

Gates: Apple may have to make a Surface-like device - pohl
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57466040-71/gates-apple-may-have-to-make-a-surface-like-device/

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glesica
Why? Seriously. What has he seen in the market for devices over the past 15-20
years that makes him think that?

Yes, there has been a trend toward consolidating devices (PDA and camera
functions being subsumed by the cell phone, for instance). But there's a huge
difference between that and converging a tablet with a laptop: the differences
between tablets and laptops are largely form, not function.

You couldn't take a photo on a Palm Pilot or early cell phone. You just
couldn't do it. You needed a standalone camera. Enter the camera phone.
Suddenly you _could_ take a photo on a cell phone. In addition, you could send
the pictures you took to other people as you took them, something you couldn't
do before at all! So once the quality of the phone cameras hit a certain
point, people started relying on them and convergence had happened.

How would the laptop and tablet naturally converge for "normal" users? What
can one device _do_ that the other _can't_ , and what could a converged device
_do_ that neither of the individual devices can?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see it.

Disclaimer: I think the Surface looks pretty bad-ass and I'm thrilled to see
MS calling out the OEMs for releasing an endless parade of vision-killing
crap.

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tikhonj
I don't know. I imagine it's like this: you want a tablet for lounging on your
couch and watching movies or browsing the internet; you want a light laptop
for doing actual work at Starbucks or your local library. You could get an
iPad and an MBA, or you could just get a Surface and have both in one.

So it's not really some new capability--rather, it's a single device that can
do the job of two. Not only is this more cheaper but it is also more
convenient: you don't have to sync your files between devices or keep track of
two different computers (with different operating systems, at that!); you can
just use your single Windows computer for both tasks.

I think the slightly odd design of Windows 8 is actually very conducive to
this: for lounging around, you have Metro and for actual work you have the
classic desktop. I could certainly see people currently on Windows liking
that.

Now, I don't know if the Surface _actually_ fulfills that role in practice,
but that's what I imagine the idea to be.

I also suspect that this isn't aimed at Apple customers at all--the person
getting the iPad and MBA would still get them out of brand loyalty. Rather,
this is aimed at your stalwart Windows user who is considering getting an iPad
but isn't crazy about Apple and wouldn't want to switch to OS X.

On a completely unrelated note, I would love to get one and run Linux.
Unfortunately, it seems there is going to be a lot of useless nonsense around
secure boot that would make this difficult (at least for the ARM version). But
I think this is the perfect device to play around with the new KDE touch
interface.

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DeepDuh
One aspect that's absolutely critical for tablets is weight. As an example,
the weight difference of the iPad2 vs iPad1 makes a huge difference for me -
only the latter allows me to hold it for longer periods without getting tired.

The advantages you describe are IMO only applicable for Win x86 tablets - and
those will be either underpowered, undercharged or too heavy to compete with
the iPad-experience when it comes to just consuming media on your couch.

Sure, the two device categories are closing up and will likely merge at some
point in the future - but the hardware is not there yet for doing everything
without serious concessions.

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kposehn
I feel that Surface brings one single thing to the table: a neat keyboard.

Nothing else about the tablet is innovative; it feels like trying to cram way
too much into a single device (or range of devices) at the cost of a clear
focus.

The iPad is the standard simply because when you see it - or when you pick it
up - you know _exactly_ what to do with it.

Surface feels like a tablet that wants to play at the laptop table, but it
doesn't realize all the fun is where it is at right now.

~~~
s_henry_paulson
Disagree. The iPad is largely geared at consuming content.

The features of the surface allow users to be able to create content. They can
use Office, Visual Studio, PhotoShop, etc.

These things just simply can't be done on an iPad.

On surface, I can open up OneNote, and start taking handwritten notes, which
the computer also does character recognition on so I can later search through
my notes, or convert them into a typed document, etc.

You know what to do on an iPad because your options are limited.

This is an ultra-portable solution for people that want to have the abilities
of a full functioning OS.

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DeepDuh
Until you see that most of the x86 ecosystem is not optimized for touch input.
We're pretty much at the same point as with the old tablet PCs, except that
they will have become lighter and with detachable keyboard. It doesn't solve
the old UX problem of having desktop apps with a touchscreen - in fact it
makes it worse since you can't easily switch to a touchpad .

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stevenleeg
The title of this is a bit sensational. Gates only said that it was a "strong
possibility" that Apple would have to do something similar to the "no
compromise" strategy of the Surface.

