

Getting employed at a hot startup: the free trial method - tomhoward
http://bijansabet.com/post/606671077/a-guest-post-about-joining-a-startup

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mseebach
This is so unscalable, it's a non-starter. This guy got a job because he had
already proven himself by making an app, and a combination of persistence,
boldness and luck. The work for free part removed a friction-point in the
hiring process, but I think it's a safe guess that it wasn't the primary
factor in securing him the job.

The method should be, "if you're closed to be hired somewhere, but feel
there's some friction for the company to make the decision, offering a free
trial might work."

And of course there's the back of the medal: offering to work for free sends
very strong signals of desperation and placing a low premium on your own
abilities.

Offering to work for free does _not_ significantly reduce overhead.
Introducing a new hire to the project, code, repository, bug-tracker and
reviewing his work IS overhead. Saying "Hi, meet Nick, he flew in on his own
dime to do your jobs for free" to the team is a morale-killer. Killing morale
IS overhead.

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sachinag
Last time I checked, it was illegal in the United States to work for a for-
profit company for free ("volunteer"), which is clearly what this guy did. Now
if Boxee/Spark has a legal opinion saying otherwise, great. (Even better if my
crappy Chicago lawyers were wrong about this, too.)

But if they were right, if Nick ever gets fired or leaves on bad terms, I'm
pretty sure he has an open-and-shut case to get back wages (plus punitives).

~~~
joubert
Is that under anti-slavery laws?

~~~
tokenadult
It's a consequence of fair labor standards laws. For example, the minimum wage
is higher than zero.

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jonknee
That's gotta be a big hurdle to overcome during salary negotiations... By
working for free you've already set the bar at the floor.

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j_baker
I don't like the idea. Working a month for free says more about my current
financial situation than it does my ability as an employee.

~~~
dustingetz
are you alluding to unemployment? many (most?) good engineers have some money
in the bank.

~~~
j_baker
No, I'm alluding to having to work for 30 days without pay. I won't agree with
anyone whose opinion of a good programmer depends on how much money they have
in the bank.

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mahmud
When did they realize he was good enough to hire?

How could anyone allow someone to work unpaid for more than 4 hours? If I was
Boxee and saw this guy was competent, by looking over his shoulder within
hours of handing him a spec, I would immediately put in the paperwork to bring
him on something minimal, ~$20/hr.

Seeing someone labor for you for 29 days, before deciding to hire on the 30th
is just .. evil, imo.

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goodside
There's an alternative that does the same job but with no dubious legality,
less personal expense, and more flexible hours: write something awesome on
your own and include a link to the github repo on your resume.

~~~
ojbyrne
Not to mention that you retain ownership of something awesome.

------
tomhoward
To people who aren't reflexively dismissive, this isn't a story about
exploitation or desperation, it's about determination and standing out from
the mediocre crowd.

As PG often says, YC looks for founders who are _smart and determined_. The
best early-stage employees also need to fit that description, so aspirants
need to figure out ways of demonstrating those qualities.

Of course when everyone starts doing it, it'll stop working, and smart,
determined guys like Nick will figure out some new way of hacking the
recruitment process.

~~~
mseebach
The willingness/ability to work for free doesn't even _begin_ to correlate
with smart and determined.

~~~
tomhoward
Sigh...

I thought I could give readers enough credit to not have to spell it out.

\- Starting out with a track record of building an impressive startup and/or
products;

\- Seeking out the #1 company in the world he wants to work for;

\- Calling the CEO to introduce himself then carefully crafting an email to
express his intent and his offer;

\- At his own substantial expense, travelling to NYC to spend 2 weeks in the
company's office in the hope of proving himself;

\- Spending his time carefully observing how the place operates and figuring
out how best he could be of value;

\- Persisting with the strategy until he achieved his goal;

\- Ultimately, receiving recognition of his talents and being offered a
permanent position.

Are you not able to identify in any of these 7 points, any hint of
determination, intellect or talent?

~~~
mseebach
Fair enough - I only just now realized that it's only the HN headline that
focuses on the working for free part.

~~~
tomhoward
Hah! Pardon me for assuming you'd actually read the post before writing a
4-paragraph comment dismissing it :D

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jkaljundi
Isn't it usually vice versa, companies not finding great employees? If you are
a good and self-confident is the free trial needed? Don't think so.

~~~
Tichy
I like the idea of companies paying me one months salary for free to make me
interested in working for them.

~~~
ojbyrne
And, in fact, many do (signing bonuses).

~~~
Tichy
But that is if you sign? I was thinking they would pay me the money as a test,
and then I would decide if I would like to work for them or not :-)

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sanj
One problem is that only the wealthy can really pull this off.

And I've found wealthy != hungry.

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dustingetz
_"In the end, it took a few weeks before I could start. And then I stuck
around working longer than the two weeks we’d planned and then it took another
few weeks after that for a job offer to be made and another few months to get
started."_

it almost sounds like they were reluctant to hire him.

