
C.S. Lewis' Greatest Fiction: Convincing Kids That They'd Like Turkish Delight - pepys
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/cs-lewis-greatest-fiction-convincing-american-kids-that-they-would-like-turkish-delight
======
coldtea
> _Until I first tried real Turkish Delight in my 20s, I had always imagined
> it as a cross between crisp toffee and halvah–flaky and melting in the
> mouth. Here 's what it really is: a starch and sugar gel often containing
> fruit or nuts and flavored with rosewater, citrus, resin, or mint. The
> texture is gummy and sticky, some of the flavors are unfamiliar to American
> palates, and the whole thing is very, very sweet. (In addition to the sugar
> in the mixture, it's often dusted with icing sugar to keep the pieces from
> sticking together.) While some Turkish Delight newbies may find they enjoy
> it, it's not likely to be the first thing we imagine when we picture an
> irresistible candy treat._

In an era when (white and co) americans devour all kinds of ethnic cuisines,
including raw sushi, all kinds of indian, thai, etc. I find this article
bordering on the absurd.

Unless you're health conscious and don't like sugar, there's not much for an
American to dislike about turkish delights -- sugary, gelatinous etc. Kind of
the missing link between gummy bears, jelly and marshmallows.

They've eaten far more bizzaro foods.

~~~
baddox
> In an era when (white and co) americans devour all kinds of ethnic cuisines

I suspect this is the case in big cities, I don't know how broadly it holds in
America. I've been in San Francisco for 4 years, so I've tried or at least
been made aware of tons of ethnic cuisine, but before that I had never tried
sushi and had never even seen an Indian or Thai restaurant. Perhaps the rural
Midwest is the last place these things spread to. All we really had were tons
of Chinese and Mexican restaurants and a smattering of French, Italian, and
Japanese places, all undoubtedly as unauthentic as they come.

~~~
coldtea
I guess it depends -- I think you can find at least one good chinese,
vietnamese etc place in most major cities, including e.g. Memphis, Flagstaff,
Kansas City, the quad cities etc. At least I had some in all of these.

But if we're talking about rural midwest away from big cities, then you'll
probably have to drive a few hours to get there.

And of course even in the big midwest cities, while a few good place will
exist, they wont be as popular as in NY, or SF.

~~~
baddox
That sounds right. I definitely knew people growing up who would travel a
couple of hours to "big" cities and visit such restaurants, but even then,
it's a fairly special occasion, and not what I would consider a part of their
regular diet. Contrast that with myself and my friends and colleagues in San
Francisco, where Japanese/Indian/Thai/Vietnamese/etc. are regular candidates
for everyday meals.

------
SwellJoe
Hmm...I never thought it was strange. Turkish Delight is delicious. I pick
some up whenever I find myself in a Mediterranean grocery. I'm not fond of
every flavor, especially the very sweet ones, but the fruit and nut options
are delightful, to me. I find it interesting that it's considered a major
disappointment by a lot of folks. I mean, I think every friend I've ever had
that's tried it, after my raving about it, has been somewhat less enthused
about it than I am, but I don't think anyone has ever said it was repulsive.

------
kej
This is kind of a weird criticism since there's so much variety in Turkish
Delight. It would be like saying "cereal is too sweet" or "snack bars have
unfamiliar flavors", when both of those things, like Turkish Delight, can be
made with all sorts of different flavors.

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fatihpense
Thank you for posting this. It is a relief to see something with good vibes
that contains Turkey in it. Reading about Turkey in world news and comments is
depressing. Believe me, Turkish people think more about lokum and food than
politics.

Hacı Bekir company is mentioned in the article. Another interesting point is
that it is the oldest operating company in Turkey founded in 1777:

[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Ali_Muhi...](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Ali_Muhiddin_Hac%C4%B1_Bekir_\(1777\).jpg)

~~~
irremediable
I've never been lucky enough to visit Turkey, though I have some hope of
attending a conference in Istanbul next year.

