
Apple says recent Wikileaks CIA docs detail old, fixed iPhone and Mac exploits - gerosan
https://techcrunch.com/2017/03/23/apple-says-recent-wikileaks-cia-docs-detail-old-fixed-iphone-and-mac-exploits/
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tptacek
If you're not familiar with the iPhone platform and you're interested in just
one technical detail to help navigate these stories, let it be this: the
iPhone 3G platform bears very little resemblance to the modern, post-touch-ID
phone. The platform security system at every level, from boot chain to
hardware domains to OS security, evolved more in the last 10 years than any
previous platform had in 20 years prior.

That doesn't make an iPhone 7 impregnable, but it should inform any analysis
you do of stories about phones being tampered with "starting in 2008"; that's
a little like talking about SMTP server security "starting in 1993".

~~~
throwaway7312
As an iPhone 3G user who spends a lot of time bouncing between countries, this
makes me think I should upgrade to something more recent the next time I'm
headed anywhere there's a risk customs may inspect my devices.

~~~
mastax
Will that help? There have been many stories (some posted on HN) of customs
saying "unlock your phone or be detained indefinitely".

~~~
daenney
Unless you have to, leave your fancy device at home and bring a dumb(er)
travel phone with you that only contains the information you need for that
trip. And there's nothing stopping you from loading more information on it
after you've made it through customs.

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sohkamyung
Yes, it is an old exploit. This ArsTechnica article [1] has more on the
timeline

[1] [https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/03/new-wikileaks-
dump-...](https://arstechnica.com/security/2017/03/new-wikileaks-dump-the-cia-
built-thunderbolt-exploit-implants-to-target-macs/)

------
chillaxtian
if you're interested in how iOS security works, apple publishes white papers
on the subject.

[https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf](https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf)

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doggydogs94
The CIA exploits are important because most people never update anything. It
doesn't matter if you have fixed the OS for the exploit if the fix is never
installed.

~~~
leadingthenet
Thankfully, Apple is pretty proactive about getting people on the latest
version of the OS. IIRC, iOS 10 runs on over 80% of devices now.

~~~
doggydogs94
People still have to actually run the update. Most non-tech types I know,
never ever run software updates.

~~~
notatoad
according to actual data rather than anecdote, iOS 10 is installed on ~80% of
devices, and only 5% have something older than iOS 9.

[https://developer.apple.com/support/app-
store/](https://developer.apple.com/support/app-store/)

~~~
imron
I am the 5%!

~~~
nkristoffersen
the hackable 5% :-)

~~~
cookiecaper
Some people stay on old versions of stuff specifically for that reason. The
wait for exploits that give the user root access to his own property can be
excruciating!

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throwmesomeseo
Keep in mind, not everyone has the newest shiny iPhone7 in the world. The HN
crowd probably is not representing the average iPhone user.

~~~
denzil_correa
So, who is the average iPhone user? What percentage of iPhone users could the
CIA docs exploit be applied to?

~~~
mattcoles
I think almost none is the answer seeing as this vulnerability only affects
iPhone 3G users.

~~~
jrbaldwin
I know of three people who use iPhone 3G as their alternate phone when the
other battery dies and/or international phone when traveling.

The phones don't just go away, they're get passed down.

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tyingq
I wonder how old the leaked CIA docs are though. Are there any contextual
clues that it's current?

Someone might have sat on a copy for years before leaking.

Edit: Quick scan shows there are some docs with dates in 2013, 2014, 2015. So
at least some of it is fairly recent. No real way to tell, though, if it was
all pulled at once, assembled over time, etc.

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kyleblarson
Apple fixed those particular exploits, yes.

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freshyill
If there were ever any doubt that Wikileaks is a bad actor, let this be the
proof.

Regardless of the fact that this is a patched, nearly decade-old exploit,
they're trying to make a scene rather than go through ethical channels.

~~~
sneak
Your assertion that full disclosure is unethical will require some
substantiation for us to believe it.

I am wary of anyone who claims that giving me access to raw source material is
not acting in my best interests.

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pfarnsworth
CIA must have a bunch of embedded workers at Apple, Google, etc all adding
subtle bugs that can later be used to hack the devices and services. I imagine
other intelligence agencies must have them too. If they don't, then they're
not doing their job.

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _If they don 't, then they're not doing their job_

The CIA, which has limited domestic authority, compromising American
companies' products is not only not their job, but also illegal.

~~~
wruza
If they have done everything legal, would wikileaks exist?

~~~
JumpCrisscross
> _If they have done everything legal_ [ _sic_ ]

I never said the CIA always conducts itself legally. My point was that "their
job" is defined by the law. CIA agents infiltrating American manufacturers to
break their products, even if intended for foreign customers, is illegal and
thus not "their job".

> _would wikileaks exist_

If I understand correctly, you're saying Wikileaks' existence is proof of the
CIA's impropriety? That assumes anything secret is illegal. Not true.
Classified information is legal [1].

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States)

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kevindong
> Based on our initial analysis, the alleged iPhone vulnerability affected
> iPhone 3G only and was fixed in 2009 when iPhone 3GS was released.

"fixed" probably isn't the right word.

~~~
abiox
what is?

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UpDownLeftRight
This is the same Apple that has maintained on their website that their OS is
"secure by design" and no additional security steps are needed.

See
[http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22secure+by+design%22+site...](http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=%22secure+by+design%22+site%3aapple.com&d=5011627184166823&mkt=en-
US&setlang=en-US&w=Xmhyb2VI15fnBjltF7miMeCVnoX2utCg)

~~~
zepto
It is

