
Ask HN: How do you find freelance/contract gigs? - eatonphil
I am a full-time software developer looking for extra income. I spend a lot of time &quot;cold-emailing&quot; local businesses and messaging other companies who are actually looking for applicants. The result is always the same: &quot;we are not looking for freelancers&#x2F;contractors right now&quot;.<p>I have also used freelance sites before (unsuccessfully) like ODesk and Elance, and I have really hated how they work. It seems like all freelancing on those sites is a price war. I am confident about my skill-set and I&#x27;m not worried about not being able to deliver, but the way bidding is organized on these sites feels really demeaning.<p>So ultimately, my question for HN is how do YOU find or establish new freelance&#x2F;sub-contracting&#x2F;contracting gigs? Should I just deal with my annoyance at ODesk&#x2F;Elance or are there methods I&#x27;m missing? Thanks!
======
keithwarren
I have been on my own for 15 years. I bill around 150/hr give or take 20%
depending on the situation. Most of the work is Microsoft stack web related
but mobile apps and api building has been steadily increasing for a several
years now to the point that probably 20% of my 2014 revenue was in that space.

50-60% of my revenue is sub-contracting. I have a few firms that often take on
projects that they are not suited for or do not want to increase staff to
cover and they often sub out all or parts of the project to me. These
relationships were built through networking with other developers who worked
for these companies - never the bosses per se. Meet other devs and when the
company needs help, they remember and recommend. In my experience this kind of
introduction is about 5x as fertile as a cold intro.

Roughly 30% of my revenue is from direct relationships between myself and
another company. These tend to merit a higher rate but also increased risk.

Very few of my direct relationships start from cold calling/intro (not sure if
any ever did actually); most came via word of mouth recommendations of other
people. Networking at the right kinds of events can also increase your profile
and help you meet the right people.

ProTip: Networking at _networking_ events is a terrible idea.

Lacking a sales force the best pseudo sales force you can create are
acquaintances who understand your skill set and respect you as a person. They
don't need to see your work, they don't need to have hired you before - to
drop your name to someone who asks. They need to know your name, what you do
and have a generally good feeling about you. If you pay them back for this,
even with a simple thank you or lunch - they will continue to be an advocate
for you.

Another tip which probably falls into the anecdotal evidence category - get
off of ODesk and ELance. You are right about the price war. Your name and
value to people also gets damaged because you seem to be just another guy
among thousands who need to find work that way - it is a 'dime a dozen'
mentality and they will always see you as that.

~~~
jordsmi
How exactly do you 'network' at these events. Do you just introduce yourself
and sort of talk, have a business card that you give, or how's it go?

Just wondering from someone who's never been to any type of event, so I've
never had to really do any networking

~~~
msellout
Instead of "networking" just try to make friends. It's basically the same
thing.

------
msutherl
Pro tip: when people say "build a network," they really mean "make friends in
your and related industries." Like, actual friends: people you go out for
drinks with and enjoy talking to. The trust you build, as friends, will lead
to work.

Normally you meet these people in unexpected ways. Just today I was offered a
potential job from a girl I met while auditioning apartments. I've also gotten
jobs from people I've met on dating websites, on the train at 2am coming home
from a party, and on unrelated online forums.

Leave the house, keep an open mind, be friendly.

------
USNetizen
Network, network, network. Referrals are the prime driver of business for
many, if not most, freelancers. When you get a client and have done good work,
ask them "what three other people do you know who could use my
services?"...things like that. Don't be afraid to ask for it. Get out of the
home office and attend events and conferences. Start meeting people and ASK
for their business. Don't be shy about it.

Also, don't expect much from cold emails. It's way too impersonal. Telephone
calls are only slightly better, but in-person events are by far the best. Your
goal should be to MEET as many people in-person as possible.

------
notduncansmith
I do business pretty exclusively through referrals in my network. Every now
and again someone will find me through my site, but I do 0 outbound
marketing/sales. Caveat: if I were consulting full-time, I would be doing
content marketing and have an autoresponder series.

Actionable tip #1: whenever you do work for someone, be sure to get a
testimonial. If possible, do a full case-study on your engagement. Feature
these prominently on your site. Then, just keep in touch with everyone you do
business with. DON'T directly ask for referrals. Just ask how their business
is doing. Make it about them. They'll remember this and like you for it, and
you'll be at the front of their mind when the topic of consultants comes up.

Actionable tip #2: read this blog post by Patrick McKenzie, the man's advice
is pure gold. [http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-
pro...](http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/)

------
Loic
Build your network and nurture it. Then, after a while it will come along
nicely. I run my business in the field of chemical properties, fluid phase
equilibria, so really a niche market, but every year, I send a card to all my
contacts in the field (100+ cards) and I try to write a personal note for each
person. I takes time, but it now a kind of tradition I do not want to break
(started for 2008). On the back of the card, I have a link to a summary of my
year and what is coming next. 80% of my contracts are coming after such card.

