
Ask HN: Why does web programming pay more than embedded and game programming? - aprdm
Hello HN, Why does web programming pay more than Embedded and Gaming programming? It seems easier since it has no heavy math, no need to know about electronics, no need to know much about the underneath hardware, computer architecture concerns, signal processing and etc.<p>I would imagine that the embedded system&#x2F;game programming person would be paid a lot more than a typical CRUD ruby shop. But I am very wrong.<p>Also there seems to be 100 web programmers for each kernel or hardware engineer. I don&#x27;t see the supply&#x2F;demand effect on this market.
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kjksf
Because salary is rarely about how difficult a job is.

In this particular case, there are 2 factors at play:

1\. supply of programmers vs. demand for programmers

2\. rich companies can pay more than poor companies

The second explains why a web programmer at Facebook or Google or Twitter
makes more than almost any kind of programmer at almost any other company.

Embedded programming, on average, doesn't pay well because embedded
programmers usually work for hardware companies that have much lower margins
and culturally don't necessarily value programmers as much as hardware people.

Or to put it another way: there are much more rich pure software web companies
than hardware-software companies that typically employ embedded programmers.

However, I wouldn't generalize it to all web programmers. Web programming is a
dominant in our industry so while there are plenty of rich companies that
employ web programmers, there are even more not-so-rich companies that also
employ web programmers so maybe you have selection bias (i.e. you only look at
high salaries for web programmers (which exist) while ignoring even bigger
number of low salaries for web programmers).

Supply vs. demand explains relatively low wages for game programmers. Almost
all programmers are also gamers and many glamorize game development, seeing it
as more attractive than other kinds of programming which makes it possible for
game companies to hire people for less than other kinds of software companies.

To re-iterate: it has nothing to do with how hard a job is. To understand
business, look at market forces.

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nanoscopic
The easiest way to make money is to find a business need and provide a
solution. Games, first of all, are not a business need. They are
entertainment. Except at high scale, entertainment typically does not make a
lot of money.

Embedded development is a specialized field. It does make a lot of money, but
only if one is highly skilled so as to do applicable low level dev. I wouldn't
say it pays lowly; simply that it is hard to get into it truly at all, so many
of those who are "in" embedded dev just say that to make the stuff they do
sound cooler.

Web programming, also, does not necessarily pay more than anything. "Web
Programming" is a very generic term.

It is easy to setup a website that has no dynamic nature, that has poor
layout, and cannot be properly updated by large groups of people under
different permissioning rules. Doing all of those things is no small task.

Web programming, at the level that people tend to get paid well for, can be
very complex when considering the full stack of components and
interdisciplinary skills involved.

Basically, you are comparing very generic job descriptions that don't take
into account the years of experience that are necessary to accomplish things.

There is not a high demand for "kernel and hardware engineers". Why? Because
the few that we have are quite sufficient. Hardware and low level software
engineering is a somewhat working area. In comparison, the higher layers of
software development are horribly incomplete and constantly changing.

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bushido
Answer pertaining to Web Consultants, Web Programmers (freelance and agency)
etc.

Short answer: Higher Perceived Value.

Long Answer: It is easier for most people to understand the value added by web
programmers. Most businesses that hire web programmers/agencies measure the
outcome as either a) new revenue generated or b) savings from more efficient
processes.

There is another possibility that plays out in conjunction with this - i.e.
Marketing. In general I have seen web programmers to be a tad better at
marketing, both personal and professional.

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georgemcbay
In both my own experience and according to indeed.com (though I don't know how
reliable their data is) embedded pays more on average than web development,
nationally.

Game developers do get short changed often relative to how technical and time-
demanding their jobs are, but that is primarily because it is a "glamour"
field that lots of young people want to get into and the industry has evolved
into a churn factory to accommodate them (for a short time).

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ZenoArrow
If I were to take a guess, I'd say the quality of the output is more visible
to those who are paying. Also, there may be a high level of supply generally,
but quality developers are not the easiest to find.

Game programming is a special case in that you have to have a ridiculous level
of programming skill but the mainstream developers are run like sweatshops (by
many accounts), meaning that staff burnout and turnover are both high. It only
works because there's a high number of youthful newbies who's dream job is
making games, therefore giving a high level of supply despite the working
conditions imposed.

Embedded programming also requires a decent level of skill, but it's not seen
as glamourous.

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percept
B2B versus B2C (follow the money).

Games are cheap consumables, and with phones and other consumer devices, for
example, you even have a cottage industry based around ripping devices apart
and itemizing costs down to the pennies, analyzing how much companies are
profiting from each sale, etc. (And I'd guess that commercial devices are more
profitable, but a much smaller hiring market.)

Business customers--for the most part--just sign on the dotted line for
products and services.

There are of course consumer-focused Web companies, but I'd suggest that
venture capital (necessarily) covers salaries for most of these.

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fredophile
Does web programming pay more than embedded or game programming? The salaries
that glassdoor shows for web developers don't seem exceptionally high to me.
What data are you using?

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S4M
I don't know about Embedded, but if you want to make money by doing Game
programming, I strongly suggest to work on your own - and possibly team up
with a graphic designer.

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aprdm
Like an indie dev at apple/google shops? There seems to be way too many, looks
like a lotery for me

