

2013 Nissan Leaf Review - codex
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/top-selling-nissan-leaf-defies-expectations-article-1.1346946

======
simonbarker87
Having used a Leaf twice for 2 full weekends in the North East of England I
can say that I think it's a great car. It feels like driving the future of
affordable family vehicles. In the short term it is only as a run around /
second family car for weekday commuting and running to the shops. At UK
electric prices the cost per mile is not quite as low as you would like, can't
remember exactly what I worked it out to be but is was about 30% of the cost
of a petrol mile - don't hold me to that though I can't quite remember.

The short range is a pain and the first weekend we used it we had 5 inches of
snow and it was -5 so not ideal with the climate control on.

I have a close connection to someone who works at the Nissan plant where they
are ramping up the production (Sunderland) and my understanding is that Nissan
see this as a long term investment to be improved year on year to be a main
stream alternative.

------
timcederman
MPG for electric cars - all explained here
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equiv...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent).
Basically you convert everything to equivalent energy to do the comparison.

I leased a Nissan Leaf a couple of weeks ago as a commuter vehicle. I only did
it because of the price, which was amazingly low, combined with the benefits
of no gas, carpool lane access, and no emissions. What has surprised me is how
much I like it as a car. It's rather cheap and cheerful materials, but it's
thoughtfully designed, and drives great. Given the Federal rebate in the US,
and the extra ones you get in California and other states, I highly recommend
it. (particularly somewhere like the Bay Area, where there are charging
stations everywhere)

~~~
lutorm
That page is pretty funny:

"... research showed that participants did not understand the concept of a
kilowatt hour as a measure of electric energy use despite the use of this unit
in their monthly electric bills. Instead, participants favored a miles per
gallon equivalent, MPGe, as the metric to compare with the familiar miles per
gallon used for gasoline vehicles. The research also concluded that the kW-hrs
per 100 miles metric was more confusing to focus group participants compared
to a miles per kW-hr."

The fact that people find inverse consumption less confusing than consumption
seems to indicate the they never actually do any calculations based on that
number...

The problem with MPGe is that, while it makes for a nice number to compare to
ICE vehicles, it entangles things like the average national efficiency of
power plants with the energy consumption of the car, so it's impossible to
calculate e.g. how much it will cost me to drive to work every day or how
large a PV setup I need to supply my commuting energy need.

~~~
otibom
Oh yes, the classic "people won't understand that so let's go with the bad
solution".

------
alainbryden
After the third paragraph sits this comparison with the Tesla Model S.
[http://autos.nydailynews.com/compare/1525-1606-1613-3976/201...](http://autos.nydailynews.com/compare/1525-1606-1613-3976/2013-Tesla-
Model-S-vs-2013-Ford-Focus-Electric-vs-2013-Honda-Fit-EV-vs-2013-Nissan-
LEAF-S)

The word 'disingenuous' comes to mind, as you can see they've deliberately
started off with a Tesla Model S column containing nothing but red "x" marks
suggesting it lacks every feature of every other car. Looks like a disguised
smear campaign to me.

~~~
voodoomagicman
Wow, it is also wrong - the tesla does have many of those features.

~~~
codex
They're comparing the $50K model, which is the most spartan Model S.

~~~
genkaos
Right, and no "Driver and Passenger Seat Airbags?" Come on...

And now compared against the Signature Performance.
[http://autos.nydailynews.com/compare/1528-1606-1613-3976/201...](http://autos.nydailynews.com/compare/1528-1606-1613-3976/2013-Tesla-
Model-S-Signature-Performance-vs-2013-Ford-Focus-Electric-vs-2013-Honda-Fit-
EV-vs-2013-Nissan-LEAF-S)

~~~
codex
Agreed; they have bullshit specs for the S.

------
MRSallee
This reads a lot like a mildly massaged press release.

~~~
hnha
time to shove it into that text fluff analyser website that was linked a while
ago, wish I'd remember its name.

~~~
Too
<http://www.blablameter.com> ?

~~~
3825
Your text: 3078 characters, 539 words Bullshit Index :0.24 Your text shows
some indications of 'bullshit'-English, but is still within an acceptable
range.

That's good to know.

------
saber3004
The stat sheet they have posted there has a lot of misinformation or
misleading information/omissions...

~~~
JoeKM
Proof?

~~~
alainbryden
The stat sheet
([http://autos.nydailynews.com/compare/1525-1606-1613-3976/201...](http://autos.nydailynews.com/compare/1525-1606-1613-3976/2013-Tesla-
Model-S-vs-2013-Ford-Focus-Electric-vs-2013-Honda-Fit-EV-vs-2013-Nissan-
LEAF-S)) suggests that the Tesla S has none of the features of the other cars
(including some obviously false claims like that it has no driver and
passenger seat airbags). All of Tesla's features can be found here
<http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features> Almost every one of those red
'x's placed in the Tesla column is a bold faced lie.

The stat sheet states outright that Tesla has no backup assist, video display,
usb audio connections, bluetooth, climate control, navigation, on and on, and
every single one of those is included as a feature on this section of the
Tesla page: <http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/interior>

~~~
codex
I'm not sure it's a lie, per se: they're comparing to the $50K model which
doesn't exist anymore. But even the current low end model at $67K doesn't
include navigation.

