
I built an app to fix my depression - zoozla
http://blog.elifiner.com/how-i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/
======
NalNezumi
Read the blog post and also the other blog post in the page ( "Why discipline
isn’t the answer to procrastination", "How to stick to good habits without
being hard on yourself", "How fear of shame causes procrastination", "How fear
of success causes procrastination").

I get the feeling that the author is in a situation a lot of people in HN
could relate to: A situation where Performance Anxiety, Fear of missing out
(FOMO), Fear of being left behind, distraction and ADHD all gets entangled in
ones work , personal life & choice of how to spend their time. It seems like
if these things are left unchecked for a long time, the things can lead to
depression, or other form of negative mental state.

My question is how do you solve/amend this? Reading comments from similar
themed post on HN it seems like a lot of people are aware of themselves having
one or more of the above. Some seems to have accepted it, others seek help
from therapist. But a lot of people also seems to feel like they don't want to
"lose" the feel of guilt, stress, bad self image that follow performance
anxiety and fear of missing out because they take their negative emotional
reaction as a virtue that pushes them to improvement in stressful times
(myself being one of them).

It seems like vast majority defaults to "work harder, smarter" as a solution,
and only later in life when "working harder" have a diminished (sense) of
return, or when they hit a wall, change their course of action.

~~~
teekert
I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. Accepting one's
shortcomings, accepting that you can't do everything you want(ed), that you
wont become what you always dreamed of. Love yourself despite of what you
think of as shortcomings, think of the things you did achieve (and the things
you have, like a stoic philosopher). You are a pretty incredible being with
pretty incredible skills. If only you acknowledged yourself as such.

Now this "accepting" is not just something you (can) just do, it may be
exactly what you need a therapist for. Because you may have to undo years of
thinking and redefine your default thought patterns, this is very hard work.

For all the parents, I think this is a pretty important thing to teach your
kids. Telling them: "If you work hard you can be whatever you want to be!" Is,
imho, damaging, because it is not true, you are setting them up for
disappointment in themselves.

In short: Happiness = Reality - Expectation

Don't burden yourself or your kids with unrealistically large expectations.

~~~
NalNezumi
It surely is acceptance, but how do you convince __yourself __of it? How do
you convince a young college student, a just-out-of college late 20 's (me), a
about-to-hit-midlife late 30's/40's person that is struggling to reach the
expectation they have put?

Tell a college kid to lower his expectation and he will feel like a
"unmotivated" person, tell a 30's/40's that and he will feel like a failure,
all his struggle for nothing, and tell a late 20's to lower his expectation
and that goes against every self-motivation influencer and (probably) what his
surrounding successful peers suggest.

I think most people understand that the answer is acceptance, but how to reach
that point, is so different for each person. Because _some_ people overcome it
by sheer grit, while some through therapists, it's hard for a person in the
grind to realize what course of action is the best, and before it's too late.

~~~
teorema
I think part of it for me is this underlying anger. Despite these kinds of
discussions, there's some sort of continued societal denial about many of the
issues that are floating in the background.

Many of the things that are bubbling up in society seem all too much the same.
Whether it's school or employers or whatever, there's this kind of overvaluing
phenomenon, where the rich and/or successful get more rich and/or successful
and we attribute their [increasingly, given increasing inequities] freakish
success to something about them, as opposed to being in the right fitting
environment at the right point in their careers, or corruption, or something
broken in the system, or what. If you're too old, too black, too caring,
worked at the wrong place, the place changed, didn't go to a prestigious
enough school, were too rebellious as a young adult, whatever, don't know the
right people, you're screwed.

I'm not sure what my point is, except to say this acceptance-struggle tension
you're referring to is even more complicated because it's not just about
lowering or raising your own personal expectations or standards, it's about
everything else as well, about accepting or struggling against what's broken
in society (at the risk of sounding too idealistic or self-righteous).

What do you do when it's not self-hatred vs acceptance, but self-hatred vs
societal anger vs acceptance?

~~~
zoozla
Acceptance doesn't mean we stop fighting for justice. It just means we accept
the current situation as the starting point from which we begin our fight.
Releasing our hold on the anger doesn't mean we stop caring. It means we can
use the anger to fuel our good fight and not remain stuck fuming on the
sidelines.

