
Review: The MacBook Pro is an expensive MacBook Air on the inside - AlexeyBrin
http://m.arstechnica.com/apple/2016/11/review-cheapest-2016-macbook-pro-is-good-but-its-missing-all-the-cool-stuff/
======
atourgates
> The Ugly: Really expensive, even in the context of past MacBook Pros.

I find this conclusion, and the article's discussion of Apple's current laptop
lineup, to be the most interesting part of the article.

In comparison to the 2015 13" MacBook pro, you get some minor hardware
updates, a bit of increased thinness, some changes to ports, and the honor of
paying an extra $200.

It doesn't seem like a very good value, especially when it's the bottom of the
lineup distinguished more by what's missing (touch bar, touchID and extra
ports) than what it adds to last year's model.

I was hoping that the marketplace would punish them, but if Schiller's
comments about the new MacBook Pro getting more orders than any previous pro
model are accurate, it looks like I'm in the minority.

~~~
bdon
The extra $200 is because the 2016 base model starts at 256GB disk instead of
128.

If you configure the 2015 model with 256GB the price is the same.

~~~
StillBored
Lest you failed to notice, the price of SSD's has been falling, right now you
can buy a top of the line 1TB SSD for ~$300, and lower end devices are
approaching $200.

So, this bucks the trend of the past 4 decades where the new models had more
storage for the same amount of money.

~~~
bdon
That's certainly the case, I'm just pointing out that price really isn't a
factor in buying the 2015 model over the 2016 one unless you specifically want
128GB disk.

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gnicholas
It is amazing that a review in Ars recommends—even for a subset of
users—getting a refurb last-gen model. But I give them credit for making this
honest assessment.

Just yesterday I was thinking that when I upgrade from my current laptop (the
recently-discontinued 11" MBA), it will likely be to a used 13" MBP. If money
and dongles were no object, I'd take the plunge on a new one. (But cost is a
consideration for me, and dongles is a consideration for everyone!)

~~~
ChrisLTD
I'm hoping my 2012 MBP lasts another 6 months so I can pick up one of these
machines from Apple’s refurbished store. $300 cheaper the new models look a
lot more compelling.

~~~
wh0car3s
If you're stateside you should check Microcenter. They usually have in stock
previous year MBAs or MBPs (new or refurb) - often on huge discounts.

~~~
ChrisLTD
I'll take a look. Thanks!

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nathanvanfleet
Everyone seems to either be hating it or hating the haters so far. But
honestly I am not biting much on this.

I have a 2013 MBP and I don't see much better performance with this machine,
and a lot of friction with the whole dongle thing. Apple went all the way with
their dongle love when I just don't see the utility. I am literally only
considering it because my computer is old so much that I fear of a hardware
failure. With the price I am not really excited to do it.

~~~
rhodysurf
2013 Macbook Pro really isn't old at all

~~~
jonknee
It used to be, but laptops have essentially stopped getting faster. Desktops
are innovating primarily with power hungry video cards for VR.

2010 to 2013 MacBook Pros changed a ton (Retina, dropped optical drive, got
loads faster thanks to more cores, etc etc).

~~~
astrodust
Desktop GPUs have been getting progressively faster, but the difference
between a new i7 6700K CPU and a 2011 vintage i7 2600K is about 30%. Unless
you're shelling out over $1K for your CPU alone there's not really a lot of
compelling reasons to upgrade.

Now if Intel started making more affordable six and eight core mobile and
desktop CPUs...

------
monkmartinez
This piece also captures the angst. The openly hostile acts of soldering ram,
and glueing batteries is something that kind of made me angry. Ok, I told
myself, maybe the device and OS will compensate for the fact that it is not
user serviceable anymore.

Nope, for the last 3 to 5 years OSX and now macOS software has been beta (at
best) on release day. They finally issued recalls for some older graphics
problems the "Pro" models had. All in all they have just iOS-ified everything.
Very gimmicky updates... nothing that really got me fired up.

This has all come to a head with the latest release of hardware. I don't need
a hands on to know 16gb isn't enough RAM. I don't need a hands on to know that
the touchbar isn't going to work for ME. I don't need a hands on to know that
dongle hell is coming. I really love the trackpad on the mac (one thing that
no windows pc can touch), but it looks like the STUPIDLY large trackpad is
going to have issues as well....

I do know that I can't stand the "apple" tax any longer. I am sick of not
being able to do "everything" on my computer because there isn't enough
power/ram/etc. I should have just run Linux VM's for development while keeping
Windows, I don't know... I haven't "gamed" in a long time, because it just
sucks on a mac (maybe that is a good thing for productivity?).

