
Defense Distributed’s New 3D Printed High Capacity Gun Magazine ‘Cuomo’ - jalanco
http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/02/defense-distributed-unveils-new-3d-printed-gun-magazine-cuomo-video.php
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knowaveragejoe
Does the slippery slope argument hold any water here? With the legal framework
and technical implementation in place for regulation of 3D printing, what's to
stop a situation analogous to Internet piracy...?

~~~
gnu8
Piracy illustrates the fact that it's not possible to regulate 3D printing,
but even if it were possible, it would be 100% wrong.

I don't know how it ever became generally accepted that every possible object
and action must be regulated by the nanny state. Pretty soon that idea will be
dead forever.

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brazzy
> I don't know how it ever became generally accepted that every possible
> object and action must be regulated by the nanny state.

Strawman. That's not generally accepted, not even seriously _suggested_ by
anyone except strawmen-builders.

The generally accepted idea is that it's the job of _any_ state to regulate
actions that cause serious harm to people.

Disagreements abound about what actions exactly count as causing harm, and
what form the regulations should take; specifically how far they should go in
_preventing_ such actions instead of just punishing them.

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nirvana
" it's the job of any state to regulate actions that cause serious harm to
people."

Shooting someone is already a crime and always has been.

Posessing a magazine with more than 7 rounds is not an action at all, and does
not harm anyone.

The reason the parent used the word "nanny state" is because he's describing
laws that prohibit things for which there is no victim.

Possessing a magazine does not cause harm to anyone. There are already laws
against causing harm to people.

~~~
brazzy
>Shooting someone is already a crime and always has been.

However, punishing people who do it does not make those they shot come back to
life. Preventing harm is generally much more desirable than punishing those
who cause it afterwards. And no, punishment does not do much to prevent mass
shootings. Not having a large magazine IS it least somewhat effective to limit
the damage one person can do.

Now the question is what preventive regulations are effective and whether
their side effects are accceptable. I do have to wonder what exactly are the
unacceptable side effects of disallowing large magazines.

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largesse
And this is how 3D printing becomes regulated out of existence.

~~~
rdl
I think once 3D printing gets good, there will be a lot of things more
"legally interesting" than guns to cause regulatory issues.

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Nrsolis
You don't need 3D printing to make usable firearms parts.

Example: <http://aresarmor.com/>

Go head and read some of the info on this company, which is selling parts that
are unfinished components of an AR-15 rifle. Essentially, they sell you an
_almost_ complete lower receiver (the part the ATF considers to be the "gun"),
and you use some supplied jigs and a drill press to finish the job. Presto:
untraceable, unserialized rifle unencumbered by federal rules on firearms
regulated by interstate commerce.

Remember prohibition? They used to sell "grape juice concentrate" that could
be mixed with water, stored in a jug for an appropriate period of time, and
presto: wine.

All you need is a reasonably substantial proportion of the population willing
to conspire with each other to avoid/subvert/ignore the law and you've got
status quo. IMHO, restricting access to firearms will have a measurable, but
ultimately negligible effect on death by firearms in the US.

~~~
rdl
The one part of a firearms system which can't be relatively easily made by an
individual in a decentralized way is primer (it's super sensitive and also
toxic chemicals). Propellant/powder is also difficult to make cheaply and
well.

It's not really an issue as long as some firearms (and thus some ammunition)
is relatively unregulated; you could easily have a world where only single-
shot hunting weapons are available, then use the ammunition from those (either
intact or by disassembling and reloading) for other weapons.

Still, I aspire to owning an ammunition company; I wish ATK were for sale.

~~~
slurgfest
You say that everything but primer could be relatively easily made by an
individual in a decentralized way. Do you mean a skilled machinist with
excellent tools? I would have imagined that making a reliable reusable weapon
required a number of small parts with rigid tolerances. Is that not the case?

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jlujan
The barrel is probably the only part that has "rigid tolerances". The AK is
famous for a stamped receiver with minimal machining.

<http://ultimak.com/AKReceiverID.htm>

~~~
rdl
While barrels benefit from quality (and even things like titanium firing pins,
$200 special wooden grips, $3000 optics, etc.), I am confident I could show a
minimally literate 8th grader how to make a serviceable open-bolt fully
automatic weapon (say a 9mm SMG I guess) with a random high school machine
shop in 3 days, capable of firing <4 MOA, >900fps muzzle velocity, >95%
reliability with Wolf 9mm ammunition for 500 rounds.

