
Startup accused of scamming employees scrubs its online presence - smb06
https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/30/wrkriot-vanishes-after-scam-accusation/
======
danso
Maybe I'm naive but I was struck at how empty this company's mission and
vision was (nevermind its ethics, which were well-covered in the original
Medium post), and yet the founder and his friend/CTO put in so much of their
own money into it. Were they complete greedy fools, or is VC money that easy
to glom on to? WrkRiot didn't even have a "soon-to-be parodied by Silicon
Valley HBO", TEDdy nonsensical ring to it, e.g. "its like Airbnb, but for your
401K". It was just a straight up dull and stupid "Yeah, we're gonna beat
Linkedin" pitch, just as if someone were to throw $1M of their money behind
the claim "We'll take on Google by using advanced AI machine learning!"

According to their Crunchbase [0] (which could obviously be incomplete),
there's no institutional investors listed in their initial or seed round. I
mean it's one thing to waste other people's money on a dumb idea, but this
seems masochistic.

[0] [https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/1for-
one#/entity](https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/1for-one#/entity)

edit: Another befuddling thing besides the enormous headcount was the fact
that the original whistleblower was brought in from Dallas and offered equity
_and_ a $135K salary _and_ a signing bonus. That seems like a huge chunk of
money for a marketing executive at a small tech startup. Again, ignoring the
reality that he couldn't really afford her, what did the CEO imagine would be
investors' reaction to such a pricey hire?

~~~
dboreham
$135k for a competent person? I'm hiring!

~~~
godzillabrennus
Cash value is relative.

In the Bay Area $135k salary isn't even enough to rent a one bedroom apartment
at current rates.

If you make $135k in the rust belt you can live in a McMansion and own two
cars.

~~~
exolymph
> In the Bay Area $135k salary isn't even enough to rent a one bedroom
> apartment at current rates.

You mean "in San Francisco" — I live in the East Bay and split a one-bedroom
with my boyfriend for $1400 per month.

~~~
cdelsolar
Where in the east bay are you paying $1400 for a one bedroom??

~~~
ryguytilidie
I live in the Richmond Hills and my MORTGAGE is less than that.

~~~
abritinthebay
Yes but... Richmond.

~~~
ryguytilidie
Yeah, its so terrible here. I live in the hills overlooking the entire city of
SF. I have a view of the bay bridge, the golden gate bridge, angel island and
alcatraz from my backyard.

There is zero crime since I live in the hills. There are nice restaurants and
nice people.

So yeah, please continue thinking that this place is uninhabitable and stay in
SF. :)

Funny how people said the same thing about the Mission 10 years ago, or
Oakland 5 years ago.

~~~
abritinthebay
Richmond still has the highest violent crime rate in the Bay (and the highest
murder rate).

Plus is probably the worst possible commute location while still being in the
Bay.

Don't get me wrong - the hills are nice, but there are PLENTY of reasons why
your place is cheap.

------
cyberferret
As much as I dislike 'trial by the internet & social media', in this case
there seemed to be a long enough trail and corroborating evidence from others
that outing the CEO involved was a necessary public service to the community.

He seems to be a serial abuser of his team and stakeholders, and the forging
of payment receipts was just downright criminal. I hope there is enough
evidence now for criminal action to be brought against him, and he is
prevented from ever trying to run a company again in the foreseeable future.

------
ramblenode
I especially feel for the H-1Bs who were tricked into working for this
character. Because they require a sponsor to remain in the US, leaving the
company would also mean leaving the country and giving up a huge opportunity.
Working through an unfamiliar justice system in an attempt to recover their
wages is also very risky, especially if they realize the company is broke. I
hope some good will come to them but I suspect this will just be a "life
experience."

~~~
wrong_variable
Having being fired and then having to leave the country.

The worst part about the thing is how dehumanizing it feels.

"Here you have paid taxes for years ! please leave now, we just valued you for
your economical output"

It made me a stronger individual as a result, I know I am not owned anything.
But you still develop an emotional link to your environment after being there
for a while.

------
Hbthegreat
This happens to more startups than you can imagine. I have been severely
stolen from and defrauded of shares by a startup in North Carolina. They did
it to several employees and investors and remain impossible to gain contact
with even while appearing on podcasts with people like Randi Zuckerberg.
Getting walled out of a business even with lawyers looking over documentation
due to lies and deceit is a sickening feeling.

~~~
paulcole
LOL just name names instead of making us hunt around.

~~~
ryanlol
Lawsuits yo, don't want to go around accusing people of crimes unless you've
got lots of free time to spend in court defending said accusations.

~~~
Hbthegreat
Exactly this. Shouldn't be too hard to connect the dots if people really
wanted to but I won't specify the names in public.

------
20yrs_no_equity
I'm very fascinated by the phrase "disgruntled former employee". Obviously
she's disgruntled, that simply means one is unhappy. But the implication is
that because one is unhappy with their employment experience, one somehow
loses credibility.

Where is it, and why is it, that people who one minute will rant against evil
corporations on the other hand when reading about how an employee was
mistreated will blame the victim? (I'm speaking generally, but for instance
when Amazon's practices came to light there was a bit of victim blaming going
on here.)

Why is the presumption of innocence for the employer so strong?

This goes further into hiring practices-- if you look at it objectively,
hiring practices are very one sided. Employers make the demands take all of
the time for questions, will rebuff questions they don't want to answer (like
what's the cap table look like? how many shares outstanding on a fully diluted
basis? - things you need to know to evaluate the offer) while simultaneously
demanding to know your salary history- and recently I've seen reports of
employers demanding poof of salary history with the threat of termination if
you don't supply it.

