
Airbnb: A fan legally constitutes an air conditioner - forgotmyacc
https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_100_degrees_in_mexico_and_airbnb_wont_offer_a/
======
RcouF1uZ4gsC
There is a saying that goes something like: when you play with snakes, don't
be surprised if you get bitten.

When you book AirBnb vs a hotel you are signalling that you value cost over
predictability and oversight. Those hotel fees and regulations are there for a
reason. With AirBnb, one of the reasons they can offer stuff cheaply is that
they are arbitraging regulation and oversight.

If you really need to work, book a hotel that serves business clients.

I view this complaint in the same manner I view people who book travel on
RyanAir and complain about poor service. The whole point of RyanAir is about
seeing how much misery people will tolerate in exchange for a cheap airfare.

~~~
atombender
This assumes you're okay with the "hotel experience".

Personally, I dislike hotels. I don't like carpets or elevators or garish
faux-marble baths. I don't like being in the middle of a city next to tourist
traps or some busy downtown. I don't like being on the 23th floor, shut away
from nature. I don't like staying in a place that is just a bedroom and this
weird tiny desk that has a big TV on it so it's not usable for anything. I
find most hotels clinical, synthetic and alienating. There are exceptions, of
course; there are some great boutique hotels out there. But they are far apart
and usually out of my price range.

When booking a trip, I choose Airbnb because I can pick a place that was made
for living in. You know, the way you do at home. Multiple rooms, a kitchen,
maybe some outdoor space, all in a practical location. Airbnb also allows me
to pick features I could never get at a hotel, such as a private pool or
private parking. And it allows me to scale it up and rent a whole place for a
family or group of friends.

People make the mistake of thinking that Airbnb is about competing with hotels
by offering lower prices on the same service and that somehow the lower price
is because "it's just someone's home", but it really isn't the same service at
all. If a hotel could offer what I could get with Airbnb, I'd be all over it.

~~~
ASalazarMX
Then ending up with a room that is conditioned for the locals, and not hotel-
grade, should be perfectly acceptable too, and Airbnb and their partners are
doing it right. Nothing to see here.

~~~
atombender
But with hotels, too, you can end up with something that isn't to your
satisfaction, contrary to how it's presented in the listing and contrary to
your expectations. Hotels are likely to be more consistent here, but there's
never any guarantee.

One difference is in the ability to rectify such issues. Since Airbnb is a
middleman who doesn't own the property, and the host is potentially not able
to be physically present (e.g. it's a short-term sublet while the host is on a
trip, as opposed to a permanent Airbnb), the blame may technically lie with
the host, but Airbnb's platform is also responsible. Airbnb can't pretend
they're merely a passive hosting platform for hosts, and needs to tread more
carefully in handling such disputes.

------
mc32
So apparently it had A/C in bedrooms but not other areas. Host suggested
leaving doors open and having a fan redirect air from bedroom(s) to living
area. Looks like guests were looking to work while on a trip, so wanted and
expected A/C throughout.

I can see both sides. On the one hand it did have A/C —just not central A/C.
On the other hand it was (they claim 100F) and were trying to “work from
home.” On the other hand it was $60/night equivalent...

It’s kinda borderline. What would judge Judy decide? Split the diff?

~~~
not_a_moth
I'm kind of leaning towards AirBnB, because it sounds like the travelers
didn't bother with any diligence, which is puzzling when having AC was so
critical to their trip.

I think it's reasonable to expect AirBnB hosts, like any seller, to try to
bend the truth or hide inconveniences in their listing, and it's up to you,
the buyer, to exercise caution, read reviews, or ask the host.

That said, if hotels try that kind of BS, I complain until they refund me or
upgrade my room, which has worked 10/10 times. This is one area where hotels
have a clear advantage over AirBnB.

~~~
whatshisface
> _I think it 's reasonable to expect AirBnB hosts, like any seller, to try to
> bend the truth or hide inconveniences in their listing_

If we all pitched in and shamed dishonest sellers (to the point where there
was a culture of honesty), we could all have the reliability of hotels without
any of the costs of management. It's like how one of the reasons third world
countries are so bad is that there is no social trust.

~~~
jobigoud
That's exactly what is happening through the review system. I find AirBnB
reviews to be much more reliable than say Amazon or other easily gamed places.
You can and should shame bad hosts and bad guests. You can't see the review
text until after both wrote a review so there is no fear of revenge.

------
Twirrim
As is ever the case, dig in deeper and oh look we see the apartment did have
A/C as advertised.

