
How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model - vitabenes
https://www.deprocrastination.co/blog/how-to-stop-procrastinating-by-using-the-fogg-behavior-model
======
pmoriarty
Some time back, I read all I could on procrastination, and watched dozens of
videos on it, and by far the best thing I found on it was this video by Tim
Pychyl: [1]

It focuses particularly on procrastination in graduate school, but is widely
applicable elsewhere.

One of the key insights that Pychyl, a psychologist who studies
procrastination, had is that procrastination is not (as is commonly believed)
a time management problem but a problem with managing negative emotions.

He has lots of really useful, practical tips for overcoming procrastination in
the video, which I highly recommend.

[1] -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA)

~~~
vitabenes
Yes, Pychil's work is incorporated in our materials.

This is the recipe for procrastination (according to us):

1\. Think about a task - "I have to do _____."

2\. Have an automatic negative reaction

    
    
         2a. Negative thoughts - "I hate doing this,"...
    
         2b Negative feelings - Feeling stressed, afraid,...
    

3\. Procrastinate - Do something else to feel better.

Procrastination is all about escaping negative emotions.

Something makes you feel bad, you do something else to feel better.

Feeling better (reduced discomfort) is the short-term reward engaging in
procrastination.

That's why procrastination can become addictive and automatic)

~~~
hnick
Sometimes when I am very emotionally upset or have a very negative task I want
to avoid like studying, I will get the sudden urge to clean or work on a
similar low-brainpower project (which is not something that comes naturally to
me in normal times).

If I were merely trying to feel better I'd just go for video games or
something like I normally do, but there must be something else going on that
directs me to focus on simple and useful ways to feel better in the most
extreme cases. It'd be nice to capture that in a bottle.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Feelings are complex. Personally, at any given time, I have two or three of
sideprojects, videogames and TV shows I could focus on, each. But when I
procrastinate, I end up reading HN or some subreddit or something similar,
instead of coding my side projects or playing a game I've been waiting to play
for the past year.

I've traced that to feelings of _guilt_. I can't enjoy a videogame if I feel
I'm only using it to escape and make my situation worse. I can probably enjoy
a TV show a bit, for a while, until my brain realizes that it's just an escape
mechanism and I get more stressed. But social media in general, offer you a
bite-sized escape. There's nothing wrong in taking 2 minutes break to skim
comments on a HN thread, or scroll through some funny pictures somewhere. 2
more minutes won't make a difference either. 2 more? And suddenly it's been 5
hours.

So in the end, I don't do the things I have to, and I also don't do the things
I _want to_ \- all because negative emotions.

(Part of my solution to this problem was just blocking certain sites (like HN)
on the router during work hours.)

~~~
im3w1l
I'm kind of wondering if it's the brain's way of saying you should talk your
problem over with other people. And HN is a sort of maladaptive (for various
reasons) version of that.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Seeking counseling on HN is definitely a recurring trend here, one I've been
guilty of too at times, so you may be onto something here!

~~~
im3w1l
Oh that's not what I meant, I was thinking of discussing something completely
different, or only tangentially related. When you should be seeking
counseling.

~~~
TeMPOraL
I misunderstood you, sorry. And yes, I agree with your clarified point too -
that definitely happens for me, and I'd guess for a lot of us here. I'm not
ashamed to admit that HN discussions satisfy the same needs as meatspace
socializing, even if they're doing it the way McDonald's satisfies hunger.

HN is really the worst. With other sites I visit, I can at least honestly say
it's a pure waste of time. But here, every couple weeks I'll find something
that solves a tough problem I have; every year or two I find something career-
altering. If I were to integrate ((value I get from HN) - (opportunity cost of
time spent here)), I'm not sure whether it's even negative. My monkey brain
definitely feels it's positive (magic of temporal discounting). If I spent
this time on other things, maybe I'd be running a space company now. Or maybe
I'd be depressed and stuck doing PHP for ridiculously low salaries.

------
georgespencer
It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period
of time with a few things in my personal and professional life:

1\. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus
in topics which do not.

2\. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last
moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution.

3\. Periodic deep dives into topics which go beyond the aforementioned “areas
of interest”.

4\. Driven by a motor in meetings: itching to get up and walk around as we
talk, feeling more comfortable with any kind of low level motor action
happening concurrently to my thinking and speaking. Also led to me leaping to
the end of a person’s sentence and others experiencing me as highly impatient
/ excitable at times.

5\. The need to have a TV show or other media playing as I fall asleep.
Ideally something I’ve seen before and which is enjoyable but not too
engrossing. Almost like one of the cores in my processor couldn’t be idle — it
actually made it hard to sleep. (Conversely I always fell asleep watching
films with my partner.)

6\. Various odd elements of disorganisation — never at work but eg. losing my
keys and documents.

If you’re reading this and hearing elements of your own experience, and in
particular if this is familiar to you from childhood (“Why can’t you apply
yourself to X like you do Y?!”) then I would encourage you to speak to a
serious psychiatrist about the possibility that you have ADHD.

Not everyone has it and I accept that many are probably misdiagnosed with it.
My experience of clicking every link on HN with hacks for focusing and not
procrastinating was actually a very sad one and I didn’t realise how
profoundly it had affected me until I sat in the office of a psychiatrist and
he rattled off a range of specific experiences he wagered I had had during my
life.

It’s been a remarkable process for me of feeling emotional relief as well as
receiving medication which improves my life.

Again if you’re looking for a productivity hack you do not need to consider
that you have any sort of chemical disregulation, but I did not consider the
possibility of a medical condition and found myself often in rabbit holes of
productivity hacks feeling deeply unproductive.

