
The Dog Thief Killings - sergeant3
http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2016/the-dog-thief-killings/
======
danso
tl;dr: A story that has almost nothing to do with the normal topics on HN, not
even the geopolitical content, but still worth reading. Probably the longest
story I've read about Vietnam in a long, long time. I would have been happy
enough if it had focused just on the first murder, as I'm always interested in
how justice (both official and vigilante) works in the more spread out areas
of Vietnam, and in Vietnam in general.

My uncle used to live in Saigon...one day one of his dogs ran out because the
courtyard door was left open for a bit too long and a moped-riding thief
swooped it up out on the streets before they could get to it. They did manage
to get the dog back by visiting a local...wherever captured dogs are dropped
off before being distributed/butchered. So I guessed that if this was
happening in Saigon, it was probably a not uncommon thing. Hadn't heard about
the vigilante justice angle though.

~~~
mcguire
" _Hadn 't heard about the vigilante justice angle though._"

On the one hand, to me, say, a dog is a friend, and ally. I'm almost certain
to think that your dog is a better person than you are.

On the other, a dog is livestock. And stealing livestock has always been a
good way to get dead.

~~~
tim333
Dogs are kind of part of the family and so probably going for them is an even
better way to get killed than stealing livestock.

See also John McAfee's neighbour who was mysteriously shot in the head after
complaining about McAfee's dogs and their subsequent poisoning.

------
civilian
I think there's a morality line here that @sandworm101 kind of misses.

I'm pretty okay with eating domesticated animals. I was sad that I couldn't
find horsemeat when I was in montreal. If dogs are raised for the slaughter,
I'm okay with that.

What Nguyen Dinh Phong was doing was totally different. He was abducting
people's _family members_ in the night, and killing them in a callous way.

That's why he got lynched, that's why he is more evil than that dog-restaurant
he sold the dogs to.

~~~
knughit
You believe that ones own zest for life is unworthy of protection, but ones
zest for another's life is worthy? Why?

~~~
civilian
Do I believe that? You phrased it in kind of a confusing way, can you refine
it?

If you're asking why I'm okay with Nguyen Dinh Phong being killed--- it's
because I'm pretty okay with the justice that was delivered. More dirtbags
should have dirtnaps.

------
sandworm101
No sympathy here. One of the few things that really gets my blood boiling is
people eating dog. I have more sympathy for whalers. Anyone supporting such a
practice should not approach me. Someone hunting and stealing dogs to turn
them into meat, that does not and should not end well.

Dogs and cats are unique amongst animals. These animals have guarded our doors
since before we had doors to guard. Their language is universally understood.
Play a bark to a person in china or france, everyone understands dog. It's in
our genes. Mistreatment is bad, but eating is something worse. Those who turn
on dogs turn their backs on humanity.

~~~
gozur88
>Dogs and cats are unique amongst animals. These animals have guarded our
doors since before we had doors to guard. Their language is universally
understood. Play a bark to a person in china or france, everyone understands
dog. It's in our genes. Mistreatment is bad, but eating is something worse.
Those who turn on dogs turn their backs on humanity.

Nonsense. That is 100% specific to your culture. In a lot of places dogs are
livestock. In others people revile you for eating beef. Or pork.

~~~
sandworm101
Dogs we with us before the concept of culture, possibly before what we know as
language. Cats joined us with the birth of agriculture. Pigs and cows have
never been partners in the way that dogs and cats have.

"New research shows babies have a handle on the meaning of different dog barks
– despite little or no previous exposure to dogs."

[https://news.byu.edu/news/babies-understand-dog-speak-byu-
st...](https://news.byu.edu/news/babies-understand-dog-speak-byu-study-finds)

I've seen this effect demonstrated amongst people on opposite sides of the
planet, with totally different languages and cultures. We can all understand
the mood and intent of a dog's bark. You don't even need to be a dog person.

~~~
Nutmog
There's a missing part in your reasoning. Why does a history of people
understanding dogs imply that we shouldn't eat them? Should we never eat
animals (or plants?) that people in many cultures and times could understand?
What connects understanding and eating? Is it OK for other animals to eat
them? Even if we feed the dogs to those other animals?

Don't chickens fall into the same category as dogs? People everywhere live
with them wandering around their house, then from time to time they eat one.

Ignoring any other factors, would it be OK to eat a person or dog who had some
brain damage so that nobody could understand the mood or intent of anything
they communicated? Would it be OK for a person with an inability to understand
dogs' (or people's) moods to eat them?

What if a new breed of cow was developed that could get along with people the
way dogs do. Would that elevate it to the status of being un-eatable, or not
because it doesn't have the long history of people understanding it like dogs
do?

These might sound like snarky questions, but their answers would help paint a
clearer picture of your idea which, as you've presented it, doesn't make sense
to me.

Personally, I wouldn't eat dog because I can imagine all the dogs I've met and
feel some emotional connection with. But that's just my personal history. If I
was the only one like that, I still wouldn't eat them. You seem to be saying
that if you (or your culture) were the only person/culture who had dogs as
pets, then you would be willing to eat dogs.

You also implied that it's OK to kill humans ("no sympathy"). Is it OK to kill
dogs too as long as we don't eat them?

