
After neighbor’s death, first-time filmmaker declares war on suicide - kenshiro_o
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2013/07/08/issues/driven-by-regret-over-neighbors-death-first-time-filmmaker-declares-war-on-suicide/#.Uka0T4ZtjRg
======
todayiamme
>>> an old woman approached Duignan and said, “That’s not a movie, that’s a
weapon against suicide.” <<<

It's amazing what a compelling movie can do. It's a delicate act, but when
done correctly it encourages people to use their compassion and empathy as
weapons for a cause. We're so attuned to human faces and voices that movies
directly and emotionally engage us in ways that are far beyond mere paper.

My friend attempted to do something like this with homelessness. He actually
found a camera, went out there, and just tried to talk to homeless people and
helped them to get off the streets while chronicling their journey. Although
it sounds simple and, well, uninteresting, what he captured on film ended up
being a fascinating, compassionate look into this complex world. I really
recommend it;

[https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-
god/i...](https://itunes.apple.com/us/movie/but-for-the-grace-of-
god/id469930988)

~~~
lisper
Thanks for the shout-out. The film is also available on Amazon. The main web
site for the film is here:

[http://graceofgodmovie.com/](http://graceofgodmovie.com/)

------
robotcookies
The suicide rates by nation in the article are likely higher than reported. I
lost a sibling to what I believe was suicide but it was recorded as an
accident. I also think under-reporting happens more in countries where there
is a stigma against it. Nations with a high Catholic population in particular
may under-report (my parents being Catholic would never accept suicide as a
cause of death for their daughter). Suicide is viewed as a sin and many
Catholics believe it leads to hell.

Also interesting is that many of the countries listed as having the lowest
suicide rates are also the most Catholic according to wikipedia (Phillipines,
Brazil, Mexico and Italy).

~~~
contingencies
Good point. On the other hand, I would say most places have a stigma... I know
China does. The major difference with Japan being, people don't tend to live
alone.

------
rwmj
The actual documentary is here:
[http://www.saving10000.com/](http://www.saving10000.com/)

~~~
Nux
THANK YOU!

------
jacquesm
Unfortunately, suicide will never be stopped. And what is suicide anyway?
People later in life that are disease ridden and in pain would sometimes like
to end their lives in peace without causing someone else to automatically
become a criminal. Depending on who you talk to this is either a natural right
or absolutely off the table.

These are not simple subjects and every case is as different as people are
different.

~~~
emiliobumachar
It will never be _completely_ stopped without some seriously dystopian
measures, but it can be very much decreased by disseminating information,
investing in preventive measures, etc.

~~~
benjohnson
Careful with disseminating information - there's a theory that if you provide
a complete model for suicide that it will be emulated:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copycat_suicide)

------
RWeaver
I'm probably still very uninformed about Japanese society (it's complex), but
they are probably more prone to suicide than others. From what I understand
there is a huge emphasis on obligations to others, perfection, and the shame
of failure. Traditional Japanese culture frowns on entrepreneurship,
preferring obligation to a large corporation (who is in turn loyal to you),
where it can sometimes be hard being so disconnected from the value you
provide to society.

Most of hacker news will be lucky in this regard. Despite the occasional
existential crisis, as entrepreneurs we're self selected eternal optimists.
Sadly not everyone turns out so lucky.

~~~
jpatokal
Did you just suggest that Japanese are committing suicide because they can't
be entrepreneurs? (o_O)

In general, if you're wondering what causes high suicide rates, it's a lot
more useful to look at societal motivators than race. As everywhere, there's a
strong correlation between depression and suicide, and it's not hard to find
the main causes. In Japan's particular case, the largest group committing
suicide are the elderly, who have devoted their lives to their company and
feel they have nothing left when they retire. The second-largest group is the
unemployed, particularly those who have fallen into debt traps that very often
ensnare family and friends as guarantors, with life insurance providing an
"easy" way out. And the final group is students, who commit suicide to escape
bullying or the immense pressure of their final exams.

~~~
kenshiro_o
What I find shocking is life insurance companies paying out the family of the
insured if he/she commits suicide. As far as I know, there is no such clause
on life insurance contracts in the Europe (and I believe the U.S. as well).

Surely , as one of the first steps towards reducing the suicide rate in Japan,
insurance companies should stop incentivizing suicide.

