
Surface Go 2, Surface Book 3, Surface Headphones 2 and Surface Earbuds - caution
https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2020/05/06/introducing-surface-go-2-surface-book-3-surface-headphones-2-and-surface-earbuds/
======
hypersoar
Caveat emptores: With a couple exceptions, Surface devices _cannot be
repaired, nor have the battery replaced_. Not even by Microsoft. iFixit's
repair scores on all the devices, except the Pro X, range from 0/10 to 1/10\.
If you have a problem that would require repair, you need to instead get it
replaced with a refurbished machine. This means you have to back up your
machine and set it all up again on a new one. If you're out of warranty, you
also need to pay hundreds of dollars for this: $250 for a Go, $450 for a Pro
or Laptop, and $600 for the Book or older Pro 4. It's unavailable altogether
for anything older. They trumpeted improved repairability for the Pro X (edit:
and Laptop 3), but I can't find anything suggesting a similar effort for the
Book.

I like my Surface Pro 4 a lot. I initially got it for the pen when I was a
math Ph.D. student. It was great for taking notes and giving lectures. I don't
do that anymore, but the Surface machines still appeal to me as potential
upgrades. But it's tough for me to justify spending north of $1,500 on a
laptop when I can only expect a few years of life from it.

So, _please_ , other laptop makers, _make some 3:2 laptops_. Dell, good job
with that new 16:10 XPS. Microsoft, at _least_ make the damn batteries
replaceable.

~~~
thwave
just a nitpick: the proper plural is "caveant emptores".

~~~
hypersoar
Thanks! Part of me knew that I was gonna burn myself by going for the Latin.

------
vorpalhex
I have a Surface Pro 7, their oversized tablet, after ditching my ipad pro out
of frustration. I wanted something that had a nice pen but still had a real
filesystem and I could easily load comics and movies on, use ssh, and was full
featured enough that I wasn't required to lug a laptop with me.

And the surface pro is.. fine. Hardware wise it's great even, but my issue is
overwhelmingly that Microsoft's default software makes a sad tablet
experience. Their screen keyboards are _garbage_ , the store is lackluster and
the tablet mode does not play nicely with most apps leading to weird issues
like not being able to leave the kindle app once it's fullscreened.

If Microsoft invested a bit more in improving the tablet experience, they
could really eat some of Apple's marketshare.

~~~
nxc18
It might be worth revisiting the Windows 8 interface. It was maligned at the
time but it’sa very fluent, intuitive interface now that people are used to
iPads. The multitasking is exactly the same as iPad now, only difference being
you pull down to close apps instead of up.

I pulled out my original Surface RT yesterday and was surprised to find it has
aged incredibly well - perhaps better in 2020 than it was in 2012, because it
was well ahead of its time.

~~~
aarmenaa
It's not like I did any market research, but I recall people liking the
Windows 8 interface on phones and tablets. My personal impression from playing
with Windows phones in stores was very good. Opinions were (predictably, IMO)
less positive for the same interface on desktops and laptops.

~~~
kipchak
I definitely fell in the latter camp. Working helpdesk there were a couple
"Help my Windows 8 PC is in this weird setting and I can't get to my programs"
tickets. I don't recall it being as easy as it should have been to get out
either.

------
rayshan
There's a picture of the new Microsoft Ergonomic Desktop on The Verge. So sad
that the keyboard is wired and not TKL :( Somewhat normal function keys though
compared to the Sculpt. Mouse is also wired.

[https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/6/21247234/microsoft-
surface...](https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/6/21247234/microsoft-surface-
dock-2-usb-c-hub-keyboard-mouse-price)

[https://cdn.vox-
cdn.com/thumbor/W1Uqdi9jgOACKGZQ_CEJVgGbxdw=...](https://cdn.vox-
cdn.com/thumbor/W1Uqdi9jgOACKGZQ_CEJVgGbxdw=/0x0:2040x1360/1720x0/filters:focal\(0x0:2040x1360\):format\(webp\):no_upscale\(\)/cdn.vox-
cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19946363/ergonomickeyboardbundle.jpg)

