Ask HN: Does anyone else hate startups and their culture? - sayelt
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Mz
I think HN was a lot healthier when YC was new and young and their ethos was
they a give a few bucks to two or three young guys who shoot for _ramen
profitable._ And that succeeded and now they have all kinds of dough and are
trying to find and fund The Next Unicorn.

Kind of like how HGTV started as a low budget thing aimed at DIYers and turned
into _Lifestyles of the Rich and Shameless_ after it got successful enough.

I don't know how or even if "startup culture" can be returned to its roots,
but I think that's the problem right there. Now YC imagines it shall save the
world or some crap and is running a Basic Income experiment and has, imo, lost
its way.

I don't hate startups, but I hate what has become of the culture recently. It
wasn't always like this.

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mtmail
Given how often "Fuck You Startup World" ([https://medium.com/@shemag8/fuck-
you-startup-world-ab6cc72fa...](https://medium.com/@shemag8/fuck-you-startup-
world-ab6cc72fad0e),
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12682944](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12682944))
got submitted lately there are many. The HN search doesn't show all, there
were at least 30-40 submissions.

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ericzawo
With the companies I've experienced, I try very hard to hate the game, not the
player. With that said, there's only so many buzzwords, tee shirts under
sportcoats, sizing-me-up-and-letting-me-know meetings, assumptions that I'll
work for free, emails and conference call gcal invites on federal holidays
(like Christmas Day), and more that I can take. Primarily, the peacocking and
existential fear to fit in has crippled nearly all the would-be CEOs of actual
companies (that turn a profit, even of the ramen variety). Instead, the one
round of seed capital (whether its with the suits over in California or
daddy's golf friends) tends to get to their head.

I've often thought of becoming my own boss out of spite, but I'm a little too
inexperienced and don't quite have my own idea fleshed out to put my whole
life on hold just yet. I like the show Silicon Valley, but they tend to
(obviously) over-exaggerate the stereotype of start-up types. There's a very
real undercurrent of the schoolyard need to "fit in" that weaves through most
startup-y people, and the closer I get to it all, the funnier it is.

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AnimalMuppet
As mtmail said, there seem to be a lot of people that hate them. But then
again, there's lots of people who hate BigCorp and its culture. There's lots
of people who hate government IT and its culture.

I've been a software person for a long time, and I've learned that there's no
perfect environment. Some are less toxic than others, though. And which ones
are "less toxic" isn't necessarily a function of whether it's a startup
(though there may be a higher fraction of people who don't know how to manage
- or even how to be a grownup - in the start up world).

If you're in a reasonably sane and healthy environment, don't casually leave
it. A better deal may be much harder to find than you think.

~~~
ev_rolfe
While its definitely true that corporate companies and startup-ey companies
each have their pros and cons, what really gets me is the holier-than-thou
attitude that seems to be at the core of modern startup culture.

I mean how often do you hear somebody saying that you should "quit their
startup job to come work in the corporate world"? On HN for example, there is
a pervasive view that the ultimate nirvana for anyone's life is to do your own
startup or "side-project".

That said I'm not saying you shouldn't do a startup if you want to or that
they are even a bad thing. Larger organisations, especially in the IT
industry, have definitely benefited from some of the practices made popular by
startups. Just don't try and tell me that working in a startup will be in any
way more enjoyable than working for a corporation. It will be for some people,
but I'd argue not most people and certainly not all.

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sayelt
Startups are the reason I can't have a stable/steady job because they all
require me to work 15 hours a day and also work on weekends, if I don't appeal
enough to the get-rich-quick boss, I'm fired.

Seriously, I hate startups and their culture.

~~~
cauterized
There ARE jobs in companies that aren't startups.

~~~
sayelt
No, there isn't.

~~~
sotojuan
Yes there are and they might just be the majority of the industry.

Even in start ups not all jobs are that bad... maybe in California but here in
NYC I've had a better experience when looking.

~~~
sayelt
First off, I don't live in the US. Secondly, I'm not anti-startup—pro-bigcorp,
both are awful and good in many ways.

My problem with startups is that everyone expects everyone else to be a robot
nowadays, so many principles, toxic environments, too much bullshit and I've
got enough of it.

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p333347
I have never been involved with one, directly or indirectly, so I can't
comment on the culture. I am planning to start one though.

However, as a strict outsider looking at things, I find it amusing that every
startup claims to disrupt something or the other, many times things that have
already been claimed to be disrupted by others, and there is hardly anything
to separate one from its competitors in terms of technology. I find it no
different than every bigco claiming they are leader in something or the other
(which could be arguably true in some cases) but often simply recreating the
same technology the competitors have for any number of reasons. In both cases
there is tremendous amount of cliche in the way they talk or present their
ideas while overselling themselves, which sometimes amuses and sometimes
annoys.

