
Stop trying to kill the headphone jack - kasabali
https://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2017/08/31/stop-trying-to-kill-the-headphone-jack/
======
crusso
Reasons I hate removal of the headphone jack on the iPhone:

    
    
      1. Bluetooth headphones require extra charging.  I'm always looking around for somewhere to plug in my phone AND
      my bluetooth headphones.  And no, I don't want to buy Apple's easily-losable ear bud things.  Since the batteries
      may die on my bluetooth headphones, I always still have to carry around the original headphones that came with my
      iPhone, leading to extra cord/dongle #1.
      2. Bluetooth headphones require a charging cord that isn't the same as the one on my iPhone.  Extra cord/dongle #2 to 
      take with me everywhere for the old-style 8mm adapter.
      3. My traveling Bose noise-canceling wired headphones require the carrying of extra cord/dongle #3 to take with me 
      everywhere.
      4. Bluetooth headphones don't interface in situations like that healthclub exercise bike I want to plug into.  Neither 
      do the standard iPhone headphones that come with the iPhone 7.  So I need to carry extra cord/dongle #1 with me 
      everywhere, the old style 8mm ones off a previous phone.
      5. Bluetooth headphone batteries eventually stop working.  I was making due with going mostly wireless for about 2 
      months and then the headphones I bought stopped working.  Judging from Amazon reviews, people don't get a lot of life 
      out of these little rechargeable devices - whereas normally the wired headphones I get with an iPhone last me 
      for the life of the phone.
      6. On the iPhone 7, at least, the headphones go into the combination charging/headphone jack.  That means that I need 
      extra cord/dongle #4 with me because of items #1 and #3 above, if I want to charge my phone and use headphones at
      the same time.
    

So that's 4 extra cords/dongles on top of the iphone charging cord and the
need to have my Bose traveling headsets.

It's a shit show.

[edit: tried to make formatting less hideous and to make a couple of items
clearer... and because I miscounted]

~~~
robmcm
Reasons I hate wired headphones:

1\. I have to carry around a mass of wire that it always getting tangled with
its self and other items in bags and pockets.

2\. I have to fiddle around to plug a port into my phone, that often scratches
the surrounding material.

3\. I have a port that gets full of lint and I have to pick it out.

4\. The headphone cord gets caught on things and rips the headphones out of my
ears.

5\. When ever I knock the cable it amplifies the noise into my ears (isolating
earbuds).

6\. The little remote dongle gets caught on my collar or buttons and rips the
headphones out of my ears.

7\. When I jog I get a cable bounding up and down, often tugging on my ears.

8\. If I just want to use one bud, I have to have the other dangling around.

9\. If I want to switch between devices I have to manually plug in and out,
often scrabbling around on the floor for a desktop computer.

10\. Cable connections ware, and can result in audio only coming out of one
ear.

I have a set of wireless headphones that use the same cable to charge as my
phone. I charge my phone once a day when I sleep, and my headphones about once
a week. If I want to use wired headphone I have them permanently plugged into
a free dongle that came with my phone, but I haven't in months... they are in
my bag... tangling stuff...

[Edit, as above, formatting etc]

~~~
tarboreus
You understand that having a jack doesn't mean you can't use wireless, right?
Glad you like wireless, but (obviously), not everyone feels the way you do.

~~~
robmcm
I know, I was just adding balance.

People loved and still miss Micro SD slots on phones too.

------
damnfine
Call me oldschool, but my headphones that work with everything else, should
work fine for my phone. I will continue to vote with my dollar and only buy
phones with 1. Removable battery 2. Removable storage 3. Headphone plug.

Don't think me some luddite, I love my wireless buds when working out, or
riding a bike. But when I want it to 'just work', no drivers, no batteries, no
formats, just a plug and good sound. It seems steange to me, as apple used to
be known for its quality D/A converters, and they are cheaper than ever now.

~~~
userbinator
Replacing simple, robust and inexpensive technology with complex, fragile, and
relatively more expensive electronics seems to be the "modern" trend these
days, and I am also opposed to it.

