
Nvidia  – significant increases in parental benefits for employees - bing_dai
https://virtuallyvisual.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/nvidia-significant-increases-in-parental-benefits-for-employees/
======
martin_bech
"they’ve left their teeny 6 week old baby in nursery to pay the mortgage etc…"
As someone living in Denmark, this really blows my mind. In no way should a 6
week old baby be in a nursery. Here the norm would be 6 months to a year
before they see any kind of nursery/daycare.

~~~
eob
When my wife and I took a birth class in Boston, the ice breaker was to go
around and say who you were and how much time you had off once the baby came
(ostensibly so the instructor could tailor her advice).

After a long string of answers like "two weeks.. three weeks.. six weeks..
four weeks", the international parents in the group felt compelled to begin
their introductions with an apology for numbers like six months, one year, two
years...

I've never been able to understand how a parent could advocate against
European-style healthcare goals (implementation details left as an exercise
for technocrats).

~~~
munificent
> I've never been able to understand how a parent could advocate against
> European-style healthcare goals

I'm pretty sure parental leave is not mentioned in the US Constitution nor in
the founding documents of most countries.

If we don't have it today, it's not because people advocated against it and
removed it, it's because we simply haven't had enough push to advocate _for_
it and _add_ it.

Large countries have a _ton_ of inertia. Diverse, thinly populated countries
even more so. When people are far apart, they care much more about local
politics and their neighbors than they do centralized government. Making
change happen at that scale is _very very hard_.

People living in European countries enjoy criticizing the US on stuff like
this, but they fail to realize how much bigger and more spread out we are than
they are. The US is more than twice as large as the entire EU. Our density is
less than a _third_ of the EU's.

Another comment here mentions Denmark. If Denmark was a US state, it would be
36th in size, smaller than more than half of all US states. In population, it
has fewer than 20 other states. The metropolitan area of the city I live in
(Seattle) alone has almost half the population of the entire country of
Denmark. LA and surrounding environments contain more than two Denmarks worth
of people.

Consider if every US state were to independently enter the EU. In that case,
of the top 40 largest members by area, _only 9 would still be in Europe._

The US is behind in many ways, but this is not because we are backwater full
of regressive idiots. We are a very large country without the density and
homogeneity to benefit from good economies of scale. It's a lot easier to
reach consensus and move a government forward when you have fewer people and
they can more easily relate to each other.

If you are unable to understand why we might not have attained the same
healthcare goals as your country, consider that your inability to understand
people whose situation is different from yours is the exact psychological
problem that slows us down.

~~~
TheCapn
I'm not sure I gather the defense you're making for the US's position. You're
arguing that since the US populous is so spread out they have a hard time
getting on the same page to advocate for positive change in health policies?

What part of population density or land mass size makes for this excuse where
there's examples worldwide of both ends of either measure who've implemented
paid leave by law:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Variation_in_in...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Variation_in_international_law)

Countries larger and smaller than the USA have better policy. Countries with
greater and lesser population densities. Diversity of people _might_ matter
but I fail to see a demographic within the US that is outright against
increased parental benefits of new parents that doesn't exist within every
country that _has_ overcome the problem.

~~~
avar
The parent comment by munificent is just making the lazy go-to excuse for US
policies that it's so big / special / whatever that everything has to be
different there.

Notice how these lazy comparisons never make any specific comparisons to other
countries that would trivially refute their claims, such as Russia having 4x
less population density than the US, but still somehow managing to have a
federally mandated parental leave.

If it were true that it's just so hard for people far removed from one another
geographically to relate to each other wouldn't it follow that the situation
in Russia would be 4x worse than the US?

~~~
Amezarak
Well, I would suspect that the US is much more culturally diverse than Russia.
Something like a quarter of all US residents are foreign born or have a
foreign born parent; that's reflected in cities like NYC. I am doubtful the
numbers are similar for Russia, which is very large and does have some ethnic
and cultural diversity, but has been dealing with the same groups for much
longer and probably in more of an authoritarian way.

Not a defense of America; I do think the difference is more complicated than
just the size.

~~~
m_mueller
[Insert default arguments of why America is special]

1.) big and sparse. oh wait..

