
The Stupidity of Windows 8 in a Nutshell - BinaryAcid
http://www.singularityhacker.com/post/64913226184/the-stupidity-of-windows-8-in-a-nutshell
======
daigoba66
Okay. So I've been using Windows 8 nearly every working day for the past year.
I'm a programmer, multi-monitor user, and a "power-user". And how do I use
Windows 8? Pretty much exactly as I used Windows 7. I've never used a "metro"
app outside of playing with a few on day one. The learning curve was
insignificant given my many years of experience using all sorts of different
computers and operating systems.

So am I less productive now using Windows 8 than I was using Windows 7? Not at
all. However I'm also no more productive than I was. Which is disappointing in
way: many of the previous OS revisions have seen huge gains in usability and
productivity (2000 -> XP -> Vista -> 7). But not this one.

But even though the changes in Windows 8 haven't affected my day-to-day
productivity, there are plenty of annoyances that I've learned to live with.
Such as:

\- Start menu search is nearly unusable in Windows 8 despite the
"improvements" in 8.1.

\- Metro UI "leaks" in some places such as Outlook notifications, and the Open
With -> Other dialog. Though that open-with dialog gets worse in every Windows
revision.

\- Before 8.1 the charms bar and hot-corners sometimes got in the way.

Edit, more comments:

So why upgrade? It's probably safe to say that being on the most up-to-date
stable version of any OS is ideal for any number of reasons ranging from
security, platform features, and general "future-proofing" of the software you
use.

~~~
rlu
As a multi monitor user doesn't Win8 provide a much better experience over
Win7? Not saying this alone is worth an upgrade, but IIRC it's definitely
better in a "would make you more productive" way

~~~
flipchart
One great feature of it is that it puts a start bar on every monitor (not just
your primary monitor) which makes switching between programs much easier. For
some reason though they decided not to put the task area (which has the clock,
etc.) on each start bar though, only the primary monitor.

------
freehunter
Stupidity? Stupidity is people making criticisms without actually using the
product they're criticizing.

>Treat the Metro UI and desktop as different modes and encourage developers to
build applications that work on both. When you’re interacting with windows
from a tablet switch into metro mode. When you’re using windows from a desktop
with a mouse switch into desktop mode.

This happens today. It's called... Windows 8. My desktop boots to the desktop
and I only use desktop applications with it. My tablet boots to Metro and I
use a lot of Metro apps with it. This is a thing that exists today. The
regular size tiles are about the same size as a desktop shortcut is (ie, not
too big for a mouse). The larger size tiles are _more useful_ than a static
icon, since they show you data without needing to launch the app.

Here's the big rub with Windows 8: people are complaining that it's worse,
when in reality it's just different. Especially in Windows 8.1, where some of
the things that _were_ worse are now corrected. It's been two years of this
"Windows 8 is a failure" bullshit. People are still using it. PCs are still
being sold. Work is still getting done. The world is still spinning. When are
we going to find something else to complain about?

~~~
therobot24
on a side note, windows 8.1 makes windows 8 look like a failure...the
difference in terms of response and functionality is ridiculous

~~~
freehunter
Yup - there were some growing pains associated with such a big change. The
first versions of Windows after they switched from DOS were pretty painful,
too. I don't think the desktop became useful until Windows 3.1.

------
4rt
... ignoring the fact that you can have multiple metro apps on screen just
like with any other tiling window manager.

i think there's a good argument that manually micro-managing the sizes and
positions of overlapping windows (some of which can additionally be
application or system modal) is a waste of time and gives few benefits.

whilst the metro apps are all pretty cut down at the moment - and there's a
lot of work to do before it can viably replace the old desktop - i have no
real issue with this as the direction of progress.

~~~
phr4ts
After years of windows bashing, Microsoft seems is trying to correct it's
security nightmare past.

Security is a higher priority than functionality right now (from observation).
Until they can get a way to secure windows apps without hampering
functionality, we will always have both desktop and metro mode living
together.

------
davidblueit
The surface shows that microsoft, rightly or wrongly, have a different idea
about where the whole mobile / desktop vision may converge. it's not a
desktop, laptop nor a tablet and, for all the shit it gets, quite refreshing
and innovative. metro UI also works very well on it, as it does with
touchscreen laptops

~~~
MrDosu
Personally I bought a surface just because i wanted to be able to play old
games on it, but turns out now i use it as: A standalone desktop replacement
with a blutooth keyboard/mouse combo (seperate keyboard on a mobile device is
heaven). Replacement for note taking with the wacom digitizer. An on the move
gaming console for even modern games (blutooth game controller + steam) A
picture frame on the coffee table that tracks all messenging applications
(only need to look to the side, not go for the cellphone everytime something
updates)

------
dragontamer
\--- Tim Cook could not have said it better when he summarized Microsoft’s
confusion. “..they’re trying to make PCs into tablets and tablets into PCs.”

