

Ask HN: Review my web app? Trying to get out of slump. - fchollet
http://www.wysp.ws/

======
thejerz
Your practice engine idea is really smart, but it isn't at all immediately
apparent upon visiting the site. At first, your website looks like any
"portfolio site" (deviant art, dribble, etc). To make the practice engine the
focus of the website, I would consider a new homepage design that focuses on
the "learn to draw" aka "practice engine" aspect of the website, as opposed to
a portfolio showcase. There are lots of portfolio sites, but very few websites
that teach you how to draw on a structured learning path. It is a great idea,
stick with it!

~~~
fchollet
Thank you! So, are you suggesting to send any new visitor to a landing page
describing the site's features, with a focus on the practice engine?

~~~
tomblomfield
Yes, and include screenshots & explanation of the practice engine.

Also, the practice engine is cool but feels incomplete. There are random lines
between body parts - I'm sure they are there for a reason, but I don't know
what that reason is.

~~~
colinhowe
Whenever I've looked at drawing tutorials they give stages. Just tried the
hands tutorial. I can see what circles and bits to be drawing first and why
they are there but only because I've done other tutorials. More steps and
explanation would be good!

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nanijoe
It's not immediately apparent what your site does. Instead of the cryptic
"unlike other websites, wysp is not about showcase etc" , can you just write
something as straight forward as "Learn how to draw" or " Let us help you
improve your pencil skills" or whatever message directly tells your target
audience what it is exactly you do

~~~
hippo33
I completely agree with this. I think using plain English and a couple of
concrete examples at the top of the page would help immensely.

I didn't know what this meant, for example: "Wysp is a journey to realize your
full creative potential."

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kevinconroy
Agree with other comments that at first use it's not clear what the site is
for, but shows a lot of potential. Have you done any A/B testing? If not,
check out <https://www.optimizely.com/>

Also, are you sending email to users whenever they get comments? Emails to
people who sign up but never post anything? Welcome emails to people who sign
up telling them what to do? Create sets of automated email campaigns and it
will dramatically improve your usage stats. Articles from Patrick trend on HN
all the time, but here's a link in case you missed it (+1 from my professional
experience): <http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/05/31/can-i-get-your-email/>

Best of luck to you!

~~~
roninresearcher
Thank you for the insight and link for email campaigns! Addresses a lot of
biases i had about them.

~~~
kevinconroy
Don't let bad marketing give email a bad name.

Yes, I too have had my biases. If you do them well, then email can be
incredible effective and welcomed by users. It's all about how you target,
segment, and position yourself in a genuine, authentic, and helpful way. (The
"bad marketing" emails tend to forget that last part.)

------
georgeecollins
I agree with other comments that this looks like a portfolio site while your
USP is teaching.

I tried your tool and I didn't really understand why it taught me anything. It
put up a picture, waited for me to draw in your limited drawing tool, then
asked me to evaluate myself. I just scribbled and gave myself four stars an
everything continued happily.

It seems like the practice engine lacks useful feedback, but maybe that is a
feature I would get if I signed in?

~~~
fchollet
How would you expect that useful feedback to be implemented?

The self-rating system currently in place in meant as a guide for the spaced
repetition system. If you give yourself unrealistic ratings, it will only
result in a less optimized learning experience...

~~~
georgeecollins
But then I don't understand how the "teaching" app is really teaching me. It's
just telling me to draw a set of pictures. Why does that have to be an app?
Couldn't you just have 20 images to practice drawing as an HTML page?

~~~
fchollet
The value added compared to a list of pictures is:

\- spaced repetition engine: the pictures that are served to you are
customized depending on how you did on previous sessions, so as to lead to an
optimal learning rate

\- timer: motivates the user and turns the exercise in a sort of game

\- asking for self-evaluation: forces the user to go over their output and
self-feedback

How do you think I could made this value more evident? Or do you think that
not a strong enough value proposition?

------
some1else
I love the concept. In the past, I've taken part in many communities and
forums that had an immensely positive effect on my progress in learning to
design graphics and music.

One thing you can improve instantly, that will probably reduce the bounce
rate, is the landing page copy. Make it very clear what your product does.

Otherwise, I think you may be limiting the users and yourself too much by
enforcing the time-trial and web-based drawing tool. It's probably quite
engaging for those who dig in in front of their PC with a graphics tablet in
hand. But it didn't work out for me on the MacBook trackpad or the iPad.

If it was my MVP, I'd just let people upload the image -- no matter how they
made it -- and focus on community building. 9 times out of ten, the thing that
helped me improve was advice from a peer or mentor.

You want to have an environment where people aren't scared of posting because
of unsubstantiated negative reviews. But you need to have members that are
capable of constructive criticism. Otherwise you just end up with praise and
flattery, which belongs in a showcase more than it does in a Practice Engine.

Goood luck! I'll take another look at the app when I'm at a desktop computer.

