
Pebble's next step - david-given
https://blog.getpebble.com/2016/12/07/fitbit/
======
captainmuon
I'm quite angry. This sucks so bad. I "ordered" a Time 2 via Kickstarter.

I'm glad they are refunding me, but that makes me think... WTF, did they not
produce any Time 2's? Or are they all going to the landfill? How long have
they been knowing that they are going to be insolvent? This doesn't happen
overnight! Was the last Kickstarter a gamble?

Why does everybody have to aim for total market dominance to be successful?
They overreached and now the customers suffer. There should be a place for
"small" manufacturer selling a niche product ("small" with a certain
understatement like German "Mittelstand" enterprizes - I mean Pebble sold
millions of units). If they had to increase the price by 10% to be
sustainable, they still would have smashed the Kickstarter.

Sometimes I think there is a secret cabal conspiring so we can't have nice
things ;-). The same one that decided that cell phone batteries have to be
non-removable, touchscreens glossy, and wearables either mini-smartphones or
bluetooth-step-counters.

~~~
victorvation
> Was the last Kickstarter a gamble?

_All_ Kickstarters are gambles. Their messaging[1] is pretty clear in the fact
that you aren't buying a product, you're contributing money with the hope that
the maker will deliver on their promises.

[1] [https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-
store](https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store)

~~~
captainmuon
Right, but I meant a gamble on their side, not the buyers'. Like when MtGox
lost their bitcoins and ran as a fractional reserve trying to cover what
happened. Or an actual addicted gambler trying to cut their losses by playing
more. I wonder when they learned they were going out of business, and if the
last Kickstarter was just a Hail Mary...

~~~
paulftw
They probably thought a big KS would convince investors to give them couple
hundred million.

What they should have done is cut costs and develop 10x fewer features, let
the community grow slowly but organically and wait out the bad times.

~~~
JonFish85
"What they should have done is cut costs and develop 10x fewer features, let
the community grow slowly but organically and wait out the bad times."

It's easy to say that, but when you are up against the Apple/Samsung type
companies who have _much_ deeper pockets, don't have to wait out bad times,
have the ability to lean on vendors, have contracts in place with
manufacturing and the supply chain to efficiently deliver the product, it
might not be realistic to do that. On top that, as others here have said, once
you take VC money, there isn't really an option to go slowly and let the
community grow.

~~~
kbenson
> there isn't really an option to go slowly and let the community grow.

Sure there is. Just not while also being the dominant, or one of the dominant
players in the industry when there is competition form a bit name. Pebble
didn't _have_ to be a dominant player, they could have positioned themselves
differently if they wanted. Both paths are a gamble, but if it comes to a
small company I own trying to compete with Apple/Samsung/Google and it's
obvious their resources give them an edge (which they almost always do), then
I think I would try to position myself to net necessarily compete with them
directly (e.g. be the more hacker friendly device, don't shoot for the luxury
market, find some cool thing they aren't offering, etc).

------
TeMPOraL
I'm sad/angry/depressed as any Pebbler right now, so I won't repeat those
comments. Instead, since this is HN after all, let me ask - what shall we do?

In a year or two, when my current Pebble Time fails, I'd love an equivalent
smartwatch to be available. Since the market doesn't seem to want it, how can
we make it happen anyway?

Features I'm looking for are, in order of priority:

    
    
      - always-on screen, preferably color (like Pebble Time), but monochromatic will do
      - open SDK for writing software for the watch
      - battery life at least the one like Pebble's - 5-7 days
      - *zero* dependency on cloud for it to work
      - basic, standard suite of sensors onboard - compass/magnetometer/accelerometer, maybe a mike
      - elegant form factor
    

Now I can go the DIY route (I have a friend with experience in making
smartwatches from ground-up, though I'd look at some SOCs instead of going the
uC + separate sensors route - to save on watch size). Many of us here could do
it. But honestly, I have shit ton of other stuff to do, and I'd rather _pay_
for such a watch and enjoy the ecosystem, just like I did with Pebbles. And if
everyone goes the DIY route, and there won't be some standardization along the
way, there will be no community. Any idea how to coordinate and make this
happen? Maybe a community, open-hardware design + crowdfunding for production?

~~~
tw04
I feel like I'm starting to sound like a fanboy - but it's because I've had
other smart watches and it's just _so much better_. Why not consider garmin?
Not sure if their SDK is going to hit the mark as I'm guessing you want
complete control and it's definitely not that, but they have everything else
you've asked for.

[https://developer.garmin.com/connect-
iq/sdk/](https://developer.garmin.com/connect-iq/sdk/)

~~~
darklajid
Well, they're three times the price. That's a bit hard to swallow, honestly.

A Pebble is a nice gadget. The Garmin (looking at garmin.com, clicking the
first thing that looks like a watch) is close to a month of rent.

I believe you when you state that you're satisfied. On the other hand, I
really don't feel that this is in the Pebble replacement league.

~~~
dlevine
The Garmin Vivoactive HR (which supports their app platform, has GPS and
optical HR) was on sale for $170 on Black Friday. It periodically will go on
sale for this price.

~~~
darklajid
Thanks for that. Looking at the specs it seems to have equivalent battery life
(ignoring GPS, which is fair), is just as water proof and generally looks like
an alternative.

I'm not sure I like the looks of the thing (but then again, pictures are bad
and I should get my hands on one first) and I've no idea about their app
platform yet.

Do you happen to know if this works completely offline, ignoring cloud
offerings? Can I track whatever I want to track and keep it on the device
and/or my phone only?

------
rtpg
I am so sad about this. I had told myself that at least I'd get a Time 2 and a
Core, and stave myself off before the sadness hits again that Pebble is gone.

Pebble's products were an excellent example of lateral technology. No need for
high DPI on your watch, because they made something that looks good with few
pixels. Making battery life a priority in a world of WiFi-enabled pressure
cookers.

Even when the battery ran out you still got 24 hours of a watch that would at
least tell the time!

I have no idea if it is possible to produce something like Pebbles at low
quantities, but I would love to see an open design with similar specs. I think
these watches are better than anything else out there, and it's sad the design
is going to disappear.

~~~
iamatworknow
>Making battery life a priority in a world of WiFi-enabled pressure cookers.

I literally wear my Time Steel for 23 hours and 45 minutes per day. The only
time it's charging and not on my wrist is when I'm in the shower, and over the
course of a regular day it never drops below 80%. If I'm going away for a
weekend I don't even have to bother with the charger.

~~~
Twirrim
I charge my first gen Pebble literally once a week. Monday morning, I get to
work, and put my pebble on charge. By the time stand-up happens a couple of
hours later (my first meeting of the day) it's back on my wrist and good to go
for the next week.

I was aiming to get a new Pebble after Christmas, as mine suffers from that
screen corruption glitch that plagued the first gens.

I expect this is actually part of the problem, and likely affects many
smartwatch producing companies: If it wasn't for the screen glitch, I wouldn't
be replacing my watch. It works, does everything I need, and speed isn't an
issue. A colour display would be nice, but it's far from important to me. I'm
sure the same is true for many Joe Average consumers. There isn't the same
impetus to frequently upgrade a watch.

~~~
iamatworknow
I had the same screen glitch with my Kickstarter edition OG Pebble, then
bounced around to other smart watches until I landed again on the Time Steel
which has been nothing but perfect.

