
Plasma Mobile – Turns your phone into a fully open hacking device - mintplant
https://plasma-mobile.org/
======
benmcnelly
The power of things like this taking off is not what they are now, but what
they can be. There are lots of real people with their own good reasons to not
be tied to Google/Apple, and whats really impressive here is that unlike
firefox OS, they are (in my opinion) doing this in a much better way.

As this catches on, it only helps improve linux hardware (ARM) support,
telephony applications for linux, and the like. As well as being able to have
(or make for others) a truly remarkable user interface and apps. This is a
mobile computer, running linux, running a desktop environment (not webkit, or
Java VM, or closed source code) that only limits what you can make by your
skill and imagination.

Yes it looks pretty mediocre now, but that's because its waiting on you to get
involved.

~~~
lphnull
I used to have that. It was my Nokia n900. I was able to pull up live
thumbnail previews of all apps running in the background, and this included
live simultaneous previews of: youtube videos in a web browser, games, and
Debian, without lag. Try doing that on today's technology. It had a
wonderfully acurate resistive touch screen that was pressure senstive that was
really good for drawing and coloring! The camera would start up immediately as
soon as I opened the shutter, even while the screen is off and in a sleep
state. My modern android device takes so much longer to even get the shutter
ready.

I loved always having access to a physical keyboard and an actual root linux
shell out of the box without any hacking. I loved that my n900 behaved more
like a computer and less like "mobile" device.

Too bad Nokia decided to end support for the n900. Most of its developers and
lots of its users abandoned ship, and now I only use it as a camera because
the n900 is stuck in 2009, and the web in 2016 is so bloated and heavy that
nothing- not even the web browser or the unupdated apps- are usable now.

~~~
benmcnelly
You are not alone, I have two good friends that still have theirs too, and
nothing will ever be good enough for them again. That phone spoiled them, and
is the direction they wish phones went. Alas, they have gone the way of the
masses instead, but you know if someone like a OnePlus came out with a modern
powered phone, with a big battery (phone size doesn't matter to us), a
physical keyboard, dual sim, expandable memory and an open source OS, there
would be DOZENS of us that would snap it up. Dozens!

~~~
imjustsaying
Maddox would enjoy a reboot, too.

[http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone](http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone)

~~~
cure
Owwww, the E70! I loved that phone. Still have mine.

~~~
Gruselbauer
I loved Nokia's smartphones so much. E70, E61, N900... Those were the
pinnacles of smartphoning for me. Their successors somehow manage to fall
short in vital aspects every single time, it's beyond frustrating.

~~~
digi_owl
Best i can tell its because back then smartphones were for productivity first
and foremost. These days they are for media consumption.

------
hackuser
If I understand correctly, this is a user environment. What OS does it run on?
A Linux distro? Android?

I don't see that detail mentioned on the site. Perhaps people familiar with
KDE and Plasma know, but I don't. Or perhaps I'm overlooking something obvious
...

EDIT: Wikipedia says that Plasma is a desktop environment, not an OS, and that
"Plasma Mobile is a Plasma variant for smartphones".

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_5)

~~~
jbob2000
No, I'm lost as well. What the hell is this thing? What the hell is a hacking
device?

~~~
pzone
Basically, Ubuntu Touch with Plasma instead of Unity.

------
owaislone
Just like desktop KDE, the UI doesn't appeal to me. I find it too flashy and
kind of "in your face".

