
I'm Obsessed with San Francisco's Bunk-Bed Craigslist Ads - wyclif
http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/09/im-obsessed-with-san-franciscos-bunk-bed-craigslist-ads/407281/
======
bsaul
Gives me an idea for audacious and fearless entrepreneurs : go start a new
city and make it the new high tech center of the world.

Actually, it's an obsession many countries had for the last 25 years : create
the new silicon valley. Nobody has ever succeeded.

Now, another idea : instead of making this city in the real world, just create
it virtually on the web. With all the people working from remote places, the
physicial location doesn't really matter that much anymore... You'll need
online universities, research labs, and places to hang out and meet people.
That would be a fun project.

~~~
mahmud
Tony Hsieh, founder of Zappos, is trying to turn Vegas into just that. Wish
him luck!

[http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/350-mill...](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/350-million-
might-not-be-enough-to-save-las-vegas/386213/)

~~~
baby
Arg... why Vegas? I would start that somewhere in the
philippins/thailand/indonesia...

~~~
mahmud
Ok.

~~~
baby
Good food. Great weather. Everything is cheap.

I don't see the point moving SF to the middle of the desert really.

~~~
reustle
As one of many developers here in south Asia, we agree with you :)

------
k__
When I learned, that "roommate" for students in the US really meant a person,
that had her bed in the same room as you, I was totally baffled. I just
thought this was the US word for flatmate till then.

Why would anyone over the age of 13 want to share a room with another person?
of the same gender? for many years?

I never saw this here in Germany. Just hostels do this kind of stuff.

In the student-homes the minimum you get is one own room.

I think such things are even forbidden by law, in Germany.

~~~
Mithaldu
As a fellow german i found this out long ago: Different architecture.
Americans tend to build less multi-story apartment buildings, and more small
one-family buildings, so the density of available housing per mile is really
low even in settled areas, compared to the average german city.

Look at this:
[https://www.google.de/search?q=suburban+hell&tbm=isch](https://www.google.de/search?q=suburban+hell&tbm=isch)

~~~
rorykoehler
It's true what you say but having spent a reasonable amount of time in Asia I
always wonder why we don't build higher here in Berlin. There is a huge
housing shortage and they wanted to build apartments on Tempelhoferfeld. That
is just absurd when there is tons of prime but underutilized real estate on
Köpenickerstrasse. It would probably be possible to completely (albeit
temporarily) relieve Berlins housing crisis by building up the derelict areas
along the river with 30+ level towers. That way it would be possible to
preserve the pristine park and semi-wild greenery that helps make Berlin such
a wonderful place to live.

~~~
Mithaldu
At a guess: Because Berlin's housing market is very cheap and prices can't be
easily raised, so there isn't much money available for building up.

~~~
rorykoehler
I'm not an expert but is it really more expensive to build up rather than out
given the state of technology today? Surely the cost of land alone is enough
of an incentive to build up? Also Berlin's real estate market is increasing in
price steadily. There is huge competition for every rental flat on the market
inside the ring. This seems like a good opportunity to increase volume to meet
demand as would happen in a perfect market. I would imagine the increase in
volume (and the revenue that comes with it) would alone be worth building up?

------
bko
I'm not from the area so forgive my ignorance but, is it really that bad or
are these just very in demand areas? Can you work in the area albeit with a
longer commute for a reasonable price?

I'm from New York and people complain about real estate prices here as well.
It is undoubtedly very expensive in Manhattan (small 1-br for $4k in nice
building) but that's only in Manhattan. You can easily find rent for less than
$2k if you're willing to increase your commute from ~30-40 minutes to ~60-75
minutes. I know people living in suburbs of New Jersey (Pal Park, Fort Lee) as
well as suburbs of Queens or Bronx for even less than that.

~~~
jwmerrill
If you value your time at $50 per hour, a 60 minute commute twice a day costs
$1900 per month (assuming you commute 230 days a year). And this doesn't count
the direct monetary cost of the commute. Different people value their time
differently, but it's worth doing this calculation consciously.

~~~
ryanmonroe
>a 60 minute commute twice a day costs $1900 per month

Only if you're comparing it to a 0 minute commute, which isn't realistic.

