
What is this colored fiber in my chicken? - kurmouk
http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/79674/what-is-this-colored-fiber-in-my-chicken
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ncr100
Fake meat cannot come soon enough - poor bird was encouraged to grow in an
unhealthy manner resulting in dead tissue inside it while it was still alive.
I wonder if it was painful for the bird having this tough dead tissue at the
core of its breasts.

~~~
pavlov
This is just the tip of the iceberg in how animals are treated. Industrial
meat production practically runs its margins on increasing the suffering of
animals in a manner that narrowly avoids this kind of visible anomalies in the
product.

As many others have noted in the past, slave labor and concentration camps
operated on a similar industrial calculus of forcibly squeezing out value from
living beings before putting them to death.

Waiting for "fake meat" to fix the problem is like saying: "I can't wait until
we can grow zombies to pick cotton, then all the slaves can finally go free."

~~~
qubyte
Not if we're talking about advances in textured vegetable protein. When I read
"fake meat" I take it to mean that it's not animal derived. Otherwise it'd
just be meat.

~~~
ikurei
Still, we can do something about it right now. We may need meat, but we don't
need meat in every meal; if we reduced the consumption of meat, we could
conceivably switch to more expensive, less efficient, more humane ways to grow
animals.

If you can afford it, you can also only buy meat from non-intensive farming.
Or stop eating meat all together.

I just don't think it's morally right to wait for a solution that may not ever
come, or not for a long time. I eat veggie fake-meat often, and sometimes it's
great, but it's not close to real meat and I don't know that it'll ever be
accepted by most of the population.

~~~
jshevek
"We may need meat, but we don't need meat in every meal"

Is it still a common belief that we 'need meat'? I thought it was well
established that humans in normal health do not _need_ meat to thrive -
especially with our current technology and industry. We can easily meet all of
our nutritional needs without any animal flesh.

~~~
ikurei
I agree we don't need to eat meat, and I'm a vegetarian, but I'm around... 80%
sure.

I'd rather use the less-strong statement I need to make a point. It is still a
common belief that not eating meat is in some way less healthy, because plants
have lower-quality proteins.

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Hexcles
Animal welfare aside, I find people in North America really in favour of
chicken breast, much more than other parts, say chicken thigh. Yet I myself
think chicken thigh tastes much better, especially with the skin (yet again it
is usually skinless in supermarkets here, unfortunately). Is it because of
nutrition (percentage of fat/protein etc.)? On top of that, chicken feet are
considered unacceptable by many...

~~~
dantillberg
On the bright side: I live in the US, I love the "dark"/fatty meat on
chickens, and I don't mind that everyone else here prefers "white"/dry chicken
meat because that means a) chicken thighs are often much less expensive, and
b) I rarely have to fight over the thighs and other fatty meat when sharing a
full bird.

Edit to add: As for _why_ other people prefer white meat, people usually
invoke that it tastes better, but I've always figured that this was an
_acquired_ taste and that decades of pressure to reduce fat in our diets
pushed people continually over to breast meat.

~~~
finid
It's the effect of decades of advertisement. We've been duped into thinking
that white meat is normal and good, when white meat in chicken breast shows a
sedentary existence. Truly free range chickens do not have breast meat as
white as those from factory farms.

It's the same way we've been duped into believing that we need to eat that
bowl of cereal in the morning.

~~~
cr0sh
> We've been duped into thinking that white meat is normal and good

It's also why McDonald's McNuggets are now made with "all white meat" \-
except it isn't breast meat. Its a mixture of meat and meat by-products that
have been blended and bleached. It has a mouth-feel unlike either dark or
white meat chicken; it's a unique combo (I am not against McDs or their
nuggets, btw).

I remember when McNuggets first came out - there were three distinct shapes.
Only the "round" shape was white meat - and actual all-breast meat. The other
two shapes were dark meat. Today, there are only two of the same three shapes
that I recall, and both are of the blended "white" meat.

Which is a shame - I liked the variety more before.

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pvaldes
This is not a problem caused by antibiotics. Is a problem of genetic nature
that happens because broilers are inbreed for growing big and fast. The same
birds in true range with plenty of food would face exactly the same problem,
with or without antibiotics. They are too heavy and often tend to have cardiac
diseases, but they live short lives and are delicious so they are the most
sucessful bird in the planet.

On the other hand, we are a paradoxal species. Able to feel horrified by this,
whereas happily petting our distorted-faced bulldogs, persian cats, caesarean
born bullterriers, extra-dwarfed toy Yorkshires, ponies and toy mini pigs,
without any trace of moral conflict...

~~~
adaml_623
"the most successful bird on the planet" is an interesting line considering
that they are all killed and eaten.

I guess the obvious line of reasoning is to talk about how GDP is less than
perfect for measuring economic success, etc. Sometimes large numbers are not a
sign of success.

~~~
pvaldes
Not all are killed. Millions of captive chickens live much longer and peaceful
lives than its wild counterparts (They do not need to care for the danger of
being burned alive in an indonesian fireforest for example). Many laying and
pet hens die for natural causes after ten years or so roaming around some
garden or farm. This is a lot of sun-bathing, clucking and scratching time to
enjoy for a middle sized bird with plenty of predators that normally would not
reach its first birdday. Even broilers live longer than most wild chicks.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Agreed. Folks forget that the wild population, if stable, implies that _almost
all hatched chicks are horribly killed and eaten by predators in their first
year_.

Of course the moral issue of "should I cynically raise billions of birds
because they're tasty" is real.

