
China rates its own citizens – including online behaviour - vincvinc
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/china-rates-its-own-citizens-including-online-behaviour~a3979668/
======
Red_Tarsius
This is madness. I thought I was reading a fake article.

> _the system is 'very ambitious in both depth and scope, including
> scrutinizing individual behavior and what books people read. It's Amazon's
> consumer tracking with an Orwellian political twist.'_

What a coincidence. Recently I had to decide whether to buy books on politics
for kindle. I didn't like the fact that it tracks everything I buy, what
sentences I highlight, the notes I keep... I bet my libertarian books would
make my score very low in future China.

> _This score is not only determined by one 's lending behavior, but also by
> hobbies and friends. If friends have a poor lending reputation, this
> reflects badly on the person, just as prolonged playing of video games.
> Buying diapers indicates responsibility and scores therefore well._

This detail was hidden in the article, yet it's one of the most important.
It's not about external control, but also _self-control_. This is what a true
Orwellian society promotes. The score acts as feedback to everything we do.

It's funny to imagine social hackers buying tons of diapers to get on top of
the rankings.

~~~
HSO
> _Recently I had to decide whether to buy books on politics for kindle. I
> didn 't like the fact that it tracks everything I buy, what sentences I
> highlight, the notes I keep... I bet my libertarian books would make my
> score very low in future China._

This is why I keep "pirating" and hoarding books. I know it's bad for the
common good and bad for the authors but I feel paranoid about corporations and
national security agencies collecting and later, perhaps, analyzing what I
read, including how long I linger over a page, what I underline, when I take
screenshot excerpts, etc.

I started innocently enough, by scanning all my physical books (and
downloading the epubs or pirated pdfs of books I already paid for in physical
form whenever available) just to lighten my steps, so to speak. Then I came
upon a passage in 1984 where books were altered, entire passages excised and
rewritten to suit whatever powers that be. It was completely unrealistic when
1984 was written, of course, but in 2013 (when I read it), this hit a little
bit too close to home. With all our devices constantly itching to phone the
mothership, this is not a fantasy anymore but a possibility. All that stands
between Orwell's dark vision and reality is, in fact, political will and our
collective memory of times when this was not possible. Perhaps future
generations who do not remember physical books will more easily acquiesce to
such intrusions for the sake of "mental hygiene" and, you know, the children
and stuff.

Anyhow, today I look at a 16K+ Bibdesk database which, of course, _includes_
the files/ebooks on my airgapped machine and feel curiously satisfied. Not in
a lifetime will I be able to read all this but I know that I _could_ spend my
remaining days reading freely, no matter the external circumstances. Freedom
of thought! (Also, a very neat and nifty system for me personally I admit...
:)

~~~
ForHackernews
> It was completely unrealistic when 1984 was written, of course, but in 2013
> (when I read it), this hit a little bit too close to home.

Ironically enough, Amazon has already once erased _1984_ from users' Kindle
devices:
[http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18ama...](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html?_r=0&gwh=9DBB06F69CE8B5EFB82DA08693631A15)

------
osazuwa
This is bad. But before judging China, people need to ask themselves if the
hold their own government to the same standard of criticism. As an American, I
feel if the US government had similar plans and someone had leaked them on
Wikileaks, there would be more conversation about the leaker's girlfriend than
outrage about the plans themselves.

~~~
adventured
I don't know a single person that doesn't have a very low, highly critical
opinion of the US Government already. That includes essentially universal
skepticism of Congress.

So yes, I think Americans criticize their government almost as a professional
sport. Non-stop 24/7, everywhere. Even for things the government isn't
responsible for.

I'd argue the only thing Americans are guilty of is too much complaining and
criticizing of their government, and not enough _doing_ to change it as a
follow-through.

~~~
CodeCube
You must not know a lot of people ;)

That was a mostly joking jab ... but seriously, have you looked at a
demographics map of the US? In between just about every blue city/urban
center, there are broad swaths of rural red. Many of these folks are of the
opinion that what the government does is right, and we shouldn't question
cause they know best. Which is ironic given their love of "small government"
... but when the police, military, or otherwise "security" related
organization is concerned, it's all yes all day.

~~~
shit_parade2
If you view us politics through a red blue lens you've already been
brainwashed.

------
Aoyagi
What are the odds that something like this is already in place on global scale
by some American spooks? To "fight the war on terrorism" or something. Surely
it's not that difficult to do considering internet megacorps already do
behaviour analysis and payment processors already keep track of what goes
where, including credit scoring.

