
Show HN: Upcall – Triggered Human Phone Calls - leahcim
https://www.upcall.com
======
crsv
I don't see any policies around types of businesses, code of conduct,
adherence to Do-Not-Call policies or information regarding privacy or security
rigor applied to the citizens that would be effected by this platform.

This just seems like an amoral SaaS service I kind of want to die. Fast.

~~~
kposehn
While your commentary around privacy and security is valid (they could indeed
reference that more clearly), referring to them outright as an “Amoral SaaS
service [you] kind of want to die” is extremely judgmental and out of place on
HN.

~~~
crsv
I disagree. I think I laid out a fair argument for my opinion, and I believe I
have the right to express that opinion in our lovely open internet as much as
they have a right to be a thing in the first place. Me wanting this to cease
to exist isn't calling in to question their right to be there in the first
place. I think if we ever lose our voice in calling out things that seem
detrimental to our society at large for the sake of not seeming "judgemental",
then we've devoided all platforms of value - especially HN.

~~~
kposehn
My issue is that you made a blanket judgement of something with seemingly
little input or reasoning. Why do you feel that way? Go into some detail at
the very least, instead of just dismissing it out of hand.

The security questions could be answered by then more easily instead of having
to dig - I get that. But that’s not enough imho.

You have the right to express your opinion, for sure. But when you make a
blanket judgement with little you’re going against HN guidelines:

> Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky.
> Comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets
> more divisive.

> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A
> good critical comment teaches us something.

~~~
gitgud
In my opinion, he did outline a few reasons for why he felt that way, albeit
concise.

The HN guidelines do not expect everyone to be positive. Negative feedback
that's justified is important in any community.

------
_verandaguy
The pricing page seems... bizarre to me.

\- They mention that the tiers have 1, 5, or 10 users supported. Is this
concurrent users? Does "user" even mean phone call recipient in this case, or
is it just someone who's _dispatching_ the Upcall calls?

\- The enterprise tier seems like it should be subdivided; some of the things
you pay for are really, really niche, but likely cost a small fortune to get
set up on Upcall's end, justifying a much higher price. Looking at you, HIPAA
compliance.

\- What is, even, a "Logic Decision Tree" in this context? Is this just the
fact that the caller should offer the recipient a few specific paths? Isn't it
cheaper to do this using a robocall (and widely done this way by many
enterprise phone support systems)?

\- "Custom inbound voicemail" is a weird feature for a company marketing
itself as outreach towards clients rather than the other way around; my
understanding is that this is marketing and reactivation, not support, and
incoming calls should be minimal in most use cases.

\- All the email stuff is probably cheaper being handled by a specialized
standalone service; why try to fracture your business's focus by trying to
enter a space dominated by well-established players? (Not trying to say
competition is bad, but this company clearly specializes in something other
than email, so it makes little sense to me that they should be dividing their
effort like this).

~~~
dqv
>\- They mention that the tiers have 1, 5, or 10 users supported. Is this
concurrent users? Does "user" even mean phone call recipient in this case, or
is it just someone who's _dispatching_ the Upcall calls?

I assumed user to mean people who are the clients (the people paying for the
service) who can login to see the progress of the "call tasks".

>\- The enterprise tier seems like it should be subdivided; some of the things
you pay for are really, really niche, but likely cost a small fortune to get
set up on Upcall's end, justifying a much higher price. Looking at you, HIPAA
compliance.

That's pretty common for this type of service offering. Basically the pricing
is there to give you an idea. You see in the basic plan where it says "Ideal
for Simple Tasks"? That usually means "you can have it your way, but don't get
crazy." Think things like "call and ask Carl if he's coming on Friday" or "let
Lakisha know that her order is finished." Everything else is a custom plan!

\- What is, even, a "Logic Decision Tree" in this context? Is this just the
fact that the caller should offer the recipient a few specific paths? Isn't it
cheaper to do this using a robocall (and widely done this way by many
enterprise phone support systems)?

My take away from the How it Works page leads me to believe that it's for use
with the "scripts". The script changes when the callee answers a certain way.

>\- "Custom inbound voicemail" is a weird feature for a company marketing
itself as outreach towards clients rather than the other way around; my
understanding is that this is marketing and reactivation, not support, and
incoming calls should be minimal in most use cases.

They're banking on people setting the custom caller ID to their actual number.
It's probably just their so there is no "hole" if someone calls back. Certain
types of calls _do_ generate a lot of callbacks.

>\- All the email stuff is probably cheaper being handled by a specialized
standalone service; why try to fracture your business's focus by trying to
enter a space dominated by well-established players? (Not trying to say
competition is bad, but this company clearly specializes in something other
than email, so it makes little sense to me that they should be dividing their
effort like this).

I think it's specific to the use case of contacting new leads. If I were
upcall, my intent would be to scan the emails for specific types of customers
that the client wants to call and start "call tasks" based on that.

------
voidmain
Telemarketing is wrong. You are working to destroy the value of one of the
most marvelous accomplishments of the human race.

