
Verizon to end some sale of phone-location data - QUFB
https://www.apnews.com/8582857aff8146f8ac81d247533b2177/APNewsBreak:-Verizon-to-end-some-sale-of-phone-location-data
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nawgszy
It's absolutely mind-boggling that they are allowed to sell phone location
data in the first place without any real consent from their customers.

That's why it must really say something about these companies - Verizon
especially - that them voluntarily stopping such a practice makes me imagine
they have nefarious motives in mind.

Either that, or they just think net neutrality's death is going to be so much
more profitable than this that it's not worth the man-hours anymore.

~~~
krn
There is a saying, that if you pay for a service - you are a customer, and if
you don't - you are a product. But in the US, it seems, you are a product,
either way.

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eslaught
It's standard profit maximization. If you can get a customer to pay $X, and
then also sell their data on the side for $Y, then why wouldn't you do it?

The thing people don't seem to realize is that it's not just enough to pay
money for what you use. You have to pay more than $X + $Y, i.e. you have to
explicitly price yourself out of the price bracket of customers who are
willing to put up with being the product.

This means that services where users are a product are going to continue to be
the norm as long as a significant fraction of consumers are willing to put up
with it.

~~~
lotsofpulp
In the case of Verizon and ATT, and other ISPs, it doesn't matter how many are
willing to put up with it since there are no other options.

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kylehotchkiss
When you open a bank account, they sometimes check the location of your phone
and reference it to your address and browser location (Whenever banks
mentioned this in their registration process, they don't seem to ask for
copies of IDs).

It's sketchy how the banks get that data, but makes me feel slightly better
nobody will get away with opening a bank account in my name without ID copies?

~~~
lakechfoma
Not that I don't believe you, but I'd love to see a source for this. What
banks do this and where do they disclose it?

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kylehotchkiss
Capital One ([https://www.capitalone.com/terms-personal-
data/](https://www.capitalone.com/terms-personal-data/))

"When you apply, we may do a one-time check with your phone provider (cell
and/or landline) to get billing info, geo-location, and/or device data. This
helps us make sure your home address matches your phone's billing address.
Your phone's physical location can also alert us to higher risk situations.
For example, if you're applying for an account while in a foreign country, we
want to make sure no one is impersonating you. Don't worry - we still open
accounts for people who are on vacation, moving, etc. This is just one more
clue to help us solve the puzzle of if it's you or someone impersonating you.
Also, geo-location, billing data, and device info will only be used for fraud
prevention; it won't be used for marketing, mailing lists, or anything else.
Your data collected by us will be stored for the life of your account plus
five years."

I remember HSBC requesting the same permissions but it's harder to find their
account opening disclosure terms.

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srehnborg
They can sell my location but somehow can't figure out how to share that
information with emergency services.

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confounded
They (almost certainly) use the AGPS capabilities mandated by the E911 system.

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rlvesco7
Verizon has a section of their site to turn off marketing and adjust privacy
settings. Notably absent is the ability to turn off location sharing. I
emailed the privacy department and they totally dodged my question. I still
would like, and think it's important to have, an option to opt out of _all_
location sharing. I don't care if it's for fraud prevention since that is
easily abused by companies.

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brookhaven_dude
Is there anything in iOS that can protect against this?

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mpol
No, it is outside of the Operating System. This happens at a lower level, in
the firmware of the chips with GPS and modem. Every 5 seconds your location
data is sent to the cell tower. Even if you turn off all your connections and
GPS, it will still happen anyway, it will only be presented as off to your
Operating System.

~~~
redbeard0x0a
Additionally, even if you could turn off GPS and other data services (i.e. a
flip phone or similar) that data is still collected because you are always
connected to a physical tower that has a physical location. So looking at
these records, your location can be inferred, as well as all your usage data
can be aggregated together and sold.

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Retric
Without GPS the data is vastly less accurate and thus less valuable.

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a_c
I assume every apps that read your location data are selling them. Since no
one wish to pay for apps, companies look for other ways to monetize. Some
choose ads, some sell your data.

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ocdtrekkie
The issue at hand here isn't free apps that ask for location data, but paying
mobile phone subscribers, whose location data is collected directly by the
phone company.

