

Ask HN: How to foster hacker culture at my school (Cornell)? - zoudini

Maybe it's an unfair criticism, but my school (Cornell) seems to lack the kind of ambition/enthusiasm for startups that you hear about at a Stanford or MIT.<p>I've got my own ideas about why that's the case (see below), but my real question is what I/others can do to get other talented and brilliant people excited/passionate about startups, open source and the future of tech (among other things -- given that these are very broad and not always overlapping areas to begin with)?<p>Possible causes:<p>0. Location location location -- Ithaca, NY is not Silicon Valley or Cambridge, MA. Cornell is pretty much the central hub of activity. But I do think the conditions are ripe for a Research Triangle, NC type of scene (Syracuse was recently named among the most affordable cities in the US, there are major research institutions like Cornell, RIT, University of Rochester, among others in the area)<p>1. A certain amount of group think -- CS at Cornell seems to focus a lot more on theory/research. I know this is the case at any reputable CS school but the top CS students either aim to go get their PhDs and pursue the most abstract research or go work for an IBM/Accenture (in my experience, a lot more people opt for MS over Google and I know of a handful at FB)<p>2. Lack of a nurturing environment -- There are some brilliant minds among the faculty (Jon Kleinberg for example) but again the focus seems to be almost solely on theory and not as "modern" languages (Cornell is for all intents and purposes now a Java school, C++/Matlab/Functional languages). Profs seem way too absorbed in their own research and much of the "teaching" falls on incompetent/inexperienced lecturers/grad students so it's hard to really motivated. Doing CS at Cornell feels more like surviving the gauntlet then doing something you're passionate about.<p>Part of this is that every major/school at Cornell is like its own little silo, you really have to go out of your way to "embed" yourself with the art students, stats heads, etc. That's why even though Cornell has a big emphasis on "entrepreneurship", it seems to focus on the "business co-founder types" and it's really sad how absent software/tech is missing from the scene (the entrepreneurship seems to revolve a lot of times around tech transfer and turning research into companies in materials, nanotech, etc.)
======
amoore
You may not notice it, but you have some entrepreneurial and hacker spirit
there already. Ever read about projects like TheGlobe.com or people like
Robert Tappan Morris and pg? (Go Big Red!) Here is some advice, but I can't
tell if you're trying to start a company, or encourage others to, so this is a
bit of both.

1\. Go ask Student Agencies if they need any tech problems solved. I think
they run TakeNote, those coupon books, and a bunch of other student-related
services. They may have an idea for a student-related service that you can
implement and run yourself or eventually sell to them. Since they're sort of a
student-run organization, they would be a good way to bring together some
problem-solving students and more open to eventually paying you for starting a
project for them.

2\. show up to the cslug or acsu meetings and mailing lists. Ask others what
they're working on, or ask them for help or advice on your ideas. Show them
that you have a commercially viable project, and they'll start following your
lead either by participating with you or by starting their own. Cross-
pollinate these groups with the Ithaca Perl Mongers, Ithaca free software
group, Ithaca linux users, and whatever other small, niche user groups are
around there these days. One activist per year can completely change any of
these organizations.

3\. If you can't consistently steer the meetings for one of those clubs
towards the topics you would like to hear more about, start your own. Meet
monthly someplace nearby off campus where they serve beer, but you don't have
to be 21 to enter. Select someone at each meeting to talk for a few minutes
about their idea or project at the next meeting.

4\. Find the professors who are actually doing things. Sure Tim Teitelbaum's
company is pretty academic and different from the general YC startups, but at
least he has a company. There are others. Ask him for advice on starting a
company in Ithaca. Have a professor speak about starting and running a local
company at the meetings discussed in steps 2 and 3.

5\. I don't know what the "Center for Advanced Computing" is like these days,
but it used to be that hanging out by the coffee cart in the Theory Center was
the best way to meet folks who were actually using computers to solve
problems. Go hang out with those guys.

6\. Sit in on some classes at the Johnson School. Eventually, you'll figure
out which of those MBA students actually want to start businesses. Invite them
to your meetings, or join theirs. Offer your technical services to any of
their pipedream projects. They need you.

