
Early Retirement May Speed Up Cognitive Decline: Study - spking
https://www.studyfinds.org/if-you-rest-you-rust-study-finds-early-retirement-may-speed-up-cognitive-decline/
======
monster_group
Not only early retirement but any kind of retirement that gets the retiree in
a mode that they don't have to try anymore will result in cognitive decline. I
am seeing this in my dad who has been retired for ten years now. Throughout
his work life he was a sharp hard working banker. Now he uses his age and
retirement as an excuse for not trying. Just yesterday he wanted me to order
something for him from Amazon. I told him to send me the link to the item. He
asked me how to do that. I told him if you can't find the Share link just copy
the link and send it to me. He responds by saying that he doesn't know how to
do copy-paste. He has been using computers for at least the last fifteen
years. I asked him how come he didn't know how to copy-paste. His response was
- I am retired now and there's nobody to tell me or teach me. I can see the
cognitive decline. Things he used to be able to do, he can't anymore. This
type of attitude is also affecting his self respect and confidence.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
I guess this is why you should work less hard and do more to cultivate
hobbies. I can’t imagine retiring and doing nothing. So many projects.

~~~
Daynil
I don't understand how so many people can anchor their lives to work. If you
do that, when you retire, you've lost your meaning of life. I have a list of
things a mile long that I just can't get to because 40 hours a week is already
spoken for. Early retirement speeds cognitive decline? Maybe if you sit on the
beach and/or watch TV all day long, but that sounds kind of miserable if done
for more than a few weeks.

~~~
um_ya
Some of us see work as the meaning of life. Traveling and doing things just
for the _experience_ alone seems kind of meaningless. Great for vacation, but
not great for long term goals. Perhaps if you're at a dead end job, then work
might feel meaningless, I agree.

~~~
cj
To the people downvoting this: why is this an unreasonable perspective?

The commenter isn't advocating one way or another, only pointing out that
there are people that exist who are content with work as their self-perceived
life meaning.

I can absolutely see how this can be true for people in the sciences. There
are many academics who devote their entire career - and often their life - to
finding the answer to extremely difficult problems. For those people, I
imagine they must feel their work as more of a _life mission_ rather than a
regular job necessary to pay the bills.

There are a lot of people who find significant meaning in their work (perhaps
greater meaning in their work than they've been able to find outside of it).
That doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or unhealthy.

These type of people may be few and far between. But they exist.

~~~
dickeytk
I don't even think you need to be in the sciences. Perhaps it's a result of a
protestant upbringing, but I grew up in blue-collar America where virtually
everyone was a tradesman. If I may generalize: these are people that while
they might complain and dislike _going_ to work, they feel deep satisfaction
about contributing back to society.

Or maybe it's that with trades you have a direct connection to the work you do
and the effect it has on the world.

Either way I think we could learn something from them. White collar types seem
to want to avoid work at all costs. Work isn't to be avoided. In fact if you
measure your life by how much it affects others, it's probably the most
important part of your life.

~~~
2muchcoffeeman
As a developer, I feel a deep disconnect between the work I do and any
results. At home I make things and I get way more satisfaction from designing
a simple 3D object that serves a function and printing it out.

I can see why tradesmen may have better job satisfaction. You can directly
improve the life of someone else.

------
dexwiz
Sitting around May Speed Up Cognitive Decline.

Both my Grandfathers retired shortly before seventy. One sat down in his Chair
and did not get up. He ignored his health, and passed within 10 years.

The other is highly active in his community and church, still gardens, and
travels constantly. He is in his mid 80s with no sign of slowing down. Barring
a major health incident, he will live well into his 90s like his mother, and
may pass 100.

Not doing anything is bad for your health, both physical and mental. The
effects are exacerbated when you are older, but are still prevalent when
younger.

~~~
ericmcer
My dad always refers to his body in a similar manner to how one would refer to
a car, I.E. “too much mileage on me”, “I walked a lot so now my knees are worn
out”. I wonder if their generation has a more simplistic view of our bodies as
mechanical things.

~~~
varjag
The joints do get worn out with the age tho..

~~~
belltaco
What's the best way to preserve them

~~~
0xfeba
Never use them.

Truthfully I believe it's strength training that actually helps keep them up.
Could be wrong.

