
Chevrolet to offer unlimited data plan with cars - devy
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39140540
======
jameskilton
I recently picked up a Volt which includes this OnStar 4G setup and have to
say I'm extremely concerned at how quickly this "my car is on the internet"
feature set is spreading.

Everything is managed by OnStar through their device that's factory installed
into every new Chevy vehicle. They have had security breaches and had to fix
white-hat reported vulnerabilities in the past[1]. This system isn't just "4G
wifi as a hotspot", it has almost full access to every system in the car.

Chevy offers this mobile app called MyLink which lets you remote-start, lock,
unlock your car using this same connection.

History shows that car manufacturers have not given _near_ enough thought to
the security of access to a vehicle. I'm afraid that it's only a matter of
time before we have a bot net either using cars, a bot-net that attacks and
takes over cars, or both, with the potential of lots of damage and loss of
life.

As such I immediately told OnStar to disable service to my car and will be
finding and disconnecting the OnStar box (as it still phones home
periodically) as I just have no reason to trust such a thing at this time.

[1] [https://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-
takeo...](https://www.wired.com/2015/09/gm-took-5-years-fix-full-takeover-
hack-millions-onstar-cars/)

~~~
tclancy
Obligatory story: I bought a Camaro when the new ones first came out (2009). I
ran into some issues with the radio, found out via forums I was 3 firmware
versions behind and then slowly found out car dealers were ill-prepared to be
software vendors. They had no idea about the radio updates and their system
showed nothing for me against my VIN. This was a common enough experience
across the country that one of the coders working on the radio started giving
the updates out via email. Which is how I wound up sitting in my car with two
USB sticks full of C#. Put the first one in, turn the key, updates. Then open
the driver's side door to reset the process (yes, seriously) and put the
second USB stick in.

Before that experience I used to laugh off the idea of a weaponized mp3 file
or people taking control of cars remotely. Now I think about that auto-boot
USB port and the fact my driver's side door is a toggle to God-knows-what.

~~~
briffle
My 2015 pickup has a stereo/setup that can get Satellite radio, GPS signals
for the mapping program (not activated on mine), regular radio, and a 4G LTE
hotspot.

But what really, really annoys me, is I have to push buttons on the screen to
update/fix the time.. How the hell does it not have NTP, or get a radio
signal, etc?

~~~
mapmeld
Especially since the GPS signal has the time in it... likely it is to avoid
issues with people claiming it is running fast/slow, or changing timezones.

~~~
chiph
Only the GPS time value has never had any leap seconds applied to it. So it's
almost 20 seconds ahead of UTC. Which is probably "good enough" for a clock in
a car.

~~~
gizmo686
GPS includes the offset between GPS time and UTC so that receivers can convert
to UTC if they want to.

This offset is limited to 255 seconds though.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Leap...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Leap_seconds)

~~~
ProblemFactory
> This offset is limited to 255 seconds though.

Given that leap seconds have been added at a rate of approximately 1 every 1.6
years, we are still good for another 376 years.

~~~
simcop2387
Don't forget that they can be negative leap seconds too! It hasn't happened
yet but it is expected.

------
massysett
Do their cars come with decent in-car entertainment that can actually use the
Internet?

When I got my new 2016 Honda Accord I was looking forward to some good
streaming music in the car. I read that the built-in stereo comes with
Pandora. I also knew that the built-in stereo can also access the Internet.
"Cool," I thought. "I can fire up the hotspot on my phone, connect the car to
the Internet, then the Pandora will connect and do its thing."

Nope. Turns out that the stereo can connect to the Internet. It's got Android.
But the most useful thing I can do is browse the Web on my car stereo screen.
Something I have never, ever wanted to do. Apparently it also connects to some
useless thing called Aha Radio, which hasn't been updated in years. The
Pandora can't even use the Internet connection! It only works through
Bluetooth or, apparently, though hooking up my phone via a cable.

So the stereo's Internet connection is practically useless, and my only
streaming options work through the phone, which is generally a glitchy
experience. Though I must say, the Pandora built in to the car is generally
better than Apple CarPlay, which has been a huge disappointment.

So hopefully Chevy has something decent in their car other than an Android web
browser on the car screen, and hopefully it's not just Apple CarPlay or
Android Auto or anything like them, because in my experience the phone makers
are all about stripping away hardware buttons. When I'm driving the hardware
buttons are far superior to finicky on-screen buttons.

~~~
ben1040
I have the same car, as well as a Pixel phone, and I'm really pleased with
streaming radio apps on Android Auto. The voice controls work for Spotify and
not just Google Music. To control music I'm generally using voice control or
the steering wheel stereo controls.