But you're right. Much like the cell phone market which appears to be slowing
down, the minor improvements made in the tech for smart watches don't appear
to actually be worth buying if you already have the current version that isn't
broken. Unfortunately, the software Pebbles run is so straightforward that
even planned obsolescence through required updates wouldn't have been a viable
option like it is for cell phones. Y'know, the updates that correct dangerous
security vulnerabilities while at the same time crippling old hardware by
introducing new, unnecessary features in the software? No Pebble owner
would've bought (for lack of a better word) that justification and upgraded.

------
scblock
Considering that Pebble is stopping product development, cancelling orders,
ending warranties, ending support, and essentially completely shutting down I
find the positive tone of this post and the Kickstarter update post to be
nearly unbelievable.

I know we see plenty of "our incredible journey" posts filled with optimism,
but euphemistic language and dozens of photos of watches and happy people and
more watches is jarring.

It's not a shame to try hard at something and fail. But it is a shame to fail
and pretend you succeeded. We can see through you.

~~~
reneherse
Indeed, the tone, headline, and imagery are bizarrely incongruous to the
gravity of the message. I have to assume that internally they're just trying
to make sense of a difficult situation and PR is not one of their strengths.
One recalls that the first stage of grief is denial...

------
lettergram
You know, Pebble has garnered one of the best group of loyal customers I know
of: well-off techies.

Had they came to the community and said, "hey we are losing sales and we need
everyone to pitch in $10 / year for software support (maybe a web interface
for fitness or something) I guarantee a few hundred thousand people would have
done it.

Had they shared a coupon with the community (i.e. email add campaign, or add
on watch - "buy one, get one half off" for christmas they would have probably
had a large bump in orders. Although I recognize this would be a mild
annoyance, I can also guarantee they would have sold plenty of units.

This simply seems like poor management and it's frustrating because it's the
best smart watch I can find at the moment. It does exactly what I want, is
cheaper than the competition, and is dead simple to use.

WTF pebble, you had the product people loved - you just didn't market it well.

~~~
asmithmd1
This is exactly right. 100s of thousands of well off techies strap your
product to our body and the best deal you could arrange is to put a bullet in
the companies head?

It seems very strange they are basically just shutting down. That has to be an
ego driven decision on the FitBit side - they wanted to kill Pebble. Are they
even going to use the brand name? The combination of: working production
facility, users in the wild, and (the biggest asset) a developer community had
to have some value. Now that the deal is done there is no chance to pry that
out of publicly traded FitBit, but it seems like this could have had a better
outcome.

~~~
fit2rule
>This is exactly right. 100s of thousands of well off techies strap your
product to our body and the best deal you could arrange is to put a bullet in
the companies head?

Actually, I think what happened is that Eric, the CEO, is now a multi-
millionaire.

So, this is more of a success story than most of us might consider savory to
think about.

~~~
kobeya
? As founder he held common stock, which would be worthless now.

~~~
JonFish85
There are lots of ways around that. His stock is worthless, sure, but he
probably has something else, whether it's a huge retention bonus (cash or
Fitbit stock, which is public and can be sold), an executive-level salary at
Fitbit, or some combination of the two. There's also the possibility that he
sold some of his equity to investors for cash earlier on.

EDIT: I was wrong, he is joining YC. Thank you for pointing that out kobeya.

~~~
kobeya
He's not at Fitbit. He's joining YC.

------
mike-cardwell
Somebody pointed this out to me the other day:

[https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge](https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge)

I've not looked into it yet, but it is described as:

"A free and cloudless replacement for your gadget vendors' closed source
Android applications. Pebble and Mi Band supported."

The feature list seems substantial. So hopefully we'll be able to continue to
use our pebbles for some time.

~~~
nepfvkej
I don't know whether to applaud or criticize those who create open source
software on unstable proprietary platforms, but if nothing else it shows what
potential good greater openness would serve users.

~~~
djsumdog
Um...have you paid attention to the open source space for the past decade?

Audium/Pidgin/libpurple all were originally created to have open source
interfaces to close systems (MSN, AIM, Yahoo Messenger, etc). Most of the OSS
work is about reverse engineering and creating open yet compatible tools to
use with or in place of closed systems.

If anything, projects like this can help keep Pebble watches alive after the
demise of the company.

~~~
nepfvkej
I don't think we're in disagreement. There is end-user value at least in short
term. But when efforts are expended to keep users engaged with and thus
financially supportive of closed systems instead of building alternatives
isn't that folly?

None of the closed systems you mentioned exist in any meaningful form today
and it's hard to imagine that a substantial number of Pidgin/Adium users began
to sing the praises of XMPP rather than adopt another closed messaging system.

------
alonsonic
I can't believe this, just got a Pebble 2 a week ago and now they are
literally saying it may not work in the future.

If we rely on their cloud services for activity tracking and app downloads
then it will be useless if FitBit doesn't maintain the platform.

I have to say I'm really disappointed and this is a huge blow to people that
invest in startups offering hardware. If the company fails forget about the
smart stuff you bought, it just won't work anymore.

We should look for ways to minimize the impact on backers. Sadly we'll see
more of this in a future in which the products depend a lot on the company
cloud services to operate.

~~~
syshum
>>I have to say I'm really disappointed and this is a huge blow to people that
invest in startups offering hardware.

Buyers need to start demanding Open Source Software and Open Hardware...

With out that, you will always be screwed

~~~
TeMPOraL
Or at least treat any kind of cloud integration as a big negative. Without
cloud dependence, the devices can always be hacked and made to work again
until hardware dies.

~~~
problems
One of the main reasons I went with the Pebble over other options was that I
could use sleep tracking with it via a 3rd party app, without any need for
their cloud. Sleep as Android has your back there. It's the only sleep
tracking tool I like because it's able to keep your data locally on your phone
or sync'd via a few mechanisms.

As for the step tracking... yeah, not sure.

~~~
djsumdog
Your device will keep working yet, but what if you switch phones/tablets? Now
you need to setup a new device with the watch and...oh wait... Pebble re-
downloads and re-installs all the apps. If their app/servers go away, now
we'll be looking up hack people wrote on github to get our devices working
again.

~~~
problems
Yeah, fortunately TiBu can backup both the Pebble app and the Bluetooth
pairing. But that's basically next, modified firmwares already exist I
believe, so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that if we need to use
those and sideload apps we'll be able to.

I'm fairly sure that I could crack the pebble apk myself to remove the
authentication stuff at the beginning if it's needed. Backing up all the apps
and stuff before it's gone might be the bigger worry here.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Backup is already underway, Reddit folks stepped up to the challenge.

I don't think PBW format has any magic in it that could enforce cloud
dependency.

~~~
problems
Yeah, from what I saw with the customized firmwares it looked fairly open to
tinkering.

I'll have to check out what's going on with the pebble community over there.
Might be interesting to get as much reverse engineered as possible before
everything goes belly up.

------
tedajax
As someone who quite likes their time steel and who was patiently waiting for
their time 2 this is incredibly frustrating. No other watches do what I want
so I guess my foray into smart watches is over. It's a shame too because I
appreciate the convenience it offers but I probably won't miss it much after a
couple of weeks

~~~
olemartinorg
I agree with this being frustrating. I had to explain to so many people that
even though my watch doesn't have a SIM card, integrated 4G, GPS or a memory
card slot for music it is still exactly what I wanted. Pebble watches do what
smart watches should do, without trying to be a tiny phone on your wrist.

I guess I can only dream, but I hope they some day open up parts of it so that
the phone app can continue working even with changes to Android/IOS down the
line (if Fitbit doesn't want to keep the old Pebbles alive).

