
CoeLux: Artificial Sunlight That’s Real Enough to Trick Your Camera and Brain - trefn
http://petapixel.com/2015/02/09/coelux-artificial-sunlight-thats-good-enough-fool-cameras-brain/
======
bd
Somebody on reddit made a cheap do-it-yourself version for their basement
office for $150 (using LED lights for plants):

[http://imgur.com/a/r31Gb](http://imgur.com/a/r31Gb)

While definitely not the same, there should be an opportunity for something
costing less than $35,000 while still getting closer.

For example here is DIY 90,000 lumen flashlight that supposedly cost $250-350:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVqRy0sWWY&t=3m40s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVqRy0sWWY&t=3m40s)

Using 10 of these LED chips:

[http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-Warm-White-3000K-LED-Light-
High...](http://www.ebay.com/itm/100W-Warm-White-3000K-LED-Light-High-Power-
Component-Chip-100-Watt-8000-LM-USA-/281833108024)

~~~
ipsum2
While this is is nice, the main breakthrough of CoeLux is the simulation of
Rayleigh scattering, not just a bright diffused light.

~~~
bd
Lot of things scatter. There is probably something cheaper than $35,000 per
light.

Maybe milk could be used? :)

[http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wyj6iHUndhg/UXpUk6HxfLI/AAAAAAAACu...](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wyj6iHUndhg/UXpUk6HxfLI/AAAAAAAACuw/2FDyuDgm8U0/s1600/Untitled-2+copy.jpg)

[http://thestandardmodel.blogspot.com/2013/04/when-i-was-
chil...](http://thestandardmodel.blogspot.com/2013/04/when-i-was-child-i-
often-wonder-why-sky.html)

It feels like they charge so much not because there would be some principal
engineering / technical obstacle but simply because they can. They have been
the first who realized something like this can be done (now that LED lighting
progressed so far) and for rich customers this is a feature that's highly
desirable, so they are willing to pay so much.

They do have a good marketing. Their business model depends on others thinking
there is some special magic.

I had to see that reddit post to even start questioning that something like
this could be replicated.

~~~
derefr
They might charge as much as they do because they're making their special-
sauce material in a really non-cost-effective small-batch way. If that's true,
then if they just released their material process patent into the public
domain, probably the windows would _still_ cost $35k for a while, and then
gradually decline, step-wise, as competitors created bigger and better
processes to do the same thing.

------
mentos
I'm looking up at my square white ceiling wondering what it would be like if
the entire surface was this CoeLux panel. Imagine a vibrant blue sky with a
beautiful sun tracking its way across your ceiling all day. I think it could
be breathtaking.

This is the type of 'simple' invention that you could never really anticipate
but changes the future profoundly.

~~~
mappu
VR headsets will accomplish this for many people.

Well, maybe in one more generation once the resolution becomes higher.. and
adding hand tracking.. and a UV lamp on a servo..

~~~
ethanbond
And all you've gotta do is lie in bed with a VR headset on!

Let's hope you don't have a significant other that you're supposed to be
spending time with.

Come on, this isn't a solution.

------
sonium
Sadly they write little substantial about the internal construction principle
so I'm making an educated guess: Based on the pictures one can see that
relatively hard shadows are created as expected by a point-like light source
(like a far away sun). Also in the movie it can be seen that the 'sun' moves
with the camera when the camera moves. The hard shadows would be created if
all light emitting the 'window' are almost parallel, which would require some
kind of optics. So I'm guessing that the 'skylight' is made of a slightly
curved backside supporting a large number of white LEDs. Each LED then would
have a small lense so that all light is emitted within a very narrow angle.
The slight curvature of the backside would then lead to the apparent movement
of the light-source if the camera moves. (Because one would look into the
opening angle of a different portion of the LEDs) The blue color itself is a
layer of nano-particles leading imitating Rayleigh scattering of the
atmosphere.

~~~
danieltillett
This is because it is all in the patents [1].

1\. [http://patents.justia.com/inventor/paolo-di-
trapani](http://patents.justia.com/inventor/paolo-di-trapani)

------
danieltillett
These are the patents for those interested in the tech behind this [1 − 3].

1\.
[http://www.google.com/patents/US8469550](http://www.google.com/patents/US8469550)

2\.
[https://www.google.com/patents/US20140133125](https://www.google.com/patents/US20140133125)

3\.
[http://patents.justia.com/patent/20150330607](http://patents.justia.com/patent/20150330607)

------
jamespitts
Artificial sunlight could be revolutionary if applied with scale in cities. It
could enable new, far denser forms of architecture "built for people",
mitigating the ill psychological effects of being without natural
surroundings.

The energy use would be heavy, but it might be worth the cost given the
transportation energy savings and higher productivity and happiness of the
city population.

~~~
jkxyz
Don't forget seasonal affective disorder, or just the general influence on
affects that cloudy weather has. Imagine waking up to streaming sunlight every
morning. I can see that making a huge change in people's lives.