Basically the same thing was done in WW2.

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nirvana
FWIW "High Capacity Magazine" is a loaded term. The AR system was issued with
30 round magazines so, these are normal capacity. But calling them "high
capacity" is what people who want to ban them do to pretend like there's
something unusual about them.

For anyone whose wondered why "gun nuts" want these "high capacity" magazines,
the answer is very simple: Loading a mag is often a pain in the butt. It's a
lot more fun to go to the range with a bunch of loaded magazines, shoot for
several hours and then go home, rather than be loading magazines every 5
minutes. It's that simple. (Though of course there are cases where people have
needed the higher capacity, like the recent news story about the shop-keeper
who defended his store and customers with a pistol with 17 rounds.)

"Assault Weapon" is another made up term to make guns sound scary. Most people
seem to think there are people running around with full auto machine guns out
there.

In the 1990s the ban on "assault weapons" prohibited cosmetic and safety
items, not anything that made guns more lethal. (EG: flash suppressor lets you
not get blinded when shooting at night, "grenade launchers" are just tubes on
WWII era weapons, grenades themselves long being made illegal, but the media
loves to talk about the police discovering "grenade launchers", pistol grips
and collapsable butt stocks are just ergonomics, the former promoting better
form.)

Lately the popular term is "assault rifle" which have been effectively banned
since 1934, and their manufacture totally banned since the mid 1980s. Plus if
we're strictly speaking that term only applies to a particular rifle produced
in germany in WWII.

The reason for this dishonest use of political terms is really easy: There's
effectively no difference between an AK-47 and a hunting rifle, except that
the AK has been demonized.

Previously demonized weapons: The "sawed off shotgun" which was a modification
made by italian shop owners who wanted to be able to defend themselves against
the mafia shaking them down, but didn't want to penetrate the wall and hit
innocent bystanders. Thus shortening the barrel, which produces a wider spread
and less collatoral damage. The mafia couldn't have that, so they got their
politicans to demonize and then ban them. Racist gun control.

The "saturday night special" was nothing special at all, just the more popular
firearm for poor black people living in dangerous areas to defend themselves.
They couldn't afford more expensive firearms and they had a real need to
defend themselves from the criminal elements, but we couldn't have that, could
we? It's not a coincidence that the ghettos have become overrun with violence
since the "saturday night special" was criminalized.

I could go on, the entire gun control political movement is based on
misrepresentation (eg: "glocks are all plastic and undetectable by airport
scanners!" which has never been true) and the ignorance of the general public.

Guns kill people like spoons make people fat. It's non-sensical, and proof
positive that politicians don't have your best interests at heart when they
say "oh, little girl, you should just get raped, rather than defend yourself
with a pistol", which is what they're doing here.

~~~
achy
That analogy is ridiculous. It's more like having a tub of ice cream and a
spoon available at all times. It doesn't make you fat, but if you're depressed
or vulnerable, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to take a bite.

~~~
__--__
Your analogy is also ridiculous. You're suggesting that taking a bite of ice
cream and shooting somebody are morally equivalent.

~~~
brazzy
no, the person he replied to suggested that.

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flexie
Great. Even easier access to guns is just what America needs.

[http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/1...](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html)

~~~
nirvana
Compare that number to the 1,500,000 times a year, according to the DoJ, that
guns are used defensively by intended victims to stop violent crime.
Constantly talking about how many people have been killed while ignoring how
many have been saved is profoundly dishonest.

The rate of violent crime in the USA is around 640 per 100,000 while in the UK
it is closer to 2,500 per 100k.

Clearly banning guns doesn't lower violent crime. In fact, in the UK, after
they banned guns, violent gun crime skyrocketed.... because the criminals knew
that their victims were disarmed.

~~~
showerst
Do you have a cite for that 1.5MM/year?

The best numbers I could find from DOJ are from 2000, and suggest it's around
100,000.

[https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:419E8WPZxdkJ:...](https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:419E8WPZxdkJ:home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/Crime_and_Justice_gundefense_2000.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESioVHArQ0x6EMy1Ey4s6iuI3bTm6sgM6bxwjdSPX1BEh2BLNIw59H5_H8Cduf4MsotZ-X7-32FxTqU9gHbMWymRBsi_T4ShmiqfuFkPJRQMK1f4hb5yVErz2fJD_bUGpZkp_UuV&sig=AHIEtbSyrvICxjDop3P-omDg5h-pRj-I0w)

