
Ask HN: Should I find a job or try to build a profitable project? - driven20
A little about me. I&#x27;m close to 30. I recently left my job, I was burnt out. I want to take 1-2 months for myself to reflect and figure out my next steps. I&#x27;m a software developer and I have been working with various small to medium software companies for the past 4-5 years. I currently live in a small city in the south (gf and I want to move to NYC or another big city). I can build CRUD apps from the ground up. I have around $60,000 saved and with my current bills, I have a runway of 1.5-2 years. My life goal is to build a successful business and entrepreneurship has been something I have always been interested in. However, I have never successfully built anything that gained traction, so I consider myself more of a wantrepreneur.<p>Options:<p>#1 Spend my time studying and finding a new job in NYC. I&#x27;m pretty confident that if I spend my time on leetCode and networking I will land a good job. I feel like this is the safe route.<p>#2 Spend my time pursuing a couple ideas I have. It&#x27;s nothing new or innovating, a productivity app and a yelp like service working with small businesses. Reading all the content here is super motivating and inspiring, I feel like I could make these ideas work, but it&#x27;s also super risky. I don&#x27;t want to spend 1-2 years working on these ideas only to look up and realized I wasted my time and money.<p>#3 Some combination of both? I was thinking that I can pursue my side projects and look for a new job at the same time. However, I feel like having a clear focus on one thing is important.
======
rubicon33
Similar boat to you. Had the exact same question in my life.

I decided for a totally different option, lets call it option #4:

#4 Take an "easy" programming job and use your spare time on nights/weekends
to build a software business.

I chose this option because I wasn't willing to risk my savings. Plain and
simple. I want to retire some day, and blowing 60k for a ~5% chance at making
a profitable business wasn't worth it to me.

~~~
gere
This is a sensible advice, but how do you recognize an easy programming job?

~~~
rubicon33
There are (at least) two ways in which a job can be "hard":

1) Technically. Having to constantly learn new things, new technologies, etc.
Unable to rest on your laurels. Learning new things can be very rewarding from
a career growth standpoint, but it can also leave you drained at the end of
the day.

\- Avoid a technically challenging job by choosing one which is in your
skillset, and unlikely to change. For instance, if Java is your thing, find a
back-end Java job at a big company (startups will often ask you to change
roles and learn new things).

2) People. Dealing with shitty bosses / managers / coworkers can suck the
"easy" out of a job and make it very challenging to get anything done.

\- Try to get a feel for the leadership in your interview process. The
interview should come off as warm, and inclusive, even you aren't doing well.
Overly complex questions, riddles, or hide-the-ball interview tactics
generally come from insecure interviewers.

------
gwbas1c
Been there, done that. Honestly, it depends on your life goals and
motivations. In my case, I tried starting a business for the wrong reasons,
and realized that I'd rather be an early employee in someone else's startup;
or be a co-founder in a very small team.

When I was single, a full time job and side projects were perfectly fine. Once
I met my wife, I didn't have a lot of time for side projects. The relationship
just took over my nights and weekends. Kids sap up most of the time now.

So, IMO:

#3 if you ever find yourself single again.

#2 before you have kids and a mortgage. This will only work if you have a good
business mind or a girlfriend who's willing to help you make ends meet. If she
really wants to start a family and be a full-time homemaker, it'll put a
bigger strain on your relationship than you realize.

And, honestly, there's nothing wrong with #1. After quitting my job when I was
28 and in a similar situation; then getting a job right before my 30th
birthday, what I can say is that carefully choosing your employer is the most
important career skill to have in your situation. It takes almost a decade
bouncing from jobs to know how to recognize (and stick with) a good situation,
how to recognize a bad situation in the interview.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with taking 1-2 months off between
jobs!

~~~
jammygit
What were the wrong reasons?

~~~
gwbas1c
Everyday I want to get up and have no employment obligation to anyone, and
work on whatever I feel is interesting to me at the moment.