Wireless certainly has its advantages but I am unconvinced that it should be
the _only_ way to connect headphones or other things "going forward".

But given the economic incentives, it's not surprising why things are moving
in that direction.

------
markhagan
I am happy that someone is writing about this.

Essential broke my heart when they launched without the headphone jack (okay,
not really, but you they did eliminate me as a customer for this version --
maybe I won't need the headphone jack for their next release).

Survey from Nov last year: [https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/life-without-the-
headphone-ja...](https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/01/life-without-the-headphone-
jack/)

It is a survey...so who knows how real it is, but 55.86% were negatively
impacted Apple removing the headphone jack. While Apple customers don't have a
choice, Android users do and we will vote with our wallets.

~~~
stult
Apple customers have a choice. Which is why I'm typing this from my brand new
Galaxy instead of an iPhone.

~~~
chrischen
I could suffer android, or like you know I could plug in the 3 cm converter
onto my 20cm cord when my can’t find my airpods.

~~~
damnfine
Dongles are never the best answer. Either bulky and akward, or tiny and
lost/broken. It would take a bit less than 3cm to just add the extra chip and
jack.

~~~
chrischen
You have a massive wire attached to your headphones already...

------
rm999
>It isn’t a forward-thinking move like Apple’s decision to kill off the floppy
disk, because no one’s playing along.

In an article about how too many phone manufacturers are removing the
headphone jack? A lot of people are playing along. The market for bluetooth
headphones has blown up, covering a range of prices and form factors - it's
absurd and perhaps wishful thinking to say this isn't a real trend. I also
don't believe there are no benefits to the manufacturing process.

I predict this article will feel very outdated in a couple years. I was very
skeptical of the removal of the headphone jack, but six months ago I tried out
a bluetooth headset, and I would never go back. It's easier and doesn't snag,
and is easier to put away. This isn't to say everyone should get rid of the
headphone jack, but I don't see why manufacturers shouldn't be able to.

~~~
scriptkiddy
Here's my problem with bluetooth:

Sound quality.

Bluetooth is not able to offer the fidelity of a standard 3.5mm jack. Until it
is capable of doing so, I will not even consider using bluetooth headphones.

Plus, industry standard high-fidelity and studio quality headphones don't come
with bluetooth due to the fidelity issue. I already have a several hundred
dollar pair of awesome headphones. Why would I purchase a phone that I can't
connect them to?

Let's call the removal of the headphone jack what it is: a cash grab. The only
reason manufacturers are doing this is to increase profits. By removing the
3.5mm jack companies no longer have to pay for the part or attaching the part
to the board. On top of this, manufacturers can now charge for special dongles
and proprietary wireless headphones.

~~~
striking
Some devices can send AAC at up to 96KHz over Bluetooth, and its compression
is considered transparent by the ITU at 128kbit/s.

I think the manufacturers didn't want to add cruft to their headphones, as the
batteries and decoding circuitry would probably begin to crowd out the actual
sound reproduction hardware.

Of all the complaints I've heard (and agreed with) on removing the 3.5mm jack,
inability to send high-fidelity audio over BT is the one I think I disagree
with the most.

(I agree with the rest of your comment, though.)

~~~
bestiesint
I don't know... quality is one of my primary concerns too.

To be clear, I'm not someone who romanticizes audio quality. I'm really about
hard facts. But bluetooth audio quality is a known issue, and although there
have been attempts to address it, it seems like nothing is really quite there
yet.

Yes, there are higher-quality audio bluetooth standards, but not everything
works with them, and there's interference, and general glitchiness, etc.
Bluetooth audio quality is one of these things where there's a huge difference
between what's on paper and what reality is.

To be fair, I think there's issues with wireless and wifi audio in general
(not necessarily with quality, but the whole package: quality, reliability,
open standardization, adoption, etc.). I also think bluetooth audio is fine
for some basic level of audio quality.

But bluetooth audio as a _general standard_ is just not up to snuff. It's
certainly not comparable to other AV jack/port/interface standards, like 3.5mm
jacks or HDMI or whatever.

I definitely do not consider myself an audiophile, but I can only listen
through bluetooth audio for so long before it drives me crazy. The closest
thing I can think of is mono AM radio or something.

This was a random page about bluetooth audio--I just picked it because it was
the near the top of a Google search. It sums up the situation with bluetooth
well, though, and being random from my perspective kinda underscores it's not
a niche perspective:

[https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-know-about-
bluetooth-313459...](https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-know-about-
bluetooth-3134591)

Personally, I'm pissed about getting rid of headphone jacks, and for the
general trend of manufacturers to think eliminating things in the name of
minimalism is a good idea. It's ok to a point, but 3.5 mm elimination is past
that point IMHO.

I fully suspect someday 3.5mm jacks will be outdated, but we're not there yet.

