
Coronavirus: 'Murder threats' to telecoms engineers over 5G - doener
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-52395771
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sefrost
I had an idea which is basically this:

Social media companies know which videos/tweets/statuses you’ve looked at. If
it’s known you viewed content which is a conspiracy theory then they could, at
a later date, show you a rebuttal from a trusted source. This could be
targeted based on the specific content you viewed.

I was imagining it as a more modern version of the “right of reply” rules that
broadcast TV in the UK has.

Would something like this be workable?

~~~
MattGaiser
I know a 5G conspiracy theorist who is an electrical engineering graduate,
admittedly from a low ranked school.

I've manually sent him better information. He of all people should be able to
understand it. He doesn't process it and continues to cheer people burning
down towers.

~~~
aantthony
Could you share that information, if you don’t mind. I was trying to figure
out if the radiation is safe but I couldn’t find anything on the effects of
the high frequency signals.

~~~
st3fan
Fun facts: It is not “radiation” and also not high frequency.

~~~
aantthony
From Wikipedia: “In the U.S., Verizon is using 28 GHz and AT&T is using 39
GHz. 5G can use frequencies of up to 300 GHz”[1]. That is high frequency
relative to the frequencies of 4G, and WiFI or Bluetooth which are around 2-4
GHz.[2]

Not sure what definition of radiation you’re using, but yes, electromagnetic
waves are radiation.

[1] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi)

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Nursie
And this is why I'm perfectly at ease with the likes of facebook and youtube
squashing these dickheads.

It's not censorship or a free speech violation, it carries no legal penalties
and they are free to shout elsewhere. Private platforms are under no
obligation to propagate this crap, indeed (as with more traditional media) it
seems to me more of a moral obligation _not_ to allow such webs of lies and
fantasy to propagate.

~~~
colejohnson66
I hate this argument.

What about when the private company is bigger than multiple countries
combined?

This whole “it’s a private company, so it can do what it wants” misses the
point: These companies are so massive that if they kick you off, they can ruin
your life. You may think that’s ok because it’s affecting the “degenerates”,
but what about when it happens to you? There’s hundreds(?) of articles about
how Google kicked people off their platform for no reason.

Look at the (somewhat) recent Markiplier incident where people were banned for
spamming the chat despite Markiplier _telling them_ to spam. It only got
resolved because he was big enough that Google would listen.

Saying it’s ok to censor because it’s legal and it affects the “bad people” is
the same argument that people use to justify police violence: “They wouldn’t
beat up someone if they didn’t have it coming for them.” Because we all know
that bad things only happen to bad people.

Yes, the _First Amendment_ only applies to the government, but _free speech_
as a _concept_ is a thing too, and should be fought for, regardless of who is
negatively affected.

If these people are burning down towers, send them to jail. But a random
nobody who is just spouting conspiracy theories? Ignore them. Conspiracy
theorists will always exist. They always have, and they always will. If you
want to help them, you aren’t helping my pushing them down; You’re just making
their views stronger. Education fixes idiots, not censorship.

~~~
Nursie
I would say that because these companies are so ubiquitous, with such reach,
they have a duty to stop the people spreading the lies that lead to tower
burnings.

It's not true that education fixes idiots, however much you may wish it.
Pushing them down stops more people stumbling on their material. The idea that
free public debate will stamp out bullshit is a bust. It's failed. Debate,
facts and education don't matter for shit against a torrent of nonsense. See
for example the antivax folks.

You are content that society plays whack-a-mole with tower burners while the
people that actually cause the problem spread their lies and usually make a
very nice living fleecing the people they recruit. All enabled by tech
platforms run by private companies that you would constrain from acting for
some bizarre reason.

It's not that it's ok to censor - removing people from youtube is not
censorship. Publishers don't have to publish books they don't want to,
newspapers are not obliged to publish articles by antivaxxers, google have no
duty whatsoever to provide a platform for lies about 5G and coronavirus.

There is no free speech issue here. I am not obliged to let you stand in my
yard and yell, even if it's the best spot in the neighborhood.

~~~
colejohnson66
> There is no free speech issue here. I am not obliged to let you stand in my
> yard and yell, even if it's the best spot in the neighborhood.

You’re _again_ ignoring the size of the space. If you owned all the publicly
available land in a city, and stopped just me from protesting on it, that’s a
free speech violation. When YouTube first started, this wasn’t an issue, but
now it is.

Also, I’ll say it again: _free speech_ and the _First Amendment_ are different
things. I recognized that in my post, but you seem content to blur the line
between the two in the name of censorship.