My favorite mobile OS so far has been Meego that ran on N9. That device was
mind blowing and that OS. Amazing. It had such a simple, yet useful UI. Multi-
tasking was better than what even Android has now. I hope Jolla doesn't die
like that and we see a lot more devices come out running Sailfish.

~~~
Trufa
I know this is a completely subjective matter but I'm really surprised you'd
use the word flashy and in your face as a description, I really like it, but
boring and dull could fit better as a criticism IMO, specially with older
versions, I'm really curious about your choice of words, this is what it looks
like to me:

[http://i.imgur.com/J82pZMh.png](http://i.imgur.com/J82pZMh.png)

You'd say that is flashy? Just curious :)

~~~
duaneb
That screenshot is almost entirely text. It doesn't give a sense of the actual
KDE ui.

~~~
mongrol
Actually it's almost entirely white space, which does give a sense of the
actual KDE ui.

------
bshah
Hello,

Main plasma mobile developer here, I wanted to reply some questions that
surfaced in comments and give a bit of overview on current state and where we
need help. We initially based it on Ubuntu Touch, and later on started using
our own stack based on Cyanogenmod, more information on it at :
[http://blog.bshah.in/2016/05/02/plasma-mobile-new-base-
syste...](http://blog.bshah.in/2016/05/02/plasma-mobile-new-base-system/)

So basically currently Plasma Mobile is made of,

    
    
      - KDE Frameworks
      - kwin_wayland
      - Plasma workspace
      - Plasma phone shell
      - Various Applications
    

And to run Plasma Mobile stack on mobile devices, we have

    
    
      - Minimal Cyanongenmod base
      - LXC userspace tools for android
      - Neon rootfs with Plasma Mobile
    

Q: Why not use Mer and/or Ubuntu Touch A: This question is mostly answered in
the blog post I linked above, Mer is using RPM .spec based packaging and we
don't have resources and as well people who have expertise in RPM packaging,
about Ubuntu Touch, we initially based our stack on top of Ubuntu Touch,
however later we ended up diverging on various levels, for example libhybris,
Qt etc. and it was impossible to keep using Ubuntu Touch stack

Q: Why we are using libhybris and not freedreno?

A: Short answer: In theory, we can use freedreno.

Long answer: kwin_wayland supports DRM backend, and freedreno provides the DRM
on android devices, however we don't have access to device which supports
freedreno easily. For instance I attempted to get mainline kernel working on
Nexus 5 device and also submitted some device tree source files to Linux
kernel tree, and will be available in kernel 4.9 release.. But sadly I was not
able to finish this project

Q: Why not other devices?

A: Currently we don't have access to multiple devices, however we will be
happy to help the community members to "port" or in other words, make Plasma
mobile run on their devices.

Q: Where we need help?

A: You can help on pretty much everything.. Some things that come to mind, are

    
    
      - Porting to other devices
      - Various Plasma on Wayland todo items
      - More applications for Plasma mobile
      - Work on base system
    

That said, if you have any questions feel free to reach me at bshah@kde.org,
or to Plasma team at plasma-devel@kde.org mailing list.

Edit: edited for line breaks

~~~
shmerl
_> kwin_wayland supports DRM backend, and freedreno provides the DRM on
android devices, however we don't have access to device which supports
freedreno easily. For instance I attempted to get mainline kernel working on
Nexus 5 device and also submitted some device tree source files to Linux
kernel tree, and will be available in kernel 4.9 release.. But sadly I was not
able to finish this project_

Thanks! So were you able to get a usable result on Nexus 5? Sounds like it's
the best candidate for this task. Do you plan to continue that effort, or
there are some blockers that you couldn't resolve? I'm running Sailfish on
Nexus 5 now, which uses libhybris and CM kernel with Qualcomm blobs, but I'm
interested in more open alternative, and without driver blobs as well.

~~~
bshah
> Thanks! So were you able to get a usable result on Nexus 5? Sounds like it's
> the best candidate for this task. Do you plan to continue that effort, or
> there are some blockers that you couldn't resolve?

Not really there are not much important blocker to get DRM working, however
main thing is I don't really have free time to continue that effort.

~~~
shmerl
I don't have a spare device now, but if I'll get one, I'll be interested in
looking into it if I'll have time. Did you document your efforts anywhere?

