
Windows 10 Review - sinak
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9543/the-windows-10-review
======
malbs
Windows 10 pushed me to Linux.

I spent the last few years slowly but surely weening myself off a dependence
on Microsoft tools (at home anyway). I switched my dev environment from VS/C#
to Python/Komodo. Email from Outlook to Gmail/Thunderbird. Stopped using IE a
decade ago or more. The idea behind it was to make sure I wasn't really bound
to a particular platform.

The last few times I tried Linux, I'd either end up with Windows withdrawals,
or some game/app I forgot about that I still used, or the kids would complain
(or wife) and would end up back on Windows. This time, I've kept another
machine running Windows on it, but my primary machine I installed Mint 17.2 on
it, and no dual booting.

Things I'm missing - Can't play Witcher 3 (but apparently a native version is
coming soon), and I'll probably miss out on SW: Battlefront. However a bunch
of other games I play have native Linux ports, in particular Kerbal Space
Program. I went a little nuts and buy a brand new gtx 980ti that might not get
stretched as much as it could by switching platforms.

Things I'm enjoying - The font rendering seems nicer? Maybe it's imagined
though. Komodo IDE runs way better under Linux than Windows, I have no idea
why. I like the fact that my time investment in learning Python is paying off
because a lot of the support tools/background tasks are written in Python.
Especially good is now being able to see open source/dev projects that in the
past I would skip over looking at because hey - no native Windows port.

It's been a couple of weeks since I switched now, and no regrets yet. Thanks
Windows 10.

~~~
cm2187
What is the closest equivalent of visual studio+c# in the linux world? I.e. A
high level language that can be used for a breadth of applications (web site,
desktop app, console, etc) and a very rich IDE which helps a lot in term of
auto-complete/debugging/discoverability? To me the IDE is at least as
important as the language.

~~~
malbs
At the time I started thinking about making that change, I don't think I had a
good answer. I started using Python, and Python Tools for Visual Studio, and
thought, this is fucked, because I love this tool, and it's tying me to
Windows still, so I consciously made the decision to switch out my dev tool to
Komodo. I don't love it. It's got nothing on PTVS, but it runs on Linux really
well.

For a decent dev tool under Linux - what about MonoDevelop? VSCode looks ok,
but I haven't tried the Linux version, but apparently you can do C#
development in it.

I'm not really up to speed with C# dev these days, last job I had which
required C# was 2009, and since then I really haven't done much serious
development in it (It's 95% Delphi professionally, and Python for my own
stuff)

Edit: I wanted to re-iterate, I absolutely love Python Tools for Visual
Studio. Those guys have created (what I have found to be) the highest quality
python development tool I have experienced. The downside is it requires Visual
Studio. If they can take what they have added to VS, and re-produce that in
VSCode.... Wow, I would be very happy.

~~~
vetinari
For python, try Pycharm. There's also community edition, which may or may not
be enough for you. Another step up is Intellij Idea, which supports everything
that all the other language-specific products together.

------
jwcooper
For all the negativity, I really like Windows 10. I had been using Windows 8.1
and consider it to be one of the worst desktop operating systems I've used in
the last 10 years. That's partially why I like Windows 10 so much. They fixed
so many of the backwards ideas that came with 8.1.

That being said, I mostly use it as an entertainment consumption device these
days. I have a PC that I use solely to play games and watch shows. My every
day computer for development is now a Macbook Pro with OS X and all the nice
posix-like tools included.

I think that's one of the bigger long-term issues Microsoft might be facing.
It seems in the last 5 years or so there has been a fairly large exodus of
developers from Windows to Linux or OS X.

~~~
WalterGR

       I had been using Windows 8.1 and consider it to be one of the worst
       desktop operating systems I've used in the last 10 years.
    

Why?

It's Windows 7 with a few improvements. I'm vaguely aware that there's this
"Metro" stuff that people dislike, but aside from dismissing the 'start
screen' when you reboot - and there may very well be a configuration setting
to bypass it and go directly to the desktop - you otherwise literally never
have to deal with it.

~~~
jwcooper
My biggest issue was the metro stuff; mostly the default apps that would open
in full screen mode.

Opening a PDF or an image in a new Windows 8 installation was always a
frustrating surprise.

The start menu was confusing, and anytime you'd go into a metro-type
application it was jarring.

