
HTC Vive (Steam VR) is now available for pre-order - Timucin
http://www.htcvive.com
======
nilkn
Games/experiences like Budget Cuts, Hover Junkers, Tiltbrush, Modbox, and
Fantastic Contraptions are what sold me on the Vive. These are fundamentally
new approaches to gaming that just can't be replicated without everything the
Vive is offering, including the tracked controllers.

~~~
drewrv
Seriously! Room scale is the difference between a fancy monitor strapped to
your face and a whole new medium.

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coalescence
We've had a dev kit at work for a while and it's the first headset that I've
not wanted to take off. The ability to move around a scene and the wand make
the interaction really intuitive and rewarding. As for the social implications
of 'VR lockin', it'll be interesting to watch.

~~~
zanny
SteamVR uses OpenVR, which is a public API anyone can implement, I believe.

I'm hoping OSVR is successful from Razer.

~~~
ethbro
Valve deserves to be beaten with an internet flamebat for naming a SteamVR-
specific compatibility layer "OpenVR".

If I'm incorrect and there are merits to it, please enlighten me, but
everything I've read about OpenVR (and seen in their git repo) seems to only
be an accurate name for where the meaning "Open" == null.

~~~
zanny
The API is BSD licensed[1]. Anyone can use it, it is just not some consortium
standard, but anyone can fork it.

[https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr)

~~~
ethbro
If API + binary blobs + single company control + BSD license is the new
definition of open, then... hmm.

They should have called it ValveX. It's the best bad option among worse
options (and that's probably why Valve won't put more effort into opening it
up until the market matures), but it's not an open standard.

~~~
wmkn
It's not unlike OpenGL though, which does not have a open source reference
implementation either. Only the API specifications are open.

Most implementations are closed source binary blobs. Of course there is Mesa,
but that is is also a 3rd party implementation. No one would prevent you from
building an open source OpenVR implementation.

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rl3
I like how Vive is shipping with purpose-built VR controllers instead of an
Xbox One controller (ala Oculus Rift). That said, having the option to forego
controllers entirely would be preferable, and a nice way to reduce cost.

Both have a 2160x1200 display.

I'm curious which headset will be a) more comfortable and b) offer superior
stationary head tracking. The room-scale tracking on the Vive is nice, but I'm
thinking most people will prefer whichever has superior stationary tracking.

Supposedly the integrated headphones on the Rift will approach audiophile-
grade quality. The Vive is shipping with earbuds, so presumably less fidelity
there. Personally I wish both would ship without any audio equipment at all
since I'm just going to use my existing headphones and microphone.

~~~
zardo
>That said, having the option to forego controllers entirely would be
preferable

It's not good for HTC if it means splitting up the control schemes for the
platform, which forces developers to avoid games that only work with motion
controls.

~~~
matxip
Yes, exactly. I've stalked around VR communities for a long time, and control
fragmentation is a serious and persistent concern. There's also a perception
that a lot of people with a $1000 gaming rig will have gotten a gamepad at
some point -- part of why the "XBone" controller was seen as a joke when
announced (but also because it was the same event they reeled in Oculus Touch
launch time frame expectation).

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concernedctzn
It seems like the Vive should be able to play all the oculus launch games from
a technical standpoint, but not vice versa because every Vive game really
takes advantage of the finely tracked hand controllers and ability to wander
through a room.

Being able to intuitively grab and throw things in games like Job Simulator
and budget cuts was a really eye opening and amazingly fun experience.

------
strictnein
For those trying to order one: If you get an "Out of Stock" message, try
starting your order over in a new browser. Not sure if there was some weird
session issue, or maybe they released more preorder slots, but that did the
trick for me.

~~~
Zikes
The @htcvive Twitter account is recommending refreshing, also.

~~~
foenix
I don't think refreshing is working. I tried that and had to remove and re-add
it to the cart to get it to work.

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Sir_Cmpwn
Does anyone have the word on Linux support?

~~~
haydenlee
SteamVR doesn't support Linux yet AFAIK. Here are the min requirements:

[http://store.steampowered.com/app/323910/](http://store.steampowered.com/app/323910/)

~~~
dogma1138
The SteamVR API works on the OSX and Linux versions of Steam (it's some what
missing from SteamOS oddly enough).

It's not enabled by default and seem to be buggy as hell but no Vive software
support has been implemented, you can use (older versions before the support
was dropped) Oculus with SteamVR on Linux but it won't be pretty.

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orwhat
Just about the best comparison you'll be able to find:
[http://www.tested.com/tech/564110-should-you-pre-order-
oculu...](http://www.tested.com/tech/564110-should-you-pre-order-oculus-rift-
or-htc-vive/)

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Roritharr
959.69 € with Tax and Shipping to me in Germany.

Not something of an impulse buy for me.

------
simonhughes22
I just pre-ordered. Despite the clearly better quality of the Vive according
to every review I've read (specifically around the full body tracking) I am
worried the Oculus has much better brand awareness and will leave this in the
dust. Hoping I am wrong, as those $800 will go to waste. Anyone interested in
PS VR, also ?

~~~
dogma1138
Vive doesn't do full body tracking, I think you mean room scale tracking, if
so I hope you have a dedicated 15x15 room for that :)

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malka
I prefer to let other than me use the 1st generation of any new technology.

This way, I benefit from the improvment, and a lower price point.

~~~
BuckRogers
I understand the perspective but I think this is one of few situations where
that perspective is wrong.

