
Ask HN: Sierra macOS 4gb download without confirmation, is this acceptable? - jasonm23
I tethered my mac for a skype call a week or so ago, and when I was done my cell data usage had jumped 4.7gb or more...<p>This blew my cell data quota for the month. I wasn&#x27;t possible that a skype call could have taken so much data, even a long one.<p>I didn&#x27;t have time to investigate the cause I was just irritated, and assumed maybe OSX had installed a patch to El Capitan, which is annoying enough.  While I&#x27;d prefer to be notified for each of these downloads, I know I&#x27;d opted in for this and I&#x27;d be warned this time to make sure I had it switched off.<p>Today, I figured I&#x27;d try Sierra, and of course, it was the full OS installer that had been downloaded on my cell, the date and time and size all matched.<p>I am sure the definition of &quot;Update&quot; could be twisted here, but holy expletives, this is a royal pain.<p>I wonder what HN thinks about this? Do we accept that a full OS update should be part of the standard opt in for &quot;app store updates&quot;?<p>Obviously for my case, it was a problem.
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BjoernKW
Yes, that's the expected behaviour if you activate automatic downloads. That
said, what I find annoying is that every minor Apple OS update, iOS and macOS
alike, from the download size at least seems to include the entire OS again.
Minor updates should be incremental.

I suppose Windows isn't any different. Linux on the other hand is much more
frugal in terms of individual upgrade download sizes because the actual OS is
just the kernel while the rest of the software can be updated independently.

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ksec
Same with iOS Apps. Apple doesn't seems to care about their bandwidth
transfer.

May be there is a reason behind this. I would love to know why.

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Tempest1981
Is that true? Read the last paragraph here:

[https://developer.apple.com/library/content/qa/qa1779/_index...](https://developer.apple.com/library/content/qa/qa1779/_index.html)

"For devices running iOS 7.1 and later, the update package may include only
the differences between the old and new versions of a changed file instead of
the full file. This may significantly reduce the size of the update package in
the case where only a small part of a large file changes"

(Not sure why it says "may")

~~~
ksec
That is the iOS itself. Not Apps. You have to download 150MB everytime there
is an Facebook update.

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rikkus
W10 lets you flag a wifi network as metered so that it knows not to transfer
as much over it. Seems OS X could do with the same- or is there perhaps some
non-obvious setting already perhaps?

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slhck
I think this is absolutely acceptable. Automatic updates are generally useful.
I guess the only aspect to improve from a usability perspective would be
making users aware of the fact that something is being downloaded in the
background – think of app updates in iOS with the pie chart animation on the
app icon. There could be a similar notification in macOS's menu bar.

The real problem, obviously, is that the OS itself does not know if it is
tethered to a data-capped mobile connection or an unlimited fixed line. If
operating systems (both on mobile and desktop computers) were built to handle
the first case, the user would have an option to stop any background activity
or app updates. Like a “data-capped mode” for the entire OS.

I frequently use my mobile (with limited data) to give Internet access to
friends who come from abroad and therefore have no data roaming enabled. Of
course, once these mobiles see they're on WiFi, they assume they can download
app updates. With LTE, it's easy enough to burn through a lot of data in no
time.

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jasonm23
Had I been answering the post myself, I'd say something similar.

I think it's simply the fact I got directly impacted that I feel differently.

That said, it's still 50/50 for me, but full OS upgrade downloads are not a
simple update, and I think they should be a different opt in class.

The main reason is because these are not auto applied like a regular update,
and the payload is in a different realm altogether.

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mattkrea
If you are tethering it is on you to monitor your usage

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Hydraulix989
I disagree, but playing along with that, how would you recommend users doing
this? How do you monitor your usage while tethering? Have you ever caught
something?

Users shouldn't have to worry about unattended OS downloads like this one
happening without their permission or awareness.

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tnone
Install iStat menus, watch the download bandwidth gauge, look at per process
bandwidth in the drop down when it is unexpectedly high.

A computer without a network bandwidth display is like a car without a
speedometer. I wish all OSes had this, would cut down on people's mystery wifi
complaints.

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Hydraulix989
A bunch of (ostensibly "meaningless" to non-techie) gauges would be too
confusing for most people.

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damm
So go into Settings, then App Store pref panel and uncheck Download newly
available updates in the background.

As far as opt-in or opt-out; we seem to be in the always on era... where
computers and devices always assume it's up

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ahoka
Well, on Windows 10 it's disabled by default to download updates over metered
connections. I'm not sure about how accurately can it detect tethering, but
theres a manual check box.

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Kanakaberaka
I think its bad, but its up for consideration. Fact. It will be. The way the
market is moving, Apple/Microsoft - benefit best if they can move all users in
a tide of upgrades - We are being conditioned - to accept software as a
service - and even Operating Systems as a service. To do it, you have to be
able to control the update/install cycle on the machine. We're close. When we
are completely tethered, then on the heels of a Whiz Bang introduction, we
will be told that all machines 'can only' (a nice way of saying must) - run an
os issued today. Once we've gotten accustomed to that. Then we will be given
the option to subscribe (pay) to the operating system, or have our devices no
longer work.

The 'all' update - has to be a part of this process - similar events are
happening with Win10 - its not mandatory, but it's very passive aggressive
forceful. Why? the next business milestone depends on being able to move the
customers to the next OS. (and then the next).

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tedmiston
Mine doesn't auto download OS updates. It only sends a push notification which
can be dismissed with remind me tomorrow.

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jasonm23
To clarify this was an OS Upgrade. If it was an update, I wouldn't be
surprised at all.

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tedmiston
OS update vs upgrade — not sure if there's a difference but I'm also referring
to the ~4 GB macOS Sierra installer.