~~~
WalterGR
Ah. I guess my experience was different because I installed apps that I
preferred over the built-in ones and found a start menu replacement.

~~~
tbrock
Wow. Sounds like Microsoft really nailed the experience on that one. Step 1:
replace everything with something else.

~~~
WalterGR
I don't know what you mean.

There are pre-installed apps on OS X, Linux, and Windows. If you don't care
for the pre-installed ones, you can install ones that you prefer. Same with
the kind-of default 'controls' like the Start Menu, or the Dock, or what
various Linux distros call their equivalents.

Windows 8/8.1 is Windows 7 with a few improvements and some "Metro" stuff that
you can almost entirely avoid.

~~~
banachtarski
Needing to replace the start menu, which is an integral part of the desktop
manager hardly qualifies as a standard practice for a consumer-grade operating
system.

I found the shipped state of Windows 8 unusable as a power user so I needed to
replace it as well. I consider that a complete failure.

~~~
WalterGR

       Needing to replace the start menu, which is an integral part of the desktop
       manager hardly qualifies as a standard practice for a consumer-grade operating system.
    

And I find the OS X Dock to be an utter abomination. I took advantage of the
power I have to install software and installed a replacement.

    
    
       I found the shipped state of Windows 8 unusable as a power
       user so I needed to replace it as well. 
    

Good on you.

Though, I still don't understand what the comment I was replying to meant by,
"Step 1: replace everything with something else."

~~~
petersellers
> Though, I still don't understand what the comment I was replying to meant
> by, "Step 1: replace everything with something else."

If you have to replace things like the "start menu", the built in pdf reader,
the built in settings app, etc. etc. all because of the same UI design flaw it
starts to feel like you are fighting with the OS to get to the level of
productivity with which you were previously accustomed. If you feel the need
to have to do that, then something is wrong with the design of the OS.
Obviously this is a subjective opinion that can differ for each individual,
but considering the horrible adoption rate of Windows 8 it seems likely that
this is an opinion shared by many.

Objectively, forcing apps to run in fullscreen mode can be a huge waste of
real estate for large computer monitors. The gestures required to summon the
"charms" bar and the app switcher are completely unintuitive and awkward for a
desktop UI. Things like that make far more sense for mobile devices, but it
appears like Windows 8 tried to combine mobile and desktop UIs in a confusing,
frustrating, an inefficient way. It's quite telling that these were major
design errors as Windows 10 backtracks from that philosophy almost completely.

~~~
WorldWideWayne
This type of complaint needs highlight the fact that "design flaws" are a
matter of course for any major operating systems. Without doing that, it comes
off as a fairly one-sided, myopic point of view.

Plenty of people hate the built-in components of OS X like the single Menu
bar, the Dock, the Finder and lots of other things. That's why there have
always been apps to (attempt to) replace them (unfortunately, Apple typically
doesn't give you the same degree of control that Microsoft does).

Apple has also back-tracked on many things in OS X, like finally (finally!)
giving people the ability to resize a window by any edge or corner (after
years and years of telling everybody that having only "one true way" of doing
it was somehow better. Just like "one mouse button" was better for everybody
until it wasn't. Just like so many things with Apple. They seem to be fond of
buttons with no text and just an icon these days. And I've seen a ton of
people complain about it. Unfortunately, that would too difficult to replace
with a third party app.)

------
wslh
My two cents:

\- My notebook battery (X220) lasts ~60% less than before

\- USB 3.0 port working as a 2.0 one

\- The upgrade process failed with my Office 2013. It is constantly trying to
install some package when I go to the Outlook search box and never finishes
successfully. Microsoft Answers solutions don't work (as usual).

\- The metro widgets are not minimalist, they are incomplete. Now it takes
three clicks to connect to my VPN instead of just one (starting from the same
place)

\- I can't easily disconnect the Windows updates.

\- I was lucky not following the recommended express settings, I feel owned by
Microsoft.

The good things? UI responsiveness and multiple virtual desktops. I am
seriously thinking about downgrading to Windows 7 or buying a Windows 10
"certified" notebook.

~~~
VeejayRampay
I know this is going to sound like gratuitous snark but it's crazy that
"multiple virtual desktops" are considered a plus in 2015. It's quite telling
about the fact that Windows is not a developer platform anymore.

