
Internet mob justice is out of control - s_kilk
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9074865/cecil-lion-palmer-mob-justice
======
SnakePlissken
Whenever I see the Internet Hate Machine in full spin I'm reminded of the
following quote:

 _" The sage of Toronto [Marshall McLuhan] had formerly spent several decades
marveling at the numerous freedoms created by the ‘global village’ instantly
and effortlessly accessible to all. Villages, unlike towns, have always been
ruled by conformism, isolation, petty surveillance, boredom and repetitive
malicious gossip about the same families. Which is a precise enough
description of the global spectacle’s present vulgarity."_ \- Guy Debord,
Comments on The Society of the Spectacle, 1988

I'm not very familiar with Debord or _The Society of the Spectacle_ but the
analogy always struck me as well suited to the darker, more banal side of the
modern Internet.

~~~
dang
Somewhere in this amazing 1967 documentary, McLuhan defines the global village
as "everybody minding everybody else's business". It's astonishing how much he
got right.

[http://dangerousminds.net/comments/this_is_marshall_mcluhan](http://dangerousminds.net/comments/this_is_marshall_mcluhan)

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JadeNB
The point of the article—that it's important to remember that mob justice is
no more appropriate when directed against a deserving than an undeserving
target, precisely because the mob can't be trusted to decide who's
'deserving'—I think is well taken, but this seems a bit much:

> His dental practice is closed at the moment, and his harassers are gleeful
> that they are denying him an income. But this also inflicts harm on people
> who did not kill Cecil the lion. Palmer's family presumably relies on his
> income. So do his employees, whose livelihoods are now threatened as well.
> When a Reddit user pointed this out, over 1,500 users voted in support of
> the response that "His employees are better off working elsewhere." The mob,
> naturally, has shown no intention of helping to find new jobs for the
> innocent dental employees it is seeking to put out of work.

Presumably, the same, or almost the same, outcome (of his dental practice
being closed, not the other harrassment) would occur if he were, say,
imprisoned for his actions after a lawful trial, but no-one would claim that
it was the court's responsibility to "find new jobs for the innocent dental
employees it is [putting] out of work."

EDIT: I know downvote-complaining is out of place, but silent downvotes in
response to serious argument is a pain. I certainly could be wrong, but I
intended my contribution to be a constructive part of the discussion; please
explain to me what's wrong or why you disagree!

~~~
ericson578
maybe the rise of internet "mob justice" is in part due to the masses losing
faith in traditional forms of justice. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just a
reflection.

~~~
tbrownaw
I don't think it's about losing faith, so much as formalized careful justice
being contrary to human nature.

I remember learning that ancient Athens had the same problem, with demagogues
stirring up emotions to talk the assembly into doing all sort of stupid shit.

The more available group over-emotionality is, the more effort is required to
suppress it in favor of reasoned responses.

~~~
donatj
This. 100% this. The left over ape in U.S. Yells "get um!" When it's angry.
Formalized justice exists to mitigate this. The internet has just made it so
much easier for mobs to organize.

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blueflow
Since most Mobs don't even bother to verify their Information, People have
gotten harassed, received death threats and lost their jobs on purely
fictional Information. Or committed suicide, like Sunil Tripathi [1].

This is inacceptable.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunil_Tripathi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunil_Tripathi)

~~~
johnmaguire2013
I just read the Wikipedia page and nothing in it said he committed suicide due
to being harassed on fictional information from online.

In fact, he had already been missing a month when he was accused. And his body
was found shortly after.

~~~
blueflow
Then take german model Claudia Boerner instead.

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bpodgursky
It isn't mob justice, it's media justice. Without enough money or reporters to
report on serious news, they report on irrelevant outrage like this -- and
then claim it's popular outrage, when they themselves fanned it.

~~~
donatj
Honestly no one but people over their 30s watches the news anymore. These are
not the primary members of these mobs. The classical media is more or less
over.

~~~
WalterSear
The media also include web journalists.

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microcolonel
Gamergate, as far as I can tell, is not an “online harassment campaign”. I can
see a lot of things that could be considered online harassment campaigns
directed _toward_ that group(and anyone they can claim to be associated with
them), for certain.

It has not been a movement of targeting women in technology, only people who
seek to upset it for speaking fees and nervous group applause.

Sounds like a bit of doublethink, if you ask me.

~~~
mcphage
So what does Gamergate _do_?

