
Ask HN: A martial art for a programmer - micrypt
Dear HNers,<p>I fairly recently started kendō and I find it helps with building character (especially regarding dealing with pressure in my case). I'm curious about what aspects of which martial arts that others have found particularly beneficial to life as a programmer/software developer.
======
ryanelkins
I study Krav Maga. I prefer a practical self defense oriented approach. It is
the system developed by and taught to the Israeli military. Moves are
generally very simple (important so you can be effective without years of
training). The problem with pretty much all other martial arts everyone is
mentioning is that they have morphed to work ideally in a competitive
environment. Sure, knowing just about any martial art will give you a huge
advantage against someone who isn't skilled but there are alot of things
people just don't train for with BJJ, Tae Kwon Do, etc.

For example, one of the first things we learned is defending yourself from
various holds and chokes. The first move, after securing your throat or
loosening their grip is generally to hit them in the balls. This is one
example of something most martial arts won't teach you because that's
generally "against the rules", however, in a self defense scenario, there are
no rules (there are however laws that you may break so keep that in mind).

You really want to avoid going to the ground if at all possible. It just makes
you more vulnerable if anyone else decides to jump in and you never know what
you're rolling around on. Besides, what are you going to do, put someone in a
submission until help arrives? A really effective way to break a hold is to
grab their pinky and twist it in a direction it doesn't want to go. If they
don't let go just move on to new fingers. Also, feel free to bite them. Hard.
You can also pull hair, gouge eyes, fishhook, etc. It's great to know how to
defend yourself on the ground, but you want to be on the ground as little as
possible as it can be a dangerous place because your opponent is probably not
playing under the same rules you are.

If you want more of a philosophy then it's probably not right for you. This is
pretty much just about winning fights when it matters the most.

~~~
joe_the_user
I've studied a couple martial arts and had brief introductions to a number of
others (Systema and Qi Dao are the two I've done for a while).

Every art I've seen teaches getting out of holds first because it is something
a novice can do pretty easily with some understanding of technique.

I've also been hit in the balls during sparing matches a number of times. It's
not the decisive hit many imagine. In fact, a strong solar plexis shot was
much more effective in my personal experience.

A lot of "real world" martial arts teach about "disabling" shots that their
practitioners never get to seriously try because they are, at least intended
to be, truly crippling.

Yet that means that in the "real world", when assaulted, you are trying to do
something you've never previously done in the same fashion.

For that reason, I think that "competition" based martial arts certainly can
be at least as good for "real world" defense. The tactics used in MMA matches
would work good in the real world - with the proviso to avoid fights and avoid
the ground as much as possible.

If anyone wants to debate these issues in gruesome detail, look at
<http://bullshido.net> . There's plenty of attitude there but it's a group of
folks who've worked pretty hard sorting out bs from effective martial arts.

~~~
kingkongreveng_
> when assaulted, you are trying to do something

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." \--Mike Tyson

~~~
joe_the_user
Actually, that's another problem with a lot of martial arts that teach
particular actions for particular situations. One's ability to remember an
complex technique or even a simple move in the middle of a conflict somewhat
... hampered.

Of course, any serious martial art is going to teach stance, balance, "flow",
and state of mind as well as particular techniques. The applies to all the
arts I've had minimal exposure to: BJJ, Muy Thai, Tai Chi, Aikido. I don't
know if this applies to Krav Maga or not - I can only know what the KM people
talk about. I'm skeptical of any "too deadly except for da streets" rhetoric
from anyone.

------
praptak
Depends on what kind of programmer you are. If you do a lot of concurrent
programming in C++ then chainsaw fencing should be right for you. An advanced
Lisp programmer can practice blasting opponents with pure Chi energy.

