
Space Plane: Mysterious US military aircraft launches - willvarfar
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52698133
======
lifeisstillgood
Sat here in lockdown, I have just rewatched Matt Damon's The Martian and yes,
we want to go up and out. I am so glad someone is still trying.

I am also blown away by the American Federal budget - this is a _classified
military space program_. How much does one of those cost ?!

~~~
badrabbit
Enlighten a simpleton here please, why do "we" need to leave the planet. I am
far from a space nerd but I do know that neither mars or any solar object
other than other is known to contain climate that is better or would even come
close to earth's climate even with no polar ice caps and extreme global
warming.

Wouldn't it be cheaper (more humane as well) to "colonize" earth? For the next
100 years,even with full on warming , coastal areas and certain eco systems
will be lost but you will still no matter have most parts of the big
continents in tact. The land there exists now can support humanity even with
10x the population (if made arable). I mean things like beef and single story
housing would certainly be rare.

How about building new cities by the rockies and great planes and build things
like the hypertube (whatever it:s called) to make emmigration easier. Have
friendly eco-immigration policies to avert a humanitarian and geopolitical
crisis. Heck, even "colonize" the sahara,antarctica or ocean beds! Half your
problem is solved on earth once you desalinate ,irrigate and build viable
transport.

~~~
AlanSE
Your ideas for the Earth would play out in a catastrophic manner in practice.
Every bit of it requires violation of a basic economic principle - we build
out based on the lowest marginal cost. Before we go to the Rockies, we will
saturate more fertile and coastal areas. Easier to use what nature provides
than to supply those things artificially. Humans will eventually switch over
to artificial options, but only after collapse of the parallel natural system
is in terminal collapse. Examples start with fishing, and then never end.

In these macroeconomic terms, there is 1 viable way to save life from
destruction - open up new frontiers that have characteristics which are MORE
attractive to humans than counterparts on Earth.

In practice, that means the moon. The moon is smaller than Earth, but the
accessible area is possibly greater because of lack of oceans and lack of
existing use. It doesn't end there. Lower pressure and temperature gradients
mean that you can dig MUCH deeper. With similar original compositions,
industrial mineral availability (in terms of raw elements) from the moon
vastly outstrips the Earth. Some asteroids can be cherry picked, but depth of
the resource is more shallow.

Much high-tech lithography requires vacuum, which is produced artificially on
Earth. Space gives you that for free. We don't even really know what's
possible industrially with diffusion and surface tension effects, because
gravity cannot be eliminated on Earth for factory-type work, at all. Combined
with the mineral abundance, you have what you need for a self-sustaining super
advanced and practically limitless robotic industrial society. That is the
draw. Other things that fleshy humans need are a cost, which the other
benefits have to offset.

Materials from the moon can be delivered to low-Earth orbit at extremely low
physical effort compared to delivery from Earth's surface. Rockets are
improving such that human trips to space stations from Earth could be
economical, but a cislunar robotic presence must be able to sustain activities
beyond there.

This is the only option for saving the planet, and we are lucky that the
richest person on the planet shares the view that Earth should be light
industrial and residential... but ultimately, narrowly specialized in
environmental tourism. All we have to do is move the primary economic engine
into orbit.

~~~
pjc50
> lowest marginal cost

> moon

The energy economics alone doesn't work out. We might be able to make a robot
economy in space, but we can't have a significant _human_ economy in space.

------
shockinglytrue
The press around the X-37B continues to perplex, it's particularly
disappointing to see this "super secret but let's talk about it constantly"
article using the word "very" 3 times.

I think it was drilled into me by the age of 12 to avoid "very" in written
English in order not to obviously oversell, and yet here it is from a
professional writer working for the BBC

~~~
chrisseaton
In general the BBC prioritises simple writing, a reasonably low reading level,
and common words to make it as accessible as possible. They don't pay much
attention to ideas of artistic writing and they aren't looking to use a
different adverb or adjective every time for the whimsical sake of it. It's a
public news service, not a mid-atlantic magazine.

~~~
ethbro
The best news choice I made, as an American, was to get my primary news
through foreign outlets.

Because generally, they don't really care enough to implement systemic bias
about another country.

~~~
kube-system
That's quite a broad brush to paint with. There's plenty of bias in media
around the world, and more than a few examples are even more systematic than
what we see in the US.

~~~
mantap
Bias is unavoidable but if you read a variety of reputable news sources from
around the world you will at least know when they disagree.

Then, if you care enough you can investigate the issue yourself and come to
your own conclusions. In not, then at least you know that it's controversial.

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JKCalhoun
Wife and I stopped in at Edwards AFB perhaps around 2000? Maybe 1998 or so....
Have to dig up the photos to be sure.

The armed guard let us on the base so we could head to Dryden Flight Research
Center (now the Armstrong Flight Research Center). In those days I figured you
just tried to do a thing until someone said you couldn't. It didn't occur to
me that there would be a problem driving in to Dryden.

The guard asked a lot of questions, but, pre 9-11, we had no problem getting
in.

Dryden has a small museum, a few hangars. One hangars has the original M2-F1
lifting body.

I distinctly remember this space plane (or it's predecessor?) being towed down
a small road near Dryden. I guessed it was some sort of X-plane. We were on a
sort of mini-tour at that point, being shown around, and I believe there was
an attempt by the tour-guide to distract us from that plane.

