
Mozilla to Remove Support for Built-In Feed Reader from Firefox - HelenePhisher
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/mozilla-to-remove-support-for-built-in-feed-reader-from-firefox/
======
treve
It's understandable that this is done, given the usage numbers. I've never
really used live bookmarks in the past 10 years, but I always had the 'feed'
navigation button appear if a site has a feed.

It still saddens me, because it's another nail in the coffin for an important
technology. It's technologies like Atom/RSS that once broke us out of silos.
We're back in the silo though, and I would love Mozilla to lead the front in
breaking us out again.

Maybe it's not RSS and Atom that lead us into the next revolution. Maybe it's
activityfeed? I want it badly though.

~~~
gergles
The people most likely to use these features I imagine are also the ones most
likely to turn off telemetry. Making decisions to remove long-standing
features based on telemetry seems short-sighted to me because of this reason.

~~~
Vinnl
Also the ones most likely to be able to install an extension to do the same
job.

That said, if you want Mozilla (or other organisations, for that matter) to
make decisions based on how you're using their products, then it doesn't seem
like an unreasonable expectation from their side that you tell them about that
usage, i.e. through telemetry.

~~~
SllX
There are other means of getting usage data than just telemetry. Depending on
it when you know some percentage of your userbase has turned it off is
disregarding those users completely.

At the same time, people disable telemetry because as we've come to understand
much more clearly as a society (and some of us already knew long before
"recently"), there is too much data floating around about us as it is. Not all
of it stored in a secured, anonymized fashion even if the organization in
question claims to. People are skeptical of automatic telemetry data
collection for good reason.

~~~
Vinnl
As I said in another comment: this is a valid concern, but not one that has a
better way to deal with it other than what Mozilla is doing now, i.e. ignoring
telemetry-disabled users. Or at least, there's no better way of dealing with
that that I know of.

------
dh-g
I replicated FF live bookmark handling for Chrome years ago via an extension.
This morning I laughed when I saw users opening github issues asking to port
that extension to FF.

extension: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/foxish-live-
rss/jp...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/foxish-live-
rss/jpgagcapnkccceppgljfpoadahaopjdb?hl=en)

~~~
billiam
Best part of all is that Web Extensions API is totally based on the Chrome
extension API so it should be easy! Imitation is the sincerest form of
flattery!

~~~
mandelbulb
Well, Foxish had been ported on the same day [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/livemarks/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/livemarks/)

------
netghost
For what it's worth, I just recently released a simple feed reader that sits
in Firefox's sidebar. It's meant to blend in as much as possible in the vein
of the older Firefox plugin Sage. You can import OPML files from all your
favorite sources (probably).

Extension is here: [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/brook-feed-
re...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/brook-feed-reader/)

The full source is here:
[https://github.com/adamsanderson/brook](https://github.com/adamsanderson/brook)

Even if you don't fancy using it, you may find the source handy if you want to
build an extension yourself. Also if you're interested, I'd love feedback,
suggestions and bug reports.

------
AdmiralAsshat
Can't say I was even aware of it, much less used it.

I have a perfectly serviceable FOSS application to be my desktop Feed Reader
(Liferea), but to be honest I never really use _that_ , either. Wading through
my news feed is now an activity that I do almost exclusively through Feedly on
my phone or tablet, usually either while I'm having my morning coffee or as
I'm winding down for bed.

