

Tesla is unable to sell its vehicles directly to the public in Texas - dylangs1030
http://www.teslamotors.com/advocacy_texas

======
grecy
Ahh, The American Way (TM)

When a competitor offers a better product that you, make what they are doing
illegal rather than competing with them.

Stopping innovation in America since the 70s.

~~~
throwaway_yy2Di
Is "since the 70's" some sort of ironic joke? US industries were extremely and
overtly anti-competitive _up until_ the deregulation of the 1970's. If
competition is restricted now, it was far worse in the past.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Carrier_Act_of_1980](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Carrier_Act_of_1980)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act)

~~~
jtoeman
like Airbnb getting sued in New York?

or Uber/Lyft/etc having to go through extortionary-like procedures in
California?

...

~~~
throwaway_yy2Di
I'm not arguing that US is universally free-market today, rather that it was
_less_ free-market 50 years ago.

~~~
jtoeman
i don't really agree. other than some deregulation (power, cable, etc), for
the most part i'd say the government today is more intertwined with
lobbyists/big corporations' interests at heart than they used to be...

~~~
hearty778
Car franchise laws and taxi medallions didn't exist in the 70s?

------
guelo
Does any other company get so many straight press releases consistently voted
up on HN?

BTW this is old, the referenced bills did not pass.

~~~
dylangs1030
It's shocking how quickly this got to the top of the front page. People
really, _really_ like Tesla :)

~~~
edouard1234567
It doesn't shock me ...

1 - A charismatic "Rocket scientist" as a founder (Arguably the most inspiring
founder since Steve Jobs). Check!

2 - A disruptive idea in a industry that hasn't been disrupted since the rise
of Japanese cars (A long long time ago). Check!

3 - Wining against all odds (a year ago very few people were betting on
Tesla). Check!

4 - A world changing idea. Check!

5 - A David and Goliath story. Check!

6 - A sexy machine and a delightful product. Check!

~~~
MichaelApproved
There is no "David" in this story. There is a new company but being new
doesn't make you David. The power behind Tesla is not small by any means.

~~~
ArchD
For Goliath, what about the entities that allegedly kill GM's EV1 electric car
and want people to keep depending on fossil fuel?
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car)

------
nicklovescode
"Prior to the filing deadline, Tesla Motors reached out to Sen. Craig Estes
(R-Wichita Falls) and Rep. Eddie Rodriguez (D-Austin) who agreed to file bills
on our behalf. These bills would permit U.S.-based manufacturers of 100%
electric- or battery-powered vehicles to sell directly to Texas consumers."

A silly band-aid to ridiculous legislation.

~~~
nknighthb
The band-aid is easier to pass.

~~~
Florin_Andrei
That somehow sounds even worse.

~~~
AsymetricCom
However, not a concept new to dog owners.

------
cobrausn
So, this might seem a silly question (I find the ban ludicrous but this is
worth asking).

Why not just allow certain dealers, approved by Musk himself for all that
matters, to become 'authorized Tesla dealers'? Why does Tesla insist on
direct-to-consumer sales, even to the point of not being able to do so in
large marketplaces?

~~~
skaevola
Musk clearly wants Tesla to sell all of their products themselves ala Apple.
His stated reason was that car dealer's cannot properly advertise the benefits
of electric cars without undermining their gasoline car business and so he
doesn't trust them to properly sell the car.

~~~
Shivetya
That does not explain away others who would relish the idea of setting up an
electric only dealership. He is using an pretty damn thin excuse to not allow
others to sell the cars. Sorry, but there are many other like minded
individuals who would very much sell the cars the way he wants, they may even
improve on the methods.

Local dealers for electrics would provide the benefit of tighter integration
with supporting businesses, from those who install the requisite plugs at
homes, to marketing the need of stations to employers so that their employees
can charge up at work. There are many many benefits to having local, private
dealers.

~~~
oh_sigh
> There are many many benefits to having local, private dealers.

Oh, so is that why they are mandatory through legislation? Usually if
something has "many many benefits", the behavior will spontaneously arise and
not need to be government mandated

~~~
sp332
I thought the regulation was to deter monopolization from manufacturers, not
to prop up the dealership business.

------
mercuryrising
Someone in California should figure this out - I checked quick on CA's DMV
website but couldn't find an email to ask someone.

If you buy a car in another state, California will charge you the difference
in sales tax to bring it up to California's tax rate, netting them more tax
revenue. What happens if you bring in a car that you paid a higher tax rate
on? Would they refund you the difference? Would you get double taxed
purchasing a vehicle from California and bringing it to Texas?

Can someone explain what's going on in the service paragraph? The customer
can't talk to the repair place? They can't discuss the issues the car has,
they need to relay all the information through Tesla motors? What the heck?

~~~
jleader
I am far from a tax expert, but my impression was that excess sales tax paid
in another state can be claimed on your California state income tax return?

It sounds like the customer can talk to the repair place, it's just that the
repair place can't contact the customer, or even advertise themselves as a
Tesla repair place.

------
tomkarlo
I thought Texas was all about reducing regulations and welcoming new
businesses.

~~~
VladRussian2
q: How to tell when politician is lying?

a: His lips are moving.

