
HN: I was fired today, is this even legal? - wturner
Hi,<p>I&#x27;ve been unemployed for a while and recently got an $8 an hour job through Kelly services. The name of the company is called Juno Pacific in Santa Cruz. I did excellent work, got along with everyone and had nothing but praise from my immediate supervisor. She jokingly said &#x27;good job ,you deserve a raise&#x27; and other such comments regularly.
When I was quizzed at the little testing stations I worked at I did fine. It was easy rote work.<p>We had a meeting yesterday where the upper management ( who I had never met ) called in all the workers in my shift and told us about the productivity incentive program.<p>The productivity incentive program is this:
If you give the company any ideas that make them more money you are rewarded with a pizza party and you get to spin a cardboard cut out wheel that has &#x27;big prizes&#x27; like a $25 amazon gift certificate. The grand prize of the cardboard cut out wheel is an ipad.<p>The manager mentioned one example of a single employee that thought up an idea that saved them $5000 a month. Presumably this person was rewarded with a pizza party and got to spin the cardboard cut out wheel and claim their prize.<p>The manager said that he would like to see each employee come up with at least 3 ideas.<p>I raised my hand and said that &quot;if anyone here can make the company an additional $5000 a month you should treat them as a consultant and simply write them a check for $1000&quot;. I also said that the incentive program as is is a bit &quot;maddening&quot; and silly. I also mentioned that I&#x27;ve seen this kind of thing before at companies while implying that its simply not fair. After the meeting was over a few other employees expressed gratitude because its what they were thinking as well.<p>Today I was fired without notice. The person that was given the responsibility to notify me didn&#x27;t give any reason except that my &#x27;outburst was inexcusable&#x27; and that the decision came from upper management.
======
noonespecial
I know it sucks because you probably need that $8/hour right at this point but
in the grand scheme, the "pizza party" and "wheel of fish" is about the most
humiliating ridiculousness I've heard in quite some time. Life is too damn
short.

Just reading the small amount you've written about the situation, I can tell
you that you simply _write English_ at a greater than $8/hour level. Probably
much greater.

I'm continually shocked at how aggressively companies court mediocrity and
failure. They probably think they are extremely progressive even for listening
to employees in the first place, double plus points for giving token rewards.
Unless, of course, that the employee input happens to be about how ridiculous
and juvenile the whole exercise is.

~~~
giarc
I personally think people should appreciate any reward, even if it is just a
pizza party. Why do people think they should get a cut of the savings? If you
work for the company, you should want to see it succeed for the sake of your
own future with the company. If a company has a policy in place for 10% cut of
the savings, sure that's great. But don't be greedy and expect more.

~~~
Yver
They think that because it's not part of their job, so they should be paid
extra for it. I don't think that OP's $8/hour job's reponsibilities include
increasing productivity on a company-wide scale. Management is asking the
employees to do something that's not part of their job and for which they are
not paid.

~~~
giarc
Doesn't sound like they made it part of his job, just a perk. Participating
isn't a requirement. And if an employee was embarrassed by the pizza party and
still wanted to submit an idea, I'm sure they could say "I don't want any
pizza party, but what if we did this....."

------
3am
It's completely legal, and probably a reasonably good life lesson for you in
how communicate in the workplace.

I don't disagree with what you said necessarily, but if you think about it
from the manager's perspective you basically shoved their nose [edit: and even
worse, publicly] in an effort to make employees feel their opinion was valued
and a small incentive program for it (the budget for which may not be under
their control).

Realistically, you were an $8/hr temp. You were extremely replaceable, and you
made yourself a net negative in someone's mind.

I sincerely hope you find new and meaningful employment in very short order.

------
davidw
Yes, it's reasonable: you should not waste your life in a place with silly
pizza parties. Aim for something better.

Edit: BTW, he links to his resume in his profile if anyone wants to do a good
deed: [http://helpknow.com/resume.pdf](http://helpknow.com/resume.pdf)

~~~
wturner
I am but in the meantime I need to have food and shelter. I have some
freelance work that can sustain me but I really wanted a reliable paycheck. I
actually didn't mind the work and the company made a good product. I think the
problem is that in the mind of the manager I attempted to plant in the head of
the other employees ( many of which English is a second language and its hard
to find work and they want to keep it) that you shouldn't just give away what
is in your head for some one else to benefit. Its bad enough that they pay
these people nothing but trying to scrape whats in their heads in exchange for
remedial trinkets is really just seriously gross. If I was still in my 20's I
would have just thought the whole thing was racist but I've been around enough
to know that its really just corporate culture.

~~~
jbooth
Lesson learned: Next time just give them dumb ideas and don't stand out.

