
The Facts About Diamonds (and why I don’t like De Beers) - billpg
http://depletedcranium.com/the-facts-about-diamonds-and-why-i-dont-like-de-beers/
======
oldgregg
Moissanite is the way to go. I got married last fall and didn't even give her
the option of a diamond on principle. Nobody asks if it's real, they just
think you're loaded because you're fiance is wearing a $800 rock that they
think cost 20g. My friend who just got engaged had a completely custom setting
designed + moissanite -- more thoughtful and less expensive than crap from
your local jeweler and nobody can tell the difference. The hardest thing is
getting over the _massive_ psychological pressure that people will think
you're cheap. Know what I told myself? Man the fuck up and stop being
society's little bitch. Besides, two days after the wedding neither of you
will ever think about it again.

edit: un-diamonds are also a great litmus test. if your girlfriend learns the
real story of diamonds and still insists on having one you're probably in for
much bigger problems than just the ring.

~~~
elblanco
My wife wanted a diamond ever since we got hitched (we were far too poor at
the time to even consider it). So now, years later, I told her "let's get you
that ring you wanted". We went around for a year or so, to local loose diamond
sellers, and then she saw "Blood Diamond" and that put a stop to that.

$60 later she's happy as a peach with a CZ ring she enjoys wearing. And on
balance she says that she's even happier with it because she doesn't have to
worry about it at all. If she loses it, it's not like losing a used car.

~~~
PebblesRox
Reminds me of this comic: <http://cowbirdsinlove.com/34>

This one's a good one, too: <http://cowbirdsinlove.com/76>

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marilyn
I am a lady who had long disliked diamonds for these very reasons. They are
not nearly as valuable as what you pay due to hoarding and such. My partner is
aware that should the time come, I'd far prefer a natural pearl, than a
diamond. Unless of course he can find a piece of genuine moissanite, one that
actually came from space on a meteorite, that would be the coolest!

~~~
sanswork
I got my ex(unrelated I assure you) a sapphire because it had meaning in
relation to our birthdays and we both agreed not to buy diamonds.

She loved it and our families thought it was great but we both had to deal
with a lot of comments off strangers and friends about why I didn't buy a
diamond. She was great about it but you could see a bit of disappointment in
her whenever it was raised as she was just excited to have it and felt hurt
that she had to explain why it wasn't a diamond. When they would ask me I'd
list the reasons on the page and tell of why I picked the stone I did so it
would only bother me when I saw her bothered.

The point of this story? Even when its perfect for you and you couldn't be
happier there are large portions of society and people you honestly never
expect that will go about criticizing you for not following the norm and you
need to be prepared to have that conversation a LOT like every time someone
sees your ring a lot.

That said I still wouldn't change it for the world though and I know neither
would she and when your day comes I'm sure you won't either.

~~~
philk
People will always be criticized for not following the norm. It's awesome, and
an affirmation that you aren't part of the herd.

Plus I'd just say "We preferred sapphires" and change the topic.

~~~
yummyfajitas
A good response:

"Anyone who buys or accepts a mined diamond is implicitly supporting war and
slavery in Africa. I'm against slavery. What about you?"

(This does run the slight risk of alienating most of the women in the room,
including some who cried during "Blood Diamond".)

~~~
philk
The problem here is that you're paying attention to their bullshit question.
When you spend time justifying yourself it rewards the person for asking the
question (because they're getting attention) and makes it look like you need
to justify yourself.

(Although I suppose after enough impromptu five minute speeches about blood
diamonds people will learn to stop asking you about the ring :) )

------
ibsulon
Talking about DeBeers and truth in advertizing: "Diamonds - that'll shut her
up... for a minute!" --Ron White

The issue, really, is status. Our society places pressure on women to show
their status via clothing and jewelry. I'm glad to see substitutes like
synthetic diamonds and moissanite making it to the market, because of the
ethical concerns of supporting systems that promote such destruction. It is
important to note, however, that it is not the mere materialism of a woman
here that causes the drive for diamonds -- status is important, and let's not
fool ourselves if we think it isn't important to us. We have karma systems on
HN, we hold successful entrepreneurs to the limelight, and we reach for it
ourselves.

~~~
char
I agree that status can be important in many respects, but status _achieved_
from one's own accomplishments and intellect (as an entrepreneur, for example)
is completely different than status _created_ by owning an overpriced shiny
rock or expensive clothing. While there is certainly societal pressure on
women to display status through material means, they also have a choice as to
what kind of status they value and thus what type of people will value them.