~~~
scholia
Virtual desktops have been a free download since the last century. Very few
people use them, so there was never much point in shipping them with the OS.
Not sure there is now.... [https://www.brandwatch.com/2015/08/react-why-
thousands-of-pe...](https://www.brandwatch.com/2015/08/react-why-thousands-of-
people-love-and-hate-windows-10/)

And the idea that Windows is not a developer platform is extremely ill-
informed....

~~~
lenkite
The sysinternals virtual desktops free software is highly buggy (crashes on
creating new desktop many times when connected to external monitor needing a
reboot), hogs memory, never worked well with the Windows 8.1 start menu, never
worked well with Windows Store Apps and Alt-Tab. I am glad that virtual
desktops are now natively supported.

~~~
scholia
Mmm, Desktops v2 seemed to work OK, though I never tried it in Windows 8. And
there were always third-party alternatives. [https://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/cc817881](https://technet.microsoft.com/en-
us/sysinternals/cc817881)

 _I am glad that virtual desktops are now natively supported._

No argument there ;-)

------
x0054
> Speaking of updates, Windows 10 no longer offers a way to disable Windows
> Updates in the settings page. Pro will let you defer feature updates, but
> not security updates, and Enterprise versions will offer a long term
> servicing branch option, but the goal here is to keep Windows up to date
> going forward.

This is kind of a big deal. I have had Windows Update brake things in the
past, and I also have a limited internet connection during the day time. It's
disappointing that this can not be disabled, and ran at will, when I am good
and ready to deal with the potential screwups.

~~~
babby
While I recommend a switch to Linux/Mac, you can make updates behave like Win7
by opening "Edit Group Policies" in the start search. Then look for Windows
Updates for the option.

Without this done windows will actually download updates automatically while
you are ingame or something else network sensitive, it's so fucking stupid.

~~~
x0054
Is that setting available in Win10 Pro, or just enterprise?

~~~
otis_inf
Enterprise. Pro has the 'delay till we say it's time' option.

~~~
babby
Thats wrong. Pro lets you choose not to download it indefinitely with the
option I described.

Unless you're implying it auto-downloads after a few weeks, I wouldn't know.

~~~
otis_inf
AFAIK you can disable it but it will enable it automatically after a while
again, so it's not indefinitely disabled.

------
kderbe
The Microsoft Jackpot game discussed on page 6 is sickening. Why is Microsoft
publishing a shoddy free-to-play slot machine game that offers in-app
purchases in $200 increments? It casts a bad light on both their store and
their new OS.

~~~
joshstrange
Almost as bad as making solitare a subscription game....

~~~
scholia
Which it isn't. It's free to play but ad-supported, just like most other free
apps downloaded from online stores.

Nothing stops you from getting a desktop version, or even retrieving the code
from an earlier version of Windows.

------
thenomad
OK, since everyone's saying "now's the time to switch to Linux" \- would I be
able to switch yet?

Requisites:

1) Adobe Creative Cloud working with no performance loss. Photoshop, After
Effects, Premiere are probably the most key elements. 2) 3DSMax and
Motionbuilder usable under Linux. I could switch to Maya from Max if
absolutely necessary. 3) 99.5% of games playable on Linux, including Blizzard
stuff, FFXIV. 4) Unreal Engine 4 and Unity development possible without
productivity loss compared to Windows. 5) Evernote and Skype working.

Thinking about it, that's pretty much it.

Would that be doable?

~~~
zephyrthenoble
You have named a lot of applications that are native to Windows only. You
might be able to get them working on Linux using WINE, but I can tell you from
my experience that on Fedora 21 Blizzard games are difficult if not impossible
to get working.

I don't have experience wit the other applications you mentioned.

~~~
TheGrimDerp1
I've never had problems running blizz games in wine

------
garrettgrimsley
>One of my favorite features that has come to Windows 10 is the ability to
scroll an inactive window. Prior to Windows 10, and assuming you were not
running a third party utility which enabled this, in order to scroll a window
you had to first select it.

The author might be referring to KatMouse[0] here. It a fantastic little
program, always one of my first installs when I roll out a new system.

[0] [http://ehiti.de/katmouse/](http://ehiti.de/katmouse/)

~~~
WalterGR
Another option is: Windows has had built-in support for focus-follows-mouse
since at least Windows 2000. (Enabling it means that keyboard input also goes
to the window under the cursor, natch. But I prefer that: I find it
_dramatically_ reduces the amount of clicking I do.)

