
Chinese Tech Group Led by Qihoo 360 Bids $1.2B for Browser Maker Opera - molsson
http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/09/chinese-tech-group-led-by-qihoo-360-bids-1-2b-for-browser-maker-opera/
======
molsson
Given all the horrors @taviso posted concerning Comodo and AVAST etc, it's
really really sad to see that the remains of Opera Software are now in fact
being bought by a consortium that amongst other things are running "an anti-
virus maker that ships a browser". What could possibly go wrong?

And the fact that Qihoo recently got busted in a Volkswagen-like scam when
their "anti virus software" was tested does not inspire confidence in their
business ethics either: [http://www.computerworld.com/article/2917384/malware-
vulnera...](http://www.computerworld.com/article/2917384/malware-
vulnerabilities/antivirus-test-labs-call-out-chinese-security-company-as-
cheat.html)

The wikipedia page for "360 Secure Browser" says: "High usage numbers may be
due to the browser being difficult to uninstall and a warning pop-up that
appears when a user attempts to install another browser, claiming that the
other browser is unsafe and should not be run."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_Secure_Browser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_Secure_Browser)

This article gives a bit more context: [http://www.digital-dd.com/qihoo-
browser-war/](http://www.digital-dd.com/qihoo-browser-war/)

~~~
geofft
I was surprised to see that Qihoo 360 was credited in most of the qemu CVEs
from earlier this week:

[https://www.debian.org/security/2016/dsa-3471](https://www.debian.org/security/2016/dsa-3471)

~~~
yadongwen
The company might be rogue but they do have a very strong security team..
maybe the best in China and one of the best in the world.

~~~
xjp360
kim jong un also has a strong Nuclear research team.

------
vardump
Sigh. Opera is the only (mobile) web browser that implements text reflow
sensibly, limiting block level elements to screen width.

So when you zoom into text that's wider than screen, it always reflows so that
just vertical scrolling is required to read it.

Other mobile browsers force me to either zoom out making text illegibly small
or to continuously scroll horizontally.

I so don't want to lose such a useful browser. If Opera is gone, I might have
to write my own to do the same. Or more likely to hack Chrome or Firefox to do
more sensible layout.

~~~
anc84
It absolutely baffles me how people manage to use other browsers. Using the
internet with Opera Mobile on a tiny screen is wonderful, I much prefer it to
dumbed-down mobile/responsive layouts with huge text.

If anyone knows of a FLOSS alternative with well-working text-reflow, please
shout. Hell, I would pay 10€ for such app.

~~~
edent
Quite agree. I've ranted about this before
[https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2014/12/do-all-google-employees-
hav...](https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2014/12/do-all-google-employees-have-perfect-
eyesight/)

Chrome used to have this, but removed it for no good reason. Wish Firefox for
Android had this.

~~~
jakub_g
Thanks for the link, and for the rant. It deserves a separate submission to HN
:) I'll let you do that.

~~~
edent
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8802584](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8802584)

------
korginator
I guess this was coming. Opera was on a long and painful road to irrelevance,
right from when they threw away all their amazing work to become yet another
chrome variant minus the most useful features that really made Opera what it
was - respected, lightweight, fast, and supremely customisable.

As for this acquisition, it's a surefire way of alienating whatever userbase
they managed to hold on to. Qihoo is a purveyor of questionable software to
put it mildly, their servers are in mainland China and are probably controlled
by the CCP/PLA unit 61398, and I sure as hell won't trust them with anything.

~~~
diezge
Opera has over 200 million users in developing Countries, precisely because of
its lightweightness/speed on mobile.

~~~
joezydeco
The infotainment UI in my car (a GENIVI product from JCI and now Visteon) uses
Opera as the rendering engine. A lot of cars are (were?) starting to use this.

------
jernfrost
As a Norwegian I am not sure what to think about this. Every single dam
successful tech company created in this country gets bought out: Fast,
Trolltech, Tandberg and now Opera. And I've been part of several which has
experienced this. Sometimes it might make the product bigger in the market but
often it has not been a success. Certainly not seen from a Norwegian
perspective, with respect to jobs or corporate culture.

~~~
tallanvor
Well, Microsoft has maintained the development teams in Norway, so there's
that. And Opera didn't wait to be purchased to dump a bunch of people in Oslo.
I can't really speak as to the Trolltech and Tandberg jobs, though.

~~~
jjgod
Trolltech (now the Qt Company) did manage to maintain its staff across a few
acquisitions and split, some of the most senior staff still remains active at
the company.

I'd rather say this is not just Opera side has moved on, many people left
Opera before the several rounds of layoffs, and some choose not to stay even
when they are offered a new position (myself included).

~~~
digi_owl
I wonder if that's because their owners have been fellow Nordic companies, and
thus had less of a clash of cultures.