[https://old.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10...](https://old.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_100_degrees_in_mexico_and_airbnb_wont_offer_a/eznhz87/)

~~~
chronolitus
Copy paste in case it gets deleted:

""" I'm OP's roommate and I was involved in this. We booked the place on short
notice and came to see it the same day. It was advertised as a "penthouse" but
in reality it was simply the top floor of a pretty decrepit ~50+ yo building,
with bars on every window, and a filthy "pool". This is the view from the
"penthouse".

Contrary to what Airbnb says in the screenshot, there was no "A/C" of any kind
in the bathrooms (no, not even fans). The only A/C units were in the bedrooms,
and they were small, sized for bedrooms. The host showed up and said that if
we let the A/C in the bedrooms run for 20 minutes with the doors open and the
fan strategically placed, the living room and kitchen would be "cold like a
fridge".

We let it run for 30 minutes and were still sweating after that. Told him we
couldn't stay because we work from home and the heat was just unbearable in
the daytime during this hot season.

What pissed me off:

The host refused to refund us anything (which is why we reached out to
Airbnb). Airbnb refunded ~USD 300, so the host took USD 480 from us for
essentially visiting the place for 30 minutes. That's a $1000/hour
occupation... pretty lucrative. Yes, we wasted their time, and an opportunity
for someone else to book it, so I'd be totally fine with paying the nightly
rate (USD 60) for even two nights. But not for over a week. It's just not fair
by any stretch of the imagination. (Note that it's the week before Mexico's
Independence Day, and the host bragged that the place will get occupied very
soon if we don't book. Also, we booked same-day, and left same-day. How Airbnb
considers that is inconveniencing the host USD 480, baffles me.)

Airbnb's rude, STFU, response:

This is the last that can be said on the subject.

This seems to be part of the training they give to support agents, because I
saw the same phrasing in the famous How I Got Banned for Life from AirBnB
post:

we consider this matter closed and will no longer reply to any inquiries
regarding your account

The fact that Airbnb doesn't have anything more nuanced than "Yes A/C", "No
A/C". How about "partial A/C"? How hard is it to implement that, Airbnb? It's
one thing to have central A/C or heating, and a very different thing to have a
heater in one room or a fan in another. """

~~~
dandv
I won't delete it.

------
bkohlmann
On the other hand, when an act of god occurs, airbnb holds the host completely
responsible.

My wife and I own an airbnb (with a/c!). At midnight one evening, the a/c went
out due to a mechanical failure. The temperature in the texas heat rose to 80
degrees in our condo. Our guests called us to complain.

We couldnt find any techs at that time of night (and at 1am we tried!), but
had one come in at 8am the next morning - and it was fixed by 10am.

The guests asked for a refund from airbnb based on breach of contract...and
airbnb agreed, saying our unit did not match what we had advertised. No matter
that we've had over 600 very positive reviews in the past 5 years.

Maybe we owed the guests a refund despite trying to solve the issue as best we
could. But seeing the internal inconsistency of this article angers me (our
unit does have two ceiling fans!)

~~~
JohnJamesRambo
How do you see it any other way than that you owe them a refund? Have you ever
tried to stay in a hotel room that is 80?

~~~
eesmith
I could see getting a partial refund instead of a full one.

Otherwise, why even try to find an a/c tech at night, if you know that it
won't make a difference?

~~~
jhy
So, you'd be happy if another guest decided to leave at 2am one morning and
pay you only 50%? You're charging a nightly rate, not an hourly rate.

~~~
cannonedhamster
You're arguing a different point. The refund is because the beach of contract
was only for a specified time. A total refund provides no incentive to attempt
to rectify the situation.

~~~
pas
Does that matter? Because there was no work around anyway. Sure they tried to
find an AC tech, but ... haven't, so no AC in 80 F (26.6C).

A partial refund would incentivise we-tried-our-best problem solving.

------
Thorentis
This is intentionally misleading. Sure, "legally" it might be accurate , but
is that what a customer would be expecting if a listing says the accommodation
has air conditioning? AirBnB should provide accurate representations of
accommodation, regardless of the legal definition. The listings are not legal
documents - they exist to inform customers what they will be getting for their
money. And if AirBnB knowingly misleads customers (despite adhering to legal
definitions) then they could (in some countries) be liable under consumer
protection laws.

~~~
privateSFacct
The accommodation had A/C, just not in every room. I've rented AirBnB's like
this. You are out all day, come home, turn on AC in bedrooms and go to sleep.
Not everyone puts AC into their kitchen, dining room, living room, bathrooms
etc etc.

