
The Fourth of July - apsec112
https://www.popehat.com/2020/07/04/the-fourth-of-july-rerun/
======
myrandomcomment
As a father, a husband, a former soldier and an American, this brings a tear
to my eye. “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though
passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The
mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be,
by the better angels of our nature.” - Lincoln

As an American I feel we are bound not by our failures of past morality, but
are need to fix the. I wish everyone understood this.

~~~
weiming
What me and my family talked about today is that, as immigrants, we are so sad
how much the "native born" people of the US hate their own country. They seem
to never waste an opportunity to remind others of their disdain and it is more
and more visible these days e.g. in big news media or on Twitter.

Makes me sad and I hope this can change.

~~~
hintymad
Yeah, and so many people of color came to the US with a suite case and less
than $1000 dollars, and then became a successful person in a few years. I
certainly did. My wife certainly did. My team, my gardener, and my contractor
certainly did. Some people who are from the same school as I went to have even
become CEOs of big companies, and some have become famous professors or head
of prestigious universities. If anything, I got help from people of all
colors, and particularly from a great system that generations of people in the
US have built.

Is the US perfect? Of course not! But everything in the US is worth hating?
You gotta be out of your mind. Is the history of the US perfect? Of course
not! That's why it's history! Human learn. Human improve. Human societies
evolve from centuries of violence, prejudice, or pure cruelty. If we cancel
them, we won't have a history.

In the meantime, the poorest 20% of the US population is probably better than
80% of the population in the world, and this is not great? The protestors can
afford protesting full time for weeks, and this is not great? We have NBA who
have more than 70% of black athletes. We idolize them. They make millions of a
year. And this is not great? A long list of Hollywood stars are black and we
love them and LinkedIn is full of Will Smith's inspirational interview, and
this is not great? We have a black president in a white-majority country, and
this is not great? We have black mayors, council members, senators,
congressman and congress woman, and this is not great?

If we look at the US history, we have Charles Drew, we have Rebecca Lee
Crumpler, we have Daniel Hale Williams, we have Marie M. Daly, we have Alice
Augusta Ball, we have Katherine Johnson, we ave Dorothy Vaughaun, we have
Christine Darden. The list can go on. Are they not great?

And if we follow the logic of cancel culture, we should cancel Rome, cancel
Greece, cancel renaissance, cancel all religions, cancel Europe, cancel China,
cancel India, cancel Africa. They all had their share of slavery, for
centuries. They all had their share of atrocity, again for centuries. Then
what's left? What's the point? And should we cancel our childhood? Should we
cancel ourselves? Most of us, after all, did something stupid or horrible when
we were young. Should our parents cancel us?

Some people are just sick.

~~~
yongjik
Focusing on the "cancel culture" is, IMHO, putting the cart in front of the
horse. It is a by-product of a society where a cop can murder an African
American in broad daylight and (in most cases) suffer no consequences. If you
can't trust the society to _not murder you_ , why would you refrain from
tearing down anything you don't like?

When the society doesn't serve justice, people will implement "justice" with
their own hands, with often bloody consequences. Thousands lost their heads
during the French revolution: I'm sure many of them didn't deserve it. People
died and lost their homes during the American Revolution, and during the Civil
War: I'm sure many of them didn't deserve it, either.

I'm no big fan of the so-called "cancel culture", but justice is the only way
I see that can rein it in.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
The probability for a black person of being killed by the police in the US is
approximately 0.0005%. That's the probability of being killed (most commonly
because you pulled a weapon on a cop), not the probability of being murdered,
which is at least an order of magnitude lower than that.

There shouldn't be _anybody_ getting murdered by the police. It's totally
unreasonable. But it is in actual fact extremely uncommon.

~~~
cookie_monsta
It might be worth considering that murdered-on-tape-in-broad-daylight is at
the extreme end of the spectrum of violence - both direct and indirect - that
minorities experience throughout their lives. Otherwise you might end up with
the belief that a black person's experience of the USA is only 0.0005%
different to that of a white one's.

~~~
darawk
I think the point is that, though police violence is terrible and should
absolutely be corrected, trying to summarize the United States with it is
incredibly reductionist.

~~~
cookie_monsta
Maybe. Or maybe the point is that for some people systemic racism isn't just
another abstract problem that doesn't really affect them every single day of
their lives.

~~~
darawk
It seems to me that's what's happening in this thread is privileged people
with no experience of systemic racism telling Filipino veterans how they ought
to feel about the country they fought for. The people with the concrete
experience are speaking, and HN commenters are telling them they're bad and
wrong and should be more mad. Seems strange, in light of the prevalence of the
word 'listen' of late.

