
HP Updates MacBook-Imitating Envy Range - swombat
http://www.trustedreviews.com/laptops/news/2010/05/06/HP-Updates-MacBook-Imitating-Envy-Range/p1
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yread
Well if they during the copying lowered the price and added USB3, VGA and HDMI
out and choice of beefier CPUs and GPUs, I don't see how anybody can complain
:)

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nkohari
I didn't think the new MBPs had USB3?

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nkohari
Really not sure why I'm getting downvoted, because they don't have USB3...

[http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...](http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?mco=OTY2ODExMA)

~~~
semanticist
No, but these HPs do. You misread the post you were replying to.

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corruption
I used to be into high end audio, and spent rather large sums acquiring great
looking machines. When apple first came out with their brushed metal cases, I
assumed that Apple had simply copied luxury audio manufacturers of the day.

I still don't know why other computer companies don't try and design beautiful
machines that have minimalistic design principles.

Here are some earlyish examples I was talking about, but there are plenty more
from other companies who I have long since forgotten:
[http://www.pliniusaudio.nzld.com/photolibrary/photo.asp?id=h...](http://www.pliniusaudio.nzld.com/photolibrary/photo.asp?id=history_sareference)

~~~
chime
I thought Apple was inspired by Braun products from the '60s:
[http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-
secr...](http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-
apples-future)

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babakian
Yes. It is a safe to say that Jonathan Ive has studied the work of Dieter
Rams. When it comes to industrial design, Dieter Rams is one of the greats.
There is nothing wrong with being inspired by him. It is important to note
that this inspiration goes beyond the industrial design of Apple's hardware.
For example, it is widely agreed that the iPhone's calculator app is based on
the Braun ET66 calculator, designed Rams:
[http://barryborsboom.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/172_721-ram...](http://barryborsboom.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/172_721-rams-
iphonecalc.jpg)

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MWinther
The calculator app doesn't look like that now, though, even though it's
clearly inspired by it. I believe I have seen that design on the iPhone
before, but when I bought my 3G two years ago, I believe the buttons were
square and the '='-button was bigger. Did it look like that in the original
iPhone?

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arch_hunter
I'm sorry, but I do not see how that is a copy of a MacBook. I have seen a lot
of laptops that look more similar to that than that looks to a MacBook.

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nailer
Apple seems to have been the first to use a unibody metal design specifically
for a laptop. Since Apple did it first, HP could be considered to have copied
by some people.

Then again Porsche Design did the same thing for mobile phones years before
Apple or any other consumer electronics company did - my personal opinion is
that Porsche did most of the innovation in this area.

~~~
jacquesm
> Since Apple did it first

Errm, not really, there was at least the Panasonic toughbook and lots of other
ruggedized laptops before it.

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nailer
I always thought the Toughbook (or at least the ones I've seen) was a multi-
panel ruggedized laptop, rather than single chunk of metal.

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jacquesm
It's been a long time since I last saw one, I don't even know if they're still
being made, but I recall the case being milled out of a chunk of magnesium
alloy.

Maybe I'm wrong though, as I said it's long ago.

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mbenjaminsmith
They're made out of magnesium and are multi-part. The trick is they make the
internals somewhat waterproof (at least water passes through quickly) and
suspend the entire mobo on rubber shocks.

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SandB0x
And Apple copied their keyboard design from the Vaio and the world keeps
turning.

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goodside
Which model? Did Vaio later revert back something more conventional? As of
2007 Apple was using the same layout they have now and Vaio was using a fairly
mundane PC laptop configuration. Side-by-side:
<http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/19478.jpg>

Or is there some feature in particular that was copied that I'm not seeing?

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yread
Sony was using it in 2004 in this amazing notebook
[http://www.trustedreviews.com/laptops/review/2004/06/03/Sony...](http://www.trustedreviews.com/laptops/review/2004/06/03/Sony-
VAIO-VGN-X505VP-Ultra-Slim-Notebook/p1)

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rossj
Meh. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU>

I like Apple, but not everything they do is original either.

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cturner
Will all of the hardware features function properly in a unix (or unix-like)
OS? That's the apple laptop feature I'd like to see their competitors copy.

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mquander
It was shaky for a while, but yes. I run Ubuntu 10.04 on an Envy 15 and it
works well. The two caveats are that kernel 2.6.33+ is necessary for patches
related to the BIOS and ACPI, and a patch to synaptics drivers is necessary if
you want the touchpad to work properly.

~~~
cturner
That's better than I've seen. What I'd be after to complete that is some sort
of confidence that I'd be able to upgrade and have things continue to work.
I've had the experience a lot of going to great effort to get something to
work.. and then doing a kernel upgrade and having stuff break again.