Focus-follows-mouse can be enabled by editing the registry, or using a utility
such as the (small) xmouse-controls: [https://github.com/joelpurra/xmouse-
controls](https://github.com/joelpurra/xmouse-controls).

------
rsuelzer
I couldn't be happier with Windows 10. I actually went out and bought a
windows phone and ditched my iPhone. I might be crazy, but I feel like this is
the right direction of the company. They also realized that no one is going to
pay for software so they need to make revenue via advertising and premium
features.

~~~
Silhouette
_They also realized that no one is going to pay for software so they need to
make revenue via advertising and premium features._

The last few decades of Microsoft's trading history would seem to disagree.

This is why their new strategy seems so odd to me. They seemed to have a solid
business model, whose main downside was that as people bought PCs less often
they wouldn't sell as many copies of Windows preinstalled on new machines.

They could have compensated by moving to a subscription model for very long
term support, which is something they have generally always done much better
than anyone else in the field.

They could have used their combined back office/front office/mobile
capabilities -- a combination of strengths almost unique in the industry -- to
push a more business/professional/power user friendly alternative to just
shoving everything into the cloud and reducing software to lightweight apps
that are a shadow of what traditional desktop applications have been.

Instead, they seem to be trying to out-Google Google and out-Apple Apple. It's
almost like they've given up and now they just dreaming of maybe, one day,
being able to take on the awesome development capabilities of those three guys
eating Ramen in a parent's basement as they crank out yet another small
business app in a couple of months and charge a $19.99/mo subscription for it.

I think plenty of people will pay for good software. I just don't think
Microsoft thinks those people are its market any more, and that's sad.

~~~
scholia
Windows 10 doesn't introduce a new strategy and doesn't involve a new business
model. Microsoft is simply offering a free upgrade to earlier paid-for
versions, partly to reduce market fragmentation and partly to try to create a
market for new Windows Runtime apps distributed from the Windows Store.

Windows Runtime apps and the Windows Store were introduced with Windows 8.
However, we now have "Universal" apps that are meant to run on smartphones,
tablets, 2-in-1s, laptops, desktops etc, and the Xbox One games console.

~~~
Silhouette
I wasn't referring only to Windows 10 with the "new strategy" comments.
Microsoft have been pushing away from traditional server/workstation software
towards more on-line services, consumption over creation, and mysterious
cloudy things for the past few years, with Windows 8 and Office 365 for
example, as well as purely cloud-based services like OneDrive. But Windows 10
seems to be the betting-the-farm move on the OS side, with a degree of
permanent connectivity and reliance on remote services for some of its basic
operations that is new, and a degree of compulsory updating and privacy
intrusion that is also far beyond any previous Windows version.

Nothing about this seems like something I want as a user, but in this
discussion my point is that very little about it seems like something I'd want
if I were Microsoft either. It's playing away from their strengths and proven
successes, and into the two fields (on-line services and mobile) where they
have consistently lagged behind and had their lunch eaten by other big
players.

~~~
scholia
Yes, you're right: Microsoft has been pushing into "mysterious cloudy things
for the past few years, with Windows 8 and Office 365". Windows 10 isn't
fundamentally different from Windows 8 in that regard: the only new thing is
Cortana, which came from Windows Phone, and which is optional.

Apple and Google haven't crossed this river yet because they don't offer
versions of Siri or Google Now to PC users.

 _It 's playing away from their strengths and proven successes, and into the
two fields (on-line services and mobile) where they have consistently lagged
behind and had their lunch eaten by other big players._

Nadella says "Mobile first, cloud first" because that's where the market is
going. So far it's doing well with Azure (which is second to AWS) and Office
365 (which is overtaking or has overtaken Google). Both Outlook.com and
OneDrive work well. Microsoft also has a couple of dozen apps on both Android
and iOS, which makes it more cross-platform than either Apple or Google.

Sure, it has a very long way to go. On the other hand, it has a strong cross-
platform strategy with very clear goals. It also has a track-record for coming
from behind and beating incumbents (albeit not recently, unless you count
Xbox).

 _reliance on remote services for some of its basic operations that is new,
and a degree of compulsory updating_

It has run Windows Update for a long time. The only real difference is that
Windows Update now delivers both patches and improved features, instead of
just patches.