But with that said, a smart watch makes me feel hyper-connected. Putting it in
quiet mode (and/or taking it off my wrist) every now and then is liberating
and definitely makes me more productive.

~~~
mr337
Wow this is so true with me, I just want a watch that is a small extension of
my phone. Not a watch trying to be a phone. Now I got to figure out wtf to get
next if anything. A watch I have to charge every night isn't going to happen.

------
hedora
Tldr: FitBit acquires( _) bankrupt pebble, lays of 60% of staff, cancels all
pebble product lines. FitBit also cancels the warranties on already sold
pebbles. FitBit may also have stiffed some holders of $27m of pebble 's debt.

(_) due to legal shenanigans we must not call this an acquisition or an acqui-
hire. Also, FitBit didn't do those things, a shell company created by this
deal did, which is totally different somehow.

When things like this happen, I always hope that consumers that got screwed
over by the deal (and people that hear about it) avoid the acquiring company
after the fact. If they treat pebble customers like this, how will they treat
their own customers later?

~~~
Tinyyy
Why does FitBit have the responsibility of providing support for another
company’s products? If they didn’t buy Pebble, it would’ve shuttered anyways
and they might not even refund the preorders.

~~~
enraged_camel
When you buy a company, you don't buy just the assets. You also acquire the
liabilities, which include debt, warranties and support contracts.

~~~
detaro
Which is why they did not buy the company. The company is going bankrupt and
sold IP to recover money to pay some of the debts with. If you did that to a
healthy company that might be fraudulent, but when the company is going under
either way it is probably not.

~~~
hedora
Agreed, but I didn't see anything about court approval for this deal. If a
neutral third party signed off on it being the best deal (for the creditors
and customers) possible, then fine.

------
gregmac
> Pebble devices will continue to work as normal. No immediate changes to the
> Pebble user experience will happen at this time. > Pebble functionality or
> service quality may be reduced in the future.

That's very unfortunate. How much of Pebble relies on some online service? Is
it still possible to install apps/updates without their infrastructure?

For companies that don't open source their stuff by default, it would be so
nice if there was some kind of escrow service where upon dissolution of the
company (sale, bankruptcy, etc) the required software to keep their hardware
going would be released. I suspect the problem is while it's a win for
consumers, not enough would care: the mass market is not going to only buy
products that have this escrow service, and at the same time, it's handcuffs
for the business, likely complicating a sale or liquidation of the company,
and possibly turning investors off.

I hope the Pebble doesn't become a complete wristbrick, but it's always a
shame to see perfectly good hardware crippled because there's no longer a
piece of software running entirely outside the consumer's control.

~~~
andrewblossom
It sounds like the developers at Pebble are hopeful that Fitbit will allow the
community to step in where Fitbit can't (or won't):
[https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-
commu...](https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community-
update/)

"Further down the road, we’ll be working to phase out cloud services,
providing the ability for the community to take over, where possible."

~~~
djsumdog
I understanding them selling a lot of IP to Fitbit to pay back their debts and
settle bankruptcy, but I really feel all the source for their app/store-
services should have been made open source instead, prior to this
announcement.

That way at least their customers could try to hack together stuff or make
mirrors of their app repos to keep their devices functional.

~~~
nepfvkej
I think you're overestimating how much they value their former customers.

~~~
rtpg
This could also be an issue on Fitbit's side. Open Sourcing all the IP makes
the deal less enticing to them (that's the first order analysis, but there's
arguments in the other direction too)

------
LeanderK
this blog post is absurd. They are shutting down, not manufacturing/selling
stuffy anymore. It's over, the bubble popped, icarus flew too high and
crashed.

And yet everybody having fun with their pebbles on the pictures. Also
featured: the energetic team, the diverse ecosystem with lots of developers.
This is absurd. The only thing missing is the "our incredible journey"-phrase.

The whole blog-post if marketing BS, even the headline is a lie. "Pebble's
next step", there is no next step, it's over for pebble! Some might work for
fitbit in the future, but pebble is dead. They don't explain why and how, they
are just glorifying their past and don't admit any mistakes.

------
pbnjay
Wow this is even worse than expected from the previous news articles... If
they're winding down all support and warranties, PLEASE release as much of the
watch operating system code as possible! I know some of the IP was sold, but
if Fitbit won't be continuing support please help those of us who love our
current watches keep them going!

~~~
dag11
That's Fitbit's call. Would be a great way to retain some product/brand
loyalty among its supporters though!

~~~
soneil
The name would be something of a poisoned chalice if they can't fulfil
existing orders.

They've bought the parts that are worth something. They haven't bought the
liabilities. It seems like a pretty obvious move, in that cold light.

------
fudgy73
I don't usually get upset about this stuff, business is business, but with my
outstanding time 2 and core orders, I am definitely feeling bamboozled.

I always thought of pebbles fighting fitbits, the watch for 'us' vs the
trackers for everyone. The open platform vs the locked in, the device that got
just what you wanted done vs the not-really-a-watch.

It seemed like with pebble health and their relationship with Stanford things
were on the up and up. Now ending warranties and such a trying to be nice but
not really announcement. I expect nothing from fitbit. This sucks.

~~~
tokenizerrr
I'm not a lawperson, but can companies really just terminate a warranty like
that?

~~~
maaaats
When being bought, one would think the new company would take over the
responsibilities.

But I also read that the employee-shares would be worthless, so it looks like
FitBit bought Pebble in a weird sense.

~~~
sethd
They didn't buy the company, they bought some of the assets. In an asset
purchase you don't take on the liability of the company your purchasing the
assets from. Pebble as a company will go into bankruptcy and cease to exist.

------
dijit
I'd like to know how this happened really. Pebbles were pretty decent and
their successful campaigns definitely contributed to the rise of smart
watches. But after having two hugely successful crowdfunding campaigns, how
did they fail?

~~~
imaginenore
Why do you think they failed? Didn't FitBit just buy them?

~~~
cptskippy
FitBit bought just their software assets for under $40 million. In 2015,
Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million.

FitBit did not acquire their $24 million in debt or any physical asserts. They
offered jobs to 40% of the staff.

~~~
FT_intern
> In 2015, Citizen offered to buy the whole company for $740 million

ouch, i can only imagine how the founders feel

~~~
cptskippy
It depends on the terms of the offer. He might have thought he was working in
his employee's best interests by not taking the offer. Alternatively he could
have negotiated support contracts for existing customers and provided stock
options to employees then cashed out.

But in hindsight he's probably kicking himself.

------
maxerickson
Ducks not quite in a straight line yet.

From text of announcement:

 _Pebble is no longer promoting, manufacturing, or selling any devices._

From header of getpebble.com:

 _Buy Now $99_

Also, the store promoting Pebble has no prominent announcement that they
aren't promoting Pebble anymore (the one watch I checked did say out of stock,
so they aren't selling it at the moment).

~~~
maxerickson
(So the 2 hour edit window has only just closed and they have fixed both
things)

------
denzil_correa
> Pebble’s Migicovsky is planning to rejoin startup incubator Y Combinator as
> a partner advising early-stage companies on hardware development, people
> with knowledge of the matter said. Y Combinator’s hardware head recently
> left, Bloomberg News reported last month.

Pebble CEO seems to be joining YC.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-
sa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-said-to-
discuss-selling-software-assets-to-fitbit)

------
sandis
> Warranty support is no longer available for Pebble watches.

That's not very nice.

