

Koding - Free VMs for online development - StylifyYourBlog
http://koding.github.io/docs/guides/koding-overview/

======
aegiso
Koding(en)'s been on my radar a while since they're in a vaguely similar space
(lightweight virtualization).

But as a coder, I could never for the life of me figure out what Koding is
for. Apparently the Koding team doesn't know either.

It's a bunch of (admittedly cool) tech features thrown in a box and shaken up
a bit. Now the team is scratching their heads about what it is they've built,
trying to justify their investment money. Koding is a fine example of a
"sitcom" startup in YC parlance [1]: social virtualized viral cloud coding,
just because.

So that's my analysis. If anyone from the Koding team reads this, here's my
advice: Stop. Take a machete to 80% of the product. Figure out what it is that
you're great at, and that people really, really want. Then you won't need to
be making silly goggle videos or tragic blog posts like this one.

[1]
[http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html](http://paulgraham.com/startupideas.html)

~~~
babarock
I know what I'm going to use it for.

I work on an open source project and I've just submitted a patch. Tomorrow,
I'm travelling to go spend a week with my parents, away from home. I don't
plan on taking my laptop with me, but I want to follow up on my patch. Reviews
are probably going to ask for minor changes.

Basically, I can see myself using something like this when I'm on the move.
I'm not a big fan of dragging my laptop with me everywhere I go...

~~~
derekp7
So how is this different from either having a copy of your git repository on
your phone (which you can mount on your parent's computer), or accessing your
own home server remotely (or an EC2 micro/free tier server instance)?

~~~
recursive
It's different from having a repo on your phone because you don't have to
install git to use it.

It's different from your own remote server because you don't need to set one
up.

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farslan
Hi all, I'm one of the Koding developers. I've posted this as a comment but
thought It would be helpful to the question of "What Koding is?"

Basically, [http://koding.com](http://koding.com) offers full vm with root
support and a web-terminal (again just like a desktop terminal) to access this
it. What does it mean? It is a full featured Ubuntu where you can install any
stack you want. Want to play with Redis? No problem just do apt-get install
redis-server. Want to try to use vim? Just type vim and enter. You see that
only your imagination stops you here.

Not only this it has the concept of "Apps" that let you install custom webapps
inside Koding, which can access your VM. For example there is the Rails
Dashboard app that let you deploy and setup Rails instances with just one
click. There is the Teamwork app, which is a collaborative way to work with
your friends, basically you can share and play together on the same editor and
terminal! Just think how great this is, you basically can mentor someone, you
can get help to develop your app and so on.

Well not only this, there is also Groups where you can work and share your
with your friends,class,team, etc.. Groups are awesome because they are
totally separated from Koding and you can control and give access control to
each of the member of the groups. This are basically subreddits with their own
members and culture. Also VM's can be shared amongst the members, which makes
it awesome to work together on projects.

This is just a sneak peek and many other features are on the way. Just give it
a try please and see yourself how many great things

------
ericcholis
The title of this post is more informative than the Koding homepage or even
the docs themselves. A clearer message about why I should sign up is critical.

After watching the video, I did understand what Koding was solving and was
excited by it's potential. But, that message needs to be communicated more
clearly when visiting the Koding homepage.

From the docs:

"Koding offers nearly unlimited possibilities; so many in fact, that people
often misunderstand what Koding is being designed for. "

This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding offers:

"Koding provides free hosted VMs for development to anyone. The Koding VMs
provide you with a real Ubuntu OS, with a real Terminal, and allow you to work
on real code. Python, PHP, C++, C, it doesn't matter. Even better, they are
online. Accessible from anywhere in the world. Even sharable with teams."

On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps
allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.

~~~
leeolayvar
Heya, i'm the koding user (not staffer) who wrote those docs :)

> This seems aloof. I feel that this is more explanatory of what Koding
> offers:

I would agree with this sentiment. I didn't expect so much publicity over my
little doc project haha. I'll look at rewording that, thanks for the feedback
:)

> On a side note, would it be possible to offer offline capability? Perhaps
> allowing users to download/upload Vagrant VMs configured with Puppet.

To my limited understanding, the VMs will offer an always-on option in the
future. I haven't heard of a timeframe on any of this though.

My apologies if i'm slow to reply/etc, i'm new to this platform.

