

Crunched - JRM
http://mattmaroon.com/?p=290

======
koolmoe
I think the Java vs. Flex debate is out of place here. The way Matt's comment
re Java fits into the discussion has more to do with the amount of attention
that most Fantasy Sports providers are giving to the domain. In that context,
I think Matt is on the money. The big providers are not keenly focused on the
problem. I'm an avid fantasy sports fan, and my experience has been far from
optimal.

The killer part of the app is that it offers the ability to bet online and get
quick gratification. Draftmix hits the action player's sweet spot, and I
suspect apps in this area will drastically outperform their season-long
counterparts. Anyone familiar with gambling economics knows that the action
players and casual gamers drive the economy.

The argument about skill vs. chance in the comments of the TechCrunch article
is interesting. I think it's easy to make a compelling argument that success
in the short term format might require more skill than season long formats,
but legislators have demonstrated that compelling arguments hold less value
than one might think they should.

~~~
mattmaroon
I agree re: skill in short format leagues. What it would come down to, should
we ever end up in court (which we're taking great pains to avoid) is
convincing a jury that we meet whatever test their state applies to a game to
determine if it is a game of skill or not.

We're staying away from states where that test is too stringent (i.e., many
states ban games that involve any luck at all). In the ones in which we
operate (39) the test is typically that luck is the predominant factor. We
feel that given a large sample we can mathematically prove that a player can
win over time regardless of luck. We're certainly seeing that so far.

~~~
greendestiny
How do those jurisdictions judge betting on the result of a match? Picking
players on their teams likely performance would surely be a significant part
of the game.

Although given that what you're doing isn't odds adjusted, it's probably not
that great a comparison.

~~~
mattmaroon
That falls under the purview of traditional online sports betting which is
illegal in every state but Nevada (where it is legal intrastate with tight
regulations).

~~~
greendestiny
Yeah either way I think its fairly clear draftmix should be considered the
same as any other fantasy sports league. I guess my point is that betting on
the result of a game is usually accompanied by odds to increase the luck the
component, and fantasy sports doesn't.

You'd think picking week by week would control the randomness, certainly
you're much less likely to be hit by an injury which would be one of the
largest random components. Also players tend play well or badly in patches.

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drubio
Litigation in the making...

All the major sports leagues are notorious for protecting their brands and
trademarks -- NFL, MLB, NHL,etc -- , simply look at the licensing deals some
sites like Yahoo have needed to go through. And to top it off, they are mixing
in virtual dollars (gambling) into the mix, which has been under fire recently
in the U.S.

Its an untapped market for sure, but a snake-pit in litigation issues. May be
the next YouTube you never know, but I doubt it, the sports leagues are more
aware of the online world the movie studios.

~~~
mattmaroon
That battle has already been fought and won by another fantasy sports company.
See CBC v. MLB.

------
ed
"The rest of the group was laughing at how the article was focused around me,
as if I created the whole site myself."

Matt you've got to learn to better appreciate your team, future Steve Jobs or
not.

~~~
russ
It doesn't stop at non-appreciation. Matt literally beats team members when
they can't get features completed on time. I can post my bruises to flickr if
you want?

~~~
mattmaroon
Bitch, I told you, I only beat you because I love you.

------
tlrobinson
I'm sorry, but no one has the right to compare themselves to Steve Jobs.

~~~
pg
<http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=metaphor>

~~~
dfranke
Zinger thief!

<http://reddit.com/info/wbt3/comments/cwc5a>

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fleaflicker
An Applet is not the programming equivalent of a phonograph.

I haven't been able to get an invite so I don't know how draftmix works. But
using an applet for the live draft client gives me a huge advantage--I can use
the same exact code on the client and server sides.

I assume you're using Flash on the client and something else on the server.

This means you have to maintain two versions of the same exact code. Every bug
you find has to fixed twice.

-Ori <http://www.fleaflicker.com/contact.do>

~~~
mattmaroon
It does require separation of code, but not twice as much debugging. Every bug
does not have to be fixed twice. It's similar to MVC architecture in a way,
with the flex client being the view. I'd be surprised if the bug fixing isn't
actually easier due to the separation.

Also, your goal in a startup is not to make it easy for you to code, but to
make it easy for your users to play. (You only do the former where it assists
with the latter.) Java does not accomplish that. People don't want to piss
with JRE. It is a bloated nightmare that crashes people's systems, nags them
about updates, slows down bootup, etc.

Everyone has Flash. In fact, more people have flash than javascript (turned
on) making it the most commonly accepted environment. It and AJAX are really
the only acceptable choices for a live draft.

~~~
mynameishere
Don't get into language wars when you're trying to sell a product. Obviously,
Java applets work for yahoo and for the people who use yahoo games, so people
are evidentally able to tolerate "bloated nightmares".

Applets have clunky startup/shutdown processes. That's their main problem.
Aside from that, they duplicate the desktop experience quite accurately,
unlike Ajax, which is a permanent kludge.

Plus, how else are we going to play Kid Icarus without applets:

[http://www.davieboy.net/play/game.all.play.asp?rom=11.zip...](http://www.davieboy.net/play/game.all.play.asp?rom=11.zip&name=Kid%20Icarus)

~~~
trajan
I could be wrong, but I don't think you've done many Yahoo fantasy drafts if
you think people are really OK with the draft interface. The reason I've
continued to use the site over the years is more that the rest of the
interface isn't that bad and that the alternatives are worse.

~~~
mattmaroon
I agree. I'd be curious to see what you think of ours.

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axod
I'd agree about applets. They look ugly in the main, trying to make them not
look ugly and out of place is very hard. Startup time is very slow, and they
do stick out like a sore thumb saying "1990s! 1990s!"

If a website is slow, and looks ugly users are going to be less likely to use
it.

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nickb
Matt, how many hits did you get from being t'crunced? What's the return
visitor rate?

~~~
mattmaroon
Actually, less than I got from here (by far). But I got a hell of a lot of
random contact emails from people wanting to sell me stuff, wanting a job,
wanting to explore a partnership, and potentially even to invest. Very odd.

~~~
nickb
Hehe... TC seems to attract a lot of weirdos :)

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Harj
what % of users in this market do you think care whether their fantasy sports
site uses a java applet or flash?

~~~
Alex3917
Because all sports fans are dumb?

~~~
alaskamiller
Because when you're trying to pound down a nail, it doesn't matter what you
use as a hammer.

~~~
mattmaroon
But if presented a hammer and a screwdriver, you'll use a hammer as a hammer
every time. So why give people a screwdriver?

~~~
russ
I dunno Matt...I'd much rather get wasted than work as a carpenter.

~~~
mattmaroon
I guess I hadn't thought of it that way.

