
Amazon Has Just Registered to Sell Ocean Freight - prostoalex
https://www.flexport.com/blog/amazon-ocean-freight-forwarder/
======
pcooney10
This deal is huge, but I hope Amazon starts doing a little better diligence on
their sellers. I was initially drawn to Amazon for their amazing customer
reviews - they were usually current and decently, well-written - but most
importantly they offered a resassurance that websites without product reviews
didn't have.

Over the past year, I've noticed a HUGE uptick in the quantity of fake 5-star
reviews. They are so blatant it's frightening, and they usually go unnoticed
in Amazon's default "Most Helpful" sorting.

In particular, the Home Office Desk Chairs landscape is pretty insane:
[http://www.amazon.com/Home-Office-Desk-Chairs-
Furniture/b?ie...](http://www.amazon.com/Home-Office-Desk-Chairs-
Furniture/b?ie=UTF8&node=3733721). I was trying to find a chair back in
September, and I was appalled by some of the reviews I was seeing. Top selling
products, with several hundred reviews that averaged out to 4/4.5/5 stars.

This is a screenshot from back in September:
[http://imgur.com/qbCz0yE](http://imgur.com/qbCz0yE), and it only contains a
small sample of the "Awesome, highly recommend" reviews spattered around.
You'll notice this pattern on virtually every chair on Amazon, except the
Aamazon basics chairs which wer launched sometime in late September / early
October. Their reviews seem pretty good so far (i.e. real), but unfortunately
for me I had purchased a chair from eBay before these launched.

These patterns are pretty frighteneing (especially considering a lot of people
are actually buying these things), especially considering I've experienced the
same issues when shopping for others things.

Has anyone else had an experience like this? Or am I losing it?

~~~
lhecker
You will probably like [http://fakespot.com/](http://fakespot.com/) for
discovering those fake reviews. ;)

Unfortunately it does not always work accurately, but I think it gives a good
estimation whether a product is legit.

Example for AmazonBasic: [http://fakespot.com/product/amazonbasics-mid-back-
mesh-chair](http://fakespot.com/product/amazonbasics-mid-back-mesh-chair)

And for "Engineered Now": [http://fakespot.com/product/headrest-for-herman-
miller-aeron...](http://fakespot.com/product/headrest-for-herman-miller-aeron-
chair-h3-standard-by-engineered-now)

~~~
simonebrunozzi
Fakespot should create a chrome extension - extremely useful when I navigate
Amazon.com

~~~
abledon
When I go to the page there's a blue popup above that says they have one...
(I'm on firefox currently)

[https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fakespot-
analyze-f...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fakespot-analyze-fake-
ama/nakplnnackehceedgkgkokbgbmfghain)

------
coffeebite
Did Flexport just preemptively reveal Amazon’s entry into the ocean freight
market and then convince every major newspaper in the world to label the
service unfit for American companies?

~~~
CptJamesCook
Well, I haven't seen The Washington Post weigh in on the subject yet.

~~~
frozenport
Cpt. Crunch would have been a better choice of novelty account name.

------
bemmu
Up to now they were telling anyone who wanted to ship directly to FBA
warehouse to use Samuel Shapiro and Co., Inc.

I still have a stack of paperwork from them back when I was considering
shipping some items by container from Japan.

~~~
ripberge
The big question is, if you're a Chinese factory and you want to sell directly
on Amazon's marketplace, don't you still need an "importer" of record? I do
recall hearing about this mysterious Samuel Shapiro Co as well. Is that going
to change? If the goods are sitting in Amazon's warehouse, does the Chinese
factory still legally own them? Who gets sued if they're defective?

~~~
markdown
You can import into the US as a Foreign Importer of Record:

[https://www.flexport.com/learn/not-based-u-s-importing-
forei...](https://www.flexport.com/learn/not-based-u-s-importing-foreign-
importer-record/)

------
balls187
I'm working on software to facilitate international commerce.

Amazon getting into international freight logistics is big news.

~~~
kyllo
Yeah, it is going to a big "oh shit" moment for all the existing players in
the logistics and freight forwarding industry. It may take Amazon a few years
to build up the infrastructure but once they do, they could eat everyone's
lunch.

~~~
analognoise
Isn't that assuming that all the others in the space haven't spent years and
millions of dollars optimizing these things already? Amazon brings a good
entry point for products to the US market from overseas, but I don't think
there is any shortage of that capability already.

I'm sure I'm missing the greater significance.

