
In a world of digital nomads, we will all be made homeless - pmoriarty
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/18/digital-nomad-homeless-tech-work
======
asfasgasg
"Stop liking what I don't like," in twenty inches? Listen, some people _want_
a short commute. There's nothing bad about Google building housing near its
campus. It's good for the environment, good for health, good for the city,
good for employees.

Hell, it's even good for family, which the author seems hung up on. You know
what you're not doing while driving home from work for forty five minutes? I
would accept an arbitrarily short commute to work. If there were reasonably
priced dwellings in the building I work at, I would live there. More time to
play with my kid, cook dinner, or whatever else.

And then he goes on to complain about affordable urban housing. Well, is it
sinister to live near work, or isn't it? I agree that WeLive's prices are very
high for someone who intends to stay put. But . . . that's not what they're
for? Should we get rid of hotels too?

~~~
Bjorkbat
I would argue that at the least it's a little absurd that we're resorting to
corporate housing and "work-dorms" for lack of a better term when we could
just simply shift more work to small and mid-size cities. Get your short
commute, live in an actual house.

I mean, it's kind of silly to imagine a small cluster of Google employees in a
metro of approximately 200,000 people, but at some point it has to sound less
silly than some of the proposed ways of fitting more people into a metro with
3x-5x rent prices.

~~~
AstralStorm
There is but one risk which USA has seen in the past. When the company owns
your living space, there is even stronger pressure on you to stay there, be
productive and accept lower wages. When it also owns your food source, the
threat is even greater. The result would be replacement of wages with
"benefits" such as living. Technical indentured servitude also known as soft
slavery. Technically you could move, except you cannot ever possibly afford
to.

Additional stress would be put on people not in this arrangement as they would
potentially have to spend more money to get at the same level. (Albeit there
could be less pressure in the housing market.)

The next step in this slippery slope would be inheritance. Since company owns
everything, your kids inherit little. Either that, or they inherit a
position... Welcome to actual indentured servitude again. Company branded kids
straight out of a few known dystopias.

Mostly because moving is a special kind of hell, especially with kids.
Communities cannot form either way.

Some people like it, they're a minority though as far as I know.

~~~
stakhanov
...the thing about WeWork, however, is that you don't work for them, they work
for you. Corporate housing was also done a lot in the post-WW2
reindustrialization of Europe. But coupled with strong tenant protections,
it's not such a destructive force at the end of the day. A corporate couldn't
kick you out of corporate housing just because you no longer worked there.

~~~
AstralStorm
All of this is fine until collusion...

With current US competition protections a cartel likely will happen a few
times or more. Since there is "competition" between companies, even if all of
them are doing the same thing.

------
DoreenMichele
_Whose utopia is this, when people have to sever emotional links and leave
where they grew up to find dependable work?_

Oh, how rich. As if this is new.

More of that American ideal (aka delusion) that a 1950s style lifestyle is The
Natural Order Of Things. It's not. It's very much an anomaly.

It's a terrible article that very much throws the baby out with the bathwater.
As someone who likes moving around and did so a lot as a military wife, the
sneering tone of the article that frames anyone who moves a lot as some kind
of victim who has been denied a real life really does not go over well with
me.

There are, no doubt, genuine criticisms to made of the current trend towards
jobs with long hours and no benefits and the like. This has really nothing to
do with the trend towards digital nomads.

Further, some of what he criticizes likely falls under the heading of "Excess
student loans are ruining the lives of modern Americans" rather than the
heading of being a digital nomad per se.

There is a real need for genuinely affordable housing. But if you are a single
parent, working from home -- the way most of humanity basically did for
thousands of years -- is a boon, not a problem. It allows you to take care of
family and also make some money.

