
Mojang vs. Bethesda Scrolls Case Heads to Court - Impossible
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37478/Mojang_Really_Silly_Bethesda_Scrolls_Case_Heads_To_Court.php
======
redthrowaway
This seems like a really ill-conceived play on bethsoft's part. A month before
the release of their biggest title in years, and they want to piss off gamers
by suing someone universally loved by them? Why? What possible good could come
of this for them? I would have thought the initial reaction to the story would
have caused them to rethink their strategy, but they don't seem to care.

~~~
radu_floricica
There is no such thing as bad publicity. And this one is really cheap. How
else would I find out on HN that they're launching next month?

~~~
redthrowaway
Bethesda doesn't need _this_ kind of publicity; they're one of the biggest and
most successful studios this side of EA or Activision. Skyrim has been hotly
anticipated (and its release date announced) for about a year, now. I can see
this having a minor effect on Skyrim sales, but I certainly can't see it
having a positive one.

------
Zimahl
Remember, this isn't just about Mojang naming their game 'Scrolls', this is
about them doing that AND applying for a trademark on the name 'Scrolls' for
video games.

If this was just about the name of a game then it wouldn't be much of an
issue, Bethesda could just cover their TM by licensing it to them for how
little or much they wanted to. But Mojang wants their own TM (to subjugate
others) and that's where the lawyers are getting huffy.

Frankly, I think he should just change the name of his game. Life is too short
to deal with the headache and pay a bunch of lawyers to argue over this junk.
'Scrolls' doesn't seem like a great name anyways.

Disclaimer: I love Minecraft and play it regularly, but I'm not interested in
card-type strategy games. Therefore I won't probably even try a demo of
'Scrolls' (or whatever it ends up being called).

~~~
Zodiakos
>But Mojang wants their own TM (to subjugate others)

I'm not sure that the parenthetical remark is really warranted, since there
are many other reasons to want a trademark, nearly all of them more useful
than 'subjugating others'. Such as to prevent someone making sure that someone
doesn't make a game called 'Scrolls: The Elders' - Basically, to prevent
someone riding on the coattails of your success by riding your product brand
name or dragging your brand into the mud with an inferior but confusingly
similarly named product. The name Scrolls is neither of those things, which is
why Bethesda is in the wrong here - both ethically, and most likely legally. I
guess we'll see.

------
joebadmo
I guess the Quake 3 match fell through. Too bad.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2895491>

------
andrewingram
Forgive me if I've misunderstood trademarks. But aren't Bethesda, as trademark
holders, required to defend that trademark or risk losing it?

I don't agree that a trademark on Elder Scrolls should cover just Scrolls, but
it might just be a case of a legal department going through the motions.

~~~
Dylan16807
They have to defend the trademark itself, yes. But not things that aren't all
that similar.

~~~
cube13
From what I've heard, Scrolls is a fantasy... something(could be turn based
strategy, role playing, or something completely else) game currently in
development by Mojang. The Elder Scrolls is a series of fantasy role playing
games developed by Bathesda.

Bathesda's lawyers probably felt that the two titles are similar enough in
either gameplay style or genre that it could be infringement. Unfortunately,
there isn't any other way of resolving this than suing the people you believe
are infringing on your trademark.

~~~
uxp
The unfortunate side effect is that Scrolls (the parchment containing objects)
are a deprecated technology. The only time We get to use them anymore is in a
fantasy setting.

I really don't understand how they can reasonably expect to own the trademark
on a word that is only a portion of their actual product line and describes an
object that has been known to exist for thousands of years. Microsoft was
denied the trademark for "Windows", but they were given trademarks for the
phrases "Windows XP Operating System", etc.

~~~
cube13
The trademark doesn't prevent you from having in-game objects called
"Scrolls". I can only(if Bathesda wins the suit, which I think is unlikely)
prevent you from creating a fantasy video game called "Scrolls".

Also, MS does have a registered trademark for
"Windows"([http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualPrope...](http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/EN-
US.aspx)), but this is only for computer operating systems, not for physical
building windows.

------
Shenglong
I was going to write a satirical comment pointing out how ridiculous this is,
but I can't come up with anything that even semi-serious. Bethesda needs a PR
team.

------
markokocic
Given the attention this case got in some communities, it is worth every cent
they are going to spend in court, regardless of the winner.

This particular case seems like good PR for both parties.

~~~
gte910h
While people love ES games, they don't particularly have love for Bethesda
(hell, they're the people who made the horse armor which is the standard
example of stupid DLC).

On the other hand, people love Notch and Mojang...

I could see this pushing people on the fence away from buying skyrim (as it is
for me; I'd probably not have time to play anyhow, but it's also supporting a
bit too much in the way of crazy here).

------
parfe
Worst case Mojang changes the name of an unreleased game (that I hadn't heard
about until now).

