
The Kids Who Beat Autism - danso
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/magazine/the-kids-who-beat-autism.html
======
kohanz
It's probably due to me recently become a parent myself, but the thing that
gets me the most (and I'll admit I can barely read it without tearing up), is
the last bit about Jackie and her son Matthew, who has not responded to the
treatment at all:

 _Jackie’s son, Matthew, now 24, has not had that conversation with his
parents. In fact, he barely has conversations at all. At the group home where
he now lives, near a horse farm in the Berkshires, the staff can generally
interpret the sounds he makes. Sometimes he types clues on the iPod Touch his
parents gave him, because he long ago learned to spell the things that matter
to him. But mostly he seems absorbed by his interior life._

...

 _The idea that Matthew won’t recover no longer pains Jackie. “At some point,”
she told me, “I realized he was never going to be normal. He’s his own normal.
And I realized Matthew’s autism wasn’t the enemy; it’s what he is. I had to
make peace with that. If Matthew was still unhappy, I’d still be fighting. But
he’s happy. Frankly, he’s happier than a lot of typically developing kids his
age. And we get a lot of joy from him. He’s very cuddly. He gives us endless
kisses. I consider all that a victory.”_

I'm without words. Remarkable people.

~~~
cgio
Out of personal experience, this is the only way to live with it. Otherwise,
someone will be unhappy and most probably this one will be a child that has no
way to express the immensity of its distress. When we got the diagnosis for
our son, first night, we were sitting with my wife outside, while he was
sleeping. She told me "I do not want to force him to be something he is not. I
do not want him to be a robot." And we decided to try to instead understand
how it is to be him and find the best and most normal communication channel in
his world. In the process, I think we all developed and we are extremely lucky
to now read this article and know that he is very close to be one of these few
cases that are "cured". I will just leave this here, in case someone is going
through the same situation. You will find a million different treatments and
theories. Always be present at the treatment and see how it makes you feel. If
you feel alright, keep on. If something is feeling wrong leave. Do not
overload the child with specialist time, especially as he/she progresses the
time the child wants is with you. Work with the child like if you push one of
those super market trolleys with one wheel stuck, you have to move and bend
your own body. Finally, try to introduce the child to unexpectedness and
randomness. Do it gently. Flip a coin (randomness), hide the coin in your palm
and let him choose which palm it is in (unexpectedness of someone else's
decisions), play rock-paper-scissors. Don't do it all at once. It took us one
year form hidden coin to rock-paper-scissors. And finally read. You will
discover more about yourself in the process. Finally, be prepared to face
discrimination. It's not the worst kind, but very painful and disappointing.
This world will always resist difference in some form, and given the lax
network of people with this difference, discrimination against it is more
efficient and frustrating.

Edit: if the above sound simple, don't think I would ever imply so. When you
feel too tired to do anything, have some rest (if you can) and know that
probably everyone, but at least we, felt despair many times.

~~~
huuu
Reading this I cant understand some people remove there unborn because it is
diagnosed with a disorder like down.

Sure life can get difficult but reading your stories it seems that there is no
difference between a 'normal' child and one a little different.

~~~
cgio
Definitely, the fact that our love for our child is put to test does not in
any way mean that it is greater than the love a parent of a neurotypical child
has. But there are differences, like many more sleepless nights, a sweeping
change in social life, an increased anxiety for the future of the child when
we will not be around and of course the discrimination part I mentioned in the
end. As an example, families with a child on the spectrum have limited
mobility, not just because of the associated difficulties, but also because a
range of countries will just not accept them (e.g. Australia and Canada), or
will do so with much more difficulty. Therefore, while I understand where you
are coming from, there are practical, even ratified differences which make
some potential life paths even harder or impossible. Furthermore, these
difficulties are often supported by the same politics/politicians that claim
to care about all lives. On my part, I share with you the all encompassing
respect and appreciation of life, as I live a happy life next to a different
child that constantly amazes me. I would be reluctant to attribute someone
else's choice to their personal disrespect for life, as long as there is a
societal discrimination that might affect such decisions.

Edit: I wish to be a little more explicit. The choice discussion is void in my
eyes, since society has already made implicit choices around this subject
which form significant input to the individual decision processes. By sending
conflicting signals and putting forward choice on the one hand and respect for
life on the other, we are just shaking off a collective responsibility and
handing it over to an atomic existence that we already alienate in this
manner. Let's fix the social norms and then we can discuss more meaningfully.
If in the middle ages people with Down syndrome were properly integrated in
the society, the current state of affairs is telling of the brutality and
barbarism of our modern societies.

------
beatit
But what exactly constitutes "beating" Autism? Is this actually desirable?

I was diagnosed with Asperger's in the mid-90s. I wrote about the experience
anonymously for Boing Boing at one point[1].

But the TL;DR is that having lived in both "worlds", the experience of being
"cured" was not worth it. The emotional costs were much too high - I just
traded ASD for PTSD. I used to be a happy kid with few friends who tinkered
with computers. Now I'm a very social guy who will shake your hand, look you
in the eye, ask all the right questions to make you feel special. And I'll be
miserable the whole time.

[1]
[http://boingboing.net/2013/01/05/pedagogyofthedepressed.html](http://boingboing.net/2013/01/05/pedagogyofthedepressed.html)

