
SpaceX Jason-3 Live Webcast - nerdy
http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
======
jcurbo
Of course Murphy's Law is in full effect, as the video on the drone ship cuts
out right before the first stage lands.

On another note, I really like the orbital animation they're using, it reminds
me of Kerbal Space Program. The ballistic arc turning into an orbit is a
really good visualization for laypeople, I think.

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vanattab
They are saying over at r/spacex that it crashed on landing

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vanattab
I love this comment from over at r/spaceX

"Schrodinger's rocket: simultaneously landed and not landed at the same time."
\- retiringonmars

Edit: someone opened the box...it crashed Edit2: What's up with the downvotes?
Are you not supposed to re-post a quote?

~~~
grecy
also this:
[https://twitter.com/underyx/status/688798317770354695](https://twitter.com/underyx/status/688798317770354695)

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grecy
From webcast just now: - Landing was on target - hard landing - landing leg
broke - not standing upright.

footage later (in a few hours)

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ChuckMcM
After watching the Florida landing a number of times, and taking into account
that this maneuver is made more difficult by the fact that at its lowest
thrust setting just one engine has more thrust than the booster weighs, trying
to reach 0,0 velocity at a point and time, where the point is moving (the
platform is rising and sinking in the swells) is likely not possible.

As I understand it, deep sea oil drilling platforms provide stability by using
a very large "keel" under the platform with air pumps to keep the overall
displacement relatively constant so that the platform's position relative to
the drill is maintained (the drill being in the sea bed). The SeaLaunch
vehicle that Boeing built has similar sorts of compensation strategies.

And that is a problem in that if you have to recover to land, you limit the
missions where you can recover and that will impact the bonus of recoverable
stages.

One wonders if there is some way to adapt a technique the Navy uses for
landing helicopters in rough seas, where the helicopter "hooks" the deck and
then applies a net positive collective to hold that line under tension, then
the line is winched in bringing the helicopter down to the deck. Meanwhile the
helicopter has matched the pitching of the deck because it is pulling against
the tether at that point. A very complex system and I cannot fathom the
challenge of building something like that on an autonomous landing barge.

~~~
ufmace
Got any videos of that Navy technique? Can't say I've heard of it, and a few
minutes of Youtube searches don't find anything. I have been in helicopters
landing on ships at sea, though not in rough seas, and they didn't do anything
particularly special. The helicopters did have landing gear with suspension
and shock absorbers, though. I wonder how much shock absorption capability the
F9 landing legs have, and if they can add in some more.

~~~
ChuckMcM
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbm2XDpx9w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbm2XDpx9w)

The video above shows the technique being practiced. I actually saw it as part
of a show on small helicarriers that the Marines use, probably the show
"Firepower" or "Wings" there was a period of time when I was researching
military equipment in support of an RTS game design and I went through hours
of documentary type shows to understand the capabilities around modern (late
20th century) weaponry.

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jacquesm
Does anybody know why they would re-try the barge thing when they've already
got a once-proven way of landing on a pad? What is the benefit of being able
to land on a barge? (which to me seems to be a _lot_ harder than landing on
land, after all, now you have two craft to coordinate, one of which is only
nominally under your control (lat, long, the rest is very much subject to
change due to the action of the ocean).

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colechristensen
Depending on the target orbit, it is often simply not possible to propel the
first stage back to dry land. Today's Vandenberg launch into polar orbit was
just that.

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wolf550e
They said during prelaunch news conference that for this mission, falcon 9 had
plenty of oomph to get the first stage back to the pad (payload mass is low),
but couldn't because of environmental assessment not being ready.

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colechristensen
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/688844190826942465](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/688844190826942465)

"Ship landings are not needed for flexibility or to save fuel costs. Just not
physically possible to return to launch site" \- @elonmusk

One party or another has the wrong information _shrug_.

~~~
wolf550e
Elon Musk explained why they need drone ship landings at all, once they have
proved they can land on land: because some missions require landing downrange.

