
What if capitalism is obsolete? - tabtab
It seems increasingly that if you are not an &quot;elite&quot; employee, region, nation, age-range, industry, etc., then you get left behind. Inequality is increasing and appears to be spreading to more factors.<p>Globalism and automation probably have something to do with it. It may just be a blip of history, OR what if this trend grows extreme? Society would be on a hair-trigger to collapse upon the next big recession.
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BjoernKW
> if you are not an "elite" employee, region, nation, age-range, industry,
> etc., then you get left behind

Do you? While it's technically correct that inequality is increasing the
baseline level is increasing, too.

So, while an average person's wealth in comparison to the richest person's
perhaps has decreased by orders of magnitude in recent decades at the same
time globalization and capitalism not only helped with massively reducing
poverty but also with increasing the number of people who - while not exactly
rich - make a decent living.

They might be relatively poorer than their 1970s counterparts when compared
with the richest people of their respective time periods but in absolute
numbers or compared with the economy as a whole they're much better off.

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jstewartmobile
I think a lot of the pathology comes from having rootless multinational
corporations that are largely unaccountable to neither man nor government.

Quigley once wrote that minting corporations with unlimited lifetimes and
unlimited scopes of operation--from a historical perspective--is a completely
new mistake.

The Intercept had this story a while back where Kerr-McGee was caught dumping
creosote into the ground for decades, then the EPA goes and prosecutes the lab
owner who blew the whistle. Kerr-McGee gets a fine. Lab owner who blew the
whistle gets house arrest.

[https://theintercept.com/2016/11/25/did-the-epa-prosecute-
an...](https://theintercept.com/2016/11/25/did-the-epa-prosecute-and-jail-a-
mississippi-lab-owner-because-of-her-activism/)

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fabrice1
Many forget History. Especially since the fall of Berlin's Wall, capitalism
went wild. The threat of communism disappeared. Beware the backlash.
Capitalism is I believe the best way to move forward. We need to develop a
more human capitalism. Profit must be share. Not just with investors,
shareholders. We need to stop "maximization" profits by squeezing wages...lets
aim to reasonable profits

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tabtab
"Communism" and "capitalism" are not mutually exclusive. As I interpret the
terms as usually used today, communism is mostly a political system while
capitalism is an economic system. As China and Singapore show, (mostly)
capitalism and totalitarianism can exist in the same country. Similarly,
"democracy" and "capitalism" can be independent things. But I realize the
terms are not so clear cut: history shuffled things since they were coined.

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fabrice1
Yes today "Communism" and "capitalism" are not mutually exclusive. I was
referring of the general understanding of communisn as an economic and
political system. Indeed I believe-correct me if I'm wrong- China gradually
buried the economic side in the early eighties with Deng Xioping. Capitalism
can be a hard place when you are left behind but is the best system coupled
with democracy and freedom of speech. My idea of human capitalism is to share
profits with those left behind. Imagine if all businesses shared their
profits. Utopic? I don't think so. We just need to push for it. I myself was
homeless, rough sleeping before getting back on track. I now prepare to launch
a start-up with the idea of sharing profits with those left behind. Radically
lifting homeless families out of the streets in India. That what I call human
capitalism

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tabtab
Do you mean voluntarily sharing? The biggest problem I see with that is that
during recessions, the ratio of need to "sharers" goes way up.

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fabrice1
Yes voluntarily sharing (10%) and why not "obligatory sharing" by law
(although I'm not a partisan of it right now)but if this idea of businesses
sharing with those left behind spread it could forced businesses to share by
public pressure. CSR is too often a joke, a token contribution to give the
illusion they care. If the ratio of need to "sharers" goes up maybe the
sharing may increase. But it is a whole new culture that would have to be
nurture. Most of investors, shareholders are let's say a bit selfish. But if
we can convince them it is in their self-interest to learn to share it may
work. History is a constant reminder that when people are too unhappy the
"elite" is in trouble. People need hope they can move up the social ladder.

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crispytx
30 year old millennial here replying from my parent's basement. I think the
future is going to be a lot better than the present, we just need to fix some
stuff.

TODO:

1) We need low cost housing. Mobile home parks with $10,000 RVs for rent @
$200 / month. Here in Texas the lowest cost housing options are $600 - $700 a
month. With radically cheaper housing it will be much easier to survive
working the types of shitty jobs that our economy is currently producing.

2) Large companies need to start raising more capital on the public stock
markets. Economic growth comes from people investing money to produce MORE
goods and services than were previously produced. However, most of our
retirement money does not go towards this purpose. The overwhelming majority
of retirement funds go toward purchasing shares of stock on the secondary
market which does not contribute to producing MORE goods and services at all.

3) We need to quit allowing healthcare companies to fleece our healthcare
system. There's no good reason for the United States to spend twice per capita
what Canada spends for healthcare.

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twobyfour
We're not there yet.

When we reach a level of automation where there aren't enough people to sell
goods and services to because there aren't enough jobs (and where conversely,
there aren't enough jobs to realistically expect a given person to use wages
to pay for necessities like food, housing, and clothing), we'll have reached a
stage where capitalism is no longer viable as a way to generate or distribute
value.

We're on that path, and some of the cracks are beginning to show. But
capitalism isn't obsolete. If anything, it's reaching a crescendo. Whether the
current form is a good thing for the vast majority of the world's population
is open to debate. But that has nothing to do with obsolescence.

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tomohawk
It's better than the alternatives, such as this alternative:

[https://ca.news.yahoo.com/venezuelans-scramble-survive-
merch...](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/venezuelans-scramble-survive-merchants-
demand-dollars-130623023.html)

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tabtab
The Venezuelan mistake was putting all their economic eggs in the oil basket.
That's not a capitalism-vs-socialism issue since capitalists have done similar
(rust belt). Further, there are various mixes of socialism and capitalism that
can be implemented: it doesn't have to be all one or the other.

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tomohawk
Um. No. The mistake was putting a dictator in charge, who then nationalized
everything and tried to create a centrally directed economy.

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kleer001
How do you distribute power with equanimity and keep it that way? I think it's
impossible with any sort of inheritance. And with legions of spoiled idiots
you get an acceleration of entropy, more randomness to distribute said power
from the perfect peaceful normal distribution into a power law. And then you
gotta redistribute it all over again.

Yes, knowing who your child is is holding back the human race from a world of
perfect equality.

I'm not sure I believe that, or even think there's a way to get there from
where we are now. It's truly a bizarre idea. It's just the easiest way I can
see to solve the problem as stated.

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crispytx
That's actually the idea behind the "death tax." It's meant to prevent
dynastic family wealth from accumulating.

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godzillabrennus
It seems clear to many that pure capitalism is just the least terrible of
systems we have used to build societies. Experimenting with new forms of
societies leads to unimaginable death and destruction. Not the kind of thing
that most people want today. Question is, at what point do people feel so left
behind by the system that they call for revolution.

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Top19
John Cabot Lodge used to say “the purpose of the UN isn’t to take you to
heaven, it’s to prevent us all from going to hell”. Feel the same way about
capitalism. I have no idea why it works, many other thing seem like they
should work 10x better, but it never does and millions die.

Capitalism comes in waves too. Usually it’s really good for while, then
declines, and then is reformed into another good period before it declines
again and so on.

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SirLJ
The Capitalism is the corner stone of the Democracy.

So it is up to you to work hard and be the best in your field...

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tobylane
Can you expand on the first line?

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SamReidHughes
Capitalism won't be obsolete until we've cured death and colonized two other
star systems. Then we've got to prepare for the threat of alien conquest.