~~~
Tycho
You could have a five minute commute on foot, in which case it's more just
much needed fresh air and daylight.

------
dreen
These bunk beds look OK. As a young programmer in London I lived in hostels
for a while, with 4-story bunk beds crammed by the dozen in a small room. I
remember it rather fondly, free breakfast, new people to talk to every day,
walking distance to work in the centre... damp was a serious problem though.

------
mikekchar
I suppose it depends what you want. I have a colleague who lives in youth
hostels in Taiwan, working remotely. He loves it.

But I don't really understand the "give up basic privacy to pursue your
dreams" thing. Seriously, programming is programming. You can do it any place
in the world. If your goal is to strike it rich at a startup in SF... well...
good luck is all I can say. Are these the new 49ers?

~~~
barbs
I agree, it totally depends what you're after, and how much you value your
privacy. It's like the difference between staying in shared hostel dorms vs.
private hotel rooms when you're travelling. I've just been travelling for the
past 6 or so weeks, mostly in hostels, and although I've missed having a
private room, the money I've saved by being in shared dorms (not to mention
the people I've met) has made it totally worth it. For me of course :).

------
jpatokal
> Renters are living a nightmare in order to pursue their dreams.

A "nightmare"? I spent my year in the army bunking with 12 people in a room,
and there are plenty of civilian jobs (eg. most oil rigs) that require hot
bunking: your share of the bunk is 12 hours per day, and the rest of the time
someone else is sleeping in it!

~~~
Zombieball
But isn't "housing" free in those scenarios? Certainly not +$1,000/month for
your bunk!

------
hugh4
I don't buy the idea that San Francisco has a housing shortage. San Francisco
already has rather a lot of houses for 47 square miles of land. What San
Francisco has is is a ridiculous oversupply of people who want to live there.

The time has come to say it: San Francisco is full. Everyone start colonising
somewhere else.

~~~
tdylan
No. SF has ample space horizontally and more importantly vertically for
housing. The problem is the construction of housing has been hindered
dramatically by bureaucrats.

~~~
hugh4
Sure, you could pack more people in, at the cost of quality of life for people
who live there. But why would you want to destroy a nice city full of historic
buildings just to cram more people in? It's ridiculous.

A forest of skyscrapers like the nastier parts of Hong Kong? No thanks.
Besides, you can't increase the amount if road space or the amount of footpath
available. And geography makes it an awful place for ultra high density, you
can only get out in one direction.

~~~
masklinn
> But why would you want to destroy a nice city full of historic buildings

Eh? San Francisco is a century old (because 1906 earthquake and fire), you can
find rabbit cages older than that on the east coast.

> A forest of skyscrapers like the nastier parts of Hong Kong?

Increasing density doesn't mean skycrappers. London and Paris have twice and
thrice the density of SF. Hell, Lyon has a 50% higher density than SF
(27000/sq mi to 18000) and there's almost no skyscrapers in the inner-city
skyline[0] and still room left for antique buildings[1], parks and basilicas
taking up whole hilltops[2].

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#/media/File:01._Panorama_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#/media/File:01._Panorama_de_Lyon_pris_depuis_le_toit_de_la_Basilique_de_Fourvière.jpg)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#/media/File:Amphitheater_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#/media/File:Amphitheater_von_Lyon.jpg)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#/media/File:Lyon_paysages...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyon#/media/File:Lyon_paysages.jpg)

------
raverbashing
And I'm here thinking that 200/300€ for a shared bedroom in Dublin was already
absurd.

~~~
istorical
It's not as bad as it seems when you compare salaries.

~~~
raverbashing
True, in SF it's probably double of what someone gets in Dublin

------
awjr
Do people buy camper vans and live in these? I've did a contract over a 6
month period in a camper van but was able to come home every weekend and
recharge the leisure batteries. It definitely needs a sport centre membership
to really make it work.

~~~
slfnflctd
That's a fantastic idea! Now, just tell me where I can park and sleep at night
without being woken up by the cops, fined and told to move along.

