
Ask HN: Interviewing, what did I do wrong? - film42
I submitted an application to a company for a software engineering internship, and was contacted by one of their recruiters.<p>I was interviewed by him on the phone, then scheduled for a technical phone interview, which I passed.<p>I was then invited on site for 3 1-hour technical interviews, which I passed.<p>Then I was invited back for a 30-min interview with the head of engineering. He asked me a few questions about scalability of platforms, my favorite platforms, my preference for front-end vs backend, and then asked how much I make per hour at my current job (which is $2&#x2F;hr more than glass door says their interns make). We finished the meeting, he shook my hand, and 3 days later, I got a no-reply@company.com email stating I had been denied.<p>What did I do wrong? I&#x27;m honestly baffled.
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lawl
I can't tell you what/if you did anything wrong. There's just too many
factors, some of which a highly subjective ("cultural fit"). I did interviews
for my company too and usually we would optimize our process highly to get no
false positives, even if that meant we had a few false negatives. So again
it's hard to say.

But what _really_ bothers me is that you got a reply from a no-reply address.
What the actual fuck. You were there for an on-site interview, this is not the
situation where you send people automated no-reply-click-this-link mails.

If their HR doesn't have the time to send a short personal mail (or an
automated one from a HR address that doesn't look like it's automated) that
might be a red flag on how they treat their employees anyways.

You can try asking them, we at my company were usually happy to tell
candidates that didn't pass, why they didn't pass. But we also didn't blow off
people with a no-reply mail that were far enough into the process to have been
onsite.

The only advice I can give you is to move on and do the next interview. Don't
let this get to you.

~~~
film42
I agree the no-reply@company.com was weird. Btw, I'm not sure if it was a
cultural fit, because I interviewed with 8 people up until the meeting with
the head of engineering, and all gave me the thumbs up.

Maybe I was just not prepared enough for my conversation with the head of
engineering. Still though, I would love to know why.

Thank you for your advice, I feel that's really all I can do. Still, it's hard
to not let this get to me.

~~~
protomyth
> it's hard to not let this get to me.

Don't let it bother you and just think of it as another story to tell[1]. If
the no-reply bothers you, then they probably have a lot of other habits in how
they treat people that would really bother you if you had got the job. Its the
canary in the mine. Don't think of it as getting rejected, think of it as
dodging a bullet.

1) my most wtf? story is getting rejected for an internship because the area
code of the high school and college I went to was the same. Told me that over
the phone. I did at least point out the whole state is one area code.

------
theboss
You're actually lucky that you even got a rejection. I have a friend who has
interviewed at quite a few companies that are talked about in high regard by
people in the tech industry and after his interview, he hasn't heard back at
all.

I know him he is skilled and certainly worthy of serious consideration....so
it has been surprising seeing how many have rejected him after an interview
without a courtesy email.

You either weren't good enough or weren't a good fit. I've had situations
where I interviewed at jobs where I'm asked "What type of work will make you
love coming to work and also what is your ultimate career goal". If your
answer isn't exactly what they are looking for, you might not be "as good of a
fit as they want".

This is actually a good thing because they are saving you a lot of time by
getting you to work on something you like, rather than something might not
know you don't like.

With that said, I expect that the tech hiring process will be unrecognizable a
few years from now.

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tptacek
A _no-reply@_ email address? This seriously happened? You dodged a bullet.

If you reject candidates from a no-reply@ email address, there is nothing I or
anybody else can ever do to help you in any way ever again. You are beyond
help. You've found perhaps the one thing you could do worse than simply going
dark on candidates you reject.

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sarahj
From my years behind the hiring line...this is what probably happened:

While you did OK, you did not ace the 3-1 hour technical interviews, or they
thought that you didn't make a strong enough impression in <insert important
area for the job/company> \- the follow up interview was probably intended to
gauge those areas, and you failed to meet their standard.

Don't feel too bad about it, people flunk out of interviews all the time -
even if they would be perfect for the job - most places now adopt quite a
strict hiring policy because a bad hire is worse for the business than a no
hire.

You could try and get feedback form the company but I wouldn't hold your
breath. Simply try again with another.

~~~
Kroem3r
Hard to say. Some places need 3 x 1 hr to figure out if a person has the
chops. Other places can just figure it out. IMHO, it does seem unnecessary and
could point to the area of difficulty, but some places are just goofy that
way. For sure the bottom line is: Use the experience to improve yourself,
shake off the negativity and move on.

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codeonfire
It's a numbers game. You need to be pursuing 5-10 job leads at any one time.
You can be the perfect fit for the job, but it doesn't matter. Companies will
turn you down for reasons which they will never be able to admit to and you
will have to learn to turn companies down for certain reasons (which also you
probably shouldn't say publicly). Remember, offices range from laid back, low
pay, and easy to work with to psychopathic coked up management trying to
ethnically cleanse all the people not of their country of origin (and brag
about it later). Also, the hardest thing to do, and the most mature, is to
always consider it was your fault whether not the right skills or not enough
practice. It may turn out not to be, but you have to consider it.