Front of my 2015 card:

[http://ceondo.com/media/files/img/2015-small.jpg](http://ceondo.com/media/files/img/2015-small.jpg)

I use Moo to print the cards, quality is great and service excellent. This is
a referral link, just remove the /share... if you do not want to follow the
referral.

[http://www.moo.com/share/28nw8g](http://www.moo.com/share/28nw8g)

~~~
jamesk_au
Could you elaborate on the "summary of my year and what is coming next"
please? How do you make it relevant and interesting to clients, eg if your
contracts tend to involve disparate kinds of work? Or is this possible because
you operate in such a niche area? Thanks. Will follow the referral.

~~~
Loic
In my case, I am really in a niche market, so it is pretty easy. But even if
you are let say in general iOS App development you can find the commonalities
in your work which can help others in the future.

Let say you created a nice messaging system for an App, you then explain that
this expertise can be reused from messaging between people on a human disaster
zone but also when people are meeting to run a "catch the flag" game in your
area.

Here is for example my link at the back I sent this year:
[http://ceondo.com/2015](http://ceondo.com/2015)

Nothing crazy, the real thing is really, you sent a letter, a real one, you
tried to wrote a small note reminding the contact about a good time together
or wishing success in the area he is working (be just specific enough so he
knows it is not a "I write the same on all the cards" note) and simply try to
be nice.

------
FigBug
I've been contracting for 4 years. I have received 1 job via my website. The
rest have been through contacts, primarily through people I previously worked
for when I was a full time employee. I've got a few through people I know from
cycling. Cycling is apparently the new golf.
[http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/04/business-
net...](http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2013/04/business-networking)

I find events and conferences to not be much use, unless they are very
specific to your industry.

------
dmarques1
There are a few services now that scour dozens of sites around the web for
freelance dev jobs, haven't tried one yet but have considered:
[https://freelanceinbox.com](https://freelanceinbox.com)

[http://letsworkshop.com/](http://letsworkshop.com/)

[http://freelancefunnel.com/](http://freelancefunnel.com/)

[https://freelancedevleads.com/](https://freelancedevleads.com/)

[http://www.flexjobs.com/](http://www.flexjobs.com/)

~~~
itake
my concern with these services is finding clients online is tough and I think
you are competing with other online and probably cheaper devs.

------
netaustin
I run a medium-sized digital agency that started as side work that my co-
founder and I basically fell into. We ran our business on the side for about a
year before going full-time. I would advocate stepping back and asking what
you're really looking for out of the time you have and proceeding carefully.

Selling software development services as an individual is extremely risky,
especially if you are selling services to buyers who are not tech-savvy. It
takes patience and energy, and software developers have a finite amount of
these resources.

Serious consulting generally requires daytime availability. It's a slippery
slope from "side hustle" to "leading a double life." If extra income is what
you're after, is it an option to change jobs for better pay, or to get more
income from your day job?

One bit of advice if you stick with this plan: you can make the sideline
nature of the contract work a benefit in your clients' eyes if you set your
rates at a level where they feel like they're getting a good deal compared to
what you'd be charging if you worked full-time as a consultant. You can also
mitigate the cost to your performance at your day job if you consult on a
different technology than you use at work.

But if your day job is in professional services, I strongly recommend against
contracting on the side. If it's all you do, work-for-hire will slowly kill
you.

------
asgeo1
I get most of my leads from either:

* My website. I rank reasonably well in Google for search phrases such as "Freelance Developer in $mycity". Probably if I blogged I would get more traffic. But it doesn't hurt to get a website going, and see if you can get ranked in Google for a particular geographic area. I suppose it's only really useful if you live in a city large enough that businesses are trying to find developers in via Google.

Also I've found that the people who do search Google for developers in a
geographic area, are generally doing this because they want someone local, and
have often previously tried offshore developers and not liked the results.

* LinkedIn / Github / Stackoverflow - occasionally I get leads from these sites. LinkedIn is easily the best of the three. I don't think you even need many connections on LinkedIn (I've only got 60). I think I just show up in the search results. Usually LinkedIn you will get recruiters looking to fill a contract job. Github/Stackoverflow are usually other developers from a company looking for someone to help out on a project.

I'm a bit disappointed in Stackoveflow Careers - I've never had a lead from
there, which is odd.

* Referrals. This is probably the best way to get work - it would be hard if you were young and just starting out I guess. I've found that now and then clients will mention you to other potential clients, and it does kind of snowball a bit once you've worked for enough people.

------
jqm
Don't contract as a contractor to businesses that are programming themselves.
Build things for businesses that will be the end user. Most of these types of
businesses have less of a notion of how to go about getting tools that will
help their business in the first place and it can be a hard sell unless they
have an immediate need. Sometimes you have to really learn about the specifics
of how the business functions and this can be a pain. But once you build a few
small accounting apps that export to CSV or inventory management tools
specific to the business...stuff of that nature, you have a good point to take
off from and examples to show. You do have to deliver though... a finished
product, not just code. But I stay pretty busy like this.

~~~
jqm
Just to expand a bit... here are a few things I have built over the past
several years (part time now... I have a full time job)...

