
I Was Asked for a Tip From a Flight Attendant - pgrote
https://thepointsguy.com/news/airline-with-happy-hours-and-tips/
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imgabe
Well, I wasn't going to fly Frontier anyway, but now I'm putting them with
United in the "actively avoid" bucket.

What bullshit. We need less tipping, not more.

Employers: it is YOUR job to pay your employees an acceptable wage, not mine.
If you need to provide some monetary incentive for employees to do their job
(beyond their salary), then use commissions, not tips.

~~~
hn_throwaway_99
It is Frontier after all. I'm pretty surprised they haven't installed coin
operated toilets yet.

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dahdum
Over the years there has been a push to make the public realize the importance
of the flight attendant role, that they aren’t there to serve drinks but to
ensure your safety. “Here to save your ass, not kiss it” is one way I’ve heard
it put by a FA.

Frontier is a doing a bang up job of reversing that trend with this.

~~~
throwawaymath
I don't feel my safety is assured when I'm asked to stow my laptop during
takeoff. I mostly feel annoyed. Likewise when I have to find a place to stow
the bag at my feet simply because I'm in a row without any seats in front of
me.

In my opinion, the "safety" provided by flight attendants is rather
dramatically overstated. But I'm happy to be told differently; please educate
me if you believe the attendants meaningfully increase the safety of the modal
passenger's flight.

In any case, I'm absolutely never going to tip a flight attendant. What a
regressive policy.

~~~
ddingus
The laptop has enough mass to be a seriously harmful object when unplanned
motion happens. This is most likely to happen during take off and or landing.

Same thing goes for your bag.

Technically, in the seats where there are no rows in front, your bag should be
in the overhead bin, right along with your laptop, until the aircraft leaves
the take off part of it's flight plan. Prior to entering the landing part of
the flight plan, both items need to be in the bin, and for the same reasons.

I'm kind of surprised it can just be at your feet in those seats. I never pick
them for these reasons. Having to get up, deal with the bin, etc... isn't
something I feel like doing personally.

A lot of this basic stuff is the result of simulations and other accumulated
flight / empirical data, and the intent is to maximize everyone's safety
during high risk flight times.

This is also why trays up, seats not reclined are also required during those
two known high risk flight times.

[https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/cabin_safety/media/Cab...](https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/cabin_safety/media/CabinSafetyIndex.pdf)

There is the long form word on all this. Links to the appropriate Federal law
are just a click away.

Frankly, the flight attendants are required to do what they do, and you as a
passenger are required by Federal law to comply with their directives.

I'm not entirely sure you are presenting as a model passenger, however your
perception of increased safety and it's overall value, like everyone's, can
and will vary considerably. No worries on any of that.

The authority on those things has already made the calls, and in general,
those are made to maximize safety as much as can be done.

~~~
dahdum
Well put. The flight attendants are there to enforce FAA rules and assist in
times of emergency.

We are always free to lobby the FAA to relax flight rules, allowing small
devices during takeoff is the largest change I can remember.

~~~
ddingus
Exactly. Imho, it is all quite conservative. I do not blame them.

Pretty heavy and visible responsibility.

I am happy to play along, safe as can be managed given current tech and our
understanding. That gets better over time.

Once, I got caught with no seat belt in my car. Had kids, and one of then was
a mess. I unclicked to reach and deal. Small town cop was on buckle up
campaign and I took the seat belt school option. Was only a minute too. Bad
timing, but it turned out to be good fortune.

Best class ever! No joke. I, like many, expected a dull, threatening lecture.
That did not happen.

They brought a trauma nurse in who talked safety from their point of view. A
laptop is a pretty dangerous thing when accellerated. And that guy was just
great!

Most people do not properly constrain objects in cars. I had no idea why and
how.

That nurse told us the facts, showed us the gore and blood. (Of course, this
was diversion after all), but then went through the physics and some math.
(Didn't have to, but I am glad they did)

They also went through trauma stats and trauma is the big killer. People are
just fragile to a degree we often forget, or are just not aware of.

All in all, I learned a lot! And the FAA rules make perfect sense, given the
rough scenario they must manage.

A flying laptop was one of the scenarios the trauma nurse did physics on in a
60 mph crash. It was not pretty. Meat and bone are gonna be impacted.

Oh, and I get it. I too am bothered. I just happend to have gotten that great
education. It is an understandable bother, and we all do have options.

If it were me, I would have those trauma people do sessions in every high
school. A lot of those kids would be moved. There were a ton in my session. I
was one of the older adult minority...

I thanked the nurse afterwards. He said, "first, you should know better, and
then thanks. Glad it helped." He went on to say doing those was one of his
favorite things to do. Trauma people do not get to share much, and what they
can share is powerful. Life saving.

I really did benefit and think about all this very differently.

Let me say being bothered is a very nice problem to have.