~~~
fchollet
Thank you for your insight! A new landing page is in preparation : )

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pemmigiwhoseit
Positives: 1. Generally great idea. 2. Very nice css, looks beautiful. 3.
Really like the blank page section - it really encourages people to get
involved. (make this more prominent). Advice/Criticism: Just looked at it for
a few minutes but here are my first impression thoughts: 1\. You say on home
page it is for practice and personal progress, but all I see is other people's
are that is way better than mine. 2. You feature the practice engine but it
only has two courses, and feels incomplete. (plus it looks like you are asking
for my money before you convince me I should use your site / before I even
fully understand the purpose). Maybe try to feature your best feed back
coupled with the piece instead of your most popular art. Add more classes and
make a couple of them (more obviously) free. Encourage me to upload art from
the start - right now it feels like I should focus on other peoples art
instead of my own.

~~~
fchollet
Thank you for your insight. Very useful!

------
etherealG
focus on what sets you apart, the practice engine. on your homepage although
just under the nav you have text explaining this, people are generally more
visual as I'm sure you know, try using something more visual to explain how
this practice engine works maybe?

by way of an example, <http://www.sublimetext.com/> has a set of features that
really make it stand out as a text editor. they could be written out in text,
but it's hard to understand what they are when described in words. instead the
author has put some animated pictures showing the actual features in use. this
presentation instantly shows how you would use those features and most people
understand right away where the benefit is.

i'm not sure animated would work for yours, but perhaps a swapping image
showing a particular artists progress over a few weeks/months.

just an idea, hope it helps. 1 other tiny thing that got to me, the top nav
text isn't vertically centered in the space. it's a small gripe, but sometimes
little details can make the difference, especially on a site for artists.

edit: another thing that comes to mind, you feature art on the homepage in a
similar style to a portfolio. including what's new or popular. what if instead
you featured the artist, and then change between pictures of their progress up
to that point. you could highlight the learning aspect by showing progress of
each artist you feature on the homepage, rather than just 1 piece of art by
that artist.

~~~
fchollet
Thank you for your great feedback! I particularly like the idea of showing the
progress of an artist on the landing page, that would be quite powerful.
Thanks!

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wisty
You have 2 courses. The first prominently displays $2.00 price, and _then_
says "$2.00 (one session free!)". The second is free.

But when I scanned it, all I saw was "$2.00", not the freebies.

Maybe style the buttons, so they display what is free?

~~~
fchollet
A more prominent, colorful "free!" label? Most definitely a good idea. Thank
you!

~~~
wisty
Also, a "first session free" label. Maybe CSS style the button? Though patio
can tell you horror stories about "great" changes like this which decreased
sales, as he didn't test on IE (which simply didn't show his button).

------
fchollet
I have a pretty high churn rate, so I've recently been rolling new features to
try to stay afloat. User feedback is positive, but the usage stats aren't.

Any insight as to what I could be doing wrong?

~~~
thejerz
What kind of specific feedback are you getting? And what do your usage stats
specifically look like?

~~~
fchollet
Usage: I have a very restricted core of regular users. Most new users quit
after a few days or a week (I suppose the app did not deliver on the reason
why they joined the website in the first place?). When contacted, these users
basically never reply. Paid users also never reply when contacted for
feedback.

The spontaneous feedback I'm getting is positive but unhelpful, in the lines
of "this site is great, love the concept", etc.

Any idea? What's your first impression?

~~~
StavrosK
I'm in a similar position to you, I'm bootstrapping an analytics service and
need feedback. I'd be happy to give you a free account and help you with your
analytics so you can figure out what's wrong with your churn.

Send me an email, if you like, the service is <http://www.instahero.com>.

~~~
fchollet
Email sent : )

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devgutt
You could disable user-scalable in meta tag viewport. Painting Application
didn't work in iPad.

~~~
fchollet
Ah yes, I haven't added touch support yet. I'll get to it!

