
Ask HN: Ways to deal with ADHD? - throwaway_adhd
I really value here the interesting and intelligent perspectives of the HN readers which taught me a lot, maybe even now for dealing with ADHD.<p>About me:<p>Had a huge crisis doing my bachelor degree was almost dropping out (same in high school), was also dealing with anxiety and feeling depressed and thus tried a lot of experimental things to &quot;cure&quot; me. In the end I just barely managed to pass my bachelor degree in CS (with an extension-semester) and doing now my masters.<p>The experimental things that I did so far: 
-Doing 3 10-day meditation retreats to make me feel less stressed and overwhelmed. 
-Meditating at home(although it&#x27;s often difficult to maintain this habit)
-2-3 times a year LSD to have a mental reset if I feel stuck(cleaning my turmoil, refocus on the important). Recently also two times mircodosed LSD on days where I&#x27;m stressed or depressed to have more energy.
-Doing an Ayahuasca retreat last year in Peru was somewhat helpful to learn stuff about me, but did not help me be more productive<p>I feel like all these things are just a patch on my ADHD problem. I feel thrilled and motivated for a few days or weeks and then my usual self creeps back with only slight improvements that remain. 
I&#x27;m not really motivated and only get things done when I feel the guilt and pressure built up. I had several ideas to build my own little project but I never managed to make anything all these years on my own (motivation is gone after a few hours of work). I feel if I continue like this I will struggle through all my life: Always distract myself to hide from negative emotions(because I&#x27;m overwhelmed), always having trouble to have focus, always just do the minimum and as a result be miserable with myself because I won&#x27;t satisfy my high ambitions and dreams.<p>An approach would be medication but prefer not to take this route or just as a last resort.<p>What were your approaches and experiences that helped you? (no matter how extreme or strange)
======
hluska
First off, see a doctor and get a diagnosis. Avoid the drugs. Ritalin or its
time released bastard cousin Concerta are bad news...in my opinion (I'm not a
doctor), they're both worse than cocaine.

Second, if you are on the ADHD spectrum, you will need to change your attitude
towards ADHD. Yeah, it makes certain environments less productive, and it can
create a whole world of problems in personal relationships. However, ADHD can
also be extremely helpful.

For me, ADHD is my secret weapon. My brain is simply better equipped to see
all sides of an issue. And, for me at least, ADHD is a big part of my creative
process. When I brainstorm, my mind can move through possibilities faster than
in a non-ADHD mind.

If you are going to learn to live with ADHD, you have to change your attitude
towards it. Yes, it's tough, but it is also an incredible gift.

Third, while meditation is useful, drumming is likely the single best way that
I found to treat my ADHD. The drummer's mindset and effortless focus are
amazing training for those times when you really need to focus on one thing.

Fourth, carry around a notebook and diary out your life. Keep track of what
you eat, drink, do and your moods. Make special note of times when your ADHD
is worse than others and try to figure out the triggers. One of my major
triggers is a lack of water. If I'm even slightly dehydrated, holy shit, I
don't know who you are or what I was talking about, but a bird just flew by my
window....

~~~
throwaway_adhd
>First off, see a doctor and get a diagnosis. Avoid the drugs. Ritalin or its
time released bastard cousin Concerta are bad news...in my opinion (I'm not a
doctor), they're both worse than cocaine.

If I should avoid drugs why going to a doctor? The symptoms match that good
that I don't have much doubt anymore that I have ADHD(and not only the obvious
symptoms match, but also stuff like eg terrible time management, I have barely
any intuition about time and often am late with no ill will)

> Second, if you are on the ADHD spectrum, you will need to change your
> attitude towards ADHD. Yeah, it makes certain environments less productive,
> and it can create a whole world of problems in personal relationships.
> However, ADHD can also be extremely helpful.

Could you please expand on that. What environments do you avoid and which do
you seek? (calm ones?)

>Fourth, carry around a notebook and diary out your life. Keep track of what
you eat, drink, do and your moods. Make special note of times when your ADHD
is worse than others and try to figure out the triggers.

Will try that out

Thank you for your input.

