
Why Some Americans Are Risking It and Skipping Health Insurance - katiey
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-26/why-some-americans-are-risking-it-and-skipping-health-insurance
======
judah
I also stopped paying for health insurance; the cost of healthcare was already
high and Obamacare only exacerbated the problem. This article is misleading,
suggesting that the problem is the Trump administration rolling back
Obamacare. The reality is that health insurance was high (over $1000/mo for
me) _before_ Obamacare, and Obamacare only made it higher still, nearly
doubling the monthly cost.

I'm a self-employed contractor paid by the hour, and for my healthy family of
4, Blue Cross Blue Shield insurance here in Minnesota was going up to
$1800/month. (It was $1600/mo in 2017, and $1400/mo in 2016.)

I switched to a Christian health bill sharing ministry[0]. You pay $450/mo for
the entire family. And if you go to the hospital, you're on the hook for the
first $500. Anything over $500 they cover 100%.

So, I lowered my health bill from $1800/mo to $450/mo.

The amount I save each month I put away in a separate bank account to use as
emergency funds, medical or otherwise.

It's been working out fantastically.

[0]: There are numerous ones, but I use
[http://chministries.org](http://chministries.org)

~~~
EADGBE
Looked into these; very interesting.

Do you have to attend a church (and prove it)?

Does it support same-sex marriages?

How does/did your prescription costs compare (if you had any)? I assume a
generic co-pay for tiered drugs for your traditional plan; not sure what
Health Sharing's different prescription discount plans provide.

I don't have much of anything against Christianity, but I think there's a
market for Agnostic Health Sharing programs; for those who may be affected by
these first two requirements, of which may be non-qualifying for some
organizations/individuals.

===========================================================

From their guidelines:

 _9\. Unwed mothers There are times even in the Christian community that unwed
women become pregnant. Christian Healthcare Ministries members have agreed not
to share medical bills for pregnancies of unwed mothers. Instead, CHM
recognizes that in such circumstances the assistance needed goes far beyond
financial aid..._

I saw that coming from a mile away...

~~~
judah
Original poster here.

To be part of our community, you must abide by the community's rules. Our
values include an ideal of male-female marriage, no sex outside of marriage,
no drug use or alcohol abuse, etc. You know, the things we adherents of the
Bible have believed for 3500 years. :-)

Interestingly enough, many of our values -- monogamy, heterosexual marriage,
no drugs or alcohol abuse -- tend to produce people with fewer health issues.

You don't have to agree with us. If you don't like our values, by all means
form your own medical health sharing groups.

~~~
EADGBE
Sure, I get it. I was genuinely intrigued. It seems that _every_ health
sharing program has a Christian background. Was wondering if there were other
associations available.

But how is heterosexual marriage healthier than homosexual marriage?

I'd like generally know more about your prescription prices, if you don't mind
elaborating (if you have any).

~~~
judah
Homosexuality in general is associated with higher risk of disease[0].

But from a values standpoint, we believe (as we have for 3500 years) that
God's ideal for humanity is monogamous male/female marriage. Homosexuality
can't produce children and families, which are important for the stability of
a civilization.

And, frankly speaking from experience, as a child and teen I benefited from
having both a masculine father and a feminine mother. I needed both growing
up. They both taught me things the other couldn't. All other things being
equal, it is good and scientifically natural for a child to have both a mother
and a father.

Prescriptions: Prescription prices can be bad. You get discounts as a self-
payer. Places like Costco and Walgreen's typically have a membership where you
get a pharmacy card and thus lower costs on prescriptions. But ultimately
you're on the hook for the cost; health sharing ministries (at least, the one
I'm using) don't help with it. If you have high cost prescriptions, health
sharing ministries might not be a good option for you.

[0]:
[https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html)

------
StanislavPetrov
Many do so because they don't have a choice - they cannot afford it. Even if
they can scrape together enough money to pay $10,000+ annually in premiums,
that doesn't account for the $5,000+ deductible they have to pay out of pocket
before insurance starts paying (some!) of the costs. Most Working people
cannot afford to shell out $15,000 a year - it isn't a matter of choice. This
is yet another stain on our country when, per capita, we already spend far
more than ever other nation in the world - many of whom have universal
healthcare and all of whom have far better national health and longer
lifespans than we do here in the USA. We are below Costa Rica, Chile, and
Slovenia in lifespan - 31st globally! One of just many reasons people are sick
on tired of the neo-liberal garbage rhetoric spewed by the criminals in
Washington DC (and why they are willing to vote for against them no matter how
corrupt or despicable the "outsider" is).

