
Tamil Nadu state departments asked to switch over to open source software - d4vlx
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/tn-state-departments-asked-to-switch-over-to-open-source-software/article5799039.ece
======
keithpeter
A number of comments here are pointing out the considerable barriers to
migration away from Microsoft based systems; back end systems; file
compatibility with MS Office formats; training needs for significantly
different interfaces on a 'desktop' system.

The UK govts recent suggestion that we require open formats _may_ begin to
address one of those issues [1]. The move to more recent browser mediated
applications _might_ mitigate another. A new generation will have grown up
with _devices_ that probably don't run Windows [2] and that _might_ reduce the
training issues associated with UI changes.

Can I turn the question round: how many decades do we think that the default
systems for large enterprises and governments will be provided by Microsoft?

And if a country as huge as India with a developed IT workforce of the kind
India has decides to start a migration programme, the resulting pool of
skilled people and working software (GPL Licensed software) would make future
migrations that much easier. I personally wish the UK had a Munich or two
simply so we can develop the skills here.

[1] [http://opensource.com/government/14/2/uk-government-open-
sta...](http://opensource.com/government/14/2/uk-government-open-standards)

[2]
[http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2014/03/21/microsoft_sorgen...](http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2014/03/21/microsoft_sorgen_intelligent_devices/)

~~~
eitally
There have actually been quite a few public organizations that have migrated
to Linux:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters)

~~~
keithpeter
Ctrl-F and UK reveals no UK based examples on that pager. Alas. Once again, we
risk missing out on a potential new market.

------
zxexz
Having spent some time in India dealing with scattered govt. Windows
infrastructure, this is amazing news. This may also open up many new
opportunities in computer education and literacy which is very deficient in
the country. I really hope this switch does happen.

~~~
D9u
Some of the best hackers I know are in India, and they don't use Microsoft
products... I'm talking truly gifted people.

I myself am a BSD fanatic, but I recommend Linux based systems to all of my
Windows using friends.

~~~
kashif
This might be because you are an Indian and the only hackers you know are
Indian.

~~~
keithpeter
Which I read as the point that the parent post was making: India can 'pull
itself up by its bootstraps' by using the pool of Linux/BSD oriented
developers to help a large scale migration project thus further developing the
skills base.

------
tatqx
Slightly off note, but any movement by the Indian government should be
appreciated, considering how much inertia they have :) More on the topic - way
back in 1995 when CD-ROM drives became affordable and popular in India [1], I
expected Linux to thrive in the country considering how nobody, especially
students and enthusiasts, had the money to buy legit copies of Windows. Sadly
that never happened. At least the universities could have done their bit to
teach and promote Linux, but they too didn't.

[1] Internet connections were so slow that it was impossible for most people
to download a Linux distro on off the internet. But there were a lot of
computer magazines distributing various Linux distros on CDs for a Rs. 100 or
thereabout.

~~~
groovy2shoes
> Internet connections were so slow that it was impossible for most people to
> download a Linux distro on off the internet. But there were a lot of
> computer magazines distributing various Linux distros on CDs for a Rs. 100
> or thereabout.

As a teenager, the only Internet access I could afford was Netzero. Any time I
had $13 to spare, I'd head to Books-a-Million and buy a copy of the Linux
Format, if only so I could upgrade my Linux partition. Good times :) Do Linux
mags still come with discs?

~~~
noisyboy
Not only in India but even present day UK magazines (e.g. Linux Format) come
with DVDs.

------
aviraldg
Not many people know this but Linux is already quite popular in the South
(esp. in schools and government offices)

~~~
gphilip
In particular, the Department of General Education of the state of Kerala
(more than 12,000 schools, about 6 million students, and about 200,000
teachers [1]) heavily promotes FOSS software both as a medium of teaching (all
subjects, not just ICT) and as a tool for administration. This initiative is
called the "IT@School Project" [2], and they develop and use their own
customized version of Ubuntu (called "IT@School GNU/Linux" [3]) in all their
schools. They do quite a bit of customization to adapt available FOSS software
to the needs of their audience (which is drawn from all strata of society;
this is (almost) free and compulsory education provided by the state).

