
Magnesium and major depression (2011) - known
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507265/
======
DoreenMichele
_The onset of depression has greatly increased in incidence, and it is
affecting people much earlier in their lives during the late 20th century and
early 21st century than before the 20th century (Meyer and Quenzar, 2005). The
reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but inadequate dietary Mg is
prevalent in America and is the most likely cause. There is probably a real
increase in depression, coupled with a change in diagnostic habits, which has
to do with the element of stigma. Lower stigma leads to a higher rate of
diagnosis._

Somatopsychic medical effects are very real. I've gotten very good results
with addressing nutritional deficiencies as a first line of defense for issues
that often present as mood or mental health issues.

But I don't think you can reasonably conclude that magnesium deficiency is
_The_ explanation for increased prevalence of depression in a world that has
had so many profound changes.

Things are more crowded. Most people now live in cities instead of rural
environments. Among other things, this means people are subjected to much
noisier conditions.

We have far, far better information about the world than we used to. The 24/7
news cycle is incredibly stressful, if only because most "news" is _bad news_.

There are just so very many confounding factors, no, you can't reasonably
conclude that this one singular factor is the sole explanation or primary
explanation. That's ridiculous.

~~~
thorwasdfasdf
There have been a number of experiments where they gave patients more
magnesium, and in response most patients reduce their depression by a
statistically significant amount. The inverse was found when they gave them
calcium (more calcium increases depression). It's all about the ratio of
calcium to magnesium. We're a society that consistently gets way too much
calcium and way too little magnesium. That's because our food source isn't
diverse. Dairy is considered a food group here in the US, and almost
everything in it comes from Milk, is primarily made up of milk. Milk is very
unbalanced in terms of Calcium to magnesium, something like 10 to 1 ratio.

Also, there was another study where they found that treatments for depression
actually increased serum magnesium levels in the brain.

EDIT: Here is the study:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507265/#](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507265/#)
"A dietary supplement of 500mg calcium immediately and severely worsened MD,
which was extinguishable within one hour by orally treating with 400mg gel
capsules of Mg as magnesium glycinate "

~~~
DoreenMichele
I stated up front that somatopsychic effects are quite real. I don't doubt
that a magnesium deficiency is a culprit in depression for many people.

But are you arguing that, yea, verily, this article's foundational assumption
is true and correct: Magnesium deficiency is the sole or prime cause of all
(or virtually all) modern depression?

If so, I think you need to back that up with a whole lot more than a paragraph
or two about things you've read, like a long list of citations that not only
show the role magnesium plays, but also another long list of citations that
affirmatively excludes myriad other potential causes of Major Depression that
are generally understood to be contributing factors.

~~~
thorwasdfasdf
I don't think the article is saying it's the sole cause but they're saying
it's a factor.

And of course, not everyone who gets too little mag/too much calcium will
react in the same way.

~~~
DoreenMichele
From the article:

 _inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause._

It contains zero qualifiers suggesting it is one of many factors, a major
factor among many, etc. It uses the word "the" and the singular form of
"cause."

~~~
about_help
You skipped right over "most likely" and only focused on "the ... cause". To
me it sounds like they are saying statistically Mg deficiency is the most
widespread underlying factor. Their language is strong, but it does not come
off that absolutist and the "most likely" suggests other causes.

~~~
DoreenMichele
I'm a freelance writer by trade. I sometimes write health articles. I could
not say what this article says about cause.

At best, I could say something like "Given the proven widespread lack of
adequate dietary magnesium and the known side effects of magnesium
insufficiency, it seems plausible to suggest that at least some portion of the
increase in depression is due to widespread magnesium deficiency."

That may seem like quibbling to you, but scientists get paid to quibble about
the details and to be as precise as humanly possible. They should be meeting
at least as high a standard as my generally low paid freelance writing.

------
kevstev
I started taking magnesium supplements about 9 months ago, not for any
depression issues, but more for muscle issues. I had a weird leg muscle injury
a few years ago that I never really got a proper diagnosis for that happened
when doing some light hiking. In doing my own research on that, a condition
similar to my symptoms came up, and one of the causes was a magnesium
deficiency. I had a few other minor ailments come up, and I have been biking
to work for the last few years, and noticed that my recovery time is
significantly longer. All of these things cited magnesium as a significant
player, so I bought some supplements.