 __edit __: I made an issue on this
note.[https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/71](https://github.com/koding/docs/issues/71)

------
beck5
To actually get to the site you need to go to
[http://www.koding.com](http://www.koding.com), there didn't seem to be any
link in the docs.

The fact they publicly say its free does not strike me as a strength, how are
they going to pay the bills to store all of my data?

It looks like it started life as an online php editor (kodingen.com) but now
has broadened out to supporting vms with 'social' stuff.

Some of the main competitors are: \- [https://c9.io/](https://c9.io/) \-
[http://compilr.com](http://compilr.com) \-
[https://codenvy.com](https://codenvy.com)

The general experience after playing with it for a few minutes is quite nice,
robust file tree, good editor (ace), interesting news feed.

~~~
skinofstars
It looks to be that additional VMs cost money, so there's a business model to
start with.

btw, your compilr link goes to a domain squatter.

~~~
cdman
Either s/he edited the link or your DNS is hijacked since it works for me :-)

------
adultSwim
This is useful for me. I don't really care about the social features etc but
the core product seems good.

What is the business plan? I don't want it to be advertising or selling
information about me.

The documentation could be better. The site looks very slick but doesn't
really lay out the basics. For instance, just reading, I wasn't sure whether
or not files are stored between VM runs (i.e. being able to save my work and
configurations for use in later sessions).

The site (koding.github.io) doesn't even link to the main page (koding.com).

Side note: start ups have terrible names. What's wrong with using actual
words?

~~~
_delirium
> Side note: start ups have terrible names. What's wrong with using actual
> words?

One part "brand names have always been silly" and one part "need to find a
domain name that's available".

------
sdfjkl
Can someone explain what this does, in technical terms? The site doesn't.

~~~
mjn
From some brief playing around, it's a web-based development environment:

1\. At the simplest level, it's an installation of Ace
([http://ace.c9.io/](http://ace.c9.io/)), an in-browser code editor. So you
can edit code in-browser and it gets saved it to some (free) cloud storage.

2\. There are some social features added on to this, which I haven't really
investigated, but I guess you can form groups, get a feed of updates, share
projects, etc.

3\. In addition to the basic cloud storage + editing, you can spin up (also
free) VM instances to back the editor, forming a dev environment. Your web-
based editing space gets mounted as /home, and you have root access to an
Ubuntu machine so you can install whatever you need. This can all be managed
through either the web interface, or SSH if you prefer. However since they're
only intended to back the IDE, the VMs shut down about 20 mins after everyone
accessing one has closed their Koding browser window, to discourage using them
as free VPS hosting.

There are a few other companies in this space. Cloud9, which developed the Ace
editor ([https://c9.io/](https://c9.io/)) are possibly the best-established.
Koding seems to differentiate by emphasizing the social/collaborative features
more, and possibly in being more generous with the VMs. There is also
[https://www.nitrous.io](https://www.nitrous.io), which I don't know anything
about. If anyone's up for writing an article, I'd certainly be interested in
an overview of the current offerings from someone who's actually used them,
i.e. more in-depth than I can glean from checking out their websites.

------
talles
I already felt in love with Koding, but I had some connection issues while
using it, kinda bothering.

But the service still lovely, looking forward to see it get more stable
through the years.

------
iuguy
I watched the video and am none the wiser. What is the problem that koding
solves? It seems like some sort of groupware social network thing for dev
teams with a vm hosting thing bolted on.

~~~
leeolayvar
I'm the koding user (non staffer) who made the video.

My goal was to quickly gloss over the features with the video, but i thought
the concept of Online Development was a pretty well grasped concept. No
offense to you of course, the video obviously falls short for a lot of people.
It's not intended to be a pitch, just an overview.

I had hoped that by going over the features, that Koding would make a bit of
sense. Perhaps i need to redo the video? The short timeframe goal, really
limits me though haha.

I never intended my 2 minute overview to be on the front page of Koding, nor
be posted onto reddit and here. This is so much more publicity than a short
little video targetted at new Koding users.

Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback :)

------
farslan
There is an public announcment: [http://blog.koding.com/2013/08/koding-is-
public/](http://blog.koding.com/2013/08/koding-is-public/)

~~~
mjn
Unfortunately, this announcement doesn't tell me anything about Koding!

