
Ask HN: I am depressed. Should I take this PhD fellowship? - BrightMelon
I am 26 and I have been depressed for the last 6 years of my life. I have been working on this by doing psychotherapy among other things. 
Last year I moved to Germany in order to work as a software engineer (me asking for advice before doing that[0]). Recently I was offered a 3 year Marie Curie fellowship to become a PhD student with focus on geometry processing. 
Here are my pros and cons.<p>Pros:<p>- Currently I believe that I would be much more interested in doing research than continue working as a software engineer. I really like the idea of trying to solve problems that have not been solved and contributing to (open) science.<p>- Financially the fellowship is so good that I would earn the same amount of money as my current job. In addition I would not have any other obligations except research.<p>- The PhD city seems great and I would prefer to live there compared to the city I currently live in.<p>- I would be able to be a visiting researcher at great labs in cities I would like to visit.<p>Cons:<p>- I have been reading for the past weeks that mental health issues are quite common among PhD students[1]. Considering my mental state I am afraid that the PhD will break me mentally.<p>- I do not want to work in academia in the future. Ideally I would like to work remotely having a balance between research and coding (is this even possible?). This is my biggest concern, because it would not make sense to do it if it would not help me reach this goal.<p>- Doing a PhD takes a lot of commitment and I am unsure if I will still want to continue doing it in 2 years. If I eventually decided to drop out I would have wasted valuable resources of the scientific community and I do not like this.<p>- In a PhD you do not actually know where the finish line is. What if the three years pass, my fellowship ends and I have not finished?<p>[0]: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=17081778<p>[1]: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quora.com&#x2F;Why-are-PhD-students-so-depressed
======
rafiki6
I think taking any advice given here isn't a good idea. No one understands
your mental state or the root cause of your depression, and further no one
here is likely to be a trained mental health professional. Given your current
state of mind, I think it's important to have real conversations with real
people in the program and otherwise. Potentially see if you can get some time
with a current student in the program or with a trusted advisor.

Based on your list, there doesn't seem to be any real downsides to taking the
fellowship and pursuing a PhD. If you drop out, I wouldn't necessarily see it
as wasting anything. You learn valuable skills in a PhD that are certainly
transferable. The age old advice for pursuing research is only do it if you're
interested in it.

------
impendia
Hello! Academic mathematician here. Some thoughts --

\- I definitely second the advice to seek the advice of a mental health
professional, as well as people in the academic program in which you're
thinking about enrolling.

\- There are indeed mental health issues in academia. However, in mathematics
at least, most of the students I knew seemed to enjoy their experience.
Certainly I did.

If you don't want to work in academia, that might help with the mental health
issues. A major source of stress is that there are fewer academic jobs
available than people who want them. This is something you wouldn't have to
worry about.

\- The finish line will probably be wherever you find yourself in three years.
It is typical, and healthy, for PhD students to have tons of goals and to
accomplish only a few of them. A good advisor can help you set realistic
goals, and help you figure out a timeline for achieving them.

\- In my opinion, dropping out is okay if that's what you decide to do later.

\- If you enroll, I'd recommend keeping reasonable hours in the lab (don't
work for anyone who expects you to keep insane hours in the lab). Also, the
standard advice: eat healthy, get exercise, get outside your university
periodically, keep up a hobby or two.

Good luck!

------
superflit
Any decision you are making in your current state right now will be biased.

My advice after tutoring 4 Phds.

Choose the mentor not the field or program.

If you have a good mentor/professor it will make a big difference. You can
even work in "botanic" (non-related field) but he will find a way to make you
useful. And being useful is 70% of curing depression. We need to feel useful.

Check which professors are friendly and have time to real meet with you and
talk to you.

I choose mine based on that, some people laugh he was not an start and that he
loved star trek too much. Only me and other student finished ON TIME our Phds.

------
nextos
Whether your PhD fuels your depression and becomes incredibly difficult or
it's awesome largely depends on your supervisor.