-A load builder, temporary placement scheme creator, and shipping router for a large cattle feedlot in the Midwest (my brother got me this job, while I was working on it a building maintenance man came by, asked about it, told his wife who did data entry for a crop harvesting company and I got the gig below)...

-A ticket management and payment system for a crop harvesting company. The original application was in Access, and was slow and clumsy and full of bugs leading to bad payments at times. I re-wrote it using SQL, python and web interface, and host it for the company. Now they can use the application when they are out doing remote harvests (they harvest grains etc. in 4 or 5 states). The owner was pleased and recommended me to a milk producing co-op (below).

-Milk production and payment calculation for a 15 dairy co-op. Working on this right now weekends and evenings (I have a full time job). This is a complicated application that takes a number of factors (amount of Butterfat, government fuel prices, amount of bacteria etc.) and calculates payment due to individual dairies. The original app is in Lotus Approach and it's been a struggle getting everything out and finding how it all fits together (the person who made the original application passed away). In fact, I should be working on it right now instead of playing on HN. But Lotus Approach is no fun. At all.

Not sexy.. but good side work that fills a real need. There are lots of
companies that could use an update, or have very specific needs they can't
fill with off the shelf software. And they generally don't have a clue about
how to fill that need.

------
dannyr
I did contracting for over 2 years. All my contracts were through a referral
from my network.

I never had to do cold-emails.

I live in the Bay Area though where there are a lot of companies looking for
somebody to build their Android app.

What's great with the network though is that I never had to negotiate rates
since there's already some trust established.

Those who found me through LinkedIn though seem to negotiate a lot with rates
which can be a pain.

~~~
jmilloy
So the question becomes, "How do you find a good network/agency?", which is
what I'm thinking about currently. Maybe it's not very hard?

~~~
dannyr
Years of work. I networked my ass off for years. Hackathons, developer
meetups, etc.

I probably would have had trouble finding projects if I decided to do
contracting when I moved to the Bay Area right away.

For my first few projects, my rate was really low. It was meant to help
friends out and get to work on high-profile projects. Some of the companies I
have worked for ended up doing YC or raising seed/VC money.

------
lwhalen
Not to hijack someone else's thread or anything, but if folks have a line on a
site that pairs 'people who need *nix-based system
administration/automation/devops-anything' with 'system
administrators/automaters/devops engineers' and could post it, I would be
deeply grateful.

~~~
arafalov
If you mean for a short advice/discussion, then something like
[https://www.airpair.com/](https://www.airpair.com/) might be worth looking
at.

~~~
lwhalen
I mean everything from "our pre-existing Puppet manifest had its owner leave
the company 6 months ago and no one here knows how to refactor it to work with
Widget X" (a day or three's worth of work) to "we've given devs the keys to
our AWS account six months ago, and our burn rate ballooned to $600k/mo.
Please optimize our AWS environments to what we really need, lock down the
Wild West our development team created, and maybe spiff up our automation a
bit so it's more hands-off and/or make it so we don't have to memorize IP
addresses for everything" (N months to a year of work, depending). I will
definitely check out AirPair though, thanks for the link!

------
up_and_up
I have been moonlighting/contracting on the side for a couple years now:
[http://www.featlabs.com](http://www.featlabs.com)

I drum up work by:

* Posting myself on the Monthly HN Whois hiring Freelancers thread (1st of month)

* [http://www.authenticjobs.com/](http://www.authenticjobs.com/)

* Attending and doing talks at meetups - got a recent retainer from doing this.

* Old contacts pinging me about projects (rare)

Odesk and Elance, IMHO, are not worth my time. It is a race to the bottom
honestly.

I get at least 3 hits a month from my HN posting of which one is solid enough
to move forward with in some fashion. Since its part time I dont need more
than two clients at a time.

------
asfarley
I've had some success on elance. The trick is to be _extremely_ selective
about who you will talk to. Also, refuse to compete on price. The good clients
will see the difference; if they're comparing you against a large firm, you
will be competitive on price even if you're making a reasonable hourly rate.

Lately I'm starting to think that both of these points apply to
freelancing/contracting whether it's online or through some other channel.

Also, build a decent portfolio of your work.

------
robwilliams88
I run workshop (a service mentioned already:
[http://letsworkshop.com](http://letsworkshop.com) that delivers freelance
consulting opportunities)

I've seen this question come up a lot and its part of the reason I started
workshop. For me emailing companies who specifically said they were looking
was great because I was able to control it directly.

Since starting workshop I've helped hundred of freelancers make a lot of
money, but some continue to make nothing. It mostly has to do with the emails
they send and a few big common mistakes:

\-- emails too long \-- blab on about themselves \-- obviously scripted \--
don't propose a next step

It's easy to focus on the wrong things. "What's the Best job board?" "There's
not my exact perfect match" "there's not enough opportunities"

But if you focus on emailing one person everyday that needs help, and write an
email focused on their problem and not you, you CAN and WILL make a lot of
money.

I've seen it with hundreds in your position

~~~
shubhamjain
I have mailed atleast a dozen people with visible PHP errors on their website
and a convincing reason that I am capable of helping them out but never got a
response. Is there anything else you suggest that might work?

