orders like Tesla
years ago. Will all traditional car makers soon use the "Amazon model"
extensively to bolster their margins?

------
linux2647
> Quite literally, you could buy a Tesla, drive several hundred miles for a
> weekend road trip with friends and then return it for free.

Has anyone done this?

~~~
AdrianB1
The announcement was today, so there was no chance to do it in the last
weekend.

------
11thEarlOfMar
For sure, the most interesting number in upcoming 10Qs will be the gross
margin.

15%? 20%? 25%?

For reference, General Motors reports less than 10%. Toyota, 18%.

~~~
nickik
The 35k will probably drag their margin down but they will still sell luxury
models they will spend most of 2019 trying to get the margins up. The deftly
want to keep it over 20% as having the high gross margin has always been on of
their main claim to fame as nobody else can do that with EV right now.

------
WheelsAtLarge
Yes, Tesla got to the $35000 price but it's a car no one wants at the base
price and you can't even test drive it.

The battery cost is the problem. I suspect that it's only a matter of time
before a Tesla with all the amenities can be had for $35000. Good for them...

------
gaoshan
I held on as long as I could and saved up money and kept driving my 11 year
old Honda. Had it totaled in a car accident a few months back and had to buy
something so now instead of the $35,000 Tesla I had wanted for so long I own a
perfectly decent Honda Insight. At least it was cheaper.

------
skandl
Everyone in the comments crying "I'd never buy a car without a test drive
first" as though you need dealerships to offer a chance to drive their cars.
Why not order a test drive experience online to appear at your door, just like
we do every day with Uber and Lyft?

------
plg
In Canada, after tax, the most basic model with no options is almost $60,000
CAD. With all wheel drive, sport wheels, and no other options (no autopilot
options at all) it is basically $78,000 CAD after tax. I can get a LOT of car
for that price elsewhere. Yikes.

~~~
DeonPenny
Just have someone buy it across the boarder for that

~~~
woolvalley
Unfortunately, tesla does not provide the paperwork to import the car, so you
can't import a us tesla into canada.

Probably to protect that margin your seeing.

If I'm wrong, a friend of mine would be interested :D

------
microcolonel
Is there an option which gives you good panel fitment and unharmed paint upon
delivery?

~~~
natch
Those were problems with some early deliveries. Things have improved a lot
over time.

~~~
microcolonel
> _Things have improved a lot over time._

I'm going by what I've seen of people receiving orders in the last few months,
over what time has it improved? If you buy one now, will the fitment compare
to (for example) GM by the time it is delivered? How likely is the paint to be
scratched all the way through to the base coat on delivery?

I want to believe that they can make these things right, but honestly I can
not have that much faith in them given what I've seen.

~~~
natch
There are a lot of haters and short sellers out there and they can be
especially vocal, so I’d just say take what you’ve seen online with a grain of
salt.

~~~
microcolonel
Exhibit A: Notorious Tesla hater and shortseller[0]; deceiving us all with his
pesky rulers and loupes.

Sarcasm aside, I'm inclined to be charitable to Tesla, but quality issues
abound with every generation of Tesla products; and while things have
improved, they are behind the industry in many areas.

[0]: [https://youtu.be/FSLTNjGI8hw](https://youtu.be/FSLTNjGI8hw)

~~~
natch
Yeah they are behind in some areas, and WAY ahead in others. If people go in
with their eyes open, and their priorities straight, they'll be fine. But one
point that seems to get lost is that the reported quality issues have gotten
way better.

That car in the video is I'll admit quite ridiculous -- I'm guessing it is an
anomaly though. My car had nothing like that and I did inspect it carefully on
delivery (I guess this guy did not). I don't think anyone is forcing you to
take delivery if you get an insanely scratched car like that, but certainly
it's fair to expect that a car company would not try to deliver such a
scratched car in the first place. I just don't think it represents the normal
experience these days.

------
londons_explore
> Moreover, we guarantee service availability anywhere in any country in which
> we operate.

They'll regret this when they find out how remote some islands near alaska are
that you need to take a plane then a helicopter to reach...

------
d--b
While I think making cars online sale only makes sense in terms of company
operations. I am not exactly sure that making a car go from 37k to 35k will
make such a difference in terms of sale.

Probably a good publicity stunt though.

------
sanj
The Massachusetts EV rebate is incorrect. It dropped to $1500 this year.

------
johnwheeler
Im sure there’s a long waiting list, right? Seems like a great value

