
Are Rotisserie Chickens a Bargain? - andyraskin
https://priceonomics.com/are-rotisserie-chickens-a-bargain/
======
SmellTheGlove
The value is more than the price cooked versus DIY. To me it's a bargain
because I'll eat something way worse for me if I'm in a rush and there's
nothing available. We don't want to stop at McDonalds because I'm running late
from work, my wife and daughter had an activity until 6, and we already ate
everything in the fridge. Boom, chicken.

EDIT: I don't want to entirely rag on McD's. I lost a bunch of weight when I
was in consulting and ate every meal on the run. Of the fast food chains, they
have some of the most reasonable items with easy math on the calories. Pro
tip: Egg McMuffins and regular cheeseburgers are 300 calories each. I'm not
saying it was healthy, but I did control my calories and lose weight. I am
likely partially embalmed from the trans fat and sodium though. Hopefully we
can agree a supermarket rotisserie chicken is a superior option :)

~~~
lintiness
rotisserie chickens are pumped full of sodium.

~~~
deegles
There is no longer an official upper limit on cholesterol intake, and (for
most people) sodium intake being harmful has also been debunked. Saturated
fats also have been shown to have no link to heart disease.

[http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/02/2...](http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/02/25/new-
dietary-guidelines-fat-cholesterol.aspx)

[http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-
th...](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-the-war-on-
salt/)

[http://www.eufic.org/page/en/show/latest-science-
news/fftid/...](http://www.eufic.org/page/en/show/latest-science-
news/fftid/Study-no-association-dietary-saturated-fats-cardiovascular-disease-
risk/)

~~~
muxxa
I thought the big risk with salt was strokes, not heart attacks:

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782060/](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782060/)

"Results There were 19 independent cohort samples from 13 studies, with 177
025 participants (follow-up 3.5-19 years) and over 11 000 vascular events.
Higher salt intake was associated with greater risk of stroke (pooled relative
risk 1.23, 95% confidence interval 1.06 to 1.43; P=0.007) and cardiovascular
disease (1.14, 0.99 to 1.32; P=0.07), with no significant evidence of
publication bias. ... The associations observed were greater the larger the
difference in sodium intake and the longer the follow-up."

~~~
wahern
Same phenomenon. AFAIU, recent research suggest that the variance seen in such
studies is caused by subgroups with impaired kidneys or other issues that
interfere with blood salt homeostasis.

It's not controversial that sustained salt concentration is bad for
cardiovascular healthy, or that higher salt intake correlates with worse
cardiovascular health in large populations. The issue is whether healthy
_individuals_ should care about salt.

Or to put it another way, salt isn't like sugar. A high sugar diet leads to
insulin resistance, which leads to higher blood sugar concentrations, which
leads to higher rates of related ailments.

It was once thought that a high salt diet directly led to hypertension, etc,
etc. But that doesn't appear to be the case. Healthy people seem to have no
problems clearing an excess salt (in amounts significantly greater than
thought) from the body, even if sustained over their entire lifetime. And,
somewhat contentiously, some research suggests that the recommended salt
intake might be detrimental for some people, with the negative effect being
masked by the subgroup who benefit from lower salt.

That's my understanding of things, anyhow.

It's probably a little like acidosis--a rare condition that gave rise to
fringe concepts like the "alkaline diet". Consuming acidic foods is never
going to cause problems for healthy individuals. The mechanisms for
maintaining blood pH (calcium, rate of respiration, etc) are just too robust
to even be minimally taxed by acidic foods (excluding extreme scenarios). If
acidic foods cause or contribute to bad blood pH, you already have other
serious problems.

The difference is that a substantial fraction of the population does have
trouble excreting excess salt, and this readily shows up in epidemiological
studies of dietary salt.

------
VLM
Something kind of similar goes on in the produce aisle with bags of apples vs
individual apples.

