
Apple's free pass on open source  - procyon
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9992358-16.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5
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tlrobinson
Um, WebKit?

Granted they forked and renamed KHTML, and take maybe a little too much credit
because of it, but they really propelled KHTML/WebKit to the top in the last
couple of years. IMHO, WebKit is _the_ premiere browser engine at this point,
and I doubt it would be without Apple's involvement.

~~~
ken
Also: CUPS, Darwin, launchd, Bonjour, BLAST, Headerdoc, ...

Also they call it "open source", and say they love it. You can go to an "Open
Source" webpage at apple.com and see how to download source from CVS, and how
to install and run other open-source programs (like PostgreSQL and MySQL) on
Mac OS X.

It's hard to imagine how a company selling proprietary software could be any
more open-source friendly.

~~~
wheels
I know it appears this way, but Apple really is a huge pain in the ass here.
For a long time you couldn't download tar files of those things on their Open
Source site -- you could only browse file-by-file through the web interface.
This excepted the things that they were trying to push as standards. Most of
the stuff you still can't get from CVS.

It took forever when I was trying to track down the source for their libtool a
couple years back; when I finally did I patched it to use half of the memory
of their version (at the time it was using 1.5 GB just to link some stuff
where I worked) and sent the patches in to mailing lists and filed them in a
bug report. Never heard anything from Apple on either.

The biggest case where that's not true -- where Apple has been pretty
integrated into the community development processes from the beginning isn't
any of the projects you mention -- it's GCC. Usually they just do what they
need to to meet the license requirements.

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tptacek
Isn't this just a huge load of crap? I thought every time one of these got
posted, 5 people from open source projects Apple basically funds chimed in and
said, "just because Apple didn't rename it Apple KHTML doesn't mean they
aren't key contributors".

You know what else isn't open source? PageRank. Shut up, CNet.

~~~
william42
PageRank is an algorithm. (Although it does piss me off that it's patented)

~~~
tptacek
Ok I'm guessing that there's more than a little bit of code that actually runs
that algorithm.

~~~
william42
Honestly, probably just a little bit. It's not that complex of an algorithm.
The really complex stuff is MapReduce.

~~~
tptacek
Can we just agree that there is quite a bit of Google code that is unlikely to
ever be open-sourced? =)

~~~
wallflower
Reddit's open source code excludes the crown jewels of anti-cheating/spam
protection. It's their IP.

~~~
echair
Seems more likely that it's just that they don't want spammers and cheaters to
know what their defenses are.

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Tichy
Not THAT discussion again. If open source developers give away their code for
free, it is free. They shouldn't come around a couple of months later and say
"we do want something back after all".

~~~
notauser
I don't complain when companies chose not to contribute back to open source
projects they use.

I _do_ tend to try and spend my money with companies that contribute back.

~~~
Tichy
Absolutely, I feel the same way. It's just that I think if people claim that
their software is free, they should stand by their word.

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Zev
<http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.3/> might be worth taking a
look through.

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st3fan
"""You can hardly say the name "Apple" without signing an NDA."""

This is so true. The iPhone is out. Everybody can (and could) become an iPhone
developer and download the SDK.

Yet, developers are _still_ not allowed to talk to each other about
programming on the iPhone. Not in public forums. But also not even in person
with you colleague or friend who also downloaded the SDK.

In my opinion they are taking it too far. Way too far. I just don't see the
point of this NDA.

~~~
neovive
You can't even view the iPhone development Getting Started tutorials without
paying $99 to become part of the developer program.

~~~
ralphc
Not true, at least not recently. With just an Apple ID (the same one I use for
iTunes, etc.) I was able to download the iPhone SDK, look at tutorials, build
apps and run them on the simulator. I haven't tried to put anything on an
actual device, I don't have one yet, but the promised-in-the-future ad-hoc
distribution should make that doable for me and my family.

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wbond
I think what is in question here is the "spirit" of open source. Legally you
can do anything with BSD code and some companies just use it without giving
anything back. That isn't breaking the law, but it isn't really being a "good"
member of the open source community.

It seems to me that the issue could be related to the fact that Apple uses a
lot of open source code (granted they do give back), but quite a bit of their
software comes with technology that restricts usage by consumers.

The GPL (v3 even more so than v2) tries to address these types of issues. The
downside being that everything needs to be shared so it reduces private
company incentive to pour money into features/technology that competitors can
just snag.

In the end it is one of the downsides of working on BSD/MIT licensed open
source code. In one sense it is an act of altruism, but it can sting to see
someone snag the code and make lots of money with hardly an acknowledgment in
your direction or to take and use it to restrict people.

~~~
incomethax
It also brings to mind a certain lawsuit involving Psystar and a certain
product clone...

I bear no grudge against Apple, Microsoft, or Google for not 'contributing
enough' to Open Source.

I love it when companies make their products open source, but after all, they
are companies and their primary objective as publicly traded corporations is
to create value for shareholders.

My opinion on the matter is simply, give Microsoft and Google a break.

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boredguy8
"The bigger question, however, is why Apple gets a pass, while I and others
slam Microsoft..."

"I love my Mac. Period." That sortof answers your question, doesn't it? For
good or ill, some people just want to get in on the Apple love fest. But don't
cut off your nose to spite your face: I think Sun's actually done, on the
whole, a decent job at working with and for the open source community. For
both Apple and (sometimes) Google, I merely say: Beware Greeks bearing gifts.