~~~
gilesbowkett235
I recommend chainsaw nunchucks over chainsaw fencing. It's a personal
preference.

~~~
praptak
Ah, the multithreaded assembly programmers who use self-modifying code for
synchronization. Sorry about having forgotten about you guys.

------
robg
I wouldn't have made it through grad school without Shotokan Karate
(<http://www.ska.org/>). It helps that they're non-profit, so you know you're
learning and not just paying for belts. Plus, they have very intense "Special
trainings" around the country at different points in the year. They're a great
organization.

While it's easy for some to dismiss "mystical" aspects, look at the real world
applications. If you suffer from "pressure" that could be a moderate form of
anxiety. A great combat to the parasympathetic response? Breathing.

Watch what happens when you get punched in the gut. Your immediate, initially
uncontrollable desire is to blindly fight like hell or turn and run. Keeping a
calm head takes practice to overcome the rush of hormones. Breathing slows the
heart and tempers the response. It's the same reason elite athletes,
especially runners, know the power of proper breathing.

I tend to think many mystical aspects had some physiological root that then
got adulterated over time. Breathing as the route to relaxation is first on my
list.

------
edw519
I prefer training for martial arts over martial arts themselves.

I do dands (Hindu pushups) and bethaks (Hindu squats) almost every day.

Want to build character? Do 500 bethaks. Your quads will be screaming, begging
you to stop at 200, 300, even 400. But you keep going. Because you know that
as soon as you stop, you gave up too easily. But once you finish, you can do
anything. Eerily similar to starting a software business.

~~~
dood
_But once you finish, you can do anything_

Except walk. Kidding aside, I agree these are great exercises to get the blood
going. I need to get back into practice!

------
sgdesign
I would say Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You can make good progress very quickly, it's
a lot of fun, can be very demanding physically (but doesn't always have to)
and is called "chess on the mat" which should appeal to a programmer's
analytical minds. Plus, there's a ton of BJJ ressources on the net and the
community is very active.

~~~
robg
I really enjoyed BJJ for the short time I tried it. The problem is I could
easily see overpaying for it, with poor teachers, in the current MMA context.
My other concern is that it's more grappling than contact, which seems less
practical. I had a strong background in wrestling (4 years) and Karate (5
years) by that point. I really liked it, but I'm not sure it's right for a
beginner.

~~~
wyclif
_My other concern is that it's more grappling than contact_

Grappling isn't contact?

~~~
robg
Poor choice of words. At that distance, you don't know what happens, and how
to respond, when your bell gets rung.

~~~
scott_s
Then also do MMA ground-and-pound drills if that concerns you. I find my BJJ
base (purple belt) helps immensely when I have someone in my guard trying to
punch me in the face.

~~~
robg
In practical circumstances, I don't know why I'd willingly go to the ground,
especially against someone bigger (and usually that's what bullies are). And I
say that as a former wrestler.

~~~
starkfist
All martial artists know from extensive research on internet forums, that 99%
of street fights go to the ground.

~~~
jeromec
Very true. Martial arts have different beneficial aspects, but if your only
concern is winning street fights, from my understanding all you really have to
do is become an accomplished boxer and wrestler.

------
stummjr
I think Aikido is a very good option, not only to programmers, but to all the
people. It's a martial art which is meant to preserve the integrity of both
players. Both mental and body health are the main concerns of this martial
art.

~~~
nazgulnarsil
god I hate the "peaceful warrior" crap pushed by certain practitioners of
aikido. Osensei tells us that the best way to start an aiki is to belt someone
in the face. traditional aikido teaches both striking while the opponent is
pinned down and completing the movement of joint locks to break bones. most
easily understood: would aikido teach the katana if it wasn't about inflicting
harm? how many non-lethal cutting techniques do you know?

~~~
viae
O'Sensei's thought and style evolved throughout his life. In his younger days,
pre-WWII, yes, he was rough and tumble. Movements were sharper and more
direct. Break bones, crush your enemy. He did this frequently while in the
Japanese military while serving in China as a bodyguard.

As he grew older, post-WWII, his philosophy and style became much softer and
more spiritual than the styles he studied in his younger days. This was due,
in part, to his age (changing perspective and physical decline) and the
influence of the Omoto-kyo. In these later days, the purpose of training with
weapons were twofold: help students learn body dynamics and learn to defend
oneself against an armed attacker. The purpose wasn't to be armed and gut your
enemies, the purpose was to understand the mindset of an armed aggressor, know
their movements, and meet their movements without being gutted yourself.

~~~
neilk
Softer in the sense of not attacking directly as much, but still dangerous.

I've heard (second-hand) a story about a high-level practitioner who got to
spar with O-Sensei and at times he felt like he might not survive.

------
dylanz
Wing Chun. Shortest attacks from point A to point B. Get the issue over with
fast. No fancy kicks or meta moves. You train in what you wear everyday. It
also has an amazing history. Unlike Karate which has hard movements, like most
forms of Gung Fu, it all revolves around flowing, snapping and potential
energy.