~~~
hootbootscoot
You had me, then you lost me.

Hubris and the unwillingness to comprehend real problems and the desire to
cover them up with "SHUT UP IT"S GREAT!" won't go down well.

What I'm seeing is more apologism for wrongful historical actions, perhaps in
RESPONSE to what you described, but at this point it's become an "AMERICA IS
GREAT SO SHUT UP"

~~~
AnthonyMouse
It's not "SHUT UP IT"S GREAT!" so much as pointing out specifically why the
claim that it isn't great is wrong, to which the responses were a moving of
the goalposts to some other, generic wrongs against black people that haven't
actually been specified and so can't be addressed.

~~~
cookie_monsta
Patriotism is just as absurd as any other dogma to a person who doesn't share
it. I think the US has done some great things as have most countries. It's
when you start blindly believing it's perfect that it seems less than
rational.

> generic wrongs against black people that haven't actually been specified

Surely you don't need to hear the list again?

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> It's when you start blindly believing it's perfect that it seems less than
> rational.

Who said it was perfect?

> Surely you don't need to hear the list again?

Is there somewhere they keep this list? I keep getting partial versions.

There's the ones where we list bad laws that haven't been on the books in many
years, the ones (like police murders) that do literally happen but are
dramatically less common than the level of attention would lead you to
believe, the thing where people try to claim things with aggregate statistics
without adjusting for confounders...

I'm sure there are some legitimate ones, what I can't understand is why the
focus is regularly on all these ones that evaporate upon examination.

Maybe it's the toxoplasma thing, which I can't link to because SSC is gone. :(

~~~
cookie_monsta
Hmmm... let me guess: You got where you are 'cause you were the smartest and
worked the hardest and won the race amongst equals?

~~~
AnthonyMouse
Don't do that. Don't attack the speaker instead of the arguments. You don't
know anything about me.

~~~
cookie_monsta
It's nothing personal, merely an observation of the phenomena that it's hard/
uncomfortable to see the unfairness of a system of which you are clearly a
benefactor.

The idea that everybody's equal starting... now! is lovely if you can ignore
the fact that some people have a 500 year head start.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
> The idea that everybody's equal starting... now! is lovely if you can ignore
> the fact that some people have a 600 year head start.

Except that nobody is claiming that, and even if they were, you would then be
having a class dispute rather than a race dispute anyway.

~~~
cookie_monsta
So if you understand how historic injustice leads to present day disadvantage
then there's no point distracting from the discussion by claiming to be
bewildered by the fundamentals.

I agree that class distinctions are becoming less useful except if you define
class in terms of opportunity in which case it's hard to argue that it and
race live in two completely separate petri dishes.

~~~
AnthonyMouse
The point is that, for largely existing political coalition reasons, people
are trying to make a class problem be about race because it makes it align
with the base of a particular political party. Police unions lean Republican,
so Republicans have a political need to defend them, so if you can pit black
people against the police then you can get them to vote the way you want
without actually giving them anything. And then you don't have to worry about
them getting together with poor white people to ask why housing costs so much
and there isn't more economic opportunity for non-megacorps.

~~~
cookie_monsta
So, the civil rights movement is a Republican campaign strategy?

LOL.

------
jessaustin
A bit sentimental, but on holidays we can accept that. The bigger problem with
this historical account is that it is incomplete. We Americans like to pretend
that this story begins with WWII, when the evil Empire of Japan invaded those
bucolic isles of the Philippines, whose brave residents were inspired by
MacArthur to rise up against colonialism. In reality, this history began in
1898. Americans pretended to ally with the Filipinos against the Spanish, when
in reality they only wanted to replace the Spanish as colonial overlords. In
the ensuing conflicts and decades of exploitation, hundreds of thousands died.

There was no reason for any of this. America at the turn of the century had no
interests in the western Pacific Ocean. American intelligentsia agreed with
Mark Twain that the barbarity shamed all of us. Sure, some American sugar
companies made some money, and the particular Filipinos favored by American
imperialists made some money. I feel an awful precedent was set. Previously
our worst barbarities had been limited to the South and the Frontier. At a
stroke, they were unleashed on the World. (Seen any news stories about Libya
recently?) The event described in TFA seems a small consolation.

~~~
magicsmoke
The interesting thing is that despite what America did to these Filipino
soldiers, they still chose to be American and sacrificed the majority of their
life to do so. American immigration really is the ultimate test of loyalty.
Makes you wonder how many natural-born Americans would still choose to be
American if they had to go through the immigration experience first.

Now that's an idea. People aren't born American citizens but as probationary
citizens, and they only become full citizens after fulfilling a series of
trials. Imagine what kind of society would emerge from the other end.

