
Vancouver’s ban on the doorknob - sethbannon
http://www.vancouversun.com/Vancouver+humble+doorknob+likely+trendsetter/9173543/story.html
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cylinder
This article is so unnecessarily long. It takes a full page before it even
mentions what the doorknobs are being replaced with, and for what reason. It
doesn't show a picture of a lever door knob nor does it even explain how one
works.

~~~
RyanMcGreal
Third paragraph:

> In Vancouver, the doorknob is heading into a setting sun. Its future has
> been date-marked, legislated out of existence in all future construction, a
> tip to society’s quest for universal design and the easier-to-use lever
> handle.

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minikites
I'll never understand backlash against accessibility improvements. People
fought against ramps and now they're the reason all people can have wheels on
their luggage.

Accessibility is important.

~~~
Zancarius
The accessibility-oriented non-sliding doors I've seen fairly common to most
new construction in my part of the US (and likely elsewhere) tends to be
electrical button-operated doors. I'd imagine that someone who's wheelchair
bound wouldn't find levers to be quite as accessible as electric doors so the
accessibility argument seems a bit of a stretch.

That said, most establishments here tend to have push/pull handles or sliding
doors, doing away entirely with the notion of something you "twist."

~~~
skoob
Having a disability doesn't necessarily mean that the person is wheelchair
bound.

~~~
Zancarius
Really? I had no idea.

I was using the example as an extreme. It's curious to me that in most
debates, you'll find no shortage of contrarians.

More to the point: Ramp access and automatic doors are viable, proven
improvements to accessibility. Levers? No so much.

I suppose I ought to re-iterate why I find the notion that a lever-operated
door to be "more accessible" than a door knob suspect, particularly if you
consider people with carpal tunnel, other wrist injuries, or osteoarthritis in
their digits (particularly thumbs). In these populations, wrist movements of
any kind may be painful or impossible. To that end, I would believe that
simple handle-operated doors that require push/pull only access ought to be
far more accessible.

But again, _automatic_ doors are something of a comparative panacea regardless
of the disability. If you can approach the door or push a button, you can gain
access to the structure.

So what was your point again?

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dmix
I'm curious if all regulation will eventually turn from a blacklist approach
into a whitelist one? When every minor detail is finally legislated, the
logical end-game is to be told what you can do at every point, instead of
simply what you can't.

Note how in this example, it's not just about "banning" door knobs, but about
requiring levers.

~~~
mhurron
This looks to be about as 1984 as ADA is. This whole thing appears to be an
accessibility issue.

~~~
jerf
Specifying it for all government or public construction is ADA-ish. Specifying
it for private residences is more in the 1984 direction.

I say "in the direction" because no, I don't think this is a boot stomping
into our face, forever. But it is heavy handed. Hardly unprecedented, of
course. Pushing out "accessibility" requirements into the general home market
is something we've not done for good reason; it's an expense incurred quite
widely for little societal benefit, unlike public spaces. We can't afford to
make every residence everywhere handicapped-accessible, childproofed, elderly-
appropriate, etc etc. Private residences do have variance due to the variances
in people.

~~~
mturmon
You could spin this as safety as well as accessibility. E.g., if an older
person is alone in the home and something happens. If the older person is a
visitor, you might not change out the handles for them, but their safety is
impacted if they can't open the doors.

Other safety/accessibility regulations cover the width of doorways and the
presence and specific design elements of handrails, even in private dwellings.
(E.g., the handrail must be not too skinny and not too fat, and have parts on
the end that turn inward and meet the wall.)

There are a lot of such codes. Some of them I only know about because I built
a home addition in California. Once you know about them, you start noticing
these design elements on all the built structures around you.

I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote! (I notice that you got a downvote,
which seems weird.). Just pondering the distinction between safety and
accessibility, and how you'd draw that line, and trying to think of related
examples of regulations that pertain to private residences.

~~~
jlgreco
I use to live in a home where the front door opened up into a staircase which
went to the living area, the first floor was commercial space, not
residential. What would this hypothetical elderly visitor do then?

