
Why Can't Everyone Do the 'Asian Squat'? - sergeant3
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/03/can-you-do-the-asian-squat/555716/?single_page=true
======
arunitc
I'm 43 years, Indian and have never had a problem squatting. Was surprised
this is such a tough thing to do for some. I work sitting on a chair for 8-10
hours everyday, but ensure I take a squat break every 1 hour or so. To make it
a habit, I take every opportunity to squat, when I have my green tea, play
with my son, watch TV. It does feel great after squatting for 3-4 minutes. I
also workout in the gym and perform 4-5 sets of squats with 30Kgs.

I read this yesterday - “Every joint in our body has synovial fluid in it.
This is the oil in our body that provides nutrition to the cartilage. Two
things are required to produce that fluid: movement and compression. So if a
joint doesn’t go through its full range—if the hips and knees never go past 90
degrees—the body says ‘I’m not being used’ and starts to degenerate and stops
the production of synovial fluid.”

[https://quartzy.qz.com/1121077/to-solve-problems-caused-
by-s...](https://quartzy.qz.com/1121077/to-solve-problems-caused-by-sitting-
learn-to-squat/)

~~~
hnarn
>if a joint doesn’t go through its full range—if the hips and knees never go
past 90 degrees

You don't need to squat to have your knees go past 90 degrees. This would only
be an issue for people that are literally bed-ridden, for everyone else our
joints move plenty while walking, sitting down and lying in bed at night. I'm
sure stretching is good but you're making it sound like not squatting will
lead to your joints degenerating.

~~~
mcherm
> you're making it sound like not squatting will lead to your joints
> degenerating

I believe it will. Specifically, not squatting (or otherwise flexing it fully)
will cause a person to lose the full range of motion in their ankles.

Of course, you may not care. You may have no NEED to flex your ankles past a
certain point. But you ARE losing flexibility, just as you will lose the
ability to do splits if you don't practice them regularly.

~~~
eggy
Agreed, and walking does not put it near 90 degrees. I lived overseas almost 8
years in SE Asia, and learning to properly squat flat-footed has really made
me more flexible, and loosened up my hips and ankles. I also sat on a Pilates
ball for 6 to 7 years, but now that I am back in the US, I've gained weight,
and sitting at a desk 7 or more hours a day is wreaking havoc on my back and
making me stiff again. I take squat breaks, and squat to fill the coffee pot
instead of bending over at the water cooler. Bending is something done
different in SE Asia too compared to in the West. I lived in a Javanese rice
farming village for over a year, and watching and doing the planting and
harvesting showed the difference to me. My wife is Indonesian and will perch
in a squat on the edge of a chair or sofa while she eats - for 20 minutes. I
still can only perch or squat for 5 to 10 minutes maximum.

------
pnathan
After reading the prior discussion & spending some time at the gym doing
deadlifty things with a trainer, I experimented with doing the squat.

What I found was that while I can do a squat in, e.g., gym shorts, I simply
can not do them with my jeans: the jeans constrain my movement substantially.
And, the other thing I found, is that a bit of fat on the belly inhibits it as
well.

I can't speak for everyone, but jeans and a bit of fat on the belly is sort of
stereotypically "normal American" \- and that can help explain it to me.
Curious what sports scientists have to say here.

~~~
gaius
_And, the other thing I found, is that a bit of fat on the belly inhibits it
as well._

Look at the low stance of sumo wrestlers - belly fat doesn't prevent them,
it's all in the hip and ankle mobility.

~~~
Retric
Sumo is not doing a normal squat their feet are spread much farther apart.
This allows for all that belly fat, but significantly changes the stance.

------
mercer
I think a big part of this is very much a psychological issue.

Because squatting isn't 'common' for many people, it is experienced as more
uncomfortable than it really is (even when it's done right - where there's no
permanent tension from balance on your toes, for example).

Another example would be sitting cross-legged (or whatever that one leg over
the other thing is called) as a man. I find that I and many guys I know
naturally feel comfortable doing this, but we're taught from a young age that
it's 'gay', so we learn not to do it.

I've noticed that people with autism spectrum disorder often have really odd
ways of standing or sitting, and one particular thing I've noticed is that
this often includes squatting, sitting cross-legged / yoga-style, or sitting
on the couch with your legs folded up close to your body. In my case, these
are things I often consciously avoid doing when other people are around,
because it's perceived as odd or childish (or at least I think it is).

It would make sense that people with asd might just not care about or know
these things, and do what's naturally comfortable/efficient.

