
It's Time to End the War on Salt (2011) - danielam
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt/
======
jimrandomh
To me, the story of salt strongly highlights the difference between science
(as in, the results of scientific experiments and careful reasoning), and
"science", the things the general public is told science has found by
journalists and policymakers.

Not only was there was never a strong scientific basis for telling people to
reduce their salt intake, my anecdotal observation is that it's fairly easy to
wind up salt-deficient and get symptoms. Sweat contains salt (1g/L), so when
exercising or in high temperatures, I need to eat more of it, or I'll get
fatigued and physical exertion will become impossible. (Sweat also makes
exercise a confounder in studies that look at urinary excretion.)

Meanwhile, foods that we think of as "salty" are usually not actually salty,
but rather, are designed to create salt pica. If you start eating potato
chips, with most American brands, you'll get to 2000 calories before you get
to a typical salt intake (which is 3.5g).

~~~
hmottestad
Just looked up a bag of chips:

    
    
       100g:
         525 cal
         1.5 g salt
    

Multiply by ~3.8:

    
    
      380g:
        2000 cal
        5.7 g salt
    

Your mileage may vary, but in Norway, a typical bag of chips contains more
than 3.5g of salt per 2000 calories.

~~~
thaumasiotes
Looked up a nutrition label online:
[https://healthyeatingrocks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lays-...](https://healthyeatingrocks.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/lays-
chips.png)

    
    
        1 oz:
          150 Calories
          180 mg sodium
    

multiply by 20/3:

    
    
        6.667 oz:
          2000 Calories
          1.2g sodium
    

The kosher salt in my cupboard (ingredients: salt and an anti-caking agent) is
40% sodium by mass (480 mg sodium per 1.2 grams). Or, going by the atomic mass
listed here (
[http://www.chemicalelements.com/show/mass.html](http://www.chemicalelements.com/show/mass.html)
), sodium chloride should be 39% sodium by mass. Assuming an even 40%, that's
3 grams of salt (NaCl) in 2000 Calories of american potato chips. (Or,
assuming the less generous actual amu ratio, _3.05_ grams of salt per 2000
Calories ;D )

HOWEVER: the nutrition label also indicates almost twice as much potassium
(330 mg) as sodium. If that potassium is also salt (KCl), the chips will
handily exceed 3.5 grams of salt per 2000 Calories.

~~~
ableal
I've read somewhere before that the issue may be K vs. Na balance.

Take that with a grain of ... nevermind.

~~~
thaumasiotes
If that's true, those potato chips should be made with a lot _more_ sodium.
(Or, you know, some more sodium and less potassium. I don't think people would
eat the "now with 62% more table salt" version of the chips.)

Wikipedia says: an ion pump exchanges 3 sodium ions for 2 potassium ions. (
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium) )

3 sodium ions is 69 atomic mass units. 2 potassiums is 78.2 atomic mass units.

------
mmanfrin
Unrelated to the article directly, but a pretty fascinating story of salt:

 _By the end of the 2nd century CE, workers had devised a system of leather
valves and bamboo pipes which drew up both brine and natural gas, which they
burned to boil the brine (the technology they developed for the bamboo piping
was eventually applied to household plumbing)._

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_in_Chinese_history#Ancien...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_in_Chinese_history#Ancient_China_and_the_early_empire)

------
buu700
As someone who eats strictly keto (low-carb/high-fat), I actually have to make
a concerted effort to get enough salt in my diet due to my naturally retaining
less water than non-keto people.

This includes making somewhat high-salt food choices wherever reasonable —
bacon, pickles, salted butter, cooking with salt in general, etc. — as well as
actually adding a salt/electrolyte solution to the water I drink throughout
each day. Not only is my blood pressure fine, my most recent blood test sodium
levels are actually on the low end of normal (so I've been trying to bump up
my salt intake even a bit higher).

