
Google managers kept blacklists of conservative employees - DeusExMachina
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/conservative-google-employees-are-blacklisted-lawsuit-alleges-2018-1
======
malvosenior
Here's a really good summary of other things in the lawsuit with screencaps:
[https://twitter.com/mjaeckel/status/950446329603461121](https://twitter.com/mjaeckel/status/950446329603461121)

If even half of that is true, then I'm really grateful that this lawsuit is
bringing these actions to light, this is unacceptable.

EDIT: Really unfortunate that this article got flagged. It's important and we
should be able to discuss it.

~~~
lykr0n
Scrolling through those screencaps, I'd get up and walk out if I saw that on
the internal slack where I work. It's one thing for someone to post it, it's
another for HR to condone it by not policing it.

EDIT. Not commenting on it, but
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTCqvlRXUAILVUL.jpg:large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTCqvlRXUAILVUL.jpg:large)
. The fact that there is open discussion on terroristic activities, and the
fact that it's not removed over the course of 24 hours. What in the fuck?

~~~
vm
This reminds me of the awful investment banker / hedge fund emails that came
out after the financial crisis. Feels like tech is replacing Wall Street, a in
bad way.

------
Knufen
I wonder if the progressive left realize that the inevitable reaction to
sacrificing all reason at the altar of progress, is a rise to the right

PS. Sorry for the poor sentencing structure, not as fluid in English as I used
to be

~~~
frgtpsswrdlame
What? You think the right is more _reasoned_ than the left? Come on.

Besides you don't think there are workplaces where it's a blackmark to be a
progressive? Why don't you come over to some finance jobs?

~~~
Knufen
I never said the right is more reasoned than the left. I said that currently
the progressive-left is sacrificing reason and that it will lead to a rise to
the right. This is just natural action-reaction.

You are putting quite a lot of meaning into my sentence that isn't there,
projecting is never useful in a discussion.

~~~
frgtpsswrdlame
>You are putting quite a lot of meaning into my sentence that isn't there,
projecting is never useful in a discussion.

Okay.

>I said that currently the progressive-left is sacrificing reason and that it
will lead to a rise to the right.

No they're not. How is it that you think the 'progressive-left' is sacrificing
reason?

~~~
Helmet
> No they're not. How is it that you think the 'progressive-left' is
> sacrificing reason?

Where do you want to start?

\- They actively contributed to an increased homicide rate and made
neighborhoods more dangerous for minorities by pushing a false anti-police
narrative, engaged in anti-police protests, sentiment, and actions. Their
actions resulted in a pullback in policing in dangerous neighborhoods and
massive spikes in crime rates. This is a view shared by many minorities, who
wish for the police to return to their neighborhoods, so that they can feel
safe. Source? How about the right-wing rag NPR:

[https://www.npr.org/2017/12/31/574824963/baltimore-
residents...](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/31/574824963/baltimore-residents-
blame-record-high-murder-rate-on-lower-police-presence)

\- They actively push pseudo-social science into fields where rigor,
exactness, and soundness is most important, such as engineering, where errors
can have catastrophic consequences:

[http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19378629.2017.14...](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19378629.2017.1408631)

\- They viciously attack on ideological grounds any attempts at objective
assessment when the statistics do not fit their narrative. Examples? There are
hundreds, but how about professor David Gillhorn at the University of
Birmingham, who says math serves "white interests" and:

“frequently encode racist perspectives beneath the facade of supposed
quantitative objectivity.”

\- They have, particularly on college campuses, collectively lost their minds.
Please see the Evergreen State College incident, along with dozens of others.

\- Most of their social science experiments are absolute junk:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis)

Do you want me to keep going?

~~~
frgtpsswrdlame
>Do you want me to keep going?

Yes, I'd really like to gather all this up and look into it.

------
iFred
I _feel_ like that this is a pretty common practice in our industry.

At a previous employer, we had someone who was dyed in the wool Republican
that was outspoken in his personal life about "the blue line" and "all lives
matter". When it came to a discussion for a promotion for a senior engineering
role for this individual, we had another manager who felt uncomfortable having
an employee with the views this guy shared. Mind you, at work, he was pretty
polite and you only got an insight into his life if you accepted his friend
request or saw the bumpersticker on his car in the garage.

