
How good were you at college? - ptn
I'm in my third year of college, I have average grades, nothing surprising (although I think I could do better if I applied (yeah sure)). I certainly don't measure my life by how good my grades are though, I'm just curious. How good were your grades guys?
======
DaniFong
I started out thinking that grades weren't everything, but then when I got my
first A+'s I realized that really learning material dead was a terrific thing
educationally. I was also greatly swayed by the fact that this could earn me
scholarships. These scholarships ended up paying for me the whole way -- I
couldn't get an entrance scholarship because I never went to highschool.

I could choose my classes so that the material would be generally useful, by
moving into a combined honors, or interdisciplinary degree. I tried really
hard, and eventually people started coming to me for tutoring. I taught a few
classes, professors asked if I wanted to work with them, and eventually I
graduated with the university medal.

One thing that I never gave up on was the idea that you can turn anything from
an 'assignment' into a really educational experience by going above and
beyond. In math assignments, prove auxiliary theorems, and the general case.
Always do the bonus problems. For projects, release on Sourceforge. Write
essays to please an online audience. For new projects that would be better in
a different language, learn the new language. Learn everything from first
principles, and when something looks wrong, bring it up. Do all the readings,
and read the original works. Program in programming contests. Program for fun.
Program as reflex. Don't ask permission to do research. Live in Libraries.
Play games with smart people. Give talks. Teach. Publish. Learn.

University, for many people, seemed to involve a lot of rote learning, but I
seem to have avoided that substantially. I loved my years in college.

~~~
asdflkj
How does one get into a university without a high school diploma? Is it
possible to get into a good one?

I dropped out of high school, and thinking that college would be more of the
same, I didn't even consider applying. This was a mistake, but I had
immigrated to the US only a short time prior, and didn't know these things. I
learned to study on my own (and ended up "living" in my local university's
library for a time), but now my motivation is waning, and I think it's due to
lack of external pressure.

Err, sorry for the life story; what I'm getting to is this. I always assumed
that I've missed my opportunity, and that going to college now, while
possible, would be more trouble than it's worth. It wouldn't be a good
college, and I'd have to pay for all of it. Until today, I didn't even know
you could earn scholarships while in college.

You said you never went to high school--was your situation similar? How did
you get in, and where?

~~~
DaniFong
Well, for starters, I'm from Canada, and went to a Canadian university. I
dropped out in 7th grade, and in lieu of a diploma or a GED (I couldn't write
one until I was 19), I wrote the SATs and took programming classes at
Community College, doing well enough to convince the math department at my
university to start me out in a trial period.

I took two classes per term in my first year, and I got A+'s. When I called up
the dean of science to thank him for letting me in, I found out that he had
died of a heart attack. Before passing away, however, apparently he had
enrolled me full-time. From that point on I was a full, legitimate student.

I know several people who have gone into college with a GED, and a few others
that went into college before they graduated highschool. Some were in the USA,
though it was markedly fewer. Often you have to talk with the math departments
to get anywhere.

Scholarships are quite attainable in college, but since the tuition is much
cheaper in Canada it makes more of a difference. You can also win summer
research studentships, and these are lucrative enough on a student budget as
well. Finally you can get paid to tutor, mark assignments, and teach classes.

~~~
asdflkj
Ahh, so you assassinated the dean of science, and counterfeited his paperwork!
Seriously though, thanks for replying.

I did actually take classes at a Community College at the same time as when I
was in high school, and I really hated it. It was academically like high
school and socially like a Dilbertesque job (especially the programming
classes). Worst of all, it led me to think that I don't like math. After a
couple of years, I accidentally came across a textbook on mathematical logic
and proofs, and it was like being hit on the head with a brick. I thought,
"Why did they hide this stuff from me?". No wonder math had been frustrating--
it wasn't really math, any more than using Windows is computer science.

Anyway! There are bad things in my Community College transcript. I wonder if
that will hinder me, or if I have the option of just pretending it never
happened...

Is there something special about math departments in universities (less
corruption? a lot of influence?), or did you just guess, correctly, that I
wanted to study math?

~~~
DaniFong
You totally have the option of just pretending community college never
happened. Just don't mention that you were ever there.

I got fairly lucky with community college: there was another really bright
student there. He coded a 3d engine in _ASM_. So I learned a lot from him.

I didn't guess that you wanted to study math, though it's not much of a guess
that you'd like it.