What was the first criticism of smartphones that I heard? They're trying to
take PDAs into Cell Phones, and trying to turn Phones into PDAs.

Its like these bloggers can't even imagine a new model of computing. Converged
computing is the future. A single device that does more than previous devices
is easier to carry, centralizes management and simplifies your life. I frankly
prefer the Surface Pro over any of the tablets that exist today.

When you have a keyboard / mouse, then _TYPE_ on the start screen. You know,
the auto-search feature? The Start Screen is one of the best keyboard-
interfaces I've ever used.

~~~
gabemart
> When you have a keyboard / mouse, then TYPE on the start screen. You know,
> the auto-search feature? The Start Screen is one of the best keyboard-
> interfaces I've ever used.

For me, the problem is that, on the desktop or laptop, the Start Screen uses
100% of my screen real estate for a task (typing a search query, hitting
enter) that would be _better_ performed with, at most, 10% of my screen real
estate. Having a full-screen dialogue pop up for a trivial task is horrible
for maintaining flow.

~~~
dragontamer
You know, leaving your current program and starting up a new program is
horrible for maintaining flow as well. But lets be frank here: you're entering
the start screen because you're starting up a new program.

Its not like your programs disappear when the start screen pops up ya know.
Its all there...

~~~
gabemart
> You know, leaving your current program and starting up a new program is
> horrible for maintaining flow

I don't "leave" my current program to open a new one. I can have more than one
program open at the same time. Many (most?) programs do not open in full
screen.

------
AshleysBrain
I always thought Microsoft were crowbarring their mobile UI in to the desktop
system not because it was a good idea, but to gain familiarity. If all Windows
users are familiar with the Tile UI, they might then be more comfortable
getting a Windows phone or tablet - areas MS need all the help they can get.

On the other hand though touchscreen laptops and desktops are gradually
becoming more common, so the fat-finger UI of the start screen tiles can work
for that as well.

------
josefresco
When I saw Windows 7 I thought I knew where Microsoft was heading. I saw the
new task bar with it's "finger friendly" buttons and thought to myself "MS is
slowly integrating touch into their interface....makes sense.".

However between awesome Windows 7 and the mess that is Windows 8 something
must have happened. Someone inside MS must have preaching that you can't
simply make Windows touch friendly. They must have argued for a dedicated
touch interface, one that would be made more powerful with each release so as
to eventually phase out the "old" windows interface for good.

This approach I feel is wrong, and the disjointed effort in Windows 8 is
demonstrating how confused it's making both "regular users" and tech pros
alike.

I wish MS stayed focused on their traditional OS model and made Windows 7 even
better with Win8. The "touch OS" from Microsoft could then have been born, and
evolved on it's own without having to carry the burden of 3 decades of general
computing.

~~~
phr4ts
Windows 8..n can be bad and good.

It's awful when used on old hardware - just like vista.

It's sweet when ur using hardware that supports it fully. 1. Gesture aware
trackpad 2. Touch screen

These are very important, without them, windows 8 will hell. i've been there,
hated it until I got gesture sensitive mouse. I'm sure touch screen will do
wonders.

~~~
phr4ts
phr4ts what's the down-vote for?

Conduct a poll and u'll see that alot of those who dislike win 8 the most are
on old hardware.