~~~
non-entity
Ok serious question: Every one of these points is very applicable to me,
especially 1,2 and 3.

I haven't been to a doctor in years outside occasional emergency trips. How do
you bring this up without seriously. I don't want to come off as the guy who
compulsively self diagnoses based off what they read on the internet.

~~~
anon9001
No problem, serious answer:

This is the DSMV criteria:
[https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html](https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html)

Doctors are typically screening with a quiz that looks something like this:
[https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd-
quiz/](https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/adhd-quiz/)

It's perfectly reasonable to say "I think I may have ADHD based on what I've
read online, my symptoms match and people who know me have suggested I try
adderall".

Some doctors are fine with letting everyone have stimulants, because they're
pretty harmless unless you're really binging on them, and they won't give you
enough to do that for very long.

Other doctors would prefer to put you on an SSRI or SNRI or wellbutrin or some
other "non-addictive" medication (which ironically are more addictive,
dangerous, and less effective), so avoid those IMO. You may have to shop
around a bit, but your primary care doctor technically can write the
prescription, but some prefer not to and you might need to find a specialist.

Contraindications for stimulants are if the patient has a history of heart
conditions, complains about racing heart rate, excessive sweating, trouble
sleeping, trouble eating, etc.

You generally want to start with a low dose of "instant release" as opposed to
"extended release" pills, so you can have more fine grained control over the
dose. IR pills can be broken in half, XR cannot. Some doctors are more nervous
about IR than XR because they think it has more abuse potential (not true, but
it's a common belief).

With all that said, stimulants _will_ fix the problems OP described, but don't
mistake that for a pleasant experience. The truth is that amphetamines are
extremely mentally exhausting, and if you don't take good care of yourself
(planning proper meals, staying hydrated, resting at appropriate times, not
taking more pills when you shouldn't), you can quickly spiral out of control.
It's hard to explain to someone that doesn't do drugs, but stimulants can
leave you feeling like a shell of yourself, and it's really disconcerting.
It's sort of like being over-tired where you're awake but your judgment is
clearly impaired and you don't feel like "you". If you stay on them long
enough, you'll start to feel like a zombie just going through the motions
(successfully, mind you), but without identity. I make sure to take weekends
off to preserve their efficacy for the work week and to make sure I don't
become too dependent.

I'd 100% recommend having stimulants in your toolkit, and chances are you're
already supplementing with worse stimulants (like mountains of coffee or
soda), so do give them a try, but be careful.

~~~
projektfu
I know it’s splitting a hair but I didn’t find Effexor addictive. The
withdrawal symptoms are terrible. But they motivate you to kill yourself, not
take another pill. I never wanted to take two pills or increase my frequency.
I would often forget to take one. So I don’t consider it addictive. For
reference, I’ve been addicted to cigarettes and alcohol before.

~~~
2squirrels
I think that is what is being said. Effexor is not addictive in the
‘traditional’ sense addictive drugs are, but you’re brain and body become
dependent on them in ways you don’t realize until you’re trying to come off of
them. And because it is a process to find the right medication, you don’t want
to be starting and stopping those kinds of medications over and over. A
stimulant may be seen as more addictive (due to the potential for abuse /
dopamine release), but starting Ritalin then switching to adderall, then say
vyvanse, is a less invasive process than starting Effexor then coming off and
switching to Wellbutrin etc

------
sna1l
For things that I don't have the motivation to do (things I procrastinate), my
strategy is to start doing the smallest possible unit of that thing as I can.

Recently I started meditating, something I've tried to get into, but never
have. I downloaded this app Balance which encourages daily practice
(reminders, 3,5,10 guided meditations, etc). I am still not "motivated" to do
it, but I don't need to be because it is just part of my schedule.

The reason I say this is that I feel like "building motivation" is kind of the
wrong attitude. You won't like everything that you do (go to the gym, pay your
bills, etc), but building a repeatable habit makes it so you don't need to
feel motivated. This might be a nitpick, but the big change in thinking for me
was around not having to be motivated to do something.