~~~
wink
Interesting, I've never heard anyone tell anyone else that sitting cross-
legged is somehow unmanly. (I'm German). More like "don't sit like that in a
professional setting" but that's also not something I remember anyone saying,
it's more tribal knowledge.

Yes, it's pretty uncommon seeing people in public do it (sometimes on the
floor or on ledges), but there are not many opportunities.

As a relatively big guy, I absolutely envy some of my smaller colleagues
(yeah, mostly women) who can sit cross-legged in their office chairs - I'd
absolutely do it, but I'm just too big, and just crossing one leg under the
other often leads to numbness after a while.

~~~
pja
Years ago I read a book which suggested that this was specific to the U.S.:
sitting cross-legged doesn't carry any particular gender / sexuality coding
elsewhere.

~~~
udp
There are two different kind of cross-legged being described here - the OP
means sitting in a chair with your right leg on top of your left, while the
reply mentions the floor which suggests the feet-under-thighs position.

I can confirm that the former is considered effeminate by some in the UK. The
latter perhaps childish.

~~~
coolso
> There are two different kind of cross-legged being described here - the OP
> means sitting in a chair with your right leg on top of your left, while the
> reply mentions the floor which suggests the feet-under-thighs position.

There is a third - sitting in a chair with just your right ankle/calf (rather
than the entire leg) resting on your left knee. I'm in the US and sit like
this often, and see other guys sitting like that often as well. For me, and I
would imagine most other males due to the male anatomy, it's just far more
comfortable than having the other leg fully crossed. I have a feeling that
this "anatomy issue" is why it's very uncommon to see males sitting that way,
but seen very commonly in females, and as a result that's why it's considered
effeminate when you see the rare male sitting that way.

------
noobly
For those in the thread looking for advice, I recommend performing overhead
squats. Just use a broom handle with a wide grip. It's almost impossible to
squat incorrectly when doing overhead squats and imo this makes it an
excellent intro. Additionally, it feels amazing once you get stretched and
comfy.

I trained in Olympic weightlifting for a bit (non-competitively) and this is
how they started inflexible people and noobs in general, and as someone who's
taught many to squat, I've never seen it done as smoothly and have adopted
this method of teaching.

~~~
sethammons
It works when it works :)

I've seen my fair share of folks pick up Olympic lifting. While many
eventually "get" it, the overhead squat does not force good form. People lean
forward, or pick up their heels. After shoulders, hips, and ankles eventually
gain flexibility, then, yeah, the overhead squat ensures good form because you
can't support much weight on the bar otherwise. If you can overhead squat a
solid amount of weight, you must have good form. A kind of survivorship bias
:)

