
At 18 Stories, Mjøsa Tower Is World’s Tallest Wooden Building - prostoalex
http://news.cision.com/metsa-wood/r/metsa-wood--at-18-storeys--mjosa-tower-in-brumunddal-to-take-title-of-world-s-tallest-wooden-buildin,c2325089
======
dpfu
There is also the HoHo building („Holzhochhaus“, lit. wood high house) in
Vienna, which is a wooden high-rise with 24 stories and 84 m [0]. They just
added an antenna to the Mjøsa Tower to break the record. (Boys and their
towers…)

[0]
[https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HoHo_Wien](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HoHo_Wien)

~~~
dmurray
A thousand words of German, including a section on its impact on the skyline,
but the only image is the HoHo logo? I know I could edit it myself, but this
just seems strange for any notable building.

~~~
ken
This is very common for German Wikipedia.

Once I had the idea for a project (never completed) to analyze the differences
in pictures accompanying articles across Wikipedia's languages. The results
were about what you might expect. For their respective articles on "Food",
you'll find:

\- English: a photograph of vegetables, meat, bread, beans, and milk

\- Japanese: a room full of tuna at a large fish market, white rice, and water

\- Russian: potatoes, onions, spices

\- Italian: a 17th century painting of some food

\- Esperanto: the cover of an Esperanto book about food

\- German: bar charts tracking food prices (and no pictures of any actual
food)

It's interesting how Wikipedia makes it easy to jump between languages, yet
each language's maintains its own identity and conventions. I've heard people
propose to just start copying photographs from English Wikipedia into others
(which tend to have far fewer pictures), and editors for those languages
asking people to please stop.

~~~
lainga
The same applies to Wiktionaries - compared to English, the French Wiktionary
is elegantly and spaciously structured, the German version telegraphic and
dense on information.

------
jhallenworld
This Swiss company makes all-wood houses: meaning no insulation, they just
make the solid wood walls thick enough to pass insulation codes without
requiring foam or fiberglass. Also no metal fasteners.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_UjIshzMc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j_UjIshzMc)

------
soneca
> _" In fact, wood is a fireproof material despite the commonly held belief
> that it isn’t."_

What? I hold this belief that isn't. I understood the point about keeping its
structure well while burning, but it doesn't make it "fireproof"!

~~~
crote
This is what a forest looks like after a fire:
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Forest_fire_aftermat...](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Forest_fire_aftermath.jpg)
.

Note that the trees are all still there. Wood is surprisingly difficult to
burn, and if it does, it will do so very predictably, slowly, with relatively
low temperatures, while maintaining structural integrity.

This video makes the difference very clear:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-J86Ka9MkQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-J86Ka9MkQ)
. It's not that wood can't burn, it's that it won't burn significantly.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
How do the wooden buildings fare in towns consumed by forest fires? What about
the steel, concrete and masonry buildings?

I wager that if we built forest like structures out of steel and concrete
they'd be far more fire resistant than natural, wooden, forests even if the
amount of fuel at ground and canopy level was kept constant.

This whole wooden building thing is great for a variety of reasons. That
doesn't mean it's not inferior to steel/concrete when it comes to resisting a
major fire. Just because it's inferior doesn't mean it can't still be "good
enough". Trying to claim that a wooden structure has superior fire resistance
to a steel/concrete/masonry structure is an exercise in mental gymnastics.

~~~
martythemaniak
Well, the typical wooden buildings you're probably thinking about (ie,
suburban housing) would be terrible and burn completely. If you take a look at
their construction, they use relatively thin pieces of wood both for structure
and walls.

CLT or Mass Timber buildings are very different, there's basically a crapload
of wood and it is very dense, so dense it can't burn well because oxygen can't
get to it very well.

It is essentially the difference between trying to burn kindling vs a single
large log.

------
mc32
It doesn’t make mention but I wonder if to reach 18 storeys this is
chemically, heat and compression treated wood? Also, no mention on how they’d
keep insects at bay, given the structural criticality of this wood.

Never the less, very exciting to see wood so prevalent in new construction.

There was this[1] recent discussion on new wood frame midrises being very
prevalent.

[1][https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19152986](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19152986)

~~~
buss
It's all engineered lumber. "This high-rise is being built using glulam, CLT,
and Metsä Wood’s Kerto® LVL (laminated veneer lumber)"

glulam = glued laminated timber AKA pieces of regular timber stacked & glued
together CLT = cross-laminated timber AKA glulam but instead of stacking the
lumber, you lay it out in perpendicular layers and glue it together LVL =
laminated veneer lumber is like the above, but made like plywood out of wood
bits instead of solid lumber, with a hardwood veneer on the outside