Market forces can make one player have more power than the other, and in the
great depression employers had a lot more power. but it's fascinating how the
culture has enshrined that power, and people accept it.

If you complain about an employer, this is not taken as a sign the employer is
bad, it's taken as a sign you are bad.

But if you complain about bad service at a restaurant, we don't assume you're
a bad eater.

~~~
aconcerneduser
>Why is the presumption of innocence for the employer so strong?

Simple human group dynamics. In their "collective wisdom" a group of people,
in this case, a company, simply can't be wrong. The disgruntled employee
outlier is the one that's in the wrong. Human nature is to punish those who
"rock the boat", even if they rock said boat with good reason.

~~~
jdale27
Good point. It's the same dynamic as with burnout, where it's common to assume
that it's the burned-out employee that is sick/weak, rather than the company.

------
CM30
This seems to happen a lot with companies and individuals caught doing dodgy
stuff. Not sure why though, they do realise the internet doesn't just 'forget'
about things, right? That the Streisand Effect will mean this information will
be screenshotted and archived everywhere and that they won't be able to fool
anyone else like this?

Or that it pretty much 'confirms' their guilt for a lot of people?

But yeah, not surprising this has happened already.

------
chrisbolt
From yesterday:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12379518](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12379518)

~~~
minimaxir
Note that the current submission has more information about the aftermath as a
result of that article. (i.e this is not a dupe)

~~~
John23832
I think he's just trying to share the original Medium post as well.

------
jmspring
Honestly, one's record does eventually catch up with one. This is going to
last for this individual for awhile (if not forever)...

I've encountered people who reported title inflation on their LinkedIn page,
oversold what they did, and when starting their own venture, due diligence
pointed out severe faults the individual papered over.

Good or bad, things will catch up with you eventually.

~~~
paulcole
>Good or bad, things will catch up with you eventually.

Any truth to this besides superstition, perspective, and cognitive bias? To me
it's one of those things we tell ourselves to delude people into thinking the
world makes sense. Also a great thing for a terrible person who's succeeding
to say.

~~~
flippyhead
Really? You've never seen people permanently harmed by bad things written
about them online? We recently didn't move forward with a particular candidate
for this very reason. I guess people can change their name but, baring that,
the Internet lasts forever. And anyways, if you do the most basic of diligence
on someone you hire or do business with, name changes and the like are easy to
discover.

~~~
paulcole
>You've never seen people permanently harmed by bad things written about them
online?

What about all those people who get away with being assholes who we don't
realize are assholes because they're so successful? What about the good people
fucked over by bad luck who we never hear about?

Basically your comment just reinforces what I was saying. You're using the
situations you're aware of to explain the way the world works in a way that
makes you happy.

~~~
dfraser992
Amen. "Name and shame" only works to some extent (re: Jacon Appelbaum) but if
the person isn't that prominent, or the story doesn't get traction, then the
normal human tendency to try and put it all behind oneself is a factor (along
with not wanting to deal with "victim blaming") Then the story eventually
turns into just gossip and is left in the past...

Due diligence is a good idea, but for the first asshole I dealt with, there
were stories, but the person who introduced me to him didn't tell me because
of "ethical concerns". Even though he knew the stories were true and that this
guy was problematic. He is also very secretive, so any due diligence I might
have done probably wouldn't have turned up much (i.e. any lawsuits would have
been hard to uncover). I picked up clues though and didn't put together a full
picture of this guy's character till it was too late because I was too focused
on the work. My take on the whole thing was everyone in the past that had been
ripped off by this guy chalked it up to "life" and so nothing ever stuck to
him well enough. Typical shady businessman...

As for the second full blown psychopath I've dealt with... he had a
reputation, I thought it was all more gossip / sour grapes, and I didn't look
hard enough because I trusted the people who were giving him a pass (though my
intuition was complaining). Never again. We all got screwed over and I had to
spend £4k to defend myself against this idiot's bogus threats of lawsuits (my
fault for being manipulated...)

So if I ever do business with anyone else again, the only answer is A) trust
no one and B) be a psychopath for defensive purposes. Capitalism these days
practically demands that you think like a psychopath because the majority of
people you deal with are going to do the same. That goes for management as
well - employers are not your friends. They merely may be idiots, but you are
only a resource to be exploited by them.

The conclusion of all this stress over the past 7 years is that character
truly does matter, in all areas of life and to focus on that first off when
evaluating a person.

------
laurentdc
Is it just me or there's an actual increase in scams among startups lately?

e.g. yesterday's post:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12384071](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12384071)

~~~
SmellyGeekBoy
It's a sad fact of the world that, where there is money to be made, there will
be scams. I'm surprised it doesn't happen a lot more often tbh.

------
ryguytilidie
You realize you're arguing with a complete stranger and telling them that the
place they live is shitty right?

Is there a point where you have an ounce of self awareness and say "jeez, I'm
kind of a shit person."? Just curious.

~~~
abritinthebay
Richmond is _objectively_ a place with lower value housing. There's no arguing
with that. You may not like it, but it's true - and there are reasons for
that.

Your original comment was talking about how cheap it was to live there. You
getting offended by me pointing out _why_ it is cheap says more about you than
me.

If you're ashamed of why the place you life is cheap... maybe don't bring up
that it is cheap?

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coldcode
I doubt they can succeed given its on HN.

