
Ask HN: I am torn between whether I should do MBA or not. Thoughts? - kakekickball
I work for one of the BIGCO. I am debating with myself whether I should go for MBA or not. I need some guidance from people who have done their MBA. 
I have bachelor degree in Engineering. I don&#x27;t like or don&#x27;t want to get MS degree. My academics are good and I can say I have a good chance of getting into top 10 schools for the MBA.<p>I am Manager in my current role and have 10 years of experience in software development. I want to move into executive management at a mid size or large company. I will be specifially looking for eMBA as opposed to MBA option.<p>1. Does it make sense to do eMBA?<p>2. I did some research for MBA salaries from top schools and it seems that MBA salaries are in range of $125k to $150k. I make around same range right now without MBA.<p>Is doing MBA beneficial for big jump?<p>3. Last question is, what is best way to get into executive management ?
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rayiner
If you want to get into executive management and can get into a top school,
getting an MBA is a good idea. Consider going the management consulting route.
You'll get a substantial pay increase a couple of years out, and exiting to
upper management after being a consultant is not uncommon.

I detect you're a non-native speaker. A noticeable accent is going to be
bigger problem if you're gunning for executive management than in tech. I'd
invest in some language coaching.

~~~
kakekickball
Hi, thanks for the comment. Yes, I grew up in SE Asia and moved to US at the
age of 23. Did you find some sentence structure unusual or was it lack of
article use that gave you hint ?

~~~
nopinsight
I'd recommend getting a writing coach. I also grew up in Southeast Asia and
only started to speak and write in English as an adult. There are a number of
major grammatical patterns that we tend to struggle with, since our languages
are quite far removed from English, historically and culturally. For me it
took a few highly-educated native speakers pointing them out in my own writing
to truly understand many subtle rules and I'm still trying to internalize
them.

If any native speakers would like to help their fellow HNer, I still welcome
non-native error/style detection with sincere appreciation. ;)

~~~
occultcry
Any recommendations?

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eroo
perspective: finished first year @ wharton mba and taking a year off before
second year to do an ms in cs (background is quant but not super computational
- I'm really enjoying diving deeper into the latter now though).

1) Only do the eMBA if you can get BIGCO to pay for it. Price is unreasonable
because it's expected to be expensed to an employer and it is a serious time
commitment. I don't think it'd be worth it unless BIGCO is invested in you
enough to sponsor.

2) 11-12 year experience upon entry is late for full-time MBA (mean is 5, max
is 13). The MBA won't give you the boost to executive management - no one
hires fresh MBAs for exec roles. MBA or not, that'll only come from hustle.

3) No empirical data, but my working theory is f(work incredibly hard, be kind
to people and foster both friendships and partnerships, always be seeking out
opportunity)

Misc: the coursework can be really useful/fun depending on the program. For
example, Wharton lets me do the coursework equivalent of a grad degree in
statistics w/i the mba. Lastly, the ready access to such a diversity of smart,
ambitious people mid-career is really cool.

Happy to chat further if you'd like or put you in touch with MBA or eMBA
students/adcom folks.

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thegranderson
Do not have an MBA, but many friends who have gone to the top 3-5 schools, as
well as some who did eMBA/part-time MBA programs.

There are a few worthwhile reasons to get an MBA, but one really trumps the
rest.

As some others have said, the overwhelming value of an MBA is to build strong
relationships with future business leaders. End of story. If you don't want to
spend 2 years doing that and pay for it, don't do an MBA.

Those I've talked with that did an eMBA mostly regretted it because they were
incredibly busy, and barely had time to meet anyone in the program, let alone
build strong relationships with them.

If you don't have much background in management or business (most of which you
can get from reading books) the course material will be helpful, but you could
just as easily learn it on the job - if you can get the job. That is the other
reason to get an MBA; to get into a company who requires it, though these are
increasingly become less mandatory.

There are many answers to the question of how to get to executive management,
but I think a very common one, which is likely to work for most people is the
following: work at a service provider which gives you some strong
functional/business skills (e.g., consulting, investment banking, equity
research, marketing strategy, etc.). Do well there, but don't stay too long.
From there, take a middle-management role (e.g, director, VP) at a corporation
that is growing fairly quickly. Make your way up, and probably switch to
another firm if you're not advancing quickly where you are.

Be careful of the trap of not having operating responsibility - you won't have
this as a consultant or investment banker. If you don't have experience owning
a P&L, you can't be trusted to do so even if you smart and capable. You could
be in corporate strategy, corporate development, etc. but those are not true
executive management roles.

Wow that went longer than I intended so I'm going to stop rambling.

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biocomputation
Definitely don't get an MBA if you're not actually interested in learning the
material covered by the program.

I also didn't get a pay raise, and I didn't use the connections I made, but
learning the material was extremely helpful: market forces, positioning,
statistics/analysis, strategy. I still skim email newsletters I get from
McKinsey & Co. / Wharton a few times a week, and HBR has some incredibly good
articles every now and again.

Source: C++ developer with MBA in marketing.

