
Ask HN: How's your drinking problem? - onedev
This is inspired by the recent &quot;How&#x27;s your eyesight?&quot; post where a commenter posted sarcastically that a better question would have been &quot;How&#x27;s your drinking problem?&quot;.<p>Now while the title may have been a little hyperbolic, I do think it&#x27;s important for us to discuss the drinking culture we&#x27;re always around.<p>How does drinking fit into your life? How has your body or your mind responded to increases or decreases in the frequency of drinking? Have you tried being aware of any of these things and if so what did you learn?
======
trcollinson
Anecdotal story ahead: I was at a conference where the keynote speaker was
Yukihiro Matsumoto (aka Matz, the creator of the Ruby Programming Language).
At the end of the day there was a open bar and a sort of sit and hack type
event. Nothing particularly structured. Just a "hey I am working on this
thing, come and pair with me if you would like." Matz was working on MRuby at
the time and came in. Of course, being relatively well known in the community
everyone wanted to pair with him. A lot of people noticed he did not have an
alcoholic drink by him while he was hacking away and continually offered or
brought him one trying to get him to join in.

Matz, on top of being a well known coder, is also a relatively well known
Mormon, meaning he doesn't drink. He would just politely decline. But the
people in the room were getting more and more insistent and later rude. Matz
finally excused himself to go back to his hotel room. After he left the room
filled with discussion around how Matz was judgemental, or how Matz was
loosing touch with the Ruby culture. It was sad and disheartening. A lot of us
lost a great opportunity to code with a brilliant person because he wouldn't
bend to social pressures.

I don't drink but I have been in many environments where drinking is
acceptable, encouraged, or even required. It's unfortunate. For me, the
evidence shows that drinking copious amounts of alcohol is unhealthy,
dangerous, and has very little practical value. Additionally, it can separate
us as a community. I hope one day the drinking culture of the tech community
will exit.

------
TTPrograms
It annoys me to no end that alcohol is the primary psychoactive substance in
use by the population. I don't think there's anything inherently immoral about
consuming a drug to feel a certain way - to relax after work, or help cope
with negative feelings. Drugs to achieve these ends are routinely prescribed.

Unfortunately it's often much easier to access alcohol than any of the many
other psychoactive substances, either prescribed or currently illegal. In
comparison, alcohol is both physically and psychologically far less effective
and more dangerous. I do drink myself, but there are many other drugs out
there that I would much prefer that don't have the same accessibility or
culture as drinking does.

I've been substituting kratom for drinking in when the opportunity arises and
I've found it to be terrific improvement - much more relaxing/pleasant with
less cognitive impairment, addictiveness and physical side effects.

Anyway, I guess my point is that I drink, and I think it sucks, but only
because in comparison alternative substances are so much better (ex marijuana
for many people). Of course this assumes moderation, safety etc. etc.

~~~
kleer001
> alcohol is the primary psychoactive substance in use by the population.

No, it's caffeine. In coffee, in soda, and tea.

------
neals
I used to really binge it in the weekends; woke up in strange place on Sunday
mornings etc. My "startup" (more a traditional company actually) was doing
'ok', but I couldn't get it to go to 'awesome'.

2 years ago, I stopped drinking for a week because of some prescription drug.
That week turned into a month, turned into 2 years this month.

I haven't had a single drop of alcohol and I have never felt better. Looking
back at the last 2 years, it seems as if I have gained 2 days of productivity
per week, I've become a little bit (not a lot) better at everything...
sharper, smarter, pro-active etc. Just enough to give the company that extra
boost, it seems. We have recently achieved "awesome" and we're not stopping.

------
aetherson
I drink regularly, but usually in small amounts -- less so since I recently
had my first child. My wife and I often have a glass of wine with dinner
(probably 75% of all nights), and on social occasions -- now rarer -- I'll
drink considerably more and have four to maybe six drinks.

Getting drunk is fun. I'm in my late 30's, and I only very rarely get super
super drunk like I did in my 20's (and I get hit with worse hangovers now if I
do go all-out). But when the situation arises, getting past buzzed is
enjoyable.

------
kstenerud
There's a trick to drinking properly.

Unfortunately, the USA has a culture of binge drinking, which is the absolute
WRONG way to drink. I actually think it's better to be introduced to alcohol
as a child (as I was), in normal social situations rather than "let's get
wasted!" throw-off-all-restraint parties (which are pretty stupid in general).

Anyway, the trick is multipart:

1\. Eat before you drink. Drinking on an empty stomach causes the alcohol to
enter your bloodstream MUCH quicker, which makes it harder to gauge your level
of inebriation as you drink (it throws off the lag time).

2\. Ride the wave. This takes a few tries to get right, but your level of
mental alertness has a bit of a cliff at a certain blood-alcohol level (the
fuzzy feeling). The trick is to learn to recognize when this effect is coming
on and then back off on drinking until your alertness level returns, keeping
in mind that there's a lag time from when you drink to when it actually enters
the blood. This is also a good reason to be careful about what kinds of drinks
you are drinking, and how fast. Nothing sucks more than slamming something
back and then a few minutes later realizing that you can't even stand up. With
practice, you can remain perched on the crest of this wave and be the happy
drunk all night.

3\. Drink lots of water. Drinking it interspersed with your alcohol
consumption is best, but be absolutely SURE to consume a LARGE amount of water
before going to bed, depending on how much you've drunk that night. If I've
consumed more than 3 stiff drinks, I try to consume 1.5L to 2L of water before
going to bed. Even better is coconut water since it replenishes lost
electrolytes. I've only ever had one hangover in my life (the one time I
DIDN'T do this), and it was enough to fix my discipline in this area. Yes, you
wake up a lot to go to the bathroom, but that's better than feeling like shit
the next day.

