

Apple rejected Flattr… and it’s not the end - LinaLauneBaer
http://blog.flattr.net/2012/05/apple-rejected-flattr-but-its-not-the-end/

======
DanI-S
_> We understand that directing your user outside of your app may not be the
user experience you prefer to offer your users. However it is a common
experience in a variety of iOS apps._

That doesn't seem like the kind of uncompromising approach to fantastic user
experience that has made Apple so successful.

~~~
signalsignal
I think Instacast, and maybe Flattr as well, should boycott Apple and instead
focus on the Android platforms starting with Google Play and Amazon's
Appstore. Otherwise they are helping to perpetuate and even reward this kind
of behavior.

Does anyone have the link for Instacast for Android?

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Year after year, this 2003 essay by Tim Bray continues to be true:

> I’ve been following some discussions about the future of software
> applications, and a phrase that came up in my dinner with Robb Beal has been
> echoing in my mind.What it comes down to is this: if you want to develop
> software, you can build for the Web and/or Unix and/or OSS platforms; or
> alternatively, you can be a sharecropper. Your choice, but I think it’s an
> easy one. Especially since the users out there want you to do the right
> thing.

> What Robb actually said, in a conversation about Mac software outputs like
> Ranchero and Watson and his own Spring, was that building for the Apple OS
> feels like being a sharecropper.

[http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePla...](http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace)

~~~
ryanmolden
I think his statement of "the users want you to do the right thing" is being a
bit generous. Users want whatever app they want on whatever platform they
have. They don't want to jailbreak their device to install your app or go to
some out of the way (possibly untrustworthy) place to locate it. Centralized,
reliable app stores are liked generally by users. That said, as a developer,
it is onerous/depressing to have faceless "bureaucrats" decide the fate of
your apps acceptance/rejection.

~~~
taligent
Funny as a developer I don't have the same problem. I intrinsically understand
that it is their store hence their rules. So long as I follow their well
published and understood guidelines there won't be a problem.

Just like I would get banned from Google if I didn't follow their rules.

~~~
EvilTerran
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists
in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the
unreasonable man."

------
glimcat
My big unanswered question going into the article was "What the crud is Flattr
and why should I care." Starting your posts off with a brief introduction of
who you are is often a good idea.

Flattr is a micropayment system. You pay them a monthly subscription, then
Like(tm) a bunch of stuff on the internet. They split up whatever portion of
your monthly sub that they don't keep among the places you tag. Apple
presumably flagged the app which integrated Flattr due to their well-known
policies about in-app payments.

~~~
CookWithMe
> Starting your posts off with a brief introduction of who you are is often a
> good idea.

IF most of your readers don't know what you are doing. I think this was
written for their community (not HN), so most of them know what Flattr is
about.

Also, they have "About Flattr" in the footer - not very prominently placed,
but still find-able.

~~~
lukifer
It isn't just Flattr: I encounter this issue regularly when being linked to
startup blogs. Having one sentence or one link on every page that succinctly
describes what you do just seems like a good idea. The web is made for
linking, and not everybody will walk through the front door.

------
jmonegro
In this case, where donations would happen with one tap, I think it is
sensible for Apple to require breaking the UX so as to avoid unintended
donations by the users, or malicious implementation by the developers.

~~~
bilbo0s
I'm not very big on Apple practices, but I have to agree with you here. This
seems like the sort of tool that can be used to do some really shady things.
Which, in and of itself, is not a problem. The thing is, when money 'goes
missing' from user accounts, they tend to blame either Apple or the App
company as opposed to themselves for not paying attention to what they were
doing. Apple has been burned in the media by things like that before. IE -
Kids racking up thousands of dollars of purchases because mom authorized one,
and then let the kid go play on her ipad.

In this case, this seems reasonable. Unless I'm missing something, this is not
the sort of thing you want being easy for novice users.

