

Letter to Steve Jobs - blahpro
http://probablyinteractive.com/2010/4/11/letter-to-steve-jobs.html

======
gxs
While I appreciate his letter, I think he needs to realize that quality of
apps is an incidental reason.

As John Gruber stated, the real reason behind the band is to prevent someone
from establishing cross platform development tools that will trivialize the
choice between getting an iphone and another phone/OS.

~~~
barrkel
It's all well and good to say such and such is the reason, but that's not what
the license actually says.

What's to stop a tool developer producing an Objective C library and compiler
that can target both iPhone and Android? The original source would still be in
Objective C. If it was developed specifically for the iPhone, and only later
for Android, it wouldn't be a compatibility layer - only the Android port
would count as the compatibility layer, with the iPhone original being the
native one.

~~~
biafra
If it comes to that, Apple will ban it's use. No biggie. As long as Apple
thinks they have no competition to fear they can limit developers as they
wish.

So let's all hope Android (or any other mobile platform) is very successful.
Yes, you iPhone-Developers, too should wish for Androids success!

~~~
MWinther
I don't think Apple would, or even could ban anything of the sort. I think
they want people to develop for iPhone first, and if you want to automatically
convert that code to Android and get the cross-platform inferior experience
there, then so be it.

~~~
catch23
I agree with this as well... I'm sure Apple wants more apps for the Mac, and
if someone were to create a 3D modeling tool targeted for iPhone apps that
could produce cross platform Android apps, they'd welcome it into their Mac
family.

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bbuffone
Disclaimer -- I am not an iPhone developer, why? Two reasons: 1.) I don't own
a Mac and 2.) I don't know objective-c.

Even though I can't build iPhone applications, to me this ban makes sense for
the following reasons:

1.) Limits the total number of applications. Apple knows that the "100,000+
apps" is just marketing. How many unit conversion applications do you need or
does Apple want clogging up their approval process.

2.) Reduces the velocity of the application submissions. Having a more
controlled ecosystem means that everything isn't done at once. This is core to
Apples strategy. Roll things out in phases; build features that people want
over time. Cut&Paste, Multi-tasking...

3.) Forces people develop iPhone applications on Mac hardware.

4.) The more layers between you and the developers building the applications
increases compatibility issues, which are out of your control.

5.) The more layers between you and the developers building the applications
decreases the speed at which applications can take advantage of new features.
Apple releases a new api now any developer using a 3rd party framework needs
to wait for that framework to support the new API. This impacts the
significance of the new feature.

~~~
rimantas
#5 makes a lot of sense and is often overlooked. The argument often is that it
is not the tools that determine the quality, of the app, but let's see: Adobe
CS5 Flash2iPhone is developed without iPhone OS 4 in sight. The main target
users for it are those who are not familiar with iPhone OS and frameworks and
would enjoy just pushing a button and letting the tool to do the rest. The
timing is such, that a flood of apps developed this way would arrive just in
time iPhone OS 4 comes out. End user does not know and does not care which
tools the App was developed in. No surprise this does not look pretty in
Apple's eyes. I and cannot imagine Flash2iPhone style of app producing
anything about mediocre. If it targets Android too — even more so. This way
all you can get is unisex, unisize sportswear. Apple wants tailor suits and
designer dresses.

~~~
Tichy
What if my app doesn't need all the latest features? I don't see how this
argument makes sense. After all, competing SDKs don't force their users to
stick to them. If somebody has already written a couple of Flash apps for
iPhone, but now wants to program a 3d shooter, nobody is stopping him from
switching to Objective-C.

~~~
pohl
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

~~~
Tichy
I don't understand the logical step here, I am afraid?

