
Real-Life Massive Multi-Player Spy Game - captaincrunch
http://labs.blue74.com/
======
geekfactor
Promoting a game like this would be an interesting way for China, Russia,
NastyCorp, etc. (insert bad guy) to cultivate a network of HUMINT sources
within the U.S. for low priority work. Create and run it as a game until
you've got someone who lives near that scientist you want to keep tabs on:

"Welcome operative. Your neighbor at 2201 Main is also playing, and is your
next target. To earn points, select from the missions below:

(500 points) For each day of the week of 2/24, call your handler at
212-555-1212 [twilio number] and report the time that the target returns home
from work.

(1000 points) Your target has left an important clue in his trash. Rifle
through his trash midday to find the clue. You will have to determine what it
is. When you've found it, mail it to 2222 Anystreet."

~~~
itistoday
Nice! Crowdsourcing national intelligence, now there's a way to reduce the
deficit. ;)

~~~
zerokyuu
Plus, you are _charging_ them to collect the intelligence for you!

------
giberson
I guess my concern might be the potential for actual crime being unknowingly
committed by game partakers.

As a simple example, I could imagine a simple "courier mission" which uses a
player to pickup and to deliver a package. If the mission is to covertly
deliver the package without disturbing the contents, who knows what those
contents might be (ie drugs, illegal content).

Another example might be a reconnaissance mission where you have to follow and
observe (presumably) another player. Of course such a mission could be abused
as well, perhaps by making the subject someone that isn't actually a player.
Suddenly you've gone from playing a game to stalking an unwitting individual.

I'm actually quite intrigued by the game idea--personally I'd like to submit
my $5 and play but I'm having trouble ignoring my (perhaps overactive)
imagination.

~~~
tomrod
This is quite similar to the setup in Daniel Suarez's novel, but with updated
tech.

~~~
nowarninglabel
Hah, yes, the first thing I thought of was the Daemon was asking me to join
in.

~~~
pavel_lishin
No offense to captaincrunch, but I think the Daemon would have a better
graphics design team.

Then again, maybe that's mission #2.

~~~
wmf
I don't think real spies have very good graphic design either. Maybe European
spies at least use Helvetica instead of Courier.

------
runjake
Probably needs to be mentioned here. The guy running this game, HN user
captaincrunch, isn't the "John Draper" captaincrunch most of us are familiar
with.

It's an interesting idea, though. I hope HN captaincrunch keeps us updated on
his successes and challenges.

I played in a game like this back in high school (late 80s). It involved at
least a couple hundred students and had everyone from chess nerds to football
players involved. It was an insane fun time. Couldn't get away with what we
did, these days, though (think paintball "assassination" during social
studies).

~~~
blahblahblah
I remember this "assassination tag" game from the late 80s also. It was played
with squirt guns in my hometown. Everyone drew names. The name you drew was
your target. When you made a "kill", the person who was eliminated gave you
the name they'd drawn and that person was your next target. The game proceeded
until only one person remained.

It turned out to be considerably more dangerous than expected. Entertech
motorized squirt guns were popular at the time. They were made of all black
plastic and looked very much like real automatic submachine pistols from a
distance. Players in the game liked them because they could fire a nearly
continuous stream of water and they had good range. Unfortunately, because
they looked so realistic, misunderstandings occasionally happened and a player
of the game could find themselves staring down the barrel of real policeman's
very real loaded weapon.

~~~
runjake
This is the game. Though all kinds of implements were used, up to and
including paintball guns. Luckily, we never had an run-ins with the police. It
was very, very fun because you didn't know who to suspect. Everyone was
involved, and walking/biking to work was an interesting journey of paranoia.

------
yock
Intriguing, but with no way to gauge what's minimally required to participate
I'm finding it difficult to commit...even if it is cheap. Bear in mind that
I'd say the same thing even if it were free. I don't know what to expect, or
to what I'm potentially exposing my family.

Don't take this as so much a criticism. The lack of specifics certainly adds
to the intrigue, but I think it limits your audience exclusively to young
singles as a result. It would certainly benefit me if you provided a few more
breadcrumbs.

~~~
captaincrunch
Do you have a hobby or a skill set that would benefit an organization like
this? Do you have 30 minutes to spare in a week?

~~~
plurinshael
Does this organization serve the interests of mankind, art, science and
enlightenment generally? Does it serve the interests of some elite power
group? Does it directly or indirectly serve the interests of death and war? I
won't work for anybody; I have to sleep at night. I wouldn't serve communist
China, a known entity, for a million dollars a day. And for damn sure I won't
serve an unknown entity for free.

~~~
reeses
Is the game hackable? I figure it'll be worth $5 to see if I can have someone
execute a mission to "remove nanobot surveillance drones from the surface of
my transport using a mild detergent and slightly pressurized water."