This is a bit ahead of the competition (what's innovation for?) but smartphone
users are familiar with having apps updated automatically on a regular basis.
It happens almost daily on my Android phone.

We're talking about the _consumer_ branch of Windows 10 here, and most
consumers don't want to look after their PCs, even if they had the skills,
which they don't.

Otherwise, re the hysteria about "privacy intrusion" see
[http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-microsoft-is-not-spying-
on-y...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/no-microsoft-is-not-spying-on-you-with-
windows-10/)

PS Wish I could give you an extra upvote for correct use of English in "the
past few years". ;-)

~~~
Silhouette
_Nadella says "Mobile first, cloud first" because that's where the market is
going. So far it's doing well with Azure (which is second to AWS) and Office
365 (which is overtaking or has overtaken Google). Both Outlook.com and
OneDrive work well._

It's a relative scale, though. Google Docs, or whatever we're calling it this
week, is basically a toy. It's useful enough for what it does, but completely
unsuitable for a lot of professional or otherwise demanding work because it
lacks so much in both features and usability. Overtaking a toy version of your
flagship application isn't particularly impressive.

Comparing Office 365 against Google Docs also seems to be something of an
apples-to-oranges comparison anyway. What is the market share of any on-line
office suite compared to the desktop Office powerhouse? I can't immediately
find recent figures searching as I write this, but based on not-too-long-ago
data the answer appears to be tiny.

 _On the other hand, it has a strong cross-platform strategy with very clear
goals. It also has a track-record for coming from behind and beating
incumbents (albeit not recently, unless you count Xbox)._

I see things rather differently.

For one thing, I don't think Microsoft's cross-platform strategy is strong at
all. They seem to be trying to make all devices work the same way, but many of
those devices are fundamentally different. The result is all too often the
same as a lot of "mobile first" web design: least common denominator thinking
and poor usability in many of the environments it's used in. See also:
criticism of Windows 8's excessively touch-friendly UI by just about everyone
who had a keyboard and mouse on their computer.

As for coming from behind and beating incumbents... I'm honestly struggling to
think of good examples of that. The Microsoft history I recall seems to be
full of failures, from Bing to successive mobile operating systems. Even the
Xbox programme, which you mentioned as a positive example, actually
contributed to MS losing billions in its first few years, while today the Xbox
One remains far behind the PS4 in current gen console market share.

 _The only real difference is that Windows Update now delivers both patches
and improved features, instead of just patches._

Well, there is that little "you can't opt out" issue.

 _This is a bit ahead of the competition (what 's innovation for?) but
smartphone users are familiar with having apps updated automatically on a
regular basis._

And in my experience, it's hard to find any of them that actually _like_ it,
not least because people keep pushing out updates that change UIs in unwanted
ways, cripple performance, or outright break the phone. There seem to be few
things that rile my less technical friends and family more than their systems
changing (and sometimes breaking) when they didn't ask them to. See also: the
failure of dynamically changing menus that were in Microsoft's own Office
suite for a while, and attendant tech support nightmares, not to mention the
users of web apps and other subscription software taking to Twitter and
Facebook to complain every time something important drops out.

As things stand, I don't see this trend lasting as the mainstream option for
more than a few years, even with industry momentum and commercial incentives
behind it. There's just too much customer-hostile about it both under the hood
and in your face. The marketing says you get better security and the latest
features sooner. The reality can all too often be substandard software shipped
before it was ready because it can just be patched later, frequent
rearrangement of UIs that no-one really wanted, uncertainty every time you
fire up your software about whether it will work today, and perhaps worst of
all, fewer substantial new features, because why bother innovating when your
customers are already locked in anyway?

 _We 're talking about the consumer branch of Windows 10 here_

We are? As far as I can see, most of what's being said in this discussion is
just as applicable to Pro, which means it also applies to power users and most
small to medium businesses.

 _Otherwise, re the hysteria about "privacy intrusion" see_

The thing is, I've seen several waves of this. First there were the "It's all
good" reviews. Then there were the panic-stricken "Privacy is dead, security
is dead" responses. Then there were the rationalising "No they're not" posts
like the one you linked to there.

It's true that some of the concerns were overstated. However, it also remains
fundamentally true that Microsoft's Windows 10 privacy policy is vague and
open-ended in its scope, and that the default Windows privacy settings _will_
send large amounts of data to Microsoft, much of which they would not
previously have received, and potentially including sensitive information. It
is also likely that many users won't be aware of the numerous settings on
numerous screens they would need to turn off to restore previous levels of
privacy, partly because it's pretty much all opt-out, and partly because in
some cases the installer outright lies (e.g., on the telemetry question).

However, the real debate-ender for me is that even if every privacy criticism
were completely fabricated and false today, with compulsory updates and a
vague privacy policy _there is no guarantee that they won 't become true
tomorrow_. The only reason to trust that it won't is trust that Microsoft
won't make changes you don't like. And that's the same Microsoft that has just
removed the ability to block updates (something only relevant to power users
if Microsoft wants to force an update that the user doesn't want), the same
Microsoft that is already relying on absurd levels of complexity and dark
patterns to dissuade users from opting out of the existing privacy intrusions
in Windows 10, and the same Microsoft that has repeatedly abused the Windows
Update process for users of earlier Windows versions in recent months to push
out telemetry (essentially, spyware) updates, nagging advertising messages,
and so on.

------
doczoidberg
why I use Windows 10 on my desktop for daily work:

\- best hardware support, no driver problems for example with my graphics card
or thinkpad dock

\- updates etc. just work without any configurations or reading manuals

\- Visual Studio is yet only available to Windows, whereas it evolves to the
most compelling cross platform development tool (xamarin, universal apps,
android and ios support)

\- productive cortana search

\- fast, even on old hardware

\- the desktop is much more faster and fluent than e.g. gnome

\- I don't care sending over metrics to Microsoft, this is needed to make
software better

\- I can see edge evolve

I use linux vms on some severs where I need to scale things. But it has only
one reason: fast deployment times because of smaller os images.

------
MarkMc
I know this may seem petty, but my biggest problem with Windows 10 is that it
is _ugly_. Microsoft: Please bring back window title bar and borders with that
lovely flat translucent style.

