
Paris Rolls Out Sidewalk Urinals to Tame "Wild Peeing" - gscott
https://www.npr.org/2018/08/14/638512558/nope-those-arent-mailboxes-paris-rolls-out-sidewalk-urinals
======
cpursley
This would not be a problem if Europe had free toilets like the United States.
I really don't understand why I should have to pay to pee.

~~~
strict9
Where is this in the US? McDonalds? Those don't exist except interstate
highways.

~~~
jstarfish
This shouldn't be downvoted. Restrooms within U.S. urban centers are hard to
find, for patrons only, if they have public restrooms at all. Seattle, NYC,
Atlanta, San Diego, L.A...all the same. There's a reason people urinate behind
dumpsters.

10 years ago on NYE at Times Square, people were literally dropping squat or
pissing in bottles in the middle of a televised street for lack of anywhere
else to do it. I've been desperate enough to have to to it myself.

Somewhere in the suburbs? Sure, just stop at a McDonald's, a public park, a
mall, or any number of places with toilet access. But cities themselves
largely lack them.

~~~
Nasrudith
Time square was also cordoned off during New Years celebrations I believe. Why
they didn't include sufficient portapotties within the perimeter but out of
central show areas is beyond me.

~~~
jstarfish
Even worse, the way they had security set up was that herded everybody into
corrals after frisking them. No re-entry into your pen was permitted.

There were portapotties stationed up and down the strip...outside of the
corrals. If you dared to use them, you were done for the night-- you couldn't
get back into your pen unless you evaded the cops and hopped a fence.

------
tomc1985
Netherlands has public urinals in some places (Dam Square in Amsterdam, for
example), the sky didn't fall or anything. They are a little unsightly but
younger drunken me certainly appreciated their presence.

I wish there was some equivalent to these things suitable for women though, it
isn't fair that we have all the fun :)

~~~
donkeyd
They're all over Amsterdam. There's an app for people who are boating that
shows every urinal next to the canals. It's very convenient!

Edit: There's even ones that come up out of the ground at night!

------
LarryL
I'm french, I live near Paris and very often walk in Paris for various reasons
(shopping, etc)

The BIG problem is that the automated public (and free, which was not the case
before) toilets are NOT numerous enough (400 only according to the article,
what a joke!), you have to _search_ for them, even in the very popular -and
touristic- areas where I usually roam. But the other, and far worse, problem
is that they are SLOOOOOOOOOW!!!! Obviously only one person can use the toilet
at a time, then when they exit, the toilet auto-cleans itself, which takes
FOREVER, and I mean a good couple of minutes, maybe more. Imagine a line of
ten people in front of you (it happens)... You'll have a 30 minutes wait, if
not more!

I won't insist on the fact that after the auto-cleaning the toilets are still
(understandably) wet on the floor and the toilet seat, which is not the most
pleasant thing. But I agree that it's not an easy thing to do. I will also
pass quickly on the fact that sometimes you find used needles (left by drug
addicts) in the hand washing bowl...

In some of the most touristic places (remember that France is the most visited
country in the world, and Paris draws an incredible number of visitors,
especially during the holidays), you can see ONE or TWO toilets, and that's
it, for thousands of people! That's a total joke.

As for those new urinals, who would want to use those? I don't want to pee in
front of everybody, thank you! There are plenty of possible more secluded
spots.

The idea of adding more toilets is one thing, and more efficient (and less
cumbersome) models compared to the current ones would be a VERY welcome idea,
but this solution is in my opinion not well studied. Plus it does not help
women (~50% of the public) who also need to use toilets...

And it would also be good if toilets were available in the subway! That's
where I've seen the most people take "wild pees" (usually again a wall in the
stations), it's the WORST place, it's disgusting.

------
kiddico
Before reading the article my first thought was that there was not adequate
public restrooms, but its mentioned they've already added 400. It would be
interesting to know if the incident rate dropped after adding them, and if so
then maybe they need to add more. I'm not sure how much area the 400 had to
cover, but it might not have been enough.

~~~
rtkwe
400 for a large city like Paris isn't that much and discoverability is an
issue. They're fairly densely packed in some areas [0] I'm guessing near
restaurant/bar heavy areas but fairly sparse out side of that.

[0] [https://www.paris.fr/services-et-infos-
pratiques/environneme...](https://www.paris.fr/services-et-infos-
pratiques/environnement-et-espaces-verts/proprete/les-sanisettes-2396)

------
titanix2
This is a return of the 19 century « vespasiennes » (public pissoirs) that
were removed partly because they were detourned by men for other purposes. By
that time homosexuality was frowned upon. The new version take less space but
also offer less privacy; it’s a weird choice in my opinion.

~~~
blang
Not just 19th century:

[https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/seattles-5-million...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-
news/seattles-5-million-automated-public-toilets-sold-for-12000/)

less privacy as a design choice seems to be very deliberate

------
jwilk
Text-only version:

[https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=638512558](https://text.npr.org/s.php?sId=638512558)

Archived copy (with photo):

[https://archive.is/Ycjrc](https://archive.is/Ycjrc)

------
torstenvl
This is both hilarious and very useful. Parisian culture leans toward
leisurely café sipping, which means there aren't a lot of Starbucks-type
places where one can stop quickly to pee and grab a drink or snack. Current
options are to pay for access to a little cabin-style bathroom (even those
aren't always easy to find), or line up for a place that permits bathroom use
without essentially renting a table for an hour (the line for a bathroom at
McDonald's on the Champs Élysée can stretch out the door)... or pee in an
alley or subway.

I'll be interested to see how this is received by Parisians.

