
Americans Strongly Dislike PC Culture - johnny313
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/?single_page=true
======
Chazprime
I suspect the reason that most Americans don’t like political correctness is
because even someone who isn’t highly educated or is politically disengaged
knows a bad faith argument when they hear one. And If the people making these
arguments don’t learn that using scorched-earth tactics in _every_ situation
isn’t the right way to engage with issues of injustice or inequality, I don’t
see that changing anytime soon.

------
erikpukinskis
“Americans strongly dislike [term which is demonized constantly]”

... you don’t say.

Ask them if they like people using words like fa---- and ni---- and b---- in
the workplace.

If the majority of people say they wish they could use those words then by all
means write an article to tell us about it.

All this “study” tells us is that people react as trained to a highly
manipulated term.

It’s like all the people who say they’re not a feminist but they think women
should be paid the same for the same work and rapists should be prosecuted.

“I’m for those things, but I’m against the banner under which they would be
naturally advocated for, because I associate that banner with shitty people
for some reason.”

All you have to do to hobble a movement is associate its name with some
garbage.

~~~
legostormtroopr
"Excuse me Erik, but "hobble" is an ableist term, its problematic and
offensive and you should apologise now. If you don't apologise we will harass
your employer for employing an obvious bigot."

That's the kind of Political Correctness people are reacting to is the
Richelieu-esque "give me six lines and I'll find something to be offended by"
behaviour that is all to common now days.

~~~
tonyedgecombe
That's also the kind of political correctness that isn't very common at all.
There is always a small slither of truth in the claims but they are amplified
many times to achieve the ends.

~~~
yourbandsucks
Yeah, the article was highlighting a noisy fringe who presume to speak for all
liberals and react with extreme venom to any dissent. They are annoying and
counterproductive, yet have somehow found a lot of purchase in the tech
community.

I think we should all tell them to knock it off, rather than being intimidated
by their bullying.

------
scoom
That's because Americans are a massive bunch of snowflakes offended at the
mere thought of people having different views from them.

~~~
toomuchtodo
My understanding is that the PC culture backlash is the intolerance of
“snowflakes”, which I’d define as individuals who place the value of opinions
over fact, are unable to entertain both sides of an argument at the same time,
believe safe spaces and trigger words are more important than freedom of
speech, or are unable to tolerate criticism or the expression of ideas
drastically different than their own.

This is just scratching the surface without talking about the possible use of
diversity and inclusion efforts as sanctioned discrimination.

~~~
happytoexplain
Your definition consists of one description that distinguishes "snowflakes"
(safe spaces, etc), and three general, similar flaws that apply equally well
to their counterparts within the "anti-PC" crowd. I think that's probably the
(sarcastic) point the parent comment was making.

------
charlesism
The author is Yascha Mounk. I've listened to his podcast for a while:
[https://player.fm/series/the-good-
fight-1528359](https://player.fm/series/the-good-fight-1528359) It's really
good.

------
malvosenior
> _Compared with the rest of the (nationally representative) polling sample,
> progressive activists are much more likely to be rich, highly educated—and
> white. They are nearly twice as likely as the average to make more than
> $100,000 a year. They are nearly three times as likely to have a
> postgraduate degree. And while 12 percent of the overall sample in the study
> is African American, only 3 percent of progressive activists are. With the
> exception of the small tribe of devoted conservatives, progressive activists
> are the most racially homogeneous group in the country._

This is one of the problems I have with the modern progressive movement. All
of the most privileged people I know are also the only people I know who
constantly complain about privilege.

It definitely comes off as upper middle class in-group signaling and more than
a little grating. Especially when the unrelenting target of said complaining
are practitioners of STEM.

~~~
growlist
Indeed. I'll start 'checking my privilege' once I see some evidence I've
benefited from that, as opposed to risk taking and thousands of hours of hard
work.

~~~
romwell
Oh really?

The whole point is that people who don't have your privileges _can 't afford
to take as many risks_, _the same hard work has a smaller payoff_ , and _the
cost of a mistake is higher_.

Privilege doesn't mean getting where you got was easy. It means that for those
that don't have it, it's _way, way, way harder_ to get to the same place.

