
Female Founders Conference - nRike
http://femalefoundersconference.org/
======
tomasien
This thread made me want to cry..... this thread..... oh my god you guys this
thread is so awful!

Does anyone have ideas about what could be done to educate against the
constant same old "If it's just for women, it's sexism, same as if we said
something was just for men" crap? I mean this is basically internet discussion
canon at this point.

As a side note, we COULD have a conference just for men if it was aimed (as
this is) to close the gender gap in society, tech, etc. That conference would
be about treating women better, how to see your own biases and avoid them,
things you think are ok but aren't, etc. Nobody would go, but that would be
analogous event, not an event aimed at helping male only founders found
companies.

Edit: I decided to write up a quick blog for public discussion outside of this
thread

Blog: [http://istommydrunk.svbtle.com/the-maleonly-version-of-
the-f...](http://istommydrunk.svbtle.com/the-maleonly-version-of-the-female-
founders-conference)

Comments:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099636](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7099636)

If anyone wants to find it on the front page, it's there. Expecting/getting
trolls.

~~~
Crake
>This thread made me want to cry....

Ah, estrogen privilege.

~~~
kyro
Who are you?

I've read your comments. You claim to know the real reasons why women aren't
going into tech, you reply to comments about gender/racial disparity with such
simple-minded arrogance and assurance, yet your profile says you're a college
student studying EE and physics. You're nothing more than the typical puffed-
up ignorant college asshole who thinks he has the world figured out.

Wait till all the pubes have grown in and get a few years in the real world
under your belt before thinking about making such idiotic statements because
as of now you have absolutely nothing of value to contribute. For a college
kid in the throes of acquiring knowledge and perspective, you're pretty god
damn ignorant and stubborn and just dickish on the whole.

And if you're not the typical 18-22yo college kid, but rather someone a bit
older, then this is all the sadder really.

~~~
Crake
Who am I? You told me what I am in your comment, so I guess I'll have to bow
to your superior expertise on the matter. Interesting how you think you know
all about what sort of person I am without knowing anything about my
background, my life experiences, or the circumstances and fields of work that
I have/have not encountered sexism in.

SJWs always think they know everything about people who disagree with them,
just by the virtue of the fact that the person dared to disagree. Perhaps it
is for this reason that you and others of your ideological persuasion seem
unable to resort to anything aside from hostile yet awfully generic (and as
result--often hilariously inaccurate) personal attacks.

Rude remarks and mistaken assumptions about my genitals aside, no, I am not in
the 18-22 year old age range, and haven't been for some time. Sad as it may
seem to you, there are indeed people of all ages who believe in
egalitarianism.

~~~
kyro
Thanks for editing your profile. Anyway, you've put more thought and words in
this one reply than you have in most of your recent ones in response to
racial/gender/socioeconomic disparity. You've mocked the OP for crying (which
was a "hilariously inaccurate personal attack" that's a joke now, apparently),
and you've responded to my and others' comments with simple-minded quips.

I'd have kept your age a secret.

~~~
Crake
Eh, same info, tidier writing. I'd forgotten about it for a while.

Man, SJWs really take anything involving the word "privilege" seriously, even
when it's obvious sarcasm. Anyone have any theories as to why their sense of
humor is so underdeveloped?

~~~
jacobtracey
White/male/cigender privilege is having a sense of humour and not being
butthurt constantly, didn't ya know?

~~~
Crake
Be funnier if half the people complaining about SWMs weren't SWMs. Ha.

I don't know what's gotten into the water lately.

------
dkhenry
Cool I am going to host the "Male Founders Conference" And no girls are
allowed.

What are you implicitly stating here? Women aren't good enough to stand toe to
toe with male founders so the only way they will ever be able to succeed is if
they are given special treatment. Why can't I go to this event and learn from
female founders do they have nothing of value to convey to me as a male ?

~~~
wellboy
Could you kindly s tfu please?

Women do simply have it much harder than men in tech and if you even criticize
them for trying to build a community, you do a lot of harm to the whole
industry and will scare away even more women from becoming interested in tech.

With statements like yours, you are making sure that the gender divide becomes
bigger and bigger and that people become very sensitive and insecure when
discussing female founders, female programmers and similar.

~~~
Crake
Feminists are probably the #1 force for scaring away women from tech. If you
say something is true enough times (All men might rape you! Programmers all
hate women!), especially from a position of power and political influence,
people will start to believe it. Encouraging and (in some cases, like
donglegate) inducing both an atmosphere of fear and paranoia in and towards
women is incredibly detrimental towards the general humanitarian goal of
bettering society.

There are isolated instances of sexism, but women don't really have it hard at
all in tech. I'd say the sex discrimination in favor of women ("affirmative
action") massively outweighs any lingering discrimination against women.