Bags of apples have a very high percent mass loss when peeled and rotted parts
cut off and served into apple pies or apple sauce or canned into brandied
apples and are very small making a huge amount of labor to peel like ten mini
apples per pound.

Individual apples are large and about can select externally flawless apples,
and the surface area to volume scaling means for a given amount of finished
product your compost pile will have maybe half the compost. Also the labor
demand is immensely lower, it takes just as long to peel a baby apple from a
bag that smaller than a baseball as it goes to peel a freakishly large
individual apple thats bigger than a softball.

Solely on price per pound, bags of apples are mystifyingly cheaper than
individual apples per pound, but in terms of final product and factoring in
the labor annoyance of prep time, individual apples are often a much better
deal.

I suppose much as there are people shocked that I find applesauce making and
brandied apple canning fun and recreational and stress reducing, there
probably exist people who are shocked that everyone doesn't find apple peeling
and coring to be meditative and chill. For people who enjoy spending hours
peeling tiny little apples, a 5 pound bag of little apples must be pure joy to
them.

~~~
blakesterz
That reminds me of the pistachios WITH shells Vs. pistachios without shells. A
bag without the shells is way more expensive per pound, but from what I've
read it ends up being a bit cheaper per nut because those shells weigh
something. Plus those things are just hard to get out of the darn shells
sometimes.

~~~
nathanvanfleet
I would say that you should pay a bit extra so you don't have the emotional
cost of having that one pistachio you couldn't possibly open.

~~~
wavefunction
I've opened that pistachio with force. You're better off leaving it closed!

(It seems from my exhaustive studies that pistachios that "won't open" aren't
worth opening.)

~~~
erikcw
Agreed. To me the pistachio that can't be opened is equivalent to the clam
that doesn't open in the pot. Now you won't get sick from the pistachio, but
the quality is never the same.

~~~
raldi
That's an old wives' tale. The clams, mussels, etc that are most resistant to
opening are the ones that were in the best health, and thus the _safest_ ones
to eat.

~~~
erikcw
Source?

~~~
raldi
Just google [unopened clams safe]. It's all over the Internet.

------
Pamar
From the article: _Customers can thank Boston Market—which opened its first
store in 1985 in Newton, Mass., under the name Boston Chicken—for the modern
rotisserie chicken industry._

This was a surprise to me. In Italy "Rotisserie chicken" have been a common
urban offering since at least the '60s, probably even before. No idea about
other parts of Europe or the rest of the world, but I distinctly remember
small stores displaying roasted chickens since my childhood.

The only recent innovation is that you can now find these in larger
supermarkets and that most of the stores are now managed as some franchise.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
I can confirm, Italian, but I grew up in the US. When I was a kid, we roasted
a lot of chickens because la rosticceria wasn't a thing in the neighborhood -
in South Philadelphia or then out in the NJ suburbs. When Boston Market opened
up, we ate a LOT of that.

It was odd to my folks because it's the most basic of prep, and you could
pretty much get a roasted chicken (or many other meats prepped the same way)
on the go anywhere in Italy. It's fast food that isn't total shit.

~~~
pimlottc
Yep, I remember when Boston Market came along in the 90s, it really spread
like wildfire, seemingly overnight. They were quite popular, and no one else
was doing rotisserie chicken at a mass scale like that before them.

------
bluedino
They're an even bigger bargain at the end of the night. When I worked 2nd
shift I would stop at Kroger on the way home at 10:30pm, grab a baguette from
the bakery for 50 cents and a rotisserie chicken for $2.99, both half-price
because I assume they throw them out at closing time. Cheap dinner and lunch
for the next day.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
My local supermarket (Hannaford) starts discounting after the lunch and dinner
rushes by a dollar or two to move the chickens that have been out for more
than a couple of hours. Whatever's left gets chilled and sold in the cold case
at an additional discount later on that night and the next day. Honestly I
think they're a bargain at full price because they're not terrible for you and
they're fast - we don't always have time to cook, and given the alternatives,
it just makes sense to grab a chicken. As a practical matter, we also get
another one on the weekends when we grocery shop, pick it as soon as it comes
home and just keep it in a container for a few days to snack on. Even with the
added "solution" its way healthier than what we'd otherwise get into.

