
CPAP: Back-up power and battery systems for travel - brudgers
http://www.healthyresources.com/sleep/magazines/psnews/index.html
======
angry_octet
Tech has moved along since these articles were written, with many off the
shelf LiFePO4 options available. (Though if you do go lead acid, use an AGM;
it will save you from many HCL acid spills.) E.g.:

[https://ww2.cpapaustralia.com.au/blog/cpap-
batteries](https://ww2.cpapaustralia.com.au/blog/cpap-batteries)

If you want more endurance or just want to DIY:

Big LiFePO4s:
[https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-f...](https://www.bioennopower.com/collections/lifepo4-batteries-
for-energy-storage-backup/products/12v-15ah-lfp-battery-abs-blf-1215as)

Portable: [https://youtu.be/SJGKuriGRok](https://youtu.be/SJGKuriGRok)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erS3b22FgmU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erS3b22FgmU)

[http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2016/March/Battery-
Pack+...](http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2016/March/Battery-
Pack+Cell+Balancer+For+Optimum+Charging?res=nonflash)
[http://www.ebikeschool.com/how-to-build-a-diy-electric-
bicyc...](http://www.ebikeschool.com/how-to-build-a-diy-electric-bicycle-
lithium-battery-from-18650-cells/)

~~~
wwkeyboard
I have a Bioenno Power battery for portable ham radio usage and have had zero
problems with it. The capacity is smaller than a CPAP would need but they have
plenty of big options.

------
ldayley
An older friend of mine died suddenly several years ago while joining his
young (6-7 y/o) son on an overnight school trip at the Presidio. He suffered
from severe sleep apnea but thought he'd be ok for the night without his CPAP.
His son was the first to find him in the morning, it was terrible.

I applaud the people experimenting with this and pushing the envelope to
enable apnea-sufferers to live un-tethered from their homes.

------
bmarquez
I had to figure out how to power a CPAP while camping. Some thoughts:

\- The article says to use a 12-volt marine deep-cycle battery. Recommend
using an AGM battery instead, no need to deal with refilling electrolyte and
easier to transport. Also the 35 amp-hour U1 size is only about 22 pounds and
fits in a small cooler or tool box.

\- Most of the modern machines (Philips or ResMed) have DC-DC power adapters
available. Philips is great because you can get a $30 cigarette lighter cable,
connect that to a cigarette->alligator clip, and plug that directly to a
battery. ResMed's adapters seemed more expensive (they use 24 volts), but at
least it's an option. AC inverters are obviously inefficient.

\- Not using a humidifier would probably double your battery life. With a 35
AH battery I could get about 3 days with humidifier/heated hose on. 3 days
without humidifier left about 40-60% battery life. Of course, this depends on
your pressure settings. The humidifier also works passively if not powered,
flow of air through the water tray still does some humidification.

My next project, trying to figure out how to add a portable solar panel to the
battery.

~~~
Johnny555
Unless the cigarette lighter plug has a clip to hold it into place, it seems
like a bad connector to use to power a life-safety device since they are
easily dislodged (in fact, the spring at the terminal at the end is actively
trying to push the plug out of the socket)

I'd probably use something like Anderson power poles if it were me.

[http://www.andersonpower.com/us/en/products/powerpole/index....](http://www.andersonpower.com/us/en/products/powerpole/index.aspx)

~~~
bmarquez
Yeah that looks more secure, unfortunately Philips added a DRM-like protection
to force everyone to use their cigarette adapter. Basically there is some sort
of circuitry that identifies an official cable. Someone on a CPAP message
board said it was only a resistor across a 3rd pin in the power plug, but
can't find the link.

I plugged an "unofficial" cable, as well as an 18v lithium-ion plug, and got a
"Check Power" message on my Dreamstation. The unit was powered, but it refused
to start until it detected the "official" cigarette cable.

~~~
Johnny555
That seems like an awful use of DRM -- by forcing users to use a substandard
connector. It does nothing to protect the device since, as you've done, you
can put a cigarette lighter socket on anything.

------
gregmac
This seems like the type of device that should _primarily_ run on battery
power, but normally be plugged in and continuously charging via mains power.
Having to use an inverter is inefficient and another potential point of
failure.

I see there are commercial 'travel' units but is that what people typically
use these days?

~~~
ellius
Speaking only for myself, I use a normal power cord. I would kill for a
battery. I've forgotten the cord once or twice while traveling and after a day
or two without it I feel miserable.

~~~
jtdressel
I've been there, that's not fun.

You can often find inexpensive units on Craigslist. I think it's a great
investment to have a second set that's always packed and ready to go.

