
Are the benefits of moderate drinking a myth? - luu
http://davidroodman.com/blog/2015/05/01/are-the-benefits-of-moderate-drinking-a-myth/
======
ScottBurson
TL;DR: _Among light and moderate drinkers as a group, 27 of the 30 factors
were correlated with drinking levels, and in the direction that could create a
false appearance of moderate drinking leading to better health. For example,
as people enter old age, they drink less and become more likely to die. ... In
light of these facts, Occam’s Razor argues for a simple theory: the net
marginal impact of drinking on health is negative at all levels; and moderate
drinking is a marker for relative youth, affluence, and healthy habits rather
than a cause of good health._

I guess he's suggesting that the apparent positive correlation between
moderate drinking and health is an example of Simpson's paradox [0].

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox)

~~~
coldtea
> _In light of these facts, Occam’s Razor argues for a simple theory: the net
> marginal impact of drinking on health is negative at all levels; and
> moderate drinking is a marker for relative youth, affluence, and healthy
> habits rather than a cause of good health._

That would be true only if all studies failed to control for such parameters,
which sounds BS.

According to Occam’s Razor it's more probably that the author is yielding
Occam's Razor wrongly, than that all those researchers are wrong and fail at
such basic research methodology as controlling for age and those other
parameters...

------
hartator
In France, we have a strong belief that one glass of wine per day is something
sane and you should actually do it. There is no scientific study behind it and
every other tests seem in fact to tend to show that alcohol is harmful for the
body. But because it makes everyone happy to believe so (myself included!), we
root for it.

~~~
DanBC
There was a recent large study, mentioned in the article, that said that
drinking up to 6 drinks a day was healthier than being teetotal. It got a lot
of publicity. And it's probably not true, so it's good that articles like this
one are appearing.

~~~
kvcc01
Do these studies ever control for the socialization factor that may relate to
alcohol consumption? It seems having good social connectedness is good for you
psychically, maybe even physically, so if you socialize with your friends,
family, colleagues over drinks regularly, that may be helping more than
drinking itself.

Conversely, if you are a recluse, perhaps taking up drinking on your own won't
be too beneficial, if at all.

~~~
mrtron
For me this is the biggest thing I enjoy about alcohol - it is primarily
consumed at social occasions. Convincing some old colleagues to grab a beer on
a patio is much easier than convincing them to meet up otherwise. Not everyone
drinks at the meetups, but most do.

------
gwern
It's an interesting topic on its own, but I would draw people's attention to
the bulletpoint about 'Mendelian randomization': this is an exotic kind of
natural experiment which is growing in importance as genetic sequencing
becomes more prevalent, and it's worth looking at the papers in more detail
just to understand the logic of this design & how it's being applied.

------
kayimbo
I didn't really read all the comments, but I think if you really care about
the issue its pretty apparent moderate drinking being healthy is totally
nonsense.

Baloney manipulation of statistics. There are like 30 different known
mechanisms for alcohol being toxic, and as far as I know only a couple for it
providing physical benefit. As far as I know, there are no animal studies
where moderate alcohol increases lifespan or health. The animal studies all
show common sense, alcohol is pretty darn bad for you.

------
Elepsis
It's worth noting that even if there's no health benefit to regular moderate
drinking, there's no argument made here that there's necessarily harm from
regular moderate drinking.

So maybe the takeaway is simply that if you choose to drink moderately, don't
pat yourself on the back.

~~~
pc2g4d
Actually it is making such an argument: "Occam’s Razor argues for a simple
theory: the net marginal impact of drinking on health is negative at all
levels"

They don't provide definitive proof, but that is their argument.

~~~
dpark
That seems an abuse of Occam's Razor. There are many chemicals that are known
to be unhealthy in large amounts, but are healthy (even necessary) in smaller
amounts. This group of chemicals includes linoleic acid, vitamin A, iron, and
water.

It may certainly be true that alcohol is a net negative in any amount, but it
would be in lots of good company if it turns out that small amounts of alcohol
are indeed healthy.

------
pdiddy
This is not an area where I have much more than a passing interest, so much of
this is over my head, so to speak. I was first introduced to the idea of
healthy moderate drinking in Walter Willett's _Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy_.