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jsz0
This is a good example of approaching the subject like a non-idealogue that
people can take seriously. The Salem remark was probably a bit much but at
least it's near the end. Ending with a jab is always very tempting.

~~~
duncanj
So, should Steve Jobs respond, "Well, I didn't expect the Spanish
Inquisition..."? I think the author ruined his letter at that point.

------
hoggle
In general it is transition time in business world. I doubt that future
ventures will be able to “successfully” act in a similar way.

The only reason Apple is welcomed/accepted to do so by many (developers _and_
users) is the excellence in their execution. Apple is not an “open” company -
it never has been.

 _Especially_ as a developer one should have understood from the beginning
that using their tools might possibly be somewhat of a Faustian bargain.

Sometimes I myself feel quite guilty for having chosen this path (trying to
become an iPhone/iPad indie) but then I remember myself that the benevolence
of this “dictator” is not really targeted at me as a developer but the users.

I admire that approach and that is why I am not sure if users will really
benefit from these particular kind of policies/politics. I was planning to
partially use iPhone WAX not only because I really like Lua (and it’s highly
embeddable scripting capabilities) but because of productivity reasons as a
one-man team. In spite of introducing additional layers of abstraction I think
it wouldn’t have significantly impacted performance (Lua is _fast_ ).

I never cared about Flash nor any Adobe tools though and I am still among the
ones who don’t care that much if they have to use C/ObjC because I like to use
that set of technology but I see myself for the first time to become more than
a little wary.

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st3fan
I doubt that section 3.1.1 means that you can't embed Lua anymore. People have
been doing this for a long time, specially in games, and Apple has never seen
that as a problem.

This is all about using C# and Flash to create complete apps.

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allertonm
I've seen it stated a few times that "EA uses Lua on the iPhone" - but my
googling hasn't revealed any evidence to support this. Does anyone have a cite
for this?

------
hackermom
I think the extension of the ban can result in a pretty big deal. I think the
bigger issue is that now, Lua itself seems to be entirely banned for use in
any app for the iPhone OS product family, even if the app itself is written in
Obj/C/++ and just using the Lua engine for internal stuff - a perfect example
would be Lua's popular use for "scripting" NPC actions and game events in f.e.
World of Warcraft and many, many other online games; World of Warcraft is not
written in Lua, it's written in C/++, but uses Lua as a component for
"internal" stuff. By this new decision, all apps building on similar
functionality would be rejected.

I still maintain my stance regarding the main culprit in this debate, being
that Flash should be set fire to and urinated on for the shitty product it is,
but I definitely feel that the collateral Apple is causing here is a
potentially much larger problem than the Flash problem they solved by the ban.

------
grumpyfart
A letter to "a letter to Steve Jobs" letters

Yeah new policy sucks, Steve won't change it even if you send thousand of
letters, sometime he might bother to answer, but it'll be the same thing.

Although if he answers, that's great, because then you can publish it again
and HN can be flooded with more "letters to Steve" and "Apple stole my teddy
bear" stories.

~~~
halostatue
I have written a letter about specific techniques that I suspect are covered
under the ban that should not be. I don't intend to publish either it, or if I
get a response, the response. Frankly, one shouldn't be publishing these notes
without permission from Steve Jobs; this is no different than publishing other
email.

I'm hopeful that my letter causes change, but I haven't asked for an outright
removal of the ban, but a clarification on these techniques.

------
SwellJoe
Odds that Steve Jobs will read or care one whit about this letter: 0% (with a
margin of error of ±0%)

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benologist
This is probably the only open letter that'll get a reply...

... saying you and your apps are banned.

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mjnaus
For crying out loud people... The sun's still shining, the beer's still cold,
in some parts of the world people are still dying due to lack of clean
drinking water, to go short... in the big scheme of things; Apple's recent
decision DOES NOT MEAN A DAMN THING. Get some perspective, perhaps cry like a
baby for 30 minutes or so and get on with your life... You'll be OK!

------
khangtoh
SERIOUSLY people, stop all the freaking letter to steve jobs post.. It's
really overdone and doesn't get you much other than this response, sorry I
just had to, go ahead and down vote me.

~~~
bartl
It's quite ironic that, in the week after the release of the iPad, this here
is the only subject with a buzz among computer geeks on the internet.

