

The Anatomy of an Entrepreneur (2009) - charlieirish
http://www.kauffman.org/research-and-policy/the-anatomy-of-an-entrepreneur.aspx

======
jacquesm
Having a supporting spouse, a couple of kids and a mortgage are enormously
motivating so this should come as no surprise. My first real business success
happened roughly a year after my first child was born and I think that the
biggest factor there was that having a kid made me realize that playtime was
over. Nothing tells you to get serious as much as a tiny person that is
utterly dependent on you for their every need.

The HN illusion is that all successful people are in their low 20's and make
billions (ok, that's a bit much but you get the idea), the reality is that
they are the outliers and that your chances of finding success by some measure
is higher later in life.

But those are not the average applicants to YC.

Beware of seeing everything through a HN/YC colored lens, there is a far
larger world out there with an untold number of paths to success, HN is a
great community, YC an awesome program if you fit their target demographic but
these are not at all the only options.

~~~
AngryParsley
"this should come as no surprise"? To me, the 60% figure seems like an
invertible fact.[1]

Imagine the article said, "75% of successful entrepreneurs are single." People
would post comments similar to yours, but with other rationalizations for why
the fact is true. "This isn't surprising. Single people have more free time."
"This shouldn't come as a surprise. Single people don't have to worry about
providing for a family." "This doesn't surprise me. Single people can take
more risks."

We like to project an unsurprised, unperturbed, and confident attitude. But
thinking "I knew it all along" can be dangerous.

The number of hindsight-biased comments _do_ surprise me a little. I expect
more from our community. The world is complicated, and our minds can't model
it accurately all the time. Paradoxically, we should expect to be surprised.

1\. See <http://lesswrong.com/lw/im/hindsight_devalues_science/>

~~~
jacquesm
> The number of hindsight-biased comments do surprise me a little.

We all comment from our own experience, and as such these are anecdotal bits
of evidence rather than hard data. Not every HN post starts out with a double
blind study over a statistically significant portion of the population with
splits per level of affluence and further splits to offset for geographic
diversity.

> I expect more from our community.

Sorry to disappoint you.

A community is the sum of its individuals, and slightly larger than that if
you're lucky with the communities that you are part of. As such the way to
improve on the status quo is to lead by example.

Looking around me at the 100's of business people that I have contact with the
vast majority (much larger than the 60% quoted here) of people with some level
of success is in a relationship and a not-so-vast majority (but still
substantial) have kids and are living a relatively steady life.

For me the young kid that strikes it big is the exception, and as such I am
not particularly surprised by this outcome.

It would be much more surprising to me if the opposite were the case, your
'75% of successful entrepreneurs are single' example would _really_ turn my
head because it goes directly against my personal experience.

That's not hindsight, it is just reasoning from available data and I see
absolutely nothing wrong with that.

We should expect to be surprised, but that does not mean that we have to
actively twist available data so that we're surprised all the time.

Sometimes a result is simply what is to be expected and I firmly believe this
is one of those. But I can see how to some people here this comes as a
surprising result because of the echo chamber aspect of being focused solely
on a single community, especially one that contains a pretty substantial bias
because of the company sponsoring that community.

------
epaga
I don't understand people's issue with this statistic. It's not implying
causality of any form.

It's simply saying: "the common idea that the only successful entrepreneurs
are workaholic young singles working days and nights is actually a
misconception. Proof: 60% of successful entrepreneurs are married with
children."

That's not bad statistics, it's completely helpful, if nothing else for
confirming a suspicion you may have had anyways.

Bad statistics would be saying "so in order to be more successful as an
entrepreneur, get married and have a kid."

------
pg
I would be cautious about drawing conclusions about startups from this study.
Startups are such a small subset of newly founded businesses that unless a
study is very careful about how they select their sample, they're likely to
get mostly ordinary businesses. And judging from what the people who did this
study say about how they selected their sample (see page 8), it sounds like
that's what happened. They say they "extracted randomized records by region."
Randomization is not the way to select a population who by definition are
outliers.

~~~
pav3l
>Randomization is not the way to select a population who by definition are
outliers.

How should the study have been conducted? It is not obvious to me why
selecting a random sample is not representative.

~~~
pg
I wasn't suggesting they should have conducted the study differently, just
that if they sampled businesses generally rather than startups specifically,
their conclusions about entrepreneurs don't necessarily apply to startup
founders.