------
melvinroest
To me it seems the strategies and tools we're able to build for ourselves
often hit the mark much more often than any mainstream advice could give us.
In part, this seems to be because we know our idiosyncratic nature much
better, but also because we have skin in the game and are therefore willing to
be way more creative in solving our own problems.

I've built apps for similar(ish) reasons solely for myself in order to deal
with whatever issue I had to deal with. A good example is using TiddlyWiki and
simply making a journal with a few fixed questions that simply was asking how
I was doing on a few psychological/physiological measures (i.e. exercise and
so on).

I've been in the situation where people sought my advice to fix their issues,
whatever they were, and applied my strategies. Sometimes they hit the nail and
worked, other times they catastrophically failed because they worked against
the nature of the person.

While one has to pick their battles, I'd advocate for people to consider
making their own tools/techniques/strategies to deal with their issues. I know
this isn't always possible or a smart move to do. But I've seen that it's more
often the best move in the long-term than not. Oh, and of course that doesn't
exclude recruiting help along the way :)

~~~
tennineeight
>skin in the game

Thank you so much! I have long felt outside help as lacking in understanding
but this just flipped the switch in my brain. This opens many more
opportunities to explore.

~~~
waihtis
If you haven't, read Nassim Taleb's _Skin in the Game_ (and heavy
recommendation on his other literature too.)

------
zoozla
Holy smokes guys, I went to sleep after posting this and woke up to the tiny
server running my blog dead and about a 100 comments here. I'll get my kid to
school and then sort everything out.

Thanks!

~~~
amerkhalid
Thanks, I am playing with the app, it looks great.

I got one question what other books did you read on Highly Sensitive Person
(HSP)? And if you recommend any? I have been told that I am "Empath" and
lately reading up on it (mostly online). Empaths and HSP seems related, based
on quick research.

~~~
zoozla
Yes, I think these are related concepts. I read a whole host of books that are
related and have been influential. Off the top of my head (on top of HSP):

The Big Leap The Sedona Method The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership Hold
Me Tight The Four Tendencies

------
grecht
I like the idea! However, I don't know much about psychology, so I'd
personally be hesitant to create such a product. Certainly "releasing
emotions" without a therapist could be somewhat dangerous for some people. And
perhaps what actually helped him isn't using the app, but a new sense of
purpose or meaning in his life due his discovery of the book and developing
the app.

It'd probably be wise to consult an expert on the psychological backgrounds.

~~~
zoozla
Thanks for your honesty. Yes, I am going out on a limb creating a product that
is based on non-standard methods, and there is some risk to people using it -
we all have different and complex responses to events. I've given a lot of
thought to the question what would happen if someone killed themselves because
of the app? It still keeps me up at night. But I won't stop looking for better
answers because the current state of the art in dealing with this isn't
enough.

Having a clear goal helps with depression, but leaving my job and trying to
start a business around it makes it worse. I'm pretty sure using the app is
what's keeping me sane these days, while building it is trying to bury me.

------
dawg-
So many mental health apps these days with so little high quality evidence of
their effectiveness.

And there are so many of these apps out there, why would someone build their
own? Maybe OP is onto something though.

Could it be that the creative process and challenge of building an app to
solve a personal problem is just as good a treatment for depression as the app
itself?

~~~
zoozla
It's part of it, but I only built the app after realizing the method (which is
based on something called The Sedona Method) really worked for me. I just
found it super tedious to do on paper and over time added more features that
help to get into a mental state where emotional release is possible.

I'm now building a business around the app and that path has multiple
emotional pitfalls _per day_. I tried to do this a few times before and always
succumbed to my fear, guilt and worthlessnes.

This time, I'm using the app on a daily basis and snap out of my funk
(usually) in a matter of minutes.