Anyway, I take about 200mg a day, for about the last 6 months or so, and I can
not say I have felt any noticeable improvement. This is obviously just a
single data point, but even with some specific symptoms that pointed to an Mg
deficiency, I didn't see an improvement. If you feel this is some type of
magic solution, you should temper your expectations.

~~~
tarsinge
Anecdotical but for years I had various anxiety and mild depression problems
(edit: and various muscle “twitches”). As it was not severe I was always
recommended Magnesium. Never had any improvement. Then 2 years ago I started
taking vitamin D (thanks to HN discussions) and nearly all my symptoms
disappeared (also changed job, started meditation, so the datapoint is not
clear but magnesium alone didn't do much).

Also I recommend you get tested for Magnesium as contrary to popular belief
(at least here in France) deficiency is not common (contrary to vitamin D).

~~~
Felger
Hello French "brother"

Serum levels of vit D and Magnesium are not reliable indicators. As stated in
the study for Magnesium. For Vit D, efficiency of a supplementation of Vit D3
is also not on par with real sun exposure, the skin and subcutaneous fat don't
seems to respond the same way.

I sadly did not had any improvement on my side from getting my Vit D level
from 15 (which is barely above the deficiency level) to a whooping level of 60
in a few month with Bio-D-Mulsion drops (Vit D3). My mag must be high as I eat
a very rich diet in this nutrient, without any dairy from more than a decade
now

~~~
tarsinge
> Serum levels of vit D and Magnesium are not reliable indicators. As stated
> in the study for Magnesium. For Vit D, efficiency of a supplementation of
> Vit D3 is also not on par with real sun exposure, the skin and subcutaneous
> fat don't seems to respond the same way.

Didn't know that, thanks.

> I sadly did not had any improvement on my side from getting my Vit D level
> from 15 (which is barely above the deficiency level) to a whooping level of
> 60 in a few month with Bio-D-Mulsion drops (Vit D3)

Given how well my state (physical and mental) noticeably improved these last
few months I'm think the main factors were psychological instead of a
deficiency (notably getting more financially secure with personal business
taking off and going abroad and working remotely). Before that I was already
working out and eating well for years, and even if that helped the changes
weren't as noticeable. Or maybe it was all of that combined and it just took
time to cross a threshold.

------
mboto
I have found that taking Magnesium is like turning a switch on in my head and
I'm suddenly happy again. I don't get upset or angry in the same way, I'm more
patient and my thoughts are not obsessive.

Magnesium is best taken with calcium and vitamin D as both are used in the
uptake of magnesium.

I have found that processed foods, alcohol, caffeine and sugar all make me
worse, but magnesium gives me the will power to change that lifestyle that
caused the problem in the first place.

I don't know about quack studies but for the cheap price and quick turnaround
(3 days for small effect, 2 week for a large scale shift) it's a simple thing
to try.

~~~
Bakary
Doesn't the article mention that calcium and vitamin D produce harmful
effects?

~~~
ImprovedSilence
I didn’t read the article, but I know you need to be careful with vit. D
supplements. If you take too much, the body can’t utilize it all, and stores
it in places that cause problems.

------
less_penguiny
FWIW Gwern has done some careful self-experiments on magnesium
supplementation, finding it wasn't all rosy:
[https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium](https://www.gwern.net/nootropics/Magnesium)

~~~
aik
Magnesium truly does wonders for my sleep but every single person I’ve
recommended it to has not had similar results. Like many things I’m sure
there’s a significant difference depending on your biochemistry.

~~~
DanBC
> Like many things I’m sure there’s a significant difference depending on your
> biochemistry.

...and placebo effect.

~~~
firethief
Practically speaking, it doesn't matter how much the effects are mediated by
the placebo response; whatever helps you sleep at night.

------
NPMaxwell
I love this: "The reasons for these findings are not quite clear, but
inadequate dietary Mg is prevalent in America and is the most likely cause."
Ah, to be publishing in a book, not a journal. And to know that your reviewers
are like-minded magnesium lovers. Imagine submitting an article to something
like Junior Forensics, the journal of high school debate. You could include
something like, "All the factors that lead to success in life are hard to
account for; participation in debate is the most influential."

------
tomhoward
> "Deficits of Mg may result from inadequate intake, malabsorption, or renal
> loss"

Unless I missed it, the paper didn't consider another possible cause of
magnesium deficiency: depression.

I.e., the paper seems to conflate correlation with causation (i.e., magnesium
deficiency may cause depression), and doesn't consider that the causality may
go in the other direction: that magnesium deficiency is a physiological
manifestation of depression and other types of chronic negative emotion.

My experience with this is that I've worked for a long time to address chronic
illness that has included conditions like depression, anxiety and chronic
fatigue syndrome.

One of the many things I've tried has been to substantially increase magnesium
intake, both via food sources and supplements.

My measured magnesium levels didn't change simply by increasing intake.