~~~
benmathes
All true, but shiny stones are used by many as indirect evidence of status. If
you're of such a high status you can afford to deck yourself out in jewelry;
jewelry and other status symbols act as shortcuts and status messaging.

It's definitely true, however, than many people loose the forest (status) for
the trees (jewelry).

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IgorPartola
I'm going to take the opposite approach here. While the idea of a cartel
controlling diamond production and pricing is a very bad thing, I don't see
how it is so wrong to show your partner your affection with an expensive
present. Things to consider:

Most women now prefer other kinds of expensive gifts -
[http://tech2.in.com/india/news/entertainment-
internet/women-...](http://tech2.in.com/india/news/entertainment-
internet/women-now-choose-plasma-tv-over-diamonds/1119/0)

The whole "Diamonds are not forever" bit is true, and I think it would be very
cool to see some diamonds burning/vaporizing. On the other hand what is
homeowner's insurance for?

The bit about how diamonds are not perfect and are now produced artificially
does not bother me. You get what you pay for.

Lastly, the thing about how diamonds are just a big scam introduced by De
Beers in the 30s is not anything new. Does it bother me? Not any more than the
fact that I have to shave. Should I stop shaving just because somebody at some
point popularized shaving and is now selling me razor blades at $2/blade?
Would be a great conversation with my boss: Boss: "So Igor, you grew a huge
unruly beard. What's up?" Me: "Yes. I refuse to support Gillette's market
position. I'm off to see a client."

Most of our social norms are built around the fact that somebody at some point
had an interest in things being this way. Diamonds are just one small, almost
insignificant part of it.

~~~
andrewcooke
I don't think the issue here is whether or not it is a form of social
signalling - it clearly is. Nor is the question whether social signalling is
useful - again, it clearly is.

Rather, the point is, social signals are often (and certainly in this case)
based on symbolic value, which means that they may be open to "semantic
hacking" that transfers that value to a less damaging alternative.

That doesn't mean that the value of a diamond is unconnected with its physical
properties. It is likely that diamonds are "special" because they are rare,
hard, shiny, etc - all of which helped diamonds achieve their niche. But that
is an _historical_ explanation. The social signalling (that you want to
indicate to someone their value to you) could be done equally well by some
other "symbol" _if_ a common social understanding can be constructed.

So it's interesting because (1) hacking social systems is inherently
interesting and (2) the diamond industry is itself associated with various
negative side effects that sit uncomfortably alongside the notion of "love"...

------
nico
Another article about the same topic:

* <http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond>

A few related funny pics:

* [http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond2....](http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond2.jpg)

* [http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond3....](http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond3.jpg)

* [http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond4....](http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond4.jpg)

* [http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond5....](http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond5.jpg)

* [http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond6....](http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond6.jpg)

* [http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond7....](http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/bobbylishus/diamond7.jpg)

------
trevelyan
Whether we fall by ambition blood or lust / Like diamonds we are cut by our
own dust.

\-- John Webster, Duchess of Malfi

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jfarmer
There's a great 1982 essay from The Atlantic Monthly called "Have You Ever
Tried to Sell a Diamond?" that talks about the same issues.

<http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond>

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olegk
> Diamonds are the hardest known material

Diamonds are not the hardest known material.

1) Wurtzite boron nitride (w-BN)

2) Lonsdaleite

3) Aggregated carbon nanorods (ACNR)

are all harder.

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gamble
The real irony is that diamonds are all but worthless on the secondary market.
You'd probably get more for the gold it's set into.

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dminor
When I got engaged recently I went with a man-made diamond from Apollo Diamond
(featured in a Wired article several years back). Fortunately my fiancee was
of the same mind about De Beers.

