
Dissecting the Bloodthirsty Bliss of Death Metal - chablent
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dissecting-the-bloodthirsty-bliss-of-death-metal/
======
lukev
As an avid death metal fan, I think that overall this article isn't wrong, but
there's much more to be learned from the subjective experience of violent
music. Which is to say: just ask a fan, and they'll tell you.

Using "negative" emotions to evoke a positive response is way, way older than
metal. It's a technique as old as humanity itself, and is present the oldest
stories we have (e.g, Homer, Gilgamesh and Beowulf.)

Storytelling and emotions are not straightforward things and the emotional
response we get is not linearly tied to the subject matter.

To suggest that a metalhead must be negative and violent because they listen
to Cannibal Corpse is tantamount to saying that someone must be suicidal
because they enjoy a good performance of Hamlet.

~~~
lostgame
>> To suggest that a metalhead must be negative and violent because they
listen to Cannibal Corpse is tantamount to saying that someone must be
suicidal because they enjoy a good performance of Hamlet.

You, sir, win the thread here. This comparison is both necessary and logical.

------
nickjj
I had to stop reading at:

> “It’s the paradox of enjoying a negative emotion that I was interested in,”
> says Thompson, a professor at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia.
> “Why are people interested in music that seems to induce a negative emotion,
> when in everyday life we tend to avoid situations that will induce a
> negative emotion?”

I've been listening to various forms of metal (heavy metal, (technical /
melodic) death metal, metalcore, deathcore, etc.) for over 20 years, and I
never once (not even once) even thought to think about associating negative
emotions to the music. In fact, it's the exact opposite reaction.

I listen to it because it makes me feel positive. I listen to it for the same
reasons that other people listen to music types they enjoy, which I think can
be left unsaid because anyone who enjoys music knows exactly that feeling.

~~~
GiuseppaAcciaio
It's still worth a read, and as well a summary article/comment written by the
author
([https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324102543_On_the_en...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324102543_On_the_enjoyment_of_violence_and_aggression_in_music)
, pdf available).

The study is not without its limitations (self-reporting is the major one),
however it's an interesting topic: the author's main hypotheses are:

a) there's something with the way death metal/violent music fans' brain is
wired that makes it react positively, whereas with non-fans it makes them
react negatively.

b) people who enjoy Death Metal do it by distancing themselves from the actual
lyrical content ("it's just a song") and use it as a pressure relief valve of
sorts

c) people who enjoy Death Metal enjoy the feeling of being in an elite club
that's set apart from the faceless conformist masses.

It's bloody hard to set up experimental protocols to find reliable data to
support or go against the hypothesis, but I'm going to keep an eye on this
Thomson guy, and of course I'll keep on enjoying my violent music :)

~~~
scns
For Death Metal with intelligent lyrics you won't have to distance yourself
from i recommend Chuck Schuldiners band "Death":

Individual Thought Patterns:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjLIwidBubg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjLIwidBubg)

Human:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzvtfbqJeIY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzvtfbqJeIY)

Symbolic:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbp60IX_jFQ&list=PL2l9mciyQ-...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbp60IX_jFQ&list=PL2l9mciyQ-
YfSpXPJ4mvkpE5GCvqU9yPB)

~~~
zhengyi13
By way of a similar recommendation, there's Atheist's work, particularly
"Elements". It's an early 90s Florida-scene death metal theme album lyrically
about, well, the elements and Nature... which breaks into samba on the third
track:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHkxUqqnQ4&list=PLArAJlC1y5...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHHkxUqqnQ4&list=PLArAJlC1y5594YEtkHKzXfH6QlC9GQ5jR)

------
overthemoon
John Darnielle, on why he listens to metal: "I mean, it’s music that I enjoy.
I enjoy the playing, I enjoy the compositional approaches to musical
expression. It’s weird, nobody ever asks. ‘What does listening to this type of
music do for you?’ about any other kind of music, but with metal there seems
to be this ‘justify your connection to it’ vibe out there. It’s a unique mode
of musical expression that challenges the listener and transports me to
different realms. I’d say the same of the rap I listen to, or the classical
music, or the ambient music—but I guess I find a lot of different headspace to
explore in metal, a lot of different moods to enjoy and ways to enjoy them."