~~~
striking
"Interference" and "glitchiness" are kind of hand-wavy, and so is the "known
issue" of BT audio quality. If you could link some "hard facts" about those,
I'd love to read on.

Yes, you can experience wireless issues with poorly designed devices. But I
know people that use BT audio as their primary ways to listen to music, and
I'm personally building such a device for my car. I can send audio to it from
further than I am willing to test, and I haven't yet had my audio interrupted.

As far as I can tell, as long as you're making sure you're using the highest
quality standard possible, you'll receive a decent experience.

Where the experience breaks down, as I mentioned earlier, is the lack of high-
fidelity sound reproduction options due to the size of the decoding circuitry
and battery pack. BT audio headphones, though usable, are generally not great.
If you have something externally powered (e.g. my car) it is fine... but that
use case occurs less often.

Perhaps your devices only support the SBC codec, mandatory for inclusion in
the standard. Or perhaps your devices have chosen to communicate over the
hands-free profile instead of A2DP, which is another issue I've had.

I don't claim that 3.5mm jacks will be outdated, and I certainly don't think
so either. I just think that BT audio is "good enough" _strictly in terms of
fidelity_ , and that _other factors_ confound its inclusion in high-fidelity
headphones.

~~~
bestiesint
Fair enough in some respects, but the facts you're looking for are really
about product quality ratings, which gets into a quagmire.

My point isn't that decent quality audio with BT isn't possible, it's that I
don't think BT standards are at the same point as 3.5mm. As you yourself said,
if you're saying that BT is fine "as long as you're making sure you're using
the highest quality standard possible" then there's a problem.

It sounds like you've run into some of the same issues ("choosing to
communicate over the hands-free profile"); I think my broader point is that
with BT, it seems like there's a lot of those sorts of things.

Something like car audio or home stereo, with a nice, well-configured set up,
is fine, but for a lot of things it doesn't have the same plug and play kind
of simplicity of 3.5 mm.

Maybe we agree more than we disagree, although come to different opinions
about jacks in phones. To me, BT is a promising thing that's not quite
foolproof enough to compare to 3.5mm.

In general I feel like mobile device design has this tail-wagging-the-dog
problem the last few years.

------
princekolt
Apple's AirPods, in their tiny package, are capable of 5h of battery life. The
case recharges the buds about 5 times, giving you almost 24h or battery. If
headphone makers can't bundle at least a comparable battery life in their
extremely larger package, that's not bluetooth's fault.

~~~
gargravarr
AirPods are impressive in that sense, but they have the disadvantage that
their integrated batteries are un-replaceable. iFixit recently dismantled
them... no, that's too kind a word... they destroyed the earbuds trying to
figure out their design, and concluded that it's totally impossible to replace
the batteries, which are glued in place within a plastic housing that is also
glued together. When your AirPod batteries no longer hold charge, you'll end
up buying a new pair, and there is no option to switch to a cabled connection.

You get what you pay Apple prices for.

------
fhood
>We’ve tested a wide range of phones over the past year, and found that a
number of premium handsets like the the iPhone 7, the Essential Phone and
Xiaomi’s Mi 6 have nixed the jack.

