
Chromebooks Gaining on iPads in School Sector - danso
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/chromebooks-gaining-on-ipads-in-school-sector
======
jhardcastle
Our school (K-12, east coast, I'm IT director) has purchased hundreds of both
devices in the past 4 years. We started with 3:1 iPads in the first year,
distributed evenly throughout the school. We very quickly realized that the
iPad is not the right device for any student who ever needs to type anything,
and the "enterprise" management from the MDM providers (who are handcuffed by
the atrocious tools, including Apple Configurator, that Apple provides) is
pretty awful compared to the outstanding and couldn't-be-easier management
through the Chrome Management Console.

So now we purchase iPads for prekindergarten through second grade, and
Chromebooks for 3 and 4. Starting in grade 5, we have a mandatory BYOD and the
Chromebook is our recommended device. In the middle school (5-8) the
Chromebook takes 65% of the market share (versus Apple 30% and other <5%). In
the upper school (9-12) it's more a 50/50 split Apple/Google.

It's just so hard to discount the functionality of a real keyboard in any
school where typing (and consequently writing) matters. Google Docs on an iPad
is still awful, despite lots of improvements in the past few years. Still, if
it were up to me, the lack of management tools for the Apple side (each device
requires a LOT of manipulation by hand to install apps, update software,
manage accounts, etc) would be the deciding factor and I'd never buy another
iPad again.

Edit: I just wanted to clarify that our "BYOD" program 5-12 is a laptop
program. That's 65% Chromebooks and ~30% Mac laptops in grades 5-8, not iPads.
We don't allow the iPad for the program requirements, though we permit their
use as long as the student _also_ has a full-sized laptop.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
> Starting in grade 5, we have a mandatory BYOD and the Chromebook is our
> recommended device.

Is this a public school or private? In a public school I cannot imagine that
that is legal since it is highly regressive. And before you say a Chromebook
is "only" $150-200, that is 1/2 of someone's pay cheque and many are living
pay cheque to pay cheque as is.

Even school uniforms are seen as a hardship for the poor. Doing freaking
computers is just mind boggling to me.

~~~
cableshaft
Buying a TI graphing calculator was mandatory for my math class in 7th grade
~20 years ago, and those were around $120, or $200 if adjusted for inflation.
That was at a public school, and that was only useful for a single subject,
not every class in school.

~~~
fnordfnordfnord
Such a racket TI has going there.

------
arianvanp
Since February we use chromebooks for taking exams at Utrecht University. The
tests are just kiosk apps and the chromebooks are easily managed using Googles
administrator tools. Works like a charm. Was cheap too. The whole project cost
less than 200,000 euros to set up. Chromebooks are dirt cheap so when one
breaks we simply replace it. I think we've got like 400-500 of them and are
planning to get more because students are pretty happy with them.

[http://pers.uu.nl/studenten-digitaal-tentamen-
toetsvoorzieni...](http://pers.uu.nl/studenten-digitaal-tentamen-
toetsvoorziening/)

(Disclosure: I'm one of the students who helped set up all the chromebooks)

~~~
jdeibele
In your experience, what makes a Chromebook break? My two daughters love their
Chromebooks but they both cracked their screens. I suspect one was picked up
by the lid, which you can do with a tablet but not a laptop. I ended up
replacing them both for about $40-$45 from Amazon or eBay.

Replacement screens were pretty easy to put in, though I got impatient and
yanked on the cable. Then I had to order a replacement cable. But those are
relatively easy to come by as people take the parts from seriously broken
Chromebooks and put them on eBay. Buying the Acer C720 line means tons of
parts readily available. Not sure about other models or manufacturers.

~~~
arianvanp
Since february we only had one chromebook break of 400. Reason was unclear. It
just wouldn't boot. We use the Acer Chromebook 13's. they actually seem pretty
abuse-resistent so far. I couldn't really tell you what makes a chromebook
break as we haven't had so many cases yet...