~~~
rtpg
Also not super legal, probably. I'm sure if you have a problem, you could
argue that Fitbit needs to handle it.

~~~
lucaspiller
This is exactly why FitBit only bought the IP - it means they don't have any
legal responsibilities the other company has, such as warranties.

~~~
syshum
They may not have any Legal Liablity, but it going to be a PR problem for them

I know I will not buy any FitBit products either, if this acceptable to
FitBit, to do nothing for these customers knowing this was going to happen
then FiTBit does not deserve anyone's money either.

It would have been better for the company to just Die if they were that bad
off (which I have my doubts unless they were Seriously mismanaged)

These Acquihires where a large company partially buys out another company for
there personnel and/or IP shuttering the original product and fucking over
customers need to come with at minimum a HUGE PR back lash for the company
buying the assets to make them at least do right by the original customers
offering things like Reasonable levels of support, Transition planning, etc

------
wenbin
Just read previous posts on
[https://blog.getpebble.com/](https://blog.getpebble.com/) .

Man, you really can't tell whether a startup is doing well or not from
outside. Everything's AWESOME all the time:

* Oct 31, 2016: Get Spooky with Halloween Pebble Faces!

* Oct 18, 2016: What’s New in Pebble’s 4.2 Firmware and Apps

* Oct 05, 2016: Pebble 2: Fit & Smart

* Sep 30, 2016: Pebble 2 Kickstarter Rewards Start Shipping

* Sep 14, 2016: Pebble Core = More Awesome with Amazon Alexa Expansion in the UK and Germany

... and then suddenly making big headline: "Dec 7, 2016: Pebble's next step".

~~~
Ezhik
Apparently if they don't blog for a while, things are bad.

~~~
jtmarmon
"Going bankrupt" canary

------
IgorPartola
Would have been better if they had open sourced the OS and the server code.
And the designs for that matter. Obviously the IP is worth quite a bit, but
since it doesn't look like FitBit will be producing similar hardware, it sucks
to essentially lose these designs and it sucks that at any point FitBit can
just shutter the services that make the current watches work.

Also, the Core was going to be awesome. Too bad it didn't happen.

~~~
intopieces
>Also, the Core was going to be awesome. Too bad it didn't happen.

Yes, it was, and they even had Alexa integration planned. It made it a really
interesting product, something that not even Apple or Google had. A little
hackable 3G box with voice assistant. Really bummed.

------
diego_moita
Pebbler here.

There is an old Italian anarchist poem[0] that sings: "date fiori ai ribelli
caduti", "give flowers to the fallen rebels".

Flowers for you, rebels.

[0]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0Rsf_7f0U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X0Rsf_7f0U)

~~~
TeMPOraL
So say we all.

~~~
djsumdog
So say we all.

------
xs
I don't consider Pebble to be a startup anymore. I'm not sure why so many
comments here use that term. They have found a repeatable, stable, and
scalable business model that works and have been successful with it for years.
Their watches are sold in Best Buy, Target, Walmart and other retail stores.
Once you hit that level of main stream popularity I would say you're no longer
a startup.

It was shocking to me to see Kickstarters for Pebble after their initial watch
came out. After they had already been for sales in major retail stores. They
should have solidified their business model by then and been profitable
already. I feel like Kickstarter should be there to get your initial idea
launched and if you can't take flight from there, don't do another.

Anyway, huge Pebble fan here, super sad to see them mismanage their assets
that resulted in this.

------
engi_nerd
Why do these companies always phrase it as "our next step" or "what we're
doing next"? As far as the outside world is concerned, Pebble is dead. There
is no "next step". Maybe those same people will go on to work with Fitbit to
make similar products, but they are abandoning their existing product.

I hate spin for the sake of public relations.

------
51Cards
My Pebble Time is brilliant... after an LG G, Moto 360, I settled on my Time
being a perfect balance if functionality and usability. I was one of the first
Time 2 backers and this really sucks to put it mildly. The Time 2 was going to
fix my VERY few issues with the Time. In general they struck the perfect
balance in a wearable for me and I was really excited about the future (Time
2, Google Assistant integration, etc). I rarely get truly sad about hardware
announcements but this one is really disappointing.

------
europa
Whenever this kind of things happens. It will make all the more difficult for
startups to acquire users because this reiterates "Startups are either going
to be acquired and killed or die prematurely".

~~~
TeMPOraL
This hurts, because Pebble always seemed to me like the "good" kind of startup
that will live long.

~~~
kbd
Unfortunately they didn't grow responsibly.

I worked for a start-up that did a similar thing. We hired tons of people and
the business was unsustainable. It was a push to get bought or go out of
business. Lucky for us we got bought.

------
experimentsin
I note this from Pebble's developer blog, suggesting that a Fitbit-targeting
successor to Pebble's app SDK may be a big part of the plan:

"Although this chapter in Pebble’s developer story is closing, our team and
ethos have found a new, welcoming home at Fitbit. We can’t wait to have you
alongside us for this next adventure. Third-party Pebble developers have a
massive opportunity to drive how a Fitbit developer ecosystem will take shape.
We hope you’re as excited about seizing this opportunity as we are.

Over the coming months we will be working closely with our new friends at
Fitbit, building the foundation for the next great wearable experiences. We
want you—our fantastic developer community—to keep playing a crucial role in
our success. More information will follow soon, so stay tuned!"

[https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-
commu...](https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community-
update/)

~~~
TeMPOraL
This sound like typical post-acquihire PR bullshit. New 'exciting
opportunities' and 'building the foundation for the next great wearable
experience' does not in any way imply that any useful thing resembling a
smartwatch will be created. It doesn't imply there will be a developer-
friendly platform.

Nor does this message actually make sense. "We want you—our fantastic
developer community—to keep playing a crucial role in our success." There is
no "us" and "our success" \- they just got bought by another company and are
shutting down the whole product line. They are literally a different entity
now.

~~~
experimentsin
No argument over the phrasing. However, an evolution of the Fitbit Blaze
device platform hooked up to something inspired by the CloudPebble online SDK
doesn't seem implausible.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Given my experience with technology companies (especially startups) so far, I
don't really expect that to happen. Though it would be very nice.

------
ynniv
I'll trade my refund for a postmortem.

~~~
captainmuon
I'd love to know what the ratio of incompetence to malice was.

~~~
wvenable
The smartwatch market pretty much tanked in 2016. Apple just sold a record
number of Apple watches but even they were down for the most of year. There
just wasn't enough runway for Pebble to keep running; they even laid off 25%
of their staff earlier in the year.

------
dom96
Many people seem to be calling for the release of Pebble OS source code. Of
course that is unlikely to happen. So how about instead we reimplement it
under a FOSS license?

Ever since I heard the rumours about this acquisition, I started wondering
just how difficult that would be to do. I'm sure there are plenty of you here
with experience in these types of things, is this a good idea or a waste of
time?

~~~
kobeya
Good idea. Get on it.

------
twoquestions
So it looks like Fitbit acquihired the team from Pebble. Here's hoping Fitbit
releases a product like the Pebbles, as it was much more safe and less
attention-consuming to check a text message on my watch while driving than
bringing out my phone, or asking a passenger to do this.

Are there any other things like it that we can migrate to, or will the world
never see their like again?

~~~
peatmoss
> check a text message on my watch while drivin

Please don't do this. Traffic fatalities--particularly those involving
vulnerable road users have spiked in the last couple years. There is nothing
you can communicate that is worth the grave risk to others that you pose.

~~~
hjmcnew
To be 100% clear, I totally agree with you that one shouldn't check their text
messages while driving.

