

Ask HN: Quitting in the middle of the project? - mannicken

Hi,<p>I'm working at a company, which loves overtime. People work 60+ hours/wk on a regular basis, I log in around 40-50 and am one of the slackers. One time I left the office at 6am on Sunday, while one of my coworkers left; then I came back at 10am to a meeting and it turns out he just pulled an all-nighter. Last week I left at 1 on sunday, the rest of the team stayed until the dawn.<p>These deadlines are driving me insane. I told pretty much everyone I'm not coming on Saturday. Told them I'll be on Skype.<p>Of course, on Saturday I received a bunch of text messages and phone calls from my manager, saying how  uncool it is of me to skip work, and how irritated they are with my behavior. I said my pupils are dilated from an eye exam so I can't drive from another city (an hour drive). The reply: Take the bus.<p>I mean, this isn't funny anymore. I do not hold stake in the company, the job isn't that exciting and does nothing for my resume and my hourly rate is at the lowest point in three years.<p>Quite frankly, I just want to quit right now, and study art or something full-time, since I'm not even sure I like coding anymore.<p>I would really appreciate some opinions.
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dkersten
If my bosses don't appreciate me, I quit. Based ONLY on the "take the bus"
comment, I would set up a private meeting with your boss and tell him/her that
you don't like their attitude and how you are treated, that you are extremely
unhappy and that if it doesn't change immediately, you will quit (and I would
follow through if there are no changes over the next week or so).

Now, factoring in everything else doesn't leave them in a strong position. I
don't mind working long hours, or even on weekends, BUT I have to be rewarded
for doing so. If I am doing more than normally (in your contract, or in
similarly or better paying jobs that you can easily get elsewhere) expected,
then I expect to be rewarded and appreciated for doing so. Telling you to take
the bus doesn't show much appreciation, so I'd say screw it, mid project or
not, and leave.

\--- _You're health, well-being and happiness are much more important than
their project._ \---

(Ironically, it has just hit 7am as I write this, but at least I've been up
all night because I wanted to, not because somebody is asking or expecting me
to)

EDIT: After rereading what you said, it looks like you already know the
answer:

" _I mean, this isn't funny anymore. I do not hold stake in the company, the
job isn't that exciting and does nothing for my resume and my hourly rate is
at the lowest point in three years._ "

If you can (that is, if you have enough money to survive however long it will
take to find a new job), then _I_ would definitely quit. If you can't, then
you should get your CV/Resume out to companies right away and save as much as
you can until you either get another job, or have enough money to survive
until you do.

------
cperciva
Quit. Right now. There's no reason to put up with that sort of crap.

(If that isn't enough for you, look at it this way: Your boss abuses his
employees because he gets away with it. If you quit, there's a chance that
you'll stop someone else being abused like this.)

------
patio11
No single decision ever improved my life as much as quitting my day job, which
had a similar attitude with regards to time.

Quit.

------
T-R
It's all about your your BATNA - what's your best alternative? What do you
need that they're giving you, and what other options offer it? Do you _need_
the income? How else could you get enough income before you need it? If you
don't quit immediately, at least start making plans and preparations now. If
you don't need the income - if you need a resume boost or something, there are
lots of other ways to do that.

I was in this exact situation last year. I decided I could finish my part of
the project in two months if I took on no other work, so I set a deadline and
told them I would be leaving on it. Everything got much easier after that - I
knew I had a plan, the end was in sight, and they stopped piling on _new_
work, so I was able to finish my part of the project and leave with a clean
conscience (of course, your mileage may vary).

------
kaisdavis
If you hate what you're doing and have the financial reserves to survive 4-6
months of unemployment, quit right now.

* You don't owe them anything * They, as a company and individuals, do not love you * This isn't what you're passionate about

If you have the finances to survive for 4-6 months and no (or manageable)
debt, I say quit.

~~~
mannicken
No debt, lease expires soon, savings for ~3 months.

~~~
kaisdavis
* Can you talk to them?

Is the company DNA so focused on 60-70hrs/wk that there is no middle ground?

* Can you negotiate a raise?