So I'd say the app is helping me feel better which is allowing me to keep
building it - not the other way around.

~~~
mynegation
Eli, you are probably the first in the long line of Show HN's, product hunts,
and indie hackers that I read every day that I read and wanted to scream "Shut
up and take my money!".

Seriously, if you think you are not ready to introduce paid plans, start with
donation link. Or kickstarter.

The challenging part with apps like these is that people expect quick fixes
("I will read that book, do that exercise and everything will fall in place").
No, it is a process, like coming to gym and lifting a dumbbell one time will
not make you jacked. I think it is important to emphasize that.

Few items of feedback (1) Add email - not necessarily your personal email -
but something like info@wuju.app, twitter is not everyone's cup of tea (2) I
think you mispelled "tedious" as "tedius" in at least one place. (3) you
narration is very authentic and I definitely connected to it, but most people
tend to connect to the monologue with more expression and intonation in it. If
you transition to a serious business with it - consider hiring a female sound
actor - no sexism here - but research shows that people of both sexes have a
stronger response to female voices, there is a reason that all voice
assistants speak with female voice by default.

~~~
zoozla
That is the best feedback I've gotten so far, thank you thank you thank you!

I definitely am planning to make a serious business out of it. I started out
with a coaching + app mix when the app was a lot more bare and didn't really
work without me walking people through it.

I'll get the email, marketing site and the rest of it in order, you're right,
Twitter isn't everyone's cup of tea (although I am focused on buildign an
audience there because my style of writing seems to work well in short
bursts).

I'm not going to hire a female actress to do the narration because I want my
soul to be in the app. I might hire a speach coach though to get this to a
higher level, so thanks for for pointing it out. I've actually gotten way
better feedback on the narration given that I'm not a native English speaker
and this is my first time recording my voice for anything.

Again, thanks so much. I'm now going to use this motivation that you granted
me to go get this thing in front of many more people!

------
Jaruzel
To everyone berating this guy about 'not being very depressed':

My depression is not your depression, and your depression is not theirs.
Please stop judging.

~~~
Chris2048
Isn't telling people to stop judging at least as bossy?

People die of depression, there's good reason there would be emotion going
against its perceived over-usage.

~~~
thatcat
While it can be trivializing to people who are truly depressed when the term
is used superficially, you have to be careful not to assume that someones
depression is superficial based on your perception. Just because someone isn't
late stage clinically depressed doesn't mean they're not in some stage of that
process.

------
me_me_me
It makes me sad when i read stories like that.

I feel depressed. Doctor - Take these pills.

I still feel sad. Doctor - Take more pills.

Medication cures symptoms of depression but cannot fix the underlying problems
causing it.

Taking pill to feel happy again is a patchwork that will eventually burst
catastrophically.

~~~
johnward
> Medication cures symptoms of depression but cannot fix the underlying
> problems causing it.

Sometimes those underlying conditions are brain chemistry though. The pills
work for a lot of people. My Bi Polar depression doesn't seem to stem from any
trauma or anything. I've done therapy and it did nothing. I've tried exercise,
it helps for a short period. I tried diet, seems to help a little. If also
tried about 15 different medications before a found a combination that keeps
my mood fairly stable.

I almost killed myself before I found the right combination of meds. Meds work
for some people we shouldn't be so quick to discourage it.

~~~
zoozla
There's a lot we don't undestand about mental illness, but I think the brain
chemistry theory doesn't hold water anymore. Otherwise we would have been able
to take a blood test and say - oh, your serotonin levels are out of wack.

I'm really happy you found a combination of meds that work for you, sounds
like it was a long and rough road to get there. There's still things you can
do to improve your condition beyond what the meds can do. I have some
anecdotal evidence that the app helps people taking meds, but nothing
conclusive yet.

~~~
jonex
Well, we don't know that we couldn't if we were able to easily take a blood
test of the brain. I think there's two parts to the theory, the stricter
interpretation that goes something like "depression is just the symptom of too
little serotonin - which can be fixed by SSRIs" is quite weak. But the fact
that brain chemistry affects mood, and in particular that increasing some
chemicals can induce pleasant feelings is pretty robust - we have drugs like
cocaine and heroin to thank for that insight. However translating that
knowledge into meaningful treatments of depression is not straightforward as
the body has a lot automatic control systems trying to keep things in balance.

So at one level we could claim that indeed depression is caused by "too low"
serotonin/dopamine levels, as temporarily increasing them will take away the
depression, but on the other hand this insight in itself doesn't provide us
with a clear path for diagnosis and treatment, and it doesn't preclude that
there's other things that's a root cause, such as thought patterns,
neurological setup, etc.