~~~
dpark
> _the USA has a culture of binge drinking, which is the absolute WRONG way to
> drink_

The implication here is that the rest of the world is different. My experience
disagrees with this. I spent 6 months studying in Germany and did not see a
significant difference vs how people drink in the US. Germans, Italians,
Poles, etc. all binge drank, with the primary difference being what they
consumed most of the time. When I was in London, I saw plenty of Brits binge
drinking as well.

It's commonly claimed that US drinking culture is different from European
drinking culture. I've heard a number of people, mostly Americans complaining
about our drinking culture, make claims like "Germans drink, but they don't
get drunk". We're really not that different in general. Some people drink very
moderately. Some people binge drink. Some people binge drink to the point of
serious danger. Some people are alcoholics.

The biggest difference I see is that American culture is different with
regards to youth drinking. We've made it generally illegal to drink before the
age of 21, so we have a culture of expected abstention until that age. This
means that youth drinking becomes _largely_ binge drinking, because if you're
going to violate the law to consume alcohol, you're probably going to do it to
excess. Contrarily, even if you were interested in moderation, you aren't
going to be moderately drinking often, because it's not worth the risk. So
binge drinking ends up over-represented.

~~~
jazzyk
One factor is the amount consumed, and yes people sometimes drink more than
they should (everywhere in the world)

The other is HOW it is consumed - and here there are significant differences
around the world (not surprisingly).

It is not unusual for many younger people in northern countries (the Nordics,
but also partially in the US/UK), the goal is to get drunk and pass out as
quickly as possible, with minimal social interaction. While in the south it is
more about socializing, dancing, etc.

That said, it is really hard to generalize - there are always exceptions.

------
mullen
Gone. I quit drinking 10 years ago and everything has gotten 10x better. Sober
enough to meet a great women and get married, in better shape, sleep is
better, eating is better, work is better and my finances are better. I am at a
point with not drinking that when I interview with a company, I ask about team
outings and how much alcohol is involved and if it is too much, I pass on the
job. My sobriety is so important to me that I won't work on a team that has a
drinking culture.

Those of you who are on the fence about not drinking, quit drinking and see
how much better you life can get.

------
rbrcurtis
I have probably 3-5 drinks per day throughout the day. We have a keg in the
office and I enjoy having a beer with lunch, and maybe another in the
afternoon. At night I tend to have 2 or 3 drinks. Some evenings more.

Every time I recount this, I feel like it reads like an alcoholic, but I hate
getting drunk, and I don't particularly enjoy getting buzzed, and hangovers
are basically not something I'm willing to deal with so I avoid them at all
costs.

For me, I drink because beer and wine are lovely beverages. I've searched for
other beverages that have the depth of variety and nuance of these, and I just
can't find them. I find tea to be weakly flavored, kambucha is ok but not THAT
interesting... soda is disgusting and bad for you.

------
quotedmycode
I gave it up about 5 years ago. I say that, not to say that "I never drink"
but I don't get drunk. Last night I had maybe 4oz of some wine after dinner,
after not having drank any alcohol for about two months. It's not a regular
part of my life anymore, it's very rare, and I don't drink to get drunk. So I
don't have a problem with it.

What I dislike are the ads for alcohol. Nearly all of them start with the
premise that you can't be cool unless you drink alcohol, or that because you
drink you'll have lots of hot women nearby. Aside from the ads, its 'oh we
have a lawyer show, lets make sure we have scene of them drinking scotch after
a rough case' or a family show 'oh the dad came home lets show him going to
his fridge and grabbing a beer' or a cop show 'he just shot someone, lets do a
bar scene where he gets smashed'.

------
RickS
Quit altogether for 2 months as a diet experiment, with 2 expectations: 1) it
would be socially frictive 2) I would lose some weight. Both were wrong.

1) Quitting had basically no social consequences. The friction of ordering a
non-alcoholic drink at a bar is gone by the third time. Only one person gave
me shit about it, and they were a friend-of-a-friend and easy to disregard.

2) It had almost no weight-loss effect, in the absence of other diet and
exercise improvements. Premise was "does this one thing have a strong effect
on my weight?". Given that my previous intake was moderate (< 8 units/week),
removing alcohol and leaving the rest of my diet intact resulted in < 3 lbs
lost early on, but no ongoing results.