What has made a difference was directly addressing the emotional and outer-
life causes of my depression/anxiety.

Even then it took a while, and the work/improvement is still ongoing, but it's
very clear that my magnesium readings stayed low even when supplementing, and
only started rising after a solid stretch of deep emotional healing work and
significant improvements to life circumstances.

The still-nascent and controversial topic of epigenetics may be relevant here.

~~~
comboy
Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests? Less than 1% of magnesium
(AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can fluctuate a lot depending on your
body state.

Correlation is not causation but what HN readers should remember is that most
researchers are aware of that fact.

So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages, especially
given that results of treatment are mentioned in the abstract.

~~~
tomhoward
> Did you test your magnesium level by blood tests?

No, hair tests. Which I dread talking about in forums like this as it can be a
red cloth to motivated skeptics/cynics (of which I used to be one until I was
blessed with the opportunity to endure this experience), but the results have
been consistent with my experienced-symptoms over a long period of time (10
years so far), and the correlation with my emotional work and subjective
mood/life experience has been clear.

> Less than 1% of magnesium (AFAIR) is stored in blood and its level can
> fluctuate a lot depending on your body state

Yes, that's hair tests are used for this type of healing work.

> So yes, I'm pretty sure you've missed it among those 350 pages

I wish you would take more of a good-faith approach to the discussion and
point to where this is mentioned.

I read over the abstract as thoroughly as I could for evidence that they
properly considered this.

I can see mention of the observation that magnesium levels seemed to respond
to antidepressants, but it still seems to assume that the cause is
physiological, and that any mood-change is an effect not a cause/influence.

Nothing I can find in the abstract suggests that depression-causing-magnesium-
deficiency was considered, studied and disproven, yet such possibilities are
often raised in other circles, and it aligns with my own experience (and
available evidence).

Please understand that people like myself and a few others on HN, who have
been trying to share perspectives like these for many years, get rather tired
of reflexive dismissals, despite having done vast amounts research and
experimentation/data-collection.

~~~
comboy
I mean the fact that it works as a treatment. We don't have much more than
doing a blind test and checking improvement to test causality. There are so
many real world factors that elimination wouldn't work.

I see that you like Jung so I'm sure you're aware that there's more than
neurochemistry that can influence it, but when talking about drugs, incentives
seem to be aligned such that one should expect patented substances to have the
most papers showing positive results vs something cheap and readily available.

Plus I thought you were only basing this N=1 on blood tests so I didn't like
dismissal of paper based on that, thus the tone of my prev reply, I'm sorry
about that.

~~~
tomhoward
Right yeah, I see those mentions of past studies, which suggest some positive
results but don’t say much about long-term outcomes. (My own experience has
been that in early stages of feeling impaired, supplementation of Mg and other
nutrients would bring about short-term mood benefits but subside in the medium
to long-term (and show no measured changes in hair tests), even with
consistent ongoing supplementation, suggesting that the emotional/life issues
are an overriding factor long-term.

I don't doubt that a simple dietary deficiency of Mg may be a causal factor
for some, perhaps even most people. But studies like these often seem happy to
report positive outcomes after finding, say, 70% short-term efficacy, but
ignore the remainder, in which the causation may be very different.

> incentives seem to be aligned such that one should expect patented
> substances to have the most papers showing positive results vs something
> cheap and readily available.

Yes, which has been a source of frustration, but I understand modern
economics, so I get it.

> Plus I thought you were only basing this N=1 on blood tests so I didn't like
> dismissal of paper based on that, thus the tone of my prev reply, I'm sorry
> about that.

Cheers for that.

------
kmmlng
I once tried supplementing magnesium while in the midst of moderate
depression. Interestingly enough, the effect was not relief, but rather major,
absolutely crushing depression (i.e. cannot get out of bed all day
depression). I went back to moderate depression after stopping the
supplementation and a subsequent second attempt brought back the major
depression. By that point I gave up on the whole thing.

Anyone have a similar experience or maybe some insight that might explain
this?

~~~
ncmncm
There are many kinds of depression all shoveled into the one diagnosis. It's
as if malaria, flu, bacterial meningitis, and every other infection were
called "ague". (They were, once.)

The only way we know to tell one from another is by what med helps, if any. If
none do, it's "non-responsive depression" or some other catch-all. Depression,
like schizophrenia and a host of other DSM diagnoses are the DSM's equivalents
to "wastebasket taxa" in taxonomy.

People insisting that randomized controlled trials ("RCTs") prove that
depression meds, and other psychiatric meds, don't work demonstrate their
ignorance of the major failure mode of RCTs: unreliable diagnosis. Given that
last, the RCT tells you nothing, positive or negative, absent very careful,
detailed deconstruction of individual outcomes.

------
benjaminwootton
I'm quite skeptical on supplements, but I have to say that Magnesium helps me
sleep like a baby and feel much more relaxed generally.

