
Rules for Writing Detective Stories by S.S. Van Dine (1928) - networked
http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/triv288.html
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projectramo
This list walked into my life like a jilted mistress out of the rain. It was
all function, sleek jagged lines like a panther cut out of alabaster. I like
my lists with a little more style, panache, verve. Not because I like pretty
things, but because I want something this list can never give me: I want
character.

~~~
spthorn60
"Come off it, sweetheart," I challenged, knowing that the list was just a
façade, all crumbly and worse for wear. "What's the real story?"

The list shrank back. "I'll not be questioned from the likes of you, why,
you... reader!"

The moll knew. Decades of fanatical typing but declining sales had forced the
list to put on airs, to rise above the common man. But chumps like me could
see right through it, and she knew it. Oh, she knew it.

I leaned back in my chair, and took the last drag on my stub of a cigarette.
Exhaling, I blew smoke toward the open door. She turned, and followed it out
into the dark night. Into the city that knows how to keep its secrets.

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atr_gz
Raymond Chandler's thoughts on the subject[1][2] make a nice contrast with
this list. I haven't read any S.S. Van Dine, but in general I strongly prefer
Chandler's approach over other mystery authors of the time.

[1]"Ten Commandments for the Detective Novel"
[http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/triv116.html](http://www.thrillingdetective.com/trivia/triv116.html)

[2]"The Simple Art of Murder"
[http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/scans/chandlerar...](http://www.en.utexas.edu/amlit/amlitprivate/scans/chandlerart.html)

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sacado2
His books were very dry and quite boring because of this. He is more known for
these rules than for his novels, which says a lot. Most of the great mystery
writers (especially Agatha Christie and John Dickson Carr) violated several of
these "rules" in each of their novels.

~~~
therealchiko
This clarifies my observation. As i was reading down the list of rules, I
tried to think if some of the most enjoyable stories I can recall stuck to
these guidelines strictly, doesn't appear to be the case. Maybe it's just my
taste, but i then tried to recall what masterpieces this author has to his
name but no big names came to mind. would be interesting to delve deep into
his work then contrast his style with others.

~~~
sacado2
In such a masterpiece as "and then there were none", which is by far the most
sold mystery book ever, Christie chose to ignore 4 of these rules, at the very
least. For instance (I mention this one because this is _not_ a spoiler),
there is no detective _at all_ in this novel.

Didn't read a lot of books from Van Dine, I just remember they are very dry,
because he is fascinated with the mechanics of the detective novel. I didn't
like it, but give it a try, his approach might appeal to you.

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kieckerjan
Asinine or not, he certainly had a point with rule 3: "There must be no love
interest in the story. To introduce amour is to clutter up a purely
intellectual experience with irrelevant sentiment. The business in hand is to
bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the
hymeneal altar."

If only the makers of genre movies would take this rule to heart! It would
make for tighter plots and shorter running times. How many thrillers, action
flicks, superhero films, disaster, spy and scifi movies have been marred by
inserting some half-baked love story into it?

~~~
watwut
While I hear your point, not being too much into love stories, all those
mentioned genres have so much repetition and pointless fluff, that presence of
love story is smaller problem. As in, fix plot holes and half baked dumbness
in writing and the impact will be much bigger then usually few minutes of
fanservice in the presence of minor romance.

We are talking about genres that completely lost any suspense and thrill,
because ending is predictable from the beginning.

~~~
kieckerjan
Granted. Although I am often amazed by the amount of bad scriptwriting going
on in genre movies (I mean come on, how much do they pay these writers?), I
cannot be very offended by it. In genre movies the plot is usually little more
than an excuse to get from one set-piece to another. In action movies such a
set-piece would be a chase or stuff blowing up, in kung-fu movies it would be
a fight, in horror movies something horrible, in porn... well you get my
drift.

~~~
watwut
For me, it killed pleasure from watching them and I used to like them.
Especially in horror, to be scared I need to sort of believe it. When I don't,
then it becomes merely disgusting. Similar with fights, I don't feel thrill
nor anything of the sort anymore. I used to like fights, but when all
characters act like unreal idiots I end up wishing they all killed each other
in the end. They never do.

It is as if genre movies completely resigned on story and writing. It is just
eye candy at this point.

I don't think it used to always be like that, because I have seen some older
movies lately and characters (including supporting cast) made more sense.

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namaemuta
> The reader must have equal opportunity with the detective for solving the
> mystery. All clues must be plainly stated and described.

Many TV shows fail on this point trying to surprise the viewer with an
unexpected result which ironically becomes so common that ends up being
predictable from the first few minutes of the show.

Edit: they also fail in number 2 and 5.

~~~
wesd
That is primary reason why I don't like watching Dr Who. My kids love it but
most episodes are magically resolved at end for my liking.

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docdeek
A nice list, though I think my favourite detective story would fail on at
least one point; indeed, ‘The Murder of Roger Ackroyd’ by Agatha Christie
succeeds largely because it goes against one of the rules.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murder_of_Roger_Ackroyd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Murder_of_Roger_Ackroyd)

~~~
probably_wrong
"Murder on the Orient Express" also goes against the list, same for Sherlock
Holmes in general.

I think it's one of those situations in which you deviate from the rules
either because you don't know what you are doing, or because you know
_precisely_ what you are doing.

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vivekd
One thing I like about this list is that it's so focused on the audience. Van
Dine's priority is being fair to the reader and giving the reader an enjoyable
experience and most importantly making sure the reader gets exactly what they
came for when they pick up a mystery novel.

Although modern writers would likely find a list like this too narrow, I think
the base point of being fair to the reader is a good one. It's one that, as
many others have pointed out in this thread, many mystery stories today would
benefit from.

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baud147258
There must be no love interest in the story. A detective novel should contain
no long descriptive passages, no "atmospheric" préoccupations.

I realise that my favorites detective stories (those of brother Cadfael from
Ellis Peters) all break those rules to good effect, building a good sense of
place and time. The romance always involve characters concerned by the crime
(suspect, family member of the deceased, guilty party...), but never the
detective.

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jraines
_True Detective_ breaks almost all of these, some for the worse, most for the
better.