------
digi_owl
Cromebooks are in essence netbooks 2.0. Only this time round you have Google
backing them from top to bottom, rather than hardware OEMs getting "good
deals" from Intel and MS in exchange for dropping the concept.

~~~
adamc
Yes and no. The original netbooks claimed some ability to run native apps, but
did it poorly. Chromebooks don't claim to be more than Chrome, but do that
well. A small part of this is Google Docs, but a bigger part is the general
rise of webapps.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
> The original netbooks claimed some ability to run native apps, but did it
> poorly.

Back during the peak of the Netbook, my main PC went down. While I waited for
parts I hooked up an ASUS Eee PC with Windows XP. Not only was it able to
drive a 21" monitor, but also Skype video chat, my browser, and full screen
YouTube without any stuttering or issues.

Netbooks got a bad rep' but frankly they were incredible value for money and
even to this day have a somewhat unique form factor. Sure, you can buy
ultrabooks, but they're a lot bigger and still heavier, plus they cost
$800-1000+.

So I guess my only point is, sure, Netbooks are limited. They cannot game
realistically, and full screen HD video is about the height of their
potential. But they still do a lot of stuff extremely well, could run Office
flawlessly, as could they run browsers.

Chromebooks have limited functionality, but not because it HAS to be that way,
but because that is the product Google is selling. That's fine, but let's not
pretend that Netbook's inferiority was the reason. And even if we pretend that
it was, the hardware today kicks what Netbooks had in the butt.

------
pinaceae
Microsoft could have been close to this, but Google is really executing here.

Make no mistake, this is not about the Hardware - this is training kids on an
office suite. GDocs as a long game against MS Office 365. Kids get older,
habits and skills stay. Brought up on Gmail, GDocs they will have issues with
Word, Excel.

MS better step up.

~~~
greggyb
While I agree in terms of casual use, it is important to note that for a power
user, nothing can hold a candle to Microsoft Office. I speak primarily from
experience in Excel, but I am sure there are points to be made across the
suite.

Excel as a business analyst's tool is far beyond any competitors. Especially
since 2010, with the Power Pivot add-on, you get a seamless promotion path
from analyst's desktop to a fully integrated BI solution across the
enterprise.

I know I might sound a bit fanboyish above, and I'll acknowledge that I speak
from my position as a BI consultant for a Microsoft partner. This being said,
I'm also in a position where I have seen that transition where an analyst's
local Power Pivot workbook becomes the basis for an enterprise reporting
solution using SSAS and Power BI + SSRS many times.

~~~
Mikeb85
> Excel as a business analyst's tool is far beyond any competitors.

Honestly, Excel (or any spreadsheet really) is quite clunky for a lot of these
tasks.

In most of my University classes (economics/finance stream) that require me to
analyse data and present it, I use R (w/ R Studio), and it's far superior -
both for parsing the data, and for presenting it (and of course R is standard
for any statistics course beyond the intro courses). R can even create 'pivot
tables' and many other interactive HTML widgets.

And while we still learn Excel, we were also forced to learn Python and SQL.

~~~
greggyb
I don't disagree with anything you've said.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of business analysts and 100%[0]
of the consumers of their analysis are only comfortable with a spreadsheet.
I'd say less than 50% of the business analysts we see can do more than write a
join in SQL, 90% dump data straight to Excel for processing and presentation.
The remaining 10% will use whatever BI tool their company has decided on.

[0] Close enough not to matter.

Note: the percentages above are based on my experience consulting with
primarily non-tech-related clients and are based on my casual observations and
those of my coworkers. Microsoft Excel has a stranglehold on the niche we're
discussing, because it hits the sweet spot of functionality and usability for
the people who are doing this work in most companies.

~~~
Mikeb85
And I suspect it will change over time. The newer generation has much, much
higher computer literacy.

Programming (Python and SQL) is required in the University I attend for any
stream beyond a basic language degree. R is required for stats.

My mother is a business analyst, she uses Excel. Needs to find the IT guy to
do anything with a database. Building a database and doing complex queries was
an assignment in a required introductory course I took as a freshman. She
thinks pivot tables are black magic and prides herself on knowing how to make
them. We did pivot tables in two 50-minute classes.

I don't doubt your experience at all. But I do think Excel's stranglehold
is/will weaken - it's clunky, and newer generations are learning programming
even in non-CPSC streams.

------
jdeibele
The one thing that drives me mad about the Chromebooks is Google Cloud Print.
We don't use it very often and every time we do, it's broken. I don't know if
it's something in our Brother printer or on the Chromebooks and I really,
really, really don't care.

I just want to be able to connect the Chromebook to the printer and print.

AirPrint, on the same printer, works every time from my MacBook. But it
doesn't require a "printer manager" to figure out what the printer's IP # is,
point a browser to it, login, then use the admin interface to give permission
to people via email and those people to click on the email.

It's Linux underneath so I don't understand why that can't be used to talk to
CUPS or LPD or something similar in the same way the file system is used.

~~~
Adaptive
Google Cloud Print is definitely a weak link in my opinion. I've set up a full
chromebook deployment for my daughter's school including rollout of GCP, and
there are still occasional hiccups with printing (for example management of a
stuck queue is obfuscated).

