
Apple in talks with luxury carmaker McLaren - ucha
https://www.ft.com/content/523422ba-7ffd-11e6-8e50-8ec15fb462f4
======
russnewcomer
Apple has lots of cash in accounts outside the U.S. that it can't/won't
repatriate for tax reasons. They want to get into the car space. McLaren (from
this not-a-car-guy-perspective) seems to have a similar corporate cultural
ethos to Apple, plus they are English and therefore fewer language/cultural
issues integrating.

Basically, I'd suspect half the reason that Apple is going this route because
it's quicker and cheaper to use that overseas cash to acquire experience than
it is to try to build it internally.

~~~
chadgeidel
Along with the corporate cultural ethos (Ron Dennis is very similar to Steve
Jobs in his attention to detail and demands of his company), McLaren has a
strong engineering culture and "consults" for many other companies. I agree it
would be a good "culture fit".

~~~
krona
McLaren also consults and does R&D for the British Olympic cycling team, so
it's not just cars we're talking about. In fact, I'd imagine the world class
materials research and manufacturing that McLaren does is of massive interest
to Apple (carbon fiber all the things!)

~~~
sir-velo
Can you explain their contribution? In the Rio Olympics the british velodrome
team used Cervelo bikes like every other top team.

[https://www.cervelo.com](https://www.cervelo.com)

[https://www.cervelo.com/en-ca/races-and-athletes/british-
cyc...](https://www.cervelo.com/en-ca/races-and-athletes/british-cycling)

~~~
phonon
Sensors

[http://www.mclaren.com/appliedtechnologies/case-study/uk-
spo...](http://www.mclaren.com/appliedtechnologies/case-study/uk-sport)

"A good example is our collaboration with Team GB cyclists. Drawing on our
design expertise, we created sensor hardware to be fitted within bike frames.
A non-GPS positioning system was created (GPS being unreliable inside
velodromes) and bespoke data analysis software developed to monitor speed,
power, cadence and other valuable metrics."

------
runesoerensen
_McLaren said in a statement to The Verge that the company "is not in
discussion with Apple in respect of any potential investment"._

[http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/21/13000666/apple-mclaren-
acq...](http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/21/13000666/apple-mclaren-acquisition-
deal-autonomous-cars)

~~~
ceejayoz
The way corporate PR works, that could mean the discussions are over and it's
a done deal.

~~~
sigmar
It could also mean that the discussions are ongoing but McLaren doesn't want
to lose their bargaining power by admitting the possibility. Their PR is under
no obligation to be 100% honest and won't be if it is not in the company's
financial interest.

~~~
rtpg
is McLaren public? If so, having a false PR can be slightly illegal in some
jurisdictions

~~~
neilc
McLaren is privately held.

BTW, I'm curious which jurisdictions you're referring to.

------
dustinupdyke
Gordon Murray designs some pretty atypical vehicles, from the McLaren F1 to
the T.25 or T.27 microcars, to the recent shippable truck.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_F1)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.25](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.25)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Vehicle_Trust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Vehicle_Trust)

~~~
sangnoir
> Gordon Murray designs some pretty atypical vehicles

You don't say! One thing is for sure: he really, really, _really_ loves the
idea of a central driving position. All the cars you mentioned have the driver
sit smack bang in the middle.

~~~
freehunter
It's gotta be cheaper to make one car that can be driven on either side of the
road than make a car for the UK and then another one for the rest of the
world.

~~~
poooogles
Japan and Aus(/NZ?) are also in that minor group!

~~~
beardyw
Not mention India (population 1.3 billion). All in all one third of the world
drives on the left. I read somewhere that a lot of major manufacturers make
about 50% of each.

