
A Chinese electric car is coming to the US - prostoalex
https://qz.com/1500303/chinas-qiantu-will-be-first-chinese-electric-carmaker-to-challenge-tesla-in-the-us/
======
btilly
As I pointed out in
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18632319](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18632319),
established ICE car companies are going to find that their electric cars are
facing a headwind because it is not in their dealers' interests to sell car
that require less maintenance. So they aren't a real source of competition for
Tesla.

However a pure electric company that has established itself in another
country, THAT can potentially give Tesla a run for its money!

This will be interesting to watch.

~~~
clouddrover
> _established ICE car companies are going to find that their electric cars
> are facing a headwind because it is not in their dealers ' interests to sell
> car that require less maintenance._

I'm not convinced by this. Nissan's been selling the Leaf for 8 years now. All
manufacturers are moving to non-ICE cars because they have to. Customers want
them and legislation has been introduced in various countries and cities which
will ban ICE cars in future. Aston Martin, for example, has an electric
conversion program so you can keep driving your vintage car after the bans are
introduced:

[https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-
cars/a25414...](https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-
cars/a25414229/aston-martin-heritage-ev/)

Dealerships are going to have to sell electric cars or stop being in the car
dealership business.

What probably will happen though is that the auto mechanic industry as a whole
will contract as electric vehicles become more common.

~~~
corey_moncure
I'll tell you my true experience with my LEAF.

I bought my used 2013 leaf at a sticker price of around ~9,500 USD before
taxes and fees. A few months in, I began to experience an issue with the
braking system. After depressing the brake pedal and slowing to a stop, the
pedal would sink slowly, and the car could creep forward again until I applied
more pressure. After enough cycles of this I'd have pushed the pedal all the
way down, and there would be no way to hold the stop. I immediately set up an
appointment with the local licensed Nissan dealer for maintenance, and began
putting the car in park at intersections.

I noted that the brake fluid was very low, but not empty, when I brought the
car in. I figured all it needed was to be refilled, but there were some other
minor squawks I wanted to have them look at.

After service, the rep sat me down and explained that the part that balances
brake force between the regenerative and friction braking systems "had
failed", and this part was going to cost nearly $2000 to replace. He clearly
represented to me that the maintenance mechanics had uncovered a problem with
this part, that it was failed, and absolutely necessary to replace. I paid for
the appointment and said I'd have to think about the replacement part.

I looked over the paperwork very carefully and there were no error codes in
the testing results. I've been driving the car for over a year since with no
issues. The problem with the brake pedal resulted from low brake fluid, which
they topped off during the maintenance.

I've resolved not to take the car to the dealer for any issue unless I
absolutely can't handle it myself, which I'm guessing means "never".

So I definitely give credence to the idea that the electric cars are a threat
to maintenance revenue.

~~~
snowwindwaves
The Brake fluid reservoir level becomes low when the fluid leaks out somewhere
in the system. Brake fluid isn't something that is consumed in normal
operation. When fluid can be pushed out as a leak that is lost force that is
not applied to stopping. When fluid can get out air can get in and air is
compressible so this makes the hydraulic braking system feel spongy.

Adding more fluid and bleeding the air out of the system may temporarily make
it seem like there is no problem but if you note the level dropping then you
ought to find the leak or you risk losing control of your vehicle and run in
to some thing or some one. I can't believe it got so bad you were putting it
in park at intersections. That is really dangerous!!

~~~
jacquesm
Could be. But what also could be is that during a previous maintenance visit a
part of the brake system was replaced which led to loss of some fluid and they
forgot to top it off.

After all, if there is a leak in the system OP would not be able to drive the
car for a year without the issue recurring.

~~~
ams6110
In a disc brake system, the brake fluid level will become lower due to normal
wear on the pads. Often an indicator that pads are worn is that the low brake
fluid warning light will illuminate on the dashboard.

If you top up the fluid at that point, everything will seem normal, but the
pads will continue to wear until the friction material is entirely gone.

Sinking pedal while stopped can also be caused by leaking seals in the master
cylinder.

So yes, low fluid level is either an indication of pad wear or a leak, it's
not a normal condition and if you don't know the cause, you should take it to
a shop that can check it out.

