
Five startups from Norway - punnerud
https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/20/norwegian-startup-scene/
======
Illniyar
From the article it seems more like "go somewhat bigger but still tiny" then
"go huge".

Government aid programs have failed to generate startup scene basically
everywhere they were used.

I think buulding a real startup scene is a long process, starting with a few
companies that breakout, a good culture and the willingness of private capital
to invest. It is layers and layers that build upon eachother until a critical
mass is reached.

~~~
audunw
Didn't Silicon Valley grow out of a collection of companies doing defense
contracts and research grants?

Regardless, you're right that it does take a lot of time. For Silicon Valley
it took multiple decades.

But it does seem to me that the nordic startup communities are growing very
rapidly. There's cause to be optimistic. For Norway one of the problems is
that the vast majority of new investment is still in oil and gas. And I
suspect that community of engineers and investors are more likely to grow into
a community centered around subsea and other marine activities even after oil
becomes unprofitable.

What nobody has mentioned yet is that Norway has a healthy semiconductor and
electronics design industry. There are some exiting startups there that people
often forget about.

~~~
collyw
One thing I always wonder is why startup cities always seem to be so bloody
expensive. SF is the classic case looking at Europe, London is probably the
biggest center, and the wages / costs there are close to twice of many parts
of the UK. Norway ain't cheap either. I suppose Berlin is relatively cheap and
has a big startup scene.

All those costs must make it far more expensive to build something.

~~~
sotojuan
Startups go where most people want to live (to get talent) and where the most
investors live. Those usually are big urban centers that are increasingly
expensive because in the past two or three decades people decided they want to
live in cities again.

~~~
collyw
Not sure everyone that lives in places like London wants to be there, but its
where the well paid jobs are. I would be quite happy in the mountains, but
there aren't any tech related jobs there..

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rdtsc
As a rule every time a piece comes in the news about some place being "the
next startup scene", it usually doesn't work out that way. It is usually
driven by PR due to some tax advantage being put into law or local
municipality providing grants or something like that.

~~~
kmfrk
I remember this with Barcelona (or somewhere in Spain) which was building some
kind of Silicon Valley hub that was supposed to be the startup capital of
Europe.

~~~
msvan
It's a shame that Barcelona isn't the startup capital of Europe. Amazing
weather, beautiful streets, close to other major European cities, lots of
great food. SV will always win on weather against other cities.

------
bhouston
Toronto last week -- so a new plce featured each week:
[https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/12/toronto-is-poised-to-
becom...](https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/12/toronto-is-poised-to-become-the-
next-great-producer-of-tech-startups/)

------
doktrin
Speaking as a Norwegian living abroad, I feel like one of the most important
barriers (more important even than capital) to domestic startup success is a
failure-averse culture. We have a ways to go before we're on par with the US
in this regard.

~~~
xiaoma
Import Icelanders?

~~~
doktrin
I know this is a tongue in cheek remark, but it's not about the individuals -
it's about how society at large (and importantly, potential investors) views
past business failure.

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legulere
Why should people move to Norway? Software developers don't really earn more
than elsewhere in Europe while the cost of living is drastically higher.

~~~
NDizzle
Forget Norway. Kenya!!!

[http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya](http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/kenya)

~~~
J_Darnley
Ha. A real blast from the past.

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aavotins
Norway has one of the highest taxes in the world. Combined with labor laws
that are somewhat biased in favour of the employee.

Wouldn't it be hard to create a scene like that in a socially developed
country. Large wages would mean ridiculous taxes, so it would be very
expensive to attract talent and workforce, based on wages alone(think Bay Area
in the US). What about iterating quickly, which involves hiring and firing
people quickly as well? If I'm not mistaken, in the US you can fire people on
the spot, but that's not the case in Europe and Norway. You have strict labor
laws, notice periods, the whole shebang. Won't that be an extra burden for
startups?

edit: spelling

~~~
vidarh
Norway's taxes on personal income are just marginally above the OECD average
[1], which places it somewhat above the US, but not particularly high for a
developed country. The idea that Norway is particular high tax tends to come
from the marginal tax rate, which indeed is higher than the US, but the
threshold is also high.

Norwegian corporate taxes are low, at 25% corporate income tax [2], well below
the OECD average, while US corporate taxes are one of the highest in the world
and by far the highest of any OECD country [2] [3].

> What about iterating quickly, which involves hiring and firing people
> quickly as well?

Then hire people on contracts. Nothing in Norwegian law prevents you from
hiring and firing at will as long as you don't make people think you're hiring
for a position that is meant to last.

[1] [http://taxfoundation.org/article/comparison-tax-burden-
labor...](http://taxfoundation.org/article/comparison-tax-burden-labor-oecd)

[2]
[http://stats.oecd.org//Index.aspx?QueryId=58204](http://stats.oecd.org//Index.aspx?QueryId=58204)

[2] [http://taxfoundation.org/blog/us-has-highest-corporate-
incom...](http://taxfoundation.org/blog/us-has-highest-corporate-income-tax-
rate-oecd)

~~~
alephnil
There is no problem firing people in Norway as long as you have a real need to
reduce the workforce, or even reduce the headcount in one profession and at
the same point increase in another (like in restructuring). This is easier in
Norway than many other European countries, especially in Southern Europe.

What you can't do is to fire someone because you don't like them or fire
someone while you at the same time is hiring for positions the individuals you
are firing are qualified for.

