
Malaysia Airlines MH370: Possible debris in Indian Ocean - qzervaas
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-20/abbott-says-possible-objects-found-mh370/5334314
======
r0h1n
[EDIT] Adding a couple of more recent tweets from Micah Grimes indicating this
_may_ be the end of the search for MH370:

> _JUST IN: @WrightUps from above Indian Ocean says US P-8 crew "getting radar
> hits of significant size;" trying to get visuals on hits._

> _Australian maritime authority official calls objects credible and of
> "reasonable" size; largest object about 24 meters._

======================

ABC journalist David Wright [[0] is currently on the P8 plane that is
searching for the debris.

Here's a tweet [1] from ABC's social media editor who (apparently) must have
spoken to him over voice comms:

> _.@WrightUps from Navy P-8 search plane: "We are just descending through
> clouds right now ... about 1,300 miles southwest of Australia."_

[0] [https://twitter.com/WrightUps](https://twitter.com/WrightUps)

[1]
[https://twitter.com/MicahGrimes/status/446501269155618816](https://twitter.com/MicahGrimes/status/446501269155618816)

~~~
sien
It'd be really interesting to know if Australia picked up some trace of the
plane on the Jindalee over the horizon radar. [0] Check the range there.

The path of the plane may just have touched the radar's range at some point or
some idea of the track may have been worked out.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_Operational_Radar_Netw...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jindalee_Operational_Radar_Network)

~~~
demallien
Probably not. The aircraft would have been at the extreme edge of the radar's
range, and in an area that is probably not getting scanned terribly often.

Jindalee uses a directable beam to scan the area or interest. It takes hours
to do a full sweep of its entire range (bear in mind that with over the
horizon radars you have to do a 2D sweep, not the 1D sweep of a standard line
of site radar). Generally speaking, the radar tends to be targeted on areas of
specific interest, not just randomly sweeping (the sweep pattern depends on
current threat profiles). Maybe if Malaysian authorities alerted Australia
quickly enough they may have pointed the beam to the right area, but as I
understand it the alert didn't start going out until much later. Disclaimer:
ex RAAF radar engineer...

------
grej
Unfortunately even if this is the case (and color me skeptical given the sheer
volume of media misinformation that this story has generated), the cockpit
voice recorder only records the last two hours of data, so regrettably we may
never know what happened in those moments when the flight was diverted, even
if the wreckage is found and the black box is salvageable.

EDIT - Clarification that the cockpit voice recorder (not flight data
recorder) only captures the last two hours. Source:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_voice_recorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_voice_recorder)

~~~
downandout
The CVR only recording two hours is absolutely inexcusable. Why does my iPhone
- $850 retail - have capabilities that far surpass those of a $250 million
modern passenger jet? Hopefully after this incident, public outrage over these
ridiculous technological shortcomings will be the catalyst for legislation.
Throwing in some extra satellite transmission, GPS, and voice recording
capabilities that will hold up even in the event of an electrical issue or
fire, and that cannot be disabled by bad actors, just cannot be this
difficult.

In my view, the moment this plane went off course, or a fire alarm went off or
any other irregularity occurred, a Malaysian Airlines control center should
have been alerted and been able to bring up video of the cockpit, maybe the
passenger cabin as well, and been able to remotely view diagnostic and
positioning data. All of this could easily and cheaply occur via a satellite
internet connection.

 _Edit: For the record, I am not suggesting that plugging a commercial iPhone
into a cockpit would work - I 'm comparing the capabilities of consumer
technology to cockpit technology, which seems woefully inadequate to me._

~~~
grej
Not sure why you're getting downvoted for this comment, but I agree with what
you're trying to say regarding storage. Granted, of course there are some
survivability and hardening considerations to take into account for this
application vs. your iphone, but at it's core we're talking something not too
dissimilar in concept. For reference, this is the link to one of these
products:
[http://www.uasc.com/products/cvfdr.aspx](http://www.uasc.com/products/cvfdr.aspx)

It clearly states that the data for modern CVRs are held in flash storage. For
something that costs thousands of dollars, and is absolutely critical to after
action flight accident discovery, there's no excuse not to capture the voice
data from every flight in full given the current prices of flash storage.

~~~
downandout
_Not sure why you 're getting downvoted for this comment_

Probably because I said I had an iPhone :). Either that or the people
downvoting it thought I was suggesting that we plug an iPhone into the cockpit
and all will be well. I was simply saying that many of these problems have
been solved for use in far less important applications, so it should not be
that big of a stretch to get them into commercial aircraft. The suggestion
that it might be possible in 2014 to install additional memory into a CVR is
apparently such a technological leap that it is worth 5 downvotes :). I cannot
wait for the day when it might not sound so crazy.

