
There are now at least eight Chromium-based Android default browsers - mmastrac
http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2015/02/chrome_continue.html
======
jallmann
Curmudgeon time: reflow and zoom were probably my favorite features of the
original Motorola Droid browser. There were zoom ( +, - ) buttons in the
lower-right to zoom in and out -- accessible one handed, with your thumb, none
of that pinch-to-zoom nonsense. And the text reflowed on zoom!

Further iterations of Android slowly stripped out these features -- first the
buttons went, in favor of pinch-to-zoom, then reflow in favor of... a worse
user experience.

Most sites with a lot of horizontal text (hello, HN!) are hard to read in
portrait mode without constantly scrolling. Phones are faster than ever, I
don't see why computational requirements would be a good reason for disabling
reflow. Turn off all those damn animated-transparent-rounded transitions and
give me back my reflow.

As far as I can tell, none of the major mobile OSes (Android, iOS, Windows
Phone) ship with text reflow in the browser by default. Well, except HTC
Android, according to the article. And that is maddening.

~~~
BHSPitMonkey
On Android, in most places where you can zoom (browsers, Maps, etc.) you can
zoom one-handed with a double-tap (where the second tap is held down and
dragged up or down to zoom in or out before releasing). It's actually a pretty
smooth interaction once you know to do it.

~~~
Khao
I've used android for years and never knew you could do this. This is one of
the things I hate most about all those gestures : there's no way to know about
them unless you just try a bunch of random things, or you google for "android
browser gestures" or something like that. Give me buttons to do the same
things those gestures do! Hide them behing menu if you want, but give me
functionality that I can use right now without having to hunt for them on the
web.

~~~
cloudwalking
FWIW this also works in Google Maps for iOS. I wish it worked system wide.

~~~
accatyyc
This is kind of system wide on iOS. Almost all apps that support zoom supports
double tapping to zoom in. Safari zooms into the HTML element you double
tapped on and fits it nicely on the screen.

------
wwweston
I worked on the front-end of a mobile/tablet online shopping tool for a big 5
automaker for about a year and a half.

At the end of all of it, if anyone asks me what I recommend for mobile/tablet
web development (and they usually don't because everyone presumes the standard
is pixel-perfect app-like appearance/behavior), it's simple layouts that
accommodate the idea that your CSS is a _suggestion_ and lightly enhanced
interaction with not-constantly-running JS... unless the product absolutely
_requires_ some other mode of interaction.

There are a number of reasons for this, but one of them was exactly this
problem with Android. During the time I was working with it I don't think we
ever thoroughly cracked what signifiers would help us reliably _reproduce_
reported issues... let alone fix them (you can detect a whiff of my
desperation this time last year from this unanswered SO question:
[http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23142762/how-to-
identify-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23142762/how-to-identify-
factors-that-will-help-reproduce-web-rendering-bugs-for-android) ).

Not my problem anymore. Last I heard the new owners are planning to rewrite
with more responsive design and using angular. Should be fun.

~~~
wldcordeiro
It isn't just Android anymore. A project I worked on has been getting a lot of
reports of layout issues on iOS for alternate browsers like Chrome. We have no
issues with Safari but the alternates seem to throw some wrenches in the
system.

~~~
cloudwalking
Chrome on iOS does all rendering using the native iOS WebView. Rendering
should be quite consistent with Safari (although JavaScript may be slower).
Chrome differentiates by implementing their own network stack and browser
"chrome" (tabs, history, favs, etc).

~~~
coob
JS is no longer slower than Safari since 8.0, if you use a WKWebView

[http://9to5mac.com/2014/06/03/ios-8-webkit-changes-
finally-a...](http://9to5mac.com/2014/06/03/ios-8-webkit-changes-finally-
allow-all-apps-to-have-the-same-performance-as-safari/)

~~~
abraham
Which Chrome doesn't do.

[https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-the-new-Chrome-for-iOS-
use-...](https://www.quora.com/Why-doesnt-the-new-Chrome-for-iOS-use-
WKWebView)

------
newhouseb
Another important thing is Chrome's rapid release process works under the
assumption that most issues that crop up will be fixed quickly in a later
version, rather than be back-ported. Which is to say that there are no Ubuntu-
esque LTS versions of Chrome, so whatever random bugs happen to exist in the
version of Chrome that each vendor forks will likely be there for a long long
time, making this fiasco that much worse.

~~~
digi_owl
Seems like Google is trying to apply web development methodology to
software...

