
Is it better to avoid washing your clothes? - lifeisstillgood
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-48908413
======
astura
> "Powder detergent creates more friction between the clothes [during
> washing], so more fibres are released, whereas liquid is smoother. The less
> friction there is in general, the fewer fibres are released."

Is this true or just something completely made up? Sounds like bs to me,
powdered detergent is not sand, it quickly dissolves when it comes in contact
with water.

~~~
grandinj
Funnily enough, a large part of it is actually clay (wet sand :-), sometimes a
clay called kaolin, mostly to give it a nice white color.

Whether that actually generates friction or not, I don't know

~~~
AstralStorm
No, at used temperatures kaolin will dissolve pretty well. However it does
clog filters and causes waste as it counters water softeners. Then you require
longer washing with longer drying cycle, which in fact does damage fibers.

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unwrap
Impossible if you have any skin conditions. I suffer from eczema (fortunately
mild now, but in the past I was seriously considering suicide), and one of the
things that reliably trigger a flare-up are unwashed clothes covered in dust
mite excrement. Neither sun nor cold will help with that, only good old
washing.

~~~
gattilorenz
Did your eczema improve due to age, or improved practices and/or medicine?

(I'm quite far away from considering suicide, but I wouldn't mind a better
quality of life)

~~~
layoutIfNeeded
I had severely dry skin and eczema to the point where my bedsheets were often
covered with bloody spots because I was constantly scratching while asleep...

What worked for me eventually was _not_ bathing/showering regularly. I started
showering at most 1-3 times a week but only with water, no soap, except on the
pubic areas for hygienic reasons. Might sound disgusting, but it turns out
that daily showering, especially with detergents, can harm your skin by
upsetting its microbiome.

I still have drier skin than other people, especially in winter, but my eczema
have pretty much disappeared.

However, if my eczema would return, I would definitely try out bleach washes:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite_washes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite_washes)

The studies endorsing dilute bleach baths came out well after my eczema
resolved, so I have no first-hand experience with it, but it sounds cheaper
and safer than corticosteroids.

~~~
aitchnyu
N=1, very mild symptoms etc, but I rinse with diluted apple cider vinegar
after shampoo and sometimes soap since the skin is naturally acidic. The
slight scalp itch goes away.

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alanfranz
And yet, stains happen. Smells accumulate on things we wear. I cycle to work
every day, shouldn't I wash my tshirts? Ask my coworkers!

The solution would be to stick to cotton, denim, wool, and limit synthetic
fibers. I cannot handwash everything.

~~~
yummybear
Proponents claim sticking them in the freezer kills the germs. I’m not sure
I’m convinced - I’d love to see some research om the topic.

~~~
gowld
It doesn't work on food why would it work on clothes?

Slow maybe, but not kill.

~~~
sudhirj
I don't think the bacteria are eating the clothes, they're probably eating
your sweat and shed skin. Leave them at it for a few days and they should
naturally starve.

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anbop
The one time I bought expensive jeans the guy told me to do this. Told me to
put them in the freezer instead of washing them to preserve their color.
Luckily I didn’t have to deal with the problem as I got too fat for the jeans
before they had the chance to fade.

~~~
n1c
I have a few pairs of expensive jeans that I wear _a lot_ and wash maybe once
every 12 months. They're great and don't smell or anything.

~~~
ubercow13
Don't they feel gross? I can feel when clothes are dirty, even thick pants,
and it's not very pleasant. I doubt putting them in the freezer fixes it.

~~~
n1c
Nah they feel great. On the occasion something happens like I hang out near a
fire and they get really smelly I just air them out for a day and it's back to
100%.

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lifeisstillgood
Ok a little tabloid-y but definitely piqued my intellectual curiousity. Not
that given how much I can sweat anyone will thank me for not washing but still
it's interesting to see such a simple ingrained idea (wash clothes) being
challenged with some degree of rationality - it reminds me of the question
what taboos are so engrained in our society we simply don't see them

~~~
NeedMoreTea
It's the old way of doing it though. Pre washing machine clothes wash tended
to be underwear only, and brush and air the rest. Partly because washing was a
more brutal process - boiling, wringing etc that the outer layers couldn't
handle.

~~~
ummonk
Eh? Maybe it was different in the West but in India everyone without washing
machines would still have their clothes hand washed.

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NeedMoreTea
There weren't man made fibres, so cotton or wool, silk if wealthy, was used
for underwear. Trousers, jackets, dresses, and the rest were mostly wool. Many
people only had two sets of outerwear - one of which was kept for outside work
and for church: their "Sunday best". Dyes were often non-colour fast.

Wool and silk doesn't like being boiled or wrung, or even heavily agitated.
Underwear didn't need to stay in shape, outerwear did. Cotton is far more
tolerant of violent washing.

India's climate would, no doubt, see far less use of wool and multiple layers,
far more of lighter weight cottons than Europe. Southern Europe probably
somewhere in between. :)

~~~
ummonk
Yeah, that makes sense. Wool also seems to have strong antimicrobial
properties so it doesn't really need frequent cleaning.