However it has improved a lot and management (once you get your head around
it) is really great.

For example, you can easily provision printers to either groups or devices, so
teachers can be provisioned on the user level while students are restricted to
printing from provisioned devices.

------
jostmey
The problem with a tablet is that it makes for a terrible input device.
Tablets are awesome for media consumption, though.

~~~
melling
Can't you simply add a Bluetooth keyboard? I think cost is the major factor.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Sure. But now you have a two part device, with more that can go wrong, and
broadly speaking a worse typing experience.

There's something to be said for the stereotypical laptop form factor.

~~~
melling
There sure is something to be said... They're horrible keyboards. We're going
to give more kids RSI.

[http://looknohands.me/](http://looknohands.me/)

[http://24ways.org/2014/dont-push-through-the-
pain/](http://24ways.org/2014/dont-push-through-the-pain/)

[http://markmcb.com/2014/10/13/severe-hand-rsi-pain-and-
recov...](http://markmcb.com/2014/10/13/severe-hand-rsi-pain-and-recovery/)

We need more wireless ergonomic keyboards.

[https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/the-model-01-an-
heir...](https://h4labs.wordpress.com/2015/07/16/the-model-01-an-heirloom-
grade-keyboard-for-serious-typists/)

------
abluecloud
I guess they're realising that they're slightly more useful than iPads, and
cheaper.

~~~
joezydeco
It's all about Google Docs. My kids' elementary school has gone completely
gDocs for word processing and presentations (teacher _and_ student areas). No
more thumb drives for collaboration, and bringing work home is transparent.

~~~
tracker1
I don't think it has to be one thing... I think that they are less expensive,
and more usable are big things... having a separate keyboard for typing on is
definitely a better use case for many over an on-screen keypad that takes up
half the screen.

gDocs is probably a big influence as well... as an all around value, I really
like the Chromebooks... from a security standpoint, I tend to like them for
mom & granda even more... (with uBlock)

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
They're also easier to centrally manage and are completely user agnostic
devices. iPads can be made to be use agnostic devices also, but you have to
disable almost all of the built in apps (since iCloud doesn't really
accomplish it), and have people sign into some online service each time (e.g.
GApps, Office 365, etc).

There's something to be said for a device where you can just grab a new one
off of the laptop cart, install nothing, and login as any user with the full
experience available.

Windows domain-connected PCs kinda accomplish that, but with a lot more
management overhead.

~~~
jdeibele
I never tried FireFox Portable ... hmmm, looks like it requires a Windows
machine (or a Linux box running Wine)

That might have been interesting if Mozilla had been able to get it to run on
Macs.

We have a spare/guest Chromebook and it's been nice to hand it to one of my
two daughters when they've cracked the screen. I'm not in IT but I'm just
imagining how much easier Chromebooks would make my life. Especially if the
management software is even halfway-good.

------
tigeba
I have two kids in elementary school, K and 2nd grade. The last few years the
school district has been experimenting with Chromebook carts they would send
to various classrooms once or twice a week. This year, they went with
Chromebooks for all students K-12. The kids bring them home in the evening and
are expected to bring them to school every day. The K's have touch screen
Chromebooks to help mitigate their lack of typing skills.

I'm really interested to see how they will be using them. They have already
been using google docs and they have both been talking about email. Maybe they
will finally come to appreciate the vanity domains I registered for them when
they were born :)

------
atmosx
Tablets, generally speaking, are for consuming content. Laptops are better
devices for creating content...

~~~
digi_owl
In the end it all boils down to inputs.

Once you hitch a keyboard onto a tablet, there is no functional diffrerence
between it, a laptop, or this new iteration of the netbook.

~~~
yoz-y
Not really. The tablets also lack any kind of mouse support (well, at least
iPads do). A lot of software is optimised for mouse+keyboard, ton of it is
optimised for touch input, but there are not that many that support touch +
keyboard.

------
pjmlp
So while people are up in arms with Windows 10 and latest 7/8 updates, they
are ok with giving children information to Google!?

~~~
Mikeb85
And what info are they giving to Google?

Their search history for school projects which is collected and sorted by an
algorithm?

~~~
strange_quark
> And what info are they giving to Google? Their search history for school
> projects which is collected and sorted by an algorithm?

They give all the same usage information and probably more than Windows 10
sends to Microsoft. If you don't thing Google is collecting insane amounts of
data from Chromebooks, you're incredibly naive.

~~~
Mikeb85
And if you are signed into Google (from any browser) they collect your
information. Or if you use Gmail.

