
Apple’s expected Mac event on October 27 is official - chrisamanse
https://9to5mac.com/2016/10/19/apple-october-event-official/
======
Stratoscope
If an OLED panel replaces the function keys, that ruins it for me. I mostly
run Windows on my late-2013 15" MBPR, and I use the function keys _all the
time_. Especially for debugging. F5, F9, F10, F11 are burned into my brain.

I used to be a huge ThinkPad fan, but their wilderness years of bad displays
and constant keyboard rearrangement turned me off, so I thought I'd try using
my MBPR for Windows work instead. Turns out to be a very nice Windows machine,
with the bonus of being able to boot into macOS too. (I can also run Windows
under Parallels in macOS and that works pretty well, but running Windows
native in a Boot Camp partition is more responsive.)

The only serious function key issue is the lack of the little gaps between
F4-F5 and F8-F9. If you don't use the function keys much, you'd be surprised
how important those gaps are for a touch typist. Lenovo even ditched the gaps
for a while (and they had their own misguided experiment with a touch panel in
the second gen X1 Carbon), but now the gaps are back - and they finally have
good displays again.

ThinkPads also have the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys instead of the crazy contorted
Fn+arrow combinations you have to use on a Mac keyboard.

I've gotten pretty used to these Mac keyboard issues by now, but losing the
function keys? That's a bit much. Looks like my next Windows machine will be
another ThinkPad.

~~~
toyg
_> I mostly run Windows on my late-2013 15" MBPR_

It's safe to say you're not really Apple's target market :)

Personally, I won't believe this OLED thingie until I actually see it with my
own eyes, but with the right support in the OS APIs, might turn out to be a
shot in the arm for the laptop concept. Imagine replacing the whole keyboard
with an ipad-like touchscreen? Sure, abhorrent for a programmer, but quite
exciting for everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the actual
long-term endgame, for which an OLED strip is just a trial balloon.

~~~
Stratoscope
Sorry you got downvoted. FWIW, I upvoted your comment - I pretty much always
upvote replies to my comments, whether I agree or not, just to thank people
for engaging in a conversation with me. The only exception is when someone is
rude or nasty, which you certainly weren't. :-)

That said, I'm not sure I agree. It's not just programmers who benefit from
physical keyboards, but everyone who types. And that's a lot of people. I've
tried typing on an iPad and an Android tablet, and it's pretty awkward
compared with a physical keyboard.

OTOH, a friend has a touchscreen ThinkPad, and while she is a touch typist,
she uses the touchscreen _all the time_. It makes me a little crazy to see her
tapping the screen to do things that would be much easier with the TrackPoint
or touchpad and buttons, but I just bite my tongue and let her have at it. :-)

------
dancek
Ars Technica has a summary of what is expected:
[http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/report-new-macs-
still-c...](http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/report-new-macs-still-coming-
this-month-11-inch-air-could-go-away/)

 _tl;dr_ USB Type-C, Thunderbolt 3

~~~
rch
So, new macs = different plugs. Awesome.

~~~
chris_7
Taking away MagSafe will be very unfortunate. MagSafe is one of the best
things about Macs.

~~~
skrause
Personally I'm glad to see MagSafe go away if that means I can use charging
ports on either sides of the laptop. Sitting on the right side of the bed with
the charger connected is a huge hassle when you only have a charging port on
the left side.

The cables of Apple's MagSafe charger are also quite crappy, they tend to fray
after 2-3 years of use. I hope that gets better with USB-C and if not at least
you'll have better third-party chargers available.

~~~
jshevek
Yes, this is something that I absolutely love about the Chromebook Pixel.
Having two fully functional type c ports on both the left and right side of
the laptop offers an unexpectedly amazing degree of convenience. The ability
to daisy-chain several devices for charging is pretty cool as well. I'm never
going back to a laptop that doesn't offer charging ports on both sides of the
computer.

------
Randgalt
I just hope we get 32G of RAM on the MBP. It's desperately needed.

~~~
Alupis
I doubt it. Very few people have a legitimate need for 32 GB of RAM in any
device, let alone a laptop.

Apple doesn't really build their hardware so that it's "developer-oriented",
so it's unlikely you'll see 32 GB of RAM anytime soon. Perhaps 8, 12 or 16 GB.

~~~
awalton
As a VMware developer, hehehe, you're funny.

As a user of a modern web browser, yeah, 8GB by default isn't going to cut it
anymore. Browsers leak like sieves and routinely I have to kill them once they
hit 10+GB.