I suppose if Mozilla had done a better job of advertising it I might've given
it a second look. FWIW, Firefox's "Reader Mode" is _fantastic_ , and if they
had somehow combined that with the RSS reader, particularly on Firefox Mobile
for Android where I do the majority of my reading, I probably would've been
all-in. I don't believe Feedly is open source, so having one that is would be
preferable in case Feedly ever decides to go the way of Google Reader and/or
Pulse (which just went to garbage after LinkedIn bought it).

~~~
NeedMoreTea
A _very_ long time ago, iirc, Firefox installed with the bookmarks toolbar
default on and a live bookmark example with some help text and populated with
BBC news (Perhaps different in non-GB locales).

From that start it's been successively made more discrete (i.e. buried) with
subsequent releases. They defaulted the bookmarks bar to off and at some point
removed the pre-created example.

------
Grumbledour
I feel this is a disgrace!

Not the removal of live bookmarks, it's fair to expect this to be an
extension, but the removal of feed discovery. of course, it wont matter that
much to most people, since Mozilla removed that functionality from the URL bar
years ago and put it into a button that is not visible by default, thus making
sure Joe Average never needs to think about what an RSS feed could be. I would
argue that started the trend many sites picked up, where there are still feeds
available, but they are nearly impossible to find unless you stumble upon some
old sub page via a search engine that used to advertise them and someone
forgot to delete it when it was unlinked.

Honestly, RSS is great and I don't see it dying anytime soon, but there will
also be no more adaption, because it is just such a technical topic and is
nearly impossible to discover the feeds and how they work unless someone
knowledgeable shows it to you.

And for a web browser to have no option of displaying available feeds to the
user is just embarrassing. But then, that also was the death of micro formats
as useful to end-users, having no UI available to interact meaningfully.

------
GordonS
I've been using a Firefox extension to read RSS feeds for years - the built-in
RSS functionality has always been far too basic for real use.

Still, I'd have much rather seen Mozilla build better RSS functionality,
rather than simply removing it altogether.

~~~
tunap
"far too basic for real use."

For some, myself included, basic is all we want. IF something piques my
interest, I will open it. Otherwise, I have a basic idea of current events in
< 10 minutes and get on w/ life... sans cookies, tracking, ads, java heavy
page loads, etc.

Engineering 101: Simple is the most advanced technology. It is not the most
profitable, however. YMMV.

~~~
severine
I agree with all you say, except for one thing.

When I installed the fantastic Cookie Autodelete extension [links below], I
had it with the option for allowing notifications on deletion, and I realised
that all my live bookmarks were setting cookies.

No big deal, but thought you'd like to know.

[1] [https://github.com/Cookie-AutoDelete/Cookie-
AutoDelete](https://github.com/Cookie-AutoDelete/Cookie-AutoDelete)

[2] [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-
autode...](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autodelete/)

[3] [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cookie-
autodelete/...](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cookie-
autodelete/fhcgjolkccmbidfldomjliifgaodjagh)

~~~
tunap
Thanks, TIL. I presume Ctrl+Shift+Del(all) & BleachBit address such trackers,
I use former closing tabs & latter when I close Pale Moon.

I wonder if UB Origin or NoScript address them beforehand...

~~~
severine
> _I wonder if UB Origin or NoScript address them beforehand..._

It's not their main mission, I think... Some info:

\- uBlock Origin:
[https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/827](https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/issues/827)

\- NoScript:
[https://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22532&p=...](https://forums.informaction.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22532&p=86435&hilit=cookies#p86435)

------
severine
I'm a heavy user of live bookmarks. Best way to check headlines or blog
updates quickly.

It's sad to see it go, but I'm sure an extension (hi, dh-g!) will surface, and
the situation for fans of the feature will remain the same or even better in
the end.

Still the best browser for the savvy user.

------
jeffbax
I don't think browsers make the best feed readers, but it'd be nice if they at
least offered a button to detect them by default. I guess its fine to want an
extension to do that, but anything that gives RSS more visibility is a win to
me, even if its best consumed in a different app.

~~~
severine
> a button to detect them by default

[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/awesome-
rss/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/awesome-rss/)

~~~
genericid
> by default

------
nuclearburrito
In my mind, this is a good thing. Browsers should do one thing well. They
should support the standards, but not be everything but the kitchen sink. I
don't want Pocket, which is what I think they are trying to drive people
towards. I've disabled it under about:config. I want a browser. More and more,
I find myself using uzbl-tabbed under Arch Linux because it does one thing
well. I use Mozilla now for multimedia and that's about it. My bank also balks
at uzbl-tabbed. As a *nix guy for three decades, I simply cannot escape the
"do one thing well" paradigm. It just simply works.

