
World's tallest skyscraper to be built in just 90 days - bitcartel
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57552186-1/developer-reaffirms-plan-to-finish-worlds-tallest-building-in-90-days
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ChuckMcM
This should be interesting to watch, as others have noted on the 30 story
building they did it is both 'boring' since the floors are mostly identical,
and largely built off site and then simply erected. I'm sure The Register will
call it the "worlds fastest erection" :-).

At the MIT affordable housing design competition there were some entrants that
had similar features. (pre-fab sections, erected on site relatively rapidly)
By pre-wiring/plumbing the walls and floors you cut out a lot of things that
slow people down. Having watched Hotels get built in Las Vegas really rapidly
(for them, which is 18 months, ground breaking to opening night) you could see
there are lots of things that can be disrupted. Staging carpet for example,
when you start carpeting its rolls and rolls and rolls of carpet, lifted by
crane to various floors, and later cut to order. If you install the floor with
all the carpeting already installed at the factory you've managed to
parallelize floor construction and finishing. That is a huge savings.

This building will house 31,400 people, (@ 11M sq ft that is like 350 sq ft
per person so not really roomy) But an interesting way to throw together
shelter. Building these things for Haiti could do wonders for that country,
assuming they don't burn down.

~~~
mbenjaminsmith
I don't know if building cheap housing really solves any problems however.
C.f., the famous housing "projects" in Chicago. You can replace those with any
low-income housing project anywhere in the world and see the same effects. You
might put roofs over people's heads but you create a new set of problems by
throwing all of those marginally functional people together. I imagine
increasing population density would just amplify those problems.

This building is supposed to have a mix of low and high income housing (how
does that work?) as well as schools and other social services. Given that
space in China is _not_ at a premium I don't think you can call this anything
but a social experiment. Maybe if it works they can export it to HK where it
might actually be useful. (Though it does conjure images of a sort of neo-
Walled City.)

Given that this type of construction produces boring, utilitarian space I
don't understand why they're not using it for offices. I imagine this would be
much more tolerable as office space and the footprint / usable space ratio
would make sense for commercial districts.

~~~
JungleGymSam
I think it may be worth considering that the discipline and follow-the-herd
mentality of Chinese people is a lot different than those of Americans who
would qualify for "the projects" style housing.

~~~
potatolicious
You may not have intended it that way, but I do find this comment to be rather
racist. The stereotype that the Chinese are "follow the herd" is both untrue
and damaging. Us Chinese have a hard enough time being taken seriously in the
West, what with stereotypes of a hive mind and mindless obedience to
authority, and this doesn't help.

~~~
JungleGymSam
I definitely didn't mean it that way but if thought it was "racism" you should
read up on what racism is. To call out the differences between two cultures is
not racism. Having said that, Asian culture has been, and is still very much,
strongly influenced by the ideas of honor and shame. That's much less the case
here in the US and that is what I was pointing out.

I find it interesting that you didn't take offense to my generalization of the
"Americans who would qualify for 'the projects'". Why is that?

~~~
vacri
You may wish to follow your own advice there. Calling out the differences
between cultures is a fundamental part of racism - "we're better than them and
their funny ways". Yes, it can be done in a non-racist way, but the way you've
phrased it is just plain wrong.

 _I find it interesting that you didn't take offense to my generalization of
the "Americans who would qualify for 'the projects'"._

[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oppression%20...](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oppression%20Olympics)

~~~
JungleGymSam
What?

It sounds like you've really misunderstood my comment(s).

~~~
vacri
I'm saying that you have a peverse understanding of what racism is, and that
you should 'read up on racism'.

Your first paragraph is saying that calling out differences in two cultures
isn't racist. This isn't true. Yes it can be done differently, but if you
start talking about 'fried chicken and watermelon' (as an example), you're
talking about the difference between two cultures, yours and the stereotyped
one you're referring to.

The second paragraph was a straight-out derailment:"oh, if you're really
against racism, why aren't you against this other kind?", the subtext being
that the speaker is biased or selfish because they didn't evenly address the
other potentially racist stuff.

Seriously, if you're going to be correcting others on 'what racism is', you do
need to spend some more time reading up on it. There's a few subtleties that
have bypassed you, from your comment above.

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ericHosick
Working on an app a while back, I watched people constructing a building
outside of my office window. Watching hundreds of people working together,
they got that thing up in around six months.

I looked at how far we had gotten on the software we were working on in the
same time period. It was, frankly, disheartening.

