
Scenes from a militarized America - jamesbritt
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/02/04/scenes-from-a-militarized-america-iowa-family-terrorized/
======
ggreer
As I said yesterday[1], I think we've reached the point where better
enforcement of laws harms more than it helps. A big reason for this is that
"crime" is a very broad subject, covering everything from vagrancy to murder.
Measures that might make sense against violent crime end up being used for
minor violations.

Similar to how firefighters, EMTs, and police are separate agencies with
different uniforms and vehicles, I wish police were split into violent and
non-violent crime departments. It would solve quite a few problems. First, we
could have something more nuanced than the typical "cops are bad"/"cops are
good" debate. Second, we might see decreases in some types of crime, since
minor criminals wouldn't fear informing the Department of Homicide. (Similar
to how nobody fears calling the fire department if there's a fire.) Lastly, it
would make it obvious where budgets were being spent. Most taxpayers are fine
with throwing money at law enforcement, because they think it's preventing
violent crime. If they saw how much was going to the Department of Vice, they
might have other ideas.

Sadly, I doubt this will ever happen. These agencies are too big to change in
any reasonable time frame.

1\.
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7172857](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7172857)

~~~
unabridged
>Sadly, I doubt this will ever happen. These agencies are huge and there's
just too much inertia to change them.

This is the power of a 3rd party winning the presidency. All of this force
falls under the executive branch whose policy can be changed in an instant.

Don't think of it as impossible, 20 years ago Ross Perot received around 20%
of the vote. All it takes is someone 3 times more "popular" than Ross Perot.

~~~
harshreality
It's possible, but extremely unlikely due to the game theory of Plurality
Voting or IRV (in countries/regions which have switched to that) both of which
are bad, yet overwhelmingly used for single-winner elections (like, for
selecting a president, or in some countries for selecting a single
representative per voting district).

[http://rangevoting.org/Duverger.html](http://rangevoting.org/Duverger.html)

There's a political science term called a _realigning election_ , but it
involves a radical change to a party, or the displacement of at least one of
the two dominant parties with a new party, after which elections go back to a
two-party-dominated playing field for a while; a _persistent_ 3-or-more party
system is not viable without changing voting systems.

~~~
specialist
_" IRV which are bad"_

Did you mean first past the post (FPTP) aka winner takes all?

In election reform circles, IRV refers to instant runoff voting.

~~~
nitrogen
PV is the same as FPTP. IRV is very nearly as bad, and perhaps worse due to
monotonicity. See [http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/](http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/)

------
memracom
Reminds me of scenes from a Russian TV series about life in Moscow under
Stalin. At any moment a bunch of guys dressed in black could burst in, arrest
people, cart away papers etc. and there was no recourse. This was the NKVD,
later called the KGB.

Unfortunately, eventually the criminal gangs discovered that they could do the
same thing, and since their victims thought they were cops, the criminals got
away with murder, intimidation, etc. After the fall of the Soviet Union, these
criminals became known as the Russian Mafia and exported their criminal
operations to more lucrative countries like the USA where they still operate
today.

How hard is it for modern criminals to get a hold of uniforms and vehicles to
impersonate a police SWAT team?

~~~
taivare
The underground movie 'Faces of Death' had a scene in which the authorities
showed up to a small village household . In the Eighties, in a eastern block
country (unnamed) .Took the head of household out, and drag & quartered the
guy in front of his family. I forgot the amount ,taxes owed but it was low.Due
to political pressure from the West,the actions were halted.

~~~
darrenkopp
It was less than $2 USD.

------
floatrock
Opposition to turning our police into paramilitary troopers looks like this:
[http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/were-building-a-
domes...](http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/were-building-a-domestic-
army-marine-corps-colonel-before-concord-nh-town-council.html)

After a decade long (non-)war, the US government has a lot of surplus
military-grade equipment they no longer need. By heavily discounting it
through DHS grants, they are allowing small town american sheriffs to buy
Fallujah-grade armored personel carriers. You know, for the teens smoking a
joint and the two murders a year that happen in your 'burbs.

