
AppSumo.com not honoring lifetime deal and deleting reactions in Facebook group - johny115
here is full context - https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;aP9ZZ<p>I am interested if people here think this is okay or not.<p>In short, they sold lifetime license for their own product (KingSumo) that functioned as Wordpress plugin and recently remade it into a SaaS. We were informed on email to give new version of KingSumo a try. I couldn&#x27;t login and was then informed I have to pay for it because it is separate from the wordpress version that I paid for.<p>I posted about it in their facebook group, which caused uproar from all buyers, but eventually they shut it down and any new post I make gets deleted immediately.<p>What do you think of this? Is it too much to expect the $49 or $149 licenses to apply to $8&#x2F;mo new version?<p>Someone else wrote this: (which feels to me like it makes sense)
&quot;Now, we have invested in a plugin, they took our money and converted it into a SaaS model. That does not feel ok. The plans for this must have been known 3 months ago, when you sold the plugin version. It simply makes the lifetime deal from last November feels like a type of crowdfunding to get funds for the new version…&quot;
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wastedhours
As bad a taste as it might leave, I'm not sure there's a leg to stand on here.
You can still use the product you bought in the form you bought it (as I
understand it), under the license you bought it, and you'll still get access
to "lifetime updates" included. Granted, there might not be any futures
updates to be eligible for as part of that, but unless you had an SLA on a
roadmap, seems likely there's no real recourse here?

Business-wise, having a sale on something you're going to
deprioritise/eventually sunset passes my smell-check, though there's a slight
whiff with the leading point around "lifetime" (given that the lifetime seems
to be, ahem, pretty short...).

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OzzyB
Sounds like feigned outrage to me; you're conflating a software product (WP
plugin in this case) w/ an ongoing SaaS product -- I don't see how you could
expect one to honoured by the other.

Are you still able to use the Plugin? Or are your forced to use the SaaS
product?

> so you can continue using the Wordpress version... and we're going to keep
> support it

Yep, you still have your WP Plugin w/ "Lifetime Support", don't see a problem,
sorry.

~~~
johny115
The SaaS is not ongoing, it was released 2 days ago. And in November they sold
us the only existing version, the wordpress version knowing they will soon
release the better SaaS version.

This what their FAQ on website originally said about the Wordpress use: (they
changed it recently)

"However keep in mind we're focusing the most resources on our new version
going forward."

~~~
OzzyB
Tbh I can't see what is so wrong about this.

> [https://kingsumo.com/pricing](https://kingsumo.com/pricing)

It looks like they are offering an going SaaS version that they host for you,
and a self-hosted WP version that you can install yourself for a fixed one-
time price.

> ... the $49 or $149 licenses to apply to $8/mo new version?

The prices for self-hosted now look a lot more than those (early-
bird/introductory?) prices you guys paid.

Sorry if you feel wronged, but I think you need to understand that this is a
pretty common pricing structure, i.e self vs hosted pricing.

~~~
johny115
The pricing page you're looking at now was changed today or so. You would be
totally right, if we knew about this before today.

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JohnTHaller
To clarify... AppSumo sold people a WordPress plugin for $49 for one site or
$149 for unlimited WordPress sites on Black Friday which offers unlimited
giveaways and mailing list integration. AppSumo still offers the standalone
WordPress plugin but has also launched a SaaS app that integrates with
WordPress as well as other systems. This SaaS app is offered for $0/mo for
unlimited giveaways and mailing list integration. They also offer a pro
version for $8/mo which adds in the ability to custom brand your offers. This
ability to custom brand was not a part of the product you purchased on Black
Friday. The publisher is giving one year of access ($96) to this new pro
offering to people who had purchased the WordPress plugin.

I'm unclear what the issue is. If you'd like to use the current plugin on
WordPress because you like the integration, you can do so. If you'd like to
use the new SaaS product on WordPress or any other site, you can do so for
free. If you'd like to custom brand, a new offering from this publisher, you
get a year of it for free and you can pay to do so after that. Were you
expecting the publisher to give you their new offering with a new feature you
weren't promised and didn't pay for for free forever?

