
It’s Probably Not Okay to Send Naked Pictures on LinkedIn - p17b
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-14/it-s-probably-not-okay-to-send-naked-pictures-on-linkedin?cmpid=socialflow-facebook-gameplan&utm_content=gameplan&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
======
bluetidepro
I completely agree that it was not right for the sexual misconduct to happen
in the first place. Not debating that at all. That is wrong on all levels.
But...

>LinkedIn is an extension of the workplace, similar to going into the office
or attending a corporate networking event, the theory of the case goes.

I don't get how that could ever be legally enforced? Wouldn't a lawsuit like
this would forever change LinkedIn if they won? Not even related to this
sexual misconduct that started this, I could easily see so many people bailing
from LinkedIn if it was somehow considered an extension of your workplace
directly. This will be really interesting to see what happens next with this.

~~~
nxsynonym
I too am curious about how they will define LinkedIn.

From a mannerism/general code of conduct - I agree that it should be treated
like an office or work-related event.

Legally - it's a weird stance. If it's a direct extension of your workplace
what will that mean for NDAs and corporate policies? Do they "own" the rights
to all information you post while working there? What happens when you move
on?

~~~
chc
The owners of an office building or event venue don't get any of those
privileges either, and yet the office and work-related events are
unambiguously governed by workplace rules. The fact that LinkedIn is not your
employer doesn't seem like a big problem.

~~~
problems
Sort of - LinkedIn may combine things from different employers or seeking of a
new employer, which your current employer may not at all approve of. So you
can't really apply workplace rules to it directly.

~~~
chc
You could say the same thing about hallways in an office building with
multiple tenants, but I don't think it's legally ambiguous whether
propositioning your coworkers outside the restroom is more appropriate than
doing it in the office.

~~~
problems
Definitely - heck, you could argue any interaction between coworkers like that
could impact the job.

Just that many other such interactions that occur on linkedin might not, so
job rules really don't apply just because it's work related but more because
you're dealing with a coworker.

------
vmarsy
Most important part of the article is that the offender is a recruiter:

> Jane Doe alleged that a recruitment conversation on LinkedIn took a turn for
> the inappropriate when she received sexual messages from a banker—using his
> corporate account—who had been trying to recruit her. One of the messages
> included a photograph of his genitals.

So "It’s Probably Not Okay to Send Naked Pictures if you're a recruiter
representing the company" would be a more accurate title, but it wouldn't be
as interesting of an headline.

Similarly that if you're a recruiter calling someone or having a dinner with,
you shouldn't attempt to seduce* the maybe-future-employee since that's
clearly an abuse of power. Lawsuit or not, that recruiter should be fired.

I don't think the medium (phone company, restaurant you're at, or Linkedin)
should be held responsible and Nowhere on this article it says the plaintiff
is suing Linkedin, she's suing the company that recruiter works for.

* For some people apparently, sending a photograph of their genitals seem to be a "seduction" technique, but even if this was more tactful flirting, this is already not ok.

~~~
mc32
This is tangential but somewhat related. I'd like to see a day when if someone
publishes something on their personal account (not official work account)
whether it be social media, private conversation, etc. that those actions not
affect their "life for hire" (work) life.

That's the way it has been for ages (what one would say in one's private time
was detached and unrelated to public time).

I hope we can get there because humans are not perfect and we will always say
regretful things. Things which if held to account as if representatives of a
company would carry different weight. People should be able to voice their own
opinion separately divorced from their "professional persona".

In other words, someone from UAL when in "uniform" should conduct themselves
professionally --but once they go home and don their personal attire and their
personal opinion (even if negative) should not affect their professional
standing. For example, flight attendant has to deal with egotistical high
profile passenger --as a professional they should be able to handle things
gracefully, but once they get home as a private citizen they should be able to
say "I had to deal with a nasty traveler today" without the company coming
down and saying "don't demean our paying customers even if they mistreat you,
that is unbecoming, you are fired".

------
diziet
Unlike email accounts (firstname.lastname@company.com) or accounts at various
services and vendors tied to those emails (such as Photoshop, Jira, etc),
many, if not most Linkedin accounts stay with people across jobs. In case of
Sales Teams or Recruiters, companies might pay or reimburse for the premium
services that Linkedin monetizes, and the employees might use Linkedin in the
day-to-day work, but they're also likely to look for other jobs, build non-
work related professional connections, etc.

------
stcredzero
TIL: There's a niche opportunity for a LinkedIn for the adult entertainment
industry.

~~~
mpeg
That's called Twitter for professionals and Tumblr for amateurs.

~~~
stcredzero
I guess PornHub works pretty well as an IMDB analogue.