[https://daily.bandcamp.com/2017/06/19/big-ups-the-
mountain-g...](https://daily.bandcamp.com/2017/06/19/big-ups-the-mountain-
goats-john-darnielle/)

~~~
jzymbaluk
Andrew WK on why he listens to death metal:

> This was something I'd heard in other music, but only in small spurts—the
> screeching wail of James Brown, the frantic drum solo before a song's big
> finale. Usually, with other bands or artists, they would build up to a
> moment of intensity, like the crest of a wave, and it would hit hard, but be
> short-lived, fleeting. But it became clear to me as I listened to these
> death metal CDs, that this entire genre was based on extending that
> explosive feeling for an entire song, an entire album, an entire career—not
> just a quick crescendo or a peak that served to counter the bulk of more
> subdued music. In death metal, that high mark was starting point. It used
> the furthest extreme of other rock music genres as its base line, its
> foundation, and pushed forward from there. It's specifically designed to
> exceed excess. I was spinning in ecstasy.

[https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/gvvb34/andrew-wk-on-
death...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/gvvb34/andrew-wk-on-death-metal)

~~~
ionised
That sounds very spot-on to me.

------
mynegation
Anecdata ahead. There are different sub genres even within such niche genre as
death metal. I love melodic death methal bands such as Dark Tranquility (those
in the know would recognize it just by looking at my username), In Flames, and
Insomnium. Their lyrics in general are not about extreme forms of aggression
as article suggests, but revolves mostly around feelings of loneliness,
apathy, acceptance and imminence of death, despair etc. First and foremost I
listen to it because it is a very good music by talented musicians, just in
their choice of genre. There is definitely an element of appeal in it in its
“death” aspect though and I thought about it a lot over the years. Contrary to
its general tone and lyric content melodic death metal does make me feel
relaxed or energized, but generally brings positive emotions. I came to the
conclusion that it is about unearthing all the fears and negative emotions
that this music brings up in lyrics, acknowledging them and making peace with
them instead of suppressing them.

~~~
auiya
Winter's Gate by Insomnium is probably one of the best albums I've heard in
three decades. In any genre.

~~~
benrjackson
Winter's Gate is brilliant. I've found previous Insomnium albums to be a bit
pedestrian (albeit very competent vanilla melodeath). With Winter's Gate
Insomnium introduced some prog & black elements without abandoning their core
melodeath sound.

IMO there were two other outstanding albums released the same year that
accomplished a similar feat - Be'lakor's 'Vessals' end Wilderun's 'Sleep at
the edge of the earth'. Wilderun tend to get pigeon holed as a folk metal band
but I don't think that accurately reflects their sound. I would recommend both
albums to anybody that enjoyed Winter's gate

------
auiya
As a fan, I feel like they focus too much on the lyrical content and
intelligibility when the genre clearly downplays both of these aspects moreso
than any other genre. Death metal vocals aren't intended to add any sort of
intellectual meaning or melody. They're meant to add an additional percussive
effect, to add punctuation to various song measures and refrains. And in the
case of those with truly monstrous voices, to add a powerful meta-human
element. Some of the best tracks out there aren't even in English for
instance, and yet English audiences eat them right up.

~~~
ravenstine
A lot of death metal is straight up satirical. I don't think any of the
members of Cannibal Corpse are advocating for the things described in their
lyrics. It's just meant to be extreme sounding to the point of absurdity,
which some people really enjoy. For the most part, fans like the music and the
aesthetic.

------
beat
It's not about the violence. It's about what is considered socially
acceptable. I mean, violent lyrics, seriously? Have they ever listened to
blues, or folk music?

 _My staff has murdered giants, my bag a long knife carries / For to cut mince
pies from children's thighs, with which to feed the fairies._

\- Mad Tom of Bedlam (traditional folk song)

And of course, there are movies, and even tv, which often have imagery more
violent than any metal song (and visual, not lyrical).

So what's going on here? Why is metal "violent", and the rest of this stuff is
"normal"? My answer is mutual contempt. The stylistic cues of metal - both the
music and the clothing - is to say "I reject social norms". Society of norms
responds in kind, saying metal is worse than, say, the latest Avengers movie
or the plot of a Shakespeare tragedy - that metal is "violent", and this other
stuff is "normal".

------
rademacher
As a fan of technical death metal and a guitarist it is one of the few genres
that has the depth and complexity to keep me interested. This is also why I
enjoy music from Sibelius and other classical greats. In contrast, most pop
music is so stock that I can guess the next notes in a sequence and it just
becomes dull to listen to.

Also, as someone often described as stoic, metal has a enough energy to
actually get me excited and feeling. When I listen to it, I get more of a
response than say listening to DMB. I wonder if this is related to being an
introvert, a lot of metal heads seem like they like to listen to music alone
and get energized from solitude, where as a pop music fan may enjoy listening
with friends.