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fluxsauce
> recommends sticking jeans in the freezer in order to kill germs instead

That's a myth, freezing jeans in a consumer fridge does not kill bacteria. For
example, listeria can grow in both a refrigerator or a freezer.

Fortunately, the sun can kill bacteria, so take it outside and hang it to air.

~~~
angry_octet
The UV from the sun is what kills them, it's also great for breaking down dye
and fabrics. It is doubtful the UV will reach all the cracks and crevices.

~~~
strken
Slightly tangential, but can anyone on HN tell me what particle at what energy
is most effective for killing bacteria while leaving pants unharmed?
Presumably bombarding your jeans with gamma rays would work, but can those of
us without easy access to radioactive substances use a microwave instead?

~~~
numlock86
Yes, a microwave is very efficient at killing germs, if not one of the best
and most reliable solutions available to consumers. Just watch out carefully
for things on your jeans (or clothes in general) that you shouldn't put into a
microwave please, like buttons made of iron for example.

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kyleblarson
A rich heiress who has likely spent a lot of time on private jets in her
lifetime is pretty low on the list of people Ill take climate change advice
from.

~~~
UweSchmidt
It seems like there is a sense that environmental/climate problems affect
everyone, including wealthy people, and her ideas sound reasonable,
constructive and fair. An initiative to wash clothes in a way that causes less
ecological damage could very well come from the fashion industry (as it may
require new types of fabric etc.).

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

~~~
hnhg
The opposite of the ad hominem also applies. Why is she eminently qualified to
provide the correct answer to this particular problem?

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latch
Because she's a fashion designer and surely that's _one_ perspective worth
considering with respect to pretty much anything related to clothes? Not only
is she eminently qualified to talk about it from a fashion point of view, she
probably has good practical experience with fabrics and wear and tear
(longevity being one of the reasons she advises against it).

It's not like she's an actress telling people vaccines cause autism or
something.

~~~
AstralStorm
I'd take a word of a material engineer and chemical process engineer way over
anything she has to say... Fashion is not really a credential. They make
clothes, not break them.

~~~
UweSchmidt
Sure, as long as we are focussed on the issue and are mentally prepared to
change our ways a little bit, if needed.

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nanomonkey
I'm looking forward to a consumer grade Supercritical Carbon Dioxide Dry
cleaner. Dissolve out the oils trapped in your clothing, sterilize them and
perhaps deposit the oils where they can be used as fuel. It would probably
work for other items such as soiled machinery, oil extraction from herbs and
food, etc.

~~~
namibj
Kickstarter? But yeah, a small-scale device you can have in a regular self-
service laundromat would be great.

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dcsilver
Please let's not let not washing your clothes become the trendy thing to do.
Public transport can already smell bad enough. Just wash your clothes, keep
smelling like flowers and pick something else to be different about.

~~~
stinos
Not saying people shouldn't wash their clothes, but that flower (or other)
smell you seem to find pleasant isn't pleasant for everybody. Don't know why,
genetically probably, but I really dislike most synthetic smells. It's also
not just the smell but also the fact it's constantly there, sort of annoying
me. I'd rather have people wash their clothes using water (lots of clothes
don't seem dirty enough to really require soap, as far as I can tell) and then
hang them outside to dry. Though I realize that is not an option for the
majority of the population. But it would me nice if most of those products
would smell less, or if at least people would use less. It's not because the
marleting department of a product decides X is the right amount to advertise,
that it's also what is really required,.

~~~
madspindel
They don't need to wash with only water. The best solution would be to use
perfume free products for people with Asthma. I don't have Asthma but I always
buy products for sensitive skin with zero perfume and no colors.

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cs02rm0
Aren't we better off not using microfibre plastics to make clothes in the
first place?

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bjelkeman-again
Yeah, I have been thinking that too. But something like cotton also has a big
impact on the environment. I don’t have enough info to mske a meaningful
comparison of impacts though.
[http://www.theworldcounts.com/counters/cotton_environmental_...](http://www.theworldcounts.com/counters/cotton_environmental_impacts/environmental_issues_with_cotton)

~~~
hanniabu
Cotton doesn't have the same lingering looking lasting effects.

~~~
AstralStorm
It's all fine as long as your clothes are reused, even into rags. The very
flexible microfibers _probably_ are not a hazard on the level of
microplastics.

Edit: they actually do pose this exact problem, though the filter in washing
machine is supposed to catch all that. It doesn't.