~~~
huherto
IMHO. Moderate strength, moderate cardio, Moderate mobility. Mobility in
particular may improve blood irrigation on the joints and help regeneration.

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infinite_luck
This is something I think about a lot. I plan to never stop doing mentally
stimulating activities, even in my old age. The difference you can see in
cognitive ability between the elderly is staggering.

One particular instance that sticks in my mind was a video filmed in the UK
where for some unrelated reason four older men and women were interviewed,
with ages ranging between 80 and the low 100's. The mid 80 year old had
trouble recalling information, spoke slowly, and generally seemed to exist in
a fog so thick you could practically see it. On the other hand, the person
around 100 was completely lucid, maybe even sharper than me! I can't say for
sure that this is due to keeping busy and not partially genetic as well, but
the variability really struck me.

~~~
fooblitzky
My understanding is that social activities are even more important than
mentally stimulating activities.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
I wonder how that tallies up for introverts vs extroverts. Personally I'd
rather stick sharpened pencils in my eyes than partake in social activities
with a bunch of other retirees.

~~~
WhompingWindows
How introverts are poking their mental decline in the eye!

------
rq1
Pierre Bourdieu would put into perspective notions of work/activity and
retirement.

So he was interviewing if I recall people from North Africa, some were used to
western industrial work and others not. (He wasn’t aware of that yet)

He asked them if they worked lately. Those who knew industrial work said no or
partly and the others yes.

He asked both groups what they did during their typical working days. The «
no/partly group » described some kind of chain/industrial work and
unemployment traps.

The « yes/busy group » said their typical work day was to discuss with their
wives during 2 or 3 hours, attend and assist in solving the disagreements
between neighbours in the public place of the village... etc.

Taking care of their animals and fields was not that time consuming or
exhausting (subsistence agriculture).

In western societies, most of the socialisation and interactions happen in the
work and professional environment. So what would one expect from « retirement
»?

~~~
diminoten
What does that say about heavy Internet users and how they're going to age?

~~~
novok
They will argue endlessly on twitter & HN equivalents and maybe resolve an
argument or two.

------
mark_l_watson
I hope not, I recently retired. Still, the idea makes some sense. In
retirement, I try to read one paper a day (usually deep learning, PGM, or
classic AI), play at least one game of Go and Chess, do some recreational
programming, and read. But, I don’t work into a state of brain-tiredness
anymore like I used to at work.

~~~
radicalbyte
Do you exercise? Lifting weights regularly (3 x week) and getting some light
cardio every day will help keep your body strong into your retirement. It
dramatically reduces the chance of getting injured by a fall and will keep you
healthly and happy longer.

I'm approaching 40 and have built it into my schedule after several years of
doing little and I'm feeling great for it. Next year we're moving to a large
house and I'm going to have a small gym in the garage so I can keep to a tight
schedule (I miss too much training because of having young kids).

~~~
mark_l_watson
I hike at least ten hours a week (I live in the mountains) and go to the gym
once a week. Your advice is excellent. My Dad is in good shape at 98 and he
does thirty minutes of Canadian Airforce Exercises early each morning (he
started doing this in 1964).

------
ruminasean
My experience with both my parents was "I retired and I don't want to use my
brain anymore," and they have both definitely experienced decline since
retirement. Some of my friends' parents, however, have adopted more of a "I'm
retired and now I can dedicate all my brainpower to these special projects
I've always wanted to focus my energy on." These people have mostly declined
not at all or very little. I think the answer is not to retire and go rot in a
chair while taking 5 naps a day.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
Consider that the reason they don't want to use their brains is that they
don't seem to work effectively, but they don't want to admit they have some
cognitive decline.

Like not wanting to go to a social function because you find them hard, one
might say "I'm tired" or offer some other excuse because putting your failing
on show is difficult too, the moreso when you're already smarting from a
knock-back (being confronted with another failure).

------
irrational
My dad is a doctor in his 70s. He works 60 hour weeks (which he claims counts
as retirement for doctors). He truly believes that true retirement is suicide.
He wants to be found dead while doing rounds at the hospital.

~~~
sys_64738
I work to live not live to work.

