
John Lasseter taking a leave of absence amid reports of inappropriate behavior - rmason
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/21/pixars-john-lasseter-taking-a-six-month-leave-of-absence-amid-reports-of-inappropriate-behavior/
======
briankelly
Disappointed to hear this after I just finished reading Creativity, Inc. by Ed
Catmull (Pixar's main founder and graphics pioneer) which attributes Pixar's
continued success mostly to a culture of extreme candor and honesty...
Considering how long this was an issue I guess some things are too good to be
true.

~~~
digdig
I worked at Pixar for three years back in the early 2010s, and that book is
mostly hot air. There was not a culture of extreme candor or honesty, at least
not in the department that writes all the core software.

~~~
rootbear
I still haven't read it, but I really need to. I was in the Studio Tools group
in the late 90s and thought that group functioned pretty well. I also never
heard anything about John behaving badly, although it was generally
acknowledged that he was a big kid and had to be tutored on things like good
female characters. Reading this news about John has made me very sad. I wonder
now if any of my female former coworkers were the subjects of unwanted
attention from John. Sigh...

~~~
digdig
> female former coworkers

I didn't hear anything about this through the grapevine, but then again Tools
was probably 95% male at the time.

> I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s

Pour one out for menv! That was fun software to work on.

~~~
gt_
OK I’m drooling reading comments from people who worked on that software at
that time. Sounds like such a blast.

~~~
rootbear
I (mostly) loved working at Pixar. They have some of the smartest people I've
ever met there. I'd love to say I worked on some amazing, cutting edge
features of the animation software, but honestly, I think the most important
thing I did was to update the code base from K&R C to ANSI C. It was
excruciatingly tedious work and took forever, but it was a necessary pre-
condition to using C++ in future components.

------
Santosh83
Either looking up to someone or holding them in contempt are very binary
positions. People are complex. One can admire a person for the good they do
and criticise and oppose them for the deliberate bad things they indulge in. I
mean... none of us are purely black or white...

~~~
jdoliner
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere
insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them
from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts
through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece
of his own heart?

\- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I'm reminded of this quote every time another one of these scandals breaks.

~~~
aaron-lebo
With these scandals, it really is simple: don't sexually harass or assault
others. Most of us manage.

~~~
westoncb
Come on. Even finding a definition of sexual harassment which people can agree
on is notoriously difficult. Add to that the fact our society continues to
push the idea that the men which women 'really want' are aggressive in
initiating sexual situations. A man who does something as timid as asking
whether he may kiss a girl can assure himself of inadequacy. (Not that there
aren't plenty of exceptions to our media supporting this idea—but it's still
implied pervasively. And _some_ of it probably is just human nature.)

That said, even if it's not clear exactly where the line is—it's pretty easy
to see that certain actions would be far across it, and that's largely what's
come up in recent allegations. Though I don't think _all_ of them have been
super clear cut. 'Simple' is too strong here.

~~~
rayiner
> Add to that the fact our society continues to push the idea that the men
> which women 'really want' are aggressive in initiating sexual situations

This is a big part of the problem. These sexual harassment allegations are
almost entirely arising in contexts where sex should be off the table.
Society’s expectations of aggressive male behavior are entirely irrelevant.

~~~
coldtea
> _These sexual harassment allegations are almost entirely arising in contexts
> where sex should be off the table._

Humans are not Vulcan-style compartmentalizing creatures, and no rule can stop
love (and lust, contrary to puritanical religious-derived beliefs, lust is
also ok), etc 100% from emerging. Tons of very happy marriages and
relationships started in professional settings.

~~~
icebraining
Parent wrote sex, not love. You can't stop love (or lust), but you can choose
how you act on them. For example, by removing yourself from the context where
that is inappropriate.

~~~
SeanDav
One of the parent posts mentioned that it is difficult to even agree what
constitutes sexual harassment, so difficult to know what to act on or how to
act in all circumstances.

Some consider a hug sexual harassment, some consider touching a knee. What
about putting your hand on a person's back? Does it make a difference what
part of their back, if so exactly how and where?

