
A "Hacker's" Guide to the Bay Area - presty
http://islandofatlas.net/2013/10/04/a-hackers-guide-to-the-bay-area.html
======
dmethvin
> One of the biggest shocks I faced when I arrived to the Valley was finding
> out that it was a very suburban environment. Mountain View, Palo Alto,
> Sunnyvale are completely suburban.

I suppose it depends on your definition of "suburban". Each one of those
cities has a bona-fide city center and nearby residential development dense
enough to allow a very walkable environment. It's a lot worse in many places
back east including my area.

[http://www.walkscore.com/CA/Mountain_View](http://www.walkscore.com/CA/Mountain_View)

[http://www.walkscore.com/MD/Columbia/21045](http://www.walkscore.com/MD/Columbia/21045)

~~~
jarek
Where is the Sunnyvale city centre?

~~~
nsm
Murphy ave. near the Caltrain station.

~~~
jarek
That's, what, 2 blocks of urban form surrounded by big box retail and parking
lots? Very suburban sounds about right.

------
gue5t
I am, without any sarcasm, very glad to see the scare quotes around the word
"hacker" here. I'm thankful that there's a dawning collective agreement that
the term as used in this community ("someone who makes websites or software,
generally as a career") has completely devalued its original meaning, which is
not without merit, and which is very hard to bind to another term at this
point.

~~~
dinkumthinkum
I'm not sure if the author means what you think. I think the quoting is about
... not presumptuously putting one's self in that group, more like modesty.

Although I am sympathetic what you're saying ... but we are on HN ... Hackers
and Painters and all.

------
timr
There are lots of other gyms in the city besides the wretched, filthy 24-hour-
fitness syndicate: Club One (slightly more expensive, but better), Crunch
Fitness (ditto), World Gym (caters toward meatheads), Fitness SF (formerly
Gold's; tends toward gay/female clientele), Sports Club LA (super expensive;
incredibly nice), Equinox (also super deluxe/expensive), Bay Club (ditto),
Mission Cliffs and Planite Granite (climbing/hippies/hipsters), Planet Fitness
(almost as cheap as 24hr; fewer locations but much cleaner), and the YMCA
(moderately cheap, clean, functional). There are tons of smaller gyms, as
well...mostly expensive crossfit and personal training outfits, but some
boutique all-purpose gyms, too.

If you're looking for a gym, do yourself a favor and _don 't_ just sign up for
a 24-hour fitness membership without looking around. You can do a lot better
for not much more money. About the only thing you can say in favor of 24h is
that they're cheap and open late.

If you can afford ~$60 a month, you have a lot of options, particularly if you
negotiate. The YMCA is a good option in this range, and they don't jerk you
around with contracts and high-pressure sales.

~~~
akurilin
Any of them properly equipped for strength training? Went ot at least a couple
in the area where they didn't want people to use chalk and the floors were not
meant to hold anything heavy, so they'd forbid you to deadlift.

~~~
timr
World Gym caters to the powerlifter set that I think you're seeking -- they
provide chalk (iirc) and have multiple squat cages and a deadlift mat and use
olympic barbells.

But then...I have yet to go to a gym in San Francisco that didn't have at
least one squat rack and space for deadlifts. I don't know where you were
going that wasn't properly equipped for strength training.

~~~
jaredsohn
Planet Fitness is known to discourage powerlifters and to focus on a more
casual crowd.

~~~
akurilin
Let's be honest, that's where the money is. Casual gym goers who will come in
twice a week for 30 minutes (and then possibly stop coming, but keep paying)
on a Nautilus, followed right away by a nice glass of Jamba Juice. Gym goers
who will pay exorbitant amounts of cash for personal training to "strengthen
their core".

Some dude who has a high chance of getting himself hurt and who might bust
your floors is probably not even worth considering for membership in the big
scheme of things. Too much of a hassle.

------
Decade
Haha, not bothering to explain the wired Internet situation. Short version:
You probably should get Sonic.net.

