

Hacking Real World Systems - mqt
http://mattmaroon.com/?p=328

======
mattmaroon
I'm rather confused as to the code of ethics here. My hack was by no means
fraud, I simply took advantage of a stupid system. I didn't cheat or steal, or
even violate the site's Terms of Service (which said you couldn't use
automated scripts to manipulate their GUI but nothing about the website).

I did not break any law in any country, or even violate a site rule. It's
preposterous to call it unethical. I simply took advantage of a flawed system.

~~~
mattmaroon
As near as I can tell here, a hack is ethical unless it makes money. It's the
tortured artist ethic perhaps.

~~~
Tichy
I for one misread your story, should have read more carefully. I thought you
got points just for repressing the button after one deposit. The other way (as
you described it), yeah, I guess it was just stupidity on the part of the
poker firm. Morality would still be debatable - if it had not been a poker
firm, but a charity or whatever, people might feel different about it.

I also often have to sign contracts, and I am not sure if all of them are 100%
waterproof - probably they are not. But even though the opposing lawyers could
probably screw me over, doesn't mean it would be ethical for them to do so.

------
bayareaguy
There seems to be a good tradition of "gambler hackers", e.g.

\- Edward O. Thorp ("Beat the Dealer"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_O._Thorp> )

\- Keith Taft (<http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/taftint.html>)

\- the MIT Blackjack Team ( "Bringing down the house"
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bringing_Down_the_House_>(book) )

~~~
mattmaroon
Amarillo Slim was a great one too, before he got all child-molesty.

------
hacker64
This should disqualify him right away. Bragging about it tells me that he
can't tell the difference between right and wrong.

~~~
rms
What was wrong here? It's not like the gambling company needed the money.

~~~
rms
-2 and no one telling me what was wrong.

Was it the clicking of the button? Or was it the scripting? Perhaps it was the
not committing a crime part?

People, reread the story -- he deposited tens or hundreds of thousands of
dollars at once, only to withdraw it after a week.

------
Alex3917
"Wow, I could write a book on these, as that's pretty much my one true passion
in life..."

I was thinking the same thing as soon as I read the question.

------
sspencer
I'm not sure Paul Graham meant "publicly admitting to fraud" when he said
"best non-computer hack."

This would make me drop you like a sack of armpit hair if I were a VC...

------
ks
This was a crime. He stole money from the site.

~~~
toffer
There's no crime here. He followed the rules of the promotion.

Party Poker awarded points for making deposits. Matt deposited money. He would
deposit so much money at a time (up to $50K) that he got bored clicking
buttons, so he wrote a script to do it for him.

So, if depositing money wasn't against the rules and withdrawing the money
after he got the FPPs wasn't against the rules, how can you possible claim
that "this was a crime"?

~~~
yters
Making deposits with certain time restrictions...

~~~
Tichy
I could imagine there were others trying the same thing, but then gambling
away all their deposited money within a week. So maybe it was all good for the
poker firm after all.

------
Tichy
Interesting, but maybe better kept secret?

~~~
immad
why?

~~~
Tichy
Well, it's kind of like admitting fraud in public (for lack of a better word).
It reminds me of the recent incident were some gangsters were busted because
they posted revealing videos on YouTube. Moreover, I wonder if some crawler
could be devised looking for people admitting their scams on their blogs, and
solve a huge amounts of crimes that way...

~~~
Sujan
Fraud is the best word you could choose.

In several countries (e.g. Germany, France... don't know about US) this is
called computer fraud. And because he did it to sell the goods and make money,
some countries would add "professional" and double the punishment.

~~~
rms
But what was the fraudulent act? Clicking the deposit button?

~~~
Tichy
OK on second reading, I guess it really was just stupidity of the poker site,
for allowing withdrawal of the money after having received the bonus points.
Sorry I misread, I thought he just gained the points for clicking the button
repeatedly after a single deposit.

------
mroman
I represented myself in US Federal court on a civil rights action against a
county and Sheriff's department, and prevailed. Had never previously picked up
a law book. Gathered evidence myself, and circumvented the defendant's
attempts at destroying some of that evidence. All things considered, it was a
coup on my part.

