
Tesla included in J.D. Power survey for the first time, and it’s bad - MBCook
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/06/teslas-are-the-most-unreliable-new-cars-in-the-us-survey-finds/
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ihumanable
I find it interesting that in the PP100 (Problem Per 100 Cars sold) no one is
doing better than 136, so on average every new car has a problem.

Curious how J.D. Power is defining "a problem" the article provides this
insight

"It now asks 223 questions, split into nine categories: including
infotainment, features, controls and displays, exterior, interior, powertrain,
seats, driving experience, climate, and (new for 2020) driving assistance. Ars
readers may not be surprised to discover that the most troublesome of these
categories was infotainment, which accounted for almost a quarter of all
problems. Top complaints here were voice recognition, Android Auto and Apple
CarPlay connectivity, touchscreens, onboard navigation, and Bluetooth issues."

I guess I would want to get the car with the least number of problems, but
without additional clarification into their methodology, I don't know how to
best interpret these numbers.

I mean if someone is having trouble pairing their off-brand Wish Bluetooth
headset to their car and considers that a problem, I would hope they weight it
less severely than say, the brakes failing.

I tried to find out more about their methodology but found this rather scant
page [https://www.jdpower.com/ratings-
methodology](https://www.jdpower.com/ratings-methodology)

~~~
aeternum
Don't trust any survey for which you can't read the questions.

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canada_dry
The rankings just make no sense to me - even though I would expect Tesla rank
on lower end.

My suspicion is that either the top American companies have figured out how to
game the survey or JD Power is using a flawed method.

Example how on earth has Dodge, Chevy and Mitsubishi (in the top 10) beat
companies long known for excellent quality? i.e. Lexus, Acura, Porsche.

Finally, this one surely can't be true: BMW has better initial quality than
Honda, Toyota and Porsche?!? Everyone I know who has bought a BMW in the last
few years has had numerous issues out of the gate!

p.s. yes, I realize this my anecdotal opinion. But, I'd like to see other
corroborating data that backs up JDP.

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winrid
Initial quality consists of things like does the infotainment system work
well...

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LandR
The article says:

"According to J.D. Power's survey, Tesla's initial quality score is 250 PP100,
a feat which makes even Audi and Land Rover seem reliable by comparison."

Yet, Audi has 225 problems per 100 cars and land rover 228 problems per 100
cars. If I'm understanding it correctly, doesn't seem like a huge difference.
Especially when AUdi and Land Rover are somewhat luxury brands themselves.
With VOlvo at 210.

Considering they are still somewhat a relatively new car company, certainly at
this scale, this seems OK to me.

I reckon buyers probably go in knowing they are somewhat of a guinea pig at
this stage.

~~~
sunstone
Not only that but most of the brands that I would be interested in are almost
all below the average, in fact the only brands two in top group I would
consider are Lexus and Genesis. And it's not like Tesla is way out of the ball
park either, a one million mile Tesla with three superficial flaws, almost no
maintenance, very low depreciation and no gas costs beats the other cars here
any day.

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doggydogs94
Let’s see, Dodge and Kia and Chevy on top with Honda and Toyota in the bottom
half. I am instantly suspicious.

~~~
ajhurliman
It looks like they're looking at initial "problems" which are pretty broadly
defined. Those can be complete failure to drive, to what they perceive to be a
confusing interface with no weighting to them[0]. It also looks at a snapshot
in time (when the car is manufactured) rather than the reliability of the car
in the future.

At first glance it seems like this is a terrible way of evaluating cars, but
my suspicious side hypothesizes that this opacity in their evaluation is a
feature not a bug which allows them to accept payment in exchange for
favorable reviews.

[0][https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-
rep...](https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/why-consumer-reports-and-
j-d-power-are-so-
different/#:~:text=J.D.%20Power%20relies%20on%20consumer,J.D.%20Powers%20surveys%20are%20biased)!

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nelaboras
They ask questions by feature, so I assume Kia fares well just because they
have usually far less features in their cars? No surprise to see Tesla low,
but others (Porsche, Toyota) low is really surprising.

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popped
I drive and maintain older mercs, and don't really give a shit about problems
in the first 90 days, for me it's number of problems at 20 years. These
surveys don't reveal anything about that.

I feel for the hard core automotive engineers who are forced to allow the
monstrosity that is Bluetooth into their works of art.

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exabrial
Zebra corner hasn't covered Tesla's yet, they need to in his rants about jd
power and GM

~~~
mzakharo1
Here is our model Y. What price range would you put this car in? - Would not
pay a dime over 15.5.

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nelaboras
They ask questions by feature, so I assume Kia fares well just because they
have usually far less features in their cars? No surprise to see Tesla low,
but others (Porsche, Toyota) low is really surprising

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ngcc_hk
Toyota is right down. Not sure why?

