
Naïve Quitting - niyazpk
http://sivers.org/nq
======
jacquesm
If I were the employer I'd say, that's really nice, please make sure you serve
out your two weeks and we'll post the job, she can apply.

Bringing in an outsider for a job on your own initiative can open up your
employer to all kinds of nastiness, for instance, maybe there is someone in
line for promotion that immediately has a case because the job was never
posted.

Really, this will work only very rarely, if you're working for 'bigcorp' x,
I'd highly advise against trying a stunt like this.

You also can't just disclose all kinds of stuff to third parties that are not
under an employment contract. Even a librarian has access to all kinds of
private information. No wonder his boss was a little 'stunned'. What's wrong
with talking it over beforehand instead of presenting your boss with a fait-
accompli ?

I worked for a company as a co-founder/shareholder in the mid 80's and was in
the situation that I too wanted to quit, I talked it over with the owner
('DGA' in dutch, mine was a minority share), suggested that I would talk to a
friend of mine, he said, fine, go ahead.

That's the correct sequence.

Incidentally, my friend _still_ works there today!

~~~
amalcon
"If you work for bigcorp x" being the operative term here. If you work in a
small business, you know the owner personally, and you know this would be
appreciated, knock yourself out. That's a lot of "if's", so the post could've
used a lot more context, but in a certain situation I can see doing this.

~~~
jacquesm
Even in a smaller corporation I'd be very careful. I try to put myself in the
place of the boss there and to have some sysadmin walk up to me and say hey
Jacques, I'm leaving today, here is the guy that I trained while you weren't
looking, he already has all the passwords and would very much like my job, I
can promise you I'd be less than thrilled about it.

There are two things wrong with it, it presumes that it is his right to make
these decisions and presents his boss with an impossible situation, either
accept and you _might_ have continuity, or don't accept and have an immediate
problem.

Master salesmanship to get away with it but not everybody is quite as timid as
his boss was there.

I can't find a better term than blackmail, but that isn't quite it because he
doesn't expect any payout, maybe someone else has a better term for this, but
something really isn't right here.

That decision was simply not his to make.

~~~
amalcon
This is why all of those conditions need to be true. If you _know_ that your
employer will appreciate you doing this, then why not? Of course, it's highly
unlikely that you know this to a reasonable certainty unless you ask.

~~~
danieldon
Exactly, you don't know unless you ask. Don't assume, ask.

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alexandros
Surely some employers may prefer to use the event of an employee quitting to
readjust things / change salary levels / bring in a good candidate they had no
room for? It just seems a bit presumptuous to offer someone your job at your
salary without the employer's prior approval.

~~~
andreyf
I think the most polite thing to do, as an employee, is to say "I'd like to
leave my position within [some time period], let's figure out an exit
strategy".

PS - maybe add "I have a friend who I'm certain is capable of doing this job,
I highly recommend her as a replacement if you need one."

~~~
wan23
I used to be employee #3 at a small startup. When I left, I gave 30 days
notice so that I could help hire and train my replacement. In response, they
told me to go home and refused to pay the 2 weeks pay they owed me.

~~~
mofey
Good thing you left.

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dkersten
I don't get all the articles on HN about quitting.. having recently quit a job
I've worked in for 1 year and 9 months, and never having quit a serious job
before that, all I can say is its not that hard. Give them whatever length of
advance notice as your contract says (I hear its typically 2 weeks in the US?
Where I am, a month is the standard length), tell them in person. Be polite.
Make sure you pass on any information that they may need for someone to take
over your job. Thats it.

Employers should be used to people leaving - and if not, they should get used
to it. It may not be the employers fault you want to leave (or maybe it is?),
but its still not your job to find replacements - thats their HR departments
job. Also, I keep hearing things on HN about people feeling bad for leaving -
don't. The employer doesn't feel bad when they make money off your hard work
without giving you a reward or bonus, they don't feel bad when they downsize
the company to save money. They don't feel bad when they replace you for
someone better/cheaper. (Ok, they might and you might feel bad for leaving,
but its normal and it happens. Loyalty shouldn't get in the way of fulfilling
your career goals or your happiness).

I got stressed over quitting my job, but then I decided _screw it, I'll tell
them this morning_. I IM'ed my boss to ask him when would be a good time for a
chat and then I went to him in person and told him straight out that I want to
leave to work on personal projects and possibly travel for a few months. We
then briefly talked about exactly when I'll be leaving and then we chatted
about about how I found my time working there and my future plans. He then
wished me well and offered to contact him if I ever needed advice or help with
anything. That was it. I worked for the month and then on my last day everyone
went for a few drinks. I'm still in contact with some of my former workmates.

