
The Dangers of Train Yards, Through the Eyes of Railroad Employees - ax00x
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/train-yard-photos-1960s
======
lbriner
Because of signal sighting rules in the UK, we experienced a lot of trouble
upgrading lines to higher speed. All of a sudden, that signal that you could
see for 10 seconds could now only be seen for 8 due to a bridge or whatever.
Muchos dollars relocating signals and in some places not being able to
increase the line speed at all.

Boring but very real reasons why we "can't just update things"

~~~
TylerE
Dunno why they don't just go ahead and bite the bullet and go to 100% in-cab
signaling. The technology has worked for decades and has been deployed on many
lines, including a few in the UK.

~~~
kposehn
Cab signaling requires a different set of standards in order to provide the
necessary level of safety.

Cab signals are (usually) transmitted through the rail and picked up by a
special receiver on the leading axle of the locomotive. Each locomotive has to
be equipped and the rails themselves have to be checked and blocked. This also
means the rails have a higher maintenance requirement as opposed to lineside
signals which can be more easily maintained.

However, some countries (Brazil predominantly) have embraced a GPS based cab
signal system where lineside signals are almost totally eliminated. However,
this was done with federal subsidies to cover the expense iirc.

Another example is the US Northeast Corridor where cab signals are used along
with lineside signals to provide a level of redundancy at speed.

Unfortunately there’s no easy solution, but I lean towards the Brazilian GPS
based systems from Wabtec.

~~~
gsnedders
Realistically, in the UK, it's going to be ETCS with balises: all new build
stock at this point either has ETCS in-cab signalling fitted, or is designed
for its fitment.

That said, the rollout of the infrastructure side of ETCS is somewhat delayed,
but it is happening in places (Thameslink is ETCS Level 2 with conventional
signal overlay, albeit with shorter blocks in ETCS; Crossrail is ETCS Level 2
with no overlay).

------
ChuckMcM
I got a chance to drive a couple of different engines at the Plumas rail
museum. And one of the things that does is help you internalize the amazing
amount of mass and momentum a train carries around all the time. The engineer
who was with us spoke of freight trains that were a hundred cars of iron ore
that, even though they were travelling at only 5mph would take nearly 1000' to
bring to an "emergency" stop. While I don't know how true that is, just
driving around the engine gave me some insight into how far ahead in time the
engineer has to be thinking if they are operating a full train.

~~~
sandworm101
>> 5mph would take nearly 1000' to bring to an "emergency" stop.

That seems far fetched. 1000' is a long way at 5mph. The number of engines
doesn't matter. Each car has its own brakes in an emergency. Cut pressure in
the line and every car will brake itself. Perhaps they meant situations
involving hills, not uncommon for ore trains heading from mines.

~~~
bigjimmyk3
A train's emergency braking system is somewhat sacrificial (using it can
damage engines, cars, etc.) so you're probably correct. I'd say that in either
case, most people who are not "train people" will dramatically underestimate
the required stopping distance. The mass of a fully loaded train is
surprisingly large.

~~~
code_duck
Car drivers tend to underestimate the amount of space it takes for a semi to
stop. Heck, every time I load up my car or attach a trailer, it takes time to
become accustomed to the decreased braking performance.

Drivers likely could not give an accurate estimation for how many feet it
takes to do anything on the road, such as come to a stop in an SUV going 50.
Given the extreme mass of a cargo train, I wouldn't be surprised if the
distance figures sounded high.

~~~
grkvlt
> how many feet it takes to do anything on the road, such as come to a stop in
> an SUV going 50

Isn't knowledge of stopping distances for vehicles at various speeds and
different road surface conditions a requirement for obtaining a driving
license? (At least, in the UK I believe it is, and I think the Highway Code
tables probably over-estimate these distances for safety purposes)

~~~
gsnedders
The Highway Code tables are based on an average family car in the 1960s (IIRC)
when the tables were first introduced. They're ridiculously long distances for
modern cars, though AIUI the "thinking time" part is nowadays thought to be
too low.

~~~
grkvlt
Still, that's not a _bad_ thing, per se. If we underestimate based on a
vaguely remembered overestimated value from the highway code based on 1960s
cars, then the effects cancel out and we're basically correct for modern
vehicles?

~~~
gsnedders
I /think/ I recall seeing something that claimed with longer reaction times it
actually ended up worse overall.

That said, I think often the bigger problem is people not realising especially
in more unusual conditions (like snow in much of Britain) quite how much
longer braking distances become.

------
CamTin
The fireman debate, where management argues that a position is no longer
necessary due to technological improvements, while the people actually doing
the work think or understand differently, should be familiar to almost anyone
in any field of work.

We're currently fighting a whole genre of fire at work that boils down to the
fact that a particular system, with many many finicky integrations both inside
the company and with rickety old 3rd-party systems, was designed with the
assumption that there was a so-called "junior QA" team who would be manually
looking for trends in error logs and failed task logs. This position was
eliminated with a corporate reorganization, and the many many moving pieces
are slowly getting rewritten with different assumptions about monitoring,
alerting, and logging, but in the meantime there is not anybody covering this
function. This means that we typically only have a chance to fix things after
they've started to be an actual nuisance to someone and they complain, whereas
with the old team in place we had a better shot at identifying problems before
they became a major nuisance and fixing them before anyone complained.

