
STEM to STEAM - ritchiea
http://stemtosteam.org/
======
unmole
So, STEAM is Science, Technology, Engineering, Arts and Mathematics? One of
these is not like the others.

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striking
I've heard a lot about this from people who do work at STEAM events. Arts are
allegedly just as important as the rest of these, because creativity and
artistic design are part of the manufacturing process.

I keep my mouth shut, because I don't want to hurt their feelings, because
they do a lot of good work with helping kids into the STEM fields, and because
they're genuinely nice people. (I can be kind of abrasive, and they're doing
good work. So I hold off.)

But I fail to see how the color of the packaging affects how tough parts for
the space shuttle are. Is it about promoting creativity and free-forming
content into Engineering and Science, etc.? The webpage says a whole lot of
nothing. I'd be willing to rethink my position if I understood the concept a
little better (because I am clearly missing something).

Also: friend attends RISD right now. Will ask what he thinks of this.

~~~
rtpg
Arts can create a sensibility for context, and can answer the "should" of
"should we be doing this".

At least the hypothetical universe in my mind, a bunch of technocrats are a
lot more likely to commit unethical behaviour than people who have a bit more
sensibility for the human condition and history.

~~~
gaius
You can teach an engineer history a hell of a lot more easily than teaching an
art historian how to do stochastic calculus.

~~~
deadlast
Can and do are not the same. Just because different forms of knowledge are
"easier" or "more difficult" to obtain does not mean that the easier knowledge
is somehow devalued, except in the context of labor supply.

I would not say that, at this point, many engineers know or are interested
much in history or art, regardless of its social value. This is a mild failure
on the part of the free market.

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gluelogic
I'm looking at their list of objectives, trying to understand how any of it
will benefit the advancement of STEM.

It doesn't. The objectives only seek to leverage the concrete validity of STEM
as a stable platform for "arts & design," which are intuitive and incredibly
debatable by nature.

~~~
moonchrome
If anything I would assume their objective is the exact opposite - draw people
to STEM trough something popular/approachable like Art.

To be fair the site is very vague - I can't really see how this would be
different from something like industrial design/architecture ?

~~~
TeMPOraL
I'm assuming - trying to plug themselves into the acronym to capitalize on the
respect (and jobs) STEM has as "the real deal" as opposed to art fields, and
framing that as initiative to bring more people into STEM. It's cynical, I
know, but I've heard enough art/design people saying "art and design is
important too!" and completely missing the point. No one is saying design or
art is not important to humans. It's just STEM fields are different because
they deal head-on with objective, observable reality as opposed to
_incredibly_ complex internal life of humans.

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j2kun
There is an implicit assumption that STEM does not have any artistic/design
aspects to it. I imagine people who claim this have never had a long
conversation with a mathematician about what their job is actually like.

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Apocryphon
In Silicon Valley and on communities such as HN, when people talk about STEM,
they seem to usually focus on CS/EE. Given that there doesn't seem to be as
much focus here on, say, hydraulic engineering, or medicine, as there is focus
on what is necessary to create tech startups, I'm surprised to see that people
are objecting to Art. Doesn't this industry have a more pressing need for
UI/UX designers, HCI specialists, web designers, and video game music
composers, rather than astronomers or zoologists?

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jhpaul
This program misses the point by presenting a very narrow scope.

Adding the Arts to STEM is about much more than just "Art + Design" (though
that is a piece). It's an important topic of discussion and should be priority
in education.

Every child in America should leave school with a basic understanding of arts
and culture - some knowledge of music, visual arts, literature, history.

Societal progress has consistently been tied to the greater appreciation of
humanity found in these pursuits. Just as any musician or artist should have
the opportunity to understand and appreciate the basic concepts of physics or
computer science, so too should the scientist know sculpture. Creative thought
sustains critical thinking, and many of the borders between them overlap.

If we truly wish to build our future nation to be our best, we must not
discount the arts as a core pillar of any healthy society, and one worth
supporting in any way possible.

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gaius
This is clearly some sort of spoof. Or someone has _completely_ missed the
point of STEM, y'know, hard stuff where there are right and wrong answers...

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outlace
Does the U.S. have an art/design problem or shortage relative to other
nations? (non-rhetorical question, please answer). It does seem clear that the
U.S. is behind many other nations in STEM fields. Seems like promoting STEAM
vs STEM would be somewhat mutually antagonistic.

