
Sean Parker's Email to Daniek Ek of Spotify - olivercameron
http://www.scribd.com/doc/67465758/Sean-Parker-s-Email-to-Spotify-s-Daniel-Ek#
======
redthrowaway
"Until now, no digital musicservice has met, let alone exceeded the bar set by
Napster."

Did he ever _use_ Napster? It was slow, search was terrible, most files were
bad copies, there were viruses everywhere...

Napster was great because it was the first widespread way to get digital
music. It was _terrible_ as a platform, and quickly surpassed by its
successors in every meaningful way.

Parker's got his reality distortion field going full blast if he thinks
napster was a better music delivery system than Kazaa/Limewire/etc, or
torrents. With Grooveshark and the like out there, saying Napster has yet to
be surpassed is like saying a PII is superior in every way to an i7.

~~~
Ixiaus
He came off as insecure in that email, to me. Constantly dropping how "great"
Napster was and how _nothing_ but Spotify could match its brilliance.

~~~
AmericanOP
Again with this. Every time someone from the Silicon Valley pantheon does
something interesting and it reaches HN, people feel the need to voice if they
'like' it or resist 'liking' it.

I think it's immensely interesting Parker and Zuck think in terms of
experiences, not just UX, but the experiential realities of using a piece of
technology. Every tech visionary I've met looks at products and services this
way. This is an inside look into the way Parker thinks about technology, and
the comments are just a bunch of people mashing the mythical 'dislike' button.

Emotions change thinking, I get it. Optimism and Pessimism are the two
emotional reactions to an opportunity. Optimists imagine a positive reason for
the event happening- superstition- (I need a hacker to help me with my
startup, he's perfect), pessimists focus on the risks- paranoia- (I don't want
to give equity to this guy). Understand how emotion directs thought and then
see things as they are.

That being said, I think it's weird that the actions of successful people
provoke emotional responses on this forum.

~~~
redthrowaway
My response wasn't emotional, it was incredulous. Parker's a smart guy; I was
surprised he made such a statement.

It would be as if Henry Ford, at 100 and whatever, claimed that no car had
ever matched the Model T until the 2012 Lamborghini Aventador. It's just a
clearly false statement, and something that inspires incredulity on the part
of those hearing it, especially from a guy like Ford/Parker.

------
mrshoe
I was disappointed by the lack of an "a million dollars isn't cool..." pitch.

That being said, I think he did a fine job of endearing himself to the Spotify
team by stroking their egos a bit and demonstrating that he's like minded. All
you founders here on HN looking for co-founders or partnerships should take
note.

------
SkyMarshal
I particularly agree with all of his reasons for a desktop client instead of
web interface. It's just a better experience for music. And there's an edge
use case I hope Spotify will support at some point:

I find a cool remix on Youtube, but it doesn't exist anywhere else. I use a
flash downloader to get it, then another program to strip the audio out of it.
Now I want to load it into Spotify (Ok so far) and add it to a playlist to
share with my friends. So far it seems that sharing music like this (or say
that I downloaded from Newgrounds.com) that's not in Spotify's catalog is not
enabled. Hope it will be someday.

 _"Final thought: I'm glad that you guys resisted the temptation to build a
web basedapp. I remain a strong believer in the desktop client approach in
music for a numberof reasons.

1\. Speed/responsiveness of interface, and optimized downloading and streaming

2\. Bandwidth savings of P2P architecture

3\. Easy integration with hardware devices such as the iPod (ultimately you
want tocontrol the interface to the portable devices where you can monetize
moreeffectively by charging for download…)

4\. There are vast repositories of "grey" content on people's computers across
theworld. This content is often forgotten by the labels and publishers. The
fact that youhave a client and P2P capability will allow you to someday unlock
all of thiscontent…this goes way beyond the master music catalog that is
licensed to you bythe labels. A big part of Napster was the joy of discovering
various remixes, liverecordings and other obscurities that copyright owners
have literally lost track of.

5\. While you could have built a "thin" client that runs in the background and
powersweb based streaming, why go to all the trouble of building and
distributing clientsoftware when you could build the real experience? There is
tremendous value incontrolling the client software real estate and it allows
for a much snappierexperience."_

~~~
blhack
I'm glad I'm not the only one that uses youtube for music.

I often wonder how much google would save on bandwidth if they let me stream
_audio only_ versions of things. The vast majority of the time, I'm not even
looking at the visual component of the "video", just listening to the song.

I suppose that this would add computational complexity, as well as additional
storage, though. I'm not terribly familiar with the way that youtube stores
video.

