
Steve Wozniak announces tech education platform Woz U - _nh_
https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/13/steve-wozniak-announces-tech-education-platform-woz-u/
======
vikp
Although it would be unfortunate if this was the case, this paragraph from the
about page ([https://woz-u.com/about/](https://woz-u.com/about/)) leads me to
think that this is just using Steve Wozniak's name for branding:

 _Inspired by Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computer, we specialize in
technology and career-based programs designed to get people into the workforce
quickly and affordably...Led by higher education experts, Exeter Education,
students will learn the skills necessary to take flight within the technology
industry._

It looks like Woz U is affiliated with Exeter Education and Southern Careers
Institute. Exeter Education appears to be a new company in Arizona (more info
at
[http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/10/1...](http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/10/12/steve-
wozniak-wants-revolutionize-tech-education-starting-arizona-woz-u/759226001/)
and
[https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/04/14/former-g...](https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/04/14/former-
grand-canyon-university-exec-planning.html)).

Southern Careers Institute
([http://www.scitexas.edu/](http://www.scitexas.edu/)) seems to be a
vocational school of sorts. Neither of these are bad things, but they temper
the initial excitement I had around "Steve Wozniak is launching an online
education platform."

~~~
robotfactory
I can't imagine a guy like The Woz allowing his name to be associated with
something sub-par which he has no control over. He understands the importance
and weight of his personal brand.

~~~
kpwagner
He has a big heart. A few years ago Steve gave an interview with Patrick Bet-
David, which was simply a marketing piece for Patrick's company, PHP Agency.
PHP Agency is a financial firm founded on the power of "network marketing".
The idea behind network marketing is to turn your social network into pyramid,
positioning yourself at the top of the pyramid. I don't like network marketing
companies, and I believe they are all sub-par. In this interview, which you
can find on YouTube, Steve Wozniak described PHP Agency as a hit.

~~~
ShabbosGoy
> The idea behind network marketing is to turn your social network into
> pyramid, positioning yourself at the top of the pyramid.

Isn't this the idea behind Patreon?

~~~
mtrimpe
Patronage [1] is the idea behind Patreon.

Viewed as a pyramid it's one that goes only one level deep and markets only
yourself as a worthy cause to support ;-)

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage)

------
shawndrost
Woz U seems to be (at least in part) a rebranding of SCI/Coder Camps.

From the footer at [https://woz-u.com/](https://woz-u.com/): "Part of SCI"

From [http://www.scitexas.edu/programs/full-stack-
javascript/](http://www.scitexas.edu/programs/full-stack-javascript/): "SCI-
tech Academy’s 3-week Coding From Scratch course provides free prerequisite
training in coding basics, including HTML, CSS, and JavaScript basics for
those who have little to no coding experience."

From [https://www.codercamps.com/coding-from-
scratch/](https://www.codercamps.com/coding-from-scratch/): "New to software?
Start with Coding From Scratch Courses"

From [https://woz-u.com/curriculum-software-
development/](https://woz-u.com/curriculum-software-development/): "SWD100 |
Coding From Scratch"

(Full disclosure: my company is a competitor to Coder Camps.)

~~~
samstave
I just love how the HN community says "huh, yeah let me verify that" and
basically pulls the wool off the eyes...

So, fuck you, you beautiful tech community and I love you, you horrific tech
community..

This is literally what democratization of actual information looks like.

------
sjroot
Honestly this seems very "meh." Like others have said, I am getting the vibe
that Steve (or some other company) is using the name to attract attention to a
very unremarkable product.

> Woz U will offer an app to help people understand which field of tech
> they’re best suited for, so they can set up their curriculum accordingly.

If you follow that link, you can see a very (very) poorly-designed application
that is built by a company called Coder for Rent, LLC. This doesn't really
invoke a sense of confidence for me - sounds like someone with an idea just
reached out to the first app development team they could find. However,
looking into this company, they have a website:
[https://www.coderforrent.com](https://www.coderforrent.com).

Following that link will redirect you to the organization I am guessing is
teaming up with Woz for this: Coder Camps, with offices in Redmond and
Scottsdale. Steve Wozniak is not listed anywhere on the "Team" page on Coder
Camps' website, so this has to be some kind of business partnership. I believe
that even more after seeing the page for the Woz U application in the App
Store: the first 'screenshot' is his image covering the screen. Below his face
is one of his quotes: "Wherever smart people work, doors are unlocked."

I get the vibe that I am supposed to think all of the smart people will be
using Woz U because "Steve co-founded Apple!"

Anyway...back to work.

