

What it's like having a kid - adam
http://amsiegel.com/post/41481048551/what-its-like-having-a-kid

======
pavel_lishin
> it’s not a “natural birth” if you get an epidural

I never really understood this. It wasn't natural for me to have surgery less
than a month after I was born, either, but without it I'd be dead now.

~~~
btilly
A number of things happen with an epidural that are kind of a big deal.

1\. The baby is affected by the epidural, which can result in several days of
grogginess, increased difficulty in establishing breast feeding, etc.

2\. There is a natural amnesia for the pain of childbirth. If you get an
epidural that effect gets dropped. So there may be less pain, but the woman
tends to remember it more clearly.

3\. An epidural greatly limits the mother's range of possible positions and
activities. For example squatting in a shower can be great for progress, but
you can't do it if your legs don't work properly.

4\. One intervention leads to another. An epidural slows the birthing process,
and massively increases your likelihood of further interventions. In the
linked article, the woman wound up with a C-section. The odds of that
happening would have been considerably less if there had not been an epidural.
(Even so, if there is no fetal distress, why the hurry to have a C-section if
that had not been discussed? Before the childbirth they should have had a
birthing plan, and the doula should have known the mother's wishes and
defended them. That's what she's there for...)

That said, natural childbirth is incredibly difficult and not always possible.
If a woman wants and is capable of having a natural childbirth, my hat is off
to her. But women shouldn't be pushed to do that if they don't want to.

~~~
tinok
Exactly. When people ask about the two home births we had, they often respond
with "oh no, but what would you have done if things went wrong? How could you
do that to your kid? What if there were complications??"

People just refuse to realize that so-called complications that were not pre-
screened by a midwife or doctor happen BECAUSE you have a hospital birth. We
then get told "my friend just gave birth and the baby was not breathing, thank
god they were at the hospital!". Of course these mothers usually get epidural,
which shut down their body, leading to prolonged births (doctors LOVE to wait
for you to push:), suctions, etc. Impatient doctors cause far more
complications and put more babies in danger than a midwife assisting a true
home birth.

~~~
btilly
I have no opinion (and have not done research on) whether low risk births are
safer in the over-medicalized environment of a hospital, or the less medically
prepared environment of a house.

I do have strong opinions on people who try to encourage others to have home
births without having those people screened for risk factors that indicate
that a hospital is needed. Because when things go wrong in childbirth, they
tend to go wrong _fast_. Historically a lot of women died that way. In today's
world where many women have children late, have complicating conditions like
diabetes, etc, there are a lot of potentially valid reasons to not give birth
at home.

(My wife had two natural births in a hospital setting. As an MD who had done
her research, she felt strongly about the advantages of natural childbirth.
Again as an MD, she was well aware that her risk factors meant that she needed
a hospital.)

------
tinok
So let me get this:

\- baby's heart rate was of concern to your doctor \- no progress for several
hours \- baby pooped \- your wife had fever during labor \- baby and mother
now have an infection \- c-section \- big commotion, no communication with the
wife

And people still think epidural is a normal part of child birthing?

On top of that - this couple will go on to tell other parents how lucky they
were that they gave birth at the hospital! Yet this whole thing happened
BECAUSE they thought child birth is a medical event. It's not.

They inject chemicals into a mother about to give birth and then say - well,
baby doesn't want to come out, must do c-section (read: doctor wants to go
home, doesn't want to rub olive oil around the vagina, let's cut her up).

I feel sorry for mothers who give birth at hospitals. Stories such as these
make me so mad. People have no clue.

~~~
yarou
Yes, laypeople have no clue...except those who have been trained for years,
both theoretically and practically, in medicine. Child birthing is a natural
event, but so is dying from cancer. Does that mean one should eschew
chemotherapy and radiation treatment?

~~~
tinok
Hospitals are not where mothers are supposed to give birth. They are
constantly rushed to get the baby out, doctors are terrible at patient
management and very quick to suggest chemical interventions, are very happy to
use suctions to get the baby out and go home early, etc. 100,000 people die
every year in the US from infections contracted during hospital visits,
completely unrelated to the original reason for the visit. Why would you want
your infant child in that sick environment?

As for cancer, ignoring the fact that you compare it to child birth, it's
completely natural. We all have cancer cells in our bodies at various times.
Weak, unhealthy bodies do not know how to fight it, hence the so-called cancer
breaks out so to speak. And you're correct that there are many other
treatments to consider before traditional methods, but I'll get downvoted for
speaking, so why bother.

~~~
btilly
Steve Jobs at one point would have agreed with you.

That's a large part of why he's now dead.

------
orangethirty
Congratulations. Nothing you have ever done will prepare you for what follows.
Protip: Babies that have issues with sleeping sometimes benefit from loud
background noises being played. This due to them being used to all of the
noises being produced by their mother's internal organs. You can try putting a
radio off a station (for the whitenoise) and raising it to _11_. Or maybe a
vacuum cleaner. With my child, the radio worked like a charm.

Good luck. Being a father changes you.

~~~
scoot
Why is it that nearly everyone who has children feels the need to impart
birthing advice on expectant parents, and child-rearing advice to new parents?

The only advice I give now is to ignore all the advice everyone else gives.

~~~
biesnecker
Because being a father is the only thing I've ever done that is pretty close
to being mystical, and I'm proud of it?

~~~
btilly
You may think you're a great father, but I don't know you. You're a stranger
to me. I don't have any reason to believe you're any better than the last 20
people who tried to offer me contradictory unsolicited advice on how I should
raise my children.

There is at this point no faster way to get in my bad books than to put your
nose in my affairs and tell me how to raise my children when I didn't ask you
to.