~~~
guard-of-terra
I doubt it. To make it work, you need leverage. Make citizen's life slightly
easier or slightly worse based on his score.

Worse access to credit, withholding from top universities, preventing from
starting a business - not easy to do anything like that on a grand scale in
market society. So you won't exactly be making a new citizen.

~~~
zimbatm
This sounds exactly what Experian does. They are used by most (all?) UK banks
to validate your credit score and they also provide an "identity protection"
service. If your score is too low with them you don't get any credit anywhere.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Still it is very hard to link credit score with citizen activity, with gradual
punishment of undesirable ones.

Once it would dismarry from financial reality, many banks will start to skip
it, because it will become profitable.

~~~
true_religion
Here's one method of implementing it.

1\. Require that all banks have insurance for accounts that are unable to be
FDIC insured but are under $200,000.

2\. Legislate that credit scores take into account a score determined by
Homeland Security, under the premise that homeland knows more about a person
(e.g. do they gamble in monaco off books a lot? are they involved in a radical
movement and likely to lose or give their jobs? are they a likely to be
arrested?). If the public needs more sell on this use the canned like "Do you
really want your bank to lend money to terrorists?".

3\. Drop FDIC insurance for any bank that operates outside of #2. #1 will
force these banks to buy insurance, lowering their profitability. At this
point, the system self-regulates and is hard to dismantle.

~~~
guard-of-terra
Score is still "go" vs. "no go". You can only shut off so many people because
parallel "grey" finance market arises.

More finesse is needed. You can try banks to offer different deals to
identical (finance-wise) people based on their HS score, but they're probably
sue.

~~~
droidist2
True, also with the rise of P2P lending the oligopoly of these credit rating
agencies will be broken.

------
thebouv
What I wonder about when I read things like this:

How did they get to this point?

What goes on in the mind of the person sitting in the "idea room" when they
first thought of this?

Are they just the product of an already oppressive government and therefore
see this as completely and totally fine?

Or do they know that it is oppressive, but since they're already a cog in the
machine, they pitch the idea up and get praised for it?

~~~
onlywei
I've read enough articles over the years that this move on China's part is not
surprising to me at all. I think the average person in China is quite fed up
with the lack of morality and social compassion in the general public - due to
news articles like the ones I am about to link you.

Extreme lack of good samaritan behavior:
[http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/stories/old-chinese-woman-
aba...](http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/stories/old-chinese-woman-abandoned-in-
field-netizens-point-fingers.html)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wang_Yue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wang_Yue)
[http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/shanghai-pudong-
airpor...](http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/shanghai-pudong-airport-
stabbing-only-a-foreigner-helped.html)

Chinese tourist behavior: [http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/videos/thai-model-
rants-about...](http://www.chinasmack.com/2015/videos/thai-model-rants-about-
chinese-tourists-at-korean-airport.html)
[http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/videos/thai-flight-turned-
bac...](http://www.chinasmack.com/2014/videos/thai-flight-turned-back-due-to-
unruly-chinese-couple-reactions.html)
[http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/mainland-chinese-
tour...](http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/mainland-chinese-tourists-
deface-plants-in-taitung-taiwan.html)

I think the majority of the West believes that the government is behind
everything. But the truth is that most of these kinds of changes in China are
actually reflected in the people's opinion. In this case, the PEOPLE in China
are really sick and tired of seeing news articles like few I have linked. The
government has just decided that this seems like the best method to achieve
what the people want.

I know it sounds kind of crazy, but you have to remember that almost nobody in
China has ever read 1984. They don't share your values.

~~~
thebouv
No, that doesn't sound crazy at all. I don't sit around with the myopic
viewpoint that everyone in the world shares my same ideas, ideals and values.

What I meant by my original post was that I try to put myself into their
thought process when they arrive at such decisions. I know however that I
cannot, based on my own bias and brainwashing.