~~~
n1000
I recently realised that Mg is a reliable way for me to stop teeth grinding in
my sleep.

~~~
bradhoffman
I am interested in hearing more. Did you try Mg with the intent of grinding
your teeth less?

~~~
n1000
First I had toothache. After a while it occurred to me that this coincided
with my stress level at work and that it actually was caused by my teeth
grinding at night. And then I remembered how Mg helps me to become much more
relaxed when under stress. Tried it and it worked.

~~~
bradhoffman
So what form of Mg are you taking?

------
sfjailbird
I take magnesium in the form of trace mineral drops. These are de-salted sea
water deposits. Besides magnesium they contain other rare trace minerals which
would otherwise be difficult to obtain, particularly lithium which has quite
strong evidence of mellowing mood.

The liquid form leads me to believe they absorb well but not sure if that's
actually true.

Edit to say I believe these drops have reduced my anxiety and improved
relaxation. If nothing else I sleep better due to the mg (no more Jimmy legs).

~~~
peteradio
Where do you find such things?

~~~
ehosca
[https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-
Concentrace-M...](https://www.amazon.com/Trace-Minerals-Research-Concentrace-
Mineral/dp/B000AMUWLK?th=1)

~~~
Charybdis
I've personally had great success with this particular product. At the end of
a long day of coding, when my brain seems "burnt out"/fuzzy, 20-30 drops of
this in a glass of water has an almost-immediate and noticeable impact (most
of the time).

------
sapilla
I found CBD to provide temporary relief - I think my depression was
inflammation related. The world is still dark and compressed but also
comfortable, like the dark corners fill with algae and the ground with grass.

What ended up working was improving my oral posture and articulation using
ortothropics and self-developed speech exercises (the important part is having
designed the exercises yourself). Suddenly it's vastly easier to maintain
correct spinal alignment and breathing. Depression is just an emotion again.

I supplement fish oil, gradeschool-tier mathematics and meditation, from
Vigyan Bhairava Tantra.

~~~
Genetikl33
Can you elaborate on oral posture and articulation? I have a major snoring
(apnea) and breathing issue due to dentistry mistakes (taking out teeth when I
should not have as a kid) and my face caved in which compresses my breathing.
This is my theory at least. I am curious because this is the first time I hear
about the concepts you brought up

~~~
sapilla
The most important thing is to have the tip of your tongue (almost) touching
your teeth and then gradually increasing the amount of tongue-to-roof-of-mouth
surface, beginning it the front - your current limit is where it blocks nasal
breathing. This stimulates horizontal (forwards) bone development vs. vertical
(downwards) development.

A "drill" I can recommend is writing out words a defined number of times (pick
a number you like between 10 and 100), as you write also pronounce them
without letting your tongue lose contact with the roof of your mouth. This may
feel very unnatural at first. If you don't like the result just recycle the
paper.

There's also the habit of sucking or pulling in your tongue - don't do that. I
think it causes jaw clenching. If you want a fast way to get rid of that,
invent metaphors for it and then watch yourself do it automatically in social
interactions.

Also check out ortothropics, it's the emerging science of facial development
through oral posture. They have a large collection of instructional material
on YouTube.

------
thorwasdfasdf
I hope this issue gets more attention. We're so undernourished when it comes
to Magnesium. Also, closely related is Calcium. Calcium and Magnesium work
closely together in the body for huge number of functions related to brain
health. Of particular importance is the ratio of calcium to magnesium. A
Significant portion of the population has their calcium to magnesium ratio way
too high, something like 10 to 1 or higher. This is not only due to too little
magnesium but also due to way too much calcium. It's not commonly known in the
US (because big food companies run the USDA recommendations), but you're only
supposed to get 500mg of calcium a day, not 1000mg like the USDA recommends.
There are so many studies that show that 1400mg+ is approaching a danger zone.
this is exacerbated by unusually low magnesium levels.

If you're looking to get more magnesium into your body, I'd recommend whole
foods rather than supplements. Supplements are often not absorbed by the body.
Whole foods high in magnesium include: leafy greens, nuts (especially
cashews), oatmeal, whole grains, beans. and if you want to find more high
nutrient foods try my nutrient based food search:
[https://kale.world/c](https://kale.world/c) (put the selector on magnesium)

~~~
nradov
How significant is that portion? Have there been any large scale clinical
studies recently on calcium and magnesium levels in the population?

Please cite your sources regarding the recommended calcium intake.

