
Scientists suspect a link between the digestive system and problems with sleep - devy
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/19/is-your-gut-keeping-you-awake-at-night
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DoreenMichele
Towards the end, this article has a bunch of random suggestions you could try.
I will caution readers that randomly trying stuff is about the worst way to do
this.

If you want to self experiment, at a minimum, start a food diary. Record what
you eat, when you eat it and track any health metrics you hope to change,
whether sleep or something else. Establish a baseline for your current normal.
Then try no more than one new thing every week or two to establish whether it
does anything and, if so, what effect it seems to have.

Supplements are easier to work with at the start because it is the best way to
try to isolate a factor. Dietary changes are much harder to understand because
they always involve at least two changes: the new food you are adding and the
discontinuation of whatever you used to eat. This always leaves the question
"Is the new food helping? Or is the effect from removing the old food?"

That's before getting into the issue that most things you eat are complicated
products containing multiple ingredients.

~~~
iamcasen
Exactly. It's further complicated by the fact that you really need to stick to
a change for 2 months or more to notice any lasting effects.

From what I've seen with folks struggling with SIBO and Candida among other
things was that cutting out sugar completely is probably the first and easiest
place to start. No sugar at all, especially added sugar like you might find in
a pasta sauce or other store-bought foods. Do that for 3 months straight and
then eat something with sugar after that. You'll probably feel sick.

~~~
nightfly
> cutting out sugar completely is probably the first and easiest place to
> start

This would represent a radical and complete change in diet in me and probably
many other people. Since it would mean having to change from most cheap
preprepared versions of common foods such as pasta sauce, like you mentioned,
and even regular store-bought bread. These foods would either more
considerably more expensive or time-intensive versions that don't include
sugar, or replacing them with completely unlike foods.

It's in no way an "easy" change, and involves so much alteration that I doubt
the significance of the "no sugar" component matters as much as the other
collateral changes.

~~~
toomuchtodo
It's actually pretty easy, from both a time and financial commitment. Check
out the sidebar links on
[https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/](https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/)

If you don't want to do food prep, or you don't care for traditional high fat,
moderate protein, low carb food options, you can get meal replacement shakes.

I prefer KetoChow, rotate through several different flavors, and it costs me
~$3/meal. It take 5-10 minutes of prep every 2-3 days (fill blender bottles
with heavy whipping cream, ketochow powder, water, shake, toss in fridge). At
5' 6", I went from ~180 lbs to ~155 lbs. I don't need to work out, I maintain
a healthy weight, and it's both affordable and non-time intensive.

Otherwise, cut breads, sugars, and liquid calories (regular soda & beer) out
of your diet. I know people who eat primarily meats, cheeses, and green
veggies, and they feel better than they ever have and quickly shed any excess
fat without exercise.

~~~
jackhack
KetoChow : basically just whey protein powder + some vitamins.

not significantly different from the bodybuilder protein shakes.

~~~
acct1771
Tell me more about the bioavailability of your "\+ vitamins", haha..

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LinuxBender
I can vouch for this.

I have always had sleep issues and over a long period of time and
experimenting, found that I could calm the bacteria by giving them the right
amount of fiber and simple proteins to work on, while avoiding sugar. If I
deprive them of nutrients, they release something into my blood that increases
anxiety. I have yet to figure out what this chemical is.

I used to think it was a blood sugar problem, but after a lot of testing,
determined my blood sugar was fine. It turns out that 700 trillion life forms
in the gut can wreak havoc if they are not taken care of.

And to think ... I said I don't want any pets. Turns out, I have 700 trillion
of them.

~~~
cpncrunch
Have you ruled out psychological factors (which are probably more likely)?
It's impossible to know for sure without doing a placebo controlled trial on
yourself.

I have found that removing HFCS from my diet (basically, fizzy pop) and eating
probiotic yogurt seems to mostly cure my mild IBS. I still get IBS due to
stress, but don't seem to get it during non-stressful daily life any more. Of
course, it still could be the placebo effect...it's hard to know for sure. It
never affected my sleep though. The only time I would get anxiety would be due
to an imminent bowel movement.

~~~
cjbillington
With the HFCS, maybe you have moderate fructose malabsorption. Something like
30% of people do, and reducing or eliminating fructose helps them.

~~~
cpncrunch
Yes, that's what I suspect. Even if it's just coincidence or placebo, fizzy
pop is pretty bad for health on many counts.

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cpncrunch
The article doesn't present any evidence at all, it's all just speculation.

~~~
rainieri
It's true. If you get parasites from a pet like a cat you'll find yourself
waking up at around 5 AM every day.