Beautiful, but pragmatic.

~~~
antoineleclair
I've been practicing Wing Chun for 5 years now, and I must say it's probably
the martial art that would suit a programmer mind the best.

Very logic, geometric.

It's a lot like C. Not so many basic "constructs" (no "batteries included"),
but you can combine the basics to do powerful stuff.

------
jeromec
Growing up we watched tons of martial art related shows because they "looked
cool", but while my brothers took some courses I never did (I was teaching
myself BASIC). Being older and seeing life a bit differently I see martial
arts differently as well. I stumbled across a new show where I was surprised
to see childhood action-hero Steven Seagal as a real sheriff. It's a good
example to me of the real, rather than tv side, of martial arts, and I'd
probably study Aikido if I got into something. Check this out:
[http://www.aetv.com/steven-seagal-
lawman/video/?bcpid=468810...](http://www.aetv.com/steven-seagal-
lawman/video/?bcpid=46881070001&bclid=36527476001&bctid=62686404001)

~~~
meunierc
I second Aikido for a software developer martial art. It requires no physical
force to apply techniques and control opponents (if you're a big burly guy
your learning of Aikido will actually be hampered because the technique will
work even if you don't do it properly), which is probably what you want if
you're of average programmer build.

If you like attacking, Aikido is not for you though. The movements are
strictly defensive.

------
Confusion
Though not entirely an answer to the question: I've never found any aspect of
my martial art of choice (jiu-jitsu) particularly beneficial to my life as a
software developer. At most, I think practicing sports helps to keep a healthy
body as the counterpart to a healthy mind. In general, I think there are
principles of martial arts that can serve as adequate analogies to principles
in software engineering (know your tools, be aware of your enemies, use the
path of the least resistance, practice makes perfect, it pays to broaden your
skills, ...) but knowledge and understanding of those principles is not bound
to actually practicing them.

------
jff
I used to do kendo and loved it. I tried taking a kung fu course for a phys.
ed. requirement at college and hated it.

Martial arts are not some magical thing you do; this isn't anime, people.
They're just highly refined methods of bringing the hurt to someone.

Kendo was very good exercise; the time we did 1,200 suburi for the new year
(100 per month) was quite the workout. I regret dropping it due to schedule
problems. However much I enjoyed it, though, I don't really think it conferred
any special advantages to me as an engineer compared to any other form of
exercise.

------
kschua
I can only speak for the Chinese Martial Art I have trained and been exposed
to - Wing Chun and Choy Li Futt. It is now a way of life for me. Primarily, I
am a Wing Chun practitioner.

If you are using the Agile methodology, Wing Chun would be good. It emphasizes
1) adapting to change - This is especially true in the second form "Chum Kil"
which transition from one position to another 2) least wastage - punch is a
straight line to the target 3) cooperation to achieve a single target - a
punch in Wing Chun is the utilization of the powers of your leg, hips, torso,
shoulder, elbow transferred to the fist 4) getting immediate feedback - the
chi sao (sticking hands) exercise trains you to be sensitive and look for
places to enter 5) respect of difference of opinions - a tan sao can be used
as to defend or attack depending on the person

If your SDLC is a waterfall method, try Choy Li Futt. Things I learned from
this are 1) Commitment to a set of combination early - I have combos in Choy
Li Futt which I carry through all the way, regardless of what the opponent
does. The decision of what to do is made after assessing the situation (aka
requirements gathering) and before the first strike

2) Using a different approach to a problem - My favorite strikes from this
style is the spinning elbow and using the forearm as a striking weapon

The primary difference to me is that Choy Li Futt is a brute force solution to
a problem and Wing Chun depends more on an algorithm to resolve the problem

Good luck!

