
Apple drops to fifth place in laptop brand survey - artsandsci
https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/10/apple-macbook-laptop-survey/
======
glogla
But what can you do? If you want unix environment (and don't want support
Microsoft with their telemetry spyware bullshit), and want retina quality
text?

You're stuck with Apple, because nothing else like that exists. XPS 13 is
close, but the scaling on Linux just isn't good enough yet, and there's the
coil whine, and there's the touchpad, etc.

Apple has created a niche - high quality laptops with unix environment and
HiDPI screens, and is the only one inside that niche and can do anything it
wants with people who are in it.

It's sad, but that's the way it is. Apple has developers by the balls and know
is.

EDIT: and this is really, really sad - and it's probably even worse on mobile,
where you get to chose between Apple (bye bye jack) and giving all you data to
Google 24/7, but I digress, sorry.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
The Macbook trackpad is underrated. Well, maybe that's the wrong word. I know
I take it for granted until the second I go to use any other laptop. And I'm
still using a 2008 Macbook Unibody.

That said, my next machine won't be a Macbook. They are just too expensive, as
the alternatives are catching up. It used to be that they were priced well to
similarly-spec'ed competitors, but I'm not sure that's true any more.

~~~
city41
Is it the hardware or software that makes it better? On my Thinkpads, I
disable the trackpad in Ubuntu because it's just terrible. But when I boot
into Windows 10, it works rather well. The difference seems to be whether
unintentional brushings are ignored and how accurately the trackpad is ignored
during typing.

~~~
SmellTheGlove
I think it's a combination. The physical quality certainly feels nicer than
others, and I think the surface area is larger too. Then, whatever is going on
with the software side is great. I know that on mine, it's nicer in OSX than
Windows with Bootcamp drivers, so I'm sure software has a lot to do with it.

It is the only trackpad that I enjoy using.

~~~
city41
It's a shame. I've grown disillusioned with Apple, and have largely switched
to Ubuntu on Thinkpads. But I really miss Apple's trackpad implementation.

I disable the trackpad and only use the pencil nub, which does work very well,
but months in and I'm still not completely used to it. Not to mention other
people are always disappointed to find my trackpad disabled if they jump on my
computer.

------
mi100hael
I believe it. Last summer I switched to a Dell M5510 (dev edition) from a
MacBook Pro that was under a year old. Until then I had been a die-hard Mac
user basically my entire life, but the MBP and new versions of the OS just had
too many bugs:

\- Time machine backups being corrupted on a monthly basis

\- Audio occasionally not working after wake from sleep

\- Laptop failing to wake from sleep altogether

\- One or two kernel panics

In contrast, the Dell has had absolutely no problems running Linux for the
past 9 months other than the inability to hot-plug the ethernet dongle. It's
truly been more stable than the Mac. And the physical build quality is 90% of
the way there, too. Aluminum case, similar keyboard, rubberized CF palm rest,
etc. No complaints.

~~~
tedmiston
What made you realize that your Time Machine backups were getting corrupted?
I've never seen that before and am curious to know if there's some kind of
user notification.

~~~
toyg
The classic notification that "Time Machine must take a new backup". Usually
that translates roughly to "Time Machine lost the plot and will now start from
scratch, say bye to your old versions".

~~~
tedmiston
I haven't seen this one -- just when the backup disk is full and Time Machine
says "this backup will erase backups before date x".

~~~
DigitalJack
I've gotten it 3 or 4 times in the last 6-8 months. It makes a new backup from
scratch which takes forever. Very annoying.

I use it for the times when I mess something up and want a file system level
"undo" that goes back months.

I'd be happy if it just used spare space on the drive. Which it does, but only
if you are also backing up to an external drive.

------
nxc18
I love my Surface and I tend to love the MS ecosystem, but they (and others)
don't get enough flak for reliability.

I have owned bunches of MS hardware, and only one device has made it through
its life without needing warranty service. That includes my Zune 80, Xbox 360,
Surface RT, a Nokia 920 (iirc), and a Surface 3 (which I will need to take in
for service _again_ after the semester ends).

More and more professors are switching to Surface devices, and students are,
too. Unfortunately, just about every one I've seen has come with a story about
hardware or driver issues. On top of that, the relative abundance of bugs in
Office and Windows 10 lately isn't a good look.

While macOS has gotten worse over the last few releases, they're still nowhere
near as bad as the Surface hardware in terms of reliability. It makes me sad,
because I really love the devices but I just can't count on them to work 100%.
95% isn't good enough for a device that I use every day for hours per day;
Apple seems to get that with their MBPs, and it seems the other manufacturers
(notably Dell) are catching on.

~~~
maxxxxx
I used to replace my Windows laptops around every two years because something
broke or they just got painfully slow. My MB 13 now is now almost 3 years old
still going strong. Everything works, I never had to reinstall the OS and it
still looks great.