------
deadcast
Whoa very cool! Happy to see a new, free phone OS. I'm currently switching to
Replicant and moving away from the Apple/Google controlled phone world.

~~~
SparkyMcUnicorn
Why did you choose Replicant over CopperheadOS? I've been looking at different
ROMs like these and Replicant seems to only maintain pretty old devices which
steered me away, plus the fact that it's still on KitKat.

~~~
k__
This seems to be the main problem with android alternatives.

I have a Huawei Honor, but can't find any Android alternatives for it.

~~~
st3v3r
In order to get the android alternative on there, someone has to do the work
to get it on there in the first place. If no one has done it for your device,
then that job falls to you. Which is why most of these target Nexus devices,
because those are the easiest to do the work for (or it's already done).

~~~
k__
What has to be done for this?

Is this hardcore hacking action stuff or can this be done by the average CS-
major/Developer?

------
lytedev
Interface seems gratuitously large except the status bar and clock and
whatnot. In all the shots of the home screen (?) the on-screen navigation
buttons seem to cover the labels of the app icons... sometimes. The "Muon" app
has a smaller icon so the label sits higher... looks not so great.

However, it seems they're trying to appeal to the more Libre folks - anti-all-
current-smartphone-OS-vendors and their watchful eyes - who are generally
developer types -- at least as far as I know. And those types of people are
usually willing to give in the UX department.

I'd love to see this (and any alternative smartphone OS) project succeed, but
it's got a fair amount of growing to do before that happens in my opinion.

I would love to someday have Linux running on my phone and just be able to do
whatever the heck I want with it with simple APIs for interacting with sensors
and cellular voice/sms/data just working. Like Arch Linux for your smartphone.
That would be so fun to hack on I think.

~~~
benmcnelly
I hope that you are right and this turns into that, but its also an
opportunity for someone to branch it off into a commercial product. Some
people don't want a pocket computer, they want a groomed and simple to use OS
with user experience in mind, that "just works".

------
iUsedToCode
I've been using Linux on desktop for years and love how flexible and open it
is. I use maybe 1% of its capabilities and it's amazing.

I'd love to be able to have a working, stable and open mobile system. I don't
want to be locked in into Google because i don't trust them (or anybody else)
enough.

Android is great but i miss linux-like feeling of possibilities. But it can be
due to my lack of technical skills. Maybe if i rooted the phone it'd be good
enough now?

Anyway, i hope they succeed.

~~~
nathcd
> Android is great but i miss linux-like feeling of possibilities.

One way to take a step in this direction without root is with Termux and its
addons (android 5+ only). It's made me much more content on android, although
it'll only be truly comfortable if you plug in a keyboard or your phone has a
physical keyboard.

[https://termux.com/](https://termux.com/)

[https://github.com/termux](https://github.com/termux)

------
Etheryte
What is it with using scroll hijacking on flashy product pages? If I can't use
the page normally, I won't use it.

~~~
ricogallo
This. I hate to readjust my usual scrolling habit just because they _think_
their unique scrolling friction is better.

~~~
majewsky
FF 49 on Linux here - and everything scrolls as expected. No hijacking.

------
INTPnerd
The intro video is very...interesting. They have this fast paced, upbeat music
while they very slowly do things on the phone, like make phone calls. It felt
like they thought we should be impressed it can make phone calls.

~~~
anoother
> they thought we should be impressed it can make phone calls.

Oh, but you _should_ be impressed. For how long could OpenMoko not make phone
calls?

Open-source phone OSs have a habit of neglecting actual phone functionality.
So I think it's great that they highlight it.

~~~
seba_dos1
I preordered my Neo Freerunner and it was able to make phone calls since day
zero.

Of course, Neo1973 was a different story, as it pretty much wasn't supposed to
be fully working on day zero ;)

~~~
majewsky
I had a friend how got a Freerunner, but he returned it after a few weeks
because "no matter how awesome it is, I need something that can actually make
phone calls". So it certainly didn't work for him on day zero.