~~~
hluska
Thanks for your reply!!

If I were you, I'd still go to a doctor and get a complete work up, including
blood and urine tests. That way, you can rule out any physical conditions that
could be causing your symptoms. It sounds like you have ADHD, but that way,
you know there isn't something underlying (and easily treatable) that is
causing these symptoms.

It's more of an insurance policy, I guess.

As for environments, I know that some places just will not be productive for
me unless I take strong steps. For example, fluorescent lights and total
silence are a bad combination for me. If I work in a dev pit, I need
headphones and carefully curated playlists. If I get bored and start hunting
for better music, I'm screwed for the rest of the day. If I sit somewhere
where people are constantly walking by in my peripheral vision, I'm going to
have problems.

I sound like a lovely guy to invite to parties...

But, ADHD is my secret weapon, so sometimes I want to enhance the symptoms. If
I'm in a group setting, I'm most productive when we deviate from the agenda.
Little bits of small talk mixed in with 'business' get my creative juices
flowing. If you let me go, I'll come back (eventually) with something. If I
expose myself to chaos, chaos often rewards me with interesting ideas!

Good luck! And, if you need anything, my email is in my profile!

------
PaulHoule
It sounds like you are already using medication, just not ones that are
approved by the FDA.

Do not be afraid of antidepressants, these are particularly helpful for
anxiety and they don't have the drawbacks that benzodiazepines and other
"downers" have in terms of impaired memory, learning and balance. For best
results you might end up trying a few different dosages and/or medications,
maybe seeing your doc every month for a few months, possibly making medication
changes over the phone.

Meditation is good, but regular exercise should be the first line therapy for
most mental health issues: a good goal would be to do 1 hour of cardio 5 days
a week. It is good even if you do half of that, but it takes most people about
45 minutes to start experiencing the "Runner's High"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurobiological_effects_of_phy...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurobiological_effects_of_physical_exercise)

As for amphetamines, Ritalin, etc. I can say that I don't know any young
adults who are taking those drugs to get into a high-functioning zone. I do
know older (65+) people who use them to shake grogginess and I know children
who seem to be doing OK.

I have been told, and I have learned, to give no quarter to negative thoughts
such as you have described. It is not so easy to do because it so compelling,
but trying to explore them in great detail tends to increase their power over
you more than decrease it.

~~~
throwaway_adhd
>It sounds like you are already using medication, just not ones that are
approved by the FDA.

For me the difference is not if something is FDA approved or not but if I
depend everyday on something new.

Because of a difficult time in high school I spent most of my time before the
computer as an escape. This escape showed me also my addictive personality and
the following negative consequences. And thus I'm now very reluctant to add
anything addiction-like to my daily life. I never even tried coffee so far.

> Do not be afraid of antidepressants

Don't they make you dull and feel nothing? Also I wanted to focus on ADHD and
not on depression/anxiety because I want to have good grades. The depression &
anxiety I think I can more or less handle until the end of my masters and get
by.

> Meditation is good, but regular exercise should be the first line therapy
> for most mental health issues: a good goal would be to do 1 hour of cardio 5
> days a week. It is good even if you do half of that, but it takes most
> people about 45 minutes to start experiencing the "Runner's High"

Thanks, did know that there are some benefits in doing sports but not to that
extent. Already cycle 10m to the train station every day and sometimes make
kettle bell exercises. Will try to do more sports.

> As for amphetamines, Ritalin, etc. I can say that I don't know any young
> adults who are taking those drugs to get into a high-functioning zone. I do
> know older (65+) people who use them to shake grogginess and I know children
> who seem to be doing OK.

Although I don't want to try ADHD drugs, here I read a counter point:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12345234](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12345234)

>I have been told, and I have learned, to give no quarter to negative thoughts
such as you have described. It is not so easy to do because it so compelling,
but trying to explore them in great detail tends to increase their power over
you more than decrease it.

Yes that's indeed true, it's so easy to think negative. Thanks for sharing
your insights.

