
Mast Brothers obscure the fact that they originally used remelted chocolate - samsolomon
http://qz.com/571151/the-mast-brothers-fooled-the-world-into-buying-crappy-hipster-chocolate-for-10-a-bar/
======
brudgers
The original four part expose', _What lies behind the beards_ from the world
of choclate:

1\. [http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-
behind...](http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-behind-the-
beards-part-1-tastetexture/)

2\. [http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-
behind...](http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-behind-the-
beards-part-2-equipment/)

3\. [http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-
behind...](http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-behind-the-
beards-part-3-ingredients/)

4\. [http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-
behind...](http://dallasfood.org/2015/12/mast-brothers-what-lies-behind-the-
beards-confessions/)

------
JasonCEC
My company[0] has been considering a verification service to check on origin
and sourcing claims using flavor signatures in "craft" products.

Currently, all of our tools are used by beverage producers (beer, coffee,
spirits) internally for quality and process optimization - it would be great
to apply our models and create a subscription reporting and claim
verification.

[0] www.Gastrograph.com

Edit: clarity and repetition.

Also, Any ideas? What would you like to see in a service like this?

~~~
lobster_johnson
Would definitely love to have a web site where I can go and look up a no-
nonsense report on the quality and truthfulness of "artisanal" brands.

~~~
evanlivingston
I'm curious how another entity could establish quality of something better
than you could yourself?

~~~
dv_says
Independent verification.

For example, this could have helped in [1][2][3] where toxic food products
were very mislabeled.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil)

[3]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Taiwan_food_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Taiwan_food_scandal)

~~~
evanlivingston
I guess I was interested in distinguishing between quality and safety.

------
spilk
This is an extremely common practice in the new booming "artisanal" whiskey
business. Many of them come from a factory distillery in Indiana (MGP) and the
profits from selling the factory stuff are used to build up a more "authentic"
distillery operation.

~~~
tptacek
Yes. Pretty much every instinct you have for selecting the highest-quality
products go out the window in whiskeyworld; almost across the board, the very
best offerings are from well-known giant companies, and "artisanal" vendors
struggle to asymptotically approach that quality.

It's basically the polar opposite of the craft beer market.

~~~
Gibbon1
This totally reminds me of another 'scandal' maybe 10 years ago. Basically
same thing. Snippets I remember from an industry insider was.

1\. Making consistent batches of high quality chocolate is really hard. And
there are only a small number of companies that do that.

2\. There absolutely nothing wrong with a company buying chocolate from one of
the above and gussying it up by adding ingredients and remolding it. This is
called a Chocolatier.

3\. There is something wrong with claiming you are making chocolate from
scratch. Because seriously you aren't

~~~
shalmanese
That would be the Noka scandal, reported by the same Dallas Food blog that's
behind the Mast allegations. Dallas Food does some seriously impressive
investigative blogging.

------
ridiculous_fish
The 5-part investigation on Noka (linked to from the article) is a really fun
read. You'll learn a bit about how the chocolate industry works, in sort of
the style of a police procedural. Scott is a rad dude for his investigation
and writeup.

[http://dallasfood.org/2006/12/noka-chocolate-
part-1/](http://dallasfood.org/2006/12/noka-chocolate-part-1/)

~~~
cfcef
(Noka isn't the Mast Brothers, in case anyone is confused, but an earlier
boutique chocolate seller who was employing the same basic scam.)

That is an impressively thorough and readable set of posts by Scott. I don't
care that much about chocolate, but it's still a fascinating takedown.

~~~
keithpeter
That is an impressive piece of writing - the link in the grandparent post
about Noka chocolates leads to an article spread over 10 pages of 500 or more
words each, so fairly long form, and I learned a lot about chocolate and the
way good quality bulk chocolate is sold to people who make chocolates.

I'm not into chocolate that much myself, but I might get some single origin
bars for the choco-holics around me. I suspect they might find the lower sugar
/ milk content off-putting...

------
gkop
I was turned on to small batch chocolate by Dandelion in SF. Their bars are $8
and the Madagascar and Tanzania really taste incredible. Will somebody neutral
but in the know confirm Dandelion is the real deal?

Side note: Have we at a meta level concluded that self-identified "small
batch" and "artisanal" products sold at farmers markets in hipsterish
packaging are very highly correlated with "young people that don't really know
what they are doing (are relatively inexperienced), but are good at marketing
and charging a high price"?

