
Giant Panda no longer an endangered species - justinv
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/37273632
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richardw
Awesome for the bears (really), but I'm annoyed that China doesn't do more to
reduce demand for rhino horn, which is devastating the African rhino
population for absolutely no reason. Black rhino population is down 95%+ since
1960.

Other countries can definitely share the blame, but I would imagine China
would be more sensitive to the issue since they have their own endangered
species that we all celebrate.

~~~
jjcc
You comparison is valid ONLY IF Rhino lives in the area within China's
jurisdictional control. Panda and Rhino are different cases. Don't compare
apple with orange. Rhino could be saved if it was inside China.

Let me explain: What BBC failed to mention is that Chinese government put
death penalty[1] on Panda poachers. This is one of measures taken by
government among others. It could be a human right's violation but it's not
significant enough so BBC can choose to be blind. However to execute anybody
who dare to buy or sell Panda skin, it's going too far. Chinese government
would not do that other than threatening to do so.Killing drug dealer is
acceptable although controversial, killing drug consumer is not acceptable.

Go back to Panda vs Rhino: China have no control over poachers. Punishment on
illegal trade alone is not effective enough.

[1][http://www.riel.whu.edu.cn/article.asp?id=26339](http://www.riel.whu.edu.cn/article.asp?id=26339)

~~~
DominikR
I agree, it's as if one would accuse the drug consumer of being responsible
for Mexican drug cartels torturing and beheading innocent civilians which is
part of their business strategy.

That is not to say that I approve of drug abuse, but everyone can only be held
accountable for his own actions, not for the actions of others.

It would be something different if the Chinese government actively encouraged
import of Rhino parts, but they don't allow this as far as I know.

~~~
majewsky
> everyone can only be held accountable for his own actions, not for the
> actions of others.

Once the rockets are up / who cares where they come down, / „That's not my
department“, / says Wernher von Braun.

~~~
DominikR
Are you arguing that every drug abuser caught should be charged with murder?

You kill the Rhino, you are responsible for killing the Rhino.

You buy Rhino horn, you are responsible for buying illegal goods and creating
demand. (which is not equal to actually killing a Rhino or a human being!)

You fail as a government to prevent import of illegal goods, you are
responsible for not controlling imports with 100% accuracy.

You tell me if you know of any country in the world that is capable of
preventing imports of highly sought after illegal goods to a degree that puts
producers of these illegal goods out of business.

If that was possible there would not be any illegal drugs in the West.

~~~
djrogers
> You kill the Rhino, you are responsible for killing the Rhino. You buy Rhino
> horn, you are responsible for buying illegal goods and creating demand.
> (which is not equal to actually killing a Rhino or a human being!)

If you buy an illegaly obtained human heart, are you not culpable for the
death of the former owner?

If you hire a mercenary to obtaining a human heart, are you completely free
from all blame for the subsequent murder?

~~~
DominikR
> If you buy an illegaly obtained human heart, are you not culpable for the
> death of the former owner?

Not if you do not know that the person has been killed for you to receive the
heart or even worse, you ordered someone directly to kill someone. There are
plenty of people dying in accidents or of natural causes and some do buy
organs (usually bribing doctors) to get ahead in donor waiting lists.

You are culpable for bribing someone and risking that someone might have been
killed for the product (at least if you didn't make sure where it came from),
thus it is illegal. But you wont be charged with murder.

> If you hire a mercenary to obtaining a human heart, are you completely free
> from all blame for the subsequent murder?

Well of course you are directly to blame for any of these murders. You ordered
it so there's not much of a difference between killing the person yourself and
paying someone to do it for you.

~~~
jpttsn
So what about the mercenary? If you're directly to blame, is the mercenary
innocent? "Just doing his job"?

~~~
DominikR
For me both are to blame for the murder about equally. I believe that in most
Western countries the punishment for the mercenary (btw it's an assassin,
mercenaries can do legitimate work like providing security in war zones) would
be slightly worse.

But I'm not 100% sure about the last point, never had to deal with
assassinations so I never felt the need to research it.

------
okket
For every good news...

    
    
      Eastern gorilla now critically endangered while giant panda
      situation improves
    

[https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/04/eastern-...](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/04/eastern-
gorilla-critically-endangered-illegal-hunting-iucn-red-list)

~~~
dmix
China is capable of doing this now that they have wrenched themselves out of
poverty. Africa has hardly even begun to make significant progress and that is
largely a prerequisite for these conservation programs to be functional. They
need both capital and strong rule of law to enforce it.

Poaching and black markets are quite effective in dysfunctional states and/or
places with questionable ethical bases of cultures in regards to animal
exploitation (traditional justifications, deprioritization towards
longstanding human issues, rerouting of funding to corrupt officials, etc,
etc).

Hopefully Congo and other surrounding countries manages to deal with this
problem. Gorillas are some of the most interesting and intelligent animals on
the planet and heavily relevant to us understanding our own human history.

Maybe there aren't many people like Jane Goodall left with influence in the
local governments to protect them like in the old British colonial days. I
remember reading how she married a local politician who invested quite a bit
in creating large Gorilla habitats.

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kelukelugames
I love the first image. Panda wants high five! :D

[http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7E06/production...](http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/7E06/production/_91026223_gettyimages-594359398.jpg)

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whyenot
This is great news, but mountain gorillas were also moved from endangered to
critically endangered status by IUCN. ALL of humanity's closest relatives are
either critically endangered (the two species of orangutans and two species of
gorillas), or endangered (bonbos and chmipanzees).

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Fiahil
I'm not sure our settings for considering endangered species are quite right.
Someone told me a long time ago that "[...] _like any other wild animals_ ,
their biggest threat comes from mankind". With 2000 giant pandas alive and 7.5
billion bipeds, yeah, that's about right.

I think we've profoundly failed as a species. Apart from bringing almost all
living things on the brink of extinction, and nudge about every stable
ecosystem that was prospering before us, what have we done? What kind of
prowess have we achieved? Did we land on another planet yet? Did we built a
cohesive hive mind shared between every individuals alive?

Earth doesn't more humans, and if we could shave around 2 or 3 billion right
now, that would be alright. Problem is, humans tends to get nervous when you
apply natural selection to them. Eating cows? No problem. Getting chased by
something with large teeth? Nope nope nope nope.

~~~
djrogers
> Earth doesn't more humans, and if we could shave around 2 or 3 billion right
> now, that would be alright.

You gonna volunteer? Or just round up the others who you deem unworthy?

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asimjalis
Extinction happens not because people consume the animal but because they
don’t. For example, the cow and the chicken are at no risk of going extinct
because they are consumed.

~~~
richardw
Dodo?

Was primarily a source of food. Went extinct because preservation was not a
priority (or, I assume, farming them since chickens might have been easier).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Relationship_with_humans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#Relationship_with_humans)

~~~
bhandziuk
Same with bison in North America. It was quite close for many years.

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gcb0
great! can finally answer if they taste good now!

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andrewclunn
So how long until I can order them from Panda Express?

~~~
frozenport
Never, Panda Express isn't authentic Chinese food. They'd probably serve you a
Grizzly Bear with stripes.