------
a_j_b
Wouldn't be surprised if it had more to do with their expertise with carbon
fibre than anything else. You're not going to find anyone with more expertise
with that material than F1 teams.

~~~
DannyBee
Maybe. Note that these kinds of composites are _exceedingly_ common these
days.

Like "I can buy it online from amazon.com" common for some and "random online
metals shop" for others.

Now certainly, not what Apple's gonna do, but more in the point of "there's a
very very large set of companies with large amounts of expertise in this". I
have pretty strong doubts you'd go to mclaren for it.

~~~
artimaeis
The same can be said for aluminum, but still Apple is known for doing some of
the best work in the world with the material.

~~~
rfrey
Apple's cases are nice, but "the best work in the world with [aluminum]" is a
real stretch. They're not complicated or high precision, they're computer
cases.

There are people making turbines with aluminum, and medical equipment, and
machine parts that are accurate to an order of magnitude more than Apple's
pretty phone case.

------
ttam
here's a TC link [https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/21/apple-is-in-talks-with-
mcl...](https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/21/apple-is-in-talks-with-mclaren-for-
a-potential-acquisition-report-says/)

btw, "The FT thinks this acquisition could cost between $1.3 billion and $2
billion"

anyone else thinking "wow, that's actually cheap"?

~~~
wastedhours
Yeah, I knew McLaren Automotive wasn't driving profit at the moment (and cars
are capital intensive), but to think such a brand with all of the resources
that they have is worth half a Beats does shock me a little bit.

Considering the amount of cash they have (and be interesting to see which
locale they'd take it from), would say it's almost a no-brainer to acquire a
foothold in the market with such prestige, awesome tech and talent. Plus,
their respective histories with regard to secrecy and alignment of brands
would make sense.

~~~
Crespyl
Is half a Beats just one Beat?

~~~
microtherion
One Upbeat.

------
aembleton
\- Add refcontrol[1] for Firefox, or some alternative for Chrome.

\- RefControl > Options > Add Site

\- Enter site as www.ft.com and Action as
[https://www.google.com](https://www.google.com)

You can also use this trick for wsj.com and probably a few other sites.

1\. [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
GB/firefox/addon/refcontrol/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
GB/firefox/addon/refcontrol/)

------
cwilkes
Maybe they want to make a laptop that opens like ^o^ and not like /o\

~~~
Disruptive_Dave
not enough jokes on HN, imo. :)

~~~
JBReefer
No, a serious tone is what keeps us from being Reddit

~~~
spatulon
As John Cleese pointed out (IIRC, as a followup to him making a brilliantly
funny and loving eulogy to Graham Chapman - "Good riddance to him, the
freeloading bastard, I hope he fries"), you can be serious without being
solemn.

See:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7487081](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7487081)

~~~
oldmanjay
You certainly can. Far more often what occurs on the internet is that people
are jokey and disruptive without bothering to be brilliantly funny, and we
don't need much of that here at all.

------
julianpye
If this is about a new line of baby strollers, I am really interested :)

(TIL they are two different companies, where I always thought it's a brilliant
marketing idea)

------
bedhead
Man I bet it would be fun to be in the M&A/strategy group at Apple.

------
uptown
"McLaren produced 1654 vehicles last year."

If they're looking to use them for production, it seems like they may be
following the early-days Tesla model for volume of vehicle production:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Production](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Production)

~~~
chadgeidel
No offense, but hand-building supercars is not at all like starting up a large
scale automotive firm. Yes, Tesla was hand building roadsters early on, but
the intent (and the market) was completely different.

------
jackgavigan
I always expected that Apple would make an automotive acquisition but I
assumed it would be Lotus Cars.

It'll be interesting to see whether the deal (assuming to goes through)
includes the F1 team.

------
zer0defex
Wow. Just wow. If this happens, the game has just changed.

Ron Dennis and Tim Cook. If you replaced Tim Cook's name with anyone else, I
wouldn't believe it could ever work. Tim Cook though has already shown how
awesome he can work with a manically focused leader driving vision and
strategy. All of the sliding of Apple's quality since Job's passing, ceased in
one brilliant strategic move.

Bravo Tim Cook, bravo. I'd be shocked if Elon Musk didn't pee himself just a
wee bit after hearing this news.