~~~
zozbot234
Wired devices are _way_ less fiddly for serious and professional use. No need
to _ever_ bother with pairing with the host, keeping a battery charged, or
anything else; they will just work out of the box, and will keep working for
the foreseeable future.

~~~
GekkePrutser
Yes and it's not like they're going anywhere. Especially on the keyboard the
cable is a non-issue IMO. I highly prefer wired keyboards. The only reason to
have a wireless keyboard is liking the look of a total wire-free desk (which I
don't care about).

And with the mouse it's just a minor annoyance (empty batteries are a bigger
one so I have that wired too).

------
dougmwne
I was looking at the Surface Book 3 specs and it hit me that the value
proposition for discrete graphics has changed significantly if you want to
game on your laptop.

Since Stadia, Geforce Now and other cloud gaming services have launched, I
suddenly have no interest in paying hundreds extra for a gaming capable
laptop, just to make a compromise on weight, battery life or GPU power. I've
been gaming on the cloud services for the past few months, and as long as
you're within a few hundred miles of a cloud rendering location, you're going
to get a far better mobile gaming experience on a thin, light and cheap laptop
than you would on mobile graphics.

I've been enjoying fast-paced platformers, online shooters and action-RPGs on
a 5 year old laptop and wouldn't want to downgrade to mobile graphics. This
actually shocks me that my hardware preferences could have changed so rapidly.
I would have been salivating over the gaming specs of the surface book 6
months ago.

~~~
somestag
I think it's cool people are finding value from these game streaming services.
I remember when I first tried the Steam Link and thought there was some real
potential there, and these services offer an even better convenience
proposition.

Unfortunately, I've come around to the cynical mindset that I will never enjoy
gaming over a streaming service, ever. I cannot stand the input lag, and I
would rather play a game with shoddy graphics than with extra lag, or even
just play a different game entirely. _Maybe_ it's tolerable for games with
zero real-time component, and even then I can feel the stickiness.

Back in the earlier days of large LCD TVs, I was always _that guy_ who had to
make a comment about lag on my friends' TVs. I knew I was being a dick but I
couldn't handle being told there was "no lag" or "barely any lag" when there
clearly was. I guess most people felt like my friends did because for a long
time it was basically impossible to find a TV with reasonable input lag; then,
LED TVs showed up, and basically by coincidence the gaming situation improved.

This is selfish, but I'm worried that as more people come around to cloud
gaming (and the big players push it harder), the non-enthusiast gaming market
will start drying up in favor of the streaming services. I can see a possible
future where consoles die in favor of streaming apps; where some games start
being released as exclusives to a cloud service; where mod support and
community patches die off entirely because they're incompatible with
streaming.

~~~
dougmwne
There must be differences in how people perceive lag, because it's rare that I
notice any from LCDs. I have used a handful of TVs that were noticeably bad,
but it was always solved by flipping them into game mode.

Given how much input lag can exist locally (well over 100ms) it should be
entirely possible to eliminate perceivable lag in cloud gaming if the local
hardware is low latency and the render farm is within a few hundred miles. I
play Stadia from my laptop with a wired xbox controller, so I don't expect my
hardware is adding a ton of lag, and anyway it's not perceivable to me. I just
played through steamworld dig which has quite a few quick-reaction jumping
puzzles and didn't have any issues whatsoever.

~~~
somestag
> There must be differences in how people perceive lag

Yeah, the only conclusion I've been able to come to is that some people are
just more sensitive to lag than others.

If we're talking purely about enjoyment, then being sensitive to lag is
nothing but a drawback. But from a performance standpoint, it's undeniable
that lag has a heavy impact on gameplay. Your reaction time is constant from
the time the light on the screen hits your eyes, so every millisecond you add
to the pipeline from machine-to-screen (and from controller-to-machine) will
strictly add to your reaction time. Sometimes even a very small increase in ms
can change a challenge from "pretty doable" to "almost impossible" if the
reaction time requirement was at the edge of your capabilities to begin with.

Whether or not this is "noticeable" depends on a lot of factors, including
whether or not you've played the same game before on a less laggy setup. I
think you're right that, given the same scenario (even the same skill level),
some people just notice it more than others. Still, a part of me can't help
but believe that it affects people's enjoyment whether they notice it or not.

I would love for a decent study to be done on this, because I think it has
implications far outside gaming. Run an experiment where participants play a
game in identical settings, except lag differs by small increments. At the end
have participants rate their subjective experience, possibly along with their
perception of responsiveness. My hunch is that even small differences in
responsiveness would have a strong impact on experience, even if the
participants don't notice anything "wrong."

------
madjam002
I have a Surface Book 2 15” with the max specs and it is not worth the price
to me. Compared to the new MacBooks I much prefer the Surface Book’s
ergonomics and keyboard, but the performance is just too unreliable, it
frequently thermal throttles and also randomly slows down to a snails pace.
Plus now the back has been getting unusually warm even when idling on both my
Windows 10 and Linux dual boot, it never used to do that. I’ve only had it for
13 months and it’s already showing its age.

