
Pay Phones in NYC Will Become Free Wi-Fi Hot Spots - anigbrowl
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/18/nyregion/pay-phones-in-new-york-city-will-become-free-wi-fi-hot-spots.html
======
drcode
Something tells me the will actually be ""free"" Wi-Fi Hot Spots.

(i.e. if you have 2 valid forms of ID proving you live 4 blocks from the hot
spot and you are willing to spend 5 minutes filling out web forms and you only
want to visit one of 50 sanctioned websites and you are willing to receive
notification emails and your computer is Windows 8.1 but doesn't have the
incompatible service pack installed that the java applet crashes on and you
happen to catch it on a day when it's working and you can get the webbeams
login url to redirect properly and you don't accidentally scroll down while
the login page is loading and you click through the screens about the new
street sweeping schedule you will be able to browse the web for 17.5 minutes.)

~~~
eksith
That's extreme. This is just a swing toward turning internet access into
utilities like electricity and water which are available without being tied to
your residence. You still have public street lights and public water fountains
outside your home. Likewise, internet is slowly moving away form this "thing"
you always have to pay for to stay connected.

Verizon, TWC, Optimum, Comcast et al require that you have an account with
them to use their hotspots. But you don't need an account with ConEd to be
able to read your newspaper or book out on the street. This is where internet
is headed.

~~~
Shivetya
McDonalds, Starbucks, and many other private companies, all do not require an
account, many don't even require you buy anything.

Counting street lights as electricity is a bit of reach. Last I checked to
have electrical service or water service I actually had to have an account.
After all, where would they provide it?

------
epic9x
Cites $200 million to build, which seemed high until you see they're actually
giant neon advertising signs too:
[http://www.link.nyc/assets/downloads/LinkNYC-Media-
Kit.pdf](http://www.link.nyc/assets/downloads/LinkNYC-Media-Kit.pdf)

The city gets guaranteed profit of $20 million annual with projected rev share
of much higher than that. Solid deal.

~~~
warfangle
It seems high until you realize they're putting in 10,000 of them. That's only
$2k per kiosk - less than a high end gaming machine.

~~~
warfangle
^- please don't upvote this :) I was a zero off. They're $20k each.

Which considering the infrastructure upgrades involved is still pretty
impressive. I doubt there's a fiber line to each of the payphone locations.

------
conorh
I worked on a project with Verzion to wifi enable NYC payphones in 2003 [1], I
think we did around 150 in the end. I worked on backend software and then
eventually driving around the city in a Verizon van debugging hotspots. The
system didn't work very well then - most payphone booths were not in good
areas for using wifi, there wasn't enough coverage and there was quite a high
failure rate for the equipment (and sometimes it was stolen). I like the idea
of having other services available in the booth though, and perhaps it will
work better now that everyone has wifi equipped phones and doesn't need to
pull out their laptop to use it.

[1]
[http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/14/technology/14NET.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/14/technology/14NET.html)

------
wipash
Spark in NZ has rolled the Wifi access point idea out all across Auckland, and
in patches across the rest of NZ.

[https://www.spark.co.nz/shop/mobile/whyultramobile/wifi.html](https://www.spark.co.nz/shop/mobile/whyultramobile/wifi.html)

~~~
kalleboo
I think it's pretty common around the world - the Swedish telco converted
their phone booths to Wifi hotspots back in 2007. Cheap fast LTE has taken
over though and they're finally removing all phone booths by 2015.

~~~
otoburb
I'm surprised they're removing wifi enabled phone booths. WiFi offload is
growing in importance in congested mobile network regions[1], although perhaps
phone booths don't necessarily have fast enough network links to meaningfully
offload enough load (yet).

If these type of pilot projects pan out then cities could eye this as a
potential revenue stream if somebody isn't already paying for phone booth
street locations on a recurring basis.

Although there's still some way to go before we reach clean WiFi & cell tower
call hand-offs, just having the initial ability to make calls over WiFi via
the 'branded' voice application will be huge for traditional wireless
carriers, although also opens up the playing field for urban-only WiFi
carriers.[2]

The 'branded' voice application on your smartphones will soon be just that
when VoLTE is deployed more widely[1]. VoLTE = Voice over LTE, which could
just as easily be Voice over WiFi. The upcoming battle for which app you
launch when you want to make voice calls is slowly creeping up on us, since
voice is still one of the stickiest phone applications.

[1] [http://www.spotonnetworks.com/rcr-wireless-discusses-wifi-
of...](http://www.spotonnetworks.com/rcr-wireless-discusses-wifi-offload-and-
where-the-carriers-stand/)

[2] [http://www.bna.com/wifi-once-
lifeline-n17179890780/](http://www.bna.com/wifi-once-lifeline-n17179890780/)

------
josefresco
Does anyone else think this is (cool but) 10 years too late? I would like to
see a model where your phone/device seamlessly connects to these hotspots
without the current (very manual and frustrating) wi-fi connect process.