~~~
filleduchaos
> American immigration really is the ultimate test of loyalty.

Frankly, more and more people are starting to wake up to the fact that it's a
bullshit test. Partly because immigration really doesn't have to be all that,
and partly because of the global...decline of the United States' image since
the turn of the century.

When I was a kid moving to the US was _the_ goal, now only a handful of people
I know have it at the top of their relocation list (and some have lost
interest in even visiting). Canada and the EU are much more popular
destinations for people looking to move to a western country.

~~~
rayiner
Canada is great. It’s virtually indistinguishable from America for the typical
person.

I don’t know where you’re from, but as a Bangladeshi immigrant to the US, but
I wouldn’t emigrate to the EU. 76% of Americans say that a naturalized citizen
is a “real American” and just 13% disagree:
[https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/...](https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2018-06/the-
inclusiveness-of-nationalities-ipsos-global-advisor.pdf). In France it’s
55-28. In Italy it’s 41-36. There is no place in the world more welcoming to
immigrants than America. Look at what’s happening in the EU. America has been
dealing with huge levels of illegal immigration for decades and for the most
part we’re still very positive on legal immigration. Europe accepted some
refugees from the Middle East like five minutes ago and already right-wing
nationalist parties are winning elections left and right.

~~~
throwaway0891
If you have a look at "legal immigrant that lived here their entire lives is a
real <demonym>" the US goes say down in support.

It's clear they see it as a purely legal status, not necessarily as acceptance
in a society.

That survey probably conflates ethnicity and nationality, as many countries
use the same word for both. Like Hungary for example.

PS: There's no way 50% of Brits think gaining citizenship doesn't make you
British, unless they don't speak English. That's what the word means!

~~~
pjc50
> There's no way 50% of Brits think gaining citizenship doesn't make you
> British, unless they don't speak English. That's what the word means!

That's what _you_ think the word means, but a lot of people use "British" and
"English" as ethnicity descriptors, and standard language on survey forms
includes "white British" as an ethnicity.

I can quite believe that 50% of the population thinks that gaining citizenship
still makes you an immigrant; you could probably find a large support for
"being born in Britain to nonwhite parents doesn't make you British", and look
what happened to Shamina Begum.

(Just to be clear, this is all racism)

~~~
082349872349872
I have heard a horrible joke, for which the punch line was "now I'm Blitish."
That joke is part of the reason I lump Airstrip One in with Oceania.

(we have our own problems with integration, but as far as I can tell, they
diminish greatly in the second generation. Schools are a powerful integrator.)

And to Al-Khwarizmi's point in a neighbouring thread: I much prefer living in
a society where people will interrupt their rant to me about "those
foreigners" to help a head-cover-wearing dark-skinned mother put her pram on
the train and then blithely resume where they left off. That dissonance is
hypocrisy in the right direction. "Even a child makes himself known by his
doings."

------
c3534l
Given this introduction:

> I've re-posted this many times, because it's fundamental to what it means to
> me to be an American.

I was thinking I was in for something uplifting. Instead I got:

> In 1946, Congress reneged on FDR's promise. Filipino solders who fought for
> us and their families were not given their promised citizenship, let alone
> benefits. ... They waited 44 years, until after most of them were dead.

This story is horrible. We betrayed our WWII allies, betrayed people who were
rightfully American citizens, in all likelihood just because they were the
wrong race. Everyone in this thread is acting like this story is inspiring. I
feel like everyone has gone crazy that they think this is supposed to make me
feel patriotic. This is an example of America at its ugliest and most
prejudiced.

~~~
rayiner
This story isn’t about Truman and the other people who reneged on the promise
in 1946–who were all dead by 1992. That’s a very self-centered way to look at
this. This is a story about immigrants who loved America so much that they
proudly accepted citizenship when it was belatedly conferred to them. What
kind of country engenders such love and devotion even in the face of such
slights?