For me, I have flexibility issues. I've been lifting from years now. I can
"Asian squat" now and I can back squat well over 300lbs, but I can only
overhead squat 125lbs once, and then I'm tore up for days.

~~~
noobly
It creates good form because it forces your shoulders, spine and hips to be in
the proper positions for a real squat. Of course, there are ways around this
(such as inflexibility as you mentioned) but I've found it's a great teaching
method for transferring into real back squats. In general it's much harder to
screw up an overhead squat than it is a back squat, and often (in my
experience) people struggle to kinematically understand even a weightless body
squat.

If you've ever spent a couple evenings trying to teach someone proper back
squat form, you may know the struggles involved. In my experience a quick
lesson on overhead squats speeds this process up greatly. And just to be
clear, I'm not advocating anyone try weighted overhead squats, I just thought
I'd share what I felt was a great intro/supplement into this "Asian"
squatting.

Also, 125 is a solid overhead squat!

------
Someone
_”Body shape also seems to play a role. Short limbs, big heads, and long
torsos make it easier to balance.”_

⇒ it is harder for people with relatively long legs.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872302/#!po=27...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872302/#!po=27.5510),
section 7.1 (SES = socioeconomic status)

 _”The table provides only a few studies, of which there are dozens. What is
important to note is that regardless of the specific leg measure taken, longer
LL is associated with better environments, better nutrition, higher SES, and
better general health, overall.”_

⇒ people in richer nations, on average, have longer legs.

Combining the two, it seems logical more people have problems doing this in
richer nations.

That paper also mentions other factors, though, in particular that people in
warmer climates have longer legs. That seems an argument against that. Asia is
cold in places, but in general, it’s quite hot.

------
Baeocystin
I believe Boris explains the hows and whys quite well.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-8gsWZqDBM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-8gsWZqDBM)

In complete seriousness, anyone can do this. Honest. It is something anyone
can learn with even a bare minimum of practice. And despite the joking nature
of the video I linked, it is quite accurate in that once you know how, it is
quite a comfortable position to hold for whatever length of time you feel
like.

------
dorfsmay
FWIW I've seen squating toilets installed in a brand new building in France 30
years ago (called Turkish toilets there). I had seen them in older buildings
but asked why you'd use those in a brand new building. I was told that it was
to save on cleaning time, that you can clean an entire room with many stalls
with a broom and a hose in the same amount of time it takes to clean single
stall that has a regular western toilet.

~~~
mertd
Interestingly, squatting toilets are called "alaturka" in Turkey, which is "à
la turca" turned into a Turkish word.

------
amriksohata
Indian origin here, from a young age my parents would with me sit on the floor
even though we had chairs, cross legged. I found a lot of my English mates
struggle to cross their legs, even as an adult I can do it but goto classes
where I see them struggle. We used to squat to eat as most Ayurvedic
principles say this is the best way to both eat and poo, it keeps your colon
straight whilst sitting on a seat forces your poo out at an angle and
increases wear and tear. Anyhow, the reason why everyone cant do the Asian
squat IMO is arrogance/ego more than anything, I think a lot of Western people
stick their nose up at it thinking its something poor people do. When infact
its how your body was designed, but years of not doing it deactivates your
knees and makes your legs less supple, which in turn causes knee and back
problems.

~~~
chiph
I just tried it (middle aged white dude) and my lack of ankle flexibility just
won't let me keep my heels on the ground. Maybe I'll add it to my workout
warmup to see if things improve over time.

~~~
lloeki
Try this progressive training[0], and keep at it. Progress may be slow, but
will eventually happen.

[0]:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBLDJMJiDE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJBLDJMJiDE)

------
chillingeffect
Classic article on undoing the Damage of Sitting. It includes squats and six
other relevant exercises. After following most this for a month, I'm able to
squat pretty darn well. I don't use weights or spend suspended time squatting.

When I started my knees and feet twisted outward as I went down. I couldn't go
down all the way without pain.

[https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/08/05/undo-the-damage-
of...](https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/08/05/undo-the-damage-of-sitting/)

------
kzrdude
It seems rather obvious that if squatting is required for restroom visits,
that's the reason everyone has them practiced and has no problem with it.

~~~
yodsanklai
> if squatting is required for restroom visits

I believe squatting toilets aren't so common anymore in developed asian
countries.

~~~
scythe
"Developed" is a multifaceted concept. I'm currently in one of the larger
cities in China, and everyone here has cellphones and wifi; there is an
extensive subway; many people own cars or e-bikes; there are many shopping
malls, restaurants, supermarkets, convenience stores etc -- but the vast
majority of bathrooms feature squatting toilets. There are some cracks in the
facade -- sewage flowing openly down one alley into a drain, unfinished vacant
buildings here and there, dubiously sanitary handling of raw meat, placebo
recycling, the infamous haze, and the grotesquely popular practice of hocking
loogies onto the sidewalk, to name a few -- but China manages to feel quite
developed and almost comfortable.

------
lordnacho
It's not just pooping. If you hang around East Asians you might notice they
squat all the time. Sitting at a table, on a sofa, pretty much everywhere.
When I think of my memories of my grandmother, guess what, she's squatting.

I only noticed the difference when my western wife pointed it out. In the west
people barely ever take up this position.

