
U.S. Accuses Tech Firm of Bias Against Asian Software Engineers - rdabane
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/technology/us-accuses-tech-firm-of-bias-against-asian-software-engineers.html?referer=https://news.google.com
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williamaadams
unconscious bias, conscious bias, outright discrimination. What a quagmire of
human existence these topics drift into eh?

No secret, I'm a 51 year old black man living in America. I've been in "high
tech" all my life (Commodore Pet). I've run my own company, and worked in and
around others, and now reside at Microsoft. My current non-tech mission is the
promotion of diversity in hiring in core tech jobs
[http://www.industryexplorers.com](http://www.industryexplorers.com)

These are complex issues in complex times. I can say one thing though, much of
the current set of biases will slowly dissipate as our children get into
positions of power. Ethnicity itself is starting to get very blended. My
college aged daughter (who is mixed herself) has friends of all stripes. As
they form companies, and hire people, they'll hire like themselves, which is
to say an eclectic bunch of people.

The next frontier in bias might be economic stratus, or hair color, or which
side of the egg you break open.

I think the best we can do is be as aware as possible, and simply strive to
find and work with good people, while holding everyone in high esteem and with
respect.

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howwth
deleted

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williamaadams
I'm personally not into diversity for diversity's sake, because I'm not quite
sure what that is.

What I am for is equal opportunities. In some instances, giving that "equal"
to one set of people requires work because they have been put on an unequal
footing for some time. This was true in America for blacks because the origin
of blacks was slavery (blacks were considered chattle, nothing more than cows,
pigs, and goats). That kind of disadvantage requires some amount of work to
overcome. The voting rights act wasn't enacted until 1965, the year after I
was born, so that's something to consider.

With respect to tech, it's really easy for me. The back of my employment badge
has our company's mission statement: Empower every person and every
organization on the planet to achieve more.

I believe we greatly enhance our ability to do that by creating a more
inclusive and diverse workforce. It's not simply about DNA diversity (women
and 'minorities'), but it's also a diversity of experiences, from around the
world. I'm willing to take the math major from Tunisia and teach them to be a
great coder so they can contribute their experience to our mission, and help
create software that's appropriate for their origin.

So, long answer I guess.

To me, everything is about learning and growth (probably due to my current
age). So, I see your experience in Oakland, and say "great, you've gained
another perspective on life". Let's see what you can do with it.

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briholt
[https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/newsroom/newsrelease...](https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/newsroom/newsreleases/OFCCP20160926_0.pdf)

The article implies they preferred white candidates, but the preferred races
are not mentioned in the government's press release, simply "non-Asian." I
would not jump to conclusions about the non-Asian candidates as there are
other possible scenarios.

~~~
fma
Yep...With companies attempting to appear diverse in I.T., that means a
company needs to hire less Asians AND less white people in IT.

They could have been trying to prefer black, Hispanic, or Native American to
boost up their diversity numbers.

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tabeth
I've always wondered why many of the larger tech firms don't have anonymous
interviewing. Wouldn't it be pretty trivial to implement?

You could just have the candidate go into a room with a computer with no
internet access and type out answers to algorithmic questions. The
instructions could be delivered via typed text. It would be incredibly
impersonal, but it would be hard to discern personality given the industry's
propensity to have trivia/algorithm questions.

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aaron695
> anonymous interviewing

This goes against the entire reason you interview.

This is not about hiring a mechanical labourer (Musician, Factor worker,
Computer Repairer) it's about professionals which is team work.

~~~
toast0
I think this is the first time I've seen a musician called a mechanical
worker. Ensemble music is teamwork, and good solo music isn't mechanical
either.

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kh812000
Who does Palantir think they are ?? The ivy league?? Geesh we all know only
tier 1 colleges can discriminate against asians using the "diversity" card....

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kelukelugames
dupe

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12585250](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12585250)

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ekiminmo
According to the article, 85% of applicants were Asian. Does anyone ever ask
why that ratio is so high?

My wife (who is Asian) graduated from Australia's top high school, where 90%
of students are Asian. She and her friends now go to the most prestigious
universities in Australia where they study medicine, law and engineering.

She explained to me that as a child of Asian parents if you can't get into
medicine, you get into law. If you can't do law, you do engineering or
commerce. It really doesn't matter if you want to be a musician or a
photographer or do something else with your life. The end product is that we
have a huge number of Asian kids graduating from top universities in
professions that they don't personally care about, and I bet that comes out in
the interview.

I don't believe that people should be discriminated on for their race, but I
wonder how much racial diversity gets swept under the rug in the debate.
Sometimes racial values stand in direct or indirect opposition to the values
of other cultures. Perhaps Asian culture has opposing values to the culture of
the software industry, and when that emerges in hiring statistics law suits
get filed.

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aaron695
"“The likelihood that this result occurred according to chance is
approximately one in 3.4 million,” the Labor Department said in its
complaint."

Which is obviously BS.

They are heavily correlated, not independent events.

At a guess most studied at universities in country X known for it's sub
quality education.

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Hupriene
I wonder if this isn't some long lingering reverberation of the interment of
Japanese Americans during WWII. Is this the influence of the institutional
memory of the US government security community?

Alternatively, this could be the natural result of defensive measures against
a concerted effort on the part of e.g. the Chinese government to place people
inside of an organization that deals with a lot of secure data.

It's probably reasonable to assume the worst (naked racism), but you never
know.

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victorhugo31337
Not surprising. Rich white people want to stick together and give
opportunities to other rich white people in their own circle. It's the same
for Asian people in Silicon Valley as well--I don't think it's fair to single
out one particular race for this type of behavior. Racism seems to be a human
characteristic--whether it's in prison or tech firms, racism is pervasive. It
would be more interesting and very much more innovative if SV where a true
meritocracy.

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michaelvoz
I call bullshit. Give me some numbers to back that up. I do 2-3 interviews a
week and race is never a consideration. When an engineer is reviewing another
engineer's code, I have never ever seen this be an issue.

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oulu2006
They'd call that anecdotal evidence.

I don't have numbers to back up the original post, but I'm interested in
seeing what he comes back with.

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victorhugo31337
No comeback--just my personal comment. You guys don't have to agree. My
original point is that I wasn't surprised regarding the hiring practices at
Palantir.