~~~
oaao_
I agree - in my experience, "motivation" is a wildly volatile concept,
especially in how a) when it arrives to your thought process, it's usually in
the form of bemoaning a _lack_ of motivation, and semi-consequently b) one
almost always thinks about "motivation" in a form that is highly moralized
(i.e. inviting shame & co.). I find that usually when we employ "motivation"
as a concept, it is usually (whether explicitly or latently) in the context of
personal failing.

The most success I've had in actively dealing with things like this is when I
am able to frame a situation for myself in an extra-moral way and actually
believe it - i.e. that something is, like you said, a matter of habit-building
and consistency, rather than ontological and exertional good-enough-ness. The
tough part here is that many people understand this, cerebrally, but it takes
drilling this perspective quite a lot to actually ingrain it into one's belief
system.

There's a night and day difference, though, between "well I guess I couldn't
do it after all" and "well I guess that's a one-day blip on a four-day
streak", and people with 'motivational' difficulties also aren't that great at
conceptualizing about & nurturing incremental progress towards an abstract
goal, which this also helps immensely with.

All in all I love that your takeaway was, effectively, that 'motivation' can
be seen as behavioral inertia that hasn't yet been solved by habit-training.
It's not a poetic nitpick at all; at least in my view it's the fundamental
operative basis for dealing with the phenomenon of procrastination.

~~~
live1999
Made an account just so I can thank you for this comment. You have done an
amazing job of illustrating the problem of thinking of things in terms of
motivation as well as moralizing it.

I'm going through a major depressive / procrastination episode. And now i'm
asking myself, why can't I just apply the same thinking and approach I use for
exercise and diet to the rest of my life. (I.E. it's just something I do, a
habit I build on.). Epiphany for me. :)

~~~
oaao_
I had made an account just to post it! It's warming as hell to know it could
help give you a workable verbal framework.

This way of thinking isn't (yet?) /always/ something I'm able to just root
myself in, down to the autonomic depths of my lizard-brain or whatever, and I
definitely still slip into moments or swathes of variations on, "I am in some
way fundamentally wrong/insufficient".

So, sure, it's not a panacea that lets you evade depressive troughs
completely, BUT it lets you go through those with a supervisory lens that
says, "was that thought/attitude/self-perception unambiguously extra-moral?
no? then it's not real; it's just a shame narrative; carry on". That's MORE
than enough for a shit-ton of cumulative and lasting progress.

------
avindroth
The human mind is far more complex than a lot of these models or frameworks
suggest. A model or a framework can mean any structured representation, but I
am explicitly talking about the market of psychological frameworks. The
‘supply’ of that market consists of pretty bad models that do more harm than
good (e.g. Mindset by Carol Dweck, CBT, Fogg Behavior Model, or anything based
on behaviorism). I don’t recall fully, but ‘The Mind’ by Andre Kukla has a
great exposition on this.

What I recommend for people is directly observing your mind with autonomy. Or
if you don’t feel like observing your mind, following your impulses, whether
it’s ‘bad’ or not. This kind of self-exploration is the only real way out,
especially when most times people attempting to help (sadly) impose upon
rather than liberate people’s minds.

~~~
randomsearch
Why are growth mindsets bad? Challenging yourself seems pretty common sense
no, the idea that you _can_ get there.

~~~
0xcde4c3db
The big problem with growth mindset isn't the mindset itself, it's the
theoretical framework and the broader milieu surrounding it. It would be one
thing if the concept were simply put forward as a way of framing and thinking
about certain differences in how people learn in certain contexts. But there's
apparently now a faction of education experts who have decided that growth
mindset is Right and fixed mindset is Wrong, and so we're failing children if
we don't "educate" them into having a growth mindset. Even if that means
totally ignoring their lived experience and making them fill in a bunch of
worksheets that are basically just "Goofus and Gallant" for beliefs instead of
actions.

