

The Inverse Power of Praise (2007) - wengzilla
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

======
tokenadult
Should have (2007) in title, as this has been submitted here before, and by
now there ought to be some follow-up journalism on this issue, perhaps even
from the keyboard of the same author. (As a parent, I am continually revising
my opinions about parenting, and I hope the author is too.)

Among the several previous submissions,[1] the submission with the most
comments seems to come from a follow-up piece.[2] But the print-formatted
story with that submission doesn't seem to load properly, and a lot of the
comments look like they came from people who didn't read the story (as I
cannot read that story just now).

Carol Dweck[3] is one of the main researchers on attributional style and what
that does to motivation.

[1]
[https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=Praise...](https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=Praise+nymag.com&start=0)

[2]
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2237874](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2237874)

[3]
[http://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?articl...](http://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=32124)

~~~
chrisgd
Here is Dweck's book. Have heard great things about it, but still sitting in
my inbox.

[http://www.amazon.com/Mindset-The-New-Psychology-
Success/dp/...](http://www.amazon.com/Mindset-The-New-Psychology-
Success/dp/0345472322/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388675510&sr=8-1&keywords=carol+dweck)

~~~
Isamu
I found Mindset to be a good book. Here is my summary:

Two mindsets:

 _Fixed mindset_ \- talents, abilities and intelligence are fixed, endowed

 _Growth mindset_ \- talents, abilities and intelligence are learned and can
be developed

These mindsets are learned, and have fundamentally different reactions to
challenges.

The two-mindsets model is a simplification for the purposes of explanation.

 _Failure_

The growth mindset embraces failure as a necessary part of learning. In fact
failure is a indicator of an area for potential growth, if the opportunity is
taken to overcome that failure. The fixed mindset avoids and fears failure; it
is taken as evidence of a hard limit of your endowed talent.

 _Motivation_

The growth mindset sees effort as necessary to mastery. Almost any level of
mastery may be attainable with the right regimen of practice. Obstacles are a
normal part of mastery and must be overcome as a matter of course in order to
grow. Criticism is not taken personally, but used to indicate areas for
improvement and growth.

The fixed mindset sees effort as producing only small effects compared to
their fixed ability. May be more prone to give up in the face of obstacles
since it is thought that there is no new mastery to be gained. Criticism is
more likely to be taken personally, as the individual identifies with the
perceived limits of their ability and thinks that improvement is impossible
beyond a certain point.

 _Perceiving others_

The growth mindset is not threatened by others’ abilities. Others’ examples
may serve to inspire. The fixed mindset is more likely to be jealous of
others’ abilities since they are perceived to be highly desirable gifts and
the result of luck and circumstance.

 _Teaching Children_

Praise children by emphasizing their work and persistence. Do not use labels
like “smart” or “gifted” that would reinforce a mindset of fixed abilities.

 _Relationships_

Growth oriented mindset is more likely to be understanding and ready to learn
from experience. Fixed mindset sees problems as a result of unchangeable
personal attributes and are pessimistic about change. More likely to have
unrealistic expectations, like not having to work at a relationship that is
“meant to be”.

 _Examples_

Muhammad Ali, Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth and Wilma Rudolph are given as
examples of overcoming early setbacks with a growth mindset.

Last chapter is a “workshop” of situations and questions to help you develop a
growth mindset.

~~~
chrisgd
Wow, what a great summary. Thanks. Now I can move it back to the bottom of my
inbox. So long NY resolutions!

------
thebulge
I used to be this way, grew up being told I was smart, scored extremely high
on standardized tests with minimal effort... I viewed those who _had_ to work
extremely hard as lesser individuals, thinking that I could work as hard as
them at any time if I wanted to truly showcase my ability.

The truth is that actually putting in the time and effort when the time came
proved to be far more difficult than I had believed all along. It took
something that I wanted desperately to be good at, but couldn't just pick up
in a weekend to make me change my views. Programming was/is it for me. There's
more to learn than I could ever hope to understand and it has been a humbling
experience to say the least.

Everyone is an incomplete person in some way. I think my flaws are
characteristics inherent in my being that would have been that way had people
told me I was smart or not. I knew pretty early on that things came quickly to
me; the validation may have inflated my ego, but I don't know that it outright
caused me to run from challenges along the way. I did that on my own. Sigh.