I was under the illusion that I could be in that situation merely by founding
my own company.

The only way to really do that is to be financially independent, because once
someone is paying you to do something, you can't walk away when you get bored.

------
fouc
You could try doing something similar to Pieter Levels' "12 startups in 12
months". He only managed to get to 5-6 startups, but from that arose
nomadlist.com and remoteok.com where he's making $83k/mo now after 4 years
($10k from user subscriptions and the rest from paid ads/postings).

Forcing yourself to launch/ship a few products each within a month could be
good training to not get stuck in idea phase or coding phase, and focus on
getting it out. Then you can try judging how the responses are, maybe 1 will
take off and the rest won't.

If you're spending a longer time developing out an idea, it's hard to actually
know if the market wants it or not, unless you have actual real paying
customers. So for example that yelp idea you should be aiming to have paid
customers within 3 months anyways.. reduce risk by making the right moves, not
hoping that you might have paid customers 1-2 years later.

~~~
davidjnelson
I like this a lot. Tools, tricks and shortcuts to reduce experiment cycle time
are invaluable. Not aware of existing tools that do a great job of this
though, especially for novel, non-trivial use cases.

------
zaqwsxcde12
Take that 60K, go travel the world, it will go a long long way if you are
thrifty about it. See how you feel about your project when you come back or
work on it while traveling. Bet you will feel different whether your projects
survives or not. Ignore all this you need to buy a house garbage, do you want
to spend your life investing for your retirement, for when your dick wont work
or live now, that is the question. If you are disciplined enough to save 60K,
that already makes you an exception to most Americans. You will be fine. You
have the rest of your life to slave away and pay a mortgage, go see the world
and see how your view and your priorities will change. Being exposed to many
different environments and situations will definitely improve your life and
your mindset for the long term. You will experience things and situations
which you cannot possibly encounter while putting money into a 401K at a job
or slaving away paying for an inflated house price wherever your live. Go live
and stop chasing 9/10 startup ideas that actually really fail. If you do want
to go the startup route. Don't risk your savings on it, risk an investors
money.

~~~
accrual
This comment resonates with me. Is there a good resource for packing up your
life and traveling for a while?

Background: I have a great and interesting remote job but the workload is high
relative to the salary. I have 1 years salary saved. I could ask for a raise,
but I would much rather spend a year traveling and improving myself.

~~~
cldellow
Any specific questions? My email is in my profile if you prefer thst.

I'm currently on a five month break with my wife. The first two months were in
an apartment in the south of France, currently hiking though Loch Lomond and
then a couple months in Edinburgh.

It's pretty good! Probably shouldn't have waited 10 years to do this.

~~~
MH15
A break from your wife or with your wife?

------
ecesena
You left your job because you were burnt out. I think you should also ask
yourself what happens if you start your own project and get burnt out again
before making any decision, and/or what can you do next time (either with
another job or your own project) to avoid burn out.

In your shoes, I'd first get a job, possibly more sustainable than your
previous one. Then I'd start working on my side project trying to make a
second income stream. BTW, startup school is starting soon, you should
definitely join in and test yourself for 10 weeks.

~~~
driven20
I feel the reason for burn out was because I was working on something I don't
care about. I don't necessarily think the work was extremely demanding or
anything. The problem was forcing myself to work on something I don't find
meaning in.

Yeah, for my next job. I'm definitely gonna search for a company that has a
mission I believe in.

------
throw51319
I live in NYC now. If I were you, I'd look for jobs now. Get one lined up or
just have a good idea of what it takes to get one. Go for a corporate IT job
that is 6 figs and an easy 9-5. Then I'd ask to postpone it, go on a relaxing
trip with or without your gf for 1-3 months. Think about life.

Get back, move into a cheap shared studio or 1br with your gf. Work on your
stuff after 5:30 and still bank money, and still live in the city. Boom.

------
jf22
With your runway, #2 sounds great, but try and find a different idea.

Productivity apps and yelp like services are a dime a dozen.

You'll probably waste 1-2 years, and expect to waste 3-5 more before you can
replace your main source of income.

Entrepreneurship is risky and developing software is the easy part.