~~~
andrewmunsell
Delivers in 2-4 weeks according to Tesla

------
elchief
In British Columbia you can get $5k incentive for an electric vehicle plus $5k
if you destroy your ICE car. I believe you need to own it for 6 months

So about $36k net CAD for the base Model 3

~~~
b_tterc_p
Why... would that make sense? We want to shift away from ICE but destroying
existing cars is clearly illogical...

~~~
AdrianB1
If you have a really old car that is polluting a lot, it makes sense to give
an incentive to retire it rather than selling it and keep it on the streets. I
think in my country the incentive is for cars older than 12 years, nobody will
destroy a new ICE car to get $5,000 when you can get much more by selling it.

------
matthewfelgate
Firing the Salesmen; Making the Product Cheaper + Service Better.

I like.

------
Black-Plaid
Available seems like a stretch, you can order one, but you sure as hell can't
get one any time soon.

------
vgoh1
Tesla - love them or hate them, you have to admit, this move is bold, even
borderline insane. I can't tell if this is going to save the company or wreck
them, but I have to admire the balls of the leadership! At the end of the day,
I think it's a pro-consumer move, provided Tesla allows independent re-sellers
to cater to those who want a more traditional experience.

~~~
linuxftw
Most of the Tesla 'dealerships' I have seen simply don't have the real estate
of normal dealerships. There's no way they can rollout a consumer car to their
present locations.

However, it appears they're doing all sales online? Smells like a last-ditch
effort to cut operational costs. It's one thing to consider buying a $35k
online sight-unseen (I never would), but are people going to shell out $80k+
for the luxury models? I just don't see how they will. Sitting in and driving
a car is the most important aspect of buying one, IMO.

------
MarkMc
Suppose Apple shut down their stores and you could only buy an iPhone online.
Would they make more profit?

~~~
btian
No. Apple stores also do repairs

~~~
aquabeagle
When was the last time you got something repaired at a store while you waited?
They usually have to send everything out these days.

------
JVIDEL
Awesome, too bad that its never going to be available over here.

Thanks (local) government...

------
sriram_sun
I wish they'd bundle solar installation or something with a Tesla.

------
vinni2
But why only in US? Will there be price drop in rest of the world?

------
jonny_eh
No Apple CarPlay support?

------
sambroner
Seems like a good opportunity for a peer to peer test drive network.

People might pay 50 bucks for a 1hr drive.

I can’t tell making consumers find alternatives to a test drive is good
capitalism or bad capitalism.

------
DeonPenny
And the stock has cratered

------
jakemor
So this is the big news?

~~~
_ph_
Yes, it is. For Tesla it means, that they made up to their promise given when
introducing the Model 3. Tesla has gotten a lot of critique after the Model 3
deliveries where much later than initially expected and the available versions
much more expensive then the promised base price. Offering now a Model 3 for
that base price should win them a lot of credibility back.

For the consumer it means, that the cheapest Tesla is now available for 35k
vs. 42k vor the mid-range until today. Thats 7k less and make Tesla cars
available to a larger audience. While I don't like how Tesla represents the
prices with savings, the effective price gets close or below 30k, which is
huge.

For electric cars overall it is also important. Tesla is the largest
manufacturer of electric cars and the waiting times for the Model 3 are way
lower than the competition. So this marks quite some progress in the
availability of affordable electric cars.

~~~
jmpman
It’s not the promise I’d signed up for. When I dropped my $2k reservation, it
was for a $35,000 car, including a $7500 government rebate, or net $27500
(plus tax lic etc). Instead of delivering my car in the order the reservation
was placed, (in that scenario, I’d get the full $7500 rebate), my reservation
was reprioritized for Tesla’s bottom line. Would I have done the same thing in
Elon’s shoes, sure, but just because they’ve delivered a $35,000 version,
doesn’t mean I’m happy.