------
xenihn
I greatly prefer rotisserie chickens from grocery stores to baking my own,
just for the convenience. The fact that it's typically cheaper than buying and
baking your own is a huge factor as well.

I really want to recommend trying baked cornish hens at home to anyone who
hasn't eaten them. I buy a 6-pack at Costco for about $18. A single one by
itself is an entire meal for me. If I'm really, really hungry, I'll eat it
with a side like pita bread or rice. Fat, water, and seasoning pool under it
to make really tasty drippings that you can use for either.

They're super easy to prepare and bake. I just spray it with cooking oil, salt
and pepper it, and stick it in the oven at 400F for an hour. The great thing
about it is that it's really difficult to overcook it due to the fat from the
skin, and the small amount of meat compared to a whole chicken, so you can
play around with higher temperatures and times without having to worry about
ruining it.

They taste sooo good, especially the crisp skin. It's one of my favorite
things to eat.

~~~
pc86
> _The fact that it 's typically cheaper than buying and baking your own is a
> huge factor as well._

As stated in the article it's only cheaper if your unit of measurement is a
whole chicken regardless of size. Per pound they are typically 2x more
expensive (or even more).

Cornish hens are my jam, they're great.

------
libria
The chart shows you can save $1-$2 per chicken that feeds about 3 people? I
think it'd be difficult to find 3 people unwilling to chip in 50 cents to turn
a raw chicken into a cooked one. And pricing seasoning ingredients by just the
percentage they used is disengenious. I've never gotten to the bottom of any
of herb bottle before it went stale.

The rotisserie industry is a bargain for consumer and seller. It's easy and
automated for stores to produce at scale and a real time saver for the
customer. Not to mention I can take it prepackaged to a picnic.

~~~
wahern

      I've never gotten to the bottom of any of herb bottle before it went stale.
    

Me too until I discovered Litehouse Freeze Dried Herbs. Normally the bottles
are $4.99 at my local Californian supermarket, but sometimes they're on sale
for $3.99, and the other day they were on sale for $2.50 (I stocked up). I
especially like their freeze dried, diced garlic, which is a darn good
substitute for freshly chopped garlic.

The freeze dried stuff doesn't last forever, either. But the Litehouse bottles
are good size. Even the end of a bottle is more fragrant and tasty than brand-
new dried herbs. And it's super convenient picking more up at the grocery
store.

At $4.99 it's competitive with bulk freeze dried herbs, which made me wonder
if that was a sustainable price. Seeing it for sale at $2.50 I'm even more
convinced that it's not profitable and they're having trouble getting traction
in the market. I'll be sad if it goes away. I've always avoided herbs in my
cooking because fresh herbs are inconvenient; most dried herbs suck; and if
they don't suck they don't last long anyhow. This affordable freeze dried
stuff is amazing, but probably too good a thing.

------
pwenzel
I like to maximize the value of my rotisserie chicken dinner by cooking all
the leftover scraps and bones in a pressure cooker. After an hour, you got
yourself a stew!

Use ice cube trays to make broth cubes and store in the freezer for future
meals.

~~~
IanCal
Whenever getting a chicken it's worth using the bones to make stock
afterwards. We regularly roast a chicken, and then after the dinner we'll
strip the remaining meat off and boil up the bones. Then we can make a chicken
risotto the next day with some lovely rich stock and leftover chicken bits.

Making stock is something I wish I'd started doing a long time ago.

