
I’m Suing Lyft - jbegley
https://medium.com/@alturkos/why-im-suing-lyft-6a409e316d1f
======
deogeo
> Lyft’s failure to properly investigate the failues of their system that lead
> to my kidnapping and rape has severely hampered the ongoing criminal
> investigation.

Does anyone know more about this story? Except this line that is not further
elaborated, the post says nothing of why the police were ineffective. And as a
matter of principle, shouldn't Lyft be _compelled_ with warrants/subpoenas to
provide any records required by the investigation? I certainly don't want to
rely on the benevolence of corporations for criminal investigations. So I'd
classify this story as a failure of the police first, and Lyft only second.

~~~
Lazare
Here's some more backstory on the police aspect:
[https://www.thedailybeast.com/assault-victims-sue-nypd-
over-...](https://www.thedailybeast.com/assault-victims-sue-nypd-over-rape-
investigations)

So yes, apparently/allegedly, the police _did_ fail, and the FBI is
(apparently?) looking into the claims.

------
tzs
Reading the plaintiff's complaint, it says that she took a Lyft home. She did
not know that anything bad happened on the trip until she looked at her
account and noticed that what should have been a 3 mile trip had been an 18
mile trip.

She also noticed vaginal pain and bleeding, realized that something bad must
have happened during that trip, and went to the police to report kidnapping
and rape. A rape kit was administered and the results identified semen of at
least two men.

Then:

> 42\. The NYPD opened an investigation. As part of that investigation, ALISON
> was asked to ride along in the back of a police car and retrace the route
> that was taken the night of her attack in an effort to help her recover a
> more detailed memory of what happened to her that fateful night.

> 43\. As she rode in the back of the police car the night of the reenactment,
> the horrible memories she had blocked from her mind came flooding back and
> she remembered the terrifying details of how she was held at gunpoint by the
> driver, taken across state lines and repeatedly raped in the back of the car
> by at least two other men.

That kind of reenactment has a very high risk of causing false memories. Is
NYPD aware of that, and do they take proper steps to avoid it, or did they
make plaintiffs case a lot harder right there?

This might not tank a civil case, where you only need a preponderance of the
evidence, but sounds like something that could make a criminal case hopeless
since that requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I wonder if that has
anything to do with the apparent lack of progress of the criminal
investigation?

Police departments really really need to have experts in human memory on hand,
and require that those experts be present when investigators do anything that
involves the memory of victims, suspects, and witnesses.

~~~
klipt
So they have a rape kit and they know who the driver was, can't they at least
see if the DNA matches?

Also if the driver took a very different route to what she requested on her
phone that alone seems suspicious.

~~~
TearsInTheRain
Gotta be enough to subpoena the driver's phone's location or get some footage
along the route.

------
kbos87
I have a lot of empathy for what happened to this person. It’s something that
obviously nobody should have to go through.

But I also have a hard time defining what the ideal would look like here. If
Lyft were to immediately act on any accusation of wrongdoing, the 0.001% of
bad actors would be prevented from acting badly once again. But we’d also be
living in a world where a customer complaint instantly means the loss of
income for someone who is likely barely scraping by and supposed to be
innocent until they are proven guilty.

The problem is that once everyone knows that that is how the deck is stacked,
the 99.999% of drivers who never act badly are in an even more vulnerable
position and at the whims of their customers.

I’m not saying I disagree that Lyft acted poorly here or that I don’t believe
the victim. I am saying I don’t see a clear path to fixing this. It seems like
a really short sighted move by Lyft and I have to wonder if it’s maybe because
it’s nearly impossible for them to sort true from false amongst all of the
reports they receive in a given day, especially without the help of a police
report.

~~~
mrnobody_67
Really??

A phone call to gather facts vs. a generic email would be a good start, given
the seriousness of the situation.

Not forcing her to pay for her ride seems like common decency, even at the
minor risk of some fraud. It seems that with GPS they should be able to tell
she wasn't delivered to her original destination and instead was moved across
state lines.