~~~
throwaway58
I feel you. The weirdest thing about it for me is that I try to hide this even
from myself. I'm trying to be normal all day and think I don't even suffer
from autism that badly, but every now and again it just cracks.

In a way I'm like everyone else. I care about friends and family; I try to be
productive and make useful things; I like learning about new technologies. At
the same time I'm also different and people notice it. They don't ask me when
a group in class is going out to celebrate the holidays. I'd chicken out of
this social happening and probably say no, but what bothers me is that they
don't even ask.

Some vocalize that they notice something is off and I might tell them about
autism and give them an outline of what it means. If I tell them I often also
ask if they can put it into concrete examples of what I do differently. They
never can.

But I'll carry on. I'm normal enough, I can pull through life and make a
living. Hope to meet a SO some day who understands me. That probably means she
must have her limitations too and I'll have to live with that, but in return
she might understand mine and that's worth all the gold in the world.

Hope this isn't too weird a post for Hacker News, I needed to write this after
reading about a fellow person with autism. Keep hacking.

~~~
halfcat
>In a way I'm like everyone else.

When I was diagnosed with ADD as an adult, the doctor said, people with ADD
are just like everyone else, only moreso.

A lot of what I feel, and the comments I see from those diagnosed on the
autism spectrum, sounds like good old introversion. An introvert in a social
setting is very much wearing a mask, trying to hold on long enough before all
willpower is drained. I guess an extrovert probably feels the same about
reading Large Scale C++ Software Design on a Saturday night.

~~~
walterbell
Across the spectrum of neurodiversity (incl. ADD & autism), a large gap exists
in language for:

\- common emotional experiences, good and bad

\- coping patterns for profiling & impedance matching other humans

\- dysfunctional behavior patterns that should be avoided

Sadly, because most of these behaviors have been observed from the viewpoint
of medical pathology, many "dictionaries" have a negative slant.

E.g. ADD could be a "deficit" of attention, or it could be a "surplus" of
attention, e.g. someone switches into a context for a few seconds, then
switches out because they are already finished processing it. It's like the
duty cycle of an electronic component, forcing the duration to be longer would
lead to sensor overload.

Someone could be labelled introvert because they can only spend a short amount
of time with other people. But perhaps they have low psychic barriers for the
energy of other people and are being bombarded with emotions. Is that anti-
social or super-social? What if there was standardized terminology for
configuring emotional firewalls?

The language of disability is often defined by majorities. One ADD person with
four non-ADD people may be viewed as "rude" for interrupting before sentences
are complete, whereas one non-ADD person among four ADD people may be unable
to keep up with five concurrent and tangential conversations where completed
sentences are entirely optional.

~~~
thirdtruck
> The language of disability is often defined by majorities. One ADD person
> with four non-ADD people may be viewed as "rude" for interrupting before
> sentences are complete, whereas one non-ADD person among four ADD people may
> be unable to keep up with five concurrent and tangential conversations where
> completed sentences are entirely optional.

Thank you for making that comparison. I still struggle to hold back from
finishing others' sentences, even though it seems like I finish them
"correctly" more often than not.

I'm also reminded of how how middle eastern peace talks are complicated, in
part, by the major differences in conversational styles. One side expects to
be interrupted, while the other finds it incredibly rude.

~~~
walterbell
There's a great improv book that helps with inter-universe clock sync and
emotional reactions to resync operations :) [http://www.amazon.com/Impro-
Improvisation-Theatre-Keith-John...](http://www.amazon.com/Impro-
Improvisation-Theatre-Keith-Johnstone/dp/0878301178/)

~~~
thirdtruck
Seconded. I've been meaning to re-read my copy for ages.

------
fecak
One of the keys to treatment is catching it early. As the parent of a child
with autism, I am always surprised when I talk to people today who still
aren't aware of some of the signs that point to the possibility autism. I had
assumed they were common knowledge by now.

Things like toe-walking, repeating words or sounds (echolalia), limited or no
eye contact, and an unwillingness or inability to point to objects are fairly
easy things to observe in your own children or even kids you see around town.

The list in the link below is a good overview, and the few I listed above are
considered 'classic' symptoms to look for.

[http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/autism-
spectru...](http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/autism-spectrum-
disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20021148)

~~~
BasLeijdekkers
For any parents starting to get worried: toe-walking is completely normal for
many children below 5 years old and even older[1]. Usually they grow out of it
as they get older. So I would definitely not consider that a sign pointing to
the possibility of autism.

