
H-1B draft with proposed changes [pdf] - vemkiran
https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfiles/high_skilled_bill_sxs_and_analysis_-1-2017__final.pdf
======
gopalv
Section 2.

That's what matters if you're an Indian with an I-140 dated 2009, afraid to
change his H1B job, despite salary or personnel issues. (Also, ask me about
why I'm not starting up).

That one section prevents this "you can quit anytime you feel like" threat
held over Indian employees by employers, because an I-140 for the employee is
issued to the employer.

An employee with mobility between employers is no longer forcing the wages
down.

That does not prevent a company from sending the same job to India, because it
suddenly costs so much, but it does prevent the lowering of wages due to
people putting up with abusive or near-illegal employment practices.

This is good for the local economy and basically makes an "outsourcing"
employee irresponsible if she doesn't jump to an american firm who will do her
paperwork right.

Raising the salaries all around.

(delete mini-rant about living expenses and salaries - increased pay all
around isn't always what it's cracked up to be)

That section alone, shifts the balance of power between an employer and an H1b
holder.

------
rhapsodic
I was a free market libertarian until about last week, when I finally got sick
of being lectured and called names by tech billionaires. Now I'm for anything
that helps me financially, and hurts these people.

If the H1B program were abolished entirely, my compensation would shoot up
there with doctors' and lawyers', and the tech billionaires would be slightly
less rich.

This measure doesn't go that far, but it's a step in that direction.

~~~
spapin
It also seem likely that opening an office outside of the USA may become an
interesting alternative. Then your wage and your job may be at risk. If impact
to you is how you evaluate things, it would seem like there's room for
worries.

~~~
rhapsodic
> It also seem likely that opening an office outside of the USA may become an
> interesting alternative. Then your wage and your job may be at risk. If
> impact to you is how you evaluate things, it would seem like there's room
> for worries.

There are a lot of people on this thread who don't understand how the law of
supply and demand works.

~~~
spapin
Supply can go down. But don't forget that demand can also go down.Car
manufacture isn't the only job that can be outsourced.

------
mavelikara
Reposting my comment from the other thread [1]:

\---

While TCS, Infosys etc figure prominently in the H-1B debate, I think this new
bill does not affect them as much as it is made out to be. The real downside
is for staffing firms (popularly known as "desi consulting shops"), mostly run
by Indian-Americans.

TCS employs 370K+ employees worldwide and had revenue of $16B+ in 2016. They
might have gotten 3K H-1Bs each year. If they know how to run projects
staffing 370K employees with 3K H-1Bs per year, they will figure out a way to
run it with 500. Also, with that kind of revenue, they will pay the $130K if
it comes to that.

H-1Bs, I suspect, have a power law distribution. TCS, Infosys etc top the list
of H-1B visas per year, but there is a long tail of companies which get
allotted few visas every year. Some of these in the long tail are high tech
firms in real need of skill and are the ones paying appropriately for it
(AmaFaceGoodSoft etc). But I think the larger cohort are the staffing shops
which bend the rules often and pay low.

\---

[1]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13534296](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13534296)

~~~
tn13
"desi consulting shops" might even run fake payrolls to bypass(break) the
laws. As someone who has seen them closely, it is common practice for them to
pay an employee $110K on paper but $60K in real.

~~~
RobertDeNiro
Isn't that highly illegal?

~~~
praneshp
Highly illegal and HIGHLY common. When my wife moved here (I uprooted her
career because of our marriage), she spoke to a few of these people. It was
way easier to get an illegal job, and better green card prospects (don't know
why).

~~~
mavelikara
Things are much better these days with proprietors, HR folks and lawyers of
these firms getting jail sentences.

~~~
praneshp
Many of them? I saw a couple in the news, so there is a general push in the
right direction I guess.

------
kirillzubovsky
Looks like a good move, aimed at reducing H1B misuse by the outsourcing
companies that arbitrage wages for large employers like Microsoft, while
enabling move visas for other employers.

Curious to see how this bill would prevent the major outsources from forming a
load of subsidiaries and gaming the system anyway. Maybe it's more of a bill
for show, than to actually solve anything.

Also, for those jobs with lower income potential, the question still stands -
can the employers find enough US citizens to take on those jobs (and do them
well), given the the low salary.

------
tucaz
"Unless dependent employers compensate their H-1B workers above the required
wage level, they must make attestations regarding recruitment and non-
displacement of U.S. workers"

Does this mean that a company can pay below the 130k if it can prove that it's
not possible to hire an American even with higher wages?

~~~
Retric
Yes, the 130k figure does nothing in practice.

