

Ask HN: Could we crowdfund a therapist who is available to depressed hackers? - AlexMuir

The news about Aaron has saddened us all.  I am saddened and alarmed at the Wikipedia entries for other people who have left our community the same way.  I am even more troubled by the idea that less prominent members of the community will have committed suicide but no-one has been there to tell us - their accounts are simply dormant.<p>So I've been thinking for the last couple of days about what I could do.  My first feeling was that perhaps people could post their contact details to a thread and welcome any contact from people needing to talk to someone.  But do I know what to say if someone called/emailed?  Perhaps I'd make things worse - I just don't know.  (me@alexmuir.com / Skype: alex.muir.uk the offer stands to anyone who wants to be heard.)<p>So with that idea binned, I want to ask whether it's feasible for us to put some money in a fund to pay for a professional  (I've no idea what profession?  counsellor? therapist? psychologist?) who has knowledge of the hacker mentality and whose number is available for people who might want to talk.  They can invoice the fund for their hourly rate and we can monitor whether it's being used.  If not, we just gift the money to the national helplines.  We are also exceptionally fortunate that a number of us have the money to pay for help - we just don't know where to get it.<p>Perhaps telephone calls wouldn't work for this sort of thing?  Maybe it's best left to the national helplines?  Perhaps the money would just be burned by timewasters?  I don't know - but there are far more knowledgeable people here and I wanted to float the idea and see if it's even possible.<p>Note: I've hesitated to post this because it seems much more vocal that asking for comments on a new site.  If it's a terrible idea that's fine - don't feel in any way obliged to sugar-coat your responses because it's a 'well-meaning' thought.
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lsiebert
First of all, thanks for caring about people.

Don't feel nervous about wanting to do something to help, and not knowing
exactly what or how. Compassion isn't the same thing as knowledge, any more
then thinking programming is cool is the same thing as understanding Hoffman
coding.

This is a rare topic that my bachelor's degree in psychology can maybe help me
answer on HN. The sort of thing you are talking about is something that the
practice of community psychology addresses.

Incidentally, when I say you hereafter, I mean people interested in working
towards dealing with the issues you raise, including stakeholders.

There is nothing wrong with exploring the idea of helping depressed hackers.
Let me get that out of the way.

But you don't necessarily know the best way to help. And you don't want to
dictate what is best, without understanding things from different
perspectives. And you don't want to be treating the individuals if there are
broader root causes or issues.

Community psychology would suggest you should consult multiple stakeholders,
and build for the community in an iterative way, using empirical data to
develop best practices. Just like A/B testing for your website change, you
want to know if you are helping things get better, and by how much, and how
you can optimize even more.

So, multiple stakeholders... Stakeholders include: depressed hackers, families
of depressed hackers, friends of depressed hackers, people willing to offer
support/money/time, therapists and other mental health professionals,
companies employing/funding hackers.

Possibly insurance companies and local hacker groups.

All the above can be involved, can help, or hinder, have resources, and
desires.

You also need to step back and think hard about what you see the issue. The
problem you think you want to solve needs to be touched on by those
stakeholders, as well as seeing what resources can be offered. To some extent
the solution should fit the resources, but it's also important that the
solution fit the problem.

You need to make sure you are solving the issue at the right level. Are there
systemic causes, or barriers to help, that go beyond a single individual? Who
can help change those, if they exist.

You can try to help the individual deal with their environment, but that's
just first order change. It may be more helpful to change their environment.
Instead of addressing people when they are hurting the worst, can we prevent
some of the harm they experience so they hurt less?

Like if there is a stigma associated with mental health issues, addressing
that with education could help people get treatment. If the pressure to
produce code and work long hours makes increases anxiety and depression, that
can be addressed as well.

There also may be regional differences. I believe the UK has national mental
health care coverage, right? The U.S. doesn't sadly.

My point being, don't just think about helping a person cope with how things
are. Think about how we might change how things are so it's easier for such
people to cope.

Anyway, I hope that's helpful in your process. I want to encourage you. Go
ahead, try something. Maybe start a discussion site or mailing list on the
topic. Start small and prepare to shift your understanding and focus more then
one time.

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dave9999
I honestly don't think it's the cost that's the issue for most of us. It's
getting over that stubborn-ness of "this is who I am and I'll live with it"
and actually seeking professional help. It's accepting therapy and medication
that has been proven to help, proven to save lives. The hacker mentality is
"I'll fix it myself". Just look at how often 'hack your brain' articles get
posted on HN.

You can't always fix it yourself. Sometimes you need professional help.

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brudgers
[Situation in the U.S.]

Professional therapists are licensed state by state. The regulation of
psychiatry tends to be similar between states. This also tends to be somewhat
true for clinical psychology (that's doctorate level). Beyond those two,
regulations, credentials, titles, etc. tend to vary significantly among the
states - though there are some clusters of similarity based on the standards
promoted by national organizations.

As a practical matter, it would be difficult to find a person licensed broadly
enough to provide services in more than one or two states. Furthermore, in
regards to therapy, I doubt that remote services would meet the professional
standards of any qualified therapist.

Resource referral and non-medical counseling may be another matter. See
<http://www.militaryonesource.mil/>

I'm not claiming expertise, just one eye...My spouse is an LCSW (licensed
clinical social worker) of nearly 20 years, much of it spent as a
psychotherapist.

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a_bonobo
I love the idea of members of a community reaching out like this to other
members, shows the care that goes into this and the passion that you people
carry.

Is a hackers' depression in any way different to the depression of a non-
hacker? I don't think so, which is why I think that the usual helplines are
sufficient (but others will probably differ).

I have another caveat: If you think of helping depressed people directly,
think of yourself, too. People working at helplines have direct access to
counsellors, which you don't. It might be that someone contacts you and then
drops off the grid, having possibly committed suicide - could you live with
that?

You might have pushed this person over the edge by a wrong remark, and you
will have no idea which it was. You will fuss over your logs looking for any
remark that even remotely could be interpreted as wrong, maybe a joke that
could have been misinterpreted? You will never know (I've been in a similar
situation). So please think of your own mental health, too.

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bjourne
This is a great initiative and I appreciate the effort. Myself, I'm too bad at
helping people emotionally, but I wish you success in it. It's needed and
useful.