~~~
Herring
The whole article was mocking Gates, and not very subtly either.

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jsz0
I assume he means something like the Surface Pro? I don't think we'll see
anything like that from Apple until the weight issues are resolved. The MS
Surface Pro is 2 pounds. The original iPad at 1.5 pounds was pushing the
limits of what most people found acceptable for a device you might hold for a
long period of time. Even the small weight difference between the 2nd and 3rd
generation iPads is noticeable. Now add more than half a pound to that weight
and you're holding a boat anchor. Microsoft seems to think that perhaps a
device like the Surface Pro is a better value than two separate devices. I
can't see how that would be true. You end up with half a laptop and a tablet
too heavy to actually use as a tablet. Two devices cost more but are actually
a better value because they can both be very good devices.

~~~
frugalfirbolg
Hmm, I use a Lenovo X220 convertible as a tablet for extended periods with
little fatigue. It weighs 3.88 lbs. I've also used the IBM T60 tablet.

I'll admit that the iPad's lightness is a nice feature, but not a necessity.
Also, I am not a power lifter, and for comparison my little sister has also
used these form factors and carries a 17" MacBook Pro at 6.66 lbs.

My point is that for some people this is a viable form factor.

My primary concern about the Surface Pro is cooling since it doesn't appear to
have fans and the last batch of Ivy Bridge CPUs were using some questionable
heat compound between the die and outer casing. I also wonder if it will be
capable of delivering reasonable performance with applications such as
Photoshop or run a WAMP server and IDE at the same time.

~~~
astrodust
Microsoft's track record with cooling is far from flawless if the gigantically
expensive Xbox 360 recall is any indication.

I really wonder if they can tame the heat problem in the device using current-
spec chips, or they're going to stall until Intel's 2013 chips hit and they
have more margin.

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6ren

      > How come ... Jobs was able to cross the tablet threshold and Gates wasn't?
    

There's also the small matter of 10 years worth of Moore's Law. It's
significant, though, that if the tablet-winter could be overcome, perhaps
other winters may yet also be...

 _EDIT_ Apple also had the Newton, a tablet-like device...

~~~
mitchty
Even then, the approaches were entirely different. Microsoft tried shoehorning
their desktop os into a tablet, Apple did not. They did the same thing for
their phone os, I for one do not miss the stylus phones.

~~~
luriel
I do miss phones with decent (and that meas _physical_ ) keyboards.

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marze
Steve would have said, is he inebriated?

Anyhow, the $99 Logitech keyboard case is available today.

~~~
kevingadd
If you think a $100 keyboard case makes an iPad into a real computer, I'm not
sure you've used a computer before.

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astrodust
I'm not sure you've used a Surface device, either. In fact, I'm pretty sure
you haven't.

A $100 keyboard case turns the iPad into as much of a computer as most people
need. What do you think people are doing these days that requires a
"computer"?

If you're like most people, you'll check your email, visit your social
networks, flick through your favorite apps, maybe some games, and then you'll
watch movies or listen to music.

I don't see what Surface adds to help anyone in that department. It might get
the Office crowd all jazzed up in theory but if I crunched spreadsheets all
day, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it on some crappy ARM Surface device.

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quesera
That's funny.

I'd love to see Steve Jobs' reaction to Bill Gates' opinion regarding what
Apple needs to do.

I suspect Tim Cook's reaction will be similar, though quieter.

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zanny
What about the Transformer Infinity? You know, it is basically the surface..
coming out this month... running android. Go write apps for it. I plan to
after I pick one up, it looks awesome.

~~~
astrodust
You know, more people would write apps for it if more people owned one, and
more people would own one if there were more apps for it.

This is the harsh reality of the game Google's committed to playing. Their
advertising-first, developers-second model isn't helping either.

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fchollet
I believe Tim Cook has already stated very clearly to the press that Apple
will NOT be making any laptop/tablet hybrid. At this point a change of
direction seems unlikely.

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noamsml
Apple always denies they will make things -- until they do.

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astrodust
This is what drives the rumors wild. The stronger they deny it, the more it's
apparently confirmed.

WWDC 2020 will undoubtedly feature a flying car.

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fxj
Gates says: Microsoft's tablets, he said weren't as "thin and attractive."
Yes, they were the lover you had, rather than the one you want.

If I were Melinda, I would be pissed.

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michaelcampbell
Why, when you have the ear of the USPTO and just litigate it out of existence?

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phil
Delusional.

