

Do You Know a High-Achieving Student Kept From College Because of Money? - tokenadult
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/26/AR2009072602301.html

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quoderat
No, but I know many medium-achieving students who could have contributed a lot
more productively to society if they'd had the chance and the money to attend
college.

By focusing on only the high-end (and the low-end) we ignore what makes
America a great place to be.

The gifted will find a way. The untalented and those lacking willpower usually
won't, no matter what.

Everyone else needs a little help, help that actually matters.

~~~
tokenadult
I wonder how much students who are poor look in high school like medium-
achieving students when they would really be high-achieving students if they
were in a more resource-rich environment.

See

<http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf>

for an example of what I am concerned about.

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timwiseman
_"a great many gifted and motivated young people are excluded from college for
no other reason than their ability to pay, and we have failed seriously to
confront the problem."_

I can only think of two people who came somehwat closeclose to this
description, and they were weighed down by family obligations, not paying for
college per se.

I almost find it hard to believe in America that someone would be kept out of
college by the price of admission. Many grants and scholarships are need based
or partially need based, not to mention that many of the rest are achievement
based so the "High Achieving Student" discussed here would qualify for those
as well. Also, student loans are generally not hard to get.

Finally, if they could not finance it in other ways this "High Achieving"
student they could join the military. If you are active duty, 100% of tuition
is paid and your salary will easily handle books. The Gaurd programs differ by
state, but they pay most tuition. Also, if you accept a commitment ROTC will
pay.

If you need to support a family (such as having a child while still in high
school or being the primary caregiver for a sister after your parents died)
that might be a nearly insurmountable barrier, but aside from that I find it
hard to believe a "High Achiever" would not be able to get into college for
purely financial reasons.

~~~
tokenadult
_I can only think of two people who came somewhat close to this description_

I can think of quite a few of my contemporaries, and some young people a
little older than my oldest child, who had to trade down in quality of
university among all universities who admitted them because they couldn't
afford to go to the best university at which they were admitted.

I can't think of examples of exactly what Jay Mathews is asking about, but I
think he biases his question by assuming that poor students with low grades in
high school are not "motivated." They may simply be disliked by their
teachers.

~~~
timwiseman
I can understand that. I know many people who decided to go a step down in
prestige (quality of university education can be tricky, but I think most
people will agree on the level of prestige of an institution at least
roughly), my wife and I both included.

But not being able to afford an elite private school is very different from
not being able to afford a university education.

------
rdl
I dropped out of MIT due to money -- I'd received no financial aid and no
other assistance, and couldn't get loans (since I was under 18); I tried
working and consulting to pay, but ended up about $50k behind in "late tuition
payments". I had turned down full honors scholarships to other schools, mainly
because I really wanted to go to MIT.

Luckily this was 1998 and I left to go start a crypto ecash startup in the
Caribbean, first of several startups. I think 1 semester in a top school, then
dropping out to do startups, might be a better education than enduring 4 years
without really doing anything special. That said, I wish I had been able to
complete a degree; I am 30 now and sometimes think about ether going back
full-time to MIT, or doing a UK MBA, or taking classes at another school and
then either finishing there or returning to MIT.

In retrospect, ROTC might have been the best option, but there were a few
specific reasons I didn't do it at the time.

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slackenerny
Not directly. There are situations (at every top-notch institution, I think)
of sorts that all the candidates are excellent achievers, no matter what
measure.

Then there is a problem how to differentiate between them further.

This is where the concept of "fit" comes in, where the recruiting board tries
to enrich the "social experince" of this particular microsociety. For example,
thinking is, a group of physics graduate students living in the dorms may
enjoy a little improvised cello performance by one of them. This happened to
my friend. He had a very strong application but, no doubt equally strong,
cellist was choosen. My friend had to work part time for the greatest part of
the year to afford undergraduate studies at all and it never occured to him
that a cello, or any other extracurricular activity (for which he wouldn't
have time anyways) was that important to be a well-rounded physicist.

~~~
slackenerny
Sorry for this grammar. Hurts my own forgiving eyes.

------
kingkawn
Money considerations may influence kids long before we bother to measure
whether they're high-achieving or not.

------
pt
This organization seeks to help just these kind -- poor but brilliant
students.

<http://ffe.org/programs/eligibility-criteria.php>

------
sound2man
Yes, but they were not in a public school, but rather a small private school.
Mostly A's with a couple B's. Not too tragic though, as he has a better job
now with more room for growth than most of his peers that did get their BA's.

It's all about drive. If you have drive, you will succeed regardless of you
formal education. A motivated person will not remain ignorant, even though
they may not have the certification to prove it.