~~~
gvb
A concrete example is Brendan Eich who was forced to resign _in 2014_ as
Mozilla CEO over his _personal_ contribution of $1,000 _in 2008_ in support of
California's Proposition 8 (a now-overturned 2008 gay-marriage ban).

Ref:

[https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-
resignat...](https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignation/)

[https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozill...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/04/mozilla-
ceo-resignation-free-speech/7328759/)

~~~
flycaliguy
A stance which he shared with Obama at the time.

~~~
dragonwriter
Obama was a public opponent of Prop 8; he did not share Eich’s stance on the
effort to enshrine discrimination in the California Constitution.

------
joshstrange
"alleges a new lawsuit"

This is all speculation yet the title reads as fact. I'm not saying they
didn't do it but let's get a title change to what is really happening here.

~~~
malvosenior
I agree with you that we shouldn't be citing accusations as facts. I do wish
that rule was equally applied though, there have been a ton of Ellen Pao
articles on HN that say she was the victim of discrimination when in fact she
lost her lawsuit and the court found no evidence to support her claims.

~~~
lykr0n
I wish the same thing. There is a double standard where the shit can only role
down the proverbial hill. As someone pointed out below,
[https://twitter.com/mjaeckel/status/950446329603461121](https://twitter.com/mjaeckel/status/950446329603461121),
shows that lots of the evidence in the lawsuit is "It's perfectly fine if [the
left-leaning] do it, but unacceptable if someone else does"

------
rwbcxrz
> Whether expressing anti-diversity sentiments at a workplace is a protected
> “conservative viewpoint” or, rather, a form of bigotry that actually creates
> a hostile environment is at the heart of the case

Expressing anti-diversity sentiments does create a hostile environment. I
don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.

~~~
malvosenior
I think the problem is that "diversity" has come to mean "bash white males",
so being speaking out against that seems natural.

EDIT: instead of replying to each of you who say this doesn't happen, please
look at my link of the evidence being submitted in this case to see that it
does happen (or someone is faking a _ton_ of evidence):
[https://twitter.com/mjaeckel/status/950446329603461121](https://twitter.com/mjaeckel/status/950446329603461121)

~~~
forapurpose
If we're going to discuss it, I'd say let's all stick to facts we can cite and
eliminate the charged or hyperbolic language (e.g., "bash").

> "diversity" has come to mean "bash white males"

I've heard many partisans against diversity say that, but it has not been
something I've observed myself.

IMHO and IME, it's the reverse: Criticism of white men is limited because it
will alienate and provoke too many powerful people (white men having an large
bmajority of power). Racism and sexism are very widespread and overwhelming,
but many white guys are somehow not very aware of it. Look at what's been
happening with women right under everyone's noses for all this time, and the
#metoo movement is just bringing it to light; women are just now criticizing
these men. There should have been more criticism for many years.

~~~
pandaman
>I've heard many partisans against diversity say that, but it has not been
something I've observed myself.

Did you look into the lawsuit? There are screenshots of people, who appear to
be very pro-diversity, saying exactly this.

~~~
forapurpose
A screenshot from one discussion at one large company and presented by someone
suing the company, even if it shows what you say, isn't evidence of widespread
behavior.

------
twobyfour
There's also a difference between discriminating against people for their
political views (which isn't a protected class anyway) and choosing to avoid
adding people to your team who have expressed opinions that make the workplace
hostile to other employees -- which appears to have been the intention of the
managers in question.

~~~
Helmet
No, no there isn't. And if holding conservative views makes the workplace
"hostile", a ridiculously vague and subjective state of affairs, it's not
because of the conservatives.