32GB is not even outlandish. It's a simple upgrade. The memory controllers
support it. Apple can charge a fortune for it since it's "memory down" instead
of DIMMs. Why wouldn't they do it?

~~~
Alupis
> As a VMware developer, hehehe, you're funny.

You seemingly missed my comment about Apple machines not being developer-
oriented. A developer isn't Apple's target user.

> As a user of a modern web browser, yeah, 8GB by default isn't going to cut
> it anymore

You're clearly exaggerating this by quite a bit. Everyone knows modern
browsers consume more RAM than ever before, but 8 GB's is extreme.

(Anecdotally, I tend to have hundreds of tabs open across multiple windows for
weeks-on-end, and never have hit 8 GB's consumed by Chrome or Firefox, usually
in the 1-3 GB range, and that's when I start to get concerned some tab has a
broken script running).

> 32GB is not even outlandish. It's a simple upgrade.

Not really. If maybe 10% of their customers will use it, why include it?
Especially right now when Apple seem to be in this kick of removing everything
except exactly what they anticipate most of their users need.

> Apple can charge a fortune for it since it's "memory down" instead of DIMMs

I assume you're referencing the chips being soldered onto the mobo instead of
being removable DIMM's - Adding way more RAM than necessary today may in fact
preclude "upgrade" revenues later when Apple releases a line-up refresh in a
few year's time (when average Joe might actually need 32 GB on his laptop).

> Why wouldn't they do it?

Because 32 GB is overkill in 2016 for majority of their customers. "Upgrading"
to 32 GB today prevents them from doing so in the future in another line-up
refresh (when 32 GB might be more reasonable for the average Mac purchaser).

~~~
kylec

        You seemingly missed my comment about Apple machines not being
        developer-oriented. A developer isn't Apple's target user.
    

Why not? A MacBook Pro is standard issue for developers at most companies, and
there are probably more developers buying Macs than designers, photographers,
or video editors. Also, Apple's flagship products, the iPhone and iPad,
require a Mac to develop for, so selling a computer that's good for software
development is also an investment in the future of those platforms.

~~~
Alupis
> so selling a computer that's good for software development is also an
> investment in the future of those platforms

I'm at a loss as-to why folks still don't "get it" that Apple has never been
friendly to their developers. They still don't see developers as their primary
target, evidenced by all of the things they've done lately to OSX/macOS, the
until-recent ban of virtualizing OSX/macOS, non-replaceable hardware
components, etc.

> Also, Apple's flagship products, the iPhone and iPad, require a Mac to
> develop for

That's not a technical limitation - that's a planned sales channel limitation.
Forcefully compelled to purchase their hardware every few years. It's very
smart, from a sales perspective, but has nothing to do with Apple favoring
developers (actually, one could strongly argue the opposite simply due to this
fact).

> A MacBook Pro is standard issue for developers at most companies

Just because this occurs doesn't mean Apple thinks developers are their
primary target for their hardware.

It's likely safe to say that no one on HN is in the target demographic for
Apple hardware. We aren't "normal" users, and we must admit it. Calls for
developer-oriented gear isn't going to come to fruition simply by wishing it.

I agree, it would be nice if they did view developers as being an important
demographic, but sadly, there is more evidence to the contrary.

> Why not?

That seems to be a good question for Mr. Cook and gang.

------
squarf
squarf's predictions

>mac mini with A10 CPU

>MacBook air with the same guts as arm mini

>MacBook pros that are more powerful but not more powerfuller enough to
satiate tech bloggers

>RIP in peace Mac Pro tower

>a Siri box for your house

~~~
marricks
I'm not sure how seriously to take your predictions, but although Apple is
making some fast and efficient processors these days I think seeing it cross
over to their lap/desktop line ups is pretty far out in the future because of
software reasons.

It's not like a program made for amd64 processor could just run on an ARM one,
so most programs people know and love just wont work. Also, emulating 64/32
bit is a pain and very slow for ARM.

It seems quite possible that Apple is pushing iPad pro for work to get
"desktop" programs working well on the chip, but it seems a bit of a ways offs
to have those power efficient A chips anywhere outside of mobile...

~~~
mccada
Actually I think their long term plan will be to switch to ARM processors.
Probably not just yet though. They have already made their software compile to
platform independent code (I may have the terminology wrong, I'm not super
familiar with it), which means all current software should be able to run on
ARM. You can check out some more in-depth discussion about this topic here
[https://www.macobserver.com/columns-opinions/particle-
debris...](https://www.macobserver.com/columns-opinions/particle-
debris/evidence-mounting-apple-will-convert-macs-arm-cpus/)

------
clhodapp
Perhaps they could release a usb c charging cable with a magnetic disconnect
in the cable itself (sort of like a cable with a smaller-magsafe-to-usb-c
dongle built into it). No reason to suspect they _will_ do this but it should
be technically feasible and would allow a migration to USB C without losing
all of the benefits of magnetic disconnection.

~~~
toyg
It's on sale already: [https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-
usb-c-po...](https://griffintechnology.com/us/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-
cable)

------
weinzierl
> The new MacBook Pro is said to include a redesigned, thinner body with a
> flatter MacBook-style keyboard, an OLED touch panel that replaces the
> physical function keys at the top of the keyboard, and Touch ID support.

> It is expected to do away with the USB-A port, HDMI port, and SD card slot,
> featuring just four USB-C ports based on part leaks, and it is said to
> include support for USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3.

