
Why do people buy MacBook Pro retinas, given their relatively high price? - Artemis2
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-buy-MacBook-Pro-retinas-given-their-relatively-high-price?share=1
======
da_n
I'm not an Apple hater, I use a MacBook Pro at work (funnily enough, either
SSH remote linux server or running Linux VM through vagrant), for my personal
machines I run 100% Linux. It is solid hardware, but I think the OS is
becoming a hindrance to me as a developer. It seems like every iteration
closes yet another door on the underlying UNIX base, making it harder and
harder to get things working, Homebrew helps but seems like it needs more and
more workarounds and often breaks with esoteric conflicts. Nowadays I just use
OS X as a VM shell, so I might as well be using Windows. I don't use any Apple
"apps", I never touch their cloud because of all the horror stories I've
heard, and I fear in a couple of releases the OS is just going to be
completely locked down so I'll have to move to Windows at work to get work
done. The hardware is definitely the best in class, but the software is
becoming unusable to me as a developer. I hope it means more linux usage but
I'm not delusional and know that desktop linux is basically just a niche and
probably always will be (which saddens me greatly). I think it's a shame Apple
has taken this direction.

~~~
Nullabillity
The hardware is "best-in-class"? I keep hearing this, but the specs and
personal experiences just don't match up with it. Their devices are, and have
always been, way underspecced, and they pull stupid crap like abusing the case
as a heatsink (because they're too cheap for fans?), soldering in RAM and
gluing in batteries (seriously, WTF?), and using proprietary connectors for
everything.

Their software is a trainwreck, their hardware is even worse. Why on earth do
people give this company money?

~~~
digi_owl
Because Jobs hated the sound of spinning fans supposedly.

The macbooks are not the first in that regard.

Various Apple products over the years have had problems with overheating
because of this.

Supposedly one variant of the AppleII has a service recommendation of lifting
and dropping it on to the desk. This because the lack of fans would make the
logicboard buckle from heat, unseating some chips.

I do believe a certain Cube was also fanless, and had trouble keeping itself
cool. Never mind that it had a power switch that would be flipped by a stray
piece of paper...

~~~
jkmcf
If I have to agree with Jobs on anything, I'll start w/ the noise of spinning
fans.

~~~
digi_owl
I find them a necessary evil.

This because you only get so much cooling passively, and you only get so much
computing done pr unit heat (something that even mobile phones are
discovering).

End result, you can only compute so much on a passively cooled system.

------
tluyben2
My story about this;

I made the mistake (in my personal opinion), based on the advise of a friend,
to buy one recently. Insanely expensive and I really don't like it as much as
the much cheaper Air; it has worse battery life (I had Apple check it twice
and there is nothing wrong, just 'my usage pattern'; I use the same software
on the Air and on my old X220 and get better battery life on both; on the X220
_far_ better), the screen has staingate[0] which my local Apple store said
they wouldn't replace for free (going to try different ones now). And it feels
slower; it's objectively (tests) faster, but for my subjective performance
perception it's slower. It often pops the beachball which I never see on the
Air and it runs hot doing nothing but web browsing. Again, Apple checked it
twice.

[0] [http://www.staingate.org/](http://www.staingate.org/)

~~~
givinguflac
Just my 2c, my experience has been the exact opposite in regards to subjective
performance. You may want to try a fresh install and reformat, sounds like
something is off. My coworker and I were issued the same model Mac, and he had
issues and I don't. Reinstalled his OS and things are great for him now. But,
to each their own; certainly not trying to say your opinion is invalid.

~~~
tluyben2
I have tried... And my Apple store tried as well. For my usage pattern there
is no rescue apparently :) I'm not that mift about it anyway; I use it for
compiling + testing iOS apps and compiling + testing cross platform apps. And
for everything else I use my X220. I would never recommend the MBP, I would
recommend the Air any day. But I would give it this context; I know some
people who love their MBPs. Especially designers.

------
coldtea
Why do people buy anything on the high end of the market given its relative
high price?

Price is not the only criterion. In fact for socially aware people it might
even be a positive -- signaling you do well to others etc. This is not just a
shallow thing for personal showing-off: in its general application (ie. not
just in laptops), how you look and what you use can have quite an impact on
your opportunities and connections.

But it's not like competitive products with smaller prices are just as good in
every aspect either.

What actually happens is more like this:

Some cheaper competitive products are as good or even better as MBPr for the
basics of computing (raw CPU/GPU), and some people think "computer" and
automatically assume that CPU/GPU is all that matters (whereas most people,
gamers aside, totally underutilize them).