~~~
seanlinehan
All the big players definitely have spend years and millions (hundreds of
millions) optimizing these things. But they are optimizing DOS-based systems
built in the 80s. The tech stack that the old guard is working with is
unbelievable.

~~~
analognoise
You said DOS like its a bad thing. It's well understood, completely paid for,
and does the job.

Whats wrong with it, in this case? Even if maintenance costs go up, its still
cheaper to maintain than to build a new system, especially if the old system
fulfills all the requirements and is proven.

~~~
seanlinehan
These systems fulfills all the requirements in yesterday's world. And more
importantly, they fulfill the requirements of the company's operating
organization; not their customer's.

Modern customers want real-time data and analysis. They want all of their
information available on the web, mobile, sms, email, API. They want a modern
technology experience.

A DOS program consuming data via EDI and Excel-based input is a good candidate
for the worst technology to do these types of things.

~~~
analognoise
Why would a customer need real-time data and analysis from a bulk cargo
shipment? That doesn't make any sense.

I think most customer just want to know when their stuff is going to arrive -
they don't need 'real-time data and analysis' (or if they do, they don't
expect the guy moving the cargo to provide it for them).

Also, those DOS\cobol systems already made shipping so cheap you can get a 40
foot container (full of stuff) from China to LA for $1300.

They can't scale? They currently handle the whole world's shipping needs. That
sounds like it scaled just fine.

~~~
kyllo
_Why would a customer need real-time data and analysis from a bulk cargo
shipment? That doesn 't make any sense._

You wouldn't, but freight forwarders typically don't move bulk cargo, they
move containerized cargo. Bulk means the entire vessel hull is loaded with one
raw materials commodity, like grains or minerals.

Companies importing finished goods absolutely do want instant, automated
status updates on where their goods are at, because that information helps
them load-balance their supply chain to keep their warehouses and stores
stocked at the right levels and evaluate the performance of their contracted
manufacturers and logistics service providers. Supply chain managers
absolutely want scorecards and dashboards and push status updates.

------
shubhamjain
50+ years in future - Amazon is still optimising some part of their ecommerce
infrastructure / entering a new market. Jokes aside, it will be incredibly
interesting how Amazon's strategy to discard profits and just scale everywhere
will work out. Will they become insanely profitable as everyone expects?

~~~
vonklaus
I would imagine that tgey realized it would be easier to do autopilot on a
container ship than drones.

They already have pilot boats, where a licensed captain navigates from a
staging area off shore into the port of call. Actually a reasonably standard
thing in shipping.

They are now the level 3/cogent + verizon + netflix of commerce. I dont even
think walmart had this level of rollup.

~~~
TorKlingberg
Amazon do have their own ships, they are reselling shipping services.

~~~
PakG1
So they're doing the shipping version of AWS?

~~~
darkr
Amazon Wet Services?

------
jhayward
If I read this correctly this is a vertical integration play.

Just from the title I had guessed that that they would own ships as a hedge
against rises in freight costs, just as airlines buy oil stocks etc.

Is anyone aware of any analysis of Amazon's recent moves in aircraft, drones,
and so on as hedge vs integration vs disruption?

~~~
kuschku
Amazon is planning to drop DHL as delivery service in Germany, and instead
start its own one, as newspapers reported in the last weeks.

So it makes sense.

------
gulfie
Due to shipping company economics the ships are in port.
[http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-11/nothing-moving-
balt...](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-11/nothing-moving-baltic-dry-
crashes-insiders-warn-commerce-has-come-halt)

Amazon needs move product to make money. If others will not physically move
that product to the US, then they'll have to do it. More expensive is better
than none at all.

~~~
ctdonath
The ships are moving. Zero Hedge's Tyler Durden didn't pay for access to the
data that shows the ships that aren't in port, didn't realize it, and came to
the wrong conclusion that ships aren't shipping.

