

Open Source, Windows and Teaching Python to New Developers - ch0wn
http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/08/open-source-windows-and-teaching-python.html

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jinushaun
As a .NET developer on a Macbook Pro, I share his frustration. I code .NET at
work, but live in Ruby and Node.js land when I'm at home. It's just so much
easier to get git, svn, Ruby, Python or Node.js up and running on OSX than
Windows. The only thing Windows does better/easier is WAMP thanks to the
proliferation of free all-in-one installers. Windows is probably why PHP
remains so popular. (I wonder how many companies develop PHP on Windows and
deploy to cheap Linux hosts)

As for the tools, Visual Studio feels like a walled garden and I'm too scared
to edit the defaults because I might break something. Why did it create so
many files and reference all these DLLs? Do I need all of them?! How do I edit
this web.config file? Compare this with Rails where I know exactly why it
creates the files that it does and have no fear in going in a ripping out the
defaults and deleting files.

While you're at it, let's talk community. The difference between the OSS and
Windows developer community is striking. On one side, you have passionate
Rubyists going on and on about how Ruby, Gems, etc are all so great. The same
for Python and Node.js. These guys also code in their spare time and are
active on GitHub. On the other side, you have the stereotypical .NET
programmer who only codes from 9-5 making boring "enterprise" LOB software and
only uses technology from MS. You know them, the programmers who only started
using jQuery because it now comes bundled with ASP.NET. Programmers who
probably can't even create a .NET project from scratch and build on the
command line, but rely on the voodoo magic of File->New->Project and
Build->Build Solution (F6) in Visual Studio. Does MS really want to woo these
developers?

When all the hobbyist programmers that can't afford Visual Studio ($550+) or
like .NET jumps ship to OSX/Linux, learns _free_ open source tools and creates
_billion dollar_ startups on the OSS stack, MS is _fucked._ They lose
developer mind share. The next Facebook or Google won't be made on Windows
systems and MS will be left supporting dinosaurs. Windows and VS doesn't
matter in a world where we live in a web browser. Developers can now develop
on Linux and 'deploy' to Windows via Chrome and Firefox.

I think MS is finally seeing the light. NuGet is a trojan horse of change in
the .NET world if MS lets it. We might actually start seeing a true open
source community around .NET technology.

~~~
shriphani
_While you're at it, let's talk community. The difference between the OSS and
Windows developer community is striking. On one side, you have passionate
Rubyists going on and on about how Ruby, Gems, etc are all so great. The same
for Python and Node.js. These guys also code in their spare time and are
active on GitHub. On the other side, you have the stereotypical .NET
programmer who only codes from 9-5 making boring "enterprise" LOB software and
only uses technology from MS. You know them, the programmers who only started
using jQuery because it now comes bundled with ASP.NET. Programmers who
probably can't even create a .NET project from scratch and build on the
command line, but rely on the voodoo magic of File- >New->Project and
Build->Build Solution (F6) in Visual Studio. Does MS really want to woo these
developers? _

It is not impossible to be creative using the .Net stack:
<http://channel9.msdn.com/coding4fun/blog>

From this post I gauge that you're approaching .Net from a overly webbish
perspective. .Net is more than that. From a computer science perspective, it
is so beautiful, Linq is so sweet - I feel like hitting Java with a stick now.

Also, here is what you can do with the .Net stack:

-> Netduino (using the .Net micro framework) -> Apps on win -> A full-feature ML dialect with a very solid vm. -> Script# is a c# to js compiler so you can create js in vs. -> WP7 -> Robotics studio

Also, express editions of VS are free. You don't need to shell out $550 if you
want to get started coding - this is a myth that IMO needs a solid myth-
busting.

Also, the lineup of badass devices that you can code for using this stack is
bigger than anything out on the market - Kinect for instance - nobody even in
the near future can potentially produce a competing device and if you want to
base a startup around ruling the living room, I think the kinect should factor
in - everyone I see using it is blown away when they are able to say "xbox
pause" and get their netflix to pause.

Edit : formatting

------
sid0
What licensing restrictions exactly does Visual Studio Express have?

~~~
bendmorris
Apparently none: [http://stackoverflow.com/questions/86562/what-is-missing-
in-...](http://stackoverflow.com/questions/86562/what-is-missing-in-the-
visual-studio-2008-express-editions/86614#86614)