~~~
captaincrunch
Deploying agents in your area now, I wasn't sure your transport was a threat
until now.

------
semanticist
Inspired by 'SPOOKS' from Charlie Stross' 'Halting State'?

~~~
arethuza
The location for the underground office of the game company in "Halting
State":

[http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/BarntonQu...](http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/BarntonQuarry)

[Edit: This bunker is unlikely to be used as office space any time soon as it
is rather badly contaminated with asbestos]

~~~
semanticist
I keep meaning to go and have a look (I'm local, although trapped in Fife
lately). Not that there'd be much to see, really.

~~~
arethuza
The place has a grim fascination for me as somewhere that was obviously a
planned ground-zero for a Soviet nuke - probably a ground burst.

(NB I live between central Edinburgh and Corstorphine Hill).

------
euicho
If this was posted anywhere else I'd assume it was a pyramid scheme chain
letter.

~~~
tsycho
Just because it is posted here, how do you know it's not? The poster might
have been duped himself.

~~~
captaincrunch
The only assurance I can give to you, that this is my creation, and like all
things, you will be risking your $5.00. This may not be for everyone, but if
it does sound interesting, try it.

~~~
tsycho
Alright, based on your previous karma, I am willing to try this out. My $5 is
yours :)

------
Kurtz79
It sounds familiar. I'm sure there was an attempt at a subscription based
"Real Life Spy Game" several years ago (>10 ?) already. You would receive
phone calls from strangers, mysterious emails, have to check website links,
and such.

It wasn't a success as far as I remember, but it was definitely ahead of the
times, and also "single player" only . A massively multiplayer game based on
the same concept has definitely more potential...

~~~
JunkDNA
As mentioned above, there was Majestic, which came out about 10 years ago. It
was sort of an X-Files conspiracy type thing. I played for a while because I
was interested in the tech. You would get calls on any phone you registered,
faxes of documents, emails, etc... there was even an alternate web universe
where you would search for information and they would inject results for their
sites via a plugin in the browser (if I remember the tech correctly). I
stopped playing right around 9/11. For me, it just seemed awfully silly to be
getting emails about fake "threats" when it seemed like there were some real
ones out there.

------
kiwidrew
I'm pretty certain that this was inspired by Neurocam. For a thoroughly
entertaining read -- which raises more questions than it answers -- I
recommend an article from 2004:
[http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/12/17/1102787276356.h...](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/12/17/1102787276356.html)

(neurocam is not a psychology experiment.)

~~~
zapnap
Agree. I thought the exact same thing when I read the article. And then
proceeded to be voted down in the comments for posting about it. It's a
conspiracy! :)

------
JoeBracken
Depending on the missions this may get you on the real "watch list". Right now
taking pictures of rail, buildings, monuments, etc can get you flagged by the
DHS. I'm going to keep my spy activities in the virtual world.

~~~
captaincrunch
All activities are optional, and at the discretion of the agent.

------
elliottcarlson
I had a lot of fun playing "Stop The International" - an ARG developed for the
movie The International. We were sent through a bunch of missions in Central
Park and had to find leads, solve puzzles and then obtain a hidden stash
(which had a CD with content, a bunch of foreign cash and a bunch of papers).
The three of us that attended split the cash, and I still have the two-dollar
bill with a big red sticker saying "This is blood money", as well as the CD of
"classified" documents. I think I might have to join in on this game...

Here is a recap video of our NY mission (with pictures of me included that
were taken by their "spy") :
<http://www.stoptheinternational.com/recapvid.aspx?id=3>

And here is a recap I posted right after our little outing:
[http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27014&...](http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27014&start=100)

And the files from the CD:

[http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-0....](http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-0.mp3)

[http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-1....](http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-1.eml)

[http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-2....](http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-2.jpg)

[http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-3....](http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-3.jpg)

[http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-4....](http://www.trendinteractive.com/stoptheinternational/NYCX-4.jpg)

------
Cyranix
I just might have to hop into this. The last ARG I played was a decade ago,
and few premises since then have excited me as much as this one.

Unlike a few other commenters, I'm not particularly worried about being a
party to real-life crime. It's in keeping with both common sense and the
watch-your-back nature of the spy game to perform a little due diligence on
each mission. Plus there's a reasonable paper trail in the event of something
going wrong (PayPal, HN account, captaincrunch's internal security measures?).

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing some interesting outcomes revolving
around factions and the command chain. Whether trust is intentionally broken
(i.e. by design of the mission coordinator) or whether mistrust arises
spontaneously, there's great potential for each mission to be merely a
pretense for gathering intel on your teammates or superiors... then using that
knowledge to manipulate others to your ends. This may end up testing the
game's operators more than the players in the end!

