
5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach - mhandley
https://5g.systemsapproach.org/index.html
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bkovacev
As someone new to the 5G world I'm hearing a lot about health concerns. Can
someone please explain to me the actual health concerns? My GF has been
talking about it for a while now, but when I looked up health related studies
of 5G on google scholar - I didn't get any meaningful hits. Is it a tin foil
thing or are there really some concerns?

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s_dev
It's a tin foil hat thing. It's just wireless frequencies -- which may have
some minor impact but it wouldn't be any different to 4G or 3G really and you
can see that tech came and hasn't caused any major health issues.

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l0000p
Unfortunately, a statement like that, has just as much value as the conspiracy
theory. Since 5G is a vastly different technology, the only thing we can say
for certain is that we don't know the health risks at this point.

~~~
ewzimm
It's true that we don't have the full picture. Nothing is certain yet, but the
most likely health effects will be indirect. Two areas of concern are effects
on insect populations, which are already in collapse, and effects on bacterial
development, including potentially causing resistance to antibiotics. These
studies would be a good place to start if you're interested in more
information:

[https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-018-22271-3](https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-018-22271-3)

[https://doi.org/10.3109/1040841X.2012.691461](https://doi.org/10.3109/1040841X.2012.691461)

~~~
pas
The bactericidal effects study is behind a paywall (but seems to be readable
here:
[https://www.academia.edu/10777146/Bactericidal_effects_of_lo...](https://www.academia.edu/10777146/Bactericidal_effects_of_low-
intensity_extremely_high_frequency_electromagnetic_field_an_overview_with_phenomenon_mechanisms_targets_and_consequences)
)

See also: 53GHz has some anti-microbial effects when combined with
antibiotics:
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265134435_The_Enhan...](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265134435_The_Enhanced_Effects_of_Antibiotics_Irradiated_of_Extremely_High_Frequency_Electromagnetic_Field_on_Escherichia_coli_Growth_Properties)

Interestingly the antibiotic resistance is only seen in one particular number
on a graph, whereas the other numbers show that EMF seems "beneficial" as it
is slowing bacterial growth. Naturally the question is, what happens if you
throw human tissue in the mix too.

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ewzimm
Thanks for the alert to the paywall and the comments. I had originally read it
on Nature and included the reference provided on the article.

The lack of consistency in results is definitely an issue, and it's true that
it may be turn out to be a net benefit overall, which is why I believe we
still don't have a clear understanding of the situation. Considering that
bacteria adapt to their environment, we may see further unpredictable effects.
The risk as I see it is not knowing how it may turn out before deploying it on
a massive scale.

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erdaniels
I’ve only skimmed through this but I wish there were more books and references
written in such a manner. I typically find concepts like these harder to grasp
but this lays it out in such a way that makes it easier to grok. Nice work!

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whage
Can someone help me understand what is usually meant by "systems" as in "A
systems approach"?

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bluGill
Systems as in looking at how the system fits together as a whole. This can
often be as complex as the details of the individual parts. How do all the
parts fit together.

Example: If you are assigned to build a road you figure out the pavement so it
can support the trucks driving over it. If you are assigned the system of the
roads you instead look at where the trucks are going: is the route the road is
on a good one (including will it hit kids on the way to school, are there good
stores, will it induce demand and make things worse...), but you assume the
pavement engineers will make the road strong enough.

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gorillaJoe
Just started reading, very informative so far. Nice to see what comes out from
distilling the hype.

This might help those that like to read on mobile like me:

    
    
      # from their git repo we can build arbitrary formats (requires python)
      git clone https://github.com/SystemsApproach/5G.git
    
      # generate an epub file inside of *_build/epub*
      make epub

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NKosmatos
Well written, clear and clean presentation, very good material inside for
whoever wants to read more about 5G and mobile networks in general. Highly
recommended!!!

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0x445442
Is there any hope of 5G providing internet service comparable to my current
broadband offering? Competition for my home internet would be nice.

~~~
Jhsto
Speed and latency wise it should be manageable, but the bigger problem is
spectrum licenses. Depending on your local legislation, it might be that new
competitors cannot do last-mile 5G delivery because the existing telecoms have
purposefully lobbied and bought out all available spectrum.

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tu7001
Don't you think, that 5g is stupid idea, if masts have to by every, 200 - 300?
meters, it will be terribly ugly, and how it's suppose to work in farms?

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maffydub
5G doesn't need masts every 200-300m.

There are multiple different frequency bands you can use.

The lowest frequencies are around the same as 4G, so you should need similar
numbers of masts to get reasonable coverage.

The highest are around 60GHz - these are pretty much line-of-sight and are
likely to be used for shorter-range (but super-high-bandwidth) applications.

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superkuh
What he means is that 5G offers only a ~15-20% increase in thoroughput with
it's new set of modulation schemes given the same frequency span using 4G. So
the increase in performance has to come from new frequency use. They'll steal
half of C-band from satellite uplink but then all that's left is millimeter
wave to truly get more thoroughput.

And that does have the problem about the propagation characteristics.

~~~
maffydub
5G isn't just about bandwidth, though.

There's quite a useful diagram at the bottom of
[https://techblog.comsoc.org/2017/03/02/itu-r-agrees-on-
key-p...](https://techblog.comsoc.org/2017/03/02/itu-r-agrees-on-key-
performance-requirements-for-imt-20205g/) showing the three key use cases.

As well as "Enhanced Mobile Broadband" (which does focus on increased
bandwidth), there's also

* "Massive IoT", which focuses on reducing power requirements and increasing the number of devices that can be served in a single cell (assuming they all transmit very little data)

* "Low Latency", which focuses on better scheduling and quality of service.

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wallflower
I heard the real reason we need 5G is to sell more new phones. Thinner and
bigger and better cameras isn’t enough anymore. However, mobile phones running
5G radios will deplete their battery far more rapidly than LTE, right? And
that is assuming the 5G phone user is in a major metropolitan area where there
is sufficient coverage to begin with.

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dmos62
You bring up some valid points. I traveled to China recently. Phones like
iPhone 5 practically don't work there, because the specifications supported by
these phones are phased out to such a degree that you're hard pressed to find
coverage even in urban areas. I.e. 4G and 5G made the older specs obsolete, so
you're obligated to buy a newer device.

Though, I guess it's possible that these bands were never supported in China.
If anyone cares to chime in.

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henrikeh
The Chinese telcos developed their own 3G standard called TD-CDMA.

Note that 3G refers to a family or classification of network technologies, and
the same is true for the other G’s. As an example CDMA2000 and UMTS are both
competing 3G standards.

