
Sheryl Sandberg earns $100M, but won't pay interns - dolphenstein
http://www.news.com.au/money/money-matters/sheryl-sandberg-earns-100m-but-won8217t-pay-interns/story-e6frfmd9-1226697612115
======
hawkharris
During my first internship at a newspaper, an editor asked me, "Would you walk
into a butcher shop and ask the butcher for free meat?"

"No, I don't think so," I replied, confused by his question.

"So who in their right mind would think it's okay to ask a writer for free
words?"

Although the paper had a small budget, he gave me a modest stipend for each
article. It wasn't about the money; it was about what the money represented:
respect for a person's time and energy.

I took his career advice to heart and never worked for a company that didn't
value its employees enough to pay them.

~~~
pdog
Interns aren't employees.

~~~
NegativeK
If an intern does _any_ usable work, they are, by federal law, required to be
paid.

True unpaid interns aren't employees, as they should be purely learning.
hawkharris said he was writing articles; that's not just learning.

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chasing
From the US Department of Labor, an unpaid internship is legal only if all of
these criteria are met (and I quote):

1\. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities
of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational
environment;

2\. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;

3\. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close
supervision of existing staff;

4\. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage
from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually
be impeded;

5\. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the
internship; and

6\. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to
wages for the time spent in the internship.

([http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm](http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm))

Labor laws in the United States were hard won, and we should not forget this.
Along with minimum wage laws, they benefit all of us who must work to maintain
our lives. So expecting someone to provide you free labor with no compensation
for their efforts is not only immoral, it's illegal. If you work, you deserve
to get paid. If you expect someone to work for you, you should be honored to
be able to pay them reasonably for their time and effort.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

~~~
wdr1
Interesting none of these would apply to Congressional interns who are also
unpaid, as well as those in the White House.

I wonder when the government will get around to investigating themselves?

~~~
chasing
I don't know for sure, but these rules may be different for non-profit and
governmental entities because those organizations are in a bit of a different
class.

~~~
rhc2104
Yes, and the internship referred to in the article above is for a non-profit.

------
endianswap
My problem isn't necessarily with unpaid interns, but how the industry treats
paid interns. Specifically how it seems like the current industry trend is to
hire younger engineers as "interns", even though they've graduated university,
in order to treat them as trial/probation employees. I'm not sure what can be
done about it, but it's frustrating seeing friends be excited that they got a
"real programming job" but are hourly, low-benefits, low-job-security that do
the same work as their salaried coworkers but happen to be junior enough to be
taken advantage of this way.

~~~
ChuckMcM
That does seem rather odd. So what if folks offered a salary but also made it
strictly probationary up front. Sort of "You are going to be evaluated after 6
months/a year on the job and if you don't meet our expectations you are out."
?

This was essentially what Google to engineers when I worked there. They worked
for generally just under a year, got reviewed, and then if they didn't measure
up to the "level" that they had hired in at, they let them go. They were
somewhat up front about it if you pressed them. But I didn't meet anyone there
who particularly appreciated it when others would hire them and not do the
whole 'check in a year' thing.

~~~
EvanKelly
Most states in the US have at-will employment [0]. They don't even need to
state a "probationary" period, they can simply fire anyone if they aren't
performing.

[0]:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-
will_employment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment)

------
bmmayer1
This is fluff. Unpaid internships are so mainstream there's really no reason
to call out Sheryl Sandberg personally for being associated with the practice
(as opposed to every big bank in America which have 100x more money and also
have unpaid interns). Furthermore, the amount of money the company/CEO has is
completely irrelevant to what constitutes a market wage for a position. Sheryl
Sandberg can afford to pay interns $100,000/year also, but the job isn't worth
that much so no one is outraged that she's not doing it.

~~~
stfu
Yes, but the only difference is that Sandberg portraits herself as an advocate
for work fairness and equality. Therefore I think it is fair game to call her
out personally.

~~~
samstave
I've noticed a pattern with people who are very public figures/very wealthy
calling themselves an advocate of fairness/equality/whatever....

~~~
nsxwolf
If I ever become a very wealthy public figure, I promise you I will not
advocate for any of that.

~~~
woah
Thank you.

------
oh
Give me a break. How many big corporations have unpaid internships? Yes, it
sucks that not everyone is in a position to accept unpaid internships. But
pointing fingers at Sheryl Sandberg because her company is doing the same as
an untold number of others is disingenuous.

~~~
roedog
But those other big companies with unpaid internships didn't publish a book
about how they believe in empowering individuals (albeit women individuals in
this case). Some finger pointing seems warranted in that her company's actions
do not match her words...

~~~
bmmayer1
Empowering women and unpaid internships are not mutually exclusive. In fact,
you could say that unpaid internships are extremely empowering, because it
gives the prospective employee on the job training that they wouldn't get if
they were unemployed.

~~~
roedog
Well, if Sandberg takes that position in her book then she shouldn't deserve
finger pointing I suppose. But since she talks about leveling the playing
field in the workforce and fixing the salary gender gap is part of that I'd
say she believes that cash money is a key source of empowerment.