~~~
spydum
This is something I have discussed with others: why bother to pay for an mba
in this day and age? Concepts and terminology can be learned at a
library/online. Honestly the ONLY appeal I can foresee is the social
connections, which tend to benefit more only if you land a top school. Surely
there are better ways?

~~~
jstandard
What is missing from learning the concepts on your own are the different
perspectives and problem solving approaches from fellow students. Over time,
this has a big impact on your personal toolset to see problems from multiple
angles you simply wouldn't have considered before.

Quite often during case study discussions one or more of my peers was from the
industry being discussed and provided an insider look at the problem. In other
situations my professor was a leading industry expert or seasoned executive in
the subject matter.

Do you pay a premium? No doubt. Cost/benefit is a very personal decision in
the case of an MBA.

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bcheung
If you're already making the kind of money an MBA would doesn't seem like it
makes a lot of sense. What's the point of paying lots of money and spending
all that time to make the same as what you are now? You're salary will go up
from real world experience and increased skills from working on the job too.
In my experience, only really large companies where you probably don't want to
work pay more as you get more degrees.

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hellcow
Though I don't have an MBA, everyone I know that's been through HBS recommends
going for one reason and one reason alone: connections. You're there to meet
people, make friends, and expand your network.

Since the goal is to network, you want to maximize your time there. I'd elect
to go through the full 2 years.

~~~
sjg007
Yes. Aim high.

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eappleby
I faced a similar question about 10 years ago. I had a bachelors in
engineering (comp sci), I didn't want an MS or PhD, I had solid grades, and I
wanted to move into "executive management" (whatever that meant). I ended up
getting my MBA at a top 10 school, landed a business role at a large company,
and a few years later, started my own company. Business school was right for
me and I think it came down to the way I answered one question about myself...

Am I the type of person that embraces new opportunities and takes risks with
my career?

At the time, I think the answer was no and as a result, business school worked
out great. It introduced me to new career paths, brought in companies for me
to interview with, and helped me engage with individuals with vastly different
perspectives than my own. If the answer would have been yes, then business
school would not have been the right choice. I was 26 when I started business
school (pretty common age), and a person's late 20s is one of the best times
to explore new directions and be creative with their career, since you already
have some work experience and capital, but likely no children. The 2 years
spent in business school (or 4 years if, god forbid, you go the consulting or
banking route) is valuable time that could be spent taking bold risks.

If you believe that, then to answer your questions...

1\. No, an eMBA does not make sense because you are both allocating your time
to business school, which can help you identify new career opportunities, but
you are also locked in to the company that is sponsoring you, so you aren't as
free to explore elsewhere.

2\. If you are already making $150k+, then there won't be much impact to your
life until you make $1M+, so the salary difference shouldn't be factored in
one way or another.

