

Ask HN: Do startups need analysts? What can this 26-year-old semi-generalist do? - confusalyst

I'm looking for advice, suggestions and/or guidance from the learned community here.  This is a throwaway account, as I'm a contributor under my real name…<p>A quick profile: 26-year-old CS graduate. Two jobs to-date: Five years in a medium-sized specialist financial organisation and just starting my second job in one of the largest banks in the world.  I started my career as a developer before realising that it was not where my expertise lies.  I'm now a business/systems analyst… and a damn good one, even if I do say so myself.<p>However, I prefer to think of myself as a generalist: I love marketing, design, psychology, and hundreds of other subjects.  I read and write voraciously on these topics in my free time.  I can feel the $75,000 a year sucking away slowly at my soul and have always loved the startup scene.  It's always been a long-term goal, but for the last couple of years I've been eager yet unsure how to proceed for a relatively simple reason:<p>I read advice to those wanting to go into the startup world here often. However it is almost exclusively aimed at programmers.  Nobody seems to discuss analysis.  Is this a field that only small-to-large (non-lean) companies employ?  Are we needed in startups?<p>For reference, I've found these slightly helpful but they still show a programming bias: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1447747 (and the comment http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1448145) and http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1438489
======
waxman
At a start-up there are at most only two roles:

Can you build it? Or can you sell it?

In tech start-ups, building it means coding, and that might be only role early
on.

"Selling it" is broader than pure sales (E.g. Selling it to investors, to non-
paying users, to bloggers, etc.), but you need a track record in selling (I.e.
Not "analysis" or "marketing").

There's a reason why there is a programming bias: programming is 90% of the
work at an early stage consumer web company. So get back to coding, or try
something other than start-ups, because there is no job for an 'analyst' at a
start-up (or a community manager, or a head of product, or a COO, or any other
job that isn't building or selling).

~~~
confusalyst
Well, sales isn't a million miles away from some of my responsibilities now.
Given that I couldn't build any of my ideas within even a half-decent time-
frame I guess I'll need to co-found with a decent coder if I'm looking to
start on my own.

For other stages I guess I'll need to expand on any sales-type work I do now
while concentrating on my more general business skills.

~~~
waxman
Actually, to be blunt, if it's not _sales_ it might as well be a million miles
away.

Startups need people who build, who create, who do. Things like "strategy",
setting up deals, introductions, "almost sales", etc. are, by themselves,
worthless at a young company.

My advice to you would be this:

Learn to code, or, don't do a tech start-up.

I think it's a little bizarre that people without technical skills (or startup
skills) feel compelled or even entitled to start a tech company. These are
specific, hard skills (not unlike law or medicine), and if you don't have them
you need to develop them or find another line of work.

You could still start a "technology-enabled" company, like HuffPo (a media
company), or Gilte (a fashion retail company), but you should probably have
specific domain expertise in the non-tech vertical that you want to work with.

If you want to "start the next Facebook", though, (I.e. build a scalable,
virtual product) then I have news for you: if you can't code it, you can't do
it.

~~~
confusalyst
_"I think it's a little bizarre that people without technical skills (or
startup skills) feel compelled or even entitled to start a tech company."_

Don't worry, I have no such ideas of grandeur, only ambition. Although the
lack of startup skills shouldn't be a barrier to starting a startup, right?
After all, isn't that the best way to get the skills?

As for technical skills and tech startups: I agree, and this isn't strictly
what I'm looking for, anyway. I have enough tech skills to hire a good
programmer and to do every-day coding work after the initial core of a system
is completed (by someone with better skills than me). Luckily, knowing this is
an advantage: it puts me a step ahead of the people in my shoes who don't
realise this.

That's great advice in terms of tech startups vs. tech-enabled startups.
Thanks for that.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on roles such as 'advisor'? A friend of
mine started a small tech company a few years ago and asked me for some
advice. Having a good understanding in the theory (that's the CS degree doing
its job) I could tell him what was needed and some possible issues... but I
couldn't _do_ it. That was enjoyable and worthwhile for all involved. I've no
idea how to evolve that, though.

------
thafman
I once had a short conversation with Max Levchin (of PayPal fame) and the one
thing he said that stuck in my mind -besides all the drivel about how Slide
was going to change the world- was that 10% of a start-up's workforce should
be metrics people, obsessed with measuring the company performance i.e. if you
have a ten person start-up, at least one should should be an analyst,
otherwise he said, the company is essentially flying blind.

From my own experience, if you can not only master the technical side of
working with metrics, but be the kind of guy who can actually ask intelligent,
relevant questions and structure them in a way that gets meaningful answers
from raw data, then you are worth your weight in gold to any start-up.

