
Ford employees ask the company to stop making police cars - Alupis
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/8/21317894/ford-employees-black-police-vehicles-law-enforcement-george-floyd
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ogre_codes
It's a form of protest. This is how protests work, a company doesn't do
something you don't like, you boycott them. Your company/ organization does
something you don't like, you raise the issue with management; sometimes you
call in sick or quit.

This isn't any different from police having a "Blue Flu" or any other protest.
People who are members of a company/ organization that want to influence the
company do it in lots of ways.

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mixmastamyk
Surely the solution is to prosecute police brutality? Not imply vehicles have
anything to do with the problem.

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dfxm12
If you feel prosecuting police brutality doesn't work, you have to work other
angles (maybe many angles at once), and while Ford employees have no power
within the legal system, this is an angle where Ford employees do at least
have a voice.

They aren't implying vehicles have something to do with the problem.

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brink
It's not a well thought out protest. Do the Ford employees expect the cops to
jog to their house when someone has broken in?

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PCI-eX16
If Ford stops making _custom police vehicles and products_ , it will not
prevent current police fleets from rolling nor will it prevent police from
buying regular production vehicles.

If that's your concern, consider it allayed.

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Alupis
It's not like Police nation-wide are required to purchase Ford vehicles.

It's a giant cash cow for Ford. This will only hurt Ford.

Police already have vehicles... and they can source new vehicles from any
other willing company... even if it was a foreign company like Toyota.

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sjtindell
I think the point would be more in the statement it makes, not really blocking
the police from getting vehicles.

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mikece
And Motorolla employees are asking their employer to stop selling radios to
the police? And Glock employees to stop selling guns to the police?

Ford is no more liable for actions of bad cops than Volkswagen, BMW, or
Mercedes were for the actions of the nazis.

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GhostVII
I disagree. They create cars designed to help police do their jobs, police
aren't just buying the same cars available to the general public. So if the
cars they create for the police are used to oppress people, I think they do
have some liability.

To be clear I don't think that they should stop selling cars to the police,
pretty much everyone agrees the police are necessary, so I think it is also
necessary to have companies sell cars to them. But if you work with an
oppressive organization to create tools to help them do their jobs, you are
partially responsible for what they do with those tools.

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azinman2
“So if the cars they create for the police are used to oppress people”

It’s not the cars that are the problem — there’s no modification that somehow
senses POC and then runs over them, for example. Do you also stop selling them
clothes because the uniforms are designed for cops as well?

This isn’t something where you can say this is universally bad. They’re a
fundamental part of society - there to enforce laws. And if you agree that
police are necessary, then they need to get around somehow.

I can appreciate how these employees feel like this is a way they can create
change. They work for Ford, after all. But it’s a classic “when you have a
hammer” situation. The problem is way more complex and nuanced. This only
works against you because it makes your arguments look silly to those you want
to convince to care.

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GhostVII
I agree that police are fundamental in the US so it is ok to make cars for
them, I made the exact same argument you did. What I disagree with is the
argument that you are not responsible for how the tools you produce are used.

If you are creating a legitimate product and making it available to everyone,
I don't think you should be generally held responsible for how it is used (ex.
guns, civilian vehicles). But that is not what Ford is doing - they are
working with law enforcement to create vehicles suited to their needs, they
are specifically working to make it easier for police to do their jobs. I
think that gives them some responsibility, in the same way that I would feel
like a company making military vehicles for Saudi Arabia has some
responsibility for how they are used.

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hirundo
How does this discomfit the police in any way? When they go to add to their
fleet and Ford says no thanks, they just buy another brand. Ford doesn't offer
features or prices such that this would be a problem.

And meanwhile, what does this do to Ford sales outside of law enforcement, as
in the red states ... where all of those pickup trucks are sold, and where
police are far more popular?

So if they get what they ask they get a smaller more fragile employer with a
decreasing workforce and fewer funds for raises, in return for a symbolic
gesture.

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nitrogen
_Ford doesn 't offer features or prices such that this would be a problem._

I was under the impression that police variants of cars are heavily modified
for structural and performance reasons, at least in the US. e.g. someone once
gave me a ride in an auctioned used Interceptor and demonstrated the
switchable performance and traction modes that were unique to that version.

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hirundo
There are no barriers to their competitors offering those same features. And
even if every domestic car maker joins the reverse boycott, foreign makers
would be delighted to pick up the business, and the police may well get
superior cars.

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jimbob123
This is a massive yikes, if you don't like the company you work for. Go to
another company. The police aren't universally bad and hysteria like this
distracts from actual issues.

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ipsum2
I think Toyota, Hyundai, Honda are happy to build cars for police if Ford
doesn't want to.

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tibbydudeza
They now use Ford Explorer SUV's since the California Highway Patrol requires
a payload ability of 1700 pounds (4 officers plus gear) and it must be RWD or
AWD ... possibly a Toyota Landcruiser (too $$$) or Honda Pilot (4WD ???).

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RickJWagner
The whole protest-the-cops thing is baffling to me.

Prosecute bad cops, sure. Throw the book at them. Their time in prison is sure
to be horrible.

But run-of-the-mill, protecting-your-neighborhood cops? They are the good guys
and gals. Without question. CHOP and Atlanta have shown us how self-policing
pans out.

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GaryNumanVevo
The entire point of the protest is to express the frustration with lack of
prosecution of “bad police”. Countless times, bad police get a slap on the
wrist and put back on the force. It’s a system which closes rank whenever any
misdeed or crime is committed within the force.

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RickJWagner
So cancel police forces?

It's proven to not work. CHOP had murders just a few days later.

Everybody agrees bad cops should be prosecuted. A wild over-reaction that
opposes the huge majority of good cops is a wrong move.

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gist
In typical fashion the press takes something that a few people are doing and
makes like it's a movement or represented of most of the people. Focus on 1000
people protesting in (say) NYC vs. 18 million who aren't.

Separately - Why stop here why not ostracize anybody who works for any company
that has ever had any relationship past or present to anything bad in the
world. Point is where is the line drawn? This is all quite ridiculous.

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mu_sub_naught
Didn't a Swedish police detachment buy a fleet of Tesla squad cars within the
past 720 days?

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SecurityMinded
Time to buy GM and Chrysler stocks... Stupidity knows no bounds obviously.