~~~
robwilliams88
The PHP errors may not be enough on their own to convince them that there's a
problem worth fixing.

You need to tie those errors to business problems/benefits. A client may not
know / care what a php error does to their site unless they know that it's
losing them money, conversions, visitors, etc.

------
tomasien
I almost entirely use my network to get jobs - if you possibly can, build a
personal network, because that network will start referring you to people as
an expert. This will allow you to rapidly increase the price of your services.
I know this is difficult to get started - but whatever you do to get your
first few jobs, make those people into contacts and over deliver.

As a side note: anyone doing freelancing that is struggling with the tax part
of it, would love to get your feedback on
[http://painless1099.com](http://painless1099.com) \- a smart bank account for
your 1099 income that does automatic withholding and helps make your tax
situation more like that of a W2's. Product is deep in development by some
awesome folks (I'm advising) and they still need more sophisticated eyes on it
to get the alpha right.

~~~
mpierce9447
This is very interesting! I work for Hired (Hired.com - check it out) here in
SF and am leading our efforts in launching our Contract Category. I'd be more
than happy to help with painless1099.com, great idea! I would also love to get
your perspective on several things. Let me know if you are up for chatting
sometime?

~~~
tomasien
What's your email? Let's connect man.

------
wsc981
Some companies (in the Netherlands) don't want to deal directly with
freelancers, for legal reasons. Also, they don't want to bother looking for
developers themselves, while at the same time they are not interested in
providing developers with any permanent positions. Usually they use a middle
man to find appropriate developers for a fixed fee. Such a middle man might be
able to provide you with several clients you'd not be able to contact yourself
directly.

Some headhunters don't mind dealing with freelancers either. Currently I'm
freelancing through Computer Futures.

------
clapas
I am in a similar situation to the OP and I'd like to thank you for all your
valuable sharings.

For me, it seems obvious that referals are the best way to attract new
clients, but there are times when you just don't have them. I agree with most
of the comments about freelance sites not being worth the effort, but I want
to contribute with my perpective on cold-emailing or cold-anything.

Although I don't have much experience, I found very usefull an advice from the
blog of inboundsales.net: the people you contact when you do cold-something
are regarded as "suspects" (everyone in your target market). As such, they
will not be receptive to invasive sales messages, but they will value your
knowledge and will appreciate any great content you are able to share with
them, like infographics, non-demo videos, interesting articles about their
problems, etc. Then, if they take action, they become "prospects", and so on.
It is a kind of science, not easy for us computer geeks. I am starting with
this in mind and hope it yields good results.

------
jules
Referrals, and some gigs found me after I wrote some technical articles. I
have not done any cold calling and I have not used any freelancer sites. If
you're good then it's a bad idea to participate in a lemons market. It's much
better to start from a position where you don't have to convince your client
that you are capable of delivering value.

------
phillytom
When I consulted I also offered training on different technologies, languages,
etc. Training itself is not very lucrative, but it's great for lead
generation.

Also, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, post in the HN
Freelance thread on the first of every month. I've hired a number of
freelancers from there.

------
damm
I've been a 'Contractor' since 2012 and I haven't gotten thrown out of my hose
for non-payment of rent so I guess I am doing good.

First off:

There really is no good 'job' site for Contracts. There are a lot of 'Work
From Home/Work Remotely' sites; but there is not one for contracting exactly.

What I do:

I network through people I know; cold calling can work if you see the company
has a problem and you tailor yourself as the fix. But often those are short
term gigs unless they love you.

Other than that.

Don't be afraid to post yourself on the monthly who's hiring and who wants to
get hired. Making yourself visible will net a few responses that maybe gold.

Lastly, Stackoverflow Careers job has bene helpful.

Really last comment: [http://thenubbyadmin.com/2014/01/20/best-list-of-remote-
sysa...](http://thenubbyadmin.com/2014/01/20/best-list-of-remote-sysadmin-job-
sites/)

------
EGreg
Networking and being known as the go-to guy for something many people need.
For me it's been social media and apps, I've worked with startups and
interactive agencies and seen it all. It often helps to give a free
consultation and send in your own proposal to be paid corp-to-corp, then hire
people to help you. It helps even more to have a small shop with a portfolio
and be listed prominently for that particular technology.

If you want to go to the next level, create an open source project or start a
blog, to get a reputation. The more people hear about you the more some of
them will convert to potential customers, increasing ambient demand.

Look at Yehuda Katz with Ember for instance, or the guy Bob who wrote nvd3.
Having a niche that can help businesses improve their bottom line pays very
well.

------
cahlansharp
I've found that other programmers are one of the best places to get your first
few gigs from. The best programmers are too swamped to take on extra work, and
many are eager to refer rejected clients on to someone they can make a solid
recommendation for.

So I would personally try to network with some well-known, talented folks in
your own community and let them know you're looking. If they trust you and are
good, you'll likely get referrals.