2.) culturally diverse. oh wait.. [1][2][3][4]

I only have one explanation for social service scarcity in the US: It seems to
be dominated by a culture where you'd rather have large parts of the
population suffer rather than having anyone chip in for the bill of groups of
people (s)he doesn't identify with. It's the idea of self responsibility
pushed to an unhealthy extreme. At the same time when talking to people in the
US personally (almost) everyone seems to be helpful and nice, much more so
than in most European countries actually. That dichotomy is something I'm
really struggling with, i.e. I fail to find a good explanation.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Ethnic_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Ethnic_groups)

[2] [http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2014/11/11/maternity-
leav...](http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2014/11/11/maternity-leave-
allowance-china.html)

[3] [https://www.angloinfo.com/brazil/how-to/page/brazil-
healthca...](https://www.angloinfo.com/brazil/how-to/page/brazil-healthcare-
pregnancy-birth-maternity-leave)

[4]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil#E...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil#Ethnicities_by_region)

~~~
Amezarak
Keeping to the comparison with Russia, I think the data bears out my point.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity)

That's a very different story than the Russia link you provided, which, as I
suspected, says that the country is mostly a) ethnically Russian and b) the
rest are minorities the Russians have been dealing with for most of their
history. I've even seen suggestions that the "White" category is perhaps too
coarse, with observable cultural and political differences between whites of
English descent and whites of German descent.

There's another pertinent datapoint, which is that Russia has a very low TFR
and is experiencing a population _decline_ and is pursuing policies to reverse
that, as it is seen as a major problem. The US, on the other hand, continues
to grow, largely because of immigration; policies to increase the number of
children are superfluous.

That said, as I mentioned earlier, I think that's just a _factor_. Every
country _is_ special and has to be considered on its own terms. Is geographic
size a factor? Probably. Is population size a factor? Probably. Is population
diversity a factor? Probably. Is some remnant of the mythological self-
reliance of American frontierism a factor? Probably. Is the rivalry with the
USSR a factor? Probably.

Moreover, while I personally would like at a minimum a year of paid parental
leave, the idea that parental leave represents Forward Progress and any
country that doesn't have it is _backward_ and deserves to be shamed is rather
disturbing. Instead of trying to shame America to conform to somebody elses'
norms, we should probably work instead on convincing them that it's a
worthwhile and workable idea, and that the potential tradeoffs are worth
making.

------
chollida1
I'm lucky enough to be Canadian and we've had universal parental leave for
some time now, though not at full pay. Of my group of 5 close families, all of
them ended up taking some form of parental leave. One parent was initially
told no by her company before she pointed out that the government enforced
this and the company couldn't say no.

Most did things like rent a house somewhere else and stay for 2-3 weeks. All
of them still rave bout this as being some of the best times of lives. If you
do ever get the chance to do this, I recommend doing it with another couple in
the same situation so you have a built in baby sitter so you can go out to
diner without having to worry about who is watching your new born.

Just to show the other side, one of my friends sent out this article below to
highlight the downside of parental leave. As this becomes more common, I think
companies will learn but it can still be a sticky topic.

[http://www.canadianbusiness.com/business-strategy/the-
dark-s...](http://www.canadianbusiness.com/business-strategy/the-dark-side-of-
maternity-leave/)

~~~
anamoulous
I hope to one day have children and experience these things, but this runs
counter to the narrative that parents put forward rationalizing why these
kinds of benefits should not be afforded to people who choose not to have
children. Often I've seen the argument that having and raising children is,
itself, a form of work not a vacation or that having children is a form of
public good and that's the reason why we can't all just have a standard paid
"leave of absence".

~~~
gaius
_raising children is, itself, a form of work_

This would be true if the child were the property of the company paying for
its raising ;-)

~~~
anamoulous
There's a problem in language here too. Obviously a child isn't a form of paid
work in service of a company, but if not work and if not vacation what is
this? If this is a medical leave, then how do we extend this opportunity for
medical leave to those who choose to not or cannot have children?

Or do we just say that having children is just that, having children, and that
parenting is a privileged class?

~~~
gaius
On a planet of 7Bn with dwindling resources the case that making more people
should be rewarded or subsidized isn't very convincing.

~~~
cgio
If you don't subsidize another country will. Where will that get you in a
couple generations.

~~~
gaius
What are you saying, that only children of your own race matter?

~~~
anamoulous
No they are saying that the societies best investment in the future is
ensuring that the children of that society are nurtured and provided for. I
agree with this and I think it's on us all to pitch in.

I also think that those who don't have children should have the opportunity to
have the same time away from work that parents who get time to "have the best
times of their lives" are allowed.

------
option_greek
Am I reading this correct ? 12 weeks of paid paternity leave. My jaw is still
hanging :) (Maternity leave is awesome too but its already more than 22 weeks
in the country I live).

~~~
endtime
Google has had 12 weeks for a while. I think Facebook is even more (3 or 4
months).

