
Ask HN: I am a startup CTO, do I need Internet at home?  - anonStartupCTO
I am a startup CTO. I feel I get enough internet at work, and appreciate the lack of internet at home for the decompression time it gives me.<p>Recently, my CEO has been pressuring me to get (and pay for) internet at home so I can support our fledgling site during all hours of the day (and night).<p>Some background:<p>* We have 500K users. Consumer-Focused.<p>* We raised a $1MM A round 1.5 years ago. The money is almost gone. We are trying to hit profitability in the next few months.<p>* The site has some uptime problems. (think 97% - 98% uptime).  I am working dilligently to fix them during work hours.<p>* We are a small team. 5 members. 3 F/T, 2 P/T.<p>* I am a minor co-founder at this company. I have 5% equity. The other two co-founders are non-technical.<p>* I am the only team member with any expertise in scaling or systems.<p>* I am stretching to make ends meet financially (we're aiming for ramen-profitability), and another $50-60 / mo is not a desired expense.<p>* I live in NYC and move around a lot, so a 1-yr contract with Time Warner is undesired.<p>Should I get internet at home?  Should I be expected to pay for it?
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starkfist
Yes, you should have the internet at home if you are the CTO and the only team
member with expertise in scaling or systems.

But you shouldn't be the 5% equity CTO who is responsible for the scaling with
two non-technical co-founders in the first place. Especially if you are a guy
who likes to be away from the internet.

Make the company pay for it.

Personally, I agree with your viewpoint and am not having internet at home
when I move into my next apartment. But I am also not the CTO of a startup.

Also, I feel the need to say "A startup with two business guys and a CTO who
hates the internet: 'Only in New York...'"

~~~
anonStartupCTO
While I suspect your comment to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I feel the need
to be clear about this: I do not 'hate' the internet. In fact, I love it. In
small doses. While it allows me to run operations efficiently while in the
office, I find it to be a horrendous time waster during my personal time.

------
mgkimsal
I'm mildly shocked that someone gets the title of CTO these days and _doesn't_
have home internet access.

As someone else mentioned, you'd be getting it for work, so it's tax
deductible.

Obviously we don't know your situation, but if I had system problems that were
continually causing 2-3% downtime, I'd be working all hours of the day (and
night) to fix it so that I don't have to stretch out the fix to an even longer
period of time. I realize that's probably not _all_ you're doing at work, but
this sounds a bit like putting off stuff that's not fun. Plow in, head down,
get it _done_ so that issue (or those issues) don't cause you any more late
nights.

That said, you also sound a bit unsure of the future - not much money left,
trying to become profitable, etc. Are you looking for another position? If so,
I would expect most _other_ orgs would expect 'internet at home' from a CTO -
especially one with an equity stake (however small).

~~~
davidw
> I'm mildly shocked that someone gets the title of CTO these days and doesn't
> have home internet access.

To me it's like asking if you should go ahead and get running water and
electricity:-)

~~~
anonStartupCTO
for the record, i have those =)

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frossie
Okay, I realise we are reeling with the whole "What? This person doesn't want
Internet at home??", but let's forget about the internet thing.

The issue is, as I understand it, that you don't want to be on call 24/7. So
the decision tree seems fairly simple:

A. Do you need someone on call 24/7 (i.e. is the difference between 97% and
100% uptime significant in your business)

B. Can somebody else be your out-of-ours support person?

If the answer is Yes and No, you are stuck. Get the Internet already.

If you have trouble evaluating A, go to your users. Ask "would you like
feature X or better uptime?" (Never ask an open question like "would you like
more uptime", as that doesn't allow you to establish its value - what idiot
would say no?)

If your users require better uptime AND you cannot find someone to provide it
AND switching off at home is important to your sanity, you need another job.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
> A. Do you need someone on call 24/7 (i.e. is the difference between 97% and
> 100% uptime significant in your business) Yes > B. Can somebody else be your
> out-of-ours support person? No.

The issue is not that I mind being on call when things are broken. The issue
is that they want me to pay my own way in order to be on call. It's insulting.

~~~
frossie
_The issue is that they want me to pay my own way in order to be on call._

Ah. Well in a salaried world I would say fair enough (my organisation pays for
phone and internet connections for on-call staff).

In a startup world... I don't know. But either way, I don't think there's any
point in feeling insulted. It's just a matter of fact issue of "I choose not
to spend money for an Internet connection. If the company pays for it, I will
do my best to attend after-hour calls". No point bringing emotions into it.