~~~
PeterisP
I can certainly imagine having meaningful work that's the purpose of life, not
just a source of funding for other activities. It's definitely not the case
for many (probably most) people, but it _is_ that way for some; there's
probably a correlation with "high-status" jobs.

For the OP example of a doctor, it's quite plausible that their social and
ethical goal in life is healing people and their home life is just there to
support their work; instead of wanting to (for example) play golf and having
to heal people for money to support that. Or for example, did Feynman work on
physics in order to "live" or was that work a goal in itself?

------
neogodless
It'd be interesting to better understand the control for this research.

The main premise here is that "those receiving pension benefits" (i.e. no
longer working) have faster cognitive decline. But is there a correlation
between the kind of work you did and receiving a pension? Perhaps the word
"pension" means something a bit different here, but in U.S. English, we
usually use it to mean a company-sponsored retirement plan, and that is
something that is less common than it once was.

Could it be that if you had a job where you knew you'd get a pension, maybe
you didn't have to try very hard while you were working? That is, maybe you
spent the last decade coasting and taking it easy before you retired.

All of this could be invalid speculation if they just mean "retirement
benefits" of any kind?

~~~
waterhouse
Yeah, that was my first question: Is this not just a hopelessly confounded
correlational study? I was disappointed that the article didn't seem to talk
about this.

Well, at least it links to the paper, so here's a starting point: "In this
paper, we estimate the causal effect of the NRPS program on cognition among
individuals ages 60 and above. The expansion of the program affected an easily
identifiable group, as the policy was introduced only in select areas. Our
identification employs a triple difference (DDD) strategy. We exploit the
staggered policy implementation between 2009 and 2013 and compare the
cognitive outcomes of individuals 60 years and older who live in areas that
implemented the NRPS program to the cognitive outcomes of individuals of the
same age group who live in areas that did not implement the NRPS program."

------
JamesBarney
The much more likely cause is people who are aging poorly are more likely to
retire.

My grandmother retired then experienced sharp mental decline. For a long time
I thought her retirement caused the sharp mental decline. But looking back at
it after learning about dementia, and talking with other family members she
retired because she was experiencing mental decline which was the predecessor
to dementia.

------
cevn
Anecdotally, my grandfather is 92 or so and still works as a journalist
(reduced hours). He is still super sharp and does yoga every day. Blows my
mind.

~~~
mark_l_watson
My Dad is 98, retired when he was about 80. He is still very sharp mentally,
but has taken on hobbies like video production and 3D animation. Hopefully
hobbies count towards brain health.

~~~
miketuritzin
There's nothing special about a job! If anything, I'd believe that someone who
had the drive to do challenging activities on their own (and engage socially
with others) is doing more for their mind and body than someone clocking in
and out at a boring job.

------
meed
I feel that my cognitive abilities, along with my overall mental state, to be
steeply declining.

And I'm a senior software guy in a big Valley corp.

Probably the real priority here is to find one's "happy place" and stay there
as long as it stay that way.

~~~
onemoresoop
You don't mention your actual age so if you're not past 50, maybe you're just
bored or slightly depressed?

------
thematt
I've been wondering lately about whether video games will have any impact on
this for future retirees. Anecdotally, I think today's teens/20/30/40 year-
olds spend more time playing video games (whether solo or as part of their
social interaction) than the current generation of retirees. Theoretically
that may be one more tool to keep someone's brain sharp after they retire.

Have there been any studies about video games and their effect on maintaining
cognitive function?

------
BurningFrog
How do you separate this from the surely non zero "cognitive decline causes
early retirement" effect?

------
llsf
Anecdote: My grandma retired in her 60's, she is now 102. She used to own a
bar, in France (you can imagine the secondhand smoke, back in the 60-70's).
She is mentally sharp, although the last couple of years, she is napping more.
Vision (always had issue) and hearing (super annoying now) are declining, but
memory is still here, and with hearing aid, the conversation is fine (if you
do not mind repeating sometimes).

So got retired for about 4 decades now (she lost my grandpa at the same time,
it is crazy she lived ~40 years with him, and ~40 years without him). Even
though she was not "working" (i.e. for a salary) in the past 40 years, she
always kept herself busy, taking care of her house until 2 years ago when she
went to assisted living place (not ideal, but it was becoming too dangerous
for her to stay by herself past 100 years old). She like to do stationary bike
until her 90's.