~~~
nandemo
In one of his talks Alan Kay compares software development with civil
engineering, claiming the former is still at the level of pyramid building.

~~~
drsim
There are certainly similarities, but civil engineering when compared to
software engineering methodologies is closer to waterfall. And waterfall isn't
the most efficient way to turn out software.

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twelvechairs
Whilst putting up a building at speed is a great marvel, it should be noted
that what holds this kind of prefabrication back is not generally
technological innovation but the reality that transporting prefabricated
components to site is often more expensive than just building them in place.
If this ever really gets built and isn't one giant PR excercise ('tallest
building' proposals have a long history as such), it will require a huge
factory space of temporary workers not far from the base of the building
basically doing all the usual building tasks and won't be any cheaper than a
traditional slow concrete construction which requires long times to dry
(unless they are hiding something more fundamentally important than the
headline from us).

~~~
lmm
I was under the impression it was mostly regulation holding prefabrication
back (presumably less of an issue in china). Here in the UK many (admittedly
somewhat low-quality) prefabs were built immediately after the war to replace
lost housing, and it was seen as the way forward - then they suddenly became
illegal once they were no longer such an obvious necessity.

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bofussing
A 220 floor building is a hugely complex engineering feat to pull off which
will have little in common with the 30 floor hotel that Broad previously
manufactured and erected. The difference cannot be overstated; from the
structural elements needed to support something approaching 3000 feet
(including the sheer loads from wind) to the highly specialised services
required (lifts, water, drainage, fire services, power distribution etc.). On
top of this there are the technicalities and logistics of manufacturing and
assembling something this big and tall in such a short time. There will be a
lot of specialist and custom engineering involved.

So what is the point? If Broad's mission is manufacture cost effective, easy
to erect and energy efficient tower blocks then the 220/F monster seems an
unlikely direction to take. The average tower block in any but the most
crowded city is unlikely to much over 30 floors. And from a cost and energy
efficiency standpoint there are diminishing returns on very tall buildings
anyway.

All in all I think this is more of a publicity stunt than a reality.

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alwaysinshade
Using this fabrication method on a smaller/safer scale would be great for the
Australian construction industry. There's so much regulation and risk-
assignment involved in construction that only the biggest players can afford
to bid and execute on a medium-large project. The result is little innovation,
lengthy project completion times and high costs.

Forget the construction companies for a moment - the amount of training and
accreditation required for a tradesman (e.g. electrician) is unheard of
anywhere else in the world. My friend has three different Working at Heights
tickets, and the various state licenses have cost him a small fortune.

If we could shift much of the fabrication to local factories/warehouses where
working at height and weather exposure can be reduced or eliminated, we might
be able to encourage more competition and speed up production times.

~~~
D_Alex
>Using this fabrication method on a smaller/safer scale would be great for the
Australian construction industry.

Agreed (though why smaller?). Do you know people who might be interested in
looking into this?

~~~
alwaysinshade
Smaller, relative to this megastructure, because its a new fabrication process
- better to see how it performs on a smaller-scale both in terms of
desirability (is it pretty - will people happily work/live in it) and
structural integrity. Plus there needs to be demand for huge amounts space.

I know people from the engineering side of things who would be interested.

~~~
D_Alex
I also know people who may be interested. I put my email in my profile, if you
want to look into this, send me a note.

------
forbes
The more impressive headline will be "World's tallest skyscraper constructed
in just 90 days." The Burj Khalifa took five and a half years to complete.
Even completing this new building in twice the predicted time will be
remarkable.

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wolf550e
It seems to me that many (most?) rooms in that building will not have windows
and most of those that do have windows will not have windows that open. So
this building might as well be underground.

~~~
javert
I bet not. Rather than just building a big "square", the image depicts a shape
that provides a lot of outside surface area for windows. A significant part of
the internal non-window space will be elevators.

But you could be right.

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oxwrist
Awesome feature by Wired about the man behind this:
[http://www.wired.com/design/2012/09/broad-sustainable-
buildi...](http://www.wired.com/design/2012/09/broad-sustainable-building-
instant-skyscraper/all/)

HN discussion: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4574100>

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ck2
China also has entire empty cities, some newly constructed:

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19049254>

<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1339536/>

So one has to ask why.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Simple: Changsha is not an empty city.

~~~
mkr-hn
I always assumed the stories about empty cities were like street interviews.
Pick what fits the target narrative and toss the rest, even if the rest
contradicts the narrative.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
There is a lot of truth the empty city/empty building story, mostly just
classic overbuilding. Its just not the issue in Changsha, which is a booming
city coming into its own right now (though they may be overbuilding). I've
only been there once about 10 years ago, but I go to Hunan relatively often.
Its not like Inner Mongolia where you could just build an empty city on the
plains. The area is heavily populated.