So for me a Macbook is still the better option. I would agree, however, that
Apple has lost interested in moving the platform forward so I am not sure what
I'll do once my MBP breaks down. I would like to see a touchscreen for
example. The touchbar seems pretty half assed. We have SP3 at work and they
have a lot of little issues so I doubt they will last very long.

~~~
72deluxe
I never understand this. Why would a machine get painfully slow after a few
years of use? Do you install rubbish on it? Do you not take care to ensure
that everything in your process task list makes sense? Do you look to see
what's gobbling up CPU, memory or startup time?

I have had Windows machines for decades and never reach a state where the
machine is slow or that it slows down since installation. The only thing to
cause that is running endless taskbar apps or background services.

What are you doing to make it slow?

~~~
maxxxxx
I have to install/uninstall a lot of software during development. Maybe the
uninstall isn't complete, who knows? Most people I know reinstall Windows once
a year from scratch.

------
mi100hael
Link to actual ratings: [http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-
ratings](http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings)

~~~
culturestate
If I'm reading this right, it seems that the results are from a survey _of the
Laptop Mag editorial staff,_ which is a little disappointing. I'm much more
interested in seeing some third-party consumer data – very curious to hear how
Joe Public's opinion of the current lineup compares to the tech industry's.

~~~
ksk
Joe Public isn't using expensive Apple laptops. They want a $500 laptop that
does the job.

In any case, the editorial staff are much more capable of comparing laptops,
since they not only use a wide variety of laptops, they are also likely to be
more savvy than the regular public when it comes to newer features. I'm not
sure what you intend to find after asking people who only have experience
across a few brands and a few models.

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
Joe Public doesn't even use a laptop, they use a phone now.

~~~
r00fus
Apple has figured this out too. They use the phone (iPhone) for 90% of their
informational access needs, but still need a laptop to do more extensive work.

Now, however, instead of having multiple PCs, Joe Public needs one, and
preferably one that lasts years. Enter Apple's high-end pitch.

The high resale value is both indicative of the value ascribed as well as a
nice perk for buyers.

------
rmmm
For the lazy and/or mobile... "Lenovo, Asus, Dell, and HP. Acer tied Apple for
fifth place."

~~~
ianai
That's really not the same thing as the title suggests. Sheesh, thank you for
the tldr

~~~
lightbyte
The title is pretty accurate. What GP didn't include is that Apple was #1 for
the previous 4 years.

------
plandis
Lenovo has the best laptops? Is spyware a good thing now?

~~~
interfixus
Someone recently gifted me a ThinkPad. It is hands down the most awesomely
satisfying piece of computing equipment I have ever owned.

Of course, I wouldn't dream of running this or any other real computer with a
pre-installed OS.

~~~
VT_Drew
Doesn't matter if you re-install the OS. They spyware was baked into the BIOS.

[https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas...](https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/)

~~~
interfixus
I do not reinstall "the OS".

One charm of this ThinkPad is it works superbly with some Arch Linux on it.

~~~
VT_Drew
>I do not reinstall "the OS".

>it works superbly with some Arch Linux on it.

These 2 statements contradict each other. Either you reinstall the OS (OK
maybe you didn't technically REinstall, but most people would call installing
a different OS "reinstalling the OS") or you still running the default OS.

~~~
interfixus
Installing a different OS is not 'reinstalling'

The BIOS thing was specifically targeted at Windows installations, a thing I
havn't bothered with since the previous millenium.

------
heavymark
Is this a real survey or just a random survey by the staff of some website? If
so odd this is trending on HN. Otherwise where is the actual data and the
number of people who actually made this ratings, the questions they were asked
to see how statistically valid the results are.

------
antisthenes
Any survey where Lenovo is at #1 should be taken with a grain of salt.

Sorry, this is too generous; it must be taken with a huge _truckload_ of salt.
No way in hell would I equate a company who isn't able to maintain a
functioning website with any sort of competency.

------
exabrial
Now more than ever, would be the time to launch a new Unix based Operating
System and hardware startup since Apple is so weak, especially with a focus on
developers. Imagine a commercially supported laptop line running Linux or
FreeBSD.... one can dream

~~~
danieldk
The problem is that Linux and it's ecosystem are completely fragmented. Say
that you deliver the laptop with your own Linux distribution. People still
expect that you support dozens of other distributions, desktop environments,
etc. Providing support will probably blow away the relatively thin margins
that most manufacturers have to work with.

The only company well-positioned to take marketshare from macOS is Windows.
They are doing extremely nice work with Windows Subsystem for Linux, which is
quickly moving closer towards providing enough of Linux to be productive. At
the same time, Windows provides good driver support for recent hardware,
applications such as the Adobe Suit, etc.

Unfortunately Microsoft has to screw up with telemetry, etc.

~~~
arximboldi
[http://slimbook.es/](http://slimbook.es/)

~~~
exabrial
wow that's pretty awesome actually!

------
Razengan
Sales said different: [http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-
sales/](http://fortune.com/2016/11/09/apple-macbook-pro-sales/)

And performance: [http://www.computerworld.com/article/3136714/data-
storage/ap...](http://www.computerworld.com/article/3136714/data-
storage/apples-new-macbook-pro-may-be-the-worlds-fastest-stock-laptop.html)

I have the 2016 15" MBP and it's a solid machine. The Touch Bar is also
surprisingly pleasant once you get used to it and customize it a little.

------
sneak
Dell at 3rd and HP at 4th. Pretty sure whoever they surveyed doesn't use
laptops.