It's what they use for many of their services. I guess the question I'm asking
is more philosophical - if you 'opt in' to the Google ecosystem, why is this a
bad thing?

Up to now, there's been no indication Google abuses your data (unless you
consider algos to show you ads as 'abuse'), or that it ever leaves Google's
servers, or is ever even human-readable...

~~~
strange_quark
> if you 'opt in' to the Google ecosystem, why is this a bad thing?

In the same way, you 'opt in' to the Microsoft ecosystem by using Windows. The
problem is everyone seems to give Google a free pass because of free stuff.
What's crazy to me is that whenever Google expands the amount of information
they collect, they're praised for being so innovate. I mean, one of the "best"
new features of the next version of Android literally walks the entire view
hierarchy on your phone and sends it all too Google's servers, but god forbid
Microsoft collects some usage information and crash reports.

~~~
Mikeb85
No, people give Google a free pass because, even though they collect data,
they haven't visibly abused that trust.

MS has (as shown in other articles). Their EULA states it. But then they claim
they don't, and that Google are the bad guys.

------
blazespin
The great thing about chromebooks is less forced obsolescence, so fewer hw
upgrades required.

~~~
yoz-y
If the only thing you ever use is a web browser, then you could use a years
old iPad just fine. For students, keyboard is probably the biggest factor and
for schools it is the price.

------
amelius
I'm just amazed that in 2015 we can run videos on every possible platform,
same for viewing pdf documents, and even web-based applications.

But when it comes to simple "natively-integrated" applications, there is a
clear divide in platforms.

~~~
abalos
Well, one thing to consider is that "natively-integrated" applications are
slowly losing ground to cloud-based applications. Look at the apps for Chrome
- they run on Chromebooks, Mac, Windows, and Linux.

------
wodenokoto
It's amazing how different different communities can be. I have never seen a
chromebook in the wild that wasn't gifted by Google.

Guess I live more sheltered than I thought!

~~~
hahainternet
> It's amazing how different different communities can be. I have never seen a
> chromebook in the wild that wasn't gifted by Google.

Sure you have, it's just they're barely noticable. Little black laptops with a
web-browser open. Not all of them have big chrome logos on them.

------
kozukumi
Once Microsoft's new Edge browser matures I could see a free, locked down
version of Windows 10 being some serious competition for Chromebooks and
iPads.

~~~
andybak
I was going to say "Wouldn't it be too resource heavy?" \- meaning the whole
Windows baggage as opposed to the leaner ChromeOS.

But then I considered that the resource usage of Chrome (or Edge for that
matter) itself might be the single biggest factor.

~~~
dagw
They've got a version of Windows 10 that runs reasonably well on the Raspberry
PI 2 and I imagine most chromebook like devices have better specs that the
RPi2.

~~~
mkj
Not exactly, it's Windows IoT which doesn't really have a GUI. I agree with
the original comment, MS might follow suit with Edge.

~~~
dagw
Sure, but Windows IoT should be plenty good enough for Microsoft to build a
ChromeOS clone on top of it.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
And it wouldn't even be the first time. Microsoft had "Windows Embedded"
(Vista and XP) which did exactly that. Essentially a kiosk operating system
often used either for VB6 applications or for a web browser.

------
mark_l_watson
Off topic (educational computers) but I have mixed feelings about Chromebooks.
It seems like you give up a lot of privacy (potentially) but they are very
secure. The security is great for kids in school, but are advertising profiles
now being created for people when they are in K-12? (I love my Toshiba
Chromebook 2, so I hope I don't sound too critical of the platform.)

~~~
danieldk
Wouldn't they be using Google Apps for Education (I don't know)? If so, the
terms of that say that data covered by Apps will not be mined for ads:

 _Google Apps for Education services don 't collect or use student data for
advertising purposes or create ads profiles._

[https://support.google.com/a/answer/139019?hl=en](https://support.google.com/a/answer/139019?hl=en)

~~~
teacup50
They're still collecting the user data. And they're building a familiarity and
user reliance on cloud "apps".

------
CmonDev
From oversize iPods to glorified browser notebooks.

~~~
imauld
I have a full installation of Ubuntu running on my glorified browser notebook
and it can be used as a normal laptop. It performance can be a little slow
when working with very large data sets but on the other hand it was just about
$300 including tax so it was an enormously good deal.

I love it.

~~~
CmonDev
No Linux distributive is mentioned in that article. I have no doubt that a
combination of RAM, SSD and CPU can achieve great things with right software.