~~~
walkingolof
Wonder if you saw the x-34
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_Sciences_X-34](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_Sciences_X-34)

~~~
JKCalhoun
Yes, you may be correct.

------
walterbell
More on the "power-beaming technology",
[https://www.livescience.com/microwave-beam-military-space-
pl...](https://www.livescience.com/microwave-beam-military-space-plane.html)

 _> ... test the idea of using microwave beams to send solar power to Earth
from space ... Build a big solar array in orbit, the idea goes, and it could
collect enough sunlight (unfiltered by atmospheric effects or clouds,) to
generate a powerful beam of microwaves. A collection station on Earth would
then convert that beam into useful power ... down the road he said he hopes it
will lead to a futuristic clean power source that could benefit everyone — and
give the U.S. a new near-monopoly over a global energy supply._

~~~
dx87
That brings back some nostalgia. I remember playing one of the early Sim City
games and that was one of the types of power plants you could set up. It had a
small chance to malfunction, causing the beam to miss the collection station
and set everything in the surrounding area on fire.

------
inamberclad
This is the least secretive X-37 mission yet. We know a fair amount about the
payloads onboard.

~~~
dgudkov
Or, this information can be thrown in intentionally to divert attention from
the _real_ mission. Make it plain and boring so that people quickly lose
interest and switch to next topic in the newsfeed.

------
anigbrowl
Here are some additional clues on the mission:
[https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/498210-how-the-
latest...](https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/498210-how-the-
latest-x-37b-mission-may-change-the-world)

------
Zenst
"One of the experiments will test the effect of radiation on seeds and other
materials."

Are seeds the baseline in testing biological effects in space? Asking as I
would of thought that testing seeds in space had been one of the most tested
avenues and with that, a known consistent form of biological matter that can
be compared with.

Certainly if you wanted to test a space shield, you could test with something
that can contain a few seeds and see how the results compare. Though as one of
the tests is for energy transmission, then seeing if such equipment increases
biological impact in proximity is worth knowing for future plans. Seeds
certainly robust enough and can crudly test them by growing them as well, so I
can see many reasons for them on many missions.

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ChuckMcM
I find it amusing that I now consider it so wasteful to throw away all that
rocket gear just to launch a payload :-).

I also wonder if they still have the "crew return" insert for the ship. Early
in its life it was envisioned as a way to bring the full crew of the ISS to
earth.

------
hyperpallium
A mew Kzinti lesson? "a power beam's efficiency as a weapon is in direct
proportion to its efficiency as a power beam."

------
chrisseaton
Did this mission not transfer to the new Space Force? If not, what kind of
things are they doing?

~~~
shockinglytrue
Given the frequency and consistency of narrative with which it appears in the
press, at this stage I'm convinced it's an empty UAV used entirely for some
marketing purpose

~~~
mhh__
It's spending months in space, I don't think it's for marketing.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo)

Based on what this talk indicates, the US Government is doing some
_questionable_ (...) things in terms of signals intelligence in space.

We probably won't know what X37-B is doing in space for years but I imagine
they will have at least tried to do some big brother exercises. The US/Western
Intelligence community effectively treats all communications as fair game -
they always have (e.g. MI5 were capturing encryption keys from neutral
embassies using microphones in the ~50/60s) they just possess the means to do
it efficiently at large scale now.

I imagine a large part of its mission is also just testing military equipment
that can't go on the ISS but that's not as sexy.

~~~
azernik
They're doing some questionable sigint things I'm sure, but you don't need
reentry and reusability for that. The most likely use-case is for testing
components to use in conventional satellites.

------
ncmncm
That they send it up for years at a stretch mostly indicates that they have
not discovered any good uses for it yet. If it were in demand, they would need
it back before two years have passed.

Keeping it parked in a hangar when it's not needed would get embarrassing.
Leaving it in orbit makes it seem to be doing something, particularly if you
pretend it's all hush-hush.

------
NiceWayToDoIT
Is it possible to use the same "power-beaming technology" as a directed-energy
weapon ?

------
pengaru
"power-beaming technology"

~~~
mhh__
Sarcasm?

Even uBeam does work, it's just not very efficient

~~~
pengaru
I have no doubts beamed-power is possible, I just assume it's effectively an
energy weapon and the real magic is at the receiving end harnessing the power
without getting destroyed.