I explained that Hans Koenigsmann said 27 minutes 57 seconds into NASA's
Jason-3 prelaunch new conference that they have to try to land the Jason-3
booster on drone ship instead of land because they don't have environmental
approval at this time for Vandenberg AFB in Califiornia.

~~~
wolf550e
[https://youtu.be/Set_IES7VZE?t=1672](https://youtu.be/Set_IES7VZE?t=1672)

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castratikron
A leg broke while it was landing on the barge.

[https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/688799901463883776](https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/688799901463883776)

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zackboe
YouTube link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivdKRJzl6y0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivdKRJzl6y0)

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nerdy
There are two YouTube links, from the SpaceX page:

SpaceX webcast will go live here and on YouTube at about 1:15pm ET/10:15am PT.
For our full hosted webcast, use this link
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivdKRJzl6y0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivdKRJzl6y0)
For views of rocket, launch countdown audio and telemetry info, use this link:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkz_lclGXNg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkz_lclGXNg)

~~~
harshreality
The spacex.com video page uses livestream which seems to require flash for
desktop browsers.

Easiest fix would probably be to embed the youtube video instead.

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vanattab
video locked up right before landing....

~~~
51Cards
I'm thinking there may have been a video delay and it locked up because the
landing might not have gone well. i.e. Taken out the video hardware. Just a
guess... hoping to be wrong.

~~~
ufmace
My more conspiracy-minded thoughts have wondered about this. Yeah, it's
probably a satellite connection and they can be flaky, especially at sea, but
isn't it awfully convenient that the feed cut off mere moments before a bad
landing? SpaceX PR is quite good indeed...

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mikeash
They've put out videos of past landing failures. No reason to think they'd be
shy about this one.

~~~
mikeash
And here it is:

[https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqirNbwEc0/](https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqirNbwEc0/)

It's pretty amazing, and a bit sad. They landed perfectly, and then the bad
leg collapsed after.

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heraclez
What does it mean that a leg broke? Correct me if I'm wrong cause I'm no
expert, but I'd assume that there'd be some 'emergency' backup legs to address
this kind of event?

What does "not upright" mean? Did it crash? Or is it simply in limbo, leaning,
at an x degree angle?

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atroyn
Every extra part is extra weight, needing extra fuel, which in turn needs
extra-extra-fuel because of the weight of that new fuel, and so on. There is
very little redundancy on a rocket.

It's unknown what exactly 'not upright' means just yet.

~~~
heraclez
Fair enough, how about some robotic arms on the drone ship ?

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atroyn
Now you have two problems. But I wonder if something much simpler, like a net,
wouldn't make more sense. As soon as the rocket touches down, the net extents
and wraps the rocket, keeping it upright.

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heraclez
What would be the two problems?

How would you envision the net though? A net does sound simpler but I have a
hard time picturing it

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atroyn
Robot arms are a complex control problem all on their own. To catch the rocket
they'd have to be very fast, and very precise. At the same time, the rocket's
control loops already have only a very small margin for error. A small miss by
either system and you have a much higher chance of failure.

In terms of a net, I imagine something that's lying on the deck under tension
between four bendy rods. When the rocket is close enough, the rods snap over
to the other side, furling the rocket in the net and holding it more or less
steady.

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lutorm
In case someone comes back: Video of landing and leg failure:
[https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqirNbwEc0/](https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqirNbwEc0/)

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nerdy
Liftoff still 15-20 minutes out.

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nerdy
It'll be back on in ~40 mins after coast phase for spacecraft separation.

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arbabu
Did you mean the landing will happen after ~40 mins?

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harshreality
No, boostback and (attempted) landing was ~10 mins.

GP is in reference to the polar orbit insertion burn for the stage that's in
orbit.

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grecy
Edit: Not sure now

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sly_foxx
What is the point of this company? What benefits do I get from government
spending my cash on the company? None.

If I want Mars experience, then I'll go to some shitty place in Nevada, which
is much cheaper + human body is accustomed to Earth. I really don't get the
fascination with SpaceX.

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heraclez
This is u: [https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c6/22/62/c6226219c...](https://s-media-cache-
ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c6/22/62/c6226219cf75186c90c7e025c42e1eef.jpg)