~~~
driven20
Yea, I'm not sure they are great ideas. My reasoning for the productivity app
is because I want to build something I personally need and I haven't found a
good solution. The yelp-like app is because I know I want to work with small
businesses. I just don't know exactly how yet.

So, you're right. I need to spend more time on my ideas. Thanks!

~~~
nathan11
Be careful with the "build X for small businesses". It's deceptive to look
around at small businesses, see them using bad tools and think there's
opportunity there. The truth is there's usually a reason--the small businesses
aren't willing to pay for better.

~~~
mattmanser
It's hard to find them too, it's better to build something where they come
looking for you.

------
takanori
Before you write a line of code for #2, have a clear strategy for app
distribution, user acquisition, free to paid conversion. It won’t just happen
because you have a great product. Just remember to make a million a year, you
need 10,000 people paying you $10 a month.

~~~
rognjen
I don't entirely agree with this. I think it's useful to build a proof of
concept even without any follow-up plans or objectives.

Besides the fact that it'll be easier to visualize and present the idea to
people, the act of building a proof of concept or a real MVP would be learning
experiences themselves.

In fact thinking about what's to be included as part of the MVP and
prioritizing to fit within a pre-set deadline would be extremely valuable.

~~~
JamesBarney
Building a proof of concept is an incredibly expensive way to figure out what
clients want. And many times you find out you're so far off that none of the
project is reusable.

Also plenty of clients will take meeting without an proof of concept. And this
is especially true when you have a really good idea.

~~~
jlelonm
What is the better way to figure out what clients want? Conversations?

~~~
JamesBarney
Yeah it takes a lot less time to have a conversation than to build an app.

Makings the cold calls and cold emails felt a lot easier with an app built but
at least in my experience didn't make a big difference in response rate.

------
andrewstuart
I think "runway" (i.e. your personal savings) is a terrible idea that should
be debunked and dropped by the entrepreneurial community.

You don't have runway - you have the savings to buy a house, or form the
foundation for the next stage of your life.

If you build your business whilst you have a source of income then you have
infinite runway - you can keep trying until your dying day or you give up.

It's only _after_ you've tried to build your social network for dogs and
failed that you look back and say "wow, that $120,000 was actually ALOT of
money - it's going to take me years to make that again". AND now you don't
have money to build your next great idea - Uber for petwalking.

Using your savings as "runway" is just gambling with unlikely odds.

Any "runway" that can keep you going for a year in a modern western city is
ALOT of money - you're really undervaluing that money if you use it just to
live whilst creating a business. And you're also assuming that you're going to
be able to make that same amount of money just as easily another time - that
may or may not be true at all.

~~~
quickthrower2
I’m working and doing a side project and there are some more advantages:

I work as a web dev. I can legitimately learn on the job. That learning then
benefits the side project. Example: typescript, shell, k8s, css etc.

I have less time on the side project so there is less fluffing. No docs, no
unit tests, no Haskell, just getting it done with what I am proficient at.
This might ironically mean I get more done than if I was full time as I’d be
tempted to gold plate.

I’m exhausted when I get home and the code I write then just (about) gets the
job done. It’d fail interviews big time though.

------
gexla
I'll vote for #1 and starting something on the side. The time constraint may
give you more focus and you won't be gambling away more time and money on an
uncertain path.

Some people seem to have a knack for getting right to the point of what needs
to be done in hustling an idea and making money on it. For others, it's way
too easy to spin the tires and get nowhere for weeks, then months on end. At a
certain point, the feeling of getting nowhere becomes a drain itself and the
likelihood of not finishing grows.

You don't want to find out which category you are in while burning through
savings. Better to start with constraints which force that sense of urgency
(lack of time.)

------
akulbe
#3, for sure. Multiple streams of income is always a good thing to have.
Nobody says you have to kill yourself working but spend an extra hour or two
building your side thing.

------
scarface74
Pro: You only live once. I've never regretted the chances I've taken and
failed. I would have regretted it much more if I didn't take the chance.

Con: Statistically, you will fail. There are people out there with the same
idea that are better funded, better connected and can move faster.

Pro: Internet projects are cheap. Infrastructure is cheap. Give me a
$200/month budget , I could easily host your typical small software as a
service app starting off with plenty of headroom.

Split the difference: Work and work on your side project. Even if you fail,
you still have something to add to your portfolio.

------
z3t4
Never risk your own money. But wasting time doesn't cost anything though. So
make sure your expenses are covered, then go at it. And if you are having fun
and learning stuff, then it's not a waste of time even if it fails.

But you probably don't want to do it alone. It's better to own 10% of
something, then 100% of nothing. Also validate your ideas before doing actual
_work_. For example do a kick-starter, or a signup-page, pitch the idea to
possible customers.

