
“Well, He’s Not Going to Get Very Far” - jennita
http://moz.com/rand/well-hes-not-going-to-get-very-far/
======
eykanal
What a perfect example of the benefits of open communication. Sarah was a
skilled enough boss to make Zach feel comfortable challenging her. Zach was an
engaged enough employee to actually discuss something that was bothering him.
There are so many ways that this could not have happened.

This makes me really want to work with that team.

~~~
grappler
That reminds me of a stupid thing I said once.

At a sprint retrospective, I said something to the effect of “I realize that I
could stand to get faster at coding and using the editor shortcuts”.

I was fired the next day. Reason given: coding skill.

~~~
sokoloff
I doubt that there was a strict causal link between your statement and your
termination. (That no one was considering it, then you made that statement,
then suddenly you're let go the next day.) If there was, and you're the type
to read HN, you are better off anyway, even if it felt otherwise at the time.

~~~
grappler
No, I don't mean to imply that it was as simple as that.

This was a place where programmers pair all the time. If you're working by
yourself, and you don't have things like quick editor navigation down, nobody
cares. If you're pairing with someone who does, and they sigh and roll their
eyes at the few seconds it takes you to do some basic tasks, it sucks. I could
see and feel them gradually losing respect for me. In technical conversations,
my opinion ceased to feel welcome.

Honestly, I probably would have been let go anyway. They were probably having
conversations to this effect among themselves. It's pretty crappy to feel
you're persona non grata without it being explicitly spelled out for you
(yet). And I really was working on studying up and building these skills.

Bringing this up at a retrospective was saying, in effect, “I know this is an
issue, I am working on it, and if you have any constructive feedback I welcome
it”.

What I should have been doing, looking back on it, was actively looking for my
next job. Saying this publicly to the team gave me less time to do that.

------
rmrfrmrf
How many companies that tout flexible work schedules actually allow them? In
my mind, a flexible work schedule should mean somewhere in the realm of 35-40
hours a week, with those expected _occasional_ 41-60 hr spikes before a
deadline.

When I talked to a recruiter recently, though, I asked them about their
flexible work schedule. What they said was kind of horrifying: "Oh yeah, we're
TOTALLY flexible! When there's a deadline due, we all work 60+ hours, but
there are SOME weeks when we _literally_ struggle to make our required 40."

Like, what? A flexible work schedule now means choosing between unpaid
overtime and MORE unpaid overtime? GEE THANKS!

~~~
31reasons
I truly believe Programmers should never get a "job". If you are not skilled
at all they are really overpaying you and if you have any skill at all, they
are really underpaying you. I wish a day when all programmers just work as
consultants and paid of every hour they work. Programmers should be treated
more like artists or actors.

~~~
Joeri
There is more value to programming than what it puts in your bank account
though. If you wish to build and be part of a truly engaging product, you have
to engage for the long haul with a codebase, on the order of years. That means
either (A) you make your own product (and are responsible for your own
business strategy, accounting and sales), or (B) you get into a fixed contract
with some employer (where due to the long term relationship they will be
careful to restrict what they pay).

In scenario (A) you will not spend all your day programming. You will have to
care about the business parts. If you're not cut out for those parts, even if
you end up making lots of money, you will probably not be happy.

In scenario (B) you are more likely to be able to spend more time programming,
with less overhead to worry about, but this depends heavily on the employer,
so you may end up performing several false starts or walking away from an
employer/employee relationship. If an employer accepts you, you will most
likely not be paid what your time is worth, but this is a willing exchange for
not having to care about the non-technical parts of the story.

Is there a scenario C? If there is I've not yet discovered it.

~~~
hispanic
Yes, there is. I've worked as a paid-by-the-hour contractor for a single
client for years at a time. I've done this for three different clients - for 4
years, 2 and 1/2 years, and (my current client) 3 and 1/2 years. In my current
role, I serve as dev lead and have significant input with regard to strategic
direction of the project. I might be an outlier and my experience may not be
shared by many, but I'm evidence that scenario C exists.

------
pekk
A culture where everyone has to be in the perfect 1%, or where everyone is
informing on everyone, or where people are very actively competing for status
and territory, is also one where nobody will show vulnerability or speak up or
tell the truth, except as it seems strategic to do so.

~~~
VLM
Which shows the perfect meaninglessness of the netflix slide, the cognitive
dissonance of it. "We fire all B performers regardless of effort".

Think about that. Pretend you don't know what netflix does. I hope nuclear
reactors are run by people like that. Oh that sounds like a good slogan for an
open heart surgeon. Secret service agents? No, you say? Hmm how about space
shuttle tile installation specialist? I've got it, sounds like people who
guide tin cans full of thousands of gallons of flammable fuel and hundreds of
vulnerable human beings, miles above the earth at just under the speed of
sound in incredibly crowded skies and they almost never make a mistake. Umm
are they the people we trust our youth to, to mold and train their minds, or
at the other end, the people we trust to care for our elders? Nope none of the
above... dude, they rent videos. No.... you're kidding me! Really? Thats all?

Every corporate mythology has some kind of self congratulatory mythos about
being the elite of the elite, perfection on earth. Lots of kool-aid get drunk
at these proclamations. It sounds absolutely hilarious to realistic outsiders
not drunk on the kool-aid.

I know this is HN where only binary thinking is allowed therefore making fun
of them for not being the 1% elite means I'm implying they must be the bottom
1%. Nope. Not at all. They're probably good average people doing good average
things, just like every other average company out there. Key word being
average. Dude... they rent videos... I hope to god for the survival of our
species that the intellectual elite of our civilization are doing something
slightly more important. And I think they are.