The project uses customized FOSS software, such as Dr. Geo, Rasmol, K-Tech
lab, Geogebra, Chemtool, and Kalcium [4], to teach various subjects. They also
have ICT as a separate subject starting from Class 4 (9-year olds). As part of
this, they start teaching programming (in Python, and using games, graphics,
and other age-appropriate methods, and starting _very_ gently) from Class 4.
(They also teach a lot of other stuff.)

The project implements a lot of e-governance programs using FOSS software.
This includes [4]:

1\. A single-window admission system for higher-secondary education

2\. Computerization of the program of providing free lunch in schools

3\. Online transfer and posting of teachers

4\. Software for administering the state's annual Youth Festival (Arts
competitions. Around 10,000 participants this year, often touted as Asia's
largest such event.)

5\. ERP software for arts festivals at the school level.

6\. Software for administering scholarships

7\. Centralised online textbook intend system

8\. Payroll administration for teachers and other staff in the department

9\. Software for monitoring physical fitness programmes in schools

(In case you are wondering: every school is provided a (paid-for) broadband
connection as well.)

They estimate that the shift to FOSS has saved the state quite a bit of money
already [5]:

"The Project has supplied thousands of computers and laptops to schools in the
state. about 50,000 computers to schools. The proprietary OS and other
application software come with a price tag of about Rs. 10,000/\- per PC. By
deploying Free Software based Operating System and applications instead of
Proprietary software , IT@School Project is able to save an amount of Rs.11
Crores (Rs. 110 million) each year. Also the Educational content like
interactive multimedia CDs are now being developed on free software platform,
resulting in a savings of Rs. 75 lakhs (Rs. 7.5 million). The examination
software which was developed using free software has effected in a savings of
about Rs. 25 lakhs (Rs. 2.5 millon)."

[1]
[https://www.itschool.gov.in/glance.php](https://www.itschool.gov.in/glance.php)

[2] [https://www.itschool.gov.in/](https://www.itschool.gov.in/)

[3]
[https://www.itschool.gov.in/downloads.php](https://www.itschool.gov.in/downloads.php)

[4]
[https://www.itschool.gov.in/activities.php](https://www.itschool.gov.in/activities.php)

[5]
[https://www.itschool.gov.in/otherprograms.php#6](https://www.itschool.gov.in/otherprograms.php#6)

(Edit: Minor fixes, formatting.)

~~~
vince_refiti
Dr. Geo! - [http://www.drgeo.eu/home](http://www.drgeo.eu/home). Go (Pharo)
Smalltalk!

------
jezclaremurugan
For people wondering about BOSS linux, it is Debian based, and is bundled with
LibreOffice, Gnome, Iceweasel (browser) etc. the usual stuff and is
distributed by CDAC Chennai. CDAC Chennai adds value to the distro by
providing support (they have a toll free number where anyone call for any
doubts in relation to BOSS), ensuring all the drivers of local printers are
present, local fonts are all set up and working right from the beginning. They
also provide training when any govt. department switches to BOSS.

Source - I worked in CDAC Chennai and was involved in a project related to
BOSS, and quite a few depts. were switching to BOSS while I was there (2 yrs
back)

------
okasaki
Whenever these stories appear it seems impossible to tell if they're genuine
or just trolling Microsoft to try to get a better deal.

~~~
vince_refiti
Yes. You'd think that they would have moved to open source already if they
could. Impending end of support for XP was no secret nor unexpected.

------
Oculus
Aside from the city of Munich, are their any other governments that are using
Linux as their main operating system?

~~~
liquidwax
North Korea.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS)

~~~
crdoconnor
Even North Korea, they're still training them on office/windows:

[http://imgur.com/lQQGjyu](http://imgur.com/lQQGjyu)

(taken in a school in pyongsong, autumn last year)

~~~
ekianjo
This is probably just to make it look like they do learn stuff on computers,
but the level of poverty in NK is so appalling I doubt they have computers in
most schools.