~~~
PaulHoule
Different people may experience it differently, but for me SSRIs improve my
ability to "keep it together" under stress, particularly in terms of
irritability. If not getting angry because somebody cuts in front of me while
driving means my emotions are blunted, I am happy to have my emotions blunted.
I certainly do feel pleasure, joys and pain, but I find negative emotions have
less command over me.

What is a consistent observation is that SSRI drugs retard (delay) the sexual
response so that in general you are less interested and take more time and
more stimulation for the experience to progress.

This can vary from "I took a Lexapro and did not think about sex for a whole
week but I've been so busy thinking about other things I just noticed now" to
"My partner likes it that I last longer in bed" to "My partner is furious that
I'm not as interested as they are" to "I feel like I am not myself".

------
techjuice
The best thing to do is for ADHD is to see a medical professional. I have meet
so many people that self diagnosed their issues and were wrong on the
treatment plan 100% of the time as none of them were medical professionals. By
not doing so you are unfortunately just wasting time and money as the problem
gets worse over time.

Most of the time they needed to take medication for awhile to help rebalance
their brain because something was off balance. Over time things rebalance and
they no longer needed to take as much medication or no longer need to take any
medication because things rebalanced.

The bulk of answers people find online are temporary placebos that never
actually helped to permanently solve or reduce the problem because what they
were taking or doing were not carefully planned by a medical professional. So
my recommendation is to go see the Doc, they will either work with you to do a
non medical treatment plan and/or you may need to take medication to resolve
the issue. Just note that since it is a mental disorder the only way to
resolve it is by using professional medical help by a therapist, physiatrist
and or a physician. Do not feel bad seeing a doctor, it is better to seek
professional help to try and resolve the problem.

~~~
throwaway_adhd
Thanks for your insight but my anxiety and ego both make it difficult to look
for help. And thus the easier option is for me right now to try the advises of
the other users first and only afterwards (if still failing) go meet a
physician. But you're probably right and I'm just stubborn and stupid

------
Hasknewbie
Two suggestions:

\- Long term fix: try Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), an evidence-based
form of psychological treatment that doesn't have a lot in common with your
usual pseudo-scientific Freudian psychoanalysis where you get to pay a shrink
every month for ten years and see no improvement. The main idea behind CBT is
to go against the grain, so it's the opposite of bullshit spiritual retreats
in Peru to do LSD (no offense). For example if you have agoraphobia and cannot
take the bus, your 'exercise' will be to actually take it, but just for one
stop, then two, etc, and keep doing that regularly to 'chip away' the phobia
without triggering a panic attack. CBT is process-driven so there are quite a
few self-help-style books, and you can start working on this by yourself. DO
contact a professional if you feel this could work but are blocked, though.
Books recommended by the ACBT (they list a few titles covering ADHD):
[http://www.abct.org/SHBooks/](http://www.abct.org/SHBooks/)

\- Short term fix: I bought a Xiaomi Mi Band 2. It's a shitty smartwatch, and
an even worse fitness/sleep tracker. But. But I also bought a third party Mi
Band control app (the official Xiaomi one is mostly useless), "Mi Band Tools"
that can set an arbitrary number of vibrating alarms/reminders. Every morning
I change/customize the alarm vibration to avoid getting used to it, decide
what my main task of the day will be (i.e. what "idea" I associate with the
alarm when it is triggered), then set that reminder to buzz every N minutes.
During the rest of the day, every N minutes I am either already working on
what I had planned to do, or am reminded I must refocus right now. It's not
something I need when working as part of a team, but for some reason when I'm
on a solo project I cannot get anything meaningful done without this hack.

Hope this helps.

~~~
throwaway_adhd
>Long term fix: try Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)

I started a few months ago David Burns Feeling Good book. But unfortunately
procrastinated reading it further, thanks for reminding me to finish it
finally.