~~~
fhood
> a lot of metal heads seem like they like to listen to music alone and get
> energized from solitude, where as a pop music fan may enjoy listening with
> friends

I'm not sure that this is true. Back in highschool, most of my close friends
also happened to be into metal, so we listened to it together a lot. These
days, fellow metal heads are so few and far between, that it is hard to find
fellow enthusiasts and metal is so polarizing, that unless they are into it,
they probably don't want to hear it.

------
iamben
A lot of the people I know that listen to death or black metal are very
scientific - physicists, mathematicians, etc. I've always figured people are
attracted to the music for two reasons -

Firstly because they tend to be social outliers. As kids, smart and a little
awkward. Much like the music. It's not for everyone and it gives you a sense
identity and a group to belong to.

Secondly because it's challenging to listen to. Like, but somewhat moreso than
most genres, you have to spend time figuring the music out. As my mother would
say "every song sounds the same" \- except it doesn't. There's super
complicated time signatures and riffs and everything else. And even if it's
not (as) musically complicated, it's just not easy compared to pop tunes on
the radio. It's another challenge to work out and make it accessible. And when
you do, it's like understanding a world that most others don't (perhaps like
coding, or maths, or science).

Anecdotally, metal crowds seem to be far more lovely and polite than most. The
Cannibal Corpse show I went to a few years back was remarkably so compared to
a lot of the punkrock or hiphop shows I attend...

~~~
aplc0r
I've never though of your second point, but I've found myself doing exactly
that. There is some metal that takes multiple listens for me to appreciate,
and requires concentration. Trying to do anything while listening to tech
death for example, would annoy me. However, if I just sit down and listen to
it, over time I appreciate it more and more.

~~~
iamben
Indeed. And much like coding (I suppose the most personal example I can use),
you have to concentrate (hard!) those first few times - maybe even be in the
mood to begin to understand it, and then it becomes kind of second nature. You
know what's coming. That time change at 56 seconds makes you grin - everything
flows.

------
lostgame
I really like something that Marshall Mathers (Eminem) said at one point,
something along the lines of people's inability to distinguish the fiction in
his lyrics from the fiction of, for example, horror movies.

He'd actually said something neat, that he feels there must be something more
sacred about music for people to freak out to that extent. There's something
ineffably interesting about that.

------
jzymbaluk
Every think piece on the subject of death metal waxes about the violent
lyrics, but I really challenge you to decypher the lyrics in the song selected
to open the article[1] without reading them in advance. If you can interpret
the lyrics in this song, you're better at this than I am, and I've been
listening to this type of music for over a decade.

Also, as of right now, this article sits at 41 points and 43 comments. Classic
metalheads ratio'ing discussions.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhN6lT-y5U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhN6lT-y5U)

------
devonkim
For me it’s all about the dissonance and I almost never listen to lyrics in
any form of music and find it an annoyance. If there was a death or black
metal musical, I wouldn’t like it probably, for example. The voice to me is
another instrument that is no better or worse than other instruments but
unique in that voices are obviously much more varied than an instrument is.

