
Renting a Dog - antigizmo
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-01/i-m-renting-a-dog
======
sshine
Would this not have been avoided if companies were mandated by law to
advertise the full cost of their installment plans in their ads? In Denmark
(and presumably in many other countries), this is the case for anything from
cell phone plans to dish washers. I.e., you can't just say how little you have
to pay each month and over how many months and hope that people don't multiply
the numbers.

~~~
maxlybbert
It's an issue of state law. I believe every loan I've signed included a
section saying how much I was borrowing, and how much it would cost to pay it
back following the payment schedule.

(EDIT):

I don't know if similar laws apply to leases, although car lease commercials
usually have a similar section in the fine print. Usually that means at least
one state requires the disclosure.

~~~
MBCook
There are federal laws covering that.

Which is ALSO why they're very clear this is a lease and they seem to be
trying to ensure it is seen that way. They don't want to fall under those
laws.

------
maxxxxx
This particular problem can be solved by going to a pound or a rescue. You get
a nice dog for free. There is no need for ever going to a breeder.

~~~
ytjohn
For me, the most startling part of the article wasn't the insane lease
financing, it was the up front "sticker price". $2,400 for a dog, $1,700 for a
cat. I've generally known that some people pay a lot of money to buy a certain
type of dog from a breeder, but I was thinking it was more in the mid 3-figure
ranges (I think I've seen ads for dogs around $400 - $600). I have considered
that a ridiculously expensive price. I'm speaking someone who makes pretty
good money, owns two houses, three vehicles (for two adults). But seeing that
people pay thousands for a pet. It's like this whole other world of
exorbitance. They're not paying for a pet, they're paying for something to
brag about.

> A good breeder will also want to keep track of the pup and will also offer
> you a contract to protect you both and make sure your dog is healthy or will
> explain its conditions. Bulldogs are very special dogs and people who own
> them are just as special. [1]

Generally, if you go to a pound/rescue, your costs will be around $100, most
of which are to pay for things like de-worming and stuff you would incur in a
visit to the veterinarian.

1:
[https://www.suburbanbullies.com/whydobulldogscostsomuch.html](https://www.suburbanbullies.com/whydobulldogscostsomuch.html)

~~~
Bluestrike2
It depends on the breed and what you're looking for. My parents have always
been huge dog people, and they've had a number of dogs over the year. Some
were from registered breeders; others were rescue dogs, including two that
they rescued. One was a wonderful dog whose bastard owners tossed him out of
car going 30 miles an hour on a highway where one of their employees saw it
and brought him to their workplace. At the other end of the scale, they paid
something like $1500 and $1000, respectively, for mother and son Cavalier King
Charles Spaniels from a licensed breeder a good ~18 years ago. The price would
be higher nowadays. An Alaskan Klee Kai (think small dog resembling a Siberian
Husky, but responsibly bred and without the ethical and health problems of a
so-called 'Pomsky') will run a good $2-3000.

Is it worth it? Again, it depends on what you're looking for and whether
you're able to afford the dog in question. People purchase particular purebred
dogs for a lot of reasons; there's a far greater degree of predictability when
it comes to genetic risks, life span, size, temperament, etc. due to a _lot_
of collective knowledge. Reputable breeders socialize their dogs from the
beginning, provide care, and they usually have already started the training
process well before it's time for placement. With rescues or mixes in general,
there are more unknowns though good shelters do their best to isolate those
unknowns and help find the right home based on what they do know about the
dog's background and have observed regarding its temperament. The unknowns
might be scary at times, but it doesn't make the dog lesser. I'm typing this
with a rescued mixed-breed terrier sitting beside me.

What really pisses me off about this story is the cruelty of the threat of
repossessing an animal for both the animal and the family. No dog deserves to
be ripped from a loving home and tossed into a shelter (even a good one); or
worse, a pet store. Especially the kind that would suggest a freaking _lease_
to a potential pet owner. It fits right in with the worst excesses of puppy
mills. Plus, I have my doubts about the quality of care a company like this
would provide to repossessed animals. It seems more like a disgusting effort
to cash in on spur of the moment purchases, taking advantage of a lack of
knowledge about both the finance agreement and owning a pet in general.
Wunderlich even admits as much in the article: "We like niches where we’re
dealing with emotional borrowers."

If you can't afford to pay cash to adopt the pet, or use a credit card you can
pay off quickly without negatively affecting your overall finances, you
shouldn't jump on long-term financing or this lease BS as an alternative. It
isn't a smart option, financially or emotionally. There are a ton of wonderful
rescues of all sorts who can be adopted at very minimal cost. You have the
added benefit of supporting some very respectable organizations that often
struggle to fund their operations. And if you're looking for a particular
breed of dog, there are often purebred rescue organizations that focus on
specific breeds and often work closely with their respective breed clubs.

------
fake-name
> “We like niches where we’re dealing with emotional borrowers,” Wunderlich
> said.

Jesus Christ, what an exploitative asshole.

This is the canonical definition of a predatory scumbag. He's _deliberately_
targeting people at a highly emotional point, to rope them into a exploitative
contract. Plus, who has even _heard_ of "renting" a dog?