~~~
djb_hackernews
I'd just like to leave a comment here, but I wonder if you misunderstood him.
It seems more practical to me that every employee in a startup should dedicate
time to metrics, and probably more than 10%. For instance, at the last startup
I worked for, the CEO put together metrics useful for VC conversations/sales
metrics etc. The CTO put together metrics on bug fix flow/hardware throughput
etc, the VP of CS put together metrics on turnaround time on customer issues
etc. Our architect kept metrics on time based data throughput.

I think it's a poor use of recources to dedicate one person to do all of that.
The people steering the company at that stage should have a total hands on
feel for the data and a level of indirection seems unnecessary.

I'd like to hear back from founders on this. Were you tracking metrics
yourself? Do you think you were more or less effective that way?

------
andymitchell
To answer the title directly, found a company :)

With a background in CS you have the functional hacker skills needed to create
a first version of something, but you say your energy lies in marketing
skills, so you know what 'something' to build.

I see this as one of the most powerful combinations seen in founders: the
skills to get things done, and the soul to see the big picture of what
problems people need solving.

On the flip side, the problem you have joining in with another startup is that
the founders are often great generalists who need specialist help. Therefore a
business/systems analyst is not an obvious fit with a startup, where the
hacker-founders shoot first and measure later... at least until they've proven
there is _something_ there and they can mature their processes and goals.

~~~
andymitchell
That said, one huge area of interest would be to (re)specialize in "user
experience measuring" to drive product iterations (similar to the hugely
successful Sean Ellis). All startups are concerned with understanding their
customers - and most suck at it - which would make such a role pivotal in
startup success.

------
maxawaytoolong
What is a systems analyst? I've never known what that title meant. What do you
do all day? This is an honest question. Sometimes I wish I could move back to
the Midwest, but there are few (no) job listings for "hackers" in my home
city. There are many for "systems analyst."

~~~
confusalyst
From my experience in the field, an analyst's responsibilities range
considerably between companies (as does the title:
information/business/systems analyst).

My work is an almost perfect mix between what a business analyst and a systems
analyst does, as defined in Wikipedia [1,2].

I spend 50% of my time speaking to people, 50% documenting and modelling
requirements and systems. The people I speak to are either internal business
strategists or external clients (large corporations). In my discussions with
them I need to figure out their needs for new or existing systems and how this
will be implemented.

To some this may sound boring, but I find it fascinating: the difficulty and
enjoyment of the job increases exponentially with the complexity of the
systems involved (perfect when you're in finance).

Anything else, just ask.

[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_analyst> [2]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_analyst>