~~~
neurotech1
Fair criticism. It's quite possible that Woz considers this a MVP and not the
pinnacle of MOOC platforms.

Its also possible that Woz isn't going to be part of the regular faculty, as
great as that would be.

IMHO the course structure and content, is more important than the platform
code details.

~~~
sjroot
I agree with the last point 100%. It seems that this Coder Camps company has
experience running different programs in full stack development and data
science, so I imagine they know what they're doing.

------
peter303
Some people dont know Woz spent some years as an elementary school math
teacher after leaving his full time Apple job. So he as insight as a teacher.

~~~
sjroot
While I'm sure Woz would make a fantastic teacher, I don't think experience
teaching kids elementary math would really give anyone insight into teaching
CS/data science topics.

~~~
mosselman
Why not? How is teaching kids math different from teaching older kids CS and
data science? I am curious, not trolling.

~~~
jonsen
You can't teach children proper mathematics. That's what's different. Children
are not in general ready for math before 8'th or 9'th grade. That's why they
are just pestered with arithmetic until the majority becomes numberfobes. And
then have difficulties with real mathematics later.

~~~
taheca
I have not seen that data point before, children not being ready for math
until 8/9 grade. Where did you learn that/see that?

~~~
KGIII
I'm a mathematician. I have taught mathematics, albeit briefly, at the
university level.

I disagree with the person you responded to, but want to thread this here.

Mathematics can be taught at early ages. Unfortunately, we tend to teach
mathematics by rote. We teach arithmetic and not mathematics.

What we could be doing is teaching mathematics as a language. Mathematics is a
language, it's an expressive language that relies on logic. Like any language,
it is unconstained by reality and can be used to express concepts and ideals.
In conjunction with other languages, it can express complexities and
trivialities.

Unfortunately, we never seem to teach kids why, but simply teach them the
method. We teach them a process, by rote and enforcement. We don't encourage
discovery, nor do we try to explain the totality. In part, I believe, this is
due to many who give instruction not actually having the knowledge to do so.

Tempting as this is to turn this into a novella, I'll try for brevity. It is
true that mathematics isn't an easy subject, but a part of that difficulty
comes from the way in which we teach it.

~~~
DelightOne
Are Problems where you use the Theory enough? How many? All uses or just some?

If not Problems, maybe modify the Theory a little and show which Problems are
unsolvable now?

Are those two in the Why included? What else do you think should be included?

Regards.

~~~
KGIII
I am not sure I understand your questions. So, I will try to answer them. If
you feel my answers aren't adequate, feel free to ask more detailed questions.

No, problems where someone uses a theory isn't enough. They should understand
why they use it and know what alternatives exist. They should be able to
process this linguistically.

Basically, "The problem is this and I want to solve this problem this way,
because this way gives me the resulting information needed."

They should know as much as they can, it should be progressive and taught like
we teach languages. Mathematics isn't just a language for solving problems, it
can express problems just as easily.

Absolutely, people should be encouraged to try different things. Much like we
are encouraged to write an essay, we should encourage people to compose a
story with mathematics and it's very much okay to mix it with a second
language. Physics is such a thing. In physics, you use both mathematics and
your language to expresss and prove. Without both math and a traditional
language, some concepts aren't able to be expressed. This is why published
papers contain both text and math.

I am not sure about your 'why.' The why is to enable more people to understand
the language of mathematics and to enable them to use it to their advantage.

I think that it can be done by increasing exposure and teaching it with
greater complexity. It's fine to memorize addition and subtraction tables, but
understanding the concepts behind those things is more important.