EDIT: No, looking further at their database, they have no data at all for
Tesla, and everything is pretty much wrong. Total fail.

------
jhowell
I leased a Leaf about 3 days ago (24 not 36 months so I'm out of the $2,500
state rebate but I'd rather turn the car in, in 2 years and get another).
Waiting at a Toyota charging station in Oakland, CA right now while the wife
is getting a pedi. The Assistant Service Manager started to give me a hard
time saying they only charge Toyota EV's, but his manager changed his mind. So
far, so awesome. It's actually kind of exciting driving past gas stations.

My previous car was a sports cars (cayman) that I drove constantly over 80 MPH
as a norm, and filled with 91 octane. (apx $4.15/gallon) The tires, the 60K
service, brakes, etc. I just got tired of the expense and the looming expenses
of owning a car like that. The Leaf is certainly a personal life change but I
actually feel a bit relieved. I find myself chauffeuring my wife around more,
which to be honest is kind of cool too. She feels it's too "technical" for her
to feel comfortable driving, but that's just because she hasn't driven it yet.

~~~
anxx
The sports car thing must be a phase. I can't wait for the day I walk in to a
dealer and drive out with an Audi R8 Spyder. And I am very non-luxurious with
the rest of my expenses.

~~~
jhowell
You'll grow out of it. It's really easy to grow out of $2k (slightly less) for
tires. My advice is to stay clear of this sort of thing because you may fall
in love.

------
Shivetya
Four seats, soft top convertible, for forty thousand or less, and then I will
join the electric crowd. Currently we have this quirky little Nissan, the all
too small 500e, and the big as a boat Tesla.

Give us something fun and environmentally friendly, thank you.

~~~
robterrell
Given the drag that a convertible imposes, you're probably waiting a long time
for that.

Are you sure the 500e is too small? None of the dealers I've called have one
yet.

Don't forget the Honda Fit EV and Rav4 EV. The Rav4 is effectively a cheap
tesla. But. Neither model is priced to compete like the leaf and 500e are.

------
podperson
It would be awesome if the linked comparison chart wasn't full of errors (the
Tesla apparently has NO features), included ranges (even best guesses) for
each of the vehicles and mentioned whether the stated range of the Tesla was
for the base price model.

------
RivieraKid
I've never understood 1 thing about the car industry – why are 90% of cars so
boring- or even ugly-looking? Why don't the manufacturers make designs like
the Tesla S?

~~~
shriphani
Have you ever seen an Aston Martin, a ferrari, a lambo or a rolls royce? They
all look fantastic. If you can charge 80k+ for a car you can invest time in
making it look good.

The Leaf is 1/3 rd the price of the Model S.

~~~
RivieraKid
That's what I don't understand. Does good design really add substantial cost
to the car?

~~~
mikestew
Luxury cars can start from the ground up. In the case of the Leaf, the first
line is "start with a Nissan Versa..." Plus there are all kinds of trade-offs
between aerodynamics, noise reduction, aesthetics, and cost.

Me, I'm fine with the looks of the Leaf. But we also own the original Scion
xB.

------
hkmurakami
Hmm I just read an article in Japanese regarding Nissan's struggles with the
Leaf, so I'm not sure which story to believe.

~~~
ericd
Based on what I saw in Revenge of the Electric Car, I think they expected much
more out of the Leaf than they've gotten so far. I think they were also aiming
for 100 miles of range, though, and fell short of it by a significant
margin...

------
spenrose
Here's a nice chewy review: [http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/02/review-
a-week-in-a-...](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/02/review-a-week-
in-a-2012-nissan-leaf/) <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730002>

------
anxx
50,000 cars sold globally makes it the best selling electric car? I thought
that number was very low and then I googled some stats - it seems that the
mini cooper for example sells ~100,000 cars per year. Somehow I'd have
expected for cars to sell like a million units to make their whole
manufacturing profitable.

~~~
mikestew
Sadly, yes, the Leaf is selling like dog shit sandwiches. The Chevy Volt is
doing a little better, apparently. I don't know if it's those weekly trips
from SFO to LA that people raise as an objection to EVs, or because a gasoline
car is the safe bet. After almost two years of ownership, I can't imagine why
anyone with the means wouldn't buy an EV as at least a second car.

------
speeder
Why the moderators not only changed the title, but changed to one that is NOT
the article title?

Usually they do the opposite (and ruins a perfectly good title), not they did
something consistant (ruined a title) while not following the guidelines they
claim to follow (of renaming to follow the article title)