~~~
VeejayRampay
I agree. It's mixing different styles from different eras (some icons,
especially in the device manager thingy feel awfully XP-ish or even earlier
period), making the whole thing non visually consistent and quite ugly.

------
skc
Been a very solid upgrade for me.

I never minded Windows 8.1 as much as most people did. Windows 10 is actually
a great improvement over Windows 7 which is something I never thought would
happen given the realities of the PC market today. But somehow they managed
it.

Kudos.

------
lottin
Why do GUI designers hate sub-menus? Note that the new Start menu doesn't
really have sub-menus, it's just one big expandable menu. It falls in this
general trend of getting rid of sub-menus and replacing them with less
efficient alternatives. It annoys me greatly.

~~~
hodwik
Most users won't use tree strcutures. If you don't give them a flat structure,
they won't use it. Look at how many people keep all of their files directly on
their Desktop.

------
makecheck
Be sure to actually follow the links at the bottom; I found the article layout
so subtle that I almost thought it was done on the first page.

------
xnzakg
> One of my favorite features that has come to Windows 10 is the ability to
> scroll an inactive window.

That's one of the things that annoy me when using Windows (on someone else's
computer). That was fast, Microsoft. Linux had it for a long while already.

~~~
joshstrange
Yeah OS X has this for a while as well and you don't realize how awesome it is
until you've had it for a while and then gone back to Windows for something.

------
kozukumi
I am still undecided about Windows 10. I have been running it as my primary OS
since release day and while it isn't bad I don't really see any benefit to it
either.

Cortana isn't as helpful on my computer as it is on my phone but even then I
don't really care about talking to my devices. The most helpful it has been is
reminders, being able to say "remind me to call John at 5pm" is kinda nice.

Multiple desktops are very goofy on Windows 10. Not as good as on Linux or
even OS X.

Microsoft's built in apps for media are pathetic still.

There are many annoying things also such as uninstall store apps constantly
reinstall such as 3D Builder, Get Skype and Get Office. Even after I have
Office installed!! Selecting a new Note from the Action Centre can only load
the gimped built in OneNote not the full OneNote that is part of Office. Same
with clicking the Surface Pen.

The start menu is seriously limited in where I can put things. I can't really
personalise it much beyond putting tiles in the designated areas.

Edge is pretty awful with its current feature set.