From there, if you treat your clients well and do good work, freelance will
find you. You'll quickly find yourself having to say "no" to too much work.
Word of mouth is a very powerful referral source when it comes to contract
work. It can also work against you very powerfully if you don't do a good job
or screw anyone over.

------
scrollaway
I've used Peopleperhour.com to build my career. It has a good community and
isn't a "php-farm" like the other freelance sites (though it has been going
downhill a bit lately). I still would highly recommend it but you will need a
good profile before you start getting jobs. Though, once I did have a good
profile, potential clients kept inviting me to bid to all sorts of jobs, so
it's not hard to get good income out of it once you get started.

I don't use it much anymore since I found a full-time job, but it kept me in
great shape for almost four years.

Below is an affiliate link if you're OK with it.

[https://www.peopleperhour.com/site/register?rfrd=145291.1](https://www.peopleperhour.com/site/register?rfrd=145291.1)

------
tejay
No doubt, the best freelance gigs are the result of close, pre-existing
relationships. Easier said than done tho if you're just getting your start.

Try using the sites mentioned within the thread - pickcrew, gun.io, etc. -
these sites generally have higher-priced contracts and more interesting work
than the classic variants. Use these sites at first to discover what work you
like and build long-terms relationships with a few key clients.

1\. Remember that the comms overhead with freelance work can be really lumpy
and unpredictable. Programming is the fun part - the phone calls and emails
can get painful really quickly

2\. Avoid hourly pricing whenever possible. Do value-based pricing. Just trust
me on this one.

~~~
mpierce9447
Hey tejay!

My name is Matt Pierce and I work for Hired here in SF. (Check out hired.com)
I am leading our efforts in building out our Contract Category. I would love
to chat with you if you are available over the next couple of weeks? I
specifically have questions about the value based pricing vs. hourly, etc. I
know the guys over at gun.io and we actually just chatted about the same
topic. Would love to get your perspective. Let me know if/when you are free?

Cheers,

------
raeldc
I became a freelancer shortly after graduating college. Though sites like
Elance/Odesk/Freelancer.com(GetAFreelancer back then) provided me a platform
to start with, it didn't take long before the cutthroat prices made it
unsustainable.

The answer, which has been mentioned already by other commenters, is network.
You need a great network and a great reputation. The real question is how do
you build a great network? And how do you build a great reputation? As an
introvert geek with only a drop of marketing prowess in my DNA, I struggled
about the same questions.

One way I built my network is through Open Source Communities. Joomla! was
just forked out of Mambo back then and there was an opportunity to participate
in the then small community. So I joined the community, made friends with the
right people, and I made a living out of building Joomla! Extensions. I also
participated in other OS communities like Django, Kohana, and many others. The
more I participated, the more my connection and reputation grows. The flow of
projects from the connections I got from those communities allowed me to
survive, and also thrive, which enabled be to build my own web development
company ([https://www.wizmedia.net](https://www.wizmedia.net)).

I think that marketplace sites like oDesk/Elance/99designs/TaskRabbit etc are
horrible place to be in for creative people particularly programmers and
designers. I've been looking for alternative places to go to but didn't find
any that is fair for both Clients and Freelancers. So it became an idea for my
Startup that I'm building right now. That is Creatizens -
[http://www.creatizens.com](http://www.creatizens.com). It's still under
development, but you can read more about it here
[https://angel.co/creatizens](https://angel.co/creatizens). The idea is based
on the fact that the most profitable freelancers get their projects from their
professional network - mostly from colleagues who has overflow projects, or
ex-coworker whose company needs contractors. I don't want to talk too much
about it since I'm bordering on spammy so I leave it at that.

Cheers!

------
pablo-massa
[https://angel.co/jobs](https://angel.co/jobs) has given me results. You can
filter by "Remote OK" and the job position, also subscribe to email
notifications for that filter.

------
mcv
Mostly my gigs tend to find me. A recruiter calls me, and if I'm available
(rarely), I discuss details and rate, go talk with the client, and sign a
contract. This does make me very dependent on recruiters, and some recruiters
are absolute scum, but there are also some good ones. My CV is out there on
Linkedin, Monster, etc, and people apparently know how to find me. It's the
lazy way to freelancing, I guess, it works for me. At €70/hr I'm apparently a
bit cheaper than some other people here, but it's still better than what a lot
of my salaried friends make.

------
mafellows
Avoid eLance and oDesk. You're positioning yourself on the low-end of the
market just by being on the site. Network locally and get to know
entrepreneurs in your area. Reaching out to other dev shops can also be a
great way to get consistent contract work. Don't underestimate the value of
remote clients either. Services like letsworkshop.com send out quality remote
web development opportunities. They're not perfect, but they can be well worth
the cost. iOSLeads.com and AndroidLeads.net are a couple of services I started
for mobile devs. Happy to answer any questions.

------
woohoo7676
I've been contracting for about 3 years now, one I found via StackOverflow
Careers, and the other was via a co-working space.

I think the general consensus here is right. Avoid finding jobs on contractor
bidding sites like Elance/Odesk (they're devaluing your work/skills). Put
yourself in positions where you can tell people about your skills/services,
and where people might be looking for said skills. I'd start with tech
meetups, co-working spaces, other places where people you might want to work
with are. Good luck!

------
sheraz
I'm late to the game here, but I'll chime in. There is a general consensus
here that networking is the fastest path to that first dollar, and I agree.

The freelance marketplace is a big reason I created 3cosystem[1] - the biggest
and most comprehensive tech and startup event calendar.

See if your metro area is listed. There are certainly a number of events
popping up around you. Show up early and talk to the organizers. They might
mention you in their pre-game presentations.

[1] - [http://www.3cosystem.com](http://www.3cosystem.com)