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bambax
Brown meat is much much more delicious; why would anyone prefer white meat is
beyond me.

And the irony is that, in buying "heavy breasted chicken", customers pay for
something they can't consume (assuming chicken is priced by the pound in the
US).

~~~
sturmeh
Maybe because studies in the past two years suggest that red meat is actually
quite dangerous with frequent consumption.

~~~
milesrout
No they haven't. Red meat is not dangerous. Cooking red meat the way Americans
tend to (disgustingly fried everything) is, but disgustingly frying anything
is bad for you.

~~~
nsebban
People fry red meat ?!

I have spent much time in the US, but I think I have never seen that...in
restaurants at least. And I'm kinda glad I didn't.

~~~
soundwave106
It's not as common, but yes. One example found in Southern cuisine / Texas /
etc. is called either chicken fried steak or country fried steak. Although
often pan fried, some restaurants deep fry them.

~~~
mcguire
With mashed potatoes and white gravy[1], it's delicious, too.

[1] People who put brown gravy on chicken fried steak are heretics who should
be deep fried themselves.

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hellofunk
People just eat way too much chicken. The numbers of chicken consumed every
year in most western nations is astounding. And those poor birds, the way they
are packed to the point of not even being able to walk while they are raised,
it's really a lot more disgusting than the final product shown in this
article.

~~~
jerguismi
Do you think red meat is better? I've been trying to avoid red meat lately for
health reasons, and it is very difficult because for many restaurant major of
the items seem to contain red meat. I end up eating lots of chicken and fish.

Going vegetarian would be probably best...

~~~
problems
Chicken is also significantly better from a carbon emissions perspective too I
believe.

Going off
[http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/Greenhouse...](http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/Greenhouse20Gas20Emissions20from20Common20Proteins20and20Vegetables20.jpeg.650x0_q70_crop-
smart.jpg) chickens are far better than almost all other animals.

So if you're going to eat meat, chickens are a good choice in this way at
least.

~~~
hellofunk
I typically stick just to freshly caught fish from the coast. Looks like even
canned or farmed fish is just as emissions-bad as chicken.

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Devagamster
This is kinda terrifying. I can't put my finger on why exactly but dang.

~~~
x0x0
cows being raised for meat aren't exactly healthy either. Corn is not what
they're designed to eat, but it is what we feed them.

[http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/interview...](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/meat/interviews/pollan.html)

~~~
fil_a_del_fee_a
I just spent a half-hour reading this very well written article. Very cut and
dry explanation of the livestock system. Highly recommend everyone to read.

Interesting tidbit: "But a lot of it has to do with the way we grow our food,
and the fact that we mix 100 different cows in a single burger. We never used
to do that. The butcher used to take the scraps from that one animal and make
his hamburger right in front of your eyes. ... Now, you get one infected
carcass, and that meat can spread all around the country, because we have this
centralized national system."

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burfog
Answer: it's an oxygen shortage in the overly thick muscle, causing tissue
death

Solution: oxygen masks for the chickens

------
pillowkusis
if this disgusts you for moral/guilt reasons there is a good solution. Eat
less meat! You don't have to go full vegan.

I think people employ black and white thinking about this -- either I eat all
meat or I become vegetarian/vegan and eat no meat. That's hard, and you're
likely to fail (hard cutting to vegan would be quite difficult, regression
rates after a few months are sky high).

Instead, simply resolve to eat less meat. Make Thursdays meatless. Opt for the
vegetarian option when eating out. Slowly reduce your meat consumption to a
level you're happy with. Learn about meat alternatives (which have gotten
really, really good in the last few years).

If everyone in the US took one day a week to have no meat, the whole industry
would change dramatically. Baby steps!

~~~
gargravarr
If I wasn't vegetarian already, this probably would have done the trick!

------
nscalf
Certainly one of the weirder things I've seen on HN.

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andrewclunn
Your concern for animal welfare will never be enough for the animal rights
people (just read the other comments here).

~~~
lawik
Umm, I've seen plenty of balanced views in this thread. I'm a vegan, partially
for animal rights but I still encourage meat-eaters that are concerned to go
for the better stuff. I don't believe it is the best solution, but I applaud
anyone willing to attempt to make things better.

"the animal rights people" is a pretty broad brush, I know that quite a few
can be completely impossible to discuss the nuances with but honestly, there
are so many vegetarians for ethical reasons around that just don't say
anything or go "cool, that's better than industrial farming". I also encounter
a good part of meat-eaters that become incredible defensive and almost hostile
if they find out about my dietary choices.

Always frustrating to see black and white grouping when the truth is
incredibly nuanced.

~~~
JCharante
> I also encounter a good part of meat-eaters that become incredible defensive
> and almost hostile if they find out about my dietary choices.

Yeah after someone found out after kinda knowing them for a couple years they
said "Fuck You" and we haven't spoken them since then. I wonder what their
problem was ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯

------
enibundo
I have a solution, (downvotes are welcome), eat an organic and mostly
vegatarian diet.

~~~
alangpierce
From the guidelines:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

> Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downvote you or proclaim
> that you expect to get downvoted.

(I also don't think your statement is particularly controversial.)

~~~
enibundo
My bad, apparently they followed my advice anyways.

Jokes aside, eat more veggies for your health, the health of those poor little
things that are fed shit and antibiotics daily in very bad environements, and
last but not least for the health of the earth.

~~~
Dylan16807
Remind me what plants are fed, again?

~~~
enibundo
you don't get the end of chain thing do you ?