~~~
Finnucane
If you have a cat, you'll be waking up at 5 am every day.

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gt_
I am experiencing basically this right now. I am otherwise usually very
healthy but have been having digestive problems for about 6 months. I realized
last month that my newfound sleep problems seem to correlate with my stomach
upsets. It was not obvious but after realizing it, I got some meds from my
doctor for my stomach problem and my sleep problems went away as well!

My doctor is trying to play things safe and actually had me do a barium
swallow test at the hospital this morning. This required me to not take the
stomach medication for a few days and sure enough the sleep problems came
back!

One thing that freaks me out is I normally have a very healthy and balanced
diet. Still not sure where the stomach problems are coming from.

~~~
cosmic_shame
What medication were you prescribed?

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trhway
have just taken a SIBO breath test. First hand observed the rise of breath
hydrogen and methane. The biological machinery is that [bad overgrown]
bacteria in the gut produce the gas with some of the gas making into the blood
and after that into the lungs. That rise as usual coincided with small attack
of coughing, running nose and a bit of anxiety and loss of concentration (was
trying to work during the 3hr test). When it happens at night, it does makes
falling to sleep harder. Anyway, passed the test with flying colors :) - hit
78ppm hydrogen and 29ppm methane levels (at 40 and 60 minute marks, ie. before
colonic response, etc) where 20ppm of either alone is already enough for SIBO
diagnosis. So it isn't just imagination.

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AnatMl2
I've been experimenting for the last couple of months and tried almost
everything, what's suggested in the article. The best option for me was not
eating for a couple of hours before the bedtime and no sports (even the
relaxing yoga would keep me awake). Although it is individual and I have to
agree with the food diary suggestions: it is the best way to find out how your
body reacts to the specific foods.

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eli_gottlieb
Well, the "weight" on the parasympathetic nervous system is important for
sleep and other low-arousal states so... uh... yeah? I guess?

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foxyv
I used to have trouble sleeping then I found the secret that works best for my
body/brain. An hour on my bicycle riding up to the lake and I'll sleep like a
log. The hard part is not falling asleep after my ride.

No exercise and I don't get good sleep and have stomach and anxiety problems.
Go figure.

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gxs
Can anyone recommend a good probiotic product?

There are tons of them, and the article doesn't really mention anything
specifically.

~~~
Lewton
VSL#3 seems to be one of the few probiotic products with enough bacteria in it
to actually make a difference.

I seem to have used it with some success in calming down a bout of very nasty
Rosacea that -might- have been SIBO related.

Purely anecdotal, one of the worst parts about Rosacea is that it literally
changes with the wind (weather can have a huge effect), so tracking what works
or not is really hard.

~~~
hyencomper
While researching probiotics I came across a recent study that has found
increased obesity in response to VSL #3.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29493105](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29493105).
While I do not have any details on the study methodology, I think it is best
to be cautious while trying out supplements.

~~~
Lewton
Thanks for the link!

I definitely agree, gut flora is no joke! And I don’t recommend messing around
with it unless you have something pretty serious you want to fix

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throwawaysecops
Did a retreat. We ate at 6AM and 11AM. No food after Noon. Fasting for 18
hours a day, as we were designed. No stomach problems, felt great, real and
regular.

Problem is, we eat a feast each and every night and were never meant to. Our
success is killing us. Slowly and in a variety of horrific manners.

~~~
keyle
"as we were designed".

Sorry what does that mean? Do you think that 50 odd generations before us
aren't changing our DNA with habit changes, while living in a different
country for 2 years does?

Also we were designed?

~~~
throwawaysecops
Do you find asking stupid questions productive? Honestly curious about that
one. Also, this question I ask is a leading one. Know the difference.

Design can be considered "doing" by an organism in its change for survivial.
Our "doing" made us be efficient with food. It's not like it was laying around
or something back when we evolved, like it is nowadays.

Doesn't matter if we have an excess of food laying around today, DNA-wise. It
takes generations to evolve new organisms that can deal with glut or scarcity.
We are evolved the way we are and unlike the dork who wants citation about it,
you aren't going to get what you want just by demanding it.

Only doing will show the truth. Talking about it is pointless and
counterproductive to the end goal of reality, which is basically the efficient
search for interesting.

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ohiovr
My gut is telling me it is time to consume about 500 calories just like my
medicine literature says I should have done before I took it. If I don't eat I
will have to listen to my gut churning and growling all night long.