~~~
pwim
In Canada and the US, it is common to not payout in the case of suicide within
two years of creating the contract (the same as Japan).

~~~
toomuchtodo
When I was going through a dark period financially and emotionally, I
specifically looked for life insurance policies that did not exclude suicide
and had only a two year exclusion period. They do indeed exist in the US; I
hold such a term life policy at the moment.

~~~
contingencies
Don't do it!

As a quote I read yesterday illustrated: _Be thankful for what you haven 't,
for it's less worry_.

~~~
meepmorp
> Don't do it!

I get why you're saying this, but it bugs me when people tell those with an
inclination to commit suicide to not do it.

It's not your life, and your judgments about its current and future value are
meaningless. The person living the life, and that person alone, can
meaningfully judge the value of continuing to be alive. It's arrogant and
dickish to tell a person about the value that continuing to live has, even if
well intentioned, and doubly so in the case of a person you (likely) do not
know.

~~~
contingencies
Naturally, you are correct, when taken to logical extreme. However, the bread
and butter of communication is assumption (shared meaning of words, etc.).
It's probably fair to assume that most people within this community can look
forward to some relative happiness and achievement in life, and I don't think
it's bad to support one another in "powering through" bad times. I'm no hard-
line pro-lifer: if my grandma asked me to help her suicide, like she quietly
mentioned she might many years earlier as the two of us watched her mother
die, I'd certainly consider it.

~~~
toomuchtodo
When things were not...going well, I took inspiration from Winston Churchill:
"If you're going through hell, keep going."

------
stevoski
Somehow, I feel it is within people's right to self-determination to be free
to choose suicide. And yet, I think I'd be very sad if a close friend
committed suicide.

~~~
omegant
The problem is that most of the times suicide is not a rational decission
taken by someone with terminal cancer to stop their fisical suffering. Most of
the times is the reaction of a malfunctioning brain. Most suicidals wouldn't
have taken the decission in a normal situation (not depressed) , and those who
failed to kill themselves are happy to be alive. That's why it's so important
to know the factors that trigger suicide compulsions, and the measures to
better fight them.. A depresed person suicide brings a big suffering to the
family and friends of the deceased, who most of the times don't know of the
intentions.

~~~
emp_zealoth
It doesn't have to be a terminal cancer. Sometimes it's just the loneliness,
or the facts that led to it - for example unwillingly hurting people I care
about because I'm a bit ... deficient when it comes to social skills and no
matter how much I fret, I will, eventually but invariably, say something
stupid that will make someone hurt. Stuffing me full of antidepressants won't
solve the underlying problem Neither will a chat on a hotline - you hang up
and the soulcrushing memories of those hurt people are back right away

~~~
omegant
But comiting suicide is not a logical decission in that situation. I don´t
know you, I don´t know your case nor how to improve the situation. But being
dead will not resolve the problem, and it will hurt the people you love much
much more than any harsh comment you are able to do. There is always the
possibility to find a way out, and then realice that that dark hole you where
in, was just a solvable problem. You seem a techical guy, don´t use your
analytic capabilities to rationalize and confirm your feelings, use them to
get new information that is able to help you.

------
gph
Heartening story, but I can't get over this line they stuck in at the bottom

>• Blue lights installed at train stations have reduced suicide by 80 percent
at those stations. How or why this works, nobody knows.

I can't stop thinking about this. I've tried to puzzle out some type of
reason, but I'm just not getting anything.

~~~
Swizec
[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256...](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/6578256/Blue-
lights-installed-in-Tokyo-train-stations-to-stop-suicides.html)

"Designed to soothe and calm, the specially-designed blue LED lights have been
suspended above the platforms of dozens of Tokyo railway stations in order to
stem the nation's spiralling suicide rate."

