
Apple's Push to Flood India with Used iPhones Ignites Backlash - mastazi
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-03/apple-s-push-to-flood-india-with-used-iphones-ignites-backlash
======
npunt
I understand India's desire to push for local manufacturing, and some of this
is all just a bunch of theater dancing around that issue. Meanwhile, the
Bloomberg article does a good job of letting us read between the lines about
the vested interests in keeping Apple out --

> “The millions of imported used phones will need their batteries replaced.
> What will happen to those batteries, where will they go?” asked Sunil
> Vachani, chairman of Dixon Technologies, whose phone assemblies roll out a
> million phones a month for brands like Japan’s Panasonic and China’s Gionee.

So what do they do with used batteries from other phones? This has nothing to
do with whether a phone is imported or not.

~~~
makomk
If a new phone is sold in India, its Indian owner benefits from the entire
multi-year lifespan of the battery before it has to be disposed of. If a used
phone is imported from the US to India, its battery will be nearing the end of
its life - most of the benefit of that battery goes to the original American
owner, but the disposal costs are dumped on India. From this perspective, it's
a way for the developed world to dump our e-waste on the developing world and
avoid having to dispose of it ourselves.

~~~
glenndebacker
"If a used phone is imported from the US to India, its battery will be nearing
the end of its life - most of the benefit of that battery goes to the original
American owner, but the disposal costs are dumped on India."

If it is a refurbished model with a new battery that won't be the case. I have
had refurbished Apple stuff in the past and those things were
indistinguishable from new devices and yes that included the battery.

I've I read correctly that a company like Samsung is a member of one the
organisations that are complaining, I think there are other stakes at play
then the green card. Especially when a company like Apple is involved. There
is a lot to be critical about, but they tend to do their best in those
departments.

------
planetjones
There's something deeply contradictory in India's attitude. For imports
(including setting up supermarkets in India) there are levys, laws and
regulations to make it almost impossible for foreign companies. But then India
is able to export its IT professionals and outsourcing across the whole world.
Is this really a level playing field?

Why is no one calling this out as foul play? India seems to want one rule for
when it is abroad and another when it's at home.

~~~
simula67
Foreign policy is not decided based on consistency. Every democratic
government has a responsibility to defend it's own citizen's interests.

USA does this also, it wants free trade when it wants to export goods and
services to other nations but opposes it when it comes to importing labor (
H1B VISA cap etc ).

This is not evil, it is this competition between nations that improves
standard of living for people everywhere.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
Opposes the importation of labor? Inspite of importing more high-end labor
than almost any other country? How can they be opposed to it?

~~~
nkoren
> Inspite of importing more high-end labor than almost any other country?

On a per-capita basis, I don't believe this is anywhere nere correct.

~~~
seanmcdirmid
On a per capita basis, any rich country in the Middle East or city state in SE
Asia that imports all its workers wins by default. But out of the major
economies, the USA is at least up there with Europe per cap, and definitely in
raw numbers.

------
Razengan
> The group’s members [who opposed Apple's application] include the largest
> Indian phone brands: Micromax, Intex and _Samsung._

Ah.

~~~
vacri
Meh. Apple is asking to be treated like a special snowflake in this case,
caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones.

~~~
coldtea
> _caught by their own elitism of not-selling-affordable-phones._

Yeah, and look where that got them. From near bankruptcy in 1997 to being only
the most valuable (or in top 3 depending on when you look/how you measure) of
companies on the planet.

~~~
ocean3
But that strategy did not work for them in India. Hence they are trying to
sell cheaper refurbished models.

~~~
coldtea
Well, they have been doing very well in India too:

[http://www.ibtimes.com/once-tough-market-apple-inc-
indians-s...](http://www.ibtimes.com/once-tough-market-apple-inc-indians-show-
growing-taste-iphones-1796326)

[http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/slideshow/appleindia...](http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/slideshow/appleindiasuccess/7-reasons-
for-Apples-success-in-India/itslideshowviewall/19647039.cms)

In addition, they're trying to sell cheaper phones there.

~~~
ocean3
I don't think they have even 5% market share.
([http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/24/9790810/apple-iphone-
indi...](http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/24/9790810/apple-iphone-india-
smartphone-market-share)). For a global giant its very very poor. Hence the
need to sell cheaper mobiles.

~~~
coldtea
> _For a global giant its very very poor_

Not really, as that's not how they roll. They usually have small market share,
but of the highest end / largest margin part of the market.

Those 5% can yield like 30-50% of the profits of the whole smartphone industry
in India, and 80% of the high-end (more expensive) smartphone profits.

A company that only targets the high end of the market should be compared to
other products/companies in that, not the overall.