I _have_ gotten to stay with two separate Turkish AirBnB hosts here in the UK
-- and both times were amazing. I'm sure it's not right to generalise from
this small number of examples, but Turkish hospitality is clearly a _big_
deal. Even just visiting Turkish friends in their respective homes, there
seems to be this feeling of great pride in hosting a guest.

I hope it's something that English culture can learn from.

Edit: hope I'm not coming over as patronising here. Just thought I'd share a
more positive view.

~~~
fatihpense
Thank you. I would love to host you, too! If you decide to come to Istanbul,
just contact me.

~~~
irremediable
Thanks for your generous offer! If I ever get the chance, I'll remember this.

I'd make a similar offer for London, but I don't actually have a spare room,
so it would _not_ be very comfortable.

------
jff
I grew up on "turkish delight" in Washington state, home of
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Orchards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Orchards)
which makes "Aplets and Cotlets", Turkish Delight flavored with apples and
apricots. (It's incredible)

~~~
jasonmp85
As much as I like those, it is a veritable sin they won the "official state
candy" over Almond Roca.

~~~
jff
You can get Almond Roca everywhere but Aplets and Cotlets are a pretty WA-
specific thing, I've never seen them outside of the state.

Those and the Idaho Spud are my #1 treats when I'm back home.

------
nwatson
A Muslim coworker once told me many believe the Christian apologist CS Lewis
was showing an anti-Muslim bias in using Turkish Delight as the temptation ...
supposedly it is a warning against the enticements of a non-Christian world
view. Does anyone have more info on this angle?

~~~
russnewcomer
It's almost assuredly a splitting of hairs, but having read a decent amount of
Lewis, and knowing a bit about the times and places he lived in, I think Lewis
would admit to having a conscious bias against Islam, but not a conscious one
against Muslims. (A bias against the belief system, not against the people
that practice it)

His use of Turkish Delight is, I have heard, thought of as a personal thing,
that Lewis as a young boy would have been mightily tempted by Turkish Delight.

Knowing also the yelling that goes back and forth between Christians and
Muslims about bits and bobs in the other's corpus of literature and culture,
I'd imagine that it is as much planned anti-Muslim bias as unintentional.

------
encoderer
Slightly offtopic but I had the fortune to visit Istanbul in October and it
was by far the highlight of our European holiday.

The culture is fantastic. Turkish breakfast is an amazing thing. Fresh simit
pastries are insanely good. I love the hamam, the bazaar, and even turkish
delight.

If Istanbul isn't on your list, it should be!

~~~
anon4
> Istanbul

Constantinople⁎

------
jinushaun
I'm Asian American and grew up eating and enjoying a ton of weird shit
including rotten fish, pork blood, durian, etc, but even I encountered the
same feeling of disappointment after tasting my first Turkish delight. Like
the OP, I had imagined this amazing treat in my head after reading those books
and seeing those movies/cartoons as a child. It's definitely an acquired taste
that I eventually learned to like after finally finding a flavor I enjoyed
(pistachio). Most of them taste like powdery gummy perfume.

You can't simply blame "uncultured Whities". An analogous "weird" flavor in
the West is licorice. I just don't get it.

~~~
jwhitlark
One of the Turkish "national" drinks is Rakı, a licorice flavored alcohol.
Just thought you might find it amusing.

------
rustynails
An offbeat topic to challenge my mind.

My first experience with Turkish delight was a commercial product in a gold
foil wrapper and a purple label (I don't know if it was fry's or not - it was
in similar wrapping to the old kitkat - 1/2 paper, 1/2 foil). It was covered
in chocolate with a centre that was chewy like a slightly softened beef jerky.
It had a fragrant flavour that reminded me of perfume, but it was a resounding
yuk.

In later years, I came across a gelatinous pink treat covered in a white
powder - the texture was about as squishy as jelly. There was a more subtle
taste and it was delicious.

I never remember associating Turkish delight with Narnia. But, I remember
associating gold foil wrappers with willy wonka.

~~~
coldtea
If the first was "covered in chocolate" it was decidedly not a turkish
delight, but some mass market abomination of such.

