

Biz Stone Explains Why Twitter’s Co-Founders Are Betting On Vegan Meat Startup - shawnc
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1680007/biz-stone-explains-why-twitters-co-founders-are-betting-big-on-a-vegan-meat-startup

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SideburnsOfDoom
> Even the most devout vegans and vegetarians have to admit that today’s meat
> substitutes are no substitute for the real thing. Some of them are tasty,
> but none actually have the same taste and texture of a piece of chicken, a
> burger, or a steak.

So what? Vegetarianism doesn't work that way. I don't walk into the
supermarket thinking "what's the meatiest meat substitute that I can find
today?", I think "lets get some fresh fruit and veg, and yoghurt and cheese".

Also, if you _are_ looking for a meat substitute, have you tried Quorn? (
<http://www.quorn.co.uk/> )

~~~
ceejayoz
> So what? Vegetarianism doesn't work that way.

Yours doesn't, perhaps.

Many folks are vegetarian for ethical reasons, and many of those people still
really liked the taste of meat. Letting them experience the tasty without the
ethical issues seems win-win.

~~~
dllthomas
And some of us meat eaters wouldn't mind healthier alternatives in our meat
dishes if they 1) were in fact likely to be healthier, and 2) still tasted
good.

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dons
It should be possible to dramatically lower the cost of protein produced this
way.

It is just so much more efficient to grow corn, soy and pea protein and then
consume it directly, rather than feeding it to cattle first, to harvest a
fraction of the input protein as meat.

This stuff could win on cost alone.

~~~
planetguy
>This stuff could win on cost alone

For whom? Certainly not for _me_ , I'm quite willing to pay a cost premium for
real meat.

For poor third-world villagers, then? I have my doubts. I mean, so many
cultures in the world attach so much _cultural significance_ to eating meat,
and the less often you get to eat it the more significant it is.

As far as point-missing innovations go, this reminds me of the Fleshlight more
than anything else. You'd think that "feels just like a real vagina, only much
cheaper and less trouble" would be a selling point, but it turns out that
they're significantly less popular than the real thing.

Oh, I'm sure they'll sell some of this stuff, there's a whole freezerful of
gross-looking fake-meat products at my local supermarket. But it's not going
to change the habits of any genuine omnivores.

~~~
excuse-me
Depends what the real meat premium gets to.

Would a real meat eater rather eat a $5 burger made from (well you really
don't want to know what burger meat is made from) or a $5 fake-steak sandwich
that looks and tastes like steak?

The initial market is going be fashionable fake meat for Wholefoods/Trader-
Joes consumers. But assuming this is eventually cheaper than meat, keeps
longer, has less problems with bugs/contamination/spoilage, is quicker easier
to shape into burgers plus lower fat and healthier then fast food chains are
going to offer it.

~~~
planetguy
"Would a real meat eater rather eat a $5 burger made from (well you really
don't want to know what burger meat is made from)"

Umm, yes please? Y'know what burger meat is made from? It's made from cow.
Don't be squeamish, your ancestors ate far grosser bits of animals than you're
gonna get in your hamburger.

~~~
shawnc
My ancestors didn't have indoor plumbing. By your logic, you should do just
fine without.

It's far more of an point being made, than just being squeamish. But somehow I
don't think me re-listing what's been said will make a difference.

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unwiredben
As a long-time vegetarian, I'm really excited about this. I just hope they're
able to get distribution here in Austin soon, although with the Whole Foods
group HQed here, I expect that won't take too long.

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jasonallen
I want to like this, but it conflicts with Michael Pollan's rules for eating
("don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food").

Their chicken strips contain titanium dioxide. I'm no expert, but wikipedia
says we probably shouldn't be eating that. What am I missing?

~~~
excuse-me
>Don't eat anything your great grandmother wouldn't recognize as food

Erm, Tripe, blood pudding, sweet breads VS Tiramasu, Sushi, Lobster

Sorry Gran!

~~~
mikeryan
_Sweet breads vs tiramisu?_ Is there a competition between fried thymus and
pancreas and a cake made out of cookies and marscapone cheese?

BTW my great grandmother would recognize the blood pudding, sweet breads and
tripe. She was Irish. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of great gran's who'd
recognize the others.

~~~
excuse-me
Yes that was rather my point to the glib "don't eat anything your grandmother
wouldn't recognise"!

My dear old grandmother never saw Tiramasu, Sushi or a Lobster (at least on a
plate) and wouldn't recognise it as food. However some of the stuff she did
eat - urgghhhh !

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naner
This is great (I'm a big proponent of synthetic meat, which is similar, and
the potential of engineered foods in general) but I'm not so sure Biz is the
best judge of what real meat tastes and feels like if he has been a long time
vegan.

Also it will be extremely difficult to get Americans to switch to fake meat,
no matter how cheap/tasty/nutritious it is. We are a pretty superstitious
culture.