But they fail to see where those cheaper products fail for someone who can pay
for something pricier. E.g. in ergonomics (e.g. the mag-safe power adaptor,
multi-touch trackpad, magnetic hinge, illuminated keyboard, etc), and some of
the most important factors for laptops you carry frequently: construction
(sturdiness), weight, thickness and battery life. Being able to run OS X (and
Windows/Linux), and the nicer industrial aesthetics and lack of BS (intel
inside stickers, OEM crapware, etc) don't hurt either. And MBPr's monitors
frequently review as the best of the competition too (plus, they were the
first to introduce hi-dpi screens, at least mass market).

Besides, when you get to the higher end Dells, Sonys etc, and add all the
features and trimmings to match 1-1 those MBPr (including the "details"
mentioned above), you end up with similar, or even higher in some cases,
prices.

So it's down to what you value.

For raw CPU/GPU you can build something cheaper.

For variety/freedom/reuse (build-your-own-with-whatever-parts-you-like too).

But for ergonomics and laptopy-concerns, those Apple laptops are pretty much
where it's at, and if you find something comparable (high end Dell, Sony,
whatever) it will have a comparable price.

~~~
Nullabillity
> Some cheaper competitive products are as good or even better as MBPr for the
> basics of computing (raw CPU/GPU), and some people think "computer" and
> automatically assume that CPU/GPU is all that matters (whereas most people,
> gamers aside, totally underutilize them).

So what is it you're paying so much extra for then?

> mag-safe power adaptor

Can't say this has ever been an issue for me, and even they seem to be killing
this off.

> multi-touch trackpad

Standard feature on any recent laptop.

> magnetic hinge

Huh?

> illuminated keyboard

Quickly becoming a standard feature, but if this is important to you then you
probably shouldn't be spending that much on a laptop anyway.

> construction (sturdiness)

LOL.

> weight, thickness and battery life

Not an issue in the real world.

~~~
coldtea
> _So what is it you 're paying so much extra for then?_

All those other things. I'm not using my CPU at anywhere near 100% 24/7 to
care about its speed that much. But I do use the keyboard, trackpad, carry the
weight, etc, every single day.

> _Can 't say this has ever been an issue for me_

Well, good for you. Yanking the cable has been an issue for me, and several
million others besides.

> _Standard feature on any recent laptop._

Yes, but with a crappy implementation. There's really no comparison.

> magnetic hinge

Magnetic close "lock" mechanism for the display, as opposed to some protruding
hinge.

> _Quickly becoming a standard feature_

Yeah, everything is "Quickly becoming a standard feature". But I've had it,
and other things, for a decade or so on my Macbook Pros...

> _LOL._

Yeah, because sturdiness is not a thing to ask from your laptop.

> _Not an issue in the real world._

Perhaps weight, thickness and battery life are not issues in the real world
that _you_ live in.

Oh, and premium quality HW. E.g. check the first response in TFA.

~~~
Nullabillity
> Yes, but with a crappy implementation. There's really no comparison.

Very subjective. Apple's setup UI and default settings both leave a hell of a
lot to be desired.

> Magnetic close "lock" mechanism for the display, as opposed to some
> protruding hinge.

Oh, that. Standard feature...?

> Yeah, everything is "Quickly becoming a standard feature". But I've had it,
> and other things, for a decade or so on my Macbook Pros...

This is 2016, not 2006.

> Yeah, because sturdiness is not a thing to ask from your laptop.

No, but the a MBP is not the thing to ask for sturdiness in.

> Perhaps weight, thickness and battery life are not issues in the real world
> that you live in.

The weight and thickness differences aren't significant. The battery life
difference can be, but is rarely an issue. Road trips, I guess...?

> Oh, and premium quality HW. E.g. check the first response in TFA.

Yay, circular reasoning...?

------
petercooper
Because it runs the software I need to use on the only operating system that
seems to run it and it does so with the fewest problems of any hardware I've
tried. The price is almost line noise compared to the value produced using the
equipment for me. (It's like wondering why use a $50 chisel when you can get
one for $1.. if you're doing a lot of work with the chisel, just get the $50
one.)

~~~
e40
At work we have a bunch of Windows and Mac laptops. The Windows laptops are
constantly needing something. Either hardware repair or having software issues
of various types (for some reason, often the wifi drivers). The Macs... never
once have we had a problem with any of them.

For me, I just got fed up with Windows and Windows laptops. The bloat. Windows
itself (I dropped off at Windows 8, I just hated it). I had used every Windows
version since 3.1. Both at home and work I use Linux for all my server needs,
but for my home base, macOS is fine. I never upgrade it until it hits 10.x.4,
and by that point, it's rock solid. I use a product called FastX for
reconnectable SSH sessions to my home and work Linux machines, where I do
everything in GNU Emacs, even email. I've been using nmh + MH-E + some
filtering software I wrote myself. I've accumulated 30+ years of Emacs tweaks
and that environment is as about as productive as I can make it, for what I
do.

