
Ask HN: Mindfulness for Hackers - danfrost
Hi HN!<p>I&#x27;ve collected lots of material, techniques and methods over the past few years on mindfulness and applied it to my own (hacker) brain.<p>My question(s)<p>- what mindfulness techniques do you use?
- do you find the mindfulness material out there a bit hippie?
- what apps&#x2F;hacks do you use?
- do you know of any books specifically for hackers&#x2F;programmers&#x2F;techies?<p>Cheers!
======
Lon7
I don't like apps/hacks when it comes to mindfulness and meditation. Humans
have been successfully meditating for thousands of years without them.
Gamification of mindfulness totally misses the point.

The Mind Illuminated: A Complete Meditation Guide Integrating Buddhist Wisdom
and Brain Science by John Yates (Ph.D.). This is the best book I've read on
meditation. It takes you through why it works, how to do it, how to keep
improving at it, and all the common pitfalls you'll encounter.

~~~
burke
> I don't like apps/hacks when it comes to mindfulness and meditation. Humans
> have been successfully meditating for thousands of years without them.
> Gamification of mindfulness totally misses the point.

I take a bit of issue with this idea in general that because something has
worked for thousands of years, we shouldn't try to apply modern ideas to it.
In this case, I think for the actual practice of mindfulness, it's mostly true
that helpful technology aids are ironically unhelpful, but building a habit
can be hard. Apps like Headspace and so on help a lot of people build the
habit.

Seconding the book recommendation -- it's by far the best book I've read on
the topic too.

~~~
Lon7
I have mixed feelings overall with the technological aides available for
meditation now. I think they are causing more people than ever to take up the
practice which is great.

I bought one of those $300 headbands that "monitored your brain wave" while
meditating and had all the apps. A chapter or two into the book I realized how
ridiculous it all was. They might have helped establish a habit, but I was
never going to progress very far while using them.

~~~
mrdomino_
I'm guessing based on the price point that I helped build the SDK for the
headband you bought. :)

~~~
Lon7
The headband was actually very cool by the way, and I do believe it worked as
advertised. I'm just not convinced it's a great method method to learn
meditation.

------
allhailkatt
Stoicism. It's a practical philosophy where ability to be rational and do good
work is considered the only goal worth pursuing, and incorporates mindfulness
into that system to be able to pursue Virtue. Quotes from adherents include:

"If your body was turned over to just anyone, you would doubtless take
exception. Why aren't you ashamed that you have made your mind vulnerable to
anyone who happens to criticize you, that it automatically becomes confused
and upset?"

"It is in your power whenever you choose to retire into yourself. For there is
no retreat quieter or freer from trouble than a man's own soul."

Similar to Zen and Minimalism, but with the built-in goal of searching for
virtue as the best way to live a life. It's the basis for modern CBT/DBT
therapies as well. Good stuff.

------
samblr
Have not tried any apps - since way I learnt(ing) meditation was/is without
them.

First time I tried meditation was in a small Tibetian temple/monastery whilst
in UK. I fell in love with experience.

The method and mechanics learnt there are simple and I take them as guide.

> sit in a comfortable position. (on a meditation pillow / chair / with legs
> folded etc)

> keep your spine straight (mind to be alert).

> head slightly down with hands together at navel (look up in internet - it is
> some mudra - I forget which).

> a hint of smile on lips

> tongue touching your upper jaw (so we can breath only from nose).

> deep breathing slowly (5-10+ secs for each breath in and breath out)

> observe breath nothing else

\+ variations (both were really good):

> Send good feelings for world to be happy. This happened to be a very
> powerful experience unlike all methods - it would be wrong of me to claim it
> works wonders since have tried it only few times communally whilst in
> monastery. Wish I could do more.

> guided gong meditation (observe breath and sound of gong - both kind of sync
> in meditation).

= = = =

vipassana. Came across this meditation method whilst reading about Yuval
Harari (author of Sapiens) who seems do it like an olympian for two hours
everyday.

I have tried vipassana intermittently - the emphasis is on long meditations
where you 'learn to observe' your own thoughts (and nothing else). Google for
Goenka's vipassana lectures. This appears to make one slightly analytical of
one's thought than previous methods.

------
mping
May I ask why specifically mindfulness? I find that concentration practice is
far more beneficial to hacking, and it also leads to mindfulness. Example:
with sufficient concentration power, one can easily code on a noisy open space
without being distracted.

Anyway, if you don't want to waste your time, find a real teacher, ideally a
monk/nun who's been trained, and study under him/her. Thai Buddhist monks are
renowed for their mindfulness practice. Meditation practice is a risky thing,
meaning you can practice 10 years without going very far, and you will never
know you wasted your time.

------
pdkl95
> a bit hippie

"It's basically recycled Buddhism without all the frilly stuff."

Video essayist Exurb1a recently applied his remarkable ability to distill
complex topics into a few insightful paragraphs (combined with extra dry
sarcastic humor) to mindfulness and made a simple, direct, no-frills summary
that explains the key points. He also included many links to various resources
in the video description.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3rl5O_92Co](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3rl5O_92Co)

------
geoelectric
I use Headspace. I won't specifically recommend it because it's a subscription
and I feel you can get the mechanics easily for a fixed price in other apps or
formats. One might find that perfectly adequate.