~~~
WalterGR
> In my mind, this is a good thing. Browsers should do one thing well. ... As
> a *nix guy for three decades, I simply cannot escape the "do one thing well"
> paradigm.

As with every tool, what counts as that “one thing” is entirely subjective, in
the eye of the beholder, highly personal, often arbitrary.

Why should Firefox support tabs? Shouldn’t my window manager do that? Why does
a browser keep track of history when my operating environment should keep
track of a history of things I’ve seen recently - documents, files, URLs?

It’s the exact same debate about whether programs should do any of the things
that can be handled by tmux / GNU screen / readline / whatever.

For you, the “one thing” browsers should do maps exactly to what you think
counts as “one thing.” To others, that might include Firefox’s RSS support,
and leave out something you consider essential, calling it “bloat” and against
the spirit of Unix.

~~~
drdaeman
> Why should Firefox support tabs? Shouldn’t my window manager do that?

You're close to enlightenment. ;)

There should be a renderer, there should be a network engine, there should be
a persistent storage, a secret storage keyring, a history tracker, etc - and
they all should be small separate programs, talking common protocols, easily
replaceable.

Non-interoperable giant monoliths are why we can't have nice things anymore
and have to stick with whatever large companies can provide us at their own
discretion. Because it's incredibly hard to patch that behemoth and even less
so to maintain the patchset. That would be possible again if there'd be a
plethora of small programs, each doing its own single thing and not trying to
be everything and a kitchen sink.

~~~
gwenzek
I'd love to be able to have only one tab bar across all my applications.
Probably a Tree Style Bar though.

------
bennyp101
I actually use this feature quite a bit, I have various sites (HN included) in
my toolbar so it makes it nice and easy to have a quick look and see if there
is something interesting.

Hopefully there will be a nice simple replacement extension (or maybe it will
give me a chance to make something myself!)

~~~
alyandon
I use this feature for about a dozen or so sites with RSS feeds. It's nice to
have essentially a dynamic bookmark that refreshes periodically to directly
access articles and I'm saddened to see that this feature is going away.

------
dwheeler
I'm concerned about this, because its removal makes it harder for basic users
to use RSS/Atom. The web has become unreasonably centralized, and feed readers
+ RSS is tool that enables the web to be more decentralized. Yes, some people
can install a separate reader, but many can't, and Feedly (etc.) provide more
features than some people need. Some people really do need only the basics.

------
breput
FWIW, there is a very nice sidebar-based Firefox RSS add-on called Drop Feeds
- [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/drop-
feeds/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/drop-feeds/)

It is very similar to the pre-WebExtensions Sage/SageToo/Sage++ add-ons.

------
nachtigall
I am a big fan of RSS feeds but have never used the built-in reader, but the
add-on brief. Highly recommended to follows blogs, reddit or any kind of
forum:

[https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/brief/](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
US/firefox/addon/brief/)

------
pmlnr
They could have done this when they got rid of the RSS icon in the URL bar.

~~~
Vinnl
They didn't get rid of it, they just removed it from the interface by default.

Now they're getting rid of it, i.e. you can't simply add it to the button back
in. But of course, there will probably be an extension that does that.

~~~
yborg
>there will probably be an extension that does that

And then another draconian compatibility-breaking change to the extensions
APIs will permanently disable said extension a year later...

~~~
Vinnl
The good news is that Firefox somewhat recently switched to a proper API (i.e.
WebExtensions), which should prevent that from happening.

But I guess you're probably sour from WebExtensions being introduced in the
first place. Which I can understand, because it did lead to many extensions no
longer working. Still, it should lead to that problem being one of the past.

------
megous
Also removed in the next version is The Developer Toolbar (accessed with
Shift+F2).