------
njsubedi
I have this constant feeling that some post on HN will motivate me more, or
just teach me to be less of a procrastinator. That’s the reason I check HN
frequently, and click on these kinds of links. Then I see the post is too
long, and scroll-skim it. Nothing really changes about procrastination; we
don’t do shit until some other shit is on fire.

~~~
vitabenes
Check out the browser extension on our site! That might help, if an article
won't.

I used to check Twitter 100-150 times a day, but with the use of the
extension, I got it under 20 times. Try the Focus Zones feature. Try it, let
me know if it works. I'll give you 3 months of Pro features for free if you
shoot me an email.

~~~
edcrfv
What's your site?

~~~
vitabenes
The one with the article linked in the original post.

------
DecayingOrganic
You can read the paper itself [0]. It was originally introduced as a behavior
model for persuasive design, later on has become quite popular in self-help
field.

To summarize, it states:

"The FBM asserts that for a person to perform a target behavior, he or she
must (1) be sufficiently motivated, (2) have the ability to perform the
behavior, and (3) be triggered to perform the behavior."

The author then makes the case that since any attempts to modify the
motivation level of an agent is hard and often fails, one can focus on
modifying the ability of a task, thus making it easier for the agent to
perform.

Let's say you want to start flossing your teeth, following the FBM, you can
modify the required ability to perform the task by saying "I only need to
floss one tooth." By doing so, you compensate for your low motivation and
increase the likelihood of doing it.

[0]: [https://captology.stanford.edu/wp-
content/uploads/2010/11/Be...](https://captology.stanford.edu/wp-
content/uploads/2010/11/Behavior-Model-for-Persuasive-Design.pdf)

~~~
dboreham
You have to select a random different tooth every day though.

~~~
hanniabu
Or just repeat the small task 26 times

------
trabant00
When you get decently good at one thing you discover there are no recipes.
There exists an infinite possible issues that can disrupt a working system and
applying a few canned solutions is lottery.

If you are looking at issues as a linear scale, for example a bolt from too
tight or too lose, "making sure all your bolts are tight" (common tutorial
type of advice) is not a very good thing.

Similarly, "how to stop procrastination". First thing I would ask somebody who
would come with this to me in my field is "why do you want to stop, what are
you actually trying to achieve?". Is the customer sure he should stop? Maybe
he is overworked, maybe his job sucks, and solving procrastination would
actually make his life worse.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_problem)
This is just one example of the many questions that should be asked before
offering solutions.

~~~
vitabenes
That's what we do in 1-on-1 coaching in our program, but it's somewhat hard to
do that in an article.

------
chpmrc
What if procrastination was the simple act of postponing something just
because... _you can_. Erase the 9-5, the arbitrary deadlines, the impossible
requests of a boss, a client or a partner. Poof! Procrastination conceptually
ceases to exist.

It's _ok_ to do nothing for 2 days and then put in 12 hours straight of purely
productive coding, if you are not supposed to follow a specific timetable.

It's _ok_ to be a few days late on a deadline if that deadline has no reason
to exist (which, let's be honest, most don't).

It's _ok_ to spend a few weeks on a project then abandon it for a few weeks
only to rediscover the joy of working on it afterwards if there is nobody
constantly asking "is it ready yet?".

Because, let's face it, nobody in their right mind procrastinates if their
livelihood is on the line or if it means letting someone down. We only
procrastinate when we can. And if it gets so bad that you just can't get
around to doing something, no matter how hard you try, congratulations! You've
just found something you hate doing :)

What if it was all that simple?

~~~
parsley27
I don't think that is the case for many people, myself included. There are two
sides to this not being the best way to think of it for some:

\- slipping on deadlines becomes cumulative and does affect your career or
business; the more work that is delayed, the most difficult it seems to be to
ever catch up

\- there is a fast-approaching deadline for all of us, and I don't want to
look back on what may be my last decade of high productivity and realize I
spent most of it on Netflix and Steam

As said by others, procrastination is often a symptom of negative
visualization of a task; if you can train yourself to drop the fixation of a
task being unpleasant, you can overcome most procrastination.

That has worked for me; now, when I miss deadlines, it's more due to
overestimating my energy than falling victim to my own procrastination.