I'd bet the great majority of the people involved assumed the paperwork was
just for vet bills and such relating to the dog. By targeting a niche where
such a loan practice is rare/nonexistant, they probably expect much less
scrutiny of the underlying contracts.

I bet his buisness would vanish if they forced him to put "Dog Lease Contract"
or something similar in 70 point text on the paperwork people have to sign.

> He’s drawn to the rugged individualism expressed in the novels of Ayn Rand
> and the blog Cowboy Ethics

Surprise level: zero.

> He is, he writes in a mission statement on his personal website, “living in
> a Postmodern culture while maintaining my old American West roots and
> Christian values.”

"Christian", but apparently having never read the bible at any point
([https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple)).

What a thoroughly unpleasant person.

~~~
escherize
> He's deliberately targeting people at a highly emotional point, to rope them
> into a exploitative contract.

I assume you mean it's exploitative on the customer? If two parties
voluntarily enter an exchange, who are you to say that it's exploitative? I'm
genuinely curious.

~~~
ssalazar
If one party leaves the store not realizing they'd signed a lease agreement,
then two parties have not voluntarily entered an exchange.

~~~
xyzzy4
If one party has to make monthly payments, then what else do they think it is?
And how can adults in this world not understand how interest rates work.

~~~
MBCook
A loan. That's that standard way you'd get a loan. And a loan would make more
sense too since it's (theoretically) a good you keep forever.

~~~
xyzzy4
Sorry, my bad. For some reason I thought these were loans and not _actually_
renting.

------
downandout
The worst part of this is the implied threat that failure to make payments
will result in your beloved dog being taken away from you. They didn't say it
in the article, but I would bet almost anything that the company that gave
them a $75 million credit line believed, probably correctly, that default
rates will be lower than average because of this threat.

The repossession of a car might result in some inconvenience. The reposession
of a dog will almost certainly result in severe emotional distress, especially
since many people consider their pets to be their children. Not cool.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Even people that just rent them? I'm thinking that's a self-selecting
demographic, that operates a little differently. They lack commitment for
instance. Probably not terribly uncool after all.

~~~
TeMPOraL
People do get attached with time though. Especially when the emotions are
high, which seems something the company selects customers for.

I remember when I was a teenager and my mother bought us a cat. Until she came
home with it, my reaction was "why don't we spend cat food money on a better
Internet connection instead?". After it started living with us, I attached to
it very quickly and couldn't imagine it not being there.

(In fact, that cat died recently. It was a hard emotional moment for myself
and my whole immediate family.)

~~~
JoeAltmaier
I'm so not surprised about the internet part. Just from what I can learn from
posts on HN.

We also have had cats. The boys are long grown and off, and there is a row of
stones in the orchard representing valued family members Frekls, Salm and
Francis.

------
tomlock
>In another idea that never reached the market, he explored lease financing
for funerals.

>“We like niches where we’re dealing with emotional borrowers,” Wunderlich
said.

Well, fuck this guy. There is a clear difference in power and knowledge in the
people offering, and the people taking, these loans.

~~~
lowglow
Yeah, I read that and immediately said "yuck." to myself. What a way to prey
on people. Yish.

------
TeMPOraL
Dog _leases_ , targeting "emotional borrowers", lease financing for
_funerals_? What the hell did I just read?

That is literally the weirdest thing I found on HN this year...

------
civilian
Man. On one hand, I like the idea of loans and leases, to help people who
can't currently buy something get something they want. It gives greater access
to products, which seems like a good thing.

On the otherhand, it seems like people just aren't responsible enough to deal
with it. They're no the rational actors that my free-market economic paradise
needs. :-/

~~~
TeMPOraL
Your free-market economic paradise could work without perfectly rational
consumers if there weren't so many "entrepreneurs" out to exploit them :/.

------
canadian_voter
tldr; read and understand what you're signing before you sign it.

 _Then, too, they would swindle you with the contract--and how was a poor man
to understand anything about a contract? It was all nothing but robbery, and
there was no safety but in keeping out of it. And pay rent? ...

So long as they paid, however, they had nothing to fear ..._ \-- Upton
Sinclair, _The Jungle_ , 1906

------
tmnvix
I'm not at all surprised that the person behind this is a fan of Ayn Rand.

This sort of predatory behaviour should be illegal.

------
maxlybbert
Every state I've lived in has laws requiring certain disclosures for leases
and other disclosures for loans. Those disclosures include things like "you're
entering into a lease" or "you're borrowing money."

------
cwkoss
What a scumbag business.

~~~
brudgers
On the scale of scumbag such as payday loans and auto title pawn and buy here
pay here car sales and check cashing services, not really. There are dogs at
the pound up for adoption as a market place alternative to pure bread puppies.
There are not alternatives to food and potable water and heat and prescription
drugs.

~~~
int_19h
This is a very different kind of scumbag. This one is preying on customers in
emotional distress (he actually says so himself!), and of course the threat of
having your dog taken away if you don't pay up is a lot more emotional than
most other forms of repossession.

------
mdekkers
_“Also this cat is ruining my credit score.”_

As all cats do one way or another :)

------
nom
I don't want to say it but I really want to slap Wunderlich's smug face.

This is disgusting.

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jeanfrancohs458
Wow, I think this is super crazy