~~~
Nursie
Not even google own all the space. There are other video sites and if none of
them want you, you can put your propaganda up on your own site.

I'm not American, I'm not really interested in the details of your first
amendment. The difference is between government telling you that you can't
speak or spread ideas and a publishing platform taking a decision not to carry
your pernicious lies.

I'm fine with the latter. It's their commercial choice and it's a benefit to
society in this case.

Are you going to get upset at Penguin and tell them it's censorship when they
don't publish your novel too? Or maybe Barnes and Noble?

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nabla9
I think this is understandable. Modern technology is magic for large fraction
of the population. 5G is just magical word that can contain anything. If you
don't even understand the basics of science and technology, you have to trust
others to decipher it for you. There is no shortage of explainers.

Most people interpret: responsible and correct statements like "there is no
evidence" as "so it could be true".

~~~
MattGaiser
Maybe the elites of old were on to something locking all knowledge in a
tower...

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smabie
"People are stuck at home - whether they want to watch their box set of Peaky
Blinders or somebody's isolated and they want to keep in touch with family."

Maybe I'm missing something, but how does watching a box set of Peeky Blinders
require a telecom network?

~~~
knolax
Well it does require electricity, and I doubt the people who want to burn down
5g towers can tell the difference between electrical towers and telecom
towers.

------
kediz
As long as there are knowledge and cognitive gaps between groups and
demographic, there will be luddite. This brings up an interesting thought; Is
it in the best interest of politicians to keep the divide and gap?

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3fe9a03ccd14ca5
> _”Read the claims carefully and investigate every single one of them because
> there are so many half-truths doing the rounds on social media._

Actually, there’s half truths (and full lies) being told _everywhere_ , from
advertising to politics, and it’s definitely not just limited to social media.

Once people lose trust in institutions it’s hard to get that trust back and
people will look elsewhere.

~~~
krapp
And yet the people who lose trust in institutions tend to trust the
alternatives they find without question.

CNN says the earth is round, obviously it's globalist deepfake propaganda,
because the mainstream media is nothing but fake news.

Reddit says it's flat, well that's probably true because we know what the
"elites" have to say about it, and _they_ can't be trusted...

What, science says it's round? The same _mainstream_ science that only serves
a globalist agenda to reinforce the status quo and prop up big pharma, and
brainwash people into conformity? The same scientific establishment that lies
about gender and race and climate change? Obvious bullshit.

~~~
aantthony
I think most people tend to have an innate need for answers and don’t like
having unknowns. The institutions used to fill that gap, but now it’s back
since the institutions violated that trust. Educated people are still able to
find other means for sense-making such as finding good sources, considering
multiple opinions etc. But for everyone else, it seems they’re left with the
strategy to just trust whatever they see that hasn’t previously lied to them.

------
ck2
There are all kinds of response to this insanity but ignoring distracting
details and not trying to comprehend the worst of society, something I've
noticed over the decades is whatever hoax, whatever conspiracy theory that
pops up, the common denominator to the most destructive responders is poor
education and poor critical thinking skills.

Once a society has lost those fundamentals, it's over. It's also why the movie
"Idiocracy" seems to slowly become reality.

~~~
vezycash
> the common denominator to the most destructive responders is poor education
> and poor critical thinking skills

smart, highly educated people believe dumb stuff too.

[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/mind/smart-
people...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/mind/smart-people-do-
stupid-things-not/)

~~~
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
Well educated and critical thinkers will easily “turn off” their “critical”
thinking when it comes to subjects as politics and religion. Like most of us,
people seek confirmation of their biases in whatever form that takes on.

These groups remind me of the cults of ancient Egypt, which seems to be a part
of history ready to repeat itself.

~~~
vezycash
>seems to be a part of history ready to repeat itself.

Talking about history, this 5g nonsense is a symptom of something else - A
lack of trust in governments in general and certain authorities.

If nothing changes, someone might pull a Hitler and channel the frustrations
of the poor...

This reminds me of a class I took on Communication within organizations.

When official channels of communication cuts off, the unofficial channel of
information (grapevine) takes over.

In such environment, the grapevine will manufacture and spread wild theories,
stories, gossips... And that's what happened here.

~~~
3fe9a03ccd14ca5
> _If nothing changes, someone might pull a Hitler and channel the
> frustrations of the poor..._

This is a much more likely scenario with broad joblessness as the economy
continues to be shut down than it is with the vocal 5G crowd.

There’s always consequences to our actions. Surprised so many people are
whistling past the graveyard with regard to crippling unemployment.