Sexual harassment should be far more about intention rather than the specific
part of the body touched (excluding the obvious no-go areas of genitals and
breasts). Generally you should be allowed 1 strike, for mis-reading signals.

In a society where men are expected to initiate contact, this is a fraught
situation.

It is not a simple answer.

~~~
icebraining
No, sorry, I don't get it at all. Stop trying to read "signals" and get
people's actual consent before touching them. It's not difficult or
complicated.

~~~
SeanDav
Not sure what you mean - I have been touched by male and female colleagues
numerous times. Not once was it sexual, it was just people being people. Are
you suggesting that they ask my permission every time before touching my arm
or shoulder or slapping me on the back?

Can you imagine the following scene:

"Gee John, you did a great job there, I would like to shake your hand, or even
pat your back (only near the shoulder mind you and no lower than a line formed
by the bottom of your shoulder blades). Do you think that would be
permissible? I want to reassure you that this touch will not be sexual in any
way."

~~~
icebraining
A handshake is a good example: when you go give one to someone, you don't
actually touch them, you extend your hand and wait for their explicit (if non-
verbal) consent.

As for patting backs, do avoid doing so. Many of us don't like it even if it's
totally non-sexual.

~~~
SeanDav
> _" As for patting backs, do avoid doing so. Many of us don't like it even if
> it's totally non-sexual."_

...and many of us do like being patted on the back (non-condescending of
course).

Perhaps in the future, we will all have to work in an environment where no
touching of any sort is allowed, ever, but I can't help thinking that would be
a step backwards.

~~~
coldtea
Maybe we can have two office sections, one for touch-me-nots, and one for less
sensitive people, like smoking and non-smoking sections.

------
mozumder
Rashida Jones has given a response denying the allegations:
[http://www.eonline.com/news/895644/rashida-jones-denies-
leav...](http://www.eonline.com/news/895644/rashida-jones-denies-leaving-toy-
story-4-over-john-lasseter-misconduct-claims)

 _" We feel like we have been put in a position where we need to speak for
ourselves. The break neck speed at which journalist have been naming the next
perpetrator renders some reporting irresponsible and, in fact
counterproductive for the people who do want to tell their stories._

 _In this instance, the Hollywood Reporter does not speak for us. We did not
leave Pixar because of unwanted advance. That is untrue. We parted ways
because of creative and, more importantly philosophical differences. "_

It looks like The Hollywood Reporter didn't follow through by talking to the
original victims.

~~~
benzible
Per the HR article:

 _THR made repeated requests for comment to Jones and McCormack starting on
Nov. 7 but received no response._

The story does quote other victims and witnesses, so I don't think your
characterization is accurate. It looks like solid journalism.

~~~
vidarh
If so they could have left out those names and revisited it in a future
article if/when they had confirmation.

------
xwvvvvwx
This article has more details: [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/john-
lasseters-patter...](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/john-lasseters-
pattern-alleged-misconduct-detailed-by-disney-pixar-insiders-1059594)

~~~
andrepd
It's just so sad to read this. I don't care much for any of the other names
that have come up lately, but John Lasseter is my hero :(

~~~
ghostcluster
Charlie Rose had the best interview show on TV for decades, and is now just
gone.

~~~
exit
charlie rose was awful at interviewing people. he constantly interrupted
interesting thoughts. he just had to get a word in at a set rate.

yet somehow they consistently booked very interesting guests. i'll give you
that, but that's what the show had going for it, not the eponymous
interviewer.

~~~
covercash
Send that booking agent to Hot Ones and get those guests in front of Sean
Evans. He digs deep and does wonderful interviews.

~~~
sincerely
I generally agree with you, but his interview with the Chicken Connoisseur was
embarrassingly bad, starting with the choice of setting and the small talk he
opened with...

------
kelukelugames
Wow, what a shitty non apology. A longer version of "I'm sorry you felt
offended."

“That was never my intent,” he wrote. “Collectively, you mean the world to me,
and I deeply apologize if I have let you down. I especially want to apologize
to anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of an unwanted hug or any
other gesture they felt crossed the line in any way, shape, or form.”

