
It's Time for a Four-Day Workweek - gkuan
http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/08/its-time-for-a-four-day-workweek/378911/
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patrickpkt
I did a year of a 4 day/9 hour schedule (our normal work week is 35 hours). I
would do Monday-Thursday one week, followed by a Tuesday-Friday, to make
alternate weekends 4 days long. For the last year, due to a head injury, I've
worked 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, in 2.5 hour chunks. While my hours are
shorter, I've found it really refreshing to have a 3 hour midday break. Lunch
is never rushed, I have time to watch a tv show or run an errand or two, and I
generally come back to work in the afternoon very refreshed. On top of that,
it's easier to focus in - 2.5 hour blocks don't leave time for distractedness.

I liked the 4/10 schedule, but I don't think it fulfilled my hopes for it. My
intention was to use my off days for my own projects, as I was starting to
burn out and feel uninspired. What I found was that it was difficult to shift
gears for just a day or two, especially after working long hours the previous
several days. For the most part, the off days would just be when I would run
errands. Instead of taking a half day to take the dogs to the vet, I would use
my free day. So, it was nice enough, but hard to fully utilize well.

Of course, I think the real trick is finding a job that lets you have a good
work life balance. My work year, if I were full time, is only ~1500 hours.
That, more than anything, is what I'll be looking for in any future jobs.

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mv
My current schedule is 12 days on 13 hour shifts followed by two days off.
Resident physicians get screwed and only recently were 'limited' to 80 hour
work weeks. I would _love_ even a five day work week.

I have noticed my moral has dropped immensely on this schedule. It is
definitely hard to balance work with social life, exercise, and sleep.

~~~
sjy
Why are working hours in the medical industry so crazy? It doesn't seem to be
in anyone's interest.

~~~
shellum
My brother in law just finished a residency and we asked him the same
question. Apparently more mistakes are made in hand offs between doctors than
from tired doctors.

~~~
barry-cotter
I am too lazy to check since I'm on my phone but I believe in the UK between
less fatigue and fewer handoff errors it's a wash except for surgeons where
there's a clear loss, as in under the new system more patients die.

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cheepin
"some have speculated that the Jews adopted this after their exile in Babylon
in the sixth century B.C."

Citation needed. The Torah would clearly put the 7 day week as one of the
earliest doctrines, far before the Babylonian exile.

~~~
dsr_
Unless you believe that the Torah was handed down intact on Mount Sinai, it
was written between 600 and 400 BCE. Anything before that is, er, hearsay.

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programminggeek
At my job we've been doing 4x10 schedule and it works pretty well for the most
part, but there are downsides. A 3 day weekend is great, but less great if
your spouse/family is not around that extra day. Also, the extra day tends to
get filled up with chores or other stuff. It becomes everyone else's "catch
all" kind of day.

I have noticed that 10 hour days tend to grind on a team and it can make a bad
situation potentially worse than it actually is as people get stressed out or
tired during a compressd time period.

I think a better solution doesn't lie in rearranging the 40 hour week. I think
it lies in a 20 hour week. Work two days, "rest" 5 days. Work becomes the
exception, not the rule.

We absolutely right now have enough productivity at our fingertips that the
average person could work 20 hour weeks and probably get about the same amount
of stuff done, just with less time spent "working" while on twitter, Facebook,
YouTube, etc. throughout the day. There would be less time spent emailing and
frankly, I'm not sure people would notice the difference in output, but they'd
probably notice the difference in their life.

For most people, the problem is pay and it's not because there isn't enough
money to make this work, it's because people attach salaries to the notion of
the 40 hour week and how things traditionally are run. For many businesses, a
20 hour week would be plenty if people accepted this reality and worked around
it.

The fact is, all the gains in productivity from automation and technology for
the most part have gone to the bottom line profits, not to the employees
pocketbooks.

If we are going to start negotiating for better work life balance and working
conditions, don't just shuffle hours around, eliminate the nonessential busy
work that fills the day and work towards a dramatic improvement, not just an
incremental change.

~~~
aye
Yeah, 4x10 sounds awful -- in fact, working 10 hour days in general sounds
awful. I doubt that advocates of a shorter work week have "work the same
number of hours, but in a different configuration."

The problem is that even without enough work to go around, people in the U.S.
believe that we should be working at _minimum_ 40 hours a week. I think it's
going to be really difficult to get people to change that. I can imagine a lot
of people staying late or working at home on the weekends to "catch up" with a
shortened week.

Maybe it would be easier to start a "9-3" campaign than a "Monday-Thursday"
campaign.

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iLoch
I recently moved from a Mon-Fri 9-5 to Tue-Fri 9-5; I've definitely noticed an
improvement in my morale, and possibly an improvement in my productivity,
though that's harder to measure. I don't necessarily think replacing the day
missed with more work each day is a brilliant solution though, as productivity
tends to drop off dramatically over the day anyway. If we want to work less,
it might be best to actually _work less._

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gooble_flop
Weeks were originally based around market day: you'd work your fields for 6
days then go into town on the 7th to trade, socialise, etc. Basing weeks
around a day of rest was a Jewish innovation.

There are examples of places using 8 or 10 day weeks (e.g. the Roman Empire,
revolutionary France, the USSR) but everyone keeps returning to a 7 day week.

~~~
collyw
Yes, but we have technology available that wasn't in the days of Roman Empire,
or even the USSR. Politicians keep telling us we have had growth, yet everyone
seems to be working more and more just to make ends meets.