~~~
logicrime
Have you stopped drinking altogether? Did you consider yourself someone with a
'problem' when you did your experiment? Did your findings change the ferocity
with which you drink? Given that it was one of your original expectations of
the experiment, do you think that social friction plays a major role when it
comes to the frequency with which you drink?

I find the idea of that type of experiment fascinating, perhaps you documented
it in more detail....?

~~~
RickS
I did for the 2 months, recently had a few and broke the streak. No kind of
problem at all, although that's where everyone's mind goes when you say you
quit cold turkey.

Findings didn't change that much, but the break itself changed the way I
drink, I think. Previously it was somewhat of a social default to just go out
with some friends over a beer in the absence of other events. Being
conditioned not to do that, and instead stay in and have a quiet night at home
has given some perspective. I felt like I got a slight time gain on the
evenings, but nothing serious.

Friction previously played a role. Especially in my early valley days when I
was an intern, or in college, or as a contractor (negotiation/business things
are hugely greased by alcohol), but now that I'm full time at more quiet
company where drinking isn't embedded in the culture, the social friction
aspect is basically gone. It's a per-social-circle thing for sure.

Unfortunately I did no detailed documentation. The stuff I'd want to measure
would require months of prep/control gathering (eg: how do I use my post-work
time before and during experiment)

Most interesting part of the whole thing was how uninteresting it was. There's
the idea that drinking is socially necessary and horrible for your health. The
idea that it's so meaningless is a little weird.

------
jeswin
I am 34. I never had a serious "drinking problem", but reducing the amount I
was drinking every week has been a very positive experience.

\- I gave up drinking everything except wine (1 or 2 glasses) or an occasional
beer.

\- Drink very slowly. My girlfriend drinks about 2-3x faster than I do.

\- Focus on the food, if you're dining out.

\- Substitute some socializing sessions with late night sports or reading.

\- Learnt to say "No, thanks".

I don't think I wanna completely stop; but I think I've found my optimum level
of merry.

------
thebign
Posting on a throwaway because I like lurking but this topic hits close to
home.

Recently I decided to stop drinking in solidarity with a family member who has
been struggling with alcohol dependency along with mental health issues.
Alcohol withdrawal is particularly brutal due to tremors which can result in
death alongside a plethora of other issue. It's been a very difficult time
because he has refused to seek help and has lashed out against us. I worry
that he is going to end up isolating himself and end up on the streets.

If you or a family member has difficulty with drugs or alcohol remember that
there are many ways to get help and there is more to life than the bottom of
the bottle.

------
talles
If I'm not wrong, Phil Katz it's the most notorious case of programming +
alcoholism:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz#Alcoholism_and_death](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Katz#Alcoholism_and_death)

Bonus: [https://xkcd.com/323](https://xkcd.com/323)

------
mnglkhn2
One immediate question is when and what constitutes a drinking problem? When
is it too much. There are some medical classifications stating that one glass
of wine per day constitutes alcoholism. Is that true, or does it make any
sense?

~~~
quotedmycode
I believe it constitutes a problem when your drinking affects your social,
economic, or work life negatively.

------
koenigdavidmj
I'm still convinced that alcohol just increases the intensity of emotions that
are already there. If I'm in a good mood before drinking, I just laugh at
everything. If I'm depressed before drinking, then I get _really_ depressed
after, so I don't do that. I've never gotten violent whilst drunk, and I'm
convinced that only the people who do are those who are violent when sober
(though maybe with a longer fuse).

Work-wise? We have Beer Friday. Not that many people actually go. Some people
have a bottle of whisky at their desk, but they don't spend all day nursing
it.

------
lnanek2
Never saw anyone with a drinking problem except my mother, honestly. She would
get blind drunk and scream every afternoon.