~~~
schlowmo
Can't second that ;). While my Freerunner was indeed able to do phone calls on
day zero, it also turned in hands-free talking automagically without any
possibility to turn it off. This was a lot "fun" especially in public places.
So maybe we are talking about the definition of "making phone calls" here.

I then flashed a fully featured Debian on it which was able to do everything
except making phone calls. I was so excited about that while all my non-techie
friends were like "Well, lucky you but now you have a so called Smartphone
which isn't even a phone."

Dropped it as a daily driver after two weeks or so to leave it on my desk for
a long time until someone on the Freerunner mailing list asked if someone is
willing to sell theirs. 20 people offered theirs for free so I couldn't get
rid of mine. Gave it to an Open Device Lab then, they still own it but never
listed it in their device list.

But somehow I don't regret buying it in the first place.

------
gue5t
How do they justify calling it "fully open" when it uses libHybris to support
binary blobs for Android just to get graphics and other essentials working?

~~~
awinter-py
yeah. anything that interacts with the radio hardware is going to interact
with a crappy vendor RTOS, aka 'radio OS'.

Running linux on my phone is cool, but getting away from binary blobs would be
priceless.

More here:
[http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_syste...](http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone)

------
brianzelip
Your landing page's first call-to-action has gotten caught up in the cascade!

If the anchor text ("VIDEO INTRO") isn't hovered while its parent `div` is,
the result is black text on black bg.

------
shmerl
Well, there weren't any major updates from them lately (the intro video is
from Jul 25, 2015). I'm waiting for some handset device which can run it
properly with Wayland on native GPU drivers and Mesa, without any libhybris
and Android graphics blobs.

Freedreno[1] kind of was progressing to enable that, but I'm not sure if there
is any handset around which would be usable in native form given there some
other drivers involved besides the GPU. Did anyone try that with Google
Pixels?

[1].
[https://github.com/freedreno/freedreno/wiki](https://github.com/freedreno/freedreno/wiki)

------
darklajid
I like this announcement and still root for any alternative phone platform.
The thing is - which device would I buy?

Plasma Mobile supports the Nexus 5 and (maybe) the OnePlus One right now.
CopperheadOS doesn't support either of those. I was unable to get a reliable
source for supported devices for Ubuntu Phone (best I found was [1], not even
sure if that's related) and so far I don't believe that the supported devices
for THAT platform intersect with the other two.

Searching for sailfishOS device support only comes up with Jolla phones. It
seems as if not only is the market lacking alternative systems, it's also near
impossible to try out the ones that do exist. Buying a device for some
experimental OS is something I have done (Flame for FxOs - still sad that it
died, owned a Palm Pre), but cumbersome and expensive.

1:
[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices](https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices)

~~~
zanny
Plasma Mobile is more meant to be a standardization platform to make phone
OSes than the be all end all one in and of itself.

Copperhead is just a liberated Android for the most part, it just replaces
Replicant.

Since Jolla develops sailfishOS, and the OS itself is mostly proprietary, it
should be no surprise there isn't a hobbyist community supporting it on
Android phones.

Plasma Mobile and Firefox OS were both in a class that could feasibly
eventually sell phones with it stock. Its the same problem as the desktop
Linux ecosystem - as long as you have to actually install the OS yourself, the
market is nonexistent compared to the preinstalled market. You need units in
stores in peoples faces before you can start making meaningful inroads into
market adoption.

~~~
milcron
> Copperhead is just a liberated Android for the most part, it just replaces
> Replicant.

"Liberated" to the extent that it removes Google stuff such as Play Services,
yes. However CopperheadOS is not completely libre. They do include non-free 3D
drivers, for instance.

I agree that Copperhead largely appeals to the same group of people, and it's
much more actively developed.

------
deft
[https://plasma-mobile.org/nexus-5/](https://plasma-mobile.org/nexus-5/) kind
of hard to find but here's how one can actually use it. Any info on the
network side of things?