------
gsk
This is in-line with my own experience as a 37 year old founder (married, one
child).

The biggest hurdle is "lack of willingness or ability to take risks" and the
biggest advantage is "Professional networks". Most often, this is reversed if
you are a young founder.

------
kayoone
60% had atleast one child when they were founding their first company, but
that doesnt tell if they were still happily married after a few stressfull
years of running their companies.

~~~
meaty
I've run two companies, have 3 children and have been happily married for 15
years. It wholly depends who you and your spouse are and how much time you put
aside for your family. Your family are more important than any business
venture - that's the key to success. Also don't base any relationship on
financial benefits - many a time we've had literally nothing to this point we
had to eat on 12GBP a week for a couple of months and put every bill off and
that's not been a problem because we're good company for each other without
any tangible items to amuse us.

~~~
kayoone
That is superb and i didnt want to imply that its not possible with my
comment! There are a lot of factors in play and it can all work out very well!

That being said, i started my first real company when i was 6 years into a
strong relationship. 2 years later the relationship is gone and the company
failed to catch on. I dont regret it and am still motivated to start new
things, if anything this only made me stronger but it was very tough going
through it!

------
tpatke
The survey included 5 high growth industries: aerospace, defense, computing,
electronics, and health care. For me, personally, the only industry I am
concerned about is computing. Including datapoints from outside my industry
muddies the water. ...making it difficult for me to extract anything useful
out of this study.

For example, starting an aerospace or defence business might be easy if you
have the right contacts - just win a government contract. ...something which
is probably more likely to happen for older married men.

~~~
davidw
Does it really make a difference anyway? If it were 70% for the computer
field, would you rush out and marry someone and get her pregnant as soon as
possible? Or if it were better to be single, would you sit your wife and kids
down and explain to them that to maximize your chances of success, they're
being "downsized"?

------
bdcravens
I see a lot of folks jumping to explain away this article. My opinion is that
a lot of the HN crowd believe that they are disruptors, bucking the trends. As
a 35 year old married guy in Houston, reading HN tends to give me the idea
that if I'm not in my early 20s and willing to drop it all and move to SF and
work for at least 1/2 of market rate for a funded company building a social
product that focuses on traction as opposed to revenue ... then my ship has
sailed. Articles like this are a nice reality check.

------
dmor
Kauffman wonk reports make me want to stab my eyes out.

But while you're here learn about the awesome entrepreneur who created the
Kauffman Foundation, which is now the largest organization dedicated to the
advancement of entrepreneurship ($2bn endowment)
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewing_Marion_Kauffman>

------
akurilin
I suspect there's no causation relationship between the two.

I remember reading some time ago (no link, sorry) that older, more
experienced, wealthier and better connected entrepreneurs will on average
outperform the stereotypical 19 year old college dropout that we on HN love to
talk about. It just so happens that as you move towards the 40s and 50s you
are very likely to get married and have children, but they themselves are not
the cause of your success.

------
Jarihd
Most Entrepreneurs are married - i guess is because they tend to marry
first(the teen-age effect) and later on in life start up with some business;
also i guess they have successful business(60% as above) as they tend to
devote more time to business than family later in life.

I would seriously like to know:

1) How many entrepreneurs start up a serious business first and then get
married - Do they prefer girl-friends over a wife ???

2) Having got married - are they able to devote the same time to their
business

3) Are they able to devote equally good time for children, wife and
parents(when they fall sick)

4) Are children, wife and parents happy with these entrepreneurs

5) Do these Entrepreneurs always have a supporting wife and supporting
children OR are have their wives and children compromised on their own
personal life for the success of the entrepreneur

Professional life and Personal life are two different things.. when you
combine both; they together make up "Life" - or what accounts to as "Time of
one's life"; and when one talks about both together; what one implicitly is
talking about is one's "Happiness".

6) So, After 25+ years into entrepreneurship does the entrepreneur repent on
having wasted life(time) OR is really happy thinking only about their business
achievements.

7) How many such entrepreneurs having 25+ years of experience are truly happy
with their professional life as well as personal life(wife, children, parents,
friends). do we have any such numbers.

------
cientifico
If you can not make a relationship works. How the hell are you going to be
able to direct people, or drive a project?

~~~
randomdata
The biggest challenge in marriage is managing the external expectations. The
shape of a marriage is strongly defined by social pressures and there is
little room for personal problem solving within that framework.