~~~
pavel_lishin
> Plus there's a reasonable paper trail in the event of something going wrong

How would that help you if you're transporting a suitcase of heroin across the
city?

"No, look, I _paid_ to transport this heroin! I mean, I didn't know it was
heroin! It was all anonymous, to, uh... well... can I have a lawyer?"

~~~
Cyranix
You're suggesting that a criminal would put valuable illegal merchandise in
the hands of a stranger and trust that he'll carry out nefarious schemes for a
reward valued less than a Foursquare badge? Interesting.

The paper trail doesn't help after the fact, naturally -- it's merely a
passable indicator that I'm not secretly signing my life to the Mafia up
front.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Well, I guess it depends on what you're transporting. Criminals would probably
not use this to transport anything of value - the risk of loss is too great.
But if instead of heroin, the box contained explosives wired to an alarm clock
- the value of the container is now much cheaper.

------
jeromec
I had this idea several years ago. What stopped me going forward was a feeling
I couldn't make the game spy-like enough to be as fun as I'd like. There are
practical limitations to the real world vs. virtual world as some comments
already point out -- potential legality/abuse issues etc. Although I thought I
could push some of those bounds as much as possible I still couldn't envision
how to keep gameplay new and interesting.

I'm glad to see this concept going forward! I would be in, except I don't know
how interesting it could be considering the practical limitations as I saw
them. From your description I imagine something like: Agent A hides Object
along a Mountain Trail where Agent B must find and recover it. That does sound
like it could be a fun activity to get fresh air and exercise, but would get
old pretty quick in terms of fun factor for a real spy-like experience. I'm
pretty sure there would be more in store for the game than that, but how much
more is the question...

------
curiousepic
How much of the fun of this game is dependent on geographical location? Would
it be worth playing at all in small towns/cities? Similarly, how would having
friends you see every day playing affect it?

~~~
captaincrunch
I've had several groups of people sign-up that wanted to be grouped, on the
same token, I've had just as many sign-up to play against each other.

The game has several aspects to it, some which incorporate short distance
interactions, and some interactions that happen over several weeks, exchanging
hands several times (due to longer distances).

------
PakG1
Interesting, for $5 I'm in. Why not? Even if this is dare I say malicious, I'm
not worried too much. Is this going to be coordinated through email, snail
mail, or what? I just realized that the shipping address on my PayPal
information was not updated to my current address, as I had just moved
recently. That old address no longer holds my being. :)

~~~
captaincrunch
First contact is through mail, send your updated address to
mikecurry74@gmail.com, I'll update it.

------
davidjhall
This reminds me of Electronic Arts Majestic game --
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_(video_game)> \-- an alternate reality
game. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_reality_game>

~~~
elliottcarlson
Sadly Majestic just wasn't run well and in the end was a complete failure. If
you want to see tons of Alternate Reality Games currently in action or just
starting check out <http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/>

The big problem with ARGs are that most of them die out, sometimes without a
good resolution - you always hope the next one will be better than the last.

------
teilo
The season 2 finale of Castle used an idea similar to this, only with an
excursion-style agency where people were given elaborate missions, equipment,
etc., for a hefty fee.

------
danielamitay
Will 1000 players be enough? I feel like you'll hit the limit by this time
next week -- if not tomorrow (I signed up).

I understand that 1000 players will be a lot for you to handle, but that being
said, if this thing seriously catches on, you'd be completely justified in
charging $1 per month recurring, and I would definitely pay it for the
increased density of spies in my area.

~~~
captaincrunch
Removed the limit, as you're right - it will be more fun, with increased
density of spies. I'll come up with a way to handle the load :D

~~~
semanticist
Automation can help with routine things, and in areas where you have high
density you can effectively have spies create missions for other spies: one
person's mission is to take a picture and deliver it with a note for the next
person, the note tells them their next mission, and so on.

For added fun, check things like Twilio and their telephony APIs. Phone calls
and text messages can add a layer of realism.

~~~
captaincrunch
I have an asterisk system up, with several numbers via Vitelity. It could get
interesting... ;)

~~~
semanticist
The holy grail, as seen in Halting State, is to procedurally generate all the
missions, so you get something like:

SMS text to player 1: Go to place X at midday, write code 12345 on the ground
in chalk.

SMS text to player 2: Go to place X at midday + 10 minutes, reply by SMS with
the code you find.