~~~
peller
Was just researching that myself. In America at least, looks like everybody
except Verizon. But what I could find looks to be 2-3 years old:

[http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-
communications/mobil...](http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-
communications/mobile-phones/nexus-5-coming-to-every-major-us-carrier-but-
verizon-1195521)

hardware specs:
[http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php](http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php)

------
sockopen
Video was fun with time being 13:37, Linus giving the finger, etc... but the
actual UX seems gross and over-sized (albeit not quite as bad as FireFox OS).

I'm sure they will have at least a couple dozen of installs.

~~~
mixedCase
UX is very obviously on super early stages.

However Plasma 5 still has its fair share of UX issues here and there so I'm
crossing fingers the KDE design community gets its hands on this.

------
jrochkind1
> Plasma Mobile is developed by one of the most reputable and longest-standing
> software development organisations in the world.

But you don't want to clearly tell us who it is?

~~~
dom0
The KDE logo is literally in the hero image several centimeters tall. The
footer directly says "KDE Developers" and the copyright notice is "© 2015-16
KDE e.V.". Plasma has been a major KDE brand for a few years.

------
codedokode
I think the title is misleading. This project is about installing KDE on a
smartphone over Cyanogenmod (which is a modified build of Android).

I am totally against Google and its restrictions and tracking proprietary code
in Android but this project looks more like an attempt to get user base to
sell them some paid services later.

Do you really need KDE to make your phone "hackable"?

Google did a lot to polish Android code and released it under an open license.
I doubt that project is able to invest a comparable amount of work.

Having the same interface on desktop and mobile devices is not going to work
well.

UPD: their installer installs a firmware (like twrp) that makes your phone
unprotected from reflashing and stealing your data or installing a backdoor if
someone gets physical access to the phone. They do not warn about it.

~~~
bshah
We do require device to be unlocked, how different is it from installing twrp?
At this point installer is not finalized and that wouldn't be part of released
product.

------
geuis
Ack, please kill/remove the scroll jacking. Not good.

------
oldgun
Marvelous. Kudos to all who contributed to this project!

I'm now very expecting the KDE tablet.

~~~
chriswarbo
Last I heard it got cancelled:
[https://lwn.net/Articles/606100/](https://lwn.net/Articles/606100/)

------
azurelogic
I was really hoping for a mobile equivalent to Kali Linux here based on the
term "hacking device" in the title. :sadparrot:

~~~
ZenoArrow
Kali is just a Linux distro. Most/all tools in Kali are available in other
distros, and not just the 'hacking' distros. In other words, you can still run
Metasploit and suchlike on something like Plasma Mobile.

~~~
filz33
What is the best way to install kali or wifite on android galaxy note 3 ?

------
overcast
It's good to see some new projects. But I guess I'm just in the camp where my
phone is something I don't want to mess around with. Love tinkering with
things, been piecing together computers since I was a kid. But when it comes
to phone, I want it to just work without my intervention. I don't care if
there is zero control.

------
dvcrn
"Fully open hacking device" \- I expected something like a Backtrack / Kali
Linux ROM for Anddroid

------
erikb
Okay, let's summarize: There is a need, but this may not be its satisfaction.
A pity that it made it to front page entry 1 already before really working on
user needs.

E.g. if you make a video, don't make it 6 minutes long, don't use such kind of
annoying background music, don't advertise that you can call someone. It's
like advertising a computer by showing that it can connect with a USB mouse.
Show us the dev environment for apps, and how far your API can look into the
system. Show us the operating system and its features, e.g. by showing that
someone manipulates the list of processes in screenlock widgets or something.
Show us the people who do cool stuff with it that they couldn't do in a walled
garden environment.

~~~
majewsky
> A pity that it made it to front page entry 1 already before really working
> on user needs.

The old free software dilemma: Do you wait until your product is polished,
thus cutting yourself off all possible publicity? Or will you be vocal about
your development efforts, and stand the complaints about rough edges, in order
to attract helping hands?