The wood is also treated to be fire, moisture, and insect resistant

~~~
rurounijones
Given one of the things that wooden buildings inspire is a "Hey, we CAN build
big buildings in a green manner", how do all the things you mention impact
that?

It sounds like gluing, treating etc. etc. would really impact the "greenness"
of this building

~~~
buss
I think the green-ness relates more to the fact that growing timber captures
carbon dioxide, while producing steel and concrete emit carbon dioxide. The
production of the glue, and the processes to glue the timber together
certainly emit CO2, but nothing near the emissions of a steel foundry.

~~~
atupis
Cement production emits 5% all man made CO2 emissions.

------
nimbius
So many people have seemingly given up on wood for strength and durability. As
an engine mechanic by trade, some of the strongest equipment in my shop is
wooden.

\- My diagnostics table can support a load of 2000lbs. You could park a golf
cart on it.

\- my Stronghold work bench will handle up to 8000lbs of load. You could park
an F250 on it.

both of these are maple top/butcher block.

------
JoeAltmaier
There's a reason brick doesn't get taller than 20 stories - the walls at the
base get thicker, the taller it gets. At 20 stories you're basically building
a pedestal on the bottom, to hold up the top. At that point you just get a
larger pedestal on the bottom, and no more usable space going taller.

I wonder what the limit is for wood?

~~~
Bluecobra
If you're ever in Chicago, check out the Monadnock Building. It's the tallest
load bearing brick skyscraper (16 stories) and the foundation goes underneath
the sidewalk.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Brick on the outside; braced on the inside. From the Wikipedia article:

"the masonry walls were braced with an interior frame of cast and wrought
iron"

------
jdavis703
I'm excited for more wooden buildings, but the claim that "Compared to cast-
in-situ concrete, wood makes it possible for construction time to be slashed
by half" seems very optimistic.

There's a building boom going on around my office. The steel and concrete
office tower next door is by far "sprouting" the fast. On the other side is a
residential tower where half of the building is a 20+ floor concrete tower,
and the other half is a 5-floor wood frame structure.

The concrete tower is going up faster, despite this being the same
construction project. Perhaps what I'm missing is that a CLT build is more
similar to steel construction than a wood frame building. Perhaps a real civil
engineer can weigh in...

~~~
jdsully
Seattle is just now allowing wood construction in high rise buildings.
Previously they were an early adopter in mid-rise buildings which is why you
see a lot of apartment buildings with exactly 6 stories around (1 concrete
ground, 5 wood as allowed by the building code).

[https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/washington-state-
to...](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/washington-state-to-allow-mid-
and-high-rise-mass-timber-buildings-300760329.html)

~~~
walrus01
In South lake Union Seattle also has a lot of midrise because of height
restrictions around the space Needle. The needle is not actually that tall,
the city is afraid that rampant real estate developers could completely hide
it in the skyline.

~~~
lenocinor
Actually I think it's because of the seaplane flight path
[https://www.seattle.gov/Documents/Departments/OPCD/OngoingIn...](https://www.seattle.gov/Documents/Departments/OPCD/OngoingInitiatives/SouthLakeUnion/SouthLakeUnionEISAppendixFAdditionalFlightPathAnalysis.pdf)

------
sohkamyung
That article is from August 2017. The latest one I can find on the tower is
from September 2018 but it appears to be nearly complete (target completion
data is March 2019).

[1] [https://archinect.com/news/article/150084833/the-world-s-
tal...](https://archinect.com/news/article/150084833/the-world-s-tallest-
timber-tower-structurally-tops-out-in-norway)

------
d--b
In my opinion, it looks really dull and plain. It's kind of sad that they
would demo such a technology with a so bad-looking tower.

~~~
einarfd
The picture in the article is a computer generated rendering, the real
building looks better.

Although if you don't like the "Scandinavian" school of design. You are
probably not going to like it anyway.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Here is a page with some photographs and more details:
[https://www.artwave.it/ecowave/ecoarchitecture/eco-
tecnologi...](https://www.artwave.it/ecowave/ecoarchitecture/eco-tecnologia-
ecco-ledificio-in-legno-da-record/).

------
bunderbunder
After seeing what this winter's repeated freeze/thaw cycles have been doing to
my city, I'm rethinking the idea that wood is less durable, too.