I giggled a little at the idea that testing was required to find out that the
iphone 7 had ditched the headphone jack.

~~~
majewsky
I take this phrase as meaning something like this: "Since we're in the
business of testing phones, we see a lot of different phones, and we noticed
that more and more have nixed the jack."

------
calvinbhai
I didn't hate my iPhone 7+ because I could use the regular headphones with the
adapter. It was definitely a pain point though.

But I must say, after I got my airpods, my usage habits have changed. That is
how wireless headphones should be. Heck I have never used even the wired
headphones as often as I use the Airpods.

Seriously, if you don't intend to use Airpods like wireless headphones all the
time, its going to be a pita to use a headphone jackless phone. As of now,
there's no Bluetooth headphones out there that comes close to the amazing UX
of Airpods.

So think about buying that jackless phone based on how you intend to use it.
Airpods will make a huge difference.

~~~
mdekkers
_the amazing UX of Airpods_

Genuinely curious. What is so amazing about it?

~~~
calvinbhai
1) I never liked wireless bt headphones earlier because they'd still tangle
(like the Bose Bluetooth wirelsss which has a wire/strap connecting the two

2) I don't have to think about charging the headphones, with a dinky small usb
chord, which I had to carry with the Bose. The Airpods charging case actually
makes a big difference in the whole UX of Airpods. You use it as a storage
case. But it charges the Airpods. I charge the chase once or twice a week when
I remember to charge it.

3) It feels so comfortable in ears that i tend to forget that I'm wearing the
Airpods. The only other earphones that were as comfy, were the ones from Bose
with the silicone ear tips.

4) seemless pairing and switching between devices (Mac and iPhone) makes it
even more amazing to use. (Certain apps on Mac though have a problem working
well with the BT headsets, so I hate the MBP for that)

~~~
mdekkers
So the amazing UX comes down to a clever charging case, and comfy in-ear
experience? Point 1 is a statement about your other headphones, not the
airpods; Point 4 is ambiguous.

That isn't really enough for me to say "lets ditch wired headphones". Here is
my "Amazing UX" list:

My headphones _always_ work, across an incredibly wide variety of devices.
Phones, Tablets, TV's, stereo systems, mixing consoles in studios. Basically,
if it can reproduce sound, there is a near to 100% chance my headphones will
work with it.

 _never_ have to charge. I literally never have to worry about charging them,
or battery life, or fancy charging cases (that would need to be kept on a
charger) or anything like that.

 _extreme comfort_ \- in-ears don't do it for me, and cause me ear infections.
I used to own a pair of custom-fit etymotic in-ears that would give me the
comfort and quality I wanted, and would fit under my motorcycle helmet, but
after a while ear infections started coming up, and my physician advised me
that in-ears were not for me.

 _superb quality_ \- I enjoy listening to Sennheiser HD-280, HD650 or when
traveling, the HD4.20s, and when the mood takes me, the AKG K701. I'm not an
audiophile or sound quality snob, but once you have heard good quality
playback through a pair of high quality earphones it is really difficult to
listen to something else.

 _never have to worry about using them_ \- I plug them in, put them on my
head. Done - a UX so slick and smooth, I never even have to _think_ about it.