[1] [http://www.webmd.com/children/news/20120723/childrens-toe-
wa...](http://www.webmd.com/children/news/20120723/childrens-toe-walking-not-
sign-bigger-problems)

~~~
joezydeco
But it can be one flag (of many) pointing to a sensory processing disorder and
should be noted if other behaviors are seen.

My son toe-walked. We did some mild sensory-processing screening and therapy
which helped. It also turned out that his tendons were too short and he needed
serial casting to get them stretched out far enough.

------
PhasmaFelis
The photo caption at the top of the article: "Mark Macluskie, 16, who is no
longer autistic."

That's wrong. He's learned coping strategies that let him deal with the
negative characteristics of autism, enough that most people don't perceive him
as autistic. That's excellent, an ideal outcome. I've done the same with my
own autism. I haven't stopped being autistic. There are other traits, many of
them positive, that will always be with me, just as they are for Mark.

There's this awful mindset that autism is a sickness, and if you stop acting
sick, you no longer have autism. Mark's mother says, “Even doctors say, ‘Well,
he must have been misdiagnosed, because a person can’t stop having autism.’
It’s so frustrating. Mark worked so hard. To deny everything he did to get
this far isn’t fair.” I know she means well, and has done well by her son, but
this shit makes me want to flip a table. Autism is not a mark of shame.
There's nothing wrong with being a high-functioning autistic. We need to stop
spreading this malignant notion that autistics are damaged by definition.

------
scythe
IIRC, these kinds of approaches are collectively termed "positive psychology":

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_psychology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_psychology)

The theories in this field suggest that many disorders can be explained as the
absence of certain knowledge and skillsets: in the case of autism, language
skills and nonverbal social skills; in the case of depression, stress
management and exercise habits, among others.

Another way to look at it is that there are actually several underlying causes
of autism, not all of which must be present for symptoms to appear, and only
in certain cases can it be reversed. It appears that a particular and
persistent functional deficit in the children treated was that they did not
understand how to get other people's attention: maybe various events or
genetic factors in early childhood can inhibit the way this is normally
learned, and maybe that learning process can be retriggered.

~~~
pekk
ABA is in NO way part of positive psychology. It is an offshoot of Skinner's
school of behaviorism.

~~~
tedks
A positive psychologist might use behaviorist techniques, cognitive
techniques, or even psychoanalytical techniques if they think it will
contribute to their patient becoming less incongruent.

Positive psychology is a preference of goal states; behaviorism is an early
theoretical approach (the first scientific approach to psychology) to studying
minds.

------
craigching
I debated posting this, but there is one part of the article that really
resonated with me:

 _I asked him if there was anything he missed about being autistic. “I miss
the excitement,” he said. “When I was little, pretty often I was the happiest
a person could be. It was the ultimate joy, this rush in your entire body, and
you can’t contain it. That went away when my sister started teasing me and I
realized flapping wasn’t really acceptable._

I have a son that "flaps" and we have been concerned about autism for about a
year and a half now, since he turned two. He has _some_ autism signs, but our
developmental ped says not the _classic_ signs. He can do eye contact, he is
social, but he didn't speak, he did have the "daydream gaze."

We've been doing speech therapy now since he turned 2 and we've added an
additional speech therapist since he turned 3. His progress has been
remarkable, I can have a real conversation with him sometimes (granted, I have
to infer a lot, but it's huge from where he was!). He has issues "taking
turns", waiting in lines for camel rides at the zoo or getting on the carousel
is really hard for him.

So, the flapping thing. My kid is _great_! I love him as he is! I want the
best for him, I want him to be as "normal" as possible. But if he says what
this kid says, that he was happier flapping, then I really hope he doesn't
lose that. I love him as he is and I want nothing more for him than to be
happy. We are extremely fortunate that he's not been diagnosed with
debilitating autism and might have what's known as sensory perception disorder
instead. But in the end, it doesn't matter, he's a great kid and he's happy
and I want to keep it that way.

~~~
obituary_latte
>“When I wanted to flap, I’d put my hands in my pockets. I think I came up
with that on my own. It was frustrating for those two years. It was like
smiling and then someone telling you that you shouldn’t smile, that smiling
was wrong. Remembering to put my hands in my pockets made me less excited
because I had to think about it so much. But as time goes on, you get in the
habit. So by the time I was 10 or 11, I wasn’t even feeling the urge to flap.”