Immediate removal of the driver following an official police complaint would
be the next obvious step, followed by more personal follow-up, and a cash
settlement offer.

~~~
fearingreprisal
Other articles have pointed out that she hadn't immediately reported the rape
to Lyft. The medium article makes it sound like Lyft were completely
indifferent to the kidnapping and rape, but the related articles seem to agree
that the first contact Lyft had was a complaint regarding her charge. Lyft
themselves claim that the police had not given them a subpoena for information
until six months after the incident had taken place. I'm very sympathetic
towards Ms Turkos and feel for what she's been through, but the way this
article is written is very disingenuous.

~~~
addielynn
I'm seriously all for women's and victim's rights (I'm a woman btw). Something
seems off here. She is suing Lyft, ok. NO WHERE that I can see, does she
demand that her rapists be prosecuted and be sentenced for their crime. Her
focus is only on suing Lyft. If I was raped, I would be demanding that my
rapists be charged and sent to prison, not only for closure for myself, the
security of knowing they are off the street and I'm not in danger anymore, but
also knowing they won't be able to do this to another woman! Instead it's all
about Lyft not taking her complaint seriously and being insensitive. It
appears she didn't even tell them what happened right away. Am I missing
something?

------
Beefin
I truly have empathy for Ms Turkos, but I have trouble diving deeper into both
the headline and her steps following the police report.

It's been 2 years since she reported the incident to the police and she's not
sharing what they did? How is someone able to continue driving, even continue
living outside of prison after a kidnapping?

The alleged customer support is awful, but it's not Lyft's responsibility to
imprison, it's the judiciary system's. The fact that she's not including the
police's response is fishy. What grounds is she even suing on? My response may
seem callous but hopefully, it encourages people to not get baited into the
emotions of a tragic event and look deeper into why she is choosing to redact
so much information.

~~~
Lazare
> The fact that she's not including the police's response is fishy.

According to another story ([https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/nypd-is-an-old-
boys-club-thats...](https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/nypd-is-an-old-boys-club-
thats-failing-sex-assault-victims-suit/)):

> But when she reported the rape a few days later, officers were at first
> “insensitive” about her trauma, then ignored her during the investigation,
> and finally said her case was “too complex,” according to court papers.

She's now suing the police as well. Which doesn't bring us any closer to
understanding what happened, of course!

(It's interesting to note that in her lawsuit against Lyft, which another
commenter helpfully linked, [https://www.levinsimes.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/09/Levin-...](https://www.levinsimes.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/09/Levin-Simes-Abrams-Alison-Turkos-Lyft-Rape-
Lawsuit.pdf) she seems to describe the police investigation fairly positively,
but claims Lyft was "wholly uncooperative", although with no details of what
cooperation was requested and refused.)

------
axaxs
That poor lady. I hope she really sticks it to Lyft, mainly so companies will
learn that providing non-existent or piss poor customer service is expensive.

~~~
toomuchtodo
I can't fathom the fact that they didn't deplatform the driver after a
customer reports a sexual assault occurred (even if temporarily while
reconciliation with a police report is performed), or _that they still charged
for the ride_.

~~~
axaxs
Right? And I didn't necessarily mean only the complaint stage. I'd consider
hiring a potential sex offender, but worse and more realistically, allowing
him to stay employed after such a complaint, piss poor customer service, not
only to her obviously but every future rider.

~~~
apta
Should any random complaint without evidence be grounds for terminating a
driver's source of income? This allows for easy abuse of the system.

~~~
axaxs
Absolutely not. But they have ways to see easily whether or not she was driven
80 miles out of the way. So, if this is true, either she's telling some
version of the truth, or they allow drivers and/or riders to just do whatever.
If that's the case, it's on them for not having such restrictions in place.
That seems like a day one level safety check.

~~~
apta
It's important information, yes. But it is paramount to have law enforcement
involved which didn't seem to happen until later. That's when they can follow
up with the company to gather evidence about what took place.