~~~
shawnc
Superstitious but there's also a lot of identity from eating meats. Especially
for men. Eating muscle meats like Steak is a big deal, and we as men are
somehow less macho and manly if we don't eat these. It might sound ludicrous,
but when I became vegetarian it was amazing the comments I got from friends
all around not being a man from the decision. A wife of one friend piped up "I
dunno, I think it's more manly to stick to something you believe in, than do
something just cause it'd be 'Manly'."

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mmagin
"no saturated fat"

So we're still hung up on that.

~~~
mistercow
Yes. Believe it or not, despite what certain faddists would have you believe,
the "lots of saturated fat is actually really good for you" position is still
contradicted by the vast preponderance of evidence.

~~~
jacoblyles
The evidence that shows that saturated fat is bad for you is based on large-
scale population surveys that only demonstrate that most Americans who eat
lots of saturated fat are unhealthy. They don't demonstrate a causal link
between saturated fat and heart disease.

On the other hand, there are plentiful clinical experimental studies which
show health benefits from switching to a diet heavier in saturated fats,
including favorable changes in cholesterol levels and body composition. Peruse
these articles when you get a chance:

<http://www.nmsociety.org/low-carb-research.html>

In particular, it's important to note that Americans have decreased their
saturated fat intake since the government told them to in the 70s, and heart
disease rates have gone up:

[http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/08...](http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0899-9007/PIIS0899900710002893.pdf)

~~~
grgbrn
It's a complex topic, and I'm no expert. But based on all of the contradictory
studies out there, I don't think it's quite as simple as you're making it
sound.

For example, a new study done in Sweden was in the press recently which sounds
to run counter to the ones you've linked to.

[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2157532/Atkins-
die...](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2157532/Atkins-diet-causes-
heart-disease-risk-linked-surge-cholesterol-levels.html)

[http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/time-to-
re...](http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/time-to-retire-the-
low-carb-diet-fad/258343/)

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jacoblyles
What are the vegans going to do when they find out that saturated animal fats
are good for you?

<http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/saturated-fat-0>

I'm looking forward to the schadenfreude I get as Americans continue to reduce
their saturated fat intake and continue to suffer from more diabetes and heart
disease.

~~~
ceejayoz
And where does that article say saturated _animal_ fats?

Plenty of saturated fat in coconut oil, chocolate, etc.

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AznHisoka
Humans are meant to eat meat, not just veggies.

~~~
mistercow
What do you mean by "meant to"? I suppose humans are also "meant to" be eaten
by bears or die from minor infections, but I'm not exactly eager to sign up
for that, are you?

~~~
mc32
I think one (not being a prey for a bear) takes no biological re-adjustment
(well, except provisions to live longer, I suppose). On the other hand,
getting used to a radically different diet would take many generations to
adjust to. For example, after a few thousand years, some people are not yet
used to cow's milk, or used to wheat. Long term, yes, nature should take care
of that.

~~~
mistercow
Huh? I've been a vegetarian for 16 years, and a vegan for one year, and I'm
quite adjusted. I don't remember any generations passing in that time, but I
might not have been paying attention.

~~~
mc32
I meant adjusting naturally to the different source of nutrition. If you're a
vegan, you would normally need to be very careful of your diet so that you do
not introduce nutritional deficiencies into your system, or you would need to
subsidize your nutrition with vitamins. Long term, the body could find a way
to bypass the nutritional subsidies --it could take a very long time (cows had
to develop additional stomachs to adjust to eating primarily grass, for
example).

~~~
sdm
Ahhh... you have to be pretty careful with what you eat if you eat meat as
well to. Just walk down the street for examples. Generally, the length of our
digestive system is sited as one of the main reasons we are so poorly adapted
at eating meat.

~~~
ceejayoz
Our ancestors generally weren't eating massive portions of heavily processed,
heavily spiced meat. Taco Bell gives you the shits because it's Taco Bell, not
because it's meat.

~~~
mistercow
In fact, many of our ancestors were often eating so little meat as to be
nutritionally insignificant, which is the other major hole in the "eating meat
is natural" argument.

But I really don't know why you added "heavily spiced" in there. Spices are
usually more or less nutritionally neutral.

~~~
ceejayoz
> Spices are usually more or less nutritionally neutral.

Nutritionally neutral, but not gastrointestinally, as folks sensitive to spicy
food can attest.

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excuse-me
I don't like vegan meat. Vegans are often stringy and tasteless. I would
prefer eating corn fed Iowans whenever I am involved in a plane crash in the
Andes

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roopeshv
> "They were coming at it from this big science, super practical, scalable
> angle. They were saying, 'We want to get into the multi-billion-dollar meat
> industry with a plant-based meat.'

show us the science. (anyone who fucking links me to documentaries, and non-
cited articles/studies, i'll fucking punch them in the face)