I didn't understand what flapping was until I read your comment and searched
the op for clarification. Coming across the above quote was...I'm not sure
what it was. I do feel a bit more sad about the situation after reading it
though.

Please (and I recognize this is likely moot as you seem quite aware) consider
what "normal" means and what its worth might be.

~~~
craigching
> I didn't understand what flapping was

Right! I'm assuming everyone knows what flapping is, but it's not obvious!
It's literally flapping your hands in ... anticipation? excitement? sensory
overload? I don't know, but I think my son does.

> Please ... consider what "normal" means and what its worth might be.

Yes, I put "normal" in quotes for a reason as I don't particularly care too
much about "normal." For me and my son "happy" is more important than normal
for the most part. But, there is a _huge_ issue. I chose to have children
later in life (I'm 43 right now and my son is 3). So there is pressure on me
and my family to make sure that whatever happens that my son is cared for and
kept happy.

I can't guarantee that I can ensure he's financially taken care of after I'm
gone. I _hope_ that issue is far down the road and I hope it won't be an
issue, _but_ what if it is? Do I work on helping him to become "normal"? Or do
I _hope_ that I can provide for him _no matter what_?

So do I make the decision at all costs to make sure he's provided for by
becoming "normal" or do I dash that to the wind and hope I make enough money
to provide for him when I'm gone, but keep him happy?

There is a good reason to making sure that he can be productive in society at
the cost of losing himself (if that's possible, no one knows that it is) vs.
keeping who he is at all costs. Does that make sense?

I hope it's clear that I love him for who he is no matter what, but that I
want to make sure that he has a "good" life for the rest of his life.
Hopefully this is all moot as he's doing very well with speech therapy and
occupational therapy.

~~~
obituary_latte
>I hope it's clear that I love him for who he is no matter what...

Yes, that's very clear. I think considering who his father is, either way,
he'll be just fine. I wish you both the best.

------
junto
I noted earlier that a friend of mine is an ABA therapist and has been working
with autistic children for over 20 years.

He once told me that I was in what he termed 'a risk group for having a child
with autism'.

I was taken aback and he went on to explain that while there is no hard and
fast rule, it had been noted that there was a prevalence of fathers with
particular types of job, namely engineers and computer scientists, amongst the
fathers of the autistic children they cared for.

Often the fathers (and on rare occasions the mothers), were also 'within the
same spectrum', even if it just manifested itself as social introversion or
'geekyness'.

In retrospect I imagine this isn't often discussed with the parents since
throwing 'genetic blame' around isn't exactly productive and it is widely
believed that there is no singular 'cause of autism' anyway.

~~~
colomon
My son has been diagnosed with Asperger's, and after learning more about it,
it is painfully clear that both I and my wife and several other close family
members have many of the same traits, just not extreme enough to be a
"problem".

That is to say, the official DSM-5 definition of autism includes "Symptoms
cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other
important areas of current functioning." I definitely feel like I share many
of the traits, but they just make me socially awkward rather than
significantly impairing me.

So I'll be shocked if there doesn't turn out to be a very significant genetic
link. I suspect difficulties so far in finding it have to do with lumping too
many people in as "autistic" while excluding too many people who are "sort of
autistic." The classes still need a better refactoring. :)

------
incision
Good article.

I'm hesistant to talk about it, even in the relative anonymity of my HN
username, but swathes of this article read like a script covering the past few
years for us.

Thankfully, we've had great success, but not without constant effort and
patience on all fronts - at home, out and about, when researching, when
dealing with our county and state resources, insurance company and of course
all the people who have _very_ strong opinions on all things autism.

In a nutshell, I'm all for the sort techniques the article describes alongside
a sensible definition of 'normal' and most importantly selflessness in seeking
what's best for your child.

If anyone reading this has an inkling to chat, feel free to use the email in
my profile.

~~~
Jupe
Having kids is a gamble. Having a child diagnosed with Autism (as my won was
at the age of 2) is a gamble as well. We lost the first bet, but like you,
seem to be doing better on the second one.

We (my wife and I) wagered nearly everything - our financial resources, career
changes, intense daily effort for years, endless therapies (PLAY, ABA, RDI,
OT, PT, Aqua, you name it), and the gamble has "paid off". Upon first meeting
few would pick up on our son's 'quirkyness'.

Our ABA records indicate it took my son 600 tries to learn the color red.
Today, its his favorite color... and I'm perfectly fine with that. The process
changed my son... but he's happy, well functioning, has friends, has opinions,
has ideas (some kinda wacky!) but I'd do it all again in a heart beat.