~~~
natch
That’s fair, but then it’s not necessarily all about what you want. Part of it
is helping invest in accelerating the world’s transition to sustainable
energy. Personally I’m ok with that. ymmv.

How was your reservation $2k though? It makes me wonder if you are really a
reservation holder, given that you got the amount wrong. Fake outrage?

~~~
jmpman
I put down two reservations, at $1k each. So, my outrage is quite real. I
intended to buy two $35k versions, after rebate at $27,500, that’s a better
deal than any Honda Accord. And, I didn’t request my refund back because I
believed in the vision. However, now I’m even more pissed, so I’ve made the
refund request.

------
thoughtstheseus
How many data scientists do you think it took to decide this exact phrase?

“For 6% more money, you get 9% more range, more power, and an upgraded
interior.“

------
jaggednad
So good to see Elon making it happen despite a full court press against him in
the media, likely financed by the saudis and other oil interests, and hedge
funds who betting against him

------
anth_anm
Desperation move to try and get the stock above the point where they have to
repay a billion dollar loan?

~~~
T-A
No, that boat sailed a couple of days ago:

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-27/musk-s-
tw...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-27/musk-s-tweets-all-
but-assure-cash-payout-for-920-million-bond)

------
dmitrygr
Actually: $36,200

Tesla charges a non-negotiable $1,200 "Destination & doc fee" which in CA is
not a _fee_. It is not state mandated, and is just pure profit for dealerships
that charge it (explaining why the amount varies wildly per-dealership).

Google it. It is NOT required anywhere, and all cars I've ever bought, I've
gotten the dealership to pay it.

~~~
sixQuarks
Sorry, but that's BS. You have never gotten a dealer to take doc fee off the
price. That would be illegal and no dealer is going to do that. Negotiate the
price of the car lower? Yes. Take doc fee off. No way. By law, dealers HAVE to
charge the same doc fee to every buyer. They may not have to charge doc fee,
but if they do, it's the same for everyone, no exceptions.

If on some crazy change you actually got the dealer to line item doc fee as $0
on the contract, than they could be in a ton of trouble.

~~~
dmitrygr
read again. they keep it on, and reduce other things, to match the agreed-upon
final price. i do not care how they split it.

------
throwaway2016a
This is kind of infuriating. I just took delivery of my AWD Long Range end of
December and $3000 less even when you take into consideration my tax credit.

And to top it off, the RWD Long Range and Performance are getting firmware
updates that give them extra speed (in the case of Performance) or range (in
the case of RWD) but mine is getting... "about a 5% increase in power"
whatever that means.

I get paying extra to be an early adopter (and have gladly done it). But I
effectively paid $1000 for every month I had it early.

I feel cheated like Tesla just took the government money and instead of
passing on savings to the customer they pocketed it.

Edit: As an aside, I love the car and would still recommend it. But I think
people in my situation have a right to be a little upset.

~~~
beaner
If you wait for everything to get cheaper or better, you'll never get
anything, cuz likely there's always something better coming next year.

I think when making purchases, it's helpful to be able to ask "is this a fair
trade for me right now?" If it's no, don't get it. If it's yes, then when you
complain to yourself or feel that you've been treated unfairly, the 2nd voice
in your head should be saying "this was a fair deal that you chose to accept,
be happy with it, don't be envious of better deals offered to others."

~~~
throwaway2016a
I understand that but we're talking three months here and a 20% drop in price
for an identical product. This is not like a new iPhone.

I owe the bank more than the car is worth NEW. Or close to it.[0]

So effectively, Tesla has tanked the resale value of the asset. So the $3000
isn't even the half of it. I am now also depreciated by that much more.

[0] I haven't done the math, I may be be slightly bellow by a few hundred
bucks.

Edit: Removed the use of the word "underwater". Per sokolof's correct
statement, it's a car, you're pretty much under water the second you drive off
the lot.

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sokoloff
Unless you made a particularly large downpayment, you were probably _already_
underwater on the loan. That's extremely common for the first 1/3-1/2 of the
loan period on nearly any car.

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throwaway2016a
Point taken and comment updated.

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WrtCdEvrydy
Unfortunately, this happens and is one of the main reasons companies don't
like to take about changes in price in public.

