
Ten Finger Touch Screen Keyboard - guavaroo
http://solidsmack.com/3d-cad-technology/this-digital-10-finger-keyboard-of-the-future-is-simply-brilliant/
======
jaysonelliot
I love chord keyboards as a concept, but I've never committed to one because
I've been wary of acquiring a skill on such a specific device, and then not
having access to one unless I bring it with me. Making a chorded keyboard a
software solution is very appealing for that reason, especially if ASETNIOP
were to become a standard approach.

For what it's worth, the first mouse was intended to be used in conjunction
with a chorded keyboard when Doug Engelbart invented it in 1963:
<http://dougengelbart.org/images/pix/img0030.jpg>

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TuringTest
I've tried the online tutorial, and it's surprising how quick I've noticed
some muscle memory for the most frequent chords (for letters r, h, d, l).

I think they've found something with the "always use the same finger as in
QWERTY, plus another one". I was skeptical that users could ever adapt to a
new layout, but this isn't exactly that, so it has potential.

The best thing is that it doesn't interfere with the existing skill on the
QWERTY keyboard.

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pkamb
People in this topic might be interested in a project of mine: one-handed
typing using your existing two-handed muscle memory.

Basically the muscle memory you use to type "F" is the same as typing "J";
index finger, home row. Your left hand already has the muscle memory to type
right-hand characters, and vice versa. Press the "mirrored" key with the other
hand... your brain should be able to make this substitution almost
automatically.

Add some software predictive text and you can suddenly type _fast_ with one
hand with hardly any learning. Especially good for temporary hand injuries.

Mac or PC: <http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/download/>

~~~
goldfeld
Sounds like really cool software! Is it agnostic of my keyboard layout? Dvorak
user here.

That would mean I can not only freak out people that my keys don't type what
they say, but that I only need one hand and somehow it works out what I want.
People will surely take me for a con artist.

~~~
pkamb
I'm actually a Dvorak typist myself, so it definitely works! English
dictionary and Qwerty/Dvorak layout only for now.

~~~
pcl
I just downloaded the sample app. Neat stuff.

Is caps-lock toggling the only way to use it in the paid app, or does the menu
item turn it on and off? Do numbers and other coding-symbols get chorded in
the main app? Also, is there any research into how long it takes to go from
Dvorak to this sort of style?

~~~
pkamb
Thanks for trying the app. How does the technique work for you? I don't have
any official numbers, but it seems like many people can type 30+ words per
minute with very little learning. Faster with practice.

Currently no chording for numbers or programmer symbols. Basic punctuation
marks (,.:;?! etc.) are predicted at the end of words. Caps Lock is the
current toggle switch, but I'll be adding a custom option in the next version.

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breadbox
My favorite part of the video is where they explain all the cool things you
can do ... WITH A KEYBOARD.

Seriously, though. I've experimented with chording keyboards in the past.
Conceptually they're quite cool, but their advantages are outweighed by the
finickiness of having to master a new set of split-second timing issues. I can
only imagine having zero tactile feedback on top of all that. (And then opting
for zero visual feedback as well?)

~~~
cincinnatus
Try the demo for 10 minutes. Convinced me.

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hahainternet
It frustrates me that there's no mention of Android. This could have been a
working demo with an APK provided. I'm not sure about the overlay mode but it
may be possible.

edit: As an update to this, it looks like it's possible the keyboard could be
set to a 0 height View, and the Candidates view could be used, as that does
not cause an application to be resized.

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purplelobster
I don't think any method of input that relies on auto-complete, suggestions or
predictions can ever reach the utility of a physical keyboard. Also, most
people have invested years learning the normal qwerty keyboard, I don't see
how people would be willing to adopt anything new unless it's better in all
cases (including corner cases like <>!/\\{}[]), or they have absolutely no
choice (T9).

The only way I could see any improvement for touch screens is if you could
track finger tips while they're hoovering, so that you get more information to
disambiguate what the user is intending.

