
A Multibillion-Dollar U.S. Spy Agency Few Know Exists - arman0
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/20/the-multibillion-dollar-u-s-spy-agency-you-havent-heard-of-trump/
======
ccrush
Why is this a political hit piece instead of an article? Thanks for the two
facts about the agency, but were half dozen or so attacks on the POTUS really
necessary? If anything, the previous POTUS, a constitutional scholar that
campaigned on ending domestic surveillance, has recently relaxed the rules on
espionage by allowing non-intelligence agencies to access surveillance data.
Furthermore, I don't think it's fair to turn an article about a little-known
government agency into bullshit click bait propaganda. Either title the post
"look at what Trump can do with the nation's aerial and spatial espionage
agency" or make it substantially about that. This is pure click bait garbage,
and it is disguised as being of interest to this community to spread
propaganda. I would be fine with an opinion or two thrown in there, but making
the first two paragraphs about the agency and the rest of it an opinion and
hit piece is just a waste of everyone's time. Thanks for the garbage post.

~~~
partiallypro
I agree with you, but I did think the article was still good. You can ignore
the talking points in it and it stands on its own. It's possible that this was
revised number of times, and the author was either more or less heavy handed
on the political side. FP Magazine hates Trump, if you've read their
publication, so this is no surprise. The biggest eye roll moment for me was
Trump targeting "Black Lives Matter" like he would foreign terrorists.

~~~
downandout
Well over half of the article is nothing but speculation designed for
fearmongering among their audience (who are undoubtedly extremely liberal,
judging from the other Trump articles on their site).

~~~
dmix
It depends on the author and subject, FP has some decent writing and some
excellent geopolitical analysis.

Although I haven't been reading it as much since the election - maybe the
editors are pushing the anti-Trump angle hard like NYTimes has been
shamelessly doing recently. It's writers are very 'internationalist' and
focused on geopolitical diplomacy so a lot of them are falling under the 'I'm
appalled at Trump and must bring it up at every moment to show that America is
still okay'.

It's tough being a news junkie and not being a typical foaming at the mouth US
mainstream liberal these days (which to the surprise of many in that category
does not make one a right wing Trump supporter, nor American for that matter).

------
AndrewKemendo
It's not for lack of effort that NGA is not more widely known. In fact NGA has
a pretty great portal for NGA specific consumer applications which leverage
unclassified GEOINT capabilities:

[https://apps.nga.mil/Home](https://apps.nga.mil/Home)

Not all are great, but some of the apps are really useful and valuable.

It's a huge and hugely valuable organization that has started to become the
analysis backbone for current intelligence - largely because decision makers
want photos.

The AF and NRO run the satellite system, but pretty much everything valuable
that is in Low Earth Orbit that takes "pictures" is processed and analyzed
through the NGA - then fused and productized with all source data from
CIA/DIA/NSA.

Truly invaluable organization - if bloated (like everything in the USG).

~~~
iamacynic
yeah, the headline sounds sinister but more likely mundane truth is NGA
finally got a marketing/PR budget, and landed a story in FP.

------
Afforess
The NGA is up there with the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) in lack of
public exposure. The NRO launches a lot of the satellites the NGA also uses
for GEOINT and spying in general. NRO launches are part of the public record,
but their missions are almost never revealed, and all clandestine in nature.
The launch craft and missions are frequently given ... frankly villainous
names and logos ... I wish I was jesting, but take a look for yourself:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_launches)
. I don't know how else to describe a mission with a motto like "Nothing Is
Beyond Our Reach" with a Cthulu-entity as the figurehead - for a government
agency mission no less.

People are always sort of disbelieving when I show them this sort of thing, in
plain day. I can't figure out how the media has managed to never capitalize on
this.

~~~
planteen
Missile squadrons also have creepy patches. Like this:
[http://m.ebay.com/itm/221802923522?_mwBanner=1](http://m.ebay.com/itm/221802923522?_mwBanner=1)

~~~
velodrome
I think the mission patches are quite clever...