------
rblion
Bummer. I wonder how common these issues are across the board, in all
industries, not just entertainment/tech/finance/politics.

~~~
ncallaway
From listening to the women in my life: extremely common in most (all?)
industries.

~~~
kelukelugames
I've heard far worse stories from finance, legal, and consulting than tech.
And I know many more tech workers than the other industries.

~~~
int_19h
If you want to hear some really nasty horror stories, ask women who work in
blue collar jobs...

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wiz21c
Lasseter says : " No matter how benign my intent, everyone has the right to
set their own boundaries and have them respected."

It's dead wrong. The boundaries are defined by society as a whole. The way he
puts it basically says that if you don't set your boundaries, then don't
complain if you are hurt.

~~~
Cthulhu_
No actually, whether certain behaviour or moves are acceptable or not depends
entirely on the individual. Sales people and socially awkward people are told
to reach out and touch people on the shoulder and such, for example; I don't
like people touching me, but apparently it should be socially acceptable. I
could make it a battery or sexual intimidation case if I wanted to.

Then there's people that actually like being touched, especially by close
friends which, yes, can be colleagues, and can be people above them in the
chain of command.

TL;DR it's a minefield, best to do nothing and stay away from people.

~~~
wiz21c
How do you deal with the fact that for some behaviors, most of the people who
disagree with it just stay silent. Since nobody complains individually, does
it make the behavior acceptable ?

------
sillysaurus3
Ask yourself why you considered him a hero. You don't know this person. He's a
person, just like you. I went through a similar process a couple years ago.

Relevant quote regarding Feynman:

 _…in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl
of soup he would look around for the nearest "girl" and ask if she would fetch
it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the
president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a
victim of this if it bothered her. "Yes, it really annoys me," she said. "On
the other hand, he is the only one who ever explained quantum mechanics to me
as if I could understand it." That was the essence of Richard's charm._

It's complex. You can respect their achievements while separating the other
half. And until you really know someone, it's not good to lump the two halves
together in your mind.

~~~
9935c101ab17a66
Wow, I wasn't aware. I did some searching and his own writing is even more
damning (the chapter "You Just Ask Them?" in "Surely You’re Joking, Mr.
Feynman!")

> Well, someone only has to give me the principle, and I get the idea. All
> during the next day I built up my psychology differently: I adopted the
> attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren’t worth
> anything, and all they’re in there for is to get you to buy them a drink,
> and they’re not going to give you a goddamn thing; I’m not going to be a
> gentleman to such worthless bitches, and so on. I learned it till it was
> automatic.

Further excerpts and discussion here:
[https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-
feynman-...](https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-
called-a-woman-worse-than-a-whore/)

~~~
yolobey
He was a product of his time. That section (unsurprisingly) is preceded by him
acting gentlemanly, as he always had, and failing to attract anyone. Gender
roles work both ways, and that was apparently how society there and then in
that social context expected men to act.

~~~
danharaj
His time was a product of people, like him, the ones that lived at that time.
The causality is reversed.

~~~
munificent
Surely you understand that the both statements are true and that culture and
people are an iterative process where both affect each other?

------
eps
In related news - John Draper (Cpt. Crunch) is dropped from tech conferences
for similar reasons.

[https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/11/iconic-
hacker-...](https://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2017/11/iconic-hacker-
booted-from-conferences-after-sexual-misconduct-claims-surface/)

Comments are interesting. Apparently his was a known issue and people were
explicitly warned to stay away from him at the conferences and such.

~~~
CleaningWithMud
I heard the warnings in 2000 at Defcon, though I had no direct contact with
him.

------
fictionfuture
Why is making someone uncomfortable at work somehow a newsworthy topic?

Why are people supporting this? It's clearly a farce.

------
JabavuAdams
This smacks of damage minimisation and failure to take responsibility. While
we shouldn't be applauding these guys, I found that at least Louis C.K.'s
confession seemed genuine (after the denials).

