
Open Letter from a Eurocitizen Living in London: Brits, Vote for Brexit - Hjugo
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/koldo-casla/open-letter-from-eurocitizen-living-in-london-brits-vote-for-brexit
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mercurial
Is the European voice fading? When was "political Europe" ever a thing? Each
crisis sees individual European governments (or at best, regional blocks) go
in their own direction. You can even watch the farce unfold right now, with
the attitude towards Greece, where the neighbouring countries are basically
saying "that's not our problem". And let's not even talk about the "European
voice" on the topic of EU foreign policy, because there is no such thing.

And I don't see that changing. Due to a combination between structural issues,
different interests between North, West, East and South and the crisis-related
rise of right-wing populism across many European countries (to various
degrees, not every country has turned into Hungary), it's getting worse. And I
don't see what's going to change that.

I used to be in favour of an EU "federal state". Now, I'm not so sure.
Political union makes sense for countries with similar culture and economic
interests. But as it is, I see regional blocks, not political Europe. Maybe
dropping the common currency and splitting the EU into "mini-EUs" would be a
better approach?

~~~
return0
There are other pressures however. In a multipolar world, with the rise of the
chinese and the russian, a european pole sounds more fitting.

------
anexprogrammer
As someone who spent 20 or more years believing Britain should leave the
EEC/EU for the last decade or so I've been an increasingly enthusiastic
European. Not because I believe in the institution as such, but because it has
become the only real check on our ever more broken democracy.

Dear letter writer, the view from London counts for nothing, you should try a
view from the minor colonies (UK outside London and the home counties).

~~~
adiabatty
I'm on the other side of the pond, but: If London mostly ignores things
outside of London, what makes you think Brussels will be more attentive?

~~~
anexprogrammer
I don't think they are more attentive, but the framework currently curbs the
more extreme tendencies of our government(s). Most obvious example is the
human rights act (ironically the ECHR is not a body of the EU, despite most
media and political spin here implying it is), but also includes the
restrictions on GM, safety, and generally in the area of social, labour and
market regulation.

Yes, the UK has opted out of several parts, but it can't (yet) opt out of
everything. There's precious little accountability within the EU, but it does,
at least for now, hold a more centerist position.

Also the EU regional development funds have done more for the UK regions than
Westminster ever has.

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eponeponepon
Condensed somewhat: "Dear British voters: Give up. Your objectionable
government renders you people unwelcome in our club, and I want you out."

Condensed further: "Dear British voters: Screw yourselves. Literally."

Either way, this piece propounds a deeply and unnecessarily divisive opinion.
We are not our government, and it saddens me greatly to be reminded that the
exclusionist prejudices half the Commons are currently busy whipping up into a
frothing idiocy here are just as present on the continent.

~~~
toyg
The last few paragraphs make it clear it's mostly a satyrical take: the author
wouldn't vote for brexit if he were British, because there is nothing to gain
for the average guy, and even Farage would end up without the only parliament
he managed to get elected to.

But below the satyrical level, there is a point. The British government has
long been unpopular in European circles. British politicians insist in
interpreting the EU as a trade zone rather than a long-term federalist
project, and this is at odd with pretty much everyone else. Also, the EU got
too big too fast, and if it is to ever make real progress again, it will have
to slim down and lose troublesome countries (UK but also some of the Eastern
bloc and maybe Greece). In that sense, Brexit might be a belated step forward
for the Union, and it would likely hit only the British themselves (well,
maybe some French companies too).

~~~
gaius
A trade zone is what the people voted to join, tho'. We didn't sign up for a
federal superstate and if that is what the EU was planning all along, they did
a bait and switch.

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calpaterson
> increasingly interdependent world where European nation-states are
> decreasingly relevant.

I find this (fairly common) statement pretty opaque. I'd appreciate someone
explaining what he means and why it's a good argument.

~~~
mercurial
My take on it: the EU works by having state surrender part of their national
sovereignty, and instead go for a set of commonly-agreed rules.

However, transcontinental treaties like TTIP and its ISDS provision would
effectively remove a big chunk of each nation's (and the EU's as a whole)
capacity to make decision which could be seen as "business-unfriendly".
Additionally, the fact that modern economies are so intertwined make them
quite fragile (witness the way the financial crisis crossed oceans), which in
turn mean less control by national governments.

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return0
> special treatment as granted by the other EU member states. It did not adopt
> the Euro, it does not participate in Schengen, and it can pick and choose
> from within the areas of security, justice and police cooperation as it
> pleases

All of the european north is not in the Euro, other countries (e.g bulgaria)
are not in Shengen, and every other country has the same options too choose
(with consequences). There is nothing special about the UK in the EU, as much
as Cameron wants to claim the opposite. Despite political gestures, the UK has
no other option than to stay in the EU, the opposite would be inane. As the
author himself suggests, if they left, they would soon find themselves wanting
back, for purely practical reasons. They are not even a barrier to a closer
union, there are other more important issues.

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tarkin2
I saw a fair bit of anti-British thinking in the European deputies. I sense
France and Germany would be able to go through with a few things that
previously they couldn't. It's hard to say if this would actually benefit
Europe. It all depends if the UK's contribution to European debates is
actually productive.

It's almost certain Britain's trading position would be weakened outside the
EU. But I'm unsure if the EU would benefit from Britain's exit. It depends if
the UK is blocking things would be positive for the EU, something I've seen no
evidence of yet.

------
Oletros
I can't express it better. Please, leave

~~~
neximo4
The choice is really for British people not Euro mainlanders. The western
European nations, particularly the French do not like the UK in the EU.

There's a lot to be gained from being in the EU. As a startup having the
possibility to 'passport' into the EU is one of the most magnificent things,
one license 28+ countries. This includes banking & finance (FCA) licenses. It
is enviable to do this even in the US where 50 separate licenses are needed in
some cases.

~~~
Oletros
> The choice is really for British people not Euro mainlanders

Perhaps then should be a referendum to ask the "Euro mainlanders" if they want
a UK with the privileges they have

> There's a lot to be gained from being in the EU

Yes, but with the same rules than all the other countries, not like now that
they cherry pick what they want.

~~~
neximo4
> Perhaps then should be a referendum to ask the "Euro mainlanders" if they
> want a UK with the privileges they have.

The EU mainlander area's _elected_ representatives forged this deal.

The privileges the UK sought like the 'red card' system apply to the whole of
the EU.

There's nothing stopping an EU country from getting the same terms on the
integration bit, indeed some countries have done that to varying degrees -
Switzerland (EEC), Iceland (EEC), Denmark (own currency), Norway (EEC with EU
laws) & Sweden (own currency) & Turkey (customs union)

If you're a Spaniard don't you have to worry about Catalonia?

The EU allows states to 'minitiarize' and devolve down once the trivialities
of sovereignty and the '3 basics' EEC principles are sorted out

~~~
toyg
EU and EEC are different things. I don't think anybody would object to the UK
opting for staying in EEC but out of EU proper. After all that's what they
want: a trade zone.

~~~
neximo4
There are problems with being in the EEC but not in the EU.

For the 'sovereignty' issue this is the worst as there is no representation in
the creation of the laws. That would be even worse than being out of the EU.

Keep in mind Norway pays something like 90% per person of what the UK pays for
its EEC membership. One day Brussels will make a law Norwegians don't like and
they will be upset about it and won't be able to do anything about it.

A trade zone requires consistent laws among its members too.