To be fair, for a short while, we do sort of teach it as a language. This
fades out and becomes rote. In early education, we will teach with an abacus
and countable objects. We will teach the less than and greater than as a fish
that eats the bigger number. Eventually, that stops and concepts aren't
considered while memorizing rules is.

I will share a brief story...

I hated mathematics. I absolutely hated it. I didn't understand it. I just did
what I was told and gave the answers because I followed instructions.

When I was in sevent grade, I was working on problems which required me to
return the area of right triangles. My teacher had stood behind me for some
time, I'm not sure how long, before they spoke up.

I remember exactly what they said, to this very day. "You know, all you have
to do is square those triangles, find the area, and divide that number in
half."

That one instant, my life was permanently altered. At that moment in time, it
all clicked. It wasn't easy from there on out. It wasn't a magic moment where
I understood everything.

No, it was the moment that I understood that it was a language and that there
were many ways to say the same thing. It was that moment when I actually
understood that the symbols where actually telling a story. It was that moment
when I realized that it was expressing an idea, a concept, and that it was
descriptive.

I still stay in touch with that teacher, though they are old and frail. Had it
not been for them, my life would be very different. Had it not been for them,
for that moment in time, for that effort to make clear, I'd be a very
different person.

Most of us can probably have that moment, but little instruction is given that
allows for it. We aren't given the chance to see math as a language that is as
rich as it is. If we want people to excel at math, we need to find a way to
give them that moment.

------
IBM
Wozniak has been a rampant self-promoter for years so this isn't a surprise to
me at all. He'll put his name on anything.

[https://www.techinasia.com/talk/steve-wozniak-walking-
billbo...](https://www.techinasia.com/talk/steve-wozniak-walking-billboard-
hire)

~~~
mgiannopoulos
Given the nature of the Internet (mostly everything is public and you can
focus to whatever part of someone's online activity you want), everybody can
seem like a rampant self-promoter these days.

------
BlackEspresso
Finally it's true: [http://37prime.com/news/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/Futurama-...](http://37prime.com/news/wp-
content/uploads/2010/08/Futurama-s06e09-The-Clockwork-Origin-Wozniak-Nerd-
Academy.jpg)

------
mikerg87
Hard to see this without thinking about Steve Wozniak University.

[https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Steve_Wozniak_Un...](https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Steve_Wozniak_University.txt)

~~~
icebraining
Folklore.org is such a great site, almost every story is a gem. Just clicking
on the next left me with a smile on my face.

------
convexja
If getting "complete" software engineering training today amounts to learning
a popular JS framework, HTML, and CSS...we're in big trouble. Any company
exploiting this dogma and convincing folks who don't know any better to pay
tens of thousands of dollars and leave their job for 3-5 months should be
ashamed of themselves. I'm not, for the record, against people learning any of
these things. But for those who bought into the idea that it's enough to make
them competitive in the job market today will get a rude awakening in the next
couple years.

------
exogeny
It's a shame that his 1981 plane crash robbed both Steve and the world of the
full use of one of the greatest engineering minds that has ever lived.

A lot of people who know him personally - and I know of them personally, so
it's second-hand corroboration to be clear - say he was never anywhere close
to the same after the accident.

~~~
ZenoArrow
You shouldn't imply such things without being willing to share the source.

Also, changes in personality do not automatically mean changes in intellect.

~~~
exogeny
You're weirdly inferring two things that I didn't come close to saying.

Again, while I don't know him personally, I hold in great regard people that
do and am simply relaying what they've told me, which is that whatever the
nature of the change happened, be it personality or intellect or interests or
whatever, it set him on a different path and likely robbed all of us of
whatever the fruits of his previous path would have borne.

~~~
ionised
You feel robbed by that?

------
adam12
It seems out of character for Steve to use his name like this.

~~~
neurotech1
As mentioned by peter303 above, Steve Wozniak is an experienced elementary
school teacher.

~~~
duxup
I'm not sure that means he is or isn't selling his name.

------
jtokoph
I checked Woz's twitter feed to see if he mentioned this at all (which he
didn't) and noticed that he gives accurate location updates constantly. Even
which hotel room he's in.

[https://twitter.com/stevewoz](https://twitter.com/stevewoz)

~~~
adambyrtek
It's probably because he uses Swarm (which is basically rebranded Foursquare
checkins) connected to his Twitter account.

