
Ask HN: Considering quitting my day job to work on my startups  - podman
I launched two start ups about three months ago while still working a full time job. I honestly hoped that things would progress slowly with them and I wouldn't be overwhelmed or burn out. That turned out to not be the case. After launching, I no longer control the pace of things that go on and I find myself constantly focusing on them instead of my day job. My productivity over the past couple of weeks has dropped to almost nothing because I'm coding all day and all night. I'm not really even interested in the projects I'm working on at my day job anymore either. There are really two things that are holding me back right now:<p>1) The combined net incomes from both ventures is not enough to fully support my financially right now (not to mention I have partners for both companies so it's not like I can take all of the profit for myself anyway). I've got enough savings to support myself for about a year with zero income, so I've got a bit of a runway to see if things will work out and find a job if I need to, but it's still a large gamble.<p>2) My employer is already trying to hire another developer and has been trying to do so for a few months. Considering how hard of a time they're having finding one developer, I'm concerned that my leaving would put them in a very bad situation. I'm really good friends with everyone at the company and I'm worried that there might be some resentment towards me if I do leave. Then again, I'm not giving them 100% and that isn't fair to them anyway. If I don't quit it's possible that I might be fired down the road anyway.<p>Have any of you gone through this before? Anyone have any advice? Is there anything I'm probably not thinking about that might blindside me down the road?<p>Thanks!
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may
As soon as I saw the word "startups" -- plural -- I thought "he's doomed".
However, while the popular wisdom is to focus soley on one thing, one startup,
I often find that leads to imbalance. Perhaps having two ventures is a good
thing.

What I'm doing right now is a 5-6 hours/day job for the bills and working on
my projects the rest of the day. Balances out pretty well -- I get physically
tired from work and get some social interaction/out of the house/out of my own
head. And the rest of my time -- and all of my headspace -- is free to write
and code.

But, to get back to you, it sounds to me like you really would rather be
working on your projects.

Here's what I'd suggest -- you don't want to leave your boss in the lurch, and
you still need some money -- so why not just talk to your boss about working
reduced hours, say half-time, so you can help them and have more time for your
startups?

~~~
rmk
Good suggestion. Perhaps you need to hang around to help the new programmer
for a couple of months to ensure a smooth handover?

~~~
may
Exactly. That part was implied, I just forgot to say it. ;)

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arn
Here's my advice regarding sorting out #1 vs #2. The question in my mind is
how much each factor is. When I quit my day job, the social pressures/burning
bridges aspect of it was a part of my reluctance. But, of course, more
financial instability was another.

In the end, I asked myself "if I could snap my fingers, and tomorrow be out of
my day job, without having to go through the social awkwardness of quitting,
etc.... Would I do it?" My answer was an instant "yes". That showed me that
any threat of the financial instability was not a real concern, but just an
excuse for me not wanting to burn bridges.

After that, I was entirely confident in my decision to quit.

~~~
podman
This is really good advice. I'm worried about not only what my coworkers and
bosses will think and what that will do to our friendship, but also what my
parents will think. If those weren't an issues I'm pretty sure I would quit
without hesitation. The money is an issue, but ultimately I'm confident I'd be
able to find a job if it were clear neither of my start ups were going to work
out.

~~~
arn
well, the next question question is will you regret not doing this in 10
year's time? I know it's a cliche to say you only live once, but you really
need to think about it in those terms. I didn't want to look back and regret
not taking the opportunity. Is this is just-now opportunity? Will this
opportunity be there down the line?

I had similar concerns about family and co-workers. In the end, everyone at
work was very nice about it and my family was surprisingly supportive.

------
Eugene3v
I chose to quit my full time job for the benefit of my own startup, the
difference was I hated the company that I was working for and I hated the
job... In your case I would suggest to look into a part time deal. It seems
like you have a good rapport with your employer and u have the integrity and
the dignity to realize what is fair and such... See, if u can reduce your
involvement with your employer to say 30%.. Just a thought. Good Luck!

~~~
podman
I've considered this, but I'm not sure how they would respond. If I'm open and
tell them I'm not 100% committed to my work there, I'm not sure they'd still
want me to work there anyway. I think I have to be prepared for the worst case
if I even bring up part time with them.