You do realize one drink a day is supposed to be healthy, right? Even
coworkers who went to the bar ever night rarely did more than a couple, which
had no bad effects and helped form networks.

Maybe your problem is not drinking enough?

~~~
DanBC
> You do realize one drink a day is supposed to be healthy,

That's a widely promoted myth heavily pushed after some shitty research was
published.

------
EssenceOfStupid
I don't drink, primarily due to religious reasons, and it's affected a lot of
my work relationships, especially when working at smaller companies. Earlier
in my career, Friday afternoons were more about retrospecting, process
improvement, and everyone would start with a few beers.

My drinking affected the social vibe of it, and when I didn't drink, majority
of people in the room would call it out. It took a lot of self-control not to
cave to peer-pressure, but after a while, people respected the decision.

But it was awkward, knowing that people are a little buzzed around the close
of the day, and I'm the only sober one. I feel like I've kind of had to stay
away from social events because I don't drink, which is a shame because I'd
love to hang out and discuss software with people, but can't really fit in
socially.

I think the most important thing I'd say to drinkers is that if there's
someone who doesn't drink, don't ostracize them or judge them. There's a lot
of reasons why people won't drink, religious, personal, etc. And for those
non-drinkers, don't go around complaining about the drinking culture, or make
others feel uncomfortable. I learned that when I wasn't drinking, others
thought I was silently judging them which wasn't the case at all. In the end,
it boils down to the principle of not judging others and just having tolerance
for one another.

------
h1bengg
Holy shit. I was going to make a post about this. When do you realise you're
an alcoholic ? For me, it just hit me last week. I'm 25, in the valley, active
social life which invariably includes alcohol. But, for the past year and
half, I've been averaging 25-30 drinks a week. {I try to stay away from beer
after I heard hops can give you manboobs. broscience :)}

But, I also realised, it wasn't affecting my life (denial huh?). It isn't
getting getting in the way of work. If I'm too hungover to work, I just call
in sick. It hasn't changed me as a person. I consciously try not to break any
laws while I'm drunk. (I was surprised how many people have a drink at the bar
and hop in to their car and drive away; logic being, "I've just had one
drink".) It hasn't affected my health... yet. I'm active, weight train
three/four times a week and average 10K steps a day.

I also know I can't do this for long. But, some of the best moments in the
past year have been, sitting on my couch, listening to Sinatra/ Cole Porter,
relishing a cocktail that I made and just reflecting on life. Just observing
the thoughts. There is just something beautiful about that, and I've never
been evoke those emotions/feelings when sober.

------
J_Darnley
Would that be a coffee-drinking culture? I think it is a horrible culture and
only serves to prop up large corporations that solely exist to evade tax and
get money by providing you your daily fix of caffeine, fat, and sugar.

~~~
TTPrograms
It's funny how tolerant and even encouraging I've found people to be around
outright addiction to a substance. If it was anything other then caffeine than
people would be shocked.

I do love my espresso though :)

~~~
J_Darnley
It is a little strange but then people's shock is usually related to how
harmful the substance can be.

My comment was mostly in jest because at the time of posting I don't think
there was one mention of the word alcohol. Plus I thought programmers were
more known for their coffee use rather than alcohol.

I will also add that I have no problem with caffeine, just coffee. Drink tea.
Strong, black tea, with milk.

------
burger_moon
I stopped drinking at the beginning of the year. I wouldn't say I had a
drinking problem in the way it's usually used but it was a problem because I
couldn't drink any amount anymore without feeling like shit in the morning
which meant I spent half the next day doing nothing because of how awful I
felt.

I felt drinking was a problem for two reasons. First being that I wanted to
lose some weight and drinking calories was interfering with this goal, and two
it was slowing down my progress and productivity. Now that I don't drink at
all I have both more free time and I'm more productive because I don't have
hangovers.

This all sounds awfully preachy, it's just refreshing for me to talk about it
because it's something I've never done before. I've never gone this long
without any alcohol since I started drinking as a teenager.

I would say there's definitely some other contributing factors to my
abstinence from alcohol, but this isn't really the time or place to get into
all of that.

~~~
onedev
I too stopped drinking a couple months ago, coupled with consistent exercise,
and healthy eating.

I have literally never felt better than I do right now. It took a month or two
before I saw the effects, but damn were they dramatic. Literally every facet
of my life improved. All depression, anxiety, and ADHD disappeared. I get way
more done and I'm just way _happier_.

I don't intend on going back to my old lifestyle. I don't regret my old
lifestyle either. Good times were had. But the bad effects certainly
outweighed the good.