~~~
growlist
All I have is my own experience here, and at least in the UK I've almost never
witnessed any kind of prejudice keeping people down - on the contrary, IT is
crying out for women, ethnic minorities etc - with one major exception: the
class system, which without question still matters when going for jobs in e.g.
the City. However, not being a posh boy from grammar school, I don't benefit
from that.

~~~
DanBC
> and at least in the UK I've almost never witnessed any kind of prejudice
> keeping people down

You haven't been paying attention.

Black people are more likely to be subject to stop and search than white
people. In particular for drugs even though they use drugs at a lower rate
than white people. Despite knowing about this injustice for years rates have
got worse. [https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/oct/13/racial-bias-
poli...](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/oct/13/racial-bias-police-stop-
and-search-policy-black-people-report)

Black people are more likely to be detained under the MH Act, more likely to
be subjected to restraint and rapid tranquilisation, and more likely to be on
a community treatment order. This is probably racism.
[https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/independent-review-
of-t...](https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/independent-review-of-the-
mental-health-act)

[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-health-
act...](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-health-act-
independent-review)

Black carribean pupils are excluded at 3 times the rate of white pupils, and
this is probably racism. [https://www.ethnicity-facts-
figures.service.gov.uk/education...](https://www.ethnicity-facts-
figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/absence-and-
exclusions/pupil-exclusions/latest)

Black doctors get paid less than white doctors; BAME health care professionals
have complaints investigated more often than their white collagues and those
complaints are more often upheld. THis is probably racism.
[https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/01/31/amitava-banerjee-
instit...](https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/01/31/amitava-banerjee-
institutional-racism-is-still-a-major-problem-in-the-nhs/)

~~~
growlist
I've never witnessed it personally is what I said, so a wall of references
doesn't really add much.

~~~
romwell
It certainly adds more to the discussion than your lack of anecdata, don't you
think?

------
Latteland
I don't understand pc the way this article kinds of defines it, but what I
experience is people making clear racist comments and then defending it by
claiming I'm worried about being politically correct.

My (family member that I want to avoid exposing) is an Archie Bunker cliched
conservative. When he gets mad he might throw out the N word. He tries to
defend it some times by saying rappers use it in songs. I told him it's always
offensive (we are white for what it matters). He might claim that this is just
being politically correct. When he was a kid this person must have heard their
parents use it.

Maybe I'm on the other side of the pc maginot line, but I think using that
word is pretty much always wrong, I don't like it when it's music. I don't
like similar words for Jewish people, or immigrants from certain countries or
words to denigrate muslims. This feels very different than the "new word to
judiciously refer to a group of people that I don't know about" that feels
like a different kind of thing that is also attacked as PC (e.g., Latinx).

~~~
paulddraper
> When he gets mad he might throw out the N word.

> I told him it's always offensive

It is always offensive. Just like f--ker, s--thead, a--hole, etc. are always
offensive.

Yet somehow, you rarely see a ruckus made over those.

~~~
Latteland
Okay, it's always been obvious to me that those words are unacceptable, but I
am trying to be open minded for other people's ideas in the discussion of pc
culture. Maybe there's another view?

~~~
Chazprime
_This American Life_ did a great podcast entitled “Words You Can’t Say”
earlier this year; might be good primer for you (it’s also available on
iTunes):

[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/637/words-you-cant-
say](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/637/words-you-cant-say)

~~~
Latteland
I know these words are unacceptable. It's the very conservative person in my
family who insists we are unfairly complaining about his racism, he calls it
tone policing or some other bs - it's just using racist words, exposing his
soul.

------
randyrand
...and the main reason why Trump won.

Too bad it doesn’t seem like we’ve made much progress on PC culture
ridiculousness since then.

~~~
happytoexplain
I'd argue (with no malice) that there's just as big a problem, if not a bigger
problem, on the opposite end of the spectrum, where having any reaction at all
to one's self or others being insulted, attacked, or mocked will draw hateful
calls of "snowflake", "safe space", etc. Even the president mocks and insults
individuals who haven't done anything to deserve it, which is a pretty
dramatic problem. People might disagree on which side has the "bigger"
problem, but they both do have big problems, and communication will always be
absolutely impossible as long as those problem attitudes remain so common.