~~~
zoozla
That's a very thorough exploration of the topic, thanks. There definitely
seems to be a two way street between chemistry and consciousness both
affecting each other allowing us to tackle the problem of depression from both
ends. I'm very excited about the result coming out of psychedelic research
which seem to chemically trigger and stable improvement in thought patterns.

------
idreyn
Thanks for sharing.

I'll share one reaction I had — these sorts of things are normally narrated in
professional, glossy, somewhat saccharine voices, and it was a fun and
surprising moment of human connection to realize, hey, this is just some dude
talking into his laptop mic! While I imagine you might consider investing in
professional VO at some point, there's something really nice about the way it
is now.

I wonder what it's like for you to hear your own voice asking these questions
of you — is there any value in that specifically?

~~~
zoozla
I'm doing my damnest to get this out to as many people as I can and not worry
about perfectionism that killed many of my projects in the past. I did use my
laptop mic for the recording and I did get better gear but didn't get a chance
to re-record the narration.

It's interesting to hear that the lo-finess is actually helpful. Yes, I'm just
a dude (with a bit of an accent to boot!) :)

I usually use the app without my narration - I find it distracting. Most
people using the app over the long term tend to turn it off to, and listen
deeper to their inner guidance (which is the whole point - the app is helping
you to become your own therapist, not me being yours).

------
fock
mild, flu-like symptoms. Just describes how I feel since february and I'm not
sure, whether it's for a hidden Covid (business travelled to Spain, when they
found their first case, around 2 weeks, before they closed down...) or the
depressive mood-swings I had in the past.

~~~
lmedinas
That sounds not good, you should look for help. Maybe writing an App would
help you drive the negative mood way ?

~~~
malux85
Or maybe see a doctor?

------
Minor49er
The app is really calming. It's what I imagine it would be like to interact
with software that was designed by Alan Watts.

~~~
zoozla
Holy crap, being compared to Mr. Watts is spiking up my imposter syndrom :)
Thank you so much!

------
emilburzo
The blog seems down, but the page it linked to is still up:
[https://beta.wuju.app/](https://beta.wuju.app/)

~~~
agumonkey
not anymore, gotta be patient :)

~~~
coronadisaster
down again... [https://archive.is/JAd24](https://archive.is/JAd24) ... but the
app is now down too.

------
neonate
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifi...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifiner.com/how-
i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/)

~~~
numpad0
working [https://archive.is/JAd24](https://archive.is/JAd24)

working
[http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://blog.elifiner.com/how-
i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/)

no archive found
[https://megalodon.jp/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.elifiner.com%2Fh...](https://megalodon.jp/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.elifiner.com%2Fhow-
i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression%2F)

------
rustybolt
> I went to the doctor, told him I was feeling mild flu symptoms for a couple
> of months, he asked me a few questions, determined that I had depression
> [...]

Wait, what?

~~~
Jaruzel
Yes. Depression can result in a feeling of physical lethargy and general
'unwell feelings' such as headaches.

------
fouc
Wow this app is quite neat. Basically it's like a catalogue of different
emotions and mental states and it's got prompts that take you through them and
help you to identify and focus on them and help you work through them in a
very low-pressure way. Very nice!

------
narrator
The best thing I did for my mental health this last year was get the audio
book of "The Untethered Soul." Interestingly enough, I found out about this
book on HN last year. This is a fantastic book about spirituality that is
really practical. I've listened to this book about 5 times all the way through
and it never gets old.

The guy who wrote it is the real deal, not some random guru. The Surrender
Experiment, his other book, is also good because it shows how he applied it
all in his life to make him self a self-made tech multi-millionaire and to go
through some pretty hard struggles and build a large spiritual community along
the way.

------
teekert
Very nice. I did run into a lot of useless scrollbars though (on Firefox
desktop), this was discussed earlier here on HN: [0]. I guess you are an Apple
Safari user ;)

Oh and I may be dumb but it took me I while before I realized I had to check
all the boxes, because I though: Yeah I'm in a quiet space, so I don't need my
headphones.

