
Who Are the Biggest Bullshitters? - inflatableDodo
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2019/04/30/who-are-the-biggest-bullshitters
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dang
There have been many posts and at least one large thread about this:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19749130](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19749130)

Don't miss the salient fact that it was all a study of 15-year-olds.

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smt88
The methodology here is awful, and no one should draw broad conclusions from
the results.

> _They inserted a section into the questionnaire which asked students how
> well they understood a collection of 16 mathematical concepts. Some were
> familiar, such as “polygon” and “probability”, but three were fake: “proper
> number”, “subjunctive scaling” and “declarative fraction”._

Proper number and declarative fraction sound like real things. I speak English
natively, and it would take me a while to decide whether those are simple
childhood-level concepts or not.

For someone who is _not expecting a fake option_ or who doesn't speak English
natively, it's likely you'd be confused by the familiarity of the wording.

I personally can't think of a fraction-related concept that I don't
understand, so I could see myself saying I understand declarative fractions
with no intent to mislead someone.

Further, the subjects of the experiment are _teenagers_. That's one narrow
band of ages, and it says little about the rest of the country.

This is a study designed to get attention and media coverage, not to actually
reveal some useful truth.

~~~
eesmith
When did you learn about continued fractions, Egyptian fractions, and
pandigital fractions? I certainly didn't know about them at the age of 15.

The best bullshitters think they are telling the truth.

~~~
smt88
None of those were on the questionnaire. The minor difference in wording is
significant.

> _The best bullshitters think they are telling the truth._

This redefines bullshit so broadly that we're not even having the same
conversation. It's also an uncharitable way to view people who are just wrong,
as we all are about many things.

How would you feel if someone said that to you the next time you were wrong?
Or are you the only person who gets to say things they believe without being
accused of lying?

Either way, marking an answer on a private, anonymous questionnaire is very
different from lying for personal gain.

~~~
eesmith
I was questioning your statement "I personally can't think of a fraction-
related concept that I don't understand".

"How would you feel ..."

Well, I'm wrong a lot, so I don't often make statements about fully
understanding a topic, and when I do, and I'm corrected, I thank them for
pointing out that I was wrong, and for teaching me something new.

I'll add that "lying for personal gain" is also a redefinition of
"bullshitting". The most relevant definitions from
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullshit)
are:

> 2\. (vulgar, slang) False or exaggerated statements made to impress and
> deceive the listener rather than inform; nonsense.

> 3\. Statements that may be true but misleading nonetheless.

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kalado
This is not saying anything about anyone. It's a school test for children.
Bullshitting (or rather guessing) is exactly what you should be doing in this
situation so you can try to get some partial points for whatever you might
have gotten right.

It's saying more about who is disillusioned about the education system and
understands how to score well.

------
ThePadawan
Real estate agents, surely.

~~~
steveeq1
Lets not forget lawyers, salesmen, and financial "advisors".