Basically Windows 10 was released 6 months too early. I don't really
understand why they were so desperate to release in July? Surely it would have
made more sense to push back to October (Threshold 2 release window) or maybe
even into 2016 when they can have a proper v1 version of Edge and more
features in things like Groove Music which lacks even basic library management
features like editing a songs tags.

Then we have the UI which is an inconsistent mess. Different styles all over
the place.

So reading all this you would think I hate Windows 10 but I don't. I am
disappointed with it as is but I am still using it over Windows 8.1 although
it is more because it isn't worse than 8.1. At least not enough so to fall
back to it anyway. It doesn't really give me anything amazing over 8.1 though.

I should add that I am not a Windows Store app user. I fucking hate how bland
and limited most store apps are. There is no simple way to store app settings
in a transportable way such as an ini file on a pen drive, for that you need
to stick with old Win32 portable apps. For a tech professional/power user
store apps are horrible.

~~~
zapu
Can you elaborate on multiple desktops? That was the one feature for which I
was going to do the upgrade.

~~~
kozukumi
My biggest issue is I can't right click on the title bar of an app and send it
to another desktop. I have to open the Task View and move it that way. Not
very user friendly.

~~~
rhodysurf
This is what annoys me too. And you can't drag around the windows when in
expose like Gnome or OSX let you do.

~~~
kozukumi
Nope. It is a rather gimped implementation sadly but that is pretty much true
of Windows 10 in general. Lots of good ideas about 30% implemented.

------
Mithaldu
Regarding the virtual desktops: They sadly remain useless since you can't have
one program occupy multiple/all desktops. Any program can only ever be on one
single virtual desktop.

~~~
randx838
really? You can't open 2 browser windows and put them in different desktops?

~~~
luisrudge
yes you can. Maybe he/she is talking about the same window instance?

~~~
Mithaldu
Yes. That.

~~~
veidr
Wow, that makes it "useless"?? Sounds like a very esoteric and unusual working
style to me.

~~~
Mithaldu
Some window managers on linux describe this as "sticky windows".

If someone has programs open for multiple different tasks, and also runs a [
chat program/music player/calendar/email watcher/network monitor/temperature
monitor/generic note-taking program/etc.etc.etc. ] on a second monitor (or if
one's monitor is big enough, on some empty space there), then there is no
reason whatsoever to use virtual desktops right now.

This is due to the inability to keep watch on any of these "global state"
programs without switching between desktops, since the user now is forced to
actively switch to look at them, instead of just being able to look to the
left.

Is that still esoteric and unusual to you?

~~~
randx838
I don't know win 10, I use xmonad. There, virtual desktops are 1 per monitor
by default. It sounds like what you are saying is that windows virtual
desktops span all of your monitors. Is that right? If so, I agree that is
lame.

~~~
Mithaldu
Thanks for asking that, the confusion people had with my complaint makes sense
now. Yes, Windows 10 virtual desktops spans all screens attached. You can't
just switch per-screen; and there are no sticky windows.

(Although windows that do _not_ have taskbar entries do stick around, like
rainlendar, or dumeter.)

------
rebootthesystem
We have to use Windows because tools such as Solidworks, Altium Designer and a
gaggle of other FEA, CAM and engineering tools pretty much leave us no
options. For everything else it's a VM running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.

The combination works really well on beefy development machines with three
large monitors, tons of memory and multiple (4 to 5) hard drives.

This actually is a really nice environment to work on because you can
seamlessly choose which tools work best on which platform and optimize your
process accordingly. For example, I can use Excel under Windows to prepare
data to then export into a PostgreSQL database using Python on the Ubuntu
virtual machine. Really slick.

~~~
tempestn
I also use a Windows 7 machine with multiple monitors and Linux VMs for
development. I also mount a number of Samba folders from a separate Linux
server and generally have an ssh terminal open to it as well. Agreed that it's
a nice environment. Basically the polish of Windows without sacrificing the
power^ of Linux.

^I'm sure most or all of what I do in Linux could be done in Windows, but like
most developers I'm far more familiar with *nix tooling than Windows
equivalents.

~~~
rebootthesystem
For web development being on linux is just natural. I feel it is the right
choice.

On HN when someone says "development" it is usually taken to mean "web
development". Let's not forget there are worlds outside that domain, like
embedded software and hardware where being on Windows makes a lot of sense due
to the tools.