I don’t understand how my desktop i5 4690k with an old SATA SSD is SO much
faster than this laptop that has an 8th gen i7 8650u, DDR4, NVMe SSD, even for
basic tasks like having more than 20 browser tabs open and just surfing the
web.

~~~
Infinitesimus
> I don’t understand how my desktop i5 4690k with an old SATA SSD is SO much
> faster than this laptop that has an 8th gen i7 8650u, DDR4, NVMe SSD, even
> for basic tasks like having more than 20 browser tabs open and just surfing
> the web.

The surface book is in a strange bind. the 8650 is much much weaker than your
4690k and has very little thermal room to play with. The thermals are
particularly tricky because the CPU lives in the tablet portion; meaning there
is a tension between cooling it properly, providing a touch screen and keeping
it thin and light enough to not have awkward weight distribution.

~~~
madjam002
Yup that's what I've found, unfortunately for me I realised this after
purchasing it. It's odd that it's marketed as a high end performance laptop
whereas it's more comparable to a low-mid range desktop.

~~~
dr_zoidberg
Just from the power envelope (88W for the desktop vs 15 for the 8650u in the
surface book 2, assuming it's configured to that setting -- edit: it is) the
desktop part would be 80% faster, if all things were equal.

Now all things aren't equal. The mobile chip is going to be thermally limited,
while a desktop chip has a huge heatsink and fan to it's service, and a lot of
room to be "just warm". Despite whatever architecture improvements (and take
those with a grain of salt, remember that skylake and its descendants are the
most affected by the Spectre/Meltdown mitigations) you still have physics
against you and the desktop part should be 50% faster simply because it can
keep the turbos up and higher frequencies than a TDP-restrained mobile
processor.

It'd seem that, today, only the AMD Renoirs are capable of pulling "desktop-
like performance on a mobile budget". Let's hope AMD keeps bringing good chips
out, and Intel wakes up and stands with something decent, unlike what they've
been doing so far.

\-- edit:

Since I was already editing: of course a Ryzen whatever is going to be also
TDP-limited compared against other Ryzens, but AMD isn't really making the
mobile parts completely equivalent to the desktop parts. So yes, calling a
Renoir "desktop performance" is massively ignoring AMD "super powerful"
desktop chips.

More reason to hope Intel gets up and starts giving a fight here. We need
competition, otherwise AMD will turn the tables and will get back to a
stagnant situation.

------
no_wizard
Is it weird I'm absolutely excited over the new desktop bundle for the
erognomic keyboard and mouse? I have absolutely come to love the Microsoft
erognomic keyboard and mouse set, so I look forward to snapping it up so that
I can replace my much much older version of those products.

When it comes to those two accessories, for me at least, I think they're such
a great value for such a low price!

~~~
EForEndeavour
Is the new mouse still used with the palm facing down? What specifically makes
it ergonomic?

I'm looking to stave off some looming wrist RSI, and have latched onto the
idea that a vertical mouse (Evoluent, Anker, and Logitech are probably the
most popular manufacturers) is the best solution short of switching to a
different device type, like a trackball.

~~~
2OEH8eoCRo0
Have you tried exercising? Between reading Sarno's book and regular exercise /
activity all pains everywhere are gone.

Everyone seems to immediately try to jump to some device that is going to fix
all of their problems without actually taking care of themselves or changing
their habits first.

~~~
GekkePrutser
That's a bit difficult right now :)

Seriously, since we have been in lockdown for 2 months my wrists are much more
sensitive. I did use the powerball for a bit but I don't have the patience for
brainless exercise. I love walking in nature.

~~~
2OEH8eoCRo0
Since this started I've been doing 100 burpees a day to make up for never
going anywhere. Takes less than 20 minutes. I hate repetitive exercise as well
but I don't see it as optional.

------
lvspiff
Microsoft appears to be pricing their hardware in line with Apple now? $1599
starting price for the Book? I get the quality and the features are up there
but the price is unappealing.

the surface Go even starts at a reasonable $399 but then to add a dock is
$250? The dock is is 62.5% the cost of the computer? That seems rather steep

~~~
madeofpalk
I think that’s always been Microsoft’s point of the Surface line. The PC
market is flooded with cheap laptops, and Microsoft wanted something premium
to compete against Apple.

~~~
alharith
Well step one should be to create a product that competes.

~~~
pjmlp
Given the technical specifications of Apple's laptops it is not that hard for
many of us.

------
jordanthoms
Interested to try the new Surface Go - we brought one of the original ones as
a test device and was quite disappointed. The performance, especially for web
browsing, is far behind that of cheaper Chromebooks, even though it had more
powerful hardware.

~~~
disabled
Agree with the other reply 100%. If you payed for the upgraded Surface Go, it
works excellently, and runs pretty well when you break out of Windows S mode.

I use it for travel and more portable uses. I specifically use it to read via
screenreader (Kurzweil 3000--works best on Windows), when I need something
more portable. I even got one for my mom for Mother's Day last year and she
uses it as her primary Windows laptop.

It is better than spending $180 for the cheapest Windows laptop that you can
get, due to the tablet form factor, durability, and portability. Sure, the
battery is not replaceable but this is livable.