------
wushupork
I think any martial arts taken seriously is good for you. You realize that
mastery comes w/ only years of practice and don't develop that short
sightedness of thinking you will hit a homerun on your first time (competing).
My martial arts training has tempered my own patience. If I get impatient as
to why I am not getting something already, I go back to what I tell my own
students: If you haven't done it a 1000 times yet, it's ok that it's not great
yet, don't be frustrated. Practice practice practice.

~~~
fallintothis
Agreed.

I find martial arts discussions funny. More often than not it's a bunch of
people arguing over which one is the "best" in a "real-world fight", which
usually degrades into arguments over what "real-world fights" are like,
because none of them has ever actually _been_ in one. But it's pretty silly: I
know I'd have fun in _any_ martial art right now. If I wanted to know how to
fight someone for real, I'd study some form of military combat.

------
bjelkeman-again
I went back to classic karate after a really long brake, Okinawan Goju-Ryu
Karate, and it is really making a big difference to my life. Goju-Ryu is quite
physical in the training, which means that most training passes give you a
really good workout.

There are a number of things which I find particularly beneficial to my work
(I am not programmer as such, but a founder of an internet services startup),
some fairly obvious:

\- It is great to be forced to use another part of the brain regularly, my
body may be tired but my head is less tired after each training pass, it is
like an energy injection

\- I am physically much fitter now, 15 months after I started, this may be
obvious, but it makes a big difference to how much work I can do and how well
I feel

\- my wife tells me I don't stall or give up so easily anymore when I have
more work to do, particularly stuff at home

\- I am forced to leave work on training days (I work from home) and not stay
and, ineffectively, trying to get more done. I feel like I am more effective,
despite the hours that go to training and commuting back and forth to the dojo

\- I have no back problems or issues with circulation in my legs anymore, I
tend to spend a lot of time sitting working, this is great

My club and the particular style I practise doesn't put much emphasis on
competition (it is actually discouraged) which means that there is a really
helpful, non-macho, atmosphere at the dojo. Everybody is very helpful and the
training really becomes about self improvement rather than trying to be better
than the others. It helps that we have some really excellent trainers as well.
The head of the club is well respected internationally for his work.
<http://www.iogkf.se/>

------
ivan_ah
I really like this thread for its information content about different styles.
I have a few general comments:

\- The school/teacher is much more important than the style. Make sure you
find a teacher than is not profit oriented or arrogant. Signs of a bad
teacher: has his face on the wall, has his name on the school, won't talk to
you when you visit, tolerates bad attitude amongst his students.

\- Martial-arts is essentially applied classical mechanics. Leverage, angle,
distance, bone structure, hip turning... make sure people explain this to you
instead of talking about tigers, praying mantii or age old traditions.

\- practice horse stance on your own: it's the shit !
<http://images.google.ca/images?q=horse+stance>

\- I highly recommend wing chun kung fu. You learn a few basic moves and then
you can combine them like lego pieces. Check out these doods controlling the
space in front of them in a RELAXED manner:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFuqC6CTKV8>

------
scorpioxy
Karate(shotokan) made me more disciplined and taught me to endure pain. That
comes in handy in dealing with a dumb boss, a nagging client, or any of the
overall suck-y conditions we work with everyday.

Also, sparring amazingly taught me to control my thoughts to achieve a certain
goal. So it helps when chasing bugs to clear your mind and organize your
thoughts.

Sadly, i don't practice anymore.

------
Fook
Have a look at Wing Chun Kung Fu. Amazingly complicated and deep. Every move
is defence and attack at the same time using minimum energy, quite relevant
nowadays.

~~~
Keyframe
Another vote for Wing Chun for being great. I trained several martial arts in
my youth and here are my thoughts on some of them that I have at least some
experience with.

\- Taekwondo (and karate styles) - do them if you're in it for sport factor.
They are mostly based on "hard style" which means physical training,
repetition, power and endurance.

\- Wing Chun - Excellent kung fu MA and probably the easiest to get into
(Wushu being the oposite and acrobatic). Great ROI on time invested and no
need for hard training.

\- Jiu Jitsu - excellent complementary MA for kung fu styles (like wing chun
or wushu) since they are considered "weak" on the floor.

\- Shorinji Kempo - probably the most balanced MA out of them all I've seen
(I'll explain later)

\- Kenjutsu - if you'd like to train with the sword :)

What you have to realize though is that you're not in it to be a ninja or
whatever, you'll not fight anyone on the streets flying all over and shooting
power orbs (right?), so you have to ask yourself what you'd like to train for.

As a fellow that sits around computers for long times I recommend one of
these:

a) \- Qigong - this is the base for everything, you will feel health benefits
from it and geenrally feel more power flowing through you. If you can pick
only one do this. Wing Chun is 99% accompanied with Qigong (also sometimes
called Chi gung, kung) practice.

you can accompany Qigong with either Wing Chun (and Jiu Jitsu) if you want to
train to be a competent defensive fighter or you can substitute Wing Chun with
Tai Chi (Chuan) which is basically a battle version of Qigong so you can train
only Tai Chi.

or b)

\- train Shorinji Kempo and accompany it with Qigong

I also hear rather good things about Aikido and Hapkido, but I have no
exposure to them.