Another thing I never used or knew existed. :)

~~~
lakechfoma
edit: apparently the exit _menu option_ cleanly closes all windows...woops.

I only use this to restart the browser cleanly when I have multiple windows
open.

I use the "restore tabs/windows from last time" option and I don't see how
else to close/restart ALL windows natively within FF. Guess I'll go back to
killing it.

~~~
bscphil
Funny, I used to have an extension for restarting the browser, but those all
broke when they left XUL behind. I care enough about it that I'm patching and
building myself to get a restart button (and some other stuff).

------
tlynchpin
As a long time Mozilla user, I recently found Waterfox[1] and it is terrific!
I found out about it here on HN so here I am spreading the Good News.

[1]: [https://www.waterfoxproject.org/](https://www.waterfoxproject.org/)

------
simion314
I see many recommending extensions but IMO is a good idea to minimize the
number of extensions you use, if it was a Mozilla or other trustworthy entity
behind the extension then it should be safer to install it.

~~~
severine
But wasn't one of the points of the move to Web Extensions/API
redesign/enhanced Mozilla review process, that extensions would be more
trustworthy?

~~~
simion314
Yeah, maybe but I don't think you can 100% trust extensions, an extension can
read all the content on your pages, they can do network calls so it is always
a risk.

------
romdev
It's hard to imagine using a stripped down browser-based feed reader after
using an excellent dedicated application like NewsBlur. Did FireFox
synchronize your read stories across devices?

------
rauhl
I’m pretty sad to see it go, although to be honest I’ve been using elfeed for
awhile now. I wish that the promise of RSS & the open web had been fulfilled.

------
WhyNotHugo
I've moved to using rss2email YEARS ago.

The basic idea is that RSS gets polled, and you get an email for new entries.

Your email client handles read/unread status, has labels/filtering, and can
keep stuff in sync across devices. Plus, you've like A MILLION clients to
choose from.

I run this as a cron script, but I'm pretty sure there's very cheap services
out there that do the same (if not, here's a good business idea).

------
onli
I hope feed rendering will still work. Live bookmarks where a bit cumbersome
anyway, but feeds should still be properly rendered. They are an important
part of the web.

Maybe this cleanup can be used to bring back the rss icon in the url bar and
to link it with a better way to subscribe to feeds in a web based rss reader?

------
smileypete
Still on Firefox 55 because I love the LiveClick RSS addon which didn't
survive the switch to WebExtensions.

More and more I'm using AutoIt to provide extra features instead of a
collection of addons, so I'm thinking doing the same for LiveClick.

------
a3n
I use it to keep track of my pinboard tags, each of which has an associated
RSS feed.

------
JohnTHaller
Could they, perhaps, leave the indication of a feed being available for a
given site as an optional component of the UI with the ability to pass to
things like Feedly? I find it very useful.

~~~
severine
I'm reading this as ending support for live bookmarks and feed preview, but
not necessarily for the "open with" feature in Preferences > General >
Applications that lets you pick a reader; just that Live Boomarks wouldn't be
one option

Anyone knows for sure?

~~~
bscphil
I expect this to still work, but I think GP and I want the "subscribe to this
page" button to still work, and send the rss link to the user's third party
reader. It's nice to have rss links open in the right app, but there are a ton
of sites that don't have an obvious rss link on the page, but it's embedded in
the html because of the spec.

~~~
severine
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17622254](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17622254)

------
fusiongyro
I found this feature perplexing even when I did use RSS.

------
infinityplus1
It's the first thing I use whenever I open Firefox since years. Feeling sad
about it

------
manicdee
I love following these "RSS is dead" discussions from my RSS feed reader.

------
ccnafr
It's not really such a big deal. Everyone uses dedicated feed readers
nowadays. Feedly mainly.

~~~
ridgewell
More than anything, I think it was just a nice to have feature. Not many
people were really using it as a dedicated RSS reader, but if you ever just
wanted to extract an MP3 from a podcast or get an overview of what a blog was
writing recently (if there wasn't an easy way of accessing that), it came in
handy.