It is a worthy thought exercise nonetheless.

------
walterbell
From a Salon article on US data mining,
[http://www.salon.com/2015/04/26/big_datas_big_libertarian_li...](http://www.salon.com/2015/04/26/big_datas_big_libertarian_lie_facebook_google_and_the_silicon_valley_ethical_overhaul_we_need/)

 _" All of this is part of what I call the informational appetite. It’s our
total faith in raw data, in the ability to extract empirical certainties about
life’s greatest mysteries, if only one can deduce the proper connections. When
the informational appetite is layered over social media, we get the messianic
digital humanitarianism of Mark Zuckerberg. Connectivity becomes a human
right; Facebook, we are told, can help stop terrorism and promote peace.
(Check out Facebook.com/peace to see this hopeless naïveté in action.)"_

------
EGreg
It's amazing how different the mentality is in Liberal Democracies versus,
say, Communist or Islamic regimes. Personally, I think the evidence is clear
that concentration of power, especially a "rating" like this, is a prelude to
about the worst tools of oppression one can imagine.

But even back here at home, little by little, we are on the way to being
enslaved by the machines. If something can be more efficient (for consumers,
say) it will be made more efficient and put pressure on all the humans
(workers). Already our attention span is not what it used to be because as
humans we have to deal with a huge volume of things being thrown at us.
Already demand for human labor is decreasing. But what's next is much more
efficient ways to punish people for certain behavior, and make them conform.
The hive mind dominates the individual, with better and better tools. China
rates its citizens, not the other way around. All the "soviet russia" joke
formulas come true. The assumption is: one is permanent, the other is not.

I wrote a piece on this. _The genie is out of the bottle: welcome to the Big
Data revolution_ :
[http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169](http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=169)

~~~
vegabook
Consumer credit rating agencies already essentially do this, and a number of
subprime lenders only make credit decisions if they can connect to social
media accounts. There are specialists in "connecting the dots" of all your
various life activities right here in the West. Already certain sectors
require a clean credit score to get a job. It's really not very different from
this Chinese scheme, since this dot-joining will inevitably profile your
political and social leanings, your secrets, your very personality and its
inevitable flaws. China will do centrally what we do in a distributed fashion,
but the end result is the same.

------
oracle2025
That sounds basically like a Credit Rating System, similar systems exists in
probably every first world country.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating)

~~~
captainmuon
Right, a mixture of that, and a few others:

\- Criminal records / record of conduct \- Tracking by various advertising
companies, market research, etc. \- Whatever records NSA, FBI etc. keep on
you. This doesn't even have to be a file-per-person, but they have your
metadata, and if you stick out, you might come under closer scrutinty.

The difference is that these sources are not pulled together. Also as a
sibling post noted, there is no feedback to the citizens. I don't know whether
I have a bad or a good score with the police. I hope I have a good score :-).
But if you want to consciously change citizens behavior, you'd have to tell
them their scores. (Well, what we do right now changes citizens behavior by
scaring them, but thats a different issue.)

One thing I find curious is that there is apparently no sensitivity among the
inventors of this scheme towards how dystopian it sounds like. That's why you
can have big posters in China saying things like "Friends! Be virtuous and
vigilant!" or a Hong Kong official saying something in earnest like "if the
brain is sick, it must be washed" with regards to school textbooks. There are
PSAs and government posters in the US, too, and people try to push their
agendas in school curriculums there, too... but for one they would not go
quite as far in the US, and especially such manipulation is attempted much
more tastefully.

~~~
toothbrush
> That's why you can have big posters in China saying things like "Friends! Be
> virtuous and vigilant!"

I'm not sure what you want to imply, but i just got back from London where
each and every public transport facility (bus, tube, train) kept repeating
over the PA that "any suspicious people or parcels" should be reported to a
member of staff. Or something like that.

We're not really that different -- i would be surprised if the US is.