The dominant companies are AT&T and Comcast. I hate them both, but I hate AT&T
more, because of their poor customer service and slow speeds and high prices
and defective software. In much of Europe, 6Mbps is not considered broadband.
In the San Francisco Bay Area, 6Mbps is the standard.

If you're stuck in an area with AT&T, and you're unable or unwilling to deal
with Comcast, then you should use Sonic.net. They use AT&T phone lines, but
their business model is based on Free.fr. I'm hoping that the more customers
they get, the quicker they can get around to installing fiber in my
neighborhood, like they said they would 2 years ago.

And then there are various other, small Internet providers. In select
neighborhoods of San Francisco, you can get Monkeybrains fixed wireless. In
select apartment buildings, you can get Webpass fiber to the premises. If you
want cable without Comcast for some reason, there's Astound.

That's about it for San Francisco, unless you're a business spending loads of
money. Also, one neighborhood each of Palo Alto and Sebastopol have test runs
of fiber from Google and Sonic.net, respectively. I don't know what else is
available in the rest of the bay area.

~~~
pshin45
Moved to San Francisco two weeks ago (Mission District), decided to go with
Sonic.net and have been very satisfied thus far.

Getting 16 down 1 up for $40/month, great customer service (always with a
human being) and no long fixed-term contracts (you can cancel at any time at
no extra cost).

Whether it's Sonic.net or Moneybrain or Webpass, I'm just glad there's a lot
of great alternatives to the big (evil) players.

------
nilkn
$700 seems way, way too low as a starting point for rent in downtown San
Francisco or Palo Alto. Double that and you might get a crappy studio--maybe.

~~~
xyzzyz
The author wrote clearly that $700 is for a room, not for a whole apartment.

~~~
nilkn
Still too low in general.

~~~
presty
Yes, I meant a room, _starting_ at $700. It is definitely not that hard to
find. But ofc it won't come with all the luxuries that one might want.

------
samatman
The San Francisco Bay Area is named after our largest bay, the San Francisco
Bay.

Which was named after St. Francis in 1769. Later, there was the Mission, San
Francisco, in 1776; later still, the village of Yerba Buena took on the name
San Francisco.

Welcome aboard!

------
lnanek2
As long as we're talking about being cheap and transportation, there's a
pretty quick bus completing the loop from the end of the BART to the south in
the East Bay to San Jose and Caltrain. As someone who rents in deep East Bay,
Walnut Creek, it's often faster to go along the bay like this to get to
Ebay/Paypal/whatever than BARTing into the city and taking the Caltrain down.
OAK airport is very nice as well, with SFO constantly closing runways due to
weather.

~~~
wavesounds
I heard they wanted to extend the bart from the east bay down to SV but SV
blocked it too keep out the riff raff, anyone know if theres truth to this or
not?

I've always thought it was interesting how physical barriers like water,
hills, bridges and trains play such a big role in separating different types
of people in the bay area.

~~~
jarek
The riffraff story is actually about the peninsula extensions. BART was
originally intended/hoped to include service roughly parallel to
101/280/SP/Caltrain at least through to Palo Alto, but Santa Clara and San
Mateo counties opted out. This is why there is less BART on the peninsula (it
only started operating south of Daly City in 1996) and why it took forever for
SFO to be connected (2003).

Construction is currently happening to bring BART from East Bay to outer San
Jose (Berryessa, scheduled for around 2016). There are unfunded plans/hopes
for an extension of that through central San Jose and Santa Clara.

~~~
ilyanep
I would love to have the BART go all the way around the Bay. It's just so much
faster / more trains / more convenient than the Caltrain in my experience
(although both are pretty good as far as US public transit goes).

~~~
jarek
Well, they aren't really intended for the same type of service. BART is rather
unusual by combining what is in some places almost commuter-rail station
spacing with full grade separation ($$$), but it's still best when running
more high-demand, high-frequency service. I wouldn't expect local SJ-SF BART
service to be a lot faster than local Caltrain - faster acceleration would
help a bit, but at that stop spacing it's not a huge factor.