~~~
nailer
> If you payed for the upgraded Surface Go, it works excellently

Personally, just using the new Edge and a few tabs on the high-end, 8G Surface
Go 1, it still lags.

------
odiroot
> Our active noise cancellation is adjustable through intuitive on-ear dials
> and specifically tuned to [..] block out [..] human voices.

If only someone confirmed this working, I'll be buying them in an instant.

------
whywhywhywhy
From the Surface Book 3 launch video: "Rendered on Surface Book 3".

That's how you sell a Pro machine.

------
Roritharr
If they are still refusing to put Thunderbolt 3 ports in, they could have put
the far better Ryzen Chips in...

~~~
wslh
What is the reason to not putting Thunderbolt 3? I still prefer the XPS 13
with 2 TB port + 1 USB Type-C.

~~~
nimish
Apparently DMA attacks (thunderclap et al).

~~~
whereistimbo
But Windows 10 in 2019 included Kernel DMA Protection to mitigate thunderclap
etc

------
ripley12
It’s disappointing that the SB3 seems to have the same screen and trackpad as
the SB2. The screen has so much glare compared to the MBP and XPS, it makes
dark mode unusable in most lighting situations. The trackpad is small and
mediocre, it can’t reliably pick up two-finger right clicks. It’s a shame
because I think the hardware is otherwise great.

------
halotrope
As a former Surface Book 2 user I really hope this update includes good
antireflective coating or even a laminated display. The Surface devices are
great but the display while beautiful on its own is just too damn reflective.
Ultimately abandoned the device because of the reflectivity.

------
ArmandGrillet
I got a Magic Keyboard for my iPad Pro 2018 and sent it back, now I'm thinking
about selling the iPad to buy a Surface Go 2: kickstand included, WSL 2 when
needed, keyboard with a function row.

My only worry is that the experience in tablet mode is gonna be subpar.

~~~
the_mitsuhiko
> I got a Magic Keyboard for my iPad Pro 2018 and sent it back

May I ask why?

~~~
eludwig
Apologies for jumping in here, but hopefully parent will answer your question.

I have noticed that a lot of the reviews & comments about the new Magic
Keyboard for iPad Pro are separated by size. People who have the 12.9 seem to
be much happier (on the whole) than people who have the 11. I have the 12.9
and I love it. The keyboard is fully as large as a laptop keyboard and the
trackpad is smaller than a MacBook's, but still very usable. The 11 users
complain that many of the keys are too small and the track pad is just too
teeny to use reasonably.

Obviously, physical input devices are very personal and have much to do with
your hand size, your height, etc.

I will say that one downside is that the case is heavy. It makes the 12.9
fully as beefy as the 13 inch MacBook Pro. The upside is that the ease of
pulling the iPad away from the case encourages using the iPad naked (when a
keyboard isn't needed), which is so nice for lap browsing, comic reading, etc.

~~~
eanzenberg
I have the 11 and am very happy with it, beside the price.

------
ArtWomb
I got to play with the 50" Surface Hub and it blew my mind. Even if a bit
laggy and not altogether precise with gestures. 4K video, pressure sensitive
drawing, handwriting recognition and indexing. Going back to a 15" screen felt
strange afterwards. Very "Minority Report". I believe there is a large format
85" Surface due shortly ;)

------
tdhttt
They featured WSL in the Surface Book video! And terminal is in the dock!

------
blakesterz
Those earbuds look like they'd fit worse than Apple's. I wonder if I have
funny shaped ears, but nothing fits right. Those Pixel Buds look like things
that would fit with the way they have those hooks or whatever they're called.
It must be really hard to design these things to fit a wide range of ears.

~~~
PascLeRasc
Have you tried IEMs? I have ears where regular earbuds don't fit well too,
Apple's are incredibly uncomfortable for me. But IEMs like the Shure SE215 fit
really well and I barely notice them. The Meelectronics X6 works great for a
pair of cheap Bluetooth gym headphones too.

~~~
texasbigdata
Or even better CIEMs if fit is a goal :)

------
bluedino
>> Our active noise cancellation is adjustable through intuitive on-ear dials

My only real complaint about my Sony noise-cancelling headphones are the
stupid touch controls, why would Microsoft copy those?

~~~
kbumsik
They are physical dials, not touch though.

------
harrygeez
I was really hoping that Microsoft would tweak the design of Surface Book 3
and change the hinge, this spec bump is a little underwhelming after all this
wait

~~~
cercatrova
Time to wait another 3 years.