I just have nothing good to say about this article. I'm also personally
offended at the use of the term _homeless_ in the title to basically mean
something like _rootless_ or _without a real sense of belonging._ It is a
really inflammatory and misleading title.

~~~
notahacker
In this case it's a British 1930s ideal, and a very specific Guardian
obsession with arguing every new middle class lifestyle they don't understand
is the consequence of labour and housing market pressures and A Bad Thing For
Everyone.

Wealthy young digital workers aren't paying premium prices for shiny work/live
accommodation in Bali because they're been deprived of opportunities for
housing and employment in Slough, they're doing it because the lifestyle
appeals to them and they're amongst the few wealthy enough and flexibly-
employed enough to be free to do so.

------
sologoub
This is an alphabet soup of fads and terms put in a political blender to make
a barely coherent point. All seems to boil down to frustration with the job
market trends.

Main thesis seems to be “millions of people have to leave where they grew up
to find even halfway dependable work;“

Ok, the entire premise of the “digital nomad” is that work can be done from
anywhere. The exact opposite of what is being argued here - if the work can be
done from anywhere, then you can compete for that work from the comfort of
your familiar settings. Or if you so choose, from anywhere in the world.
That’s digital nomadism, not herding people into ever smaller spaces to make
things more efficient.

A huge part of today’s digital work can be done from any well equipped home
office or even a bench with a good internet connection and a power supply
reserve. The fact that we MAKE remote work difficult is our own doing (me
included) and will require a culture change that is well on its’ way.

~~~
peteretep
> This is an alphabet soup of fads and terms put in a political blender to
> make a barely coherent point

It's in the Opinion section in the Guardian; this shouldn't be a huge
surprise.

I hate how news sites -- and the Guardian are particularly guilty of this --
mix opinion and news in very similarly styled layouts. The Guardian seemed to
have started this with "Comment is Free" back in the day. The Guardian is very
authoritative for news, and often pretty worthless for columnists / opinion
pieces.

I appreciate the Economist having started 1843 Magazine, which appears to be a
specific counter to that. It's promoted by their social media outlets, and yet
it's clearly a separate brand.

~~~
thraway180306
Wow, citing The Economist as neutral news, that's something. Probably about
you.

~~~
peteretep
I'd be at least vaguely curious to know in which direction you think it's
biased.

~~~
leg100
Laissez-faire, free-market, liberal, anglo-saxon economics and politics. Think
Adam Smith or utilitarians like John Stuart Mill. Add a sprinkling of sympathy
for social justice, social democracy. Small'ish state, pro-abortion, pro-gun-
control. Unquestioning of capitalism as the only game in town, with forever a
rosy view of its prospects (if only politicians stop meddling).

They regularly have an article damning France and its dirigism.

------
6_45
I listened to an interview of Zillow CEO today. Housing prices are on fire,
above the pre-recession peak of early 2000s, but it's not because of a bubble.
It's because of a housing shortage. The high-mid and high end of the market
has been getting lots of new construction but the low end doesn't because lack
of demand (less buyers esp with post recession lending practices) and because
of high land prices. Also, rent is very high now and this prevents people from
saving up for a down payment on a house.

Have you ever asked yourself why there isn't a wall Mart or Starbucks of
housing? Why are all houses not owned and rented out by a small group of
wealthy entities? Just like every other market, it should trend toward
consolidation right? Perhaps it just hasnt been given enough time.

Anyway, I think we will see these high prices continue for a long time and
demand for cheaper housing, combined with new sat internet, driverless cars
and other things, will grow and eventually spill over into a massive flood of
cheap housing outside city hotspots.

Wework is massively overvalued, is engaging in borderline fraudulent bonds
with high interest rates. Nobody wants their creepy day care centers or to
live in their foxconn dorms and I predict that a good many of their bonds will
go into default.

~~~
Animats
_Why are all houses not owned and rented out by a small group of wealthy
entities? Just like every other market, it should trend toward consolidation
right?_

It's happened. In many small and medium sized cities, there's one dominant
landlord.[1] So far, nobody is big enough to do this to a major city.
Blackstone may be getting close. "Blackstone is now 'the largest owner of real
estate in the world'"[2].