~~~
purplelobster
Couldn't agree more. Every little startup and bigcorp think they need the
Ninja Rockstar Astronaut Millionaire Cowboy 1% Hacker, while in fact they're
just looking for someone to crank out some standard js or ruby for some social
networking web app.

~~~
VLM
Oh, they might need a minority of "A" level players for a couple of the really
tough jobs. Whoever runs netflix routing and NAS gets a total tip of my hat to
them and at least some of them must be "A" level. I bet they've got some guys
who know a few things about video codecs too. On the other hand, the dude who
files expense reports in the correct filing cabinet most of the time, well,
lets be polite and claim its hard to say. Describing the entire corporate
culture as "A" level is just laughable.

~~~
comrade_ogilvy
>Describing the entire corporate culture as "A" level is just laughable.

And it is an excellent means to cover up bad management. When expectations are
unrealistic, then everyone is probably failing. It just boils down to office
politics about who avoids blame.

It is a nice idea to always be A-level or work towards there -- that requires
a significant investment in recruiting and training that few companies are
actually interested in. But a company that cannot make good use of B-level
work in most places surely has incompetent management.

~~~
walshemj
Yep its like making all the bug fixes priority 1

~~~
comrade_ogilvy
<wince> You speak as if we worked together in a previous life.

"Hey, you guys never fix the P2 or P3 bugs!" Remember him?

------
BoredAstronaut
I refer you to Celine's Laws, #2: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celines_laws>

"Communication is only possible between equals". Equality is a perception, but
the one with the power to punish inevitably decides who is equal, and who
isn't. The safe bet if you're in the inferior position is to assume that
rocking the boat will get you in trouble.

That's why everyone hates when bosses make jokes about firing them. It's only
funny if you know it's a joke, but employees can never be sure.

~~~
itsybitsycoder
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine%27s_laws>

------
InclinedPlane
Values and culture are defined by actions. If a company has to spend a lot of
time telling its employees that they are valued, that usually indicates that
the message is trying to counteract some stronger implicit message based on
actions. It's like hearing "we value your business" while you're on hold for
support. If they actually valued your business they would take the effort to
provide better support. When I file a ticket with my VPS provider there is
communication going on almost instantly and typically the issue is resolved
within a matter of minutes, they don't have to tell me that they value my
business, they show it. And I spend less money with them than I do with my
mobile provider or my ISP.

------
iSnow
>understand how little faith and trust people have in us when we stand up at a
meeting and say “we believe in our culture”

Because time and again employees have to read bs that makes their eyes bleed
and keep a straight face. The netflix "we are the A++ team" slide is another
example.

No doubt they are a great team, but all of their workforce deliver a perfect A
score over all the worklife, no matter if they get ill, have children or
broken hearts?

~~~
walshemj
Reminds me of "are we an effective team" from Oblivion :-;

------
rdl
What is TAGFEE? Is that some SEOmoz-specific term? I found other places they'd
used it but no actual description in 2 seconds of googling.

~~~
korethr
Following the link in the upper right-hand corner, I find a page which talks
about being Transparent, Authentic, Generous, Fun, Empathetic, and
Exceptional.

[http://www.seomoz.org/blog/what-we-believe-why-seomozs-
tagfe...](http://www.seomoz.org/blog/what-we-believe-why-seomozs-tagfee-
tenets)

~~~
rdl
Weird, the design of sites (other than this one) has caused me to be totally
blind to content in the margin like that; it's usually some kind of social
media sharing widget or something.

------
Lagged2Death
It's a bad idea to put a photograph of keys on-line, particularly in such a
way that they can be matched up with a real-world identity. And the higher-
profile you are, the worse an idea it is, I imagine.

[http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/07/duplicating_ph...](http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/07/duplicating_phy.html)

[http://www.news.com.au/national-news/killer-escaped-
prison-a...](http://www.news.com.au/national-news/killer-escaped-prison-after-
being-issued-picture-of-master-key-to-all-locks/story-fncynjr2-1226629878591)

~~~
Kluny
For god's sake, have an opinion that wasn't on the front page of HN last week.

~~~
tekromancr
Yikes. Is the hostility needed?

------
joshrotenberg
Next question: Why did Sarah have Kenny's keys?

------
usablebytes
"Assumption is the mother of all screwups"; and yet it is so natural to all of
us.

Salute to Sarah for building an excellent open culture and Zach's courage to
speak out. And yes, 'trust' is critical in organizations. Good story.

------
webXL
Nice story, but moz.com really needs to "body { color: black }" with that
background of theirs.

------
getglue
Moz circle jerk.