~~~
thorwasdfasdf
WHO (World Health organization) says 500mg.

~~~
nradov
False. The WHO recommends 1000mg for most adults. Adolescents, pregnant women,
and the elderly should get a little more.

[https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/42716/92415...](https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/42716/9241546123.pdf)

------
opportune
The first author has a publication called "zinc lozenges as a _cure_ for the
common cold" here:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906491)
and given that the author has his own "research institute" I'm highly
skeptical of this guy's ability to do science. Seems like some kind of
crackpot

I mean seriously look at this website: [https://m.george-eby-
research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/](https://m.george-eby-
research.com/app/welcome/5310242/36/)

~~~
billman
FYI, The title of his paper is "Zinc lozenges as cure for the common cold – A
review and hypothesis". I haven't read it, but the title seems reasonable.

~~~
opportune
In the publicly visible abstract it says:

" Zinc lozenges slowly dissolving in the mouth over a 20-30 min period
releasing adequate iZn (18 mg) used each 2h are hypothesized to shorten common
colds by 6-7 days, which is a cure for the common cold."

------
petercooper
I can't speak for depression, but I was suffering from muscle spasms and
tremors last year (both external and internal). Magnesium was suggested, I now
take two a day and they have almost entirely dissipated. It certainly wouldn't
surprise me that the presence or lack of such substances could have
significant effects upon the brain too though I have noticed no changes in
that regard.

~~~
wrnr
Same thing here. last year I had an almost constant spasm in my right eyelid,
after a cure of magnesium it disappeared. I did not find that it altered my
mood, I just happy to be relieved from the spasm.

------
shaki-dora
Needs a [2011] and some scepticism: Many people have tried Magnesium because
it is cheap and available without prescription. If it were as effective as
"success in 220 out of 250 cases" claims, that would show up.

The 220 of 250 claim also doesn't fit with "as effective as the tricyclic
antidepressant imipramine". No antidepressant is 90% effective.

~~~
yetihehe
Most cheap magnesium is magnesium carbonate which is least effective and
causes diarrhoea (should be taken with calcium to prevent that). Magnesium
aspartate is sometimes prescribed as "working one", but can be neurotoxic
(according to this paper).

~~~
gerbilly
I take magnesium bis-glycinate, it's well absorbed and has no serious side
effects.

~~~
yetihehe
Me too. I haven't tried other versions which are recommended by this paper,
but I can recommend bis-glycinate. I tried carbonate and it didn't work for
me. Recommended dose is 150mg/day, but I've found I need even 300mg/day (heavy
cofee drinker).

~~~
fxj
I take Mg Taurate against extrasystoles and it works very well for me. I also
tried Mg Citrate together with Carnitine which enhances the Mg uptake in the
gut. Mg Carbonate or Oxide are hardly soluble and also basic which makes it
not very digestable.

------
pmoriarty
An unusual but effective way of taking magnesium is taking epsom salt
(magnesium sulfate) baths. This way, the magnesium is absorbed through the
skin, so one does not have to worry about possibly not absorbing it through
the stomach when taking supplements orally.

------
aik
For anyone here that takes magnesium for sleep, why do you think it works for
you?

It works wonders for my sleep but I’ve never met anyone that shares that view.

~~~
petilon
The cells in our body depend on two essential minerals for normal function:
Calcium and magnesium. Cells go into ON state when calcium goes in, and OFF
state when calcium goes out. Calcium doesn't go out on its own: magnesium has
to go in and displace the calcium. When you are low on magnesium, cells can't
go into OFF state. When that happens your muscles become stiff and you need
massages, and your brain can't turn off and you can't sleep.

------
Nasrudith
I have some personal experiences to share - anecdotal and not that scientific.

I found it slightly helpful in my own treatment of depression. Not a miracle
cure - it was suggested essentially because Proton Pump Inhibitors I am
already on were known to worsen/cause it. In my case it seems to make
medication a bit more effective and helped thinking a little bit. A few times
when I ran out for a week or so waiting for the next bulk order to arrive it
eventually caused a mild worsening of mood that went away when resumed. I
don't know if I ever actually had deficiencies because needle phobia has meant
avoidance such that I can only list my blood type as a question mark.

------
lordgrenville
People that rely on desalinated water can become magnesium deficient. There
was a study in Israel about a rise in heart attacks based on magnesium
deficiency from desalination. [1] I wonder if there might be a mental health
angle to this as well.

[1] [https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-
wa...](https://www.timesofisrael.com/deficiencies-in-desalinated-water-could-
lead-to-increase-in-heart-attack-deaths/)

~~~
taneq
Hmm, the city I live in has been mixing in more and more desalinated water in
the last few years...