It is relatively easy to spot supervisors that are simply rent seekers vs real
researchers.

The former will typically have an enormous amount of students and will publish
an impossible amount of publications per year.

If you need more tailored advice, you can find my email in my profile. I would
not discard the PhD option just because of your current health status. In
fact, a good PhD may leave you ample freedom, and that might be good to work
on your issues.

~~~
BrightMelon
I met with the professor yesterday and a post-doc with which I will have the
closest relationship. My impression was good, although they seemed very
worried about the case I declined and they would need to find another
candidate. Furthermore I asked two previous PhD students of theirs which are
not at this university anymore and they both spoke in high regard for both the
professor and the post-doc. I can also tell that their research is top. As
mentioned in my post I would like to be able to work remotely in the future.
Having a remote position is to me even more important compared to doing
research (although a combination of those two would be ideal). I am worried
about whether doing a PhD can prohibit me from achieving that, since I will be
gaining a lot of research experience but I will lack programming experience
(especially commercial programming experience). Am I overthinking it?

~~~
nextos
IMHO, you are overthinking it. If it looks good, go for it.

------
thinkingemote
I know three people who have done a phd. One quit in the last year and the
other two said the last year was the hardest they have ever worked. However
they were all in the humanities rather than the sciences. They said it's what
you should do to work in academia as a career. Note that a great many good
university teachers and researchers are doing part time PhDs instead of
getting their doctorate first.

I've considered it but the last year was hell for them and I don't want to do
that, neither do I want to be in academia as a career.

------
dmitripopov
How manageable is your depression now? Does it relapse often? What triggers
relapses? If your PhD field, or city, or mentor is a probable relapse trigger
then it's better to avoid this path. If your depression is under control now
with medications and counselling then why not?

~~~
BrightMelon
It is manageable and I do not get in this state anymore where I get paralyzed
by it. Almost always my mood deteriorates when I need to take a decision,
since this causes me a lot of stress. I cannot say if the field or the city
would stress me. The mentor seems quite relaxed and easy going.

------
kodz4
> Ideally I would like to work remotely having a balance between research and
> coding (is this even possible?)

This is possible depending on the network of contacts you develop. And PhD
programs and the conference circiut are a great place to meet interesting
people.

------
petra
>> Considering my mental state I am afraid that the PhD will break me
mentally.

It's huge risk. Almost nothing beats a good mental health, in my eyes.

Why do you feel the Phd is worth this risk ?

~~~
BrightMelon
Because:

1)It would allow me to do research in a field that I find interesting.

2)It would allow me to build up my research skills, enabling me to later find
a job that has this balance of research and coding which I mentioned in my
post. As a note, I applied this year at 4 positions which had this balance and
all of them rejected me. After asking what my main disadvantage with the
chosen candidate was all of them told me that he/she had a PhD in the field.

3)I would be able to see what I am capable of in solving interesting problems
and expanding human knowledge.

4)I believe in general, that pushing your self to the limits (even if you
fail) teaches you more compared to a comfortable situation. By that I do not
obviously mean that one should put oneself in every situation that stresses
him/her, but rather that one should attempt things even if they are difficult.

------
brador
Get a life and friend group outside your work. Its trite but make a list of
your hobbies and interests and identify ways to meet real people who share
those interests. You were never taught this. Learn by doing. Start now. Paper
and pen.

~~~
letsgo-gb
It's not that easy when you are clinically depressed. Sometimes you need
something to cure the physical and biological aspects of depression before you
can even consider having the mindset you need to "get a life and friend
group".

------
gcb0
you can't get a research job (your goal) without a phd. the fellowship pays
well, most depressed students are depressed because they are poor and hence
locked in the (toxic) uni environment. and lastly, semi joking, you're already
depressed, so worst you will continue, but hopefully the change will help it.

good luck! and start eating better, as it helps more than meds for some.

------
letsgo-gb
Try taking CBD instead. My depression is almost cured because of it. It helped
when prescription meds didn't.