~~~
mkr-hn
It's always good to hear straight from people who aren't a continent or more
removed from the subject. Where's a good place to look if I want to find out
more about the real estate situation around China?

~~~
seanmcdirmid
I'm not sure, China is a big place and many local factors apply.

Natural resources in the west and northwest dominate, which is why there are
ghost boom towns (people looking to do something with that money).
Shanghai/Guangzhou are financial centers and become incredibly expensive,
Beijing is the center of government but will always trail Shanghai. The south
is dense but not that much arable land (compared to say India, China is mostly
mountains). Yunnan (out west) has great weather and ethnic diversity; you'd
think Kunming could eventually become China's San Francisco but capital and
skillz are all concentrated in the east.

You could probably pick a city or region and analyze it to death.

------
quorn3000
> using 95 percent prefabricated modular pieces that are sort of similar to a
> giant Lego set

What terrible writing.

------
james33
Isn't this the same group that had one of their '90-day' buildings collapse
not long ago?

~~~
forrestthewoods
A variety of buildings have collapsed in China in recent years. Here's one
good example with great pictures. I don't know if it's the same company or
not.

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196064/Tumbling-
tow...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196064/Tumbling-tower-China-
Amazing-pictures-13-storey-block-flats-toppled-over.html)

~~~
wisty
And that's not a 90 day pre-fab building. IIRC, they had a dodgy underground
carpark, which subsided. It had nothing to do with the actual building.

Also, the pre-fabs they are starting to build have a lot of steel, which is
easy to engineer. Concrete can be more difficult to get right, especially when
you don't trust the suppliers (bamboo rebar anyone?).

~~~
seanmcdirmid
But concrete buildings are so common in China because they can be assembled
with low-level migrant workers. The move to steel typically requires much
higher-level expertise, and so only the tallest buildings get that treatment.
But with prefab, this is interesting, they might be able to continue using
low-level migrant workers in the factory and during assembly?

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blahedo
That's not a building, that's an arcology.

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smackfu
Note that the article says "90 days to finish" or "90 days to complete", NOT
"90 days to build".

The site prep work like foundations for a supertall skyscraper are easily
glossed over but are very important.

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sazpaz
This is being built under the same principles that we build software on. I
think that it is huge that many industries are using what I would call DRY
development on their manufacturing.

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ck2
WTF is with the phallus symbol race for biggest buildings around the world.

How about a contest for the least warmongering nation with the most free,
productive people?

Denmark? Norway? Costa Rica?

~~~
lucian1900
That would be much harder to evaluate. Measuring tall things is pretty
straightforward.

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freddealmeida
I'm noticing this trend in numerous projects. Clients expect so much in 90
days. Sigh.

Pretty impressive if they can do it.

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ComputerGuru
I almost had a heart attack when I saw that picture of it in Chicago. It would
be such a monstrosity and a real blemish to the the subtlety of the current
skyline. Fortunately, that's just CNet being creative and this is far, far
away from Chicago.

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sown
Can someone summarize how they manage to do this?

I once read that it involved that they sell a product rather than a service. I
don't know where I read that but I'm curious why this doesn't apply more often
to other products?

------
riffraff
did anyone else notice that the two pictures show different buildings?

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stonekeeper09
What could possibly go wrong?

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gaborcselle
Is there enough demand for office space in Changsa to support this structure?

~~~
ramate
Apparently the housing market there is doing better than much of China's real
estate market, but that isn't saying much. The growth of inland cities like
Changsa has traditionally been slower than the coastal giants (pretty
intuitive) but now with further central government investment, an increased
infrastructure the growth is really picking up. The real problem with this
building though is that there are increasing costs the larger a building gets
from increased maintenance, climate control systems, etc. and it doesn't scale
linearly with size. The question here is whether to have one monolithic
building or several large buildings. I'd imagine the latter is the better bet,
but the cost savings from the modular build may largely outweigh this.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
A lot of it has to do with face though. Hunan/Changsha get lots of face
projects because they are the home of Mao. Changsha itself is at best a second
tier city and not really even on the level as Wuhan or (definitely) Guangzhou
that it lies between.

Looking at the designs, the building looks like it will be an eye soar pretty
quickly, on par with the Ryugyong.

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sixQuarks
I call B.S. on this

~~~
ChuckMcM
Actually not BS, see the Broad Group's web site and their timelapse of the
'demo' project [1]. They don't count the time to put in the foundation and
drive the pilings, just the erection part. That part consists entirely of
lifting pre-fabricated sections in place, connecting pipes and wires, welding
to the rest of the building and moving on to the next one.

[1] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdpf-
MQM9vY&noredirect=1](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdpf-MQM9vY&noredirect=1)

~~~
sixQuarks
I've seen that already, and yes, it's impressive, but watch and see, this
isn't going to be built in 90 days, or next year. Probably never.