~~~
erikb
This is not a question of an unfair world and you must decide either one of
the choices you give. You can do both, if you can communicate well.
Communication is a skill, like programming, that can be learned. And
especially if you communicate with the masses it is less about understanding
people and more about understanding patterns. Totally possible for developers
to learn.

E.g. both your messages target different people. Why inform users about your
work in progress product instead of developers who may help you? And is this
page really the best way to generate helping hands or is this more a user ad?

------
ocdtrekkie
Sadly, my recurring problem is that as a Verizon customer, I have exactly zero
options outside the big two and an obsolete version of the third. (I'm
carrying a Lumia 929, presently.) Nobody bothers developing third party OS
offerings that work on Verizon networks.

~~~
shmerl
T-Mobile is flexible and allows using any compatible LTE handset. They don't
care what OS you use on it.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
T-Mobile works nowhere, and is the only carrier which is actively countering
net neutrality.

Verizon is also required to allow using any compatible LTE handset, and they
aren't allowed to care what OS you use on it. The problem is that nobody is
developing them.

~~~
shmerl
_> T-Mobile works nowhere, and is the only carrier which is actively
countering net neutrality._

It works way better than a few years ago, and for the reference, almost all
mobile providers, including Verizon[1] and AT&T[2] (not sure about Sprint) are
violating Net Neutrality by giving preferential treatment to their own
services.

[1]. [https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Begins-Zero-
Rati...](https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Begins-Zero-Rating-
Sports-to-Salvage-Go90-Service-138199)

[2]. [https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Not-Worried-About-
Re...](https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Not-Worried-About-Regulatory-
Backlash-to-Zero-Rating-Plan-137850)

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Neither of those are pleasant, but neither is as bad as T-Mobile, who's
primary marketing campaign is about what apps do and don't count towards data
caps.

They've also been promoting sleazy marketing strategies like claiming to have
"no contract", while stabbing people by cancelling people's device payment
plans if they cancel service. I mean, they have only gotten worse since their
primary marketing appeal was an attractive woman in a skin-tight leather suit.

~~~
shmerl
_> Neither of those are pleasant, but neither is as bad as T-Mobile_

They aren't any better, if not worse, because in contrast to T-Mobile, AT&T
and Verizon are asking for money from other services if they want be exempt
from caps. In my view they are all bad when Net Neutrality is concerned. It
can be fixed only with better law which ban zero rating, and as well bans caps
as a method of fleecing users.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Data caps/tiers/metering is basically the only fair way to provide data
service. "Unlimited" is inherently flawed as a product concept.

~~~
shmerl
_> Data caps/tiers/metering is basically the only fair way to provide data
service. "Unlimited" is inherently flawed as a product concept._

It was proven time and again that data caps are driven by greed, not by
necessity. That's clear in wireline networks where congestion isn't a problem
at all, and can be as well demonstrated in mobile ones, where spectrum limit
can be an issue. Caps don't prevent network congestion in mobile networks.
I.e. don't pretend it's a network management tool, it's not. It's just money
gouging tool. So it has nothing to do with fairness.

ISPs already have tiers for bandwidth. There is no need to use caps as well.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Nonsense. If you believe the whole "driven by greed" drivel, you have never
looked at how a business operates in your life. It's no more or less greedy
than raising prices for everyone (which would otherwise happen). The
difference is, data caps are a tax on the top 1% of users, rather than a tax
on everyone.

~~~
shmerl
Not true. Data caps apply to everyone, not to 1% of users. And they are driven
by greed, not by expenses or technical necessity, because ISPs themselves
don't spend more because of more traffic. And those who have that greed will
find any way to fleece their users. Raising prices for everyone without need
is exactly greed, but happens when competition isn't enough to put them in
place. In other words it's a sick result of lack of competition. And trying to
pretend it's about some "fairness", means supporting crooks and thinking being
a crook is fair.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
Again, it's clear you do not understand how any of this works. It has nothing
to do with technical necessity, or even expenses of delivering a specific
user's service. Your focus on that indicates you have no understanding of the
market. An explanation of business economics is beyond the scope of what I can
fit in a reasonable comment.

This is a simplified example of how tiered pricing works in a business sense I
wrote up a few weeks ago to explain it:
[https://plus.google.com/+JakeWeisz/posts/8dSeCHrzZpo](https://plus.google.com/+JakeWeisz/posts/8dSeCHrzZpo)