Overall, the effort has cost us (financially, health, atrophied tech skills ,
even socially), but it's all worth it for him. There's no comparison between
hearing a roaring belly laugh from him vs. him perseverating on some toy car.

Keep it up and I wish you the best!

------
Hytosys
The field has made significant improvements past ABA with PRT (pivotal
response therapy[1]). PRT extends upon ABA by, instead of rewarding with
"tickling him or giving him an M&M," using the patient's restricted interest
as a reward itself. The "three small laminated coupons" method in this article
is somewhat related to the PRT methodology.

Drs. Lynn and Robert Koegel of UC Santa Barbara[2] run a center for ASD
treatment using PRT. The idea behind the center is significant parent PRT
education.

I feel the urge to bring this up because whenever ASD is written about, no one
seems to be up to date on the research. The vaccine/vitamin/mercury bullshit
doesn't help.

Throwing this article[3] in here because everyone is talking about a "cure"
for autism, while research is providing compelling evidence that there isn't
much to be medically cured, really.

[1]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivotal_response_therapy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivotal_response_therapy)

[2] [http://education.ucsb.edu/autism](http://education.ucsb.edu/autism)

[3]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity)

------
forrestthewoods
This is wild. It seems to support that argument isn't "thing" that you "have".
Instead it's a description of the state of a brain. And, perhaps most
importantly, that brain state isn't necessarily fixed. Autism isn't a
fundamental property of the brain state. It's only a description of the
current state. And with great effort, and a lot of luck, that state can be
changed. Wild.

~~~
a8da6b0c91d
> it's a description of the state of a brain

Most people with autism have bad digestive tract problems and other
inflammatory issues like asthma. Autism is a systemic disease, not simply
something in the brain. This is also true of other "mental" illnesses such as
schizophrenia and depression.

~~~
ashleyp
Autism isn't a disease...others don't even classify autism as a 'mental'
illness. Those on the high-end of the spectrum may feel they just have a
different brain, and a gift.

~~~
perrylaj
Whether autism is a 'disease', 'illness' or 'disorder' is somewhat of a
semantic issue at this point due to the fact that 1) those words can and are
used interchangeably depending on social context, and 2)lack of understanding
in the underlying mechanisms. Given Autism is a spectrum disorder, there are
going to be those who take umbrage with being labeled, but also those who are
clearly disabled and unable to care for themselves.

Some cases clearly present as a disease state, with autoimmune issues,
neurological issues, etc. Whether these are comorbid conditions or really part
of autism itself isn't clear at this point. The fact that children also
commonly 'regress' following periods of normal development also argues in
favor or some sort of disease state, for the same reason we call Parkinson's a
disease.

I have a strong hunch that "Autism" as we know it will continue to be teased
apart into a variety of more specific diagnosis. We've already seen this to
some extent where other developmental disorders once lumped in with ASD have
been specifically named following etiological discovery.

From my own experience: My son is autistic. I suppose he'd fall under the 'low
functioning' side of the spectrum. He can't talk, doesn't understand language
receptively very well, is incapable of controlling himself when excited, etc.

Anyway, I try to be involved (or at least aware) of every aspect of his
education, and in doing so regularly visit his classroom. What strikes me most
is that there is such large variability between 'autistic' individuals. There
are some commonalities, unquestionably, but there are just as many
differences. However, through regular observation I have noticed trends
amongst the kids, or 'clusters' as I call them. I am sure social factors play
a substantial role in the variability, but trying to see past that, it seems
to me like there are different 'types' of autism.

Of course, I'm no autism researcher (though I've been involved in research at
the MIND Institute), and don't pretend to be any sort of neuroscientist with
only a BS in biochemistry and a few classes involving neurobiology years ago
-- but I'm not the only one who notices this. It almost seems 'common
knowledge' to the Occupational/Speech/Adaptive ...etc therapists and educators
who deal with dozens of kids on a daily basis. That these subgroups of autism
aren't more commonly researched/published really surprises me, and trust me, I
look for them.

In time we'll uncover much more about
neurological/genetic/epigenetic/microbial factors involved in these 'types'
and probably result in a number of different formal diagnosis/treatments. I
would not be surprised if those considered 'high functioning' are found to
differ enough to warrant a separate diagnosis from those on the 'low
functioning' side.

edit: a word

~~~
Roboprog
I think you really hit on something with the "regress at some point" idea. Our
youngest daughter has severe (low functioning) autism. Starting around 1 year
old, her behavior and language seemed to start regressing (she was talking in
3 word "sentences" prior to that). At first, we had a "diagnosis" of Pervasive
Development Disability - Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS) before officially
getting one of actual Autism. It has taken years of therapy (ABA), and many
doctor visits (I assume MIND institute refers to UC Davis Med Center MIND...,
which we've certainly been to) to get her at 10 years old to function at
roughly the level of a 3 year old.