~~~
ccozan
I oppose this: human dignity MUST be defended at all cost.

~~~
jbooth
The poster was talking about an $8/hr temp job. He's already made a decision
to trade dignity for necessity.

Defending dignity at 'all costs' makes it sound like you've never had to make
a hard decision in your life. This is a case where the right move is to keep
your head down, do the bare minimum, work on your portfolio on the side and
bolt for a better job as soon as you can.

~~~
bendmorris
If everyone does that instead of speaking up, the situation for the people at
the bottom never improves. If enough workers reject their poor conditions, the
situation might gradually get better.

You can choose to put your own interests first by sticking around and not
saying anything or those of your fellow workers by taking a stand. It's a
question of values.

~~~
lobotryas
The keyword is "might". In the meantime, OP is out of a job and I just Hope he
has some savings to fall back on because I doubt that temp agency will be
looking to take him back.

------
noddingham
If you were a temporary worker through Kelly Services you probably won't have
much recourse. I temped in my twenties and I don't think there's much you can
do. You are a Kelly employee, not an employee of the host company, and as such
your work assignment with Juno Pacific was ended so you head back to Kelly for
a new assignment. IANAL.

~~~
lawtguy
Just to reinforce what Noddingham said: if you were a temp working for Kelly,
you didn't get "fired": Juno Pacific called up your staffing manager at Kelly
Services and told them that they didn't need your services anymore. Yes,
that's a lot like getting fired, but if you were a temp, you were never an
employee of Juno Pacific.

------
jeffmould
IANAL, but unfortunately there is probably not much you can do in this case.
Many states are right to work states meaning that the employer can terminate
your employment without reason as long as it is not discriminatory based on
age, sex, race, etc... I am also going to assume that this was a temp position
that was fulfilled through Kelly services in which case the employer has even
more leeway presumably in their contract with Kelly. There is probably a
clause in there somewhere that says that since it is a "temp" fulfillment they
can terminate their relationship with you at any time without cause.

~~~
wonderyak
1\. That is not what right-to-work laws are for, nor is what you described any
definition of right-to-work.

2\. CA is an at-will employment state. You can be terminated for cause, no
cause or just cause.

~~~
brown9-2
I think the parent poster meant "At-will" rather than right-to-work.

~~~
jeffmould
Yep, sorry mixup on my part.

------
bane
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-
will_employment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment)

------
Xdes
Well this is a life lesson learned: don't mess with upper management. What
they are doing is exploiting their workforce (I mean c'mon a guy saves them
$5000/mo and he gets a $50 pizza party?) and the only thing you can do is
privately share your discontent behind their backs. Most companies are not
open to disruption especially by petty labor.

~~~
lvs
Before you get a management position, if someone around you challenges your
ideas or critiques things you do, you deal with it. After you get a management
position, you fire them.

------
MetaCosm
I have some honest questions.

Do you have any sort of social disorder? On the spectrum, etc?

How would you assess your cost versus value at the company? How much extra
money (in savings or profits) do you think you generated for the company?

What did you imagine to the be the best outcome, and what did you imagine to
be the worst outcome?

Obviously, you didn't think you would get fired over such behavior... why do
you think you were unable to see this as a possible repercussion?

Why did you decide to do this in public, rather than private?

Do you often have issues filtering your thoughts before speaking?

Did you realize that your behavior might create a disincentive for other
employees to contribute ideas to the company?

\----

I am just very curious when situations like this occur, what the internal
thinking is... because from an outside perspective, it seems like you getting
fired was the obvious (nearly the only) possible outcome.