~~~
orthecreedence
Normally I'd keep walking but, respectfully, I think you need to shut the hell
up.

> All men might rape you!

Nobody says this. Nobody. There's this leftover artifact of overreach from
feminists in the 90s that makes people _think_ feminism is about castrating
men and putting them in little cages until mating season, but most feminists
don't think like this and certainly not most women.

> Programmers all hate women!

This wasn't feminism, this is the NYT spreading their usual ignorant filth
about the tech industry.

> in some cases, like donglegate

Yes, that was ridiculous. That doesn't mean _all_ women in tech are touchy and
going to explode if you say "thrust" or "spurt" or whatever the hell else
other words have double meanings.

> women don't really have it hard at all in tech

Are you a woman? If so, your experiences may have been great so far...good for
you! If not, shut the hell up because you don't know what you're talking
about: whether or not being a woman in tech is difficult or not isn't for you
to say because _you are not a woman in tech_.

~~~
Crake
>I think you need to shut the hell up.

Dissenters are just so _problematic_ , aren't they?

>Nobody says this. Nobody. >feminists in the 90s

More like 2009.

[http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-
sch...](http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-
schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-
women-without-being-maced/)

>This wasn't feminism, this is the NYT spreading their usual ignorant filth
about the tech industry.

Feministing, Jezebel, and the like seem to have a lot to say on the subject.
Hell, so do a lot of HN comments about how "toxic" and "hostile" tech workers
are towards women.

Also, anyone can call themselves a feminist. It's not up to you to decide who
is or isn't one.

>Are you a woman?

That shouldn't matter. Why do you need to ask about my genitalia in order to
decide what to say to me? You should treat me the same way, whether I'm male
or female. Address my brain, not my body.

>If not, shut the hell up

So, I'm either allowed to speak or not allowed to speak based exclusively on
something I was born with and have no control over.

I guess if I have the "right" genitals, I only have to "shut the hell up" once
instead of twice. Either way, it seems you don't want _anyone_ to disagree
with you--even if they are a woman, you'd still prefer them to think what you
_think_ women should be thinking.

Telling me to just "shut the hell up" isn't exactly a convincing argument. I'm
not a kid, and you're not my parent. "Because I told you to" isn't a valid
argument for this sort of exchange.

------
iandanforth
Questions for the women of HN. Do you see gender specific events as something
that will fade away with time? Are they something you are comfortable with
being part of society for the foreseeable future?

~~~
alukima
I hope that gender/race/sexual orientation/anything specific events will fade
away eventually. But right now there's still a lot of casual sexism in tech
that goes well beyond the well meant joke.

I've worked in the adult industry, gaming and lighter tech(IT) before
transitioning to development. Prior to entering the dev job market I wrote off
women who complained about the tech industry as whiny or overly sensitive. On
one of my very first interviews the CEO told me women aren't math minded so he
was going to skip some of the questions for me. On another interview I was
asked why "he should take on the liability of hiring a female programmer".

To be honest I personally could not care less about the sexual aspect of it,
getting hit on, ect., as that stuff can and does happen anywhere. But I've
never ever had people question my intelligence because of my gender until I
got involved in development. (Or at least not bold enough to voice it to my
face in a professional setting.) At first I was even against the idea of
female only learn to program classes until I started volunteering at several
LTC type events and saw the difference in how comfortable women are. It's not
even about sex in 99.9% of cases, which is where a lot of people take it. This
comic gets brought a lot to demonstrate what I'm describing and it's really
spot on: [http://xkcd.com/385/](http://xkcd.com/385/).

I think everyone can agree that we would like to get to the point where
attribute specific outreach programs are not needed but until we get there
they are a good resource.

This wasn't part of your question but I'm sure it was brought up somewhere in
the thread: Obvious sexism is not long dead. I'm only 30 and when I was in
school men had to take shop and women had to take home ec. I was actively
discouraged from college as it was viewed as a waste of money because women
would only spend a few years working before becoming moms (if they finished
school at all).

~~~
msandford
>On one of my very first interviews the CEO told me women aren't math minded
so he was going to >skip some of the questions for me. On another interview I
was asked why "he should take on the >liability of hiring a female
programmer".

Those are a couple of pretty shitty interviews to be sure. I'm curious how
many interview you've had for dev positions and if they're all bad like that
with these being the worst examples, or if they're the only good examples.

What I'm trying to get at is that if it was 2/10 interviews were horrible like
this then that's regrettable but not indicative of highly institutionalized
sexism. If it's more like 8/10 interviews then I would think it is. Obviously
we can't draw any rigorous conclusions from a single person's experience but
I'm curious nonetheless.

Part of the reason I'm even asking is because I don't see a lot of sexism in
the tech circles I travel in, but I also don't go anywhere near "brogrammer"
type gatherings either. Based on the absence of sexism I see on a regular
basis I'd like to believe the best in people in general.