The thing about math departments at research universities is that the field
has largely been written by ex-prodigies (each textbook seems to include a
mini-bio on galois...), and they don't care much for rules or structure since
much of the faculty had to struggle with such artificial things anyway.

So I tended to have a lot of luck talking with math departments. I was quite a
writer back then too -- better than the pupils of the English department, it
seemed, but there I really doubt I would have gained the traction I had gained
with the math department.

By the way, if you don't read Scott Aaronson or Terry Tao, I strongly suggest
that you do -- they're wonderful bloggers, and Scott has a terrific (though
unfinished) set of notes called Quantum Computing since Democritus. A book you
might really like is "What is mathematics" by Courant -- it's wonderful.

------
cperciva
I had an A average -- I could have had an A+ average, but I was too busy
{publishing research papers, calculating the quadrillionth bit of Pi, writing
the Putnam, playing violin in symphony orchestras} and knew that with the rest
of my academic record, nobody would care if I had an A average or an A+
average.

I was right -- in the 7 years since I graduated it has been everything I did
_in addition to taking classes_ which has gotten me places, not my grades in
the courses themselves. Every year, at every college in the world, there's
someone who graduates with the highest GPA. If you want to make yourself stand
out more than that -- to make the point that you are not just the best of your
year, but the best of the decade -- you need something other than just GPA.

~~~
ardit33
I agree. Thou a 3.0 and higher GPA demonstrates commitment to work. You have
to be either really stupid or lazy (or smoking too much pot) to get a lower
GPA than that.

I'd say, the perfect GPA is something around 3.5+ If you are 4.0 (or almost),
there is a good chance you either didn't have enough fun, or didn't do other
things in the side while at school. Not a very balanced person. even geniouses
get A- or Bs once and a while.

A person that gets only A = annal retentive personality.

~~~
aswanson
I didn't get good grades until grad school. Undergrad was too useless to me
and I didn't get interested in any of the material presented before senior
year. But electrical engineering is a useless major anyway. An artifact of the
20th century.

~~~
falsestprophet
Please explain. I have a few friends studying it and they seem to think they
are going to make 80k starting.

~~~
aswanson
Electrical engineering is interesting from an applied physics/mathematical
standpoint. From the point of view of day-to-day work, a large segment of it
has been reduced to providing a life support system for the microprocessor,
which, you guessed it, runs software. Almost every EE I know is a programmer.
Analog electronics, one of my early interests, has been pretty much reduced to
power supply design and maybe some mixed-signal modem design. On the low end,
there are advances in materials that enable Moore's law, but this is more
applied physics than EE. Control theory jobs are almost nonexistent outside
academia.

A lot of the higher level mathematics is cool: I personally liked dsp and
stochastic systems but it got repetitive. Most CS programs offer similar math
anyway. I wanted to go deeper into how the math was developed.

In short, the traditional electrical engineering field is being heavily
encroached by software and the high end math isn't interesting enough. Which
is why, if I had to do it all over, I would have done math, CS, physics, a lot
of chem, and maybe an EE course or two. Boucher is right, it is a very
difficult major, but boot camp is difficult too. I just wish it were more
relevant to what is going on.

------
jey
I got kicked out halfway through my Sophomore year for being on Academic
Probation too long, and it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I wish
it had happened sooner.

I have some kind of allergy to pointless busy work and institutional bullshit.

Anyway, I don't understand the point of the question... :)

~~~
ardit33
ok, honestly unless you are already a millionare, (or on the path to be one),
I'd say you done a major disservice to yourself and I'd say you were not wise
enough.

College for me was lots of work (and b.s.) but lots of fun also. Work hard,
get good grades, party, have fun, screw girls... repeat. Eventually gets
tiring, but remember, you will be working for the rest of your life, why start
the pain earlier?

There are plenty of very successful, (and very rich) people that skiped, or
quit college, but you don't hear much about the hundreds of thousands that
quit college, and had much harder time on your life.

~~~
jey
I don't see work as pain, school is pain. So far I have had the luxury of
picking and choosing jobs so that I only take the interesting ones. Granted,
maybe tomorrow everyone without a degree will be ignored regardless of what
their actual qualifications are, but I'll take that chance.

I don't want to work for someone who places such an importance on having a
degree anyway. I want to work for someone who hires me for my ability to do
work, so I think demonstrating that ability to do work is more important than
getting some piece of paper.

A Bachelor's degree is just a certificate of minimal competence anyway. A
significant fraction of people with BS CS degrees can't even write simple
programs. There's plenty of other ways to demonstrate minimal competence than
to get an undergrad degree.