That being said, the statistics don't support your claim that traffic
fatalities have spiked. Through 2014 (the last year the IIHS published
statistics) fatalities had either leveled off or continued their historical
decline.

[http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-
statistics/fatalit...](http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-
statistics/fatalityfacts/overview-of-fatality-facts)

~~~
dspillett
Statistics are like bikinis: they show a lot but what they can hide is
significant too.

Fatalities overall have fallen and continue to fall, largely due to increased
use of seatbelts, other safety features in cars improving and being more
commonly available. Also in many areas the overcrowding of roads is making
fatalities drop: if you can't get up to any sort of speed then and collisions
you experience will be less likely to be fatal!

But accidents due to being distracted by technology (and therefor the number
of fatalities as a proportion of that) are, according to a number of studies,
on the increase.

~~~
hjmcnew
Perhaps it is the pedant in me, but the parent didn't qualify by saying the
number of fatalities due to distracted driving. There was only the blanket
statement of an increase in the number of fatalities.

While I don't doubt you are correct that the proportion of fatalities due to
distracted driving is increasing, I'd still like to see a link or two to the
studies you cited.

~~~
dspillett
_> I'd still like to see a link or two to the studies you cited._

Unfortunately I don't have such handy, though if I remember when I next have
time I'll try hunt out a reference.

If you want clues to try hunt them down yourself: they will be things I've
read about in New Scientist (dead tree publication), probably in sidebars to
recent articles on advances in automated vehicles.

------
pimterry
This is tragic; I was waiting on a Time 2, but looks like no longer.

What else is around in this niche now? Are there other relatively cheap,
simple smart watches with good battery life that I should be looking at
instead?

~~~
s_kilk
Yeah, I've been waiting on my pre-order Pebble 2 HR to arrive, but will
certainly be cancelling, presuming there's anyone left in the building to
accept the cancellation.

Would love to know what the alternatives are, as I've been tired of the low
build-quality of my Fitbit and really want something much nicer and closer to
a smart-watch.

------
cableshaft
I'd love to see a P2P style open cloud service created, where companies that
use cloud services can use that instead, and then even if their company fails
or has to shut down their own support of their services, their products can
live on with the P2P cloud.

(Or, even if it's just an auto-graceful downgrade solution, like it hits their
servers first, but if that's not available it tries the other).

For example, I once worked on a multiplayer iOS game about collaboratively
writing stories based on keywords, and we were going to create a service to do
it, but in the end decided to use the built-in asynchronous turn support in
iOS GameKit.

Eventually the company folded, and if we had done our own service, the game
would be completely unplayable. But because we used Apple's built-in services,
it's still playable today, even though the company is gone, and even though
the app is no longer on the app store.

That's kind of what I'm thinking, but instead of Apple providing that service,
it's an Open Cloud service.

I was even thinking of writing an API to play mobile apps via email, where
JSON strings of game turn data being passed back and forth via email, possibly
via dedicated email addresses that the apps are given user/passwords to. Since
email is a basic protocol that isn't likely to go away anytime soon, it seemed
like a good tech to base that on.

------
aub3bhat
Its really sad to see Pebble going under. I really feel for the founders and
employees. Unlike other commenters here I dont think there is obvious way this
could have been avoided. Certain markets/companies do require a specific scale
of investments/growth/market-penetration to be sustainable. Wearables/Smart-
watches have proven to be a very difficult market and I pepole behind Pebble
should be commended for risk taking.

------
sreenadh
Can one please explain in simple english what actually happened? I did read
that fitbit was interested in buying pebble. I assumed it will be like apple
buying beats, and pebble will continue as usual.

Is fitbit shutting down pebble as pebble is a superior product over the crappy
fitbits?

The core strength of Pebble was its simple OS and energy efficient device. I
hope they opensource the OS.

~~~
uiri
Pebble is bankrupt. It owes more money to people/companies than it has/is
owed. People whom Pebble owes money to ("creditors") will be ordered in a
list. FitBit is buying some of the assets (software, IP, etc.). The proceeds
from this sale will go to their creditors, proceeding down the list. The
creditors at the end of the list won't get any of the money that they are
owed.

The founders and investors walk away with nothing because the company's value
is negative. Limited liability means that they are not personally on the hook
for any of the debts.

Pebble is winding down operations. Warranty, support, &c. stops because Pebble
as an entity will cease to exist. FitBit isn't buying Pebble the entity, it is
buying some of the things of value which Pebble the entity owned.

~~~
sreenadh
That makes sense. Pebble should post this message on their site. This is
clear. Thanks a lot.

------
mathrawka
A month before they made this announcement, I ordered a Time Steel. I waited 3
weeks for shipping, and the tracking code they sent me remained in "Waiting
for package from shipper" Then one day I got an email from their support
saying the package was returned to sender.... sure, they just didn't send it.
I requested the order to be cancelled, but was ignored until I said I want the
refund or will do a chargeback.

I contacted my friend that worked there and he said he was not surprised,
their support team was being disbanded and he and his team received an offer
to work elsewhere.

Too bad, Pebble was my favorite smartwatch out there (original one is dead)
and now I am stuck watchless because the only decent options are watches that
are 1 or 2 years old.

------
the_qbit
Right as I jumped on the bandwagon! Hurts.

Hopefully they have some influence over fitbit. I want to be able to make apps
and install / test from my OpenBSD box!

------
CodexArcanum
I've been generally dissatisfied with the smart watch options in general, even
more so than cell phones and the Sophie's choices for cell phones is pretty
bad!

What factors prevent open source hardware from being viable? Like if the basic
parts of the pebble (e-paper screens, small efficient processors, flat
batteries, etc) were open hardware so that any number of manufacturers could
just churn out the parts; and if there was a FOSS option for an OS to run that
hardware; what prevents a vibrant community from forming around those options?
We could have artisans putting together various nice watch options, and lots
of little apps to run on them. Why don't we have that?

~~~
htrp
>and the Sophie's choices for cell phones is pretty bad!

Mind elaborating?

------
iamatworknow
I was a Kickstarter backer in 2012 and still have my original Pebble. There
was a weird screen issue and I wanted to try other things, so I switched to
the Gear 2 Neo which was absolute garbage. Then I moved on to the Moto 360,
which also left me very disappointed when somehow the rear glass (the part
that rests on your wrist) shattered.

So I went back to Pebble and got the Time Steel about a year ago and it's been
flawless. Worked with my Note 4 and later (currently) with my iPhone 6S Plus.
It's a shame that they're not going to be around anymore for the next time I
get an itch to try something new. When this watch quits I'll probably just go
back to my Citizen.

~~~
Mtinie
I had both of my original KS Pebbles brick with the same screen issue.

Needless to say, you had a lot more faith in the company than I did after
that. I just considered my original KS pledge a bad investment and moved on
without looking back.

------
forvelin
their business strategy was terrible. -though, their developer support was
awesome-

I still wear my time steel and will get my time 2 refund, but I am surely
frustrated by how they screwed all it up. They did not open source any core
bits, left with crappy update which drains batteries and openly admitted
quality will get worse by time.

note-for-future : don't get into hype trains.

------
robhanlon
[https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/post/154163945728/pe...](https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/post/154163945728/pebble)

------
alexholehouse
One thought:

FitBit's customer service with me has been nothing but exceptional from start
to finish, and is the reason I have bought several for family members.

