

Can Mushrooms Treat Depression? - gkop
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/opinion/sunday/can-mushrooms-treat-depression.html

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nalahal
As someone with depression, personally I wouldn't recommend mushrooms to
others in a similar situation. I've tried them once and it was a rather
uncomfortable experience. In fact, a quote from the acticle describes my
experience fairly well - "When suffering depression, people get stuck in a
spiral of negative thoughts and cannot get out of it". This does tend to
describe my thought process in general, but this was exacerbated on mushrooms.
I had little control over my thought process, which made me anxious, which
made the experience harder to deal with. Although, when considering certain
personal issues at the time which would normally cause me anxiety, they did
feel much less significant.

That said, I've heard many stories of people experiencing life changing
epiphanies from mushroom trips as described in the article, and I am intrigued
by articles like this and the science behind it. Perhaps my environment, or
the specific mushrooms I tried made it worse. Also, having tried them once and
come out the other end fine may make future experiences less uncomfortable - a
large part of what made it difficult was a concern that my mental state would
be permanently affected by the experience, and this was not the case. Still,
it makes me less inclined to try them again until I'm in a better mental
state.

For what it's worth, these were the variety of "magic truffles" which are
legal and readily obtainable from high street stores in Amsterdam, but as far
as I'm aware the active ingredient is the same psilocybin as other forms of
magic mushrooms. I wasn't on any medication at the time, though I have heard
of certain anti-depressants and other medication either having a negative
effect, or negating the effects of mushrooms entirely.

~~~
danmaz74
For serious treatment, the drug should be taken as part of a psychological
therapy - in the right setting, with the right preparation and assistance. As
a matter of fact, the author is advocating to make medical research easier,
not that people take it at random and hope for a miracle ;)

~~~
digi_owl
Yep. The problem right now is that everything is locked down because someone
somewhere may get some escapism out of it.

At the same time developing brains are fed all kinds of uppers and downers
because they react badly to an outdated educational system.

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jrapdx3
Seems like interest in potential beneficial effects of hallucinogens has been
rising. It's certainly true for ketamine, as it's being studied as a therapy
for treatment resistant depression. The results look promising but the jury is
still out re: satisfying FDA approval requirements.

As the article says, psilocybin could have favorable effects in depression,
possibly resembling results with ketamine. Other hallucingenics are often
mentioned in this regard, like LSD or mescaline. There have been reports of
utility of low dose THC for depression.

In discussions of potential value of any drug the pivotal issue is the
risk/benefit ratio. Hallucinogens have unmistakably caused adverse reactions.
Panic, psychosis, dissociative states have been observed often enough to
warrant a high level of caution in using such drugs.

Part of the problem is the randomness of bad reactions. It's usually difficult
to predict which users (or subsets of users) will endure adverse effects at a
particular drug dose. Drug interactions is another concern. A great deal of
study is necessary to sort out the parameters of (relatively) safe use.

~~~
cnrsvxz
There are a few non-hallucinogenic and non-sedative derivatives of ketamine
being studied at the moment as antidepressants. Anecdotes of their use seem to
be positive, but of course those should be taken with a grain of salt. See
LongeCity's Brain Health forum for some crazy threads relating to this.[0]

On another note, this summer I experimented with NSI-189[1] for depression to
great effect. It's a hippocampal neurogenic agent currently prepping for phase
2 trials. I found that its antidepressant effects over a one-month cycle were
remarkably similar to my single psilocybin experience a few years back.
Specifically, they both (or rather, I) exhibited two characteristics:

(a) "Illuminating" rather than the "dulling" of traditional antidepressants. A
feeling of irrational filters being lifted from all my senses and the
cognitive functions directly adjacent to them. It doesn't feel like a band-aid
like tricyclics and SSRIs do. It feels like a realization that the depression
is a lie, that it doesn't reflect the actual state of the world.

(b) Persistence of the effect long after the chemical was no longer in my
system. Where "long" was approximately two years for the psilocybin, and I'm
coming up on four months after cessation of the NSI-189 with not just steady
benefits but continuous improvement. This matches the results found in the
Phase 1b trial.[2]

Now I haven't gotten an MRI to see if my hippocampus has grown to an abnormal
size, like was found in an early mouse study, but my experience has made me
extremely optimistic for the next ten years of antidepressant research. I'm
fairly certain we'll be able to narrow down the exact mechanisms by which
psychedelics alleviate depression and isolate them from the permanent
destructive potential of most psychedelics.[3]

[0] [http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-
health/](http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-health/)

[1] It is currently not being sold, and its patent-holder Neuralstem is being
quite threatening toward would-be vendors. There is nothing illegal about
purchasing it, but it would be difficult for anyone in the US without indirect
access to a quality Asian synth lab and a domestic third party testing
facility.

[2] [http://smithonstocks.com/neuralstem-phase-1b-results-for-
nsi...](http://smithonstocks.com/neuralstem-phase-1b-results-for-nsi-189-are-
very-encouraging-but-it-is-early-days-cur-buy-4-38-for-paid-subscribers/)

[3] I should mention that though I'm comparing NSI-189 to traditional
psychedelics in this comment, it doesn't actually have any major immediate
effects. Common anecdotal effects include heightened taste and smell, back-of-
skull pressure/ache and mild parasthesia. A couple instances of major, painful
parasthesia in individuals with previous nerve damage. But no headspace, no
high, no rush, no immediate feeling that you're taking a drug at all, and the
antidepressant effects do not reveal themselves for at least a week.