Unless you know someone willing to let you park on their private property, you
can't do this in a lot of cities. If you're near a wal mart, though, I think
they have a policy that allows it. Not sure if you have to ask first.

~~~
mattexx
There were plenty of RVs on Duboce under the 101 in the Mission when I worked
there ~2010. And on International Blvd when we left Oakland last year. I'm
sure there are plenty of other undesirable neighborhoods around the bay area.
Not that I'd recommend it...

------
crdoconnor
Hong Kong demonstrates where this trend is leading:

[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hong-kongs-poor-live-in-
stacked-...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hong-kongs-poor-live-in-stacked-
metal-cages/)

~~~
eru
How do the housing markets compare? Hong Kong is famously more free market
than San Francisco, though I have heard that real estate is one of the more
constrained sectors?

~~~
crdoconnor
This kind of thing is certainly the result of policies which the Heritage
foundation or Cato would approve of.

They're the ones who make those lists that put Hong Kong at #1/#2 "most free
market countries".

------
justifier
industry hostels are doing the same, though often worse

50$/nt(o), at a forgiving 28 days in a month is 1400$/mn

but they'll usually be kind enough to offer a 250/week deal for responsible
long term stays

but still, thats $1000/(4 week period..month rates will fluctuate with length)

you may be able to find a 33$/nt, so 924/(4wk), which will probably grant a
200/wk.. but most will require you to leave after 3 weeks anyway for fear of
sf squatter rights

if you want a steady living space, with access to the tools of your trade:
electricity,internet, and like interested people; for $850/month seems a fine
alternative to other temporary living opportunities

though, i agree both are appalling and minimal living space should be a
commodity

so are these 'bunk-bed craigslist ads' exploitative or, to turn a poignant
phrase, disrupting the already unfortunate hostel market

(o) [http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/San-
Francisco?source=adwo...](http://www.hostelworld.com/hostels/San-
Francisco?source=adwordsdynamic&network=g&creative=79775089820&adposition=1t2&uniqueclickID=9347571887421410650&sub_keyword=_cat:usa%20hostels&sub_ad=b&sub_publisher=ADW&gclid=CPGy7feclcgCFUNrfgod7w8EQA)

~~~
justifier
the san francisco board of supervisors(o) recent board meeting actions(i)
passed recommendation 150646(ii)(iii) which states:

    
    
        1) prohibit, with certain exceptions, rent increases 
        based on the addition of occupants even where a pre-
        existing rental agreement or lease permits such an
        increase; 2) prevent evictions based on the addition
        of occupants if the landlord has unreasonably refused
        the tenant’s written request, including a refusal based
        on the amount of occupants allowed by the rental
        agreement or lease; 
    

so now you can lawfully build those bunks while everyone talks about prop
f(iv)

(o) [http://www.sfbos.org/](http://www.sfbos.org/)

(i)
[https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=M&ID=434339&GUID=F48A...](https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=M&ID=434339&GUID=F48A591D-3463-45CB-87D5-FB3FF765D111)

(ii)
[https://sfgov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=2358278...](https://sfgov.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=2358278&GUID=DBC936F1-AC46-44CF-802F-5C0EC25F9B70)

(iii)
[https://sfgov.legistar.com/ViewReport.ashx?M=R&N=Master&GID=...](https://sfgov.legistar.com/ViewReport.ashx?M=R&N=Master&GID=60&ID=2358278&GUID=DBC936F1-AC46-44CF-802F-5C0EC25F9B70&Title=Legislation+Details)

(iv)
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280282](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10280282)

------
PopeOfNope
What's worse is that those "hacker hostels" in SoMa require you to apply and
be approved of before you can give them your money. If you're local, speak
english and aren't founding your own startup, they will say 'no, you can't
rent our bed'. They seem to prefer out of country entrepreneurs hoping to make
contacts for funding their new startup.

------
nickthemagicman
Honestly, this is fine by me. I just need a bed to sleep in at night.
Seriously between work, school, gym, going out how many hours are you actually
home anyway? Really all you need is a bed imo.

~~~
sundaeofshock
How about sex?

~~~
nickthemagicman
Sex? Ill just strap on my free time helmet and squeeze down into a free time
cannon and fire off into free time land.