------
christonog
I think any martial art is beneficial as the very nature forces you to stop
thinking about programming. I've personally chosen Muay Thai as it puts
special emphasis on physical conditioning, and I tend to work best not
stressing (or thinking about) how I'm going to get my day's exercise.

~~~
ghfdrvtsyup
I agree. The idea that a martial art can help with programming is a bit of a
carryover from when they were considered 'mystical' or 'dangerous' in the mid-
late 1970s/early 1980s. Having studied a few and wrestled in HS, I would agree
that the real benefit they have is taking your mind off of work, getting
exercise, and beating people up/getting beat up. It's _fun_ , and that's what
exercise should be.

So, do what you want and work hard at it. Don't try to think there's any
mystical connection between the body and mind that a martial art can help
cultivate.

~~~
vitovito
I went looking for the same thing and found it hard to separate the philosophy
(and, with certain martial arts like wing chun, the internal politicizing) and
history of the art from the practice of it. I found I wanted something deeper
to be there, and there wasn't.

I occasionally row, and instead I did boxing for a while, and with both my
focus was on form and mechanics over physical conditioning (yes, there's lots
of form in boxing). The "exercise" is a natural outgrown of the deliberate
practice.

I didn't work up enough physical conditioning that they let me spar, but I
intend to go back for it.

------
peterwwillis
i have no idea how martial arts would help my programming other than some kind
of meditation-centric art (shaolin?). i do arnis/eskrima, which are philipino
martial arts. the hand to hand is similar to muay thai but a little more focus
on defense like locks. the stick fighting is neat because your reflexes
improve and you learn how to move (good for sparring). i imagine most weapons
classes would be good to sharpen your hand-eye coordination.

------
ieure
Just like it's important to learn multiple languages to be a well-rounded
programmer, you should train in multiple styles of martial arts to become a
well-rounded fighter.

I recommend kickboxing for learning fundamentals of open-hand stand up
fighting, Sambo or BJJ for ground fighting, and Filipino martial arts
(Kali/Arnis/Eskrima) for weapons and to tie it all together. Wing Chun fits in
nicely as well, and JKD is worth your time too.

I echo the sentiments of the people who say it's less about the style than the
teacher. A good teacher will expose you to outside concepts. A good teacher
will teach you to be practical and not flashy. I strongly recommend you focus
on practicality. Always ask yourself, "how will this actually help me if I
have to defend myself?" I've seen practitioners of certain styles get
completely taken down because they were not taught to be practical - nothing
to do with the style per se, but they didn't have good teachers. In
particular, I recall a Tae Kwan Do fighter try to use spinning kicks while
sparring. As soon as he started to turn his back, his opponent simply stepped
forward and kicked him in the balls from behind.

Value practicality over all else.