~~~
zitterbewegung
How exactly is the US behind other nation in STEM fields?

~~~
outlace
I've seen various sources claim the US is behind other nations in STEM fields,
particularly math, at the primary and secondary levels.

e.g.
[https://www.nms.org/AboutNMSI/TheSTEMCrisis/STEMEducationSta...](https://www.nms.org/AboutNMSI/TheSTEMCrisis/STEMEducationStatistics.aspx)

~~~
rewqfdsa
These disparities disappear once you account for certain key demographic
differences. In modern service-economy societies, _average_ educational
attainment is unimportant. What matters is how many positive-marginal-product
people you have, and the US still produces them in spades.

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strictnein
> "K–20 education"

I've never heard 8 years of college referred to like that. It's... strange.

~~~
noobermin
Undergrad + PhD? :/

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Jach
STEM is already too much about a gigantic T (apps! apps everywhere!) at the
expense of S, E, and M. A would be even bigger. This is nothing but entryism.

~~~
eru
What's entryism?

~~~
Jach
Essentially the same point made here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572766](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572766)
Being associated with STEM is lucrative (money, respect, ability to effect
change) and STEM explicitly leaves out the more numerous artists, lawyers,
political theorists, english literaturers, gender studiers, etc. that are part
of college-as-is. The benefits of STEM association are enough incentive for
any groups within those left out to try and get themselves in and have a
share. Hence, the Rhode Island School of Design (which ought to have no
business in STEM:
[http://www.risd.edu/academics/](http://www.risd.edu/academics/)) has been
trying to steer things. Hey, at least if they win, there will be no gender
representation problems in STEAM...

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jamesrom
The reason why artists aren't getting tech jobs isn't because there's a letter
missing from an acronym...

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Elizer0x0309
Great initiative!

A well rounded person is always better than a person that's really good at one
or fewer things.

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aroman
any relation to this (also a RISD project)?
[http://steamwith.us/](http://steamwith.us/)

(edit: why am I being downvoted?)

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karmel
This is not good for STEM, and this is not good for women. If the attention
and effort to encourage women, children, underrepresented minorities, etc. in
STEM gets diverted into "STEAM," then there is a high likelihood that many
groups will tout increased enrollment of women but funnel the women right into
the A in STEAM. (Not necessarily on purpose, but for the same complicated
reasons that women are underrepresented in STEM right now.) And then we're in
the same place we started, but with less visibility into the problem.

~~~
Animats
Hm. That's a good point. Try making it to the members of Congress behind the
"Congressional STEM to STEAM Caucus".[1] . "Current members of the caucus
include Reps. Jim Langevin (D-RI), Jared Polis (D-CO), David Cicilline (D-RI),
Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC), Gerald Connolly (D-VA), Dave Loebsack (D-IA),
Matt Cartwright (D-PA), Bobby Scott (D-VA), Louise Slaughter (D-NY), Tim Ryan
(D-OH), and Carol Shea-Porter (D-NH)."

The Rhode Island School of Design seems to be the main force behind this.
They're not really a design school, in the industrial design sense; they're a
"fine arts" school. Teaching kids the rudiments of industrial design might be
useful. It's not about self-expression; it's about what the user needs.

[1] [https://bonamici.house.gov/press-release/reps-bonamici-
and-s...](https://bonamici.house.gov/press-release/reps-bonamici-and-schock-
announce-bipartisan-congressional-steam-caucus)