~~~
fedeoasi
And yet all the panic portrayed by the press is generated by the 130k figure.

------
EduardoBautista
Section 8 provides a way to make it easier for students to immigrate by
allowing dual-intent.

~~~
CodeSheikh
Yup this seals the deal for this proposal. If you are a student who obtains a
degree at a USA college and if you can find a competitive job then "Welcome to
the USA". So basically as a foreigner you have to be an above average student.

~~~
matt_wulfeck
That's great news. I firmly believe we should be stapling greencards to the
back of higher education diplomas.

------
rhapsodic
As a software developer and a US citizen, this is to my advantage. I hope it
quickly becomes the law of the land.

~~~
CodeSheikh
How is this to your advantage? Are you having hard time securing a full-time
dev job with a US tech company? Last time I checked, there was more demand and
shortage of supply for smart programmers (I have been interviewing a lot). Do
you happen to work in a region where there are less tech jobs?

~~~
rhapsodic
It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US,
relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages)
down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that.

To answer your question, I don't have trouble finding or keeping employment.
This move will simply drive up my market value. So I'm for it.

~~~
tn13
> It's simple economics. H1B's increase the supply of developers in the US,
> relative to the demand. And that drives the price of developers (i.e. wages)
> down. I don't think any intelligent person can fail to understand that.

The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even
hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly
to innovate and increase the cost of services for average American consumer.

If Citibank charges $25 monthly fee they might have to charge $30 to make the
same money. That generally hurts American consumer just the way American
protectionism towards Steel and Sugar industry hurts American consumers while
benefiting special interest groups.

For those of us who have taken Econ 101 can tell you that this is even worse
for resources such as human mind. The marginal impact on salaries with every
additional H1B US taken in next to 0 simply because Job at higher end are not
zero sum game. Each extra person helps grow the pie significantly this
increasing the salaries even further.

For low value jobs such as a gardener, a cheaper labor will replace the
expensive one because having two gardeners does not increase the productivity
of the employer by 2X. But for high-end jobs such as say a Doctor, having many
doctors would mean more drugs, faster solution to diabetes and cancer.

~~~
rhapsodic
_> The simple economics you are quoting will argue against protectionism. Even
hypothetically assuming it will increase wages it will in turn make it costly
to innovate and increase the cost of services for average American consumer._

You're quite right, of course, and until about a week ago, I would have
opposed this change to the law on that basis. But I've had a bellyful of being
lectured and name-called by self-righteous billionaires. So now whatever hurts
them and helps me, I'm all for.

And although protectionism does hurt a country overall, it helps individuals
and companies that are protected from competition. And for this change to the
H1B law, I fall into that group. So bring on the protectionism, I say.

------
kyleschiller

      Sets aside 20% of the annual allocation of H-1B visas for small and start-up employers
    

This is great, I was worried with the $130k requirement candidates would be
stuck at huge corporations, but 20% is fairly generous.

~~~
jlardinois
But will there be enough small companies willing and able to hire H1B workers
at that salary level? This might just have the effect of reducing the number
of visas that are actually given out, as some of this 20% will remain unused.

------
fusion_guru
Everyone seems to think that H1-B visas are just for tech employees. What
about other professional service fields like RN's in private and public or
community clinics, doctors e.t.c. I doubt all eligible jobs can pay the
proposed amount. Also what about geographic cost of living adjustment? If
anything this bill concentrates high wages in the pasts and maybe Chicago. I
don't know how this changes the equation for middle America.

------
tarikjn
There are some good things in there, in particular 6. MARKET-BASED H-1B VISA
ALLOCATION. However what is missing is a month by month allocation, which
would be much more competitive than the existing yearly, April 1st allocation.

If you are in Zoe Lofgren's district, please send her comments here:
[https://lofgren.house.gov/contact/](https://lofgren.house.gov/contact/)

------
CodeSheikh
I am a bit confused about $130,000 limit. A $130,000 salary in NYC is way
different than a small town in Mississippi. Should not it be regional average?

~~~
explainthisth
The most economically productive businesses are located in the most expensive
areas, because they get the highest ROI from hiring top employees. Skilled
workers get paid less in MS because the national economy needs skilled workers
less in MS.

------
sparky_
Is this in fact the same H-1B bill that is likely to pass congress and the
President's signature? I ask as the sponsor of the bill, Rep. Lofgren, is the
(Democratic) congresswoman for downtown San Jose.

------
mavelikara
Other relevant discussion here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13529792](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13529792)