The four USB-C port configuration will be interesting. As far as I can tell
the rumor stems from leaked housing shots (maybe prototypes) [1] which show
four slots, two on each side.

The Wikipedia page about Thunderbolt[2] says:

> Intel offers three versions of the controller:

> \- one "DP" version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide two Thunderbolt
> 3 ports (DSL6540)

>\- one "SP" version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide one Thunderbolt 3
port (DSL6340)

>\- an "LP" (Low Power) version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×2 link to provide one
Thunderbolt 3 port (JHL6240).

This means either not all USB-C ports will be Thunderbolt 3 ports or the
machines will have to have two DSL6540's on board. I don't know the cost of
this chips but I think this could be expensive. On the other hand: same
connector with different capabilities? - not Apple's style.

[1] [https://www.idropnews.com/2016/06/01/photos-of-new-
macbook-p...](https://www.idropnews.com/2016/06/01/photos-of-new-macbook-pro-
with-oled-touch-bar-leak-magsafe-sadly-confirmed-absent/)

[2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)#Thunde...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_\(interface\)#Thunderbolt_3)

~~~
awalton
DSL6540s are $10 in 1000 quantity if you're not Apple. If you're Apple or
another OEM integrator, you can probably get Intel to give you a pretty
healthy shave off that even. $15-20 bucks to make all four ports Thunderbolt
is nothing to Apple's bottom line, especially when they can (and probably
will) just tack on another $100 to the price to cover it.

This is Apple hardware - even if it's not the best, most advanced hardware out
there, it will _still_ fly off the shelves because of the
fans/fanboys/startups.

------
izacus
_sigh_ Apple, can we have at least one USB-A port left on the Pro machines?
Please? So we can plug in bunch of useful devices and TheyJustWork(tm)? It's
sad enough that quarter of talks I visit start with "Does anyone have their
Mac video dongle with them? Anyone? ... " shtick.

~~~
ddorian43
Vote with your $. According to $, they're doing pretty great.

~~~
izacus
So how do I vote with my $ when I need a OSX machine for work with good CPU
performance?

~~~
ddorian43
You don't NEED an OSX machine (unless you work on stuff that need OSX, in that
case probably is your fault). It's like consoles, they are bad for everyone
except the console-makers. Don't get yourself locked homie.

------
russell_h
The new Macbook Pro is widely rumored to have a fingerprint sensor.

I haven't seen anybody exploring how this will be implemented though: is Apple
likely to borrow the secure enclave or other tech they use in the iPhone?

~~~
bootload
_" The new Macbook Pro is widely rumored to have a fingerprint sensor."_

Wouldn't be happy with this carrying an mbp around with instant LEO access ~
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fingerprints+iphone+fbi](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fingerprints+iphone+fbi)

~~~
russell_h
Sure, but the reason I ask about the implementation is that I'm not
particularly interested in the actual fingerprint reader (which I assume I'll
be able to disable).

If Apple starts shipping a Secure Enclave or some kind of hardware-backed
crypto store it will enable a bunch of interesting use cases that are
decoupled from the fingerprint reader itself.

For example it might be possible to build tooling allowing an AWS signing key
to be stored in-hardware where it can't be scraped by malware on a developer's
laptop. Same for SSH keys. And once you have those primitives you can build
whole new protocols on top (eg,
[https://blog.trailofbits.com/2016/02/09/tidas-a-new-
service-...](https://blog.trailofbits.com/2016/02/09/tidas-a-new-service-for-
building-password-less-apps/)).

------
nwrk
Wish the upgrades will be like 2016 specs and not year behind. (smoke)

------
marze
Finally the switch to ARM?! The invite suggests!

~~~
scarlac
How does it suggest a switch to ARM? I'm not seeing any indications to suggest
such a claim.

~~~
marze
And the orange smoke, suggesting burning bridges.

~~~
marze
Or Note 7 phones burning, obviously

------
Keyframe
A new Air finally? That will be the day!

~~~
spyspy
I imagine the Airs being eaten by the new MacBook.

~~~
rtpg
Just an anecdote but none of the college kids I see get a MacBook , but still
opt for the Air, or pay the $100 more to get a pro. USB ports and all that.

~~~
scarlac
I see this as well. Students particularly. The Air got popular when the price
dropped. Initially, everyone also criticized it for being too expensive and
underpowered. Look at this thread and tell me it doesn't sound like they're
talking about the new Macbook: [http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-is-
the-macbook-air-s...](http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-is-the-macbook-
air-so-expensive.856233/)

My speculation: No upgrade for the Air but I think they'll announce a new
lower price for the new Macbook as well as somewhat upgraded internals. They
may lower the Air price a bit and keep it around or perhaps kill it outright.
Everything about the Macbook seems like it's made to replace the Air apart
from the price.

~~~
TazeTSchnitzel
I don't think Apple can drop the Air until the MacBook is at the same price
point.