I'm glad to hear you're interested in this. You can make a large difference
just by consistently beating a drum. I'm serious, one dedicated person in a
community like that can change a lot. Good luck!

~~~
zoudini
I should clarify... I'm not an alum who's back in Ithaca. I am working on my
own projects but that's not really my motivation for wanting to do this. It's
more encouraging others to be involved in similar types of activities. Rhodes
Hall (where the Theory Center is) is mostly the realm of grad students. Thanks
for the encouragement.

~~~
zoudini
whoops... meant to say I AM an ALUM who is back in Ithaca...

------
asanwal
Cornell produced as many founders of VC-backed internet companies as Stanford
did in the first half of 2010. Of course, your push to improve/enhance hacker
culture is commendable but just wanted to say that based on the data from the
early part of this year, Cornell folks seem to be holding their own in the
startup realm (which is probably a sibling if not synonymous with hacker
culture).

Unfortunately, my alma mater (Penn) came in fourth so I suppose I should be
posting something similar to see how we can catch up with Cornell, Stanford,
etc. :)

The school rankings are on page 38 of this report where you'll see Cornell up
top alongside Stanford.

[http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/venture-capital/venture-
capit...](http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/venture-capital/venture-capital-
human-capital-report-gender-and-education)

Note: Stanford is also towards the top on the grad school rankings as well on
which Cornell does not show up. FYI.

------
tpwong
I saw pg give a talk a couple of weeks ago at a YC event for Cornell alumni
(I'm May '10 and still on campus doing research + my own projects), and asked
what he thought the reasons were that Cornell didn't have a larger startup
community. The response he gave was that few VCs, if any, are ever going to go
up to Cornell, which I think validates your first point. Here there's no
prestige associated with starting something, and being a typical status-
obsessed Ivy League, it figures that creating a startup doesn't even occur to
most people. Contrast this with Stanford, which has produced many successful
startups, and where not working at a startup is a conscious decision that
people make (or so I've heard).

That being said, another reason for the lack is partly that the hacker culture
isn't as visible at Cornell, given its many schools and diverse set of
students. I've met people with interesting projects that few, if any, ever
catch wind of.

I think moving forward, there is reason for hope. Firstly, Cornell has a large
student population, which provides rich soil for fomenting and validating
ideas. Next, the CS department is fairly highly ranked, so one hopes that
there is a good amount of talent out there. Finally, there have been some
startups founded by Cornellians in recent years, both while in school (e.g.
Wiggio) and after (Opzi, YC funded, I think). You have to look a bit harder,
but the signs are there. A friend of mine developed jitouch, a multitouch
extension for the mac in his free time, and is now working on an ios game.

People are interested. Especially with the Gates building coming up in a few
years and serving as a nexus for all things computer, the time is near when
all the disparate threads will be woven together. The seeds are already being
planted. I met a sophomore at the talk I alluded to above who's excited about
bringing a startup weekend type event to campus this year. Clubs also help,
and I think to be useful to hackers, you want to provide at least:

1\. Opportunities to network to find co-founders - i.e. startup weekend, demo
day, meetings/weekly brunch (or other meal)

2\. Opportunities to share and develop ideas - i.e. startup weekend, demo day,
hosting resources (maybe)

3\. Guidance on what comes after - speakers (though it is admittedly hard to
convince people to come up to Ithaca), maybe networking with some angel
investors once in a while, perhaps curate a biweekly/monthly newsletter of
startup related news (for visibility).