~~~
_verandaguy
Telemarketing isn't inherently wrong, IMO, even though it's often poorly-
executed and painfully annoying. In some cases, it's a better way of doing
client outreach than email.

~~~
voidmain
I'm not saying there is no imaginable ethical sales activity that involves a
telephone in some way.

But despite do not call lists etc, I can no longer answer my cell phone when I
don't recognize the number, because of all the unwanted commercial calls,
scams, surveys, etc. Many are falsifying their caller ID data because they
know that everyone would block them if they could.

This product really really looks like it will be used to make that situation
worse. "90% MORE LIKELY TO CONVERT A LEAD if you reach out minimum six times".
Blech.

Somewhere, people are failing to communicate about something important because
these people are pissing in the well.

~~~
pavel_lishin
> * "90% MORE LIKELY TO CONVERT A LEAD if you reach out minimum six times".
> Blech.*

Wow, I can't believe that's actually on there.

~~~
aantix
Why? I’ve heard for email, it’s eight.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Because it's a scummy fucking thing to come out and say - "we'll call people
half a dozen times until they cave and buy whatever garbage you're
offloading."

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kposehn
I see a lot of criticism of this product by referencing it as a telemarketing
solution - it is not.

These are not cold calls: they are inbound leads that you have to source and
have permission to call. If someone fills out a lead form on your site and
checks the “contact by phone” option, this allows you to scale a bit more
rapidly in high-volume top-of-funnel lead gen where you are trying to filter
out unqualified or low-value leads.

Edit: sueders101 pointed out that they reference cold calls. With the TOS in
mind I bet that’s a copy mistake as they require permission to call berg
secured before making a call. Thy definitely could use some copy updates and
calling out security/privacy more clearly.

~~~
sueders101
"These are not cold calls"

When you hover over the solutions options they literally say

"Prospecting: We cold call businesses and generate new leads for you."

~~~
kposehn
Fair. I was referencing the demo and the ToS makes it clear you must have an
Established Business Relationship, which means I’m this case it wouldn’t be
truly cold as there is a lead and permission to call involved.

~~~
sueders101
"you must have an Established Business Relationship"

They say on the prospecting page:

"UPLOAD YOUR LIST: Upload a list of target businesses to call. We can help you
finding one too."

It doesn't sound like you need an Established Business Relationship.

~~~
kposehn
Yeah, it’s not terribly consistent what they require. I do agree they need to
call it out more clearly :)

------
rhacker
Why the heck is this is Show HN? It's a company with 2.2M in funding.

[https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html](https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html)

Also first time submitted was 2 years ago.

------
nickthemagicman
When you said triggered I thought it was angry people making phone calls.

~~~
lainga
Close!- the phone calls are making angry people.

~~~
nickthemagicman
Lol. The Triggered Human team is a crack team of socially insensitive people
with the ability to trigger someone in under 5 seconds.

------
nvr219
I thought this was going to be outsourcing to have someone else call NYTimes
to cancel my subscription.

------
BubbasDad
Wow, you can tell it's Monday! Haters gonna hate. Not sure if it belongs in
ShowHN, but as someone familiar with the company I can say that Upcall
outsources outbound calling for inbound leads. For the uninitiated, that means
people who've requested to be contacted by phone and given their phone number
for that very reason. As a former tech sales exec, I'm always amused by
engineers who think their salary comes out of thin air, or that your VCs don't
expect a profit at some point. Someone has to sell what you're coding, and
that generally involves a phone call, and there is a correlation between deals
closing and the speed with which someone responds to a warm lead. Upcall's
goal is to fill that need.

------
desireco42
I would like to call out YCombinator for supporting this.

It is a slimy business, it is booming at the moment, but there are a lot of
other, healthier ways to make money and I think they built perception to be
better then others for good reason. This just doesn't suit them.

I am open to hear opposing views and explanations, sans kposehn who acts as
these guys advocate here.

------
midnightmonster
The platform overview video is basically a screencast, and 480P is a really
painful resolution for watching small text, even if I open it in YouTube app
instead of the postage-stamp inline size the site tried to show it to me in.
For a service that’s supposed to talk to people for me, the fact that you
apparently could not find anyone to record audio for a 4 min video really
doesn’t inspire confidence.

------
yakattak
I have a hunch these automated call systems that "do things for humans" (like
Duplex, or this) are taking a ride on the Hype Cycle.

------
bdcravens
The calls at Basic level are $0.29/minute. That's only $18/hour, and with
Upcall taking a cut of that, what is the skill and education level if they
have a "100% U.S.-based team"?

~~~
pavel_lishin
What's the problem with a low skill and education ceiling?

~~~
bdcravens
Intrinsically, nothing. However, it seems incongruent with how they're
positioning the product. Presumably a low-skilled and low-educated work force
can fit into a sales pipeline, but the same could be said for doing software
QA, yet we still essentially hire for the edge cases.

------
vortico
Who is this product for?

~~~
dsr_
Companies that don't mind outsourcing their reputation to a third-party
outbound call center.

When I get an unsolicited call, I always ask pertinent questions. If they
can't be answered swiftly, I know that the company doesn't care enough to
properly train their sales critters, and so my trust in them to do anything
properly is significantly decreased.

Pertinent questions might include "how is your software or service
delivered?", "where is the company located?" or "where is your security policy
documented?".

~~~
pavel_lishin
When I get an unsolicited phone call, I typically put my phone down without
hanging up and go on about my business, until they hang up.