That regression seems to divide the Aspergers from the hard-core Autistics.
Our son has Aspergers, as well, but is quite intelligent. Getting him to shut
up about his own little world can be a challenge, though. He is learning to
cope, and dealing with his issues is far preferable to low functioning autism.
(unless of course one likes having ones house tore up most of the time, "potty
breaks" in random spots around the house, and trying to keep a child from
running out of the house who may or may not be dressed...)

------
junto
A friend of mine is an ABA therapist. I sat in on one of his sessions once
with the parents' permission (takes place in the family house).

I was amazed at how exhausting it is for all concerned, including the child.
The costs are also astronomical since the process is extremely human resource
dependent for a long time. For most families who are lucky enough to afford or
be funded for an ABA program, the children often start aged 2+ and continue on
until mid-teens.

Families are forced to give up almost everything to take part in these
programmes. They have my utmost respect.

------
iterationx
My mom helped a kid with autism using the Son-Rise program.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son-Rise](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son-Rise)
program. It worked well for him.

------
walshemj
So if you have high IQ you have more success in devising coping strategies -
not exactly rocket science.

You don't cure Autisiam/Dyslexia or these sorts of learning disabilities you
develop strategies to cope.

------
Renaud
A related story, the amazing Dr. Temple Grandin[1] whose life was documented
in a BBC Horizon documentary a few years ago: "The woman who thinks like a
cow"[2].

[1]:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin)

[2]:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6aClN6VsTE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6aClN6VsTE)

------
nashashmi
OMG! This article is a complete breath of fresh air. Autistic people are
considered disabled or retarded but they are not. They are actually quite
intelligent. In fact, too intelligent that it gets in the way of social
development (or rather WE determine them to be socially undeveloped). Their
minds race in only certain directions and leaves behind development in social
interactions. This lack of social development overshadows and hides all of the
other things they are good at.

Autistic people have a difficult time of inferring social behavior. It does
not come naturally to them. The behavior needs to be spelled out and
explicitly stated.

Autistic people are programmable individuals, but the only problem is that
normal people lack the interface to communicate with them.

I am glad to hear of the positiveness expressed in this article, but I do not
like the over-sensationalized title "kids who beat Autism". No one ever
'beats' autism.

------
CatMtKing
From the article it seems like some of the symptoms are associated with
inadequate sensing or awareness of social cues. That makes me wonder if
taijiquan is a good exercise to help with that, as it trains sensitivity to
small movements, intentions, and body structure. I'm not sure how well kids
pick it up, though.

------
itaifrenkel
Three days ago I had the most amazing experience playing in playback theater
for a room full of (~100) grownups of the autistic spectrum (living in hostels
in the community, mostly with high verbal skills). The stories they chose to
share were about couples. A loss of a lifelong partner, I want to see my best
friend every day. I remember a story of a young man (in his twenties). He was
advocated by his girlfriend to go up and share his story. She didn't talk but
her body language was very convincing taking his hand waving it up in the air,
smiling, looking directly at the host. He was very shy, and the host decided
that it was not that she was pushing him to do something he didn't wanted, but
that she was in some way representing him, and that shy people should also get
their chance of telling their story. It took a while to understand his story,
but in a nutshell her parents invited them (for dinner?) , and his parents did
not. He couldn't answer some of the questions (such as what did they do at her
parents house), so the host and him stood up hand in hand walked to his
partner and she somehow helped him to feel good again (I think she said it was
dinner, but they had this connection that was more than that). We played-back
the story on stage (improvised play) in which they meet at work as they do
every day, and then he talks with his parents over the phone and they invite
them over for dinner. I can't describe the joy on his face. He no longer
looked down, he was so happy. We were so happy! After the show, we met with
one of their instructors and he explained to us that they rarely if ever get a
chance to tell their story to someone that would actually listen, not to
mention see their story on stage. After the show ended I went outside of the
building to take a taxi and I felt in an instant how the war depression is
weighting on me again (I'm from Tel Aviv/Israel everyone is depressed from the
endless blood cycle). And then it hit me, that for the first time in a month,
I was in a room with people that weren't depressed by the war. We are coming
back a few months from now to another group and I can't wait.

------
tmosleyIII
My 7yr old son is autistic and so much of what this article says and what
others have commented, has been the same wild ride for us. He is a happy happy
little person that wants to laugh and be loved (and eaten my Zombie Dad once
in awhile.)

