
Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters - dennisvdvliet
https://dennisvdvliet.typeform.com/to/XMisfb
======
dorfsmay
Are recruiters that big of an issue for you guys?

I do not get that many emails/contacts from recruiters, and I find a quick
polite email exchange or one phone call allows to quickly clarify the
situation and we're done.

I actually welcome recruiters contacting me, it keeps me in the loop of what's
going, market rate etc... and sometime help me finding new gigs.

EDIT: It seems that where you are located makes a big difference. I get a few
emails a week, almost zero spam. People in the bay area reports dozen of
emails a day from robots based on keywords, that would indeed be frustrating.

~~~
rrrx3
Suppose it depends on the market/job role.

I'm a Designer with some developer skills and I get spammed constantly for
having things like "Javascript" et al on my profile.

My true developer friends seem to get it even worse. Around here, Java is the
big need, so if you've got it on your profile, expect constant recruiter spam.

~~~
duiker101
Really? Java is so wanted? Where are you?

~~~
iamthepieman
There are a lot of Java jobs out there.not in startup-land but government and
big fortune 500 firms wrote a lot of Java applications in the 90s and early
2000's that they are still maintaining. Also, because of this they will often
write new applications in Java because that's what their in house developers
who were hired to maintain old apps already know.

I worked on a java server application about 10 years ago and I get more
recruiters contacting me about Java positions from that one item on my resume
than I get from anything more recent or currently popular.

~~~
phkahler
>> I worked on a java server application about 10 years ago and I get more
recruiters contacting me about Java positions from that one item on my resume
than I get from anything more recent or currently popular.

Drop it from your resume. Go ahead and leave the position and project
description, but leave the language out.

------
copsarebastards
Recent exchange I had with a recruiter over email:

 _Recruiter:_ I found your email on LinkedIn and I have a few Java positions
you might be interested in. Would you be interested in <blah blah blah>

 _Me:_ I don't have a LinkedIn account. How did you actually find my info?

 _Recruiter:_ It was in a database we share with a few other recruitment
agencies.

 _Me:_ Could you remove me from the database?

 _Recruiter:_ Okay, you have been removed from the database.

 _Me:_ Since we both know you didn't delete it, you at least update it to say
I'm interested in Python jobs? I haven't worked in Java in 5 years and have no
interest in going back.

 _Recruiter:_ Okay, I've added Python to your languages.

 _Me:_ But you didn't remove me from the database and you didn't remove Java
from my languages?

 _Recruiter:_ I'm not authorized to remove data from the database.

 _Me:_ So you lied about where you got my info and you lied about deleting my
data from your database?

I like to think that after this he had a revelation and switched careers, but
more likely he moved on to prey on another sucker.

EDIT: This was from a new recruitment address. Most recruitment emails I
receive get filtered and receive an automated response telling them politely
that I'm not interested in their services.

~~~
AtmaScout
They likely moved on, but then again dealerships are always looking for sales
people. He has the lying requirement down.

------
fecak
Recruiter here, and I'd welcome this type of response. I'd much prefer to
reach out to someone via email address than LinkedIn, but when I can't find an
address (it happens) it means a LinkedIn invite that has severe character
limits. All you can usually fit is a quick intro and "are you interested in
discussing a job doing..." type stuff.

This response gives the recruiter an opportunity to present a fairly decent
pitch, while giving the recipient the ability to screen a more complete pitch
instead of a truncated note.

------
flurpitude
I'm not keen on Typeform's scrolling form presentation. When I'm filling in a
form I like to have a mental map of where I am, whereas this feels like
stumbling through fog.

------
calcsam
Mine: "The next time a recruiter pings you, ask them how much you're worth."

[https://medium.com/@calcsam/the-next-time-a-recruiter-
pings-...](https://medium.com/@calcsam/the-next-time-a-recruiter-pings-you-
ask-them-how-much-youre-worth-1897ec95eb41)

~~~
xofer
There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a
negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself
first. If you seriously want to know what they're willing to pay, you'll have
to go through the whole hiring process.

~~~
dragonwriter
> There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's
> a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell
> yourself first.

Only because enough people accept that to shift the power away from would-be
employees. If there is really a shortage of good tech workers, as employers
keep claiming, then they have the power -- all they have to do is choose to
exercise it. Make the would be employers (and the recruiters acting as their
agents) establish that its worth your time to even bother considering the work
they want done by putting numbers on the table first.