~~~
chpmrc
What if you framed those 2 problems (having to catch up and not wanting to
realize you watched too much Netflix) as self imposed goals? Then you'd have
to answer the question: why do you feel the need to catch up (unless not
catching up leads to consequences that would make you feel even worse and from
which you cannot recover)? Why do you feel like spending most of the time on
Netflix or Steam is a waste of time?

What if the need to set an arbitrary goal and the need to achieve it were just
a way to cope with the fact that we are not genuinely interested in having any
(at the moment)? And what's wrong with that?

~~~
parsley27
I personally don't feel contentment can come without some form of
productivity, not that it has to be a traditional concept of work. I think not
having goals is a breeding ground for discontent and depression.

But like everything else, it often depends on personal experience.

------
ctur
This post just seems to be to draw semi-sensational attention to a self-help
book. The site isn't generally referencing primary sources or otherwise giving
signals of why it should be trusted. It also doesn't identify the authors.

It's hard to take the site seriously when it equates gaming to being an
alcoholic (while later in the same post backpedaling it):
[https://www.deprocrastination.co/blog/should-i-quit-video-
ga...](https://www.deprocrastination.co/blog/should-i-quit-video-games)

~~~
vitabenes
We'll you got a point. We could link to primary sources more often and add our
faces to more places.

Also: we equate gaming addiction (addiction being the key word) to alcoholism,
not gaming as such.

Have a great day!

------
corty
Yes, every website returning "application error" is one less chance for
procrastination. However, since it is rather hard convincing everyone to break
their website for me, I'll continue using a browser extension to keep me from
procrastinating. ;)

~~~
vitabenes
Working on that error. Sorry about that.

------
komali2
The Trigger one really resonated with me. I've been desperately struggling
with getting tasks done - I thought it was Motivation mostly (and a good deal
of the issue is, quarantine is sucking my energy). But when I think back to
all the times I was successful, it was the presence of good triggers.

For example, I did a coding bootcamp, and it was the most productive part of
my life, because in my opinion of the powerful triggers. I show up, I do a
coding challenge. Every day. That's how it worked. Then at 9:30 or whatever
there's a lecture. I go to it and I take notes. Then there's a pair
programming excercise... etc. All I had to do was plug myself into the
schedule, and the motivation and ability basically came for free. It was a
sort of freedom - sorry brain, we don't really have a say in this, gotta
follow the schedule.

Recently I've been struggling to work out as frequently as I did when I was
working. Before, I'd bicycle to the gym, and then go from there to the office.
Obviously right now that wasn't happening - but functionally I had _more_ time
to work out now. I have _more_ freedom, so why am I working out less? Then I
talked to a therapist about depression etc, and she said "well before we can
do anything else, you need to start working out again. 30 mins cardio a day,
elevated heart rate and sweating." Suddenly it was easy. Suddenly it was like
Freedom again. Sorry brain, we gotta just run, doctor's orders.

Interestingly, for the first time in my life (big weightlifter, never a big
cardio guy), I could do a 30 minute run without stopping. Sure, a pace of 11.5
minute mile, but before I couldn't even do 20 minutes without interspersing
walking (about 12.5 or 13 min mile for a 2 mile run). But day 1 after doctor's
orders, I just did it? It's completely fascinating. I obviously always had the
ability, the restriction was entirely mental.

So I really like how this author put the Trigger into words. It reflects my
own personal experience.

~~~
vitabenes
Happy to articulate it for you!

Without a trigger (also called a prompt), there is no behavior. We need
someone (ourselves, others) or something (alarm, calendar) to take action.

------
cborenstein
For me, the main cause of procrastination was lack of clarity on what needs to
be done.

I've found that following a rigorous brain-dump process makes a big
difference.

For my brain-dumps, I start by jotting down a list of everything I can think
of that's related to my task. I let ideas flow freely.

Then I scan through what I've written and check if there's anything that's not
specific and actionable. If so, I zoom in and do another brain-dump on that
task. I repeat until I have only very specific items

[https://www.indiehackers.com/post/the-root-cause-of-
procrast...](https://www.indiehackers.com/post/the-root-cause-of-
procrastination-0c37b8d650)

~~~
vitabenes
Yeah! Brain dumps are a great tool.

------
kkylin
I think this is in general quite insightful, but I want to pick one nit (in
reaction to "A professor doesn't tell you when to..."): having advised a
number of PhD students (in applied math), I think one of the most important
parts of the job of an advisor is to coach. That is, help students make
decisions, set timelines, figure out when to do what. Most students who get
this far are capable of solving well-posed, textbook-sized technical problems.
What they have trouble with is how to break a big problem into smaller ones,
which of the smaller problems to solve, in what order, how to prioritize,
where to compromise, etc. Good advisors help beginning students do this. (Not
that I'm good at this -- I've certainly learned this the hard way over the
years; just hoping the students didn't suffer too much as a result.)

