
Anti-Tech Protesters Are Telling Kevin Rose’s Neighbors That He’s A “Parasite” - mason240
http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/06/kevin-rose-protesters-parasite/
======
pbateman
_We are the ones who serve them coffee, deliver them food, suck their cocks,
watch their kids, and mop their floors_

...

 _To this end, we now make our first clear demand of Google. We demand that
Google give three billion dollars to an anarchist organization of our
choosing._

On the one hand I feel sorry for Kevin having to deal with these crackpots, on
the other hand these crackpots are so bad at PR it's hilarious.

~~~
ajkjk
Of course, why would they, 'ordinary' (bear with me) people not caught up in
the world of PR and media and product promotion, have any talent at PR?

I think they're allowed to be mad regardless of their media savvy.

~~~
sentenza
That last line is quite curious, though. As far as I know, only a very small
fraction of modern day anarchists is self-describing as anarchists. Most of
the others consider the term unfashionable and derogatory.

Here in Europe the self-describing Anarchists are the Punks and the Black
Block and they tend to drive people away from a cause by co-opting it.

~~~
dobbsbob
Black Bloc is a tactic, not a group. The anarchists here have all turned into
Maoists who venerate the Naxalite rebellion in India. Chairman Mao figures
prominently in the old anarchist space I used to go to back when it was also a
hacker space. Peasant armed revolt is ridiculous in a first world country, I
stopped going also it's full of state spies to watch for anti pipeline protest
planning another good reason to avoid the space.

------
matthewmacleod
I'd love to know who's actually putting the effort into this nonsense. While
gentrification causes obvious problems, particularly around housing, the
rampant doublethinky ignorance of literally pointing out that tech money is
providing jobs and investment in the area is a bit hard to swallow… feels like
there's something else going on here.

~~~
trevyn
Unfortunately, San Francisco has more than its share of untreated mentally
ill, and this note reads like that to me.

~~~
matthewmacleod
I think that's a bit of a trivialisation of the issue. There's clearly a
literate, intelligent, and reasonably well-organised group that's been pushing
this stuff recently, and I struggle to picture who they are, and why they're
wasting their time like this.

~~~
doctorcroc
Resentment, plain and simple. The tech industry represents a missed chance for
those who did not hop on board. And compounded by SV's tendency to produce
lots of self-serving products (and not to mention the implicit elitism), this
sentiment was bound to emerge.

~~~
001sky
To be fair, I don't think anarchists in SF envision silicon valley as a
"missed chance". Silicon Valley has been there for 50 years. Silicon Valley
came to them.

Whether or not anyone agrees, that's how they see it. Genrtification isn't
about winning--or losing--for them its about killing a place/era they used to
calll home.

Think woodstock or other "lost eras". Those times only last a short while and
are fleeting. Because they are a function of the fact that they were new and
unknown (at the time). Once everyone tramples into the place, whatever place
it was before is gone.

Even if you still are theree: it sucks having "new neighbors" thay you just
don't like. Even if you're a landowner or an established person.

See, eg
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7540842](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7540842)

(Similar story in NY)

------
morgante
Originally, I was optimistic about the movement. The rent in SF is indeed too
damn high.

Sadly it's completely radicalized into an organization which harasses
individuals for the crime of spreading capital and demands that Google fund
anarchist communes.

So much for anything positive (ex. better zoning) coming of it.

~~~
dragontamer
More or less, the same thing happened with Occupy. Its more that SF is a major
hub of rebellious anarchists who are utterly inept at running political
campaigns or creating anything useful.

Occupy kind-of sorta had meaning, until those west-coast anarchists started
storming banks, breaking windows, and turned the whole event into a "F __* the
Police " festival.

That sort of behavior scares away the Teachers Unions, the Police Unions...
and the many others (who are part of the 99%), and greatly hampers the
movement. Nevertheless, you can be sure that the non-assholes are hoping for a
solution.

~~~
morgante
Agreed, Sadly I think this movement is doomed to go the same way as Occupy.

Sometimes I wonder if these kooks are hired by the real plutocrats and
parasites (ex. real estate developers) to undermine the movement. Or if it's
not just one giant surrealist joke.

