
German Pirate Party Scores Second State Victory - NonEUCitizen
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/german-pirate-party-election-304058
======
jellicle
For the political hackers: note that these victories are made possible by
Germany's proportional representation system, which guarantees seats in
parliaments to any party which gets more than 5% of the popular vote across
the state/city/whatever. Thus parties with broad but shallow support do get
represented in government.

The electoral systems in the UK-derived nations (geographic districts only,
first past the post) expressly prohibit such broad-but-shallow movements from
ever being represented in government. If the Pirate Party in a U.S. state got
the same percent of the vote, they would end up with precisely zero seats in
the legislature. Even if they got double that percent of the vote, they would
end up with precisely zero seats in the legislature. Triple? Still zero. The
U.S. electoral system is an extremely conservative one, which prevents new
political movements from ever being heard in government. There are better
ones, such as Germany's.

~~~
arethuza
The Scottish Parliament actually has an element of PR, so we do get some
minority parties with seats:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament#2011_result>

It wouldn't surprise me if we have Pirate Party MSPs in a few years.

[NB Scotland is still very much a part of the UK, at least for a couple of
years or so!].

~~~
jellicle
Ah, I didn't know Scotland had MMP. Good for you. I was thinking of the U.S.,
Canada, and UK main parliament.

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axx
You should also keep in mind, that the german pirate party isn't only about
copyright stuff.

They're also "the only" party in germany that represents the interests of web-
centric citizens. While the conservative parties try to regulate the internet
in germany more an more (you know, germany has A LOT of regulations,
everywhere) the pirate party is a good alternative.

I'm really happy about this movement, even if they don't land a huge hit after
a few years, you can see more younger people getting more interest in politics
etc.

~~~
Cass
In addition to the things you mentioned, I'm also quite happy about the
existence of a party containing many young, inexperienced members in the
government. They seem to be reinventing the wheel at least partly out of
ignorance of the way things have always been done in German politics, and
while that does lead to some chaos within the party, in some cases they're
reinventing it for the better.

Even if they don't manage to push through any meaningful changes at all by
themselves, their mere presence seems to be enough to shake up the traditional
parties, and show them that they need to be more open and inclusive towards
the general public, and particularly younger voters.

------
sek
Anti-copyright group ...

The site is called Hollywoodreporter, no surprise.

If anybody ist interested:
[http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,823738,00...](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,823738,00.html)

The core discourse is about civil liberties and resentment with the old
parties.

~~~
mhd
Speaking of reporting, I wonder how long it'll take until the "Pirates board
another x" phrase gets retired…

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philippK
I'm from Saarland (the state where the vote was last night), and i voted for
the pirate party last night.

They are not an anti copyright group. It's true that they want to see
modifications made to overly strict copyright laws and oppose treaties like
ACTA, data retention laws, web censorship laws (all of which have been
proposed in germany in the last years).

Their core demands are: * Improve overly strict copyright laws * Improve
transparency of government (open data, foia , etc) * Improve the educational
system to take advantage of the internet and other "new media" in class. *
Improve citizen participation in government by having public votes on more
issues

They are also about the only party that has some competence when it comes to
computers, the internet, etc

So, as a web-centric citizen, it was easy for me to vote for them.

------
buster
Jesus... and all with a "top 10 pirated movies of all time" picture gallery..
what horrible site is that!?

A pretty good article for the germans among us can be found here:

<http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/texte/anzeigen/36648/>

~~~
eru
Thanks. That's pretty good. By the way, the Neue Zurcher Zeitung often has an
interesting outsider's perspective on events in Germany (e.g.
[http://www.nzz.ch/marktplaetze/uebersicht/kaum_gegenwind_fue...](http://www.nzz.ch/marktplaetze/uebersicht/kaum_gegenwind_fuer_die_deutschen_piraten_1.13030905.html)).

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hef19898
Anti-copyright group... That and the "everything for free party" are the most
common discriptions media and the established parties are trying to pose on
the Pirates right now. That and the misinterpretation that an opposition to an
attemt to simply block child pornographic sites when you try to access them
from germany equals a support of said sites.

They are anew party with some, IMHO interessting fresh approaches. And if we
have a party in the parliaments of one of the biggest economies in Europe
oppossing the most wierd initiatives from the content industry, well that can
only be great!