~~~
StriverGuy
This completely ignores the true value of time. I would give up plenty of my
own money for more time.

This is what drives people eventually hiring employees for their ventures and
should not be undersold as a reasonable way to think about things.

~~~
z3t4
Theres opportunity cost. But you cant buy time in the past and you can not bye
time in the future- only optimize it. There is only now!

------
amorphous
Another "been there, done that". If I could give advice to my 30 year old
self, without doubt, it'll be: #1. Focus on finding the right job that works
for you and pays the bills. Once you are back to feeling good start a side
project.

~~~
streetlight10
care to share how you come to that conclusion?

~~~
amorphous
Chasing the "dream" of having my own business without realising what that
actually requires. Then when it got difficult or boring, the next freelancing
job is so much easier (and way more lucrative). Back and forth with spending
savings on projects that never amounted to anything.

Slowly realised that nowadays, for us techies, there's a much better way of
having a good life. Just find the right job (look long and hard), get paid
well, hone your skills. I wasted a lot of time.

~~~
lacbuddah
I could have written this exactly - lived it. Combine that with the crappy
economy of 10-12 years ago, vomit.

Kids, you think you're dreaming now. Just imagine how much you'll be
regretting later. Just quit your job, take some time traveling then go find
another job. You'll feel better eventually.

------
sixtypoundhound
If you're bootstrapping, be wary of the NYC burn rate: your expense base will
explode and you're going to get taxed up the wazoo on your early revenue.
Worst business environment I've ever had to operate in.

If you're selling primarily to a NYC audience or industry, then move there of
course - get close to the customer. Otherwise you've got a lot more runway in
the South....

~~~
driven20
I should have been more clear. I will only move to NYC if I get a job there.

~~~
sixtypoundhound
Smart. It's more than a job though, since you're effectively investing in
building relationships within an eco-system.

Certain paths make more sense in NYC; if you're selling into finance or
publishing. If you're wanting to do a venture funded startup (or raise
investor capital). Adtech is probably stronger there too.

Others make sense in low cost markets; bootstrapping a product for middle
America. Stay cheap for that.

Pick your long term path then pick your environment.

------
jhabdas
Assuming you were an FTE, if you burned out in less than 5 years and have
already held multiple positions here're some things to consider:

\- Travel as soon as possible. The world will speak to you in ways a computer
never can.

\- If you don't go back to work right away, you may be looked at as less
reliable to HR department and hiring managers later.

\- If you do choose not to go back to work right away, you need to consider
the opportunity cost of not getting involved with someone else's start-up
right away.

\- If you and your girlfriend want to move to a city, be sure she has an
opportunity there to save the relationship in the case your your
entrepreneurial interests don't pan out.

All of the options you suggested will likely lead to to future burn out if you
don't move to a larger company. Find a job you kinda like and stay put for
awhile go gain experience and relationships, and place a rock in your resume.
Then you can pursue your dreams if you're able to save more or dramatically
reduce cost of living relative to a city.

