
Dear Startups, Lobster is the new Comic Sans - ericskiff
http://5in5nyc.com/2012/05/31/dear-startups-lobster-is-the-new-comic-sans
======
gyardley
Oy. Comic Sans isn't problematic because everyone uses it, it's problematic
because it's a bad font. The kerning alone is reason enough not to use it.

<http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/why-you-hate-comic-sans/>

By this author's logic we should all stop using Helvetica, too - it's way too
common.

~~~
powrtoch
Lobster and Comic Sans are both highly stylized font-faces, Helvetica is not.
It's okay for Helvetica to be common because it doesn't scream "Hey look at
me, I'm Helvetica!"

When non-stylized things become very common, it's usually because they're good
all around choices: their popularity advances the field. When extremely
stylized things become very common, it typically leads to embarrassment down
the road.

In music for example, it's now very common to have the drums in the center of
the mix. This is the default because it makes sense. You only notice the
panning of the drums when it's something else. In the eighties it became
extremely common to use almost nothing but synths, and to have the snare drum
drenched in reverb. You listen back to eighties material now, and _at best_
you appreciate the campiness of these things. Mostly they seem like a weird
obsession that suddenly gripped the whole industry and warped everything to
come out of it for a decade. The modern day equivalent of course is Autotune.

~~~
tptacek
Grotesque sans were uncommon before the (say) 60s, and were very stylized for
the time. You just don't notice that because we've been accustomed to them for
so long, and because they are very effective for their purpose.

The parent comment is correct. Comic Sans isn't just stylized; it's a stylized
face designed for a very particular purpose (as a stand-in for the hand
lettering in comic books). And the problem with Comic Sans isn't that it's
_overused_. It's that it's used in inappropriate places.

There is nothing wrong with making safe, popular choices in typefaces.
Designers may gripe about how cliched Gotham is, but Gotham works. Comic Sans
virtually never works. This post does not make a case that Lobster never
works.

~~~
powrtoch
> Grotesque sans were uncommon before the (say) 60s, and were very stylized
> for the time.

Source?

Wikipedia sayeth about Helvetica:

"The aim of the new design was to create a neutral typeface that had great
clarity, no intrinsic meaning in its form, and could be used on a wide variety
of signage."

There's a history of sans-serifs (with emphasis on grotesques) here
[http://www.linotype.com/en/795/thesansseriftypefaces.html?PH...](http://www.linotype.com/en/795/thesansseriftypefaces.html?PHPSESSID=0641f83aea23fabe3c6f41f77198c82e)
that seems to suggest they had caught on pretty well by the 20s.

~~~
tptacek
Best I can do:

[http://www.freddesign.co.uk/2010/04/archive/the-
differences-...](http://www.freddesign.co.uk/2010/04/archive/the-differences-
between-akzidenz-univers-helvetica-and-arial/)

... which suggests that Akzidenz didn't come into modern use until the '50s.

------
dandelany
Lobster isn't bad, it's just overused at the moment. I might instead say that
Lobster is the new Gotham, which has been overused as a header font since
Obama used it in his 2008 presidential campaign (see [http://flip-
design.blogspot.com/2011/01/gotham-most-overused...](http://flip-
design.blogspot.com/2011/01/gotham-most-overused-best-font-in-world.html)).

~~~
mnicole
Lobster is bad. Bello is bad. They're bad because they are ill-designed
typefaces that leave much to be desired in the realm of readability and just
the general aesthetic. They're display fonts that you can't compare to
something like Gotham that can be used as display, headline or body.

Saying Gotham is overused is like saying Arial, Tahoma, Verdana are overused
for web. If it is clean, visible at a distance and generic looking enough not
to be annoying, it's hard to say it is overused, much like Helvetica.

Note: I say this as a designer that sees Lobster and Bello used (almost
literally) hundreds of times a day in various capacities, a lot like Museo
back in the day (yuck). Not sure if it is because they're Google fonts or if
one startup used it and therefore every company had to use it, but in most
situations they're the completely wrong type to use and when you see them,
it's usually a sign of indolence/ignorance or lack of a real designer.