------
marban
I'm a cardio addict and do 250mg liquid Citrate and 200mg of Bisglycinate
before sleep. Otherwise restless legs syndrome would kick in badly during the
night. Sometimes adding 1.000mg of Gaba also helps with recovery and falling
asleep.

Just make sure to stay away from cheap Mg Oxide since bio-availability is
somewhere in the 4% range and usually comes in Multi-anything pills.

~~~
icxa
Someone recommended magnesium to help with my migraines (turns out it was an
eye imbalance), so it's been sitting in a drawer but I also have a hard time
staying asleep, and am wondering if I should crack it back out. I have some
stuff called "Natural Vitality" and it is magnesium carbonate 325mg, does this
sound decent to you?

~~~
marban
I've never seen Mg Carbonate in a sport supplement but I usually look for the
highest bio-availability and the least laxative effect. Hence, Bisglycinate is
my best choice. Usually comes in pills and rarely also (expensive) in liquid
shots w/ sweeteners.

------
kerkeslager
There are two huge confounding issues here which make it impossible for me to
conclude that Mg has an effect of depression based on the studies I've seen:

1\. Magnesium may treat anxiety rather than depression. This is analogous to
various SSRIs which arguably treat anxiety better than depression[1]. Anxiety
and depression are highly comorbid, and both doctors and patients may be bad
at differentiating between the symptoms, leading to "I feel better"-type
reporting. This might mean that Mg supplementation is a good thing for
depressed people because it treats their anxiety, not because it treats their
depression. This alternative hypothesis is particularly compelling because
magnesium deficiency has a variety of well-understood effects on muscle
tension[2] which mimic physical symptoms of anxiety.

2\. Magnesium is frequently supplemented concurrently with vitamin D, vitamin
K, calcium, and zinc. All of these are known to be active in humans, and
vitamin D in particular has been correlated with depression and seasonal
affective disorder.

[1] [https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-
update/](https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/11/07/ssris-an-update/) (see under
the bolded "fourth" comment--SSC has a bunch of posts on this topic).

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_deficiency#Diagnosis)

------
Genetikl33
Remember that it depends what type of Magnesium you take. Not all are created
equal. I recommend Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium. Since taking that
one for many years, digestive issues massively improved with slight
improvements in sleep and overall mood.

~~~
tomhoward
Another one that may work better for people: magnesium malate.

For some people it can be more easily absorbed than other forms, and the malic
acid (which occurs naturally in apples and other fruits) can support the
Kreb's cycle that produces mitochondrial energy (which is also linked to mood
and general healthy functioning of the body).

------
nate_meurer
I'll add my own story to the anecdata: my young daughter suffered from chronic
constipation for years, nearly her whole life in fact. About two years ago I
started her on magnesium supplementation, and within two days the constipation
stopped. It has only returned once, on vacation when I had neglected to bring
the magnesium with us.

The supplementation is simple and rudimentary. I add epsom salt to the tea
that we drink as a family each morning. The dosage ends up at about 90 mg of
elemental magnesium per day for her. From what I've read this is below the
accepted therapeutic dose, but the I believe the cessation of her constipation
is unlikely to be a coincidence.

------
dade_
An excuse to use too much maple syrup!
[https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2](https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5602/2)

~~~
opportune
I see lots of manganese, but you would need to be consuming truly absurd
amounts of syrup for the magnesium in maple syrup to amount to much. It says
it has 11% of your DV in a cup, which is also 840kcal of mostly sugar

------
chillytoes
I first read about magnesium supplements in a random Hacker News comment a
year ago. Taking them cured my insomnia. If anyone thinks they might benefit
from Mg, I definitely encourage you to do the research.

------
55555
Am I the only person that magnesium makes feel, well, dumber? Pretty much
everything that's anxiolytic or GABAnergenic makes me feel dumber (along with
nicely relaxed).

------
mntmoss
I just started magnesium again after a month or so off the stuff. I have the
bottle right here in fact...

What I originally got it for was percieved joint pains in the morning jogging
routine I had just started. I seemed to get some results but wanted to do an
A/B, and while I don't have lab results to correlate, I did start noticing
some joint issues again by the end. So we'll see where I stand after a week.

------
n1000
There are different forms to take Mg and they seem to come with different
effects and side effects. It may take a while to find one that works.

~~~
koboll
Tried it briefly and then quit after I realized it was causing excruciating
chest pain. Would be nice to have stayed on it to realize the mood effects,
but not even close to worth it for me.

------
jeffdavis
Is Mg normally tested in blood tests? Seems like you could just read the
results, and if low take supplements; if not, don't.