------
ManFromUranus
You made them feel stupid, so they made you feel unemployed. Do not criticize
management openly in front of others, this was your mistake. I've also made
this mistake, I was right, I was also ended up unemployed. You were right
about everything you said, but it's probably small consolation. It may even
have been illegal to fire you, however how likely is it that somebody who
makes $8 an hour can afford a lawyer to right that wrong? You can go to some
kind of labour dept lawyer and make a case for wrongful dismissal, but the
bureaucracy behind such organizations is slow, by the time they act (if they
ever do) you will be long past caring.

~~~
mildtrepidation
As others have pointed out, it's unlikely the company did anything illegal.
That aside, I have been in the same situation as you and the OP, and it's far
more important to learn the obvious lesson here than to waste time trying to
find recourse.

------
jimmydddd
You should reconsider what you were trying to accomplish with your remarks. If
your intention was to change the policy, it may have been better to offer your
criticism after the public event, in a less confrontational manner. No one
likes to be shown up. Consider making suggestions that allow the other people
to save face. While it might feel good in the moment to complain in public and
humiliate your boss, the end result will often be counter-productive to your
goals. This happens at all levels of management. You got to learn it when the
stakes are relatively low. Good luck!

------
rguzman
Put a way to contact you in your HN profile and on your other profiles (GH,
SO).

While it sucks to be short on money, it really seems like you dodged a bullet
and you're better off not working there. From what I can tell from your
writing and your online presence, you are far above making $8/hr.

~~~
taurath
Thats what really gets me about this, either this is truly a fucked up
situation or something isn't getting through - if you're in the valley and you
can write a jquery selector/do a few frontend customizations, you can put your
resume on dice and have 10 phone calls the first week. I don't really know
what to say, I have no degree but have just a few contacts and taking a job at
a company like that for less than I'd get at an in-n-out seems way out of
line.

Suggestion to OP: post your resume on a few sites and get recruiters calling
if you haven't. Maybe put your teaching job on the bottom and emphasize coding
ability. There's no reason you shouldn't be getting a few interviews very
quickly unless you only speak in Klingon irl.

------
munimkazia
Yep, I see no discrimination based on sex or race, which we know is illegal
for sure. They can simply fire you if they want to, otherwise. I wouldn't be
too beaten up about it though.. Doesn't look like the best place to work.

------
larrik
You can contact the Department of Labor
([http://www.labor.ca.gov/](http://www.labor.ca.gov/)), but I seriously doubt
what they did has any legal consequence.

I don't know about CA specifically, but Departments of Labor usually LOVE
aggressively defending employees' rights. Something I don't see much on HN,
but I saw a LOT when I worked in HR.

~~~
mhurron
> Departments of Labor usually LOVE aggressively defending employees' rights

In my experience this is only true if it is easily proven that you were fired
because of blatant racism or sexism. If it isn't either of those two reasons
or it is harder to prove, nothing will happen.

To the OP, yes it seems perfectly legal, you can be fired at any time for any
reason that isn't one of a handful of protected reasons (sex, religion, race
etc.). You can be fired for wearing blue that day if they so feel like it.
It's just not usually so petty because it can be a little bit of a cost
replacing a person.

------
toblender
Dude you have more rep than I do at Stackoverflow. Where are you located in
the world that you are unable to find a web development job?

~~~
shadowcats
Yeah, that is a blatant imbalance.

Why, OP, are you not working as a developer?

Honest question, not trying to be negative or anything.

~~~
wturner
I have been trying for years. I fail at everything. The thing is this, just
knowing how to program and do DOM manipulation isn't good enough. You need to
have a stack/framework or 5 that you know like clockwork and as intuitively as
a language. I thought by now I would know enough but its really going to be
another year of learning node/express/mongoose/mongo/jade/programming
patterns/web apis/authentication and god knows what else before the 'big'
$20hr checks come rolling in. Seriously , if you don't have enough 'intuitive'
understanding of a stack coming into it then you're dead before you've entered
the door. Learning a stack is like learning a new language. I have written in
PHP but trying to learn CakePHP or any of the other PHP frameworks is a large
time investment. I tried Rails and plopped. I've now finally settled on node
with express but learning mongoose, ajax w/mongoose and jade in conjunction
with api's and storing dom id's and whatever else takes time as building
muscle memory is the only route to employment. When I was younger I use to
play with drum machines and electronic music equipment a lot and knew certain
pieces of it like the back of my hand. The only way I see myself making any
real money is to learn a stack literally as well as I knew that music
equipment when I was a kid. That means striving to know every granular piece
of it....and that takes time.