In the long term there would definitely be utility for round-the-bay BART
service, but right now Caltrain provides way better nortbound service than San
Jose-East Bay connections, so that extension does make more sense for having
more priority. With any luck, Caltrain electrification driven by the HSR
project might happen before Santa Clara gets around to funding BART to
Mountain View, further reducing the need.

~~~
ilyanep
Would electrifying Caltrain make it run faster? I'm not very well-versed in
trains.

The other issues with Caltrain that I have include: The last Northbound train
on Sundays being at 9pm and the last Northbound train on other days being
around 11pm. Also, the fact that there are regions of time when they go every
hour. Unfortunately, I doubt electrifying the train will really affect either
of those.

~~~
jarek
It would make it a little faster since electric trains can accelerate out of
stations a little faster. It's not a major difference at Caltrain's station
spacing though.

The other issues you mention have little to do with diesel/electric
Caltrain/BART differences. Caltrain could easily run late trains if its
funding allowed, and in fact might be able to run later than BART, which
begins shutting down at midnight to do maintenance on its raised and tunnelled
track. Mid-day and weekend frequency is again a function of funding/chosen
service level - more is clearly possible since there's 5 trains an hour during
weekday rush hours.

One difference that might arise from electrification is support for electric
multiple unit rolling stock. This is a setup where rather than being
pulled/pushed by one big locomotive, each passenger car has smaller motors and
propels itself. (BART cars are like this, but this can also be done with more
commuter-level service.) This way the costs for three shorter trains an hour
vs one long train an hour are closer than in diesel, which has the big fixed
cost of the heavy locomotive, and it becomes more feasible to operate same
capacity but more frequent service during times of less demand.

But again, this is also possible with diesel (diesel multiple unit) and has
more to do with type of service Caltrain chooses/is asked to operate rather
than electrification or dedicated right of way.

The real difference stems from funding models and goals of the service. BART
is treated as near-metro (and in the central parts, is a metro) where moving
people fast and conveniently is a goal. Minimum service is kept at 20 minutes
even in outlying areas at 11 pm on a Sunday, not because there's many people
taking it, but because that's the standard. Caltrain is primarily a commuter
service through wealthy areas to make fairly rich people's commutes a little
easier. People taking trains at 9 pm are not a particular priority.

~~~
ilyanep
Thanks, that's quite enlightening. I hadn't considered how much
electrification could make things more efficient and thus easier to make more
convenient.

------
cgtyoder
Thanks for not mentioning the 280. We're trying to keep that a secret.

~~~
dnr
Who is this "we"? We don't refer to highways with the definite article around
here.

~~~
cgtyoder
It's a California thing.

~~~
geofft
The joke is that it's a SoCal thing to use the definite article, or so I hear
-- although I moved to SF sometime back, never lived in SoCal, and find myself
saying "the 101".

~~~
dave5104
I call them the 101 and the 280 as well--and I never lived in SoCal. I think
more people do it up here than they'd like to admit. :P

~~~
stevewilhelm
Using 'the' to refer to a freeway is a dead give away you are not a native as
is "San Fran" or "Frisco".

However, "the city" and "the bay" are perfectly acceptable.

------
joebeetee
We moved here 3 days ago from the UK, so some other random tips (more family
oriented than single person)

1) In addition to Craigslist, Livelovely.com seems to be a great amalgamator
site for finding houses.

2) Be careful when about booking a place without seeing it (we booked a 1
month Airbnb while we searched for places) There are lots of INSANE hills that
are totally impossible with a stroller. Even driving up and down them was
daunting.

3) Credit score seems to be important for everything. We had to put an
additional $400 down on each phone because we didn't have credit.