------
mntmoss
I think the main factor in my response is in how much you feel you're in
control of your executive functions and emotions.

If you can easily re-prioritize your tasks because abstract feedback
mechanisms tell you so, and you can steel yourself to strategize and make
competitive choices under pressure, even when it means you may make a tradeoff
that hurts someone personally, you're in a pretty good position to operate a
business around any promising opportunity, and to scale it up if needed. That
doesn't mean "businesspeople should be immoral," but rather "they are able to
make genuinely tough decisions in an impersonal and fair manner, and are
numbed to the painful parts where the livelihood of the business depends on
it." (Acid test: how ruthless are you when playing board games?)

But if your mindset is more prone to meandering and getting fixated on
specific problems and you get propelled by events and emotional energy around
you - whether or not that adds up to a diagnosable condition, don't kid
yourself. You can have a business, but it should match your personality and
complement your strengths and weaknesses, and you might need a co-founder to
keep you grounded. Otherwise you'll shut down or divert yourself into solving
the wrong problem as soon as it gets hard.

And to some extent, controlling those thoughts and feelings is something you
can train up, and finding an appropriate co-founder is something you can
achieve by sheer peristence, but it really sits near the top of the heap in
terms of whether a commercial project with paying customers and possibly
employees will be the sound thing to pursue, because there are all sorts of
ways to rationalize yourself into a bad plan.

If you don't think you can do it that way, you can instead pursue a side
project with the intent of turning it into your next gig - something that will
at least market your skills and dreams and keep you employable even if you do
not have a clue of how it would operate at scale or over the long run. And
that might be preferable to grinding LeetCode.

------
sebastianconcpt
Let me add a complication. You are at an age where most people have kids.
Personally I've choose not to and went very careful to successfully not marry
nor have kids, so... just saying you should calculate how that will/will-not
compute into your plan.

~~~
driven20
Not planning on having kids for the time being

------
jameslk
Start with contracting instead of getting a job. A contract will give you more
flexibility to work on side projects since you have control over where and
when you work while also providing cash flow. It will also teach you important
skills on creating and running a business. If you can't sell yourself as a
contractor, you will have a hard time selling your product.

Once you have cash flow, start with trying to sell your idea before you build
it. If anyone wants your idea, hire others to help you build it and sell it.
Your contract cash flow will allow you to trade your time for other's who will
have skills you don't have.

~~~
driven20
Any tips on contracting? I have only got contracts through recruiters. Can you
get them directly with the company?

~~~
jameslk
Big companies that work with recruiters (staffing agencies) are usually just
trying to hire contractors to fill a short term need. You need to create your
own staffing agency if you want to compete on this.

Otherwise focus on a niche and build a brand that isn't based on your own
name. That way other companies aren't assuming when they work with you they
will _only_ work with you. 1-to-1 interactions make scaling very difficult. If
you've already done that, then it's time learn how to find your customers,
understand their problems and how to solve them, market to them and sell. This
is much easier when you focus on a niche rather than being a generalist
programmer that can do anything.

Since this is an old comment, it's probably not worth going into the details
here. If you're seriously interested, I'd be happy to help answer questions
from my experience. Feel free to find my contact info from the website in my
profile and reach out.

------
epc
Don't move to NYC without a job.

I love living in NYC, have been here for 20+ years. But your $60k will
disappear rapidly. If you want to be in the NYC metro area while you look for
a job pick a suburb on a train line about an hour out of the City (NJ, NY east
of the Hudson, maybe Long Island). Your burn rate will be much less but you'll
be able to get into Manhattan and nearby business districts in a predictable
amount of time for interviews and networking events (no recommendation on the
train line but avoid the single track train lines).

~~~
driven20
I should have been more clear. I will only move to NYC if I get a job there.

But thank you for the extra information about NYC. That's good to know.