~~~
namenotrequired
> It's a numbers game. You need to be pursuing 5-10 job leads at any one time

It's funny, I don't mean to suggest this is totally untrue, but opposite to
the advice I give (albeit based on a sample size of five). The two best jobs
by far were those I got (1) by volunteering for a while until they
(unexpectedly) offered me a job or (2) by picking one company I'd love to work
for, and persistently trying until they made an offer. Admittedly, those were
both with small companies (under 100 employees).

I think going for quality or quantity can both work.

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bobosha
You said you "passed" the previous interviews before the last meeting. It is
unlikely the interviewers share the "passed " assessment. We interview a lot
and often run the candidates through multiple interviews and tests, before
making a go no-go decision. Your decision is likely the cumulative of the
multiple interviews. Don't feel bad about it, life's short, move on, There are
plenty of companies hiring for software engineers.

~~~
ryen
He said he was "invited back" for the last interview. Its highly unlikely (and
downright stupid) of them to invite someone back without first making a
preliminary decision whether its worth their time (and his) to do so.

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greenyoda
You may not have done anything wrong. It's possible that you made a great
impression and were a good fit for the job, but they had another candidate who
had just a slight edge over you in some particular area. Don't let this
discourage you.

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codezero
Not unlike the VCs who reject applicants, you may have been great, but others
may have been more great.

Further, there might have been non-technical issues at play which are harder
to understand/reason about, such as communication issues, confidence issues
(both over and under confident), or issues with a perception about how much
you cared about their particular product.

All of the latter elements are fuzzy and not worth thinking too deeply about,
if you get rejected for those, then you are lucky you didn't end up working
there, as it would not have been a good fit for either of you.

I have heard people come out of interviews with negatives as fickle as "they
didn't make eye contact."

This doesn't mean that the person was rejected for that reason, but if you are
adding up all the reasons not to hire someone, and the sentiment was decidedly
negative, then it's going to mean the company will not make the investment in
hiring that person.

~~~
valleyer
> I have heard people come out of interviews with negatives as fickle as "they
> didn't make eye contact."

Lack of eye contact is often considered to be a trait of poor communication.
Do you mean to suggest that poor communication is not a valid reason for
choosing not to hire someone?

~~~
codezero
I have ADD, I am conscious of my lack of eye contact, but I am actually a
great communicator.

All of human behavior occupies a wide spectrum. It's probably OK to say that
on average, people who avoid eye contact may be bad communicators, but it's
not universally true and to use that signal as an indication of a person's
quality is cheating. If you need someone to make eye contact for you to feel
like communication is good, the problem is with how you feel, not with the
actual communication.

~~~
valleyer
There are a wide variety of engineering jobs and some of them require regular
communication with people who might not know you and who are therefore are
more likely to misinterpet things like lack of eye contact. Tech leads,
developer relations, etc.

People who are not good communicators _and_ people who don't seem like good
communicators, to the people being communicated to, are at a disadvantage for
these jobs, at least until we eliminate miscommunication from human
interaction (which I most sincerely hope someone, somewhere, is working on...)

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babs474
I wouldn't frame the question as "what did you do wrong". As other people in
this thread have pointed out you may have dodged a bullet. It could very well
be that this company is in the "wrong".

A better question to ask is what can you do to make yourself more attractive
and increase the probability of closing the deal with the next company. Think
like a salesman.

The fact that you told him you currently make close to what their interns make
jumps out at me. Perhaps you think that would make you more attractive, but it
may have had the opposite effect.

The head of engineering may have been told by his team that you have a lot of
expertise, skill and potential and then all of a sudden he finds out you get
paid at an intern level. He is going to ask himself what am I missing? If you
are so good why doesn't anybody else value you at that level. People want to
have a good feeling in their gut when they make a big purchase and a large
previous salary gap may have unsettled that.

A better head of engineering wouldn't we swayed by previous salary, but the
truth of the matter is a lot of decision makers are not perfectly rational.

My advice to you is to google strategies for dealing with the "what is your
current salary" question and be better prepared for that situation.