~~~
shmerl
_> It has nothing to do with technical necessity, or even expenses of
delivering a specific user's service._

Exactly my point. Therefore it's driven by greed, and is an indication of
monopoly abuse. To repeat what I said. ISPs already have tired plans for
_bandwidth_, and those who are heavier users can pay more for more bandwidth,
which has technical necessity behind it. There is completely no need in caps.

See [https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Senator-Wyden-ATT-
Merger...](https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Senator-Wyden-ATT-Merger-Poses-
Huge-Threat-to-Net-Neutrality-138247)

 _> Your focus on that indicates you have no understanding of the market._

I understand it. The only reason this garbage like caps and violation of Net
Neutrality happens is lack of competition, and crooks taking advantage of that
fact in the context of insufficient regulations to prevent them.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
No, it's not "driven by greed", it's "driven by basic math". There's nothing
abusive about asking people using your service to pay more than the people who
use it the least. And it has nothing to do with "monopoly abuse", we have four
(five-ish) national carriers as well as plenty of regional offerings. Mobile
providers are the least monopolistic telecoms in the industry right now.

The idea of paying for network speed is a poor one: It means the network is
intentionally crippling their product when they can provide better, and
they're under no obligation to even guarantee the speed you pay for. Paying
for network speed is not good for the consumer.

Paying for usage is the ideal situation, because the provider and the customer
have aligned interests. It's in the best interest of the provider to provide
the fastest, highest quality service, so that users can consume the most data.
And consumers get the best possible product, without being intentionally
gimped or throttled.

~~~
shmerl
_> No, it's not "driven by greed", it's "driven by basic math"._

Stop the demagoguery please. Calling greed "math" doesn't change it being
greed.

 _> Paying for usage is the ideal situation_

You sound like an ISP shill. Are you one? Paying for usage is horrendous,
because ISPs who own media services disadvantage competing media services, by
excluding their own from caps. This should be forbidden not just by Net
Neutraility, but simply by antitrust law. But I suppose you think monopoly is
ideal situation too, right? And you'd claim there is nothing wrong with
"asking to pay more" because people have no choice but to use the abusive
monopolist if they want service, and it's not greed but "basic math". Yeah,
right.

Arguing with shills is pointless though, so I finished here. Everything was
said above already anyway.

~~~
ocdtrekkie
It literally has nothing to do with greed. I explained this, my link provided
an example. But you seem hung up on T-Mobile's borderline fraudulent
advertising scheme.

I have no business in the ISP space, accusing someone of being a shill because
you disagree with them basically renders you useless in a discussion, and
speaks to your inability to look at the argument objectively.

------
TheAceOfHearts
This looks interesting. Flashing it on my old Nexus 5 to try it out.

Hopefully I don't send up swallowing these words, but I've gotta say that they
appear to have made it extremely easy to install this. Running two fastboot
commands, cloning a repo, and running a shell script is pretty easy, and
making it easy goes a long way towards making it approachable.

EDIT: Install script is broken on macOS. I fixed it and got it flashed. It's
dreadfully slow. :( I'd consider stability and performance my top two
priorities. I already largely hate mobile devices, so the poor performance is
really frustrating. I still need to play around with it to see what the other
capabilities are like.

------
nathcd
On desktop my preferred environments are Xfce and i3, but I wonder why GNOME
isn't pushing in this same direction as Plasma Mobile and Unity. (Unless they
are and I'm not aware?) It seems like out of all the main DEs, GNOME3 is the
nearest to being suited for mobile and touch screens, perhaps more so than
Unity (IMO). A google search turns up a few initiatives/blog posts throughout
the years that speak of bringing GNOME to mobile, but nothing seems to have
come of any of them as far as I can tell.