~~~
CydeWeys
What does this have to do with web development in particular? Regardless of
the kind of software involved, if YOU fork, it's YOUR responsibility to merge
upstream patches and fixes over time. If the various vendor-branded Chromia
aren't doing it, then it's entirely on them. Upstream Chromium is open source,
and the code for all of those fixes and patches is available in the open.

~~~
serge2k
Maintaining a fork as complex as Chromium is probably more work than these
companies are willing/able to do.

~~~
cloudwalking
Then they shouldn't fork it.

------
luos
I don't know but they removed the reflow from the browser used in Motorola E
2gen and for me who only uses it for reading on the tube this almost made it
unusable.

I can only read in horizontal mode or scrolling left and right on every row.

I set opera as the default browser because that supports it but apps like
Pocket are unusable for reading stuff like HN comments.

According to them it's a wontfix.

[http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=62378](http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=62378)

This makes me so angry, I wish I wouldn't have upgraded from a Huawei G510...
I feel I wasted my money on shit.

~~~
nilliams
If I understand correctly, you are asking the browser to provide a workaround
for a website that isn't optimised for mobile, and asking that browser to
maintain that workaround forever?

I'm surprised they ever tried to do this in the first place.

Reddit has now had a hell of a long time to deliver a mobile-optimised site,
responsive or otherwise. I feel like your criticisms would be better directed
towards them.

Edit: Btw I'm sure some people may comment that it's not just Reddit and there
are 1000's of sites that were more easily viewable on a text-wrapping Android
browser previously. That's undoubtedly true, but how will the web ever move on
from its fixed-width-desktop-sized past if we don't force the offending
websites to fix their broken fixed-width styles. We can't workaround that bad
idea forever.

~~~
coldtea
> _If I understand correctly, you are asking the browser to provide a
> workaround for a website that isn 't optimised for mobile, and asking that
> browser to maintain that workaround forever?_

Yeah, why not? Programs exists to help their users. I could not care less if
the website developers are sloppy or whatever, if the browser can give me
legible text, it should do it.

~~~
nilliams
Because, like the other downvoted-for-no-reason commenter posted that's great
for you in the short-term but bad for all of us in the long-term. Far better
if people fix their broken sites. It's analogous to why we as a web developer
community suffered overall by 'supporting' IE6 with crazy fallbacks instead of
just saying no.

~~~
coldtea
> _It 's analogous to why we as a web developer community suffered overall by
> 'supporting' IE6 with crazy fallbacks instead of just saying no._

The reason the "web developer community suffered overall by 'supporting' IE6"
is because people wont and dont update their "broken sites". That's a pipe
dream. Some are abandoned, others are maintained by amateurs who don't know
what they're doing, others don't care, etc.

Users still want to be able to read them, and will switch to a browser that
does, if yours doesn't. Unless you control all competitors and can co-ordinate
a mass update, you better support them.

~~~
nilliams
>> The reason the "web developer community suffered overall by 'supporting'
IE6" is because people wont and dont update their "broken sites". That's a
pipe dream.

I meant that we wasted a lot of effort _building_ IE6-proof sites in recent
years. My analogy itself had nothing to do with _updating_ sites. I was trying
to give an example of a 'crazy web workaround' that screwed us over in the
long-term.

But if we forget analogies and I address your actual claim that:

> [...] people wont and dont update their "broken sites".

We're talking about major sites here (like Reddit) where this is clearly not
true as most _have_ updated already. Reddit is something of an exception,
though they are clearly working on it as the commenter that linked to the beta
`m.reddit.com` has shown.

------
Mithaldu
> Android 4.3+ devices, including those by Samsung, HTC, LG, Sony, Huawei, and
> Xiaomi, have their own default browser on the homescreen

What exactly is he talking about? I have a Sony Xperia Z1 Compact and on the
home screen i have Google Chrome and Google Play Store claims i have the
official Google Chrome version installed and the only other browser i have on
there is firefox.

~~~
tdkl
What's your Android version ? They might have changed it and set Chrome as
default in Lollipop.

~~~
Mithaldu
I am indeed on Lollipop, however even before that, on, i believe 4.4.4, the
situation was the same.

~~~
tdkl
Google began pressuring more Google apps since Kitkat yes, but Z1 started with
JB and I presume that where the stock AOSP browser still was.

------
B-Con
> Oh, and remember that Chrome on iOS is not Chrome at all, but Apple WebView,
> which on iOS8 is supposed to be the same as Safari. That’s because you are
> not allowed to install other rendering engines on iOS.