------
loso
As someone who tried to do exactly what you are suggesting, but with
considerably less runway, find a job and start the business while you have the
job. It was a disaster for me trying to go all in at once. Especially in one
of the most expensive cities in the world, NYC. An I was 30 when I did it. I
ran into all kinds of issues that I didn't foresee. Health issues, money
issues, etc etc. Now I have a job while also starting a business and its
running a lot more smoothly.

------
WheelsAtLarge
Starting a business takes a high level of self control. Very few people have
it. You should do a critical self assessment to make sure you have it. Since
you have no job work on the business plan for your business and continue
looking for a job. You will benefit from the experience even if you do not get
a job. I advice that you carefully look at your self before you start the
business. The big question is do you have the grit to get from nothing to a
profitable business.

------
smt88
Nothing burns you out worse than starting a business. Get a job first. You may
want to find a company not based on NYC, in order to lower your likelihood of
burning out again.

------
sheeshkebab
#3 sounds reasonable - unless you know what that startup idea is, proved it
with a handful of customers, the likelyhood of it working out is < 1%. Still,
keep trying but don't assume your $60k will not be wasted & you'd not get even
more burned out.

Also, if you do get a job in nyc area - try for one that pays multiple of
whatever you were making down south.

------
panchicore3
Try to build your project, get full focus and become an excellent empiric,
lots of resources these days for this, in your way 1. You can fail. 2. You can
get traction and profit but always, 3. you will find a job, eventually, since
you became expert in the field you have been working and exploring with your
own spirit. This is my experience, 2 failures, both after the apps got
traction but competition had more money to run operations at scale the most of
the cases. Now my HV looks good because of them and my actual job is thanks to
a reference who pointed me for a similar mission of my 2 failures but in
different industry, I am developer and never applied to what represent my
actual incomes, just do it before having kids and get some mentorship with
someone senior, you will need to be confronted with reality or receive
guidance on how to do things quicker or easier. Respect for taking the first
and most important step.

------
duxup
Working for yourself makes it very easy to burn out. I'd be wary of that as
you described burning out already.

------
x0x0
re: #2

> _[...] I feel like I could make these ideas work, but it 's also super
> risky. I don't want to spend 1-2 years working on these ideas only to look
> up and realized I wasted my time and money._

If you can't get comfortable with that risk, you're going to have a very hard
time being an entrepreneur.

There's always people who luck into an amazing business and business model,
but realistically, you're going to have to put some resources in before you
figure out if there's value. Even if it's just mocks and time spent talking to
folks (do both those before coding anything though!)

Oh, and yelp is a terrible business -- the coding is straightforward. Your
problem there is entirely how do you seed a site with reviews and businesses.
Typically, two-sided marketplaces are some of the hardest businesses to
create.

~~~
driven20
I totally agree with the risk comment.

Also, my idea is to onboard small businesses slowly. Maybe, adopting and
building out features/tools for one business at a time. Until the project is
more completed and I can focus on scaling the onboarding.

~~~
x0x0
The problem isn't onboarding. The problem is that without a pool of users, the
site is worthless to businesses. The fundamental question you have to answer
is -- assume you can friends and family a couple businesses, fine -- why does
business 7 pay you money, or even do anything at all for you? Or business 8,
or 9, or 10...

Small businesses are _barraged_ with calls from vendors like you.

~~~
Roybot
Well it's not that black and white. Can op make the application/business
appealing as a single sided marketplace to begin with? Maybe. If there is 1
side that can find value without having the other side onboard then there you
go. Doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Still hard, but just address the
challenges as they come.

op, take a couple months to build your product (considering this is a CRUD-
like app) and then face the distribution problem.

------
mooreds
I wouldn't make any decisions while burnt out. Take some time and recover.

Then I think you need to think about where you want to go in your career. Do
you enjoy development and want to do nothing else? Don't start a business,
because you'll end up doing a lot of other things. Are you interested in the
control and passionate about your solution of your own business? Then start a
company.

Note that there's many other routes, some outlined in other comments. In
particular I spent years as a contractor/consultant on my own. It paid the
bills and gave me a ton of freedom.