~~~
NamTaf
No, it's because you're not considering properly the problem at hand. You're
comparing apples and oranges by comparing consumer hardware capabilities and
the capabilities able to be achieved for a hardened service environment
solution.

It's the same reason why we don't _just_ go and install a new quad core x86 on
rockets for their guidance.

~~~
downandout
So you are saying that there is a hard technological limit of 2 hours on a CVR
because it must be in a hardened container. Got it.

~~~
NamTaf
No, thanks for taking my words out of context. I'm saying that there's a whole
litany of processes and requirements alongside storage capacity that
necessitate limitations. In the case of storage, it will be that certian
memory chips, etc. have not been through the process of hardening them. Just
like how the latest core processor could run all of the equations required to
guide a rocket to orbit, but it sure as hell isn't done on one of them because
a number of other features would be neglected.

Is it _possible_ to get more than 2 hours of memory in a CVR? Sure. Why hasn't
it been done? Due to a variety of other considerations on hand.

------
3327
Well, Finally a credible source of information. Things we take granted in
"western" news organizations and research come to light when you see how
investigation is done in the hands of some people. No disrespect to the
Malaysians I love their country and culture but the authorities did a disaster
of a job handling it all. More disinformation than anything.

~~~
oliyoung
"credible source of information"

you're not Australian are you? ;)

~~~
jfoster
More seriously, does anyone find it odd that the PM of Australia is making
this announcement? For example, if the US Navy found something, I would not
expect President Obama to announce it.

~~~
aaron695
Yes, it's embarrassing. It shows the un-professionalism of the situation.

One assumes the real press conference was delayed so he could do the
grandstanding.

That said, there should have been nothing said at this stage anyway until some
sort of real conformation was performed.

I guess it's all about entertaining the masses who demand their ongoing live
entertainment fix.

~~~
tomcorrigan
You have allowed your political views to cloud your judgement.

Details of the satellite images and retasking of search aircraft would surely
have leaked and the Australian government would have been rightly criticised
for withholding that information had it not been announced.

------
danbmil99
Good thing we've got this covered here on HN, because there's been like a
media blackout on this subject...

------
Steko
Largest piece is 24 meters, location in the zone identified by the NTSB.

------
damian2000
AMSA: One of the objects on the satellite image has been assessed to be 24
metres in size #MH370 #Malaysia

Src:
[https://twitter.com/ABCNews24/status/446508379783974912](https://twitter.com/ABCNews24/status/446508379783974912)

From their press conference, held about 30 mins ago.

------
triggercut
From the photos of the two objects posted on @MicahGrimes
([https://twitter.com/MicahGrimes](https://twitter.com/MicahGrimes))

[http://t.co/gFZJhGfTNG](http://t.co/gFZJhGfTNG)
[http://t.co/SRYeeZfkc2](http://t.co/SRYeeZfkc2)

Distance between: 43:58:34S 090:57:37E 44:03:02S 091:13:27E

is 22.72km according to WolframAlpha

[https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=distance+between+43%3A...](https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=distance+between+43%3A58%3A34S+090%3A57%3A37E+and+44%3A03%3A02S+091%3A13%3A27E)

------
minusSeven
There are just so many stories in the media it is hard to know what to
believe. This airline disappearance is becoming a place for all sorts of
conspiracy theories.

I hope people take cognizance from the disappearance and learn how such a
thing was even possible in our high tech world of today.

------
madads
What are the chances that it is just ocean debris? I would say it's quite
high.

>
> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_garbage_patch](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ocean_garbage_patch)
> ?

~~~
NamTaf
As per that, the vast majority of mass is small and sub-surface, not visible
from satellite or ship.

------
antonius
Hoping this is true and the plane's black box can be located as well.

~~~
kinleyd
It would mean no survivors. So sad.

~~~
hudibras
Unless the debris includes a liferaft.

But I'm not keeping my hopes up.

~~~
thesis
I really hate to be negative about this but isn't this highly unlikely
considering the rafts on the planes have emergency locator radio beacons?

~~~
Trezoid
Other things on the plane also have similar beacons (the flight recorder, most
notably) but have yet to be found, so it's not completely out of the question
that they be deployed but not located.

------
oh_sigh
New theory #239858935: The copilot killed the pilot with an axe, set the plane
onto auto pilot towards the southern seas, then cut his own throat and let the
rest of the passengers die helplessly.

