
Silicon Valley's women have spoken. Now what? - happy-go-lucky
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40465519
======
TheAdamAndChe
> But looking long-term, a more gender-diverse technology industry is seen as
> the only genuine solution to this problem.

I disagree with this. Diversity shouldn't be required to keep people from
being sexist, and forced diversity would only work to spread disdain towards
women in the field.

On top of this, an emphasis on diversity implies the differences between the
genders are purely cultural, which is just false. There are legitimate
physical[1] and psychological[2] differences between the sexes which lead to
differences in career preferences. If we want to improve this culture, we need
to learn how to do it within an environment with more men than women.

The cynical side of me thinks this push for diversity is merely a method being
attempted to increase the labor pool and lower leverage among tech workers.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_humans)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_psychology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_psychology)

edit: To those upvoting or downvoting to responses in this thread, please
comment explaining your reasoning. This is an emotional topic, and only
through logical argument will the conversation move forward.

~~~
whateveracct
> There are legitimate physical[1] and psychological[2] differences between
> the sexes which lead to differences in career preferences

What physical and psychological differences cause more men than women to go
into tech? Do you __really __think that it 's something like that rather than
pervasive social problems in the industry that make it hostile to women as
described in the article and many others? This isn't a hypothetical question
I'd love to hear your response :)

Women are perfectly innately physically and psychologically capable of doing
the work in tech I and my male coworkers do. The reason for lack of parity is
elsewhere and is definitely not benign.

~~~
drakenot
What about the lack of diversity of men in elementary teacher positions?
Nursing?

Where is the big push to bring men into these fields?

~~~
jrkatz
There is. [https://www.edutopia.org/male-teacher-
shortage](https://www.edutopia.org/male-teacher-shortage)

Presumably equality there isn't as exciting to people because teacher pay is
garbage for everybody, whereas in tech it looks like women are being locked
out of one of our most lucrative industries.

~~~
drakenot
I've been hearing about the lack of diversity my whole career and I'm sick of
it.

Women aren't being kept out. They keep themselves out. There is a social
stigma in the United States against going into technical fields in the first
place amongst women.

India, for example, has no stigma of women working in tech. It is no
coincidence that the vast majority of woman I have worked with have all been
from other countries. They earn good salaries and are strong contributors on
the teams I've been on.

There were exactly 2 females in my Computer Science program in college.
Eventually there was just one who graduated with us.

No amount of blog posts or news articles about diversity at companies will fix
that. The problem is WAY earlier than that. You aren't going to be able to
magically find a plethora of adult female engineers if they simply aren't
enrolling in the programs in the first place.

~~~
rayiner
You say "women aren't being kept out," but then admit there is a "social
stigma against women going into tech." Which is it?

~~~
drakenot
There is a social stigma, but, as far as I can tell, it seems to largely be a
stigma between women themselves. Even if there is some wider social stigma, I
don't think that it constitutes "being kept out."

There is a similar social stigma against men being nurses, but I wouldn't
claim that men are being "kept out of nursing." It is just looked at slightly
oddly by some and this leads to less male nurses. Why is there not more noise
about this imbalance?

The whole problem is that all of the discussion around the issue of women in
tech seems to focus on the problem way too late in the "pipeline". It is
trying to address the symptoms after the damage is already done.

Trying to focus on hiring more women, as a goal unto itself, seems wrong to
me. The problem isn't hiring more women. That leads to people hiring under-
qualified women simply because they are women. The problem is that the supply
is crazy low because <20% of Computer Science graduates are women in the
United States.

So, if you want to fix this imbalance then fix the stigma. Perhaps have a
marketing campaign that makes it seem less socially damning to be a girl
hacker while they are an adolescent.

------
draw_down
Ok. If things actually get better, then great. If it's much ado about nothing,
not great.

------
rectang
This article has been flagged off of the HN front page. Like many similar
articles.

Hacker News, your flagging algorithm is part of the problem.

------
rectang
Instead of listening to men telling us why we don't have a problem, listen to
women.

For example Susan Fowler's "Five Things Tech Companies Can Do Better":
[https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-
tech...](https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/5/20/five-things-tech-
companies-can-do-better)