------
xiphias2
Isn't it better to go with a 7nm AMD Ryzen 4000 based laptop nowdays?

For example a Ryzen 5 4500U is also Quad-core with 8 hyperthreads, but has a
2.3GHz base clock.

------
deathhand
The Surface Book 3 may give the XPS 7390 a run for the money for the high end
enterprise users. My initial concerns will be heat, weight and build quality.
XPS metal body feels great and is durable. I wonder how this will compare.

~~~
Ididntdothis
I use a Book 2 as daily driver but to be honest I would prefer the HP ZBook I
had before. The Book is very unstable with multiple monitors, the docking
station constantly runs out of USB resources, when I detach the tablet and
reconnect the display settings get messed up and I spend ten minutes
reconfiguring and overall it lacks speed compared to its configuration. Really
not a good experience for a pricey high end laptop.

~~~
RankingMember
I've had the same experience, the thing eventually becomes a nightmare with
display issues if you're using the dock, which I think most are. We also have
had multiple people's Surface Book 2 batteries start to swell to the point
that the lid is parabola when you close it. I've recently had a show-stopper
charging issue too, which is very obnoxious when you're in the middle of work.

------
epmaybe
I wish we had device convergence without fancy tricks like Android/Windows
link or iOS/Mac Handoff. I'd love to be working on a document on my phone, put
it in laptop mode to write in a more desktop-like environment for multitasking
or putting PDFs side by side, and then docking at home for a full desktop
experience.

So far, it seems like Samsung DeX (is the X capitalized?) is the closest for
me, but with them killing Linux on DeX, it seems like it won't come to pass.

Or maybe I just need to suck it up and get LTE data plans for all of my
devices.

~~~
WorldMaker
Windows Phone 10 "Continuum" was pretty great, as brief as it lasted. It is
too bad Microsoft gave up on trying for phones running Windows.

~~~
epmaybe
Yeah, I had the opportunity to try it out as well and was impressed. I just
wish there were more staying power in features like that. DeX is nice too but
again we run a risk of the company shutting it down due to a lack of users.

------
awinder
"People tell us that putting on headphones is today’s equivalent of shutting
the office door to focus and connect in any setting"

1\. What's an office 2\. What's an office door

~~~
oblio
0\. What are open plan offices? 0'. What are the most popular office plans?

------
juped
Microsoft has been trying to make pen input "a thing" since at least 2000 when
they started selling "tablet PCs", and as a result their pen input has become
really excellent over the years. The segmentation of the Surface brand is
confusing as hell and I'm still not sure which is which despite being invested
in it.

------
throwawaysea
I am really disappointed that the Surface Books do not have a stronger GPU.
After waiting two years for an update, I was hoping to see strong GPUs that
would make this a swiss army knife laptop - something that is portable, has
great battery life, but can also be used for gaming or machine learning work.

Unfortunately it appears that Microsoft will not sell the Quadro version of
this laptop to individuals and only make it available through their commercial
channels ([https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/surface-
boo...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/surface-book-3)). I
verified this in a chat with a sales rep.

~~~
phonon
It will probably show up here eventually.

[https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/store/b/surfaceforbusiness](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/store/b/surfaceforbusiness)

------
Eduard
Those Earbuds look like a piercing plug / flesh tunnel. Hard to imagine they
will sell well.

~~~
matsemann
An ugly look didn't stop Airpods from selling like crazy, though.

~~~
partiallypro
Airpods are a status symbol (somehow, even though everyone has them?) So I
doubt Microsoft will get the same appeal.

~~~
lotsofpulp
You are claiming AirPods are a status symbol, and you’re claiming everyone has
them. Which is a contradiction.

They are not a status symbols. I see people working at fast food restaurants,
in college, and other lower paid occupations with them. I also see them with
iPhones and MacBooks and apple watches. But these devices aren’t that
expensive.

I don’t see them and think “this person must have access to a lot of credit or
be related to someone rich”. That might be reserved for having a nice home in
an expensive neighborhood.

And in my experience, the utility and longevity derived from most Apple
products far outweighed the extra few hundred dollars spent initially, so the
amortized cost is much lower. I type this from an iPhone 6 bought in 2014,
which at the time was the most expensive phone. But I didn’t buy it to be a
status symbol.

~~~
EForEndeavour
Oh, AirPods are status symbols, all right. Not exclusively, of course (I mean,
they _work_ , and pretty well at that), but they signal that the wearer
belongs to the in-group of the young, hip, and cool.

~~~
lotsofpulp
Based on my experiences, it would not signal that. I've seen people of many
different backgrounds wearing them. Maybe more young than old, but that' just
a general trend with technology. I wouldn't say if I saw someone wearing them
they were "hip" or "cool".