~~~
johny115
yes,

same as with every other deal on AppSumo ... I wasn't promised Zapier
integration from Mailshake, but have it ... I wasn't promised image templates
from Missinglettr, but have them .... etc. this is how AppSumo deals just are
... because they promise lifetime licence

When you go to McDonalds anywhere in the world, you expect a similar
cheeseburger because of the brand/platform ... when you get used to the same
cheeseburgers and then suddenly you get something awful ... you would be
surprised too .. and outraged at McDonalds

Did you even look at the facebook thread in the link? There are now dozens of
other disappointed people, you can't have that unless you set a wrong
expectation. There are countless other AppSumo lifetime deals that don't have
any problems like this, because they do upgrade us on features as expected. If
you can't deliver on it, then don't sell it right?

~~~
pluma
No offense, but you are a great example for the rule that giving people
privileges for free is a bad idea because they will take them for granted and
be upset when you no longer give them those privileges for free.

If you go to a take-away and always get extra napkins for free, you feel
entitled to those extra napkins for free, so when they no longer do that you
feel like you've been wronged although the extra napkins were never part of
what you paid for.

AppSumo didn't take anything from you. They just didn't go above and beyond
their duty this time for whatever reason and now you feel like you've been
cheated because you justified the expense for yourself based on the
expectation that they'd do it again.

~~~
johny115
"AppSumo didn't take anything from you. They just didn't go above and beyond
their duty this time for whatever reason and now you feel like you've been
cheated because you justified the expense for yourself based on the
expectation that they'd do it again."

well yes, although not super precise ... the "above and beyond" tends to be
specified as free updates for life ... it's just that it's not exactly
specified as what that means, since nobody is a fortune teller and the product
owners don't even know themselves what feature they will add three years later
... but I guarantee you, that the moment when all appsumo deals stop promising
future updates ... half of the people will stop buying ... this is not a
stolen napkin, not something extra ... this is an important feature of the
appsumo deals ... we buy those deals ... and many (if not most) of us don't
even use the products much, knowing we can use them 3 years later when we need
them and they will be up to date ... in the fb thread, none of us have even
used KingSumo yet .. it would be pointless to stack up on apps that won't work
as best as they can later

~~~
pluma
> in the fb thread, none of us have even used KingSumo yet

So you're complaining about something you bought that you don't even have any
intention of using right now?

> knowing we can use them 3 years later when we need them and they will be up
> to date

Nothing on that site says it won't be maintained for 3 years, just that it
likely won't get any new features (unless they port them over from the new
SaaS).

> it would be pointless to stack up on apps

So you've been bargain hunting, hoping to snipe great plugins for cheap early
on so you won't have to pay the full price when you need them later (or when
they get features that make them actually useful to you). Sounds like we've at
least found the reason why AppSumo doesn't consider the "pay once" model
sustainable anymore and is moving to a SaaS model instead.

It costs money to develop these plugins. You paid a fraction of the regular
price. You got more than your money's worth already. You just didn't luck out
and pay for something that'll turn out to be incredibly useful to you later
on.

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thisisit
IMHO, there are issues on both sides.

Using words like "lifetime deals" entice customers but also sets expectations
which might be hard to maintain. Especially when when companies they oversold
their promises and the generated fees might not be enough to hire devs and
keep the product running. Personally, I think lifetime should at least include
5 years of service, irrespective of version changes.

From the looks of it, the lifetime plugin sold very well and Appsumo realized
later that web app and subscription model are a much better fit. So, I doubt
they knew 3 months ago that they might end up doing this.

On the flip side, companies do grandfather existing customers to newer and
potentially expensive plans. So, if the webapp is better and faster then I
think asking people for more money isn't wrong. If the wordpress plugin
continues to work and is updated then it is an expected solution.

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iAMAGuest
This seems like a branding vs product issue.

Kingsumo is the brand and the products are 1) a SaaS, 2) a wordpress plugin.

From their FAQ ([https://kingsumo.com/faq](https://kingsumo.com/faq))

> I use the WordPress version. Why isn’t my login working for the web app?

> If you already have the WordPress plugin, you’ll need to register again.
> This new web app version is different than the WordPress plugin version.
> We’ll continue to support both, but since they’re two separate products you
> can register for each.

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pluma
You got what you saw: unlimited use of the WordPress plugin. I don't even see
mentions of any guarantees about updates -- but as long as they maintain the
plugin for say 3-5 years or so I think the "lifetime" claim is perfectly
valid.

The SaaS app is an entirely different product, as evidenced by the fact you're
saying it even looks different. It also has a different business model.

If you buy a finished product you don't normally expect new features to be
added if it's not on a subscription model. If it's explicitly "early access"
or "beta" software you might reasonably expect it to be polished and maybe get
whatever features it is currently missing (if they have been advertised or are
obviously necessary for it to fulfill its advertised purpose) but a finished
product is a finished product.

My understanding of a plugin being sold with a "lifetime license" would be
that I get any updates to that plugin for free but that that won't include new
"major" versions. Similar to how if I paid for MS Office 1997 I wouldn't
expect that to mean I also get a free "upgrade" to MS Office 2000.

If you saw enough value in the plugin to justify the purchase and keep it past
the 60 day no-questions-asked money back guarantee, there's frankly no reason
to be upset unless they stop providing security updates or no longer maintain
the plugin for compatibility with newer WP versions.

Would you be equally upset if they never released the SaaS version but still
stopped adding features to the plugin (while still offering security and
compatibility updates)? If not, what difference does it make they now also
offer a SaaS product?

You bought a software product and an implicit guarantee of keeping that
software product in a working condition. You didn't buy a team of developers
continuously working on improving that product and adding new features.