------
fsk
Interviewing is completely different than in school.

When doing Math or Computer homework, you usually are given a clear reason why
your grade was marked down.

When interviewing for a job, they will never tell you why they rejected you.
For legal reasons, it is risky to tell you. They will always give something
vague like "not qualified" or "bad cultural fit" or "other applicants were
better", even if that isn't the real reason.

Also, it's normal to apply to a lot of jobs with a low acceptance rate. If
employers interview 20 people for each position, (and they don't select better
than random) then you'll get an offer for 5% of your interviews.

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fredophile
Here's my best guess given what you wrote. The company felt that you were good
enough to be an intern there. They also had other candidates that they thought
would be better. They only take n interns a year. That started from the best
candidates and worked there way down until they got n yeses.

Once you graduate this will be less of a problem. Most big companies are
always hiring. If they like you they'll make an offer. This can still be a
problem at smaller companies though. If they only have one or two positions to
fill they'll usually tend to be pickier.

------
dccoolgai
5 months ago, I did - no b.s. - 15 hours of interview process with a big tech
company. I was so good in the interviews that I (very, very politely) was
putting on a clinic for their devs. No word for a week, then I get an email
from HR saying they are passing on me with no reason given...after 15 hours of
process. A couple weeks later I did an interview with a company I wouldn't
have considered because I was so discouraged...ending up liking the team a
lot, got hired and 3 months in, it's the best job I've ever had so far.

------
SoftwarePatent
Do _not_ take this personally. Companies make mistakes in the interviewing
process and reject great people all the time. I have seen some absolutely
amazing programmers with the chops to work anywhere look for jobs. There is
always at least one company that rejects them. It's their loss.

Do _not_ assume that you did something wrong. The mistake could be on their
part. You made it through all of those technical interviews, so you will be
able to find work somewhere!

------
softatlas
Companies should give feedback to candidates whom they deny positions.

1\. What questions were answered incorrectly/mistakenly/insufficiently? 2\.
Code review on code quizzes, if they're expected.

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ClayFerguson
Unfortunately humanity (including hiring managers) is extremely fickle so the
reason could have been as simple as "You reminded one of them of someone who
bullied them in high-school, so they lied and said you weren't qualified."
IMO, about a good 30% of the time when something goes wrong it's literally as
stupid as this. Don't blame yourself if you were nice, not arrogant, and
qualified. Just blame random chance, because that's the truest reason that
exists.

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morituri
It could be nothing to do with you. They are not looking at just you as a
candidate, but several others at the same time. When interviewing, hiring
managers look at a few factors including technical knowledge/competence,
cultural fit and budget. You may fit all the requirements, but another
candidate could have made a better overall impression.

It doesn't hurt to call the recruiter to get some feedback.

------
ajinkyakale
you mentioned questions on scalability et al, answers to those questions are
very subjective. I went through a similar experience at one of the biggest
tech giants out there ... went something like this - i was in the final face
to face interviews and did well in all of those IMHO. It was a big interview
day at the company and lot of candidates flew in all over the globe. So all
interviews done, we went for lunch in the cafeteria, and before I started I
was called for another round of interviews (and couple of other guys were
called too). To be honest I hate lunch interviews, I think its cruel! But
anyways, I was asked about design and scalability etc. and that was the last
interview that day. After a few days I get a rejection email from the HR
folks. I was in the same boat as you are today ...

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DanBC
Just checking but are you non-white or non-male or some other protected class?

~~~
film42
Nope. I'm about as un-ethnic as it gets.

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alien3d
It might be the human resource people if big company. Human resource people
wanted people with high achievement + specialty and cheap cost. My Advise,just
find other company.. don't blame yourself for it.

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tomasien
This is an important question. You did nothing wrong, they'd like to hire you,
but there was just something about you that made them hesitate. And because
they have a ton of candidates for very few jobs, that hesitation means moving
on. But it's NO knock on you - it's just some tiny thing that they probably
should have ignored, but because they're focused on making a decision, they'll
use any excuse to eliminate you. Don't think another second about it.

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geekam
No matter how long it's been, interviewing is still a very subjective field.
It is frustrating, no doubt, to not know what you did wrong but that's what
subjectivity brings.

~~~
todoso
geekam - (this question is in the wrong thread, but I can't seem to comment in
the older threads, sorry) - can you tell me anything (via email) about the
dentist who threatened you and the fellow yelper with a lawsuit - even just
the name of the state or the size of chain of practices? I'm using gmail with
address todoso253. I believe there are some dentists who do this serially.

~~~
geekam
I responded to you. Please check your email.

