
Cirrus Vision – Single-engine personal jet aircraft - cft
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/19/luxury/personal-jet/
======
anovikov
Its speed and range specs are so poor that it is joke of a jet. It performs
worse than many turboprops. Can totally see no point in owning this.

There are no 'real' jets below Embraer Phenom 100 $4M price tag, sorry. Cessna
Mustang at $3.3M but it doesn't have 'real' toilet. Or Eclipse 550 at $3M but
it has none at all.

There are aftermarket conversions of old Cessna Citations like Sierra, they
start from $1M used or $2M new and provide a killer value compared to any of
these, with 3000-4000km range, full size toilet and much bigger/comfier
cabins.

~~~
ivanech
I mean this with sincere curiosity - why do the toilets dictate the 'realness'
of a jet?

~~~
anovikov
Definitely. There is no potential for charter operations for a plane with no
toilet. Many companies learned it the hard way trying to operate the Eclipse.
With no charter market, plane is dead because there are never enough hobby
pilots to buy it to pay back sunk costs. For low-range flights <600 miles
where operating without toilet is feasible, helicopter works better.

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dorfsmay
> The experienced pilot sitting beside me assured me I couldn't crash the
> plane. It pretty much wouldn't let me.

Isn't this what Airbus used to say?

Since computers are doing more and more of the flying, the one thing that is
heard on Cockpit Voice recorder before the rash is "What is the plane doing?"
There is a lot of research in this domain, there is no way we will go back to
full manual flying, but there is a lot of research in how to let the pilot
know what the airplane is doing in a clear manner that is obvious even during
a stressful situation.

Two examples of planes crashing because of misunderstanding between the pilots
and the computers:

\-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Transportes_A%C3%A9reos_Re...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAM_Transportes_A%C3%A9reos_Regionais_Flight_402)
The reverser deployed on one side, did not let the pilot know, the computer
cut the power on that side, did not let the pilot know why, the pilots assumed
there issue was the power being cut off for no reason, so reapplying it making
the situation worse

\-
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines_Flight_7...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines_Flight_751)
The pilots reduce power on one-side because of surging in that engine, the
computer saw that as an anomaly and increased power in both engine resulting
in the break up of both engine. The computer never told the pilots what it was
doing, the pilot had never been briefed on this mechanism. The captain retired
as he felt he could no longer flying safely if he didn't know what the planes
were doing.

~~~
opticalflow
Yep, it's all fun and games until your ASI goes haywire because of ice or a
bug in your pitot tube, see

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Final_re...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447#Final_report)

However one thing I _DO_ find clever about the Vision is their fully
integrated AOA indicator as a primary instrument. This seems to be gaining
traction in the industry overall, which should have positive impact on flight
safety.

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pcurve
For $2 mil, you get a brand new plane with jet engine, modern cockpit for two
pilots, and a parachute for the entire plane. I'd say that's revolutionary. No
toilet? Is that such a big deal on small planes like this?

~~~
mrleinad
Considering you'll have to land before 1100 km and that shouldn't take more
than an hour and a half, I'd say it's more nitpicking than a real issue. Just
take it into account and go to the toilet beforehand, with some plastic bags
or empty bottles for emergencies.

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phkahler
How does this compare: [http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-
vtwin.html](http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-models-vtwin.html)

~~~
unchocked
Incomparable, other than they both fly.

The Cirrus vision is a certified, pressurized turbofan aircraft. The Velocity
is an experimental, piston engined unpressurized aircraft.

It's like comparing a garage-built VW replica with a Maybach.

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MiddleEndian
Regarding bathroom comments:

This seems to be a personal vehicle for very rich people. Most cars don't have
bathrooms either.

~~~
achamayou
But even the very rich need to use the bathroom from time to time, and landing
a jet is significantly more involved than stopping a car for a break.

~~~
cft
"relief station” portable toilet that is available as an option “just in case
of emergency,”

[http://m.aviationweek.com/ebace-2015/cirrus-closes-
personal-...](http://m.aviationweek.com/ebace-2015/cirrus-closes-personal-jet-
finish-line-after-10-year-stretch)

~~~
forthefuture
Hard to imagine paying $2 million for a plane and shitting in a bucket behind
a curtain.

~~~
andrejk
There's a good story about that... [https://medium.com/@JohnLeFevre/the-
roadshow-aka-the-worst-p...](https://medium.com/@JohnLeFevre/the-roadshow-aka-
the-worst-private-plane-trip-of-all-time-3eb88ab42b18)

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dingaling
I expected to find a modern equivalent to the Bede BD-5J ( single-engine,
single-seat ) but it's just another small-cabin jet. Even Gulfstream tried
that back in the 1980s with the single-engine Peregrine.

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pbsurf
Fuel consumption works out to between 2 and 4 mpg, depending on payload.

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vosper
Do the parachutes work reliably?

Presumably once it's deployed you lose all control, and land wherever, which
might be okay if you land on a field, but what about a lake?

~~~
sowbug
There is a joke among Cirrus owners that the way to deploy the parachute is to
pull it with your right hand, and then call your insurance agent with your
left hand. The implication is that the aircraft is likely a total loss from
that point.

Of the ~100 Cirrus parachute deployments to date, about 15 planes were
repaired and put back into service. There were about 150 survivors and 1
fatality in those deployments. Cirrus says deployments have never failed when
the system was being used within limits. I wasn't able to find the
circumstances of that death, but the numbers show that yes, the parachutes are
reliable.

As you point out, they can't protect you from whatever you land on -- lake,
volcano, piranhas, etc.

~~~
jly
Yeah but who really cares if the plane is a loss? If you pull that lever, you
are doing it because you would otherwise probably die. I'd say that's worth a
total loss.

~~~
sowbug
I doubt anyone does care. You might have misinterpreted the joke as advice not
to use the mechanism when it's needed. It's just making light of the next step
after surviving having crashed your plane.

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empressplay
No toilet? Pass.