I really don't understand why phonebuilders are getting rid of jacks. I know I
won't be joining the ranks of wireless headphone users.

~~~
calvinbhai
I know quite a few who dont like the new in ear shape of apple headphones (and
they swear by the old round ones). For them, Airpods will be an issue.

But in my case I'm fine with no headphone jack iff there's something like
Airpods with me and I think the lightning adapter is a good compromise. I'm
sure those who love their wired headphones wont agree with me. If number of
phone buyers who don't care about using wired headphones (like me) is >> ṭhose
who care (like you) then headphone jack will die.

------
CreMindES
First of all, LeEco’s president of R&D Liang Jun said that it is more
complicated to include USB 3.1 type C than 3.5mm jack AND USB 2.0. It
certainly frees up space and makes it easier to make the phone water-
resistant, IP68 certified.

Secondly, I personally own a pre-USB-type-C phone and a Sony bluetooth headset
with a 3.5mm jack option. I'm looking at buying a new laptop, with as many USB
type C 3.1 ports, as possible. Why? Because I buy one for about 5 years, and
its the future, and I'm happy that we are converging to a single laptop
charger and data port. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that it hurts to have a
jack as an option, but I do say that it hurts not having an USB type C port.
If I got the latter, but not the first, I don't mind. Anyone can buy an
adapter, the USB 3.1 supports analog audio in and out and has an audio
controll interface ([http://www.anandtech.com/show/10719/usbif-publishes-
audio-ov...](http://www.anandtech.com/show/10719/usbif-publishes-audio-over-
usb-typec-specifications)), so no functionality is lost. Of course, it is a
change, and people tend to take changes quite badly. If someone is afraid of
losing the adapter, just tape it to the headphones, if they are using a 12
dollar one, I'm sure it won't make worse the experience. As for quality, I'm
sure audiophiles will welcome that now they have more power over the DAC. And
yes, it can help a lot.

So stop whining, if you want a phone with a 3.5mm jack, buy one, there is
plenty, and there will be quite a few for many years. Postpone the change, but
keep it in mind when you buy your new pair of headphones.

------
al2o3cr
HN: where commenters gleefully battle with Javascript standards daily, but
find keeping track of a 3cm long adapter that came with their phone literally
impossible.

~~~
1_2__4
HN: where commenters gleefully carry water for companies doing their best to
spin naked profit motive as a customer benefit, most often by mocking the
legitimate complaints of their peers.

------
zeveb
I frankly don't get the obsession with wireless: it's consistently a worse
experience than wired. Wireless networking is slower & less predictable than
wired. Wireless keyboards enable attackers to sniff one's password. Wireless
mice need charging (remarkably, Apple's wireless mouse is _unusable_ whilst
charging — notably poor UX). Wireless headphones cost more, have worse
quality, introduce lag & last a shorter time — and they (at least potentially)
enable an attacker to listen to what one's hearing.

Wireless is convenient, yes. But I'd rather have a living room keyboard with a
24-foot cable than a wireless keyboard from which my neighbour's kid can steal
my passwords. I'd rather have a pair of wired, electric earbuds for a decade
or more than a pair of wireless, electronic earbuds which last a year or two.

Getting rid of the headphone jack isn't courage: it's folly.

~~~
userbinator
_I 'd rather have a pair of wired, electric earbuds for a decade or more than
a pair of wireless, electronic earbuds which last a year or two._

Another advantage: wired earbuds are easy to retrieve if they fall out of your
ear. Depending on when and where they fall out, you might not be able to
retrieve wireless ones.

------
gargravarr
Most BS reason I heard Apple give for ditching the jack was for waterproofing.
Yes, waterproofing is quite desirable in a smartphone, but Samsung managed to
IP44-rate their Galaxy S5 (of which I have one) without dropping the 3.5mm
jack. They didn't even put a cover over it, which they did for the USB3.0
connector.

Any manufacturer who gives this as a reason for ditching this ever-useful
connector, please explain how other companies have managed.

I do prefer the convenience of bluetooth, but I also like that I can use a
cheap 3.5mm cable to connect my phone to the stereo in my car, which does not
benefit from a bluetooth adapter. It also means that when my bluetooth
headphones run flat, I can switch to cabled while they charge.

------
ortusdux
Reminds me of the Apple Plug:

[http://appleplugs.com/](http://appleplugs.com/)

The looping gif at the end is a masterpiece.

~~~
occultist_throw
The other parody this reminds me of is this one. It is NSFW.

[https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/09/17/airpod-
accessory...](https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/09/17/airpod-accessory-
subwoofer/)

------
jmull
I'm fine with it.

For a highly mobile device like a phone a wireless solution like Bluetooth
makes a lot more sense.

Meanwhile, for audiophile scenarios, a powered digital connection offers
better options.

Phones are space constrained so you really have to consider whether a large
single-purpose port is worth it when there are better options avaialable.