If you have sufficient density of spies, arranging that kind of interaction
should be fairly easy. On the other hand, everyone that doesn't live in a
large city with an active population in the game is going to have a more
abstract experience - no finding secret messages other people have left!

~~~
pavel_lishin
One way to get around that is to find live online webcams - traffic cams, for
instance, with a good enough resolution - and get the spies to leave something
visible in front of them. Player 2 then just has to locate the area on the
web, and view it through the cam.

------
nostromo
PayPal will freeze their account in 5... 4... 3...

~~~
captaincrunch
mission #1: assess and secure paypal funds.

------
charlief
There are a bunch of things you can do for $5: <http://www.fiverr.com/>

HN is a good place for finding enthusiasts. I am definitely intrigued, but
I'll have to pass unless I can bound some sort of output value. This is
especially problematic as it is a spy game, and by nature, secretive so you'll
need an even bigger effort to sell. To gauge any sort of confidence, I work
with whatever information I have:

1\. Service's description

2\. captaincrunch's karma, previous posts and his blog

3\. Post address (maybe even street view if I want to be presumptuous)

EDIT: I noticed the post address was removed from the description.

Just in terms of opportunity cost, there is too much uncertainty to commit and
I'll let my $5 accrue some interest or buy something else.

~~~
DanI-S
'Cause nobody ever sold nothing based on mystery and exclusivity...

~~~
charlief
No one ever sold anything to me (and maybe others) with mystery and
exclusivity _alone_ without any word-of-mouth or any feedback/context. The
value in exclusivity comes from associated prestige. The value in mystery
comes from curiosity or expectations of the potential of the service. Prestige
or exclusivity isn't the point of the service (it is probably done for
thematic reasons), so I don't care about that, but I'd like more expectations
of what the mystery entails. I do not think this is too unreasonable.

------
eftpotrm
To go even more Hollywood, some friends and I sat around the student dining
table many years back and brainstormed ways of doing a laser gallery shooting
game (I don't know what they're called internationally - for UK brand names
think Quasar or Laserquest) that could be worn discreetly in public so you
could play around your local town centre, shopping mall, garage, wherever you
happened to be. And probably get hassled by security for running through
crowds and making anything like shooting gestures, but it'd be fun :-)

------
maayank
Is it worth the money for non-north-american players? (i.e. Israel)

~~~
captaincrunch
Yes, this is a global game, and I have had several sign-ups from Israel today.

------
instakill
This looks like fun. Sucks that you have to have a Paypal account. What about
international players - do they get mail delivery also?

~~~
captaincrunch
Paypal is preferred, but not necessary, there is an address where you can send
a $5.00 check/money order on the website.

Also: If there is a postal outlet in your area, the game exists.

~~~
instakill
Converting South African Rand into (5) US dollars and sending it to an
American postal account (hoping it doesn't get stolen in the process) is
unfortunately not worth the while.

~~~
captaincrunch
Perhaps you could suggest a payment method, and we could implement it. We've
had a good amount of people sign-up from SA today.

~~~
pavel_lishin
Maybe you'd be willing to accept the foreign currency, and exchange it on your
end?

Or, hell. $5 isn't that much - you could actually incorporate the physical
foreign currency into the game.

~~~
captaincrunch
You can send a check in your own currency, I can exchange it here.

------
philbarr
By the way, it's "involved" not "envolved".

------
freakwit
I wonder what the best webpage idea is to get people to send me $5 for nothing
or very little in return.

------
imrehg
Obligatory XKCD: <http://www.xkcd.com/842/>

------
smbwrs
I had this idea - rather, an idea for something very similar to this - right
after the first iPhone came out a few years ago. Never did anything with it.
Should have. Let this be your daily reminder to execute on your good ideas!

Also, I'm totally in.

------
kilian
I'm willing to take the bet for 5 bucks. Signed up, let the gaming begin! :)

------
cycnusx
I really like this idea, sounds like it could be a lot of fun. $5 is yours.

------
jdavid
reminds me of one of the plot points in Charles Stross's "Halting State"

------
dclaysmith
Reminds me of Gotcha!

<http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089222/>

------
Stonewall9093
IIW (International Intelligence Agency)....? Bad start, BIG turn off.

------
stonedlogic
Have any other australians signed up for this yet??

~~~
captaincrunch
I am seeing about 50 people in Australia in the DB now.

~~~
stonedlogic
excellent..I'll get some ppls together and we'll be in, looks hoopsnakin dude
:)

~~~
captaincrunch
Looking forward!

------
joshu
a reasonable margin + font would go a long way towards getting me to actually
read the page.

~~~
captaincrunch
I added the margin, just couldn't change the font.. ;)

------
nomad_man
5$ for an experiment. Paying up :)

------
stagas
It says IIW at the top, not IIA.

------
zapnap
neuro___...