------
philip1209
I run a tech meetup. We try to be hospitable, and that means providing food,
drinks, and snacks. We provide beer, but I make a conscious effort to make
other options as attractive (we probably go through more coconut water than
beer). I think it's important to be able to have a social event in tech
without alcohol as a centerpiece.

------
robodale
Ha, that was me that asked the snarky "Drinking Problem" question.

Honestly, I feel great if I don't drink. I sleep better, wake up early,
exercise and feel energized and focused in the morning and throughout the day.

If I have a couple drinks at night (couple glasses of wine or 2-3 gin-and-
tonics), I sleep with more restlessness, sometimes sleep late, and feel a
slight difference in the morning (less focus and energy).

If I go bonkers and drink a bottle of red wine or 5+ cocktails...then I
usually wake up later, usually sleep shitty, wake up with a foggy mind and
sensitive stomach. Writing and debugging code in this state is a bitch.

I wear a fitbit that monitors my heart rate and measures restlessness during
the night. I definitely notice increased restlessness AND about 10-15 beats
per minute higher heart rate during the night after even just a few drinks.

So then after a day or two and at night, I think "hmmm a drink sounds nice"...

------
zaphar
My personal philosophy on drinking boils down to the following.

* I enjoy the taste of certain alcoholic drinks.

* I do not enjoy messing too much with my brain chemistry.

Therefore I drink to experience interesting flavors and as a social lubricant.
I do not drink enough to get buzzed nor do I wish to. So far it's working.

------
t3hSpork
A drinking problem is one where drinking contributes to you not fulfilling
your responsibilities. For instance, if your job performance decreases, you
get into some kind of legal trouble, or you don't pay your bills.

I've used this measure to check my drinking habits.

~~~
bshimmin
There's such a thing as a "high-functioning alcoholic", you know:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
functioning_alcoholic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
functioning_alcoholic)

~~~
dpark
What does it mean to be an alcoholic in this case? That Wikipedia page doesn't
give a definition, nor does the linked NIH press release.

The college alcohol study from Harvard lists criteria, but they are all
generally things that have clear negative impact. i.e. alcohol-related school
problems, legal, interersonal problems. These are things that fit the
traditional definition of alcoholism, i.e., "your drinking is screwing up your
life". The college alcohol study also makes no mention of "high-functioning
alcoholism" in either the press release or abstract, so I don't see how it's
relevant to the article at all except that someone thought it lended credence
to the claims.

The "high-functioning alcoholic" categorization seems really fishy to me.
Somehow a person is overachieving, has no negative effects from alcohol
consumption, and yet is an alcoholic? On what grounds is that claim made?
Because they drink more than someone else thinks they should?

------
hg9i9
I drink, but I think it's no problem.

I make sure to avoid drinking in any negative context, like after a hard day
of work, to drown out feelings, to be able to relax etc. That just asks to
become an addiction eventually.

I do not see much risk if you drink in a social context, as long as the social
part is not just there to hide some other reasons.

Also, I personally do not think we should single out drinking or other drugs
as a problematic behaviour. I think its always the reasons behind that
behaviour that make it a problem or just a fun activity. Playing video games
or watching TV for hours and hours could either be something you do for fun
and truly enjoy, or as well something you use to avoid having to deal with
your problems.

------
51Cards
Lifetime non-drinker here which I guess makes me even more aware of it at
times. Many things are discussed "over drinks" and after a lifetime of
ordering a "Diet Coke on the Rocks" I still get odd looks.

~~~
sp332
I once ordered a virgin rum & coke. Got a laugh from the bartender :)

~~~
51Cards
Great! Have to remember that one :)

------
hyperion2010
As a gradstudent my program provides absurdly large amounts of alcohol. My
first year we were provided with essentially unlimited access to free
beer/wine once a week. Fortunately they seem to have gotten things back under
control. My old lab also had 2 cases of beer in the fridge at all times
(European PI) so that didn't help. In my experience if you want to reduce the
amount of drinking you have to reduce the amount of alcohol that is easily
available. Self medication in high and even medium stress environments is
almost going to be a given.

------
murbard2
As a supertaster, I never liked the taste of alcohol, but I can tolerate it in
heavily sweetened cocktails. I do drink under very rare circumstances, either
when I'm looking for the intoxicating effect, or when the situation _strongly_
call for some amount of conformism (being asked to share a drink with someone
who lost a relative, to share a toast at a wedding, etc). I average about two
or three drinks a year.

Overall, I have a strong disdain for drinking culture. There is some sort of
pride associated with heavy drinking, especially among younger folks, even
though there is nothing to be particularly proud of. I think most heavy social
drinking is done by weak willed conformists who are looking to fit-in rather
than cultivate their own individuality through self-actualization.