~~~
CameronBanga
Can you name one Apple product that has decreased in quality since Steve
passed? Apple's products today are of higher quality than they've ever been.

~~~
jonknee
Well the Mac has been pretty much abandoned:

[http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac](http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac)

~~~
ceejayoz
Your link shows new Macbooks were released less than six months ago and iMacs
less than a year ago.

The only things there more than two years old are the MBP non-Retina, which is
essentially an obsolete line, and the Mac pro, which Apple has never seemed
massively invested in.

~~~
zer0defex
You mentioned the first two on the list, why not the rest? Oh... right...
including those paints a very different picture:

Retina MacBook Pro: _491 days since last release_

Mac Pro: _1007 days since last release_

Macbook Pro: _1563 days since last release_

Mac Mini: _706 days since last release_

Macbook Air: _562 days since last release_

To be fair, the non-retina Macbook Pro and Macbook Air should be removed from
the list as their place in the product line is now occupied by the Retina
Macbook Pro and Macbook respectively.

That still leaves us with some pretty major product lines looking quite
neglected.

~~~
ceejayoz
> You mentioned the first two on the list, why not the rest?

Huh? I _mentioned_ the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro. All the others fall in my
"less than two years old" segment.

~~~
FireBeyond
Retina MacBook Pro... yes, under two years. But lets see, periods between last
updates, 247, 251, 280, 294. Average, 268. Current, 491. Nearly twice that.

Similar with the iMac - at 344, already beyond the average (which was only
pulled way out of whack by one 577 day refresh cycle, otherwise it would have
been in the 270 day range.

MacBook Air. Average of 350 days, now seven months more...

Mac Mini, similar.

There isn't any way that you can spin this in a way that says Apple isn't
neglecting the Mac.

------
daviddumenil
Presumably this has been leaked to draw out competitive bids.

------
dsl
Apple has approached McLaren Technology Group, the British supercar engineer
and Formula One team owner, about a potential acquisition, in the clearest
sign yet that the iPhone maker is seeking to transform the automotive
industry.

The California technology group, which has been working on a self-driving
electric vehicle for more than two years, is considering a full takeover of
McLaren or a strategic investment, according to three people briefed on the
negotiations who said talks started several months ago.

A tie-up with McLaren, whose expertise ranges from automotive engineering and
on-board computer systems to novel chassis materials such as carbon fibre and
aluminium, could accelerate Apple’s secretive automotive project.

Apple and McLaren declined to comment.

The lossmaking automotive group was likely to be valued at between £1bn and
£1.5bn, the people said, adding that it was not clear a deal would be done.

That would make it Apple’s biggest acquisition since the $3bn purchase of
Beats Electronics, the audio group founded by Dr Dre and Jimmy Iovine, in
2014.

Earlier this year, Apple invested $1bn in Didi Chuxing, the Chinese ride-
hailing company. That deal was Apple’s largest equity investment to date, as
chief executive Tim Cook gradually breaks with the Silicon Valley company’s
longstanding aversion to large deals.

McLaren produces luxury sports cars that can cost as much as $1m apiece and
owns an advanced technologies group, as well as the eponymous Formula One
racing team. The owners of McLaren Technology control 80 per cent of McLaren
Automotive. It produced 1,654 vehicles last year, generating revenues of
£450m, and has pledged to invest £1bn in the next six years on research and
development.

McLaren Technology reported revenues of £265m and pre-tax losses of £22.6m in
2014, its last published accounts. It is owned by Ron Dennis, its chairman,
Mansour Ojjeh, and Mumtalakat, Bahrain's sovereign wealth fund.

Apple’s interest in the Woking-based company centres on its technology,
engineering prowess and patent portfolio, according to people briefed on the
talks. However, those people cautioned that it was unclear if a deal would go
ahead following a recent shift in Apple’s car strategy.

Since 2014, Apple has built up a team of hundreds of engineers and designers
to work on the electric car venture, including recruits from companies such as
Tesla and Mercedes-Benz. Its original team leader, Steve Zadesky, left earlier
this year, and Apple veteran Bob Mansfield took over the project.

In recent weeks, dozens of employees have departed, people familiar with the
changes have said, as Mr Mansfield refocuses Apple’s efforts on the underlying
systems that would power a self-driving car rather than building an electrical
vehicle itself.

Despite recent reports of those changes, some Apple analysts have questioned
whether the company would depart from its traditional strategy of controlling
both the hardware and software in its products.

Some investors have hoped that Apple would make a move on Tesla, the Silicon
Valley electric carmaker led by Elon Musk. At its annual meeting last year,
Apple shareholders peppered chief executive Tim Cook with questions about
whether he planned to acquire Tesla, which he carefully sidestepped.

Mr Cook has never publicly acknowledged Apple’s automotive project, but many
of its top executives are car enthusiasts. Phil Schiller, Apple’s marketing
chief, is said to own a McLaren, and Eddy Cue, its services head, sits on the
board of Ferrari, while top designer Sir Jonathan Ive has expressed his
fondness for Bentleys and Aston Martins.

------
sargun
Hopefully this doesn't result in us getting McLaren Macbooks, a la Ferrari
laptops
([http://www.pcworld.com/article/186742/acer_ferrari_one_revie...](http://www.pcworld.com/article/186742/acer_ferrari_one_review.html)).

------
Cshelton
As a huge Formula 1 fan, this would be very exciting! Pending Apple would keep
McLaren in Formula 1. It would bring a huge amount of money to the sport along
with another team that can compete at the R&D level of Mercedes and Ferrari.

------
grandalf
Does anyone have a sense of how much legacy automotive technology is valuable
in bringing a new electric vehicle to market?

The chassis on a Tesla looks like an aluminum box... quite unlike a typical
car chassis.

