
N. Korean leader Kim Jong Il dies - josscrowcroft
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16239693
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Tsagadai
I've lived in South Korea for two years and this is the most I've ever heard
people talk about Kim Jong Il or North Korea. Even the shelling of Yeonpyeong
Island in 2010 didn't generate this much talk. This is also the first time
I've ever heard anyone tell a joke about North Korea. People are telling jokes
in the street right now.

~~~
raldi
What's an example of the kind of jokes South Koreans tell about Kim?

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andrewfelix
_"died on Saturday of physical and mental over-work."_ His propaganda machine
is still alive and well.

~~~
willchang
This is something of a trope. In Imperial China the death of an emperor was
often ascribed to "積勞成疾", which literally translates to "illness from
accumulated labor".

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yahelc
Is there an algorithmic reason this post isn't higher on the front page? It
has more upvotes and is newer than everything but 1 or 2 things ahead of it.
Here's a screenshot:
[http://dl.dropbox.com/u/397675/Screen%20Shot%202011-12-18%20...](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/397675/Screen%20Shot%202011-12-18%20at%2011.43.04%20PM.png)

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ivankirigin
I bet it has many flags

~~~
jokermatt999
That sounds likely to me. Part of the guidelines say "No current events",
which probably led to people flagging it. I'd rather not comment on the
story's appropriateness, but I'm pretty sure that's why.

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Murkin
Talk about good timing.

With the political climate of change in afrika and middle east, this might be
a great reason for the goverment to tear itself apart as various factions try
to take over 'in the name of the people'

We do live in exciting times

~~~
blhack
He's been grooming Kim Jong Un (his son) for quite a while now.

~~~
nekojima
Kim Il Sung was his father.

Kim Jong Il's son Kim Jong Un is the annotated successor, though will be a
puppet for a while, if he survives the next few days and weeks.

~~~
AgentConundrum
> _Kim Jong Il's son Kim Jong Un is the annotated successor_

I'm pretty sure you meant "anointed" there.

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wilzy
This is a big blow to <http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/>

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cdcarter
<http://kimjongunlookingatthings.tumblr.com> is up and running though.

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robryan
Will be interesting to see if his son and chosen successor is able to retain
power and persure a similar governing style. Seems like the perfect
opportunity for change in North Korea.

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zmanji
I wonder if his son's violent statements toward SK will turn into violent
actions.

~~~
josscrowcroft
Yeah, I think everyone will be watching closely to see where this goes.

This is a two-year-old article but it's pretty interesting to read: "North
Korea After Kim Jong Il: Four Scenarios"
[http://www.nps.edu/Academics/centers/ccc/publications/Online...](http://www.nps.edu/Academics/centers/ccc/publications/OnlineJournal/2009/Dec/vandermeerDec09.pdf)

~~~
nekojima
A mixture of scenarios two and three have long been considered the most likely
by many "informed" (a relative term for NK) observers.

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tomflack
I wonder if his son is prepared for the massive power play that will come from
the military brass over the next few months.

~~~
nekojima
Not likely. Kim Jong Il's brother-in-law was generally understood/guessed to
be the one holding the reins of power in 2008 when Kim was ill then and will
likely take firmer control again, even if its from behind the scenes, using
Kim Jong Un as a figurehead for perhaps a decade. This is similar to what
happened when Kim took over in 1994 after his father's death.

There isn't sufficient command & control capability or maneuverability for the
NK military to take swift control of the country or perhaps even the capital,
if the party apparatus (cadre, spies, police, informants) doesn't stand in its
way.

~~~
tomflack
I purposely chose "power play" over "coup d'etat" to allow for less sweeping
changes. There will certainly be a push by the military for a greater share of
power.

~~~
nekojima
Looking at the released list of funeral mourners, this has already begun. A
few surprises in the order, though it could be a ruse. Everything in NK is a
ruse, tough to ever know anything for certain, even with 'educated'
speculation. But its fun to try (if you are outside of NK). :-)

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joshuahedlund
Saddam Hussein: dead at 69. Gaddafi: dead at 69. Kim Jong-Il: dead at 69.

How did Fidel Castro get out of this?

~~~
jarek
Climate in Cuba is way nicer than any of the other places.

~~~
philwelch
Also, he's not an isolated international pariah whose own people want to kill
him, just a thorn in the side of the US.

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andrewljohnson
How about a black banner, pg?

~~~
dmerfield
Some people have no sense of humour.

~~~
rdtsc
One for Vaclav Havel would have made sense though.

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kumarm
2011 certainly is a disastrous year for Terrorists and Dictators around the
world :)

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zeruch
The surface will probably be quiet for a bit, while the internal political
machine of the DPRK roils. There are certainly a lot of possibilities (both
good or bad) that can happen depending on who actually takes over control.
Even if the regime collapsed non-violently, the ensuing chaotic human crisis
would still be immense. My belief is that it will continue largely unchanged
for the short to mid term.

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diamondhead
I'm patiently waiting for the submissions about Angelina Jolie.

~~~
diamondhead
here it comes: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3368478>

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diamondhead
Another article that shows HN turned into a regular American newspaper.

~~~
robryan
Hardly, HN only covers world events with real global significance. I enjoy
reading HN users takes on this kind of news as I find it interesting to
discuss this kind of news but comments on mainstream news sites are terrible
and I don't really have the time to invest in other sites with quality
comments who cover this stuff in far higher volume.

~~~
diamondhead
Would you like to have a hacker community having smart conversations about
Britney Spears and Paris Hilton, too?

~~~
TeMPOraL
Why not, if there is something smart to discuss about them, something
gratifying our intellectual curiosity[1]. I vaguely remember even pg referring
to Lady Gaga as hacker in clothes space in (I think) Hackers&Painters (anyone
have the reference? I can't seem to find it :/).

[1] - <http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html>

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maeon3
After his death, Kim Il-sung was declared the country's Eternal President.

Could it be possible to take control of North Korea by getting a plant in
there, killing Kim II Sung and his family and then using his power to work
behind the signs and use the totalitarian Stalinist dictatorship to morph the
country into a free capitalistic republic? Sounds like something the special
forces could do in a few weeks, it just has to be a surprise so the military
doesn't get a chance to respond.

Not doing anything seems cruel and unusual punishment. We may be born there in
your next lives, wouldn't you want someone to do something about it?

~~~
ceejayoz
> Sounds like something the special forces could do in a few weeks, it just
> has to be a surprise so the military doesn't get a chance to respond.

Right, because surprising nutjobs with nukes is a great idea.

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codyrobbins
Thank god.

~~~
andrewfelix
You'd think god would have done something sooner.

EDIT: This joke going over a few heads?

~~~
codyrobbins
God doesn’t exist: it’s simply an interjection. One that expresses my gladness
over the death of someone who is legitimately an evil person.

~~~
swah
I see what you did there.

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linbsd21
North Korean Authorities suspect Fair Play.

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swah
Please can we have two HNs.