Here's another way to put it: if the 3.5mm jack didn't already exist it is
nothing like what you'd propose for an optimal audio interface. The only thing
it has going for it is the historical ecosystem. That's certainly not nothing,
but given it's drawbacks and the availability of better options, it seems
worth the cost to move on.

~~~
userbinator
_Here 's another way to put it: if the 3.5mm jack didn't already exist it is
nothing like what you'd propose for an optimal audio interface._

I think it's close to optimal --- and for a while, the slightly smaller 2.5mm
size was also extremely common in dumbphones and media players.

~~~
jmull
The main problem is the digital to analog conversion has to happen in the
phone. DACs involve trade offs and they aren't all equivalent. With the 3.5mm
jack you get whatever your phone has.

The early conversion to analog has other implications. Distortions in the
signal can more easily affect what you hear than digital, which can do error
correction.

Also, you might want your headphones to do signal processing. That probably
needs to be done digitally, so if your signal is analog you'll have to
digitize, process, then convert back to analog.

And the 3.5mm jack doesn't deliver the power. So if you want to do any
processing or amplification you'll need a battery that you have to charge or
some other power supply.

3.5mm also allows for only very basic controls.

------
mnm1
There's simply no worse technology that I've used in my life than Apple's
Bluetooth and I've tried most things out there. A bt speaker can literally be
touching its bt source and still can't play music without constant skipping.
This is in multiple environments in multiple locations. The same speaker has
no problem playing from other devices. I can't imagine buying an overpriced
iPhone to get such a shitty experience. Apple used to make good technology,
now they just make garbage. Let the ignorant masses use this garbage and be
forced for no good reason to but substandard bt headphones when they have
plenty good wired ones that bt can't even come close to in quality,
reliability, usability, or battery life (infinite). Companies that follow
Apple are making a mistake but idiot consumers don't know any better. I'm sure
there'll be plenty of phone makers keeping the jack for users who actually
understand what they're buying.

~~~
qubitcoder
I've had the opposite experience lately. Using both the MacBook Pro 2016 and
iPhone in combination with the Bose SoundSport, and later the AirPods, has
been a surprisingly seamless experience. The pairing occurs virtually
instantly. I imagine this is a result of devices using the latest Bluetooth
protocols.

The AirPods even pair right away with my linux laptop (Dell XPS 9550), as well
as my linux desktop workstation. I've begun using them with the new Xfinity
cable box, for which Bluetooth can be toggled in the 'Comcast Labs' menu.

In fact, the AirPods have solved every annoyance I've had with previous
Bluetooth earbuds (clunky charging cables, manual power cycling, pairing
speed, battery duration, portability, etc.). They're the first wireless
earbuds that I use every day, easily slipping into my pocket. By contrast, the
Jaybird and Bose equivalents require you to carefully wrap up the earbuds and
cables, squeezing them into a small case.

------
notacoward
As long as there are wired-only devices that people might want to use, having
wireless-only devices as well forces lots of people to have either two
headsets or one with a dongle. Somebody else mentioned treadmills at a health
club. I'll add airline seats. Also, some environments just aren't that
conducive to interference-free wireless listening. Hell, I've had multiple
computers that created their _own_ interference between wifi and Bluetooth.

When Bluetooth is truly universal, and it's more resistant to interference,
and pairing is less of a pain than it is now, then it will be time to get rid
of the jack. Until then, this trend is an annoyance. Maybe it's small in the
grand scheme of life, but it's enough that any such vendors are automatically
on my boycott list.

------
zimpenfish
I use a Bluetooth dongle (Taotronics TT-BA08) with my normal Etymotic
headphones for my iPhone 7. Works fine. The TT has ~20hr battery which is a
week of usage for me.

(Also doubles as a 3.5mm-to-Bluetooth transmitter but I've not used that yet.
I think it also has a microphone for hands-free calling.)

