
New York state has banned cat declawing - evo_9
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/22/politics/new-york-bans-cat-declawing-trnd/index.html
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rblatz
I know a lot of people that would not own a cat that isn't declawed. I wonder
what the net outcome is on cats being euthanized, I'm sure this will increase
that number.

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rkho
I would be much happier knowing that these people not own any pets if they
were unable to care for them in a humane way. Declawing a cat is the
equivalent to removing someone's fingers at the individual knuckle level. It's
impractical, cruel, and causes lasting physical problems for the cat.

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kerkeslager
I don't know if I agree with you or not, but when you make strange claims like
that it's "impractical", it calls into question the legitimacy of your other
claims.

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kerkeslager
I haven't formed an opinion on this yet. I love cats and my gut is sympathetic
to anti-declawing viewpoints as I would never declaw a cat myself, but I'm
seeing a lot of anti-declawing rhetoric here that makes very little sense if
you look at it logically in contrast with neutering.

If you're an opponent of declawing, are you also an opponent of neutering? If
not, can you present an argument against declawing that isn't also a
straightforward argument against neutering?

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krageon
Neutering is necessary mostly for societal benefit: It prevents stray cats
(via catch and release) and/or runaways from creating more cats.

Declawing is necessary mostly for personal benefit: You can't train your cat
and therefore it must lose their claws.

One is something that's useful for society as a whole, the other is useful
because you are an asshole. That's mostly how I've seen the distinction. What
kind of arguments have you encountered in the wild?

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kerkeslager
I guess the counterargument I've seen for this is that declawed cats are more
likely to be adopted, and allowing declawing makes intact cats more likely to
be adopted--both societal benefits. It seems like the fact that it _also_
benefits an individual is sort of a distraction here.

Thanks for trying, but I think I'm still in the same place: I don't have a
persuasive argument for or against declawing.

That said, my gut feeling is still against it, so I'm not going to exactly go
lobby to bring back declawing. I wonder if that's basically why declawing is
illegal in so many places--people following their instincts are against it,
and nobody feels strongly enough for it to defend it.

In any case, I'm not bent that it's illegal now (I live in NY), just puzzled.

EDIT: Okay, I guess I have a question which would settle this for me: is
adoption of cats _actually_ a societal benefit as compared to having more
strays? An Aoshima-style[1] island of cats doesn't seem like a dystopia to me,
and it seems like stray cats are capable of caring for themselves without
human intervention. There are probably some downsides (in NY state, ticks) but
there are other solutions to those problems.

[1] [https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2015/03/a-visit-to-
aoshima...](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2015/03/a-visit-to-aoshima-a-
cat-island-in-japan/386647/)

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partisan
We adopted a declawed cat. He died at the ripe old age of 16 and gave us as
many years of joy and happiness, but it was true that he was particularly
skittish even around us who he had known his entire life. It was clear he was
traumatized in some way and that may have contributed in some way.

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dahartigan
Been illegal here in Queensland, Australia for quite some time now.

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Joakal
Cats are legal to own. They get shelter, clean food and water including
medical care. In fact people release cats into wild when they don't want to
care for them leading to a lot of wildcats. While some places forbid cats
going outside and encourage desexing, all this doesn't help the disadvantaged
wildlife. Cats should be banned.

Why not legalize ownership of domesticated native animals such as koalas for
example? Boom to tourism, culture and wildlife. Lots of funds can go to
welfare of wildlife instead of foreign animals. What happens to domesticated
koalas being released by people who dont want to care for them? A lot of wild
koalas.

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flukus
Taking a native animal and locking them in a back yard doesn't make them
domesticated. Dogs and cats (to a lesser extent) co-evolved with humans over
thousands of years and can even be seen as a partnership.

Koalas in particular would make terrible pets, they need a lot of space for
multiple Eucalyptus trees to keep them fed because they're stupid to recognize
fresh leaves pulled off a tree from leaves still attached to a tree, they can
be very aggressive, they piss everywhere and thanks to their diet it's got an
extremely strong smell. And to top it all off this smelly piss can transmit
the chlamydia that they are widely suffering from to humans.

Outdoor cats should be banned but they aren't going to be replaced by Koalas
any time soon.

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Joakal
Wild animal babies are rescued all the time. Fed and returned to wild. That's
a potential source. But it will still take time but possible, an example I've
followed are siberian foxes. Who expects an adult koala born in a backyard to
suddenly be domesticated? I expect domestication of a wild adult koala to be
the same as domesticating an adult wildcat. Very difficult despite "thousands
of years of existing with humans"

I don't think koalas need the space. We're certainly not giving cats and dogs
lots of room with chickens for them to feed on. We've been giving them dry and
canned food. Another example are horses who eat hay are often in the barn.

There's not much funding for Chlamydia or similar health issues they have
because the funding relies on government and people goodwill. If over a
million koalas are owned by people, a lot of people would pay for medical
solutions for their ill family members. Average population just doesnt have
the same goodwill towards wild animals.

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flukus
> I don't think koalas need the space. We're certainly not giving cats and
> dogs lots of room with chickens for them to feed on. We've been giving them
> dry and canned food. Another example are horses who eat hay are often in the
> barn.

The need the space for the trees, they need the trees because they simply
won't eat from non-fresh sources. Buying food from the shop like we do for
cats and dogs is simply not an option.

> I expect domestication of a wild adult koala to be the same as domesticating
> an adult wildcat

Why would you expect that given the wildly different starting points? Wildcats
are somewhat generalist carnivorous pack animals, quite similar to our selves
and species that have been (debatably) domesticated before. Koalas are hyper
specialized and very stupid herbivores with no domesticated relatives. There
are many species on earth but very few of them are suitable for domestication,
especially domestication in modern urban environments.

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funkjunky
I thought part of the fun of having a cat is the claws. I really don't
understand how people could mutilate their supposed loved ones like this, it's
barbaric.

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HomeDeLaPot
So is this a big loss for birds and small animals, or were the cats getting
declawed not "outside cats" anyway?

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mycall
Smart time to invest into couch manufacturers.

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Krasnol
TIL: declawing.

Maybe a cat is not the right animal for you...

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snuxoll
Unfortunately some landlords/property managers have made declawing mandatory
in their lease agreements, and many cat owners may be unaware of what the
procedure actually entails.

In fact, the property management group that handled placing us in our home had
mandatory declawing in their standard lease agreement. This was a no-go for
us, and we quickly contacted the property owner (who is super awesome, and we
lease from her directly so doubly so) and had it taken out. Our landlady
didn’t fuss about it, but I highly encourage renters stand up against clauses
like this and bring facts against misconceptions against “declawing”.

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RickJWagner
Probably after hard lobbying from the furniture cabal.

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darkpuma
They should have banned outdoor cats at the same time. Cats shouldn't be
declawed and neither should they be outside, but if they're going to be
outside it is better for the native wildlife if they have been declawed
(making them ineffective hunters.)

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sokoloff
My cat growing up was declawed and seemed to still be a fairly effective
hunter given the frequency of offerings she brought home. She could also climb
trees up to about 7-8 feet.

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darkpuma
Are you suggesting that house cat claws are vestigial? That simply isn't the
case. Their claws improve their hunting success rate dramatically since they
use them to snare their prey. A declawed cat may still have some success in
hunting, but will be far less effective. In fact is one of the arguments I've
often heard offered up by advocates of declawing bans (to reiterate, I also
support declawing bans but I believe that particular argument against it is
misguided.)