------
danvoell
I am a corporate generalist who is transitioning to software sales with no
real experience in the field. The only thing I really understand is what our
clients want because I was one of them. Don't categorize yourself. If you are
passionate about a startup, it will show, and you can sell it. I would take
the advice of noahc and start pitching your idea to companies who would want
it, ask how much they would be willing to pay for it and hold them to it.
"Bootstrapping your business" is a good book and describes how Greg Gianforte
sold a product before he had one.

~~~
confusalyst
"Don't categorize yourself." Good point. I should let others do that, if they
so desire.

I am passionate about it and when the need arises I am able to get this
across. I'll take your advice (and noahc's) and pitch what I can do, if only
to get some feedback to iteratively improve myself and my skills for the
future. Being a corporate generalist is an asset in some respects as there are
things that I'm good at that are in demand. I need to work on identifying this
and selling it, I guess.

'Bootstrapping Your Business', ordered.

------
Construct
Consider getting in touch with a venture capital firm that specializes in
technology startups. Often, it doesn't make sense for each company to have a
full-time analyst. Instead, it makes a lot of sense for the VC firm to have a
handful of analysts that work part-time for a number of the portfolio
companies.

I've worked at a couple VC-funded startups where the VCs had us hire one of
their analysts part-time. The only catch is that you must prove yourself to
the VC firm first, which usually requires a strong track record and good
networking skills.

------
jobmatchbox
You should have no problem finding a job, but you need to decide where you
want to be. Something lead you down the path that planted you in a banking
environment in the first place. The issue might be that you don't like working
in an environment like that as a programmer or that you like the security of
working for an environment like that. If that is you then own it. If not then
there is life after the 9-5 corporate culture for you. For starters, you are a
technical person who wants to do marketing, design and psychology. If that is
what you want to do then you have a few really good options. You can work as a
product manager (though this is something that you may have to get more
experience to do well), as a designer or user interface developer (there is a
line somewhere between programmer and user experience architect that many
people find to be comfortable), or as a technical marketing person. The
technical marketing role might be one of the most rewarding to you based on
your experience to date. You have to be able to work with lots of data and be
very technical, but you still have to get into the strategy and execution.
There is a lot to learn and do there. Whatever you do - good luck. If you
would like to chat about this offline I'm @jobmatchbox - send me a note and we
can go from there. I know a few people who might be interested in talking
about their experiences with you.

------
GBond
The reason why advice here is almost exclusively aimed at programmers is
because HN is bias towards startups that make stuff that are byproducts of the
software discipline.

Startups that focus on Web/saas/cloud are getting a lot of attention lately
but by no means is this your only path. Maybe consider a career arch that will
value what you would like to focus your energy (research, writing, &
marketing)?

For example, I've notice a growing trend of upstart industry analysis boutique
shops that are taking market share from the Gartner/forrester/Juniper research
mafia. Some examples are redmonk (developers) and altimetergroup (social
media). The high value workers of these companies are the analysts (that like
tech) and not the hackers.

Bottom line is don't limit build/succeed of a startup to just being a hacker.

------
edw519
_I'm now a business/systems analyst..._

I hate to break the news to you, but you describe yourself with a job title
that's pretty much exclusive to the enterprise world. For the most part,
start-ups don't really have a place for "business/system analysts". Let me
explain...

School of Thought A: Call it SDLC (Systems Development Life Cycle), the
project approach, or the waterfall approach goes something like this: Define a
need, conduct analysis to answer the question "What", conduct design to answer
the question "How", program, test, program, test, compare to the Functional
Specs from the Analysis Phase, conduct User Acceptance Testing, promote,
deploy, repeat anything as required. The more rigorous the documentation and
project management, the better.

School of Thought B: Build something ASAP. Get it out there ASAP. Get feedback
ASAP. Iterate indefinitely.

For the most part (I'm sure there are many counter-examples), enterprises
employ School of Thought A and Start-Ups employ School of Thought B. There
simply isn't a need for systems analysis in School of Thought B. By the time
you're done analyzing, someone else is servicing the customers you wanted.

My advice: Combine a love for building stuff with your love of systems
analysis. They go perfectly together. In fact, we now have a name for that:
"programmer/analyst".

The systems analyst who can code is a better systems analyst because he can
test/evaluate his ideas.

The programmer who can conduct analysis is a better programmer because he
knows what to work on.

This may not be what you wanted to hear, but you're in a perfect position to
do both, so do it.

~~~
confusalyst
This is exactly as I suspected, so thank you for confirming this.

"The systems analyst who can code is a better systems analyst because he can
test/evaluate his ideas." This is something I have found from my personal
experience and I'm glad I had that background. It truly has helped. Anyone
reading this can count this as solid advice.