Business, on the other hand, is all about unique problem solving. Eccentric
ideas that lead to success are celebrated and considered genius. It would be
quite easy to believe someone could thrive in this environment while failing
in marriage.

------
wololo
Here is the document (2009) they are summarizing:
[http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedfiles/researchandpolicy/thes...](http://www.kauffman.org/uploadedfiles/researchandpolicy/thestudyofentrepreneurship/anatomy%20of%20entre%20071309_final.pdf)

------
rb2k_
> Nearly 70 percent were married when they became entrepreneurs, and nearly 60
> percent had at least one child, challenging the stereotype of the
> entrepreneurial workaholic with no time for a family.

The question is if that's more or less than the national average.

~~~
hooande
"Although only 51 percent of American adults are currently married, 72 percent
have been married at least once." [1]

Tricky number. Roughly three out of four of people get married, but as we know
half of those marriages end in divorce. The number of entrepreneurial
americans is "somewhere in there" (within +-1 std) so I think it's safe to
call it a push.

About 0.34% of people start businesses, a small enough sample that it's hard
to draw any sweeping conclusions [2]. It's probably safe to say that starting
a business doesn't have a serious impact on the prior or posterior probability
of marriage.

[1] [http://www.livescience.com/17462-record-number-americans-
unm...](http://www.livescience.com/17462-record-number-americans-
unmarried.html)

[2] [http://www.inc.com/news/articles/201103/entrepreneurial-
rate...](http://www.inc.com/news/articles/201103/entrepreneurial-rate-highest-
in-15-years.html)

~~~
flyinRyan
> but as we know half of those marriages end in divorce.

I'm not sure that's true actually. My feeling is that there are "serial
divorces" who have 5+ failed marriages and drive the numbers way up.

------
tcgv
That would be more meaningful if they provided us the anatomy of entrepreneurs
in general, successful and unsuccessful. Then we would be able to find out if
there is a correlation (not causality) between being married with children and
being a successful entrepreneur.

------
refactormonkey
Just because you have wife and kids doesn't mean much.

How much quality time can you afford to spend with them if you are trying to
build a successful business at the same time?

What I found interesting was: "Founders tended to be middle-aged—40 years old
on average—when they started their first companies.".

I always thought that starting a new company was driven by the fire of youth,
but it seems like it is mid-life crisis that may also be responsible in many
cases.

~~~
adrianhoward
_How much quality time can you afford to spend with them if you are trying to
build a successful business at the same time?_

The flip side of that is that older folk are more likely to have had the time
to learn the most effective ways to manage their own time, had the opportunity
to get the kinks out of managing people, delegating tasks, hiring people, etc.
Makes it a lot easier to get the space for quality time (and, indeed, realise
that quality time is _necessary_ for you to be the most productive in anything
but the very short term).

So, for me anyway, the answer is "quite a bit thank you" (Helped by the fact
that we run the business together ;-)

 _I always thought that starting a new company was driven by the fire of
youth, but it seems like it is mid-life crisis that may also be responsible in
many cases._

Or maybe it's having more experience in judging whether something is likely to
be successful or not. I was _much_ less nervous starting a new company this
year than I was the last time in 1999. Large chunks of the fear go away with
the addition of experience.

------
elliotlai
40% of Successful Entrepreneurs are NOT Married with Children

------
bnegreve
> [...] nearly 60 percent had at least one child, challenging the stereotype
> of the entrepreneurial workaholic with no time for a family.

Well, this has to be compared with the number of people in their 40 that are
married w/ children. And I wouldn't be surprised if this number was above 60%.

------
JimWestergren
I think the correlation is like this:

It is more older than younger entrepreneurs that have reached success and are
considered successful. And we know that it is more older that are married and
have children.

BTW: I am 30, happily married and with 2 children.

------
chrisblackwell
I find it hilarious that all of these articles feel they need to explain how
to be successful, and how to grow a startup.

Nobody wants to believe that the real secret is absolute determination,
dedication, and a lot of hard work. It just can't be that simple!

------
petrel
That is really a good news for every married man, mostly for those who think,
life is more thought after marriage.

------
readme
For anyone reading this saying "That's not me" just remember... YOU ARE NOT A
STATISTIC

------
zerostar07
Isn't that the average for the general population? I guess entrepreneurs are
human too.

------
zyb09
Only 60%? 60% isn't really that high of a number to make a point here.

