
Can Mark Zuckerberg Fix Facebook Before It Breaks Democracy? - NoB4Mouth
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/17/can-mark-zuckerberg-fix-facebook-before-it-breaks-democracy
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rossdavidh
So, I'm not a Republican, and I didn't vote for DT, but the left's response to
the 2016 election is really disappointing. It has been essentially a long list
of reasons why they lost other than, "we didn't appeal to quite enough of the
electorate". It was Russia, it was Facebook, it was everyone's a racist, it
was anything other than something the Democratic party did or didn't do.

Facebook has issues, but the idea that it will "break democracy" is absurd,
and kind of offensive.

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CptFribble
But they _did_ appeal to enough of the electorate. Clinton received ~3% more
votes, which was in line with the polling data.

Unfortunately, because we have a system that makes certain Midwest and rust
belt votes worth 3-10x more, Clinton lost anyway.

Most of what people have been complaining about actually happened. Russia
really did interfere. Facebook turned a blind eye to massive misinformation
campaigns on their platform. Facebook also knew about the Cambridge Analytica
breach for quite a while before making it public. A lot of the voting and ads
for Trump were driven by latent (or not so latent) racism.

It's not Facebook's "fault" that these things are happening any more than it's
paper's fault if someone makes a racist poster. However, we can't ask paper to
help us protect systems of election and governance that were invented before
instant global communication.

Facebook is "just a platform," but we have the unique ability to ask the
platform for help ensuring against abuse. I believe we must try to do that.

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rossdavidh
While there is a legitimate debate to be had about whether the electoral
college is good or not, it is not new, and the Democrats knew about it before
the 2016 election (we hope). They surely should have noticed it after the 2000
election. In 2009 they held all the levers of power, and could have chosen to
eliminate it via constitutional amendment, but did not. Regardless of your
opinion on whether they should have or not, they knew that the electoral
college existed, that the Rust Belt would be important, and they chose their
candidate and election strategy with full knowledge. It's also the same system
that elected Obama, twice, and also Bill Clinton.

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tscosj
Sick of it reading this kind of childish lines, nowadayds, even in New Yorker!

“For many years, it was, like, ‘Your LinkedIn thing is going to be crushed, so
even though we’re friendly, I don’t want to get too close to you personally,
because I’m going to crush you.’ Now, of course, that’s behind us and we’re
good friends.”

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qubax
A more important question is when will the new yorker and the rest of the
media fix itself before it breaks democracy.

Seems like the new yorker's ( and most of the media's ) definition of
"breaking democracy" is when people vote for candidates the new yorker doesn't
like. So petty and immature.

Where were these stories the last 8 years? When obama used social media to win
elections, social media was great. Now social media is the worst thing ever?

I pass by the New Yorker sign nearly everyday. I used to be impressed by it.
Now it seems like a blight on manhattan. Hopefully, the new yorker is doing a
better job of hiring their fact checker.

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doodpants
This isn't about Trump using social media to win elections. This is about
_Russia_ using social media to spread misinformation to influence U.S.
elections. No such thing happened 8 years ago.

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akfanta
How do you know it didn't happen before? And also, I found blaming everything
on Russia is really funny. I mean, yes, they leaked the info and probably
changed the course of the history, but it's not like they made up false
information. I don't claim I know everything about the leak, but it sounds
like it was mostly factual.

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josefresco
"it's not like they made up false information"

Uhhhhhh, you haven't been paying attention. The "DNC hack" was just one of
many intrusions perpetrated by the Russians with the assistance of GOP
leadership.

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konschubert
Facebook isn't breaking democracy.

It's the uneducated citizenship that is breaking it and this happens when the
rich don't want to pay for the education of the poor.

You know, like, good, free, tax-funded public schools.

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mkaziz
The rich also don't want to pay taxes. I think they're okay with that outcome.

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caymanjim
Does anyone outside media think Facebook matters when it comes to politics?
Has anyone ever changed their mind or their vote because of something on
Facebook? It's largely an echo chamber.

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mrj
Well, that's the problem, isn't it? People are increasingly retreating into
echo chambers that present no contradictory opinions. And now those echo
chambers are being used to slip in incorrect facts and twisted opinions.
People increasingly accept outlandish positions and the whole political
spectrum is getting more polarized.

CNN documented that the Russians pushed propaganda on both sides, once having
helped plan a protest and a counter protest at once. Their plan to disrupt
democracy is very much helped by echo chambers.

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13years
Aren't echo chambers mostly self organizing? I just see this as a general
problem and not something unique to Facebook.

Culturally we seem to be moving increasingly towards echo chambers as we are
losing the social skills to be capable of engaging in dialog without
immediately collapsing into emotional rants.

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caymanjim
Exactly. Facebook isn't dramatically different than your local pub, church,
Elks lodge, knitting club, or any other self-selected social group. Singling
them out and treating it like a new problem gives too much credence to the
notion that it's a new thing.

Think today's politics are divisive? Look back to the mass social unrest and
violence of the entire 20th century (or farther, at all of human history).
This is not a new phenomenon, and there's nothing unique about Facebook, the
Internet, social media, or technology.

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JoeAltmaier
Except its millions of times bigger in its scope and reach. That makes it
qualitatively a different thing entirely