Moving into programmer/analyst territory is something I've considered only
briefly and I'll look at it in greater detail. By brushing up on my dormant
programming skills I guess the worst that'll happen is I'll become better at
my current job. Never a bad thing.

~~~
d_mcgraw
I'm a programmer/analyst at a startup. It is a fun job. I'm always jumping
between tasks and have a million things going on all at once. For me, the job
is ~70% programming, ~25% analysis, ~5% other. That will certainly very
depending on the company and responsibilities, but thats probably a good model
of the work from what I've seen. If thats your cup of tea (sure is mine) then
I would say this would be a great way to go. There are downfalls though; if
you go the startup route that is. More then likely you will be making less
then corporate and the hours may be more erratic to, but that depends on
corporate culture. I would say give it a shot if your curious.

------
tlack
If I were you I'd contact a lot of the smaller startups you hear about on here
and see if they need someone to take care of their Google Analytics,
especially integrating Facebook Insights data, conversion analysis/funnel,
short link campaigns (inbound from Twitter) etc. Propose A/B testing scenarios
and work with their engineers to make it happen.

Produce real-world reports and suggest next steps. Be sure to "own" the data
and branding by producing your own Excel spreadsheets that contain an
amalgamation of all the different data sources, and understand their business
enough to personalize it to their industry, i.e., ecommerce revenue vs.
freemium signups lost to competitors.

Most importantly: be sure to budget your time properly so you can bill
accurately.

------
dageroth
Analysis is a hot field, so although most startups don't need a full-fledged
Business Analyst your knowledge should enable you to spot an opportunity in
this sector and to use your knowledge to create something to make analysis for
companies easier - or for other analysts. If you are such a fine one and your
fellow analysts are not, what can you do, to make them better at their job?

You still need a programmer if you want to create some software, but still
you'd have quite a place in a startup as the entrepreneur developing the idea
and the business.

~~~
confusalyst
This is something I'm currently looking into. I have actually spotted a market
for something that will make a small aspect of analysis easier. In discussions
with analysts at other big companies I notice that they also struggle with the
same issues.

There is a lot of competition in the area, but the products are all from bulky
enterprise applications that are not quite suitable to the task.

Your comment has made me think that I should flesh this idea out a bit more
and hire a decent programmer in the early days to lay some decent foundations
to this idea.

------
martingordon
I work for a startup that sells software to big banks and my role is somewhere
in the middle of dev and analysis. Depending on the phase of the project, I do
everything from development to analysis to project management.

We work with big banks but are a small company and so I get to experience both
worlds, which is great for me because I haven't figured out which one I hate
more :-)

We have offices in NYC and South Jersey and are hiring, so if you're looking
to make a change, shoot me an email and I can give you more background on the
company.

~~~
confusalyst
That definitely sounds like a direction I would be interested in pursuing: I
do miss programming (it's now a free-time hobby) and PM work is something I'm
intrigued enough with to try for a while.

While I'm not looking for a change right now, I'll be in contact: this route
sounds promising.

------
rwhitman
Here's an idea - you could do consulting work and focus on startups. Metrics
are becoming increasingly notable as an important part of running a startup. I
imagine that your skills are useful to some folks who are on the fence or
don't have the budget to hire fulltime staff for analytics. The experience you
would gain from this would probably translate into the kind of job you want
pretty quickly

------
bbuffone
There are roles at companies for these skill but they are not a newly founded
startup. Once the company has reached about 30 people there will be a need for
more generalized skills typically in the business/sales side of the company as
sales engineers/consultants.

------
charlesju
The two main jobs that we have or had open were QA Lead and Game Designer.
Both jobs did not require CS degrees and paid decently. There are a lot of
jobs like these out there, you just have to the look for the medium size
startups.

------
far33d
You could become a PM @ Zynga.

------
noahc
You haven't talked about anything you've done to act on this desire.

Have you made e-mail pitches to 10 - 15 people/companies offering your
services?

What type of reception or feedback did you get from that?

------
newy
drop me a line. email in profile

------
earl
Depending on what you mean by analysis, plenty of startups have them,
including two I've worked for. No names here because apparently every word I
say represents all employers, past, present, and future : rolleyes :

Nonetheless, in slightly larger -- 30-40+ people -- startups, there is often a
need for someone who is good with sql or whatever datastore you have, who can
make reports. That sounds a little bland, but it can range from asking and
answering questions like how effective is our SEO or SEM, what advertising is
giving us the best response, predicting churn rates for customers, etc. Good
luck.

If you want to talk to the analyst at my current employer, hit me up over
email. She's not a personal friend, though, so I can't promise anything but an
intro.