~~~
marktangotango
Lately, if I can get a job description from the recruiter, I'll reply with 'I
would require ${current salary * 1.1} to consider moving at this time'.
Usually I get responses such 'they would go that salary for the right
candidate'. Note you have to specify straight salary, not total compensation,
otherwise they try to tack on all the benefits everyone offers now as 'total
compensation package' BS.

~~~
xofer
Right -- for the right candidate. I don't buy things without vetting them
first; why would I expect someone else to? The suggestion that there is some
exact figure out there that you are worth is false binary thinking. There are
lots of factors that make you a better or worse candidate for any particular
job. The better you are at the art of feeling out the situation and presenting
yourself in the best light, the better you'll do, and the more you'll realize
that starting with, "What are you offering?" isn't a good tactic.

~~~
marktangotango
Absolutely, this just let's me know if I even want to expend energy to pursue
the position.

------
meritt
I usually just tell recruiter[N] that I'm not interested but I know a great
developer, recruiter[N-1], who is a perfect candidate.

------
Methusalah
I had one track down the phone number for my employer, call here, and ask the
secretary to speak with me while refusing to say what the reason was until he
spoke with me.

~~~
copsarebastards
I had the same experience. Luckily for me the secretary at my work politely
declined to pass on the call.

~~~
endymi0n
Same thing here - on top he was talking in English (I'm German) and didn't
even ask if I was in a good position to talk. Talk about awkwardness to my
colleagues.

~~~
copsarebastards
At another job I worked at, our team had some of the most well-known devs in
the metropolitan area, and our office line received 5-10 calls a day from
recruiters asking for one of the devs. We had a team rule: you answer with
"Hello" only and don't give _any_ information to the caller until they give
you their name, company, and reason for calling. It didn't stop some people
from calling us daily.

------
ForHackernews
"What's wrong with this country? Can't a man walk down the street without
being offered a job!?"

[https://imgur.com/r/TheSimpsons/1Oz75R0](https://imgur.com/r/TheSimpsons/1Oz75R0)

------
krmmalik
This is hilarious. Well done. I hate how everything in recruitment becomes all
about filling in forms. Its ludicrous. Bravo

------
sjs382
How many have you sent this to? What's the conversion rate? ;)

~~~
dennisvdvliet
I used it for a while already. Hard to see the conversion rate since HN people
or now spamming it with bogus content.

My gutfeeling tells me that is was around 50-60%

------
JSeymourATL
Brilliant, well done! Sure to screen out the Bozos from people who may really
want to talk with you. The good recruiters will get it.

Might suggest a sub-section under Job Description-- who does this role report
to? (Give me their name).

~~~
dennisvdvliet
Don't think any recruiter is going to give me that info :-)

Usually they claim that everything is so secret etc.

~~~
yareally
Only the awful ones that are probably worried because the job is also posted
online somewhere and aren't really dealing directly with the employer.

~~~
dennisvdvliet
Agreed, usually it takes 20 milliseconds on google to figure out what they
work for is.

------
niuzeta
This is absolutely brilliant. The thing is, how do you actually reply the
recruiters with the link? Surely it would be rather rude to simply reply a
solicitation with a 'please check this link'.

~~~
centizen
I'd imagine it's done in the same automated manner the recruiters usually use
when contacting a possible lead.