Not sure if this says anything interesting about salt, except maybe that
carbohydrates could be the real problem that got salt unfairly blamed.

~~~
petke
I gotta ask. I don't mean to offend. Keto diet sounds like a good way to lose
weight. But does it make ones breath smell?

~~~
mark_integerdsv
I can jump in here. I lost 16kg on a ketogenic diet.

My gut is a lot happier as evidenced by more regular and better (firm, soft,
not runny) bowel movements.

There is a definite smell (breath) associated with ketosis. It varies by
person but it is often noticeable.

I asked my wife to track it as it's very hard to notice it yourself and she
says that my system produces a slightly metallic smell the isn't objectively
bad, just different to normal.

I have Muslim friends and during Ramadaan there is a noticeable smell which is
subjectively bad from some of them.

A friend who works as a nurse in a very low income area says that she can
detect someone who isn't eating normally by the smell - very important to spot
if that person is also pregnant.

It's a long way of saying: yes there is a smell, it varies by person.

~~~
meshuggah
During Ramadan Muslims are not allowed to drink water, right? That probably
means their mouth is very dry during the fasting time meaning there's more
than usual amount of odor-causing bacteria in their mouth.

------
oliwarner
Oh good grief. Another article mangling science into sound bites?

I particularly enjoy the seemingly wilful conflation with hyponatraemia (too
low sodium).

> European researchers publishing in the Journal of the American Medical
> Association reported that the less sodium that study subjects excreted in
> their urine —an excellent measure of prior consumption— the greater their
> risk was of dying from heart disease

Nobody has ever argued that NO SALT is the right idea. So of course people
with the lowest output, people with hyponatraemia and knackered kidneys, are
going to have other issues. Sodium is essential for neural function and
osmotic control.

And the outcome of main meta-analysis in this wasn't "DO THIS INSTEAD" it was
to recommend conducting an actual long-term controlled study to see what the
actual effects of sodium control are.

Either which way, repeatedly highlight articles that say "EVERYTHING YOU KNEW
BEFORE WAS WRONG: DO THIS INSTEAD" just makes people give up _completely_.
Especially when the meta-meta-analysis is as weak as this is.

~~~
efaref
> Nobody has ever argued that NO SALT is the right idea.

Some people have been saying exactly that, e.g.:
[http://www.enformy.com/blog/benefits-of-no-salt-
diet.php](http://www.enformy.com/blog/benefits-of-no-salt-diet.php)

~~~
oliwarner
It's called the "No Salt Diet" but it doesn't actually cut out salt
completely. It's more about processed rubbish and vast quantities of added
salt.

Either which way, you are probably right. If you look hard enough, there
probably is _somebody_ out there saying anything you want. I should adjust the
statement to:

> Nobody qualified to talk on the subject has ever ...

------
bcook
In Neil deGrasse Tyson's StarTalk radio show he interviewed The author of
"Salt: A World History"[1|2] who said (paraphrased) that statistically, it
makes some sense to tell the public to not each too much salt, but on an
individual basis you can either eat as much salt as you want or you have a
health problem like high blood-pressure.

[1] [http://www.startalkradio.net/show/the-salt-of-the-earth-
part...](http://www.startalkradio.net/show/the-salt-of-the-earth-part-1/)

[2] [http://www.startalkradio.net/show/the-salt-of-the-earth-
part...](http://www.startalkradio.net/show/the-salt-of-the-earth-part-2/)

(I cannot remember if it was part 1 or part 2, so I linked both parts.)

~~~
Lazare
Yep. And to clarify, the health problems that may make salt restrictions
helpful generally involve impaired renal function or other kidney problems. If
you have chronic renal disease, you need to be damn careful about your sodium
intake, because you're not going to be able to excrete it properly.

------
bluedino
There's a war on salt? Whole foods has an entire wall of salt. There are
entire physical and online stores selling nothing but salts.