------
arsalanb
Okay, there are a lot of comments here about various things but what struck
out to me was that on the website it says Woz U will help students "get into
the workforce quicker" but their curriculum doesn't really cover any CS. It
covers things that help you build stuff using "hip" tools and languages, but
not things like algorithms, data structures, etc.

My question is, is this really all it takes to get a job in a startup/tech
company? Would YOU hire somebody who just knew these things?

~~~
toast0
Skipping theory (and liberal arts) is certainly going to get you prepared for
an entry level programming job. It's not going to get you prepared for most
interviews, though.

I like to think I'm a decent engineer; I have a BS in Computer Engineering,
but I use very little from most of the classes I took to get that. Actually,
my most in demand skills seem to be systems level debugging, which wasn't
discussed in any courses; it's something I've learned on the job, because it
was never in any of my courses. Some of the courses don't get used often, but
it is nice to have seen topics, so if they come up, I know it's something
that's been studied, and I just have to find it again. A straight-up
occupational training in programming is going to leave you without a lot of
that, unfortunately.

------
thoughtexprmnt
No real mention here of what will differentiate this from existing "tech
education platforms".

~~~
vthallam
I mean at this point, it's hard to differentiate when you are launching a
training school.

I think they are like completely banking up on the Woz name to get students
and companies use their services.

~~~
jonwachob91
We are only saying that b/c everyone is now doing the
codecadmy/treehouse/codeschool style of training, with a slight twist.

I'd expect if a guy like Woz is jumping behind it, it should be INNOVATIVE. A
new method of training that is better than what we have today. Similar to how
code school/treehouse/codecademy were innovative 5 years ago.

~~~
orb_yt
Any thoughts on what that would look like? I'm very much a fan of bite sized
lessons (think Duolingo style), but am curious to how well that would
translate to other subjects.

------
jdmoreira
I checked the curriculum and was so disappointed that it didn't start with
6502 assembly :/

------
ankyth27
Would be more appreciated if fortunate people like WOZ could do something good
for non-code fields as well. There are already a lot of platforms which teach
all of these. I respect WOZ for everything but I think there are more
opportunities/problems in other fields of education as well. Am I missing
something?

~~~
leggomylibro
Nah, MOOCs hold a lot of promise for other areas of study, but they definitely
are not totally there yet. They seem to be pretty good in 'soft' fields that
don't have much hands-on applications, but still pretty terrible for things
like electrical/mechanical engineering or embedded development.

Like, I'm interested in making things so that my code can interact with the
real world, so I tried Coursera's embedded development class.

Holy hell. It was awful. Way worse than a lot of free youtube tutorials I've
watched, and they were charging money. The course files flat-out did not work.
The course VM with the cross-compilation toolchain and everything was
incapable of booting; good thing those things are easy to install. The
assignments told you to do different things from the grading criteria; I wound
up erring on the super generous side with grading, especially since the
lectures were often largely unrelated to the tasks. And there was no embedded
platform involved at all, full stop. In a months-long course.

I learned much more in a week with Google and a $10 ST Nucleo board. _That 's_
where online education could still use a lot of work, IMO. The sort of thing
that requires lab segments.

And to be fair to Coursera, that's a tough thing to get right. It would be
nice if they actually verified that they were selling courses that functioned
at all, and that soured me personally to their platform, but at least you can
get a refund. They also have a power electronics class I was interested in,
but there's no chance in hell I'd risk it now. I don't mind throwing a few
hundred dollars and hours after education, but that stuff is potentially
really dangerous and I don't want to risk getting it wrong because a lecture
on transformer winding wasn't vetted...

~~~
GlennS
I did the MITx Circuits and Electronics unit online and it was pretty good.
The platform was a lot more advanced than Coursera's, including a little
circuit designer tool with various probes and things.