~~~
c3534l
Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be
moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what
they were promised. A prisoner being exonerated of a crime they were falsely
accused would probably be ecstatic, but hearing the story of someone being
falsely convicted hardly engenders feelings of pride in our justice system. I
don't see why it should be different in this case. There was no uplifting
story about how someone managed to change immigration by fighting for what he
believed or anything like that. The story was just "we backstabbed you and 44
years they were happy when we finally removed the knife. Yay us!" I can't
muster any positive emotions in this story. I can't see why anyone would feel
proud of this.

~~~
rayiner
> Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be
> moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what
> they were promised.

This is an extremely shallow take. These men emigrated to the US at a time
when Filipinos were legally American nationals. They were not citizens, but
were already entitled to permanent residency, and their kids were already
citizens by birthright. Citizenship was purely symbolic. Why would they be
happy to accept a symbolic gesture from a country that wronged them? Maybe it
was what they experienced in America in the intervening 40-something years?

As an immigrant, I think many native born people often overlook what America
is or what’s great about it. My mom explained to me today what _she_ thinks is
great about America. It’s that Americans will stop at a red light in an
intersection at 1 am even if the streets are totally empty. America isn’t a
collection of policies and programs. It’s people, connected by a culture,
norms, beliefs, practices, and ideals. It’s a legal system and a political
system that is more than just the outcome of that system with respect to any
particular case or policy. And those things are all tremendous blessings.
People who stop at red lights on empty streets at 1 am are a blessing. You
really cannot understand it if you’ve never really lived without those things.
I can totally see why these people who built a life in America would be happy
to accept that symbolic gesture of citizenship 46 years later, even if it was
long overdue.

~~~
hef19898
You seem to somehow glorify the US a bit too much. Great that you as an
immigrant had success. But just be aware that this is not always the case, and
that there are a lot of negative aspects about the US, or any other country.

------
tingletech
Up until March, my office was less than a block from the Paramount theater in
downtown Oakland. Once a month there would be a huge naturalization ceremony
there as I was walking in to the office. That always did make me feel proud to
be "an American", seeing all the newly naturalized people and their families
crowding the area.

~~~
toby
That's where I was naturalized! I had mixed feelings about being required to
go to a ceremony even though all my paperwork was done, but in the end it was
really special.

On the way home I went to the Betabrand factory (which was on Cesar Chavez),
told them that I had just gotten naturalized and that I wanted to buy some of
their Stars and Stripes pants. They thought it was so cute that they created a
special discount code for people who have just become citizens.

Another fun thing was walking through the mission, which has a lot of
immigrants, people would see the envelope I was holding and yell
"congratulations" or even high-five me.

That night my friends took me to a baseball game. It was overall a lovely
induction.

~~~
endgame
Some things are too important to be mere paperwork, and need a ritual to mark
them. Graduating university is where this range begins, and taking on the
citizenship of another nation is definitely way above that.

~~~
toby
Having done it I completely agree with you. There were a lot of frustrating
hurdles over many years, but this was so much more than that and I'm really
happy for the final ritual.

~~~
AtHeartEngineer
This should really be a tradition that all natural born Americans should have
when they turn 18 also. I'm not necessarily about nationalism, that road can
go down some dark paths, but it is really comforting to know you are a part of
something bigger

------
flipactual
This is a horrific example of perseverance porn

These people were exploited which is terrible. That the nation that exploited
them was still more desirable to them than their former home is also terrible.
That all they got in return for being exploited was what they were initially
promised but decades later is terrible

Everything presented here is terrible

~~~
Godel_unicode
"Everything" is a bit uncharitable. There are people in that story who, when
they found out about a historic wrong, did something about it. That's not
terrible. There are people who are inspired by that act of doing the right
thing, and have gone on to be partisans for righting similar wrongs. That's
not terrible.

That it happened is terrible. Ignoring the good that was done so that we can
wallow in the bad is also terrible.

More than one thing can be true.