~~~
icelancer
I had a similar experience, as I'm sure most people with above-average
intellect did. But you didn't do that on your own, that's blaming an immature
mind for quite the sin it cannot yet comprehend.

The important thing is that you internalized the lesson at some point in your
life. As have I. Many never do (just look at the entitled people who complain
about worsening conditions on reddit).

------
singold
This explains a lot to me, about my own life (anecdotal experience, I know...)

Since I can remember I am "Very Smart"[0], I was told that by my parents,
teachers, and lots of other adults.

In the first years of high school, I would get the best grades on math without
even studying, it was easy to me. But when the last years came, I needed to
put more effort on study, I didn't liked it, and also didn't get the results I
wanted.

Now I'm getting back to university, and it is really difficult to me to put
all the effort I need to study, it's like I don't want to.

This article resonated a lot with me, and helped me understand a posible cause
of what happens to me. Also, reading about how brain "exercise" helps
intelligence, motivated me to get to study a lot more now :)

[0] I think I really am smart (not that it makes me better than anyone though)
but I don't know how much, or how to measure that, if that's really and
objectively possible.

------
perlgeek
While praising children for the right thing is important, I don't think that
the emphasis should be on praise.

It is much more important that parents make a conscious effort to see the
children, try to gauge their emotions, and reflect that in words.

In the book "Your Competent Child" (I can highly recommend that to all
parents), Jesper Juul gives an example. A child manages to climb up the back
side of a slide, and then calls "look, ma!". Now many parents have the urge to
say "Wow, you did that really well", and thus give a reward for the child's
hard work.

But climbing up was fun (even if it was also hard work), and by giving a
reward we teach the child to crave the reward, not the fun. Instead, one could
just say "Yes, I'm looking", or trying to understand the child better, say
"Yes, I'm looking. Did you have fun climbing up? And now maybe you're just a
tiny bit scared sliding down?".

By simply observing the children, and making it clear that we do, we give
value to children themselves, not their intelligence, and not their effort
either. IMHO that's a much higher goal.

If at some point their motivation fails, they still feel they have value.

Once again, for anybody who wants to take children seriously, I highly
recommend to read Jesper Juul's books. They were a real eye-opener to me.

~~~
dclowd9901
> "Yes, I'm looking. Did you have fun climbing up? And now maybe you're just a
> tiny bit scared sliding down?"

Your point notwithstanding, imagining someone actually saying this made me
wince with embarrassment. How idiotically contrived.

~~~
scott_s
Why did it make you wince with embarrassment? From spending time with my
nephews and friend's daughters, I know it's reasonable. I probably would have
phrased it, "I see! Did you have fun climbing up? Do you want to slide down?"
I probably wouldn't use the word "scared" unless I thought they actually
looked scared.

~~~
dclowd9901
I imagined standing next to a proverbial armchair-child-psychologist saying
this to their child, and then looking over at them with a disgusted look on my
face at the amount of shallow over-understanding it implied.

If it was only a bit funnier, it would be a line for a skit about hippie
parents on a sketch comedy show.

------
11thEarlOfMar
One of my several life principles is that the only real sin one can commit is
not utilizing the full potential of the resources one was granted. Squandering
a gift or privilege or resource is the only true failure in life, whether it
is an inheritance or simply time. This notion is difficult to engender in a
world of standardized tests and public education, where, the same bars are set
at the same height for all students. If clearing a 5' high bar earns an A,
what is the reward for clearing 6'? This implies a homogeneous intelligence
that does not exist, and the output is akin to the blandness of mass-produced
foods. Yes, honors and advanced placement courses and special education are
injected into the curriculum, but do not adequately address the greatly varied
minds that pass through. Internet education has the opportunity to 'mass-
customize' education and tailor the challenge of learning to individual minds.
I see this as greatly promising. There are many efforts from Khan Academy to
open lecture series' sponsored by top schools. But in my community, the
learning behavior of high school students is primarily aligned with entrance
to a top university, a conforming effect (one very high bar for all) that
moves in the opposite direction to the point that learning has far more to do
with disappointment than achievement. So where do we stand? Can in-person plus
Internet education be mass-customized on a public school scale to better
effect and if so, what is the path?