I would _hope_ that FitBit would recognize the loyalty they create based on
this quality of service could be magnified by grandfathering Pebble's various
services and by maintaining them, while helping Pebble users to transition at
their convenience. This would allow Pebble users to continue to have
functioning Pebble watches, with the likelihood of sticking with FitBit once
the watch does finally break.

~~~
wvenable
Fitbit doesn't own any of the services so they can't maintain them even if
they wanted to.

~~~
Kihashi
> It is because of the close collaboration with the Fitbit team that the
> Pebble user experience will continue. Fitbit will maintain services so that
> Pebble devices continue to work as normal. Pebble functionality and service
> may be reduced in the future.

FTA

------
cwisecarver
I backed the Time 2 and the Core. I was way more excited about the Core. I
have a 1st-gen Apple Watch and am perfectly happy with that. I was going to
give the Time 2 to my father-in-law for Christmas. It's really disappointing.
I'm really looking forward to someone explaining the what and whys of this.
Based on Fitbit's stock price over the last year I can't imagine this
acquisition will turn out good for either party, the developers going to
Fitbit, or the wearable community in general.

------
ohyoutravel
I had two Basis (original and the newer one) watches and when they had a
recall/shut down operations, they did a buy back of them. So I got a check for
the original purchase price of each and mailed them into Basis. Now that I
have a couple of presumably soon-to-be-useless Pebble watches sitting around,
it would be nice if they did the same thing. I nearly ordered a Time 2, but am
liking my Garmin Vivoactive HR, so thank goodness I didn't order one.

------
amirmansour
If FitBit wants current Pebble users to be their future customers, they should
definitely consider not making current Pebble devices useless.

I understand this is not a trivial task, but it looks like FitBit mostly
acquired Pebble's software engineers. So it would nice to see a new FitBit
flavored OS update for Pebbles. The hardware is there, it just needs the
software support. Pebble hardware with FitBit health/fitness services would a
be great combo.

~~~
wvenable
Fitbit didn't buy Pebble; they don't own any of the services and they
certainly cannot update the firmware for devices that belong to a different
company. They just bought the software and maybe hired a few engineers
(although I imagine a lot of jumped ship; I know at least one is going to
Intel instead).

Pebble will survive on the ingenuity of the community, not support of any
company. Assuming anyone takes up the task.

------
kolemcrae
I got royally screwed. Yesterday my 4 month old Pebble Time Round burned my
wrist and killed itself, today they announce they no loner honour the
warranty.

------
nepfvkej
Yet again, open-source to the rescue.

Current pebble users should look into Gadgetbridge[1].

Wrist computer enthusiasts trying to avoid future bricks should seek out and
support projects like AsteroidOS[2].

[1][https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/](https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/)

[2][http://asteroidos.org](http://asteroidos.org)

------
k2xl
I guess their latest Pebble version didn't get the sales they expected.

Definitely surprising that they weren't able to sell the company - they had
the brand and a loyal customer base. As an owner of a Pebble Time, I was
impressed by the integrations, simplicity of design, and battery life.

I wonder went wrong - hopefully, there will be some type of post-mortem on
these "various factors" over the next few weeks.

~~~
aikah
> Definitely surprising that they weren't able to sell the company

They sold their liabilities to Fitbit . Wasn't Pebble valuated billions of
dollars a few years ago? Something went terribly wrong.

~~~
detaro
Highest reported buyout offer was $740 million from Citizen.

~~~
sulam
That offer seems unlikely since that would have been a substantial portion of
Citizen's market cap.

------
rahoulb
I'm genuinely saddened by this.

My Time Round is the only smart watch I've found that looks like a real watch
(THIN) - they seemed to be the only ones that understood all the functionality
in the world means nothing if you've got an ugly brick strapped to your wrist.

(And as for a screen that only switches on when you raise your wrist - it's
like those people have no idea what a watch is for)

------
valine
Citizen buying pebble would have been so incredibly awesome. This is about the
worst possible ending imaginable for pebble. Sad day.

------
627467
I'm still interested in getting a Time Round and/or Time Steel.

I love my Pebble Time, and the best features I use it for do required any
cloud support: alarm, watchfaces, music control (to fast rewind/forward when
listening to podcasts while on bike), I mostly switch-off notifications, but
even those, I believe, won't require cloud support.

------
jotjotzzz8
I'm curious why they didn't take the Citizen offer for $700+ million. And then
that Intel offer, which is now a better deal than what Fitbit offered. There
must be more to the story. I feel that the CEO bears the blame for letting
this company down, could it be hubris? Can't wait to read more when this story
comes out.

~~~
Mtinie
> I'm curious why they didn't take the Citizen offer for $700+ million.

Probably the usual story when things fall apart after looking so bright:
hubris, greed, bad advice, due diligence that wasn't favorable, etc.

Let's see which new hardware companies spawn out of this debacle.

------
Leszek
Very disappointing for this backer that the Time 2 will never come out. It
makes you wonder where the kickstarter money went.

~~~
amarpatel
> Kickstarter backers who have not received their rewards will receive a full
> refund within 4-8 weeks as a chargeback to their credit cards. No further
> action is needed.

~~~
Leszek
No, I know that I'll be getting a refund, I just wonder why the kickstarter
money wasn't enough to fulfill the kickstarter rewards.

~~~
detaro
Kickstarter probably mostly covers production of the rewards, not the product
development.

~~~
gerryk
It's business 101 that the retail price should cover all production costs,
including R&D, otherwise you are in shortfall from day 0.

~~~
detaro
Retail price over the full sales run. Kickstarter was just the preorder phase
of it and thus likely doesn't cover the full R&D, especially not if the
estimates were off in some way.

------
sundvor
Well I for one am extremely sad about this. I had the Pebble Steel, stolen,
then Pebble Time Steel and now also the Pebble 2, with a Pebble Time 2 on
order.

I've loved Pebble from the first day I read about their original kickstarter.
Gutted to learn I'll never get my Time 2.. was it a manufacturing defect that
sunk the company?

At any rate I just found and placed an order for a white Pebble 2 for my wife.
I was going to wait a bit, but didn't want to take any chances on getting her
one now. Love the contrast of my lime / grey one.

I can't see anything replacing the Pebble now; nothing else offers week long
battery life and always on display.

Thanks to all the engineers and programmers for the work you've put in. I feel
sad for how it all panned out.

------
pfooti
Well, this sucks. I really don't want a fitbit - I like the pebble formfactor
and legit use it as a notifier. If I wanted a fitness tracker, I'd get a $15
pedometer.

I backed and received a pebble2 to replace my pebble1. (as a Under some
circumstances, I'd be fine just ignoring the acquisition and continuing to use
my p2. The real problem is when the pebble integrations stop working. If that
happens in a few months, I'm not going to be particularly happy.

I get that kickstarter is a gamble, as is buying products from marginal
manufacturers. But the pebble really is a product that doesn't seem to exist
anywhere else. Can anyone recommend a wearable that:

1) displays full notifications (email, text, etc)

2) handles navigation turn-by-turn directions

3) controls my music stream

4) lasts for a week+ on one charge

5) works on android (or better, is platform agnostic)

~~~
nathan_f77
Check out the Vector Watch: [http://vectorwatch.com/](http://vectorwatch.com/)

1) displays full notifications (email, text, etc)

Yes, although I'm not sure what you mean by "full" notifications.

2) handles navigation turn-by-turn directions

I couldn't find anything about that, so it doesn't look like it supports that
yet. But I assume that it is being developed.

3) controls my music stream

Yes.

4) lasts for a week+ on one charge

One charge lasts for 30 days (!)

5) works on android (or better, is platform agnostic)

Yes.

Disclaimer: I only found out about this watch a few hours ago, but a lot of
other Pebble users are pointing to this one as an alternative. It looks great
though, and I'm thinking about getting one.

