
Nasty Gal, an Online Start-Up, Is a Fast-Growing Retailer - chriscampbell
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/technology/nasty-gal-an-online-start-up-is-a-fast-growing-retailer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
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jval
I don't know anything about fashion but I spoke to some friends who are
lifelong fashion addicts. Apparently in the fashion blogosphere they're more
well known for copying small designers than they are for the quality of their
clothing:

[http://la.racked.com/archives/2013/01/09/nasty_gal_engages_i...](http://la.racked.com/archives/2013/01/09/nasty_gal_engages_in_some_supernasty_instagram_bickering.php)

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adventured
Amancio Ortega has made $50 billion copying other designers. Sincerest form of
flattery and all that.

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brador
How does protection work on fashion? Anyone got a tldr on fashion
copyright/design protection?

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netcan
There's an interesting 1hr podcast (with transcript) here:
[http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2010/06/blakely_on_fash.htm...](http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2010/06/blakely_on_fash.html)

The tldr is: _In the fashion industry there is limited protection for
innovative designs and as a result, copying is rampant. Despite the ease of
copying, innovation is quite strong in the industry and there is a great deal
of competition._

I would add that, (1) the clothing industry is similar now to the the time IP
was being legislated so it was directly addressed rather than derived by
similarity to other areas. Its a little more logical and true to the original
goals of IP than areas that derive. (2) There is a big element of
hivemind/zeitgeist/emergence in fashion because people invent their own outfit
every time they dress. (3) The combination of innovative fashion & quality is
what makes high fashion brands valuable. (4) the lack of IP protection
actually fuels innovation as a design will remain somewhat exclusive for a
season only.

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saosebastiao
This is an excellent podcast. There was a similar video a while back, actually
showing the garments that they talked about, but I can't seem to find it.

What I find most humorous about those that are so bent out of shape about the
copying is that they themselves are copycats, but they hold themselves to
different standards. To them, it is okay to copy a design from 10-20 years
ago, or to pull 10 different design elements from a current design...but if
someone does it to them, they want to sue. The simple fact is that design
elements of contemporary fashion are always recycled. Runway fashion is
innovative (from an art and design perspective, as much as this crowd would
probably laugh at that), but not marketable, as most people (even
fashionistas) do not want to be walking art exhibitions.

~~~
subsystem
I'm guessing it was the ted talk by the same person.

[http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashio...](http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html)

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shard
Paywall-less Google link to article:
[http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&#...</a>

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DanielRibeiro
Sophia gave a very good, albeit a bit long, interview recently:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y04gnM57Sow>

This has a lot more insights into how she built Nasty Gal, and how she raised
her series A.

~~~
marcamillion
Wow....thanks for this.

I LOVE this girl. She built Nasty Gal in the most healthy way possible. LOVE
IT!!

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gamblor956
Downtown LA is home to a thriving fashion startup scene, but it doesn't get
much coverage (aside from male-led startups like ShoeDazzle) because fashion
isn't something that the (largely male) startup world understands.

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awongh
what other companies are in that scene that I wouldn't have heard of?

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sachingulaya
Combatant Gentlemen ( <http://www.combatgent.com> )

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Lewisham
Is there seriously a sex scene in the background?!

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rdouble
That... is tacky.

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nawitus
But in a way a lot more honest than 99% of the implicit sex-driven
advertising.

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rdouble
The notion that you will get laid because you bought a $160 suit is about as
dishonest as it gets.

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nawitus
In what way is that dishonest? Wearing better clothes instead of ugly ones
makes you more attractive to the opposite sex, that's just a fact.

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lowglow
This seems like a great founder/product fit. She's hip/cool/fashionable and
knows her product and demo pretty well.

I really like the fact that stuck through the grind, and slowly built up a
loyal following. I think that is something missing from a lot of start-ups in
the valley right now. People tend to shut down their projects when people
don't come flocking. This also might be a testament to just building something
people want.

~~~
mgkimsal
There's nothing in that article that suggests she "did a startup" though,
which is the other side of the coin. She resold some clothes on ebay to make a
few extra bucks, and it grew from there.

~~~
tjic
What's your definition of startup? She started a company and it grew. Works
for me.

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mgkimsal
I run in to loads of people that want to "do a startup". They've subscribed to
the culture of 'tech startup', they know all the buzzwords, go to the right
networking events, learn about VC and term sheets before they even have a
product or service, and so on.

She did have a Virgin tattoo, and was/is a fan of Branson from an early age;
I'm assuming from that she had a head for business early on, and built from
that, but that is miles different from the 'startup culture' I run in to these
days ("how many accelerators have you applied to? are you on angel list?" etc)

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Trindaz
I'm surprised to read Nasty Gal being seen as a fad - what indicators of
stability are stronger than 6 years of consistent growth? Don't fashion fads
have a single season 6 month life expectancy?

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adventured
For a brand like Nasty Gal, it's dependent on the people running it and their
ability to constantly shift with the tide. Very few can do it, but some
entrepreneurs do pull it off (and they often end up as huge fashion brands).