You say that you're earning the least per-hour you have for 3 careers. Can you
negotiate up? Sure, you hate it now, but if you were earning another
10-20k/year, would you still hate it as much?

* Can you get fired?

If you just work 40hrs/wk, will you get fired? Would you mind that?

* Can you stay on and build a network?

Can you keep drawing a paycheck, working 40-50/wk, and build a network to find
another job or entrance to an art program?

~~~
mannicken
1\. Yes. I said that I have nothing to do there, I don't see the point of
coming just to hangout. The reply was that they'll find something for me to
do. The manager took it as their fault, as if if they're unable to find work
for everyone until they collapse on the couch they're not doing their job.

2\. No. I hate it.

3\. I don't mind being fired. If I work 40hrs/wk I'll keep getting terrorized
with voicemails and text messages in the evening and on weekend. It sucks.

4\. I signed up for a bunch of art classes at colleges in the evening, but
quitting will allow me to expand that into day as well.

~~~
shailesh
You should quit immediately. Also, please see cperciva's comment above.

Take a complete break for one full week, before making the next move. That
will help you take a better decision on what to do the next. Go and meet deep
personal friends, you'll need them while you decompress your mind.

After that, start networking like a maniac, showcase your skills in
communicating with {people,computers}. While you're searching for the next
job, it is a great help to be a part-time faculty at a computer institute.

Good luck.

------
Skywing
I guess it all just depends on what you value. Personally, I thought I really
wanted to find a job in California doing programming. I finally got this job
that I thought would be everything that I had dreamed of, and shortly after
moving 1500 miles away I really got the chance to learn what I truly valued. I
found that it wasn't being in CA, or money or even working for a cool, young
company - it was being around the people that mattered to me, my family and
friends, my pets back home, the city that I was familiar with. I was very
unhappy because I was so far from these things. Talking on the phone and using
Skype only reinforced my desire to move back. Being told to just endure it for
a year or more only made me wonder why I should need to put myself through
something I disliked so much. So, against just about most logical reasoning
from a business and resume standpoint, I quit the job and packed up my car and
hit the road back east in one day. I don't regret it one bit and am much
happier because I made that decision. I did have a job that welcomed me back,
though, so this helped.

It sounds like your situation is mostly against the company itself, whereas
mine had nothing to do with the work, but perhaps this story of mine can help
you somehow. :P

------
brudgers
It's one thing to work long hours during crunch time, another to work long
hours week in and week out.

The situation isn't being driven by the project demands, it is being created
by the company culture.

Time to move on.

------
bendmorris
You don't owe them anything. If you don't like the environment (and who
would?) then get out of there. That's what I did.

Don't let a crappy job spoil coding for you, though. Try working on something
you enjoy for a while and see if that helps.

On the subject of working overtime, a lot of smart people don't think it's
efficient [1], and I tend to agree - if you work too many hours, your actual
productivity during those hours plummets. People need rest. Is there some
reason that a 40 hour week is not enough time to get things done? If so, maybe
there's a problem with the company's methodology (screwing around and then
having marathon sessions before deadlines?) or maybe they are setting
unrealistic goals. Either way, not a company I'd want to work for.

[1] <http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000339.html>

------
triviatise
People don't change. However I think it would still be professional of you to
talk it over with your boss and then work out when would be a good time for
you to leave on good terms. I would give a minimum of two weeks and offer to
train the replacement on contract (at a higher rate to encourage them not to
continue to use you).

------
wewyor
Sounds like everyone else expects something that you aren't willing to give;
either discuss this with the managers or bosses and see if something can
change, or give your notice and find something else.

I'm assuming you have the ability to quit from what you wrote.

------
Dnguyen
Sounds like you already checked out. Life is short, go find something you're
happy with. If it's a short period of time I can understand, but if it's a
prolong issue, I'd have to say management is to blame. If a company is not
looking out for the well being of its employee, I say high tail out of there.
There are many other companies out there that you can work and have a life.
Sounds like you are suffering from a burnout. I hope you'll find coding fun
again. Good luck!

------
jister
Quit man. Why would you kill yourself over a project?