~~~
brianmwang
One thing you may want to consider is proposing a part-time arrangement with
an agreement to end employment permanently at some date. This is, of course,
assuming you are willing to quit the job for good. However, this has been
working out quite well for me as it affords me significantly more time to work
on my startup while removing the need to hide intentions at the day job.

------
answerly
>but it's still a large gamble.

I know it seems like a big gamble room your current vantage point, but it
really isn't. You are an entrepreneurial developer in a tech economy where
that skill set is at a premium (at least in startup hubs like the bay area).
It seems like the worst case scenario is that you end up getting a job at
another startup if your projects don't work out.

Good luck!

~~~
jonsmock
The only pushback is that you are risking your savings on this, so it's still
a big decision (maybe not _gamble_ exactly, depending on how you look at it).
There's always opportunity cost at risk.

However, I know I personally work best when I focus on one thing, or at most
two. Seems like you have too much on your plate, so I would recommend cutting
something as soon as you reasonably can.

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wccrawford
Either get your head back in the game, or quit. You aren't doing your employer
-any- favors by taking his money when your productivity has "dropped to almost
nothing".

~~~
smokinn
_You aren't doing your employer -any- favors_

Normally I'd agree but in this specific case it sounded like he's the only
developer. Being around just so fires can be quickly put out and so that you
can transfer knowledge when the new hire arrives is definitely worth something
to the employer.

~~~
podman
There are actually three other developers so it wouldn't be the end of the
word for them, so to speak.

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edge17
A good friend of mine told me that, the minute I start affecting my personal
brand and reputation negatively at a job, I need to start thinking about what
to do next. The worst thing is to leave on a low note than a high note.

If you think leaving the job is inevitable, then you should start preparing
for that - i.e. work hard, because the last memories in their minds will be
the ones that stick the most.

I've been through this, and I have an open invitation to return to an old job
because of it. For now I've left it all and I'm building my own company. Just
make sure you understand your costs, and make sure you have health insurance.
Don't buy into all the crap about - i'm young, i'll just buy the cheapest
insurance on the market. The insurance is for the things you don't expect. Not
being able to eat or pay rent are small problems, but neither can bankrupt
you. Medical costs can. My buddy broke his leg on a mountain; fortunately he
has insurance, but if he didn't the costs would have bankrupted him. He's a
young and healthy guy otherwise

Also, people start their own companies with far less than 1 year of savings.
You'll find, even if you have 5 years of runway, the prospect of jumping the
safety of your paycheck is going to be terrifying. Once you do it though,
you'll stop thinking about it very quickly. Look at it differently - 1 year of
runway may force you to work harder than ever; you know, necessity is the
mother of all invention.

~~~
podman
How much is decent health insurance these days for someone young, in good
shape, and with no existing conditions?

~~~
edge17
I pay $105 in California from Anthem Blue Cross with a $3500 deductible. After
the deductible, everything's covered... basically, i do my best to stay
healthy, but worst comes to worst, $3500 will be the least of my worries.

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trevelyan
#2 suggests you may be underpaid. I'd go to your boss privately and tell him
you've thinking about leaving to do a startup because you don't feel
challenged at work, and this is hurting your productivity and interest in the
job. All of this is true, you're just afraid to say it because of an innate
desire for conflict avoidance.

Be honest with the people around you about what you want (part of this means
thinking it through yourself...). In a worst case scenario you lose your job.
But if you're really ambivalent about leaving, giving notice like this should
alleviate any guilt over quitting and being honest _should_ keep you on better
terms with people than the alternative. And you never know. Perhaps your boss
will give you a raise or otherwise help solve your motivation problems.

~~~
podman
Money really isn't the issue nor is it the lack of a challenging project. I
have two start ups that are up and running and have paying customers. I
started the two start ups because the opportunity to do so was too good to
pass up. It wasn't because I was unfulfilled at my day job. The reason I'm not
giving 100% is because I'm just more interested in my start ups now and
running them takes more time and cognitive capacity than I can commit in a 24
hour period.

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JimboOmega
I was going to give some other advice, but, given that you have a year of
runway, AND partners, AND revenue... what are you waiting for? Seriously? Do
you have children and/or others who really depend on your income?

