
A Plague of Helicopters In New York - prostoalex
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/a-plague-of-helicopters-is-ruining-new-york.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur
======
mschuster91
> And if the impact on the environment and on quality of life aren’t enough to
> spur action, consider the security risks. Each day, hundreds of tourists are
> recruited off the street, whisked past a light security “wanding,” with no
> X-ray machine or background check, and loaded onto an idling helicopter with
> no barrier between passenger and pilot. These helicopters then fly within
> 1,000 feet of the most densely populated urban area in the country.

Seriously, can we please stop abusing "terrorism fear" in each and every
discussion? This is precisely what terrorists want.

~~~
blfr
We could also stop the "this is what terrorists want". They usually want a
caliphate or an independent Northern Elbonia, not scare you into avoiding
tourist attractions.

~~~
morgante
They want you to be afraid. Without fear, terrorism is a useless military
strategy.

~~~
blfr
Without fear terrorism is a perfectly serviceable strategy. All terrorists
need to do is create enough disruption to make it cheaper to give them what
they want. IRA would often issue warnings about their attacks.

~~~
danellis
> All terrorists need to do is create enough disruption to make it cheaper to
> give them what they want.

They won't get what they want because of something that happened, but rather
because of the fear of it happening again. So yes, fear.

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dtornabene
I spent a couple of months in NY and NJ, right on the Hudson, just this last
year, Oct-> Dec. I was blown away at the amount of helicopter traffic. If
you're in NJ, there's a _beautiful_ public area running roughly from West NY
down to Weehawken. Monuments to military figures, veterans in general, the
dueling grounds where Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton fought, all on cliffs
overlooking the Hudson with exquisite views of Manhattan (better imho than
from Manhattan to NJ). I used to go walking there everyday. And everyday, the
entire time, helicopters were buzzing up and down the Hudson. It was surreal.
I wish I could capture how surreal it was. You might come away from that
article with a bit of schadenfreude, "NY and noise, shocking" or "bourgeois
complain of noise, news at 11" but seriously, it is insane how constant the
helicopters are. And I'm from a small Texas town with _two_ airports where it
seems that everyone who breaks into the millionaire class is contractually
obligated to buy a Cessna or a Piper.

~~~
cylinder
Same with Governors Island. You can't use the entire eastern side to relax
because the helicopters are going nonstop. It's infuriating!

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rl3
The technology to make quiet helicopters has been around for a long time.[0]
Unfortunately its military utility seems to have prevented it from being
apllied in commercial aviation until recently. That said, the commercial
sector is making progress.[1]

If NYC implemented some sort of noise reduction regime and/or retrofit program
it would help. Whatever they have now probably isn't aggressive enough.

> _Each day, hundreds of tourists are recruited off the street, whisked past a
> light security “wanding,” with no X-ray machine or background check, and
> loaded onto an idling helicopter with no barrier between passenger and
> pilot._

The author must have taken that scene in _The Dictator_ to heart.[2]

Seriously though, doing some invasive TSA-style searches won't help; all bad
actors need in that situation is their bodies. The best defense in this case
is the instincts of the pilots.

[0] [https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-cia-built-a-special-
hel...](https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-cia-built-a-special-helicopter-
to-sneak-into-north-vietnam-b1bb0ea35a7b)

[1] [http://www.wired.com/2010/02/eurocopter-moves-one-step-
close...](http://www.wired.com/2010/02/eurocopter-moves-one-step-closer-to-
whisper-mode/)

[2]
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnszgkE3O8g](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnszgkE3O8g)

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amelius
Now imagine how it will be when Amazon unleashes its delivery drones over the
city.

~~~
the8472
would those run on electric or combustion engines?

~~~
mikeyouse
The engines are loud but the prop noise is the really noisy part.. In that
regard it doesn't matter the power source, if you've been near Phantoms or any
other 'drones' you've heard how obnoxious they can be.

~~~
the8472
it would still eliminate the pollution aspect.

also, aren't drones generally higher-pitched than regular helis? as far as I
know higher frequencies are more strongly attenuated by air.

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stretchwithme
This is really why flying cars will never be a thing. That and I don't want
Doc Brown running out of fussionable materials over my house.

The future of transportation is moving it all underground in densely populated
areas, We need to free up the land for humans to walk and cycle and skate. And
free up the sky for the birds.

Yes, without robotic construction to build cheaply underground, that is an
expensive proposition. But the alternatives have a lot of costs too, many of
which are borne by those who don't reap the benefits.

~~~
mschuster91
> Yes, without robotic construction to build cheaply underground, that is an
> expensive proposition.

That's not a perfect solution either: all the rock you dig out has to go
somewhere. Dump it in the ocean and you destroy the sea life. Dump it on the
country side and you'll have NIMBY squads in arms.

~~~
Symbiote
You just need to plan where you put the spoil. There's plenty of ruined shore
than can benefit.