~~~
leoc
Oh, most people in NK never get a sniff of a computer. But it has some
animation and IT-outsourcing businesses which are no doubt a nice little
foreign-currency earner for the government:

[http://www.koreaittimes.com/story/8242/north-korea-needs-
set...](http://www.koreaittimes.com/story/8242/north-korea-needs-set-
practical-it-training-and-certification-systems)

[http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906219,00...](http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906219,00.html)

[http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2012/8/153816-inside-the-
hermi...](http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2012/8/153816-inside-the-hermit-
kingdom/fulltext) (A¢M paywalled)

------
theyeti
This may come as a bit skeptical, but IMHO the large scale adaptation of a
Linux distro in Indian state departments seems a long way to. The lack of
Linux operational training to the personnel along with replacement costs may
call for an early demise to the plan to switch to Linux. While it does sound
promising, the average government clerk in India, is computer literate in
terms of Microsoft Office suite. Replacement of MS Office with Libre/Open
Office suite itself is a big hurdle which in terms of usability is still in
its early days. In addition, most systems on government offices I've seen run
IE8 as their primary browsers, running applications "designed for IE only". I
believe that if the switch to a Linux distro is to be made, the government
should start with replacing leagcy windows software with their open source,
linux compatible counterparts, before making the big move.

~~~
digisign
There are significant training cost assoc with windows 7,8, and later office
vers as well. Xubuntu might be closer to XP in many respects.

~~~
danieldk
I don't think that is true, especially for Windows 7. But there are other
issues to consider. Windows 7 is from 2009 and is still supported until 2020
(!). There is no Linux distribution outside RHEL and probably SLES that
provides such long support cycles.

And even the comparison with RHEL is not really fair. New applications will
continue to be compatible with Windows 7 for many years, while with RHEL you
are mostly stuck with what you get with a particular version. EPEL et al. do
provide some relief.

Suggesting that Xubuntu is a viable replacement is disingenuous - Xubuntu
12.04 LTS is supported until 2015. Let's take vanilla Ubuntu 12.04 for the
sake of the argument. It's supported until 2017. A large organisation will not
deploy a new system when it is released (many organisations are migrating to
Windows 7 four or five years after the release). So, let's say that they
deploy it now. That's only good for three years of support. So, in three years
you have to redo the whole migration. Users have to be retrained now for GNOME
2 and in 2017 for Unity. You see where it is going, it is a mess.

Of course, then there is the issue that many existing Windows software doesn't
work on Linux, compatibility of LibreOffice with Office documents, etc.

Linux on the enterprise desktop is usually not a viable option, except if you
already have good infrastructure to support and maintain it (e.g. Google), or
for a subset of users (e.g. developers).

~~~
qwerta
> supported until 2020 (!). There is no Linux distribution outside RHEL

The RHEL derivates such as CentOS or Scientific Linux provide such long
support.

> that many existing Windows software doesn't work on Linux, compatibility of
> LibreOffice with Office documents, etc

There is Wine which allows to run Windows programs on Linux just fine. I am
still using Office 2000. Compatibility is also problem with newer Windows and
I would say that in long run Linux will be more compatible with WinXP than
Windows themselfs. Microsoft seems very eager to drop old functions to boosts
its sales.

You are also forgetting that upgrading Linux is usually much easier. MS is
changing UI every version and it requires retraining users and administrators.

~~~
danieldk
_The RHEL derivates such as CentOS or Scientific Linux provide such long
support._

By virtue of Red Hat. If Red Hat goes away, I'd be surprised if they can keep
up that commitment. Besides that CentOS is now a Red Hat project.

 _There is Wine which allows to run Windows programs on Linux just fine. I am
still using Office 2000._

Now try Office 2013. Last time I tried, not even CrossOver could run new
Office versions without serious loss of functionality.

