

Ask news.YC: Good "day jobs" for hackers? - tkiley

This question is for those of us who aren't wealthy and need a stable income to support a family while we conquer the world:<p>What jobs give you the most freedom to do cool things and build new companies while giving you enough money to stay alive?
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iamelgringo
I'm already a nurse, so I'm planning on working as a nurse after I finish my
CS degree this summer. I have an associates degree (2 years) in nursing, and
pay in the Bay area for nurses starts at about $35 an hour + 10-20% shift
differential for working nights and weekends. A nurse fresh out of school
starts at about $80,000 a year in this part of the country. And, there's a
nursing shortage on, so if you have a pulse and a license, you can pretty much
get a job.

I work 3 x 12 hours shifts each week in the Bay area and I started with 4
weeks paid vacation a year and 1 week of educational leave. If I'm broke
picking up a extra shift or two isn't hard, and if I'm plush, I can cut down
to part-time fairly easily. I already work the night shift and sleep during
the day, so keeping hacker hours and coding all night coding is no problem at
all.

Mind you, cleaning up other peoples effluvia is not my idea of a good time,
and it's hard work. I've injured my back twice in twelve months. But, I don't
think about code all day, so when I come home, I really want to program to get
my mind off of work.

I've really disliked my job for years (thus the career change), but in 6
months, I'm going to have 4 days a week free and clear to start my start-up
while getting paid for full time work. So, that makes up for some of the down-
sides.

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steveplace
One word: Smokejumper.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokejumper>

VC: So, what did you do before your startup?

You: I jumped out of airplanes into remote wildfires with nothing but a shovel
and an axe.

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joeguilmette
waiting tables!

you work a 5 hour shift. you make about $20/hour (including tips). your
schedule is extremely flexible. it takes zero experience to get in the door.

being a firefighter is a career. it takes a lot of education/certification and
to actually get paid as a firefighter takes years of effort and dedication.

~~~
tkiley
Waiting tables seems like a great one -- not a lot of "job security", but
plenty of demand, so it should be fairly easy to match your amount of work to
the amount of money you need to get back to work on more interesting things.

Firefighting seems to vary from city to city, but in many cities, it appears
you can start as a firefighter with 6 mos. training, and the starting pay is
decent ($55k in seattle, for example).

That brings up an interesting question, though: if you can make $55k/yr
working 10 days out of every 30 in job x, are you less likely to succeed in
your startup? How much of entrepreneurial success is motivated by need? (The
existence of serial entrepreneurs would seem to indicate "not much".)

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falsestprophet
Chicago police make $60k after 18 months. That is actually a lot of money for
any entry level position in Chicago. As far as I can tell, they work three 12
hour shifts a week. It looks like interesting work that leaves a lot of time
for living.

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tkiley
So far, the best one I've been able to come up with is firefighting. It
provides enough money to survive, and requires 10 days of work per month (and
my firefighter friend tells me station life is often quiet enough that you can
often work on other things while on duty).

It doesn't provide much opportunity for networking or solving interesting
problems on the job, but the job security, reasonable pay, benefits, and low
hours seem like a great deal.

Any other ideas?

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merrick33
I did IT Consulting for 3 years while I figured things out and funded my
company, pay in Southern California was like $25 - $35/hour and really easy
work.

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davidw
Good consulting gigs can give you insights into problems that people face in
the 'real world', some of which might make good startup ideas.

~~~
jgrahamc
Agreed. I'm currently working 50%. I work every other week on a consulting job
that pays the bills for an entire month for me and my family. The other 50%
it's my time (and some extra time with the little ones).

John.

~~~
cridal
Hey John, do you mind expanding on what sort of consulting this is? How did
you manage to arrange your word schedule that way?

~~~
jgrahamc
Sure.

I'm doing two types of work mainly: software development and management
consulting. On the software development side of things I've been doing work on
the backend of web sites (the most well know is <http://www.signal-spam.fr/>).
On the management consulting side I'm helping a start-up that's growing
rapidly to put in place some appropriate processes in engineering so that they
don't explode :-)

I arrange my schedule like that by telling clients that I'm not available at
certain times (the times I want for myself), using the white lie that I'm busy
with a different client (which just happens to be me).

So far, two years now, I've managed to juggle that and bring in enough money.
But there's been some standard of living decline as purchases for expensive
items (say that new video camera I'm ogling) have been delayed.

John.

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jey
I'm freelancing as a software consultant/contractor and living like a college
student.

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DanielBMarkham
Do you have some kind of subject area around which you'd like to do a startup?
If so, find work where you can meet people with problems in that subject area.

If you want to do consumer-based software, work somewhere where you can hear a
lot about what consumers want in software -- perhaps a Best Buy? If you want
to do medical-based software, find a job helping install computer systems for
doctors. For large subject areas, there are all sorts of entry-level jobs.

I've found that the more people I meet with and interact with, the more I
think up solutions for those people. So if possible, surround yourself with
your future market.

~~~
rms
>If you want to do consumer-based software, work somewhere where you can hear
a lot about what consumers want in software -- perhaps a Best Buy?

One could get to know consumers very well by doing in home spyware removal and
general "computer lessons." You can charge as much as any other consultant if
you present yourself professionally to the right people.

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imsteve
This thread has some really terrible advice.

~~~
tkiley
Do you care to offer better?

This question isn't really aimed at people who can afford to live in cardboard
boxes while working on the Next Big Thing. Some of us need a relatively high
baseline level of stability while we pursue chaotic business opportunities.

~~~
imsteve
A full-time startup job and a decent stable job are somewhat conflicting. But
the easiest thing I can think of to try to solve this conflict is to move to
an area with really good job opportunities. This is what prevents me from
taking up the good suggestion of doing consulting - I don't live in an area
where this happens or know people that do.

Probably the best for stability is to join an existing startup and negotiate
with a preference for salary over equity.

If it comes down to you considering some minimum-wage job, like these guys are
suggesting, and you still want to do your own thing then I'd say you're better
off trying to find a quick investment from an angel.

I really think that there is nothing more important in a startup than the
employees (your) time.

