
Self-driving cars learn to read the body language of people on the street - furcyd
https://spectrum.ieee.org/transportation/self-driving/selfdriving-cars-learn-to-read-the-body-language-of-people-on-the-street
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thdrdt
Meanwhile a Tesla on autopilot crashes into a stationary police car on the
highway.

As much as I like the tech I still think we are years away from self driving
cars.

Edit: as other pointed out it looks like this recent accident was with a 4
year old autopilot version (software, 8 year old hardware). So it is not
completely fair to use it as example. But the reason I used it is because
detecting stationary objects should be the basics of any self driving vehicle.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Yeah, I recall Waymo bragging they could do this years ago... a few months
before a Google engineer reported to a Slate reporter that a Google Self-
Driving Car would happily run any red light that wasn't in its map in
advance...

The long tail of edge cases in self-driving is vast, and each one needs to be
individually addressed.

~~~
vmception
> The long tail of edge cases in self-driving is vast, and each one needs to
> be individually addressed.

But when a single car encounters an issue, all cars get updated at once.

Just keep solving those captchas people, they _really_ need to know what a
crosswalk looks like.

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perl4ever
My searches produce an inordinate number of captchas, thus proving that Google
_can 't_ identify humans, even in the very limited environment of Google
searches. Which doesn't bode well for the cars.

It appears that reasonably rapid use of inurl: makes it think you're a bot.

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vmception
Captcha's aren't to identify humans, they are to train AI. It is easy for me
to understand the tolerance level, I know which images it understands and
which images it likely doesn't. I can easily finish captchas without selecting
_all_ images of crosswalks.

Anyway, your point seems to have the purpose mixed up. Pointing out images of
crosswalks trains the same system that some cars use or will use.

~~~
perl4ever
>Captcha's aren't to identify humans

I mean, that is their primary purpose, and there's a message that says so.

Unless you are saying "they aren't to identify humans, they're to exclude
bots" in which case I'm not sure what that means.

~~~
vmception
their implementation is such that it is more to train AI, the reason I think
this way is that you can predict how much of a Captcha that you can get wrong,
because you know which parts it doesn't know the answer to.

It is presented as "select the right answers, we know the right answers just
like your teacher did in school, if you don't select the right answers you are
a robot"

but in reality is is "select the right answers, so that we learn the right
answers, the right answers are an average of what other people selected as
well as completely new information that we aren't sure about"

~~~
drewbug01
The purpose of a captcha, and the purpose of the implementation of a captcha
don’t need to be the same thing. Said differently, a given thing can fulfill
multiple roles and that isn’t an inherent contradiction nor is it wrong.

In this case: yes, the stated purpose of a captcha is to identify humans - ie,
legitimate users. The unstated purpose of ReCaptcha (at least) is to train AI.
But it does both simultaneously.

The funniest thing to me is that we’re all in on it. :)

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mlang23
This reminds me to be afraid as a blind pedestrian in this modern world of
automated danger. I still remember it took me a while as a kid to begin and
trust that drivers would actually see me. I think I will never trust that
self-driving cars will react properly to me being blind.

~~~
perl4ever
I thought that electric cars had to have a noisemaker of some sort. I
encountered a Tesla yesterday, and while I could hear it, like its tires and
the brakes releasing, it didn't seem to have any artificial sound as it drove
away.

~~~
mlang23
The artifical sound, which isnt mandatory yet where I life, doesn't help to
minimize danger IMO. A car is way faster then I would be able to react.

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millstone
You who avoid self driving cars because they can't read human hand signals in
those weird construction zones: now you are out of excuses!

There is an obvious theory-practice gap. Theory is rocketing into outer space
while engineers are still running "please_no_crash_backup3.exe" in production.

If you build a self driving car that simply identified construction zones and
alerted the driver within 5 seconds, your product would be utterly world-
changing.

~~~
Twisell
Maybe a good comparison could be nuclear fusion power plant. Correct me if I'm
wrong but theoretical breakthrough took place in like the 1970's, with
operational labs sized tokamak.

Yet the first test breakeven reactor ITER is 'scheduled' to operate in 2025
(if nothing goes havoc until then).

Yeah I known that software operate on different concept these day (move fast
and break things) but I'm still unconvinced this could be compatible with any
marketing strategy for self driving cars.

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INTPenis
I'm sure in theory they can learn to do all sorts of things but I still
wouldn't trust them over a sober human driver.

This self-driving technology is a perfect example of something that is hyped
and needs to slow down and be rigorously tested before deployed IRL.

~~~
cgriswald
I don’t know how it can possibly be done. I can’t do it myself. My ten minute
drive through my Bay Area town looks like a comedy police chase complete with
two guys carrying a big frame of glass, every day.

Pedestrians will run up to an intersection and keep running across without a
care even if they’ve just emerged from behind a corner and the intersection
isn’t controlled. Others will act like they’re going to cross the road then
pivot 90 degrees at the last second. Some almost cross the road and then start
walking at an angle to the road rather than completing the cross. You’ll stop
for some and wait and they’ll just stand their staring at their phones, only
to step in front of you when you guess they’re just catching an Uber.

Some people wave to mean you should go. Some wave you away like they’re
shooing a fly, meaning they’re going no matter what you do.

Some approach the crosswalk and then step out into the street ten feet in
front of it.

I’ve seen construction workers who think it’s cute to dance out their
instructions. I had one who leapt across the road and then waved me through...
a gap of about half my car’s width. I’ve seen both ends of constructions
workers wave cars into single lane pass throughs; both human drivers realized
and waited for them to figure it out.

None of this is the really crazy stuff I see fairly regularly. It’s just the
every day stuff. And it’s all combined with crazy non-standard signage,
careless construction equipment drivers, and bicyclists who are a whole other
ball of wax.

~~~
INTPenis
Speaking of waving. That's one of my pet peeves in traffic. We're taught here
in Sweden to NEVER EVER wave anyone ahead in traffic.

Always obey the traffic laws and regulations about who has right of way and
who has to yield. While still staying alert and prepared to react of course.

So imagine a two lane road where one driver waves a biker ahead to cross while
in the 2nd line a self-driving android is coming.

~~~
cgriswald
I witnessed an accident where someone stopped short in the left turn lane
(which was waiting for the red to change) to wave someone coming the opposite
way through to a gas station on the other side. The wave he meant was “I’ll
wait here for you.” The wave she saw was “All clear go ahead and turn.” She
turned, right in front of someone in the through lane and got hit.

She then tried to blame the car that hit her saying the driver was speeding. I
got involved as a witness and I know she ended up having to pay that driver’s
damages. I’m not sure if she tried to go after the waving driver but that
would have been the smarter move.

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Animats
Now they need to record movement from other cultures, not just their own
engineering team.

Japanese road repair site.[1]

[1] [https://youtu.be/F0ixyhaWgWM](https://youtu.be/F0ixyhaWgWM)