~~~
benibela
My biggest problem is writing/presenting efficiently. Usually I spend several
hours on a single paragraph or beamer slide. Today I spend all my time
preparing my defense presentation (besides social media), but only made drafts
for two slides.

And my advisor is also very busy. He says he will write the introduction for a
paper and then finds no time to finish it

~~~
kkylin
The making of slides (or sentences in a paper) gets easier with practice. The
advisor or collaborator or you yourself being too busy is, unfortunately, not
something that gets better with time. The most important thing is learning to
say "no" to new responsibilities without becoming an irresponsible member of
whatever organization (university, research lab, etc) you find yourself in.
It's a balancing act.

------
owenshen24
Fogg has some good thoughts on positive behavior change. James Clear, who
wrote Tiny Habits, is another good person in this space who writes reasonable
stuff.

Self-plug for an overview on research into the habit formation literature that
I recently cleaned up. Covers many evidence-backed interventions (of varying
quality) for habit formation and removal.

[https://mlu.red/52436366310.html](https://mlu.red/52436366310.html)

~~~
aryamaan
Just a small clarification "Atomic Habits" is the name of the book written by
James Clear.

Also, Tiny Habits is another book which also discusses the same space.

~~~
owenshen24
Yeah, my bad. I mis-remembered. Thanks for clarifying!

------
dsubburam
I find concepts like "procastination" problematic, including associated ones
in the comments like "resolve", "discipline", and separately, "weak will".

Take the case of "resolving" to watch just one episode of your favorite TV
show after dinner. You then end up binge-watching three episodes. Why is this
a case of "weak will" when it is simpler to explain it as a change of mind?
After all, there is "new data" post the first episode; maybe an increased
curiosity into what happens next, or still feeling wide awake.

The idea of "free will" is well motivated. I am not so sure about "weak will"
etc.

Is there some other way to characterize the applicable cases?

------
system2
There is nothing can stop procrastinating but only if we do things we love. I
remember being passionate about little electronics projects when I was young,
I would spend 10+ hours per day without getting bored. Now if In need to do
anything I will find something to postpone or do it half assed while doing
something else at the same time.

Do something you love and wouldn't get bored of. Like gardening or something.
Something simple. When there are more parts and added steps in the process
(like a web app) you will eventually stop doing it because of the complexity.

~~~
non-entity
The problem is I spend 8+ hours a day doing something I don't care about and
by the time I can work on the things I love I'm mentally exhausted and just
sleep for hours.

~~~
epicureanideal
See my other comment in this thread. I think the model's lack of consideration
for "mental exhaustion" means it's incomplete.

------
altonzheng
I’d add removing inner resistance, which could be expanded under motivation in
the formula. Increasing motivation isn’t simply an additive process — you can
introspect on the things limiting your motivation, eg. fear of failure, and
address them. After that, you have more cognitive space, and a difficult task
might suddenly seem much more tractable. It’s about letting go of the
thoughts/emotions holding you back. In my experience, tackling this has been
most rewarding, not to say the practices in the article don’t help.

~~~
vitabenes
True.

I think that could fall under "improving ability" in the Fogg model.

------
RalfWausE
I have an a bit different approach: Just stop this "self-optimization" bs and
start being a human with all his flaws and failures. I think if you tinker to
much with yourself and your flaws you are in danger of loosing yourself and
become some sort of machine.

------
stakkur
I generally disagree with these kinds of models. Not because motivation,
triggers, etc. aren't real things, but because they couch the problem as being
either outside of us, or quasi-genetic (ADHD, etc.), instead of a choice that
we make and own.

Taking action has varying degrees of difficulty for every person. The factors
are numerous. But in history, in life, in every scenario I've _ever_ read or
studied or watched, there's only one factor that matters: regardless of
conditions, health, limitations, weather, whatever-- _the person made a
decision and took action, over and over_. In my experience, it's as boring as
that. No mental hack, no shortcut--decision and action.