------
koding-dev
Hey guys, Koding developer here, thanks for the comments, there are some
really valuable ones that we should consider doing. Would gladly answer the
questions, if any?

~~~
diydsp
hi! 1. Would it be possible to download the virtual machine onto my
desktop/laptop, then, work on it for a bit, then upload it back to the virtual
machine?

2\. Would it be possible for the online virtual machine to access a USB
debugger on my desktop? thank you.

~~~
koding-dev
you can ssh/ftp into your VM but downloading it and uploading back is not
possible atm, and i don't think if it is going to be the case. As for the
second question i don't think it would be possible w/o running your VM
locally. Thanks.

------
agnasg
This page abort on Chrome/WinXP. It works on firefox. Checking the page source
code the only thing strange I see is a font hosted on googleapis.com

~~~
koding-dev
That is weird, chrome on win7 is doing fine, i am gonna install an XP box,
thanks for the notice.

~~~
theonewolf
You guys should really have a QA test bed with _all_ supported OS's and
browsers and with _every_ releasable change regression test it through all of
these OS's and browsers meticulously.

Since you're using VM technology I'd have assumed this would be a no-brainer
to setup and enforce?

~~~
philbarr
> You guys should really have a QA test bed with _all_ supported OS's and
> browsers and with _every_ releasable change regression test it through all
> of these OS's and browsers meticulously.

You and what army? They could be doing that or they could be adding
features...

P.S. I accidentally downvoted you whilst copy-pasting your comment and can't
undo it, sorry about that. Feel free to downvote me back.

------
hobs
I tried to register with github and now it just loops a popup that closes
immediately forever when I try to sign in with github or register with github.
Cool.

Update: Tried it in my unprotected chrome and after a few bumps got it
working. Once you are signed in the demo is pretty good.

~~~
getriver
Hey hobs, it's possible some chrome plugin is interfering with Github
authentication though. If you can provide a little more info, I can debug it
for you.

P.S. I work for Koding.

~~~
hobs
No worries, I got registered via chrome and now the github login works in
firefox as well. Thanks!

------
hoverbear
Koding looks interesting, however my interest in the project died after
waiting several months to get into the beta but hearing nothing and seeing no
changes to their site. I'd still love to try it though, but I won't hold my
breathe.

~~~
getriver
Hey hoverbear, sorry for the long wait time.

We're in public beta now and anyone can sign up:
[https://koding.com](https://koding.com)

P.S. I work for Koding.

------
nkuttler
The news stream on [http://www.koding.com](http://www.koding.com) is broken as
new content is simply inserted at the top and whatever you're trying to read
is jumping around randomly.

------
bwb
You guys should try
[http://www.CodeAnywhere.net](http://www.CodeAnywhere.net), free online code
editor that connects via ftp, dropbox and has a built in sandbox as well.

~~~
dm2
There are a few similar services. One is Cloud9 (c9.io)

------
informatimago
You liked how the NSA was copying all your emails from Google mail, and all
your sources from github. You will love how they'll introduce backdoors in
your programs while you write them with Koding!

~~~
asenna
Businesses cannot stop coming up with new products and solutions. We cannot
say that "Oh, NSA can access anything so let's not use anything anymore."

A better way to address the problem is to just persistently keep fighting it
and raising this issue. Running away from it will not get us anywhere.

------
CmonDev
Locked to one OS. Expected mainstream ones. Useful for a niche of people.

------
jheriko
i can see the advantage over having to set up my own vm or os install... but
by targetting an os which, to a very close approximation nobody uses, I can't
help but wonder what their target audience really is.

nobody who wants to make software for a living i'd imagine... although i guess
it could work really well for web hosting type stuff where the crippling
choice of OS is irrelevant?

~~~
farslan
What do you mean with "by targetting an os which, to a very close
approximation nobody uses"? You mean nobody uses Linux for development? That's
a comment which really doesn't have single point of truth. At least i would
except some sources that backes your argument, which you dont't have. Shame.

~~~
jheriko
nobody uses linux for much other than servers to an excellent approximation. i
shouldn't need sources for this... how many work places use linux workstations
that you have ever seen? or homes? and aren't most pre-installed linux boxes
nuked to have windows put on them?