[1] [https://righttothecity.org/cause/rise-of-the-corporate-
landl...](https://righttothecity.org/cause/rise-of-the-corporate-landlord/)
[2] [http://www.businessinsider.com/blackstone-is-largest-
owner-o...](http://www.businessinsider.com/blackstone-is-largest-owner-of-
real-estate-2015-11)

------
sumanthvepa
Though not a nomad, (in that I have a solid home base I travel out of,) as a
freelance consultant I'm usually away from home base for 20 or more days a
month. My form of 'nomadism' isn't working in big well known cities: NY,
London, Paris etc.. I mostly work out of nondescript client offices in smaller
cities in South/South East Asia and Eastern Europe. Working out of a coffee
shop is not usually an option. The biggest problem I have is getting healthy
food and exercise. They just aren't good healthy places to eat in many
developing countries. Wonder how digital nomads handle this issue.

~~~
trevyn
Buy vegetables and walk a lot.

------
nisten
Software will absorb new humans as just another object, and map them into some
form of homelessness, because that's the most efficient use of us.

Personally I'd feel happier if I grew up on a community surrounded by people
that I knew and cared for, instead of being routed around like a tinder
hookup, endlessly bidding for cheaper container storage.

I think that's something worth sacrificing a little bit of algorithmic
efficiency for.

------
zerostar07
Humans have enjoyed living next to their workplace (their fields) for millenia
and enjoyed it. The industrial era is the uncomfortable abberation, not the
other way around.

~~~
stakhanov
+1 on that. And company housing is anything but a new idea either. During the
post-WW2 reindustrialization of Europe, it was the norm when a big industrial
company set up shop somewhere that they would build huge housing estates for
their employees right on campus and even facilities like allotment gardens in
rural areas, so people can have a garden at the weekend and stuff like that.
And this is making a comeback. Munich, for example, is having such an
overheated housing market that it's becoming extremely difficult for companies
based here to take in new employees from outside, so they've starting getting
into the business of providing company housing.

~~~
jahewson
Indeed, some mill owners in 1850s Britain built (good) housing and sometimes
entire villages for their workers.

~~~
paganel
The same happened in former Austro-Hungary. The bad thing was when said owners
decided that they should impose their moral precepts on their workers: "it's
bad having fun and drinking till late at night on Sundays because no-one will
come to work sober on Mondays, so let's punish those workers who are seen as
encouraging this behavior". It was also not fun for the workers/tenants being
forced to buy all their food stuff from the owners' shops, who in fact had
imposed a monopoly in feeding their workers. That's pretty close to servitude,
if you ask me.

------
mwwilson
It'll be interesting to see where things end up in 15-30 years.

One of the most attractive parts of 'digital nomadism' to me is that it
doesn't require one to be a nomad. I could just as easily freelance from the
small Kansas town I grew up in as from a van somewhere in SF.

From the perspective of having children and wanting them to experience actual
physical community I see the trend towards remote work and freelancing as a
boon. Instead of having to live in suburbia and commute to work everyday
there's actually a viable path to living in a small community where cost of
living is low and getting to actually spend time with my family. My kids can
experience the independence of riding their bikes to the playground, I can be
a part of their education and model something other than disappearing for 10
hours at time M-F and being tired all weekend.

Of course the trend could continue towards the majority moving as close to
their regional hub as possible and spending their every waking moment glued to
a screen, but I suspect that there will be at least a large minority of us who
choose to embrace the possibilities that open up when one is not tied to a
metropolis for work. Home ownership and physical community being two of those
possibilities.

------
rob-olmos
It would be nice if US health insurance was a bit more roam-friendly as well.
Becoming out-of-network with a $14k deductible just for moving to another
state is a bit annoying. Last time I got new insurance outside of open
enrollment (via a special exception for moving) it took a few months after
moving to process & approve the exception. Having to transfer medical records
is another aspect.

------
everdev
> WeWork is slowly expanding into a new venture called WeLive, up and running
> in New York and Washington DC, set to open for business in Seattle, and also
> planned for Tel Aviv. If accommodation is proving hard to find, you need
> company, and your life as a freelance means you have no permanent workplace
> where you can meet like-minded people, here is a solution: a range of tiny
> studio flats and slightly bigger dwellings, built around communal areas,
> kitchens and laundrettes – in the same building as WeWork office space.

Sounds great as long as it's affordable. I've often wanted to stay a few
months in a new location to feel more immersed than a two week vacation, but
not ready to sign a 3 month lease on a furnished apartment. Sounds like this
would fill the gap between hotels and renting.