>"The main idea behind CBT is to go against the grain" [...] "it's the
opposite of bullshit spiritual retreats in Peru "

I had on my first trip some mixture of feeling of dying(the burning in hell
kind of dying), a panic attack and an existential crisis. So I don't think
that this is the opposite of going against the grain. I got really confronted
with the negative aspects of myself (although nothing lasting came from it
eventually). But I get your point, your approach is to grow oneself more stoic
and stronger instead of having feel-nice experiences.

> Short term fix: I bought a Xiaomi Mi Band 2

Will buy one, thanks for your advice

~~~
Hasknewbie
>> I had on my first trip some mixture of feeling of dying(the burning in hell
kind of dying), a panic attack and an existential crisis.

Yes, I should have kept the snark in check. I come from a family that drank
the alternative medicine Kool-Aid, so am quite dismissive of it. My point was
that alternative medicine usually sells itself as soothing / non-threatening,
and sometime also (as in your case) as 'transformative', which in my opinion
is no better: your attempt might very well have ended up badly and left you
worse off, with an additional trauma. Opting for feel-good or miraculous
solutions is often a red flag that one is caught in a pattern of avoidance. If
you want to solve a personal problem, you have to sit down and do a thorough
assessment, and accept any strong evidence that comes out of it, whether you
like it or not.

------
Bucephalus355
I am going to come out here strongly in favor of medication.

All of the natural stuff you've been trying, the meditation, the emotional
stuff, it's good and I appreciate it, but it just doesn't work significantly.

As a society we have lots of "medication guilt" I've noticed. I don't know
where this comes from, but it would be interesting to have a sociologist
explore.

Western Society is a very cognitively demanding society. It places lots of
strain on our brain and mental capacities. The idea that most people can do
very well using their limited cognitive resources is to me as unrealistic as
the idea that most people can just fight "regular diseases" using their body
and no vaccines, antibiotics, or other treatments.

I see a lot of guilt too around "being dependent" on medicine. I've never
gotten this either. We're incredibly dependent on food. We take it everyday.
Personality changes dramatically as well. That to me is an argument that while
interesting and having good points, doesn't really help anyone at the end of
the day.

Medication does have bad parts. A good example would be people increasing
dosage of a medicine when in reality they need to get their diet in order.
Also, as I write below, you'll probably get a non-effective / bad medicine
your first go around since you have to find the right one and work at it.

So what approaches helped me? \- Anticonvulsant medication. This medicine is
an alternative to typical antidepressants. I've seen very little written about
it, but seizure reducing medicines have been showing some very positive
results in treating depression. This is very good for nervousness and social
anxiety as well. \- All-cash psychiatrist. Find a psychiatrist in your city
who doesn't take insurance. I really believe in insurance, but in this case,
those who don't take it will be the best. You are looking at $400ish for the
first appointment. \- Better diet. The book "How Not To Die" is very simply
written. Ugh so many medicine people have elaborate programs and actually make
their books hard to understand so you have to buy more materials. Dr. Greger
is very good. Yeah I realize 15 other people are saying something different
but just trust me on this.

~~~
corporateslave2
Have you tried ADD medication? It is legalized speed, all of it. Try taking
that for ten years and see how your health and life ends up. Come back and
reread this post.

Antipsychotics stop schizophrenics from going psychotic by shutting down
dopamine receptors, essentially lobotomizing the brain. Patients are brain
dead after 15 to 20 years of taking those.

Opiod addiction doesnt need much introduction.

Adderall/Ritalin/Concerta/Dexedrine are all cocaine analogs that force the
brain to overuse dopamine. Results in long term structure of neurons that
irreversible. The evidence of this is ampheatmine tolerance that does not
reverse (the brain is forever fried/changed).

The jist of the matter is that what goes up must come down, there is no free
lunch with drugs. The brain adjusts and down/upregualtes receptors.

~~~
true_religion
I have taken adderall consistently for the past 13 years. I began as an adult.
As for my health, I am in better shape today than when I first begun despite
now being well past middle age. As for tolerance, I will take a maximum of
15mg per day, which is the same limit I was first prescribed to. My daily
regime still holds at 5mg, with holidays.