But I think it’s worth getting a survey of some sort from folks into metal
seriously. We’ve already shown that metal fans are among the most dedicated
listeners of a genre, for example, according to Spotify’s stats. The Metal
Maniacs BB more than a decade ago did an informal survey among the members and
found that at least in that crew most metal fans are pretty darn introverted,
which is a finding that most people not into the music and cliques would be
surprised by. That board may be up on the Wayback machine but maybe it’s be of
some value to researchers.

The self-report aspects of a study are handy enough for the purpose of
identifying further research if you have no clue what to investigate next at
least.

~~~
3131s
I personally never liked the vocals despite an almost twenty year infatuation
with extreme death metal. But I am very captivated by the music of bands like
Infester, Wormed, Autopsy, Pustulated, Flourishing, Pyrrhon, Stargazer,
Defeated Sanity, Miasma, Timeghoul, Pyaemia, Wicked Innocence, Malignancy,
Disembowelment, Sintury, Human Remains, Orchidectomy, Gorguts, etc.

A few bands nowadays do release instrumental versions of their albums, this is
one of my favorites:

[https://nuclearwarnowproductions.bandcamp.com/album/a-mergin...](https://nuclearwarnowproductions.bandcamp.com/album/a-merging-
to-the-boundless-void-of-voyce)

~~~
devonkim
Ah, you’re definitely on the prog / technical death side of the spectrum then,
which is what the article completely ignores unfortunately. All those bands
are among the more technically proficient that the genre has to offer. I can
only get into them to the extent I can get into someone playing a bunch of
etudes and suites as a demonstration of raw ability. Granted, there’s some
pieces that are real tough to stay together in classical (every other
Stravinsky piece comes to mind) but metal will always be like jazz in that
it’s all about a representative of each instrument or part rather than the raw
power of many as a tour de force.

I just tune out the vocals and unless you have some really awful vocals or
something seriously crazy like from the likes of Regurgitate it doesn’t really
register in my memory. This isn’t to say that doing extreme vocals doesn’t
take any form of talent but trained singers in opera have been putting their
vocal cords to the limits in other ways that are impressive, just more
conventionally recognized.

------
throwaway8879
>is that long-term, persistent exposure to violent media may lead to subtle
changes in one’s personality, desensitizing fans to violence and reinforcing
negative social attitudes.

I'm not sure I agree. I can listen to all the "violent music" I want, but
can't stomach through a contemporary or even classic horror film. I was really
weirded out and had to stop halfway through while watching a documentary on
the Austrian guy who kept his daughter in his basement for many years.

Also, not to be a cliched metalhead, but I'm disappointed by the lack of good
death metal in this article.

~~~
AllegedAlec
> >is that long-term, persistent exposure to violent media may lead to subtle
> changes in one’s personality, desensitizing fans to violence and reinforcing
> negative social attitudes.

It's the same old stupid argument that has been becoming popular again about
games recently, and frankly, it's such a huge load of bullshit.

~~~
rangibaby
playing games where your only goal is to kill (oops, eliminate) people from
the other team for hundreds of hours must have some kind of effect on you,
even if it is fun. I loved games like San Andreas but couldn’t really get into
GTA:V because it felt too real to me.

~~~
0xfeba
> playing games where your only goal is to kill (oops, eliminate) people from
> the other team for hundreds of hours must have some kind of effect on you.

People really tie "kills" in games to murder in real life way too casually.
When I play a game it's about strategy, team work, and winning.

A lot like Football (Soccer). It has little to do with the terms or animations
used in the game -- those are just for entertainment.

I don't play a game because of how violent it is, I play it if my friends have
it and/or it has good/fun game mechanics.