~~~
vgt
12 weeks is 3 months :)

I believe FB is 16 weeks?

~~~
endtime
3 months is actually 13 weeks, which is why I referred to it as more.

------
pns
While some gap in paid maternity vs paternity leave is permissible as women
uniquely have to recover from a childbirth (considered short-term disability),
courts have found 6-weeks as the typical recovery time and thus the typical
allowed difference in maternity/paternity leave duration [1]. Nvidia's clearly
understands this issue - adoptive and foster parents parents receive the same
leave as paternity (no disability for these groups of course).

How are they've overcoming the legal issues around offering a 10-week
difference in maternity/paternity leave?

[1] [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/16/business/attitudes-
shift-o...](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/16/business/attitudes-shift-on-
paid-leave-dads-sue-too.html)

~~~
serge2k
Why would there be legal issues? Don't they have no obligation to do anything
beyond the FMLA?

~~~
pns
It's a legal issue because courts have previously interpreted large
differences (i.e. beyond recovery time) in _paid_ maternity vs paternity leave
as a gender discrimination issue. See linked NYT article above

One example from the article: "Just last week, CNN and Turner Broadcasting
quietly settled an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission charge with a
former CNN correspondent, Josh Levs, who claimed that the company’s paid
parental leave policy discriminated against biological fathers.

At the time Mr. Levs’s daughter was born, in October 2013, CNN offered 10
weeks of paid leave to biological mothers and the same amount to parents of
either gender who adopted children or relied on surrogates. By contrast, the
company offered two weeks of paid leave to biological fathers."

------
BinaryIdiot
This is really awesome! Good for you nvidia! As a dad it sucks typically
getting such low amounts of time off simply because I wasn't the one who gave
birth when I want to bond with the baby as well as help my wife with anything
I can. The last two times we had a baby they were at companies where I had to
take vacation time to cover my time off (I was only able to take a little over
a week off the last time).

------
gaius
And if you don't want kids the consolation prize is lots of unpaid overtime
covering for your fellow employees...

------
Viper007Bond
The American company I work for gives 24 weeks (6 months) of both maternity
and paternity paid leave, more if you need it. As a single guy I'm a bit
envious, but at least I get a 3 month paid sabbatical every 5 years plus
unlimited time off.

I'm surprised more companies don't do this.

~~~
atonse
What exactly are you envious of? That those 6 months off are akin to a 6 month
vacation? It's a full-time job.

The smart business move would be to let people just take the time "off" and
come back healthy and rested after a few months. Not sure why businesses don't
see this obvious fact.

~~~
serge2k
> That those 6 months off are akin to a 6 month vacation? It's a full-time
> job.

Except I'm sitting in a little room all day staring at a computer, you're
spending all day with your family and seeing your new child walk and talk for
the first time.

Gee, I wonder who has a more rewarding time.

~~~
atonse
You think new parents sitting around laughing and taking pictures all day?
hahahaha sorry, no.

New parenting (infants) is about 5% photo-filled rewarding, 95% just
repetitive work, cleaning up shit (literally), waking up every couple of
hours, trying to keep it together with your spouse in stressful situations
with very little sleep, and feeding this organism that will eventually have a
personality and start interacting back. And that ratio gradually changes as
they grow older.

I remember after the first month, I used to consider going to the office my
"break from parenting" because of its consistency and ability for my mind to
just rest for a bit.

Just remember when you're asking a parent of an infant to have a full-time job
on top of parenting, you've essentially now got an employee that is splitting
their time/attention/energy between two jobs. If you're ok with the altered
productivity, then that's fine.

But let's not fool ourselves.

~~~
serge2k
I refuse to accept this ridiculous idea that you are making some great
sacrifice by taking time off after your kid is born. If it's so horrible then
don't take the time off.

------
farorm
Well if you like vacation or planning to have a child, you should get a job in
Sweden.

[https://sweden.se/quickfact/parental-
leave/](https://sweden.se/quickfact/parental-leave/)

------
achalkley
I just wanna buy an NVIDIA rig now

~~~
devonkim
Funny, I thought ATI had a pretty large presence in Canada before AMD bought
them?

------
hatsunearu
According to NVIDIA's glassdoor, they have a thing where you can ask any time
to take time off for any amount of time. It means you have to stress out about
negotiation, according to reviews.

This seems to be a stark contrast between the normal policy!

------
lanius
How much vacation time does Nvidia offer?

------
oflordal
This is obviously a nice gesture by Nvidia but I always wonder how can it be
legal to have different amounts for father/mothers? Are there no laws on
discrimination based on sex in the US?

~~~
jedberg
It's a political 3rd rail. There are laws about discrimination based on sex in
the US, but you generally get a lot of flack for pointing out the unfairness
if it benefits women, which is mostly considered ok since it's making up for
the many years that the discrimination went the other way (and I'm actually ok
with that).

And to be fair, it's a hell of a lot harder on a birth mother than anyone
else. You'll notice adoptive mothers in this policy only get the 12 week
benefit too, so this one is already fairer than most.