It's like looking at a parking lot and concluding no cars are on the freeway.

~~~
thedogeye
Yeah this guy is a real amateur, probably the worst analysis I've ever read
about the shipping industry.

------
hayksaakian
this is actually really big.

amazon was changing up it's rules with shipping from china a few months ago,
now I can see why they did it.

------
ijafri
>As the freight forwarder on a company’s shipments, Amazon would see both the
name of the supplier and the wholesale price paid by the importer. (from the
Article)

It's unlikely that an importer or exporter is going to use Amazon for the
freight forwarding outside its network. I guess Amazon only will end up
handling shipments of its own or network sellers who significantly rely on
amazon to sell their products, likely through LCL Consol box, putting a lot of
smaller shipments into a single 40HC container., that's going to save them a
lot of cost as well as give them tighter control over the shipment routing and
transit time etc.

Other regular importers & exporters either in China or USA are never going to
use it. Because of the reason mentioned above.,

An importer or exporter shares too much sensitive and critical information
with his freight and customs agent., If I suddenly get involved in trading or
in other words become their competitor its obvious no one is going to share
the information with me.

~~~
kyllo
Amazon would need to put up a convincing firewall between their freight
forwarding business unit and their e-commerce and product business units.

I have seen other companies where this is done--a particular business unit or
subsidiary is prohibited from disclosing its sensitive customer data to its
parent company because of the conflict of interest it would create.

Amazon is serious about internal controls so I don't doubt they could pull
this off as well if they want to.

~~~
tyingq
They seem to have no qualms about using sales stats to undercut sellers on
Amazon Marketplace.
[http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240527023044414045774829...](http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304441404577482902055882264)

I see no reason this would be any different.

------
brightball
I understand the move and why they are doing it...this just feels like what a
monopoly starts to look like.

~~~
marcusgarvey
I have been wondering why the U.S. seems to have moved so far from the trust-
busting days of Teddy Roosevelt, and why it now seems so permissive towards
monopolistic practices. This helps explain it
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antitrust_Paradox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antitrust_Paradox)

------
oneJob
Interesting possible side effect. Ocean freight vessels are,
disproportionately, on of the greatest contributors, and in fact one of the
greatest contributors in absolute terms, to CO2 emissions. Perhaps Amazon's
involvement will shine a spotlight on this issue that has heretofore gone
under the radar.

~~~
snuxoll
Unfortunately they are also the most efficient way to move a disproportionate
amount of cargo over international waters, they get terrible "mileage" but
when you consider tonne/miles instead of raw distance per gallon of fuel they
are "efficient" compared to alternatives.

Unless we plan on equipping civilian vessels with nuclear reactors or somehow
make storing gigantic hydrogen fuel cells safe the situation isn't going to
change much.

~~~
oneJob
It's not the mileage. It's the fuel and lack of regulation.

"The fuel used in ships is waste oil, basically what is left over after the
crude oil refining process. It is the same as asphalt and is so thick that
when cold it can be walked upon . It's the cheapest and most polluting fuel
available and the world's 90,000 ships chew through an astonishing 7.29
million barrels of it each day, or more than 84% of all exported oil
production from Saudi Arabia, the worlds largest oil exporter." [1]

[1] [http://www.gizmag.com/shipping-
pollution/11526/](http://www.gizmag.com/shipping-pollution/11526/) [2]
[http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/apr/09/shipping-...](http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/apr/09/shipping-
pollution)

~~~
snuxoll
Yeah, bunker C is awful environmentally, but it's cheap and still pretty good
as far as energy density is concerned. Even if freighters ran on refined
petrol they would still be going through millions of barrels of petrol a day
though, I'd be interested to see the breakdown of pollutants exhausted from
burning a gallon of bunker C vs refined petrol - I'm having a hard time
finding this data.

~~~
oneJob
don't normally do this, but, given the seriousness with which i take this
topic, just wanted to say, that was an exceedingly ignorant statement.

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hamandcheese
I thought amazon was already in the container game
[https://aws.amazon.com/ecs/](https://aws.amazon.com/ecs/)

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thedogeye
Someday I hope that Amazon will provide a fully vertically-integrated
ecommerce marketplace for the people of the Amazon River basin.

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swehner
I take it as a sign of unhealthiness.

Amazon obviously have too much cash lying around.

So be good and stop using Amazon!

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it_learnses
the govt should seriously start considering breaking up Amazon.

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meeper16
I thought they would have had this in the works years ago. No surprise.