~~~
kami8845
Thanks this is super useful :)

------
alexjeffrey
in my experience, if you can grab a couple of not-too-underpriced gigs on a
freelancing website (my preference is PeoplePerHour as it's less price-war-y)
and can get a few regular clients from that, they'll be more happy to pay a
reasonable fee for a reliable and familiar developer. Bear in mind that there
are a LOT of unreliable and flaky developers on these sites so once you've
proven your value to someone they'll be more likely to pay higher rates to
retain you.

------
stevejohnson
This has been asked a few times over the years. Look over the HN search
results for some ideas.
[https://hn.algolia.com/?q=how+do+you+find+freelance#!/story/...](https://hn.algolia.com/?q=how+do+you+find+freelance#!/story/forever/prefix/0/how%20freelance%20find)

(This is not to say it's not a question worth asking again! I look forward to
today's responses.)

~~~
rgaidot
You can look over the HN search results too:
[http://hnpaper.forge.partlab.io/search?q=how+freelance+find](http://hnpaper.forge.partlab.io/search?q=how+freelance+find)

------
gargarplex
What kind of software do you build? How much do you charge? Are you willing to
work on legacy code bases?

As a hiring manager, I currently have an availability to hire a freelancer. I
just need someone responsible, mature and professional who's willing to roll
up their sleeves and go from "receiving requirements" to shipping and
thoroughly testing.

~~~
weaksauce
What are the details of your project? What language/frameworks are used? how
legacy is legacy? Does the code base have any tests already? Remote work
acceptable? Length of contract? Scope of work?

~~~
gargarplex
Adult content site. PHP5.2 and JavaScript. Un-shelving code from 2012. There
are a few test classes. Remote work is acceptable. Work is ongoing. Work
involves building features, bug fixing and interaction with vendor APIs. Work
requires familiarity with Apache.

~~~
scarecrowbob
Among other things, I have experience maintaining and improving "older" PHP;
contact me at john.reeve.medai@gmail.com if you're looking for a developer.

~~~
gargarplex
Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

    
    
         john.reeve.medai@gmail.com
    

Technical details of permanent failure: The email account that you tried to
reach does not exist. Please try double-checking the recipient's email address
for typos or unnecessary spaces. Learn more at
[http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=6596](http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=6596)

~~~
mod
He typo'd media, looks like.

~~~
scarecrowbob
Yeesh, probably shouldn't work with that guy :(

That's what I get for posting while distracted. Thank you for the correction.

------
icpmacdo
What level of skill did you have in Web Dev before you started freelancing(to
freelancers in general)?

~~~
patio11
Depends on what type of company you're working for and what type of work you
do. In general, the bar for journeyman programmer is "Given a rough
description of a system that the client wants to have, you're capable of
reducing two pages of text and a few sketches into a system which actually
exists in computer code, is successfully deployed into the target
organization, and more-or-less meets their needs as expressed to you." You do
not get tripped up by junior engineer foibles like "I don't know how to deploy
this", "Those requirements are ambiguous", "I need cooperation from X and I'm
not getting it so I have accomplished nothing since being blocked on that",
etc.

------
callmekatootie
[http://www.topcoder.com](http://www.topcoder.com) \- apart from the algorithm
competitions that it is known for, it also has "challenges" where you compete
with other participants and work on building applications.

------
tebeka
One way to network is to go to job interviews. Be open about the fact that
you're mostly interested in contracting and maybe you'll consider joining
after a time (which is true in my case - there's a lot of overhead in
contracting).

