
Surface Music Kit features - NicoJuicy
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/support/music-photos-and-video/surface-music-kit?lc=1033
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julianpye
It is not compatible to Surface RT tablets. I don't understand how Microsoft
is willing to burn its early adopters so much. Surely it is not a technical
matter or a matter of resources? If anything, Microsoft should do everything
to keep all of them happy. Regarding the hardware itself - if you have ever
tried out a Native Instruments Maschine, which this is kind of modeled on, you
know that the haptics of the pad keys are key. This won't work well with the
type of switch of the touchcover.

~~~
salient
I don't understand why Microsoft even calls the two tablets the same, when
they couldn't be any different from the software, hardware and price
perspectives.

The only explanation I can come up with is that they're trying to confuse the
consume and think that one is just as good as the other (you can do the same
things with both), and this title "Surface Music Kit", even though it's just
for the Surface Pro device, proves my point.

~~~
gum_ina_package
How is this any different than Apple only supporting nth Gen iDevices?

~~~
cmelbye
How is that at all like this? Apple doesn't drop support for their devices
after a year, plain and simple, and that's what Microsoft has done here. If
there's a genuine "hardware limitation" that prevented them from giving
support to their early adapters, then it's absurdly shocking to me that they
didn't have the foresight to know that they might want to create covers like
this in the future and add support for them preemptively.

~~~
jessedhillon
The iPhone 4S and below are completely unusable with iOS 7. Even switching
between two apps will require one or the other being evicted/reloaded into
memory. That phone is only from ~2011 mind you, and it's clearly become a
third-class citizen in its own ecosystem.

~~~
coldtea
> _The iPhone 4S and below are completely unusable with iOS 7. Even switching
> between two apps will require one or the other being evicted /reloaded into
> memor_

I'm running iOS 7 in a iPhone 4 (not even 4S), as do millions of others, and
what you are saying is BS.

I can even upload a video if you don't believe me.

~~~
jessedhillon
I had a 4S with iOS 7 for several months and what you're saying is complete
BS. I can upload a video if you don't believe me.

Try non-hostility as an initial response in the future.

~~~
coldtea
> _I had a 4S with iOS 7 for several months and what you 're saying is
> complete BS. I can upload a video if you don't believe me._

You do understand that "had a 4S with iOS 7 for several months" and "totally
unusable" are contradictory, right?

I'll have the video, please.

> _Try non-hostility as an initial response in the future._

Well, sorry, I guess.

You could also try not generalising from your outlier example.

~~~
jessedhillon
Unbelievable levels of narcissistic nitpicking here, I don't even care to have
any more conversation with someone possessed of your level of pedantry. I
began shooting a video but decided that you can fuck yourself instead, as
there's no convincing someone who can be this anal. Probably you'd bitch about
the portrait orientation with which I shot it.

How do you know you're not the one generalizing from N=1? Why wouldn't I
expect that all iPhones have roughly identical performance charcteristics, as
one of the highlights of the Apple business model is strict hardware control.
Equivalent hardware, ergo equivalent performance on that hardware.

Clearly you have been confused by a small amount of hyperbole which, according
to votes, many people have had zero problem understanding so far. I imagine
life for you being an expanse of loneliness punctuated by moments of extreme
confusion. More so than for most, I suppose, just so you can better understand
what I'm saying about you.

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anonymfus
They still don't sell it, it's only for contest winners... Why?!

~~~
NicoJuicy
Indeed, didn't knew about that...

They reference the store, but the music kit can't be found there.

PS. the site is
[http://www.surfaceremixproject.com/](http://www.surfaceremixproject.com/)

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NicoJuicy
Additional, the link to the app: [http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-
us/app/surface-music-ki...](http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-
us/app/surface-music-kit/f08c6781-dec8-47e5-a845-1fad916163e2)

This app/hardware actually looks really neat..

~~~
slantyyz
It would be cool if applications like Amplitube supported it.

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Casseres
For those of you who are saying the Music Cover isn't a good device for making
music, I don't think Microsoft was trying to make a music product, but rather
an example. A while ago, some people from the Microsoft Surface team did an
AMA (Ask Me Anything) on Reddit. I think the idea was that different "blades"
could be made for different tasks [1]. Microsoft made the first blade to show
what was possible, and this is what they came up with.

[1] "This unique digitizer platform we built can enable a number of different
blades and unique interactions. We are super excited about the possibility."
\-
[http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1mz20e/hi_im_panos_pan...](http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1mz20e/hi_im_panos_panay_corporate_vp_of_surface_at/ccdzk55)

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mdisraeli
As a DJ beginning to look into music production, this feels poorly designed to
me.

The sliders are without any physical control, so they add little over pure
touchscreen sliders. And the fixed-functions are disappointing. Similarly the
control buttons don't seem to add anything at all.

The pads do make sense - having even slight physical definition to them will
make them easier to use when performing. Really it needs piano keys, as again,
the physicality they would have offered would have helped with performance.