The second sounds much closer to actual turkish delights. (Which are not just
turkish, but all over the arab world + balkans, greece etc. Some of the best
are said to be made in the middle east).

~~~
emmelaich
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry%27s_Turkish_Delight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry%27s_Turkish_Delight)

An abomination it maybe, but it's still delicious. We get it branded by
Cadbury in Australia.

The real thing is not hard to get in major cities.

~~~
coldtea
Yeah, the "Fry's" \+ packaging kind of gives the name away that it's not an
actual turkish delight.

~~~
emmelaich
But the filling is pretty genuine tasting.

Not rose water or other traditional flavour but then there's really not much
to Turkish delight.

Gelatine and sugar mostly.

------
maus42
I have never tasted Turkish Delight, but it _sounds_ like a unimaginably sweet
exotic masterpiece of confectionery.

I mean, I always imagined that it would be something a sultan in his majestic
palace would order, and it would taste about the same as the illustrations of
some wondrous palace in Istanbul by the illustrations in the book (by Pauline
Baynes) looked like.

~~~
Balgair
Think Dots
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dots_%28candy%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dots_%28candy%29))
or a more pliable Jujubee
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube_%28confectionery%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube_%28confectionery%29))

~~~
djur
My comparison has always been to Aplets and Cotlets.

~~~
klodolph
Aplets and Cotlets are Turkish Delight.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Orchards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Orchards)

------
AndrewKemendo
I know when I read it (when I was 7 or 8), I envisioned it as a candied turkey
- kind of like the crunchy sweet shell on a honey baked ham. Very
disappointing in that context.

~~~
crikli
Along similar lines I always imagined a middle eastern variation on General
Tso's chicken. Candy never entered my mind, I always assumed it was an entrée
of some type.

------
OneOneOneOne
Maybe I read more into it, but I thought enchantment was also involved?

(My imagining was of some light chocolate treat... the kind that melts in your
mouth and is almost impossible to overeat.)

~~~
tlrobinson
Indeed:

 _" Probably the Queen knew quite well what he was thinking; for she knew,
though Edmund did not, that this was enchanted Turkish Delight and that anyone
who had once tasted it would want more and more of it, and would even, if they
were allowed, go on eating it till they killed themselves."_

[http://www.shmoop.com/lion-witch-wardrobe/supernatural-
quote...](http://www.shmoop.com/lion-witch-wardrobe/supernatural-quotes.html)

The article actually points that out too, but glosses over it: _" (To be fair,
it was enchanted. But still, Edmund. Still.)"_

Seems like an important point though. Yes, Edmund liked turkish delight enough
to ask for it in the first place, but once he had the Queen's Turkish Delight
he was more hopeless than a heroin addict desperate for their next fix.

As an aside, I can't believe we're debating Turkish Delight and "The Lion, the
Witch, and the Wardrobe" on Hacker News.

~~~
anon4
Kind of like saying it's awful how people paint Hitler and Nazism in general
in such a dehumanizing evil light, when they rebuilt a war-torn Germany into a
well-oiled prosperous country (To be fair, they genocided some minorities¹.
But still, people. Still.)

¹ - Assuming that the holocaust happened. It is my understanding that a lot of
people deny that any ethnic minorities were killed by the Nazi regime and that
the entire thing was fabricated, but the overwhelming opinion is that a number
of people perished in the camps and a not insignificant amount of the
survivors were severely maltreated.

------
fisk
I'm falling for a bit of forum bikeshedding here of commenting on something
very important :) but...it's one thing to say "I imagined it was like this,
but it was like that. And here's what my friends imagined" and another to
start the thing like "man, c.s.l. sure tricked everyone with his weird, weird
candy!"

I can't remember whether I tried to imagine it or allowed it to be intriguing-
but-unknown in my mind.

------
jon-wood
The time of publishing may have been a factor - in 1950 Britain was still
recovering from the second world war, and rationing was still in force, so
there would have been nowhere near the abundance of sweet foods available that
there are now. In that context even some Turkish delight could be an exciting
treat.