~~~
sch1zo
I think you missed the point that you set a fixed amount of money to use each
month. There's no way flattr will use more than the chosen monthly amount.

~~~
bilbo0s
Principle is the same. So Flattr only enables shady access to $30 a month,
which mom wanted to use at a day spa say. Only little suzy saw the "like"
thing and said, "Hey... I like this paperdolls app/site (whatever)!"

I mean, mom may have even been happy allocating some money to educational
things, but not virtual Barbies. Your statement is basically saying, "Well
Flattr only enables shady people to steal a set amount every month."

~~~
vibrunazo
Explain to me, exactly, step-by-step. How forcing little suzy to click 2 times
by having to use safari, instead of 1 click inside the app. Would stop the
problem you're mentioning.

You're confusing two completely separate things. One is preventing fraud (what
you think apple is doing). The other is force a possible fraud to take 2
seconds longer (what they actually are accomplishing). They have the same
amount of control to prevent fraud within the app as within safari. If they
want to prevent fraud, they could ban fraudulent apps. Not just add
unnecessary roadblocks to apps that just happen to not be paying them app
store share for donations.

~~~
taligent
You seem to think that 1 click is no different from 2 clicks.

I draw your attention to Amazon's one click patent and the huge influence it
has had on their success. 1 click can be reactive. 2 clicks almost always
requires you to think about your decision.

~~~
sangnoir
_Explain to me, exactly, step-by-step. How forcing little suzy to click 2
times by having to use safari, instead of 1 click inside the app. Would stop
the problem you're mentioning._

You'd make an awesome politician: Can't answer the question? No problem! Ask
yourself a different question and proceeed to answer that one instead!

------
mgkimsal
"We understand that directing your user outside of your app may not be the
user experience you prefer to offer your users. However it is a common
experience in a variety of iOS apps."

So... it's crappy for everyone across the board. Take comfort in that!

~~~
recoiledsnake
Except for apps that pay 30% to Apple. That's a key distinction.

------
LinaLauneBaer
Here is a copy (as PDF) of the article in case you can't access the site:

<http://christian-kienle.de/ShinyVideo/Flattr.pdf>

------
jcmhn
I think we can safely say Apple has dropped their party manners and shown the
knives.

Unfortunately android is the only possible competitor I see, and the carriers
have pretty much guaranteed that android won't be any freer for users or
developers.

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rmATinnovafy
I'll wait this one out to see if the issue snowballs. Either way, this could
turn out to be a positive PR tactic. God luck to the flattr team.

------
Steqheu
I think we DDoS'd them.

~~~
karl_nerd
considered brokep from the pirate bay is heavily involved in flattr, i'm a
little bit disappointed the site went down

~~~
chinmoy
That is the exact thing that crossed my mind. brokep Peter Sunde is not only
heavily involved, he is the founder.

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bangbang
I hope they planned for this. Hinging an entire business on the decision of a
3rd party is Russian roulette.

~~~
sirclueless
Flattr is fundamentally a web company, competing with Google's +1 button and
Facebook's Like button more than than Paypal donations, even if users _are_
spending real money. This is just a potential new arena for Flattr, and not
their core business.

------
sparknlaunch12
Unlucky you have been curtailed by Apple for now but sure you can rework your
model to fit within what is allowable. Keep persevering as you seem to have
built a useful application.

~~~
Siimteller
Thanks, as said in the post - we’ll keep at it as the only way to find out
what’s cool with Apple and what’s not is to submit stuff to them and hope to
have a constructive dialog.

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tzs
OT design suggestion: when you have a corporate blog, have a prominent link
somewhere on the top that goes to your main site.

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radimm
Rejected by Apple and the 'Paypal suxx' on their desk. Tough luck

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recoiledsnake
Would the app have been approved if Apple was given 30% of the proceeds? I am
guessing yes.

~~~
taligent
Would the app have been approved if they had followed Apple's guidelines? I am
guessing yes.

~~~
duaneb
Isn't that the same thing?