------
giarc
The title (Dangers of Train Yards) reminds me of a story told by an
acquaintance who worked in a yard many years ago. He said they would fuel the
engines by inserting a hose and letting it run. It would take a long time to
fill the tanks and so they would walk off to complete other tasks. They would
return and more often than not, the tank would just be overflowing diesel into
the ground. He didn't think they would ever be able to remediate rail yards
because of the contamination.

~~~
Kluny
The pumps at gas stations for cars have automatic backflow cutoff valves. I
wonder why this technology isn't available for trains?

------
regularfry
Just as interesting, linked from that page:
[https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-
calling-j...](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-
japan-trains)

Now I'm wondering about the cross-over between that and rubber-duck debugging.

~~~
Noumenon72
Patrick McKenzie says this is the procedure Japanese programmers use for
making changes in production! Now I know it came from the culture.

[https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1009235280530829313](https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1009235280530829313)

~~~
patio11
This is what some engineering shops have as standard practice in Japan, which
is a distinction with a difference.

------
nickhalfasleep
In North America, there is no longer a "Fireman" position on diesels. You have
the Engineer and the Conductor in the lead engine, and a "FRED" Flashing Rear
End Device on the rear to control the air brakes, report speed and
acceleration back to the head end.

More often these days, trains have extra engines on the end (and middle) that
are controlled from the front in Distributed Power Units (DPU's). By spreading
power out, you have more control, less stress on the couplers, can run a
longer train, and the air brakes respond faster (closer to each engine for
pressure changes and recharges).

------
tmoertel
There are some fascinating railroad photographs from an earlier era in the
Pennsylvania Railroad Photographs collection:

[https://historicpittsburgh.org/collection/pennsylvania-
railr...](https://historicpittsburgh.org/collection/pennsylvania-railroad-
photographs)

Many of the photographs feature gnarled old railroad bridges because of the
hills and rivers in the region. Because of the region's steel industry, many
photograph also feature smoke stacks and dirty skies.

Here is how the collection is described:

"""The Pennsylvania Railroad collection, held by the Archives Service Center,
includes 345 (nearly all of which are 8x10 in size) gelatin dry plate images
of railroad infrastructure dating from 1907-1917. Many of the images depict
construction and repair projects to the company's lines, both within the city
of Pittsburgh, as well as across the Midwest. Featured prominently in the
collection is the renovation and construction of the second track for the Ohio
Connecting Railway Bridge, located just north of downtown Pittsburgh. The
collection also includes numerous views of track re-grading operations which
occurred in Pittsburgh, as well as other major cities including Cleveland,
Chicago, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Detroit."""

------
steve_gh
I'm involved in a rail transformation project. We're now using AR as part of
the railway design process to ensure visibility of signals etc.

------
dmckeon
Not to make light of railyard hazards, but:

> the union had more than 30 railroad employees take photos of their workplace
> in an effort to demonstrate the hazards firemen could help navigate around.

suggests that the presumably union workers may have tended to choose to take
photos of the more (or most) dangerous locations.

For a company perspective from the 1940s, see ""Why Risk Your Life?" \-- 1940s
Railroad Safety Film"
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqpayZ2JqlU)

~~~
mturmon
...choose to take photos of the more (or most) dangerous locations...

That would be where the accidents happen, right? Thus the photos are taken
there.

~~~
giarc
I think OP is just commenting on how union workers would be a biased source on
just how common unsafe designs are.

------
abduhl
When I worked for BNSF I heard a story about a guy crushed between two cars in
the knuckle because he lost line of sight with his engineer and they were
using hand signals instead of a radio.

They were able to keep him alive long enough to cover him with a tarp and
bring his family in to say goodbye. He died immediately upon separation of the
knuckle.

~~~
lawnchair_larry
This is an old urban legend. Feel free to Google it, and you will see everyone
who has worked near trains knows a guy who knows a guy who this exact thing
happened to.

Edit: [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-last-
kiss/](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-last-kiss/)

~~~
pmyteh
That particular story is an urban legend, but fatal shunting accidents are
sadly not. See [https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/fatal-accident-at-
grosmont-n...](https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/fatal-accident-at-grosmont-
north-yorkshire) for a recent example (an amateur on a preserved steam line in
this case; the mainline railway in the UK minimises manual shunting as much as
possible)

~~~
kevin_thibedeau
No doubt exacerbated by the insistence on sticking with buffer and chain
couplers despite the availability of safer alternatives for 100+ years.

------
lucb1e
Historical, not current ones. I was talking to some friends about it just
yesterday and was looking forward to the driver's point of view.

Also, cookie wall. So the TLDR is that in the past, more people needed to be
employed on a train. The diesel came and they could redesign the locomotives
so no big boiler was in front which blocks visibility. Problem solved for the
railroads, but people unemployed. Apparently there are some historical
pictures that they took on rail yards to prove the visibility issue.

------
occamrazor
Interesting story. In Italy trains still require two engineers, although on
modern high speed ones the second engineer has to sit away from the windshield
and the controls.

------
raverbashing
Reminds me of this
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/7xqg0q/whats_the...](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/7xqg0q/whats_the_quickest_youve_noped_out_of_a_job/duafir1/)