~~~
scott_karana
Yes, that's exactly what the article says. >:/

------
tlrobinson
Well now I'm hungry for some. Anyone have a good source for Turkish Delight?
(online, or in SF)

~~~
khiddy
"Aplets & Cotlets" are basically Turkish Delight, manufactured in the USA.

[http://www.libertyorchards.com/](http://www.libertyorchards.com/)

~~~
clock_tower
There are also some varieties available on Amazon, and elsewhere online.

A lot of good Turkish Delight in the US (including Aplets & Cotlets) is made
by Armenians, who aren't in any hurry to credit the Turks for it. They
typically call the confection by its Turkish name, "lokum" \-- which roughly
means "delight."

------
vectorjohn
I actually love turkish delight.

It's funny though, it's true I heard of it from the Chronicles of Narnia. It
sounded so good for some reason. I mean, if that kid would throw his family
under the bus for some, I want to try it!

------
BMorearty
Turkish Delight tastes like deodorant.

~~~
griffinmb
I loved them, so I bought my family boxes of them last Christmas. They
complained that the turkish delight tasted like flowers/perfume -- now that's
all I can taste, and I don't get it often anymore.

~~~
to3m
I tried it as a child and it tasted like how I imagine pot pourri would taste.
Really not my thing.

If you want a sweet Middle Eastern food, I'd definitely suggest baklava. The
worst that'll happen there is a bit of coconut. (Or... a swift and painful
death, if you're allergic to nuts.)

------
alasdair_
Turkish Delight is commonly sold in the UK covered in chocolate instead of
sugar. You can buy it at just about any place you can buy a snickers.

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gotchange
If you want to try Middle Eastern sweets, check Kunafa or Baklava instead
because Turkish Delights (Lokum) are really for kids not adults and they're
served along something like Dragée in special occasions and mainly to kids
too.

[0]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag%C3%A9e](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag%C3%A9e)

------
squigs25
Good fresh home made turkish delight is actually awesome. If you ever come
across it, try it.

The pre-packaged stuff is mostly too sweet and not that good.

------
Animats
Product placement, the early years.

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ctulek
Well, in Turkey, Turkish Delight is not as popular as people may think.
Probably, tourists eat more Turkish Delight than Turkish people... I eat more
of this sweet here in US then back in Turkey. Looks like another article that
just enjoys stereotyping.

------
kylehotchkiss
the first time i flew turkish airlines, they handed out turkish delights and I
tried one for the very first time. It was magical. Very magical.

I tried to find some more in istanbul airport which were not as magical but
I'll buy more one day.

------
Steko
Does anyone really remember what kid-them thought of when they read these
passages about Turkish delight a decade plus earlier? I certainly don't and I
read the Narnia books at least twice.

~~~
kbutler
Yes - and the adult that claim her childhood self wanted decadently dark
chocolate for the endorphin rush? Unlikely.

------
gm3dmo
The Young Ones nailed it with:

Witch: Oh, would you two shut up! Would you like some Turkish Delight, my
child? Vyvyan: Not particularly. You got any kebabs?

I think the episode is "Flood".

------
gaius
Fun fact: in Turkey they just call it "delight".

------
umanwizard
What? I'm American and I think lokum is delicious. This guy really wrote a
whole article about how he doesn't like a particular type of candy?

~~~
ksenzee
The author is a she, and the article is really about childhood fantasy,
imagination and disappointment, via the lens of how a bunch of American kids
imagined the unknown "Turkish Delight."

(Also, the only lokum I ever had tasted like gummy rosewater with nuts. Ew.)

------
andrewchambers
I am from New Zealand and I love Turkish delight.

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tjr
Never thought about it much, but reading the book, I imagined it being some
concoction based on Turkish apricots.

------
viach
Lokum is for the tourists. Baklava is the real thing - delicious and
unhealthy.

------
purpleidea
Canadian kids too!

------
timv
From the article

> The English name, Turkish Delight, is no misnomer

Of course it's a misnomer - there is nothing delightful about Turkish Delight.