~~~
beachstartup
that stock is also good for cooking noodles, especially asian styles like
ramen or udon but also for western chicken noodle soup or matzo ball soup.

nearly every culture has an awesome chicken noodle dish.

~~~
IanCal
Oh yes. A lovely silky finish to noodles, and always good in soup.

Adding a dollop of really thick, jelly-like stock helps a huge number of
dishes. And it's made from something you'd otherwise typically just throw
away.

------
pcmaffey
I get 5-6 meals out of a $14 organic rotisserie chicken for my wife and I.

2 from the wings and breast. Then we slowcook the carcass into bone broth
which becomes the basis of an awesome soup. I've got thai curry chicken soup
on the stove right now.

------
strommen
Cooking a whole chicken is a major pain. If not for rotisserie chickens, I
would only buy chicken in the form of pre-butchered packages of breasts,
thighs, or legs (and the occasional bag of frozen buffalo wings).

The pre-butchered meat is usually a way better deal. Boneless chicken breasts,
which are the most expensive option, are often as cheap as $3.50/lb - about
the same as a roto chicken. And it's pure meat, extremely healthy, and only
takes 20-30 minutes to cook.

(But when you have a 2- and 4-year-old, sometimes those 20-30 minutes make all
the difference. So I eat roto chicken about once a week.)

~~~
stdbrouw
> And it's pure meat, extremely healthy, and only takes 20-30 minutes to cook.

It is unfortunately also the part of the chicken that is least flavorful.

~~~
maxerickson
Larger packages of boneless skinless thighs are about the same price. They
cook faster.

I guess they tend to have a bit more fat on them than the breasts. And more
fat in them. But not to an absurd level.

~~~
ssharp
Thanks to that extra fat, thighs have the added benefit of not drying out if
you dare cook them past 165. A lot of breasts these days are also enormous and
require extra prep work to make them reasonable to cook.

------
pfarnsworth
Costco rotisserie chicken is probably the best existing deal out there right
now. $4.99 for 2-3 days worth of food.

I infrequently make my own rotisserie chicken and it costs me at least $12,
including chicken, spices, etc.

------
memnips
BUT what about the psychological value of _feeling_ like you're getting a
deal, even if you aren't actually getting one?

E.g. People from this research actually experience more pleasure when they
believe a wine is expensive: [http://time.com/money/3846874/expensive-price-
tag-cheap-wine...](http://time.com/money/3846874/expensive-price-tag-cheap-
wine-brain-placebo-effect/)

> “Expectations truly influence neurobiological responses,” write the authors.

------
dghughes
> Without including the cost of our time, it came to a total of 52 cents.

I think that's the major point for anyone: time.

For the sake of a few dollars my time is more valuable or at least better
spent doing something else.

I think that is also a reason for many thing such as my region where people
hire a guys with a snowblowers to clean out their driveways. Pay $200 for four
months and you don't break your back it's worth it.

------
overcast
At the supermarket Wegmans where I live, an entire fresh rotisserie chicken is
$5. It's a total steal if you're a starving college kid, as you can easily
make a couple meals out of it. These used to be HUGE chickens, however they've
noticeably got smaller, but still easily two meals.

------
honkhonkpants
Store-roasted chickens drive me crazy because every chicken in the case is 4
pounds or more and all the roasted chickens started out smaller. I'd like to
buy a 3 to 3.5 pound bird small enough to roast in a pan but they use them all
and don't sell them.

~~~
aristus
There's a breed called Cornish Hen or poussin, usually 2.5 to 3 pounds. You
might have to search at a fancier store, or like I do at a Mexican butcher,
but they are easy to cook and delicious.