~~~
tempestn
Totally. I did mean web development now, but previously I was an electrical
engineer, so I've definitely spent some time with Altium. :)

------
pjspycha
Windows 10 is just another example of the trend in all operating systems. It
came out a little more buggy than what used to be considered acceptable. New
features are added that are unpolished and made at the expense of privacy or
usability. Even thou people hated Vista, under the hood there was a lot of
technical improvements to be happy about. Windows 10 really is just hinging on
directx 10.

Sadly this trend is there with Apple as well. No one really uses the family
ipad2 anymore since we upgraded to ios8.

------
rjempson
I think I just witnessed the day Hacker News died. This thread is appalling,
much like the article. I'm no Windows apologist, but the article was a ramble
about windows 8 with a paragraph tacked on the end, and the comments here are
even less relevant.

------
frik
_Yes, Windows 10 does do more with your data than any previous version of
Windows, but that is not always a bad thing._

Really? What a blabla article, with no investigative journalims. Have they
analysed the encrypted (SSL) data traffic to dozens of domains? Of course not.
Such a soviet kind of operating system isn't well regarded in the land of the
free(dom). And there are no reports that more than 10 recent Win7&8 updates
ship with many spy&tracking features. An unheard offensive tactics that shows
Microsoft evil attempt.

~~~
WalterGR

       Really? What a blabla article, with no investigative journalims. Have they
       analysed the encrypted (SSL) data traffic to dozens of domains? Of course not. 
    

Has anyone, or is this just FUD?

I recently got a Mac - I'm typing this in OS X, so how does Windows 10 compare
to OS X, out of curiosity?

Linux certainly wins on this point, though. Unless Ubuntu has telemetry?

~~~
et1337
It does, sort of. [http://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-
lin...](http://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-linux-
integrating-amazon/)

~~~
gillianseed
Yes that was a really stupid move, thankfully they seem to be changing this to
opt-in rather than opt-out.

[http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/ubuntu-make-amazon-
produc...](http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/03/ubuntu-make-amazon-product-
results-opt-unity)

------
anon3_
Windows 10 impressed me, but overall, I miss those POSIX-like conventions.

I miss how in OS X, I can at least open up a terminal and go to shop. cd /
mkdir / tmux / vim

I'm disappointed by the call homes.

The lack of a package manager. Chocolate GUI is kind of a joke. Even Synaptic
could queue multiple packages back in 2000.

MSFT promised an SSH client. It's nowhere to be found.

Overall, I'd rather fork over the cash and get a POSIX-like environment with
OS X. If not, Fedora and Ubuntu are so featureful.

~~~
AjithAntony
>The lack of a package manager

maybe soon?

[http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-
linux-...](http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-linux-style-
package-manager-named-oneget/)

~~~
kozukumi
The thing is OneGet isn't a package manager, it is an automated installer.

------
SFjulie1
It is as shitty as the unity interface from ubuntu.

But for stupid zealotishs reasons people will develop a Stockholm syndroma and
will find the new UI un/correct according to the terrorists kidnapping them.

~~~
tracker1
I still think the Windows 7 UI was one of the best desktop UXs made to date...
Windows 10 is less annoying with the stupid web search disabled. WTF would an
application with a start menu entry not come up before a web searched term,
ruins the UI... At least Unity does/did better on that.

With it disabled, my workflow is mostly the same.. apps I use the most are
pinned to the dock/taskbar, and anything else I hit the meta/super/win key,
then type what I want and hit enter. It pretty much works everywhere (except
osx).

~~~
ino
Win 7 was excellent. It was the OS with the best defaults and features out of
the box (even now, but specially for the time). Very little fiddling around
was needed.

Win 8 made me switch to OSX. No regrets, but I miss Win 7 sometimes.

------
sandworm101
A review? Umpteen billion lines of code, vast new features, privacy issues,
tens of thousands of man hours ... and this "reviewer" cannot get past the
GUI.

~~~
tempestn
I thought the review was extremely detailed and got into many aspects of the
OS outside of the GUI. Details of DirectX12 and graphics performance in
general, comparisons across a number of performance metrics with Windows 8,
details on all the major built-in applications, info on new wifi features,
data syncing, new login options... and those are only the ones that
immediately come to mind.

