

Steve Jobs: Not a very nice person to know - asto
http://www.livemint.com/2011/10/21004530/Not-a-very-nice-man-to-know.html

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grkhetan
(i made this comment on that web page, but hasn't been approved in the last 3
hours, so copying here as well)

I think some of your stories are not very accurate, they are twisted to be
more negative than they were.

In any case, one thing you should definitely do is remove Richard Stallman's
statement -- since perhaps you don't know him -- he thinks the whole IT
product industry is satanish -- nobody should ever sell any product as per
him. He does not use any software which is sold and lives like a hermit in the
world of tech, with so fanatic ideals that he is completely incompatible with
today's world.

Secondly, labor conditions at FoxConn factories are often pointed out as
Apple's crimes -- but it is foolish to do so. Foxconn is the largest
electronics manufacturer in the world, and a LOT of top tech brands in the
world outsource their manufacturing to them. Apple makes them most money
though -- I am not sure how Foxconn conditions are caused by Apple.

Thirdly, about charity, he donated privately. And he had a RED product
campaign for iPods which donated a large amount of money to Africa for AIDS.
And he has left his wealth of 7 billion here, his wife spent a lot of time
doing charity, I am sure she will use almost all of it in charity...

Fourthly, backdating options was a common practice followed at a lot of
companies -- this has nothing to do with Steve Jobs -- in fact he was found to
be innocent in this (he knew about it, but he likely thought of it as an
accounting issue: he was no accounting expert -- its not like he requested for
this to be done).

Regarding Amelio -- really? Can you point to any authentic source for
reference? I am not sure he made Apple a 3 billion stock pile when Apple had a
multi-billion dollar loss the year before Steve Jobs joined. And you are
trying to make it sound like Steve Jobs was a hitler who kicked off Amelio who
should have been the CEO of Apple. Are you nuts?

One more -- you mention Apple "stole" the developers from C&G, a MP3 software
firm. Please can you describe more what you meant -- I never knew one could
"steal" developers.... Apple had hired 4 of their key employees --- by making
them an offer which they could have declined obviously but they didn't,
because they wanted to join Apple -- i am not sure how this means anything.
Lot of things like this happen in the industry, for example, Juniper
frequently hires a bunch of developers from Cisco's team for a product, when
they want to start a new similar product.

Overall - I obviously agree Steve was not a "polite" person -- he used to talk
harshly and make aggressive moves business wise. But he did all of it for
passion of making something that will change the market upside down. And he
did that, multiple times. With innovative ideas. Who could have started a
retail store chain in 2001 for an electronics company? And made it successful
today when all retail is failing...

All his achievements are known to everybody. He was a person that had failings
like everybody else, but he pursued his passion with such a vigor, that he
made a massive impact on everything he did. He moved industries forward, with
a sudden, immense push, multiple times.

~~~
jerrya
"Apple makes them most money though -- I am not sure how Foxconn conditions
are caused by Apple."

Nike was very heavily criticized for the working/living conditions of workers
at the factories that made Nike shoes.

For quite sometime, Nike hid behind the claim that they were not shoe
manufacturers, but a sports product design and marketing company, and that the
actual conditions of the workers were not Nike's business.

What you are telling me "Apple makes them most money though " is that Apple
has a great deal of leverage with FoxConn, and that Apple can use that
leverage as Nike did to dramatically improve and police the conditions of the
FoxConn employees.

And if Steve Jobs had, or Tim Cook would, tell their users that in the future
prices would take a $10 jump per player to ensure they were manufactured in
better conditions, my guess is that it would affect sales in much the same way
that Nike's sales were affected (which is to say, increase.)

~~~
grkhetan
Apple actually did a lot to better the labor conditions at the plants. They
routinely publish a report about it as well.

What I wanted to say is that Foxconn makes products for a large number of
companies : Acer, Amazon, Intel, Cisco, HP, Dell, Nintendo, Nokia, Microsoft,
Motorola, Sony Ericsson, Vizio, and others, apart from Apple. I am sure their
products are also manufactured in the same labor conditions. Why is Apple
being blamed and not any of the other companies? In fact, since Apple's name
has been publicized, they have done much more to improve the conditions there,
I am not sure whether these other clients did even a little bit.

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jerrya
If Apple makes FoxConn the most money, then Apple can take the lead that no
other company can.

That you are not aware of criticism of other companies does not mean it does
not exist. Just as Nike took point with criticism of its sweatshops but many
companies also suffered that criticism.

But Apple from it's 1984 commercial, it's commercial celebrating Gandhi, all
of its associations with musicians, the entire Apple brand stands for a
humanism that is belied in its production methods.

They can do more.

Not only do they then deserve the criticism, they are precisely the most
effective company to pressure due to their leverage with FoxConn giving them
power, and their overall brand message giving critics power over Apple.

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MattLaroche
The book The No Asshole Rule talks extensively about Steve, IIRC labeling him
a certified asshole and discussing his management style. The conclusion I drew
was Steve succeeded in part because he was more often charismatic but people
were afraid of disappointing Steve and facing the asshole persona.

Heck, in a way I'm sure it was great working with him - I bet you always knew
where you stood.

~~~
asto
It's one thing to be brutally honest with people and quite another to disown
your own child, deride subordinates for silly things, destroy people's public
reputation and park in multiple spots meant for handicapped people!

People who are honest and disregard the consequences of absolute honesty are
an asset in a world filled with people who would lie to keep social ties
intact. Assholes on the other hand, not so much.

~~~
grkhetan
If you think nobody liked Steve, do you think he would have remained the CEO
of Apple? Was he a dictator who couldn't be ousted? He was the best leader for
Apple, period. Secondly, if your boss scolds you, sometimes unnecessarily so,
but he makes you millions of dollars by leading the company to a 130X increase
in stock price, would you mind?? Thirdly, employees in the company love him. I
happen to work at Apple right now, and the love I have seen in the employees
for Steve, cannot be paralleled for any other leader at any other company.
People didn't like his aggressiveness and his abrasiveness, but still loved
him and his dedication and leadership, and that he single-handedly led Apple
to great success. Genius is idiosyncratic.

~~~
jmathai
You can be an asshole and still have people love you. How do you think
dictators typically operate?

No clue about Steve as I never met the dude. But you're implying that just
because he is able to turn a hefty profit and that people liked him means is
proof he wasn't an asshole.

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rhizome
It's more complicated than whether someone "is an asshole" or not.

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jerrya
Ugh! This page has auto-playing audio, and the audio controls are way down at
the bottom of the page.

@asto, I think you should have remarked on this in the title to this link. And
I wish people would not post links with auto-playing audio or video.

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Natsu
It's possible that the original poster didn't realize it was there. I, for
one, had no idea there was any kind of audio on that page, because any such
thing is automatically blocked.

~~~
jerrya
You might be right. What a horrible website -- I have no idea who the audience
they are targeting is that appreciates autoplay audio.