~~~
honkhonkpants
Cornish Hen bothers me because it's just marketing. It's just a young chicken!
It doesn't even have to be a hen! So as a person who appreciates basic honesty
I avoid them. Also we are fortunate to spend the autumn and winter in an area
with actual game birds that are easily taken, and delicious.

~~~
phonon
Ummm...did you ever look it up?

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_game_hen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_game_hen)

"a young immature chicken (less than five weeks of age), weighing not more
than two pounds ready-to-cook weight, _which was prepared from a Cornish
chicken or the progeny of a Cornish chicken crossed with another breed of
chicken_ "

~~~
phonon
OK, I/wikipedia is wrong! The definition has been updated

[http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/fsis-
content/fsis-q...](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/fsis-content/fsis-
questionable-content/oppde/rdad/frpubs/99-017p/default/ct_99-017p)

[https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/9/381.170](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/9/381.170)

 _Current class definitions state that a bird labeled as a Rock Cornish-type
chicken must be ``the progeny of a cross between a purebred Cornish and a
purebred Rock chicken '' (9 CFR 381.170(a)(1)(ii)), or ``a Cornish chicken or
the progeny of a Cornish chicken crossed with another breed of chicken'' (9
CFR 381.170(a)(1)(i)). While this statement was appropriate when these
chickens were originally developed over 40 years ago, today it is doubtful
that any purebred Cornish or Rock lines exist in commercial chicken
production. The names ``Rock Cornish game hen'' and ``Cornish game hen'' are
now used to identify a very young, very small, whole chicken that is marketed
as an individual serving. Although the names refer to hens, either sex can be
used since birds of this class are sexually immature. The names ``Rock Cornish
fryer,'' ``Rock Cornish roaster,'' and ``Rock Cornish hen'' are no longer
meaningful because these birds cannot be reliably distinguished on the basis
of progeny from other existing classes. Therefore, the Agency is proposing to
define the Rock Cornish game hen or Cornish game hen class only in terms of
age and weight and to delete the class of Rock Cornish fryer, roaster, and
hen._

Also of interest

[http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FRPubs/2007-0048F.htm](http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FRPubs/2007-0048F.htm)

 _Cornish Game Hens Comment: One comment from a trade association stated that
the term ``hen '' as used in the ``Rock Cornish game hen'' or ``Cornish game
hen'' class may be misleading because the term hen implies that these birds
are female while the definition states that the birds may be of either sex.
The comment suggested that FSIS change the name of this poultry class to
``Rock Cornish game bird'' or ``Cornish game bird.'' Another comment from a
poultry producer said that the proposed ``Cornish hen'' definition is
inaccurate because it allows industry to call a bird that is not necessarily
Cornish, and not necessarily a hen, a ``Cornish hen.'' The comment suggested
that FSIS add a definition for ``poussin'' to describe the next youngest bird
than the ``Cornish hen'' if the Agency decides to keep the term Cornish hen.
The comment suggested that USDA review the literature produced by the North
American Meat Processors Association (NAMP) as it applies to usage of the term
``poussin.'' According to the commenter, because USDA is attempting to have
its regulations reflect usage in the poultry industry, it must consider not
just the production level, but also the market. Response: FSIS disagrees that
the terms ``Rock Cornish game hen'' or ``Cornish game hen'' are misleading to
consumers and that the Agency should change the name of the class to ``Rock
Cornish game bird'' or ``Cornish game bird.'' The existing terms for this
poultry class, which provides for the use of the term ``hen'' for young
immature chickens of either sex, has been in place since FSIS established this
poultry class definition. The term ``hen'' can be used for immature chickens
of either sex because birds of this class are sexually immature. FSIS is not
aware of any data to support that consumers are misled with the reference to
``hen'' in these terms. Changing the name of the class is likely to spur
confusion. FSIS also disagrees that the proposed ``Cornish hen'' definition is
inaccurate because it allows industry to call a bird that is not necessarily
Cornish, and not necessarily a hen, a ``Cornish hen.'' The existing standards
in FSIS' regulations do specify that a Cornish chicken be the progeny of a
Cornish chicken crossed with another breed of chicken. However, FSIS continues
to believe that it is doubtful that any purebred Cornish lines currently exist
in commercial chicken production today and, therefore, the birds cannot be
reliably distinguished on the basis of progeny. FSIS also disagrees that it
should add a new poultry class that would define poussin. The poultry classes
in 9 CFR 381.170 represent poultry that are typically marketed to consumers
and are more broadly used than the standards for poussin in NAMP's Poultry
Buyers Guide._

------
kin
Relative to whole raw chickens? Sure, rotisserie chickens may not be cheaper
but that doesn't mean their value isn't a bargain.