Her daughter (now 82 yo) has some sort of Alzheimer, and does not have any
short memory or facial recognition. Strangely enough she does have very old
memories that looks current to her e.g. she warned us that we need to hide
from the Germans... second world war trauma I guess, but interesting how it is
still in her memory, when she cannot remember what she ate for lunch. So, for
a while like until 5 years ago, my grandma (97yo at the time) was taking care
of my aunty (77yo at the time), and was schooling her to make here remember of
things. That was weird to witness... My aunty retired in her 60's too, did not
exercise more than normal, but was always active maintaining a large house
after her 5 kids left home. She worked in a hair salon for about 50 years
(started at 16yo). I always wondered if hair products (ammonia, spray, etc.)
did not play a role in the current situation.

I have no idea how much exercise can slow down the decline, but there is more
than just exercise. Clearly I would put my grandma as a "fighter" spirit
person. She was born in an extremely poor family (alcohol issue, ending her as
an orphan), in Brest, France which was where the Spanish flu started in
Europe, in 1918 (she was one year old). She is a tough cookie, in a frail
body. She is short and always been kinda skinny, probably the result of
malnutrition in her early years. But yet, here she is a century later. To be
fair, she is a bit tired to be around, and see everyone around her either die
or getting some sort of Alzheimer. Now she is friend with her kids friends,
since all of her generation friends are not there anymore. It is kinda cute to
see her talking to my dad's childhood friends who are in their 70's or 80's
now, recalling some mischiefs that happened 60 or 70 years ago.

~~~
onemoresoop
My grandmother had Alzheimer. Before the major decline she would remember
things from her kindergarten, recite songs and things that even she was
surprised she remembered.

------
ak39
I've always benchmarked post-retiring cognitive abilities and professional
continuity with Noam Chomsky. He is my hero in that aspect too. If I can
continue to do what I do now at his age, I'm ready for the off.

------
imgabe
Alternative explanation: decades of work destroy internal motivation and leave
people directionless in the absence of someone to tell them what to do

~~~
nnq
1000x times this!

------
paulcole
To me the problem is that entire generations have tied their worth/sense of
self into what they do from 9-5. The idea of stopping that is so anathema to
them that they just can't handle it.

It's really sad to not be able to enjoy downtime in my opinion.

~~~
neogodless
If I understand you correctly, your premises are:

that most people base their identity on their work; when people stop working,
losing their identity, they experience faster cognitive decline.

It's not clear to me what your frame of reference is for the second premise,
though. How does having or losing identity maintain or diminish cognitive
decline?

EDIT: Two downvotes but no one is providing a source or some educational
material to help me understand the science behind the premise. Let's be
constructive here and try to educate each other. Thank you!

------
all_blue_chucks
Better headline: Cognitive Decline Prompts Earlier Retirement

~~~
sachdevap
Is there a reason you believe that the causality should be reversed? The
article suggests they did tests post retirement and observed the rate of
decline.

~~~
whatshisface
Someone with health declining over a long period will retire and withdraw from
everything, and then later on be tested to find that their health has been
declining I think you will find that most retired people are dead, just by
virtue of the fact that all dead people retire!

~~~
sachdevap
The study talks of rate of subsequent cognitive decline post retirement.
There's no fixed state, which once reached, people start retiring. I think the
study does control for reverse causality. It is not a correlational study.