3\. What do you mean by executive management? Different executive roles
require pretty different career paths, and becoming an executive at a large
company is probably 10+ years out, which is likely too far to really plan for.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your next steps.

~~~
chrisgoman
I agree with #1, pay your own way. What I did was make my company expense by
hotel stays as a business expense but paid my own school expenses. I lived 60
miles from work and 60 miles from school. Work and school was 20 miles in
between so I basically just stayed at a hotel somewhere in between

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skierscott
I'm a second year graduate student in CS and also debating getting an MBA.

I currently study optimization and machine learning, and in the future I'd
like to lead a team of people studying similar topics. Initially, my goal was
to stay an academia and become a professor, but now I believe I'd like to be
in industry doing similar tasks.

~~~
faceyspacey
start doing stuff, stop going to school. don't "believe you'd like to be in
the industry." BE in it to find out.

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eb0la
Looks you're doing a cost-benefit analysis of getting an MBA ;-)

In my country, you need an MBA to get into mid-upper level management
positions just because almost everybody is having one just to differentiate
from others.

The cost of getting an MBA - paid by you - is nearly the same of running a
business for 2-3 years. And it also reflects you have knowledge about managing
business when your own money is at stake.

A lot of people wants an MBA for the connections: get an MBA because you want
to hear and discuss a lot of different points of view o a lot of business
subjects in a short (1 year) time. Connections are useful if you can make use
of them (like making business together with other people).

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wageslave2
You are an engineer and choose management long ago. Your life does not matter
to the progress of the world. You must be in capable of coding. So the best
thing for you is to do mba because there is nothing note worthy you can do. At
least by this way you will stop worrying. I am stating factual observation of
the world.

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0max
To quote a line from the documentary "Something Ventured":

"Who needs Harvard Business School when you have Silicon Valley Business
School."

To be fair, I'm most likely paraphrasing. That being said I only have a
GED/Some College experience and I've made it into Product Management.

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chrisgoman
The answer to all your questions is "it depends" (yeah, cliche). I have an BS
Architecture (not from the USA) so I had to no choice but to get an MBA degree
(from the USA). I did kind an "eMBA" (basically working full time) from a Top
something school

1) Yes, if you have an engineering degree. Business is like another language
so there is jargon in accounting, marketing, finance, etc that you need to
learn. If you are not getting that at work, the MBA will at least enable you
to understand "executive-level" conversations. Most of them are common sense
(you can pick it up from context) but it is way different if presented to you
in a rigid, structured, organized fashion vs listening to random
conversations. You can obviously learn this all from Khan Academy ...

The other overlooked thing here is the people that you meet. On the more
expensive programs (>$100k+), the pitch will be you will meet the same quality
people as you (same aspirations) and that is true to a degree as the quality
of your education will be partly affected by who is in your class. Make sure
you go the MAIN CAMPUS of the school and not a off-campus thing. I personally
felt the on-campus experience was great (we have a good football team so that
helps)

2) When I did my eMBA (graduated in 2004), the salaries were around $80-85k. I
realized that most of the people in the program were making around $40-50k and
hoping to get that bump. I was making about $150k/yr at the time so this
wasn't really the reason why I went to get my MBA (it was to get a U.S.
degree) so you will just get some funny looks when you tell people you don't
have any interviews set up. Most BIGCOs (specially consulting firms) value an
MBA, I guess because they can mark up your rates.

As an engineer and a TECHNICAL manager (not just a "manager"), you will most
likely make more money than 90% of the MBAs even without an MBA. Salary is NOT
one of the reasons you are doing this.