As far as the effects go, ethanol is a dumb drug. It can be useful in some
circumstances against social anxiety - something I wish I had known earlier in
my life - but the level of intoxication conducive to perfect social fluidity
is a small peak that is hard to shoot for (no, not Balmer's peak).

------
emiranda
I stopped drinking for about a month in order to diet. I was doing Paleo. I
was doing it pretty hardcore, so I avoided drinking all together. I did feel
better, but going out on the weekends was a bit of a bummer since everyone
else was drinking. It's like the old saying goes: It's annoying being the only
drunk person at a party or being the only sober person at a party.

I'm off the diet now, though I've been thinking of starting it up again next
month, and recently started drinking a bit more on the weekend. It helps me
unwind and have a good time time. My girlfriend and I usually bring a flask of
rum to the bars, that way we don't spend a ton of money on drinks (it really
adds up). So we usually try to keep it to 1 drink at the bar per night on the
weekend and then use the rum to keep the buzz going.

------
jvandyke
Drinking serves two purposes for me. 1) It is a social lubricant and 2) it
helps me unwind faster. However, both benefits come with costs and risks like
sleep problems and being too verbose. I try to consider these things before
drinking, but the more I drink at a time the less I care about said costs and
risks. Same as everyone else.

I don't consider drinking a problem any more than I consider eating a problem.
If I eat too much or eat poorly, I feel bad and gain weight which further
complicates things. If I drink too much the same things happen, plus I sleep
worse and can get in trouble if I say or do the wrong things. Is it food
that's the problem or me? Is it drinking that's the problem or me?

I try to not be my own problem.

------
cjf4
It's only a problem when I get completely schway every few week and do
something out of control like burn my friends lake house chairs that have been
in the family for over 100 years.

I want to stop, problem is it's just so much damn fun.

------
1arity
The problem with drinking is the guilt about drinking problems. People are
more addicted to shaming themselves for enjoying something, than they are to
the thing they wish they wouldn't enjoy.

I put all that down to a hangover ( ... ) from our Western culture's Christian
legacy programming. In a climate of pervasive fabricated guilt, people will
fabricate the greater guilt of the Other to make themselves feel that little
bit better. Hence the obsession with amateurs diagnosing the drinking problems
of their peers, to assuage their own unresolved guilt!

Let's drink to that!

------
AnimalMuppet
People drink to unwind. I'm not (usually) wound up.

People drink to lower their inhibitions. My inhibitions aren't what they
should be. (You know how you say stuff you maybe shouldn't after two or three
drinks? That's how I am when sober.)

So I really don't see much need to drink. My "drinking habit" is a Pepsi in
the morning - but only one. Two and I feel shaky (my hands don't actually
shake, but I feel like they are).

------
zw123456
I just can't let this one go by without mention of the "Ballmer Peak"
[http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ballmer+Peak](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ballmer+Peak)
and the requisite xkcd [https://xkcd.com/323/](https://xkcd.com/323/)

I personally prefer a nice espresso myself :)

------
elf_m_sternberg
I had two beers Wednesday. A glass of wine Monday night. The week prior was a
bit like the same. Some weeks it's "none", some weeks it's "more than seven
times in seven days." I don't think that constitutes a problem. I've missed
more dates because I was writing code and forgot the clock (twice in my
lifetime) than I have due to intoxication (zero so far).

------
jacquesm
When did you stop beating your wife? Teetotaller here.

------
divan
Do not drink at all. Literally never tried alcohol at all and never wanted to.

PS. I hope there are more people like me over there :)

~~~
0xffffabcd
Same thing here. Never had a drink primarily due to my religion but even if it
wasn't religious, the idea of losing control over what I might say or do
scares me to no end. This is the reason why I don't drink/get high.

------
rrss1122
I don't drink at all, and some people see that as a drinking problem. I try to
keep the caffeine consumption to a minimum too. Pretty much the only substance
I allow to change my mental state is sugar, and even that I am trying to cut
back on.

------
McUsr
My problem is that I drink too little, sometimes, I guess I could have
"optimized", by taking an evening/night off, and relaxed with a drink. Some
"itchiness" in the morning, can be a good thing too, as I remember from
school.

------
sokoloff
I drank a fair bit when younger (socially/rarely, but > 1/3 of the time when I
did drink it was 5+ drinks).

Now, in my 40s, if I drink more than 1 maybe 2 beers, the next day I feel like
a train hit me, and don't find nearly the same appeal as before.

------
kleer001
You mean my GF? She's cruising right along, hasn't realized it's a problem
just yet. I hopefully won't be there when she hits bottom and realizes that
what killed both of her grandmas and poisoned her mom could possibly hurt her.