That's what the marine corp colonel in the above video is speaking out
against:

> I saw a picture in the Boston Globe during the Marathon Bombing where there
> was a state police officer– Actually, there were two officers. They both had
> identical helmets, flak jackets, weapons, everything I wore in Iraq, only it
> was all blue. The officer on one side had a big patch on his back that said
> “MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE.” Another officer next to him, his patch said
> “BOSTON POLICE.”

> And so what we’re doing here, and let’s not kid about it, we’re building a
> domestic army...

Any decent person wants a police force. But when the police force starts to
look and behave like paramilitary storm troopers, that's when you start asking
if this is really the land of the free.

~~~
Zigurd
It's all out of scale. You probably know our prison population is 10X to 50X
larger per-capita than most industrialized nations. But upstream of that are
the police, federal agents, and prosecutors. It takes a huge supply chain to
fill that many prisons.

There are 100 Assistant US Attorneys in Massachusetts, a relatively sane place
where the mayor of Boston came out against putting military carbines in every
police car. No wonder they had the time and resources to drive Aaron Swartz to
suicide. Upstream of them there are hundreds of thousands of armed agents of
various federal agencies. That's equivalent to 10 division of soldiers. That's
insane. In most municipalities, police are the #2 expense after schools. Not
recreation. Not road crews. Not anything else.

------
joesmo
The important thing that I do not think most people understand is that this is
routine. It happens every day on numerous occasions across the country.
Unfortunately, it seems that this, along with so much else, has long ago
become part of our society and culture.

Balko's book, "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police
Forces" is a great read about this exact subject. In it he addresses the issue
with many examples and some ideas on how police forces can (and some have)
changed somewhat to use less violent tactics and more community policing
resulting in less crime. That's blasphemy to any politician of course who
cannot be seen as "soft on crime."

The reality is, the "us vs. them" mentality of many citizens nowadays is
likely beyond fixing. That is not to say that there aren't a multitude of
ideas that could work. Indeed, there are many solutions to these problems, but
such solutions will not be pursued.

At least they (I assume) got the address right this time. And the son in the
bathroom should buy a lottery ticket. Perhaps his divine luck in staying alive
(and luck is all that it was) will make him rich as well.

~~~
lostcolony
'The reality is, the "us vs. them" mentality of many citizens nowadays is
likely beyond fixing.'

I think to fix it you need to first fix the "us vs. them" mentality of many
cops.

~~~
joesmo
Totally agree here. The only way to fix it the mentality for police, IMO, is
to legislate police as they will never voluntarily give up the power they
have. Unfortunately, this is one of the things I doubt will ever happen.

------
carsongross
There is an interesting convergence amongst the hard left, libertarians and
old right on police. Really, it's mostly neo-cons and blue-collar dems that
are left in the instinctively pro-cop camp, and blue-collar dems are getting
decimated by the ongoing economic crisis.

Interesting.

~~~
alexeisadeski3
Was under impression that strongest supporters of police state are 'suburban
soccer moms'.

~~~
pekk
Your analysis would be stronger if you differentiated between "police state"
and "police services"

~~~
rch
At a 'town hall' in Golden about 10 years ago, someone from Tom Tancredo's
office indicated that was willing to accept lethal collateral damage in the
regular course of law enforcement, including mistakes leading to application
of the death penalty.

His reasoning was that people who find themselves faced with no-knock
warrants, or falsely implicated in capital crimes, are probably guilty of
_something_ even if they are innocent of the matter of present concern.

I find that sentiment difficult to comprehend, but I imagine that citizens who
only experience the 'services' of police tend to forget that people living a
few blocks away may have a very different relationship with law enforcement.