~~~
EForEndeavour
In my experiences, they absolutely do signal that, so our anecdata cancel out.

Maybe this article will provide a starting point to shed light on the fact
that AirPods have certainly become status symbols:
[https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-airpods-most-
important...](https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-airpods-most-important-
product-after-iphone-q3-earnings-2019-7)

I don't really know how else to illustrate that fact. Maybe there are peer-
reviewed sociological or ethnographic studies out there that will specifically
state this fact, but I haven't found any. But the world exists outside of the
contents of peer-reviewed science.

------
maelito
The perfect device for me : the Surface Pro X's hybrid tablet format, with no
chip inside, as your smpartphone is the chip, that lets you use Android (for
everyday tasks and some pro tasks) or a full GNU/Linux.

A poor version of this, but already worth using : Samsung Dex with a portable
monitor, with UserLand or Andronix.

Portable monitors are way behind the Surface Pro X (e.g. for pencil
management), Samsung doesn't invest enough money on Dex and UserLand /
Andronix lack some features (a good VNC client seamlessly integrated /
hardware acceleration)

~~~
agentdrtran
This was tried by Motorola a while ago but it didn't really take off.

~~~
maelito
My phone is now more powerful than the XPS 13 I used in 2017. Same with the
SPX.

It changes everything.

------
GekkePrutser
Would the Go 2 run Linux OK?

I had a Surface Pro 3 for a while and though I got Linux running on it, I
never managed all the tablety stuff working properly. Rotation, Pen + Touch
input (at the same time without randomly cutting out!!), auto keyboard popup
on input fields with no keyboard connecting, the keyboard actually working
after being removed and reconnected, etc etc...

It was a great machine but Linux lacked support for this type of support in
many ways. I wonder if this has improved as this was many years ago when the
SP3 was just out.

~~~
freeone3000
It's gotten better, in that you now have wifi and can detach the keyboard. Pen
and ink is still bad. Do not recommend running Linux.

~~~
GekkePrutser
Oh, WiFi worked fine for me even then!

Thanks for the feedback!

------
nimish
Still no TB3 --
[https://twitter.com/h0x0d/status/1253917701719769088](https://twitter.com/h0x0d/status/1253917701719769088)
\-- but I am surprised Microsoft is admitted defeat and is unable to come up
with secure a secure DMA implementation. There have to be enough kernel and
firmware developers there to do it, right? Or has that org wasted away...

~~~
AshamedCaptain
I am sure the proprietary dock -- whose price keeps increasing -- has
absolutely nothing to do with the decision not to use TB3.

------
_xander
The base Surface Go 2 seems like an attractive option for those looking to do
a bit of real computing alongside iPad-esque media consumption.

------
freewizard
Maybe I've been using macOS with default wallpapers for too long but the
Windows wallpaper in this post feels so familiar.

------
flyGuyOnTheSly
Whoa whoa whoa, hold your horses their Microsoft.

4 new products in one blog post?

And the blog post is pretty plain at that.

Where's the sexy animations? The over the top presentation?

If you're going to try and fuck me to the tune of $1,600 for a laptop, at
least take me to out to dinner first.

Microsoft could really stand to learn a few things from Google/Apple product
presentation imho.

~~~
rvz
Actually, I like how Microsoft goes straight to the point and does an
altogether announcement in one page without the hype and pompous animations
and transitions from Apple and Google over a single product page.

They saved the whole showcase animations and marketing in the video and not
spoiled it into their website.

~~~
jml7c5
Agreed. The "no-nonsense" press release is wonderful. I'm fatigued by the
trend of whole-page scroll-to-animate "our new BrandTech3 delivers twice the
Foo for <consumer segment>" announcements. Unless there's something /really
new/, over-hyping of incremental changes makes the company seem desperate to
find things to fill a presentation. And this is the polar opposite of the weak
"vague, positive, brand values" ad campaigns Microsoft ran in its more
confused days (the Surface "click" ads full of dancers in pastel colors come
to mind). Those did little more than make Microsoft seem out of touch.

And really, which non-tech people are going to be looking at this? There's not
enough regular consumer excitement about "the next big Surface accessory" to
suggest anything but the store/product page needs to be flashy. They're much
better off drawing general consumer interest via review channels, product
placement, and quirk-bait "behind the scenes" videos or collaborations.

------
atarian
The new hardware looks impressive, but I think it's still being held back by
Windows; I say this as someone who uses Windows 10 on a daily basis.

Given how responsive Microsoft has been to the market, I wouldn't be surprised
if they scrapped Windows in favor of something web-based like Chrome OS.

~~~
msh
Thats windows 10x which is annouced earlier.