Btw, "Financier" is a fascinating read and should be just used a main textbook
for "Civics" class in schools on how the system works. I like this double-
whammy :

"... Grund had been about, years before, purchasing through one or two brokers
large amounts of the various kinds of Texas debt certificates and bonds. The
Republic of Texas, in its struggle for independence from Mexico, had issued
bonds and certificates in great variety, amounting in value to ten or fifteen
million dollars. Later, in connection with the scheme to make Texas a State of
the Union, a bill was passed providing a contribution on the part of the
United States of five million dollars, to be applied to the extinguishment of
this old debt. Grund knew of this, and also of the fact that some of this
debt, owing to the peculiar conditions of issue, was to be paid in full, while
other portions were to be scaled down, and there was to be a false or pre-
arranged failure to pass the bill at one session in order to frighten off the
outsiders who might have heard and begun to buy the old certificates for
profit. ..."

------
wmf
This page refers to April 9th (2013?) in the future tense, so it's probably
pretty old news.

~~~
jleader
According to
[http://openstates.org/tx/bills/83/HB3351/](http://openstates.org/tx/bills/83/HB3351/)
and
[http://openstates.org/tx/bills/83/SB1659/](http://openstates.org/tx/bills/83/SB1659/),
the bills haven't progressed any further since then, I don't know if that
means they're dead, or if that's just how slowly the Texas legislature
proceeds.

~~~
skaevola
The Texas legislature meets for 140 days every odd year. The bill was not
passed in this session (which is to say it failed). It will likely be
reintroduced in 2015 when the Texas Legislature meets again.

------
stcredzero
Could someone still buy some Teslas, leave them in the lot, then sell them on
Craigslist?

~~~
jccooper
Sure. The warranty's even transferable.

In fact, last I looked used Model S cars were going for more than retail.
Scarcity, I guess.

But it's not like you can't get a Tesla in Texas, just that they can't sell it
to you.

------
umsm
Is it correct to assume a Texas resident may order one from another dealer and
drive it home? Can they just drive it home and legally have it registered in
Texas?

~~~
jeady
Yeah, you basically just order it online and there's no problem. There are a
couple of showrooms in Austin and from what I've heard, although you can't
actually purchase it from the Tesla showroom, you are welcome to use their
kiosks to order one via the internet.

------
fsckin
There's gotta be a simple, legal workaround to require franchising. Here's how
I could see it happening:

1\. Create Company X.

2\. Sell exclusive USA franchising rights to Company X.

3\. Acquire Company X, rename the new subsidiary as 'Tesla Franchising'.

4\. ???

5\. Profit

Edit: Thanks for the unwarranted down vote without a comment... I didn't know
that big oil is trolling HN now.

From the article, they're already doing this with their service departments:

Customers in need of warranty service must call the Tesla Service to speak to
someone at Tesla Motors in California. Based on their over-the-phone
explanation, a Tesla Service employee determines whether repair work is
needed/warranted. If so, the customer is sent to have the work _sub-contracted
by a local subsidiary, Tesla Motors TX_. The local repair centers – currently
in Austin and Houston – cannot advertise that they do warranty repairs nor can
they discuss any additional repair needs or concerns with the customer. _Tesla
Motors TX then bills Texas Motors, Inc._ for the work. If customers have
additional warranty concerns, Tesla Motors TX cannot discuss them with the
customer – the customer would need to call Tesla Motors, Inc. back and go
through the process again.

------
fnordfnordfnord
Elon, just install a bunch[1] of superchargers on I-10.

[1] And I _do_ mean a bunch.

EDIT: I just noticed. This is an old press release. The lege' is out of
session. Be sure and pester representatives if another special session is
called.

------
chris_mahan
It's ok. Instead, it will sell its cars in China.

------
jokoon
some people want to kill the electric car

~~~
Aqueous
don't think it's about being against the electric car, but against a world
where car dealerships are unnecessary. car dealerships will eventually go the
way of the book store. they don't want a world in which they aren't the very
profitable middle men between the consumer and the manufacturer. tesla's
direct consumer sales threatens their existence, so they want nothing to do
with it.

~~~
jokoon
So basically the law mandates that salesmen are not out of work. Brilliant.

------
YooLi
_" Texas Bans the Sale of Tesla Vehicles"_

Title is misleading. Texas didn't ban the sale of Teslas but rather Teslas are
incapable of being sold due to legislation that was added back in 2003. Still
a problem, but it should at least be presented correctly.

~~~
dylangs1030
Sorry, that's my bad. I read it elsewhere[1], went to Tesla's site for
official news, and couldn't find anything other than Advocacy. I'll try to
change it. I put up the original title in the spirit of the guidelines,
because "Advocacy: Texas" doesn't by itself mean anything in particular. And I
haven't seen this story on Hacker News.

[1]: [http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/nightline-fix-abc-news/why-
texas...](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/nightline-fix-abc-news/why-texas-bans-
sale-tesla-cars-140842349.html)

~~~
skaevola
You can buy a Tesla in Texas. You have to order it online and (as the page
says) it will be delivered by a 3rd party. You can see plenty of them in
Austin. Tesla also maintains two "showrooms", one in Austin and one in Houston
where you can see the car, but cannot test drive it or discuss pricing.

Tesla is not allowed to run its own dealerships in Texas, because the auto
dealer's union has laws which prevent car manufacturers from running their own
dealerships.

~~~
muzz
By "union" you mean the lobbyists of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association
right?

I've never heard of lobbying arms being referred to as "unions"

~~~
skaevola
Er yes, misspoke.

Although a union is for all intents and purpose a lobbying arm...

------
hearty778
Why single out Texas? The vast majority of states are the same way, including
Tesla's home state.