~~~
ocean3
come on dude don't keep on changing criteria. Anyway "Not really, as that's
not how they roll" this does not hold good. They are trying to get a bigger
market share in India. Hence they are trying to selling refurbished mobiles.
Which would be cheaper compared to brand new. Emphasis on it been "cheap".
They already do that selling gen old mobiles.

------
CharlesW
A strangely-biased article, starting with the headline. But setting aside the
concerns of the companies opposing this for obvious reasons, this is a really
great idea.

Consumers in poorer countries get the opportunity to buy used, high-end
devices supported by the manufacturer, and those devices get another consumer
cycle's worth of reuse before they get recycled. Plus Apple can now reach a
large new segment of customers without compromising product quality or new-
product margins.

~~~
ocean3
Or they can price it according to the market. How many people in US buy iPhone
at full price? Most mobiles are sold at full price in India.

~~~
1stranger
> How many people in US buy iPhone at full price?

Everybody. Anybody who doesn't is buying it on credit. They're still paying
the full price (and then some).

~~~
ocean3
Installment plans are recent trend isn't it. I see previously it was 2 year
contracts for 199 etc. emi are common in India as well. Apple could have done
the same in India.

~~~
bdcravens
Before Apple offered installments plans, US carriers were offering them. Do
Indian carriers do the same?

~~~
gryph0n
The sales model is pretty different.

In India, you'll typically buy your phone outright based on what features
you're looking for (Dual SIM, OS version, Storage, etc). Hence
manufacturers/retailers typically offer a EMI plan for top-end phones (think
Samsung S7, Apple iPhone 6, etc) since the outright cost is quite high.

Then you'll decide which carrier you want to use based on the tariffs they're
offering (Voice Calls, data, SMS, etc.)

Although carriers do offer phones with their plans, it's rarely ever bought in
that manner.

------
mukundmr
The backlash is just whiney competition. Many people in India see the iPhone
as a status symbol. If it is more affordable and comes with a warranty from
Apple, people will buy it even if it is refurbished.

------
brainless
I find some of the comments really surprising here. If you notice the headline
and the article, you will see, this is about "used" phones from a top tier
manufacturer. None of the other companies (Samsung, LG, Nokia...) are doing
it.

Please do not compare this to Apple not being present in India. It is, in a
large way, just not very affordable to masses, which Apple wants to change by
selling old, used phones.

Disclaimer: I am an Indian, with an iPhone 6 and its damn easy to find it
anywhere in the country.

------
arihant
I don't see how this helps Apple. They offered cheaper versions with 8GB ROMs
in India before. It backfired because though they were cheap it was a shitty
experience. With iOS 9 underperforming even on iPhone 5S, I don't see how this
more will do anything but tarnish Apple image further.

Indian customers do not want to spend less. They want to spend as much as they
can but expect longevity and quality. Historically Apple has provided that.

Apple's iPhone 5S is 20K in India. Fairly affordable for an iPhone. If they
are selling refurbished, they are trying to probably nibble at Moto G buyers.
Even if they succeed, they are not a segment that is expected to exceedingly
spend on App Stores or iCloud storage. That is the segment expecting things
like Bluetooth file transfer. That is the segment not paying 1500/month for a
decent plan which has enough LTE.

All of Apple's moves these days are operational. It almost seems like COO has
a complete run of the brand. Move the inventory. That's all that matters.

------
some1else
I think Apple would have to have a highly backwards compatible and modular iOS
for that to even make sense. I have an old iPhone 4 running iOS 6, and I don't
think it passes for a useable device. Apple could make the latest iOS
backwards compatible, and find ways to reduce computing requirements by
omitting functional or visual features, but that would completely counter the
current artificial obsolescence tactics. It's unfair to offload those to a
developing market, until they decide to support a greater fragmentation of the
platform.

~~~
sokoloff
I don't see how Apple adding another option is "unfair".

Adding an additional choice for consumers in a market rarely harms those
consumers. (An iPhone 4 isn't mass-produced cigarettes.)

Restricting choice for consumers in a market far more often harms them.

------
_ati
If apple is allowed to sell refurbished phones in India surely lot more people
will opt for those instead of the cheaper Chinese alternatives or Indian
versions and this could be the reason why the manufacturers here don't want
Apple in their price segment as it might affect them directly

------
arvinsim
It shouldn't come as a surprise. There are many reasons why the incumbents
don't want Apple entering the market.

------
draw_down
[http://thenextweb.com/opinion/2016/03/21/apple-
hypocritical-...](http://thenextweb.com/opinion/2016/03/21/apple-hypocritical-
insensitive-pc-users-old-pc/)

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