~~~
OtterCoder
My $3 headphones are guaranteed to last as long as the phone I'm using, can be
toggled between my phone and laptop with one touch, have never had driver
issues, are far greener and less power hungry, do not induce noticable EM
interference, have perfectly fine range and fidelity, and can be used as a
defensive garotte if I'm attacked. I'm sticking with jacks.

~~~
arethuza
I finally gave Bluetooth headphones a go recently with a pair that cost about
£30 and I've found that I really like them - I was always finding that cables
got in the way and although audio quality isn't brilliant I mostly listen to
audiobooks where I don't mind it.

I'll probably stick with wireless headphones in future.

~~~
OtterCoder
But are they 10x better, for the price? I listen to music. You mentioned the
quality was poor. I won't compromise quality for cables, and cordless is a bit
of a non-benefit to me.

~~~
dyarosla
You seem to forget you can still have wired headphones connected through the
USB c port. It's just the standard jack that's gone. It's not wireless or jack
as the only options.

Personally I've loathed wired for almost 8years now. I was happy when they
removed the jack, and kept, in my mind, still an alternative if you really
want to stay wired sometimes.

~~~
mixedCase
> You seem to forget you can still have wired headphones connected through the
> USB c port.

I already went through the adapter shit with my Sony Ericsson Walkman
dumbphones 10 years ago. We have _moved on_. I refuse to technologically
regress to that point because Apple wants to milk people with a new fashion
accessory and the other manufacturers want to "look cool" imitating that
idiocy.

------
jolux
I would think a true audiophile wouldn't mind that much about this, because
they would prefer to run their own DAC and amp off the digital signal instead
of using the internal sound card anyways.

~~~
falcolas
Attaching a DAC to a lightning port is always a pain (last time I tried, it
require a lightning to USB host, then USB to DAC), not to mention it's not a
great portable solution.

~~~
jolux
No, it's not a great portable solution, but honestly I thought most
audiophiles looked down at portable music listening anyways. They prefer their
big hifiman headphones and hifi speaker setups, no? I could be wrong.

~~~
falcolas
The second (somewhat ironically my setup, minus the "big" adjective) setup
does not negate the first use case. I simply enjoy listening to high quality
music wherever I happen to be. And I can with good headphones, which pretty
much universally use a 2.5mm jack.

------
SAI_Peregrinus
I wouldn't mind seeing phones with 2 USB-C connectors instead of USB +
headphone jack. If I'm using 3.5mm headphones it takes a dongle anyway, or
there are starting to be cheap USB-C headphones, or if I want high sound
quality I'd be buying an external DAC anyway so having the USB port open would
help. The problem with having only one port on the phone is trying to charge
and use the headphones at the same time, which the vast majority of adapters /
phones don't support.

------
ivraatiems
I have an iPhone SE right now. I was going to upgrade to a Pixel at the next
opportunity, but knowing now that the Pixel 2 has no jack, I won't. I will not
buy a phone that does not have a headphone jack.

Here's the thing: I don't want to listen to music from my phone most of the
time (except in my car, which already has Bluetooth). When I _do_ , though, I
want a high quality experience, so I use the same (relatively nice) headphones
I use with my desktop most of the time. I cannot not justify buying a pair of
expensive Bluetooth headphones just for the less-common case of wanting music
from my phones; Bluetooth monitors are generally worse than non-Bluetooth
counterparts in the same price range.

Now, I could certainly get one of the adapters others have mentioned here -
but I don't want to do that, because I don't want to send the message that I'm
OK with paying for more redundant dongles so that phones can be 4% thinner. I
won't buy any phone that has lacks a jack.

~~~
Eridrus
USB-C will actually be better for audio quality since you can have a DAC in
your headphones, rather than the phone, so I would expect high end phones to
get on this trend first.

I do wonder if Apple will stick to the Lightning standard while the rest of
the industry (and even Apple's laptops) move to USB-C.

~~~
ivraatiems
Even if they do, the device will still likely only have one USB-C port - so I
would only be able to both listen to music and charge wirelessly, and we're
back to square one, unless I get yet another overpriced dongle. It's still a
non-starter. (Though if wireless charging becomes a big thing, maybe that'll
change things.)