You should try it, there's something very comfy about being all scrunched up.
If you can't balance, try doing it in the corner of a sofa or with some other
support.

------
csours
Put on a tracksuit and this becomes the Slav Squat.

[https://www.google.com/search?q=slav+squat&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS5...](https://www.google.com/search?q=slav+squat&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS556US556&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy9c3PxfLZAhUCiqwKHV2yAlwQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=949)

~~~
ACow_Adonis
The slightly less PC name of "third-world squat" was how the position had
always been known to me.

Which, while probably also being technically incorrect, does make the slightly
more correct observation that it isn't something to do with "asian" countries
and cultures specifically, but there seems to be some correlation between
finding the position difficult/impossible, and living in western Europe/the
anglosphere...

~~~
akrain
To the untrained eye, there may not be any difference between the Slav and the
Asian one. But if you look closely the Slav squat has the legs spread wider
and toes pointing quite a bit outwards as compared to the Asian squat

~~~
pandaman
It's just the matter of what are you doing with your hands - if you want to
pick up something from the ground then narrow knees will block your arms from
reaching in front of you, but if you are holding something close to your face
then narrow knees are better as you can rest your upper arms on them.

------
tvanantwerp
I've been working with my physical therapist to be able to do this. My
computer use had me so stiff and immobile that, not only could I not squat, I
had a hip impingement. Hip still hurts often, and lots of my joints are tight,
but with hard work I've regained a lot of range of motion and I'm close to
being able to fully squat. I'm more flexible now than I've been since I was a
kid.

------
huffmsa
Everyone can, all toddlers do it. They don't bend over to pick things up, they
squat down.

Having long tibia and short femurs help getting the angle right, but that's
really only important for olympic weightlifting (smaller angles to change =>
faster transitions between the pull and the catch).

tl; dr - most of us westerners are fat and lazy and could do the 3rd world
squat if we didn't prefer chairs.

~~~
skookum
> Everyone can, all toddlers do it.

That's faulty logic. Toddlers' bones and cartilage aren't fully developed and
as a result their skeletal system is more pliable. They have more bones than
an adult (270 vs. 206 per wikipedia) with areas of cartilage in between that
allow for flexibility which diminishes when the maturing bones fuse in place.

------
molecule
This topic elicited some discussion a few weeks ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16471215](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16471215)

------
heldrida
This subject reminds me of a funny moment in a trip a couple of years ago; I
travelled to the Phillipines with a few friends; One of my friends (white)
said "Asian squat" is not possible for white people. I shit myself laughing...
he kept pointing out why and just sounded even more ridiculous! I did it and
said "well surely black people can"; I asked him to try it (he's into sports
and not sure how he can't do it) and he failed: "you see...It's difficult for
me as a white man"; I kept laughing and he asked one of our Asian friends to
do it and like me, she did easily. Suddenly another friend comes and asks what
we are talking about; He's the whitest guy ever, english and not really much
into sports as my white Mediterranean friend; He tries to do it first attempt
and Baaam!

That was funny :)

------
setr
just to be clear, this is same thing as a slav squat, right? First time I've
heard it as Asian

~~~
huffmsa
I suppose not having to wear track pants, an early 20th century hat and
cigarette are what differentiate the two.

------
jessaustin
I was 18yo when I first heard of the "Asian squat". I had no problem
performing it, and I still have no problem with it at 41. Now I know why: _"
Short limbs, big heads, and long torsos make it easier to balance."_ I'm 6'
with a 29" inseam and a 7.75 hat size. This may be the only advantage of a 29"
inseam that I've found...

~~~
bilbo0s
Off topic... but...

MAN... 7.75 is big?

My head is enormous. I never knew.

~~~
csours
Husky headed boy checking in. My hat size is slightly over 8. One Size Fits
all is a joke.

Anybody know where I can buy a hat?

~~~
dingaling
Tilley do a 3XL 8+ size

[https://www.tilley.com/uk_en/size-guide](https://www.tilley.com/uk_en/size-
guide)

------
graeme
Has anyone gone from being unable to do this to doing it easily, with good
form? If so, what did you do?

(For context, my left low back and my right heel both have lower range of
motion from injuries. Presumably that can be improved.)