For the other parents out there, I don't know if they have it in your state
but Ohio has things like the Autism Scholarship and grants from different
Autism groups. Those really helped with those sessions not covered by
insurance or being able to go to a school that provides a little more help.

------
JackFr
This article is a enlightening counterpart to the 'emerging neuroscience'
chorus, who would have us believe that a full model of consciousness and the
brain is just around the corner. That those trying treat autism haven't a clue
what causes the onset, and why certain therapies are effective tells me that
we really are at the stage of the absolutely primitive models of brain
activity.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8069310](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8069310)

------
pharaohgeek
Our son was diagnosed with a mild form of Autism right before his 3rd
birthday. He had little-to-no pragmatic language, although he was verbal.
Thanks to Baby Einstein videos, he could name all of his
shapes/colors/animals/etc. He could name every instrument in an orchestra. At
the same time, however, he couldn't tell us his name, when he was thirsty,
when he didn't feel well. There were tantrums... LOTS of tantrums. It was
exhausting and painful because you knew that he was upset about SOMETHING, you
just didn't know what.

We were very fortunate to be here in Baltimore, home of the Kennedy-Krieger
Institute. Our pediatric neurologist there was very thorough -- and painfully
blunt -- in describing what we needed to do, and what would happen if we did
or didn't. We located a clinic nearby that works with children on the Autism
spectrum. They specialized in Applied Verbal Behavior therapy. Walking into
the clinic, you would think you entered a Chuck E. Cheese's. There are toys
everywhere. Kids are running around screaming. And the adult therapists are
doing the exact same thing! When I visited there for the first time only one
thing came to mind: "These people are nuts. They're nuts, and we're going to
give them $$$$ and our child and nothing is going to change."

I could not have been more wrong. Within HOURS of starting there he could tell
us his name and his age whenever we asked. At first, it was obviously just
memorized repetition - he said it the same way every single time. That's how
it was with everything he learned at first. When he asked for water, he asked
for it the same way every time. But, as time went on and he developed better
pragmatic language skills, he began to "speak", not just regurgitate. As far
as I'm concerned, the people there are miracle workers. He worked with 2
specific therapists during the 2 years he was there, and they showed him an
immeasurable amount of love and concern.

At times, reading articles about Autism therapy -- and the comments that
inevitably follow -- can be very upsetting. Often, I read about how ABA
therapy ends up being traumatic for the child. While I am certainly no
behavioral or Autism expert, I don't think that should be the case. My son's
therapists certainly pushed him. There were certainly days that were very hard
on him. However, days like this were not the norm. And he truly loved going
there, because the way they instructed him was through play. They didn't sit
him down at a table in an empty room and force him to do things. They simply
met him where he was and connected to him there.

It's also quite upsetting to read the comments by parents -- and those with
Autism/Asperger's themselves. Often I'll read things like, "There's nothing
wrong with my child! They don't need to be 'fixed'!" I'll read comments from
individuals with Autism along the same lines, and it's obvious that they have
been judged and discriminated against their entire lives. It's wrong. As a
father who loves my son more than anything in this world, I will simply say
this: Was there "something wrong" with my son? Unfortunately, yes. From a
neurological standpoint, absolutely. However, did I look at him like a broken
DVD player and say, "There's something wrong with this. Let's get rid of it
and get another."? Not a chance. Without the therapy that my son received, the
odds are overwhelming that he would not be able to function on his own in
society. He wouldn't have been able to go to school. He wouldn't have been
able to relate to others or have friends. When my wife and I died, there's no
way he would have been able to function on his own. We didn't get him therapy
to help US. We got him therapy to help HIM.

Today, he's entering 3rd grade. He's got friends. He's HIGHLY verbal. In fact,
he never stops talking. He's insanely intelligent, with math and reading
skills approaching high school levels. It's wonderful to see. The only thing
that hasn't changed is how loved he is. Does he still have problems?
Definitely. He has anxiety issues, as well as ADHD. Rigidity is a major
problem. Those are issues we're tackling now. But, I shudder to think about
what he would have missed out on had we not gotten him the help he needed
early on.

------
danso
Off-topic: I posted this yesterday, it didn't get many votes (probably because
posting longform articles on autism may not get much readers during the work
day)...but suddenly it's ( _my submission_ , not someone else's resubmission)
is on HN's front page...Despite it being a day old? I think karma-gravity
formula may be off...?

note to downvoters: I'm not complaining about not getting upvotes for a day-
old submission. I'm confused as to how my day-old submission is suddenly, as
of 10 minutes ago, on the front page?

~~~
clamprecht
I noticed PG tweeted this article yesterday. Interesting article. Maybe PG
voted for it on HN, and maybe his vote has a lot of weight.