~~~
onedev
Have you tried talking to her about it?

~~~
kleer001
Absolutely. The problem is I have no leverage nor has it been "bad enough" as
in causing property damage, puking in a taxi, getting fired, stealing money
from friends, etc...

I say "It's me or the booze."

She says "Ok, don't let the door hit you on the way out."

~~~
onedev
That actually sounds like a horrible relationship. If she really said "Ok,
don't let the door hit you on the way out", I see no reason to be with someone
like that. Life's way way too short for bullshit like that tbh.

~~~
kleer001
No, that's not what she said. It's a bit of hyperbole on my part. And like I
said it's not an overt problem with attendant issues, no binging or black
outs. And it doesn't come up that often.

~~~
onedev
Ah ok that makes sense, I knew I was probably missing some context :)

------
Stronico
Gave it up five years ago - feel much better and my sleep is markedly
improved.

------
shabonkerz
I used to drink socially every weekend or so, and never to the point where I'd
reach a drunken state. Nowadays, I rarely drink, and on those occasions it
tends to be limited to 1 drink.

------
dotcoma
I don't have one, but thank you very much for asking.

~~~
robodale
It's ok, you are among friends. Recognizing you have a problem is the first
step towards recovery... :P

~~~
dotcoma
:)

------
gaelow
Beware of the long post ahead:

Mine is a very common and uninteresting story. It is not even a cautionary
tale, but I'll write it anyway to remind myself of the choices that I made and
why I made them, because I think it will help me and because maybe it will
help somebody else.

I used to drink when I partied with my friends, mostly on weekends and
vacations. I kept it like this for almost 12 years.

5 years ago I started living with my girlfriend and drinking frequently with
her and when we met our relatives; then I started to drink alone from time to
time when my girlfriend was not around; then I started to get drunk every
night because it helped me unwind, numb myself, forget about all my problems,
release stress and fall asleep after 11-12 straight hours in front of the
screen trying to meet deadlines. I had perfectly adjusted the amount of
alcohol that wouldn't get me hung over or impact my performance the next day
at work so I wouldn't get in trouble, and wouldn't drink a drop less nor a
drop more. I even managed to stuck to that amount most weekends in order to
avoid building up tolerance, and because I hated wasting my free time
suffering from hang overs. I went like this for more than a year. Then I broke
up with my 5-year girlfriend after a few months of maintaining a long distance
relationship and realizing our life goals were not compatible any more.

I decided to stop drinking because I knew without her I'd soon find myself
overdoing it (even more). I thought it wasn't going to be an easy choice to
maintain, feeling depressed most of the time and still feeling at the lowest
point of my life so far with not much hope of it getting much better; but,
surprisingly, feeling bad about myself has been very helpful: I got drunk with
about half a bottle of wine 5 times in the last 3 months (I am a little guy),
only 3 of those alone, and that was all the drinking I have done since.

I do not believe in a higher power, self labeling yourself an alcoholic and
get a chronic disease diagnose from anything other than a doctor, a
specialized one, with enough data to produce an informed diagnostic. I don't
think I can talk or think myself out of alcoholism; only action and
persistence can help. I find motivation in all the things I love to do and in
all the people I love and I love spending my time with. I even find motivation
in my dull work because I have plenty of room and opportunity to improve and
get better conditions.

I respect the 12 step program and its effectiveness as a generic solution for
a significant number of people dealing with addiction. It is probably the best
there is right now, but it doesn't work for everyone, not even the majority of
people. I think I have a basic understanding on how addiction works and how it
works differently on different kinds of people. I knew that I was in a very
dangerous track of self destruction and I decided not to let the situation
escalate any more when I was still in control. It took no effort at all, just
the proper motivation and realizing I was only going to find misery and self
hatred at the end of that road. I know I may find myself in the same situation
again, and that I might not be able to get out so easily next time, if there
is one. I do enjoy drinking, and I enjoy drinking alone to take the edge off;
but right now I feel pretty confident about my self-discipline, and there are
enough safe ways to find the comfort and relaxation I need that work for me.
Healthy and non dangerous ways that make me feel better about myself instead
of the opposite. I do believe in moderation and a reasonable amount of self
control, and I am committed to drink even less than what I am drinking now.
Like I wrote, mine is a very common story that I hope will have a common
ending too, but a good one: "And he kept the drinking social and moderated,
and never again used it as a crouch". Or, perhaps: "And he stopped drinking,
and nobody batted an eye".