~~~
jlgreco
I'd guess that there is a distinct possibility that they work because people
are told that they work.

~~~
rdtsc
That's what I thought of.

It is a sort of a societal placebo. Or maybe the subconscious message is
"someone cared to put these here for me to prevent me from killing myself,
someone cares at least, maybe today is not the day".

In other words I wonder if the color of lights would have been violet or
yellow but some "research" had been disseminated that yellow lights are
calming and prevent suicide, that combined with the action of someone to
install them, then I suspect yellow lights would have worked just as well.

------
NIL8
This is an unusual and insightful post for HN. Thank you for it.

"The power of regret," what a powerful force. It's not often that we are able
to use it in such a tangible way. The filmmaker's attempt to make amends may
help us all to stop ignoring our neighbors.

~~~
kenshiro_o
This really is the driving force of the filmmaker and I really can't blame him
for ignoring his neighbour after having listened to her on so many
occasions... It's not like he was insensitive towards her but as humans we all
have a threshold that determines our capacity for empathy.

Still I wonder what kind of problems his neighbour had to justify putting an
end to her life.

------
silentbob20059
Hofstede conducted a study in the 60's 70's by submitting questionnaires to
IBM employees all over the world in order to compare the responses for
cultural differences.

Japan ranked highest in the world for masculinity, [masculinity-femininity
(task orientation versus person-orientation)]

Assuming Hofstede's reflect reality. Could this have something to do with the
high suicide rate?

Another musing,

Could it have something to do with Confucian cultures and a great deal of
pressure to fulfill one's filial piety?

~~~
contingencies
_Could it have something to do with Confucian cultures and a great deal of
pressure to fulfill one 's filial piety?_

Precisely. China, Japan, South Korea are all seriously Confucian influenced.
Chinese suicides are often young people with poor families who fail to enter
university. SK was the most depressing place I've ever been. Vietnam's another
place that's historically a heavily Confucian society, I wonder if they
collect realistic suicide statistics? (Last visit, last year, the mood in
Hanoi seemed to be very strong compared to, say, 10 years ago.)

------
geedy
My Grandfather completed suicide when I was 13 years old. It was an awful
experience for our whole family which includes his wife, their children, and
their children's children.

His suicide was caused by extreme depression, something he fought his entire
life. In my opinion, now, its not different than losing a battle with cancer,
except that outwardly it appears he "chose" to end his life. Having
experienced depression myself, I know it was not really him who made that
decision. Tools like this will hopefully help us find new "cures" or at least
support structures for those who are seriously mentally ill.

------
thenerdfiles
I've been grieving two years now. She was "brutally murdered" by a Greek
student, in Hamburg, Germany.

I had nightmares for 3 months. Insomnia and loss of love for code ensued, as I
created barriers with the world.

All my community could say is "it happens to anyone." And I take things too
literally, perchance. I doubt I could live through this again, in a world
where we are killing everyone from autistics to Jewish peoples to student
tourists with cameras.

But what is more I am now hyperaware. I long for sincere eyes. Some see it,
others simply attack. Others notice this of me as well, and they must discover
the mystery...with all sorts of tests. Yes, so I have sensitive hearing and I
rock when hungry. Does that make me a predator? I want the staring to stop.
But the basic fear: it could happen to anyone. Now I am reminded quite
frequently here in Austin that random and bad people are simply picked up off
of the street and killed, randomly, when all I have is a broken heart.

Until they run me off with that one last death or racist joke that makes upper
society's configurable moral compass quite unappealing, and its fascination
with tastelessness and unchecked chauvenism as the lingua franca of
capability.

People are often too ugly inside to warrant participation in this "fear
market."

~~~
lake99
I couldn't help but notice an apparent contradiction. You complain about
racism and chauvinism, and yet, you identify the murderer as a "Greek student"
instead of as a "deranged student".

~~~
darkmirage
This is ridiculous. If he had said that the murderer was a male student, would
you be complaining about sexism? Identifying someone's race is not racism. He
didn't imply anything about Greeks in general.

~~~
lake99
> He didn't imply anything about Greeks in general.

