
Remembering When Only Barbarians Drank Milk - DoreenMichele
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/history-of-milk
======
_emacsomancer_
Interesting, especially since the linguistic/cultural ancestors of the Greeks,
the Proto-Indo-Europeans were pastorals who highly valued milk and milk-
products. There are traces of this everywhere, from the 'dual meanings' of a
number of words in Indo-European for "cows" and "wealth", e.g. German _Vieh_
"cattle, livestock" which is cognate with English _fee_ as well as Latin
_pecunia_ "money" alongside of Latin _pecus_ "cattle" and the sacredness of
cows in India.

So one special genetic characteristic of Proto-Indo-Europeans is their
capacity to digest milk (cp.
[https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01667476/file/GarnierSagartSagot_mi...](https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01667476/file/GarnierSagartSagot_milk.pdf)
)

~~~
ravenscrow
> So one special genetic characteristic of Proto-Indo-Europeans is their
> capacity to digest milk

A significant number of PIE were and a significant number of PIE descendants
today are lactose intolerant. It is primarily northern europeans who consume
milk and are the least lactose intolerant. Most PIE descendants consumes milk-
products like cheese, yogurt, butter, etc.

Also, none PIE cultures ( mongols, turks, arabs, siberians, etc ) are
primarily lactose intolerant but they consume milk-based products.

I think I read that processing milk into yogurt, cheese, butter, etc removes
lactose or makes it easier for the lactose intolerant to consume. But don't
quote me on that.

~~~
dghughes
> I think I read that processing milk into yogurt, cheese, butter, etc removes
> lactose or makes it easier for the lactose intolerant to consume. But don't
> quote me on that.

I've read that too I think it breaks down the lactose sugar molecule which is
why lactose intolerant people can eat Greek yogurt (not just any yogurt) and
cheese.

It's kind of odd we call people lactose intolerant when probably only 5% of
the world is able to digest lactose. The majority of the world cannot digest
lactose but that's normal not a disease.

~~~
perl4ever
I don't think 95% are lactose intolerant globally. Also, being lactose
intolerant from birth _is_ a disorder, and it's extremely rare.

The Wikipedia article on the subject mentions that the number of people who
are lactose intolerant as adults is unknown, but goes on to say "One estimate
puts the average at 65% of the global population.[8] Rates of lactose
intolerance vary between regions, from less than 10% in Northern Europe to as
high as 95% in parts of Asia and Africa.[3]"

It goes on to say that evidence suggests that lactase persistence has evolved
multiple times independently, so it's not just a one time European mutation.

See:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance)

~~~
danieltillett
The lactose persistence gene variant found in Europeans is a one time
mutation. It has evolved independently in Africa a few times too, but these
variants are not found in ethnic Europeans.

Far less than 35% of the worlds population is lactose tolerant as an adult. I
will take a look at the review linked on wiki and try to see how robust this
number is.

Edit. Ok trekking back through the literature the estimate is based on old
measures of the lactase persistence phenotype which is not very reliable, not
on genetic data. It is likely to be wrong just on demographic growth alone in
the last 40 years. My guess is around 15% of the worlds population is actually
able to digest lactose in adulthood.

------
curiousfab
Interesting read!

In the context of the recent rise of awareness for animal rights,
environmental problems of dairy production and last but not least the
discussion about health effects of Milk, I am not sure if the last sentence
holds true :-)

"But one argument that seems to have been finally set to rest is that milk and
butter are no longer just for barbarians."

~~~
Falling3
I was about to say something similar. Obviously the language is a little
strong for the consumers of these products. But if we take an honest look at
the tremendous amount of unnecessary cruelty endemic to the dairy industry, I
think barbaric is one of the kinder words that springs to mind.

~~~
mitchty
> But if we take an honest look at the tremendous amount of unnecessary
> cruelty endemic to the dairy industry, I think barbaric is one of the kinder
> words that springs to mind.

As someone that grew up on a dairy ranch/farm, barbaric isn't something that
springs to mind.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Was yours a fully industrialized factory farm? Family farms are a very
different thing, and unfortunately they're a tiny minority in the industry at
the moment.

~~~
mitchty
Family farm. I'd still consider it to be a part of the dairy industry however,
we sold milk just like anyone else. There were a few bigger operations around,
but they weren't much different.

~~~
PhasmaFelis
I'm glad your local farms weren't like that, but there are mountains of
evidence that the big factory farms that provide the vast majority of our
animal products _are_ barbaric. I'm not a vegetarian, so I can hardly judge
anyone, but you really should look into the facts of modern factory farming
and see for yourself.