~~~
spiderfarmer
The ratio of good vs. bad is what is terrible. The USA is severely lacking
empathy.

~~~
Godel_unicode
The comment to which I am replying is a great example of that. When the bad
outweighs the good, it becomes particularly important to make note of the good
when it happens.

It's easy to just roll over and say everything is terrible. That's what
happened to the people in this story; nobody was willing to try and do the
right thing. Then, someone did. It's important to acknowledge the evil, but
it's also important to hold up the good and say "Do this. You can make a
difference."

Don't roll over and accept the evil as inevitable. It's not.

------
ketzu
This reminds me of stories over the last years(?) of afghan/iraqi translators
that worked for the US under the promise of citizenship that got massively
delayed at least (with immense risk to their lifes).

In general, the final granting of citizienship in this story seems mostly
symbolic, similar to the exoneration of Alan Turing, just that at least some
of the ill treated are still alive. It's good it happened and it should be
encouraged to make amends for past wrongdoings. But it needs to be accompanied
with a change in attitude. Otherwise, it's a hollow gesture, like a child
saying sorry after hitting someone, because it learned there won't be
consequences like that.

I think that's where peoples onlook on this differ. Is it a symbol of a nation
going forward, internalizing the values it claims to build upon - or a mostly
meaningless gesture in a system that hasn't really changed and would do it all
over again.

Personally (as an outsider perspectice), I feel the US is changing, but the
forces are pulling in many directions and it's slow. The current US seems to
pay lip service only to human rights but embraces it for propaganda, I hope it
works someday and the citiziens will hold its own country accountable to that.

~~~
zenpaul
Yes, This American Life did a great story on this.

"We’ve fought two wars since 9/11\. We got help from tens of thousands of
Iraqis and Afghans—some were targeted or killed because they helped us. We owe
these people. We’ve passed laws that say so. So why has it been so hard for us
to get many of them to safety?"

[https://www.thisamericanlife.org/607/didnt-we-solve-this-
one](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/607/didnt-we-solve-this-one)

------
hirundo
There seems to be more hatred for this country, from within, than ever before
in my life. This has been trending all day:

[https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FvckTheForth&src=trend_click](https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FvckTheForth&src=trend_click)

Yet I still love it more than not. That seems to make me an "other" to so many
of these people.

~~~
ncallaway
I love this country. But I hate this country.

I love the ideals that this nation was founded upon, but I hate that we've
never lived up to those ideals.

I love that we've moved over time to make this a more perfect union—to move
ever closer to those ideals; but I hate how slow this movement has been, and
how long it has taken.

I would fight and die for this country if I needed to defend it, but I also
want to spend most of my life fighting this nation to make it better.

Strong criticism of something doesn't mean that it's hated—it might mean that
it's loved, but very very imperfect. The best way to celebrate the 4th of
July—to me—is to reflect on the many ways that this union could be more
perfect, and to work on moving us in that direction.

~~~
tathougies
No sorry, people setting up autonomous zones proclaiming Americanism has
failed is hatred of country, not an attempt at reform.

~~~
ncallaway
Funny enough, I was part of the protests in Seattle that led up to the
autonomous zones.

Proclaiming Americanism failed to live up to its ideals isn't hatred. It's a
simple factual statement that's painfully obvious.

Harsh criticism is necessary to reform. You can't move towards that more
perfect union if we don't open our eyes to the problems of the systems.

If you reject all criticism out of hand as unpatriotic, then you cut off your
ability to make progress.

~~~
tathougies
Signs saying 'now leaving the USA' are not saying america has failed to live
up to its ideals. It's saying... we don't want to be part of America anymore.
That's fine, I'm not knocking you, but this is just revisionism.

I don't reject criticism as unpatriotic. I was made aware of no-knock warrants
from Ms Taylor's unfortunate death, and I am against them. I am in favor of
most police reform.

I am not in favor of the riots, CHOP, knocking down statues, or continued
protests drawing thousands of individuals during a time of pandemic.

~~~
systemvoltage
We now have 500 black militia marching with weapons in Georgia:
[https://amp.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hlciwl/a_bl...](https://amp.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hlciwl/a_black_group_named_black_panther_came_out_on_the/)

And people are supporting this. We should condemn all forms of violence from
both sides - white supremists and the people who counter them with more
violence.

It’s unbelievable how we allow this on our social media platforms and yet we
have a policy for inciting violence.

There is a race war going on and it’s terrifying. Forget social justice, we
are gonna have massacres.

~~~
tathougies
Well, I don't care if people march with weapons... that is their right. But if
they're demanding race-based preferences, abolition of government, etc, then I
have no problem calling them what they are -- extremists, not reformers.

------
tyingq
Sounds like the ceremony would have been roughly a year after the first gulf
war in 1991. Which also included a fair number of non-citizen US combatants. I
met a lot of them during my 8 year service.

It's not clear to me what advantage that path offers, but I can say there are
a lot of people that try it, specifically because they think it's an
accelerated path to citizenship.

~~~
brians
It was the only path for my family—illegal immigrants in the inter-war years
who served in WW2 for citizenship.

The US kept its promise to Europeans, even those not then considered white—but
broke its promise to Filipinos. We have a lot of growing to do.