~~~
Fnoord
> but a lot of other Pebble users are pointing to this one as an alternative.

Yeah, that's all nice, but what about the price comparison? I had a look and
the cheapest Vector I found was 400 USD. In contrast, the Pebble 2 via
Kickstarter cost 100 USD (OK, with VAT and S&H it was 115 USD for me).

> I couldn't find anything about that, so it doesn't look like it supports
> that yet. But I assume that it is being developed.

You see, that's the problem. Pebble has been around for multiple years and had
an ecosystem going. A lot of applications and watchfaces with functionality.

Pebble 2 versions also have a HRM. A Core would have a GPS. You wouldn't even
need a phone w/that. My Pebble 2 sync with Google Fit as well. That's a big
plus for sports like running and hiking (running with a phone sucks, esp as
phones become larger and larger).

Vector looks classy, like a Pebble Round I guess, and it has a huge benefit in
30 days battery. Even if your battery is starting to wear out you'll still be
able to use it for a long time, unlike the one day flies like Samsung and
Apple. What Samsung and Apple have going for it, is research into usability.
I'm not saying they're there yet but their products are iterations on
usability R&D. The usability isn't quite there yet. That's why smartwatches
aren't there yet. People know this. They read reviews. They speak to people
who got the watch.

I saw someone with a Vector saying they had a scratch on their screen. I'm
worried about the same on my Pebble 2. Previously, I'd just buy a new one (a
new official screen for my phone would cost 85 EUR; which is a lot less than
the average SGS or iPhone). I really wouldn't want that on a 400 USD product
without knowing beforehand how much a fix would be.

One thing I still miss with my Pebble is a simple shop list on my watch. I end
up grabbing my phone while in the grocery store for Google Keep just waiting
for that day a kid runs into me and oops, it falls, ca-ching 85 EUR new
screen.

------
lgleason
The wearables market is trying to find it's sustainable model at the moment
and we are at the low point of the hype cycle. Part of the issue has to do
with the business model with hardware devices like this. IE: A one time
hardware purchase that needs to fund all further software updates etc. and the
reliance on continually selling new hardware to stay in business.

Then there was the issue of needing to learn another dev stack to write
applications with it vs the Apple or Google offerings that leverage Android
and IOS development skills. Right now the largest market in the space is with
simple devices such as fitness trackers. The disappointing thing is that
Fitbit isn't as open with their bluetooth stack/Gatt profiles, but that's
another discussion.

------
aikah
Still taking orders on kickstarter right now...

[https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time...](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-2-time-2-and-
core-an-entirely-new-3g-ultra/comments)

------
jtruk
> Active Pebble watches will work normally for now. Functionality or service
> quality may be reduced down the road. We don’t expect to release regular
> software updates or new Pebble features.

I hope they open source Pebble OS, maybe even the assets that drive the Pebble
store.

------
dragonwriter
"Warranty support is no longer available" \-- if items were purchased with a
warranty, isn't that straight up breach of contract, for which Pebble (well,
Fitbit, which bought Pebble and thus inherits its liabilities) will be liable?

~~~
wvenable
Fitbit didn't buy Pebble. They bought the OS and they're trying to acquire
some of their staff. Pebble is simply shutting down.

~~~
dragonwriter
Ah, I misread or misremembered the earlier news. That makes more sense.

~~~
wvenable
The news was all "Fitbit buying Pebble" for the last few weeks but nobody had
any details nor confirmation. It was all rumors and speculation.

------
cableshaft
I have a Pebble 2. I charged it last night. I have the Pebble Android app and
I can't seem to get the two connected today. Is that because of this? Is there
something on the backend that's required for notifications/sending already
downloaded stuff from the app? I figured it did it all via the app on the
client side, except the store.

If I can't even connect anymore, that's pretty screwed up, and I'm angry. If
it just worked as it had before, just without the Pebble store or something, I
can live with that.

Please just be some minor glitch. I'm very happy with the device as it was
yesterday.

Anyone else having this problem?

~~~
xd1936
Shouldn't be. Service is staying uninterrupted for the immediate future.

~~~
cableshaft
Okay, I got it connected, it just took a lot of resetting of crap. Apparently
difficulty connecting with Android is a pretty common issue, as there's a lot
of complaining about it on their forums.

------
takeda
I'm starting to think that perhaps kickstart (or another kickstart like
service should be created) should only back projects that are open source
(source code of software, designs of hardware etc.).

Right now, when people are backing projects it essentially comes down to store
like behavior, where you essentially purchasing a product and are not even
guaranteed to receive it. If kickstarted products would instead be open,
community would own them, and many of them could continue to thrive.

Pebble seems like is a product that would be much more successful if it was
open sourced.

------
gnicholas
any idea how long before Fitbit can be expected to come out with a product
that integrates some of Pebble's goodies? I have been waiting on a Time Steel
2 since June, but I don't want to wait another 12 months for the teams to
integrate and a product to be released (and hope the first effort won't be a
frankenwatch).

I guess I'll have to look into the Apple Watch again—I didn't love it when I
first tried it, but that was with the old OS and slow processor. Hope Fitbit
can get something out the door before my Time Steel kicks the bucket!

------
dkroy
Is there an alternative out there right now with comparable battery life and
features? It looks like I won't be receiving my next pebble so I am looking
for something similar.

------
toxican
I'm devastated. I remember being so excited when the first kickstarter
happened, but I was broke and couldn't buy one. Then finally after years of
waiting and following them with interest, my wife bought me a Pebble Time for
our anniversary. That was 2 months ago and now the future of this amazing
device on my arm is completely up in the air. And what is the alternative?
Some over-priced, under-featured piece of garbage fitbit? No thanks.

------
headgasket
I also blame Apple. When you are a 1T$ company, I think it's a social
responsibility to not be ruthless in your pricing with small innovating
competitors running on the midnight oil. It's a page out of MS playbook. I
feel like a traitor for owning an apple watch. But at this rate, with their
ipadification (dropped all ports off the mbp) and product lineup explosion,
Apple is going where it was in the 90s anyway...

~~~
heisenbit
Pricing wise Pebble and iWatch were in a different league. The price of the
Pebble was determined by Pebble judging the demand and their ability to
manufacture and supply at a certain cost.

Almost all the profits in the cell phone, laptop and digital watch business
flow to Apple. In no category they are playing in the lower priced band. It
seems to me like manufacturing in the lower/medium price band is a commodity.
Ability to generate sustainable profit - absent of strong branding - is
limited.

------
mattmaroon
I know how heartbreaking that must be for the founders, but at least they're
going out the classy way. I'm sure we'll hear from them again.

------
linsomniac
Love the Pebble, so sad to see it go. I had one of the originals, and now have
a Time Steel I love. Feel a little bit like they shot themselves in the foot
because I'd have been willing to pay $200 for the watch, but there were tons
of refurb ones for under $100 available, so that's the one my Fiance got me. I
tried one of the Android watches, but hated it. The Pebble was soooo much
better.

------
afrancis
Love my Pebble. Has almost everything I wanted in a watch. Found it a pity
that on the marketing front, Pebble never seemed to get top of mind (or
anything near there). My current's watch's display is starting to shred.
Debating buying a second watch while they are still available. Downloaded the
SDK and will grab the tutorials. Hopefully Fitbit will keep this information
around.