~~~
corporateslave2
Nice, is it still effective for you at that dosage (compared to when you first
started)?

Mind if I ask, have you ever taken above the prescribed dosage?

~~~
Powerofmene
I was at one time diagnosed with narcolepsy and was taking 20 mg Adderall tabs
to get out of bed and 30 mgs Adderall XR 2x a day w/ 200 mg Provigil 2 x a
day. Initially, I did not sleep for 2 days and on average only slept 3-4 hours
after that. I finally saw a neurologist who specializes in sleep issues said
my previous dr had me totally jacked up and dialed it back tremendously. Now,
a 10 mg tab in morning and 1 XR a few hours later along w 200 mg of Provigil
is my sweet spot for productivity and allows me to get 6 hrs of sleep a night.
Six hours seems to be my optimal number of hours of sleep in order to think
clear etc.

I can tell you when you are taking as much as they had me on initially, you
tend to focus on the minutiae around you rather than the issues at hand. Over
use of a drug like Adderall is not advisable. I would never intentionally over
use my meds. I can tell you when I had to come off of the tons my first dr had
me on in order to do a sleep study it was excruciating. My head hurt so bad I
thought I was having a stroke. It was the worst 5 days of my life and I never
want to repeat that experience. Don't overtake these meds and it is good to
take med breaks when you can in order for them to be as effective as possible.
However, I will tell you during med breaks you will be super tired but it is
worth it in the long run.

------
JSeymourATL
Are you SURE it's ADHD?

No blood test or CT scan can tell you if you have the condition — the
diagnosis is made by subjective clinical evaluation and screening
questionnaires. This lack of any bright line between pathology and
eccentricity, Schwarz argues, has allowed Big Pharma to get away with
relentless expansion of the franchise.

[http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/books/review/adhd-
nation-a...](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/books/review/adhd-nation-alan-
schwarz.html)

~~~
throwaway_adhd
Isn't the condition often genetic? [0] And thus would be at least partially
detectable.

I agree there is no bright line to make a distinction between ADHD and non-
ADHD but the more I read about it and the people who say they have ADHD, the
more I'm convinced to have ADHD too.

This maybe medically relevant or not but there's at least a cluster of people
with very similar experiences to mine. And thus the hope exists to get
relevant and good advise from persons who struggle with the same stuff as me
(be it with lifestyle changes or drugs)

[0]
[https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Attention_deficit_hyperact...](https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder)

------
bsvalley
Symptoms >> Doctor appointment

Doctor >> Diagnosis

Diagnosis >> Treatment

Treatment >> Positive results (if negative, Doctor will explore a different
solution)

------
ccarter84
Little late, but check out Gabor Mate's "Scattered: How Attention Deficit
Disorder Originates and What You Can Do About It"

I'll admit I only read about 1/5 of it and ...wandered off, but now that I'm
thinking about it again it's time to put it back at the top of the book pile.

Since I've considered trying many of the same routes you've taken, but have
only done Adderall and some anti-depressants at various stages in life.

It works to help realize how messy my place is or to get necessary (deadline-
driven) work tasks done, but historically has also led to increased anxiety,
tunnel-vision (lack of creativity) and often ends with me stopping for a
period due to feeling exceptionally drained feeling after prolonged usage.

I don't like the concept of being on meds for life, but I also would like to
keep the job I have until I find one that's more suited to my temperament in
this regard...so, tbd on that. Good luck!

------
starwaver
that sounds like me a lot :) It doesn't sound like ADHD but rather a common
procrastination habit (my apologize if you are actually medically diagnosed
though).