------
kchoudhu
Not surprising. I took a couple of years out to raise my kids, and I am having
a hard time feeling as intelligent and proactive as I did before the break.

~~~
JohnFen
Interesting. I did the same, but returned refreshed and sharper than before.

However, 10 years or so ago I suffered from major burnout, and my brainpower
has yet to fully recover.

------
driverdan
Here's the actual PR: [https://www.binghamton.edu/news/story/2117/research-
shows-th...](https://www.binghamton.edu/news/story/2117/research-shows-that-
early-retirement-can-accelerate-cognitive-decline)

And the study (PDF):
[http://ftp.iza.org/dp12524.pdf](http://ftp.iza.org/dp12524.pdf)

I haven't read the whole study but it seems like it's pure correlation, is
missing some controls, and has suspect conclusions.

They claim

> We find large and significant negative effects of the provision of pension
> benefits on cognitive functioning among the elderly.

That's correlation. They're claiming that giving people money reduces
cognitive function which is ridiculous. Eliminating cognitive activities and
meaning could reduce cognitive function, giving people pensions would not.

They didn't seem to have any controls for post retirement activity. All they
controlled for was age, gender, and other medical conditions.

------
JohnFen
According to the study, it sounds like the cause is not early retirement, but
a decrease in the amount of social and mental activities.

Those two things don't have to go hand in hand. Personally, I'm looking
forward to retirement because it will afford me more time to engage in social
and mental activities.

------
ChuckMcM
I suppose this applies to people who think of "retirement" as being sedentary
and not challenging your brain. We need a word for what people in my social
group who no longer have to collect a paycheck do, which is embark on things
that either teach a new skill, have low probability of payback, or are
intellectually challenging for the fun of it.

It isn't "work" in that you don't have to put in time at someone else's
business and sign over all your work product to them, but it isn't casual
leisure either.

------
wensley
I've had a similar experience just from going on a 2 week beach holiday.
Getting back to work was really hard, I remember staring at the screen full of
code that I wrote without any idea of what it all meant. It took some real
effort and breaking things down into tiny steps to get back into it.

------
stubish
“For cognition among the elderly, it looks like the negative effect on social
engagement far outweighed the positive effect of the program on nutrition and
sleep”

As a telecommuter, I wonder if I can slow my cognitive decline by retiring? I
will need to avoid falling into the old solitary habits. And wear pants.

------
PeterStuer
I can't help but wonder if all the well intentioned advise here by 20-40
yearolds to their grandparents about how to live their retirement to them
sounds the same as a 16yo advicing those here on middle age life decisions.

------
tmm84
My personal anecdotes are many but most of the elderly that I knew to be
highly active, sociable and of sound mind were people who did stuff that was
engaging and social. The only real limiting factor for the elderly that I knew
well was when they had health problems (falls, stroke, heart attack, etc.)
that they didn't recover from due to age.

I would suggest that if you see retirement in your future then getting a long
lasting hobby (gardening, wood working, etc), a simple side job or even
volunteering (hospitals need volunteers for so many things) to make retirement
a period where your mind/body is used.

------
chpmrc
The title is kind of misleading, in fact the article's second last paragraph
ends with: "Or alternatively, the kinds of things that matter and determine
better health might simply be very different than the kinds of things that
matter for better cognition among the elderly. Social engagement and
connectedness may simply be the single most powerful factors for cognitive
performance in old age."

Point being: if you're wealthy enough you should care more about spending time
with the people you love than how long it takes you to solve a Sudoku.

------
brohoolio
I wonder if subtle cognitive decline leads to early retirement.

------
bariswheel
Not if you have hobbies that require mental exercise and effort. Go try out a
bunch of stuff, stick to a few of them, see yourself improve, rinse and
repeat.

------
aszantu
Retirement leads to boredom maybe and thus unhealthy eating habits. The
hippocampus seems to be affected by too much insulin and sugar. This said,
people in elderly homes in Germany are getting carb-loaded. Low fat, high carb
meals and apple juice a lot of them take medications against high cholesterol.
they are suffering from all the sugar related illnesses what's the brain made
of? Fat and cholesterol...

------
kamaal
My grandfather and father-in-law have both got dementia in 2 years after their
retirement. My Father even got heart disease after retirement.

I have long believed not working or not being active both physically and
mentally is harmful to one's health.

Keep yourself occupied in some way or the other. Human mind and body needs
some engagement to work well. Too much of rest is as harmful as fatigue.

------
hastes
The child in me wonders if something like video games (i.e. StarCraft
II/DotA/LoL/Card games, something with strategy and thinking) would be a way
to fight this onset of cognitive decline in retired folks.

It would be interesting to see a study of retired folks from the millennial
generation, providing they play much more games than older generations.