~~~
jiggy2011
Autocomplete is a bugbear of mine, since it's the fastest way to type on a
touch keyboard and people have a bad habit of not proof reading stuff that
they are sending.

It seems that at least every few days I get an Email like this.

Subject: Very Important!

< Incomprehensible >

Sent from my iPhone

~~~
purplelobster
Well, that is certainly one of the main problems with it. For me it comes down
to the edge cases. My Apple password contains letters, numbers and special
characters. It takes me about a minute to type it on the iPhone. If you have
to rely on auto complete for edge cases, then you can never accomplish more
than the most shallow content creation, such as sexting or 5 word emails.

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Skywing
I'm surprised that they emphasize the fact that the keyboard can be invisible
or small. Personally I think that's the most confusing feature because it
leaves you tapping on the screen, or website as in the video. That aspect to
me is not very intuitive as to whether or not I'm typing currently or trying
to navigate the website by tapping a link, etc. Also, if it's invisible, how
do you know when the keyboard is brought up on screen? Does it appear and then
quickly fade away, or does it appear at all? Both cases seem unnatural at
least to me, since I'm just not used to it.

Other than that, I think it looks pretty awesome. The multi-finger gesture
typing looks pretty quick and intuitive.

~~~
jamesrcole
I think that if it can be done right, that'd be the coolest feature of it.

I imagine it'd be possible to detect that you've got all of your fingers
resting on the screen in the 'keyboard' configuration, and only 'activate' the
keyboard when that's the case.

Like how with an iPhone it can distinguish when you press and slide your
finger to scroll from when you press your finger to tap a link.

I think it'd be a cool feature because it'd give you so much more screen space
for visible content (like when you're editing a document), and less of the
context-switch that happens when an on-screen keyboard pops up.

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SeanLuke
Why is "p" a non-chorded letter? Clearly the other letters were chosen because
they're the seven most common letters in the English language. But letter
number 8 is "h", followed by "r". "p" is way down at #19. Is it just to
maintain some semblance of compatibility with QWERTY? This seems short-
sighted.

~~~
d0m
"semblance of compatibility with QWERTY"

Probably. I've went through the tutorial and particularly liked how it felt
like qwerty even if it was very different at the same time.

You can say it's "short-sighted" but lots of amazing new keyboard layout were
not adopted because it never went mainstream.

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denzil_correa
I am unable to open this page since 4 hours now.

    
    
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~~~
keso
I guess <http://asetniop.com/> has the original video.

~~~
denzil_correa
Thanks.

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chj
Looks awesome at the first sight.

But then when you think harder, a big design flaw is that you need to put ten
fingers on this keyboard to locate the keys correctly. You will have hard time
use only one hand, let alone two fingers.

~~~
ansgri
It's no design flaw, it's constraining your problem to find the most efficient
solution within those constraints.

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joe_the_user
I think the ideal phone/tablet keyboard would be a "transparent" system based
on holding the back of the screen (edit: no real estate lost and great
ergonomics).

Microsoft patented the idea a while back and among other sucky things about
patents, they may simply not implementing it at all.

[http://www.patentbolt.com/2012/05/microsoft-invents-
portable...](http://www.patentbolt.com/2012/05/microsoft-invents-portable-
devices-with-transparent-displays.html)

~~~
epaik
Interesting! This reminds me of the new Playstation Vita's rear touch sensor.
I think it's definitely a step in the right direction of preserving screen
estate for what its primary function should be.

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capex
Asetniop is a terrible name. It might be very intuitive to those who know your
key arrangement, but for newcomers, the name conveys nothing.

~~~
stevewillows
They probably did the same about qwerty.

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obilgic
Can we also have a physical keyboard with just 11 keys on it?