~~~
bstrand
Never underestimate the left's propensity to defeat themselves from the inside
out, to choose a personal sense of moral and/or ideological superiority over
coalition building and meaningful progress. Especially in the SF Bay area.

------
Bluestrike2
What these people really want is for all of the "other people" to go away.
That's the only way you could ever see housing prices in SF go down given the
current market circumstances. You have a city that's surrounded by water, a
convoluted regulatory environment that actively depresses development
activity, and a total unwillingness to build vertically.

In the long-term, either the people leave, the water somehow disappears, or
you rewrite city codes and start building vertically. Of the three, only the
lattermost is even feasible.

~~~
trevyn
There was a plan to disappear the water, but don't worry, "we stopped them".

[http://blog.savesfbay.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Bart-
Ad...](http://blog.savesfbay.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Bart-
Ad-1_FINAL.jpg)

------
sologoub
These sentiments aren't new and aren't unique to SF (unfortunately). I haven't
seen such blatant assaults on people in LA, but Santa Monica went through a
similar transformation where it became super desirable relatively quickly,
driving up rents.

There is a law here called TORCA (Tenant Ownership Rights Charter Amendment).
When I first heard the name, it took me a bit to comprehend it, as in my book
"Tenant" and "Ownership" are mutually exclusive and make the term an oxymoron.

But when you learn about how powerful the renter's rights lobby is in SM city
council, you realize that the joke is on the landlords, at least for the life
of the TORCA tenant.

------
LukeB_UK
Isn't this basically harassment?

------
jiggy2011
I'm not from SF (or even the US) so I'm not sure I understand this situation.

Usually people welcome new business opening in their area so long as it's not
something that is polluting, because these businesses can do things like
provide lots of jobs to people across the income/skills spectrum and also
drive investment in local infrastructure and support local organisations and
charities.

In these cases the rising house prices can be a good thing because those who
get positions at the new companies can buy these houses and price increases
protect their investments.

Is the difference that tech companies are only providing small numbers of jobs
to people with specific skills who are brought in from other areas of the
country/the world?

Perhaps also tech companies are only interested in doing good on a global
scale and not starting in their own back yard?

~~~
OafTobark
SF is now the most expensive city to live in, in the US base on a few sources.
While it's true normally growth and new jobs is seen as a good thing, here,
it's specifically the tech sector that is growing with the majority of hires
and wage increase focused entirely on developers mostly.

Imagine if rent goes up 300% or more in the past few years and you work as a
waiter or any other number of non-tech jobs. Increase salaries and demands for
hires in the tech sector would have nothing to do with you nor would you
probably qualify for a job yet you suffer from all the consequences of the
growth and demand happening around you aka your wage is the same but trying to
rent a place now costs several thousands of dollars more than it did 5 years
ago. That's essentially the problem locals who aren't in the tech field are
facing.

~~~
omegaworks
>yet you suffer from all the consequences of the growth and demand happening
around you aka your wage is the same

What would a $15-$17 minimum wage SF look like?

~~~
OafTobark
SF already have the highest minimum wage in the united states. It has it's own
minimum wage as a city compare to the state. That said, even if you increase
to say $20/he, that roughly translate to about $40k/year. Compare that to
where 6-figure salaries are the norm for entry developers (where is was maybe
just $60k for fresh grads a few years back) and you can see the growing
discrepancy. I understand that developers are viewed as providing greater
value this they should be paid more than minimum wage laborers but that
doesn't change the situation with housing costs for both buying and selling.
In some cases a two bedroom place these days can go average around 3-4k for a
decent place in a decent neighborhood.

------
dkasper
Here's the source post from the protest organizers
[http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2014/04/06/18753651.php](http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2014/04/06/18753651.php)

------
rayiner
Vis-à-vis Wall Street's dalliance with the left coast: this is what you get
for dating crazy.

------
mikelat
Are they aware that if the techies leave, the demand for their jobs like
making coffee and mopping floors will drastically decrease?

