
VPNSecure moves company from Australia to Hong Kong due to anti-encryption regs - lysp
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/aqix0z/vpnsecure_moves_company_from_australia_to_hong/
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pandapower2
Hong Kong seems an odd choice. Or at least a short sighted choice. Right now
its an ok place to operate but given the slow erosion of Hong Kong's
independence will it still be in 1 year? 5 years?

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judge2020
The treaty that gives Hong Kong its independence (but still being called
China) is the Sino-British Joint Declaration [1], which grants independence
for 50 years, until 2047.

this was also a thing for Macau [2]

1: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-
British_Joint_Declaration](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-
British_Joint_Declaration)

2:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Quest...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Question_of_Macau)

~~~
saagarjha
Without much knowledge of the geopolitical landscape, how does this treaty
stop China from invading Hong Kong? Presumably they’d face some consequences
from the rest of the world, but would it be worth it?

~~~
j16sdiz
Nothing. In fact, the Foreign Ministry have delined it have any practical
meaning and "the document no longer binds China":

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-
chin...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-anniversary-china/china-
says-sino-british-joint-declaration-on-hong-kong-no-longer-has-meaning-
idUSKBN19L1J1)

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marak830
Aside from what everyone else has stated on these comments, unless they remove
all Australian staff it won't matter, they can still be compelled to do
whatever the aus govt wants.

~~~
vectorEQ
everyone has their price, so it's always possible something is going to
happen, but moving places atleast gives them chance that they don't get
lawsuit immediately, and gives more opportunity to resist. as a nation you
can't touch someone in another nation unless the host nation cooperates. not
sure how china vs australia relationships are, but i'm assuming these people
didn't move to that specific country just at random....

~~~
marak830
I'm a more casual developer just to put that out there, but I'm Australian.
Since this law came out, I have definitely lost a few contracts. Eg you can
see in their eyes when they hear my accent. Yes it's just from my point of
view, and I'm probably also shaking more birds out of the tree than really
exist, but it's my belief.

Irrespective of that view though , any Aussie programmer who lives abroad(such
as myself), have to consider what would be waiting if we visited family and
friends.

I can honestly say I'd make a stand, screw the consequences, but what about
everyone else? I'm a headstrong bastard(too much haha), but others have
families to consider (I do as well, but my wife supports me on this position).

I moved to Japan for my wife, that doesn't mean we planned to stay here
forever, while I do want to now, I know quite a few Aussies here that want to
return eventually.

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olliej
Uhhh “security legislation in Australia is scary, let’s move to ... chine?” (I
recognize HK is special, but let’s be real: China can make HK do whatever it
wants)

~~~
p1necone
China is malicious, Australia is incompetent. I assume malicious is easier to
deal with than incompetent?

~~~
isostatic
But there are many other options

~~~
olliej
Right? Leaving Aussie makes sense, choosing HK as your alternative is where it
becomes nonsense

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andrewstuart
It's really strange that Microsoft, Amazon and Apple and Google seem to be OK
with the Australian laws. I would have expected them to pull out too.

~~~
duality
Do they have data centers in Australia?

~~~
andrewstuart
Yes:

[https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/02/microsoft-
launches-2-new-a...](https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/02/microsoft-
launches-2-new-azure-regions-in-australia/)

[https://cloud.google.com/about/locations/sydney/](https://cloud.google.com/about/locations/sydney/)

[https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sns/latest/dg/sms_supported-
coun...](https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sns/latest/dg/sms_supported-
countries.html)

And the issue for Apple is more that the government can require Apple to
secretly install backdoors into the iPhone - that's my understanding although
maybe wrong?

~~~
jpatokal
There is indeed a Google Cloud Platform region in Sydney, but that's for GCP
customer data only, not consumer Gmail etc. There are no "main" Google DCs in
Australia:

[https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/](https://www.google.com/about/datacenters/inside/locations/)

I would presume the same applies to Microsoft and Amazon.

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lysp
Company moving from AU to HK.

AU company had to remove canary, but new HK company will have a canary.

Reading between the lines...

~~~
cyphar
Warrant canaries (statements about the existence or nonexistence of a notice)
for TARs, TANs, and TCNs are all illegal and are punishable with 5 years
imprisonment.

~~~
xfitm3
Under AU or HK law?

~~~
cyphar
Australian law, though it's not one law -- each new kind of secret warrant-
like capability has wording to the effect of "disclosure of the existence or
nonexistence of a [secret warrant] is an offense punishable by $x years
imprisonment." In this case I was referring to the Assistance and Access Act
2018 (the new anti-encryption law) which has such wording for notices under
the new legislation.

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rajadigopula
Tried them once. Their windows app by default only connects at 128 bit
encryption! Had a chat with their CS and they tried to convince 128 bit is
enough. Stopped after the trial.

~~~
diafygi
128 bit AES (assuming that's what you meant) can certainly be good enough.

[https://security.stackexchange.com/a/19762](https://security.stackexchange.com/a/19762)

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booblik
Does this law apply to Attlasian as well? Their stock price is not concerned.