------
logicchains
Among the technologically knowledgeable Chinese people I've met Qihoo 360
Antivirus is pretty much considered malware, like if McAfee Antivirus and
RealPlayer had some horribly evil child together. So this doesn't look like
good news for Opera.

------
Indyan
This is bad news. Opera runs products like Opera Mini, Opera Turbo, Opera Max,
and SurfEasy VPN. Each of these products require routing data through Opera's
servers. Trust is of paramount importance. And Qihoo is not a company that I
trust.

------
konart
Opera is long dead. Since they've started to work on this chromium version
they stoppted listenning to their users.

Vivaldi is the new Opera.

~~~
Indyan
Ever since JvT was pushed out by shareholders eager for profit, and Lars
stepped in, they have stopped listening to users.

Many old timers now work at Vivaldi. And even folks like Haavard left -
[https://opvard.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/goodbye-
opera/](https://opvard.wordpress.com/2015/04/21/goodbye-opera/)

------
OoTheNigerian
This might sound naive but it is a serious question.

Wouldn't it have been the best way for Microsoft to get a hold of the mobile
market by buying Opera then "updating" people's apps to a new version which
would be "Edge for Mobile" ?

As it is, Microsoft has practically zero imprint on the mobile browser market.

Would there be any problems with my proposed approach?

~~~
Gustomaximus
I've thought of the same thing. A while back it did look like were dipping
their toe in the water (article below). I guess not.

[http://www.informationweek.com/mobile/mobile-
devices/microso...](http://www.informationweek.com/mobile/mobile-
devices/microsoft-opera-partner-on-phone-browser/d/d-id/1298210)

------
multipass
Wonder how this will affect Chinese citizens that have used and trusted Opera
Mini to bypass censorship and the great firewall of China in the past. What
browsing history is kept by the Opera Mini servers?

~~~
freewizard
Opera mini runs Chinese servers separately. If ppl use Opera mini in mainland
China, their activity is already on servers which the gov has a legal access
to.

------
hodder
Lots of negativity around this purchase but in my opinion Opera was destined
to be Left in the dust of the big 3. I think this purchase guarantees at least
some money flowing into competition and new ideas from a company that seems to
embrace common sense web standards.

Congrats to the team and the owners.

------
space328
qihoo is a nortorious company of building spyware. I will not use anything
related to opera anymore.

------
eva1984
Didn't know Opera is still in business.

~~~
jinst8gmi
Their Opera mini mobile browser has 300+ million users.

------
jcyw
Pay $10 to become VIP level one. It removes ads in browser. $20 for VIP II:
rendering css on your page. $30 for VIP III: able to run javascript. $40 for
ES5 support.

------
ck2
Chinese government wants the Opera proxy, great way to monitor people.

Don't do it Opera (though for 1B I can't blame them).

------
crudbug
I decided to stick with Opera browsers & SurfEasy VPN exclusively, this move
makes me question my decision.

------
pknight
Terrible development. Opera was hands-down the best desktop browser. Somehow
less buggy and more userfriendly than Chrome. Handles tons of tabs without
problems, fast snappy and even with support for vertical tabs.

------
whelp
This is no good! I am not using Opera as my main browser, but I do use it to
test my webapps. Is there a way to disable auto-update from now on, surely,
safely, and cleanly? My last version is going to be 35.

------
pseingatl
Let's hope they restore the Presto engine.

~~~
pki
Any product by 360 is effectively malware. They are by no means a legitimate
"security software" vendor.

------
frik
They could open source their older Opera 12 (presto) and Opera Mail, just
before they sell the company.

~~~
hollerith
\-- and get sued for negotiating in bad faith.

~~~
frik
Before the negotiation. The old code is death weight anyway and not used in
Opera 15 at all. But the code could be useful, to revive Opera Mail and a
community could form around their beloved older Opera 1-12 browser.

~~~
hollerith
Opera's main competitors are open-source projects. You are suggesting that
they create another competitor right before putting the company up for sale,
and I'm suggesting that they are unlikely to do that.

Yes, a different for-profit company _did_ create an open-source browser
project, but that was a rare situation in which the for-profit company
dominated a very lucrative market (search) and the open-source project had the
effect of undermining one of the few strategic advantages (namely, Internet
Explorer's usage share) enjoyed by their only serious competitor.

In other words, in certain situations it might make sense for a for-profit
company to use an open-source project to take users away from a proprietary
software product of one of its competitors if the competitor would have been
able to use its control over the proprietary software product as a lever on
consumer behavior in a huge and lucrative market. But those situations are
rare and do not apply here.

Google's open-sourcing Chromium resembles Russia's "scorched-earth policy":
the move destroyed some of Google's options or resources, but made sense
because it simultaneously took those resources away from Google's biggest
threat. But the circumstances in which a scorched-earth policy make sense are
rare and do not apply in Opera's situation.