------
EvanAnderson
My wife's ResMed unit has an optional DC-to-DC power supply with a cigarette
lighter connector. We purchased a deep-cycle lead acid battery, battery box,
charger / desulfator, and various cables and came up with a nice modular
system that doubles as both a backup for a power outage and something we can
take camping. It stays plugged-in at home under her bedside table and is easy
to swap-in if need be.

She forgoes the humidifier on camping trips, which tremendously helps the
battery life. If we did camping trips longer than 3-day weekends I'd probably
also put together a solar charging rig, but as it stands she can get 3 or 4
nights out of our current rig with enough reserve to go a couple more nights
if we needed to.

The most costly part was the ResMed DC-to-DC power supply (at about $100, if
memory serves). I felt a lot better about using that supply than an inverter
and it's more efficient, too.

~~~
amluto
How long ago was this? These days, I would expect a LiFePO4 system to be
comparably priced (especially if you consider that it should survive
considerably more cycles than a lead-acid battery) and smaller and lighter to
boot. M

~~~
EvanAnderson
We did this last summer. The 35AH battery we're using cost $64 at the time. I
probably ended up spending more per cycle, but I'm guessing my out-of-pocket
at the time was lower (and it was kind of a gamble as to how much we'd
actually use the rig).

~~~
vvanders
The other thing to consider is that lead batteries don't mind being floated at
max capacity for long periods of time. Lithium batteries like to stay closer
to 90%, unfortunately most chargers just blindly charge to 100%.

------
lsc
So, I've got an AirMini, and I'd really like a battery solution for it. The
thing is, most battery setups I can buy for it are not only big and bulky
enough to support larger machines with heated tubes/humidifiers, but they have
their own big and bulky power supply. I mean, the whole point of the airmini
is to trade extra money for a secondary machine that is easy to throw into
your bag.

I was thinking of a project to power the whole thing off of usb-c, which seems
kinda silly, but the whole point of buying a tiny secondary cpap is to save
bag space, right? and I already have compact USB-C chargers and batteries, and
more importantly, I can buy those things in regular stores, should I lose my
existing components. Also, the AirMini kind of looks like an apple product
itself, so USB-C just seems appropriate.

[https://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/products/devices/airmi...](https://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/products/devices/airmini.html)

(Compare that to the giant setup the guy took down the grand canyon.)

being able to use the same power supply and battery for the cpap and
everything else would make the whole setup more convenient.

I think USB C pd gives me on the order of 100w and I think the AirMini uses
less than 30w. But I have a lot of ee to learn between here and there. My
first 'figure out how to power it off USB-C PD' project would be one of my old
thinkpad laptops; my X220 uses a 20v power supply, and USB C PD is also 20v,
so it seems like it shouldn't be that difficult.

~~~
DenisM
There you go [https://buyminicpap.com/products/battery-pack-for-
airmini](https://buyminicpap.com/products/battery-pack-for-airmini)

Btw, how is airmini humidifier working for you?

~~~
lsc
the inline humidifier doesn't work with the full face mask, and I figured out
that nasal masks aren't for me shortly after buying my CPAP setup, so we're
talking just a few nights of experience on the inline humidifiers.

When I tried the nasal mask, the inline humidifier did seem to add a lot of
variable noise, (like it makes the noise really different breathing in vs out)
and I personally didn't notice much by way of humidification (but most of the
time I don't need humidification on my other unit, either, so I'm probably
just less sensitive about that sort of thing.)

I dunno if I would recommend the portables for people who can't live without
the humidifier, like I'd rig up one of the inline humidifiers to your regular
cpap with humidification disabled and test before buying an airmini, 'cause
they are really a very different thing from humidifiers where you add water.

As for the lofta battery, it's bigger than the airmini, and it has what looks
like a power brick that is also larger than the airmini. I mean, I can totally
see situations where I'd buy and carry it, but at that size, I'm not going to
carry it in situations where I'll likely be able to drag the bed closer to an
outlet, while I might carry something smaller 'just in case' or 'just for
convenience' in those situations.

------
neilk
Outdated info - many CPAP units are happy running from batteries, and there
are lots of solutions available.

I use this. You probably don’t even need a dedicated CPAP battery solution
these days, but this can be bought with accessories to connect it to many
popular models.

[http://www.batterypowersolutions.net/product/freedom-cpap-
ba...](http://www.batterypowersolutions.net/product/freedom-cpap-battery)

------
mey
GoalZero and Anker (Power House) are a few of the LiPo portable battery
systems.

~~~
linsomniac
I was wondering if one of those options might work well for this situation.
They are a bit spendy at $500 for the Powerhouse, but sometimes I have seen
them on sale.