~~~
johny115
Interestingly enough:

[https://appsumo.com/kingsumo1-black-
friday-2016-offer/](https://appsumo.com/kingsumo1-black-friday-2016-offer/) \-
the 2016 sale says "free updates for life"

[https://appsumo.com/black-friday-kingsumo-
personal-2017/](https://appsumo.com/black-friday-kingsumo-personal-2017/) \-
the 2017 black friday sale suddenly does not have that (seem like here they
already knew they will sell SaaS soon, but this is rare on appsumo to not
promise updates for life, most probably overlooked this)

All AppSumo lifetime deals include all future upgrades (unless they clearly
specify its 1 year licence or so), this is the general expectation, and that's
the point of it.

Many deals are kinda broken and unusable at the point of their sale, but
people will buy they in hope they will become great in future. Yes its kinda
like beta versions.

This is happening time and time again ... many AppSumo deals changed
dramatically and the lifetime deals are still honored, some even change their
pricing models completely, but in some shape or form, the lifetime deals are
still honored. It's basically early funding and exposure (more importantly).

When I bought Mailshake it was pretty basic, but damn, they still keep adding
features. They could have done the same and say, hey, if you want the new
Zapier integration, you gotta pay for it, but they dont do that, because they
set certain exepcation with lifetime licence.

The point is that this didn't go as expected.

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StavrosK
What was the lifetime license for? Updates? If so, are they still updating the
plugin? If it's still being updated, and they didn't just abandon it
altogether a few months after you bought a lifetime subscription, it seems to
me that you got what you expected and what they told you you were getting.

~~~
johny115
Its the first picture "Unlimited giveaways / No subscription fees"

In their FAQ they said this: "keep in mind we're focusing the most resources
on our new version going forward." but changed it since and claim they will
update it ... but look as those products separately ... they are like night
and day ... the wordpress version has outdated design and only the new version
looks good

~~~
pluma
You bought the "outdated design" three months ago so presumably it was good
enough then. I don't see why you think you're owed a flashy new design unless
they explicitly teased the new design back then without revealing it was for
the SaaS app.

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nickphx
I do not see a problem. The plugin still works. I do not fault them for
deleting your posts as they are factually incorrect and only spread your
invalid interpretation of the situation.

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citilife
Depending - you might be able to take them to small claims court. Given the
small value, they likely wont fight it.

You'd have to come with the terms of service though.

Given the value, it'll be a huge headache for them to fight it. They'll likely
just convert you all over. If not, they'll have to pay damages, which would be
awful for them (if there's a few thousand people).

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PatrolX
if ($haz_sumo ~* "/sumo-plugin/") {set $happy "1";}

if ($sumo_makes_more_than_it_costs ~* "/making-$$$/") {set $happy
"${happy}1";}

if ($happy = "11") {set $no_problem "true";}

------
GrumpyNl
You are screwed!

