
A Symbol Neo-Nazis Use to Target Jews Online - cjlm
https://mic.com/articles/144228/echoes-exposed-the-secret-symbol-neo-nazis-use-to-target-jews-online#.Uqsk9ObKl
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personjerry
Please excuse my naïveté, and I do not share the opinions of the neo-nazis,
but isn't it part of free speech to able to use these symbols and to be
prejudiced?

Edit: My follow-up question: Why then is it Twitter's responsibility to censor
such speech?

~~~
josephpmay
There's a difference between free speech and harassment. It's perfectly legal
to use the echo in a Tweet. What's not legal (or at least isn't allowed on
most social media platforms) is using the echo to call people to harass and
threat a specific person.

For example, it's legal to say/tweet "Bob Smith is a little bitch"

It's not legal to send Bob Smith 50 messages telling him he's a little bitch
and threatening to murder his family

~~~
orik

        > What's not... allowed... is using the echo to call people to harass and threat a specific person.
    

Wouldn't the layman interpret all 'echo's as a call to action? Do you hold one
user accountable for drawing attention to a user who is now receiving messages
from third parties?

~~~
yoshuaw
> Do you hold one user accountable for drawing attention to a user who is now
> receiving messages from third parties

Inciting violence against a person makes you responsible for the violence that
follows; let's not pretend this is something different - it's not.

~~~
JimLaheyMD
Internet messages are violence now?

~~~
DanBC
You might want to re-read your dictionary. Violence has included non-physical
force for very many years, very much longer than the Internet has been in
existence.

[http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/youthviolence/definiti...](http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/youthviolence/definitions.html)

> Interpersonal violence is defined as "the intentional use of physical force
> or power, threatened or actual, against another person or against a group or
> community that results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury,
> death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation."

[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/16](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/16)

> The term “crime of violence” means—

> (a) an offense that has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened
> use of physical force against the person or prop­erty of another, or

Threats of violence are by definition violence.

~~~
michaelbuddy
Threats that might seem credible are a far cry from saying bad things about
someone, to them or to someone else.

~~~
DanBC
You don't seem to understand that threats of violence are what we're talking
about. Do you really not understand that saying you're going to rape someone
is a threat of violence?

The article says:

> Other Jewish writers have faced more serious attacks: death threats, anti-
> Semitic cartoons, images of concentration camp ovens and executed Jews,
> threatening emails, even home phone calls.

> Michael received [...] Trolls threatened him: "'When the time comes, the
> Jews are going to be in trouble, lined up,'" Michael recalls. "That kind of
> tone. Random shit by people thinking it's funny Jews were being targeted."

~~~
michaelbuddy
you've certainly mentioned some strong examples. However, it's not the same as
real violence.

think of these two statements, jokes whatever you want to call it.

"what do you call a hundred thousand lawyers at the bottom of the ocean? A
good start" A joke we've all heard.

Now, same joke 'What do you call a hundred thousand Jews at the bottom of the
ocean? A good start.

Now which one is hate speech? Both? None? Should history be the only basis for
whether jokes are permitted or not? What about who delivers it and why?

I'm not asking you to really answer me here, but it's worth thinking about.
And I think platforms banning language simply will get it wrong. Human mods
will get it wrong, computer mods will get it wrong.

Again, I'm going to go to the platforms where speech is allowed because of the
nuance of humor, of conversation. And especially where personal experience is
valid even when it appears biased or hateful.

------
busterarm
A guy I went to high school with used to take a pause and say "Jewish" loudly
after any Jewish name he'd read/say.

Seriously. Fucking Catholic school.

~~~
vermontdevil
I imagined this with the voice of Wallace Shawn from Heaven Help Us for some
reason.

~~~
busterarm
Definitely spot on pick for the inflection, but not the tone.

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genericacct
Didn't ((())) use to mean "hugs" in 90s IM slang? How sweet of them.

~~~
busterarm
Sweet until you're hugged by internet tough-guy white supremacists.

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rdl
I wonder if there's a way to counter/reclaim this -- put your own name in
((()))?

~~~
gd1
Start coding in lisp

~~~
SwellJoe
I'm on to you. You're part of the Lispish Conspiracy.

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orik
When I first saw the ((( ))) meme, it was being used something along the lines
of (((triggered))), and I thought it was shorthand for a trigger warning.

Unfortunate to learn how it's used; I thought it was really clever at the
time.

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aftbit
Holy shit, I am constantly amazed that people like this know how to use
computers. Can we bring the internet back to being a technocratic meritocracy
with only people who share my biases and opinions, please?

~~~
dogma1138
Do you assume that coders can't be racist?

Some one makes and manages their websites heck white supremacists and other
extremist groups were one of the earliest adopters of the Internet because it
was a media that allowed them to speak freely.