~~~
lainga
Is it for the same reason there are no trash cans in Japan? You're expected to
keep that stuff at home, as home business?

~~~
Nasrudith
I thought that was related to the nerve gas attacks on the subway and deciding
they would rather have litter sweeped up than standing cans which may hide
bombs.

------
hackermailman
[http://uritrottoir.com](http://uritrottoir.com) that marketing of the guy
taking a selfie while using one. We have free robotoilets here but drug
addicts cover the floors in used needles and other piles of trash that clog
the autoclean ergo alleys reeking of urine all summer persist.

~~~
awakeasleep
Places with the needle problems (like SF) should bite the bullet and provide
sharps containers that are maintained by public employees.

It's simply insane to ignore the problem posed by the kilotons of used needles
laying around everywhere, and they're a public health menace, so the
government should take responsibility for the issue.

~~~
_jal
We (San Francisco) do have them. Some people don't like them, and there are
ongoing fights about that. Generally speaking, "the government" here is trying
to "take responsibility" like you ask. It is a certain segment of the
population that you should be taking issue with.

I'm not singling you out, but a personal pet-peeve of mine is this "us vs.
government" thing. You, the reader, are a part of your government. Pretending
like government should be like a restaurant and service you is a category
error that causes lots of unnecessary problems while not solving real ones.
Take responsibility, indeed.)

------
rayiner
Pretty much this:

> "They have been installed on a sexist proposition: men cannot control
> themselves (from the bladder point of view) and so all of society has to
> adapt," Gwendoline Coipeault of the feminist group Femmes Solidaires tells
> the news service. "The public space must be transformed to cause them
> minimum discomfort."

They need to bring back flogging for public urination and littering.

~~~
phyzome
Yes, because beating people will make them suddenly not need to pee. >_>

(Will you also advocate removal of trash cans, and beat people for littering?)

...how about free public toilets, which will solve the actual problem?

~~~
hfdgiutdryg
_...how about free public toilets, which will solve the actual problem?_

I get the impression that you misunderstood the parent. Installing _toilets_
would solve the problem without being sexist. The plan of installing urinals
does seem rather sexist, doesn't it?

I mean, it appears to be saying, "oh well, boys can't hold it" or "women don't
(or can't) drink". Aren't those sexist statements?

It sure sounds to me like it's reinforcing a weird culture of men not doing
any planning and feeling entitled to piss wherever it's convenient for them.

~~~
phyzome
Public urination has several causes: 1) People not caring enough not to; 2)
People can't find a public restroom and they have to pee; 3) People can't
_afford_ to use the available restrooms.

The first of those could possibly be handled with threats and punishment; the
other two would only be minimally affected by that.

Yes, it's sexist to only provide facilities for men—whatever the argument. I
don't disagree! But corporal punishment for urination, as rayiner was
suggesting, _without_ providing free public toilets... that's just cruel.

~~~
hfdgiutdryg
_But corporal punishment for urination, as rayiner was suggesting, without
providing free public toilets... that 's just cruel._

I don't think the problem is caused by vast numbers if underprivileged
homeless people. It sounds like it's caused by irresponsible, indifferent
young men. There doesn't appear to be a widespread problem of women urinating
in the streets.

It's perfectly valid to conclude that the problem is a lack of punishment and
shaming of the unwanted behavior.

~~~
phyzome
So, let's say your new "Whip the Pissers Act" gets signed into law.
Congratulations, there are now public floggings of irresponsible, indifferent
young men, and many of them do change their ways. But there are also public
floggings of the homeless. Awesome.

Or does your law somehow codify "indifferent and irresponsible" as a condition
of the crime?

~~~
rayiner
Just like with any other crime, the prosecution or sentencing authority could
take account of mitigating circumstances. We don’t get rid of laws against
speeding because sometimes people are rushing to the hospital.

~~~
phyzome
I don't trust prosecutorial discretion to protect me from overly broad laws.

------
patrickg_zill
What changed?

(Twitter tells me that it is because of immigration from the 3rd world.)

~~~
qop
That is correct.

European business culture also contributes in some small part, so given enough
growth it would have eventually been a problem anyways, but it was exacerbated
by importing tens of thousands of primitive terrorists.

~~~
dang
We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our
requests to stop.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