~~~
tobz
Your use of "unfairness" sticks out to me, considering you go on to say you're
OK with it. Are you actually OK with the disparity or do you think it's
unfairness? Can't really be both.

~~~
MichaelGG
Unfair can simply mean not the same. Dunno about GP but this is a pretty
popular sentiment. Look at e.g. GitHub saying they won't consider racial or
sexist behaviour, depending on who is the offender. Look at recent popular
protests in the US, where leaders organize people on skin colour.

------
serg_chernata
Is there something going on right now about parental leave benefits? Just a
few stories below this one is a similar piece about Patagonia.

~~~
bing_dai
Hello, I am the person who submitted the link. I got to know the Nvidia story
last night because a long-term friend who works there posted it on social
media. He is newly wed, so he is understandably very excited about the new
policy about paternal leave.

It is indeed an interesting coincidence that there is another story about
parental leave at the front page.

------
Florin_Andrei
> _In no way should a 6 week old baby be in a nursery._

It's the price you must pay for having so much Freedom (TM).

~~~
phd514
It's the price they pay for taking on a mortgage payment that can't be met on
a single income.

~~~
esaym
I was kinda thinking the same thing but kept my mouth shut. My wife stays at
home and I mostly work from home. We aren't rich, but are doing alright.

~~~
phd514
Same here. I used to live in NYC, but planned for a significant lifestyle
change (move, job, etc.) with kids because I didn't want (and couldn't afford)
to pay someone else to watch them.

------
grondilu
I doubt it's related, but today NVIDIA's stock price is down 2.4%. I don't
remember it falling down that much in intraday for a while.

I don't know who took this decision to just give away money and free time to
employees, and maybe it's good PR after all, but I do hope this is not
announcing a trend.

~~~
EliRivers
I applaud it very much. When a company has money to give to someone, they can
give it to shareholders or employees (or just the bosses who set their own
remuneration). It's nice to see it going to employees. It's not just good PR;
it's good. I hope it is a trend, and I'm speaking as someone who currently
makes more money as a shareholder than from my job.

~~~
grondilu
Employees are supposed to receive a salary in exchange for their work. The
decision on how to distribute profits is, theoretically, made by shareholders.
Maybe they decided to give some to employees in order to improve morale or
something. If so, that's OK. If somehow the shareholders were left out of this
decision, via some authoritative action from the executives or something, it's
wrong.

~~~
EliRivers
"The decision on how to distribute profits is, theoretically, made by
shareholders"

I disagree strongly. When shareholders purchase their shares, the rights they
get with it are clear. Very, very commonly, they do not include the right to
set renumeration. Not theoretically. Not practically. Not at all. Non-voting
stock very deliberately gives shareholders no power.

"If somehow the shareholders were left out of this decision, via some
authoritative action from the executives or something, it's wrong."

I disagree very strongly. It is the job of the executives to make these
decisions. Their first duty is _not_ to shareholders, despite the pernicious
myth that there's some kind of legal obligation to do the best for
shareholders. Shareholders do not need to be consulted.

~~~
grondilu
They are not supposed to make decisions regarding personal management, but if
those decisions consist in throwing money at employees, they may certainly be
pissed off.

Shareholders literally _own_ the company. They have influence on _everything_
, at least indirectly. They vote the board of directors, so if they are not
happy with the way employees are thrown money at, they will sack the directors
and elect a board that will not do the same thing.

~~~
EliRivers
"They are not supposed to make decisions regarding personal management, but if
those decisions consist in throwing money at employees, they will certainly be
pissed off."

Not only are shareholders not _supposed_ to make such decisions, they also
actually don't make those decisions. Literally _owning_ the company doesn't
actually mean they can do what they like it, and that's how it should be. It's
not as if they're liable for anything the company does wrong, so even calling
it "ownership" is a leap.

Secondly, I am a shareholder and I applaud this. I'm not pissed off. I take a
long term view and I find the attitude of shareholder value above all to be
backwards and damaging.

I also know that the best shareholders could do is put up their own
nominations for directorship positions. It would damage the company and should
be done, frankly, only if the company was already a slow motion car crash.
Sometimes you see activists doing this as a prelude to getting as much money
as they can out of a healthy company.

Here's a company doing its job, looking after its employees and investing in
its future.

~~~
grondilu
> Secondly, I am a shareholder and I applaud this.

I'm a shareholder as well. I'm willing to believe this decision was made for
good reasons so I give the executives the benefit of the doubt, but to me it
_is_ slightly worrying.

You applaud this, fine. We disagree, still fine. There is no right or wrong
here, in the end it's only the votes that count. Because, if what the
executives do pisses enough shareholders, they will be voted out and unlike
you I believe this is all right.

------
tomjen3
This fucking over everybody who isn't going to have children, can't have
children or are die having children.

~~~
learc83
They can adopt and get the same 12 weeks away from work if they want to.