~~~
katbyte
here (Vancouver Canada) we have similar security ads all over out transit
system

[https://imgur.com/bYVXi7x,DQticJw#0](https://imgur.com/bYVXi7x,DQticJw#0)
[https://imgur.com/bYVXi7x,DQticJw#1](https://imgur.com/bYVXi7x,DQticJw#1)

We also have ones promoting considerate social behavior:

[http://imgur.com/Rqv5hLr,Zh7k1Qf#0](http://imgur.com/Rqv5hLr,Zh7k1Qf#0)
[http://imgur.com/Rqv5hLr,Zh7k1Qf#1](http://imgur.com/Rqv5hLr,Zh7k1Qf#1)

------
user_rob
The interesting truth is that the majority of Chinese society agrees with and
supports such policies. Misunderstanding that and possibly trying to save them
is pointless and counter productive. In my experience there is a surprising
lack of individual social responsibility (or ethical behaviour) in China
unless they are aware that they are under surveillance.

------
coldcode
The wet dream of all governments everywhere - the perfectly controlled
citizen.

~~~
higherpurpose
This is just the initial phase - finding out the _traits_ of the perfectly
controlled citizen. Next is actually creating such citizens. I wouldn't be
surprised if within 3 decades China _regulates_ how parents design their
children at birth (as in they'll all have to design them to be compliant to
the government in adulthood).

[http://www.cbsnews.com/news/designer-babies-on-the-way-in-
ch...](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/designer-babies-on-the-way-in-china-
scientists-attempt-to-unravel-human-intelligence/)

~~~
Ntrails
See, the thing about this comment isn't that I believe it couldn't happen.
It's that I for damn sure don't think it will _only_ be done by China.

The designing will be regulated in all countries, some attributes will be
ruled unsafe to alter, or only allowed to be altered in specific fashions. The
appropriate medical council variant will explain rationally that it's unsafe
to do otherwise for such and such reasons. The line between medical
justification and political meddling is pretty easy to blur with a bit of
pressure and some good relationships.

~~~
tinfoilman
Completely agree but I see it much worse.

The general public will have access to change certain genes/or be required to
make these changes for the 'good' of the population. These Genes will be to
make the working class less disruptive (reducing conflict by reducing genes
that generate anger/or narrowing the emotional band of people to a much more
narrow scope (think gene changes that have the same result as anti depression
medication)) while stating that these genes need to be changed to get rid of
medical issues such as ADHD For example Think about removing the ability to
have their own children, got to pay extra if you want your child to be able to
have their own.

The top will be able to change a lot of other things. They will be able to
boost intelligent (do you really think the governments of the world want a
super smart population? no, they will kept that for themselves)

All in all we are getting to the stage where there will be 2 classes of
humans. The working class will become completely inferior to the uppers and
thanks to the gene changes very few if any will ever raise above their station

Seems like we trying 1984 in US n Euro. And Brave new world in China

If you try and counter this with "people wont stand for it" they will, none of
the China population will stop it, and once its standard there they were be
breeding super humans. The rest of the world will either have to do it to keep
up, or accept our Chinese overlords

So glad I have no plans to bring a child in to this future we all building for
them

~~~
guard-of-terra
"working class"

I actually doubt you need much working class in the society capable of large-
scale gene editing.

Working class is only profitable when produced by pre-industrial society on
its own ("village").

~~~
tinfoilman
Valid point

lets go with instead

Alpha (“the upper class”) Beta (“the second upper class”) Gamma (“the middle
class”) Delta (“the second lower class”) Epsilon (“the lower class”) Double-
Plus (“the superior subdivision among Alphas”) Plus (“the superior subdivision
among Alphas, Betas, Gammas or Deltas, but inferior to Double-Plus”) Minus
(“the inferior subdivision among Alphas, Betas, Gammas or Deltas”) savage (“a
person outside the integrated portions of society, and therefore separate from
all classes”)

Your point about a society capable of large scale gene editing would not need
a working class is legit. it will be used to thin the populations out to
'manageable' numbers. Then class split based on parentage.

A perfect system and within 3-4 generations completely normal

~~~
guard-of-terra
Gamma is not "the middle class", it's "blue collar".

You don't really need deltas and epsilons in the long run. Unless they are
very cheap to have, robots are going to replace them.

~~~
anon4
In the really long run, why would you need anything other than Alphas?