4) Saying that - so far every landlord who we've spoken to has been open to
some other kind of deal - normally an extra months rent as a deposit, or
paying a month or 2 in advance.

~~~
outpost
Check out Outpost.travel ([http://outpost.travel](http://outpost.travel)) too
for the nightly rentals -- works better than Airbnb

------
GuiA
Nice! I've lived here for almost 2 years and a half now, and love the Bay
Area. Some personal responses to the article:

\- re:exercize, I highly recommend climbing. It's easy to pick up, you can do
it alone (bouldering) or with a partner (great thing to do with a date/SO :-),
and the equipment cost is minimal, it uses all the muscles in your body and is
oddly technical. The Touchstone network is great; it includes Mission Cliffs
(SF, Mission); Great Western Power Company (Oakland). In the valley, Planet
Granite is good. Swimming is also similarly great but harder to find nice
clean pools in the city.

\- re East Bay: I highly recommend living there if you work in downtown SF.
Your commute will be slightly more expensive than if you lived in SF, but it
could end up being shorter (I live near 12th St Oakland and get off at
Montgomery- 25 minutes total commute).

\- re:rent - the situation in SF sucks and will keep sucking for a while. It's
a constant competition, you have to kiss the landlord's ass and fight with 20
other people at open houses, etc. Once again, the East Bay is highly
recommended (Oakland for a city feel, Berkeley if you like to have a yard and
be surrounded by trees- but the commute will be longer). In the valley,
roommatehood is recommended. I lived with Stanford med students for a while,
which was amazing because a) they were poor so they encouraged me to live
frugally, b) they were delightful people and it's always nice to hang out with
non techies, c) they were mature and focused on their studies so there was
zero drama and zero messiness in the house.

\- re:food - learn a dozen or so basic recipes, and cook yourself. You will
save money, and what you eat will be way healthier. Also as a European I find
US portions huge and feel bad about throwing out food everytime I eat out.

\- re:meetups: it can be hard to make friends outside of work when you're out
of college- meetups are amazing for that. For romantic aspirations, I would
also recommed online dating. OKCupid is heavily used by young people in SF,
and also allows you to meet people from outside the tech circle.

\- re:meetups^2: at first, it can be tempting to go to meetups 2-3 times a
week or more. I've found it to be pretty draining after a while - not all
meetups are created equal, sadly. These days, I tend to do more 1-2 meetups a
month tops, but of very high quality (to me- naturally, high quality for me is
not necessarily high quality for you, and vice versa). Of course, finding high
quality (in terms of interests, but also in terms of the kind of people you
get along with best) meetups can only be done through experience - so if
you've just moved here, go insane and explore!

\- The valley is minuscule and after being there for a bit it feels like
everyone is within 2 degrees of separation. Be professional, friendly and
respectful of everyone, and don't burn any bridges. Keep in touch with people
you like - a coffee/meal once a month or so is a great way to do so. If you
can, find mentors (ideally not at your workplace- your boss is rarely the best
person to go to for career advice) whom you can look up to.

\- re: Hacker Spaces - I really love noisebridge and its mission, but it can
be a little grungy (mostly because of SF's socio-economic shape at the
moment). Especially in the recent months, there has been a lot of drama due to
some people not playing by the rules there. Sadly, it can hurt the atmosphere
a bit. I would recommend checking it out, but be aware of that. Hacker Dojo is
way more PC and family friendly. I've heard great things about Sudo Room in
Oakland.

\- side/open source projects are important for your mental and intellectual
sanity, for your "personal brand", and because they can lead to positively
unexpected situations. However, some employers frown upon them (some will
subtly discourage you from partaking in them or submitting a talk proposal to
that conference, while others will outright forbid them ⁂cough cough Apple
cough⁂). In those cases, I like to apply the "forgiveness rather than
permission" and "what they don't know can't hurt them" heuristics :-).

\- on a similar note, Silicon Valley has a very friendly atmosphere, and as it
was put- there are no other places in the world where you can work in sandals
while eating M&Ms. However, don't forget that at the end of the day, your
employer is your employer - not your wife, or your girlfriend, or your
parents, or your kids. It's a two way street - you should be getting as much
out of the job as the job gets out of you - and jobs in Silicon Valley are
very demanding and tend to take a lot from you. Don't feel bad about quitting
a job that does not jive with you just because your boss is a cool guy who
will play beer pong with you on Friday nights. Be thankful for what you have,
but remember that engineers are in high demand. "Company loyalty" and "company
culture" are words that employers know how to use to their ends. In what I've
seen of Silicon Valley Companies who claim loudly that they have "work/life
balance" and actually do encourage it are a minority (that can't mean that
it's impossible to achieve- just that you may have to work a bit for it to get
it).

Finally, a tip for fresh grads: it can be pretty mindblowing for people right
out of college to have a 5 figure (or in some cases, 6 figure) salary after
living on ramen for years. Some people spend it by getting a really nice
place, buying a fancy car, and going to Tahoe every other weekend. I would
recommend trying to put aside 50% or so of your take home paycheck every month
- it's easily doable without compromising too much, and if you want to treat
yourself down the road (take 3 months to travel the world, or dive into your
own startup, etc.) you'll be happy to have several months (if not years!) of
living expenses saved up.