The best is yet to be. Expect great things.

~~~
zoudini
I'm curious about the YC event for Cornell alumni (link?) and meeting
up/hearing about your research/projects. Check my profile for gmail.

------
akshayubhat
I am at Cornell, actually I just started, There is a good grad level
entrepreneurship course at the Management school, also you can enroll for
software engineering course, where you work on delivering a product for a
startup/other clients. Also you own the product or some share in resulting
enterprise if it is a startup.

This guy <http://www.stephenpurpura.com/site/Welcome.html> is T.A for the
software Engg. course is also an ex-Microsoft guy who was Product Manager for
Windows XP.

<http://www.seamlessreceipts.com/about> was founded as result of the Software
Engg. course and it has known to have received 225K in funding.

Also Prof. Claire Cardie has her own startup in area of sentiment detection in
texts.

If you are a senior then you can still enroll in the Software Engg. course,
its a 5K level course though.

Here is the link to the course:
<http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs5150/2010fa/>

------
akshayubhat

        1. A certain amount of group think -- CS at Cornell seems to focus a lot more on theory/research. I know this is the case at any reputable CS school but the top CS students either aim to go get their PhDs and pursue the most abstract research or go work for an IBM/Accenture (in my experience, a lot more people opt for MS over Google and I know of a handful at FB)
    

Thats is purely beacuse MS hires more people every year. You can obtain good
stats from this page:
[http://www.cs.cornell.edu/ugrad/cscareers/PlacementReport/in...](http://www.cs.cornell.edu/ugrad/cscareers/PlacementReport/index.htm)
[for undergrad]

For Masters students as well as undergrads:
[http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/student-
services/engineer...](http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/student-
services/engineering-coop-career-services/statistics/upload/2009-CS-PGR.pdf)

People go in all sort of companies from Zynga to Google to Microsoft to NetApp
and to exotic trading companies such as Black Rock and D. E. Shaw .

------
peterzakin
Princeton's the same way. Tremendous amount of engineering talent and we even
benefit from relative proximity to New York, and yet the prevailing campus
culture pushes students towards finance and consulting.

How can that culture change? I can't say for sure, but my hypothesis is that a
hacker culture already exists at Princeton; it's just hidden and untapped. At
the very least these two things could help a university with an untapped
hacker culture:

1\. a hacker house, or at least some defined space to code along like-minded
kids, even if that is nothing more than a dorm room.

2\. student-driven cs curriculum. Princeton's CS program like Cornell's (i'm
taking your word for it) is heavily theory based. There is i believe only one
course on web development. In other departments, students not infrequently
campaign for new classes. I wonder what effect an iphone development class
(for the sake of an example) would have on the campus culture?

------
mturmon
Culturally, Cornell has always been a place that concentrates on theory and
enduring research questions. After Cornell I spent time at Caltech and the
difference in values and focus is large indeed. It seems every Caltech
engineering/science faculty either has co-founded a tech company (successful
or not), or is involved in experimental validation of some of their ideas.

I always thought the reason for Cornell's culture is mainly your point 0 -
isolation from the Real World and from Money. The hippie vibe of Ithaca might
also play a part. But the reason actually does not matter.

It might be best to go along with this current for your time there. Play to
its strengths. Or, as amoore notes, you can find a niche, like in the Theory
Center, where applications are more in the front.

Incidentally, I don't share your feelings in your point 2. But, I was in EE (a
separate silo?)

------
dzlobin
I'm in school in NYC, and my school's hacker culture isn't that great either.
We should organize a large hackaton like NYU did last summer. Any interest?

~~~
zoudini
Yea for sure! Maybe around Winter Break or some time when people would be
free! E-mail me (check profile)

------
noodle
create something. start a club/group/organization and host something like a
startup weekend.

~~~
zoudini
I was planning on doing that, but how do you go about attracting the right
crowd (or any crowd at all for that matter)?

~~~
noodle
you only need to start with a handful of people. find one or two other people
interested who will commit, and you can get it started regardless of who else
shows up.

make sure you don't make it necessarily very CS-specific, either. business and
art people might want to get involved, too, and would be quite useful. random
other people might get a good learning experience on the entire process if
they walk in with "a great idea".

~~~
mturmon
I think the OR&IE people are applications-friendly. The art school at Cornell
is not a strength.

------
zoudini
sidenote: I did not know this but pg went to Cornell. I wonder what it was
like for him then?

~~~
Andrew-Dufresne
It would be great if pg shares it at HN or in an essay. I think it would be
quite beneficial to know his opinion and experiences.

