
Another neo-Nazi site, Stormfront, is shut down - featherverse
https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/28/another-neo-nazi-site-stormfront-is-shut-down/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29
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featherverse
I am no fan of stormfront.org or any other racist organization, but this is
not acceptable.

When a person registers a domain name, they become the owners of that domain
name. It does not belong to the registrar they hired to procure it, and they
are not "leasing" the name from the registrar. A lease would suggest that the
registrar owned the domain name prior to registration, which is not the case.
And if you extrapolate, it suggests that some entity owns all unclaimed domain
names de-facto, which is also not the case.

When you purchase a domain name, that does not award the registrar the status
of "Actual Owner" of that domain. They are providing a technical service,
nothing more.

ICANN should probably get involved and punish Network Solutions for this
action.

Network Solutions might be within their rights to choose to no longer 'host'
the domain name themselves, but in that case they must be obligated to arrange
for a transfer to a different registrar. What they are not allowed to do is
simply steal the domain name from it's actual owner because they disagree with
the content of the owner's website, thus preventing a transfer.

It is important that we do not allow corporations to steal control or property
from the open internet by using these politically charged circumstances as
their theater of operation.

~~~
steanne
if they became the owners, they wouldn't have to re-up every period of time.

~~~
jakelazaroff
This is a good point, but I think you could still make the case that you own
it. Is the yearly registration fee analagous to a subscription, or to property
taxes?

I don't have the answer here; curious to find out what everyone thinks.

~~~
heartbreak
It’s not a matter of what people think it’s a matter of law. When you register
a domain name with NetworkSolutions, you do not own that domain name.

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icebraining
What law are you referring to?

~~~
heartbreak
Contract law.

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userbinator
I've always considered extremists as "canaries" \--- you may not agree with
any of their views, but their existence serves as a "buffer" of sorts, to show
where the current boundaries are. Thus, when they disappear, what is next
considered extremist will gradually edge closer to normalcy.

In denouncing racism and other forms of extremism, we have to be careful not
to turn society into a heavily normalised monoculture that, ironically, many
of these extremist groups are themselves proponents of.

~~~
Frondo
Sorry, but this is nonsense.

Eliminating racism doesn't turn society into a monoculture--it permits lots of
different cultures to coexist without threat of violence.

The world would be better off in every way without racism (except for those
who directly benefit from racism--but fuck those guys.)

~~~
Buge
Yes, absolutely we should try to eliminate racism and society would be better
off in every way. But there are many methods to eliminate racism. Do we want
to persecute them and turn them into martyrs? Or do we want to educate them
and change their minds?

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gok
Sounds about right. Registrars have been taking down jihadist forums for a
very long time merely for discussing violence; white nationalists must have
realized they were living on borrowed time.

The article makes it sound like the Southern Poverty Law Center's findings
were key in Network Solutions' decision. I wonder if the same will apply to
other groups the SPLC tracks as hate groups. The Nation of Islam's domain
remains with Network Solutions.

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olliej
Ugh, I don’t have a problem with saying that you no longer want to broadcast
details, but I don’t think you should get to park.

I say this with a wife that they actively advocate murdering (it’s weird that
everyone focuses just on the white supremacy and not the literal “we must kill
the Jews” horror).

So as much as I hate them and all those people that wish that the USA (and
England, etc) lost ww2 I still don’t think you get to take over their domain.

~~~
aiyodev
That's an important observation. If people were free to read their website, it
wouldn't be easy to forget how repugnant they are. People are starting to
forget the past because it's being censored. And when we forget the past, we
repeat it.

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heartbreak
Stormfront helped organize and promote an event in Charlottesville, Virginia
that saw a man they radicalized use his car as a weapon injuring 35 people and
killing Heather Heyer. Let’s play the video of that, juxtaposed with their
editor’s comments supporting it, on loop at their newly parked domain.

That accomplishes the goal of demonstrating how repugnant their ideas are
without a company having to give them a platform to radicalize more people.

~~~
patrickg_zill
Fields, the driver, is Jewish I thought?

Where are you going to stop... will you turn off all the Berkeley Antifa
domains also (whatever they are), since they directly radicalized Eric Clanton
and his 7 assaults with a deadly weapon in 1 day, four of which he is
currently charged with?

Or is 4 counts of assault with a deadly weapon not enough, and the bar should
be set at say, 10?