For example, I'm walking down the street, pull out my device and connect to
this wifi hostspot. Does the hotspot now work _everywhere_ in NYC? Or do I
need to connect to each hostspot each time? Will it remember me or will I need
to re-authenticate on a regular basis similar to how TV providers grant access
within mobile apps?

~~~
softdev12
but late than never. i'm guessing this starts to expand to other cities - but
instead of replacing payphones, they will start building new hubs at street
corners or other public spots that are currently empty.

------
spacefight
Free means they setup tracking locations to scan your MAC as you roam the
city. Bandwith itself is cheap these days.

Someone is paying that "free" stuff, always. Oh, and the 20M in profits must
come from somewhere, right?

------
kapkapkap
If you live in a walk-up building and there is a payphone/hotspot on your
block, would this actually allow you to cancel your internet and exclusively
use this for your Wifi? (Article says 150ft range...)

~~~
comrh
If you considered the reliability and security concerns. It would be
interesting in terms of anonymity though.

~~~
coralreef
Wouldn't your speed be throttled down anyway

------
knowaveragejoe
Another opportunity to collect marketing data(at the least).

~~~
unicornporn
Probably. Getting a VPN provider could be a solution for the few who knows
about such solutions. If all ports but 80 and 443 isn't blocked that is.

~~~
ynniv
A VPN provider won't protect your MAC address from being physically tracked.

~~~
ShaneOG
IIRC iOS 8 performs MAC address randomization for just this reason.

~~~
tekromancr
No, unfortunately the MAC randomization seems to be pretty ineffective. IIRC,
it only happens when the phone is sleeping, and has been for several minutes.
[http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/26/more-details-on-how-
ios-8s-mac...](http://9to5mac.com/2014/09/26/more-details-on-how-ios-8s-mac-
address-randomization-feature-works-and-when-it-doesnt/)

------
CWIZO
On a related note; London is transforming the payphones into free charging
stations.

------
bko
>Administration officials framed the move as an extension of Mr. de Blasio’s
focus on inequality. Maya Wiley, counsel to the mayor, said low-income people,
particularly blacks and Latinos, relied disproportionately on cellphone
browsing to get online. And data charges can add up.

Free wi-fi is great and all but I feel that programs that mostly benefit the
upper middle class are constantly being passed off by politicians as
benefiting the lower class. From what I see, smart phones ownership definitely
skews to the wealthy, although higher for African American and Hispanic [0].
Is there something I'm missing here?

[0] [http://www.pewinternet.org/data-trend/mobile/cell-phone-
and-...](http://www.pewinternet.org/data-trend/mobile/cell-phone-and-
smartphone-ownership-demographics/)

~~~
Someone1234
It skews to the young: 83% for ages 18-29. That's a hard figure to ignore
(although you HAVE to to make your point). Seems like for older people they
own smartphones if they're in careers which might require one (e.g. office
work, where college+ and $50K+ are more common).

For young people almost "everyone" owns a smartphone. Plus the cost is fairly
low if you avoid the big four carriers and buy direct[0]. Smartphones aren't
"premium" anymore and haven't been for quite a few years. Yet some people
continue to talk about them like they are (and "HDTVs" and "cable").

[0] [http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-Quadband-Android-Touch-
Screen...](http://www.amazon.com/Unlocked-Quadband-Android-Touch-
Screen/dp/B00NFL88GE/)

------
plumeria
Which company is building these kiosks?

~~~
benjaminlhaas
The responsible consortium is CityBridge, which is made up of Titan, Control
Group, Qualcomm, and Comark. [http://www.link.nyc/](http://www.link.nyc/)

------
davidholmesnyc
I believe this is a step in the right direction.

------
tessierashpool
this is a very positive development in a year full of bad news. kudos NY and
congrats New Yorkers.

------
njharman
TIL there are still payphones!?

------
stevengg
anyone else sick of seeing pay walled links on the front page of HN?

~~~
serf
Yeah, it's obnoxious to assume that the rest of the community would be a
member of 'the club' when linking articles.

~~~
anigbrowl
I don't have an NYT subscription or use any sort of workaround to access NYT
pages, so I am not a member of any 'club'. You can view something like 20
stories a month before they ask you to subscribe, and I don't feel bad about
posting an interesting story from a site that uses a paywall once or twice
month.

~~~
serf
> and I don't feel bad about posting an interesting story from a site that
> uses a paywall once or twice month.

I don't want you to feel bad, I just want you to know that I think that it's
obnoxious, and not very considerate towards others to expect them to bob-and-
weave through pay-walls.

> You can view something like 20 stories a month before they ask you to
> subscribe

Sure, that's how it is at the moment. Next month it'll be ten views, a few
months after 3 views, and so on, (effectively further reducing the archival
worth of news publication links)

Also, how do you know that I haven't yet exceeded my monthly allotment?

Posting paid content excludes the poor who either lack the know-how to do so
or refuse to side-step the pay-walls from discussion of the article until
someone either copy/pastes the important parts or a freely available source is
linked, and I just want people to be aware of that.

~~~
alexqgb
Wait, you think people shouldn't post and discuss interesting stuff because
you're to cheap to help underwrite the (very reasonable) cost of decent
journalism?!

I'm sorry, but _this is a news site_. People come here to read and discuss
relevant news. And while this may come as news to you, those articles don't
write themselves for free.

You want to lecture somebody on etiquette? Go find a journalist and tell them
how "rude" they're being by expecting payment for their work. Find their
editors, while you're at it, and see if they're willing to discuss their
"entitlement issues". If you haven't had your head ripped off maybe you can
tell us how the conversation went.