------
danso
This is kind of a tangent, but one of Lyft’s explanations [0] is that the
victim’s first (and only, from what they claim they know) complaint to them
was how the trip took 80 min instead of 15, and how it strayed far away from
the requested destination. And that for Lyft apparently wasn’t enough to
elevate the issue (though they did reimburse the extra part of the fare).

The victim’s lawyer argues that, among other things, the excessive trip should
alone have warned Lyft. But I guess that unexpectedly long trips, without
driver error, might happen often enough that Lyft doesn’t automatically flag
them? I can think of one time when I asked the driver to go through the In-N-
Out drivethru on the way home (adding maybe 20 min to my trip). I’m sure a
non-infinitesimal percentage of riders request lengthy detours (to pick up or
drop off a friend).

I was surprised that Lyft quickly gave her the reimbursed fee, but without
doing any extra follow up with her. At that point, neither she nor Lyft knew
that the main issue wasn’t just user error, but an apparent kidnapping and
rape. The victim claims Lyft failed to acknowledge her follow-up complaints. I
know Lyft might get countless customer messages on any given day, but it’s a
surprise to me that a user who reports a large service disparity isn’t (at
least temporarily) elevated in the system. Because the unexpected surcharge
may likely be a symptom of a bigger problem, as it seems obviously to be the
case with he author here.

[0] [https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb57w8/lyft-allegedly-
kep...](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/vb57w8/lyft-allegedly-kept-a-
driver-on-the-platform-who-held-a-passenger-at-gunpoint-while-two-other-men-
raped-her)

~~~
Ayesh
> I was surprised that Lyft quickly gave her the reimbursed fee, but without
> doing any extra follow up with her.

I haven't used Lyft, but from my experience with Uber, most of such support
requests don't get a follow-up. Even if I deliberately ask my driver to take a
scenic route and add an hour extra, if I complain to Uber that the driver took
a longer route, I can get reimbursed without a follow-up.

You can't keep doing this every time, but Uber sometimes just doesn't want to
deal with an investigation and tend to make the driver lose the money. Uber
doesn't lose money in this case, so it's an easy decision.

~~~
brokenmachine
So the driver has no recourse when a malicious actor does that? I'm assuming
the driver pays for the extra time.

That sounds a lot like theft to me.

------
jackos
Has more details here: [https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/alison-
turkos/](https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/alison-turkos/)

------
jwilliams
I saw a Lyft driver clip a car outside my house - I emailed Lyft to let them
know. Provided time, registration, make/model, address.

They replied saying that was insufficient information to identify a driver. So
I left a note for the damaged car and suggested they file a police report.

Lost a lot of respect for Lyft that day.

~~~
ping_pong
To be fair, you're just a witness. The right move was exactly what you did
after, which is to give all the information to the owner of the damaged car.
They can pursue things and you can be their witness. But just randomly calling
Lyft and telling them this... what exactly do you expect them to do?

~~~
edoceo
All those details are insufficient? That's a BS on Lyft. They could try
"thanks, we'll look into it". Instead they were dismissive jerks

~~~
ping_pong
Yes, that's insufficient. I mean, what would Lyft look into? Would they call
up the driver, and then ask if they clipped a car? And what if the driver said
either yes or no? Then what should Lyft do? This is a civil matter between the
driver and the car owner, not the driver and OP.

A police report is real and actionable and something Lyft could follow up on.
That's something that the person whose car got damaged should pursue, and OP
could serve as a witness, which she volunteered to do. That is the proper way
to do things.

~~~
edoceo
Just hold it as a soft flag pending confirmation. How hard is that? It's like
a bug report that needs validation.