~~~
cema

      the only real sin [...] the only true failure
    

Failure is not a sin. There may be plenty of reasons why a person chose (or
had to take) a different path.

~~~
11thEarlOfMar
I should put a little more meat on it. The point is in the daily choices that
people make for themselves. If one 'had to take' a particular path, that
implies the choice was not theirs to make, and that is perfectly
understandable.

In the end, it has to be left to the individual to determine whether they are
making the most of what they have, so for me, it is a guiding principle to use
in self-reflection, rather than a score card to be judged by.

------
codegeek
Overall a well written article with some solid points and data . However, to
my understanding, the article claims that if we praise our kids for their
smartness, we are implicitly teaching them not to value hard work and efforts.

It even goes that far by claiming "Giving kids the label of “smart” does not
prevent them from underperforming. It might actually be causing it."

Human beings are complicated. Talk about kids; it complicates the situation
further. I am a father and I believe in praising with the right attitude. That
attitude is "Yes you are good but you are still like many others. Keep going
and you are doing a great job". I will go as far as to say that if your kids
are under performing even though they are smart, it has nothing to do with
your praising but more to do with overall values that are being taught to them
by the parents. So go ahead, praise away _but_ teach them the right values by
example.

~~~
wengzilla
I don't think the article necessarily says NOT to praise your children. It
just says to praise them for specific things in their own control (e.g., hard
work or listening to instructions) rather than praising them for things out of
their control (e.g., being smart).

------
RankingMember
I want to note as someone who was the "victim" of over-praise that I don't
think it would've been such a problem if not for the fact that so much of the
praise was done without a clear impetus (e.g. a large amount of effort
expended on a project). It got to the point that it was basically background
noise that made my mindset "well, if my baseline mode is apparently 'smart as
hell' when I'm not trying at all, why try?".

It's like you've hiked 1/10 of the way up a mountain and there's someone
insistently blocking your view of the peak and saying "oh my god look at how
far you've come you are awesome!"

------
visarga
If you know about nonviolent communication (NVC) - they say that most praise
are violent speech because it doesn't come without strings attached - but
rather are a form of subtle manipulation to make the kid perform as the
parents desire.

Instead of saying "You're so smart!" or "You're so hard working!" \- which is
attaching a label to the kid, they should focus inside an tell how the action
of the kid made them feel: "You made me feel very happy because you completed
your work."

That doesn't say anything about _how_ the kid is, instead it says how the
parent feels, thus, allowing the kid to feel more free and understand _why_ he
is being appreciated. With regard to giving praise, I think NVC is quite
insightful.

~~~
300bps
_they say that most praise are violent speech_

I think any system that twists words so ridiculously to make a point is highly
suspect.

It is ridiculous to claim that praising someone can be accurately described as
"violent speech". It holds as much hyperbole as saying you were "raped" at the
grocery store because Apples were $2 each.

------
mjp94
As someone who's received praise on being smart as a child, I don't think it's
necessarily all that bad, depending on the mindset the child already has. If
they already realize that working hard will lead to them doing better in
school, then it probably won't have as debilitating as an effect.

~~~
delinka
But when adults (not only parents, but other family, even strangers) recognize
and praise "smartness" long before the child can understand that hard work is
involved? I'd say this is the problem. And it seems to be so for praise of
most any attribute: praise a child constantly for their looks and they seem to
have similar self-confidence problems later in life as well.

~~~
mjp94
That's true, but they may also be praising "smartness" before the child knows
what that is either. However, given how schools work, it's pretty unlikely
that someone will realize what it means to be considered smart after they've
realized the value of hard work.

------
asiekierka
I know that feeling. I'm still struggling with it and it has kept me confined
to very few things for ages.

------
shawndumas
one page version
[http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/#print](http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/#print)

------
JazCE
wait what... cursive penmanship is a thing? i thought it was just a joke from
cartoons.

~~~
RankingMember
In what year were you born? I've heard there was a cut-off at some point in
the late 90s where they stopped teaching it. Whenever it was, it was after I
was in school. ;)

~~~
rsl7
Still taught in montessori schools as a tool for the development of fine motor
control. Education in Montessori is literally hands-on for everything, as they
feel the hand is the instrument of human intelligence. So for them it's like
practicing a musical instrument or learning to draw.

But it appears also that kids who were taught cursive express more complex
ideas in their writing later on - [http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/memory-
medic/201303/what...](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/memory-
medic/201303/what-learning-cursive-does-your-brain)

~~~
RankingMember
Previous to your comment, my experience with Montessori schools was limited to
hearing of people sending their kids to them. Now I wish I'd gone to one. :)