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studioprisoner
I love how the range is called Envy as well. Fitting, isn't it?

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barredo
Well, it certainly looks more like a MBP than previous version. Aside of that:
«Imitation is the sincerest of flattery»

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TimMontague
I wish HP would copy Apple's webpage too... It's practically unusable.

<http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/envy/>

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loumf
""Great artists steal" - Pablo Picasso" - Steve Jobs.

It's not the copying that he'd probably find offensive -- it's the screwing it
up (hinges and what's up with the keyboard recess)

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matthijs
Not sure if this is still the case, but with the hp laptops I own (especially
ugly with the small HP mini's) the laptops looks good but they add the HUGE
ugly power adapters.

With my hp mini the adapter is like 3/4th the size of the laptop itself. It's
those details (a pretty big one in this case) that makes Apple products so
good. Apple's MagSafe is awesome.

~~~
Tichy
Apple used to have really, really big power adapters, too. The one for my Mac
Mini (G4) is enormous. The one for my MacBook is not especially tiny, but it
is OK. YMMV.

~~~
semanticist
That's only the case for the Mac Mini and the G4 Cube - Apple's portable power
adapters of that era are pretty much exactly the same as they are now
(excluding the fancy MagSafe connector, of course).

I have both a 2004 model iBook (pre-intel) and a brand new 2010 MacBook Pro
and the adapters look the same.

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epi0Bauqu
FWIW, I have one and love it. SSD, high res, long battery, looks nice.

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AngryParsley
I'm confused. Engadget's review of the current Envy 15 says it lacks an
optical drive and has a battery life of less than 2 hours.
<http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/10/hp-envy-15-review/>

It's a similar story for the Envy 13 ( <http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/hp-
envy-13-review/> ). 2 hour battery life (estimated 5 hours with the huge
battery). No optical drive. Terrible trackpad.

~~~
epi0Bauqu
I have the Envy 13t. It comes with an extended battery that fits over the
whole bottom of the computer. There's a pic in that engagdet article
([http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/10/hp-
env...](http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/10/hp-
envy-13-review-04.jpg)). This makes the battery life for me more like 8-10hr
and you can't even tell the battery is on there, i.e. its flush.

No optical drive but I literally never use CDs so I don't care. The trackpad
doesn't bother me that much. I'd say it isn't the greatest, but its multi-
touch and works fine.

It's also quiet and fast. Not sure how much of that (if any) is due to the SSD
or my other particular specs.

• Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo SL9600(2.13GHz, 6MB L2 Cache)w/512MB ATI Mobility
Radeon(TM) HD 4330 Graphics • 3GB DDR3 System Memory (1 Dimm)

~~~
shoover
If HP has indeed caught up with Apple on battery life and overall noise,
that's the real story here.

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jteo
There is no such thing as an original idea. (And yes, I use Apple products)

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eightbitraptor
I don't really care how many PC manufacturers try and copy the MacBook Pro,
but why has no so far managed to make a decent unibody PC laptop? IMO _that_
is the real desirable feature of a MacBook.

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sz
I suspect it has to do with differentiation.

By trying to make a product too similar to an Apple product a manufacturer
would open the door wide open to valid criticism about being an Apple knockoff
company. By doing something different, they have claim to their own identity.
But since (almost) nobody can beat Apple at design, that difference manifests
itself more in getting more performance per doller (=cheap construction) or
lots of products with special features (e.g. gaming machines).

Also it takes time to develop mass production capacity for something with a
very different manufacturing process.

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joshu
Out of the last three HPs I have purchased, all have died. Never again.

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randallsquared
Why'd they wait until _now_ to start copying Apple's design? We're well past
the all-metal laptops that were the height of Apple's design prowess. I bought
the first model of PB17 purely on design, even though it was only about as
fast as an Intel-based laptop I'd had for a year and a half. But after an
iteration or two of improvement, they threw that design sensibility away to go
with plasticky stuff. ;)

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mogston
Good on them...now PC owners can own a nice looking laptop too! (I'm a MacBook
Pro user btw)

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vondur
The old models were horrible. No optical drive on a 15" laptop and the
software used for the trackpad was horrible. It looks like they remedied the
optical drive issue, I'd have to see if the trackpads work better now.

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l0nwlf
I feel Alienware too is a desirable laptop albeit its domain is quite narrow
[and yes the HP laptop looks a clone to me, physically at least]

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manish
With a sticker saying "Built for Windows 7"

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Tichy
It's a notebook.