~~~
taurath
You don't. You need to set reasonable expectations and approach a coding job
as a "new" task instead of one you perceive you've failed at - you probably
know more than many intermediate developers but it sounds like your ability to
ship code is the biggest problem. Being a programmer doesn't mean knowing the
entire stack and each and every piece of it, its about being able to pick out
whats important to the task at hand.

I've run into a frequent roadblock in that I always want to know all the
elements of what I'm getting into. I'm finding that in MOST cases its not
important at all, until you're architecting a new system. Leave that to senior
level folks for now, just find a place you can fix or work on UI elements or
clear bugs - theres no need to be so stressed about a programming job, just
reach for a branch that you can grasp firmly.

------
grecy
It's a shame, but something I've learned in the last few years working for a
bigger company with layers and layers of management is that they genuinely are
not interested in your ideas or input.

Some middle-manager somewhere in the chain came up with the "spin the wheel"
idea - and no matter how stupid you think it is, they have a vested interest
in it working out, so they look good to their boss. As soon as you point out
how stupid it is, you're undermining them, and that's something no middle-
manger will tolerate.

It's a shame, but the best thing you can do is keep your mouth shut.

(Yes, I'm looking for a new job)

------
intherdfield
I'm really sorry to hear about what happened. I wish you the best of luck in
finding a new job. The pizza party idea sounds demeaning and silly.

Now is not the time for advice on communication, but I can't help but comment
on this, sorry. Take this with a grain of salt because I wasn't in the room.
Should the manager be able to handle your questions better? Yes. But, consider
this rhetorical question, was your aim to embarrass the manager or improve the
situation? Even though you were presented with something ridiculous, from the
manager's perspective, you embarrassed him in front of his reports.
Criticizing someone (or an extension of them such as their work) in a group
setting can be very destructive. In a situation like that, I recommend talking
to the manager one-on-one afterwards. That gives the manager the opportunity
to do something that fixes this and to be a good manager that listens to his
employees and comes up with incentives that might actually work. If the
manager doesn't want that outcome, don't waste your time there. Your manager
might be childish and unprofessional. He might just lack the empathy required
to understand your perspective without it being explained to him. If he is the
former, and you don't want to get fired, you have to act in a way that is
acceptable to someone childish and unprofessional. I think a good manager
would handle your points and questions and give you some kind of response
whether it be 1) I'll look into fixing this or 2) sorry, I can't fix this.
They say good managers are hard to find.

------
leothekim
Employment in the US is "at will", which means you can be fired without just
cause (except for prohibitions for race, religion, gender, age, disability,
national origin). It may seem terrible, but it's good to remember that "at
will" works the other way too, so if your situation sucks you shouldn't feel
legally obliged to stay.

[edit] Also, I'm sorry that you got fired like this, it sounds maddening and
inhumane. Best of luck to you in finding something better.

------
dragonwriter
In general, it is important to provide negative feedback on a management
initiatives in private, except when it is very specifically solicited in a
public forum (or you _really_ know all the people involved well enough to know
that its acceptable _to them_ ), and, whether privately or publicly, doing it
in a respectful way that focuses on the benefit (particularly, _to the
company_ ) of doing things in the way you think is better and/or (really,
equivalently) the costs (again, to the company) of doing things the "wrong"
way (actually, that's largely true of negative feedback _in general_ , not
just up the chain.)

Of course, there is a difference if you have grievances that have reached a
certain point -- see, well, the whole of the labor movement -- but at that
point you have better already organized with others and be prepared for an
extended and escalating series of negative consequences before you reach your
objective, and a not-good-enough new incentive program isn't usually the kind
of thing where that is called for.

The consequences in this case were, perhaps, extreme (though not surprising,
_especially_ in the contract of an assignment through a staffing agency rather
than regular employment), but that there would be negative blowback is not at
all unexpected.

The good thing is that losing a temporary assignment like this tends to have a
_lot_ impact on employability, even in the short term, than being fired.
That's not to say it doesn't _suck_ \-- I've been there, more than once -- but
its probably a "learn from it and move on" situation more than anything else.