You are going to sue AirBnB over this?

~~~
Thorentis
Ah didn't realise full context in this specific case. I was referring only to
"a fan legally constitutes an aircon". So, if the _only_ thing in an AirBnB is
a fan, saying it has aircon is misleading.

~~~
privateSFacct
The point here is that this guest is misleading everyone and the media is
eating it up. Airbnb says that the hosts description of the place was
reasonable. It had AC. It just didn't have it in every room the guest wanted.
This is not a "fan is AC" \- and airbnb never said that, this (spoiled) guest
did. What airbnb is saying is some rooms have AC is AC. While that could be
argued, the headline should reflect that.

If you're just reading the headline easy to get it wrong. But these "outrage"
stories often have another side.

~~~
dandv
No. The Airbnb rep said EXACTLY that, as seen in the screenshot.

Context: I'm the OP's roommate. See my detailed reply at
[https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10...](https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_100_degrees_in_mexico_and_airbnb_wont_offer_a/eznhz87).

See also [https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/44524/can-a-fan-
be-c...](https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/44524/can-a-fan-be-
considered-an-air-conditioning-unit)

See also [https://airhostsforum.com/t/do-fans-count-as-
airconditioning...](https://airhostsforum.com/t/do-fans-count-as-
airconditioning/5729)

------
bdowling
From the Airbnb message: > “This is the last that can be said on the subject.”

Why would a customer service representative be allowed to write something so
smarmy and condescending?

~~~
pwinnski
As a customer, this seems out of line.

As someone who has worked in customer service, and observed customer service
workers at my company, it seems completely reasonable, especially when dealing
with entitled people like the OP and his roommate (from other comments).

~~~
dandv
That's how Airbnb agents are trained. It's exactly the kind of phrase used in
the famous "How I Got Banned for Life from AirBnB" post:

> Additionally, we consider this matter closed and will no longer reply to any
> inquiries regarding your account.

Source: [https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-
go...](https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-got-banned-
for-life-from-airbnb-615434c6eeba)

------
bastard_op
My first and last experience with AirBnB was a lack of AC, fan, or anything in
a very hot, humid home rental in Santa Monica last year for a month straight
during an abnormally hot (go figure) summer. I had to find/invest in as large
a box fan I could find, which I left for the next poor bastard.

Never again. My fault? Perhaps, but still, never again. Thanks for the
memories AirBnB.

------
nojvek
AirBnB is a monopoly in an unregulated market. It can do whatever it pleases
with little recourse. What are you going to do? Leave. Great, some other
sucker will take the bait.

In an unregulated market, they make whatever rules make them the most profit.
I quit AirBnb 3 years ago when a $400/night place in NY clearly engaged in
false advertisement by stating the wrong room size. It had pungent smell and
generally was a hell hole. AirBnB would not refund. That’s the last I ever
made a booking to AirBnB.

I really hope governments step up their game and bring some sanity. AirBnB as
a monopoly is wrecking havoc to many cities. It’s like a virus.

------
wpdev_63
I needed to report an airbnb that was having someone else who's not the host
on airbnb site run it. So I was staying in the place with a person that they
ran no background check on. They only allow you to make a report from a pre
selected list of possible complaints and support wasn't any help. The system
was setup to prevent the user from reporting problems that they cannot easily
solve.

Airbnb is just one little step above hopping on craigslist and finding a room.

------
mnm1
I had a similar situation with vrbo. The ac was broken and the host installed
a makeshift "ac" system that didn't even cool the room it was in. This was in
Vegas with temps way above 100. I didn't stay there and they only refunded me
1/3 the cost. I'm waiting for the chargeback to come through.

Another time in Mexico at the Marriott their "ac" would not go below 73 or so.
It was still pretty warm. That time I got fucked.

Another time I stayed at a holiday inn outside DC with temps well into the
90s. The whole floor had the ac turned off. They said they couldn't turn it
on. It was late so we suffered for one night but then hotels.com moved us to
another hotel (I had silver membership).

Another time I stayed at an airbnb in Amsterdam and the ceiling fan was
considered ac. It wasn't that hot so that wasn't a big deal and I didn't mind
in that case.

Basically, if you want ac you're taking a big chance staying at an airbnb,
vrbo, Marriott, or other hotel. It's a big issue both in and out of the us.
There should be regulations. If the temperature can't be regulated to 65 -
68F, sleeping temperatures, then it can't be considered ac. Of course, without
regulations it can even if it doesn't actually cool any space down. Scam
artists are everywhere.