~~~
fineman
Because it's the hierarchy that defines you. An Alpha, alone, is
indistinguishable from an Epsilon. See Veblen Good; if nobody looks at your
rolex it's just a heavy timex.

------
vinalia
There was a good talk back in 2012 from ex NSA that laid out some of the
details for how the US surveillance keeps track of online behavior too[1]. I
think (as awful as it is) we can expect most governments major governments to
do this if it's within their technical capacity.

To get out from under this, I think we'll need 100% encryption of everything,
open source devices, and ways for companies to make money without ads or data
brokering. Basically, this will stop when hell freezes over.

[1] [http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2012/29c3-5338-en-
enemie...](http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2012/29c3-5338-en-
enemies_of_the_state_h264.html#video&t=4584)

 _speed up to 1:14 for the good stuff_

~~~
xnull6guest
Have you been following the news with regard to the Defense Department and
Silicon Valley?

There is a concerted effort now, through government compulsion and money, to
funnel venture capitol towards start-ups with cyber security (offensive and
defensive) and away from those offering encryption and privacy services and
communications solutions.

~~~
colordrops
Could you elaborate or provide links?

~~~
xnull6guest
The sum total of the following links: DoD will be investing, through
parterships with executives of companies that acquire technology from
startups, like Facebook, and with partnerships with Silicon Valley Venture
Capital Firms to invest in companies that increase the national cybersecurity
posture of the US (attack and defense) and to limit funding to technology that
it thought to harm the national security of the US (E2E encryption solutions
are specifically mentioned). The past few months have seen many defense
officials making their way through silicon valley to meet with executives and
VC firms, including the Admirial and soon-to-be-representative of the State
Department.

[http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/24/department-of-defense-
cre...](http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/24/department-of-defense-creates-new-
cyberunit-in-silicon-valley/)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/us/white-house-takes-
cyber...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/27/us/white-house-takes-
cybersecurity-pitch-to-silicon-valley.html)

[http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_27974832/defense-
secr...](http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_27974832/defense-secretary-
calls-rebuilding-ties-silicon-valley)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/science/pentagon-
looking-f...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/science/pentagon-looking-for-
edge-in-the-future-checks-in-with-silicon-valley.html)

[http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/technology/the-pentagon-
as...](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/technology/the-pentagon-as-start-up-
incubator.html)

[http://www.hngn.com/articles/87223/20150424/secretary-
defens...](http://www.hngn.com/articles/87223/20150424/secretary-defense-lays-
out-new-cyberwar-strategy-silicon-valley-help.htm)

[https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/23/defense-department-
sili...](https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/23/defense-department-silicon-
valley/)

[http://cryptome.org/2015/04/dod-cyber-
strategy-2015.pdf](http://cryptome.org/2015/04/dod-cyber-strategy-2015.pdf)

------
olefoo
My gut reaction ( being an anglo, American, redneck, privileged, don't tread
on me kind of person ) is that this is horrible.

But thinking deeper on it I wonder if this is what Chinese Democracy looks
like. The goal being maximal harmony, rather than maximal personal freedom.
The method being a constant polling of all participants by all participants
rather than occasional polling of those who can be bothered to vote.

It looks alien to us because it is alien to us.

~~~
UweSchmidt
It looks alien to you because you haven't come to terms with the fundamental
shift in technology (all the data that is created, collected and analyzed) and
politics in western society (using said data in the name of security).

The current trend is to gather all data and to use it in any way possible,
regardless if you're in China or if you have a Confederate flag on your truck.

~~~
olefoo
Just an FYI a confederate flag is as offensive to most thinking Americans as a
Swastika flag would be to most thinking Germans. For various reasons we don't
currently ban their display. But it is and should be a quick route to
political irrelevance to claim it as your own.

------
chippyleet
119 comments but not a single one drawing the parallels between this and the
NSA's X-KeyScore program.

------
Zarkonnen
_The Solution (Bertolt Brecht)_

After the uprising of the 17th of June

The Secretary of the Writers' Union

Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee

Stating that the people

Had forfeited the confidence of the government

And could win it back only

By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier

In that case for the government

To dissolve the people

And elect another?

------
MarkPNeyer
I was working on a voluntary, p2p version of this:
[https://github.com/neyer/respect](https://github.com/neyer/respect)

------
jacquesm
I don't think China is the only country that does this.

I love the 'respecting the elderly' bit, as in: respect the party bosses.