~~~
Phenomenit
My view is that games help you become better at playing games. A while ago a
lot of people said that doing crossword puzzles was a good way to keep your
mind sharp but it's not really the case. The elderly who did a lot s puzzles
just got good at doing puzzles.

~~~
erikpukinskis
One key difference between (many) games and crosswords is the presence of a
human opponent.

------
ScottBurson
Never retire. If you retire, you're just waiting to die.

They'll have to pry my keyboard from my cold, dead fingers.

------
sloopy543
I would like to think I might experience a cognitive acceleration when I
retire. No more bullshit occupying my mind. No need to meditate to stop
thinking about such-and-such shitty interaction at work. Hoping to get my mind
back so I can do things more creative than whatever is in the JIRA.

------
ivanhoe
I'd still love to take that risk...

------
perseusprime11
I think this is not just limited to cognitive decline but I heard cases where
people start suddenly contracting all kinds of diseases upon retirement. Goes
on to show the both mental and physical exercise is key to our long term
survival.

------
ngcc_hk
Simple test: if you do this one minute later does it matter any other thing.
None? You will start lazy and all way down.

We do thing at the margin. We stay sharp for that. It is not work or
collegiate. But at the margins, the moment ...

------
modeless
> among adults over the age of 60

This study has a different definition of "early retirement" than I do. I don't
think the conclusions are applicable to FIRE people planning to retire in
their thirties.

~~~
loeg
It's a study of elderly Chinese.

------
RickJWagner
My mother was widowed in her 50s, worked until she was 67. Her advice? "Don't
retire too early. You'll just get bored."

I know it's good advice, but it's hard to want to follow it.

------
ilkan
Whether retirement was voluntary or forced, the health of the person at
retirement time and social/vocational continuity could be bigger factors than
the act of retirement itself.

------
alg0rith
You forgot to say IN MICE

------
calahad
Excellent, something I definitely don't have to worry about.

------
holdenc
More anecdotal...my mother-in-law is mid-70s. Retired for the last 20 years.
Plays mahjong all day. Sharp as a tack, along with her mahjong friends.

~~~
VladimirIvanov
I plan to study and play chess and go once I retire. I also want to contribute
to OSS. I think if you engage in truly intellectually challenging activities
daily then you will be lucid for your entire life. The brain needs stimulation
like a muscle in order to retain its ability over time.

------
ddgflorida
Did you also read the study that said you may live longer if you retire
earlier? I think the key is to stay physically and mentally active.

------
tempsy
Yeah I'm on a few months break from working and the most unexpected downside
is the uptick in existential dread I've experienced.

~~~
pbhjpbhj
I'll anti-anecdote that. I've just started working a steady office job again
after a 15 year "break" (mostly non-office work; raising kids) and existential
dread is eating me. I had a couple of months interim and despite being dirt-
poor in that time (no income practically) had no dread at all; too little time
to get existential!

~~~
dredmorbius
1\. Raising kids is work.

2\. It may be that it's the change in routine and identity is what's dread-
inducing, more than the "work" (traditional/office/wage-labour) vs. "not work"
distinction.

------
newnewpdro
The act of retiring to do nothing is so foreign to me.

I take long sabbaticals from employment so I can actually work on harder
problems and unfamiliar domains I'd struggle to do professionally if I could
even get hired at all to do for money. That and spend more time on my physical
fitness while still being able to sleep enough and study other things.

Retirement where people just shut down is no different than a scheduled form
of burnout.

------
aj7
One fifth of a standard deviation? Can’t be separated from self-selection
effects.

------
chiefalchemist
While there are certainly degenerative diseases, "use it, or lose it" also
holds true for the brain. And whether it's TV or Facebook, junk food is junk
food.

The mind is no different than the body. In fact, the mind is probably more
sensitive to neglect.

------
stared
"You live as long as you learn"

------
bussiere
maybe videogame could be a way to moderate this especially puzzle video game
or brain teaser video game;

------
vesche
This seems like a no-brainer to me... _slaps knee_

------
sigmonsays
age old saying "Use it or lose it"

------
adamnemecek
This is communist/capitalist propaganda.

------
newnewpdro
"Use it or lose it" is not a new discovery.

~~~
topmonk
That's why I keep smoking. Those lungs deserve a workout!