Winters are always tough, but climate change seems to be exacerbating it.
Where, once upon a time, it used to get cold and stay cold, now the
temperature bounces back and forth across the freezing point, and, from what I
can tell, it's taking a serious toll. The streets are increasingly a giant
mess of potholes and spalling, the sidewalks are a mess, and even the
buildings are starting to fall apart. Yesterday I heard about a person in my
neighborhood being hit in the head by a falling chunk of masonry.

------
SilasX
How does it do with acoustic isolation? Do you hear every footstep above you?

~~~
reza_n
Exactly. I used to live in a low rise apartment building which used modern
wood construction. Not only did I hear everything above me, but the shock
waves (from foot strikes) would also travel thru the structure, so you could
feel everything as well.

------
danans
The Sheffield Winter Garden is a marvel of large scale wood based structural
engineering, ironically enough in the heart of the UKs steel city:

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_Winter_Garden](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheffield_Winter_Garden)

------
wodenokoto
This article is from 2017, and according to it, the building should be just
about completed today.

Any news on how it is going?

~~~
vegardx
Drove past it two weeks ago, looks like it's closed to finished. It felt so
out of place. Anyone that knows Brumunddal knows that there's not a lot of
tall buildings around. I guess the people on top will get an amazing view
though.

There aren't even many 18 stories tall buildings in Oslo.

------
JackPoach
This is really impressive, but what's the real lifetime is going to be?

~~~
vidarh
Gol Stave Church is an ~800 years old wooden structure [1]. Most of the
exterior paneling have been replaced, but the interior structure is original.
And there are plenty of wooden exteriors in Norwegian houses that are 100-200+
years despite the climate.

I grew up in one that was about 100 years old and where the exterior was all
timber covered with plank. Originally there was sawdust added as insulation,
but that was replaced at some point in the 1980's due to the fire hazard.

Of course this building is all specially treated wood, and the structure is
under a lot more strain, so it's not guaranteed that it translates well, but
wood that's treated properly can last a long time.

[1]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gol_Stave_Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gol_Stave_Church)

~~~
JackPoach
Sorry, but you can't compare a multistory building where people live with an
old church.

~~~
crote
How about a 500-year old multistory building still used as a house?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begijnhof,_Amsterdam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begijnhof,_Amsterdam)
.

Granted, it's only 6 stories, but I think we can forgive that, given that it's
500 years old.

~~~
JackPoach
That is really impressive. However, this is an exception, not the rule and
I've seen a number of old wooden houses in really, really bad shape when I
lived in Sacramento. Even after 50 or so years. Of course, they have termite
problem in California, that doesn't happen in other parts of the world as
much.

------
trhway
when i see that pressed/glued bamboo kitchenware, i wonder when the bamboo is
going to take over the world. Being basically just a crazy fast growing weed
grass and thus cheap and abundant, bamboo tensile strength is higher than that
of steel, it is harder than oak yet lighter, bamboo cables only increase
strength when getting wet :

[https://makawear.com/blog/things-you-didnt-know-about-
bamboo...](https://makawear.com/blog/things-you-didnt-know-about-bamboo-
strength/)

~~~
ggcdn
>bamboo tensile strength is higher than that of steel

What? Tensile strength of steel is like 400-1200MPa, Bamboo is < 100 MPa.

~~~
trhway
strictly speaking you're right. My statement is more along those lines:

[http://www.ijstr.org/final-print/nov2015/Comparative-
Analysi...](http://www.ijstr.org/final-print/nov2015/Comparative-Analysis-Of-
The-Tensile-Strength-Of-Bamboo-And-Reinforcement-Steel-Bars-As-Structural-
Member-In-Building-Construction.pdf)

"Although, the tensile strength of steel is 2.5-3.0 times higher than bamboo
and the specific gravity 6-8 times that of bamboo; but by counting their
tensile strength/unit weight (bamboo vs steel), the tensile strength of bamboo
is 3-4 times that of steel."

~~~
ggcdn
As yes, wood has some pretty impressive properties if you normalise by
density. But that also means you need bulk to match other materials.

------
danans
Years again I was on a tour of the Johnson space center in Houston, home of
the astronaut training facility.

As we were looking at a return capsule I noticed that the interior surfaces
were finished with some kind of wood, which struck me as odd, and I asked if
it was for aesthetics.

The astronaut standing near me explained that wood had the best trade-off of
many criteria including weight and durability, and the goal was not to look
like an 80s station wagon dashboard.

------
perlgeek
But why build 18 stories building at all, in a pretty small town (it looks
like)?