~~~
studiofellow
What you're saying is that Lobster, Bello, and Museo offend your sensibilities
and are used frequently. That doesn't mean they are of poor quality. Bad
choices? Maybe. Bad typeface designs? No.

~~~
mnicole
Everything's subjective to a point, but when it doesn't scale and people are
using them for tiny app logos and subheadings, sensibility has nothing to do
with it. Not to mention these fonts are generally used in conjunction with
some pretty terrible layer or CSS effects.

~~~
studiofellow
Agreed--in many of these cases, people need education about how to properly
use display faces.

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sp332
I really don't understand this rant. Lobster is a title font, not a body font.
Also unlike Comic Sans, it's actually pretty nice. The argument seems to be
that Lobster is "overplayed" which is not only a snobbish, whiny thing to say
but completely ignores the fact that Helvetica, Times New Roman, Arial,
Georgia, etc. are used much more often. In fact you wouldn't notice Lobster at
all except that it replaces the Arial you're used to seeing.

~~~
ericskiff
Ouch :)

My point is largely that Lobster has a much more defined and recognizable look
than classic "Sans" fonts like Arial and Helvetica and "Serif" fonts like
Times and Georgia.

The look is recognizable enough that it evokes comparison to other sites,
which you may want to consider. It can also break down the fourth wall between
your site and it's viewers if they recognize the font. They go "oh, that's
lobster, one of google's free fonts" instead of "nice logo" which, again might
not be what you're after.

~~~
tptacek
Professional designers can spot Gotham instantly, and will make fun of you for
using it in a logotype. The relevance of that to a web app developer is zero.

~~~
Pheter
Why is Gotham a bad choice for logotypes?

~~~
tptacek
It's not.

~~~
Pheter
Ok, why would professional designers make fun of someone for using Gotham in a
logo type?

~~~
tptacek
Because it is very widely used.

~~~
Pheter
That's a ridiculous reason to make fun of someone for!

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jakejake
Lobster may be an overused font of the moment, but it doesn't have the
pedigree of Comic Sans. Not even close.

Once Lobster has shown up consistently on PTA meeting itineraries, junior high
pep-rally announcements and yard-sale flyers for about 15 years then _maybe_
that font will be able to compare itself to Comic Sans.

------
georgemcbay
I'll throw in my two cents on the "Lobster is the new... XYZ" by chucking out
Papyrus. They are both highly-stylized fonts that are fine on their own merits
but highly overrused within a certain niche (Papyrus for anything supposedly
'holistic', Lobster for anything supposedly 'startup').

Now we just need an "Avatar"-sized hugely commercial startup to use Lobster to
finally run it into the ground.

~~~
michaelbuckbee
You mentioned Avatar, which chose Papyrus, narrowly missing Trajan the movie
font -

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t87QKdOJNv8>

------
pikewood
I'd compare Lobster more to Papyrus (<http://www.papyruswatch.com>) and
Copperplate (<http://ihatecopperplate.blogspot.com/>) rather than Comic Sans.

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tylermenezes
... said the company with the awful trying-to-be-hip design.

~~~
tokenizer
Looks like the most simplest wordpress template to me. I'd appreciate any
thought over no thought when it comes to design.

~~~
ericskiff
Hahaha, touche. The 5in5NYC design needs some serious work :) It's absolutely
on my todo.

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cpeterso
Comic Serif: <http://idsgn.org/posts/comic-sans-comic-serif/>

~~~
jQueryIsAwesome
Nothing beats 'I hate comic sans': <http://www.dafont.com/i-hate-comic-
sans.font>

------
jack-r-abbit
_We will look back at our designs and sites years from now and go..._ "What
happened to 90% of those sites?" :)

~~~
jamesbritt
<http://www.killersites.com/killerSites/>

And yet, in its time, this was the shit.