~~~
freehunter
You could be getting downvotes for your grammar, which makes your point hard
to understand. You do make a valid point that Windows 8 is better on hardware
that was designed for the new input methods.

~~~
phr4ts
ha ha ha ha ha. Down-votes for grammar. Some trigger happy bastard that could
be policing anti-microsoft comments.

Since there's nothing anti-Microsoft here, he's deciding to check grammar.
Lovely! Downvote this one too.

------
scrabble
_We need large icons in the context of mobile computing because we’re using
our fingers and our fingers are fat. You don’t need giant tiles when you’re
using the tiny curser of the mouse._

Or perhaps Microsoft is actually forward thinking here and is considering that
touch is becoming a more popular interface even on laptop. If you are
designing a new UI now to cover the next 5 years, it seems like a good idea to
take this into account.

 _Why would I be forced into a full screen view on a 20-inch monitor? The only
reason applications are full screen on mobile devices is that it is assumed
that screen real estate is small. Microsoft is indeed very confused._

I also believe you can have two Metro apps beside each other. But aside from
that, I took a quick look at my setup and all my applications are full screen
except for the Command Prompt instance I have open.

------
kyoji
I love Windows 8. At first the separate "Desktop" and "Metro" environments are
confusing, but once you realize you can go into desktop mode and stay there
while utilizing all the new utility offered by the interface (Windows + Q
anyone? It's a more robust version of Spotlight) the whole thing clicks and
becomes a real joy to use.

I believe 90% of the backlash is from people who have never used Windows 8, or
gave it literally 30 seconds of use in Best Buy then came home to post online
about it.

Give it a real shot, its fun!

~~~
phr4ts
Microsoft caused the confusion by not adding a tutorial. I suggested it during
windows 8 developer preview but they ignored it.

Their current tutorial still doesn't cut it but it's a step in the right
direction.

------
brudgers
What Windows 8 [and Windows Phone] do really well, is keep shit from piling
up. By making the icons big, there's less room to save another icon to the
desktop/home_screen. And applications don't get to place stuff there by
default.

Having run Windows Phone for two years, and my new Android phone for less than
a month, the Android homescreen is already more disordered than the Windows
device - and despite my more active management. And please don't ask me how
many useless icons are on the classic desktop of my under the desk box. It's
too many to count and I don't care enough to clean it all up. I hate filing.
It's the sort of clerical work that we shouldn't be doing here in 1973.

The second screen on both Windows 8 and Windows Phone shows everything in a
simple text based scrolling list. It's fucking genius - the idea of using
words to organize things with names rather than hieroglyphics.

This of course begs for the question of why Android rather than WP8 for the
new phone. The answer is that as much reading as I do, the phablet form factor
made the sale. If there were still Windows Phones with keyboards like my old
Dell Venue Pro, I'd still be on Windows Phone. But there aren't so I ain't.

~~~
freehunter
I agree with you mostly, but I do have a complaint about the all programs list
in Windows 8.1. For some reason, I still find it difficult to actually parse
the list of all applications. The titles of the program groupings don't stand
out well to my eyes, and it gets impossible to read with a lot of things
installed. I tend to just use the search rather than trying to pick something
out of the list.

I agree on Android vs Windows Phone. I'm currently pulling double duty between
a Nexus 4 and a Lumia 920, and I'm looking at a Nexus 5 for my next phone.
Lord knows I love my Windows Phone, but I really want a 5" phone next. I was
disappointed when Nokia announced the 1320 as a 6" screen and a huge case. The
1520 may be an acceptable size for my hands, but the $750 price tag is too
much for me to justify.

See, this is the type of conversation I was hoping to have after the recent
Nokia event, until all of the articles were inexplicably pulled from HN.

~~~
phr4ts
Your argument about grouping is valid.

Solution, search for your most used programs, right click and pin to start
screen or taskbar.

------
MrDosu
I dont get why people think about the new start menu as a replacement of the
old one. It's more like they buffed up the Alt+Tab functionality to include
openin programs and search into a single feature. Old start menu is gone and
not needed any more. Can't think of a single use case.

------
rlu
The real vision though for Windows I think is probably summarized with Surface
Pro + Surface dock.

I'm way too tired to explain why Windows 8 is a good idea - _in the long run_.
But if you browse through my comment history I think I've explained it a few
times. Probably from ~1 year ago

------
ChikkaChiChi
Metro UI would have been brilliant had it been the replacement for wallpaper
on your Windows desktop. I still can't believe that there isn't a single
modern operating system that I can natively add HTML5 components to my bottom-
most layer.

------
twodayslate
How is this on the front page of hacker news? Nothing in the article was new,
revolutionary, or interesting. The author threw a recent quote in the article
to make his point relevant.

------
ader277
Windows 8 is made to use with touchscreen monitors ! so the argument of this
guy is just stupid.