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EGreg
The real problem is

There is NON BIODEGRADABLE plastic in everything!

Stop blaming the consumers. And start making plastic PRODUCERS pay the
negative externalities. Make an international fund to freaking tax the
polluters and redistribute to other countries to reward reforestation.

Same with carbon And everything else I am tired of plastic straw and bag BANS
while plastics and fossil fuels are used every day.

You will see biodegradable plastics appear faster than you can say “progress”.

It’s like Andrew Yang’s idea to tax the gun makers for each gun death.

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clumsysmurf
I haven't used a conventional laundry machine in about a year. The way I clean
things, everything looks brand new, the microplastics are captured, and stuff
is smelling good.

At first, I just used a 5 gallon bucket from Home Depot, put some clothes in
there, hot water, added All Free & Clear + Clorox2 Stain Remover and Color
Booster, then shook about 100 times.

More recently I use one of those hand-crank-turned contraptions* that rotates
on a stand (multiple are available from Amazon).

> But most importantly - never, ever, tumble dry.

When its time to dry things, I just hang them up on a drying rack and let them
drip into a caserole pan.

When the dripping is done (roughly 45 minutes) I re-arrange them for best
ventilation and point a small fan towards them, almost everything is dry
within 2 hours.

You can use a GuppyFriend micropastic bag to catch the microplastics.

What got me wondering the most is that the dyes often come out of the fabrics,
When you hand wash things its a bit more obvious. I wonder what their eventual
fate is.

* none of these are really that great, lots of room for improvement here.

~~~
astura
You don't rinse?

Sounds itchy.

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js8
I think we should be teaching how to care about the clothing properly kids in
school. I have learned it myself and I am sure I am doing it completely wrong.

Unfortunately, various industries don't really want you to know. They want to
sell you more stuff.

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CogitoCogito
> Instead, she says, the "rule" is to "let the dirt dry and you brush it off".

So her point is that people should just get used to wearing "dirty" clothes. I
think a better first start is to recalibrate what people mean by "dirty". Most
people I know (and certainly myself in the past) would usually wash many
clothes (shirts especially) after a single wear regardless of whether they
needed it. Now I only wash my clothes when they need it (which means there is
some stain or it smells).

Of course maybe we should get used to wearing clothes that are visibly dirty,
but there seem to be lower hanging fruit.

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numlock86
It's sad that the myth of freezers killing germs is still a thing. I wonder
how many deaths (or at least general "health incidents") per year are a
consequence of this. The fact it's from BBC and they quote _someone_ that's
apparently a professor (they don't even mention the profession, just some
"head of fashion design curse", whatever that means ...) will make many more
people believe such false claims and spread the myth and the implicated
problems it brings even further.

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Causality1
>Instead, she says, the "rule" is to "let the dirt dry and you brush it off".

A privilege reserved for people who live in areas that never need air
conditioning. On the handful of occasions I've been forced by necessity to
wear the same pair of jeans for multiple days the dried salt buildup is enough
to draw blood by abrading my thighs.

Then again I don't wear anything but 100% cotton so I'm not the audience she
has in mind either.

~~~
gowld
Why do you wear jeans in hot weather?

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Causality1
Briars. Insects. Safety regulations. And despite the many catcalls from
attractive women my fashion advisor says the boots and jorts look is just so
two-thousand-and-late.

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mapcars
The main problem described as modern clothing releases microfibers during
washing. Why not just move to natural fiber as humans did for centuries?

~~~
entee
People like stretchy fabrics which can’t be made durable without synthetic
fibers. Also cotton sucks to work out in, synthetics let sweat evaporate much
more effectively.

~~~
mapcars
Well, people like to smoke, drink and eat junk food. We have to to see beyond
our liking at some point. To have a set of synthetics for a workout is not the
same to have all synthetic clothing. And even on this, I would argue that
while handling sweat better still it affects your skin.

~~~
AstralStorm
The solution is to wear something tougher than polyester. Polyamides and nylon
are much more resilient and should not get damaged by washing.

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gpvos
Do these people not sweat?

~~~
angry_octet
I don't think the ultra rich really do break a sweat except when wearing their
lulu lemon exercise gear. I doubt their clothes get muddy or stained very
often. They probably have so many clothes that not wearing something for a
month is not a hardship. Most likely, their maid is covertly washing their
clothes.

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aitchnyu
I now have two Turms t-shirts worth equivalent of 10 USD with both hydrophobic
and antibacterial properties. They don't feel dirty even after sweating in
them a few days. I'm determined to test them for 20 or more wears. But I
wonder if they are counterproductive for the environment with the coatings.

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trumpeta
Can we not just install better filters in our water treatment facilities?

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liberte82
Oh good, I finally have a justification for my behavior.