~~~
cmbuck
> "Since 99% of Mg is intracellular, serum Mg testing of the remaining 1%
> found in serum will produce misleading results (Mann and Truswell, 2002) and
> it should not be used in future research."

Elsewhere in the article they reference testing being of "negative utility"

------
stevenmays
Magnesium supplementation changed my life. Better sleep, faster recovery from
work outs, better more stable moods

~~~
aNoob7000
How much are you taking daily?

------
qwsxyh
It feels like internet people legitimately believe dietary changes can cure
every single disease sometimes.

~~~
whenchamenia
Considering how many diseases are caused by lack of, or an excess of specific
coumpounds, they are often right. Disease does not always refer to
virus/bacteria caused malaides.

------
mnorton
I have heard folks say one of the best ways to absorb magnesium is an empsom
salt bath. Not sure if there is "science" on this, but hear it is one of the
great benefits of a float tank.

~~~
afo
Agreed. I float 2-4x/month and can confirm that I sleep way better and
generally have an increase in mood. I'd highly recommend it.

------
Aardwolf
Just another mineral you need enough from to add to the list... It'd be useful
to have permanent monitoring of your body to know which ones you have too much
and too little from imho

------
kazinator
Interesting. Maybe, eat more green leafies? Magnesium is what makes plants
green (as the center atom in the organo-metallic molecule known as
chlorophyll).

------
koboll
>Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined
grains, in the Western world, harming the brain and causing mood disorders.

This seems to be the case with many such nutrients.

I almost wonder if the most effective solution isn't a medical approach but a
medically-informed, government-led incentive program to convince food
manufacturers to reintroduce the essential nutrients they strip out of food.

~~~
icxa
When the US government is in charge of feeding people healthy foods, they came
up with the now defunct "Food Pyramid" and school lunch, which featured
classic gems like "government cheese", "square pizza" and my favorite, mystery
meat "salisbury steak"

~~~
maroonblazer
But weren't they simply following the lead of the most widely accepted science
at the time? As science has learned more the government recommendations have
evolved as well, albeit perhaps not as rapidly or comprehensively as they
could.

~~~
ncmncm
The "food pyramid" you saw plastered all over your school cafeteria was
concocted and distributed by the Dairy Council, a powerful marketing
organization that has succeeded in establishing taxing authority over dairies
in many states. If you wonder who's paying for "eat more cheese" billboards,
they are paid out of that tax. It is more of an advertising cartel than
anything dairies want.

As you might expect, it is the billboard owners and poster printers who
benefit most from the expenditures. The American Cancer Society, similarly, is
mainly a printer of junk mail.

------
GrumpyNl
Take some hart burn medicine and you get all the magnesium you can handle.

~~~
moh_maya
Heart burn meds are often Mg Oxide or sulfate, which isn't that well absorbed.
[1,2] for anxiety and depression, Mg Citrate works well, as does Mg Glycinate
[3]

Just a heads up.

[1][http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-
medicine/integ...](http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/family-
medicine/integrative-health/health-topics/the-benefits-of-magnesium.html)

[2][https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2407766/)

[3] [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-
psychia...](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-
psychiatry/201106/magnesium-and-the-brain-the-original-chill-pill)

~~~
dageshi
I think it might not be absorbed as well, but often there is just a lot more
magnesium in oxide than glycinate. So even though it absorbs worse more
actually ends up being absorbed in the end.

Personally I've felt a more potent reaction from oxide than glycinate,
possibly for that reason.

------
MichaelMoser123
Pink Himalayan salt is supposed to be rich in magnesium. I wonder if it
contains enough magnesium to make a difference with depression.

------
BadassFractal
Poor man's TLDR: we're not sure yet, but consider taking magnesium
supplementation to help with or prevent MD. The downside of light Mg
supplementation seems trivial, and the upside could be strong.

~~~
Tharkun
Mg deficiency is also implicated in some cardiac arrhythmias and
supplementation has been shown to help.

~~~
jerf
That's why I'm taking it. I have an absorption disease (Celiac) and I was
having terrible cardiac issues at 38 (and with a minor family history of heart
issues at older age, but nothing like what I was having). Magnesium is one of
the things it has taken to straighten it out.

If you have heart issues, you may have to try to balance magnesium and
potassium. If the problem is a deficiency, this is a rather annoyingly
difficult balancing act to pull off, because as per the comments in the
beginning of Gwern's article about magnesium, magnesium has a very slow-moving
component to it, where it depletes slowly but also only fills slowly, and a
fast moving component that responds relatively quickly, and based on my
experience, the heart's use of magnesium seems to be related to both.
Potassium, by contrast, appears to take nearly instant effect. So you're
balancing something you can't see that changes over the course of months or
years against a nutritional input that is instant. This is not easy.