------
wirrbel
In turkish cuisine, butter and olive oil are both used, depending on the dish.
I always found that fascinating because it goes against the stereotype of a
olive-oil-based mediteranean diet.

As a person from southern germany, I always use clarified butter for frying
meat (unless I explicitly follow a recipe that calls for oil). Whenever I am
in parts of the world for some time that don't feature it as a product in the
dairy section of the supermarket, I go to an indian store and buy some ghee.

I wouldn't be surprised if large parts of populations always also used butter
if they had dairy. It may not always be the prestigious choice, but I suspect
no one let it go to waste.

~~~
makmanalp
> I always found that fascinating because it goes against the stereotype of a
> olive-oil-based mediteranean diet

That might have a lot to do with the hugely diverse cultural influences in the
region over the centuries though

~~~
wirrbel
also the turks / selcuks being a pastoral people when migrating to anatolia.
Although seldom in the 21st century, there are still some people in anatolia
leading half-nomadic lives (at least that is what I was told on my last
vacation in Antalya).

~~~
makmanalp
Definitely!

------
bobosha
This article notably leaves out India - where since ancient times the cow and
milk & butter have been venerated. Milk, Curds were considered an integral
part of the ancient Indian person's diet.

------
INTPenis
Being from Croatia but living in Sweden I've always been fascinated by lactose
intolerance.

Numbers say that it's much more prevalent where my family comes from compared
to here up north. Swedes can often drink regular milk well into their
adulthood while many of my peers from former yugoslavia stop drinking it in
their 20s or 30s.

I recently found one study[1] claiming it has nothing to do with being a
"swede" but rather that lactose tolerant peoples have migrated to northern
europe. Why they've chosen to migrate there is beyond me though.

I can understand their argument though, that cows milk has not existed long
enough in northern europe to have affected the population. But that doesn't
mean the population wasn't already tolerant before cows came along.

Edit: Reason this article made me think of lactose intolerance is because
romans were disgusted specifically by northern tribes, perhaps the northern
climate does something for lactose tolerance.

I know other cultures like Bulgarians are also mentioned.

1\.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22643754](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22643754)

~~~
toasterlovin
> I can understand their argument though, that cows milk has not existed long
> enough in northern europe to have affected the population. But that doesn't
> mean the population wasn't already tolerant before cows came along.

FYI, human evolution has been ongoing in recent history and the gene that
bestows lactose tolerance on most Northern Europeans is one of the fastest
spreading adaptations that scientists who study ancient genomes have found.
IIRC, that gene first showed up about 4,000 years ago.

As to why lactose tolerance is more prevalent the farther north you go, I
think the generally accepted reason is that harsher winters required more
dependence on pastoral animals, since they are a good way to store calories.
If you can get a regular supply of calories out of them without killing them,
even better.

------
crazybit
Ancient Geeks knew about and drank milk. It's literally mentioned in Homer's
The Odyssey, where Odysseus takes milk on one of his quests. Cheese is also
mentioned, multiple times.

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evincarofautumn
I can definitely imagine the stereotype being caused by a combination of
climate differences and lactose intolerance with ethnic prejudice. That is:

—“I hear they take a lot of milk, butter, and cheese, every day!”

—“Every day?! But those things spoil so fast, they must be eating rotten milk
all the time—and it’s so bad for the digestion, they must always have
flatulence and diarrhea. Ugh, those barbarians are so gross.”

------
jaclaz
>and most—but certainly not all—of Italy, olive oil dominates and butter is
rarely used.

Loosely, in Italy a line is drawn just North of Bologna, recipes coming from
North use "butter", South use "olive oil" _mainly_.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I like to cook with a 50/50 combination - the oil helps the butter not to
burn!

------
8bitsrule
_The Romans often commented on the inferiority of other cultures, and they
took excessive milk drinking as evidence of barbarism._

Hah! I remember another empire that was like that only about 50 years ago. Now
it falls way down the list on countless measures of quality ... and yet still
thinks it's tops.

At least the barbarians weren't imbibing lead each day.

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0mp
TFW the button to consent to tracking on Atlas Obscura is just
"javascript:void(0)". This is not how it's supposed to be done, right?

~~~
twiss
Since the dialog closes when you click it, that's clearly not everything
there's to it. It also sets the ao_cookies_ok cookie to 1.