What exactly does this mean: Does Apple review and reject apps that have a
rendering engine, or does iOS have some magic to prevent other rendering
engines from working?

~~~
chuckcode
I had no idea that Apple had this restriction on apps. Quick search pulls up
article to show that this is indeed the case [1]. This seems incredibly
restrictive especially particularly since Microsoft got into substantial
trouble just for bundling internet explorer back in the day [2]. Are there any
technical reasons for this restriction?

[1] [http://www.howtogeek.com/184283/why-third-party-browsers-
wil...](http://www.howtogeek.com/184283/why-third-party-browsers-will-always-
be-inferior-to-safari-on-iphone-and-ipad/) [2]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp).

~~~
dragonwriter
> Microsoft got into substantial trouble just for bundling internet explorer
> back in the day

No, they didn't.

They got in trouble for attempting to protect monopoly power in the desktop
personal computer operating system market and extent that power into other
markets _by_ , among other means, bundling IE.

------
DannyBee
In which we compare an open source project that people are compiling and
building versions of (Chromium), with a Google Product (Chrome), and pretend
that versions of the former are versions of the latter.

In other news, GCC continues to fall apart at a brisk pace, with literally
every distro shipping slightly different versions.

~~~
exelius
> In other news, GCC continues to fall apart at a brisk pace, with literally
> every distro shipping slightly different versions.

Heh, this is actually true. Clang/llvm are rapidly replacing GCC, largely due
to this issue (though performance plays a part as well).

~~~
Crito
Do Linux distros that have their own patches for GCC not have their own
patches for clang/LLVM? Why would this be the case?

~~~
plorkyeran
They haven't had time to accumulate patches that were useful five years ago
but now just make things pointlessly slightly different. Similarly, you can
generally assume that if someone has clang then it will be a relatively recent
version of clang, because of how fast clang moved from not being practically
usable to being very good.

In a few years I assume that all of the various annoyances around targeting
GCC on Linux will also apply to clang.

------
talmand
Why does this make a claim about Chrome when it's talking about Chromium
forks?

------
skrowl
First thing to do when getting a new Android phone (or flashing a new rom):
Install Firefox

------
habosa
This is up to some combination of the OEM and the carrier.

For instance I just bought a Verizon Samsung Galaxy S6 and it definitely came
with Chrome as the default browser and no other browser. However the TMobile
version comes with both Chrome and Samsung's S Browser, setting Samsung's as
the default.

I can't imagine why an OEM would take the effort to develop a browser when
Chrome is there...

~~~
sanxiyn
If you can't imagine why, for example, Samsung would want its own browser,
your imagination is severely lacking.

------
PhasmaFelis
Oh, this is for the mobile version. I was thinking desktop. I'm getting
awfully tired of reading "[Harmless niche feature X] is being removed from
Chrome to reduce menu clutter. If anyone still wants it, it should be possible
to recreate it with an extension."

~~~
titanomachy
What have they removed in this way? IMHO Reducing menu clutter should be done
by making an "advanced" settings tab, not by requiring extensions...

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Off the top of my head, View Selection Source in the right-click menu, and the
ability to set a default background color (so that you can navigate dark-
colored sites without them flashing blinding white each time a new page starts
to display, and so you can make out dark images when viewing them in a
separate tab). Neither one has ever gotten a really satisfactory extension,
although there is an awkward View Selection Source plugin that mostly works.
IIRC, the default background color was only accessible by jumping through
hoops to begin with; they just decided to remove it anyway because...nobody
used it? Except for the hundreds and hundreds of people who complained, but
they don't count? I read the justification in the bug report and I still don't
get it.

I've seen at least three others that I can't recall right now. It's really,
really annoying.

(There's also the thing where they are in the process of deprecating NPAPI,
which among other things means permanently killing support for browser games
written in Unity. That at least has some technical/security justification,
from what I've heard.)

~~~
magicalist
> _View Selection Source in the right-click menu_

AFAIK, Chrome has never had "View Selection Source" in the right-click menu.
Firefox does, maybe that's what you're thinking of?

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Maybe. There was something to do with source in the right-click menu that was
removed for no good reason, but it was years ago and I can't recall the
specifics.

(Someone has downvoted my parent post. Baffling. Defensive Chrome dev, maybe?)

------
silverlight
When Apple first said they would only allow a single web rendering engine on
iOS, at first I was heavily against the idea. But now as a web developer who
is absolutely not looking forward to the inevitable "people running around
with 10 version out of date Chromium browsers", I'm starting to think Apple
had the right idea. I can test a website on a single iOS device and know it
will work the same on all devices in that version of iOS even if they are
using "Chrome on iOS" or "Opera on iOS" or any other browser. I have no idea
how I'm supposed to test a site for 13 different Chromium forks. And as time
goes on, they will only grow more and more divergent from the main Chromium
branch, which means they won't have bug fixes or new features.

~~~
snupples
You should develop towards standards rather than a particular platform.