~~~
joeguilmette
So what's the problem? Buy a Windows laptop?

------
brandon272
> I don’t see the value you could get from an Air in 2012 or 2013 anywhere on
> that list.

This sums it up for me. Apple simply doesn't have any product in their Macbook
line that I consider to deliver even remotely acceptable value for money right
now. It's unfortunate.

~~~
falcolas
I'm pretty sure they expect former air consumers to migrate to the iPad pro
instead. Sure, it's less capable, but Apple seems to believe the iPad is good
enough for those not creating professional programs, movies or images.

~~~
monkmartinez
The iPad Pro is NOT a pro-level device. Turns out, that oversized iPhone apps
are not that great. Look at the latest numbers of iPad sales[1]. Everyone that
wants one already has one. Everybody else give zero-shits about the iPad.

[1][https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/26/iphone-ipad-and-mac-
sales-...](https://techcrunch.com/2016/07/26/iphone-ipad-and-mac-sales-are-
down-but-apple-only-cares-about-services-now/)

~~~
cableshaft
I would like to update my iPad Mini 1 since it seems like it should be so
ancient now (it's had 3 iterations since then), but dammit if the thing still
doesn't just work fine.

Yeah, it feels a little slow for some things now (especially browsing the
internet, can't seem to keep more than one or two tabs in memory), but it's
still super solid and gets the job done, and even still works with the vast
majority of apps and games.

I might have to soon to be able to iOS dev with the newest XCode, but that's
the only reason I have. I've owned that thing for almost 4 years now.

It's probably the most solid piece of hardware I've ever owned.

------
scblock
Excuse me? Unlike the MacBook Air it has a retina display and Thunderbolt 3
ports. Seems like this conclusion was written first, then a narrative was
written to fit it. Or the writer of the headline was not the writer of the
article, and just made something up.

More broadly (this article and beyond) all the dongle complaining is going to
sound pretty backwards in the context of today + 2 years.

~~~
et-al
For me and many others, it's about pushing the MBP towards more portability at
the cost of power.

Laptop manufacturers traditionally have had two lines: a desktop replacement
and an ultraportable one. Prior to the Retina MacBook: it was the MacBook Air
and MacBook Pro. Thinkpads had the X-series and T-series.

Now, Apple has released a MacBook Pro that's not quite the total desktop
replacement while requiring us to carry a bunch of adapters. I've mentioned
this in another thread, but had Apple just called this recent release an
update on the MacBook, most people would probably have been enthralled. Yay!
More USB-C ports, a laptop you could type on your lap, and more processing
power!

For all of us criticizing the new release, it's not because we don't care for
portability or USB-C, but because Apple has hindered the user experience for
existing Pro customers. Dongles and adapters are mental lines item that a
professional should not have to be concerned with. We want a laptop that can
handle it all and we just want Cook et al. to make the MacBook _Pro_ again.

~~~
scblock
Mostly I agree, except they're not sacrificing a lot of power compared to
competitors, with the exception of not using certain power hungry components
(GPU, RAM). Apple is clearly moving, as you have noted, to ALL portable
computers prioritizing portability over raw power. This is something I agree
with, and something others don't, but it's not a "disappointment" as fact so
much as a difference in philosophy.

As a professional GIS user and engineering drawing reviewer I theoretically
should have opted for a more powerful laptop to replace my work machine this
fall, but instead went with the smallest, lightest machine my company was able
to provide that still met my day to day usage needs. I travel a lot and
portability was high priority. For me, Apple is on the right side on the
portability/power curve.