~~~
ericabiz
> there are no other places in the world where you can work in sandals while
> eating M&Ms.

Heh, sure there are! I run a startup here in Austin, and there are plenty of
tech jobs, sandals, and free M&Ms here. After living 10 years in the Bay Area,
I am also enjoying owning my own house with a yard for far less than I would
pay in the Bay Area. And, if you like to cook, Central Market beats the pants
off any grocery store in/near SF.

~~~
gammarator
_And, if you like to cook, Central Market beats the pants off any grocery
store in /near SF._

Berkeley Bowl.

------
kristjan
On housing, I'm happy to report that Craigslist isn't the only option.
[http://apartmentlist.com](http://apartmentlist.com) is somewhat more pleasant
to use and less full of duplicates / other nonsense.

Disclosure: I work at Apartment List. Since someone already mentioned
LiveLovely, I suppose I'll recognize them too :-D

------
yaelwrites

        −
    

This is cool. One addition: a great place to work out for those who like
throwing heavy shit around is Catalyst Athletics in Sunnyvale.
[http://gym.cathletics.com/](http://gym.cathletics.com/) (Disclosure: I work
with the monthly journal they put out--but only b/c they're awesome.)

~~~
jacques_chester
Please note that I am jealous of where you work. Everett's is my favourite Oly
book in my collection.

~~~
yaelwrites
I actually work remotely, but thanks! He is great to work with. Super nice
guy, too.

------
therandomguy
Hi. I moved to the Bay Area last week. I'm a family guy with little kids. I
split my time between San Mateo and San Jose. Regular tech job. In about 6
months I will start lookin for a house to buy. I don't mind upto 50 mins of
commute each way. Any recommendations?

~~~
kjackson2012
It depends on your down payment and your salary. Does your wife work? Are you
open to sending your kids to a mediocre school or do you want them to attend a
private a school?

All areas with good schools will run you over 1M for a house. A place that
isn't ghetto with mediocre to bad schools will run you about 750k.

~~~
therandomguy
School district is important. How about if I increase my commute time? Would
you say San Ramon or Pleasanton are bad options?

~~~
hack_edu
Those cities are way, way out there and absolute commute gridlock hell. You
also need to understand just how dense the suburban strip-mall monotony gets
once you cross the hill...

------
trishume
I loved this guide. I appreciated the information on expenses, transportation
and the summary of which companies are where. I'm impressed that it is
possible to live on 30k/year even with the high rents and other costs.

------
pg
Palo Alto: Palantir

~~~
Patrick_Devine
and VMware, which is the largest non-hospital, non-Stanford employer in town.