------
bachmeier
It feels like we've seen this before. Is there any reason to expect this to be
something I'll actually be able to use? I'm not able to use Firefox OS or
Ubuntu on my phone now.

------
sangnoir
What is the current state of the art for driving monitors via mini-USB? Are
there generic HDMI/DVI dongles? It would be awesome I'd I could just boot into
Linux and plugin a monitor, Bluetooth KB & mouse and start coding. I'm not
confident enough to use Plasma as my daily driver, but fortunately it supports
multirom (for my phone) so I will be able to dual-boot into Android for day-
to-day usage.

------
eumoria
Off topic but I've used every touch interface that exists in the consumer
market and I'd give my soul for a real keyboard. I'd pay 1200 for a real
keyboard with a modern mobile OS. Touch keyboards suck... we've all gotten
used to them and better with them but they still suck.

~~~
eddieh
You could pay $299:
[http://shop.blackberry.com/store/bbrryus/en_US/pd/productID....](http://shop.blackberry.com/store/bbrryus/en_US/pd/productID.322154700/categoryID.68121100/parentCategoryID.66826200)

Or $425:
[http://store.shopblackberry.com/store/bbrryus/en_US/pd/produ...](http://store.shopblackberry.com/store/bbrryus/en_US/pd/productID.330709100/categoryID.66826200)

Any particular reason those don't work for you?

------
prophesi
Alternative phone OS's like this and Kali Nethunter really make me wish there
was a physical keyboard peripheral for the Nexus 5. A bulky case with a slide-
out keyboard that connected via bluetooth would work wonders, even if it's
still too small to use anything more than just your thumbs.

------
bskdjx
This is how I found hacker news and combinatorial back in 2011.

I'd just gotten my first smartphone and I went and searched for a "hacking
app". An app for hacker news came up instead.

Several usr names and smartphones (and two dumb phones) later, I check check
this site daily.

------
skywhopper
Does it double the speed of my scrolling on my phone like the website does to
my browser?

------
qwertyuiop924
The cool thing about this is that unlike so many phone projects, it works
right now. This and Sailfish seem to be the only real viable iOS/Android
competitors.

------
zerr
Finally, the platform with the sane API - C++/Qt.

~~~
pjmlp
Ubuntu Phone, Sailfish and Blackberry also had it.

It didn't help them that much.

Plus as far as I am aware, none of them contributed anything from their forks
back to the Qt community.

~~~
mhall119
Ubuntu's Qt changes and platform implementation have been upstreamed. I'm
willing to bet that Sailfish's have been too.

~~~
pjmlp
Are you sure?

My assumption is due to the state of QtMobility vs the APIs available on these
other systems.

------
pavanky
I hope they support the Nexus 6. I am lining up to buy a new phone and this
would be a great use for my old faithful.

------
droopybuns
Show me baseband source and then I'll believe the claim that this is a "open
hacking device."

Language abusers.

------
swang
i'm looking at this but for tablets. wonder if it'll run on older tablets.

i have the nexus 7 original. i've tried running custom roms of the latest
android os and it's just too laggy. would love something that is custom.

------
forvelin
looks fancy,I hope it will do better than sailfish os.

any luck with android sandboxing, maybe dalvik ?

------
legulere
How does the sandboxing work?

~~~
moosingin3space
From what libraries/infrastructure they claim they're using, it seems like
Flatpak would be the obvious choice for sandboxing.

------
ForFreedom
Is that another OS?

------
mhagemeister
This is really awesome! Minor nitpick: Please remove scrolljacking from the
site. Scrolling on a Touchpad on Mac feels off, because of smoothscroll.js

------
miguelrochefort
Isn't this the ugliest UI.

