
We demand BuzzFeed pay out earned paid time off to its recent laid-off employees - minimaxir
https://medium.com/@BuzzFeedNewsStaffCouncil/letter-to-buzzfeed-pto-layoffs-f79d9c857a21
======
zaroth
There’s just one paragraph missing.

If PTO isn’t paid out on termination, then PTO cannot be safely accrued.

The undersigned should state that this behavior leaves them with no choice but
to draw down their PTO balance, perhaps starting a specific day next week.

But I wonder if the employees that weren’t in a state which requires paying
out PTO balances had _expected_ to be paid their PTO balance? Usually this is
one of those things that’s addressed in the employment contract.

~~~
adetrest
The US is just nuts. Are you saying that your earned but unused PTO doesn't
_have_ to be paid out to you when you're laid off but is rather at the
discretion of the employer? How is that justifiable in any way? Does the bank
owe you accrued interest when you close your account or is it up to them to
pay it? Why would it be different for PTO?

~~~
rwz
At my first job in US I had about a year and a half of unused PTO accumulated.
I gave my two week notice like a good team player I was and then left on the
agreed upon date.

I obviously didn't get any of the PTO paid to me and in retrospect realize
that I could have just taken my last two weeks off with the same outcome.

I was so sure that there must be some law that would force employer to pay out
unused PTO, that I haven't even thought about researching it in advance. This
was a rude "welcome to United States, bitch" awakening for me.

~~~
londons_explore
How does one accrue a year and a half of paid time off?

Don't most companies cap it at 5 days or something?

~~~
moftz
A place I used to work set it at 160 hours, got bought, then changed it to 80
hours, everyone made a big enough stink by threatening to take off during
critical times. They changed it the cap to two times your yearly accrual rate
which put the cap somewhere between 240 and 400 hours depending on your
seniority. The cap was nice but it was almost impossible to use that much
leave with the amount of job responsibility you had. You could sell your hours
but it had to be agreed on at the beginning of the year and the payout spread
out across the year so there was no way you could get a quick influx of cash.

------
gerbal
Maybe they BuzzFeed's remaining employees should unionize to keep this same
shit from happening to them.

~~~
onetimemanytime
Another company tried that: "News workers unionized. Days later, they were
jobless. Was it payback?" [https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2017/nov/04/dnainfo-goth...](https://www.theguardian.com/us-
news/2017/nov/04/dnainfo-gothamist-union-ricketts-shutdown)

~~~
cribbles
See also Mic,[1] which laid off its entire editorial staff in response to the
formation of a union (but prior to a contract being signed).

For counterexamples, see Vice,[2] which negotiated a nearly 30% pay hike in
their first union contract, and Slate,[3] whose editorial union recently
negotiated a $51,000 starting salary with annual pay increases.

Note that a union is not a guarantee against layoffs. See [4]: the Huffington
Post recently lost 15 of its unionized employees to a layoff. On the upside,
they were contractually guaranteed severance pay - because they collectively
bargained for it.

[1] [https://www.businessinsider.com/mic-layoff-bustle-union-
labo...](https://www.businessinsider.com/mic-layoff-bustle-union-labor)

[2] [https://gawker.com/vice-writers-get-a-union-contract-
with-a-...](https://gawker.com/vice-writers-get-a-union-contract-with-a-big-
raise-1771276669)

[3] [https://wwd.com/business-news/media/slate-media-editorial-
st...](https://wwd.com/business-news/media/slate-media-editorial-staff-union-
deal-1202965162/)

[4]
[https://twitter.com/HuffPostUnion/status/1088524725259628544](https://twitter.com/HuffPostUnion/status/1088524725259628544)

------
cperciva
This seems like an excellent thing to ask for the next time they're
negotiating a contract.

But it seems a bit late to complain about the terms of a contract after said
contract has ended.

~~~
maxerickson
That's pretty much the classic mistake individuals make when dealing with
businesses though. There's no reason to restrict yourself to the legal system
and terms of a contract if you think you have leverage enough to do better.

~~~
maxerickson
See:

[https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/media/buzzfeed-layoffs-
pto/in...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/media/buzzfeed-layoffs-
pto/index.html)

------
born_a_beetle
read your contract when you get hired, people. You shouldn't expect anything
more than what's guaranteed right there in front of you.

~~~
reasonablemann
The funny thing is a lot of people think the company they work for cares about
their wellbeing.

When you realize they don't care about you, they will feel it. And your pay
will go up. I guarantee.