------
wpietri
California is an at-will state. You can generally be fired at any time for
almost any reason:

[http://www.business.ca.gov/StartaBusiness/AdministeringEmplo...](http://www.business.ca.gov/StartaBusiness/AdministeringEmployees/EqualEmploymentOpportunityLaws/AtWillEmployment.aspx)

I'm no lawyer, but them not liking how you act in a meeting is probably one of
the reasons.

As an aside: yes, you're right, that's horseshit. The purpose of behavior like
this is to establish dominance. "Fair" is irrelevant; even "well run" is
secondary to keeping the caste system in place. If you're interested in the
nature and history of this, you might see if your library has the book
Confronting Managerialism: [http://www.amazon.com/Confronting-Managerialism-
Business-Eco...](http://www.amazon.com/Confronting-Managerialism-Business-
Economic-Controversies/dp/178032071X)

------
mattm
Hi William,

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. One thing I've learned in life is that
people will ask all kinds of unreasonable things of you. There's no need to
get upset with them. A simple "No, I can't do that" is a perfectly acceptable
answer.

While your point was valid, I suspect it was the way you said it that lead to
you getting fired. You said you mentioned it was "maddening and silly."
There's no need to get mad. You can't control what other people will say. You
can only control your reaction to it. If you had just suggested that the
program might be more efficient if employees shared in the monetary savings
and left it at that, I would guess that there would have been some discussion
and maybe something positive would have come out of it. Instead, you insulted
people who had probably put a lot of thought into this program so of course
they felt humiliated and used their power to get revenge.

Yes, I know it's petty but many people are like that.

I was presented with something similar at work once. I won't go into the
details but basically the company was hoping we would use our free time to
create something that they would basically take ownership of. When the manager
got done explaining it and asked me what I thought, I just said "I'll think
about it" but I knew I would never do it.

It was never brought up again.

The same thing probably would have happened with this program. In a week, all
the managers would have forgotten about it and moved on to one of their other
hair-brained ideas.

I know you're in a difficult situation right now. I don't know your area but
you could probably get an $8/hr job just walking down the street. I hope this
turns into a blessing in disguise for you. It's a good lesson to learn. Better
to be fired from an $8/hr job for this than an $80/hr job.

------
Spooky23
You're in an at-will state, so unless you were fired due to a legally
protected thing. (race, religion, sex, etc) You have no recourse. So it's
legal.

It really sucks, and I'm personally sorry to hear that you had to work in such
a crappy place and deal with such a demeaning and ridiculous situation.

------
Todd
I'm not sure what you can do legally, IANAL, etc. But do you really want to?
Getting embroiled in a legal mess probably isn't worth it, in any case.

I believe you did learn a valuable lesson in how to operate within a company,
though. You will be faced scenarios like this many times in your career. It
constitutes part of the politics of the workplace. Like most people, I went
through a similar learning process. When you're younger, you tend to let your
passions dictate more of your overt actions. As you get older, you see how the
game is played and learn how to choose your battles. I know it sounds a bit
cynical, and it probably is, but being around to fight another day (assuming
that you believe that you're someone who can have a positive impact) makes it
worth it.

------
acmiller
FWIW, to the extent you spoke out in protest of unfair working conditions, it
possibly could have been a violation of federal labor laws.

[http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/protected-concerted-
ac...](http://www.nlrb.gov/rights-we-protect/protected-concerted-activity)

Yes, most employees have labor rights, even if they're not in a union. Check
out:

[http://www.nlrb.gov/resources/faq/nlrb](http://www.nlrb.gov/resources/faq/nlrb)

Who knows if it could help, but you might want to contact the NLRB.

[http://www.nlrb.gov/what-we-do/investigate-charges](http://www.nlrb.gov/what-
we-do/investigate-charges)

Mostly, though, I wish you luck finding a decent job. That company sounds
awful.

------
wturner
I went into Kelly services today to fill out my final time sheet and the rep
said the manager told him 'someone who looked like me' was spotted on the
property yesterday.

I was home all day and haven't set foot anywhere near there since the day the
assignment was terminated. I am inferring the manager intentionally made that
up to further tarnish the perception of me in the minds of the reps at Kelly.
Maybe I'm just paranoid , but it sure seems like that. Anyway, if he did do
that it seems to have worked by my perception of the Kelly reps response when
he was speaking with me.