~~~
tdb7893
If you read the article the mangers don't talk about conservative views but
'anti-diversity' views, which make more sense how they can make an environment
more "hostile".

~~~
Helmet
"Anti-Diversity" is a dog-whistle for a slew of brain-dead progressive
groupthink, in the same way that "globalist" is, essentially, an anti-semitic
slur.

If you believe that your company should hire the best and most qualified
people for the job, you probably hold "anti-diversity" views.

If you do not believe me, below are some examples of "rascist" and "sexist"
statements, per the University of Minnesota:

[http://sph.umn.edu/site/docs/hewg/microaggressions.pdf](http://sph.umn.edu/site/docs/hewg/microaggressions.pdf)

Examples:

“I believe the most qualified person should get the job.”

“America is a melting pot.”

“Everyone can succeed in this society, if they work hard enough.”

“Where were you born?”

“You speak good English.”

~~~
tdb7893
I was expecting some horrible pdf akin to some crazy 'liberals' on twitter but
that pdf actually does a decent job explaining why these can be upsetting in
some situations (it's not like the writer thinks that asking where someone is
born is bad in literally all situations). You might personally disagree but
the message section of the table talks about how these sayings can be
interpreted

~~~
Helmet
The fact that you've normalized this is telling.

~~~
tdb7893
I don't choose what other people find upsetting and if being a little more
cognizant of what is on this chart helps me not inadvertently upset people I
don't understand how that is an issue. I think the chart is supposed to help
us see some of these statements from other people's perspectives.

------
adrianlmm
“We look forward to defending against Mr. Damore’s lawsuit"

Is not the typical PR answer when you got sued, you spect something like:

"Here at Google we are against any kind of discrimination and we deny the
alleged acusations, those do not represent our values"

That is a typical PR answer, but instead they are practicality saying "yes we
do all that terrible stuff, so bring it on".

~~~
tdb7893
It seems to me that it would make much more sense that they are looking
forward to the case because they think they have a strong case that they
DIDN'T do any of that stuff. It seems strange that they would look forward to
a case where they were actually culpable.

------
dominotw
I keep hearing about all kinds of lists lately. Some seem to think these are
good idea.

> IS IT FINALLY TIME TO TAKE THE 'SHITTY MEDIA MEN' LIST SERIOUSLY?

[http://www.newsweek.com/it-finally-time-take-shitty-media-
me...](http://www.newsweek.com/it-finally-time-take-shitty-media-men-list-
seriously-762260)

Feels a bit soviet union-esq to me. But the left seems to be rallying behind
ideas like these, lets see how this turns out.

------
tenpoundhammer
> The lawsuit cites another post from another hiring manager that said, “If
> you express a dunderheaded opinion about religion, about politics, or about
> ‘social justice’, it turns out I am allowed to think you’re a halfwit… I’m
> perfectly within my rights to mentally categorize you in my [d*ckhead] box…
> Yes, I maintain (mentally, and not (yet) publicly).”

It's definitely illegal to discriminate based on their religious beliefs. I'm
thinking the discovery process is going to find a lot of legitimate issues, if
the the lawyer bringing the suit has already found stuff like this. Maybe the
lawyer was using this blacklist stuff as a way to get more information and
find bigger problems.

~~~
Null-Set
An opinion about religion is not a religious belief. Saying "I don't believe
Muhammad was a prophet" is a religious belief, but saying "Islam breeds
terrorism" is not.

------
avs733
Does anyone else see the irony in a political ideology that is against anti-
discrimination provisions in law being suddenly running to the legal system
when they feel discriminated against?

~~~
ng12
> against anti-discrimination provisions

Says who?

------
ENGNR
Is 'conservative' even a protected class? It seems like the kind of thing
conservatives would argue against to be honest

Can a progressive company refuse to hire non-progressive people based on
cultural unsuitability? Religious organisations seem to think it's ok

~~~
malvosenior
Political affiliation is a protected class in California. Race and gender are
both protected classes at a federal level. As I understand it, his class
action lawsuit is on all three fronts.

------
justherefortart
Why is this flagged? WTF?

~~~
scaryspooky
The title posted left out a portion of the actual articles title that is
relevant.

~~~
justherefortart
Yeah because actually clicking through is super difficult.