~~~
throwawaymath
Everything you've just talked about is in the context of cars. Unbuckling your
seatbelt in a car is very different from unbuckling it in an airplane.

The reason why I am so skeptical is because the rules are applied
inconsistently and seem to have questionable benefit. Why am I not required to
stow items when the plane experiences significant turbulence? All that's
required of me then is to buckle my seatbelt. But the laptop could fly out of
my hands, right?

Likewise, the most prevalent danger for which we actually have statistics is
people not wearing their seatbelts during takeoff or during turbulence. But
flight attendants don't (in my experience) enforce the seatbelt rule. Instead,
they enforce the rule which seems far more arbitrary. If turbulence is really
significant, I am much more likely to hit my own head on the ceiling of the
airplane than I am to inadvertently launch the laptop in the air to hit
someone else.

But wait, if a laptop is not allowed while we're taking off then why am I
allowed to use a large tablet of approximately the same size? A large
textbook? If the issue is the tray, why can't I use the laptop on my lap? The
rules are arbitrary and inconsistently applied.

I don't agree with "being bothered is a nice problem to have." That construes
the problem as being diminutive because we're prioritizing safety; wearing a
seatbelt is not bothersome, but they don't even enforce that on planes. What
_is_ bothersome is not being able to use any personal entertainment because of
vague "safety" considerations.

~~~
ddingus
So you regularly do not use your airplane seat belt, haven't experienced any
real pressure to comply, so the other rules are a bother too?

Seriously? :D (Plz laugh in good spirits. I am. That is good entertainment)

Take off and landing portions of the flight plan are not large amounts of
time. Surely you can manage to entertain yourself with one or more of the many
options during those times?

The car related info, regarding the potential for trauma is valid. Have you
been on a flight where something major has happened? (You may be asked to stow
things, for one)

I do not believe you have, by the nature of your questions.

Also, given the nature of your questions, your perception of risk is well
below actuals. That does make your position on all this perfectly
understandable. I get it. No worries. I think you need answers and should take
in the information the FAA and others gladly provide.

Like cars, seat belts are law because of the metrics and analysis done over
years of travel. I do think some of those laws could be improved. Many will
over time.

Unfortunately for you, other far more qualified people than us have assessed
those risks and have come to diffetent conclusions.

Let me just say a model passenger would comply and be ready to assist others,
should the need arise.

Fly safe!

Edit: doing that, by the way, is it clear priority over entertainment and
other minor things we are talking about here. Let's keep that in mind.

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kozikow
I think some of situations like that are simply caused by standardized POS
systems being used.

Some greed was probably involved as well, but I've a few similar situations,
where tip was asked in non-tippy scenarios after business adapted new POS
system.

~~~
dahdum
Frontier confirmed it’s a policy change, it’s intentional.

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m0zg
Wait till they start asking for tips for pilots as a percentage of your
airfare. And charge them up front. No tips? An extra turbulent, puke-your-
guts-out flight for you!

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daly
Umm, I usually give my flight attendants a $20 tip each. These people have
been paying attention to my health, safety, and comfort needs for the last 6
hours. They are always pleasant and friendly. My tip will buy them dinner. I
used bring them candy but someone pointed out that they could not eat it
during flight because it might be tainted. Sigh.

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notus
This is comparable to when you go to a place where you pay before you eat and
there is a tip field on the receipt. You simply do not fill it out if you
don't want to tip. This is a non-issue. You are perfectly capable of declining
to tip someone.

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nightski
If you are willing to spend $2.99 on a can of soda do you really need to
complain about a $0.50 tip which you don't even need to give?

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ddingus
They can ask. I'm in the "you don't get, unless you ask" camp, and am fine
with asking.

Doesn't mean they will get it.

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bdamm
Flight attendants should totally have a tip jar on the way out. I try my
hardest to message the company and state why any particular flight attendant
was particularly exceptional but it would be nice to have an easier way to say
thank you.

~~~
mpeg
BA has "golden tickets" they give to the top tier rewards customers, which you
can then hand to any member of BA staff that has made a positive impact for
you.

They don't get cash for it, but I understand it goes in their file.

Ironically, I had my golden tickets go unused as most BA staff I've flown with
have been average at best for the past few years, even when sitting in
business / first.