------
throwaway33508
I would withhold judgment here without more information. Two different
investigators at the NYPD and the FBI have all investigated and have not (yet)
brought any charges. Given that the identity of the driver is known, this
suggests that none of these investigators found her story credible.

~~~
addielynn
Something seems off here. She is suing Lyft, ok. NO WHERE that I can see, does
she demand that her rapists be prosecuted and be sentenced for their crime.
Her focus is only on suing Lyft. If I was raped, I would be demanding that my
rapists be charged and sent to prison, not only for closure for myself, the
security of knowing they are off the street and I'm not in danger anymore, but
also knowing they won't be able to do this to another woman! Instead it's all
about Lyft not taking her complaint seriously and being insensitive. It
appears she didn't even tell them what happened right away. Am I missing
something?

------
gouggoug
The lawsuit[1] itself gives a lot more details.

This is horrifying to think that Lyft does not even cooperate: "45\.
Throughout the investigation by the NYPD and the FBI, LYFT has been wholly
uncooperative."

[1]: [https://www.levinsimes.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/09/Levin-...](https://www.levinsimes.com/wp-
content/uploads/2019/09/Levin-Simes-Abrams-Alison-Turkos-Lyft-Rape-
Lawsuit.pdf)

~~~
9nGQluzmnq3M
That's the author's allegation, but how would they even know about any
communications between the police and Lyft?

~~~
gouggoug
> That's the author's allegation

That's a fair point.

------
jdkee
It is time we hold ride sharing companies, indeed any company that uses so
called "contractors", liable for the damage or criminal behavior committed on
company time.

Contact a lawyer. Use the legal and criminal justice system to hold them
accountable. Sue for damages. Contact your state or federal representative to
push for laws to do so.

------
LeoPanthera
archive.org mirror, because important stories like this one shouldn't be at
risk of disappearing behind the Medium paywall:

[https://web.archive.org/web/20190918020021/https://medium.co...](https://web.archive.org/web/20190918020021/https://medium.com/@alturkos/why-
im-suing-lyft-6a409e316d1f)

~~~
40four
Thanks. I was intrigued by the story and comments, but have zero interest in
subscribing to medium.

Also, since she chose to make it a 'premium' article that means she will make
money from it right? Makes me have an eyebrow raised.

~~~
40four
What a horrible story. I can't imagine how terrible of an experience thay must
have been.

Just wish I knew more details about the police investigation. Why isn't this
guy in jail? Did it go to trial? If not, why? She knows his car, apparently
his name/ pseudonym, wasn't he questioned?

I get the feeling the police department failed her more than anything. I'm not
sure how much Lyft can even do here. They aren't law enforcement.

------
CriticalCathed
There's a lack of substance in this article. Why is it that this alleged
rapist, kidnapper, and his associates are not in prison? I don't see why Lyft
is responsible for criminal acts performed by their contractors/employees.
Even if they didn't do background checks, which they do, why should they be
responsible?

That said, Lyft insisting she pay for the ride is an incredibly strange twist.
Maybe it's a legal maneuver? They've refunded a ride to me for something as
simple as a dirty car that caused me to need to dry clean my clothing.

edit: From another article, it becomes clear. Lyft didn't know it was an
alleged rape.

>Lyft says that when Alison Turkos originally reported the incident to them,
she didn’t mention the rape and only sent a message to support asking them to
look into the ride. They argue that they basically had no way of knowing she
had been raped. We’ve read the messages she sent.

>We first became aware that this was a safety incident when the Wall Street
Journal published an article on May 8, 2018. We received a subpoena from law
enforcement on May 14, 2018, six months after the ride took place. We complied
with the subpoena and worked with law enforcement for over a year as they
investigated.

Something about this stinks.

~~~
addielynn
Something seems off here. She is suing Lyft, ok. NO WHERE that I can see, does
she demand that her rapists be prosecuted and be sentenced for their crime.
Her focus is only on suing Lyft. If I was raped, I would be demanding that my
rapists be charged and sent to prison, not only for closure for myself, the
security of knowing they are off the street and I'm not in danger anymore, but
also knowing they won't be able to do this to another woman! Instead it's all
about Lyft not taking her complaint seriously and being insensitive. It
appears she didn't even tell them what happened right away. Am I missing
something? (Sorry, I'm new to this forum and I posted this response to someone
else, not sure if it goes to everyone.)

