
U.S. Stockpiled 63M Now-Useless Doses of Hydroxychloroquine - justin66
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=238783
======
birdyrooster
The title belies the truth that those doses of hydroxychloroquine were and are
still not useless. It is used to treat Lupus and other conditions. The
stockpiling caused prices at one point to nearly double and created shortage
for people with disabilities. This needs to be considered beyond the obvious
material waste. How many people need to be hurt before accountability is
finally laid upon the leadership of this nation?

Edit:
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/23/hydroxychloro...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/05/23/hydroxychloroquine-
short-supply-lupus-patients-who-need/5245542002/)

~~~
mlyle
Huge amounts of the hydroxychloroquine debacle were dubious-- public
statements about efficacy, broken early trials, etc.

But: in March, it was one of very few leads on a treatment. Building some
degree of a strategic stockpile and ensuring that manufacturing was increased
made sense, even if it was a long shot. It's unfortunate that this had a
negative effect upon people, but if there had been efficacy having that
stockpile would have been extremely beneficial.

~~~
osrec
Did they stockpile remdesivir in the same quantities, given its actual
efficacy?

~~~
pnutjam
Did they stockpile PPE? It's proven effective for this pandemic and many other
situations; however the feds let the stockpile dwindle for no good reason.

~~~
thu2111
I thought the jury was still out on masks at least. The WHO keeps changing its
mind about them, as do other governments.

~~~
pnutjam
It's not, nobody is changing their mind. There were some efforts to reserve
masks for front line medical workers. That muddied the issue, but masks
protect you from spreading a sickness you may now know you have and provide a
minimal amount of protection from catching covid-19.

~~~
thu2111
Nobody is changing their mind? That's obviously nonsense. There have been so
many reversals it made the news.

[https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/who-reverses-position-on-
face-...](https://nypost.com/2020/06/06/who-reverses-position-on-face-masks-
as-coronavirus-cases-climb/)

Different authorities can't even agree:

[https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offer-conflicting-
advice-m...](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offer-conflicting-advice-masks-
expert-tells-us/story?id=70958380)

The mask situation is absurd, one more failure on top of so many others for
the global health establishment.

~~~
pnutjam
Wrong! [https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/23/anthony-
fauci-m...](https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/23/anthony-fauci-masks-
question-vpx.cnn)

The masks were alway recommended to slow transmission.

~~~
thu2111
By _whom_ do you think they were always recommended? Because that absolutely
hasn't been true for the WHO and CDC, as the links I already gave you show.
The WHO has changed its position on masks, and has been in conflict with the
CDC on the same topic.

That video you linked to doesn't in any way disagree with anything I've said,
nor rebut the point. In fact it supports it. It's just a video of Anthony
Fauci talking about why he changed his position on masks: without admitting to
it directly, he 'explains' that he wanted to ensure medical workers had access
to them. But he is on record as having recommended against masks in the past.
Here's Snopes saying so:

[https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-masks-no-longer-
need...](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fauci-masks-no-longer-needed/)

 _In the March 2020 clip, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people
SHOULD NOT BE walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare
providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”_ (my caps)

[https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-
being/prevention-c...](https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-
being/prevention-cures/502890-fauci-why-the-public-wasnt-told-to-wear-masks)

 _He also acknowledged that masks were initially NOT RECOMMENDED to the
general public so that first responders wouldn’t feel the strain of a shortage
of PPE._ (my caps)

Now many countries have introduced face mask requirements (which is dumb, but
clearly a change of position).

Not only has mask advice changed but it's changed for dumb reasons: there's no
scientific evidence masks work to stop SARS-CoV-2 transmission, especially not
the cloth masks being actually deployed. This article investigates what's
really known about this tactic:

[https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/06/coronavirus-fact-check-6...](https://off-
guardian.org/2020/06/06/coronavirus-fact-check-6-does-wearing-a-mask-do-
anything/)

------
chrisco255
Note, there are still 134 active clinical trials to study the effects of HCQ
(+ other supplements) on Covid-19:
[https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Hydroxychlor...](https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=Hydroxychloroquine+covid-19&term=&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=)

A group of physicians is suing the FDA for limiting access to drug:
[https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/doctors-fda-
acces...](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/doctors-fda-access-drug-
hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-coronavirus-12806194)

~~~
aaronbrethorst
_The AAPS, a non-profit organisation based in Tucson, Arizona, has a "few
thousand" members, according to executive director Jane Orient. It opposes
mandatory vaccination, previously waged a campaign against healthcare reforms
introduced by former President Barack Obama, and has been pushing back against
state restrictions on use of hydroxychloroquine as a preventive therapy for
the coronavirus._

The organization's general counsel is Andrew Schlafly, the son of Phyllis
Schlafly, who is pretty well-summed-up by these quotes:
[https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/06/politics/phyllis-schlafly-
quo...](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/06/politics/phyllis-schlafly-
quotes/index.html)

~~~
vernie
Okay?