~~~
atomical
I'm curious where your supply comes from. Are you a chemist?

~~~
cnrsvxz
No, there are various online communities for experimental, legal drug use,
each with their own themes and safety guidelines that depend on the users'
goals. Overseas labs are not too hard to come by, but language barriers and
repeated shoddy synthesis (see also: Alibaba) can raise the effective cost by
orders of magnitude. Then it's worth your while to get the sample
independently tested after importation. This, combined with significant
economies of scale, leads to group buys being a common method of acquiring
substances. One trusted person who has contacts and a history with known
quality labs (who often ask not to be revealed to the whole group, especially
if they're in Europe) is chosen to organize the money, make the purchase,
having preliminary testing done, repackage into each person's order, and ship
them the rest of the way.

I neglected to mention precisely how I acquired it because, as mentioned,
Neuralstem is not joking around. (It wasn't as a group buy.) They do not have
any existing treatments on the market and currently have just two in human
trials: NSI-189, an antidepressant and ostensibly nootropic, and NSI-566, a
stem cell treatment for ALS. It's not surprising that they're freaked out by
use of one of these treatments years before it could ever be approved as a
pharmaceutical.

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brookside
I tried Psilocybin recently, with intent to see what changes the experience
might make to my mood and mental outlook. My trip was quite uncomfortable, as
others have related. I'm glad I tried mushrooms, however. Upon return to this
astral plan I was immensely grateful for sanity and the little pocket of
warmth in time and space that is our existence. In the days since I have found
my mood to be better.

My Psilocybin trip was an almost terrifying experience that served as a good
reset. I will definitely consider repeating this on a periodic basis if
needed, being most respectful of the dark power these little fungi possess.

------
acd
They say two great products came out of Berkeley BSD and LSD

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discardorama
It is sad that most of such research (on psychoactives, etc.) is happening in
the UK, and not the US (which has a lot more resources). Our Drug War(TM) at
work.

Aside: "... Paul Expert at King’s College London ..." : this guy was born to
be a researcher. :-D

~~~
cnp
Actually, quite a bit of research is happening in the US, with Johns Hopkins
and NYU being at the lead.

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increment_i
Mushrooms are not for the faint of heart. Generally, they will cause extreme
anxiety in those who are naturally prone to it, possibly to the breaking point
-- especially if in a public or unfamiliar setting. However, the drug itself
is highly psychoactive and can truly lead to some amazing revelations about
life in general, that break through the shroud of depression.

~~~
hnnewguy
> _Generally, they will cause extreme anxiety in those who are naturally prone
> to it, possibly to the breaking point_

Generally? No.

I've taken and been around people who have taken mushrooms for over 15 years.
I still dabble on occasion. I've never seen or even heard of someone reaching
a "breaking point". This is not to say that it can't happen, but saying that
mushrooms will do it, generally, must be supported.

That said, mushrooms are no fooling around. If you have no experience with
"being high", and the altered mental state that that entails, I would never
recommend diving into multi-gram does of 'shrooms. Once you've had some
experience, it's much easier to tell yourself, "I'm high, this will pass.
Enjoy it."

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gregpilling
I tired them in Bali last year (they have been made illegal since then) and I
thought my mood was slightly changed for a few days. I did not get some large
effect, but there was some minor effect. Mostly I felt happily drunk.

I have battled depression for years, and while I would agree that there was
some minor uplift, it was not a major change in my case.

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namunu
The most interesting thing to me was the importance of ritual in the trials.
Bad experiences might be linked to a defficient or lacking framework-- the
power of expectation and psycho social cues perhaps being undervalued in all
sorts of treatments.