I don't even know why I'm typing this other than to point it out in Robert
Greene fashion for all those uninitiated.

------
a_c_s
Is it even legal? Yes.

It sounds like you went on a short rant that makes the management look bad in
front of everyone: this was a mistake.

Next time if you have an issue with the program like this bring it up
privately with your manager or save your feedback until it is solicited.

~~~
wturner
He asked for feedback before I raised my hand. But the reality is that you're
right and I should just learn to shut up unless I'm completely confident that
the other person won't feel uncomfortable when I open my mouth. I spend most
of my time pretty quiet as-is. :)

------
scarmig
Probably not anything you can do. Find a new job.

It will be interesting to see whether the people rallying to Eich's free
speech rights despite his homophobia will be similarly impassioned about
rallying to yours despite your rejection of serfdom.

------
teilo
I wonder what would have happened had you reserved your comments for a private
conversation with someone in upper management. That is how things are done
professionally.

I agree with everything you said to them, but had I been in their position, I
might not have fired you, but I would have given you a serious sit-down.

Management may be clueless, but when, from their perspective, they are trying
to incentivize their employees, you don't publicly humiliate them in a manner
that is sure to cause friction with the very employees they are trying to
incentivize.

------
trose
Sounds like you're a smart person. If you're looking for good pay and a stable
job try to find a government contractor. I have a good friend that started
answering phones doing basic Tier 0 tech support, mostly just resetting
passwords. This was at ~$15/hr. YMMV but at this contractor, they quickly
realized that she was overqualified and paid for her to get certifications and
bumped her into a much more technical role.

------
aaronblohowiak
Never criticize company policy other than in a 1:1 with your direct
supervisor. If you have specific HR complaints, it should go through official
channels.

It isn't public politics; you have no right to demonstrate or be heard (unless
you are unionizing,) and it will never advance your career.

If you want to impact change, curry favor and build coalitions. Don't make any
move or objection until the outcome you desire will be seen by everyone as
inevitable.

------
mapster
Learn from it. I wouldn't second guess management unless you ARE management.
You got what you deserved. The program may have been idiotic, but thumbing
your nose at management in front of other staff is a surefire way to get the
boot. Are your really surprised?

------
mcv
It may not feel like it right now, but it seems to me that you should be happy
to be out of there. Don't accept that kind of ridiculous belittling
humiliation.

I don't know if it's legal (in the US it probably is), but I hope and expect
you will find something better.

------
bdavisx
So save the company $60k / year and get the _possibility_ of an iPad? I think
I would keep my ideas to myself and start looking for another job if I was an
employee (I realize the OP was not an employee and my reply is slightly off
topic).

------
JSeymourATL
It's their playground, their rules. Move on, find a place that is a better
fit.

------
RogerL
Call the CEO at Cretex, the parent company. Ask them why they fire employees
that come up with ideas (the point of the incentive program, after all, was to
offer ideas). You have nothing to lose at this point.

------
Edmond
Not sure about your whole story but working for 8 bucks per hr, at least from
your resume seems way below your pay grade. There may of course be a good
reason for that but otherwise I'd say aim higher.

------
bjornlouser
"The manager mentioned one example of a single employee that thought up an
idea that saved them $5000 a month."

His idea was that the company should fire someone who makes $60k a year and
redistribute the workload.

------
rsobers
Firstly, firing you for making this statement is crazy.

But one problem with giving employees a cut of the profit from their ideas is
that everyone becomes incentivized to try to come up with home run ideas vs.
doing necessary but non-revenue generating projects and tasks. [1]

The pizza party and cardboard wheel is kinda ridiculous--like something from
The Office--but that's the (sad) norm at a ton of places. Most of us are
extremely luck to be at the other end of the spectrum in tech/startups.

[1]: Great article on this topic by Joel Spolsky:
[http://www.inc.com/magazine/20090101/how-hard-could-it-be-
th...](http://www.inc.com/magazine/20090101/how-hard-could-it-be-thanks-or-no-
thanks.html)

------
millzlane
TL;DR- Apply for unemployment, collect your monies while you search for
employment. Do it ASAP most states require you to apply the first day you are
out of work. They also expect your to be looking that day.

IANAL, but I think you may be eligible for Unemployment insurance. Here in MD.
It's at-will emploement. You can be fired for any reason. But you'd be
eligible for Unemployment. The burden is on the employer to prove that you
were grossly insubordinate. Which it doesn't seem like you were. Also,
companies are expected to try an resolve issue like this without going as far
as to fire someone.

------
andykmaguire
Don't work anywhere that you're treated like a child. That "incentive program"
is infuriating.

------
jmnicolas
For a moment I though I add clicked on my Slashdot bookmark ...

------
fredgrott
Lesson, when needing cash for basic living expenses..keep head down and mouth
shut..

Yeah it sounds unfair..tough its way things are.. work the system not have
system work YOU!

------
sharemywin
consult an attorney on legality. Only an attorney is allowed to give legal
advice.