~~~
dang
Good guess.

------
dschiptsov
The term Autism is as meaningless and vague as the term Hysteria in times of
Froid. There is a whole scale of ASDs, which have very different causes and
symptoms and hardly could be fit in a single oversimplified category.
Especially when used in media.

Some causes are "environmental" and of personal experiences, like childhood
traumas or, which is the most common scenario, lack of proper treatment by
parents and abusing by others as "being stupid". These conditions could be
successfully treated by various CBTs, including those based oon "overcoming
ignorance", to which I am myself a living proof.

But there are also various neurological disorders which cannot be lifted by
mere CBTs.

So, the meme of autism as in characters like Rocky or Travis (these are the
most "realistic" ones) or modern memes of autistic techies or hackers (with a
very few well-known exceptions) are, well, a stupid memes. Life of an ordinary
person with Aspergers (as they call us) is by no means a movie. It is just a
severe condition of confusion, frustration and pain.

Unfortunately, modern media are made out of memes because common folks cannot
grasp the subtleties of reality, which is indeed a not easy task.

So, non-neuroligical condition changed by a improvised CBT is not such a great
news. These things happen routinely and quetly in the rest of the world.

------
murbard2
tl;dr: operant conditioning. The method described is exactly how you train a
puppy.

~~~
gohrt
Downvoters, take note:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_behavior_analysis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_behavior_analysis)

"Applied behavior analysis (ABA), previously known as behavior
modification,[1] is the application of operant and classical conditioning to
modify human behaviors as part of a learning or treatment process. "

~~~
murbard2
Thanks, I suppose I should have been a little less terse. I suspect the
downvoters didn't really get what I was saying. (Or dare I say, their reaction
was... pavlovian).

So yes, the approach described in the article is exactly the approach used
when training an animal. And no, that doesn't mean the poor autistic kid isn't
a human being... it means the principles of reinforcement learning are
universal.

Perhaps in this case the approach worked because it was a way to teach the
child without the use of language.

------
6581
Suggesting that autism can be healed or that there are children "who no longer
have autism" is very misleading. Individuals can learn how to deal with the
symptoms of autism and how to appear "normal" to others, but that doesn't make
it a cure. It's merely a way to try to fit into society that sometimes works
out and sometimes doesn't.

Edit: It would be helpful to know why I'm being downvoted in this thread. What
I stated about the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria isn't wrong; that doesn't mean I
agree with it.

~~~
astrange
> Individuals can learn how to deal with the symptoms of autism and how to
> appear "normal" to others, but that doesn't make it a cure.

How can you know that? I mean, you seem to be just restating the status quo
against this article, but they've provided evidence against it, and you're not
providing any evidence for it.

It doesn't seem like the kids have to do anything consciously such that they'd
"become autistic" again if they stopped.

What's most interesting to me is that they can't tell what's going on inside
young kids just by observing them.

~~~
6581
DSM-5 explicitly states that diagnostic criteria may apply "currently or by
history". This makes a cure for autism impossible by definition.

~~~
gohrt
[http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-
fallaci...](http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-
fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition)

Even ignoring the fact that DSM has major changes in every revision...

That's totally unhelpful. Use words to communicate, not confuse.

If I say "two plus two is five", and then explain it by counting "one, two,
three, five", it's clear that I am using a different _word_ , but I have the
same _idea_ as the common "two plus two is four".

When you seek to compate with a definition to empirical data, if the
definition doesn't match, that means that _the words we are using need to be
clarified_ , not that the empirical data is wrong. (The data might be wrong,
but "appeal to dictionary" is not a persuasive argument.

~~~
6581
The problem is that the only broadly accepted definitions of autism we have
are in the DSM-5 and ICD-10.

In a broader sense, this shows a fundamental flaw of psychology. I'm not
saying I agree with the diagnostic criteria, but it's all we have.

------
guard-of-terra
One family had a boy who, despite growing healthy, did not speak. He seemed to
understand what's spoken to him, but never uttered a word in return. Doctors
could not help.

Pass fifteen years; one day this family dines, and suddently the "mute" boy
proclaims in displeased voice: There's too many salt in the porrige!

His father and mother hug him in tears and ask: Dear son, but why didn't you
talk?

"Before today, everything was all right!"

\----

It seems that autists really do have this attitude when it comes to
interaction with other people (or avoidance of it).

~~~
cthulhuhodor
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABfDK1ludng](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABfDK1ludng)

------
djmollusk
Poor Christian Weston Chandler