------
homakov
Simply have a blog, post cool stuff, and clients find you not the other way
around.

~~~
RemoteWorker
Easy to say that when you can post things like "This is how I hacked Github".

------
godzillabrennus
Talk to small recruitment/staffing companies in your area to drum up some
clients. Best part is they do the collections and handle the sales. You just
set the rate.

------
walshemj
Normally via recruitment agency's they quite often have perm and contract
teams.

------
hellbanner
Are you near any major cities you can attend conferences of major industries?

------
cshipley
A great place to start is posting something on the find a freelancer thread
here on HN every first of the month. I get a fair number of inquiries from
that.

As others have mentioned, meeting people and letting them know what you do.
Most of these will not be direct clients. Rather they will either know of
someone who is seeking help, or will remember your name.

It can take some time to get your name out and get the ball rolling. When I
started up again, it took about two months. When you talk to someone, you
never know how long it will take to turn into something. I have had
conversations with clients that took 6 months to come to fruition. Others in
just a week. The moral of that story is to always be looking, not just when
you need work. Get in the habit of always saying yes, and then just manage
your availability.

There is a spectrum of the kind of work you can do. I don't mean which
language/platform. I mean straight staff augmentation to managing projects. It
is easier to find the staff augmentation gigs. These are easier since someone
will just be telling you what to work on, and you do it. You will make less
for these and this sort of work doesn't scale as well. I would only ever do
this for straight a straight hourly rate.

Managing projects doesn't mean you will (necessarily) be managing people, just
managing the project. With this, someone needs something built, but may not
know how. It requires an additional skill set of knowing a bit of sales,
knowing how to set/re-set expectations and how to negotiate. You can get a
much higher rate for this, and it is possible to scale this a bit better
because you can sub out some of the work.

Another thing you will run into very quickly is how to structure the
relationship. There are people out there who are incompetent and others who
are nefarious. It is important to know how to protect yourself legally and
practically for both. For the legal aspect, find a local attorney who can look
over contracts and help you craft a reusable template. __Always __have an
attorney look over contracts before you sign. Most of the time someone gives
you a contract to sign, it will be written to be in their best interests.
Other times, they will just be poorly written.

For the practical aspect, understand there is a difference between working
with someone in-state, out-of-state and out of country. You have the most
legal recourse with someone in-state. If they are out-of-state, you may have
to go there to pursue any legal action. (which is a massive pain) If they are
out of country you may not have any legal recourse. So you will want to
structure the business relationship to protect yourself, which might be as
simple as half of the estimate up-front. The remainder on completion, and they
get no code until it is complete.

A lot of times I structure it by milestone or iteration, with time limits,
requiring permission to continue, but all billed hourly. Each iteration or
milestone delivers something tangible. They get code on payment. This way I
get paid for the work I do, and they won't get unexpected costs and they
always have a pretty good idea where things are. Risk is mitigated in both
directions. At any point, they can decide to pull the plug and they still have
something for what they've paid so far.

It is not uncommon for potential clients to ask for fixed-bids. My advice is
to steer away from them. They require you to be able to make good estimates
then inflate them to cover your risk. That risk is all on you. They also
require you to have tight definitions and manage scope changes mercilessly. If
you don't, then you eat it. That said, some people like them because they're
really easy.

Some other pieces of advice:

* You're not dedicated to a particular project until either they've given you a deposit, or something is set up legally so that if you start working, you'll get paid.

* Generally ask for a deposit from new clients.

* It is ok to drop bad clients. Sometimes they're not worth the trouble.

* Think about it in terms of collecting/building long term relationships rather than "work". Once you get an established base of good clients, the work will tend to come to you.

* Remember, you're not their friend and not their employee. You are in it because it is a business relationship that has mutual benefit.

* Keep good records of time, expenses and income.

Email me at curtis [at] saltydogtechnology [dot] com if you have more
questions. What sort of work are you looking for?

~~~
mackram
curtis makes some excellent points about the whole concept of freelancing and
how to make real long term work by bringing real value to your customers.
These will generally not argue on price since they understand and see the
value that the price is getting them (either increased income or decrease
cost). With that said, I personally would not think recommend the paid hourly
work even with the structure of milestones. I have experimented with both
hourly and fixed bid (as well as spent a couple of years working in business
to understand their view point) and here is what I have found out from my own
experiences (which should not be generalized of course):

* sometimes (read quite often in my experience) a high value solution to a client takes you a very little amount of time if you bill hourly you sell yourself short against the only measure that matters for your clients and that is how much value did this project bring me

* Hourly billing tends to make clients cut projects before the actual objective of the project is achieved so that they can save cost and what this means to you is that for this client (and anyone they talk to) the project was a- a failure and b- not completed by you

* Hourly billing allows you to choose to be lazy. What this means is that you will not take the time to assess the project and its scope because heck your are being paid by the hour and if you are lazy you get in trouble

* Clients need to assess risk to reward ratio of any project they take (just like you should) an open ended project is not a good thing for them. Without a cost it is difficult to assess whether a project ROI is useful.

Now with the above said there are times when billing by the hour is the only
course of action. In my experience these are as follows: * Old clients that
have learned that you bring high value who want to grow their business
strategically and want you to add iterations to them. These you can bill by
the hour because there will be alot of time set aside discussing strategy and
building for future and changing things. The key here is that they know you
are worth it. * New clients where are referred to you who do not know what
they want. This is when a client can not tell you really why they want the
project or what is its success metric. I usually stay clear of this unless I
am sold on what the vision is since it is difficult to define success.