~~~
mhd
What could probably work out well for them is the opposite of a "fresh
approach". In an interview today, one of the new members of parliament said
that he sees the PP as representing classical liberalism, as opposed to the
FDP's neo-liberalism. That would be something to unite behind, beyond
straight-forward internet themes. But we'll have to see whether it's something
the whole party can agree on.

In its ideal form, that's something good about the German electoral system.
Due to the fact that traditionally most parts need a coalition to form a
government, you can have some kind of "mixin" system, i.e. vote for a party
because it adds something valuable to the whole effort, not because you could
see them govern totally on their own. Especially if the party isn't tied to
one particular big sibling, which more and more seems to be the case now.

~~~
eru
Funny thing is that neo-liberalism actually used to have a different meaning
in Germany. That meaning also had a synonym called Ordoliberalism
(<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordoliberalism>), that didn't change so much
in meaning.

Anyway, the Pirateparty also has a substantial social democratic background,
so calling their stance social liberalism is probably more sensible. (Using
the European meaning of liberalism.)

~~~
mhd
I was basically quoting the terms from the interview. You're right, social
liberalism is probably the more appropriate term.

We do seem to like the word "social" here in Germany, even the "right-wing"
parties like to use it, albeit not in the strictly socialist sense, of course.
No prosperity gospel here. Probably because all the Calvinists ended up
somewhere else…

~~~
eru
Some historians even use the term social-monarchy (as opposed to social-
democracy) to describe the last German Empire.

------
icebraining
_Copyright discussions played little role in the Pirate's successful campaign,
however. The party instead focused on issues of social and political reform._

Has anyone with real political influence (so, not them for now ;) addresses
this issue? I suppose this was relevant before, but with more targeted parties
like the Pirates, I think the faults in our election system seem more
pronounced.

The reality is that a party like this is doomed to either lose votes for not
having a position on anything else besides copyright, privacy and such, or
lose votes by alienating the people who disagree with them on other issues.

~~~
hef19898
Copyright et al. is just the most well-known program point they. AFAIK the
movement started in scandinavia (sweden?) as response to some Pirate Bay
issues I forgot about after all the SOPA, ACTA Megaupload stories. Already
sorry for being to lacy to look it up right now.

~~~
yxhuvud
Actually, it was started a few months before the police raid on the Pirate Bay
raid. Membership exploded at that point though.

------
ghost91
I'm from germany, but I'm not sure if I would elect them.

In last months there were so many chances for them, but they missed every one.

For example they organised demonstrations against ACTA, but I never heard
anything directly from the pirate party.

~~~
LinaLauneBaer
There are several press releases about ACTA on piratenpartei.de:
<http://www.piratenpartei.de/category/pm/>

~~~
phreeza
The point is not to just write a press release, it is to get your platform
noticed. They missed this opportunity with ACTA and also when our president
resigned. Fefe ranted about this in several posts on his blog.

My hunch is they simply lack the political shrewdness required in these
matters at the moment, but that also makes them more appealing to me, they are
not just playing the same old game (yet).

PS: nice nickname :D

~~~
LinaLauneBaer
I do not expect a party to rant like Fefe does. You can't neglect the fact
that the position of the pirate party about ACTA is crystal clear: They don't
want it to become reality. They wrote press releases, they organized
demonstrations and there are ongoing discussions party-wide.

If you think ACTA is a bad idea I see no reason not to vote for the pirate
party - they have done more for the anti-ACTA-movement than any other party.
It could have been more but this does not make them unelectable...

Thank you - I like your nickname as well. .)

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6ren
Is there any particular reason this is happening first in Germany? Just
chance?

Is it because Germany has an electoral system that allows it? [but other
nations also allow it]

Or, that Germany is technically advanced, and so one of the first nations to
have a sufficiently large constituent of web-centric citizens? (echoes of
Martin Luther, opposing the establishment with new communications technology)
[but other nations are advanced]

------
codesuela
Note that by being the most net friendly party, the Pirates are the ones you
should be voting for if you are part of a startup.