~~~
et-al
You're right, it's a difference in philosophy (and was emphasized in today's
Job's email post[0]). Everyone brings a different set of needs to a laptop,
and for you, it's worked out alright.

However, I do feel they've left a lot of professional users out in the cold as
they try to capture more of the consumer market. How this affects their brand
and goodwill remains to be seen; especially when people are already paying top
dollar.

[0]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12864727](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12864727)

------
nashashmi
I have been trying to figure out how will Apple survive this crisis and
someone's comment mentioning thinness makes me actually get the whole purpose
of this MBP release.

This MBP has two immense features: 1) the introduction of a touch interface;
and 2) enough thinness to make the MBP mainstream instead of a high-end pro
device.

(They could not pack computing power AND make the MBP thinner).

The next version will be a simple hardware update (cpu, gpu, memory, etc.) but
this laptop will now be the defining trend of things to come. More touch, more
slim, more mainstream.

The rest of the industry (e.g. professionals) will have to rely on the
extension port (usb-c) for everything else.

So stop whining that Apple is abandoning its core customers. Because it is
abandoning them. And the future that MBP is taking on is for an entirely
different set of customers. (Deja Vu anyone?)

~~~
nyolfen
>This MBP has two immense features: 1) the introduction of a touch interface;
and 2) enough thinness to make the MBP mainstream instead of a high-end pro
device.

is there anyone on earth who actually cares about a few mm of thinness? this
angle has always boggled my mind, i've never in my life thought 'boy, this
laptop sure is great, but i wish it were _thinner_ '

~~~
joeguilmette
I do? I'm a professional user and I used a MBA for years bc I travel a lot. I
had a VM, Sketch, Illustrator, and lots of other power hungry tools running.
Last year I switched to a MacBook bc I couldn't handle the shitty MBA screen.

It worked, but I'm excited I can now afford, in terms of bad space, a more
powerful laptop (with Touch ID, a larger screen, retina, more RAM, faster
processor, bigger HD, bigger trackpad, better keyboard, touch bar).

I'm very excited for this release.

------
tn13
Honestly I have always loved 2013 15'' MBP with SSD and as a developer I don't
see that changing.

~~~
jpalomaki
People complain, but eventually they will anyways buy another Macbook Pro,
because that's the machine the love. The physical outfit, display, operating
system, speed, the way it just wakes up when you open the lid, touchpad and so
on. It is easy to find compelling alternatives when you are just looking at
the specs, but it is hard to believe those in love with their MacBooks would
be as happy with any other brand.

------
Scarbutt
Click bait title? the air doesn't have the retina display, which is an
important differentiator.

~~~
saghm
It does say "on the inside", which at least to me implies things like the
processor and RAM and not the resolution of the screen (although I suppose
opinions on this could differ)

------
Scarbutt
A bit off-topic, has anyone replace their desktop setup with just a 15inch
MBP(not external monitors) for the sake of simplifying things, how was your
experience?

------
uptown
I'm seeking a replacement for my early 2011 MBP (retro-fitted with more RAM,
an SSD as the primary disk and a 1tb swapped in-place of the DVD drive). I'd
like to upgrade for a Retina display and something faster and lighter than
2011 parts, but this refresh left me questioning whether buying this
generation will be a mistake given all the blowback. Seems they may rectify
some of this in 2017. So I can't wait - but buying a 2015 model seems like it
may be the better value to avoid dongle hell and swapping out multiple power
bricks for the new connector.

------
dba7dba
Not 1 samsung part in ifixit article.

------
nom
The real question is, does it slice my cheese as well as the Air does? I like
it thin.

------
nlh
I first read the title as "The $1,499,2016 MacBook Pro" and thought -- wow,
things certainly have escalated in the world of Apple's premium pricing
strategy.

~~~
mamon
Yeah, I read the same and I was expecting a story about some Arab sheikh
ordering gold-plated, diamond-encrusted MacBook Pro :)