But you know, if you have a stake in this company succeeding and if the
company has no money... if it was me, there are definitely circumstances in
which I would pay for it.

~~~
petervandijck
Feeling insulted has its place :) It can make it more easy for you to demand
respect when its lacking, or take action somehow.

------
uptown
You're the CTO of a company with half a million users during a make it or
break it profitability period of the next few months and you're wondering if
you need to be able to login to work from home? Unless you're able to get
reliable access using a neighbor's connection, or are able to be in the office
within 5 minutes, then yes. You need a home connection.

By the way, TimeWarner in NYC doesn't lock you in with a contract, so you can
go month to month.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Thanks. I think almost everyone I've spoken to agrees (as do I) that I need
internet. Any input on who should foot the bill?

------
donohoe
If by having internet access at home means helping your financial future then
Yes.

If you're concerned by a 1 year contract to TW then you've got commitment
problems :) However what about going with a cell plan and tethering? of
Verizon mifi?

If you use the internet at home primarily for work purposes you can deduct it
from taxes. Not a huge saving but it helps. In addition if you do work form
home you can deduct part of your rent or mortgage based on the space occupied.

Hope that helps

~~~
anonStartupCTO
It does help. Thank you.

To get to the thrust of my question: I feel taken advantage of that my co-
founders are expecting me to get internet at home for work-purposes, while
expecting that I'll be paying for it personally. I understand I am the CTO,
and that creates some level of expectation that I have internet at home. But,
at the end of the day, we're a funded company, and I feel they should pay for
it if they feel that strongly about it. After all, when they want to go out to
dinner to schmooze investors (as you would expect from a CEO), the company
pays.

~~~
pvdm
I suspect there is some underlying issue that you are not divulging. Do you
get along with the founders ? Are you comfortable asking them to pay for the
internet ? Do you feel you are being treated unfairly ? Talk these things out
with them. Posting on HN is sort of a passive-aggressive way of dealing with
the issue. Whether you should get internet at home is not the crux of your
problem.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Thanks for the input.

Yes, I get along with the other founders. Yes, I've asked them to pay for it.
And yes, they've declined. We're sort of at a deadlock.

I posted on HN so I could get input from other hackers. I don't feel that I
should air my dirty laundry in public (hence the anonymity)

------
charliepark
Because your uptime is spotty, you absolutely should have some means of
restarting the site back up if the servers fall over. If I were your investor,
I'd want to know that _somebody_ was responsible for making sure the site's
up.

At the same time, I'm sympathetic to your cashflow situation. Even with the
tax deduction at the end of the year, that doesn't affect your monthly bills
right now.

What I would do would be to set some objective metric for uptime that you and
your cofounders agree upon. Until you get to that point, you cover the
internet. Once you hit that point, the company covers the cost. I recognize
that this is inverse of the actual work/money relationship (arguably, the
company would be paying for the time when you need to have access to the site
to get it going again), but I think the incentive is pretty clear that you
want to get your uptime rock solid ASAP, and I think it aligns your objectives
with the company's objectives.

------
InclinedPlane
Yes.

You should probably own your own personal computer as well.

That'll require electricity, so you might want to get that installed ASAP.

Is this serious?

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Excuse me, the attitude is not needed.

If you have a helpful suggestion for my situation, I'd be happy to hear it. Do
you feel that I should be supplying my own computer? Should the company pay
for my internet?

~~~
uptown
Wow. If I was a shareholder in your company, I'd be terrified.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
why is that?

------
ScottWhigham
_Should I get internet at home? Should I be expected to pay for it?_

You should get the same thing the co-founders get. If they pay for theirs at
home, so should you. If you were not a significant equity holder then I'd
argue that the company should pay if you were doing company work.

It isn't more/less important for the CTO to be online than the CEO for a web-
based business IMO; both roles need to have available internet connection
24/7.

------
Travis
I think you should _want_ to be accessible at home. You're part of a startup
-- it's a lifestyle. And it's hard. How much would it cost your company if
something died at 5:01PM, and you couldn't fix it for 16 hours? Would you feel
perfectly fine in telling them, "sorry, I wasn't on duty so I fixed it when I
got in"?

And 100% the company should pay for it. 110%, actually.

------
brk
Yes, absolutely. I'm honestly surprised it's even up for consideration given
your situation.