Here is a link to one of the studies he cites:

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12519921](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12519921)

Does this study not constitute a randomized trial on the benefit of moderate
drinking?

~~~
eegilbert
I just read the Methods section of that article. It does not use a RCT design;
it's an observational study based on questionnaire data. All standard confound
caveats apply (with the exception of the controls accounted for in the paper).

~~~
pdiddy
Thanks for explaining. After I posted I read the methods and that became
clear, but the explanation of confounding is definitely helpful.

Willett says in his book, "When the first reports appeared linking moderate
alcohol consumption with lower rates of heart disease, many doctors and
scientists thought that some other habit shared by drinkers, not the drinking
accounted for the benefit. Today the evidence strongly points to alcohol
itself."

Unfortunately I don't have the copy of the book with me to check, and that
study was the only one I could find by searching the book through Amazon. I
would be interested to see what other evidence he points to.

------
camelNotation
I've never heard the idea that "moderate drinking" was good for your health.

I've heard that having 1 or 2 dark beers per week can positively impact your
HDL Cholesterol levels.

I've heard that drinking a glass of red wine every now and then can benefit
your cardiovascular health.

However, I've never heard of any health benefits from light beer, liquor,
white wine, or any other alcoholic beverage. I am curious where the idea of
"benefits of moderate drinking" came from.

------
mastre_
The effects on mental health should also be considered, don't see it
addressed/considered. It cuts both ways, but since we're talking about
moderation, it could well be there's measurable positive impact for the
classic "one glass of wine a day" case under certain conditions. Something the
French, Italians and Spaniards are naturally clued in about, à la
Mediterranean diet.

------
jrk_
Personally, I prefer to get wasted every now and then, instead of getting into
the habit of consuming a tiny amount of alcohol every day. But to each their
own.. I also strongly believe in this: Everything in moderation, even
moderation. :) (Bonus points if you know who said it)

------
acheron
Another one for Alcademic's "Good Booze, Bad Booze" series:
[http://alcademics.com/2015/01/good-booze-bad-
booze.html](http://alcademics.com/2015/01/good-booze-bad-booze.html)

------
31reasons
Every time some statistical "studies" come out I think of which industry is
going to benefit from it.

~~~
saraid216
So... what did you think of? I can't think of any industries that would
directly benefit from people drinking less.

~~~
stephengillie
One way to look at it is that alcoholic beverages compete with other
beverages, so maybe Coca-Cola and Pepsico would benefit.

Another way is that alcohol competes with other neurotropes, so maybe
pharmaceutical companies and drug dealers would benefit. Or even makers of
psychedelic music and images.

A third way to view it is that alcohol competes with other stress-removers, so
massage therapy and calming music vendors would benefit.

------
uptownJimmy
My purely observational take on this: moderate drinking itself is the myth:
most people who drink daily do not drink in anything resembling moderate
amounts, especially as the years go by.

~~~
arielweisberg
My observation is that my drinking habits match my food habits. Both require
careful attention although alcohol unlike food has a built-in negative
feedback mechanism.

I do a dry week without alcohol every once in a while just to make sure I can.

I find doing a dry week without alcohol the same difficulty as dry week
without diet Coke. Which is to say I like diet Coke a lot and both require
effort. You get things like hey wouldn't a diet Coke be nice, and then have to
remember you aren't drinking that now and then the thought will repeat several
times in a fairly small time window.

~~~
dpark
> _I find doing a dry week without alcohol the same difficulty as dry week
> without diet Coke._

This is similarly true for me. I can abstain from alcohol, but I miss it when
I do. The effort is similar to abstaining from, say, ice cream or cookies. I
would eat ice cream every night if it didn't feel so unhealthy.

I also find that when abstaining from alcohol, I crave ice cream and other
sweets far more. Alcohol and sweets seem to satisfy a common underlying
craving in me. It's far easier to give up one than both.

~~~
stephengillie
Beer has numerous vitamins & minerals and fiber.

[http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/good-
bad.php](http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/good-bad.php)

And apparently microbrews are healthier than domestic brews.