I think accessibility is fine and dandy in public spaces, but the line between
accessibility and safety becomes quite clear when you begin considering
private residences. There are all manner of perfectly normal objects,
appliances, and situations that can become dangerous in hypothetical
situations involving disabled visitors. Hell, just look at bathtubs: generally
considered benign, but potential deathtraps for hypothetical elderly visitors.
Nobody is likely to replace their bathtub with a no-slip walk-in bathtub just
because an elderly person is visiting, should we mandate that all new
structures be build with walk-in tubs?

In the context of private residences, safety issues are ones that really
present an equal-opportunity risk. Mandating circuit breakers is a clear-cut
example of a safety issue, not an accessibility issue. Something that is done
solely for the sake of the disabled is a clear-cut accessibility issue. Stair
lifts, ramps, and accessible nobs are all accessibility issues. They do
nothing for the safety of the general population; they should not be framed as
safety issues.

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moomin
If you have kids on the way, I highly recommend knobs over levers for the
exact reason Vancouver is specifying the opposite: they're harder to open.

Between 1 and 2, it's invaluable.

~~~
fatman
Agree 100% - but now that mine are a bit older, I'd like to replace them all
with levers so I can open them with my hands full of laundry, kids, bags,
toys, etc...

~~~
igravious
So patent the knob to lever transformer thingy.

~~~
chronomex
It's already been done.
[https://www.ncmedical.com/item_187.html](https://www.ncmedical.com/item_187.html)

~~~
igravious
Damn you North Coast Medical - I thought I was rich, rich I tells ya!

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knackernews
For those curious but don't have the time or desire to read 1294 words of
fluff, the reason (which I got from another article) is to make buildings more
accessible for the elderly, disabled and the arthritic. It's much easier to
use a door lever than it is to twist a door knob.

~~~
MattGrommes
The entire article wasn't fluff. One thing it talked about was the idea that
this specifically isn't "for the elderly", etc. It's to make it more
accessible for everyone, which in turn helps the disabled.

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umsm
When we remodeled our house, we specifically bought lever-style door handles
so that it's easier to open / close doors, easier on arthritic hands, etc.

But, I wonder: Are there are other door mechanisms which will prove easier to
use? Did anyone ever install spring controlled doors in a home for this
reason?

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iluvuspartacus
Max Brooks, if you're reading this, you definitely have to add this little
snippet as to why Vancouver fell in the great zombie apocalypse. (While
zombies were unable to operate traditional doorknobs due to lack of
coordination and mental ability, levers were another story...)

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shittyanalogy
But but but, handles get caught on your pant loops.

~~~
protomyth
I'll go a bit further, if the group you are working for during the summer as a
Tutor / Counsellor has bought combination key-chains, ID lanyard to hang
around your neck, then friggin handles are an accident waiting to happen.

I was bending down to help pick up a whiteboard (wall mount) and one of the
other T/Cs decided to open the door fast[1], catching the lanyard, and sending
me head first into the ground. I was knocked-out for about 10mins and was
bleeding from my head. I should note that I came too before they had decided
if they should call 911. I feared for the children that summer and stopped
wearing that damn thing[2].

Handles are bad[3], that is why we use door knobs.

1) She later claim to be an experienced camper and place here tent directly in
a ditch prior to a thunderstorm

2) I get a little nervous with ties these days

3) never mind problems with children and large pets

~~~
kennywinker
This is a case against lanyards as much as it is against door handles.

~~~
protomyth
True, but having something that is metal and hook-shaped attached to every
door seems like a poor idea.

~~~
kennywinker
Unless you're physically disabled, in which case it seems like a great idea.

~~~
protomyth
Or have small children, in which case it's a horrible idea

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DanBC
If you ever need to fit anti-ligature door furniture please avoid the conical
style handles.

The worst I've used was like this, but without the cutaways.
[http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/10/17/11244306/CRX-K-
NEWx5...](http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/10/17/11244306/CRX-K-
NEWx500_1.jpg)

Really hard to use. Even for people with good hands who are not off their
faces on meds.

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donatj
I personally find handles much more difficult to use, requiring me to bend my
hand to unnatural angles.

~~~
kennywinker
A proper horizontal door handle can be opened with ones butt cheek while
holding stuff.

~~~
graywh
Only if you're tall enough.

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test9394
Typical Vancouver approach, ban all the things to sound more richeous. "Best
place on earth" yeah right.

~~~
iLoch
...That's pretty sour. Come on over, we'll grab a Tim's and talk things out.