These are not very forward thinking people.

------
jkelsey
Not that intimidation or vilification of gentrifiers is acceptable (it's not),
but I'm a bit surprised how just how simply that most people here brush off
the problems that the so-called 'anti-tech' crowd are complaining about. We
consider ourselves such great problem solvers, but I don't see anyone in
software solving the housing problem in our major cities. Admittedly, it's a
hard fucking problem and some of the people who would dare suggest that it's
easily solvable aren't taking any of this seriously. Building codes, while
imperfect and prone to abuse by corrupt politicians and business people, do
exist for reason (especially in earthquake-prone SF and LA). If it were such a
easily problem as some people suggest, it would have been solved and monetized
by now.

Everybody loves when their community gets all the amenities that pop up when
people with more money move in, but then what's the point when you're being
forced out a year later when your rent or property taxes explode? That shit
sucks.

My intention isn't to attack and start a conflict here. I would hope that
maybe we could start taking the problem more seriously and maybe start
thinking harder about how to actually solve the housing problem. It's a little
more complex than just sitting around wishing that our current pay-to-play
political system will all of the sudden magically grow a absolutist moral
center and fix zoning laws and building codes.

------
dengnan
A little bit off topic, but related to the rents in SF: I've been to San
Francisco and the first impression to me is that as a city with large
population, why there's so little high-rise buildings? Is there any law which
limits the buildings' height?

------
stretchwithme
Fluctuations in property values, and thus rents, are driven by Federal Reserve
policy. These problems are created in Washington and real estate lobbying is
more to blame.

That lobby has promoted, and our leaders have accepted, the notion that
recoveries are led by the housing market. They believe consumption, not
production, is the source of prosperity.

Its all designed, they say, to help the little people. But its the little
people that are abused the most by these policies.

Yes, asset prices and thus rents ought to be stable and increase in a
predictable way. These rapid rent increases compel people to buy (assuming
they can), only to set them up for the next crash in real estate prices.

Overall, we don't benefit from these bubbles. Some get lucky for owning when
they start and others get unlucky for owning when they collapse.

But those charging 6% on every transaction profit more when people buy and
sell more. And bubbles are great for causing lots of transactions.

~~~
dragontamer
What the hell does Washington have to do with local zoning laws?

San Francisco is a densely populated city with very little land. However,
buildings taller than 4-stories are outlawed. If a couple of 20+ floor
apartment complexes are built, you can be rest assured that the more typical /
mundane housing will become available for the rest of the citizens.

SF needs more housing, period. _Local_ laws are what is screwing the pooch on
this one.

~~~
stretchwithme
Its things like QE2 that are creating demand for real estate. The tech boom is
driven by venture capital, which is driven by cheap money. And real estate is
financed by it as well.

Making it easier to build would help too, of course. But building HAS been
going on. Isn't Rincon Hill 50 stories tall? Did zoning prevent it?

~~~
cromwellian
The techboom was happening long before QE2, QE1, or the 2008 crisis. In case
you haven't noticed, Google's been around since 1998, founded near the tail
end of the previous tech boom. They didn't suddenly hire all of these Googlers
in 2008, Twitter, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, etc have been hiring like crazy for
a long time.

I dunno, call me crazy, but maybe this time, it's time to let go of the
libertarian 'gubmint did it' angle and admit that natural booms exist.

~~~
stretchwithme
Natural booms do exist. Technology booms do occur. I'm not arguing that they
don't. What I argue is that expansion of the money supply exaggerates
unnecessarily and causes other damaging distortions.