------
glenra
Is there any reason the cops who pulled down or covered up cameras shouldn't
be immediately fired? Is there ANY rational excuse that could be given for
that sort of behavior? Pulling down an outside camera seems like vandalism,
pure and simple; covering an interior one suggests the desire to commit other
crimes unobserved.

~~~
Coincoin
Don't worry, he probably wrote in the report that it was for "security"
purposes.

~~~
jmadsen
This would be true.

They would have to work on the assumption that someone was inside, watching
them, so they could plan an attack.

I would think this would be standard operating procedure, regardless of the
reason they were there

~~~
glenra
Why wouldn't it work the other way? If the cops are present with overwhelming
force, somebody who can SEE them coming is much less likely to resist, more
likely to give up without a fight. Also less likely to think it's a bunch of
burglars breaking in. In just about every movie ever, cutting off the
surveillance video is something the BAD guys do - the GOOD guys know they're
in the right so they shouldn't mind being seen.

------
ryanmarsh
As one of hundreds of thousands of combat vets with PTSD...

Let's just say I would die in a raid like that and it scares the shit out of
me.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-
arizon...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-
_n_867020.html)

------
dba7dba
I think SOME of the cause of the militarization is due to the increased
availability of military grade PRODUCTS police has access to.

These products are often derivatives of military grade products. The makers of
the military grade products need to increase revenue and diversify, which
leads to the corporation intensely marketing to the police departments.

And once the police depts buy the new shiny toys, they need to have an excuse
for using them some how...

Just a personal observation.

~~~
couchand
The military also sells plenty of surplus equipment to police departments,
often at significant discounts (i.e. cost to the taxpayer).

~~~
dba7dba
I wonder what the ratio is. I doubt amt military sells is more than what the
corporations sell. It's simply because sales people in the corporations work
harder than a man in uniform...

~~~
judk
Military buys from vendors and donates to police, is what parent was saying.

------
danso
It's hard to imagine the situation getting much better without greater
political change. The Second Amendment has made it very difficult for police
to casually come in and slap you around, and that's _not a bad thing_.
However, when they feel that they need to arrest you, well, they're going to
bring a veritable army to avoid being causalities...and that's kind of
reasonable.

So what has to change? Hopefully, the non-important and trivial laws (i.e.
simple drug possession) are no longer enforced. But do concessions have to be
made in terms of citizen gun rights? The police would definitely think so.

Meanwhile, while this civic debate goes on, departments are funding these
militarized teams. Even if laws are changed so dramatically that these heavy
SWAT raids become practically unneeded...you think the middle-managers/deputy-
chiefs are going to give up the funds that enlarged their staffing and
armories? Or are they going to petition for more trivial laws to enforce?

~~~
parsnips
If the historical purpose of the second amendment is to have a citizenry
capable of defending itself from unjust government force, and the government
is increasingly using unjust force; How does it follow that the citizens need
to concede anything?

~~~
scott_karana
No kidding. There have been cases similar to this (but less dramatic) where
the homeowners fired on the un-marked, un-announced police squad, and were
(rightly!) vindicated under their states' respective castle or self-defense
laws.

What a pointless waste of life. Police need to go back to basics.

~~~
uxp
> There have been cases similar to this (but less dramatic) where the
> homeowners fired on the un-marked, un-announced police squad, and were
> (rightly!) vindicated under their states' respective castle or self-defense
> laws.

There have? Could you please cite them? In reading the Author's book,
mentioned at the end of the article, I was lead to believe that the castle
doctrine has pretty much eroded to the point that one has a reasonable sense
of privacy in one's own home, buy if you're suspected of illegal activity you
basically forfeit that right.

~~~
scott_karana
Sure, here:

[http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/article_549b0586-cefc-53a...](http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/article_549b0586-cefc-53a2-bd34-80a8f07816b4.html)

Can't see any others at the moment, sorry.

You might be right about forfeiting the right in illegal activities, I don't
know.