I suspected an implication. Please read the comments he made later on.

~~~
thenerdfiles
"Greece's economy" is a non-racism. Am I thereby attributing a cause simply by
mentioning its state of affairs?

You are forcing a racist interpretation where there isn't one. You are not
giving benefit of the doubt. No one is saying "boy those greeks sure screwed
themselves." And even if one were, that's an assessment of their political and
economic dealings, though we all know Greece is embedded in a complex
arrangement with the EU and the US's pig-headed foreign policies.

"X's ecomomy is crumbling" can be said without racism. And "madness" can be
similarly used I hold this true of any peoples subject to the human condition
with an economy so described. Look at Morocco, etc. Sometimes environment is
the cause, and when the environment is arbitrarily caused.

Again, as the commenter noted, nothing was said about Greeks [in general].
Economy of country and that as an alternative explanation to an individual of
that country, yes. The articles on the story state that he is Greek so I
figured I should as well.

In fact by saying "look at the economy" I am even further emphasizing the
arbitrariness of a cultural explanation, which psychologizing does not do but
rather lends to something about Greekness or Greek social thought. I'm saying
"yes, he happens to be Greek, and he is from a failing economy that may have
caused his distress." And so, "How did this happen to the economy in question
that might cause people subject to it to respond in all of these ways?"

Again, I don't know about the verdict on the man. I withhold opinion. I don't
think he'll be able to enjoy life given a majority of the options allotted
him. He's deprived of life either way, and this too is saddening. So there's
nothing to say about his "manipulating the system in his favor." He is in a
bad spot regardless, but I think saying that he is deranged is an intuitive
response, rather than a critical one. How did he become deranged? He clearly
was at some point not deranged. I'm saying the state of Greece's economy,
embedded in a global economy, is where we should look.

~~~
lake99
> The articles on the story state that he is Greek so I figured I should as
> well.

I believe you.

> I'm saying the state of Greece's economy, embedded in a global economy, is
> where we should look.

This is where I think you're jumping the gun. There are insane people
everywhere. Sometimes some of them do brutal things. That's a sad fact of
life. Implicating his Greek-ness will, I believe, lead to unnecessary
bitterness against Greeks.

I'm sure you've come across Grice's Maxim of Relevance. Going by that, I tend
to include "Greek" if his being Greek led to some racially motivated action,
I'd include "male" if his being male led to some sexually motivated action,
etc.

------
chatman
Link to the documentary he made:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0SHLxc2d0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo0SHLxc2d0)

------
Yourfags
Actually to be quite contrary, and just to hear people's ideas, how can anyone
judge whether death is right or wrong? Or in a different light, how do you say
that the promotion of human beings is a good thing? I'm a human being, and all
of us talking are, so perhaps we're inclined in that sense to believe that
human life is precious. But can one prove what death is? Is it always better
for someone to live, is it always better for someone to die? Death in my
poorly conceived view is just a moment in which we choose to no longer accept
this world, but I don't believe that I'll cease to exist. In fact no matter
how large or how terrifying the experience may be, it will still pass. Yes, in
a sense I'm making a relativistic argument, but it's interesting to me to hear
people's views on death.

------
amerika_blog
That's a noble quest.

It seems to me that the intelligent, sensitive and wise are the ones who kill
themselves.

The blockhead, self-entitled, criminal, etc. never seem to.

------
ekianjo
"Japan suicide rate is an enigma"

Not so much.

------
vonskippy
"Rene Duignan is passionate about life"

No, he's passionate about control.

Where do people get off telling others what they can and can't do with their
life. Who better then the ACTUAL PERSON to decide when and if it's the right
time to call it quits (for whatever reason - once again it's nobody elses
business on the why).

With 7 billion people and counting, why are people making such a big deal when
someone decides their time on the ride called "human life" should be over. For
most, there is little choice, you live, then you die. For some, they would
rather take personal control over the when. Why is that a bad thing?

The world has turned into a huge nanny - butting into the smallest of things
that should remain completely in control of the individual.

Over the last 12 years, twice I've fought with cancer and won (or at least had
it declared a tie) but you can bet that I have a exit plan in hand (and yes,
that includes taking care of the people I'll leave behind). Withering away in
excruciating pain is not for me (does that make me weak? a coward? or just
prudent in deciding how I WANT to end MY LIFE).

~~~
bofh69
On the other hand there are plenty of people who are depressed, tries to kill
themselves, survives and are later happy to be alive, in those cases it would
be a bad thing if they had succeeded. It is such suicides that most people try
to prevent when they are talking about preventing suicides.