Other than that, very nice job, worked for me, impressive. Will bookmark.

[0]:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24293421)

------
godtoldmetodoit
I just spent 5 minutes with the app, and had a revelation about my fear of
failure and how it relates to my parents that I've never had before. Thanks
for sharing this.

~~~
zoozla
Warms my heart to hear that, I'm so happy it helped you!

------
emilepetrone
[https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifi...](https://web.archive.org/web/20200911062548/http://blog.elifiner.com/how-
i-built-an-app-to-fix-my-depression/)

~~~
zoozla
Thanks! I think I got the server sorted out.

------
jonwilson
I've been meditating almost daily for several years, and I've read numerous
books and tried many different methods. I found this app very helpful, and
I'll probably incorporate it into my routine. The technique relates closely to
the root of most, or maybe all, mindfulness practices, which revolve around
feeling your emotions and their sensations in your body. At the same time, it
is a very simple practice, not heavy on theory, that anyone can try
immediately. Really, really excellent work--thank you for building and freely
sharing this.

------
Jeff_Brown
This isn't how he built it; it's why he built it. It doesn't describe what the
app does at all, just its goal ("help you deal with emotions").

------
Ardren
I don't want to disparage anyone, and I will take a look at the app when it's
back up, but I'm not even sure what depression is anymore. Mild flu symptoms
is not a phrase I'd used.

It's great that more people are talking about their mental health, and that
it's becoming more acceptable to seek help. But the word "depression" has
become so murky to me, I rarely know what people mean when they use it.

Maybe I just don't understand the word...

~~~
GordonS
Mental health is very complex, but I think it's a spectrum, with low-grade
symptoms at one end, and manic episodes at the extreme other end.

I'm sure it varies a lot from person-to-person, but for me, I have a constant
and profound feeling of sadness and futility, I often feel like crying, and
occasionally consider ending my life (I almost _fantacise_ about it, because I
wouldn't have to feel this way any more).

One of my parents has manic depression, and a sibling also has clinical
depression - I presume there is a genetic factor at play; I was brought up in
a middle-class household with parents that loved me, and I seldom wanted for
anything. Now, I'm a successful software architect with a wife, kids and side-
business. I own my own home, I have 2 nice cars, and I have a high income. Yet
I still feel that sadness, and often just don't see the _point_ of living, or
life at all, really.

Except for randoms on the internet, I've never told anyone about this. I've
come close many times, but I guess the longer you keep a secret, the harder it
is to let it out.

If anyone else is reading this, I'd enourage them not to be me, and to seek
medical help. If you don't think you can speak to a doctor, I'd also recommend
trying 5-HTP - I started 200mg 2x a day a few years back, and the change was
incredible. It may have saved my life.

~~~
leksak
Anyone reading this should before they take 5-htp try and determine if they
have low levels of dopamine as 5-htp helps elevate serotonin which you don't
necessarily want to do if you have low dopamine. However, if someone responds
well to 5-HTP it might make sense to seek out an SSRI medication

~~~
GordonS
> determine if they have low levels of dopamine

How would you actually do that? Is there some kind of home test available?

~~~
danparsonson
Talk to a doctor - self-medication is a risky endeavour, especially where
mental health is concerned.

~~~
GordonS
In an ideal world, sure. But not everyone is willing to talk to a doctor, or
indeed _anyone_.

~~~
coldtea
Then they have worse problems that their medication...