That said, I like the guy's voice and find him overall calming, and it's easy
to use with just enough variety (not much, mind you, just a little) in the
different packs/days to keep me from completely tuning out. It's honestly not
all that hippie--there's not a ton of content past the exercises themselves,
but what there is seems pretty relevant to real world stuff, not "expanding
your aura" or whatever. The subscription nature of it also makes me slightly
more aware of the wasted opportunity (and money) if I don't use it, so I have
a slightly higher level of accountability.

I'd compare it to a gym membership vs. doing ad hoc workouts at home, with all
the pros and cons that implies. I personally find it worth the money. YMMV,
but they have some content up for free to try out.

Edit: having just read the Wired article that probably inspired this, I should
mention I have notifications turned off and don't track any gamification
features aside from generally having meditation in a habit tracker (which I'd
do regardless of technique).

------
nhayfield
Spent 90 minutes in a sensory deprivation float tank the other day. Highly
recommended.

~~~
iammiles
I'm surprised I don't see this coming up for often. Spending time in float
tanks always relaxes me to a degree I've never felt before.

------
sova
Wake up every morning, Give thanks, Practice Gratitude to my Wonderful
Teachers by practicing sitting meditation.

Catch your luminous mind early in the day and sit in the in-dwelling Nature of
Expansiveness and Clarity. Mind has a natural state beyond the vicissitudes
and temporariness of all manifestation. Resting in this natural state is the
key instruction.

A single drop of water every day can bore a hole through a stone. But splash a
bucket of water on a boulder all at once and there's no progress. Steadiness
and Regularity in commitment to "polishing" of mind state, clarity, joy,
altruistic and beneficent intent and attitude, all lead to serendipitous
unfolding.

I'd say find a nice list of skillful mental qualities to cultivate and work on
one each day in a rotation. Training diligently in the Four Limitless Abodes
or Four Divine Modes of Being (Brahma-Viharas) is my heart's advice to you.

------
joekrill
I don't really see how mindfulness would need anything specific for a
particular field / personality type. What is special about being a "hacker"
that requires a special approach to mindfulness?

If you're trying to find "mindfulness hacks" I think you'd probably be missing
the point.

There's plenty of "non-hippie" books out there on the subject these days...
Waking Up by Sam Harris and 10% Happier by Dan Harris come to mind.

~~~
pvilchez
I don't think there's any field that requires a special approach to
mindfulness, but it may be useful to people in those fields to have examples
put in relatable contexts - that's why you'll see Mindfulness For
Athletes/Executives/Etc... even if it kind of all boils down to common
elements.

------
RikNieu
All these apps and programs over complicate things. The only app I would
recommend is your phones built-in timer.

Then do anapanasati, or get The Mind Illuminated, as others suggested, if you
need a more thorough explanation on what to do.

The only other enhancements I can think of are earplugs or a sensory
deprivation tank.

You don't need to listen to some narrator, you need to anchor your mind, and
then watch what it's doing.

------
gtmusic
I agree, I'm not fond of mindfulness hacks, but there are some tech approaches
that can help someone build a practice without a book or a teacher.

I'm in love with a meditation app called Timeless on iOS. So there are tools
like that one can use to start and maintain a meditation practice.

------
nxsynonym
related: [https://www.wired.com/story/the-unbearable-irony-of-
meditati...](https://www.wired.com/story/the-unbearable-irony-of-meditation-
apps/)

------
taheca
I really like the calm.com app.

I find mindfulness to be at the core of developing emotional intelligence, and
self awareness. These are equally beneficial both privately, and
professionally.

------
mrdomino_
I'm probably somewhat of an outlier with respect to mindfulness as a
hacker—I'm currently in a full-time residential monastic training program. One
way I've heard it put is that a monastery is a place where it's permissible to
arrange your entire life around something besides the ordinary things people
are allowed to and assumed to live for, like work or a family. Say you really
like knitting, then you can say, "I'm going to put knitting at the center, and
sacrifice anything in my life that can be sacrificed for the sake of knitting.
I'm going to live for knitting, and if it comes down to it, I'll also die for
knitting." So, we're doing that, except instead of knitting it's meditating
with the end goal of classical enlightenment in service to all living things.

I also worked for a year and a half on the C++ SDK for Muse, which is an EEG
headband designed for meditation training. I'm still a big fan of them, and
recommend them to people looking for apps for this stuff. I don't Muse much
these days, but that's not because of any flaw with their program. It's
actually quite good in this line of work to create something that people stop
depending on eventually.

In terms of techniques, these days I mostly practice a sort of focus on the
breath in the belly, and during non-practice periods I generally practice
merging with the task at hand, using the act of, say, writing an email as my
focus space. But I also have worked with a lot of other techniques for a few
days or a few months.

I second the recommendation for The Mind Illuminated. It's a fantastic book.
I'd also add Shinzen Young's The Science of Enlightenment.