~~~
imtringued
>If you top up the fluid at that point, everything will seem normal, but the
pads will continue to wear until the friction material is entirely gone.

No, nothing will seem normal if your brake pads are worn out. Depending on
your care your brake pads are designed in a way that an electrical signal is
activated or they make a loud noise before they wear out completely.

------
hawflakes
"Qiantu (the name is Chinese for Dragonfly)" Small nit. "Qiantu" is not
Chinese for "dragonfly." "Qiantu" (前途) means "future outlook", "prospects", or
"journey."

For the record, "qingting" (蜻蜓) is the Chinese word for "dragonfly."

~~~
ximeng
This article
[http://www.sohu.com/a/246081485_119218](http://www.sohu.com/a/246081485_119218)
says it's just because the QT is shared between the company name qiantu and
the logo qingting.

~~~
paraditedc
That explains it. In this case Dragonfly sounds more like a nickname rather
than the official name.

As seen in one of photos in the sohu link, the English spelling is Qiantu, not
Dragonfly or Qingting.

------
jonnybgood
> No Chinese brand has managed to break into the US market and establish
> itself as one that Americans will trust.

Probably for good reason. My city did a huge development project for a new
rapid transit line that featured electric buses from a Chinese manufacturer.
All the infrastructure is complete except the buses were absolute crap and
sent back. So we have all this new multimillion dollar development on a main
street of the city and no buses.

~~~
neuronic
Source [1] is German, so I realize few people will be able to read this
without Google Translate, but I want to post this anyway:

The Hamburg public transit organization "Hochbahn" has thoroughly evaluated
purchasing electric busses from Chinese manufacturer (BYD - Build Your Dream)
which apparently has 400k operating e-busses around the world. Hamburg has
several transit lines which serve as frontier for operating novel technologies
in actual service while keeping potential negative effects limited.

They have actively decided against them, although these busses are available
NOW as opposed to future European alternatives. Main reasons really seem to be
complete crap standards and general lack of Chinese regard for the European
market.

[1] [https://dialog.hochbahn.de/bus-in-zukunft/warum-wir-nicht-
ei...](https://dialog.hochbahn.de/bus-in-zukunft/warum-wir-nicht-einfach-e-
busse-aus-china-kaufen/)

EDIT: Hochbahn recently received their first European E-busses.

~~~
bassman9000
_complete crap standards_

Care to expand? Euro standards being crap, or manufacturer's?

I'd thought that one of the roadblocks for chinese products would be the lack
of US/EU certifications.

~~~
neuronic
Apologies for late reply. I have listed the issues for you that Hochbahn has
summarised in their public statements. Following points are at the very least
not satisfactory, some are almost seen as fraudulent claims from BYD:

\- Passenger comfort, spacing in the busses, quality of used materials,
information systems

\- No regard or interest for European market and no licenses

\- Batteries are not sufficient for actual service, listed capacities are not
representative of normal use due to variables in traffic, weather, road
conditions, driver performance, air conditioning

\- BYD faces criticism for many issues with their busses such as reported
inability to drive up hills

\- BYD seems to report battery capacity at twice (!) of their practical
capacity in every day use

\- BYD busses have reduced life spans, making their e-busses even more
uneconomic

These are problems of early/novel e-busses but it effectively leads to the
inability to deliver a service at the quality that German customers demand.
There is simply no way that anyone will be ok with getting out of a bus into
the rain/snow, walking the rest of the track because the battery suddenly ran
out earlier than expected.

------
bschwindHN
So why should anyone trust the software on these things?

From the same news website:

[https://qz.com/1490376/chinas-electric-cars-are-
government-s...](https://qz.com/1490376/chinas-electric-cars-are-government-
spies/)

I realize there's little the Chinese government can do if you're not in their
country, but to what extent do they have control over the car? The same
concerns go for Tesla so please don't "what about Tesla?" me.

I'm all for electric cars, but perhaps foreign markets shouldn't so readily
accept 2 ton computers running software straight from China. How much analysis
on the software can one feasibly do to ensure nothing fishy is going on?

------
torgian
The dealership model is so crappy. You can go to a website and order a car,
but you’re still directed to a dealer.

Like Japan, you go to a dealer, and they don’t even have cars (or a very
limited amount as just ‘show cars’). You order them custom made.

I think these places make money, enough to pay workers and bills, because they
are essentially owned by the local factories. Not by people. But I am probably
wrong about that.

Dealerships should only exist for used cars, IMO.