~~~
btn
Sure; physical chording keyboards have been around for decades:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chording_keyboard>

~~~
HarryHirsch
Indeed, they are called Stenotypes. Court reporters write on them at rates of
180 wpm, real champions reach twice that. But this ASETNIOP that's sold here
says that experienced users reach just 80 wpm. What's up there, is it poor
design?

~~~
btn
I suspect the lack of any tactile/haptic feedback introduces a small
refractory period between keys/letters.

~~~
thegoleffect
Also, the chording behavior has a timeout between keypresses. So if you type
"a" & "s" quickly (intending them to be separate), it is interpreted as a
single "as" chord. You have to wait a bit after each keyup.

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beemoe
I find that using that two finger combination for backspace is tedious,
particularly because there are no arrow keys to correct errors without
repeatedly pressing backspace.

Speaking of "discouraging use of the arrow keys", Imagine using ASETNIOP with
vim: Despite the combo probably being a disaster in many ways, vim's use of y
and p might ease some of the copy/paste issues.

At least we(QWERTY, Dvorak, Colemak, and ASETNIOP EDIT: Not the french
though...) can all agree on how to press the letter 'a' (and nearly 'm').

I would point anyone looking for the perfect non-chording keyboard to the
kinesis advantage, regardless of your favorite layout. <http://www.kinesis-
ergo.com/advantage.htm>

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Ygg2
I'm getting a 404 on this page. Does anyone have a link web-cached link or
something?

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evoxed
Direct link to the virtual keyboard trainer (set your input manager to
US/qwerty first): <http://asetniop.com/keyboardTutorial.html>

~~~
relic
Very cool, but the fact that the keyboard on the screen doesn't match the
output (input?) nor the asetniop 'idea' makes it incredibly confusing and was
enough for me to say 'ok, I'm done'. Unless it's just a problem that I'm
experiencing, it doesn't seem like the author (or anyone) ever tested this
tutorial out.

~~~
johnzdennis
I was working on the versions for Colemak and Dvorak users at the same time
and forgot to update the original; it's sorted now. Please give it another
try!

~~~
evoxed
Good to know. I was just setting up a test version in kr4mb with a dvorak
variation to give it a shot.

~~~
johnzdennis
Here's the Dvorak version for keyboards:

<http://asetniop.com/keyboardTutorialDvo.html> OR
<http://asetniop.com/keyboardTutorialDvoQ.html>

Depends on whether your keyboard is mapped to the Dvorak layout or Qwerty
(basically, try one, if it doesn't work the way it's supposed to, use the
other one)

and for iPads:

<http://asetniop.com/ipadTutorialDvo.html>

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cinbun8
Most people have a hard time with typing stuff into an iPad as it is. While
you can probably type easily with a concept like this, getting users to
understand the chorded keyboard will be a major challenge. There are folks
that don't even get swype and the dictionary keyboard. If you can get over
that bump, the product has potential.

I would not hide the keyboard for any reason. It can confuse people pretty
easily. If I try to click a button on a website and end up typing a character
instead, it can drive me nuts.

Cool concept.

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zheng
The keyboard trainer seems to be slightly broken, ASET != ARST and NEIO !=
NIOP. I'm on Win7, Chrome 23

<http://i.imgur.com/cdQdj.png>

~~~
johnzdennis
Sorry about that - I was working on the CHORDMAK (Colemak-based) version at
the same time and forgot to fix it. It's sorted now - thanks for the heads up!

~~~
lps41
Unrelated but I'm replying to this comment so you will hopefully see...

You guys should add a feature to your website for requesting to be added to a
mailing list for information on product development, release dates, etc.

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ablefire
Reminds me of the Microwriter and the AgendA. They did not have auto-complete
but were very efficient for text entry and relatively easy to learn.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwriter>

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andyhmltn
The idea of it being invisible is stupid. But I like the idea behind chord
keyboards.

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donebizkit
it's funny how he writes two lines then stops because his hands are
obstructing the view

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mef51
pretty fun!

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goggles99
Ahh novelties... Not sure why I am reading about one on HN.