~~~
seivan
It would have to produce vitamin-D (or whatever the sunlight produces when it
hits your skin) in order to combat that.

Source: Me in wintertime Sweden.

~~~
sneak
Concurrent orally-administered vitamin D would achieve the same effect.

~~~
mful
Do you have a source for that?

My understanding is that (a) utilization of dietary vitamin D is significantly
lower than naturally produced D (from sun exposure) and (b) vitamin D is one
of several micronutrients produced from sun exposure.

~~~
jrapdx3
> My understanding is that (a) utilization of dietary vitamin D is
> significantly lower than naturally produced D (from sun exposure)...

The end product of UVB irradiated skin (i.e., sunlight) is vitamin D3. (D3 is
"activated" locally in tissues utilizing it.) Ingested D3 supplements
effectively add to the body's supply, though the optimum intake is
controversial and varies among individuals.

One difference between sunlight and supplements is that D3 production via UVB
exposure has an upper bound, only so much can be made because there's a
limited amount of substrate available in skin cells to convert to vitamin D.
The upshot is sunlight is "safer" re: potential toxicity of excessive vitamin
D intake.

AFAIK vitamin D is unique among nutritional factors in its reliance on UVB
exposure. Don't know of any other micronutrients directly related to sunlight,
but possible there's something I've overlooked.

~~~
fpoling
It is unfortunate that "vitamin D" is called "vitamin" since it is in fact a
hormone. As with most hormones, their effect depends on many factors including
the number of receptors on target cells that can change significantly
increasing or decreasing sensitivity to D. That itself is poorly understood
and it is unknown how long-term consumption of D supplements in what ever form
with little exposure to real Sun affects sensitivity.

So the advise is to take D supplements only if recommended by a doctor.

~~~
jrapdx3
Vitamin D (for lack of better official term) indeed has an apparent role in an
amazingly broad array of body systems. I suppose calling it a "vitamin" is
appropriate in environments with insufficient sunlight which includes
northerly latitudes, say above the 45th parallel (where I happen to live).

Presumed deficiency of D (per lab studies) is quite common here and
supplementation is usually recommended for optimum health. Besides location,
lifestyle factors often reduce sun exposure increasing chances of low D level.

There are tradeoffs involved with most recommendations. The common advice to
avoid UV exposure re: melanoma risk has propelled manufacture of sunscreens
into a big industry. Sunscreens filter out nearly all UVB, and interfere with
forming D. Ironically, low body stores of D may increase cancer risk according
to some studies. BTW my dermatologist knows about that, nonetheless advocates
minimizing cancer risk, worrying less about vitamin D deficiency or risks of
supplementation.

Indigenous Alaskan populations were always vulnerable to D deficiency yet it
was uncommon, probably associated with their diet, rich in the oils of sea-
going animals, known sources of D. Out of curiosity, a while back based on
published info I calculated their intake of vitamin D was roughly
1500-2000IU/day. This seems consistent with opinions of some researchers re:
appropriate intake level (don't have the references at hand--I can locate them
if there's interest).

The jury's still out on vitamin D in terms of its functions and dietary
requirement. It is a fascinating story that with any luck will be at least
better resolved in my lifetime.

~~~
fpoling
The recommendation to avoid UV exposure at all is just wrong indeed. The harm
from UV is highly non-linear function of dose. It could be that in low doses
when the body can quickly and fully recover it decreases the risk of melanoma
through compensatory mechanisms. And even if this is not the case, one needs
very short exposure to high Sun to get daily dose of D when risk of melanoma
is significantly lower than most other risk factors one constantly meets
throughout the life.

As for D supplements, one really should very careful even in cases of high
latitudes (and this is the reason I avoid D supplements despite living at 61th
parallel). Quoting Paul Albert , [http://bacteriality.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/08/Albert_IO...](http://bacteriality.com/wp-
content/uploads/2009/08/Albert_IOM_Speech_080409.pdf) :

So are we really facing an epidemic of vitamin D "deficiency" or are we simply
beginning to note more signs of an imminent epidemic of chronic disease – an
epidemic which would be exacerbated by increasing the amount of vitamin D
added to our food supply?

------
BWStearns
Wow. I was looking at the first couple photos thinking "I get it, that's what
a skylight looks like, now show me the damn lightbulb!"

Here's to hoping this tech gets commoditized and indoor spaces get a lot more
pleasant.

------
infectoid
The article is a year old. Does anyone know where the tech is actually at now?

I was expecting this to be slightly more common by now.

~~~
marchica
Now prices have fallen. We have installed about 50 systems till now

~~~
comboy
Have you explored possibility of making this light rich enough in different
wavelengths to also let plants grow under it? Or is it not possible with LEDs?

~~~
PhasmaFelis
Grow lights already exist, and are several hundred times cheaper.

------
ogig
67.000$ for a great looking light source seems too much. You can buy small
houses at that price point where I live. With real windows, you know.