------
nnx
Useless for what? That HCQ is useless for severe cases where patient require
artificial ventilation is nothing new, it has been highlighted by scientific
HCQ proponents from the beginning (eg. see Pr Raoult studies, Spain
prophylaxis trial for medical staff, ...).

Severe cases are not overwhelmed by the virus but by their own immune system
response... in fact there is a lower viral load during the lethal phase of the
disease.

Where HCQ might be useful is for prophylaxis or in early phase of the disease
to quickly reduce viral load (therefore infectivity). In this setting, plenty
studies are still ongoing and positive results are visible in multiple afaik.

~~~
tim333
It's interesting in Raoult's results that they treated 3320 patients with 18
deaths or about 0.5% and you can say ok thats quite low but maybe they were
young and healthy. However if you look at the age of the deaths there zero
deaths under age 60 and one under 70. It seems unlikely for that to happen if
the treatment did nothing. Apparently without treatment deaths under 60 are
something like 20% of the total usually. (him talking about it in French
[https://youtu.be/Sc1-JBX2y70?t=268](https://youtu.be/Sc1-JBX2y70?t=268))

I can't help but feel when historians look back on this that they will figure
there were unnecessary deaths due to political biases.

------
cgb223
It’s better to have a stockpile of things that might work than to not have a
stockpile of something if it’s revealed to work and suddenly there’s a
scramble for that resource.

Think PPE, potential treatments, Ventilators

~~~
digsy
PPE, potential treatments, Ventilators have all been proven to work for their
intended purposes. Thats why we stockpile them.

Stockpiling something in the hopes that it might help is a waste of resources.

~~~
ikerdanzel
Widely known and used in Eastern Asia side. You need to have friends in
medical fields from that region to know. The western side is basically
disinformation itself because of democratic-republican tussle during current
year election agenda. Western countries mortality are significant higher in
those countries choosing to not use it. I suggest you contact any of your
friends working in medical fields working in Eastern Asian side to know a
clearer picture.

------
throwawaysea
Are they actually useless? I recall there was substantial controversy around
studies not specifically pairing Hydroxychloroquine along with Zinc, which is
needed for it to be effective. I think
[https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v...](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1)
was one of the few studies that specifically incorporated zinc. Does anyone
know where that line of scientific study ended up?

~~~
pjc50
Nobody ever convincingly explained how it was supposed to act? And whether it
would be effective on other sorts of coronavirus?

~~~
walterbell
Here are studies of HCQ + zinc success for _early_ treatment,
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O6Cls-
Oz2ZAgJuyDbnICEGjM...](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O6Cls-
Oz2ZAgJuyDbnICEGjMvQPEyM-aaXARUomR9Ww)

~~~
phkahler
If I get Covid19 I plan to request that treatment. I'll doctor shop if need
be. OTOH I think I already had it back in early March, but nobody really wants
to test for it.

~~~
walterbell
It's also been used as a prophylactic by healthcare workers. Half-life in body
is weeks.

------
pcvarmint
Hydroxychloroquine can prevent cytokine cascade, which fills the lungs and can
cause pneumonia.

It should be doctor and patient's choice whether to use it.

The Lancet was forced to retract an article critical of hydroxychloroquine,
dubbed "LancetGate". [1] [2] [3]

[1] [https://audioboom.com/posts/7605833-lancetgate-
illustrates-s...](https://audioboom.com/posts/7605833-lancetgate-illustrates-
science-distorted-by-anti-trump-partisanship-what-is-to-be-done-richar)

[2] [https://www.hoover.org/research/lancets-covid-
fiasco](https://www.hoover.org/research/lancets-covid-fiasco)

[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhhG61Lx2E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhhG61Lx2E)

------
zaroth
The US is doing something similar with vaccine candidates. Kickstarting
massive production before the trials complete so that _if_ it works the doses
are ready to go.

BARDA is awarding grants like $483 million to Moderna to start manufacturing
even if the vaccine is never approved.

It may be totally appropriate for the government to make multi-billion dollar
speculative investments in therapies that could help us more quickly restart
the economy, the closing of which is costing trillions of dollars.

These investments, like all central planning approaches, will distort the free
market and likely cause a misallocation of resources. For example more work on
COVID therapies at the expense of cancer therapies which could ultimately lead
to more deaths overall. But the cost of the shutdown dwarfs all of that, so
basically anything that could expedite full reopening is worth the risk.

When disaster preparedness pays off everyone feels great. When disaster
preparedness that doesn’t pay off is ridiculed as wasted investment, we get
situations like we had with the National Stockpile, and what happened in CA
with their disbanded disaster response field hospitals.

We need to accept the government wasting money in disaster preparedness if we
want to ever actually be prepared. Otherwise it’s like complaining about the
insurance premium because the house _didn’t_ burn down.