------
posterboy
Because they want to save money.

/thread

~~~
rdiddly
"mic drop"

Yeah it's basically weighing the cost of something expensive that _probably
won 't_ happen (a claim) against the cost of something expensive that
_definitely will_ happen (premiums). If you can possibly save enough to "self-
insure" against major expenses, you'll always be better off than paying for
it.

~~~
zaarn
Considering the origins of social healthcare, the benefits of it are usually
highest for those who earn the least (when Bismarck introduced it in germany,
workers who got injured were usually dead either by the wound or by starving
because they lost money due to not showing up to work, not even beginning to
be able to afford a doctor other than "susy from across the street knows how
to amputate a leg")

------
pcurve
They should make deductible illegal for health insurance period. The worst
part is that it resets every year.

Even when I had plan with $1000 deductible, I thought twice about going to
doctor. $6000? It might as well be called health scam.

Deductible may discourage people from going, but it also encourage over
utilization once you go over the threshold.

~~~
milesvp
Nonsense. I'm happy to pay my actual health care costs (nevermind doctors
don't know how much they'll charge me). I want health insurance for the crazy
once in a lifetime bankrupting event. I want insurance, where if I end up in a
random ER through no fault of my own I don't have to pay a $100k+ bill.
Meanwhile, let me have a large deductible so I can 'self insure' as much as
possible, and save money on monthly premiums.

~~~
pcurve
what you're referring to is catastrophic coverage, and yes, it's the
absolutely minimum one needs.

The problem is that people are now accepting this type of coverage as new
normal and also paying arm and leg for it.

~~~
maxerickson
The reason the minimum ACA plans cost so much is that they don't have coverage
limits. Much of the cost reflects how expensive medical events can be.

------
paulsutter
My insurance choices as a Washington state individual:

\- $900 a month, $1000 deductible

\- $400 a month, $7000 deductible, doesn’t cover one cent for doctors or
hospitals I use

Notice that the deductible gap and the higher fees equal $6000 a year in
either plan. Three choices: A, B, or neither

~~~
indemnity
US$150 a month for family of three, to cover if I want to go private and be
served immediately.

Otherwise I can go to our public healthcare system which is good and pretty
much free but may have a waiting period for not so urgent care.

I don’t know why some Americans hate this. It’s not either/or. We have both
public and private healthcare, use both, and our taxes are not insane to pay
for it (33% income tax at top tier).

Example: Paid all of US$50 for all the medical scans and pre-checks over 9
months, birth and 3 day hospital care for my recently born son. Parking at the
hospital over those 3 days was more.

However: Dental care after 18 is not free, and is closest to the American
system. And it is also insanely expensive here. Looking at a few grand for
basic procedures.

Disclaimer: New Zealand.

~~~
seem_2211
But we don't have a military industrial complex to feed.

Also, New Zealand is laughably straightforward in terms of governing
structure. Hard to have too much duplication (and easy to hit economies of
scale) when there's only one Police Force for example. In the US there's the
Federal, and the State, and the Municipal level. All with monster
bureaucracies.

Observations: Also Kiwi, but live in 'Murica.

------
pcurve
A fun chart on where 3 trillions actually end up.

[https://wire.ama-assn.org/ama-news/analysis-health-care-
spen...](https://wire.ama-assn.org/ama-news/analysis-health-care-spending-
where-do-dollars-go)

------
harrumph
Because they are gamblers.

/thread

~~~
cko
Given the numbers these people are facing, I’d be a “gambler” too.

~~~
harrumph
>Given the numbers these people are facing, I’d be a “gambler” too.

Not me. Premiums, as brutal as they are, absolutely __pale __in comparison to
what health care can cost you in the US under the rubric of for-profit health
insurance.

~~~
slededit
At several thousand per month, risking bankruptcy is actually the most prudent
thing to do for many people. They can't take your house, and generally you can
start getting loans a year afterward.

~~~
harrumph
>At several thousand per month, risking bankruptcy is actually the most
prudent thing to do for many people. They can’t take your house

“They can’t take your house” is not only totally false, it betrays a property
owner’s perspective that tens of millions of patients at risk of medical
destitution do not share. This kind of hand-waving is self-absorbed, clueless
and destructive.

~~~
slededit
Sure, renters are in a tougher spot. However the scale of the problem has
expanded to include property owners - people we'd previously consider to be
pretty financially secure.