~~~
Pristina
>because they are essentially owned by the local factories.

And who own those factories, if not people?

~~~
taneq
In most of the world, corporations don't count as people.

------
newnewpdro
If they deliver on a fast and light relatively unsafe EV, free of all this
pervasive surveillance/autonomous garbage, at a competitive price point, I'm
buying one.

~~~
taneq
Yeah, give me a decent-handling battery electric drivetrain and chassis that I
can hack and I'm in!

------
freshfey
When I visited China a couple of months ago we saw many different electric car
brands and ICE car brands.

We spoke with our didi driver about his interior (ICE car) that looked very
similar to BMW and he said that these are actually BMW parts but this car
could never sell in another country (I assumed due to the build quality). It
looked like a normal car from the outside, nothing spectacular.

However there are a lot of electric cars both on the streets and showcased in
the malls that look really, really good. The stores are kept similar to Tesla
and Apple stores, very minimalistic, clean and comforting. I think these will
be exactly the brands that will make waves, once they fix certain issues and
enter the Western markets. Exciting times!

------
aphextron
A car that doesn't exist from a company with no other products.

~~~
izacus
Sounds like a Tesla?

~~~
kwhitefoot
In what respect?

------
echevil
So many Chinese car makers popped up in recent years. There're already NIO,
Byton, Xiaopeng. Never heard of this one before. I wonder how many there are.
:)

~~~
AzMoo_
There's well over 50 that operate inside of China.

~~~
ams6110
Are there really 50? Or is it 50 different brand names on the same two or
three products?

~~~
jpatokal
There are around 10 major car manufacturers in China, churning out products
under a constellation of brands.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_China)

------
Brajeshwar
Another Chinese EV Company, Xiaopeng Motors, is likely to launch their EV Cars
in India this coming year.

------
cauldron
Another PR campain, then the company can brag about "Even Americans buy our
cars, what are you worrying about?"

"Sold overseas" is like an honor badge, Chinese really buy it.

US media really should stop this aggressive fearmongering.

~~~
ToFab123
There probably also an aspect of annoying Donald Trump in the decision to
enter the US market.

~~~
cauldron
And I guess not long from now, you'd be able to buy from Aliexpress EVs made
out of Chinese back yards.

~~~
dis-sys
if you can't wait, you can always go to tmall.com, which is operated by the
exact same company, and get yourself this pink "car" delivered for $950 USD

[https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=568970816397](https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=568970816397)

~~~
singularity2001
hilarious! if I click on that pink button, will it arrive at my doorstep?

I honestly think this will be the future: buying products directly from
Chinese sites instead of Amazon. instead of fake product reviews you there
have vendor rankings.

~~~
cauldron
Oh honey, "fake product reviews" is mutiple times more rampant in China,
there's an entire industry.

~~~
singularity2001
Sure, but this should be reflected in vendor ratings?

At Amazon the vendor is not even clickable in the overview. And even after
clicking in the product page it does not show any vendor ratings(!?). This can
and should be solved via UI though.

------
King-Aaron
If it goes as well as it looks, I'll be keen.

Any new competitor in the electric car space is a welcome addition in my
opinion so long as it doesn't flop into vaporware.