------
Overtonwindow
Actually it's very well known in terms of MASIN and GEOINT. I once even
interviewed with them back in the day, and they don't do a lot to hide their
presence. I think they're not in the news a lot because what NGIA does and
what Google and a lot of private satellite imagery companies do, is really the
same.

~~~
AndrewKemendo
As a point of reference, NGA is the National Intelligence Manager (NIM) for
GEOINT, while DIA is the NIM for MASINT.

[1][https://www.dni.gov/index.php/about/faq?start=2](https://www.dni.gov/index.php/about/faq?start=2)

------
TACIXAT
>With the capability to watch an area of 10 or even 15 square miles at a time,
it would take just two drones hovering over Manhattan to continuously observe
and follow all outdoor human activity, night and day.

This is not correct. Manhattan has tall buildings which are a great defense
against arial surveillance. They also do not do active monitoring. So if you
travel more than 10 - 15 miles, you would end up entering or exiting their
surveillance radius, which means they couldn't link your entire set of actions
together.

Further, the resolution is not very good. They can currently trace back cars
and humans walking, but the features are not great. So if you were to board a
bus and exit the bus, and you weren't wearing some very distinct color (or you
took off your jacket), you would be lost to them.

The company that provides this service is called PSS. I do not like them very
much. [1]

1\. [https://www.pss-1.com/](https://www.pss-1.com/)

~~~
MichaelMoser123
They can track your location by looking at the current cell id of you phone
connection (also a much better way of identification) so what's the point of
these drones?

Also there are lots of CCTV cameras at every corner for tracking people
without a cell phone.

------
arjie
Page 60 of _Coup d 'État_ by Edward Luttwak describes a large number of US
intelligence agencies, the nominal hierarchy, and (I think) the actual
hierarchy.

The NGA is in there, interestingly, along with a bunch of others I never
thought existed.

~~~
theWatcher37
Care to list it here?

~~~
notpeter
It lists 21 distinct agencies:

* Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI)

* Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)

* National Security Agency (NSA)

* Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence (OICI)

* Border and Customs Service Intelligence Unit [Homeland]

* US Coast Guard Intelligence [Homeland]

* Office of Homeland investigations [Homeland]

* Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) [State]

* Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence [Treasury]

* Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) [Defense]

* National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)

* National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)

* US Cyber Command

* US Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency (ISR)

* National Air and Space Reconnaissance Center (NASIC)

* US Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM)

* National Ground Intelligence Center (NGIC) [Army]

* US Marine Core Intelligence Activity (MCIA)

* US Navy Department's Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)

* FBI National Security Branch [Justice]

* Office of National Security Intelligence of Drug Enforcement Administration (ONSI DEA) [Justice]

Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook, Revised Edition (2016) by Edward N.
Luttwak. Pages 60-62

[http://amzn.to/2nlZrDC](http://amzn.to/2nlZrDC)

The first edition (1968) is timeless, but the revised edition (2016) is
amazingly on-point and is updated to reflect the structural changes which have
occurred in the half century since it's first printing. It's only 300-odd
pages, highly recommended.

~~~
caf
_US Marine Core Intelligence Activity (MCIA)_

Is that a... bureaucratic pun?

~~~
tbihl
A misspelling, as Google will quickly confirm.

------
luckydude
I'm pretty sure I did a ton of work for these folks. In about 1994 or 1995 was
the boss a woman? If so, yeah, I know these people and have some stories that
I can share because in spite of their desire to get me to get clearance, I
didn't. Which was a good choice on my part but wasn't that clear at the time.

If these are the same people, in 1994 they could read 3 inch headlines from a
satellite. That was the stuff I worked on.

Edit: in reading through the thread I wonder if the people I knew were the
NRO.

------
foxhedgehog
Are journalists just going to do this with every agency in the IC now? FEW
KNOW THAT THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT TRACKS MONEY LAUNDERING, COULD TRUMP COME
AFTER YOUR WELLS FARGO ACCOUNT?

~~~
jedberg
Actually it's the Secret Service that tracks money laundering. Contrary to
popular belief, that is actually their main job -- protecting the currency of
the United States. Protecting the President is just their side job.

You're partly right though -- up until 2003 they were part of the Treasury
department, but they were re-orged into DHS when it was created.

But your point is still valid.