~~~
onemoresoop
Just an honest question: would you play the same game if the bullets were made
of chocolate and all the gore was replaced by something else? Assuming that it
would have the same engine: strategy, teamwork. etc.. I wonder if whats the
attractive to gamers is how real the gore is or whether it's the engagement
the game generates and the gore is just meaningless decoration.

~~~
lukebitts
Consider a game like Splatoon where you shoot ink, would that be close enough
to your chocolate example? If so, it is a very successful game

------
larrik
I see a lot of good points here I otherwise would have made but:

1) "Death metal" is surprisingly regional. This article is very American-
centric, as European death metal generally isn't not inspired by violence in
the same way.

2) Almost all "good" art in human history is about sadness and death,
especially poetry (which are probably the closest analog to modern lyrics).

3) Many of these bands tend to be intentionally over-the-top and not serious
about their themes. They are usually very much going to for a classic B-movie
goofiness vibe. (Cannibal Corpse, from the article, is definitely in this
group)

~~~
SideburnsOfDoom
> 2) Almost all "good" art in human history is about sadness and death

As they say, Great Art is concerned with the noble themes of Love and Death,
whereas pulp fiction is nothing but sex and violence.

------
jly
This article focuses excessively on 'violent lyrics', which are only a feature
of some small sub-genres in the greater landscape of modern extreme metal.
While no one is going to confuse the lyrical content of most metal as being
upbeat or positive, there is enormous diversity of musical styling and lyrical
subjects across the genre, just like any other. Most lyrics and most extreme
metal bands don't focus on subjects like the article discusses (CC in
particular). Death Metal (and it's sub-genres) is today more associated with
musical and vocal style rather than violent lyrical imagery.

------
brobdingnagians
I realize I'm being counter cultural here in saying this, but these are my
musings: I wonder if our society is making a mistake. Little things carve
channels in our minds over time that we aren't always aware of. In good times
and easy times it may be easy to ignore the violence, glorification of sex and
money and "live the good times", but in our times of trouble and stress, will
our thoughts turn to those things we fed our minds on a constant diet? During
social upheaval, would we have the discipline to sacrifice and love when the
first thing that comes to mind are violent lyrics?

The same thing probably goes for pop music; if the first thing that comes to
mind when we speak of love or relationships are the lyrics from a Justin
Bieber or Beyonce, or the thousands of songs about failed relationships,
selfishness, and angst-- we might be missing out on some depth, feeling, and
principles from earlier eras, like "Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young
Charms".
[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believe_Me%2C_if_All_Those_End...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Believe_Me%2C_if_All_Those_Endearing_Young_Charms)]

In previous societies, music was written for other purposes like Handel
saying, "My Lord, I should be sorry if I only entertained them; I wished to
make them better." If every little influence in our life, including music,
helped us to educate our emotions, feelings, and thoughts, perhaps our society
would feel more cohesive, less isolated, more kind, and less bellicose.
Moore's song was written as consolation and a declaration of faithfulness to
his wife-- and it was wildly popular-- what have we lost in the centuries?

------
VLM
Self therapy?

From an external point of view, something like CBT or desensitization therapy
for maybe claustrophobia or fear of guns looks very disturbing, but I'd like
to hear an opinion on the participants.

I'm not terrified of heights but I'm very nervous of them. After I get up
there and the adrenaline dump is over and I'm just doing my task, I get quite
a spectacular high at having overcome my fear. So its not paradoxical to me
given experience, that I could both be scared of heights yet get addicted to
parachute jumping.

In a like way I could see people who are not terribly enthused about having to
live in an area of urban hand of high rates of hand to hand combat and rape
might find getting thru a metal song about the topic, extremely motivating and
enjoyable.

Corporate mainstream stuff is highly formulaic and self similar and its no
surprise it won't speak to all people, making it surprising if something like
metal or a zillion other counter cultural things (alt-right, horror movies,
etc) didn't exist.

------
stochastic_monk
I think that Halloween is the perfect time of the year to try to convey the
aesthetic. Do you like scary movies? Thrillers? Surreal comedy? Elements and
concepts from all of these feature heavily.

Essentially, I celebrate Halloween all year round, and it's just a blast.

As a classically trained musician, I've tended to lean toward more aggressive
and technical metal. The other people I know who have gravitated toward death,
black, and/or power metal are by overwhelming majority trained musicians.