So, anyway -- why's it so important to have a degree? Everything they teach
(and much more!) is available in the form of dead trees at my local library. I
can party with my friends regardless of whether I'm in college or not, plus
now I can afford awesome beer. What else is left?

~~~
jey
Addendum: I'm especially interested in hearing arguments for why I should
finish my degree. I try not to be dogmatic about any views and am continually
open to new data/ideas to refine my thoughts, so if you know of some
compelling reasons, I'm all ears.

~~~
jimbokun
Maybe not fulfilling all of the requirements for a degree per se, but Phillip
Greenspun finds a university a great source of entertainment.

"Taking advantage of my location in Cambridge, I have sat in on some classes
at MIT in Atmospheric Physics, Biology, and Geology. I also teach a software
engineering lab course at MIT every three or four semesters (textbook). But
for me, the university has mostly been a source of entertainment; I have never
looked to it as a source of income."

<http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science> (Appendix E)

So the compelling reason might not be that getting a degree will impress other
people, but that learning is a fun and enriching experience. Yes, there are
dead trees in libraries, but lectures, being able to ask questions to someone
who is an expert in what you want to learn, and collaborating with peers who
also want to learn are difficult to duplicate with only dead trees.

------
brlewis
I got 4.2 on a 5-point scale at MIT. I graduated in 1990.

Know what's interesting? You're the first person to ask me that, as far as I
can recall.

------
auferstehung
Grades do not matter. Accomplishments matter. If you have no other
accomplishments, grades will be the default accomplishment that you will be
judged against for comparison. So really, you are in complete control of
whether or not grades will matter. Of course this means applying yourself.

Likewise, your future degree has an expiration date. I would estimate about a
year from walking. Your degree will start to smell if you have no
accomplishments to back it up. Each year past graduation, the education
section of your resume should be bumped farther down the page. Eventually, it
should become a matter of whether or not you have room to include your
education at all. Your education should become a trivia fact. A small talk
subject before discussing what you have done.

PS: I am of the opinion that anyone completing a four-year degree with a 4.0
grade point average did not get their money's worth out of college.

~~~
jimbokun
"PS: I am of the opinion that anyone completing a four-year degree with a 4.0
grade point average did not get their money's worth out of college."

I am reminded that Bill Gates would find ways to take graduate courses that
interested him that he did not have the prerequisites for and argue with the
professor from the first day of class.

Not the most efficient path to getting a high GPA, but likely a good way to
learn a lot in a short period of time.

------
kirse
I went to a state school with the mindset that:

1) It'd be cheaper

2) It's still a solid education that will get me a job

3) I would have time to party and work on my own projects, rather than be at
the whim of a professor's latest epic dull assignment

The result? 3.7 GPA and have run a successful entertainment blog, have two
Facebook apps with 550,000 users, and hopefully announcing my web startup in
the next month.

Also have a job locked in at a top engineering company, should I choose to
work for them.

Certainly not saying there weren't stressful times, just much less of them and
far more time to enjoy what you really like to do.

------
breck
I got pretty good grades but got really unlucky. In my 3 years at
Duke(graduated early with triple major ECE, CS, Econ) I got all A+'s and one
A. The A was in Mandarin 312 and it was because I got sick during finals week
in my study abroad program in Beijing. So even if you do get good grades you
might get sick like I did and it could totally ruin your transcript and making
finding a job harder.So don't worry too much about grades--sometimes no matter
how hard you try things beyond your control will decide the final outcome.
Even with my A I ended up fine and was still able to get a Rhodes and a
Fulbright.

And as long as you know how to manage your time you can get good grades and do
fun things. My favorite part of college was not getting good grades--the best
part was being student class president and winning the ACM-ICPC. I also
enjoyed having the time to start a company that ended up getting acquired by
Google. So make sure you measure your life, like you said, not by how good
your grades are(I would be miserable if that's the case) but by the whole
balance of your life.