I guess I should get a Cigarette Lighter adapter so that in a pinch I could
use this 75KWH portable battery I have called a Tesla. :-)

------
Hydraulix989
I wish there were some more startups attacking the sleep apnea problem. It is
more common in the general population than people realize, and it creates many
more health problems. CPAP is only tolerated by fewer than half of patients (I
can't stand how uncomfortable wearing the mask at night is while I sleep), and
the efficacy of surgery is up in the air. The surgeon in the Bay Area that
does jaw reconstructive surgery to open up more space for the airways charges
six figures for the procedure, and it is not covered by insurance.

~~~
lsc
>CPAP is only tolerated by fewer than half of patients

I know several people who are in this boat... but without exception, all the
people I personally know who did not tolerate cpap treatment just used one
mask, and when that didn't work, they stopped. I think I went through like ten
masks from three brands before I really dialed in one that was comfortable for
me, and I think that's key to tolerating sleeping with a face-hugger.

>the efficacy of surgery is up in the air. The surgeon in the Bay Area that
does jaw reconstructive surgery to open up more space for the airways charges
six figures for the procedure, and it is not covered by insurance.

I know two people who got the less invasive version of the surgery where they
hack out parts of the soft pallet or something, which is dramatically cheaper
(and usually covered) - and they both rave about it, a way better ratio than
the CPAP, but when I asked my doctor about it, he pointed out that it tended
to work well at first, but the fleshy bits that are cut away tended to grow
back. I didn't really research too much further... I mean, really, going under
the knife every five years doesn't sound that unreasonable, but I dunno if
that's how it works.

~~~
Udik
I wonder if actually had any experience similar to mine: in short, I had no
problem in using the CPAP but after a couple of years I started suspecting it
was decreasing the quality of my sleep.

I suffer of a- I think- mild-to-severe sleep apnoea; it was measured once and
has been witnessed by anybody having the misfortune of sleeping in the same
room with me. There have been periods of time when I used to wake up quite
often at night with my heart racing and completely dizzy because of lack of
air.

Finally, scared by the horror stories about sleep apnoea, and despite the fact
that I was lacking any obvious symptoms of daytime drowsiness, I decided to
buy a CPAP machine (Philips Respironics). Had little trouble in adjusting to
the mask- didn't even need a humidifier- and after a while I found the bedtime
routine quite normal- except for the annoying aesthetical issue of sleeping
attached to what looks like a life-support machine.

I've used it regularly maybe for a couple of years. I can't say I witnessed
any improvement in my daytime wakefulness or in anything else, possibly the
opposite: I was feeling confused and found it difficult to concentrate, often
forgetting mid-sentence what I was about to say. In the end I started noticing
that I was waking up in the morning strangely lightheaded, possibly
hyperventilated. Some people started asking me if I was sleeping at all at
night. In the end I gave up using it, and found no noticeable difference.
Actually my sleep apnoea has decreased since then, and at least the major
awakenings due to lack of breath have almost disappeared.

Anybody with similar experience?

~~~
Hydraulix989
Yes, when I was on CPAP, I also felt like I slept much worse with it on,
despite the machine showing an AHI < 2.0 every night. One doctor suggested it
was psychosomatic and that I am effectively cured of my apnea with the CPAP
on. To this day, I continue to feel much more well-rested without the CPAP
even though I _may_ have more apneas.

------
dreamcompiler
I've done this for years. My CPAP runs on 12VDC so it works directly from 12v
in my RV (recharged by solar panels) or from a portable 12v Lithium battery
pack that gets me through about two nights without recharging. No inverter
needed, and I don't use the humidifier on battery power.

Unfortunately I just got a new CPAP that uses 25 VDC, so I'll have to build or
buy a DC-DC boost converter for it. Slightly annoying, but not a big problem.

------
Tharkun
Somewhat off topic, but this post seems to have a bunch of apnea experts in
it, so here goes: what are the long term effects of relying on CPAP? As I
understand it, the airway partially closes because muscles relax in your
sleep. Doesn't the positive pressure at night weaken those muscles?

------
pdxpatzer
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery)

[https://www.bioennopower.com/](https://www.bioennopower.com/)

------
DenisM
Some CPAP manufacturers have fairly compact first-party batteries:

[https://www.amazon.com/Freedom-CPAP-Battery-Kit-
Air/dp/B01I4...](https://www.amazon.com/Freedom-CPAP-Battery-Kit-
Air/dp/B01I420KOG)

------
ccarter84
Tangent - Has anyone tried the mandibular extension devices? Worried about
long term impacts on jaw...but still tempted vs having this machine for rest
of life