Can anyone chime in on this? "Extracting" audio from the video containers that
youtube uses; how hard is this to do on the server side?

~~~
discodave
It wouldn't add computational complexity, or use extra storage. Surely the
audio is already stored as an mp3 or some similar format, after all wasn't mp3
invented to be the audio part of video (mpeg) files.

From wiki: "Audio in Flash Video files is usually encoded as MP3." On this
page:<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flv>

~~~
blhack
My question comes down to how they're stored. [Obviously] I'm not an expert on
video encoding or containers.

FLV is a container, yes? Usually, I'm guessing, MP3 and H.264. H.264 works out
well for youtube because they can then also use this on their HTML5 video
players.

So are the H.264 blobs and the mp3 blobs stored as discrete files, then
packaged when a video is loaded and sent down the tubes? If so, then yeah,
obviously, it would be really easy or youtube to serve "audio only"; probably
"a few lines of code".

But if the MP3 and H.264 (again h.264 is an assumption) are stored as one
[flv] package, they would have to be unpacked before being able to be sent
down as their individual components.

Again, this is a shortcoming in my understanding of video containers, so maybe
I'm missing the point on this completely. (As in: maybe "unpacking" an FLV is
trivial)

------
spiffistan
Pretty much sums up why I ended up ditching my subscription to Spotify after a
year. Spotify is a really great service -- it's just that I truly hate
Facebook and all it stands for.

~~~
veyron
Do you hate the concept of facebook or the realization?

~~~
Helianthus
Is there a difference? ;)

------
tptacek
I use Rdio all day, 50/50 web and desktop (and desktop is just an Air wrapper
around web), and I like it better than iTunes (which I like a lot). It's very
responsive. The browser actually contributes the experience (history, back
button). What am I missing here? I'm not convinced that the web isn't already
the best place to build a music streaming application.

~~~
jmtulloss
Minor nitpick: the Air app has been deprecated, the desktop app is a native
app wrapped around the web site. It also allows downloading purchases and
matching your iTunes collection.

~~~
chrischen
Matching iTunes collection only matches songs which are also available in
Rdio's catalog. Everything else you'll still have to open up iTunes to play,
and you can't even mix and match.

~~~
tptacek
You sound surprised. How could that feature work otherwise?

~~~
chrischen
Well in spotify your itunes music is imported into the spotify player.

------
heyrhett
I paid $10 to spotify, and I still wasn't as happy as I am with what
grooveshark gives me for free.

I have no idea if what grooveshark is doing is sustainable, but I've talked to
others, and they concur.

~~~
LiveTheDream
I have found that Grooveshark actually has much better content selection, as
well. Most of my listening is through Pandora One, but when I want a specific
song I have never failed to find it on Grooveshark, but frequently cannot find
it on Spotify.

~~~
earbitscom
Because many of those songs have not been licensed to Spotify or Grooveshark.
But Grooveshark is much like Honey Badger.

------
kaichanvong
All I saw was,

"Blah blah CONGRATS!!! blah blah blah Facebook. Blah blah Zuck. Blah blah blah
napster, blah blah blah napster, blah blah blah CONGRATS! Blah blah blah
napster."

~~~
tejaswiy
I really wonder if he speaks like this IRL too. I had a pretty high impression
of Parker till now, but if he can't say a good thing about Spotify without
talking about how he did or thought about doing everything in Napster first ..

~~~
bcaulf
No, he is not anything like this letter in real life. He is happy to have wide
ranging conversations without reference to his own history or accomplishments.
I suppose that in the letter he was trying to establish credibility and
rapport with the Spotify guys. It certainly worked out well for both of them
in the end.

------
alexwolfe
I think the real take away from this is not Desktop vs. Web Based its how Sean
Parker conducts himself. This guy knows how to work the room, he's a great
networker. I know very few that would have put the time and energy into
writing a letter like that. It really shows what it takes to be a top notch
entrepreneur. Fascinating stuff.

------
vasco
Napster - 12 occurrences, Facebook - 10 occurrences, Spotify - 7 occurrences

~~~
tlrobinson
You - 48 occurrences

------
icandoitbetter
TL;DR: Sean Parker brags a lot about Napster.

~~~
igorgue
That was more like TL;DR_I_DIDN'T_EITHER_BUT_I'LL_TELL_YOU_ANYWAYS.

IMHO it was a class on "How to get somebody interested on you to partner with
them".

------
quasistar
Anyone else perfectly content using Youtube as their primary music player and
discovery service?