------
Rainymood
Website seems down. Have you ever heard of Quirk or Daylio? I use Daylio to
track my daily moods and that also helps a lot...

~~~
leksak
I've used Daylio. For me, the problem with using it long-term is that the
different moods are contextual to the overall stat you are in. Meaning, I
could have a "rad" day when in a depressive state which simply meant I wasn't
overburdened with depression. Meanwhile, when not in a depressed place an
"okay" day might still be leaps and bounds better than any days that were
lived through duringthe depression(s)

------
posedge
I'm glad I found this. I will come back to your blog and to the app. Thanks
for sharing.

------
rladd
FYI please spell check!

Poor spelling makes things look less credible ("tedius", etc.)

------
dmos62
Hey! I've spent a half hour using your app and it's great! I was feeling a bit
tense, confused and unmotivated this morning and going through the technique
with your app really made a difference. Thanks!

For those not in the know, this is based on what's sometimes called the Sedona
Method. There's a popular book about it by Hale Dwoskin [0] and the questions
(and phrasing) in this app are almost exactly the same (the self-questions are
an important part of the technique).

I've been geeking out about psychological self-help for a long time and this
is by far the simplest and most effective (especially in terms of the ratio
between accessibility and effectiveness) method I've come around. The idea, to
summarize it crudely, is that you can just let go of feelings. You're a layer
cake of stuff and the more you take off the better things get. At first it
sometimes feels like "ok, I've let go of this basic thing, but I'm no better
off" (it's a bit like the situation you'd find yourself in if you started
shoveling a landfill). The technique, apart from the basic insight that you
can let go, provides troubleshooting and guidance that let's you get a lot of
results from something that is so simple. One of the things that originally
attracted me to it was the feeling I had that, whatever the mechanism behind
my hangups is, it's simple, but with emergent behaviour, and this really
satisfied that part of me, and has been otherwise very rewarding as well.

My favorite book on the topic is Letting Go by David R. Hawkins [1], which is
also one of my favorite books of all time. I could sing praises for it for a
long time; it's been a big deal for me. If I need a spiritual pick-me-up,
that's the book. It's a really good instruction manual for your mind,
feelings, emotions. If you think you might lack emotional intelligence, this
book is a good place to start too.

If you feel like this method is working for you and you want to learn more, I
recommend going back and forth between the two books. They have very different
approaches on the same thing. I found that at different times I needed more of
the one or the other.

In the app, I noticed that the voice-over "letting go might be new for you"
kicks in every time you're going through a new emotion. Might be better if it
was there only for the first time.

I think I'll be coming back to this app a lot. Thanks again! Are you
considering open sourcing it?

[0] [https://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-
Wel...](https://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method-Happiness-Emotional-Well-
Being/dp/0971933413) [1] [https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-M-D-David-
Hawkins/dp/14019...](https://www.amazon.com/Letting-Go-M-D-David-
Hawkins/dp/1401945015)

~~~
zoozla
You're right (and I say so in the About section), it is based on the Sedona
Method. I found the method to be quite tedious to do on paper and I couldn't
focus long enough to do it in my head, which was the original reason I built
the app.

However, the app works for people who don't know the method, haven't read the
book, didn't watch the full DVD from 1992 and didn't attend the weeklong
seminar. I think it could bring this to a much wider audience.

Thanks for the bug report, yes, there's a lot more I need to fix in it before
hitting the big leagues.

I haven't considered open sourcing it because I want to make a living off it.
But I will think about it. There's a more limited version, without narration
or the deeper content, that I use for myself and I think I might open source
that.

------
newbie789
I'm kind of confused. As a highly empathetic person you're offering a
"solution"? I'd assume others have experiences other than your own and that
might not be particularly applicable in their individual situations?

I apologize if I'm not getting this.

~~~
rnin100
Well the site is down so we can't know for sure right now. However, I think
the keyword is "my". There's nothing in the title claiming a cure for
depression in general. And that's an impossible feat anyway.

------
leksak
Love the blog website. Clean, legible text. No fluff.

------
peterarends
This app is based on 'The Sedona Method' which has helped me in the past, but
treats symptoms. For more permanent change I would suggest REBT, which has
helped me even more.

------
jokoon
no https, doesn't render without js

seems like it's a gathering scheme...

------
stockavuryah
The title reads like a satire, but the content is actually fully dystopic, as
always.

------
jokowueu
Acceptance

------
pr2tik1
Nice!

------
phre4k
Your depression couldn't have been that bad if you could create an app against
it. Regular therapy would probably have been more effective and less dangerous
for others.

~~~
dang
" _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A
good critical comment teaches us something._"

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

------
tuatoru
If you managed to finish the app, you weren't very depressed.