My other thoughts:

It strikes me as odd that there are two threads on this theme at once...

I'd recommend going part time (if you really don't want to quit), as another
poster did, if they'll let you (my company did). My company also seemed to be
in the same position as yours at #2, but when I left, it seemed pretty amiable
- and when I came back a year later, they had no room for me.

It's quite possible that the hiring department is incompetent. Anyway, that is
not your concern. Especially if you're not productive there; taking their
money for nothing isn't that big of a favor to them.

------
ulysses
1.) Are either of the startups making any money now? Are there good prospects
for either of them to start making money soon? Do you have any other financial
obligations?

If there are good financial prospects for one or both startups, and you can
live for a year on your savings, and you have no other financial obligations,
I don't see why you wouldn't take the plunge. Even if the startups don't work
out, you will probably have substantially increased your skillset in a year.

2.) On the one hand, you shouldn't screw your current employer. On the other
hand, if they can't find a developer after several months of trying, that's
their problem, not yours.

Try to make the transition as smooth as possible for them, but don't stay just
because they can't hire.

~~~
podman
1) Both start ups are making money now. And my only financial obligations are
rent + utilities + food and misc stuff.

One is B2B and the other is B2C. The B2B obviously has a smaller market but
the ARPU is fairly high. If it continues to grow the way it's growing it
should be able to support me soon. The B2C has a much larger market but the
ARPU is much lower. I'm having a harder time getting traction with that one
but haven't done any marketing. If things go well, it has a lot of potential
to make a lot of money. If both are successful, they should more than be able
to support me.

2) I feel like I'll be screwing my employer either way. If I don't quit or go
part time, I'll be wasting their time and money. If I leave, and they can't
find a replacement, they'll be down a developer for who knows how long.

------
frederikfleck
If your start up is your dream - go for it!

You are much better of then most entrepreneurs: the projects are up and
running and are making some money. A lot of people quit their jobs and then
get started. And a year of runway is even better!

But I agree to the other comments that you should focus on one of the projects
which can really become big.

Re 2: recruit your replacement yourself. Maybe you fins somebody even here in
HN?

~~~
podman
Sure. Job post here: <http://www.photoshelter.com/about/index/jobs/engineer-
php>

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petervandijck
1) If you use up all those savings and things don't work out and you have to
go back to getting a regular job, would you feel good or bad about having done
the whole thing? If good, go for it.

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podman
I should also mention that I have a partner in each of my start ups. So, if I
drop one or both of the start ups, I'll be screwing them over as well.

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martinkallstrom
No doubt, get out of there. One year's runway is plenty and you are not doing
your current employer any favor's by lingering.

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uptown
Okay ... I'll bite. What are your startups?

~~~
podman
<http://www.sproutvideo.com>

<http://www.physicalfix.com>

~~~
jeffclark
I am _really_ digging the idea of charging $1 for the trial. Care to share how
it's effected the quality and quantity of trial users?

~~~
podman
This is actually an idea I took from my current employer. We did this from the
beginning so we don't really have numbers on how it effected our signups. The
real motivator behind was mitigating our costs. The previous company I worked
for was a video hosting company and there were lots of issues with abuse. Lots
of people would sign up for free accounts, upload full tv shows or movies and
post them on popular sites for illegal tv or movie watching. We'd delete these
accounts as quickly as we could, but the second we did that, they would just
open another. The cost of storing, encoding and streaming those videos to get
a few paying users was something we didn't want risk. I can tell you that the
majority of users who have signed up for a trial have yet to cancel their
account. So, I don't know if we're getting less signups, but I have a feeling
the quality is higher.

------
podman
So, just to follow up... I quit today.

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charlesju
Just do it.

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noverloop
I would ask to start working part-time and quit if they won't let you.

~~~
HerraBRE
I'd second this, especially as a temporary measure.

You'll of course have to be prepared to be fired outright, but odds are if you
offer to stay on a while and help them hire and train a replacement, they'll
take you up on it and you'll leave with all your social karma intact - which
means you may be able to come back later if your startups go belly-up.

Social karma has real value that way, it's worth some effort to maintain.

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kapauldo
Are you single and do you have kids?