~~~
alukima
I should have made it clear that it's is certainly not the majority. My very
first interviews were the bad ones and I was referred to the "skipping math
questions" guy by a close friend. There was some other minor shit but I felt
like it was caused more by awkwardness than sexism. After my troubles I
started heavily screening companies I accepted interviews at. So this was 2/8
in person interviews but that's very high because of my pickiness. I probably
did 20 or so phone interviews and either chose not to take it further or
wasn't invited to continue.

I also run a very large meetup group (around 4000 people) that is nearly 100%
tech workers. In four years and hundreds of meetups I've only met a handful of
guys that have issues with women in tech. But like I've said, the ones that
really believe there's something different about women that make them not care
about hard work/intellectual pursuits/math/whatever are just so hateful that
they stick with you.

I ended up joining two wonderful companies that were totally accepting and I
felt 100% comfortable around everyone at all times. I got a contract to hire
gig at Scripted but before the hire date I got an offer from ThoughtWorks from
an earlier interview. I can't even describe how wonderful they both are.

I think that it's an ugly cycle right now. It's hard for me to talk about the
experiences I've had because without adding a ton of qualifiers it can sound
like I am blaming more than those few specific people. Which obviously puts
people on the defensive which only leads to worse situations.

I'm jet lagged and rambling, hope this gives you a little more insight.

------
eevilspock
The larger discussion is happening here:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7097254](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7097254)

------
yetanotherphd
I think that women are often put off by the nasty, aggressive vibe in tech. No
one wants to go into an industry where they will get sworn at, or have snide
remarks made at them. Here are some examples just from this thread:

>you're pretty fucking ignorant and stubborn and just dickish on the whole.

>no need to get your panties in a bunch over this.

>Could you kindly s tfu please?

~~~
Crake
You do realize the language being employed in your examples is from the side
arguing _in favor of_ the gender segregation themed conference, not against
it, right?

------
sdegutis
I can't comment about this because I'm a white male and therefore cannot
relate to anyone who is oppressed, since I've experienced nothing but
privilege my whole life. So the only thing I can do is be silent so that the
silenced can be heard.

------
mhurron
Isn't this kind of short notice ... oh wait, my mistake, everyone who is
important is already in Southern California.

~~~
toggle
This does not deserve to get downvoted, you're right in pointing this out. I
mean, applications are accepted on February 10th, and then IF you get to go,
you have _nineteen_ days to get there? I know a lot of attendees will already
be in Silicon Valley, but that's cutting it pretty close for those who need to
find a flight.

------
kartikkumar
Interestingly, although the event description clearly asks: "Are you a woman
interested in starting a startup?", if you click through to the application,
it actually asks you for your gender. Is that because YC would still like to
know now many men want to be present at the event? Is it because men are
allowed, but they're not advertising it? Or will they simply inform all men
that applied that regretfully their applications have been denied?

~~~
Crake
And for trans people who don't conform to the gender binary, no option
whatsoever: there's only "male" and "female" as an option. Now, I'm not asking
for that crazy xe and xir stuff, but if you're going to go to a conference
where their main claim to fame is being gender themed, you should be able to
put down "other" or "prefer not to specify" (the latter of which may be
preferred even by some people who _are_ firmly on one end of the gender
spectrum). One big problem I have with events that are either thematically or
exclusively gender segregated is that all it really does is reinforce gender
roles. You've got to pitch in with one camp or the other, so that the
privilege checkers know how many points to assign you. I don't like it. My
computer doesn't care what my gender is or isn't, or what's between my legs.
That's actually one--of many--things that has drawn me to tech.

That said, these are all good questions.

~~~
kartikkumar
Yes, particularly relevant in the Bay Area, where gender discussions are
mainstream. I lived in the student co-op system in Berkeley, and it was then
for the first time that I really started to appreciate the meaning of "other"
as a gender option. I guess YC and SV companies are not yet ready to be that
"open-minded"?

------
znowi
This escalated quickly. From a creative interpretation of the interview, to a
lengthy plea from pg defending his honor, and now a whole conference for
women. I myself have nothing against such a forum, but the way it came about
to be is ridiculous and insincere. It's a result of an overreaction and over-
attempt to save a reputation. It's not really about female founders, it's
about pg and allegations of sexism.

------
therogerwilco
This is like feminism. Once I had a feminist say it was about equality for
women AND men.

I said, "would you like to join an organization called 'maleism'? It's for the
equal treatment of men AND women."