------
sreya
I would gladly move to 10 hour days for four days. Hell I'd do 12 hours for 3
days

~~~
jqm
Just as long as you don't try to do 40 hours in one day... (heck, why not...
we have multi-tasking now....)

But really, I'll believe 4 day work weeks when I see them. They will always
find something wasteful for people to do to eat up the hours even if we do
become on the whole more efficient. Besides, all the insurance people and real
estate people will still hang out chatting for 60+ hours and then tell
everyone they work 60 hours a week. (My girlfriend is a realtor...that's how I
know what they do. She doesn't understand why she can't just call to chat
anytime while I'm at work because... I'm working! And no, I probably can't
"work" 60 hours a week for an extended period of time. But given the choice,
I'd prefer to have to work 60 hours a week rather than have to chat 60 hours a
week.... so I say they deserve their money!)

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jrs235
I think the best 4 day work week would be a rolling day off and probably not
coincide with co workers ( allows someone to be in every business day). First
week you get Monday off, second week Tuesday off, etc. if you need a day that
everyone needs to be in perhaps you exclude a day, perhaps Wednesdays, from
the rolling off day.

~~~
jrs235
Your coworker would get first work Tuesday off, second week Thursday off ( if
excluding Wednesdays for all hands in day), etc...

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nazgulnarsil
I think I prefer 5 six hour days.

~~~
andyjdavis
Provided you don't have to physically travel to a work location more days but
shorter does seem to be more productive, for me at least.

I could work a few long days a week but I get a lot more done working a few
hours a day instead. I'll often work 6 or even 7 days a week but those work
days are only 1-4 hours long.

In particular 1-2 hours spent working on saturday or sunday usually results in
a extremely disproportionate increase in overall productivity.

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matell
I am team leader of a software development team and thanks to tolerance of my
boss I have a 4-day work week for past 20 months (Monday - Thursday, 8 working
hours per day on average). The rest of my team (and also rest of the company
employees) is working 5 days.

Compared to 5 work days per week I feel my work is much more focused, better
organized and prioritized. there is no space to spend 1 hour a day reading
hacker news.

The team does not seem to suffer from the fact I am not there at Friday. they
have the option to call me via phone if they get completely blocked in some
issue (such a call occurs maybe once in two months).

I try proactively to avoid being the blocker any time by replacing email
communication by issue tracking and shared intranet boards and documents as
much as possible.

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squozzer
Let's say, as an experiment, we decide to work four days a week. Which day do
we take off? Just a hunch but the top two candidates most likely are Monday
and Friday.

Friday's claims: 1) "TGIF" now has some teeth. 2) Friendly gesture towards our
Muslim countrymen. Hey, we took the rest of Saturday off to help get along
with our Jewish friends. 3) We can still hate Mondays.

Monday's claims: 1) A lot of work for artists churning out anti-Tuesday work
that oddly resembles the old anti-Monday work.

Aw, screw that - I have a better idea. 365 divided by 7 = 52.14whatever but
365 divided by 5 = 73. So if the 4 day workweek seems unworkable, let's
instead eliminate Saturday and Sunday. MWahHahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

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axilmar
We don't have two days of rest.

On Saturday we need to go shopping for the rest of the week in the morning, in
the afternoon we must prepare the family for the night out, and in the evening
we must take care of the family as they are out.

On Sunday we have to clean the house, doing all the cleaning tasks we couldn't
do on the previous days, and watch the ball games with the relatives in the
evening.

~~~
collyw
This.

I struggle without kids to get myself organised. Trying to do a side project
in my spare time (what spare time?). Its difficult.

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frogpelt
What if we just stopped caring about weeks and employers required 20 days of
work per month?

If you wanted an extra long vacation, you could work 40 days in a row and take
20 days off.

This, in addition, to the 13-month, 28-day calendar would be interesting time
innovations to me.

I also find 100-second minutes and 10-hour days intriguing. But we would have
to redefine the second.

~~~
kasey_junk
This is highly dependent on jobs that don't require "coverage". Lots of jobs
do not fit into that category but could still benefit from a reduced work
week.

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paupino_masano
I thought this was an interesting comment buried down below: about Utah
adopting a 4/10hr work schedule to cut operating costs during the recession.

[http://le.utah.gov/audit/10_10arpt.pdf](http://le.utah.gov/audit/10_10arpt.pdf)

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mchusma
The evidence here is pretty scant, and some of that is for good reason.
Different jobs/tasks are more prone to benefit from reduced workweeks, others
are not. Different individuals work at different paces.

------
rabino
Some tech companies here (in Argentina) are implementing implementing 9-2 or 3
on fridays. It's a nice touch.

------
svec
<shameless plug for working at iRobot>

It's not quite all the way to a 4-day workweek, but we've got something close
at iRobot:

At iRobot we have "summer hours" during (surprise!) the summer. Fridays are
half days as long as you get in your 40 hours by noon on Friday, which many
people do. I love it!

Want to work here (Boston, MA or Pasadena, CA)? Check out our available jobs
(we're hiring software engineers!!!)
([http://www.irobot.com/us/Company/Careers.aspx](http://www.irobot.com/us/Company/Careers.aspx))
and then email me: csvec@irobot.com

</shameless plug>

~~~
wcummings
>Fridays are half days as long as you get in your 40 hours by noon on Friday

You keep track of hours? Aren't you salaried professionals? Who cares how long
you work if you get your work done.

~~~
collyw
I do. If my work refuses to pay me more than for 40 hours, why should I work
more? I already have enough work for 3 people.

~~~
wcummings
Because you're not hourly. You're not paid to work for 40 hours, you're paid
to fulfill certain obligations and be held accountable for them. That means
sometimes you might have to work more than 40 hours, and sometimes you might
work less.

This is not unique to software, you might have to wake up and fix something in
the middle of the night the same way a doctor might have to take a call w/ a
patient on a weekend when they're on-call. It's part of the job.

~~~
collyw
Sue if they want that sort of commitment, they can pay me for it. At the
moment they are getting a good deal with the crappy salary I am getting.