~~~
driven20
Any links or resources on getting started as a contractor/consultant?

~~~
mooreds
[https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Secrets_of_Consulti...](https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Secrets_of_Consulting.html?id=dse2q-xhTLIC&source=kp_cover)

Is a good one, though high level.

For nuts and bolts I don't have a good recommendation, other than take other
software contractors to lunch and take a lot of notes.

------
xervyn
Work part time to pay the bills and spend the rest of your time working on
your projects. The $60,000 of yours will disappear faster than you think.
You'll eventually spend money on the business I assume.

~~~
driven20
Do you have recommendations on where I can find part-time work?

~~~
zachh
If you post your email / contact info on your profile, I can reach out with
some ideas. I work in NYC and happy to connect you with people depending on
your interest areas / skillset.

~~~
driven20
Updated my profile to contain my email. Thanks!

~~~
detaro
you need to put it in the "about" field, the "email" field is just for
password reset emails etc and not public.

------
aklemm
I’m in a similar position and have an option #4 that would be my own preferred
route, but I’ve only recently started thinking about it.

#4 Partner in as a tech lead or cofounder on someone else’s early stage idea.

The question is how to find that person. Angle list? Product Hunt? Who has
some ideas?

I think once you’re working among the right group, you might find more startup
founders to work with in a way that is inline with what you seem to want.

------
throw03172019
Before you have settle down and start a family...

#3 or #2.

You could also attempt to build an MVP (#2) and try to raise a small amount of
money so you can de-risk yourself a bit.

------
wolco
If you have to set aside time to start a business you shouldn't go that route.
An idea should take over your life before you consider making it your day job.

Neither.

You are burned out. Rest / have some fun and fall in love. When an idea hits
you run with it. If nothing inspires you and you get bored with rest go find a
job.

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jammygit
I’m making a similar choice myself. I just graduated though and I don’t think
it’s responsible to chase a pipe dream while I have student debt and family
responsibilities without at least having more experience.

Badly wanting to be convinced otherwise though, but it’s hard when people are
depending on you...

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aj-4
I highly recommend reading the book "Company of One" by Paul Jarvis if you are
considering going the entrepreneurship route

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jakobegger
If you aren't 100% sure if your ideas are any good, they probably aren't, and
it's better to just get a job.

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kjgkjhfkjf
Pick an idea and try to make it work. There's useful advice to be found here
and elsewhere on the web, but your own experience trumps all that. You'll
learn a lot, and if/when you decide to return to the corporate world you'll be
in an advantaged position to do so.

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usgroup
Well if you’re happy with a prior that sees you fail after a year’s effort 95%
of the time; you should do a startup (don’t kid yourself about better odds).
Perhaps if you were capable of putting in 5 years of pivoting trying and
failing your odds start to look much better.

Otherwise, get a job.

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mettamage
I wish I had more experience, because then I could help you more. I
unfortunately am in a similar situation and have less work experience than you
do. My sources will mostly be from my studies and HN. I hope some people will
amend my thoughts or challenge them strongly.

Some hopefully helpful thoughts:

1) Is it for fun or profit? You can't have both motivations

One thing you should think about with #2 is the overjustification effect [1].
I think there's a cognitive dissonance effect at play [2]. In practical terms,
ask yourself: are you having a side project because you like to do it, or
because you want to make money and "scratching your own itch" is simply a
marketing tactic of understanding your users? If you say: well, both! Then
you're prone to the overjustification effect and you might sap _a lot_ of
intrinsic motivation away.

2) Generalists tend to earn less money

There was a recent thread on HN that made me believe that specialists will
fare better in big(ger) companies and generalists will fare better in small
ones. Since big(ger) companies tend to have more resources, specialists tend
to be paid better salaries. I presume your entrepreneurial motivation is in
part financial. Being an entrepreneur prepares you to be a generalist [3].

3) With that said more motivated people are more competitive and earn more

This is a bit of a tricky one. It has been my observation that CS students who
enrolled into university and were passioned about coding tended to be more
competitive on the job market than the average CS student (if I have to
believe my LinkedIn, which has +500 connections and +100 recent graduated
programmers on it).

One confounding factor, however, with competition is not that you simply have
to be motivated. There is a certain baseline of motivation depending on whom
your competition is. For example, the gaming industry is a more competitive
industry simply because employees are more motivated (I read it somewhere, I
do not have the source). Another confounding factor is that the distribution
of wealth regarding an industry matters. If you are the 50th percentile earner
in the compiler industry, you'll earn a lot more than if you are the 50th
percentile earner in the game development industry (with its many indie
companies that are underfunded).

What I described here I'd equate as (with the strong assumption that people
their ability to learn is similar and they are at a similar level as you):

wealth = motivation_percentile * wealth_distribution_percentile

motivation_percentile: your motivation ranked to that of peers who are in the
same industry. A simple metric is: amount of hours worked on relatively high
focus.

This is a long way of saying: do you know how motivated you are compared to
your competition? And do you know the wealth distribution of what job and/or
app you're getting into? In terms of entrepreneurship on wealth distribution:
education is less lucrative than healthcare, for example. A heuristic
following from this: if you can find a boring industry that you're excited by,
then your chances of success are higher.

4) How many product market fits are you able to validate?

It took Rovio games 52 games in order to produce Angry Birds [4]. I am not
sure if this is a fair comparison as many industries are different and the
average amount of tries to make it big can vary. However, based on stories of
most entrepreneurs, I think it is safe to assume that this number tends to be
bigger than 10. I hope other people could get some good statistics on this, I
couldn't find any.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overjustification_effect)

[2] [https://youtu.be/h6HLDV0T5Q8?t=488](https://youtu.be/h6HLDV0T5Q8?t=488)

[3]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20094242](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20094242)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovio_Entertainment#cite_note-...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovio_Entertainment#cite_note-
venturebeat.com-3)

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achingtooth
If you're serious about it, there is another option. You can move to Europe or
Asia and live cheap while working on your business. I make ~$1,000 a month
doing freelance work 30 hours a month. The rest of the time I spend working on
my project ideas. My living expenses are ~$400 and I spend another $100-200 on
project ideas.

