
Reddit: IAmA grad student who has tried nearly every "study"/"smart" drug - andrewljohnson
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/b4duo/iama_grad_student_who_has_tried_nearly_every/
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AngryParsley
It is a bit weird that doctors are only supposed to prescribe these drugs for
medical conditions and not enhancement. If the effects are beneficial and the
drug is safe, why not allow healthy people to take it?

Of course, it's not hard to get a prescription if you want one. I just wish
everyone didn't have to play this game of off-label prescriptions and lying to
doctors.

Edit: Disclaimer: I take modafinil and I find it very useful.

~~~
dsplittgerber
Because our society has not debated the consequences of cognitive enhancement,
and we are worse off for it. There are moral arguments for and against
enhancement, but the way it currently is prohibited, yet tolerated (nearly
everyone who really wants to can game the prescription requirement), is the
worst way to handle it.

So why not allow healthy people to take it? Because it distorts the
competition - not who studied the most wins, but he who enhanced himself best.
If you allow some enhancement, why not others forms? What about artificial
limbs for athletes? Where does enhancement stop? What about everyone then
feeling pressured to enhance themselves to still be able to compete, if they
want to or not?

~~~
AngryParsley
I'd say the status quo is bad but not the worst. It would be better if
cognitive-enhancing drugs were available for anyone who wanted them. It would
be worse if using drugs for cognitive enhancement was illegal.

I don't think the sports analogy maps. Sports are artificial competitions and
usually zero-sum. Commerce is cooperative. Intelligent individuals often
benefit the less lucky. They invent new technologies that end up helping
everyone.

 _If you allow some enhancement, why not others forms?_

My sentiments exactly.

 _What about artificial limbs for athletes?_

I guess that would be the Paralympics, but I don't have a problem with it.
Cyborg kickboxing sounds more interesting than any modern day event.

 _Where does enhancement stop?_

Hmm... matrioshka brains I guess. Although I'm willing to compromise and limit
people to Jupiter brains.

 _What about everyone then feeling pressured to enhance themselves to still be
able to compete, if they want to or not?_

The same can be said for getting a college degree or some other kind of
certification. Yes, people feel bad when they have low status, but the
benefits of enhancement technologies outweigh the costs. I'd rather live in a
world where Einsteins were 1 in 10. That world would have a better chance of
solving humanity's problems.

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ghotli
Piracetam is the safest and cheapest nootropic that has consistently had
positive effects on me. It is nothing like adderall, modifinil, or coffee. It
just slightly improves motivation and short term memory. Have some pubmed
abstracts and wikipedia articles:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropics#Nootropics_and_racet...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropics#Nootropics_and_racetams)

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16007238>

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19517672>

~~~
rms
Didn't do anything for me. My roommate said it improved his ability to do
mental math, but the improvement wasn't worth continuing to take it.

~~~
gwern
You have to take it with a choline source. I noticed next to nothing taking it
alone, but when I took it with some choline bitartrate, that's when I noticed
an effect and my dual n-back scores rose a little.

~~~
rms
We were taking it with choline also.

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ambulatorybird
One or two commentators on Reddit suggested that regular exercise and a
healthy diet could work as well. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

~~~
andrewljohnson
I don't think it takes a lot of confirmation to believe that regular exercise
and a healthy diet will have a tremendous impact on everything you do.

But, if you need a bit... it works for me. When I am hiking or skiing 3-4
times a week, I get a lot more done.

~~~
Eliezer
Big lie as far as I can tell. I'd like to see exercise tested against a
placebo.

~~~
msg
<http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/preventionprogram/>

Here's one better. It's a type 2 diabetes study that compared exercise against
metformin against a placebo. The conclusions were so overwhelmingly in favor
of exercise that the study was stopped early.

~~~
radu_floricica
This study is about type 2 diabetes. The question here is on the effects of
exercise as compared to mind-enhancing drugs.

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rms
FYI, if you think you may have ADHD, you probably meet diagnostic criteria. If
you would look to get medication, fill out an online adult ADHD checklist and
bring it to your doctor.

~~~
xpaulbettsx
Seriously - if any of these Ritalin / Adderall etc help you think clearly and
do more than just let you work on less sleep, you most likely _have ADD_ , and
can treat it in a structured way with a doctor helping you, instead of ad-hoc
self medication.

~~~
Jasber
I don't agree with this.

People without ADD experience significant benefits from using Adderall because
it's an amphetamine--not because they have undiagnosed ADD.

Any amphetamine helps you think clearly through being more alert and ability
to concentrate for longer periods of time.

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ulrich
I am surprised by the amount of redditors that know all pros and cons of those
drugs. The first time I even heard about it was when my sister started using
ritalin. It helped her becoming a medium performer in school instead of beeing
on the low end and also increased her social abilities.

What do you think is the percentage of academics using cognitive enhancers or
similar stuff?

~~~
jamesbritt
"I am surprised by the amount of redditors that know all pros and cons of
those drugs."

How can you not want to hack your wetware? Or at least not be curious about
what may be possible?

I'm surprised more people aren't up on this stuff and trying things out.

Feed your head.

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whimsy
<http://sites.google.com/site/thinkinginanutshell/nootropics>

This link was posted a while ago here on HN, I believe.

It's more information dense, though it has testimonials from far fewer people.
(That is, just one person.)