~~~
biesnecker
Maybe I misinterpreted your question. My answer was to a question more along
the lines of "why do parents talk about parenting all the time?" If the person
offering advice is being a dick about it (be it about parenting or anything
else), then sure, it's inappropriate. But at the same time I remember when my
first was born, I was pretty darn receptive to advice because _I had no idea
what I was doing_. I'm less receptive now because half a decade in I think I
have a decent handle on things, but I'm still not hostile about it -- I
generally smile and nod and ignore (which, come to think of it, is what I do
whenever anyone offers me advice I don't need).

------
andymoe
Just experienced this a month ago as the man as well. "Intense" is the only
reasonable word I could possibly use to describe the experience. I can't even
imagine going through it from the other side as a woman and, oh man, the
things we leave out when educating people about giving birth. Fatherhood is
pretty cool so far though!

~~~
spydum
congrats, I can only get say it gets better for the next few years!

~~~
andymoe
Thank you!

------
seriocomic
Wow, so much to resonate with. I'm reading this to pass the time while my
fiance is measuring her contractions. We're due today. We were lucky to have
four 2-hour educational sessions that went through all the various scenarios
and what the options (and consequences were) - hopefully everything goes
smoothly.

It's probably not the actual birth experience that resonated so much - it was
the way the disconnected expectation and sense of intangibility about the
lead-up to the birth that was well written. It is/was hard for me to explain
to others why I wasn't overtly excited (I am, but in an internal way). Good to
hear that others feel this way too.

------
diego
As someone who spent six years trying to conceive and failed, reading this
post makes me feel really bad.

I'd point out that it's not Hacker News, but I'd have to do that for 50% of
the posts on the front page at any given time.

~~~
yarou
Have you thought about fertility and genetic counseling? (apologies if you
already have, I realize this is a very personal and sensitive subject). For
what it's worth, my parents conceived twice before I was born, both
miscarriages, yet I turned out alright.

~~~
diego
I've done everything you can think of and more. We actually conceived once, it
was a miscarriage.

Edit: if you really want to know, we fertilized a total of 19 embryos in 4
attempts over the years. Only two of those were deemed implantable by the PGD
(preimplantation genetic diagnosis) and both failed to implant. Each time it
was a two-week wait between implantation and learning about the failure,
knowing that there was a 50/50 chance.

Imagine flipping a coin that will be up in the air for two weeks. It cost you
$20k, dozens of injections, tests, trips to the clinic, and general anguish to
earn that coin toss.

~~~
johnnyn
Sorry to hear about all of your troubles Diego. Wishing you the best and hope
it works out at some point. I've had quite a few friends go through the very
same thing (fertility treatments, miscarriages) -- such difficult experiences.

------
johnnyn
Awesome account of the birth and experience. Thanks for sharing and going into
detail about such intimate moments. We had both of our kids at home via
midwife, but the experience obviously has similarities to the hospital. Our
second was breech and also did not make a sound at first. They warned us about
that with breech babies but it was still very unsettling until she started
crying -- as it was for you.

The last paragraph is perfect, couldn't have said it better myself.

------
dariusmonsef
I'm very happy you and your wife have a healthy baby addition to your family.
Not to spark a home/hospital birth debate, but to simply provide a different
experience... Mine: [http://hellobubs.com/post/23494489962/homebirth-midwives-
bec...](http://hellobubs.com/post/23494489962/homebirth-midwives-becoming-the-
ultimate-dudela)

------
GilbertErik
The title of the post should be, "My experiences with the delivery of my
baby." The whole 'having a kid' part is the next, oh... 10 to 15 years.

------
brudgers
What it's like to have a child is indescribably wonderful and it gets better
from there.

Congratulations.

------
codex
The birth is the easy part.

------
benth
Congratulations, and thank you for sharing your experience.

------
kunai
Well, that was graphic.

Anyway. Good job on the kid. I'm 14, so I don't think I'm fit to give any sort
of parenting advice or the like of it. Just enjoy the beauty of youth (and
also try to endure much of the ugliness that tends to come with it).

------
krie
Don't have kids. They will have far shittier lives, not to mention shorter,
than yours, thanks to the end of cheap fossil fuels. They're also a hundred
thousand dollar expense. Do not want!

I suppose most of you are so prone to optimist thinking and nurturing your
biological urges you won't heed my call. Ah well.

Oh, and by the way, the current worldwide depression will never end.

[http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/wp-
content/uploads/2011/...](http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/wp-
content/uploads/2011/10/peak-ff-oil.png)

~~~
gnosis
Having children is usually a selfish and/or conformist choice.

Many people have kids because that's what's expected of them, and because
that's what all their friends and family are doing. They also usually hope to
be less lonely with kids, have their kids support or take care of them when
they're older, be able to mold their kids to be like them or further their
goals, and have a sort of existence after their deaths through their kids, or
even fix up their marriage by having kids -- all selfish reasons to have kids.

But the kids never asked to be born. As parents, you are essentially forcing
life upon another being.

According to Silenus, _"the best thing for a man is not to be born, and if
already born, to die as soon as possible."_ [1]

This is not to mention the plague of overpopulation and all the resulting
problems that unrestrained breeding has led to.

[1] - <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silenus>

~~~
quasque
"But the kids never asked to be born. As parents, you are essentially forcing
life upon another being."

This is illogical. They can't ask to be born because they are not born yet. In
your argument, the arrow of time is pointing in the wrong direction.

And the parents are not forcing life upon a being like some sort of genitals-
based Dr Frankenstein rigmarole - they are creating the being.

~~~
gnosis
_"They can't ask to be born because they are not born yet."_

That's the point. They don't have a choice in the matter. The choice is
entirely the parents' (assuming it's not an accident or rape).

~~~
quasque
You are trying to support your point by arguing against a tautology. This
doesn't make any sense.