Update: I have a preliminary answer to my own question: squat more. I just
read more hacker news while squatting, and the front of my ankles quickly
became tired.

~~~
codedinosaur
About 3-4 months of doing this[1] has gotten me to a point where I can sit in
the squat position without any effort.

[1]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opw9G1qKCcM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opw9G1qKCcM)

~~~
adrianN
"How to squat" minute three: As you exhale, you squat straight down with
perfect form. Done.

~~~
codedinosaur
In the beginning, your will be leaning forward a lot. By the time you have
perfected this movement, which too me 15-16 weeks, you are able to squat
effortlessly. Until then, you can use a modification[1]

[1] [https://youtu.be/Opw9G1qKCcM?t=332](https://youtu.be/Opw9G1qKCcM?t=332)

------
agumonkey
This brings the topic of flexibility. Some guy told me that stretching was
mostly a brain control thing (according to his theory overstretch pain is a
high level brain safety signal that may be quite far from the actual state of
the muscles and muscle fibers. Basically he advocates that stretching is
mostly a mind problem not a muscle problem)

------
z3t4
Stretch your calves. General strength training would also help. Tip: Don't
relax though, try to hold the position with active muscles and somewhat
straight back. Then you will also get stronger and burn fat/energy while also
gaining flexibility! It will help with getting your socks on in the morning
and general fitness.

------
throwawayqdhd
> So humans are born squatters; some of us lose it when we stop trying

A friend had a daughter recently and it always surprised me to see her squat
casually by herself. It's a very natural motion for human beings

------
bryanrasmussen
I'm pretty tall 6'4 (193 cm) and a lot of that height is in my legs and always
had difficult doing the full range of squat without losing balance - at best I
could get 50% of the way without falling over. Then I had my knee damaged and
my ankle broken in 3 places on my right leg (on two separate occasions) and no
I really cannot go more than 25% of the way down. If I hold on to something I
can get to 50% of the way down. But that is not an actual squat, feels pretty
uncomfortable and not exactly sure it isn't damaging.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
really what I can manage is not 50% of a squat but more 50% of a sumo stance
as it is called elsewhere.

------
ilamont
My brother-in-law was in the army in an Asian country, and whenever they had
to wait (which was all the time) they would do so in a squatting position. You
would see young civilian males (never females) doing it too while hanging
around outside of a shop or at a bus stop. As they get older, it's harder,
though.

------
rhema
I didn't care about getting into a deep squat until about 4 years ago, when I
started lifting. I would say it's taken me 2 or 3 years to be able to do it
comfortably.

It's a very natural and stable position to be in. Yesterday, I saw my almost
one year old, who cannot walk, just falling into the squat position.

------
vladTheInhaler
This is the most vexing part of the sport of weightlifting. The strength comes
quickly, but the mobility to squat deep with an upright torso comes very very
slowly. That's why there are about a million articles and forum posts with
titles just like this one.

------
BenjiWiebe
I'm white, 20yo, and squat a lot. Strange though this might sound, I actually
squat for hours on end at the computer. For me it's more comfortable than
sitting. Also I'm 6'2", so long legs. Ya, I know I'm weird. :)

------
00N8
I'm 30, relatively tall Californian male. I've done the Asian squat ever since
I read about this distinction 10 years ago. Before that I always squatted the
Western way even though i had good flexibility from sports & martial arts

------
barking
I can only squat on my toes but if I do it for any length of time the blood
goes out of my head when I stand up and I fell faint for a moment

~~~
dugmartin
That may just be low blood pressure. A friend of mine has to take medication
because even standing quickly causes him to feint.

~~~
barking
Could be, better than high blood pressure if it is, I suppose

------
ryu2k2
Uhm. People squat with their feet flat on the ground? I can only do them
standing on my toes...

~~~
seba_dos1
Both are natural for me. Squatting while standing on toes is quickly tiring
though.

------
swampthinker
Wow, I never realized I squatted differently. Time to ask a bunch of people to
squat on Monday

------
fareesh
Indian. Can't do it.

------
dingo_bat
I am Indian, and I've never been able to do it. And it has caused me immense
pain through the years :(