It does not seem rude to me to reply to someone with a brief salutation and a
request to complete some forms when that is what they are requesting you do as
well.

~~~
niuzeta
It's an IT-equivalent of cold-calling. Normally I just do not bother
responding.

------
thebouv
I talk right back to them. I'm not looking for a new job, but I do have former
employees and friends and if I think they're qualified, I try to get the
recruiter and my colleague together.

------
ekanes
Many commenters are talking about how they handle/manage this, generally by
replying to the recruiter in some fashion.

Consider that you have no societal/politeness obligation to reply to any sales
(and recruiting is sales) email, ever. You can just ignore/filter with
abandon.

These folks are eating up your most precious resource - your time.

------
theflork
What did you use to build it and how does it notify you of the submission?

and , curious how many recruiters go through this?

~~~
dennisvdvliet
At the moment it is mostly HN visitors entering bogus info.

60% of them replies but most of them with the same info as in the email. I bin
those.

Some of them get it an like it, I tend to like them a little more.

------
omouse
This is pretty awesome, I don't know what it is but I've been getting more
aggressive recruiters actually calling me. One even called the office of my
recent new job! Huge wtf; I'm a dev I like automation, don't _call_.

------
sdalfakj
What is it in the linked page that makes the page fail to show any text when
javascript is blocked? and why is this being done?

srs.

~~~
wodenokoto
With javascript it is one of the smoothest experiences I've seen filling out a
form. Very, very nice.

But probably not worth it, if it doesn't degrade nicely.

------
bsg75
This should be a service.

~~~
alxndr
That's what Hired is trying to be, isn't it?

------
eridal
man, I want to fork for my personal use!

~~~
dennisvdvliet
Feel free, to create one yourself on typeform.com

------
rilita
Regarding your choice of fields:

1\. Name - This is already in emails I get from recruiters

2\. Email - Useful since LinkedIn emails typically don't include their actual
email

3\. Phone Number - Ditto to #1; they typically include it

4\. How did you find me - Considering you stated this is in reply to LinkedIn
recruiters; LinkedIn?? ...

5\. Name of the company - Most recruiters will not share this information
until you have gone through the process more. What is to stop you from
ignoring them and contacting companies directly once they give this? This is a
poor choice and will drive away recruiters. I do see this is not a required
field, but that is not obvious at first glance.

6\. Location - You should consider converting this into a zipcode lookup or
something. If not generic information such as state or city may be entered
here. ( or possibly nothing/bogus info )

7\. Job title - Often recruiters have multiple positions available depending
on your experience and fit. Also job title doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Half of the jobs I have had had no job title.

8\. Job description - This is usually provided in the email I get from
recruiters. That said, sometimes they don't so I can see the use. You might
consider adding "Required skills" as a question also.

9\. Yearly salary before taxes - This is a required field. If I were a
recruiter I would ignore you at this point. You should be more interested in
the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good
career is more important than a dollar figure. Better than this would be a set
of ranges; then you can ignore all requests in the ranges you would not
accept. Gets you similar info but avoids the insult.

~~~
mathgeek
> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This
> looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a
> dollar figure.

If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly
one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them
to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.

~~~
rilita
I would never hire someone with this perspective. Quality of the position and
the ability to enjoy it and work hard without stressing is way more important
than pay in my book.

~~~
throwaway12309
No wonder there is a tech shortage. "I want people that don't care about money
so I can treat them like slaves" YAY Go Tech! /s

~~~
rilita
We don't need more tech people. We need more tech people who give a shit about
their jobs besides getting paid.

~~~
throwaway12309
Why? Not being an asshole, seriously wondering?

Let's assume we have two people, and for sake of discussion, both will only
work 8 hours a day. Do you think enthusiasm will trump experience and
profissionalism?

I don't follow the latest trends in frameworks/languages, I like solid
solutions over start up mentality of ship fast and think over the problems and
design good solutions for my clients. I work with SV startups that have all
these people that 'care' but I'm still called to clean up their shit. And
because of this, I make very very good money. I still won't work more than 8
hours a day, and except for a couple hours to unwind (HN, news, reddit) I
don't even touch the computer and spend the time with my family/community. And
I can tell you, if sweeping streets paid me more, I would be sweeping streets.
I don't give a fuck about the work I do. Want me to work on oil platform, if
you pay me, sure! A social network for gerbils, if you pay me, sure! HFT, if
you pay me, sure!