Let's pour one out for the single-pixel GIF ...

~~~
ajlburke
Not to mention 'blockquote' for horizontal padding and hundred other dirty
little tricks.

I couldn't help noticing, though, that the page loaded _wicked_ fast. Can't
say I would mind it if more of the web was still that efficient.

------
studiofellow
If anything, Lobster is the new FF Dax. Dax and its siblings were the popular
startup branding typefaces a few years back.

And, Comic Sans is not a terrible typeface. It's just terrible for almost
every application, except for comic book lettering.

Still, I fail to see why this is a problem. Design trends happen.

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davecap1
Lobster is a nice, versatile, _trendy_ typeface. What's wrong with that?

~~~
ChuckMcM
Nothing at all, and there was nothing wrong with Comic Sans either. However it
drives my friends who aspire to be designers into frothing fits of rage.

It was explained to me this way, "Chuck lets say that bubble sorts and bloom
filters were these versatile algorithms that worked really well on a few
things, but a bunch of cut-n-paste programmers started using them for every
program they wrote, hello world with a bubble sort and a bloom filter, a
temperature monitor with a bubble sort and a bloom filter, a file system with
a bubble sort and a bloom filter, wouldn't it drive you NUTS?"

And I have to admit when I'm being honest with myself that folks who program
'cook book' style (which is to say they re-use code that kinda works and then
bodge it into shape with a hack or two) do rub me the wrong way.

Apparently this is how designers feel about things like Comic Sans and the
four box table layout and the any number of things that people do to put
together web sites that the creator enjoys, but are not actually designed.

~~~
untog
I think the larger point there is "does any of that matter"? I don't think it
does. It's possible to be a lazy programmer and a lazy designer and still be
entirely successful. Understandable that it irritates programmers and
designers, but it's a fact of life.

~~~
ericskiff
I completely agree :) There's a portion of this that is tongue in cheek, and I
doubt we will actually change Framey (our own site which uses Lobster in the
logo) at this point.

Really, I just wanted to raise it in people's consciousness so it's a
consideration when you're choosing the font for your next project.

I think we're right at the threshold where powerusers (and tech blog authors)
will start seeing Lobster and think "Ah. generic startup font. This was thrown
together in a weekend."

Sometimes that's just fine, but it's not always what you want your wordmark to
communicate.

------
sageikosa
Comic Sans makes me remember I have a slight astigmatism.

Lobster makes me want to buy some soup, or order a la carte. Well, at least I
don't cringe looking at it.

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LoonyPandora
The problem is its overuse, not it's qualities as a typeface. Comic Sans is
not a bad typeface, it was merely overused and became a cliche. Lobster is
well down that same path.

~~~
gyardley
Comic Sans is a _terrible_ typeface. Frequency of use has nothing to do with
it.

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kenrikm
Lobster is a decent font however it's way, way overused. Just please for the
love of god don't use it in your logo (Some YC companies have) at best it's
going to look generic.

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stevewillows
In Vancouver (and most likely everywhere else) Bleeding Cowboy is smothering
'trendy' salons and other related signage.

Maybe it's time we have graphic design as a licensed trade.

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pg_bot
Pacifico is the new Lobster. <http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/pacifico>

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acoyfellow
I'm so glad someone pointed this out, but it's horribly ironic that the design
of the blog and the header on there are god-awful.

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Kluny
Fuuuu now I'm seeing it everywhere. Thanks...

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megablast
It is a lot nicer to read than comic sans.

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adangit
Title should read: Dear Codecademy, Lobster is the new Comic Sans.

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gringomorcego
I spent a minute before clicking that link trying to figure out wtf it meant.

All I could think of was how serving lobster to your employees is considered
the new comic sans. An interesting world to think about, if I may say so.

