

Judge Alsup orders Oracle, Google to disclose paid advocates - ben1040
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/08/name-your-shills-judge-orders-oracle-google/

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noonespecial
I've been getting this feeling lately every time Alsup steps up like this. At
first I couldn't quite put my finger on it. it was more than just "finally
some sanity for that patent stuff."

I figured it out today. When Alsup shows up, its like suddenly there's an
adult in the room.

------
ConstantineXVI
For what it's worth, PJ directly says[0] Groklaw has "no financial ties to
anybody".

[0] <http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20120807180515808>

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benologist
I think he's going to be sorely disappointed - Google doesn't have to pay
anyone, they're one of the easy categories tech blogs ride for easy traffic
and this case has provided especially good fodder for them to convert into ad
impressions.

~~~
joe_the_user
Uh, Alsop has to issue order for both parties but the implicit target is
Oracle and some would claim, Florian Mueller.
[http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/07/judge-hey-oracle-and-
google...](http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/07/judge-hey-oracle-and-google-turn-
over-the-names-of-your-paid-bloggers/)

~~~
benologist
Mueller outed himself _4 months ago_ so it seems a bit unlikely that he'd be
the target of an order now. It does make a nice hook for the tech rags though.

~~~
jlgreco
Maybe the judge is looking for a confirmation from Oracle on the record, for
some sort of legally reason?

(IMNAL, obviously)

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guelo
I would love to find out if there's any paid influencing going on here at HN
or reddit. I would not be surprised.

~~~
jrockway
What sort of paid influencing do you think would happen on HN?

~~~
guelo
Just general defending of a company's positions. A good reputation among
engineers is very valuable to these companies.

~~~
vibrunazo
The biased comments here are too childish to smell professionalism and
probably hurt the brands more than help. Florian posts are extremely
professional and often fool many readers and even other professional bloggers.
Compare that to the average HN/reddit trolls. [1] Huge clear difference, I
doubt any of them are professionals.

[1] <http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=taligent>

~~~
joe_the_user
But your argument cuts both ways. If a poster doesn't seem professional, then
they do seem "real" and showing you have real fans may seem useful to
companies.

Apple in particular probably doesn't need that but a company like, say,
Microsoft might feel they'd benefit having trollish fan-boys making their case
(making them, indeed seem more Apple-like), since they also wouldn't have to
answer for the arguments of these "obviously unprofessional" fans...

------
vibrunazo
> "be of use on appeal or on any remand to make clear whether any treatise,
> article, commentary, or analysis on the issues posed by this case are
> possibly influenced by financial relationships to the parties or counsel."

I spent a few minutes googling around for "remand" but I still cannot
understand what this means. Could anyone please translate this legalese and
explain why exactly does Alsup wants them to disclose paid bloggers?

~~~
guelo
When an appellate court sends a case back down to a trial judge to reconsider
a decision or retry the case.

------
microtherion
Wonder if they mention the EFF, which has received at least $1 million from
Google this year:
[http://epic.org/privacy/ftc/googlebuzz/EPIC_Google_Buzz_Sett...](http://epic.org/privacy/ftc/googlebuzz/EPIC_Google_Buzz_Settlement.pdf)

It's been argued that such class action settlement, where the defendant
essentially gets to pick which advocacy organizations they "settle" with, more
or less amount to disguised funding of such organisations:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4316764>

------
joe_the_user
I wasn't alone when I called Florian Mueller an Oracle shill way back when.

<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4014814>

Now things are getting really exciting.

------
Alterlife
Does it matter? Articles and commentary shouldn't influence the outcome of the
case.

Patent Law isn't a matter of public opinion... or is it?

~~~
malandrew
Law, in general, is a matter of public opinion.

~~~
fleitz
And if the opinion of the majority doesn't work for your case, you can seek an
appeal to the court of social justice for the opinion of the minority.

------
batgaijin
If they mention Groklaw...

~~~
SwellJoe
I'd believe that Oracle has employed people to attack PJ's integrity, before
I'd believe that PJ is in the employ of Google.

There's a problem with making these kinds of vague (and not so vague)
accusations against PJ in a place like this. Many of us remember the SCO v.
IBM case, and have been following Groklaw for _years_. SCO tried slinging the
same kind of mud at PJ you're slinging now. None of it stuck, because it was
obviously unfounded and obviously disingenuous.

~~~
madrona
I've noticed that the attacks are quite vague and consist of demanding some
sort of proof that PJ is not engaged this or that (e.g. eating babies.) Also,
there's some ridiculous notion that she hides behind a pseudonym because she
uses her initials as her nom de plume. See:
<http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4014768> , you might want to select the
page text so you can decipher the downvoted comments.

~~~
lmm
"PJ" really is a pseudonym (and I think it's fair to call it that even if we
now know who she is); per her own post
([http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20050414214437...](http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20050414214437589))
she'd originally intended to remain anonymous.