Or is only murder, justification? What if Fields pleads to criminal negligence
causing death, a lesser charge - will you give stormfront back their domain?

~~~
Buge
Is there any evidence that he is Jewish?

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to_bpr
I've no interest in, or support for, Stormfront, its members or its message
but I absolutely do not support this and other recent actions from members of
our industry.

The constant censorship and de-platforming is one thing, the support from
otherwise intelligent and rational people (such as those on HN) for these
actions is another, and vastly more worrying, thing entirely.

It's unfortunate to see society rapidly devolving to a far more basic,
ignorance driven tribal culture driven by identity politics.

Time to go down to the Winchester, have a pint and wait for this all to blow
over from a safe distance.

~~~
0x8BADF00D
[https://i.stack.imgur.com/5MaQm.png](https://i.stack.imgur.com/5MaQm.png)

Web 2.0 will become a stale walled garden with increasingly throttled traffic.
OTOH, Web 3.0 will flourish.

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0x8BADF00D
Mixed feelings about this.

It sets a bad precedent IMO, but the positive aspect is Web 2.0 will soon be
dead.

Bring on Web 3.0, a decentralized, censorship-resistant platform.

~~~
forapurpose
It would be tragic if, as the rest of society has ignored the issue for years,
privacy tech gets its next real foothold with hate groups.

It would be far more tragic if the general public started associating privacy
tech with hate groups, if using Tor became akin to wearing a pointed white
hood.

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jstanley
I'm not sure why this article has been flagged. I hope it's not an attempt to
censor information about censorship.

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featherverse
I question the reasoning for changing the 'title' of this submission. The
article title which is what it was altered to match, is vague. The actual meat
of the story is the action that Network Solutions took. The heading now is
unclear, who shut it down? Was it the host? The registrar?

How does changing the title from a detailed summary to something vague and
politically charged benefit the HN community or the dissemination of
worthwhile information.

The original title was, approximately, "Network Solutions disables and parks
the stormfront.org domain".

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DINKDINK
The problems in these people's lives, that caused them to turn to hate and
aggression, will not be solved attempting to excommunicate them. In fact, I
suspect it will exacerbate them.

~~~
markdown
I disagree. Having a place to go where likeminded people encourage you to do
bad shit isn't a good thing. Stormfront was an echo-chamber of hate that
normalised their members evil thoughts and actions.

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flukus
If you think it's an echo chamber now then wait until they have their own
video streaming sites, twitter clones, etc.

Then wait for people who are conservatives, alt-righters, or anyone else
that's no longer PC enough to start sharing these spaces because they've been
chased off mainstream sites. It's the best recruitment tool stormfront could
hope for.

~~~
markdown
I'm not sure what your point is. Stormfront was their home base.

> Then wait for people who are conservatives, alt-righters, or anyone else
> that's no longer PC enough to start sharing these spaces because they've
> been chased off mainstream sites.

That's what just happened. They were chased off all mainstream sites and could
only spew their hatred on SF. Then that got taken away from them.

~~~
pandaman
Stormfront was somebody's home base but not everyone's or even significant
fraction of so-called "alt-right". In terms you hopefully understand it is as
same as saying slashdot is the home base of "computer geeks".

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utternerd
If this stands as-is, it could set a precedent enabling registrars to hijack
domains, which is frightening.

Netsol absolutely has the right to no longer provide them DNS and/or
registration, but they cannot simply place the domain on hold indefinitely due
to their own capriciousness.

How is it acceptable to let a corporation arbitrarily decide, after taking
your money, that they no longer wish to provide you with that service AND
block your ability to use what you paid for?

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LyndsySimon
Are there any existing registrars out there that have a policy of non-
intervention on the basis of legal content?

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defkev
Using the moral high ground to justify intellectual censorship...

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codezero
I lost a domain I owned for 17 years because I was unemployed when renewal
came up and missed the email.

My sympathies for storefront are not strong. Domains are no more concrete than
a street address you don't own it. The sooner you realize this the better. If
you have a better system, present it.

Registrars could give a fuck about you. You are a monetary item. If you don't
produce they will find a way to make your domain produce.

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lsmarigo
This is encouraging and a step in the right direction.

We've let the internet become the a terrifying hate indoctrination tool and
this is just the tip of the iceberg. It took a person driving through a crowd
of protesters to wake people up. Racist thoughts are common as a function of
biology, in regular society we have checks against it growing to insidious
levels. Online it's been open season for the hate groups to take advantage of
modern marketing tactics to recruit and spread hate with alarming efficiency
leading to violence.

