
Google Acquires Makani Power And Its Airborne Wind Turbines - psawaya
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/22/google-x-acquires-makani-power-and-its-airborne-wind-turbines/
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Enginoob
I work for one of the biggest global wind turbine manufacturers. On one hand I
recognize that this is exactly how disruption happens- small player with a
tremendous idea and the opportunity to utilize wind resources in areas where
traditional turbine designs can't be sited.

On the other, I don't envy the engineering team their road ahead- I see
firsthand how many challenges we face every day with "ground-based" turbines,
and have an inkling of how difficult an engineering challenge this will be.
Best of luck to them- anything that pushes renewables forward in a meaningful
way is a win for everybody.

~~~
mc-lovin
While I'm sure they will face many challenges, what they are doing is not the
equivalent of putting a ground based turbine in the air.

Their "wing" is the equivalent to a part of a turbine blade, and it moves in
circles like a turbine blade would. The propellors in the wing are what
extract the energy, but they would not be nearly as big as the blades on a
conventional wind turbine.

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rdw
Great news for the folks working at Makani! I hope Google continues to develop
the product. Every time I've spoken to anyone at Makani, about tether
materials, motor design, carbon fiber manufacturing, whatever, they've known
their shit very deeply. They've really beaten a path through a lot of
untrodden ground to get to where they are, I hope the product gets off the
ground (literally!)

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brandoncor
For those that have a subscription, The New Yorker did an interesting profile
of Makani in the 5/20 issue:

[http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/05/20/130520fa_fact_...](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/05/20/130520fa_fact_specter)

Apparently Montague was actually seeking funding to create a kite-boat (he had
previously help establish kite-boarding), but it was Larry and Sergey's idea
to go down the wind energy route.

~~~
cloudwalking
Tangential: Larry is an avid kiteboarder.

~~~
ozchrisb
So is Sergey.

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riggins
reminds me of a passage from In The Plex

 _Over the years Winograd had become an expert at figuring out where students
stood on the spectrum of brainiacs who found their way into the department.
Some were kids whose undergrad record was straight A pluses, GRE scores
scraping perfection, who would come in and say,“What thesis should I work on?”
On the other end of the spectrum were kids like Larry Page, who would come in
and say, “Here’s what I think I can do.” And his proposals were crazy. He’d
come into the office and talk about doing something with space tethers or
solar kites._

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johnvschmitt
Saul Griffith (co-founder of Makani) is a far more valuable asset than just
the tech/product here. He's very active, collaborative, & well respected in
the Maker community.

~~~
MattGrommes
Is Saul still involved at Makani? I haven't seen him mentioned in the news
stories about the purchase and Makani is listed as one of the things he's done
in the past on his website. The awesome things he could do at Google is one of
the first things I thought of but haven't gotten any confirmation that he's
going with the company.

~~~
ozchrisb
Nope, Saul has his own ideas lab called otherlab. He hasn't been involved in
Makani for several years.

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joeag
As a kitesurfer and investor in renewable energy (solar) I really love this
company. The founder is one of the pioneers of kitesurfing and was the chief
designer for Naish kites when the industry was just starting out. He realized
that you didn't need a tower and giant blades to generate power from wind.
Neat. Would be great if someday they have a system that can propel boats.

~~~
exDM69
> Would be great if someday they have a system that can propel boats.

There's a company in Germany that is building power kite -style sail systems
for cargo ships. They have been running some prototypes successfully.

<http://www.skysails.info/english/>

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argon
Makani is looking to hire a few people:
<http://www.makanipower.com/careers/current-job-openings/>

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monk_e_boy
Wow. I used to hang out on the kitesurf email lists on yahoo back in the day,
Saul used to post open source kitesurf patterns, I made a few kites (of my own
design.)

Then he went on to start Monkey Kites, which I think he lets his sister run
(it's now called <http://www.griffinkites.com.au> )

Don Montague used to come on the forums talking about giant ship kites that
would tow a oil tanker across the ocean saving fuel.

It's interesting to see that they're working together on a non-kite idea.

Also, I bet that spinning wing chops birds and bats up with 100% efficiency.
Maybe they plan on sending it much much higher in the atmosphere (you could
tether lots to an airship which in turn was teathered to the ground)

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mikeyouse
Congrats to those at Makani. Also, RIP Corwin[1].. I didn't know him
personally but it's clear from the responses after his passing how important
he was to the company and to those around him. It's a shame he didn't get to
see Makani get this wonderful bit of validation.

[1] - <http://www.makanipower.com/corwin/>

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sillysaurus
Does anyone know how effective high-altitude wind energy might be for
producing energy at scale?

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mc-lovin
My understanding based on reading their materials, is that it is very similar
to conventional wind power. "High altitude" here refers to around 600m, which
disappointed me because I thought it would be an army of devices flying
autonomously in the stratosphere, (I kept reading to figure out how they got
the power back to earth, at which point I found out they were tethered, and
not flying in the stratosphere).

So they should be very similar to wind power, except that they are tethered,
rather than a turbine on a tower.

I think the main issue is how much space they use on the ground, i.e. how much
space around the tether point needs to be kept clear.

EDIT: apparently even wind at 600m is better at ground level.

Furthermore, the system is not really a "turbine sitting on a wing". The wing
_is_ the turbine blade. It moves in a circle, and the propellers on the wing
draw the power from it's motion. It's really an amazing idea that, the kind of
thing I wish I had thought of. I think this page has the most interesting
information.

<http://www.makanipower.com/why-airborne-wind/>

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GigabyteCoin
This is great for the owners of Makani but what does Google honestly know
about running an energy company?

With all of the side projects that Google has shuttered lately, I am
disappointed more than anything by this acquisition.

~~~
mikeyouse
This is GoogleX though.. What do they know about running a self-driving car
company? Or about running an augmented reality eyewear company?

This is their moon-shot division, run by Brin to work on crazy ideas. Makani
seems right up their alley.

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GigabyteCoin
Renewable enegery is presumably a semi-established market.

Augmented-reality-eyewear and self-driving-cars are not.

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lingben
maybe a dumb question but how did they solve the issue of coiling? if my Q
isn't clear, I mean the twisting of the tether as the airborne vehicle circles
the sky

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mc-lovin
can't they just turn whatever is holding the tether in place on the ground?

~~~
lingben
sure, but you can't turn the actual wire itself indefinitely or it will shear
eventually

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antidaily
Hey, I know someone who works there. Congrats, Erik!

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mapt
Somebody please, please tell me this isn't a 'talent acquisition' that's going
to show up on gwern's list in a week.

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jstalin
One of the links says that each device outputs 30kW. That seems way too low to
be cost effective.

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andrewflnr
Yet.

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Spur
What happens to the kite when the wind stops blowing?

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exDM69
The demo video shows the kite autonomously landing to a rig next to the ground
station. It uses the engine/turbine propellers to launch and land using
electrical power.

Their material says that they launch at wind speeds of 3.5 m/s, which is a
light summer day breeze that is hardly noticeable.

It is a common misconception that kites need high winds to fly, the optimal
wind speed for most kites is 3-6 m/s.

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_pmf_
> Great news for the folks working at Makani!

In the short term, yes. Given the history of Google and its diversification
efforts, not so much.