Sea salt? Would you like it from France, Alaska, or Iceland? How about colored
salt? Pink from the Himalayas, green jasmine salt, blue salt that I'm not sure
where it's from. Smoked salt?

Salt bath scrubs? Salt bars for cleansing? Heck, you can even buy a salt
_lamp_.

~~~
clay_to_n
A war by doctors, not businesses. I'd consider it "common knowledge" that salt
raises blood pressure and that you should eat less salt if you have high blood
pressure. My father and at least a couple other 50+ year old people I know try
to limit their salt intake for health reasons.

~~~
MegaDeKay
This "common knowledge" is incorrect. It applies only if you have sodium-
sensitive hypertension, and chances are, you don't.

[http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/Trait-Salt-
Sensitivity.php](http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/Trait-Salt-Sensitivity.php)

~~~
clay_to_n
Yes exactly, that's what the article is about.

------
vlehto
This is one of those "listen to your body" things I'm doing.

I've done pretty physical construction work during summers. Drinking 6L of
water during the day in the process. After three weeks, sucking grains of sea
salt tasted better than any candy. Until they suddenly didn't.

On the other hand, during the winter pickles started to taste really bad.

I try to eat my salt so that I actually taste it. When you mix it evenly to
mashed potatoes, you only get to taste fraction of the actual salt. And if you
put lot's of salt to bacon, your belly will prioritize fat over getting too
much salt. This is all based on the idea that my body knows what is best for
it. But I have to enable that sometimes.

~~~
SixSigma
That sounds good for you. But there's evidence that gut microbes work against
your body to serve themselves rather than your health

------
manfredz
The strictly non-commercial, science-based public service called
NutritionFacts.org researched the health effects of sodium and published a
video two days ago summarising the evidence that salt raises blood pressure.

[http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-evidence-that-salt-
raise...](http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-evidence-that-salt-raises-blood-
pressure/)

------
dnate
What I find interesting is that this issue about sodium being unhealthy never
really reached Europe (or at least Germany). While the US was advertising "low
sodium" on their products we are still mostly advertising "low fat" and have
some "low carb" pioneers. It seems to me that the whole "sodium is bad" scheme
was a poorly supported health tip gone viral.

~~~
metafunctor
Reducing sodium intake has been a thing doctors recommend in Finland, at
least. Ask any nurse, and they will tell you that sodium intake is definitely
connected with high blood pressure and heart disease.

Also, they will tell you need to drink lots of milk to keep your bones strong.
Also a piece of "science" on it's way out.

~~~
rapala
I was under the impression that many Finns have a genetical risk of
hypertension. Thus studies about the link between salt intake and hypertension
have been conducted, for example
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17046432](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17046432).
I haven't actually read the paper, but the abstract has this claim:

"During the past 30 years, the one-third decrease in the average salt intake
has been accompanied by a more than 10-mm Hg fall in the population average of
both systolic and diastolic blood pressure, and a 75% to 80% decrease in both
stroke and coronary heart disease mortality in Finland."

------
jdkuepper
I think it's important to look beyond hypertension before completely ending
the war on salt.

Very high salt intake may influence the risk of H. pylori infection - the main
cause of stomach cancer. It increases the risk of atrophic gastritis (chronic
inflammation of the stomach), which makes the stomach more prone to infection,
and increases the susceptibility of mucosa to neoplastic change once an
infection occurs.