TL;DR: The drinking is not the problem, is the addiction you need to avoid.
Even if you are not an addict or are in the first stages towards heavy
addiction, drinking is easily replaceable with many things that can improve
your life and how you feel about yourself. Do not procrastinate that decision.
It is not tomorrow. It is not after the next drink, or this one. It is now.
Keeping the drinking social and with moderation or not doing it at all,
combined with a slight effort to find healthier enjoyable activities to occupy
yourself with is a very good thing to do for yourself and to give as a present
to your future self for enduring the consequences of all the mistakes you are
going to keep making.

And that's my story, at least up to this point. I haven't talked to anybody
about it, I know it is a drag to read or hear people talking about boring
stuff like this. But still, it feels good to let it out in the open.

------
throwawaythisis
I started drinking in a student-life context, around the age of 23 (bit late,
I guess). Everyone drank. I joined in, and it was a lot of fun.

Post-college, many of the people I knew just sort of grew out of it. Stopped
getting drunk every weekend, and only drank a beer or two with a meal, or only
with special meals/moments. But because I became an expat/freelancer/traveler,
I kind of maintained a bar-centered, beer-centered life, and naturally ended
up with friends who were the same.

It never occurred to me that this might not be 'normal' for everyone. The
dynamics behind this are fascinating, but not so relevant at this point.
Suffice it to say that most drinkers overestimate how much 'most people'
drink.

All this was not a problem until it suddenly was. At some point I'd started
drinking to relieve stress, or deal with depressive episodes, and one day I
'woke up' and realized that I'd been drinking to the point of 'being drunk'
almost every single day. This was particularly shocking to me because I
studied psychology _and_ always had a fascination with addiction. So I knew
about the dynamics. I was high-functioning, and doing pretty well all in all,
but I didn't feel comfortable knowing that I had a 'dependency'.

It took me a full two years to actually properly get things under control
again. There were four things that I believe were crucial:

1\. I realized that simply thinking I might have a problematic relationship
with alcohol was enough reason to treat it as one, and at the very least
'test' whether I had one. I now believe that if you're not entirely happy with
your drinking habits, then that should be enough reason to try and remove that
habit for a while, since there are no real downsides to sobriety, and there
are definite downsides to drinking regularly. 2\. I started frequenting
/r/stopdrinking subreddit and #stopdrinking chat room. 3\. I found for my
'down-time' drinking periods and drinking social circles: I started meditating
and diving into zen buddhism, I started reading and actively doing things
again that I knew made me happy in the past (without pulling significant
energy and willpower, like programming does[1]), and I took time off from my
drinking friends. Meditation was perhaps one of the most important things, all
in all. 4\. I actively looked into sources of unhappiness and stress, and did
my utmost to cut them out or minimize the negative effects.

[1]: interestingly, while my 'craving' for getting drunk is almost entirely
gone these days, one of the few times that I feel the pull is when get caught
up in a programming project. After spending hours doing that, sometimes
forgetting to eat or take a break, it's like my mind is exhausted beyond a
healthy point. I'm starting to think my active coding life played a big role
in my alcohol dependency issues.

------
logicrime
Every day at work I just try and endure the suffering, and every night at home
I just try and endure the alcohol.

~~~
onedev
Wow I'm so sorry man, I really hope you pull through. Let me know if I can
help in any way.

------
noahlt
At the time of writing this comment, there is just one comment on this thread
complaining about the amount of alcohol in company outings. That comment has
been downvoted and is now marked [dead].

The question isn't about each individual's drinking problem. The question is
about tech culture's drinking problem. And there's the answer: denial.

~~~
lnanek2
And where exactly is the proof that there is some drinking problem in tech?
Just people who refuse to drink anything at all and complaining when one a day
is healthy? I think it's likely more of a religious problem, or anti-social
problem, honestly. If you are too lazy to go drink one with your peers, then
you will suffer less social success and poorer network, but I think you are
being intentionally lazy, so you reap what you sow.

~~~
steven777400
I have no issue with drinking, but the idea that I need to "go out" with my
work peers is annoying. I already spend too much time at work for my liking. I
don't want to add on top of it schmoozing time I'm not getting paid for. I
recognize the reality of social promotion and I know I'm paying some
networking fee for not attending such events, but I still don't want to go.

I resist the idea that not going is "lazy", however. "Lazy" is spending the
work day reading Randall Munroe's "What if?" instead of working on the
outstanding task list (I'll accept guilt on this one). Lazy should not be
considered not attending extracurricular work activities.

------
jbob2000
I dislike how my company involves alcohol in a lot of our outings. I drink
very rarely and it's annoying to have to continuously justify myself to my
colleagues.