~~~
falsestprophet
Really? If the guy behind Qcrunch.com and seemewin.com, "we scratch lottery
tickets live," is a Rhodes scholar, they need to give up.

~~~
breck
You're right. How can they ever top me? Better give up now and quit while
they're ahead.

------
ivankirigin
While doing my masters at CMU in robotics, the ideal grades, as proclaimed by
the professors, were straight B-.

It meant you were actually doing your important your, your research, while
still passing.

Research is what will get you into grad school. A big project is what could
spinoff into a company, or at least teach you how to build big/real systems.

------
jadams
Not very. Marks anywhere from 40% to 85%. I started when I was fifteen and
failed out in my fourth (last) year.

Went back part-time about 5 years later, and failed a compilers course after I
decided to forgo the group, write the compiler myself, but got sidetracked
leading bots in assault mode on Unreal Tournament.

I really learned how to study about 2 years ago. Sigh.

Spending too much time playing games was a major contributing factor. OTOH I
now work in game-development.

I occasionally think about going back so I can some day get a post-grad
degree, but don't relish being some profs biatch.

I have a university library-card, read theses and research papers, and
generally do whatever I damn well want, while getting paid and hatching
product ideas.

------
DanielBMarkham
First college? Systems Analysis. I dropped out after one year because it
seemed like total crap. I had a C average.

Second college? Business Administration. I dopped out after one year because I
was getting a divorce. I had a 4.0 average.

I felt awful about lacking a college degree -- until managing my first PhD. He
was an idiot. The second and third were worse. Really smart guys with an awful
attitude.

Ever since then -- I keep asking myself what the point would be to go back?
College was fun. I learned to play games by arbitrary rules some jerk set up.
I would much rather learn all the time than play games.

------
dfranke
I consistently got As in the most interesting classes: compilers, databases,
abstract algebra, independent study, senior project. My overall GPA was only
about a 3.4, though. And my GPA totally tanked in the final semester when I
started persuing Y Combinator.

------
connellybarnes
People who are programmers might not have as much respect for or interest in
college, because C.S. tends to be a little watered down as far as standards
go. If you want high standards, go into physics or math.

Probably confirming this general prejudice, I programmed a lot in high school,
and I never thought grades had anything to do with intelligence or ability or
willingness to work, because all the smart people I knew had bad grades. It
annoyed me when people with good grades got into good colleges for not doing
interesting things, so in undergrad I decided that I'd get perfect grades. I
did that, majoring in math and physics, and switched back to C.S. for grad
school. My adviser told me grades don't matter in grad school, so I've now
gone back to ignoring grades.

I'm in grad school at the moment. I'm sure I have a lot of learning to do, as
far as what different groups of people think of all this grading information.
I mostly just look at it as a proof that I'm willing to teach myself, learn,
and occasionally work, so it seems frustratingly tedious to me, as I already
know the answers to these questions. Since perhaps middle school, with the
exception of graduate school, I've disliked much of school because I don't
like being taught, as compared with being given enough freedom to teach myself
(gently guided exploration is my preference).

Grad school is fun if it's your cup of tea.

Despite having extremely limited information on the subject of how grades
change job prospects, I think people worry too much about grades. If you get
the perfect white collar job after getting perfect grades then chances are you
will still be unhappy unless it is a good fit for you. A college degree is the
access card to the academic and corporate systems, so it's an important
constraint, and nothing to casually dismiss or yawn at. And grades are part of
that. But rational, informed decisions can be made to not go to college, or to
not get good grades, depending on one's interests. For example, the corporate
side of the world doesn't interest me at all, and I have the nagging feeling
that in undergrad I really should've been exploring what I wanted to do with
my life more instead of spending four years trying to get good grades.

The bottom line is that I'm not convinced that careers and that ordering them
the way that everyone tells me to will necessarily give me happiness. When in
doubt, ignore everyone else and listen to oneself, but first maximize your
information by reading lots of good books on the subject of grades and
careers, and also be rational and don't overly discount the worth of your
future time; realize that grades are a part of the union card for corporate
America and the academic world.

------
utnick
One of my CS professors said something along the lines of A students generally
go forward and get masters and phds, B students go out and build the stuff
that changes the world

------
rms
I got a lot worse at college after I learned a D- was a passing grade in
Pitt's School of Engineering.

------
machine
As other people have mentioned, doing well in college is more about learning a
lot and doing research than getting good grades. With this in mind, I think
doing well in college can be important for a couple of reasons:

1) You should try to learn as much as you can.

2) Grad school. If you decide you want to go to grad school, it's important to
have good grades and more importantly research experience.

3) Employment. Grades / research experience may not matter for a startup, but
I think it does help with getting your foot in the door with big tech
companies like Microsoft, Google, etc.

Only 1) matters as far as start ups are concerned, but it's good to keep
options open. Your interests may change (I'm only 23, and my interests have
changed a few times already).

------
food79
I was pretty bad at college and high school. But I did get the highest grade
in the class in one class, it was where there was direct competition between
everyone else for the grades. So I thought, in law school every class is a
competition for grades. So I went. My grades were really good!

Do the grades matter? Not really, but it is always nice to go out on top. So
what I am saying is that I recommend, for you, to do the last year or the last
semester really well and get all A's. Then for the rest of your life you can
say that you finished school on top.

------
jadams
Er, why do you care?

Make sure you do lots of extra-curricular work that you enjoy, and that's
difficult. If your grades aren't great, you can show off projects to get jobs.
If you want to make your own job, grow it out of your projects.

I failed out of school, and I'm an inconsistent employee at best, but I only
know a couple of people who work harder than I do, and they're all business
owners.