3) Getting into executive management is more about opportunity and luck. You
could be the most qualified person in your company but there only so many
seats to go around (1 VP Eng, 1 CTO, etc.) so you may have to look elsewhere.
An MBA will certainly help but it will NOT be the main reason you get there.
The MBA just lets people know you have met a "bar" (like "ok so this guy knows
the basic business stuff") so they can check that box off when shortlisting
candidates. At the end of the day, it will be how much value you can bring to
the table in totality. Executive management is less being a "manager" but
being a "leader" as your role will have a lot more impact in the company (in a
normal, sane, non-dysfunctional company) and you will have to think more
strategically. The MBA will have courses in "Strategy" that will allow you to
have some structures, words to communicate in your head when you present your
plan to the people. You can have all the strategy in the world but if you
cannot communicate it in a structured, organized & impactful way, then you
will not get the job. It's not just using BS buzzwords but really making the
board (or CEO) imagine that you are ALREADY in executive management.

~~~
slgeorge
I completely agree with your point 3). If the primary goal is to get into
"executive management" then that should be the basis of analysis - and there'
s more than one way to do it. _Talent /skill_, _luck_ and _opportunity_ are
all important, it's worth considering how to impact those parameters from your
unique circumstance . For example, most large organisations identify key
talent and have a track for exec management, getting onto that track by
networking and receiving good internal talent scores is one route. In another
organisation it might be a case of figuring out if there's a way to progress
within the existing structure and asking for support training. And then if
there's no possible route, figuring out the best organisation to join where
there will be a route.

In all cases there are (as you say) only a few seats at the top tier, so make
sure you're doing work that you enjoy 90% of the time, doing something
horrible for 5 years so that you have a possible opportunity in the future
isn't a good trade-off in my opinion.

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hyperliner
You really should think long and hard about WHY do YOU think you WANT or NEED
an MBA.

a) Because you love to learn something new <== Good reason, albeit expensive.
You can read the books or do online classes.

b) Because you want to make more money <== This is possible, but it's not
guaranteed, especially at the level of incomes you already have.

c) Because you want to have a diploma on the wall <=== Questionable reason,
but hey, who am I to tell you how to spend your money?

d) Because you want to broaden your horizons into areas you have never
stretched into (private equity, investment banking, Marketing, strategy, M&A,
etc etc). <== Good reason. If you love it, and you end up getting well paid
for it, awesome.

e) Because you want to go into a different career path <== Excellent reason.
An MBA gives you many choices, not all of which lead to higher incomes, but it
opens doors to different career paths.

f) Because you want to be a great tech+biz hybrid. <== Also a great reason.
But it depends on where you want to work: large companies will value you.
Small startups will probably not value your hybrid skills as much, or may be
counter productive.

g) Because your parents want to have an MBA in the family <=== Terrible
reason.

h) Because you want to meet people and build a network <=== Seems expensive
for that reason. However, several schools do have specific areas where the
networks are strong: MARKETING, TECH, ENERGY, etc. So if you want to work in
those industries, getting an MBA from a school with that network will be very
useful

i) Because you dont want to still be an engineer when you are 50. <== This is
a tough one that I have been helping a colleague with lately. Reality is that
there is age discrimination in the work force. Being an old engineer requires
being an AWESOME engineer. I have heard from other engineers that it is tough
to be old and mediocre (though you can be young and mediocre). If you are old,
then being in some other function (or in management in technology) gives you a
longer career to retire on. Of course, if you are awesome, then nobody cares
that you are old.

It seems you want to go into "Executive Management." That is a whole different
question. The first question to ask is : what kind of company? Then research
whether those companies value it.

I made my decision based on [a][d][e][f] and it worked really well for me. But
maybe I was lucky and had a lot of people who helped me a along the way. I
have heard others who make it into executive management due to some other
reasons (hard working, right time right place, family connection, tag along a
friend who is going up, etc.). So I am not sure one leads to the other.

These days, it seems that being an engineer is an awesome way to have a huge
impact (unless you are in I.T. or something like that). I think I would still
choose to get an MBA today, but I still think i will go for an MS when I am 50
or so, because of reasons [a][d] above.

I hope this is useful.

Good luck with your decision!

~~~
slgeorge
Your reasons a) and d) are really important as they protect the downside risk
if b) doesn't come off. Most people do some form of structured education
because they believe that the skills they acquire will be more valuable and
that will lead to a better salary. But, simply understanding more of what's
happening around you and being inquisitive into different areas is fantastic.

The reason you didn't mention is that _after_ you're in some management role
then having the knowledge is useful, it at least gives you a starting position
to work from. There are managers who don't have the width of practical
experience to move into wider ranging roles but have the talent - executive
management training is really helpful in this case.

