

Programmers are people, too - AmberShah
http://www.codeanthem.com/blog/2010/06/programmers-are-people-too/

======
patio11
Some developers don't have life experience apparently. Here, some hard won
lessons from the people who suffered so you don't have to:

1) If the paycheck you receive does not exactly match the amount you were
promised, _stop working now_ and get it resolved. One successful resolution is
"Doh, I did not calculate my deductions correctly", and you thank your local
HR drone and carry on. Another successful resolution is "Doh, you don't want
to pay me what we agreed upon", and you _quit on the spot_.

2) Two kinds of companies miss payroll: companies about to fail and companies
about to screw you. No company anywhere on earth deserves two extensions to
payroll, and I would be _darn_ selective to those companies I gave a single
extension to.

~~~
AmberShah
I would personally probably have quit on the spot. Partly, that's because I
know my financial situation allows me to do that sort of. And partly because I
would rather scrape the gunk off of someone else's kitchen counters than work
for a slimey person who did that to me. I don't think you can judge someone
else harshly (especially someone with an infant) for working until he had
something else lined up. 2 months was probably an eternity for him but short
in the grand scheme of things.

~~~
loewenskind
>I don't think you can judge someone else harshly (especially someone with an
infant) for working until he had something else lined up.

But if you're not getting paid (or very likely not to, as in this case) then
_you're not working_. You're donating time to someone. Don't do that if you
have mouths to feed.

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atiw
So, why is it that even after all the long -hours, all the trash talk about us
being "resources" and after all other issues, we "programmers" (I would like
to call ourselves "hackers", but whatever) still continue to serve others
while taking all this BS. I know why I do it, is because I am an immigrant
here, hoping to make my dream project work while working on the side. I am one
of the mere 1% or so of american population. (An excuse, but a valid one. I
tried making the company work for almost a year, before I realized I would be
kicked out if I don't get employed and get a H1B ) But what stops US citizens
from putting an end to this BS?? Is that because we "programmers" tend to be
people who are always optimistic and hope that things will get better as we
go? Are we really that naive to keep working on something, hoping for better
conditions, happier days, a bonus or a raise?

Or is it that we are not united enough? Is that it? Are we not networking
enough?? (I am guilty, I know).

I mean, I hear of all these stories about inhuman treatments (I'm looking at
you EA). And I somehow always go back to work, almost always being thankful it
wasn't me. Are we selfish to think that? Why are we thinking it's ok until it
happens to us?

How can we make this better, without making a traditional Trade union? I am
serious.

I wanna know.

There must be some way we can unite ourselves to get better work conditions
for everyone, AND still not hurt our bosses and companies in the process??

Suggestions?

~~~
loewenskind
The way to fight employer abuse is the same as it's always been: forming a
union.

As far as "still not hurt our bosses and companies in the process", you will
do exactly that. That money they save by getting you to do the hours of 2
people isn't just laying on the ground. It's going somewhere. So if you want
the company to pay you more or hire the amount of people they actually need to
let everyone work more reasonable hours then they either have to raise their
prices or cut costs somewhere.

~~~
atiw
Right. I was referring more to the whole "Unions tend to go more towards some
sort of combo of blackmail/ bribery".

Or they just end up being controlled by a few union leaders, and then we are
serving another middle man (union leader), who is probably only making himself
richer in the process.

I have this feeling that usually unions tend to grab attention of more cunning
people, who know how to play that system in their favor mostly, thereby
hurting both the employer and the employee, in a even more hidden manner.

Of course, I have never been part of one, so this "opinion" of mine about
unions is what I formed from hearing about 'em. Correct me if I am wrong.

~~~
loewenskind
This is certainly the case in some places, but I don't think it's like that
everywhere nor has to be. If you don't want unions then the next option is to
make the government protect the workers directly, but I don't see that as an
option in the US. At least not today.

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pavel_lishin
> He shows up and begins working and when it comes time to get paid. It turns
> out he’s going to be paid substantially less than the offer he accepted.

Wait, do contracts not exist in this wacky world?

~~~
yummyfajitas
The usual contract is at-will employment - you can quit anytime, they can fire
you or cut your pay anytime.

So as long as they told him they were lowering his pay _before_ he actually
did any work for them, I don't think they broke a contract.

~~~
abstractbill
_The usual contract is at-will employment..._

This is usual _in the US_. It's definitely not usual everywhere (in the UK for
example, pretty much nobody works without a contract).

~~~
nopassrecover
In Aus I've never had a job where either the annual salary or hourly rate was
not declared in a contract, except my first retail job where it was under "the
award rate" which is a public document specifying the minimum rates of pay for
that industry.

------
mcknz
BILL: Hi, Milton. What's going on?

MILTON: I, I, I, I, I didn't receive my paycheck this week.

BILL: Uh, you're gonna have to talk to Payroll about that.

------
uast23
I am sure you are going to reach out to lot of "Programmers" with this :)..
especially because of the "zombie" mention there; its so real.

------
mavelikara
"I’m sure it’s easier to layoff someone here, outsource overseas for $7 an
hour, and then have to hire the same developers back to fix the ridiculous
mess of a software project you got back (ie. rewrite) when you don’t think of
programmers as people."

and

"I think it can affect programmers more because of the disparity between
corporations viewing programming as monkeys banging on a keyboard whereas a
truly good developer knows that it’s much more of a craft or even an art."

The author thinks of her own work as art, but those of fellow programmers
across the pond is all a "ridiculous mess". Neat.

~~~
loewenskind
It might not be as racist as you imply. The fact is those fellow programmers
"across the pond" are usually not experienced. That's why they're so cheap.
After they get a few years experience they leave to start getting paid.
Because of this, outsourcing firms usually have insane turn over and actually
_do_ give back a "ridiculous mess".

If this weren't the case programming would probably have been outsourced years
ago. Having face time is worth something, but not worth the discrepancy in pay
between outsource and insourced.

~~~
mavelikara
"The fact is those fellow programmers "across the pond" are usually not
experienced. That's why they're so cheap."

Would you entertain the possibility that their wages are lower because the
cost of living in their countries are also lower? I agree that many
outsourcing firms operate the way you described it. But then, I think that
many people who call themselves professional programmers here in the US should
never have been allowed near a keyboard unattended. The author takes offense
when corporations paint all programmers with a broad brush and view them as
"monkeys banging on a keyboard" - but somehow she has no issues applying a
similar description to programmers elsewhere.

~~~
loewenskind
>Would you entertain the possibility that their wages are lower because the
cost of living in their countries are also lower?

In the connected world we live in now, people can see what they could be
making. If they can be mobile then many are going to (and do) take advantage
of it. They gain enough experience, move to a country with a higher salary and
then invest the money back home. Why would you spend your life working for a
"comfortable but frugal lower middle class lifestyle" when you could be rich
without having to put out much more effort?

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abrown28
You take that back :P

------
TheSOB88
>He shows up and begins working and when it comes time to get paid. It turns
out he’s going to be paid substantially less than the offer he accepted.

And he doesn't take the other offer?

~~~
hga
It may have been dead by then. That's what happened to me the last time I went
to work for a company that substantially and ruinously changed what they
promised me (although not the pay).