~~~
presty
Added. Forgot about those (shame on me). Specially Palantir, since their
building is right across the Caltrain.

~~~
prostoalex
Tesla Motors headquarters by VMWare and SAP also employs quite a few.

------
pshin45
I just recently moved to San Francisco, and for the "Housing" section, I
highly recommend mentioning "Padmapper" (web app & mobile app) to quickly
navigate all the different Airbnb and Craigslist listings in one place.

They have a great map-based UI that easily lets you see how many listings are
available where and for how much, and you can easily filter by price, type of
stay, # of bedrooms/bathrooms, etc.

------
ww520
The Bay Area has a lot of hiking trails where not many people know. Marine
county alone has hundreds of trails. Lots of trails in the mid-peninsula,
inland, in the mountains, along the coast, along various reservoirs, lagoons,
or lakes. East Bay has lots of trails in the mountains. Evan SF has some.
Land's Ending at the Pacific coast is perfect for an easy sunset hike.

------
js2
Under activities, you must add a link to
[http://www.bahiker.com/](http://www.bahiker.com/)

------
bradL
The Bay Area is not Northern California. It is Central California. Examples of
places in Northern California include Yreka, Eureka, Redding, and Klamath
Falls.

I have found that (Bay Area subset of N. CA) is a very common misconception of
people who have recently moved to the area.

~~~
_delirium
"SF isn't north enough to be Northern California" is a common view of people
who live in Eureka, Redding, etc., but in my experience people who live in SF
think of it as northern California. California basically has two big centers
of population: SoCal is LA and friends, and NorCal is SF and friends. Above
that are remote regions heard of in legends (either old legends about the gold
rush, or newer legends about pot farming).

The Bay Area is _definitely_ not within Central California, taken as a
sociogeographic term. The Central California Coast is the coastal region
between roughly Santa Barbara and Point Lobos, centered on SLO. There is also
another inland definition of Central California:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_California](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_California)

~~~
bradL
I would make the comparison to "Upstate New York" [0]. I like this Wikipedia
article more than the one for Northern California because it admits that
"there is no clear or official boundary between Upstate New York and Downstate
New York".

The same is true for Northern and Southern California. There's no official
distinction. Calling the Bay Area part of Northern California places too much
emphasis on the Los Angeles area. By analogy, saying that "North" begins at
the Transverse Ranges is like saying that "Upstate" begins at Yonkers.
Ridiculous.

[0]
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstate_New_York](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstate_New_York)

------
t413
The fitness section missed rock climbing! It's a great community that's very
popular with young engineers. Mission Cliffs (touchstone gyms) and Planet
Granite are the big names and there's endless beautiful real rock around the
area to be found too.

------
fersho311
My friend and I curate a secret list of fun events to go to in the bay area,
most of them tech and startups. Hope someone finds it useful!
[http://events415.com/](http://events415.com/)

~~~
nabeards
Couldn't get beyond the splash page because you apparently require Facebook?

------
ttdan
Thanks for the guide I just moved out here this week to start as a founding
engineer in a new VC-backed startup in San Francisco. Anyone have any
recommendations for finding roommates in the area?

------
dylz
Suggestion for more food: East Bay? Berkeley Bowl is pretty awesome.

------
cloudwizard
What about the Peninsula? Close to SF but with sun and car friendly. Close to
SV but easy drive to SF. Personally, I like being within an easy drive to SF
but not be in SF.

------
mstepniowski
Now, does anyone know of a similar guide, but for Seattle area?

~~~
seltzered_
I used a reddit thread (google barbiedreamhorse seattle neighborhood) for the
housing. It is also getting expensive out here, but if you're willing to not
live on capitol hill it shouldn't be as bad.

No idea on the tech scene out here - I've been consulting & bootstrapping from
home.

------
welder
One thing is missing: bay area bike share

[http://bayareabikeshare.com/stations](http://bayareabikeshare.com/stations)

------
joeblau
I wish I had this two years ago when I moved here.

------
pacifi30
You are so good, I love all the details about the day to day requirements you
included in your blog.

------
architgupta
What do you guys recommend for health insurance as a freelancer? (Short term
and medium term visit)

~~~
mjn
If you're a non-resident visitor, you probably need to buy travel health
insurance from your country of origin. U.S. health insurance will typically
only sell to residents. You don't have to be permanent resident, but do have
to be a legal resident of the state in which you're buying health insurance.