------
dboreham
They're a bargain at Costco, assuming you need to buy other stuff there,
otherwise the value of time to park and walk to the back of the store might
dominate.

------
dekhn
They're a bargain unless your free time has no value.

~~~
dpim
Some people like cooking and don't see free time as fungible for
work/freelance/learning

~~~
dekhn
Sure, I like cooking too. However, I have a family, a full time job, my wife
has a full time job, and we can't always allocate the time to roast a chicken.

~~~
zeveb
> However, I have a family, a full time job, my wife has a full time job, and
> we can't always allocate the time to roast a chicken.

I'm in the same boat you are, but reading it put like that ('we can't always
allocate the time to roast a chicken') kinda puts it in perspective. That's
_terrible_ , for you and for me alike. 'Doesn't have time to cook a bird'
sounds awful, and is.

~~~
dekhn
Specifically, I mean: after I come home from work/picking up kids, there isn't
really time to cook a chicken. Normally, I plan for this on the weekends by
using my free time to cook items that can be reheated. For example, precook
rice, some casserole. Veggies can be prepped from raw in ~5 minutes using a
microwave. However, by the end of the week, people are tired of leftovers, so
the convenience of being able to get a precooked chicken provides real value.

Note that rotisserie chicken isn't just a cooked chicken. It's been brined for
many hours (it takes time to prep the brine, then dry the chicken after
brining), which makes the meat moist, it's been roasted evenly on all sides
(hard to do without a rotating axle), and placed into a convenient container.

It seems totally reasonable to swap the time to make an item that is pretty
hard to reproduce at home (I don't want to manage a rotisserie or do brining
on a regular basis).

~~~
munificent
> It's been brined for many hours (it takes time to prep the brine, then dry
> the chicken after brining), which makes the meat moist

For what it's worth, there are a number of simple recipes for roasting chicken
that don't require brining or any long marinating period but still come out
nice and moist.

Even a basic roast will be fine as long as you don't overcook it.

~~~
dekhn
Ah, but it's not that simple. A chicken is not a spherical piece of uniform
meat. Getting the temp right and pulling the chicken at the right time (so
that the legs are fully cooked while the breast is not) isn't really easy.
Techniques like spatchcocking make this easier, but it all trades off time and
convnience.

Ultimately, however, brining has outright phenomenal effects on meat
tenderness and moisture that simple cannot be replicated by timing and
temperature changes. It creates complex chemical changes in the muscle that
lead to a far simpler cooking process, and the meat also stays moister longer
than cooking. This is covered in detail in cooking chemistry books.

See, for example: [http://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/injection-
brining/](http://modernistcuisine.com/recipes/injection-brining/)

"Yet the perfect roast chicken is nearly impossible to achieve in practice.
The temperature required to brown and crisp the skin is so high that it leaves
the meat underneath scorched and dry. The dark thigh and leg meat similarly
need higher heat than is ideal for the white breast meat. Brining the chicken
in salt water can help the delicate breast meat retain more juice at higher
temperatures, but the brine has the same effect on the skin, which then ends
up unpleasantly chewy."

This is basically scientific fact: you cannot achieve what you want without
brining without putting in effort and time.

~~~
munificent
> Getting the temp right and pulling the chicken at the right time (so that
> the legs are fully cooked while the breast is not) isn't really easy.

It's not trivial, but I think it's pretty easy after you've done it a couple
of times.

> Techniques like spatchcocking make this easier, but it all trades off time
> and convenience.

Right. I do something similar, though I cut the legs all the way off. It takes
a couple of minutes, but it's pretty simple.

------
quotha
Wow HN, you are eating way too much rotisserie chicken!