My son recently wanted to play Windows games (Steam) on his Mac, so we
installed Windows 10 via bootcamp. I was impressed with how easy it was to
install and how fast Windows was on his new 2016 Macbook.

Compared to all the Windows laptops out there, I think Macbooks are an
incredible deal.

------
Amorymeltzer
Some people buy new cars, some only buy used. Some people think a night out at
the movies is absurd given their relatively high price, yet pay for a paper
newspaper rather than just an online subscription which others might not.
While I generally agree with the Quora answer, the answer to "Why do people
buy X given X is expensive?" is generally "Because it's worth it to them" or
"They have to."

~~~
cm3
Isn't the real question "why do people buy it, regardless of the price, even
though the hardware and software stack isn't capable of providing a fluid
experience at that resolution?"? I haven't used a Retina macbook, but I find
it hard to believe Apple would sell a macbook that isn't responsive in typical
use cases.

~~~
givinguflac
The only retina Mac I've seen with occasional responsiveness issues was the
very first generation, which got much better with updates.

------
b3b0p
For me it's mostly because of build quality (keyboard, casing, screen, feel,
...) and a functional pointing device.

No other laptop I have used has a useable trackpad and most have a keyboard
that is unusable. The only other laptop I have ever used with a pointing
device I liked was the Thinkpad nub.

Also, everything seems to "just work" when compared to using a Linux.
Sleep/hibernate, syncing with my iPhone and iPad. It's nice not worrying or
having to tweak this only to never be satisfied with the end results. I
remember spending hours and days trying to get things working sometimes. I
expect some would argue the everything "just works" statement, but for me I
have not had any problems of note.

I have not tried a Thinkpad + Linux in years or the Dell alternatives I have
seen. I'm really eyeing a Thinkpad 460p and want to put Fedora on it and give
it another try.

------
hereonbusiness
If you use something to earn money price doesn't really matter that much imo,
especially if you earn multiples of the price per month. I wouldn't really
recommend spending MBpro money for just casual usage.

When I bought mine after some consideration last year it was the only laptop
with a 16:10 screen, IPS panel, better than 1080p resolution, 16GB of ram,
faster than SATA SSD, good battery life, light, decent keyboard, just all
around a great device, the only missing option I would have liked hardware
wise is a matte panel instead of glossy.

Alternatives I considered at the time were the Dell XPS 13 Dev and Lenovo
450s/440s which both were 16:9 and with less than 16GB of ram. I think there
are still no other comparable options that come with a 16:10 screen out there
even today.

OSX is not my OS of choice (it's still a lot better than having to run
Windows) but battery life and scaling is worse on Linux, also if you do your
development using Vagrant and Docker the OS is not much of an issue.

------
mnkmnk
Why doesn't anyone sell good hardware other than apple?

~~~
digi_owl
They do, but rarely via consumer channels.

The internals of macbook pros can be found in B2B offerings from HP, Dell,
Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, etc etc etc...

~~~
zlynx
Dell m3800 for example...

------
riprowan
What notebook computer is as durable and has as good a keyboard / touchpad /
display?

The keyboard and touchpad in particular is why I can't leave. It's ergonomic.

------
scriptproof
"Do you remember how much the Microsoft Visual Studio used to cost? I don't
even know how much it costs today (the free version of the MS compilers come
without the IDE)". Actually VS Community is free with the IDE. This post is
outdated.

~~~
elmigranto
I think you missed "used to cost" part.

------
emmet
Wow that's a really solid answer, and I have to agree with it 100%. Also never
knew about the motion sensor. Would explain how it survives just about
anything. Nice find!

~~~
elmigranto
> Also never knew about the motion sensor.

That's a nice thing about Apple, you find interesting awesome stuff that
increases subjective value of a product for a customer.

iPhone 6 being water-proof was not in the ads. Was really cool to find out
mine survived being in the sea for couple of minutes when I forgot to put it
out of the pocket. (Don't risk it though, there are plenty of youtube videos
if you want to see it for yourself :)

~~~
Nullabillity
> That's a nice thing about Apple, you find interesting awesome stuff that
> increases subjective value of a product for a customer.

The motion sensor has been a standard feature in all laptops for over a
decade. It'd be like advertising that it has a flat screen.

------
mtw
They buy the best components, yet I still have to buy a charger every six
months and it's my 3rd bluetooth keyboard that dies on me. Same for the iPhone
headset.

~~~
spdustin
iPhone headset ... Is the cable breaking down, or is it (sorry, have to ask)
earwax impeding the sound? The EarPods in particular seem to get a coating on
their protective mesh that needs to be removed.

~~~
emmet
Such an awkward question to ask but I've saved more than a few friends from
throwing out earphones because of it. You'd never even know it was there
unless you knew to lift out the mesh.

------
digi_owl
Because most other hardware of similar grade is sold via B2B channels.