For example, coming from Denmark, I was able to buy travel health insurance
for coverage in the U.S., from [http://www.gouda.dk/](http://www.gouda.dk/),
for $100/mo. It would've been cheaper if it were for travel to _any_ other
country besides the U.S. (there are three price categories: Europe, world
excl. US, world incl. US), but _c 'est la vie_.

If you become a California resident, you can buy health insurance here:
[https://www.coveredca.com/](https://www.coveredca.com/)

------
akoo
excellent article. Why doesn't this exist for every city in the world?

------
wudf
This is really great. Recent grad from Boston here :)

------
dbieber
Don't forget Google Shopping Express!

------
patrickmclaren
How is the nightlife in the Bay Area?

------
briankim
Great guide, thank you

------
michaelochurch
Someone should write, for the starting-out 22-year-olds out there, a guide on
how to do technology _outside_ of the Bay Area.

The Bay Area had a great run, spanning several decades, but the VC darlings
and private equity carpetbaggers who never belonged in the tech scene, in
their zeal to turn everything into a shitty New York knock-off, ruined it.

It's not the land of opportunity any more. You're not going to get rich on
0.05% "equity" (inequity?) in some hail-Mary startup, nor are you even going
to get the implicitly promised (but rarely delivered) investor contact and the
mentoring to be a founder in the next go; get real, the train has left the
station. I don't know where the next emerging opportunities are, but if you're
22 right now and have no inherited connections, the VC-funded nonsense is far
along in its decline process that, by the time you'll be positioned to take
advantage of it, the opportunities will all be gone.

Bay Area VC-funded companies are now the conservative, boring choice. They
don't involve much risk. There's almost no upside, because engineers aren't
respected in that world any more. It's what you do if you're 22, intelligent,
prestige-focused, and can't think of anything else. There's nothing wrong with
it, as such-- most 22-year-olds have no clue what the fuck they want to do
with their lives, that's nearly universal, and it's generally not a mark
against the person-- but it'd be better to see more material pointing the
young to something that still has real opportunities. VC-istan social climbing
ain't it. It's become like the investment banking analyst program, but instead
of getting a bonus every year, you get a get a bonus at "liquidity" _if_ that
ever happens-- and if you're an engineer, it's a mediocre one and you'd have
done better at a hedge fund.

If I were just coming out of school, I'd move to Chicago or Austin before San
Francisco, just to avoid the effective debt bondage of exorbitant rents. New
York's also nice if you're into finance, although its tech scene is pretty
pathetic.

The real goal should be to end the tyranny of location, because it hurts
people on both sides. First, it forces people to move out to San Francisco who
really don't want to be there; that's probably half the Bay Area tech
industry-- people go for the opportunities that are there, not the place
itself. Second, it drives up rents and ruins things for the natives who've
lived there forever and love the city-- and it should be given back for them.

~~~
ots
What about Boston area? Where it stands comparing to SF, Chicago, Austin and
NYC? There many start-ups around, but I don't know how viable they are.

~~~
ghaff
Lots of viable startups in Boston/Cambridge (and also further out--though
those probably tend to be more established tech companies). As a _very_
general rule the Boston/Cambridge tech/startup scene tends to be a lot more
varied than the web/mobile ecosystem that the Valley is probably best known
for these days, e.g. lots of biotech-related in addition to all the big firms,
Boston Robotics, etc. Though there's still quite a bit of software as well.
BTW, Boston/Cambridge are pretty expensive too if one wants to live in the
city though not at the SF level.