Another case, I suspect, of designed by someone who wouldn't actually use the
final product.

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kenjackson
Joe Hahn has composed with it: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK6Hs-
qHh84](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK6Hs-qHh84)

As an ex-DJ I could definitely find use in something like this. The core music
program has to be good, but a complimentary keyboard like this one would
certainly enhance the experience -- especially for live Performances.

~~~
mdisraeli
Oh, I could find uses for it, especially if it presents as a usb midi
device[1]. And I'm sure it can be used for some fun things and actually have a
place in a live set. It just feels like a toy, rather than a serious bit of
music kit for musicians (even if it has been used by serious ones, however
anything can be used by musicians :P)

[1] Actually, if it did, that would get me a lot more excited by it!

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Gracana
I couldn't tell from my quick skim through... So does anyone know, is it
velocity sensitive?

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mdisraeli
The pads appear to be sensitive to pressure, if I've read it right, which is a
start

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xixixao
This doesn't make sense... Why not use the touch screen as the controller,
with variable number of sliders and track numbers and attach it to a
PC/monitor for displaying the rest of the UI?

~~~
anonymfus
Capacitive touch screens are incapable of measuring pressure applied to
buttons. This thing allows user to press buttons with different force to
produce sounds of different volume.

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gress
False. Capacitive touch screens can measure finger pressure based on the size
of the contact patch between the finger and the screen. They can also measure
impact of the finger against the screen via the accelerometer.

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musicalentropy
It would be great too if Microsoft develops something for real musicians to
make some real music !

~~~
actsasbuffoon
The biggest reason that audio software/hardware manufacturers tend to ignore
Windows is its latency problems. Latency is the amount of time it takes to
send input to the system, or to get output from the system. Total latency is
the combination of the two; how long it takes from the time I pluck a string
until I hear the processed version play back through my headphones. High
latency throws your timing off. It's a lot like when you speak into a
microphone in an auditorium and the delay between when you speak and when you
hear your voice is confusing.

The two primary audio APIs available on Windows have very high latency, to the
point where they make tracking with effects virtually unusable. You can
increase your sample rate to improve the latency, but that is far more taxing
on your CPU.

OS X uses a system called Core Audio, and it has very respectable latency and
is comparatively easy to develop for. We're at the point where a sort of self-
sustaining feedback loop is well under way. Poor latency causes musicians to
prefer OS X to Windows. Audio hardware manufacturers want to release products
for platforms that people are actually using, so they target OS X. Now
musicians who were on the fence about switching to a Mac have to in order to
get access to decent recording equipment.

I have an Apogee Duet that works on OS X and iOS(!), but it doesn't support
Windows. The really weird thing is that I get better latency when recording
through my iPad then I do when recording through my beefy gaming rig.

tl;dr: Nifty controllers won't fix the problem. Microsoft needs to get serious
about audio performance if they want musicians to use their platform.

~~~
mullr
> audio software/hardware manufacturers tend to ignore Windows

Really? Apogee is the only manufacturer in this market I can think of, out of
many, that supports Apple products but not Windows. All latency-fearing
Windows audio software and hardware uses ASIO, for which there is broad
industry support.

> Audio hardware manufacturers want to release products for platforms that
> people are actually using, so they target OS X.

I think you perceive their motivations correctly, but most people would reach
a different conclusion than you have. Anecdotal evidence suggests that said
manufacturers have as well.

> The really weird thing is that I get better latency when recording through
> my iPad then I do when recording through my beefy gaming rig.

The latency of a digital audio system is determined by the amount of buffering
in the signal path, but your computer must be able to keep those buffers
reliably full. Your iPad, being a more controlled system with fewer background
processes, should be able to do a much better job of this than your desktop
box, where anything goes.

~~~
actsasbuffoon
Universal Audio's UAD satellite boxes and the Apollo range of interfaces don't
support Windows. Focusrite's discontinued Liquid Mix DSP box didn't support
Windows. All of Metric Halo's audio interfaces are Mac only. I believe some of
MOTU's audio interfaces used to be Mac specific, since their Digital Performer
DAW software was Mac specific. If memory serves DP went multi-platform with
version 8, and their audio interfaces have also become increasingly Windows
friendly.

These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. That's before we
even get into software.

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mdisraeli
Anyone know what the licensing restrictions on the surface keypadcovers is?
Could anyone make a custom one?

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untilHellbanned
...and MSFT is 10 years behind once again. Garage Band has been around and
highly successful for years. If only they'd done a Google, err...Bing search
to know that.

~~~
nivla
Wow din't know Garage Band had a music kit for my Ipad. Where can I buy one?
/s

I believe OP intended to emphasize discussion on the hardware and not the
software when posting this.

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scep12
I think i'm missing the news-worthy part of this. Looks to me like a half-
assed product that's stuck in limbo. What of it?