You can't say kikes and niggers on TV you can't even say it on licensed radio
but on the internet you can call for all the gassing and cross burning you
want.

~~~
garrettgrimsley
It was sarcastic.

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javajosh
It occurs to me that the correct "punishment" for a hate crime is to force the
person to live in a loving, caring community of the hated group until one day
they break down and cry and want to hug and apologize to everyone in the
community.

EDIT: "I'm so sorry, I've been such a schmuck," the ex-neonazi tearfully
confesses as his pretty Jewish girlfriend hugs him and kisses him on the
cheek.

~~~
_audakel
as outlandish as this sounds, I could see it totally working

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CM30
So, what would happen if say, trolls read this and started using the symbol
around every random username in sight? Because that's exactly what some people
are gonna do after reading articles like this, and it makes me wonder what the
crossfire would inevitably look like.

Wouldn't this make a really easy target for the likes of 4chan?

~~~
unlinker
The Venn diagram of the AltRight and 4chan's /pol/ board (the only board that
would care about ((()))) is a circle inside of a circle so I don't think it
will make any difference.

~~~
busterarm
A () inside of a () inside of a ()?

You mean ((()))?

------
michaelbuddy
The only problem after this is somebody who gets criticized then pulls the
race/ethnic/religion card and suddenly we're all supposed to then set our
sights on ruining the life a person being critical, for whatever reason,
subjectively insulting or not. Then again who would EVER hide behind their so
called protected class, play victim to hurt others. Oh wait, It only happens
every day.

We even see it on here. Mods have a hard job, BUT they also are subjective
when it comes to who they claim is ranting off topic vs those making profound
points.

The founding fathers knew all of this quite well, which is why we have
"Congress shall make _no_ law ... abridging the freedom of speech"

Private companies can do all they want to make a safe space, but then we usher
in the era of the whirlpool of 'hurt feelings' == physical violence. Which
really just weakens people, it robs them of their own capability. And as a
result of this safe spaces are really just illusions. By trying to cleanse
they actually become impure.

Oh well. I'll be for whatever platform supplants the draconian ones. It will
be the selling points.

~~~
DanBC
> but then we usher in the era of the whirlpool of 'hurt feelings' == physical
> violence

Give me your work email address and I'll send you 800 death threats, including
pictures of your family and where they work / go to school, and pictures of
you arriving at or leaving your workplace, and then you can talk about whether
the discussion is actually about "hurt feelings = violence", or if it's
actually about the profound impact on your life some pathologic arsehole can
have.

Since you mention US constitution: this concept -- that actions can cause harm
even if they don't include physically hitting you -- has been written into US
law, and has resisted first amendment challenges.

> I'll be for whatever platform supplants the draconian ones.

Yet you're still here, a place that (you said) is even more restrictive than
twitter?

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DrScump
<Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites and white nationalists have begun using _three_ sets
of parentheses... "Hello _((Weisman))_ " it began after Weisman tweeted a
Washington Post article...>

Apparently, neither the alleged practitioners nor the media can differentiate
three from two.

------
yarou
I've actually not heard about this. It's a shame "alt-right" became synonymous
with bigot, white nationalist, etc.

The underlying political philosophy is sound, but for some reason the crowd it
attracts are essentially losers (in a very specific economic sense).

~~~
marcoperaza
Don't let the media get away with this. They're trying to pigeon-hole a whole
movement based on a small and loud minority. You rarely see this same
treatment of the left and the violent radical-left protesters that are a
permanent fixture at big Western events like G8 summits, party conventions,
etc. Or the massive web of leftist voices, on tumblr, Gawker, and even in
columns of "respectable" papers, that constantly make terrible sweeping
generalizations about men and white people.

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Bromskloss
Does this mean that I can use this to call upon a band of strangers to bully
(or whatever it is they do) someone of my choosing?

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mattnumbe
This article focuses a lot on how to search twitter for the echo which
probably won't help reduce harassment.

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masonic
BTW, does this mean that (((Jesus))) must be wrapped accordingly, too?

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carsongross
Lisp is anti-semitic.

Who knew?

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unlinker
Secret? I don't think it's secret anymore. I follow lots of white nationalists
and I have seen it for months already. This one was particularly funny,
although I don't know if it's fake or not.
[https://i.imgur.com/A6aJYs7.png](https://i.imgur.com/A6aJYs7.png)

What's also funny is how the article insists on ((())) being designed and
engineered by evil masterminds to be unsearchable, when it's just incidental.

~~~
mevile
> I follow lots of white nationalists

Why?

~~~
alexisnorman
I like that he deleted his comment that said "I am a white nationalist".

~~~
unlinker
I did, because people here can get pretty salty and I didn't want to "bite the
bait", but yes, now that you insist, I am one, and I am not ashamed of it.

~~~
untog
"people here can get pretty salty when I admit I am a white nationalist" is
probably the most positive thing I've heard anyone say about HN in years.

~~~
unlinker
I call it the San Francisco bubble. Fortunately, it's just a bubble. ;P

~~~
untog
Weird, I call it "the civilised world bubble".

But yeah, I know, silent majority and all that, right? There are dozens of
you. Dozens!

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return0
The only commentable thing in this blatant clickbait is that yianopoulos had
his verified sign taken back (!) for non-hate speech, an act for which he has
protested vehemently.