------
skocznymroczny
I'm still not sold on the kickstand. I bought the original Surface Go because
I loved the form factor and all, but the kickstand I dislike. I wish it was a
more traditional clamshell design instead, making it more usable on the lap or
when held in hand.

------
uallo
The Surface Go 2 looks interesting but I'm too deeply invested in macOS,
unfortunately. I wish Apple offered something similar (i.e. a real computer,
not a tablet). I really liked the MacBook Air 11" and regret that I sold it
years ago.

~~~
davidcollantes
Get an Apple laptop?

~~~
uallo
A 13" laptop is not really comparable to a 10.5" detachable.

~~~
eanzenberg
There’s also the 12” macbook that they will update soon I believe.

~~~
uallo
That has been discontinued last year. Do you have a link regarding the
supposed update?

Edit: I found some rumors that claim that Apple might revive the 12" MacBook
in 2020. I hope they actually do but can't really see it happening as it might
cannibalize their iPad sales.

------
galkk
If only there were tablets of 15" Surface Book size or larger . I don't need
laptop, but I'd be happy to have larger ipad or Surface Book

------
intopieces
The thing that always bothered me about the Surface Go was that it didn’t feel
like a cohesive device. More like a tablet with accessories. The way the fin
awkwardly sticks out of the back is an admission that it can’t stand on its
own because it’s a tablet, and the keyboard has an odd angle that makes it
look unstable, like typing on a piece of cardboard. When I see it, I just see
compromises, like a tablet trying its best to make it in a world where
sometimes you need a laptop.

~~~
kbd
> The way the fin awkwardly sticks out of the back

By "fin" you mean... the stand? So, the _stand_ means that it doesn't stand on
its own? What?

You clearly haven't tried one because the built-in stand is fantastic and the
keyboard cover works very well.

~~~
intopieces
> By "fin" you mean... the stand? So, the stand means that it doesn't stand on
> its own? What?

Yeah. It needs the stand because it doesn’t support itself with the keyboard
(like a laptop). It just doesn’t seem very lap friendly. Previous to the iPad
Pro keyboard I didn’t find any solution to this problem tablets that didn’t
involve some ugly clamps.

I haven’t tried it, so I am interested in others’ experience with it, since
it’s an interesting design.

~~~
kbd
> It needs the stand because it doesn’t support itself with the keyboard (like
> a laptop).

Yeah it's primarily a tablet form factor and doesn't come with a keyboard. But
that makes it a tablet that stands on its own with the built-in stand. Then,
plug in one USB-C cable and it's a full computer with access to all my
peripherals that can drive my 3840x1600 monitor. Add the keyboard cover (which
is _fantastic_ for how thin it is, the trackpad works well, etc.) and it
becomes a laptop.

There are lots of problems with the Go. It's _slow_! Battery life is mediocre.
Windows itself is a mess. Because it's a tablet that's a full computer, it's
bulkier than an ipad. But it's such a neat little device.

~~~
kbd
One more thing that stands out about the Go... This falls under Windows being
a mess, but I want to second what someone else in the thread called out: the
software keyboard is just frickin' terrible. "No one on the team must actually
use this at home" bad.

------
cercatrova
More information and links from /r/surface:

Introducing Surface Go 2, Surface Book 3, Surface Headphones 2 and Surface
Earbuds

[https://preview.redd.it/15gbamema5x41.jpg?width=1024&format=...](https://preview.redd.it/15gbamema5x41.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b1e7cc7cccc40f4f92f3b6b895534061a126c9f)

Official blog post: [https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2020/05/06/introducing-
sur...](https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2020/05/06/introducing-surface-
go-2-surface-book-3-surface-headphones-2-and-surface-earbuds/)

Pre-orders for most products start today (May 6th), and some devices launch
starting May 12.

\---

Surface Go 2 - starting at $399

Release date: May 12, 2020 (US)

Product launch video -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUw8jZl1hX0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUw8jZl1hX0)

Business product page - [https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/business/surface-go-...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/business/surface-go-2)

Microsoft Mechanics overview -
[https://youtu.be/kVAa-I8s9V0](https://youtu.be/kVAa-I8s9V0)

\---

Surface Book 3 - starting at $1599

Release date: May 21, 2020 (US)

Product launch video -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYFnAnmwG5c](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYFnAnmwG5c)

Business product page - [https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/business/surface-boo...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-
us/surface/business/surface-book-3)

Microsoft Mechanics overview -
[https://youtu.be/rGOQYX5etG8](https://youtu.be/rGOQYX5etG8)

\---

Surface Earbuds - priced at $199.99

Release date: May 12, 2020 (US)

Pre-order page - [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-
earbuds/8r9cpq1460...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-
earbuds/8r9cpq146064) (US)

Product launch video -
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMk7wnybXLM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMk7wnybXLM)