~~~
awj
If every browser vendor fully and correctly implemented a standard on their
first try, you'd have an excellent point.

As it is right now, even people that develop towards standards still have to
choose between deviating from those standards to support a wider audience or
sticking to the standards and turning away users.

~~~
snupples
In the most general sense, deviating from standards does not support a wider
audience.

------
thomasfoster96
If you're developing an app for Android that uses WebViews, your best bet is
probably to start using Intel's CrossWalk project. At the cost of quite a few
dozen megabytes in app size, you get the latest Chrome (well, the latest when
you published your app) plus a few of Intel's pet web projects (SIMD,
TypedObjects).

That said, as annoying as it is that Safari on iOS is slow to pick up new web
technologies, atleast I know that the vast majority of iOS users are using a
browser updated within the past year, and it's all the same browser engine
underneath.

------
Spoom
Welcome to my personal hell. Samsung used to be the worst but HTC may have
usurped that position.

\- Cordova-based Android app developer

~~~
grrowl
I left my last job after management sold a Cordova solution. We didn't have
the tech in-house to dev/test, but had already sold it anyway, leading to a
death spiral of developer hell as we needed to support Android 4.0.1, our
Android test phone was a $30 LG which barely displayed the home screen. iOS
worked great — or at least, predictably enough to repro + fix anything we
caught.

~~~
joshstrange
> our Android test phone was a $30 LG which barely displayed the home screen

Ugh I know this pain, I did some Titanium Appcelerator development for a while
and I had the newest iPhone a previous gen to test with but the Android phone
was worse than bargain bin. It really skewed my perception of Android and it
was hell working with such a shitty device. On top of management wating it to
work on super old phones (needs to work "everywhere" and my QA consisted of me
with a single phone and a laptop that could barely run the simulator (which
was really shitty back then, I've heard it's gotten better). I hated that
shit.

------
RyanMcGreal
> Although Google Chrome is installed on all Android 4.3+ devices

Is this correct? My phone (Galaxy S3) is running Android 4.4.2 and Play Store
tells me I don't have Chrome installed.

------
cateye
I would like to know what behavior is different with some real examples of
broken functionality.

------
serve_yay
Jesus, what a disaster.

------
eridal
so nice to see a quirksmode post in front-page again!!

 _ahh the nostalgia_

------
istvan__
I wish it was working at least on Yosemite properly.

------
ixtli
But Android is _open_ !

------
GnarfGnarf
I don't think Google is putting much resources in Chrome. I ran into a bug
where I had to multiply all coordinates in an SVG file by 100 in order for
Chrome to correctly detect the "hot spot" in an icon.

It used to be IE that needed the kludges.

------
LordKano
I like the idea of having Chrome out there but I am not going to use it.

I like having another serious competitor in the browser market to keep
everyone else on their toes.

I find Chrome to be unusable. I can't get past the lack of a menu bar. Maybe
that's picayunish but I find it so distracting that I can't use the browser at
all.

------
nathanb
The usual Google product lifecycle:

* Create new product to great fanfare

* New product sees wide adoption

* Many competitors to new product die off due to Google's monopolistic practices

* Google decide supporting the now-standard product is not lucrative enough and abandon it

* Massive ecosystem gap

I see Chrome on the desktop moving in this direction. It is massive and
bloated and has become the thing it was designed to overthrow. One process per
tab does not scale. Chromebooks are becoming less and less relevant. Surely
the mobile situation is indicative of reduced corporate support for the
project as a whole.

~~~
AlexandrB
> * Create new product to great fanfare

> * New product sees wide adoption

> * Many competitors to new product die off due to Google's monopolistic
> practices

> * Google decide supporting the now-standard product is not lucrative enough
> and abandon it

> * Massive ecosystem gap

In my lifetime this has gone from describing Microsoft to describing Google.
Amazing!

~~~
frikk
Meanwhile, Microsoft has gone on to open source core components of their
offerings (with no signs of slowing down) and Apple (not surprisingly) is
locking down developers even further with requiring signed drivers by default
(I _think_ \-- not confirmed). Amazing how things can shift.

~~~
exelius
To be fair, it's not hard to get a signing key for Apple (anyone with $99/yr
can get one). And it's not just drivers -- ALL apps must be signed by default.