~~~
bdamm
Indeed, private companies in the United States already do this. The question
is what will the data be used for?

~~~
ginko
This might show my European perspective, but I'd rather have my government
collect such data than some unaccountable private entity. Even better if no
one does it of course.

~~~
squeaky-clean
One difference to me is that a private entity is (hopefully) restricted to
only capturing data through their own channels. i.e. Google can track
everything I search, all of my emails within gmail, etc. But they cannot track
a hotmail account, they can't read my text messages, etc. If I'm not OK with
the tracking, I have other alternatives, or can choose not to use any of them.
But there's nothing stopping the government from intercepting anything I do.

Of course in reality right now, every single channel I go through is a Google
channel. I'm writing this comment within Google Chrome, while an Android phone
sits arms length from me. Heck, I even route all my non-gmail accounts into
gmail. So while it feels different, I guess it really isn't.

And this might show my American perspective, but I trust Google with my data
more than the US government (not saying I trust Google, just that I trust the
government less). Google is an organization founded on technology, and have
shown that they care about pushing forward in innovation in digital security.
The US Gov didn't originate because of the internet and haven't really
demonstrated a mastery of it.

~~~
jacquesm
> The US Gov didn't originate because of the internet and haven't really
> demonstrated a mastery of it.

I think they've shown plenty of mastery of it.

------
guard-of-terra
Soviet Union tried to create a new citizen.

You won't easily find creature more miserable than their result. Alcohol
consumption spiked and life expectancy actually plummeted.

~~~
tedks
The Soviet Union was run by increasingly aging and increasingly paranoid
revolutionaries (literally, people who had fought a coup) who were generally
unconcerned with science.

The PRC is run by technocrats educated in the West.

It's very nice to think that it's impossible to "create a new citizen," but
the West has been doing that pretty effectively over the last few decades. I
don't doubt the Chinese will be successful.

There is no inherent good in the universe. There is no particle or fundamental
force for morality. There are truly no constraints. It is nice to believe that
good will win and evil will fail, but that doesn't always happen. There's no
law of the universe preventing the PRC from creating a new citizen, a
perpetually controllable citizen, held in check by pervasive surveillance of a
very similar form to the one experienced in the West, only with the results
visible, and leveraged against the people openly, rather than covertly and
without opportunity to improve your score (try getting off the no-fly list).

There is no law of the universe that totalitarianism loses and democracy wins.
Maybe the PRC will be successful and create a permanently stable capitalist
totalitarian state.

I wonder who's writing their software?

~~~
guard-of-terra
"who were generally unconcerned with science"

That one is far from truth. Soviet society was hugely concerned with science.
They didn't lack in science in their ways; it just turned out that
scientifically-sound methods often conflict with social reality and what
people like.

For example: while it is sound to build your cities as arrays of concrete
blocks with wide roads served by public transportations, living in such
environment is no picnic. When you relocate someone who used to have their
garden, their garage with tools, etc - into a flat in concrete block, they
usually begin to drink for the lack of activities they are used to.

~~~
tedks
What do you mean by "sound"? Obviously it can't mean "effective" because as
you point out these plans weren't the case.

~~~
guard-of-terra
I mean that as far as science is concerned (disregarding humanitarian sciences
because they were viewed not scientific enough) this sounds like a good,
efficient plan and downside takes some time to notice when you have already
invested much.

------
markvdb
Let's face it: we are not going to avoid mass data collection and scoring in
the west either. The technology is just too cheap to not get people tempted to
do it.

The least bad defense probably is to subvert this into a kind of peer to peer
panopticon as much as possible. Everyone sees and rates all kinds of aspects
of everyone else explicitly and publicly.

~~~
MarkPNeyer
I started working on the p2p version
already:[https://github.com/neyer/respect](https://github.com/neyer/respect)

------
Cerium
This is simply product recommendation software for the government instead of a
corporation like Amazon. Same software; recommends people instead of products!