~~~
briandear
You're partly right: Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network is one of
the lead agencies that combat money laundering. There's a huge amount of
overlap though.

------
wonderous
This agency is not secret; in fact, Google Earth (aka Keyhole) was a startup
they backed:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole,_Inc](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole,_Inc)

------
jbronn
All that copy and they don't even mention the NRO, who design and operate
satellite sources the NGA depends upon.

~~~
mirimir
> In 1961, the CIA and the Air Force jointly formed a centralized
> administrative office to run the spy satellite program. This was the
> National Reconnaissance Office, an organisation so secret that even today
> [1982] its very name is considered classified information. (p.243)

> \-- James Bamford: THE PUZZLE PALACE, 1982.

[http://n3krozoft.com/_xxbcf67373.TMP/NSA/nro.html](http://n3krozoft.com/_xxbcf67373.TMP/NSA/nro.html)

------
mankash666
I'm no fan of trump or his propensity to bend the rules. But this article is
prophecizing doomsday scenarios with far too much gusto to be taken seriously.

Yes, I learned of a stealthily intelligence agency, but also learned that
today's news outlets don't really have editorial integrity

------
supernumerary
Side note: the 'persistent stare' tech mentioned in the article used to go
under the evocative aegis: 'gorgon stare'.

------
gozur88
>The NGA is to pictures what the NSA is to voices. Its principal function is
to analyze the billions of images and miles of video captured by drones in the
Middle East and spy satellites circling the globe.

Eh, what? What does the National Reconnaissance Office do, then? I thought
that was their job.

~~~
caf
It seems like the NRO build and operate the platforms, and the NGA has the
analysts that task them and look at the results.

------
avar
Here's the video referenced in the intro where Obama doesn't know what the NGA
is:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC7tG48iTj4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC7tG48iTj4)

~~~
canistr
I misread the "Five Guys" as "Five Eyes" in the video title.

Five Eyes Burgers & Fries would actually be a great name for some joint
operation/meeting/etc.

~~~
Apocryphon
Murders and Spies, I think is the parody

------
desdiv
Googling "NGA" gets me the following, in order:

1\. A Chinese gaming forum

2\. The spy agency's official Twitter mouth piece

3\. The spy agency's own website

4\. National Governors Association

5\. Spy agency's Wikipedia article

That's some fine reverse-SEO work right there.

~~~
seanlinmt
If you didn't know the agency exists, how would anyone know what to Google
for?

~~~
thaumasiotes
Maybe by noticing their official Twitter account.

I mean, if you were trying to hide, that seems like an obvious thing to cut
out.

------
bhaumik
"The NGA is to pictures what the NSA is to voices. Its principal function is
to analyze the billions of images and miles of video captured by drones in the
Middle East and spy satellites circling the globe. But because it has largely
kept its ultra-high-resolution cameras pointed away from the United States,
according to a variety of studies, the agency has never been involved in
domestic spy scandals like its two far more famous siblings, the CIA and the
NSA."

The rest is political fluff.

------
aluminussoma
(editing comment since it is inaccurate)

For those interested, the original Youtube interaction is in the link posted
in the child comment.

[2]: [http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2009/05/in-which-
the...](http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2009/05/in-which-the-
president-discovers-an-american-intelligence-agency-at-five-guys-018755)

~~~
desdiv
I think you're just watching the wrong part of the video. This part[0] matches
the transcript word by word.

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1TxMKaYHYA#t=5m55s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1TxMKaYHYA#t=5m55s)

~~~
aluminussoma
Thank you! I will edit my comment accordingly. I listened to the video and it
was driving me mad that I couldn't find that part.

That was the timestamp in the Politico post, but I missed the conversation.

I guess that Five Guys is popular with the NGA.

------
sabalaba
"Few know exist" but publicly recruit at most Universities in the U.S.