Warning however must be said you have to stand your ground when it comes to
fixed bids scope. You can change scope a bit if a new change takes out an old
one but you have to be firm. In my experience a fixed bid project without a
defined metric of success is doomed to cost you more then its worth.

~~~
cshipley
Thanks for your reply. I hear what you're saying about hourly, and completely
agree with your points -- if it is hourly without structure.

The difference is I treat each milestone/iteration as a small project,
requiring assesment, scoping and client buy-off (A change order to the
contract, along with an estimate). If they want time limits before continuing
past x number hours, I'm fine with that too.

I see the advantages are:

* Lower risk to me because the price is not fixed

* Lower customer risk because they see progress and can adjust as the project unfolds.

* Lower cost to them -- they don't pay extra to cover my risk.

* The client has more control since they can make course corrections along the way.

* Regular client touch-points are built in - they get more visibility, I can adjust expectations

* Scope changes just mean more billable hours

The feedback I've gotten is they like the flexibility, and are often more
willing to say yes because of reduced risk.

------
cweagans
Gun.io is pretty good, IMO. I'd stay away from odesk and elance.

~~~
tejay
Much love :)

~~~
swissRF
I tried atleast 10 times via Gun.io but was unable to find any work through
it. I might not be a suitable for the job but I never received any update on
my submission. I also tried sending emails to Gun.io team but got no response
from them

~~~
tejay
really really sorry about that - can you email me at teja@gun.io when you get
a chance?

~~~
swissRF
Thanks. Just sent you an email.

------
ryanckulp
I might be able to hire you. Email me your stack, u/n @ gmail.

------
hashtag
Check your local contracting agencies

------
dsfreed
check out [http://pickcrew.com](http://pickcrew.com)

------
aledalgrande
Craigslist (Yes!)

------
cuckol333
MY STRATEGY works somewhat? but is old and dusty. old and dusty warning and
YMWV - mileage will vary.

-1.) It has nothing to do with your willpower or even your skillsets.

0.) the key strategy is rule out - some big companies, even stingy and the
case of CIO chef info officer is clueless - AVOID THEM like the plague. U get
a great job. affter change of bosses - once every 9 months for 3 years; you
get 'fired' and put on the blacklist.

IT IS A DEAD END.

1.) it's all about MBA work, screening and positioning. get to know the
rankings of the S&P 500 rank listing well. this is ONLY a template and guide.
oh by the way, over 51 + 7 years of experience; various fields, and some odd
experiences.

4.) before I get to the GOOD SEXY FREE MILLIONAIRE STUFF, figure out how to
crash the local conferences/convensions. Yes, pay off the low part time work
who moved goods. I am a substitute.

get the business card. say NADADADA! research the hell out of them. then it is
mano a mano. eyeball to eyeball. i know u need this. this is what your
competitors know here a ANONYMOUS QUOTE.

oh, no i am not a journalist. media, lawyer, stranger, etc etc. U R DOING THEM
A FAVOR.

5.) ask reasonable questions. no i dont need the money but i really love
programming / s?redacted? x, etc etc

6.) remember the obscure system engineer who does unix or the assoc vp does
not want a referral free. Grass is always greener on the other side.

7.) it's just me but five dimensional programming code on an origama (YES I AM
ASIAN) ORIGAMA ball /can be be fun. and a nice prop. wave it around like a big
CIGAR.

8.) most of the workplace have the 'hacks'; unix engineers like i former
trying to become a database engineer consult etc. cold mail and cold call - is
fine, but the wall street method rule applies - 250 dials a day. 4 days a wekk
on various times. wt ???? 250??? is a lot. note - this is dials and yes i have
done freelance 'boiler room similar looking like work' \- i am not a stock
broker film db BOILER ROOM !! yeahhhh baaaabbyy

9.) the MEAT the millionaire the sexy the GOOD STUFF. please delete this
comment. or the censors may take it out. ok with me.

here it is...... the Rotary Club works on a non-compete, diversified P2P
network. ROTARY CLUB. non-compete since only one real estate agent in any one
circle.

THE SCENARIO: my good 'friend' and associate REAL ESTATE AGENT or fill in
blank spends a lot of time in the WOMAN CLUB. So, the wife of the VP of the
data center mentions how ASTOUNDING is this person.

the VP, is a man married and will give you at least a courtesy interview.
Provide value, turn down 20% of the jobs.. shadddde the truth???? but

i have read at least 20 of the top books. compiled linux kernel,blah blah
learn a new language Haskell with succky books so the problems are NEVER
technical or delivery.

it has only to do with some clueless CIOsss who barely passed certification
Micosoft exams. sorry, no person offense meant. IT HAS ONLY at least in USA,
to do with some system engineer who WANTS U DESPERATELY but has a outsource
contract with a guy who cannot understand code comments in ENGLISH or deal
with HR where talent TALENT talent is a priority.

and of course, U are DOOMED. sorry to say. the extra income and part time jobs
/ health benefits / DESTRUCTION OF THE USA MIDDLE CLASS continues!

PS. full time -?? been there, done tthat kinda. i always allocate at least 10%
to make boss look good; frills and bells; make the code look pretty and
beautiful; and othher WORTHLESS GARBAGE. this is called the hidden tax.

also, 20% for learning and at least finding HOLES IN THE COMPANY SOFTWARE.
logic flaws, security flaws, bad code, bad process, bad procedures, bad SQL,
bad db architecture,

warninggg! this can be dangerous. doing the job of the cluelesss CIO chief
inof officer can lead to BLACKLIST.

does tthzyat help?