~~~
dogma1138
I would go to bet that most "hipster" brands whether it's beer, coffee, or w/e
are pretty much 99% marketing this is how business works.

You can see this in wine tasting allot of the big name wines expensive wines
do not score well in blind wine tastings however in non blind tastings when
people are sold on the story they score remarkably well.

When you spend 200$ on a bottle of wine, 15$ on a bar of chocolate and 20$ on
8 oz. of coffee beans you'll be damn sure to like them even if they are
nothing but average at best.

There is a reason why every "artisan" product comes with a nifty far fetched
story tied to it as that's what you are buying at the end.

~~~
userbinator
Audiophile equipment also follows the same trend. The reluctance to double-
blind testing is a common sign that it isn't actually better, just more
expensive.

~~~
Turing_Machine
Yes. Witness the "audiophiles" who claim that wooden _knobs_ somehow cause the
sound to be better. One outfit was selling these magical knobs for five
hundred bucks or so.

~~~
codeka
I always thought those websites were jokes, right?

Right...?

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
Sadly, no. Before the web, they were (probably still are) being advertised in
magazines.

------
akamaka
It doesn't bother me if they used remelted chocolate, because it's possible to
produce fantastic chocolate bars using ingredients from some of the European
suppliers. If the bars are labeled in a fairly ambiguous way, (for example
simply saying "Madagascar") one shouldn't assume too much about the
ingredients.

That being said, the PR coming out of Mast Brothers is unbelievably arrogant
and off-putting. As a chocolate lover, I was excited to read their cookbook
when I saw it at the bookstore, but I closed it after reading a few pages. The
self-promotion and self-centered attitude was absolutely disgusting,
considering that their product is only average among their peers. Producing
the best chocolate requires deep respect for the bean as well as for the
tastes of the consumer, and my impression is that the quality of their product
will continue to be limited by their attitude.

In the big picture, Mast Brothers is still better than 99% of the chocolate
out there, so I'll still buy it and enjoy from time to time.

~~~
wavefunction
Shouldn't you compare their chocolate against "their peers?" From what I've
read of people more educated and passionate about chocolate their stuff isn't
very good when compared against other "bean to bar" producers. If you know
this and know that they have a well-established history of lying (I don't beat
around the bush) then why support these lying fakers if you can buy better
chocolate from legit operations?

~~~
akamaka
I've had very good bars from Mast Brothers, but I'm in full agreement that
they're not the best.

I think it's important to point out that they are still much better than most,
though. It's common to see people attack the worst of the premium brands while
forgetting that they are still a lot better than most of the cheap
alternatives, like when lovers of organic food complain about Whole Foods. In
the big picture, Mast Brothers is still the good guys when compared to, say,
Nestle.

------
oldmanjay
I get the feeling from the tone that I'm supposed to be taken aback that
overpriced artisanal brands are mostly marketing, but I've known that for
decades now.

Perhaps this is another thing that millennials feel they've invented.

~~~
eyeJam
As someone who is fairly obsessed with cooking and eating good food I've
probably gone deeper into this area than the average consumer. There are
plenty of authentic, "artisanal" (??? I don't even know what the fuck that
means) small-batch food suppliers out there who provide a vastly superior
product. I'm friends with some of these people in my area and they are
obsessed with their craft and obsessed with putting out the best product. It
borderlines on OCD and often leads to a deeply technical knowledge to go along
with their sensory skills. I also know a couple frauds who've adopted the
trappings of an expert and bluff their way to success. Same as any industry.