In a deeper way, there's also the role of catharsis, of someone else sharing
your pain. Sometimes when one is in distress and hurting, it's so helpful to
have someone else expressing something you can't quite convey in words.

~~~
devonkim
I’m also classically trained but played some jazz and while it’s anecdata I’ve
seen far more classically trained musicians in the metal scene than jazz
players. While hip hop is basically pop today, I haven’t found any jazz
musicians in, say, the extreme rap music scenes. But you’ll find them more in
experimental music in general for sure (there’s rather little experimentation
in extreme metal with folks like Deathspell Omega maybe being an exception).
Unsure if it’s more a correlation of socioeconomic factors than musical /
artistic ones.

Metal is closer to a recreational drug for me than escapism / nesting with all
the aesthetics of other senses like a holiday or vacation. That droning wall
of sound is pretty awesome wherever it comes from. Bolt Thrower, Tsjuder,
Demoncy, Emperor, etc. do it for me in ways that melodic metal of any sub
genre doesn’t. Similar for why Gost (not the much more popular Ghost) works
for me much more than Daft Punk despite many musical similarities.

~~~
stochastic_monk
You might enjoy the experimental hip hop group Death Grips, the drummer of
which has collaborated with the Dillinger Escape Plan (who is about as
experimental as you can find in hardcore).

------
tinmandespot
A lot of what is said in the article is true. However the condescension and
limited viewpoint are jarring.

Extreme metal is much more than ‘plain old’ death metal bands like CC. There
is black, thrash, grindcore, doom, post-metal, industrial and hybrids therof.
Just like with any other music (think Leonard Cohen vs U2), there is vast
difference in subtlety and sophistication of lyrics in metal. And just because
the lyrics are a certain way it doesn’t mean the folks who wrote them aren’t
smart - it is hard to ponder the meaning of life while headbanging to the
blast beat of a Cannibal Corpse song!

~~~
pavel_lishin
Most music genres are kind of fractal - I usually tell non-fans that there is
as much variation within metal as there is in music in general.

------
ereyes01
Death metal and fast aggressive music is an avenue of release for me. I listen
to it when working out, and when trying to get in focus when coding under
pressure. It's easily one of the most fun things I do all day.

I don't watch music videos or dwell on the lyrics (or understand them most of
the time), so I don't really see much of the gory side, and also most of the
bands I like do not have much of a gory persona anyways. It's all just fast,
high energy, quite complex and stimulating music to me to get my heart rate
up, and I love it!

Now, back to Amon Amarth... :-)

------
baxtr
A friend of mine once said: _“There is a reason why Death Metal is very
popular in the Nordics and Reggae in the Carribean”_

I thought that was insightful.

PS: I really like Death Metal, Unleashed in particular

~~~
tomcooks
She has never been to Sweden nor Mexico has she /s

------
thedancollins
I would think the positive feelings are mostly what I've heard called
"Opponent Process Theory". I mean, if you subject yourself to the violence,
lyrics, melody, rhythms, of death metal it is like an assault. There is
usually nothing soothing about it. Your body has to defend itself. It would be
analogous to marathoners and the high they experience when running long
distances. #throwupthehornsfordio

------
sevensor
In an open-source crossover, I once heard Jono Bacon (sometime commenter on
HN, former Canonical community guy), explain that there are two genres of
music in his collection. Death Metal, and Brutal Death Metal. I believe he's
been in a band of his own as well.

------
onemoresoop
Never got into the metal scene myself but never seen it as more than an
indulgence in some form of silliness, some kind of fooling around with
something that is not real but something that gets together kids who would
otherwise feel lonely

------
mariusmg
Melodic death metal FTW :))

------
midhir
Maybe they'd be better off looking at black metal, especially early Norwegian
stuff when members of Mayhem were killing themselves/each other.

Or maybe My Dying Bride, Mourning Beloveth etc.

The rest of it is a blast.

------
exabrial
Not all lyrics are like the ones mentioned in the article... I just like
style. Makes good "wallpaper" music when you're doing something else.

------
neonate
[http://archive.is/34G8Z](http://archive.is/34G8Z)