~~~
ptn
I care because I was under a lot of pressure the other day.

I do work a lot on my own. I too know only of a handful of guys who are more
willing to learn than me.

------
Jaggu
Answer for this question is different based on location. If you are in US then
degree is not that important as there are many people in US at higher post -
based on knowledge rather than degree but if you are in country like India
then degree matters because you won't even get chance for interview without
good degree..

------
omouse
I'm not doing well in college at the moment. The assignments are just too
boring (Perl database-connected survey, ncurses/conio wrapper library in C &
C++, business analysis crap with UML diagrams and Rational Rose (yuck)).

I looked at the curriculum (<http://warp.senecac.on.ca/bsd/courses.aspx>) for
my program today and it looks like the majority of courses are business
oriented. One major project + an internship do not sound very appealing.

I'm not sure what else to do though :(

~~~
hello_moto
Go to real university

~~~
omouse
Yeah I may try to get into one, but I'm thinking that I should try and get a
real job and do my own stuff for a bit (~6 months). Maybe some part-time
university courses?

------
Goladus
A in music, all over the place in Csci. Grades depended largely on how much
attention I gave to the class, and how much miscellaneous administrative bull
I had to deal with

------
asmosoinio
What's the scale on the grades you people are giving? From F to A, 0 to 4, I
guess?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_North_Ameri...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_North_America)

I had an average of 4.3 (on a scale from 1 to 5). I worked somewhat hard on
the interesting courses and did quite well. I got my Masters degree "with
distinction", as I also got a 5 for my thesis.

~~~
ptn
Here in Peru it's from 0 to 20, I have 14.3 average.

------
flashgordon
Actually I had a pretty bland uni life :D I spent most of my times in the CS
labs learning things I was curious about but never had the common-sense to
find a cofounder to start something with. Point of the story? Do a startup
while in Uni. It is the best place to find co-founders! Plus you have very
minimal costs (especially staying with your folks!)

------
benmathes
3.4/4.0 at Brandeis university. I learned pretty early on that you take
courses that both sound interesting and are taught by professors you like. If
you find both then you enjoy doing the work as well as enjoy going to class.
Once those two are taken care of you needn't worry too much about grades as
they'll take care of themselves.

------
carpal
Georgia's HOPE scholarship requires that you keep a 3.0 GPA in order to
receive free tuition.

My final GPA was 3.1. It is not a coincidence.

------
zaidf
My freshman year sucked ass grade-wise. But I also had the most fun that year.

Sophomore year started off depressingly. Then my start-up took off and it was
lots of fun. Funnily my grades improved a great deal between freshman year and
sophomore year(even with the start-up).

That's how far I got before taking off. Hopefully I won't have to return
anytime soon.

------
nostrademons
I sucked. My overall average was a 3.0, but that was made up of a lot of As, a
lot of Cs, 2 Fs, and relatively few Bs. My terrible physics grades were
counterbalanced by excellent CS grades (I only got less than an A on one CS
course).

------
adrianwaj
I went to all lectures, all tutorials and did everything as expected. Big
deal.

------
mkull
3.5GPA

May sound cocky, but did not put forth a whole lot of effort in my classes. I
put in enough to get a B (or an A if the class was interesting or easy) but
90% of my time (and learning) was spent working on my own projects.

------
kobs
Currently in my 2nd year with a B average. Content. I'd rather spend time
working on projects than studying that much more.

------
henning
flunked out.

------
iamelgringo
3.8 GPA with 1 semester to go.

------
shayan
I had to stay in town but tried to go to the best university around. Studied
three subjects, computer sci, math and economics, so I can learn as much as I
can in terms of sciences and business ... it took me 5 years to finish it with
the jobs I had ... for the first two years my grades varied I had good ones
and bad ones (mostly Bs) ... but for the next three years I mostly got As
specially on courses that mattered the most to me.

I also did an internship at a biotech company in Germany, worked with SAP for
my university, got hired by one of my professors and helped him to write a
book on astronomy, did a project with another professor on Six Sigma, and
another project with a different professor on databases, worked at a gaming
company (mostly R&D) and did a few other projects on the side.

Thats mostly what I did during school ... but then graduated and decided to
start my own company, which I did, and learned maybe more than ever ... and am
now working on another project ....

so I am also not too clear about your question ... but what you want to do
after college is also important, meaning if you want to do masters then you
_must_ try to get good grades, if you want to get a job then it depends on
what kind of a job ...

but as a general rule I would say try to do your best ... if you don't do too
well at the beginning try to pick it up and do better later on, people will
notice that, they like to see you improve, specially during your senior years
... the better you do the more options you leave open for yourself.

I think undergrad mostly fills you up with the basics, so you can go and
specialize on whatever you like after. But the most important thing you can
take away from school is getting disciplined, and learning how to look for
information and learn more when you need to. Getting good grades also means
you have actually learned something from college. The worst is to go to
college and get bad grades and the excuse being "my courses are boring," or
something along those lines. Your marks might not be that important to
everyone, but what you did with your life within those years would matter a
lot to anyone that might be interested in you.

I don't mind when I hear people drop out and end up doing something, even if
they don't make it big. At least they realized they don't want to waste their
time with school and they have other ways of doing it.

Bottom line, having good grades _will never_ hurt you no matter what you want
to do. But if you don't have good grades then you must have other stuff to
make up for it, or to replace it and sometimes you need to give a valid reason
of why you don't have the grades.

Just remember that nothing is the final answer, and there is not one way that
you can do it. Get creative and come up with other ways that can prove
yourself.

------
downer
You guys already know that high school doesn't matter, right?

College doesn't matter, either. You will discover this eventually.

Sure, it might seem important if trying to impress an _employer_ right out of
school, but that's still like waiting to be rewarded by Daddy -- much like the
Christian religion, in which Celestial Dad is going to punish or reward you
after you're _dead_ \-- there is no self-determination, only supplication.
Everything depends on _pleasing_ , or obeying, some other more powerful
entity.

Take off the shackles and decide for yourself. Grades make zero difference for
start-ups -- it's like Captain Jack Sparrow said, "The only rules that really
matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do."