Government is the use of force. It makes sense that it is sometimes damaging
to distort economic choices. Moreover, there is little proof that all the
interference has any benefit. Usually, they benefit a tiny group of well-
connected individuals, with the rest of us paying the costs.

~~~
cromwellian
Well, another way of looking at the excesses of the market is that the rest of
the world had a glut of savings, while America had a huge trade deficit and a
lack of saving, so this naturally dictates a capital account surplus/net
capital inflow.

People in Europe and Asia have to put their money somewhere, and if the US is
generating higher returns for less risk, they're going to go there, for either
safety or opportunity. So if you have a huge influx of funds hungry for
American assets, it is no surprise you see asset price inflation, as well as
cheap, easy money.

You could argue that perhaps, if it weren't for the fact that the US dollar is
the world's reserve currency, we wouldn't be able to print dollars and run a
trade deficit, and foreigners would never be storing up huge amounts of
dollars to reinvest or loan to the US, but you could just as easily argue that
raising taxes would increase national savings and reduce the trade deficit.

~~~
stretchwithme
Yes, there is a net capital inflow. If you're building a lot of oversized
houses and financing a trillion dollar annual budget, you need to import
everybody else's savings. I don't think financing these unsustainable things
will be a good investment in the long run.

------
mason240
It's interesting that this got flagged off the front page. At least I assume
it was flagged off, as there are several stories on the front page right now
that older and with less votes.

------
BashiBazouk
I wonder about these folks. Are they the gays, hippies, yuppies, and beatniks
or the children thereof that changed San Francisco to the chagrin of the
previous generation?

------
ColinWright
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7542197](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7542197)

~~~
quaunaut
Lets see, it's an article about how tech workers are being targeted because of
high earning potential by anarchist service workers, who in the past have
harassed other employees of Google and anyone else who is part of the SF
tech/startup scene.

Which in turn, becomes a place to discuss whether their complaints are valid,
and either way, what courses of action might be taken.

~~~
ColinWright
Yes, it's clearly of great interest to people here on HN, and people who are
part of the SF tech/startup scene.

------
WWLink
Guess the nerds aren't allowed to get a break from the bullying as adults
either huh.

------
thrillgore
Do they honestly think idle threats will lead to anything apropos of anything
the opposite of nothing?

------
dobbsbob
This is what scientologists do, harass your neighbours with flyers carefully
worded as to avoid libel and post them all over the neighborhood. Pretty weak
resorting to Scilon tactics

~~~
Hemospectrum
Such methods are despicable in and of themselves, not for being associated
with a particular faction. If that was how it worked, Germany would have
outlawed vegetarian diets, art school, mustaches, and pants.

------
Bluestrike2
Nice to see that crazy hasn't disappeared.

------
jonny_eh
So making jobs makes you a parasite?

~~~
baddox
The movement seems to have been appropriated or at inspired by people claiming
to be anti-capitalism anarchists. In that idealogy, the very existence of jobs
is considered parasitic. Wage labor, which they call "wage slavery," is seen
as inherently exploitative. They aren't just against high paid jobs in the
technology sector, they're against the very idea of division of labor and
capitalism.

------
dragontamer
And yet, it is the "Rich who wage war on the poor".

Granted, this is San Francisco. They've always been a roudy bunch over there.
But this kind of behavior negatively looks upon the "99%". (or more
specifically, the activists who claim to be the 99%).

Gendrification happens all across the country, and the renting-class poor are
forced to move out of neighborhoods as they get more expensive. But only in
San Francisco does gendrification seem to be so painful...

------
spacemanmatt
Well, is he?

------
steele
He is alone in his battle with their neighborhood raccoon problem.

------
stefan_kendall3
Inspired enough to protest individuals, but not enough to learn the skills
needed to be paid the 4x wages they cite the parasites move to SF for.

Imagine if all that rage time was spent learning rails and mobile development.

~~~
ajkjk
This pains me to read. Are you really so convinced that the techie crowd got
ahead from its own savvy and motivation and everyone else is too lazy to do
so?

There's nothing like writing off huge swathes of people based on an utterly
distorted view of reality.

~~~
clavalle
>...convinced that the techie crowd got ahead from its own savvy and
motivation..

As opposed to what?

~~~
troels
Lucky timing?

~~~
clavalle
Seems like saavy and motivation are both key ingredients for 'lucky timing'.

------
ForHackernews
Isn't Kevin Rose that guy who killed Digg?

~~~
sharth
He's probably most well known as one of the founders of Digg.