If you think nobody consumes this level of salt, the Chinese and Japanese had
extremely high levels of stomach cancer decades ago before reducing their salt
intake and preservative consumption. To some extent, these problems persist to
this day. Completely ignoring salt (especially in convenience foods) could
reignite the issue.

~~~
drumdance
> (especially in convenience foods)

I think this is the key. Most salty processed foods have enormous amounts of
salt that you'd never add if you were cooking it yourself. Same with sugar in
sweet snacks.

------
spacecowboy_lon
It tallies with what my renal dietician (i have serios kidney problems) said
when I asked her about switching to low salt versions of soy salt.

"its been well marketed, but what they don't tell you is the shit they replace
salt with in these lo salt versions"

------
pessimizer
According the the latest news release we should be having a new jihad on salt,
damn the lack of evidence.

 _You’re probably eating too much salt, new guidelines say_

[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-
health/wp/2016/0...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-
health/wp/2016/01/07/salt-new-u-s-dietary-guidelines-call-for-americans-to-
lower-intake-to-a-teaspoon-a-day/)

------
MrTonyD
I'm another person who was avoiding salt - thinking it was bad for me - and
then discovered that I wasn't getting enough salt. My body's temperature
regulation was a mess - hot & not sweating with a dry mouth and dry sinus. So
I started putting a teaspoon of salt into my morning fruit smoothy - and
suddenly all the symptoms went away. I wish I had known sooner.

I've started using sea salt exclusively, since grocery store salt is just
extracted NaCl - which isn't what traditional salt, the salt that's been eaten
for centuries, really is. Sea salt is said to have a composition of trace
elements which closely resembles the human body. Sea salt has a much lower
percentage of NaCl than the processed salt.

I should add that I don't eat a lot of processed food. I cook basic foods and
put them in the freezer so I can eat them throughout the week. That is most of
my diet. So most of my salt was probably just the occasional junk food I would
eat.

~~~
tallanvor
This is just wrong. Brine wells have been used for centuries, and industrial
mining of salt, while newer, has still occurred for hundreds of years.

Further, sea salt and table salt both contain approximately 40% sodium.

If you prefer the taste or texture of sea salt, that's fine, but don't claim
that sea salt is inherently better for you, because we have studies that show
this isn't the case.

~~~
MrTonyD
Well, I'm no expert on salt - but as a Neti pot user I can instantly tell when
I'm using grocery store salt. And, coincidentally, I worked for several years
at the shore beside salt collection fields. We all used to joke that we hoped
the salt we bought wasn't from those fields - since the water was known to be
very polluted (and fishing was often prohibited.) So I can't take seriously
any claim that grocery store salt is the same as any given sea salt. And there
are plenty of studies showing significant differences. And, at this point, the
only studies I've seen about grocery store salt just tout their purity of NaCl
(which, again, is not historically what salt was), and claim that the only
significant consideration about salt is the things I don't care about
(typically their definition of "purity").

------
tim333
It amazes me how bad much of the dietary advice out there is, scientifically
speaking. Somehow something like politics gets mixed in. It would be comical
if it didn't lead to so much unnecessary death and suffering.

~~~
TeMPOraL
You'd be surprised. I was. It's even worse than you think. Most of nutrition
"out there" is bullshit.

[http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you-cant-trust-what-
you-...](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/you-cant-trust-what-you-read-
about-nutrition/)

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10851843](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10851843)

------
dschiptsov
So excess of it ceases to cause higher blod pressure or liquid retention,
especially in overweight and obese?

~~~
brianpan
I'm not sure what your question is, but the complicated thing with blood
pressure is that it is regulated by your body. So if you do something or eat
something that raises your blood pressure, your body will respond by lowering
your blood pressure. And if you do things to lower your blood pressure, as it
says in the article, your body will respond by releasing renin and aldosterone
to increase your blood pressure.

~~~
dschiptsov
According to the very basics of human physiology, excess of Na in blood stream
will cause water molecules to leave cells and bind to sodium, which causes
dehydration of cells and higher blood pressure, to which kidney should
respond. That's why we feel thirsty after salty foods - to take more water
into the system so eventually cells will go back to balance.

Prolonged exess of sodium which is maintained by habitual consumption of
packaged foods causes imbalance and unnecessary burden to the system, so it
works much less effective with obese people.

Water retention in various places of the body is also caused by exess of salt,
which is a side-effect of a chronic imbalance.

~~~
dschiptsov
NaCl, sorry.