Depression acts primarily on willpower. The bad feelings come as a consequence
of not being able to get anything done.

~~~
jdsalaro
> If you managed to finish the app, you weren't very depressed.

I disagree, as someone with experience in the matter. I think is fine to
question whether OP's depression was a real major depressive episode or to
what extent they were really depressed. However, the succinctness of your
comment leads me to believe that it's more simplistic than anything and thus
counterproductive while discussing depression. It's not always a matter of
"but was it real depression, though?"

> Depression acts primarily on willpower.

Depression acts on _everything_ and shouldn't be characterized so easily.
That's exactly what happens in real life, where a statement like yours can
instantly nullify the efforts of someone trying to tell you that, yes, they
look normal, but something is wrong. To that, you'd likely reply, "but Jane,
you don't look _that_ depressed!"

Some people are able to keep operating on _certain_ realms, which IMHO is the
key to getting out of the rut; grasping whatever still motivates you, even if
just a bit, to operate at 1% of your normal capacity and "power" on.

> The bad feelings come as a consequence of not being able to get anything
> done.

I repeat, not always and not for everyone as the causes for circumstantial and
clinical depression are too many to count and so are the symptoms and the way
they are externalized.

~~~
GordonS
> Depression acts on everything and shouldn't be characterized so easily

^^ This. I've battled with depression since I was something like 7-10 years
old, and it's just not as simple as the GP implies.

Depression affects different people to different degrees, and has different
impacts - human beings are afterall very complex beasts.

Being depressed also doesn't necessarily mean that you feel that low _all_ the
time - or at least that those feelings aren't in the foreground. Some days,
weeks or months are worse that others. It's absolutely always _there_ , but
sometimes I can have a streak of weeks where I feel like I'm winning, and it's
only in the background.

I'd also add that people with depression cn be very good at hiding it, to the
point where they can even be hiding it from _themselves_. Barring occasional
random on the internet, like now, I haven't told a single real person about it
for the 30-year (and counting term) of my depression. Despite growing up with
a parent with manic depression, somehow I didn't even recognise the way I felt
as depression until I was in my 20's.

~~~
NalNezumi
Just curious, how did you find out that you were hiding your depression from
yourself? (I assume you wrote from personal experience) Especially when other
people tell you that they think you have depression?

~~~
GordonS
Yes, I'm writing from personal experience. I'm pushing 40, and I've felt this
way since I was a young kid. I think because it started so early, it was just
the way things had always been. Probably as a kid I didn't have the emotional
maturity to recognise what was happening either.

Nobody has ever told me they think I have depression - I'm _very_ good at
hiding it. My main coping mechanism, if you can call it that, was to bury my
head in the sand and pretend everything was fine.

As for how I found out, it was very slowly, over a period of a few years, as I
matured into an adult. Looking back I can see that my mental state
deteriorated, likely due to stress caused by various life events and
(physical) health issues, and everything kind of came to a head. At some point
I couldn't bury my head in the sand and ignore it anymore and think "it's just
me, I'm weird".

But even once deep down I recognised it as "depression", it was a long time
before I'd even say in my head "I have depression". This was 15-20 years ago,
and there was even more stigma around mental health then than there is now,
and my shame was probably tempered by how one of my parents (with manic
depression) had been viewed while I grew up. I also felt guilty - I had a
wife, house, job, plenty of disposable income etc; how could I still feel like
this when my life seemed so superficially perfect?

Even though I admit it to myself now, I doubt I'll ever tell anyone else, even
my wife. Would anyone even believe me, believe that it was possible to hide
such a thing my entire life? But now I'm rambling, I'll end it there :)

~~~
NalNezumi
No thank you for your rambling, it is for me (in my late 20's) an anecdote
most valuable.

I asked because I don't consider myself remotely close to it, having good job
(well until today my last day) and a good safety net. But in the past few
days, my SO & a friend have told me that I should maybe seek therapy. My first
instinct is to dismiss is and focus my time on betterment of myself through
other means, but your anecdote made me think of the possibility that I might
just be oblivious about it.

Unfortunately I live in a country where mental health is still a stigma and my
insurance is gone with the work, but your experience at least nudge me towards
trying to seek out professionals for it. (when I one day return to my
homecountry where it isn't a stigma)