~~~
catacombs
You mind elaborating on this? Are you saying the mentality is to just show up,
do the job within the allotted day then head home, knowing the company doesn't
owe you thing, no matter how many extra hours you put in?

~~~
sundaeofshock
Seems like a good idea to me. Why go above and beyond when the company won’t
do the same for you?

------
ggm
Why, why do so many "trendy" companies shit on workers rights?

~~~
geofft
Because just as individual contributors change employers a lot, managers also
change employers often enough that the reputation of mistreating workers
doesn't stick to anything.

My own employer recently hired a handful of senior HR folks from Uber. They
started after I joined. I hate it, but what can I do? I know they were
_present_ at Uber during Susan Fowler's very strange year; I don't know if
they were actually the people making decisions. And if I preemptively quit,
what is my guarantee that the next place will be any better?

~~~
hedora
Talk to the person that hired them, and see what sort of references they came
with.

~~~
dvfjsdhgfv
I really can't imagine that unless you're a senior manager yourself. Most
likely the answer would be a surprised and more or less sensibly worded "it's
none of your business".

~~~
astura
That's even assuming you know whose responsible for hiring them, which you
don't, unless you work in a 5 person company.

------
jaak
The company I currently work at uses the term "awarded" instead of accrued for
PTO. This is their way of justifying not paying out unused PTO at termination
(ie. it was not "earned" therefor they don't have to pay it out).

------
sct202
There really needs to be more national level laws around PTO. Like my current
employer has a policy to pay it out, but recently they've decided to cut our
maximum rollovers from 6+ weeks (150% of accrual) to 1 week maximum from year
to year. First world problems but this year I'm going to be taking a ton of
days off.

I mean sure they can do that, but why can't we just have a set rule and stick
with it?

------
brokensegue
i thought this was the law?

Edit: oh only in CA

~~~
minimaxir
It’s worth noting many CA BuzzFeed employees (including myself) signed the
petition.

~~~
exogeny
Max, what is your take on what's going on? Would love an insider's
perspective, to the extent that you're comfortable with giving it.

~~~
minimaxir
Other BF employees on Twitter (and recently-laid off employees) attest to the
current mood better than I can.
[https://twitter.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40B...](https://twitter.com/search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40BuzzFeedNewsStaffCouncil%2Fletter-
to-buzzfeed-pto-layoffs-f79d9c857a21&src=typed_query)

------
ykevinator
Even though buzz feed is awful and just contributes to cultural obesity, they
should pay people accrued pto. This is a lowlife move.

~~~
apl002
yep i fully agree with you

------
solarkraft
A company does no more than what's required by the law. I'm not sure I can get
upset about that.

~~~
Joky
Can we get upset at the (lack of) law?

~~~
solarkraft
Yes.

------
andrew_
I've worked for many companies that don't pay out accrued PTO - PTO at those
companies was use-it-or-lose-it. But I also understood that going in, and I
understood that when I read the employee handbooks and explanation of
benefits.

It seems folks might have overlooked that bit of their employment. California
is obviously a large exception. However, if an employer doesn't state that you
get a particular benefit, or fails to explain how a benefit is managed, the
onus falls on the employee to understand what they're signing on for. To
expect otherwise drips of entitlement.

~~~
minimaxir
One of the issues here is that PTO isn't always easy to use.

> No one at BuzzFeed told me not to use PTO. I had a lot saved because I was
> busy and wanted to be there for my team.

[https://twitter.com/FranBerkman/status/1089675336407752704](https://twitter.com/FranBerkman/status/1089675336407752704)

> I have worked more holidays than I can count, and have gone on tough
> reporting trips where I’ve worked 16-hour days for days in a row.

> I have about a month’s worth of comp days as a result. If I’d been laid off
> Friday, I wouldn’t have gotten paid for it.

[https://twitter.com/juliareinstein/status/108967206892331417...](https://twitter.com/juliareinstein/status/1089672068923314176)

~~~
andrew_
Yes, that all boils down to accountability for one's own choices. They made
poor choices, that's just what it is. Now they're clamoring for something that
wasn't promised to them. There's a degree of responsibility that these folks
are tossing out the window in favor of entitlement.