~~~
adrianhoward
_Only 60%? 60% isn't really that high of a number to make a point here._

Depends on what the reader's preconceptions are :-)

I know I encounter a fair share of idiots who think I'm too old to start a new
company in the tech sector because I'm in my forties.

------
hiddenfeatures
I need a child. Anyone got a spare one for me? :-)

~~~
sayYaeah
Does this also apply to women?

------
bluedanieru
What percentage of people who are not successful entrepreneurs but fit the
other criteria i.e. middle or upper-class background, 40 years-old on average,
high academic performance, are married and with children? Is it more or less
than 60%?

~~~
patio11
Substantially less. Four year degrees alone upper bound that at about 20~25%
of the population, depending on what age cohort you use. As you add additional
constraints the intersection only ever gets smaller.

~~~
dexen
The question could be phrased better, but the gist is: (number of married with
children) / (number of members) in the population of ``middle or upper-class
background, 40 years-old on average, high academic performance''. I.e., does
being an entrepreneur correlate positively or negatively with having children,
among the mentioned group.

------
madaxe
60% of pilots wear grey socks. Wearing grey socks makes it more likely you'll
be a pilot.

Nothing to see here, move along.

~~~
gurkendoktor
If there was a widespread hunch that wearing grey socks is detrimental to a
pilot's job, then that would indeed be newsworthy.

------
camus
And how many cheat on their wife ? come it doesnt mean anything.

CORRELATION never means CAUSALITY , are we on a serious site or on the daily
mail ?

~~~
flyinRyan
[http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...](http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/10/correlation_does_not_imply_causation_how_the_internet_fell_in_love_with_a_stats_class_clich_.html)

------
sami36
SO WHAT ? these numbers are pointless. I get it, they're trying to say that
entrepreneurs are not unwashed hardened singles with no chance at a meaningful
family life. I think this is misguided on so many levels.

1- Marriage is not an end goal for everybody. Sorry. Actually, the
proliferation of divorces, close to 50 % despite the extremely high barrier of
exit from that transaction should give you an idea. That's not even taking
_affairs_ into the equation.

2- So is having children, not that there is anything wrong with having kids.
but the notion that not having kids is missing out on anything is false.

The essence of entrepreneurship is disruption, it's time our social norms
evolve from their 50s fantasies & catch up with the reality of modern life.

~~~
jacquesm
> The essence of entrepreneurship is disruption

No, it really isn't. It's about getting $Y out for every $X in where Y > X,
and doing that in a sustainable and preferably an ethical manner.

Disruption is the exception, not the rule in entrepreneurship, and success is
simply (Y/X) * volume processed * lifespan of project. Some would even say
that success is the net cumulative effect on society but that's a lot harder
to measure. You could for instance make this about jobs created or amount
donated to charity or something like that but most people simply use the
formula above or some variation on it.

~~~
sami36
I beg to disagree. I think you're conflating entrepreneurship with business.

an entrepreneur would only assume the rather significant risk if the
likelihood of payout (as denoted by your clever equations)is high enough. in a
capitalistic society such as ours with millions of established businesses that
would entail either 1 of these two options.

1- Make the way things are done normally, better. (Fedex vs USPS)

2-Do a completely new different thing (Facebook.) Both options are disruptive,
although at different levels.

~~~
jacquesm
> I think you're conflating entrepreneurship with business.

And I think you're conflating competition with disruption.

Entrepreneurship and business go hand in hand, you can't have the one without
the other. Someone that risks their personal fortune to open a hamburger stand
by your definition is not an entrepreneur, by my definition he or she is. And
that's before we look at the possible futures where that hamburger stand ends
up as a chain of stores because he innovated on quality or was exceptional in
service.

Disruption is not Fedex vs USPS, it's not Facebook competing with myspace for
eyeballs. Disruption is AirBNB threatening the established interests in the
hospitality industry, napster making record execs very worried and EasyJet
causing increased blood pressure with all their fat cat competitors.

Disruption by definition can only come when a market is established, but it is
definitely not a prerequisite for entrepreneurship or running a successful
business.

~~~
sami36
I duly note that you don't think that either Facebook or Fedex are disruptive.
by that definition of _disruption_ , sure. Entrepreneurship is not disruptive.
I rest my case