------
erikj
Sounds a lot like the name of the Nintendo's gaming console.

------
hourislate
Scott Galloway was saying Apple should take it's war chest and disrupt the
educational system. Start an Apple University where the skills required for
tomorrows jobs can be acquired.

Would be great if you could get Amazon, MS, Apple, facebook, etc on board to
start the revolution in education.

~~~
icebraining
You mean, like Facebook University?
[https://www.facebook.com/careers/university/fbu](https://www.facebook.com/careers/university/fbu)

Frankly, I have to say I'm skeptical. I don't see what makes them suitable or
incentivized to create a real school, rather than a pipeline into their
businesses.

~~~
orb_yt
That looks to be just an internship.

------
tonydiv
I'm really excited to see where this goes given I'm in the industry too! That
said, I am skeptical of the background of this company and the quality of
instruction/curriculum.

For anyone interested in K-12 coding education, I have been working on a
project called BlockSchool. We connect students ages 6-13 with teachers from
top colleges and companies via video chat. We have developed a fun 3D block-
based world where everything is programmable.

We already have students in 4 countries! If you're interested in a free trial,
email me at tony@block.school with Hacker News in the subject line :)

------
startupdiscuss
This is so much pressure on Woz to maintain his name that I am afraid he may
never do anything again (if he reads HN).

He is just a (from the looks of it -- I don't know him) nice, thoughtful,
successful person. But he is just a human being. He can't magically make an
educational system that makes you study front-end frameworks anymore than the
1000s of other nice, thoughtful people can do that.

The learner still has to sit down and apply themselves and there is no magic
around that.

~~~
leadingthenet
He's a sellout. Slapping his name on random things does not a good product
make.

------
tryingagainbro
Will My Trump University credits transfer to this one?

~~~
bitmapbrother
Most will. My credits on securing large credit reporting companies did not.

------
ShabbosGoy
I'd like to see something like this for Physics cirricula.

As a software engineer, I've always felt my physics background is lacking. Can
anyone recommend a decent physics learning platform that starts from QM first
principles and then goes to more complex topics?

~~~
JosephLark
It isn't exactly a platform, but it sounds like you would be well served by
The Theoretical Minimum [0]. The courses [1] start at classical mechanics, but
the second one is QM and builds from there. They are all taught by Leonard
Susskind, who is a fairly big name in the field.

There are two books available specifically tied to The Theoretical Minimum
[2], but I'm not sure how they related or tie into the video lectures as I
have not read them myself.

[0] [http://theoreticalminimum.com](http://theoreticalminimum.com)

[1]
[http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses](http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses)

[2]
[http://theoreticalminimum.com/references](http://theoreticalminimum.com/references)

------
godzillabrennus
Glad to see Woz working on this problem. He has such a legendary reputation in
the tech world for his engineering skills but few know of his passion for
education. I hope this ends up being a large part of his legacy.

------
Rotdhizon
Unfortunately, this education is no different(or better) than the education
you can receive at any of dozens of colleges around the country that teach the
exact same thing without the branding hype. Looking through the computer
support curriculum, nothing is original or new. It's just the same old thing
every other college teaches for the same course. No new spin or intuitive way
to teach it.

------
throwaway7645
If I didn't trust Woz, I'd say it reminds me too much of when Trump U
happened.

------
vyrotek
I was surprised to read that Woz U will be based out of Arizona. That's pretty
cool.

~~~
rconti
How so?

------
godelski
The real question is, do we call it "Wazoo" or "Waz you"?

~~~
hbosch
Not to be confused with "Wazzu", or, Washington State University.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=wazzu](https://www.google.com/search?q=wazzu)

------
ireallydonot
Is he very selfish person or just a hero ?

------
salqadri
I thought this was a great initiative by Woz, until I read the tech
accelerator part; I'm worried about the focus on making money off of this.

------
muthdra
It should be called "Woz up?"

~~~
cgijoe
U WOZ M8?

------
kbutler
How will this not get pronounced "Wazoo"?

Though initial criticism of the name "iPad" died pretty quickly.

------
yvsong
Should be named WoZu.