Fashion trends have a short life expectancy, but if you can change with them
season after season, then you'll be a monster in the fashion world.

~~~
muhfuhkuh
So, you're Friendster one year, Facebook the other? Don't most industries work
in the same "it-girl" cycles?

~~~
subsystem
Not as extreme as fashion, there's a reason vogue is called vogue :)

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fab101
A great success story. She just mapped her own personality online, and tried
to make money out of it - which her company did, boatloads of. Could be a
classic example of "look around, and try to solve a problem that you face
yourself and people like yourself. that would be a great idea for a startup".

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rdouble
It would be interesting (but unlikely) to hear about the company's entire
financial picture. After working in online fashion retail, it's clear almost
nobody is making money, despite what their revenues are.

~~~
adventured
If you spend some time on their site, you'll notice they have huge margins.

eg: <http://www.nastygal.com/clothes/paisley-sky-overalls>

$78 for overalls.

Or $65 for a bikini bottom -

<http://www.nastygal.com/clothes/righteous-bikini-bottom>

It wouldn't surprise me at all if their net margin is great (compared to most
retail).

~~~
rdouble
That doesn't really mean much - most online fashion retail has similar
markups, and nobody else is making money.

Edit: In the case of the 2nd piece, Nasty Gal probably isn't making much money
on it at all. It's made in the USA (which is usually a higher cost item), and
the direct from manufacturer price is 63 dollars. Thus, it's probably a drop
ship item with a razor thin margin.

~~~
Axsuul
Nasty Gal initially started out by selling vintage clothes which happen to
have huge margins. One piece she purchased for $8 sold for $1000. So I'm sure
the margins are still there now that Nasty Gal is trying to become more of a
brand. It wouldn't make business sense to abandon a profitable strategy only
to shift and scale to a non-profitable one.

~~~
rdouble
That is how most of the fashion sites start out. There's some point in time
where they find a desperate luxury goods manufacturer willing to give them a
deal, or meet a guy who inherited his family's shirt factory and wants to try
out something new, or they get lucky selling a few pieces of vintage clothing.
Then for a while, the site does very well.

Eventually they run out of high margin stuff to sell, because they literally
run out of the stuff (in the case of vintage clothing) or their suppliers
start raising their prices. Then they need to sell more stuff, which requires
more employees, and bigger warehouses, which continues to eat at the margins.

There's also many copy cat fashion sites, since between 2009-present "fashion
internet" seems to have been a trend for fresh MBA grads. I'm not really sure
how they get started, but I'm pretty confident they also don't make any money.

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kylebrown
This might be off-topic, but it reminded me of some recently uploaded
documentary footage of a 1996 LA teen subculture "Dirty Girls".[0]

0\. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3MxEHQk644>

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jongold
Nasty Gal are killing it - my girlfriend is totally obsessed with them.

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tantalor
How does this company compare to Rue La La? <http://www.ruelala.com/>

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leeny
Rue La La is a flash sale site (a la Gilt Groupe, Amazon's MyHabit, and so
on). Their inventory changes pretty quickly (something like 48 hours, I
think), and different brands are featured during each iteration.

NastyGal doesn't appear to have rolling inventory; rather it seems they have
relationships with some set of brands, but the brands themselves aren't front
and center. Moreover, NastyGal also appears to have its own brand, which
RueLaLa does not (though Gilt Groupe does have its own Gilt Home (ie
furniture) line).

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svantana
Interesting story, but I find the whole cinderella angle extremely tiresome.
Isn't cinderella about women dreaming about being courted by a rich man? Seems
to me there are plenty of rags-to-riches stories/legends that are better fits
- but then again, those are not about women...

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rdouble
"Cinderella Story" is now a pop phrase which simply means exceeded
expectations. It is most commonly used in sports. In this context it fits
perfectly.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella_(sports)>

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mstank
Here is a great fireside chat with Nasty Gal's CEO Sophia Amoruso
[http://video.pandodaily.com/t6t2/fireside-chat-with-nasty-
ga...](http://video.pandodaily.com/t6t2/fireside-chat-with-nasty-gal-ceo-
sophia-amoruso/)

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nsoun
Grig Gheorghiu, their VP of ops, just did a great Q&A:

[http://boundary.com/blog/2013/03/18/grig-gheorghiu-on-the-
mu...](http://boundary.com/blog/2013/03/18/grig-gheorghiu-on-the-murky-world-
of-devops/)

Yes, very hot company.

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lukeholder
This seems like advert for 'eBay pages'.

~~~
fizz_and_buzz
"Ms. Amoruso also outgrew eBay, which she said was a terrible platform to
start a business. Competitors started flagging Nasty Gal for breaking the
site’s rules by, for example, linking to Ms. Amoruso’s Myspace page. Fed up,
she decided it was time to start ShopNastyGal.com."

~~~
paulhauggis
It's not just this. Many users are terrible and will leave you negative
feedback based on what they are feeling that day, even if you did everything
right.

I bend over backwards for my customers and still get negatives. College
students seem to be the worst. If they don't get things exactly their way, you
get a negative.

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alseeger
that's true and a really interesting company.

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tantalor
The eBay misspelling trick is nothing new:
<http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ebay+mispelling>

~~~
Kiro
Worst use of lmgtfy ever?

