
Verizon backs Ubuntu smartphone - tanglesome
http://www.zdnet.com/verizon-backs-ubuntu-smartphone-7000017954/
======
u2328
I'm bored by Ubuntu, much less the promise of a Ubuntu smartphone. I thought
the appeal of Ubuntu was that it was a freedom-respecting but user-friendly
alternative to Windows and Mac. Turn out, their Unity interface ships your
desktop search results off to Amazon and tried to sell you something when
searching for a program or a file on your system.

So, for a Ubuntu phone, at least on the privacy/respect front, it's no better
than Android. Android has better support, has a ton of third party support and
the weight of Google behind it. Can anyone explain why should I switch to a
Ubuntu phone?

~~~
pilgrim689
I think its killer feature is how it's an all-in-one OS. In you pocket, it's a
smartphone; docked, it's a complete linux desktop environment.

~~~
u2328
I thought that was a feature for 'Ubuntu for Android' (a different product). I
could be wrong, but I don't see that feature available under the 'Ubuntu
Phone' list of features.

~~~
socceroos
It's right here on the Ubuntu Phone homepage:
[http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/operators-and-
oems](http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/operators-and-oems)

~~~
jiggy2011
Running a full unity desktop on your average smartphone would be dog slow.
Looks like the idea is to use it to deliver thin client services.

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dave1010uk
It seems a shame that the backing of a network operator is still required to
successfully sell a hardware device in this day and age (especially in the
US). It's like only being able to buy a Thinkpad if your broadband supplier
will sell you one. I look forward to the day when most phones are not tied
into contracts, but I think I may be waiting a long time.

~~~
rogerbinns
Note that implicit in the deal is that the carrier provides support. You can
take the phone to the store and ask questions, or call them. For faulty
hardware they will replace it (warranty services). The carrier will typically
also do insurance for those that want it. The consumer has an ongoing
relationship with the carrier. It is hardly surprising phones mostly get
bought that way.

There is no such relationship with the phone manufacturers or retailers, with
the Apple exception, and even they depend on carriers. (You can fairly
accurately predict Apple sales by how many carriers carry the devices.)

Note that being available on a carrier doesn't automatically lead to success
(eg Blackberry and Nokia are available on about 3 times as many carriers as
Apple is). However it is a prerequisite for getting a foot in the door.

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worksaf
The problem is that any Ubuntu phone that is released will likely be just as
locked down and filled with bloatware as everything else with Verizon.

~~~
daed
iPhone doesn't come with bloatware? Why couldn't Ubuntu pull that off as Apple
has? Less bargaining leverage, I guess...

~~~
worksaf
Well the iPhone didn't come to Verizon for years because Apple would not let
Verizon put its bloatware on the phone. Verizon only caved because Apple sales
were so strong. iPhone only comes with Apple software, you have to manually
download any Verizon apps.

My parents both got Androids recently, and while you can "hide" the pre-
installed bloatware you still can't delete it. It took me about 30 minutes to
clean the phones of all the widgets and crapware.

As the newcomer, a Ubuntu phone really wouldn't have any bargaining power and
would be as bad or worse than Android.

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pajju
I don't like the way there are going with Network operators. Depending on a
network operator is adding bloatware and less control, more fragmentation and
hardware innovation.

Rather, How about they start a fund raising campaign or a Kickstarter - use a
crowd-funding platform?

I will love to pay them.

Just to add: I'm mind blown after I switched to Ubuntu a year back. They
already have numerous fans like me and Professional users, enterprises who
trust them now, even the Server editions.

I would love to see Ubuntu grow independently! Go Ubuntu go, raise money, grow
fast.

~~~
Mikeb85
They really should. If a bunch of ex-Nokia employees can form Jolla, and not
only create a device but create as much interest as they have for it, I don't
see what's stopping Ubuntu.

It's fairly easy these days to get a Chinese company to assemble any type of
hardware for you, if you can commit do a decent sized order...