Bethseda on the other hand looks to be trying to beat up on the little guy.
After Oblivian's "Too bad you leveled wrong. No stat points for you."
character system, the next elder scrolls already lacked appeal. This case
certainly won't help.

~~~
dkersten
_"Too bad you leveled wrong. No stat points for you."_

Meh, leveling was pointless anyway because when you leveled up, so did the
enemy. I hear the next game is keeping this mechanic, so its lost its appeal
to me too.

Regarding this case: I have never ever heard of the elder scrolls games
referred to as _scrolls_. Its either _The Elder Scrolls_ or its _Oblivion_ or
_Morrowind_ or whatever.

~~~
parfe
>Meh, leveling was pointless anyway because when you leveled up, so did the
enemy.

Yes, but if you didn't also increase other skills you would only get +2 or +3s
for your stats rather than the max of +5s to three stat groups.

So the enemy hits lvl 20 just like you do, but you are much weaker as you've
inefficiency leveled.

~~~
eavc
Which meant that unless you optimized your progress, leveling was counter-
productive.

Enter the difficulty slider. Both mechanics made the game silly to me in later
stages, and I never finished.

------
dustingetz
i'm sure the suit is ridiculous and all, but why exactly does the Scrolls team
think that defending this suit is in their business interests?

------
nknight
I'd find a lawsuit over "Minecraft" at least as plausible as this nonsense.
That the ActiLizzard has managed to keep _its_ lawyers caged does not reflect
well on Bethesda.

------
jakelear
I can definitely understand how the masses would side with Mojang on this one.
Big media corp vs small indie self-made studio, etc.

However, not knowing all that much about "Scrolls," I feel like Bethesda
(Zenimax) has a good argument here. The only artwork I've seen from scrolls
depicts Fantasy-style characters in leather and metal armor. From what I
understand, it's some sort of card game, but that's not obvious from the at-a-
glance view, and I think there could be some confusion among those unfamiliar
with the two games in question.

Any major trademark holder has to actively protect their copyright/trademark
and I feel like this, though perhaps unfortunate, is a pretty standard legal
practice.

~~~
cbs
>I think there could be some confusion among those unfamiliar with the two
games in question.

Probably has nothing to do with the name; both scrolls (the objects) and
Fantasy-style characters in leather and metal armor are incredibly common
video game tropes.

------
dangero
Mojang has money, so no matter what this won't hurt him, but unless he's doing
this for the publicity, he's making the wrong choice. Change the name of your
unreleased game. Not that big a deal, and you'll save a lot of lawyer fees.
Pick your battles. Of course, that is if he isn't attempting to use this as a
publicity stunt. As some people mentioned, Mojang's project wasn't that well
known prior to this incident.

------
rkalla
I understand that it is cool to root for the little guy, but with $20 million
in the bank[1] and something like 20 employees (I am trying to remember from
the docu about them), Markus isn't a guy sitting in his dorm room trying to
hack his way to future success, and as andrewingram pointed out, if Bethesda
doesn't defend their claim on the "Elder Scrolls" name, they can lose it.

I would _not_ find it that unreasonable to think that ES fans likely refer to
the game as "Scrolls" and not "Elder" when discussing it online, nor that in
RPG groups if a year ago you said "Have you played Scrolls?" most people would
realize you were talking about ES.

This seems reasonable to me... like if I created a new game called "Warcraft"
that let you build siege weapons and launch attacks against castles filled
with orcs. I would fully expect Blizzard to come after me.

It isn't like they named the game "Frostraven Scrolls" or something clearly
different.

Just my 2 cents. Just communicating the fact that I am not weeping in agony
for Mojang and their poor plight.

[1] [http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-
discussi...](http://www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-
forum/314675-turning-something-you-did-free-into-millions.html)

~~~
sharpneli
I have a strong hunch that the response to "Have you played Scrolls?" would be
"What?" "You know, Oblivion/Morrowind/Daggerfall" (choose the right one) "Oh
yeah I've played that, maybe bit too much."

~~~
rkalla
That's a good point... maybe my prompting question was wrong. "Are you
familiar with Scrolls lore" or "Scrolls style of play?" or "Do you like the
Scrolls games?" maybe better options so they are grouped.

~~~
redthrowaway
As others have said, nobody _ever_ refers to them like that. They might say,
"did you like Oblivion", or, if they're gamers hanging out in a gaming-
specific forum, "are you a fan of TES?" Never, ever, have I heard anyone refer
to the games as "Scrolls". It's simple not done. In the same vein, you would
never refer to gcc as "collection".

~~~
Natsu
Same here. Calling it just "scrolls" sounds horribly wrong and I've done a lot
of gaming. I can't imagine being confused by this.

I think this is a total waste of money and wish they'd taken Mojang up on that
offer to play a game for it.

Can anyone point to any comment, prior to this lawsuit nonsense, where someone
actually referred to any game or the series as just "scrolls"? In all the
comments over this, not one person has done that. And it's a huge internet, so
someone, somewhere has probably done that. But everyone I know will say Elder
Scrolls or ES or TES or Morrowind or what have you.