At the end of the day, most people aren't capable of tasting the difference
anyways. It takes a while to develop the palate required to discern great from
good. Most people eat their daily food quickly and don't really pay attention
to the flavours of the ingredients. They just want something salty, sweet,
crispy and fatty. That sounds condescending but its true and I don't think
there's anything wrong with it. Lots of people let the radio or pitchfork tell
them what music to listen to and don't care enough to expend the time refining
their tastes. Their enjoyment of music is no less valid or real than anyone
else's.

~~~
HeyLaughingBoy
What really bugs me about this (and yes, I realize I probably shouldn't care)
is that the level of skill required to get to within 10% of the really good
stuff is within reach of pretty much anyone. We're all so used to crappy store
bought stuff that anything better gets labelled "artisanal" and sells for
5-10x the price.

Yes, I understand that there are many artists that are masters of their craft
and deserve the respect and their prices. But there is also lots of _crap_
that people pay good money for that tastes awful by any reasonable standard. A
place near me makes these giant cookies that look awesome, but at first bite
you can tell they're made with shortening, not butter. Sorry, but not worth
the $3 price.

But any idiot with $10 can go to the store, buy the ingredients and make a
couple dozen infinitely better tasting cookies by following the recipe on a
bag of Toll House chocolate chips.

I think at the heart of it, what really bothers me is that because so few
people grow up cooking anymore, we've lost touch with how easy it is to make
good tasting food.

Rant off.

------
acomjean
We have a local chocolate company where I live (Boston area). Its mexican
chocolate. They give tours. Chocolate is a odd thing to make. The machinery
was strange. They roast/stone grind beans there.

The chocolate while tasty is remarkably gritty. The bars are decent, but where
they do best is the chocolate covered nuts. They're doing well and their
chocolate is everywhere. I thought it was pricey, but not so much anymore.

They have a video showing some production (including fitting a stone grinder
to modern equipment which is a decent hack)

[https://player.vimeo.com/video/33380451](https://player.vimeo.com/video/33380451)

[http://www.tazachocolate.com/pages/about-
taza](http://www.tazachocolate.com/pages/about-taza)

~~~
rspeer
God, I hate that stuff. I don't understand why everyone is nuts about it. It
tastes to me like spoiled milk mixed into dirt (and I know there's no milk in
it).

The comments surrounding Mast Brothers are making me feel less like my tastes
are wrong. Maybe bean-to-bar small-batch artisanal chocolate just isn't that
good of an idea.

~~~
briandear
Mexican chocolate is a mystery to me as well. I've had it as hot chocolate,
but even then it tastes like chocolatey sand. Mexican Cokes on the other
hand..

------
frogpelt
I don't see why this is such a huge deal.

First, they no longer used remelted chocolate.

Second, Mast Brothers are obviously tapping into the startup/hipster culture
and selling chocolate to people who want to seem crafty and artisanal but
don't care enough to find out the origins.

Third, if you're paying $10 for chocolate and you aren't sure of it's origin
(like when they didn't include ingredients) you deserve what you get.

Lots of companies don't tell you the whole story. While I personally think
honesty and integrity are hugely important the startup culture doesn't seem to
value it more than hockey stick growth charts.

------
JVMsOfGor
I never even heard of Mast Brothers until last week, and I am living a block
away from their factory. Now I fully appreciate this parody from a few months
ago:

[https://vimeo.com/131422396](https://vimeo.com/131422396)

------
ablation
Bizarre preoccupation with their beards in that QZ piece.

~~~
brandonmenc
Mast brothers are selling an image, and the beards are a big part of that.

They sound like genius trolls.

~~~
wavefunction
Trolls are people who point out the hypocrisy or emptiness of the positions of
other people by adopting affected personas or positions. These dudes are just
lying to get rich.

Yeah, I know this is the original definition of a troll but it's the only one
as far as I am concerned.

~~~
brandonmenc
While that's certainly a kind of troll, it's neither the original nor a
complete definition of the term.

------
nadezhda18
According to the DallasFood article, it looks like these guys have been saying
so many lies and this can be classified as a false advertisement - which is
punishable by law, no? What if all who's unhappy with Mast Bros simply go and
sue them? or complain to the authorities at least

------
bdcravens
They refute the claim here:

[http://mastbrothers.com/pages/press](http://mastbrothers.com/pages/press)

