

How to game the U.S. higher-education system - Alex3917
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2009/1/24/11657/1141

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anuraggoel
Why game the U.S higher education system? The author seems to base his entire
article on the premise that "In most careers, a Master's degree is required".
He is a Stanford PhD student so I can see why he thinks that way, but I just
don't see that need in 'most careers' outside academia.

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albertcardona
Tunnel vision: almost by definition, disables the subject from noticing it.

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nihilocrat
I found life a whole lot more enjoyable by not giving a crap about prestige,
and not planning out the entire next 12+ years of my life (HS, undergrad, grad
school) when I was an 8th grader.

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medearis
Prestige may be part of the equation to the extent that prestige is a proxy
for the quality of education and research that you'll find at a given
university.

That said, I chose my school based on a lot more than the limited metric
implied by the author. College (and grad school...) is about more than just
the job you get after graduation. I've met so many incredible people and had
so many awesome experiences here... to simplify it to a "game" measured in
terms of post-grad salary is ridiculous.

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tsally
Yeah I have news for the author. State schools don't have money and private
schools do. If you/your family don't actually have enough money to pay for
your college education, you'll get financial aid from the private school but
you'll have to pay full tuition at a state school. The schools who he was
throwing around (Brown, Stanford) all guarantee 100% need based financial aid.
And if you are a genius like the author suggests, you're sure to get some
merit based financial aid as well.

Personal anecdote: If I had decided to attend University of Chicago instead of
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, I would have paid $15k less per
year. Urbana's tuition is ~$25k per year and Chicago's is $50k. Of course,
since I wanted to study Computer Science the choice was obvious, but if money
had been the issue I would have gone to Chicago. If money is a _serious_
concern, you _will_ get financial aid from a top private school.

If you do have enough money, the monetary aspects of your college choice
become a question of value, not necessity. The author should have framed his
article in that sense. There's good advice in this article, but none of it
applies to people who are contained by money. Rather, it should have been
written for the people who want to get the most of their money.

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latortuga
I actually got a ton of money from a state school while private schools
universally denied me any aid. Being a white middle class male kind of hurts
from that perspective.

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pavel_lishin
Yes, we are a perennially screwed socio-economic subset in that regard.

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nazgulnarsil
yes, the terminal school matters. which is why people care about the quality
of the undergrad school they go to. most people don't know whether or not they
are going to pursue a masters. if they at least go to a decent undergrad
school and they wind up not pursuing the masters they still have viable career
options. beware premature optimization.

~~~
jackowayed
yeah, though there are some times when you pretty much know you're going on.

For example, if you definitely 100% want to be a psychiatrist, you can't do
anything without at least a masters, preferably a PhD.

But in most fields, there are good jobs that don't require masters degrees,
and then premature optimization like this is bad.

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menloparkbum
You need an MD to be a psychiatrist.

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evdawg
So basically it's saying work hard and act smart? How is that gaming the
system? Is this article a parody?

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anuraggoel
I think he is 'gaming' the system purely from a financial perspective. His
argument is that the sum total spent on undergraduate + graduate study can be
a lot less with the same end result.

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jacobolus
And it pretty much assumes that you have wealthy parents and therefore won't
be getting the generous financial aid that all of the top schools offer to
students from middle-class families.

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darragjm
The path this article prescribes is almost identical to my own story, and so
far I strongly agree that financially it makes a lot of sense (although there
are cases where this may not necessarily be true, based on tsally's comment).

The only difference in my own personal path from the article's is that before
coming to grad school I worked for two years in a position that was extremely
relevant to what I wanted to study. Not only did I make enough money to pay
off my undergrad debt, but I also gained a great recommendation from my boss
(who was a PhD, which helps a lot) as well as an interesting story to add to
my personal statement when applying to grad school.

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euroclydon
The author forgot the writing portion of the GRE, which is not easily gamed at
all, not to mention that writing is crucial for academic success. You must be
able to write. How about some tips for writing well?

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anewaccountname
Writing well? [http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Well-25th-Anniversary-
Nonficti...](http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Well-25th-Anniversary-
Nonfiction/dp/0060006641)

~~~
euroclydon
Thanks, I just ordered the audio book.

Have you heard of Prof. Drout's A Way With Words? It's great.

[http://www.recordedbooks.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=scholar.sh...](http://www.recordedbooks.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=scholar.show_course&course_id=85&library)

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tokenadult
I wonder if he would write the same article twenty years after receiving his
last degree.

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strlen
If you're after saving money (and pursuing the same general strategy), even a
better idea is attend a reputable community college (in SF Bay Area, the best
by far are De Anza and Foothill) and then transfer (again, to a top-tier
public school such as Penn State, U Michigan or UC Berkeley/UCLA).

A further shortcut is also doing a combined BS/MS program: some very reputable
public/many private universities do this (UCLA does, UC Berkeley does not) --
in this way, you only spend an extra year on your masters and carry over a
great deal of undergraduate credit. If you aren't looking for a Ph.D right
away, this may be a better course (and having a Masters thesis written,
recommendations from graduate course professors as well as a few years of work
experience (after the Masters) give a significant admissions boost).

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heyadayo
Am I missing something? If you're parents really can't afford your tuition at
a top tier school, won't the school just pay for it? Most prestigious schools
have a giant endowment and tons of financial aid. This has been the case with
pretty much everyone I know. Just go to the best undergraduate school you can
get in to.

But I guess this article could apply if you have rich parents that refuse to
pay your tuition. Now you're in trouble.

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blackguardx
It happens more often than you think.

My parents made too much for me to qualify for financial aid, but didn't
contribute much to my educational expenses. I had to take out loans to cover
the cost of my tuition. I also was able to pay for a few semesters by working
and living cheaply.

I don't think most families pay 100% for their children to go to school. I
think that is a suburban middle class day dream. I could be wrong, though.

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mwerty
A lot changes in four years. Especially those four years. This much planning
makes little sense.

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biohacker42
Another thing to keep in mind is that your degree matters A LOT with your
first job.

After that the importance of your degree is reduced by roughly half each year
and pretty soon all that matters is your work, not what school you went to.

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eli
That's not "gaming the education system" any more than buying a Honda instead
of a BMW is "gaming the auto system"

But, yeah, go to a state school.

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jgilliam
Just don't go.