Sure, you can work on 'clearing obstacles' to getting things done--mental
models, physical problems, whatever--but you don't wait for this to be
'solved'. You have to act. And do it again until you're done.

~~~
lucasmullens
So your solution to procrastination is to just take action?

I've got ADHD, and sometimes I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it"
is like telling a depressed person to "just be happy". It might work great for
you, but for many that just doesn't work.

I get your point, and sometimes I can psych myself up enough to do something
with the "just do it" mentality, but sometimes that doesn't work, and articles
like this can help me understand why and how to fix it.

~~~
georgespencer
> I feel like telling ADHD people to "just do it" is like telling a depressed
> person to "just be happy"

That is _literally_ what it is like. You are asking someone with a
neurodevelopmental disorder which results in disregulation of various brain
functions to behave like a person WITHOUT a neurodevelopmental disorder which
results in disregulation of various brain functions. The person literally
cannot.

------
chrisandchips
If motivation and ability are both already there, I usually find the easiest
way to move past procrastination is to choose a small-mid sized task and set a
15 minute timer.

Committing to working on that task for 15 mins, even if I really dont feel
like it, is usually enough to get the ball rolling.

~~~
vitabenes
Yeah, it's a simple technique that we also recommend. Our extension has a
timer for that reason.

------
pkphilip
Thank you. Will read this later.

~~~
vitabenes
Not sure if this is a classic procrastination joke or a promise, but either
way, please do :)

~~~
pkphilip
:) yes

------
rgoulter
Thanks.

This sounds like it might be useful. I'd seen the motivation equation before,
but hadn't seen ability, cue.

In general, I like to think that a lot of common problems are easier to solve
than to identify. I suspect a tough part of this is recognising when you're
procrastinating.

I think the form of procrastination I encounter the most is the "lack of
action from a lack of a cue". \-- With programming, if there's some
significant delay in getting feedback (build takes too long, tests take too
long), I'll get distracted by other things without getting back into it.

------
docent8
There's a great book called the Procrastination Equation that addresses this,
and offers a different equation than Fogg.

Motivation = (Expectancy + Value) / (Impulsiveness + Delay)

It's useful to know what each of those terms means.

Your motivation is for a specific task or goal.

Expectancy is your confidence that you can complete a task or reach the goal.

Value is the importance you assign to the goal.

Impulsiveness is how distractable you are, or your susceptibility to other
interesting things that you might do instead of working toward the goal (like
writing comments on HN! ;).

Delay is the amount of time you have until the task should be completed.

The more distractable you are, and the more time until you hit your deadline,
the less motivation you have.

The more confidence you have in your ability to complete the task, and the
more importance you assign to it (eg this is life or death), the more
motivated you are.

Cedric Chin has a nice overview here:

[https://commoncog.com/blog/a-user-review-of-the-
procrastinat...](https://commoncog.com/blog/a-user-review-of-the-
procrastination-equation/)

------
aplusbi
I have started subscribing to the believe that it is not about motivation,
it's about discipline. There is only so much you can do to motivate yourself
to do a tedious or onerous task. But if you have discipline, you don't need
the motivation.

I still struggle a lot with procrastination, but I find this reframing to be
helpful.

~~~
dtjohnnyb
I think one issue with discipline is that there's a value judgement attached,
so that when I procrastinate, I'm an undisciplined slob, I feel worse, more
procrastination, spiral.

As you said, having discipline reframed into triggers and motivation allows
more objective reasoning. You do the task because you have a well created
system of triggers that you follow regularly because you know the _why_ of
what you're doing at a big picture level. If I procrastinate, it means my
system or my why isn't working for me, and I need to reevaluate.

------
dang
If curious see also

5 months ago
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22391288](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22391288)

2010
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1510871](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1510871)

------
jvanderbot
Have I mentioned how I dislike the use of "mental model" for this type of
post?

Or how X=Y+Z is misleading (set Z to zero, and you still have X). From post: "
Behavior = motivation + ability + trigger...

According to FBM, there are three things we need to do something:

    
    
        Motivation
        Ability
        Trigger"
    

No, addition doesn't mean "You need all three". Multiplication does. B=M _A_
T.

AND = multiply

OR = add.

~~~
vitabenes
Good catch, will change it.

------
praveen9920
I've been procrastinating to read this article for a while. Realizing THAT was
good enough motivation for me to read the article through.

------
interfixus
Clicked through fully expecting a treatment of the _Plileas_ Fogg model, i.e.
place your bet, then without further ado set off on your journey around the
globe that very same evening, i.e. Just Do It.

Which is propably, all told, more useful advise than any number of overthought
musings and bullet lists and schematics to bury myself in before actually, you
know, doing it.