~~~
barry-cotter
> The US kept its promise to Europeans, even those not then considered white

No Europeans were ever not considered white under US law. Blacks, Native
Americans and Asians have all been othered racially under US law. All
Europeans have always been considered white.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States)

~~~
IfOnlyYouKnew
The article isn’t quite as clear on that. Jews were classified as non-white at
least for a while and in the census. Italians also faced discrimination,
although not by law.

Then, obviously, there are British citizens ich Indian roots, and Belgians
born in Kongo. Not sure how they fit into this debate.

~~~
barry-cotter
No Jew or Italian was ever non-white under US law. Racism and religious and
ethnic prejudice was there in spades but

> No Europeans were ever not considered white under US law.

If you have any citations for Jews being considered non-white as opposed to
the bad kind of white like the Irish I’d be interested to see it.

~~~
IfOnlyYouKnew
That's what the linked wikipedia article says. ("for census purposes",
admittedly. But that's one aspect of law)

~~~
barry-cotter
The string “for census purposes” does not occur in the linked Wikipedia
article. The closest to anything saying Jews were regarded as non-white was
that they were

> further down the Caucasian pecking order, as Semites.

The obvious interpretation of that is that they weren’t the good kind of white
but bad white is still white. The Semitic kind of Caucasian.

------
YarickR2
Tearjerker, but in a positive way. I believe so much in this country and it's
ability to right what's wrong, eventually.

~~~
nxc18
Absolutely. I loved this article because it captured so much of what America
is about and should be about.

I hope we find it in ourselves to right our wrongs and stop the wrongs
actively being committed against Americans and aspiring Americans. We’re so
far from living up to our ideals, but it is hopeful to remember that we can
make progress and have made progress in the past.

------
ashton314
Thanks for posting this. It’s a tumultuous time, and I needed a reminder it is
possible for us as a nation to recover from the mistakes.

------
mahaganapati
Unfortunately still we have Guam, Puerto Rico and others that have given so
much but remain as not quite citizens

~~~
skybrian
They are fully citizens, but where they live isn't a state.

~~~
function_seven
Those born in American Samoa fit parent's comment. They're US nationals, but
not citizens.

Only a few months ago, a district judge ruled that they should be citizens,
but stayed his own order pending appeal. [0]

[0] [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/13/us/american-samoa-us-
citi...](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/13/us/american-samoa-us-
citizenship.html)

~~~
burlesona
This is interesting:

> The government of American Samoa has opposed automatic citizenship for its
> residents, arguing it would threaten the territory’s traditional cultural
> and religious practices.

I’m surprised the local government would prefer “non-citizen national” status.

~~~
zdragnar
There are reasons that places like American Samoa and Puerto Rico would not
want to become full states- losing a certain degree of autonomy among them (of
course, not all who live there feel this way).

Automatic full citizenship might be seen as a stepping stone down a slippery
slope towards statehood, at least by those who prefer their current status.

------
specialist
Nice story.

I've been trying to articulate a reason for hope during these chaotic times.
Forgive me:

About American Exceptionalism

As a proud citizen of the USA, I do think America is Exceptional.

Our struggle between reactionaries and progressives is done in public,
embarrassingly, in full view.

This struggle is done in the large, in the small, in every corner. It never
stops.

So, yes, please, criticize America. We've done so much wrong. But also praise.
Because we're also doing good, thru fits and starts, and many are trying to do
better.

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cafard
Great piece.

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redis_mlc
The article is written in a dramatic fashion, but lacks historical context.

The Philippines was liberated early from the Japanese at the request of
Douglas MacArthur. It was not a top military priority, and the planners wanted
to skip it, but President Roosevelt authorized the invasion as a symbolic and
political goal.

So millions of Filipinos got their freedom from the US. Yes, it was wrong to
delay citizenship for a few thousand Filipinos who fought, but in the overall
scheme, not that significant.

Until today, many Filipinos want US statehood.

And a lot of other Pacific island nations got their freedom back from the USA,
most notably Indonesia.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur)

------
adamsea
tl;dr “America good, me not want think about complicated stuff.”

~~~
IfOnlyYouKnew
This isn’t remotely accurate as a summary. Read some of te‘s other writing and
you’ll see he criticizes the US rather harshly, and isn’t afraid of any
complexity.