------
nazgulnarsil
doesn't matter as long as there is sparring. martial arts without sparring is
a dance class. martial arts with sparring is an unmissable experience.

~~~
robg
I agree completely, especially free sparring with few rules. Getting punched
(or kicked) is an important experience to have and understand. The
parasympathetic response is so powerful, the only way to truly understand it
is to go through it.

------
elblanco
Doesn't really matter. Pick a few that interest you and try them out for a
month. Try at least two different schools for each style. Saying Tien Shan Pai
sucks and Liu He Ba Fa rocks, makes no sense. It's just whatever works for
you. I know a guy that was absolutely in love with Hsing Yi Quan, had studied
it for 20 years. I found it intolerably boring. Tang Lang on the other hand
was a blast.

A lot of it depends on the vibe of the school as well. That's why I say try a
couple.

If you want to ground and pound, and that's what gets you off, try a bit of
some grappling styles. BJJ is ok, but depending on where you live there's
probably some modern style schools you can give a go at also (usually some
combo of Muay Thai and some kind of grappling).

If you want to enjoy something with a long history, and steep yourself in the
culture, try some kind of Kung Fu style. I find Chinese styles exercise
different parts of the brain I don't use as much for engineering and actually
can be very relaxing. Most of it is highly impractical in a modern setting,
but it's like studying painting or calligraphy or some such.

If you want to be tightly disciplined, Japanese styles, with their strict
emphasis on form, ceremony and procedure can be highly enjoyable. I liked my
brief study of Shotokan for just that reason, it allowed me to turn off the
self-discipline for a bit and let something else take charge.

If you want something you can maybe take to high levels of sport and
competition, Tae Kwon Do is probably the place to go. There are a bajillion
TKD places around, so choose wisely. Lots of them will be belt-mills selling
personal fitness more than the Olympic sport. Try to find a school with lots
of Korean students.

But there are others, off the beaten path you can try and have fun with too
like Escrima or Capoeira.

------
lmkg
If you're not concerned with practicality at all, Capoiera is worth a look.
It's a much slower martial art (especially Angola), and tends to focus more on
prediction and setting the other player up. How movements flow into each other
is a significant consideration as well. I wouldn't ever use it in a fight. But
it's more approachable as a casual interest.

------
keefe
I studied karate for years. I would recommend finding something with a strong
heritage to traditional martial arts - this is more important than style, you
should be able to trace the lineage of your teachers back to someone notable.
[http://www.amazon.com/Moving-Zen-Journey-Bushido-
Warrior/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Moving-Zen-Journey-Bushido-
Warrior/dp/4770027559/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267389123&sr=8-1) this
is a nice book regarding this topic. I personally would recommend tai chi or
karate over kendo. imho, kendo is not exactly practical these days, it tends
to be a bit stuffy for me and in most karate schools you will get weapons
training after you advance far enough.

------
mml
Taekwondo. Lacks mystical energy crap, and is practical.

~~~
robg
I don't know. It's always seemed more about point scoring. When we practiced
against advanced students, they relied too much on kicks which aren't very
practical against anyone who knows to move in. The sparring is too controlled.
Plus, in real life you aren't wearing padding.

That's just my take. But then I think _some_ of the mystical "crap" has a
physiological basis. How many of us breathe deeply?

~~~
mrkurt
The reality is that most people don't need or have much use for practical
fighting skills, they need practical running skills.

Modern Taekwondo is a _sport_ and it can be great fun. If you can find a good
school that isn't just a belt factory, it's well worth doing. Particularly if
they teach a little Hapkido on the side.

~~~
christonog
When you're in a confrontation, there's either fight or flight. The
practitioners of parkour consider it a martial art in that it represents the
"flight" aspect.

------
dzlobin
Not a martial art exactly but I would say fencing without a doubt. It's like
physical chess

~~~
elmindreda
It is a martial art; it's just not an Asian martial art.

~~~
dspeyer
Swordfighting is a [set of] martial art[s]. Fencing is a sport. Unless you
find a teacher who's interested in things like targetting vulnerable spots,
putting power behind a strike and maintaining defense after a point is scored.

------
Mentat_Enki
Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. Practical and Powerful. Great lineage. Check it out.

------
yummyfajitas
I'd recommend Eskrima/Kali (Philipino martial arts) if you can find a teacher
near you. Eskrima builds strong and flexible wrists in a way that most other
arts don't.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rckWVZl_GsA>

Another reason I prefer Philipino martial arts to Japanese arts is that the
latter tends to be rigid and emphasize gatekeeping. When I studied Kendo, the
attitude was "level up before we let you spar". In contrast, I got my ass
whooped one month into Eskrima. (Obviously this is also highly dependent on
the teacher.)

------
coryl
My vote is for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (Gi or No Gi), Boxing, or Kickboxing (Muay
thai).

I think BJJ will especially appeal to the nerd in you, I'm not sure why, but
it does. The awesome thing about BJJ is you don't need to be very athletic to
be good. Its also a very practical art and you'll get to spar everyday. In
terms of self development, BJJ will crush your soul and teach you what your
ego is all about. The BJJ journey is just a rewarding and frustrating as the
startup journey, and you'll never stop learning new techniques and things
about yourself. Good luck

------
peterbe
All of you Kung Fu people should come and join <http://kungfupeople.com> Built
(Django, Python) by a programmer and a technical project manager.