\---

Surface Headphones 2 - priced at $249.99

Release date: May 12, 2020 (US)

[https://preview.redd.it/rv7uekkqf5x41.png?width=890&format=p...](https://preview.redd.it/rv7uekkqf5x41.png?width=890&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0392ba956a9bbfe39a7a0a359b162b8af4b3197)

\---

Surface Dock 2 - priced at $259.99

Release date: Later this month in select markets

Microsoft Mechanics overview -
[https://youtu.be/qaCHITOuWPw](https://youtu.be/qaCHITOuWPw)

\---

Surface USB-C Travel Hub - priced at $99.99

Release date: Later this month in select markets

[https://preview.redd.it/0b3u3dpxd5x41.jpg?width=1440&format=...](https://preview.redd.it/0b3u3dpxd5x41.jpg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bcfda84bd09d776cd7dfe196ca5b33d91891f81)

\---

Other new accessories:

Surface Go Sleeve - [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-go-
sleeve/8x1tzlkc...](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-go-
sleeve/8x1tzlkclxtb)

Microsoft Ergonomic Desktop bundle - priced at $89.99

Microsoft Bluetooth Desktop bundle - priced at $59.99

~~~
leonroy
Thanks for that, the Mechanics videos you linked to which deep dive into the
machines functionality and hardware are great and what Microsoft really
should've included in their blog post.

Microsoft Mechanics YouTube channel:
[https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ9905MRHxwLZ2jeNQGIWxA](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ9905MRHxwLZ2jeNQGIWxA)

------
bcrosby95
From what I can tell, you can only get 4 cores on the Surface Book 3? Kinda
unfortunate if true.

------
dboreham
Hmm. Aspect ratio on the Go2 looks not right.

------
richardlblair
I have a 15" Surface book 2. The spine on it is absolutely massive and it is
heavy as all hell. Got a comparable dell 13" and im not going to look back

------
vvanders
Shame on the Surface Book 3 using Intel, after seeing what the new Ryzen 4800
looks like I don't think anyone serious about performance would be looking at
Intel.

~~~
hmottestad
At least it's ice lake (10nm). From what Anandtech has said previously, it's
got good graphics and AVX512....but other than that it's not faster than the
14nm processors because Intel still can't push the frequency as high.

Here are some benchmarks. Intel can mostly keep up with AMD. It's not great
though...multicore AMD is pulling ahead by quite a lot.

[https://www.anandtech.com/show/15762/the-acer-
swift-3-sf314-...](https://www.anandtech.com/show/15762/the-acer-
swift-3-sf314-review-swift-gets-swifter-with-ryzen-4000/4)

------
sneak
It's amazing that after all of these years, Microsoft's best work is still
ripping off Apple's design flourishes.

That blog post is straight out of Apple's marketing style about 3 years ago.
White void background, dramatic landscape desktops, parallel array of flat
devices inclined on the diagonal, high contrast background/model skin color,
et c.

I'd bet the packaging for these devices follows the Apple model as well (just
as Google did for the Pixelbook).

------
dragonsh
This hardware is a good choice for people in Windows Eco-system.

But for people on MacOS or Linux these prices doesn't make sense given they
can get better bang for bucks. Also based on previous experience with Surface
Book and Surface Pro will not touch microsoft hardware or software (except for
testing cross-platform application).

Indeed haven't used Windows extensively for quite sometime since Windows 7.
Still using a Macbook Pro bought in 2014, but do not use Surface book bought
few years later as it's not as usable and nice condition compared to Macbook
Pro, which is still chugging along very nicely.

~~~
BoysenberryPi
Can you name better hardware for people in the Linux ecosystem that all work
together well?

The appeal of all of these products is that all of the Apple stuff works
flawlessly together and all of the Windows stuff works flawlessly together. I
personally have a hell of a time just getting bluetooth to work on my Linux
thinkpad so definitely open to suggestions.

~~~
diffeomorphism
Dell xps developer edition or thinkpad preinstalled with linux? Have someone
else spend the time to get it to work just like you would with windows or
macOS.

> all of the Windows stuff works flawlessly together.

Did you mean all surface stuff? What is it supposed to work together with?
Headphones better work with everything and the pen and dial are kinda neat but
don't scream "ecosystem".

------
dsalzman
...Featuring an ultra-comfortable and stable fit, Surface Earbuds offer
intuitive touch controls so you can start a phone call or change the song
without taking out your phone....Screen-free integration with Microsoft 365
lets you catch up on emails with Play My Emails in the Outlook Mobile App for
iOS or allow you to dictate in Word, Outlook or PowerPoint. -- Woooah. I can
listen to Powerpoint decks! TAKE MY MONEY!