~~~
microcolonel
In short, "Gamergate" doesn't "do" anything, because it has no physical
manifestation. Not only does it fail to be a noun, it fails also to be an
adjective.

#GamerGate is actually just a hashtag, the context for the hashtag was(and for
the most part continues to be) that some (gaming-related) rags, for example
Kotaku, are deeply unethical and don't seem to care until it hurts their
bottom line.

This is why for example, in response to the support drummed up in association
with the #GamerGate hashtag, the Society of Professional Journalists is
actually hosting an debate series on it (the event is called AirPlay, and will
happen mid-August).

Because some of the people involved in the breaches of ethics surrounding
media sites like Gawker-run Kotaku were "feminists", and as a result of the
association of feminism as an ideology with women as a people: some people
can't help but see #GamerGate as an affront to women because "feminists" are
involved in the controversy, and on the other side.

Worse still, the typical #GamerGate poster is so consistently well-behaved
that opposing commentators have relied on false-flag campaigns, one famously
by a Gawker Media employee.

All the while, there's that tingling sensation of your brain realizing that it
really is just a hashtag, and not an ideology.

~~~
mcphage
> I can see a lot of things that could be considered online harassment
> campaigns directed _toward_ that group(and anyone they can claim to be
> associated with them), for certain.

> #GamerGate is actually just a hashtag

Well, if Gamergate is merely a hashtag, and so didn't do anything—then
opponents of Gamergate aren't an online harassment campaign either, since
they're merely the _lack_ of a hashtag!

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dre85
"The formal justice system derives it decision-making from written laws and
generations of precedent; it is adjudicated in a highly formal and regulated
environment. It is often flawed, but is at least designed with the goal of
fair and consistent treatment for both the accused and the accuser."

So if it fails while having had good intentions, there's nothing more to be
done?

~~~
JadeNB
> So if it fails while having had good intentions, there's nothing more to be
> done?

I think that that is not what the article is saying at all; rather it is
saying that your dissatisfaction (not you personally!) with the course of
justice does not excuse your taking justice into your own hands.

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rrss1122
Interesting that Vox is the platform on which this article appears. They are
as much a part of the internet justice mob as Facebook or Twitter. Several
articles on their front page have clickbait articles and are designed to get
people riled up. Look at "It's shockingly easy to exploit legal immigrant
workers" and "How Planned Parenthood became Republicans' public enemy no. 1"
as examples.

I don't think the internet mob is "out of control". I think it is working as
intended. The media has always fabricated stories as distractions or as
character assassinations against certain people. The internet mob is the next
evolution of that. Cecil the lion is the latest mass distraction.

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hackuser
When is a mob 'in control'? In what case is a mob a good idea?

~~~
coldtea
In what case is a government a good idea?

~~~
mcphage
Well, if you have an army bearing down on you. Or if you might have an army
bearing down on you. Or if you have something that someone wants. Or if you
are in a place that someone wants to be. Or if people don't like you. Or if
there's a natural disaster. Or if you want to do something that you can't
afford, that will help other people too. Or if you want to walk around at
night safely. Or if you want to have educated children. Or if you want to have
an educated community. Or if companies are doing something bad. Or if
companies are treating people poorly. Or if companies are selling dangerous
products. Or if you ever want something accomplished, but don't have the money
or power or people do get it done. Or if

~~~
coldtea
Notice how none of these things requires a government to be fullfilled, much
less the kind of governments we have now.

Merely coordinated action, which could also be spontaneous in some cases (we
need X, we get together and build X), or constrained to the desired goal in
others (we need an army, we devote some of our resources to that goal alone).

> _Or if companies are doing something bad. Or if companies are treating
> people poorly. Or if companies are selling dangerous products._

In the real world, they mostly do those things in cohorts with governments.

Besides "companies" are a legal entity, their existence pressuposes a
government (and a whole capitalist/market based ecosystem).

------
okasaki
Vox's garbage clickbait articles are out of control.

~~~
JadeNB
This seems like a thoughtful piece, not clickbait at all; the headline hardly
seems inflammatory or sensationalistic to me.

~~~
otheraccount
It ignores death threats, doxxing, bomb threats and mail threats that came
from Vox's group of anti-gamergate supporters, while saying that we shouldn't
endorse these things when it's 'our side' that does them.

~~~
JadeNB
Being wrong or one-sided is different to being clickbait.

~~~
mst
Or: The brazen partisanship involved in the selection of the examples amused
me but didn't detract from the argument.