I have problem focusing on things that I'm not interested in as well, but I've
learnt to accept that and not feel too guilty about it. Especially since
sometime procrastination has some pretty nifty benefits:
[https://www.ted.com/talks/adam_grant_the_surprising_habits_o...](https://www.ted.com/talks/adam_grant_the_surprising_habits_of_original_thinkers)

What I've found really helpful for things I need to get done but have trouble
doing is to make a to do list (highly recommend the Todoist app). And put in
things to do in the list for each day. For example, do assignment A for 20
minutes, do assignment B for 20 minutes, exercise for 30 minutes etc. Make
sure you make it simple enough such that it feels achievable (don't put things
like finish an entire assignment as a task unless you know it's a short one).
This helps me put myself in short burst focus mode and actual be productive
instead of trying to be productive and totally failing at it. Not everyone can
handle the 12 hour work day and I don't think you should force yourself to. I
myself can only work for 3 hours most before getting exhausted (with plenty of
rest in between), but I can do these 3 hours at hyper-focus mode and get more
done than what other people can do in 8 hours.

The core things to do are: \- accept the fact that not everything interest you
and you'll be able to do it with focus. There's a myth in society that the
longer you work the harder you work. Totally not true. \- don't overwhelm
yourself with tons of tasks, the key is to make it seem like it's really easy
to do to get things done. The more overwhelmed you feel the less motivated you
are to get started. \- take a walk if you are getting depressed or
overwhelmed, it helps A LOT! \- And don't be afraid to try different things!
Maybe you are just stuck in a bad career :)

~~~
starwaver
One other thing that helps. Try to figure out your personality style and see
what you are like:
[https://www.16personalities.com/](https://www.16personalities.com/)

------
safanycom
I would head to reddit r/adhd and spend a month watching the posts

Most of the comments here are low quality

~~~
throwaway_adhd
Am subscribed since 2 weeks but their general advise is to take ADHD drugs (at
least as far as I can see).

I wanted to give my best try to find a non-drug solution first and thus wrote
here.

------
DanBC
If you lived in England this is what you could expect from the NHS:

ADHD diagnosis and management:
[https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg72](https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg72)

ADHD overview: [https://pathways.nice.org.uk/pathways/attention-deficit-
hype...](https://pathways.nice.org.uk/pathways/attention-deficit-
hyperactivity-disorder)

ADHD improving quality of treatment:
[https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/qs39](https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/qs39)

------
Mz
Look up nutritional approaches and lifestyle approaches. If you want to avoid
medication, that's the best way to do it.

------
keithflower
See a physician.

------
mars4rp
does anybody tried or knows about neurofeedback????

------
corporateslave2
I would stop using psychedelics they are not healthy for the brain. Also avoid
ADD medications at all costs.

Try L-Theanine and Caffeine combination in a 2:1 ratio. L-Theanine is very
safe, it is a calming drug that also enhances focus. When used with caffeine
it reduces the negative effects of jitters/anxiety while increasing focus. It
is the calming agent in tea.

I was on medication for a long time and it was a nightmare.

There is only one solution:

The combo I outlined above (which is actually amazing), good diet, good
exercise, and good sleep.

~~~
throwaway_adhd
>I would stop using psychedelics they are not healthy for the brain

Source? So far I read the opposite, eg [0]

>Try L-Theanine and Caffeine combination in a 2:1 ratio

How do you consume this? Pills?

[0] [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/12146975/Taking-
LSD-...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/12146975/Taking-LSD-leads-to-
improved-psychological-wellbeing-study.html)

~~~
corporateslave2
>Try L-Theanine and Caffeine combination in a 2:1 ratio How do you consume
this? Pills?

Yeah, generally I take a 200 mg pill. It's worth giving a shot, the effects
wont be as strong as amphetamines, but they will make a difference. People say
to start with 200mg Theanine and 100mg caffeine, this depends on your caffeine
tolerance. Coffee is preferable to caffeine pills, as there are beneficial
additives.

>I would stop using psychedelics they are not healthy for the brain Source? So
far I read the opposite, eg [0]

This was anecdotal, but everyone I know (and I know alot of people) who took a
ton of psychedelics was noticibly slower. I have also dosed LSD and felt that
it negatively affected my cognition. They have such a dramatic effect on the
pysche, it is really hard to believe they leave no effects. Also, the amount
of research that has been has been near zero. All we have are the acid
casualities of the 60s.

Also levels of well being is seperate from ability to focus.