Missing, however, is the typical comments about defending themselves against
what would be libelous claims.

~~~
bjterry
They actually aren't refuting the claim. Even in the article I noticed that
they are very careful in their phrasing. They never say, "We have never sold
another companies chocolate" or anything like that. All they say is that from
they beginning, they have been a bean-to-bar chocolate maker. That only
requires that some of their bars have always been bean-to-bar, not that all
the bars they've sold have been so.

------
chasing
Can the FDA get involved in this? What happens when a food manufacturer lies
about the ingredients of their products? Even if this was a few years ago,
seems like something the government would get on their case about (and
rightfully so).

------
ZeroGravitas
This story (and the older Noka tale) seem to have parallels to Theranos and
their very media friendly tech that it turns out they weren't actually using.

------
drivingmenuts
My takeaway on this was that no laws were broken and a few hipsters got their
noses bent out of joint. I'm just not seeing any legal wrongdoing here.

------
briandear
This is just a little story related to this topic that you might find
interesting. The TLDR is that the olive oil business is equally pretentious
and deceptive as other "artisanal" foods.

My wife an I attempted to start an olive oil company last year selling French
extra virgin oil we make at our friend's olive farm in Provence.. If you think
the artisanal chocolate industry is full of deception and lies.. allow me to
introduce to you the wonderful world of olive oil. Our production cost for 1
liter was almost double the retail cost of so-called high-end "Italian" extra
virgin olive oil you'd buy at Whole Foods -- which basically means it is
nearly impossible to source actual, 100% extra virgin olive oil at the prices
they're being sold for at the stores, there are some exceptions -- a few oils
out there are actually the real deal. But a high percentage of grocery store
oils aren't what they claim to be (even at Whole Foods-type stores.)

Through a quirk of Italian law, oil that is bottled in Italy can be labeled
"100% Italian" \-- so there is a huge amount of inferior oils being passed off
as both Italian and Extra Virgin and being priced accordingly, despite it
being nearly impossible to wholesale Italian-grown, Italian made extra virgins
at the price they're selling it for. That's even accounting for economies of
scale.

My favorite label-scam is when I see "First Cold Pressed." Absolutely zero oil
you buy at grocery stores is ever cold pressed. Pressing actually creates
inferior oils. Olive oils are extracted in large centrifuges. They haven't
been "pressed" in probably a generation, but "First Cold Centrifuging" doesn't
sound as "artisanal." Producers know good and well they aren't pressing
anything, yet they (correctly) figure that that particular wording is going to
attract a customer who imagines images of an old dude dumping fresh olives
still moist with dew into a large, wooden handled press to squeeze out oil
just for them. Basically your stereotypical hipster-type that wants to opine
about the importance of "hand" crafting. I know probably a dozen olive oil
producers here in Provence and every single one of them hand-craft their oils
using state of the art, stainless steel equipment in spotless production
facilities. Some of this facilities are located in a converted barn, but that
idyllic image of the "craftsman" using "traditional" methods is just a myth.
Though, playing off of those ignorant imaginings means that companies, using
the right wording, can charge champagne prices for malt liquor.

I suppose if we just took Tunisia or Turkish oils, bottled them as French
oils, put a ultra-premium price on it -- and grew some beards and distributed
out of Brooklyn, we might have been more successful.

My point is that the artisanal and premium food business is rife with
deception. If anyone is interested in the olive oil industry this book is
exceptionally good: [http://www.truthinoliveoil.com/extra-
virginity](http://www.truthinoliveoil.com/extra-virginity)

~~~
isolate
I look for the D.O.P and/or organic farming mark, along with a production
date, a best before date, and the region of Italy. I'm pretty sure it's ok,
and it isn't cheap.

I've heard that the best way to understand the olive oil business is to
consider the fact (needs citation) that Italy exports twice as much oil as it
produces.

Did your business work out? What happened? We bought a very nice AOC olive oil
from Aix-en-Provence once.

~~~
briandear
Our business was extremely tough because to get US distribution, it's a rather
difficult process. So we were doing the distribution ourselves.. I was flying
back and forth to the US and we started selling in a few shops and we went
through the Whole Foods process, but the margins were extremely tight given
that we were at capacity with just 5000 liters a year. So not enough money to
justify the work. Our oil is/was AOC as well as organic. We also had several
single-olive varietals that were unique to our region that were really
popular.

But, in the end, it's just a hard grind of a business. Love the oils, don't
love competing with companies selling oil by the tanker truck. It was also a
tough sell to the consumer because convincing the average grocery store
shopper to pay almost triple the cost for a product that meets a need they
don't really know they have.. that's a tough one.

As a side note.. I do highly recommend California olive oils (ones that are
labeled as such..) they have a rather strict certification process, so if it's
in California and it's labeled as such, you're almost certainly getting the
real deal. I'm definitely partial top Provençal, Corsican and Tuscan oils, but
there are definitely some great ones out there.

------
Dowwie
Has a second source, one with credibility, confirmed this claim or is the
world satisfied with a blog post on some obscure dallas web site?

------
cheez
The article alleges that they used remelted chocolate in 2007. This is startup
land. You hustle and cut corners to prove your MVP.

You know who is mad? The hipsters who couldn't tell the difference.

~~~
dylz
The problem here isn't that they remelted. The problem is that they actively
lied about their ingredient lists and told people they were strictly making it
from the bean.

~~~
TheOtherHobbes
Which is true. But that seems to be more important to buyers than the
taste/experience of the product.

I'm not a fan of dishonest advertising. But that conclusion seems a bizarre
place to end up in.

