

New Data Science Certificate Program - swGooF
http://datascience101.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/new-data-science-certificate-program/

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eykanal
Why is this the top link on HN? There are already numerous courses available
that will allow you to learn this stuff for free from very highly ranked
universities, including Stanford [1] and CMU [2], among others. This will just
teach you similar things while also taking your money and giving you a
"certificate".

I guess if you want to enter a new field and you need to have some certifiable
expertise, this _may_ be a good option. That being said, if the field you plan
on entering really does require some documented education, having this
certificate will not even put you in the same playing field as those with
actual degrees in the field, not to mention those with advanced degrees.

[1]: <https://www.coursera.org/course/ml>

[2]: <http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom/10701_sp11/lectures.shtml>

~~~
dbecker
The Coursera courses are excellent, but Coursera, Udacity, CMU, etc. are
offering a different set of courses than the UW progam. For instance, I don't
think any of the current players are offering Hadoop courses... In general, it
looks like the UW program is more technology-specific and applied than the
other programs.

Personally, I'd prefer the less technology-specific topics already on offer.
But, my employer would be much more likely to hire someone with UW's course-
mix. So, there should be some demand for that.

And, if we are talking about a career decision, $3,000 is small potatoes
compared to the value of getting the right topics.

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EzGraphs
When I hear "Scientist" I tend to think "PhD level work." Graduate level work
in math, Comp Sci and statistics is not something that can be readily
compressed into a 9 month program without substantial prerequisites.

Are today's "data scientists" really just software devs who have specialized
in digging around in data and using various data mining algorithms with only a
superficial understanding of their inner workings?

~~~
Homunculiheaded
While I'm sure we have different definitions of "superficial understanding"
one thing I've noticed as I've gotten more interested in ML/datamining during
the final stages of my master's in CS is that solving real world problems with
these techniques is often a very different experience than deeply
understanding the theory behind them.

For example I couldn't implement an SVM library from scratch to save my life,
but I do understand what it means to be a 'maximum margin' classifier, from a
high level how the 'kernel trick' works, and why you would tune regularization
and cost parameters. However this knowledge has been enough to help me in
quite a few interesting problems.

Reading accounts of how others have solved real world data mining issues it's
amazing how often a very simple model will do the job, and also how often,
even among more serious researches, there's a bit of intuition in finding the
right combination of parameters, and lots of trial and error in searching for
which model/blend of models really does the job.

I think there's a lot of room for more people approaching data mining with the
'hacker' mentality. Sure you don't want 'data scientists' using a randomForest
whose eyes glaze over when you mention the word "ensemble", or someone who
couldn't explain in plain terms what a "maximum margin hyperplane" is. But,
there is a growing space for practitioners in this space, that aren't
necessarily as strong in the theory as people working in the pure research
space.

~~~
b_emery
Slightly off topic, but I just completed the online _learning from data_
course offered by Cal Tech (for free), and am pleased to say that 1) I
understand this thread, and 2) have implemented an SVM starting with a
quadratic programming package (not quite from scratch!). I highly recommend
the class for anyone interested, a re-run of the course is starting soon:
<http://work.caltech.edu/telecourse.html>

~~~
swGooF
good to know, thanks for sharing

------
postit
"opportunism 101"

I love this explanation on quora btw. [http://www.quora.com/Career-Advice/How-
do-I-become-a-data-sc...](http://www.quora.com/Career-Advice/How-do-I-become-
a-data-scientist)

------
Alex3917
Most likely Udacity will have all those classes for free within another year
anyway, with the opportunity to get a certificate that's actually widely
recognized. Not trying to knock the UW program, but going to college to learn
CS just seems like it's going to become really unnecessary really fast.

It's funny, on the NYC subways the city has now put up ads warning kids
against going to college, and telling them to call the hotline to ask if the
college is credible before enrolling.

~~~
aswanson
Wow. Are the warnings targeting college in general, or the diploma mill types?

~~~
rprospero
Considering that it's the subway, I'm guessing that it's probably the diploma
mills. The last time I took the subway, which, granted, was three years ago,
the place was plastered with ads for diploma mills.

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EzGraphs
A more accurate headline: Get a Certificate in Data Science in 9 months.

~~~
swGooF
That is probably true, but I think the goal of the certificate would be to
become a data scientist.

~~~
brianobush
"scientist" usually implies a doctoral degree in some field.

~~~
arethuza
I've known quite a few people who had _very_ responsible day-to-day jobs
conducting scientific testing who didn't have PhDs. I'm not sure I would
exclude them from the category of "scientists".

Is science only science if it is aimed towards publishable research (which is
clearly the academic view)?