------
rhc2104
To people that didn't read the article:

The internship is for Lean In, a non-profit she started, and not for Facebook.

Minimum wage laws apply far less to non-profits, since you can legally
volunteer at a non-profit.

------
nyar
Interns aren't employees and aren't allowed to do things that generate income.

~~~
delinka
But why would she seek an intern at all? Why not _hire_ someone?

~~~
aa0
Many companies do this, when they're about the bottom dollar. IE. her company
is caustic and grimy, the status quo (sorry to say.)

------
MysticFear
Why pay when you can get high quality labor for free?

~~~
eropple
Because you aren't a shitty person?

I mean, to me, it's that simple. You can abuse the desperation of people
needing work, or you can pay a good wage for the work that they do. I consider
it a moral good to employ at a sane wage _despite_ the ability to burn others
without fallout; for similar reasons, I don't shop at Wal-Mart but will shop
at Costco.

~~~
protomyth
Funny, I'll shop at the local Wal-Mart because they pay better than the local
grocery store and use much less scummy political tactics. We have some real
winners for local business people.

~~~
eropple
Yikes - that's pretty grim. I live in Massachusetts and we tend to have pretty
good local businesses, so I tend to prioritize those, but bulk buying is
pretty much the province of Costco (or Sam's, but that's part of Wal-Mart and
aren't really any better towards their workers anyway).

~~~
what_ever
I am not sure but I've heard Costco is much better at treating their employees
compared to Wal-Mart and other stores. The salaries are higher than the
minimum wage.

~~~
protomyth
The local Wal-Mart pay better than minimum wage. No Costco in the area.

------
pbreit
I might have a problem if it wasn't a high-profile non-profit. And the
headline's a bit mis-leading considering how little Sandberg has to do with
the hiring.

------
tbrooks
If an intern knew they wouldn't be getting paid before they started and no one
forced them to take the job, I don't see any reason to complain.

~~~
mparlane
It's actually unfair to those who have the required skills but can't afford to
work without pay.

~~~
roopeshv
and the flipside is it's unfair to those who want to earn skills even if it
means they don't get paid.

~~~
intopieces
Fairness is an issue for the have-nots, not the haves. It isn't unfair that a
person who can afford food doesn't receive food stamps, for example.

------
cafard
I object to unpaid internships chiefly because they tend to reinforce
privilege. The kid whose family is just getting by doesn't take unpaid
internships--he's out working for pay, maybe coding, maybe waiting tables. The
kid taking the unpaid internship is generally not getting a bad deal, for his
or her family is willing to cover any loss of wages for kid's chance to
shuffle papers of Sheryl Sandberg.

(Let me add that this is an objection on principle, not one of resentment; I
never heard of such arrangements when I was of an age to be an intern.)

------
peat
My career was kickstarted by a paid internship. It wasn't much, but it was
enough for someone fresh out of high school to get by the the summer -- and
build a career out of it.

[http://peat.org/2013/08/15/take-a-chance-on-an-
intern/](http://peat.org/2013/08/15/take-a-chance-on-an-intern/)

The "getting paid" part was key. I could really focus on the work I was trying
to do. Better for me, better for my employer -- better for everyone.

It doesn't have to be much. It just has to be something.

------
clarky07
This seems like BS to me. I can't imagine myself ever accepting an unpaid
internship (or any kind of unpaid work. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do
charity work, but I'm not accepting a job for nothing). If there are idiots
out there who like to work for free, let them.

Also, this is a non-profit, so "volunteering" is just fine. Granted the
posting sounds a lot more like a job than charity work, but hey, if they can
find people going for it then more power to them.

------
hkmurakami
people generally pay the sminimum they must. rarely is there an exception. I
respect those who are responsible for the exceptions, especially those who do
it with conviction.

------
Techskeptic
Lol. This is funny. To break into Wall Street, you almost have to have an
unpaid internship. If you do well, they offer you a job there. If you don't,
they don't. People just WANT to hate Sandberg. An internship is a chance to
learn; you aren't entitled to learn at a company. Paid interns are the
exception; they are odd. You're used too Google too quickly and clearly don't
understand how most industries operate. If you think apprenticing would be
more beneficial, call it that. Interning is an opportunity to learn, not to
pay rent.

~~~
moocowduckquack
That tells us less about what is normal practice by most businesses and more
about how screwed our financial system has become. If I am running an
organisation, I want the best people, not just the best people from the group
who's parents are wealthy enough to let them not need to work in the first
place.

------
krstck
Where does this end? Are companies going to start posting for interns to pay
_them_ for the privilege of an internship?

------
kevin
For a lot universities and colleges, if you're doing an internship for
academic credit, you cannot be paid.

------
booop
She should capitalize on the media attention by turning it into one of the
highest paid internships.

------
viennacoder
It doesn't even seem like Sheryl knew about this internship/volunteer
position.

------
mugenx86
If only having loads of money was coupled with an obligation to be fair...

~~~
ChrisLTD
This is why we should have more progressive taxation. The lower rungs of the
economic shouldn't have to depend on the largesse of the wealthy few.

