

Edward Snowden asylum: Bolivian president's plane diverted - live coverage - teawithcarl
http://guardiannews.com/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

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StavrosK
Oh wow, this sounds very significant. Looks like the US is trying to show the
world that nobody exposes shady government tactics and lives.

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shirro
No, they are trying to show the world the value of collecting data on millions
of innocent law abiding citizens and how it enables accurate targeting of
which plane a whistleblower is on almost as well as it can prevent terrorists
bombing marathons and flying into buildings.

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frisco
That's such a weird request. What, Portugal or France were going to shoot down
the Bolivian president's plane if it didn't comply? Yeah, ok.

I find it odd that this was demanded, and also odd that it then happened.
Anyone have insight on either of these counts?

EDIT: Portugal

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lotharbot
Apparently the Bolivian presidential aircraft is a Sabreliner [0], which has a
much shorter range than a big commercial jet. It may be unable to cross the
Atlantic without a fuel stop near the coast. If Spain, France, and Portugal
all say "don't fly here", they may not intend to shoot the thing down, but
they might very well refuse to allow the aircraft to refuel when it lands.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabreliner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabreliner)

~~~
imsofuture
I believe it's a Dassault Falcon. See:
[http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/fab-001](http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/fab-001)

Still a good point, but a Falcon has about twice the range.

~~~
lotharbot
Ahh, I failed to check the date on the "Falcon grounded" note at
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_stat...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_transports_of_heads_of_state_and_government#Bolivia)

Either way, though, flying from Moscow to Bolivia is going to require a fuel
stop or two, and the middle of the Atlantic is not a good place for that.

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mtowle
Ohhh I get it. Very clever, Wikileaks!

Certain countries, I believe Switzerland is one, require for asylum some
_proof_ that your home country/maybe certain other countries can't protect
you.

This was a show of proof. They knew somebody would take the bait.

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swang
When you seek asylum it is because you seek protection from your home country.

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kinghajj
Which country do you think is most likely to have
encouraged/compelled/suggested/persuaded/etc. these ones to act this way?

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naeem
There's no confirmation yet of Snowden being on board, however wikileaks has
offered this cryptic tweet:

"The reported actions of France, Portugal and Spain this night will live in
infamy."

Source: [http://thegrandsignal.com/edward-snowden-supposedly-
stranded...](http://thegrandsignal.com/edward-snowden-supposedly-stranded-in-
austria-bbc-denies/)

~~~
mark_l_watson
If this turns out to be true, I will never again travel to these countries and
spend my tourist dollars there. Not saying this is true, but if it is, NO MORE
FRENCH CHEESE :-)

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guelo
Freedom fries!

~~~
Jgrubb
This is seriously a crazy, upside down world we live in lately.

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jstalin
Hopefully Morales' plane was just a diversion and there's another plane with
Snowden on it on its way somewhere else...

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pvnick
Oh God that be wonderful

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r-s
It would be scary if Snowden is not heard from within a day or two after this.
Doesn't seem like he would ever be the type to vanish purposely.

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res0nat0r
Latest update:

less than 1m ago Snowden is not on the plane, AFP reports AFP are reporting
that Austrian foreign ministry officials have confirmed Edward Snowden is not
on the plane.

The report continues:

"President Morales will leave early Wednesday morning for La Paz," the
Bolivian capital, ministry spokesman Alexander Schallenberg told AFP. Austria
did not know why Morales's plane had landed there, he added.

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sp332
Ah, so much passive voice! _Who_ forced the plane to be re-routed?

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mtowle
A man after my own heart. Do programming textbooks/tutorials pain you as well?

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sergiotapia
Ex-pat in Bolivia here. People here are _pissed_ at this abuse. I wish Snowden
does make his way here to Bolivia and hides in the jungle. Good luck finding
him.

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lmgftp
An interesting choice if he were seeking to flee (/defect, perhaps) to
Bolivia, as they have an extradition treaty with the United States [1].

It's bilateral, but I wonder if the Bolivians would keep him after the US
refused to send them their former coca-growing president [2].

[1] [http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/traites/en_traites-ext-
us...](http://www.oas.org/juridico/mla/en/traites/en_traites-ext-usa-bol.pdf)
[PDF]

[2]
[http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/12/why_did_the...](http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/09/12/why_did_the_obama_administration_deny_bolivia_s_extradition_request)

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zalew
Having an extradition treaty doesn't automatically mean that the process will
be successful or quick.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition)
So don't hold your breath.

> US refused to send them their former coca-growing president

Not a shocker to me. They refused Poland sending a guy involved in contracting
mob hitmen on our national police chief
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mazur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mazur)

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eloisius
Clearly of no significance, but after reading Snowden's statement last night,
I decided to research notable examples of stateless persons and found this
guy:
[https://twitter.com/mikegogulski/status/352040771853099008](https://twitter.com/mikegogulski/status/352040771853099008)

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steve19
He is not stateless. He is a US citizen being pursued by US Law enforcement.

Stateless people do exist and they really have it hard.

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throwit1979
You should correct the wikipedia article, then. According to it, he renounced
his citizenship, became stateless, and prior to that he served his probation
sentence, and is therefore not wanted by US law enforcement.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gogulski](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Gogulski)

Always annoying when Wikipedia is wrong about everything.

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jeltz
Interesting to see that France and Portugal are willing to risk their
diplomatic relations with South America for getting Snowden. I would not have
expected that. I would guess people and politicians in Bolivia are quite
pissed right now.

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teawithcarl
The Guardian's "live blog" is the first place to look when Snowden news blows
up.

NYT's The Lede Blog is also excellent (currently blogging Egypt news).

[http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/](http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/)

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TillE
The Guardian does a superb job with live web coverage of everything from
football (soccer) matches to breaking news around the world. It's sort of just
coincidence that they have a direct connection to the Snowden story in this
case.

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staircasebug
No Snowden on board? Hiding in the smuggler cargo bays, perhaps?

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httpteapot
I am ashamed to be French.

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paul_f
If not on the plane, then exactly where ARE Butch and Sundance? I have to
know!