~~~
pasbesoin
I agree with the idea. If you don't mind my asking, how did it compare, cost-
wise? I've seen comparisons of "one third less", but I've never actually
shopped the market.

(And no, I'm not a cheap b######. My support is based on the lack of
exploitation. But I wonder how pricing in the market for "natural" stones
affects pricing in the synthetic market, if at all.)

~~~
dminor
I didn't look into prices for natural diamonds, but the ring I bought was just
under $1800 including shipping for a three stone ring of .34 ca, .22 ca, .22
ca, all with very good clarity. They also resized it for free + shipping.

------
ern
Although I personally dislike the way people have been duped by De Beers, it
should be noted that diamonds have helped Botswana become a stable and
relatively prosperous country: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debswana>

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riffraff
the de beers de facto monopoly is a schoolbook example, e.g. why do they make
commercials if they are the only ones seeling something? Because they have to
prove that diamonds are actually better than other luxury goods (and also
interesting is the fact that their commercials sell diamonds, not de beers
diamonds)

~~~
sammyo
This is all fairly old news but do review details of the 1938 marketing
campaign, absolute genius (if evil ;-)

------
Silhouette
My goodness, what a sad discussion.

First of all, you _can_ source diamonds ethically. I made a point of doing so
when I had my fiancée's engagement ring made, working with a local jeweller
who have been implementing strong ethical policies since long before Hollywood
thought it mattered. They were happy to explain the precautions they took to
avoid, for example, using conflict or other abusively mined diamonds. I do
have written confirmation to support these claims.

Of course, you may have to pay more for a diamond that is guaranteed to come
from ethical sources. If you're worried, you could choose to go synthetic,
which I have nothing against if the product is identical. But if you find
diamonds attractive, there is no reason you can't get one at all because parts
of the industry operate unethically. And if you don't find diamonds
attractive, why are you reading this anyway? No-one is forcing you to buy one,
after all.

Secondly, can't I get my partner a present of some nice jewellery simply
because I think it makes an attractive decoration that she will enjoy wearing,
just as I might buy her a nice dress or she might buy me some smart clothes
for a big night out? Not everything is about showing off how much money you
have or trying to prove a certain status in society. In fact, my partner
doesn't know how much money I spent on most of the nicest jewellery I have
bought for her over the years. Sometimes it's just a matter of taking pride in
your appearance.

Finally, regarding whether it is worth spending the money on some nice
jewellery rather than, say, a foreign holiday: I proposed while on a (rare,
for us) holiday abroad, with a ring that I had spent several months designing
with the help of ther jewellers. Yes, that ring was quite expensive, and it
does have a couple of diamonds on it. But do you think that is what really
matters to my other half, or do you think she appreciates that it is a unique
gift, made with considerable personal effort, that will remind her forever of
both that holiday and how important she is to me?

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sree_nair
Just like to add that once I watched the movie "Blood Diamond", I am all the
more reluctant to buy Diamonds. Never know what you end up sponsoring.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Diamond>

~~~
theblackbox
It is interesting what can be thrown up by an emotive subject, even one that
is clearly ignored for the most part. I remember following the progress of a
campaign Survival International were doing around the time Blood Diamond was
coming out. They are a charity that provide support for indigenous peoples
that are classically, and tragically, under represented.

<http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/1872>

<http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/1915>

<http://www.boycottdebeers.com/>

I like the way that these campaigns work, and there is another one I've been
following more recently. It's been ignored for a long time, but it's looking
like some good press could come off the back of another Holywood Blockbuster:

<http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/5466>

That's a British company. They recently recieved some major flak when the CofE
pulled out as an investor citing human rights issues. But they have been
allowed to get away with a lot of underhanded dealings for a good while, and
it's just one I'd like to bring to people's attention.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/vedantaresources>

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daniel-cussen
He forgets to mention that diamonds are not forever in that, at ATP, they
expand back into graphite over a long time frame.