My main recommendation, though, is to do what I'm doing: join a community
that's devoted to practice. There's a depth and rigor that comes from that
sort of accountability that I haven't been able to find any other way. Of
course you could decide to commit to an extended period of training—say a year
or more—but it's generally not necessary. It's also good to come for a few
weeks or a few days, or even to come by for lunch some time. There are lots of
places that are good—maybe you have a local Zen center or Shambhala center.
There are also lots of good secular meetups, like Consciousness Explorers Club
in Toronto.

In case you're interested in visiting me at my place of training, we have a
website: [https://www.monasticacademy.com/](https://www.monasticacademy.com/)
and you should also feel welcome to email us: info AT monastic DOT academy. We
welcome guests, and one of our specialties is in creating space to practice
integrating mindfulness into your existing work and life. So we operate as a
sort of coworking space, with free wifi and unlimited coffee.

~~~
eeZah7Ux
"The Center for Mindful Learning ... brings the power of education and
business skills"

"modern project-based learning and leadership training"

I wonder what they are really trying to sell and how much this is compatible
with Buddhism (given the pictures clearly hint at Zen).

~~~
mrdomino_
Heh, I appreciate the skepticism. I spent my first year here uncertain of
whether this place was some kind of cult, and stayed away from it for a couple
years afterwards, due partially to that uncertainty. (Note that at no point
was I convinced it was a cult, much less a dangerous one, but P(cult) being
more than like 0.01 is often reason enough to go do something else, all else
being equal.)

I'm speaking personally in the following, not on behalf of the organization,
because it's late, I'm about to go to bed, and everyone else is off on a
vision quest or traveling. So this is all my opinion, probably wrong, but
maybe of use to you.

From my own knowledge, I can tell you everything we are trying to sell: we
charge a modest rate for overnight visits, we have an initial training fee,
and we have a mindfulness in schools program that we charge money for. Of
these, the only thing that comes close to being a significant source of income
is visits. The training fee is largely there because we've found that there is
an extremely high correlation between "not willing to pay a modest training
fee" and "not actually all that interested in this training" historically, so
having it helps to not waste anyone's time. Once upon a time, we tried to make
our main living from the schools program, but at this point it's purely a
service project and the charges are mostly to offset costs.

Our main source of income is donations. We rely on people seeing this training
as important enough for them to give significant amounts of their own money to
it. That has so far in our history happened enough for us to continue to
exist. If it ever stops happening, we will probably stop existing. (FWIW I'm
currently one of the largest donors. I'm not doing it because anyone asked me
to.)

There is a more general thing though, behind what you're saying, which I'm
reading—correct me if I'm wrong—as "this is a super confusing, suspicious-
looking online presence, what is these guys' deal?" That, I can definitely
affirm. We are, as an organization as well as a demographic (people who are
apt to give significant portions of their lives to monastic training), not
super good at the art of marketing, presentation, or taking people's money.
This is why there's a stereotype of spirituality and religion as fluffy,
nonsensical, and counterproductive.

There is another side of that phenomenon: people who are very good at
marketing, presentation, and taking people's money tend, as a demographic, not
to be super good at caring about the world or indeed anyone else. (Which of
course is why there's a stereotype of business and corporations as evil,
soulless, and greedy.)

Fixing that, you may or may not have gathered from our confusing online
presence, is our organization's raison d'être. We think it is great when being
good at doing stuff is correlated with caring about the world and things other
than yourself. We would like it to happen more often. Hence the leadership
training, the business skills, the other stuff that is kind of weird to see
for monastic organizations.

I'm curious what you mean by "compatible with Buddhism." I'd also like to know
which pictures hint at Zen.

~~~
mping
I commend you guys to work on a donation basis; also it's important to have
someone with training (a former monk?) as the teacher.

Personally, what I find confusing about the website is that it conveys a
feeling of a Buddhist monastery (with the leave and meditation posture as
symbol, the domain name clearly aims at monasticism) but I'm not sure if it is
a monastery or not; not sure if the teacher is a monk or not; the meditation
section also notes that there are talks about Buddhism but not exclusively.

If people want to teach mindfulness its none of my business, but if you want
to teach some kind of Buddhism I believe it is best to leave it at the
Buddhist monks and nuns - those are the ones that can/should teach in the
first place.

~~~
mrdomino_
Our teacher is ordained under Shodo Harada Roshi:
[http://www.monasticacademy.com/teacher/](http://www.monasticacademy.com/teacher/)

I suppose it might have helped you for that info to be on the "Meet Us" page.
Is that true? Where else did you expect to find it?

We are not a monastery, in that none of us except Forall are ordained. But we
wake up each day at 4:30 AM, chant and sit for multiple hours a day, and set
aside time regularly to devote all our attention to formal practice. "Monastic
Academy" is our current best attempt at conveying something like that in two
words that people can remember. I welcome any feedback for how to do it
better.

~~~
mping
The information is on the right place I guess but the site's first impression
conveys to me that it is an academy for training monastics. Just one data
point, but I would change the domain to something like spiritual academy.
Kudos for following the schedule, I have been to a couple of retreats and know
how hard it is.