~~~
jacquesm
It depends on so many circumstances whether quitting is a big deal or not that
it is probably not possible to say which without knowing a lot more about a
person. Obligations matter a lot, savings obviously figure in there, the local
economy and the job market.

What's a non-issue for one can cause many sleepless nights for someone else.

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tjmaxal
I've never had an employer offer to find me my next job, why would an employee
offer to find their next employee?

------
alexandros
It's interesting to see the contrast in comments here vs. the comments on
Derek's blog.

~~~
henrikschroder
Sycophants and praise in the comments on the blog itself, rational discussion
elsewhere. It's not _that_ surprising or interesting. :-)

~~~
alexandros
68 comments and not a single one pointing out the obvious flaw with the
article? If that was my blog, I'd be worried.

(Of course my blog is happy to have 3 comments on a post, but that is another
matter entirely)

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JoeAltmaier
This is believable, if you assume this guy has never seen a television,
listened to the radio or read a newspaper for the last 25 years.

~~~
davidu
Many of Derek's posts are a vehicle used to illustrate a point. I thought that
was generally well accepted.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
You mean, made up? Like, a fable? Didn't read like that.

~~~
davidu
Perhaps embellished or selective memory driven. For example, I'm sure he is
aware of how people elsewhere quit, and I'm sure at CDBaby he had someone quit
over his tenure of running it. But by leaving that out, the story is so much
better and the point is made crystal clear.

~~~
sivers
Thanks David. You're right on and said it better than I could. :-)

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enterneo
I want to quit my job to go for MS this fall, but there is a service agreement
binding (2 years) that makes me work for them until Jan 2011, otherwise I need
to pay a huge compensation for the bond breakage.

curious to know, is it only in India that I see such binding agreements, or
are they prevalent worldwide?

UPDATE:

they reason because we invested money to train you, we expect you to serve us
for 1 year after the training.

after a generic training, you need to get trained in any specific technology
(which you don't get to choose). I was forced into mainframe; I have a web app
development background from college, and due to lack of interest in mainframe
and eventually realizing how tantalizing it could be to do something you don't
want to do, I decided to apply for MS, and got decent admissions, and now I am
not able to go.

~~~
loumf
Never heard of anything like that in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me to
hear of someone trying to pull something like this. Is it both ways? Do they
have to pay you if they break the bond?

~~~
enterneo
nope, even if they break the bond and terminate you, you still pay!

~~~
acangiano
Then I have a great business model for Indian entrepreneurs.

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galactus
So, if he has to fire someone does he find him another job first?

~~~
timwiseman
Fire for cause, certainly not. But layoff in a restructuring or downsizing?
Many of the better companies will offer some form of support in finding the
next job in that situation. What form that support comes in and whether it is
really useful or not is another topic, of course.

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mallipeddi
If that's what the employer expects, shouldn't he put in a longer notice
period in the contract and also reciprocate the courtesy while firing
someone's ass off?

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nedwin
This article isn't about the fact that he quit his job or how he went about
it, it's about challenging the norms of society and not just accepting them.

I think it's this naivety that let's many entrepreneurs, young and old, think
that they can tackle established players or entire industries head on and win.
It's this naivety that helps them identify the right way to do something
rather than the established way.

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mkramlich
Social, economic and technological innovation is disproportionately made by
the supposedly naive.