But if you aim it somewhere other than the receiver, it's a weapon, no?

~~~
mhh__
I'm not convinced. I forgot the exact numbers but when I was trying to look at
studies 5G alarmists cite* with an open mind some Energy Densities in question
(being applied to animal subjects) were stronger than standing in front of one
of those enormous ballistic missile tracking phased arrays (Which given the
subject of this thread are also used for tracking satellites)

* My absolute favourite one was "Sleeping next to a mobile phone is correlated with lack of sleep" _hmmm I wonder why_

~~~
pengaru
> I'm not convinced. I forgot the exact numbers but when I was trying to look
> at studies 5G alarmists cite* with an open mind some Energy Densities in
> question (being applied to animal subjects) were stronger than standing in
> front of one of those enormous ballistic missile tracking phased arrays
> (Which given the subject of this thread are also used for tracking
> satellites)

Thank you for implicitly putting me in the company of 5G alarmists.

We're not talking about 5G here.

~~~
mhh__
It's an extremely inefficient weapon, is my point. Sending energy from orbit
to earth sufficiently strong to kill someone would need something like
thousands of gigawatts as a point source I think

~~~
pengaru
> Sending energy from orbit to earth sufficiently strong to kill someone would
> need something like thousands of gigawatts as a point source I think

It doesn't need to kill people to have utility as a weapon.

Just look at how the unexplained alleged "sonic attacks" on the US embassy in
Cuba played out.

I also presume there's potential for damaging sensitive electronics.

I'm not in objection of any of this, it's a military mission in nature. It
just seems obvious to me that anything capable of beaming useful amounts of
energy from space to power drones or anything portable on earth also has
potential for direct use as a weapon. The energy density must be relatively
high for things having such limited area to collect it.

------
russli1993
all the money on military, and not in investing in healthcare, improve public
health responses, increasing financial reward for the front line workers that
are sacrificing themselves for the greater society. In my opinion, this is
sad. I would rather have this money being written as a check to every nurses
and doctors served in COVID19.

~~~
waheoo
I dont disagree that we spend too much on defense but the idea that we should
stop all spending on science to help out some nurses is super strange.

Its akin to saying we should stop funding nasa be ause who needs space travel.

Also please stop glorifying a set profession as some kind of ulturistic
calling. Theyre in it for the money and prestige, and frankly, wouldnt be
there otherwise.

If you want to thank someone, thank the delivery guy, the supermarket clerks,
the flight attendants, or the casual staff out of the job right now.

These people are feeling the brunt of this. These people are the front line.

~~~
wrboyce
Many of my in-laws are medical professionals: GPs, surgeons, physicians,
anaesthetists, nurses, the list goes on.

Not a single one of them has done it for financial gain or prestige, and for
the most part the driving force really does seem to be a genuine desire to
help people. (I’m based in the UK, going into medicine for money or prestige
would be a fool’s errand.)

Please don’t make assumptions about things with which you are clearly
unfamiliar, and if you must do so please do not assert them as facts.

------
lihaciudaniel
I thought this would be about the declassified UFO

------
littleweep
Isn't X-37B the name of Elon's other child?

------
HenryKissinger
> Mysterious US military aircraft launches

> Mysterious US military aircraft

Journalists need to stop using adjectives like "mysterious" when writing about
the X-37B. While the aircraft's technology and missions are classified, there
is nothing mysterious about the existence of the plane itself.

~~~
pengaru
> Journalists need to stop using adjectives like "mysterious" when writing
> about the X-37B.

Considering there isn't even a journalist attributed on the article, I'm not
sure we should be presuming any were even involved in its publication.

~~~
lonelappde
BBC doesn't put bylines on articles that are merely reporting general
information cobbled together from press releases and public activity.

[https://www.bbc.com/news/help-41670342](https://www.bbc.com/news/help-41670342)

That does leave a hole when articles include opinion content mixed in with
general facts.

------
b34r
Good thing this was built years ago, probably won’t glitch out like Boeing’s
other products.

~~~
MisterBiggs
More so that Boeing is lucky it's classified or else all the blunders would be
public.

------
awinder
One day after
[https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12617475806665523...](https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1261747580666552320)
can’t be a coincidence right

~~~
jacobush
Someone hacked my computer - it looks like the president of the United States
of America is posting some kind of ironic meme video about himself on Twitter.

~~~
mschuster91
Not the first time he did this
([https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12251747139929907...](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1225174713992990721?s=19)).
It's ... awkward to watch this as an European.

~~~
jacobush
I wrote a half satire thing about how the Trump became on office, ostensibly
voted to by congress, but somehow they always vote a Trump descendant into
office. For life.

