
Ask HN: The hardest job you'll ever have. - daenz
This YC job posting is on the front page at the time of posting this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3726135:<p><pre><code>  The hardest job you'll ever have (YC S11)

  We're a small team of dedicated hackers working long hours 
  on hard problems. We're using a mix of technologies (RoR, 
  Objective-C, Core Data, Postgres, and Node), are well-
  funded, have passionate users, and truly believe in what 
  we're doing.

  If you're one of the few that thinks this sounds 
  interesting we'd love to talk. Send a link to your 
  github/dvcs profile to: missionhackerhouse@gmail.com

  Must be in SF or willing to relocate (we'll help cover any 
  moving expenses).
</code></pre>
I wish you could comment on the job postings themselves and I assume there is a good reason for that in general, but I want to see what other people think about this kind of posting.<p>What is the class of developers that posting is aimed at?  I like to think of myself as a decent developer, but it really rubs me the wrong way.  I don't want a grueling-ly hard job.  I want a challenging job.  I don't want to work "long hours", I want to be flexible (in both directions).<p>The last line is really puzzling.  It's as if they know how unappealing the listing is, but they're looking for those few naive, exploitable workers who just might deal with that shit:<p><pre><code>  If you're one of the few that thinks this sounds interesting
  we'd love to talk.
</code></pre>
Is there really an audience for this type of posting?
======
lewisgodowski
I had a roommate during my first year at college. This job posting is a pretty
accurate description of his work ethic. As unusual as it sounds, yes, there
are people like that out there. I wouldn't say they're looking for someone
naive or exploitable, but rather the few people that enjoy doing this type of
work. Some people don't care too much about having free time to socialize.
They get their kicks from working a lot, and don't like having "free time" or
a gap in their rigid schedule.

~~~
larrys
My suggestion with anything is never to limit the people that apply to you.
For one thing you could scare off someone who is truly exceptional that you
would hire even if they didn't want to work 24/7. The other is that this isn't
GE and they don't have to worry about getting 40,000 resumes to look at.

Things like this remind me of "serious inquiries only" on craiglist which I
find insulting and I'm sure that turns off inquires that could result in
sales.

Having just closed 2 sales that others in my business would have blown off
(because of the approach of the buyer) I can tell you that in general it
always pays to leave no stone unturned and not to be lazy and limit who can
approach you.

~~~
stray
> Things like this remind me of "serious inquiries only" on craiglist which I
> find insulting and I'm sure that turns off inquires that could result in
> sales.

Just this past week I had my first experience trying to sell something on
craigslist -- and I think the reason people put "serious inquiries only" in
their ads there (craigslist) is because the _VAST_ majority of responses you
get are email address harvesters... Of course, the "serious inquiries only"
blurb won't help with that but I'm sure that's the reason for it...

------
larrys
I think this can be reduced down to simply:

"We are a well funded YC11 company using Objective-C, Core Data, Postgres, and
Node looking to hire in SF. We can pay relocation if needed".

The rest is to much cliche.

~~~
glimcat
Yes.

The problem is, that's below the care threshold for wide swaths of the
audience they're hoping to attract. You're hiring developers? So what,
everyone's hiring developers these days.

As a startup, it's also unlikely that you can win a bidding war, so avoid that
dimension. Where startups can often succeed is in the "moral payoff" - are you
building something I care about and want to be part of? Startups have a giant
advantage there compared to a company that needs you to add a new feature to
their in-house order fulfillment software.

Unfortunately, you've set that axis to zero if you start going on about "hard
problems" and never ever reveal who you are or what you're building.

See also the previous post by the same user which is completely vague, while
the current post at least gets as far as "probably some SaaS / iOS app."

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3580917>

I wonder that YC doesn't include an hour session on "how to write a job post
that your target audience won't classify as spam."

~~~
larrys
Good point. Don't know the answer so..

Just posted an "Ask PG" on that.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3729354>

------
1123581321
I rarely am attracted to job listings here. They are nearly always poorly
written and reveal various flaws of the founders.

~~~
codeonfire
The adds are targeted for early 20 something's by early 20 somethings and so
reflect that thinking. No one should be surprised when they read like frat ads
during rush week.

~~~
aorshan
I take a bit of offense to that. I am an early 20 something and I thought that
was a useless and uninformative job posting that held exactly 0 appeal to me.

~~~
codeonfire
Great, maybe advertisers will change their ads.

------
dirkdeman
This particular job posting not only failed to mention one single thing that
would appeal to me (or any well-thinking person for that matter), but it also
agitated me. Listing the stack is an attribute, not an advantage. So is the
location, SF is a great city but that alone does not make me want to apply.
The fact that you’re a small team working long hours on hard problems? To me,
it screams ‘NO WORK/LIFE BALANCE’. So you have funding and users? Wow. How
much? How many? What is it you’re doing? Furthermore, the complete and utter
lack of information, coupled with a shifty Gmail address almost makes me think
it’s a scam.

It just puzzles me why people create job listings like this. In today’s job
market for skilled engineers could you at least TRY to persuade me to apply?

~~~
jetti
It may scream "NO WORK/LIFE BALANCE" but at least they are honest about it.
Being upfront about it is much better than going through the interviews and
being told one thing but when you start working it turns out "hey, we need you
to work more hours" which is what happened to me currently.

------
codeonfire
No well experienced engineer is going to respond to these types of ads because
of the horrible visions of projects passed, unrealistic inexperienced bro
bosses, and an understanding that relying on hard work alone is not going to
be good enough. These ads are targeted at college kids because they are mostly
made by 18-20 year old YC founders.

------
stray
Whippersnappers.

~~~
jf271
Yes, they are. I raised three girls and got them all through college on my
dime and by next year they will all have either MS or MBA degrees that they
paid for themselves.

A much tougher job than anything they could throw at me.