------
barmstrong
As others have mentioned BJJ because... 1\. A weaker opponent can take down a
much stronger/bigger one using leverage and his mind 2\. It's comparable to
chess or a mental sport

For a striking example of #1 see this video where Royce Gracie (6'1" 180 lbs)
defeats Legendary Sumo Grand Champion Akebono (6'8" 486 lbs) using BJJ. I
can't imagine that being possible with any other style of martial arts.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJ2T023M4I>

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a-priori
I've studied a couple martial arts in various amounts: Judo, Kendo, Tae Kwon
Do, and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. All are interesting in their own ways, but I
recommend Judo and BJJ... or Kendo if you need to vent by beating people with
sticks :)

In fact, I would say to try Judo and see what you like about it. If you like
the throwing, then stick with Judo. If you like the grappling (which
unfortunately, sport Judo mostly lacks these days...) then switch to BJJ.

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oscardelben
For me personally martial arts helps to build a character which in turn may
help you grow as a programmer, but that's an effect of growing as a person. I
practice sanda which is similar to muai thai but there are many other arts
which focus more on the inner side, and you can gain a lot of concentration
and peace by practicing them, which in turns could help you as a programmer
when you have to deal with difficult tasks.

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BjornW
I've started with searching for a martial art fitting for me 2,5 years ago. I
hadn't been training for a quite some time and I really needed to do something
about it. I had practiced Judo during my child and early teen years and
practiced Tae Kwon Do during college.

I quit both because, in my personal opinion they are too focused on doing one
thing fairly well while more or less ignoring other aspects of fighting. For
example: I found it very annoying that Judo did not allow any punches or
kicks. While Tae Kwon Do didn't allow throws or ground fighting. Basically I
was looking for a different look at fighting, be it kicking, punching, locks,
throws or fighting with weapons. In my view everything should be possible
depending on the context. At that time I found two possible matches (in my
neighborhood) for what I was looking for in a martial art: Takeda Ryu and Krav
Maga. After having followed three lessons of Takeda Ryu I didn't bother of
looking at Krav Maga anymore since Takeda Ryu and the people training at the
dojo matched what I was looking for.

So now I have been training Takeda Ryu Kobilza Ha for 2,5 years. I'm still
just a beginner and need to learn a lot, but I enjoy training very much and
that's what I consider to be the most important. Whatever martial art you like
to start make sure you enjoy it and feel safe in the dojo.

I have the impression that it does have an effect on me outside the dojo,
although I find it hard to describe what the effect exactly is.

Currently I'm practicing five budo disciplines in Takeda Ryu Kobilza Ha:

\- Aikido (throws, locks ) \- Iaido (swiftly drawing the sword and cutting
correctly) \- Jodo (fighting with a stick) \- Jukempo (kicking, punching
combined with throws and locks) \- Kendo (fighting with a drawn sword)

If you would like to know more about Takeda Ryu, have a look at
<http://istb.info/index.php/home.html> or look at some footage of
demonstrations: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INx_CSA_I78> and our main
event in Vienna Austria:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sxtTNjKSsk&](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sxtTNjKSsk&);

ps: This is my own very personal and limited look at martial arts and I do not
want to disrespect any Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Krav Maga or any other martial art
practitioners.

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FidelDahan
Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu. Fighting is without strikes, instead you have holds,
locks and chokes. You win by submitting your opponent, usually on the ground.

It's like chess, but with your body. Combat is very close, but still not
aggressive. Many technical and tactical aspects.

Develops strength, endurance, balance, timing and a feeling for
moving/rolling. Makes your body slick and flexible.

And it makes you enjoy a better in sex.. seriously ;-)

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starkfist
When I was in school I was lucky enough to find a place that offered a mix of
wing chun, kali, muay thai, and moves from arts like silat. This was before
the MMA/BJJ craze so there was not much "grappling" at the time. I could not
find a similar school in the Bay Area so I went to Fairtex. I don't think it
developed any skills directly related to programming, but it was a lot of fun.

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eraad
Ignore everything, go with Brazilian Jiujitsu. Saying BJJ doesn´t work in real
life is like saying Ruby doesn't scale.

If you want to become a killer machine, learn BJJ, box, wrestling and muay-
thai and stop programming. If you want to get fit and exercise your mind and
body, train BJJ.

There are plenty of gyms in the US with great black belts. Look for Alliance,
Gracie Barra, Paragon, Brotherhood.

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tworats
Definitely Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ). It's a very effective martial art, and
its technical nature makes it a very good fit for an analytical mind. I've
only been at it for a few months but so far I love it.

I haven't tried Judo, but I expect that'd be similarly interesting.