~~~
linksnapzz
Aluminum monocoque construction has been done for production performance cars
by various makes for better than twenty years now. Audi, Honda, Ferrari etc.

I wonder where people get this idea that 100+ years of automotive engineering
know-how is somehow invalidated by powering the car w/ a battery. "Legacy"
indeed.

~~~
grandalf
Well, I'd think that in terms of the overall complexity of the device, there
would be a complexity ratio of roughly:

100:10:1 for gasoline engine: suspension: everything else.

~~~
linksnapzz
Complexity as defined as the number of discrete components, sure. Complexity
as measured as engineering man-hours, I'm not so sure.

The time that body engineers spend on FEA, CFD, tooling & welding design,
paint & trim, finishing...even without a new engine and transmission, there's
reasons why a new vehicle is a ten-figure outlay.

------
Gravityloss
McLaren has the istream concept, which is about making cars out of cheap but
very light and stiff flat composite plates.

------
youdontknowtho
McLaren makes beautiful machines.

------
Overtonwindow
This has to be a total rumor. There's absolutely zero reason for Apple to buy
the whole car company. I could see them buying a smaller manufacturer, but
McLaren? Really? I just don't see it.

~~~
freehunter
There are smaller manufacturers than McLaren?

------
Animats
McLauren is one of the companies that builds good prototype cars for others.
If Apple wants to fool around in the car space, McLauren can build them some
demos.

------
shmerl
Oh, should we expect aggressive patent trolling to spill into car making now?
While Tesla are opening up their patents, guess what Apple will do.

------
mikekij
First order of business: replace the fuel filling hole with a proprietary
interface.

------
joshu
Carbon fiber MacBooks?

iOS based IRIS?

------
CodeSheikh
Paywalled.

Updated: click "WEB" under the article.

~~~
uptown
click "WEB" under the article.

~~~
cypherpunks01
Nice! When did this feature come out?

~~~
dan1234
Over a year ago.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10223645](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10223645)