------
martinald
"one million terabytes per day" from two drones. The private sector should get
their hands on This RF technology.

Edit: this was a joke. I imagine that is getting close to the Shannon limit
with available RF spectrum.

~~~
ishi
Even if it is possible to generate so much data, where would you store it? You
would need to install 333 units of VNX5800 per day (each one stores 3PB):
[https://store.emc.com/en-us/Solve-For/STORAGE-
PRODUCTS/VNX58...](https://store.emc.com/en-us/Solve-For/STORAGE-
PRODUCTS/VNX5800/p/VNX-VNX5800-storage-platform)

------
azinman2
Note that the UK had had CCTV for years now, which is a lower tech version of
the same thing. It's not all that hypothetical, and we can at least look to it
for consequences.

------
briandear
Is this philosophically any different than London converting nearly every
square meter with cameras? The technology is better but essentially it's an
air camera system.

------
fersc
If the US didn't hold this position, someone else would. Who would you rather
be in control.

~~~
StavrosK
Someone else, definitely.

~~~
echo_nevada
and then that someone else would be just as bad. No right answer.

~~~
StavrosK
I'd rather have the power spread out, than have it all in one country.

------
brilliantcode
Read the article and it made me think about just how long the US hegemony will
last, it's array of tools deployed against the rest of humanity is vast:

\- It blackmails the rest of the globe with the biggest nuclear deterrence
across land, sea, air and probably space.

\- It ensures trading routes remain open by muscling American naval and air
superiority. Not to benefit others or play fair, it's there to benefit
American interests.

\- It actively undermines and spies under 3 letter acronyms, including it's
own citizens and allies to benefit American corporarchy [1]

\- It consistently outspends the rest of the world combined on it's military
upkeep which guarantees it's #1 postion.

Just how long on earth will such superficially-democratic superpower maintain
it's hegemony? It's like holding everyone hostage and telling them to trade
with each other by selling their own clothing or body with the US taking a cut
on every transaction.

This is fucked.

[1]:
[http://amslang.enacademic.com/2064/corporarchy](http://amslang.enacademic.com/2064/corporarchy)

~~~
stonogo
Your invective borders on hysterical and does not encourage anyone to believe
that engaging with you on this topic will be productive.

If you don't like downvotes, feel free to post this to a web forum that
doesn't implement them.

~~~
brilliantcode
The value I got from reading your comment was nil. If you have nothing to add
to the discussion, why do you contradict yourself by replying?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Except they aren't facts, certainly not as presented.

Consider, you state: _" blackmails the rest of the globe with nuclear
deterrence"_

Blackmail is the threat to expose something the victim doesn't want to see
exposed, in exchange for some price or service. Nuclear deterrence, is just
that, deterrence. Meaning to mitigate (or deter) an adversary from attacking.

 _" it ensures trading routes remain open"_ \-- all nations with navies
protect legitimate trade from pirates, there are ships from at least a half
dozen navies protecting cargo from Somali pirates for example.

 _The US uses its intelligence agencies to undermine the constitution in the
service of corporate interests_ [paraphrased, if you don't agree feel free to
correct my interpreatation] -- The US certainly doesn't do this as a matter of
policy, if you know of a different policy it would help your case to actually
include it as a citation.

 _" it outspends the rest of the world on defense"_ \-- In terms of real
dollars or in terms of percentage of GDP? The last time I checked as a
percentage of GDP, Israel outspent everyone else but I haven't looked in a
while. There is also an economic size effect here, the US spends more (in real
dollars) than any other country on social programs as well (for example). You
probably want to stick to per capita numbers though if you're doing nation-
state comparisons.

There are lots of things you can say about the US that are both facts, and
make the country look bad, but the choices you made aren't facts so they have
a hard time persuading the reader of your 'hegemony' thesis.

~~~
brilliantcode
So who bombed Hiroshima?

which oil rich part of the world do you think they were raining bombs from
aircraft carriers?

Who spies on US allies and their corporations to benefit American ones?

Who spends more than the US on the military?