~~~
vitabenes
That might also be a fun short article.

Imo, the Fogg Behavior Model is not overthought. It can be explained in 2
minutes and yield immediately applicable insights ("Oh, I need a trigger"), I
recommend reading Tiny Habits for more nuance on this.

------
rev0lutions
I'm missing the "trigger" piece of this since remote work kicked in. Any tips
for effective work triggers when wfh are much appreciated. I've tried the
common ones - designated work area, set schedule etc but I end up spending all
day (apart from mtgs) surfing the web instead! ugh... I thought I mastered
this in grad school

------
kaonwarb
This is nicely summarized. Bookmarking as a resource for helping team members
who are new to relatively unstructured work. Thanks.

~~~
vitabenes
Awesome! Happy to help

------
gentleman11
I tried Fogg's Tiny Habits once. The basic idea is that the easiest way to
begin building up a habit is to start with a behavior that you have no
resistance to.

Its basically a sound idea, but its an oversimplification. I am not sure what
his "behaviour model" is but I assume it evolved from his previous work.

------
amar-laksh
I went ahead and created a very simple yet effective excel sheet based on the
blog. [https://github.com/amar-
laksh/FBM/blob/master/FBM.xlsx](https://github.com/amar-
laksh/FBM/blob/master/FBM.xlsx)

------
Aerroon
When I break problems down into smaller pieces I seem to often not finish the
work. Then I'll be frustrated, because I put in all that work with nothing to
show for it. If I had procrastinated instead, I could've at least done
something more enjoyable. Are there any solutions for that?

------
m3kw9
Added to the reading list for later.

------
sudhirkhanger
I can develop habits by working on them a piece by piece. But even after
having developed the habit in 3-4 months I usually end up dropping them. One
such habit is exercising. I can't figure out what might possibly be wrong.

------
nmeofthestate
I'm not sure what the X's in the headings are supposed to mean.

~~~
rgoulter
Could be replaced with "Deficient". "Motivation-deficient Procrastination",
"Ability-deficient Procrastination" and "Trigger-deficient Procrastination".

------
tsjq
that's a nice website. pls add a page to tabulate the differences among the
three paid plans listed there: essentials vs producer vs high-performer .

------
Ym7K8KUf
Currently trying to find a good reason for doing laundry.

------
leptoniscool
Some libraries are clearly better than others, what we need is a better rating
system to differentiate the good ones from the bad.

------
dod9er
Does anyone here have solid resources on this topic in german language ?

------
snow_mac
Sounds interesting but I'm going to have to read this later...

------
bdamm
This is a nice read and a useful, practical model. Thank you!

~~~
vitabenes
Happy to help!

------
robmerki
Procrastination is the _intentional_ avoidance or delay of a task. I have ADHD
and assumed I was procrastinating a lot. Nope. These type of models never
worked for me.

------
ChicagoDave
I’ll check this out later. Sounds promising.

------
vitabenes
Sorry, it will be up in a moment!

------
m1117
"Application error" helped with my procrastination. I thought, I'll come back
later.

~~~
vitabenes
It's back up! Try again and see if it actually helps.

------
Konohamaru
tl;dr: someone who can pay for a coach, or a grad student to keep him company,
etc... has only two obstacles to overcoming endeavors instead of three.

------
marta_morena_25
Oh cool, so basically this is about finding a way to cheat your brain into
doing things it doesn't want to do. Maybe a good approach would be to find
something you actually like to do instead and reflect on your choices and
priorities in life?

It's amusing that you need a professor to tell you how to convince yourself
that your life doesn't suck. A more natural approach might be to change what
you are trying to do in the first place...

Guess what, the brain was not made to earn money.

~~~
ummonk
Yup. I mean we do have to make money, and deal with the administrative
complexities of modern life, and we should find strategies to cope with that.
At the same time though, our brains are not somehow defective or lazy for
wanting to do more interesting stuff.

------
SeanFerree
Love this! My favorite is the Simple Timeline. Definitely a deadline helps me.
Also keeping tasks simple and completing them step by step is better than
taking on huge tasks all at once. If I feel overwhelmed my motivation
declines.

------
untilHellbanned
overly complicated.

Nike Behavior model is easier: just do it.

~~~
blaser-waffle
Doctor: "don't be sad."

Patient: "thanks I never thought of that. i am cured."

...said no one ever.

------
oxfordmale
I will adopt the Fogg behaviour..... tomorrow.

~~~
vitabenes
What about a tiny step today?