~~~
brianobush
Scientists communicate and leave archive quality research by way of
publications. Anyone can "do" science, but I think it is a bit unfair to
arbitrarily level-up smart people to the same level as those that go through
years of training?

The lab techs that do scientific testing under the direction of a PI, they do
science, right? Does that mean we need to relabel their badges to Scientist?

~~~
arethuza
That just sounds like a debate about status - which I appreciate is very
important _inside_ academia but far less so outside.

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forgotAgain
Looking at the UW description of the program, it is assumed you are already a
software engineer or statistician. This isn't for someone walking in off the
street with no background in the subject.

------
probably
If it wasn't offered under the auspices of UW, I would have thought it a
scam...

~~~
javert
Me too at first, but that's because the link goes to a 3rd party blogger, not
the actual program being offered.

~~~
espinchi
Which, by the way, is <http://www.pce.uw.edu/certificates/data-science.html>

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mmaunder
"...the cost is around $3000" and the primary benefit seems to be you get to
call yourself a "Data Scientist". There are tons of free resources online for
"hadoop, NoSQL, machine learning, statistics, graph algorithms..".

~~~
paulgb
That's true, but I find the one thing missing from learning online is
curriculum: I can find a ton of resources to learn a specific thing, but
because I don't know what I don't know, I don't know where to start. It's also
hard to judge the quality of the material without being versed in the subject.
This sort of structured course adds value in both of those areas. Whether
that's worth $3k is a matter of opinion.

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pwendell
You can actually become a data scientist in 9 seconds because the term has no
meaning.

~~~
jonsen
Well for danes it would mean computer science. In 1966 Peter Naur coined the
word datalogi (data-logy) which has since been used in danish for the subject
computer science.

------
stfu
For a graduate certificate $3000 is actually quite pricey. At smaller
Universities in Europe it is possible to earn a MSc in Business Intelligence &
Data Mining via distance for just €4000
(<http://www.itb.ie/StudyatITB/bn518BID.html>). Plus their focus almost
exclusively on open source software such as RapidMiner.

~~~
GoodIntentions
I looked at that link and am interested.

8 hours lecture online per week + whatever offline work, for 4 semesters. That
format, at minimum passes the "sniff test". I think four semesters at that
rate is long enough to legitimately teach the content.

My only question now is how well received is it by the world at large? Has
anyone hands on experience with ITB?

~~~
stfu
From what I understand, the degree is more or less a structured way to become
really versatile in RapidMiner. The relationship between the software
development team and those teaching the degree is very close (
<http://rapidminerresources.com/index.php?page=training> /
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapidMiner> ). Therefore I suspect the core
motivation for those choosing this degree is to reach a high level of
proficiency in that particular software by studying with one of its
developers, and earning on the way an MSc from a state university. It is a
legitimate university, but don't expect any employer going wild about it.

Just as a disclaimer: I have not relationship with ITB or RapidMiner. A while
ago I played around with the software because some of the tutorials are really
interesting and very accessible for someone like me who lacks a deep
statistical understanding(i.e. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXIKydgGbYk>).

~~~
cheriot
This prospect makes me more interested. Learning theory is nice, but I'm
interested in these topics primarily because I'm interested in the data and
that requires proficiency in a good tool.

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gtani
I like UDub even tho I never went there (in fact i'm headed there right now)
but I really hope they enforce the stated minimal program qualifications, i.e.
applicants show aptitude in math, engineering, database design, programming,
or the other thing slisted:

[http://www.pce.uw.edu/certificates/data-science/downtown-
sea...](http://www.pce.uw.edu/certificates/data-science/downtown-seattle-
autumn-2012/)

~~~
swGooF
That is great point. Enforcing the enrollment qualifications can increase the
quality of the content.

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eshvk
Nice, I should have spent some time doing this instead of working through
Axler and Feller through my undergrad and grad school.

</sarcasm>

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agscala
What advantages in life does having a certificate yield? Would an employer
really care if I had this certificate vs if I learned it on my own?

~~~
randomdata
Like anything, you cannot predict the future. You might find your perfect
dream job as a result of having the certificate. You might just as easily miss
out on the opportunity to take your perfect dream job because you're busy
acquiring the certificate. Anything can happen.

My personal advice is to ignore any future advantages that may or may not come
as a result and focus on doing it because you simply want to do it. If you
enjoyed the process and feel fulfilled at the end, it doesn't matter what may
come as a result. If you need to work hard to sell yourself on the idea of
doing it, it is probably not worth doing.