London used the spoil from the most recent tunnel to make a 680ha wetland /
nature reserve. There's some pictures at the bottom:

[http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrails-final-
sh...](http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrails-final-shipment-of-
earth-arrives-at-wallasea-island)

~~~
zimpenfish
> The RSPB will require more than 10 million tonnes of excavated material to
> create the reserve and is currently seeking partners to provide the
> remaining 7 million tonnes.

If Crossrail is only providing 3M tonnes from 42km of tunnels, where on earth
do the RSPB think they're going to get another 7M from?

------
ilyanep
I have to say I'm a little bit low on sympathy. Since when has anyone moved to
New York City for the quiet?

~~~
chasing
I hate this weird condescending attitude about New York City. "NYC's a loud
filthy crime trap. Everyone knows it. How dare people try to improve things."

Generally speaking NYC is loud because of things people do. If we can reduce
the amount of noisy shit happening in the city, then yes, it'll be quieter and
a better place to live.

People in large cities are allowed to demand a decent quality-of-life.

~~~
cylinder
And there are still some very quiet areas in Manhattan. Financial District is
one of them at night.

~~~
chasing
And to extend your point:

NYC != Midtown Manhattan

Generally when people bitch about NYC in some kind of stereotypical way,
they're complaining about Midtown. The majority of New Yorkers neither live
in, work in, nor spend much time in Midtown Manhattan.

~~~
gclaramunt
Nor they live in the Hudson waterfront,where the article locates the source of
noise pollution. Since most of them live in the other boroughs, I'm pretty
sure there are things with more impact to increase the quality of living...

~~~
chasing
I think if you follow the thread you'll see that I was responding to ilyanep's
derisive comment about NYC as a whole being somehow unworthy of improvement.

Yes, the article refers to something that affects a relatively small number of
New Yorkers.

~~~
gclaramunt
yeah, I expanding on what you said, not arguing against it :)

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woodruffw
I grew up in this neighborhood, and it really is a nuisance. There are very
few quiet stretches along the Hudson river (thanks to the West Side Highway),
and those that aren't directly next to the road are now constantly swarmed
with helicopters.

Since the helicopter port is directly on the river, I've also seen plenty of
tourists play leapfrog through the highway traffic (a death wish in midtown)
and promptly run into cyclists and joggers on the shared path in front of the
port.

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jedberg
Once again another problem that could be solved by a carbon tax that forces
businesses to bear their external costs.

Even the staunchest Libertarian should be in support of a carbon tax, given
that one of the planks of the platform is to protect the environment from harm
[0]

[https://www.lp.org/platform](https://www.lp.org/platform) (Section 2.2)

~~~
product50
Not true. Noise pollution is part of the challenge here - which carbon tax
won't help solve.

~~~
jedberg
That's a fair point. A carbon tax would probably be enough to push the price
above where most people would do it, but there is no reason not to institute a
noise tax as well.

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bww
The author appears to labor under the delusion that policy in New York City –
and Manhattan in particular – is made with the intention of benefiting those
of us who live here.

If that were actually the case then the streets and skies in general would not
be managed to the end of maximizing vehicular throughput at the expense of
essentially everything else.

------
oldmanjay
A plague of hyperbole ruined journalism decades ago but people keep putting up
with it.

~~~
vonklaus
It is a byproduct of agenda first journalism preaching into an echo chamber of
self aggrandizing pricks. Take the 'political correctness' movement for
example, whether you agree or disagree with the sentiment, it is a nich
marketing ploy that attracts a demographic that is highly invested and
passionate about an agenda and uses it as a magnet. The people attracted by
this will either have a high chance of conversion (down a marketing funnel) or
will be so put off they will drive it viral through controversy.

Often, anti-factual fear mongering and scare amd shame tactics are featured
prominently in these articles.

it isn't a question of putting up with it. Manufacturing this content is
nearly effortless so it happens all over the place for many diverse issues.

------
morgante
Someone really doesn't like helicopters.

I, personally, have never even noticed them. It really seems like a huge non-
issue.

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biot
The solution is to mandate explicit maximum noise levels and pollution
emissions and budget for random, mandatory testing with large financial
penalties for noncompliance. This, in turn, will greatly increase costs to the
tour operators in order to comply. If it's still a viable business for tour
operators when they have to internalize the costs, then the show goes on and
tourists pay for the luxury. If not, the problem solves itself.

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robgibbons
I hate to say it, but this sort of comes with living/traveling in New York (or
any major industrial city). You're probably not living there for the natural
spaces and silent quietude. There comes at a certain point some tradeoff
between isolation and security.

~~~
product50
There is an expectation that living in the city will be more noisy/less
private but to say large motors spewing tons of gases outside our windows is
part of the experience is really stretching it.

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num3ric
A plague of helicopters is ruining Hawaii. We expect New York to be noisy.

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ck2
If you live or visit New York City, helicopters are the least causing noise
and air pollution.

------
WalterSear
Ruined! Ruined!

(FYI: the original link title described how helicopters were ruining New York)

~~~
acheron
"8.4 Million New Yorkers Suddenly Realize New York City Terrible Place to
Live"

[http://www.theonion.com/article/84-million-new-yorkers-
sudde...](http://www.theonion.com/article/84-million-new-yorkers-suddenly-
realize-new-york-c-18003)