------
Cieplak
It seems like posing as the police would be an effective way to execute home
invasions, as people that might otherwise defend themselves would put down
their weapons.

~~~
zimbu668
Like this:
[http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/blog/2011/07/thir...](http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/blog/2011/07/third_home_invasion_by_fake_po.html)

------
kmfrk
As Bill de Blasio put it, "you can't break the law to enforce the law".

------
jmadsen
"this was over stolen property"

That (slightly misquoted) statement is the crux of the matter; the level of
response, from situations like this, to pepper-spraying college students
sitting on the ground, has spiraled out of control in recent years.

There needs to be a nation-wide effort to retrain police forces in "old
fashioned" methods of crisis management, instead of battle armor & bulldoze.

------
coherentpony
Anybody got a youtube link? My ad blockers are telling me this is not kosher.

~~~
dkuntz2
Disable it?

------
lilsunnybee
Breaking News: White person now 'totally terrified' of police

------
adamwong246
Notice the key word here: "Terrorized"

------
throwawayHN123
USA is worst than taliban....

------
hawkharris
The question is, how will you take immediate action to confront this injustice
when you wake up tomorrow morning?

I suggest, as a starting point, that we distribute the contact information for
the members of the Iowa police department in question (available online) to
start a targeted messaging campaign aimed at their households.

------
twoodfin
Aren't there dozens of more appropriate forums and audiences for this kind of
thing?

~~~
Goopplesoft
Upvotes decide content. If you don't it belongs here, don't upvote it.

------
hnriot
The story portray the poor family as the victims but it should be remembered
that this is a guy who takes a gun to the bathroom.

If you point a gun at a SWAT team they will likely shoot you, if you don't
have reflexes to drop the gun then that's Darwinian evolution in action. I
have little sympathy for someone that keeps a loaded gun with them in such a
paranoid fashion.

~~~
Jtsummers
He had it holstered. Likely was wearing it and happened to need to take a piss
or shit, why would he remove the holster and gun or unholster the gun for
what's likely a 30 second event in his day?

Not to mention, based on most Army and Marine vets I've met over the past few
years, I'd wager the majority carry a gun (barring state/local restrictions)
outside their home, and a significant number keep it holstered from about the
time they dress until they go to bed. SWAT teams should seriously reconsider
violating the law when conducting a raid if they want to avoid being target
practice for a trained soldier.

------
tinalumfoil
The fact that 2 people were arrested on charges makes me think these people
are playing dumb. Would they have been arrested if they knocked first. No
expectation was given to way she was housing 2 criminals. Also, the whole "if
they saw me with the gun they would of shot me" thing is bullshit. SWAT teams
deal with armed criminals all the time and never shoot first (especially since
it's a pistol and their wearing bulletproof everything).

I can't really comment on if the force they used was too great, as they didn't
say what they thought they were up against. Assuming they were justified in
their force and paid all damages, I do not see an issue with this.

~~~
aestra
Swat teams never shoot first? Wrong.

[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-
arizon...](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-
_n_867020.html)

[http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/%E2%80%9Cwhy_did_you_shoot_m...](http://www.salon.com/2013/07/07/%E2%80%9Cwhy_did_you_shoot_me_i_was_reading_a_book_the_new_warrior_cop_is_out_of_control/)

[http://jonathanturley.org/2013/02/21/connecticut-swat-
team-r...](http://jonathanturley.org/2013/02/21/connecticut-swat-team-raids-
home-with-armored-car-shoots-and-kills-unarmed-occupant-and-pay-millions-in-
damages-but-lead-officer-given-award-for-his-role-in-the-raid/)

[http://www.businessinsider.com/9-horrifying-botched-
police-r...](http://www.businessinsider.com/9-horrifying-botched-police-
raids-2012-2?op=1)

[http://rt.com/usa/swat-teenage-girl-hughley-906/](http://rt.com/usa/swat-
teenage-girl-hughley-906/)