~~~
refurb
_We need to accept the government wasting money in disaster preparedness if we
want to ever actually be prepared._

Yup!

I hear people ask "Why weren't we ready for Covid?". Then in the next breath
ask "Why are we stockpiling a drug that doesn't work for Covid?".

~~~
pstuart
> I hear people ask "Why weren't we ready for Covid?". Then in the next breath
> ask "Why are we stockpiling a drug that doesn't work for Covid?".

It doesn't work that way.

~~~
refurb
Sure it does. If you want to prepared for an epidemic, you have to accept that
you’re going to waste money.

And at any rate, I know the gov’t has deals with pharma companies. They’ll
often swap expired product so the stockpile stays current.

~~~
pstuart
You put forth:

Why weren't we ready? Why did we waste money?

Both of those questions should be asked directly of the current
administration, don't you think?

------
tgafpc2
Not useless at all. Still given off label under the supervision of a doctor.
Still studies going on. The big 'study' was retracted. Could still be part of
several treatment plans.

------
Mizza
I find it disgusting how politicized this particular drug became. I think
people really decided that it was either useless or miraculous simply because
of Trump's excitment about it. There was a period of time in March when this
was an early leading candidate for treatment and the government acted
proactively. I don't think this was a bad decision, even if it was incorrect
in hindsight.

~~~
ciarannolan
It highlights the importance of good leadership, which in this case does not
happen to include going on TV and blabbering about drugs you know nothing
about.

If the president was able to keep his mouth shut these HQ studies could have
continued uninterrupted and the conversation around HQ wouldn't be such a
political mess.

~~~
cm2187
In other words it is not the fault of the people who are trying to kill a
molecule just because they don’t like Trump?

~~~
ciarannolan
>>If the president was able to keep his mouth shut these HQ studies could have
continued uninterrupted and the conversation around HQ wouldn't be such a
political mess.

~~~
thu2111
What they're saying is, the studies could have continued uninterrupted anyway.
It doesn't actually matter what Trump thinks or says, he doesn't control
individual studies.

On the other hand, people who hate Trump like the editor of the Lancet
actually _did_ manage to interrupt studies. After publishing the now retracted
"HCQ is dangerous" paper, lots of studies were suspended worldwide.

~~~
ciarannolan
>It doesn't actually matter what Trump thinks or says [...]

Yes it does. The president went on TV and blabbered about things he knows
nothing about and turned HQ into a political issue.

His inability to shut up and listen to public health experts, his need to
stroke his ego and insert himself into every situation, makes the president
the fons et origo, the problem in the first place.

Remember when "the buck" stopped with the president? When the president was a
respectable, thoughtful person? When the president wouldn't do something as
foolish and irresponsible as telling Americans to try a drug he heard about on
cable news?

He could have done one thing to improve America's response to Covid-19: shut
up and listen to experts. But there's something innate in this president, his
comically obvious case of narcissistic personality disorder, that doesn't let
him do that.

------
gsibble
We're also making hundreds of millions of doses of vaccines that may not work
just like HCQ. Is that dumb? I certainly don't think so. It's a fast moving
situation and if something MAY show promise, it makes sense to obtain a ton of
it.

Stop trying to make an issue out of nothing.

------
olliej
its useful for the people who needed it before their access to it was
drastically limited by hoarding.

~~~
thrill
Hoarding? It is available in the US by prescription only. The only hoarding
that could occur is by the people best qualified to control its use - medical
professionals. The government screwed that up too by trying to prevent them
from prescribing the medication unless the government approved. The artificial
shortage of this drug came from clueless politicians and media promoting its
unproven effectiveness causing an unnecessary spike in _demand_.

~~~
olliej
and the government started consuming supplies, and doctors started prescribing
it in bulk for friends and family who had no need.

Meanwhile people who did actually need it because, you know, actual reasons,
suddenly found that there was none available anywhere.

So large groups of people were buying up the supply, without any actual need
for themselves. That's hoarding. It's even worse though, because they can't
return those drugs, so yay!

------
CyanLite2
Something good could still come out of this. The gov't should "donate" these
doses to millions of lupus and RA patients. But nah, that'd be considered
socialism.... /s

~~~
JKCalhoun
I wonder if the doses have expiration dates. I assume so. Hopefully dumpsters
won't be full of expired HCq....

------
vmception
Has anybody else pivoted to supplying these dysfunctional governments with
this and other crap?

It really feels like I've been playing Death Stranding for the past few months

~~~
ars
Dysfunction government is nothing new, spent billions between 2006 and 2014
stockpiling Tamiflu which doesn't even do anything:
[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-roche-hldg-novartis-
searc...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-roche-hldg-novartis-
search/stockpiles-of-roche-tamiflu-drug-are-waste-of-money-review-finds-
idUSBREA390EJ20140410)

