
Remember the Vasa [pdf] - nikbackm
http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/docs/papers/2018/p0977r0.pdf
======
jepler
Sadly, C++11 (and C++03, really) is too complicated for a typical "ordinary
programmer" to grasp all the bits of it and how they potentially interrelate.
[source: I am posing as an "ordinary programmer" for the purposes of this
comment]

C++14, 17, and 20 do seem to add, as Bjarne says, "significant ... complexity"
to what has always been a daunting language. 150 experts--C++ experts, to be
sure, but also domain experts--all bringing new features that address their
personal itch for the language.

~~~
pjmlp
Other languages are complicated too.

Just compare Java 10, C# 7.3, Python 3.6, .... to their initial designs.

However I do agree with you and Bjarne, having also submitted this link awhile
ago.

C++20 should have been fixing what was left from C++17, specially regarding
concepts and modules.

Instead there are a plethora of other issues, and some of them it isn't even
clear what is coming with C++23.

------
Tomte
When you are in Stockholm, go visit the Vasamuseet!

I‘m not terribly keen on museums, but I visit it every single time.

The sheer amount of art on the ship is breathtaking.

And the story of the ship is more fascinating than the short excerpt here
shows.

~~~
ASalazarMX
Visited it two years ago. It is humbling to see a ship that size and beauty,
although partially restored, it speaks of its time.

For some reason I never made the correlation between overengineering and the
Vasa. I probably classified it subconsciously as a front-end issue.

------
gjvc
"We are on the path to something that could destroy C++. We must get off that
path!"

Bjarne has spoken, and his warning should be heeded.

------
jejones3141
I think the relevant idiom is "closing the stable door after the horse has
bolted".

~~~
signa11
this i.e.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B#Criticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B#Criticism)
is also pretty poignant

------
nixpulvis
I'm glad this is one of those posts that is repeatedly posted here. It speaks
to a trend across basically all industries these days, and to a more
philosophical origin. Growth and progress for the sake of growth and progress
is actually the opposite.

~~~
majewsky
Progress (even for the sake of progress) is good _if_ (huge _if_ ) you're
working with the correct definition of progress. I want more progress towards
perfection in the manner of the familiar quote: "Perfection is achieved not
when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take
away."

------
Exras
I wondered if this thread was about C++ since that is the only connection I
heard 'Remember the Vasa. It's from watching this: Scott Mayers - Why C++
Sails When the Vasa Sank
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltCgzYcpFUI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltCgzYcpFUI)
Full circle ?

