
GoldBack – Currency With Actual Gold In Bills That Can Be Used Anywhere - dgudkov
https://goldback.com/
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hirundo
> The actual creation cost of the Goldback is currently around $1,000 per
> ounce of gold (or 1,000 Goldbacks). We add 10% to the total price for
> retailers in order to come up with the minimum exchange rate. You can
> calculate the exchange yourself with this formula: Spot gold + $1,000 + 10%

Spot gold is $1,942, so the fraction of the value of the bill that is gold is
1942/3236 =~ 60%. So 1/10 of your investment goes away immediately, and 1/3 is
in a pretty certificate that is not likely to appreciate.

These may be good for small transactions after the apocalypse but they aren't
a good way to invest in gold or to store value.

~~~
dragontamer
I'm more convinced that Silver would be a superior coin in the apocalypse. 1
Oz Silver is $35, and drop down to 1/10th oz denominations for $4 per 0.1 oz
right now. Like, literally right now, you can buy these everywhere.

No complications or certificates. Its just silver. Pretty straight forward.

\-----------

Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel so much? Gold is used for large
transactions. The more common silver and copper coins will be used for smaller
transactions.

Under knowledge of modern economics (which should remain true after the
apocalypse), we'll know to NOT tie the value of gold, silver, and copper
together. But we also know gold/silver/copper ratios won't change
dramatically.

~~~
rtkwe
A big issue with any precious metal as primary unit of exchange is trust that
the coin is what it claims it is. The trust isn’t just a given it’s a
continuation of the trust in the minting government to mint good coins and to
pursue counterfeiters and the difficulty at the time of making quality coins.

Gold is decent for it but not so much now that we can easily gold electroplate
a thick layer on to any metal to pass a cursory acid test. Silver has the
added downside that it tarnishes easily.

~~~
dragontamer
There are also widely available acid-tests for silver. There are also
electrical-conductivity, thermal-conductivity tests (both gold and silver are
superior electrical and thermal conductors), and weight / density tests.

They all can be defeated one-at-a-time. Gold can have tungsten drilled into it
for example (beating acid tests and weight tests), but that won't beat the
thermal conductivity test because tungsten won't transfer the heat out as
quickly.

> Silver has the added downside that it tarnishes easily.

And gold doesn't retain its shape. The solution to "tarnishing" issues (or in
the case of gold: losing their shape), is to use 90% coins instead of 100%
coins. The 10% alloy will be sufficient to reduce tarnishing, add structural
stability, or whatever.

For example, a 1oz American Gold coin weighs 1.09 Oz.

~~~
rtkwe
The issue isn't so much the existence of tests as it is the friction the
uncertainty introduces to commerce. (Although in a post-collapse situation
maintaining those tests does become an issue long term, I used gold tests for
years and only barely know what's in them much less how to make the component
acids.)

------
Witeshadow
Sounds to me like a fancy (and attractive) medium to sell gold to people in a
way they can't verify anything and there is a huge "markup" on account of
production.

So, how do you "add value" to gold? Print it on pretty pieces of paper that
are worth at most 50% of what they are sold for. Under the guise of fiat
currency being "bad" somehow.

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jen729w
Yeah except this can’t actually “be used anywhere”.

> Over 500 businesses in Utah were contacted and asked if they would take gold
> as payment.

Sure, if you call them and set up the pitch and go through it all, I can see
how 50% of people would find it interesting and say, yeah, sure, I’ll take
that. But that’s not science, and is why we do things like double-blinding
tests so that the participants don’t know what’s going on.

Walk in to a place unannounced and try and buy a coffee or a t-shirt or a
PlayStation with them Goldbacks and see how far you get.

~~~
credit_guy
> 50% of people would find it interesting and say, yeah, sure, I’ll take that

And then when they hear that possessing physical gold will complicate their
tax returns, they'll change their mind right away.

A more precise percentage of businesses interested in actually accepting
Goldbacks is 0%.

~~~
weaverheavy
Gold and silver are considered legal tender in Utah. There is no capital gains
tax when you barter with it or exchange it for federal reserve notes.

[https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title59/Chapter12/59-12-S104.html?...](https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title59/Chapter12/59-12-S104.html?v=C59-12-S104_2019051420191001)

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unstatusthequo
25-50% acceptance seems extremely high acceptance rate for businesses
accepting them. I bet if I asked 100 businesses in my town, less than 5 would
even know what this is. I didn’t know what this is until 5 minutes ago and I
buy actual gold.

~~~
Igelau
> Outside of the State of Utah Goldbacks can also be spent. In Oregon at a
> farmers market the Goldback had a about a 25% acceptance rate among business
> owners. This was based off of 40 vendors.

What's "about 25%" of 40? About 10? 9 vendors who said "I guess" and that guy
over there who wasn't a flat out "no"?

~~~
gowld
I'd accept a goldback. Maybe even 10. Same as I'd accept barter for anything
interesting.

But not 100 or more.

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aitchnyu
It's 2020. I would have hoped it's a keyfob device that can dispense laminated
gold pellets to a terminal that can verify the value of each pellet. And that
anybody can manufacture the pellets.

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smabie
It certainly seems like an interesting and somewhat practical idea, assuming
that it is indeed impossible to counterfeit. How does one go about turning
this back into gold? Will burning it work?

------
jmole
I can't find this on their site, but how are they preventing people from
taking the gold out of the bills and recirculating them?

~~~
lazerpants
Doesn't entirely answer your question but this was in the faqs:

Can the Goldback be counterfeited?

Not anytime soon. It took Valaurum over twenty years to develop the technology
to create the Goldback and they have no competitors. Much of the technology is
protected by trade secrets and patents.

There are several anti-counterfeiting features on the Goldback, first, the
negative image on the back can be felt. Second, no other material will glisten
like gold does and no one else can do the vacuum deposition process with gold.
Third, many of the design features on the front are government level.

Additional security features may be introduced in the future. As it stands we
are about 20 years ahead of the counterfeiters.

You can check your Goldback by looking at the serial # on the front and
verifying it is the same # on the reverse.

~~~
Igelau
> You can check your Goldback by looking at the serial # on the front and
> verifying it is the same # on the reverse.

Let me get this straight. They print one number on one side. Then, on the
other side, they have managed to print the exact same number. The same number
on both sides. How could they have that kind of technology? How could one side
of the goldback possibly know what's on the other? It's witchcraft.

~~~
miles
I was mildly interested in the project when it appeared on HN/Boing Boing the
other day:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24237970](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24237970)
. That mild interest has now morphed into a glowing, white hot desire to give
Goldbacks a very wide berth.