While what you say about contractors are only partially right. If the
contractors are hired as individuals, they can legally claim a permanent
position after working there for three years. If they on the other hand are
engaged through a consulting company or similar, that will not be the case,
since then the contract is between two companies. If the consulting agency
does not have other contracts available, they can downsize.

~~~
vidarh
I'm norwegian, and have run companies (and done consulting) in Norway, so yes,
I'm familiar with the limitations, which is why most contractors are hired
through companies - whether personal AS's or an agency. When I was working
that way I don't think the idea of hiring someone on a contract basis
personally was something anyone ever brought up, exactly for this reason.

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jacquesm
Alternative title: The situation is improving, 5 start-ups from Norway

~~~
dang
We were going to go with "The Norwegian Startup Scene", helpfully provided by
the URL slug. (Those often contain a more neutral title, as if they feel
guilty for the clickbait excesses of the headline writer). But your phrasing
is more concrete, so let's try that.

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PhillyPhuture
TechCrunch has become the in-flight magazine of technology. How many of these
marketing pieces are meaningful for anyone involved in the technology
community? Moving on...

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diyseguy
What will they call it? Silicon Fjord? Silicium Dal?

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flaviuspopan
Anybody have some insight on what it usually takes to qualify for landing a
startup gig in places like Norway/Amsterdam? (With regards to language
requirements/work permits/referrals/etc.) With each passing day I find myself
more interested in European startup scenes.

~~~
lagadu
If you have an EU nationality the paperwork (getting a SS number, a tax card,
registered residence) will take maybe 3 hours of work once you have a signed
contract. I've been through it and it's surprisingly agile.

I don't know about non-EU nationals, though I know people from the US and
Canada who managed to get an EU nationality because of their grandparents and
simply used that to avoid worrying about visas and all. That said, the
companies will be very helpful if you need assistance with paperwork so you
should be fine when it comes to it, though I doubt you'll need the help.

About the language, English will be fine for nearly any tech company.

That said, I'd also check out Berlin and Copenhagen; big startup scenes there.

Never worked in The Netherlands so I can't speak for Amsterdam, sorry.

~~~
flaviuspopan
I truly appreciate the guidance, thank you. I'm originally from Romania and
speak English, Romanian, Spanish, and some French. Multiple people have been
mentioning Germany as an alternative so I might look into that more as I have
family there.

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lagadu
As someone from the industry living in the north, I get the impression that
the biggest obstacle to this is the seemingly much larger startup scene just
~500km away in Copenhagen. It's likely my experience is biased in some way but
I seem to have a lot more contacts and startup job offers from companies based
in Copenhagen than anywhere else around here, and I have lived in both places
in the past 3 years. I get the definite impression that its proximity is
pulling a lot of resources away from mostly Oslo.

~~~
jkot
> _that its proximity is pulling a lot of resources away from mostly Oslo_

I can confirm that, some companies I interviewed with in Sweden had Norwegian
roots/owners. Two reasons: Sweden is cheaper and is part of EU.

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reitanqild
Work in a startup around here. Will try to be back to this thread a couple of
times tonight if anyone has general questions. (it's 17:24 around here now.)

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danielskogly
Cool to see some focus on the Norwegian startup scene !

We just delivered a new site for Oslo Innovation Week, and are currently
working on the new Staaker website, who is mentioned in the article.

I'd say Flare ([http://iamflare.com](http://iamflare.com)) and Unacast
([http://unacast.com](http://unacast.com)) is worth keeping an eye on as well.

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lervag
> Leveraging the luxury of having a small startup scene — necessarily so, the
> whole country only has a population of 7m

Not quite: The population is closer to 5,215,000 [0].

[0]:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Norway)

------
maaaats
> _(...)and seeing the government working with the startup scene (...) is
> refreshing_

I've always felt jealous on the US startup culture, where you get investments.
In Norway, I feel it's more like you apply and get small grants. But looking
at this article things have gotten better.

What concerns me the most about our startup scene, is the scale. A successful
startup in Norway can only reach 5 million people before it has to be modified
to fit a new country with different language, regulations and customs. In the
US, you can reach tens of millions, and when the app has grown big enough us
Norwegian will accommodate and get used to the app, not the other way around.

~~~
kuschku
> What concerns me the most about our startup scene, is the scale. A
> successful startup in Norway can only reach 5 million people before it has
> to be modified to fit a new country with different language, regulations and
> customs. In the US, you can reach tens of millions, and when the app has
> grown big enough us Norwegian will accommodate and get used to the app, not
> the other way around.

And that’s one of the biggest advantages the EU is supposed to bring, but
which several countries are still blocking. You can read over 200 million
people in the EU just with an English product, and if the single market was
done better, it’d be very competitive with the US.

Instead, we’re seeing Britain leaving, and potentially the EU breaking apart
completely.

~~~
toyg
_> potentially the EU breaking apart completely._

You can see it like that, or you can see it the other way around. This is
pretty much make-or-break, put-up-or-shut-up time for EU integration. The
Lisbon treaty is finally biting. You can't be "mildly pro-EU" or see it as
"simply a trade union" anymore; you either go all-in with fiscal and
legislative harmonization, or you go home. Italy and Greece were the first to
go all-in; Britain might be the first to go home. The next decade is a tipping
point one way or another, and it might actually be the beginning of the "real"
federal EU a lot of people have been asking for 40 years.

~~~
lettergram
Greece and Italy didn't have much of a choice... they essentially were
collapsing and lost a portion of their sovereignty to stay somewhat afloat.

~~~
T-A
Italy is one of the founding members of the EU, so I am a little puzzled by
this statement.

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wangchow
Honestly, the "startup scene" for tech companies is everywhere. You can start
a company anywhere so geography isn't wholly relevant.

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lsseckman
"Go huge" for some reason sounds like incorrect grammar. Is it correct?

~~~
cariaso
it's not proper english, but it is common real world vernacular.

'go big, or go home' being a very common phrase.

[https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=go%20big%20o...](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=go%20big%20or%20go%20home)