The Internet is the 4th (or 5th, depending on how you look at it) Utility
(Water, Gas, Electric, Internet, Phone). I think it's a safe and fair
assumption that an employee (especially a tech employee in a small startup) be
able have some kind of access to the Internet.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Thanks for your input. I see that side of things too, though I am not entirely
convinced of the implication that because I am an employee of a tech company,
I need internet (at my own expense).

I'm curious if you could articulate that implication here?

~~~
starkfist
It's implied because unless you live in poverty or are 85 years or older, it's
kind of weird to not have the internet at home, whether or not you're the CTO
of a tech company.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Okay, well then I guess I'm 'weird'. I studied computer science in school, so
I can deal with that =)

------
jasonlbaptiste
Yes, without a doubt. Shit will happen and you need to be able to get on it
immediately. Odds are getting to the office would take too long. I definitely
understand the need for downtime. It's crucial. I'd try to find some way to
close off the computer, so you only access it when YOU need it.

------
damoncali
Sounds like your issue may be more about your ownership percentage than your
internet access. Have a chat with the founders. Sounds like they need you more
than you need them at this point.

But yeah, you should have internet at home, and you shouldn't expect your
company to pay for it.

~~~
olefoo
I think you hit the nail on the head; anonymous CTO seems to have some
commitment issues, and doesn't seem to realize that a site that's having
unscheduled downtime of 3 or more hours a week is going to feel flaky (that's
98% uptime folks), and that it's his responsibility to take care of it.
Battling over internet at his home is a proxy for his other frustrations with
the startup. But yeah, expecting the CTO to have internet access at home, and
to be able to keep the effing site UP for customers isn't out of line for a
startup.

My take, this venture is over; it's done, once team members are taking petty
office grievances public like this, there is no team anymore.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
I think you're right that there are some deeper issues here, and no one is
doubting that the issues with the uptime need to get fixed ASAP, but I
disagree with your notion that because I am taking my grievances public, the
venture is over. There is a reason I am anonymous: I want to get feedback from
other hackers, not throw my co-founders under a bus.

~~~
olefoo
You've provided enough details that one of your cofounders or investors could
certainly recognize themselves in your posting. How do you think they would
react to this?

How would you react if your CEO posted something along the lines of

"""How do I deal with a technical cofounder who refuses to do his job? We're
in a critical period, our site goes down more often than twitter and my
partner and I are out there everyday making sales but the guy we brought on
board to build the site doesn't seem to understand how critical it is; he
doesn't even want to shell out for internet so he can fix the site when it
goes down out of hours."""

I'm guessing you would not be pleased to be pilloried like that , even
anonymously. It would have been one thing if you'd turned to a mentor for
advice, but by putting it up on HN you have created a situation that will turn
what is already a tense situation with your cofounders into open war should it
be discovered.

And really, my sympathy is limited. If your site is crashing or failing
regularly, then you should be fixing that instead of hanging out on HN looking
for validation of your hurt feelings.

------
waivej
How quickly can an issue be resolved if you are at home and something breaks?
Is there a neighbor with free wifi? Do you have monitoring software that
notifies you somehow? Is anyone else "on call"?

If all is going well at work and you aren't the one "on call" for outages,
then maybe not. However, 97-98% uptime with 500,000 users sounds like a
critical time in your company's growth. Are you taking any heat for the uptime
issue?

Who pays for it is a tough question. If it's for the good of the company, then
I think they should. But, as CTO, I would look out for the company's best
interest even if they are feeling cheap. In that case, what's the lowest
cost/term way that you can cover the bases?

------
dutchrapley
<http://www.virginmobileusa.com/mobile-broadband>

It's mobile broadband without the commitment since it's Virgin Mobile (it runs
on Sprint's network).

Plans are $20, $40, and $60 for 30 days access. You can always buy the usb
stick, and then purchase connectivity only when you need it, with no monthly
commitment.

If you want a mobile hotspot - may I also suggest this for plugging in the
Virgin Mobile Broadband2Go USB stick.

[http://www.amazon.com/Cradlepoint-PHS300-Personal-Hotspot-
Bl...](http://www.amazon.com/Cradlepoint-PHS300-Personal-Hotspot-
Black/dp/B001212ELY/)

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Thanks. Do you have any experience with any of those products? Good / Bad ?

