
Orkney islands could get first electric plane service - m-i-l
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-45876604
======
Theodores
The Orkney Isles are setting the example in the UK. Going green and making
progress with it is also quite good for the community, not to mention the
balance sheet. Another future is definitely possible and the folks in the
Orkney Isles are an inspiration.

The Fully Charged Show on YouTube has been following progress for years, here
is a recent three part series on wind, hydrogen and big batteries in the
Orkney Isles:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rybpaqhg5Qg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rybpaqhg5Qg)

I highly recommend liking, subscribing and giving a thumbs up to Fully Charged
Show. Anyone that enjoyed Red Dwarf or Scrapheap Challenge will know the
presenter.

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jarofgreen
Just to make clear something that may be puzzling folk: the famous Westray /
Papa Westray link is NOT the only route this plane serves! This plane serves
many islands in Orkney: check out the schedule on
[https://www.loganair.co.uk/travel-information/orkney-
inter-i...](https://www.loganair.co.uk/travel-information/orkney-inter-island-
services/)

This is really cool to see. Orkney has really pushed renewable energy and in
fact, on some days they make more than they can use and export!

~~~
NeedMoreTea
I thought generating more than they can use or export was the default for
Orkney now?

Which is why they're leading the pack adopting EVs, heat pumps, community heat
schemes etc, and the hydrogen plan for the ferries. They have to find
something to do with it all, or turn off some wind turbines and solar. So
they're migrating every remaining use of fossil fuel possible. Which seems a
much better plan than anywhere else.

All that for a tiny fraction of the fuel bills the rest of the UK pays. I wish
the mainland was a little more inspired to blatantly copy. :)

~~~
skybrian
Have the crypto miners found them yet?

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Already__Taken
Amature here; Aircraft engines aren't just rated by hours-ran but also cycles.
That being start-Takeoff/landing-stop. Maintenance and part life is specified
X hours or Y Cycles.

I would think there's no reason to apply any of that to an electric power
plant. So can anyone familiar with the topic enlighten if this might have much
impact to the cost/benefit going on?

~~~
berti
Electric plant is also stressed by higher loads (thermal mainly, which has a
number of downstream effects), and cyclic thermal stress would lead to cycle
limits just the same. You also still have a lot of mechanical components just
the same as combustion engines.

~~~
tialaramex
> You also still have a lot of mechanical components just the same as
> combustion engines.

This certainly wasn't true for cars, a fully electric vehicle is simpler,
resulting in an immediately noticeable reduction in maintenance overhead - are
you sure it will be different for aeroplanes?

Keep in mind that the combustion engine of a propeller aeroplane will have an
entire electrical system as part of the combustion engine because it turns out
even most private pilots are not inclined to get out and start the propeller
by hand ever time.

~~~
VBprogrammer
I think, if I'm conceiving of this properly in my head, that electrically
powered props would alleviate the need for variable pitch propellers; a
complicated affair involving oil pressure and governors. Since the torque
curve of an electric motor is flat I don't think it'd be needed. Although a
feathering system may still be required to twin engine electric planes.

~~~
votingprawn
There would still be benefits to variable pitch propellers with an electric
motor (motor efficiency, correct propeller pitch for the airspeed to name
two).

I work in the UAV industry and would adopt variable pitch in an instant if it
didn't come with complexity and weight penalties!

~~~
VBprogrammer
Interesting. I've always thought of variable pitch propellers as being more
efficient by allowing the engine to stay at it's peak horse power. For a
piston engine this is obviously at the peak of the nice curve you'll see on
any dyno run. A fixed pitch propeller sized for climb would allow the engine
to run above this speed in cruise and vise-versa if it were pitched for
cruise.

Now an electric motor has maximum torque at 0rpm (stalled) and practically no
torque at it's no load speed. The relationship in-between is practically
linear. So long as the motor was matched and / or geared so that during all
stages of flight the RPM stayed within a reasonable band I don't see what the
advantage is. Maybe some second order effects of efficiency at lower speeds
perhaps.

Edit: Actually, thinking again, it's the exact same reason that cruising at
the lowest possible RPM for the required power output in a piston engine is
typically the most efficient. Just less friction. Still think it'd be a
smaller effect given we're talking roller bearings rather than plain bearings
and piston rings.

~~~
votingprawn
Even if you disregard motor efficiency (which I don't, as with a battery
powered vehicle you treasure every Wh more than you treasure every gram of
fuel!), propeller efficiency is also important. Ideally you want to match your
motors power handling and efficiency with your propeller. A given
propeller/motor combination will have a design point in terms of
torque/airspeed/rpm, and operating significantly outside of that (e.g. having
a power system designed for cruise but operating at zero airspeed) has
penalties.

Unfortunately I'm traveling at the moment, but I spend a large amount of my
time at work balancing propellers and motors and could provide some plots that
might help explain this. One of the few things years of working in academia
proved to me, is that I'm terrible at explaining things like this!

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syntaxing
Is there a fully released (non-experimental license) electric aircraft out
there right now? A couple years ago I saw that a lot of companies wanted to
create a "short" flight electric plane but I have not seen any with a full
plane license/cert.

~~~
alex_duf
I don't know what "non-experimental license" means as I don't know the
industry very well, but wouldn't the Pipstrel Alpha Electro be what you're
talking about?

or are you talking about larger planes?

[https://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-
electro/overview](https://www.pipistrel.si/plane/alpha-electro/overview)

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royjacobs
It would be really interesting to see if they can make this viable and
reliable.

Side note: no disrepect intended, but when reading the names of some of the
islands it feels like they're written in pig Latin.

~~~
smackay
The names are either old celtic or norse names. If you check out the Wikipedia
page for Papa Westray,
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Westray](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Westray),
then follow the links you get quite a history on the origins of the names.

~~~
tom_mellior
Specifically, the -ay, -ey, -øy suffixes that evoke Pig Latin mean "island" in
places that had Norse presence. See
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ey#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ey#English)
and
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ey#Old_Norse](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ey#Old_Norse)

------
7000skeletons
Orkney and the Shetland Isles are actually some of the wealthiest regions of
the UK, so it makes sense that they might be able to get something like this
off the ground.

~~~
ljf
Some more on this statement: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-
scotland-27138927](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27138927)

~~~
m-i-l
To clarify - it is wealth of the council, not average wealth of individual
residents. Bear in mind also that the cost of living is very high, given most
products have to be imported from the mainland. For example, the Shetland
Islands has some of highest petrol prices in the UK despite being the site of
the largest oil terminal in Europe (oil has to be exported for refining).