I also see an isolationist aspect: A citizen who spends significant time
abroad would likely have a lower score and more trouble staying a part of
Chinese society.

Fun read that this article reminded me of: Harmony – July 20, 2010 by Project
Itoh (Author), Alexander O. Smith (Translator)

"In a world where human life is a precious global resource that must be
protected at all costs, everything about a person -- choices, emotions,
biochemistry, cell metabolism -- is monitored and assessed by computer
systems, 24/7\. A variety of complex feedback loops are in place to ensure
optimum conservation of that resource, including everything from good old-
fashioned peer pressure to mandatory inpatient psychiatric treatment." ( M.
Garrison, Amazon Review)

------
sebringj
I'm glad China does this so we can see real world examples of why we don't
fuck with freedom. This will implode eventually just like our money driven
political system bullshit in America.

~~~
xnull6guest
It's funny that when very analogous things happen in America I am accosted by
people defending the principle that the West is still a stalwart of 'freedom'
because we can still choose and have the freedom to take actions that would
hurt us (lower our scores).

If one were to apply the same sort of simplistic argument in the China case,
they have as much freedom as anyone else has.

IMO we would also be fools if we don't think there is a scoring system to help
sort the millions of Americans with profiles in the American intelligence
apparatus.

This is our brave new world.

------
tpeo
I know this isn't a particularly constructive comment, or even a constructive
comment at all, but reality really blows my mind sometimes.

------
stox
Can you say Acxiom? I knew you could.

------
allan_s
does somebody has a link to some Chinese press news about that ?

------
fown9
China has an authoritarian government that produces pollution that threatens
the entire world, uses the great firewall to attack tech companies in other
countries, ignores human rights and free speech, and supports dictators in
Russia and Africa. If China gets anymore powerful, the world is doomed. We
need to curb commerce with China.

~~~
daymanstep
Is this a joke?

~~~
xnull6guest
Probably not.

The US superpower status has been hollowing out and China has begun to be able
to project power in very impressive ways. The US sees China as its major
threat right now. What the US government would like to do is 'contain' China
by keeping it a regional force - so that it can't complete as a global power.

In anticipation of future conflict there has already been a large amount of
anti-China sentiment creeping in America - suddenly all of the news about
China has a negative spin. If they land on the moon its portrayed as scary
rather than impressive. If they build islands in the middle of the Ocean
(legally) it's a 'great mound of sand' rather than an incredibly impressive
engineering feat. China's selling of air defense systems that thwart the US
and the collisions of and mutual reconnaissance of our naval vessels aren't
covered much - basically few real facts but lots of spin.

The US doesn't know whether it will be able to beat back China without having
to resort to violence. If you watch the presidential speeches between
candidates and Washington thinktanks they all have a stance on how they will
deal with 'the China problem' (China is ambitious and there ain't room enough
for the both of us). Jeb Bush basically said military might - Clinton wants to
follow in line with (her) TPP.

There will be more anti-China slant. The interests of China and the US are at
odds and becoming ever more so.

This poster is either part of a spin machine or has fallen for the naive and
simplistic narrative of good-versus-evil.

All in all though, by all accounts, China and the US are set to butt heads and
already have been.

~~~
happyscrappy
The China boogieman is already disappearing. They will have their hands full
with domestic problems as their population demands a more Western lifestyle.
As long as the current allies remain together The West is nigh untouchable,
sorry.

~~~
xnull6guest
It is interesting you think the China boogieman is disappearing. Luckily for
us the relatively near future will inform us who is right so we don't need to
hash out the principles.

It's also interesting to see that what I'm doing in the prior comment is
laying out the case made by Washington and the defense contractors and of
global strategy reports of allies - i.e. I'm merely mirroring official
standings and policies in my comment. Washington is wrong often, let's see if
they are wrong again.

------
shilpam
Wow... how many more sick and oppressive policies does the Chinese government
have to churn out (and so brazenly too) before the people of China say
something? Where's the social unrest.. where's their sense of responsibility
towards their future generations to nip a thing like this in the bud before it
becomes the norm... what, nothing??

~~~
doctorshady
You might ask the same thing about the spying programs in our own back yard.