CarPlay really seems to suck for any audio app that isn't Apple Music. It does
seem to work _great_ for Apple Music, so if that's your preferred music app
then you'd be pretty happy.

~~~
massysett
Apple Music does work moderately well with CarPlay, but mostly with the voice
interface. The problem with the voice interface is that there is a huge lag,
and it is erratic. Sometimes I will say something like "play jazz radio" and
it responds there is no jazz station; later, it works. The strange thing is
that it seemed to recognize the command, as it repeats back "I can't find
station jazz."

The only hope for it is the voice interface. The touchscreen interface is
horrible, because there are no hardware buttons...which may be Honda's fault,
as they stripped off all buttons except those on the steering wheel.

I wouldn't be surprised if Android Auto works better, as Apple's voice control
has generally been bad. Also Google Maps still beats Apple, and I can't get
Google Maps on Carplay.

------
jandrese
I have to wonder how useful this unlimited data plan will be in 10-15 years
when you're still driving the vehicle. What are the chances Chevy is going to
even have an option to upgrade the radio when the one built into the car is
obsolete?

~~~
p49k
If they had offered it 10 years ago when 3G was available in most places, it
would still be pretty useful today. 3G is good enough for 95% of what I use
mobile data for.

~~~
wl
AT&T and Verizon are making noises about shutting down their 3G networks in
about 5 years. There may be some feet dragging from important customers, but
3G is not long for this world.

------
tyingq
I don't get it, though. The article makes it seem like the primary use case is
to connect your phones to the car via WiFi, so they can all use the car's 4g
connection.

But don't most people that can afford this already have unlimited (or close to
it) data direct from the phone?

Or is the data connection used by the car in some other way?

~~~
beamatronic
I think having an always-connected car would be really useful. On certain cell
phone networks, such as Verizon's in the US, you cannot make a phone call and
use data at the same time. I often take calls while in the car and find that I
need access to critical data at the same time. I've considered adding a hot
spot semi-permanently to the car just as a work around for this issue. Also
keep in mind there are passengers who do have tablets, but don't have cell
phones ( such as kids ). Finally, how cool would it be to put some always on
devices in your car such as a Nest Cam / Dropcam!

~~~
nradov
Hasn't that limitation been removed with LTE, or is Verizon still unable to do
simultaneous voice and data for some other reason? The Sprint 3G network had
the same problem, which is one of the reasons I dropped them.

~~~
sparky_
Yes Verizon supports simultaneous voice and data. In actuality, they route all
their audio connections as VOIP over the data connection (VoLTE). Which has
the same effect.

Sprint still drops data connections during voice calls.

------
nradov
So can you just leave your car's electrical system turned on in your garage
and use that to provide unlimited Internet service for the whole house when
you're not driving?

~~~
brandon272
Until your battery dies.

~~~
choward
Just sit in your car in the garage with door closed with your laptop plugged
into the charger and your car running. Disclaimer: Don't do this. You will
die.

~~~
userbinator
_Don 't do this. You will die._

...Unless it's an EV.

------
6stringmerc
Sounds like a total gift to folks like ADAC - the German group that publicized
their ability to use an available device to breach and make off with 24 cars
tested out of a field of <50\. Article: [https://www.wired.com/2016/03/study-
finds-24-car-models-open...](https://www.wired.com/2016/03/study-finds-24-car-
models-open-unlocking-ignition-hack/)

Another point of entry? Eeek. At least it keeps fiction writers like me busy,
because, let's face it, creativity is what theorizes holes in systems, then
followed by skill to test if they're really there.

------
phkahler
Obigatory:

[https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/01/15/polic...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2017/01/15/police-
spying-on-car-conversations-location-siriusxm-gm-chevrolet-toyota-
privacy/#622376182ef8)

The TLAs use things like OnStar to spy on people.

~~~
csours
The TLAs use things like cell phones to spy on people.

//disclaimer: I work for GM, but not in this area.

~~~
phkahler
With OnStar they contacted GM and got their cooperation. With your cell phone
it seems they bypass the carrier.

------
davis
They are putting a consumer spin on this but I am willing to bet that this is
more important for their future self-driving car and the accompanying
logistics. Smart.

------
Shivetya
Sorry but I don't need a $20 monthly bill on top of my cell bell and
everything else. I am curious if this is addition to Onstar costs beyond the
first three months? That can be 19.95 on its own (Safe and Sound).

Just make it simple to let my car use my phone's data connection. Volt support
Apple Carplay and Android Auto so that shouldn't be all that difficult.

------
MorePowerToYou
What's the best way to have the OnStar, Car-net, etc hardware removed from the
vehicle? I don't want my car connected to the fucking internet. I'm tempted to
just pry out the hardware myself, but am curious if the dealer or mechanics
will do it for you.

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matt_wulfeck
For times when I'm away from my car, a long-range, local 802.11ah network
(more than a mile range) would be great. That would allow it sync when parked
on the street and connect when you're in the parking lot looking for it.