~~~
mgummelt
This will probably get down modded for potentially inciting a flame-war, but I
feel some duty to stomp out ignorance. Saying there is no self-determination
in Christianity is as inaccurate as saying there is no self-determination in
education. Both institutions have consequences for your actions instilled by
higher authority, but that in no way implies that every action is a result of
that incentive.

Are you saying the only incentive for students to spend hundreds of hours in
the research lab is just to get a letter of recommendation from the professor
and land a job? As a student, I find that ridiculous. Are you saying the only
incentive for Catholics to pray the rosary is to rack up points in the
afterlife? As a Catholic, I find that objectionable.

However, I'm not even sure the context of your statement that High School and
College don't "matter". Matter for what?

Landing a job? I doubt you meant this, but that's certainly not true. For an
education? You could possibly make an argument for this, however I would still
disagree simply because of the amount of resources available in a school. Do
they serve no purpose at all? High School and College are fun, so that can't
be true.

It seems the only case where school potentially doesn't "matter" is in the
context of start-ups. But what happens when all your startups have failed and
you're 40?

~~~
rms
>Are you saying the only incentive for students to spend hundreds of hours in
the research lab is just to get a letter of recommendation from the professor
and land a job? As a student, I find that ridiculous. Are you saying the only
incentive for Catholics to pray the rosary is to rack up points in the
afterlife? As a Catholic, I find that objectionable.

In this context, the reason to pray the rosary or spend a lot of time learning
in college is for self-fulfillment. If you find it fulfilling, great. If not,
your time is probably better spent doing something else, if the afterlife
points or letter of recommendation don't matter to you.

------
amichail
If you have won a medal in the math or computer Olympiads in high school, then
that would probably be more important than anything you do later as an
undergrad in terms of grades.

~~~
cperciva
After you finish an undergraduate degree, nobody wants to hear about how you
were an exceptional high school student.

And honestly, if you won a medal in the IMO and don't have anything to show
for your undergraduate years aside from a high GPA, there's something wrong
with you.

~~~
nostrademons
Though it works that way for the rest of your life too - if you sucked at your
last job, nobody wants to hear about how you were exceptional in college. And
conversely, if you last worked on an exceptional project, nobody cares if you
dropped out of high school.