~~~
dutchrapley
Not personally. I have a couple of friends who have used that combination
specifically. Not as a primary, but for vacation or if they happen to be in a
coffee shop with an unreliable connection. If I were in the situation where I
needed something in a pinch, that's what I would start with. Granted, you
still have to drop $200 up front just for the equipment.

------
uptown
I think your bigger problem is that you seem to be in the "me versus them"
mindset when you define the fact that Internet access will come at your own
expense. In a startup of five, with only three permanents, I'm sure you've
been asked to make all sorts of sacrifices.

If $40/month, or about $1 a day is really causing strife between you and YOUR
company ... not your employer, but YOUR company, then maybe it's the job and
not the access expectations that are the bigger problem.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Right. I feel the need to add that it's not all "us vs. them" in the day-to-
day, but the subject of this post is a negotiation between me and them, hence
the 'us vs. them' demeanor in some of my comments.

I think you're right to question whether the $40/month is the real issue. I am
questioning myself whether I want to be on a team whose non-technical leaders
(I feel) do not respect their technical team members.

------
cjus
Sounds like the company is dying which explains why they don't want to pay for
your Internet access. Regardless, you'll need Internet access to find your
next gig.

------
joshbert
Yes, you do need Internet at home. It'll come handy, especially since you're
at a key time in the progress of the company. However, 5% doesn't seem exactly
as a fair deal to me. I know it's OT, but maybe you should consider
negotiating your terms and equity in the company, even more so since you're
the one taking care of the systems and scalability.

Also, everyone needs a little decomposing time, so cheers on that initial part
of your post.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Thanks. I don't know how much luck I'll have negotiating terms this far into
the venture, but I suppose it's worth mentioning.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Spoke to my partners and we have a discussion scheduled for first thing
Monday. Thanks for the input.

~~~
joshbert
You're most welcome. Good luck!

------
andymoe
If you live in NYC I'm sure you can find somewhere nearby with free wifi in an
emergency. If you don't want a one year contract why don't you get the company
to sign up for a verizon wireless card and use that. If they go under it's not
you holding the bag.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Yeah. I'm basically getting by by 'borrow'ing wifi from a cafe that's
downstairs. Their signal is unreliable at best, though.

I'd love it if the company got a wifi card for whoever is on call. Both
parties are refusing to foot the bill though.

~~~
starkfist
Why are they refusing to foot the bill if they have $1M? It's only like $60/m.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
We're almost out of money. 3 or 4 months runway left.

~~~
starkfist
You can get a virgin mobile prepay mifi for $150 + $10/m basic plan at best
buy in union square.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Thanks. $10 for 100MB, $60 for 5GB is not a bad deal!

------
coryl
What kind of living space do you have? Sharing a connection with neighbors in
apartments is pretty common over wireless, just watch your consumption and
split the bill. I suppose you could do that even in houses.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
An apartment. Don't know the neighbors.

That may be a good compromise though. Thanks for the suggestion.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
tried some of my neighbors. no luck :(. might be a function of the
neighborhood i'm in (which doesn't have many wi-fi signals, maybe because it's
so far from downtown)

------
DaniFong
I use a 3G connection through Millenicom. It hasn't been awesome but it has
supported what was a nomadic lifestyle for a time.

It's not always on. You have to turn it on. This has been a big timesaver for
me. YMMV.

------
apower
How can you burn through $1M in 18 months with 3 F/T and 2P/T? The two non-
tech co-founders taking $300K each?

~~~
starkfist
If the total cost of having an employee is $100K/yr, it's $600K for the
equivalent of 4 employees for 18 months. Add in any server costs, legal fees,
various petty expenditures. He says they've got 3-4 months left. Sounds about
right.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
yeah, you're right. it all adds up (server costs, legal fees, marekting,
etc..)

------
staunch
You should be able to get a month-to-month contract by paying an extra
$10-$15/mo.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
We have iPhones (which the company pays for), and with iOS4, tethering is only
$20 more / month.

Though the idea of giving AT&T any more money makes me grumpy, that may be an
explorable option.

~~~
starkfist
BTW when I first moved to NYC, I used to do this with the tethering hack and
it works pretty well.

------
justinchen
Seems simple to me. If they're asking you to get it, they should pay for it.

~~~
anonStartupCTO
Do you think the fact that I'm CTO implies that I should just ~already have
it~?

~~~
justinchen
Nope. If they hired you as CTO before you had it then I don't see why it
should be a factor in your technicalness or ability to do your work.