------
rcdwealth
When anybody pretends to be authorized by a company, and employee is in
conversation with authorized person, than both the company and individual
shall be held liable for sexual harassment

------
asadlambdatest
Linkedin is failing big time to control spam and impersonation. Keeping these
social media clean is next big challenge for the tech world.

------
wand3r
The article also states, a few other anecdotes.

A recruiter who uses LinkedIn to send unsolicited messages on the platform for
professional gain was upset she received unsolicited social messages. She was
unable to recognize the irony.

Another businesswoman was actually a reality TV star from Trump's the
apprentice. She left the platform because the lines blurred from
social/entertainment/career and she was getting harassed.

IDK, I feel for this woman but I am not convinced seeing dick pick entitles
her to millions from a company she isn't affiliated with. Coming from the
Susan Fowler thread, I really feel for her. This seems like a money grab

~~~
watwut
What is the connection between this and Fowler? Seems like two completely
separate issues involving entirely different people and industries?

------
fivestar
While I don't condone that banker's behavior in any way, I want to mention
that I pretty much refuse to speak to any women where I work unless I
absolutely have to. It's really the only way to remain safe in such
politically correct environments.

I think something important is being lost in our day to day interactions with
colleagues and not only that, but much has been taken away from our personal
lives when we deal with overbearing rules. Again, not condoning the 'dick
pics' that was way out of line, but merely observing that life in the US is
just not any fun in or out of the workplace.

I can't even imagine trying to date in a an environment where your
professional life is threatened merely by opening your mouth at all.

Also, there's a double-standard--women harassing men is overlooked by men, but
when it goes the other way it is never overlooked. So unless a man's overtures
of friendship are immediately warmly welcomed (and subject to later rejection,
natch) that person's job is at risk.

Meanwhile, the C-Suite and higher echelon folks are all in bed with each
other, which is the other double standard.

------
microcolonel
Every place where people can communicate is a place where they can
proposition. If you're thinking of changing this, give up now while you have
your sanity.

LinkedIn is a social network which prominently displays professional
credentials. I have dated women I've met on LinkedIn and it's gone just fine
(granted, nobody I was doing business with, that is unwise even if not
illegal).

The question of the case, in my estimation, is _Is it unlawful to send a
picture of your genitals to a person who works with your company over a
channel you might also use for business communications_. This gets into all
sorts of complicated matters; for example, is it unlawful to MMS a picture of
your genitals to somebody who does business with your company?

Is there a precedent for a similar case but with a different medium? If the
precedent did not penalize the defendant, is there something about LinkedIn or
another detail of the case which distinguishes it?

~~~
jessaustin
Did you start out the conversation with genital photos? Because I keep hearing
about guys who do that, and it's just never made sense to me...

~~~
microcolonel
I don't think that's effective, I don't do it. Ogi Ogas & Sai Gaddam did some
analysis which would suggest that dick pics are not effective, given that
imagery of penises (and visual stimulus in general) is not a major factor in
female arousal. From a personal "moral" perspective I don't see myself doing
that.

Excellent question nonetheless. Nobody really seems to think much when they do
things like this.

I think the reason men* send dick pics is because they (the men) are naturally
aroused by imagery of penises, and think that women will be similarly aroused
by it. It's probably a lot like a women giving complimenting a man on social
stature, confidence, or competence, and maybe not understanding that he
probably won't understand what she's getting at.

* _Edit: referring to straight men in this case_

~~~
jaredsohn
I think you could have avoided the downvotes (edit: and be more correct IMO)
if you just said that the men who send dick pics to women are the type that
would welcome women sending intimate pictures of themselves.

Edit: I am not wondering about the motives of straight women sending nude
pictures to men; I am just giving a more plausible reason than what I think
you gave as to why some men might think the idea could be effective. (i.e.
looking at how they might react to it). Besides, isn't the point that a person
sends photos of themselves?

~~~
microcolonel
> _I think you could have avoided the downvotes if you just said that the men
> who send dick pics to women are the type that would welcome women sending
> intimate pictures of themselves._

But that would be nebulous, inaccurate, and entirely beside the point. I have
no evidence of the statement you just suggested, and I would not suggest it.
The fact is that no man, straight or gay, is currently litigating for the
privilege not to see other sex nudity on LinkedIn InMail; thus it makes no
sense to wonder about the motives of straight women who send nude pictures to
men on LinkedIn for attention.

 _Aside:_ I don't care about _avoiding downvotes_ , I'm not an agreeable
πerson (in the psychometric sense). I don't think life is worth living if you
strive to only say things that people won't disagree with. For example, watwut
on the other subthread is shocked, probably shocked enough to downvote and
move on, that I would say that straight men are sexually aroused by imagery of
penises. I don't care. If I look at my statements for the last month or so,
there's a mix of positive and negative feedback, the balance happens to be
roughly +100 karma, but I don't so much care as long as I have enough karma to
upvote.