~~~
csomar
I live in a dirt-cheap country and I find it hard to believe that you can
survive on $400/month. Do you take a trip back home? Do you factor in the
price of your laptop/phone? Does this include clothes/medical expenses? Also,
what country are you living in?

~~~
achingtooth
I don't take trips back home, I don't have a phone, I don't have health
insurance, I have one pair of clothes and gym clothes. I have an 10 year old
x200 ThinkPad that cost $90. It's very fast, I use Arch Linux+Libreboot+Vim.
I've live in Ukraine, Moldova, Macedonia, Romania and Serbia. Normally I stay
in Ukraine or Moldova though. My expenses are between $150-250 for housing (I
live in youth hostels or Airbnb, I travel with my brother and a friend so we
split the cost), $165 for food, and ~$20 for the gym.

~~~
throw51319
Very cool. What kind of work do you do? Also, do you speak Russian or just
basic Russian to barely get by?

~~~
achingtooth
I can't speak any language other than English. I've never had any issues. You
can generally get what you mean across by pointing and/or shaking your head

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ronilan
> _“Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard. Live in
> Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft.”_

From “Advice, like youth, probably just wasted on the young” by Mary Schmich

~~~
driven20
Haha, I ran across this quote before. I like it. Thanks

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terrycody
I highly advise u choose safe routine, while spend your spare time on side
projects. You can always find sparks on HN or Indiehackers websites, or some
Internet Marketing related forums.

Do you know PHP and wordpress? I personally have a very big project idea, but
only need a very very high level technique involving design a wordpress plugin
using PHP, if this can be done, it would be a very good side project and
passive. (no need big investment, the plugin is the main goal)

good luck to u and your family.