 _MS is changing UI every version and it requires retraining users and
administrators._

Windows 7 is very similar to Windows XP. The same can't be said for e.g. GNOME
2 -> Unity or GNOME 2 -> GNOME 3.

~~~
pessimizer
>By virtue of Red Hat. If Red Hat goes away, I'd be surprised if they can keep
up that commitment.

Why would Red Hat be going away?

>Now try Office 2013. Last time I tried, not even CrossOver could run new
Office versions without serious loss of functionality.

Libreoffice exists, and is very adequate for a government agencies'
typesetting needs.

>Windows 7 is very similar to Windows XP.

Windows 7 is also an old product that is being phased out in favor of 8 and
8.1.

>The same can't be said for e.g. GNOME 2 -> Unity or GNOME 2 -> GNOME 3.

What about GNOME 2 -> MATE or GNOME 2 -> Cinnamon?

------
linux_devil
Hope "may" changes to "will" in coming future . Not just state departments but
infrastructure services here use windows , e.g.: metro stations , ATM machines
. Switch can help to save money which can be used in other developments much
needed for the society without comprising efficiency of governance.

~~~
quarterwave
I've seen ATM's being serviced/refilled - one can usually spot a "tower" PC in
there. When an ATM app crashes the underlying PC operating system GUI is
visible - with the standard screen background.

OTOH my <big bank in India> has good online services, usage pattern
monitoring, two-factor authentication etc. With this bank I've never had a
single online transaction as much as hang or go wrong in the past 10 years.
When I travel I sometimes get a call to verify the transaction I've just made
at an ATM.

So the only conclusion I can draw is that the bank finds it easier to
monitor/control things from their data center. They probably consider all
terminals as vulnerable and operate from that premise.

------
briantakita
> “Consider installing BOSS [Bharat Operating System Solutions] Linux as one
> of the mandatory operating system,”

It would be good for India to take control over it's own operating system. It
would open up their market of software developers. Making the Linux community
stronger is another strong benefit for everybody.

------
sreejithr
State of Kerala in India already uses Linux for almost everything. From basic
functioning of government offices to computer education in the schools.

------
auctiontheory
It's about time. In fact, it's way past time. But don't expect Microsoft to
give up without a great deal more fight, a legal challenge or two, and other
tactics from their vast playbook.

~~~
S4M
What can they possibly do to prevent the state department to switch to Linux
(except bribing some people)?

~~~
noisyboy
Your "except" is pretty big to be put in "except".

Apart from that, simply resistance from users, who are not really "computer
people" and basically know that clicking the "w" icon launches the application
on which letters can be drafted, is not a small matter. I hope the training
programmes are well planned to cover that aspect.

~~~
S4M
Resistance to change from non "computer people", as you put it, has nothing to
do with something Microsoft can do. And concerning the bribery, yes, I
wouldn't be surprised if it was one of the main reason linux and free software
in general didn't get more adoption.

------
patja
I know this is completely tangential, but I am hoping someone can enlighten
me. What's the best way to think about or explain the prevalence of
grammatical errors in the Indian English-language press?

Is it because Indian English is its own distinct dialect or variation with
different rules, similar to differences between American and British English?

Is it because English is fundamentally a lingua franca in India where nobody
is expected to really master the grammar, including the press?

Is it because the press in India doesn't consider it important? I know in my
local press in the US I've seen many more typographical and grammatical errors
creep in since newspapers went into decline a few years ago.

Or is there something else explaining it which I have not imagined?

~~~
gphilip
If I may ask: Did you find such errors in the linked article? Is this what
prompted your question?

"The Hindu" (linked in the post) is one newspaper which takes these things
seriously. They even have an "ombudsman" of sorts (whom they call the
"Reader's Editor") and they encourage readers to write in to this person
pointing out all sorts of mistakes, including grammatical [1].

Constraints of the printed page would also explain some of the "different"
language which one finds in newspapers.