------
joshstrange
I have a first gen Apple Watch after having the Pebble Steel and I was very
much considering going back to Pebble, this is very sad news.

------
dudisbrie
What a great story from Kickstarter's most valuable player to a debt monster
that make every of its loyal customer angry

------
headgasket
This is so sad. I had the new time2 with the core on kickstarter. This would
have been a truly innovative product, why oh why? I see on crunchbase they had
only raised 15M-- so theres G$ available for a nth round of evernote or
dropbox and not a few M$ to help these guys see it to market? This is a
terrible day for innovation.

------
trapperkeeper79
The iFixit was very interesting. It has a freakin FPGA?? A comment said it was
there to drive the e-ink display, while the MCU slept. Any confirmation on
that? Also, what the heck was the smart strap supposed to be?

This is sad because I was just about to get a Pebble (had tried beefier
watches but felt battery life was too limited).

~~~
slantyyz
>> This is sad because I was just about to get a Pebble (had tried beefier
watches but felt battery life was too limited).

Yeah this is sad. I had a Pebble 2 on my short list as a fitness tracker but
went with something else. I liked that their devices didn't try to be too
much. They were good at a few things and had a battery life I could live with.

~~~
RobotCaleb
What did you go with? I have Pebble 2 HR on my Christmas list. I had taken it
off when these rumors started, but I couldn't find anything I liked more. I'm
interested in Google Fit integration as I'm using that to track my runs.

~~~
slantyyz
I went with a Xiaomi Mi Band 2. My main desire was for sleep tracking and
Google Fit integration. It was dirt cheap and it's comfortable to wear while
sleeping. The Xiaomi app integrates with Google Fit. I also have the Xiaomi
smart scale, so I have been able to push all my info into Google Fit fairly
seamlessly.

------
jscheel
So, basically, there will be no way to load watchfaces or apps when their
servers go down, and a lot of other things will also stop working. I've been a
big advocate of Pebble for a long time. This is a great middle finger to all
of us that have been with them from the beginning.

------
rdl
This is the most orderly shutdown of a hardware+services company I've seen.
Congrats to Team Pebble for that.

It has to suck to end this way after 8 years. :(

I hope someone builds a product like Pebble Core; I'm not sure how generally
viable that is, but I'd love to have it myself.

~~~
TeMPOraL
> _This is the most orderly shutdown of a hardware+services company I 've
> seen. Congrats to Team Pebble for that._

Oh, then you wasn't aware of the shitstorm that was happening on Reddit,
Pebble forums and Kickstarter. The company basically went silent a month or so
ago. Then, after the news of the acquisition broke early, they slowly
progressed from total silence to completely unprofessional behaviour (i.e.
posting stupid shit and not answering anything).

I was - still am - a great fan of Pebble, so this whole affair really hurts
me. :(.

~~~
rdl
Maybe you're right -- I didn't see that. I was mostly concerned w/ refunds on
pending KS (which they don't have to do) and with them not shutting down the
servers.

It's not ideal, but I suspect they have limited resources. I wish there were a
way for companies to pay into an escrow/bond/whatever to keep their HW
products alive in case of failure. I was really sad when Zeo (sleep tracking
EEG thing) died; couldn't get the website or replacement consumables :(

------
kingosticks
That's a real shame. The search for a small Spotify-enabled device continues.

~~~
freekh
Mine too :/

------
digi_owl
I can't help but wonder if the whole timeline thing overcomplicated the pebble
platform. I for one lost a bit of interest in the whole thing once i learned
they where heading in that direction with future products.

------
bryanlarsen
Is there any way to get a Pebble 2 instead of a refund on my Time 2 pledge?

~~~
dirtbox
Take the refund and pick up a P2 from Best Buy or Target (or regional
equivalent) for a fraction of the cost.

They no longer appear to be sending anything at all out.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Thanks, I didn't realize they were in stores yet. I'd better hurry before they
run out of inventory.

------
merpnderp
I'm sad I'm not getting my Time 2, but that is really awesome of them to
refund my money from their Spring Kickstarter. They didn't have to do that,
which is much appreciated.

------
reustle
For those curious, you can still buy the Pebble 2 online via BestBuy, Walmart,
Amazon, etc.

Did the Pebble Time 2 ever get completed? Did anyone receive one? I was really
looking forward to it...

~~~
hexxeh
It did not. There's a number of prototype units in existence, but that's it.

------
JustSomeNobody
I wanted that Pebble core. This is sad.

I sincerely hope all the Pebble employees are able to transition to other jobs
with minimal impact to their lives. Good luck in your future endeavors!

------
iblaine
I'm not sure how to react to this news. I have 3 pebble watches and 2 of them
are broken. If fitbit can fix the pebble quality problem then I may buy more.

------
yalogin
I was looking at Pebble before but this shuts that down.

Coincidentally I noticed that the market for luxury watches has heated up ever
since Apple Watch was released.

------
DiabloD3
But I thought Fitbit was exiting the wearable market?

~~~
ClassyJacket
...What else do they make?

~~~
sulam
There's a scale. ;) But yeah, still making those wristbands!

------
imode
in the words of Jason Scott...

"I can summarize this for you... uh...

..."FUCK"... and uh.. "YOU"."

another victim of "our incredible journey."

------
ecesena
tl;dr: hardware won't be produced anymore (currently working hw will still
work).

Software will work on fitbit. Details here:
[https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-
commu...](https://developer.pebble.com/blog/2016/12/06/developer-community-
update/)

------
tokenizerrr
I actually had a Peddle around my wrist a few months ago, decided I didn't
like it and sent it back. Really glad I did.

------
lucaspottersky
wow.

this sounds like "yeah, f*ck ya'all up, we are leaving this boat".

i guess that's what you get from "small startups".

------
djhworld
I've had my Pebble Time (1) for about 18 months now, sad to hear this.

No other smartwatch can boast 4-5 day battery life.

~~~
nathan_f77
30 days: [http://vectorwatch.com/](http://vectorwatch.com/)

------
tezza
So do the existing hardware watches become collectors items or second draw
fillers ?

------
deegles
Did Pebble employees have stock options? Is there any money left for them?

~~~
ohsnapman
> The deal will mean the Pebble stock held by employees is worthless, two of
> the people said. The money will instead go to debt holders, vendors, some of
> its main equity investors, and Kickstarter refunds for the Time 2 and Pebble
> Core orders, the people said.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-
sa...](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-07/pebble-said-to-
discuss-selling-software-assets-to-fitbit)

------
gabrielcsapo
Open source what should have originally been open sourced?

------
ausjke
what's the core reason, wearable is not as popular as it is thought to be? too
early for the generic public? Apple iwatch competition? something else?

------
gerryk
Sad to see the failure of a truly alternative product.

------
distantsounds
"66,673 backers pledged $12,779,843 to help bring this project to life."

Welp.

------
pwelch
This is sad to hear. It was a really cool product.

------
delroekid
damn.. i felt bad about this

------
m4tthumphrey
Wow that didn't take long.

------
sickbeard
What's the point of warranties and cloud services if you can just be like
"oops, goodbye"? Can they be sued for this?

~~~
davedunkin
> Can they be sued for this?

Pebble Tech is insolvent[1]. Even if they were successfully sued, there's no
money to collect. One would have to go after the management personally, or try
to prove that Fitbit's acquisition of key assets should really be considered
acquisition of the whole company, including obligations.

1\.
[http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/](http://www.proofofclaims.com/PebbleTech/documents/)