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ealexhudson
They've announced a number of companies to join their CAG. What is missing so
far is any firm commitment that anyone is going to release one of these
devices; without stuff likely to ship I don't see much likelihood of app
developers doing anything on this platform.

~~~
rogerbinns
Apple making an interesting contrast. Carriers that sell the iPhone have to
make a sales commitment to Apple that about 10% of their subscribers per year
buy an iPhone. The notable carriers that do not carry the iPhone balk at this:
[http://www.asymco.com/2013/01/17/the-iphone-
moq/](http://www.asymco.com/2013/01/17/the-iphone-moq/)

Making that minimum order quantity means the carrier has to actively promote
and support sales of iPhones.

As you state, I doubt the CAG includes any form of minimum order quantity,
which means there aren't any incentives for the carriers to promote the
phones. Canonical rather than the carriers will need to do demand generation.
Samsung has a fairly high cost of sales (~25% compared to Apple at 10%). And
nobody plays until you are spending a billion or more in advertising:
[http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/02/the-cost-of-selling-
galaxie...](http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/02/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies-
updated/)

Firefox phone at least has the advantage of hundreds of millions of Firefox
users which allows a degree of familiarity and awareness. By comparison Ubuntu
is a rounding error.

Canonical have a massive hill to climb here. The CAG is at the base of the
hill. I wonder what their strategy will be?

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Apocryphon
The race for third place is heating up! It's very interesting to consider
Ubuntu Touch vs. Firefox OS - what happens when two platforms backed by two
champions of FOSS come into conflict?

Not that conflict is inevitable, and it's explicitly against the public
mission statement of Mozilla, at least, but these platforms will still be
competing with each other for the few devs and consumers who reject both iOS
and Android (and WinPho, and BBOS, and Tizen...)

~~~
tombrossman
It is two 'champions of FOSS' but only one clear winner for us privacy-
conscious users.

Long-term Ubuntu user here looking forward to retiring my Android phone for a
Firefox model. I just got a Nexus 4 for my wife and for the first time ever
didn't replace my phone at the same time.

If Firefox releases something a bit higher-end in the next 6-9 months I am
very likely to switch.

~~~
portmanteaufu
I'm pretty torn about Firefox OS.

On the one hand:

* Mozilla's at the helm. My privacy is more likely to be respected. * Whipping up Firefox OS apps is stupid simple.

On the other:

* They don't seem to want to target higher-end handsets. * There's no NDK and as far as I'm aware there are no plans for one. While most of my Android apps could be rebuilt easily in Firefox OS, the programs with 3D graphics or C library dependencies seem to be out of luck. * As an extension to the above, I can't write Firefox OS apps with Rust, which is shaping up to be a great language.

~~~
kryptiskt
Thing is, there's nothing else that runs natively, it's just Gecko on
SurfaceFlinger. FirefoxOS' UI is entirely implemented above that in HTML+JS.
So there is no infrastructure that can be opened up to allow native apps, it
would have to be written from scratch.

~~~
padenot
Nope, we hit below SurfaceFlinger. gralloc and direct gl, actually.

~~~
kryptiskt
Ah, thanks, I thought SurfaceFlinger was kept from Android.

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quackerhacker
I'm very happy about this. I've been hoping for Ubuntu's mobile OS to catch
on, since it doubles as a desktop. Ubuntu's concept (an actual pocket PC), is
where I see the next move in mobile computing actually going.

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nell
This might be a bad thing for Ubuntu. Verizon will preload crapware onto the
phone to death thereby negating whatever value proposition the OS has.

~~~
rogerbinns
I doubt whether it is even a "thing" for Ubuntu. In Verizon's shoes I'd
certainly claim this, if only to harass existing suppliers to get a better
deal from them!

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shmerl
Would be good for T-Mobile to back Jolla ;)

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Mikeb85
So there's going to be a bunch of carrier crapware, Amazon search results and
ads, and no doubt the instability that Ubuntu is known for. No Java/Dalvik,
just QML, HTML5 and QT.

I'd rather go with Jolla for a hacker's phone, or just stick to Android.
Ubuntu's been dropping the ball alot lately, and their phone project looks
DOA...

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jebblue
I'm encouraged but I watched the video here:

[http://www.ubuntu.com/phone](http://www.ubuntu.com/phone)

We can't lock the phone? The phone decides how to search? Developers empowered
by Java on Android would have to go back 1 or 2 decades to C or C++ to make
apps?

That's sounding pretty limiting.

~~~
mdeslaur
Yes, you can lock the phone. The main programming environment is QML, not C or
C++.

~~~
jebblue
The way I heard Mark state it, it sounded like you don't lock the phone and
sounded specifically to me like you can't lock the phone. He mentioned C/C++
within milliseconds after mentioning QML. If QML is sufficient for achieving
what Java can great, for those people who want to go back to Qt. I think Qt
went out with Nokia. Why didn't they choose Gtk? Why not Java for the
language? Why re-invent the wheel with their own thing like Google is trying
to do with DART? Java and Gtk rock and should be at the center of Canonical's
universe.

~~~
socceroos
To see Ubuntu's phone lock feature, please see this:
[http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/07/pinlock-feature-demoed-
on...](http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/07/pinlock-feature-demoed-on-ubuntu-
touch)