~~~
Eridrus
I don't see why Charging cables won't just start coming with an adapter that
lets you plug in headphones. It's either stationary, so the extra bit doesn't
really matter, or you're already carrying the cable + battery, and you
probably don't care about the extra piece too much.

------
Overtonwindow
I just want cheap sound, that costs as cheap as possible to replace when I
lose whatever it is I'm using to listen and talk, and no dongles.

------
0xfeba
I have a headphone jack on my pixel. But I just use BT headphones. I don't
have a problem with it being removed.

~~~
sapphire_tomb
I do - especially with all the BT problems that Oreo has introduced into the
mix. Lots of people reporting that the connectivity between their handset and
their headphones is now dropping out frequently. (Somewhere on google groups
in the pixel support forum, where there's a massive thread on this - can't
access google groups from work, or I'd find the link).

~~~
cannonedhamster
Oh Google BT issues have been going on for far longer than Oreo. BT support on
Android is garbage. Put your phone in your back pocket, lose BT. Stuck paired
with your car? Restart your phone. I've had nothing but bad luck with BT as
far as reliability goes. It works fine for my runs but drops out so easily it
just proves how not ready for primetime it is.

~~~
0xfeba
I had a few issues with Nougat when I first got it. At some point an update
fixed all issues. I just upgraded to Oreo and other than being blinded by the
UI nothing much seems to have changed.

------
jlebrech
to listen to music in future we'll have to get mp3 players again, but that'll
be a good thing (independent battery, storage and a dac), mp3 players might
also be able to double up as battery banks (you can keep it in you pocket at
all times, less need to look at it than a phone)

------
jbigelow76
Apple did away with the headphone jack, Essential too, now the Pixel 2, the
trend will continue. At least in the context of the smart phone there is no
more "trying", it's done, we're really just waiting for the victim to bleed
out at this point.

------
faragon
I'm not buying a phone without headphone jack nor FM radio.

------
egwynn
I'm pretty sure the motivating factor is waterproofing. The more places where
the insides of the phone need to connect to the outside, the harder it is to
protect from water damage.

~~~
jakelarkin
that and encouraging people to spend $160 on bt earphones

~~~
scarface74
You mean by including both headphones with a lightning connector _and_ an
adapter?

------
shmerl
Others should keep it as a feature, and Apple should get lost with their DRMed
audio idea.

~~~
culturestate
> Apple should get lost with their DRMed audio idea

Did I miss something? What DRM are they planning in relation to headphones?

~~~
shmerl
This introduces possibility of DRM, while regular audio jack has none.

See [https://boingboing.net/2016/08/12/how-a-digital-only-
smartph...](https://boingboing.net/2016/08/12/how-a-digital-only-
smartphone.html)

~~~
culturestate
If they wanted to add audio DRM, could they not have done so with a regular
3.5mm jack? Just because the physical interface is a "standard" doesn't mean
they have to send standard data over it.

~~~
damnfine
Because this is a cheaper and easier way of introducing it? Sure his idea is
unlikely, and unfounded, but its not stupid. Putting the quality of experince
to a lower standard (audio conversion and quality), even more in the hands of
3rd party, and eliminating their market position as 'the audiophiles phone'
all together is odd, just to make the phone thinner, when ther camera is
protruding already, and most people seem not to care. Its the kinda tinfoil
hat thats worth donning once in a while. Even if they never pull the trigget,
I don't belive for a minute they have not tabled the idea, and considered its
possibilitu during implementation.

------
junkculture
After buying a number of apple accessories, I've come to the conclusion that
Apple treats them as disposable items.

I've upgraded from the Apple 1 through 3 and then switched to the Fire stick.

Airport Express? Got a number of those AND an old XP machine to configure them
since Apple abandoned support on macOS.

Their routers don't do WDS with other routers.

When the 7 came out without a headphone jack, it was the last straw. I don't
know what I'll buy when my 5s dies, but it's not going to be an iPhone.