Where else can I instantly switch between the rarest Medieval Madrigals and
the latest Reni Lane dubmixes as the mood suits?

~~~
SkyMarshal
Youtube is awesome for discovery, but meh as a music player imho.

Youtube is like MTV for the web - your music gets served with a video of some
sort, whether you want it or not. Most people seem fine with that, but I just
want the music.

------
untog
I don't understand why he talks about web vs. desktop as it it's an either/or
argument.

I agree with all the points he makes about a desktop client, but I still
prefer Rdio- I can use the desktop client when I'm at my normal PC, but if I'm
ever anywhere else, I can just fire up the web client. What possible argument
is there _against_ flexibility like that?

~~~
chrischen
I believe their desktop app is just their web app wrapped in a container.

~~~
untog
It isn't- I'm looking at it now. I have premium accounts with both Spotify and
Rdio (so I can try them out and make a choice) and while the Rdio client might
possibly be more HTML-oriented, it doesn't show.

------
mdda
Unfortunately, having seen "The Social Network", I can't help but read a lot
between the lines here. And it's mainly in a voice that's both Machiavellian
and threatening...

Maybe the level of enthusiasm is all positive and innocent: But reading the
recent news, it seems that Spotify has tied itself closely to Facebook, but
the monogamy only goes one way.

~~~
xelipe
I picked up on that too. Just read the first line of every paragraph... "Your
design is clean, elegant, tight, and fast... Ever since Napster I've dreamt of
building a product similar to Spotify.... You know what's cool, a billion
dollars is cool..."

~~~
mattgreenrocks
Yeah, between the tone and the length, it doesn't seem like Parker has pure
motives for Spotify.

------
justinph
Justin Timberlake just read a letter in my head.

~~~
martin1b
Yep, and yech.

------
trustfundbaby
The responsiveness of their desktop client is why I ditched rdio for spotify

------
dave1619
I'm surprised at how helpful Sean Parker was trying to be in the email, and
the open offer to help.

------
SkyMarshal
Serious question for everyone who prefers web-based players:

The main reason that doens't work for me is b/c I'm a browser tab-a-holic.
Anytime I open Chrome, Chromium, or Firefox, it's usually two windows with 5
to 10 tabs each. Stuff I'm working on or reading during breaks or whatever.

But sometimes I don't want the browser open, when I'm working on something
that doesn't immediately require it, but I do want my music. Eg, I want my
music decoupled from the browser. Hence I prefer a native app for music
players.

Is that just an edge case, or anyone else have same or similar issues with
browser-based players?

~~~
WiseWeasel
You could use a second browser strictly for music playback.

~~~
SkyMarshal
Yeah, unfortunately my tab problem applies to all my browsers - chrome,
chromium, firefox, opera. Yes I'm starting therapy.

------
sinzone
Already covered here: <http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3077312>

------
megaman821
Having the option to listen to my music without having to install an app is
the main reason why I choose Rdio over Spotify. Rdio's desktop app could be a
lot better but I do appreciate the choice on how I get to listen.

Also there are a large amount of people that can't install anything on their
work computers but can access a music website.

------
SeoxyS
More interesting to me than the content of the email itself is the length.
Jesus, that's a three-page email.

I have no idea how a long-winded email like this can be convincing. Effective
communication is about quickly and concisely providing a message of substance,
not writing 3 pages of fluff that could have by written in a paragraph:

 _Hey,

I love what you guys have been doing with Spotify. As you know, I had a very
similar vision when I built Napster. I would love to extend my help in any of
my area of expertise, whether it be the music business, the social space or
potential investment.

Let's grab coffee and talk a little more!

Cheers, -Sean_

~~~
Geee
Well, that clears up the 'Sean-athon.'

------
badclient
Spotify has blown me away in all the good ways. They have definitely
significantly reduced the time I spend on YouTube and made iTunes obsolete for
me.

Unfortunately, I've experienced one too many subscription stream service(Yahoo
Music anyone?) only to see them go down under after a few years. Anyone know
Spotify's future prospects in this regard?

Yes, they are superb right now. But what are the chances they'll increase
their price from 10 bucks to 30 bucks or something even more ridiculous once
they have peaked growth.

------
nextparadigms
Grooveshark is the best, and it's completely free, plus no forceful sign-ins
into Facebook.

------
pkaler
The key word in that email is "sequencing". Which features to build and in
which order.

------
jayliew
Lessons learned: 1\. Build MVP 2\. Get in front of a bunch of users & iterate
(build whatever else supporting features) 3\. :)

------
mkramlich
I was waiting for something at the end like, "And one more thing. Drop the
-ify. Just Spot. Cleaner."