Expecting a VR headset with roomspace support to ever be cheaper than a high-
end single LCD like a ROG[0], then you'll be waiting a long time. At least
until high end LCDs are driven lower and that's not even a 4K gaming LCD- the
prices on those won't be lower than a HMD.

There's amazing value in that $800 package and this is essentially 3rd gen in
my book. Oculus Rift would be closer to 2nd gen and the 90s headsets were the
1st gen.

As well as the price never dropping to something like $199 or $399 (without an
inferior experience like GearVR)- if you're old enough to have owned a 3dfx
Voodoo card in 1996, you'll know there will never be anything quite like the
"1st gen" experience ever again. The magic isn't the same down the road. Even
for people who are having THEIR first experience later on- because everyone
else around them has done it.

I'm sympathetic to the folks who don't want to or can't spend $800 on this,
but I think this is one case where it's worth going in.

[0][http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236...](http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236405&cm_re=asus_rog_lcd-_-24-236-405-_-Product)

~~~
Karunamon
How do you figure that the Vive is a full generation ahead of the Rift? Just
based on the fact that the Vive is targeted towards moving around (FPSes), and
the Rift towards sitting in place (Vehicle sims)?

Other than that one difference, both devices are very similar in their specs.

~~~
dogma1138
They both target the same type of games, the few room scale tracking games
that are currently in the Steam Work Shop / SteamVR portfolio aren't exactly
FPS games.

Oculus is betting that most gamers would still prefer to sit down while
playing and that roomscale tracking will be a novelty (which with the current
limitations of Vive it is).

This is pretty much the Wii vs Xbox360/PS3 type of control bet. The Wii did
well but the best games for it were more or less the ones that used
traditional controls, even the best first party games didn't really use the
motion aspects of the Wii that much/at all.

The Kinect and what ever the PS Eye camera thing was called also ended up as
being niche products that didn't really managed to build a sustainable
ecosystem.

Oculus is betting that sitting / standing with limited movement will be the
preferred gaming environment and I think they will be correct in that
assumption.

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drzaiusapelord
Anyone know how well this works on lower-tier video cards? I have an Nvidia
950 and I'm tempted to buy the Vive. The problem is that the suggested specs
are a 970 minimum, which easily has 30% more performance than my 950.

~~~
bryanlarsen
I have a 660, which is a very similar level of performance.

It seems strange to be willing to drop $800 on a headset and not spend $400 on
a video card. However, the next generation of video cards is the generation
that finally gets off the 28nm node, so I'm expecting a huge performance bump.
It would be nice to be able to wait for that.

HTC claims their 16nm process is 65% faster than 28nm, takes 1/2 the area, and
1/3 the power. For a video card, doubling the # of transistors basically
translates into double the performance, and even the lower power requirements
enable faster cards because high end cards are often power limited. Throw in a
bit of performance improvement from architectural improvements, and it's
certainly possible that the next gen of video cards will have 3X the
performance of current cards.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
I'm okay with another $350 for the card, but I want to avoid a situation where
I spend almost $1200 today only to be told I'll need a new card tomorrow. I
don't want a $350 card just as a 6-8 month stop-gap measure. I'd prefer to
limp by with my 950 if possible. Seems like that might not work out
considering the performance demands of VR.

~~~
bryanlarsen
Agreed. There are some blogs out there claiming that nVidia Pascal will be 10x
faster than Maxwell[1]. It's been partially debunked, but there's no doubt
that it's going to be a big improvement.

Fast video cards are important enough to VR that if that kind of power is
available, it's going to be used. A 970 may be enough now, but I don't think
it's going to be enough for long.

1: [http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-
gtc-2015/](http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/)

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taurath
I'm very suspicious of HTC's staying power in the market right now - their
phones sales are tanking and I'm not sure how long they'll be able to stay up
- their market value is lower than their cash on hand. If HTC folds expect
zero hardware support in the future regardless of how well this device does.

~~~
simonhughes22
There are rumors that they will spin off a separate company for the VR headset
to isolate it from the HTC death spiral

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interdrift
899 Euro. Oculus wins the price point!

~~~
cmcnally
I'm seeing $799.00 in the states. $829.00 shipped.

~~~
hutattedonmyarm
He's talking about the price in Euro, which is 899€ (~$985, that would include
about 23% VAT over the $799)

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leventyalcin
HTC Vive is £746.60 and VW Beetle is £795.
[https://www.gumtree.com/p/volkswagen/volkswagen-
beetle-2.0-3...](https://www.gumtree.com/p/volkswagen/volkswagen-
beetle-2.0-3dr/1157280746) lol

~~~
hollander
I think the Beetle gives a much more realistic 3D experience.

No seriously... About 10 years ago I was at a conference, and there was going
to be a discussion about something. This conference was organized by the
people behind a discussion website - the subject is not relevant. The website
forum had moderators.

Now this girl who was leading the discussion was explaining to us that the
discussion was just like an online discussion, except without keyboard and
screen. She would act as moderator, just like online, and guide the whole
thing.

I was amazed that she explained it like it was a complete new concept, to have
a discussion in a theatre hall, with people present, talking to and
interupting eachother.

Anyway, how long will it be that someone proposes to make a drive in a real
beetle, just like one in VR?

~~~
strictnein
It's actually kind of an interesting question: How many kids born today (or in
the next 5 years?) will experience driving cars only in VR?

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ElijahLynn
That is definitely a badass promo video. Makes me want to scrounge up some
dollars and plop down $800 for one. I am in no position to do that but it
makes me want too!

So exciting, 2016, year of consumer VR/AR!