Several times I've settled on a dosing schedule that seemed to work for me,
but had to be changed after a couple of months as the slow-pool magnesium (I
hope) continued to improve. I've actually learned the difference in my body's
reactions to a potassium deficiency (a tightness in the chest) vs. a magnesium
deficiency (restless legs, heart that may not be "racing" but is not slowing
down for sleep properly). YMMV; n=1, etc.

~~~
fxj
I have HOCM and afib and Mg and potassium helps wonder with the extrasystoles.
I also take taurine against the extrasystoles in combination with Mg and K in
the evening before going to bed and I can sleep much better.

~~~
jerf
Yeah, I didn't go into the whole spiel as off-topic (and this comment isn't
the whole spiel, either...), but taurine for heart issues seems like something
that should just be tried by almost anyone experiencing them. It has basically
no overdose risk, as it's an amino acid everybody consumes anyhow, and there
are many papers showing it can help. So, very cheap, basically no downside,
possible significant upside, abundant scientific support. It was one of the
first things I tried that had an immediate, positive effect.

Digging into this sort of thing did convince me there's a lot of truth in the
idea that you can't get the medical world very interested in solutions that
don't come with a patentable treatment. There's a lot of papers I've found
about how much heart stuff can be treated by correcting various deficiencies,
such as taurine, or magnesium & potassium, but it all seems very under-
utilized by the medical community themselves.

Example:
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16797868)

(Incidentally, just as that abstract says, the literature suggest adding
L-Arginine to your taurine may also be beneficial as they work together. If
you're fine now, I wouldn't suggest rocking the boat, but if it's only 80-90%
effective or something, you may want to consider adding that as there's a
decent chance it could take you to 100%.)

------
idiot900
This smells like a crackpot. The first author’s affiliation is his own
“research institute”: [https://m.george-eby-research.com/](https://m.george-
eby-research.com/) and they claim a simple, somehow overlooked solution to a
difficult problem, citing flimsy and ancient studies.

~~~
lettergram
I generally agree with you, but lithium is also used to treat bi-polar
disorder (among others) and it was discovered by accident. People used to
recommend it without any data supporting it. I suspect this is how most
treatments start

~~~
tokai
>lithium [...] was discovered by accident.

No it was not. Development of treatment with lithium was very much a part of
psychiatric normal science.

~~~
reneberlin
I'm sorry - you are wrong. John Cade found the effects - with animals - by
accident. And he was widely ignored because of his lack of fundamental,
industry-wide standards for exploration.

Neverless: lithium is now the way to go with clinical treatment of a wide
range of disorders and reducing self-harm and suicide rates.

The problem so far: nobody is sure why it works.

The dose is worth mentioning. Clients receive a dose of 200-500mg per day. The
lithium you can buy without prescription contains around 1mg. Effects are
still there, but the dose on the subjects of matter are quite high and can be
toxic if done wrong.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_(medication)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_\(medication\))

~~~
phkahler
Wish we knew why it works. But it's also nice that something is accepted based
on data alone. Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of
explanation alone. But that's the whole point - observe and then try to figure
out why or how.

~~~
gus_massa
> _Many people in science tend to reject claims based on a lack of explanation
> alone._

Do you have a good example? Most of the examples I think of are just results
got by badly run clinical trials or unreproducible physics experiments.

------
Ice_cream_suit
Good old fashioned crackpot science...

------
wiggler00m
Why supplement magnesium instead of getting it from dietary sources?

~~~
anonu
You didnt read the article. From the article:

> Magnesium has been largely removed from processed foods, especially refined
> grains, in the Western world,

~~~
cmbuck
You seem to be extrapolating that since refined grains do not contain Mg, no
foods do. This is not the case. OP can eat other foods instead of processed
grains to obtain Mg.

------
debt
I don't get it, why do I so regularly see these random solutions to depression
on the homepage? Are startup founders really depressed or something? Is there
a rash of suicides in this community? I don't get it.

Overwhelmingly, normal-ass anti-anxiety, SSRs, and therapy is to be the best
form of treatment. Pumping your body full of magnesium is a hack that falls in
to the bucket of exercise or sleeping more.

If you're scared about going to the doctor and getting prescribed, that's one
thing. But mainlining crushed up magnesium vitamins to fix your depression is
a complete lack of understanding of depression.

Magnesium is not treatment. Mushrooms and Ketamine is not treatment. Get
actual treatment.