[1]
[http://www.thehindu.com/navigation/?type=static&page=contact](http://www.thehindu.com/navigation/?type=static&page=contact)

~~~
patja
I did find some errors in the article, albeit many of them were in the quotes
from government communications. My question was prompted by this as well as
the experience I've had reading newspapers and magazines in India during
visits I've made. The tone and language used in the Indian press is often
quite striking when compared to other English language press.

Many of the errors were in the quotes, but there are some in the article
itself. Some of the errors that stood out to me were simply the omission of
the word "the", for example

"With the Microsoft Corporation deciding to stop technical assistance for
Windows XP operating system next month, the Tamil Nadu government has advised
all its departments to install free open source software BOSS Linux."

Just as the author uses "the" in "the Microsoft Corporation" I expect to see
"the Windows XP operating system" and "the open source software BOSS Linux"

Here is another:

"many of them continued to Windows XP use as the primary operating system"

Sentences like this one stand out as well:

"The prompt for the present advisory is the Microsoft decision as a result of
which security updates or technical support for Windows XP operating system
would not be discontinued after April 8."

~~~
samscrazy
The article was just poorly proofread, that's all. The Hindu should have
better editorial standards than this. p.s. I'm Indian, and I don't think any
claim that this article represents 'Indian English' \-- I'm not even sure what
that means -- makes sense.

------
rajeevk
I am curious to know more about BOSS. The
[http://bosslinux.in/](http://bosslinux.in/) is not opening (not responding to
http request). Does anybody know any alternate link?

~~~
abrowne
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOSS_Linux](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOSS_Linux)

------
cycnusx
OSS, the order said, “is almost free of virus. Hence loss of information,
hacking, phishing can be prevented… there is no need to spend on expensive
anti virus software.”

I disagree with that statement.

~~~
dredmorbius
The general threat model for Linux systems is outdated installations with
extant security holes, often remotely exploitable. This is in contrast with
Windows in which a huge class of exploits are by way of content placed by
users on their own systems, more often technically trojans than viruses.

This isn't to say that Linux is wholly immune to security exploits. It's not.
But it's _hugely_ more manageable and securable than Windows is, even in more
recent versions. Which, though they've addressed much of the problem, still
leave huge classes of vulnerabilities open.

The ability to configure minimal systems on Linux (principle of least
privilege) with _only_ the software and services required for functionality
helps hugely in this.

~~~
fzltrp
To be honest, it is possible to configure windows (starting from XP) with a
minimal set of enabled capabilities. The system policies mechanism is quite
featurefull, and you lock a system down to minimal rights. It is also possible
to deploy system patches and updates locally to a domain from the server (what
they call a domain controller) comfigured to do so. In fact you can pretty
much control any client associated to a domain relotely with the right access
token.

Imho, the main issue is more in:

\- setting up the right set of policies, it's a difficult task. On a unix
system, the problem is probably easier to tackle because the first (simpler)
layer of security implemented through the file system (linux for instance
provides a more elaborated capability mechanism, many others unix also each
have their own implementations of a policy/capability mechanism).

\- letting end users having too much control on their computer, because often
time they wish to install all sort of products on their own (this is
especially true of developpers, but usually computer literates are more
security minded than the lambda user). With web apps, this problem is nowadays
shifted toward the browser, so maybe this problem isn't as much of an issue as
it was 10 years ago for system wide policy enforcement (but as I said it is
now one at the browser level).

------
dan_bk
Every new big player means "more eyes" on the code. And bugs get rooted out
quicker.

In the case of proprietary software, every new big player means "more social
lock in effect".

------
webreac
I think the main difficulty in migration from windows XP to linux is leaving
word, excel, outlook, ie and powerpoint. If users have already migrated to
open alternatives (libre office, ...), the OS switch is almost transparent.

~~~
donniezazen
I don't think Microsoft Office is any better than LibreOffice for general
users. Most of the Indian government officials are tad computer illiterate.
They would not know what they use.

~~~
dijit
even basic things in Excel are not supported in libreoffice, such as
validations.

I recently attempted to move everyone in my office to libreoffice where
possible and was met with a very large resistence from people who's
spreadsheets simply did not work.

it's hard telling people that they have to edit functions/macros that were set
up by someone smarter than them 10 years ago.

~~~
webreac
That is commpletely my point. I think there is more resistence for word,
excel, outlook, powerpoint than for windows.

------
pskittle
Way to go! much needed.