~~~
trose
Don't bother. As long as California is an at-will employment state (I'm pretty
sure it is) they can fire you for no reason at all.

~~~
dragonwriter
More importantly, one of the main reason that services like Kelly are used is
that _Kelly_ is the employer, not the company that is contracting for services
from Kelly, and Kelly didn't fire you -- a company that was contracting with
them exercised an option under their contract with Kelly to stop receiving
services from Kelly. As a result, Kelly doesn't have any work for you until
they get another request that you fit.

~~~
dllthomas
This seems like it would be pretty thin in the face of genuine wrongful
termination.

~~~
dragonwriter
Its pretty hard to have "genuine wrongful termination" without actual
termination. Especially if the staffing agency quickly finds you other work,
even if the other company motivation was "wrongful", you're going to have a
hard time establishing compensable harms stemming from it.

If the staffing agency knew of the wrongful reason, and because of it (or
because of the other company's decision to end your assignment with knowledge
of it) they then declined to assign you other work, you might have a case for
wrongful termination case against them (by way of constructive dismissal), but
there would seem to be a number of things you'd have to prove there that you
wouldn't in a direct employment wrongful termination case.

~~~
dllthomas
_' Its pretty hard to have "genuine wrongful termination" without actual
termination.'_

IANAL, but my understanding is that judges pretty quickly look past what
things are labelled. If the temp was able to quickly roll into another gig (or
the temp agency otherwise kept paying them), that's one thing. But I'd still
be very surprised if legal cleared "We don't have need for your services any
longer because you're black. We're contacting your temp agency for a white
replacement."

------
amakaruk
What's the name of the company? What's the name of the manager that got you
fired?

------
a3n
Here endeth the lesson.

------
michaelochurch
IANAL, but here's my read.

There's little you can do, and it sounds like it was a shitty job. Anything
you'd recover in a lawsuit (and winning one against them is a long-shot) is
going to be based on the income lost from that job, and wouldn't be worth it.
If you were a salaried employee, you might be able to push for a severance
(maybe a month?) on account of the circumstances your departure making them
look bad, giving them an incentive to settle. As a temporary hourly worker, I
don't think you have that credibility, and I think they can fire you pretty
much at will: your services aren't needed. A termination suit would be
unlikely to win you anything, and the reputation effect would cancel out what
you're likely to win.

If Juno Pacific harmed your reputation at Kelly Services, you might have a
claim of tortious interference. But, unless otherwise specified, JP has the
right to cut your hours to zero, which means terminating you.

It's going to be a he-said/she-said battle, but the truth is this: you made
the executives look cheap and stupid (because they are) and they canned you as
a "troublemaker". It's a tough call what is legal in dealing with
"troublemakers". Attempting to unionize (which is not really what you tried to
do) is protected and not fireable. Making executives look bad (which you did)
is "insubordination" and fireable. Where's the line between "a troublemaker"
and "insubordination"? Judgment call, very subjective. Is it right, what
happened to you? No, but that's how the system works right now.

Corporate survival protip: rabblerousing is rarely worth it. I know, from
experience. If you don't care enough to start a union (and that's a ton of
work) then you should just do your job and keep those sorts of opinions to
yourself. Shitty companies are like Wrongness on the Internet. If you fight
them all, you'll never get anything else done.

TL;DR: they probably didn't break the law, you almost certainly won't get
anything even if they did, and your best course of action is just to get
another (better) job.