------
Kiro
> it is surely no way to spend any sizable share of your adult life

Why not? We are many people who don't want to start a family, ever.

------
krsdcbl
I do see the concerns, and I guess it can paint a troublesome picture of an
"always working" community.

But let me ask you: has it been any different for many, many of the
freelancers out there, without the help of WeWork and such?

Blaming an affluence of commodities generally only found in well paid big
corporate jobs, or short commutes for the danger of never really stopping to
work as a freelancer is at best ignoring the work reality of many, if not
most, as it is already now.

The reality (even if its just the starting years) more often is: you get out
of bed and over to your desk, and everything around you is work and
distraction at the same time.

Beeing able to jump into a place of likeminded people with a certain level of
comfort & leisure and being able to afford infrastructure and ressources
generally inaccessible to a one-human-show is invaluable, and working amongst
peers will do A LOT to keep you from burning out in the first place.

To stick to a schedule and stop working at the end of the day is something
you'll have to learn no matter the environment!

------
bwang29
If owning a home becomes the new anomaly and living/working on roam is the new
norm, would fixed housing eventually be devalued for the main population?

~~~
TangoTrotFox
Certainly, with an asterisk. That asterisk is that your thoughts are urban-
centric. Right now there is a vast amount of _very_ cheap land available in
the US. So desperate are some areas for people and development, that you can
even get _free_ land if you promise to build (or park) a home on it. There are
even multi acre lots given out by the government at places like Cuyahoga
Valley National Park [1] for next to nothing.

You can't get much cheaper than this. When people talk about the rise in
housing prices, it's invariably speaking of not only the most populated, but
also the most economically prosperous and desirable areas in the country. And
in these places - no, housing and land prices will likely only continue to
increase as demand is unlikely to waver anytime in the foreseeable future, yet
supply is strictly limited - even when expanded.

[1] - [https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-
culture/food/t...](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-
culture/food/the-plate/2015/07/13/uncle-sam-wants-you-to-live-and-farm-on-a-
national-park/)

------
HumanDrivenDev
The article seemed a bit confused and meandering to me. The side spiel about
modern life requiring most of us to up sticks and put off starting a family is
the more interesting part, but not really expanded upon.

------
Myrmornis
There’s a lot of criticism of the article in this thread. I’m surprised — I
know several couples who have had trouble finding a place they call ”home” and
deciding when and how to move towards starting a family, and the article is
correct that certain aspects of modern work culture are relevant. I’m talking
about university educated middle classes. The article is not very convincing
in its clams to be addressing problems of anybody who’s not university
educated middle class.

~~~
Nasrudith
From what I have heard about economically depressed areas that may also be
because moving in itself is a small luxury. There is a need for a lack of
obligations like caring for ailing family and either enough capital for a move
which won't cause you to wind up homeless or ability to work a job where local
labor is scarce or decommoditized enough to justify covering moving expenses
in importing workers and evaluating nonlocal candidates.

This isn't just skill - it also can include things like willingness to work in
uprootive work like the military, long haul trucking, or offshore oil rigs.

------
LukasRos
Unfortunately, the author mixes the sometimes related but otherwise distinct
concepts of company housing, remote work, flexible work, freelancing,
expats/working migrants, and digital nomadism. Therefore it doesn't really say
much of substance about any of them.

------
jfz
Just don't try to build corporate housing in Brazil...

[https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/fordlandia/](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/fordlandia/)

~~~
jdhn
Or if you do, resist the urge to impose your Puritan values on your employees
while making an attempt to understand the local culture/environment.

------
jhare
Different strokes. I became sober months ago after years and years of heavy
drinking. I don't do much else but sleep for a few hours at a time, program
some hours, go back to sleep. My work is remote enough and meetings are sparse
enough to get away with it and I maintain relative privacy still.

Hopefully the complaint of the author is VALID and he'll be left complaining
to no one but the support ticket system and blog someone else wrote,
douchebag.

------
wkoszek
Personally I think it's a terrible idea to work at Google, live at Google,
have your Google-only relationships, have your Google kids to talk to only
Google kids, and stay on the campus all the time. It's a little awkward to
know I walk around the SV streets and there are people who think otherwise.