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scott_s
I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, some boxing and MMA. It's my main hobby and time
sink after work. Our gym focuses a lot on conditioning and just good ol' grit.
Being mentally broken from conditioning drills makes everything else not as
bad.

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xenonite
I really like Modern Arnis (10yrs). Repeating patterns everywhere, and soo
much variations. The drills have logic, and I assume that programmers can vary
their movements much better, as programming values flexibility.

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neonscribe
Jim Brown in "One Down, Two To Go" (1982):

"I may not know kung fu, but I'm an expert in gun fu."

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086051/quotes>

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stpk4
Wow, a fellow Kendo-ka yes i find that martial arts helps overall in all
aspects of your life.

~~~
stpk4
martial arts is not just about the practicality of techniques, the difference
between a '-do' and '-jitsu' is just that e.g. kendo - kenjitsu, judo -
jujitsu. jitsu's are primarily focused on techniques and kill, where as do's
are focused on the spirituality. there are mutual benefits for both
programming and martial arts, with the mind set of a programmer you tend to
question and try to understand how your body works as a system. Personally
regardless of what martial arts you choose, you will get the same benefits,
other than the techniques that you learn, you will find out more about
yourself. Whats more important is who is your teacher/master/sensei and the
attitude of your peers.

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kingkongreveng_
No offense, but this is kind of a dumb question. A martial art is not much
different from any other sport, programmer or not. Play tennis, box, what's
the difference?

My two cents on which martial art to pick is boxing or one of the kickboxing
varieties. The "east asian" martial arts schools in your American strip mall
practically never emphasize that fighting is 90% physical fitness and
strength, and so I regard them as a bit of a joke. Rare is the taekwondo
student who'd last three rounds against a golden gloves guy.

I mean, you see fat people coming out of these karate classes. There's very
rarely such a thing at a muay thai or boxing gym that actually fields
fighters. When I was boxing it wasn't rare for guys to puke.

I suppose nerds want to think fighting is this cerebral thing where all these
advanced skills with funny japanese names make the difference. Sorry, it's
mostly being able to hit hard and keep doing it a lot for minutes.

~~~
mping
No offense, but I think your opinion shows why most martial arts are in a
state of disgrace right now. Martial arts are very different from one another.

True martial arts are supposed to give you three things: \- Ability for self
defense \- Good health (not only physical health) \- Some sense of inner
peace, zen, or whatever you may want to call it.

One of the many problems of the current state of things is that most societies
are culturally oriented to consume things, the more the better (no offense,
but the Americans excel at this). So most people wouldn't want to learn a
martial art and start very slowly, nor they would spend 6 months learning the
basics. They think that the more you learn, the better.

In martial arts, you learn very little and practice alot. In the past,
students would spend 6 months just doing simple movements, one of the reasons
was that if you don't get the basics wrong you would not go far. I agree with
you that today most people practice martial arts and don't have a clue of how
to defend themselves, but in the past if a martial arts master would not know
how to fight he would simply end up dead or severely hurt. Nowadays, people
want to be able to fight after 2 classes and want to be black belts or masters
after one or two years.

A good example of this kind if practice is Muay Thai fighers. They do not show
that many techniques, yet they are devastating because they dedicate and
practice alot. Another good example of fighting with strategy is BJJ. You see
smaller guys with much less strength taking on bigger guys by employing smart
strategy.

Either way, there's much more about _martial_ _arts_ than physical strength.
My advice is that you first define your aims. What do you want? Be a good
fighter? Be in a good shape? Dedicate some time, or just a few hours on the
weekend?

Based on your objectives, you will be able to choose wisely.

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zwadia
Aikido surely... for when you build something compelling, you can deflect VCs
as they come at you and make it look like their fault.

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dnsworks
Have you considered the Scottish martial art? It's called Fuh Kyou.

(Yes, I deserve every down-mod I get for that)

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sambeau
I thought you had typed "Marital Art"…

…my bad. Moving on.

~~~
jrockway
Some thoughts should be kept to one's self. I think.

~~~
falsestprophet
Don't miss out on his .94 year long comment history

<http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=sambeau>

It sums up to -1 by the way.

~~~
sambeau
Seems a bit harsh for what was just a bad pun. But never mind. I certainly
wasn't trying to offend anyone.

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st4lz
Doesn't matter if you start with python or scheme, but the next one makes you
understand more and gets closer to mastery.