~~~
vidarh
Partly because they can; it's very much partly a demonstration of the
technology. Partly because it means not having to let the town spread out and
take over surrounding farmland and wilderness when you can build up.

~~~
doktrin
Also plentiful access to raw materials. Lots of timber production around
Brumunddal.

~~~
kwhitefoot
Is the timber that is used local?

------
riskneutral
> When you have a building made of steel and concrete, the steel melts and the
> building collapses,” says Erik Tveit, Project Manager at HENT AS, the
> general contractor for the site.

Really.

------
Fiahil
If I want to build a robust wooden house, where should I go ? What kind of
resources should I look for ? Any recommendation ?

~~~
nradov
If you're building a house no more than 3 stories high then regular wood
construction with 2x4s spaced every 16 inches is plenty robust, unless you
expect to be hit by floods or hurricanes. And if you do expect hurricanes then
wood isn't a good option regardless of construction.

~~~
mauvehaus
Haven't the building code changes in Florida since (I think) Hurricane Andrew
advanced the limits of what stick-build, platform-framed structures can
survive?

I know metal roof tiedowns ("hurricane clips") were created to solve the issue
of roofs being peeled off wholesale by high winds catching them under the
eaves and lifting.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
The codes in question are more about requiring builders to do a better job
fastening the wood to the other pieces of wood than they are about the
strength of the roof itself.

Building codes in hurricane prone areas basically require you use all manner
of various stamped steel plates and hangers to hold things together to
compensate for the fact that nails tend to rip out of things if you pull in
the right direction.

------
purplezooey
Wood is terrible for multi-tenant buildings. Ever hear your neighbor walking
around in a concrete/steel building?

------
leadingthenet
It's also really ugly.

~~~
raister
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

~~~
yason
If that was true then it wouldn't matter what buildings look like at all.

------
ynniv
_" Using wood means greater fire safety"_

Edit: Outside of how ridiculous this statement is, how does one bring a
charred wooden high-rise back up to code?!

~~~
war1025
There was an article some time back about fire ladders and how wooden ones
will still be structurally sound after getting quite burnt, while metal ones
can lose their integrity well below temperatures where the metal would
actually melt.

I think it was in relation to the San Francisco fire department.

~~~
walrus01
The SF fire department uses wood ladders because they are non conductive, vs
aluminum. They operate in an area with a lot of aerial AC power lines.

~~~
Animats
And worse, 600 VDC trolley lines, which are closer to the ground than
uninsulated distribution feeders. Unlike power lines, trolley wire covers a
sizable fraction of street area.[1] Trying to raise even a 20 foot metal
ladder is dangerous.

[1] [https://www.munidiaries.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/11/wires...](https://www.munidiaries.com/wp-
content/uploads/2015/11/wires_defeat.jpg)

~~~
walrus01
Vancouver has a lot of electric trolley buses, makes me wonder what the fire
department has standardized on...

------
jackfoxy
Same old ugly Bauhaus architecture. Showcasing a beautiful building would do a
lot more to promote innovative construction methods.

------
mikorym
I don't understand how this is described as "green"? Maybe someone can explain
this simply, without emotional bias.

~~~
mikorym
Ok so below were some comments.

TL;DR: carbon sink, pulp wood rather than old growth, trees get replanted.

I think that is all fine and dandy, but I personally would prefer an article
simply describing the building. I don't think it's necessary to go the "this
is green" or "better than concrete" route. For me good is good, that's it.
Don't need to play towards a debate.

~~~
Arn_Thor
In most of the world, people consider climate change scientifically proven.
There isn't a debate. In Norway, the building is featured as "green" because
that is desirable in a world where we want to limit CO2 emissions and other
environmental harm

~~~
mikorym
You missed what I was saying. Using wood is highly dependent on region.

In other places, the greenest building is the one that is already standing.
Even if it may be made from concrete.

------
RickJWagner
"In fact, wood is a fireproof material despite the commonly held belief that
it isn’t."

I stopped reading at that sentence. They went too far.

------
nurettin
I can believe that wooden construction techniques have improved over the past
however so thousands of years. But I can't bring myself to believe that it is
environmentally sustainable.

~~~
jsf01
In countries like Norway, the timber companies replant trees. In addition, the
growing trees suck up more carbon in comparison to the older trees. You think
that mining is preferable to this practically infinite renewable resource?

~~~
magduf
It is renewable, but trees take time to grow, and there's only so much space
available that's useful for growing those trees. I'm not saying you shouldn't
build things out of wood, but the question is how much supply is really
reasonably available?

