
A Muslim “registry” doesn't require a single registration, just data - johnhess
http://jthess.com/blog/2016/11/17/and-i-did-not-speak-out.html
======
unimpressive
This gets brought up every other thread on the subject of 'registries' for
minority groups, but if you haven't you really should read _IBM And The
Holocaust_ :

The upshot is that Germany used their census data to figure out who is and
isn't a Jew, but they also used records from synagogues, surname analysis, and
other pre-war 'big data' sources along with incredible amounts of IBM
equipment to compile their list of undesirables.

[https://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-
Corp...](https://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-Corporation-
Expanded/dp/0914153277)

With the NSA, Donald Trump will have access to more information about the
demographics of American populations and who comprises them than the Third
Reich ever had about its own citizens. There will be no registries. And in the
throes of a national security hysteria comparable to the fears of influence
from anarchism in the early 20th century, there will be no internal will at
these agencies to oppose him.

~~~
464192002d7fe1c
An interesting book, for sure.

The thing of it was, while they made some very interesting connections they
didn't particularly make one that IBM (America) directly knew about the
literal holocaust.

Now, IBM definitely knew their technology was being used to catalogue specific
groups, and thus that that technology was being used to facilitate mass
involuntary migrations of those people. What I don't recall (I read this book
when it first came out in 2001), is if they knew (or should have reasonably
known) that those people were being killed. When I think of the Holocaust, I
associate that more with the deaths of those people and less with the forced
migrations/etc. Both are terrible, of course, but one is obviously far worse.

In any event, that's a very good book to read, even if ultimately I find
culpability for IBM to be somewhat tenuous.

I'm glad I don't live in a country/world where anyone is proposing registering
anyone, Muslim or Jewish.

~~~
mikeyouse
New documents came out after the book was published that showed that IBM had
specific punch cards for each concentration camp, each reason (homosexual,
Jew, antisocial, gypsy,etc.) and for manner of death (natural causes, suicide,
death by gas chamber).

The SS had to be trained, the machines had to be maintained, and the cards had
to be updated. IBM engineers were on site at each concentration camp
throughout most of the war.

~~~
apta
> New documents came out after the book was published... and for manner of
> death (natural causes, suicide, death by gas chamber).

Do you have a citation for that?

~~~
mikeyouse
The author of the 2001 book that OP was referring to wrote a new edition in
2012ish with the new docs. He wrote about it in HuffPo:

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-
holocaust_b_13...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-
holocaust_b_1301691.html)

------
Cyph0n
As a Muslim American, I am absolutely in awe, and simply shocked that
something like this has come up at all. If this trend continues, I will
definitely leave the US as soon as I finish up my degree.

Last week, my state Georgia tried to pass a bill that would effectively ban
wearing the hijab (headscarf) in public. Thankfully, there was a huge amount
of backlash and the bill was withdrawn.

~~~
hackuser
FWIW, most other Americans support you and share your shock and outrage.
Clinton won a majority, remember, despite being targeted by domestic and
foreign security agencies, as well as by the Murdoch/Fox empire and the rest
of the right-wing demonization machine. Obama is very popular. (EDIT: That's
not meant to be partisan; it's just clear data that many people oppose
religious hatred - many Republicans do too.)

I hope people get organized now. I hope bad things don't happen, but only by
being organized can people act to protect their rights. As a simple example,
look at the NRA.

~~~
charlesism

        > FWIW, most other Americans support you 
        > and share your shock and outrage.
    

It's nice to have faith in humanity and everything, but "half" is more
accurate than "most"

~~~
hackuser
As far as I know, your comment is wrong. Many Republicans have openly
repudiated Trump and racial/ethnic/religious discrimination. If you mean that
Trump won nearly half the vote, remember that Trump is extraordinarily
unpopular - IIRC around two-thirds of Americans strongly dislike him - and not
every one who likes him will support all his policies. Also, about 40% of
Americans don't vote.

Finally, I strongly believe the great majority would do the right thing,
believe in the golden rule, and object to hurting others. They need to be
manipulated into supporting oppression through fear and propaganda and through
dehumanizing the victims.

------
hackuser
We're not bystanders; our industry is the most important facilitator of this
problem and we understand the causes, implications and solutions far better
than anyone. We have a serious responsibility to our fellow citizens, just as
the food industry has a responsibility not to poison everyone. What are you
and your company doing about it? You have 2 months lead time before your
competitor starts rolling out their products:

* Is your company minimizing and anonymizing user data? Is it implementing end-to-end encryption?

* If your product is hard for users to avoid (e.g., an ISP is hard to avoid, a casual game is not), do you provide a way for users to utilize it confidentially?

* Users need private alternatives, which means that FOSS projects need a lot of help making their products much more usable and reliable; can you help out?

If you are thinking, 'my little portion won't solve the problem', you're
right. Nothing gets done in a democracy unless people all do their little
portions, and unless they organize. The United States is the 'Land of the
Free' only if its citizens make it that way.

....

Also see here: [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/11/tech-companies-fix-
the...](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/11/tech-companies-fix-these-
technical-issues-its-too-late)

------
TheSpiceIsLife
_The prospect even more terrifying than a show-up-and-be-recorded registry is
that governments and private companies already have all they need to secretly
create that registry overnight._

Facebook already has all of this data, for users and many non-users.

Start panicking.

------
throwaway729
"Graph theory" of the sort that's used in social network analysis will become
the lie detector test of the 21st century -- junk science based on a poor
interpretation of elementary mathematics applied to dubious data sets.

------
ythn
Good job everyone for letting the government gain so much power. I've said it
before and I'll say it again: monolithic governments that have fingers into
every aspect of your lives are dangerous.

~~~
Thrillington
And your alternative is?

~~~
ythn
My alternative is small federal government that leaves a lot more power to
states.

------
hackuser
Concerns about privacy were considered theoretical by so many for so long. At
least now we know the theory, but we need to implement and deploy it ASAP.

------
jgalt212
Not to be flip, but given what Snowden told us, I'm pretty sure this registry
already exists.

------
whybroke
Unless the point of forcing a physical signature is to terrorize that group as
much as to collect names.

For example, lynchings were not intended as genocide but to keep blacks in
fear as much as being a source of psychological indulgence for the murders.

