
Where's the love? Very critical slashdot comments on PG and YC newsweek article: "... what an arrogant twat." - greendestiny
http://slashdot.org/articles/07/05/13/1724247.shtml
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nickb
That comment is by Ian Clarke, a founder of a bunch of failed startups.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Clarke_%28computer_scientist%29>

He's just jealous/jadded/overly-arrogant.

Safely ignore him :)

~~~
BitGeek
I think this comment shows everything that is asinine and vapid about the YC
"community".

Ian Clarke invented freenet... the most successful peer-to-peer privacy
network.

And whether his businesses have been successful or not (I don't know, but I
know you don't) he's been more successful than the members of this community.
He has far more users than reddit, for instance.

Its amazing that every disagreement or criticism of YC is met with the "you're
a failure" or "you're jealous" or "you're bitter" response. __

Never a response on the point.

This is what has me increasingly believing that YC is a cult of personality--
its adherents don't make arguments, they repreat mantra. Their motivation is
not intellectual honesty-- but defense of their idol.

Please, prove me wrong!

 __These are the classic comebacks of kids. Is this community made up of
college students? Is that the problem?

~~~
nostrademons
Is FreeNet really all that successful? I remember seriously looking into it
back in 2000, when Napster and Gnutella and FreeNet were all the rage, and
thinking it was incredibly innovative and potentially world-changing. However,
back then it had no GUI and required that you search for files by _hash code_
, both of which were showstoppers for me. I've kinda forgotten about it since,
because none of my friends use it. The Wikipedia article suggests that it
still has speed and usability problems. Have they fixed the showstoppers that
made me ignore it in 2000?

------
boris
I do think the remark about 5 minute IQ test is a bit arrogant. I am not sure
if Paul really said this (haven't read the article) or it was just journalism
as usual...

~~~
Goladus
I'd recommend taking quotes from a news article with a grain of salt. It's out
of context, and you don't get to hear tone of voice or see the expression on
his face.

My impression is that there are lots of insecure people who are way
overreacting to that comment. He took the sentence "we think the deal we offer
is great for the startup companies" and made a geeky joke out of it.

~~~
nostrademons
He did explain further on news.YC:

<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=21791>

It's still hard to tell tone of voice over the Internet, but it sounds like he
was serious about the IQ test part.

~~~
Benja
Yep, but then he explained it even further and made clear that the quote
didn't quite make clear what he said :-)

<http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=21967>

I've had the same reaction as boris when reading the original quote. But what
he was talking about was the case where someone turns them down _because of
the valuation_. And I can see Paul's point there, actually.

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greendestiny
Thanks to SwellJoe for setting it out straight, really why I bothered posting
this - so slashdotters could have an inside opinion on the process. Yes they
are angry sheep, but they are our geek brethren.

[http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=234583&cid;=19110535](http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=234583&cid=19110535)

~~~
BitGeek
Do you realize how patronizing you're being?

~~~
greendestiny
Yes. Well done for picking it up.

------
reitzensteinm
Slashdot commenters mindlessly bash subject of article. News at 11.

~~~
BitGeek
YC fans mindlessly bash anyone who disagrees. Nothing different here.

------
byrneseyeview
It's odd that they criticize the amounts raised so often: $15K for 5% means
YC's average bet is that the output of one project from two coders is worth
$300K. How many of the slashdot commenters think they could take a summer off
with a buddy and make $300K worth of software?

~~~
Sam_Odio
And that's not including the risk premium and required risk-free return, both
of which have been implicitly priced into the contract. To stay competitive,
VCs often require an expected annual return on new investments of 30-40%.
Because YC invests at such an early stage, I would suspect that their required
return should be much higher.

A 50% discount rate would lead to significantly larger average valuations @ 5%
equity ($15k invested): $450,000 after first year; $675,000 at second year; $1
million at third year.

Since any later financing would dilute their stake, the expected post-money
valuations should be even larger.

~~~
BitGeek
OH MY GOD! Its like you're brainwashed!

Let me ask you this- - you're buying a car. You're going to use this car to
deliver papers and make some money delivering pizza on the side. You're going
to build a little business here that's worth 10 times the value of the car
after a year or two.

Do you go to the bank who gives you %100 of the purchase price of the car in
exchange for %9 interest each year? Or do you go to the local loan shark who
charges you ("to stay competitive, of course") %30-%40 of the value of the
loan, plus-- if you decide to sell the car-- 4 times the value of the loan at
liquidation?

YC says you go to the loan shark and pay %400 for your money.

Slashdot "Trolls" say "that's way too much"... and you think they are engaging
in bad math?!?!

~~~
byrneseyeview
YC doesn't say that. YC isn't competing with the larger VCs, and as far as I
know large VCs wouldn't deal with a company the size of a YC candidate. Also,
the bank isn't giving you a list of customers whose credit card statements
show pizza and newspaper purchases in the last year.

Your analogy doesn't work; YC is buying equity just like anyone else. They're
getting it cheap because they're paying for a couple undergrads to work for
the summer -- your analogy would work if the bank would only give the loan if
you had an established business and promised to work full-time for years.

Since we have the math, there's no reason to make up emotionally charged
analogies. YC values these companies at somewhere between $100K ($10K for 10%)
and $1.5 million ($15K for 1%). They do some legal work, and offer lots of
advice and connections. Obviously, this isn't a good deal for everyone (given
the industry I'm in, for example, I'd probably pass on YC), but if you're
having trouble understanding why anyone would accept it, you may just have
trouble thinking like a smart, ambitious, well-informed twenty-something.

And judging by the quality of your writing, age is _not_ what sets you apart.

~~~
BitGeek
My analogy does work, but I wasn't talking aobut YC, I was talking about VC. I
wasn't saying the YC model was broken, I was saying the VC model is broken.

This is not an "emotionally charged" analogy, it is exatly correct. This is
probably not apparent because people tend to ignore the cost of VC money.

"And judging by the quality of your writing, age is not what sets you apart."

Seems all you got is insults... great argument technique.

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davidw
You guys still bother reading the comments on slashdot?

~~~
sabat
Who the hell even reads slashdot anymore? It's been years, for me. Digg and
Reddit pick up the stuff I actually want to know about, and I don't have to
put up with Cmdr Taco's government-conspiracy pontifications.

~~~
ecuzzillo
Uh, so, just to clarify, you a) like reading Reddit, and b) _don't_ like
government conspiracy pontifications?

Right.

~~~
sabat
The difference between Slashdot and Reddit is:

\- Reddit is a big group of paranoids ;-) rather than just one gun-toting
Michigan hick, and

\- the government "conspiracy" stories on Reddit are, by and large, true or
close to true, whereas on ./ they're complete mis-readings of stories or out-
and-out BS. It's a matter of degree, in other words.

------
juwo
why should it matter to any of you?

pg does not need (nor appreciates) any of us to be his defenders.

If we can help each other out some on this newsgroup (and I am willing to),
that is all that is necessary. [gets back to work].