~~~
evincarofautumn
It’s also a 660-pound object installed in a drop ceiling nearly a meter thick.
You’d need very high ceilings to start with, and you’d better hope it’s
installed well. Not to mention that it consumes up to 300W of power.

~~~
kefka
Well sunlight is around 1kW per square meter energy density, so it doesn't
surprise me in the least that this takes .3kW to simulate sunlight.

------
Animats
Coming soon to the office of a CEO near you.

It's nice, but it's not $30,000 nice. Still, the cost of LEDs per lumen
continues to drop. LED auto headlights are now below $100.

There's a market for this in hospitals, to keep patients in intensive care
units in sync with the outside world. Fake windows with lighting tied to the
day/night cycle have been used. Here's someone looking for funding for a
startup to do a really good virtual window.[1]

[1]
[http://windways.org/personal_page/virtual_windows/](http://windways.org/personal_page/virtual_windows/)

------
steejk
Here's a video of an actual one:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6VKLoS59g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD6VKLoS59g)

It does look very realistic, but makes me wonder whether having an uneven
light distribution is desirable or whether it's something that's needed to
trick the body.

------
cordite
For those that work in office buildings and may be far away or do not have
immediate access to Windows while working, would this be a good investment for
companies to make?

The sun availability does seem to affect my daily energy and motivation.

~~~
ogig
I'm not sure an artificial light source looking like the sun will replace the
actual sun in regards daily energy and motivation, among others.

~~~
wlesieutre
Depends on where you are. The pacific northwest and great lakes regions could
use some fake sunlight: [http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-
Extremes/US/cloudiest-...](http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-
Extremes/US/cloudiest-cities.php)

------
dharma1
Bet the spectrum looks quite different to that of the sun. LEDs are narrow
spectrum with peaks and dips, even when combined

------
kirk21
In this video (
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4TJ4-kkDw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4TJ4-kkDw)
) they talk about the usage for underground buildings. It could be for
underground buildings what the lift is for high buildings (eg make it
practical).

This was on Product Hunt a while ago:
[https://www.producthunt.com/tech/coelux](https://www.producthunt.com/tech/coelux)

------
kristiandupont
Not nearly the same, but Daniel Rybakken does lots of cool experiments with
artificial sunlight that might interest you as well:

[http://danielrybakken.com/daylight_comes_sideways.html](http://danielrybakken.com/daylight_comes_sideways.html)

[http://danielrybakken.com/daylight_entrance,_stockholm.html](http://danielrybakken.com/daylight_entrance,_stockholm.html)

------
nxzero
Appears that the light is stationary, which to me seems like it'd be a bit
creepy.

~~~
BWStearns
The company's website suggests that you can change the position of the sun,
presumably there's nothing preventing you from modifying it on a timer or
slider.

~~~
markbao
Actually, the light is set at a certain angle and can't be changed [0]. They
let you choose between different angles – 60º, 45º, and 30º (mounted on the
wall). They say that they are working on allowing for light adjustment in the
future [1].

(Not your fault though - their website is pretty sparse on information.)

[0]
[http://www.coelux.com/en/solutions/index](http://www.coelux.com/en/solutions/index)

[1] [http://www.hispotion.com/coelux-artificial-lighting-
system-t...](http://www.hispotion.com/coelux-artificial-lighting-system-thats-
real-sunlight-30426)

------
mintplant
I can't tell whether some of these pictures are photos or renderings.

~~~
nkassis
I had the same reaction until I read the article. I think it's the type of
objects and the small room that looks a lot like the ones used in rendering
demos that gave me that same impression. Just waiting for them to put a glass
of water to show transparency or something similar ;p

------
mrexroad
I'm photophobic and am guaranteed a migraine when in direct sunlight or high
contrast lighting environments. Diffused, evenly lit indoor environments are
my safe harbor without dark/polarized/full-cover sunglasses. Please don't take
that from those of us that'd love outdoor lighting, but physically cannot
tolerate it.

------
nnq
Now that's the kind of thing that would make Vault 101 more cheery! The
survivors of the nuclear apocalipse would surely revere the inventor of this
thing as a god.

...and obligatory musical reference:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txPqV0lZaSE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txPqV0lZaSE)

------
Fluid_Mechanics
I know it would be a tremendous waste of energy, but could you imagine
spacecraft having a relaxation room like this?

------
rbanffy
It's be fun to have a tunable one that could simulate other atmospheres as
well. There are days retiring to Saturn seems a good option ;-)

With the added benefit you could use a low-power light for those distances.

------
digi_owl
If they can make a model i can hang on the wall (i really don't have the root
space to mount this), i'm game.

------
imh
Note that the video is from 2014 and the article from about a year ago. That
said, I want this so badly.

------
rajacombinator
Cool but creepy. How about just build non-gulag style buildings with exposure
to actual sunlight?

~~~
blazespin
Multiple stories? Shaded building? Cloudy days? Basement offices?

------
foota
New possibilities for fusion plants: cheaper sunlight generation per lumen.

------
glitcher
Is that Jason Bateman in two of the photos?

------
dovdov
Umbrella Corporation preorders. :)

